{"total":{"value":162,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-11-13"],"total_page":2,"ivods":[{"id":"16259","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16259","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d161a8535b05d3ed3ad9f551ce5fa921fedb79b8bfb08e79988aed5e44523ff675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:30:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:23:00+08:00","duration":13965,"影片長度":"03:52:45","委員發言時間":"08:30:15 - 12:23:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1859.3015937500002,"end":1862.4572187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1867.3678437500002,"end":1871.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1872.9534687500002,"end":1883.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1884.0740937500002,"end":1885.7784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1885.9472187500003,"end":1887.7697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1888.0228437500002,"end":1889.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1890.3178437500003,"end":1891.6847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1891.88721875,"end":1894.7559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1895.12721875,"end":1897.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1897.5740937500002,"end":1899.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1899.5315937500002,"end":1906.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1906.7203437500002,"end":1909.4034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1909.5215937500002,"end":1911.8165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1912.0697187500002,"end":1916.1534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1916.5247187500001,"end":1917.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1917.89159375,"end":1922.3803437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1922.66721875,"end":1925.5697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1926.1603437500003,"end":1933.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1934.0409687500003,"end":1937.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1938.1922187500002,"end":1942.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1942.5628437500002,"end":1944.4190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1944.8072187500002,"end":1949.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1952.19846875,"end":1957.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1958.8978437500002,"end":1962.6609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1965.2259687500002,"end":1971.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1971.5540937500002,"end":1974.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1974.0853437500002,"end":1983.5353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1983.8897187500002,"end":1987.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":1987.2647187500002,"end":1992.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1998.1153437500002,"end":2001.9628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2005.08471875,"end":2006.4347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2008.4090937500002,"end":2009.3878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2011.1934687500002,"end":2012.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2013.23534375,"end":2014.5853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2016.6778437500002,"end":2018.9559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2021.1497187500001,"end":2022.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2025.2503437500002,"end":2026.9547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2028.9122187500002,"end":2031.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2033.3672187500001,"end":2034.5990937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2035.5440937500002,"end":2036.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2038.4803437500002,"end":2040.9272187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2043.0703437500001,"end":2044.8422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2046.4622187500001,"end":2047.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2049.73596875,"end":2051.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2053.14471875,"end":2054.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2055.1697187500004,"end":2057.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2060.21534375,"end":2061.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2064.06284375,"end":2064.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2065.49721875,"end":2065.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2066.2059687500005,"end":2067.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2068.0790937500005,"end":2069.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2070.1209687500004,"end":2072.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2075.16659375,"end":2077.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2079.72284375,"end":2081.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2082.99659375,"end":2085.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2086.79346875,"end":2087.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2088.5147187500006,"end":2095.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2097.5428437500004,"end":2099.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2102.03159375,"end":2103.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2105.5584687500004,"end":2107.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2109.38909375,"end":2111.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2113.67534375,"end":2116.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2117.4890937500004,"end":2120.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2122.83846875,"end":2125.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2128.1540937500004,"end":2131.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2132.99721875,"end":2135.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2137.5703437500006,"end":2138.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2140.67534375,"end":2142.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2143.86471875,"end":2145.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2147.5603437500004,"end":2150.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2152.58909375,"end":2154.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2156.2340937500003,"end":2159.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2160.7059687500005,"end":2163.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2165.73471875,"end":2167.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2169.36284375,"end":2171.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2172.60284375,"end":2174.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2176.83846875,"end":2179.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2182.3903437500003,"end":2184.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2185.6640937500006,"end":2191.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2193.64596875,"end":2200.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2200.6490937500002,"end":2202.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2202.2859687500004,"end":2205.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2205.5934687500003,"end":2207.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2207.44971875,"end":2225.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2225.4215937500003,"end":2242.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2242.9209687500006,"end":2249.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2250.3122187500003,"end":2274.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2275.2703437500004,"end":2310.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2311.0790937500005,"end":2317.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2317.8122187500003,"end":2318.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2319.6347187500005,"end":2345.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2345.70659375,"end":2346.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2347.1072187500004,"end":2353.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2361.97409375,"end":2365.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2366.66534375,"end":2378.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2378.6972187500005,"end":2379.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2379.9122187500006,"end":2392.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2393.05784375,"end":2410.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2399.1159687500003,"end":2399.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2410.97909375,"end":2424.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2425.42409375,"end":2426.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2426.8415937500004,"end":2433.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2434.3847187500005,"end":2436.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2439.16034375,"end":2448.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2461.3172187500004,"end":2461.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2462.43096875,"end":2463.2578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2464.8272187500006,"end":2468.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2469.3328437500004,"end":2472.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2472.8428437500006,"end":2475.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2475.57659375,"end":2478.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2479.35659375,"end":2482.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2483.3897187500006,"end":2488.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2489.9540937500005,"end":2502.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2505.3103437500004,"end":2507.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2508.7528437500005,"end":2511.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2513.3259687500004,"end":2525.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2525.9990937500006,"end":2531.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2532.05721875,"end":2544.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2544.59534375,"end":2552.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2552.83034375,"end":2554.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2555.0240937500002,"end":2556.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2556.88034375,"end":2559.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2559.27659375,"end":2560.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2561.47034375,"end":2564.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2564.96346875,"end":2566.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2567.4609687500006,"end":2568.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2569.06409375,"end":2570.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2571.29159375,"end":2572.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2572.42221875,"end":2573.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2573.87346875,"end":2576.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2577.29909375,"end":2579.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2580.25221875,"end":2582.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2582.91846875,"end":2584.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2585.19659375,"end":2600.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2601.3797187500004,"end":2603.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2603.87721875,"end":2605.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2606.3747187500003,"end":2608.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2609.12534375,"end":2614.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2614.6940937500003,"end":2615.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2615.7234687500004,"end":2618.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2618.5584687500004,"end":2620.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2620.3809687500006,"end":2628.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2628.6328437500006,"end":2633.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2634.1678437500004,"end":2637.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2638.11659375,"end":2640.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2640.64784375,"end":2643.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2644.14096875,"end":2647.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2647.56659375,"end":2652.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2652.83159375,"end":2653.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2654.1140937500004,"end":2659.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2660.3747187500003,"end":2661.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2662.1803437500002,"end":2663.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2665.30221875,"end":2676.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2677.3678437500002,"end":2680.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2680.7597187500005,"end":2688.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2689.0115937500004,"end":2691.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2692.5215937500006,"end":2696.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2696.5547187500006,"end":2703.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2703.5915937500004,"end":2704.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2704.82346875,"end":2708.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2708.9747187500006,"end":2720.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2720.8884687500004,"end":2726.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2727.1490937500002,"end":2739.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2740.68284375,"end":2743.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2743.9059687500003,"end":2754.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2754.5878437500005,"end":2757.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2757.4903437500006,"end":2759.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2759.4815937500007,"end":2761.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2761.6415937500005,"end":2764.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2765.35409375,"end":2767.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2768.52659375,"end":2777.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2777.68971875,"end":2781.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2781.8915937500005,"end":2790.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2791.07159375,"end":2799.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2799.7284687500005,"end":2802.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2802.9178437500004,"end":2810.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2810.5790937500005,"end":2815.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2816.21534375,"end":2818.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2819.3709687500004,"end":2823.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2823.97784375,"end":2828.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2829.04034375,"end":2831.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2832.0947187500005,"end":2836.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2836.95471875,"end":2837.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2837.7647187500006,"end":2843.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2844.46409375,"end":2850.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2850.97784375,"end":2853.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2853.4247187500005,"end":2858.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2859.5165937500005,"end":2862.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2862.97596875,"end":2866.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2866.5534687500003,"end":2883.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2883.59721875,"end":2892.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2893.41846875,"end":2898.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2899.3584687500006,"end":2903.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2903.83034375,"end":2907.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2907.4753437500003,"end":2912.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2912.5378437500003,"end":2913.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2914.39409375,"end":2920.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2920.6715937500003,"end":2921.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2922.3590937500003,"end":2929.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2929.6659687500005,"end":2930.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2931.2184687500003,"end":2933.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2933.5303437500006,"end":2938.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2939.3522187500002,"end":2943.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2944.6172187500006,"end":2956.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2957.5097187500005,"end":2962.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2962.7409687500003,"end":2964.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2965.12034375,"end":2975.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2977.43909375,"end":2978.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2979.66659375,"end":2984.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2984.8134687500005,"end":2985.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2986.3659687500003,"end":2994.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2994.1453437500004,"end":2999.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2999.8153437500005,"end":3005.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3006.3290937500005,"end":3007.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3008.3878437500007,"end":3016.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3016.9772187500002,"end":3022.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3023.6765937500004,"end":3034.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3034.25721875,"end":3034.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3034.9659687500007,"end":3035.9109687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3036.13034375,"end":3039.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3039.99471875,"end":3040.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3040.9734687500004,"end":3044.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3045.1415937500005,"end":3054.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3055.77284375,"end":3068.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3068.5303437500006,"end":3073.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3073.4578437500004,"end":3075.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3075.8034687500003,"end":3079.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3080.1403437500003,"end":3082.4353437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3082.72221875,"end":3092.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3094.4503437500007,"end":3095.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3095.4628437500005,"end":3100.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3101.68971875,"end":3106.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3107.0390937500006,"end":3108.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3108.3047187500006,"end":3121.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3121.9228437500005,"end":3126.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3127.1540937500004,"end":3127.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3128.63909375,"end":3137.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3138.4940937500005,"end":3141.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3142.1559687500003,"end":3151.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3152.4834687500006,"end":3169.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3169.61159375,"end":3173.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3173.7459687500004,"end":3180.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3181.3565937500007,"end":3181.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3183.1453437500004,"end":3184.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3184.6472187500003,"end":3186.8409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3187.0603437500004,"end":3202.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3202.41659375,"end":3211.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3216.43971875,"end":3220.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3225.41721875,"end":3229.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3229.82159375,"end":3234.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3234.6647187500002,"end":3240.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3240.3515937500006,"end":3248.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3248.6034687500005,"end":3257.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3257.3278437500003,"end":3258.3740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3258.7284687500005,"end":3260.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3261.0065937500003,"end":3263.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3263.63909375,"end":3267.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3268.04346875,"end":3276.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3277.56096875,"end":3289.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3290.3522187500002,"end":3296.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3297.64221875,"end":3298.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3299.6503437500005,"end":3300.8653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3301.1690937500007,"end":3304.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3305.10096875,"end":3306.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3306.5859687500006,"end":3308.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3309.03284375,"end":3315.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3315.8165937500007,"end":3321.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3322.76909375,"end":3323.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3323.71409375,"end":3324.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3324.7265937500006,"end":3334.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3334.4972187500007,"end":3338.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3338.5303437500006,"end":3340.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3341.0615937500006,"end":3346.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3346.74846875,"end":3351.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3351.7097187500003,"end":3358.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3359.5059687500006,"end":3360.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3361.27784375,"end":3368.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3368.6690937500007,"end":3372.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3373.51221875,"end":3375.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3375.5709687500002,"end":3384.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3384.12659375,"end":3390.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3390.8428437500006,"end":3391.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3392.3447187500005,"end":3393.4922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3393.9140937500006,"end":3399.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3400.1240937500006,"end":3401.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3402.3009687500007,"end":3404.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3404.4609687500006,"end":3408.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3409.7090937500006,"end":3416.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3418.58534375,"end":3428.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3428.9128437500003,"end":3434.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3434.32971875,"end":3437.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3438.6159687500003,"end":3446.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3446.96909375,"end":3449.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3450.90096875,"end":3468.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3469.0584687500004,"end":3470.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3470.8640937500004,"end":3471.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3472.63596875,"end":3474.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3474.2897187500002,"end":3478.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3479.03159375,"end":3482.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3483.2840937500005,"end":3486.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3487.1315937500003,"end":3487.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3488.19471875,"end":3490.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3490.96221875,"end":3497.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3497.8809687500006,"end":3502.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3502.5722187500005,"end":3503.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3504.0234687500006,"end":3505.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3505.37346875,"end":3519.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3520.9659687500007,"end":3542.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3543.6628437500003,"end":3545.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3545.3672187500006,"end":3547.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3548.0672187500004,"end":3549.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3549.90659375,"end":3556.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3559.2890937500006,"end":3568.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3569.6503437500005,"end":3578.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3579.85971875,"end":3587.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3588.22971875,"end":3588.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3589.4109687500004,"end":3590.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3591.48659375,"end":3601.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3602.0165937500005,"end":3604.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3605.30721875,"end":3611.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3612.1922187500004,"end":3616.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3623.54909375,"end":3630.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3630.6872187500003,"end":3639.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3639.4453437500006,"end":3641.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3642.29721875,"end":3646.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3647.17409375,"end":3652.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3653.0634687500005,"end":3658.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3658.75034375,"end":3663.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3664.1334687500002,"end":3667.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3668.03159375,"end":3672.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3672.67221875,"end":3674.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3674.71409375,"end":3676.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3676.77284375,"end":3679.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3679.5909687500007,"end":3684.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3685.56471875,"end":3688.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3688.3659687500003,"end":3692.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3692.6690937500007,"end":3695.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3695.6053437500004,"end":3698.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3698.7947187500004,"end":3705.9159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3706.1690937500007,"end":3709.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3711.9909687500003,"end":3712.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3712.5984687500004,"end":3714.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3714.37034375,"end":3715.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3716.0409687500005,"end":3719.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3719.5847187500003,"end":3723.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3723.8709687500004,"end":3727.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3728.35971875,"end":3728.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3728.9503437500007,"end":3730.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3730.95846875,"end":3734.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3734.51909375,"end":3738.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3738.90659375,"end":3743.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3743.5809687500005,"end":3746.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3746.4665937500004,"end":3748.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3748.5253437500005,"end":3749.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3749.3015937500004,"end":3754.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3755.2753437500005,"end":3760.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3761.5865937500002,"end":3762.0422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3762.2615937500004,"end":3763.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3763.7297187500008,"end":3767.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3768.0665937500007,"end":3774.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3774.88409375,"end":3776.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3777.4490937500004,"end":3777.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3778.1747187500005,"end":3779.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3779.3897187500006,"end":3781.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3781.8703437500008,"end":3785.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3786.2409687500003,"end":3787.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3787.6415937500005,"end":3789.0422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3789.71721875,"end":3791.9953437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3792.2147187500004,"end":3793.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3793.4972187500007,"end":3795.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3795.7584687500002,"end":3807.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3807.80721875,"end":3814.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3819.8053437500002,"end":3825.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3825.03659375,"end":3825.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3825.10409375,"end":3834.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3835.0265937500008,"end":3844.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3845.3203437500006,"end":3851.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3851.9353437500004,"end":3857.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3858.2634687500004,"end":3863.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3863.78159375,"end":3869.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3870.17721875,"end":3877.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3877.72034375,"end":3887.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3887.3222187500005,"end":3900.4172187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3900.90659375,"end":3902.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3903.2184687500003,"end":3916.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3917.1065937500007,"end":3920.6672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3921.8990937500002,"end":3926.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3926.8097187500007,"end":3937.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3938.16659375,"end":3941.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3942.48659375,"end":3943.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3943.8365937500002,"end":3947.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3948.3084687500004,"end":3952.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3953.03346875,"end":3956.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3956.9315937500005,"end":3959.9015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3960.3572187500004,"end":3964.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3965.1834687500004,"end":3967.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3967.8328437500004,"end":3972.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3973.3340937500006,"end":3975.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3976.1522187500004,"end":3978.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3979.44284375,"end":3981.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3981.3328437500004,"end":3989.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3989.8547187500008,"end":3991.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3991.9472187500005,"end":3996.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3997.3640937500004,"end":4002.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4002.71346875,"end":4005.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4005.4978437500004,"end":4007.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4008.55221875,"end":4010.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4010.35784375,"end":4019.7403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4020.6347187500005,"end":4035.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4036.2272187500002,"end":4038.3703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4038.85971875,"end":4070.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4071.59721875,"end":4075.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4075.57971875,"end":4088.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4088.9615937500002,"end":4092.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4093.5515937500004,"end":4102.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4103.794718749999,"end":4112.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4112.7215937500005,"end":4118.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4118.86409375,"end":4119.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4119.505343750001,"end":4132.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4133.07284375,"end":4134.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4135.013468749999,"end":4136.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4136.430968750001,"end":4139.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4139.63721875,"end":4143.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4144.159718749999,"end":4147.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4148.3447187500005,"end":4155.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4155.58409375,"end":4163.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4163.22846875,"end":4166.940968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4167.00846875,"end":4200.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4201.60221875,"end":4212.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4212.62159375,"end":4213.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4214.477843750001,"end":4219.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4224.923468749999,"end":4234.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4234.6434687500005,"end":4244.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4244.54909375,"end":4246.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4246.624718749999,"end":4258.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4259.331593749999,"end":4264.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4264.343468749999,"end":4269.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4270.18221875,"end":4271.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4272.02159375,"end":4274.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4275.02534375,"end":4277.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4277.53971875,"end":4281.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4281.606593750001,"end":4283.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4283.83409375,"end":4289.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4289.807843750001,"end":4291.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4291.93409375,"end":4295.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4296.085343750001,"end":4298.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4299.05534375,"end":4305.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4306.09221875,"end":4306.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4306.817843750001,"end":4317.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4318.208468750001,"end":4320.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4320.2840937500005,"end":4322.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4323.38909375,"end":4329.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4329.53159375,"end":4337.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4338.1884687500005,"end":4339.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4339.47096875,"end":4341.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4341.968468749999,"end":4343.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4343.470343749999,"end":4351.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4352.144093749999,"end":4359.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4359.315968749999,"end":4360.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4360.5478437500005,"end":4365.222218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4365.593468749999,"end":4369.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4369.575968749999,"end":4369.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4370.4872187500005,"end":4372.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4373.102843750001,"end":4374.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4374.99284375,"end":4376.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4376.8153437500005,"end":4381.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4382.11409375,"end":4384.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4385.337218750001,"end":4387.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4388.239718750001,"end":4390.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4390.8553437499995,"end":4393.487843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4393.622843749999,"end":4393.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4394.36534375,"end":4396.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4397.16659375,"end":4404.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4405.030343750001,"end":4416.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4416.57284375,"end":4417.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4417.669718749999,"end":4419.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4419.593468749999,"end":4422.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4422.833468750001,"end":4423.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4423.74471875,"end":4424.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4424.807843750001,"end":4427.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4428.0478437500005,"end":4431.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4431.642218749999,"end":4435.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4435.55721875,"end":4436.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4436.856593750001,"end":4437.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4437.76784375,"end":4438.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4439.87721875,"end":4440.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4440.788468750001,"end":4444.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4444.88909375,"end":4448.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4448.382218750001,"end":4450.862843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4451.284718749999,"end":4454.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4454.811593750001,"end":4458.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4458.929093750001,"end":4463.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4464.00846875,"end":4467.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4468.24409375,"end":4476.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4477.120343750001,"end":4477.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4477.69409375,"end":4478.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4478.892218749999,"end":4480.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4482.35159375,"end":4484.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4485.15284375,"end":4490.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4490.670968750001,"end":4496.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4497.134093750001,"end":4500.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4500.67784375,"end":4502.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4502.939093749999,"end":4512.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4513.33409375,"end":4514.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4514.12721875,"end":4518.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4518.90284375,"end":4522.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4523.02034375,"end":4523.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4523.7459687499995,"end":4534.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4534.98471875,"end":4537.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4538.44409375,"end":4538.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4539.186593750001,"end":4540.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4540.587218750001,"end":4550.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4550.610968749999,"end":4551.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4551.77534375,"end":4559.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4560.077843749999,"end":4562.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4562.5584687499995,"end":4565.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4565.984093749999,"end":4571.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4572.126593749999,"end":4572.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4573.307843750001,"end":4573.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4573.864718750001,"end":4573.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4575.16409375,"end":4578.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4578.825968749999,"end":4590.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4591.3134687500005,"end":4592.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4592.88284375,"end":4596.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4596.325343750001,"end":4627.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4629.90659375,"end":4633.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4630.27784375,"end":4630.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4630.530968749999,"end":4631.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4631.02034375,"end":4631.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4631.475968750001,"end":4631.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4631.577218750001,"end":4632.269093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4633.97346875,"end":4636.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4634.02409375,"end":4635.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5771.9559687500005,"end":5779.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5788.071593750001,"end":5789.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5788.51034375,"end":5789.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5789.91096875,"end":5790.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5799.782843749999,"end":5800.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5801.385968750001,"end":5819.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5819.155343750001,"end":5842.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5843.3709687499995,"end":5916.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5917.874093750001,"end":5958.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5925.19784375,"end":5925.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5958.52596875,"end":5965.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5965.815968750001,"end":5995.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5987.5340937500005,"end":5987.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5995.718468749999,"end":6040.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6041.702843749999,"end":6092.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6092.3447187500005,"end":6092.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6092.378468750001,"end":6129.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6101.946593750001,"end":6102.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6102.0478437500005,"end":6102.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6102.2840937500005,"end":6102.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6130.60034375,"end":6173.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6173.96909375,"end":6174.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6174.8465937500005,"end":6176.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6177.39471875,"end":6181.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6181.90034375,"end":6182.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6182.32221875,"end":6185.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6185.64659375,"end":6187.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6185.68034375,"end":6187.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6187.65471875,"end":6190.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6188.92034375,"end":6189.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6190.79346875,"end":6208.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6192.05909375,"end":6192.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6192.53159375,"end":6193.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6200.44596875,"end":6200.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6200.81721875,"end":6200.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6208.05659375,"end":6211.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6210.43596875,"end":6215.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6215.58284375,"end":6246.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6247.122218750001,"end":6247.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6247.13909375,"end":6247.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6247.155968749999,"end":6247.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6247.1728437500005,"end":6254.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6247.18971875,"end":6247.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6254.108468750001,"end":6266.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6254.5809687500005,"end":6254.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6266.376593750001,"end":6272.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6272.31659375,"end":6287.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6275.894093750001,"end":6276.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6276.95721875,"end":6277.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6280.298468750001,"end":6280.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6287.1834687499995,"end":6294.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6294.11909375,"end":6296.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6297.3759687500005,"end":6300.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6331.9022187499995,"end":6334.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6334.247843749999,"end":6334.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6334.33221875,"end":6335.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6342.16221875,"end":6343.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6342.8709687499995,"end":6346.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6347.0897187499995,"end":6349.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6350.515343749999,"end":6351.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6352.18596875,"end":6353.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6354.092843750001,"end":6362.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6362.78346875,"end":6364.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6365.280968749999,"end":6367.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6368.08221875,"end":6370.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6370.88346875,"end":6372.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6373.212218750001,"end":6374.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6375.01784375,"end":6376.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6377.009093750001,"end":6377.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6378.645968750001,"end":6385.345343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6385.98659375,"end":6390.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6390.9647187499995,"end":6393.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6393.9853437500005,"end":6395.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6396.21284375,"end":6397.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6397.74846875,"end":6399.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6399.19971875,"end":6400.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6402.135968750001,"end":6402.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6403.874093750001,"end":6412.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6412.682843750001,"end":6437.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6437.286593750001,"end":6443.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6443.850968750001,"end":6456.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6457.31721875,"end":6469.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6470.378468750001,"end":6474.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6475.154093749999,"end":6476.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6476.79096875,"end":6481.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6482.1572187500005,"end":6496.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6497.479718750001,"end":6499.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6500.095343750001,"end":6512.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6513.139718750001,"end":6521.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6522.11721875,"end":6523.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6523.7372187500005,"end":6527.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6528.00659375,"end":6543.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6544.358468750001,"end":6555.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6556.32284375,"end":6573.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6574.22721875,"end":6577.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6578.327843749999,"end":6580.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6581.12909375,"end":6595.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6595.65846875,"end":6606.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6606.89721875,"end":6609.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6609.884093750001,"end":6619.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6620.093468749999,"end":6624.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6624.90284375,"end":6629.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6630.269093750001,"end":6671.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6673.60409375,"end":6681.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6682.00784375,"end":6682.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6682.952843749999,"end":6700.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6701.279093749999,"end":6702.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6701.81909375,"end":6702.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6704.856593750001,"end":6707.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6707.77596875,"end":6712.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6728.36346875,"end":6730.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6730.540343750001,"end":6731.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6738.184718750001,"end":6739.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6739.18034375,"end":6739.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6740.41221875,"end":6744.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6744.512843750001,"end":6747.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6748.09034375,"end":6764.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6765.43784375,"end":6787.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6787.42596875,"end":6789.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6789.974093750001,"end":6802.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6803.4403437500005,"end":6814.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6815.3709687499995,"end":6815.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6816.67034375,"end":6828.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6828.48284375,"end":6828.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6829.7147187499995,"end":6829.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6829.967843750001,"end":6832.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6833.055968750001,"end":6851.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6851.044718749999,"end":6851.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6851.07846875,"end":6851.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6851.432843750001,"end":6852.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6852.02346875,"end":6853.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6853.71096875,"end":6863.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6857.54159375,"end":6857.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6857.5584687499995,"end":6860.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6863.515343749999,"end":6863.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6863.97096875,"end":6880.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6880.997843749999,"end":6883.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6884.187218749999,"end":6889.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6890.144093750001,"end":6890.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6891.49409375,"end":6892.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6892.69221875,"end":6896.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6897.5184687500005,"end":6899.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6899.45909375,"end":6905.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6905.97284375,"end":6907.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6907.32284375,"end":6909.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6909.786593750001,"end":6910.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6910.84971875,"end":6913.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6913.75221875,"end":6925.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6925.311593750001,"end":6926.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6927.454718750001,"end":6928.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6929.057843750001,"end":6989.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6989.63909375,"end":6989.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6990.3309687500005,"end":6992.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6992.27159375,"end":6995.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6995.88284375,"end":7000.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7000.60784375,"end":7012.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7012.673468750001,"end":7014.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7014.66471875,"end":7015.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7015.862843750001,"end":7017.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7018.1747187500005,"end":7018.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7019.339093750001,"end":7022.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7022.69721875,"end":7026.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7027.439093750001,"end":7028.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7029.3290937500005,"end":7029.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7031.53971875,"end":7035.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7036.18034375,"end":7037.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7037.243468750001,"end":7074.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7074.94221875,"end":7076.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7077.15284375,"end":7079.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7079.54909375,"end":7082.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7082.26596875,"end":7086.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7086.2822187500005,"end":7088.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7088.560343749999,"end":7088.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7089.38721875,"end":7098.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7098.82034375,"end":7110.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7111.03784375,"end":7112.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7113.33284375,"end":7126.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7126.32659375,"end":7126.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7127.8622187500005,"end":7235.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7235.423468750001,"end":7238.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7238.528468750001,"end":7246.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7246.79721875,"end":7254.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7254.323468750001,"end":7268.329718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7268.700968749999,"end":7289.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7290.33471875,"end":7320.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7320.3553437499995,"end":7329.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7320.67596875,"end":7320.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7329.029093749999,"end":7333.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7337.77034375,"end":7341.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7353.312218750001,"end":7354.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7355.4384687500005,"end":7356.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7363.15034375,"end":7380.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7380.90284375,"end":7396.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7397.102843750001,"end":7403.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7403.380343750001,"end":7406.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7406.63721875,"end":7421.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7421.31846875,"end":7422.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7422.921593750001,"end":7424.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7424.895968750001,"end":7425.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7425.7059687500005,"end":7426.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7426.04346875,"end":7432.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7432.32096875,"end":7434.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7434.548468750001,"end":7436.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7436.2528437500005,"end":7441.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7440.690968750001,"end":7446.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7441.770968750001,"end":7442.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7447.204718750001,"end":7448.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7448.50409375,"end":7460.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7460.333468750001,"end":7463.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7464.839093750001,"end":7472.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7472.669093750001,"end":7475.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7476.314093750001,"end":7476.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7477.022843750001,"end":7483.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7484.31284375,"end":7497.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7498.33596875,"end":7503.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7503.14534375,"end":7505.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7503.837218750001,"end":7504.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7505.575343750001,"end":7507.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7507.3134687500005,"end":7518.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7518.653468750001,"end":7554.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7528.27221875,"end":7528.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7528.8290937500005,"end":7528.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7553.466593749999,"end":7572.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7557.263468749999,"end":7557.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7562.73096875,"end":7563.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7572.923468750001,"end":7611.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7611.837218750001,"end":7614.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7614.77346875,"end":7622.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7622.50221875,"end":7640.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7640.92971875,"end":7671.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7672.13159375,"end":7675.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7675.489718750001,"end":7679.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7679.843468750001,"end":7688.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7688.92221875,"end":7754.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7753.9247187500005,"end":7756.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7756.354718750001,"end":7761.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7760.6747187500005,"end":7762.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7761.90659375,"end":7769.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7768.3865937499995,"end":7771.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7770.1415937500005,"end":7776.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7771.05284375,"end":7771.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7776.419093750001,"end":7779.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7779.3553437499995,"end":7779.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7779.57471875,"end":7820.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7779.591593749999,"end":7779.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7821.44159375,"end":7825.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7827.01034375,"end":7829.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7830.0478437500005,"end":7839.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7839.936593750001,"end":7842.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7841.08409375,"end":7858.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7858.88721875,"end":7867.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7868.286593750001,"end":7873.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7874.243468750001,"end":7879.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7879.37346875,"end":7885.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7885.9715937500005,"end":7887.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7888.435343749999,"end":7956.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7957.302218750001,"end":7962.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7963.073468750001,"end":7963.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7964.17034375,"end":7972.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7973.36721875,"end":7986.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7987.23846875,"end":7990.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7991.2040937500005,"end":7991.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7991.54159375,"end":7994.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7994.83221875,"end":7999.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7999.253468750001,"end":8001.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8001.3290937500005,"end":8001.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8001.34596875,"end":8008.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8002.89846875,"end":8002.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8002.915343750001,"end":8002.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8002.965968750001,"end":8003.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8003.03346875,"end":8003.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8003.55659375,"end":8003.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8003.59034375,"end":8003.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8009.108468750001,"end":8009.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8009.142218750001,"end":8009.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8009.59784375,"end":8009.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8009.96909375,"end":8010.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8010.036593750001,"end":8010.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8010.99846875,"end":8015.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8016.077843750001,"end":8021.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8017.98471875,"end":8018.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8020.61721875,"end":8034.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8034.96096875,"end":8038.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8039.12909375,"end":8040.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8040.124718750001,"end":8040.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8040.411593750001,"end":8046.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8046.419093750001,"end":8049.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8051.26221875,"end":8055.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8065.15034375,"end":8067.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8068.28909375,"end":8069.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8074.870343750001,"end":8074.904093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8074.904093750001,"end":8075.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8075.59596875,"end":8079.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8079.86534375,"end":8089.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8089.770968750001,"end":8092.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8092.302218750001,"end":8093.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8093.87159375,"end":8099.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8102.477843750001,"end":8104.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8104.722218750001,"end":8107.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8107.52346875,"end":8109.497843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8109.7509687500005,"end":8113.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8113.716593750001,"end":8137.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8137.22346875,"end":8141.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8143.04534375,"end":8143.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8143.720343750001,"end":8148.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8148.276593750001,"end":8149.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8150.13284375,"end":8153.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8153.40659375,"end":8155.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8155.684718750001,"end":8158.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8158.51971875,"end":8159.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8160.359093750001,"end":8162.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8162.97471875,"end":8164.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8162.991593750001,"end":8163.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8163.02534375,"end":8163.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8163.464093750001,"end":8163.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8165.08409375,"end":8165.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8166.2822187500005,"end":8167.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8167.37909375,"end":8186.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8186.81909375,"end":8221.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8222.66159375,"end":8233.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8233.191593750002,"end":8262.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8263.54971875,"end":8288.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8288.406593750002,"end":8291.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8292.304718750001,"end":8309.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8308.403468750003,"end":8330.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8330.695343750001,"end":8354.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8354.759093750003,"end":8354.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8354.77596875,"end":8354.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8354.894093750001,"end":8354.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8354.97846875,"end":8354.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8354.99534375,"end":8355.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8355.61971875,"end":8355.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8355.653468750003,"end":8356.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8357.10471875,"end":8363.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8360.867843750002,"end":8362.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8364.090968750003,"end":8364.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8365.339718750001,"end":8366.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8367.989093750002,"end":8370.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8368.680968750003,"end":8405.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8405.28284375,"end":8407.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8407.847843750002,"end":8437.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8439.37034375,"end":8446.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8444.331593750001,"end":8458.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8446.238468750002,"end":8446.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8446.407218750002,"end":8446.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8459.046593750001,"end":8490.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8490.957218750002,"end":8513.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8507.00534375,"end":8507.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8507.039093750001,"end":8508.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8509.789718750002,"end":8557.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8557.52909375,"end":8560.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8559.250343750002,"end":8559.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8559.95909375,"end":8569.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8570.067218750002,"end":8573.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8574.10034375,"end":8578.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8578.825343750003,"end":8582.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8583.398468750001,"end":8583.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8583.668468750002,"end":8596.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8595.801593750002,"end":8599.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8599.868468750003,"end":8616.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8616.28784375,"end":8616.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8616.675968750002,"end":8623.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8624.20221875,"end":8625.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8625.92346875,"end":8631.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8631.37409375,"end":8636.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8637.077843750001,"end":8639.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8640.11534375,"end":8643.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8644.215968750003,"end":8662.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8662.99784375,"end":8675.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8677.004093750002,"end":8678.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8678.67471875,"end":8684.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8684.10846875,"end":8684.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8684.20971875,"end":8684.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8684.344718750002,"end":8684.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8685.32346875,"end":8685.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8686.926593750002,"end":8691.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8690.89221875,"end":8694.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8692.613468750002,"end":8693.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8694.469718750002,"end":8697.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8697.65909375,"end":8717.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8698.941593750002,"end":8698.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8698.95846875,"end":8699.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8699.02596875,"end":8702.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8718.63471875,"end":8721.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8720.33909375,"end":8720.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8721.452843750001,"end":8729.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8729.586593750002,"end":8741.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8739.40784375,"end":8747.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8746.765343750001,"end":8759.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8758.02096875,"end":8758.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8758.08846875,"end":8758.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8758.105343750001,"end":8758.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8758.476593750001,"end":8758.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8758.88159375,"end":8765.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8764.703468750002,"end":8793.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8794.89284375,"end":8795.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8796.20909375,"end":8797.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8796.85034375,"end":8797.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8798.26784375,"end":8799.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8800.343468750001,"end":8812.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8811.07596875,"end":8812.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8812.13909375,"end":8812.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8812.527218750001,"end":8815.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8814.282218750002,"end":8820.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8820.964718750001,"end":8828.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8824.12034375,"end":8825.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8825.706593750001,"end":8834.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8831.07284375,"end":8831.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8834.38034375,"end":8847.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8835.03846875,"end":8838.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8841.012218750002,"end":8841.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8841.41721875,"end":8842.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8846.85096875,"end":8849.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8848.774718750003,"end":8852.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8849.027843750002,"end":8862.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8871.20159375,"end":8871.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8871.387218750002,"end":8873.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8873.125343750002,"end":8873.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8881.410968750002,"end":8924.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8925.04971875,"end":8927.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8928.171593750001,"end":8990.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8991.01409375,"end":9014.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9015.297218750002,"end":9025.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9026.417843750001,"end":9037.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9037.977218750002,"end":9046.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9047.612843750001,"end":9068.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9053.99159375,"end":9054.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9054.04221875,"end":9054.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9054.329093750002,"end":9054.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9054.98721875,"end":9055.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9068.031593750002,"end":9105.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9105.207218750002,"end":9124.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9124.91721875,"end":9196.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9197.074718750002,"end":9197.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9199.96034375,"end":9204.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9203.200343750003,"end":9203.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9203.622218750003,"end":9289.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9291.524093750002,"end":9293.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9294.257843750001,"end":9316.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9300.82221875,"end":9301.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9304.46721875,"end":9304.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9316.667843750001,"end":9316.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9316.85346875,"end":9320.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9321.257843750001,"end":9323.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9323.13096875,"end":9368.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9324.09284375,"end":9324.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9324.109718750002,"end":9324.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9324.582218750002,"end":9324.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9325.206593750001,"end":9325.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9325.223468750002,"end":9325.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9337.339718750001,"end":9337.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9368.085968750001,"end":9410.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9410.712218750003,"end":9411.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9411.555968750003,"end":9412.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9411.606593750003,"end":9414.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9414.914093750001,"end":9417.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9417.95159375,"end":9431.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9433.30784375,"end":9437.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9438.015968750002,"end":9441.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9441.79596875,"end":9449.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9449.946593750003,"end":9452.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9453.01784375,"end":9457.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9457.43909375,"end":9457.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9457.945343750001,"end":9458.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9458.55284375,"end":9459.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9459.41346875,"end":9466.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9467.125343750002,"end":9470.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9470.550968750002,"end":9473.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9473.149718750003,"end":9475.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9475.84971875,"end":9477.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9479.24159375,"end":9479.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9479.984093750001,"end":9491.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9492.74159375,"end":9493.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9496.184093750002,"end":9496.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9497.129093750002,"end":9500.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9515.99534375,"end":9517.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9517.024718750003,"end":9517.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9517.058468750001,"end":9517.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9517.24409375,"end":9518.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9518.965343750002,"end":9518.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9519.72471875,"end":9520.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9522.52596875,"end":9524.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9525.20909375,"end":9526.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9527.234093750001,"end":9527.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9529.63034375,"end":9531.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9531.70596875,"end":9535.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9537.96659375,"end":9539.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9539.316593750002,"end":9539.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9539.97471875,"end":9540.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9540.109718750002,"end":9553.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9553.930343750002,"end":9555.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9555.972218750001,"end":9561.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9561.422843750002,"end":9562.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9563.987843750001,"end":9565.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9566.265968750002,"end":9571.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9571.78409375,"end":9573.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9575.78346875,"end":9575.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9575.800343750001,"end":9580.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9577.09971875,"end":9577.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9580.390343750001,"end":9581.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9582.01034375,"end":9582.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9582.094718750002,"end":9583.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9583.96784375,"end":9584.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9584.777843750002,"end":9587.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9587.039093750001,"end":9606.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9587.832218750002,"end":9588.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9605.85471875,"end":9619.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9619.962218750003,"end":9619.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9619.97909375,"end":9627.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9627.707843750002,"end":9634.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9635.36909375,"end":9654.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9654.72471875,"end":9658.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9658.774718750003,"end":9675.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9675.582218750002,"end":9680.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9680.762843750003,"end":9683.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9684.863468750002,"end":9687.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9687.05721875,"end":9691.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9692.237843750001,"end":9703.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9695.157218750002,"end":9695.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9704.117843750002,"end":9705.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9706.34534375,"end":9721.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9708.04971875,"end":9708.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9721.00971875,"end":9726.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9722.12346875,"end":9722.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9725.38034375,"end":9734.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9734.003468750001,"end":9739.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9739.133468750002,"end":9739.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9739.707218750002,"end":9739.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9739.96034375,"end":9744.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9745.57971875,"end":9754.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9746.828468750002,"end":9747.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9748.465343750002,"end":9748.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9748.566593750002,"end":9748.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9748.735343750002,"end":9748.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9748.769093750001,"end":9748.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9755.164718750002,"end":9755.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9755.18159375,"end":9760.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9760.902218750001,"end":9765.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9765.914093750001,"end":9807.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9766.20096875,"end":9766.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9807.308468750001,"end":9809.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9810.278468750003,"end":9817.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9817.36596875,"end":9818.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9817.399718750003,"end":9837.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9838.61159375,"end":9838.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9839.320343750001,"end":9852.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9847.774718750003,"end":9847.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9847.94346875,"end":9848.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9852.516593750002,"end":9862.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9857.37659375,"end":9863.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9863.65409375,"end":9882.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9867.265343750001,"end":9867.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9867.40034375,"end":9867.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9867.434093750002,"end":9867.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9867.51846875,"end":9867.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9872.378468750001,"end":9873.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9882.28409375,"end":9885.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9885.96284375,"end":9888.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9888.949718750002,"end":9890.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9890.940968750001,"end":9894.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9894.282218750002,"end":9912.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9912.152843750002,"end":9912.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9912.574718750002,"end":9927.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9927.644093750001,"end":9931.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9932.06534375,"end":9941.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9941.565968750001,"end":9956.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9957.074093750001,"end":9977.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9978.35346875,"end":9990.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9991.43159375,"end":9998.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9998.55284375,"end":9998.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9999.04221875,"end":10017.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10018.60034375,"end":10046.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10046.02221875,"end":10075.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10075.48596875,"end":10081.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10081.965968750003,"end":10087.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10083.012218750002,"end":10083.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10083.636593750001,"end":10084.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10084.159718750001,"end":10084.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10084.227218750002,"end":10084.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10094.53784375,"end":10096.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10096.680968750003,"end":10097.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10105.33784375,"end":10106.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10106.265968750002,"end":10177.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10178.74409375,"end":10187.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10186.152218750001,"end":10186.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10187.56971875,"end":10229.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10230.16221875,"end":10230.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10231.12409375,"end":10234.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10235.309093750002,"end":10236.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10236.33846875,"end":10238.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10239.527843750002,"end":10243.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10243.645343750002,"end":10345.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10346.903468750003,"end":10423.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10425.473468750002,"end":10427.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10427.22846875,"end":10427.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10427.27909375,"end":10430.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10431.24471875,"end":10436.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10437.08346875,"end":10437.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10437.809093750002,"end":10441.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10442.04471875,"end":10444.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10443.74909375,"end":10460.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10457.45159375,"end":10458.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10460.97846875,"end":10461.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10461.704093750002,"end":10473.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10473.415343750003,"end":10475.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10475.54159375,"end":10480.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10479.675968750002,"end":10484.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10483.87784375,"end":10512.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10513.08846875,"end":10533.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10534.249718750001,"end":10537.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10536.477218750002,"end":10536.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10537.152218750001,"end":10549.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10549.032218750002,"end":10549.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10549.335968750001,"end":10570.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10549.487843750001,"end":10549.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10571.13846875,"end":10574.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10575.171593750001,"end":10580.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10580.284718750001,"end":10607.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10607.875343750002,"end":10607.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10607.976593750001,"end":10608.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10608.516593750002,"end":10615.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10612.33034375,"end":10612.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10615.671593750001,"end":10621.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10621.08846875,"end":10624.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10625.273468750001,"end":10642.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10636.731593750003,"end":10636.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10641.321593750003,"end":10662.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10660.69409375,"end":10660.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10661.63909375,"end":10669.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10669.890968750002,"end":10697.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10697.81909375,"end":10701.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10698.17346875,"end":10698.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10701.177218750003,"end":10703.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10723.97534375,"end":10724.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10724.684093750002,"end":10724.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10724.70096875,"end":10724.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10725.055343750002,"end":10725.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10732.649093750002,"end":10733.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10733.98221875,"end":10738.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10739.21346875,"end":10752.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10752.055343750002,"end":10754.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10754.60346875,"end":10756.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10757.320343750001,"end":10764.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10766.027843750002,"end":10770.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10771.259093750003,"end":10776.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10777.82346875,"end":10778.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10779.899093750002,"end":10784.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10785.231593750003,"end":10793.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10790.277218750001,"end":10790.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10790.648468750001,"end":10790.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10794.47909375,"end":10796.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10797.38159375,"end":10811.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10806.81471875,"end":10807.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10811.99534375,"end":10814.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10815.45471875,"end":10822.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10824.22971875,"end":10828.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10828.245968750001,"end":10829.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10829.359718750002,"end":10829.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10830.22034375,"end":10862.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10862.114093750002,"end":10866.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10867.46346875,"end":10874.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10875.69846875,"end":10885.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10893.265343750001,"end":10903.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10904.554718750001,"end":10910.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10911.625343750002,"end":10912.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10912.722218750001,"end":10913.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10914.257843750001,"end":10917.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10918.915343750003,"end":10919.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10919.843468750001,"end":10932.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10932.668468750002,"end":10952.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10954.20096875,"end":10959.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10960.140968750002,"end":10969.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10969.35471875,"end":10969.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10969.489718750003,"end":10976.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10969.523468750001,"end":10969.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10975.41284375,"end":10976.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10976.324093750001,"end":11014.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11014.79909375,"end":11024.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11022.797843750002,"end":11023.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11024.485343750002,"end":11024.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11025.14346875,"end":11026.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11027.08409375,"end":11056.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11057.374718750001,"end":11070.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11071.617218750001,"end":11089.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11089.656593750002,"end":11101.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11102.515343750001,"end":11105.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11105.367218750001,"end":11106.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11106.83534375,"end":11109.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11109.957218750002,"end":11125.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11126.49471875,"end":11130.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11131.45596875,"end":11133.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11134.155968750001,"end":11139.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11139.640343750001,"end":11140.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11140.93971875,"end":11160.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11160.312218750001,"end":11168.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11163.231593750003,"end":11163.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11168.867843750002,"end":11171.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11171.90534375,"end":11174.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11173.62659375,"end":11179.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11179.97159375,"end":11179.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11179.988468750002,"end":11180.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11180.528468750003,"end":11183.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11180.579093750002,"end":11180.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11180.59596875,"end":11180.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11183.937218750001,"end":11189.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11186.367218750001,"end":11187.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11189.10096875,"end":11191.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11192.121593750002,"end":11194.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11195.614718750003,"end":11196.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11196.20534375,"end":11198.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11198.58471875,"end":11199.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11199.293468750002,"end":11201.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11202.128468750001,"end":11205.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11207.039093750001,"end":11242.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11243.320343750001,"end":11265.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11266.13534375,"end":11276.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11276.344718750002,"end":11276.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11277.32346875,"end":11279.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11279.85471875,"end":11279.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11279.88846875,"end":11279.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11279.93909375,"end":11280.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11280.445343750001,"end":11280.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11280.462218750003,"end":11280.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11280.68159375,"end":11304.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11305.082843750002,"end":11314.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11314.49909375,"end":11318.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11317.35096875,"end":11341.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11331.82971875,"end":11332.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11341.212218750003,"end":11341.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11341.245968750001,"end":11341.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11341.634093750003,"end":11342.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11342.07284375,"end":11342.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11342.089718750001,"end":11342.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11342.309093750002,"end":11344.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11342.37659375,"end":11342.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11342.44409375,"end":11347.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11344.536593750003,"end":11344.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11348.08034375,"end":11359.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11360.770343750002,"end":11362.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11364.48284375,"end":11366.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11374.40534375,"end":11375.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11375.87346875,"end":11376.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11383.73721875,"end":11389.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11390.672843750002,"end":11395.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11396.106593750003,"end":11400.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11400.679718750001,"end":11471.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11472.027218750001,"end":11485.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11486.03346875,"end":11493.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11494.63971875,"end":11499.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11499.668468750002,"end":11529.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11512.797218750002,"end":11512.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11512.81409375,"end":11513.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11519.226593750001,"end":11523.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11529.030968750001,"end":11531.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11531.528468750003,"end":11531.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11531.54534375,"end":11531.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11531.612843750001,"end":11531.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11531.680343750002,"end":11531.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11531.76471875,"end":11531.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11531.882843750001,"end":11534.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11534.97096875,"end":11535.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11535.96659375,"end":11538.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11538.46409375,"end":11538.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11538.54846875,"end":11538.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11538.599093750003,"end":11550.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11538.71721875,"end":11539.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11550.867218750001,"end":11559.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11559.878468750001,"end":11562.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11562.797843750002,"end":11611.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11612.460968750001,"end":11612.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11613.254093750002,"end":11619.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11619.49784375,"end":11622.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11622.50159375,"end":11664.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11642.34659375,"end":11642.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11661.465968750003,"end":11662.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11664.300968750002,"end":11664.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11664.790343750003,"end":11664.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11664.874718750001,"end":11684.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11664.992843750002,"end":11665.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11682.593468750001,"end":11685.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11684.652218750001,"end":11684.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11685.293468750002,"end":11685.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11685.31034375,"end":11685.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11685.32721875,"end":11685.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11685.344093750002,"end":11685.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11685.411593750003,"end":11688.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11695.097843750002,"end":11696.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11696.903468750003,"end":11698.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11699.046593750001,"end":11699.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11706.94409375,"end":11707.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11708.31096875,"end":11709.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11710.032218750002,"end":11712.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11713.32284375,"end":11715.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11715.550343750001,"end":11716.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11718.33471875,"end":11718.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11719.634093750003,"end":11720.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11720.39346875,"end":11721.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11722.08096875,"end":11723.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11725.540343750003,"end":11727.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11727.66659375,"end":11729.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11729.50596875,"end":11731.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11731.56471875,"end":11732.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11732.695343750001,"end":11736.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11737.04909375,"end":11738.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11739.95159375,"end":11763.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11763.593468750001,"end":11775.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11765.63534375,"end":11766.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11768.571593750003,"end":11768.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11768.723468750002,"end":11768.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11776.047218750002,"end":11777.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11776.114718750003,"end":11780.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11778.156593750002,"end":11783.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11783.708468750003,"end":11794.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11795.200343750003,"end":11796.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11796.75284375,"end":11798.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11799.419093750003,"end":11800.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11800.17846875,"end":11801.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11801.44409375,"end":11803.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11804.430968750003,"end":11806.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11807.333468750003,"end":11810.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11810.387843750003,"end":11811.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11811.88971875,"end":11813.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11814.066593750002,"end":11814.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11815.500968750002,"end":11816.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11817.32346875,"end":11817.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11817.99846875,"end":11819.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11820.614093750002,"end":11824.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11824.883468750002,"end":11847.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11846.93909375,"end":11850.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11850.60096875,"end":11855.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11856.59159375,"end":11869.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11869.062218750001,"end":11871.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11872.082843750002,"end":11877.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11876.284718750001,"end":11880.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11881.33034375,"end":11885.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11885.65034375,"end":11890.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11891.320343750001,"end":11893.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11893.34534375,"end":11894.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11895.134093750003,"end":11897.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11897.14221875,"end":11899.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11899.36971875,"end":11899.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11899.859093750001,"end":11901.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11903.38596875,"end":11907.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11906.575343750003,"end":11909.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11907.70596875,"end":11909.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11910.844718750002,"end":11912.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11913.578468750002,"end":11915.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11915.92409375,"end":11919.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11919.265343750001,"end":11920.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11921.172218750002,"end":11927.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11927.669093750003,"end":11933.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11933.86221875,"end":11934.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11936.005343750003,"end":11936.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11936.882843750001,"end":11938.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11938.75596875,"end":11942.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11942.99159375,"end":11944.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11944.61159375,"end":11945.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11945.94471875,"end":11950.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11950.58534375,"end":11951.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11952.57659375,"end":11952.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11952.610343750002,"end":11953.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11953.487843750001,"end":11955.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11955.985343750002,"end":11956.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11956.930343750002,"end":11959.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11959.17471875,"end":11965.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11965.77284375,"end":11970.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11970.480968750002,"end":11981.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11982.25971875,"end":11986.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11987.17034375,"end":11987.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11987.27159375,"end":11994.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11995.01721875,"end":12002.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12003.72471875,"end":12005.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12005.496593750002,"end":12006.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12007.21784375,"end":12007.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12007.234718750002,"end":12008.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12007.42034375,"end":12008.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12008.753468750001,"end":12011.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12009.25971875,"end":12010.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12012.06096875,"end":12016.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12016.836593750002,"end":12018.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12019.215968750003,"end":12031.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12029.543468750002,"end":12033.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12033.610343750002,"end":12038.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12039.499718750001,"end":12039.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12040.613468750002,"end":12041.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12040.90034375,"end":12040.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12041.33909375,"end":12046.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12046.958468750003,"end":12048.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12048.105968750002,"end":12054.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12049.472843750002,"end":12053.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12053.45534375,"end":12053.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12063.32721875,"end":12063.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12064.37346875,"end":12065.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12067.461593750002,"end":12069.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12072.422843750002,"end":12072.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12072.96284375,"end":12074.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12076.169093750003,"end":12079.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12091.47471875,"end":12093.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12093.31409375,"end":12094.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12100.519718750002,"end":12101.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12101.785343750002,"end":12102.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12103.23659375,"end":12107.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12108.94034375,"end":12109.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12110.10471875,"end":12113.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12113.14221875,"end":12117.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12118.289093750001,"end":12120.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12120.989093750002,"end":12124.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12125.37659375,"end":12126.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12126.96284375,"end":12129.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12129.46034375,"end":12131.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12131.23221875,"end":12131.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12132.379718750002,"end":12133.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12134.23596875,"end":12135.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12135.737843750001,"end":12136.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12137.712218750003,"end":12140.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12140.867843750002,"end":12141.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12141.914093750001,"end":12145.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12145.980968750002,"end":12146.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12146.082218750002,"end":12148.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12148.69784375,"end":12149.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12149.74409375,"end":12152.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12152.781593750002,"end":12153.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12154.266593750002,"end":12155.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12155.76846875,"end":12158.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12159.76784375,"end":12160.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12160.83096875,"end":12161.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12162.24846875,"end":12165.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12166.028468750003,"end":12170.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12170.80409375,"end":12178.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12178.90409375,"end":12182.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12183.24096875,"end":12185.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12186.61596875,"end":12211.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12195.087218750003,"end":12195.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12195.32346875,"end":12195.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12211.945343750001,"end":12214.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12215.13471875,"end":12217.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12218.070968750002,"end":12221.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12222.542843750001,"end":12224.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12225.31034375,"end":12226.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12227.250968750002,"end":12228.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12230.406593750002,"end":12231.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12231.95909375,"end":12233.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12233.96721875,"end":12234.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12235.266593750002,"end":12236.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12237.49409375,"end":12239.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12239.97471875,"end":12243.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12244.075343750003,"end":12244.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12245.72909375,"end":12246.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12247.349093750003,"end":12250.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12251.73659375,"end":12252.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12253.47471875,"end":12254.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12254.824718750002,"end":12267.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12268.122218750003,"end":12269.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12269.65784375,"end":12271.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12272.492843750002,"end":12274.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12274.382843750001,"end":12275.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12276.390968750002,"end":12278.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12280.27221875,"end":12281.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12281.68971875,"end":12283.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12284.59221875,"end":12286.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12286.87034375,"end":12288.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12289.418468750002,"end":12292.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12292.97909375,"end":12293.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12294.12659375,"end":12295.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12296.82659375,"end":12298.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12298.83471875,"end":12303.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12303.644093750001,"end":12306.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12306.968468750001,"end":12307.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12307.99784375,"end":12311.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12311.895968750003,"end":12315.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12316.01346875,"end":12318.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12319.118468750003,"end":12320.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12321.379718750002,"end":12321.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12322.375343750002,"end":12322.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12324.585968750001,"end":12335.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12336.38159375,"end":12338.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12338.81159375,"end":12339.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12340.49909375,"end":12344.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12344.61659375,"end":12346.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12347.164718750002,"end":12351.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12352.04159375,"end":12354.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12354.57284375,"end":12355.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12355.821593750003,"end":12357.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12358.04909375,"end":12372.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12373.43909375,"end":12376.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12376.746593750002,"end":12377.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12377.472218750001,"end":12381.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12379.98659375,"end":12381.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12382.68659375,"end":12386.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12387.05721875,"end":12393.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12393.874718750001,"end":12395.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12395.34284375,"end":12397.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12397.92471875,"end":12400.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12402.12659375,"end":12405.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12405.72096875,"end":12410.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12407.94846875,"end":12408.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12410.074718750002,"end":12413.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12413.21346875,"end":12415.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12415.59284375,"end":12420.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12420.90846875,"end":12430.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12431.843468750001,"end":12438.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12438.660968750002,"end":12452.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12451.215968750003,"end":12453.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12453.679718750001,"end":12460.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12460.379093750002,"end":12464.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12464.83409375,"end":12468.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12468.69846875,"end":12469.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12470.01471875,"end":12471.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12471.719093750002,"end":12473.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12474.11534375,"end":12477.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12478.33409375,"end":12485.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12486.36659375,"end":12498.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12498.550343750001,"end":12508.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12508.320968750002,"end":12510.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12511.223468750002,"end":12517.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12517.66971875,"end":12536.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12537.09284375,"end":12550.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12550.20471875,"end":12555.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12563.60346875,"end":12564.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12566.35409375,"end":12566.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12572.95221875,"end":12591.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12592.34159375,"end":12594.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12595.26096875,"end":12595.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12596.56034375,"end":12598.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12598.68659375,"end":12601.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12601.656593750002,"end":12602.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12602.43284375,"end":12602.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12603.00659375,"end":12603.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12603.816593750002,"end":12603.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12604.710968750001,"end":12604.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12604.96409375,"end":12605.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12605.031593750002,"end":12605.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12605.976593750001,"end":12606.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12606.027218750001,"end":12606.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12606.972218750001,"end":12607.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12607.02284375,"end":12627.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12628.504718750002,"end":12649.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12650.72909375,"end":12658.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12658.187843750002,"end":12659.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12660.398468750001,"end":12660.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12660.972218750001,"end":12675.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12674.94471875,"end":12674.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12675.51846875,"end":12675.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12675.805343750002,"end":12676.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12676.024718750003,"end":12676.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12676.969718750002,"end":12677.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12677.03721875,"end":12677.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12677.965343750002,"end":12679.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12680.36159375,"end":12684.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12683.78721875,"end":12696.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12697.067843750003,"end":12697.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12698.434718750003,"end":12702.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12703.36221875,"end":12704.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12705.47159375,"end":12705.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12705.977843750003,"end":12706.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12706.433468750001,"end":12707.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12707.395343750002,"end":12729.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12710.247218750003,"end":12711.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12711.968468750001,"end":12712.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12719.933468750001,"end":12720.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12729.46784375,"end":12748.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12749.110343750002,"end":12751.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12752.19846875,"end":12754.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12755.337218750003,"end":12757.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12757.98659375,"end":12758.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12759.40409375,"end":12759.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12760.83846875,"end":12762.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12762.32346875,"end":12763.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12763.926593750002,"end":12765.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12765.90096875,"end":12770.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12772.313468750002,"end":12777.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12778.202843750001,"end":12783.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12784.29471875,"end":12790.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12791.145968750003,"end":12795.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12796.22534375,"end":12798.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12799.44846875,"end":12802.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12802.45221875,"end":12806.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12807.29534375,"end":12809.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12810.552218750003,"end":12811.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12810.906593750002,"end":12819.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12812.965343750002,"end":12813.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12819.023468750001,"end":12827.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12828.270968750003,"end":12829.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12830.22846875,"end":12830.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12832.13534375,"end":12843.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12832.489718750003,"end":12832.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12832.97909375,"end":12833.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12843.559718750003,"end":12852.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12852.80721875,"end":12855.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12856.519718750002,"end":12859.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12860.434718750003,"end":12860.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12862.122218750003,"end":12865.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12865.649093750002,"end":12870.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12870.036593750003,"end":12873.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12873.968468750001,"end":12876.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12876.58409375,"end":12893.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12894.67409375,"end":12895.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12896.175968750002,"end":12898.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12898.79159375,"end":12902.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12903.60096875,"end":12904.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12904.90034375,"end":12908.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12908.899718750003,"end":12913.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12913.962218750003,"end":12939.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12940.489718750003,"end":12945.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12945.99096875,"end":12951.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12951.036593750003,"end":12953.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12952.285343750002,"end":12952.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12953.145968750003,"end":12953.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12953.58471875,"end":12953.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12953.90534375,"end":12956.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12956.84159375,"end":12956.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12956.875343750002,"end":12957.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12957.786593750003,"end":12960.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12961.532843750003,"end":12965.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12965.937218750001,"end":12968.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12965.987843750001,"end":12966.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12966.81471875,"end":12967.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12968.164718750002,"end":12968.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12968.97471875,"end":12969.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12969.04221875,"end":12978.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12969.07596875,"end":12969.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12972.180968750003,"end":12972.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12974.864093750002,"end":12987.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12978.019718750002,"end":12978.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12978.610343750002,"end":12978.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12978.964718750001,"end":12980.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12980.972843750002,"end":12982.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12988.094093750002,"end":12989.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12989.81534375,"end":12994.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12989.950343750003,"end":12990.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13009.204718750003,"end":13012.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13019.329718750003,"end":13019.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13019.363468750002,"end":13032.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13019.481593750003,"end":13020.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13032.57659375,"end":13036.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13036.54221875,"end":13047.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13047.88221875,"end":13066.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13067.102843750003,"end":13068.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13068.97596875,"end":13074.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13075.33784375,"end":13080.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13081.379093750002,"end":13087.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13087.31909375,"end":13091.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13092.617843750002,"end":13105.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13105.98284375,"end":13106.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13106.92784375,"end":13107.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13108.750343750002,"end":13110.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13111.09596875,"end":13112.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13112.47971875,"end":13116.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13117.407218750002,"end":13124.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13125.16971875,"end":13127.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13128.477218750002,"end":13129.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13130.215343750002,"end":13131.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13131.784718750001,"end":13133.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13134.231593750003,"end":13138.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13138.51784375,"end":13143.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13143.833468750003,"end":13145.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13146.044093750003,"end":13149.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13150.684718750003,"end":13158.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13158.41346875,"end":13161.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13161.434093750002,"end":13167.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13164.066593750002,"end":13165.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13166.26034375,"end":13173.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13173.58409375,"end":13183.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13182.13971875,"end":13186.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13186.392218750003,"end":13193.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13193.749718750001,"end":13196.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13196.196593750003,"end":13196.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13197.242843750002,"end":13198.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13198.508468750002,"end":13200.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13200.48284375,"end":13202.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13203.38534375,"end":13204.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13205.106593750003,"end":13207.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13207.789718750002,"end":13209.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13209.274718750003,"end":13210.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13210.860968750003,"end":13212.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13213.054718750001,"end":13213.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13214.52284375,"end":13215.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13216.530968750001,"end":13218.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13218.79221875,"end":13219.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13220.327843750001,"end":13221.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13221.812843750002,"end":13224.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13224.985343750002,"end":13227.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13227.972218750001,"end":13229.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13230.520343750002,"end":13231.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13231.38096875,"end":13236.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13237.320968750002,"end":13238.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13239.56534375,"end":13244.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13245.285968750002,"end":13245.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13246.484093750001,"end":13247.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13248.407843750003,"end":13252.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13252.96409375,"end":13255.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13256.035343750002,"end":13259.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13259.730968750002,"end":13260.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13261.114718750003,"end":13261.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13261.65471875,"end":13263.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13263.71346875,"end":13266.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13266.24471875,"end":13267.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13268.08409375,"end":13270.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13271.47596875,"end":13273.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13274.46284375,"end":13283.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13278.074093750001,"end":13278.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13280.031593750002,"end":13280.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13280.200343750003,"end":13280.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13284.047843750002,"end":13291.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13291.439093750003,"end":13292.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13292.704718750003,"end":13294.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13294.78034375,"end":13295.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13296.265343750001,"end":13297.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13298.273468750001,"end":13299.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13299.42096875,"end":13300.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13301.53034375,"end":13304.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13305.20909375,"end":13305.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13306.47471875,"end":13308.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13309.562843750002,"end":13309.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13310.305343750002,"end":13311.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13312.17846875,"end":13316.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13316.34659375,"end":13317.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13318.72596875,"end":13320.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13320.599093750003,"end":13323.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13323.906593750002,"end":13325.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13325.89784375,"end":13327.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13327.821593750003,"end":13330.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13331.939093750003,"end":13334.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13334.723468750002,"end":13336.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13336.79909375,"end":13341.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13342.587218750003,"end":13345.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13346.434718750003,"end":13347.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13348.375343750002,"end":13349.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13350.501593750003,"end":13355.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13355.78346875,"end":13357.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13357.825343750003,"end":13358.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13359.63096875,"end":13361.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13362.347843750002,"end":13364.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13366.094093750002,"end":13366.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13366.110968750003,"end":13367.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13367.039093750001,"end":13371.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13367.460968750001,"end":13368.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13372.253468750001,"end":13383.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13381.19721875,"end":13381.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13383.37409375,"end":13383.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13383.964718750001,"end":13384.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13385.348468750002,"end":13388.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13388.74034375,"end":13389.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13390.461593750002,"end":13394.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13394.29221875,"end":13394.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13394.39346875,"end":13394.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13394.410343750002,"end":13395.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13395.034718750001,"end":13397.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13396.536593750003,"end":13396.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13396.55346875,"end":13397.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13397.70096875,"end":13397.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13397.97096875,"end":13406.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13402.375343750002,"end":13402.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13402.392218750003,"end":13402.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13402.442843750003,"end":13403.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13403.910968750002,"end":13403.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13404.41721875,"end":13405.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13406.62784375,"end":13406.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13406.661593750003,"end":13406.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13406.67846875,"end":13406.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13406.762843750003,"end":13407.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13407.117218750001,"end":13413.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13407.134093750003,"end":13412.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13412.53409375,"end":13412.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13413.715343750002,"end":13414.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13414.94721875,"end":13418.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13418.86221875,"end":13420.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13421.32596875,"end":13422.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13422.23721875,"end":13429.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13428.81846875,"end":13429.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13429.72971875,"end":13432.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13431.34971875,"end":13437.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13435.062218750001,"end":13435.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13438.251593750003,"end":13441.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13447.245968750001,"end":13448.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13449.65909375,"end":13450.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13456.56096875,"end":13456.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13456.577843750001,"end":13457.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13457.60721875,"end":13458.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13459.176593750002,"end":13466.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13467.090968750003,"end":13500.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13501.144718750002,"end":13507.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13508.50221875,"end":13508.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13508.755343750003,"end":13515.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13515.977843750003,"end":13517.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13517.192843750003,"end":13524.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13520.58471875,"end":13521.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13523.723468750002,"end":13529.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13530.11909375,"end":13542.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13543.349093750003,"end":13597.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13577.520968750003,"end":13577.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13577.79096875,"end":13577.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13577.85846875,"end":13577.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13597.46721875,"end":13608.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13600.504718750002,"end":13600.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13600.977218750002,"end":13600.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13601.95596875,"end":13601.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13601.972843750002,"end":13602.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13602.833468750003,"end":13602.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13609.313468750002,"end":13613.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13609.49909375,"end":13610.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13612.60409375,"end":13615.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13615.945343750001,"end":13646.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13646.97846875,"end":13650.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13652.024093750002,"end":13652.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13652.800343750001,"end":13678.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13679.294093750003,"end":13690.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13691.22471875,"end":13703.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13697.907218750002,"end":13701.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13702.952843750001,"end":13710.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13709.196593750003,"end":13711.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13711.42409375,"end":13712.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13712.655968750001,"end":13715.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13715.237843750001,"end":13718.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13718.74784375,"end":13723.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13724.282843750003,"end":13726.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13726.72971875,"end":13758.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13758.89346875,"end":13792.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13759.21409375,"end":13760.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13770.48659375,"end":13772.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13787.142218750003,"end":13787.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13791.934718750003,"end":13793.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13794.027218750001,"end":13797.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13797.06471875,"end":13801.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13799.427218750003,"end":13799.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13802.02596875,"end":13802.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13802.07659375,"end":13804.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13803.848468750002,"end":13805.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13806.160343750002,"end":13807.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13806.24471875,"end":13806.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13808.62409375,"end":13814.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13813.88909375,"end":13820.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13815.930968750003,"end":13816.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13817.652218750001,"end":13818.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13820.352218750002,"end":13820.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13820.53784375,"end":13820.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13820.79096875,"end":13821.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13820.80784375,"end":13820.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13820.875343750002,"end":13820.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13820.925968750002,"end":13821.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13821.58409375,"end":13821.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13821.972218750001,"end":13825.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13822.44471875,"end":13822.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13822.562843750002,"end":13826.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13825.735343750002,"end":13828.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13827.28784375,"end":13829.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13830.527843750002,"end":13831.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13831.18596875,"end":13831.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13831.574093750001,"end":13831.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13831.675343750001,"end":13831.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13831.860968750003,"end":13834.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13833.649718750003,"end":13833.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13833.683468750001,"end":13833.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13833.734093750001,"end":13834.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13834.35846875,"end":13834.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13834.594718750002,"end":13834.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13835.320343750001,"end":13836.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13836.974093750003,"end":13843.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13843.251593750003,"end":13845.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13845.816593750002,"end":13846.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13845.95159375,"end":13847.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13848.28034375,"end":13856.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13853.17409375,"end":13856.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13856.07659375,"end":13856.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13856.81909375,"end":13856.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13856.835968750001,"end":13857.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13857.03846875,"end":13858.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13857.51096875,"end":13857.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13859.215343750002,"end":13862.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13862.370968750001,"end":13865.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13863.704093750002,"end":13864.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13865.88096875,"end":13877.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13874.36909375,"end":13874.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13877.01846875,"end":13885.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13884.477218750002,"end":13884.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13886.586593750002,"end":13889.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13889.77596875,"end":13891.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13890.737843750001,"end":13892.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13892.67846875,"end":13908.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13908.372218750003,"end":13912.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13912.60784375,"end":13918.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13919.189093750003,"end":13929.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13929.465968750003,"end":13932.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13933.262843750003,"end":13936.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13936.367843750002,"end":13950.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13952.01096875,"end":13959.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13959.97596875,"end":13961.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13961.96721875,"end":13962.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13963.097843750002,"end":13967.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13967.316593750002,"end":13972.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13973.914718750002,"end":13985.49096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1859.449,"end":1871.061,"text":"報告委員會出席委員9人與主法定人數我們開會請議事人員宣讀上一次會議議事錄"},{"start":1872.984,"end":1894.306,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月7日星期四上午9時1分至12時46分地點紅樓301會議室出席委員黃仁等10人列席委員洪孟凱等13人請教委員陳永康列席人員外交部部長林佳龍及所屬人員"},{"start":1895.185,"end":1915.391,"text":"大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑主席林昭吉委員異軍報告是向一宣讀上次會議意思錄決定確定二、邀請外交部部長大陸委員會報告美國總統大選後對美中台生平關係及未來國際局勢發展之影響並被質詢外交部部長林佳龍及大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑報告"},{"start":1916.651,"end":1944.285,"text":"委員王定宇等17人質詢均由外交部部長林佳龍、歐洲司司長黃君耀、拉丁美洲及加勒比海斯司長鄭麗成及大陸委員會副主任委員梁文傑等即席答復決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二、委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答復或要求提供之資訊請相關機關與二周內以書面答復本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定"},{"start":1944.938,"end":1962.284,"text":"三委員陳永康所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報宣讀完畢請問在場委員對於上一次的會議議事錄有無遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有的話我們請議事委員宣讀報告事項"},{"start":1965.267,"end":1967.469,"text":"一、國軍生產及服務作業基金（二、國軍老舊眷村改建基金（三、國防醫學院軍事教育基金（二、資本計劃基金（國軍營設及設施改建基金（宣讀完畢"},{"start":1998.151,"end":2018.366,"text":"好我們先來介紹目前到場的委員有陳永康委員羅美玲委員沈伯陽委員那另外我們列席的官員有國防部長顧立雄副參謀總長執行官鄭榮峰常務次長楊基榮權動署署長白潔龍"},{"start":2029.373,"end":2053.395,"text":"總督察長是總督察長張元勛參事石文榮恭喜政務辦公室主任陳道輝政治作案局局長陳玉玲軍備局局長林文祥主計局局長謝其賢軍醫局醫務管理處處長許玉瑞"},{"start":2060.253,"end":2087.504,"text":"你們局長請假下次加單先給我好不好請坐再來站規司司長黃文啟指揮司司長鄧克雄法律司司長沈世偉整平司副司長趙建國你們司長也請假嗎"},{"start":2093.3,"end":2110.868,"text":"國防採購事主任趙雅萍政風事主任王振國主計事主任楊登武人事事主任徐惠美人事參謀次長是次長劉佩智情報參謀次長是次長謝日昇"},{"start":2117.54,"end":2128.643,"text":"作戰計畫參謀次長是次長陳文新後勤參謀次長是次長李鳳翔通信電子資訊參謀次長是次長鄧恩蓮訓次是次長張俊志陸軍參謀長陳建義海軍參謀長邱俊榮空軍參謀長王德陽"},{"start":2147.605,"end":2174.37,"text":"後指部參謀長薛淵泉現指部參謀長呂正芳陸軍後勤指揮部參謀長劉清薰直通電軍指揮部參謀長陳俊良軍情局局長楊敬瑟電展室主任郭志國國防大學教育長李承忠"},{"start":2176.892,"end":2188.759,"text":"中正裕孝校長陳順儒中科院院長李世強行政院主計總處專委邱碧珠"},{"start":2194.143,"end":2213.719,"text":"本日會議審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分與附屬單位預算共計四項基金案那今天先進行詢答本席在面也跟本委員會的委員同仁報告"},{"start":2215.18,"end":2241.605,"text":"因為我們委員會目前多數都是第一次進到國防委員會第一次審查國防的總預算所以本席特別把逐案審查的時間放後面一點點拉長我們各司可以跟各委員進行溝通的時間進行說明所以我們今天11月13號進行公務預算及所屬基金預算的詢答"},{"start":2243.004,"end":2249.13,"text":"那11月20號我們尋網曆一周內請各委員提案我們在"},{"start":2250.593,"end":2272.814,"text":"請各位委員還有現在在看直播的助理記錄下來11月20號下午5點前截止收案有關公務預算的案我再宣達一次今天進行詢答11月20號下午5點前截止收案公務預算的收案那我們什麼時候進行主條審查呢12月9號"},{"start":2275.696,"end":2298.722,"text":"12月9號我們來進行預算的審查包含公務預算的提案到時候馬雄網利會分項分次來進行審查以上跟本會的同仁來做報告那今天的報告有公開預算還有機密預算那報告採取先公開後秘密的方式報告後呢"},{"start":2299.422,"end":2318.004,"text":"進行詢答先秘密後公開時間並記將我們清場入場只需要一次那今天我們也特別請立法院的警衛在進行清場後在幫我們的這個會議空間進行一些掃描的工作確保機密不會外洩好那"},{"start":2319.687,"end":2345.067,"text":"另外質詢的時間也讓機密質詢的委員瞭解今天本會委員6加2分鐘若今天詢答沒有完成不用擔心我們到逐條審查的時候到時候時間是沒有限制的大家可以充分發言那非本會委員今天是4分鐘那如有臨時提案請在10點半前提出發言登記截止也一樣在10點半好"},{"start":2345.908,"end":2365.379,"text":"現在我們請國防部顧立雄部長就我們明年度的國防預算及相關的基金進行報告主席各位委員先進感謝大院"},{"start":2367.041,"end":2388.06,"text":"貴委員會安排本部實施114年度預算案報告承蒙各位委員先進對國防預算的支持與督測再次表達誠摯的謝意近期中國企圖以常態化灰色地帶洗澡對我國家安全造成嚴峻的挑戰國軍貫徹防衛固守從而嚇阻之軍事戰略構想陸立戰備"},{"start":2393.14,"end":2408.872,"text":"整備工作本部114年度主管單位預算編列4760億元處優先預注法定義務必要支出並致重點以建構不對稱戰力提升防衛韌性強化後備戰力及灰色地帶應儲等要項"},{"start":2411.013,"end":2435.258,"text":"附屬單位預算編列806億元為深湖建改軍教及引改等四個特種基金均依照設置目的妥適規劃運用懇請各位委員先進給予指導與支持接續由主計局局長謝啟賢中將就114年度主管單位預算與深湖基金征戰局局長"},{"start":2439.692,"end":2468.049,"text":"陳玉玲中將、軍醫局局長、蔡金松防局、軍備局局長、林文翔中將、分舊、眷改、軍教與營改基金向各位委員報告。謝謝。主席各位委員先進面對當前國際情勢及中共灰色地帶洗腦"},{"start":2469.7,"end":2484.41,"text":"國軍致力維持臺海及區域的和平穩定以建構不對稱戰力為主軸有效提升防衛韌性與後備戰力本部114年度主管稅出預算編列4760億4383萬9千元"},{"start":2490.657,"end":2492.598,"text":"較公開較113年度增加415億6295萬4千元公開部分編列4503億4290萬元災暴如次請過次頁114年度施政重點一、務實建軍規劃強化作戰韌性"},{"start":2513.356,"end":2531.172,"text":"因應敵情威脅需強化自我防衛能力以維持區域穩定國軍秉持防衛作戰思維與戰略構想務實提升防衛韌性及建構完整不對稱戰力尋對美軍構重要管道籌獲各式裝備達有效嚇阻之目標"},{"start":2532.973,"end":2548.901,"text":"114年度持續執行新式陸軍新型戰車遠程精準火力打擊系統海軍魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統空軍高高空無人機等案即編列一般武器裝備及戰備支援裝備構置等預算705億9477萬8千元二、提升連戰效能持恆實戰訓練中共近年長屆戰備警巡登陸操演"},{"start":2561.513,"end":2573.367,"text":"沿海長航及灰色地帶洗腦等軍事行動進行跨軍種聯合演訓加大對我威懾力度壓縮我國防預警應處空間國軍因應敵情變化強化跨軍種聯戰能力以年度漢光演習為核心"},{"start":2580.425,"end":2588.993,"text":"運用聯戰指管系統整合共同作戰圖像透過打、裝、編訓之系統化建軍備戰過程採實兵、實地、實時、實裝等實戰化訓練方式以更務實方式使官兵貼近實戰狀況藉以驗證三軍聯戰指揮機制"},{"start":2601.431,"end":2611.824,"text":"武器及砂鍊部隊作戰能力及去中心化運作效能必達兵種協同軍種聯合目標即編列作戰綜合作業等預算133億1025萬5千元"},{"start":2614.781,"end":2637.202,"text":"三、結合科研能量後職國防自主為遂行國防自主目標本部除持續進行基建國造外114年度依計劃籌建潛建國造後續建7艘快速布雷艇後續艇6艘與新型步槍等新增軍事投資建案並前瞻先進科技趨勢及廉戰需求目標"},{"start":2638.183,"end":2662.394,"text":"建立自我研製技術（同時媒合國內學術界研發能量（推動國防科技研究與武器裝備研製（以支持基建國造及無人機等先進科技關鍵技術開發（其中推動艦艇噪音模擬系統研發與驗證等116案國防先進科技研究計劃（展現我國防自主（（能量（"},{"start":2665.339,"end":2691.318,"text":"研發成果為武器系統裝備前期研發至重要基石滿足未來作戰場景需求即編列軍品研發等預算568億5152萬6千元四、整合後勤量能發揮武器效能國軍官兵不分昼夜束手我領土海江及空域執行兼征警戒驅離戰備警巡更正戰備巡航及聯合演訓等任務"},{"start":2692.894,"end":2720.139,"text":"為鞏固戰力不墜至重點籌補經國號F16幻象2000高較機成功級巡防艦及M60A3戰車引擎等裝備零附件確保航空艦艇戰甲砲車等重要武器妥善並因應戰遠訓任務彈藥維持採購紅準反裝甲及雷霆2000高爆火箭彈等有效強化突發狀況下應變與反制能力"},{"start":2720.959,"end":2736.23,"text":"同時積極檢討老舊不適用即使用效益不彰武器裝備納入太儲提升新增裝備儲備空間及整體維保效能即編列軍事單位裝備零附件構置及保修等預算1057億7161萬9千元"},{"start":2740.731,"end":2766.956,"text":"五、提升專業職能優化人才培育人才為建軍根本培養高素質專業能力為建構堅實國防戰力基礎前瞻現代化高科技武器裝備更新及新型態敵情威脅持續強化軍事教育與訓練務實國軍人才培育並合理調整官兵待遇塑建穩定流營機制與環境其次鼓勵進修獲取學位與證照"},{"start":2768.561,"end":2787.295,"text":"以精進專業職能使其安心規劃職涯適性發展另藉由完善人才招募措施吸引有志青年投身軍旅穩定人力需求來源廣除專業優質國軍人力提升部隊整體素質鞏固基層戰力及編列心想等預算1839億6217萬5千元"},{"start":2792.685,"end":2800.127,"text":"6強韌後備戰力落實全民防衛接近二屋戰爭經驗各國軍陸力加強後備動員能量本部為強韌後備部隊整體戰力結合周邊關鍵基礎設施持續精進各項教招訓練實施戰術地位置招訓有助戰時迅速動員編程臨戰訓練及完成作戰部署"},{"start":2816.48,"end":2824.212,"text":"並配合年度同心演習請過事業協同警消及民防團隊驗證全民防衛動員以達戰訓合一目標其間為堅實全民防衛動員機制厚植國家整體防衛量能"},{"start":2832.128,"end":2839.692,"text":"令其召集各部會及地方政府研修年度動員準備計畫檢視動員法規盤點戰略物資維生系統及暫時災民收容救濟站等並以暫時景況為想定擴大辦理民安、萬安演習及各級動員職能訓練進而強化社會防衛韌性及編列動員整備等預算28億1528萬2000元"},{"start":2860.102,"end":2879.027,"text":"7、深化法紀觀念凝聚國人向心國軍官兵肩負國人寄託直干戈以慰設計軍風紀律是軍力維繫重要的一環軍風紀律就是精神戰力本部持恆運用法紀宣導能量深化人員守法重計觀念並落實精神教育使官兵謹記軍人武德"},{"start":2880.347,"end":2891.882,"text":"奉行國家責任榮譽三大信念發揚忠貞氣節堅定為國使命同時規劃國防知性之旅走入校園等多元全民國防教育活動"},{"start":2893.599,"end":2911.545,"text":"進而贏得國人的信賴與支持從而凝聚軍民團結向心與堅定愛國信念即編列督查作業等預算13億6170萬元八、優化注用設施健全官兵照護國軍官兵戰備部分平假日全天候投入戰訓本務工作陸力堅守崗位"},{"start":2914.446,"end":2943.283,"text":"本部秉致力照護官兵與眷屬目標持續優化各項生活照護措施注用環境方面加速老舊營舍整建工作包含具有注用空間優化及滿足官兵住辦時需醫療照護方面推動醫院臨床及部隊衛情數位轉型與人工智慧發展使國軍醫療服務朝智慧化邁進並提升官兵戰場自救護救能力及戰場存活率"},{"start":2944.673,"end":2963.415,"text":"建置訓練機構持恆實施戰場救護擴訓（法律服務方面主動提供官兵和眷屬諮詢意見以及訴訟輔導服務有效保障合法權益心理輔導方面辦理國軍心理健康照護方案及心理健康宣導專案完善關懷輔導作為"},{"start":2965.197,"end":2973.264,"text":"教育官兵自我照顧及同胞互助等正確觀念．邊列設施修繕維護與管理等預算145億9253萬7千元請過事業預算邊列概況本部114年度預算結合施政重點與計劃核實邊列說明如後"},{"start":2984.878,"end":2990.341,"text":"一、稅務預算編列112億3,583萬7千元較113年度增加28億2,969萬4千元主要系增列外匯支息及以前年度軍購案退匯餘款繳庫數按來源別劃分既有罰款及賠償收入等五項請參閱二、稅出預算"},{"start":3008.387,"end":3011.25,"text":"編列4760億4383萬9千元較113年度增加415億6295萬4千元按計劃內容及性質區分公開及保密兩部分依預算結構劃分如後"},{"start":3023.752,"end":3026.975,"text":"人員維持編列1815億5833萬4千元較113年度增加35億3860萬2千元主要為人員心想保險各項補助一年期義務役及調整待遇等法定局域"},{"start":3040.049,"end":3054.444,"text":"作業維持編列一千四百八十六億九千零六十萬四千元其中公開部分編列一千三百九十五億六千三百四十萬六千元較一百一十三年度增加一百七十二億九千三百三十萬九千元"},{"start":3055.814,"end":3066.523,"text":"後勤維保維持各式主要武器裝備妥善彈藥及油料採購與庫儲管理並改善營區房舍生活設施等所需計1148億1528萬5千元通訊資訊辦理通訊電子及各項資訊系統管理維護電腦兵棋作業等作業所需計23億9637萬5千元"},{"start":3080.214,"end":3106.169,"text":"教育訓練辦理戰遠訓任務部隊訓練軍事教育動員準備教召訓練訓場整修及牧林經費等所需計一百億三百二十三萬七千元請過事業環境保護軍事行政及第一背景等計一百一十二億六千五百四十六萬一千元帶邊國安局預算公開部分計十億八千三百零四萬八千元"},{"start":3107.273,"end":3109.215,"text":"軍事投資編列1457億9490萬1千元其中公開部分編列1292億2116萬元較113年度增加327億4853萬元國內產制編列576億1015萬8千元持續計劃"},{"start":3128.666,"end":3137.15,"text":"依委制協議書及合約付款期程執行新一代輕型巡防艦第二階段原型艦籌艦及新式高級教訓機等126案即515億9020萬5千元新增計劃籌獲前艦國造第三階段後續艦籌艦及新型步槍等29案即60億1995萬3千元"},{"start":3152.68,"end":3180.33,"text":"對外採購編列705億9477萬8千元均為持續計劃系一發價書及合約付款期程執行魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統及高高空無人機等21案計705億9477萬8千元土地活化編列10億1622萬4千元配合政府社會住宅等重大政策及地方政府都市發展需求辦理土地釋出活化運用結與"},{"start":3183.846,"end":3209.943,"text":"114年度預算系因應當前敵情威脅結合防衛作戰構想及兵力整建計劃等要項審酌國防施政優先順序審慎規劃編列4760億4383萬9千元建構可視國防戰力達成防衛作戰時需以上報告敬請各位委員先進支持與指教謝謝副表一及副表二分別為稅入及稅出預算編列情形表請委員參閱以上報告"},{"start":3216.479,"end":3230.025,"text":"接續報告國軍生產及服務作業基金114年度預算案主席各位先進國軍生產及服務作業基金下轄生產醫療服務福利及文教軍人儲蓄富時供應等六個事業"},{"start":3240.529,"end":3264.317,"text":"主要任務為建立軍事裝備自主產製能量提供國軍完善醫療照護體系及休閒活動場域辦理國軍福利品配銷與推展國防文宣工作輔導官兵正向理財與儲蓄以及統籌國軍副食品購辦等業務各事業皆依其設置目的努力達成支援國防施政任務現僅就業務計劃及預算編列情形摘要報告如後"},{"start":3268.629,"end":3285.499,"text":"業務計劃概況本基金依業務屬性及各事業管理機構事權分工114年度營運目標如下依生產事業以發展國防自主軍品國造為目標建構武器裝備研發生產能量並精進國防工業產製效能與品質年度計劃生產兵工類產品171項請過次頁經理類產品12項測量類及製圖類產品2553項合計2736項"},{"start":3297.677,"end":3310.585,"text":"二、醫療事業配合政府醫療政策加強醫學研究提升國軍醫院醫療技術以提供國軍官兵眷屬與一般民眾醫療建構優質醫療照護年度計畫提供病患門診醫療服務628萬餘人次住院醫療服務186萬餘人日及病患膳食服務127萬餘人日"},{"start":3322.83,"end":3339.919,"text":"三、服務事業（提供官兵眷屬優質休閒活動環境（挑激身心及促進同袍情誼交流（年度計劃提供餐飲服務31萬餘人次（住宿服務2萬餘人次及球場服務9萬餘人次（四、福利及文教事業（"},{"start":3341.968,"end":3354.56,"text":"統籌國軍福利品供應配銷平穩官兵眷屬生活用品物資更正物價報導軍事演訓藥文及凝聚全民國防共識年度計劃提供福利品配銷4億3201萬元發行爆寬829萬餘份"},{"start":3359.565,"end":3363.188,"text":"五、軍人儲蓄事業．．辦理軍人優惠存款等業務．．輔導官兵正確理財及穩定經濟基礎．．以防範國軍財務失衡風險．．年度計劃辦理軍人儲蓄存款238億8千萬元六、複時供應事業．．"},{"start":3376.55,"end":3386.921,"text":"統籌國軍副食品採購及公配業務維護官兵飲食安全並擴大主動運補服務降低單位實行工作負荷年度計劃辦理國軍官兵副食品統籌購辦1億1535萬餘人次"},{"start":3390.985,"end":3398.407,"text":"預算編列情形一、預算收支業務收入404億3782萬3千元主要系產銷軍品銷貨收入國軍醫院各項醫療收入休閒設施與場租服務統籌配銷福利品及副食品供應等各項收入業務成本與費用393億7161萬1千元主要系產製軍品銷貨成本等請過次頁"},{"start":3418.952,"end":3436.478,"text":"醫療服務與用品等醫療成本提供休閒服務統籌供售福利品與副食品等各項成本以及各項管銷研發及訓練費用等業務外收入9億5244萬元主要系銀行存款利息收入附屬營運場所權利金收入及違約罰款等"},{"start":3438.866,"end":3447.542,"text":"業務外費用6億3063萬8千元主要系生產事業第205場光中營區土地污染整治相關費用年度剩餘13億8801萬4千元"},{"start":3450.933,"end":3468.224,"text":"二、輿促撥補本期剩餘十三億八千八百零一萬四千元加計前期未分配剩餘三十五億八千五百七十一萬九千元合計四十九億七千三百七十三萬三千元結繳空庫金額十五億元未分配剩餘三十四億七千三百"},{"start":3469.145,"end":3473.067,"text":"總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":3488.394,"end":3498.021,"text":"構建固定資產114年度固定資產建設改良擴充編列三十二億四千一百零四萬三千元主要是辦理新建醫療大樓專案計劃及營運時需之一般建築及設備更新"},{"start":3504.185,"end":3519.69,"text":"編列情形如後專案計劃十億兩千八百零九萬六千元系執行國軍臺中總醫院新建醫療大樓國軍三軍總醫院新建重症醫療大樓三軍總醫院北投分院門診中心新建工程"},{"start":3521.301,"end":3541.577,"text":"國軍高雄總醫院長照大樓新建工程國軍高雄總醫院岡山分院長照大樓新建工程山津總醫院基隆分院醫療大樓新建工程計劃山津總醫院澎湖分院放射腫瘤劑核子醫學中心建置計劃及國軍高雄總醫院急重症醫療大樓新建工程計劃等"},{"start":3543.697,"end":3548.401,"text":"一般建築及設備計畫22億1294萬7千元別列項目區分房屋及建築2826萬6千元主要系辦理生產工廠廠房整建工程請過失業"},{"start":3559.489,"end":3585.625,"text":"機械及設備二十億兩千三百九十九萬八千元主要系國軍醫院新增汰換醫療儀器設備及生產工廠構建軍品產製設備交通及運輸設備兩千八百七十七萬四千元主要系構置生產事業所需消防車及汰換醫院監視系統等設備雜項設備一億三千一百五十五萬元主要系新增汰換各事業所需冷暖氣機及營業設備等"},{"start":3589.432,"end":3615.233,"text":"結與（等基金以營運自主（自己自主為目標（堅實武器裝備（確保作戰效能（厚植國防自主能量（並健全部隊醫療照護（以及各項福利與復工服務（有效支援國防施政與戰備需求（敬請各位委員先進指教並鼎力支持（必使國軍生產及服務作業基金（各項任務順利推動（附表一為生福基金的預算概況表（請委員參閱報告完畢"},{"start":3623.918,"end":3641.672,"text":"國軍老舊眷村改建基金114年度預算案報告主席各位委員先進國軍老舊眷村改建基金以下稱本基金是依據民國85年公布之國軍老舊眷村改建條例以下稱眷改條例所設立"},{"start":3642.372,"end":3662.569,"text":"本基金設置的目的在加速更新國軍老舊眷村運用眷村土地新建住宅照顧原眷戶以及志願役現役官兵保存眷村文化及協助地方政府取得公共設施用地總計完成千建改建基地以及國眷宅86處"},{"start":3664.19,"end":3684.339,"text":"安置眷戶69353戶現緊急業務計劃以及預算編列的情形災藥報告如後一、業務計劃概況積極地去化漁屋跟店舖加速回收興建成本以及降低維護管理的支出"},{"start":3685.615,"end":3705.026,"text":"根據委請財政部國有財產署辦理臺北市崇仁新村等處的改建基地9戶店鋪標售作業以有效地益助本基金的收益另外計劃捷報臺南市二空新村等10戶的輔助購財、差額款、稅型、眷戶的安置工作"},{"start":3712.008,"end":3733.984,"text":"二、預算編列情形一、業務收入編列兩億兩千三百九十萬三千元主要系標售改建基地店舖之銷貨收入以及貸放原券戶優惠貸款利息收入等二、業務成本與費用編列一億兩千九百三十萬六千元"},{"start":3734.565,"end":3742.266,"text":"主要系任列標售改建基地店舖興建成本補捐助地方政府辦理眷村文化保存開辦費"},{"start":3743.632,"end":3772.086,"text":"以及捷報、輔助、原券戶、購載差額款等（三、業務外收入編列4億1581萬9千元主要系漁屋、店鋪、土地之租賃收入以及營運資金支息等（四、業務外費用編列3億3818萬8千元主要系列之舊有的房、券、營舍處理費"},{"start":3772.81,"end":3795.325,"text":"以及支應土地處理作業費不足款等五、年度剩餘前開收支相抵後即剩餘一億七千兩百二十二萬八千元三、結餘本基金執行國軍老舊眷村改建工作已據成效為了加速去化漁屋"},{"start":3795.845,"end":3812.715,"text":"活絡國內經濟改善都市景觀以及推動眷村文化保存工作將持續依照眷改計劃期程完成既定的任務敬請各位委員先進指教並且鼎力支持逼利施政目標順利達成謝謝"},{"start":3820.021,"end":3843.867,"text":"國防醫學院軍事教育基金114年度預算案報告主席各位委員先進國防醫學院軍事教育基金依軍事教育條例第21條之一規定設立基金收入來源用途投資項目範圍等事項準用國立大學校院校務基金設置條例相關規定"},{"start":3845.627,"end":3868.89,"text":"經行政院於111年4月13日合併本基金設置計劃書112年12月29日合併本基金管理及監督辦法具以執行本基金自籌收支保管運用之管監制度並循年度預算程序編制附屬單位預算送請大院審查"},{"start":3870.253,"end":3886.205,"text":"配合國家高等教育學術自主政策本基金自113年度新設立除政府循預算程序之撥款外增加自籌收入財源提升軍政與學教育品質及研究績效"},{"start":3887.446,"end":3915.793,"text":"促進校務多元發展培育優秀現代化軍醫人才有效支援國軍戰備人物先緊究業務計劃概況及預算編列情形災藥報告如後一、業務計劃概況本基金計劃辦理國防醫學院教學訓輔及研究發展業務114年度主要營運項目為質詢大學部及碩博士研究所之學員生"},{"start":3918.554,"end":3941.067,"text":"2241元教學任務請過次頁執行產官學界建交合作研究案455件持續推動落實全能教育深耕教學卓越強化生技研發拓展軍政與學及永續學校經營等營運目標二、預算編列情形如附表三"},{"start":3942.72,"end":3966.527,"text":"預算收支一、業務收入七億五千一百五十一萬九千元主要系教學研究補助收入建教合作收入學雜費收入其中屬政府補助收入四億一千三百九十六萬七千元屬自酬收入三億三千七百五十五萬兩千元二、業務成本與費用"},{"start":3968.127,"end":3995.934,"text":"編列8億4千024萬9千元主要系教學成本研究發展及訓練費用含資產折舊及攤銷等三、業務外收入編列3千142萬5千元屬自籌收入主要系受證收入飼養實驗動物收入實驗室代測收入各類場地設備使用租金收入及利息收入等"},{"start":3997.901,"end":4014.597,"text":"二、業務外費用編列2294萬元主要系管理宿舍場地設備支出及其他雜項業務支出等五、年度餘處前開收支相抵後發生短處數8024萬5千元主要系因資產折舊及攤銷增加所致"},{"start":4020.68,"end":4024.021,"text":"二、財務概況114年底預計資產總額4億3941萬3千元負債總額2億2752萬2千元淨值5億1189萬1千元"},{"start":4036.346,"end":4063.136,"text":"三、構建固定資產114年度固定資產建設改良編列一億五千七百七十七萬兩千元資金來源為政府補助一億四千九百四十八萬七千元自籌收入支應八百二十八萬五千元主要系改善軍政醫學教育設備汰換網路資訊基礎設施建置智慧教研設備"},{"start":4064.416,"end":4092.67,"text":"構置學校營運及建教合作所需教學研究設備編列情形如後專案計劃一億兩千五百五十一萬七千元依三軍總醫院暨國防醫學院一百一十二至一百一十六年充實軍政醫學設備案汰換無維修效益及預使用年限之教學研究設備改善軍政醫學教育品質及提升研發能量"},{"start":4093.87,"end":4109.9,"text":"編列機械設備一億一千六百五十三萬兩千元及雜項設備一百九十八萬五千元請過次頁國軍醫院軍政醫學網路設備系統提升案汰換與使用連線資資訊網路架構與基礎設施以建置智慧膠原設備編列機械及設備費七百萬元"},{"start":4118.925,"end":4124.889,"text":"二、一般建築及設備計劃3,225萬5千元（汰換學校營運基礎設備（高校生根計劃（創新教學設備與建教合作之教學研究設備（依資金來源編列政府補助編列2397萬元（"},{"start":4139.699,"end":4146.525,"text":"一、執行創新教學設備及彩色印表機構置編列機械級設備1576萬元二、辦理教學大樓、排風系統、學員森宿舍生活設施、會議室投螢幕"},{"start":4156.293,"end":4162.539,"text":"會議聽布幕升降及一化講桌等設備汰換編列雜項設備821萬元二、自籌編列828萬5千元辦理建交合作之設備儀器構置編列機械及設備823萬9千元及雜項設備46000元"},{"start":4177.273,"end":4200.681,"text":"三、結語本基金114年度除由政府預算補助外自籌收入較113年度成長約5.29%用以教學研究設施改善及校務運作積極培訓現代化軍醫及符合世界潮流健康照護人才並持續推動多元化經營提高自籌收入"},{"start":4201.841,"end":4218.877,"text":"擴充教育資源．．永續校務發展．．．懇請各位委員先進指教與支持．．必使本基金教學及研究任務順利推動．．請過次頁復表三為國防醫學院軍事教育基金預算概況表．．請委員參閱"},{"start":4225.48,"end":4246.118,"text":"國軍營舍及設施改建基金114年度預算案報告主席各位委員先進大家好軍備局局長報告本部為落實政府照顧國軍官兵政策於87年度經行政院核准成立國軍老舊營舍改建基金自101年度起"},{"start":4246.938,"end":4266.206,"text":"為有效運用國防資源擴大基金用途將一般軍事工程及設施預算納入本基金執行並更命為國軍營設及設施改憲基金以下稱本基金推展老舊營設及設施檢建工作改善官兵生活品質現緊舊業務計劃及預算編列情形摘要報告如後一"},{"start":4270.829,"end":4295.088,"text":"業務計劃概況一、第205場簽建專案計劃關於因應國家重大經濟建設配合高雄市多功能經貿園區都市發展規劃辦理營區騰浪藉市出營區收益益助營改基金作為205場簽建及機制重建所需以發揮最大經濟效益共創國家地方及國軍商業關於二、"},{"start":4296.169,"end":4316.961,"text":"先進工程委由高雄市政府代班114年持續辦理關乎營區工程施工建造及生產現機具採購等作業二、資安園區專案計劃關乎一、一財政部加強國有不動產活化運用計劃整合國安會資安辦公室行政會數位發展部及本部"},{"start":4318.297,"end":4337.343,"text":"支通電軍指揮部等單位於中信營區建置資安園區以統整國家資安防護能量達成資安暨國安之政策目標。（關於新建工程委由內政部國土管理署代辦114年度持續辦理工程施工及建造費用"},{"start":4338.243,"end":4357.564,"text":"二、三、老舊營舍整建計劃關於一（為優化官兵注辦環境及改善生活品質（落實照顧國軍政策（本部積極推動國軍老舊營舍整建（建造安全、舒適及功能實用化的營區（以提供官兵良好的訓練環境及休閒設施（"},{"start":4360.787,"end":4379.813,"text":"國保二、114年度即執行龍山營區新建工程等58案（均持續辦理工程施工及建造等作業（四、工程及設施整建計劃、國保一為配合國防戰備任務（有效運用國防資源自101年度起逐年編列經會辦理、整新（"},{"start":4382.188,"end":4399.052,"text":"建國軍工程及設施．．二、114年度即執行青天崗靶場興建工程等五案施工中事案規劃設計一案二、預算編列情形如附表示．．一、基金來源合計編列147億4735萬5000元．．一、財產收入"},{"start":4405.094,"end":4413.439,"text":"以處分不適用營地移交國產署辦理土地活化資權利金租金及其他財產及利息等收入計129億7894萬1千元關於政府撥入合計17億1204萬9千元一（"},{"start":4423.803,"end":4438.599,"text":"公庫撥款收入現金一、行政院核定農場綜合訓練場有償撥用款及資安園區公庫預注款即5億3千零64萬元請過夜二、政府其他撥入"},{"start":4440.869,"end":4466.377,"text":"轉賬不撥款依依據行政院99年指示和納本基金來源清徹之不動產均因透列總預算由本部與財政部國有財產署互編稅出稅入預算以轉賬不撥款方式累計土地存貨資產原114年度依行政院合併引改基金來源清徹即松南營區等17處土地及拆遷補償費"},{"start":4468.314,"end":4471.196,"text":"作價撥入款11億8140萬9千元關於其他收入罰款收入計5636萬5千元二、基金用途合計編類393億"},{"start":4482.386,"end":4498.012,"text":"一百二十六萬三千元關於第205場簽件專案計劃執行關乎大樹北紀中科院林園雲區分案編類45億三千九百零八萬一千元關於資安園區專案計劃執行資安園區專案一案編類十億一千七百萬元"},{"start":4503.221,"end":4508.587,"text":"三、老舊營舍整建計劃執行各單位老舊營舍搬遷及整建工程共58案編類311億8235萬4千元四、工程及設施整建計劃執行國軍工程及設施整建共5萬編類24億3324萬元"},{"start":4523.081,"end":4537.683,"text":"關於一般行政管理計畫執行本基金業務所需的營地委管人事行政等作業費及來源清澈內無法儲分值土地剔除作價數編列一億兩千九百五十八萬八千元"},{"start":4538.544,"end":4554.614,"text":"三、年度轉出基金來源及用途相抵後即短促245億5390萬8千元短促由以前年度基金的餘額來調整三、結與此行完善官兵照顧本部施政重點"},{"start":4555.775,"end":4570.827,"text":"將持續加強國軍老舊營舍整建規劃及設施改建工作提供官兵良好工作環境及生活設施敬請各位委員先進指教並鼎力支持必使國軍營舍及設施整建基金業務順利推動謝謝副表請參閱報告完畢"},{"start":4575.199,"end":4590.505,"text":"好謝謝我們準備局長請回好接下來公開報告結束我們接下來進行的是秘密會議進行機密報告那我們即將進行清場那本席跟大家宣告一下就是說我們待會全部呢"},{"start":4592.125,"end":4616.133,"text":"這個由前門前門是靠近我這一側前門出場那參與秘密會議的人員由後門入場通過偵測後檢查再進入那因為待會我們有一小段時間要請立法院警衛隊進行我們內部的掃描以及這個保防相關的檢查大概是10分鐘以內大概是10分鐘以內各位媒體或者各位官員"},{"start":4616.853,"end":4626.342,"text":"你該抓一個10分鐘以內的時間我們立法院的警衛隊現在有這個裝備要進來做相關的保防這個掃描那我們現在開始清場謝謝"},{"start":5771.971,"end":5790.023,"text":"好,我們現在開始進行公開質詢那請羅美玲委員上台詢答謝謝主席,有請顧部長來,部長請是,羅委員好"},{"start":5801.734,"end":5823.307,"text":"部長早部長我們除了這個國防部年度預算稅出編列書4760億之外呢其實我們還有這個海空戰力提升計劃更新新式的這個戰機的這個採購加起來的特別預算共編列了904億另外呢我們還有非營業特種基金806億加起來是6470億元那是佔了114年居"},{"start":5830.172,"end":5857.814,"text":"的這個預估值26.4兆元之比例大概是2.45%好那像這幾年呢其實我們都有看到就是說我們的這個國際的友人一直都有建議說其實我們應該把我們的國防預算預算呢佔GDP比例應該是提升到3%那其實在90年代初期的時候兩岸軍力開始失衡美方就已經這麼"},{"start":5858.575,"end":5863.698,"text":"這麽來建議了那我們看到這個左邊的圖表我們可以看到說其實這個百分之三的這個比例呢像過去我們看到的是在貶政府時代曾經有達到這個目標民國93年民國96年97年我們都有看到有這個預算呢有達到這個目標可是這個預算呢送到國會審查之後就遭到這個刪減其實法定預算始終是沒有辦法達標的"},{"start":5888.474,"end":5913.322,"text":"近年臺海局勢日益緊張,美方和國際智庫還是持續呼籲臺灣應該提高國防預算到GDP佔比的3%以上甚至還有人提到說應該要到5%以上所以我想請問我們的部長在美方和國際盟友的期待之下我們是不是有具體的規劃往3%或是5%的目標來做前景"},{"start":5918.078,"end":5935.197,"text":"我想這個還是要依我們的這個實際的這個作戰的一個需要那我想我們主要還是著重在四個面向就是建構不對稱戰力然後強化我們的作戰韌性然後也"},{"start":5935.97,"end":5956.543,"text":"提升我們的後備戰略以及灰色地帶的運輸這四個面向然後根據我們的這個實際的需求那因為臺美雙方過去以來已經有一個制度性的一個軍事交流合作的一個機制那我們通常對於這樣子的一個"},{"start":5958.644,"end":5983.659,"text":"因為我們籌貨的管道有包括軍購商購跟我們自主的這個生產的那在這個上面有關跟美國軍購的這個部分我們通常都會循這個機制來跟美方進行溝通那溝通之後確認就是說他願意供售那我們再提出來這個我們的相關的這個"},{"start":5985.521,"end":5994.651,"text":"預算那經過立法院同意之後然後再正式向美方提出那所以如果說在"},{"start":5996.065,"end":6020.133,"text":"穩健的成長這一件事情我覺得是可以來看得到的因為我們過去這個三年來平均成長都到達8%但是如果你單看GDP的話它有一個問題就是說因為GDP成長的速度也相當的快像如果統計過去如果以三年來講的話GDP成長的比例應該會超過5個%"},{"start":6022.774,"end":6040.751,"text":"超過5%以上所以如果單以GDP來講的話我們成長平均成長的這個比例要超過GDP成長比例我們8%那GDP成長也許是5啊6啊或者是那但是我們所以"},{"start":6041.792,"end":6064.753,"text":"我們有沒有辦法趕得上這個GDP的3%這一件事情我覺得還是要根據我們的實際的作戰的一個需要這個我們根據我們的防衛的一個需要來檢視剛剛我講的那個四個重要的一個面向四個要項來做我"},{"start":6065.533,"end":6090.349,"text":"我現在沒有辦法設定一個答案說我們是不是能夠達到3%或者是多少但是我們應該會朝著穩健成長的角度來進行那我覺得這一個部分我們會尋這一個現在既有的這個制度化的這個軍事交流合作的機制來跟美方未來的川普政府來做這樣的溝通這樣子"},{"start":6092.45,"end":6106.686,"text":"OK部長就是說看我們所需的實際上需求我們來做編列再來就是還是會朝穩定來成長這部分這個目標來前進嘛 對不對那會不會到3%就看我們到時候我們實際上的需求嘛"},{"start":6109.548,"end":6128.92,"text":"這次我們中央政府總預算案是最初是在提升那我們的國防預算編列也是創了這個新高可是我們來看左邊這個圖我們可以看到就是說雖然是說我們的國防預算編列是創新高可是在預算佔比方面其實還是有稍微下降了一點點"},{"start":6130.646,"end":6131.828,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":6145.766,"end":6173.14,"text":"如果看到過去,我們不看總預算的編列數的話當然看占比,我們看到有稍微下降了一點點再來還有我們總體的國防預算不斷地攀升其實其中我們還有特別預算案可是我們看到特別預算案在115年就要編列來完整如果116年我們有相關的武器裝備要採購的話我們會不會提出新的特別預算案"},{"start":6175.269,"end":6183.497,"text":"現在就是說115年度還有602億的一個特別預算那今年的話應該是904億"},{"start":6190.871,"end":6209.41,"text":"那所以確實如委員所講的就是說在116年開始沒有這個特別預算的情況之下那我們如果都把它編入年度預算的話那年度預算的占比確實會提高那會排擠到其他的這個"},{"start":6210.481,"end":6229.839,"text":"那就是在要就這個整體財政的規劃來看那特別預算的要不要編列的話這個可能如果說國防部有這個規劃還需要大院的支持就是說我們要提出一個特別預算案的話"},{"start":6230.359,"end":6231.799,"text":"一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、審查一、"},{"start":6247.225,"end":6265.162,"text":"如果你沒有提出特別預算案的話當然你把它歸入到公務預算當然會排擠到公務預算的所以我現在只能夠說我們沒有辦法去排除由這個特別預算的這個可能性我在這裡能夠表但是我們現在還沒有一個定案的一個規劃這樣子"},{"start":6272.664,"end":6292.909,"text":"因為主要還是要大院能夠支持這樣的一個特別預算案的提出那特別預算案提出我想應該也要有一定的規劃不然的話一個詳細的一個規劃所以才能夠得到這個大院的支持因為時間的關係本期還有其他的問題就留待這個我們審預算的時候那我再來提問以上謝謝"},{"start":6295.031,"end":6300.182,"text":"謝謝羅美琳委員各位請回接下來進行詢答的委員是陳永康委員"},{"start":6332.664,"end":6344.036,"text":"主席有請顧部長部長請今天聽取了重大的建軍計劃跟強化韌性這裡面在報告的"},{"start":6354.141,"end":6366.426,"text":"第二頁的重點談到了三個重大的軍售正好是三個軍種各佔一個其中這一個就是遠程精準火力打擊的系統M142海馬斯"},{"start":6368.3,"end":6382.971,"text":"二、海軍魚叉飛彈防衛系統．．案機CDCM、RGM-84L以及空軍高空無人機這三個重大軍售案在交貨以後完成戰備但分屬三個軍種"},{"start":6386.193,"end":6400.851,"text":"請教部長在整體運用構想上如何納入C4ISR有關於目獲目標分配目標的損害判別這個整合系統我們國軍能不能國內的發展配合裝備的獲得"},{"start":6404.285,"end":6433.585,"text":"我們現在執管的這個系統就現在正在進行這個研議當中那個我想委員也一直在關切我們陸軍用的是UTM那個海空軍用的是那個WGS84那就這個兩個部分如何進行一個有效的整合現在也正在進行這個討論當中那我想應該是可以來進行"},{"start":6434.225,"end":6441.149,"text":"我們希望裝備獲得以後發揮戰力的時間不要因為國內主管系統比較慢而延宕了讓他的系統無法整合發揮這個是我們提出的重點"},{"start":6458.039,"end":6469.272,"text":"我們已經昨天之前就剛好就已經在做這樣的準備我想應該是應該是沒有可以整合沒有問題"},{"start":6472.479,"end":6496.374,"text":"這個月的12號到17號剛好在珠海航展就是中國大陸的航空航天博物展他除了邀請各國尤其是俄羅斯把他的先進武器裝備飛機海上展具他這次推出了一個他實際上是反無人系統這個系統等於說把共同圖像COP"},{"start":6497.615,"end":6499.316,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":6513.183,"end":6540.074,"text":"他的能量非常強大那這個呢對我們中科院來講不管是借鏡或者是挑戰這是一個值得參考的我下一頁特別做出來尤其是我們現在民間廠商做出的無人機交給軍中尤其是陸軍的同仁的基層單位在用他對這個飛機的操作性能以及回收回來的訊息影像有沒有辦法整合"},{"start":6541.074,"end":6555.182,"text":"這裏面因為它的開發單位是中國航天對我們來講相對的就是國家中山科學研究院它的角色跟它是相同的所以它現在看看這個系統裏面的圖像我們特別講它的目的"},{"start":6556.42,"end":6560.501,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":6578.653,"end":6606.343,"text":"為行新型的飛彈雷射武器軟砂硬砂同步整合那對於目標這個源頭訊號源不同他要做驗證那剛才我之前跟這個院長有提到我們要把ROE要納入這個系統因為這裡面就是戰務令就是授權長官的責任承擔以及下屬任務受領那個時候如果沒有ROEman in the loop on the loop"},{"start":6607.403,"end":6624.37,"text":"這個時候再回頭請示是來不及的那麼他的能量管制能量非常大處理目標非常大這個是因為他這兩天在珠海展已經出來了是不是這個參考的我們請院長做一個回應因為這個值得我們做借鏡甚至要挑戰超越"},{"start":6624.946,"end":6647.318,"text":"我很簡短的跟委員回應這裏面包含兩個挑戰第一個就是不同網路中間怎麼去安全的去傳遞資訊流那這個部分我們已經克服了我們會引進後量子加密的技術來去做最有效的資訊流的傳遞所以跨網界階的部分不會有問題第二個部分就是ROE輸入的問題因為ROE會牽涉到智慧決策的COA"},{"start":6648.959,"end":6671.569,"text":"你ROE輸入的不正確你出來的行動方案就不會是這最明確最正確的行動方案那有關ROE輸入部分這個部分我們還要對我們部隊在做再教育那我們也希望能夠引進類似相關的經驗能夠讓部隊去授課接受這樣的訓練輸入最精準的ROE我們才能去做最正確的智慧決策"},{"start":6673.786,"end":6702.883,"text":"最後提醒一個就是這種先進武器運用導入的概念我們希望在國防大學的課程要及早納入以上 謝謝對 我們現在也跟廣東大學正在來進行研討讓他們這些教官們都能夠吸取最新的我們的不管是戰術戰法還有這些相關的這些應該有的觀念來教導這些資產學員或戰員的這些謝謝各位大家共同努力"},{"start":6704.892,"end":6730.009,"text":"好謝謝陳永康委員你的腿也保重好接下來我們進行詢答的委員是黃仁委員謝謝主席有請顧部長來部長請"},{"start":6738.214,"end":6764.469,"text":"是,黃委員好部長好那有關於明年度的總預算終於復為了比過往晚了大約大概兩個月那請問部長對於國慶的戰備、整備是否有造成影響那國慶這一段時間是否因為預算沒有復為而停止信念停止這一些進度請回答"},{"start":6765.969,"end":6788.918,"text":"我想因為今年是明年還沒到今年是編明年的預算所以我想如果預算沒有辦法如期通過的話當然對明年的我們的戰備準備會有比較大的影響那今年的話當然我們希望能夠如期的能夠來完成預算那就不會對明年的戰備準備造成影響我想不會造成因為"},{"start":6790.086,"end":6815.478,"text":"因為這個總預算裡面是有三項第一個是禁法補償第二個就是我們的公糧收購包含我們的醫務醫療的這個部分而已另外80%以上都在進行而且是合法的進行怎麼會有影響所以很多的誤解都造成了所以要你說明我們"},{"start":6816.741,"end":6831.559,"text":"負為這個部分會影響到總預算國防的總預算的進度和進行和停止訓練所以這個部分我覺得你再說清楚好不好我剛已經說了就是說"},{"start":6833.517,"end":6834.537,"text":"既有進行的不可能會因為"},{"start":6855.922,"end":6882.557,"text":"總預算的因素而停止就是跟這個持續跟部長講得清楚沒有任何在尤其是國軍的運作裡面不可能因為預算而停止訓練包含既有的進度以上跟你來說明那第二個是國防國防預算在GDP的比例我們現有的國防預算"},{"start":6884.258,"end":6912.784,"text":"比例應該要提高我們GDP的比例是否要提高因為我們從我們在美國總統的選舉之後之前就提出未來如果川普能夠當選要對我們台灣進行進行保護費那我們現在有很多的疑慮第一個國防的預算是不是提高"},{"start":6914.057,"end":6928.21,"text":"還是要按照他們所說的提高5%或者是10%對我們整個的國金戰備包含我們的總預算的比例會有沒有影響部長你來回答"},{"start":6929.653,"end":6949.103,"text":"我剛剛就羅委員的問題我也已經回答了我們還是會依照我們的這個敵情的威脅我們作戰的實際的需要然後根據剛剛我提到的建構不對稱戰力提升防衛韌性強化後備戰力及灰色印組等幾個要項"},{"start":6951.165,"end":6967.966,"text":"來透過既有的這一個跟美方的這一個交流的機制來提出如果我們認為是需要向美方來採購的話那我們這個軍購的這個項目要跟美方做個溝通那至於因為這樣子的情況之下那麼會提升"},{"start":6968.947,"end":6989.009,"text":"到多少我現在沒有辦法給出一個一定的答案因為我們還要看整個整體的國家財政預渡那我想依照過去3年來我們的平均成長都在8%左右所以我們可以預期應該還是國防預算還是可以穩健的來成長來強化我們自我衡量的能力以及展現我們的決心"},{"start":6990.421,"end":7016.74,"text":"我們國防部我們的主計局長謝其賢中將也都表示國防預算能夠佔GDP的3%為目標另外當然美國川普的他上一任期的國家安全顧問歐布萊恩曾經在我國外國防支出的增加要到GDP的5%那"},{"start":7019.68,"end":7029.446,"text":"這樣一說對於我們的整個的財政就會影響到而且另外我特別提出來這個部分是我們"},{"start":7031.564,"end":7055.426,"text":"本席想知道國防部的想法到底國防預算未來會增加多少還是受到美國的壓力本席提供一份在斯德哥爾摩國際和平研究所裡面所提出有關於2023年世界軍事支出的這個趨勢的報告其中2023年"},{"start":7057.047,"end":7061.893,"text":"各國軍事支出佔GDP的比例超過3%的國家由一美國3.4%二國5.9%沙烏地阿拉伯7.1%烏克蘭37%"},{"start":7075.029,"end":7097.737,"text":"波蘭3.8%以色列5.3%阿爾及利亞8.2%科威特4.9%希臘3.2%阿曼5.4%以全世界的平均為2.3和我國現有的規模差不多但是這一些比如說俄國"},{"start":7099.585,"end":7125.235,"text":"二國就是一個戰事的國家那另外以色列也是一個戰事的國家尤其是烏克蘭那動盪的國家裡面是阿爾及利亞包含阿曼這個國家裡面他們都是在超過5%我們國內並沒有任何的動盪或是在戰備當中戰爭當中我們有必要提升5%嗎你說"},{"start":7128.241,"end":7150.506,"text":"跟委員報告我剛還是講是說我們國防部的立場還是期待這個光預算能夠穩健的成長但是我沒有辦法現在給委員一個數字說我們一定能夠占到GPP的多少那剛剛也提到就是說今年明年114年度編的裡面還有特別預算904億"},{"start":7152.046,"end":7165.43,"text":"一百一十五年還有六百九十二億那到了一百一十六年的時候呢這個特別預算就沒有了那如果從這個絕對值來看的話那我們應該有比較大的預度來進行比較相關的這個"},{"start":7174.793,"end":7181.544,"text":"採購我們所需要我剛剛提到了幾個面向的一些這個作為"},{"start":7183.381,"end":7206.792,"text":"那但是在這個部分如果都放在年度預算的話會不會擠壓到這個整體的這個行政院的預算我們這個時候就要考慮現在大概是佔國防預算是佔15%多這個大概是三年差不多都是這樣的一個比例那我們到底能夠佔到整體的預算的是多少這個部分我們還要跟主席總處來商量"},{"start":7207.432,"end":7228.682,"text":"那所以我剛剛也提到了就是說如果大家都有共識要來就這些相關我們符合我們防衛作戰需要的這些武器來編列特別預算的話我們也不會排除如果能夠獲得大院的支持的話那這樣有可能就一方面可以穩健的增加我們的國防預算一方面不會排擠到"},{"start":7229.455,"end":7246.113,"text":"這個整體的財政預算那這個部分我們會來擬議因為我們今天我們非常擔心的是什麼因為美國會對我們台灣會不會有其他的施加的壓力按照我們過去的平均值"},{"start":7246.954,"end":7276.255,"text":"今年度的國防預算占總體的GDP的百分之二十二點三八二點三八整體規模為六千零六億元那第二個是明年的國防預算占總體的GDP的百分之二點四五在總體的規模是六千四百七十億所以這個就是我們現在拉到這樣的一個"},{"start":7277.516,"end":7289.232,"text":"已經算是最高的一個總預算那如果在未來因美國的壓力的話會不會有動盪到我們整個國防預算的提升"},{"start":7291.033,"end":7319.813,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們還是會按我們實際的需求來做有關我們的人員維持會由於義務益的增加我們人員維持會我們預估應該也會有一定的增加那我們作業維持會也是會增加所以如果有這樣子的一個預度的話那軍事投資的部分在我們實際需求之下我們也能夠有一個穩健的成長的話所以我們國防預算應該還是會期待有一定程度的一個增長"},{"start":7320.493,"end":7341.25,"text":"控管希望能夠這個比例一定要保持這樣的一個比例我想這就是一個國人關切的好不好應該都是要花在這個我們實際的需要上面這樣子好 謝謝部長請回喔 謝謝防人委員那接下來請王定宇委員 謝謝"},{"start":7353.759,"end":7356.56,"text":"馬雲主席顧部長部長早川普剛才稍早就已經宣布他新任的國防部長是赫格賽斯彼得赫格賽斯彼得赫格賽斯我們一般外界看到他是一個年輕的福斯新聞網的記者"},{"start":7381.104,"end":7405.813,"text":"那他本身跟軍方的歷練是在國民警衛隊那曾經參加過阿富汗啦或者是關塔納摩灣這些戰爭伊拉克等等所以他是一個戰鬥的步兵那本身他也是普林斯頓大學哈佛大學碩士學位那這一個新任的國防部長"},{"start":7406.713,"end":7421.747,"text":"我不會問說你有沒有對他有所認識因為在他任命之前我還沒有看到有人猜到他的所以就部長未來跟美國的國防部的互動跟這個新的部長我第一個要請教就是部長你本身服役的時候是擔任什麼職務"},{"start":7422.987,"end":7445.822,"text":"我是運輸牌牌長你是牌長你知道為什麼要問嗎我前兩天還在媒體在那個網路上看到有人說你是沒有當過兵的在當國防部長沒有就預官考到運輸運輸牌牌長以前退下來可以去開火車你去當你去當那個律師跟委員報告我這個運輸牌是很特殊的是陸軍唯一的一個傳播營"},{"start":7447.542,"end":7475.361,"text":"傳播營運輸牌傳播營因為那時候馬祖沒有港口沒有機場所以要從楊字澳驅逐艦下來做我們那個開口笑的那個是LCM然後去搶探登陸我是屬於那個部隊的所以那個是兔到寶的部隊不過因為你本身也有服役的經驗那這位赫格賽斯新任的部長他最重要的任務就是俄烏戰爭中東衝突台海"},{"start":7476.363,"end":7483.524,"text":"那我是不是先請教你本身對這個美國國防部新任部長終於任命出來了你有什麼看法"},{"start":7484.366,"end":7512.315,"text":"我看到相關的資料那個他相當年輕嘛1980年40來歲才40幾歲吧對不到50歲那我看到是川普在這個推他的時候呢說明他是美國優先的這個強烈支持者他是Team Mega的成員之一是那我想我在這邊特別提出一個觀點就是說"},{"start":7513.215,"end":7540.674,"text":"我覺得我們美台有一個共同的基本利益就是說絕不容許再有在俄烏戰爭之外以東的以以哈的這個衝突之外在台海的這個地區再有發生戰事或者是任何的衝突我覺得這個是非常符合美國的利益也同時符合台灣的利益所以台美雙方有一個共同的基本利益那如何來確保這樣子的一個台海和平穩定現狀的維持"},{"start":7543.175,"end":7571.694,"text":"我覺得這是我們應該有的一個共同基礎點在這個基礎點出發我們就可以得到一個共同能夠跟這個國防部也好有一個共同的想法共同的利益那就會有對話的基礎所以不僅僅是要打贏戰爭更根本的是嚇阻戰爭的發生所以我接下來就要問我剛才看到幾位同仁都問到預算規模的問題當然每個國家的經濟量體不同GDP到幾%"},{"start":7573.075,"end":7598.304,"text":"代表的金額像有一些數據看起來5%、9%可他國家的經濟量體小哪怕增加到那個%數那個金額也不大像日本他今年的預算就來到兩兆台幣那兩兆台幣他其實增加一點點以他的經濟量體他的額度就增加相當多所以當然我們期待我們國防預算的佔比可以提高目前是來到2.5%但也也因為這幾年台灣的經濟總體經濟不錯所以我們的經濟量體放大"},{"start":7602.185,"end":7613.611,"text":"所以現在的2.5%跟以前的2.5%金額規模其實差別相當大所以就來到第二個命題就是預算增加不是就安全預算增加要用在哪裡"},{"start":7614.967,"end":7638.898,"text":"這是很重要的我剛剛看部長有稍微回答到這一點像我們新增裝備我們的軍事投資你增加一個軍事投資一定要先預想這個軍事投資在保固期過了之後以後作為費會不會吃掉了我這個軍總所有的作業維持費或者我的人員訓練後續人員的補上所以我是不是請部長簡短對於我們明年度的國防預算來到2.5%6千多億"},{"start":7640.999,"end":7667.649,"text":"那當然我們現在僭建在SAAT要等到SAAT測試完之後才有後續那我們明年後年是我們軍事投資付款的高峰期那也許就在明年底後年之後可以騰出手來可以有所增加你有沒有什麼樣的期待按照目標我們國家的國防預算希望至少達到3%以上還是如同你剛才一直在回答就是我沒有計畫我就是按照目標往前走"},{"start":7668.149,"end":7688.423,"text":"那我這邊要多一個命題如果重要的盟友要求看到數據的呈現的時候你本身的態度是什麼比如說美國希望台灣的預算佔比國防預算佔比你不要說5%、10%先到3%再說如果做出這樣要求的時候身為國防部長你的看法是什麼"},{"start":7688.956,"end":7718.385,"text":"那我很簡單如果說美國要跟我做這樣的對話的時候我會問說這個武器裝備我們現在有兩個兩個我剛剛講四個面向如果你把它簡單區分成兩個面向第一個就是平時的時候我們要應付灰色地帶的威脅那我們應付灰色地帶的威脅現在中共跟我們打消耗戰那我們還是要有一些常規性的一些載台來應對這個灰色地帶那如何有效的應對灰色地帶這可能是一個命題我們要跟美國好好的溝通"},{"start":7719.025,"end":7744.586,"text":"那在暫時的時候要用什麼樣子的一個國土防衛作戰的概念我之前也提過我們現在不但提出削弱戰略這些等等那如何來拒止這個中國的這個登陸的成功那這個就是我們的一個要有效作為那如何哪一方面的武器是最有效能夠來拒止中國的登陸的行動能夠成功這一個部分就是我們應該要美國跟溝通的也就是說"},{"start":7745.427,"end":7768.099,"text":"我們會穩健成長但是我們要跟美國溝通什麼樣的武器才是一個有效的在我們這個國土防衛作戰在戰協我剛聽你這樣講就是說我在平時面對威脅不管它叫灰色地帶威脅或叫什麼威脅我平時會有我軍事的力量的展現去維持國家至少我們國界的安全嘛"},{"start":7768.619,"end":7785.918,"text":"對我們的情節能力量我們的常規在暫時的時候我要去怎麼樣保護自己的國家嘛那甚至於在平時的投資不是為了打敗是為了嚇阻戰爭的發生是所以如果美國提出這樣的話我們就會提出我們應該要談的東西所以這最近不是"},{"start":7786.539,"end":7806.586,"text":"金融時報報了一個菜單出來我看了那個我覺得那個菜單是有待商榷因為美國光那個10艘淘汰下來的軍艦要賣人家美國現在手上沒有那麼多淘汰的軍艦但是裡面有提到E2D提到F35提到這些東西未來如果在GDP"},{"start":7807.406,"end":7835.784,"text":"必須因應調高的時候我們平時的嚇阻性的載台因應灰色地帶的載台跟暫時要保衛國家的要讓敵人無法登陸作戰成功的東西那個金融時報報出來的東西是不是我們要的跟委員報告我覺得我沒有辦法對金融時報報道的加以做具體的一個評論因為我看"},{"start":7837.077,"end":7856.842,"text":"這個 有些報導所講的 我不認為是我是覺得有帶上去啦 裡面有些數字但我想依照我們台美之間的默契我們對於具體的武器裝備我們需要籌購的我想美國在公開智慧國會之前我們都不會 原力都不會對個別的武器裝備我們需要籌購的部分來加以評論這個還要請委員能夠諒解"},{"start":7858.962,"end":7887.263,"text":"我了解我最後一分鐘我今天看到媒體報導我其實蠻高興的就是有關軍人撫恤條例部分條文修正案努力了三年快四年2020年那時候是因為我們一個操演然後那個阿兵哥從焦州上面翻覆然後有些過世了你知道我們我們的第一線的軍事官兵都很年輕所以如果結婚的話孩子都還小那我們正常的"},{"start":7890.214,"end":7909.645,"text":"復續、軍保、正常的給付本來就有但後來發現越基層的士官兵他的復續金額就偏低所以那當時本席就提出對他未成年子女應該要給予他照顧他就是你為國家犧牲我們不希望發生意外有一天意外發生了你的孩子國家會幫你照顧好"},{"start":7910.685,"end":7931.897,"text":"這個態度開始去修這個法所以那個歷程從2020年10月6號然後一直到2023年5月23號三讀通過那這一次裡面有提到我看到媒體報導在我們海湖潛艦六名官兵落水三名失蹤其中失蹤的士官他的兩名孩子還在未成年我們將可以照顧他所以未來因為作戰"},{"start":7932.697,"end":7961.502,"text":"不信因公殉職的孩子每個月我們可以有兩萬五照顧到他成年如果是演訓不信因公殉職的孩子每個月兩萬照顧到成年如果是天然救災因公殉職的每個月一萬五照顧到他成年這個是在既有撫恤以外增加的所以這是一個好消息我們增加照顧但是我希望部長思考看看像我們空軍有一位飛官他結婚沒多久孩子還未成年他的飛機"},{"start":7963.12,"end":7985.695,"text":"就前幾年吶掉到海裡面去了那也因為我們這個法令通過的時間沒有照顧到有一些在公告實施之前的所以我最後這個到這個未必說請部長回答就是說我是希望如果我們在過去審視因為演訓因為這三個理由如果他的孩子現在還未成年還在讀大學還是一個小寶寶的時候"},{"start":7987.316,"end":8014.625,"text":"如果他沒有在這範圍內我們是不是想辦法用這樣子的比照這樣子來照顧他們讓他在天之靈對部隊照顧他的妻子兒女感到放心這一點怎麼樣我們請志願室是委員好抱歉我是志願室司長那個應該是可以納入就是何序的時間從會追溯到去年的7月1號對那個是開始發的嘛那如果他發生事故的時間在去年7月1號之前的有沒有納入"},{"start":8016.644,"end":8033.539,"text":"可以檢討納入只差在核序的時間而已他從起點開始領他不能說以前沒有法律可以補領我意思說他如果還未成年是不是從去年開始他就可以支領這一筆哪怕事故發生在五年前七年前都可以納入起領的時間"},{"start":8034.96,"end":8035.16,"text":"馬文君委員"},{"start":8065.985,"end":8069.206,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請顧部長來,部長請部長好,部長我記得之前有詢問過快起專案的部分我想請教快起專案是執行哪一個?什麼樣的內容?它的預算有多少?期程是多久?"},{"start":8089.933,"end":8097.338,"text":"會計專案好像是列入機密是吧還是（沒關係這個會計專案請部長回答好不好你們先在旁邊2024年3月已經"},{"start":8103.009,"end":8119.199,"text":"我要請部長回答我們會特別這樣子一定是有用意的所以如果要在旁邊講然後等一下大概我們希望可以準備的更周全一點那在這會期專案雖然是機密可是在2024年3月4號聯合報還有2024年4月27號自由時報2024年5月17號上報"},{"start":8127.044,"end":8154.972,"text":"5月18號上報其實都有登過快起專案而且內容也非常的詳細包括他的預算金額執行的期程還有包括他的內容等等所以我想要請教部長您是不是知道快起專案執行的是什麼應該就是一個無人艇的一個他在期程多久期程應該是113到114吧那預算金額大概多少"},{"start":8155.971,"end":8164.355,"text":"預算的金額是應該這可以講嗎預算金額報紙我剛剛念了報紙通通寫了而且金額一致不差"},{"start":8166.351,"end":8186.244,"text":"所以我現在為什麼要特別這樣請教部長這個是因為我之前已經問過了所以也許在旁邊提示之下還有上次問過的印象部長可以很清楚的知道可是因為我們之前有提過過去我們所有的委員國防外交的委員其實都可以拿到我們的"},{"start":8186.964,"end":8190.185,"text":"檢疫本的機密的這個內容因為沒有人可以記得起來而且你用的都是代號我們不知道他為什麼要用這樣的方式這樣大家要怎麼監督或者大家有什麼疑問的時候尤其像朝偉這一次在"},{"start":8202.449,"end":8205.431,"text":"提案時間短短一個禮拜我們今天問完他可能不到一個禮拜的時間就要寫出來我覺得預算要這麼高的情況之下是有點強人所難所以在這裡還是要特別提出雖然他列在機密裡面可是"},{"start":8222.728,"end":8239.98,"text":"今天我們就用媒體已經披露出來的來請教部長因為我記得上一次問過以後部長您說要下去檢討還要瞭解看看嘛那快起專案這個是委中科院研製的他主要就是遙控4艘攻擊無人艇"},{"start":8241.481,"end":8244.965,"text":"總金額8億1200萬其中載台部分2億5000多萬還有導控系統中科院執行大概會5億多因為扣掉的話那載台部分我們一直說它的價格高的離譜部長您是不是在你了解以後你覺得有什麼樣要說明的嗎"},{"start":8263.598,"end":8291.496,"text":"他高達兩億五千七百萬這個在烏克蘭他已經有實戰經驗擊沉了俄羅斯的船艦他的造價才六百多萬甚至如果以他現在最新型的可以可能有逆中功能他是用橡膠材質的他的造價才兩百多萬可是我們光是載台就要六千四百萬我想要請教部長您了解以後你覺得這是合理的嗎"},{"start":8292.615,"end":8292.635,"text":"部長"},{"start":8309.435,"end":8329.403,"text":"這個沒有 量產的時候我們不知道你可以壓低多少可是現階段他沒有太大的一個難度的情況之下因為隆德也造過很多船艦啊他過去不是沒有經驗這一艘就要6400萬因為我們為什麼要造無人機跟無人艇就是它是自殺式的它就是要便宜"},{"start":8330.743,"end":8330.763,"text":"院長﹖"},{"start":8357.268,"end":8362.569,"text":"委員因為它是原型它要包含它的設計費用在裡面那當然後面料產就會降低了院長它有什麼設計因為這個是一個全新的構型您告訴我它有什麼設計無人靶船包括你的勇武專案裡面的無人靶船都已經曾經做過了我們的這種靶船我們台灣過去不是最會造遊艇嗎"},{"start":8384.553,"end":8394.161,"text":"龍德、中信或者甚至台船他們造這種船會有很困難嗎可是你的造價是人家的八倍十倍這是非常離譜再加上這是載台的部分而已喔他全案高達八億多如果平均下來一台要兩億多而不是六千四百萬欸他兩億多裡面是什麼中科院"},{"start":8405.39,"end":8410.594,"text":"他裏面的導控系統過去我看他們一項因為也是報紙燈的就是他的跳屏式干擾衛星導航或者紅外線感應進行辨識避障系統或者鎖定目標以後的終端導引以及自動化執行精確攻擊目標等等這個都在我們過去的"},{"start":8426.127,"end":8437.607,"text":"所有的一些中科院的一個研發案裡面都已經有過技術或者已經都編過預算了這個我們甚至在這一次還編了5億多這是合理的嗎"},{"start":8439.4,"end":8457.905,"text":"委員因為我們必須要把很多已經有的技術去整合整合到這個裡面來院長那是給不知道的人聽的你所謂的整合你的無人機怎麼整合的無人機跟無人艇的差異在哪裡今天你不僅造價非常的高昂因為它是很普通的一些船體而已"},{"start":8459.105,"end":8463.346,"text":"它是自殺式的攻擊你們給的資料全部都列在裡面的那個都是我們原來有的這個部分我們在預算審查的時候還會再詳細的再一次跟大家探討因為為什麼要在這裡說因為我們有很多的預算就像剛剛跟部長建議的如果可以希望讓大家可以更清楚的知道或者應該要怎麼樣去看這個預算不要把那個預算過去"},{"start":8486.411,"end":8506.856,"text":"的慣例通通有給委員我不知道為什麼這一次沒有跟委員報告我想就以剛剛委員質詢的例子為例不管媒體公開的程度是如何我剛剛就在想說你剛剛比如說問到預算的部分我不想去回答的原因就是說大家是因為列入親密預算那跟"},{"start":8507.356,"end":8512.559,"text":"委員如果想要知道我們會親自到我們辦公室就每個案子都可以做報告我們提的沒有機密的問題我現在說的是他現在載台他就是很普通的東西今天人家都已經非常成熟的運用而且我們自己也做過了比如說無人把船在永武專案裡面你就已經"},{"start":8527.486,"end":8528.026,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位"},{"start":8557.586,"end":8573.138,"text":"因為他還有其他很多主要的功效像我剛剛唸的都是我們已經有的部長你可以再更詳細的去了解這個狀況這個部分他如果要花這麼多錢我們要今天如果換算用那個600多萬算烏克蘭做200燒的時候他才多少12億我們如果做200燒用這樣的價格我們是200多億"},{"start":8583.285,"end":8587.527,"text":"如果我們要做這樣子的供給要編到百分之五GDP甚至百分之十他可以因為你可以這樣編這是我們要特別提出來主席不好意思"},{"start":8599.912,"end":8604.014,"text":"你兩年就可以把它研製出來表示這個不是困難的一個技術你今年標出去明年就要完成這四艘它不是很困難部長請從這裡去理解這個預算的一個不合理處跟主席借一點時間這個也是有關福利的部分那可以看到我們在這個"},{"start":8626.671,"end":8635.749,"text":"勞務承攬的這個我們看一下臨時人員在參謀本部我們編的預算一個人臨時人員一個人高達一個月高達"},{"start":8637.176,"end":8662.087,"text":"十六萬多比市長還多他負責軍事行政我們看到下面那個表格他科研的一個月才兩萬多五十五個人編四百三十六萬平均一個人才兩萬多那上面那個一個人他是什麼樣的臨時人員一個人一個月可以領十六萬多那在下面一個就是環保業務的一個人也是一個月領六萬多"},{"start":8663.888,"end":8683.846,"text":"我們不知道他是亂編還是這是要讓我們去審的這樣的預算嗎這部分時間因為時間不太夠所以這我們先提出來另外還有一個就是看到應該我想應該是聯俄的傳譯的部分吧應該傳譯英文"},{"start":8687.32,"end":8693.682,"text":"一個月的薪資比一個次長還要高一個月16萬多16萬多多資深你的臨時人員這個多資深我們下去再跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":8703.066,"end":8716.945,"text":"因為我們看到下面軍醫局海軍司令部所有的單位每一個環保人員一個月才一萬多甚至比基本工資還不如可是其他的都很高還有六萬多的"},{"start":8718.997,"end":8746.838,"text":"參謀本部的臨時人員環境的（拜委員是聯合次長有關於剛剛委員所提出來這個問題我們後面澄清清楚以後再跟委員做書面的報告我們現在也要提醒如果你可以澄清清楚當然是最好我不知道有什麼樣的臨時人員可以比次長還要高而且你說資深傳譯這個我們給時間讓他們說明你們把它理清楚到時候審預算的時候或者跟委員都可以做交流跟溝通好不好"},{"start":8747.358,"end":8751.261,"text":"再一個就是我們加班費的部分這個也是我們當時跟王朝偉其實我們在上一屆其實有提到上一屆還是這一屆所以剛剛委員那個問題我們回去再了解因為可能也許剛剛的訊息是有點我們再去查證一下好不好"},{"start":8764.893,"end":8776.098,"text":"因為是你的預算書寫出來我們看到的就這樣那讓你們查清楚以後再說那可是我要再請教部長就這個112、113、114年度因為我們就加班費、夜點費的部分從60塊所要增加到100塊可是你看它最下面它112年度的金額113年度、114年度你從60塊變成100塊可是你的那個預算卻更低是什麼原因"},{"start":8796.593,"end":8801.117,"text":"那你是跟我們之前的那個狀況是一樣就是你讓大家看得到吃不到的意思這樣嗎?"},{"start":8820.993,"end":8826.796,"text":"這我們會去檢討去做一個依註因為核定的時間是在8月中以後一個就是一定要能夠支應第二個預算編在哪裡到時候預算會議的時候來告訴大家這個部分是我們已經對你讓所有的國軍弟兄都已經知道最大的可能是這樣"},{"start":8843.286,"end":8845.829,"text":"接下來進行詢答委員是沈博洋委員那沈博洋委員詢答結束後我們來處理臨時提案"},{"start":8871.706,"end":8872.329,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝來 部長請"},{"start":8882.629,"end":8903.463,"text":"部長好那這個因為時間有限我大部分是要問預算的問題但是在這個之前剛好這次有發生一個時事就是這一個吳小林委員他有提案要去刪這一個9條之3的規定那我知道國防部之前其實也已經有做過相關的這個懲處那我想問一下就是因為畢竟這件事情在"},{"start":8903.863,"end":8923.25,"text":"另外,這個王帝委員跟林楚瑜委員其實也有提案他是要把九之三修的更多比如說,包含這個配合中國具有統戰目的的政治宣傳的行為那我想問一下部長就是說這個因為現在當然他們現在簽的人是不夠啦看起來可能不會提案但不知道這個提案當時他們有沒有跟國防部知會過或者討論過這件事情"},{"start":8925.311,"end":8946.509,"text":"您說翁委員嗎?對,翁委員的提案我個人沒有,不知道因為我覺得這件事情畢竟對我們來講這一個是我們今天對於退將去參與統戰的行為的規範就已經非常少了甚至有不夠細緻的問題所以照理說我們要修的方向應該是要把它變得更細緻才對那如果拿掉的話對我們不管是在"},{"start":8947.149,"end":8961.846,"text":"這一個對於國人的交代或者說在軍隊內部的士氣我覺得會有很重大的影響那我是希望如果之後還有類似的提案國防部能夠堅守原本的一個態度那不然的話如果像這樣的一個情勢發生的話國家安全的守護可能會出問題"},{"start":8963.021,"end":8989.922,"text":"那這個接下來這個我就先放在旁邊我想問一下預算的問題那現在預算來講就是有第一個是財化法通過的問題這個上次我在博富的時候我有先稍微提過那當然極端的情形會刪到2700多億我覺得這個太極端了但如果我們用主計出的算法假設每一個都去刪到三分之一到四分之一的話那財化法通過最後"},{"start":8991.407,"end":9014.2,"text":"國防預算會被刪有可能是一千六百多億這是比較保守的算法那一千六百多億現在被刪的話呢軍事投資本身就是一千四左右所以簡單來講就是軍事投資有可能會全部都沒有啦然後還必須再從作業維持再刪掉一百九十五億那因為上次是跟伯父講上次因為部長不在那不知道現在國防部對這件事情有沒有什麼因應的做法"},{"start":9015.96,"end":9037.461,"text":"我想財化法的通過如果影響到這個我們年度的國防預算的這個穩定的成長的話我想這個對於我們這個要自我防衛的能力的一個建構以及這個有盟國家對於我們有沒有自我防衛的能力的決心應該會有所質疑這樣"},{"start":9038.242,"end":9044.694,"text":"對,而且軍事投資的部分因為我知道有一些比如說軍事的採購啊等等之類他是已經簽約了啦那已經簽約的話如果這個預算沒有編出來那該怎麼辦"},{"start":9047.679,"end":9068.856,"text":"就持續案的部分一直有相當大的一個金額在軍事投資的部分那持續案的部分應該是要持續編列下去如果沒有編列下去的話那這個會構成對我們相關的這些不管是自主的研發生產或者是我們軍購的都會構成重大的影響"},{"start":9069.737,"end":9094.913,"text":"我相信這一個月很有可能這件事情一定會走到協商這一個地步那在總預算審查的時間這件事情如果也同步是在協商的階段他們有可能會針對金額去討論說到底要刪哪裡啊到底中央能夠去被割掉多少啊那個時候我們很需要國防部能夠表達意見不然的話因為對於很多地方財政來講他們第一個想到的就會想說反正國防是中央的事情要砍第一個先砍國防"},{"start":9096.094,"end":9123.733,"text":"國防的金額又夠大所以如果要湊到他們講的那一個額度的話國防一定是首當其衝那希望在協商的時候國防不能夠來表達意見是我們對我們必要的這些有關人員維持作業維持跟軍事投資的部分當然我們非常的不希望因為這樣子的任何法案的通過造成對於國防編列的這個影響特別是在這一個關鍵的時刻"},{"start":9125.474,"end":9154.654,"text":"謝謝顧部長那接下來我想問一下跟剛剛馬委員問的問題有點類似就是加班費的問題就是這個我先跳過但是這個畢竟就是我們現在供給擾台變得越來越多了那大家的這個作業不管是加班等等之類的情形也越來越多那我其實現在就有可能一個情形就是加班真的是加不完太多了但現在也有休假就是沒有辦法去休的問題所以現在就是說因為之前休不完有時候會說那把它弄到明年但明年一定也休不到"},{"start":9155.414,"end":9183.684,"text":"那這個修不完呢有一個方式可能就是做則算補貼因為2023年的時候大法官有解釋就是說呢可以放寬一下那樣的一個定義就是軍人是一個廣義的公務人員所以我們不知道有沒有機會請國防部來盤點一下這件事情就是說呢就是這個2024年現在累積的這個假期的天數然後有沒有機會譬如說假設他今天真的修不到了因為畢竟現在業務太繁忙人也不夠有沒有機會用什麼則算金或者其他的方式"},{"start":9184.344,"end":9196.324,"text":"那這個是不是可以請國防部在一個月之內能夠研擬相關的方案讓我們在預算討論的時候能夠去看有沒有辦法讓這些過度忙碌的官兵至少有一個休假休不到但他至少有一個補償"},{"start":9200.017,"end":9218.717,"text":"是 包委員我們回去持續再做一個做一個沒問題希望是在預算的這一個時候因為我覺得這個畢竟因為他休假休不到嘛你看看他太忙了那另外也順便我再問另外一件事情就是就是因為現在大家忙那在民間我們常常會講四人薪僱三員工作五份工勞那現在當然是"},{"start":9219.898,"end":9248.039,"text":"以公務機關來講不可能用四人薪然後呢雇三員工做五份工但現在現實的狀況是大家會過度的忙碌所以剛剛第一個我們想到的就是休假這個部分有沒有折算金的問題那第二個就是呢這是國防部大概行政上就可以去運作的不管是我們之前在考察的加菜金啊什麼等等之類的我覺得這個部分就一起做研擬但我接下來想要問的是這一個就是因為在之前呢因為現在海空威脅越來越多然後我們當時有看到國防部內部"},{"start":9249,"end":9273.641,"text":"有這樣的一個討論就是說呢這個海空呢針對這些海型然後這飛行的加級啦那這個加級當時這個方案被提出來之後呢在各軍種之間好像也有一些矛盾啦就是說那為什麼他們家沒有這樣就是有這個討論但因為畢竟齁畢竟共軍老台現在這個狀況從五月到九月是增加了去年的數目是三百多次變一千多次是增加了三倍那麼多"},{"start":9274.481,"end":9289.506,"text":"若增加了三倍那麼多這件事情有沒有可能再被討論的空間那當然我知道其他的人可能會覺得說那為什麼是他們可以我們不行但我總覺得畢竟在現在的灰色地帶的硬儲之下這件事情是不是有一個考慮的空間跟委員報告今天就是說"},{"start":9294.315,"end":9311.183,"text":"各項的加級有很多種我們現在正在研議就是說志願役本身的一個加級的增加另外當然對於一些邊線比比較低的我們也要來增加"},{"start":9312.103,"end":9333.306,"text":"但是就如您所講的就是說它增加這個部分又會跟其他的大家都會做比較所以我現在正在已經開了很多次會議了我們不斷地在做一個通盤就是說大家都能夠取得一個平衡"},{"start":9335.668,"end":9350.016,"text":"有些家族他又可以兼領有些家族他是又不可以兼領所以這個相關的部分他都認為他的部隊辛苦也很重要那所以在這個家族之間的這個平衡的這個部分呢"},{"start":9350.937,"end":9365.093,"text":"我們現在正在做一個通盤的一個檢討我希望完了之後我們還要跟內部還要擴大來討論一下那大家都覺得沒有問題我們會提出來這樣子"},{"start":9368.217,"end":9385.482,"text":"因為我覺得總是到最後一定要有一個結論那因為不管怎樣就是現在大家就是比較辛苦那方案有各式各樣像我剛剛講的不管是休假的折算金的部分還是說單項單次的一些獎勵的部分又或者說像這種比較普遍性的佳績不是說三個都一定要全部都有"},{"start":9385.842,"end":9410.183,"text":"但是總是可以有一些方案被討論看看那還有一個很大的原因就是因為畢竟人事相關的這個費用他比較不會受到我們剛剛講的才化法的影響反而是軍購這些的那我是很希望至少我們現在因為才化法很可能會影響到我們的軍購啊我們的研發武器啊等等之類的但至少我們趁這個時候把人事的部分把它維持住我覺得這個也是提振一個世界的好方式"},{"start":9410.803,"end":9431.353,"text":"是 是所以我們會往這方面來努力好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝 謝謝沈博洋委員各位請回那我們現在來處理臨時提案那我跟在場委員這個臨時提案現在唸出來的文字待會我們會請國防部順過之後大家如果同意這文字順了沒有問題了我們就照案通過了先請宣讀臨時提案"},{"start":9433.742,"end":9452.492,"text":"臨時提案針對外交及國防委員會之各預算報告括弧、書面及電子為防止有洩漏之疑慮應將作業維持費中有關保密括弧額度部分不公開全數與機密報告時再行提供提案人委員王定宇、盧美玲、沈博洋"},{"start":9453.272,"end":9476.14,"text":"陳永康、黃仁、陳冠廷、洪森翰等委員宣讀完畢好那剛才國防部已經提出文字的修正我認為國防部的文字寫得比較精準各位聽一下我們國防部的文字調整為針對國防部主管預算編列與機密預算之軍事投資案其採購作業費因"},{"start":9480.666,"end":9500.236,"text":"均編列於公開預算為防止泄密疑慮應將作業經費改為機密預算編列以上文字各位沒有意見沒有意見的話我們照案通過好那接下來進行詢答的委員是陳冠廷委員"},{"start":9516.203,"end":9523.527,"text":"主席好,我們請部長。來,部長請。剛才那個提案是照國防部修正通過,我補這一句。是,陳偉好。"},{"start":9539.329,"end":9540.37,"text":"這個部分這個華為部的廉政署"},{"start":9568.824,"end":9572.216,"text":"那個那是不是請鄭鳳嬸來說明一下"},{"start":9576.236,"end":9600.93,"text":"主席委員好這部分法務部的廉政署已經在調查就相關人員的責任還有刑事責任正在處理中正在處理當中那想請教一下那國防部這邊是希望他們大概要處理多久有沒有一個實現因為其實這個是很快速就已經知道是由哪一位承辦人員法務部廉政署派出國防部的鄭豐氏的委任三等助理員"},{"start":9606.153,"end":9619.323,"text":"我至今獲得的訊息是他都已經約詢了那後續處理我想我們都尊重廉政署不過我想我們可以去了解一下他現在處理的一個進度這樣子"},{"start":9620.203,"end":9643.318,"text":"謝謝部長我認為這個部分就也不是尊重廉政署我們還是有一點態度啦因為畢竟是他們派員來這邊那相關的上次部長說沒有那麼機敏但是算是機敏的資訊那這個懲處的速度跟懲處的這個對象要盡快把它明確化就是究責這個事情還是要有我們不可以說承辦人員很辛苦什麼之類的不行就是有錯必須要有當責的機制不然"},{"start":9645.239,"end":9654.204,"text":"不然所有的機密的幾等這些就沒有任何的意義我們所做的任何的保密包含我們今天講的臨時的提案就沒有任何意義就是必須要有一個究責的態度好不好"},{"start":9655.075,"end":9682.994,"text":"所以我們才會請這個外部的單位來進行這樣子那第二個問題就是說因為這個事情連再加上之前有海軍的海巡外交等相關的機密招海那中華電信他說要調查離清外洩的原因那這個事情到現在我看已經有九個月八九個月了不知道最新的狀況是什麼部長如果有掌握到的話或者是請其他的這個國防部裡面的其他的這個海軍相關的"},{"start":9685.015,"end":9705.481,"text":"您是說海巡外交部的海軍海巡外交部等相關機密諮詢遭害中華電信這個地方他說會這個釐清外洩原因就是一些公文包含我們外交部國軍的這些機密文件在案碗上面公開販售這個之前我們好像是在今年年中的時候也有諮詢不知道相關的進度在哪裡"},{"start":9706.86,"end":9734.471,"text":"報表員我是海軍參謀長那當初的因為他整個的部分是不涉及機密的部分他只是當初的契約的履約的一個相關資料在條列裡面但是我們基金省裡面並沒有涉及到機密的資訊沒有機密的資訊所以這個也就只是公文外洩而已那因為沒有機密的資訊所以公文外洩是透過中華電信他因為把我們一些相關的公文書的資料併在他的裡面但是在裡面只是一些招標的文件但是不涉及"},{"start":9734.531,"end":9753.634,"text":"可是他好像成立了一個我還在國安會的時候我國安會的時候我了解好像是中華電信成立了一個群組吧好像是這樣子然後他有一些文件放在上面那經過查我們海軍部應該沒有涉及機密的部分應該是這樣子"},{"start":9755.233,"end":9756.515,"text":"我今天講這些東西的原因就是說我還是認為這個人因的"},{"start":9771.576,"end":9790.068,"text":"管理是非常重要那從這一個我們上次看到聯政署派出國防部的這個委任三兩年就有我想知道說這些揭秘的成語到底是國防部決定還是由法務部聯政署來決定還是由國安局決定還是由調查局決定一個人的揭秘成績跟他定時要更新他的這個揭秘的成績"},{"start":9790.828,"end":9809.041,"text":"我之前跟外交部來談的時候外交部說他們希望說未來我們的這個概念是希望是可以由國安局來做統一的去做人事上面的確保可是這個各種不同的說法蠻多的我想請教一下國防部的意見是怎麼樣以後我們"},{"start":9810.342,"end":9837.93,"text":"其他派駐到我們這邊的國防部這邊的這些承辦人員的話那他的機密、揭密成績是要由誰來審核我們由征戰局的保防安全總隊那就由這個征戰局的保防安全總隊或做這個人員安全的一個查核然後就他現在揭密的這個等級我們現在就由這個安全查核他的情況來核定他的揭密等級那詳細部分是不是請征戰局說明一下是"},{"start":9839.626,"end":9859.275,"text":"委員好我們現在呢正在建立就是我們所有揭秘人員的一個機制將來就是要經過安全查核合格之後才派任相關的機密現在正在建立這個機制了已經在執行原來就有對我們現在強化我們現在只是說"},{"start":9864.057,"end":9884.829,"text":"我希望他們要求就是說按照美方類似美方這樣的一個機制不是以他的階級而是以他接密的這個程度來進行一個更強化的一個安全的查核的程度來審定他能夠接觸機密的等級這樣子這個安全查核的程度大家是需要"},{"start":9886.027,"end":9907.165,"text":"去爭取到的為什麼我要這麼講就是說他你必須要主動或者是被動的讓他查核他的他過去他接觸到的風險他接觸到的密等跟他的這個身家背景包含說他的這個出入一些敏感國家的這些次數來去做風險上面來調整來去因應他的這個機密成績我想美方是這樣子去做的所以他是定期"},{"start":9907.765,"end":9926.974,"text":"要去更新的那我們看到有一些離職的人員之前我這邊有一些相關的資訊很多有些離職的人員他會帶著一些資料走那甚至是這就跟駭客無關這跟你在建立幾百個防火牆都無關的他是以人因為導向的那其實這一個說法我想"},{"start":9927.994,"end":9948.064,"text":"在揭秘層級或者是你要定期更新你的揭秘層級這件事情我認為還是要一個統一跨部門跨部會的一個機制我甚至認為說應該是有聯席會議就是說它不是只是國防部因為外交部是要用國防部的系統嗎還是就是它是一個跨部會的因為外交部外交部的人員他揭秘的時候我們也看到很多外交部相關的公文在流失嘛"},{"start":9948.504,"end":9977.257,"text":"那他的階密層級又是由誰定的那這個當然是現在不是國防部的事情但是總是要有一個部門來去統整不要說讓這些政府的這些通常要聯席會議的時候或者是通常他們要聯合辦公的時候聯合處理一件重要的事情比如說出訪的時候那彼此之間的密等沒有統一沒有協調那我想這是我們要擔心的事情那接下來我們談一下國防預算的這個提升那部長我想最近不管是在金融時報剛剛幾位委員也有問或者是"},{"start":9978.417,"end":9990.471,"text":"各個不同的智庫媒體都有提到說希望台灣的國防預算提到5%那提到國防預算的提高國防預算的提高代表說其他預算有可能必須要去做會相應的要調整"},{"start":9991.462,"end":10017.66,"text":"但是我還是要強調說我們國防預算的提高重點是說我們要具備什麼樣的能力我們要買什麼樣的裝備我們要做什麼樣的訓練那金融時報有說什麼F35等等各種不同的這種武器系統我想請教部長我們此時此刻不用跟我講具體的裝備名稱最需要的是什麼樣的方向是後勤要確保我們的這個 readiness我們的這個各種武器設備他是做好準備的還是什麼"},{"start":10018.632,"end":10044.752,"text":"如果我們講這個軍頭這一塊軍事投資這一塊我們重點在建構不對稱戰力提升防衛的防衛韌性這一塊大家比較少注意但事實上這一塊也很重要強化後備戰力跟灰色地帶的應出我們每次要面對的灰色地帶應出對我們進行的消耗我們也要來致重點在這個四個項目來進行我們必要的這個自主的產製或者是籌購對外籌購"},{"start":10046.573,"end":10074.915,"text":"所以我還是希望說在未來的美國的新政府開始之後那剛才已經包含王定永委員都有提到這個灰色地帶的這個硬處裡面我們的軍艦或者是說我們的海巡這跟國防部的業務無關那在租界上面的可能性這也是我們可以直接思考因為必須要面臨的是2027嘛現在的2025、25年嘛有些東西我們現在製造或許來不及那包含一些美方的國會議員都有提到相關的可能性我想這也是可以納入我們未來預算的考量就是說不是直接"},{"start":10075.815,"end":10095.99,"text":"新製造或許太慢的話那盡量我們不用最新的我們要最適合現在的作戰形態的好謝謝謝謝陳委員指教部長各位請回接下來進行訓導委員徐小新委員謝謝主席我們有請顧部長來部長請"},{"start":10105.376,"end":10118.467,"text":"社區委員部長好其實首先先跟您談一下上一次在跟您在質詢的過程當中有提到這個勞動權益的部分那我在10月30號未還委員會上面有特別向勞動部長何部長請教就是國防部"},{"start":10122.53,"end":10138.758,"text":"委員會在五一勞動節上班的情況沒有提供加班費有沒有違反勞動基準法的疑慮部長說可能是有的所以他有提到說會找您瞭解此事保障約聘僱的權益"},{"start":10139.258,"end":10146.982,"text":"所以我們也希望國防部在這個部分能夠盡快修正因為我想勞動部針對這部分講的應該是比較準確的就約聘僱他假設他選擇在5月1號他上班的話那因為他是勞工所以他就應該要有勞工的權益那這個再麻煩我們國防部再去跟這個勞動部談一下具體的細節"},{"start":10161.59,"end":10174.654,"text":"但不需要說明因為事後我們再談因為我們今天主要要談的議題不是這個主要今天部長我要跟您論的是說我們國軍人員在性騷擾處理跟性侵害預防規定裡面有什麼樣的一個保護措施"},{"start":10178.729,"end":10179.029,"text":"國防部主管"},{"start":10193.729,"end":10210.715,"text":"有特別的規定說單位在接受性騷擾申訴案件之後要在24小時之內完成以下措施包含立刻隔離當事人被申訴人應該要暫時調離單位到不同營區保護被害人不受到二度傷害這是我們的相關規定"},{"start":10211.815,"end":10227.124,"text":"但是呢我最近呢接到一個陳情是關於我們的女性的事關他們被這個性騷的情況我們有經過受害者的同意那提供給大家看一下他有兩個部分第一個是簡訊的騷擾簡訊的騷擾呢等一下我看一下圖他就說"},{"start":10236.46,"end":10253.169,"text":"他在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有那個圖嗎你要不要放一下那個圖反正呢他的在簡訊騷擾的部分呢他就有寫說不然吃掉你也行他就在講說吃午餐的部分"},{"start":10253.729,"end":10268.507,"text":"然後呢對方就不太想回答他然後他就說不是你親手做的那對方被害人說是我買的然後呢這個市都他就說也不是親口味然後對方就給了一個很尷尬的圖片這個很明顯的叫做簡訊的騷擾"},{"start":10273.453,"end":10276.316,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":10288.37,"end":10308.908,"text":"的那個老闆就是市都對你有意思之外整體生活過得不算差難怪死活都不給我親被害者說本來就不行市都說為什麼不行被害者說為什麼可以你哪一個身份可以市都說因為我喜歡你啊這個答案你滿意嗎市都說想不到原因了吧認命吧"},{"start":10309.668,"end":10316.094,"text":"那這個文字上面是很明顯的他有兩個部分一個是簡訊的騷擾一個是言語的騷擾兩個都是很明確的有性騷擾的問題那我們看一下國軍人員性騷案件的懲罰建議表"},{"start":10325.242,"end":10339.747,"text":"那這個部分呢言語偷拍、猥褻、簡訊騷擾、肢體騷擾跟言語肢體這個部分它都分成不同的違規態樣所以在以這個案件來說它其實已經違反了言語騷擾是一個然後簡訊騷擾是一個這個案子它應該是已經違反了兩種的態樣好那我們接下來看"},{"start":10347.363,"end":10368.399,"text":"這個呢受害者他經過了什麼他先提出了性騷擾的申訴那在言語騷擾跟簡訊騷擾的部分呢性評會都認為說這是兩個不同的事件他受到了言語騷擾以及簡訊騷擾都是事實那程度是屬於中度的那他們提的建議是性評會提的建議是要"},{"start":10370.18,"end":10393.007,"text":"各大過一次那我們海軍在處理這件事情的時候呢照理來說他是同一個案子因為是同一個被害人跟同一個加害人但是他就是一案兩大過會直接退太處那這種情況他是可以領退五金但是沒有退縫但我們的海軍的做法呢是把它分成兩個行為各給一大過"},{"start":10395.228,"end":10422.583,"text":"那呢這樣的結果會變成是今年度的烤雞餅上明年才召開不釋服的人評會所以呢就等於說他今年一整年他還是可以繼續在軍中裡面那這就會讓我們的這個受害者覺得非常的恐懼尤其是他明明是同一個受害人跟同一個加害人那應該是同一個案子裡面的兩件事情那我想要問一下為什麼不是憑他一案兩大過"},{"start":10425.769,"end":10443.595,"text":"委員好我是海軍參謀長那這個案子我們也高度的關切我們也要特別保護這個當事人這個我們都做的因為這是一個性評會他是一個有獨立他有召開一個委員會那這些還有會考量的因素可能是有第一個因為他這個是從"},{"start":10444.295,"end":10458.273,"text":"我問的是你們海軍做的決定嗎你不要先講那邊人家姓平慧已經有相關的這個說明了我問的是海軍你明明可以選擇一案兩大過直接太除為什麼你要把它分成兩個行為各一大過讓他再繼續在這個"},{"start":10461.016,"end":10464.179,"text":"所以以後不同時間然後去騷擾只要不是同時的他都用這樣子來做嗎"},{"start":10484.256,"end":10504.743,"text":"實際上他慶平會他就是告訴你他程度是中國你可以各大過一次嘛那你一案兩大過是兩行為各一大過是你海軍的裁決嘛我再給部長看一下後續的喔不只這樣子而已喔這是二度的傷害來我們看下一張這個被害人提出申訴是在7月9號的時候我們剛剛有給大家看我們國軍的處理時間應該要在24小時之內隔離對方你們10月16號才把這個市都調到指揮部"},{"start":10513.166,"end":10528.355,"text":"那就已經違反相關規定啦然後再來呢這個被調動人員的職務呢還是他的上級單位所以你們等到10月30號下午3點的時候才告訴這個被害人說要把他調動職務那我要問的問題喔為什麼你們是調動被害人的職務不是調動加害人的職務呢"},{"start":10534.524,"end":10535.806,"text":"你們有沒有去跟他講過說想要做這件事情嗎?"},{"start":10552.964,"end":10574.277,"text":"如果不是今天後來我們來告訴你們說有這個事情很嚴重你們就是有人跟被害人講說我想要嘗試調動你的職務但導致了被害人覺得我是被害人為什麼我的職務要被調動那所以有了這樣子的一個澄清之後那才免除了這件事情那我的意思是說你不覺得中間有需要檢討的地方嗎"},{"start":10575.222,"end":10580.546,"text":"是 法院有針對有些這些實際上對於保護當事人有不夠睜眼的部分我會來做檢討好那因為呢你可以看到吼第一個錯誤就是第一個問題在於我剛剛講的一案兩大過或是兩案一大過這個部分嘛第二個問題那主席讓我統整一下第二個問題在於違反24小時的規定第三個問題是你們裡面有人去找了這個被害人說想要嘗試調動他的職務"},{"start":10600.86,"end":10624.361,"text":"這三件事情裡面顯然有違規的問題我想要問部長能不能將這件事情送政風做調查委員能不能回到您剛剛那個信評會的那一章裡面信評會的那一個部分他到底是建議什麼他建議就是他的程度是中度然後呢建議各大過一次所以他的建議也是各一大過"},{"start":10625.522,"end":10651.173,"text":"但是你們這個後面所謂的各一大過你是把它做成這個兩個不同的行為各一大過那它會導致於說你明年才你會讓他待一整年而且他可以選擇他直接退伍他就跟這件事情完全沒有關係我跟委員報告就是說我的第一點就是說他們的最後跟他計過的方式到底跟信民會的決議是不是一致這一"},{"start":10652.273,"end":10669.241,"text":"這一點因為剛剛看起來好像兩個是一致的這是第一點第二點因為對這個案子本身我想我下去我們會再仔細的瞭解一下這樣子再跟委員做報告那最後我們還有一個訴求就是說呢因為這個人他可以在案件上未定案之前直接退伍"},{"start":10670.441,"end":10693.694,"text":"所以我希望說我們在國軍人員性騷擾處理及性侵害預防實施規定裡面能夠增訂涉性平案件的申訴人在未定案之前不得退伍希望你們可以回去思考一下否則以這個案例來說這個人他立刻退伍之後這件事情就已經跟他沒有關係了那我想這個是非常對被害人非常不公平的情況那請部長來評估好不好謝謝因為時間不夠的關係我們就另外再談"},{"start":10697.836,"end":10698.016,"text":"請顧部長來部長請"},{"start":10732.717,"end":10733.077,"text":"含秘密會議"},{"start":10748.442,"end":10775.771,"text":"那據我所知看起來這個翁小英委的提案可能會因為他連署人數不足不會提出可是我今天早上我們看了這個國民黨團尤其是他們書記長對這個事情的回應他說這個我們的退退退退退出席將領到對岸去唱對方的國歌這是基於禮貌"},{"start":10777.864,"end":10801.524,"text":"部長你同不同意我想如果是就是說認定已經認定比如說前面有一個個案張又俠的那個案子他我們已經做成一個他起立聆聽這個中國國歌這樣的一個行為我們已經依照違反兩岸人民關係條例9條13的規定給他"},{"start":10803.621,"end":10806.644,"text":"五年停止零售業兌換了百分之七十五．．．．．．．．．．．"},{"start":10830.27,"end":10848.245,"text":"沒有我想我們的處分已經表達了我們國防部的還有其他各部會因為我們這是經過審查會通過的這個審查會不是只有國防部也包括了像陸委會還有包括國安局等等其他各單位所以是大家的有權機關的也也參"},{"start":10849.125,"end":10873.999,"text":"就是對於兩岸關係條例這個有權解釋機關的看法那國防部也同意這樣的一個看法所以我想應該是已經不是一個單純的基於禮貌的這樣的一個行為好我希望國防部可以對這項這樣子的事件我們的立場要表達夠清楚我想這邊沒有什麼任何理由我們跑到對面對岸去然後在一個真正沒有思想自由的地方說"},{"start":10875.78,"end":10884.053,"text":"唱了國歌反而你處罰他還叫做思想自由的禁錮我想這是絕大無法接受的事情那我接下來想要跟部長討論我想請政戰局"},{"start":10893.791,"end":10913.227,"text":"部長跟局長上個會期其實在4月的時候我當時有質詢當然很多委員都關心到國軍心腹人員人力嚴重不足的問題我們看到一位心腹人員需要關照到405位的官兵甚至有心腹證照的人員要照顧2318位的官兵平均下來"},{"start":10918.976,"end":10947.472,"text":"那現在大家都知道說這個心理的健康其實是國軍戰力非常非常重要的基礎很重要那當時其實我們也建議說要求說應該要培育心腹的專業人才尤其是要藉助民間的力量跟民間的資源那後來政戰局有回覆我確實有回覆我說他們有這個往年有所謂連接民間福島資源的這個計畫我想請問大家經過了半年以後目前就"},{"start":10949.133,"end":10976.188,"text":"這個我們的國防部目前還有什麼經濟的作為這部分是委員好徵案局局長報告就是在這近期我們已經規劃了國軍心理健康照護方案那這個方案原來就是我們鏈結民間心腹資源的部分對那我們呢會這個增加預算來服務照顧我們的官兵那另外增加多少預算"},{"start":10976.788,"end":11001.065,"text":"我們明年是編列兩千零一十六萬那另外我們也會增設正照的新府人力區分兩年兩個階段來增加四十四位的新府人力還有就是我們在軍醫局在今年的七月一號已經將心理健康納入年度體檢裡面"},{"start":11002.726,"end":11024.657,"text":"所以像我們去執行年度體檢包含我在內都會有一關就是心理健康的一個評估的這個項目來增進我們官兵的心理健康據說我有看到資料包括預算書上面資料看到你們相比於今年然後去年明年的預算的編列好像是今年的10倍是"},{"start":11025.177,"end":11044.89,"text":"那在這個心理健康上面的預算尤其是這個委辦費上面從一百七十幾萬變成一千七百四十幾萬當然這在你們整個國防部的預算裡面佔的比例還是非常低可是就這個增加的幅度當然我們可以肯定可是我其實是想要問一下局長"},{"start":11045.931,"end":11069.656,"text":"主要我手上有一份這個這其實是20應該2022年之前這個監察院的一個調查的報告針對你們陸軍其實一位黃姓中衛的步兵他的上吊自殺的事件的一個調查的報告我不知道你們有沒有看這份調查的報告這上面其實裡面也提到了很多關於我們在新府機制上面的問題包括他其實談到"},{"start":11071.696,"end":11074.598,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":11089.725,"end":11090.685,"text":"實質提供給我們同袍的"},{"start":11105.75,"end":11133.164,"text":"工作部分很可能就會在工作時間上面被排擠那也提到包括我也看到了我們在審計部之前的報告提到其實我們在過去五年國軍智商的案件中其實有80%的官兵並沒有在現在的三級防處機制裡面被發現局長你覺得針對這些這都是我們幾個單位出來的報告你們有沒有提出什麼改善的做法"},{"start":11134.229,"end":11139.769,"text":"是跟委員報告在這個部分就是我們"},{"start":11141.024,"end":11166.876,"text":"每年在官兵組就是聯保長跟我們的新府官在第一線初級防處的部分我們每年篩略出來需要輔導的個案有兩三千位的個案那這些個案都是經過長期的輔導之後狀況穩定我現在講的事情是說我們審計部的報告裡面說過去智商事件智商事件有80%"},{"start":11168.937,"end":11171.139,"text":"這是我們國人欠缺主動求助的一個觀念"},{"start":11196.999,"end":11223.878,"text":"所以你是要怪給國人嗎?是我們改進因為這個部分我們也希望能夠盡量去發掘就想跟布朗我想表達第一個我們對於尤其在明年的預算裡面你們在新府的資源包括委辦費的這個增加的部分我們當然支持可是看起來不是只是預算增加就可以的事情我覺得這幾份報告裡面我其實全部都詳細讀過了"},{"start":11225.939,"end":11242.485,"text":"這讀過裏面有很多其實還是有機制性上面的問題我們目前在這些機制上面的問題這不是只有預算的問題機制上面的問題我自己是希望我可以提供這份報告的內容我們可不可以請國防部至少有個我可以給兩個月的時間你們研議一下在這些機制上面"},{"start":11243.385,"end":11265.192,"text":"能夠有什麼精進的空間包括裡面講到說我們這些表面形式文化變成這些辛苦人員其實已經很少了每天他都在不斷地是趕這些形式上面的表單排擠到他們實質上面可以做的協助助人的工作這倒看起來是有很大可以改善的空間是不是可以給兩個月的時間然後有一份報告讓我們知道國防部接下來在這些機制性上的問題"},{"start":11266.232,"end":11275.771,"text":"要怎麼改善來對應你們的預算的增加不然你們預算即便增加假如實質的部分落實沒辦法做好也還是白搭好不好這部分部長跟局長可以嗎"},{"start":11279.863,"end":11302.361,"text":"部長可以嗎是我想主要是要怎麼樣子來主動這個發掘這個主動來篩離這個有異常徵喉的這個部分要如何能夠真正的做到那我想他剛剛局長要表達的應該不是在貴賊任何主要是就是在於是說我們應該要"},{"start":11305.744,"end":11330.705,"text":"將這一些作為要把它要實質啦就是說去掉您剛剛也講到了不要做過多的這個形式的是這部分部長上任以後我覺得做了很多這方面的事情我們都可以肯定啊對那我現在也打算我們要增加這個新埔的鎮罩的人員那也要給他們一定的加急然後來主動來因為有涉及到缺乏專業鎮罩這個部分"},{"start":11332.046,"end":11359.2,"text":"那有關剛剛提到的那些表面的形式文化這個下來之後我想我會跟政財局我們再來好好地研議兩個月的時間好不好給國防部的這邊來檢討謝謝那個局長今天是不是身體不舒服對那個精神不集中他不是說要怪罪社會啦你那個事回答得太快了好身體健安多體諒好請坐好下一個進行詢答的委員"},{"start":11360.976,"end":11362.597,"text":"作為國防部的部長我想請問一下您守護的國家叫什麼名字?"},{"start":11390.748,"end":11409.758,"text":"中華民國是我是中華民國的立法委員我們都是中華民國派對於有其他委員個別所提案的事件我想到目前為止在野黨所了解都還在連署階段連署會不會通過都還不知道我想有許多的立法委員對於這一案"},{"start":11410.478,"end":11435.42,"text":"我們都表達高度的關切也內部都在討論我想我們立法委員全力守護的就是中華民國我是中華民國的立法委員我唱的是中華民國的國歌我拿的是中華民國的國旗我們都是中華民國派所以我們想接下來問許多有關於國軍如何守護我們中華民國最重要的幾個問題從上個會期我就一直在討論面對現在少子化"},{"start":11436.081,"end":11449.195,"text":"面對現在各行各業都缺工缺人才的一個狀況之下我們還看到了所謂的軍購案有國際媒體報導4800多億當然你有出面澄清我想跟美國購買軍備我們當然支持"},{"start":11452.498,"end":11468.184,"text":"但是買了武器誰要來操作就算新進的武器有人操作了跟原有的單位人要從哪裡去補上這是我們一直都很關鍵的一個問題到底我們的國軍現在的問題應該還是以人力的上人力上面的一個問題應該來做補足我想從6月6號"},{"start":11472.105,"end":11484.558,"text":"你剛上任沒有多久同樣在這個位置本席就有向部長談到國軍薪資結構過低的問題部長你說會去找主計人事單位聊一聊請問聊完以後狀況是什麼有沒有機會調整"},{"start":11486.389,"end":11506.028,"text":"我們現在就如剛寫到委員所垂詢的我們已經在進行一個就是最後收容的階段的一個一個研議因為是因為國軍的這個加級的這個部分相當的多那我們現在當然是集中要考量到說"},{"start":11507.549,"end":11534.034,"text":"一個志願役的這個加級要不要提高那提高到多少那另外就是說邊線比比較低的這部分的戰鬥部隊這個部分的加級要提高當然要全部去做一個總盤檢討然後還要有其他的很多其他各類的加級的一個平衡性所以你有去做調查有在收攏這相關的資料了對有沒有可以先透露大概會提升多少薪資"},{"start":11535.254,"end":11558.514,"text":"我想還沒有定案之前我想應該是不因為我們好沒關係我有一個數據想跟部長來提供一下就我們去做一個片面的了解我們去收集這樣子相關情資台灣二等兵的薪資啊差日本二等兵兩千元一等兵差了四千元台灣的下市薪資呢差新加坡的下市八千元台灣市館長的薪資呢"},{"start":11559.975,"end":11581.913,"text":"差新加坡的士官長2.2萬元台灣少校的薪資比南韓的少校差了1.4萬元部長將軍級的軍官我們就不比了啦光比這些基層部隊的官士兵我們台灣現役軍人對比鄰近國家待遇偏低但台灣面對的戰爭風險比其他國家高當然你要回答我各個國家"},{"start":11582.493,"end":11611.043,"text":"生活水平、待遇還有他們所謂的物價不同我都知道但是我要表達的就是現在現役軍人對於民間企業的薪資也偏低我們拿什麼誘因來留人總不能老是一個愛國心吧部長弟兄也要養家照顧弟兄的薪資、待遇是我上個會期跟這個會期最重要的一個重點我會持續追蹤下去我想現場我們對這些部分的訴求部長你可以給我一個意義嗎"},{"start":11614.26,"end":11638.846,"text":"我想就這個部分剛剛跟委員報告了就是說我們已經正在我事實上已經開過大概五成的會議我們現在正在最後是一個收容的階段我們最後會提出一個比較具體的一個方案因為確實在現在來看的話這個應該是中市以下的吧是不是應該都還不及這個國人的這個"},{"start":11642.776,"end":11662.572,"text":"緊張性性質的一個中位數所以就這個部分基層的官兵就這個部分的招募還有他的流營率這個部分也多少跟這個有關那我們當然要一方面提升國軍的地位當然這個部分的待遇的增加我想我們也要適度的來調整那所以你認同要調整對吧對我認同要調整好謝謝"},{"start":11665.074,"end":11665.975,"text":"接下來進行詢答委員是賴思寶委員"},{"start":11695.114,"end":11699.696,"text":"謝謝主席 各位先進有請國防部的顧部長來 部長請Sir 賴委員好你好 這個我的時間很少希望你就簡單我問很簡單的問題你就簡單的回答這個關於有大家關心的啦就是大家關心的說"},{"start":11725.595,"end":11738.565,"text":"路透社、國際媒體說臺灣要跟美國賣將近5000億的軍購你前面都有說明我知道了我就問你一個F35有沒有可能"},{"start":11739.994,"end":11762.688,"text":"各位委員報告我想所有可能對於我們這個平時應對灰色地帶跟暫時這個拒止這個共軍犯台的這樣子的一個必要的這個相關的武器都會在我們的考量之內但是具體的這些哪一些個別的武器裝備我想我們會循這個台美的交流機制來跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":11763.829,"end":11774.99,"text":"這個F-35幾乎是不可能嘛因為他這個要同盟國才有而且要出他的研發經費我們也沒有出那這個基本上我就不知道啦"},{"start":11776.215,"end":11803.381,"text":"所以我們不會對個別的裝備來現在來加以有任何的評論這個話當然是我們的官方放出來的嘛這個一定是我們的這個高層或者你們國防部或者總統府那邊國安會那邊放出的消息啊這個結果放出來結果人家覺得說而且放的也是太太這個外行了齁我想這個川普啊等一下因為我時間有限了我就問你"},{"start":11804.511,"end":11814.6,"text":"川普說台灣要付保護費啊到底要付多少他才會滿意啊你能不能回答一下台電從軍購以及晶片到底是多少你心裡有沒有補"},{"start":11815.803,"end":11840.166,"text":"我想我之前都已經回答了我們跟台美之間的軍事交流就非常的綿密而且已經制度性了這個制度已經是一個制度化的一個軍事交流的一個機制讓我們任何的這個如果要向美軍購這個相關的這個武器裝備或者甚至訓練等等我們都是循這個機制來提出去的"},{"start":11840.606,"end":11855.457,"text":"那所以也要符合事實上我們雙方都認同這個是一個符合作戰的需要請問你啊 請問你啊川普上台以後我們的國防經費是不是會每年提高就問你這個"},{"start":11856.653,"end":11879.921,"text":"我們國防部的立場我剛剛已經說明了我們現在近三年都平均成長大概百分之八左右所以我們預期應該希望國防預算還是能夠穩健的成長就是穩健每年百分之八成長我沒有敢說我們一定會成長多少百分之八不夠啦如果按照川普的講法百分之八怎麼夠"},{"start":11881.42,"end":11900.93,"text":"起碼要20%以上每年要成長20%好我現在給你一些的觀念概念川普是生意人你同意吧生意人出身但是美台還是有一個共同利益我知道啦但是生意人出身來請問你瞭解川普嗎我想我不適宜在這裡對這個好就可以引用一下全世界公認"},{"start":11910.899,"end":11934.455,"text":"很瞭解川普的人一個叫安倍晉三已經過去了他講過川普重視數字而不是價值台灣現在我們的政府強調什麼民主同盟在川普來講不重視他要逼他就說要嘛就達成協議否則拉倒我講這些話都是安倍晉三講的那我就告訴你"},{"start":11936.958,"end":11962.09,"text":"這個川普一定要求我們基尼部隊買更多的武器問題在於是不是我們要的而這個數字呢我都覺得因為我們現在請問你知道我們現在每年賺美國多少錢你知道嗎貿易順差您說台灣跟美國的貿易順差你知道多少嗎一年我現在手上沒有這個數字最少500億美金有人講600億有人講700億甚至於2023有人講800億"},{"start":11966.515,"end":11986.43,"text":"這個數字是值得特別是國防部長你要認真去看川普心目中的就是生意人嘛你爆穿這麼多錢我要把你武器把你賺回來會不會全部的全部拿走就多少錢呢兩兆喔所以跟他的百分之十就很接近啦百分之十怎麼來的從這個數字那裡得"},{"start":11987.49,"end":12001.635,"text":"這是我的這樣子解讀啦我告訴告訴你看一看安倍晉三怎麼形容川普他就是看數字不是我們政府一天到晚講哇投門價值民主價值可以呢盡量講但是要做生意啦你掙到這麼多錢我相信美國絕對不希望台海發生戰爭因為這不符合美國的利益"},{"start":12016.817,"end":12038.113,"text":"阿我們付到多錢怎麼會有戰爭呢那所以第二個接下來我們自我防衛能力的提升的需要的情況之下我們會跟美國購買何於何於能夠提升自我防衛能力的這樣的武器最後一點一個小點上一次我問的那個無人機有限無限請你給我們一個報告可以嗎部長"},{"start":12040.572,"end":12053.62,"text":"有限無限無人機打無人機無人機有的有限有的無限怎麼樣營業這裡上一次部長不在把資料給我資料給我謝謝賴世寶委員那個是反專甲彈啦無人機用沒什麼的不會沒300公尺"},{"start":12073.072,"end":12101.27,"text":"您說的是托市2B吧好謝謝賴委員我們接下來進行詢答委員黃國昌委員謝謝主席麻煩有請部長來部長請Sir 黃委員好"},{"start":12102.043,"end":12123.838,"text":"部長美國總統當選的川普他宣布了說他會任命退役的陸軍軍官當然絕大多數的媒體大家報導都是他是福斯電視台的主持人但我覺得他比較重要的背景是他其實長期待在軍隊當中"},{"start":12125.519,"end":12136.486,"text":"右左邊列出來的是他在服役的期間當中曾經得過的勳章、獎項待過阿富汗待過伊拉克也待過古巴"},{"start":12138.008,"end":12154.478,"text":"當然在這樣子的一個軍事背景的背後早上我也看到了部長說對於他出任國防部部長是樂觀其成我們尊重美國的民主程序我們當然也會尊重美國的總統準總統對於他未來國防部長"},{"start":12159.973,"end":12185.294,"text":"認命的權利當然從台灣的角度來講我們會比較關心的事情是說對台灣所會造成的衝擊所會造成的影響以及台灣跟美國未來在合作上面是不是會因此產生什麼樣子的變化部長對於這位即將要出任美國國防部部長的Hexes有基本的認識嗎?"},{"start":12187.05,"end":12213.618,"text":"我的理解是他還相當的年輕嘛是1980年出生的那有念過這個然後後來到2013年去念哈佛那從軍的經歷對他的當然影響應該是很大那川普在介紹他當然是強調是他非常的重視美國優先這樣子您知道他為什麼不想要待在軍中嗎"},{"start":12215.828,"end":12242.316,"text":"這個我沒有掌握我跟部長說明一下這個是11月8號的時候他接受一個YouTuber訪問的時候那訪問的內容從他的觀點來講從我們的術語來看他對中國絕對是一個硬派在他眼中看起來中國正在打造一個可以擊敗美國的軍隊"},{"start":12246.031,"end":12266.779,"text":"當然過去這幾年他可以說是非常的out spoken對於美國的軍隊在過去這幾年當然我必須要先強調我們不宜介入美國共和黨跟民主黨他們之間政黨的競爭但是不同的政策立場的確會影響到台灣"},{"start":12268.2,"end":12278.418,"text":"在這個專訪旁邊放了一本書那個書我把它放大長成這個樣子叫做《The World of Warriors》"},{"start":12280.287,"end":12297.985,"text":"他大概描述了他的軍中服役的過程那以及他所看到對於民主黨的政府可能在對於軍隊讓這一些在服役的軍人沒有得到必要的尊重沒有得到必要的尊重"},{"start":12298.866,"end":12322.715,"text":"而這樣的心情對於他離開軍隊產生非常大的影響所以某個程度上面來講他的確是川普在實踐美國優先政策的時候去任命他當國防部部長這樣子的一個背景這樣子的一個政策立場老實說令人並不意外但是看了"},{"start":12324.662,"end":12332.773,"text":"相關對於他這本書所描述心情的報導其實我覺得對我們台灣某個程度上有一點啟發那個啟發是說我們必須要讓在我們軍隊當中冒險犯難"},{"start":12340.864,"end":12352.756,"text":"為國家出生入職的軍人我們一定整個社會要給他們支持跟尊重這樣子的話才會讓我們這一些國軍的弟兄願意繼續為這個國家來奮戰"},{"start":12355.879,"end":12375.533,"text":"那我相信這樣子的立場會繼續的延續到會繼續的延續到他上任國防部部長以後因為對中鷹派這樣子的立場一定會去影響到我們跟美國在軍事合作上面政策的調整那最後一件事情主席我可以再問兩個問題嗎謝謝就兩個問題非常快的問題好謝謝"},{"start":12383.254,"end":12405.243,"text":"這個就直接牽涉到了因為financial Times對台灣很熟悉的Catherine Hill放出這樣子的消息部長你有沒有掌握這個消息是誰放的我不清楚但不會是我們的政府人員吧我瞭解應該不會是我們國防部但是是不是其他政府人員你沒有辦法掌握"},{"start":12406.863,"end":12420.341,"text":"我沒有辦法回答幫國防部以外的人回答我老實講就是說這種嚴肅的事情我認為希望我希望不是我們政府部門放的"},{"start":12421.122,"end":12437.871,"text":"因為對整件事情到底是有幫助還是會造成障礙其實還很難說當然總統府在第一時間說目前沒有新一個階段的討論所以總統府的發言算是否認嗎部長您的理解"},{"start":12438.997,"end":12463.485,"text":"我覺得總統的發言跟我之前的回答是一致的也就是說我們會循台美既有的這一個綿密的制度性的交流的機制來提出我們所要籌購的這一個項目那F35在清單上嗎我沒有辦法對特定的這個任何武器的裝備做下一回答因為我們對任何的這一個個別的武器的裝備我們都會先跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":12464.878,"end":12472.937,"text":"因為我看到總統府這個發言以後我有點驚訝因為去年在國會的時候其實已經有立委問過了"},{"start":12474.384,"end":12497.823,"text":"當然前一任的國防部部長回答的比較率直就是我們曾經有提過採購的需求但是美方沒有同意這個是在立法院公報上面記載的內容就你接任國防部部長以後美國就這件事情的態度有改變嗎還是維持去年的前國防部部長在這個委員會裡面回答立委問題的時候沒有同意"},{"start":12498.558,"end":12504.061,"text":"那個時間的關係我最後只講一件事情強化我國的國防自主防衛能力我相信不分黨派的委員"},{"start":12528.433,"end":12555.025,"text":"大家都支持那只不過在進行相關事件的時候部長您謹慎的態度我基本上是認同的那因此我也希望這一次金融態勢所出現的那個報導不是我們政府人員放話因為我覺得這樣對整件事到底是阻力還是助力恐怕會是一個很大的問號好謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員部長請回接下來進行詢答委員洪孟凱委員"},{"start":12563.649,"end":12590.211,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請顧部長部長好部長延續我們今天一整天的討論其實這一個150億美元的一個軍售大家都關心那你剛剛一直回答一件事情就是說應該是依照臺美綿密的交流以及過去既有的不管是採購的流程採購的機制對不對"},{"start":12592.386,"end":12603.683,"text":"那如果說真的如同您這樣講的話那國內用三大報平面報導頭版頭來處理這件事情會不會就覺得突兀跟奇怪"},{"start":12604.918,"end":12625.02,"text":"對我並不知道這個financial time它的消息來源是怎麼樣部長我先跟你討論的更是一個比較核心的問題啊因為第一國內會大家引發這樣關注其實financial time我想會去看的人不多但是為什麼會突然間大家大量的關注是因為隔一天之後三大報頭版頭處理這個新聞"},{"start":12628.547,"end":12649.365,"text":"我請教三大報頭版頭處理這個新聞如果說只有單純一個報紙可能他是獨家但是三大報全部都用頭版頭處理這個新聞的時候代表是他們某種程度上第一是有權威的消息來源不然的話就是他們可能有經過查證或是經過求證認為說這個是消息是屬實的程度高所以他們會去處理嘛那國防部在"},{"start":12652.532,"end":12679.471,"text":"三大報頭版頭出來的前一天我們相關對於媒體的公關或說相關的這些回應有沒有做出什麼樣的回應我想因為我們對於這樣子不是我們現在所提出來的據我的了解我們沒有這樣子的一個清單提出的情況之下我想我們國防部的立法所以部長您也是看到三大報昨天頭版頭之後你才知道有這件事"},{"start":12680.393,"end":12704.193,"text":"我至少我們國防部沒有提出這樣的一個清單是啊所以我的意思是說你沒有提出這個清單然後結果你身為一個國防部部長你是在昨天上午早上起床的時候看到三大報頭版頭你才知道我們有提出這個清單然後你才去問然後才去追源頭然後發覺說到今天發覺國防部上到下都沒有講過這樣的事情"},{"start":12705.552,"end":12732.958,"text":"我們因為FINANCIAL TIME的意思就是說我們很不合理你會不會覺得現階段有提出去但我們現在已經也曾經說明我想總統也曾經說明了我們現階段並沒有提出這樣子的一個清單給美國或者是未來的川普政府嘛那我一直在強調就是我們循既有的機制會跟美方就任何採購的項目會進行事先的溝通部長這些我都尊重而且我們其實不分黨派委員大家都講嘛"},{"start":12733.618,"end":12759.705,"text":"能夠獲得我國要的國防武器設備先進的我們絕對都支持但是現在的問題點在於是說如果如同你在國會殿堂裡面所答詢的這樣的狀況的話那我覺得這會產生一個很大的資訊落差一個是國內的三大報我想國內三大報他們不會拿他們的媒體的公信力去做"},{"start":12761.289,"end":12770.284,"text":"去做考驗而且是用頭版頭你曾幾何時在最近的新聞裡面看到三大報用頭版頭處理同樣的新聞"},{"start":12772.389,"end":12793.642,"text":"除了總統就職演說這種公開的確定的以外好像沒有啊如果它只是屬於一個小大的消息屬於一個就是沒有被經過證實的消息的話不可能非常不符合邏輯跟常理嘛那再者也有人講是說如果這樣的話會不會我們太早把底牌掀出來未來對於我們跟美國的一個軍購採購的時候會不會"},{"start":12796.288,"end":12809.073,"text":"一百五十億就變成是最基本的一個門檻他可能就認為是說我們至少就一百五十億以上的軍備國防預算要來購買相關武器會不會增加我們之後談判的一些難度"},{"start":12810.598,"end":12830.9,"text":"我的回答其實還是一樣的就是說因為我們要採購任何的項目還是要先跟美方進行溝通啊所以我們不會所以現在部長您如果說連你是負責國防部的部長都是看到報導你才知道這樣消息那這樣資訊的落差到底你覺得說嚴不嚴重啊"},{"start":12832.508,"end":12859.137,"text":"因為我也相信我也相信您所講的喔到目前我相信您所講的是我們都有台美交流綿密的交流機制管道我也認為過去即便今天美國政府共和黨民主黨要共和黨要政黨輪替但我相信中華民國跟美國的一個交流方面也不因為政黨輪替而有所變化嘛我們的制度應該是照走嘛是是所以部長您可以理解本期今天問出來這樣的問題到底"},{"start":12862.422,"end":12884.993,"text":"核心點跟細節您能夠掌握嗎?我沒有辦法進一步評論您剛剛提到了這個所謂相關的報導我想你可能有話也不好說啦感謝稍微一分鐘啦本席最近有另外一個部分是因為很多委員都講到是說待遇的問題那其中我們鄉親也有接受到這個教召"},{"start":12885.66,"end":12902.588,"text":"那現在我不知道說部長有沒有去關心這個火石的部分但是很多的鄉親回來抱怨叫招的火石啊真的不好那我也去查了一下你在今年有因為說叫招的一個提升的這個頻率所以說我們有提高了"},{"start":12903.592,"end":12907.754,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":12919.961,"end":12939.799,"text":"所以也難怪乎我們有鄉親回來之後就講是說他去接受教召真的伙食不好請再要回答好不好部長能不能來了解一下還是我們有沒有什麼樣管道因為97塊我說這個現在一顆便當可能都不只97塊了結果你97塊是要負責三餐那即便是大鍋飯的部分你可能也沒有辦法煮準備太好"},{"start":12940.529,"end":12941.309,"text":"我們從本島的每個月有從418一直到這個南沙有調到一千多"},{"start":12966.988,"end":12994.289,"text":"火石費、教召的部分火石費這個部分教召會跟我們的部隊一起調匯後給本席因為本席查到的是你一個月多少錢平均下來一天97塊好不好那你現在的部分就是我們要求的是說至少你要比照相關辦理或者是你的費用應該要提升好不好接下來進行詢答委員是鄭天才委員"},{"start":13009.444,"end":13031.034,"text":"主席會委員有請部長來部長請部長今年7月18號川普要台灣付保護費而且特別提到要防衛沿在地球另一端的小島實質上很困難"},{"start":13032.954,"end":13040.764,"text":"我們的川普當選總統這個蔡英文執政的期間就花了這個7552.16億的一個台幣來購買軍購"},{"start":13049.293,"end":13074.408,"text":"我們看今年的國防部的預算這個編列了4760億4000多萬比113年度增加415億6000多萬這個有成長這個有它的需要性很重要的這個上次我也跟部長提了因為時間的關係沒有辦法好好談這個我也提了很多次"},{"start":13075.467,"end":13076.528,"text":"自願役的士兵．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．"},{"start":13092.777,"end":13094.959,"text":"臺灣勞工薪資基本工資2萬7千多2024一到四月份勞工平均薪資4萬6千多勞動部"},{"start":13108.803,"end":13130.706,"text":"特別表示部長特別表示這個臺灣薪資的中位數是4.6萬元三分之二約3.1萬所以3.1萬是低薪我們是3萬6比低薪多一些些但是部長你要了解所有的軍人沒有自由"},{"start":13131.84,"end":13149.697,"text":"都要在軍中跟勞工要這樣比他的各方面的勞苦跟他的自由真的是差很多所以一定要務實的增加國軍志願役的薪資什麼時候可以提高"},{"start":13150.951,"end":13171.422,"text":"我們現在正在積極的研議我想我們會很快的提出我們一個方案然後再跟行政院相關的單位來做協調一定要積極這個我已經提了很多次你現在要增加也要到明年的預算我剛剛跟其他委員的推詢的時候也已經提過我們正在"},{"start":13172.563,"end":13174.364,"text":"新資的部分的調高我們國防部本身是贊成的"},{"start":13193.8,"end":13219.633,"text":"好,要積極地協調行政院好,下一個議題這個是自航機場自航機場我提了很多次自航機場我們的鄉親的我們的部落部長可能不知道我們的部落有嘉陸蘭部落有這個富岡部落有石山部落高和山部落"},{"start":13220.59,"end":13244.196,"text":"這些部落本來都在自航機場裏面部長在自航機場裏面因為要蓋自航機場我們就遷移到旁邊遷移到這個自航機場的旁邊遷移過去之後自航空軍基地有關這個噪音的補助噪音的補助"},{"start":13246.533,"end":13273.612,"text":"他就用輪的從富豐里要輪到一直這些里要輪流由輪流補助而且補助什麼呢是這個相關的這些冷氣機這些設備這是過去的一個做法所以要等30年才能輪到在這樣一個情形之下冷氣機大家都已經壞掉了當然就自己買了所以就完全無法受益"},{"start":13274.52,"end":13299.948,"text":"本席包括我們召委他也有提案共同的我們共同的在110年1月20號修正通過把噪音管制法有關軍用航空的這個機場能夠用跟民航的一樣可以用補償補償就是用現金的現金來補助"},{"start":13302.501,"end":13329.85,"text":"這裏面特別授權要定這個辦法國防部在111年1月1號公布施行這個這個辦法軍用機場噪音防治補償的經費但是問題出在哪裡呢到現在雖然施行了我們這些自航機場周邊的這些最鄰近的部落他還是沒有辦法拿到這些現金原因就是因為"},{"start":13332.678,"end":13358.738,"text":"這個12條的第一條的第一計劃第12條的第一計劃軍用機場管理單位以本辦法施行或下一個輪次等於是要在一個里一個里在輪啊不是要輪到何時啊所以這個就有問題了這樣的法規啊部長你是寫法律的這樣的法規有問題所以到現在為止啊他們還是領不到"},{"start":13359.69,"end":13382.501,"text":"也要等幾十幾年以後才有機會要不要修法要修修這個辦法修這個辦法好快阿委員我是志源是市長跟委員報告因為我們這個我們那個補償規定實施之後它其實有兩種選擇一種可以選擇以人為主的現金補償另外一個就是以戶為主的設施補助好那我我簡單問是這三個部落"},{"start":13385.39,"end":13412.636,"text":"至航機場周邊的三個部落最靠近的噪音最大的什麼時候可以開始領到現金是因為他是以那個三個集市來做補償我那邊剛有兩個基地一個有現金一個沒有現金有處理的方法我覺得方法要跟政經常委員講一下他那個是地方政府要有一個認定就是以補償的公平性一個輪次找完之後會到下一個輪次再做討論就是要再"},{"start":13415.217,"end":13434.91,"text":"上次一樣一個禮一個禮輪到下一次有沒有看到施行後下一個輪次部長這個部分你好好瞭解鄭委員這個案子請國防部把辦法定出來我跟鄭天台委員一起關心好不好是謝謝不是要修要修這個棒要修這個棒謝謝那請鄭天台委員請回各位請回謝謝來我們接下來進行詢答委員是楊瓊英委員謝謝"},{"start":13447.705,"end":13448.806,"text":"謝謝主席。邀請部長。來,部長請。市長、議員、委員好。"},{"start":13457.722,"end":13485.651,"text":"是部長好明年度中央政府總預算我們的預算達到6470億那麼其中均是投資預算的部分幅度最大大概佔了GDP的2.45%當然國防預算是依照我們考慮防衛的作戰需求跟國家的財政狀況去年底國防安全研究院"},{"start":13486.351,"end":13500.641,"text":"他進行了一個民調民意調查他說根據民調結果有將近六成贊成未來我們的國防預算提高到GDP的3%請教國防部長達到GDP的3%是我們政府的目標嗎"},{"start":13509.137,"end":13528.859,"text":"我現在沒有辦法明確的回答是說我們是不是能夠達到3%但是我們當然會希望是你們的目標嗎國防的經費還是能夠持續穩健的增加當然還要整體的財政的裕度對所以這是國防部的智庫所提出那請問這3%是不是我們的目標"},{"start":13530.168,"end":13532.793,"text":"跟委員報告齁如果你讓我能夠詳細一點講的話因為114年度我們還有904億的特別預算那115年會降到610"},{"start":13543.447,"end":13564.406,"text":"六百九十二億那到了一百一十六年的時候這個特別預算沒有了之後呢那如果沒有再編列特別預設的話那麼我們要再增加國防預算的時候年度的預算會大幅的增加那這個時候我們現在已經在在年這個大概十五點二左右那如果年度預算再增加的話"},{"start":13564.926,"end":13583.583,"text":"可能會增加到相當的弧度所以我剛剛有提出來就是說在116年開始我們如果不排擠這個其他的預算還要持續穩健的增加國防預算的話要可能不能夠完全排除說另外提出一個我們認為"},{"start":13585.304,"end":13607.779,"text":"週延的一個特別預算的可能性那這個時候再希望大院能夠支持但是它一定是要符合我們自我防衛能力提升的一個需要來建置這樣子好換句話說是持續的在增長我們的目標大概是如此不管你的來源116年這個特別預算終止之後你還是希望仍舊有一個"},{"start":13609.409,"end":13631.075,"text":"持續穩健成長的一個目標這樣子所以本席要請教這個歐布萊恩在6月份的時候他也表示他希望是要提升到5%所以本席要請教剛剛你回答得非常的清楚也就是我們是穩健性的以防衛為基準的來增加"},{"start":13631.795,"end":13650.205,"text":"那換句話說116年的特別預算到了之後那你也希望未來還是有特別預算的方式來運作所以要請教川普在選舉的時候他提出了要我們叫保護會所以你穩健的成長是不是就是這個保護會的概念"},{"start":13653.15,"end":13677.575,"text":"我沒有辦法幫這個我們即將就任的川普先生來回答這個合會的保護會但是我想我們就我們的立場就是說我們會有多元的籌購來提升自我防衛能力的這個管道來那這個也當然包括像美國從事軍事採購"},{"start":13679.366,"end":13702.312,"text":"那充斥軍事採購的這些必要的武器裝備甚至訓練等等都要符合我們作戰的實際需求嗎我只能夠這樣講那我們呢過去我覺得到未來也是如此我們都是根據既有的軍事交流機制然後我們會探尋美方的意願我們會探尋那美方覺得OK那才能夠進行採購"},{"start":13704.533,"end":13719.585,"text":"總歸一句話就是以防衛為基準點到目前回答的方向是如此對然後還要跟美國政府來進行溝通當然所以因此本期要請教來90年以後我們出生的義南在113年開始我們開始回復這個徵集"},{"start":13724.929,"end":13731.032,"text":"長輩兵役一年所以本席要請教110年我們最高是16.5萬人到112、111你減了將近5000多人各別在這樣的情況之下我們創了新低113年6月底我們降到15.2萬人所以請教部長這也是107年來最低的請教部長"},{"start":13753.183,"end":13769.719,"text":"面對自願役人數持續地一直遞減的情況（你要怎麼改善（好請再要回答我想分兩點第一點因為我們的現在的預算顏額今年之所以大家一直講說降五千多個事實上並不是真的說一下子"},{"start":13771.899,"end":13792.805,"text":"是因為過去在預算顏額的部分變得比較高一點所以我們現在務實的編列所以看起來預算顏額但是第二點我們必須承認實際的這個顏額數呢確實是有降低的一個狀況那所以剛剛才會提到就自願意的這個部分我們要調高他的待遇這是我們現在努力的一個方向什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾"},{"start":13794.726,"end":13806.358,"text":"呃 我 我想 呃 我們會盡快的就 因為提高待遇這是大家的共識嘛你什麼時候可以告訴 告訴社會大眾呃 我 我想我們會盡快啦應該應該 多久時間 你的盡快是多久你給一個時間點嘛"},{"start":13808.669,"end":13826.04,"text":"我想如果能夠快一點的話我們應該是最近這一個月以內應該是可以一個月內告訴社會大眾包括另外教召的部分很多人到服務處來講一個月內是方向方向一個月內一天內97塊預算還沒有編來教召一天97塊那怎麼辦"},{"start":13830.558,"end":13830.758,"text":"請說明一下"},{"start":13848.305,"end":13875.914,"text":"就是每日本島98元明年調高到115（明年調高到115年已經編列預算在114年的預算有98調高到115（每日好謝謝謝謝楊俊逸為的關心謝謝剛才那個要講清楚我看聽起來你們是要從中衛宿去思考調整的方向那方向出來因為還沒有編列預算對對可能說下個月就有了"},{"start":13877.457,"end":13883.913,"text":"我們只是提出一個擬議的方向而已這個還要行政院所以我們只是提出一個方向而已"},{"start":13894.539,"end":13911.768,"text":"臨時民委員臨時民委員臨時民委員不在高金素美委員高金素美委員高金素美委員不在鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在陳培宇委員陳培宇委員陳培宇委員不在傅坤祺委員傅坤祺委員傅坤祺委員不在"},{"start":13912.688,"end":13935.887,"text":"今日已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林益君委員黃仁委員陳培宇委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報請相關機關已書面於兩周內答覆委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分"},{"start":13936.427,"end":13961.336,"text":"或要求補充資料者亦請相關單位已書面於兩週內提供．．與委員另約定期限者從其鎖定以上如有涉及機密部分請確實依相關保密規定辦理114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分．．不含國家安全局部分．．"},{"start":13963.177,"end":13985.126,"text":"附屬單位預算暨三項作業基金及一項資本計劃基金案本日完成報告及詢答11月20號下午5點以前截止收案12月9號進行預算審查本日會議到此結束大家辛苦了散會"}]}},{"id":"16255","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16255","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d161a8535b05d3ed369e13353c436ea85edb79b8bfb08e79905874e3e115270c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會（事由：「大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討」公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:31:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:46:00+08:00","duration":11683,"影片長度":"03:14:43","委員發言時間":"08:31:17 - 11:46:00","features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1415.57346875,"end":1417.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1773.62721875,"end":1790.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1791.2784687500002,"end":1925.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1927.0209687500003,"end":2114.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2115.16034375,"end":2115.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2116.00409375,"end":2165.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2166.3590937500003,"end":2185.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2185.2928437500004,"end":2213.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2213.59221875,"end":2213.6090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2213.6259687500005,"end":2324.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2326.2497187500003,"end":2479.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2479.60971875,"end":2543.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2544.0215937500006,"end":2544.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2544.59534375,"end":2545.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2546.33346875,"end":2561.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2561.94284375,"end":2575.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2575.84784375,"end":2591.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2591.8115937500006,"end":2606.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2606.8640937500004,"end":2697.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2698.37721875,"end":2727.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2733.4434687500006,"end":2736.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2736.8184687500006,"end":2737.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2738.5059687500006,"end":2741.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2741.4422187500004,"end":2744.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2744.5134687500004,"end":2755.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2756.49471875,"end":2759.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2760.27471875,"end":2761.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2761.96221875,"end":2769.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2770.34909375,"end":2773.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2774.0447187500004,"end":2775.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2776.18784375,"end":2780.5078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2780.9128437500003,"end":2782.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2783.37659375,"end":2787.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2787.4772187500002,"end":2811.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2812.60409375,"end":2813.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2813.6334687500002,"end":2814.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2814.81471875,"end":2822.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2822.89784375,"end":2834.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2834.23784375,"end":2836.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2837.5284687500007,"end":2841.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2841.93284375,"end":2851.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2851.4503437500007,"end":2853.9140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2854.7409687500003,"end":2860.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2860.86659375,"end":2867.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2867.8190937500003,"end":2872.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2873.33721875,"end":2882.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2883.10784375,"end":2901.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2901.60284375,"end":2902.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2902.9022187500004,"end":2904.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2904.80909375,"end":2919.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2920.28346875,"end":2922.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2923.2197187500005,"end":2937.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2937.83346875,"end":2941.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2941.9509687500004,"end":2952.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2953.81409375,"end":2955.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2956.4803437500004,"end":2963.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2964.39471875,"end":2964.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2964.9178437500004,"end":2970.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2971.44846875,"end":2992.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2993.26784375,"end":2996.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2996.35596875,"end":3001.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3002.1103437500005,"end":3004.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3005.1647187500002,"end":3005.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3007.00409375,"end":3009.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3009.78846875,"end":3016.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3016.70721875,"end":3018.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3019.2722187500003,"end":3019.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3020.1159687500003,"end":3023.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3023.59221875,"end":3026.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3027.6084687500006,"end":3041.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3043.28534375,"end":3055.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3056.1103437500005,"end":3057.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3057.4434687500006,"end":3060.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3061.0547187500006,"end":3063.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3064.4803437500004,"end":3068.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3068.8678437500002,"end":3080.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3080.4440937500003,"end":3087.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3087.34596875,"end":3097.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3098.33159375,"end":3104.2715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3104.64284375,"end":3106.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3106.63409375,"end":3109.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3109.77284375,"end":3115.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3116.33721875,"end":3120.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3121.4503437500007,"end":3134.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3134.96721875,"end":3145.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3145.9190937500007,"end":3147.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3147.99471875,"end":3154.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3154.8797187500004,"end":3162.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3164.24534375,"end":3215.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3216.5240937500002,"end":3647.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3648.27096875,"end":3685.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3691.35284375,"end":3741.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3742.8722187500007,"end":3768.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3769.8722187500007,"end":3806.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3807.48659375,"end":3838.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3839.14409375,"end":3880.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3881.7028437500003,"end":3883.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3884.45346875,"end":3899.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3900.3497187500006,"end":3902.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3903.26909375,"end":3914.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3915.19971875,"end":3916.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3916.70159375,"end":3923.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3923.9747187500006,"end":3932.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3933.6609687500004,"end":3934.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3934.5047187500004,"end":3959.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3944.05596875,"end":3944.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3960.0703437500006,"end":3965.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3966.6347187500005,"end":3976.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3976.5909687500007,"end":3980.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3980.70846875,"end":3980.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3981.06284375,"end":3983.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3983.2734687500006,"end":3989.3653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3989.3653437500006,"end":3989.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3990.58034375,"end":3990.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3990.59721875,"end":4011.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4012.3153437500005,"end":4016.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4022.1365937500004,"end":4031.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4032.0928437500006,"end":4036.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4037.23971875,"end":4044.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4045.5253437500005,"end":4046.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4046.7234687500004,"end":4047.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4047.4997187500003,"end":4049.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4049.5753437500007,"end":4054.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4055.14409375,"end":4063.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4063.4297187500006,"end":4069.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4069.47096875,"end":4074.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4074.66846875,"end":4111.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4112.249093750001,"end":4152.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4152.968468749999,"end":4166.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4166.670968750001,"end":4209.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4209.600968750001,"end":4233.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4234.120343750001,"end":4235.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4235.58846875,"end":4250.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4250.4384687500005,"end":4275.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4275.936593750001,"end":4294.769093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4295.241593750001,"end":4319.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4319.760968750001,"end":4415.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4416.032843749999,"end":4441.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4441.98659375,"end":4442.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4443.06659375,"end":4450.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4451.757218750001,"end":4482.267218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4484.83221875,"end":4549.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4549.85159375,"end":4612.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4613.26784375,"end":4753.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4754.325968749999,"end":4851.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4852.18409375,"end":4899.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4899.34971875,"end":4919.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4921.23659375,"end":4952.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4961.31471875,"end":4965.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4965.735968749999,"end":4968.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4968.638468749999,"end":4969.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4970.292218750001,"end":4971.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4971.67596875,"end":4979.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4979.87721875,"end":4988.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4988.21346875,"end":4999.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5000.17784375,"end":5035.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5035.64909375,"end":5038.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5038.112843750001,"end":5065.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5066.294093750001,"end":5076.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5076.655343750001,"end":5086.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5086.61159375,"end":5087.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5087.69159375,"end":5089.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5090.03721875,"end":5092.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5092.83846875,"end":5096.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5097.10784375,"end":5097.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5098.255343750001,"end":5103.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5103.975968750001,"end":5105.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5106.186593750001,"end":5110.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5112.092843750001,"end":5117.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5118.06659375,"end":5121.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5122.18409375,"end":5123.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5123.280968749999,"end":5128.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5128.394093750001,"end":5129.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5130.33471875,"end":5133.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5134.97534375,"end":5156.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5157.7059687500005,"end":5166.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5166.464093750001,"end":5168.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5169.0965937500005,"end":5173.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5174.41221875,"end":5179.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5179.50846875,"end":5192.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5193.413468750001,"end":5198.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5198.07096875,"end":5198.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5199.91034375,"end":5200.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5200.65284375,"end":5206.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5206.812218749999,"end":5222.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5223.687218749999,"end":5224.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5224.581593750001,"end":5253.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5254.04534375,"end":5260.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5261.014718750001,"end":5267.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5268.15284375,"end":5269.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5269.907843749999,"end":5274.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5274.734093749999,"end":5277.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5278.24409375,"end":5288.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5288.68971875,"end":5289.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5291.372843749999,"end":5291.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5292.14909375,"end":5306.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5307.454718749999,"end":5318.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5319.419093750001,"end":5322.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5322.979718750001,"end":5330.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5331.130343750001,"end":5345.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5345.794718749999,"end":5346.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5346.30096875,"end":5346.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5351.41409375,"end":5352.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5352.15659375,"end":5372.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5374.43159375,"end":5383.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5383.4090937500005,"end":5396.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5397.4490937499995,"end":5436.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5437.79721875,"end":5442.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5443.55159375,"end":5444.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5444.68221875,"end":5470.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5470.821593750001,"end":5526.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5527.116593750001,"end":5529.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5529.360968749999,"end":5532.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5533.00596875,"end":5554.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5554.639718750001,"end":5566.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5566.6884687500005,"end":5584.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5584.94721875,"end":5588.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5588.6259687500005,"end":5594.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5594.802218750001,"end":5606.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5606.985968749999,"end":5615.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5616.06471875,"end":5624.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5623.624718749999,"end":5623.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5625.1434687500005,"end":5645.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5646.270968750001,"end":5656.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5656.4803437499995,"end":5678.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5679.075968749999,"end":5683.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5683.64909375,"end":5687.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5688.15471875,"end":5689.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5690.2978437500005,"end":5696.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5696.6259687500005,"end":5699.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5699.69721875,"end":5735.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5735.202218750001,"end":5741.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5741.73284375,"end":5744.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5744.97284375,"end":5753.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5753.8153437500005,"end":5755.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5755.823468750001,"end":5766.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5767.062218749999,"end":5781.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5782.04721875,"end":5782.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5783.279093749999,"end":5812.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5813.670968750001,"end":5982.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5982.741593750001,"end":5988.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5989.18784375,"end":6019.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6019.64721875,"end":6100.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6101.08596875,"end":6134.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6134.9540937500005,"end":6162.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6164.198468750001,"end":6244.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6246.85221875,"end":6293.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6293.22471875,"end":6293.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6294.49034375,"end":6295.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6296.059718750001,"end":6298.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6298.590968750001,"end":6300.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6300.649718750001,"end":6316.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6316.83284375,"end":6331.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6331.51409375,"end":6359.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6359.982218749999,"end":6371.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6372.58784375,"end":6397.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6397.88346875,"end":6450.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6450.735968750001,"end":6471.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6471.52596875,"end":6499.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6500.41596875,"end":6504.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6506.06909375,"end":6509.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6510.085343750001,"end":6526.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6526.92659375,"end":6558.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6558.735968750001,"end":6562.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6562.51596875,"end":6585.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6585.921593749999,"end":6601.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6602.45909375,"end":6603.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6603.70784375,"end":6611.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6611.30159375,"end":6613.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6613.79909375,"end":6626.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6626.286593750001,"end":6660.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6661.859093749999,"end":6691.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6692.6728437500005,"end":6698.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6698.984093749999,"end":6746.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6746.520968750001,"end":6759.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6760.1053437499995,"end":6763.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6763.159718750001,"end":6764.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6764.374718749999,"end":6835.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6836.093468749999,"end":6953.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6953.712218750001,"end":6969.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6970.030343750001,"end":6980.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6981.927218750001,"end":7018.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7421.31846875,"end":7426.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7427.427218750001,"end":7432.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7439.796593750001,"end":7442.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7442.68221875,"end":7449.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7450.51221875,"end":7451.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7451.389718750001,"end":7464.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7464.72096875,"end":7470.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7471.167218750001,"end":7474.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7474.74471875,"end":7479.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7480.634093750001,"end":7490.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7490.624093750001,"end":7505.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7506.267218750001,"end":7506.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7508.12346875,"end":7523.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7524.745343750001,"end":7621.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7621.590968750001,"end":7623.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7623.90284375,"end":7633.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7634.36534375,"end":7650.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7651.5947187500005,"end":7672.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7672.23284375,"end":7726.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7726.94159375,"end":7740.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7742.382218750001,"end":7763.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7764.70784375,"end":7864.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7864.911593750001,"end":7893.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7894.206593750001,"end":7936.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7937.372843749999,"end":7965.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7965.67221875,"end":8049.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8049.94596875,"end":8070.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8071.073468750001,"end":8118.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8118.47534375,"end":8161.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8161.60784375,"end":8204.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8204.74034375,"end":8225.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8226.42471875,"end":8258.149718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8258.38596875,"end":8319.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8321.66721875,"end":8360.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8364.141593750002,"end":8681.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8681.50971875,"end":8836.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8837.60346875,"end":8872.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8872.872218750003,"end":8876.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8876.31471875,"end":8878.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8878.64346875,"end":8879.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8879.47034375,"end":8887.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8888.110343750002,"end":8889.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8890.30409375,"end":8892.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8892.97034375,"end":8893.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8893.44284375,"end":8894.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8895.51846875,"end":8899.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8900.125343750002,"end":8905.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8905.390343750001,"end":8907.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8907.617843750002,"end":8913.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8914.55346875,"end":8921.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8922.19784375,"end":8923.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8924.425343750001,"end":8940.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8941.199093750001,"end":8973.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8973.51471875,"end":8993.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8994.051593750002,"end":8999.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9000.04221875,"end":9006.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9006.25221875,"end":9008.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9008.969093750002,"end":9012.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9013.407218750002,"end":9038.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9039.090968750003,"end":9039.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9039.58034375,"end":9046.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9046.617218750001,"end":9047.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9047.207843750002,"end":9059.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9059.88096875,"end":9070.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9070.37721875,"end":9090.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9091.184093750002,"end":9119.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9120.124718750001,"end":9131.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9131.835968750001,"end":9133.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9134.485343750002,"end":9140.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9140.745968750001,"end":9146.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9146.46659375,"end":9159.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9160.03409375,"end":9160.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9161.82284375,"end":9163.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9163.645343750002,"end":9177.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9178.191593750002,"end":9180.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9180.402218750001,"end":9194.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9194.66159375,"end":9225.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9226.386593750001,"end":9230.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9230.95971875,"end":9252.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9252.72846875,"end":9260.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9261.48659375,"end":9297.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9299.219093750002,"end":9325.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9326.117843750002,"end":9330.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9330.74159375,"end":9516.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9517.46346875,"end":9517.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9517.919093750003,"end":9566.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9567.632843750001,"end":9623.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9623.691593750002,"end":9629.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9630.070343750001,"end":9630.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9631.30221875,"end":9661.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9662.75721875,"end":9679.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9680.94846875,"end":9692.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9692.828468750002,"end":9745.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9745.815968750001,"end":9747.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9748.262843750003,"end":9748.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9749.157218750002,"end":9767.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9769.32284375,"end":9811.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9812.117843750002,"end":9975.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9975.99096875,"end":10011.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10011.765968750002,"end":10012.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10013.554718750001,"end":10039.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10041.027218750001,"end":10131.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10131.578468750002,"end":10162.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10163.25284375,"end":10208.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10208.950343750003,"end":10259.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10263.70971875,"end":10280.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10280.88846875,"end":10306.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10307.129093750002,"end":10337.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10338.887843750003,"end":10371.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10371.54096875,"end":10371.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10371.59159375,"end":10381.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10382.30721875,"end":10431.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10432.898468750001,"end":10515.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10516.61534375,"end":10523.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10524.816593750002,"end":10534.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10534.587218750003,"end":10548.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10548.74534375,"end":10614.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10616.12721875,"end":10616.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10618.82721875,"end":10622.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10623.265343750001,"end":10655.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10656.32346875,"end":10658.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10658.702843750001,"end":10665.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10667.140343750001,"end":10717.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10719.149093750002,"end":10722.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10722.70971875,"end":10731.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10732.007843750001,"end":10732.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10732.68284375,"end":10733.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10734.42096875,"end":10735.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10735.551593750002,"end":10739.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10739.196593750003,"end":10739.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10740.985343750002,"end":10741.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10741.035968750002,"end":10742.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10741.52534375,"end":10741.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10743.22971875,"end":10797.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10798.10721875,"end":10952.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10953.087218750003,"end":11047.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11047.55346875,"end":11047.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11047.77284375,"end":11047.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11047.840343750002,"end":11047.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11047.90784375,"end":11047.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11047.941593750002,"end":11047.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11047.97534375,"end":11079.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11079.39659375,"end":11106.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11107.864718750003,"end":11417.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11418.17909375,"end":11432.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11432.87721875,"end":11569.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11569.71659375,"end":11640.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11641.300343750001,"end":11650.328468750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1415.572,"end":1416.882,"text":"MING PAO CANADA"},{"start":1773.626,"end":1775.588,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會．"},{"start":1793.666,"end":1805.259,"text":"大學自2005年全文修正以來,事實上已奠定我們現在的高教治理模式,二十年來都沒有大幅修改。"},{"start":1806.38,"end":1811.906,"text":"主要是要脫離威權的控制,可是從我上一屆擔任立委以來,高教的陳情就不斷,比如說有發生學校的長期欠薪影響教師的勞動權,或者前年有報導者揭露我持續追蹤的學校違法"},{"start":1829.784,"end":1850.151,"text":"讓外籍學生成為學工的案件近期我也再次在部分私校的僑生身上發現居然有學校沒收學生的護照學生實習變成跟移工的界線不明以及很多來自教授學生權益的申訴案"},{"start":1850.751,"end":1854.194,"text":"外籍生專班時期查核的標準與機制,以及不斷用個案的處理來協助"},{"start":1873.533,"end":1873.553,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":1889.281,"end":1890.483,"text":"高教治理情形問題調查"},{"start":1904.58,"end":1904.6,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":1927.079,"end":1953.261,"text":"其中有九成的學生會認為目前的校務會議對校長的問責跟監督功能有待改進有三分之一的學校在與學生權益攸關的重要會議中完全沒有設置學生代表在校長領選的過程中有九成的大學沒有設置學生代表或者是學生的影響力不足"},{"start":1954.162,"end":1981.505,"text":"許多學校對校長續任跟不續任退場完全缺乏規範有近半數的學生會認為目前的大學受到的公共監督不足從這些學生的角度而且是高度關心大學治理的學生的角度發現高教治理有以下四大問題第一個是大學缺乏公共監督機制第二個是校務會議功能失靈"},{"start":1982.185,"end":1984.767,"text":"學生參與與權益保障不足校長任免機制待完整上一屆在三黨共識下大學法學生權版本順利送出教文委員會內容包括"},{"start":2005.64,"end":2018.647,"text":"提升校務會議的學生代表到五分之一教師代表中未兼行政主管職務者不得少於教師代表人數的二分之一明文保障學生能夠代表參與各級會議與學生事務相關的學生代表"},{"start":2023.57,"end":2024.431,"text":"公聽會：完整會議公聽會：完整會議公聽會：完整會議"},{"start":2041.627,"end":2060.661,"text":"大學校長、老師代表、家長代表或學生代表可以再表達意見也是我們今天公聽會的目的關於產學合作涉及企業跟大學的關係今年年中楊交大就爆發爭議在客家學院沒有產學合作需求的情況下"},{"start":2061.482,"end":2061.822,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":2084.264,"end":2084.324,"text":"公聽會主席"},{"start":2115.205,"end":2115.225,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":2135.246,"end":2162.543,"text":"專科以上學校產學合作實施辦法和現行國家重點領域產學合作及人才培育創新條例中對產學合作的定義及相關規範在制度及實務運作上出現了什麼問題跟亂象第三點針對上述問題跟亂象有何解方以及有什麼方案可以維護高教的公共性跟師生權益跟高教品質現在我們介紹"},{"start":2163.283,"end":2163.403,"text":"與會委員及貴賓"},{"start":2185.823,"end":2208.951,"text":"還有靜怡大學的陳正貴監察人謝謝還有全國教師公會總聯合會的侯俊良理事長他應該簽到了應該在外頭等一下會進來還有高雄科技大學機械工程系的許光誠教授謝謝許教授全國教師公會總聯合會的楊義飛副秘書長謝謝"},{"start":2214.234,"end":2229.769,"text":"國立中山大學的校長李志鵬 校長好國立科技大學校院協會的理事長嚴嘉裕 嚴理事長好佛光大學的校長趙寒傑 趙校長好"},{"start":2233.353,"end":2236.915,"text":"台灣教育人員產業工會理事長 楊義豐私立大學校院協進會理事長 何明果代表教育部 教育部政務次長 葉秉成"},{"start":2256.326,"end":2270.873,"text":"高教司長 廖高賢 廖司長好還有技術及職業教育司的司長 楊育慧 楊司長好還有高教司的科長 紀盈茹 紀科長好"},{"start":2272.293,"end":2272.534,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":2290.186,"end":2293.367,"text":"以簽名先後順序為準現場的發言跟書面資料：立法院會做成記錄：刊登公報那在場委員如果有意見發表請在10點鐘以前來前面登記我們會在會議中進行穿插並以在場委員的登記順序發言委員如果要發言請到主席台登記那現在我們就先請教育部的政務次長葉秉成就現行的規定"},{"start":2319.578,"end":2347.971,"text":"執行狀況相關問題提出說明時間6分鐘主席各位委員女士先生大家好今天本人應邀就立法院教育及文化委員會召開公聽會聆聽各位先進著見自感榮幸那我想一開始我想幾件事情可能要稍微澄清一下剛才這個主席有提到就是說這有學校這個扣著這個學生的這個護照"},{"start":2349.111,"end":2371.137,"text":"本部從109學年度就已經要求大學不可以幫學生扣所有的證件所以目前這個事情不是大專院校這是高值端的我想這個先必須要澄清因為今天是在討論大學在大學目前沒有這種扣學生護照這個事情"},{"start":2372.617,"end":2399.639,"text":"那另外我想也要藉這個機會表達一下就是我們在討論提我想這個教育部還有我們這個很多夥伴我們其實如何兼顧大學自主跟學生的這個教學的品質這個兩個都兼顧之下去監管這個大學其實我們都是非常的敬敬業業所以今天我們也很虛心就教想要來聽有什麼更好的做法這是我們今天來聽但是我也必須說我們也希望藉這個機會來表達就是在討論提綱裡面"},{"start":2400.74,"end":2401.02,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2421.675,"end":2443.573,"text":"高等教育一直是國家發展的重要核心而大學更是以研究學術培育人才提升文化、服務社會促進國家發展為宗旨透過健全的治理制度與不斷創新的運作模式才能提供師生優質的教研環境引領大專院校邁向卓越與永續成長然而在面對產業、社會與"},{"start":2446.636,"end":2460.735,"text":"與教育需求不斷變化的時代高教議題不論是在校務會議的組成、學生的公共參與、教師權益的保障、校長遴選制度、產學合作與人才培育等方面皆面臨相關挑戰"},{"start":2461.776,"end":2478.882,"text":"如何提升我國高教辦學績效﹐強化師生參與決策的影響力﹐為學校創造更加和諧而富有活力的校園環境﹐不僅是大專院校提升競爭力的契機﹐也是社會和經濟有序發展的動力"},{"start":2480.323,"end":2494.477,"text":"為維護高教公共性、師生權益跟高教品質以下警告大學法未來修法面向、精進產學合作以及強化大學公共性及財務監管等議題說明如下一"},{"start":2495.037,"end":2517.313,"text":"大學法未來修法面向,近期立法委員及相關學生團體皆關注學生參與公共事務議題之探討本部曾於111年9月至11月辦理至少9場座談會目前仍持續針對學生參與校務、校長遴選、學生代表組成及人數等議題收集意見"},{"start":2518.614,"end":2542.402,"text":"對於暢通校園內各團體的發聲管道並讓學生得以參與校內公共事務本部樂見其成為其修法推動更為周延本部會持續與各學生團體、教師團體及大專業院校進行廣泛交流徵詢各界意見以尋求共識並作為後續政策研擬參考"},{"start":2544.059,"end":2559.069,"text":"二、精進產學合作本部會促使大學發揮教育、訓練、研發、服務之功能制定專科以上學校產學合作實施辦法及國家重點領域產學合作及人才培育創新條例"},{"start":2562.591,"end":2586.398,"text":"針對產學合作有關議題本部持續透過相關函文提醒各校及研究學院應確實依私立學校法、國立財產法專科以上學校產學合作實施辦法國有公用不動產收益原則及創新條例等有關規定辦理產學合作及各項運作注意事項相關運作資訊亦應定期檢視並適時於網站揭露"},{"start":2592.04,"end":2605.917,"text":"對於產學合作相關事項堂有涉及建物或不動產處理本部也會持續督導各校確實依據國有財產法等有關規定辦理並應符合教育目的之用途"},{"start":2607.947,"end":2630.027,"text":"強化大學公共性及財務監管為因應高等教育發展趨勢提升教育品質本部已訂有國立大學校院校務基金設置條例國立大專校院校務基金管理及監督辦法每年也會定期派員抽查國立大學之預算執行及受本部補助委辦計畫之經費運用情形"},{"start":2632.449,"end":2654.636,"text":"本部也持續鼓勵大學與校內各團體建立良善溝通管道共同維護校務資訊的共同公開性與透明性私立學校部分本部則須透過私立學校法及相關執法訂有有關機制要求學校法人及所設私立學校需建立內部控制制度並報法人或學校主管機關備查"},{"start":2656.116,"end":2677.353,"text":"為提升大學教學品質﹐本部自107年起﹐辦理高等教育深耕計畫﹐並自109年起﹐辦理高教公共性減核機制﹐作為高教公共性減核補助經費參與之一﹐其聚焦提供積極性的公平受教機會與資源﹐引導大學落實教育促進社會流動積極性任務"},{"start":2680.715,"end":2697.291,"text":"最後感謝各位委員及專家學者對高等教育發展議題的關注本部將秉持開放的態度認真聽取各位委員、民間團體、專家學者及各位的寶貴建議並作為未來政策評估及推動的重要參考依據謝謝各位"},{"start":2700.445,"end":2709.231,"text":"謝謝葉秉成市長的代表教育部的報告我們現在補介紹一下剛剛現場現在有臺灣高等教育產業工會的劉梅君秘書長已經剛剛報到謝謝接下來我們就請簽名順序第一位的專家學者全國教育產業總工會的林碩傑理事長前來發言"},{"start":2734.002,"end":2755.428,"text":"主席 各位先進 大家好我們今天針對這個大學法裡面有關這個師生權益的部分尤其是針對校務會議的這個區塊來做一些探討的話那我們全教廠有一些看法就是"},{"start":2756.988,"end":2782.094,"text":"有關這個大學的校會議的代表裡面固然就是學生的代表的比例或者是參與當然是現在受到各界所重視固然是重要的不過我們發現就是說其實教師代表應該也蠻重要我們認為說教師代表應該要過半尤其是我們的"},{"start":2783.427,"end":2811.766,"text":"看法跟教育部的含釋不一樣我們是認為說在大學裡面非監行政跟非監主管的教師代表應該要過半而不是把非監主管的部分也納入教師代表的部分我們認為這個部分蠻重要的尤其是為了要符合所謂的教授治校還有效益民主這個部分"},{"start":2812.605,"end":2812.705,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":2843.451,"end":2850.659,"text":"立法院法治局在2019年5月份發表《我國大學教師薪資制度相關問題之研析》"},{"start":2854.81,"end":2865.617,"text":"依據中央研究院的統計資料世界各國的大學教授月薪在美國是21萬多英國是29萬多德國18萬多日本24萬多韓國21萬多香港26萬多台灣是9萬多我們再依據教育部在111年2月9號以這個臺教人士日曆11100128"},{"start":2883.097,"end":2883.117,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":2901.613,"end":2911.485,"text":"公立學校公立學校公立學校公立學校公立學校公立學校公立學校公立學校"},{"start":2920.356,"end":2939.931,"text":"因為我們依據教育部的資料去查詢教育部112學年度的資料那112學年度是到137月31號截止我們發現這是在市立大學及技專院校他們編制內專業講師的月薪跟公立學校講師來比較的話"},{"start":2942.014,"end":2954.06,"text":"有1所沒有達到70%,未達7成有2所未達80%,5所未達90%有33所是介於100%跟90%之間私下編制內專任助理教授的月薪有3所沒有達到80%有5所未達到90%,有37所是介於100%跟90%之間"},{"start":2971.696,"end":2978.281,"text":"施效編制內副教授有3所未達80%,4所未達90%,37所介於90%與100%之間施效編制內專任教授的月薪有7所未達90%,32所介於100%與90%之間"},{"start":2993.485,"end":3018.535,"text":"同樣我們查詢教育部的資料在市立大學跟計專院校他們的編制外的講師、助理教授、副教授跟教授部分也是有很多都沒有達到公立學校的標準因為時間有限,我這邊就不再贅述專業技術人員也是一樣"},{"start":3020.171,"end":3040.762,"text":"包括講師、藝術教授的月薪也滿多都沒有達到公立學校的標準我們這邊的看法是我們大學教授月薪其實已經低於很多先進國家、鄰近國家那私立院校這些更低的話其實他們勞動條件的劣勢應該要受到重視"},{"start":3044.063,"end":3055.232,"text":"私校基建老師的薪資公開資訊,包括高院科技大學、明道、環球、大同技術學院的專任教師的薪資當時董事會沒有來扮演救火隊來照顧他們,讓大家覺得很不解兼任教師的終點費"},{"start":3069.062,"end":3096.736,"text":"教育部在1130、21號合併公益大專院兼任教師中點被資給標準教授是1035、副教授是890、助理教授是830、講師是755業監部教授是1080、副教授是925、助理教授是870、講師是805可是我們依據教育部在1、1、2懸停度就是1、3、7月31號截止的資料"},{"start":3098.933,"end":3120.49,"text":"105所的私立大專業校,有104所沒有達到這個標準,只有一所部分達到那夜間的終點費的部分呢,103所的私立大專業校這個也是一樣,只有106所有達到,唯一一所有達到的話是只有臺北醫學大學那這個部分我們是認為說私立大專業校兼任教師的待遇"},{"start":3121.491,"end":3143.556,"text":"本來就要低於專任教師﹖他們也沒有續聘的保障﹖隨時可能會被解雇﹖權益不如專任教師﹖其實這個部分長期受到忽視﹖應該也要受到主管機關的正視﹖另外一個就是家族企業化部分﹖就是施立大專業院校﹖他們的校長董事會之配偶跟三點卿﹖陰卿﹖在校內"},{"start":3145.95,"end":3146.471,"text":"主席"},{"start":3165.078,"end":3178.205,"text":"非常謝謝林碩傑,全國教育產業總工會的理事長他很認真的準備了分析了很多教育部的資料除了他主張非兼主管的老師在校務會中應該佔一半之外他也認為台灣的大學老師的薪水太低,比起國際來講的話"},{"start":3185.248,"end":3207.556,"text":"私立大學的老師在整理的很多都沒有達到公立大學的標準甚至七成、八成、九成的都有這個也的確是很大的問題因為賴總統已經補助了私立大學的學費事實上私立大學、公立大學其實公共化的程度很接近可是監管不太一樣所以也是今天講到很多的問題"},{"start":3208.777,"end":3209.537,"text":"王漢陽家長代表"},{"start":3216.767,"end":3244.6,"text":"委員、次長還有所有的專家學者大家好我們今天國教情榮聯盟就今天的一個主題我們針對專科以上學生學校的產學合作的實施辦法有一個說明第一個我們針對這個產學辦法我們有去調一些相關資料發現說兩學年其實有35萬人次的實習生正在這學校做實習包含暑假、寒假還有包含說單一學級跟全學習的學生"},{"start":3245.6,"end":3269.726,"text":"那究竟這些學生他是學生還是技術生呢他是學習去的還是工作去的所以這件事情其實在2023年5月的時候有一個越南籍的女學生其實不幸死亡在9月份的時候巴韓監察院這邊做一個糾舉在其實提出來這件事情的時候我覺得這件事情是非常嚴重的因為其實我們已經很早就有"},{"start":3270.606,"end":3293.682,"text":"立法院就已經有要求勞動部這邊去跟教育部這邊嚴領學生校外的實習專法那這個實習專法當中一直到現在2022年確實已經有草案送進行政院到現在確實目前現在都還沒有任何的動靜那現行的辦法到底有沒有什麼保障不足的以建教生合作的部分他是針對職災的部分都有保障充足"},{"start":3294.162,"end":3312.72,"text":"那我們現在的這個專科實習的一個合作實施辦法當中不管在職災的部分或者學生權益的保障或者甚至監督的機制還有說你也不可能叫說現在學校去實施勞動安檢甚至不可能去叫學校去了解說現在所有的廠商"},{"start":3314.081,"end":3337.197,"text":"這個廠商相信有一萬多的一個廠商這個廠商合作的公司在做這件事情所以包含的一些權益其實全部都需要去做一個徹底的檢討甚至我們明確的呼籲要有一個專法出來做保障包含說我們知道建教生合作的生活津貼工時休假等等尚未規定但是現在這個產學合作實施辦法針對他的職安環境當中"},{"start":3340.839,"end":3357.806,"text":"沒有一個具體的規範那大專學生在校外實習的身份是定位是模糊不清的既完全不是學生也沒納入勞基法的保障所以導致校外實習生在這個勞動權益當中是法律的灰色地帶增加相關事故的風險"},{"start":3359.126,"end":3359.507,"text":"教育部資料"},{"start":3374.419,"end":3376.4,"text":"全學年實習人數46,337人次、34786的時數的部分平均時數是1320個小時也就是說如果以一天8個小時來算的話"},{"start":3393.624,"end":3393.704,"text":"提出五點呼籲"},{"start":3411.946,"end":3439.161,"text":"第一個是在於明確實習生的一個勞動權益到底他是學習的還是工作的我們要明確去區分清楚第二個強化在職業的安全跟職災的補償這件事情非常的嚴重因為一般勞保幫中並沒有針對這些實習生當中可能有的補償或許他是最低薪資甚至發生職災當中我們知道越南的這是生故的如果他是非生故的那他有勞動力減損的問題到底"},{"start":3440.942,"end":3442.644,"text":"誰要就要去負擔這個僱主到底要怎麼去補償他第三個勞動的一個保護機制包含這些學生有沒有退休金我們讓學生去實習難道是讓他去知道說這社會的現實還是被剝削壓榨"},{"start":3456.34,"end":3484.026,"text":"他可能沒有退休金也可能沒有相關的保障嗎應該不是吧我們是希望讓他未來銜接在社會當中知道說很多明確的保障他現在就應該享有第四個明確的一個申訴機制跟監督機制那很多發生這些事情甚至職場霸凌的案件我們都知道其實缺乏申訴跟監督的機制那誰來去做監督呢不可能叫我們剛剛講不可能叫學校去做勞動安全去監督這件事情"},{"start":3485.126,"end":3502.622,"text":"去做訪視學校去訪視說學生在校外實習的這些公司到底安全性如何這些監督申書的機制應該去明確建立第5個境外實習生應該要有一定的保障因為我們發生很多知道說很多性交易很多各式各樣危險的事情"},{"start":3503.743,"end":3523.291,"text":"那陳儒這些事情的時候那這些境外實習生我們應該給他一個特別的保障為什麼因為他語言各方面的是比較不一樣的所以其實我們給他應該有給他相同的保障這幾件事情我們希望說盡快的去溝通好去立這個專法去保護相關的一個權益措施"},{"start":3524.211,"end":3538.365,"text":"最後兩分鐘的時間呢我們在針對第二個部分所謂的國家重點領域的產學合作及人才培育創新條例的這個部分那我們諮詢的對象是臺師大科技與工程學院的一個現任院長鄭慶明院長"},{"start":3540.447,"end":3554.922,"text":"我們發現到一件事情就是產創學院設立下會出現一個資源排擠學術獨立性跟人事穩定性的問題那有關其他的部分我可能沒辦法多說但是我們就幾個重點我們去講要到就是第一點第一點當中"},{"start":3555.703,"end":3578.023,"text":"其實產創學院就是我們在現在講的這個人才培育的一個創新條例就是各大現在學校成立了一個名稱叫產創學院產創學院吸引大量的資源包含說政府補助的資源包含說企業補助的資源能吸引到很多學生那甚至也給學生很多的獎勵的學金但是這方面的一個實際運作"},{"start":3579.805,"end":3594.18,"text":"確實造成了一個現有學科的排擠特別相關工程學系事實上不少學校在成立產創學院的時候跟現有的工程學系的師資合併到新的學院來那吸引到學生也可能優先"},{"start":3594.62,"end":3613.134,"text":"去選擇這些有獎學金的產創學院從而原來的一個聲援跟發展空間其實產生了一個擠壓這不僅造成說現在傳統學科的正常發展有可能引起校內的一個資源競爭第二個重點我們跳到後面一個第四個部分長期的一個穩定性發展"},{"start":3613.894,"end":3632.265,"text":"那到底這個8到10年的一個計畫他到底是什麼樣的性質是常態性的呢還是一般的呢那我們不太了解他到底未來的狀況是如何他到底是任務編組還是一般編組這個情形之下會影響到這些聘任的師資未來的去向"},{"start":3632.705,"end":3632.925,"text":"提供以上資訊 謝謝"},{"start":3648.322,"end":3649.984,"text":"謝謝國教行動聯盟理事長王漢陽他做了很多的調查發現目前實習生非常缺乏保障因為他的身份不明也並沒有受到勞基法的保障"},{"start":3663.84,"end":3664.561,"text":"立法委員．張雅琳委員發言"},{"start":3691.417,"end":3717.258,"text":"主席好,然後在場的各位先進大家好我是立法委員張阿玲那在今年4月我剛上任的時候呢其實我有說到臺北大學的學生會來陳情就是關於就是學校突然要裝修男醫女醫這兩個宿舍可是卻無意無預警地強制學生要搬離雖然說有召開相關的會議但是校長卻是關掉了學生代表學生會長的發言那我想這裡就是我們在討論這個大學自治的時候就是"},{"start":3717.958,"end":3741.059,"text":"我們在學生的意見的尊重這件事情還有需要做調整的空間那在上一屆立法院對於大學法其實也是有提出一些修正那其中一個重點就是學生參與校務的一個比例來加強學生權利的保障那我自己個人是贊同的但是我覺得今天還是可以來就教各位就是這裡面還是有一些我做一些研究還是有一些不同的爭點"},{"start":3742.912,"end":3768.491,"text":"第一個就是有關於委員會討論將學生的代表比例從十分之一變成五分之一這個變化是為了要落實校園的民主增進學生的自治權讓學生可以更積極的來參與學校的事務但是呢也有校方擔心說學生比例的提高可能會壓縮到其他成員的比例也有可能會造成校務治理的一個失衡所以從校方的觀點來看確保決策專業性和效率還是非常重要的"},{"start":3769.932,"end":3790.585,"text":"所以到底是十分之一還是五分之一呢我覺得這個大家可以一起來討論因為後面還有其他東西可能會影響到這個比例第二個部分就是說在學生權利的保障上面根據大學法第33條學生享有參與校務會議的權利並且可以組織學生自治性的社團來進行自主的運作那這裡面就涵蓋了言論自由、選舉權、被選舉權跟申訴權"},{"start":3793.888,"end":3805.617,"text":"最主要是希望可以去完善申訴的機制確保學生有遭遇不公平的對待的時候有一個正當的申訴管道來確保他的權益這是一項進步"},{"start":3807.54,"end":3808.281,"text":"大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討"},{"start":3830.016,"end":3836.339,"text":"大學必須積極引導與支持協助提供支援會被質疑是否削弱大學培養學生自治責任第四個部分學生代表的選舉上"},{"start":3853.146,"end":3880.532,"text":"選國大專院校學生會概況調查報告其實在2021年也有提到學生參與各項會議的意願其實是跟2019年來比是降低的那像他們當時裡面就有提到說參與各項會議是一定會出席的人只有39.5%大多會出席的只有43.4%所以這裡面就會變成說當學生參與的度不高的時候他今天選出來的代表性"},{"start":3881.775,"end":3882.195,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":3900.747,"end":3923.187,"text":"為什麼今天學生不參與學生不參與學校的公共事務的討論因為我想基於過去我自己在民間在講的就是兒童參與權讓兒童從小開始積極的參與公共事務那其實我們也會我就會很想要來了解說今天到底學生不參與是因為他覺得他參與的時候沒有"},{"start":3924.008,"end":3924.028,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3935.478,"end":3959.517,"text":"提案權可能實質上是沒有辦法產生任何的效果所以就一步一步的減緩了學生參與公共事務的機會跟意願所以我這個會認為就是說也許我們教育部也可以來做一些詳盡的了解就是說為什麼今天學生不參與了也許解決這個問題我們才有可能再來進一步的去討論說到底這個自治的比例"},{"start":3960.177,"end":3961.618,"text":"這是我今天的發言 謝謝"},{"start":3991.166,"end":3992.508,"text":"下一位是侯俊良 全國教師公會總聯合會理事長"},{"start":4022.185,"end":4035.991,"text":"主持人：范委員：各位委員：各位長官：我們葉次長：廖師長：還有楊師長：各位先進：各位同學：各位媒體朋友"},{"start":4037.741,"end":4048.47,"text":"我就把三個提綱,特別是第三個併入一二來節省一點時間在民國83年,民間團體發起了410的教改大遊行"},{"start":4055.162,"end":4055.222,"text":"李衍哲院長"},{"start":4074.741,"end":4091.073,"text":"那我當時自己有個經驗我當時就當校長了當大學校長我自己本人在這個第一會也跟各位報告我當過三所大學勢力大學校長一所美國的中文學校還有台中一所實驗教育學校校長"},{"start":4091.753,"end":4091.773,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4112.966,"end":4127.091,"text":"第二場是到晚上12點10分吃了兩頓宵夜這個校園民主我們學生老師我們不署名因為一署名到最後會散會少了一半嘛我都一直還維持47名討論學校的四大建築還有學校未來的願"},{"start":4134.534,"end":4137.416,"text":"學生老師高度參與,實際上使我們學校,我以前服務的學校,實際上不是人治,非常法治。"},{"start":4153.041,"end":4176.176,"text":"那另外呢 這裡面所提到的有很多亂象 所以我想就留有等一下 很多工會的 特別是專家學者你們來多琢磨那我就點到為止啦那這一個剛才講的這個校園民主教授制校 事實上是有大學法的依據一直延續到今天 唯一大學自主"},{"start":4178.477,"end":4192.422,"text":"學術自由並未正確落實導致有換委員辦公室公布高校治理問卷的四大亂象我非常詳細讀了學生的意見我也想利用這個機會做一點時間我也跟學生討論一下人家問我說陳校長你怎麼可能一口氣沒有見到做21年校長前後大概做了30幾年"},{"start":4204.545,"end":4232.356,"text":"我告訴各位因為我跟老師跟同學做朋友所以很多學生事實上你回去問問經理學生會過程是非常好的精彩進駐校長室老師有問題都私底下都解決了所以在校會或其他會議都是站在學校很理性的這種自主管理的方式來進行辦理所以才有可能做這麼久那另外就是"},{"start":4235.699,"end":4249.251,"text":"政府隨著1976年解嚴、之前解嚴開放的階段之後自由再度擴充,1994年以後到今天是強調學校自主管理及績效責任的階段"},{"start":4250.632,"end":4275.135,"text":"因為民主治理並未真正落實﹐在制度與實務面的運作﹐雖然有走回頭路﹐但值得討論﹐包括修改大學法部分的條文﹐所以我在這裡﹐也贊成換召集委員﹐16委員所提案的﹐大學法第7條的修正條文﹐我仔細看過了﹐非常簡單明瞭﹐而且確合需要"},{"start":4275.981,"end":4278.964,"text":"大學自主民主治理原則下,學生的權利當然非常重要"},{"start":4295.302,"end":4318.105,"text":"但有一些會議﹖並未涉及學生的權益﹖像中長城校發展計畫﹖學生了解不見得完全很充足﹖我認為得免涉學生代表﹖所以有一些學校沒有﹖我以前的服務學校沒有﹖但是我是支持﹖比如說支持校務會的會議代表﹖人數要佔全體會議人數十分之一﹖這是大學法第15條﹖"},{"start":4319.81,"end":4320.03,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4346.914,"end":4363.058,"text":"學生會保障學習與參與的角度和觀念學生在學校任何的活動參與都是學習的一部分這是我的辦校的一個原則所以我支持行政會議的校長、領學員也會要學生代表學校也沒有問題"},{"start":4369.78,"end":4387.686,"text":"公共監督的部分 校務諮詢公開 本來就公開啊所以這個我真的拿不到學校的財務諮詢 應該是個個案那校長臨選任免機制 在事業是董事會的權責還有1分鐘 有些學校14年度校長績效考評 我就被考評過了"},{"start":4389.779,"end":4414.797,"text":"這兩個辦法等一下大家可以多談第一個就是產學合作實施辦法那103十年度提出3加4那107開始有這個新南向因為有仲介的涉入宣傳不實我自己到越南去了接我的就是仲介他就是我們兩個的對話單位身份分不清"},{"start":4416.759,"end":4438.575,"text":"包裝成留學代表中心建立各校招生單位要親自到南向國家去招生、面試你的學生學校依法辦好實習教學品質還有另外一個創新條例這個是非常好的一個卓越邁向頂大的一個條例但是有一些缺點比如說建考委員換訓例"},{"start":4443.716,"end":4445.36,"text":"提出書面資料 大家參考指教 謝謝"},{"start":4451.792,"end":4455.235,"text":"謝謝陳監察人,也是我們靜怡大學的前校長我們家人是靜怡的校友,非常懷念靜怡他剛有講到就是我聽到的就是校務會議他覺得學生代表的比例可以以25%為目標然後漸進達成然後大學招生要親自到南向國家等"},{"start":4475.112,"end":4481.662,"text":"謝謝 那我們現在就請侯俊良全國教師公會總聯合會理事長發言下一位是翁曉琳立委請準備"},{"start":4485.181,"end":4507.829,"text":"好 謝謝主席感謝范委員召開這樣一場公聽會 非常必要我想大學的一個亂象 這個整個總檢討如果我們不做些什麼 它是不會改變我覺得早上范委員這邊也召開一場記者會我先用一個以人為本這樣一個概念來做開頭"},{"start":4509.309,"end":4532.68,"text":"我認為說整個包括教育部要重視到人才人才的一個網絡那高教的部分人才非常重要我們業次也來自高教嘛所以會了解如果沒有優秀的這樣的一個勞動條件無法吸引專任的老師甚至現在有很多是兼任的那兼任他在大學裡面也扮演很重要的一個角色"},{"start":4533.22,"end":4533.24,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4551.441,"end":4563.753,"text":"人的部分你要尊重他你要讓他發揮才能所以有好幾個先進提到的校務會議的一個組成既然校務會議是一個學校很重要特別是公共治理的一個過程"},{"start":4565.734,"end":4580.32,"text":"參與的人是不是應該要以絕大多數實際上在參與的老師那我們看到整個校會會議的一個代表老師純粹老師的部分是逐漸的降低那有很多行政的一個思維充斥在這樣一個校會會議裡面"},{"start":4581.761,"end":4603.657,"text":"他所做出來的一個決議當然就會有所偏頗啦比較沒有一個公共性所以整個校徽的代表比例包括公司校的部分是一個很嚴重的一個問題我們應該思考怎麼樣的比例才可以讓這樣子整個大學的一個治理是朝向比較公共化的包括學生如果老師都不能參與的我想學生的一個參與我覺得是又是另外一個問題啦所以"},{"start":4604.818,"end":4631.058,"text":"在整個這個部分我想高教治理的部分以人為本的概念大概是這幾個部分先做一個開頭那整個跟高教治理重要的法規除了大學法、私校法還有這個產創條例以及這個私校退場條例我想這些都該逐年的去做一些修正滾動式的一個修正那特別是在整個大學法這麼多這麼多年沒有修正的一個過程當中應該產生很多的問題"},{"start":4632.919,"end":4660.432,"text":"他應該是要用大學有效知識落實公共監理還有面對少子化等這幾個方向來做處理老實講我們大概有提出幾個方向的一個大的方向第一個校務運作校務會議的運作應該要更加透明那當然關鍵的重點就是他的比例部分第二個部分老師的勞動條件你要去優化你沒有去優化不會吸引好的一個人才再來私校公共的一個監理的部分我們都知道少子化退場"},{"start":4661.552,"end":4687.461,"text":"退場的部分以私校經常發生的就是在財務方面那這個地方的一個公共監理我們是不是應該要加強包括一直在談的這個董事會跟校務會議之間的一個關係如果我們只是讓董事會的決議就能涵蓋所有的一個校務會議的一個決議那我想在私校的一個監理的部分永遠都是一個謎會產生很大的一個問題還有產學合作應該要有一些務實管理的"},{"start":4691.042,"end":4694.805,"text":"提出的幾個方向時間的關係我會針對幾個比較重要我們認為說應該要集體去做處理的部分做一個論述"},{"start":4707.515,"end":4732.073,"text":"第一個就是有關校會的運作我們具體提出教師會的一個教師代表人數不得少於二分之一而且應該要扣除兼任行政的老師因為兼任行政他畢竟有一個另外一個身份就是行政他的一個思維在整個爵士的過程當中難免會往行政這個部分去做一些偏頗當然行政不見得不好我覺得行政在整個溝通的過程當中應該要有一些對話我們這個對話的一個過程當中應該要讓"},{"start":4736.897,"end":4737.177,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4754.52,"end":4769.015,"text":"關於老師的一個勞動條件對於升等的部分特別是教師評鑑我想我們聽到蠻多高教的老師對於教師評鑑的部分我到底要不要呼應學生的喜好各方面的等等的我覺得這些都是一個問題"},{"start":4770.176,"end":4791.303,"text":"如果我們沒有很明確的去面對這些問題你無法提出一個比較好的一個解決方式或許並沒有辦法有一種方式可以完全解決所有的問題但是至少要各方的對話產出一個我們比較可行的一個方向那我覺得這個部分應該要去做處理還好中小學並沒有做教師評鑑如果中小學做教師評鑑那問題又會更大"},{"start":4793.184,"end":4793.304,"text":"教育部長"},{"start":4812.177,"end":4812.197,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4840.189,"end":4845.832,"text":"施出有名,沒有那麼困難我覺得這個部分應該要去做一些處理另外有關公開財務的查核等等再來產學合作,我想在這個部分"},{"start":4852.233,"end":4868.806,"text":"特別提到現在的一個技術生就是技術生他有勞基法的一個保障那技高建校生有建校專法但是專上以上的學生的實習只有這個產學合作的一個辦法可以依循而且他的法律位階比較低"},{"start":4869.446,"end":4869.466,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":4899.546,"end":4901.468,"text":"剩餘校場歸屬公共化"},{"start":4921.754,"end":4921.994,"text":"主席"},{"start":4943.021,"end":4947.144,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位校長、各位高教的先進"},{"start":4970.516,"end":4979.239,"text":"我是國立高雄科技大學機械系的教授徐光澄我也在學校曾經擔任過教師會的理事長4年之前在這個學校併校之前也擔任過高應大的教師會理事長所以我對教師會它的使命以及如何來促進我們整個大學的一個發展正向的發展其實也是有一個相當大的期許"},{"start":5000.245,"end":5026.901,"text":"但今天我大概是以教授個人的身份也謝謝委員給予這樣的一個機會來陳述那我準備的資料相當的多相當的多那我可能就是以這個資料的引導方式也謝謝我們教育部的次長、師長都能夠歷臨到現場在這個會議資料的第10頁我大概有講到就是國立大學它是"},{"start":5027.782,"end":5047.571,"text":"沒有錯,他是依據憲法來保障他的這個他有自治權沒有錯,但是他還是要依法行政依的這個法當然就是大學法那大學法其實在第15條是有很明確的規定這個教師的出席校務會議的比例有多少"},{"start":5048.211,"end":5052.152,"text":"學術與行政主管這兩個群體是不同的群體但目前某科大很技巧性的就去規避了那規避的結果會造成一件事情可以麻煩大家翻到書院資料的第二頁跟第三頁我們這邊有製作了一個統計圖跟圓餅圖"},{"start":5076.721,"end":5076.741,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5098.288,"end":5110.412,"text":"高科大﹚這個某科大的亂象將會推到全國各大學為什麼這麼說你可以很清楚的看到學術與行政主管看這個圓餅圖的話這個某科大他有25個一級行政單位的主管25個 五個副校長那這些都是當然主管都是當然的校務會議代表"},{"start":5122.634,"end":5128.705,"text":"還有那個院長有12位院長這些都是當然代表另外呢學就是系所的這個主管"},{"start":5134.991,"end":5155.69,"text":"他不是當然代表,但是經由教育部的含釋,他可以經由選舉的方式可以成為教師代表那所造成的結果,就是在校務會議裡面的行政主管已經超過半數那這個我也要積極來呼應前面有很多先進所講的"},{"start":5157.768,"end":5172.336,"text":"如果我們的行政會議的提案都已經是在行政主管通過然後送到校務會議來結果在校務會議裡面的代表行政主管超過半數那請問這樣的校務會議"},{"start":5174.477,"end":5195.573,"text":"有什麼樣的意義呢?它基本上就是橡皮圖章所以這一件事情一定要確保所謂的校務會議裡面的教師代表跟學術與行政主管代表這是兩個不同的群體這件事情其實是相當的重要那麼這個某科大它其實是在106年"},{"start":5201.362,"end":5222.336,"text":"是106學年度第二學期,就是107年的2月1號由這個三所國立科大合併那當初在訂定校務會議的,由校務會議來訂定相關校內的組織章程特別就是這個學校的組織規程的時候,其實找的都是主管"},{"start":5223.712,"end":5223.732,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5254.112,"end":5254.132,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5268.246,"end":5287.702,"text":"校長要續任是採用一個很低的標準就是三分之二出席過半同意那這個代表一件事情這校長其實自己就宣布自己可以繼續續任那倘若校長沒有辦法繼續續任譬如說他兩任任期屆滿了那這邊"},{"start":5292.23,"end":5318.651,"text":"他可能也是透過校務會議因為校長臨選委員是由校務會議去選舉出來的所以校務會議的成員如果都偏主管那麼這主管應該都是會理論上是聽命於校長的意志所以選出來的這些校長臨選委員可能還是會受到前任校長的一個影響所以"},{"start":5319.5,"end":5344.358,"text":"在這個投影片裡面我有提到一件事情我們要避免國立大學校長這個世襲制度的形成這件事情我這個應該是大家第一次聽到了第一次聽到但這件事情即將在某科大要發生那因為我們國內現在是少子化的情況越來越嚴重所以公私立大學會有合併的這個問題那這個"},{"start":5351.448,"end":5353.029,"text":"合併社新典章制度,找當下所有主管討論,某科大的情況將會陸陸續續發生在其他大學。"},{"start":5376.026,"end":5393.621,"text":"第10頁,事實上這個某科大所定的組織規程,他並沒有明定教師代表這些比例什麼都沒有定名,然後案理也必須要報教育部,教育部並未按教育部的內部法規來做審理所以這個,以上簡單報告,謝謝"},{"start":5398.907,"end":5425.44,"text":"謝謝許光誠教授他一直用某科大給大家非常多具體的例子我想就說謝謝他準備非常豐富的資料我就不再繼續主要他是講說校長一旦選上之後會掌控行政人員包含教育部的韓式最後變成是一個校長世襲的制度他的資料很豐富我們就請大家自己看"},{"start":5425.68,"end":5426.902,"text":"教師公會總聯合會副秘書長 楊義飛發言各位先進大家好今天很榮幸有這個機會來參與這個大學"},{"start":5443.581,"end":5469.775,"text":"有吧 有先有機會來參與這個關於大學治理的一個相關議題的討論這樣子那我想前面就是大家先前都說得非常的清楚但其實在大學作為臺灣高等教育的一個很重要的培育場所那他們長期其實大學對於中小學的影響也是非常大的那我覺得在談所謂的自治之前其實可以先討論一個問題就是所謂的法治層面剛剛很多先進士都有討論到就是關於"},{"start":5470.876,"end":5489.565,"text":"大學的校務會議裡面教師代表的比例其實現行的大學法裡面就有規定其實教師代表要超過一半問題就在於如果今天大學沒有照這個東西處理教育部有沒有相關的法則也就是說其實在現行的法規體制底下有一些制度它其實是非常的好"},{"start":5490.285,"end":5490.946,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5512.429,"end":5512.449,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5532.978,"end":5533.698,"text":"大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討"},{"start":5554.747,"end":5584.047,"text":"大學的專任老師的法定員額是不是要有一個比例就是我們其實站在一個健全勞動的場域上來講我們還是應該去減少所謂非典型雇用那這幾年因為大學整病甚至還出現一種叫做專案教師專案教師他可能就是整病之後留下來的這些就是勞動人員他可能只有就是以定期契約的方式進行他其實更沒有保障那去查過各種資料就可以發現目前台灣高教"},{"start":5584.987,"end":5585.007,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5594.884,"end":5614.939,"text":"除了去提高所謂兼任教師的勞動條件之外更迫切的應該是去訂定所謂的專任教師的這個比例我們認為應該是比較根本溯源的辦法這樣子再來提到剛剛談到了那個校務會當中的教師的代表怎麼樣去杜絕學校他用所謂的"},{"start":5616.329,"end":5617.029,"text":"現在要補充的就是"},{"start":5646.508,"end":5662.652,"text":"提到很多大學 特別是大學的領導者對於所謂不適應校長的退場機制在這個部分台灣目前是沒有完善的那這幾年大家對於中小學的校長的操信或德性或者是整個退場機制其實社會也該關注那我們也其實認為應該要趁這個就是社會氛圍的時候一併來檢討不論對於公立或私立"},{"start":5668.274,"end":5669.995,"text":"大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討"},{"start":5690.386,"end":5717.728,"text":"我們如果認真去看在這個專科以上學校產業實施辦法這個各位如果有去看這個辦法呢它總共只有11條然後去頭去尾其實全部只有9條那如果我們對於產學合作是一個相當重視的一個國家這9條其實是不足以去cover全部的產學合作的各種態樣那甚至再去深究裡面現在出現的問題是這個實施辦法裡面它其實只有規範校級"},{"start":5720.25,"end":5740.527,"text":"產學實施場域有時候我就跟學校端要合作的時候我要處理這些問題這是規範的包括你的勞動權益啦你那個就是勞動場域裡面要訂定實習目標等等可是對於系級沒有規範比如說我是參與系系級我不太需要去遵守這個辦法甚至我們講更白一點它終究就只是一個辦法"},{"start":5741.786,"end":5741.806,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5767.325,"end":5781.202,"text":"這些專法我們講的是要達到位階不是辦法不是指導原則他其實應該需要去做一個修訂才能夠去完整的去提倡我們台灣高等的教育這樣子所以我想大概就以上幾點來跟各位前輩做分享以上謝謝"},{"start":5784.482,"end":5810.968,"text":"謝謝全國教師公會總聯合會的副秘書長楊亦菲的發言還有提到行政高過非行政代表的問題還有那個不適任校長目前完全沒有退場機制還有產學合作沒有規範到系級然後也沒有到專法的位置等問題再來我們請國立中山大學校長李智鵬李校長發言然後我們國立科技大學校院協會的理事長嚴嘉鈺請準備"},{"start":5813.96,"end":5833.05,"text":"主席、范委員、教育部葉次長以及各位官員還有今天所有在場關心高教的學者、專家、先進我們在這裡可能提出兩點跟大家一起討論這兩點剛剛的委員事實上也大致有講過"},{"start":5835.812,"end":5843.537,"text":"主要是兼行政職教師能否擔任校務會議代表的選任委員目前根據大學法第15條的立法精神將教師代表"},{"start":5853.124,"end":5867.538,"text":"與學術及行政主管這兩類是分開的而且教師代表是經由選舉而產生所以就會有目前已經兼任學術跟行政主管的代表"},{"start":5867.978,"end":5868.138,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5883.392,"end":5883.552,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":5900.743,"end":5901.203,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5924.868,"end":5949.081,"text":"根據相關法規,教師可以組織公會,依法提起團體協商及進行勞資爭議,但是不得行使罷工。這個相關的規範在公會法、團體協約法及勞資爭議相關處理都有相關的訂定,但是對於編制外約聘教師,目前是不直接適用教師法。"},{"start":5950.161,"end":5972.894,"text":"而且排除適用勞動基準法目前約聘教師都是依據教育部訂定的專科以上學校禁用邊之外專任教學人員實施原則來辦理聆聘的工作但是欠缺相關的法員可以保障他們的勞動權利"},{"start":5975.055,"end":5998.953,"text":"那目前大多數的學校對於這些編制外的這些約聘教師也都不得擔任學校各項會議以及各個委員會的委員那也不具備各項職務的選舉的這個權利我想這個對約聘教師的權利跟保障是有相當程度的限縮"},{"start":6000.354,"end":6017.091,"text":"包括我們學校目前這些教師他們也不具選舉權他們也不具投票權所以我們在這裡是提出來說這些約聘外的專案教師的勞動權益我們建議要能夠訂定專法保障他們的勞動相關的權益"},{"start":6019.633,"end":6021.354,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員：完整會議"},{"start":6042.771,"end":6043.071,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6060.569,"end":6084.899,"text":"學生參與校園各種活動的情況跟大家做一個說明根據現行的法規大學法學生代表人數不少於總人數的10%目前整個校務會議總共有93位代表其中包含了10位學生代表所以學生代表有10.8%"},{"start":6086.8,"end":6092.143,"text":"10.8%這10位代表雖然說大家可能覺得10%還不夠多事實上像我剛參與過校長的選舉我們校長選舉消費代表是很重要的學生的10票事實上"},{"start":6106.572,"end":6133.908,"text":"是相當有影響力的所以我們所有的候選人對那十位學生我想都不敢忽視當然我們不會直接去影響不過這一部分我想在各位在各個校長的候選人他們在政見裡面各方面他們都會極力去爭取這個雖然只有10%可是是大家都極力爭取的一個部分"},{"start":6135.274,"end":6152.747,"text":"我們也統計過10位學生的校務會議代表他們參與校務會議的情況我們總共統計了3年在111年他們的出席率大概在80-90%那112年降到比較低大概50-60%可是113年又上升到70%所以學生的參與率其實是不低的"},{"start":6164.626,"end":6189.041,"text":"包括我們事實上在111年第4次的校務會議我們人事室有提出本校這個組織章程的修正就希望修正這個學生參與各個會議的人數那最後我們在112年的第三次校務會議有通過我們目前的除了校務會議之外我們的教務會議代表"},{"start":6189.981,"end":6218.235,"text":"學生的部分由3人變為6人學生申訴評議委員會的代表由4人改成5人所以我們校內的學生的參與的程度是大幅的提高更重要的是我們行政會議行政會議往年都是學術跟行政的一級主管參加那我們目前從112年的下班年起我們也擴大學生參與目前我們兩個學生他本來是列席"},{"start":6218.715,"end":6218.915,"text":"主席"},{"start":6247.489,"end":6249.551,"text":"謝謝中山大學的校長李志朋"},{"start":6276.929,"end":6278.051,"text":"國立科技大學院校協會理事長嚴嘉鈺發言教文委員 郭育晴"},{"start":6295.037,"end":6315.164,"text":"謝謝主席 葉市長 我們教育部廖市長 楊市長首先謝謝主席 各位有這個機會來跟大家報告那我也要特別感謝主席的大學法第7條的修正因為我個人也是國立台灣科技大學的校長我們正在經歷公立大學跟市立大學合併的這個困難"},{"start":6316.912,"end":6317.092,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6346.852,"end":6347.312,"text":"主席"},{"start":6372.957,"end":6396.457,"text":"發布一直到學校要把這些法規進到各級的程序然後再進到委員會然後再進到校會這個中間一定會經過很多時間那我的感覺是我們現在教育部提供了非常多的包括大學校長的這個任免都有很多的法規那我們很多都剛剛才完成他的"},{"start":6397.998,"end":6420.137,"text":"經過學校程序成為正式的校規還沒有能夠執行那我相信很多學校可能到現在還沒有能夠完成這些立法那如果再這樣我們又去急著去立新的法的話我真的覺得會看不出來所以我還是希望呼籲一下剛才那個監察人他的建議就是一步一步我們給點時間然後滾動式的來檢討"},{"start":6423.559,"end":6449.765,"text":"另外一個是這個產學合作我也是希望馬上分一下產學合作跟建教生在我的立場看起來是不太一樣的我們學校其實是很鼓勵產學合作但這個是老師跟業界中心的合作他必須了解業界現在的發展必須去增進自己的知識而不能只是從博士班學下來的東西到今天一直一本講義用到現在那如果說把"},{"start":6451.125,"end":6468.676,"text":"財學合作跟我們剛才說的這個實習生搞在一起的話那真的會讓社會把這個產學合作的觀念也有點被誤解那我們其實很支持這個建教生這一部分能夠做一些規範那當然這個"},{"start":6471.918,"end":6498.952,"text":"實際上如果能夠部份大學能夠鬆綁不一定要一定要科大一定要每個科大都一定要百分之百的產學合作的話建教合作的話我倒覺得是蠻希望能夠也在這邊呼籲一下能夠修改那再下來就是同學參與行政的事對比學校這個民主的這個事情其實剛才中山大學的理事長也報告我們的學生參與"},{"start":6500.509,"end":6529.23,"text":"當然我代表的是國立科大,可能學生是比較沒有那麼關心政治所以我覺得我們真的要做的是先去鼓勵學生關心政治的態度所以一步一步,也是剛才金曉涵說的,就是我們一步一步的來把學生參政的意識跟精神鼓勵起來"},{"start":6530.391,"end":6556.192,"text":"臺科大現在以我們自己學校來講我們每一個層級甚至連系務會議大部分系務會議都有學生在裡面但是學生願意來參加系務會議的那種出席率就不高那我比較希望是我們先讓學生有這個意識他們更能夠來參加更了解學校的行政更了解這些困難然後我們再來提高他的這個比例"},{"start":6556.872,"end":6585.022,"text":"那再下來就是產商學院我希望解釋一下我覺得產商學院其實是政府一個非常善意也是委員們一個非常善意非常能夠幫學校發展的一個很重要的一個法那沒有錯他感覺好像有些學校他去排擠到其他的學院其他的老師可是事實上是每個學校的做法我覺得這部分委員可以再參考一下"},{"start":6586.002,"end":6600.136,"text":"以臺科大來說我們是要容許全校的老師都參與財產創學院那這個辦法也讓教育部許多委員有審查我們的許多委員都有做一些審查讓這個老師的參與是"},{"start":6602.54,"end":6628.079,"text":"全面性的那我沒有看到我們需要其他的院跟所對產商學院有任何的排擠他們事實上是歡迎的那你說同學的生源的排擠我也不覺得那產商學院本身它的營運表面上看起來它是有很多的資源可是事實上因為我們的法本身的規定它是有一半的經費它需要自己從產業界來籌"},{"start":6629.557,"end":6631.419,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6646.835,"end":6646.995,"text":"主席"},{"start":6662.149,"end":6663.73,"text":"國立科技大學校院協會嚴家裕理事長"},{"start":6692.029,"end":6694.67,"text":"高等教育是國家發展非常重要的基礎但台灣大學在招生的名額上發現缺額近年來不斷攀升"},{"start":6716.46,"end":6717.161,"text":"文學院及社會科學院的缺額超過50%"},{"start":6747.14,"end":6770.907,"text":"我想這個現象大概也反映出當然是跟我們少子化有些關係那另外就是大家對於所謂的產業的一個變遷跟市場上的一個需求其實已經出現了大家好像比較偏重理科反而這些文科其實是被弱化的那這也是我會比較擔心的一個部分那另外其實在這個高等教育研究期看到2020年他也特別指出"},{"start":6771.627,"end":6777.752,"text":"臺灣的高教的經費以競爭型的經費佔44%這已經是高出像是韓國的40%所以目前我們是主要的一些所謂的對高校的一個補助都是以競爭型為主但是我們的競爭型這個機制其實也會在資源的分配上我們也很難去避免變成強者很強"},{"start":6799.85,"end":6824.084,"text":"因為比較好的一些頂尖大學他們因為研究資源比較容易吸引產業的這樣子的一個轉移或者是捐助那相對的來講其實就會擴大更大的這個學校之間的一些差距那一些中小型的一個學校他大概就只能仰賴一些比方說他技術的轉移或者他出租他的校舍作為增加收入的一個來源那我覺得這個就會變成強者很強"},{"start":6826.926,"end":6826.986,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6844.77,"end":6845.41,"text":"出租實習中心的計劃引發更大的爭議"},{"start":6871.301,"end":6899.941,"text":"學生甚至認為他們自己本身受教的權益已經受損甚至還站出來說他們要用集體休學來做這樣子的一個抗議但是因為租金我們可想而知它其實是一個收入比較穩定的當然由於一些大學他們是樂於出租自己本身的一個產業但也凸顯到了我們的高等教育的經費短缺是可能在一些比較中小型的學校來講它是一個比較長期的一個困境"},{"start":6900.561,"end":6900.581,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":6923.286,"end":6925.588,"text":"大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討"},{"start":6943.607,"end":6943.827,"text":"文化委員會主席"},{"start":6961.296,"end":6961.436,"text":"主席"},{"start":6982.643,"end":7009.388,"text":"謝謝郭育晴委員今天特別來發言還有提到就是文學院社科院成為我們現在少子化的重災區還有高教經費的競爭型可能會擴大差距強者越強弱者越弱還有就是私校在財務上將土地出租影響學生的權益還有私校教師薪水偏低也影響就是私校學生特別是就是可能是弱勢財務背景弱勢的學生"},{"start":7011.269,"end":7016.635,"text":"謝謝郭育琴委員的發言我們先休息五分鐘待會請佛光大學校長趙校長發言"},{"start":7421.343,"end":7424.464,"text":"范委員 廖師長 楊師長 跟在座的所有先進大家午安"},{"start":7451.759,"end":7478.876,"text":"我是趙涵傑我來立法院很多次了第一次被請上台來講話不是叫上台來講話所以心情特別不一樣我想其實今天討論的現象或是各種法規唯一的目的就是在規範人我想我們在立法院所有的想要制定的法規就是規範人"},{"start":7480.714,"end":7503.319,"text":"所以這些亂象跟產學合作的現象我非常同意剛剛葉次長所說的其實那只是少部分的少部分那絕大部分的高教工作者其實是兢兢業業的那我個人也曾經兢兢業業十幾年然後算是平安下莊可是現在又上莊了而且發現還是一樣兢兢業業"},{"start":7508.154,"end":7523.33,"text":"我代表的學校佛光最近有出一點是我承認我們心悅誠服的接受教育部的一些處置所以我也支持有查到有任何這方面的可能有些亂象不符合社會期待的話"},{"start":7525.19,"end":7547.961,"text":"應該就是怎麼處理該怎麼處理就處理不管是公校不管是私校舉例來講兩天前教育部突然到佛光大學來做帳目的集合我們清月臣服接受最後只有兩個很細微的缺點然後其他都符合了教育部的期待所以這一點"},{"start":7550.362,"end":7578.2,"text":"站在大學是這個社會的良心的這一部分上我相信在大學的所有行政人員都是一本初衷為了教育理念希望把學校辦好尤其是私立學校在這邊跟范委員報告私校現在未生存所以不太可能學生的權益會忽略的現在學生的權益每一件事每一句話我們都當成非常慎重的事情在考量"},{"start":7578.86,"end":7598.223,"text":"所以這一點可能對私校應該是比較不會有這麼大的影響性那回到這次的主題這些亂象就是我剛剛一開始講的是以人要規範人所以其實我個人一直認為我經歷了兩個學校公立學校其實就是校長要選出一個好的人"},{"start":7599.464,"end":7623.239,"text":"我們的領選制度是不是真的能把校長選出一個好的人是不是藉由這一次的大學法裡頭可以稍微再做一些思考這個可能可以給大院跟部裡去參考一下現在其實可以很簡單的去統計一下我們現在全國各公立大學他們的校長有幾位是校外來的"},{"start":7624.539,"end":7650.229,"text":"我相信十之八九都是校內產生並不代表校內產生是不好但是這些十之八九校內產生的校長他們的校外的來的參選人是在哪一關被過濾掉的很多很多絕大部分都是第一關在校園的普選也好或校務會代表的選舉也好就被過濾掉所以這些是不是造成這個這個整個"},{"start":7651.647,"end":7653.469,"text":"大學的領選 校長領選應該是要有一個比較周全的思量 然後來看怎麼產生的"},{"start":7672.367,"end":7700.521,"text":"那可能大家對於大學校長會有另外期待就是他這四年我們沒辦法監督到他怎麼辦但是監督權要太大的話說真的四年晃眼即過可能一事無成這對學校的老師學生的期待可能也有落差那我們為什麼不在續任的時候來把他的門檻稍微調高一點或者在續任的時候這個他的整個程序可以稍微再嚴謹一點"},{"start":7701.641,"end":7724.578,"text":"舉例來講,我就知道很多大學校長、公立學校校長他的續任的時候他們的校長,畢竟這點我承認,他有很大的行政財量權所以在教育部的評鑑過了以後他一收到評鑑公文以後,一個禮拜就開校務會議就在校務會議裡頭突然把這個案子提進去了然後就領選投票了"},{"start":7727.06,"end":7740.698,"text":"而不是開大門走大路說沒關係領選教育部的評鑑通過了我就照原來規定兩個月以後我開個專門的校務會議來投我的領選是不是要續任"},{"start":7742.601,"end":7761.35,"text":"所以這樣子的模式下去的話你要是能門檻稍微提高一點然後公告我們的校長續任一定是要專門為他開一次臨時校務會議來投票的話就是比較不會有那種臨時這樣突然提出案來的話我相信經過這種門檻能通過的校長"},{"start":7764.738,"end":7793.735,"text":"他基本上一定有他的這個說服力跟有在學校裡頭一定會有跟學生也好跟老師好一定有他基本的這個功能存在我想這個就是人的問題要是經過這樣子的制度能夠把人找出來那這個人其實在這裡待四年或待八年那他經營的學校一定會善加去跟學生也好跟老師也好去做溝通整個學校運作也會上軌道"},{"start":7794.936,"end":7805.784,"text":"所以在這邊我個人認為這個很多很多的這個今年討論方式或許我們可以從另外一個角度去看就是我們從遴選辦法裡頭能更開大門讓更多的人進來第一關是參考"},{"start":7811.949,"end":7812.089,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7832.833,"end":7849.959,"text":"一翻就兩瞪眼就知道他在學校裡因為民調有時候基本上電話訪查的時候基本上這樣子的出來的結果也是很好的一個參考數據那這樣民調出來再加上門檻拉高你的續任校長基本上就有一定的公信力跟一定的治理成果"},{"start":7850.399,"end":7850.419,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7865.767,"end":7892.342,"text":"謝謝佛光大學趙校長的發言還有他覺得關鍵就是校長如果選出一個好的人包含目前遴選制度過於象牙塔化應該能夠有更周全的視角還有續任程序可以更嚴謹門檻可以更拉高一些那謝謝他那再來我們請台灣教育人員產業工會理事長楊逸峰發言那下一位是我們教文的陳培委員請準備"},{"start":7894.469,"end":7909.919,"text":"委員 各位先生 現在應該是 還是早安因為前面問題已經說了很多 那我就盡量略過 按照提綱就我個人的潛見做一些分享第一個 高教治理的制度跟現況有什麼問題問題很單純 這兩個 一個是少子化 一個是財務問題當然財務問題也源於少子化 那麼財務問題裡面有兩件事第一個是 有很多學校的成本已經不足以經營了"},{"start":7921.647,"end":7921.928,"text":"施政委員"},{"start":7937.509,"end":7964.82,"text":"其實嚴格說起來亂象指的是非我們正常期待發展的現象所以以下我就譬如說我們提綱上面寫的校務會議有沒有亂象我目前的我還有一個特別的資格就是我應該是全國在各校擔任教師生評委最多學校我大概擔任20幾個大學的生評委那我發現的譬如說以校務會議為例基本上來講現在的校務會議它的組成角色"},{"start":7965.76,"end":7966.28,"text":"法治思維不足"},{"start":7982.89,"end":8002.609,"text":"制度的制也就是說剛剛有向特別提到說其實我們大學法制化原則上很充分就我的觀察是因為我自己學法的嘛我必須要幫各大學順他們的各種規定我發現他們各規定之間彼此都一大堆的衝突所以各校院之間彼此也都不是校院系院之間也不太聯繫所以常常會有類似這樣的問題"},{"start":8003.91,"end":8029.024,"text":"所以這個東西其實我覺得是目前校務會議比較大的發展上的困難學生權益的部分其實很多人都特別提到了我也認為學生權益現在沒有人忽略但那個指的是就學或在學的權益因為少子化只要能讓他就學或在學學校用盡一切權力但是學生的參決權受到大幅的限縮這也就是委員剛剛提到的就是說能不能在某些地方讓他參決那麼在教師的部分呢"},{"start":8030.144,"end":8049.142,"text":"基本上來講也是因為少子化也至於產生為了招生扭曲了教師原本的工作要求跟工作條件這是一個比較大的問題那再來教師的參決權屬於表面上十分有保障比如說他都有一定的比例但實質上其實幾乎沒有什麼參決權等一下會分享內容"},{"start":8050.423,"end":8053.726,"text":"教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":8071.161,"end":8100.153,"text":"公共監督的機制幾乎沒有那我就不用再贅述了齁然後在有關於現在產學辦法跟產創條例、重點產創條例這個部分的競合主要的問題是在於第一個其實會有排擠的問題剛剛雖然特別提到說我們經費預算是獨立的齁但是問題是這是一個大水庫理論我們對學校的所有捐贖原則上是一定的他沒有辦法他其實沒有辦法他這邊吸走了那個太多的經費其他地方就沒有連產學彼此之間都會排擠"},{"start":8101.013,"end":8101.434,"text":"財務惡化已有不能清償債務之事實"},{"start":8121.195,"end":8145.711,"text":"雖然他的預算是獨立的,但是這不等於在法律上可以排除掉本部必須給付債務,必須替他給付債務的這種可能性所以他現在的監督是嚴重不足的,裡面只要求一個委員必須具有集合專業可是大部分二分之一以上必須要集合監督的事項,二分之一以上是需要有集合專業的政府派的代表雖然是三分之一,但是三分之一裡面一樣沒有問責機制"},{"start":8146.832,"end":8147.292,"text":"我們的建議其實很簡單"},{"start":8181.874,"end":8194.219,"text":"原則上來講不能等到他已經不能清償債務了這個時候再來想辦法應該是在過程中包含連續兩個季度如果他基本上都出現赤字可能就必須要協助輔導退場了"},{"start":8195.76,"end":8196.34,"text":"大法官462對教評會有一個簡單的解釋"},{"start":8226.521,"end":8226.681,"text":"文化委員會主席"},{"start":8250.215,"end":8275.936,"text":"有關於財務經營困難的部分對於招生已經明顯不足而且成本不足的學校基本上來講我們建議應該強化退場機制你退一個才能救一個按照我們以前一年平均人口30幾萬現在一年升不到14萬簡單講就是不可能再支援這麼多學校我們一直講退場但實際上退場機制一直不足至於有些需要盈利的部分我們建議教育部應該正式有證據的檢舉案"},{"start":8277.037,"end":8295.346,"text":"大部分的教育部其實不太敢干預大學的經營但是這些東西一直要等到爆發弊案其實影響政府聲譽的時候因為它不會只是大學的聲譽我覺得在介入其實是有困難的那至於學生跟老師的參決老師的部分我只講最後一個東西就是因為我剛才特別提到的"},{"start":8295.726,"end":8318.777,"text":"我覺得應該教育部雖然大學自治但是應該要學習向某些部會他要提供因為他雖然不適用教師雖然不適用那個勞基法但是至少要有一些不得訂定的限制條文比如說你契約不能訂定條文比如說你不能夠要求老師必須要把他的待遇或者是他的工作要求綁定招生這件事我覺得是要拉進去以上謝謝"},{"start":8321.701,"end":8327.144,"text":"謝謝楊逸峰,台灣教育人員產業工會的理事長他提了非常多點,包含就是學生參與權益被限制,招生扭曲教師權益教師幾乎沒有參與權,校長遴選政治化,公共監督缺乏等等提出解方包含,校會應該全責相扶,財政強化退場還有教育部至少要針對老師哪些事項不應該被規範,譬如說綁定招生等"},{"start":8349.978,"end":8350.86,"text":"陳培瑜委員發言"},{"start":8364.161,"end":8388.413,"text":"好 謝謝主席那在場各位先進謝謝大家剛剛踴躍提供的意見那我今天的發言有一些也跟大家有一些重複的地方但是我還是要主張我們的聲明來自於非常多學生或者是團體還有專家學者的建議當然也來自這幾年非常多事情的爆發我們認為有非常多事情其實教育部應該更加的積極第一個是關於學校資源分配跟招生政策的問題在今年的"},{"start":8391.975,"end":8414.841,"text":"業次長上任之後呢我其實第一個問次長的問題就是目前所有科系的偏頗其實來自於整個市場的考量學生因為就職的考量或是市場經濟的考量導致於人文、藝術、社會學院他們的招生率普遍下降但是教育部在這件事情上如果沒有相對應的作為或者是想像甚至相關的政策其實只會讓音樂、藝術、語言"},{"start":8417.382,"end":8445.43,"text":"相關人文社會科學系都會逐漸的消失我覺得這件事情教育部不可以沒有想像也不可以沒有相關政策因為畢竟這還是整個社會基礎發展的基礎但是如果我們所有的事情都以市場導向來看我可以想像未來的3到5年越來越多的系所會被合併減招甚至停招那在我們辦公室其實就有接到陳情是來自於中南部的一所私校大學還不是專科他們有相關的表演藝術系所"},{"start":8446.61,"end":8464.749,"text":"學校在招生政策會議上﹐就直接決議要他們系所停招﹐但是並沒有請﹐並沒有請全體的師生表達意見﹐甚至在全體師生知道這個相關決定之後﹐做出抗議﹐校方還是不願意把相關的資訊公開透明﹐而這只是我剛剛說的前提的冰山一角﹐"},{"start":8465.349,"end":8465.369,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":8488.058,"end":8503.262,"text":"文化、藝術、人文、社會學系會面臨命運如果教育部再主張以大學自主就要放任大學這樣處理那我不敢想像未來台灣走在路上的人才是不是有三分之二全部都是從所謂電機、機械、理工"},{"start":8505.223,"end":8505.263,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":8523.112,"end":8523.132,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":8538.9,"end":8561.289,"text":"目前有非常多音樂科系他們的招生人數也一再下降我提出如果教育部可以積極的協助所謂的AI學程甚至有跨校的課程那可不可以積極的去協助相關這些科系他們的課程規劃有更多的想像而不要只有局限在只有音樂跟藝術的發展其實他們有機會往管理學院去走或者是往產業規劃的角度結合他原本的音樂藝術跟語文的部分"},{"start":8567.752,"end":8589.008,"text":"我相信這樣的科系還是有機會招收到更好的學生、更多的學生這個部分我認為是教育部最重要的事情接下來要談產學合作,剛剛也有先進談到產學合作我想要談一下教育部當時為了促進產學合作還有人才培育創新在2021年制定了國家重點領域產學合作以及人才培育創新條例"},{"start":8590.529,"end":8613.741,"text":"協助國立大學可以設立國家重點領域研究學院由政府跨部會組成審議會再由國立大學由校務會議授權設立的監督會還有研究學院所設立的管理會讓產官學還有學生等各界代表共同參與讓產業可以有序有效參與產學合作及人才培育這個是教育部當時美好的想像跟政策"},{"start":8614.381,"end":8629.748,"text":"但我們要問,在相關產學合作而提出創新計劃去設立的這些研究學院規劃的期程是8到12年不等,但是在這段期間,有因為研究學院運作而需要使用的研究設備等動產,還有校舍校地等不動產"},{"start":8630.908,"end":8654.364,"text":"必須拜託教育部作為主管機關在辦理相關創新計畫的時候必須要多加留意其實已經非常多弊案都已經在新聞世界上大家看過我就不再贅述請教育部不要一再的放任後續的事情再來由於創新條例第27條規定研究學院所需的採購除我國締結之條約或協定另有規定者外不適用政府採購法之規定"},{"start":8655.905,"end":8676.118,"text":"也就是即便研究學院就期動產的採購事項在同條第二項有要求訂定採購作業規定並且應該經過管理會審議通過後再報監督會備查可是這仍然跟過去國立大學依循政府採購法規定進行採購作業有所不同所以相關的問題就會產生接下來創新條例28條規定研究學院因為執行第五條事項"},{"start":8681.582,"end":8699.689,"text":"得將金管之國有不動產及動產以出租、設定地上權或無償使用提供給合作企業開發、興建或營運不受國有財產法第28條規定限制但是這也跟國立大學、過去校舍、校地等國有財產使用的狀況不一樣"},{"start":8701.87,"end":8711.878,"text":"雖然教育部寫的是德並非研究學院可以隨便直接把國有不動產或動產提供給合作企業使用但是教育部仍然應該要積極負起主管機關的責任確實而且審慎的督導各個學校"},{"start":8716.681,"end":8718.282,"text":"大學法及相關細則有規定學校應公佈哪些資訊"},{"start":8738.175,"end":8763.536,"text":"甚至在私校法裏面也有明定學校應該資訊網路要公開向學生收取費用的項目用途數額相關預算編列的項目種類標準計算方法……這麼多應該要公佈的事情但是如同我剛說的學校決議要停招的事情一旦他們自己校務會議做了決定就沒有辦法再處理所以非常多校務諮詢沒有公開透明這件事情已經是大學常年治理的問題我認為教育部也要積極的面對"},{"start":8764.597,"end":8765.137,"text":"發言委員：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員："},{"start":8786.971,"end":8786.991,"text":"公佈會議"},{"start":8810.066,"end":8810.606,"text":"以上,謝謝主席,謝謝各位先進"},{"start":8837.642,"end":8838.202,"text":"我們現在請私立大學﹚"},{"start":8864.734,"end":8892.59,"text":"校院協進會理事長何明果發言我們下一位是臺灣高等教育產業工會的秘書長劉梅君教授請準備范委員還有各位先進大家好那今天一個禮拜第二次上臺我很欽佩就是前面那個先進來也有提到就是整個今天開這個會主要的問題就是出現在少子化跟經費不足就是所謂貧賤夫妻百事哀"},{"start":8895.872,"end":8913.263,"text":"學生最大的權益就是學校永續經營只要永續經營,今天都沒有這個問題那我在上一次的報告也有講到就是高教室其實是有成本的我們其實可以請教育部幫我們算一下人事費,其實我們經常在看的話"},{"start":8914.582,"end":8917.464,"text":"文學院10平方米、理學院12平方米、工學院17平方米、研究所22平方米"},{"start":8941.303,"end":8966.022,"text":"一平用造價15萬貪60年獎光文學院每個人光貪折舊要貪7500塊可是現在15萬已經蓋不起來了現在已經是將近30萬了所以光貪折舊費就要貪掉15000塊那現在這樣這個還沒有開燈的狀況下就還沒有學校還沒有進行的狀況下其實學費都差不多沒有了所以這個部分呢其實成本可以委員或各教育部可以來算一下"},{"start":8966.682,"end":8993.23,"text":"至於說多少錢是學費負擔多少錢是政府負擔這是國立大學的問題那多少錢要董事會負擔這就變成私立大學的問題了那公共化要做到什麼程度其實都可以討論我們沒有意見就是你說學生應該負擔多少政府可以負擔多少那董事會去張羅多少那在這個地方就有談到因為私立學校董事會要負責學校的盈虧就是說國立大學"},{"start":8994.07,"end":8994.61,"text":"文化委員會主席"},{"start":9013.462,"end":9037.425,"text":"找了校長,校長要想辦法把這所有的資源做適當的分配以至於這個學校可以永續進行確保全校師生的權益這個是第一點我想要講的那我現在很欽佩像佛光,他們學校有佛光山每年2億8,我上去演講的時候是說假如我有2億8,因為他們每年都有2億8結果2億8我就躺著幹了所以有這麼多私人的企業能夠捐款這個是非常值得欽佩的"},{"start":9040.158,"end":9059.323,"text":"公立大學也很辛苦,我們國立大學的排名一直掉,教育經費不足,不是私立大學單獨的問題而已在學校董事會賦予校長責任,我們要做均勻的分配,其實在學校裡面要討論錢怎麼分的時候,因為就這麼一點錢要付的盈虧,當然就會有很多的"},{"start":9060.583,"end":9084.627,"text":"大家都有意見這個東西我們認為還是要尊重董事會因為他畢竟最後學校倒掉他要負責清償這些債務第二點就是說今天一切的問題都是來自少子化我曾經在很久很久以前當下我有講過我們的生殖比大概是23、24比1那OECD平均其實是16比1那我們人口從105年考試人口是24萬"},{"start":9087.768,"end":9113.98,"text":"到115年的時候這剩下16萬剛好24比1變成16比1如果24一變過的話其實所有老師都在云南的工作沒有人需要退場因為所有人都是照顧自己的學生因為其實學生的人口學生的特質也是等比例下降的所以現在因為以往一直往前補滿五的狀況上次完範圍就在那個地方學生都是補滿五所以這個清華跑到台大"},{"start":9114.7,"end":9114.72,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9134.534,"end":9160.549,"text":"量變引發質變所以這個制度如果沒有辦法說把這個生殖比一起降低的話事實上這個學校連現在公立大學都開始會有變開始發生質變這個是我在這邊提醒就是說如果說我們能夠提升降低這個生殖比啊那這樣子老師也不用那麼辛苦每天會招生那這個每天的工作量實在是很大這個老師們是非常的辛苦其實當校長自己也是老師我們也知道再來就是說"},{"start":9162.052,"end":9177.766,"text":"這個學生是不是應該來參與?我覺得學生應該鼓勵,因為我們就發現學生連社團活動都不大參加所以我們一定要鼓勵學生參加社團活動,我們每次要開西屋會議、開性評會就要一直等學生希望他們來,那他們也覺得很累,因為他們每次到處都要去參加,他們也覺得很辛苦"},{"start":9178.266,"end":9178.666,"text":"大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討"},{"start":9208.326,"end":9208.786,"text":"大山大王大師再幹一年"},{"start":9226.697,"end":9240.917,"text":"教育的亂象其實那時候是個案我覺得個案是個案處理我覺得教育部已經很辛苦了像解決國際產學專班像這些東西其實多少也是解決了國內勞力不足的問題"},{"start":9241.698,"end":9259.831,"text":"其實我們要在立法委員的位階應該再去想,想更高的問題,就是說我們現在人口一直變少,就是以後即使你全部都招護理系,他就照顧他爸爸就夠了,就沒有人了,因為你大家如果看那個樣子,就是那個人口倒山倒進哪行,光照顧他爸爸就不夠了,不用來照顧我們,所以"},{"start":9262.156,"end":9287.995,"text":"教育部在這個地方又負了很多責任比如要從國外引進40萬的研究醫生要留在臺灣這都是很大的工程我常常去查我都不好意思我們還去查班嗎我學校都把它停掉了我都覺得不好意思我自己兒子晚上有沒有去宿舍我都不知道我怎麼知道那個外籍生有沒有回宿舍他打工幾小時我都不知道我怎麼去管制他打工那個不是警察局的事還是移民署我不知道是該誰的事但是教育部負責了很多的責任替"},{"start":9288.695,"end":9288.875,"text":"以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":9299.261,"end":9299.821,"text":"臺灣學生聯合會常務理事曾宣凱"},{"start":9326.658,"end":9340.649,"text":"主席以及各位在場的先請大家早安剛剛非常多人都已經把我們現在高教這些年出現的一些亂象甚至是傷害已經講得非常清楚不過"},{"start":9341.529,"end":9368.788,"text":"也不過就是冰山一角還有非常多還沒有在我們這個公聽會裡面呈現出來的我們高教工會在2012年成立到現在12年了我們已經接受到非常多上千通電話求助吧還有一些人是求助我們之後也會到我們立委這個地方來做求助到目前為止看起來這些問題並沒有得到很大的一個解決"},{"start":9369.568,"end":9370.889,"text":"公聽會：立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會．"},{"start":9390.285,"end":9393.246,"text":"教育部：立法院第11屆第2會期教育部．立法院第11屆第2會期教育部．立法院第11屆第2會期"},{"start":9416.212,"end":9416.392,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9438.964,"end":9461.354,"text":"認真辦學的私立學校以及公立學校我們教育部都要大力支持認真辦學的可是對於那些不正辦學的這些學校特別是私立學校一定要有大多闊幅有很大的下重手要處理他而不是讓他放任因為放任他傷害的最終是我們高教"},{"start":9461.894,"end":9462.074,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":9487.462,"end":9514.521,"text":"所以一般委員要提案的時候會被阻撓另外很多影響師生權益的重大議案也沒有實質審議更沒有監督譬如說我們這邊也提了非常多我剛也說我們高教公會在過去12年接到非常非常非常多不管是學校的個別老師或是一群老師來跟我們談很多的出現的這些不正辦學然後傷害師生權益的一個現象"},{"start":9518.392,"end":9546.537,"text":"所以我們對這個校務會議這一塊我們有一個改革建議就是校務會議的這個委員教師代表應該要限於沒有兼任學術跟行政主管的這樣的一個教師可是過去看到有非常多因為他要一把抓所以他就會用這個有兼任學術的這個教師來抵充叫做教師代表那變成他們全部都是這一盤端去了那另外就是我們也希望能夠等比例的納入編制外的教職員代表"},{"start":9546.837,"end":9547.898,"text":"一年一聘 莫名其妙"},{"start":9567.694,"end":9594.257,"text":"不可思議既然他是一個常態需要的一個師資你怎麼會用一年一聘的方式呢台灣是一國好多字啊我們勞動部希望若是常聘就是應該是不定期契約結果你這個常聘的這個常態需要的這樣一個人才你居然是一年一聘是一個短期契約定期契約這是不對的一件事情我們也希望增加學生代表剛剛這個別的這個代表你都提到很多了我這邊就先暫時不談了"},{"start":9596.098,"end":9596.799,"text":"編制外教職員的工作權利法律保障"},{"start":9613.319,"end":9615.201,"text":"校長遴選的確在很多已經風雨飄搖的學校有非常多這方面的問題遴選的亂象出現"},{"start":9631.334,"end":9631.354,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9653.195,"end":9656.796,"text":"我相信如果您對於這個台灣的高等教育還有一些期望還希望它能夠有這個改善的話那這些問題其實不能坐視不管"},{"start":9680.964,"end":9681.504,"text":"大學法有這樣的規定"},{"start":9698.679,"end":9698.699,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9720.416,"end":9723.558,"text":"教師法保障：不受勞動基準法保障：是法外顧問："},{"start":9746.669,"end":9766.621,"text":"我們都希望這一群人能夠納入保障還包括編制內的職員或是公私立大學編制外的職員或是公私立大學的實習生剛實習生也有提到了這些都還有很多問題期待我們教育部能夠大多克服我想大家就這樣 謝謝"},{"start":9769.732,"end":9770.772,"text":"教育及文化委員會委員會長"},{"start":9787.385,"end":9787.865,"text":"臺灣EDU教育協會常務理事 洪正祥"},{"start":9812.11,"end":9812.951,"text":"臺學聯常務理事曾宣楷"},{"start":9829.304,"end":9848.392,"text":"在場的少數學生團體的代表我想透過學生的視角來指出現在在大學的現場中他所發生的一個亂象以及高教治理的問題首先在現行的大學法他雖然在2005年的時候經過了全面的修正以強調教授治校的民主理想來展現大學自治的精神"},{"start":9848.792,"end":9874.126,"text":"但這樣的大學自治﹐是否能真的落實民主治理的理想﹐大學現行的內控機制及監督功能﹐是否能真正保障教職員生在校內事務的充分參與﹐誠如先前張雅玲委員所說﹐在今年年初的時候﹐就曾發生在某大學的校內會議上﹐有學生代表在參與會議的過程中遭遇了一些挫折﹐即是與學生有直接利害關係的事務﹐"},{"start":9875.366,"end":9892.777,"text":"卻被主席說行政的決策過程不需與學生討論更誇張的是在學生代表還被其他的與會代表直接關閉正在發言的麥克風更不用說其他學校類似的學生代表在校級會議上不被重視甚至是刻意忽視學生聲音的例子屢見不鮮"},{"start":9893.658,"end":9913.104,"text":"如果我們從個案來看通則的話﹐不難發現在現行的大學法﹐對於學生參與校務運作﹐的空間實在是非常不足﹐不管是警報這樣學生代表﹐在校務會議中只佔十分之一的比例﹐還是法規被抄議﹐讓校方能夠以輔導之名﹐來行控制學生會之事﹐"},{"start":9913.604,"end":9927.397,"text":"而根據發言委員：本會共同進行的調查中﹐有超過8成6的學生會﹐反映校務會議的問責與監督功能有待改善﹐有超過4成認為大學的公共監督不足﹐有8成在索取校務資訊時﹐"},{"start":9928.658,"end":9928.678,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9948.63,"end":9975.091,"text":"更不用說仍有許多學校的學生會﹐他們在會費的收取﹐財務自主以及選舉的獨立上﹐都有很大的改進空間﹐這樣的大學自治的框架﹐其實很難說它有效能夠解決當前的治理的困境﹐也未能充分保障學生代表的權利﹐因此我們提出了以下的訴求﹐第一﹐我們主張應該提高校務會議中學生代表的比例﹐將現行的十分之一提升至三分之一﹐"},{"start":9976.412,"end":9994.493,"text":"由於學生代表席次的嚴重不足導致學生對議案幾乎沒有實質的影響力那才陷入了學生代表無法改變現狀而使學生認為學生自治無法促成改變並且逐漸放棄校園民主的實踐然後來參與學生自治的惡性循環"},{"start":9995.274,"end":10009.718,"text":"所以剛剛前面的專家學者也有提到說學生參與度不足但我們其實也想提出來討論的是這樣的狀況到底是因果關係到底是先有因還是有果"},{"start":10013.599,"end":10039.49,"text":"在2000年就直到2024年的就是現在其實學生一直在校園中還是被視為像過課一般的存在僅靠著在2005年的時候全盤修正讓校務會議學生代表在校務會中有十分之一的下線那藉此來維繫各校學生代表參與但這個十分之一其實也就成為現行學生代表參與的一個天花板"},{"start":10041.472,"end":10062.227,"text":"我們的確也了解到說﹐雖然這個三分之一的比例﹐可能在實務上﹐的確會有至暗難閒的地方﹐有些學校也可能會面臨﹐找不到學生代表的一個困境﹐當然我們也希望就這個比例的問題﹐來跟五大大學協定會﹐還有其他的團體﹐來做更進一步的討論﹐看如何能解決這個實務上才會遇到的問題﹐"},{"start":10062.847,"end":10081.493,"text":"或是也可以溝通看看,怎樣的比例才是大家都可以接受的一個共識。我們一直都認為,能夠建構一個能讓教職員生共同知曉,並確保校務會議能夠成為一個有效監督的問責機制,才能讓大學的校園成為不同群體都能發聲的民主治理的典範。"},{"start":10082.333,"end":10097.266,"text":"第二,我們也認為應明確賦予學生會的法人地位﹐確保其財務、人事與選舉的獨立性﹐因為當校園有健康的學生自治的環境時﹐才能確保學生權益能被保障﹐更是校園民主的一個具體落實"},{"start":10098.627,"end":10121.573,"text":"在各級會議中,擴大學生代表參與的空間也非常重要。大學法第33條已經明定,大學應該經由選舉產生的學生代表出席與其學業、生活及訂定將成有關規章之會議。但是現況卻是校方可以認定舉凡,像是建設、預算編列、緊急措施、像是防疫會議等等重大事務的會議。"},{"start":10122.213,"end":10124.495,"text":"教育及文化委員會．立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會．立法院第2會期教育及文化委員會．立法院第2會期"},{"start":10145.448,"end":10162.047,"text":"認定的會議外﹐皆不應排除學生參與第四﹐在校長遴選方面﹐我們主張應該在中央法規﹐也就是大學法中明定將遴選委員會的成員﹐至少要納入一名學生代表﹐來增加選舉的透明性﹐還有公正性"},{"start":10163.325,"end":10183.173,"text":"由於少子女化﹐大學新生人數到2028年的時候﹐預計只會剩下15.7萬人﹐有四成左右的學校將面臨倒閉的危機﹐那大學的退場或系所停招的過程中﹐學生的決策正是保障學生權益的重中之重﹐這些訴求並非僅為了改革而改革﹐"},{"start":10183.573,"end":10206.973,"text":"成就一個共榮的決策環境是為了追求一個公平透明能回應學生與社會需求的一個高教體系我們始終相信30年後的社會答案就在今日的校園我們希望能攜手與校長團體及他領域的代表共同來就大學法的修法開始改革使台灣的高教環境能真正邁向民主治理與永續發展謝謝"},{"start":10210.205,"end":10227.671,"text":"謝謝臺灣學生聯合會的常務理事曾宣凱代表臺學聯發言他有提到幾點第一個就是現況的十分之一學生參與變成是天花板他們主張提升學生在校會的比例三分之一也願意跟大學校長團體們討論如果有些學校參與不足的時候怎麼解決第二個他們主張各級學校的會議應該擴大學生參與現況是校方願意決定"},{"start":10238.834,"end":10239.074,"text":"臺灣EDU教育協會常務理事 洪正祥"},{"start":10264.015,"end":10279.89,"text":"教委、各位委員、與會先進,大家好。我是台灣EDO教育協會的常務理事洪正祥,目前就讀東大學政治學系。那今天希望從普大體系跟技職體系的學生的角度,一起來檢視大學治理、產學合作,並展望我國高教的公共化方向。首先,"},{"start":10281.031,"end":10306.047,"text":"談到產學合作的部分,無論是技高、大學產學合作的目的,原先是為了提升學生專業能力,創造學習機會,提升就業能力。產學合作的目的必須很清楚,它並不是提供企業便宜、好用、廉價的勞動力,而是提升整個教育與產業界的協同效益與學生的競爭力,那達到產學接軌的目的。再者,在校外實習的部分,我們看到現行法規,缺乏對學生實習工作權的保障。"},{"start":10307.199,"end":10332.451,"text":"目前我們並沒有明確的規範,分布僅僅是前陣子中州科大外籍學生的案例在本國籍學生的案例上,舊北科產學的學生公們反映說他們大一執訓的地點在山上,從市區步行到他們住宿的地點要20分鐘然後大二在產學工作之中或許做跟正職員工是一樣的事情但是薪水卻遠遠不及正職員工,變成廉價的勞動力而我們的法律中對於這些學生工資勞動環境都沒有"},{"start":10333.752,"end":10354.505,"text":"明定清楚導致學生被剝削或是從事與學習無關的工作我們要確保產學攜手不是以學生的權益為代價產學合作不應該浮映於企業的短期利益或業務考量之上合作計畫的學習內容必須具有交易意義並且具有清晰的評估與追蹤機制包含對產學合作的交易意義與商業目標進行實際評估確保合作不偏離交易原則"},{"start":10355.225,"end":10381.22,"text":"我們建議在條例中明文保障學生參與產學合作的權利並不僅限於工時限制合理津貼及保險保障確保學生是在安全且受尊敬的情況下愉快地學習與實習並且增加產學教育評估的追蹤機制在後續可以有一個更完整的包含追蹤學生在產業切實學習內容學生在實習後的回饋學生的勞全等等確保學生在實習過程中的"},{"start":10382.566,"end":10403.382,"text":"是符合產學合作目的目前全台產學吸收的國立科技大學招生都偏重工科在商科的部分就連北商這一所以商科為主的即時學校都只有一所產學吸收的專班更何況外語農科等等技高類群的可以報名產學吸收專班的真的是比日本製造的壓縮機還要稀少"},{"start":10405.504,"end":10430.967,"text":"而學校能夠進行產學攜手、產學合作的專案相當仰賴校方的職校能力與校友資源我們認為教育部應該鼓勵學校開設產學專班通盤檢討整個招生命額並且教育部、科技大學、經濟部、勞動部、國科會甚至是國營企業應該要跨部會整合協調甚至研究修法讓學生有機會進入國營企業學生跟家長都能感覺到進入技職體系的未來可看性"},{"start":10432.932,"end":10452.892,"text":"最後,在產學合作部分,無論是校內,常常只有個別科系作為樣板。這不應該是個別科系的特權,而是應該將這些業資資源在各科系當中給普及化、普遍化。無論是校內還是校外,產學資源多集中在都市區域,導致城鄉之間的教育資源不均。我們認為應該確保偏向學生能夠有公平實際機會,"},{"start":10454.854,"end":10482.217,"text":"並且進行如設備更新、實施津貼補助等等的措施回到大學法的部分我們認為學生參與學生自治除了建立對於校園的認同感以外促進學生公共參與和為自身權益更關乎學生能否在校園上有真正的民主治理進而成長為現代獨立自主的公民首先針對學生代表在校級會議的參與現行大學法中僅規定佔校會議10%有關其他會議更是沒有明定的參加比例而在代表的實際運作中學生也常常屬於被動的角色"},{"start":10482.677,"end":10503.294,"text":"學生﹚學校經常經由校長內部討論議案後進行送出﹚而學校如果要討論﹚要索取這些資訊的時候﹚也相當的仰賴校方的決定會不會提供﹚我們認為學生代表不應該是走個過場﹚而是應該讓學生代表充分發揮其監督校務的核心價值﹚而根據大學法第33條第1項的規定﹚學生代表要有選舉產生﹚但在現實的情況﹚"},{"start":10504.555,"end":10508.176,"text":"學校直接指派學生代表參加重要的會議,並沒有經過選舉的過程。"},{"start":10525.395,"end":10544.966,"text":"根據大學法的規定,學生會的運作應該需要校方輔導,校方提供會員資料,但實際運作上,學生會在進行會員資料收集及利用時,都沒有辦法獲得校方的支援,建議各校應該在合法基礎上提供學生會必要的資訊。"},{"start":10546.167,"end":10571.754,"text":"這樣才能幹好的辦理選舉或是服務學生也可以比照大學法的得請求會費代收的模式由校方學術學生會進行個人資料蒐集告知與統一程序確保學生會在合法安全的環境下表彰學生的隱私權與參與權此外教育部推動高等教育生跟計畫之中在補助額度的核定中應該要更加重視參與學生參與校務的實際情況目前該計劃的整合指標主要集中在辦學成效的公開但卻忽略了學生參與校務的實際具體情形"},{"start":10574.395,"end":10602.893,"text":"過去我們已經見到﹐校方以小學校特色為名﹐在實質上削弱學生的權利﹐建議教育部未來在高教生跟計劃中﹐將學生參與教育的程度納入補助評估指標﹐使得各校在接受公共資源的時候﹐也能真正重視學生的參與權﹐強化校內的民主機制最後回到校長遴選的部分今年4月東吳大學剛好睽違12年進行校長遴選那在四一大學中﹐大部分學校的校長遴選委員會﹐都沒有任何學生代表委員會的成員也是由董事會直接指派"},{"start":10604.214,"end":10613.604,"text":"學生對於私校的校務運作﹐學校長遴選﹐其實是幾乎沒有話語權的公益大學部分﹐在現行學生代表受限於大學法第9條第二項制規定"},{"start":10618.871,"end":10638.718,"text":"被劃入學校代表的五分之二 許多學校在校長臨選委員會上仍然沒有學代即使有也只有一名學代 而且因為是受限於前述的條例我們認為在學生代表的比例上應該回歸到整個的調整與學校校務會議代表的名額做出區隔那學生代表往往也是真都學校力道最強的委員之一"},{"start":10640.279,"end":10663.658,"text":"臺灣EDU教育協會一直強調在校園之中學生是整個學校的主體但老師與學生互惠主體老師與行政互惠主體學生與行政互惠主體我們應該重視不同利害關係人之間的溝通並在制度層面上去保障大家的權利與義務更好地去反映校園裏面不同主體之間的需求與期望也讓校園的治理不再只是少數人就能決定的事情"},{"start":10667.84,"end":10684.094,"text":"謝謝台灣EDU教育協會常務理事 洪正祥的發言我想還有幾個點我提一下包含學生代表不應該被直接指派大學法也應該要監督學生代表產生的方式還有校務會議應該資訊透明教育部學生應該把學生參與納入評估的指標"},{"start":10690.199,"end":10691.539,"text":"專家學者均已發言完畢"},{"start":10719.452,"end":10732.178,"text":"我這邊談到的名字是廖曉琦是陽明交通大學的學生他是守護竹北六章里聚落學生組織的代表發言時間是幾分鐘五分鐘好嗎"},{"start":10743.648,"end":10759.357,"text":"各位好我是來自兩名交大的學生那我叫馬小琦那今天來到這邊是代表守護竹北六角里的學生組織那會來到這邊是因為我們學校在今年四月的時候就面臨科技公司跟我們學校想要在這個客家文化學院所在的"},{"start":10759.757,"end":10781.736,"text":"主北六甲校區強行推動新建這個大樓來做所謂的產學合作那我們有一些關於就是高教的產學合作跟治理問題的觀察想要在今天跟大家談論那第一個是就針對狹義的產學合作就是所謂專課以上學校產學合作實施辦法就前面的教師公會其實有提到這個法條去頭去尾其實只剩下9條那我們認為這個問題不在於它只剩下9條而且它根本就沒有說什麼"},{"start":10786.44,"end":10805.954,"text":"我們用一些例子來讓大家明白就是現在的產學合作的標準其實非常寬鬆它實務上在學校裡面是出現先產後學的亂象那以我們學校的案例就可以看到這個產學合作法律定義是非常不嚴謹的那我們學校這一案在各種會議上的議案名稱是什麼呢是所謂的無償捐贈大樓案"},{"start":10808.415,"end":10824.754,"text":"對,那學校是以無償捐贈大樓案包裝這個議案並且對外宣稱這是一個產學合作案那在後續還是以所謂辦理產學合作管社捐贈租金收益原則來去談所謂租金是多少然後該如何去使用這個空間的分配"},{"start":10825.294,"end":10848.662,"text":"所以我們可以看到一個實際的情況就是在學校4月開始推動這個議案然後預計7月開始蓋大樓那所以我們可以看到的是在開始蓋大樓以前學校根本就不用去談什麼是產學合作要學什麼然後到底要產什麼要學什麼那實際的情況就是好像有產有學就好但是這個比例到底是什麼然後甚至我們在台南校區更是出現這個企業的這個大樓管理員反過來問學生說你怎麼研究到這麼晚"},{"start":10859.065,"end":10876.11,"text":"法規第10條第1項現行就有規範教育部應實施績效評量所以教育部的事前審核機制是沒有的在這一點我們希望可以提出來希望教育部可以是否來考量一下做一個產學合作事前查核機制再來第三點是校內的審議機制其實也是代加強"},{"start":10876.77,"end":10892.192,"text":"在這個整個產學合作推動的過程中學校沒有辦理任何的公聽會不需要向師生說明我們到底在進行什麼樣子的產學合作只要在會議上提案無償捐贈管事就可以來推動所謂聲稱是產學合作大樓但根本不是產學合作案的這樣一個議案"},{"start":10893.334,"end":10893.975,"text":"政策上的補助"},{"start":10923.397,"end":10952.13,"text":"這是一個什麼情況呢也就是說企業可以直接在國有的文教用地上新建大樓而且其中很多樓層他們可以直接坐來辦公企業直接在學校辦公在實務上產學合作是這樣子一個樣態第二種我們也看到清大的國際政經學院也是一個私人經濟會捐助一個校中校的模式在治理跟運行那這樣子的一個案子算不算產學合作可不可以用產學合作來規範我們需要來思考這件事情那第三個我們也看到去年就是所謂永齡基金會來捐助台大"},{"start":10953.14,"end":10956.745,"text":"臺大教授提出公開相關契約臺大說不公開基於保護永齡基金會的權利與法律利益不公開後來臺大教授提告後來有勝訴所以我們可以看到在公校裡面"},{"start":10969.804,"end":10970.544,"text":"中文字幕提供"},{"start":10986.63,"end":11012.348,"text":"如何重新界定與納入非產學合作的關係又要如何規範最重要是要來確保學生如何在其中權益是不會受損以及整個大學的校內的治理是不受侵害的那最後我們就提說在整個陽明交大的這個產學合作案子我們看到的是整個高教的治理機制非常的失禮那我們學校的經驗是當時候的學校高層是在議案推動之後才來私下問學院說我們現在有這樣的一個議案那你們想要有什麼需求我們再來看看"},{"start":11016.571,"end":11016.591,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11046.391,"end":11048.551,"text":"養嬌大學生團體代表馬曉琦養嬌大學生團體代表馬曉琦"},{"start":11070.196,"end":11071.577,"text":"發言完畢就請教育部政務次長葉秉成就現行的規定我想提出回應好嗎您剛講說您覺得今天的標題大學亂象"},{"start":11090.054,"end":11090.094,"text":"主席"},{"start":11107.878,"end":11136.196,"text":"好謝謝主席好謝謝各界的這個專家那我想其中有幾件事情我覺得可能還是要跟大家可能還是要澄清一下包括剛才還是有有這個專家提到說這個有學校這個這個扣這個境外學生的這個護照證照這件事情我還是要強調一下109學年度之後109學年度教育部就要求所有的大專院校不能做這件事情所以目前這樣的狀況在大專院校"},{"start":11136.896,"end":11165.045,"text":"在教育部的監督之下是沒有發生的但如果有很歡迎讓我們知道這我們會嚴懲這些學校那目前的這些發生的一些案例其實都不是在大專院下這我想要可能藉這個機會再澄清一下那剛才這個也有這個專家提到就是說這個關於這個私立學校的教師的這個待遇的部分我想這個地方也藉這個機會跟大家說明一下根據這個教師待遇條例的規定私校教師本縫"},{"start":11165.905,"end":11193.176,"text":"本縫必須比照公立教師但是教師研究費則沒有強制比照但是在教師研究費的這一個部分本部為了鼓勵各私校教師的研究費要希望能夠比照公立的學校的標準所以本部補助這個私校他這個教師研究費如果是要提升的話他這個增加的成本是七成是由本部來負擔的來補助"},{"start":11194.497,"end":11194.617,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11210.316,"end":11237.434,"text":"跟上公立學校的標準這部分的九成是由教育部在負擔的我想這一部分也希望讓大家知道說我們是很努力的希望有在提升這個私立學校的教師的這個待遇能夠跟公立教師的能夠拉齊拉近那另外關於剛才也很多的這個夥伴有提到就是說這個關於實習的這個部分我想我們非常認同就針對實習學生的這個權益保障我們覺得是一個非常重要的事情"},{"start":11239.455,"end":11259.343,"text":"實習專法還沒有完成立法之前本部已經針對學生實習過程當中我們學校要求學校規劃並保障學習的權益比如說像剛才大家非常關注的一件事就是職災的保障我們已經要求學校要用商業的保險來保障所有學生在實習過程當中的職災保障這都不需要有"},{"start":11265.706,"end":11291.545,"text":"另外剛才也有專家還有先進提到這個產創條例這個部分那我想這個產創條例這個可能這個因為當初這個產創條例的這個它的這個立法的這個脈絡也是說它是希望能夠成為我想這是一個有點像這個高教沙盒就好像這個體制內教育在做實驗教育一樣那整個高教當初其實也是說很多的大學認為說"},{"start":11292.606,"end":11292.646,"text":"主席"},{"start":11309.289,"end":11309.309,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11334.907,"end":11335.207,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11360.103,"end":11360.123,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11378.707,"end":11403.324,"text":"學生自治的這些這個各個學校的學生自治的夥伴他們的這個經驗能夠傳承怎麼幫大家增能培訓那讓我們校園裡面有更多對校園事務閒熟然後瞭解的這些學生自治的這個幹部我們期待這樣的學生能夠更多那這個未來這樣子在校會代表裡面未來不管是大學法修法那個比例怎麼調升這裡面"},{"start":11405.726,"end":11405.846,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11432.912,"end":11439.718,"text":"謝謝葉秉成次長的回應我們今天公聽會真的非常感謝各位熱烈的分享包含針對產學合作高教治理出現的亂象雖然不是所有的大學都有亂象但是這個頻率真的是非常的高嚴重影響師生的權益"},{"start":11455.953,"end":11455.973,"text":"公聽會．"},{"start":11479.451,"end":11479.471,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11498.507,"end":11501.449,"text":"教育部應嚴禮修正大學法提出教育部自己的草案版本包含今天公聽會講的各界的意見進行全面盤點、檢討還有相關法規,比如說私立學校法"},{"start":11521.263,"end":11521.823,"text":"研擬修正專科以上學校產學合作實施辦法"},{"start":11541.476,"end":11541.576,"text":"請教育部發言"},{"start":11569.795,"end":11570.255,"text":"依據立法院職權行使法第58條規定"},{"start":11588.289,"end":11601.553,"text":"委員會應於公聽會終結後10日內依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者那第59條規定公聽會報告作為審查該特定議案的參考所以我們會把各位的發言意見還有謝謝現場今天出席很多委員準備的書面資料綜合歸納會編陳冊送交本院全體委員及所有出席的與會貴賓"},{"start":11619.7,"end":11636.217,"text":"感謝各位出席今天舉辦的公聽會所提供的寶貴意見我們會審慎考量作為未來修法跟政策監督的依據再次謝謝大家也謝謝我們今天幾位學者專家還待到最後聽完全程謝謝網路直播上所聽的朋友 謝謝"},{"start":11642.687,"end":11644.531,"text":"謝謝大家 謝謝各位辛苦了"}]}},{"id":"156811","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156811","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667838b067867f7bbe7c370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86be9164ec7d2db186c05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:00:38 - 12:07:11","影片長度":"00:06:33","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:07:11+08:00","duration":393,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.35159375000000004,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.24534375,"end":9.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.93659375,"end":11.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.872843750000001,"end":14.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.49221875,"end":19.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.297843750000002,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.44096875,"end":23.301593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.80784375,"end":24.465968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.92159375,"end":31.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.009093750000005,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.68409375,"end":32.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.08909375,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.96659375,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.252843750000004,"end":38.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.518468750000004,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.024718750000005,"end":40.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.83471875,"end":41.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.56034375,"end":41.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.96534375,"end":41.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.99909375,"end":42.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.64034375,"end":47.095343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.85971875,"end":43.737218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.22596875,"end":49.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.01471875,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.119093750000005,"end":63.345968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.86471875000001,"end":65.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.88159375000001,"end":65.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.75909375,"end":65.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.79284375,"end":74.95596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.24284375,"end":79.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.27159375000001,"end":82.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.17409375000001,"end":89.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.09284375,"end":91.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.01659375000001,"end":92.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.65721875000001,"end":97.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.49659375,"end":100.04909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.97721875,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.02784375,"end":101.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.99346875,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.04721875000001,"end":113.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.51534375000001,"end":114.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.27846875,"end":118.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.79721875000001,"end":119.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.45096875,"end":121.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.06659375000001,"end":125.12534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.51346875,"end":127.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.04471875000002,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.12471875,"end":136.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.66784375,"end":138.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.84471875,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.53221875,"end":144.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.56534375,"end":147.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.97409375,"end":153.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.07846875,"end":165.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.38471875000002,"end":168.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.27471875,"end":169.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.52346875,"end":170.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.79346875000002,"end":177.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.23096875000002,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.88909375,"end":190.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.76909375000002,"end":198.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.03784375,"end":199.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.77596875,"end":202.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.69971875000002,"end":203.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.98221875000002,"end":213.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.39409375000002,"end":216.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.77346875,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.94596875000002,"end":224.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.42221875,"end":224.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.40096875,"end":224.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.43471875,"end":224.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.45159375,"end":224.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.56971875000002,"end":232.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.05784375000002,"end":236.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.31471875000003,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.89221875,"end":245.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.96721875000003,"end":263.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.87159375000005,"end":270.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.19534375,"end":284.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.73846875000004,"end":279.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.66221875,"end":283.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.45909375,"end":294.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.33096875,"end":302.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.88659375000003,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.97409375,"end":310.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.14284375,"end":310.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.21034375,"end":310.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.96971875,"end":316.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.89284375,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.26721875000004,"end":332.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.36721875,"end":333.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.07596875,"end":337.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.90659375,"end":339.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.12159375000005,"end":338.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.67409375,"end":350.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.82846875,"end":357.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.86534375,"end":362.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.99534375,"end":377.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.72721875,"end":378.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.85784375000003,"end":382.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.70534375,"end":387.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.90284375000005,"end":388.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.37534375,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.34096875,"end":392.96534375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.834,"end":10.958,"text":"組織在場委員先進列席政務局央事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":18.513,"end":46.634,"text":"委員好部長好今天一上午主持會議讓我最驚豔的就是對於即將成立的運動部部長不減雄心壯志不排除未來也來擔任運動部的部長是這樣嗎不排除嗎只有這個可能嗎跟委員報告我想這一個我們就把事情做好因為剛才因為有委員指名指名好幾個不要讓他們為難是是是那假設未來您是運動部長你自己有興趣的是哪個項目"},{"start":48.414,"end":60.106,"text":"總算有個項目吧?我其實從年輕一直有多項的運動哪一項?你比較?我玩帆船、我打桌球、網球、籃球、棒球、排球、手球"},{"start":64.932,"end":66.833,"text":"體育和教育有什麼關聯?"},{"start":96.787,"end":118.378,"text":"體育跟教育簡單講簡單來講就就同委員講的我們這一個體育體育他其實不是只是一個運動他當然對身他除了有運動以外他也有一些教育的一個手段教育的一些內涵元素裡面譬如說包括健康包括營養包括什麼那運動呢運動是什麼"},{"start":124.327,"end":126.559,"text":"運動 追求成就,可以消愁解悶。」"},{"start":128.403,"end":153.388,"text":"這是一個好很好那我想呢今天我們來做一些基本的探索齁我這邊列了八項齁今天可能大家談到問題往上上一頁齁其實我想要關心的就是體育教育跟體育的關聯其實大家也在關心委員也在關心說運動跟教育的差異以及體育組原本在教育部下的角色和功能還有未來運動部成立之後和教育部的分工關係是不是今天很多委員都集中在這四點"},{"start":155.892,"end":164.818,"text":"運動教練與體育教師的差異,你覺得教練跟體育老師有什麼差別?我直接告訴你啦,這個體育老師因為學生成績不好被fire啦,但是體育運動教練可能隊伍表現不佳他就沒有飯碗了是不是這樣?"},{"start":178.408,"end":199.769,"text":"有可能對另外我也關心說在學的選手和他在學校的關係另外我們也談到說教練的權益和保障以及未來的考評是不是這樣今天很多委員關心到說在學選手的學習權利以及運動生涯的發展好以下這四個項目主委來跟你請教往下看好再往下看"},{"start":200.834,"end":218.512,"text":"其實這門提到了齁球員轉隊遭禁賽是因為惡意挖角為什麼會有這個項目呢?譬如說A縣市的國小選手因為雙親在B縣市工作他畢業後呢就到B縣市的國中結果就因為這樣的關係被禁賽兩年署長你剛好來了署長有這樣的情況嗎?"},{"start":219.96,"end":239.067,"text":"法務委員我們國小的部分這學期開始已經解除已經解除了好那如果就讀A高中他跟假教練一起結果假教練的轉到B高中所以呢B高中的這個選手要跟去B高中到高了這個選手會被禁賽署長這個情況怎麼解決法務委員這部分我們是由高中體總組織組成一個那個審查的委員會由這個委員會去針對個案來去做一個審查"},{"start":244.409,"end":262.558,"text":"來部長我這就用這個例子讓你知道為什麼我們重視在學選手跟學校的關係因為選手本身跟教練非常密切他的職業他的運動上的發展跟他的學習是兩個路線因此他為了運動生涯他可能會去改變他的學校的學習路徑你同意這個部分以後做個檢討嗎"},{"start":264.025,"end":283.012,"text":"我認為是因為包含這一次的運動部我們希望從社區裡邊我們學校裡邊的運動因為他確實有的小學他打桌球結果他國中的時候他因為社區的國中沒有桌球對我瞭解所以我認為請部長未來在所謂的在學選手跟學校關係是我們會整體的"},{"start":285.254,"end":301.014,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．一）運動部組織法草案根據規定辦理教練研習,我們看了一下,未達成比率高達6成以上,那麼這個部分請問署長,那未來這個教練的獎席有關教練證的重大權益是由運動部來發落嗎?是這樣嗎?"},{"start":303.156,"end":326.65,"text":"報委員是的那這都影響到他的年度考核以及他的年度計劃的寫金額都會影響到好那另外呢繼續問下去齁在役的選手他申請轉任教練的預算執行率偏低部長請你看一下過去體育署在我們教育部之下從19年到113年他的這個執行率啊轉任教練的執行率偏低那請問部長"},{"start":327.19,"end":344.145,"text":"教育部組織法草案案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件"},{"start":350.868,"end":352.191,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 。"},{"start":358.118,"end":387.341,"text":"這我們來努力來研議所以你答應當運動部長了嘛謝謝你鼓掌長最後我們最後一個結論所以請你通盤檢討各單項體育協會監督部長的弊病運動部應該投入資源來解決長期的問題那也請未來呢通盤檢討在役選手申請轉任教練的相關規定以配合在學選手生涯規劃來檢討那另外對於惡意挖角的處分應該處分惡意挖角的學校教練不應該讓學生來承擔後果尤其最後一項你現在擔任教育部長就可以承諾可以嗎"},{"start":388.943,"end":389.865,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"}]}},{"id":"156802","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156802","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d46e6505a483a4be3fdf6840d68fb6dfea236d48226e86beec9b031307793c685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"10:22:47 - 10:27:43","影片長度":"00:04:56","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會（事由：「大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:22:47+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T10:27:43+08:00","duration":296,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.9209687500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.76471875,"end":8.114093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.025343750000001,"end":56.275343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.54534375,"end":69.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.07909375,"end":74.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.41596875,"end":145.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.13471875000002,"end":242.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.35159375,"end":263.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.73659375,"end":279.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.03784375000004,"end":290.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.95159375000003,"end":295.96784375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.71,"end":24.589,"text":"郭昱晴委員發言後我們先休息五分鐘再請佛光大學校長趙校長發言好 謝謝主席今天舉辦這個公聽會我想這個高等教育其實是國家發展非常重要的一個基礎但是台灣的大學現在在招生的名額上面其實會發現這個缺額近年來是不斷地在攀升當中"},{"start":26.531,"end":55.053,"text":"查覺到的一個比較大的一個危機就是以文學院跟社會科學院我想應該是這個招生的重災區或舉例來講這個文化大學為例112學年它的文學院跟社科院還有商學院的缺額都超過50%那另外的部分的科系像是俄文系、英文系、地質系這類的這個系所他們的招生學生的人數甚至低於20個人"},{"start":57.195,"end":80.957,"text":"我想這個現象大概也反映出當然是跟我們少子化有些關係那另外就是大家對於所謂的產業的一個變遷跟市場上的一個需求其實已經出現了大家好像比較偏重理科反而這些文科其實是被弱化的那這也是我會比較擔心的一個部分那另外其實在這個高等教育研究期間2020年他也特別指出"},{"start":81.658,"end":87.803,"text":"臺灣的高教的經費以競爭型的經費佔44%這已經是高出像是韓國的40%所以目前我們是主要的一些所謂的對高校的一個補助都是以競爭型為主但是我們的競爭型這個機制其實也會在資源的分配上我們也很難去避免變成強者很強"},{"start":109.901,"end":133.998,"text":"因為比較好的一些頂尖大學他們因為研究資源比較容易吸引產業的這樣子的一個轉移或者是捐助那相對的來講其實就會擴大更大的這個學校之間的一些差距那一些中小型的一個學校他大概就只能仰賴一些比方說他技術的轉移或者他出租他的校舍作為增加收入的一個來源那我覺得這個就會變成強者很強"},{"start":137,"end":139.361,"text":"中小型學校本身的收入,地處比較好地段的學校開始出租校內的閒適空間"},{"start":157.668,"end":160.892,"text":"出租這個閒置的空間相對來講也壓縮到學生他們在使用他們應該要想使用的空間的權益發生了許多爭議舉例來講像是臺大跟臺師大他們將校內的一些空間租給參與業者"},{"start":175.451,"end":203.823,"text":"尤其是台體大出租運動實習中心的計畫引發更大的爭議學生甚至認為他們自己本身受教的權益已經受損甚至還站出來說他們要用集體休學來做這樣子的抗議但是因為租金我們可想而知它其實是一個收入比較穩定的當然有一些大學他們是樂於出租自己本身的產業但也凸顯到了我們的高等教育的經費"},{"start":204.943,"end":205.244,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":224.72,"end":241.62,"text":"大學以教學為中心,但公立學校的老師在私資上還是存在著差異行政院宣布在今年的1月1日起,公立大學大專院校教師才會比照軍公教條新4%"},{"start":243.542,"end":243.822,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":264.057,"end":264.097,"text":"主席"},{"start":291.994,"end":292.216,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"156788","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156788","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678ffe9ea99d649a2b55158c0789247a306ce953f66f7e5060557ff7adbaa11be625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"11:29:01 - 11:39:22","影片長度":"00:10:21","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:29:01+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:22+08:00","duration":621,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.26721875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":2.0897187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.94096875,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.290968750000001,"end":14.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.52221875,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.364093750000002,"end":30.524093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.91221875,"end":33.072218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.595343750000005,"end":40.767218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.31971875,"end":46.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.55096875,"end":52.461593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.11534375,"end":54.992843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":60.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.523468750000006,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.60284375,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.77096875000001,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.67346875,"end":88.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.07284375,"end":83.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.08971875,"end":84.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.28721875000001,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.69596875,"end":99.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.52159375000001,"end":104.30159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.47034375000001,"end":105.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.66846875,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.51221875,"end":138.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.45659375,"end":138.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.54096875000002,"end":138.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.69284375,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.75534375,"end":151.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.99034375000002,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.57409375,"end":180.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.84659375,"end":187.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.91721875000002,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.01409375,"end":190.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.53284375,"end":193.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.20721875,"end":195.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.13534375,"end":208.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.92659375000002,"end":229.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.49284375000002,"end":235.85909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.43284375000002,"end":252.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.70471875,"end":252.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.61596875,"end":291.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.09096875,"end":301.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.12346875000003,"end":299.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.41846875000005,"end":302.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.35909375,"end":333.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.64971875000003,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.92596875000004,"end":365.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.94846875,"end":378.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.73971875,"end":381.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.59159375,"end":382.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.12721875,"end":402.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.78659375,"end":406.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.74784375,"end":409.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.44784375,"end":415.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.93221875,"end":416.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.23159375,"end":436.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.60409375,"end":444.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.69659375000003,"end":438.78096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.52346875,"end":440.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.15971875,"end":448.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.19721875000005,"end":451.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.91846875000005,"end":456.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.24659375000005,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.80346875000004,"end":465.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.64221875000004,"end":463.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.39284375000005,"end":467.89034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.41346875000005,"end":471.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.92346875000004,"end":473.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.51409375000003,"end":474.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.87659375000004,"end":475.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.60221875,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.43721875000006,"end":482.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.33096875,"end":519.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.57846875,"end":542.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.41034375,"end":552.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.65346875,"end":553.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.5815937500001,"end":555.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.14659375,"end":556.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.90596875,"end":581.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.37471875,"end":591.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.8078437500001,"end":594.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.6597187500001,"end":618.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.08784375,"end":608.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.48721875,"end":618.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.33096875,"end":618.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.34784375,"end":620.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.6515937500001,"end":620.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.96346875,"end":621.87471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.329,"end":2.29,"text":"請顧部長來 部長請是 鴻偉部長我想請教因為這幾天昨天晚上翁小林委員想要刪除吳斯懷條款的提案其實當然大家都有很多的討論"},{"start":24.722,"end":52.062,"text":"那據我所知看起來這個翁小英委的提案可能會因為他連署人數不足不會提出可是我今天早上我們看了這個國民黨團尤其是他們書記長對這個事情的回應他說這個我們的退退退退退出席將領到對岸去唱對方的國歌這是基於禮貌"},{"start":54.164,"end":77.824,"text":"部長你同不同意我想如果是就是說認定已經認定比如說前面有一個個案這個張又俠的那個案子他我們已經做成一個他起立聆聽這個中國國歌這樣的一個行為我們已經依照違反兩岸人民關係條例9條13的規定給他"},{"start":79.918,"end":105.559,"text":"五年停止零售業推崩的百分之七十五（所以我已經認定像這樣的行為是屬於有損害國家尊嚴的一個行為是那我說現在我們看到災黨說認為這是基於禮貌甚至說你們這樣處罰這是對於思想自由的禁錮啊部長你同意這個講法嗎這是你在前置思想自由啊"},{"start":106.547,"end":124.533,"text":"沒有我想我們的處分已經表達了我們國防部的還有其他各部會因為我們這是經過審查會通過的這個審查會不是只有國防部也包括了像陸委會還有包括國安局等等其他各單位所以是大家的有權機關的也也參"},{"start":125.413,"end":150.282,"text":"就是對於兩岸關係條例這個有權解釋機關的看法那國防部也同意這樣的一個看法所以我想應該是已經不是一個單純的基於禮貌的這樣的一個行為好我希望國防部可以對這項這樣子的事件我們的立場要表達夠清楚我想這邊沒有什麼任何理由我們跑到對面對岸去然後在一個真正沒有思想自由的地方說"},{"start":152.085,"end":160.352,"text":"唱了國歌反而你處罰他還叫做思想自由的禁錮我想這是絕大無法接受的事情那我接下來想要跟部長討論我想請政戰局"},{"start":170.068,"end":193.165,"text":"部長跟局長上個會期其實在4月的時候我當時有質詢當然很多委員都關心到國軍心腹人員人力嚴重不足的問題我們看到一位心腹人員需要關照到405位的官兵甚至有心腹證照的人員要照顧2318位的官兵平均下來"},{"start":195.256,"end":223.769,"text":"那現在大家都知道說這個心理的健康其實是國軍戰力非常非常重要的基礎很重要那當時其實我們也建議說要求說應該要培育心腹的專業人才尤其是要藉助民間的力量跟民間的資源那後來政戰局有回覆我確實有回覆我說他們有這個往年有所謂連結民間福島資源的這個計畫我想請問大家經過了半年以後目前就"},{"start":225.43,"end":252.465,"text":"這個我們的國防部目前還有什麼精進的作為這部分是委員好徵案局局長報告就是在這近期我們已經規劃了國軍心理健康照護方案那這個方案原來就是我們鏈結民間心腹資源的部分對那我們呢會這個增加預算來服務照顧我們的官兵那另外增加多少預算"},{"start":253.085,"end":275.602,"text":"我們明明年是編列兩千零一十六萬那另外呢我們也會增設聚症照的心腹人力區分兩年兩個階段來增加44位的心腹人力還有就是我們在軍醫局在今年的七月一號已經將心理健康"},{"start":276.683,"end":300.96,"text":"納入年度體檢裡面所以像我們去執行年度體檢包含我在內都會有一關就是心理健康的一個評估的這個項目來增進我們官兵的心理健康據說我有看到資料包括預算書上面資料看到你們相比於今年然後去年明年的預算的編列好像是今年的10倍是"},{"start":301.48,"end":321.188,"text":"那在這個心理健康上面的預算尤其是這個委辦費上面從一百七十幾萬變成一千七百四十幾萬當然這在你們整個國防部的預算裡面佔的比例還是非常低可是就這個增加的幅度當然我們可以肯定可是我其實是想要問一下局長"},{"start":322.428,"end":345.956,"text":"我手上有一份這個這其實是20應該2022年之前這個監察院的一個調查的報告針對你們陸軍其實一位黃姓中衛的步兵他的上吊自殺的事件的一個調查的報告我不知道你們有沒有看這份調查的報告這上面其實裡面也提到了很多關於我們在新府機制上面的問題包括他其實談到"},{"start":347.99,"end":350.892,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":366.762,"end":369.644,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基"},{"start":382.03,"end":409.464,"text":"這個工作部分很可能就會在工作時間上面被排擠那也提到包括我也看到了我們在審計部之前的報告也提到其實我們在過去五年國軍智商的案件中其實有80%的官兵並沒有在現在的三級防處機制裡面被發現局長你覺得針對這些這都是我們幾個單位出來的報告你們有沒有提出什麼改善的做法"},{"start":410.509,"end":416.036,"text":"是跟委員報告在這個部分就是我們"},{"start":417.301,"end":443.166,"text":"每年在官兵組就是聯保長跟我們的新府官在第一線初級防處的部分我們每年篩略出來需要輔導的個案有兩三千位的個案那這些個案都是經過長期的輔導之後狀況穩定我現在講的事情是說我們審計部的報告裡面說過去智商事件智商事件有80%"},{"start":445.242,"end":471.054,"text":"沒有在我們的三級防處機制裡面發現啊是 這個也是我們需要所以代表我們有防處機制有三級防處機制但是他沒撈到這些人他無法掌握到這些人啊是 我不好意思現在直接說這防處機制是不是失敗也許他在某些部分也扮演了一點角色可是百分之八十這個數字很大啊是 報告委員 這個就是我們國人欠缺主動求助的一個觀念"},{"start":473.295,"end":500.172,"text":"所以你是要怪給國人嗎是我們改進因為這個部分我們也希望能夠盡量去發掘局長跟部長我想表達第一個我們對於尤其在明年的預算裡面你們在新府的資源包括委辦費的這個增加的部分我們當然支持可是看起來不是只是預算增加就可以的事情我覺得這幾份報告裡面我其實全部都詳細讀過了"},{"start":502.233,"end":518.782,"text":"這讀過裏面有很多其實還是有機制性上面的問題我們目前在這些機制上面的問題這不是只有預算的問題機制上面的問題我自己是希望我可以提供這份報告的內容我們可不可以請國防部至少有個我可以給兩個月的時間你們研議一下在這些機制上面"},{"start":519.682,"end":541.469,"text":"能夠有什麼精進的空間包括裡面講到說我們這些表面形式文化變成這些辛苦人員其實已經很少了每天他都在不斷地趕這些形式上面的表單排擠到他們實質上面可以做的協助助人的工作這倒看起來是有很大可以改善的空間是不是可以給兩個月的時間然後有一份報告讓我們知道國防部接下來在這些機制性上的問題"},{"start":542.529,"end":569.193,"text":"要怎麼改善來對應你們的預算的增加不然你們預算即便增加假如實質的部分落實沒辦法做好也還是白搭好不好這部分部長跟局長可以嗎是方委員我們提出精進做法部長可以嗎是我想主要是要怎麼樣子來主動這個發掘這個主動來篩理這個有異常徵喉的這個部分要如何能夠真正的做到"},{"start":569.793,"end":588.236,"text":"那我想他剛剛局長要表達的應該不是在貴賊任何主要是就是在於是說我們應該要將這一些作為要把它要實質啦就是說去掉你剛剛也講到了不要"},{"start":589.017,"end":606.983,"text":"做過多的這個形式的這部分部長上任以後我覺得做了很多這方面的事情我們都可以肯定阿對那我現在也打算我們要增加這個新埔的政照的人員那也要給他們一定的加級然後來主動來因為有涉及到缺乏專業政照這個部分"},{"start":608.343,"end":619.475,"text":"那有關剛剛提到的那些表面的形式文化這個下來之後我想我會跟政財局我們再來好好地研議兩個月的時間好不好給國防部的這邊來檢討謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156757","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156757","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66781e2ac7d8be51440f3fdf6840d68fb6dfd434f0d3d07bbac150fbad783241faa65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:50:32 - 10:58:38","影片長度":"00:08:06","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會（事由：「大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:50:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T10:58:38+08:00","duration":486,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":6.764093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.814093750000001,"end":327.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.16534375000003,"end":483.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.27596875,"end":485.96346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.21,"end":6.029,"text":"下一位 私立大學校院協進會理事長何明果請準備"},{"start":10.851,"end":35.345,"text":"好 謝謝主席那在場各位先進謝謝大家剛剛踴躍提供的意見那我今天的發言有一些也跟大家有一些重複的地方但是我還是要主張我們的聲明來自於非常多學生或者是團體還有專家學者的建議當然也來自這幾年非常多事情的爆發我們認為有非常多事情其實教育部應該更加的積極第一個是關於學校資源分配跟招生政策的問題在今年的"},{"start":38.667,"end":61.525,"text":"業次長上任之後呢我其實第一個問次長的問題就是目前所有科系的偏頗其實來自於整個市場的考量學生因為就職的考量或是市場經濟的考量導致於人文、藝術、社會、學院他們的招生率普遍下降但是教育部在這件事情上如果沒有相對應的作為或者是想像甚至相關的政策其實只會讓音樂、藝術、語言"},{"start":63.867,"end":64.068,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":85.489,"end":101.138,"text":"在我們辦公室其實就有接到陳情是來自於中南部的一所私校大學還不是專科他們有相關的表演藝術系所學校在招生政策會議上就直接決議要他們系所停招但是並沒有請全體的師生表達意見甚至在全體師生知道這個相關決定之後做出抗議"},{"start":105.68,"end":134.047,"text":"校方還是不願意把相關的資訊公開透明而這只是我剛剛說的前提的冰山一角也就是我們基於尊重大學自治自主我們雖然收到相關懲情但我們辦公室並沒有太多的過問可是我們要問教育部難道不該在相關的事務上有所態度有所積極的作為嗎如果只是放任校務會議通過那麼這個細索就會被校方停交也會變成無法挽回的事實但是我們相信在未來的3到5年會有越來越多的"},{"start":134.727,"end":149.148,"text":"我再次強調語言、藝術、人文、社會學系會面臨這個命運如果教育部再一再主張以大學自主就要放任大學這樣處理那我不敢想像未來台灣走在路上的人才是不是有三分之二全部都是從所謂電機、機械"},{"start":151.431,"end":151.811,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":169.718,"end":169.818,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":185.583,"end":207.977,"text":"目前有非常多音樂科系他們的招生人數也一再下降我提出如果教育部可以積極的協助所謂的AI學程甚至有跨校的課程那可不可以積極的去協助相關這些科系他們的課程規劃有更多的想像而不要只有局限在只有音樂跟藝術的發展其實他們有機會往管理學院去走或者是往產業規劃的角度結合他原本的音樂藝術跟語文的部分"},{"start":212.74,"end":213.161,"text":"產學合作及文化委員會"},{"start":227.737,"end":242.172,"text":"教育部當時為了促進產學合作還有人才培育創新在2021年制定了國家重點領域產學合作以及人才培育創新條例協助國立大學可以設立國家重點領域研究學院由政府跨部會組成審議會再由國立大學由校務會議"},{"start":244.734,"end":268.505,"text":"授權設立的監督會：研究學院所設立的管理會：讓產官學還有學生等各界代表共同參與：讓產業可以有序有效參與產學合作及人才培育這個是教育部當時美好的想像跟政策但是我們要問在相關產學合作而提出創新計畫去設立的這些研究學院規劃的期程是8到12年不等"},{"start":269.005,"end":269.145,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":285.41,"end":308.485,"text":"都已經在新聞世界上大家看過我就不再贅述請教育部不要一再的放任後續的事情再來由於創新條例第27條規定研究學院所需的採購除我國締結之條約或協定另有規定者外不適用政府採購法之規定也就是即便研究學院就其動產的採購事項在同條第二項有要求訂定採購作業規定並且應該經過管理會審議通過後再報監督會備查"},{"start":314.008,"end":315.148,"text":"創新條例28條規定,研究學院因為執行第5條事項,得將金管之國有不動產及動產,"},{"start":331.653,"end":339.158,"text":"以出租、設定地上權或無償使用提供給合作企業開發、興建或營運不受國有財產法第28條規定限制但是這也跟國立大學、過去校舍、校地等國有財產使用的狀況不一樣雖然教育部寫的是德"},{"start":350.166,"end":350.206,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":365.063,"end":365.243,"text":"培瑜委員"},{"start":395.406,"end":417.946,"text":"這麼多應該要公佈的事情但是如同我剛剛說的學校決議要停招的事情一旦他們自己校務會議做了決定就沒有辦法再處理所以非常多校務諮詢沒有公開透明這件事情已經是大學常年治理的問題我認為教育部也要積極的面對接下來我要提到前一陣子我跟昭惠范雲委員有協助一個國立大學召開記者會是關於學生住宿的問題"},{"start":418.747,"end":444.586,"text":"其實宿舍的問題也一直是長期以來學校愛怎麼說愛怎麼做說了就算了那完全沒有聽有學生的意見甚至把原本有的預算要整理宿舍這個錢就把它收回來這只是冰山的一角我要講在相關事情之前爆發之前應該有更多的溝通跟資訊公開透明就不會發生類似的事情所以教育部我認為在住宿跟學校設施等硬體規劃上都必須要更多的討論"},{"start":446.047,"end":446.247,"text":"陳培瑜議員陳培瑜"},{"start":469.473,"end":470.274,"text":"陳培瑜委員"}]}},{"id":"156713","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156713","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667862534b9c55f240c856f61c8275d0c8f2c92aae6ac6dc3f81f14af525873e7a105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:21:28 - 09:23:49","影片長度":"00:02:21","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:21:28+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:23:49+08:00","duration":141,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.65096875,"end":6.392843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.74721875,"end":7.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.894718750000001,"end":28.515968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.190968750000003,"end":32.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.46034375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.10534375,"end":40.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.729093750000004,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.01159375,"end":44.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.91846875,"end":47.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.64784375,"end":55.229093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.735343750000006,"end":57.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.962843750000005,"end":58.080968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.62096875,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.641593750000006,"end":63.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.852218750000006,"end":64.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.75909375,"end":66.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.12596875,"end":67.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.05409375,"end":70.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.19721875,"end":72.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.45846875000001,"end":80.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.79471875,"end":81.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.22909375,"end":84.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.74346875,"end":85.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.80659375,"end":87.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.42659375000001,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.79346875,"end":92.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.02909375,"end":93.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.88971875,"end":95.86409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.25221875000001,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.80471875,"end":101.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.93909375000001,"end":106.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.56284375000001,"end":112.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.12721875000001,"end":119.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.18096875,"end":121.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.10471875,"end":123.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.19721875,"end":125.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.46284375,"end":126.59346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.71159375,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.79159375,"end":129.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.75284375,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.96784375000001,"end":133.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.96346875,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.90846875,"end":138.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.94596875000002,"end":141.17346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":28.324,"text":"提出修正那我們看到這個稅法我們財政部老是玩這種把戲啊都是一下子優惠期間就一段時間、一段時間、一段時間那現在的原來的優惠啊是到這個113年12月31日所以今天的會議變成非常的重要我們希望今天啊朝野要有一定的共識讓這個法案順利的往前走可是我要提的是"},{"start":29.484,"end":46.529,"text":"財政部修正的版本是針對地底盤的公車、天然氣的公共汽車、油電符合動力車、電動公共汽車但這個把它延長我覺得我們延了已經時間夠久了"},{"start":48.68,"end":64.269,"text":"他們早就因應就因應了需要這樣子嗎?如果你要這樣子我都主張乾脆一次到位就不要再說什麼一次到到121年12月31日乾脆就是forever否則的話"},{"start":65.816,"end":81.182,"text":"我的提案是把地底盤的公共汽車、天然氣的公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車這些都是比較屬於商業行為的拿掉"},{"start":82.302,"end":106.153,"text":"我們希望延長的只是為了我們的身心障礙者所以我的提案只針對身心障礙者的護光巴士給他再延他的免稅、減稅、免稅這是我的提案跟財政部的一個很大的不同財政部等很長很長後了事實上我們已經延了這麼多次了"},{"start":107.413,"end":129.205,"text":"那應該有的效果都有了啦現在來講的話還在靠這個我們的還要再靠我們的貨物稅降稅啊我覺得在商言商啊其實是沒有必要的我們就是我的焦點就是希望照顧弱勢團體而不是照顧一般的業者好不好請各位指教與支持謝謝好那"},{"start":135.987,"end":140.434,"text":"好 那那個請 那我也不做提案說明了"}]}},{"id":"156712","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156712","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667801ee4754e620a5ee370fa4497fc607c0c92aae6ac6dc3f81c78416d463be3f225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"09:20:09 - 09:22:50","影片長度":"00:02:41","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:20:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:22:50+08:00","duration":161,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.342218750000001,"end":7.337843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.29971875,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.704093750000002,"end":16.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.14221875,"end":35.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.48096875,"end":39.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.05409375,"end":51.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.056593750000005,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.507843750000006,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.40034375,"end":74.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.85471875,"end":80.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.69346875000001,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.12284375,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.92721875000001,"end":101.71971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.05721875,"end":106.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.35596875,"end":152.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.96909375,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.48346875000001,"end":156.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.73221875000002,"end":159.36471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.73,"end":6.912,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":8.582,"end":35.568,"text":"本席代表台灣民眾黨團提案說明建立社會環境及生活條件的提升國內運動人口的增加帶動運動產業的興起運動發展更加的多元化同時選手的表現也提升了我國國際的能見度運動事務在現代社會中扮演的角色越來越重要"},{"start":36.708,"end":65.177,"text":"過去體育署的單一走向的一個政策導致我國體育政策只專注在培養頂尖的國手但在時空背景的改變下運動風氣的增加還有國人對健康要求的不斷提升培養了優秀人才活絡運動產業促進國人對運動的興趣已是重中之重"},{"start":66.685,"end":86.33,"text":"競技運動全民化、全民運動產業化是推動組織整合重要的架構。前者強調運動推廣不能光是追求競技的成就。發展運動精緻它並強調基層運動的普及是重中之重。"},{"start":87.09,"end":94.641,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":96.98,"end":121.705,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 但在現行的架構下體育署的人力預算都非常的有限身為署也很難跟各部會的溝通發展運動產業牽涉到經濟財政及文化的層面所以若能將體育署升格為體育及運動發展部擴充資源注入民間的人才台灣的體育發展才有機會來發展新氣象"},{"start":124.406,"end":146.284,"text":"為了避免弱化決策的成績缺乏跨部會的統籌權力具有策略、政策性質卻常常無常設的法源依據的組織問題藉著提升教育部體育署的位階陳偉行政院所屬中央二級機關方能有效的發揮並處理國際的交流體育的行銷、全民的運動並扶持運動經濟及產業所以提"},{"start":153.03,"end":158.865,"text":"提出本黨的這個草案。敬請各位的支持。謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"156711","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156711","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667857a824eca742b34d370fa4497fc607c0c92aae6ac6dc3f819a2554e42ef972245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"09:18:37 - 09:20:02","影片長度":"00:01:25","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:18:37+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:20:02+08:00","duration":85,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.236593750000001,"end":8.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.957843750000002,"end":44.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.39096875,"end":82.41471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.227,"end":7.607,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一"},{"start":33.272,"end":43.284,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）三．一個鄉鎮的校園的環境,包括跑道、球場都需要體育署來幫忙,那藉由一個升格的機會能夠提供校園更完整的一個資源。」"},{"start":45.441,"end":48.043,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 運動全面均衡發展部組織法草案 運動全面均衡發展"},{"start":68.161,"end":68.662,"text":"產業發展部組織法草案案案 。"}]}},{"id":"156710","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156710","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667864a69b19664c8b3e9fc666e425fd8fe7c92aae6ac6dc3f81468a1eea278b59595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:17:19 - 09:18:55","影片長度":"00:01:36","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:17:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:18:55+08:00","duration":96,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.56596875,"end":24.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.820343750000003,"end":69.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.29846875,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.32346875,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.66721875,"end":95.13846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.929,"end":24.198,"text":"本席針對動物保護法提案第14條之一跟14條之二跟第30條除非是全面禁止我們不受假含金屬材質之彈簧蓄壓式套索陷阱"},{"start":24.918,"end":50.252,"text":"全面禁止,這邊就是俗稱的山豬吊,因為這樣的一個山豬吊物傷動物的事件層出不窮,讓動物承受不必要的痛苦,所以呢在加強管制明文禁止其使用山豬吊,製造販賣陳列持有或廣告交絕輸出路,而且也把網際網路平台都限制山豬吊的瀏覽,"},{"start":51.052,"end":68.774,"text":"提出這樣刪除掉的違法網頁的義務。這個明定在這個14條之一跟14條之二。那對於我們目前現行的動物保護法雖然有禁止售假的使用、製造、販賣或輸出入多年,但就是針對刪除掉"},{"start":70.496,"end":92.12,"text":"這件事情只有用公告禁止使用的行政處分而為了明文立法禁止這個製造販賣陳列廣告教學或輸出路所以為防堵漏洞增列了禁止連持有都不可有這個也是這本席的提案持有刪除掉這個也是這個納入規範內好以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156709","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156709","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678c40b0d276b53438e370fa4497fc607c0c92aae6ac6dc3f819930f9bb5cf0ddfa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"09:15:07 - 09:18:29","影片長度":"00:03:22","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:15:07+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:18:29+08:00","duration":202,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.53659375,"end":181.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.90971875000002,"end":200.55659375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.54,"end":6.381,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":33.916,"end":39.1,"text":"體育的機關顯示成立專責單位負責推廣整個全民的運動、健全運動產業的發展以及培育體育人才等工作當然是刻不容緩。現行將體育運動事務歸列在教育體系他已經沒有辦法對於整個運動發展的現況"},{"start":62.776,"end":85.788,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 所需的推動人力以及資源的部組恐難以有效的來推動整個運動的事務,所以因此應該要提升教育部體育署的位階,成為行政院所屬中央的二級機關單位,才能夠有效的來發揮處理全球體育交流,"},{"start":86.348,"end":86.628,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。」案。"},{"start":107.242,"end":108.383,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":134.938,"end":152.238,"text":"實務列檢任第14等。」這是非常重要。在第4條裡頭本部也特別設置主任秘書。職務列檢任第13職等。這個是在基本的人事方面的一個布局。"},{"start":152.879,"end":153.44,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":168.56,"end":172.382,"text":"聯繫及協調事項 才能夠達成整個在推動聯繫方面能夠更加的有這個位階而且能夠在協調方面更有這個效能。在第9項裡頭也就運動產業"},{"start":184.667,"end":187.829,"text":"運動產業的培植、輔導以及它的發展這項來講對我們整個運動產業跟運動經濟是非常的重要所以我們希望我們好好討論希望能夠如實的在明年度來正式成立謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156708","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156708","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667826da814d1654f6519fc666e425fd8fe7c92aae6ac6dc3f8153e23ddd97f11bf65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"09:14:06 - 09:17:14","影片長度":"00:03:08","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:14:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:17:14+08:00","duration":188,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.7522187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.46409375,"end":13.767218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.543468750000002,"end":95.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.99909375,"end":154.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.28096875,"end":166.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.21159375000002,"end":183.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.98471875,"end":188.23784375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.781,"end":13.465,"text":"有關動物保護法的修法草案,本系有兩個提案。"},{"start":14.605,"end":18.849,"text":"第1條就是動物保護法的第10條有鑒於動物保護的議題已經日成為我們國際社會的普世價值而我們國內的動物的動保的意識提升但是以動物作為交換及贈與的這個經濟行為意識越來越嚴重的在危害這動物的生命權所以台灣"},{"start":37.425,"end":45.428,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":64.196,"end":80.372,"text":"公會造成了這個動物的傷害後續更會衍生這飼養不當及棄養的問題同時會惡意傷害到動物致死的世界是時有所聞的也會引起這個整個社會的公憤所以現行的動物保護法的第10條第三款"},{"start":81.853,"end":93.537,"text":"雖然有明定對動物不得有的行為包含的就是以直接或是間接賭博或是其他不當的目的而有的虐待動物的情勢進行動物的交換或是贈與可是"},{"start":96.898,"end":115.529,"text":"有關遊戲與娛樂難以被歸納成賭博或不當的目的。只要是稽查當下沒有發現有明顯的虐待動物的狀況,往往是難以落實到動物的保護。所以要提案修正條文第10條,無論是否涉及到"},{"start":116.169,"end":119.991,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":131.618,"end":134.459,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":155.33,"end":183.582,"text":"二指這個類似的事情那難以達成動物保護的目的所以有提高刑責罰金的這個必要另外就是有法規規定說定罪前提是以複數動物死亡為要件所以要刪除此前提並徵定暴力或施以其他理念的方式都應該予以重罰以嚇阻虐待動物之行徑一再發生"},{"start":188.029,"end":188.2,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"}]}},{"id":"156706","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156706","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678f9f0d6e4f56c349f370fa4497fc607c0c92aae6ac6dc3f81efa4b89b7a34049c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:11:33 - 09:14:57","影片長度":"00:03:24","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:11:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:14:57+08:00","duration":204,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.0259687500000005,"end":21.090968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.49596875,"end":28.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.42721875,"end":50.487218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.07784375,"end":52.039718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.64721875,"end":70.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.29846875,"end":77.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.52096875000001,"end":78.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.09034375,"end":80.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.85784375,"end":137.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.18659375000001,"end":165.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.41846875000002,"end":185.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.57159375,"end":203.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.30284375000002,"end":204.97784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.069,"end":28.466,"text":"今天晚上十二強正式中華隊要出賽中華隊也是讓我們很值得期待我們也希望是說能夠有獲得好成績所以等一下我在二樓有準備那個驅寒的薑母茶我們希望今天晚上大家都驅寒成功一樣感謝主席的一個排審今天能夠排定運動發展部相關的這個組織條例我覺得非常的"},{"start":29.574,"end":51.192,"text":"行為因為2020年孟楷進入到立法院之後就一直認為我們應該要把運動發展的項目列為國立的重要指標也應該要讓他來升格變成一個部會才能夠真真正正的重視以及帶動整體的產業以及人才培訓國際交流跟永續樂活的發展2024年"},{"start":52.734,"end":81.008,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 三大黨的總統候選人都有一樣的主張跟政策都希望能夠讓運動發展部能夠來成立因此現在這是一個正確的方向這是一個對的道路我們共同坐在這邊要來做相關的討論就是希望趕快讓運動發展部能夠早日落實並且能夠真真正正做到我們期待的一個項目Do the right thing接下來我們要Do the thing right"},{"start":81.892,"end":105.1,"text":"不過幾個部分我想看到我們的教育部以及今天七個部會所提出來的這個報告我覺得首先我要先給予肯定就是當時我在推動運動發展部的時候有四大的核心價值分別是人才培育、國際交流、產業發展、樂活永續恰恰好跟我們這一次報告裡面所提出來的四大目標不謀而合"},{"start":105.925,"end":111.507,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一）行政院函擬具:「運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一．體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．"},{"start":123.831,"end":146.148,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 都應該要做人才的永續培育。第2國際的交流在國際上的運動發展其實他的交流反而會是我們中華民國能夠真的在國際現實上面走出台灣走向世界的重要指標以及產業的發展大家看到運動的產業其實是非常的龐大"},{"start":146.564,"end":149.167,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．"},{"start":166.542,"end":168.284,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":188.046,"end":200.178,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案 共事給納入並且真真正正要求不是只是體育署升格為運動發展部而是真真正正變成是一個全新的部會能夠帶動台灣整體的運動發展以上謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156705","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156705","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667847b69414186d117e75ab657293b96e21c92aae6ac6dc3f81a0cd956ccde8f9615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"09:12:16 - 09:13:50","影片長度":"00:01:34","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:12:16+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:13:50+08:00","duration":94,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.312843750000001,"end":10.915343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.14721875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.57534375,"end":91.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.04596875,"end":93.87284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.02,"end":33.579,"text":"謝謝,這樣一樣我們是針對這個被害人權益現在的這個威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者回復權利的條例的財產及給付對於原本弱勢的經濟人被害者及家屬而言雖然是一時的經濟的協助但是對於原本他生活就處於弱勢能需要國家社會福利制度的資源"},{"start":34.139,"end":55.552,"text":"才可以完整的保障他的經濟基本的生存權所以我大概修法的概念是從第8條以及第17條參酌被害人權益保障法72條第一項有關被害人補償收領權利的體力那增訂賠償金權利不得"},{"start":57.113,"end":59.815,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":81.044,"end":91.478,"text":"現行威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例受領的財產及給付的一個修正的方向。敬請各位可以支持。謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"156716","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156716","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678082c60f1919441a056f61c8275d0c8f2c92aae6ac6dc3f812368db663b262ab65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"09:28:22 - 09:30:23","影片長度":"00:02:01","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:28:22+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:30:23+08:00","duration":121,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":52.984718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.49096875,"end":58.080968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.73909375,"end":61.860968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.282843750000005,"end":70.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.97346875000001,"end":95.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.62784375000001,"end":100.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.84221875,"end":101.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.52971875,"end":108.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.97159375000001,"end":119.25284375000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":16.982,"text":"就是今年起開始推動643億的2030年的客運車量電動化推動計畫除了補助的客運業者購車還納入了維修建置維修保養體系那載客的營運補助還有路網的優化等配套及經費"},{"start":18.163,"end":41.203,"text":"但是過去我國為了無障礙跟環保的目標有針對特定公共汽車免徵貨物稅那今年年底相關的負稅又會到期恐怕會影響淨零碳排的政策所以台灣民眾黨提案修正的貨物稅條例將低底盤公車還有非石化能源公車比如說天然氣、電動車、氫能車、油電混合車都列入免稅"},{"start":46.067,"end":59.987,"text":"免徵貨物稅優惠延長到2030年打造台灣更高品質、更低汙染的公共運輸服務另外,台灣即將進入超高齡社會長照服務的照顧需求日漸增長"},{"start":62.45,"end":88.439,"text":"為了顧及身心障礙者他的舊衣等交通的出行的需求友善無障礙的乘車環境我們也提案延長購買富康巴士免徵貨物稅的期限另外還有近年老舊的遊覽車死傷的事故頻傳我們還有很多上千輛的老舊的大客車不能忽視這些老舊遊覽車的重大安全隱患也希望鼓勵業者負責任能夠加速汰換"},{"start":89.359,"end":108.462,"text":"確保國人的生命安全還有觀光旅遊的品質所以我們提納稅者權利保護依照納稅者權利保護法第6條第1項規定希望增訂貨物稅第7項的規定明定自本條文生效日起實施免徵大客車貨物稅5年的計劃以上"},{"start":110.41,"end":118.804,"text":"好 謝謝 那我們接著請財政部莊部長說明並請部長檢要的那個回應黨團跟委員的提案內容"}]}},{"id":"156715","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156715","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678375477760568ab4956f61c8275d0c8f2c92aae6ac6dc3f81c9b4925af52c8bb35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:26:52 - 09:28:09","影片長度":"00:01:17","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:26:52+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:28:09+08:00","duration":77,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.7565937500000001,"end":66.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.03721875000001,"end":74.92221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.142,"end":28.778,"text":"謝謝主席、各位委員、各位官員本則我本身醫療還有社福的背景所以說明提案要指如下在現今的社會呢縱使我們的醫療科技已經非常的創新且進步但是本席針對偏鄉醫療的照顧仍要面對遠近的考驗這件事情還有許多想法原因是因為這些偏鄉的醫療就醫可進性還有醫療的量能遠遠不及我們的都市環境"},{"start":30.158,"end":52.868,"text":"2025年是我們台灣即將邁入超高齡社會的deadline伴隨高齡化身心障礙長者人數增加的照顧需求政府不只是要跟時間賽跑更要在這個僅存的時間內盡速的改善偏鄉地區交通還有就醫不便的情形透過這次的貨物稅法修法將富康巴士免徵貨物稅"},{"start":54.97,"end":74.731,"text":"齊憲本期希望延長至118年的年底期盼能更縮短偏鄉身障者還有醫療資源的距離持續的建構無障礙友善的環境謝謝好 謝謝那接著我們請那個民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊委員說明提案的要旨"}]}},{"id":"156714","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156714","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66782940f920723cdcd256f61c8275d0c8f2c92aae6ac6dc3f8102603dcc7e4fc98c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"09:24:04 - 09:26:15","影片長度":"00:02:11","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:24:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:26:15+08:00","duration":131,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.14471875,"end":2.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.42284375,"end":4.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.32971875,"end":11.607218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.860343750000002,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.83846875,"end":30.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.304718750000003,"end":35.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":43.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.619093750000005,"end":44.243468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.64846875,"end":60.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.118468750000005,"end":65.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.38346875,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.60659375,"end":77.09909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.02721875,"end":81.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.60471875,"end":91.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.25284375000001,"end":94.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.31159375,"end":110.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.14034375000001,"end":111.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.04721875000001,"end":113.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.12284375,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.45159375,"end":117.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.83534375,"end":120.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.32846875000001,"end":125.80034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.01534375000001,"end":129.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.86721875,"end":131.26784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.449,"end":15.74,"text":"貨物稅條例第12條提案說明有盡於我國已經邁入高齡社會為打造無障礙友善高齡長者乘車環境讓身心障礙行動不便者能夠自立生活"},{"start":18.238,"end":34.067,"text":"您延長購買副鋼巴士及符合載運輪椅使用之車輛免徵貨物稅台灣於2018年及正式踏入高齡社會65歲以上老年人口佔人口比例達14.05%"},{"start":36.508,"end":64.479,"text":"而國發會預估2025年台灣將會成為超高齡社會老齡人口佔總超過20%那我國人口老化速度是全球之最那隨著高齡人口增加對我國社會經濟等方面的影響也會隨之浮現那需要投入更多資源支持老年醫療保健福利那也將會面臨更多高齡者照顧問題"},{"start":66.374,"end":72.136,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷"},{"start":93.165,"end":113.577,"text":"提出修法延長復康巴士及符合載運輪椅使用之車輛免徵貨物稅實施期間另外針對第12條之3修正條文為鼓勵民眾購買電動車減少二氧化碳的排放達成台灣2030年碳排減半2050近年碳排的目標緩延續電動車免徵貨物稅以上說明"},{"start":121.391,"end":130.932,"text":"好 謝謝那我們接著請郭公委員說明提案要旨郭公委員 郭公委員郭公委員不在"}]}},{"id":"156704","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156704","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66781d08c1533e7e35af75ab657293b96e21c92aae6ac6dc3f81e7b941279cec53335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"09:10:38 - 09:12:09","影片長度":"00:01:31","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:10:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:12:09+08:00","duration":91,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.570343750000001,"end":61.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.23221875,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.59971875000001,"end":89.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.73409375,"end":91.96596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.585,"end":27.739,"text":"好謝謝主席還有在座所有的同仁大家早安因為在2022年這個立法通過的威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復的條例是臺灣轉型正義上面非常重要的里程碑那我也非常予以認同那這個裡面其實有寫到說讓受害者可以依據促轉會的撤銷的判決來申請相關財產的返還以及申請賠償"},{"start":31.901,"end":33.322,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":62.321,"end":88.693,"text":"希望說讓他們可以依照原本要讓他給他們賠償的這個意義來來領取這一些賠償那還是可以繼續搭配相關的社福的資源來平復他們過去受到的政治暴力上面的創傷然後也真實的保障他們的生存權不會因為請領賠償金或者是請求恢復產權就受到影響好那這是我以上的立法的建議謝謝"},{"start":90.762,"end":90.783,"text":"好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156703","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156703","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678992a87d2ca4091ec370fa4497fc607c0c92aae6ac6dc3f810241d18e79cd8f1c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"09:09:17 - 09:11:25","影片長度":"00:02:08","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:09:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:11:25+08:00","duration":128,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.68846875,"end":5.0934687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.29596875,"end":55.229093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.87034375,"end":75.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.28909375,"end":77.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.82471875,"end":82.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.14034375,"end":95.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.96534375,"end":105.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.14096875000001,"end":112.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.05971875,"end":118.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.59471875000001,"end":120.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.50159375000001,"end":123.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.21409375,"end":124.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.61034375000001,"end":127.58909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.704,"end":25.079,"text":"好謝謝召委派神喔那我想為解決體育署啊組織編制的量能不足為解決三級機關爭取預算不易的一個問題以及為落實運動教育紮根增進國民健康提升運動專業並推動兒少青壯年以及高齡者的全齡運動者"},{"start":26.3,"end":50.797,"text":"本行擬具體育暨運動發展部組織法草案、體育暨運動發展部全民運動組織法草案以及教育部組織法第二條、第五條、第九條的修正草案等三案欲提升教育部體育組織為皆單獨設部,成為行政院所屬中央二級機關以解決上述我所提到的一個問題。國內若能將體育運動來把它視為教育"},{"start":56.559,"end":82.15,"text":"體系的一環。我想將無法反映國內外運動發展的現況,意味能有效推動國際運動事務的一個情勢。未來我們更希望我們運動部如果成立以後,能夠更加重視電競以及冷門的賽事,相關的選手權益,運動比賽。另外今日一排審本席於第一會期,我第一個提案"},{"start":83.203,"end":112.085,"text":"的一個教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案,培養學生具有思辨和邏輯能力是國家富強之根基,亦是國家教育政策未來的一個方向,哲學是所有科學之母。哲學教育目的在於培養學生具有獨立思考、表達、想像、創造等能力,並將哲學教育從小紮根納入國家教育體制裡,所以我倡議"},{"start":113.286,"end":123.787,"text":"責學教育從小學開始學習思辨邏輯能力今天都一起排審也非常感謝有這個機會我們一起為孩子來努力謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156718","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156718","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678532aba18f6fc0c563fdf6840d68fb6dfc92aae6ac6dc3f81e877a6cfc589171d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"09:32:43 - 09:37:49","影片長度":"00:05:06","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會（事由：「大學亂象、產學合作與高教治理總檢討」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:32:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:37:49+08:00","duration":306,"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.46096875,"end":3.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.709093750000001,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.211593750000006,"end":85.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.19471875,"end":122.79659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.82596875,"end":154.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.48346875000001,"end":197.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.04221875000002,"end":199.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.77596875,"end":215.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.68909375,"end":219.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.60846875000001,"end":231.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.55596875,"end":232.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.99034375000002,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.05784375000002,"end":239.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.28034375000001,"end":249.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.98346875000001,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.82721875000001,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.42909375,"end":260.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.44346875,"end":282.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.97409375,"end":292.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.91346875,"end":296.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.04784375,"end":297.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.41909375,"end":299.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.64659375,"end":303.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.59534375000004,"end":305.67096875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.129,"end":1.273,"text":"委員：張雅琳委員發言"},{"start":7.748,"end":33.447,"text":"主席好,然後在場的各位先進大家好我是立法委員張雅琳那在今年4月我剛上任的時候呢其實我有說到臺北大學的學生會來陳情就是關於就是學校突然要裝修男醫女醫這兩個宿舍可是卻無意無預警地強制學生要搬離雖然說有召開相關的會議但是校長卻是關掉了學生代表學生會長的發言那我想這裡就是我們在討論這個大學自治的時候其實"},{"start":34.087,"end":34.327,"text":"張雅琳議員張雅琳議員"},{"start":59.264,"end":84.819,"text":"第一個就是有關於委員會討論將學生的代表比例從十分之一變成五分之一這個變化是為了要落實校園的民主增進學生的自治權讓學生可以更積極的來參與學校的事務但是呢也有校方擔心說學生比例的提高可能會壓縮到其他成員的比例也有可能會造成校務治理的一個失衡所以從校方的觀點來看確保決策專業性和效率還是非常重要的"},{"start":86.263,"end":106.914,"text":"所以到底是十分之一還是五分之一呢我覺得這個大家可以一起來討論因為後面還有其他東西可能會影響到這個比例第二個部分就是說在學生權利的保障上面根據大學法第33條學生享有參與校務會議的權利並且可以組織學生自治性的社團來進行自主的運作那這裡面就涵蓋了言論自由、選舉權、被選舉權跟申訴權"},{"start":109.816,"end":121.949,"text":"這一個最主要是希望上屆草案是希望可以去完善申訴的機制確保學生有遭遇不公平的對待的時候有一個正當的申訴管道來確保他的權益這是一項進步"},{"start":124.151,"end":149.363,"text":"這部分我覺得也是希望可以繼續來延續第三個部分是在草案中還有一個爭議條文就是將大學法裡面的輔導對學生自治社團組織的輔導變成是協助從輔導到協助看起來好像只是文字上的變化可是這兩個的意涵其實差異非常大輔導代表的是大學必須要積極的引導跟支持"},{"start":150.263,"end":151.044,"text":"學生代表的選舉"},{"start":169.478,"end":196.863,"text":"選國大專院校學生會概況調查報告其實在2021年也有提到學生參與各項會議的意願其實是跟2019年來比是降低的那像他們當時裡面就有提到說參與各項會議是一定會出席的人只有39.5%大多會出席的只有43.4%所以這影片就會變成說當學生參與的度不高的時候他今天選出來的代表性"},{"start":198.106,"end":198.166,"text":"張雅琳議員"},{"start":217.081,"end":239.515,"text":"為什麼今天學生不參與學生不參與學校的公共事務的討論因為我想基於過去我自己在民間在講的就是兒童參與權讓兒童從小開始積極的參與公共事務那其實我們也會我就會很想要來了解說今天到底學生不參與是因為他覺得他參與的時候沒有"},{"start":240.316,"end":240.356,"text":"張雅琳議員"},{"start":251.81,"end":275.845,"text":"提案權可能實質上是沒有辦法產生任何的效果所以就一步一步的減緩了學生參與公共事務的機會跟意願所以我這個會認為就是說也許我們教育部也可以來做一些詳盡的了解就是說為什麼今天學生不參與了也許解決這個問題我們才有可能再來進一步的去討論說到底這個自治的比例"},{"start":278.705,"end":305.09,"text":"這個參與的比例到底要調到多少可能會比較恰當那我相信只要我們有相關的一些配套措施那其實重點都還是希望說讓學生可以在大學求學的過程之中學習我們最重要的一個精神嘛民主社會的這些精神這樣子所以也可以讓學生在過程之中體驗更多的自治的機會所以這是我今天的發言 謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156707","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156707","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678e3ec0b13d7c0939e9fc666e425fd8fe7c92aae6ac6dc3f81091ed520d06e93fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"09:07:53 - 09:13:58","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:07:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:13:58+08:00","duration":365,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.15284375,"end":8.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.04909375,"end":160.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.95096875000002,"end":297.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.65096875,"end":359.09721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.08,"end":4.186,"text":"真材委員請徐曉欣委員提案說明。"},{"start":26.3,"end":47.771,"text":"首先是為了要針對這個進一步深化動物保護還有尊重生命的這個概念並且我們希望能夠跟國際動物保護的標準來接軌所以提出了動保法的部分條文進行修正那主要的目的是希望加強對動物的保護填補現行法制當中的不足"},{"start":49.693,"end":62.79,"text":"不僅是對生存的動物的保護也應該要延伸到生命週期的每一個階段所以在我們提案修正的部分在第三條裡面我們過去現行的條文不管是動物、經濟動物、實驗動物或寵物提到的都是"},{"start":66.755,"end":94.715,"text":"因各種經濟目的而飼養或管領之動物但是並沒有談到繁殖這個部分所以在繁殖的部分我們也希望能夠一起納入管理再來是第10條的部分關於對於動物不得有以下的行為在現行的法條裡面在第10條的第三款這裡他寫到說以直接間接賭博或不當目的有虐待動物的相關情勢"},{"start":96.036,"end":113.753,"text":"可是我們知道現在在我們的動物保護的部分尤其關於民眾的期待他並不是只是虐待動物那或者是進行動物交換或贈與還包含娛樂遊戲營業或宣傳其實到現在也有一些新興的產業他透過動物的"},{"start":116.676,"end":118.597,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":131.864,"end":159.941,"text":"當然如果是一般民眾的文化休閒比如說釣魚的話那這個我想不在所謂的這個娛樂遊戲營業宣傳當中那主要它還是這個包含比較不當的目的進行動物的交換或是贈與喔那但是呢像很多一些比如說撈魚的遊戲啊等等這一類的我們都希望在這個法令上面能夠有進一步的這個修正再來呢"},{"start":161.002,"end":180.192,"text":"第12條的部分關於因科學目的的這個相關宰殺我們可以看到原本是只有因科學應用目的那我們也希望說科學應用目的之外有實驗動物照護或是委員經小組審查的同意那為我們的實驗動物也能夠多一層的保護"},{"start":183.894,"end":186.897,"text":"關於實驗動物的部分我們在未來因為包含開過幾次公聽會那各方的討論之後也預計會有新的修正動議希望能夠在我們的實驗科學上面跟動物保護上面能夠找出一個平衡點"},{"start":201.834,"end":202.595,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":217.816,"end":241.33,"text":"其實其實都有很多在捕獵的時候產生那讓很多的動物產生斷腳跟斷手的這個狀況那其實對他們的生命來說是一種折磨那像先前才有新聞剛報導過就是有我們在山中的動物也是踩到了這個金屬材質的彈簧蓄壓式套索陷阱那就斷了一隻腳這樣子的問題其實一直都是有在出現的"},{"start":247.153,"end":261.431,"text":"所以我們希望呢這個可以能夠來處理那14條之二的部分是把金屬材質的彈簧蓄壓式套壓陷阱這個部分呢包含是如果這個所謂的陷阱他是不符合我們主管機關規定的"},{"start":262.813,"end":265.035,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":282.751,"end":297.536,"text":"可我們只要在網路包含蝦皮上面都還是能夠買到便宜而且對於動物具備殺傷性的這些套索所以我們也希望在第15條之一能夠再行的一些有一些新的"},{"start":299.281,"end":316.58,"text":"法律上能夠來修正。第16條的部分關於實驗動物我們會再提出修正動議就像我剛剛提到的希望能夠符合我們的科學研究以及包含我們的動物保護"},{"start":317.701,"end":338.608,"text":"所以我們希望全面禁止這些金屬材質的彈簧套所陷阱也禁止相關工具的製造販售持有針對特定寵物的繁殖買賣也需要來自合法的來源並且要進行晶片的植入跟登記有助於追蹤寵物的來源也能減少偷渡跟非法繁殖的問題"},{"start":339.989,"end":357.73,"text":"這次的修法除了深化我國的動物保護概念也是希望能夠跟世界接軌將現行過於簡略以及有疏漏的動保法能夠更加的縝密為動物創造更加友善的尊嚴的生活環境也希望院板能夠儘速的提出以討論感謝"}]}},{"id":"16253","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16253","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e161a8535b05d3ed39b5fa2f296a93534edb79b8bfb08e79953ed0b15cac02ce85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:29:59+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:50:00+08:00","duration":19201,"影片長度":"05:20:01","委員發言時間":"08:29:59 - 13:50:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":286.95659375,"end":288.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":291.58034375,"end":292.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1954.5778437500003,"end":1955.2865937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1963.5553437500002,"end":1964.6522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1965.00659375,"end":1965.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1970.0353437500003,"end":1970.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1970.9634687500002,"end":1971.6890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1972.0603437500001,"end":1976.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1976.0597187500002,"end":1976.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1976.4309687500001,"end":1976.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1976.5659687500001,"end":1976.6165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1976.97096875,"end":1977.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1977.9665937500001,"end":1978.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1978.0172187500002,"end":1978.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1978.1522187500002,"end":1978.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1978.3378437500003,"end":1978.4222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1985.0540937500002,"end":1993.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1994.2340937500003,"end":2035.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2036.03346875,"end":2036.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2037.9234687500002,"end":2048.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2049.8709687500004,"end":2178.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2178.81284375,"end":2207.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2208.36096875,"end":2212.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2213.9128437500003,"end":2231.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2232.50909375,"end":2237.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2237.68971875,"end":2247.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2248.3209687500002,"end":2248.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2250.48096875,"end":2250.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2251.39221875,"end":2253.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2253.60284375,"end":2255.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2255.96534375,"end":2256.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2256.5897187500004,"end":2257.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2257.6190937500005,"end":2258.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2258.96909375,"end":2259.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2259.20534375,"end":2259.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2260.4540937500005,"end":2272.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2277.9197187500004,"end":2283.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2283.43784375,"end":2283.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2283.48846875,"end":2283.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2284.5009687500005,"end":2285.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2285.85096875,"end":2287.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2288.5340937500005,"end":2289.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2289.9684687500003,"end":2290.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2291.70659375,"end":2294.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2297.59596875,"end":2299.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2299.9753437500003,"end":2302.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2301.20721875,"end":2304.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2303.7722187500003,"end":2304.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2305.72971875,"end":2306.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2306.5397187500002,"end":2310.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2310.3534687500005,"end":2313.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2312.5809687500005,"end":2315.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2317.9472187500005,"end":2320.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2322.43596875,"end":2322.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2323.7184687500003,"end":2324.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2325.1190937500005,"end":2327.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2327.98784375,"end":2328.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2328.0047187500004,"end":2328.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2328.03846875,"end":2330.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2331.1434687500005,"end":2338.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2339.4628437500005,"end":2339.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2339.6990937500004,"end":2340.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2339.8172187500004,"end":2340.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2340.27284375,"end":2340.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2340.74534375,"end":2348.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2344.62659375,"end":2345.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2348.8622187500005,"end":2350.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2350.1784687500003,"end":2355.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2352.13596875,"end":2362.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2362.34534375,"end":2362.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2362.98659375,"end":2363.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":2363.17221875,"end":2363.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2366.29409375,"end":2380.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2379.6084687500006,"end":2381.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2381.4140937500006,"end":2381.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2381.97096875,"end":2385.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2383.25346875,"end":2383.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2384.73846875,"end":2393.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2393.80034375,"end":2399.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2399.4197187500004,"end":2399.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2399.82471875,"end":2400.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2400.78659375,"end":2407.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2408.1609687500004,"end":2409.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2409.34221875,"end":2409.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2409.7303437500004,"end":2409.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2409.7978437500005,"end":2433.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2433.9122187500006,"end":2436.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2436.59534375,"end":2459.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2460.0515937500004,"end":2461.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2462.14409375,"end":2480.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2481.46596875,"end":2481.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2482.73159375,"end":2483.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2484.41909375,"end":2488.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2490.4772187500002,"end":2492.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2493.7509687500005,"end":2494.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2494.54409375,"end":2502.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2511.80721875,"end":2513.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2513.78159375,"end":2556.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2557.3865937500004,"end":2557.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2558.3990937500002,"end":2566.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":2566.8365937500002,"end":2567.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2571.76409375,"end":2579.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2583.9647187500004,"end":2586.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2588.6053437500004,"end":2589.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2591.4909687500003,"end":2592.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2594.2078437500004,"end":2595.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2597.44784375,"end":2598.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2600.6540937500004,"end":2608.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2610.7959687500006,"end":2612.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2614.9472187500005,"end":2616.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2619.0984687500004,"end":2621.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2623.82346875,"end":2625.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2627.2322187500004,"end":2629.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2630.8097187500007,"end":2632.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2634.1172187500006,"end":2635.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2635.93971875,"end":2636.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2638.3190937500003,"end":2640.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2640.81659375,"end":2643.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2644.3097187500007,"end":2646.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2647.02659375,"end":2648.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2649.4228437500005,"end":2651.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2652.39284375,"end":2654.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2655.78471875,"end":2658.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2660.9147187500002,"end":2663.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2664.9140937500006,"end":2667.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2668.96409375,"end":2676.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2677.7390937500004,"end":2681.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2681.4853437500005,"end":2683.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2685.7715937500006,"end":2689.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2691.22221875,"end":2693.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2695.3903437500003,"end":2697.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2701.70159375,"end":2706.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2708.99159375,"end":2709.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2712.24846875,"end":2715.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2718.0534687500003,"end":2720.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2722.4747187500006,"end":2728.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2730.62534375,"end":2733.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2736.36284375,"end":2737.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2739.41721875,"end":2740.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2741.4422187500004,"end":2743.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2745.01971875,"end":2746.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2748.59721875,"end":2755.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2758.58721875,"end":2761.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2763.34596875,"end":2764.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2767.58159375,"end":2771.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2774.0447187500004,"end":2775.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2778.2803437500006,"end":2779.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2781.8409687500007,"end":2785.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2788.01721875,"end":2792.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2794.63221875,"end":2796.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2798.26034375,"end":2800.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2803.23846875,"end":2805.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2807.6259687500005,"end":2808.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2810.7647187500006,"end":2814.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2816.0128437500007,"end":2816.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2819.4384687500005,"end":2824.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2825.8678437500002,"end":2827.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2830.55909375,"end":2836.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2837.78159375,"end":2839.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2841.9834687500006,"end":2844.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2848.86846875,"end":2854.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2857.2215937500005,"end":2858.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2861.0184687500005,"end":2865.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2868.0215937500006,"end":2870.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2871.1940937500003,"end":2873.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2876.61096875,"end":2881.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2884.2215937500005,"end":2887.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2890.58346875,"end":2894.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2896.84409375,"end":2901.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2903.47596875,"end":2907.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2909.21346875,"end":2910.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2911.2722187500003,"end":2915.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2916.7734687500006,"end":2924.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2927.26971875,"end":2928.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2930.71221875,"end":2932.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2933.68221875,"end":2935.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2936.63534375,"end":2938.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2938.9472187500005,"end":2939.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2939.0653437500005,"end":2941.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2943.5878437500005,"end":2945.9503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2945.9503437500007,"end":2947.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2947.3678437500002,"end":2951.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2955.8728437500004,"end":2967.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2967.7022187500006,"end":2983.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2983.88534375,"end":2994.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2995.4615937500002,"end":3004.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3005.19846875,"end":3028.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3029.2959687500006,"end":3030.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3031.54034375,"end":3035.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3035.9278437500006,"end":3039.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3040.1972187500005,"end":3052.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3053.19096875,"end":3058.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3058.7428437500002,"end":3066.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3069.9647187500004,"end":3074.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3078.3515937500006,"end":3081.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3081.6590937500005,"end":3086.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3086.9747187500006,"end":3087.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3087.05909375,"end":3088.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3088.6622187500006,"end":3093.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3093.80909375,"end":3094.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3094.95659375,"end":3115.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3116.2528437500005,"end":3119.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3120.5222187500003,"end":3123.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3124.1334687500002,"end":3127.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3128.7909687500005,"end":3128.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3130.0565937500005,"end":3131.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3131.96346875,"end":3134.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3135.69284375,"end":3142.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3142.7803437500006,"end":3144.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3145.0078437500006,"end":3145.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3145.6659687500005,"end":3148.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3148.6865937500006,"end":3150.2559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3150.9140937500006,"end":3151.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3152.80409375,"end":3153.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3154.1709687500006,"end":3154.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3155.09909375,"end":3159.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3159.50346875,"end":3167.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3167.87346875,"end":3168.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3169.2909687500005,"end":3171.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3171.8053437500002,"end":3172.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3172.86846875,"end":3174.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3174.48846875,"end":3175.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3175.8553437500004,"end":3179.6690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3180.0909687500007,"end":3180.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3180.95159375,"end":3182.9259687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3183.31409375,"end":3184.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3184.86659375,"end":3190.8572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3190.9753437500003,"end":3193.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3193.60784375,"end":3199.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3200.17221875,"end":3204.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3204.6103437500005,"end":3206.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3207.22596875,"end":3208.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3209.14971875,"end":3210.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3211.25909375,"end":3212.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3212.54159375,"end":3213.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3213.7565937500003,"end":3214.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3214.8365937500002,"end":3216.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3219.71346875,"end":3221.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3220.6922187500004,"end":3220.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3220.7428437500002,"end":3220.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3220.79346875,"end":3221.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3221.3672187500006,"end":3222.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3222.97034375,"end":3224.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3224.70846875,"end":3225.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3226.02471875,"end":3233.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3241.16159375,"end":3242.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3243.08534375,"end":3243.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3244.3340937500006,"end":3245.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3246.6290937500007,"end":3247.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3248.5359687500004,"end":3252.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3252.78846875,"end":3254.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3255.1172187500006,"end":3259.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3260.0447187500004,"end":3262.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3262.42409375,"end":3273.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3273.57846875,"end":3279.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3279.6534687500007,"end":3286.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3286.8253437500007,"end":3287.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3287.87159375,"end":3303.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3304.3415937500004,"end":3308.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3309.5897187500004,"end":3312.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3312.8465937500005,"end":3320.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3321.25034375,"end":3324.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3324.8278437500003,"end":3335.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3335.4590937500006,"end":3337.2647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3337.51784375,"end":3355.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3355.2703437500004,"end":3357.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3357.34596875,"end":3358.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3359.6747187500005,"end":3360.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3361.0584687500004,"end":3363.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3364.5684687500006,"end":3369.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3370.25534375,"end":3372.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3373.09034375,"end":3376.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3376.8534687500005,"end":3377.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3379.41846875,"end":3385.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3385.81409375,"end":3389.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3389.72909375,"end":3392.6990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3393.2897187500002,"end":3399.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3411.1434687500005,"end":3474.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3474.9647187500004,"end":3476.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3478.42409375,"end":3485.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3494.40471875,"end":3554.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3554.96909375,"end":3559.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3560.21721875,"end":3563.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3563.76096875,"end":3596.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3597.0553437500002,"end":3601.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3602.33721875,"end":3603.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3604.0078437500006,"end":3610.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3611.44971875,"end":3620.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3628.25721875,"end":3643.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3643.5290937500004,"end":3689.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3689.73284375,"end":3721.7784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3722.82471875,"end":3822.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3823.11284375,"end":3835.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3836.37659375,"end":3882.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3882.4959687500004,"end":3909.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3909.8672187500006,"end":3948.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3949.37159375,"end":3967.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3969.01409375,"end":4043.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4043.50034375,"end":4096.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4096.31909375,"end":4096.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4096.639718750001,"end":4096.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4096.65659375,"end":4097.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4097.92221875,"end":4103.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4104.503468749999,"end":4114.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4116.90659375,"end":4119.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4119.91034375,"end":4128.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4131.62159375,"end":4132.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4143.130343750001,"end":4144.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4144.88534375,"end":4147.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4147.46721875,"end":4148.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4153.32284375,"end":4157.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4157.45721875,"end":4169.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4169.72534375,"end":4184.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4184.760968750001,"end":4191.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4192.74284375,"end":4198.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4198.952843749999,"end":4201.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4202.749718749999,"end":4227.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4227.606593750001,"end":4234.862843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4234.862843749999,"end":4277.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4277.387843750001,"end":4299.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4300.52346875,"end":4302.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4302.919718749999,"end":4338.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4335.43784375,"end":4336.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4338.39096875,"end":4352.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4352.987843749999,"end":4357.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4358.100968750001,"end":4358.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4358.522843750001,"end":4359.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4359.045968750001,"end":4359.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4359.9403437500005,"end":4363.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4363.28159375,"end":4364.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4365.036593750001,"end":4366.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4366.89284375,"end":4369.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4370.419718749999,"end":4370.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4372.00596875,"end":4383.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4385.100968750001,"end":4393.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4393.8759687500005,"end":4412.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4412.235968749999,"end":4423.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4423.3397187499995,"end":4447.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4447.89284375,"end":4448.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4448.58471875,"end":4452.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4452.5165937500005,"end":4467.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4467.737843749999,"end":4477.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4478.0653437500005,"end":4490.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4490.68784375,"end":4499.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4499.83409375,"end":4500.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4500.9647187499995,"end":4501.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4501.75784375,"end":4507.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4508.11971875,"end":4508.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4508.1365937499995,"end":4537.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4538.106593750001,"end":4538.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4538.764718750001,"end":4568.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4568.26221875,"end":4568.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4568.279093749999,"end":4578.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4578.33659375,"end":4606.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4605.62346875,"end":4608.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4609.84221875,"end":4612.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4612.74471875,"end":4656.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4656.90659375,"end":4658.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4659.606593750001,"end":4663.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4664.31471875,"end":4703.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4675.18221875,"end":4675.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4675.2665937500005,"end":4675.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4675.99221875,"end":4676.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4676.279093749999,"end":4676.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4676.41409375,"end":4676.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":4676.65034375,"end":4676.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4703.21159375,"end":4716.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4717.302218750001,"end":4730.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4730.59971875,"end":4756.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4757.093468749999,"end":4759.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4759.962218750001,"end":4761.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4761.649718750001,"end":4782.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4782.372218750001,"end":4794.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4795.585343750001,"end":4827.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4827.81659375,"end":4829.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4830.314093749999,"end":4834.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4834.88721875,"end":4838.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4839.122843749999,"end":4840.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4840.28721875,"end":4840.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4840.94534375,"end":4842.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4842.278468750001,"end":4842.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4843.544093750001,"end":4846.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4854.81659375,"end":4856.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4856.655968749999,"end":4856.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4857.128468750001,"end":4857.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4862.20784375,"end":4862.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4862.22471875,"end":4863.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4863.05159375,"end":4864.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4864.485968749999,"end":4866.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4867.540343750001,"end":4870.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4871.69159375,"end":4872.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4872.95721875,"end":4873.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4874.526593750001,"end":4878.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4880.02784375,"end":4880.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4881.647843750001,"end":4884.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4885.394093750001,"end":4888.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4889.663468750001,"end":4891.064093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4891.78971875,"end":4916.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4901.50971875,"end":4903.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4903.028468750001,"end":4903.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4903.41659375,"end":4903.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4917.405968749999,"end":4919.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4919.73471875,"end":4920.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4921.810343749999,"end":4922.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4922.890343749999,"end":4924.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4924.93221875,"end":4928.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4928.897843750001,"end":4929.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4930.4334687499995,"end":4933.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4933.36971875,"end":4933.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4933.825343750001,"end":4933.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4933.97721875,"end":4935.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4935.462218750001,"end":4935.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4935.47909375,"end":4949.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4940.06909375,"end":4940.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4943.747843749999,"end":4945.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4949.50221875,"end":4950.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4951.4090937500005,"end":4953.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4954.7840937500005,"end":4957.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4958.108468750001,"end":4959.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4961.07846875,"end":4961.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4962.44534375,"end":4963.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4964.335343750001,"end":4965.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4966.84971875,"end":4971.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4972.215968750001,"end":4973.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4974.274718750001,"end":4975.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4976.58659375,"end":4978.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4978.780343750001,"end":4980.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4980.53534375,"end":4980.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4981.14284375,"end":4981.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4981.9697187500005,"end":4994.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4983.5897187499995,"end":4983.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4983.977843750001,"end":4985.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4985.41221875,"end":4985.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4992.280343750001,"end":4992.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4993.731593750001,"end":5002.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5003.012843750001,"end":5004.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5005.03784375,"end":5006.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5006.809718750001,"end":5010.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5011.7372187500005,"end":5012.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5013.0028437500005,"end":5014.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5015.095343749999,"end":5016.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5016.9853437500005,"end":5019.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5019.7528437500005,"end":5020.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5021.811593750001,"end":5022.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5023.43159375,"end":5027.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5028.173468749999,"end":5028.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5029.590968750001,"end":5034.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5035.817843750001,"end":5035.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5035.83471875,"end":5035.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5035.85159375,"end":5035.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5035.919093750001,"end":5040.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5036.847218750001,"end":5037.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5039.39534375,"end":5043.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5043.968468749999,"end":5045.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5045.655968749999,"end":5046.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5047.27596875,"end":5050.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5050.88721875,"end":5070.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5071.6434687500005,"end":5071.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5071.66034375,"end":5083.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5079.6590937500005,"end":5086.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5087.40471875,"end":5087.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5088.366593750001,"end":5092.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5092.93971875,"end":5093.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5093.12534375,"end":5094.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5095.47096875,"end":5097.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5098.069718750001,"end":5098.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5099.79096875,"end":5100.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5101.157843749999,"end":5104.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5105.1572187500005,"end":5105.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5106.692843750001,"end":5107.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5108.0428437499995,"end":5108.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5109.24096875,"end":5111.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5112.2615937499995,"end":5119.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5120.22659375,"end":5122.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5123.17971875,"end":5123.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5124.71534375,"end":5129.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5130.43596875,"end":5137.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5139.24471875,"end":5145.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5146.12971875,"end":5152.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5153.571593750001,"end":5169.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5169.16409375,"end":5172.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5172.53909375,"end":5173.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5174.057843750001,"end":5175.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5176.65659375,"end":5177.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5178.462218750001,"end":5179.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5179.84596875,"end":5181.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5181.887843750001,"end":5186.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5186.96721875,"end":5191.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5191.590968750001,"end":5197.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5198.7459687499995,"end":5201.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5201.96909375,"end":5204.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5205.462218750001,"end":5206.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5207.419718749999,"end":5208.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5209.765343749999,"end":5210.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5211.452843749999,"end":5212.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5212.7353437500005,"end":5214.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5214.7772187499995,"end":5216.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5217.3084687499995,"end":5222.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5222.944718750001,"end":5226.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5227.0790937500005,"end":5230.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5233.23846875,"end":5235.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5233.98096875,"end":5235.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5236.309718750001,"end":5236.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5236.765343749999,"end":5241.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5241.91221875,"end":5244.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5244.52784375,"end":5246.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5248.05471875,"end":5248.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5249.59034375,"end":5250.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5250.90659375,"end":5251.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5251.1259687500005,"end":5252.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5252.69534375,"end":5260.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5260.84596875,"end":5262.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5263.14096875,"end":5264.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5264.49096875,"end":5265.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5265.925343750001,"end":5266.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5266.060343749999,"end":5267.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5268.4228437500005,"end":5275.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5276.21909375,"end":5303.421593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5285.97284375,"end":5286.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5303.472218750001,"end":5304.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5304.99096875,"end":5310.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5311.33596875,"end":5318.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5318.1365937499995,"end":5320.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5321.005343750001,"end":5327.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5325.747218750001,"end":5336.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5328.464093750001,"end":5329.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5336.749718749999,"end":5348.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5348.44409375,"end":5350.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5350.60409375,"end":5352.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5352.7978437500005,"end":5355.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5355.34596875,"end":5360.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5360.64471875,"end":5361.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5361.640343749999,"end":5372.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5372.760968750001,"end":5378.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5379.122843749999,"end":5380.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5381.468468749999,"end":5382.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5383.392218749999,"end":5384.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5385.180968750001,"end":5387.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5388.0497187500005,"end":5389.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5389.686593750001,"end":5390.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5392.116593750001,"end":5394.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5394.05721875,"end":5396.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5396.82471875,"end":5399.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5400.0478437500005,"end":5401.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5402.190968750001,"end":5403.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5404.5028437500005,"end":5407.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5408.63721875,"end":5414.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5415.032843749999,"end":5415.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5416.12971875,"end":5416.720343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5416.88909375,"end":5421.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5422.55909375,"end":5423.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5425.84971875,"end":5432.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5431.536593750001,"end":5439.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5439.737843750001,"end":5441.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5441.762843750001,"end":5445.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5446.92659375,"end":5447.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5447.83784375,"end":5452.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5454.317843750001,"end":5455.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5455.718468749999,"end":5457.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5457.7772187499995,"end":5459.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5459.86971875,"end":5460.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5460.460343750001,"end":5468.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5469.319718750001,"end":5472.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5472.89721875,"end":5475.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5477.55471875,"end":5481.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5481.925343750001,"end":5496.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5498.142218749999,"end":5498.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5499.20534375,"end":5500.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5500.251593749999,"end":5500.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5500.8759687500005,"end":5502.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5502.934718750001,"end":5504.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5504.9090937500005,"end":5505.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5505.179093750001,"end":5505.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5505.685343749999,"end":5506.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5506.967843750001,"end":5509.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5509.61721875,"end":5510.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5511.608468750001,"end":5513.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5514.325343750001,"end":5515.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5516.68784375,"end":5520.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5517.9872187500005,"end":5518.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5532.280343750001,"end":5534.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5534.575343750001,"end":5535.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5540.44784375,"end":5543.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5543.77221875,"end":5553.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5553.71159375,"end":5556.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5556.90096875,"end":5557.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5559.499718749999,"end":5565.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5564.03909375,"end":5575.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5572.155968749999,"end":5572.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5576.239718750001,"end":5581.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5578.770968750001,"end":5580.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5581.217843750001,"end":5581.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5581.36971875,"end":5593.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5594.22846875,"end":5594.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5594.245343750001,"end":5606.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5602.75034375,"end":5611.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5606.36159375,"end":5606.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5608.909718750001,"end":5609.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5611.170968750001,"end":5615.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5613.63471875,"end":5617.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5617.36409375,"end":5626.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5620.04721875,"end":5622.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5624.890343749999,"end":5631.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5631.032843749999,"end":5631.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5632.09596875,"end":5634.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5634.89721875,"end":5637.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5637.68159375,"end":5638.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5639.149718750001,"end":5653.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5654.607218749999,"end":5665.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5663.97284375,"end":5677.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5679.6834687499995,"end":5682.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5683.1259687500005,"end":5685.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5685.134093750001,"end":5685.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5685.28596875,"end":5686.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5686.33221875,"end":5687.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5687.429093750001,"end":5690.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5690.60159375,"end":5700.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5700.878468750001,"end":5721.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5721.702218750001,"end":5725.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5725.9715937500005,"end":5727.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5728.1990937499995,"end":5730.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5731.439093749999,"end":5741.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5742.99846875,"end":5755.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5751.53721875,"end":5751.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5752.920968750001,"end":5766.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5766.505343750001,"end":5766.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5767.264718750001,"end":5810.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5810.380343750001,"end":5811.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5811.05534375,"end":5811.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5811.52784375,"end":5811.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5811.57846875,"end":5811.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5811.62909375,"end":5814.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5813.8397187499995,"end":5814.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5814.58221875,"end":5846.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5820.43784375,"end":5820.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5821.163468750001,"end":5821.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5821.55159375,"end":5821.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5823.86346875,"end":5824.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5824.0322187500005,"end":5824.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5824.3865937499995,"end":5824.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5825.63534375,"end":5825.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5837.97096875,"end":5838.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5838.038468750001,"end":5838.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5840.31659375,"end":5840.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5841.7509687500005,"end":5842.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5845.9022187499995,"end":5872.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5866.202843749999,"end":5867.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5869.51034375,"end":5869.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5871.653468750001,"end":5876.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5876.49659375,"end":5905.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5905.437218749999,"end":5906.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5907.647843750001,"end":5908.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5909.58846875,"end":5910.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5911.495343750001,"end":5912.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5911.731593750001,"end":5911.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5912.96346875,"end":5919.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5914.634093750001,"end":5915.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5916.979718750001,"end":5918.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5918.802218750001,"end":5934.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5935.170968750001,"end":5937.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5938.495343750001,"end":5939.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5939.59221875,"end":5964.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5966.288468750001,"end":6003.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6003.649718750001,"end":6004.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6004.5272187499995,"end":6007.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6008.08784375,"end":6016.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6016.964093750001,"end":6043.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6025.94159375,"end":6026.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6027.10596875,"end":6030.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6037.70346875,"end":6041.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6042.327218750001,"end":6046.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6045.39846875,"end":6051.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6047.895968750001,"end":6048.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6049.499093750001,"end":6064.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6065.564093750001,"end":6067.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6067.4540937500005,"end":6069.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6070.13721875,"end":6072.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6072.21284375,"end":6072.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6072.39846875,"end":6072.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6072.4490937499995,"end":6072.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6072.90471875,"end":6073.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6073.64721875,"end":6073.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6073.7147187499995,"end":6073.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6074.54159375,"end":6076.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6076.819718750001,"end":6076.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6076.83659375,"end":6077.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6076.85346875,"end":6077.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6077.30909375,"end":6077.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6077.612843750001,"end":6077.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6077.764718750001,"end":6077.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6077.86596875,"end":6077.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6077.88284375,"end":6077.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6077.899718750001,"end":6085.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6085.05471875,"end":6085.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6085.37534375,"end":6096.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6085.392218750001,"end":6085.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6089.67846875,"end":6089.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6093.25596875,"end":6096.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6097.05284375,"end":6100.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6100.545968750001,"end":6101.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6102.132218750001,"end":6112.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6112.8309687500005,"end":6128.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6114.19784375,"end":6117.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6119.12534375,"end":6119.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6124.575968749999,"end":6128.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6129.689093750001,"end":6145.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6145.298468750001,"end":6150.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6151.27221875,"end":6152.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6153.179093750001,"end":6158.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6160.958468750001,"end":6164.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6164.50221875,"end":6166.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6164.620343750001,"end":6164.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6165.85221875,"end":6166.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6167.050343750001,"end":6167.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6167.151593750001,"end":6172.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6174.087218750001,"end":6176.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6177.749093750001,"end":6178.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6178.87971875,"end":6180.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6180.95534375,"end":6181.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6181.950968749999,"end":6182.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6182.17034375,"end":6212.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6213.085343750001,"end":6213.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6213.76034375,"end":6223.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6218.333468750001,"end":6218.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6218.35034375,"end":6219.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6220.69596875,"end":6220.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6220.79721875,"end":6221.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6221.0165937500005,"end":6221.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6221.87721875,"end":6222.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6222.029093749999,"end":6223.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6223.581593750001,"end":6225.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6223.69971875,"end":6224.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6225.420968750001,"end":6225.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6225.4715937500005,"end":6229.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6228.39096875,"end":6228.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6228.91409375,"end":6228.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6229.6903437500005,"end":6230.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6230.97284375,"end":6231.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6231.934718750001,"end":6231.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6231.968468749999,"end":6233.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6233.9090937500005,"end":6235.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6236.237843750001,"end":6236.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6236.288468750001,"end":6236.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6236.339093750001,"end":6236.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6236.96346875,"end":6238.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6237.99284375,"end":6241.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6242.22846875,"end":6246.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6246.5653437500005,"end":6247.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6247.442843750001,"end":6247.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6247.45971875,"end":6248.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6247.5947187500005,"end":6249.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6249.53534375,"end":6250.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6252.67409375,"end":6257.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6264.368468750001,"end":6265.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6265.583468750001,"end":6266.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6267.11909375,"end":6269.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6269.97096875,"end":6271.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6275.35409375,"end":6275.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6276.14721875,"end":6276.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6278.17221875,"end":6281.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6282.30659375,"end":6284.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6284.517218750001,"end":6286.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6286.89659375,"end":6288.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6289.259093750001,"end":6296.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6296.65034375,"end":6296.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6296.667218750001,"end":6298.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6299.95784375,"end":6302.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6303.01221875,"end":6304.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6305.189093750001,"end":6307.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6309.407843750001,"end":6312.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6312.546593749999,"end":6316.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6315.39846875,"end":6315.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6315.53346875,"end":6315.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6315.600968750001,"end":6315.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6315.63471875,"end":6315.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6315.76971875,"end":6315.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6316.2928437499995,"end":6322.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6320.17409375,"end":6321.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6321.034718750001,"end":6321.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6323.5322187500005,"end":6327.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6328.00409375,"end":6328.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6328.442843750001,"end":6335.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6336.34034375,"end":6347.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6343.24221875,"end":6343.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6343.967843750001,"end":6344.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6344.96346875,"end":6345.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6345.4022187499995,"end":6345.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6345.874718749999,"end":6346.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6347.376593750001,"end":6352.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6352.47284375,"end":6353.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6352.52346875,"end":6352.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6353.02971875,"end":6353.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6353.384093750001,"end":6353.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6353.620343750001,"end":6364.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6365.432843750001,"end":6366.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6366.20909375,"end":6366.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6368.048468750001,"end":6368.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6370.05659375,"end":6371.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6371.946593750001,"end":6372.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6372.52034375,"end":6380.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6376.637843750001,"end":6377.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6377.0428437499995,"end":6377.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6377.059718750001,"end":6377.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6377.36346875,"end":6377.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6377.481593750001,"end":6380.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6380.198468750001,"end":6380.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6380.468468749999,"end":6380.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6380.7215937500005,"end":6380.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6380.77221875,"end":6382.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6380.8397187499995,"end":6382.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6382.1728437500005,"end":6382.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6382.729718750001,"end":6383.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6383.286593750001,"end":6385.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6385.59846875,"end":6386.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6387.20159375,"end":6388.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6389.86784375,"end":6390.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6390.94784375,"end":6393.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6393.20909375,"end":6393.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6393.90096875,"end":6414.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6395.45346875,"end":6397.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6397.967843750001,"end":6399.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6399.368468750001,"end":6399.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6399.638468749999,"end":6400.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6400.3134687500005,"end":6401.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6401.005343750001,"end":6401.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6402.91221875,"end":6402.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6402.96284375,"end":6403.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6403.958468750001,"end":6404.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6406.13534375,"end":6407.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6407.02971875,"end":6407.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6407.63721875,"end":6407.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6412.497218750001,"end":6414.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6415.5009687500005,"end":6417.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6417.593468749999,"end":6424.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6419.753468750001,"end":6419.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6419.854718750001,"end":6420.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6420.327218750001,"end":6420.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6425.2040937500005,"end":6427.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6426.16596875,"end":6426.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6426.58784375,"end":6426.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6428.22471875,"end":6430.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6428.241593750001,"end":6428.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6428.25846875,"end":6429.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6429.405968749999,"end":6429.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6431.751593750001,"end":6437.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6434.0634687500005,"end":6434.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6437.97846875,"end":6438.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6439.22721875,"end":6453.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6449.942843750001,"end":6450.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6450.0272187499995,"end":6450.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6450.06096875,"end":6450.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6450.077843749999,"end":6450.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6450.364718750001,"end":6451.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6452.5584687499995,"end":6455.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6455.005343750001,"end":6464.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6455.07284375,"end":6456.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6456.57471875,"end":6456.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6464.100968750001,"end":6464.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6464.387843750001,"end":6464.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6464.72534375,"end":6469.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6469.41659375,"end":6470.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6470.800343750001,"end":6493.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6475.7615937499995,"end":6476.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6478.14096875,"end":6478.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6481.769093750001,"end":6482.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6482.03909375,"end":6483.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6483.034718750001,"end":6483.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6484.215968750001,"end":6485.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6485.565968750001,"end":6485.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6488.2997187500005,"end":6489.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6490.307843750001,"end":6491.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6493.294718749999,"end":6496.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6496.028468750001,"end":6496.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6496.78784375,"end":6498.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6499.673468750001,"end":6503.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6505.259093750001,"end":6507.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6508.65096875,"end":6510.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6511.78971875,"end":6513.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6514.169093750001,"end":6517.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6518.06721875,"end":6519.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6520.817843750001,"end":6523.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6523.484093749999,"end":6524.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6524.564093750001,"end":6525.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6526.97721875,"end":6529.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6530.419718749999,"end":6533.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6534.216593749999,"end":6535.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6535.85346875,"end":6540.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6536.106593750001,"end":6536.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6536.30909375,"end":6536.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6540.510968750001,"end":6543.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6544.493468750001,"end":6544.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6545.32034375,"end":6546.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6546.56909375,"end":6547.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6548.155343750001,"end":6549.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6550.635968750001,"end":6552.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6553.18409375,"end":6554.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6555.19221875,"end":6556.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6556.94721875,"end":6560.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6561.638468749999,"end":6620.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6591.2372187500005,"end":6591.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6591.591593749999,"end":6592.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6592.97534375,"end":6595.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6595.0340937500005,"end":6596.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6596.58659375,"end":6596.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6603.01596875,"end":6604.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6605.2772187499995,"end":6605.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6609.732218749999,"end":6609.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6609.7997187500005,"end":6609.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6609.9178437499995,"end":6609.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6618.4228437500005,"end":6618.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6618.43971875,"end":6619.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6620.02596875,"end":6621.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6622.60784375,"end":6628.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6628.51409375,"end":6630.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6631.36596875,"end":6633.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6633.86346875,"end":6635.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6636.25971875,"end":6637.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6636.47909375,"end":6637.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6637.42409375,"end":6637.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6637.74471875,"end":6645.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6637.997843749999,"end":6639.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6643.75221875,"end":6646.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6646.14846875,"end":6652.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6652.5272187499995,"end":6659.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6652.544093750001,"end":6652.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6657.80909375,"end":6659.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6659.59784375,"end":6661.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6660.981593750001,"end":6666.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6666.95534375,"end":6668.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6668.9803437499995,"end":6671.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6672.557843750001,"end":6681.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6681.58596875,"end":6681.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6681.687218749999,"end":6689.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6688.639718750001,"end":6689.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6689.854718750001,"end":6689.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6689.888468749999,"end":6691.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6691.08659375,"end":6692.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6692.757218750001,"end":6695.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6696.874718749999,"end":6697.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6697.88721875,"end":6698.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6700.114718750001,"end":6701.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6716.618468750001,"end":6718.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6718.23846875,"end":6719.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6720.19596875,"end":6720.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6721.765343749999,"end":6722.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6722.74409375,"end":6723.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6724.60034375,"end":6725.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6727.671593749999,"end":6728.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6728.86971875,"end":6729.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6730.405343750001,"end":6732.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6733.071593750001,"end":6733.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6733.93221875,"end":6735.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6737.577218750001,"end":6737.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6738.1678437499995,"end":6739.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6739.93971875,"end":6740.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6740.749718749999,"end":6741.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6743.58471875,"end":6744.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6745.626593750001,"end":6746.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6746.993468750001,"end":6747.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6748.3603437500005,"end":6748.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6749.102843750001,"end":6749.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6749.96346875,"end":6750.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6751.6678437499995,"end":6752.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6754.18221875,"end":6756.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6757.47284375,"end":6758.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6758.87346875,"end":6760.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6761.286593750001,"end":6762.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6763.98659375,"end":6764.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6766.60221875,"end":6768.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6769.2684687500005,"end":6770.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6771.00659375,"end":6772.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6776.59221875,"end":6777.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6778.04346875,"end":6779.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6779.69721875,"end":6783.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6779.849093750001,"end":6780.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6783.831593750001,"end":6784.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6785.333468750001,"end":6791.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6790.024718750001,"end":6795.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6797.061593750001,"end":6799.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6798.02346875,"end":6799.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6800.40284375,"end":6802.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6803.40659375,"end":6808.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6804.182843750001,"end":6805.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6806.140343749999,"end":6820.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6815.4384687500005,"end":6815.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6815.45534375,"end":6816.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6816.029093749999,"end":6818.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6819.06659375,"end":6820.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6822.1209687499995,"end":6822.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6823.13346875,"end":6824.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6824.7197187500005,"end":6825.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6825.462218750001,"end":6826.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6826.66034375,"end":6829.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6829.917218750001,"end":6830.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6831.638468749999,"end":6831.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6831.655343750001,"end":6835.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6835.485968750001,"end":6837.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6837.42659375,"end":6837.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6837.89909375,"end":6839.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6839.02971875,"end":6839.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6839.991593750001,"end":6842.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6842.185343749999,"end":6844.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6844.716593749999,"end":6861.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6861.642218750001,"end":6861.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6861.76034375,"end":6861.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6861.81096875,"end":6862.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6862.013468749999,"end":6862.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6862.030343750001,"end":6863.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6864.84846875,"end":6865.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6865.405343750001,"end":6866.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6868.071593750001,"end":6868.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6869.96159375,"end":6873.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6874.3153437500005,"end":6875.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6875.901593750001,"end":6878.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6879.05721875,"end":6881.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6881.419718749999,"end":6882.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6882.38159375,"end":6882.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6883.42784375,"end":6884.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6885.368468750001,"end":6886.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6886.2459687499995,"end":6887.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6888.01784375,"end":6890.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6890.97096875,"end":6891.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6891.038468750001,"end":6892.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6892.05096875,"end":6892.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6892.439093750001,"end":6892.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6892.489718750001,"end":6903.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6901.821593750001,"end":6903.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6903.01971875,"end":6903.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6903.036593750001,"end":6903.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6903.05346875,"end":6903.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6903.087218750001,"end":6903.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6903.694718750001,"end":6903.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6903.829718750001,"end":6903.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6903.930968750001,"end":6904.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6904.89284375,"end":6907.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6908.97659375,"end":6910.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6911.27159375,"end":6912.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6913.077218750001,"end":6916.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6916.78971875,"end":6922.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6922.493468750001,"end":6924.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6925.17659375,"end":6926.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6926.847218750001,"end":6928.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6928.78784375,"end":6930.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6931.18409375,"end":6933.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6933.884093750001,"end":6934.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6935.520968750001,"end":6936.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6937.79909375,"end":6938.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6938.27159375,"end":6940.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6942.01784375,"end":6944.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6944.751593750001,"end":6945.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6944.78534375,"end":6945.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6945.747218750001,"end":6945.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6945.76409375,"end":6945.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6945.84846875,"end":6946.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6946.0340937500005,"end":6946.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6946.27034375,"end":6948.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6947.7215937500005,"end":6949.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6950.050343750001,"end":6950.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6950.06721875,"end":6950.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6950.16846875,"end":6950.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6950.202218750001,"end":6950.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6950.286593750001,"end":6952.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6952.14284375,"end":6954.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6954.67409375,"end":6958.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6958.70721875,"end":6960.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6960.327218750001,"end":6961.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6961.87971875,"end":6963.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6962.63909375,"end":6964.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6964.680968750001,"end":6965.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6965.45721875,"end":6965.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6965.6259687500005,"end":6965.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6965.82846875,"end":6966.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6967.060343749999,"end":6968.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6969.135968750001,"end":6973.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6975.464093750001,"end":6977.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6977.77596875,"end":6978.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6979.733468750001,"end":6980.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6980.6278437500005,"end":6982.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6982.720343750001,"end":6985.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6985.42034375,"end":6986.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6987.24284375,"end":6990.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6990.972218750001,"end":6994.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6995.055968750001,"end":6998.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6998.83596875,"end":7000.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7001.046593750001,"end":7002.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7002.6834687499995,"end":7006.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7006.952843750001,"end":7012.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7009.534718750001,"end":7014.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7014.647843750001,"end":7014.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7014.68159375,"end":7015.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7015.069718750001,"end":7018.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7015.10346875,"end":7015.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7015.98096875,"end":7016.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7018.7822187500005,"end":7018.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7019.32221875,"end":7023.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7022.73096875,"end":7030.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7030.577843750001,"end":7030.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7031.16846875,"end":7031.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7031.185343749999,"end":7034.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7035.184718750001,"end":7039.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7040.382218750001,"end":7040.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7040.39909375,"end":7040.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7040.97284375,"end":7043.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7043.03159375,"end":7043.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7043.53784375,"end":7043.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7043.55471875,"end":7043.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7044.972218750001,"end":7050.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7047.368468750001,"end":7048.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7048.65096875,"end":7049.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7051.38471875,"end":7052.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7053.544718749999,"end":7056.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7056.413468750001,"end":7057.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7057.51034375,"end":7059.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7060.22721875,"end":7062.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7062.80909375,"end":7067.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7067.280968750001,"end":7067.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7068.29346875,"end":7095.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7095.7997187500005,"end":7103.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7103.190968750001,"end":7129.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7130.25846875,"end":7132.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7133.7684687500005,"end":7170.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7170.10034375,"end":7204.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7205.58846875,"end":7205.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7205.97659375,"end":7242.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7212.47346875,"end":7212.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7212.507218750001,"end":7212.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7212.96284375,"end":7212.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7240.89096875,"end":7244.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7244.87346875,"end":7277.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7277.3915937500005,"end":7280.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7279.956593750001,"end":7298.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7298.519093750001,"end":7316.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7316.45721875,"end":7337.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7337.483468750001,"end":7349.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7350.00471875,"end":7355.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7356.40034375,"end":7364.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7365.3778437500005,"end":7369.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7369.41096875,"end":7375.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7376.81909375,"end":7377.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7378.13534375,"end":7384.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7384.868468750001,"end":7401.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7398.7059687500005,"end":7413.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7413.825968749999,"end":7438.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7438.80096875,"end":7457.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7459.1522187499995,"end":7459.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7459.725968750001,"end":7461.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7461.700343750001,"end":7469.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7463.16846875,"end":7463.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7465.37909375,"end":7465.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7470.07034375,"end":7470.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7471.84221875,"end":7481.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7480.14471875,"end":7483.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7483.09784375,"end":7491.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7491.130343750001,"end":7527.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7492.210343750001,"end":7492.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7527.68159375,"end":7530.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7530.415343750001,"end":7533.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7534.296593750001,"end":7571.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7549.247843749999,"end":7549.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7571.74221875,"end":7574.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7575.53909375,"end":7612.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":7613.25471875,"end":7621.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7618.13159375,"end":7618.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7622.232218749999,"end":7627.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7627.817843750001,"end":7628.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7628.340968750001,"end":7656.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7657.46721875,"end":7677.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7658.64846875,"end":7658.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7662.0740937499995,"end":7662.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7662.090968750001,"end":7662.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7671.38909375,"end":7671.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7675.354718750001,"end":7675.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7675.388468749999,"end":7675.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7675.962218750001,"end":7676.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7677.34596875,"end":7677.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7677.362843750001,"end":7677.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7678.18971875,"end":7680.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7681.024718750001,"end":7682.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7684.349093750001,"end":7685.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7693.66409375,"end":7695.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7696.36409375,"end":7698.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7701.25784375,"end":7702.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7703.282843750001,"end":7703.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7707.501593750001,"end":7709.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7709.96534375,"end":7714.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7714.403468750001,"end":7715.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7716.040343750001,"end":7723.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7723.397843750001,"end":7727.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7727.3465937500005,"end":7734.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7734.974093750001,"end":7735.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7736.6278437500005,"end":7747.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7747.815968750001,"end":7748.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7749.503468750001,"end":7751.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7751.8153437500005,"end":7754.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7754.194718750001,"end":7754.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7754.751593750001,"end":7756.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7756.89471875,"end":7757.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7757.40096875,"end":7759.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7759.628468750001,"end":7765.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7765.450343750001,"end":7769.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7769.567843750001,"end":7776.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7776.53721875,"end":7796.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7796.382218750001,"end":7797.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7797.25971875,"end":7802.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7802.54159375,"end":7803.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7803.58784375,"end":7805.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7805.86596875,"end":7823.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7824.00659375,"end":7833.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7833.86159375,"end":7858.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7858.78596875,"end":7865.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7865.36721875,"end":7869.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7869.788468750001,"end":7875.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7875.930968750001,"end":7881.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7881.887843750001,"end":7885.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7886.427218750001,"end":7898.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7891.810343749999,"end":7892.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7898.948468750001,"end":7940.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7942.587218750001,"end":7942.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7942.65471875,"end":7945.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7942.671593750001,"end":7942.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7943.0428437499995,"end":7947.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7946.856593750001,"end":7956.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7949.03346875,"end":7949.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7949.40471875,"end":7949.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7952.59409375,"end":7952.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7952.96534375,"end":7954.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7956.779093749999,"end":7963.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7960.13721875,"end":7960.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7963.42784375,"end":7966.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7966.9715937500005,"end":7968.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7968.62534375,"end":7974.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7974.90284375,"end":7993.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7993.920968750001,"end":7998.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7999.725968750001,"end":8020.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8020.78596875,"end":8021.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8022.372218750001,"end":8049.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8049.89534375,"end":8053.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8054.35034375,"end":8060.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8061.06659375,"end":8062.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8063.2772187499995,"end":8063.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8064.34034375,"end":8071.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8072.609093750001,"end":8163.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8072.96346875,"end":8073.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8164.32471875,"end":8167.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8168.27346875,"end":8171.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8171.2772187499995,"end":8179.950968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8180.575343750001,"end":8181.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8182.347218750001,"end":8190.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8190.5653437500005,"end":8216.805968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8217.059093750002,"end":8217.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8218.004093750002,"end":8229.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8231.33534375,"end":8233.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8233.309718750003,"end":8233.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8234.47409375,"end":8235.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8235.65534375,"end":8236.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8236.75221875,"end":8237.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8237.64659375,"end":8239.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8239.40159375,"end":8242.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8243.687843750002,"end":8246.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8245.004093750002,"end":8246.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8246.67471875,"end":8252.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8253.10409375,"end":8304.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8293.75596875,"end":8293.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8293.97534375,"end":8294.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8297.60346875,"end":8299.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8300.640968750002,"end":8301.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8302.530968750001,"end":8312.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8312.63909375,"end":8317.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8317.58346875,"end":8319.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8319.59159375,"end":8326.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8324.29971875,"end":8340.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8340.70221875,"end":8342.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8343.16596875,"end":8344.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8344.02659375,"end":8347.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8354.40471875,"end":8356.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8357.52659375,"end":8359.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8366.48721875,"end":8367.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8367.870968750001,"end":8368.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8372.69721875,"end":8372.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8372.76471875,"end":8380.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8372.899718750003,"end":8373.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8380.965968750003,"end":8410.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8411.003468750001,"end":8413.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8414.665343750003,"end":8437.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8418.563468750002,"end":8419.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8421.820343750001,"end":8422.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8422.664093750001,"end":8422.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8422.91721875,"end":8422.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8422.96784375,"end":8423.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8423.96346875,"end":8425.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8425.043468750002,"end":8425.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8425.296593750001,"end":8425.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8425.80284375,"end":8426.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8426.207843750002,"end":8426.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8437.024718750003,"end":8439.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8440.062218750001,"end":8442.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8442.03659375,"end":8446.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8447.26784375,"end":8452.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8452.02659375,"end":8452.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8452.60034375,"end":8452.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8452.75221875,"end":8452.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8452.988468750002,"end":8453.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8453.039093750001,"end":8459.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8460.734093750001,"end":8462.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8462.03346875,"end":8468.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8468.024093750002,"end":8477.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8478.199718750002,"end":8485.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8485.23659375,"end":8485.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8485.962218750003,"end":8491.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8486.18159375,"end":8488.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8491.480343750001,"end":8491.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8491.547843750002,"end":8491.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8491.952843750001,"end":8493.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8493.707843750002,"end":8493.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8493.72471875,"end":8496.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8495.95221875,"end":8500.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8499.495968750001,"end":8500.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8500.035968750002,"end":8501.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8500.57596875,"end":8500.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8501.85846875,"end":8508.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8508.96284375,"end":8516.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8516.03346875,"end":8525.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8525.51721875,"end":8526.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8526.023468750001,"end":8532.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8532.97596875,"end":8534.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8534.74784375,"end":8534.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8534.76471875,"end":8557.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8537.12721875,"end":8537.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8537.97096875,"end":8538.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8557.96784375,"end":8571.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8571.97409375,"end":8573.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8573.03721875,"end":8573.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8573.965343750002,"end":8582.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8583.989093750002,"end":8589.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8589.743468750003,"end":8592.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8591.937218750001,"end":8592.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8592.156593750002,"end":8610.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8593.01721875,"end":8593.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8601.488468750002,"end":8601.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8604.35721875,"end":8605.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8605.21784375,"end":8605.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8610.027218750001,"end":8620.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8620.03409375,"end":8621.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8621.02971875,"end":8653.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8653.598468750002,"end":8657.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8658.79596875,"end":8663.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8663.031593750002,"end":8668.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8668.718468750001,"end":8670.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8671.08096875,"end":8674.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8674.92846875,"end":8678.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8679.383468750002,"end":8680.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8681.172218750002,"end":8681.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8682.015968750002,"end":8682.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8682.03284375,"end":8690.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8690.53784375,"end":8692.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8693.33909375,"end":8706.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8706.434093750002,"end":8732.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8714.399093750002,"end":8714.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8715.42846875,"end":8716.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8727.426593750002,"end":8728.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8728.03409375,"end":8729.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8729.14784375,"end":8729.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8729.164718750002,"end":8729.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8733.02909375,"end":8735.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8735.442218750002,"end":8750.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8750.579093750002,"end":8800.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8760.14721875,"end":8760.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":8768.93909375,"end":8770.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8773.782218750002,"end":8774.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8776.094093750002,"end":8776.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8777.69721875,"end":8780.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8781.59534375,"end":8782.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8782.86096875,"end":8785.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8786.168468750002,"end":8788.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8788.024718750003,"end":8789.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8789.15534375,"end":8789.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8800.090343750002,"end":8806.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8807.430968750003,"end":8816.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8817.539093750001,"end":8821.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8822.247218750003,"end":8822.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8824.10346875,"end":8825.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8826.347843750002,"end":8875.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8855.05221875,"end":8856.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8856.65534375,"end":8857.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8858.64659375,"end":8859.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8875.977218750002,"end":8888.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8888.02596875,"end":8912.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8912.96721875,"end":8920.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8920.03784375,"end":8925.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8925.977843750003,"end":8932.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8932.96409375,"end":8946.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8946.953468750002,"end":8948.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8948.691593750002,"end":8949.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8949.265343750001,"end":8949.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8949.315968750001,"end":8949.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8949.535343750002,"end":8949.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8949.55221875,"end":8949.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8949.97409375,"end":8962.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8962.832843750002,"end":8964.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8963.54159375,"end":8965.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8964.97596875,"end":9000.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8965.02659375,"end":8965.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8965.12784375,"end":8965.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8966.12346875,"end":8966.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8970.71346875,"end":8971.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8971.03409375,"end":8971.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8971.523468750001,"end":8971.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8989.15784375,"end":8990.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8996.464718750001,"end":8997.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8998.01721875,"end":9000.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9000.632843750001,"end":9002.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9002.03346875,"end":9015.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9003.45096875,"end":9004.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9010.184093750002,"end":9010.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9011.618468750003,"end":9012.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9015.027218750001,"end":9024.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9024.03846875,"end":9032.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9032.62784375,"end":9038.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9032.712218750003,"end":9034.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9038.972843750002,"end":9041.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9041.031593750002,"end":9050.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9050.02596875,"end":9058.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9055.66221875,"end":9056.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9057.87284375,"end":9070.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9059.05409375,"end":9059.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9072.38534375,"end":9076.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9076.637843750003,"end":9077.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9081.71721875,"end":9083.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9083.30346875,"end":9122.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9122.43659375,"end":9123.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9124.02284375,"end":9139.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9140.374718750001,"end":9154.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9154.566593750002,"end":9155.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9155.460968750001,"end":9173.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9173.43284375,"end":9178.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9179.06909375,"end":9194.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9195.04971875,"end":9196.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9196.58534375,"end":9205.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9206.11971875,"end":9212.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9212.684093750002,"end":9214.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9214.75971875,"end":9224.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9225.137843750003,"end":9228.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9228.715343750002,"end":9231.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9231.73596875,"end":9238.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9238.23284375,"end":9240.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9240.39284375,"end":9243.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9243.76784375,"end":9252.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9252.660968750002,"end":9255.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9257.453468750002,"end":9257.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9257.47034375,"end":9281.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9265.587218750003,"end":9265.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9281.027843750002,"end":9281.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9281.16284375,"end":9288.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9287.085968750001,"end":9301.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9288.58784375,"end":9291.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9301.29471875,"end":9328.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9308.618468750003,"end":9308.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9308.88846875,"end":9308.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9318.38909375,"end":9318.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9323.957843750002,"end":9343.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9330.269093750001,"end":9330.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9344.17409375,"end":9376.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9358.56846875,"end":9360.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9360.137843750003,"end":9360.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9360.62721875,"end":9360.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9360.72846875,"end":9360.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9360.964718750001,"end":9361.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9368.01846875,"end":9368.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9368.035343750002,"end":9368.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9376.472843750002,"end":9389.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9382.31159375,"end":9386.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9389.93909375,"end":9392.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9392.183468750001,"end":9403.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9404.012843750003,"end":9405.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9405.98721875,"end":9407.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9407.72534375,"end":9408.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9409.98659375,"end":9411.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9411.437843750002,"end":9412.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9412.804718750001,"end":9413.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9414.32346875,"end":9422.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9423.11534375,"end":9435.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9435.88971875,"end":9436.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9437.40846875,"end":9437.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9438.218468750001,"end":9440.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9441.509093750003,"end":9447.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9447.95534375,"end":9450.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9449.44034375,"end":9450.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9451.144718750002,"end":9451.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9451.667843750001,"end":9453.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9453.22034375,"end":9453.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9454.28346875,"end":9454.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9454.992218750001,"end":9456.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9457.050968750002,"end":9457.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9457.540343750003,"end":9458.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9458.35034375,"end":9459.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9463.39596875,"end":9464.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9466.484093750001,"end":9466.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9467.344718750002,"end":9468.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9467.78346875,"end":9468.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9469.487843750001,"end":9473.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9469.656593750002,"end":9470.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9477.452843750001,"end":9477.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9477.97596875,"end":9484.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9484.152218750001,"end":9500.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9492.35346875,"end":9492.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9496.386593750001,"end":9496.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9500.95971875,"end":9505.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9505.27971875,"end":9508.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9509.19471875,"end":9512.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9513.29534375,"end":9518.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9518.594093750002,"end":9527.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9526.980968750002,"end":9526.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9526.99784375,"end":9527.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9527.031593750002,"end":9528.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9529.42784375,"end":9530.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9531.28409375,"end":9561.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9537.12284375,"end":9537.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9537.19034375,"end":9537.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9537.24096875,"end":9537.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9537.96659375,"end":9538.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9538.152218750001,"end":9538.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9554.74034375,"end":9558.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9560.22471875,"end":9565.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9566.114093750002,"end":9579.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9579.58034375,"end":9582.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9583.309718750003,"end":9584.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9585.01409375,"end":9587.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9587.528468750003,"end":9590.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9590.312843750002,"end":9591.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9591.004718750002,"end":9591.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9591.02159375,"end":9591.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9591.07221875,"end":9591.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9591.325343750003,"end":9591.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9591.34221875,"end":9591.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":9591.426593750002,"end":9591.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9591.44346875,"end":9591.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9591.76409375,"end":9592.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9591.848468750002,"end":9591.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9592.08471875,"end":9603.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9592.101593750001,"end":9592.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9602.95221875,"end":9605.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9603.930968750003,"end":9604.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9605.06159375,"end":9607.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9605.80409375,"end":9605.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9607.727843750003,"end":9610.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9610.79909375,"end":9633.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9634.305968750003,"end":9636.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9636.60096875,"end":9643.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9644.144093750001,"end":9650.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9650.792843750001,"end":9659.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9660.074093750001,"end":9660.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9660.90096875,"end":9661.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9661.778468750003,"end":9663.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9664.292843750001,"end":9666.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9666.95909375,"end":9688.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9683.42909375,"end":9691.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9689.52096875,"end":9704.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9702.734093750001,"end":9705.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9705.94034375,"end":9710.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9708.87659375,"end":9711.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9711.441593750002,"end":9717.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9714.68159375,"end":9715.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9717.58409375,"end":9719.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9719.33909375,"end":9722.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9720.419093750003,"end":9721.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9723.01784375,"end":9724.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9724.97534375,"end":9730.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9730.544093750003,"end":9734.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9735.30284375,"end":9740.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9740.972843750002,"end":9749.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9744.972218750001,"end":9746.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9749.71409375,"end":9755.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9755.13096875,"end":9766.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9762.488468750002,"end":9762.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9766.032218750002,"end":9767.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9766.99409375,"end":9768.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9769.67721875,"end":9772.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9772.52909375,"end":9773.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9773.00159375,"end":9774.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9774.790343750003,"end":9776.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9776.055968750003,"end":9781.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9776.76471875,"end":9777.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9782.29971875,"end":9784.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9785.03346875,"end":9786.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9788.05409375,"end":9790.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9789.437843750002,"end":9791.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9792.222218750001,"end":9792.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9792.37409375,"end":9793.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9793.52159375,"end":9802.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9796.559093750002,"end":9796.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9803.34284375,"end":9806.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9806.987843750001,"end":9812.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9812.809718750003,"end":9816.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9816.72471875,"end":9819.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9819.67784375,"end":9821.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9821.702843750001,"end":9837.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9822.192218750002,"end":9822.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9826.664093750001,"end":9827.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9837.88596875,"end":9848.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9838.24034375,"end":9838.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9839.910968750002,"end":9840.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9842.391593750002,"end":9847.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9848.88846875,"end":9849.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9849.141593750002,"end":9851.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9850.930343750002,"end":9856.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9856.80284375,"end":9858.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9858.27096875,"end":9858.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9858.456593750001,"end":9862.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9872.699093750001,"end":9877.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9877.99784375,"end":9879.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9890.164718750002,"end":9890.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9891.329093750002,"end":9892.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9892.98284375,"end":9894.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9895.14284375,"end":9896.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9897.910343750002,"end":9906.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9907.64721875,"end":9913.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9913.90784375,"end":9918.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9919.425968750002,"end":9929.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9930.614093750002,"end":9942.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9943.28721875,"end":9946.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9947.438468750002,"end":9949.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9949.34534375,"end":9950.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9951.184718750003,"end":9953.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9953.665343750003,"end":9955.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9957.10784375,"end":9958.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9958.862843750001,"end":9960.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9961.05659375,"end":9962.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9963.030968750001,"end":9964.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9969.629093750002,"end":9982.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9982.032218750002,"end":9982.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9982.774718750003,"end":10035.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10035.69471875,"end":10038.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10045.06034375,"end":10049.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10049.312843750002,"end":10058.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10053.91971875,"end":10053.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10053.97034375,"end":10054.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10054.206593750001,"end":10054.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10054.324718750002,"end":10054.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10058.47596875,"end":10061.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10061.715968750003,"end":10063.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10063.15034375,"end":10075.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10075.03034375,"end":10075.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10075.40159375,"end":10076.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10075.418468750002,"end":10075.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10076.27909375,"end":10089.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10091.43284375,"end":10091.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10091.449718750002,"end":10108.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10108.965968750003,"end":10108.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10109.18534375,"end":10165.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10165.024718750003,"end":10172.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10173.05721875,"end":10174.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10175.11596875,"end":10176.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10176.870968750001,"end":10178.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10179.33471875,"end":10181.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10181.528468750003,"end":10183.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10183.215968750003,"end":10189.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10189.476593750001,"end":10189.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10192.227218750002,"end":10208.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10206.402218750001,"end":10206.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10208.039093750001,"end":10210.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10210.570343750001,"end":10211.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10212.24096875,"end":10214.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10214.957843750002,"end":10216.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10217.77596875,"end":10220.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10221.30284375,"end":10233.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10234.17846875,"end":10239.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10239.257843750001,"end":10256.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10256.80784375,"end":10258.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10258.883468750002,"end":10262.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10262.86596875,"end":10265.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10265.76846875,"end":10266.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10266.831593750001,"end":10302.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10302.77534375,"end":10304.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10305.40784375,"end":10313.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10313.727218750002,"end":10316.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10316.96721875,"end":10318.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10319.110343750002,"end":10323.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10323.632843750001,"end":10324.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10324.577843750001,"end":10325.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10331.969093750002,"end":10333.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10332.40784375,"end":10332.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10334.31471875,"end":10340.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10342.07721875,"end":10349.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10346.12721875,"end":10347.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10348.03409375,"end":10348.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10349.012843750003,"end":10350.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10350.54846875,"end":10354.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10354.81784375,"end":10358.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10359.137843750003,"end":10390.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10390.187843750002,"end":10392.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10392.36471875,"end":10394.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10395.06471875,"end":10410.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10411.14659375,"end":10421.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10421.79471875,"end":10427.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10427.312843750002,"end":10430.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10431.261593750001,"end":10437.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10437.79221875,"end":10442.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10442.90534375,"end":10446.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10446.938468750002,"end":10449.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10449.773468750001,"end":10450.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10451.832218750002,"end":10472.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10472.875343750002,"end":10504.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10504.02659375,"end":10504.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10506.254093750002,"end":10524.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10521.84659375,"end":10522.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10524.833468750003,"end":10524.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10525.42409375,"end":10525.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10525.96409375,"end":10528.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10529.187218750001,"end":10531.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10531.02659375,"end":10531.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10531.39784375,"end":10531.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10531.43159375,"end":10577.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10538.08034375,"end":10538.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10538.384093750003,"end":10539.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10539.86909375,"end":10539.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10541.45534375,"end":10541.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10577.85471875,"end":10577.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10577.871593750002,"end":10577.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10577.88846875,"end":10578.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10578.445343750001,"end":10579.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10580.33534375,"end":10586.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10587.675968750002,"end":10590.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10589.39721875,"end":10590.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10590.61221875,"end":10599.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10600.332218750002,"end":10630.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10608.128468750001,"end":10608.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10617.02159375,"end":10617.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10617.03846875,"end":10617.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10617.359093750001,"end":10617.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10628.00721875,"end":10633.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10638.790343750003,"end":10640.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10641.034718750001,"end":10641.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10641.051593750002,"end":10641.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10641.06846875,"end":10642.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10645.472843750002,"end":10645.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10647.261593750001,"end":10683.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10683.036593750003,"end":10683.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10683.89721875,"end":10683.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10683.914093750001,"end":10683.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10684.774718750003,"end":10691.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10687.91346875,"end":10701.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10693.094093750002,"end":10693.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10702.425968750002,"end":10702.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10702.56096875,"end":10702.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10702.66221875,"end":10702.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10703.050343750001,"end":10703.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10703.910968750002,"end":10712.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10713.074093750001,"end":10721.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10714.47471875,"end":10714.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10719.70596875,"end":10744.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10722.675968750002,"end":10724.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10725.308468750001,"end":10726.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10726.523468750001,"end":10726.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10727.316593750002,"end":10727.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10731.09659375,"end":10731.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10744.410968750002,"end":10749.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10749.38909375,"end":10757.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10757.894093750001,"end":10779.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10760.15534375,"end":10764.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10764.69471875,"end":10764.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10771.461593750002,"end":10771.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10771.47846875,"end":10771.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10771.64721875,"end":10771.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10779.747218750003,"end":10783.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10783.544093750003,"end":10786.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10786.09221875,"end":10786.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10786.429718750001,"end":10786.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10786.46346875,"end":10787.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10787.03721875,"end":10799.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10792.74096875,"end":10794.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10795.356593750003,"end":10797.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10799.676593750002,"end":10808.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10799.71034375,"end":10800.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10801.22909375,"end":10801.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10805.430968750003,"end":10813.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10812.19784375,"end":10822.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10822.035968750002,"end":10827.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10826.052218750003,"end":10833.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10833.325343750003,"end":10834.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10834.422218750002,"end":10842.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10843.855343750001,"end":10865.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.72534375,"end":10885.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10886.414093750001,"end":10891.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10891.35846875,"end":10894.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10894.952843750001,"end":10906.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10906.52909375,"end":10907.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10907.86221875,"end":10929.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10929.495968750001,"end":10938.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10938.574718750002,"end":10940.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10941.54471875,"end":10943.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10943.215343750002,"end":10944.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10944.953468750002,"end":10947.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10947.552218750003,"end":10953.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10953.40784375,"end":10957.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10957.710968750001,"end":10957.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10958.01471875,"end":10958.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10958.06534375,"end":10958.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10959.465968750003,"end":11009.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10961.01846875,"end":10961.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10966.367843750002,"end":10969.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10974.130343750003,"end":10974.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10974.585968750001,"end":10974.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10975.547843750002,"end":10975.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10975.88534375,"end":10975.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10980.15471875,"end":10980.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10980.20534375,"end":10980.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10980.27284375,"end":10980.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10980.289718750002,"end":10980.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10980.340343750002,"end":10980.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10982.550968750002,"end":10983.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10983.614093750002,"end":10983.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10994.71784375,"end":10994.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10994.802218750003,"end":10996.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10996.81034375,"end":10998.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11000.539718750002,"end":11001.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11005.079093750002,"end":11007.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11009.36534375,"end":11033.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11009.38221875,"end":11010.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11033.969093750002,"end":11038.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11038.89659375,"end":11049.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11050.793468750002,"end":11053.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11052.902843750002,"end":11055.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11054.57346875,"end":11060.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11061.10409375,"end":11062.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11062.302218750003,"end":11065.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11067.128468750001,"end":11086.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11073.13596875,"end":11073.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11082.36659375,"end":11083.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11083.952843750001,"end":11084.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11084.290343750003,"end":11101.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11099.849093750003,"end":11100.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11101.688468750002,"end":11102.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11102.02596875,"end":11110.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11111.020343750002,"end":11116.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11117.179718750001,"end":11119.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11119.035968750002,"end":11128.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11119.32284375,"end":11120.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11121.415343750003,"end":11123.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11126.39346875,"end":11126.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11126.44409375,"end":11128.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11128.317218750002,"end":11132.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11131.18596875,"end":11131.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11131.92846875,"end":11134.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11135.15159375,"end":11150.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11143.859093750001,"end":11144.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11144.027843750002,"end":11144.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11149.832843750002,"end":11154.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11154.11909375,"end":11168.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11159.586593750002,"end":11161.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11163.434093750002,"end":11163.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11163.585968750001,"end":11163.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11163.653468750003,"end":11163.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11168.41221875,"end":11169.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11170.26846875,"end":11170.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11170.52159375,"end":11172.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11171.719718750002,"end":11171.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11173.390343750001,"end":11174.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11174.63909375,"end":11181.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11181.55784375,"end":11183.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11183.903468750003,"end":11192.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11192.94846875,"end":11194.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11195.05784375,"end":11200.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11200.54221875,"end":11204.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11205.250343750002,"end":11210.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11211.39284375,"end":11213.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11213.28284375,"end":11216.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11218.09221875,"end":11218.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11218.109093750001,"end":11218.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11219.20596875,"end":11222.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11222.243468750003,"end":11222.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11222.42909375,"end":11222.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11222.58096875,"end":11222.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11222.90159375,"end":11223.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11223.57659375,"end":11223.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11223.644093750001,"end":11223.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11223.812843750002,"end":11223.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11223.82971875,"end":11224.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11223.981593750003,"end":11226.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11224.065968750001,"end":11224.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11225.73659375,"end":11228.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11228.149718750003,"end":11229.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11229.85409375,"end":11236.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11237.565968750001,"end":11242.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11242.03784375,"end":11249.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11247.82596875,"end":11249.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11250.20534375,"end":11253.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11253.411593750003,"end":11253.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11253.42846875,"end":11255.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11255.571593750003,"end":11256.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11255.942843750003,"end":11256.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11258.76096875,"end":11260.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11264.97096875,"end":11265.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11267.13096875,"end":11267.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11267.434718750003,"end":11271.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11271.805343750002,"end":11273.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11272.36221875,"end":11272.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11273.070968750002,"end":11273.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11273.18909375,"end":11274.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11273.35784375,"end":11274.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11274.539093750001,"end":11275.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11320.962218750003,"end":11321.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11322.02534375,"end":11322.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11322.09284375,"end":11322.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11322.160343750002,"end":11322.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11322.734093750001,"end":11323.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11323.206593750001,"end":11323.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11323.425968750002,"end":11323.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11324.35409375,"end":11328.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11328.488468750002,"end":11329.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11329.399718750003,"end":11338.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11329.41659375,"end":11331.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11331.914093750001,"end":11332.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11333.36534375,"end":11334.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11334.47909375,"end":11334.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11334.816593750002,"end":11334.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11338.259093750003,"end":11341.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11338.613468750002,"end":11338.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11340.824093750001,"end":11340.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11340.97596875,"end":11345.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11345.17784375,"end":11347.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11347.77659375,"end":11347.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11347.962218750003,"end":11348.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11348.02971875,"end":11348.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11349.160343750002,"end":11351.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11352.585968750001,"end":11352.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11352.636593750001,"end":11353.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11366.96346875,"end":11368.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11388.546593750001,"end":11388.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11899.977218750002,"end":11900.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11901.968468750001,"end":11902.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11902.96409375,"end":11903.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11904.550343750001,"end":11910.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11911.114718750003,"end":11912.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11924.192843750003,"end":11924.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11926.99409375,"end":11927.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11930.875343750002,"end":11931.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11931.90471875,"end":11934.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11944.45971875,"end":11947.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11948.020343750002,"end":11948.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11948.070968750002,"end":11948.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11949.35346875,"end":11950.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11950.14659375,"end":11951.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11951.327843750001,"end":11951.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11951.395343750002,"end":11951.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11951.56409375,"end":11951.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11951.614718750003,"end":11952.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11951.95221875,"end":11953.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11953.16721875,"end":11953.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11953.234718750002,"end":11954.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11954.027843750002,"end":11954.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11955.73221875,"end":11955.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11955.765968750002,"end":11956.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11957.099093750003,"end":11957.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11957.89221875,"end":11962.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11962.85346875,"end":11963.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11965.03034375,"end":11965.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11965.047218750002,"end":11965.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11965.97534375,"end":11966.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11974.395968750003,"end":11984.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11984.95971875,"end":11990.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11991.38909375,"end":11993.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11994.49409375,"end":12001.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12002.15534375,"end":12005.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12007.62284375,"end":12011.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12010.12034375,"end":12011.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12011.48721875,"end":12012.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12013.59659375,"end":12016.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12016.90409375,"end":12017.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12017.427218750003,"end":12021.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12019.266593750002,"end":12019.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12021.54471875,"end":12028.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12028.952843750001,"end":12033.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12032.496593750002,"end":12033.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12033.82971875,"end":12034.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12034.16721875,"end":12035.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12036.242843750002,"end":12042.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12043.144718750002,"end":12044.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12045.794093750003,"end":12048.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12048.29159375,"end":12048.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12049.320968750002,"end":12054.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12054.94034375,"end":12060.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12060.390968750002,"end":12061.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12061.21784375,"end":12067.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12068.22096875,"end":12070.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12071.24159375,"end":12074.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12074.59971875,"end":12078.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12078.683468750001,"end":12078.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12078.734093750001,"end":12084.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12086.36159375,"end":12086.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12087.542843750001,"end":12094.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12095.64284375,"end":12096.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12097.06034375,"end":12100.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12101.059718750003,"end":12113.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12114.171593750001,"end":12160.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12120.027218750001,"end":12120.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12120.22971875,"end":12120.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12120.48284375,"end":12121.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12121.74846875,"end":12121.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12121.782218750002,"end":12121.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12121.815968750001,"end":12121.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12121.86659375,"end":12123.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12123.149093750002,"end":12123.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12127.92471875,"end":12128.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12133.122218750003,"end":12133.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12137.13846875,"end":12137.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12137.340968750003,"end":12137.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12137.712218750003,"end":12137.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12152.24159375,"end":12152.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12159.93659375,"end":12160.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12160.071593750003,"end":12166.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12163.46346875,"end":12163.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12167.445968750002,"end":12171.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12171.765968750002,"end":12172.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12172.407218750002,"end":12174.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12174.70221875,"end":12191.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12174.75284375,"end":12175.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12191.391593750002,"end":12193.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12193.956593750001,"end":12200.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12200.520968750003,"end":12201.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12200.90909375,"end":12202.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12202.59659375,"end":12206.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12209.042843750001,"end":12209.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12210.02159375,"end":12226.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12222.188468750002,"end":12222.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12222.222218750001,"end":12222.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12226.559093750002,"end":12239.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12229.79909375,"end":12230.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12232.515968750002,"end":12232.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12236.903468750003,"end":12237.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12239.24909375,"end":12242.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12242.708468750003,"end":12245.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12246.57284375,"end":12262.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12262.90784375,"end":12263.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12263.97096875,"end":12269.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12270.51846875,"end":12298.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12273.555968750003,"end":12273.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12273.589718750001,"end":12273.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12273.82596875,"end":12273.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12277.31909375,"end":12277.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12277.437218750001,"end":12278.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12278.129093750002,"end":12278.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12299.172218750002,"end":12316.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12316.941593750002,"end":12316.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12316.992218750001,"end":12319.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12320.265968750002,"end":12321.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12322.274093750002,"end":12324.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12324.957218750002,"end":12326.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12327.30284375,"end":12329.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12329.867843750002,"end":12331.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12331.94346875,"end":12336.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12336.73596875,"end":12340.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12340.988468750002,"end":12341.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12342.102218750002,"end":12343.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12343.199093750001,"end":12344.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12345.91596875,"end":12352.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12353.172218750002,"end":12359.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12363.347843750002,"end":12371.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12371.39721875,"end":12380.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12380.77971875,"end":12383.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12383.93534375,"end":12388.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12389.89221875,"end":12390.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12391.02284375,"end":12418.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12396.844718750002,"end":12396.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12396.86159375,"end":12397.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12398.211593750002,"end":12398.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12398.27909375,"end":12398.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12415.255343750003,"end":12416.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12419.22096875,"end":12495.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12430.45971875,"end":12430.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12430.83096875,"end":12432.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12436.703468750002,"end":12437.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12447.149093750002,"end":12448.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12448.97159375,"end":12448.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12449.359718750002,"end":12449.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12449.37659375,"end":12451.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12451.65471875,"end":12451.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12452.633468750002,"end":12453.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12459.113468750002,"end":12460.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12472.05659375,"end":12472.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12481.77659375,"end":12482.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12483.599093750003,"end":12483.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12492.711593750002,"end":12493.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12495.833468750003,"end":12505.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12506.44784375,"end":12511.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12511.577843750001,"end":12522.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12522.968468750001,"end":12524.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12525.33096875,"end":12527.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12529.262843750003,"end":12536.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12537.44721875,"end":12537.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12539.050343750001,"end":12548.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12540.113468750002,"end":12542.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12549.10784375,"end":12569.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12553.96784375,"end":12554.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12554.052218750003,"end":12554.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12556.33034375,"end":12557.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12557.140343750001,"end":12557.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12569.543468750002,"end":12571.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12572.024093750002,"end":12579.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12579.90471875,"end":12623.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12583.95471875,"end":12584.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12599.969093750002,"end":12600.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12623.89784375,"end":12624.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12624.269093750001,"end":12631.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12631.96409375,"end":12632.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12632.01471875,"end":12632.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12632.082218750002,"end":12632.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12632.149718750003,"end":12634.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12632.16659375,"end":12632.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12634.15784375,"end":12636.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12637.27971875,"end":12646.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12651.977843750003,"end":12652.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12655.184093750002,"end":12655.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12655.20096875,"end":12658.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12658.79534375,"end":12661.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12662.052218750003,"end":12663.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12663.63846875,"end":12664.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12664.718468750001,"end":12666.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12668.430968750003,"end":12668.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12668.835968750001,"end":12668.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12668.886593750001,"end":12668.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12668.97096875,"end":12669.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12669.71346875,"end":12669.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12669.730343750001,"end":12670.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12672.02534375,"end":12672.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12672.81846875,"end":12680.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12675.24846875,"end":12675.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12680.00721875,"end":12680.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12680.42909375,"end":12680.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12680.445968750002,"end":12681.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12681.964718750001,"end":12684.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12684.023468750001,"end":12694.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12694.97534375,"end":12699.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12699.02534375,"end":12702.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12702.72096875,"end":12703.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12703.88534375,"end":12708.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12708.57659375,"end":12711.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12713.554718750001,"end":12721.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12721.55346875,"end":12725.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12726.29534375,"end":12726.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12727.122218750003,"end":12728.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12730.328468750002,"end":12743.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12737.652218750001,"end":12739.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12741.48284375,"end":12741.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12743.558468750001,"end":12743.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12744.16596875,"end":12745.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12745.02659375,"end":12749.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12749.785343750002,"end":12751.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12751.28721875,"end":12754.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12756.02909375,"end":12760.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12761.20971875,"end":12761.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12761.42909375,"end":12761.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12761.85096875,"end":12765.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12765.782843750003,"end":12765.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12765.79971875,"end":12773.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12773.258468750002,"end":12773.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12773.309093750002,"end":12777.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12777.76409375,"end":12777.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12777.780968750001,"end":12777.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12777.81471875,"end":12781.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12782.269718750002,"end":12784.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12784.26096875,"end":12786.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12786.977843750003,"end":12790.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12791.449718750002,"end":12792.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12794.132843750001,"end":12797.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12796.64721875,"end":12797.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12798.06471875,"end":12799.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12799.92096875,"end":12800.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12801.270968750003,"end":12801.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12801.55784375,"end":12802.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12803.532218750002,"end":12806.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12806.485343750002,"end":12807.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12807.970343750003,"end":12809.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12809.961593750002,"end":12860.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12821.925968750002,"end":12822.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12822.06096875,"end":12823.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12823.02284375,"end":12823.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12823.05659375,"end":12823.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12823.27596875,"end":12825.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12825.01409375,"end":12825.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12839.30721875,"end":12841.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12850.12409375,"end":12850.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12850.259093750003,"end":12852.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12852.722843750002,"end":12852.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12859.118468750003,"end":12859.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12860.02971875,"end":12873.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12874.609718750002,"end":12875.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12875.63909375,"end":12877.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12878.474093750003,"end":12878.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12878.96346875,"end":12879.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12879.11534375,"end":12879.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12880.347218750001,"end":12881.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12882.051593750002,"end":12883.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12884.262218750002,"end":12885.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12885.426593750002,"end":12885.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12886.70909375,"end":12888.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12889.122218750003,"end":12891.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12891.805343750002,"end":12892.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12894.117218750001,"end":12901.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12901.79534375,"end":12902.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12902.875343750002,"end":12903.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12903.95534375,"end":12907.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12908.579093750002,"end":12913.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12914.097218750001,"end":12923.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12924.914093750001,"end":12926.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12926.669093750003,"end":12928.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12928.930343750002,"end":12931.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12931.984718750002,"end":12932.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12933.199718750002,"end":12934.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12934.60034375,"end":12937.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12938.110343750002,"end":12941.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12942.86909375,"end":12957.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12958.360343750002,"end":12958.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12958.37721875,"end":12958.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12959.406593750002,"end":12960.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12960.85784375,"end":12977.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12972.974093750003,"end":12973.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12973.88534375,"end":12985.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12977.969093750002,"end":12980.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12980.972843750002,"end":12981.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12985.84971875,"end":12988.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12988.887218750002,"end":12993.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12993.49409375,"end":12995.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12995.957843750002,"end":13000.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13001.442218750002,"end":13003.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13004.15909375,"end":13004.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13005.610343750002,"end":13006.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13008.31034375,"end":13008.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13008.344093750002,"end":13009.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13010.706593750001,"end":13011.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13011.26346875,"end":13032.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13011.297218750002,"end":13011.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13011.43221875,"end":13011.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13018.70534375,"end":13020.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13020.629093750002,"end":13020.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13021.472843750002,"end":13021.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13031.63159375,"end":13032.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13032.37409375,"end":13033.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13033.032218750002,"end":13041.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13041.790343750003,"end":13045.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13046.042843750001,"end":13064.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13064.520968750003,"end":13078.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13079.03346875,"end":13080.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13080.82221875,"end":13085.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13085.665343750003,"end":13092.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13093.32659375,"end":13101.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13101.93284375,"end":13106.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13107.40034375,"end":13109.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13109.98221875,"end":13113.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13114.63971875,"end":13115.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13115.48346875,"end":13115.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13116.73221875,"end":13116.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13116.765968750002,"end":13118.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13118.925968750002,"end":13121.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13121.777843750002,"end":13124.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13124.849093750003,"end":13124.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13125.08534375,"end":13125.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13125.13596875,"end":13125.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13125.16971875,"end":13134.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13135.46346875,"end":13135.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13135.480343750001,"end":13136.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13136.796593750001,"end":13138.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13138.956593750001,"end":13141.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13141.487843750001,"end":13141.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13141.84221875,"end":13143.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13143.023468750001,"end":13146.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13146.28034375,"end":13146.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13146.887843750003,"end":13150.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13150.87034375,"end":13156.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13157.637218750002,"end":13158.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13160.590343750002,"end":13161.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13162.31159375,"end":13164.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13164.82596875,"end":13167.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13168.285343750002,"end":13170.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13171.54221875,"end":13174.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13175.17034375,"end":13178.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13179.675968750002,"end":13181.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13181.39721875,"end":13183.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13185.312218750001,"end":13187.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13187.657843750003,"end":13189.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13190.98221875,"end":13191.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13192.754093750002,"end":13196.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13197.32721875,"end":13198.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13199.149718750003,"end":13201.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13202.44034375,"end":13203.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13203.891593750002,"end":13206.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13207.97534375,"end":13212.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13215.164093750001,"end":13217.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13218.04971875,"end":13229.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13230.722843750002,"end":13234.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13234.907843750003,"end":13236.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13236.224093750003,"end":13237.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13238.97471875,"end":13240.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13241.50596875,"end":13242.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13243.227218750002,"end":13244.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13245.40409375,"end":13248.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13249.454093750002,"end":13251.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13252.440968750001,"end":13254.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13255.579718750003,"end":13256.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13258.988468750002,"end":13263.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13263.359093750001,"end":13265.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13265.24909375,"end":13267.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13267.88159375,"end":13273.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13273.973468750002,"end":13277.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13277.95596875,"end":13278.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13278.968468750001,"end":13279.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13279.035968750002,"end":13281.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13282.613468750002,"end":13288.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13288.485968750003,"end":13290.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13291.270343750002,"end":13291.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13292.40096875,"end":13297.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13298.543468750002,"end":13306.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13307.622218750003,"end":13309.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13309.680968750003,"end":13311.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13312.515968750002,"end":13315.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13316.144093750001,"end":13317.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13318.489718750003,"end":13319.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13320.278468750003,"end":13324.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13325.425343750001,"end":13326.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13326.859718750002,"end":13328.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13329.32346875,"end":13330.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13330.909718750001,"end":13331.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13333.42409375,"end":13346.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13340.005343750003,"end":13340.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13340.039093750001,"end":13342.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13344.02159375,"end":13344.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13344.03846875,"end":13348.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13348.594718750002,"end":13350.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13350.67034375,"end":13355.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13355.985968750003,"end":13356.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13357.09971875,"end":13357.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13357.977218750002,"end":13371.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13366.954718750003,"end":13372.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13371.207218750002,"end":13371.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13372.844093750002,"end":13372.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13372.962218750003,"end":13372.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13372.97909375,"end":13373.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13373.012843750003,"end":13373.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13373.14784375,"end":13373.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13373.367218750001,"end":13373.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13373.384093750003,"end":13373.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13373.40096875,"end":13374.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13373.417843750001,"end":13384.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13374.227843750003,"end":13374.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13375.03784375,"end":13378.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13384.133468750002,"end":13387.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13384.335968750001,"end":13385.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13387.74471875,"end":13392.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13391.305343750002,"end":13396.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13394.07284375,"end":13394.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13394.460968750001,"end":13394.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13397.144093750001,"end":13397.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13397.160968750002,"end":13397.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13397.515343750001,"end":13397.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13397.565968750001,"end":13399.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13398.19034375,"end":13398.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13398.325343750003,"end":13398.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13398.848468750002,"end":13399.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13400.23221875,"end":13403.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13411.724093750003,"end":13415.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13417.05659375,"end":13417.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13419.469718750002,"end":13419.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13419.48659375,"end":13420.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13421.039093750001,"end":13421.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13421.798468750003,"end":13427.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13427.097218750001,"end":13427.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13427.384093750003,"end":13427.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13427.40096875,"end":13427.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13428.02534375,"end":13433.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13434.167843750001,"end":13439.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13440.394718750002,"end":13449.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13449.878468750001,"end":13456.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13456.949093750001,"end":13471.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13456.965968750003,"end":13458.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13472.33909375,"end":13475.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13475.27534375,"end":13483.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13483.24034375,"end":13486.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13485.45096875,"end":13494.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13489.36596875,"end":13489.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13494.462218750003,"end":13502.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13503.01784375,"end":13517.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13517.985968750003,"end":13538.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13523.031593750002,"end":13524.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13524.195968750002,"end":13524.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13525.05659375,"end":13525.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13525.461593750002,"end":13525.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13538.759093750003,"end":13545.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13544.614718750003,"end":13545.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13546.20096875,"end":13558.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13554.60471875,"end":13557.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13558.13159375,"end":13559.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13559.802218750003,"end":13560.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13560.76409375,"end":13561.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13561.81034375,"end":13562.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13562.839718750001,"end":13562.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13562.87346875,"end":13563.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13563.09284375,"end":13563.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13564.122218750003,"end":13565.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13566.265343750001,"end":13569.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13569.79221875,"end":13571.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13570.804718750001,"end":13571.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13571.800343750001,"end":13572.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13571.817218750002,"end":13571.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13571.969093750002,"end":13573.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13573.234718750002,"end":13575.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13575.10784375,"end":13577.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13575.27659375,"end":13575.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13575.816593750002,"end":13575.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13575.90096875,"end":13575.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13577.26784375,"end":13577.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13577.48721875,"end":13577.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13577.53784375,"end":13577.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13577.554718750001,"end":13579.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13579.02284375,"end":13582.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13582.836593750002,"end":13590.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13585.87409375,"end":13586.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13590.801593750002,"end":13590.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13590.81846875,"end":13592.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13591.493468750003,"end":13592.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13592.77596875,"end":13592.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13592.809718750003,"end":13592.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13592.843468750001,"end":13592.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13593.079718750003,"end":13598.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13598.83409375,"end":13598.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13598.88471875,"end":13598.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13598.93534375,"end":13599.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13599.222218750001,"end":13601.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13601.567843750003,"end":13627.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13615.894718750002,"end":13616.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13616.97471875,"end":13617.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13626.863468750002,"end":13641.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13627.808468750001,"end":13628.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13642.30409375,"end":13650.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13650.42096875,"end":13652.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13651.973468750002,"end":13657.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13655.669093750003,"end":13662.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13663.97159375,"end":13664.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13665.372218750003,"end":13671.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13671.970343750003,"end":13673.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13673.640968750002,"end":13680.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13679.226593750001,"end":13680.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13680.77909375,"end":13682.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13682.179718750001,"end":13683.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13684.32284375,"end":13687.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13688.136593750001,"end":13689.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13689.53721875,"end":13690.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13691.64659375,"end":13693.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13693.992218750001,"end":13697.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13698.210968750001,"end":13701.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13702.26096875,"end":13704.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13704.387218750002,"end":13706.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13706.665343750003,"end":13707.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13709.04471875,"end":13709.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13709.78721875,"end":13711.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13712.352218750002,"end":13712.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13716.570968750002,"end":13716.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13716.60471875,"end":13716.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13716.672218750002,"end":13717.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13717.97159375,"end":13717.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13718.29221875,"end":13730.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13728.09659375,"end":13731.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13731.167843750001,"end":13731.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13731.640343750001,"end":13734.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13732.602218750002,"end":13738.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13739.132843750001,"end":13741.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13740.22971875,"end":13741.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13741.714718750001,"end":13742.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13743.419093750003,"end":13744.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13744.92096875,"end":13745.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13745.984093750001,"end":13746.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13747.907843750003,"end":13748.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13749.02159375,"end":13749.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13750.40534375,"end":13751.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13751.77221875,"end":13753.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13754.82659375,"end":13757.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13757.290343750003,"end":13758.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13758.67409375,"end":13759.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13758.977843750003,"end":13760.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13760.15909375,"end":13761.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13760.88471875,"end":13763.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13763.095343750003,"end":13763.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13763.331593750001,"end":13763.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13763.48346875,"end":13763.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13763.500343750002,"end":13763.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13763.78721875,"end":13764.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13764.023468750001,"end":13764.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13765.457843750002,"end":13767.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13767.145343750002,"end":13767.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13767.195968750002,"end":13767.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13767.719093750002,"end":13768.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13768.039718750002,"end":13768.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13768.69784375,"end":13782.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13772.22471875,"end":13772.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13772.24159375,"end":13772.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13772.29221875,"end":13772.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13772.32596875,"end":13772.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13772.96721875,"end":13773.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13773.23721875,"end":13773.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13773.254093750002,"end":13773.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13780.172843750002,"end":13780.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13782.214718750001,"end":13782.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13782.855968750002,"end":13782.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13782.974093750003,"end":13787.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13788.087218750003,"end":13789.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13789.875968750002,"end":13791.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13791.47909375,"end":13792.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13793.31846875,"end":13794.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13795.815968750001,"end":13796.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13796.187218750001,"end":13797.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13797.21659375,"end":13797.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13797.28409375,"end":13797.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13797.38534375,"end":13797.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13798.39784375,"end":13802.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13802.835968750001,"end":13812.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13812.31971875,"end":13818.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13818.816593750002,"end":13824.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13825.70159375,"end":13826.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13827.743468750003,"end":13830.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13830.831593750001,"end":13832.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13832.77221875,"end":13834.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13833.34596875,"end":13836.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13836.88971875,"end":13838.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13838.56034375,"end":13838.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13839.285968750002,"end":13845.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13845.597218750001,"end":13852.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13852.87034375,"end":13856.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13856.54909375,"end":13860.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13860.19409375,"end":13861.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13863.113468750002,"end":13864.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13864.581593750001,"end":13865.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13865.745968750001,"end":13867.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13867.922843750002,"end":13869.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13869.72846875,"end":13872.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13872.64784375,"end":13873.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13872.69846875,"end":13874.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13874.90909375,"end":13877.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13877.01846875,"end":13877.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13877.305343750002,"end":13879.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13878.621593750002,"end":13879.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13879.02659375,"end":13879.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13880.157218750002,"end":13881.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13881.692843750003,"end":13882.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13882.300343750001,"end":13884.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13884.86534375,"end":13886.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13886.215343750002,"end":13889.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13890.04596875,"end":13891.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13891.93596875,"end":13899.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13895.918468750002,"end":13897.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13899.192218750002,"end":13899.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13899.765968750002,"end":13899.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13899.917843750001,"end":13900.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13900.019093750001,"end":13901.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13900.019093750001,"end":13902.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13902.364718750003,"end":13908.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13908.13596875,"end":13915.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13915.965968750003,"end":13916.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13917.214718750001,"end":13919.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13919.290343750003,"end":13921.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13923.087218750003,"end":13923.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13924.74096875,"end":13925.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13926.141593750002,"end":13927.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13928.200343750003,"end":13928.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13929.415343750003,"end":13930.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13930.883468750002,"end":13931.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13931.828468750002,"end":13932.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13932.149093750002,"end":13933.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13934.140343750001,"end":13940.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13939.472843750002,"end":13939.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13940.485343750002,"end":13941.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13941.700343750003,"end":13944.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13945.83471875,"end":13946.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13946.83034375,"end":13950.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13947.690968750001,"end":13948.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13948.652843750002,"end":13949.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13950.559718750003,"end":13951.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13951.859093750001,"end":13956.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13954.96409375,"end":13956.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13957.59659375,"end":13958.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13958.929718750001,"end":13967.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13964.312843750002,"end":13964.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13967.890343750001,"end":13974.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13968.059093750002,"end":13968.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13974.859718750002,"end":13976.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13976.09159375,"end":13995.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13993.03409375,"end":13994.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13995.480968750002,"end":14002.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14002.382843750001,"end":14002.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14002.821593750003,"end":14005.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14006.04471875,"end":14013.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14011.630343750003,"end":14012.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14013.098468750002,"end":14015.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14016.38909375,"end":14021.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14021.282843750003,"end":14030.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14030.175968750002,"end":14030.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14030.243468750003,"end":14030.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14030.344718750002,"end":14030.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14030.95221875,"end":14031.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.070343750001,"end":14031.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14031.10409375,"end":14031.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.188468750002,"end":14031.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14031.289718750002,"end":14031.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.35721875,"end":14031.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14031.37409375,"end":14031.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.458468750003,"end":14031.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14031.57659375,"end":14031.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.67784375,"end":14031.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14031.69471875,"end":14031.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14031.964718750001,"end":14032.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14032.53846875,"end":14035.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14035.289093750001,"end":14038.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14038.49534375,"end":14042.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14042.562218750001,"end":14046.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14046.66284375,"end":14052.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14053.109093750001,"end":14058.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14059.032218750002,"end":14084.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14081.88096875,"end":14102.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14102.755343750003,"end":14106.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14106.78846875,"end":14113.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14107.73346875,"end":14108.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14113.437218750001,"end":14117.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14122.262843750003,"end":14124.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14139.32346875,"end":14141.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14141.78721875,"end":14142.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14142.58034375,"end":14143.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14148.23346875,"end":14148.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14148.97596875,"end":14149.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14149.836593750002,"end":14150.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14151.49034375,"end":14153.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14154.29159375,"end":14156.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14156.97471875,"end":14159.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14159.60721875,"end":14159.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14160.19784375,"end":14161.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14161.024718750003,"end":14161.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14162.47596875,"end":14162.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14162.492843750002,"end":14163.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14163.74159375,"end":14164.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14165.192843750003,"end":14166.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14167.20096875,"end":14167.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14167.99409375,"end":14169.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14169.411593750003,"end":14171.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14171.36909375,"end":14172.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14173.44471875,"end":14174.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14174.69346875,"end":14177.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14178.456593750001,"end":14179.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14180.835968750001,"end":14182.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14183.063468750002,"end":14184.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14185.004093750002,"end":14185.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14185.054718750001,"end":14186.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14186.269718750002,"end":14187.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14188.36221875,"end":14190.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14191.382843750001,"end":14193.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14194.875968750002,"end":14198.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14198.892218750003,"end":14199.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14200.512218750002,"end":14201.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14202.300968750002,"end":14204.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14204.59596875,"end":14209.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14210.35034375,"end":14212.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14212.864718750003,"end":14213.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14213.82659375,"end":14215.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14216.796593750001,"end":14218.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14219.614718750003,"end":14221.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14222.567843750003,"end":14229.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14230.195343750001,"end":14231.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14231.69721875,"end":14235.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14236.97909375,"end":14238.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14239.864718750003,"end":14243.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14244.62346875,"end":14245.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14246.41221875,"end":14246.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14247.829718750003,"end":14249.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14250.10784375,"end":14251.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14252.402843750002,"end":14255.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14255.96346875,"end":14257.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14258.29221875,"end":14259.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14260.82346875,"end":14261.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14262.359093750001,"end":14263.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14263.82721875,"end":14265.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14266.03784375,"end":14267.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14267.860343750002,"end":14270.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14271.37034375,"end":14274.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14275.234718750002,"end":14276.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14276.770343750002,"end":14280.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14281.74846875,"end":14282.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14284.161593750003,"end":14286.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14287.620968750001,"end":14288.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14288.954093750002,"end":14292.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14293.13909375,"end":14293.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14294.286593750003,"end":14303.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14303.31471875,"end":14309.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14309.74409375,"end":14312.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14313.456593750001,"end":14314.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14315.852843750003,"end":14317.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14318.56971875,"end":14319.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14319.902843750002,"end":14322.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14322.484718750002,"end":14326.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14327.648468750001,"end":14328.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14329.57221875,"end":14332.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14334.297218750002,"end":14336.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14337.70596875,"end":14348.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14349.164093750001,"end":14351.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14351.62784375,"end":14353.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14354.243468750003,"end":14358.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14358.64784375,"end":14361.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14362.12409375,"end":14366.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14367.152843750002,"end":14367.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14369.414093750001,"end":14369.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14370.730343750001,"end":14373.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14374.324718750002,"end":14374.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14375.067218750002,"end":14376.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14377.09221875,"end":14378.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14379.67409375,"end":14383.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14383.234718750002,"end":14385.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14386.59284375,"end":14388.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14389.984718750002,"end":14390.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14391.773468750001,"end":14392.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14394.203468750002,"end":14396.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14396.582843750002,"end":14397.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14397.88221875,"end":14399.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14399.65409375,"end":14402.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14403.434093750002,"end":14404.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14405.67846875,"end":14406.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14409.171593750001,"end":14409.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14410.79159375,"end":14411.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14411.871593750002,"end":14413.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14413.64346875,"end":14413.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14414.149718750003,"end":14416.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14417.305343750002,"end":14418.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14426.940968750001,"end":14428.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14428.66221875,"end":14429.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14432.712218750003,"end":14433.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14434.21409375,"end":14435.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14436.25596875,"end":14443.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14443.630343750003,"end":14446.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14447.27534375,"end":14447.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14448.372218750003,"end":14448.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14450.565968750001,"end":14453.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14455.847843750002,"end":14456.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14456.62409375,"end":14457.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14461.19721875,"end":14461.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14463.27284375,"end":14466.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14467.019093750001,"end":14475.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14476.70534375,"end":14479.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14479.28721875,"end":14479.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14480.60346875,"end":14483.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14483.910968750002,"end":14484.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14484.77159375,"end":14485.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14485.56471875,"end":14493.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14494.187843750002,"end":14497.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14498.136593750001,"end":14499.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14499.85784375,"end":14500.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14500.80284375,"end":14504.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14504.34659375,"end":14505.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14505.61221875,"end":14507.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14508.177218750003,"end":14508.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14508.71721875,"end":14509.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14511.012218750002,"end":14511.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14512.14284375,"end":14512.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14513.644718750002,"end":14514.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14514.960968750001,"end":14515.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14517.00284375,"end":14521.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14522.352218750002,"end":14524.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14524.934093750002,"end":14525.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14526.28409375,"end":14527.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14529.01784375,"end":14529.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14529.642218750003,"end":14530.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14531.582843750002,"end":14532.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14533.219718750002,"end":14534.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14535.734093750001,"end":14540.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14540.796593750001,"end":14541.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14542.19721875,"end":14543.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14544.27284375,"end":14545.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14546.247218750003,"end":14547.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14548.660343750002,"end":14551.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14552.609093750001,"end":14553.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14556.50721875,"end":14558.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14559.055343750002,"end":14560.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14561.35034375,"end":14563.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14563.746593750002,"end":14574.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14574.73221875,"end":14574.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14575.305968750003,"end":14585.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14576.993468750003,"end":14577.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14585.70096875,"end":14587.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14588.839718750001,"end":14590.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14590.746593750002,"end":14591.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14591.489093750002,"end":14592.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14593.277843750002,"end":14593.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14594.88096875,"end":14595.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14596.399718750003,"end":14596.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14597.749718750001,"end":14598.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14598.74534375,"end":14599.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14600.88846875,"end":14603.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14603.74034375,"end":14605.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14605.84971875,"end":14606.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14606.609093750001,"end":14611.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14612.59971875,"end":14613.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14614.35471875,"end":14616.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14616.34596875,"end":14616.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14617.324718750002,"end":14618.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14618.20221875,"end":14621.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14621.965343750002,"end":14624.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14622.37034375,"end":14622.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14622.47159375,"end":14623.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14623.19721875,"end":14623.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14627.989718750003,"end":14644.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14645.050343750001,"end":14648.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14648.52659375,"end":14658.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14659.00596875,"end":14666.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14666.633468750002,"end":14675.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14676.218468750001,"end":14678.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14679.542843750001,"end":14687.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14688.199718750002,"end":14689.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14690.22471875,"end":14694.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14695.320968750002,"end":14701.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14702.003468750001,"end":14703.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14704.61909375,"end":14706.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14707.335968750001,"end":14708.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14708.922218750002,"end":14711.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14712.617843750002,"end":14717.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14718.405968750001,"end":14719.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14720.532218750002,"end":14723.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14724.683468750001,"end":14726.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14727.04596875,"end":14731.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14732.41221875,"end":14734.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14735.078468750002,"end":14742.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14743.33034375,"end":14745.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14745.777218750001,"end":14749.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14750.24909375,"end":14752.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14753.219093750002,"end":14762.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14764.17096875,"end":14764.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14765.402843750002,"end":14765.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14766.90471875,"end":14767.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14768.980343750001,"end":14769.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14769.689093750003,"end":14770.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14770.49909375,"end":14785.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14785.973468750002,"end":14791.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14792.84159375,"end":14796.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14797.39784375,"end":14798.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14799.726593750001,"end":14800.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14801.414093750001,"end":14803.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14804.62034375,"end":14818.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14820.28034375,"end":14820.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14821.07346875,"end":14823.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14824.00971875,"end":14825.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14825.832218750002,"end":14829.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14829.899093750002,"end":14830.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14830.911593750003,"end":14831.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14832.750968750002,"end":14832.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14833.172843750002,"end":14834.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14835.41721875,"end":14837.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14837.72909375,"end":14838.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14839.36596875,"end":14843.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14843.21346875,"end":14845.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14845.609718750002,"end":14846.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14846.58846875,"end":14848.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14848.984718750002,"end":14850.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14850.621593750002,"end":14858.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14859.39659375,"end":14859.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14861.18534375,"end":14902.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14899.69409375,"end":14905.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14906.376593750003,"end":14918.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14919.134093750003,"end":14919.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14919.15096875,"end":14933.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14919.184718750003,"end":14921.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14923.04909375,"end":14923.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14924.73659375,"end":14925.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14929.461593750002,"end":14929.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14933.96721875,"end":14934.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14934.034718750001,"end":14943.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14939.232218750003,"end":14939.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14944.058468750001,"end":14945.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14946.134093750003,"end":14946.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14947.770968750003,"end":14957.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14958.28409375,"end":14961.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14962.38471875,"end":14974.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14974.247843750003,"end":14999.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14995.577843750001,"end":14996.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14999.40846875,"end":14999.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14999.594093750002,"end":15017.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14999.89784375,"end":15000.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15000.977843750003,"end":15008.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15012.874718750001,"end":15016.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15016.03034375,"end":15017.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15017.17784375,"end":15019.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15018.86534375,"end":15022.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15019.641593750002,"end":15025.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15033.25971875,"end":15034.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15035.082218750002,"end":15035.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15040.54971875,"end":15064.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15065.54159375,"end":15069.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15067.81971875,"end":15077.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15077.387843750003,"end":15078.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15078.36659375,"end":15082.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15079.78409375,"end":15080.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15082.028468750003,"end":15097.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15083.327843750001,"end":15083.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15099.156593750002,"end":15110.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15103.13909375,"end":15104.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15108.758468750002,"end":15157.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15160.98659375,"end":15172.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15173.06909375,"end":15178.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15176.579093750002,"end":15177.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15178.23284375,"end":15181.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15181.439093750003,"end":15198.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15199.27596875,"end":15230.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15223.91346875,"end":15224.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15230.477843750003,"end":15230.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15230.54534375,"end":15232.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15232.992218750001,"end":15256.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15258.70971875,"end":15261.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15261.595343750003,"end":15281.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15281.946593750003,"end":15347.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15347.961593750002,"end":15365.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15366.23721875,"end":15393.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15382.21784375,"end":15382.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15382.42034375,"end":15382.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15382.977218750002,"end":15383.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15393.60846875,"end":15399.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15393.65909375,"end":15395.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15395.734718750002,"end":15395.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15399.261593750001,"end":15413.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15401.57346875,"end":15402.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15419.005343750003,"end":15420.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15420.524093750002,"end":15420.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15421.047218750002,"end":15422.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15428.067218750002,"end":15428.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15428.94471875,"end":15432.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15432.825968750003,"end":15433.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15433.58534375,"end":15439.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15439.238468750002,"end":15439.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15439.305968750003,"end":15439.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15439.54221875,"end":15451.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15445.70159375,"end":15446.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15453.04221875,"end":15454.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15454.274093750002,"end":15455.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15456.231593750003,"end":15457.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15457.800968750002,"end":15464.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15458.324093750001,"end":15458.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15464.63534375,"end":15470.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15469.394093750001,"end":15473.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15473.207843750002,"end":15473.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15473.427218750003,"end":15473.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15473.91659375,"end":15474.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15475.536593750003,"end":15480.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15481.40909375,"end":15483.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15484.61534375,"end":15486.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15487.58534375,"end":15496.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15492.597218750001,"end":15493.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15494.95971875,"end":15499.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15499.954718750003,"end":15504.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15504.966593750003,"end":15510.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15510.94034375,"end":15512.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15512.543468750002,"end":15527.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15527.91659375,"end":15529.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15529.519718750002,"end":15530.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15530.97096875,"end":15531.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15532.422218750002,"end":15546.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15536.860343750002,"end":15537.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15537.231593750003,"end":15537.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15543.57659375,"end":15550.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15550.579718750003,"end":15553.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15554.680343750002,"end":15567.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15563.185343750003,"end":15564.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15566.05409375,"end":15573.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15568.26471875,"end":15568.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15573.495968750001,"end":15578.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15580.414718750002,"end":15583.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15584.835968750001,"end":15594.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15595.382843750001,"end":15602.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15602.79096875,"end":15608.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15603.263468750003,"end":15604.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15609.945968750002,"end":15614.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15615.177218750003,"end":15620.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15621.30284375,"end":15630.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15627.512843750003,"end":15631.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15630.95534375,"end":15631.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15631.579718750003,"end":15640.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15641.265968750002,"end":15643.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15644.016593750002,"end":15646.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15647.25659375,"end":15648.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15649.332218750002,"end":15656.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15657.65159375,"end":15662.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15663.38909375,"end":15667.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15667.017218750003,"end":15689.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15689.781593750002,"end":15703.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15704.513468750003,"end":15717.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15711.719093750002,"end":15713.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15715.515968750002,"end":15717.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15717.96284375,"end":15719.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15720.375968750002,"end":15735.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15735.597218750001,"end":15740.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15740.524718750003,"end":15755.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15756.15096875,"end":15760.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15761.63534375,"end":15765.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15763.727843750003,"end":15763.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15763.74471875,"end":15764.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15764.031593750002,"end":15774.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15779.03346875,"end":15779.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15779.320343750001,"end":15780.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15781.277843750002,"end":15781.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15781.88534375,"end":15783.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15787.26846875,"end":15803.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15803.957843750002,"end":15817.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15817.49159375,"end":15820.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15820.74846875,"end":15825.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15826.469093750002,"end":15841.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15827.92034375,"end":15827.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15835.497218750003,"end":15836.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15838.804718750001,"end":15839.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15840.47534375,"end":15847.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15846.685343750003,"end":15846.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15847.07346875,"end":15847.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15847.292843750001,"end":15848.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15847.782218750002,"end":15852.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15850.17846875,"end":15850.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15851.528468750003,"end":15870.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15870.782843750003,"end":15877.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15878.49471875,"end":15881.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15881.71784375,"end":15882.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15882.409718750001,"end":15893.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15890.03721875,"end":15890.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15892.16346875,"end":15898.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15898.96409375,"end":15900.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15900.17909375,"end":15906.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15906.169718750003,"end":15906.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15907.047218750002,"end":15913.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15913.442843750003,"end":15915.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15915.855968750002,"end":15947.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15929.895968750003,"end":15929.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15929.91284375,"end":15930.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15930.149093750002,"end":15930.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15930.216593750003,"end":15930.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15931.60034375,"end":15931.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15931.634093750003,"end":15931.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15947.969093750002,"end":15950.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15950.972843750002,"end":15952.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15952.17096875,"end":15952.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15952.84596875,"end":15962.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15962.65034375,"end":15985.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":15979.238468750002,"end":15979.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15979.255343750003,"end":15979.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15979.27221875,"end":15980.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15985.00971875,"end":15991.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15992.940968750001,"end":16001.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16001.42909375,"end":16006.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16006.761593750001,"end":16007.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16008.01034375,"end":16009.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16010.136593750001,"end":16010.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16010.946593750003,"end":16016.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16017.51096875,"end":16018.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16018.911593750003,"end":16019.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16019.60346875,"end":16020.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16021.071593750003,"end":16022.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16023.434093750002,"end":16026.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16025.30721875,"end":16040.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16041.55784375,"end":16042.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16042.485968750003,"end":16046.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16046.789093750001,"end":16049.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16047.261593750001,"end":16049.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16049.590343750002,"end":16054.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16055.05784375,"end":16055.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16055.918468750002,"end":16067.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16068.152843750002,"end":16072.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16073.114093750002,"end":16081.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16078.767218750003,"end":16080.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16081.04534375,"end":16082.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16082.918468750002,"end":16085.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16085.550968750002,"end":16085.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16086.20909375,"end":16087.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16088.31846875,"end":16089.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16090.12409375,"end":16092.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16092.85784375,"end":16099.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16099.439093750003,"end":16099.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16099.844093750002,"end":16099.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16099.87784375,"end":16104.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16100.45159375,"end":16102.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16102.78034375,"end":16108.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16108.99034375,"end":16118.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16115.200343750003,"end":16126.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16121.562218750001,"end":16122.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16122.051593750002,"end":16122.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16122.355343750001,"end":16122.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16122.524093750002,"end":16122.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16122.625343750002,"end":16122.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16122.642218750003,"end":16127.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16126.945343750001,"end":16127.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16127.384093750003,"end":16131.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16131.09659375,"end":16131.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16131.231593750003,"end":16133.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16134.707843750002,"end":16140.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16141.339718750001,"end":16143.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16142.68971875,"end":16148.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16143.921593750001,"end":16144.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":16144.86659375,"end":16144.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16147.634093750003,"end":16148.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16148.258468750002,"end":16148.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16148.29221875,"end":16148.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16148.71409375,"end":16158.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16159.075343750003,"end":16168.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16177.620968750001,"end":16183.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16184.30346875,"end":16185.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16185.737843750001,"end":16188.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16188.657218750002,"end":16190.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16189.73721875,"end":16193.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16193.145968750003,"end":16195.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16195.019093750001,"end":16197.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16197.837218750003,"end":16199.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16200.081593750001,"end":16202.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16202.69721875,"end":16203.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16203.76034375,"end":16205.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16207.523468750001,"end":16208.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16217.277218750001,"end":16222.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16224.938468750002,"end":16225.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16228.836593750002,"end":16234.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16234.962218750003,"end":16237.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16238.25284375,"end":16238.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16238.97846875,"end":16240.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16241.965343750002,"end":16251.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16251.887843750003,"end":16251.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16252.32659375,"end":16252.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16252.562843750002,"end":16252.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16252.96784375,"end":16254.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16254.469718750002,"end":16264.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16256.66346875,"end":16256.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16256.730968750002,"end":16257.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16258.418468750002,"end":16258.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16258.485968750003,"end":16258.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16258.50284375,"end":16258.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16258.87409375,"end":16258.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16265.894093750001,"end":16269.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16270.19721875,"end":16272.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16272.79596875,"end":16273.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16274.48346875,"end":16274.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16274.500343750002,"end":16274.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16274.517218750003,"end":16276.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16276.677218750003,"end":16281.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16281.48659375,"end":16281.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16281.520343750002,"end":16281.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16281.55409375,"end":16281.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16281.992843750002,"end":16284.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16285.28346875,"end":16285.907843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16286.009093750003,"end":16289.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16293.180968750003,"end":16295.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16296.083468750003,"end":16297.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16298.58096875,"end":16298.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16298.597843750002,"end":16299.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16299.47534375,"end":16306.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16307.136593750001,"end":16310.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16310.849093750003,"end":16311.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16311.405968750001,"end":16313.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16314.07221875,"end":16316.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16316.82284375,"end":16317.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16318.56096875,"end":16319.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16320.130343750003,"end":16321.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16321.497218750003,"end":16326.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16328.01096875,"end":16330.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16331.132843750001,"end":16331.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16331.36909375,"end":16331.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16331.85846875,"end":16333.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16334.32221875,"end":16337.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16337.96721875,"end":16338.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16338.203468750002,"end":16338.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16339.23284375,"end":16345.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16346.370968750001,"end":16349.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16349.40846875,"end":16350.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16352.749718750001,"end":16356.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16357.47471875,"end":16358.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16358.605343750001,"end":16358.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16359.60096875,"end":16359.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16359.617843750002,"end":16359.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16359.735968750003,"end":16359.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16359.972218750001,"end":16363.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16363.718468750001,"end":16366.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16368.224093750003,"end":16369.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16370.282843750003,"end":16372.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16372.763468750003,"end":16373.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16374.602843750003,"end":16374.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16374.974093750003,"end":16376.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16376.83034375,"end":16377.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16378.433468750001,"end":16379.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16379.85096875,"end":16381.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16382.129093750002,"end":16383.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16385.35221875,"end":16387.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16388.64284375,"end":16390.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16391.444093750004,"end":16393.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16394.76846875,"end":16399.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16396.54034375,"end":16397.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16398.092843749997,"end":16401.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16404.859718749998,"end":16407.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16406.429093749997,"end":16407.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16407.96471875,"end":16408.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16408.77471875,"end":16412.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16412.28471875,"end":16414.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16414.05659375,"end":16418.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16416.16596875,"end":16417.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16418.224718750003,"end":16419.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16419.96284375,"end":16420.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16420.469093749998,"end":16423.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16424.215343750002,"end":16424.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16424.29971875,"end":16426.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16427.03346875,"end":16428.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16429.294718750003,"end":16430.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16431.015968749998,"end":16432.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16433.969093749998,"end":16434.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16434.694718749997,"end":16435.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16436.71971875,"end":16437.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16438.694093750004,"end":16440.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16440.61784375,"end":16441.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16442.693468750003,"end":16443.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16444.060343750003,"end":16444.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16445.81534375,"end":16446.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16446.65909375,"end":16447.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16447.92471875,"end":16449.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16450.67534375,"end":16453.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16454.43846875,"end":16455.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16456.395968750003,"end":16459.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16459.585343749997,"end":16461.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16461.96471875,"end":16465.592843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16466.38596875,"end":16467.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16468.765343749998,"end":16470.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16471.41471875,"end":16474.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16475.98784375,"end":16477.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16479.312218749998,"end":16481.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16481.69159375,"end":16483.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16483.935968750004,"end":16485.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16486.53471875,"end":16488.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16489.335968749998,"end":16492.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16492.575968750003,"end":16495.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16496.10284375,"end":16499.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16499.005343750003,"end":16500.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16501.18221875,"end":16502.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16503.561593749997,"end":16507.999718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16508.387843750003,"end":16509.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16509.92346875,"end":16511.475968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16511.695343749998,"end":16514.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16516.200968750003,"end":16522.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16522.17471875,"end":16528.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16525.75221875,"end":16526.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16528.047218749998,"end":16531.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16531.270343750002,"end":16533.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16534.257218749997,"end":16539.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16535.303468750004,"end":16536.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16539.37034375,"end":16544.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16544.685968750004,"end":16547.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16547.537843750004,"end":16549.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16549.36034375,"end":16551.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16551.30096875,"end":16558.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16559.09721875,"end":16560.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16560.88596875,"end":16563.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16564.311593749997,"end":16566.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16565.880968750003,"end":16568.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16568.969093749998,"end":16573.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16574.335343749997,"end":16579.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16580.15721875,"end":16583.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16584.39284375,"end":16585.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16587.46409375,"end":16589.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16591.007843749998,"end":16592.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16593.201593750004,"end":16595.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16596.64409375,"end":16598.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16599.934718750003,"end":16603.124093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16603.562843749998,"end":16605.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16606.11096875,"end":16608.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16609.70534375,"end":16611.139718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16611.426593750002,"end":16614.514718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16614.68346875,"end":16616.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16617.09659375,"end":16618.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16619.42534375,"end":16625.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16622.59784375,"end":16623.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16628.132843749998,"end":16630.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16632.419093750003,"end":16637.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16637.75159375,"end":16643.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16643.33721875,"end":16645.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16645.98659375,"end":16648.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16648.51784375,"end":16650.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16650.357218750003,"end":16652.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16652.85471875,"end":16656.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16657.005968750003,"end":16659.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16659.942218750002,"end":16661.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16662.372218750003,"end":16664.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16664.85284375,"end":16666.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16666.99596875,"end":16668.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16669.29096875,"end":16671.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16672.092218750004,"end":16676.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16676.732843750004,"end":16679.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16679.601593749998,"end":16682.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16682.875343749998,"end":16682.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16682.959718750004,"end":16683.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16683.02721875,"end":16683.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16683.246593750002,"end":16683.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16683.31409375,"end":16683.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16683.33096875,"end":16683.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16683.34784375,"end":16683.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16683.364718750003,"end":16683.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16683.668468750002,"end":16683.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16683.685343750003,"end":16683.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16683.73596875,"end":16684.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16684.005968750003,"end":16684.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16684.022843749997,"end":16684.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16684.410968750002,"end":16685.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16684.47846875,"end":16684.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16684.90034375,"end":16692.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16692.527843750002,"end":16697.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16706.787218750003,"end":16709.757218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16710.263468750003,"end":16711.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16716.03471875,"end":16718.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16718.97096875,"end":16743.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16743.709718750004,"end":16785.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16786.70721875,"end":16837.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16837.129718750002,"end":16867.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16869.445343749998,"end":16885.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16886.725343750004,"end":16914.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16914.63659375,"end":16993.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16984.97159375,"end":16985.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16985.967218750004,"end":16986.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16986.45659375,"end":16987.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16989.021593750003,"end":16989.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16989.122843750003,"end":16989.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16989.156593749998,"end":16989.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16991.38409375,"end":16992.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16993.139093750004,"end":17000.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17001.12096875,"end":17001.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17003.449718750002,"end":17011.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17013.86159375,"end":17013.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17013.912218750003,"end":17034.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17036.20409375,"end":17037.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17037.975968749997,"end":17049.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17049.990968750004,"end":17059.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17059.94721875,"end":17066.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17066.967218750004,"end":17086.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17086.62659375,"end":17090.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17097.224093750003,"end":17099.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17100.76784375,"end":17101.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17101.93221875,"end":17105.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17105.39159375,"end":17108.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17108.496593750002,"end":17116.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17116.934093750002,"end":17128.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17129.35409375,"end":17130.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17131.412843750004,"end":17141.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17142.43221875,"end":17144.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17144.64284375,"end":17146.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17147.747843750003,"end":17163.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17163.74534375,"end":17166.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17166.765968749998,"end":17176.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17176.60409375,"end":17178.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17179.169093750003,"end":17193.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17193.614093750002,"end":17195.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17196.55034375,"end":17201.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17202.152843750002,"end":17204.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17207.60346875,"end":17212.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17213.273468749998,"end":17218.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17218.80846875,"end":17219.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17220.37784375,"end":17221.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17221.812218749998,"end":17231.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17231.66721875,"end":17246.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17247.17534375,"end":17257.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17257.992218749998,"end":17259.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17259.59534375,"end":17268.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17268.91034375,"end":17283.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17283.77721875,"end":17293.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17294.29034375,"end":17295.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17295.505343750003,"end":17305.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17305.37721875,"end":17308.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17309.342843749997,"end":17318.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17319.670343750004,"end":17324.108468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17324.68221875,"end":17352.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":17352.52596875,"end":17353.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17353.69034375,"end":17353.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17354.500343749998,"end":17368.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17368.692218750002,"end":17370.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17371.00409375,"end":17380.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17381.280968749998,"end":17389.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17390.022218750004,"end":17392.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17392.249718749998,"end":17395.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17396.265968749998,"end":17397.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17397.919718750003,"end":17409.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17409.66471875,"end":17413.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17413.208468750003,"end":17419.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17419.958468750003,"end":17423.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17424.43034375,"end":17445.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17445.54096875,"end":17455.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17456.037218750003,"end":17466.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17466.73596875,"end":17475.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17475.527843750002,"end":17482.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17482.36221875,"end":17485.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17486.80034375,"end":17488.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17488.97721875,"end":17489.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17489.145968750003,"end":17499.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17500.334093750003,"end":17504.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17504.974718750003,"end":17511.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17511.522218750004,"end":17521.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17521.967843749997,"end":17542.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17543.43284375,"end":17549.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17550.435968750004,"end":17562.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17562.53534375,"end":17567.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17568.50909375,"end":17569.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17570.71971875,"end":17572.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17574.11159375,"end":17584.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17585.434718750003,"end":17596.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17596.47096875,"end":17602.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17602.46159375,"end":17606.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17607.01784375,"end":17607.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17607.085343749997,"end":17607.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17609.12721875,"end":17609.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17612.06346875,"end":17615.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17615.87721875,"end":17619.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":17618.661593750003,"end":17619.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":17619.97784375,"end":17620.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17620.129718750002,"end":17621.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":17621.547218749998,"end":17626.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17626.96409375,"end":17629.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17630.153468750003,"end":17639.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17640.22784375,"end":17653.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17653.74471875,"end":17687.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":17675.091593750003,"end":17675.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17675.125343749998,"end":17675.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17675.17596875,"end":17675.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":17675.209718750004,"end":17675.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17675.310968750004,"end":17675.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17688.203468749998,"end":17688.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":17689.654718750004,"end":17720.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17723.286593750003,"end":17726.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17729.108468749997,"end":17729.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17729.969093749998,"end":17744.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17744.66721875,"end":17765.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17765.474093750003,"end":17770.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17771.599718750003,"end":17776.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17776.40909375,"end":17777.202218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17777.97846875,"end":17779.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17779.96971875,"end":17783.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17783.46284375,"end":17793.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17794.094093749998,"end":17796.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17796.96284375,"end":17797.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17797.50284375,"end":17798.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17799.30846875,"end":17809.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17809.551593750002,"end":17811.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17811.762218750002,"end":17815.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17815.86284375,"end":17820.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17820.874718749998,"end":17823.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17823.42284375,"end":17824.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17825.24534375,"end":17826.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17827.185968750004,"end":17836.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17836.43346875,"end":17838.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17838.28971875,"end":17869.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17869.474718750003,"end":17881.725968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17880.865343750003,"end":17881.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":17882.974718750003,"end":17883.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17884.358468749997,"end":17884.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17884.375343749998,"end":17887.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17889.960968749998,"end":17889.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17889.97784375,"end":17909.249093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17909.31659375,"end":17911.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17911.037843750004,"end":17911.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17911.965968750003,"end":17912.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17912.03346875,"end":17914.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17914.48034375,"end":17918.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17919.00284375,"end":17930.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":17930.967218750004,"end":17943.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17943.03284375,"end":17946.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":17947.04909375,"end":17951.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17951.031593749998,"end":17957.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17958.52409375,"end":17959.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17960.414093749998,"end":17962.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17963.147843749997,"end":17964.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17965.10534375,"end":17967.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17968.109093749998,"end":17968.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17969.999093749997,"end":17971.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17972.14221875,"end":17973.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17976.327218749997,"end":17977.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17977.795343750004,"end":17980.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17981.288468749997,"end":17982.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17982.419093750003,"end":17983.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17983.887218750002,"end":17988.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17989.33784375,"end":17993.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17994.130343750003,"end":17996.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17996.965343750002,"end":18000.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18001.36971875,"end":18005.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18006.077843749998,"end":18009.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18010.819718749997,"end":18012.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18012.270968750003,"end":18013.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18014.819093750004,"end":18016.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18016.793468750002,"end":18016.827218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18018.75096875,"end":18023.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18019.07159375,"end":18019.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18024.48846875,"end":18028.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18028.45409375,"end":18028.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18030.428468750004,"end":18039.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18041.481593750003,"end":18052.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18052.50096875,"end":18091.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18091.178468750004,"end":18093.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18092.61284375,"end":18092.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18092.950343750003,"end":18092.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18096.07221875,"end":18099.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18098.50221875,"end":18098.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18098.51909375,"end":18102.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18102.73784375,"end":18109.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18105.623468750004,"end":18105.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18105.65721875,"end":18105.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18105.69096875,"end":18106.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18106.146593750003,"end":18106.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18106.247843750003,"end":18107.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18107.90159375,"end":18108.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18108.779093750003,"end":18108.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18108.981593750003,"end":18109.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18109.26846875,"end":18109.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18109.319093750004,"end":18110.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18109.48784375,"end":18109.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18109.521593750003,"end":18109.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18109.58909375,"end":18109.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18109.639718749997,"end":18109.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18109.656593749998,"end":18109.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18109.77471875,"end":18110.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18110.162843750004,"end":18110.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18111.56346875,"end":18111.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18111.81659375,"end":18111.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18111.90096875,"end":18112.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18112.00221875,"end":18115.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18114.11159375,"end":18114.280343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18114.280343749997,"end":18114.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18114.33096875,"end":18114.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18115.79909375,"end":18118.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18116.76096875,"end":18118.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18118.00971875,"end":18118.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18118.21221875,"end":18120.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18120.55784375,"end":18123.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18120.692843750003,"end":18120.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18120.709718750004,"end":18120.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18120.76034375,"end":18120.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18120.794093750003,"end":18123.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18123.30846875,"end":18153.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18124.185968750004,"end":18124.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18124.25346875,"end":18124.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18124.65846875,"end":18124.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18124.74284375,"end":18124.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18124.86096875,"end":18124.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18124.87784375,"end":18125.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18125.046593749998,"end":18125.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18125.28284375,"end":18125.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18125.772218750004,"end":18125.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":18125.856593750003,"end":18125.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":18125.957843750002,"end":18125.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18125.974718750003,"end":18126.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":18126.02534375,"end":18126.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18153.86909375,"end":18166.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18167.16659375,"end":18178.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18178.57409375,"end":18178.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18178.607843750004,"end":18179.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18179.41784375,"end":18179.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18179.434718750003,"end":18181.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18181.881593750004,"end":18181.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18181.965968750003,"end":18182.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18182.100968749997,"end":18183.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18182.202218749997,"end":18183.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18183.164093749998,"end":18184.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18184.075343750003,"end":18193.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":18184.109093749998,"end":18184.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18193.93034375,"end":18204.139718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18203.717843749997,"end":18208.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18208.72971875,"end":18209.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18210.28221875,"end":18215.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18215.90159375,"end":18218.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18218.804093749997,"end":18220.170968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18220.20471875,"end":18222.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18223.005968750003,"end":18235.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18235.476593749998,"end":18236.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18237.248468750004,"end":18237.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18238.86846875,"end":18242.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18243.62721875,"end":18255.186593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18255.186593749997,"end":18255.507218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18255.507218749997,"end":18255.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18255.96284375,"end":18256.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18256.452218749997,"end":18256.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18256.68846875,"end":18258.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18258.949718750002,"end":18259.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18259.55721875,"end":18259.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18259.75971875,"end":18270.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18270.64409375,"end":18274.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18281.79846875,"end":18304.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18305.01846875,"end":18317.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18318.38346875,"end":18329.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18329.301593750002,"end":18337.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18337.047218749998,"end":18356.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18357.11159375,"end":18359.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18358.91721875,"end":18362.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18362.57909375,"end":18362.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18362.59596875,"end":18363.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18363.96284375,"end":18364.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18364.60409375,"end":18365.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18365.34659375,"end":18365.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18365.937218749998,"end":18365.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18365.95409375,"end":18365.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18365.97096875,"end":18366.561593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18366.561593749997,"end":18366.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18367.65846875,"end":18374.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18374.020343750002,"end":18374.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18374.965343750002,"end":18376.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18376.669718750003,"end":18376.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18376.93971875,"end":18377.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18376.95659375,"end":18383.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18377.969093749998,"end":18378.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18378.28971875,"end":18378.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18378.340343750002,"end":18378.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18379.437218749998,"end":18379.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18379.504718750002,"end":18379.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18379.57221875,"end":18380.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18380.11221875,"end":18380.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18380.348468750002,"end":18380.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18380.365343750003,"end":18380.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18383.976593749998,"end":18384.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18385.25909375,"end":18385.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18385.27596875,"end":18386.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18386.00159375,"end":18387.233468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18388.094093749998,"end":18388.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18388.11096875,"end":18388.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18388.12784375,"end":18388.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18388.14471875,"end":18389.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18388.262843750003,"end":18388.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18388.364093750002,"end":18389.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18389.57909375,"end":18389.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18389.91659375,"end":18401.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18390.54096875,"end":18392.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18392.86971875,"end":18392.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18394.01721875,"end":18394.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18397.679093749997,"end":18397.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18397.982843750004,"end":18398.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18398.01659375,"end":18398.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":18398.084093750003,"end":18398.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":18398.11784375,"end":18398.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18401.91471875,"end":18405.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18410.639093750004,"end":18433.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":18419.44784375,"end":18419.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18433.656593749998,"end":18443.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18444.186593749997,"end":18467.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18467.86221875,"end":18470.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18471.67596875,"end":18473.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18474.139718749997,"end":18508.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18508.46346875,"end":18510.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18511.41659375,"end":18547.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18547.36034375,"end":18559.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18559.965968750003,"end":18565.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":18566.04096875,"end":18566.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18568.89284375,"end":18570.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18570.56346875,"end":18573.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":18570.934718750003,"end":18571.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18573.567218750002,"end":18573.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18573.97221875,"end":18587.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18587.03346875,"end":18588.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18588.974093750003,"end":18590.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18590.037218750003,"end":18595.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18595.234718749998,"end":18596.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18596.027843750002,"end":18597.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18597.225968749997,"end":18599.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18599.89221875,"end":18603.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18603.030968749998,"end":18610.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18610.945343749998,"end":18611.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18611.29971875,"end":18611.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18611.654093750003,"end":18612.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18612.02534375,"end":18612.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18612.059093750002,"end":18613.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18613.037843750004,"end":18613.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18613.72971875,"end":18617.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18617.594093749998,"end":18622.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18625.72784375,"end":18632.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18632.764718749997,"end":18634.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18634.40159375,"end":18645.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18645.89346875,"end":18647.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18647.90159375,"end":18650.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18650.95596875,"end":18667.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18667.52721875,"end":18669.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18669.332843750002,"end":18670.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18670.952843749998,"end":18671.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18671.779718750004,"end":18673.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18674.14221875,"end":18678.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18678.765968749998,"end":18690.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18691.25346875,"end":18695.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18695.708468750003,"end":18698.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18698.83034375,"end":18706.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18706.778468750003,"end":18719.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18719.552843750003,"end":18720.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18720.66659375,"end":18722.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18722.944718749997,"end":18743.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18743.515343749998,"end":18744.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18745.13534375,"end":18753.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18753.387218750002,"end":18754.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18754.973468750002,"end":18757.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18759.68159375,"end":18760.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18760.559093750002,"end":18762.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18763.090343750002,"end":18763.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18763.15784375,"end":18763.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18765.351593749998,"end":18774.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18775.08846875,"end":18796.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18796.58721875,"end":18796.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18796.72221875,"end":18797.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18800.535968750002,"end":18881.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18881.890343749998,"end":18886.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18886.514093750004,"end":18887.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18888.100343750004,"end":18896.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18896.99346875,"end":18898.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18898.69784375,"end":18907.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18910.49346875,"end":18912.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18913.14284375,"end":18919.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18920.51721875,"end":18923.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18925.57971875,"end":18931.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18932.380343750003,"end":18936.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18937.864718750003,"end":18938.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18939.70409375,"end":18940.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18940.497218750003,"end":18941.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18940.66596875,"end":18953.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18945.44159375,"end":18945.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18945.72846875,"end":18945.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18948.209093750003,"end":18952.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18952.664093749998,"end":18953.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18953.271593750003,"end":18954.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18953.33909375,"end":18953.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18953.811593750004,"end":18953.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18954.115343750003,"end":18954.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18954.115343750003,"end":18954.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18954.30096875,"end":18956.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":18954.79034375,"end":18954.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18957.25409375,"end":18970.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18971.59784375,"end":18977.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18977.47034375,"end":18984.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18988.87784375,"end":18992.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18993.63659375,"end":18999.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18999.12096875,"end":18999.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19002.023468749998,"end":19020.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19020.687218749998,"end":19023.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19023.03284375,"end":19025.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19025.80034375,"end":19032.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":19039.469093749998,"end":19039.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19039.80659375,"end":19040.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19048.919093750003,"end":19050.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19048.98659375,"end":19050.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19050.15096875,"end":19050.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19050.33659375,"end":19050.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19050.55596875,"end":19050.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19050.57284375,"end":19050.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19050.75846875,"end":19052.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19050.842843750004,"end":19053.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":19052.14221875,"end":19052.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19053.96471875,"end":19054.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19054.28534375,"end":19054.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19054.504718750002,"end":19057.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19055.73659375,"end":19057.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19057.997843750003,"end":19058.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19058.419718750003,"end":19058.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19058.453468749998,"end":19058.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19058.67284375,"end":19062.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19062.739718750003,"end":19062.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19062.874718749998,"end":19066.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19066.857218750003,"end":19070.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":19071.936593750004,"end":19074.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19074.19784375,"end":19074.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19074.21471875,"end":19074.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19074.28221875,"end":19074.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19074.771593750003,"end":19079.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19074.788468749997,"end":19075.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19079.27721875,"end":19080.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19080.492218749998,"end":19080.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19080.93096875,"end":19081.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19082.145968750003,"end":19084.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19085.335343749997,"end":19088.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19088.84534375,"end":19092.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19093.68846875,"end":19093.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19093.975343750004,"end":19097.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19097.552843750003,"end":19132.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19133.58096875,"end":19145.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19145.882843749998,"end":19155.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":19156.34534375,"end":19212.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19225.11096875,"end":19226.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":19257.93284375,"end":19258.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19258.96221875,"end":19259.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19259.73846875,"end":19260.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19267.585343749997,"end":19267.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19267.92284375,"end":19268.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":19268.226593749998,"end":19268.749718749998}],"whisperx":[{"start":286.954,"end":292.375,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":1954.872,"end":1980.641,"text":"蔡其昌等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁�"},{"start":1985.097,"end":2005.675,"text":"好,現在請主任秘書報告委員會出席的人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數好,謝謝因為今日的議程大家有不同的意見所以就是說我們暫時不確定議事錄那過去在財政委員會裡頭其實也有不確定議事錄的這個情況那就繼續開會的一個例子"},{"start":2010.899,"end":2033.097,"text":"等一下聽我講完聽我講完像那個羅明財還是鄭明忠擔任召委的時候曾經發生過這樣的情況那我們的審查報告基本上已經送出去了那是不是還要再確定這個議事錄我覺得也沒有特別大的一個意義最主要是我們今天好好的來開會那現在我們開始開會"},{"start":2037.967,"end":2057.414,"text":"等一下等一下等一下等一下我們現在開始開會齁我請議事人員宣布第6次第6次的那個會議的那個議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月4日星期一9時至22時30分中華民國113年11月6日星期三9時至93分地點766樓大禮堂出席委員、代會員等14人列席委員"},{"start":2067.279,"end":2083.779,"text":"鄭堅才等85人、列席官員113名11月4號星期一財政部部長莊翠穎等113名11月6號星期三財政部部長莊翠穎等主席陳昭紀委員益臻討論事項繼續審查財政收支劃分法二十二案一本院台灣民眾黨黨團以及財政收支劃分法修正草案案"},{"start":2084.159,"end":2112.184,"text":"二、本院國民黨黨團、委員劉明財等23人、委員林思明等20人、委員瞿宇震等16人、委員黃孟凱等22人、委員丁學中等17人、委員羅廷維等19人分別拟據財政收支劃分法部分條人修正草案等7案三、本院委員伍麗華等17人拟據財政收支劃分法第3條條人修正草案四、本院委員陳玉珍等24人、委員鄭振銓等21人分別拟據財政收支劃分法第8條條人修正草案等2案五、本院委員黃建豪等21人拟據財政收支劃分法第8條及第12條條人"},{"start":2113.844,"end":2138.945,"text":"六、本院委員黃宏威等24人擬拒財政收支劃分法第8條、第12條及第30條條人修正草案七、本院委員陳昌明等17人、委員邱振均等19人分別擬拒財政收支劃分法第8條、第12條及第16條之1條人修正草案等2案八、本院委員賴睿洋等16人、委員蔡毅等16人分別擬拒財政收支劃分法第16條之1條人修正草案等2案九、本院委員賴士葆等29人擬拒財政收支劃分法第16條之2"},{"start":2140.146,"end":2168.103,"text":"第37條之二及第38條之二條人修正草案10本院委員賴士寶等20人、委財政收支劃分法第38條之一條人修正草案11本院委員張家俊等27人、委財政收支劃分法第4條、第8條及第12條條人修正草案12本院委員楊雄英等32人、委財政收支劃分法第8條及第37條條人修正草案13本院委員鄭天才等18人、委財政收支劃分法增訂第30條之一及第30條之二條人修正草案主席宣告"},{"start":2168.803,"end":2192.572,"text":"李恩秀委員及高金素美委員修正動議先前向本期表示要撤案就不予宣讀本日國民黨黨、國民黨團委員同意以國民黨黨團的財政收支劃分法修正提案作為討論依據決議一、第三條、第四條、第八條、第十二條、第十六條之一及第三十條條文以及附表一、附表二均保留算用戶處理二、國民黨黨團、委員吳立華等17人、委員賴薇蓉等16人"},{"start":2194.733,"end":2204.021,"text":"委員蔡玉儀等16人分別擬具財政收支劃分法修正草案以上個案審查完畢並按擬具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前需交由黨團協商院會討論時由陳昭吉委員益臻補充說明宣傳筆"},{"start":2208.424,"end":2231.281,"text":"好,請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有意義?那請問各位委員對議事錄?好,民進黨有意義?好,那我們是不是針對著民進黨團在第11屆第2會期的財委會第6次全體委員會的會議一案的審查程序嚴重的違反立法院"},{"start":2233.155,"end":2257.916,"text":"執權形式化那立法院議事規則等如說明下面本次會議審查的結果應屬無效且本次的會議議事錄未依規定記載應不予確定那反對好國民黨反對那是馬委員你反對那好"},{"start":2260.543,"end":2281.351,"text":"好那顯然就是國民黨跟民進黨的兩兆的這個意見是不同的那我們現在就是表決我們進入表決好來我們來表決就是民進黨民進黨的這個提案來請問贊成的請舉手"},{"start":2288.598,"end":2293.959,"text":"我們針對的對贊成請舉手本委員會的齁贊成的齁贊成的對贊成那個我們民進黨對贊成的是5票反對的請舉手"},{"start":2318.067,"end":2338.484,"text":"本委員會的本委員會的同仁是好反對的是7票那我們的好那我們就是確定這個議事錄那個第6次的議事錄那就是我們就是"},{"start":2339.798,"end":2345.861,"text":"第6次的議事錄有沒有意義?"},{"start":2368.276,"end":2381.768,"text":"主席在這裡再補宣告我們的這一個提案是民進黨的提案是沒有通過的是沒有通過的那我們就繼續確定第6次議案"},{"start":2382.308,"end":2406.198,"text":"一、議事錄第6次議事錄確定不要急不要急這個有協商過了大家就順著走因為最重要就是要開會是要開會好那我們的第6次議事錄是確定的是確定的那是不是我們繼續就是第7次的那個宣讀第7次的那個會議議事錄宣讀"},{"start":2408.46,"end":2432.968,"text":"請先讀啊立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議事錄時間中華民國113年11月11日星期一9時至17時30分地點清泉路9樓大禮堂出席人林德武等14人、列席委員黃國昌等27人、列席官員行政院常務副秘書長李國興、行政院主席總署主席長陳淑芝、審計部審計長陳若敏、行政院人事總署人事長蘇俊榮"},{"start":2433.968,"end":2460.493,"text":"等主席賴昭景委員會員討論事項一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總議事案有關主計總署暨審計部審計部台北市審計處審計部新北市審計處審計部桃園市審計處審計部台中市審計處審計部台南市審計處審計部高雄市審計處二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總議事案有關直轄市及縣市政府調整軍工價人員待遇準備災害準備金、第二預備金其他事項針對"},{"start":2462.213,"end":2480.844,"text":"案有針對本院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議一案之審查程序嚴重違反立法院執行刑事法、立法院議事規則等如說明本次會議審查結果應屬無效且本次會議議事錄位於規定記載應不已確定說明依法案之審查依據立法院執行刑事法第9條第二項規則宣讀完畢請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有異議"},{"start":2490.803,"end":2502.474,"text":"請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有異議第7次的沒有異議那就是議事錄確定那就是請議事人員先讀今日的議程"},{"start":2512.784,"end":2531.762,"text":"討論事項：一、審查《貨物稅條例》11案：一、行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴慧仁等18人分別擬據《貨物稅條例》第12條條例修正草案等9案"},{"start":2532.503,"end":2557.561,"text":"二、本院委員顏寬恩等16人以據以貨物稅條例第12條及第12條之3條人修正查案三、本院委員郭國仁等16人以據以貨物稅條例第12條及第12條之6條人修正查案二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位稅率預算部分三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心稅出預算部分四、"},{"start":2558.682,"end":2567.244,"text":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算、非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金、中央政府債務基金宣討完畢好 謝謝首先我先介紹我們在場的委員第一位我們介紹李坤城委員吳秉瑞委員"},{"start":2588.68,"end":2612.144,"text":"王世堅委員吳立華委員吳思瑤委員郭國文委員謝謝那我們介紹今天議會的官員齁那我們首先我們的財政部部長莊部長綜合規劃師李司長國際財政司丁司長"},{"start":2619.181,"end":2634.684,"text":"推動促參司張司長人事處張處長會計處李處長統計處蔡處長政風處許處長法治處我們的姚處長秘書處我們的楊處長資訊小組余主任國庫署陳署長"},{"start":2649.608,"end":2676.239,"text":"負稅署宋署長、關務署彭署長、國有財產署我們的曾署長、財政資訊中心張主任、財新人員信念所許所長接著介紹臺北國稅局吳局長、高雄國稅局翁局長、北區國稅局李局長、"},{"start":2677.796,"end":2706.311,"text":"中區國稅局我們的樓局長南區國稅局李局長接著介紹台灣金控國營有限公司林董事長還有我們四總經理台灣銀行我們的吳總經理台灣人壽、台銀人壽、台銀人壽保險公司張董事長"},{"start":2709.059,"end":2732.91,"text":"劉總經理臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司徐董事長臺�"},{"start":2739.468,"end":2750.491,"text":"趙鋒金控我們的董瑞斌董董事長我們的蕭總經理趙鋒國際商業銀行我們的黃永珍黃總經理第一金控我們的邱董事長還有方總經理"},{"start":2767.642,"end":2795.292,"text":"然後第一商業銀行我們的李嘉祥李總經理華蘭金控陳董事長還有我們的李總經理還有我們華蘭商業銀行我們的黃總經理合作金庫金融金控董事長林董事長還有我們的蘇總經理"},{"start":2798.328,"end":2826.763,"text":"那合作金庫我們的王總經理張華銀行胡董事長周總經理台灣中小企業銀行我們的劉佩珍劉董事長李總經理那接著介紹中國輸出入銀行我們的理事主席、代理事主席那我們的謝總經理"},{"start":2830.595,"end":2858.673,"text":"介紹我們的台灣煙酒股份有限公司我們的湯董事長、湯祺安董事長還有我們的賴總經理財政部印刷廠王廠長接著我們再介紹官貿網路協會那個我們的張董事長還有高總經理"},{"start":2861.072,"end":2887.303,"text":"中央債保險股份有限公司李董事、李一芬董事全序部我們檢任計和蔡兵士交通部公共運輸及監理師檢任計政王基洲檢任計政衛福部我們的社家屬我們的游組長"},{"start":2890.986,"end":2913.942,"text":"經濟部產花署我們的副署長、周副署長環境部大氣環境司檢任計政、李檢任計政行政院主計總處我們的黃專門委員法務部法治司、調部辦司檢察官、楊檢察官"},{"start":2916.769,"end":2944.888,"text":"好,接著我們來補介紹那個在場的國民黨的委員那那個陳一貞、陳昭偉好,羅明財、羅委員顏寬恆、顏委員賴士寶、賴委員還有王宏威、王委員那也介紹我們的林德虎、林委員還有介紹陳清輝、陳委員"},{"start":2947.452,"end":2950.587,"text":"好,再補介紹我們的蔡議員、蔡委員"},{"start":2956.213,"end":2969.279,"text":"委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳慶輝等16人及委員賴慧妍等18人分別擬據《貨物稅條例》第12條條文修正草案第9案"},{"start":2984.005,"end":3004.165,"text":"二、委員顏康恆等16人、拟據《貨物稅條例》第12條及第12條之3條文修正草案那第三、委員郭國文等16人、拟據《貨物稅條例》第12條及第12條之6條文修正草案"},{"start":3005.753,"end":3029.823,"text":"中華民國114年中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位稅入預算部分及財政部國庫署財政資訊中心稅出的預算部分中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算會營業部分有關財政部"},{"start":3031.584,"end":3057.873,"text":"主管債務基金、中央政府債務基金將先請提案黨團代表、委員說明提案要旨之後再請財政部莊部長說明預算內容及提案的要旨並回應黨團委員的提案內容首先我們先請民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊委員說明提案的要旨"},{"start":3058.926,"end":3065.293,"text":"黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員黃珊珊委員不在那我們請賴士寶委員說明提案的要旨賴士寶委員我們一樣都是3分鐘謝謝"},{"start":3079.715,"end":3094.071,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位行政那麼本席針對今天要審的法案貨物稅第12條提出修正那我們看到這個稅法我們財政部老師玩這種把戲都是"},{"start":3095.632,"end":3112.419,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":3120.746,"end":3120.946,"text":"朱鑑林、朱鑑林"},{"start":3135.728,"end":3151.317,"text":"他們早就因應就因應了需要這樣子嗎?如果你要這樣子我都主張乾脆一次到位就不要再說什麼一次到到121年12月31日乾脆就是forever否則的話"},{"start":3152.864,"end":3168.249,"text":"我的提案是把地底盤的公共汽車、天然氣的公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車這些都是比較屬於商業行為的拿掉"},{"start":3169.349,"end":3193.197,"text":"我們希望延長的只是為了我們的身心障礙者所以我的提案只針對身心障礙者的護光巴士給他再延他的免稅減稅、免稅這是我的提案跟財政部的一個很大的不同財政部等很長很長後了事實上我們已經延了這麼多次了"},{"start":3194.457,"end":3215.864,"text":"那應該有的效果都有了啦現在來講的話還在靠這個我們的還要再靠我們的貨物稅降稅啊我覺得在商言商啊其實是沒有必要的我們就是我的焦點就是希望照顧弱勢團體而不是照顧一般的業者好不好請各位指教與支持謝謝"},{"start":3220.394,"end":3222.075,"text":"主席、各位委員貨物稅條例第12條提案說明"},{"start":3248.581,"end":3258.949,"text":"有助於我國已經邁入高齡社會為打造無障礙、友善、高齡長者乘車環境讓身心障礙、行動不便者能夠自立生活"},{"start":3261.444,"end":3277.274,"text":"您延長購買副鋼巴士及符合載運輪椅使用之車輛免徵貨物稅台灣於2018年及正式踏入高齡社會65歲以上老年人口佔人口比例達14.05%"},{"start":3279.736,"end":3307.707,"text":"而國發會預估2025年台灣將會成為超高齡社會老齡人口佔總超過20%那我國人口老化速度是全球之最那隨著高齡人口增加對我國社會經濟等方面的影響也會隨之浮現那需要投入更多資源支持老年醫療保健福利那也將會面臨更多高齡者照顧問題"},{"start":3309.599,"end":3315.682,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員"},{"start":3336.373,"end":3356.807,"text":"提出修法延長復康巴士及符合載運輪椅使用之車輛免徵貨物稅實施期間另外針對第12條之3修正條文為鼓勵民眾購買電動車減少二氧化碳的排放達成台灣2030年碳排減半2050近年碳排的目標緩延續電動車免徵貨物稅以上說明"},{"start":3364.619,"end":3377.711,"text":"好 謝謝那我們接著請郭公委員說明提案要旨郭公委員、郭公委員、郭公委員不在那請張智倫委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":3379.685,"end":3399.695,"text":"張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在那請蔡其昌委員說明提案要旨蔡其昌委員、蔡其昌委員、蔡其昌委員不在那請陳冠廷委員說明提案要旨陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在那我們接著請陳慶惠委員說明提案要旨"},{"start":3411.538,"end":3432.317,"text":"謝謝主席、各位委員、各位官員本則我本身醫療還有社福的背景所以說明提案要指如下在現今的社會呢縱使我們的醫療科技已經非常的創新且進步但是本席針對偏鄉醫療的照顧仍要面對遠近的考驗這件事情還有許多想法"},{"start":3432.677,"end":3451.239,"text":"原因是因為這些偏鄉的醫療就醫可進性還有醫療的量能遠遠不及我們的都市環境2025年是我們台灣即將邁入超高齡社會的deadline伴隨高齡化、身心障礙、長者人數增加的照顧需求政府不只是要跟時間賽跑"},{"start":3452.62,"end":3475.968,"text":"更要在這個僅存的時間內盡速的改善偏鄉地區交通還有就醫不便的情形透過這次的貨物稅法修法將富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限本期希望延長至118年的年底期盼能更縮短偏鄉身障者還有醫療資源的距離持續的建構無障礙友善的環境謝謝"},{"start":3478.997,"end":3485.108,"text":"好 謝謝 那接著我們請民眾黨黨團代表黃珊珊委員說明提案的要旨"},{"start":3494.757,"end":3518.47,"text":"謝謝主席我想為了實現2050年的淨零碳排的目標行政院最重要的戰略其中就是今年起開始推動643億的2030年的客運車量電動化推動計畫除了補助的客運業者購車還納入了維修建置維修保養體系那載客的營運補助還有路網的優化等配套及經費"},{"start":3519.651,"end":3546.749,"text":"但是過去我國為了無障礙跟環保的目標有針對特定公共汽車免徵貨物稅那今年年底相關的負稅又會到期恐怕會影響淨零碳排的政策所以台灣民眾黨提案修正的貨物稅條例將低底盤公車還有非石化能源公車比如說天然氣、電動車、氫能車、油電混合車都列入免稅"},{"start":3547.549,"end":3561.436,"text":"免徵貨物稅優惠延長到2030年打造台灣更高品質、更低汙染的公共運輸服務另外,台灣即將進入超高齡社會長照服務的照顧需求日漸增長"},{"start":3563.937,"end":3589.906,"text":"為了顧及身心障礙者他的舊衣等交通的出行的需求友善無障礙的乘車環境我們也提案延長購買富康巴士免徵貨物稅的期限另外還有近年老舊的遊覽車死傷的事故頻傳我們還有很多上千輛的老舊的大客車不能忽視這些老舊遊覽車的重大安全隱患也希望鼓勵業者負責任能夠加速汰換"},{"start":3590.846,"end":3609.929,"text":"確保國人的生命安全還有觀光旅遊的品質所以我們提納稅者權利保護依照納稅者權利保護法第6條第1項規定希望增訂貨物稅第7項的規定明定自本條文生效日起實施免徵大客車貨物稅5年的計劃以上"},{"start":3611.896,"end":3620.306,"text":"好 謝謝那我們接著請財政部莊部長說明並請部長檢要的那個回應黨團跟委員的提案內容"},{"start":3628.291,"end":3656.949,"text":"主席、各位委員先進大家好貴委員會今天審查114年度本部及所屬稅務預算以及本部還有國庫署以及財政資訊中心的稅出預算以及中央政府債務基金的附屬單位預算那麼我們應邀前來列席報告那麼以下僅就幾個重點為各位報告首先以前年度的施政計畫的實施成果請各位參閱我們的報告附錄一那在114年度的施政計畫的重點"},{"start":3657.93,"end":3684.037,"text":"第1個是健全政府財政、厚植財政能量第2個我們會優化稅制、創新稅政營造優質的負稅環境第3數位創新科技的查緝然後我們提升通關安全以及便捷第4多元運用國家的資產來提升資產活化的效益第5我們運用促參多元的模式擴大公共建設的量能來提升公共服務的品質以及效率"},{"start":3684.517,"end":3701.882,"text":"第6我們會創新資通信科技以及應用然後精進人工智慧的加值效益那在113年度我們主管稅入以及稅出預算的執行情形為各位報告在稅入預算的執行部分本部主管的113年度稅入預算數新台幣2兆3640.29億元到10月底為止累計的實收數是2兆4939億元"},{"start":3711.665,"end":3717.107,"text":"佔分配預算數的116.34%主要是所得稅以及證交稅交預期所收取的數比預期來得高在稅出預算執行的部分本部主管的113年度稅出預算數是1763億那到今年10月底累計執行數是1348.7佔分配預算數的92.83%"},{"start":3738.594,"end":3751.32,"text":"執行情形尚屬正常那在114年度主管稅入還有稅出預算的編列情形在稅入預算編列的部分本部所主管的114年度稅入預算總共編列的是兩兆8198億那麼比113年度的預算數是增加了4558億大約是有19.28%其中稅客收入增加4599億元營業營餘及事業收入增加3.41億"},{"start":3767.748,"end":3786.053,"text":"那麼財產收入是減少45億元規費還有罰賠款以及其他收入是增加了0.37億元請各位參閱我們的報告第4頁到第8頁及第15頁以及付表3在稅出預算的編列情形本部主管的114年度稅出預算總共編列1734億元比113年度減少了29.4億元"},{"start":3792.294,"end":3816.842,"text":"點39億元主要是減少了地方政府的統籌分配稅款減少補助以及新增加的海關再造計劃等等那另外在財政部以及國庫署還有財政資訊中心稅數預算的編列情形我請做概要的報告在財政部的部分我們是編列了134億元主要是依照公教人員保險法第5條的規定對公教人員保險、養老給付還有國庫、增資、中國輸出入銀行"},{"start":3820.283,"end":3834.451,"text":"以及繳納中美洲銀行增資股款在我們國庫署的部分是編列了1143億元主要是國債付息還有經理以及地方政府統籌分配稅款短燒補助撕裂菸品的茶器等作業經費"},{"start":3836.431,"end":3859.35,"text":"在我們財政資訊中心的部分是編列22億元主要是國稅資訊系統的永續發展計畫以及次世代的稅務服務雲端平台建構計畫以及本部的共用資資料中心支援擴充計畫所需的經費在中央政府債務基金業務重點以及預算編列的情形我們編列發行公債或向金融機構舉借6690億"},{"start":3863.073,"end":3881.828,"text":"91億元聯同中央政府總預算會暴露的債務還本收入1415億元那麼合計有8106億元全數支應年度內到期以及未到期的債務還本所需那麼本期的剩餘是201萬餘元以上的報告敬請各位委員會與支持以及指教"},{"start":3882.549,"end":3908.971,"text":"那麼接下來為各位報告的也就是今天貴委員會要審查行政院函請審議的貨物稅條例第12條條文的修正草案以及大院、民眾黨團還有多位委員所凝聚的貨物稅條例的相關條文修正草案等11案請作簡要報告有關行政院函請審議的修正草案我們的修正重點以及效益就是我國將邁向超高齡社會為了鼓勵民眾"},{"start":3909.952,"end":3915.418,"text":"民間的單位捐贈以及營運的單位購買復康巴士以及載運輪椅使用者的車輛那麼照顧身心障礙者以及行動不便的人士行的需求我們延長購買復康巴士以及購買輪椅使用者車輛免徵貨物稅"},{"start":3927.372,"end":3948.36,"text":"的措施延長5年到118年12月31號那麼有力建構一個無障礙友善的乘車環境這是主要的效益那麼第二部分就是配合2030年的客運車輛電動化的推動計畫購買低底盤的公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合電力公共汽車等"},{"start":3949.46,"end":3967.531,"text":"非電動公共汽車免徵貨物稅的措施不再延長實施期間至於電動公共汽車則依現行貨物稅條例第12條之3的規定可以免徵貨物稅那這個部分將有助於達成2050年淨零排放的政策目標"},{"start":3969.056,"end":3992.767,"text":"那麼有關大院民眾黨團以及各委員所提的貨物稅條例相關條文的修正草案我們主要說明如下民眾黨團以及各委員所提案延長購買富康巴士以及載運輪椅使用者車輛免徵貨物稅的意旨和行政院的版本是相同的那麼其中民眾黨團還有張智倫委員等還有賴慧媛委員等以及賴思寶委員等所分"},{"start":3992.807,"end":4022.189,"text":"分別提案延長6年、7年、8年的部分那麼是根據主管機關衛福部以及交通部的評估延長5年可以達成合理的政策目的為了資源的有效利用配置那麼所以我們建議還是延長實施期間是5年另外有關民眾黨團還有張智倫委員等還有蔡其昌委員等陳冠廷委員等以及賴慧媛委員等所提案延長購買公共汽車免徵貨物稅措施的年限部分為了避免"},{"start":4022.509,"end":4042.612,"text":"非電動公共汽車和電動公共汽車同享免稅的優惠那麼會影響到公車全面電動化的政策推動期程所以我們建議公共汽車的免稅優惠所以不宜延長至於電動公共汽車可以依照現行的貨物稅條例第12條之3的規定就可以免增貨物稅了不需要特別的規定"},{"start":4043.573,"end":4054.122,"text":"第三個部分就是民眾黨團所提案新增的輕能公共汽車以及太舊換新15年以上大客車免徵貨物稅以及顏寬恆委員等提案第12條之3的電動公共汽車減免免徵貨物稅措施延長4年到11、8年的12月31號以及郭國委員等16人所提案的第12條之6把"},{"start":4066.192,"end":4095.655,"text":"第4期的大型柴油車納入太舊換新減增貨物稅的範圍由於涉及到新增租稅優惠或者延長租稅優惠的實施期間那麼依由主管機關交通部還有經濟部以及環境部依財政紀律法第6條以及納稅者權力保護法第6條的規定在做通盤的審慎評估它的必要性、可行性以及有效性以上的報告及說明敬請各位委員指教也建議會議支持行政院的版本謝謝"},{"start":4097.016,"end":4098.898,"text":"賴慧卿、賴慧卿、賴慧卿、賴慧卿"},{"start":4116.96,"end":4127.369,"text":"那今日那個上午10點我們10點我們截止花園的一個登記那現在依序登記的一個順序請登記第一位林德虎委員質詢"},{"start":4143.751,"end":4167.347,"text":"謝謝主席是不是請那個財政部莊部長好請莊部長委員好部長你好部長我請教因為對於台美租稅協定的推動時程本席多次也在財委會這個質詢請教部長我想以下有幾個問題想請教部長"},{"start":4169.793,"end":4190.498,"text":"因為第一個就是美國大選川普勝選那參眾兩院席次極有可能是共和黨完全執政那你說財政部會密切聯繫ADTA進展那美國大選後會有進一步的這個"},{"start":4193.019,"end":4200.886,"text":"進步啦進度啦那請問你認為川普勝選對ADTA推動有機會加速嗎跟委員報告台美之間洽簽ADTA這個事情是民間的企業還有個人在做跨境投資跟營運的時候非常關切的事情因為這可以解決超額稅負以及雙重課稅的問題"},{"start":4219.042,"end":4229.152,"text":"所以這麼多年來他們都非常的關注那麼在美國的部分不管是他們的行政部門以及國會是跨黨派都是支持這個案那支持你認為會停職還是會不會因為川普當選以後有負面的變數會不會"},{"start":4235.258,"end":4253.346,"text":"剛剛我說過這個其實在國會是跨黨派都支持你看在眾議院的時候都無意義的通過在參院的時候因為是包裹法案是另外一個法案的一些細節的部分有部分委員有爭議所以以至於我們包裹在裡面這個案子沒有辦法往前推進那至於後續的推進的進度我想我們財政部會跟外交部"},{"start":4256.047,"end":4276.725,"text":"以及駐美代表處會持續的一直去做相關的一些關切以及瞭解那我們財政部跟美方的行政部門其實一直就技術面的工作是一直在進行當中因為雙方的稅法必須要進一步的釐清跟瞭解那對未來恰恰ADTA都可以有一些幫助跟加快進展"},{"start":4277.406,"end":4302.096,"text":"部長就本期了解共和黨參眾院兩位議員則質疑拜登政府的宣布是出於政治考量並非真正致力於提供快速的稅務減免那請問共和黨完全執政之後你對ADTA推動你有什麼看法"},{"start":4303.831,"end":4319.342,"text":"剛剛也提過就是跨黨派基本都支持這個案那當然有部分那個國會議員對於拜登政府在10月28、29號的時候有提的一份聲明也就是希望能夠加快這個ADTA的一個洽簽這個部分"},{"start":4320.723,"end":4338.167,"text":"我想這是他們國內的一些政治上的一些議題但是不管是跨黨派的議員或者行政部門以及民間的企業台美雙方民間企業以及個人跨境投資上對這個案子都是殷切的期盼我想這個部分對於推進上是有助力的"},{"start":4338.427,"end":4357.387,"text":"那個部長因為民主黨變成在野之後會不會像去年在野的共和黨繼續拿這個美台租稅協定當作政治上的籌碼會不會我想這個部分他們國內政治我們沒有辦法去做評論是部長是"},{"start":4359.997,"end":4382.459,"text":"川普在美國大選期間曾提出對盟友和競爭對手課徵高關稅以保護美國的經濟台灣至於是美國堅定的盟友但是盟友被剝削、出賣也不是沒有先例我請問部長"},{"start":4385.752,"end":4398.084,"text":"財政部有沒有評估過川普高關稅政策成真對台灣到底有沒有什麼影響跟委員報告就是說當然新當選的川普總統在競選期間"},{"start":4400.19,"end":4418.76,"text":"所一些政見那最後到他就任以後是1月20號以後對於這些政見如何落實在他的政策以及在時程上的推估這個目前來說我們是持續密切的觀察那我問請教政府你們有沒有什麼因應啊這個並且協助國內這些產業與民生經濟你們有沒有想法"},{"start":4423.902,"end":4447.197,"text":"政府部門因應國際間的一些政經情勢的變化事實上是一直都在關切以及有相關的一些因應的措施比如說在產業的部分淨零數位的雙升級這些轉軸以及對於市場的一些擴大我想這個部分政府是一直都在做的那因應為了新的變局當然也會有新的做法"},{"start":4448.752,"end":4465.658,"text":"因為媒體報導有學者研判美國會單邊來推動貿易政策而且自由貿易已死川普追求公平貿易但公平標準由美國他們來定義以下有幾個問題我來請教部長"},{"start":4468.62,"end":4487.894,"text":"學者對川普未來貿易政策的看法本席認為或許本來就是進行式只不過川普上任後是不是會加速推動川普的高關稅政策更是呼應兩年前台積電創辦人張忠謀表示"},{"start":4490.856,"end":4507.512,"text":"全球化已死的看法那我請問部長張忠謀一再重生全球全球化已死到底對台有哪些產業有利有哪些產業不利您的看法勒"},{"start":4508.632,"end":4534.75,"text":"跟委員報告當然這個貿易政策上的一些變動當然會跟產業的布局會有關係那也就是剛剛委員剛剛所提它事實上是一個進行式那我們在產業的布局上其實您也知道供應鏈都在重組那在一些出口的數據上都產生一些變化不管是出口的市場上也都有一些很不同的一些消長我想這個部分一定大家會因應著這個整體國際經濟情勢而做相關的調整"},{"start":4538.132,"end":4551.801,"text":"部長因為近年來台灣對美國的出口和順差都在增加當中那川普深信如果要吸引企業回流美國就必須對美國所有進口品來加徵關稅"},{"start":4554.483,"end":4577.82,"text":"那再搭配國內減稅的政策請問部長川普高關稅的政策是不是會對台灣出口美國來發生這個衝擊會不會我想一個國家任何的一個貿易政策對於其他國家尤其經貿往來密切的都會有一些影響那這幾年其實我們看"},{"start":4578.4,"end":4598.094,"text":"主要市場在美國市場上其實是都有說上升而在我們在中國大陸及香港的部分是事實上是減的也就因應整個國際情勢的變化供應鏈會做調整那出口的市場也好貨品也好都會有一些不同的一些變化那這幾年因為AI的一個興起所以我們在資通訊跟"},{"start":4599.675,"end":4606.267,"text":"視聽產品的部分事實上是應運這個情勢而上升的是非常快的在這個部分是成長的幅度是非常高的那你認為會不會發生全球關稅壁壘"},{"start":4610.396,"end":4629.515,"text":"這個部分我覺得應該持續的觀察部長美國高關稅政策恐怕難逃過因為中國商務部上個月又指控台灣對中國貿易限制措施構成貿易壁壘按照財政部統計今年"},{"start":4630.636,"end":4658.678,"text":"前三季我國對中國和香港的出口占我們出口比重31.2%對美國的出口占我們出口的比重24.1%部長5乘5以上國內出口的占比都是在美國跟中國兩國那請問你認為國內出口商要怎麼樣來因應到底財政部有沒有"},{"start":4659.653,"end":4663.254,"text":"估計會有哪些稅損有沒有 你們有沒有估計過這個部分跟稅損的關係以及產業之間怎麼樣在調整第一個產業的主管機關是經濟部那他們會這個部分也有國貿署他們會做這個部分那你們有未雨綢繆嗎我們的業與綢繆當然就本部的業務部分我們會就進出口的一些數據海關所收集的這些數據它的貨品的種類"},{"start":4686.303,"end":4702.422,"text":"以及出口市場主要的一些消長的情形可以做分析做調可以提供給產業主管機關以及產業做一些參考資料那你也知道像我們在東協的部分事實上也有所成長所以這個市場上事實上它是在變動的"},{"start":4703.263,"end":4716.106,"text":"那個部長如果全球化已死是事實現在有個名詞叫做全球在地化以下有幾個問題我來請教部長對於全球在地化你有什麼看法"},{"start":4717.815,"end":4743.462,"text":"全球在地化我覺得這個是各個國家所採取的政策那至於在相關的產業成本上會有什麼樣的一個變動我覺得產業會去做更好的一個調試跟估算台灣的產業想要在全世界做生意雖然加入區域經濟組織和簽署自由貿易協定有必要但是這些年台灣與其他國家洽簽的自由貿易協定"},{"start":4745.943,"end":4760.577,"text":"這個看得出來困難度非常的高那部長如果全球在地化逐漸成為各地經濟的模式請問你認為大型產業、中小型產業應該要怎麼樣去因應呢?"},{"start":4762.459,"end":4781.38,"text":"跟對外簽訂所謂自由貿易協定這個是由我們經貿辦公室在做主政那至於產業對於有關全球產業的在地化這個部分的因應其實我們台灣就是一個供應鏈其實是一個非常完整不是一個單一的某一家公司某一個產業事實上它的上下游其實都有關聯的"},{"start":4783.264,"end":4792.531,"text":"因為因應變局政府推動各個時代產業的轉型有其必要但是要因應全球在地化請問部長你認為未來"},{"start":4795.649,"end":4817.339,"text":"各類型產業是不是多半會趨向大者恆大本席瞭解除了金融業有多家成立控股公司金融併購逐漸變多之外上市櫃公司也越來越多是集團公司或成立投資控股公司"},{"start":4819.64,"end":4846.066,"text":"請問你認為中小企業是不是只能依附大型企業才能夠生存又或者你認為其他的方式可以生存有什麼方式中小企業有中小企業它的一個靈活度跟彈性它生存當然還有它的生存的一個存在價值這樣喔是好 其他我下次再問謝謝德湖委員接著請吳秉瑞委員發言"},{"start":4854.861,"end":4877.718,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部莊部長好 莊部長謝謝委員部長早今天看到媒體有報導說今年的預算的實收數已經超過今年本來應該要徵收的預算數"},{"start":4880.063,"end":4887.147,"text":"而且超過不少還有估計說今年至少光中央的部分會超過時增數會超過預算數3000多億這個報導是正確的吧"},{"start":4892.16,"end":4920.761,"text":"跟委員報告確實有關稅收的部分不管是全國的稅收還有中央的稅收在10月底已經達成今年度的預算數超過了不是達成而已而且超過了我們估算全年會超過的部分全國大概會超過4千億然後中央大概會超過3千億這個是大概是我們初步的估算對那今年的預算數當然是比去年"},{"start":4922.037,"end":4950.305,"text":"顧了多3000出頭億了那也就是說今年的實收數到年底會跟明年度的預算數金額上會差不多幾乎是因為明年的稅客收入我們編的是兩兆七千億嘛兩兆七千億那今年的預算數是以中央來說兩兆三嘛加上這大概就差不多兩兆接近兩兆七千億是所以"},{"start":4951.485,"end":4980.063,"text":"今年的GDP現在又向上調所以經濟成長率強勁台灣有可能會超過4個百分點所以我是要提醒你這個問題已經談了非常多年了下一個年度就是民國115年年度的時候你是明年的明年度的年終之前就會開始籌編嘛你那時候的預算數你會考慮再增加多一點嗎"},{"start":4981.426,"end":5010.413,"text":"也就是說您是說在籌編1、1、5年的時候稅務預算的時候因為1、1、5年的部分要看主要是營所稅或中所稅是要看1、1、4年的一個營利事業的獲利情形我再跟你報告前天的媒體而已10月光上市歸公司的收入都破兆元了這個都媒體報導的而且是國內媒體所以我的意思是說你的估算還是會這麼的保守"},{"start":5011.786,"end":5034.342,"text":"因為你想想看你今年實收數已經跟明年的預算數幾乎相同了那也就是說明年的GDP的成長當然啦收稅會有遞延的效果但是明年的這個GDP這樣我這樣給你預估你明年還會一樣會超過預算數很多啦"},{"start":5036.085,"end":5049.798,"text":"當然希望就是說整體的經濟成長帶動這當然是經濟成長好但是問題是我們的財政部這個估算一直落後嘛那一直落後就讓有心人士有運作的空間"},{"start":5051.44,"end":5066.854,"text":"說政府啊都給人家什麼用一個不對的名詞明明是時增數超過預算數他就說你超增啊還稅餘民啊這些亂七八糟亂講亂編的又都出來了我們財政部為什麼老是這幾年都一直要留下給人家這樣子講話這樣子的那個空間啊我的問題在這裡"},{"start":5072.427,"end":5098.522,"text":"謝謝委員的指教那因為在籌編的時候會有一些時間落差比如說我們在上半年就開始籌編像今年在籌編明年的時候這講了很多遍你還沒講我都已經知道了但是我是跟你講說你今年的預算數現在要省的這個預算數就是明年度要收的你本來跟我們講說我們一口氣調高到3000多億算是很"},{"start":5099.821,"end":5129.31,"text":"很高了嘛 對不對你當初9月來的時候在講的時候說已經很高了結果現在發現光民國113年的實收數就可能會超過104年的預算數了幾乎是相同或是超過所以你114年的實收顯然會超過預算數了我在這裡就可以跟你打賭也可以跟你斷言啦"},{"start":5130.529,"end":5152.235,"text":"那我的意思是說你115年在編列預算的時候稅入預算的時候可不可以稍微把我們台灣的經濟成長看得稍微好一點至少把這個今年4%的這個GDP的收入再加上明年度GDP的成長再加上明年度GDP的成長也一起估算在內啊"},{"start":5154.056,"end":5172.636,"text":"委員在在估測方面我們是確實要不斷的精進那委員剛剛的意見我們會納入然後我們在估測的時候有關GDP的成長率也都會納進去那當然就是說看法上要更作為一個積極跟正面的估算好那我再來我要跟你請教那個電商的問題"},{"start":5176.701,"end":5204.007,"text":"美國商務部啊剛剛公佈他說去年用小額免稅或免進口的貨物主要是中國啦數量激增高達10億件進入美國10億件那這個方案在10年前提出來的時候10年前的包裹數是1.4億然後到了10年後今天變成10億也就是說他們懷疑"},{"start":5205.969,"end":5229.282,"text":"華整為零然後一再的這個這樣子的做法應該是懷疑是一個普遍的現象所以我就請教你當然美國的免稅的額度跟我們是不一樣台灣是2000塊以下的是免稅但是你如何積增那個包裹是2000塊以下你也是看交易價格還是你是對那個帳單呢"},{"start":5233.775,"end":5246.572,"text":"我們請署長做說明報告委員我們會看他的發票就是他會提供報單上的完稅價格那我們會核對他所提供的發票對那我舉個例子那我如果"},{"start":5248.137,"end":5275.935,"text":"本來是要寄一萬塊的東西我把它拆成五件每一件發票都兩千塊就變成你的免稅額啊你就要知道美國商務部就是在講這個事情嘛因為他也有一個免稅額然後他那個貨物的數量膨脹得太快他認為不正常他認為說應該是會有這一種所謂的拆分的這樣子的狀況那關於拆分的狀況我們海關這邊有什麼方法可以防堵勒"},{"start":5276.795,"end":5302.432,"text":"呃是跟委員報告那委員之前也有提示過海關就這種高價低報以及這種拆分的一個逃避關稅的一個情況要加強的一個查緝那我們都有在做比如說他是冒名的或者是冒名註冊或冒名報關或假借其他的一個人頭的方式我們都用各種的一個方式來做這個相關的查核那也蠻有績效的"},{"start":5303.513,"end":5320.431,"text":"好那我請教你喔最近這三年因為這個包裹的通關你有增到多少關稅快遞貨物的部分大概平均大概是310億到340億之間那貨物稅跟營業稅大概是多少"},{"start":5321.695,"end":5347.887,"text":"呃 貨物稅跟營業稅的比例呃 抱歉我這邊沒有數字沒關係那你會後再補給我齁是那完稅價格在新台幣2000塊以內的免稅免稅的案件件數總共有多少?總金額是多少?已報單每年大概5000目前大概5500萬份左右呃 這種X2的就是2000塊以下的是大概八成到八成二之間"},{"start":5348.487,"end":5372.004,"text":"那所以金額也是非常龐大喔數量是很龐大是對那所以這個中間其實你要去查其他既要花非常多的成本也是很不容易的事情當然是是啊所以這個你們有沒有什麼方式可以針對這一方面我跟你說中國的東西當初我就反對2000塊你說因為外國都是這樣都有一個額度"},{"start":5372.865,"end":5389.994,"text":"中國的東西是在中國生產他就用電商進來到台灣打擊台灣的製造業啊如果他免關稅免貨物稅免營業稅那台灣的製造業在台灣製造無論多少錢他都要繳這些稅"},{"start":5392.168,"end":5414.439,"text":"用我們的制度去造成國內跟外國的不公平競爭中國的東西它現在都是底價傾銷嘛全世界都是認為它這樣啊所以你這個方式就有可能會造成一個讓它可以在中國生產然後來拼搗台灣的製造業的這個機會對我們國內的製造業不公平啊所以如果這個查緝是困難的話你這2000塊的免稅額度不能再檢討嗎"},{"start":5422.748,"end":5445.436,"text":"為什麼我們要給他免稅呢?跟委員報告因為這個低價免稅還是世界公務組織的規範那美國現在不打算遵守怎麼樣?我們現在每次都講世界怎麼樣世界怎麼樣?因為這是全球化政策的產物川普暫時當選之後他本身就反對全球化他要公益面的重整"},{"start":5447.017,"end":5467.812,"text":"所以這樣不公平的貿易是讓外國的製造商打擊台灣的製造業所以我是覺得有必要這個政策我請你們帶回去再研究我們有這個必要嗎在台灣我交一個坦白講我去7-11買個10塊20塊的東西我都要營業稅啊只是它是內涵而已啊那為什麼外國進來的東西外國製造的2000塊以內這些全部都免"},{"start":5477.748,"end":5504.393,"text":"那我是傻瓜啊我在台灣做、放製造業然後讓台灣的幫台灣的這個產業的工人然後讓他們能夠就業然後花這麼多的成本然後去你們的福利你們的利潤你們的那個稅金全部都是對於這些小額貨品從外國電商來的免稅那不是幫助外國拼拼我們台灣的廠商嗎這本身也是一種不公平貿易啊"},{"start":5505.745,"end":5518.207,"text":"好不好 我跟你講中國這種低價傾銷的貨品非常的多我們覺得這個政策應該要好好檢討謝謝你 謝謝好 謝謝秉財委員謝謝 請郭國文委員發言主席 有請財政部部長好 請部長"},{"start":5540.475,"end":5557.764,"text":"委員好部長我們來談一下雲端發票吧雲端發票出事的時候呢你們做了檢討但檢討之後呢卻又改成匿名這又變成改成黑箱好像不願意面對問題又變成鴕鳥我覺得這個問題不對吧可以這樣處理事情嗎第一個"},{"start":5561.29,"end":5571.098,"text":"我們應該要用誠信而且公開公正的方式怎麼可以這樣又變匿名了私下通知呢居然不敢面對問題在這個問題還沒解決之前部長類似的這種活動啊抽獎活動是不是應該先暫停啊"},{"start":5576.943,"end":5592.813,"text":"呃這個部分確實要檢討我們也會做檢討檢討對我方式就先暫停啊對啊你們有改善方法你們已經改善方案了有改善方案先改善方案出來還沒有重新新的改善方案之前舊的方式就應該先暫停才對啊沒有個斷然處理的方式"},{"start":5594.641,"end":5605.349,"text":"跟委員報告目前目前因為已經接近年底了相關的活動大概都已經結束了所剩的都是比較小額的這個部分該斷然處理就要斷然處理該止血要止血不要覺得財政部毫無作為要有點擔當有點魄力好不好"},{"start":5611.594,"end":5630.582,"text":"我們一定會做好好的改善所以說你意思是說到年底要讓他一直拖拖拖到年底之後才來做停止嗎這個個案這個個案已經是不是由台北國務局來說這機制那是哪是個案這個整個機制當然要做檢討我們會正面檢討的所以明年的部分如果沒有重新調整機制的話就這個活動就停止對不對對"},{"start":5632.128,"end":5653.706,"text":"好 第二個我問你一下最近呢我想有看到一些訊息我覺得兆豐銀行那個董董他對這個非實名制的社群的部分行銷廣告連同這個網紅、直播組、盤組都停止下廣告這個部分連同其他的民營銀行都已經加入了我覺得這是好事情啊這會不會是財政部的未來政策"},{"start":5655.239,"end":5677.196,"text":"這個部分對於這個詐騙的這樣一個情形確實是而且我們兆豐起頭來做然後各個商各個金融機構都相繼加入是會讓他的效益更明顯兆豐都已經做了公股銀行從N年前就所組一個所謂ESG大聯盟結果到現在是兆豐來推這個社會責任的一個典範就財政部的做法到底在哪裡你有沒有要加碼"},{"start":5679.701,"end":5695.138,"text":"這部分我們可以再做思考可以再做檢討什麼檢討要加碼還有什麼好檢討的對不對這還什麼好檢討對的事情就要加碼要檢討什麼另外一個部分有些地方做得好的你要形成財政部的政策"},{"start":5695.999,"end":5719.479,"text":"所以我就看到核庫銀行他把一些五個分行給整併掉了這五個分行整併掉之後你知道嗎你自己有沒有算過整個分支機構台灣的這個銀行本土銀行、外商銀行、信用合作社、郵政儲蓄還有農業信用合作部、漁會、票券金融公司高達5890家我跟你講這比全家還多全家3932家"},{"start":5721.761,"end":5741.602,"text":"比7-11還少7-11呢6957家問題是現在網銀盛行啊問題是實體銀行的需求度沒有那麼高啊那財政部對這個部分的態度又是如何我覺得這底下人在做啊做對的事情那你有沒有予以肯定有沒有可能加碼有沒有可能拉高這個決策的位階有沒有可能不漲"},{"start":5743.77,"end":5765.726,"text":"謝謝委員這樣的一個建議確實是對於正確的一個方向財政部本來就應該要再做更加大的一個推廣以至於做一個其他的分支機構都要再做一點好不用個別銀行去處理用一個通用的方式來做處理你去看台南市一家零百貨公司零百貨旁邊不到200公尺有5家銀行"},{"start":5767.347,"end":5782.977,"text":"有五家不到200公尺五家銀行你去Google一下那這種情況底下就代表分支機構非常的多以前分支機構之所以會留著的原因是有它的道理為什麼因為以前在做銀行合併的時候一家分行啊行情是一億啊大家都捨不得關啊"},{"start":5784.738,"end":5808.967,"text":"現在還有這種行情嗎所以這種情況底下你應該去思考這個問題還有合併的部分今天報紙有提到所謂的公共不可行民營併可能比較有可能但是到底要怎麼併是不是可以透過子公司下層底下機構去併這也是一個考慮的方式就是互補這不一定是併什麼方式財政部要一個態度出來不誤雜"},{"start":5810.447,"end":5835.067,"text":"好不好是那是什麼時候給本席答覆跟委員報告我想您剛剛提到第一個就是布點的部分也就是實體銀行分支機構的布點的部分看有沒有對它的效益或有必要性應該是做一個全面性的一個盤整我想這個部分那您提到就是說有關公共病或者是下面的子公司銀行以外的相關子公司要不要做合併的我想這個部分還是要看它有沒有相關的負比有沒有中效"},{"start":5840.672,"end":5858.11,"text":"要發揮這樣的效果以及公會以及我們公會的立場這個都要去...大部分的人去銀行不是存錢跟領錢嘛我剛剛給你算了全家加7就超過1萬家了嘛再加上我們現在所有的相關的金融機構這個分行來算將近有6000家嘛對不對有需要那麼多家嗎這想也知道"},{"start":5863.075,"end":5878.154,"text":"怎麼弄會比較好不要影響到員工的權益這個部分你要去考慮為前提然後節省效率提高那個效率嘛不是嗎我想這個股東或員工還有客戶的權益還有國家整體利益都要做考量的ESG的部分請你加碼"},{"start":5878.635,"end":5906.172,"text":"第二個部分那個分行的時候要調整的時候你要去思考把它政策化另外一個部分需要政策化一個面對的問題剛剛有委員提到你看中國啤酒主打台南牛肉湯欸我不曉得你們有喝過啦還有美國品牌產地都是中國欸然後都說世界知名品牌然後還寫到台灣原創品牌阿麻拜託欸這個酒類標準的辦法當中第13條就不能這樣做啊我們那天開公聽會之後"},{"start":5907.714,"end":5908.661,"text":"副署長有沒有回去跟你報告這個問題"},{"start":5911.513,"end":5919.217,"text":"我看你還在狀況外跟委員報告有關您今天開的相關的記者會這個部分我再跟你講中國大力補貼這個中國的啤酒啊從2013年開始為什麼中國的內需市場持續萎縮萎縮得非常的嚴重這是第一第二產品又過剩就是鄰近的國家就遭殃嘛"},{"start":5938.547,"end":5964.244,"text":"台灣就是阿他用傾銷的方式在解決他產品過剩內需不足的問題阿啤酒就是一個最典型的例子嘛你去看2013年開始阿他有至少六大計畫最著名中國啤酒的十三五十四五大規模的補助喔現在還在補助喔要補助到2025喔他目標就是提高啤酒的產量銷售跟利潤還有呢他這樣的情況底下"},{"start":5966.625,"end":5984.958,"text":"總共中國的這個補助啤酒啊這個補助連著15、10億的補助之下中國的啤酒市佔率暴增4成啊2021開始啊每年都有17到24億的補助一罐啤酒啊這跟台灣的啤酒的價差高達3.65到6.21之間請銷率高達76.9啦然後過往"},{"start":5991.542,"end":6016.044,"text":"我們有對中國課反請銷稅不論是平板印刷或特定旅業或者是毛巾的部分中國也對我們課反請銷稅過我要問你是說部長你面對這個問題的時候你有沒有可能啊把它視為啊這個請銷的可能性提出請銷提出反請銷的一個反制的可能性部長"},{"start":6017.331,"end":6030.817,"text":"跟委員報告這個啤酒這個就是中國政府對這個啤酒的補貼會不會構成傾銷我們目前關務署也正在處理當中那這個部分要處理的態度是什麼基本的立場是什麼我們會有關稅審議小組的會議來處理因為它有一定的流程來做而且要去做相關的調查所以朝廷有可能傾銷的可能調查這部分要由小組的委員來討論"},{"start":6043.642,"end":6052.764,"text":"調查是否是有傾銷的可能嗎傾銷以及對國內產業造成的傷害都要朝這個都必須要有一定的程序你知道嗎他們現在的市佔率從2015 8%現在已經暴增到34%進口的啤酒當中10罐當中有6罐是中國啤酒到現在才有感覺你要多久調查出來我問一下"},{"start":6070.476,"end":6094.967,"text":"有一定的程序一定的程序可以加快嘛不是?不是嗎?處長報告委員這產業主管機關就是說還有這個產業工會還有業者那邊他會跟我們海關來提出申請反請銷的一個申請案件那再由財政部來審查他有沒有請銷的一個事實再由財政部來審查有沒有經濟的一個最快"},{"start":6097.128,"end":6112.021,"text":"署長這個已經有案例可循了我們有客戶他們的反省銷稅啊是最快多久報告委員這個最快齁這個成立反省銷稅照我們以前處理這個案件的經過可能都要8個月到1年以上你們盡量以8個月為目標好不好"},{"start":6113.259,"end":6127.399,"text":"這有一定的那個對阿就8個月到1年阿本期就要求你最快的速度8個月好不好當然就是這事情已經發生快10年之久了好不好就主要他要申請進來我們才有辦法去審那只要他申請進來我們也會加快腳步"},{"start":6129.862,"end":6158.033,"text":"盡量喔 另外一個部分你來看喔那個署長你慢點走 我跟你講一下你看 我們銷去中國的這一個台幣齁被限制得很嚴重啊只有9.5萬啊 銷到中國中國進來我們這邊呢 是高達一千九百一千三百九十七萬的美金啊兩邊的貿易逆差啊高達一千兩百倍一千兩百倍那我們有沒有其他反制的方式讓我們台幣可以順利的進入中國市場 有沒有可能"},{"start":6161.004,"end":6176.032,"text":"目前還是是暫停進口阿目前中國大陸對我...對阿他們可以一直進來源源不斷10罐裡頭有6罐的中國啤酒而且我們去卻不行這相當不公平的貿易嘛部長"},{"start":6179.322,"end":6199.52,"text":"斷然的作為啦好不好不要說你知道這個沒有用啦要有效啦才有用啦好我最後問一下也是關務署的事情喔這個入境代酒的部分到底什麼時候能夠放寬成兩瓶啊老實說我就舉一個關鍵點啦你們也知道稅屬"},{"start":6200.401,"end":6211.548,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":6230.378,"end":6249.947,"text":"一個月報布部長你覺得這有沒有合理?自用送你兩箱椅合不合理?至於自用一瓶送你一瓶啦自用送你兩箱椅啦這樣合不合理?這個部分我們會就關務組所提報出來我們整體做評估是製作評估?整體評估是儘速給我外界答案啦好 謝謝好 謝謝國務委員接著請戴思寶委員那個花妍"},{"start":6264.783,"end":6271.71,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請財政部的莊部長是,請財政部部長委員好部長會長我們看到說今年的稅收預估全年會超徵4千億這個數字屬實嗎?"},{"start":6289.605,"end":6307.11,"text":"全國的部分會超過4千億打超過預算數那中央大概3千億是這個我看了去年啊11月12月兩個月就多了4千多億啊所以11月12月忘記啊"},{"start":6309.465,"end":6334.339,"text":"因此你的4千億是保守估計啊我認為今年會超增5千億左右啊這個怎麼樣你覺得怎麼樣去年我拿去年來看今年啊去年11月12月多了4千億啊那你現在來講的話1到10月只有多增加600億那你現在來講說今年度的4千億我覺得不夠啊如果把4千3加上600那就是5千了"},{"start":6336.585,"end":6364.445,"text":"大概我們初步估沒有到達五千了一定超過四千嗎應該會超過四千四千五全國的部分是四千了四千五差不多去年超過大概全國是三千八那中央大概是兩千九對沒有我再強調一遍去年的11月、12月兩個月增加四千三所以我把去年這個增加加你的一到十月的六百"},{"start":6365.472,"end":6392.904,"text":"那就是五千啊我這樣算的啊指教一下 這個算法有沒有錯我們沒有 這個去年11月跟12月的收起的數字有 這你們的數字啦你們的數字啦好 那這個來講是五千億啦齁是五千億之多部長 你那個還債還得很少啊"},{"start":6393.953,"end":6397.635,"text":"沒有,第一個我們今年的1158億已經還了,今年還會再多還,這樣子跟委員報告,第一個今年的1158億本來就多還了8億就還,我們在12月還會再多還"},{"start":6415.526,"end":6436.875,"text":"能不能增加到6%可不可以到6%我們再來計算一下增加到6%可以嗎為什麼因為第一個我們今年要借的錢也沒有借今年本來要借的錢也沒借所以你這樣扣掉要借的錢啊我就問你了可不可以到6%啦到6%再增加喔再增加會不會到"},{"start":6439.738,"end":6459.883,"text":"對,委員您記不記得您上次在審預算的時候有要求就是說在稅客收入超過時增數、超過預算數這個部分要有5%再來還那5%是法律規定嘛沒有沒有,法律規定是稅客收入5到6,5%嘛對不對,最少要5%那上次立法院有個決議對於超過預算數的部分再加還5%是"},{"start":6464.784,"end":6468.745,"text":"那有沒有到6%嘛我一直問你你又不給回答我們再加還這5%有沒有到6%6%吧可以到6%這個部分跟委員報告因為我們要借的沒有去借所以這個部分還要去所以你沒有去借那是可以還稅於民啊"},{"start":6481.309,"end":6490.851,"text":"沒有去減,因為超過預算數的部分有一些我們是因為稅數還是要執行啊,所以我們在花個6千塊可以嗎?全民再花個6千塊?這個恐怕沒有辦法確定嗎?對確定嗎?是好,我們再看第二題喔雲端種樹的問題重複種大起來你們解釋了半天都跟沒有解釋一樣"},{"start":6508.695,"end":6531.466,"text":"台北國稅局當然要負很大的責任了但是外界就質疑說你們到現在為止你們開了記者會沒有人買單啊網路還是一片罵聲啊從不中獎那就算了結果從不中一樣兩個人中了兩支iPhone兩個人中了兩個iPad誰敢鬧這個事啦這裡面沒有鬼"},{"start":6534.226,"end":6560.447,"text":"沒有人相信啦你說啊這個因為積極參與我就給他這樣講啊感覺奇怪啊難道你們都沒有想到說我中間就是打槍只能中一個你可以再加一個槍小槍啊這我給你放進去就好啊啊這個擺明了就是你們在裡面縱容作弊喔不要說你們作弊喔你們縱容作弊喔"},{"start":6561.67,"end":6581.893,"text":"副委員報告在行政調查的部分我們已經說明第一個對於重複重大獎這幾位呢我們查過第一個不是我們財政部及所屬機關以及廠商的本人配偶以及三星等都不在這裡面都不是屬於這個範圍裡面第二個他們所取得發票我們進行全部就查過以後"},{"start":6582.313,"end":6587.635,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":6606.803,"end":6620.894,"text":"蔣麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人"},{"start":6636.288,"end":6638.628,"text":"以後的活動絕對要做這樣的嚴格的一個控管一定要做嚴格的控管這樣的一個情況確實要深切的檢討而且以後要防範不可以再發生這樣的情形你要不要追究相關人員責任"},{"start":6660.094,"end":6666.383,"text":"相關人員責任這個部分我們現在聽起來都沒有責任所以人家網路到現在為止不買單啊網路現在還在罵你們啊我是替你做囚欸是 這個部分我們一定要做檢討的 對"},{"start":6672.931,"end":6694.976,"text":"檢討要檢討這真的不然的話到現在為止你看起來就是都沒有錯啊你沒有錯廠商沒有錯喔都沒有錯喔大家好老百姓不好啊不是委員這個如果有相關涉及刑法的部分一定要根據這個刑法來處理好不好我們來看喔來調查局已經去調查對請我們范工股的董事長們都上來好嗎范工股的從他應該是"},{"start":6700.111,"end":6702.873,"text":"時間暫停一下好不好我請教一下啦這個像榮統應該是哪一位啊台瑜是吧你向前走一步還是趙鳳你是榮統還是趙鳳"},{"start":6727.725,"end":6752.02,"text":"啊 兩個一起啦 台銀跟兆豐啦台銀薪水比較少 兆豐薪水比較多啦兆豐多太多啦這個 要東東市長 這個回去喔請問你們啦 八家今年大賺錢對不對 舉手大賺錢 舉手統統大賺錢啦統統大賺錢 不要懷疑有沒有加薪的計畫 有的舉手"},{"start":6757.506,"end":6761.869,"text":"明年度4%以上的居所4%以上3%我們明年度軍公教人員挑釁你這3%大賺錢這3%"},{"start":6778.259,"end":6792.166,"text":"董董講一下 董董 你是經營專家 我就對你評價也不差啦 但是你講一下 為什麼 為什麼只有3%報告委員 第一個當然我們是比照公務人員嘛 公務人員加3%我們就加3% 你們比照公務人員 你的薪水就不比照台銀 你的薪水是台銀的3倍"},{"start":6797.677,"end":6820.296,"text":"報告委員有沒有有沒有有沒有你說你的薪水是右邊的3倍勒應該應該有啦報告委員其實其實我們不是只有加這個3%而已啦我們每一年的晉級晉級那部分的話大概自然的加薪大概也差不多就1.5%大概有5%啦其實每一年的人事根本都要加5%請教台營的林總來林總"},{"start":6822.242,"end":6838.814,"text":"賴委員你原來在張營嘛對不對對還有呢土銀土銀不要說土銀跟你一樣還有輸出入銀行從張營到台營你薪水是三分之一啦你不覺得很委屈嗎"},{"start":6840.674,"end":6863.743,"text":"欸我想喔 一點點最主要是我們 一點點委屈沒有委屈我先撇開個人不講喔我是覺得我們整個金控集團裡面還有整個金控集團下面的這些子公司的員工的一些待遇跟福利其實跟所有的公股去比喔還有跟所有的民營去比真的是沒有辦法相比沒辦法相比啦 草稿子 來來來來來來我給你們看啦這裡面"},{"start":6870.637,"end":6884.546,"text":"2013年WF的金融競爭力台灣排名82名名勝輸給中國大陸這個當然很久以前了可是你注意看我們的EPS民間都在前面了"},{"start":6885.421,"end":6907.723,"text":"公鼓樂來請教部長有沒有意思要推動公共病讓他Mass變大有沒有機會公共病可能牽涉到層面比較大當然組織的一個文化以及他經營的策略以及相關經營的強項公共病不可能公民病也不可能是不是"},{"start":6909.887,"end":6915.742,"text":"那最後一個啦我時間有限齁那就好好的提供員工的福利待遇吧"},{"start":6916.84,"end":6940.771,"text":"一個很重要的 你們要給他們加福利 喔 人事總署都在那邊休喔 這個什麼單一興奉 對吧人事總署部長 我今天就公開執行 做球給你你去跟那個蘇蘭市長講 我們這一部分是國營事業不能管啊不能管那麼多啊 譬如說 譬如說 譬如說你們請問那個台土營 我call in"},{"start":6942.285,"end":6959.782,"text":"員工生一個小孩多少錢你知道嗎?今天多少你知道嗎?多少?生家不太一樣來來來台銀講一下多少錢?台銀生一胎是五千塊五千塊啊!要一件!對不對來 招風招風招風講一下你們生一胎多少錢?我們應該大概十幾萬吧十二萬幾萬幾萬"},{"start":6961.926,"end":6967.213,"text":"幾萬、幾萬、講一下12萬12萬12萬對都太少啦第一台12萬、第二台50萬、第一台100萬現在掃紙化在鹹中對不對"},{"start":6980.155,"end":6989.883,"text":"這個東西你們一提出來這個人事總署都在呼呼叫我就是問你一句部長你能不能去跟人事總署那邊講時間到了齁沒有你跟他講說有關於"},{"start":6995.107,"end":7017.977,"text":"我們換工股特別是三個銀行臺土銀他們的員工的福利他不要管那麼多讓你他們自己從英語裡面來出好這個委員這個質詢的內容我們一定會呈達給蘇仁市長管太多啊這個瘦身太窮啊沒有這樣子第三章沒有100萬沒有人要寫啦"},{"start":7020.026,"end":7037.21,"text":"提高我們國營事業員工的福利謝謝委員謝謝賴士葆委員請部長及各家銀行回座現在有請賴會員召委謝謝主席有請莊部長我們再請交通部檢記證請財政部長、交通部檢記證"},{"start":7045.371,"end":7049.554,"text":"王檢任記證王檢任記證交通部王檢任記證委員部王檢任記證市委部長好這個我們這個信賴年限我應該是比較不會"},{"start":7060.27,"end":7061.551,"text":"蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文"},{"start":7079.085,"end":7092.263,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":7095.888,"end":7105.533,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":7123.843,"end":7132.411,"text":"那部長你對於這樣子的一個修法那你覺得他你認為你的態度你個人的態度是怎樣"},{"start":7134.063,"end":7154.789,"text":"剛剛委員所提到就是對於這個所謂的那個什麼低底盤公車還有那個這部分因為要符合2050的淨零碳排的目標所以鼓勵公車都去用電動化所以就停這個部分的貨物稅免徵就停止那至於所謂聲音障礙的或者是那個"},{"start":7156.73,"end":7171.347,"text":"搭運送那個輪椅使用者的車輛復康巴士等等持續的給予這個免徵貨物稅我們認為是對於這個行動不便者是一個友善的一個環境是需要這樣去做的是所以部長你也同意嗎"},{"start":7172.908,"end":7187.097,"text":"本席其實針對這一個修法我有我自己的一個版本那我希望就是說因為本席的選區裡頭在這個人口數很多的人口數其實已經都超過65歲以上的這個高齡的長者"},{"start":7188.738,"end":7204.027,"text":"我希望繼續維持底盤的公車還有油電混合車的免徵貨物稅的優惠延長到2030年年底我希望得到部長的支持部長你的看法"},{"start":7205.789,"end":7212.731,"text":"希望在低底盤公車的部分因為對行動障礙的人會比較方便希望持續免徵我想這個部分因為交通部希望能夠達成用電動公車這樣的一個目的來鼓勵大家轉用電動公車我想這個政策目的是需要能夠達成那如果還有"},{"start":7227.895,"end":7228.376,"text":"吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯"},{"start":7244.912,"end":7261.651,"text":"好,委員好,報告委員就是有關低底盤的公車的部分現在目前所推動的電動巴士、電動公車的部分都是低底盤的方式所以呢,我們針對那個燃油的低底盤的部分就認為說不要再去補助了"},{"start":7262.091,"end":7275.97,"text":"那早期目前我們已經現在已經進入2023年的這個旱台目標已經要進入推廣電動巴士的這個地底盤電動巴士的部分所以目前所有的業者大部分在購買電動"},{"start":7278.413,"end":7296.911,"text":"呃,電動公車的時候都是採用地理盤。記者,這個就是後續我要跟你探討的。所有的一個補助款顯然是不足的。本來你這個公車有可能就是現有的狀況,它一台是600萬。那如果就是說我們用到了就是這個"},{"start":7298.573,"end":7300.374,"text":"蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文"},{"start":7316.664,"end":7330.371,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":7337.914,"end":7364.033,"text":"雖然還沒有公布可是我們從民眾的反映裡頭還有有關新聞的一個報導裡頭我們知道除了高鐵以外所有的公共運輸的使用情形都非常的不理想那尤其是我的選區喔我的選區我們搭高鐵是在嘉義太保啊所以客運是一個我的選區裡頭最重要的一個公共運具那如果以你們這樣子就是說"},{"start":7365.444,"end":7392.797,"text":"就是你們這樣子的一個政策去實施的話那我都是在六都裡頭了那是不是其他的縣、轄市呢是不是會更慘記者委員好針對就是說雖然剛剛有提到的一些各縣市政府推動電動公車稍微比較慢的一個情況是因為有關疫情期間因為在人力上"},{"start":7393.157,"end":7395.018,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":7414.647,"end":7437.208,"text":"這讓我們受傷非常嚴重的一個地方那有沒有比較好的方式如果就是說你這個還沒有恢復元氣之前然後就是說它其實相對的就是說我們以最新一期的那個載印量我用2024的4月份失去了公車的載印量跟疫情那個之前2019年同期我們還衰退了19%"},{"start":7438.849,"end":7440.471,"text":"蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文"},{"start":7460.177,"end":7469.793,"text":"因為我的選區都是偏鄉嘛所以這個對我來講非常的重要那如果就是說你這個法這樣修的話對我的傷害是非常大的"},{"start":7472.329,"end":7481.697,"text":"謝謝委員因為有關就是說雖然我們的剛剛看到數據是有一點點稍微慢了一點點可是在今年不是稍微慢了一點點是慢了很多對在今年的部分我們所預期的部分在電動公車的推廣部分有比較稍微有快了一點我跟你講"},{"start":7493.085,"end":7509.038,"text":"這個快也是還是慢就是甚至我的TBUS你有沒有幫到客運的忙顯然也沒有我們從這個就是說公共通勤署的業票裡頭我們去看很多的一個情況不管就是說你搭乘你是用捷運還是用輕軌這個其實我們用人次裡頭"},{"start":7514.082,"end":7527.189,"text":"在這個TPAS的方案在全國19個縣市其實都配合實施了可是你推出到今年7月底的時候全國的累計數量才只有833萬這個價值的購買顯然我們看到這個數據其實是很不漂亮的"},{"start":7534.933,"end":7548.889,"text":"這個是非常的不漂亮那為什麼要跟你講這麼多的一個問題因為今天在財政委員會裡頭我們覺得就是說國家的一個財政其實要照顧到很多很多偏鄉的這些百姓"},{"start":7549.369,"end":7574.705,"text":"尤其是他的公共運具的一個實施這個顯然是我們所有這個長輩65歲以上的一個長輩就是他他要外出搭乘的時候他其實他的選擇性當然我們希望說班次要密集那票價要便宜可是看起來大家好像都是做不到都做不到那你集中就只有在雙北"},{"start":7575.606,"end":7581.07,"text":"蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文、蔡英文"},{"start":7605.546,"end":7607.107,"text":"蔡其昌等18人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委"},{"start":7622.607,"end":7649.463,"text":"那就是說我們在看T-PASS的一個使用顯然都是偏重在雙北啊對都是在雙北啊那即使年我們就是說我用台南為例來跟你溝通這到台南的公車無限搭這個一個套裝的行程是299然後台南的境內公車加火車無限搭是399那高屏、南高屏的那個運輸走透透是999"},{"start":7650.484,"end":7674.537,"text":"阿這個情況使用的好不好顯然也不好阿可是你不好你還是不能把它廢掉阿因為太窮了你不能連這種公共運具都把我們減掉了所以事後我有一些要求的素面資料我再給你帶回去再回顧給我好不好好這個對偏鄉其實是有很大的一個影響謝謝委員謝謝主席"},{"start":7678.851,"end":7698.535,"text":"好謝謝賴會員召委下一位有請嚴寬恆委員主席各位委員主席有請財政部中部長請財政部中部長"},{"start":7707.523,"end":7733.731,"text":"委員好部長好請教部長台灣金融公司董事長上任三天就主動請示很多委員都很關心民眾更關心我要請教的是說台灣金融是國內許多供股銀行投資的公司也是政府協助國內金融機構快速處理不良債權更是唯一也是第一家政策性成立的資產管理公司那董事長任命這個看起來好像是兒戲一樣"},{"start":7736.687,"end":7750.732,"text":"本席關心這個上院僅三天的董事長會不會對今年公司有任何資料的控管外洩或者是一些這個什麼弊端這個要請教部長那"},{"start":7751.852,"end":7768.583,"text":"重點是不要把人事案當作是一種政治交換因為最主要還是公私治理對於業務上的影響到底有沒有發生什麼弊端還是什麼不應該發生的事情不要像這個檯岩綠能的弊案一樣我是提醒部長"},{"start":7769.622,"end":7795.805,"text":"那部長我們剛剛有在提案說明的部分本席有這個現行的貨物稅條例第12條規定購買低底盤的公共汽車、天然氣、油電混合還有電動以及身心障礙復康巴士載運輪椅使用車輛這個部分那免徵貨物稅到113年的12月31日那當然為了要讓國內復康巴士更加普及"},{"start":7797.386,"end":7810.856,"text":"要延長免徵厚稅實施5年到118年的部分根據資料到去年年底公共汽車有8643輛8000多輛免稅額是46億元副裝巴士4000輛4032免徵稅額4億元載運輪椅的使用車輛8872免稅額16億元"},{"start":7824.105,"end":7849.788,"text":"就我國國內人口持續老化原本國科、國發會預估明年台灣會進入超高齡社會但是根據內政部最新的統計到今年的8月這個嘉義縣、台北市、南投縣等7個縣市超過65歲以上的人口已經超過已經佔總人口數20%以上這7個縣市都已經超過20%了就已經是提前進入超高齡社會"},{"start":7851.23,"end":7868.131,"text":"國內的這些復康巴士、汰換的速度還是沒有全面所以今天本席還有很多委員的版本是希望還有行政院的版本都希望能夠加速來推動讓長者行的安全更有保障能不能請部長簡單說明一下當然我知道主管機關是經濟部"},{"start":7870.294,"end":7883.488,"text":"中央機關室經濟部那我是說這個部分說經濟部有跟財政部討論過那這個對於新增電動車貨物稅減免的部分可不可以請財政部部長你們來做一個研究做一個一個一個這個"},{"start":7886.499,"end":7890.562,"text":"謝謝委員我想這個部分我們在剛剛已經說過就是行政院的版本裡面對於復康巴士還有載運輪椅使用者車輛免徵貨物稅的部分是在延長5年那公共汽車如果它是電動的公共汽車那可以依照第12條之3的條文就可以免徵但是"},{"start":7906.573,"end":7932.623,"text":"不是屬於電動車的部分因為我們的政策是朝向電動化的一個目標所以對於非電動化的公共汽車就沒有再延長免徵貨物稅這個部分是要跟契合的那委員的提案裡面有提到就是電動公車的部分要再延長這個免徵貨物稅但因為電動公共汽車免徵貨物稅這個部分是到明年底是到明年底所以在屆期之前我想交通部"},{"start":7935.164,"end":7939.387,"text":"會在評估以後再會提相關的一些建議到財政部在屆期以前主管機關是經濟部對主管機關經濟部還有交通部我們希望能夠提出一個良好的一個提案來做一個規劃"},{"start":7957.561,"end":7964.708,"text":"請教部長相關預算的部分近7個年度106到112年中央政府收入決算東創新高106年度1.52兆攀升到112年度2.48兆政府63.4%"},{"start":7978.081,"end":7987.204,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員"},{"start":7999.775,"end":8023.696,"text":"主管機關應該落實開源節流並且持續的管控債務的規模維持財政健全不是說文字遊戲還是包裝美化數字應該是要還錢嘛對不對有借有還對不對要借就要還嘛預算中心也彙整了近7個年度中央政府的稅收這個預算決算數106年度"},{"start":8028.8,"end":8048.949,"text":"1.5228兆那107到109都超越了1.6兆到110年開始突破2兆112年攀升到2.4882兆那各年度都比上一個年度增加而且都創新高那這個部分而且每一個年度的預算達成率都在95.6%到121%之間"},{"start":8054.432,"end":8060.435,"text":"那這個預算7年之7年預算的一個達成率為109%合計這個超預預算數1兆989億1.1兆將近1.1兆那請教部長你認為這是一個健全的財政體系嗎"},{"start":8072.605,"end":8074.407,"text":"跟委員報告謝謝委員對這個部分的一個關注有關債的部分我們都是在一直都積極的在還債那今年1158億已經先還了要舉借的1571億也沒有借那也跟委員報告從105年開始到今年的10月底為止我們總共還債了9118億"},{"start":8097.388,"end":8105.556,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":8113.923,"end":8115.465,"text":"實際債務是5兆8780億跟105年比是增加4700億但是這其中如果沒有疫情的話我們事實上債務是減少了3000多億那疫情這樣一個事情因為疫情這個"},{"start":8129.944,"end":8134.546,"text":"大概有7900億的一個舉借如果沒有疫情發生我們的債務事實上是減少的那以債務比例來看101年曾經高到36.3%而到今年事實上是26%其實降了10%以GDP來說我們是降了10%的GDP的一個比例所以整個來說我們的債務控管是非常良好的如果我們的稅收"},{"start":8152.995,"end":8179.74,"text":"有比預算數來得高的話就第一個就是我們減少舉債第二個就是我們增加還債讓我們的一個財政有一定的韌性這是以上跟委員的一個說明截至113年9月底長期的債務這個債務比例你剛剛提到了26%但是中央政府一年度以上公共債務未償還的這個都是上升的整個趨勢都是上升的嘛那所以"},{"start":8180.88,"end":8197.959,"text":"副部長那我另外再請教那之前鬧得灰灰洋洋的這個雲端種樹去什麼一起集點樹重複中獎的那個事件你們給外界的回應是說中獎機制設定是積極參與這個活動"},{"start":8200.442,"end":8229.443,"text":"任務者能夠累計越多這個抽獎機會但是解釋的廠商他不是照一般的抽獎方式而是採這個調高積極參與者的一個全值這個全數值然後給予優先抽獎你們想要用這種方式來提升民眾對於雲端發票的黏著度這個說法我是無法接受啦很明顯的民眾也不接受沒有辦法接受抽獎搞得像在"},{"start":8231.383,"end":8242.582,"text":"像黑箱一樣那這些怎麼看事先沒有人知道那我想部長你也不清楚吧你清楚嗎"},{"start":8243.697,"end":8259.756,"text":"跟委員報告好了,這個案子...好,我跟委員報告,這個事情出來以後我們以誠實的一個態度來面對這樣的一個案子我們第一個我們先做行政調查行政調查裡面重複重大講的這四位都不是我們機關包含財政部跟所屬還有承包廠商的"},{"start":8263.12,"end":8286.896,"text":"本人、配偶以及三親等以內的一個親屬第二個部分他取得的發票的方式我們也全面去查了以後也沒有說有不合規的方式但是這個活動的目的是鼓勵民眾第一個買東西的時候索取發票然後使用雲端發票以及用財政部的APP來以及捐贈做愛心捐的這些點點的鼓勵的目的是出發點是這樣但是廠商他在這個抽獎的程式裡面做權數的調整等等這個部分"},{"start":8293.901,"end":8316.695,"text":"所以對這樣的一個情形對一個權重邏輯的一個程式邏輯我們已請調查局做調查那這個部分應該要從司法調查來做一份議清他們現在這個臉書粉專公告說AI人氣網比賽得獎名單暫緩公告公布日期未定未來公告後將以本活動FB發送私人訊息通知得獎者"},{"start":8318.326,"end":8342.08,"text":"現在詐騙集團這麼多你不認識的電話你都不接了還要什麼傳簡訊你會去打開嗎?你會去點閱嗎?對不對?辦活動應該是以誠信公正公開台北國稅局這樣一個作為當然我們認為應該是要做好好的檢討也就是說未來辦理活動我們會全面性的一個做檢討改進以及防範不應該發生的事情發生對 好 謝謝部長好 謝謝寬恒接著請李燕秀委員諮詢"},{"start":8354.417,"end":8358.962,"text":"我要不要先讓部長喝口水你先喝口水慢慢上來沒關係好 請部長好 陳部長"},{"start":8372.748,"end":8388.554,"text":"副長我還是要先延續一下顏寬恆委員的議題這個雲端發票這件事情因為最近財政部的新聞不算少算非常的多雲端發票這整件事情我覺得活動本身我們是支持的鼓勵雲端發票但整件事情我覺得爭議最大的"},{"start":8390.695,"end":8413.357,"text":"是廠商自行協調你說廠商其實你們跟他並不熟也沒有什麼獲獎的人都跟我們大家沒關係這個我清楚我了解重點是我們這一家廠商那個調整參數你剛說你事前不知道但是他自行調整參數這個部分到底整個開會的過程他們有沒有先告知你們你們也不知道"},{"start":8414.687,"end":8438.74,"text":"第一個這個案子主辦機關是臺北國稅局然後由他們主辦國稅局還是財政部底下嗎?因為你目前所提供給我的報告部長我個人是不滿意因為有幾個重要的資訊你沒有在這個報告檢討報告裡面跟我們說明清楚包括就是說中獎人的權重同時歸零或者是持續的加重"},{"start":8440.114,"end":8455.829,"text":"沒有說明清楚然後另外這家廠商是第一次跟我們合作嗎那他要這個按照道理說我們都應該希望是所有的人每一次的活動他的獲獎的機率是均等的"},{"start":8460.854,"end":8476.873,"text":"做這樣子的權重的就是說讓大家外界我相信你也百思不得其解所以這個廠商這樣的作為是讓外界都覺得說這一次雲端發票爭議這麼多最主要的原因所以我才問說這一家廠商是第一次跟你們財政部合作嗎"},{"start":8478.237,"end":8500.365,"text":"第一家廠商是不是跟台北國稅局是不是第一次跟局長是說跟台北國稅局是第二次合作那這是哪一家廠商廠商名字是什麼合約的內容可不可以公佈我時間不多因為我今天好幾個議題要問提供就是我們公開招標的資料我知道是公開招標的"},{"start":8501.912,"end":8524.605,"text":"我要求今天執行完之後請你們提供這個廠商所有的會議記錄包括當時的權重是歸零或者是累積持續加重他有沒有跟你們溝通清楚他決定要這麼做我覺得是有問題但他決定這麼做他後面怎麼執行合約裡面有沒有寫我覺得你們都要交代清楚光是發挖一個"},{"start":8525.606,"end":8545.367,"text":"不算大這是算小案子你都要檢調去調查要檢調幫你調查那到底我們能不能信任你們發包單位啊這個就是我今天提出來的疑問接下來我覺得這是你們要交代清楚行政責任跟企業的問題請你們公開另外一個就是有關車輛貨物稅的爭議"},{"start":8547.449,"end":8551.691,"text":"車輛貨物稅的爭議最近我們接到幾個陳情案就是有關民眾申請貨物稅退稅的案子貨物稅的退稅它也是經過合法車輛買了進口車之後一進來之後沒有使用又要再轉賣出去所以按照法規它是可以申請退稅"},{"start":8569.597,"end":8580.066,"text":"那這個部分你們現在的說法是說因為現在行政院的有一個案例的判決所以你們要再重新解釋含釋我要請問這是複稅署對不對"},{"start":8584.062,"end":8606.445,"text":"賴慧淑的部分對這個案子你們現在的處理模式是什麼是不是由署長跟您說明署長簡單回應我好不好因為最高行政法有一個判決我們現在是參酌判決議址還有徵詢學者的意見目前在審慎演繹當中但你們已經在韓式在重新擬定新的韓式了嘛但是按照法規齁"},{"start":8607.766,"end":8631.528,"text":"如果即便你們在處理新的函式按照這個稅捐基深法當中即便有函式因為其他的申請案已經進來要申請退稅的案子已經進來他可以按照法規你們可以按照函式你們可以他們可以你們自然可以有利於納稅義務人對於還沒有核課稅的案子他是可以適用的但是你們把所有案子hold在這邊"},{"start":8632.469,"end":8657.37,"text":"我覺得你們在行政上就是有問題我尊重你們後面要用什麼樣新的函式部長我相信你非常清楚我的意思法院的判決歸法院的判決它是針對個案但是現有新的已經有案子進來要申請退你就應該按照現有的函式來處理你不應該把人家後在那邊我尊重你後面要做新的函式我都尊重"},{"start":8658.817,"end":8678.314,"text":"你依法行政現在的法是什麼你就要按照這個法來執行這是我要提醒你的地方好你可以請回第三個部長我回過頭來請教你台灣今年的問題部長台灣今年這件事情在我們看來在用人上是有很大的問題三天就下台"},{"start":8679.515,"end":8691.966,"text":"這件事情是換掉呂俊吉由呂政章出任這件事情是總統交辦的行政院長還是部長你自己決定的"},{"start":8694.317,"end":8709.829,"text":"對於有關相關的投資事業裡面的董總的一個人事調整都是全面性的一個去思考量做一個考量那這個部分大家都會一起做討論好所以大家都會一起做討論這個一起做討論的人有沒有包含院長或總統還是你決定的你說一起是在你底下還是你以上"},{"start":8718.476,"end":8726.104,"text":"呃跟委員報告齁這個當然這個財政部所屬的這個部分這個是要由行政院合定的喔所以有行政院這個角色在裡頭齁所以決定要策劃掉合定的機關是行政院對好所以呃"},{"start":8733.292,"end":8748.859,"text":"這件事情當時要撤換就是說決定換掉這個施董事長你也有呈報上去要換到呂政章你也有呈報上去要撤換掉你也有呈報上去案子當然是要由城市部來簽辦上去 對"},{"start":8751.381,"end":8763.328,"text":"所以這整件事情如果是行政院決定的話那我要請問部長你自己到底有沒有見過呂正章本人之前在決定要撤換要請他上任的時候你有沒有見過他本人對於這個相關的人選我們都會從他的相關資歷裡面你只有看過他的資歷你沒有跟他談過都要去做一些了解"},{"start":8773.895,"end":8799.233,"text":"所以你也不認識他你之前也不認識他我不認識這個人你沒有看過他所以你只有看過他的經歷我不可能從我認識的裡面的人來找我知道但是你決定要用他我們認為都應該用他做事例每一個人算即便你要請署長就是哪一位署長你一定會見一見聊一聊這是基本的程序A、B、C所以你也沒看過你只有從經歷上看過這個人"},{"start":8800.354,"end":8825.131,"text":"瞭解這個人的一些經歷以及他在過往的一些事業裡面的一些辦理的情形對好那個部長那最後呂政章他最後辭職的時候他放話說台灣的政治遠比國際商業複雜你有這樣的感覺嗎我覺得這是他個人的意見啊個人的意見是所以完全沒有政治因素"},{"start":8826.72,"end":8853.88,"text":"呃他個人要辭職我們當然就尊重因為他可能覺得對行政團隊造成的一些困擾他就覺得因避免這樣的一個情形所以他就請辭那我們也尊重他的選擇好部長我還是提醒你未來所有人事任用齁其實不能只看這個一張紙ABC啦所以我覺得還是從這一次的教訓跟經驗我覺得每一個人事任務我覺得還是要找過來進來談哪怕是我們辦公室要找一個新的助理我們都還是會聊一聊談一談嘛"},{"start":8855.261,"end":8860.702,"text":"這是我要提醒部長的地方部長因為我今天還有另外一個議題也非常重要因為我只剩下最後兩分鐘的時間部長那個我們今年度的這個預算稅收到前10個月已經達到3,251億元比去年的同期已經增加了9%已經全年已經達到全年的目標這個數字呢已經達到全年預算數的101.9%今年的"},{"start":8885.367,"end":8903.034,"text":"稅的這個超徵的金額大概達到4千億部長這個前面幾位委員已經問過那再次創下歷史的第三高今天報紙都寫得非常清楚甚至有可能還會挑戰這個是不是再更高都有可能喔就看最後這三個月的數字"},{"start":8904.394,"end":8905.995,"text":"稅收的狀況比預期的樂觀背後代表了有幾個重要的意義在我稍微念一下2021年是4327億元稅收超徵2022 5237億2023 367億元部長"},{"start":8922.624,"end":8941.161,"text":"這個數字 背後代表的意義是你之前來到我辦公室甚至你在委員會說連續3年的順周昭徵我們要成立專家小組會議這個代表我們在編列預算以後不會再超這麼多你上個月10月份的時候才說最多是1000億保守的估計超過1000億這是保守的估計欸 現在這個數字是相差了4倍欸"},{"start":8947.126,"end":8958.698,"text":"四千億耶部長我說你失職應該不為過要不然就是你預判失準要不然就是我們稅制有問題不是你的失職要不然就是我們稅制的有問題部長我已經很客氣的這樣子講了"},{"start":8962.864,"end":8984.188,"text":"不然你了解我意思嗎?因為你一直說你要成立這個小組我們以後預估不會那麼離譜、不會失準這麼多差4倍!跟委員報告這個部分第一個我們確實有成立小組然後我們也做了精進但是你知道有些數字有些稅不是我們一開始就可以比如說證交稅證交稅113年我們是以3500億的日均量來評估當時在去年的時候委員都認為說我們怎麼可以編3500億"},{"start":8992.15,"end":9000.516,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":9013.226,"end":9026.055,"text":"陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠廷等24人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":9032.739,"end":9051.352,"text":"沒有效果這段民意代表立場我們的功能我沒有要罵你但我們的功能就是監督所以我告訴你這件事情你仍舊沒有做好那有兩個原因我們稅制的我們稅制有問題那如果不是稅制有問題那就可能是你的失職你審議三家小組沒有用"},{"start":9051.992,"end":9069.043,"text":"那未來要怎麼處理你必須要給我答案這是我今天的質詢我們持續精進我們的估測謝謝部長謝謝謝謝燕修接著請李昆城委員質詢那本席在這裡報告到陳一貞委員陳一貞委員質詢完畢我們休息10分鐘謝謝主席我們請財政部的莊部長好請莊部長"},{"start":9081.758,"end":9101.919,"text":"委員好部長好這個民進黨其實是委曲求全因為我們還是一致認為說上個禮拜三由陳玉珍、趙偉所通過的這一個三分鐘就通過了這個採訪法完全不合理那完全沒有經過討論那送出去的法案其實是不合乎程序的"},{"start":9102.54,"end":9123.459,"text":"那尤其財劃法這麼重要的法案這個3分鐘就送過去那按照國民黨的這一個他們要通過的財劃法這個要增加6612億那中央只剩下1157億可以用那按照他們的版本來看在國稅的部分"},{"start":9124.139,"end":9127.603,"text":"所得稅總收入從10%提高到25%就是說如果我們都用114年的預算來試算的話從1940而已增加到4856億那營業稅總收入他們從40%提高到100%"},{"start":9140.564,"end":9154.703,"text":"這個完全拿到地方然後這個114年預算試算是從2553億增加到6383億那地方這個土地的增值稅全部都由地方來做使用了那"},{"start":9155.604,"end":9162.97,"text":"按照國民黨的版本我們來試算一下用113年縣市的稅輸統籌款還有113年各縣市地方的稅輸款來看的話我們有9個縣市有9個縣市不計地方稅統籌分配款就比稅輸預算還要多"},{"start":9181.405,"end":9205.243,"text":"從國民黨的版本所搶來的錢搬到地方去的話有9個縣市他們的這個統籌分配款呢拿到了就比他們在113年的這個稅出預算還要多連江縣113年稅出預算是44億按照國民黨的版本他可以拿到69億然後更不用說這個還有很多的縣市"},{"start":9206.204,"end":9230.64,"text":"那等於 那我就請教了部長這個是行政院的這個主計總署的這個副主計長蔡文坤他有提到說如果這個按照國民黨的版本這個要 這個有6612億的這個財源下去相關的事權應該要做調整然後呢 比如說像健保、老農津貼就應該回歸地方政府來辦理"},{"start":9231.981,"end":9255.749,"text":"然後呢這個地方財源大幅增加之後也不能要求中央對地方的一般性補助款不能夠減少因為他認為這不合理那所以我請教一下部長這個竹建總署所提到的說除了健保跟老農津貼要下放不由這個中央來支出之外財政部認為有哪些事權應該要做調整"},{"start":9257.806,"end":9279.796,"text":"謝謝委員收入的劃分一定要配合事權的劃分事權的劃分才有所謂支出的劃分然後才有收入的劃分所以今天如果只是考慮就是說要把這麼多的錢增加6612億劃到地方去的話那一定要先在考慮這個事權但是事權涉及到各部會目前的業務執掌裡面"},{"start":9281.277,"end":9300.808,"text":"哪一些是中央做、哪一些地方做必須要重新檢討所以在事權調整涉及到各部會的一個權責啊現在沒有嘛因為我們沒有討論到事權的調整嘛對目前完全沒有調整那你怎麼去因應呢他們現在就是說比如說按照國民版本他就是要6000多要搶下去的那有哪一些本來是要中央出現在就改由地方來出"},{"start":9301.528,"end":9316.679,"text":"現在比如說像儲計總處在健保跟老農津貼這個部分原來是地方的後來中央來做那大家就1000多億那事實上還有5000多億要怎麼樣去做調整所以會造成中央完全施政上的困難但是要哪些劃分到地方現在目前都還沒有討論因為目前來說財政部在開會的是先討論水平分配各個指標的部分指標必須要公示然後再做權證那所以這個垂直的"},{"start":9328.927,"end":9343.496,"text":"這也是很緊急啊如果按照這個國民黨的版本的話他就是要把你搶這麼多錢下去了嘛那你當然要想就是說那我們中央政府怎麼去做因應本來是由中央出的現在就是由地方出你們有想到了嗎"},{"start":9344.192,"end":9361.381,"text":"目前來說因為第一個既然要增加這麼多然後一般性補助款還不可以減少依照現在黨的版本是一般補助款也不能減少所以整個財政來說中央已經沒有辦法已經就是扣掉法律義務支出能做的社會補助都不能做了現在比如說像"},{"start":9362.001,"end":9377.365,"text":"像育兒津貼、租金補貼這些東西原來都是中央統一在做的像TPAS這些那可能都沒有財源再來處理這些那所以在事權調整上必須要各部會一起來討論怎麼樣在全部來做因應調整所以你剛才提到說不管是這個育兒津貼、少子化的一些補助然後這個中央設宅、這個住進的補貼、TPAS等等本來由中央支付的未來都有可能改由地方來支出"},{"start":9390.209,"end":9406.984,"text":"這個部分都要重新來做劃分了知識體大,你們要有因應啊國民黨是不會等我們等你都想好之後他才會怎麼做他就是硬幹了你要有這個心理準備他就坐在這邊聽了啦然後我再來請教一下這個"},{"start":9410.049,"end":9436.611,"text":"兆豐銀行他最近開出了第一槍他宣布到明年底不再支付任何廣告費用給非實名制的各社群平臺也不得邀請網紅代言各項業務向非實名制的Google、Line、Facebook、YouTube、IG等等不願承擔房主詐騙責任的行為正式宣戰就是不向沒有實名制的這些網路平臺下廣告那請問一下"},{"start":9437.452,"end":9459.347,"text":"部長覺得這個策略、這個政策怎麼樣當然這個策略提出來以後相關的金融事業也都跟進我覺得這是一個很好的都有跟進嗎幾乎都跟進啦我們的這個公股、行庫對公股、行庫全部都跟進了對都跟進啦有嗎 有沒有誰沒有跟進的誰 誰沒有跟進的"},{"start":9467.394,"end":9473.182,"text":"呃有落實掉了是呃我們趙峰董事長他要補充說趙峰董事長"},{"start":9478.156,"end":9503.278,"text":"報告委員關谷銀行都在我們是上禮拜四那上禮拜四上禮拜五就都已經跟進了那現在呢我們從媒體上看到大概投信投顧工會他們也用工會的力量也邀請大家一起來參與那銀行工會勒銀行工會還沒有還沒有做這一方面的這個要求不過我相信接下來的話我們應該可以看到一些民營銀行也會跟進那您現在也是銀行工會的這個理事長嘛"},{"start":9503.959,"end":9529.872,"text":"那這個部長那是不是我們也能夠請這個銀行公會以自律公約的方式來要求我們的銀行不要在這個沒有實名制的網路平台上面下廣告可能這個部分由財政部去請銀行公會來做自律公約這個可能是不是有金管會做來會更適合一點那這個董董勒董董是"},{"start":9532.111,"end":9554.561,"text":"我們會在公會裡面就是用道德勸說的方式希望大家能夠配合不過我想跟大家報告跟委員報告一件事情就是我們是不投廣告但是如果說我們所傳遞給消費者的訊息給我們客戶的訊息是跟交易相關的譬如說我們的客戶他如果信用卡刷卡我們會傳遞他可能透過社交媒體我們傳遞他他有這一段交易"},{"start":9555.181,"end":9581.887,"text":"訊息告知跟投廣告是兩回事啦我是認為那你既然是銀行公會的理事長那也應該這個這個帶頭來做除了公股銀行之外我們希望說這個所有的銀行既然這一個要一起打仗、防炸那大家就一起來做那我再問一下莊部長那我們的各個部會哩比如像財政部哩"},{"start":9583.379,"end":9609.602,"text":"是不是也要帶頭巨頭這個沒有實名制的這些廣告我們有投這個廣告嗎我們本來也沒有在做這個廣告本來就沒有你督導一下我是希望說沒有嗎你們有時候有一些你自己下面的一些所屬單位有沒有下廣告你去查一下我們在座盤點一下是謝謝那就是我們就帶頭也來做好不好是的應該的對打炸的來說好"},{"start":9610.796,"end":9614.18,"text":"董總請回在11月1號總預算的質詢我有提到今年稅收是不是有望超徵2000億部長那時候回應是非常的保守就是說這個2000億可能有機會有可能會達成"},{"start":9631.54,"end":9658.055,"text":"但是你們昨天就開了一個記者會這個今年總稅收將由於預算數的4千億規模隔旺創歷史第三高這個是你們財政部的記者會嘛對不對這個這個齁那比我這個11月1號問的時候等於double勒那時候講2千億就是現在是可以這個收到大概4千億到10月份為止啦那如果我們來推估的話啦前10月達成率是116.2%"},{"start":9660.967,"end":9664.392,"text":"估算的話 超收會到5000億部長怎麼看這個數字"},{"start":9667.008,"end":9690.968,"text":"跟委員報告,委員上次在質詢的時候有提到,當時我有提到就是說因為10月份還有,10月份有一個,不是,9月份有一個盈利事業的站腳稅款要進來,到10月份才會陸續賬才會看得出來,所以我到11月中的時候數字會比較沒有啦,那個差距太多了啦,部長你的講法都非常非常的保守啦,是很保守"},{"start":9691.668,"end":9710.979,"text":"對,然後到10月底的數字已經統計出來所以我們昨天的記者會就直接說了就是說全國的部分時增數會超過預算數4千億然後中央數會超過預算數的3千億那如果按照這個比例來看,年底是不是有可能到達5千億?不是,我們這個超過數就是指到年底為止沒有,現在10月啊,你現在已經不是到10月份嗎?"},{"start":9711.519,"end":9725.666,"text":"對,不不不,10月根據10月的時增數來推估全年會超出的數所以這個是4千億是全年度?全年度會超出4千億?負稅超出的話呢舉債就會減少那113年總預算預計舉債是1267億特別預算舉債是2637億合計是3904億這是113年的總預算那請問一下目前舉債的執行數勒?"},{"start":9741.942,"end":9768.299,"text":"總預算的舉借我們並沒有借然後特別預算的也沒有總預算沒有借總預算都沒有借因為原來編的數字我們都沒有去借所以你們編的這個不論是這個總預算、特別預算3904億都沒有去借就對了因為稅務執行的好的話我就會用稅務的錢然後去來去做一些稅出的支應所以在總預算的部分沒有借特別預算應該也沒有借這署長要補充嗎特別預算的部分"},{"start":9769.727,"end":9785.848,"text":"有借多少?特別預算是借多少?特別預算有借總預算的部分沒有借?沒有借,然後也還了1158億那個債的部分也先還了那特別預算是借了多少?特別預算借了"},{"start":9788.103,"end":9814.425,"text":"我們待會我們查一下再跟委員報告那等於是說本來要借的沒有借對那要還債對那總預算的部分是沒有借特別預算有借對那還債預算原編的1150我們還了1158那到12月我們會再增加還債那如果有稅計剩餘的話財政部有什麼規劃的運用嗎稅計剩餘的話就會進到主計總處那邊去他作為以後年度的一個融資財源對那當然那我是說部長你有什麼樣的規劃嗎"},{"start":9817.029,"end":9836.934,"text":"呃沒有我們就還是減少舉債增加還債啊呵呵這就是你們的規劃就對了對對對因為這樣讓財第一個債務餘額不會不會一直累積上升很多然後再加上財政就會有韌性那我們到累積剩餘以後明年或後年他需要支出的話就是多一些融資的財源那減少一些可以需要舉的債的數額好"},{"start":9838.634,"end":9860.326,"text":"臺灣法要小心翼翼,這個前6000多月下去的話,中央是很難去做運作的地方掙了這麼多錢,那權力也應該要下放,這個都要事權跟這個錢都要講得清楚因為整個如果這樣的話,連重大建設可能推動上都會受到影響謝謝,謝謝主席、謝謝部長謝謝昆城,接著請伍麗華委員質詢"},{"start":9873.085,"end":9879.428,"text":"謝謝主席請部長先休息一下先請促參司好 促參司 市長市長好我們看預算關於促參案"},{"start":9898.711,"end":9912.983,"text":"這個今年提前終止契約的比率是比去年的同期更高那我來看一下一些數據依照促參法簽約的案件有1673件那民間投資的金額是1兆零161億元"},{"start":9919.522,"end":9934.99,"text":"那麼這個契約期間呢估計可以減少政府的財政支出高達一兆8480億元增加政府的收入呢7134億創造超過18萬個就業機會所以從數據上來看是不錯的可是呢如果我們來看它的解約率"},{"start":9947.472,"end":9951.536,"text":"以110年來講是9%、111年6%、112年呢到14%那先請教一下司長這樣的解約率是低的還是高的"},{"start":9973.147,"end":9984.541,"text":"這個解約率大概是12%左右那這個解約率我們有盡量在想辦法就是看可不可以降低所以是偏高的嘛那我想說的是"},{"start":9985.302,"end":10005.172,"text":"因為從辦理促參以來我看到提前終止契約的件數高達201件那解約的金額是1294.54億元所以這個提前終止契約的案件數是佔全體案件的12%"},{"start":10007.173,"end":10034.945,"text":"那我們的這個預算中心他有做這樣的解釋他說畜生案件的提前解約呢很容易發生設施設置不全待處理的問題還有資產閒置的問題以及常常被詬病的很多文字館的這樣的一個情勢所以我想說請您說明一下就是這個提前解約比例"},{"start":10035.725,"end":10038.046,"text":"這麼高,它的原因是什麼?跟委員報告,比較高的原因有時候是當然有部分是屬於政府可能政策有一些變更那另外也有一些是屬於民間機構它經營的部分或許有一些財務上的相關問題"},{"start":10062.281,"end":10089.095,"text":"還有就是說可能當時就是先期規劃的時候預估的東西跟事實上執行的不太一樣導致財務的部分可能有一些相關的一個狀況所以才會有解約的這種情況那請教就是看起來是連年都不是很理想那這邊促參司有沒有去想過怎麼預防或者是怎麼降低促參的解約率"},{"start":10091.462,"end":10108.1,"text":"跟委員這邊說明就是說其實我們從就是修法之後初參2.0之後其實我們致力於在我們的一些相關作業手冊的一些製作還有一些相關財務操作指引的一個製作"},{"start":10109.501,"end":10135.783,"text":"還有就是說我們希望就是做一些相關的一個招商文件可以讓我們的一個主辦機關有可以依循的一個部分那另外主辦機關他們在整個履約過程中我們是希望說他可以透過一個就是實際每年的一個訪視作業那看執行機關執行的一個狀況可以事先先做相關的防範"},{"start":10136.604,"end":10151.979,"text":"那另外財政部有一個督導考核的一個部分就是我們會考核就是主辦機關他每年做訪視就是履約中案件的一個訪視的一個相關的一個情形那另外最後就是說我們出差二點有新增一個"},{"start":10152.62,"end":10173.778,"text":"就是爭議調解的一個機制那假設說甲乙雙胞在履約有相關的一個困難或者是有一些爭執那也可以透過財政部的一個履約爭議調解的一個機制來向我們申請調解那司長 這個初三2.0上路以來有沒有改善有沒有效果"},{"start":10175.168,"end":10189.004,"text":"那我們這個促參到底這些民間他是很有意願是爭相來希望可以來參與還是說是我們求他們的比例比較高"},{"start":10192.25,"end":10216.476,"text":"各位媒體報告我想我們就是中央政府或是地方的一個政府我想我們都會致力於就是說做出一個比較好的一個案源讓吸引民間的一個資金可以來投資那市長為什麼我這麼重視因為我們來看一下這個促參解約的類別文教、設施"},{"start":10217.827,"end":10233.054,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":10235.335,"end":10261.782,"text":"農電業的33、觀光油氣30那如果說我們再來看這些提前解約的金額觀光463億、文教267億、污水下水道171億如果去看它的占比也是很驚人觀光將近6成那公園綠地5成、社會福利也將近5成"},{"start":10262.932,"end":10286.577,"text":"那麼我們財政部金管會我們的財委會其實我們也很重視怎麼樣把這些保險金融他們的資金能夠進來參與我們的公共建設可是像這一些我們都已經可以知道可能的情形會發生的情形我就在想說"},{"start":10287.797,"end":10315.571,"text":"像這種觀光油氣它是金額最高的文教設施是建樹最多的農業資源循環再利用是簽約比最高的所以這個部分我是希望說要有一個策進作為我原鄉我多麼希望我們能夠投入更多的一個公共這些建設但是我這樣子看我很憂心"},{"start":10317.011,"end":10325.756,"text":"我怎麼能夠有期待呢所以是不是可以一個月內給我這個報告好吧好 謝謝那再來請財政部長委員好部長請教您如果說我們做十大民怨調查您認為第一名是什麼"},{"start":10342.093,"end":10358.448,"text":"因為我們所知青年人非常重視就住的一個問題對於有關房價都會有一些對 是這個很奇怪其實幾十年來不論哪一個政黨好像高房價始終是民怨之首"},{"start":10359.249,"end":10378.234,"text":"好像一直沒有辦法去抑制這個情形那我來看一下我們從清安一直到現在的新清安我們看一下它的貸款額度提高了一點點但是貸款期限增加10年寬限期也增加了2年"},{"start":10378.894,"end":10394.348,"text":"政府也做了利息補貼公股銀行也做了減半碼的優惠實施期程也不斷地在延長中好 但是呢 我想我們的購屋指數真的就是數一數二"},{"start":10395.109,"end":10396.731,"text":"李慧琼、李慧琼、李慧琼、李慧琼、李慧琼"},{"start":10411.209,"end":10429.942,"text":"他會影響到要不要結婚結婚就影響到有沒有生孩子然後就影響到我們未來的勞動力我們國家的生產力其實房子很重要很重要這是人生的首務所以我們想我們原住民其實更慘"},{"start":10431.323,"end":10450.638,"text":"我們原住民因為是原保地我們蓋房子我們還不能拿那個蓋房子的土地貸款所以我想這個部分它不疊反身成為笑柄那我們也已經很努力了我這是在想說這個部分請教一下部長你們有提到"},{"start":10452.695,"end":10472.277,"text":"當時大家在吵得沸沸揚揚在笑我們的時候變成笑柄不諜反聲財政部回應說無漏網之魚濫用者臨容忍投機客勿以身事法因為我們看到更多的投機客更多的人投戶更多的代後轉租"},{"start":10473.098,"end":10481.686,"text":"所以財政部也提到提供15項的規範可以讓大家去勾結有沒有這樣的狀況那麼你們截至這個8月我發現公股銀行自行篩選查證疑似高風險"},{"start":10490.635,"end":10496.68,"text":"也發現了做了兩波有1575件出租情勢的1366件人頭戶的209件部長你有沒有覺得這個數據嚴重低估"},{"start":10506.578,"end":10524.086,"text":"這個部分跟委員幫我們會持續的去做查核而且我們會透過政府的資料來相互比對來做查核我想這個部分是告訴所有的投資客要注意政府不會放任這樣的一個情形讓他們不要以宣誓法那你們有沒有去研議過"},{"start":10525.487,"end":10541.362,"text":"就是像這種炒作的、暴力的是不是來研擬、修法把它列入經濟犯罪嗎這個倒還沒有涉及到那個經濟犯罪第一個就是說我們幾十年來啦不管哪個政府、哪個政黨"},{"start":10541.923,"end":10564.85,"text":"因為他有違規的話那我們的銀行就會跟他重新談這個貸款條件也就是剛剛委員所羅列出來的新清安第一個政府有利息補貼第二個貸款的期限拉長寬限期也不一樣那這個時候他就要回到非新清安的一般的條件甚至利率也會有不同這個部分是從這樣來做那第二個部分目前來說新清安只"},{"start":10565.49,"end":10586.727,"text":"倩貸一次,一生只倩貸一次也就是說你用過以後讓你違規了以後不可能再用或你把房子賣掉以後就回到一般的貸款我覺得這個部分可以遏止他進進出出這樣子去賺取這個差價好,我其實不管什麼新清安貸款我覺得那個都是一個抑制高房價的一個工具"},{"start":10587.748,"end":10607.25,"text":"提供我們居住正義的一個工具但是始終我們的根源是沒有改善的所以我覺得財政部這個地方可能要跟其他的部會繼續的要來想怎麼樣的策進作為是真正有效的我想這個才是重點因為"},{"start":10609.752,"end":10629.048,"text":"從房價他會影響到的其實是層面非常的廣算是一個國安的一個問題所以我也希望說一個月內我想要來了解看看我們能不能夠再想出更好的一個策進作為也給我一個報告好嗎好 謝謝委員的提醒謝謝部長 謝謝主席 謝謝伍麗華接著我們請陳一貞委員質詢"},{"start":10638.823,"end":10639.283,"text":"謝謝主委,請莊部長,謝謝好,我們有請莊部長"},{"start":10647.301,"end":10673.913,"text":"委員哈部長剛剛吳委員提到這個是房價的問題牽涉到居住正義還有我們也是國安議題那我現在講的是我們今天修貨物稅條例本期也有提案在有關這個機車的部分機車還有小客這部分也應該調降貨物稅人家覺得騎機車事實上很多年輕人或者小客車是可能一些這個很多就是年輕的這個新婚家族"},{"start":10675.033,"end":10701.57,"text":"年輕人還有新婚的這些相對在經濟上還沒有那麼穩固的這種族群所以這個機車條件貨物稅應該沒有什麼問題吧跟委員報告有關機車如果是電動的機車的話其實貨物稅其實並不需要這樣可針對我做的是普遍的嘛普遍的就是機車以前算是可能以前訂貨物稅是為了當它是奢侈品現在機車也不是奢侈品啊"},{"start":10703.154,"end":10707.082,"text":"所以凡是機車、機動、腳踏車都應該免徵啊騎機車的族群已經相當弱勢了這個部分應該又可以同意吧"},{"start":10713.123,"end":10725.728,"text":"委員報告因為現在貨物稅這個影響稅不大貨物稅這個部分還涉及到污染的一個造行動性的問題所以我們也支持電動機車給更好的我們鼓勵民眾黨電動車電動的我也是支持我們在這個部分給更好的優惠比如還有很多獎勵什麼各方面但一般的呢一般的對於機車還有我國的這種小客車價錢實在是太高了比起世界上很多國家"},{"start":10740.834,"end":10754.18,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":10758.761,"end":10782.873,"text":"鄭所得稅這個部分嘛對政交稅要課啊我說股票我說股票所得利得沒有嘛政交稅你這樣這樣在這幾年這幾個月這幾年股票股市不錯所以他們交一點稅也是應該那這個多交的稅我們要來幫助我們這些比較弱勢的族群騎機車的這些小客車讓國內的買車的這個負擔可以降低跟買房負擔降低是一個道理啊"},{"start":10783.633,"end":10802.037,"text":"所以今天有提出修正的動議,我有提案,那這應該沒有問題吧?跟委員報告,這個有關稅的部分還是要整體的一個考量而且已經討論很久了,我在上個月就已經請你們研究了,這個應該影響不到涉及到能源的運用以及污染的問題當然再次跟你強調能源不是沒有問題嗎?我們對電動車我們也再積極獎勵嘛"},{"start":10805.478,"end":10832.59,"text":"有時候是普遍性的小客車我們是希望透過這邊的獎勵讓我們消費者可以往這一邊去這個也是沒問題但是在沒有人有時候電動車還比較貴很多人沒有辦法負擔的情況下那讓他們去如果還只能買一般的車子這更弱勢的主因我們更應該幫助啊政府的政策除了租稅以外應該還有其他的方式來鼓勵那這是殷實力道嘛讓國人的汽車可以更便宜一點用更好的價錢比國外"},{"start":10834.551,"end":10853.395,"text":"至少要跟國外比較接近嘛這個你趕快討論啦齁來我今天問你這等一下我們審就會審到啦齁來我們跟你討論齁在這個2021年的時候齁這個我們那個秋威節就是台北四千元就是什麼呱吉啊他有提議提議啦齁要修正英九管理法的第30條開放網路賣酒有5200"},{"start":10856.576,"end":10885.451,"text":"多個復議有5000多位民眾公共政策參與平台有關開放網路賣酒提案在2016年的時候行政院會也通過《英國管理法》修正辦法開放一定條件方面的可以透過網路賣酒由超商交貨法官購買者的年齡因為現在都是網路世界網路科技開放賣酒初期先以小規模實施"},{"start":10887.151,"end":10909.125,"text":"這個2016年喔然後接著透過網路大數據分析買酒人的行為資料並不會因此而造成飲酒情形更氾濫了齁你知道我們基本是當然主要都是賣高粱酒啊我們可以繳上繳中用這麼多稅收齁也是因為我們基本人的除了自己努力喝也努力努力吐香齁我講電商對網路賣酒所以"},{"start":10909.685,"end":10937.821,"text":"我們是我們現在交互配酒我們自己有交互配酒你們可能不知道知不知道但是我們現在交互配酒價格沒有比以前好了那基本每個人都希望這個酒的價格可以越來越好那當然這個販賣的管單因為在離島嘛我說是不是可以再請你們研議開放網路電商賣酒啦你看看世界各國齁英國、法國、日本中國大陸、澳洲齁都已經有採取用管控機制開放網路賣酒而且行之有年"},{"start":10938.801,"end":10954.799,"text":"我們現在政策怎麼樣2021年你們有回應過啦這2021年那時候這個公共政策開放平台提出來的你們說很多的很多理由茂然推動孔量正義這是2021年現在已經現在已經2024快要結束快到2025了那2016也開始實驗過了"},{"start":10959.725,"end":10975.312,"text":"你們2021到現在我知道跟委員報告因為現在的菸酒管理法裡面還是對於網路賣酒是不容許的所以我才要提出這個建議要修法所以你剛剛也提到了嘛就是2016年就是105年的時候也曾經有一個修法然後送到立法院"},{"start":10975.852,"end":10983.434,"text":"但是呢因為從來以後又各界的意見非常不一致社會沒有共識所以這個部分並沒有完成這個修法我們也在跟衛福部瞭解那衛福部的表示是說根據調查統計我們青少年的飲酒問題有日趨的嚴重所以為了保護這個未成年人身心健康沒有一個"},{"start":10996.937,"end":11004.519,"text":"我講的網路賣酒還是不給威神天買啊 一樣不能買啊所以要怎麼在身份認證上要有一個完整的配套配套就是說你在買賣的那個時候去取酒的時候不是超商的時候他可以認證他的身份就好像去超商買酒買煙什麼都要看身份證啊"},{"start":11019.184,"end":11037.974,"text":"因為網路賣也是也是很多取貨都是要到很多超商啊到哪裡去取貨啊這個很多東西要認證啊或者上網的時候現在不是有自然能憑證嗎你上網你要可以買的時候你必須要通過那個自然能憑證這個都是方法可以做是用什麼方法我們一樣反對賣給未成年啊"},{"start":11038.974,"end":11064.235,"text":"是 方法怎麼那個時代一直在進步啊2021到現在又2016到現在已經8年了2011到2021到現在已經3年了啊這個怎麼跟著一定要跟著時代進步啊我跟你重申我還是反對當然我們也是反對青少年我知道委員的意思在制度上就像以前報稅嘛要去國稅局排隊現在自然人的憑證這樣上去就可以報稅啊怎麼樣在這個程序上做好規範嘛"},{"start":11067.802,"end":11085.153,"text":"所以跟委員報告我們也曾經邀集過相關的機關跟團體大家來開會然後呢他們認為說國際間開放網路泛酒的國家還是存在沒有辦法有效的防渡而造購酒這個問題也就是說要有一個完整的配套的防渡這個問題"},{"start":11086.954,"end":11109.467,"text":"因為那個現在ATM都是詐騙集團在用被人家去取錢啊領錢出來當詐騙那ATM應該不能使用啊EUFS你就完全如果照你這個邏輯ATM你就不能用啊因為它會變詐騙集團的這個工具啊的確是現在的確是嘛對不對那照你這種邏輯很多東西上網都很危險上網很多東西可能都會賣一些危險物品網路那個電商應該關閉啊"},{"start":11111.615,"end":11139.995,"text":"你了解嗎?如果照你這種邏輯你要想辦法去讓管理進入規範嘛而不是一味的禁止嘛你了解我在說什麼嗎?我知道委員您的意見我們是不是再來再來跟相關機關跟團體來研議後我們順便報告大概兩個月吧我上面就寫一個月你還給我兩個月不是啦 研議是一個托詞啦但是真正要人解決啦"},{"start":11140.635,"end":11166.928,"text":"你們的心態要開放嘛我知道我們如果照你的邏輯所有東西在網路都不能賣電商應該全部關掉吧什麼東西都可能變成犯罪的工具那委員是不是容許我們兩個月我們是要開會議邀集機關跟團體一起配套對比如說你要具體提出說對於青少年的部分到底要怎麼做有沒有配套的完整的配套對自然能品證啊規定站牌的時候一定要輸入什麼那個不然照你這樣子很多年輕人什麼東西都不應該上去買啦照你們這種邏輯啦這種因約廢時的邏輯嘛"},{"start":11170.71,"end":11170.85,"text":"財政部長"},{"start":11195.257,"end":11215.907,"text":"你又提供了過去兩年過去兩所大學成大跟台大都是用畜産推動的這個案例那金門大學有準備在116年1月發行4億的30年期公債那看進度這個是已經列入算是你們中央的永續債的個案嗎"},{"start":11218.46,"end":11235.489,"text":"請回答委員這個會提早到115年我們提早提早到115年就要發行試議是吧對那這個你們有沒有積極協助這個我們一定會積極協助那你們積極協助的結果會不會像剛剛那個說的201件出差案提前解約文教設施佔了70多件"},{"start":11237.794,"end":11256.271,"text":"為什麼文教設施的案子都會提前解約啊?但是我們金門會不會在你們的積極協助下變成這個樣子?提前解約不會因為我們積極協助的關係,因為解約的原因很多我們更加加大努力積極協助好,這個請多多費心了好,謝謝好,休息10分鐘"},{"start":11271.749,"end":11285.07,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":11297.892,"end":11308.391,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":11317.438,"end":11332.868,"text":"陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠廷等25人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":11333.408,"end":11344.458,"text":"原本是12.5個投票我們還會再修沒有沒有你要先劃出來要幫人家不是啦他已經劃了啦意思是電子檔沒工可是他如果是用石板就給他劃不是叫他們再注意一下OK OK"},{"start":11367.295,"end":11369.386,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員"},{"start":11904.585,"end":11911.727,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會請各位同仁回到座位上謝謝大家"},{"start":11932.013,"end":11956.103,"text":"接著我們請黃珊珊委員質詢謝謝主席我想請財政部長還有趙鋒、金控、董董事長以及台灣台酒公司湯董事長"},{"start":11957.222,"end":11966.905,"text":"好 那個請部長還有董董事長還有我們的湯董事長委員好是 部長好 還有一位董事長好 部長好 兩位董事長好我想今天有一個很重要的事情就是兆豐金控的董董事長我現在在這裡本席要給你按兩個讚"},{"start":11984.997,"end":12012.36,"text":"第一個讚是銀行工會希望能夠訂立融資公司的專法是嗎第二個讚就是之前在兆豐銀行開出第一槍從現在開始到明年要暫停在非實名制的網路社群媒體下廣告現在所有工銀行庫部長全部都加入了嗎第一個土地銀行確定已經加入了其他的勒在座的董董"},{"start":12013.612,"end":12019.599,"text":"各位董事長都加入嗎?不加入的舉手?沒有嗎?所以銀行公會也在董董事長的領導之下接下來民營的銀行你要怎麼辦?"},{"start":12029.188,"end":12044.533,"text":"我們盡量是用呼籲的方式、用勸說的方式呼籲、勸說打詐指揮中心打詐是中華民國政府最重要的工作這些所謂的非實名的社群媒體他們當然是國際公司"},{"start":12045.994,"end":12073.086,"text":"離我們跟不離我們會差很多至少至少現在你不知道到底有多少人冒用了我們的這些相關的銀行做廣告只要你沒下廣告就知道那上面的廣告一定是假的對吧沒錯沒錯所以這件事情要堅持部長除了我們公營銀行庫之外我也希望財政部跟銀行工會去跟我們的民營銀行勸說至少這是一個態度的問題好嗎"},{"start":12074.616,"end":12083.199,"text":"姜蕾蕾等19人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員陳菁徽等19人、委員"},{"start":12097.113,"end":12113.384,"text":"好 說好了就要做到第二個部分 部長請問財政部所主管的機關大概有編列了4700多萬的媒體政策跟業務宣傳有沒有花在剛剛所說的這些非實名制的網路社群媒體上"},{"start":12114.244,"end":12136.005,"text":"瞭解的話大概就是租稅的部分我們會做一些宣導大概會是以貼文的方式會去做一些貼文貼文沒有問題廣告的部分沒有吧對對就是用貼文的方式我們也會再去做一些盤查如果能夠以更好的更有效的方式杜絕這些運用這樣子來做詐騙的讓民眾不要上當我覺得更重要這是我們主要的一個"},{"start":12136.485,"end":12140.726,"text":"沛琳沛琳沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛沛"},{"start":12161.932,"end":12167.935,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員"},{"start":12186.546,"end":12206.364,"text":"剛剛講的董董事長這樣的動作其實對政府部門算是開第一槍我們也希望政府要一致朝打仗的方向走尤其是像我們有下這麼多廣告這些廣告要用在有用的地方所以那個董董事長你的融資公司法也是銀行公會會大力推動的吧"},{"start":12210.26,"end":12231.573,"text":"報告委員其實這個我不敢鞠躬這也是主管機關有要求當然我也去跟主管機關報告說如果去參考日本、香港或是甚至其他英國的話大概也差不多都有這種專法所以我建議是要趕快去設這個專法謝謝我想銀行公會應該是最希望成立專法免得現在變成大家亂成一團"},{"start":12232.714,"end":12241.538,"text":"而且最重要的是台灣社會裡面有太多受到這些影響的不管是年輕人也好或者是弱勢族群也好可能比較大的關鍵點是誰是主管機關這樣好 謝謝那兩位董事長請回我請部長繼續喔"},{"start":12246.621,"end":12266,"text":"今天我們在討論的是貨物稅所以貨物稅裡面把所有的大客車、公共汽車只要是電動車的我們都以作為減免但是現在有關我們這些電動車它最大的問題是主要的問題部長知道為什麼電動車的推廣沒有辦法這麼普及嗎"},{"start":12270.572,"end":12286.019,"text":"蔣麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人"},{"start":12299.244,"end":12304.69,"text":"好數量不夠現在今年上半年電動車的新掛牌就有19000輛2023年是有2萬多輛那到目前為止電動小客車的總數已經到8萬多輛看起來數量不斷的在增長可是我們的充電樁好像沒有像車輛增長的這麼快"},{"start":12320.387,"end":12343.363,"text":"所以很多的問題是充電樁不夠所以大家換購的意願就沒有那麼高現在的問題是充電站不夠的原因可能有幾樣第一個是環境部我們大力在推展可是為什麼還是不夠目標一樣我們是不是有更多的推力跟拉力所以部長曾經在2022年的時候"},{"start":12345.953,"end":12358.872,"text":"相關的會計十事無所早就已經在推動說如果要提升台灣的電動車產業就希望充電站的地價稅、房屋稅有沒有可能做一些優惠現在財政部有沒有這樣的方向"},{"start":12363.376,"end":12388.516,"text":"有沒有可能做相關優惠因為土地稅法18條規定特定土地的使用項目它可以課徵地價稅然後不需要經由所謂第16條所以以前是用停車場的部分做了樣貫的優惠那充電樁是不是充電站在土地稅法或者是黃屋稅法中間我們可以增加一些所謂的減免的規範部長"},{"start":12391.315,"end":12418.147,"text":"委員您提到就是說對充電樁的設置從這個稅的部分來給你鼓勵那這是不是主要的一個原因我覺得這個再去探究然後我們會再去盤整一下相關現行的法令在這個部分是不是可以如果在停車場裡面設停車如果停車場原來也就是免地價稅的話那當然就不會有這個問題那其實停車場本來就有所謂的優惠嘛對那我想還有一個就是"},{"start":12419.301,"end":12432.617,"text":"就我所知在因為過往的建築物裡面下面如果現在我們買的房子下面有地下停車位那地下停車位通常大家希望把車子開回去能夠有充電裝因為充電裝有兩種一種可能是很快速的有一種就是很久你才充得飽的"},{"start":12437.703,"end":12465.883,"text":"這也是一個問題如何在原有房屋裏面加設電動樁第二個就是新建房屋裏面有沒有要求對停車位裏面就一定的比例這個都是很多的方式來推動土地稅如果做了相關的優惠也許它是一個誘因我講的是拉力跟腿力我除了給它車輛的優惠我給它充電站的優惠可能也是另外一個我只希望"},{"start":12466.623,"end":12494.838,"text":"財政部因為這個如果免稅減稅會減到地方政府的地方稅所以我希望財政部去統一討論一下是不是找環境部還有我們相關的單位去找到可能給他優惠的機會我們再來研議看看這個可能是除了研議之外我希望它是一個政府淨零碳排目標的一個整體政策裡面考慮的東西裡面的一環是不是另外最後我想還是要問一下跟"},{"start":12495.899,"end":12523.755,"text":"部長問一下我們貨物稅其實在我上任之後3月份就有跟您提到除了碳稅接下來要徵了能源稅最重要的是我們的貨物稅其實非常老舊而且不合時宜電視機跟液晶顯示器一個要徵客貨物稅一個不用現在我們找到很多有趣的冰箱要徵貨物稅可是冰藏屍體的"},{"start":12525.456,"end":12548.015,"text":"施提冷凍櫃沒有貨物稅冰凍雪漿的冰庫也沒有貨物稅可是我們一般人的冰箱有貨物稅這是什麼道理如同委員所說貨物稅確實是一個很奇怪的道理冰屍體、冰雪漿不需要貨物稅冰我家裡的蔬菜水果要貨物稅"},{"start":12549.575,"end":12571.051,"text":"這個貨物稅該檢討了你當時答應我11月會有檢討報告來的嗎?有一個委外報告嘛,對第二個,液晶顯示器跟電視機一個有貨物稅一個沒有錄音機有貨物稅可是手機有錄音功能也沒有貨物稅這個叫做原則性的問題第三個,更有趣的"},{"start":12573.556,"end":12596.981,"text":"積積積積積的飲料要課貨物稅但是手搖杯不用貨物稅這實在是太奇怪了啦部長你的檢討了沒檢討了多少什麼時候會有檢討報告貨物稅該做檢討全面檢討您提的那個沒有錯您提的當時是說11月底這個檢討那個整個報告會出來但是後來因為他要在範圍的關係所以會延到12月這個報告會出來"},{"start":12599.701,"end":12602.082,"text":"梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑梁美芬﹑"},{"start":12617.209,"end":12632.56,"text":"這個東西檢討不是只有我說而是全面性你們要重新去檢討所有貨物稅它的合理性好嗎?12月的報告麻煩部長拿出來第二個就剛剛講的你們下的這些廣告的預算也麻煩在一個禮拜之內把相關的預算資料盤點給我謝謝部長謝謝珊珊委員"},{"start":12637.364,"end":12646.446,"text":"主席在這裡宣布中午我們不休息那12點以後我們開放就是在會場用餐接著請王洪威委員質詢好謝謝主席我請我們財政部長好還有簡莊部長合庫金控董事長來合庫金控董事長"},{"start":12668.479,"end":12690.924,"text":"委員好好部長好那個部長其實剛才啊珊珊委員她講到的貨物稅其實大家都知道貨物稅根本不是一個好稅而且完全不合時宜只是不過這個因為它的稅收實在太多了到明年也有1500億那麼財政部是捨不得這個貨物稅這塊大餅啊"},{"start":12692.764,"end":12706.531,"text":"不然貨物稅當年就是為了要增加稅收所以才會出現這麼多就是已經不合時宜的相關規定那我為什麼叫金控董事長何苦金控董事長也一起上來我想請問部長和董事長"},{"start":12713.618,"end":12728.605,"text":"前一陣子引起軒然大波的台灣今年董事長的任命請問一下部長這位李政章坐了三天就離開台灣今年董事長到底是誰任命的"},{"start":12730.333,"end":12753.885,"text":"跟委員報告對於這個部分台灣金聯是公民營相關金融機構去組成的股權他是誰的代表那他是合庫銀行的股權代表來來我請董事長誰指示您因為呂政章過去跟合庫毫無淵源嘛是誰指示您就是我們合庫代表改派呂政章"},{"start":12756.052,"end":12772.427,"text":"按照規定這個合定的權是在行政院是在行政院只是合庫法人代表改派呂政章是嗎那我也之前我也有跟呂先生聯絡過我也有請"},{"start":12773.348,"end":12791.796,"text":"我知道啊就是你們找他去啊要改派法人代表嘛所以你來的得來的指令是來自於行政院哪個單位呢部長嗎是我們財政部長還是國庫署還是行政院更高層來董事長我這裡聯繫都是國庫署跟國庫署好那我想請問一下部長這個"},{"start":12804.081,"end":12824.268,"text":"李政章作為法院代表是來自於哪個單位的指示?是你指示的嗎?跟委員報告第一個他要去當台灣金聯董事長當然他要必須是股權代表那所以這樣一個人選是經過討論的以後是跟誰討論?所以是財政部討論?我想這個討論大家一起討論這個有關他的資歷跟經歷再做一個討論是"},{"start":12832.15,"end":12859.89,"text":"所以財政部認為他的學經歷背景通通足以擔任台灣經聯嗎?一個公司他有公司治理的一個位置是不是嗎?我現在就是要找你願意擔我就讓你擔啊對啊我覺得他應該在資格上是符合而且大家也期待有關的事業機構能夠有新的一些成為所以這個人選是由您決定嗎?我想最後的核定當然是行政院核定還是行政院對不對?是行政院核定那請問一下"},{"start":12860.95,"end":12877.419,"text":"這個人是因為現在外傳很多連卓榮泰院長都認為這個人選是不OK的所以現在傳出事實上是來自於總統府秘書長潘孟安秘書長的指示跟要求確實如此嗎這個傳言我並不清楚好 所以你也無法證實是 我們無法證實好"},{"start":12886.758,"end":12907.159,"text":"台灣今年董事長短短三天就離開我們來看一下前董事長施敬渝說為什麼他突然被罰官是因為他擋人財路所以他被撤職那麼這個呂政章做了三天就離開的董事長呢"},{"start":12908.632,"end":12922.413,"text":"他說因為現在外傳是因為大老闆就是我們賴清德總統震怒所以我剛剛講說如果你要擔你就去擔喔我覺得這件事情總是要有人把責任擔起來的你這張到底是從哪裡從天上掉下來的禮物嗎"},{"start":12924.96,"end":12940.525,"text":"然後搞到整個高層人士大亂整個政府的威信被破壞走人就了事了嗎好 呂政章在離開台灣今天說有人怕我上任掀太多問題"},{"start":12943.178,"end":12956.552,"text":"請問一下部長台灣今年有什麼問題他說有人怕他掀太多問題一個說我離開是擋人財路一個說我離開是有人怕我掀太多問題台灣今年到底有什麼問題啊部長"},{"start":12959.435,"end":12980.281,"text":"跟委員報告他個人他的辭呈他已經寫得很清楚他為了避免行政團隊一些困擾他辭職這我們尊重他那至於他們個人這說了什麼話我覺得這個東西這個不必去再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼叫做不必再做過多的一些差異這什麼"},{"start":12985.902,"end":13000.067,"text":"你們把高層人士當成兒戲嗎在座這麼多位的我們國營金控的董事長、總經理每一個都要被檢視啊是不是今天突然憑空而降出來的一個造成這麼大的問題三天就離開該不該有人負責啊"},{"start":13010.928,"end":13036.895,"text":"委員報告他都還沒有就任他就任三天所謂的問題我不知道是什麼樣的一個問題是在哪裡因為他還沒有去好我在這邊而已特別跟部長說公司有公司治理的一個規則對不對土地的處分他是一個非常專業估價要經過三家估價公司的一個評估他不是說隨便可以處理的那請問一下施俊群又不是我當董事長是施俊群當董事長那麼多年他說哎呀不要賤賣國土"},{"start":13039.736,"end":13055.532,"text":"所以我在這邊要特別提醒因為我們新任董事長不知道什麼時候才在發布啦但是呢台灣今年因為他擁有非常非常多的土地過去就曾經被媒體質疑我也曾經質詢過台灣今年不要成為一個炒作地皮的幫兇"},{"start":13062.199,"end":13083.908,"text":"因為過去在南部都有指控台灣今年有養地的問題有炒作土地的問題那個是在施俊吉擔任董事長任內然後這次子子這個跟那個工業區雲林的工業區有相關所以我要求的是我們所有的金控公司大家都擁有這麼多的資產"},{"start":13086.852,"end":13091.782,"text":"台灣金聯當年是為了要去解決我們金融機構的不良資產"},{"start":13093.576,"end":13113.434,"text":"結果用一個女政章家族就是製造不良資產的所以部長你怎麼還會在這邊講說他其實是有資格的檢視過他的背景如果你檢視過他的背景家族就是製造不良資產的然後你讓他去處理我們所有金融機構的不良資產像話嗎太丟臉了"},{"start":13118.953,"end":13133.241,"text":"他的家族是他的父親跟他弟弟你知不知道這個公司他是大股東啊你知道他這個公司他控股他自己當任董事長就是這家跳票倒閉製造不良資產的大股東啊你知道嗎你不知道您說是哪一家大股東"},{"start":13139.028,"end":13158.324,"text":"就是若活輕鬆公司啊造成農業金庫5000萬的呆帳對 是農業金庫沒錯農業金庫5000萬呆帳這家公司他說他是他爸爸說是他的什麼弟弟可是他自己本身是這家公司的大股東你們有查過嗎?丟臉吶怎麼會如此兒喜?所以不知道你難道不知道嗎?他本來要去農業金庫欸"},{"start":13168.407,"end":13183.992,"text":"他們本來是要去安插到農業金庫欸農業金庫的這些農運會代表們覺得怎麼可能這樣造成我們這家農業金庫幾千萬呆帳的家族竟然來這邊來當董事長後來還好那個黨下來了如果到農業金庫更丟臉所以部長啊我知道這樣的人士啊絕對來自於高層啊"},{"start":13197.369,"end":13205.812,"text":"但是我拜託今天既然不管國庫署也好部長也好今天的我們核庫監控也好你們能不能做最後一點點的把關的工作能不能啊當然我們會做"},{"start":13218.103,"end":13228.487,"text":"我這邊講這個李政章的問題是我之前就已經都提供過包含農業金庫當選人家農業金庫至少人家還知道把它擋出去耶結果沒想到竟然找來找去找到我們台灣金聯了還真會找耶有關係就沒關係嗎今天我們有多少"},{"start":13241.547,"end":13247.795,"text":"有金融背景出生於基層的就是真的戰戰兢兢的在我們這些公營行庫來幫助守住最後一道防線的情何以堪"},{"start":13259.042,"end":13279.559,"text":"所以老實講我今天花了我很多時間我其實還要問很多的問題可是我覺得這件事情因為我自己以前就是跑金融我覺得過去歷任不管是民進黨執政、國民黨執政還真的沒有出現這麼醜的事情過去醜有很多我也提出過很多但是還沒有發生過這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":13282.657,"end":13297.229,"text":"你這樣子的話老實講我們這次在處理預算問題我本來還要再問包括我們在抽獎出包的問題這也是財政部國庫局啊那個國稅局然後那個四個重複中獎對不起主席我花一點那個四個重複中獎你們反正都說沒問題沒問題"},{"start":13307.679,"end":13328.047,"text":"然後另外你們一個活動十幾個都是姓彭的出現龐大的彭家軍得獎部隊你們有回復嗎?你們有對外說明嗎?然後現在搞到現在說哎呀現在中獎不公告了用私訊來通知得獎人做得真好黑箱到底"},{"start":13333.593,"end":13355.189,"text":"委員沒有所謂的黑箱那至於這家公司它的撰寫邏輯、撰寫程式的邏輯是不是有問題已經跟中獎者之間的關係我們已經移請調查局我們是主動請調查局來偵查另外我有一個要求你們說以後呢中獎通知用私訊通知中獎人不再公告"},{"start":13356.07,"end":13368.435,"text":"不可以必須公告以遭公信我們一定會秉著誠信公開公平的原則一定會照這樣做所以不能再用私訊來通知要公告"},{"start":13375.118,"end":13398.884,"text":"哪裡說就不公告了讓你們看不到為了怕這些得獎者他不知道我們另外再通知他還是會公告的是一個臉書的通知的方式所以你們去通知是另外一回事但是你一定要公告這個文字有公告大家沒有看到誤解了謝謝委員謝謝洪薇接著請羅民財委員花言"},{"start":13411.755,"end":13438.524,"text":"主席、各人、處列席、管理大臣、財政部、莊部長部長莊部長你好委員好統一發票的中獎其實是人民的小確幸那自從統一發票現在有很多雲端電子發票現在的比例大概是多少那麼未來還是會持續做電子發票嗎"},{"start":13440.518,"end":13448.809,"text":"當然因為可以減紙減碳所以應該是朝向五紙化所以應該是朝向雲端發票來做一個發展"},{"start":13450.43,"end":13471.19,"text":"所以以後他中獎的公信力其實有待對外多宣導一下這個部分因為是跟所有人民的利益關係有很多的小學生也好或是國中生、一些家庭主婦每次期待的就是那一張發票可以中獎"},{"start":13472.406,"end":13501.926,"text":"所以千萬一定要公正要公平好不好一定的對於兩個月一次的統一發票開票的中獎我們一定是歷來也都是公正公開的那現在那個主數有沒有多一點啊主數我們會隨著就是說那個發票獎金執行的結果因為有些人中了沒有來領我們就會增加主數對現在的問題就是大家想說那有很多中了獎沒去領的那這些獎金跑去哪裡了"},{"start":13503.087,"end":13517.017,"text":"就會轉到今年如果再增加組數所以我們希望大家運用雲端發票然後下載我們的APP那這樣的話然後設定他的領獎帳號那這樣他不要對獎金都會直接進入他的帳戶那看到就很開心"},{"start":13518.435,"end":13537.03,"text":"副長,你們在座,其實我們也是很相信的但是,為了要讓大眾昭公信,我也是希望說有機會的話,排一下民間的團體,或者是律師、或者會計師等等,現場一起來見證,這樣的話你們也不是比較輕鬆嗎?"},{"start":13538.763,"end":13563.37,"text":"至於每2個月開票、開統一發票的這個部分都一定會有公正公開的做那至於其他辦理其他的那個租稅宣導的一個抽獎活動我們認為要全面做檢討沒有更好的防範機制之前我們寧可不做寧可不要做這個抽獎我想各份都一定要非常謹慎最高獎金是多少哪一個發票統一發票最高獎金是1千萬"},{"start":13564.17,"end":13592.227,"text":"一千萬?哇!不錯勒!那現在每一期有幾張一千萬?每一期不一樣,幾張?每一期的那個特別獎的中獎張數不一定有時候可能會比較多,大概15到17張左右好,來你們多宣導一下有夢最美希望得獎的民眾都可以中一千萬是,謝謝委員我們很期待"},{"start":13594.315,"end":13610.983,"text":"另外這講的就是這個今天的貨物稅的部分貨物稅今天這個要不要讓他過我想這個已經是到今年的12月就屆期我們希望對於有關復康巴士還有載運輪椅使用者的那個車子能夠讓他繼續延長這個"},{"start":13613.884,"end":13620.147,"text":"免徵的貨物稅可以鼓勵讓我們身體行動不方便的人有一個好的行動方便的工具這個要支持因為多照顧弱勢、社會關懷本來就應該要做比較方便一點我們看到現在這個貨物稅我請教一下現在電動車像Tesla進來台灣要不要課稅"},{"start":13642.752,"end":13662.198,"text":"我們這個貨物稅電動車的部分免稅但是小客車要140萬以下的部分免徵140萬以上那個部分是減半所以電動車竟然是免稅的電動車不是全部免稅啊要看那個小客車是一個金額以下那像一樣是小客車現在全世界評比的小米汽車啊"},{"start":13664.019,"end":13693.072,"text":"很便宜然後它的性價比也CP值非常高那請問小米有沒有可能會進來台灣需不需要課稅對於貨物進口小米那個是大陸車現在沒有整車進口不可以進口整車沒有進口現在大陸的不能進整車那如果進的話是不是課重稅呢還是根本就不能進現在是都不能進現在不能進喔因為川普當選了以後"},{"start":13694.062,"end":13712.569,"text":"有很多的關稅壁壘加稅、關稅一定都會面臨很大的調整那比如說美國進口到台灣的貨品我們會不會因為美國他調高我們跟著調高貨物稅"},{"start":13717.027,"end":13742.396,"text":"相關的產品相關的產品我覺得這個部分我們看最後美國川普總統就任以後相關的一些稅制的一些調整我們會持續的觀察部長你要做準備你要沙盤推演一下我們會持續的關注我們國內這個企業不要受到太大的傷害至少我們要承受得起當然我們會關注那像今年"},{"start":13743.476,"end":13751.274,"text":"美國又要求我們軍購要增加那我們跟美國買軍購進來台灣的時候要不要課稅"},{"start":13754.881,"end":13760.322,"text":"是只課關稅是嗎?軍購啊,譬如買F35啊,或是買比較好的武器進來,會課稅嗎?軍購會不會課稅?軍品的話是有免稅的規定,就是說國防部那邊"},{"start":13775.285,"end":13790.19,"text":"他進口的軍品或者是委託廠商進口的軍品是可以免稅的國防部會出具免稅證明那比如說美國要求我們貿易要平衡買了很多波音的飛機現在有很多繼續在買那個進來要不要課稅"},{"start":13794.079,"end":13818.19,"text":"柯基若不是國防使用的應該是要課稅提醒部長想一下貿易戰展開了以後我們會面對怎麼樣的問題如何適時的來調整我們會持續關注新任總統上任以後採取的相關的政策"},{"start":13819.52,"end":13845.061,"text":"那我們接著就看一些民營機構的表現今年的所有的金融機構表現好不好您是指公民營是吧整個金融機構其實獲利應該是不錯的獲利屢創新高啊那你覺得我們所有的公股相關的這些事業機構哪一家表現得比較好"},{"start":13845.96,"end":13873.568,"text":"基本上他們都非常的努力也都在做表現而且每一家其實他們的重點也都不一樣那當然同樣他們也擔負了相關的一些政策的一些任務真的嗎?我看這裡面有一些表現得不錯喔比如說台灣中小企營是,中小企營是因為我們常常在這邊開會我記得幾年前中小企營的股價才七、八塊現在中小企營幾塊了?"},{"start":13874.983,"end":13886.988,"text":"陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":13890.784,"end":13909.843,"text":"趙鋒也不錯,合庫也不錯趙鋒本來就是算是公庫表現比較好的這是模範生第一表現的好不好?好啊第一不錯合庫表現的好不好?合庫也不錯啊他們都是系統性的銀行然後都會受到更多的一些監管那你表現的好的你要鼓勵啊"},{"start":13910.824,"end":13925.679,"text":"我發現在公股的體系裡面你很認真做表現很好比如說公股相關的今天這裡面有一個最強的我查了一下股價經常漲到80塊是哪一家"},{"start":13929.525,"end":13957.716,"text":"在我們在座裡面啊?對啊有八十嗎?不然你管的你都不知道我沒有看照封不是39塊嗎?都39有到八十幾那是不是民營銀行呢?周邊的啦今天就有來我看今天有來啊官貿官貿為什麼官貿?他的表現會那麼傑出是非常傑出我們的稅務系統相關因為他薪水比他們還高啦喔"},{"start":13959.008,"end":13965.412,"text":"所以我一直在這邊提到的是公股相關機構的管理你要讓馬兒要吃草"},{"start":13968.269,"end":13995.283,"text":"結果你都是那個大鍋飯A、B、C大家吃的都通通一樣的級數所以就沒有辦法鼓勵他們嘛公股民營的部分基本上是由他們公司治理的範圍當然國營事業的部分因為受到相關法規的限制那剛剛委員在質詢的時候也都有提到希望能夠對國營事業的金融機構能夠有一些那個好好調整一下放寬一些管束啊"},{"start":13995.523,"end":14012.139,"text":"我們找一個好的經理人可能可以為國家賺更多更多幾倍以上的錢今年稅收大概要超徵多少今年的話中央數大概會超過預算數大概3000億那中央的貨物3000億本席還是要拜託部長"},{"start":14016.462,"end":14031.12,"text":"苦民所苦民眾現在物價飆漲生活苦拜託優先超徵稅收還稅於民今年有沒有機會來編一下一個人一萬塊紅包委員沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":14032.574,"end":14054.191,"text":"那你可以想想看啊 可以提啊因為現在民眾真的很期盼不信的話莊部長你去做一下民意調查就是說政府今年稅收又超徵30千億如果這些錢不要亂花優先來分給每一個民眾一個人加發紅包一萬塊"},{"start":14055.652,"end":14075.207,"text":"你來做一個民意調查看看大家贊不贊成委員我想政府部門對於需要幫助、輔助的一個民眾都會努力的在做所以我們社福支出事實上是目前來說稅出裡面占最高大概到26%、27%那是對真正需要的人政府應該我們有這樣好的一個財政我們累積財政的能量可以讓需要需要獲得資源的部分可以獲得更好的資源我覺得比對更重要"},{"start":14084.554,"end":14099.131,"text":"你講這個我也接受啦因為每一次我們在財委會多年來要替民眾要紅包爭取福利第一個財政部一定說NO但是我希望部長回去還是想想看或是民意調查調出來以後"},{"start":14099.571,"end":14123.685,"text":"如果民眾有這個需要拜託拜託一個人發紅包一萬塊拜託謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝羅明財委員部長這個羅委員諮詢非常高招你千萬不要讓他分化你跟宮古銀行的感情接著請王世堅委員發言"},{"start":14140.052,"end":14143.513,"text":"謝謝主席 我請部長 總部長好 請部長委員好部長 今天兩個問題第一個問題就是我上禮拜那麼我在質詢金管會彭諸葳的時候我跟他提到我們央行有一項規定就是針對我們所有"},{"start":14167.43,"end":14193.104,"text":"銀行那貸款給建商這種空地貸款有個限令就是空地貸款必須在18個月內一年半當中取得建造來開工這是貸款的條件那這個規定行之十數年、二十年之久啦那結果我問了一下"},{"start":14195.589,"end":14221.142,"text":"這個各銀行我就問我們九大公營行庫就是說這貸款超過18個月還沒有開工這樣子的案件有多少金額多大結果我得到的答覆哇大吃一驚嚇了一跳總金額啊銀行體系貸款"},{"start":14222.965,"end":14248.075,"text":"九大公營行戶貸款給建商空地貸款超過18個月的金額竟然高達2180億之多啦2180億之多那當然九大公營行戶人家有的模範生像易營、像這個鍾曉慶人家都是"},{"start":14252.515,"end":14280.39,"text":"十來億而已很小的金額啦這裡面最大金額的竟然是我們公股百分之百關股的土地銀行土地銀行光它一家就高達1173億它一家啊就會另外八大公營行庫加起來總和"},{"start":14281.989,"end":14292.074,"text":"還不夠他多這已經到不可思議的地步啦所以部長因為九大公營安庫董事長、總經理都你派的"},{"start":14293.226,"end":14316.631,"text":"所以我除了要求金管會要嚴加查查以外我今天就是要問你要問九大公營行庫董事長、總經理你們對貸款給建商裡面多數都是不效建商才會這麼做貸款去買了工地之後擺著"},{"start":14318.615,"end":14327.981,"text":"不開工、不申請建造他擺明了就是買地、養地、圈地就是這麼簡單欸部長2000我把尾數刪掉2000億就好建地我們抓100萬一坪的就好"},{"start":14338.119,"end":14365.532,"text":"兩千億可以買一百萬的建地買二十萬坪欸也就是說我們公營航庫體系隨時啊擺著兩千億給這些不孝建商拿去買地、全地、養地並向的助長他們炒作房地產並向的助長不孝建商拉抬房價"},{"start":14367.479,"end":14378.108,"text":"難怪難怪我們全國各地不只首都而已喔你看這兩三年來房地產這個漲幅過去我們社會還有那麼多中產階級現在中產階級通通變成烏奴因為房地產大幅上漲啊"},{"start":14394.446,"end":14406.37,"text":"這大幅上漲背後的幫兇竟然是我們公營航庫最大的幫兇就是土地銀行董事長站起來董事長你站起來何董張總我不曉得你們來多久啦我今天把數字跟你講1173億你怎麼解決"},{"start":14426.974,"end":14442.984,"text":"到9月、10月好各少掉200多億額度減減個200多億這樣還不夠啦土地銀行不要拿這個當藉口我私下找你們問的時候你們說土地銀行是專業的建築融資土地融資主席請再上來"},{"start":14451.085,"end":14479.501,"text":"我以為主席請他坐下不會啦謝謝主席那個你們的私下答覆說你們是專業的啊專業的建築融資、土地融資沒錯你是專業沒錯你借的金額也超大沒錯你總計你這些房地的借款"},{"start":14480.643,"end":14502,"text":"一兆4800億沒錯可是跟你一樣大的人家台灣銀行一兆4000也是800他多你還多你14億一兆4819億人家台灣銀行當然也不少啦也不少他預期18個月的142億142億剛好你的尾數你比他多1000億"},{"start":14511.072,"end":14530.56,"text":"好了 其他人家 三商營這個我剛剛講 義營是模範營郎阿他借的也不比你少欸比你少啦 他大概你的一半喔但是 人家只有12億那 莊營更不用講"},{"start":14532.237,"end":14547.491,"text":"張瑩啊 貸放債建築土地融資的一兆五千億 超過你結果張瑩預期的金額也是你的尾數才148億所以你怎麼解釋這個啦所以 那個 那個部長"},{"start":14556.547,"end":14573.917,"text":"你是他們政治的母親啦你拉拔他們出來的嘛所以這件事我就交給你啦好不好好 謝謝委員我想這個部分委員所說的就超過18個月還沒有動工的購地貸款這個數額確實要給處理跟控制然後也不能過度的集中是"},{"start":14575.356,"end":14599.463,"text":"那就交給你啦好不好其他各銀行我就不多念啦那個比較多的齁超過200億的我稍微念一下何故林董事長、王總經理你226億喔我讓你知道一下啦好不好跟義營、台信營去學習嘛"},{"start":14601.136,"end":14623.928,"text":"問他們人家是怎麼控管的好不好他們有當一回事啊好不好合作金庫本來在我的名單裡面你們算是模範銀行欸結果暫時把你踢除啦吼好那部長我就敲給你啦兩位董事長總經理請回吼謝謝委員我還有第二個問題"},{"start":14628.035,"end":14643.901,"text":"今天第二個問題就要跟你談到說我們台灣我們國家我們台灣人民就是那麼慈苦耐勞我們的超額儲蓄率這幾年確實逐年創新高這非常的好我們超額儲蓄率從"},{"start":14645.803,"end":14655.921,"text":"大約5年前開始每年2.23兆之後都突破3兆以上到了今年預期我們可能超額儲蓄3.84兆"},{"start":14659.079,"end":14669.251,"text":"草原儲蓄率高達15.46%這個在避逆這些先進國家包括德國它才4.2%日本2.1%韓國1.8%美國更扯它是負數負1.8%那這些都是正面現在問題是說我們如何"},{"start":14679.622,"end":14705.185,"text":"把我們國家國民辛苦所得超額的這個儲蓄率跟資金如何把它引導到能夠參與我們國家的公共建設也就是說民間參與公共建設但是隨著我們超額儲蓄增加但是民間參與公共建設這個量能都沒有明顯成長我光統計"},{"start":14707.949,"end":14722.919,"text":"107人到現在這6年裡面從83件捧接的那一件來有時候稍微增加到90幾件最高來到172件到去年才100件金額也都大概在1000出頭億今年大概去年總結1876億我為什麼跟你講這個呢就是說這裡面啦這個金額齁"},{"start":14735.151,"end":14762.062,"text":"我們還是財政部還是把其他法令參與公共建設的都算進去欸欸部長我現在列給你看了這個說去年100屆1876億你是把比方說他是根據大眾捷運法他根據國有財產法他根據都市更新條例這種獎勵的你通通算進去這些不單單只是"},{"start":14765.469,"end":14784.496,"text":"這個促進促參法的這個所以也就是說如果單就促參法而言我們那個成效更差結果促參法的推動我們不是沒花錢部長你編的這不是你編的啦你的前年他編102年到110年所謂的促參忠誠計畫花了7億2千萬"},{"start":14792.898,"end":14818.011,"text":"花了7億2千萬就要鋪通下去你看就是剛才那個成績啊沒什麼成績那麼花了這些錢以後促參法占民間投資總額不到三成只占24.79%我現在表格上列給你的右下角24.79花了那些錢下去欸"},{"start":14821.22,"end":14828.506,"text":"說只是去推動促參法喔只是去推動喔就要花那些預算結果結論24.79%今年右邊啦部長在您任內"},{"start":14835.475,"end":14858.524,"text":"你的任內不是今年編的啦前年編的編到114年為止要五億一千萬所以部長我就跟你說這五億一千七百萬這是你任內的這你責無旁貸你一定要監督這一筆錢下去推動出產法它的成效是怎樣好不好部長"},{"start":14861.475,"end":14885.046,"text":"委員跟委員報告您提到差額儲蓄的部分確實我們是希望把民間資金都投入到國家的公共建設那促餐是其中一個方式當然也有依照非促餐法來做那同樣也是民間投資的譬如它依照電業法或者是蔣餐條例的交通建設等等都有那包含商港法也是那促餐法的部分在我們110"},{"start":14886.567,"end":14901.436,"text":"一年修正以後展開了所謂促餐2.0我們會希望做得更大的一個部分那也一直都在相關的執法也都在訂定當中我們希望這個部分會加大力道來推動促餐主席我一分鐘你提完我再跟你講最後的結論是"},{"start":14906.571,"end":14921.285,"text":"有要繼續補充嗎?我跟你講有啊你有做嘛你也編了預算是前一筆7億多的那不是你任內算的再來這一筆這是你任內一直到明年這5億1000萬所以我認為這一筆預算你要嚴格去監督去推動是的"},{"start":14926.03,"end":14946.564,"text":"主要的不是那幾億啦主要的是要有成效不要再讓我們看到說什麼24.79%我認為啦參與民間參與公共建設提前終止契約是一個大問題那提前終止契約這個問題齁我統計了一下我統計了一下我們大概"},{"start":14947.805,"end":14960.487,"text":"提前解約的大概佔了12%每年大概實踐金額大概到1300億左右所以部長我是建議這樣啦因為我們促產法是不是在推動我們應該納入"},{"start":14963.059,"end":14990.121,"text":"強制仲裁這個規定也就是說如果有這些爭議的時候那趕快快速解決要不然你比方說像比方說像屏東大鵬灣現在就爛在那裡啊結果我們政府也花了那麼多錢那擺在那個地方地方的民眾看著眼看著很心急光光沒辦法起色政府也花了錢那好在那邊不知道要拖到何年何月何時所以是不是促三法應該把"},{"start":14992.562,"end":15018.534,"text":"這個強制仲裁這個規定納進去以公共利益最大化為優先來考量好不好在初三法修正的時候曾經有想走強制仲裁但是後來因為法治上因為不符合因為仲裁必須是雙方合一但是也有說廠商提供仲裁機關不能進去我們再用書面再做一般的我都會同意啦只是政府不同意啦"},{"start":15018.894,"end":15023.039,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝我們再用書面跟你們補充 謝謝時間委員接著我們請羅廷維、委員花妍謝謝昭偉 有請部長部長"},{"start":15040.595,"end":15063.589,"text":"委員好好部長今天有審查貨物稅條例剛剛我們陳玉正委員跟我們一些委員也有一個修正動議關於機車的貨物稅的調整我們也希望能夠極力來爭取也希望財政部這部分能夠納入考量那今天我想先請問一下部長您有沒有最近或者是有這樣的經驗去過預售屋巡駕房屋的一個價格"},{"start":15065.892,"end":15070.236,"text":"蔣麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委蔣麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委"},{"start":15088.49,"end":15097.458,"text":"竟然最大的是我們的公股我想這一部分應該要實際來做檢討我們就是實際在幫建商在養地嘛您認同嗎"},{"start":15099.455,"end":15126.269,"text":"這個部分我們銀行公股銀行都已經納入這個部分所以是不是應該檢討對於超過18個月而沒有動工的購地貸款都有在做檢查所以我從前面的我們去預售屋的一個巡駕到現在整個18月未動工這部分應該整體來做一個環環相扣的一個考量後續我要再提到的是自從2012年12月提出的清安貸款到2023年8月又進一步推出新清安貸款這十幾年來房價不斷的飆漲"},{"start":15127.79,"end":15157.07,"text":"丁之所得成長卻非常有限通膨又再加上來本席想問的是到底這十幾年來有沒有追蹤歷年申請核准清安後在這個寬限期結束後還能繼續繳交每月本期的有多少人或者是連寬限期都還沒有結束就已經斷頭的十幾年下來還能夠按部就班交貸款的有多少有沒有這個數據"},{"start":15161.691,"end":15172.315,"text":"從開始辦一直到現在他的違約率其實只有0.04%換言之絕大部分的貸款戶都是依約在繳還本息的"},{"start":15173.12,"end":15198.115,"text":"好 如果有統計的數據能不能在散會後給這個本席以及財政委員會所有委員一份資料是 我們在提供書面的統計資料好 我要講的是如果2023年以前的親安貸款戶大多都能夠繼續繳交貸款推出新親安的這個精進方案我們當然樂觀其成可是現在我們看到新親安的精進方案它已經變相吸引年輕人入坑你有感覺到嗎"},{"start":15199.309,"end":15215.152,"text":"委員我想不是變相吸引年輕人入坑我們其實在這個統計裡面我們知道這個部分呢其實雖然我們有放寬限期到5年事實上沒有用寬限期的佔了51%3年的佔了14%5年的是25%所以大部分的青年人買了以後他還是希望能夠盡快還清他的貸款本金"},{"start":15223.954,"end":15250.532,"text":"所以我想他們在買房子的時候一定有經過相關的財務上的一些評估那為什麼最近我們還要去做檢討呢我想我一直以來都跟部長在講您的數據有沒有錯可是跟實際面會不會有一點點不一樣或者是很大大的不一樣我想這個部分到底經濟方案從寬限期從3年延到5年房貸期限從30年延長到40年本席想請教部長一個刑犯的一個問題請問凌遲30刀"},{"start":15253.134,"end":15256.757,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":15282.174,"end":15307.271,"text":"這就是我們現在對於年輕人他接收到了清安貸款他可能不知道整個後續的安排但你們的數據裡面卻只告訴我們說沒有啊能夠持續繳交貸款的還很多啊我想跟實際面真的有一些差距現在年輕人很多都買不起房根本的原因就是房價不斷的飆漲薪水又沒有什麼增加30年的房貸之下買不起40年的房貸則算成現在的總本"},{"start":15307.731,"end":15332.854,"text":"立和更是買不起利息雖然有補貼一碼半但還是要繳交我想坦白講本席認為就算無息只要償還本金很多人還是買不起根本的問題就是房價高到買不起所以又何必從30年拉長到40年呢寬限期從3年延長到5年讓人以為買得起一旦寬限期一過讓整個聯盟代理暴漲的金額我想年輕人真的是最後"},{"start":15333.494,"end":15346.894,"text":"會承擔整個風險跟斷頭的一個問題整個新清安貸款現在所面臨到的問題從媒體不斷的報導從實際我們所接觸到的問題我希望財政部能夠更全面的去了解來解決 可以嗎"},{"start":15347.981,"end":15365.397,"text":"中委員報告我們銀行在核貸的時候都會讓當事人知道試算給他看他如果用幾年的寬限期以後每月繳交多少錢都會算給他而且我們的銀行在核貸的時候也會了解他的收入狀況這個在核貸之前都會做相關的審核的"},{"start":15366.274,"end":15393.146,"text":"我想從你的口中所提到的讓我來感覺到我們現在所面臨到的問題是真正無殼蝸牛他買不起房沒辦法去做這樣子的一個行為而你們一直在反應的是這些人他們都有經濟能力他們繳得起那他到底是不是心清安真正要解決的這些無殼蝸牛的青年我們都有待考驗所以我希望真正解決到青年無殼蝸牛他們第一次購房的一個需求"},{"start":15395.446,"end":15412.811,"text":"謝謝羅廷惟委員部長那個書面的一個報告給那個羅廷惟委員謝謝鄭天才、鄭天才、鄭天才委員不到楊瓊英、楊瓊英、楊瓊英委員不到接著我們請羅志強委員主席有請部長好我們請財政部莊部長"},{"start":15428.083,"end":15450.733,"text":"委員好部長請問你買過大樂透或威力彩嗎沒有耶沒有啊您作為公益彩券的主管機關我建議你還是要買一下啦好起碼體驗一下吧好對你直接到店裡走到入口隨便一家去體驗你是主管機關總是要體驗一下好那你想請教大樂透跟威力彩有公佈得獎人嗎"},{"start":15453.1,"end":15480.522,"text":"公布的獎額有沒有公布得獎人得獎人應該沒有沒有啊你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人還是很多民眾會去買因為根本不知道誰得獎欸為什麼大家去買那當然去買的人都希望有一些希望嘛存著心中的一個美好的希望對啊我告訴你去買的人就是因為相信政府啦沒錯吧那我如果說講希望的話我也可以再辦一個大樂透對不對大家來跟我買"},{"start":15481.668,"end":15509.771,"text":"那中獎是我決定來誰中獎會有人來買嗎委員意思就是說政府在辦這一類的這樣的時候第一個很重要的就是誠信公開公正公平我覺得這個是一定要做到的所以我想部長你也知道我要質詢哪個題目我要特別講你們辦的那個雲端種數區一起集點數的抽獎活動那現在已經在網路上是炸開很多人真的這件事情就是"},{"start":15510.99,"end":15531.708,"text":"足以潰體啊就是讓財政部的公信力受損的話那政府辦的任何抽獎大家都會質疑啊那我們再提出來這個就是有四位民眾重複中大獎那時候我跟財政部曾經質詢過這機率多少啊?機率多大?天文數字吧"},{"start":15532.452,"end":15549.692,"text":"我知道很多人去試算了一下,可能是什麼兆分之一啊,大家都在那邊試算當然我覺得這個事情,這個廠商在這個程式的邏輯上,用很多的方式是有問題的來來來,然後你們說要去檢討嘛,我有看到你們檢討報告那我想請問部長,你對這個檢討報告滿意嗎?"},{"start":15554.755,"end":15577.725,"text":"我們第一個就行政調查的部分我們做到第一個我們相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係包含三金等一類都不是我這樣講好了第二個就是說在他發票取得的部分我跟你講我就報告來跟你說是政府公信力三大基礎啦公平公正公開嘛對不對你的報告說齁廠商齁他沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式你辦個抽獎一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧"},{"start":15584.858,"end":15608.56,"text":"你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正第二個你又說他才調高積極參加者之全數值給予優先抽獎機會嘛對不對那怎麼調高我想第一我先問問廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式事前有讓財政部知道嗎你們同意嗎台北國稅局主辦這個我們也詢問過他並沒有告知台北國稅局對啊"},{"start":15609.997,"end":15620.254,"text":"你們也知道這會有問題的吧因為這會傷公信利的嘛然後第二個他可以採調高積極參加者全職給予優先抽獎的機會他決定啦 對不對"},{"start":15621.545,"end":15647.561,"text":"對 所以這個部分我們認為就是有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯第三個我覺得是財政部幫我最不能接受的地方你說每位抽獎者能否中獎取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數尚難計算其中獎率你財政部主辦的抽獎到時候你告訴人家中獎率你都算不出來那我想請問"},{"start":15649.383,"end":15661.699,"text":"那請問我怎麼相信你在後面的後台比如說我後台怎麼調抽獎方式就後台決定啊如果這一套模式是用在大樂透你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊"},{"start":15663.41,"end":15688.92,"text":"我們這個部分才請檢調去調查局去做調查我跟部長說啊檢調當然要去查可是這一個所謂的抽獎的整個的流程你事前沒有掌握然後呢事後的報告你寫的這種狀況我居然就提油救火嘛網路上評價這個報告叫裝效為報告啊你知道嗎你根本沒有沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊"},{"start":15689.915,"end":15716.771,"text":"什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式他可以後台自己去調高所謂的所謂積極參加者那我就問嘛積極參加者什麼叫積極參加者到底多少張發票收集叫積極參加者部分我們去把它檢視它的程式以後我們誠實的去呈現也就是跟一般認為說這種隨機抽獎最後我跟部長說我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分部長最後要跟您說啦題愧已穴啦"},{"start":15720.404,"end":15739.849,"text":"因為財政部不管是我們的發票對不對首獎一千萬動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的那個威力彩這些公益彩券其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦我相信政府的公正我覺得政府不會搞我嘛一定是公平公正嘛"},{"start":15740.609,"end":15760.717,"text":"可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動大家覺得你不公平不公正當然就會開始對政府產生懷疑阿我跟部長不客氣的講當我質詢這個題目上個禮拜的時候底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼公益彩券阿我們當然不樂見這種情形可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好"},{"start":15761.67,"end":15773.655,"text":"不能讓他再發聲好 謝謝謝謝委員 郭子強委員那鄭振全、鄭振全、鄭振全委員不在那我們接著請洪曼凱委員好 主席謝謝麻煩請莊部長好 我們請莊部長"},{"start":15787.364,"end":15792.85,"text":"陳部長我延續了齁短問因為我覺得財政機關稅務機關其實讓國人相信或是讓國人願意說我誠實納稅繳稅就是因為認為是說財政機關、稅務機關是資珠必較不會多算、不會少算"},{"start":15804.042,"end":15819.867,"text":"但是這一次的這個抽獎雲端發票的疑雲確實讓國人很嚴重懷疑所以你的報告裡面講說善男計算其中獎率到目前為止還是沒有辦法計算出來是不是"},{"start":15820.816,"end":15846.392,"text":"跟委員報告由於他那個程式我們拿出來檢視以後他有很...我怎麼講很複雜他去看寫了很多對對對跟一般認為有那個隨機去抽的那個完全邏輯不太一樣那這樣到底公不公平所以這個部分我們就很誠實的去呈現這樣的對不對那你身為主管機關你現在也不知道說你旗下廠商辦了一個抽獎活動到底公平或不公平"},{"start":15846.732,"end":15869.471,"text":"所以我們請 這樣的調查報告我們就請調查局去調查我們請調查局去做調查第二個部分 對 來第二個部分 你 兩點嘛第一個是說你還沒有辦法計算其中獎率所以也沒打算算了反正中獎率我算不出來那第二個部分是善待司法調查確認設計的邏輯是不是超越本活動目的的必要範圍"},{"start":15870.856,"end":15880.784,"text":"所以也交給司法去處理我們身為主管機關發包了這樣的一個案子我們也沒有任何的我們是甲方啊但我們沒有任何的這個控管的機制"},{"start":15882.773,"end":15905.705,"text":"呃...要檢討我認為這個案子確實要深切的檢討以後再辦相關的活動都不能有這樣的一個情形不管事前、事中、事後都要加強那我請教我們現在的這樣的一個合約這一個活動我們對於乙方有什麼樣的一個要求措施當然要依照合約來執行我想這個台北國稅局會也會在進行這方面的處理嗯"},{"start":15907.133,"end":15934.336,"text":"是啊不是啊部長現在已經過去了兩個禮拜了我們本來以為欸其實這個議題說實在部長會不會覺得有點無視了塵埃啊照理講我們下個這個預算會期大家在講的是財政部以往也沒有那麼擄主過啊然後結果突然間你在院會也被問院長也被問財政委員會我們也在關心我不是無地放矢啊我也不是吃飽太閒啊真的是因為你們自己拿石頭砸自己的腳"},{"start":15935.177,"end":15951.718,"text":"而這個檢討報告出來之後又讓國人更加沒有辦法接受就是你已經給你們兩個禮拜了院長在院會信誓旦旦講是說一定會告訴國人結果你們檢討報告出來還是你們不知道中獎機率不知道公不公平不知道反正司法會調查出來"},{"start":15953.099,"end":15969.367,"text":"我們就行政調查的部分我想在我們報告裡面已經有呈現的已經有呈現的很清楚包含人的部分以及發票取得方式當然我們知道這件事情不應該要發生的也就是說財政部過往所做的許多的活動也好或者是稅務的申報也好讓國人信任是長時間累積下來的但是一件這樣的一個活動讓財政部受損我覺得這是一個非常不應該的一個事情確實是"},{"start":15979.532,"end":15990.169,"text":"因此對於我們以後再類似的我們一定要深刻檢討不容再發生這樣的一個情形好 那既然這樣的話本席也看到好像8月我們相關的這個"},{"start":15993.741,"end":16005.023,"text":"雲端眾數去的粉絲專頁同案也有所謂的AI繪圖人氣網比賽現在本來有講是說要在10月25號終極抽獎記者會然後有獲得超商的禮券但是這個粉專又公佈說AI人氣網比賽得獎名單暫緩公佈我想請教現在會不會一波未評一波又起"},{"start":16023.736,"end":16040.592,"text":"這個是另外一個是一樣的粉絲專頁啊這個粉絲專頁是雲端眾數據一起集點數在11月7號的時候又發布就說同案的AI人氣網比賽得獎名單要等待調查結果確認無誤才另行辦理公告"},{"start":16041.738,"end":16053.386,"text":"跟委員報告所以下面網友講習有國防部、金有財政部啊那部是那個遮掩的部啊等於是把財政部跟以前國防部這樣子給類比啊部長"},{"start":16056.35,"end":16078.33,"text":"我想這個事情台北國稅局可能在做這個的時候想得也不周延然後造成一些誤解也就是說您剛剛講了一波微評一波又起然後我們已經先開記者會先做一個說明是告訴大家我們其他的活動其實都是按照誠信公開公開原則我覺得這個部分都要深切檢討整個活動這些事情都要去做"},{"start":16081.372,"end":16107.714,"text":"為什麼又延後了呢?如果說你們已經開記者會已經公告了你們已經有調查、有了解、有介入結果到現在還又要延後11月7號的時候又說要再延後得獎名單等等的部分那難道不會讓大家外界更質疑嗎?對,這個部分要檢討你這沒有直寫部長你除了持續跳針說檢討以外我覺得現在財政部沒有直寫"},{"start":16109.493,"end":16133.614,"text":"每說一句或每公開一句就是讓國人如果越來越不相信我覺得這不是國家之福我知道委員是一個深切的一個期許我覺得這個部分國稅局在做這個部分確實有點不夠周延是不是會後一共書面的報告給洪孟凱委員如果說這書面報告來還是一樣沒有答案的報告也不要浪費紙了"},{"start":16135.015,"end":16139.259,"text":"因為這一個活動一開始叫做雲端種樹其實就是要節省職場"},{"start":16141.38,"end":16166.882,"text":"我覺得這很痛心啦!是!我知道!我知道!同樣的!我也一樣!是!好!謝謝!謝謝孟楷委員!林倩琦、林倩琦、林倩琦委員不在!何新淳、何新淳、何新淳委員不在!高鈞素梅、高鈞素梅、高鈞素梅委員不在!蔡玉瑜、蔡玉瑜、蔡玉瑜委員不在!吳思瑤、吳思瑤、吳思瑤委員不在!接著我們請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":16178.245,"end":16205.279,"text":"謝謝主席事事可以麻煩有請第一位財政部莊部長財政部莊部長然後第二位土銀何董事長土銀董事長第三位第一金礦邱董事長第一金礦邱董事長第四位合作金庫林董事長合作金庫然後台灣中小企銀劉董事長台灣中小企銀劉董事長"},{"start":16207.534,"end":16209.095,"text":"我也好部長、各位董事長時間關係不一一問候首先先請核庫董事長核庫董事長台灣金聯本來核庫派去的法派是施俊錡嗎?"},{"start":16235.057,"end":16240.017,"text":"是那後來換成了一位呂先生嗎是那這個是誰要你換的"},{"start":16242.131,"end":16264.409,"text":"報告委員因為這個是公股事業機構裡面的聯繫事項那國庫署有跟我們通知那所以齁上面有很多董事長來每一家銀行幾乎都有法派到這個台灣接連去嘛所以你們法派到底是誰去當董事這件事情是由財政部直接指揮對不對"},{"start":16267.354,"end":16288.692,"text":"董事長的核定權是在行政院那董事的法派是銀行這裡所以我就具體的問你核庫把施俊錡換下來施俊錡本來是你們核庫的法派是財政部通知你把它換下來的是嗎國庫署國庫署你通知你換下來的時候有給理由嗎"},{"start":16293.2,"end":16317.685,"text":"有告訴你說為什麼要把他換下來嗎那個請董事長回答國務署告訴我們的時候他是沒有具名理由因為他沒有具名理由因為按照公股事業管理的部分如果說超過68歲的時候是應該應該是來我們來看一下齁我們國家的制度啊我老實講有一點畸形啊"},{"start":16318.635,"end":16344.787,"text":"法人董事這個制度本身在公司法裡面有很多討論但我們尊重既有的制度就按照既有的制度來談這個法人董事是你們合庫派的嗎是好來請教一下合庫喔針對台灣今年這幾年營運的表現合庫作為派出法人董事你派出的法人董事容認董事長覺得他的績效如何"},{"start":16346.391,"end":16373.084,"text":"他的部分我們每一年都有進行考核那你覺得他的績效如何阿如果是按照他這幾年的績效是維持相對的穩定他的EPS阿看起來啦我老實講我也有去看你們核庫的EPS啦你們核庫的EPS也沒有比人家高多少啦我說的沒有錯吧沒有錯我們一年大概一點多對啊"},{"start":16375.013,"end":16395.962,"text":"這樣子的績效表現還無預警被判下來換一位訓理的先生來我請教一下部長台灣今年歷任的董事長有哪一位是沒有財經背景的歷任的董事長當然有好幾位是有哪幾位沒有財經背景的說給大家聽"},{"start":16405.415,"end":16432.653,"text":"財經背景沒有財經背景的因為我大概就知道是最近的幾位嘛最近的幾位都沒有財經背景喔應該是有吧應該是有喔來來來我給您看啊我把台灣今年歷任的董事長啊您不用背啊我全部都把它列在上面啊我全部都把它列在上面啊歷任的董事長沒有財經背景的兩位"},{"start":16433.988,"end":16455.151,"text":"一位林美珠一位林美珠我們前總統的親戚當過勞動部部長部長你知不知道他幹了幾天下台一天吧一天嘛現在這位呂先生是第二位啊呂先生是第二位為什麼我把他全部列出來台灣今年欸"},{"start":16456.494,"end":16484.26,"text":"是我們每一個銀行要派法人董事耶接受財政部的命令啊共同撐起來的一家公司啊給他當董事長只要有政治酬庸下場就像今天這個樣子讓所有的國人看得瞠目結舌啊國醫師院拿來當酬庸已經讓人沒有辦法接受了結果竟然當兒戲啊竟然當兒戲啊"},{"start":16486.647,"end":16514.646,"text":"上任以後三天就辭職所以台灣今年的董事長看起來不是很重要嗎台灣今年的董事長這個位置重要嗎部長每一家公司的董事長當然都是重要的如果重要的話幹了三天就辭職了我想他的辭職書的內容大家他也都有說明了是呂戰章啊他政治上面的背景之前記者會都講過我就不多說了啦"},{"start":16516.223,"end":16533.272,"text":"他的任命恐怕也不是部長你可以決定的吧是誰決定要用呂政章的部長是您決定的嗎這個人事案的核定是在權責是在行政院是在行政院嗎核定權是在行政院所以這個人是你提上去的還是行政院交辦下來的當然這邊是由我們財政部簽辦的"},{"start":16534.312,"end":16562.382,"text":"是你簽辦上去的嘛然後你跟大家解釋一下你當初為什麼會簽呂政章上去我們講對這個部分對他個人的相關的經濟力我們都有所了解是所以你了解而已會就提一個沒有財經背景的之前沒有辦法幹農業金庫的董作可以幹台灣金聯的董作所以我才請教你嘛台灣金聯的董作這個位置重不重要嘛如果重要的話我們的財政部啊把它當兒戲喔"},{"start":16564.492,"end":16585.178,"text":"我們是沒有把他當兒戲的如果沒有把他當兒戲的話幹了三天就下來部長會不會覺得很遺憾他不應該辭應該繼續幹下去我想他個人在辭職的理由在說明書裡面都有說到了我們尊重他個人對啊你找了一個人只幹了三天就不幹了你不會覺得很丟臉嗎你們當初在選這個人的時候有慎重嗎"},{"start":16591.052,"end":16618.341,"text":"你說是你簽上去的嘛簽了幹了三天就下台財政部都不用負責今天你如果說是卓榮泰決定的那卓榮泰負責嘛但你剛剛說什麼是你簽上去的啊所以我才請教你人怎麼選的嘛你人怎麼選的幹了三天以後就下台部長你有沒有什麼話講說你從這件事情裡面你有沒有得到任何的教訓"},{"start":16619.688,"end":16648.022,"text":"還是這一次人事的作業財政部的作業完備、完整、專業他幹三天就下台是我們國家的損失部長你從這一次的試驗當中到底得到了什麼教訓、學到了什麼我想委員您說的也很清楚當然我們在用人上是要謹慎沒有錯好這一次一個主席站起來了現在他辭職以後這個位置懸缺嘛"},{"start":16648.807,"end":16671.128,"text":"目前是由總經理代理是是是那我會一直代理下去嗎當然這個部分我們會另外做考量對我只講一件事啦我希望喔這次重新任命的時候財政部簽出來的人是要真的有專業讓社會幸福的人不要用政治酬庸的方式啦"},{"start":16672.15,"end":16697.267,"text":"找一個莫名其妙的人上去啊到時候社會大反彈啊我希望這一次財政部的人事作業啊真的要慎重啊不要犯一樣的錯誤 可以嗎是的 謝謝委員好 謝謝黃國昌委員接著我們請張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在胡坤祺、胡坤祺、胡坤祺委員不在接著我們請陳佩儀委員"},{"start":16706.8,"end":16710.864,"text":"好 謝謝主席 委員會準時4分鐘 有請財政部長好 我們請莊部長"},{"start":16716.072,"end":16743.006,"text":"委員好部長我要先恭喜財政部跟我們宮古航庫還有台灣煙酒公司為什麼呢因為你們在今年體育署的體育推手獎當中我們又達到了幾乎是全壘打成績我覺得這真的是國家帶頭示範貫徹企業社會責任的最好示範我要先恭喜財政部但是呢部長有一件事情你應該有印象我跟你講了非常非常非常非常非常多次都是跟您直接"},{"start":16743.806,"end":16757.597,"text":"陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委員陳琦等16人、委"},{"start":16762.541,"end":16785.349,"text":"自己去找職業工會加保你有沒有覺得聽起來怪怪的我們來看下一頁之前我也跟您分享過我們去問過勞動部部長部長說這沒有法律的問題只有意願的問題我知道您的幕僚會跟你說怕加保了之後他就變成正式員工啊可是他就不是正式員工那部長我跟您分享相關的案例人家怎麼做的我們來看下一頁"},{"start":16786.775,"end":16802.27,"text":"同樣在我們郭志輝部長企業球隊他們有加保而且是兼職的員工中華電信約聘球員有沒有加保有民間企業在彰化伯利利蘭球隊伯利利蘭球隊裡面也有加保Loyal內部長"},{"start":16803.311,"end":16824.48,"text":"那可是難道是我們這些民間企業太不聰明或是我們中華電信太不聰明了嗎他們不懂得叫選手自己去外面簽所以但是你們財政部我剛剛講的卻可以一再的放任我覺得這樣對於選手對於相關的勞動權益真的非常的不尊重更何況賴清德總統即將要讓我們行政院成立"},{"start":16825.48,"end":16846.739,"text":"運動部那我們是這樣對待所謂這些運動選手的嗎我看你的目牙在跟你搖手我還是覺得聽起來我怕等一下聽到很可怕的訊息這樣這是第一個問題第二個問題我想要問喔公股銀行對於運動團隊跟單項協會有贊助我們來看一下這是你們給我們的資料你們今年要在1、2年度捐贈給中華民國足球協會"},{"start":16848.04,"end":16865.731,"text":"這個非常多惡行惡狀有非常多新聞的協會例如說像女足球員道歉、作廢合約因為他們簽了不當的合約或者是在比賽的時候或是相關的欠薪有非常非常多爭議的足協你們在1、1、2年度透過捐贈的名義給了將近500萬的捐贈"},{"start":16869.705,"end":16885.387,"text":"宮古銀行可以這樣對待一個缺乏民主性、充滿性別歧視而且行政失能、怠惰的單項運動協會有這樣的捐贈金額跟捐贈機制嗎?部長我相信你一定不知道原來你們做了這些事情"},{"start":16886.792,"end":16912.799,"text":"我們在交流化委員會或者在很多種質詢有非常多的委員都關注單項協會各項的監督但是我們看到這邊你們給我們的資料你們有這麼多的捐助我時間有限一分鐘以內我有兩個訴求來下一頁第一個訴求針對財政部所轄球隊至今依然拒絕為約聘球員加保勞保的問題我今天應該已經是來問第4次還是第5次了請部長再次跟相關單位溝通"},{"start":16914.739,"end":16920.706,"text":"我必須要說善良是一種選擇對選手的保障也是但如果財政部相關我剛剛說的這些團隊繼續選擇不願意為球員加保那我們真的覺得我們很難對選手有所交代再來財政部在相關公股"},{"start":16929.896,"end":16938.321,"text":"韓酷跟國公營事業針對運動團隊或是單項運動協會的贊助我們沒有說不能贊助但是請你們訂定相關的評估標準並且公開相關的討論記錄對於明確有抵觸政府的基本價值的單項協會在相關單位沒有具體改善之前我認為政府不應該再贊助這些協會成為加害選手的幫兇"},{"start":16956.252,"end":16969.707,"text":"以上兩個訴求非常明確請財政部一個院提出改善報告請問可以嗎好的我對於委員這樣的一個建議我們再進一步的一個了解以及可以有具體作為的部分跟委員提出書面報告"},{"start":16971.309,"end":16990.544,"text":"財政部長您的專業是來自財政我相信我剛剛講這些運動的問題你的幕僚可能沒有第一時間讓你知道我們辦公室不利於提供資料也請財政部積極跟我們辦公室約會議我們會把資料提供給部長因為部長你可能真的不知道到底發生了什麼事情好的我們會去委員辦公室請教部長剛剛非常正向的回應謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝部長要正視這一個問題這個問題事實上就是說非常重要的好謝謝"},{"start":17003.695,"end":17010.522,"text":"今日登記話言的委員均已行答完畢現在進行討論四項第一案含修正動議共兩案"},{"start":17015.206,"end":17033.273,"text":"寒修正動議共一案及臨時提案共一案的處理依據先讀的時間是12分鐘先讀完畢以後我們即進行協商請議事人員開始先讀那以法案無關的官員我們可以先行離開回辦公室辦公謝謝"},{"start":17037.361,"end":17055.39,"text":"來,議事人員先讀宣讀臨時提案一案報載財政部財政資訊中心今年多次因設備異常致稅務服務中斷經中心說明為設備老舊導致然今查財政部於今年已提出多項稅務系統及資料中心設置擴充計劃如財政部資料中心設置計劃"},{"start":17060.452,"end":17087.06,"text":"稅務便民服務及資源整合計劃智能稅務服務計劃財政部公用資料中心資源擴充計劃等已充實設備卻仍出現設備老舊導致斷網一事有鑒於稅務系統與民眾息息相關且為24小時無間斷服務財政資訊中心應留意設備維護及缺失改善方案於4個月內向財政委員會提出書面報告提案人吳秉瑞、吳麗華、賴慧媛"},{"start":17089.441,"end":17099.774,"text":"郭國文、李坤晨貨物稅條例第12條條文修正草案"},{"start":17100.816,"end":17126.313,"text":"行政院提案再做現行條文第12條第一項第一款第二幕刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅之規定但書施行期間規定已列為同款第三幕修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日之"},{"start":17131.857,"end":17139.905,"text":"購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日致台灣民眾黨黨團提案第12條第一項第一款第二目"},{"start":17148.133,"end":17159.689,"text":"購買低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士、免徵貨物稅制規定優惠期限延至119年12月31日址並新徵"},{"start":17163.835,"end":17169.318,"text":"青能公共汽車免徵貨物稅修正第5項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至119年12月31日止"},{"start":17179.232,"end":17204.304,"text":"增訂第7項、第8項規定第7項自本條文生效日起5年內報費出場15年以上次大客車於報費前後6個月內購買新大客車且完成新領牌照登記者該新大客車免徵貨物稅第8項前項免徵年限屆期前半年行政院得示實際推整情形情況決定是否延長免徵年限"},{"start":17207.642,"end":17220.915,"text":"委員張智倫等17人提案修正第12條第一項第一款第二目單數字規定購買低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動太小聲了"},{"start":17222.312,"end":17245.635,"text":"電動公共汽車身心障礙者康復巴士免徵貨物稅之規定優惠期限延至119年12月31日之委員賴士葆等26人提案第12條第一項第一款第二幕刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者復康巴士免徵貨物稅之規定"},{"start":17247.276,"end":17265.837,"text":"但書施行期間規定一律為同款第三目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至121年12月31日止修正第五項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至121年12月31日止"},{"start":17268.96,"end":17282.075,"text":"委員嚴寬恆等16人提案第12條第一項第一款第二目刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者、富康巴士、免徵貨物稅之規定"},{"start":17283.857,"end":17302.783,"text":"但書施行期間規定一列為同款第三目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日止修正第五項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日止"},{"start":17305.464,"end":17308.709,"text":"第12條之3購買完全以電能為動力之電動車輛並完成登記者免徵該等車輛應徵之貨物稅延長實施期間至118年12月31日"},{"start":17319.761,"end":17339.2,"text":"委員蔡其昌等18人提案第12條第一項第一款第二目但書施行期間規定一律為同款第三目修正延長購買低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者復康巴士、免徵貨物稅制規定優惠期限延至118年12月31日"},{"start":17341.602,"end":17369.689,"text":"修正第5項 購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日子委員吳麗華等19人提案第12條第一項第一款第二目刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅制規定但書施行期間"},{"start":17371.272,"end":17395.16,"text":"規定一列為同款第三目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日止修正第五項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日止委員陳冠廷等23人提案修正第12條第一項第一款第二目但書之規定"},{"start":17396.7,"end":17412.026,"text":"購買滴滴盤、公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者復康巴士、免徵貨物稅制規定優惠期限延至118年12月31日止修正第5項,購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準值車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日止"},{"start":17420.009,"end":17442.407,"text":"委員陳金輝等16人提案第12條第一項第一款第二目刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅制規定但書施行期間規定一律為同款第三目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日止"},{"start":17445.629,"end":17447.792,"text":"修正第5項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日"},{"start":17456.095,"end":17482.842,"text":"委員賴慧媛等18人提案修正第12條第一項第一款第二幕但書之規定購買滴滴盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者復康巴士免徵貨物稅之規定優惠期限延至民國120年12月31日之修正第五項購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至120年12月31日之"},{"start":17486.84,"end":17508.634,"text":"委員郭國文等16人提案第12條第一項第一款第2目刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅之規定但書施行期間規定移列為同款第3目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日"},{"start":17511.616,"end":17529.994,"text":"修正第5項,購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準值車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日之第12條之6將四期環保標準值大型柴油車輛納入換購減徵範圍修正文字第一款於中華民國110"},{"start":17531.195,"end":17548.854,"text":"一百年12月31日以前出廠第二款於中華民國95年10月1日至同年12月31日出廠取得環境部依88年7月1日或93年1月1日施行之移動污染源、空氣污染物排放標準合法之汽車車型"},{"start":17550.456,"end":17570.815,"text":"排氣審驗合格證明第三款於中華民國101年1月1日至同年12月31日出場且取得環境部1915年10月1日施行之移動污染源、空氣污染物排放標準合法之汽車車型排氣審驗合格證明修正動議貨物稅條例第12條"},{"start":17574.141,"end":17594.14,"text":"第一項第一款第2目刪除低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合動力公共汽車、電動公共汽車、身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅之規定但書施行期間規定已列為同款第三目修正延長購買身心障礙者富康巴士免徵貨物稅期限至118年12月31日止"},{"start":17596.562,"end":17618.221,"text":"修正第5項 購買符合載運輪椅使用者車輛規定安全檢測基準之車輛免徵貨物稅期限延長至118年12月31日子宣讀完畢好 謝謝那我們現在開始進行協商那請現場的委員提出意見"},{"start":17620.512,"end":17639.613,"text":"郭國文委員主席謝謝我想本席有一個提案是針對第12條跟12條第6的部分因為環境部把這個有關於第4期的部分沒有納入之前納入前3期有關於大顆車、柴油車的這個部分"},{"start":17640.775,"end":17658.553,"text":"但事實上第4期的整個碳氧化物的排化量其實是目前最新第6期的8.33倍那如果從109年到1110年財政部跟環境部的政策來看的話1到3期的柴油車大概是4.4萬輛當中只有9.1萬輛有申請"},{"start":17660.655,"end":17687.121,"text":"那其實柴油大客車的部分比較沒問題幾乎都換行大貨車的部分也是達到一個極限除非有再多的一個優惠所以把第4期納入主要的政策受惠的對象是柴油大客車一方面可以降低PM2.5的排放達成2050淨排這個淨零碳排政策是有相當大的注意而目前國內的整個大客車的這個受到緊急"},{"start":17689.682,"end":17706.415,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":17710.638,"end":17725.752,"text":"到3期的稅差損大概多少,第4期會造成多少的稅差損那如果不是非常多的話,我想請財政部支持本期的提案以上,謝謝好,接著請珊珊委員花言"},{"start":17729.664,"end":17744.096,"text":"謝謝主席我想我們台灣民眾黨有提案的部分我們也在剛剛的提案說明有說明了那主要還是希望說行政的版本目前只有延長電動公車的免徵貨物稅優惠那對於其他的"},{"start":17745.156,"end":17746.156,"text":"吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯、吳靜雯"},{"start":17771.636,"end":17792.734,"text":"大客車來更換電動車但是我們希望說它是不是能夠針對可能造成的稅務的影響還有目前現在這麼多的成就的大客車我們如何讓他們能夠趕快的做更新甚至能夠納入所謂的電動大客車這個部分的政策方向我們也希望能夠聽到財政部的意見"},{"start":17794.155,"end":17808.811,"text":"好,接著請伍麗華委員發言好,謝謝朝委這邊我也有提案版本一樣是貨物稅條例的第12條那這個部分呢也是跟著院版的一個意見"},{"start":17809.772,"end":17837.295,"text":"因為我們最主要是台灣2050的淨零排放路徑策略希望可以達到運具電動化跟無碳化的目標所以在這個地方針對這種不符合的低底盤公共汽車、天然氣公共汽車、油電混合的動力公共汽車像這一類型的我們就是希望貨物稅不在於延長"},{"start":17838.396,"end":17840.337,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":17859.886,"end":17886.856,"text":"118年年底那也是希望在這一段時間也能夠去朝向這樣的方向就是淨零排放去做一個改善那再來就是我有修正第一項第三款跟第三項的文字最主要就是把公共安全跟公共衛生呢做一個分別的敘述以上好接著請汪洪威、委員花妍"},{"start":17889.994,"end":17914.002,"text":"好謝謝主席那我想這個貨物稅條例的修正那麼我也有提出不過因為現在還沒有送到我們委員會所以我以修正動議來提出那基本上呢就是還是因應我們現在進入一個超高齡的社會所以呢就是還是希望能夠在這個無障礙的永善乘車環境還有這個照顧身心障礙的部分"},{"start":17914.462,"end":17929.802,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":17932.964,"end":17941.607,"text":"財政部版本我們基本上是用還是維持原來103年6月5號開始因為我們雖然是延長但是還是有從103年6月5號開始然後延長到118年的12月31日那希望能夠用併案處理以上謝謝好 謝謝宏偉的修正動議接著請賴士寶委員花言"},{"start":17959.004,"end":17973.656,"text":"謝謝主席喔我的提案是針對就是富康巴士啦其他那個什麼低底盤的不要了啦可不可以就富康巴士啦對我知道其他的不要了啦"},{"start":17976.38,"end":18004.949,"text":"林立得要啦那那個其他什麼地底盤公稱那個不要了啦就這個第二點就是那個時間啊能不能再延長不要一次一次一次這樣就延到118年啊一下子又要延要延這樣再加3年或者就乾脆把它就因為這個弱勢團體大家都要照顧的嘛可不可以乾脆就不要連線的就這樣forever一直一直給給不就好啊"},{"start":18006.267,"end":18021.16,"text":"這才一勞永逸啦你針對這麼弱勢的可以考慮嗎部長不要就五年了啦就全部了啦稅損多少稅損多少還有另外一個就是要講一下這個稅損多少稅損"},{"start":18031.388,"end":18038.66,"text":"好 謝謝士博委員我們現在請部長一併回應所有在現場的委員的提議"},{"start":18041.739,"end":18061.389,"text":"謝謝召委、謝謝委員那是不是先請就稅損的部分先做一個說明那我想我們這一次修復康巴士跟載運輪椅使用者那個車輛大概免徵然後5年那剛剛委員有提到是不是年限的問題那我想這個部分我們已經跟交通部跟衛福部都討論過大概5年是合宜的啦"},{"start":18061.909,"end":18090.883,"text":"我想是不是能夠以支持願版的部分那另外剛剛我們郭委員有提到所謂的第四期的大客車的一個大型的柴油車太舊換新的部分建議做那個部分那這個部分交通部也有一些意見我想這個部分我們是不是可以請交通部來做補充這個四期大柴油車所以我想我們待會再一起做說明好不好"},{"start":18091.283,"end":18096.991,"text":"那是委員不自新的嗎?那是委員不要太舊換成電動的嗎?市期太舊換新宿年"},{"start":18103.806,"end":18109.893,"text":"470大柴油車的太舊換新柴油車的太舊換新柴油車的太舊換新柴油車的太舊換新"},{"start":18123.728,"end":18151.365,"text":"對不起不好意思不好意思那個針對那個沒有他是針對那個遊覽車的部分那因為我們現在大顆車有稍微針對委員這個意見我們有調查了一下大概就是說如果把這個5年10年以上到未滿15年的大顆車都把它都是優惠的話那目前車輛數大概有4成左右"},{"start":18152.405,"end":18178.233,"text":"有4層對對對未滿15年然後滿15年才3%而已才3%整體的車輛大概3%那如果說今天如果把這4層的車輛全部都都可以這個免稅到15年免稅他們大部分都會延到那個15年以後會造成這些車子本來在這段時間應該要汰換他就不汰換了對"},{"start":18182.611,"end":18208.164,"text":"對所以真正的也就是代表這個數據代表就是說其實他們在10年到15年之間他們本來就是會去換不然如果要等到15年那應該是15年以上的車子會比較多可是目前這個我們調查的一下大概只有3%的數量而已我們擔心的是因為你3%其實是之前你有補助才會把15年降到3%是這樣子的"},{"start":18211.085,"end":18236.473,"text":"因為你們之前有政策上的誘導鼓勵他們所以說你們會變成是10到15年會集中於4層你現在鼓勵的是我重點其實是在第4期第4期的部分的排放量只差你們之前只有鼓勵到1到3期應該把第4期納進去以期別來看的話就不一定是10到15年你們要用期別而不是用車齡我重點是期別"},{"start":18244.164,"end":18266.852,"text":"目前電動大客車的部分在國產的部分大概目前大概只有客車的部分發展出來就只有客車對對對對這樣常常鼓勵他們啊對啊做重點就是要鼓勵他們啊對那客車的部分我們原則上目前我們大概就是電動客車是沒有問題的我們都有都是平台就免稅的"},{"start":18267.732,"end":18274.337,"text":"對 而且我們補助也補助大概一台大概1000萬左右我們補到850萬了交通部 委員跟您報告一下就是說現在我們對於車輛類的貨物稅免減免有幾種一種當然是就是委員所講的太久換息另外一種就是我們主推的配合主管部會就是說對電動車我們是給免的"},{"start":18297.052,"end":18316.99,"text":"那像委員您所對那委員您所說的像這種大客車如果他去買電動的大客車他就直接免了他不用不用太做喚醒他直接就可以免掉不管他幾年只要他願意把現在非電動的改成電動現在根據我們社會條治3就可以免稅"},{"start":18318.451,"end":18336.665,"text":"但是因為整個國家的政策因為是希望2050進行排放所以我們現在整個政策就是說希望透過這種價差讓鼓勵他們去買電動車同樣的道理嘛你就是要跟他鼓勵他那你為什麼只有限縮在三期第四期的污染性也蠻高的你就一併處理就好了"},{"start":18337.145,"end":18339.925,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":18367.677,"end":18373.524,"text":"因為他希望是整個政治社會全部都改成電動車啦全部都改成電動車"},{"start":18388.181,"end":18388.521,"text":"請環境部的話也要拿麥克風"},{"start":18410.9,"end":18427.956,"text":"各位委員好那個請問委員是要環境部這邊報告一下就是對於四騎車這個我簡單提供一個補充給大家參考就是說我們在做實際路燃路燃燃這個柴油車下來做檢查"},{"start":18428.777,"end":18453.145,"text":"那大概3000...我們大概3年攔了3000多台吧那比較一下1到3期他的這個不合格率超過兩成以上但是第4期他其實只有5%而已所以他真正發生不合格標準的機會其實是小很多表示是說他這個設備這個還是具有一定的穩定性而且效果很不錯"},{"start":18454.045,"end":18471.881,"text":"那所以我們自己的觀點是這樣假如說是以這個一到三期這種觀點要套到四期上來講的話四期它的效益其實是比較有限大概是這樣一個補充以上好 謝謝交通部要再補充嗎拿麥克風"},{"start":18474.398,"end":18491.176,"text":"消防部再來補充一下就是說目前來講整個政策在2030就要全部都電動大顆都要換成電動大顆車公車市區公車那原則上是這個目前的電動大顆車大部分也都是滴滴盤的"},{"start":18492.357,"end":18516.448,"text":"大部分做出來都是DT盤所以目前地方政府和業者他們都有一個汰換的計畫年度要換多少他們都有因為車輛有年限所以他會有排定大概要汰換多少所以說這個目前整個來汰這個電動工目前的燃油市區公車換成電動公車是目前大家所"},{"start":18517.328,"end":18532.937,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":18535.098,"end":18536.7,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":18560.161,"end":18566.29,"text":"對啊 因為你鼓勵這個是鼓勵他們全部把它改換成機能更好的車子不是嗎有沒有"},{"start":18570.633,"end":18592.131,"text":"我幫你們說一下啦我想這就是說你們現在是希望能夠達到賴總統的一個政見嘛因為他是2030年應該是那個客車全面電動化到2040年是所有的運具全面電動化如果我沒有記錯這是這個賴總統他的一個政見那我想可能包含"},{"start":18592.811,"end":18601.339,"text":"財政部或交通部可能擔心的是那如果現在如果不管油車或油電車還有這樣的一個緘免貨物稅並行的話那會延宕這個整個的全面2030跟2040年的這個電動車的一個期程這樣解釋對嗎?"},{"start":18617.701,"end":18643.955,"text":"好那請問在現場那個我們現場的委員來 姍姍今天早上才問了部長其實現在大家不換電動車的原因其實大部分是充電很麻煩動電樁不夠甚至要打架然後將來的大客車假設照你們的狀況是所有的公車都是電動車那外面的大客車也是電動車甚至剛剛"},{"start":18645.916,"end":18666.663,"text":"郭文維講那裡還有貨車也是電動車那台灣真的做得到可以提供這麼多的公共運輸的電動車的充電嗎我覺得目前我看起來是有點懷疑啦第二個他們像這種公車他自己有自己的公車停車場但你說像遊覽車他跑全省你就用電動車其實是跑一跑一沒點到跑去哪裡我覺得"},{"start":18667.623,"end":18676.451,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員"},{"start":18691.283,"end":18693.064,"text":"副副副副副副副副副副副副副"},{"start":18720.714,"end":18743.019,"text":"不管是換成電動車因為台灣國產的量能是不是這麼快我也不知道但是不是有一定的逐步往前走但事實上這些老的車願意換我覺得郭國文委員說的會比較務實就是說我們是做得到的那你讓他全部都跑到電動車那個市場我覺得可能在短時間內他可能還是不換或者換不了"},{"start":18743.615,"end":18756.829,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":18766.467,"end":18789.077,"text":"謝謝剛剛委員們都有討論我想2030晚那個電動車這個方向是要去努力所以我們才會做這樣的一個調整那至於剛剛黃委員有提到氫能這個部分然後我想這個交通部可能更是專業有看他們的報告就是說氫燃料的電池大課則也屬於電動車所以氫能的部分屬於電動的話那就回到12條之三裡面就屬於那個部分對"},{"start":18790.536,"end":18812.953,"text":"那至於剛剛委員們提到稅差的部分算出來了嗎?對,剛剛委員有提到的就是因為這是主管部會他們做出來以後經過我們扶貧那我們以復刊巴士為例根據衛福部所做出來的最初的稅收損失是大概4693萬元"},{"start":18817.436,"end":18842.655,"text":"4、6、9、3然後呢因為我們還稅收還是要彌補所以它經過稅收一些帶動的一些效果的彌補大概還是會有淨稅損三千多萬但是因為他們經過等額支出就是說他如果要打壓在末地他要補助更多他大概要花五千多萬所以後來就是兩相平衡就是做還是延續免稅的方式這是富康巴士的部分那"},{"start":18843.195,"end":18848.578,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員"},{"start":18861.785,"end":18886.94,"text":"差不多兩坪那如果他同樣要去做這件事情透過支出的話他們估計過補助大概也是3.14億元左右所以整個是經過這樣的一個評估之後也經過我們負評那我們同意之後才提了這個稅師就是這個租稅優惠方案那這是依據《大作者權利保護法》跟《財政紀律法》的規定所做的以上報告"},{"start":18888.08,"end":18902.236,"text":"好,那請問現場的各位委員還沒有其他的意見,不然我們就照行政院版的提案通過。好,好,謝謝。那我們接著就是12條之3,這個是顏寬恆委員等16人的提案,是38頁。"},{"start":18910.686,"end":18935.72,"text":"請各位同仁換到38頁那是不是顏寬衍委員等16人的一個提案那國民黨委員是不是要補充那如果不補充的話我們就不予修正我們就維持現行條文那那個交通部要不要做一個什麼補充有沒有請問那個我們現場的委員有沒有什麼意見"},{"start":18937.938,"end":18946.829,"text":"三十八頁好來宏威他先演而已好那我們就"},{"start":18957.535,"end":18983.786,"text":"維持現行條文不予修正接著我們到第40頁12條之6郭國文委員等16人的提案請問在現場的委員有沒有意見郭委員沒有意見那我們就照行政院版不好意思我們維持現行條文不予修正"},{"start":18988.922,"end":18990.585,"text":"好 我們還有一個臨時的提案"},{"start":18993.84,"end":19019.762,"text":"這個已經先讀過了那是不是請部長做個說明就是吳委員等委員的提案就是對於我們財資中心的設備有些異常他認為應該要做一些注意然後因為老舊嘛然後4個月內向財委會提出書面報告也就是說24小時要無間任服這個我們遵照辦理"},{"start":19020.743,"end":19029.21,"text":"我們遵照辦理是好 謝謝那我們就照案通過齁那接著我們協商完成齁請議事人員先讀協商的一個結論"},{"start":19049.262,"end":19052.683,"text":"委員的本本跟額外造成的稅損嗎?可是只有稅損不會有替代產源嗎?"},{"start":19074.824,"end":19092.25,"text":"好學商完成我們請議事人員先讀學商的結論先讀學商結論《貨物稅條例》第12條照行政院提案通過第12條之3維持現行條文不予修正第12條之6維持現行條文不予修正先讀完畢"},{"start":19093.735,"end":19108.661,"text":"好請問各位委員對協商的結論有沒有意義那沒有意義的話照協商結論通過那本日會議做成以下的結議說明跟詢答完畢那第二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會在一週內以書面答覆委員"},{"start":19115.123,"end":19130.227,"text":"那個委員另有那個要求就是期限者從期首定委員蔡其昌首提書面質詢經列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆第4貨物稅條例第12條"},{"start":19133.872,"end":19154.784,"text":"條文修正草案等11案已經審查完畢就是併案明據審查報告提報宴會討論宴會討論前不需要交由黨團協商宴會討論時有本席補充說明請問各位委員對以上的決議有沒有異議"},{"start":19158.806,"end":19172.931,"text":"中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及首屬單位稅入預算部分及財政部國庫署財政資訊中心稅出的預算部分及中華民國114"},{"start":19174.552,"end":19192.987,"text":"四年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算會營業部分有關財政部主管、債務基金、中央政府債務基金經命則其繼續審查本次會議委員若有預算的提案請於11月"},{"start":19194.348,"end":19212.609,"text":"18號星期一中午12點以前進送財政委員會議事人員收件本日會議議程已進行完畢倘若有不在場的委員補題書面的一個執行一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理休息"},{"start":19224.94,"end":19249.122,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":19256.052,"end":19264.395,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠�"}]}},{"id":"16260","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16260","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc161a8535b05d3ed3e31b7408ea4e1280edb79b8bfb08e79966c6931f75ff53a55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:32:03+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:44:00+08:00","duration":18717,"影片長度":"05:11:57","委員發言時間":"08:32:03 - 13:44:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1677.7434687500001,"end":1678.8065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1679.0428437500002,"end":1683.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":1684.7128437500003,"end":1685.5565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1685.5565937500003,"end":1685.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1686.41721875,"end":1690.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1690.4503437500002,"end":1692.2390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1692.32346875,"end":1697.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1697.8922187500002,"end":1701.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1701.6384687500001,"end":1709.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1710.32909375,"end":1710.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1711.18971875,"end":1712.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1713.8897187500002,"end":1725.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1725.38159375,"end":1734.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1735.08471875,"end":1739.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1743.10034375,"end":1756.1447187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1756.88721875,"end":1757.2078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1770.5897187500002,"end":1771.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1772.5640937500002,"end":1774.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1775.14596875,"end":1777.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1779.51659375,"end":1782.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1782.7734687500001,"end":1785.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1785.5240937500002,"end":1794.6534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1795.5140937500003,"end":1798.4334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1799.20971875,"end":1808.5922187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1808.9297187500001,"end":1816.8440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1817.2997187500002,"end":1848.9403437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1849.4634687500002,"end":1851.6065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1851.8259687500001,"end":1853.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1853.78346875,"end":1854.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1855.3359687500001,"end":1856.4159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1857.29346875,"end":1865.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1866.2203437500002,"end":1896.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1897.0678437500003,"end":1900.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1900.59471875,"end":1905.8597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1906.1465937500002,"end":1908.0365937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1908.4078437500002,"end":1909.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1909.45409375,"end":1910.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1913.6559687500003,"end":1914.7528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1916.0522187500003,"end":1917.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1918.5159687500002,"end":1922.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1922.8865937500002,"end":1932.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1933.9565937500001,"end":1946.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1947.3047187500001,"end":1960.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1961.5978437500003,"end":1976.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1977.4265937500002,"end":1988.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1989.0872187500001,"end":2002.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2003.7009687500001,"end":2007.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2009.45534375,"end":2011.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2011.8853437500002,"end":2021.0653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2021.68971875,"end":2022.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2022.3478437500003,"end":2028.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2029.3509687500002,"end":2030.3128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2030.6503437500003,"end":2031.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2032.4559687500002,"end":2034.5315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2034.9872187500002,"end":2046.6815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2046.9515937500003,"end":2047.4747187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2048.63909375,"end":2049.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2049.8709687500004,"end":2050.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2052.2165937500004,"end":2054.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2054.89971875,"end":2066.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2067.2859687500004,"end":2079.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2079.7565937500003,"end":2080.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2081.3428437500006,"end":2082.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2082.9628437500005,"end":2086.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2088.27846875,"end":2089.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2089.62846875,"end":2091.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2092.26096875,"end":2099.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2100.6647187500002,"end":2101.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2101.44096875,"end":2102.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2102.99346875,"end":2107.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2107.2459687500004,"end":2114.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2115.2615937500004,"end":2115.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2116.4090937500005,"end":2134.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2134.44846875,"end":2136.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2136.9122187500006,"end":2161.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2161.68471875,"end":2182.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2184.01034375,"end":2185.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2185.4615937500002,"end":2187.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2187.5203437500004,"end":2197.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2197.44284375,"end":2197.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2197.4597187500003,"end":2197.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2197.8815937500003,"end":2197.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2197.96596875,"end":2207.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2208.58034375,"end":2214.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2215.04346875,"end":2229.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2236.8797187500004,"end":2237.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2237.52096875,"end":2285.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2285.31096875,"end":2287.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2288.0447187500004,"end":2304.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2304.3290937500005,"end":2308.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2308.4803437500004,"end":2309.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2309.9990937500006,"end":2314.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2315.31471875,"end":2327.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2328.17346875,"end":2335.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2335.3622187500005,"end":2336.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2336.35784375,"end":2338.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2338.3659687500003,"end":2343.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2343.8672187500006,"end":2344.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2345.3184687500006,"end":2350.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2350.8028437500006,"end":2352.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2352.7265937500006,"end":2356.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2356.47284375,"end":2356.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2356.86096875,"end":2356.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2358.8184687500006,"end":2365.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2372.38596875,"end":2388.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2388.8728437500004,"end":2396.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2396.7703437500004,"end":2417.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2418.43784375,"end":2419.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2419.9903437500006,"end":2437.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2437.6922187500004,"end":2444.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2444.8640937500004,"end":2445.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2446.45034375,"end":2448.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2449.2178437500006,"end":2504.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2505.5465937500003,"end":2533.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2533.77846875,"end":2570.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2570.92034375,"end":2570.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2571.6797187500006,"end":2575.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2576.5565937500005,"end":2577.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2586.0740937500004,"end":2782.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2783.8153437500005,"end":2788.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2788.55721875,"end":2789.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2798.96909375,"end":2800.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2800.77471875,"end":2802.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2802.9684687500003,"end":2835.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2837.1572187500005,"end":2859.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2859.78659375,"end":2870.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2870.4347187500007,"end":2874.2147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2877.67409375,"end":2884.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2891.17409375,"end":2892.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2893.16534375,"end":2897.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2897.5865937500002,"end":2898.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2899.1053437500004,"end":2899.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2899.7803437500006,"end":2901.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2902.02471875,"end":2920.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2921.3465937500005,"end":2924.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2925.9197187500004,"end":2936.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2936.92221875,"end":2937.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2938.3565937500007,"end":2950.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2951.26596875,"end":2959.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2959.70346875,"end":2965.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2965.5759687500004,"end":2971.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2971.98846875,"end":2980.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2981.7928437500004,"end":2986.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2986.88909375,"end":2990.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2990.3484687500004,"end":2991.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2992.2215937500005,"end":3008.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3008.99534375,"end":3031.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3031.2028437500003,"end":3037.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3037.81784375,"end":3039.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3040.34909375,"end":3041.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3041.61471875,"end":3044.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3044.2303437500004,"end":3044.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3046.01909375,"end":3046.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3046.0359687500004,"end":3046.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3047.09909375,"end":3069.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3069.94784375,"end":3078.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3089.21909375,"end":3092.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3097.8084687500004,"end":3119.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3121.21409375,"end":3124.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3124.6228437500004,"end":3131.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3125.31471875,"end":3125.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3132.5709687500002,"end":3132.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3132.97596875,"end":3133.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3133.02659375,"end":3133.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3133.46534375,"end":3133.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3134.6297187500004,"end":3134.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3134.6465937500006,"end":3134.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3134.84909375,"end":3134.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3134.8659687500003,"end":3134.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3135.55784375,"end":3135.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3135.5915937500004,"end":3135.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3135.9628437500005,"end":3136.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3136.0303437500006,"end":3136.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3136.9753437500003,"end":3137.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3137.02596875,"end":3149.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3149.00721875,"end":3149.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3149.0240937500002,"end":3149.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3149.0915937500004,"end":3149.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3149.8172187500004,"end":3150.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3151.2684687500005,"end":3173.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3174.2184687500003,"end":3178.4034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3178.6228437500004,"end":3179.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3181.5759687500004,"end":3183.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3183.43221875,"end":3183.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3184.6472187500003,"end":3184.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3184.6640937500006,"end":3186.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3187.04346875,"end":3197.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3191.3634687500007,"end":3192.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3197.03346875,"end":3199.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3200.0709687500002,"end":3216.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3216.7097187500003,"end":3228.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3223.67909375,"end":3226.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3228.50534375,"end":3228.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3228.5390937500006,"end":3229.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3229.0284687500007,"end":3246.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3247.2703437500004,"end":3264.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3264.0272187500004,"end":3264.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3264.22971875,"end":3287.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3286.58909375,"end":3287.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3288.5128437500007,"end":3295.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3295.88721875,"end":3296.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3296.59596875,"end":3310.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3308.1384687500004,"end":3316.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3317.2340937500003,"end":3325.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3326.1103437500005,"end":3332.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3333.07971875,"end":3335.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3335.05409375,"end":3335.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3335.0709687500002,"end":3335.0878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3335.6784687500003,"end":3335.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3335.96534375,"end":3351.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3343.5759687500004,"end":3344.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3350.61284375,"end":3354.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3352.90784375,"end":3360.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3358.02096875,"end":3358.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3360.0290937500004,"end":3362.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3362.5772187500006,"end":3362.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3362.9990937500006,"end":3372.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3372.60096875,"end":3383.3165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3383.56971875,"end":3384.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3384.4472187500005,"end":3385.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3386.1853437500004,"end":3386.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3386.35409375,"end":3387.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3387.97409375,"end":3390.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3390.6572187500005,"end":3397.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3398.5378437500003,"end":3408.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3399.06096875,"end":3399.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3408.52784375,"end":3424.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3410.8565937500007,"end":3411.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3411.1434687500005,"end":3411.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3411.36284375,"end":3411.7003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3424.6940937500003,"end":3439.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3424.72784375,"end":3425.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3439.32471875,"end":3446.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3446.07471875,"end":3448.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3448.96034375,"end":3449.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3449.01096875,"end":3451.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3449.19659375,"end":3449.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3450.41159375,"end":3450.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3451.7615937500004,"end":3471.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3464.82284375,"end":3464.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3464.9747187500006,"end":3465.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3471.03284375,"end":3485.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3476.4159687500005,"end":3476.5509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3476.6015937500006,"end":3476.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3486.08534375,"end":3513.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3486.92909375,"end":3487.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3488.75159375,"end":3491.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3491.9747187500006,"end":3492.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3494.03346875,"end":3494.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3494.0672187500004,"end":3496.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3496.15971875,"end":3496.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3496.56471875,"end":3496.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3496.6490937500002,"end":3499.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3499.63596875,"end":3500.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3500.5134687500004,"end":3500.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3513.8447187500005,"end":3518.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3517.0340937500005,"end":3532.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3528.1378437500007,"end":3536.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3532.5253437500005,"end":3532.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3533.94284375,"end":3538.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3536.96346875,"end":3537.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3538.70159375,"end":3538.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3538.75221875,"end":3538.7859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3538.7859687500004,"end":3549.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3538.8365937500002,"end":3540.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3540.01784375,"end":3540.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3540.03471875,"end":3540.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3548.45534375,"end":3549.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3549.8728437500004,"end":3549.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3549.97409375,"end":3553.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3557.1628437500003,"end":3563.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3564.73971875,"end":3567.6759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3572.3165937500007,"end":3581.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3581.0240937500002,"end":3581.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3583.1503437500005,"end":3589.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3590.1872187500003,"end":3592.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3593.5284687500007,"end":3595.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3596.2959687500006,"end":3602.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3603.3834687500002,"end":3608.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3603.9403437500005,"end":3604.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3608.3953437500004,"end":3613.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3614.1328437500006,"end":3614.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3616.09034375,"end":3618.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3618.6384687500004,"end":3619.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3619.93784375,"end":3622.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3622.3172187500004,"end":3626.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3627.4472187500005,"end":3629.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3629.94471875,"end":3630.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3630.2653437500003,"end":3634.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3636.1209687500004,"end":3645.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3645.92534375,"end":3647.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3647.96721875,"end":3654.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3657.07971875,"end":3658.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3660.03284375,"end":3660.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3660.0497187500005,"end":3660.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3660.0665937500007,"end":3662.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3662.4628437500005,"end":3668.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3669.97221875,"end":3679.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3680.7384687500007,"end":3685.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3686.42534375,"end":3691.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3691.90971875,"end":3694.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3695.4872187500005,"end":3705.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3706.18596875,"end":3707.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3707.6540937500004,"end":3716.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3717.45846875,"end":3719.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3721.3565937500007,"end":3730.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3731.3465937500005,"end":3737.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3738.1640937500006,"end":3740.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3740.0372187500006,"end":3740.2228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3740.2228437500007,"end":3740.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3742.34909375,"end":3751.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3752.59221875,"end":3753.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3753.36846875,"end":3753.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3755.0222187500003,"end":3755.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3755.0390937500006,"end":3757.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3758.5828437500004,"end":3758.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3758.61659375,"end":3764.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3764.94471875,"end":3764.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3764.9615937500002,"end":3766.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3766.86846875,"end":3771.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3771.64409375,"end":3771.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3771.6609687500004,"end":3771.9815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3772.7578437500006,"end":3774.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3774.83346875,"end":3782.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3782.3259687500004,"end":3782.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3782.6297187500004,"end":3783.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3784.8740937500006,"end":3784.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3784.89096875,"end":3785.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3787.4559687500005,"end":3787.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3787.4728437500007,"end":3789.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3789.8859687500008,"end":3800.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3800.1797187500006,"end":3803.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3800.2303437500004,"end":3800.4328437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3804.41534375,"end":3807.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3807.8915937500005,"end":3808.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3808.9040937500004,"end":3812.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3813.6290937500007,"end":3814.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3814.0340937500005,"end":3820.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3820.1765937500004,"end":3823.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3823.9059687500003,"end":3828.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3828.0065937500003,"end":3829.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3829.2890937500006,"end":3833.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3833.9972187500007,"end":3835.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3835.51596875,"end":3838.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3839.1609687500004,"end":3840.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3841.1690937500007,"end":3842.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3842.9747187500006,"end":3843.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3843.22784375,"end":3845.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3846.2653437500003,"end":3849.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3849.92721875,"end":3851.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3851.98596875,"end":3853.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3854.6015937500006,"end":3856.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3856.9472187500005,"end":3858.6515937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3859.32659375,"end":3861.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3861.5203437500004,"end":3864.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3866.6503437500005,"end":3868.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3868.84409375,"end":3869.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3871.07159375,"end":3872.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3872.47221875,"end":3873.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3874.75034375,"end":3876.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3876.97784375,"end":3888.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3888.19971875,"end":3890.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3890.96721875,"end":3891.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3892.48596875,"end":3893.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3893.86971875,"end":3896.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3896.4684687500003,"end":3899.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3899.9278437500006,"end":3907.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3907.06596875,"end":3914.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3915.38534375,"end":3918.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3915.50346875,"end":3915.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3918.4059687500003,"end":3926.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3926.6072187500004,"end":3933.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3932.49659375,"end":3940.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3941.5078437500006,"end":3942.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3943.0265937500008,"end":3943.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3944.2922187500008,"end":3946.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3946.6378437500007,"end":3951.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3952.91534375,"end":3954.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3954.24846875,"end":3955.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3956.3409687500007,"end":3958.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3958.3322187500007,"end":3960.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3960.57659375,"end":3961.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3963.0909687500007,"end":3968.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3968.5584687500004,"end":3977.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3977.56971875,"end":3977.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3977.5865937500002,"end":3995.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3986.61471875,"end":3987.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3995.6259687500005,"end":3999.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3999.1697187500004,"end":4002.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4002.57846875,"end":4012.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4012.9059687500003,"end":4014.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4016.3990937500002,"end":4017.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4017.9684687500003,"end":4018.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4018.2890937500006,"end":4019.1834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4020.0778437500003,"end":4025.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4026.6590937500005,"end":4034.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4034.4384687500005,"end":4036.9022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4037.3747187500003,"end":4038.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4039.0622187500003,"end":4040.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4040.5978437500007,"end":4044.2765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4045.84596875,"end":4046.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4046.9259687500007,"end":4049.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4049.7440937500005,"end":4052.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4067.36159375,"end":4069.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4070.1122187500005,"end":4071.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4075.9509687500004,"end":4077.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4078.1278437500005,"end":4082.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4083.1903437500005,"end":4085.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4085.7384687500007,"end":4087.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4088.21909375,"end":4088.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4089.48471875,"end":4099.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4099.491593750001,"end":4102.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4102.88346875,"end":4104.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4104.30096875,"end":4108.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4109.295968750001,"end":4110.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4111.1522187499995,"end":4112.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4112.704718749999,"end":4140.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4141.1053437499995,"end":4143.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4143.33284375,"end":4147.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4148.04096875,"end":4166.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4166.21534375,"end":4175.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4176.1209687499995,"end":4176.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4177.75784375,"end":4183.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4183.93409375,"end":4184.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4185.75659375,"end":4189.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4190.009093750001,"end":4192.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4192.55721875,"end":4193.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4194.177218750001,"end":4198.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4198.9022187499995,"end":4204.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4204.437218749999,"end":4205.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4205.82096875,"end":4208.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4208.419718749999,"end":4209.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4210.495343750001,"end":4212.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4212.30096875,"end":4213.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4214.477843750001,"end":4214.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4215.57471875,"end":4221.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4222.5947187500005,"end":4250.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4250.55659375,"end":4251.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4250.6747187500005,"end":4252.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4252.66596875,"end":4255.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4254.94409375,"end":4265.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4265.03534375,"end":4278.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4265.153468750001,"end":4266.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4277.72534375,"end":4278.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4278.72096875,"end":4287.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4287.47909375,"end":4289.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4290.11159375,"end":4316.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4316.892218749999,"end":4317.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4318.967843750001,"end":4320.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4321.61721875,"end":4326.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4326.932843750001,"end":4330.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4330.020968750001,"end":4338.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4337.17596875,"end":4338.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4338.137843750001,"end":4339.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4339.0322187500005,"end":4348.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4340.331593749999,"end":4343.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4347.43596875,"end":4350.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4350.20346875,"end":4355.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4351.1990937499995,"end":4351.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4351.857218749999,"end":4352.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4356.126593749999,"end":4358.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4358.6747187500005,"end":4359.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4360.159718749999,"end":4361.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4361.3915937500005,"end":4363.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4363.28159375,"end":4366.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4367.061593750001,"end":4369.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4368.24284375,"end":4369.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4369.3397187499995,"end":4369.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4369.356593750001,"end":4383.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4369.390343749999,"end":4370.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4381.79346875,"end":4382.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4384.79721875,"end":4393.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4394.010968750001,"end":4396.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4396.305968750001,"end":4408.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4396.32284375,"end":4397.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4397.4872187500005,"end":4398.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4407.038468750001,"end":4414.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4412.185343749999,"end":4420.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4421.21346875,"end":4424.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4424.571593750001,"end":4425.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4426.09034375,"end":4428.689093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4428.94221875,"end":4441.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4441.69971875,"end":4443.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4446.036593750001,"end":4454.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4454.474093750001,"end":4460.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4460.279093749999,"end":4467.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4467.788468750001,"end":4489.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4489.89471875,"end":4497.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4497.99471875,"end":4498.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4498.163468750001,"end":4498.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4498.19721875,"end":4498.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4498.298468749999,"end":4498.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4498.38284375,"end":4498.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4498.61909375,"end":4498.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4498.669718749999,"end":4499.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4498.872218750001,"end":4499.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4499.63159375,"end":4499.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4499.96909375,"end":4507.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4500.0028437500005,"end":4500.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4507.69784375,"end":4512.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4511.477843750001,"end":4512.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4512.743468750001,"end":4513.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4513.030343750001,"end":4513.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4513.04721875,"end":4513.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4513.13159375,"end":4524.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4513.18221875,"end":4517.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4524.218468749999,"end":4529.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4529.6522187499995,"end":4530.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4531.47471875,"end":4533.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4541.1103437500005,"end":4545.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4547.48909375,"end":4548.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4552.33221875,"end":4552.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4552.686593750001,"end":4552.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4552.70346875,"end":4552.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4552.7372187500005,"end":4552.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4553.007218750001,"end":4556.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4557.19221875,"end":4558.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4558.47471875,"end":4594.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4594.452218750001,"end":4594.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4594.485968749999,"end":4594.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4594.5028437500005,"end":4594.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4594.51971875,"end":4595.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4595.17784375,"end":4599.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4599.02534375,"end":4599.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4599.413468750001,"end":4599.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4599.548468749999,"end":4601.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4601.522843750001,"end":4601.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4601.573468750001,"end":4601.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4601.59034375,"end":4601.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4601.97846875,"end":4612.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4610.87159375,"end":4697.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4697.92971875,"end":4722.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4722.921593749999,"end":4732.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4733.13096875,"end":4735.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4735.66221875,"end":4795.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4796.2772187499995,"end":4815.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4805.372843749999,"end":4808.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4808.68034375,"end":4809.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4813.540343750001,"end":4868.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4869.413468750001,"end":4873.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4873.22721875,"end":4874.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4875.4715937500005,"end":4875.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4875.67409375,"end":4875.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4875.77534375,"end":4875.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4875.94409375,"end":4875.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4875.977843750001,"end":4876.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4876.028468750001,"end":4882.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4883.200343750001,"end":4887.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4887.90846875,"end":4923.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4924.93221875,"end":4927.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4926.315968750001,"end":4939.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4940.45721875,"end":4943.376593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4943.140343749999,"end":4960.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4960.04909375,"end":4963.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4962.884093750001,"end":4963.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4964.26784375,"end":4964.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4964.858468750001,"end":4965.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4964.993468750001,"end":4967.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4965.01034375,"end":4965.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4969.38096875,"end":4972.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4979.06721875,"end":4981.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4982.7459687499995,"end":4985.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4988.905343750001,"end":4989.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4989.34409375,"end":4989.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4989.76596875,"end":5001.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5001.71346875,"end":5111.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5112.48096875,"end":5125.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5125.28909375,"end":5125.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5125.50846875,"end":5125.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5126.385968750001,"end":5126.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5126.40284375,"end":5146.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5144.762843750001,"end":5266.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5147.22659375,"end":5149.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5150.21346875,"end":5151.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5266.7353437500005,"end":5326.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5326.827218750001,"end":5360.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5330.32034375,"end":5330.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5330.624093750001,"end":5330.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5360.88096875,"end":5374.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5372.87909375,"end":5376.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5376.085343750001,"end":5394.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5394.276593750001,"end":5396.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5396.149718750001,"end":5399.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5400.081593750001,"end":5463.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5463.6834687499995,"end":5463.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5463.734093749999,"end":5463.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5463.80159375,"end":5465.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5463.95346875,"end":5463.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5465.03346875,"end":5465.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5465.97846875,"end":5472.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5479.69784375,"end":5481.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5481.975968750001,"end":5482.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5482.7353437500005,"end":5484.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5484.72659375,"end":5484.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5487.780968749999,"end":5506.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5506.579718749999,"end":5519.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5519.87721875,"end":5519.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5519.91096875,"end":5519.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5519.97846875,"end":5520.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5520.16409375,"end":5520.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5520.974093750001,"end":5526.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5526.272843750001,"end":5538.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5538.96284375,"end":5561.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5557.204718749999,"end":5557.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5561.96346875,"end":5562.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5563.09409375,"end":5568.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5567.58284375,"end":5569.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5569.017218749999,"end":5571.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5571.649718750001,"end":5571.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5571.90284375,"end":5571.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5571.919718749999,"end":5578.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5573.45534375,"end":5574.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5579.46284375,"end":5597.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5597.82284375,"end":5597.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5597.8397187499995,"end":5597.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5597.87346875,"end":5597.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5597.95784375,"end":5597.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5598.21096875,"end":5598.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5598.227843750001,"end":5618.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5607.30659375,"end":5607.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5607.9647187499995,"end":5609.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5609.02784375,"end":5609.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5617.2459687499995,"end":5621.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5620.28346875,"end":5622.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5622.139718750001,"end":5655.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5655.99096875,"end":5656.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5656.04159375,"end":5678.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5656.075343750001,"end":5656.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5656.159718750001,"end":5656.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5656.22721875,"end":5656.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5679.05909375,"end":5684.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5684.96534375,"end":5698.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5697.16596875,"end":5697.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5698.43159375,"end":5698.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5698.482218749999,"end":5736.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5734.93221875,"end":5736.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5737.075343750001,"end":5756.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5756.5322187500005,"end":5761.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5762.21909375,"end":5769.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5765.35784375,"end":5765.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5765.374718749999,"end":5765.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5765.661593750001,"end":5765.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5768.327843749999,"end":5768.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5768.36159375,"end":5779.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5779.9715937500005,"end":5809.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5800.542218750001,"end":5803.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5803.83284375,"end":5805.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5809.57034375,"end":5829.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5829.90471875,"end":5831.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5831.760968750001,"end":5831.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5831.811593750001,"end":5851.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5849.73284375,"end":5868.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5863.165343750001,"end":5864.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5867.08034375,"end":5867.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5868.58221875,"end":5899.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5899.00784375,"end":5916.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5899.024718750001,"end":5899.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5913.638468749999,"end":5924.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5916.827843749999,"end":5917.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5918.380343750001,"end":5918.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5918.987843750001,"end":5920.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5920.439093750001,"end":5929.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5937.01034375,"end":5939.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5943.878468750001,"end":5955.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5956.8553437499995,"end":5957.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5959.622843749999,"end":5961.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5961.310343749999,"end":5964.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5962.575968749999,"end":5964.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5964.9384687500005,"end":5966.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5966.389718750001,"end":5970.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5971.013468749999,"end":5971.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5972.58284375,"end":5998.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5995.769093750001,"end":6021.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6010.062218749999,"end":6010.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6024.70971875,"end":6024.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6024.72659375,"end":6025.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6025.637843750001,"end":6026.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6027.24096875,"end":6041.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6041.466593749999,"end":6041.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6041.58471875,"end":6046.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6046.93409375,"end":6053.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6050.78159375,"end":6052.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6053.22846875,"end":6068.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6059.894093750001,"end":6060.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6068.702843749999,"end":6075.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6075.95909375,"end":6092.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6092.81721875,"end":6099.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6099.34784375,"end":6099.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6099.61784375,"end":6105.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6105.94596875,"end":6110.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6111.02534375,"end":6118.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6119.7665937500005,"end":6130.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6130.904093749999,"end":6131.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6131.1572187500005,"end":6131.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6131.96721875,"end":6148.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6141.687218749999,"end":6142.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6142.868468750001,"end":6142.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6142.88534375,"end":6142.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6142.9697187500005,"end":6143.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6148.92659375,"end":6150.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6151.2215937500005,"end":6157.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6157.026593750001,"end":6157.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6158.59596875,"end":6174.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6172.04534375,"end":6182.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6174.779093749999,"end":6175.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6182.54159375,"end":6192.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6182.5584687499995,"end":6183.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6192.970343750001,"end":6204.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6204.934718750001,"end":6270.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6233.55471875,"end":6233.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6270.94971875,"end":6270.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6270.966593749999,"end":6271.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6271.253468750001,"end":6273.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6271.33784375,"end":6271.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6271.962218750001,"end":6272.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6274.307843750001,"end":6293.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6293.9334687499995,"end":6303.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6305.27346875,"end":6305.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6305.30721875,"end":6331.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6332.49284375,"end":6336.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6334.450343750001,"end":6335.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6336.49221875,"end":6362.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6362.96909375,"end":6377.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6375.86159375,"end":6378.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6379.84409375,"end":6382.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6388.18034375,"end":6391.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6392.5340937500005,"end":6392.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6392.60159375,"end":6392.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6392.669093750001,"end":6392.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6392.7197187500005,"end":6392.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6392.83784375,"end":6393.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6393.90096875,"end":6394.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6394.03596875,"end":6394.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6394.13721875,"end":6394.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6395.436593750001,"end":6396.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6395.520968750001,"end":6395.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6396.0272187499995,"end":6396.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6396.16221875,"end":6397.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6397.022843750001,"end":6397.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6398.153468750001,"end":6398.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6399.452843749999,"end":6406.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6407.18159375,"end":6407.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6408.48096875,"end":6413.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6414.43784375,"end":6429.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6429.642218750001,"end":6439.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6439.294718749999,"end":6439.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6440.526593750001,"end":6444.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6444.81284375,"end":6446.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6447.749093750001,"end":6454.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6455.12346875,"end":6456.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6456.7772187499995,"end":6457.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6457.28346875,"end":6457.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6458.31284375,"end":6459.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6459.57846875,"end":6461.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6462.126593750001,"end":6468.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6469.450343750001,"end":6475.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6476.03159375,"end":6481.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6481.077218750001,"end":6481.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6481.17846875,"end":6481.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6481.2459687499995,"end":6512.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6513.274718750001,"end":6520.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6520.632218750001,"end":6529.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6529.52534375,"end":6534.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6534.554093750001,"end":6535.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6536.62971875,"end":6537.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6537.43971875,"end":6537.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6537.96284375,"end":6538.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6538.030343750001,"end":6538.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6538.80659375,"end":6538.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6538.97534375,"end":6539.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6540.038468750001,"end":6566.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6566.49846875,"end":6566.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6566.58284375,"end":6566.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6566.616593750001,"end":6566.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6566.65034375,"end":6569.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6569.468468749999,"end":6572.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6573.079718750001,"end":6575.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6575.425343750001,"end":6578.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6578.26034375,"end":6579.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6579.880343750001,"end":6580.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6580.909718750001,"end":6581.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6582.327218750001,"end":6593.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6593.83596875,"end":6595.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6595.69221875,"end":6596.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6596.55284375,"end":6597.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6597.885968750001,"end":6603.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6603.825968749999,"end":6604.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6604.18034375,"end":6616.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6616.75221875,"end":6618.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6618.91221875,"end":6622.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6622.55721875,"end":6622.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6623.82284375,"end":6626.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6627.079718750001,"end":6638.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6638.97659375,"end":6665.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6639.63471875,"end":6639.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6665.520968750001,"end":6666.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6666.280343750001,"end":6667.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6667.32659375,"end":6668.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6669.16596875,"end":6676.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6677.384093750001,"end":6677.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6677.940968750001,"end":6684.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6682.716593749999,"end":6683.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6684.032843750001,"end":6684.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6684.218468749999,"end":6684.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6684.38721875,"end":6695.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6695.74409375,"end":6697.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6698.03909375,"end":6701.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6701.26221875,"end":6701.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6702.780968749999,"end":6704.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6704.97471875,"end":6705.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6706.341593749999,"end":6707.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6709.210343750001,"end":6711.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6711.454718750001,"end":6714.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6714.981593750001,"end":6719.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6719.200343750001,"end":6721.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6721.967843750001,"end":6730.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6731.92409375,"end":6733.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6734.64096875,"end":6736.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6737.526593750001,"end":6740.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6740.54721875,"end":6742.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6743.73659375,"end":6749.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6749.87909375,"end":6777.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6777.48659375,"end":6796.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6796.50471875,"end":6802.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6802.32659375,"end":6803.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6803.92971875,"end":6818.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6819.792218750001,"end":6830.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6830.946593750001,"end":6835.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6837.038468750001,"end":6837.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6838.810343749999,"end":6840.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6840.177218750001,"end":6853.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6853.255343750001,"end":6853.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6853.27221875,"end":6853.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6853.52534375,"end":6853.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6853.55909375,"end":6853.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6853.626593750001,"end":6853.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6853.69409375,"end":6853.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6853.71096875,"end":6853.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6853.74471875,"end":6855.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6856.579718750001,"end":6864.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6864.52784375,"end":6867.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6867.599093750001,"end":6882.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6882.685343749999,"end":6884.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6884.96346875,"end":6885.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6885.25034375,"end":6885.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6885.975968750001,"end":6888.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6889.46909375,"end":6892.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6905.83784375,"end":6907.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6908.520968750001,"end":6909.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6911.710343750001,"end":6912.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6912.925343750001,"end":6913.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6913.448468750001,"end":7006.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7006.66596875,"end":7009.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7009.61909375,"end":7015.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7015.8290937500005,"end":7017.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7017.43221875,"end":7019.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7019.946593750001,"end":7023.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7023.89534375,"end":7061.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7061.49284375,"end":7080.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7080.91596875,"end":7082.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7082.519093750001,"end":7091.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7093.302218750001,"end":7102.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7102.04346875,"end":7114.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7114.919093750001,"end":7157.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7117.88909375,"end":7117.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7125.4490937499995,"end":7125.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7156.904093749999,"end":7191.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7191.02534375,"end":7219.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7201.673468750001,"end":7201.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":7201.724093750001,"end":7201.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7206.921593750001,"end":7206.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7206.9384687500005,"end":7207.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7207.22534375,"end":7207.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7207.259093750001,"end":7207.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7207.27596875,"end":7207.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7207.37721875,"end":7207.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7209.8240937499995,"end":7210.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7219.66221875,"end":7235.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7235.4403437500005,"end":7235.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7235.87909375,"end":7268.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7268.987843750001,"end":7292.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7292.96721875,"end":7294.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7293.81096875,"end":7293.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7293.827843750001,"end":7293.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7294.97534375,"end":7301.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7306.51784375,"end":7309.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7310.97284375,"end":7311.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7311.968468750001,"end":7312.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7312.812218750001,"end":7314.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7314.63471875,"end":7315.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7315.42784375,"end":7316.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7316.153468750001,"end":7318.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7318.88721875,"end":7320.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7321.401593750001,"end":7340.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7340.6053437499995,"end":7344.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7345.6678437499995,"end":7351.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7351.489718750001,"end":7353.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7351.52346875,"end":7351.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7351.6415937500005,"end":7351.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7353.63284375,"end":7355.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7355.45534375,"end":7357.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7355.48909375,"end":7356.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7356.72096875,"end":7357.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7357.868468750001,"end":7360.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7361.31096875,"end":7408.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7394.97659375,"end":7395.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7408.51034375,"end":7421.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7408.915343750001,"end":7409.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7421.68971875,"end":7426.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7426.00971875,"end":7427.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7426.769093750001,"end":7434.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7434.63284375,"end":7435.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7436.3709687499995,"end":7442.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7441.4334687499995,"end":7457.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7444.70721875,"end":7445.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7457.58284375,"end":7477.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7477.1747187500005,"end":7477.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7477.74846875,"end":7477.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7477.7822187500005,"end":7487.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7487.384093750001,"end":7487.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7487.434718750001,"end":7496.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7489.89846875,"end":7490.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7493.2059687500005,"end":7493.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7496.46284375,"end":7499.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7499.97284375,"end":7514.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7503.4490937499995,"end":7503.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7503.786593750001,"end":7503.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7514.9072187500005,"end":7522.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7522.9228437500005,"end":7531.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7531.47846875,"end":7581.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7581.276593750001,"end":7583.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7583.234093750001,"end":7607.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7607.939093750001,"end":7616.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7616.9334687499995,"end":7624.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7627.9022187499995,"end":7663.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7628.59409375,"end":7628.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7638.0947187500005,"end":7638.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7638.14534375,"end":7638.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7638.465968750001,"end":7638.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7644.62534375,"end":7644.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7644.6590937500005,"end":7644.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7644.72659375,"end":7646.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7647.359093750001,"end":7647.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7647.81471875,"end":7647.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7648.60784375,"end":7649.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7661.9559687500005,"end":7662.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7663.964093750001,"end":7696.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7668.85784375,"end":7670.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7670.20784375,"end":7670.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7673.093468750001,"end":7673.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7694.389718750001,"end":7701.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7706.337218750001,"end":7706.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7706.387843750001,"end":7706.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7710.690968750001,"end":7713.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7714.42034375,"end":7715.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7719.4490937499995,"end":7719.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7719.8709687499995,"end":7719.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7719.921593750001,"end":7720.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7721.339093750001,"end":7797.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7798.154093749999,"end":7823.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7823.517218750001,"end":7844.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7846.5009687500005,"end":7852.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7852.00221875,"end":7852.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7852.255343750001,"end":7861.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7861.18221875,"end":7885.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7882.444718750001,"end":7882.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7883.59221875,"end":7888.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7887.70971875,"end":7909.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7909.90034375,"end":7921.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7916.21159375,"end":7916.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7921.74659375,"end":7933.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7932.95159375,"end":7933.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7933.019093750001,"end":7933.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7933.05284375,"end":7933.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7933.204718750001,"end":8022.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7933.2215937500005,"end":7933.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8023.1990937499995,"end":8023.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8024.1103437500005,"end":8025.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8026.28721875,"end":8047.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8029.4090937500005,"end":8029.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8029.729718750001,"end":8029.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8047.684718750001,"end":8050.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8051.16096875,"end":8063.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8051.65034375,"end":8052.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8062.3153437500005,"end":8062.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8063.665343750001,"end":8067.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8067.34409375,"end":8071.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8072.001593750001,"end":8080.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8080.6415937500005,"end":8080.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8080.8778437500005,"end":8080.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8080.911593750001,"end":8080.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8081.55284375,"end":8109.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8106.81471875,"end":8106.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8106.831593750001,"end":8112.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8109.05909375,"end":8109.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8119.403468750001,"end":8122.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8122.84596875,"end":8124.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8128.448468750001,"end":8169.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8169.35346875,"end":8184.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8184.57471875,"end":8207.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8208.70596875,"end":8212.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8212.92471875,"end":8225.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8222.40846875,"end":8223.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8224.16346875,"end":8258.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8258.875343750002,"end":8294.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8295.156593750002,"end":8326.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8327.320343750001,"end":8356.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8357.847218750001,"end":8361.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8361.82971875,"end":8377.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8378.14784375,"end":8422.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8423.355968750002,"end":8439.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8439.50534375,"end":8441.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8441.749718750001,"end":8451.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8452.11096875,"end":8453.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8453.76471875,"end":8454.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8455.55346875,"end":8456.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8455.587218750003,"end":8456.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8456.92034375,"end":8458.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8458.77659375,"end":8461.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8462.910968750002,"end":8464.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8464.88534375,"end":8524.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8525.719718750002,"end":8533.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8534.02221875,"end":8541.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8542.35846875,"end":8547.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8547.67409375,"end":8579.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8579.53409375,"end":8579.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8579.550968750002,"end":8581.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8580.141593750002,"end":8592.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8581.559093750002,"end":8581.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8581.727843750003,"end":8581.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8597.77596875,"end":8599.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8600.391593750002,"end":8601.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8605.352843750003,"end":8605.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8606.601593750001,"end":8617.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8617.637843750003,"end":8626.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8627.594093750002,"end":8628.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8628.77534375,"end":8651.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8651.55659375,"end":8660.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8661.20909375,"end":8661.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8661.85034375,"end":8664.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8664.78659375,"end":8665.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8665.10721875,"end":8671.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8671.01346875,"end":8671.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8671.95846875,"end":8673.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8672.65034375,"end":8679.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8678.742218750001,"end":8679.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8679.535343750002,"end":8679.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8679.56909375,"end":8725.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8723.66346875,"end":8727.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8727.375968750002,"end":8754.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8737.93971875,"end":8737.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8737.973468750002,"end":8738.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8738.445968750002,"end":8738.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8754.03846875,"end":8761.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8754.257843750001,"end":8754.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8754.91596875,"end":8755.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8761.969718750002,"end":8784.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8785.527218750001,"end":8788.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8787.332843750002,"end":8787.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8787.34971875,"end":8787.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8788.547843750002,"end":8796.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8796.68159375,"end":8803.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8803.515968750002,"end":8865.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8866.695968750002,"end":8866.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8866.71284375,"end":8872.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8872.14659375,"end":8915.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8915.86971875,"end":8915.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8915.954093750002,"end":8916.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8916.004718750002,"end":8921.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8922.46784375,"end":8935.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8932.559093750002,"end":8935.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8935.782218750002,"end":8935.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8935.96784375,"end":8936.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8936.00159375,"end":8936.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8936.01846875,"end":8938.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8936.035343750002,"end":8936.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8939.680343750002,"end":8945.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8945.417843750001,"end":8947.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8947.476593750001,"end":8950.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8950.581593750001,"end":8957.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8957.972843750002,"end":8966.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8966.039093750001,"end":8967.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8967.473468750002,"end":8970.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8971.152218750001,"end":8979.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8979.589718750001,"end":8985.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8986.49159375,"end":8991.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8991.030968750001,"end":8991.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8991.16596875,"end":8992.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8992.02659375,"end":8993.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8993.24159375,"end":8995.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8993.42721875,"end":8993.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8993.44409375,"end":8998.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8995.03034375,"end":8995.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9010.977218750002,"end":9011.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9014.976593750001,"end":9015.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9016.731593750003,"end":9016.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9028.965968750003,"end":9029.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9041.723468750002,"end":9043.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9043.613468750002,"end":9043.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9815.52659375,"end":9816.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9817.281593750002,"end":9819.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9825.53346875,"end":9827.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9828.43596875,"end":9829.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9834.66284375,"end":9834.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9834.679718750001,"end":9835.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9835.101593750001,"end":9901.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9902.399093750002,"end":10003.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10003.969718750002,"end":10114.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10114.804718750001,"end":10210.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10210.60409375,"end":10227.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10227.73221875,"end":10244.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10244.168468750002,"end":10257.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10245.78846875,"end":10245.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10256.21721875,"end":10256.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10257.145343750002,"end":10263.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10272.45096875,"end":10274.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10274.83034375,"end":10276.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10282.12034375,"end":10282.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10282.778468750003,"end":10299.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10300.581593750001,"end":10309.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10309.74471875,"end":10315.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10315.887218750002,"end":10322.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10323.51471875,"end":10323.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10324.105343750001,"end":10327.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10327.902218750001,"end":10328.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10328.745968750001,"end":10329.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10331.715968750003,"end":10337.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10337.605343750001,"end":10350.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10351.274093750002,"end":10367.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10367.49096875,"end":10370.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10371.01784375,"end":10375.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10376.265968750002,"end":10392.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10393.394093750001,"end":10397.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10398.034718750001,"end":10412.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10412.243468750003,"end":10424.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10425.33846875,"end":10427.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10428.13971875,"end":10430.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10431.379718750002,"end":10436.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10437.50534375,"end":10442.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10443.69846875,"end":10461.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10462.024718750003,"end":10473.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10475.33909375,"end":10511.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10511.82284375,"end":10517.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10515.56909375,"end":10517.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10517.762843750003,"end":10520.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10521.00284375,"end":10529.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10527.48284375,"end":10572.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10547.36159375,"end":10547.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10547.41221875,"end":10547.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10547.47971875,"end":10547.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10572.539093750001,"end":10578.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10578.715343750002,"end":10581.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10581.786593750003,"end":10607.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10607.250968750002,"end":10609.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10607.402843750002,"end":10609.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10609.96784375,"end":10615.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10615.33409375,"end":10635.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10635.65159375,"end":10643.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10641.051593750002,"end":10651.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10651.29471875,"end":10673.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10668.743468750003,"end":10668.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10668.794093750003,"end":10669.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10674.008468750002,"end":10679.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10680.488468750002,"end":10685.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10685.550968750002,"end":10689.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10689.33096875,"end":10690.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10690.039718750002,"end":10695.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10705.277843750002,"end":10706.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10706.594093750002,"end":10707.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10708.19721875,"end":10723.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10716.90471875,"end":10717.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10718.895968750003,"end":10719.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10724.903468750003,"end":10748.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10725.08909375,"end":10725.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10725.12284375,"end":10725.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10749.50721875,"end":10799.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10800.317843750003,"end":10801.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10801.90409375,"end":10802.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10803.034718750001,"end":10847.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10848.884093750003,"end":10879.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10880.558468750001,"end":10893.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10893.974093750003,"end":10915.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10913.852843750003,"end":10914.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10915.08471875,"end":10935.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10924.73721875,"end":10924.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10924.973468750002,"end":10926.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10929.37784375,"end":10929.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10929.394718750002,"end":10929.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10932.73596875,"end":10933.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10934.254718750002,"end":10943.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10938.844718750002,"end":10939.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10943.384093750003,"end":10951.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10951.602218750002,"end":10972.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10972.76346875,"end":10974.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10975.007843750001,"end":10980.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10976.273468750001,"end":10976.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10978.922843750002,"end":10979.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":10980.863468750002,"end":11002.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10987.343468750001,"end":10987.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11002.78409375,"end":11002.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11002.969718750002,"end":11045.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11011.879718750002,"end":11012.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11015.84534375,"end":11016.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11023.574093750001,"end":11025.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11035.63971875,"end":11036.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11037.023468750001,"end":11037.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11040.820343750001,"end":11045.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11045.629718750002,"end":11045.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11045.66346875,"end":11045.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11045.74784375,"end":11045.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11045.933468750001,"end":11046.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11046.034718750001,"end":11054.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11050.38846875,"end":11051.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11053.628468750001,"end":11054.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11054.87721875,"end":11055.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11055.02909375,"end":11061.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11055.07971875,"end":11055.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11058.437843750002,"end":11059.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11059.51784375,"end":11065.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11063.179718750001,"end":11063.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11065.96409375,"end":11071.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11066.520968750003,"end":11069.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11070.23346875,"end":11079.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11079.852218750002,"end":11143.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11084.88096875,"end":11084.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11085.20159375,"end":11085.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11085.336593750002,"end":11085.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11085.35346875,"end":11085.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11091.31034375,"end":11091.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11091.394718750002,"end":11091.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11112.640343750001,"end":11112.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11118.867218750001,"end":11119.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11119.20471875,"end":11119.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11141.42909375,"end":11141.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11143.09971875,"end":11150.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11148.21284375,"end":11157.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11153.140343750001,"end":11154.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11154.473468750002,"end":11154.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11154.54096875,"end":11154.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11156.009093750003,"end":11157.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11157.96659375,"end":11164.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11158.067843750003,"end":11158.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11158.86096875,"end":11159.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":11160.582218750002,"end":11160.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11166.35346875,"end":11167.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11173.255343750003,"end":11173.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11174.554718750001,"end":11180.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11180.66346875,"end":11181.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11181.152843750002,"end":11181.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11181.473468750002,"end":11181.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11181.64221875,"end":11181.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11186.434718750003,"end":11189.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11190.19784375,"end":11199.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11200.62659375,"end":11204.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11202.989093750002,"end":11203.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11205.28409375,"end":11208.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11208.254093750002,"end":11208.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11208.270968750003,"end":11208.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11208.355343750001,"end":11217.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11208.49034375,"end":11208.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11217.34971875,"end":11223.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11223.10409375,"end":11225.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11227.15409375,"end":11228.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11228.68971875,"end":11230.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11230.782218750002,"end":11246.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11233.414718750002,"end":11233.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11239.55721875,"end":11242.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11242.81409375,"end":11242.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11243.65784375,"end":11244.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11246.03721875,"end":11247.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11247.555968750003,"end":11247.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11247.707843750002,"end":11247.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11247.758468750002,"end":11253.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11253.512843750003,"end":11255.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11255.31846875,"end":11255.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11255.33534375,"end":11255.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11255.352218750002,"end":11258.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11258.49096875,"end":11260.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11260.60034375,"end":11260.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11260.70159375,"end":11265.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11265.679718750001,"end":11280.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11275.534718750001,"end":11275.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11276.715968750003,"end":11276.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11276.817218750002,"end":11277.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11277.964718750001,"end":11277.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11277.99846875,"end":11278.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11278.47096875,"end":11278.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11280.64784375,"end":11298.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11298.02909375,"end":11301.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11300.93159375,"end":11303.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11303.14221875,"end":11308.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11303.93534375,"end":11312.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11312.49096875,"end":11316.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11317.215968750003,"end":11331.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11318.852843750003,"end":11319.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11324.286593750003,"end":11324.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11330.85096875,"end":11331.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11331.62721875,"end":11331.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11331.964718750001,"end":11332.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11332.133468750002,"end":11332.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11332.21784375,"end":11337.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11332.302218750003,"end":11333.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11335.761593750001,"end":11338.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11338.664093750001,"end":11342.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11342.950343750003,"end":11364.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11364.95534375,"end":11390.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11371.840343750002,"end":11371.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11371.85721875,"end":11372.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11372.44784375,"end":11373.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11373.03846875,"end":11373.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11375.77221875,"end":11375.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11375.805968750003,"end":11376.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11376.902843750002,"end":11377.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11390.132843750001,"end":11400.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11392.191593750002,"end":11395.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11400.831593750001,"end":11403.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11403.61596875,"end":11404.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11404.020968750003,"end":11404.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11404.03784375,"end":11409.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11406.906593750002,"end":11418.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11417.89221875,"end":11421.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11421.081593750001,"end":11421.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11421.63846875,"end":11421.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11421.75659375,"end":11425.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11421.95909375,"end":11434.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11434.024718750003,"end":11434.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11434.04159375,"end":11434.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11434.868468750003,"end":11445.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11445.921593750001,"end":11457.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11456.519093750001,"end":11465.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11463.640343750001,"end":11467.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11468.280968750001,"end":11471.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11473.37721875,"end":11473.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11484.109718750002,"end":11484.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11484.12659375,"end":11486.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11487.36659375,"end":11489.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11492.04096875,"end":11503.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11504.039093750001,"end":11510.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11510.805968750003,"end":11512.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11513.370968750001,"end":11513.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11514.602843750003,"end":11515.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11514.61971875,"end":11516.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11516.661593750003,"end":11522.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11522.80409375,"end":11523.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11524.20471875,"end":11527.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11527.714718750001,"end":11532.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11531.49471875,"end":11531.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11532.60846875,"end":11535.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11536.523468750001,"end":11538.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11539.61159375,"end":11541.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11542.159718750001,"end":11546.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11547.15471875,"end":11547.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11548.42034375,"end":11549.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11549.770343750002,"end":11552.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11552.16659375,"end":11552.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11552.38596875,"end":11552.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11552.63909375,"end":11552.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11552.90909375,"end":11557.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11557.92096875,"end":11558.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11558.37659375,"end":11558.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11559.726593750001,"end":11562.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11562.39284375,"end":11562.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11562.899093750002,"end":11563.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11563.489718750003,"end":11564.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11563.82721875,"end":11563.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11563.911593750003,"end":11564.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11564.02971875,"end":11564.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11564.164718750002,"end":11564.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11564.485343750002,"end":11564.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11564.755343750003,"end":11564.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11565.160343750002,"end":11565.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11565.210968750001,"end":11565.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11565.41346875,"end":11565.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11565.86909375,"end":11565.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11565.953468750002,"end":11565.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11565.97034375,"end":11566.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11568.34971875,"end":11577.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11577.985343750002,"end":11578.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11578.79534375,"end":11580.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11581.664093750001,"end":11585.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11585.190968750001,"end":11590.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11591.215343750002,"end":11592.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11593.476593750001,"end":11596.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11597.864093750002,"end":11598.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11599.36596875,"end":11601.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11601.57659375,"end":11603.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11604.124718750001,"end":11605.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11605.96409375,"end":11606.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11607.22971875,"end":11607.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11609.11971875,"end":11612.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11612.64659375,"end":11613.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11613.06846875,"end":11618.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11618.468468750001,"end":11620.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11620.965968750003,"end":11622.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11623.26096875,"end":11626.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11627.41221875,"end":11630.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11631.69846875,"end":11634.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11634.972218750001,"end":11636.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11637.503468750001,"end":11637.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11638.12784375,"end":11638.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11639.74784375,"end":11640.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11640.945968750002,"end":11641.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11642.144093750001,"end":11646.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11646.49784375,"end":11647.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11648.35409375,"end":11653.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11654.378468750001,"end":11655.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11655.762218750002,"end":11657.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11657.90534375,"end":11662.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11664.48659375,"end":11669.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11664.520343750002,"end":11664.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11664.55409375,"end":11664.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11664.942218750002,"end":11665.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11670.02159375,"end":11671.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11671.574093750001,"end":11672.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11673.54846875,"end":11674.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11675.18534375,"end":11676.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11676.67034375,"end":11677.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11678.340968750003,"end":11680.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11680.703468750002,"end":11682.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11683.285343750002,"end":11688.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11688.820343750001,"end":11691.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11691.840968750003,"end":11693.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11693.207843750002,"end":11696.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11696.414093750001,"end":11700.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11700.81846875,"end":11701.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11702.961593750002,"end":11705.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11707.382843750001,"end":11711.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11711.550968750002,"end":11715.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11715.769718750002,"end":11717.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11718.047843750002,"end":11719.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11720.27534375,"end":11724.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11724.98346875,"end":11726.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11727.801593750002,"end":11732.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11732.762843750003,"end":11733.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11736.188468750002,"end":11741.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11741.33534375,"end":11741.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11742.53346875,"end":11748.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11748.91221875,"end":11749.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11749.03034375,"end":11749.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11749.722218750001,"end":11749.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11749.739093750002,"end":11749.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11749.75596875,"end":11749.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11750.29596875,"end":11750.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11750.32971875,"end":11751.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11751.49409375,"end":11752.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11752.641593750002,"end":11759.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11759.374718750001,"end":11759.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11760.235343750002,"end":11764.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11764.53846875,"end":11765.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11765.618468750003,"end":11770.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11770.512218750002,"end":11772.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11773.27971875,"end":11774.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11775.60846875,"end":11778.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11779.72596875,"end":11780.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11781.34596875,"end":11788.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11788.230968750002,"end":11799.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11788.31534375,"end":11788.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11792.31471875,"end":11792.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11795.06534375,"end":11795.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11796.17909375,"end":11796.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11796.22971875,"end":11796.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11796.60096875,"end":11796.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11796.617843750002,"end":11796.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11799.621593750002,"end":11799.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11800.12784375,"end":11800.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11801.86596875,"end":11803.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11804.34659375,"end":11806.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11806.55721875,"end":11807.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11807.97471875,"end":11810.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11811.805343750002,"end":11814.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11814.437843750002,"end":11815.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11815.872218750003,"end":11816.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11817.441593750002,"end":11822.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11822.976593750001,"end":11823.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11824.57971875,"end":11829.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11829.945968750002,"end":11831.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11832.17346875,"end":11833.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11833.55721875,"end":11834.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11835.29534375,"end":11837.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11838.19784375,"end":11840.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11841.235343750002,"end":11844.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11845.555343750002,"end":11847.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11847.47909375,"end":11855.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11855.96721875,"end":11857.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11857.70534375,"end":11858.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11858.61659375,"end":11859.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11859.03846875,"end":11859.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11860.270343750002,"end":11862.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11863.071593750003,"end":11863.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11863.83096875,"end":11864.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11865.164093750001,"end":11865.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11866.446593750003,"end":11867.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11867.50971875,"end":11869.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11871.019718750002,"end":11873.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11874.192218750002,"end":11882.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11882.44409375,"end":11882.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11882.781593750002,"end":11889.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11882.91659375,"end":11883.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11890.206593750001,"end":11905.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11906.86221875,"end":11907.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11907.97596875,"end":11908.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11909.29221875,"end":11909.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11911.367843750002,"end":11912.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11913.156593750002,"end":11913.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11914.911593750003,"end":11915.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11915.87346875,"end":11917.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11918.759093750003,"end":11920.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11921.05409375,"end":11925.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11925.087218750003,"end":11927.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11927.93909375,"end":11933.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11931.95534375,"end":11932.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11932.96784375,"end":11934.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11934.030968750001,"end":11934.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11934.21659375,"end":11941.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11942.40096875,"end":11945.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11945.94471875,"end":11947.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11947.750343750002,"end":11948.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11948.965343750002,"end":11951.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11951.969093750002,"end":11952.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11952.05346875,"end":11953.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11954.702843750001,"end":11955.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11955.462218750003,"end":11958.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11959.259093750003,"end":11961.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11961.70596875,"end":11963.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11964.152843750002,"end":11967.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11967.96659375,"end":11968.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11969.957843750002,"end":11971.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11970.07596875,"end":11970.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11970.210968750001,"end":11970.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11970.227843750003,"end":11970.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11970.86909375,"end":11971.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11971.03784375,"end":11971.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11971.24034375,"end":11972.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11972.843468750001,"end":11981.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11973.704093750002,"end":11976.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11979.171593750001,"end":11979.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11979.981593750003,"end":11984.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11984.875343750002,"end":11990.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11991.49034375,"end":11991.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11991.59159375,"end":11991.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11991.65909375,"end":11991.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11991.794093750003,"end":11996.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11992.418468750002,"end":11993.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11994.899093750002,"end":12000.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11996.890343750001,"end":11998.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12001.547843750002,"end":12004.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12001.817843750003,"end":12001.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12005.024093750002,"end":12009.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12006.644093750001,"end":12007.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12008.46659375,"end":12012.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12012.68534375,"end":12016.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12017.106593750003,"end":12018.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12019.33409375,"end":12021.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12021.831593750001,"end":12021.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12021.848468750002,"end":12021.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12021.88221875,"end":12023.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12022.050968750002,"end":12022.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12022.60784375,"end":12023.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12023.99159375,"end":12025.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12025.03784375,"end":12025.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12025.40909375,"end":12025.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12025.476593750001,"end":12025.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12026.067218750002,"end":12026.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12026.438468750002,"end":12027.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12027.282218750002,"end":12027.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12027.61971875,"end":12027.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12027.737843750001,"end":12029.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12028.68284375,"end":12029.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12029.03721875,"end":12029.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12029.442218750002,"end":12029.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12029.47596875,"end":12029.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12030.15096875,"end":12037.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12030.640343750001,"end":12033.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12034.926593750002,"end":12048.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12038.38596875,"end":12039.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12045.23721875,"end":12045.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12046.50284375,"end":12047.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12047.02596875,"end":12048.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12048.96659375,"end":12049.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12049.169093750003,"end":12052.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12049.30409375,"end":12050.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12050.45159375,"end":12051.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12051.02534375,"end":12069.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12052.30784375,"end":12052.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12077.08034375,"end":12082.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12082.649093750002,"end":12084.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12084.977843750003,"end":12085.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12089.11221875,"end":12110.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12110.35784375,"end":12114.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12114.390968750002,"end":12117.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12119.43659375,"end":12132.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12125.089718750001,"end":12125.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12129.86534375,"end":12130.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12131.14784375,"end":12134.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12134.67471875,"end":12140.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12137.30721875,"end":12137.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12141.05346875,"end":12145.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12145.37346875,"end":12172.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12173.301593750002,"end":12177.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12178.262843750003,"end":12188.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12188.35409375,"end":12258.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12260.02221875,"end":12315.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12316.266593750002,"end":12324.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12324.265343750001,"end":12367.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12343.38471875,"end":12343.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12367.81971875,"end":12376.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12376.51034375,"end":12390.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12389.824718750002,"end":12415.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12391.57971875,"end":12392.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12393.26721875,"end":12393.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12416.082218750002,"end":12417.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12417.85409375,"end":12423.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12423.81096875,"end":12431.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12430.66221875,"end":12481.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12431.759093750003,"end":12432.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12481.844093750002,"end":12490.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12490.41659375,"end":12491.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12491.90159375,"end":12493.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12493.032218750002,"end":12493.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12493.454093750002,"end":12493.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12493.47096875,"end":12493.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12496.862843750001,"end":12497.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12498.11159375,"end":12498.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12498.972218750001,"end":12498.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12499.00596875,"end":12501.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12501.75659375,"end":12503.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12504.97971875,"end":12507.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12507.224093750003,"end":12507.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12507.645968750003,"end":12512.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12513.87284375,"end":12514.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12518.715968750003,"end":12523.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12523.440968750001,"end":12525.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12526.343468750001,"end":12527.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12531.97971875,"end":12532.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12532.637843750003,"end":12533.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12533.785343750002,"end":12535.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12535.962218750003,"end":12536.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12537.29534375,"end":12537.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12538.425968750002,"end":12540.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12540.602843750003,"end":12546.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12546.036593750003,"end":12546.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12546.188468750002,"end":12546.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12546.593468750001,"end":12546.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12546.62721875,"end":12556.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12551.723468750002,"end":12552.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12553.02284375,"end":12554.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12555.047843750002,"end":12555.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12556.22909375,"end":12556.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12556.262843750003,"end":12557.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12556.313468750002,"end":12560.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12561.730343750001,"end":12562.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12563.50221875,"end":12565.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12565.88159375,"end":12567.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12567.231593750003,"end":12576.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12570.606593750003,"end":12576.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12578.352218750002,"end":12578.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12578.352218750002,"end":12578.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12578.38596875,"end":12579.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12578.68971875,"end":12578.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12579.01034375,"end":12579.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12579.21284375,"end":12579.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12579.26346875,"end":12588.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12588.76409375,"end":12593.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12593.759093750003,"end":12596.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12596.644718750002,"end":12601.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12601.875968750002,"end":12603.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12603.563468750002,"end":12604.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12605.504093750002,"end":12606.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12610.161593750003,"end":12611.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12611.984093750001,"end":12613.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12614.481593750003,"end":12617.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12614.49846875,"end":12614.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12618.480968750002,"end":12632.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12625.534718750001,"end":12626.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12627.019718750002,"end":12627.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12630.74909375,"end":12631.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12632.301593750002,"end":12633.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12633.938468750002,"end":12634.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12636.570968750002,"end":12638.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12639.000968750002,"end":12640.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12641.532218750002,"end":12642.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12642.629093750002,"end":12649.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12650.18909375,"end":12652.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12652.349093750003,"end":12653.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12654.019718750002,"end":12655.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12655.184093750002,"end":12657.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12658.05284375,"end":12661.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12661.44471875,"end":12667.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12668.565968750001,"end":12678.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12679.872218750003,"end":12682.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12681.762218750002,"end":12682.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12683.09534375,"end":12683.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12683.280968750001,"end":12691.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12691.718468750001,"end":12692.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12692.37659375,"end":12704.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12704.25659375,"end":12711.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12712.54221875,"end":12713.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12714.26346875,"end":12715.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12716.187218750001,"end":12717.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12717.419093750003,"end":12727.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12727.915343750003,"end":12729.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12730.277843750002,"end":12732.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12733.450343750003,"end":12738.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12736.926593750002,"end":12737.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12738.10784375,"end":12740.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12740.892218750003,"end":12746.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12746.528468750003,"end":12749.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12749.802218750003,"end":12759.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12759.032843750003,"end":12776.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12777.359093750001,"end":12784.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12784.699718750002,"end":12798.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12792.192218750002,"end":12792.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12794.11596875,"end":12797.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12797.929718750001,"end":12807.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12807.852218750002,"end":12816.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12816.37409375,"end":12823.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12823.410968750002,"end":12823.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12823.64721875,"end":12823.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12823.680968750003,"end":12824.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12824.035343750002,"end":12825.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12825.689093750003,"end":12830.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12830.380343750003,"end":12837.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12837.754718750002,"end":12845.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12845.820968750002,"end":12846.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12846.563468750002,"end":12851.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12850.394093750001,"end":12853.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12851.59221875,"end":12852.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12853.161593750003,"end":12863.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12864.332843750002,"end":12870.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12871.352843750003,"end":12871.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12871.36971875,"end":12876.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12876.465968750003,"end":12890.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12891.231593750003,"end":12892.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12892.345343750003,"end":12896.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12896.20971875,"end":12901.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12901.457843750002,"end":12901.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12901.879718750002,"end":12905.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12905.86221875,"end":12907.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":12907.80284375,"end":12909.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12916.274093750002,"end":12921.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12921.977843750003,"end":12928.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12939.375968750002,"end":12940.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12941.08034375,"end":12943.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12943.797218750002,"end":12945.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12945.04596875,"end":12945.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12945.501593750003,"end":12945.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12946.68284375,"end":12947.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12946.868468750003,"end":12946.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12946.902218750001,"end":12948.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12948.31971875,"end":12949.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12948.910343750002,"end":12948.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12949.011593750001,"end":12949.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12949.26471875,"end":12949.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12949.66971875,"end":12949.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12949.703468750002,"end":12949.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12954.968468750001,"end":12955.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12955.677218750003,"end":12958.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12958.84971875,"end":12974.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12975.083468750003,"end":12979.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12979.403468750003,"end":12980.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12980.618468750003,"end":12987.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12988.094093750002,"end":12996.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12996.430343750002,"end":13002.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13002.859718750002,"end":13034.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13035.023468750001,"end":13041.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13041.95909375,"end":13093.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13093.86659375,"end":13106.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13107.130343750003,"end":13113.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13113.610343750002,"end":13137.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13137.72471875,"end":13146.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13143.833468750003,"end":13144.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13144.035968750002,"end":13144.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13144.12034375,"end":13144.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13146.921593750001,"end":13153.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13151.07284375,"end":13151.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13152.38909375,"end":13239.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13241.691593750002,"end":13250.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13250.179718750001,"end":13270.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13270.750343750002,"end":13275.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13274.58096875,"end":13276.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13276.42034375,"end":13277.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13277.145968750003,"end":13279.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13278.141593750002,"end":13282.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13283.22096875,"end":13314.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13314.86159375,"end":13323.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13323.231593750003,"end":13345.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13342.418468750002,"end":13350.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13348.18971875,"end":13349.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13350.46784375,"end":13359.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13358.331593750001,"end":13362.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13360.761593750001,"end":13361.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13362.027218750001,"end":13367.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13365.300968750002,"end":13372.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13371.76409375,"end":13378.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13383.542843750001,"end":13386.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13386.968468750001,"end":13387.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13387.289093750001,"end":13388.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13392.97596875,"end":13393.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13393.00971875,"end":13393.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13393.364093750002,"end":13399.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13398.56159375,"end":13400.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13399.793468750002,"end":13400.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13400.704718750003,"end":13421.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13421.933468750001,"end":13458.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13459.61534375,"end":13482.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13483.054718750001,"end":13533.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13497.449093750001,"end":13497.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13503.355343750001,"end":13503.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13509.261593750001,"end":13509.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13509.970343750003,"end":13510.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13510.25721875,"end":13510.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13510.30784375,"end":13510.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13510.442843750003,"end":13510.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13511.13471875,"end":13511.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13529.410343750002,"end":13529.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13531.08096875,"end":13610.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13611.692843750003,"end":13640.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13617.71721875,"end":13618.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13641.02159375,"end":13651.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13652.05784375,"end":13655.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13655.078468750002,"end":13661.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13660.292843750001,"end":13666.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13662.689093750003,"end":13662.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13667.44784375,"end":13675.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13674.737843750001,"end":13674.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13675.429718750001,"end":13755.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13744.245968750001,"end":13744.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13744.262843750003,"end":13744.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13744.347218750001,"end":13744.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13755.29909375,"end":13759.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13759.36596875,"end":13833.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13833.582218750002,"end":13835.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13835.40471875,"end":13835.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":13835.82659375,"end":13837.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13835.910968750002,"end":13836.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13836.012218750002,"end":13837.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13837.699718750002,"end":13840.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13840.551593750002,"end":13843.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13857.831593750001,"end":13863.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13867.433468750001,"end":13867.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13868.766593750002,"end":13873.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13874.75721875,"end":13880.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13881.08534375,"end":13883.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13882.03034375,"end":13884.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13885.253468750001,"end":13885.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13886.02971875,"end":13886.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13886.97471875,"end":13886.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13886.99159375,"end":13893.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13893.62346875,"end":13894.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13894.99034375,"end":13896.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13896.84659375,"end":13905.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13906.617218750001,"end":13913.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13914.177218750003,"end":13923.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13923.863468750002,"end":13927.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13927.91346875,"end":13933.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13934.055968750003,"end":13940.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13941.76784375,"end":13948.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13948.956593750001,"end":13962.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13963.064093750003,"end":13964.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13965.02159375,"end":13966.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13966.75971875,"end":13972.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13973.20596875,"end":13988.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13988.460968750001,"end":13989.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13989.49034375,"end":13990.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13990.840343750002,"end":13994.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13995.531593750002,"end":13998.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":13998.78846875,"end":14000.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14001.066593750002,"end":14002.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14002.754093750002,"end":14005.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14005.52159375,"end":14006.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14006.517218750003,"end":14008.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14008.204718750003,"end":14009.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14009.95971875,"end":14011.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14011.410968750002,"end":14011.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14011.86659375,"end":14013.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14013.672218750002,"end":14019.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14019.86534375,"end":14020.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14021.282843750003,"end":14031.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14031.171593750001,"end":14032.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14033.027843750002,"end":14036.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14036.875343750002,"end":14039.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14039.254718750002,"end":14046.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14047.067843750003,"end":14048.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14050.03784375,"end":14051.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14051.708468750003,"end":14052.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14053.09221875,"end":14054.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14055.15096875,"end":14060.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14060.618468750003,"end":14062.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14063.082218750002,"end":14064.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14064.43221875,"end":14066.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14067.267218750003,"end":14067.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14068.465343750002,"end":14070.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14071.418468750002,"end":14071.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14071.97534375,"end":14079.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14078.489093750002,"end":14090.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14090.36909375,"end":14093.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14093.96346875,"end":14096.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14096.66346875,"end":14098.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14096.899718750003,"end":14107.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14099.97096875,"end":14100.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14114.517218750003,"end":14115.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14116.32284375,"end":14117.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14122.634093750003,"end":14122.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14122.65096875,"end":14123.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14123.309093750002,"end":14131.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14130.91971875,"end":14131.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14131.797218750002,"end":14138.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14138.95221875,"end":14138.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14138.985968750003,"end":14179.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14145.48284375,"end":14145.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14145.972218750001,"end":14146.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14146.52909375,"end":14146.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14154.86534375,"end":14155.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14180.009093750003,"end":14201.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14199.85409375,"end":14202.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14201.895968750003,"end":14210.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14210.24909375,"end":14211.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14211.29534375,"end":14213.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14213.894093750001,"end":14239.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14220.644093750001,"end":14220.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14240.640968750002,"end":14335.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14274.74534375,"end":14274.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14274.77909375,"end":14275.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14333.655968750001,"end":14333.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14336.11971875,"end":14336.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14336.153468750003,"end":14339.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14339.24159375,"end":14339.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14340.000968750002,"end":14346.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14346.548468750003,"end":14349.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14349.923468750003,"end":14351.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14351.239718750003,"end":14354.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14354.277218750001,"end":14357.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14358.023468750001,"end":14365.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14364.790343750003,"end":14365.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14365.296593750001,"end":14377.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14375.860343750002,"end":14383.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14388.668468750002,"end":14390.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14390.86221875,"end":14392.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14395.620968750001,"end":14395.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14395.637843750003,"end":14395.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14396.22846875,"end":14399.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14401.34159375,"end":14406.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14406.640343750001,"end":14407.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14407.58534375,"end":14409.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14409.74534375,"end":14410.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14412.884093750003,"end":14414.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14414.68971875,"end":14420.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14420.579093750002,"end":14421.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14421.96284375,"end":14423.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14423.86971875,"end":14424.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14425.08471875,"end":14440.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14440.91346875,"end":14442.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14442.43221875,"end":14445.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14445.469718750002,"end":14448.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14448.692843750003,"end":14449.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14449.75596875,"end":14452.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14452.590968750003,"end":14455.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14455.45971875,"end":14466.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14466.63096875,"end":14468.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14468.402843750002,"end":14470.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14470.343468750001,"end":14472.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14472.722843750002,"end":14473.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14474.17409375,"end":14477.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14477.76846875,"end":14479.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14480.164718750002,"end":14482.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14482.544093750003,"end":14484.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14485.058468750001,"end":14487.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14487.82596875,"end":14491.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14491.386593750001,"end":14493.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14493.42846875,"end":14496.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14497.664093750001,"end":14505.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14505.274718750003,"end":14508.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14509.122218750003,"end":14512.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14512.78409375,"end":14512.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14512.969718750002,"end":14515.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14515.720343750003,"end":14519.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14519.53409375,"end":14532.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14532.645968750003,"end":14549.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14549.892218750003,"end":14555.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14550.415343750003,"end":14551.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14553.419093750003,"end":14556.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14556.051593750002,"end":14556.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14556.743468750003,"end":14556.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14556.76034375,"end":14556.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14556.878468750001,"end":14556.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14556.96284375,"end":14556.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14556.97971875,"end":14556.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14556.996593750002,"end":14557.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14557.03034375,"end":14558.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14558.59971875,"end":14567.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14559.257843750001,"end":14559.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14567.67846875,"end":14571.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14571.120968750001,"end":14573.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14573.618468750003,"end":14578.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14578.410968750002,"end":14586.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14586.96659375,"end":14598.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14599.09971875,"end":14600.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14600.820968750002,"end":14603.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14603.520968750003,"end":14603.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14604.26346875,"end":14608.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14608.75221875,"end":14611.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14612.009093750003,"end":14617.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14617.206593750001,"end":14622.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14623.112843750001,"end":14624.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14624.344718750002,"end":14633.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14633.96346875,"end":14637.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14638.097843750002,"end":14645.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14644.527218750001,"end":14646.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14646.61971875,"end":14674.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14675.442218750002,"end":14682.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14682.495968750001,"end":14683.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14683.96409375,"end":14685.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14685.550343750001,"end":14702.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14702.189093750003,"end":14702.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14702.762843750003,"end":14703.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14703.032843750003,"end":14705.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14705.95221875,"end":14709.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14709.68159375,"end":14718.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14719.18221875,"end":14727.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14719.249718750001,"end":14719.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14728.007843750001,"end":14728.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14728.024718750003,"end":14734.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14734.859093750001,"end":14747.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14748.105968750002,"end":14749.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14749.92846875,"end":14763.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14755.598468750002,"end":14755.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14755.61534375,"end":14755.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14755.969718750002,"end":14756.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14757.42096875,"end":14757.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14764.06971875,"end":14768.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14768.27159375,"end":14770.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14771.66346875,"end":14779.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14779.45971875,"end":14779.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14779.915343750003,"end":14780.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14780.539718750002,"end":14780.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14780.57346875,"end":14782.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14780.590343750002,"end":14794.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14794.59659375,"end":14794.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14794.613468750002,"end":14814.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":14808.88971875,"end":14811.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14814.99846875,"end":14825.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14825.69721875,"end":14829.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14830.050968750002,"end":14830.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14830.793468750002,"end":14835.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14835.923468750003,"end":14840.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14840.867843750002,"end":14845.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14843.80409375,"end":14852.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14855.24534375,"end":14855.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14855.262218750002,"end":14855.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14855.329718750003,"end":14855.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14855.34659375,"end":14855.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14855.430968750003,"end":14855.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14863.61534375,"end":14867.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14867.294093750003,"end":14868.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":14868.930968750003,"end":14870.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14874.53346875,"end":14877.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14877.97596875,"end":14898.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14898.715343750002,"end":14901.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14901.887843750003,"end":14903.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14903.558468750001,"end":14905.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14905.583468750003,"end":14907.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14907.92909375,"end":14909.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14910.02159375,"end":14912.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14913.09284375,"end":14923.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14923.808468750001,"end":14927.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14927.504093750002,"end":14930.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14930.575343750003,"end":14930.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14931.317843750003,"end":14932.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14933.66346875,"end":14938.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14939.19846875,"end":14939.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14940.86909375,"end":14950.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14950.757843750001,"end":14954.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14954.504093750002,"end":14960.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14960.477843750003,"end":14962.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14962.38471875,"end":14964.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14964.24096875,"end":14965.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14965.590968750003,"end":14967.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14968.122218750003,"end":14969.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14970.484718750002,"end":14973.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14973.589718750001,"end":14974.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14975.58096875,"end":14978.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14978.567843750003,"end":14981.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14982.28034375,"end":15015.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14997.585968750001,"end":14997.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15015.642218750003,"end":15017.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15017.886593750001,"end":15019.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15020.097218750001,"end":15031.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15031.63971875,"end":15036.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15036.63471875,"end":15038.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15039.65534375,"end":15044.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15045.46034375,"end":15053.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15053.20596875,"end":15055.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15055.46721875,"end":15057.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15057.964718750001,"end":15068.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15068.207843750002,"end":15077.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15077.45534375,"end":15078.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15078.14721875,"end":15084.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15084.79596875,"end":15087.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15087.74909375,"end":15090.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15089.01471875,"end":15091.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15092.187218750001,"end":15096.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15097.33409375,"end":15107.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15108.707843750002,"end":15114.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15115.609718750002,"end":15117.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15117.95534375,"end":15121.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15122.106593750003,"end":15125.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":15125.49846875,"end":15130.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15134.020343750002,"end":15137.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15137.935343750003,"end":15140.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15140.702843750001,"end":15143.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15143.26784375,"end":15148.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15148.65096875,"end":15149.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15150.591593750003,"end":15151.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15151.300343750001,"end":15153.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15153.46034375,"end":15156.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15156.44721875,"end":15159.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15159.484718750002,"end":15164.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15164.41221875,"end":15174.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15174.402218750001,"end":15175.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15175.75221875,"end":15177.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15177.844718750002,"end":15181.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15181.962218750003,"end":15184.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15184.83096875,"end":15191.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15192.120968750001,"end":15200.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15200.507843750001,"end":15211.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15211.56096875,"end":15213.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15214.46346875,"end":15218.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15219.070343750001,"end":15222.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15223.019093750001,"end":15226.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15227.86221875,"end":15230.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15230.427218750003,"end":15232.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15232.367843750002,"end":15233.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15234.19034375,"end":15243.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15244.36596875,"end":15246.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15248.044718750003,"end":15250.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15251.11596875,"end":15253.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15253.934093750002,"end":15255.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15255.672218750002,"end":15260.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15261.730343750001,"end":15266.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15266.35409375,"end":15267.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15268.176593750002,"end":15271.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15272.20971875,"end":15278.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15279.263468750003,"end":15294.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15295.007843750001,"end":15298.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15298.922843750002,"end":15303.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15303.32721875,"end":15306.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15307.32659375,"end":15311.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15311.96721875,"end":15315.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15315.51096875,"end":15319.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15319.645343750002,"end":15322.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15322.41284375,"end":15324.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15326.327843750001,"end":15329.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15329.972843750002,"end":15332.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15332.976593750001,"end":15334.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15334.512218750002,"end":15336.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15336.53721875,"end":15339.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15340.08096875,"end":15343.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15343.35471875,"end":15354.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15355.065968750001,"end":15358.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15358.930343750002,"end":15361.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15362.507843750001,"end":15368.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15369.055343750002,"end":15370.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15370.844093750002,"end":15372.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15372.750968750002,"end":15376.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15376.952843750001,"end":15379.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15379.602218750002,"end":15382.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15383.044718750003,"end":15386.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15387.33096875,"end":15389.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15390.267218750003,"end":15392.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15392.81534375,"end":15395.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15395.363468750002,"end":15398.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15398.434718750003,"end":15398.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15399.34596875,"end":15403.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15403.480343750001,"end":15403.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15403.98659375,"end":15407.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15407.41221875,"end":15412.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15413.132843750001,"end":15415.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15416.355968750002,"end":15420.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15420.524093750002,"end":15425.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15427.493468750003,"end":15428.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15429.214718750001,"end":15434.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15434.867843750002,"end":15435.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15436.184093750002,"end":15439.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15441.22971875,"end":15447.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15447.675968750002,"end":15452.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15452.56971875,"end":15454.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15455.387843750003,"end":15458.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15459.437843750002,"end":15461.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15462.74534375,"end":15463.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15463.94346875,"end":15464.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15464.83784375,"end":15468.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15469.00596875,"end":15471.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15472.27971875,"end":15477.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15478.017218750003,"end":15479.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15479.62034375,"end":15483.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15484.497218750003,"end":15489.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15490.352843750003,"end":15496.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15497.01846875,"end":15504.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15504.780968750001,"end":15507.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15507.750968750002,"end":15510.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15511.36221875,"end":15512.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15513.15096875,"end":15513.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15514.399718750003,"end":15517.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15518.939093750003,"end":15521.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15522.719093750002,"end":15524.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15524.625968750002,"end":15527.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15527.680343750002,"end":15529.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15529.890968750002,"end":15535.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15537.34971875,"end":15541.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15541.31534375,"end":15543.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15543.57659375,"end":15545.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15546.074093750001,"end":15547.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15548.48721875,"end":15548.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15549.11159375,"end":15552.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15553.22909375,"end":15556.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15556.722218750001,"end":15560.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15561.379718750002,"end":15561.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15561.86909375,"end":15564.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15565.125968750002,"end":15568.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15568.534718750001,"end":15571.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15572.11221875,"end":15577.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15578.052218750003,"end":15582.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15582.304718750001,"end":15587.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15588.160343750002,"end":15591.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15591.855968750002,"end":15600.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15600.715343750002,"end":15601.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15601.609718750002,"end":15607.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15609.794093750003,"end":15611.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15611.751593750003,"end":15616.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15616.695968750002,"end":15620.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15620.40846875,"end":15622.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15622.99034375,"end":15629.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15630.297218750002,"end":15636.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15637.23284375,"end":15638.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15639.156593750002,"end":15642.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15643.375343750002,"end":15645.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15646.36221875,"end":15656.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15656.554718750001,"end":15662.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15662.325968750003,"end":15667.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15668.384093750003,"end":15673.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15673.649093750002,"end":15677.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15678.120968750001,"end":15680.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15683.993468750003,"end":15684.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15685.191593750002,"end":15685.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15686.27159375,"end":15689.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15690.11909375,"end":15694.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15695.265968750002,"end":15701.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15703.652843750002,"end":15704.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15705.00284375,"end":15707.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15707.247218750003,"end":15708.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15708.765968750002,"end":15711.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15712.309718750003,"end":15716.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15716.66346875,"end":15720.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15721.219718750002,"end":15730.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15730.26471875,"end":15731.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15732.52596875,"end":15733.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15734.01096875,"end":15740.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15740.76096875,"end":15742.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15742.735343750002,"end":15745.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15746.279093750003,"end":15749.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15749.468468750001,"end":15752.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15752.82659375,"end":15755.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15757.382843750001,"end":15758.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15759.137843750003,"end":15760.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15760.808468750001,"end":15762.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15763.677218750003,"end":15766.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15767.64284375,"end":15767.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15768.250343750002,"end":15769.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15770.055968750003,"end":15775.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15775.40534375,"end":15778.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15778.66221875,"end":15780.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15781.109093750001,"end":15784.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15785.04096875,"end":15789.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15790.019093750001,"end":15794.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15794.69346875,"end":15796.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15796.262843750003,"end":15798.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15798.675968750002,"end":15803.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15803.67096875,"end":15805.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15806.269718750002,"end":15809.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15810.184718750003,"end":15812.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15813.15471875,"end":15816.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15817.086593750002,"end":15821.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15822.18284375,"end":15822.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15823.44846875,"end":15826.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15829.55721875,"end":15831.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15832.105343750001,"end":15834.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15834.56909375,"end":15835.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15835.598468750002,"end":15838.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15838.247843750003,"end":15840.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15841.082843750002,"end":15842.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15843.32721875,"end":15846.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15848.052218750003,"end":15852.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15853.165343750003,"end":15855.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15856.23659375,"end":15859.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15859.999718750001,"end":15864.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15865.51784375,"end":15870.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15870.37784375,"end":15874.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15874.984718750002,"end":15877.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15878.089718750001,"end":15880.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15881.29596875,"end":15883.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15883.962218750003,"end":15885.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15886.24034375,"end":15887.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15887.657843750003,"end":15889.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15890.57721875,"end":15895.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15895.757843750001,"end":15897.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15898.22159375,"end":15902.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15902.33909375,"end":15905.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15905.832218750002,"end":15907.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15908.61659375,"end":15910.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15911.14784375,"end":15913.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15914.489093750002,"end":15918.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15918.657218750002,"end":15924.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15924.816593750002,"end":15926.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15926.36909375,"end":15931.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15931.81971875,"end":15934.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15935.380343750003,"end":15939.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15940.122218750003,"end":15944.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15945.555968750003,"end":15949.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15949.69034375,"end":15951.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15952.17096875,"end":15954.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15954.617843750002,"end":15957.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15957.80721875,"end":15959.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15959.562218750001,"end":15963.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15963.797843750002,"end":15967.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15968.235968750003,"end":15973.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15973.720343750003,"end":15976.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15978.124718750001,"end":15979.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15980.95971875,"end":15983.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15983.71034375,"end":15986.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15987.456593750001,"end":15988.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15989.34659375,"end":15993.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15994.324718750002,"end":15998.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15999.404093750003,"end":16000.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16001.68221875,"end":16003.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16003.487843750001,"end":16010.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16010.929718750001,"end":16013.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16015.789718750002,"end":16018.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16019.14784375,"end":16022.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16023.434093750002,"end":16024.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16025.138468750003,"end":16029.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16029.812843750002,"end":16031.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16031.466593750003,"end":16034.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16035.195968750002,"end":16037.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16037.406593750002,"end":16039.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16040.17409375,"end":16043.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16044.274718750003,"end":16046.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16048.375343750002,"end":16050.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16050.501593750003,"end":16055.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16055.73284375,"end":16058.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16058.972843750002,"end":16060.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16060.879718750002,"end":16063.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16063.664093750001,"end":16065.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16065.38534375,"end":16068.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16068.524093750002,"end":16071.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16071.56159375,"end":16073.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16074.177218750003,"end":16076.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16077.012218750002,"end":16080.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16080.690968750001,"end":16082.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16083.15471875,"end":16087.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16087.94721875,"end":16091.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16091.81159375,"end":16093.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16094.325968750003,"end":16095.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16095.844718750002,"end":16098.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16099.60784375,"end":16103.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16104.872843750003,"end":16108.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16109.344718750002,"end":16113.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16113.462218750003,"end":16117.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16117.86659375,"end":16119.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16122.38909375,"end":16127.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16128.210968750001,"end":16130.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16131.552218750003,"end":16133.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16133.560343750003,"end":16136.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16136.95221875,"end":16138.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16139.044718750003,"end":16142.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16142.622218750003,"end":16143.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16144.292843750001,"end":16147.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16147.887218750002,"end":16149.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16150.435343750003,"end":16153.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16153.422218750002,"end":16155.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16155.362843750001,"end":16158.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16158.704093750002,"end":16161.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16162.011593750001,"end":16164.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16165.335968750001,"end":16168.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16169.21721875,"end":16172.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16173.452843750001,"end":16177.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16178.042843750001,"end":16179.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16180.55721875,"end":16183.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16183.93221875,"end":16189.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16189.51784375,"end":16193.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16193.247218750003,"end":16199.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16200.199718750002,"end":16202.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16202.86596875,"end":16205.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16205.97096875,"end":16208.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16208.755343750003,"end":16211.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16212.41721875,"end":16218.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16219.285343750002,"end":16222.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16223.200343750003,"end":16224.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16224.95534375,"end":16228.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16229.039093750001,"end":16230.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16230.422843750002,"end":16231.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16232.751593750003,"end":16235.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16235.468468750001,"end":16237.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16237.814093750003,"end":16240.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16240.598468750002,"end":16244.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16244.513468750003,"end":16250.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16251.195968750002,"end":16253.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16253.575343750003,"end":16255.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16256.24159375,"end":16256.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16258.18221875,"end":16259.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16259.700968750003,"end":16263.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16264.29096875,"end":16266.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16267.497218750003,"end":16273.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16273.96034375,"end":16274.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16275.10784375,"end":16280.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16281.33471875,"end":16283.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16284.372218750003,"end":16286.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16287.173468750003,"end":16288.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16289.02971875,"end":16292.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16292.691593750002,"end":16294.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16294.800968750002,"end":16297.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16298.024093750002,"end":16301.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16302.141593750002,"end":16304.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16305.11159375,"end":16309.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16310.005343750003,"end":16313.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16313.684093750002,"end":16315.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16315.33784375,"end":16319.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16319.40471875,"end":16321.345343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16321.68284375,"end":16324.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16325.378468750001,"end":16331.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16331.655968750001,"end":16332.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16333.107218750003,"end":16335.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16336.904093750003,"end":16343.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16344.44721875,"end":16354.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16355.43284375,"end":16357.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16357.89659375,"end":16362.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16362.638468750003,"end":16365.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16365.642218750003,"end":16366.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16366.97534375,"end":16372.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16373.607218750003,"end":16387.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16387.562843749998,"end":16393.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16394.63346875,"end":16400.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16400.89409375,"end":16407.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16407.779093750003,"end":16428.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16428.450968750003,"end":16433.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16433.34471875,"end":16436.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16436.71971875,"end":16440.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16441.79909375,"end":16466.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16467.12846875,"end":16468.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16469.10284375,"end":16471.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16471.785968750002,"end":16472.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16472.83221875,"end":16473.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16473.507218749997,"end":16476.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16476.460343749997,"end":16493.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16493.622218750003,"end":16497.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16497.57096875,"end":16522.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16523.389718749997,"end":16529.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16530.257843749998,"end":16532.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16533.22784375,"end":16535.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16536.19784375,"end":16556.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16557.038468749997,"end":16563.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16563.94034375,"end":16566.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16566.809093750002,"end":16573.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16573.795343750004,"end":16575.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16575.280343749997,"end":16576.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16576.71471875,"end":16601.436593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16602.31409375,"end":16605.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16605.30096875,"end":16611.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16611.527843750002,"end":16614.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16614.835343749997,"end":16616.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16617.147218750004,"end":16618.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16619.442218750002,"end":16621.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16622.05784375,"end":16622.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16623.18846875,"end":16623.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16623.677843750003,"end":16624.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16625.567843750003,"end":16627.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16627.457843750002,"end":16628.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16628.67284375,"end":16630.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16631.710343749997,"end":16634.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16634.39346875,"end":16637.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16637.66721875,"end":16639.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16641.092843749997,"end":16645.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16646.42534375,"end":16649.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16650.12096875,"end":16654.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16654.390343749998,"end":16654.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16655.14971875,"end":16663.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16664.00909375,"end":16666.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16666.97909375,"end":16671.045968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16671.95721875,"end":16677.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16678.082843750002,"end":16679.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16680.04034375,"end":16706.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16707.107843750004,"end":16712.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16713.030968749998,"end":16724.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16725.349718750003,"end":16747.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16748.147843749997,"end":16754.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16755.302843750003,"end":16768.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16768.887218750002,"end":16801.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16801.489718750003,"end":16811.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16811.44596875,"end":16817.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16818.41534375,"end":16824.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16825.553468750004,"end":16834.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16834.632218749997,"end":16837.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16837.568468750003,"end":16842.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16842.546593749998,"end":16868.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16869.006593750004,"end":16874.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16874.96346875,"end":16886.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16887.450968750003,"end":16902.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16902.672218749998,"end":16907.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16908.359093749998,"end":16920.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16921.16721875,"end":16928.811593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16929.50346875,"end":16931.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16931.47784375,"end":16932.608468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16933.452218749997,"end":16937.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16938.177218750003,"end":16958.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16958.79846875,"end":16968.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16971.184718750003,"end":16972.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16973.412218750003,"end":16974.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16974.458468750003,"end":16977.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16977.951593750004,"end":16984.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16985.224718750003,"end":16990.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16991.147843749997,"end":16999.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16999.29846875,"end":17005.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17005.575968750003,"end":17010.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17011.00971875,"end":17016.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17017.33784375,"end":17022.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17023.294718750003,"end":17030.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17031.344093749998,"end":17037.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17038.499093749997,"end":17042.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17043.39284375,"end":17047.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17048.084093750003,"end":17051.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17052.23534375,"end":17058.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17057.11221875,"end":17057.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17058.968468749998,"end":17076.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17076.484718749998,"end":17086.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17086.980968750002,"end":17093.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17094.54096875,"end":17101.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17101.240343750003,"end":17104.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17104.64909375,"end":17112.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17113.154093750003,"end":17119.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17119.937843749998,"end":17126.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17127.66659375,"end":17137.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17138.09534375,"end":17143.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17144.389718749997,"end":17148.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17148.64221875,"end":17150.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17150.53221875,"end":17151.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17151.69659375,"end":17155.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17156.26971875,"end":17167.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17168.639093750004,"end":17171.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17172.26721875,"end":17172.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17172.840968750003,"end":17177.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17178.59534375,"end":17199.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17200.41471875,"end":17201.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17201.91659375,"end":17209.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17209.577843749998,"end":17227.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17227.63409375,"end":17233.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17234.73846875,"end":17276.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17277.685343750003,"end":17283.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17283.94596875,"end":17287.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17288.114093750002,"end":17294.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17295.302843750003,"end":17299.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17300.19659375,"end":17303.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17304.31409375,"end":17311.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17311.334093750003,"end":17316.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17316.818468750003,"end":17342.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17343.092843749997,"end":17348.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17349.302843750003,"end":17360.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17360.828468749998,"end":17366.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17367.19034375,"end":17374.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17375.374718749998,"end":17376.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17376.859718749998,"end":17394.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17395.084718750004,"end":17403.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17403.89346875,"end":17405.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17406.42471875,"end":17412.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17413.19159375,"end":17418.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17419.90784375,"end":17428.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17428.54784375,"end":17449.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17449.87784375,"end":17455.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17455.24409375,"end":17462.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17463.614093750002,"end":17470.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17471.022218750004,"end":17480.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17480.89409375,"end":17499.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17499.794093750003,"end":17506.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17506.982843750004,"end":17515.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17515.87596875,"end":17522.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17523.40221875,"end":17527.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17527.26659375,"end":17529.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17529.983468749997,"end":17559.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17560.51034375,"end":17566.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17567.86784375,"end":17599.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17599.997843750003,"end":17606.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17606.71409375,"end":17608.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17608.72221875,"end":17610.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17610.81471875,"end":17614.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17615.33721875,"end":17617.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17618.20596875,"end":17621.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17622.036593750003,"end":17624.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17625.39471875,"end":17632.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17632.65096875,"end":17637.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17638.405343749997,"end":17648.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17649.239093750002,"end":17658.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17659.397843749997,"end":17666.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17666.687843749998,"end":17669.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17669.826593750004,"end":17671.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17671.716593750003,"end":17677.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17679.090968750003,"end":17683.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17683.59659375,"end":17688.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17688.97971875,"end":17693.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17694.278468750003,"end":17700.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17700.539093749998,"end":17703.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17704.319093750004,"end":17707.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17707.457843750002,"end":17712.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17713.44846875,"end":17714.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17715.287843750004,"end":17715.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17715.96284375,"end":17718.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17719.793468750002,"end":17725.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17725.78409375,"end":17728.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17728.889093750004,"end":17730.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17731.26846875,"end":17737.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17738.74409375,"end":17742.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17742.42284375,"end":17743.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17743.739093750002,"end":17744.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17745.05534375,"end":17747.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17748.480968750002,"end":17753.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17753.661593750003,"end":17756.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17758.015343749998,"end":17763.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17765.153468750003,"end":17766.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17766.773468749998,"end":17772.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17772.49409375,"end":17773.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17774.873468750004,"end":17778.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17778.687218749998,"end":17782.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17783.58096875,"end":17788.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17788.913468749997,"end":17790.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17791.005968750003,"end":17792.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17792.490968750004,"end":17793.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17793.857843750004,"end":17798.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17799.139718749997,"end":17799.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17799.949718750002,"end":17803.358468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17803.59471875,"end":17806.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17806.530968749998,"end":17807.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17807.779718750004,"end":17812.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17812.35284375,"end":17814.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17815.08659375,"end":17816.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17816.301593750002,"end":17818.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17819.254718750002,"end":17823.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17824.09784375,"end":17825.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17826.139718749997,"end":17827.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17829.00846875,"end":17830.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17831.185343750003,"end":17834.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17835.083468750003,"end":17837.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17838.08721875,"end":17839.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17840.12909375,"end":17842.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17843.014718749997,"end":17844.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17845.15784375,"end":17847.554093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17847.857843750004,"end":17851.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17851.975343750004,"end":17856.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17856.497843750003,"end":17857.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17858.37096875,"end":17859.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17860.716593750003,"end":17862.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17863.551593750002,"end":17865.694718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17866.36971875,"end":17868.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17869.592843749997,"end":17874.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17874.655343749997,"end":17877.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17878.874093749997,"end":17879.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17880.004718750002,"end":17882.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17882.654093750003,"end":17884.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17884.84784375,"end":17888.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17888.442218750002,"end":17895.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17896.54221875,"end":17897.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17897.453468749998,"end":17898.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17899.07346875,"end":17899.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17900.153468750003,"end":17903.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17904.35534375,"end":17912.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17912.96159375,"end":17916.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17918.14221875,"end":17919.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17920.35284375,"end":17924.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17924.520968750003,"end":17927.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17927.777843750002,"end":17934.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17935.101593749998,"end":17936.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17936.890343749998,"end":17937.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17938.459718750004,"end":17941.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17941.36221875,"end":17949.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17950.913468749997,"end":17952.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17952.51659375,"end":17954.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17954.23784375,"end":17961.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17962.084718750004,"end":17966.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17967.19784375,"end":17968.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17968.78409375,"end":17969.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17970.15096875,"end":17974.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17974.79159375,"end":17976.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17976.630968750003,"end":17979.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17979.61784375,"end":17983.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17983.73534375,"end":17985.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17985.97971875,"end":17991.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17991.717218750004,"end":17996.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17997.04971875,"end":17998.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17998.872218750003,"end":18002.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18002.922218749998,"end":18011.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18011.629718750002,"end":18013.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18013.755968750003,"end":18018.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18019.00409375,"end":18020.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18021.012218750002,"end":18025.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18026.125343749998,"end":18028.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18028.656593749998,"end":18030.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18030.68159375,"end":18038.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18039.405968749998,"end":18041.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18042.240968750004,"end":18043.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18043.489718750003,"end":18045.194093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18045.75096875,"end":18046.999718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18048.07971875,"end":18049.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18049.88534375,"end":18050.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18050.62784375,"end":18052.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18053.05784375,"end":18054.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18055.319093750004,"end":18059.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18059.757218749997,"end":18061.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18061.849718750003,"end":18065.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18065.562218749998,"end":18069.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18070.05096875,"end":18072.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18073.49346875,"end":18074.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18074.37096875,"end":18077.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18077.560343750003,"end":18080.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18080.395343750002,"end":18084.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18085.390343749998,"end":18091.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18091.66784375,"end":18093.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18093.625343749998,"end":18095.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18096.49409375,"end":18099.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18099.700343750003,"end":18101.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18102.21471875,"end":18105.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18105.522218750004,"end":18106.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18107.56409375,"end":18108.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18109.859093749998,"end":18110.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18110.43284375,"end":18111.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18111.647843749997,"end":18114.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18115.07346875,"end":18116.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18116.997218750003,"end":18117.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18117.739718750003,"end":18121.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18121.857218750003,"end":18124.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18125.991593749997,"end":18129.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18130.632218749997,"end":18133.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18134.24346875,"end":18137.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18137.71971875,"end":18139.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18140.200343750003,"end":18144.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18144.942218750002,"end":18148.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18148.317218750002,"end":18151.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18151.64159375,"end":18152.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18152.58659375,"end":18155.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18155.809718750003,"end":18157.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18157.90221875,"end":18160.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18160.669718750003,"end":18162.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18163.335968749998,"end":18166.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18166.896593750003,"end":18172.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18172.819718749997,"end":18175.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18175.975343750004,"end":18180.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18180.86909375,"end":18182.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18182.97846875,"end":18185.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18186.45471875,"end":18190.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18191.787218750003,"end":18199.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18199.482218750003,"end":18202.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18203.414093749998,"end":18205.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18206.06346875,"end":18208.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18208.898468749998,"end":18212.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18212.42534375,"end":18216.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18217.87596875,"end":18220.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18220.86284375,"end":18224.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18225.26721875,"end":18227.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18228.35534375,"end":18230.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18231.17346875,"end":18233.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18234.480968750002,"end":18237.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18238.24409375,"end":18239.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18239.84721875,"end":18243.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18243.61034375,"end":18247.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18248.639093750004,"end":18253.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18253.701593750004,"end":18257.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18257.835968749998,"end":18258.983468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18260.451593750004,"end":18264.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18264.974093750003,"end":18267.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18267.79221875,"end":18269.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18269.78346875,"end":18278.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18278.895968750003,"end":18282.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18282.67596875,"end":18284.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18285.19034375,"end":18288.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18289.763468750003,"end":18293.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18294.218468749998,"end":18295.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18296.66534375,"end":18300.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18301.30596875,"end":18302.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18304.022843749997,"end":18308.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18309.03471875,"end":18310.772843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18310.975343750004,"end":18312.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18313.65846875,"end":18317.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18317.742218749998,"end":18321.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18321.809093750002,"end":18327.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18328.44096875,"end":18332.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18332.490968750004,"end":18333.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18333.99284375,"end":18339.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18340.844093749998,"end":18345.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18346.80096875,"end":18351.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18352.25159375,"end":18356.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18356.858468749997,"end":18361.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18364.09784375,"end":18365.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18366.27471875,"end":18367.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18368.09721875,"end":18369.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18370.459718750004,"end":18371.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18372.771593750003,"end":18374.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18374.61096875,"end":18377.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18378.12096875,"end":18382.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18384.12846875,"end":18386.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18386.84534375,"end":18390.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18390.94596875,"end":18392.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18392.95409375,"end":18399.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18399.164093749998,"end":18400.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18401.037218750003,"end":18403.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18404.192843750003,"end":18406.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18407.33159375,"end":18410.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18410.18346875,"end":18411.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18412.630343750003,"end":18415.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18415.937843749998,"end":18419.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18420.460343749997,"end":18421.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18422.249093749997,"end":18427.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18428.20596875,"end":18431.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18431.429093749997,"end":18434.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18434.804093749997,"end":18436.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18437.47034375,"end":18441.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18441.942218750002,"end":18443.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18443.865968750004,"end":18445.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18446.00909375,"end":18447.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18447.679718749998,"end":18448.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18449.333468750003,"end":18454.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18455.037218750003,"end":18457.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18457.652843750002,"end":18459.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18461.53409375,"end":18464.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18465.41534375,"end":18471.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18472.18221875,"end":18474.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18474.83159375,"end":18477.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18477.480968750002,"end":18479.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18480.28221875,"end":18483.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18484.281593749998,"end":18487.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18487.99409375,"end":18491.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18491.942843750003,"end":18494.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18495.250343749998,"end":18496.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18497.325968750003,"end":18500.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18500.819093750004,"end":18505.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18505.29096875,"end":18507.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18508.66596875,"end":18513.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18514.302218750003,"end":18515.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18515.73659375,"end":18517.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18519.85409375,"end":18526.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18526.70534375,"end":18527.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18528.240968750004,"end":18530.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18531.36284375,"end":18534.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18534.61971875,"end":18537.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18538.045343750004,"end":18540.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18540.981593750003,"end":18543.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18543.58034375,"end":18545.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18545.35221875,"end":18545.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18546.31409375,"end":18547.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18548.693468750003,"end":18553.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18554.04284375,"end":18555.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18556.45596875,"end":18562.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18563.83034375,"end":18567.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18567.61034375,"end":18568.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18568.825343750003,"end":18569.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18571.20471875,"end":18572.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18572.28471875,"end":18574.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18575.372843750003,"end":18577.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18578.241593749997,"end":18579.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18580.48596875,"end":18584.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18585.44721875,"end":18589.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18589.530968749998,"end":18590.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18591.77534375,"end":18593.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18594.171593749998,"end":18598.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18598.20471875,"end":18600.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18600.76971875,"end":18603.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18604.819718749997,"end":18606.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18607.536593750003,"end":18614.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18614.87721875,"end":18615.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18616.193468750003,"end":18620.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18620.935343750003,"end":18624.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18624.529718750004,"end":18625.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18626.77409375,"end":18631.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18632.039093749998,"end":18633.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18634.030343749997,"end":18638.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18639.312218749998,"end":18640.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18641.03346875,"end":18642.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18643.109093749998,"end":18644.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18644.40846875,"end":18651.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18653.014718749997,"end":18662.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18666.00846875,"end":18674.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18674.226593749998,"end":18679.66034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1677.905,"end":1696.618,"text":"報告聯席會出席委員23人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會。現在開會首先介紹到場委員及應邀列席官員。那我們介紹官員包括有教育部曾英耀部長歡迎您。"},{"start":1697.97,"end":1712.342,"text":"以及政務次長張亮萬堅次長歡迎您以及是行政院人事行政總署李秉舟副人事長歡迎您好那其餘我們就請參照名單那並列入公報記錄"},{"start":1718.382,"end":1739.594,"text":"運動部組織法草案、運動部全民運動署組織法草案、運動部產業發展中心設置條例草案、國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案、國家運動科學中心設置條例部門條文修正草案、教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案等案。"},{"start":1743.117,"end":1771.466,"text":"那現在進行提案說明及機關報告先進行提案說明先請機關代表對不起我們先請機關代表報告發言時間5分鐘有請教育部政部長報告請主席各位委員"},{"start":1772.608,"end":1798.222,"text":"女士先生大家早安大家好今日本人應邀列席就行政院函函請審議運動部組織法草案等法案及審查多位委員所提版本報告僅向各位委員長期對於運動事務關心與支持表示衷心的謝誠並請各位委員不吝指教僅說明如下"},{"start":1799.266,"end":1813.858,"text":"本部的體育署在102年成立以來已超過10年達成階段性的一個目標。面對國際運動發展潮流、台灣社經情勢變化以及人民健康福祉的發展,的確是到了應該調整組織結構的一個最佳時機。"},{"start":1817.301,"end":1819.302,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．"},{"start":1837.914,"end":1852.289,"text":"發展的影響之下已成為民眾生活中的一部分。我國體育預算已在近年來大幅倍增。學著場館設施的普及化,高齡人口占比逐漸提高。國人對於觀賞運動、參與運動越來越重視。"},{"start":1857.712,"end":1884.932,"text":"運動不僅是學校教育的一環更是自我實現追求卓越讓世界看見台灣的一個方式。為實現其實為實現耐總統解釋的一個願景以運動壯大台灣的政策本部從一一三年五月啟動研擬作業六月到七月辦理了市場論壇廣收各界建言行政院也在八月十五日"},{"start":1885.652,"end":1910.824,"text":"成立體育運動發展部籌備小組及諮詢小組分別由公民署長政府院長擔任召集人在八到十月總共召開六次的一個會議進行組織法案之研議及聽取諮詢委員的建言進而嚴定新部會組織願景目標核心價值及政策等方向經過緊密"},{"start":1916.57,"end":1919.894,"text":"緊鑼密鼓的籌備,將成立嶄新的專責機關運動部統籌相關業務,以打造一個運動平權、社會包容及永續發展的國家,並強化台灣的國際參與及影響力。」"},{"start":1934.008,"end":1944.392,"text":"未來的運動部組織架構採取新的一個思維方式規劃一部一署三中心推動全國運動業務下設全民運動署辦理全民運動發展等業務令增設國家運動產業發展中心促進運動產業發展並透過國家運動訓練中心與國家運動科學中心的合作進行競技運動人才培育及運動科學研究與應用"},{"start":1961.69,"end":1984.443,"text":"其次為因應全新的一個機關運動部的一個成立行政院與考試院會嫌中央行政機關組織基本法第29條及第39條條文修正草案並提出行政院組織法第三條條文修正草案運動部組織法草案運動部全民運動組織法草案國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案國家運動中心"},{"start":1990.926,"end":2007.358,"text":"運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案、國家運動科學中心設置條例部份條文修正草案、教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條修正條文修正草案等八項法案含請立法院審議。至於委員所擬具"},{"start":2012.103,"end":2029.957,"text":"擬具運動部組織法及教育部組織法等相關法案本部檢要說明如下,詳細意見請參閱書面報告。一、運動部組織法草案委員洪孟楷等19人、楊瓊瓔等21人、民眾、台灣民眾黨、中嘉賓、"},{"start":2032.506,"end":2050.112,"text":"委員等16人羅廷偉等16人徐富奎等17人范瑩等16人吳佩奕等16人及林益錦等19人即9項提案本部予以尊重建議並同行政院提案版本審議。"},{"start":2052.25,"end":2078.766,"text":"有關運動部全民運動組織法草案委員羅廷維等16人、吳佩儀等21人、林益錦等19人及三等三項提案本部予以尊重建議並同行政院提案版審議至於國家運動產業中心設置條例草案委員吳佩儀21人及林益錦19人及兩項提案本部予以尊重建議並同行政院提案"},{"start":2079.787,"end":2099.715,"text":"版本審議有關國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案委員吳佩儀林益錦等本部予以尊重並同等19人等兩項的一個提案本部予以尊重建議並同行政院版"},{"start":2103.236,"end":2114.466,"text":"審議國家運動科學中心部門條文修正草案委員吳珮義等21人擬19人等兩項提案本部予以尊重建議並同行政院"},{"start":2116.448,"end":2135.768,"text":"提案版本審議、教育部組織法修正草案、委員羅廷偉等17人、陳清輝等18人、羅廷偉等17人、吳佩儀等21人及林益勤等19人。繼五項提案本部予以尊重,建議並同行政院提案版本審議。"},{"start":2137.169,"end":2157.216,"text":"發展部組織法草案 為落實總統政見以運動壯大台灣的願景,所要成立全新的中央二級運動主管機關以新思維建構完整運動行政體系,才能大力執行並推動提倡全民運動,增進國民健康,強化選手培育及權益保障,促進經濟專業發展,振興運動產業,促進幸福經濟,"},{"start":2161.818,"end":2182.274,"text":"及推展國際事務世界看見台灣等四大目標運動部之成立以獲各界高度共識並有高度期待本次相關組織法及配套法案的提出與修正,上其委員能鼎力支持,使一部一署三中心組織法及設置條例草案能順利完成立法。"},{"start":2184.059,"end":2206.945,"text":"也期以民一一四年下半年運動部正式揭牌讓台灣的運動發展邁向新的里程碑為國人創造無限的可能以上報告進行各位委員會議指導謝謝好謝謝鄭部長那另外有提出書面報機關包括權敘部以及數位發展部請問雷司長有沒有口頭補充"},{"start":2209.152,"end":2229.689,"text":"那請問訴發部陳法制專門委員有沒有補充沒有補充好那麼這些書面內容列入公報記錄接下來我們接續進行提案說明那麼時間三分鐘依到場先後順序先邀請提案人羅委員庭委進行說明"},{"start":2237.049,"end":2239.391,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案、體育暨運動發展部、全民運動署"},{"start":2266.728,"end":2282.783,"text":"組織法草案、以及教育部組織法第2條、第5條、第9條的修正草案等三案欲提升教育部體育署之位皆單獨設部,成為行政院所屬中央二級機關以解決上述我所提到的一個問題。國內若能將體育運動來把它視為教育"},{"start":2288.743,"end":2314.331,"text":"體系的一環。我想將無法反映國內外運動發展的現況,意味能有效推動國際運動事務的一個情勢。未來我們更希望我們運動部如果成立以後,能夠更加重視電競以及冷門的賽事,相關的選手權益,運動比賽。另外今日一排審本席於第一會期,我第一個提案"},{"start":2315.387,"end":2344.269,"text":"的一個教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案培養學生具有思辨和邏輯能力是國家富強之根基亦是國家教育政策未來的一個方向哲學是所有科學之母哲學教育目的在於培養學生具有獨立思考表達想像創造等能力並將哲學教育從小紮根納入國家教育體制裡所以我倡議"},{"start":2345.47,"end":2364.006,"text":"責學教育從小學開始學習思辨邏輯能力今天都一起排審也非常感謝有這個機會我們一起為孩子來努力謝謝好謝謝羅委員接下來請提案人紅委員孟楷進行提案說明時間3分鐘請"},{"start":2372.423,"end":2395.821,"text":"今天晚上十二強正式中華隊要出賽中華隊也是讓我們很值得期待我們也希望是說能夠有獲得好成績所以等一下我在二樓有準備那個驅寒的薑母茶我們希望今天晚上大家都驅寒成功一樣感謝主席的一個排審今天能夠排定運動發展部相關的這個組織條例我覺得非常的"},{"start":2396.929,"end":2417.597,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 行委因為2020年孟楷進入到立法院之後就一直認為我們應該要把運動發展的項目列為國立的重要指標也應該要讓他來升格變成一個部會才能夠真真正正的重視以及帶動整體的產業以及人才培訓國際交流跟永續樂活的發展"},{"start":2420.091,"end":2448.352,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 三大黨的總統候選人都有一樣的主張跟政策都希望能夠讓運動發展部能夠來成立因此現在這是一個正確的方向這是一個對的道路我們共同坐在這邊要來做相關的討論就是希望趕快讓運動發展部能夠早日落實並且能夠真真正正做到我們期待的一個項目Do the right thing接下來我們要Do the thing right"},{"start":2449.246,"end":2472.46,"text":"不過幾個部分我想看到我們的教育部以及今天七個部會所提出來的這個報告我覺得首先我要先給予肯定就是當時我在推動運動發展部的時候有四大的核心價值分別是人才培育、國際交流、產業發展、樂活永續恰恰好跟我們這一次報告裡面所提出來的四大目標不謀而合"},{"start":2473.28,"end":2479.405,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一）行政院函擬具:「運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一．體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．"},{"start":2491.135,"end":2513.503,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 都應該要做人才的永續培育,第二國際的交流在國際上的運動發展其實他的交流反而會是我們中華民國能夠真的在國際現實上面走出台灣走向世界的重要指標以及產業的發展大家看到運動的產業其實是非常的龐大"},{"start":2513.979,"end":2532.139,"text":"甚至包含到更廣泛的電競以及更廣泛的職業運動等等的電運動的產業可說是五花八門也是現在最龐大的市場我們絕對不能缺席還有最後永續樂活我們也希望現在一直在推動的所謂壯世代的一個方向其實從"},{"start":2533.894,"end":2535.655,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":2555.68,"end":2576.668,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案 共識給納入並且真真正正要求不是只是體育署升格為運動發展部而是真真正正變成是一個全新的部會能夠帶動台灣整體的運動發展以上謝謝謝謝接下來有請提案人楊委員瓊瓊進行提案說明時間3分鐘"},{"start":2586.095,"end":2587.936,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":2615.469,"end":2619.032,"text":"體育的機關顯示成立專責單位負責推廣整個全民的運動、健全運動產業的發展以及培育體育人才等工作當然是刻不容緩。現行將體育運動事務歸列在教育體系,它已經沒有辦法對於整個運動發展的現況"},{"start":2644.392,"end":2670.694,"text":"所需的推動人力以及資源的部組恐難以有效的來推動整個運動的事務,所以因此應該要提升教育部體育署的位階,成為行政院所屬中央的二級機關單位,才能夠有效的來發揮處理全球體育交流,體育的一個行銷,全民的體育,"},{"start":2671.294,"end":2676.755,"text":"體育產業以及福祉體育的經濟等。」這是非常重要。所以呢擬具了這個體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。我也敬請各位同仁以及政府部門大家一起好好來討論。我們希望能夠在明年正式落實我們的體育部的一個成立。"},{"start":2699.52,"end":2701.162,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一．一人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一．一人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一．一人擬具:「體育暨運動"},{"start":2716.476,"end":2733.794,"text":"職務列檢任第14等。」這是非常重要。在第4條裡頭本部也特別設置主任秘書。職務列檢任第13職等。這個是在基本的人事方面的一個布局。"},{"start":2734.415,"end":2734.976,"text":"合法運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":2749.875,"end":2753.796,"text":"聯繫及協調事項 才能夠達成整個在推動聯繫方面能夠更加的有這個位階而且能夠在協調方面更有這個效能。在第9項裡頭也就運動產業"},{"start":2767.001,"end":2773.906,"text":"運動產業的培植、輔導以及它的發展這項來講對於我們整個運動產業跟運動經濟是非常的重要所以我們希望我們好好討論希望能夠如實的在明年度來正式成立謝謝謝謝接下來有請提案人徐委員富奎進行提案說明時間3分鐘"},{"start":2799.405,"end":2823.163,"text":"謝謝主席我想我們運動力就是國力那台灣最近幾年透過這個黃金計畫培育出很好的一個運動的選手那在國際的一個賽事取得亮眼的成績透過他們讓世界認識了台灣但是運動不只有在我們的奧運賽場上面也在全國大大小小的運動會尤其屏東縣福原廣大"},{"start":2824.043,"end":2825.184,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":2837.339,"end":2839.802,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 運動全面均衡發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":2860.061,"end":2874.129,"text":"所以未來希望藉由成立一個運動產業發展署透過中央跟行政機關的一個產業發展配合數位部跟經濟部來做一個整體的一個規劃這是本席的一個意見謝謝好謝謝許委員接下來有請提案人台灣民眾黨黨團代表吳委員春成進行提案說明"},{"start":2891.572,"end":2891.753,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":2893.446,"end":2920.431,"text":"本席代表台灣民眾黨團提案說明建立社會環境及生活條件的提升國內運動人口的增加帶動運動產業的興起運動發展更加的多元化同時選手的表現也提升了我國國際的能見度運動事務在現代社會中扮演的角色越來越重要"},{"start":2921.571,"end":2950.026,"text":"過去體育署的單一走向的一個政策導致我國體育政策只專注在培養頂尖的國手但在時空背景的改變下運動風氣的增加還有國人對健康要求的不斷提升培養了優秀人才活絡運動產業促進國人對運動的興趣已是重中之重"},{"start":2951.551,"end":2971.213,"text":"競技運動全民化、全民運動產業化是推動組織整合重要的架構。前者強調運動推廣不能光是追求競技的成就。發展運動精緻它並強調基層運動的普及是重中之重。"},{"start":2971.954,"end":2979.504,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":2981.843,"end":3006.569,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 但在現行的架構下體育署的人力預算都非常的有限身為署也很難跟各部會的溝通發展運動產業牽涉到經濟財政及文化的層面所以若能將體育署升格為體育及運動發展部擴充資源注入民間的人才台灣的體育發展才有機會來發展新氣象"},{"start":3009.27,"end":3031.165,"text":"為了避免弱化決策的成績缺乏跨部會的統籌權力具有策略、政策性質卻常常無常設的法源依據的組織問題藉著提升教育部體育署的位階陳偉行政院所屬中央二級機關方人有效的發揮並處理國際的交流體育的行銷、全民的運動並扶持運動經濟及產業所以提"},{"start":3037.85,"end":3062.983,"text":"提出本黨的這個草案。敬請各位的支持。謝謝。謝謝。機關代表報告及提案說明已發言完畢。相關書面內容均列入公報記錄,現在開始詢答。由於今日系司法與法制、教育及文化兩委員會聯席,組成共計28位委員,詢答人數較多。本會委員詢答時間為6分鐘。"},{"start":3067.125,"end":3092.537,"text":"非本會委員詢答時間為3分鐘均不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記首先請登記第一位的紅委員孟楷發言主席謝謝麻煩請我們政部長有請政部長"},{"start":3098.487,"end":3098.747,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":3121.957,"end":3150.334,"text":"這應該是被鼓勵的因為這很人性的事情沒有問題嘛對不對因為上一次有講是說小國旗是可以帶路那如果說我們想說要帶這個比較等身高的這個國旗可以嗎我想那是都基本上我認為那應該是要被鼓勵非常好是那本期今天也會去看球我們也希望是說大家共同我也希望能夠把我們今天白日滿地紅國旗揮舞來為我們中華隊加油啊是好來再來"},{"start":3151.343,"end":3179.529,"text":"部長我想請教今天這個運動發展部的一個成立喔雖然大家也都期待其實剛剛聽到本席以及很多委員的講法都說大家是樂觀其成但是我們要真的能夠做到我們所謂的這個核心價值以及規劃所以第一個部分我們要先請教運動發展部如果說真的成立因為你現在已經壓時間了希望是今年明年年中下半年就可以掛牌對不對那地點會在哪邊"},{"start":3181.598,"end":3198.28,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案,您現在有想要的地點嗎?跟委員報告目前我們初步還是在這一個體育署的原這個原場地,豬人街,對不對?當然會另外再找地方有一個更適當的一個現在的場地不夠適當嗎?"},{"start":3200.134,"end":3214.487,"text":"因為我們現在看到啊就是說主管機關因為現在體育所大樓有很多的單項協會辦公室那主管機關現在講是說因為要升格因為要擴編所以已經有先發函給各單項協會要求非亞奧運項目協會要搬離體育大樓"},{"start":3217.009,"end":3217.309,"text":"發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":3247.329,"end":3248.07,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":3264.306,"end":3270.169,"text":"運動部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":3288.619,"end":3289.179,"text":"運動發展部落腳地點"},{"start":3317.304,"end":3325.226,"text":"行政院第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期"},{"start":3335.729,"end":3362.709,"text":"我想確實我們當然希望隨著未來的運動部的發展我們希望有一個更適當的一個空間所以現在討論了沒但是目前我們至少目前並還沒有這樣的一個規劃但是我們會希望能夠明年下半年就希望掛牌了我們現在還沒有想到落腳的地方在哪我們目前的場址還是以目前的主人街嘛是不是先來接牌本時要提醒喔是"},{"start":3363.129,"end":3371.596,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 最近在成立的這個相關的部會本期當然希望運動發展部可長可久但絕對不要重到像數位發展部的覆測"},{"start":3372.714,"end":3375.175,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":3398.595,"end":3421.191,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事宜,如果說校園裡面的操場、運動設施在白天上課的時間是教育部,但是下課時間會變成是運動部,那這樣子會不會讓大家覺得有點混淆?因為說實在話,如果說你用地點來做區分,可能民眾會比較有,或者說權責比較很劃分,否則四點以前,下課四點以前教育部的權責,四點以後運動部的權責。"},{"start":3424.613,"end":3448.165,"text":"公務員報告因為我們希望在未來就是一個全民運動我們也希望社區有許多的俱樂部開始所以在屬於專業的這一個部分當然學校提供的是一個運動的一個場域我們希望校園開放運動場所有的體育場館都能夠開放能夠真正落實讓社區的民眾能夠隨時要現在沒有運動發展部的時候就沒開放嗎"},{"start":3448.965,"end":3449.526,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":3468.767,"end":3469.849,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":3486.207,"end":3486.968,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 案"},{"start":3513.789,"end":3531.937,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 進入我們的公部門來為大眾服務。我們也希望能夠借重這些有經驗的這些所有的我們在行政法院或者在一個教育人員任用條例裡面相關的給予一些規範。所以未來會不會有看到金牌教練或金牌選手的條例。最後的部分我們不排斥"},{"start":3538.8,"end":3552.543,"text":"不排斥我們也希望就是真的一棒接一棒的鼓勵我們優秀的選手教練能夠持續的貢獻己藏為台灣的運動來打拼謝謝黃委員謝謝鄭部長接下來請黃委員國昌發言跟委員會說明因為今天聯席委員人數較多我們會叫嚴格來管制時間請委員把握謝謝謝謝主席麻有請部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":3572.352,"end":3594.901,"text":"委員好部長好時間的關係直接切入正題我們如果今天或者是在這個會期完成了二三讀了以後什麼時候正式運作我們依據是明年的這個七月明年七月OK升格以後的員工有多少人有400位有400位OK好升格以後的預算有多少"},{"start":3596.365,"end":3614.614,"text":"我目標現在逐步希望明年能夠再能夠達到200億明年能夠200億後年後年對不起後年能夠200億我們在努力後年能夠200億是好來我們以我們一個一個往下看喔對於啊"},{"start":3616.138,"end":3634.688,"text":"我們要去成立一個運動部基本上我們的立場是樂觀啟程但重點是什麼重點是在做這件事情的時候不能只有口號做這件事情的時候更不能浪費公帑做這件事情的時候嘴巴喊出來的口號跟實際的行動要配合"},{"start":3636.735,"end":3658.553,"text":"2025年預算編列將達200億這個是拱民新秘書長那個時候行政院在開記者會的時候他做的宣誓嘛原額400名然後也是您剛剛所做的但我們現在啊來看2025年你們預算實際今年編的到底多少錢今年編明年的預算多少錢"},{"start":3660.066,"end":3679.281,"text":"一百五十五億左右來你看一下數字啊我上面都幫你列出來了我沒有要考你的記憶啊加起來一百五十八億嘛那問題是左手邊啊行政院總預算案說明資料裡面體育經費有一百七十八億編在明年中間落差二十億編在哪個部會"},{"start":3680.919,"end":3704.474,"text":"跟委員報告在其他部會裡邊在其他部會其他部會的21在什麼地方會後可不可以一個禮拜之內書面會診給我可以可以嘛那第二個升格啊需要組織員額需要經費擴充實際上面怎麼編啊這件事情啊非常的重要所以我請部長啊看一下你們明年的預算員額"},{"start":3706.223,"end":3706.724,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":3722.135,"end":3739.875,"text":"你們實際上啊明年的人事費跟今年的人事費實際上面你如果加上明年要調薪的幅度的話幾乎是一模一樣啊代表你在預算額上面明年沒有要擴充啊那剛講那400人是從哪裡來?你預算編在哪裡?"},{"start":3742.386,"end":3742.806,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":3772.836,"end":3773.296,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":3787.509,"end":3811.544,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案件,是嗎?是不是請這個...報告委員在行政院的部分目前是暫時先多編列三億因應明年的運動部如果升格的話但是明年的預算還是以體育署的為主我們就一樣一樣講具體的嘛我連是非都列出來了嘛你們的預算原額還是134個沒有錯嘛沒有錯所以代表你明年可以用的人就不超過134個人嘛"},{"start":3815.128,"end":3815.829,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":3839.215,"end":3863.997,"text":"推動要有步驟嘛不是一個口號喊出來啊說我成立部啊有400個人實際從預算書上面來看根本就不可能嘛第二個事情是什麼你們明年的預算合計增加了20億我把所有的預算書看完了看完了以後我有個困惑啊你跟升格有關係的預算到底編在哪裡啊"},{"start":3867.024,"end":3891.672,"text":"剛剛我們已經確認了嘛就人的部分完全沒有變動嘛就134個人嘛那人的部分沒有變動那其他的部分我看有增加錢的要不然就是獎勵金要不然就出席國際會議訪外賓要不然就是全民運動與賽事環境計畫看起來就變成了是說體育署換了一個招牌"},{"start":3892.552,"end":3914.161,"text":"運動部組織法草案 案 案 但實際上的人員以明年來講,人員數是一樣,業務量也沒有擴充,實際上看編出來的經費也看不出來從署變成部除了一個招牌,除了署長變部長薪水領得比較多以外,看不出有什麼實際的差別"},{"start":3915.384,"end":3921.166,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,您們跟申閣有關係的預算編在哪裡?所以實際上面是會反映在2026年的預算嗎?在2025年都還看不出來嗎?好沒關係我們先確認了這件事情就好了。"},{"start":3941.55,"end":3961.516,"text":"我們的行政院說我們在編列預算的時候我們的立法院在通過相關的法律的時候要遵守財政紀律法這個你們應該都知道部長應該很清楚那我們升格部了以後我們的預算來源是哪裡請部長說明一下"},{"start":3963.174,"end":3976.721,"text":"因為財政紀律法如果啦真的要談財政紀律法的話他居住的不是只有立法機關啦還包括行政機關嘛從署變成部嘛算不算是大幅增加預算來請教部長"},{"start":3977.748,"end":3988.176,"text":"公務員報告如果我們順利在委員的支持我們順利升格我們行政會有公務預算有另外3億的公務預算來三億就夠了來明年的一個籌備明年的所有的籌備那當然我們就只有剛才署長特別提到隨時這個部的一個這一個發展我們在人員上我們當然不會因為我們考慮用人為材然後也專業"},{"start":4002.707,"end":4024.266,"text":"那個主席站起來了他有宣告今天要嚴格執行時間所以我問題非常的簡單我問題非常的簡單麻煩部長一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我們中央各級機關包括我們立法委員的法律案要增加政府的稅出的時候要具體指名彌補資金的來源"},{"start":4026.844,"end":4028.745,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":4067.389,"end":4071.371,"text":"組織我們是不是請部長有請正部長委員好部長好今天組織會嚴格執行時間只有6分鐘所以這個我們就只有挑重點問直短情長"},{"start":4089.578,"end":4111.872,"text":"這個因為怎麼設立運動部齁這個是我們賴總統當初所提的體育八大政見的第一條最重要的一條這是要設置運動部的齁那這八大政見裡面的最後一條是這個體育體育預算要突破200億這你剛剛有提說希望在後年能夠突破200億嘛齁那我們事實上"},{"start":4112.819,"end":4127.925,"text":"我們也看台灣體育組織的發展事實上從過去從二級機關、三級機關這樣子調整來調整去其實好幾次從1945年就設置國民體育委員會到1973年這都是三級組織1973年設教育部體育司然後到1997年成立到二級機關成立體育委員會到2013年政府組織改造之後又"},{"start":4141.335,"end":4142.737,"text":"合併教育部體育署 。"},{"start":4148.24,"end":4172.912,"text":"事實上不管過去在三級機關或二級機關事實上我們看到他的預算事實上我們國家的體育預算是運動預算是逐年一直在增加不管他是三級機關或二級機關事實上是逐年增加從1997年那時候整個體育預算差不多才10億到現在這個今年度的預算已經到這個137億那今年所編的明年度的預算到158億所以這個這個"},{"start":4177.827,"end":4203.401,"text":"未來體育運動部成立之後我相信這個在後年能夠編到兩百億沒有問題但是我比較關心的是今天這個我們所送來的最重要是我們今天所送來的這個組織這個運動部的組織法我們的草案這裡面有幾個問題我想在未來可能主條討論的時候他也會是比較大家焦點比較集中在討論的地方"},{"start":4204.502,"end":4220.976,"text":"那第一個就是我們在這個第8條齁這個組織條例第8條我們規定了這個有關本部所屬機關為這個因應運動發展多元禁用人才得依聘用人員條例"},{"start":4222.882,"end":4223.903,"text":"負責運動負責運動負責運動負責運動負責運動負責運動負責"},{"start":4252.705,"end":4278.318,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 一定有相當的衝擊。因為我們這一個運動部他所做的他不是只是一個體育發展我們還兼顧到運動平權包括兒少運動還有這個因為時間關係部長我跟你講事實上我們目前各相關機關用聘用人員聘用條例事實上不只是體育部我們這個國科會也有我們這個金管會也有速發部也有經濟部也有"},{"start":4280.419,"end":4299.384,"text":"但是我看他們的組織條例的條文他們的條文齁他們的組織法裡面齁他們都有運用這個聘用條例之外他們對於這個領域你專業人員的領域都有所規定他們對於原額每一個部都有規定說原額不得超過110人原額這個60至100人原額這個不得超過100人原額55人至86人之後我們"},{"start":4306.807,"end":4320.444,"text":"這個運動部的條例沒有緣額的限制也沒有領域的限制我們用一個運動相關領域就是意思是全部任何只要是有運動摸到一點邊他就可以用聘用條例這個"},{"start":4321.81,"end":4342.716,"text":"領域上沒有限制原額上沒有限制我認為這個是是要在未來我們進入主條之前我希望我們那個部裡面的謝謝委員提醒我想這我們用人為財用人專業然後有效率包括運動產業我知道啦但是我們其他組織沒有這樣子說組織法裡面用這麼寬鬆也沒有領域的限制也沒有這個這個原額的限制這個都沒有也許在主條討論我們再來看怎麼樣來"},{"start":4351.158,"end":4351.979,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":4367.213,"end":4381.438,"text":"運動這個體育班 基本上在這個人才的專業人才培育是由體育部但是在學校裡邊的體育教學是由教育部 那體育班呢 體育班也是"},{"start":4384.858,"end":4401.591,"text":"合成式運動自運動部因為他幾多專業上特殊人才上的培養是由運動部來規劃但是他實際在教學的進行是在由這個這個現在我們這樣子這樣子劃分未來其實還是會有很多問題啦你包括說他們這些"},{"start":4402.953,"end":4420.208,"text":"學生運動選手參加國際賽事之後的一些相關學業輔導,這些都...跟委員報告我們這樣一個規劃跟目前體育署跟教育部的...那這個時間我最後時間還有一點時間我就再問這個我覺得個人覺得很重要啦我們相關的今天我們送來的"},{"start":4421.309,"end":4443.536,"text":"只有這個運動部組織法草案有運動部這個全民運動署的組織法草案有國產中心的設置條例有這個國家運動中心設置條例修正法等等但是事實上我們盤點所有相關的行政命令相關的法規法規命令有許多的法規事實上都必須要配套修改我這樣隨便初步的google"},{"start":4446.132,"end":4446.732,"text":"運動部組織法草案 案 案"},{"start":4467.927,"end":4489.162,"text":"至少還有三個法規必須要修改啦這是國民體育法運動產業發展條例跟運動彩券發行條例這三個是必須要立法這個主管機關你若沒有配套立法未來這個主管機關都還是教育部體育署謝謝委員提醒這個你們要盡快的在這整個修法過程中一併"},{"start":4489.983,"end":4492.646,"text":"國民體育法、將運動產業發展條例、將運動彩券發行條例這三個法一併送入來修正了。請你三個月內把我剛剛所講的180幾條法規請你們三個月內把它盤點出來。"},{"start":4507.202,"end":4509.603,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 三 個月內提交本聯席委員會。謝謝曾部長。接下來有請萬昭薇美玲質詢。"},{"start":4541.429,"end":4542.009,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":4553.323,"end":4553.604,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":4572.544,"end":4573.465,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":4594.574,"end":4609.122,"text":"法國委員是好那關於運動部部長一職行政院有沒有爭取您的意願報報委員目前沒有目前沒有會不會很失望報告委員不會把階段性任務做好比較重要有沒有期待報告委員沒有期待沒有期待"},{"start":4609.542,"end":4609.922,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":4636.323,"end":4653.749,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件事宜,我們希望要有一個專業而又有熱情的人能夠來擔任這個部長,所以我想其實我們對鄭署長其實還蠻肯定的,因為畢竟在過去這麼流動率很高甚至於代理了很長一段的署長的期間,您來了以後算是有穩定,所以我想對您有期待也加油。"},{"start":4654.309,"end":4654.77,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 。"},{"start":4678.712,"end":4679.432,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":4698.241,"end":4699.081,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":4723.23,"end":4750.033,"text":"部長你講完以後我大概6分鐘就沒有了我想今天的重點是什麼今天的重點是其實運動相關產業發展你有沒有認為很重要運動產業發展重不重要非常重要但是既然你覺得非常重要但是我們看到我們國家運動產業發展中心我們是用中心這個位階我們來看到運動產業發展既然相當重要本來是提供幾個數字給您因為可能我覺得您並不是那麼熟悉"},{"start":4751.334,"end":4760.878,"text":"財政部統計近5年我國運動服務業的這個盈利這個加速持續在增加從107年的2280家逐年上升那麼到這個107年到110年間我們成長了14.5%也就是從2280家上升到了將近4000家那我們運動服務業的銷售額也是年年成長除了110年因為疫情影響的關係之外"},{"start":4777.065,"end":4777.405,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":4796.291,"end":4796.991,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":4826.517,"end":4852.914,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 行政法人 行政法人法第2條規定行政法人設立是所涉公權力的行使程度比較低那剛剛我們有提到其實我們在運動發展所涉及的這個高度公權力的行使恐怕都不是一個行政法人未接可以做到的所以我想這一點我希望部長再把本席的意見帶回去在開會的時候我們可以再把它提出來"},{"start":4854.835,"end":4880.285,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案的時間非常重要,剛才聽了半天本席,你現在我們這個體育班,運動部在籌備會議的時候有很多人對於這個體育班的存廢有不一樣的看法,部長對嗎?是有一些不同的想法。好,那現在是要存還是要廢?我目前還是繼續存。現在是要存。那既然是要存,那我們將來是歸運動部管還是歸教育部?"},{"start":4883.546,"end":4884.386,"text":"體育班的所有專業課程選信是由運動部,但是⋯⋯"},{"start":4901.132,"end":4907.934,"text":"教育暨運動部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":4925,"end":4925.521,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":4941.161,"end":4961.253,"text":"無縫接軌 繼續讓這一個人才的培育...部長你不能只有希望無縫接軌阿現在本席看起來就是亂七八糟我希望能不能阿一個月內阿你把這個到底阿我們體育班存還是廢如果今天是存到底什麼部份是運動部什麼部份是教育部來負責我們把釐清組書面來交給本席可以嗎?一個月?我們會後再把這個詳細的資料...一個月內可以嗎?可以可以好謝謝羅昭偉謝謝部長署長"},{"start":4969.434,"end":4972.896,"text":"接下來有請陳委員秀寶發言請謝主席請鄭部長以及鄭署長有請鄭部長跟鄭署長委員好"},{"start":4989.81,"end":5006.273,"text":"部長長今天是運動部組織法相關法案的這個選答但今天我看部長署長及次長都在場大家都十分的關心喔那運動部是從體育署升格那既然是既有的分署"},{"start":5006.733,"end":5007.514,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案"},{"start":5026.328,"end":5041.318,"text":"部組織法草案案件事項,我會質詢的是我們體育署升格運動部之後你們的立場跟一個態度的表達在現在體育署所面臨的這些問題在你們升格為運動部之後能不能解決我相信民眾都非常的關注首先我想要請教對我們單項協會所發生的各式各樣的問題我們升格之後我們有沒有這個能力來協助解決"},{"start":5048.243,"end":5048.983,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":5068.288,"end":5074.232,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,我們有辦法真正的協助到我們的體育選手我們的運動產業,其實單項選會頻頻出包這些問題不只是打擊到說我們在選手他們實質上的一些權益出賽的權益種種其實對他們心理上的傷害是非常的大他們的信心他們的熱忱可能在這些過程裡面被磨滅了所以說我現在直接詢問說我們在運動部成立之後有沒有預計針對協會出包的狀況我們制定相應應的這些問責機制"},{"start":5094.526,"end":5095.287,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":5112.96,"end":5126.685,"text":"謝謝我們提醒確實我們對單項協會絕對會有一個更嚴密的一個監督的一個機制確保我們所有的運動選手上的一些權益那詳細是不是請鄭書長來補充說明報告委員分兩個單位分兩個部分第一個我們設立一個專責的輔導單位第二個我們在加強多元意見的交流其實我們現在"},{"start":5134.848,"end":5145.877,"text":"體育組跟過去態度不一樣是過去可能不想過度介入我們協會自己的自治的一個運作但是我們現在因為我們給他大量的經費補助所以我們其實在很多地方是直接要求他了對所以我們現在改成直接要求他是沒有錯好那既然這樣署長您也說出你們的態度就是未來對於這個單項協會的管理會更加的嚴謹也希望說我們真的要具體的措施不要辜負民眾的期待"},{"start":5161.169,"end":5165.672,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案件,關於教練運動專任教練的管理我們運動部這邊的立場如何?會不會更積極?有關專任運動教練跟運動教練管理的問題其實很多教練都抱持著他們舊有的訓練的思維這個在過去本席在教文的時候委員會的時候有特別的關心我們看一下媒體他們整理出來的這個表格"},{"start":5184.605,"end":5203.88,"text":"其實教練不當管教的這個例子我們可以看到不管是學校體育班聘任的專任教練還是一般的體育老師或者是外面私人的道館俱樂部家長自聘或是球館的教練其實這個狀況我們最基本要關心的就是說這個些些潛在有問題的教練接觸到的是我們的孩子所以本席在這邊要給幾點的建議希望說運動部你們一定要納入考量"},{"start":5207.282,"end":5212.823,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":5230.687,"end":5235.032,"text":"這個部分會接觸到青少年的運動教練應該強制休息相關教育心理學等等的課程並且一定要納入教練的考核時數剛剛我有提醒到說這些狀況最基本我們要關心的問題就是這些潛在有問題的教練基本上他們接觸到都是我們的孩子"},{"start":5249.907,"end":5265.668,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案 。所以這些運動教練的管理及增能上北溪這邊要求說我們運動部一定要研擬只要持有教練證並且持續在進行教學適時的這些教練應該修習一定時數的教育及教育心理學並且要定期考核"},{"start":5267.669,"end":5293.323,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 相關規範 本席強調就是說是有形式的教練都要 這個部分一定希望運動部要研擬既然是升格運動部我們這是草野的共識而且是民眾的期待那麼你們必須要更有嚴謹的態度跟立場來規範這些相關的教練第三個部分是希望說我們地方的單項學會的委員會應該要重新定義有他們的角色"},{"start":5293.783,"end":5297.827,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具:「運動部組織法草案．事由．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動"},{"start":5315.802,"end":5331.977,"text":"但當有問題有爭議的時候地方的體育局是沒有辦法約束所以這邊也希望說我們運動部可以重新定義這些地方單項委員會的這些角色這個你能夠理解我現在所提出的問題嗎所以這個部分我希望能夠做到"},{"start":5332.617,"end":5334.258,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項"},{"start":5360.916,"end":5361.176,"text":"發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":5377.725,"end":5399.415,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由學校來處理,但是如果現在是外面的廠商來租借場地,其實就有運動部這邊來去做輔導。所以就跟現在的學校的游泳池上面做OT一樣的道理,其實這個部分我們未來會透過行政法人在各個縣市去做每個學校、校園開放的輔導。還是會有合作,不可能完全分開,一定是合作又分工。"},{"start":5400.251,"end":5405.093,"text":"租界的資訊其實現在有建制起來的就只有臺北田徑場可以連結到臺北市體育局的場地租界系統其他的縣市點進去是沒有反應是空的所以這邊我也希望說對於整個的運動場館的租界系統在運動部成立之後要協助各縣市地方政府來"},{"start":5422.08,"end":5440.887,"text":"建立這個預約的場地讓這些民眾需要場地租借的時候不會不得其門而入而且我們要去規範大小活動它使用場地的不同小型活動不要去佔用到大型的場地因為現在我們既然提升全民運動希望更多人來參與運動那必須有這些場地提供給要運動的人民眾來使用"},{"start":5445.089,"end":5461.797,"text":"所以這個部分呢我再次強調我對於體育署升格運動部我是非常支持的但是我今天是要的是你們升格之後你們的態度你們的立場跟你們的做法也希望說我剛才所提的這些問題你們日後一定要加入的在你們的這個討論裡面來演繹相對應的規範好以上謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝委員好謝謝各位委員好接下來有請各位委員盧君發言"},{"start":5480.081,"end":5483.364,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":5506.732,"end":5520.014,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 也有賴友友那這個大家在討論我把它放小一點但都很優秀那我想請教這個不曉得署長您對於在這一場比賽當中脫穎而出有沒有信心啊"},{"start":5521.241,"end":5531.585,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）事由．一）行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「體育暨運動法草案．一）行政院"},{"start":5540.648,"end":5555.675,"text":"電競確實就是運動請問署長我們運動產業發展條例第4條修正以後電子競技已經納入了嘛2022年的杭州亞運呢也納入了請問署長或者也許是未來的部長你認為電子競技是一項電子運動嗎目前體育署規劃有6個業務司你認為電子競技是哪一個司主管"},{"start":5563.223,"end":5577.539,"text":"保護委員目前我們會把它規劃暫時規劃在全民運動署底下的所以他是運動嗎對所以他是全民運動署嗎對那底下有什麼樣的單位會來協助新興運動組這一部分目前是我們暫時研議規劃的方向"},{"start":5580.222,"end":5603.609,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一）有設施規劃師、國際事務師、產業科技師、競技運動師、試運運動師、綜合規劃師。我想考署長一個假設題,假設明年我們台灣要舉辦英雄聯盟全球大賽,這個全球性的電子競技會要有哪一個師來主辦?報告委員這一部分我們會是由全民運動組這邊來做事前的"},{"start":5604.4,"end":5609.361,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案件 運動部組織法草案 案件 運動部組織法草案 案件 運動部組織法草案 案件"},{"start":5630.305,"end":5654.144,"text":"希望這個未來運動部的成立就是這個提球踢完就算是終局之戰希望不要變成外面踢完球變成內部踢希望未來如果各位都有機會是運動部部長的話妥善處理業務分工那我想您也推動全民運動那我還是要再次提醒就是運動不是只有流汗才算運動這個您同意嗎?"},{"start":5656.125,"end":5656.405,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":5679.259,"end":5690.352,"text":"我想運動部成立的目的就是希望能夠全民運動然後能夠讓全民能夠有更健康更幸福而同時透過運動產業也能夠來帶來這個幸福經濟我想包括運動平權這些都是我們希望能夠很好"},{"start":5698.522,"end":5712.647,"text":"部長可是你這樣回答有可能會打臉我們的院長我們的院長在總諮詢的時候一直提到奪牌也很重要全民運動也很重要但我們現在看到現在的規劃有全民運動沒錯您答得很好有參加國際組織答得很好"},{"start":5715.208,"end":5735.62,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案件中完全沒有奪牌啊我覺得接下來的規劃是不是因為想要怎麼樣去挪用這些規劃的這些預算還是說一些什麼樣重新的安排是未來如果沒有人奪牌我們就說我們現在全民健康了我們不做奪牌了請教一下我們是就不再注重奪牌了嗎為什麼裡面完全沒有"},{"start":5737.29,"end":5761.305,"text":"為什麼推動全民運動過去我們是用體育班那是用從小就開始一個精英班但是我們非常清楚全民運動以後就是兵多將館他能夠奪牌的人就更多我們看到一個Stanford我這一次巴黎奧運讓我感受非常深刻國際一流的大學光奧運拿了二三十面的一個金牌"},{"start":5762.285,"end":5779.848,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 也就是說我們怎麼樣去創造他不是只有特定的人才能夠這個奪牌。市部長我的想法跟你一樣台灣爭光還是很重要但是為什麼裡面現在就是完全沒有這方面的規劃呢那到底是哪一個署哪一個司要負責奪牌呢萬一未來奪牌的表現不好到底誰要負責啊"},{"start":5781.129,"end":5807.761,"text":"公文報我們事實上是有規劃運動競技室而且為什麼會有除了過去的所謂大家熟悉的左訓那就是全國運動在國家運動訓練中心外我們還有一個科學中心加上來就是希望透過運動科學科技進去能夠所以還是要奪牌嘛是不是那未來我覺得規劃就要納入這個部分要講清楚好不好透過精準的一個研究去支持選手訓練來奪牌"},{"start":5809.622,"end":5838.906,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案件,我們現在其實民間還是有一些疑慮在化解就是說這個跨領域或者跨單位有時候就變成掛了就掛掉了請教一下部長假設學校要購買棒球器材體育班的專業訓練您剛剛自己也有提到嘛購買器材申請的相關補助到底要向教育部申請還是運動部申請啊這基本上運動部會支持但是這個上述的問題我們的理解是現在您過去的說法是說人由教育部主管啊"},{"start":5839.306,"end":5842.888,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一．一般體育教學的會維持在我們的教育部學校裡邊體育組會有一個這個學校這個學校體育組這一個來負責"},{"start":5863.482,"end":5864.362,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":5883.763,"end":5910.196,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 應變成一種享受,那其實不應該讓他們有太大的壓力,想請教部長未來體育班的訓練可不可以納入運動醫學的專業,或者是運動心理的專業,去協助他們做最適合的訓練方式跟時長。謝謝委員,確實我們成立國家運動科學中心就希望有這樣一個目的,然後學校的運動選手也有許多的心理跟這一個運動"},{"start":5913.978,"end":5924.803,"text":"科學中心運動科學中心也要來協助體育班的運動醫學跟這個運動心理是不是這樣嗎我們有留下記錄我們之後一起來檢視好不好好謝謝謝謝各位謝謝部長跟署長接下來有請羅委員庭委發言好有請部長鄭部長有請鄭部長"},{"start":5944.099,"end":5965.674,"text":"部長,運動部最快明年下半年掛牌,體育署就要跟教育部脫離。像一部長半年來的一個觀察,請問您個人覺得運動部的部長需要具備什麼樣的條件?心中有沒有人選?持平而論,心中沒有人選。我覺得我還蠻適合的。你還蠻適合的?因為我蠻喜歡運動的。那你個人覺得紅衣中適合嗎?"},{"start":5972.802,"end":5973.343,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":6000.606,"end":6011.254,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．"},{"start":6027.318,"end":6043.451,"text":"我跟您分享我這個沒有要什麼特別要給你糾正或怎麼樣我希望大家一起來重視這個問題這次2024的英雄聯盟是在這個T1尤其是韓國又五連冠那我們在2012您還記得是台灣哪一支隊伍奪冠嗎"},{"start":6047.166,"end":6075.15,"text":"對不起確實我在這一個部分是比較生疏沒關係沒關係我們一起加油看起來我不太適合當民眾部長我做這些事情不會來做批評因為我想每個人關注的東西不一樣但是我關注的是電競我希望能夠邀請你一起來關注我們一起來加強2012年是台北暗殺星TPA當時掀起一股旋風全國都為之振奮我們拿到世界冠軍而現在我們看到了韓國已經五連冠"},{"start":6076.021,"end":6076.682,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":6092.876,"end":6115.064,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 預算的問題還有我們對於國際運動賽事長之於在這個教育體系下能不能有所發揮我們希望他能夠有一個地方讓他有一個舞台我想這個不符合國際的趨勢讓我們非常的擔憂所以我想請問一下部長體育組升格後像是運動產業運動場館經營等等都已經超出教育範疇的一個業務這些問題是否都能夠解決"},{"start":6120.59,"end":6147.983,"text":"實際上我們看到整個不管是產業的需求包括我們對運動上的品質上健康的一些期待我想這都是我們努力的目標好那剛剛其實其他委員很關心有關於這個運動賽事電競的產業電競的一個運動比賽是不是屬於運動部執掌去做掌握的剛剛已經有回應對不對但是每年國際上的一個電競大賽過去教育部體育署沒有辦法補助"},{"start":6149.918,"end":6157.674,"text":"協會也沒有辦法做什麼終究選手還是得靠自己那運動部成立以後這個部分呢經費已經要給你們變多啦有沒有辦法補助"},{"start":6158.649,"end":6181.134,"text":"我想這一個部分我們當然這一個所有的運動這個賽會的補助他會看這一個他的一個分類就是說他是屬於運動這個全世界層級的亞洲層級的縣市層級的當然他這個補助我知道你要說這些嘛但是我說所有電競選手出國參賽的機票錢未來可不可以有更明確更具體的由體育部"},{"start":6182.354,"end":6183.015,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":6204.977,"end":6212.427,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":6222.419,"end":6247.879,"text":"人民知道我們關心電競我們不是冷門塞斯不去協助我們至少幫忙導入一些民間的企業協助導入而不是只是修法等企業來幫忙贊助這部分我希望運動部能夠在未來有所發揮那我想確保電競的選手不會流失這也是現在運動部未來要很重要的一個點因為包括我們幾個好朋友包括他玩那個卡丁車"},{"start":6248.839,"end":6267.369,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 冠軍 結果韓國一直在挖角我們要怎麼去想辦法不要讓這些人能夠流失運動部要怎麼樣能夠去把這些事情好好的規劃我想隨著這些我們所關注的議題以及未來國人越來越長壽運動部成立以後65歲銀髮族壯士代的運動規劃運動產業也要顯現出來好不好那在最後我想說部長"},{"start":6274.397,"end":6303.431,"text":"我個人認為學哲學是一個非常重要的一個事物那因為我們人生中充滿各式各樣的一個問題學習哲學就是我們幫助他們找到問題的一個解答的一個鑰匙就是思考要有思考才有辦法去邏輯才有辦法去運作才有辦法去了解問題去解決問題如今天教育部報告所提的哲學教育現行的執掌規定以韓瓜那既然以韓瓜單獨列出哲學教育又有什麼問題"},{"start":6305.816,"end":6323.523,"text":"公務員報告確實我非常佩服委員特別重視這一個學生的一個思考我想昨天剛公布了全世界的這一個這一個電腦與資訊素養的國際評比裡邊我們台灣就在運算的思維也就是說在問題解決跟邏輯思考分析問題這個部分我們的"},{"start":6332.466,"end":6333.086,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":6349.816,"end":6376.926,"text":"這也是我們這個108課綱裡面一直在強調的所以其實我們在這個部分所努力的跟委員所這一個對教育人才的培育的方向是一致的稍微最後15秒我們希望能夠給孩子有更多元的一個機會我們在提倡多元教育但是不要忘記孩子的未來不是用分數來定奪的讓孩子打開這個思考的邏輯讓孩子有更好的未來我們一起加油好不好謝謝羅委員謝謝部長"},{"start":6379.912,"end":6381.593,"text":"接下來有請專委員瑞雄發言。有請政部長以及體育署政署長"},{"start":6398.308,"end":6399.769,"text":"運動部的一個成立"},{"start":6414.474,"end":6414.734,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":6429.767,"end":6438.853,"text":"但是我一直在想說這個權責如何去做劃分呢?我剛才這樣很高興就剛才大家立委這樣問到了,補助啦。講的像我都講到這裡來。其實未來整個運動部不如政府長你先讓他檢驗檢驗就好了啦。不然你看大家都可能要幫你討補助啦。你那個範圍裡面,你看你那個權責裡面也有衛福部的啦,也有原來你教育部的啦。"},{"start":6458.516,"end":6458.916,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":6475.95,"end":6476.29,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":6495.223,"end":6505.654,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件事宜 回應外界大家對我們的一個看法那應該是專業分工跟專業來去解決了而且更需要的是說你去釐清目前我們整個運動發展所面臨的具體的問題跟組織你的一個目標這些指引要出來以這一次來看"},{"start":6513.342,"end":6535.137,"text":"我們運動部你設立的這個新興運動組你負責去推動新興極限跟傳統民俗的運動那本時就要請教部長跟署長就是說這個新興運動組你到底想解決現階段什麼樣的一個問題你們到底現在想法有沒有很明確那夠不夠清晰所以還叫做新興運動"},{"start":6536.678,"end":6565.271,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 或是事務部組織法草案要怎麼區別?報告委員基本上我們在面對這些新興運動的部分我們大概分兩個種類一個是像自由潛水它需要很多跨部會的一些法案法令上面的一個統合他們面臨有這樣的問題特別像保險之類的那像三對三籃球或者是霹靂舞它比較像它跟其他的傳統的這些的奧運種類的協會他們之間有點像附屬的關係可是之間的權責的確有一些分工上的問題這部分都是我們在新興運動這個組未來要去解決的"},{"start":6566.491,"end":6567.052,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":6585.811,"end":6603.181,"text":"其實現在我看363也受到國際上的一個重視甚至納入這個整個亞奧會的一個項目裡面他到底算不算新星你看這個自由潛水確實啊又屬於海洋運動然後又兼具著整個極限運動的一個屬性現在你們是把它歸類在海洋山林"},{"start":6605.122,"end":6615.728,"text":"行政院向海致敬政策發展部組織法草案。這是很好啦!你又自由潛水,你這個深度挑戰更算是一種極限運動的一種。你很難過啦!霹靂舞這個就好了啦!你現在已經是奧運的項目了啦!"},{"start":6623.851,"end":6640.416,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 今年變巴黎奧運的一個正式的一個項目那台灣本來這個要台灣舉本來是今年要舉辦這個世界盃嘛中國人打壓那就到最後就沒辦法了我意思就是說你們到底沒有明確的一個指引幫委員這樣講好了這很重要是幫委員就是說"},{"start":6641.596,"end":6664.832,"text":"我們在已經發展一個程度以上像帆船這樣子還有划船他們這樣一個水域的運動我們把它放在海洋山林這部分但是在比較花需要花更多的力氣去整合整個部會還有跟傳統協會之間的問題的時候我們先把它放在星星因為他們也是最近因為奧運或亞運剛進去所以才引起大家的注意但其實他們跟原來的傳統協會很多的問題存在。署長,不用小便啦講的都很好講啦"},{"start":6669.249,"end":6669.63,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":6678.062,"end":6696.895,"text":"報委員這在我們公務體育很常見不過還是要看首長以及主秘代做這個協調啦那當然啦那當然啦你現在你跟過去10年國內興起的運動多少啊你說滑板、飛盤、障礙的路跑甚至於攀岩、空中瑜伽、電競剛才幾個人問小人開始跳繩的也都是啊全部都都是啊所以你注意把它看就是說如果說像比如剛剛大家問到的那個電競電競"},{"start":6706.363,"end":6706.843,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":6731.974,"end":6736.379,"text":"那這一些就不到這裏可以回答了。老師去打孩子,國教署管。他到年來去打球員、打運動員,還要送上館。"},{"start":6743.789,"end":6766.381,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 還是講到那個權責的一個問題啦。我一直認為說我們整個基層的體育班訓練跟基層教練的培養的一個責任範圍跟目標啊。這些我們都過去比較不足的一個地方啊。你要去健全最高層級的職業賽事的發展甚至國家隊的一個成績喔。你那個三級教育裡面本來就是扎根啊。我以籃球為例啦。"},{"start":6769.583,"end":6787.095,"text":"行州亞運拿下三對三金牌教練吳政傑老師講的就是我們的國小跟國中基礎養成的教育出現了偏差到最後變成受傷害的是大學階段跟直染本土的一個球員。籃球我們常常講區域聯防我們這個名字常常聽到嘛這書裡面都清楚嘛基層就被廣泛使用到職業隊甚至到國家隊這戰術就是說你防守的人你就過去"},{"start":6796.641,"end":6797.482,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":6819.975,"end":6835.511,"text":"體育署這個地方應該可以找我們少年藍鞋跟高中體總一起來研議一下不然對整個未來的一個發展這觀念沒有去做一個釐清的話這個對以後的整個體育你說運動部成立以後觀念沒有跟上來很難講的"},{"start":6838.837,"end":6844.919,"text":"法務委員其實這個議題在國小籃球以及高中體育他們其實都開過會不過我覺得還有籃協都開過會我覺得是會議主持人的問題啦我想這個部分我們會會來著召集他們來做比較明確的一個會議上的一個結論啦我覺得這很重要的啦你不要以為這個我其實這個也是為那種基層的教練在請命啦他們都非常辛苦啦還要顧問話還要顧成績對不對還要未來還要賭在這裡"},{"start":6868.082,"end":6886.997,"text":"你沒有一個說很明確讓他們有一點保障然後我們整個基層的一個教育觀念沒有去先做一個釐清的話這些沒有做改變的話運動部成立喔你很多事情都跟以前讀到的問題一樣都沒辦法解決啦好好思考一下啦尤其是署長啦好不好好謝謝謝謝莊委員謝謝部長謝謝署長好接下來有請陳委員俊宇發言"},{"start":6905.865,"end":6927.381,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請政部長有請政部長好部長早委員早我想我們提倡這個全民運動是為了要促進國民的健康那不但是政府的一個重要的施政目標之一那運動部也不單是將原有的這個體育署來做一個放大的這個動作而已"},{"start":6928.041,"end":6954.918,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 也會成為一個全新的部會。期待我們透過組織之間的各司其職能夠有一個比較好的成效。希望說能夠再建構新的思維來解決過去存在已久的比較難改善的相關問題。首先我想在此對於我們運動部的架構還有它未來運作的情形和部長做一個討論。"},{"start":6956.119,"end":6971.151,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 覆蓋了全國所有運動相關的事項,而且目前已知道在學校的體育還有部分會保留在國教署底下的編制負責。」"},{"start":6972.372,"end":6976.577,"text":"實務上有關運動的場域、培訓課程的規劃以及老師還有教練的協調可能還是會因為專業或是業務範圍的重疊進而產生權責不清的這種情況。"},{"start":6988.291,"end":7005.92,"text":"那是不是請教部長來做簡單的說明未來兩部會之間的運作還有權責如何來分清楚而且在新舊機關變革的時候我們該如何來避免這個業務過於模糊而跌闖架屋的情形"},{"start":7007.264,"end":7029.716,"text":"謝謝委員提醒,確實當體育署成立這一個新的運動部,成為新的運動部,我們當然有分工,但是原來的合作事實上還是在的。也就是說我們目前在學校體育這個區塊,我們會在國教署裡面成立有一個學校體育教學的一個組。"},{"start":7030.316,"end":7035.677,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案件,包括相對應的這些運動設施,都是由教育部來負責。至於學校之外的場館,或者屬於運動專業,比如說體育班的許多課程的這些規劃,包括運動選手的這些的一個"},{"start":7058.863,"end":7059.524,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7081.039,"end":7091.16,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,但是至於這個運動教練專業運動教練裡邊的所謂的真人啊或者他的一些訓練等等的或者一些懲處"},{"start":7093.342,"end":7114.322,"text":"教評會裡邊學校的教評會有學校機制但是到最後是送到這一個運動部裡邊來做最後的一個部長我還是要請我們對於這個部分的權責要劃分清楚避免這個業務重疊導致我們這個有一些學校他要辦理相關業務或是我們在關心教育的時候"},{"start":7115.103,"end":7117.865,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7144.306,"end":7168.379,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事務司負責處理,我們處理國際事務的量能是否能夠即使因應選手在國外的需求。我想這部分是請部長您簡單說。我想謝謝委員的一個關心運動選手在國際上比賽的許多的權益上的一個保護。我想他除了這一個運動部未來的一個國際交流這一個"},{"start":7168.959,"end":7187.664,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件事 相關的一個來協助以外我們政府裡邊外交部有各部會的這個派出外面的這一個駐外的這些的相關的這一個這一個人員都可以來協助我們在整個政府的一個一個團隊裡邊來協助維護我們運動選手的權益好那聽起來我們未來這個運動部是否"},{"start":7195.766,"end":7223.42,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 會編製住外單位或人力?我目前是有這樣一個規劃。過去也有像這種國際少年運動會以各縣市的民意組隊來參加,代表自己的城市來進行相關的交流,也順道來推動我們的運動外交,帶動城市的知名度。在運動外交的工作上,我們該怎樣和地方"},{"start":7224.271,"end":7232.899,"text":"政府的城市外交來做結合推動是不是打造各縣市的這個在地特色的運動項目競賽活動來進行外交"},{"start":7236.551,"end":7263.272,"text":"謝謝委員因為關心確實我們在這一個部分體育署以目前就有獎勵的一個辦法我們也鼓勵各縣市當這個世界少年運動會的時候我們會針對這個不同的一個縣市他們的一個意願然後給予這個經會的支持鼓勵他們能夠讓這一個縣市的青少年能夠有機會在國際舞台不管在許多的交流或者在許多競技上的一些這樣一個經驗我想"},{"start":7265.814,"end":7266.354,"text":"外交推展部組織法草案案。」"},{"start":7294.363,"end":7296.464,"text":"謝謝陳委員謝謝鄭部長署長接下來有請林委員施明發言好謝謝主席主席請部長讓部長喝口水了"},{"start":7312.847,"end":7315.509,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7340.791,"end":7342.794,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":7361.38,"end":7362,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":7391.288,"end":7391.548,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一）"},{"start":7408.49,"end":7409.731,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7436.711,"end":7456.239,"text":"資源包括整合社會的資源來支持我們讓每一個青少年…。 主要就是鑑於我們社會變遷,現在運動人口也越來越多,當然我們的選手在國際上的能見度也越來的大放異彩。"},{"start":7457.68,"end":7458.76,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項"},{"start":7487.406,"end":7491.867,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":7517.656,"end":7532.603,"text":"外交部組織法草案案件事項 影響我們台灣在國際的影響力,我想這部分都是我們運動部成立的必要性。是,我想我都非常贊成兩位的說法。但是我現在就是一個非常關心的就是運動產業的一個發展。我想我們整個運動產業的發展能夠帶動"},{"start":7534.884,"end":7536.425,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":7562.975,"end":7590.595,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事宜,他就到我們台灣來做觀光,所以也帶來我們周邊觀光的一個效益,所以這個運動現在已經不是只停留在過去說我們就是由教育部轄下的各級學校來發展我們的體育,所以對於這個整個運動的發展我們把它提升讓運動部來成立,那我想說我們現在成立的運動部我們看到你的組織法是一部一組三個中心嘛,"},{"start":7591.115,"end":7591.335,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":7608.01,"end":7608.29,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":7627.844,"end":7628.224,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":7648.626,"end":7649.146,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":7664.019,"end":7664.219,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":7694.359,"end":7695.219,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":7719.468,"end":7745.419,"text":"委員好部長好很感動今天中午要開啟運動部相關的這個法條的這個審查那我想2020我首次把運動要成為部會的納入證件放上選舉公報那花了整整上一屆一整年的時間不管是委員會的質詢總質詢都一直在提出這樣的倡議"},{"start":7746.92,"end":7747.64,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":7776.076,"end":7795.155,"text":"實際上早在1968年左右就有體育人士做出相關的倡議那在1988年更在立法院有留下委員會的紀錄那直到近年我們也陸續召開了體育署升格體育部的公聽會我們也委託了國立體育大學完成了教育部體育署組織調整評估計畫成果報告書"},{"start":7798.258,"end":7800.479,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7823.864,"end":7844.491,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 成立運動部的這個核心論述是什麼就是說既然我要成立一個新的部會代表他要有要補齊不足原本不足之處所以要請教部長跟署長我們成運動部成立當然覺得有其他的必要性那可是運動部成立後你認為首要的改革的工作是什麼"},{"start":7846.533,"end":7862.197,"text":"我覺得我們在這個運動人才的培育是他的頂範在改變對過去我們認為只有找特定的一些人來訓練那就是體育班三級教育然後到體育大學可是我們看到"},{"start":7862.697,"end":7862.917,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":7881.553,"end":7882.573,"text":"全民運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":7910.003,"end":7911.464,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":7933.271,"end":7953.749,"text":"好那我們就講到運動產業在接下來一連串的這個法制作業中行政法人這個國家運動產業發展中心的設置就是一個很大的重點那我們知道產業面的這個發展全方位的思維確實是過去體育署一個署的這樣的單位力所未待的那"},{"start":7954.369,"end":7980.236,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 也曾經坦言說如果運動部設立跟原本的體育組的思維完全不同甚至有點是顛倒就運動部會著重在所謂的基礎的這個運動產業包括全民運動的推廣那所以根據這個運動產業發展條例我們所謂的運動產業就13個面向那每一項都涉及不同的專業知識包括"},{"start":7981.416,"end":8007.908,"text":"運動博弈、運動旅遊、運動經濟管理顧問之外像電競,剛剛有委員槌詢過也是其中的一環那其他還有運動保健、運動傳播、運動表演等等所以這些大項目底下還有很多的小細項那所以教育部公告的這個運動產業內容及範圍就指出我們為了撐起整個運動產業教育部、文化部、交通部、經濟部、內政部、衛福部等等"},{"start":8008.148,"end":8023.686,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 都各有各的角色扮演,那各有各的任務承接,所以我要請教這個署長就是說未來運動部成立之後上述這些相關的部會的任務分工跟合作的模式到底是有什麼樣的變革跟推展。"},{"start":8026.485,"end":8046.991,"text":"創立運動部之後我們最主要是人力的部分經費的部分才有這個籌碼去跟其他的部會來做一個跨部會的合作那我們的確現階段受限於人力跟經費的不足我們在跟各部會的時候不只是成績問題而已最重要的是很實在的就是沒有人有足夠人力來做這些的事情我想這部分是未來最主要最重要的一個不同"},{"start":8047.765,"end":8048.146,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":8063.726,"end":8066.549,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項案件事項"},{"start":8081.624,"end":8082.244,"text":"暨運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":8109.81,"end":8123.96,"text":"接下來有請吳委員私謠發言謝謝主席有請部長跟署長請正部長及正署長"},{"start":8128.527,"end":8130.609,"text":"運動不分黨派,跨越世代。我非常期待在朝野的紛紛擾擾。"},{"start":8150.35,"end":8164.381,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事宜,成立運動部會是我們緩解朝野對立的一線生機。我們希望能夠朝野合作,讓成立運動部為政治的對立來破冰。我也期待我們為"},{"start":8165.58,"end":8183.519,"text":"黑暗國會注入一道暖流。」首先賴清德在競選總統的時候的體育八大政見應當都有含括在未來運動部的所有規劃當中但是我就就較於預算這一個"},{"start":8185.541,"end":8206.799,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一．一年突破200億,那我以今年度的預算是158.58億,我們成長了大概23億,包括公務預算跟運發基金,但是呢我就要問您,要給您資源成立了運動部,那什麼時候可以做到一年200億的達標?謝謝委員關心,也謝謝委員支持,我們確實"},{"start":8213.044,"end":8216.726,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一．一年兩百億的運動預算能夠達標,國會一定要支持。」"},{"start":8236.554,"end":8236.994,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":8259.071,"end":8270.109,"text":"但是我有四個期許請部長跟署長記得吳思瑤的四個關鍵字四個期許第一個落實運動的多元平權尤其是女性運動"},{"start":8273.114,"end":8282.938,"text":"經濟運動全民化、真正做到運動普及、推展新興運動及國際接軌、持續深化體育改革、加強對單項協會的監管機制。我的四個關鍵字請部長跟署長一定要落實。"},{"start":8295.243,"end":8319.499,"text":"我投入女子運動我想你們都參加過我的活動女棒我是女子棒球協會的榮譽理事長女棒走了23、4年今年女棒聯賽第5屆在台南謝謝你們都有來參與我們甚至女棒協會我們首次往U12開始向下扎根我希望未來我因為自己投入女子棒球運動"},{"start":8320.58,"end":8337.467,"text":"我才發現運動的性別平權我們還有很大的進步空間下一頁性別平權跟年輕化是國際奧委會的改革方向除了選手一比一也包括增加性別的混合賽事東京奧運18項巴黎奧運來到22項"},{"start":8340.848,"end":8354.348,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":8357.824,"end":8376.858,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 都高於男性。這些運動政策的這些制定者女性的比例都來到四成以上。然後呢女性教練的員額也被奧運列管成為性別平權國際奧委會的努力方向。我們來看看台灣。下一頁。"},{"start":8378.188,"end":8394.811,"text":"台灣女性的運動參與仍有進步的空間我當中揪出兩個重點時間有限請你們回去改善第一個教練的女性的統計還是遠遠低於男性雖然選手我們女性已經多於男性了"},{"start":8395.211,"end":8422.259,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事項。但是教練的培植還是女性低於男性。然後我們對於譬如說我以我們的運動參與有決策權的我們的奧委會的執行委員23名男性只有兩名女性跟上國際國際已經來到四成是女性了所以在運動參與除了運動員教練到運動政策的參與者是不是都努力來"},{"start":8423.387,"end":8423.667,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 。"},{"start":8439.602,"end":8461.53,"text":"實施就在2026年當我們的運動200億達標我們同時在2026年成為台灣女子運動元年重新頒布一個女性運動白皮書可以嗎這應該很簡單就回應yes or no努力好謝謝下一頁同樣的我的第二個關鍵字全民化"},{"start":8462.97,"end":8481.627,"text":"全民運動組織到位了人事到位了但是預算沒有到位全民運動組的預算3.8億我是用114年的預算只佔5%然後在運發基金裡頭非亞澳項目的基層人才的培育計畫只有11.8億只有14%"},{"start":8484.87,"end":8514.239,"text":"我提出問題,如果要做到運動的普及,競技運動的全民化,組織人士到位了,預算也請跟上,好嗎?」這是我第二個提醒。第三個,好,快結束了。新興運動是台灣大有可為的項目。二零二八年對準洛杉磯奧運的新興運動項目有邀請美式足球,這台灣可能比較難啦。但是,壁球、衝浪、競技攀岩跟滑板,"},{"start":8514.779,"end":8540.709,"text":"草案案案件事宜,我們可以贏在前期的黃金計劃就重點投資這些新興計劃也應當可以做到。再下一個落實體育改革2017年我跟嘉賓委員都是教育委員會我們努力的改革了國民體育法但是呢下一頁單項協會的爭議依然層出不窮這是這一年來不管是足協不管是攔協"},{"start":8542.35,"end":8557.249,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 都需要有效監理的加強作為。」所以我請你們回去把我的四大關鍵性別平權、全民化、我們的新興運動的投資以及對於單項協會的運動改革"},{"start":8560.974,"end":8570.621,"text":"發展部組織法草案 都要能夠落實也請支持吳思瑤版的運動產業發展條例的修法今天時間到了我希望後續會有時間再跟您討論但是2026年200億的預算2026年我們有第二版的女子運動白皮書2.0好不好我們一起努力"},{"start":8579.908,"end":8588.514,"text":"謝謝吳委員謝謝部長和署長在這裡先做會議程序的宣告稍後在羅委員志強詢問完畢後休息10分鐘接續下來請羅委員志強進行詢問有請部長跟署長請部長及署長委員好"},{"start":8606.653,"end":8625.835,"text":"部長好,政府要成立運動部,那你預估明年8月掛牌嘛,那原額會到400人,那後年的預算就到200億嘛,對不對?那我想朝野都樂觀其成,但有幾個問題就教,第一個我想請問一下,運動部成立奪牌重要嗎?"},{"start":8627.659,"end":8650.295,"text":"那也是目標之一目標之一嘛對不對我剛有聽葛如荊委員在質詢你嘛你也講說奪牌很重要也是個目標之一可是今天你的報告我就覺得有個地方我就有點看不懂了你們在寫運動部成立的目的上面寫的目的放第一行就是從奪牌改成重視全民運動投入的嶄新思維"},{"start":8652.016,"end":8679.107,"text":"因為您是部長嘛中文語語法你也知道齁這個寫法我想請教奪牌跟全民投入運動是衝突的嗎沒有衝突對啊沒有衝突他甚至可以相輔相成吧一個國家全民運動風氣起來對不對我們的base變大的話實際上選手平均的能力增加奪牌的機會會增加嘛可是你們的目的這樣寫法我說真的我覺得第一個可能要改一下啦"},{"start":8680.447,"end":8683.388,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事宜,此外,此外,此外,此外,此外。"},{"start":8708.584,"end":8709.244,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事項。"},{"start":8728.429,"end":8749.039,"text":"這個部分我想因為說實在的話就是說實際上你大概看到一個重大國際賽事如果沒有好成績的話其實對國內的全民運動投入當然也是正向鼓勵啊是的對所以這兩個是正循環的我覺得不應該直接就在我們運動部成立目的就先跟大家講說好像一副奪牌要被別的目的取代那我跟你們不講我老實講"},{"start":8750.62,"end":8751.401,"text":"體育部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":8779.838,"end":8796.364,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 未來的運動部現在有什麼機制去保障?這是不是能夠請這位副組長來?抱怨在競技參賽的權利部分當然是我們運動部的部分但如果講到的是體罰相關我們在調查的部分是由"},{"start":8797.34,"end":8817.209,"text":"國教署學校統一進行,但是後續的懲處會由運動部來主導。」我舉內外兩個例子,也是期免我們體育署也好或未來的運動部要注意的。我們先從所謂的遠的,就是內部的部分。過去有關於國家隊的事項,常常出現各體育協會跟職業選手之間的相關爭議。"},{"start":8822.911,"end":8828.917,"text":"體育署常常被IP沒有作為。以2016年的里約奧運那時非常大的一個新聞就是我們的網球選手謝淑薇因為控訴網球協會選拔奧運的教練制度不公所以當場宣布退出單打跟雙打比賽"},{"start":8840.367,"end":8864.779,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案件,教育部跟體育署都還遭到監察院的糾正,這個是對內體育選手的權益問題,我希望現在的體育署跟未來的體育部,我們的體育選手權益要照顧。另外一個是最近的問題,我想請教一下,如果我們的奧運金牌的選手受辱,現在的體育署或未來的運動部有什麼機制去保障?"},{"start":8866.738,"end":8881.205,"text":"法務委員我們在過去這段時間我們一向是以選手他的需求為主要的我用一個具體的例子問您您知道吧川普這個總統他在選前在這賓州的肇事活動他提了他說"},{"start":8882.085,"end":8907.333,"text":"巴黎奧運中有兩名變性人他們原來是男生變性為女生後來參加拳擊賽然後開始做了一些批評雖然他沒有直接點名這兩位女拳手但他普遍大家認為說其實川普說的就是我們台灣的拳后林玉婷跟阿爾及利亞的女將克利夫我想請教你一下其實川普不是第一次這樣講了只是那時候還是總統的參選人而已"},{"start":8910.474,"end":8929.079,"text":"請問體育署第一時間對於這些國外政壇重要人士你們的回應是什麼?有回應嗎?報告委員我們這部分還是由選手這邊的意願由他這邊來進行除非他同意那我們才會來做一個發言那我想請教你你有去問過嗎?報告委員我們從整個從他市警賽我先這樣講我覺得我要跟那個體育署講"},{"start":8939.761,"end":8966.026,"text":"其實他是總統的這個參選人那未來他當了總統之後他是不是還是同樣的想法那這事情不能完全是推給選手啦我覺得今天國家有捍衛我們選手尊嚴的義務你剛剛的說法其實基本上就是體育署基本上沒有作為嘛在之前是沒有作為嘛包括有的我們就跟選手教練有做很好的一個溝通協調之後才就做發言我告訴你們政府官方去跟選手溝通"},{"start":8967.846,"end":8990.025,"text":"對選手而言的話他們也當然會體諒你們一點可是作為政府部門要當選手的後盾我這問題的話問題我也質詢過外交部啦當然我覺得體育署要有基本的立場那將來體育部更也要有基本的立場那外交部跟外交部協調怎麼去做溝通當然困難我不會認為不困難可是不能沒有態度"},{"start":8990.68,"end":8997.841,"text":"這是我對體育部未來的期許 以上 謝謝謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長 謝謝署長 我們先前宣告休息10分鐘"},{"start":9016.42,"end":9030.243,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案 案 議員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發"},{"start":9057.778,"end":9063.542,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案 。"},{"start":9815.7,"end":9817.861,"text":"現在繼續開會請陳委員培餘發言好謝謝主席有請部長請正部長謝謝"},{"start":9835.436,"end":9860.49,"text":"運動部組織法草案案。我們總算看到了我們來看一下我們辦公室有非常多關於體育的關懷我想部長應該非常清楚我們先看下一頁在上個禮拜呢鄭麗君副院長接受了相關的專訪其中有一段話我覺得非常非常重要他應該也可以呼應國人目前對於即將到來的運動部的想像也就是一個一般的現代人對運動的期待跟想像那"},{"start":9861.07,"end":9887.767,"text":"不只是勝負的價值或者是奪牌的思維而是有更多關於整體的對於運動的想像跟需求所以副院長用了翻轉這個詞我覺得很重要我也要在這邊提出跟部長作為建議我們來看下一個要翻轉什麼我們一起來看其實很重要的是翻轉奪牌主義的功利思維落實全民運動的概念重建台灣的運動文化讓運動不再只是為國爭光而能夠成為台灣人共同的生命經驗"},{"start":9888.607,"end":9904.037,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案 但相關的論述作為所有政策的配套我們一起來看我想要提出一些積極的建議在我自己的版本裡面第一個我想要談的是運動部的組織規劃應該要解決問題而不是局限於現在的框架"},{"start":9904.657,"end":9912.105,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":9927.961,"end":9955.939,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事件,關於在那個棒球場外面的那個他說要放一個杯這樣做紀念台灣長期以來忽略運動文化的保存這件事情這個事實我認為我們未來應該要急起直追所以我提出運動監理司跟運動文化與資源司我想要特別談一下運動監理司請部長看一下我的投影片上在投影片的左邊是現況我們來看一下體育署目前的競技組一直都被戲稱為提款機"},{"start":9957.64,"end":9972.692,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由．一）單項協會的監督單位而相關的奪牌KBI其實也在體育署的競技組因此有相關的補助也都會落到單項協會裡頭因此我們可以看到過往不管是藍協、竹協有非常多委員不是只有我"},{"start":9973.873,"end":9996.348,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事項,但因為過去他們都跟奪牌綁在一起,因此就有很多的弊病產生。我認為在未來運動部的規劃底下,監理跟補助應該拉到我右邊這張圖來看。單項協會它的監督是有運動監理司,相關的奪牌這件事情還是國人有共同的期待,我認為有運動競技司來規劃。最後相關的補助應該由目前由副院長提出來所謂運動發展中心"},{"start":10004.032,"end":10032.123,"text":"合作組織法草案事件 也就是我們把監督奪牌跟補助徹底的分離才不會綁在一起產生過往的弊病這個部分也要拜託教育部積極的研議也在運動部升格這個路上我們真的要認真面對如果單項協會的改革沒有辦法在這一次升格獲得解決後續還是有非常非常多的問題跟弊病還是要由立法院不斷的監督那我想到那個時候如果問題沒有解決對於國人的期待也是相對落空"},{"start":10032.563,"end":10032.883,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案"},{"start":10051.169,"end":10068.179,"text":"社區推廣組還有適應運動跟體育組還有戶外跟民族運動組我認為這樣的規劃才能讓全民屬發揮它最大的功能因為每一個年齡族群每一個運動項目都有他們特定的需求這個是我提出來的建議也請教一部參考"},{"start":10069.099,"end":10078.085,"text":"最後我覺得是現在非常非常困難理解的就是關於體育班的業務部長您應該非常清楚體育班他從實質他從訓練到相關的賽制還有後續的非常多的配套還有適應體育長期以來也是我們體育署忽略的"},{"start":10085.549,"end":10113.398,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 但在運動部升格之後到底怎麼去面對跟處理這件事情我知道體育署在相關升格的活動上辦了非常多座談會我自己在立法院也因著這個連線我們也辦了兩場座談會關於體育班還有適應體育我積極的建議教育部應該要把體育班的業務跟適應體育的業務放在教育部做相關的分工處理免得會有分工不清的問題當然很多的細節沒有辦法在今天討論我們希望後續再跟教育部積極的討論"},{"start":10114.718,"end":10141.764,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案 下一張那有很多日本的經驗我今天時間不夠我就不再贅述可是我要談日本之所以有這樣的架構是因為他們對於整個國民體育運動的發展是有一個長年百年的規劃跟想像但是目前如果我們運動部的規劃侷限在目前體育署的業務我們會受限很多這個部分要拜託教育部積極的規劃跟處理接下來另外一個事情我要一併來談運動部要成立了可是還有很多體育現場的傷痕沒有被處理喔"},{"start":10144.225,"end":10170.044,"text":"部長直到我要上台之前我剛剛已經確認過在松山高中的網頁上這一位黃萬龍老師過去有體罰打小孩耳光的經驗的這一個老師他現在依然掛在松山高中的網站上他是學校的體育老師很多事情都還沒有處理部長我知道你一直都說要依法辦理喔那我相信等一下部長你一定也會承諾我要依法辦理可是我想要積極的提出來這個事件不是短期事件它有過去非常多歷史脈絡我積極的要求教育部要在一個月內"},{"start":10173.687,"end":10194.351,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案件的前後脈絡與相關處理的過程到底發生了什麼事情然後為什麼到現在這個打小孩耳光的老師他竟然還在松山高中掛在網站上所以我今天的訴求我希望可以準時結束我希望所有運動部的成立是全民的期待但是相關的組織設計業務分工我認為我們要有更多的討論跟來回應社會的期待還有相關學校的體育團隊爭議事件我認為教育部在運動部成立之前"},{"start":10203.212,"end":10226.668,"text":"就應該要積極的獨立調查小組貫徹體罰暴力領導人的政策宣誓時間有限可不可以請部長簡單回應一下謝謝我想謝謝委員的一個支持運動部有感謝未來這一個委員當然有許多創新的一些想法我想是不是能夠一併等到我們主條討論的時候跟研版一起來討論另外第二個就是有關對許多這一個"},{"start":10227.328,"end":10243.795,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 運動教練或者一些對學生的一些不適當的這些體滑我想暴力零容忍體滑零容忍這是我們既定政策我們一定會在委員的這一個期待的一個時間內跟委員做一個整個調查具體的"},{"start":10244.335,"end":10244.715,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":10272.495,"end":10273.896,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":10300.509,"end":10329.594,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件,除此之外,許多選手在他還沒有機會站上那個舞台之前,他可能就因為過度訓練、體罰等等,不管不僅是他的身體受到傷害,他的信心受到傷害,而折損了他的選手生涯。所以這件事情其實我也是想要呼籲培育委員講的這件事情,我們必須要更積極的去來面對跟處理。那這件事情我想要講的就是我們是不是可以從教練證,抱歉還沒打開。"},{"start":10331.732,"end":10339.137,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":10356.087,"end":10375.322,"text":"但事實上我們雖然有要求教練要回訓,可是事實上到底回訓有多少?這個監督的事,監督,協會真的有在監督嗎?以我自己來說好了,我小孩練足球,我想部長跟署長都非常清楚,我在足球看了這麼多教練,我真的很少看到教練去回訓。"},{"start":10376.203,"end":10379.165,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具 «體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具"},{"start":10393.437,"end":10406.364,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具:「運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函及文化委員會等19人發展部組織法草案．一）運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函及文化委員會等19人發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函及文化委員會等19人發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函及文化委員會等19人發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函及文化委員會等19人發"},{"start":10420.652,"end":10441.682,"text":"教練證統一交由中央來發證跟管理。」這件事情我還想再講一個案例。就是說,前陣子我出了一個極限協會的案例。這個極限協會的教練他有這個性平事件,然後後來也有一些裁罰。但是呢,當時他是有形式上面的裁罰。"},{"start":10443.223,"end":10444.043,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．第1次聯席會議"},{"start":10462.088,"end":10462.288,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":10475.83,"end":10501.087,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個所有的這個青少年或者兒少的這個運動的一些權益跟維護那我想剛才看到委員所提的那個流程其實他是一個不錯的一個想法那以目前來講確實有部分是由體育署來發展有部分是更多的是由單項因為他確實在整個體制規模上那我們怎麼樣去做一個更完善的一個規劃我想會後我們的內部再來"},{"start":10503.148,"end":10520.163,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 請體育署來跟各單項協會來看因為我相信維護青少年跟兒少的許多的運動權益這是大家共同認可的價值這是一定要做的我們怎麼樣在整個機制整個機制裡邊找到一個大家"},{"start":10521.084,"end":10543.71,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,包括單項協會都應該要承擔,如果他自己發證,他必須要承擔相對的一些責任。我想部長我的訴求,我的版本啦,我是希望可以來支持都由中央來統一發證跟管理啦,因為現在就變成是由單項協會來處理的時候,有時候時間就是很漫長。那我覺得這個部長你可以再回去討論思考一下。那另外也是希望就是說因為其實我們現在未來會有運產"},{"start":10546.431,"end":10547.691,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案 案 案 案 案 案"},{"start":10573.002,"end":10578.101,"text":"這也是運動部成立後要做的一個重要的工作之一。」"},{"start":10578.766,"end":10606.066,"text":"好謝謝喔那再來就是說我們剛還是講就是競技運動應該要透過社區俱樂部來向下扎根但是我想部長你應該跟署長都非常清楚的知道我們現在的場地就是非常不足而且非常的單一所以我是希望說我們是不是可以來去就是讓學校的場地開放大家來使用讓社區的俱樂部可以進去來使用這個部分是不是也可以來積極的協助呢"},{"start":10607.767,"end":10633.069,"text":"建設一些相關的辦法。」我們實際上委員所關心的也正是我們教育部跟體育組織目前在推動的。我們希望也在今年的7月的全國的教育局處所長會議裡邊由教育部跟這個我個人跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們都有共同聯署他們願意這個承諾各縣市的學校中小學的這一個校園能夠開放給社區來運動來實現。"},{"start":10635.691,"end":10639.615,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":10651.186,"end":10653.327,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案件,並且擬具《體育暨運動部組織法草案》案件,並且擬具"},{"start":10680.535,"end":10691.337,"text":"運動部組織法草案案件事項,則無法進入,所以這部分是不是也可以做一個整個場地跟需求的盤點?謝謝委員提醒,我們一定會朝著這一個方向來努力。好,謝謝。好,謝謝張委員,謝謝部長,謝謝署長。接下來有請吳委員春晨發言。主席,好,謝謝。"},{"start":10709.879,"end":10710.179,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":10726.171,"end":10748.059,"text":"因為部長也非常支持第三人生大學我在外面聽到了幾個大學校長都說部長施理夏跟他們講很支持我跟他講說他也跟我講說他很支持他們說他跟你講的不算數那在立法院講的東西都不算數"},{"start":10749.58,"end":10765.955,"text":"但是他們私底下講的就是表示這個部長是真心的支持來推動這絕對是好事包括今天剛剛也是我跟那個中召委我要講他不讓我講說他有很重要的活動"},{"start":10767.116,"end":10767.516,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":10789.009,"end":10799.036,"text":"實際包括行政立法我們其實包括在這裡質詢包括其實也做很多溝通都是希望幫助行政部門一起做好事"},{"start":10800.353,"end":10826.773,"text":"OK好所以呢本席呢這個在這一次今年我們有很好的戰績參加奧運所以我也到左營一起去加油一起去加油他們的要出發的時候然後在這一個領養配的時候因為我也是領口人所以在這裡辦了一個加油當天的加油讓我深深的感受到哇這真的是一個全民運動"},{"start":10827.694,"end":10847.44,"text":"我那一天借了省武大學的體育館然後辦了一個那個這個因為李洋是林口子弟所以我在那邊辦了一個來的一千多人提供啤酒一起為了歡呼所以這個是凌拒凌拒這個全民共識非常好的一件事情"},{"start":10849.199,"end":10863.748,"text":"這一次我也提出了體育部的修法的版本重點在於競技運動要全民化因為全民化我們可以領選到更多更優秀的選手"},{"start":10865.109,"end":10878.089,"text":"但是要支撐這一個要有一個很好的生態所以要有全民運動來支撐這麼大的一個產業這麼多的選手需要靠整個社會的重視來支撐"},{"start":10881.075,"end":10903.309,"text":"現在特別是我一直在提高齡化社會的來臨我們的平均的愚民不斷的在增加但是我們的不健康愚民也一直在增加重要的運動就是很重要的解放所以這一點其實也不要說這個都是一定是衛福部的事情"},{"start":10905.6,"end":10932.382,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件,為何接下來體育部應該要把這個也納入在這個政策思考?市長我想全民運動就是說這次成立一個全新的運動部其實很重要的一個核心概念就是希望過去的我們比較重視競技運動沒有錯但是希望從競技運動裡面慢慢的全民化全民運動全民運動的很重要的目標就是促進國民健康"},{"start":10932.802,"end":10934.323,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":10951.713,"end":10973.72,"text":"但是其實我們現在運動風氣是不錯但是可以看一般的運動現況調查一般民眾平常在做的這些運動的前五名走路是第一個站到一半以上再來就是慢跑然後爬山"},{"start":10975.126,"end":10991.836,"text":"自行車、在家健身這前五個那這前五個當然也是運動不過可以看得出來都沒有政府的角色也就叫做自求多福自求多福運動政府只關心選手這些全民運動自求多福那對於這樣子的一個"},{"start":11003.222,"end":11024.907,"text":"對我想剛才部長也有講就是說其實我們希望那個全民運動運動經濟全民化很重要一個核心概念就是希望我們的運動環境能夠改善過去只有俱樂部只有一個區的運動中心是不夠的所以現在讓學校的一些運動環境能改善其實委員所提的這五項我也幾乎都是除了自行車以外我幾乎也是用在運動你也要靠自己"},{"start":11025.527,"end":11026.447,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、"},{"start":11050.236,"end":11051.717,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":11079.912,"end":11080.432,"text":"發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":11099.588,"end":11121.743,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 包括明年的世壯運就是一個推動壯世代運動非常好的機會還有幾個月的時間是不是可以請體育署加把勁我跟署長溝通了很多次但是不曉得就半途而廢後來我不曉得你們怎麼進行了所以OK我最後一句話"},{"start":11122.983,"end":11145.027,"text":"這句話就是可不可以體育署重視壯世代的運動特別利用世壯運把帶動的全民運動既然也算是給體育署的一個賀禮嘛開始的鋪展出去不要只把當作是雙北的事情中央都不管可不可以沒有錯他不但是他就是世壯運我相信會帶來台灣壯年運動的"},{"start":11148.288,"end":11148.808,"text":"貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易"},{"start":11175.008,"end":11175.509,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":11201.417,"end":11224.888,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一個分工基本上學校裡邊的所有的教學是教育部負責那學校以外的所有的場館所有的專業這個選訓或者比賽國際的運動賽這全部都是由運動部來負責那學校裡面的場館學校裡面學手的比如說運動班學生的培訓是誰在負責的"},{"start":11227.202,"end":11227.822,"text":"暨運動部組織法草案 案。"},{"start":11254.024,"end":11274.814,"text":"體育班競技的教育嗎?跟委員報告目前簡單來講就是說馬照跑舞照跳這一個部分我們在分工上是合作的也就是說原來的體育署對學校的教育這一塊的一個不管場館或者運動選手或者一些國際競技上的一個補助本來就在體育署"},{"start":11275.394,"end":11276.054,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":11298.786,"end":11299.086,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":11317.27,"end":11318.251,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":11343.012,"end":11344.513,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查"},{"start":11365,"end":11391.853,"text":"除了我們包委員除了我們有一個專責的體育團特定體育團體的一個輔導的機制跟組別之外我們那未來是誰來負責單項協會運動部的部分是還是有運動部來負責運動部的哪一個單位下面會有競技運動是這邊來負責但是呢就是說未來我們是不想過去不想過度的介入他的那個協會的自治但是呢未來我們針對我們我們補助的經費的部分我會比較強力的去做監督但是過去也都有補助啊"},{"start":11392.273,"end":11392.653,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":11408.962,"end":11409.322,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":11431.442,"end":11436.827,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事宜,我們現在是直接要求他。我是認為評比啦對於各個單項協會的評比還有這個補助你們真的在深層層運動部之後真的就像你講的態度要轉變但是這一個如何讓他能夠有一個SOP出來然後去強力做執行我相信啦"},{"start":11450.279,"end":11451.26,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 。接下來請霍元坤齊發言。"},{"start":11484.484,"end":11503.005,"text":"主席請部長和署長請部長和署長謝謝委員好國家要成立體育部這是一個大事情雖然今天主席才是本委會只有6分鐘的時間我們本席還是盡量來問好不好這是國家的大事"},{"start":11504.587,"end":11530.884,"text":"我們明年開始這個體育部要掛牌八月份嘛是嗎是好那現在預算是大概兩百億四百人因為還沒有成立所以我們這個1月4年的預算的編列大概有158億158億所以跟現在體育署的預算差多少錢今年大概跟今年大概多了20億多"},{"start":11533.365,"end":11557.478,"text":"掛牌有這麼急嗎?人也沒準備錢也沒準備就要掛牌。宣誓意義大於實質意義就是了。倉促上陣跟完備以後再上路會不會更好?我想很多的一個組織的發展他提醒就...好可以沒問題本席是支持體育部的成立本席只是提醒你謝謝"},{"start":11559.83,"end":11579.169,"text":"竟然要做,就要做好。不要只是在口號。兩百億算夠嗎?我們逐步在隨著組織跟任務,我們希望在2026來朝那個目標來努力。哪一個目標?就兩百億。兩百億夠嗎?"},{"start":11581.844,"end":11607.35,"text":"目前應該因為我們在未來的運動那個部長看起來是還沒有準備好本席問的問題你都莫衷於是本席提醒你要成立一個體育部關係到全民的健康210不夠的提醒你一下終於算是3兆4千億堂堂一個關係全民的體育一個體育部210不夠的本席先提醒你再過來"},{"start":11609.916,"end":11638.579,"text":"運動習慣和運動方法是非常非常重要古今中外所有這些成功人士有人類史上成功人士幾乎年輕的時候都是運動員所以有他強堅的耐力以及適度的能夠來釋放壓力所以體育是非常重要的一個國家的強大必須啊強總強根做起所以體育是非常非常重要尤其"},{"start":11642.591,"end":11662.237,"text":"運動員一讓而生下而隱其爭也君子運動家的精神非常重要所以本席希望運動部是有高度期待而且必須請部長全力以赴不要含含糊糊兩百億是不夠的你給本席一份書面兩百億要做什麼東西"},{"start":11664.522,"end":11665.465,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":11673.781,"end":11701.221,"text":"現在補助金額大概啦比方說辦一個年度的全中運需要場館整理需要3億我們過去都大概補助大概1億左右嘛是不是所以啊本席建議你未來的全中運全大運還有這個全民運要各縣市打破頭真相來辦不是體育署挨家戶沿街拖泊拜託大家來辦沒有人要辦"},{"start":11704.259,"end":11723.55,"text":"行政院函採訪委員會主席鄙熙當過縣市首長所以很清楚告訴你大家都推照理講這是全民的好事情沒有人要辦為什麼沒有人要辦要拿自己的縣市預算出來所以本席在這裡建議未來用評選要大家來爭取"},{"start":11725.031,"end":11728.694,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具"},{"start":11743.092,"end":11763.491,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,我想這也是一個不錯的一個方式。好,謝謝。再過來以後就以後體育部或者是教育部就不用沿街拖拖拜託各縣市,大家爭相排隊來爭取,爭其鬥焰。好不好?這國家的體育才是真正受到重視。"},{"start":11764.71,"end":11765.731,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":11781.737,"end":11809.576,"text":"人才培育 如何善用現有資源如果有需要我想我們不排斥你們盡快跟體育部綁在一起來考慮這個問題好不好離家近就近來訓練培育選手他的心理素質他的寄託會更好好不好再過來運動員為何而戰為自己而戰是為國而戰為國爭光除了自己的榮耀以外為誰而戰"},{"start":11812.578,"end":11840.439,"text":"運動員我們要怎麼樣去培養他們未來不只要能夠在國內能夠而且這個最希望能夠在國際能夠為台灣來爭光但是這些不管是過去的什麼金龍哨棒這些世界冠軍的哨棒隊這些運動員最後呢過去當什麼當什麼清潔隊員等等等等無疾而終抑鬱而終當教練的少之又少"},{"start":11841.32,"end":11868.243,"text":"本席在這裡對體育部有高度的期許要為國家爭光這些體育人才、得獎的、奪牌的這些人才必須考慮終身照護要把制度建立起來。OK?謝謝委員提醒我們會支持。再過來。欸!旁邊啊!不要那麼快嘛!再過來。我們一定啊!要把運動賽事"},{"start":11871.052,"end":11884.717,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案 與我們的經濟是要綁在一起的。把運動員跟國家資源跟企業還有國際品牌把它全部綁在一起來,這個資源才會豐沛。為了體育部必須要這麼做,比方說F1賽車,國際的馬拉松,國際的這個自行車賽,還有國際的電競大賽,這都把它讓台灣不只是觀光島,"},{"start":11897.082,"end":11897.602,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":11918.88,"end":11926.851,"text":"我想這個問題我想我們現在目前所有的團隊就是努力把提部長腰桿要挺直啦"},{"start":11928.035,"end":11929.396,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":11955.606,"end":11968.44,"text":"法律部長林玉婷奧運金牌在國際上受到污蔑是不是應該為她爭一個公道賴總統下令要爭取公道打國際輸送你們做到沒有?做了沒有?"},{"start":11969.98,"end":11975.726,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「體育暨運動法草案 案件,其中一人擬具"},{"start":11991.936,"end":12017.743,"text":"實際上我們在巴黎也開了記者會這是國家的運動員拿到奧運金牌所有這樣的侮辱是不是我們國家應該硬起來賴總統都講話你們做到什麼當時我們就在這個巴黎就開了記者會很簡單賴總統講的現在就請您因為川普先生再度說男變女的事情請教育部要發聲"},{"start":12019.383,"end":12019.803,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":12036.457,"end":12037.117,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":12054.246,"end":12069.114,"text":"謝謝部長也謝謝委員先處理會議時間上午會議時間繼續進行至所有登記發言委員詢答結束及討論事項提案條文宣讀完畢為止接下來請吳委員配議發言"},{"start":12077.634,"end":12085.226,"text":"謝謝主席我請體育署署長以及全序部法規司司長請政署長以及司長委員好"},{"start":12089.147,"end":12117.161,"text":"我先請教一下師長因為我剛剛前面聽到幾位立委的詢問其中黃國昌委員他相當質疑因為我們今天是進行法規的詢答體育部要成立要先有法規他今天說我們今天在審法規你的預算跟原額怎麼都沒有拿過來怎麼沒有提供給委員參考請問一下全序部我們是不是體育部我們要修法要先有母法才可以編預算才有人事原額是不是這個樣子"},{"start":12119.805,"end":12133.214,"text":"委員報告,因為全區部主管的是組織法規的合議。預算和緣額,緣額是行政院人事先總署的權限。這你的權責範圍你的了解呢?我們這邊如果負責全區審定的話,全區審定人員當然要有組織法規做依據。"},{"start":12141.104,"end":12168.315,"text":"暨運動部組織法草案案 案 。接下來我請問署長前面很多委員都相當的關心因為體育部我們要成立了這一件事情民間討論許久是全民期待的所以我們今天其實處理的法規的詢答其實只有六法未來還有兩個法律還要再修總共我們一共要修八條的這個法規才有辦法來成立體育部其中我們還要有全民運動所"},{"start":12169.776,"end":12170.156,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":12178.305,"end":12179.485,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":12201.014,"end":12229.128,"text":"因為在我們目前你們的院版你們的部的版本跟我自己提案的版本裡面都有包含提到了全民運動裡面我們有兒少運動我們有青年體育我們有社區體育我們也有新興體育過去以來我一直相當關心的就是街舞以及霹靂舞那尤其霹靂舞因為納入了奧運的賽事所以呢我們所有全台灣的街舞人街舞在台灣的發展已經要超過20年了"},{"start":12230.809,"end":12232.23,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件"},{"start":12260.066,"end":12260.927,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":12280.387,"end":12300.302,"text":"但是他對棒球非常的有興趣家長也非常支持利用週末的時間在打社區棒球這些都叫做全民運動所以我們相當的期盼我們要透過修法的處理立運動部之後全民運動必須要他有更重要的重視然後相關的預算相關的這個支持都應該要出來"},{"start":12301.964,"end":12315.114,"text":"所以這個絕對不是競技運動跟全民運動之間這個是加成的關係所以我們才要加上預算加上人事嘛所以我今天請問署長運動部成立之後我們對於競技體育的預算會不會減少"},{"start":12316.308,"end":12322.452,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":12334.701,"end":12335.221,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":12352.328,"end":12357.993,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 但他們是我們國家太優秀的人才了,倘若可以繼續來投入我們的運動產業甚至來培育其他的運動產業人才,這都是我們國家的資產,而你現在運動產業行政法人有沒有預計要徵聘多少人?"},{"start":12367.842,"end":12375.289,"text":"組織法草案案 案件 及行政法人在針對比較多元的專業人才方面以及我們運動員經營動員等等我們其實都會把他納入這也是為什麼要有這樣的一個組織法的條文那目前人數當然我們沒有辦法現在做太多的預估但是我們行政法人我們預估是希望能夠達到將近80到100人之間但是就是會有增聘人"},{"start":12391.203,"end":12391.783,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":12413.413,"end":12431.502,"text":"但民間的運動外交也很重要。」這個署長能不能說明一下?報告委員我們運動外交它分兩個層面第一個當然是我們國際運動是這部分會繼續來做那我們會善用行政法人特別我們在駐外或者是整個的運動外交的部分我們希望保持一個彈性好但是也是會來做一定會有"},{"start":12432.483,"end":12432.903,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":12450.111,"end":12454.192,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案。我發現了幾大問題第一個我們目前的運動的文物可能重要賽事重要選手相關文物分散在各個機關甚至可能民間然後我們的權責不清保存的人才過去是不夠專業所以現在已經入法我覺得非常重要我希望運動部部長也在要就台灣的運動文化記憶保存要做妥善的規劃"},{"start":12476.698,"end":12476.918,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案。"},{"start":12508.593,"end":12524.46,"text":"現在我代主席,我們請鍾嘉斌委員質詢。主席、在場委員、先進列席的政務局、央事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士先生。有請我們鄭部長。請鄭部長。"},{"start":12531.994,"end":12560.114,"text":"委員好部長好今天一上午主持會議讓我最驚豔的就是對於即將成立的運動部部長不減雄心壯志不排除未來也來擔任運動部的部長是這樣嗎?不排除嗎?只有這個可能嗎?跟委員報告我想這一個我們就把事情做好因為剛才因為委員指名好幾個不要讓他們為難是是是那假設未來你是運動部長你自己有興趣的是哪個項目?"},{"start":12561.892,"end":12574.223,"text":"總是有個項目吧?我其實從年輕一直有多項的運動哪一項?你比較?我玩帆船、我打桌球、網球、籃球、棒球、排球、手球"},{"start":12578.413,"end":12580.314,"text":"體育和教育有什麼關聯?"},{"start":12610.265,"end":12631.876,"text":"體育跟教育簡單講簡單來講就就同委員講的我們這一個體育體育他其實不是只是一個運動他當然對身他除了有運動以外他也有一些教育的一個手段教育的一些內涵元素裡面譬如說包括健康包括營養包括什麼那運動呢運動是什麼"},{"start":12637.808,"end":12640.04,"text":"運動 追求成就,可以消愁解悶。」"},{"start":12641.901,"end":12666.869,"text":"這是一個好很好那我想今天我們來做一些基本的探索我這邊列了八項今天可能大家談到問題往上上一頁其實我想要關心的就是體育教育跟體育的關聯其實大家也在委員要關心說運動跟教育的差異以及體育組原本在教育部下的角色和功能還有未來運動部成立之後和教育部的分工關係是不是今天很多委員都集中在這四點"},{"start":12669.372,"end":12670.733,"text":"運動教練與體育教師的差異,你覺得教練跟體育老師有什麼差別?"},{"start":12691.909,"end":12715.302,"text":"有可能對另外我也關心說在學的選手和他在學校的關係另外我們也談到說教練的權益和保障以及未來的考評是不是這樣今天很多委員關心到說在學選手的學習權利以及運動生涯的發展好以下這四個項目主委來跟你請教往下看好再往下看其實這我們提到了"},{"start":12716.303,"end":12731.997,"text":"球員轉隊遭禁賽是因為惡意挖角為什麼會有這個項目呢?比如說A縣市的國小選手因為雙親在B縣市工作他畢業後呢就到B縣市的國中結果就因為這樣的關係被禁賽兩年署長你剛剛來了署長有這樣的情況嗎?"},{"start":12733.459,"end":12752.448,"text":"法務委員我們國小的部分這學期開始已經解除已經解除了好那如果就讀A高中他跟假教練一起結果假教練的轉到B高中所以呢B高中的這個選手要跟去B高中到高了這個選手會被禁賽署長這個情況怎麼解決法務委員這部分我們是由高中體總組織組成一個那個審查的委員會由這個委員會去針對個案來做一個審查"},{"start":12757.891,"end":12776.041,"text":"來部長我這就用這個例子讓你知道為什麼我們重視在學選手跟學校的關係因為選手本身跟教練非常密切他的職業他的運動上的發展跟他的學習是兩個路線因此他為了運動生涯他可能會去改變他的學校的學習路徑你同意這個部分以後做個檢討嗎"},{"start":12777.506,"end":12797.354,"text":"我認為是因為包含這一次的運動部我們希望從社區裡邊我們學校裡邊的運動因為他確實有的小學他打桌球結果他國中的時候他因為社區的國中沒有桌球對我了解所以我認為請部長未來在所謂的在學選手跟學校關係是我們會整體的"},{"start":12798.114,"end":12798.835,"text":"發展部組織法草案．事由運動部組織法草案來發落嗎?"},{"start":12816.637,"end":12840.129,"text":"報委員是的那這都會影響到他的年度考核以及他的年度計劃的寫金額都會影響到好那另外呢繼續問下去齁在役的選手他申請轉任教練的預算執行率偏低部長請你看一下過去體育署在我們教育部之下從19年到113年他的這個執行率啊轉任教練的執行率偏低那請問部長"},{"start":12840.669,"end":12858.193,"text":"教育部組織法草案案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運動部組織法草案件事由運"},{"start":12864.386,"end":12868.059,"text":"教練執行率偏低,那麼選手轉學遭禁賽,這個標準請您研議來放寬好嗎?"},{"start":12871.6,"end":12900.84,"text":"這我們來努力來研議所以你答應當運動部長了嘛謝謝你鼓掌長最後我們最後一個結論所以請你通盤檢討各單項體育協會監督部長的弊病運動部應該投入資源來解決長期的問題那也請未來通盤檢討在役選手申請轉任教練的相關規定以配合在學選手生涯規劃來檢討那另外對於惡意挖角的處分應該處分惡意挖角的學校教練不應該讓學生來承擔後果尤其最後一項你現在擔任教育部長就可以承諾可以嗎"},{"start":12902.421,"end":12903.722,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":12939.643,"end":12942.007,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":12955.017,"end":12978.846,"text":"委員好部長好好所以我們只有6分鐘齁好我快速的問一下齁我想這個單向協會的這個爭議不斷啦那運動部是不是真的能夠升格帶來一些解方齁其實我們也非常樂見也非常的期待啦齁那我想呢最近大家都在關心就是我們的棒球的部分那昨天其實也發生了一個小小的插曲齁就是棒協的部分其實"},{"start":12979.506,"end":12980.367,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":13002.819,"end":13009.281,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函安琪等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函安琪等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函安琪等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函安琪等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函安琪等19人擬具:「體育暨運動"},{"start":13024.404,"end":13032.85,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":13042.037,"end":13048.242,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一、併案審查厲寶等19人擬具:「運動部組織法草案．事由．一、併案審查厲寶等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一、併案審查厲寶等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一、併案審查厲寶等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一、併案審查厲寶等19人擬具:「體育暨運動"},{"start":13059.89,"end":13064.875,"text":"運動部組織法草案案件事件不斷傳出體育署現在是不是應該要根據他們考核的結果來決定我們這個補貼的一個補助的一個金額才能夠讓整個所有的領選的制度更加的透明還有在財務上能夠更加的穩健但這個部分我們想體育署的輔導跟考核的制度"},{"start":13083.912,"end":13090.635,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件事宜,在過去我們聽到這麼多的這個所謂的單項協會傳出來的這些爭議,這些考核的機制似乎等於虛設欸,這個部分。謝謝委員提醒,也謝謝委員關心,這一個怎麼樣讓優秀的選手能夠代表這個國家能夠出賽,讓單項協會的的運作能夠更符合社會正義,也真正能夠從專業考量為國家爭取最大的一個榮譽。"},{"start":13113.726,"end":13114.066,"text":"事務委員楊瓊瓊等21人擬具"},{"start":13143.866,"end":13144.226,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":13162.799,"end":13188.526,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 全台灣所有國人都在看。另外我想要提到的就是我們的國內的場地到底有沒有達標。就是我們的場地的訓練選手的場地或是讓他們練習甚至於我們可以舉辦一些跟國際賽事相關的一些場地到底有沒有符合標準。根據這個2023年7月他出去我國申辦亞運"},{"start":13190.927,"end":13201.873,"text":"運動場的一個場館的一個部件的一個策略報告深班亞運其實需要多方面的一些條件但是其中我們發現11個運動的場館當中並不符合國際的賽事其中有3個場館他們願意在整修過後可能要達到這個標準但另外其實有8個項目其實是不合格的"},{"start":13212.299,"end":13239.353,"text":"合格的項目其實都有可能會影響到我們在培訓不管是國手或者是我們真的要提升我們自己本身的競爭力或者是要讓更多的國際賽事讓我們台灣的選手能夠更加的有適應適應這樣子的場地他出國之後去比賽他才能夠有這樣子的一個競爭力那這個部分我們光是在我們的場地沒有達標的部分這個要怎麼解套"},{"start":13241.938,"end":13270.274,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一）公共建設計劃、行政院支持下有投入許多協助,如輕艇激流、伊朗安隆西設置人工賽道符合比賽規範等,此部分一直在滾動式修正。但我們當然希望從永續的方向來看,美國主要賽事不一定要有專屬場館,它可以用大的空間的場館去改裝,像這次法國,就很多現有的場館來改裝就可以進行國際賽事。我們不希望"},{"start":13270.854,"end":13271.775,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":13299.189,"end":13299.529,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":13323.74,"end":13328.242,"text":"實現黃金計劃或淺油計劃,原則上我們是起頭是一個金額,但是我們每個運動種類他的需求都不一樣,每個選手他的需要,他的比賽環境,他出國比賽,所有的培訓等等,需求都是不一樣,而且是差距非常大,所以"},{"start":13338.905,"end":13340.446,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":13364.46,"end":13365.34,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案。"},{"start":13393.764,"end":13419.078,"text":"部長辛苦了我剛才聽說您要爭取擔任體育部部長這是主席開玩笑開玩笑對啊為了教育我想您才那個剛到教育部我們要那個積極留下您雖然運動部也很重要那我想今天其實我比較想問的是運動部不應該只是體育署的2.0那我相信你們有非常多的願景所以我想就幾個問題來請教您"},{"start":13422.34,"end":13422.74,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案"},{"start":13437.206,"end":13451.01,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具:「運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具 «體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第1會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具 «體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第1會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具"},{"start":13460.093,"end":13480.19,"text":"組織架構來看我其實沒有看出如何強化全民運動因為我看所有的這個組織內容其實除了多了綜合規劃司適應運動司之外那多出來的是國家運動產業發展中心那部長可不可以簡單講一下這個全民運動如何透過你這個組織架構來完成呢"},{"start":13483.08,"end":13483.4,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":13500.009,"end":13500.81,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":13517.825,"end":13518.325,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":13533.53,"end":13560.641,"text":"實際上我們全民運動不只是為了競技可以做得更好以台灣的國力我們競技這幾年已經突破很多了教育部我們也知道花了非常多的資源跟心力在這我們王振旭醫師待會也會質詢他應該是從健康的角度我非常的認同全民運動還有一個重要的目標是健康不管是對我們的健保或是對我們的國民的福祉的話都很重要"},{"start":13561.161,"end":13561.401,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":13578.155,"end":13592.863,"text":"實際上我們知道競技項目我們女選手做得非常的不錯嘛對不對就得牌我們這次看到這麼多的奧運的得牌都是女性那這次巴黎奧運的50-50也有達到可是我們看一下國人規律運動"},{"start":13594.264,"end":13595.525,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":13611.756,"end":13612.936,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":13641.069,"end":13650.974,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":13668.322,"end":13684.06,"text":"家庭組成是男女共同分擔責,而不是說女生扛大部分的責任。其實根本給部長看一個右邊的新聞,你看我們民間新聞是小孩交給Wordstream,最放心家長盡情運動去。"},{"start":13685.842,"end":13686.522,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":13713.507,"end":13714.167,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":13743.507,"end":13743.847,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":13755.716,"end":13756.657,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":13777.807,"end":13779.268,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事"},{"start":13803.723,"end":13833.135,"text":"教育部姓平做得非常好過去潘部長也非常努力可是我要講的是教育部有一塊一直做得不好就是體育署我們不斷地在接陳情案就是相關的教練跟環境非常沒有人權跟姓平的觀念那我希望教育部那不管您是不是運動部長我想未來的運動部不應該只有升格人力和預算整個觀念也要從我們建立的過程中就非常清楚的明示好嗎"},{"start":13833.595,"end":13834.698,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":13858.124,"end":13873.317,"text":"主席各位委員有請部長還有體育署署長請部長和署長請委員好部長好還有署長好我先請教一下體育署署長"},{"start":13874.93,"end":13890.243,"text":"現在體育署有沒有原住民的人員在體育署有有幾位既有原住民身份的這個我記不得對不起不記得對不起這部分我數據沒有掌握是有嗎應該是有應該是有是不確定"},{"start":13893.706,"end":13895.387,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":13914.246,"end":13915.227,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":13941.8,"end":13945.081,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一）運動部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":13966.766,"end":13994.086,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 及相關這個未來要成立的這個國家運動訓練中心包括這個運動部全民運動署本席都有提出這個修正的一個新訂的條文新訂或者是修正條文所以這個這裡面特別明訂就是要訂一定的比例比如說這個"},{"start":13995.538,"end":13996.579,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 規定規定規定規定規定"},{"start":14021.363,"end":14048.183,"text":"教育部及體育署及立委及人事行政總署支持。公務人員的部分本席也提出相當的一個比例。公務人員也許大家會說部長或署長會認為他們沒有公務人員的資格怎麼去禁用。事實上部長"},{"start":14050.103,"end":14056.605,"text":"行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案．一）體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）"},{"start":14071.408,"end":14072.929,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 。"},{"start":14096.744,"end":14097.245,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":14124.444,"end":14138.297,"text":"運動已經成為國人生活很重要的一部分,因此我們努力的來推動。我們的目標是要拼明年的8月份掛牌上路,是嗎?"},{"start":14139.398,"end":14140.099,"text":"產業發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":14155.722,"end":14175.219,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案件中的這三大元素本席要請教部長也就是運動部成立之後本席希望它不是只有一個升格而是要納入整個全新的想法思維來推動全民的運動所以本席想聽聽部長你認為要怎麼樣協助運動環境的一個升級請做說明"},{"start":14180.051,"end":14207.021,"text":"我想確實感謝委員的一個關心跟支持確實怎麼樣有一個全民更友善的一個運動環境這就是我們運動部第一個要考量的因為當全民能夠維持一個這個定期這個有效的一個運動的時候身體就健康我們其實是常態性的一個運動這時候他就能夠有更好的一個健康身心"},{"start":14207.421,"end":14235.892,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,我相信不僅是對家庭對工作對整個許多的一些發展都是一個正面的。我們的目標是共同一致的免利一定要落實。那我們看到一部一署三中心在這樣的一個情況之下有諮詢委員在諮詢小組裡頭提到我們現在所規劃的它只是一個扁平性的一個組織那這種類別相對的也就是說容易造成責任"},{"start":14237.013,"end":14237.916,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":14241.395,"end":14241.875,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案 。"},{"start":14267.295,"end":14294.742,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件提出的扁平式的沒有辦法去落實權限跟責任這一點也請我們實際的討論的時候也請你們的看法提供給本席好那也順便資料給本席那最後一個議題就是說總統說台灣要這個走出去世界要走進來也就是用運動外交的網絡這一點是非常非常的重要而且可以幫助我們台灣非常重要而且鼓勵我們體育呢"},{"start":14296.843,"end":14297.844,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件事項案件事項案件事項"},{"start":14319.381,"end":14335.649,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 整個這個運動部要如何的來呼應我們社會的需求尤其這個用運動來這個外交網絡這一點是非常的 nice 所以請教部長您的方向呢"},{"start":14336.358,"end":14338.999,"text":"事務委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":14365.365,"end":14366.906,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":14395.646,"end":14396.587,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":14412.932,"end":14441.703,"text":"體育發展部組織法草案案案件,我們國家的體育被很多的體育協會把持著。所以長期以來有很多人就是開始詬病,甚至都是由政壇的人物來擔任理事長。政壇人物擔任理事長之後他又會衍生一些資源扭曲、分配不公、一些黑箱作業的問題就一再的發生。這個在體育圈也是被非常多專業的運動員,大家都很有意見。"},{"start":14442.783,"end":14458.629,"text":"這段時間的運作我舉幾個例子像之前那個有一個葉耀文那個撐竿跳選手他曾經去參加青少年田徑錦標賽的時候就那個桿子沒有送到會場就他沒有桿子可以跳"},{"start":14460.169,"end":14472.102,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一、併案審查厲月奧運的時候那也一樣啊就是當時那個網球好手那謝淑薇退出比賽泰斯在那邊批評說非常多不公平的地方那2017的那個台北師大運那個"},{"start":14474.953,"end":14482.477,"text":"遊泳選手丁聖佑等國手名單黑箱作業,操弄比賽和領選規則。台灣到底還有什麼東西不能造假?體育這個東西應該是無國界,應該是一個全民熱愛的東西,但是卻有很多這個問題在裡面。首先請教署長,"},{"start":14497.671,"end":14503.334,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案件事項,可否避免類似的情況發生,例如政治人物把持的一些協會來干預政府組織的運作,有沒有辦法去避免?"},{"start":14512.839,"end":14542.106,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。其實我想在整個運動這些運動團體他們面臨的這些困境在過去其實癥結點還是在整個協會的幹部的專業程度的部分所以這部分我們當然未來成立運動部之後我們的人力以及那個我們的預算的部分能夠成長之後我們也特別有一個專責的一個單位來進行特定體育團體的輔導那針對他們的我們從今年去年今年開始已經針對他的會計人員這部分已經在做一個"},{"start":14542.466,"end":14544.827,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、併案審查一、"},{"start":14567.739,"end":14568.44,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":14587.12,"end":14602.448,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 令其他國家來笑話我們台灣原來政府這麼無能連這個都管不好所以要麻煩你們既然你們希望升格那你們要做到有效的管理好那我再請教一下我們的選手代表國家出賽"},{"start":14604.289,"end":14615.715,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制部長楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制部長楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制部長楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制部長楊瓊瓔等19人擬具:「體�"},{"start":14635.466,"end":14657.924,"text":"國民體育法21條規定上個會期有委員曾經提案就像您剛有突然講出有盈餘這三個字我們在施行細則把它改掉了這是一個核心問題那我這次就是要請教你這個部分因為之前的施行細則第7條確實是寫說有盈餘上個會期的時候有委員就提到說"},{"start":14658.724,"end":14661.768,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件事務委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":14675.487,"end":14701.327,"text":"合度考量並不是該有或不該有的這個認定標準嗎?當時你們好像是給我們回覆這樣對不對?報告委員基本上我們是說我們希望他算是他的成本之一就是說他今天舉辦賽事如果他今天拿了門票、廣告、媒體轉播等等這些贊助金他應該把選手的出賽費這個觀念把它列入他的成本而不是一個盈餘的概念來分享給選手"},{"start":14702.968,"end":14718.346,"text":"對,但是我們拿到教育部的報告是說他說這個東西確實有討論然後他也認為說應該支付這些代表隊出賽費維護選手權益至於有無盈餘是作為出賽費額度的考量"},{"start":14719.247,"end":14747.357,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 當時是這樣而且有承諾說在一一三年十月會修改後公告但是到昨天我去查了還是沒有改啊包括委員我們今天下午的部會議會把這個施行細則做討論以及希望能夠通過那等於你們還是因為你們當時是給立法院給我們的回覆是一一三年十月對但是現在已經十一月十三號我們今天下午會應該如果那這樣子就麻煩你們說到做到至少"},{"start":14748.217,"end":14751.559,"text":"行政院函請審議及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":14771.741,"end":14794.111,"text":"規定男子選手每人五千塊的出賽費,但女子選手只有三千塊,那我想瞭解一下這個差距是什麼?因為剛剛范雲委員也蠻重視男女的平權。議員已經討論過這不應該,基本上男女生在同樣性質同一場賽事出賽費就是應該一致。那你知道這件事嗎?我們知道,我們也要求他改正了,他也補發了,但是他的,基本上藍鞋這部分我們有做糾正了。"},{"start":14795.031,"end":14795.412,"text":"事務委員蔡英文"},{"start":14814.906,"end":14822.752,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,將來如果升格或是即使現在你們也是主管機關還是要去注意一下這些協會假單據核銷的問題就像那個這個問題其實一直是公開的一個秘密"},{"start":14832.018,"end":14852.233,"text":"法草案案案例發生,因為一直聽到很多人有這個反應,好不好,那這塊再麻煩你們多注意一下。好,謝謝吳昭偉,謝謝署長。接下來有請高金素梅委員,高金素梅,高金素梅我們不在,有請王委員正續發言。"},{"start":14864.213,"end":14869.822,"text":"謝謝主席有請教育部政部長體育署政署長有請部長及署長請"},{"start":14876.776,"end":14902.655,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制及教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制及教育及文化委員會的聯席要來審查運動部的組織法相關的法案那我其實也準備一些法案正在連署當中也希望能夠"},{"start":14903.596,"end":14932.419,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 實際上在2024年健康台灣元年的建言書裡面就提出健康台灣十大建言那第三點就是希望能夠注重營養培養運動習慣那我們知道這個是賴總統他希望能夠持續強調的所以他在主持健康台灣推動委員會的第一次的會議裡面針對八年八八八的計畫裡面八年八八八"},{"start":14933.978,"end":14937.149,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 規劃裡面能夠希望培養國人愛好運動的習慣"},{"start":14940.945,"end":14967.434,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 希望能夠具體落實未來民眾健康的這個部分那我們很期待這些落實有賴運動部成立以後可以逐步的加強那在教育部體育署新聞稿裡面也有提到成立運動部要推動的四大目標就明確的顯示提倡全民的運動增進國民健康這是未來要很明確要來執行的地方"},{"start":14973.978,"end":14998.177,"text":"實際上還是有很需要提升的空間我們發現經過調查國人沒有運動習慣的有17.4個百分比每週運動不到一次的有4.8個百分比所以加總起來就超過20%意思就是說國人五個人裡面其實就有一個並不是那麼樣對運動的這些執行是很落實的"},{"start":14998.977,"end":15015.139,"text":"所以針對運動組織法第一條我們希望運動部將促進健康的成立目標能夠明文入法以呼應賴總統的這方面的這個健康的政策那也希望增加推廣全民教育強調運動科學研究的重要跟需求"},{"start":15015.76,"end":15022.386,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「"},{"start":15039.702,"end":15066.908,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件事宜,我都是在照顧癌症病人,癌後的這些健康的民眾當中他們的運動強度跟一般民眾可能會就是不一樣的。所以我們很期待透過這些的問題希望能夠在現在院板的基礎上做徵修的條文。不知道部長或署長有什麼想法那是否同意將這些都可以把它納進來。"},{"start":15068.588,"end":15090.633,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,確實這個我們運動就希望他能夠健康,然後怎麼樣去因應不同的年齡階段,然後有不同的一個運動的一個方式。我想委員的一個建議是非常有價值,那是不是也能夠可以在等到我們主條討論的時候,在並驗版一起來討論,非常感謝。好,謝謝。好,謝謝王委員,謝謝部長跟署長。"},{"start":15092.244,"end":15107.383,"text":"好,所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者,請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本聯席會。"},{"start":15108.755,"end":15129.762,"text":"委員謝榮介所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆現在進行討論事項本日只僅進行提案條文宣讀請議事人員宣讀提案條文宣讀時間大約60分鐘宣讀時列席代表如有要功可自行斟酌離席請"},{"start":15134.236,"end":15148.838,"text":"討論事項第一案運動部組織法草案行政院提案名稱運動部組織法委員洪孟楷等鍾嘉斌等徐富奎等范雲等吳佩儀等林一景等提案名稱軍童行政院提案委員楊瓊瓔等"},{"start":15150.66,"end":15177.468,"text":"發展部組織法草案 及台灣民眾黨黨團委員羅廷維等提案名稱均為體育及運動發展部組織法行政院提案第一條行政院為辦理全國運動業務促進全民運動發展運動之教育競技產業與外交形塑運動文化並落實多元平權社會包容及永續發展之價值特赦運動部以下簡稱本部"},{"start":15177.988,"end":15199.74,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院為辦理國民之體育及運動參與權利保障、健全國內產業及環境推廣與其他國家之交流並強化全國體育運動發展業務特設運動發展部以下簡稱本部。ignty 委員楊瓊瓔等提案第一條對照委員洪孟楷等提案除默劇中"},{"start":15200.8,"end":15219.366,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 修正為體育及運動發展部外期御同委員洪孟楷等提案。 TALI（台灣民眾黨黨團提案第一條同委員楊瓊瓔等提案,委員鍾佳斌等提案第一條同行政院提案,委員羅廷英委等提案第一條行政院未辦理全國運動全國體育運動發展業務特設運動及特設體育及運動發展部以下簡稱本部。"},{"start":15227.915,"end":15246.506,"text":"委員徐富奎等范雲等提案第一條均同行政院提案委員吳佩義等提案第一條除中斷修正為促進全民運動保障選手與運動人才推廣運動外交使運動在教育競技產業各方面均能良好發展外其餘同行政院提案"},{"start":15248.086,"end":15251.809,"text":"運動政策與法規之研擬規劃推動管理及監督二身心條件性別族群區與社會經濟地位各面向多元運動平權之規劃推動輔導管理及監督"},{"start":15272.33,"end":15287.015,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．一、併案審查一、併案審查．一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。一、體育暨運動發展部組織法草案。"},{"start":15299.659,"end":15317.643,"text":"職業運動之輔導、運動文化記憶之保存及再現、運動彩券、運動發展基金多元資金益助、運動科學發展與創新應用之規劃推動管理及監督、六、國際運動事務交流與人才之培育、國際賽事籌辦、鼓勵運動人才參與國際運動組織之規劃推動管理及監督、"},{"start":15326.42,"end":15331.843,"text":"運動設施發展與運動場館之新整建及永續營運運動設施與場館之分齊統籌運用與友善運動環境之規劃推動管理及監督八、全國性運動團體業務健全發展與良善治理之促進及輔導相關機關構團體運動發展事項之協調"},{"start":15355.114,"end":15359.881,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 所屬機關辦理全民運動事項之督導使其他有關運動事項"},{"start":15362.54,"end":15375.489,"text":"委員洪孟楷等提案第二條本部長禮下列事項一、運動政策法制及人力之調之整合規劃落實與監督二、運動產業發展條例之規劃落實及獎補助事項三、全民運動之規劃執行及監督四、競技運動發展之規劃執行及監督五、國際及兩岸運動交流發展之規劃執行及監督"},{"start":15388.099,"end":15393.344,"text":"國際各賽事之偵辦規劃執行協調及督導地方政府運動政策之規劃執行及獎勵與補助職業運動之推動聯繫及協調事項運動產業之培植輔導及發展"},{"start":15407.538,"end":15422.375,"text":"實施國家運動訓練中心致輔導及監督十一其他有關體育及運動事項（委員楊瓊瓊等提案第二條同委員洪孟楷等提案（台灣民眾黨黨團提案第二條對照委員洪孟楷等提案,除增訂第三款及第四款為"},{"start":15430.263,"end":15433.387,"text":"運動財券運動發展基金之規劃執行督導及獎勵、獎註四）國家體育發展之規劃執行及督導"},{"start":15441.257,"end":15461.652,"text":"法律委員會第5款至第13款由委員洪孟楷等提案第三款至第11款條文第1並將11款條文中培植前增訂規劃等文字其餘同委員洪孟楷等提案委員宗嘉斌等提案第二條對照行政院提案逐第一款至第三款"},{"start":15464.273,"end":15484.611,"text":"條文管理及監督均修正為管理與監督。令第四款至第七款條文為四（競技運動發展與選手之培育選拔、獎勵、輔導、管理與監督。五（海洋山林及水域等自然環境推動、輔導及執行。六（運動產業發展與運動產業人才培育、運動文化記憶保存與再現。"},{"start":15492.378,"end":15517.678,"text":"職業運動人才培育發展訓練輔導推動及執行第八款遊行政院提案第五款後段條文第一並將具末的管理及監督修正為管理與監督第九款至第十三款遊行政院條文第六款至第十款條文第一並將第九款手續中的人才之培育之字刪除"},{"start":15518.953,"end":15547.001,"text":"第二巨中的籌辦修正委舉辦具末的管理及監督修正委管理與監督第十款首巨中新整建前增訂規劃等文字外其餘同行政院提案委員羅廷偉等提案第二條本部長禮下列事項依體育運動政策制度之綜合規劃法制研擬推動及督導"},{"start":15548.55,"end":15567.957,"text":"二）運動產業發展條例之規劃落實及將補助事項三）全民運動發展之綜合規劃推動及督導四）身心障礙者運動發展之綜合規劃推動及督導五）高齡運動發展之綜合規劃推動及督導六）學校體育發展之綜合規劃推動及督導七）經濟運動發展之綜合規劃推動及督導八）國際及兩岸運動交流發展之規劃推動及督導"},{"start":15578.063,"end":15592.654,"text":"運動部組織法草案．19國際各賽事之規劃推動、協調及督導、使地方政府運動政策之規劃推動、獎勵及補助、十一、職業運動之推動聯繫及協調事項、十二、運動產業之培植、輔導及發展、十三、運動設施之綜合規劃推動及督導、十四、國家運動訓練中心之輔導及監督、十五、其他有關體育運動事項、"},{"start":15609.847,"end":15634.705,"text":"委員徐富奎等及委員范雲等提案第二條軍統行政院提案委員吳佩義等提案第二條對照行政院提案除第一項第二款修正為二身心條件性別族群區域與社會經濟地位等各面向多元運動平權之規劃運動相關之兒少權益保障措施之推動輔導管理及監督"},{"start":15637.284,"end":15647.936,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 令第三款適應運動發展後面增訂及人才培育第五款至第七款條文為五（運動產業發展及運動產業人才之培育職業運動之輔導運動財券運動發展基金多元資金"},{"start":15654.924,"end":15680.451,"text":"目及益助六）運動文化記憶之保存及在線之規劃推動管理及監督七）運動科學發展與創新應用之規劃推動管理及監督第八款至第十款由行政院提案第六款至第八款條文遞疑並將第九款條文中新整件修正為新建規劃新辦整件"},{"start":15687.344,"end":15698.229,"text":"運動環境前增定良好二字具末的及監督前增定研究等文字。第十款首具末的促進及輔導修正為促進、輔導及督導。"},{"start":15705.046,"end":15730.652,"text":"第11促進新興運動項目之發展與所屬機關辦理全民運動事項之督導,十二選手參與國際賽事之權益保障及申訴,國際運動仲裁等相關事項辦理,十三其他有關運動事項,令增訂第二項及第三項條文為本部得將前項第六款業務委託具相關專業之機關法人學術單位或專業團體辦理,"},{"start":15732.572,"end":15755.655,"text":"本部得將第一項第十二款業務委託具相關專業之事業機構法人團體辦理。其餘同行政院提案。委員林錦等提案第二條同行政院提案。行政院提案第三條本部支部長一人特任政務司長二人職務比照檢認第十四職等常務司長一人職務列檢認第十四職等。"},{"start":15757.423,"end":15760.929,"text":"行政院提案第4條本部制主任秘書職務列檢任第12職等"},{"start":15763.643,"end":15788.966,"text":"發展部組織法草案）委員洪孟楷等楊瓊瓔等台灣民眾黨黨團委員鍾嘉斌等羅廷維等徐富奎等范雲等吳佩義等及委員林佩義等提案。第三條及第四條軍統行政院提案。行政院提案第五條本部設全民運動署辦理全民運動業務推動競技運動全民化、形塑運動文化"},{"start":15790.069,"end":15801.261,"text":"委員洪孟楷等提案第5條本部之次級機關及其業務如下。一、運動產業局執行運動產業培植、獎勵、補助及民間聯絡等政策及業務有關之事項。二、運動推廣及合作交流局執行運動推廣及行銷與國內外運動業務合作交流等事項。"},{"start":15813.508,"end":15826.716,"text":"委員楊瓊瓔等提案第5條對照委員洪孟楷等提案。除第一款修正為一運動產業局執行運動產業制培職發展輔導及其有關事項其與同委員洪孟楷等提案。"},{"start":15829.588,"end":15842.432,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團提案第5條本部之四級機關及其業務如下一、全民運動及運動設施局執行全民運動推廣及行銷和各運動設施之業務二、運動產業發展局運動產業培植"},{"start":15848.823,"end":15872.676,"text":"獎勵補助及民間聯絡等政策及業務有關之事項（委員鍾嘉斌等提案第5條同行政院提案（委員羅廷偉等提案第5條對照行政院提案（除默劇修正為形塑全民運動文化外習與同行政院提案（委員徐富奎等提案第5條本部之次級機關及其業務如下（依本部設全民運動署辦理全民運動業務推動（"},{"start":15875.294,"end":15896.481,"text":"競技運動全民化形塑運動文化二本部設運動產業發展署辦理促進運動產業發展與協助運動科技研發應用之政策規劃及執行。委員范雲等吳佩義等及林一景等提案第5條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第6條"},{"start":15898.257,"end":15925.784,"text":"本部委應業務需要得報請行政院核准,派員助境外辦事並依住外機構組織通則規定辦理。委員洪孟楷等提案第6條對照行政院提案除第二具具首得報請修正為得報境外其餘同行政院提案。委員楊瓊瓔等台灣民眾黨黨團及委員鍾嘉斌等提案第6條均同委員洪孟楷等提案。委員羅廷維等"},{"start":15930.696,"end":15951.486,"text":"行政院提案第7條本部一級業務單位主管必要使得比照專科以上學校副教授或教授之資格聘任其退休輔敘比照教師相關規定辦理並由本部核定之委員中嘉賓等提案第7條本部各一級業務單位之主管副主管其中一人"},{"start":15952.199,"end":15979.575,"text":"必要時得比照下列資格聘任,其退休輔敘比照教師相關規定辦理,並由本部核定之一,主管得比照專科以上學校副教授教授之資格或副教授及專業技術人員之資格聘任二,副主管得比照專科以上學校副教授之資格或副教授及專業技術人員之資格聘任。委員徐富奎等提案"},{"start":15981.007,"end":15996.983,"text":"集委員范雲等委員吳佩義等委員林益錦等提案第7條軍統行政院提案。行政院提案第8條本部及所屬機關為應運動發展多元化經用人才得依聘用人員聘用條例之規定聘用運動相關領域專業人員"},{"start":15999.454,"end":16028.981,"text":"委員鍾佳冰等提案第8條本部及所述機關為應運動發展多元化僅用人才得依照聘用人員聘用條例之規定聘用運動領域專業人員委員徐富奎等范雲等吳佩義等及林怡景等提案第8條均同行政院提案行政院提案第9條本部各職稱之官等職等及員額另以編制表定之"},{"start":16030.301,"end":16045.987,"text":"法草案案 提案第7條委員鍾嘉斌等提案第9條委員羅廷維等提案第7條委員徐富奎等范雲等吳佩儀等及林一景等提案第9條均同行政院提案第9條"},{"start":16048.57,"end":16062.389,"text":"委員吳佩義等提案第10條本部會整合規劃協調推動諮詢第二條第一項各款之業務應定期就下列事項召開諮詢委員會一、多元運動平權二、兒童及少年運動員保障"},{"start":16063.77,"end":16082.812,"text":"三）職業選手保障前向諮詢委員會成員應包括主管機關、目的事業主管機關選手、教練、多元專業運動人才、學者專家及團體代表。其設置辦法由中央主管機關定定之,其中單一性別不得少於三分之一。"},{"start":16083.192,"end":16103.697,"text":"不具官方身份之代表不得少於委員總數二分之一。第一項第二款之諮詢委員會應包括兒少代表。第一項第三款之諮詢委員會應包括職業選手代表與職業選手工會代表。行政院提案第十條本法施行日期由行政院定之。"},{"start":16104.912,"end":16132.648,"text":"委員洪孟楷等楊瓊瓔等及台灣民眾黨黨團第8條委員鍾嘉斌等提案第10條委員羅廷緯等提案第8條委員徐富奎等范雲等吳佩義等及林一錦等提案第10條均同行政院提案第10條第二案運動部全民運動署組織法草案行政院提案名稱運動部全民運動署組織法委員羅廷緯等提案名稱"},{"start":16133.758,"end":16149.507,"text":"體育及運動發展部全民運動組組織法委員吳佩毅等及委員林一景等名稱均同行政院提案。行政院提案第一條運動部委辦理全民運動之全民化與社區化發展。"},{"start":16150.747,"end":16179.195,"text":"組織競技運動全民化各層及賽事推廣運動教育及技能發展、形塑運動文化特設全民運動署以下簡稱本署委員羅廷偉等提案第一條對照行政院提案除首具與前段運動部為辦理修正為體育及運動發展部為規劃與執行另倒數第二具形塑運動文化修正為相關業務其與同行政院提案"},{"start":16180.855,"end":16196.919,"text":"委員吳佩義等提案第一條對照行政院提案除前段修正為運動部委辦理全民運動社區化及全民化發展促進新興運動制發展使經濟運動全民化其餘同行政院提案委員林益錦等提案第一條同行政院提案"},{"start":16197.459,"end":16222.439,"text":"行政院提案第二條本屬長禮下列事項一、全民運動政策之規劃推動與執行及相關法規之研擬。二、國民規律運動、運動教育與體適能檢測之規劃推動及執行。三、兒童少年、青年壯年與高齡者全民運動之規劃推動及執行。四、海洋水域與山林運動之規劃推動及執行。"},{"start":16225.001,"end":16230.604,"text":"發展部組織法草案 規劃推動及執行,六）社區運動俱樂部與社團各層級賽事推廣之規劃推動及執行,七）全國性運動團體推動全民運動之輔導,八）多元運動專業人員之培育及輔導,九）其他有關全民運動事項委員羅廷偉等提案第二條"},{"start":16253.878,"end":16280.069,"text":"對照行政院提案除第一款條文中推動前增訂管理等文字外其餘同行政院提案為無配意等提案第二條對照行政院提案除第五款及第六款條文中規劃前均增訂輔導等文字外令增訂第九款為九全民運動國際交流與運動外交之促進"},{"start":16281.365,"end":16303.859,"text":"第10款由行政院提案第9款條文第1其餘同行政院提案委員林益錦等提案第二條同行政院提案行政院提案第三條本署至署長一人職務列檢任第13職等必要時得比照大學校長之資格聘任副署長一人職務列檢任第12職等"},{"start":16305.16,"end":16322.489,"text":"法務委員羅定偉等提案第三條對照行政院提案除刪除第三具必要使得比照大學校長之資格聘任外其餘同行政院提案委員吳佩義等及委員林益錦等提案第三條均同行政院提案行政院提案第4條本屬至主任秘書職務列檢任第11職等"},{"start":16325.43,"end":16343.171,"text":"行政院提案第五條本署各職稱之官等職等及員額令以編制表定之行政院提案第六條本法施行日期由行政院定之委員羅廷偉等吳佩義等及林怡瑾等提案第四條至第六條均同行政院提案"},{"start":16344.48,"end":16372.68,"text":"考論事項第三案國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案行政院提案名稱國家運動產業發展中心設置條例委員吳佩義等提案名稱及委員林怡靜等提案名稱均同行政院提案行政院提案第一章章明總則委員吳佩義等提案第一章及委員林怡靜等提案第一章章明均同行政院提案"},{"start":16373.681,"end":16393.512,"text":"行政院提案第一條為建構優質運動產業環境促進運動產業發展特設國家運動產業發展中心括弧以下簡稱本中心並制定本條例委員吳佩義等提案第一條及委員黎一晶等提案第一條均同行政院提案"},{"start":16394.693,"end":16411.748,"text":"行政院提案第二條本中心為行政法人其監督機關為運動部委員吳佩義等提案第二條及委員李一金等提案第二條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第三條本中心之業務範圍如下一、運動產業之調查、統計及研究發展二、運動產業專業人才之培育與媒合"},{"start":16419.794,"end":16425.501,"text":"及國際交流 運動產業營運與投融資資輔導諮詢及協助 運動產業資產之規劃、建置、治理及運用 運動產品或服務之價值運用與市場拓展及商業模式之營運管理"},{"start":16442.497,"end":16450.983,"text":"公有私有運動場域與學校場地開放及社區運動俱樂部設置之輔導。禁忌運動全民化與全民運動產業化之推動及輔導。運動賽事產業化傳播行銷規劃與平台建立之諮詢及協助。其他與運動產業相關之業務。"},{"start":16467.182,"end":16496.79,"text":"委員吳珮儀等提案第三條對照行政院提案第一項同行政院提案增訂第二項前項第三款業務之輔導諮詢及協助對象之選擇應考量其違反勞動基準法性別平等工作法勞工退休金條例職業安全衛生法及其他損害勞工權益之違法紀錄委員林一錦等提案第三條同行政院提案"},{"start":16497.648,"end":16522.259,"text":"行政院提案第4條本中心經費來源如下一、運動發展基金所獲運動財政發行盈餘或其他政府預算之合撥及捐補助。二、國內外公司立機構、團體及個人之捐贈。三、受託研究及提供服務之收入。四、其他收入前向第二款之捐贈、適同對政府之捐贈。"},{"start":16523.439,"end":16538.617,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第4條及委員林一錦等提案第4條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第5條本中心應訂定組織章程人事管理會計制度內部控制集合作業及其他規章"},{"start":16539.338,"end":16565.443,"text":"提經董事會通過後報請監督機關備查本中心就執行之公共事務在不抵觸有關法律或法規命令之範圍內得訂定規章並提經董事會通過後報請監督機關備查。委員吳佩義等提案第5條及委員李景等提案第5條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第二章章民組織"},{"start":16566.857,"end":16572.965,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第二章及委員李儀錦等提案第二章章敏軍統行政院提案。"},{"start":16573.857,"end":16601.187,"text":"行政院提案第6條本中心至董事會至董事11人至15人由監督機關就下列人員下列人員臨選提請行政院院長聘任之解聘時一同一政府機關相關政府相關機關代表二與運動產業相關之學者專家三民間企業經營管理專家及對國家體育運動有重大貢獻之社會人士"},{"start":16602.387,"end":16629.578,"text":"前向第一款之董事不得與董事總人數三分之一,第二款之董事不得少於董事總人數二分之一,第一項董事任意性別不得少於董事總人數三分之一。委員吳珮毅等提案第6條對照行政院提案除第一項第二款具首前增訂現役或退役職業"},{"start":16632.372,"end":16649.217,"text":"現役或退役職業或業務業於運動業選手等文字之外並增訂第四款。第四（法律或會計等相關學士經驗者其餘相同。委員李靜等提案第6條同行政院提案"},{"start":16650.188,"end":16670.82,"text":"行政院提案第7條本中心致監視3人由監督機關就具運動產業法律或會計等相關學士經驗者領選提請行政院院長聘人之解聘時一同監視因互選一人為常務監視第一項監視任意性別不得少於監視總人數三分之一"},{"start":16671.977,"end":16689.26,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第7條及委員林一景等提案第7條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第8條董事兼事任期為4年期滿的續聘之但續聘人數不得逾總人數2%不得少於1%代表政府機關出任之董事"},{"start":16689.721,"end":16712.269,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 因依其職務,依動改聘。依第6條第一項第二款第三款及前條第一項聘任之董事監事任期屆滿前出缺者,由監督機關領選提請行政院院長補聘之。其任期至原任者任期屆滿時為止。委員吳佩儀等提案第8條及委員林益勤等提案第8條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":16713.129,"end":16739.523,"text":"行政院提案第9條有下列情勢之一者不得聘任為董事監事一、受監護宣告或輔助宣告尚未撤銷二、受有歧途以上刑之判決確定而未受緩刑之宣告三、受破產宣告或依消費者債務清理條例經法院裁定開始清算程序尚未復權四、持奪公權尚未復權"},{"start":16740.663,"end":16754.103,"text":"董事堅持有前項情形之一或無故連續不出席不列席董事會會議打三次者應予解聘董事堅持有下列各款情形之一者得予解聘一、行為不簡或品性不端"},{"start":16755.376,"end":16782.17,"text":"制影響本中心形象有確實證據。二）工作執行不力或代護職責有具體事實或違反憑約情節重大。三）當屆之本中心年度績效評鑑連續二年未達監督機關鎖定標準。四）違反公務人員行政中立法之情勢有確實證據。五）救主管事件接受關說或請託或利用職務關係接受招待或虧贈。"},{"start":16783.571,"end":16809.987,"text":"制損害公益或本中心利益有確實證據。」六（非因職務之需要動用本中心財產有確實證據。七（違反第14條或第15條第一項利益迴避規定有確實證據。八（其他不適任董事監視職位之行為前向各款情形監督機關與解聘前應給予當事人陳述意見及申辯之機會本中心董事監視之遴選"},{"start":16811.909,"end":16823.868,"text":"資靈聘解聘補聘之方式及其他相關事項之辦法由監督機關定之。委員吳佩儀等提案第9條及委員林益錦等提案第9條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":16825.632,"end":16842.042,"text":"行政院提案第10條本中心致董事長一人由監督機關就董事中提請行政院院長聘任之解聘時一同董事長之聘任解聘補聘之方式及其他相關事項之辦法由監督機關定之"},{"start":16842.662,"end":16868.128,"text":"行政院函請審議。總市長對內縱理本中心一切失誤,對外代表本中心,其因故不能執行職務時由其指定之董事代行職權,不能指定時由董事互退一人代行職權。董事長出任年齡不得逾65歲,任期屆滿前年滿70歲者應即更換,但有特殊考量,經行政院核准者不在此限。"},{"start":16868.988,"end":16886.38,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。」我用吳佩奕等提案第10條及我用林益錦等提案第10條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第11條董事會之職權如下。一、發展目標及計劃之審議。二、年度業務計劃之審議。三、年度預算及決算報告之審議。四、規章之審議。"},{"start":16887.466,"end":16907.516,"text":"法草案（事由不動產處分或其設定負擔之審議．本條例所定應經董事會決議事項之審議．至行長任免之同意．經費之籌募．其他重大事項之審議．委員吳佩儀等提案第11條及委員李一錦等提案第11條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":16908.456,"end":16936.95,"text":"行政院提案第十二條董事會每三個月開會一次必要時的召集臨時會議由董事長召集並擔任主席董事會會議應有過半數董事之出席其決議應有出席董事過半數之同意但前條第一款至第七款之決議應有董事總人數過半數之同意委員吳佩儀等提案第十二條及委員李一錦等提案第十二條均同行政院提案"},{"start":16938.26,"end":16957.459,"text":"行政院提案第13條監事之職權如下一、年度業務決算之審核二、業務財務狀況之監督三、財務賬冊文件及財產資料之集合四、其他重大事項之審核及集合監事單獨行使職權常務監事應代表全體監事列席董事會會議"},{"start":16958.88,"end":16968.117,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第13條同行政院提案委員倪錦等提案第13條對照行政院提案除了第二項第二具聚首"},{"start":16971.215,"end":16990.202,"text":"常務監事後少一個是字之外其餘同行政院提案。行政院提案第14條董事監事相互間不得有配偶及三親等以內血親因親之關係。委員吳佩奕等提案第14條及委員林益靜等提案第14條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":16991.195,"end":17012.382,"text":"行政院天第15條董事監事執行長及其關係人之利益迴避事項依公職人員利益衝突迴避法之規定辦理違反前項規定至本中心受有損害者行為人應對其負損害賠償責任第一項人員違反公職人員利益衝突迴避法之規定者處依該法規定處罰外監督機關並得為適當之處置其處置規定由監督機關定之"},{"start":17017.424,"end":17037.518,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第15條及委員李一錦等提案第15條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第16條董事常務監事應親自出席列席董事會會議不得委託他人代理出席。委員吳佩儀等提案第16條及委員李一錦等提案第16條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17038.579,"end":17058.052,"text":"行政院提案第17條本中心之董事長得為專任或兼任。專任者之報酬由監督機關核定之。兼任者為無己職。本中心之董事常務監事及監事均為無己職。委員吳佩儀等提案第17條及委員吳林一景等提案第17條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17059.053,"end":17086.193,"text":"行政院提言第18條本中心至執行長一人專任由董事長提請董事會通過後聘人之解聘時一同執行長依本中心規章董事會之決議及董事長之授權執行本中心業務並督導所屬人員第9條第一項至第4項第10條第4項第14條及第22條第6項有關董事及董事長之規定於執行長準用之"},{"start":17087.054,"end":17092.983,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第18條及委員林一金等提案第18條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17094.608,"end":17117.605,"text":"行政院提案第19條本中心經用制人員以本中心人事管理規章辦理不具公務人員身份其權利義務關係應於契約中明定董事監事執行長之配偶及其三親等以內寫親應親不得擔任本中心總務會計及人事職務董事長執行長不得經用其配偶及三親等以內寫親應親擔任本中心職務"},{"start":17119.94,"end":17145.902,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）委員吳沛毅等提案第19條及委員李英景等提案第19條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第20條本中心未應業務需要依得報請監督機關核准依任務性質林派專業人員駐境外辦事。委員吳沛毅等提案第20條及委員李英景等提案第20條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第三章張明業務及"},{"start":17147.442,"end":17166.209,"text":"業務及監督委員吳佩儀等提案第三章及委員李儀錦等提案第三章章敏均同行政院提案。行政院提案第二十一條本中心應擬定發展目標及計劃提經董事會通過後報請監督機關核定本中心應訂定年度業務計劃及其預算"},{"start":17169.166,"end":17193.213,"text":"體經董事會通過後報請監督機關備查。cellence Wu Peiyi等提案第21條及委員李英景等提案第21條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第22條監督機關對本中心之監督權限如下。一﹐發展目標及計劃之核定。二﹐規章、年度業務計劃與預算、年度執行成果及決算報告書之核定或備查。三﹐財產及財務狀況之檢查。四﹐"},{"start":17195.874,"end":17216.626,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）業務績效之評鑑。五）董事監事臨聘解聘之建議。六）董事監事於執行業務違反法令時得為必要處分。七）本中心違反憲法法律法規命令時得與撤銷變更廢紙限期改善,停止執行或其他處分。八）自有不動產處分或設定。"},{"start":17218.647,"end":17233.156,"text":"負擔之何可．九．本中心禮應派專業人員助境外辦事之何準．十．其他依法律所為之監督．委員吳佩儀等提案第22條．及委員李怡瑾等提案第22條均同行政院提案．"},{"start":17234.795,"end":17260.203,"text":"行政院提案第二十三條監督機關應邀集有關機關代表學者專家及社會公正人士辦理本中心之績效評鑑及學者專家及社會公正人士之人數不得少於二分之一前項評鑑人評鑑成員任意性別不得少於總人數三分之一第一項績效評鑑之成員資格條件領聘程序績效評鑑之方式程序及其他相關事項之辦法由監督機關定之"},{"start":17260.923,"end":17282.856,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．一、本中心年度執行成果之考核．二．本中心業務績效及目標達成度之評量．三．本中心年度自籌款比率達成率．四．本中心經費合撥之建議．五．其他有關事項．委員吳佩毅等提案第23條．及委員林益錦等提案第23條軍統行政院提案．"},{"start":17284.909,"end":17307.045,"text":"行政院提案第4章章明會計及財務,吳佩儀等提案第4章及委員林益錦等提案第4章章明均同行政院提案。行政院提案第24條本中心會計年度應與政府會計年度一致。本中心之會計年度依行政法人會計制度設計相關法規訂定。本中心財務報表應委請會計師進行查核簽證。"},{"start":17311.448,"end":17315.979,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第24條及委員李景等提案第24條軍中行政院提案。"},{"start":17316.894,"end":17328.258,"text":"行政院提案第25條本中心於會計年度終了後三個月內應將年度執行成果及決算報告書委託會計師查核簽證提交董事會審議並經全體監視通過後報請監督機關備查並送審計機關前向決算報告審計機關得審計值審計結果得送監督機關或其他相關機關為必要之處理"},{"start":17343.14,"end":17366.208,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第25條及委員李益錦等提案第25條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第26條本中心成立年度至政府合撥經費,得由監督機關在原預算範圍內調整因應,不受預算法第62條及63條規定之限制。委員吳佩儀等提案第26條及委員李益錦等提案第26條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17367.253,"end":17395.914,"text":"行政院提案第二十七條本中心因業務必要使用之公有財產的架構或由政府機關採捐贈出租或無償提供使用方式為之採捐贈者不受土地法第二十五條國有財產法第二十八條第六十條及地方政府公產管理法令相關規定之限制前項架構公有土地之加款以當其公告土地限制為準地上建築物"},{"start":17396.988,"end":17412.014,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文"},{"start":17424.52,"end":17446.253,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由（本中心取得之財產為自有財產,第一項無償提供使用及第三項之公有財產由本中心登記為管理人,所剩之收益列為本中心之收入不受國有財產法第7條第一項及地方政府公產管理法令相關規定之限制,其管理使用收益等相關事項之辦法由監督機關定之。"},{"start":17449.935,"end":17469.786,"text":"公有財產用途廢止時應移交各級政府工廠管理機關接管。黨中心接受捐贈之公有不動產不須使用時應歸還原捐贈機關不得任意處分。委員吳佩儀等提案第27條及委員李怡瑾等提案第27條均從行政院提案。"},{"start":17471.095,"end":17496.929,"text":"行政院提案第28條政府機關合撥本中心資金費應依法訂成預算程序辦理並受審計監督政府機關合撥資金費超過本中心當年度預算收入來源50%者應由監督機關將其年度預算書送立法院審議本中心自主裁員及其運用管理相關事項由本中心訂定收支管理規章報請監督機關備查"},{"start":17499.821,"end":17528.965,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．一．一等提案第28條及委員林益靜等提案第28條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第29條本中心所舉借之債務以具自償性質者為限並應先送監督機關核定預算執行結果如有不能自償之餘時應其檢討提出改善措施報請監督機關核定。委員吳佩儀等提案第29條及委員林益靜等提案第29條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17530.034,"end":17558.794,"text":"行政院提案第三十條本中心之採購作業應本公開公正之原則除了符合我國地協之條約協定或政府採購法第四條第一項鎖定情形應依各該規定辦理外不適用政府採購法之規定其採購作業實施規章應報請建築機關核定請向應依政府採購法第四條第一項規定辦理之採購其與其他法律另有規定者從其規定"},{"start":17560.56,"end":17570.288,"text":"委員吳佩毅等提案第30條及委員林靜等提案第30條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第31條本中心之相關資訊"},{"start":17571.271,"end":17597.466,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）政府資訊公開法相關規定公開之其年度財務報表、年度業務資訊及年度績效評鑑報告應主動公開。前項年度績效評鑑報告應由監督機關提交分析報告,送立法院備查。必要時,立法院得要求監督機關首長率同本中心之董事長、執行長或相關主管之立法院報告營運狀況並備詢。"},{"start":17600.066,"end":17617.035,"text":"法務委員吳佩儀等提案第31條對照行政院提案除將第二項第4句必要時等文字刪除外其餘同行政院提案委員林益錦等提案第31條同行政院提案。行政院提案第5章張明負責"},{"start":17618.257,"end":17637.472,"text":"委員吳佩儀等提案第5章及委員李一錦等提案第5章章明均同行政院提案。行政院提案第3舌條對於本中新制行政主犯不服者得依訴願法制規定向監督機關提起訴願。委員吳佩儀等提案第3舌條及委員李一錦等提案第3舌條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17638.493,"end":17665.775,"text":"行政院提案第33條本中心因情勢變更或績效不彰至不能達成其設置設立目的時由監督機關提請行政院同意後解散之本中心解散時其人員應終止契約其剩餘財產歸屬國庫其相關權利義務由監督機關概括承受委員吳佩儀等提案第33條及委員林益錦等提案第33條均同行政院提案"},{"start":17666.775,"end":17677.031,"text":"行政院提案第34條本條例施行日期由行政院定之。委員吳佩玉等提案第34條及委員李景等提案第34條均同行政院提案。"},{"start":17683.709,"end":17703.238,"text":"行政院提案及委員吳珮毅等為林益錦等提案第一條軍衛修正行政院提案第二條本中心為行政法人及監督機關為運動部委員吳珮毅等及委員林益錦等提案第二條軍同行政院提案行政院提案第三條除第三款及第五款修正為三"},{"start":17704.93,"end":17710.256,"text":"醫療照護支援訓練之執行五（國家級優秀運動選手之課業輔導及生涯諮詢輔導並增訂第六款六（競技運動相關事項之國際交流"},{"start":17719.787,"end":17745.632,"text":"行政院擬具第7款及第8款由原第6款及第7款條文遞移其餘未修正為無配意等提案第三條對照行政院提案除第三款修正為三醫療照護運動防護選手心理健康促進等業務以支援訓練之執行。第五款國家及後面優秀二字刪除。第六款增訂後段及輔導協助選手運動"},{"start":17748.533,"end":17773.466,"text":"及輔導協助選手教練從事國際交流外其餘同行政院提案為林益錦等提案第三條對照行政院提案除第六款末國際交流修正為國內外交流外其餘同行政院提案行政院提案第四條除第二項第二具修正為適同對政府之捐贈其餘未修正行政院提案第五條"},{"start":17774.932,"end":17789.677,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由．一）行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案）事由．一）行政院擬具、「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．一）行政院擬具、「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．"},{"start":17800.038,"end":17827.352,"text":"委員吳佩義等提案第6條對照行政院提案除第一項第二款修正為二與運動法律科學產業及與運動相關之教育醫療照護運動防護心理健康促進之學者專家第三款條文三除由行政院提案第四款條文第一並將條文中國家修正為我國"},{"start":17829.025,"end":17855.859,"text":"第二項條文中前項第一款之董事後面增定逗號第二款之董事後面增定逗號其餘同行政院提案委員林益錦等提案第6條同行政院提案行政院提案第7條除第三項墨具中總人數前增定兼室二之外其餘未修正委員吳佩義等及委員林益錦等提案第7條均同行政院提案"},{"start":17856.559,"end":17876.907,"text":"行政院提案第8條除第一項條文中續聘一次修正為續聘之不得超過修正為不得於令第二項刪除第三具不受前項續聘次數之限制等文字外其餘未修正委員吳佩義等提案對照行政院提案"},{"start":17878.902,"end":17898.42,"text":"發展部組織法草案．第8條除第二項條文中第二款至第四款修正為第二款第三款其餘同行政院提案為林錦等提案第8條對照行政院提案除第一項但書中不得於修正為不得超過於等文字其餘同行政院"},{"start":17899.053,"end":17915.849,"text":"發展部組織法草案）行政院提案第9條除第一項第三款修正為三受破產宣告或依消費者債務清理條例經法院裁定開始清算程序尚未復權原第五款條文文字刪除"},{"start":17918.171,"end":17940.838,"text":"第二項首具後段修正違或無故連續不出席不列席董事會會議達三次者令第三項第七款修正違七違反第十四條或第十五條第一項利益迴避規定有確實證據其餘未修正委員吳佩儀等提案第九條同行政院提案"},{"start":17941.118,"end":17965.513,"text":"行政院提案。委員林益錦等提案第9條對照行政院提案除第三項條文中董事會會議修正為董事會議外其餘同行政院提案。行政院提案第10條除第二項修正為董事長之聘任解聘補聘之方式及其他相關事項之辦法由監督機關定之其餘未修正。行政院提案第11條除第7款修正為執行長"},{"start":17967.476,"end":17995.261,"text":"認免之同意其餘未修正。行政院提案第12條及第13條均未修正。行政院提案第14條董事監視相互間不得有或曾有配偶及三親等以內血親陰親之關係。行政院提案第15條董事監視執行長及其關係人之利益迴避事項依公職人員利益衝突迴避法這規定辦理違反前項規定之本中心受有損害者行為人應對其"},{"start":17997.119,"end":18024.83,"text":"副損害賠償責任、第一項人員違反公職人員利益衝突迴避法這規定者除一該法規定處罰外監督機關並得為適當之處置其處置規定由監督機關定之。行政院提案第16條除將條文中董事會議修正為董事會會議外其餘未修正。行政院提案第17條本中心董事長董事常務監事及監事均為無己職"},{"start":18026.178,"end":18053.409,"text":"行政院提案第18條除第二項修正為第9條第一項至第4項第10條第4項第14條及第22條第6款有關董事及董事長之規定與執行長準用之其餘未修正。行政院提案第19條除第二項董事監事後增訂執行長等文字第三項"},{"start":18055.336,"end":18083.978,"text":"董事長後面增定執行長等文字外其餘未修正。行政院提案第20條本中心未應業務需要得報請監督機關核准依任務性質零派專業人員駐境外辦事。行政院提案第21條由原20條條次變更並將第一項增定第二具提經董事會通過後等文字外其餘未修正。"},{"start":18085.407,"end":18108.393,"text":"委員吳佩義等及委員林益錦等提案第10條至第21條均同行政院提案。行政院提案第22條由原第21條條次變更,除第5款及第6款修正為5.董事監事臨聘解聘之建議,6.董事監事於執行業務違反法令時得為必要處分。第7款末"},{"start":18110.576,"end":18126.971,"text":"或其他處分修正為或其他處分令增定第九款。九本中心臨派專業人員住境外辦事之何準。第十款由原第九款條文第以其餘未修正。"},{"start":18131.037,"end":18156.56,"text":"委員吳珮毅等提案第22條同行政院提案委員林瑛等提案第22條對照行政院提案除第5款條文中董事監事後面增訂之字第6款及第7款條文同原現行條文第21條第6款及第7款的條文外其餘同行政院提案行政院提案第23條"},{"start":18157.961,"end":18184.762,"text":"由原22條條次變更除第一項莫具不得少於二分之一前增定逗號增定第二項前項評鑑成員任意性別不得少於總人數三分之一第三項由原第二項條文第一並將首具前段修正為第一項績效評鑑之成員資格條件聆聘程序績效評鑑之方式程序"},{"start":18186.482,"end":18190.094,"text":"第4項有緣第三項條文第1其餘未修正"},{"start":18191.843,"end":18215.591,"text":"行政院提案第24條至第26條分別由原現行條文第23條至第25條條次變更條文均未修正。行政院提案第27條由原26條條次變更並將第一項修正為本中心因業務必要使用之公有財產得架構或由政府機關採捐贈。"},{"start":18217.918,"end":18236.952,"text":"出租或無償提供使用方式為之,才捐贈者不受土地法第25條、國有財產法第28條、第60條及地方政府、工廠管理法令相關規定之限制。第二項手具修正為前項架構公有土地之架款。"},{"start":18238.291,"end":18258.755,"text":"第四項修正為第一項出租五場提供使用及前項之公有財產以外由本中心取得之財產為自有財產。第五項第五具修正為不受國有財產法第七條第一項及地方政府公產管理法令相關規定之限制其餘未修正。"},{"start":18260.495,"end":18288.542,"text":"行政院提案第28條由原27條條次變更第一項及第二項未修正增訂第三項本中心自本中心自主裁員及其運用管理相關事項由本中心訂定收支管理規章報請監督機關備查行政院提案第29條由原28條條次變更並將倒數第三句末之餘者修正為之餘時其餘未修正"},{"start":18289.813,"end":18306.542,"text":"行政院提案第30條由原29條條次變更並將條文中政府採購法第4條後面均增訂第一項其餘未修正。行政院提案第31條及第32條分別由原第30條及31條條次變更條文均未修正。"},{"start":18313.72,"end":18339.168,"text":"行政院提案第33條有緣32條條次變更並將第二項後段修正為其剩餘財產歸屬國庫其相關權利義務由監督機關蓋瓜承受其餘未修正行政院提案第34條有緣33條條次變更條文未修正委員吳珮毅等及委員林益錦等提案第23條之第34條均同行政院提案"},{"start":18340.865,"end":18367.144,"text":"第五案國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案行政院提案第二條本中心為行政法人其監督機關為運動部委員吳佩義等提案第二條同行政院提案為林益錦等提案第二條除第一項條文中教育部修正為運動部外其餘未修正行政院提案第三條除第一款末"},{"start":18368.618,"end":18382.655,"text":"醫療照護修正為運動醫學研究 第三款末增訂及國際交流外其餘未修正 委員吳佩義等提案第三條對照行政院提案除第一款條文中"},{"start":18384.956,"end":18411.516,"text":"醫學研究修正委運動醫學運動防護技術研究。」令增訂第二項。前項第六款至第八款業務得與基層運動選手訓練站合作辦理。其餘同行政院提案。違領警等提案第三條對照行政院提案。除第二款末增訂及國際交流。第三款末及國際交流三除外。其餘同行政院提案。"},{"start":18412.697,"end":18435.828,"text":"行政院提案第6條除第三項條文中總人數前增定董事外其餘未修正行政院提案第7條除第三項條文中總人數前增定監事二字外其餘未修正行政院提案第3條除第一項第二句末續聘一次修正為續聘之第二項第三句"},{"start":18437.503,"end":18463.991,"text":"不受前項續聘次數之限制等文字刪除外其餘未修正。行政院提案第18條除將第二項條文中第19條第二項第三項等文字刪除外其餘未修正。行政院提案第19條除第二項手具中董事兼事後增訂及執行長"},{"start":18465.441,"end":18481.761,"text":"第三項手具中董事長後面增訂及執行長等文字外其餘未修正。行政院提案第19條之一本中心未應業務需要而報請監督機關核准。依任務性質臨派專業人員駐境外辦事。"},{"start":18484.364,"end":18513.615,"text":"行政院提案第21條除增定第9款為9本中心林派專業人員駐境外辦事之核准第10款由原第9款條文遞移其餘未修正委員吳佩義等及委員林一景等提案第6條至第8條第18條第19條第19條之一及第21條均同行政院提案。第6案教育部組織法第二條第5條及第9條條文修正草案"},{"start":18514.352,"end":18536.959,"text":"行政院提案第二條除將第八款條文中全民運動、競技運動、運動產業、國際與兩岸運動及運動設施等文字刪除外其餘未修正委員羅廷偉等提案第一一零零一一零零零五九六號第二條除將第二款條文中"},{"start":18538.129,"end":18562.212,"text":"性別平等教育後面增定哲學教育外其餘未修正。」委員陳金輝等提案第二條除將第二款性別平等教育後面增定哲學教育、交通安全教育等外其餘未修正。委員羅廷偉等提案第1107293號第二條同行政院提案。"},{"start":18563.854,"end":18590.447,"text":"委員吳佩義等提案。第二條對照行政院提案除將第三款條文中港澳生與陸生之輔導後面的頓號修正為逗號。第五款條文中輔導與行政監督後面的頓號修正為逗號。協調與推動後面的頓號修正為逗號。第六款條文"},{"start":18592.406,"end":18620.286,"text":"學生事務之輔導及行政監督後面的頓耗修正為逗耗外其餘同行政院提案委員林益錦等提案第二條同行政院提案行政院提案第五條除將原第二款條文刪除並將第三款條文遞移為第二款外其餘未修正委員羅廷偉等委員吳佩義等及委員林益錦等提案第五條均同行政院提案"},{"start":18620.973,"end":18637.606,"text":"行政院提案第9條第一項未修正第二項修正為本法修正條文除中華民國某年某月某日修正之條文施行日期由行政院定之外自公佈日施行委員羅廷偉等及委員吳佩義等提案第9條"},{"start":18639.85,"end":18662.212,"text":"軍統行政院提案（委員林益錦等提案第9條第一項未修正第二項修正為本法修正條文出中華民國101年2月3日全文修正之條文中華民國110年5月26日修正公佈之第6條條文施行日期由行政院定之外自公佈日施行宣讀完畢"},{"start":18666.332,"end":18679.408,"text":"法律事項所列個案,報告及詢答完畢,作如下決議,均另定其繼續審查。」本次會議進行到此,現在散會,謝謝大家。"}]}},{"id":"16257","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16257","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd161a8535b05d3ed3b6918ac9a8133975edb79b8bfb08e7999e5f90873ed2f4085ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:31:01+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:59:00+08:00","duration":16079,"影片長度":"04:27:59","委員發言時間":"08:31:01 - 12:59:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1742.3409687500002,"end":1751.0653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1753.0565937500003,"end":1760.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1760.4984687500003,"end":1768.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1768.7503437500002,"end":1771.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1771.51784375,"end":1777.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1777.9134687500002,"end":1782.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1782.2840937500002,"end":1784.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1784.5115937500002,"end":1786.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1786.7728437500002,"end":1796.4759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1797.7415937500002,"end":1813.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1814.95409375,"end":1823.0203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1823.7797187500003,"end":1824.7247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1824.9103437500003,"end":1828.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1830.2259687500002,"end":1831.0528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1831.5759687500001,"end":1835.8622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1836.5540937500002,"end":1841.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1843.3040937500002,"end":1856.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1856.4834687500002,"end":1859.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1860.2128437500003,"end":1864.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1864.4147187500002,"end":1868.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1869.0553437500002,"end":1870.0678437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1870.23659375,"end":1874.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1875.2147187500002,"end":1879.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1879.7372187500002,"end":1880.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1880.7328437500003,"end":1885.2047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1885.8628437500001,"end":1888.6134687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1889.3728437500001,"end":1898.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1907.5303437500002,"end":1915.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1916.20409375,"end":1924.1859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1924.5572187500002,"end":1941.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1942.4447187500002,"end":1944.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1944.2334687500002,"end":1945.7859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1946.3597187500002,"end":1950.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1951.0678437500003,"end":1953.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1954.5609687500003,"end":1960.5853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1960.8553437500002,"end":1961.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1962.9478437500002,"end":1963.6734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1968.65159375,"end":1970.0522187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1975.97534375,"end":1977.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1977.7134687500002,"end":1983.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1983.2484687500003,"end":1992.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1992.3440937500002,"end":1994.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1994.7909687500003,"end":2001.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2003.12721875,"end":2026.2459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2026.6340937500001,"end":2028.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2029.0809687500002,"end":2031.5109687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2031.6797187500001,"end":2035.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2035.18971875,"end":2042.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2042.3278437500003,"end":2043.7453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2044.3359687500001,"end":2047.9134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2048.68971875,"end":2057.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2058.32534375,"end":2064.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2064.97409375,"end":2070.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2070.1884687500005,"end":2082.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2082.81096875,"end":2088.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2088.8015937500004,"end":2096.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2097.69471875,"end":2101.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2102.21721875,"end":2105.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2105.45721875,"end":2125.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2125.90971875,"end":2132.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2133.84096875,"end":2148.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2149.0790937500005,"end":2167.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2168.0634687500005,"end":2182.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2182.84596875,"end":2187.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2187.60471875,"end":2188.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2190.0684687500006,"end":2191.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2191.6209687500004,"end":2193.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2194.1015937500006,"end":2213.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2213.8622187500005,"end":2221.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2221.2872187500006,"end":2229.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2229.8934687500005,"end":2231.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2231.7497187500003,"end":2237.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2238.41534375,"end":2244.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2244.8278437500003,"end":2251.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2251.51034375,"end":2256.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2256.5222187500003,"end":2266.8328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2267.87909375,"end":2269.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2269.8365937500002,"end":2276.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2276.1140937500004,"end":2276.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":2277.5147187500006,"end":2277.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2277.97034375,"end":2285.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2286.03659375,"end":2311.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2311.46721875,"end":2326.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2326.82346875,"end":2332.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2333.65784375,"end":2350.3809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2351.2247187500006,"end":2372.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2372.75721875,"end":2392.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2392.63596875,"end":2401.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2402.0184687500005,"end":2405.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2406.64221875,"end":2412.1940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2412.2615937500004,"end":2423.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2424.10784375,"end":2439.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2439.83534375,"end":2442.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2442.78846875,"end":2451.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2451.71534375,"end":2469.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2469.8222187500005,"end":2470.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2470.6490937500002,"end":2472.9609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2473.29846875,"end":2477.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2477.7872187500006,"end":2489.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2490.10596875,"end":2507.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2507.8415937500004,"end":2513.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2513.42721875,"end":2518.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2518.6247187500003,"end":2520.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2521.42596875,"end":2532.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2532.8503437500003,"end":2536.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2537.59221875,"end":2589.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2589.90471875,"end":2594.2078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2595.4228437500005,"end":2625.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2625.94971875,"end":2663.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2663.8340937500006,"end":2685.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2686.37909375,"end":2688.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2689.4840937500003,"end":2694.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2694.83346875,"end":2699.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2699.9803437500004,"end":2706.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2707.5909687500007,"end":2709.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2711.57346875,"end":2719.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2720.14596875,"end":2723.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2723.7403437500006,"end":2728.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2728.8365937500002,"end":2731.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2732.07659375,"end":2734.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2734.3884687500004,"end":2737.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2751.4490937500004,"end":2753.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2753.45721875,"end":2754.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2758.16534375,"end":2758.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2758.6209687500004,"end":2759.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2759.4647187500004,"end":2766.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2767.27784375,"end":2772.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2774.02784375,"end":2776.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2776.67721875,"end":2778.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2778.95534375,"end":2786.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2786.86971875,"end":2792.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2792.1853437500004,"end":2792.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2792.2022187500006,"end":2792.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2792.4384687500005,"end":2815.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2815.5909687500007,"end":2816.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2815.86096875,"end":2825.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2825.8678437500002,"end":2826.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2825.90159375,"end":2826.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2826.45846875,"end":2826.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2826.64409375,"end":2846.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2846.6747187500005,"end":2848.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2847.11346875,"end":2869.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2851.3659687500003,"end":2851.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2869.6415937500005,"end":2871.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2872.4090937500005,"end":2872.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2872.4597187500003,"end":2872.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2873.5397187500002,"end":2873.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2873.57346875,"end":2874.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2874.2147187500004,"end":2879.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2876.2734687500006,"end":2877.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2877.43784375,"end":2877.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2879.80034375,"end":2887.7315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2885.4872187500005,"end":2895.8653437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2895.8653437500006,"end":2899.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2896.13534375,"end":2897.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2899.1559687500003,"end":2900.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2900.6747187500005,"end":2902.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2903.47596875,"end":2910.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2911.23846875,"end":2913.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2913.48284375,"end":2920.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2920.89096875,"end":2932.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2932.4840937500003,"end":2938.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2938.1709687500006,"end":2949.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2942.1534687500007,"end":2942.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2949.8484687500004,"end":2955.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2955.9403437500005,"end":2968.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2968.3434687500003,"end":2970.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2970.2165937500004,"end":2988.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2988.88034375,"end":3005.1647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3005.5359687500004,"end":3008.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3009.73784375,"end":3010.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3010.88534375,"end":3011.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3011.7628437500007,"end":3015.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3016.96034375,"end":3018.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3018.2090937500006,"end":3023.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3023.03534375,"end":3023.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3023.9297187500006,"end":3026.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3023.94659375,"end":3032.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3032.9747187500006,"end":3052.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3054.45659375,"end":3054.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3055.2159687500007,"end":3056.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3056.49846875,"end":3062.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3056.6503437500005,"end":3059.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3062.5565937500005,"end":3062.7253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3063.11346875,"end":3063.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3063.5184687500005,"end":3064.2440937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3065.0709687500002,"end":3066.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3066.25221875,"end":3066.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3066.6403437500003,"end":3066.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3067.3153437500005,"end":3068.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3068.6990937500004,"end":3072.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3071.26409375,"end":3075.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3077.3222187500005,"end":3086.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3087.3122187500003,"end":3088.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3090.2147187500004,"end":3091.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3091.39596875,"end":3091.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3092.5603437500004,"end":3092.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3094.53471875,"end":3106.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3107.8828437500006,"end":3113.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3114.2615937500004,"end":3125.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3124.0828437500004,"end":3124.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3125.98971875,"end":3126.0234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3126.27659375,"end":3137.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3129.66846875,"end":3130.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3138.08909375,"end":3144.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3143.82659375,"end":3144.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3145.3622187500005,"end":3145.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3145.4803437500004,"end":3149.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3148.72034375,"end":3152.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3152.68596875,"end":3153.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3153.34409375,"end":3159.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3158.87909375,"end":3174.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3175.3153437500005,"end":3178.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3177.10409375,"end":3179.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3178.96034375,"end":3186.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3186.38534375,"end":3195.0928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3195.5822187500007,"end":3202.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3203.24346875,"end":3204.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3205.2684687500005,"end":3214.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3214.9884687500007,"end":3229.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3230.0240937500002,"end":3252.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3249.66659375,"end":3252.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3252.7547187500004,"end":3258.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3259.25159375,"end":3263.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3264.22971875,"end":3270.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3270.2878437500003,"end":3278.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3278.7253437500003,"end":3279.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3282.99471875,"end":3284.7159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3286.8253437500007,"end":3288.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3296.49471875,"end":3297.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3297.8278437500003,"end":3299.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3299.3972187500003,"end":3300.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3300.27471875,"end":3302.8397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3302.9578437500004,"end":3304.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3303.0759687500004,"end":3303.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3304.1559687500003,"end":3305.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3305.8603437500005,"end":3306.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3306.5859687500006,"end":3306.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3307.0078437500006,"end":3308.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3307.0753437500007,"end":3307.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3307.14284375,"end":3307.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3307.81784375,"end":3307.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3308.0878437500005,"end":3308.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3308.12159375,"end":3308.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3308.2734687500006,"end":3308.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3308.3915937500005,"end":3308.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3308.7965937500003,"end":3308.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3311.8678437500002,"end":3312.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3312.03659375,"end":3312.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3313.67346875,"end":3313.7072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3313.7072187500007,"end":3314.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3314.51721875,"end":3315.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3315.4284687500003,"end":3316.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3316.62659375,"end":3319.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3320.1872187500003,"end":3323.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3323.4440937500003,"end":3324.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3324.64221875,"end":3330.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3330.97034375,"end":3333.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3334.4803437500004,"end":3336.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3336.85971875,"end":3340.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3340.9265937500004,"end":3341.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3341.8378437500005,"end":3342.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3343.5759687500004,"end":3344.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3345.12846875,"end":3346.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3347.22096875,"end":3348.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3348.73971875,"end":3352.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3352.72221875,"end":3363.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3363.8934687500005,"end":3366.5597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3367.16721875,"end":3381.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3382.42221875,"end":3383.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3384.24471875,"end":3385.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3385.7634687500004,"end":3394.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3394.72409375,"end":3395.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3397.25534375,"end":3399.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3399.78659375,"end":3400.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3401.23784375,"end":3402.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3403.16159375,"end":3405.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3406.58721875,"end":3407.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3407.6503437500005,"end":3408.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3408.8484687500004,"end":3410.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3412.37534375,"end":3414.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3414.18096875,"end":3415.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3415.98659375,"end":3417.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3417.31971875,"end":3417.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3420.64409375,"end":3421.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3421.35284375,"end":3424.1034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3424.13721875,"end":3427.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3427.9509687500004,"end":3450.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3434.7178437500006,"end":3437.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3450.7997187500005,"end":3452.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3452.6728437500005,"end":3454.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3454.7653437500003,"end":3455.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3457.2628437500007,"end":3459.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3459.7097187500003,"end":3465.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3460.7897187500002,"end":3461.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3462.7978437500005,"end":3464.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3464.9747187500006,"end":3465.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3465.5653437500005,"end":3480.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3480.01034375,"end":3488.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3488.7178437500006,"end":3489.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3489.27471875,"end":3500.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3499.65284375,"end":3500.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3500.98596875,"end":3501.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3501.0028437500005,"end":3501.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3501.0197187500007,"end":3501.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3501.9647187500004,"end":3502.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3502.9265937500004,"end":3503.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3505.13721875,"end":3506.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3507.17909375,"end":3508.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3508.7315937500007,"end":3510.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3510.90846875,"end":3512.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3513.5409687500005,"end":3519.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3520.91534375,"end":3533.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3533.7740937500002,"end":3534.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3535.02284375,"end":3542.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3543.71346875,"end":3546.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3546.76784375,"end":3549.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3549.60284375,"end":3557.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3557.9728437500007,"end":3562.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3563.11971875,"end":3581.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3581.68221875,"end":3591.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3591.80721875,"end":3609.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3609.94784375,"end":3619.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3619.75221875,"end":3629.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3630.31596875,"end":3632.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3632.4590937500006,"end":3633.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3633.97784375,"end":3638.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3639.6309687500006,"end":3641.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3641.4872187500005,"end":3654.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3654.97034375,"end":3657.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3657.90659375,"end":3658.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3658.58159375,"end":3660.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3660.57284375,"end":3663.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3663.4415937500007,"end":3665.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3665.1628437500003,"end":3677.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3675.7772187500004,"end":3709.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3709.9659687500007,"end":3726.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3726.48659375,"end":3735.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3735.66659375,"end":3736.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3737.77596875,"end":3746.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3746.02784375,"end":3746.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3746.93909375,"end":3751.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3746.9728437500007,"end":3748.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3750.9384687500005,"end":3750.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3750.95534375,"end":3751.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3751.02284375,"end":3751.1915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3751.1915937500007,"end":3751.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3751.74846875,"end":3752.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3751.7653437500003,"end":3751.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3751.81596875,"end":3752.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3752.8622187500005,"end":3752.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3752.89596875,"end":3752.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3752.9297187500006,"end":3753.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3753.4022187500004,"end":3753.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3753.4528437500003,"end":3763.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3753.79034375,"end":3753.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3763.9490937500004,"end":3764.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3764.9615937500002,"end":3767.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3765.48471875,"end":3766.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3767.5097187500005,"end":3768.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.08346875,"end":3768.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3768.1172187500006,"end":3768.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.2184687500003,"end":3768.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3768.31971875,"end":3768.3703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.3703437500008,"end":3768.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3768.6572187500005,"end":3768.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.7078437500004,"end":3768.7753437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3768.7753437500005,"end":3768.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.80909375,"end":3768.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3768.85971875,"end":3768.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3768.9440937500003,"end":3769.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3769.0622187500003,"end":3769.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3769.1297187500004,"end":3769.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3769.1803437500002,"end":3769.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3769.8047187500006,"end":3771.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3770.3278437500003,"end":3784.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3774.88409375,"end":3775.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3776.7740937500002,"end":3778.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3781.8534687500005,"end":3796.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3796.5009687500005,"end":3803.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3799.2009687500004,"end":3801.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3801.1922187500004,"end":3801.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3803.3522187500002,"end":3809.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3810.08534375,"end":3810.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3810.1022187500002,"end":3810.2540937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3810.2540937500007,"end":3817.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3810.27096875,"end":3810.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3810.43971875,"end":3810.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3810.5409687500005,"end":3810.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3810.5915937500004,"end":3810.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3810.7265937500006,"end":3810.7940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3817.7634687500004,"end":3830.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3828.9684687500003,"end":3828.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3828.9853437500005,"end":3829.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3829.13721875,"end":3829.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3830.5040937500007,"end":3833.8790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3834.1153437500006,"end":3834.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3835.7353437500005,"end":3837.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3838.58721875,"end":3839.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3840.9159687500005,"end":3842.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3843.48096875,"end":3843.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3843.4978437500004,"end":3844.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3844.86471875,"end":3847.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3847.0753437500007,"end":3848.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3849.3534687500005,"end":3860.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3859.1072187500004,"end":3859.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3860.84534375,"end":3861.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3860.9972187500007,"end":3868.5234687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3868.79346875,"end":3878.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3879.34034375,"end":3897.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3892.60409375,"end":3892.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3892.7559687500006,"end":3893.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3893.12721875,"end":3893.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3893.8190937500003,"end":3893.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3893.9372187500003,"end":3894.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3894.0215937500006,"end":3894.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3894.8653437500006,"end":3894.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3894.88221875,"end":3894.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3894.9834687500006,"end":3895.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3895.2028437500003,"end":3895.3547187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3896.87346875,"end":3896.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3896.8903437500003,"end":3897.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":3897.4303437500002,"end":3897.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3898.49346875,"end":3899.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3900.13034375,"end":3900.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3901.32846875,"end":3903.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3903.5897187500004,"end":3905.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3906.2897187500002,"end":3910.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3910.8797187500004,"end":3912.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3912.95534375,"end":3923.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3923.6034687500005,"end":3929.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3928.1934687500006,"end":3929.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3929.12159375,"end":3929.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3929.96534375,"end":3942.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3933.5597187500007,"end":3933.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3935.63534375,"end":3935.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3935.7703437500004,"end":3936.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3942.9928437500002,"end":3943.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3943.11096875,"end":3956.2565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3946.7390937500004,"end":3947.4815937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3947.4815937500007,"end":3947.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3957.03284375,"end":3958.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3960.81284375,"end":3962.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3970.4147187500002,"end":3977.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":3976.7597187500005,"end":3976.7765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3976.7765937500008,"end":3978.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3979.8984687500006,"end":3980.5734687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3980.89409375,"end":4013.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4014.0197187500007,"end":4024.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4024.4315937500005,"end":4042.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4043.14596875,"end":4048.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4048.02284375,"end":4065.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4065.99471875,"end":4080.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4080.9628437500005,"end":4082.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4083.0722187500005,"end":4086.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4086.97034375,"end":4108.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4096.8759687500005,"end":4097.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4097.044718749999,"end":4097.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4108.165343750001,"end":4108.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4108.401593750001,"end":4112.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4113.599093750001,"end":4129.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4129.3603437500005,"end":4133.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4131.85784375,"end":4183.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4184.575343750001,"end":4191.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4192.65846875,"end":4196.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4196.69159375,"end":4198.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4198.69971875,"end":4202.800343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4204.18409375,"end":4207.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4208.08221875,"end":4215.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4215.608468750001,"end":4224.737843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4225.27784375,"end":4225.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4225.294718749999,"end":4230.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4230.9647187499995,"end":4234.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4235.50409375,"end":4236.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4236.972218749999,"end":4244.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4244.937218749999,"end":4271.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4271.63346875,"end":4275.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4276.32471875,"end":4290.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4291.309718750001,"end":4294.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4294.9715937500005,"end":4295.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4295.3934687500005,"end":4296.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4296.929093750001,"end":4305.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4308.741593750001,"end":4319.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4318.545968750001,"end":4331.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4320.554093750001,"end":4320.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4331.91096875,"end":4345.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4345.495343750001,"end":4348.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4348.718468749999,"end":4400.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4349.03909375,"end":4349.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4350.979718750001,"end":4351.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4351.013468749999,"end":4351.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4351.09784375,"end":4351.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4351.18221875,"end":4351.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4351.249718749999,"end":4351.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4400.9803437499995,"end":4411.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4411.628468749999,"end":4456.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4456.499093750001,"end":4457.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4457.5115937499995,"end":4458.034718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4457.714093750001,"end":4463.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4463.73846875,"end":4466.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4466.759093750001,"end":4467.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4467.95721875,"end":4483.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4484.292218750001,"end":4491.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4492.206593749999,"end":4507.815968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4508.153468750001,"end":4508.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4509.38534375,"end":4513.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4514.68409375,"end":4517.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4518.85221875,"end":4523.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4523.8134687500005,"end":4529.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4529.145968750001,"end":4529.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4529.55096875,"end":4530.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4530.732218749999,"end":4530.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4530.782843749999,"end":4531.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4531.491593750001,"end":4533.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4531.592843750001,"end":4534.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4534.917218750001,"end":4540.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4535.03534375,"end":4535.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4540.671593749999,"end":4540.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4540.772843750001,"end":4541.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4540.80659375,"end":4541.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4541.26221875,"end":4541.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4541.97096875,"end":4557.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4557.61409375,"end":4559.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4559.97659375,"end":4574.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4575.029093749999,"end":4580.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4581.374093750001,"end":4581.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4581.39096875,"end":4588.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4583.31471875,"end":4585.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4587.06096875,"end":4589.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4588.90034375,"end":4592.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4592.62971875,"end":4594.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4595.144093749999,"end":4601.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4601.55659375,"end":4607.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4607.20971875,"end":4622.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4623.02159375,"end":4642.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4642.967843750001,"end":4644.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4646.190968749999,"end":4648.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4655.08409375,"end":4658.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4658.762843750001,"end":4659.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4665.76596875,"end":4666.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4666.55909375,"end":4667.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4668.0272187499995,"end":4669.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4670.187218749999,"end":4675.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4676.279093749999,"end":4676.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4677.1903437500005,"end":4678.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4678.202843749999,"end":4679.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4680.126593749999,"end":4684.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4684.41284375,"end":4687.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4687.264718750001,"end":4695.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4695.95534375,"end":4699.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4699.65096875,"end":4701.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4701.70971875,"end":4702.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4703.700968749999,"end":4706.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4706.991593750001,"end":4716.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4717.774718750001,"end":4718.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4719.360968749999,"end":4721.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4722.63471875,"end":4724.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4724.22096875,"end":4726.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4727.44409375,"end":4728.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4728.557843750001,"end":4734.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4735.915343750001,"end":4738.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4738.716593749999,"end":4739.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4739.3915937500005,"end":4739.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4739.64471875,"end":4739.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4739.69534375,"end":4739.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4739.72909375,"end":4739.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4739.77971875,"end":4739.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4739.796593749999,"end":4739.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4739.96534375,"end":4742.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4741.65284375,"end":4742.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4742.02409375,"end":4742.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4742.20971875,"end":4742.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4742.243468750001,"end":4742.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4742.7665937500005,"end":4750.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4750.815968750001,"end":4755.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4755.7772187499995,"end":4761.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4761.464093750001,"end":4764.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4765.345343749999,"end":4771.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4771.52159375,"end":4774.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4775.08221875,"end":4778.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4778.91284375,"end":4779.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4780.397843750001,"end":4782.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4783.33409375,"end":4784.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4785.29159375,"end":4786.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4787.7215937500005,"end":4788.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4789.18971875,"end":4790.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4791.19784375,"end":4791.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4792.14284375,"end":4794.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4795.19721875,"end":4796.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4797.0028437500005,"end":4799.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4799.804093750001,"end":4807.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4808.35971875,"end":4810.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4810.9247187500005,"end":4817.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4818.0965937500005,"end":4819.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4819.395968750001,"end":4820.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4821.792218750001,"end":4823.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4824.374093750001,"end":4827.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4827.71534375,"end":4829.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4830.314093749999,"end":4831.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4831.93409375,"end":4832.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4832.760968750001,"end":4832.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4833.19971875,"end":4834.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4835.342843750001,"end":4837.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4837.401593750001,"end":4839.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4840.08471875,"end":4846.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4846.64909375,"end":4848.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4848.80909375,"end":4850.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4850.800343750001,"end":4852.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4852.3865937499995,"end":4857.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4858.157843749999,"end":4861.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4862.1572187500005,"end":4864.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4864.637843750001,"end":4866.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4867.18596875,"end":4871.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4872.180968750001,"end":4873.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4873.59846875,"end":4874.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4875.57284375,"end":4878.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4878.71159375,"end":4880.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4881.0740937499995,"end":4884.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4885.309718750001,"end":4887.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4887.790343750001,"end":4888.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4888.85346875,"end":4927.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4928.02034375,"end":4931.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4931.378468750001,"end":4934.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4935.20909375,"end":4939.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4939.3603437500005,"end":4940.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4940.96346875,"end":4940.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4941.11534375,"end":4950.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4950.784718750001,"end":4951.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4951.8309687500005,"end":4955.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4956.20159375,"end":4958.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4958.513468749999,"end":4960.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4961.55096875,"end":4964.335343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4964.892218749999,"end":4971.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4971.827843749999,"end":4973.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4974.05534375,"end":4985.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4985.88471875,"end":4986.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4986.86346875,"end":4989.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4990.52534375,"end":5000.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5001.1903437500005,"end":5003.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5004.44721875,"end":5007.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5007.58596875,"end":5010.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5010.606593750001,"end":5013.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5013.9647187499995,"end":5015.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5015.68596875,"end":5019.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5020.19159375,"end":5021.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5022.90846875,"end":5026.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5026.99221875,"end":5032.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5032.544093750001,"end":5033.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5033.30346875,"end":5037.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5038.75409375,"end":5041.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5042.702843749999,"end":5056.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5056.776593750001,"end":5060.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5060.77596875,"end":5062.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5063.17221875,"end":5065.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5066.1590937500005,"end":5067.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5067.880343750001,"end":5070.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5070.9853437500005,"end":5082.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5082.20721875,"end":5082.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5082.409718750001,"end":5084.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5084.654093749999,"end":5132.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5133.169718749999,"end":5142.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5141.185343749999,"end":5147.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5147.02409375,"end":5152.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5153.11596875,"end":5154.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5154.56721875,"end":5155.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5154.887843750001,"end":5159.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5159.96721875,"end":5161.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5160.30471875,"end":5160.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5160.72659375,"end":5162.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5162.59971875,"end":5165.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5162.616593750001,"end":5163.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5165.147843750001,"end":5167.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5168.2528437500005,"end":5170.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5170.61534375,"end":5171.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5170.868468750001,"end":5174.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5173.55159375,"end":5174.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5174.530343750001,"end":5175.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5175.036593750001,"end":5175.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5176.2684687500005,"end":5176.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5176.28534375,"end":5189.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5177.16284375,"end":5178.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5185.93784375,"end":5185.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5185.9715937500005,"end":5186.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5186.96721875,"end":5187.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5187.30471875,"end":5187.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5188.637843750001,"end":5188.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5188.65471875,"end":5189.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5189.279093749999,"end":5189.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5189.63346875,"end":5226.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5189.73471875,"end":5189.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5189.8865937499995,"end":5189.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5227.09596875,"end":5227.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5228.108468750001,"end":5230.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5232.090968750001,"end":5233.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5235.077843749999,"end":5236.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5254.0115937499995,"end":5254.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5254.956593750001,"end":5256.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5256.930968750001,"end":5257.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5263.917218750001,"end":5264.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5265.06471875,"end":5336.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5336.665343750001,"end":5341.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5339.50034375,"end":5340.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5341.862843750001,"end":5353.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5353.304093750001,"end":5355.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5353.489718750001,"end":5353.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5355.61596875,"end":5379.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5379.1903437500005,"end":5415.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5416.0790937500005,"end":5418.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5418.81284375,"end":5418.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5419.639718750001,"end":5420.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5420.989718750001,"end":5435.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5436.312218749999,"end":5481.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5480.102843750001,"end":5480.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5481.80721875,"end":5496.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5496.690968750001,"end":5504.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5504.82471875,"end":5504.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5505.90471875,"end":5506.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5507.27159375,"end":5508.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5508.925343750001,"end":5585.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5527.673468749999,"end":5528.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5549.7459687499995,"end":5549.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5549.77971875,"end":5550.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5552.20971875,"end":5552.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5552.378468750001,"end":5552.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5582.753468750001,"end":5583.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5583.66471875,"end":5584.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5586.600968750001,"end":5624.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5624.569718750001,"end":5627.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5628.788468750001,"end":5647.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5648.430968750001,"end":5653.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5652.85221875,"end":5655.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5654.69159375,"end":5654.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5655.38346875,"end":5670.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5670.43596875,"end":5678.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5678.02971875,"end":5694.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":5695.2928437499995,"end":5747.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":5747.97659375,"end":5748.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5750.389718750001,"end":5756.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5763.450968749999,"end":5768.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5775.3309687500005,"end":5781.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5781.33846875,"end":5824.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5824.589093750001,"end":5828.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5828.655968749999,"end":5851.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5851.89284375,"end":5855.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5856.16221875,"end":5904.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5904.6103437500005,"end":5905.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5906.1122187500005,"end":5925.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5924.97846875,"end":5925.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5925.95721875,"end":6008.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5931.91409375,"end":5932.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5932.13346875,"end":5932.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5939.0184687500005,"end":5939.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5939.811593750001,"end":5939.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5943.456593750001,"end":5943.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6009.370343750001,"end":6010.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6010.60221875,"end":6014.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6014.517218750001,"end":6020.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6015.4959687499995,"end":6015.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6020.35596875,"end":6066.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6067.015343749999,"end":6080.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6080.73471875,"end":6096.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6097.05284375,"end":6101.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6101.575343750001,"end":6130.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6130.88721875,"end":6133.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6134.009093750001,"end":6148.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6145.23096875,"end":6145.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6148.909718750001,"end":6191.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6191.569718750001,"end":6202.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6203.010968750001,"end":6212.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6212.663468750001,"end":6228.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6228.44159375,"end":6265.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6265.83659375,"end":6287.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6288.38159375,"end":6289.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6289.64721875,"end":6290.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6309.779093749999,"end":6311.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6315.702218750001,"end":6315.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6315.71909375,"end":6319.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6325.27034375,"end":6337.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6325.624718749999,"end":6326.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6337.52159375,"end":6337.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6337.55534375,"end":6337.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6337.74096875,"end":6344.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6344.87909375,"end":6345.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6345.01409375,"end":6359.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6359.847218750001,"end":6367.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6368.53784375,"end":6369.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6369.364718750001,"end":6370.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6370.03971875,"end":6377.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6377.83596875,"end":6379.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6379.0340937500005,"end":6379.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6379.69221875,"end":6393.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6394.05284375,"end":6398.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6398.794718749999,"end":6418.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6418.99409375,"end":6425.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6426.16596875,"end":6433.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6434.519093750001,"end":6444.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6445.4540937500005,"end":6446.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6446.618468750001,"end":6469.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6470.04096875,"end":6499.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6489.90284375,"end":6490.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6499.57221875,"end":6525.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6525.57659375,"end":6533.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6527.618468750001,"end":6530.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6531.8709687499995,"end":6532.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6533.72721875,"end":6536.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6536.562218749999,"end":6546.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6544.56096875,"end":6544.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6546.0965937500005,"end":6548.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6548.17221875,"end":6558.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6559.731593750001,"end":6575.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6562.718468749999,"end":6563.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6575.6278437500005,"end":6585.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6580.8759687500005,"end":6581.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6585.735968750001,"end":6589.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6590.12346875,"end":6591.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6591.70971875,"end":6599.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6600.61971875,"end":6601.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6601.41284375,"end":6602.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6601.5478437500005,"end":6605.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6605.36159375,"end":6613.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6613.61346875,"end":6620.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6620.49846875,"end":6625.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6625.03784375,"end":6627.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6627.40034375,"end":6629.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6628.716593749999,"end":6629.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6629.661593750001,"end":6642.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6641.474093750001,"end":6641.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6641.5584687499995,"end":6641.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6643.43159375,"end":6646.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6647.565968750001,"end":6650.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6650.97471875,"end":6663.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6663.9853437500005,"end":6666.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6666.702218750001,"end":6667.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6667.394093750001,"end":6667.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6667.545968750001,"end":6667.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6667.83284375,"end":6668.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6668.389718750001,"end":6668.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6668.895968750001,"end":6675.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6673.65471875,"end":6684.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6682.395968750001,"end":6682.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6682.42971875,"end":6683.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6685.18034375,"end":6689.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6689.68596875,"end":6692.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6693.38159375,"end":6693.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6693.786593750001,"end":6702.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6702.02159375,"end":6703.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6705.177218750001,"end":6708.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6705.413468750001,"end":6705.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6705.48096875,"end":6705.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6705.66659375,"end":6707.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6708.56909375,"end":6712.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6712.97346875,"end":6725.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6726.52409375,"end":6728.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6729.1903437500005,"end":6732.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6734.387843750001,"end":6734.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6735.24846875,"end":6735.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6736.0584687499995,"end":6742.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6740.564093750001,"end":6741.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6742.673468750001,"end":6743.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6744.732218749999,"end":6752.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6752.798468750001,"end":6752.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6752.8153437500005,"end":6752.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6752.950343750001,"end":6752.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6752.96721875,"end":6764.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6764.45909375,"end":6766.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6766.4334687499995,"end":6779.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6779.528468750001,"end":6788.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6788.944718750001,"end":6791.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6791.999093750001,"end":6792.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6792.53909375,"end":6795.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6796.60596875,"end":6808.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6798.19221875,"end":6798.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6808.772843750001,"end":6813.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6814.020968750001,"end":6814.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6814.64534375,"end":6815.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6815.944718750001,"end":6821.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6819.977843750001,"end":6823.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6821.530343750001,"end":6828.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6828.4490937499995,"end":6830.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6830.72721875,"end":6834.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6834.507218750001,"end":6834.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6835.013468749999,"end":6843.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6836.1103437500005,"end":6836.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6836.97096875,"end":6837.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6837.122843749999,"end":6837.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6837.25784375,"end":6837.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6844.345343750001,"end":6850.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6850.217843750001,"end":6850.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6850.302218750001,"end":6850.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6850.36971875,"end":6857.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6858.52034375,"end":6858.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6858.53721875,"end":6858.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6858.655343750001,"end":6858.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6858.72284375,"end":6858.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6858.99284375,"end":6865.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6866.26596875,"end":6866.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6866.53596875,"end":6866.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6866.97471875,"end":6867.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6867.075968749999,"end":6867.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6867.970343750001,"end":6868.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6868.729718750001,"end":6871.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6868.84784375,"end":6871.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6871.41284375,"end":6871.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6871.767218750001,"end":6878.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6878.939093750001,"end":6881.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6882.61784375,"end":6883.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6883.950968749999,"end":6884.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6885.30096875,"end":6886.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6887.35971875,"end":6888.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6889.28346875,"end":6890.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6891.07221875,"end":6892.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6892.8778437500005,"end":6896.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6896.8603437500005,"end":6899.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6899.982218749999,"end":6916.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6917.68409375,"end":6918.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6918.966593749999,"end":6922.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6922.1053437499995,"end":6928.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6926.07096875,"end":6926.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6928.97346875,"end":6930.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6931.437218750001,"end":6931.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6932.02784375,"end":6932.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6932.196593750001,"end":6933.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6934.356593750001,"end":6934.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6934.37346875,"end":6934.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6934.390343750001,"end":6934.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6934.4072187500005,"end":6936.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6936.8709687499995,"end":6939.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6939.16596875,"end":6940.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6940.17846875,"end":6941.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6941.20784375,"end":6942.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6943.41846875,"end":6943.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6943.874093750001,"end":6956.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6955.33221875,"end":6961.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6957.222218750001,"end":6957.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6957.34034375,"end":6957.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6957.357218749999,"end":6957.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6957.458468750001,"end":6958.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6958.04909375,"end":6958.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6961.170968750001,"end":6961.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6961.575968749999,"end":6961.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6961.727843750001,"end":6961.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6961.913468750001,"end":6961.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6962.571593750001,"end":6964.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6965.102843750001,"end":6967.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6968.12346875,"end":6968.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6968.22471875,"end":6991.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6991.917218750001,"end":7006.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7007.3915937500005,"end":7007.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7007.982218749999,"end":7014.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7016.622218750001,"end":7018.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7019.08596875,"end":7019.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7020.419093750001,"end":7022.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7022.46096875,"end":7023.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7023.169718749999,"end":7023.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7024.33409375,"end":7024.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7025.17784375,"end":7027.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7027.5740937499995,"end":7031.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7031.59034375,"end":7031.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7031.82659375,"end":7031.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7031.894093750001,"end":7031.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7031.92784375,"end":7032.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7032.19784375,"end":7039.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7037.20971875,"end":7050.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7044.01034375,"end":7044.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7046.03534375,"end":7046.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7046.17034375,"end":7047.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7047.030968750001,"end":7047.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7047.75659375,"end":7047.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7047.8240937499995,"end":7048.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7053.00471875,"end":7058.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7058.87721875,"end":7062.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7061.88096875,"end":7062.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7062.1678437499995,"end":7062.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7062.218468750001,"end":7067.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7062.72471875,"end":7062.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7068.5634687500005,"end":7073.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7073.187218750001,"end":7073.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7073.27159375,"end":7073.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7073.811593750001,"end":7077.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7078.13159375,"end":7081.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7081.5740937499995,"end":7093.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7088.6278437500005,"end":7088.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7092.44159375,"end":7092.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7092.6103437500005,"end":7092.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7093.08284375,"end":7098.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7095.44534375,"end":7096.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7096.79534375,"end":7097.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7098.0272187499995,"end":7103.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7102.482218749999,"end":7103.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7103.9334687499995,"end":7105.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7106.295968750001,"end":7111.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7111.763468749999,"end":7114.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7114.446593750001,"end":7121.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7121.97284375,"end":7123.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7123.13721875,"end":7127.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7127.946593750001,"end":7135.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7129.769093750001,"end":7129.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7135.10159375,"end":7136.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7135.13534375,"end":7135.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7136.21534375,"end":7136.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7136.97471875,"end":7138.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7138.56096875,"end":7139.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7140.06284375,"end":7143.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7143.35346875,"end":7144.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7143.85971875,"end":7161.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7145.22659375,"end":7147.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7148.618468750001,"end":7152.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7161.966593749999,"end":7164.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7163.77221875,"end":7165.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7165.13909375,"end":7167.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7167.366593750001,"end":7170.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7170.43784375,"end":7172.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7172.2772187499995,"end":7191.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7180.7822187500005,"end":7180.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7180.79909375,"end":7181.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7181.153468750001,"end":7181.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7192.27409375,"end":7192.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7192.29096875,"end":7193.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7197.70784375,"end":7204.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7204.60971875,"end":7206.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7217.02971875,"end":7219.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7219.628468750001,"end":7220.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7226.12534375,"end":7226.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7227.407843750001,"end":7232.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7232.58846875,"end":7264.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7264.56659375,"end":7281.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7281.6103437500005,"end":7318.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7319.68034375,"end":7329.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7328.235968750001,"end":7336.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7337.07846875,"end":7337.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7337.939093750001,"end":7338.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7338.225968750001,"end":7348.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7347.372218750001,"end":7347.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7348.215968750001,"end":7359.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7359.75846875,"end":7361.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7362.1209687499995,"end":7365.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7365.512843750001,"end":7369.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7369.529093749999,"end":7382.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7382.708468750001,"end":7406.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7407.177218750001,"end":7413.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7413.792218750001,"end":7427.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7428.591593749999,"end":7431.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7432.202843750001,"end":7436.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7436.894093750001,"end":7439.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7440.01596875,"end":7447.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7447.7615937499995,"end":7452.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7453.161593750001,"end":7455.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7456.064093750001,"end":7511.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7492.46346875,"end":7492.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7492.56471875,"end":7492.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7492.632218750001,"end":7492.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7510.300343750001,"end":7515.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7516.358468750001,"end":7518.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7518.16409375,"end":7529.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7529.68971875,"end":7547.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7537.435343749999,"end":7538.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7541.670968750001,"end":7542.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7546.581593750001,"end":7548.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7548.01596875,"end":7550.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7551.374093750001,"end":7558.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7558.7822187500005,"end":7597.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7598.35409375,"end":7601.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7601.25659375,"end":7601.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7601.27346875,"end":7601.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7601.45909375,"end":7672.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7605.0028437500005,"end":7606.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7672.0809687500005,"end":7700.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7701.20721875,"end":7705.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7705.122218750001,"end":7705.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7706.53971875,"end":7713.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7714.08284375,"end":7731.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7731.53159375,"end":7735.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7735.83471875,"end":7742.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7742.02784375,"end":7742.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7742.247218750001,"end":7744.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7744.66034375,"end":7747.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7747.7822187500005,"end":7748.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7748.92971875,"end":7757.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7757.58659375,"end":7760.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7760.96159375,"end":7814.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7814.97846875,"end":7818.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7818.690968750001,"end":7819.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7819.14659375,"end":7820.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7820.86784375,"end":7821.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7821.1884687500005,"end":7824.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7824.1415937500005,"end":7824.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7824.63096875,"end":7824.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7825.170968750001,"end":7825.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7826.30159375,"end":7826.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7826.50409375,"end":7833.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7833.372218750001,"end":7839.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7839.936593750001,"end":7848.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7845.70784375,"end":7845.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7847.5809687500005,"end":7852.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7853.11596875,"end":7854.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7854.76971875,"end":7865.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7865.36721875,"end":7869.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7869.58596875,"end":7874.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7874.86784375,"end":7877.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7878.360968750001,"end":7882.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7883.001593750001,"end":7885.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7885.38096875,"end":7887.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7887.15284375,"end":7887.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7888.300343750001,"end":7890.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7890.7303437499995,"end":7891.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7891.8778437500005,"end":7892.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7892.468468750001,"end":7894.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7894.32471875,"end":7894.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7894.37534375,"end":7894.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7894.493468750001,"end":7894.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7894.8309687500005,"end":7894.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7894.864718750001,"end":7894.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7894.89846875,"end":7894.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7894.915343750001,"end":7894.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7895.708468750001,"end":7896.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7896.417218750001,"end":7896.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7897.345343750001,"end":7897.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7898.93159375,"end":7901.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7901.429093750001,"end":7901.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7901.44596875,"end":7901.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7901.564093750001,"end":7902.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7903.92659375,"end":7905.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7906.170968750001,"end":7907.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7997.751593750001,"end":7997.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7997.97096875,"end":8001.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8001.497843749999,"end":8002.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8025.966593750001,"end":8028.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8028.16034375,"end":8029.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8030.4384687500005,"end":8032.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8033.27346875,"end":8033.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8069.149718750001,"end":8070.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8070.972218750001,"end":8071.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8071.579718750001,"end":8071.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8071.967843750001,"end":8080.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8081.198468750001,"end":8081.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8083.679093750001,"end":8084.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8117.96909375,"end":8118.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8119.673468750001,"end":8121.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8121.24284375,"end":8121.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8121.968468750001,"end":8122.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8122.305968750001,"end":8122.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8122.997843750001,"end":8123.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8123.993468750001,"end":8124.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8124.972218750001,"end":8129.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8129.899718750001,"end":8138.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8144.31096875,"end":8144.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8144.96909375,"end":8146.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8147.145968750001,"end":8148.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8149.964093750001,"end":8150.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8150.284718750001,"end":8150.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8240.515343750001,"end":8241.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8317.97159375,"end":8318.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":8322.747218750003,"end":8323.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8514.71721875,"end":8516.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8517.97409375,"end":8520.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8530.12409375,"end":8534.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8534.66346875,"end":8535.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8543.860343750002,"end":8544.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8545.63221875,"end":8554.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8554.49159375,"end":8562.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8563.65471875,"end":8568.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8568.379718750002,"end":8570.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8570.97846875,"end":8572.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8572.227218750002,"end":8576.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8576.715968750003,"end":8577.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8577.644093750001,"end":8589.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8590.38471875,"end":8591.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8591.86971875,"end":8593.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8593.742843750002,"end":8595.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8595.750968750002,"end":8597.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8598.214718750001,"end":8600.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8600.98221875,"end":8605.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8606.80409375,"end":8608.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8608.390343750001,"end":8608.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8608.96409375,"end":8613.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8613.891593750002,"end":8615.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8616.01784375,"end":8627.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8626.63221875,"end":8627.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8627.88096875,"end":8627.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8627.914718750002,"end":8627.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8628.99471875,"end":8631.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8632.352843750003,"end":8646.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8646.08909375,"end":8647.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8647.28721875,"end":8649.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8649.76784375,"end":8654.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8655.285968750002,"end":8657.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8657.14221875,"end":8657.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8657.378468750001,"end":8658.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8658.35721875,"end":8658.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8659.184093750002,"end":8664.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8664.668468750002,"end":8664.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8664.887843750003,"end":8681.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8681.47596875,"end":8692.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8692.84971875,"end":8696.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8696.460968750001,"end":8725.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8725.85721875,"end":8726.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8726.49846875,"end":8727.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8728.253468750001,"end":8731.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8731.594718750002,"end":8732.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8732.961593750002,"end":8735.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8735.89784375,"end":8742.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8742.614093750002,"end":8745.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8745.617843750002,"end":8758.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8745.73596875,"end":8746.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8758.13909375,"end":8763.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8761.88534375,"end":8763.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8763.657218750002,"end":8764.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8764.51784375,"end":8764.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8764.77096875,"end":8776.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8776.38096875,"end":8778.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8778.827843750001,"end":8791.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8791.973468750002,"end":8792.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8792.41221875,"end":8793.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8793.45846875,"end":8804.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8804.07284375,"end":8814.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8809.101593750001,"end":8809.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8814.535343750002,"end":8816.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8816.62784375,"end":8817.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8817.589718750001,"end":8834.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8834.32971875,"end":8837.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8836.55721875,"end":8837.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8837.805968750003,"end":8837.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8837.87346875,"end":8842.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8843.813468750002,"end":8846.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8846.09159375,"end":8846.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8846.42909375,"end":8848.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8848.20096875,"end":8861.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8848.285343750002,"end":8848.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8861.97096875,"end":8863.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8863.590968750003,"end":8868.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8867.72534375,"end":8871.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8871.117218750001,"end":8871.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8871.42096875,"end":8874.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8871.437843750002,"end":8871.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8874.42471875,"end":8876.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8876.078468750002,"end":8883.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8883.90846875,"end":8889.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8889.426593750002,"end":8889.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8889.46034375,"end":8890.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8889.578468750002,"end":8889.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8892.02534375,"end":8894.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8894.759093750003,"end":8900.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8900.800343750001,"end":8902.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8902.74096875,"end":8910.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8911.566593750002,"end":8916.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8916.527843750002,"end":8917.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8917.55721875,"end":8917.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8917.590968750003,"end":8920.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8921.52284375,"end":8926.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8926.551593750002,"end":8931.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8931.968468750001,"end":8932.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8932.00221875,"end":8932.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8932.019093750001,"end":8932.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8932.035968750002,"end":8932.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8932.440968750001,"end":8934.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8934.22971875,"end":8934.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8934.28034375,"end":8940.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8940.76034375,"end":8945.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8943.12284375,"end":8943.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8945.738468750002,"end":8945.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8945.75534375,"end":8945.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8945.789093750001,"end":8949.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8949.77159375,"end":8951.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8951.94846875,"end":8955.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8956.09971875,"end":8957.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8957.11221875,"end":8960.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8961.347843750002,"end":8973.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8973.46409375,"end":8976.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8976.61971875,"end":8977.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8977.328468750002,"end":8980.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8978.070968750002,"end":8978.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8979.57284375,"end":8980.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8980.652843750002,"end":8980.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8980.973468750002,"end":8992.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8981.04096875,"end":8981.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8992.81971875,"end":8992.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8992.85346875,"end":8995.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8995.215968750003,"end":8997.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8997.679718750001,"end":8997.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8998.86096875,"end":9000.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9000.81846875,"end":9002.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9002.18534375,"end":9013.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9003.434093750002,"end":9004.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9014.031593750002,"end":9014.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9015.26346875,"end":9017.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9017.929718750001,"end":9019.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9019.937843750002,"end":9022.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9022.90784375,"end":9024.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9024.76409375,"end":9025.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9025.118468750003,"end":9030.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9030.754718750002,"end":9030.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9030.97409375,"end":9030.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9031.328468750002,"end":9032.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9032.796593750001,"end":9033.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9034.112843750001,"end":9034.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9035.243468750003,"end":9039.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9039.816593750002,"end":9040.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9040.99784375,"end":9042.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9043.10721875,"end":9043.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9044.22096875,"end":9046.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9047.106593750003,"end":9057.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9057.67034375,"end":9060.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9059.492843750002,"end":9060.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9060.67409375,"end":9067.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9067.79534375,"end":9073.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9068.301593750002,"end":9069.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9073.769093750001,"end":9073.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9073.836593750002,"end":9073.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9073.87034375,"end":9073.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9074.64659375,"end":9075.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9075.945968750002,"end":9076.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9077.937218750001,"end":9080.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9080.97471875,"end":9080.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9081.109718750002,"end":9081.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9081.12659375,"end":9082.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9082.172843750002,"end":9082.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9082.425968750002,"end":9082.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9083.99534375,"end":9084.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9085.24409375,"end":9088.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9088.26471875,"end":9088.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9088.922843750002,"end":9094.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9095.09909375,"end":9099.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9100.12784375,"end":9102.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9103.249718750001,"end":9108.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9108.97034375,"end":9109.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9109.071593750003,"end":9115.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9115.19721875,"end":9115.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9115.31534375,"end":9117.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9117.812843750002,"end":9118.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9120.15846875,"end":9122.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9123.449093750001,"end":9125.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9125.625968750002,"end":9127.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9127.49909375,"end":9129.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9129.203468750002,"end":9129.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9129.827843750001,"end":9130.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9130.65471875,"end":9136.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9136.577843750001,"end":9140.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9140.644718750002,"end":9147.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9147.42846875,"end":9156.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9153.992843750002,"end":9154.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9155.22471875,"end":9155.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9155.39346875,"end":9160.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9157.82346875,"end":9159.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9161.012843750003,"end":9167.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9167.99909375,"end":9168.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9168.25221875,"end":9174.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9175.37346875,"end":9181.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9181.16159375,"end":9181.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9181.49909375,"end":9189.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9181.70159375,"end":9181.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9189.312218750001,"end":9196.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9197.648468750001,"end":9205.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9201.68159375,"end":9202.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9205.12409375,"end":9205.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9205.44471875,"end":9207.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9207.21659375,"end":9208.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9208.684718750003,"end":9209.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9209.00534375,"end":9210.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9211.38471875,"end":9211.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9212.565968750001,"end":9223.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9223.83846875,"end":9231.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9231.870968750001,"end":9237.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9238.48596875,"end":9241.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9241.86096875,"end":9243.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9243.784718750001,"end":9244.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9244.66221875,"end":9248.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9248.45909375,"end":9248.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9249.066593750002,"end":9249.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9249.285968750002,"end":9251.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9251.14221875,"end":9251.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9251.175968750002,"end":9251.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9251.294093750003,"end":9255.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9255.394718750002,"end":9265.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9266.144093750001,"end":9267.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9267.899093750002,"end":9268.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9268.13534375,"end":9268.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9268.75971875,"end":9275.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9276.117218750001,"end":9279.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9279.930968750003,"end":9280.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9280.47096875,"end":9282.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9283.187843750002,"end":9284.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9284.90909375,"end":9285.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9285.78659375,"end":9286.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9287.085968750001,"end":9288.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9288.68909375,"end":9289.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9289.49909375,"end":9292.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9292.50284375,"end":9293.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9294.46034375,"end":9303.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9304.56846875,"end":9311.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9312.36471875,"end":9314.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9314.28846875,"end":9317.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9318.524093750002,"end":9325.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9326.387843750003,"end":9328.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9328.98659375,"end":9333.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9334.504718750002,"end":9338.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9339.499718750001,"end":9348.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9348.274718750003,"end":9350.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9350.586593750002,"end":9350.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9350.60346875,"end":9351.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9350.637218750002,"end":9353.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9352.898468750001,"end":9354.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9354.214718750001,"end":9355.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9354.231593750003,"end":9354.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9356.340968750003,"end":9362.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9363.15846875,"end":9365.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9365.605343750001,"end":9369.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9369.824093750001,"end":9376.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9375.12284375,"end":9376.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9376.742843750002,"end":9376.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9376.793468750002,"end":9376.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9376.86096875,"end":9376.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9376.962218750003,"end":9377.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9378.734093750001,"end":9381.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9381.687218750001,"end":9384.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9384.910343750002,"end":9385.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9386.78346875,"end":9389.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9390.25971875,"end":9398.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9398.66346875,"end":9407.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9405.41346875,"end":9405.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9407.03346875,"end":9407.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9408.754718750002,"end":9410.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9417.37784375,"end":9420.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9429.59534375,"end":9430.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9430.945343750001,"end":9431.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9432.008468750002,"end":9432.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9432.953468750002,"end":9433.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9439.028468750003,"end":9440.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9441.27284375,"end":9470.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9471.664718750002,"end":9483.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9483.831593750001,"end":9485.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9485.637218750002,"end":9487.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9488.168468750002,"end":9488.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9489.282218750002,"end":9490.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9491.35784375,"end":9492.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9492.809093750002,"end":9494.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9494.766593750002,"end":9495.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9495.930968750003,"end":9497.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9497.68596875,"end":9498.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9499.99784375,"end":9501.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9501.347843750002,"end":9508.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9509.532218750002,"end":9512.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9512.907218750002,"end":9513.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9513.88596875,"end":9515.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9515.691593750002,"end":9516.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9517.530968750001,"end":9518.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9518.98221875,"end":9519.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9521.90159375,"end":9523.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9524.51721875,"end":9526.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9526.57596875,"end":9526.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9526.879718750002,"end":9528.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9528.95534375,"end":9529.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9530.102843750003,"end":9532.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9533.34284375,"end":9541.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9543.265343750001,"end":9547.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9547.36596875,"end":9548.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9548.665343750003,"end":9561.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9560.680343750002,"end":9560.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9560.781593750002,"end":9560.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9560.96721875,"end":9561.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9561.96284375,"end":9562.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9562.97534375,"end":9575.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9575.800343750001,"end":9583.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9583.86659375,"end":9595.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9595.56096875,"end":9596.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9597.434093750002,"end":9598.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9599.72909375,"end":9602.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9603.137843750003,"end":9603.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9603.88034375,"end":9606.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9607.457843750002,"end":9610.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9610.91721875,"end":9612.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9612.23346875,"end":9619.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9620.434718750003,"end":9629.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9629.51346875,"end":9633.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9634.339718750001,"end":9635.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9636.246593750002,"end":9643.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9644.07659375,"end":9646.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9647.19846875,"end":9649.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9650.20221875,"end":9651.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9651.687218750001,"end":9653.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9654.15096875,"end":9657.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9658.437218750001,"end":9659.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9660.32721875,"end":9663.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9664.259093750003,"end":9676.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9676.45971875,"end":9681.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9681.235343750002,"end":9695.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9695.86596875,"end":9712.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9713.09534375,"end":9715.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9715.67721875,"end":9716.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9717.938468750002,"end":9720.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9721.49909375,"end":9723.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9722.27534375,"end":9722.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9723.65909375,"end":9733.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9727.48971875,"end":9727.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9732.72096875,"end":9733.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9733.51409375,"end":9735.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9734.98221875,"end":9735.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9735.539093750001,"end":9736.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9736.855343750001,"end":9766.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9765.82971875,"end":9801.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9802.11096875,"end":9803.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9804.11909375,"end":9804.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9804.794093750003,"end":9821.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9821.027843750002,"end":9872.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9871.72034375,"end":9879.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9875.230343750001,"end":9876.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9880.05659375,"end":9883.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9883.11096875,"end":9883.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9883.296593750001,"end":9883.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9883.313468750002,"end":9883.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9883.769093750001,"end":9900.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9900.762218750002,"end":9901.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9901.032218750002,"end":9901.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9902.230343750001,"end":9903.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9904.238468750002,"end":9917.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9918.59909375,"end":9944.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9941.86971875,"end":9942.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9942.03846875,"end":9942.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9942.17346875,"end":9942.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9944.586593750002,"end":9948.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9949.649093750002,"end":9950.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9951.04971875,"end":9952.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9952.78784375,"end":9954.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9954.509093750003,"end":9959.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9960.53346875,"end":9963.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9963.90846875,"end":9964.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9964.81971875,"end":9966.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9966.777218750001,"end":9989.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9991.212218750003,"end":9992.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9993.59159375,"end":9994.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9994.87409375,"end":10000.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10001.472218750001,"end":10002.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10003.21034375,"end":10004.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10005.42096875,"end":10006.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10006.973468750002,"end":10007.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10008.32346875,"end":10008.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10008.964718750001,"end":10013.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10013.52096875,"end":10016.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10017.030968750001,"end":10017.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10017.06471875,"end":10022.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10022.160968750002,"end":10029.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10030.109093750001,"end":10030.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10030.902218750001,"end":10031.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10032.42096875,"end":10035.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10035.981593750003,"end":10039.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10039.37346875,"end":10042.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10043.00159375,"end":10043.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10044.300968750002,"end":10044.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10045.16159375,"end":10045.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10046.29221875,"end":10047.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10047.86159375,"end":10054.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10054.83096875,"end":10056.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10057.109093750001,"end":10057.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10058.35784375,"end":10061.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10061.90159375,"end":10067.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10068.550343750001,"end":10069.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10069.44471875,"end":10071.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10071.520343750002,"end":10072.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10072.785968750002,"end":10074.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10075.03034375,"end":10075.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10076.97096875,"end":10087.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10087.58534375,"end":10109.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10109.961593750002,"end":10112.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10113.336593750002,"end":10114.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10115.918468750002,"end":10130.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10130.97096875,"end":10132.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10133.08034375,"end":10142.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10142.05784375,"end":10142.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10142.14221875,"end":10142.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10142.36159375,"end":10153.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10153.684718750003,"end":10154.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10154.089718750001,"end":10174.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10164.82221875,"end":10165.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10166.83034375,"end":10167.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10167.218468750001,"end":10167.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10171.04909375,"end":10172.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10173.42846875,"end":10174.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10174.407218750002,"end":10174.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10174.62659375,"end":10179.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10174.660343750002,"end":10175.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10175.21721875,"end":10175.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10179.840968750003,"end":10190.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10183.97534375,"end":10184.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10188.39659375,"end":10189.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10190.03346875,"end":10193.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10190.117843750002,"end":10190.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10191.434093750002,"end":10192.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10195.433468750001,"end":10197.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10200.192218750002,"end":10202.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10212.375968750002,"end":10214.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10214.519093750001,"end":10215.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10220.425343750001,"end":10263.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10264.08096875,"end":10296.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10296.88596875,"end":10322.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10322.012843750003,"end":10332.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10332.914093750001,"end":10358.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10358.918468750002,"end":10361.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10361.972843750002,"end":10380.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10375.81034375,"end":10376.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10377.953468750002,"end":10380.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10380.754718750002,"end":10393.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10394.085968750001,"end":10409.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10410.62346875,"end":10412.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10412.969093750002,"end":10418.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10416.394718750002,"end":10416.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10420.731593750003,"end":10421.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10421.997218750003,"end":10422.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10422.21659375,"end":10422.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10422.31784375,"end":10422.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10422.85784375,"end":10422.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10422.891593750002,"end":10423.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10423.02659375,"end":10431.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10431.93659375,"end":10433.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10432.72971875,"end":10439.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10440.239093750002,"end":10441.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10442.078468750002,"end":10442.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10442.820968750002,"end":10448.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10448.42346875,"end":10451.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10452.625343750002,"end":10462.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10462.952843750001,"end":10478.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10478.29221875,"end":10514.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10485.227843750003,"end":10485.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10485.430343750002,"end":10485.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10515.434093750002,"end":10525.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10525.22159375,"end":10548.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10548.914093750001,"end":10563.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10561.722218750001,"end":10561.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10563.696593750003,"end":10570.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10570.277843750002,"end":10590.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10589.61659375,"end":10589.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10590.375968750002,"end":10607.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10602.57659375,"end":10604.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10605.293468750002,"end":10605.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10606.20471875,"end":10615.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10615.97534375,"end":10664.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10644.645968750003,"end":10644.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10660.660343750002,"end":10660.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10664.38971875,"end":10664.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10664.69346875,"end":10673.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10674.177218750003,"end":10674.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10674.24471875,"end":10689.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10674.29534375,"end":10674.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10681.66971875,"end":10682.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10682.04096875,"end":10682.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10688.504093750002,"end":10690.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10690.343468750001,"end":10692.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.520343750002,"end":10692.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10692.65534375,"end":10692.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10692.739718750003,"end":10692.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10692.942218750002,"end":10710.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10708.14659375,"end":10709.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10710.087218750003,"end":10710.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10710.35721875,"end":10711.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10711.825343750003,"end":10713.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10715.21721875,"end":10718.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10718.727218750002,"end":10735.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10734.555968750003,"end":10735.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10736.918468750002,"end":10738.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10741.660343750002,"end":10744.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10756.56096875,"end":10758.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10758.585968750001,"end":10759.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10764.458468750003,"end":10779.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10779.71346875,"end":10785.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10785.957218750002,"end":10786.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10786.125968750002,"end":10793.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10794.05721875,"end":10799.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10799.524718750003,"end":10801.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10801.634093750003,"end":10803.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10803.81096875,"end":10805.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10805.54909375,"end":10805.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10807.13534375,"end":10809.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10810.24034375,"end":10826.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10826.659718750001,"end":10827.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10828.11096875,"end":10831.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10831.03034375,"end":10831.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10831.789718750002,"end":10832.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10832.75159375,"end":10834.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10834.82721875,"end":10868.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10868.25659375,"end":10869.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10869.640343750001,"end":10869.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10869.72471875,"end":10869.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10869.74159375,"end":10875.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10875.63096875,"end":10877.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10878.11159375,"end":10889.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10890.599093750003,"end":10892.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10892.82659375,"end":10893.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10894.21034375,"end":10901.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10902.597218750001,"end":10909.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10910.089718750001,"end":10911.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10911.777218750001,"end":10926.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10918.29096875,"end":10918.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10927.09971875,"end":10946.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10946.387843750003,"end":10948.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10947.40034375,"end":10947.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10948.649093750002,"end":10950.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10950.67409375,"end":10954.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10954.555343750002,"end":10961.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10962.21659375,"end":10965.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10965.878468750001,"end":10967.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10967.97096875,"end":10969.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10969.371593750002,"end":10981.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10981.437218750001,"end":10991.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10992.13596875,"end":10992.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10993.03034375,"end":10994.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10994.009093750003,"end":10994.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10994.76846875,"end":11002.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11002.750343750002,"end":11008.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11009.399093750002,"end":11014.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11015.33909375,"end":11015.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11015.355968750002,"end":11015.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11015.86221875,"end":11016.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11016.53721875,"end":11017.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11017.414718750002,"end":11022.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11022.71346875,"end":11024.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11024.65409375,"end":11025.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11025.93659375,"end":11042.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11042.355968750002,"end":11044.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11045.528468750003,"end":11053.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11053.274093750002,"end":11057.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11057.847218750001,"end":11074.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11074.55346875,"end":11076.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11076.308468750001,"end":11076.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11076.96659375,"end":11079.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11079.83534375,"end":11091.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11091.344093750002,"end":11095.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11095.562843750002,"end":11096.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11097.199718750002,"end":11098.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11098.90409375,"end":11106.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11106.649718750003,"end":11107.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11108.18534375,"end":11109.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11109.99096875,"end":11114.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11115.30659375,"end":11146.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11146.49159375,"end":11186.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11187.44721875,"end":11187.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11187.46409375,"end":11188.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11188.493468750003,"end":11189.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11188.51034375,"end":11188.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11189.269718750002,"end":11197.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11198.280968750001,"end":11202.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11202.617843750002,"end":11204.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11205.43596875,"end":11206.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11206.70159375,"end":11207.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11207.96721875,"end":11210.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11211.17346875,"end":11215.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11215.425968750002,"end":11218.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11218.71659375,"end":11220.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11221.58534375,"end":11227.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11227.59284375,"end":11231.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11229.68534375,"end":11229.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11230.410968750002,"end":11261.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11231.676593750002,"end":11232.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11239.65846875,"end":11239.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11239.962218750003,"end":11240.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11241.81846875,"end":11242.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11261.96721875,"end":11268.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11268.98721875,"end":11270.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11270.65784375,"end":11278.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11278.53846875,"end":11291.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11284.815968750001,"end":11285.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11291.49846875,"end":11295.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11297.45534375,"end":11299.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11302.29846875,"end":11304.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11315.477843750003,"end":11322.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11322.98721875,"end":11323.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11324.30346875,"end":11324.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11325.552218750003,"end":11325.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11325.906593750002,"end":11363.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11364.077843750001,"end":11381.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11382.30284375,"end":11382.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11383.21409375,"end":11384.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11384.715968750003,"end":11386.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11386.977218750002,"end":11389.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11389.94721875,"end":11403.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11402.367218750001,"end":11405.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11404.34159375,"end":11405.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11405.421593750001,"end":11409.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11409.488468750002,"end":11430.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11430.953468750002,"end":11460.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11460.83909375,"end":11481.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11481.81471875,"end":11481.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11481.88221875,"end":11491.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11491.399718750003,"end":11492.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11492.445968750002,"end":11494.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11494.386593750001,"end":11494.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11494.454093750002,"end":11497.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11494.57221875,"end":11494.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11494.859093750001,"end":11495.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11497.609718750002,"end":11499.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11499.989093750002,"end":11500.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11500.96784375,"end":11503.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11504.32596875,"end":11523.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11509.55721875,"end":11509.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11524.356593750003,"end":11568.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11564.114093750002,"end":11564.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11565.177218750003,"end":11565.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11568.82221875,"end":11570.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11568.88971875,"end":11575.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11576.43284375,"end":11578.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11579.47034375,"end":11579.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11580.145343750002,"end":11585.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11585.359718750002,"end":11590.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11591.72159375,"end":11593.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11593.746593750002,"end":11608.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11609.237843750001,"end":11617.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11616.949718750002,"end":11617.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11618.40096875,"end":11619.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11619.734093750001,"end":11628.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11625.20159375,"end":11625.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11628.57659375,"end":11639.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11639.950343750003,"end":11640.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11640.034718750001,"end":11642.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11642.954093750002,"end":11644.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11645.586593750002,"end":11645.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11646.160343750002,"end":11655.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11653.349093750003,"end":11653.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11655.036593750003,"end":11655.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11655.964718750001,"end":11655.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11655.981593750003,"end":11656.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11656.15034375,"end":11657.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11656.234718750002,"end":11658.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11658.95159375,"end":11663.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11663.11971875,"end":11667.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11667.034718750001,"end":11676.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11676.974093750003,"end":11693.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11683.62284375,"end":11683.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11691.992843750002,"end":11692.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11692.00971875,"end":11701.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11694.13596875,"end":11695.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11702.117843750002,"end":11702.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11702.792843750001,"end":11713.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11713.15409375,"end":11716.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11717.49096875,"end":11717.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11717.81159375,"end":11718.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11718.773468750001,"end":11723.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11723.59971875,"end":11729.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11727.649718750003,"end":11747.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11743.37721875,"end":11743.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11744.035343750002,"end":11745.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11747.27534375,"end":11753.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11753.468468750001,"end":11756.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11756.910968750002,"end":11757.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11757.02909375,"end":11757.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11757.974093750003,"end":11758.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11758.024718750003,"end":11758.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11758.902218750001,"end":11767.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11758.919093750003,"end":11759.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11760.809093750002,"end":11761.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11768.01471875,"end":11774.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11775.524093750002,"end":11783.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11783.792843750001,"end":11786.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11786.965343750002,"end":11788.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11790.188468750002,"end":11811.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11811.585968750001,"end":11814.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11814.03284375,"end":11826.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11826.26721875,"end":11831.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11832.375968750002,"end":11833.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11832.56159375,"end":11837.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11838.19784375,"end":11838.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11839.649093750002,"end":11841.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11843.867843750002,"end":11846.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11861.063468750002,"end":11862.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11863.122218750003,"end":11864.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11865.02909375,"end":11866.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11872.015343750001,"end":11872.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11873.43284375,"end":11876.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11876.622218750003,"end":11880.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11881.161593750003,"end":11884.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11885.802218750003,"end":11886.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11887.30409375,"end":11892.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11893.581593750001,"end":11894.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11894.712218750003,"end":11896.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11896.63596875,"end":11897.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11898.340343750002,"end":11899.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11900.68596875,"end":11903.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11904.044093750003,"end":11905.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11906.11971875,"end":11907.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11907.13221875,"end":11910.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11907.80721875,"end":11908.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11910.92909375,"end":11911.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11911.90784375,"end":11912.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11913.96659375,"end":11914.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11914.55721875,"end":11915.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11915.23221875,"end":11915.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11915.29971875,"end":11916.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11917.206593750001,"end":11918.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11918.60721875,"end":11919.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11919.87284375,"end":11920.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11920.598468750002,"end":11927.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11927.95596875,"end":11929.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11930.200343750003,"end":11941.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11941.08471875,"end":11943.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11943.09284375,"end":11951.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11949.640343750001,"end":11950.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11952.30659375,"end":11955.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11956.52534375,"end":11957.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11958.06096875,"end":11959.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11959.47846875,"end":11959.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11960.42346875,"end":11963.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11964.254093750002,"end":11968.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11968.70909375,"end":11969.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11970.312218750001,"end":11972.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11972.97846875,"end":11974.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11974.699718750002,"end":11978.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11978.73284375,"end":11981.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11982.833468750003,"end":11983.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11983.508468750002,"end":12006.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12006.441593750002,"end":12008.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12009.344093750002,"end":12010.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12010.930343750002,"end":12011.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12011.48721875,"end":12011.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12011.571593750003,"end":12015.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12016.296593750001,"end":12025.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12025.949093750001,"end":12028.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12027.957218750002,"end":12036.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12031.14659375,"end":12031.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12035.820968750002,"end":12039.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12040.360343750002,"end":12045.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12044.882843750001,"end":12047.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12047.937218750001,"end":12048.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12048.325343750003,"end":12053.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12048.780968750001,"end":12049.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12053.708468750003,"end":12055.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12053.742218750001,"end":12053.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12056.40846875,"end":12060.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12060.79596875,"end":12063.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12063.52971875,"end":12064.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12065.622218750003,"end":12066.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12067.410968750002,"end":12068.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12070.12784375,"end":12070.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12070.195343750001,"end":12070.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12070.27971875,"end":12070.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12070.38096875,"end":12070.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12070.49909375,"end":12070.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12071.22471875,"end":12072.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12072.304718750001,"end":12076.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12077.50221875,"end":12079.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12081.29909375,"end":12087.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12088.09971875,"end":12092.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12092.95971875,"end":12095.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12092.993468750003,"end":12093.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12096.419093750003,"end":12099.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12099.000968750002,"end":12099.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12099.034718750001,"end":12099.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12099.06846875,"end":12099.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12099.355343750001,"end":12101.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12102.629093750002,"end":12105.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12105.734093750001,"end":12105.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12105.91971875,"end":12107.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12107.742218750001,"end":12109.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12109.41284375,"end":12109.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12109.61534375,"end":12109.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12109.902218750001,"end":12110.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12110.61096875,"end":12113.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12114.10409375,"end":12141.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12141.070343750001,"end":12143.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12143.652218750001,"end":12145.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12146.41971875,"end":12146.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12146.453468750002,"end":12146.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12146.84159375,"end":12146.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12146.85846875,"end":12146.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12146.976593750001,"end":12147.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12147.90471875,"end":12148.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12148.69784375,"end":12148.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12149.355968750002,"end":12151.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12152.309093750002,"end":12154.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12155.414093750001,"end":12160.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12161.472218750001,"end":12161.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12161.894093750001,"end":12161.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12161.910968750002,"end":12163.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12161.961593750002,"end":12162.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12162.315968750001,"end":12162.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12162.41721875,"end":12162.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12163.109093750001,"end":12163.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12163.176593750002,"end":12164.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12165.04971875,"end":12165.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12165.387218750002,"end":12166.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12167.83409375,"end":12173.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12173.89221875,"end":12174.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12175.79909375,"end":12178.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12179.309093750002,"end":12180.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12180.01784375,"end":12181.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12182.44784375,"end":12195.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12195.67784375,"end":12199.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12199.49159375,"end":12199.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12199.710968750001,"end":12200.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12200.706593750001,"end":12200.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12200.824718750002,"end":12201.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12201.972218750001,"end":12202.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12203.676593750002,"end":12204.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12206.258468750002,"end":12207.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12208.77284375,"end":12212.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12212.805968750003,"end":12217.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12218.10471875,"end":12234.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12232.566593750002,"end":12233.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12235.50284375,"end":12238.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12235.75596875,"end":12236.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12239.012843750003,"end":12241.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12241.274093750002,"end":12243.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12244.547843750002,"end":12253.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12250.21784375,"end":12251.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12254.21721875,"end":12256.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12256.782218750002,"end":12262.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12261.777218750001,"end":12264.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12265.18596875,"end":12267.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12268.122218750003,"end":12271.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12271.817843750003,"end":12273.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12274.24784375,"end":12275.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12275.547218750002,"end":12276.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12276.99846875,"end":12277.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12277.015343750001,"end":12294.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12295.78034375,"end":12297.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12298.76721875,"end":12300.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12300.72471875,"end":12301.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12301.905968750001,"end":12323.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12324.34971875,"end":12326.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12326.57721875,"end":12330.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12330.84659375,"end":12333.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12333.968468750001,"end":12337.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12338.27159375,"end":12348.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12348.91971875,"end":12351.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12352.46346875,"end":12358.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12358.437218750001,"end":12358.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12358.454093750002,"end":12361.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12361.69409375,"end":12366.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12366.149093750002,"end":12368.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12372.645968750003,"end":12373.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12374.62034375,"end":12375.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12382.534718750001,"end":12383.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12384.340343750002,"end":12385.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12385.909718750001,"end":12386.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12390.972218750001,"end":12391.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12391.47846875,"end":12391.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12391.91721875,"end":12392.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12393.030968750001,"end":12394.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12395.74784375,"end":12398.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12399.02159375,"end":12400.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12400.692218750002,"end":12402.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12402.81846875,"end":12404.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12404.590343750002,"end":12406.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12406.68284375,"end":12406.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12406.73346875,"end":12407.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12408.45471875,"end":12410.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12411.120968750001,"end":12412.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12413.652218750001,"end":12415.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12414.175343750001,"end":12415.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12415.862843750001,"end":12419.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12418.512218750002,"end":12419.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12420.149093750002,"end":12420.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12421.195343750001,"end":12422.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12421.769093750001,"end":12421.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12422.039093750001,"end":12423.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12422.07284375,"end":12422.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12424.047218750002,"end":12424.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12425.17784375,"end":12426.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12427.40534375,"end":12430.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12430.898468750001,"end":12431.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12431.590343750002,"end":12434.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12435.066593750002,"end":12437.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12437.73284375,"end":12438.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12439.58909375,"end":12441.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12441.68159375,"end":12443.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12443.622218750003,"end":12445.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12446.06909375,"end":12447.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12448.43159375,"end":12449.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12449.54534375,"end":12449.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12450.49034375,"end":12452.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12452.29596875,"end":12452.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12453.54471875,"end":12454.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12454.641593750002,"end":12455.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12456.210968750001,"end":12457.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12458.067218750002,"end":12458.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12458.87721875,"end":12460.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12461.324093750001,"end":12462.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12462.84284375,"end":12464.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12464.547218750002,"end":12467.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12467.38221875,"end":12469.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12469.96409375,"end":12469.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12469.99784375,"end":12470.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12470.01471875,"end":12470.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12470.26784375,"end":12473.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12474.06471875,"end":12476.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12478.01346875,"end":12478.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12479.684093750002,"end":12480.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12480.59534375,"end":12483.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12483.852218750002,"end":12484.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12485.20221875,"end":12486.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12486.484718750002,"end":12488.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12488.222843750002,"end":12492.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12492.711593750002,"end":12493.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12494.871593750002,"end":12495.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12496.20471875,"end":12499.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12500.035343750002,"end":12501.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12502.245968750001,"end":12506.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12507.12284375,"end":12510.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12510.379718750002,"end":12510.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12510.49784375,"end":12511.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12511.29096875,"end":12514.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12513.265343750001,"end":12515.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12516.117218750001,"end":12525.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12524.58846875,"end":12525.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12525.027218750001,"end":12525.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12525.972218750001,"end":12527.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12527.64284375,"end":12527.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12528.081593750001,"end":12529.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12529.144718750002,"end":12533.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12534.29159375,"end":12535.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12536.265968750002,"end":12538.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12538.56096875,"end":12540.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12540.99096875,"end":12543.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12544.973468750002,"end":12554.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12553.74846875,"end":12554.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12554.676593750002,"end":12554.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12554.71034375,"end":12554.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12554.777843750002,"end":12563.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12563.586593750002,"end":12571.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12570.45471875,"end":12578.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12578.84159375,"end":12579.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12580.259093750003,"end":12581.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12581.17034375,"end":12583.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12584.511593750001,"end":12585.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12586.06409375,"end":12587.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12587.07659375,"end":12592.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12592.67909375,"end":12593.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12594.434093750002,"end":12595.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12595.058468750001,"end":12599.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12600.289718750002,"end":12600.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12601.25159375,"end":12609.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12609.570968750002,"end":12614.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12614.49846875,"end":12614.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12614.61659375,"end":12615.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12614.785343750002,"end":12621.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12621.41721875,"end":12621.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12621.535343750002,"end":12621.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12621.704093750002,"end":12634.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12621.72096875,"end":12621.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12634.17471875,"end":12637.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12634.259093750003,"end":12634.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12637.90409375,"end":12639.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12640.688468750002,"end":12642.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12643.01721875,"end":12643.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12643.101593750001,"end":12644.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12645.29534375,"end":12647.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12647.50596875,"end":12650.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12649.699718750002,"end":12650.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12650.594093750002,"end":12653.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12651.589718750001,"end":12652.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12653.445968750002,"end":12653.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12653.766593750002,"end":12657.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12657.32721875,"end":12657.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12657.664718750002,"end":12659.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12660.28034375,"end":12666.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12663.030968750001,"end":12663.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12663.18284375,"end":12663.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12665.207843750002,"end":12665.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12665.460968750001,"end":12665.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12665.528468750003,"end":12665.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12665.612843750001,"end":12665.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12665.79846875,"end":12666.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12666.000968750002,"end":12666.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12666.034718750001,"end":12666.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12666.102218750002,"end":12666.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12666.13596875,"end":12667.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12667.90784375,"end":12673.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12673.274093750002,"end":12673.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12673.35846875,"end":12674.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12674.809718750003,"end":12677.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12678.167843750001,"end":12680.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12680.395343750002,"end":12680.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12681.390968750002,"end":12681.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12682.386593750001,"end":12685.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12685.20471875,"end":12686.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12687.70221875,"end":12688.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12689.33909375,"end":12690.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12690.53721875,"end":12691.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12692.005343750003,"end":12693.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12693.96284375,"end":12694.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12694.08096875,"end":12694.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12694.199093750001,"end":12694.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12694.671593750001,"end":12704.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12704.03721875,"end":12704.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12704.070968750002,"end":12704.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12705.285968750002,"end":12710.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12710.972843750002,"end":12712.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12713.21721875,"end":12716.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12713.250968750002,"end":12713.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12713.301593750002,"end":12714.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12716.96346875,"end":12726.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12725.907218750002,"end":12732.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12726.98721875,"end":12727.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12727.98284375,"end":12728.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12733.298468750003,"end":12735.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12736.09971875,"end":12737.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12738.05721875,"end":12741.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12742.00596875,"end":12747.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12745.49909375,"end":12750.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12749.329718750003,"end":12751.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12750.747218750003,"end":12772.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12757.345343750003,"end":12759.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12762.289718750002,"end":12762.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12770.01846875,"end":12770.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12771.250343750002,"end":12771.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12772.75221875,"end":12784.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12783.83909375,"end":12784.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12784.024718750003,"end":12784.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12784.058468750001,"end":12784.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12785.374718750001,"end":12786.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12786.62346875,"end":12786.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12786.640343750001,"end":12789.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12787.83846875,"end":12788.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12789.036593750003,"end":12790.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12789.863468750002,"end":12791.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12791.21346875,"end":12791.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12791.78721875,"end":12793.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12791.820968750002,"end":12795.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12794.149718750003,"end":12802.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12801.203468750002,"end":12802.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12802.01346875,"end":12802.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12802.03034375,"end":12802.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12802.519718750002,"end":12806.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12803.009093750003,"end":12803.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12807.649718750003,"end":12807.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12809.13471875,"end":12810.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12811.88534375,"end":12813.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12827.258468750002,"end":12830.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12830.76846875,"end":12831.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12831.56159375,"end":12832.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12837.501593750003,"end":12838.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12840.40409375,"end":12843.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12844.234718750002,"end":12848.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12848.80784375,"end":12851.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12851.37284375,"end":12851.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12851.474093750003,"end":12852.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12851.49096875,"end":12851.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12852.60471875,"end":12853.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12853.49909375,"end":12853.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12854.17409375,"end":12854.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12855.405968750001,"end":12858.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12860.046593750001,"end":12861.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12862.18971875,"end":12866.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12867.04971875,"end":12868.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12869.277218750001,"end":12870.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12870.880343750003,"end":12874.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12875.26784375,"end":12876.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12877.039718750002,"end":12877.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12878.32221875,"end":12880.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12882.473468750002,"end":12887.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12887.67096875,"end":12891.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12892.46346875,"end":12894.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12895.68659375,"end":12895.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12896.648468750001,"end":12902.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12902.824718750002,"end":12903.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12904.10721875,"end":12904.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12905.153468750003,"end":12906.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12907.262843750003,"end":12913.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12914.097218750001,"end":12916.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12916.45971875,"end":12918.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12920.070968750002,"end":12922.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12923.277218750001,"end":12925.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12925.47096875,"end":12926.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12926.90534375,"end":12927.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12927.917843750001,"end":12928.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12928.356593750003,"end":12928.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12928.677218750003,"end":12928.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12928.879718750002,"end":12930.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12929.90909375,"end":12930.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12931.731593750003,"end":12932.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12932.777843750002,"end":12937.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12938.751593750003,"end":12941.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12942.210968750001,"end":12942.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12942.24471875,"end":12943.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12943.965968750003,"end":12945.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12945.99096875,"end":12950.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12949.062218750001,"end":12949.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12951.880343750003,"end":12952.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12952.724093750003,"end":12957.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12957.85409375,"end":12960.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12961.094093750002,"end":12962.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12962.54534375,"end":12967.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12968.519093750001,"end":12970.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12970.93221875,"end":12975.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12973.41284375,"end":12977.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12975.032843750003,"end":12975.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12975.555968750003,"end":12975.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12977.614718750003,"end":12999.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13000.395968750003,"end":13000.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13000.41284375,"end":13004.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13004.547218750002,"end":13005.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13005.188468750002,"end":13006.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13008.192218750002,"end":13009.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13010.234093750001,"end":13012.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13012.17471875,"end":13014.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13013.254718750002,"end":13024.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13024.965968750003,"end":13027.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13030.180343750002,"end":13033.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13033.52159375,"end":13045.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13034.517218750003,"end":13036.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13041.891593750002,"end":13045.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13045.789718750002,"end":13045.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13045.941593750002,"end":13045.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13045.958468750003,"end":13045.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13045.97534375,"end":13045.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13046.07659375,"end":13049.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13050.177218750003,"end":13051.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13053.09659375,"end":13054.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13055.03721875,"end":13056.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13057.16346875,"end":13058.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13058.85096875,"end":13060.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13060.977218750002,"end":13062.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13063.42409375,"end":13066.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13067.085968750001,"end":13068.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13068.722843750002,"end":13069.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13071.692843750003,"end":13072.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13073.751593750003,"end":13075.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13075.860968750003,"end":13077.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13078.695968750002,"end":13079.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13079.539718750002,"end":13080.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13082.05409375,"end":13083.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13084.51784375,"end":13086.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13086.407843750003,"end":13087.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13088.601593750001,"end":13090.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13091.06534375,"end":13093.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13094.79471875,"end":13096.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13097.96721875,"end":13099.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13099.992218750001,"end":13101.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13106.269718750002,"end":13107.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13107.906593750002,"end":13110.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13112.867843750002,"end":13114.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13115.753468750001,"end":13116.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13117.52534375,"end":13119.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13120.05659375,"end":13122.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13123.110968750003,"end":13123.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13124.309093750002,"end":13125.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13125.97971875,"end":13127.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13128.257843750001,"end":13129.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13129.911593750003,"end":13130.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13131.09284375,"end":13131.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13131.76784375,"end":13137.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13138.56846875,"end":13139.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13140.52596875,"end":13141.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13142.230343750001,"end":13144.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13144.84596875,"end":13146.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13147.27596875,"end":13148.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13149.70596875,"end":13154.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13154.66721875,"end":13157.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13158.14346875,"end":13159.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13160.117843750002,"end":13164.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13164.57284375,"end":13166.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13166.09159375,"end":13166.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13167.05346875,"end":13168.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13168.69034375,"end":13170.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13171.559093750002,"end":13177.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13177.87034375,"end":13181.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13182.39284375,"end":13183.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13184.097218750001,"end":13186.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13187.320343750001,"end":13188.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13189.345343750003,"end":13192.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13193.09159375,"end":13194.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13195.605968750002,"end":13197.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13197.968468750001,"end":13200.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13200.85409375,"end":13201.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13202.507843750001,"end":13205.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13205.376593750003,"end":13206.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13207.38471875,"end":13208.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13208.937218750001,"end":13210.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13210.40534375,"end":13210.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13211.56971875,"end":13215.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13216.68284375,"end":13217.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13218.82596875,"end":13220.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13221.171593750001,"end":13222.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13224.25971875,"end":13227.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13227.870968750001,"end":13229.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13230.250343750002,"end":13232.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13232.34284375,"end":13236.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13238.907218750002,"end":13243.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13244.62784375,"end":13249.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13249.79159375,"end":13253.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13254.38159375,"end":13256.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13256.32221875,"end":13258.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13262.71784375,"end":13265.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13265.940968750001,"end":13268.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13268.590343750002,"end":13270.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13271.020343750002,"end":13273.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13273.41659375,"end":13277.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13277.63534375,"end":13280.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13281.027218750001,"end":13282.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13284.942218750002,"end":13290.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13291.523468750001,"end":13292.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13292.637218750002,"end":13293.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13294.324718750002,"end":13295.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13296.09659375,"end":13297.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13297.78409375,"end":13301.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13302.239093750002,"end":13306.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13306.32284375,"end":13310.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13311.030968750001,"end":13311.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13311.824093750001,"end":13314.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13314.60846875,"end":13315.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13317.257843750001,"end":13317.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13318.33784375,"end":13319.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13319.62034375,"end":13321.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13321.08846875,"end":13321.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13323.72096875,"end":13325.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13328.614718750003,"end":13337.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13348.898468750001,"end":13350.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13350.906593750002,"end":13351.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13356.99846875,"end":13358.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13357.251593750003,"end":13361.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13362.499718750001,"end":13363.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13364.27159375,"end":13370.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13371.426593750002,"end":13373.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13373.940968750001,"end":13374.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13374.227843750003,"end":13384.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13385.11221875,"end":13388.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13388.672843750002,"end":13392.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13392.70596875,"end":13396.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13396.570343750001,"end":13397.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13397.802218750003,"end":13402.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13403.235968750003,"end":13404.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13405.429718750001,"end":13417.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13418.27159375,"end":13419.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13419.85784375,"end":13421.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13421.81534375,"end":13422.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13423.688468750002,"end":13424.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13425.29159375,"end":13426.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13426.81034375,"end":13428.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13429.442843750003,"end":13432.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13433.695343750001,"end":13435.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13436.46284375,"end":13438.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13438.251593750003,"end":13439.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13440.22596875,"end":13442.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13443.53346875,"end":13444.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13445.54159375,"end":13456.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13456.695968750002,"end":13457.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13458.484718750002,"end":13465.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13465.487843750001,"end":13466.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13466.85471875,"end":13471.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13471.731593750003,"end":13475.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13475.562218750001,"end":13477.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13477.70534375,"end":13480.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13480.70909375,"end":13485.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13486.31159375,"end":13487.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13487.45909375,"end":13489.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13489.93971875,"end":13491.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13491.62721875,"end":13493.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13493.63534375,"end":13498.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13499.153468750003,"end":13506.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13507.067843750003,"end":13535.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13535.55284375,"end":13547.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13548.05721875,"end":13577.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13577.80784375,"end":13584.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13585.469093750002,"end":13586.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13586.81909375,"end":13604.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13604.95971875,"end":13634.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13635.53721875,"end":13641.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13641.848468750002,"end":13660.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13660.95096875,"end":13679.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13675.952843750001,"end":13676.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13679.90159375,"end":13722.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13718.089718750001,"end":13718.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13718.106593750003,"end":13718.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13722.08909375,"end":13722.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13722.325343750003,"end":13746.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13745.190968750001,"end":13745.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13745.24159375,"end":13745.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13747.82346875,"end":13749.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13755.687218750001,"end":13765.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13774.249718750001,"end":13776.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13776.578468750002,"end":13777.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13783.750343750002,"end":13785.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13785.336593750002,"end":13788.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13788.340343750002,"end":13798.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13797.149093750002,"end":13797.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13798.97159375,"end":13799.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13800.13596875,"end":13825.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13826.376593750003,"end":13827.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13827.405968750001,"end":13866.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13867.433468750001,"end":13893.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13893.35346875,"end":13905.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13905.90846875,"end":13919.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13919.89784375,"end":13932.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13933.12784375,"end":13943.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13945.446593750003,"end":13975.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13975.112843750001,"end":13985.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13986.030968750001,"end":13992.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13993.050968750002,"end":14004.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14005.09971875,"end":14010.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14010.921593750001,"end":14017.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14018.312843750002,"end":14023.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14024.387843750003,"end":14025.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14025.83909375,"end":14045.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14045.987843750001,"end":14057.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14059.724093750003,"end":14061.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14064.195968750002,"end":14066.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14077.442843750003,"end":14080.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14080.581593750001,"end":14081.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14086.335968750001,"end":14087.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14087.652218750001,"end":14093.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14093.929718750001,"end":14125.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14125.620968750001,"end":14126.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14127.08909375,"end":14140.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14140.656593750002,"end":14157.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14143.59284375,"end":14144.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14145.95534375,"end":14147.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14156.55284375,"end":14159.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14158.949093750001,"end":14161.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14162.003468750001,"end":14182.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14183.23221875,"end":14185.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14185.746593750002,"end":14191.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14192.125343750002,"end":14202.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14201.11971875,"end":14233.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14204.64659375,"end":14205.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14207.92034375,"end":14208.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14208.274718750003,"end":14208.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14234.414093750001,"end":14240.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14239.814093750003,"end":14250.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14240.67471875,"end":14241.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14241.383468750002,"end":14243.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14248.42034375,"end":14255.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14255.28846875,"end":14265.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14265.76784375,"end":14308.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14308.86659375,"end":14317.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14317.08471875,"end":14317.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14317.320968750002,"end":14323.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14317.742843750002,"end":14318.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14320.797218750002,"end":14321.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14322.484718750002,"end":14322.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14323.075343750003,"end":14324.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14324.273468750001,"end":14343.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14343.797843750002,"end":14347.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14347.03784375,"end":14347.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14348.03346875,"end":14357.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14357.38221875,"end":14384.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14357.652218750001,"end":14358.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14385.74909375,"end":14385.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14385.917843750001,"end":14385.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14385.934718750003,"end":14386.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14386.019093750001,"end":14395.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14387.892218750003,"end":14389.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14391.317843750003,"end":14392.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14394.55784375,"end":14400.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14400.210968750001,"end":14401.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14402.117843750002,"end":14403.923468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14405.391593750002,"end":14406.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14406.134093750003,"end":14465.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14462.36159375,"end":14462.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14466.00659375,"end":14469.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14468.48721875,"end":14468.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14469.90471875,"end":14469.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14469.921593750001,"end":14470.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14470.05659375,"end":14470.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14470.191593750002,"end":14474.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14472.63846875,"end":14474.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14474.899718750003,"end":14475.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14474.91659375,"end":14477.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14477.22846875,"end":14481.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":14482.004093750002,"end":14483.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14485.56471875,"end":14487.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14488.88909375,"end":14491.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14496.297218750002,"end":14497.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14501.54534375,"end":14503.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14503.80659375,"end":14504.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14510.708468750003,"end":14511.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14511.88971875,"end":14543.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14543.969093750002,"end":14544.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14544.171593750001,"end":14546.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14546.331593750001,"end":14548.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14548.677218750003,"end":14549.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14549.723468750002,"end":14550.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14550.972218750001,"end":14557.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14557.01346875,"end":14565.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14566.581593750001,"end":14568.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14569.24784375,"end":14574.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14572.352843750003,"end":14574.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14574.344093750002,"end":14588.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14585.39721875,"end":14585.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14588.316593750002,"end":14588.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14588.56971875,"end":14600.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14588.62034375,"end":14588.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14600.871593750002,"end":14602.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14602.829093750002,"end":14605.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14606.001593750003,"end":14606.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14606.64284375,"end":14607.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14607.098468750002,"end":14610.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14611.148468750001,"end":14616.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14616.76784375,"end":14632.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14618.961593750002,"end":14619.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14632.02284375,"end":14641.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14638.75596875,"end":14645.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14641.23659375,"end":14642.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14643.93659375,"end":14646.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14646.062843750002,"end":14650.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14649.015968750002,"end":14656.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14653.454093750002,"end":14653.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14656.727843750003,"end":14656.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14656.980968750002,"end":14666.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14666.144093750001,"end":14670.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14669.940968750001,"end":14669.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14670.008468750002,"end":14670.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14670.379718750002,"end":14679.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14678.867843750002,"end":14693.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14681.517218750003,"end":14681.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14688.773468750001,"end":14690.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14690.106593750003,"end":14692.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14692.958468750003,"end":14693.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14693.211593750002,"end":14697.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14695.945343750001,"end":14696.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14697.362843750001,"end":14698.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14697.649718750003,"end":14700.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14700.282218750002,"end":14722.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14701.227218750002,"end":14701.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14702.864093750002,"end":14703.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14712.769718750002,"end":14713.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14719.80659375,"end":14720.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14723.114093750002,"end":14731.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14731.770968750003,"end":14732.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14732.09159375,"end":14733.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14733.289718750002,"end":14757.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14733.67784375,"end":14734.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14757.62346875,"end":14762.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14762.601593750001,"end":14763.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14763.344093750002,"end":14765.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14765.504093750002,"end":14766.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14767.815968750001,"end":14769.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14769.891593750002,"end":14772.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14773.097843750002,"end":14773.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14773.587218750003,"end":14777.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14778.51471875,"end":14778.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14778.649718750003,"end":14786.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14786.78346875,"end":14801.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14801.734718750002,"end":14807.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14807.792843750001,"end":14810.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14809.767218750003,"end":14819.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14817.867218750001,"end":14818.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14819.453468750002,"end":14819.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14819.976593750001,"end":14824.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14824.532843750003,"end":14830.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14830.65846875,"end":14830.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14830.72596875,"end":14830.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14830.82721875,"end":14830.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14830.945343750001,"end":14830.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14830.962218750003,"end":14846.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14834.30346875,"end":14834.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14834.35409375,"end":14834.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14834.82659375,"end":14834.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14834.843468750001,"end":14834.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14845.879718750002,"end":14846.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14846.571593750003,"end":14847.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14847.617843750002,"end":14849.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14850.351593750001,"end":14852.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14853.422843750002,"end":14854.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14854.620968750001,"end":14856.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14856.848468750002,"end":14859.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14859.902843750002,"end":14859.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14859.91971875,"end":14862.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14862.214718750001,"end":14867.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14867.46284375,"end":14871.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14869.825343750003,"end":14870.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14870.989718750003,"end":14884.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14872.99784375,"end":14873.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":14884.30409375,"end":14885.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14885.164718750002,"end":14888.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14889.265343750001,"end":14890.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14890.919093750003,"end":14892.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14892.505343750003,"end":14894.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14894.88471875,"end":14895.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14895.981593750003,"end":14896.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14896.977218750002,"end":14903.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14904.874718750001,"end":14906.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14906.899718750003,"end":14914.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14914.493468750003,"end":14915.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14914.56096875,"end":14917.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14916.704093750002,"end":14938.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14921.88471875,"end":14922.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14936.59971875,"end":14937.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14938.962218750003,"end":14940.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14941.29096875,"end":14945.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14945.661593750003,"end":14946.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14946.539093750001,"end":14950.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14951.095343750003,"end":14953.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14954.082218750002,"end":14956.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14957.558468750001,"end":14959.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14959.988468750002,"end":14961.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14962.300343750001,"end":14963.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14963.76846875,"end":14963.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14963.954093750002,"end":14964.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14966.02971875,"end":14966.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14967.93659375,"end":14980.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14980.54221875,"end":14994.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":14994.04221875,"end":15000.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15001.500968750002,"end":15003.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15003.171593750001,"end":15004.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15004.065968750001,"end":15008.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15008.26784375,"end":15012.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15013.00971875,"end":15013.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15013.094093750002,"end":15015.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15015.92909375,"end":15017.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15017.937218750001,"end":15025.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15023.809718750003,"end":15028.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15028.551593750002,"end":15032.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15030.27284375,"end":15031.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15031.656593750002,"end":15031.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15032.58471875,"end":15033.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15032.871593750002,"end":15033.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15034.204718750003,"end":15036.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15036.246593750002,"end":15039.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15038.69346875,"end":15038.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15039.33471875,"end":15042.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15043.28346875,"end":15044.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15045.426593750002,"end":15046.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15046.202843750001,"end":15053.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15054.52221875,"end":15057.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15059.348468750002,"end":15083.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15083.95221875,"end":15095.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15088.035968750002,"end":15088.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15095.190968750001,"end":15096.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15096.28784375,"end":15100.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15097.03034375,"end":15097.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15100.270343750002,"end":15104.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15105.214718750001,"end":15107.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15107.661593750003,"end":15108.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15108.640343750001,"end":15109.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15114.15846875,"end":15114.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15114.79971875,"end":15114.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15114.968468750001,"end":15115.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15115.27221875,"end":15115.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15115.64346875,"end":15115.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15115.94721875,"end":15117.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15116.099093750003,"end":15116.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15116.250968750002,"end":15121.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15121.85346875,"end":15124.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15124.469093750002,"end":15124.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15124.65471875,"end":15133.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15124.688468750002,"end":15124.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15134.25659375,"end":15153.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15155.215343750002,"end":15156.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15157.544093750003,"end":15158.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15159.78846875,"end":15164.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15165.30659375,"end":15165.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15166.09971875,"end":15168.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15168.90096875,"end":15173.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15173.406593750002,"end":15176.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15176.359718750002,"end":15176.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15176.781593750002,"end":15178.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15178.992218750001,"end":15182.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15182.485343750002,"end":15182.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15182.755343750003,"end":15182.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15182.77221875,"end":15182.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":15182.87346875,"end":15183.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15184.155968750001,"end":15185.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15191.024093750002,"end":15198.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15205.671593750001,"end":15207.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15207.629093750002,"end":15208.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15214.007843750001,"end":15214.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15214.649093750002,"end":15214.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15215.020343750002,"end":15218.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15219.67784375,"end":15223.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15224.85846875,"end":15225.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15226.64721875,"end":15232.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15233.19471875,"end":15241.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15241.868468750003,"end":15251.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15251.31846875,"end":15251.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15251.571593750003,"end":15252.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15252.617843750002,"end":15252.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15252.65159375,"end":15252.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15252.668468750002,"end":15264.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15258.524093750002,"end":15260.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15263.046593750001,"end":15263.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15264.734093750001,"end":15264.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15264.86909375,"end":15264.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15264.88596875,"end":15265.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15265.25721875,"end":15265.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15266.40471875,"end":15267.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15267.029093750003,"end":15268.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15268.075343750003,"end":15271.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15271.31534375,"end":15272.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15272.597843750002,"end":15273.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15273.84659375,"end":15274.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15274.977218750002,"end":15275.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15275.11221875,"end":15277.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15277.677218750003,"end":15288.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15282.149093750002,"end":15282.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15282.16596875,"end":15282.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15285.051593750002,"end":15285.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15288.13971875,"end":15288.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15288.426593750002,"end":15304.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15304.508468750002,"end":15313.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15313.688468750002,"end":15314.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15314.785343750002,"end":15314.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15314.802218750003,"end":15315.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15315.03846875,"end":15370.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15322.969718750002,"end":15323.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15371.012843750003,"end":15377.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15378.167843750001,"end":15382.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15382.757843750001,"end":15385.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15385.22159375,"end":15415.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15415.140968750002,"end":15415.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15415.765343750001,"end":15437.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15432.539093750001,"end":15433.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15437.888468750003,"end":15438.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15437.922218750002,"end":15441.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15441.347843750002,"end":15446.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15446.730968750002,"end":15456.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15456.029093750003,"end":15462.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15462.188468750002,"end":15462.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15462.20534375,"end":15462.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15462.981593750003,"end":15468.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15468.75284375,"end":15468.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15468.769718750002,"end":15468.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15468.938468750002,"end":15472.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15468.989093750002,"end":15469.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15473.258468750002,"end":15508.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15478.624718750001,"end":15479.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15501.743468750003,"end":15502.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15508.66221875,"end":15519.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15514.61909375,"end":15515.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15515.226593750001,"end":15515.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15519.00659375,"end":15519.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15519.20909375,"end":15521.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15521.31846875,"end":15522.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15522.58409375,"end":15543.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15543.542843750001,"end":15552.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15552.503468750001,"end":15552.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15552.790343750003,"end":15561.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15561.86909375,"end":15565.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15565.09221875,"end":15571.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15572.280968750001,"end":15572.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15572.297843750002,"end":15572.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15572.348468750002,"end":15584.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15572.399093750002,"end":15572.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15584.71784375,"end":15598.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15598.26846875,"end":15629.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15629.706593750001,"end":15630.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":15630.58409375,"end":15651.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15630.70221875,"end":15630.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15635.34284375,"end":15635.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":15648.30284375,"end":15648.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15651.84659375,"end":15652.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15654.090968750003,"end":15655.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15659.524718750003,"end":15662.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15662.528468750003,"end":15666.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15667.101593750001,"end":15669.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15669.44721875,"end":15673.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15673.699718750002,"end":15675.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15675.960968750001,"end":15682.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15688.39784375,"end":15692.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15699.24846875,"end":15759.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15760.21784375,"end":15775.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15765.347843750002,"end":15765.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15770.039093750001,"end":15770.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15775.793468750002,"end":15783.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15784.382843750001,"end":15869.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15869.83784375,"end":15902.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15902.575343750003,"end":15952.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15953.11596875,"end":16005.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16005.614093750002,"end":16020.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16013.089718750001,"end":16013.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16020.04221875,"end":16052.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16049.320343750001,"end":16049.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16053.134093750003,"end":16054.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16057.58909375,"end":16063.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16064.22096875,"end":16069.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16069.77284375,"end":16072.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16072.523468750001,"end":16077.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16078.36221875,"end":16086.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16087.305968750003,"end":16095.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":16096.03034375,"end":16096.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16108.973468750002,"end":16109.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":16109.935343750003,"end":16110.070343750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1742.346,"end":1750.074,"text":"好我們現在開始開會出席委員已主法定人數現在開始開會那請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1753.106,"end":1776.698,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議．事由．時間113年11月4日星期一上午9時至下午1時43分．點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員李坤哲等14人．列席委員蔓玉珍等28人．列席官員交通部部長陳士凱等．主席魯昭吉委員明哲報告四項宣讀上次會議一事錄決定一事錄確定"},{"start":1777.93,"end":1802.284,"text":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱等進行專題報告並備諮詢二、邀請交通部觀光署署長等進行專題報告並備諮詢本日會議由交通部部長陳世凱等報告後繼由委員李坤哲等25人提出諮詢均經交通部部長陳世凱及相關人員分別予以答覆決定一、報告及詢答完畢二為林倩起等二人所提書面諮詢"},{"start":1803.086,"end":1827.689,"text":"均列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分。請相關機關建樹以書面答覆。散會宣布完畢。好,謝謝。那我們現在先介紹列席人員。首先介紹數位發展部黃燕南部長。謝謝。還有我們數位策略司蔡壽幹司長。"},{"start":1830.285,"end":1838.453,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":1843.559,"end":1850.941,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":1871.228,"end":1898.084,"text":"數位產業署代理署長林俊秀國家資通安全研究院吳啟文副院長行政院主計總署公務預算處陳台偉科長本次進行資通安全署和數位產業署單位預算審查首先邀請數位發展部黃燕南部長報告"},{"start":1908.655,"end":1923.704,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好今天應邀列席委員會審查本部資通安全署跟數位產業署114年的單位預算深感榮幸感謝各位委員對本部各項業務的支持和指教"},{"start":1924.665,"end":1952.424,"text":"本部會扣合總統國家希望工程政見所提出的打造台灣成為智慧科技島的數位政策以及建構以人為本的數位新社會提出數位發展三支箭作為未來施政的重點聚焦於積極強化打造強化數位韌性發展數位經濟同時兼顧防弊和新力積極促進全民數位轉型"},{"start":1954.625,"end":1959.769,"text":"以下請梁署就114年施政計畫跟預算編列請行進行報告謝謝"},{"start":1976.004,"end":2001.144,"text":"主席、各位委員今天應邀來報告本署的114年施政計畫重點跟預算編列情形非常的榮幸首先先感謝各位委員給予本署業務上的指導跟支持讓我們的各項施政可以順利推展僅次上最高的謝程以上僅就113年預算執行情形跟114年度的施政重點預算編列情形來分別報告"},{"start":2003.151,"end":2017.958,"text":"一百一十三年度的預算執行我們分成稅入跟稅出那稅入我們有達標而且超標主要是因為我們的職能考試來應考的人比較多所以我們職能考試的那個收入負策評量的收入變多"},{"start":2019.139,"end":2026.842,"text":"二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通案件關於數位發展部資通案件關於數位發展部資通案件"},{"start":2048.729,"end":2066.271,"text":"自動系統的基礎架構還有資安威脅情勢分析的案子整個加進來之後我們整個的執行率可以到91.38那114年的市政重點我們有以下的重點第一個是推動自動安全法來完善我們的法規實務的運作"},{"start":2067.552,"end":2069.613,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":2083.5,"end":2100.433,"text":"第二點是我們會推動國家自動安全發展方案來提高整體的那個資安的整體發展策略的完備性然後來建立國家的資安聯防體系也會強化關鍵基礎設施的那個防護能量來"},{"start":2102.267,"end":2108.531,"text":"降低資安風險那我們也會把防護能量擴增到民間單位因為關鍵基礎設施其實有蠻多在民間單位然後我們也會強化公司協防來增加我國整體的資安防護的韌性那第三部分是我們有做那個資安的攬柴跟訓練賠利的工作那這個工作我們會加強公司協力來提升資安課程的開發跟培訓的量能而且也會辦"},{"start":2130.444,"end":2132.525,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2149.07,"end":2150.291,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位"},{"start":2168.146,"end":2168.166,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":2190.097,"end":2218.052,"text":"包含綜合規劃我們有推動國家資通安全管理方案也會推動那個資安聯防的生態系那在通報業務方面我們其實是加強整個資安事件的應儲跟情資的分享還有資安建設的經費輔導培訓的部分我們會辦理那個資通安全的人才培訓還有只能轉換等等的費用那集合的部分因為在明年度我們會增加集合的場次也會擴增到"},{"start":2219.99,"end":2243.29,"text":"關鍵基礎設施跟特定非公務機關還有其他的地方政府等所以我們也會全面推廣就是推加強我們資安的那個檢視跟全面建置我們的集合分析的環境也會加強我們的那個分析的能量然後在法規部分我們會推動資通安全法也會增加國際的合作"},{"start":2244.861,"end":2255.786,"text":"那本署為了推動國家資通安全發展政策還有推展資安主動防禦機制跟建立資安聯防集合人才培育的的機制來強化我國的整體的資安防護韌性114年的施政計劃其實是已經是依據我們真實的狀態去橫著"},{"start":2267.915,"end":2271.216,"text":"主席各位委員大家好今天應邀列席貴委員會報告本署114年施政重點"},{"start":2294.105,"end":2310.082,"text":"以及預算的編列請請深感榮幸首先感謝各位委員對本署在過去在各項業務上的支持跟指教以下就113年預算的執行情形以及114年的施政重點以及預算編列來跟各位委員會來報告"},{"start":2311.624,"end":2332.446,"text":"第一個是113年預算執行期在稅務的部分113年稅務預算是兩萬一千元那到十月底為止我們累計分配的預算數是一萬八千元累計執行數是八十一萬五千元當然執行率就超過不過主要是專戶的存款利息的收入"},{"start":2333.697,"end":2339.339,"text":"那稅出的部分是113年稅出的預算是35億5000多萬元到10月底為止累計分配的預算數是31億8000多萬元累計執行數是31億800多萬元執行率是97.71%"},{"start":2351.557,"end":2371.649,"text":"再來是有關114年施政重點的部分本組依據部長規劃的三支箭就是打炸強化數位韌性以及發展數位經濟作為施政主軸並且推動各項措施來加速各行各業的以及社會的數位轉型以下類數"},{"start":2372.85,"end":2397.742,"text":"第一個是厚植軟體基板建設優化政府的數位採購機制推動軟體及資訊服務業的發展並且協助產業來進行數位轉型我們會輔導資服業來轉型為雲服務而促進中小企業透過雲服務來開創一些新的商模以及新的市場我們會發展前瞻的數位科技培育跨領域的人才及國際合作交流"},{"start":2398.522,"end":2423.3,"text":"我們會鼓勵業者開發數位創新應用並且積極促進商轉以及開拓商機並且透過數位科技的導入帶動各行各業數位能力的提升二、推動次世代通訊跨域的應用我們會加速業者提升5G專屏專網的整合技術並且與業界共同開發具有商業價值的應用服務"},{"start":2424.241,"end":2435.649,"text":"透過數位內容軟體服務以及通訊設備的垂直整合協同網通業者、應用業者以及系統整合業者共同進行場域的深化試煉來發展數位經濟產業協助業者進行數位轉型"},{"start":2439.918,"end":2469.35,"text":"三、以資料創新為核心發展多元資料的普惠工具。護導業界投入人工智慧創新的應用以及加速創新產品的商轉落地建立與國際接軌的AI的認驗證的體系來加速可信任AI的發展並且培育AI的人才擴大AI產業的應用促進產業AI化及AI產業化的目標我們會積極透過這個資工訓科技的應用來協助公司來打仗"},{"start":2469.77,"end":2475.393,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：完整會議"},{"start":2490.18,"end":2494.022,"text":"在深化資安的關鍵技術的研發並且促進資安產業的發展。我們會推動精明通用的這個資安的關鍵技術以及無人機的資安檢測並且促進國防資安的國產化另外我們會協助產業來強化通信基礎建設"},{"start":2507.91,"end":2534.348,"text":"目聯網及公共等資通訊的安全來鞏固我們在全世界供應鏈的關鍵地位我們會以系統整合策略、跨域服務稱與國際的數位產業的協作推動臺灣成為數位技術數位科技解決方案的供應樞紐加速我國智慧解決方案的對外展示以及拓銷並且協助地方運用數位科技來發展創新性共通性的數位公共服務輔導其參與國際評評比如說ICF"},{"start":2537.822,"end":2564.67,"text":"並提升我國自衛城市的國際年間度在114年的預算的編列請指首先是稅率的部分114年稅率編列是八十萬兩千元較上年度預算增加了七十八萬元那主要就是剛說過的專務存款的利息收入在稅出的部分114年稅出的預算編列四十五億三千多萬元較上年度的三十五億五千多萬增加九億元"},{"start":2566.211,"end":2593.669,"text":"各業務的編列情形如下首先是一般行政我們編了兩億六千多萬元是因為本署的人員的維持會以及基本的行政的工作維持等等較上年度增加一千多萬元主要是減類我們在華光特二的一個先期規劃的368萬元但是我們增列的我們因為打砸增加13個13個那個元額的人事會以及員工的薪資"},{"start":2595.472,"end":2618.592,"text":"再來是促進數位創新動能轉型升級我們編列了42億6千多萬較上年度32億增加9億多主要是包括底下那第一個是在資通訊的數位升級的金額我們編列17億較上年度減列了高齡的這個1億4千多萬增列了我們的跨域軟體基板的1億9千多萬"},{"start":2619.292,"end":2644.846,"text":"另外在策進數位跨域應用及平台服務經費的這個項目底下我們編列了25億9千多萬叫上到去年度的增加了9億多萬主要是第一個是我們要推展這個AI包括深層式AI以及建北式AI這個是對台灣未來是相當重要的所以我們編列了21億叫上年度增加7億多元然後第二個我們持續會"},{"start":2646.167,"end":2648.93,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":2664.203,"end":2685.554,"text":"結語的部分本屬以提升產業供應鏈與全民數位韌性整合與學導各部位的資源並且從推動社會共榮加速產業轉型強化應變韌性的變相來強化數位114年預算西佩爾整體政策請請各位委員能夠會議支持跟指教最後敬祝各位身體健康萬事如意謝謝好謝謝林代理署長的報告"},{"start":2690.238,"end":2704.63,"text":"現在補充介紹在場委員首先歡迎林佩祥委員接下來介紹李昆澤委員我們現在先來確定上次會議議事錄請問各位委員對議事錄有沒有意見沒有意見議事錄確定"},{"start":2711.741,"end":2737.275,"text":"現在進行詢答先宣告以下事項詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息好那現在請登記第一位委員林沛翔委員發言"},{"start":2751.462,"end":2776.219,"text":"好謝謝主席有請黃部長黃部長其實我們都很清楚我們知道說速發部算是針對打詐的第一線那請問你知道到目前為止到今年11月到目前為止每一個月我們國家被打詐金額是多少"},{"start":2776.741,"end":2798.527,"text":"每天大概3到6億嘛大概100億對所以每個月所以現在目前已經超過1000億那我在這邊看到的預算在這個應該是知安那個應該是那個數產署的另外一個裡面有一個有關是今年對老實講我覺得這個編列預算我總覺得有點怪怪的我們今年只編了3億來去針對數位的這個數位的那個智慧防詐"},{"start":2803.968,"end":2808.129,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議"},{"start":2826.855,"end":2826.875,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":2847.251,"end":2871.512,"text":"因為我們當初期待部長過來就是因為部長是業界的人對吧那我其實是在看整個預算的時候我發現一些奇怪的地方請問一下部長以業界的角度來看一個所謂的Email Emphasis Threat Detection Platform也就是所謂的這個電郵跟惡意威脅的建制平台請問在業界知道這個平台要多少錢"},{"start":2874.315,"end":2874.675,"text":"拜託請問兩年3800萬之後"},{"start":2903.794,"end":2915.117,"text":"總共兩年花了我們納稅前7600萬那請問他的成效在哪裡?請問資安署吧請問資安署花了7600萬之後成效在哪裡?對於他這個EmailEmail and Visual Threat Detection Platform"},{"start":2920.979,"end":2934.989,"text":"這就是所謂的電郵跟惡意威脅的那個溝通平台請問你花了七千六百萬那我想請問說當部長講說其實幾百萬就有東西為什麼花七千六百萬那成效在哪裡那個包括那只是軟體還有維運維運我們剛剛沒有講維運的費用"},{"start":2938.131,"end":2941.472,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":2956.016,"end":2973.23,"text":"我只是...而且其他的還有其他什麼資...我記得我那時候看到很多平台欸那這些平台到底發揮了什麼功用呢每一個都是1800萬、3000萬、3000萬、2000萬的這個平台至少4到5個平台對吧你們...對吧我只是...這個我需要...我都需要細部資料喔"},{"start":2973.971,"end":2986.125,"text":"因為既然我看到我們都覺得很奇怪而且甚至來講說為什麼這個所謂的這個整體政府資通安全防禦技術即系統韌性強化經費"},{"start":2989.448,"end":3015.684,"text":"總共14億今年就編了將近7億我記得沒有錯今年就編了將近7億那可是我直接進去看裡面那個預算書的時候好短啊三句話13億就不見了請問一下到底你們做什麼事情呢而且說給政府來做活用然後用宿外科技來解決重大社會事件要花14億對吧是你們自己寫的啊你們把那本書拿出來自己編的預算怎麼不知道呢"},{"start":3018.277,"end":3037.663,"text":"我不會預設立想說你們亂編但是你們這些到底講些什麼東西部長你知道你自己下面編的這14億到什麼地方去了嗎委員你們現在講的是哪一個預算他們說他們沒有看到這一筆沒有資通安全署你們上面自己也有寫資通安全署上面整體政府資通安全防疫技術暨系統韌性強化強化經費總經費將近14億分4年辦理"},{"start":3042.645,"end":3052.567,"text":"今年就要負責說負責6億9500萬這是你們自己寫的在上面啊那我直接看進去裡面預算書的時候裡面只給我五六句"},{"start":3054.505,"end":3074.232,"text":"部長我很好奇我們國家納稅錢就是隨隨便便這樣編出來的啊報告委員基本上我沒有看到14億的這個這樣你們自己寫的耶這是你們先來報你們自己都不認帳啊"},{"start":3078.498,"end":3106.548,"text":"我個人我從來不會預設立場但是你們這邊自己寫說14億資通安全署負責6億9591萬那我就很好奇說你們這個東西寫的說是用數位科技去解決重大社會事件然後講的說用什麼要符合政府的彈性那這到底是怎麼回事"},{"start":3107.95,"end":3129.18,"text":"拜託部長如果連你都不知道的時候你們如果第一時間你們今天來這邊是來這邊就是來來幹嘛的報告委員這一筆預算是我們提的計畫是除了那個單數之外還有其他部會我們一起做的聯訪提的那個計畫預算那你們在幹嘛幾句你可以算得出來吧很短那七句就13億就不見了那為什麼會怎麼會有這種東西呢任性兩個字就代表13億嗎"},{"start":3138.431,"end":3152.736,"text":"報告委員其實這個是所有的部會在4年要執行的預算並不是全部資安署資安署在整體的預算是7億在14年什麼叫做用數位科技解決社會重大事件"},{"start":3153.556,"end":3173.309,"text":"報告委員我先跟您簡單報告一下資安署114年要做的事情第一個是對不起我是針對這個預算而且老實講資安署是因為你們編的資訊我們在看的時候覺得很納悶這錢怎麼會這樣子做包括剛剛講的這些還有資訊人才資訊人才交流流通平台1800萬"},{"start":3176.291,"end":3203.332,"text":"就在你剛剛我剛剛講這個上面是報告委員這個我想請問這些平台的功用到底最後在哪裡因為我們當我們在看整個預算的時候我只能講兩個字疑惑而且我老實講我是我是當初去看的時候是以不預設立場情況去看的可是當我跟那些專業人士去討論的時候發覺說這幾筆預算好奇怪甚至如果說就拿直接上面來講說辦理國家資通安全政策3億對吧"},{"start":3205.285,"end":3229.651,"text":"那3億那個數字難怪人家說一句話說要看細節魔鬼在細節裡面可是會覺得說哇這到底是怎麼回事呢我覺得我會我會請我辦公室每一筆每一筆我都需要詳細說每一筆每一筆我都需要資料因為我說真的我如果說動不動13億就7億就不見了那我會絕無法接受"},{"start":3230.571,"end":3231.912,"text":"我今天老實講,部長"},{"start":3252.822,"end":3278.77,"text":"你如果你是我在這個位置上面你看到這筆錢這樣亂用的時候你會覺得說我們國家的納稅及我們國家的財政如果說困難一天到晚取債是為了些什麼那我要請部長請數位發展部提供各項計畫細部的計畫的整表沒問題我們會說明但是那個剛剛委員看到很多事全部部會加起來的資安預算所以這個我們再提細部說明好謝謝"},{"start":3282.995,"end":3288.439,"text":"好謝謝林佩祥委員接下來邀請林國成委員發言好謝謝主席請黃部長請黃部長治安署署長還有產業署林代理署長林委員早"},{"start":3313.757,"end":3333.688,"text":"委員長好部長我要特別剛才林佩祥委員阿在做詢答的時候我建議阿我建議所有要說明的就說明不要簡單跟我們報告因為我們要很認真的來做執行"},{"start":3334.548,"end":3363.049,"text":"但是你簡單跟我們報告這個是對院會非常不尊重的用意這點我想等一下備詢的官員通通不要對我們簡單的報告要很真心的很認真的來回答問題如果用簡單的報告那你的意思叫我們也是簡單來審一審喔所以部長這個我是給你建議因為數位部委剛成立不久"},{"start":3363.979,"end":3381.308,"text":"其實任何編列預算因為今天主席拍這個測程除了詢答之外也要了解你們編列預算整個過程我還是建議我還是建議主計人員隨時要在旁邊部長"},{"start":3382.489,"end":3410.355,"text":"可能是瞭解大問題但是小細節主計人員如何編應該他會比較熟悉這點我是一個小小的建議來第一個部長我相信啊你管不了這個第一個資安署對於員工編列預算去年跟今年差一千多萬"},{"start":3412.601,"end":3427.053,"text":"這個原因在哪邊來回答一下來我請那個署長報告委員請我跟你講人眼一樣一百多人但是這個部分為什麼少一千多萬"},{"start":3428.018,"end":3455.632,"text":"是,我們其實是配合部的主計的要求,那部的主計是說因為曾屬的人﹗沒有啦,那一千多萬是什麼啦他是說曾屬的員工有些時候常常被外面給挖走嘛,所以就是不是always都有人,所以部的主計是信我們就是不用滿編這樣子好來,主計的議員來,他編這個預算是少了一千多萬"},{"start":3457.782,"end":3480.023,"text":"跟委員報告齁那因為人事事案你不要跟我簡單報告齁認真的報告好不好是謝謝那我們按照他的資安署的編制預算顏額那逐項去逐顏額去算按照他每一位都有他的職等職務類等那第二個就是說我們機關成立了兩年度"},{"start":3480.043,"end":3481.764,"text":"來部長你聽的我告訴你們這裡面就是什麼兩種"},{"start":3508.803,"end":3532.55,"text":"一就是加班費二就是獎金我就覺得很奇怪啊我們比對起來是這兩項欸你們人緣都一樣欸人緣都一樣欸但是我們比對起來確確實實就是加班費跟獎金的部分是大幅三減"},{"start":3533.854,"end":3562.096,"text":"我的意思你們當然可以刪減但是我們身為民意代表我相信我們所有的立法委員一定是主張該刪的刪不該刪的不要刪但是不能回了其他單位但是授了所有的員工所以這點部長我坦白跟你講我們發現這一千多萬就是加班會嘛"},{"start":3563.517,"end":3590.989,"text":"還有一個就是獎金嘛所以我們比對出來是這樣如果你們認為這不是這樣那為什麼今天我會提出這個問題讓部長瞭解你們自己要去看一看你用挪作我們的立場很簡單立法院的立場該用的用不該用的刪但是這些東西是我們職工的加班費跟他的獎金我認為這沒有必要欸"},{"start":3592.149,"end":3609.178,"text":"為什麼因為這署裡面現在要面臨的挑戰是打詐的問題要不要加班你們只有欸聘僱人員三十幾個編列總共是一百多個人欸要加班欸你都不給他加班費啊你是要叫人家啦"},{"start":3611.254,"end":3638.84,"text":"這是一個勞務的刻薄所以保定我給你建議這個部分你們好好稍微去調適一下我們不是針對預算是希望你們不要對這些職工對這些公務人員對以加班會跟獎金的苛刻我的理由很簡單保定我是歡迎這些給你啊這個也是代表我們所有的立法委員是有在看你們的預算的"},{"start":3639.71,"end":3653.839,"text":"是有在看你們的預算的雖然一千多萬我們也可以打pass過去可是最起碼我們的立場是替所有的公務人員所有的聘僱人員他的加班費獎金不能少"},{"start":3655.217,"end":3676.564,"text":"為什麼這個部分我建議部長好好去瞭解一下謝謝委員那主席好來謝謝委員那也拜託委員能夠支持我們的預算那這個有關於員工的法律義務我們絕對不會去刻口那在執行的時候我們也會請治安署的調配"},{"start":3678.044,"end":3697.075,"text":"主席人員我跟你講我時間有限啦我還有議題啦我要拜託這個部分不要嘴巴這樣講那我抓出來就是你的加班費跟獎金是減少的其他通通沒有減少針對職工跟公務人員的苛刻這一點我們是不贊同的"},{"start":3697.835,"end":3725.462,"text":"當然你們編列了預算我們只能刪可是這個刪下去怎麼辦呢這個我希望部長你們要亡羊補牢可以受了自己不要受了我們的職工這一點我認為你們以後責任很重大這個部分加班是勢必的因為你們面對這些新的挑戰你們說不加班我才不相信"},{"start":3726.562,"end":3731.588,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署"},{"start":3747.031,"end":3763.139,"text":"有沒有被盜用?報告委員沒有但是我請市長做個說明簡單簡單簡單是沒有報告委員我們知道這個消息之後我們就有去查包括我們整個平台發送簡訊的狀況還有請電信業者幫我們查都沒有找到冒用的情況"},{"start":3763.999,"end":3782.158,"text":"有喔高雄有一件喔欸我們召回在這裡高雄有一件你們這一件查了怎麼樣這個刑事檢查局現在在查啦那他們出過的那你說沒有欸對他們出過的想法是說那個是那個可能是偉茂的一個基地台是啦"},{"start":3783.959,"end":3809.129,"text":"那你們不是在宣導111短碼簡信是政府的東西是不會被騙結果你知道嗎騙的人是用你們111欸下去是詐騙集團連結欸那也沒有關係要查清楚好不好對啦不要黃部長的名字被人家去盜用那這個欸這個111就是你的招牌欸"},{"start":3810.349,"end":3810.929,"text":"壯庫供給這個你知道嗎?"},{"start":3840.953,"end":3841.413,"text":"撞庫供給"},{"start":3861.199,"end":3864.74,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":3879.426,"end":3905.274,"text":"我希望部長要去責成現在的壯庫供給是最新穎的東西所以拜託國定JDI資安署或什麼東西要全部動員去破解他這些不能讓讓讓最後一個就是我們的媒體媒體溢價化"},{"start":3906.345,"end":3909.751,"text":"媒體議價法到底你們現在因為公聽會我們開過喔"},{"start":3913.621,"end":3936.076,"text":"你曾經有一段時間也要來跟我溝通這個你能不能現在做的情形簡單二要跟我說明現在做到什麼時候我們現在就是這個需要跨部會協調所以我們現在就是在在行政院不是啦普通我知道啦你跨部會但是你們總是要有一個輪廓嘛那到最後才行政院去跨部會嘛"},{"start":3937.657,"end":3939.058,"text":"接下來邀請李坤哲委員發言"},{"start":3971.078,"end":3994.531,"text":"謝謝主席請一下黃部長還有數位產業署林俊秀代理署長還有林代理署長委員長部長好我們臺灣的這種遊戲產業它的發展性的空間非常的大那如果我們看到PwC就是全球娛樂及媒體業的這樣的一個展望報告之中"},{"start":3995.211,"end":3999.816,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議二、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議"},{"start":4014.91,"end":4041.485,"text":"遊戲產業的市場調查公司NewRule的這個調查報告2024年全球遊戲產業的產值大概是6兆910億元那2027年會增加到6兆9217億那台灣是數位的先進國家啦那我們在全球的市場所佔的比例不到3%為什麼是我們的"},{"start":4043.223,"end":4065.235,"text":"能力不足還是政策錯誤還是預算不夠來請說明一下那個報告委員那個遊戲產業的確是一個很大的一個市場那的確這個我們都很重視那素產署本來就有一些Program在補助遊戲業者那當然這個我個人認為就是我們現在"},{"start":4066.676,"end":4067.356,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":4087.299,"end":4110.295,"text":"不管是在相關的遊戲產業或是相關的應用方面我們不管是我們的科技、我們的人力、我們的數值其實都在世界來說都是名列世界前茅的但是我們的數位的這樣一個電競遊戲這樣一個產業它是最沒有國界的一個產業但是我們占不到全世界的3%來來請蘇亮簡單說明一下"},{"start":4113.872,"end":4130.537,"text":"我希望台灣人能夠玩台灣的遊戲所以我們在109年開始就補助獨立遊戲因為這個他們都是很有創意而且很有製作能力的我們到目前109年每年補助8到10家的話現在應該有大概7到8個已經在發行"},{"start":4132.077,"end":4146.904,"text":"市長我簡單跟你說明一下2021年行政院就開始推行智慧國家方案就是透過獎勵跟補助的方式來讓這些整個國家的這些數位產業電競遊戲這些都能夠朝向這樣一個重要的無國界的產業能夠有實力的一個發展"},{"start":4155.087,"end":4179.987,"text":"但是我們來看數位部的補助其實是不夠的杯水車薪是沒有辦法建立良性的循環我們來看目前遊戲的製作成本手機遊戲大概是500到800萬單機遊戲大概是400到1000萬那大型的主機遊戲它可能要高達上億以上了署長應該很清楚但是我們數產署的獨立遊戲開發獎勵暨產品化的加值計畫"},{"start":4185.663,"end":4194.709,"text":"從2020年到2024年5年之間總共補助了43款的遊戲平均每款補助180萬元這樣要怎麼做數位電競遊戲的這樣的一個產業推廣呢 來說明一下"},{"start":4204.452,"end":4204.472,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":4225.333,"end":4251.971,"text":"你現在號稱有100億但是我們看到我們整體數位部的這個預算編列這種創新軟體才編了大概1億9千萬今年喔明年是更少1億7千萬你看看你這個補助每款才補助180萬元而已那這個獎勵沒力啦沒力嘛你就預算也不夠然後誠意也不足"},{"start":4253.572,"end":4274.923,"text":"我們來看這個遊戲產業是可以推動世界來認識台灣我們有好的文化實力你看台灣國產遊戲2017年的這個返校那以台灣白色恐怖時期來做背景創作那我們看到這個玩家統計國外的玩家超過9成而且可以延伸更多的影視作品"},{"start":4277.12,"end":4305.211,"text":"遊戲產業我們來看世界各國也都改編很多影視的作品瑪莉歐、神奇寶貝、惡靈古堡之類的古墓奇兵、憤怒鳥還有文化特色的遊戲不管是信長系列、對馬、戰鬼、人中之龍、戰神、刺客教條這不只是電競不只是數位的產業它還是一種推動文化宣傳一個重要的途徑來簡單說明一下我們做了什麼"},{"start":4309.426,"end":4331.243,"text":"我們目前也希望他把臺灣的這個文化的元素融入他但是做世界的發行所以這個是我們我們現在也在找發行商報告我來具體建議啦我剛才都說你們這個遊戲才補助180萬做一個小型的遊戲都要400萬以上我們的這個補助啊真的是沒有辦法去推動這麼重要的"},{"start":4331.903,"end":4332.023,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4349.046,"end":4374.197,"text":"我具體的建議部長應該要爭取預算要增加補助金額及業者的名額第二在原有的補助基礎之上要舉辦玩家的票選期待遊戲的活動那得獎遊戲列為增加補助名額以及增加獎助的金額然後增加互動性同時也要促進遊戲的曝光跟文化的宣傳"},{"start":4375.177,"end":4389.45,"text":"另外要建立講注政策進入良性的循環就是保留既有的講注政策之外應該要研擬未來來成立發展基金以投資的方式來輔助業者進行遊戲開發並且將收益滾入基金持續來擴大投資的規模來促進臺灣遊戲及數位應用的產業發展部長那你簡單說明一下"},{"start":4401.882,"end":4409.593,"text":"謝謝委員建議我覺得這個建議都很好那我想這個我們再回去看怎麼樣在我們的那個這個遊戲的這個一個計畫裡面去做調整好那現在我們還有一個重要的問題就台灣的開發遊戲啊"},{"start":4417.364,"end":4439.793,"text":"但是收益卻過半都是國外的業者我們現在目前的遊戲平台大家都知道遊戲平台業者大概收取收益大概30%那跨國稅款大概10至15%那剩下的才由開發商跟發行商來依照協議的比例拆分或者是評分那台灣的開發團隊"},{"start":4441.474,"end":4465.79,"text":"大概擁有的收益大概只有25%左右那臺灣的遊戲產業的收益無法最大化那我們應該要協助國內的遊戲發行商來建立全球的行銷能力這個部長跟署長你也應該都知道我們現在很多的這種電競遊戲的發行其實都是跟中國合作"},{"start":4467.24,"end":4489.97,"text":"那其實沒有自己的發行商那這樣會造成很多的問題如果中國在這樣數位產業的競爭他要卡住我們我們的數位的電競遊戲發展空間就一下子幾乎幾乎會被團滅了第二他們也都會進行實質的審查那之前有一個遊戲還願"},{"start":4492.407,"end":4512.204,"text":"委員本來是有上架後來查到說裡面有一個什麼鬍鬚有寫習維尼或什麼就被下架他下架之後他沒有辦法在其他地方再上市再上架了因為他們有訂合約嗎然後我們看到整個我們台灣培養了很多遊戲團隊也會被中國買走啊我們沒有自己的這樣的一個"},{"start":4518.905,"end":4535.92,"text":"全球的行銷能力,我們沒有這樣一個平台來再說明一下,部長這要怎麼樣?委員這個建議都很好了,就是這個建議全球行銷能力。部長今天我來一直你都說很好,然後就是說你們目前都做得不好嘛。其實就是這樣。"},{"start":4538.882,"end":4550.646,"text":"因為時間的關係我最後再講一個我們講座計畫的審查委員全部都是男性其實我認為是違反性別比例原則那國際跟國內的業者去統計台灣的遊戲從業人員女性已經超過三分之一"},{"start":4557.788,"end":4560.91,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":4582.675,"end":4587.499,"text":"至少不得少於三分之一單一性別不得少於三分之一這個沒有問題吧那相關的對於台灣的"},{"start":4593.528,"end":4619.021,"text":"電競遊戲的發展數位部的相關的補助以及政策我最後時間讓部長你再簡單的說明一下對就是剛剛的委員有幾個建議那個補助的爭取我們會就是說再看再去再去調整看怎麼樣去爭取更多機會不過目前我們還是覺得就是說可能要找最有效的補助方法就是說是不是要比較"},{"start":4619.881,"end":4620.361,"text":"接下來邀請林俊憲委員發言"},{"start":4655.574,"end":4659.097,"text":"社群媒體對於未成年的危害有沒有造成危害?"},{"start":4677.269,"end":4702.523,"text":"大人﹚我們總是成年人﹚有沒有辦法來幫助這些未成年人因為最近澳洲要定一個法律這個法律非常的引起國際注意澳洲準備要定一個法律16歲以下的未成年人禁止使用社群軟體澳洲這個立法獨步全球"},{"start":4703.872,"end":4705.314,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":4723.532,"end":4736.569,"text":"來向抖音提出司法控告因為他們認為抖音的內容造成兩名青少年自殺請問部長知道這位訊息嗎?"},{"start":4738.752,"end":4763.992,"text":"那個澳洲的我知道,那法國的我...好,你大概了解,那你知道我們國內我們的兒少我們的未成年人使用社群軟體的狀況嗎?我引用一個數字跟你參考這是一個NGO的調查他說我們的未成年人大概是國高中生有95%幾乎全部都有啦,有使用社群軟體"},{"start":4765.407,"end":4789.736,"text":"那最多的是Instagram。Instagram有78%啦。Facebook有73%。抖音有61%。也就是說額兆最常使用的社群軟體就是這三個。Instagram、Facebook還有TikTok。那平均每一個"},{"start":4791.26,"end":4819.803,"text":"二成年人使用3.5個平台社群平台其中國中生使用最多的是抖音還有Facebook還有臉書高中生使用比較多的是Instagram這數字給你參考那我們的小孩子會不會沉浸在這些社群軟體裡面呢那經過他的調查這受罪也很可怕他一個禮拜要花35個小時"},{"start":4821.82,"end":4822.921,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":4840.134,"end":4861.307,"text":"你就是說我們的下一代啊大概已經高度都是網路中毒啦就每天你都一定要在上面那你在網路上也沒關係啦重點是你在做什麼事那如果你接觸的比如說一個禮拜35個小時平均1天5個小時都在社群平台上那會接觸到什麼東西有沒有負面的東西啊"},{"start":4862.208,"end":4886.904,"text":"但是這個調查裡面告訴我們有過半那56%的未成年人他們在網路社群平台會接觸到不良的東西也就是所謂的負面的東西那哪些負面的東西呢假訊息不符合年齡的廣告這前三名第三就是社群的影印還有訊息請問部長你對這些有沒有什麼看法"},{"start":4889.549,"end":4904.304,"text":"確實這是一個問題那我那個我的瞭解是這個當我們觀察香港提到澳洲的做法那在因為這個東西牽涉到其實牽涉到衛福部牽涉到教育部所以我想我們跨部會會來討論怎麼去對這做進行一個防治"},{"start":4904.684,"end":4906.446,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":4928.229,"end":4955.291,"text":"這些青少年都是我們國家的未來如果他們從小就沉溺在網路上而且有這麼高比例都接觸到負面不良的東西那當然會影響他們的心智發展甚至影響到國家的未來所以澳洲才會訂出這樣的法律也才引起國際上高度的關注例如現在很多國家都控告抖音"},{"start":4956.252,"end":4973,"text":"因為它裡面有一些非常奇特、很不良的東西,像自殺。最近包括美國政府、法國、義大利都控告抖音上面,尤其對於青少年不利資訊裡面的自殺,他們認為是受到很大一個影響。"},{"start":4974.161,"end":5003.336,"text":"尤其各國都會在防制自殺都希望把那個自殺比例降低就其中就非常不正常的就15到24歲的自殺率包括台灣這是我們台灣的數字也都是只有他這個年紀逐步的在增加除了他在這個年紀的心智發展還沒有很成熟以外我講的是15到24歲因為受到不良社群媒體尤其像抖音這種的傳播也會是一個重要因素"},{"start":5004.62,"end":5025.551,"text":"我再給部長參考根據國際的統計全世界受到境外假訊息影響前五名的國家第一名是台灣第二名拉脫維亞第三名巴勒斯坦第四伊朗第五蒙特內國等等對外散播假訊息假訊息製造"},{"start":5027.065,"end":5041.423,"text":"前五名的國家是尼加拉瓜、北韓、委內瑞拉、中國所以台灣也受到境外假訊息的影響那其中瑞典有一個國際很出名的"},{"start":5043.923,"end":5069.598,"text":"雷典德堡大學2024年的報告他說受到境外尤其是來自境外攻擊假訊息最嚴重的國家臺灣已經連續11年殘年第一名首位就是我們受假訊息攻擊連續11年都是全世界最嚴重的國家那我們的假訊息主要從哪裡來?一定是來自中國那部長有沒有什麼辦法?"},{"start":5071.109,"end":5087.467,"text":"部長我記得你在7月的時候你曾經到我們委員會你也提出過報告那針對這樣的假訊息部長說要成立一個委員會來處理我不知道目前這相關的事情你做了怎麼樣包括那個我當時提的是說這個假訊息的判讀"},{"start":5088.348,"end":5108.604,"text":"我們應該是有個獨立的一個委員會來判讀但是剛講這機制面啊機制面就是我剛講就是我們現在跟像剛講這幾個平台商是有一個管道就是說他們像打造法裡面讓我們納管四個公司六個平台我們用這個方式可以要求他們下架某些訊息包括可以包括假訊息"},{"start":5109.324,"end":5131.656,"text":"那所以就是說確實有管道我們可以看到如果不宜的訊息包括假廣告或是詐騙或是剛講的這種錯誤的訊息我們是有管道可以叫他們下架先用這個機制先叫他們先處理那至於說將來這個真跟假的判讀我個人認為說還是需要有個獨立的一個委員會來處理那這部分還在討論中"},{"start":5133.197,"end":5152.266,"text":"你還在討論我們都連續11年受到境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家那部長也上任那麼上任那麼久了這個確實是需要在那個我個人認為說這個委員會但是當時部長有說啦那假訊息你要處理你比如你要要求他下架那最基本的"},{"start":5153.186,"end":5153.767,"text":"打詐是領平台跟我們的配合"},{"start":5168.342,"end":5189.01,"text":"有進行了如何?有嗎?效果有嗎?現在詐騙還是這麼嚴重喔?還是國人最不滿的原因之一喔?11月底我們會把這個納管包括法則跟下架事情會寫出來11月就這個月啊11月底就在11月底之後這個月底"},{"start":5190.691,"end":5207.875,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5207.955,"end":5208.535,"text":"接下來邀請油耗委員發言"},{"start":5254.983,"end":5257.625,"text":"李坤哲委員提到目前在臺灣的電玩產業速發部還有積極的許多的一些相關的補助跟計畫的措施"},{"start":5279.045,"end":5297.593,"text":"目前來講在台灣的電競的產業的發展在競賽項目從2018年亞加達還把它列為亞運的表演項目再到2022年杭州亞運把它列為正式的比賽項目那本期在這裡還是就延續的也建議那數發部資可以針對台灣的電競產業以及電競的這個發展就發展能夠重點式的來做協助因為如果說這種"},{"start":5306.357,"end":5336.357,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5336.792,"end":5336.932,"text":"對,沒有錯,對。"},{"start":5357.273,"end":5378.818,"text":"那接著剛才林軍憲委有提到這實名制的部分那因為目前來講如果說數位發展部在打砸的部分在預算編列未來也會針對這個打砸的預算的這個部分來去做提升那可是這個實名制的話目前來推動的一個進程那想請這個部長是不是可以簡單回答一下"},{"start":5379.578,"end":5395.87,"text":"對實名制我們現在就是說在網路上實名制我們有電子簽章法然後數位簽章也同時推動那將來就希望說用這些技術能夠很就是很就讓那個這些剛講的平台上可以很容易去驗證登廣告人是不是實名這個"},{"start":5396.51,"end":5397.23,"text":"好,那拭目以待"},{"start":5419.704,"end":5423.507,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5436.697,"end":5455.284,"text":"這個目前來講就是速發部在於許多的業務的部分經費上其實是大量的外包啊那當然的尾半那尤其是像22億的一個經費幾乎有13億是對於國內團體的捐助補助那本市長直接請教一下部長"},{"start":5456.064,"end":5481.401,"text":"那在這個部分來講他的這些捐助補助的名單也沒有在網路上面去做揭示那這些部分如何能夠讓社會各界可以認同數發部本身來講部長跟部內的同仁其實也都有專業但是卻都用這個偽辦的方式來去進行就像是一個採購中心或是轉報中心那這個部長要如何來去做改進以及如何來公告"},{"start":5482.101,"end":5482.521,"text":"這個有公告採購"},{"start":5508.954,"end":5528.291,"text":"好那沒關係那其實這個本席還是辦公室這邊其實確實也有在就是書發部跟相關的平台來去做瀏覽那其實這個經費上將近20億其中13億都是對於這個去做捐助補助的部分那其實訊息公告跟揭露需要改善啊需要加強啊"},{"start":5528.911,"end":5551.909,"text":"不管是在技術的研發上或是在許多做宣傳的部分那我是覺得可以讓民眾是看得更清楚也可以讓我坦白講訴發部之前的話一直被評為就是都在做這個網軍跟大內宣可是我坦白講現在部長您是專業的部長那可以把這個部分去對訴發部大家所作的不白之願來去做洗白"},{"start":5552.329,"end":5582.329,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5583.249,"end":5587.671,"text":"目前在鄉鎮市數位發展程度分類表南投縣幾乎都還有四個鄉鎮在五級區域其中有六個鄉鎮是屬於數位發展盲洞區"},{"start":5604.136,"end":5625.881,"text":"那看了這個資安署以及數產署及數化部的本部預算那這個部分來講我想直接請教一下部長或是相關同仁在明年度預計會在南投提升這個數位落差以及數位的這種發展改善的經費預計會是多少的金額?那個數證師王市長"},{"start":5628.823,"end":5647.551,"text":"因為其實22縣市我相信出發部其實一直以來都有針對比較弱的鄉鎮再去做一個改善跟提升所以說其實這個各縣市來講的話其實這資料數據其實都有那想請教一下在明年不南投的話會有哪些的部分目前預計以及提升的成效預計如何"},{"start":5648.662,"end":5675.128,"text":"報告委員因為這個資料比較細我們是不是會後再跟委員提供鄉鎮不用但是縣的部分稍微提一下因為他們會提計畫然後計畫我們審查之後然後會撥那個經費給他們那樣子那因為以目前的話我們大概是每年會補助大概8到9個縣市那我們這個部分的話我們詳細的數字我們再給委員這邊那有沒有預計針對這樣子比較算是四五級或是盲洞區的這種地區來講的話有加強輔導"},{"start":5678.569,"end":5694.343,"text":"對,因為有些縣市他是比較不會寫計畫他需要經費他不會寫那這個部分我們都會去輔導他們怎麼樣去根據他們的需求去把這個計畫書或是說把他們要做的事情把它寫得比較好一點讓委員這邊可以比較同意他們的一個提出來一個經費的需求"},{"start":5695.316,"end":5713.974,"text":"好那目前這個部分就就持續就請協助了好那我就不去再做那個那但是同樣的後面還是會請您把22縣市在去年跟今年預計要做的已經以及執行完成的部分一樣是給本市辦公室一個資料"},{"start":5714.514,"end":5729.957,"text":"因為在南投要改善這個數位落差我相信其實之前部長在這個會期討論預算的時候其實我們就已經有去做過探討那本期還是希望說訴發部他是可以主動出席甚至來去協助這些縣市來做改善"},{"start":5730.538,"end":5748.229,"text":"那當然目標我們看到現況是如何那如何能夠在錢花在刀口上尤其是在南投縣那是有一些地方他還是在屬於第5級區或是在蒙洞區的部分那本期是希望能夠實際上協助到南投縣謝謝好謝謝有緣謝謝部長那接下來質詢的是我們陳淑月早委"},{"start":5763.936,"end":5768.639,"text":"謝謝主席請主席邀請黃部長還有謝署長來黃部長謝署長部長早安那今天委員會是就是就這個資通安全署跟數位產業署的預算進行詢答那本期在這邊是主要針對這個資安的問題跟政策來請教我們部長跟署長"},{"start":5792.91,"end":5798.212,"text":"我們都知道資安就是國安可是我覺得說現在就是這個科技的進步我覺得我們每一個人真的都是隨時的暴露在這個資訊外洩的這樣子的一個風險當中那過去在我們就是數位部還沒有掛牌之前就是NCC他在2021年的時候"},{"start":5816.318,"end":5818.761,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議"},{"start":5832.737,"end":5849.354,"text":"所以那時候也確實發現說這個中國製的手機確實有侵害到個資的這個狀況所以我覺得這個真的是蠻嚴重的那這個也是因為我們政府應該要替消費者把關要嚴格去把關的一個部分"},{"start":5849.975,"end":5850.555,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5880.095,"end":5898.299,"text":"８立法院第11屆第12會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第11屆第12會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第12會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第12會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第12會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第13會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算８立法院第14會議中�"},{"start":5906.761,"end":5924.232,"text":"所以我覺得說這個科技的進步真的是我們無法想像而且是非常恐怖的一個部分所以像這樣的情況個案不只一個是好幾個那所以這樣子的一個狀況就是說就部長的一個專業你認為這樣發生這個狀況他的部分是出在哪裡問題出在哪裡"},{"start":5925.993,"end":5940.886,"text":"那個報告委員這個我們的所謂的現在就是物聯網這樣的設備越來越普遍那物聯網設備資安的問題確實是一個問題因為不只是這個在早先像我們的那個攝影機被入侵被跳板被攻擊跳板"},{"start":5941.266,"end":5942.887,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":5962.544,"end":5987.034,"text":"所以就是說這個剛剛講就是說像如果是中國我們現在就是像我們公部門就規定這個錄製中國的設備我們不能用不管你是什麼樣的設備因為它只要聯網都有可能治安外洩的風險那民間裡面在使用的時候也要很確認這一點就是它這個設備本身的這個治安那有一點最基本要做的就是這些設備來的時候都有所謂的基本的叫做password就是密碼"},{"start":5987.534,"end":5987.554,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":6009.5,"end":6009.62,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6025.247,"end":6025.467,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6040.929,"end":6069.27,"text":"智慧家電的都有可能是會被入侵的我就是智慧家電因為透過就是遠端控制的這個手機應用程式都有可能將這個個資回傳到中國去所以一般民眾在使用的時候他們可能不是很清楚所以在相關的APP在下載或者授權的時候他們可能就不小心就按了同意然後就不曉得說他的個資可能就是被傳輸回中國了然後就是被監控了"},{"start":6070.151,"end":6095.044,"text":"所以我覺得這是令人蠻擔憂的一個部分所以我們也看到就是說外國國外的政府像英國他也就是預計就是在2025年他也希望就是說要來發布新的隱私指導方針明確規範智能產品的製造商應該遵守的相關資料的一個規範那這個部分我們數位部是不是也應該積極來推動"},{"start":6097.076,"end":6125.839,"text":"我們現在就是針對剛剛講就是我們有針對這個設備主要是因為針對現在我們只能針對政府使用這些設備的一些規範這個我們政府有在訂那現在主要是說這個設備剛剛講不能是錄製但是就是那是那個產品本身的認定但是之後這個剛剛講這些設備本身還是要通過一些治安的檢測這個我想我們會做那至於說這邊所提到的治安標章跟"},{"start":6126.499,"end":6130.942,"text":"委員會定出一個建議的使用方法比如說授權不要開太大他不需要你的住址或不需要你的親友"},{"start":6148.916,"end":6149.857,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資"},{"start":6166.667,"end":6177.534,"text":"只有這個系統本身基本功能就好不要所有的東西都授權給相關的APP然後第三個就是遇到有任何漏洞的時候應該要隨時上網因為我們會公告這個情資所以其實我們是開放給政府機關跟"},{"start":6182.657,"end":6182.677,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":6203.078,"end":6227.167,"text":"是 那授權說小我覺得也是要從源頭去規範就是從那個智能的這個廠商嘛因為他的授權書有可能就是漏漏等啊然後到最後他全部都把它寫在同全部都包在裡面然後到最後才問你同不同意那你根本沒有辦法去區分你哪個要同意哪個不同意所以是不是你應該要有一個層次的一個規範才對"},{"start":6228.667,"end":6250.121,"text":"對它其實是兩塊第一個是我們在使用這個軟體或使用這個產品它會說你同不同意這個是算各自的收集那以後各自會它會做基本再做更深的規範那第二塊是你在你的系統比如說手機它會有一些隱私設定那就是把一些比如說不需要的你的位置在哪裡不需要授權給那些APP就從那邊關掉其實任何軟體也讀不到"},{"start":6254.764,"end":6283.641,"text":"所以我們會先教大家說應該把那些怎麼關的授權縮小如果是我們會依照委員的建議我們就是給一些參考指引這樣子好我覺得這個資安真的是非常的重要所以我們也希望就是說這個數法部應該也要會同NCC就是一起來積極回應就是我們社會大眾對於這個中國製的相關的家電也好手機產品也好這個資安的一個疑慮我們一定要嚴格的把關"},{"start":6284.301,"end":6284.981,"text":"接下來邀請何新淳委員發言"},{"start":6315.751,"end":6319.713,"text":"謝謝數月召委我們請黃部長請黃部長剛剛數月委員在講的這件事我覺得我們數位發展部必須要花很大的心思在喚起國人對於我們這個個人在使用這些資訊網路的安全的意識還有風險的意識我覺得這很重要"},{"start":6345.302,"end":6367.039,"text":"接下來我的質詢就是我們對數位發展部期望很高我也知道你們責任很重尤其你們是打詐國家隊的一個非常重要的部會我就要問最近我們看到公股銀行跟未來打擊金融詐騙九大公股銀行開始率先"},{"start":6370.279,"end":6393.128,"text":"來說我呢以後呢對於呢沒有用實名制的數位平臺我不再下任何廣告這件事你知道嗎對不對所以也不會再邀請網紅代言各項業務那非實名制的他在裡面點出Google Line Facebook YouTube and IG這個社群平臺到目前為止還沒有"},{"start":6394.288,"end":6418.164,"text":"進行所謂的實名制廣告還沒有實名制的審查所以這個詐騙亂象要打詐是國人期待政府很久很久也很深很深希望能夠呢立竿見影嘛對不對所以速發部有責任那除了呢公股銀行九大又開始有其他的民間銀行也跟進甚至呢投信投顧也跟進但是呢"},{"start":6419.485,"end":6444.371,"text":"這樣子的一個行動我們要打炸但是它是不是也會發生所謂的破窗效應數位行銷會不會這個產業會不會受影響這個是值得我們關注的第一個打炸當然是首要要做的工作但是呢在打炸的同時我們如何讓我們的數位行銷產業也能夠健康正常的發展"},{"start":6445.612,"end":6467.832,"text":"這也很重要我舉幾個數字台灣的網紅經濟成長空間很大全球的產值這個報導是媒體預估的全球的產值是6500億那甚至預估2026還會再超越但是反觀台灣台灣的平台跟相關的類型廣告在2022"},{"start":6470.074,"end":6491.308,"text":"很好但是呢到2023呢又稍微有衰退那我們當然在講今年是2024雖然還沒有相關的數據問題是公股銀行跟其他的包括投信投庫跟未來可能跟進的民間企業開始測廣告那所謂的破窗效應會不會讓我們2024的這個數位行銷的一個相關的產業經濟會不會更衰退我覺得部長這個要值得觀察"},{"start":6499.733,"end":6500.033,"text":"委員８發言委員"},{"start":6526.063,"end":6531.466,"text":"還會運用其他的數位平台來下廣告所以對數位行銷這個產業基本上是不影響那意思是說這四個國人最常用的也是國際間最大的四大平台"},{"start":6545.196,"end":6558.295,"text":"這個暫時不下廣告而已我不是說錢有沒有減少啦而是在這四個平台上的所有的數位行銷的不管是網紅也好或是youtuber也好或者是其他的個人的這個"},{"start":6560.471,"end":6584.87,"text":"會不會受影響我是提醒你要注意啦我是提醒你要注意我為什麼會講這件事呢是因為就是因為我們廣告實名資料上路了你們現在也在預告執法規那也送到行政院聽說11月月底呢會核定然後公告這是現在我掌握到了期程我希望能夠如期但是呢我要"},{"start":6585.831,"end":6599.304,"text":"拜託部長你們可能要去好好的想一想未來我們執法規公告了之後第一個四大平台我剛剛講的現在沒有實名制廣告的這四大平台會不會跟進"},{"start":6600.777,"end":6618.13,"text":"委員會否跟進?我們都有跟他溝通他們都有答應說會跟進他們有答應說會跟進那我以前就問過你了他們答應跟進那他們的系統介面有沒有保證會在我們今年年底上路之後他的設備"},{"start":6620.552,"end":6645.89,"text":"它的硬體、它的介面可以建置完善嗎?可以完成嗎?我們跟他們喝過好幾次咖啡他們有正在進行中嗎?正在進行中那我就問你一個問題喔如果按照我們的法規要求數位簽章的憑證包括我們自然人工商憑證政府及法人憑證等等那這些憑證市大平台的系統有嫁接嗎?"},{"start":6647.605,"end":6666.013,"text":"因為他要先嫁接你才能認證啊啊如果系統平台他沒有辦法嫁接這些所謂自然人憑證工商憑證政府或法人的憑證系統他沒辦法嫁接的話那你如何讓他去合格說啊他這個真的是實名制"},{"start":6666.83,"end":6692.112,"text":"對,他那個系統他現在建制我請那個署長回答跟委員報告就是目前是數位清張可以另外的話技術相當的我現在在問你技術性說四大平台喝咖啡你說他說願意配合那願意配合那必須要先做嫁接嘛系統的嫁接嘛那系統嫁接他有沒有承諾你什麼時候可以完成因為我們這一個我們這個法規就要上路啦"},{"start":6693.387,"end":6694.068,"text":"所以沒有全面嗎?"},{"start":6706.022,"end":6725.331,"text":"所以沒有全面,你現在講說一個重點喔平台雖然答應但是他的系統嫁接到底有沒有完成那完成的時程又是如何如果沒有到位那你明年說要上路的實名制等於是做半套喔什麼叫做高風險的開始那所謂的高風險用戶又是誰來認定"},{"start":6734.5,"end":6737.267,"text":"誰?那你有掌握嗎?那你有掌握嗎?"},{"start":6745.01,"end":6763.726,"text":"我們持續在跟Meta主要是Meta的部分因為其他可能相對問題比較小那Meta部分他們已經積極在做系統的調整你會不會給我一篇那個書面報告因為我要知道說你到底掌握到多少我今天要求的是你如果承諾明年1月1號要上路實名制那"},{"start":6766.548,"end":6795.338,"text":"就要做完整的第一個系統的嫁接平台他既然答應了那他就要許諾我們政府許諾國人他要怎麼一步一步做到這第一個不是只有高風險的用戶啊高風險的用戶我剛剛問你誰來認定也是他認定啊也不是政府認定啊那他認定那我們又如何掌握那何時才能夠全面性的實名制"},{"start":6797.694,"end":6813.055,"text":"這個你不能把主導權掌握在系統平台上面那我們自己反而沒有主導權那你如何告訴國人說我打詐是真的我法規都已經立法修法預告公告然後明年一定如期上路"},{"start":6814.724,"end":6841.697,"text":"不能這樣啦那個報告委員這個我們在看他這個技術面我們你技術面他承諾什麼時候可以完全做到FIDO應該是在全面導入中那數位簽章我們數位簽章剛剛講是說因為簽章簽不然我們數位簽章法立法修法通過了結果沒有辦法執行那你怎麼承諾國人說我們可以打詐而且系統平台是跟我們政府站在同一個陣線要打擊詐騙"},{"start":6844.798,"end":6848.42,"text":"技術面是問題喔系統平台要不要跟政府的這個相關的憑證系統嫁接"},{"start":6858.933,"end":6881.075,"text":"這是問題耶我講的是說技術部門是什麼時候導入導入的速度這是問題所以我們會去監督導入的速度什麼時候全面導入這個你要去追阿你要告訴我們阿你要告訴國人喔第二個我還在請你還有另外一個技術的問題請教你我們另外一個行動身份的識別現在"},{"start":6882.699,"end":6895.389,"text":"新的Face ID指紋辨識那我請教你系統平台他如何嫁接國人的Face ID跟指紋辨識系統我們現在有"},{"start":6900.049,"end":6915.22,"text":"如果系統平台沒有跟我們這些系統嫁接那未來我要去開Facebook的帳戶我的身份到底是不是真的我的指紋到底是不是真的我這一張臉到底是不是叫核心存他怎麼辨識他怎麼認證那個"},{"start":6919.876,"end":6939.761,"text":"導入就是說必須要有一個機構所以你有跟我們比如說警政、內政部他們講過指紋也要嫁接嗎?指紋系統要嫁接嗎?Face ID也要嫁接嗎?這個你們有跨部會講過嗎?這一部分還沒有但是我們會去還沒有嘛還沒有嘛"},{"start":6943.473,"end":6962.449,"text":"議長﹗"},{"start":6962.645,"end":6991.347,"text":"我現在就是在提醒你注冊的方式有好幾種那注冊的方式好幾種你要事先知道有哪幾種那有哪幾種那你就要政府要跟系統平台要求而且要他們許諾這個整個實名制的認證的規範必須在我們台灣的法律架構下系統平台一定要守法"},{"start":6992.068,"end":7001.835,"text":"那要他守法我們就必須要提供相關的技術的一個系統的一個嫁接如果沒有嫁接這個界面沒有完整的話那其實怎麼執行實名制嘛因為他就沒有資料庫系統可以來認證嘛我剛剛再講一次喔"},{"start":7016.67,"end":7031.268,"text":"沒有核心存的face資料庫那我用我的face去申請那請問他系統平台社群平台如何認證說我這張face就叫做核心存"},{"start":7032.509,"end":7038.334,"text":"包括有兩個一個是電信商的MOMA ID也可以自然電評證當然也可以那我問你喔那你以後就是要限制我們的國人只能用你講的這幾個方式來申請帳號跟認證喔我用貨不能自主選擇嗎"},{"start":7053.596,"end":7067.592,"text":"有一些已經是比較容易導入這個應該是第一步會落實的可是你沒有跟國人講啊你要公開透明的講清楚嘛哪些是已經可以執行實名制的"},{"start":7068.655,"end":7070.376,"text":"報告委員這是給廣告商他要去認證不是本國人"},{"start":7098.07,"end":7126.463,"text":"那我問你我們現在數位行銷國人如果要上去數位行銷就要去註冊啊那你有沒有database我們全台灣國人裡面有多少人在進行數位行銷這個就是他要去比如說他在Facebook所以你都沒有掌握嘛我現在在告訴你嘛國人他也可能是數位行銷的買家跟賣家啊對不對我又不是只有公司法人才會是這個數位行銷的買家跟賣家"},{"start":7128.805,"end":7141.162,"text":"廣告商這個這個這個這個我們會剛講就這個東西我們在在這個欸你們的你們的你們的那個框架好自私喔現在都已經進步到哪裡去了數位行銷"},{"start":7143.926,"end":7161.385,"text":"不知道進步到哪裡去了,你們現在框架還是在那裡喔?我是在提醒你啦,我們希望真正的實名制投放廣告的實名制一定要如期如實的上路,最重要是愛武豪啦!"},{"start":7161.986,"end":7169.311,"text":"要做得到啦是嘛是嘛好不好所以你們的責任很大啦所以要挽回民眾對你們的信心那數位行銷產業不受影響而且還能夠健康正常的發展成長這個還有我剛剛講的數位平台這些系統的跟政府系統的嫁接如何落實實名制這個是你們的責任好不好好謝謝"},{"start":7192.306,"end":7193.507,"text":"主席好,那我們先請數位部黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":7226.258,"end":7255.303,"text":"委員好部長好部長我先就這個預算的本身來討論一下其實過去這些年這個數位部大家在媒體上都被嘲諷是這個出國旅遊部當然本席沒有反對那個公務員出國考察這是很正常的事情但是每年出國旅費我想看從今年呢今年的話是這個派6人出去那花費了33萬那明年度預計要派13個人花費212萬增加幅度增加5倍多那當然"},{"start":7255.703,"end":7281.438,"text":"人變多旅費增加也是正常的不過如果看到一個人的平均的話今年的話平均一個人的出國旅費是5.5萬但到明年預計是一個人要花費16.4萬增加的幅度我想也是會比較多一點所以想請教一下部長到底明年的出國計畫為什麼要出國那做什麼事情那預計達到什麼成效那以及為什麼一個人的出國旅費會增加這麼多各位請部長說明一下"},{"start":7282.078,"end":7310.225,"text":"報告委員出國經費的確是因為外面在我上任之前外面有一些批評所以我上任之後就把114年要出國做整個通盤檢討那我自己在內部已經刪掉29%的出國經費也就是說114年總出國經費是少於113年大概少了29%那這裡面當然這個包括這幾年其實因為疫情之後整個的那個cost就是包括機票包括什麼最近的確是變得非常貴包括旅館"},{"start":7310.985,"end":7317.715,"text":"所以這個確實會有一些個人金會Individual會增加那這個細部關於素產署這部分我請素產署說明"},{"start":7319.904,"end":7347.92,"text":"跟委員說明一下就是我們其實從total來講我們明年是降低的我們今年是396萬明年是324萬所以我跟你講是總價嘛我想是個人個人以這份為例這個明年派員出國計劃你個人一個人從5萬增加到平均增加到16萬增加三倍啊是那我沒有反對你出國那我又說第一個你要講原因嘛為什麼會增加三倍那第二個出國要做什麼事情你們數位部出國要達到什麼成效這個才是重點啊我沒有反對你出國啊"},{"start":7348.28,"end":7367.264,"text":"是,那像我們要參加RSA,就是自然最大的盛會,那我們跟荷蘭有自然上面的合作,然後跟英國、歐盟有這個電子簽章的那個AI評測的相關的合作,因為它跑的距離就比較遠,是遠的歐美的,如果是東南亞可能就會錢就比較少一點"},{"start":7369.585,"end":7395.585,"text":"好 謝謝說明那我還希望說後續還是要提供給大家本會委員一份說明到底這個出國的這個差別今年跟明年度那最後當然最重要還是說你們出國預計要達到什麼成效嗎因為大家過去各部會都在出國啦但是為什麼唯獨數位部大家會被特別提出來講就是看不到成效所以我們希望你們出國考察合理的但是到底要做什麼事情看了這麼多先進的數位治理的國家然後回來要做什麼事情"},{"start":7395.745,"end":7397.946,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":7414.054,"end":7426.787,"text":"裡面的內容包含說什麼建構我國數位信任環境提升通報詐騙訊息跟查詢強化商務防詐還有健全這個第三方支付等等的每一項都很大每一項都很重要"},{"start":7428.635,"end":7455.618,"text":"但細節基本上在預算書裏面是看不出來了,包含說大家過去我們上次質詢也提到了這個網路詐騙的通報查詢網到底要花多少,到底那時候花多少錢那你現在這個是測試版,那真的上路之後要花多少錢這部分在這份預算裏面其實也沒有很詳列出來,我們希望說部長可以簡單說明一下你這個明年的3億你要怎麼花那因為今年給3億了,明年要花3億,那今年跟明年的差別又是什麼"},{"start":7456.098,"end":7474.866,"text":"那個先對那個網路通報查詢完跟委員做個報告那那一部分明年大概是編五千五千大概不到六千萬啊五千八那主要是做這個剛剛講因為用很多AI技術所以報告AI的技術的導入就是的精進還有就是因為跑AI所以需要算力池所以算力就是報告server"},{"start":7475.026,"end":7475.567,"text":"委員委員委員委員委員"},{"start":7492.824,"end":7516.288,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7516.428,"end":7531.618,"text":"第二開發現在不是已經開發完了嗎?就是你還要精進因為它包括因為我們是用AI去去AI去打打詐騙嘛那AI本身要去很多的精進跟訓練還有它擴大所以這個東西還需要再開發當然第二算令你要增加經費我是說開發多少錢"},{"start":7533.459,"end":7533.839,"text":"委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議委員會議"},{"start":7559.377,"end":7576.466,"text":"以10月來講我們每個月開一次委員會都在檢討這件事情光是10月一個月的財損就已經120億那等於過去這些7、8、9月到10月每個月財損都破百億那按照這個數據來看搞不好今年會破千億耶那最可怕是什麼最可怕的是已經提出來了"},{"start":7576.906,"end":7578.247,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":7598.459,"end":7614.152,"text":"是不夠呢?還是態度不知道怎麼用?部長那個 包委員我認為打詐像是一場戰爭是啊 這戰爭沒錯啊戰爭就是說我們跟詐騙集團在打仗那打仗當然就是說這個我們現在是慢慢的從一些技術我們用AI去跟詐騙集團對打"},{"start":7615.433,"end":7617.875,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":7634.952,"end":7637.793,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":7660.461,"end":7680.513,"text":"就假公眾人物或假名人廣告我們已經看到下降很多因為我們用AI去做掃描去做防詐那有看到效果但是呢這個效果的呈現可能需要一點時間才看得到好部長的確啦因為其實一定要這樣講因為你們是第一線後續的司法怎麼處理後續的金融怎麼處理都是後端的事情但因為民眾接觸到的詐騙資訊息基本上現階段來講"},{"start":7683.114,"end":7685.437,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":7701.283,"end":7718.595,"text":"之前執行局就提過了這個第三方支付的管理的問題當然對數位部來講這是你們的主管業務但是我覺得你們的強制力很低啊我們看這個登錄機制的狀況已經有這個機制出來了但是登錄的狀況怎麼樣真正登錄的機制業者真的只有0.59%啊"},{"start":7720.316,"end":7723.777,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7748.982,"end":7770.628,"text":"第三方支付他本來就違法了他不可能你給他登錄你推出這個能量登錄機制的時候他就很乖的跑來登錄那你的57什麼的他就是我不登錄那你能怎麼辦呢部長他不登錄那怎麼辦那個第一個就是跟委員講你要通過第三方支付的這個能量登錄才能過去跟銀行或是跟金融單位去申請虛擬帳號"},{"start":7772.409,"end":7793.505,"text":"我們這個單位其實我個人是覺得這目前是通過64家我們匯值的幾家現在是64家這64家我們當然還在持續監控這些64家是可以去申請虛擬帳號其他那1萬多家其實因為他沒有通過能量登錄所以他是不能夠去拿到虛擬帳號所以就沒辦法詐騙集團就沒辦法用這些去做詐騙這64家我們是有在管考"},{"start":7794.065,"end":7820.328,"text":"那所以就是說目前我們還會精進我們對這些機構的管考所以我個人希望能夠通過的這第三萬支付的能量我們不需要多但是我們希望每一家都能夠落實資安落實他的那個所謂的這個所謂的反洗錢的能力啊這個是我們最最重視那這個我們有個不是這個來部長我還是這樣講啦他來登錄是好事當然你們可以管考那他不來登錄的他有什麼樣的機制去處理"},{"start":7821.349,"end":7838.61,"text":"他不來登錄他就拿不到金融機構的帳號另外他跟委員報告就是這14000多家是因為登記的時候他可以說他要做結果他都不做但是他如果要做第三方他如果沒有登錄就做第三方他是會有兩年的刑責"},{"start":7840.1,"end":7863.047,"text":"這個是後續你們要推這個吧我現在要接下來談的這個第三方支付的這個洗錢房子的這個草案你約束的是有登錄的還是沒登錄的沒有沒有如果沒有登錄從事這個行業一樣是兩年兩年的有期徒刑啊所以登錄的呢有登對不起就確認一下所以這一萬多家不管他有沒有進到你們這個登錄機制裡面對他只要進行了相關的洗錢的工作"},{"start":7863.467,"end":7891.025,"text":"他會都是適用這部法律嗎?他只要從事第三方支付的營業活動的話他就會被我們這個打炸專法所管﹖第三方那個什麼洗塵防治法所管制所以我們就會去﹖如果他沒有登錄他還從事就是兩年那你這個是9月預告了嗎?那現在已經11月了什麼時候要開始送進來?開始上路?我們已經預﹖就是已經﹖對啊9月預告了啊那什麼時候開始處理這個事情?10月底10月底那個執法都會公布嘛10月底?"},{"start":7892.072,"end":7907.029,"text":"11月底11月底就下禮拜而已喔對可以嗎部長對就照事成我們公布以後就會開始處罰對好部長謝謝謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員那現在休息"},{"start":7919.083,"end":7943.097,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":7946.584,"end":7947.425,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7965.745,"end":7969.346,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":7993.234,"end":8003.984,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8009.429,"end":8011.41,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席委員會"},{"start":8039.267,"end":8053.254,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8069.833,"end":8078.419,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8087.405,"end":8097.89,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8105.923,"end":8112.112,"text":"我知道,因為這個是禮拜五,所以我才知道我現在想到的是一到五的意思。"},{"start":8122.726,"end":8132.253,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8142.759,"end":8147.8,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8168.045,"end":8168.466,"text":"委員會議結束"},{"start":8198.426,"end":8204.35,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":8224.146,"end":8236.676,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8241.488,"end":8254.913,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8270.095,"end":8284.234,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8288.626,"end":8303.241,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8307.103,"end":8322.61,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":8515.242,"end":8520.307,"text":"現在繼續開會接下來邀請蔡奇昌委員發言謝謝主席請速發布黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":8543.985,"end":8559.4,"text":"部長早部長我想早上大概我前面幾個委員也都針對打詐的事情也就教你本席從第一次質詢你開始我就一直在強調在台灣詐騙"},{"start":8563.715,"end":8590.444,"text":"沒有銷聲匿跡之前大概本席對書發布質詢的重中之重就是打詐所以本席今天還是延續著打詐的議題來請教這個113年的5月15號我們為了打詐通過電子簽章法7月也把詐欺犯罪危害防治條例都來通過那"},{"start":8592.303,"end":8615.191,"text":"現在的進度應該是訴發部要針對這個下面的這些執法或者相關的這些辦法規則你們要去訂定整體的配套對吧沒錯那我看了一下時間9月我們就公告10月已經公告完畢了是這樣嗎"},{"start":8616.289,"end":8630.797,"text":"就是我們先公告就是哪一些公司就是網路廣告平台公司要被納管對所以9月公告然後10月底要求他們提出這個文件來申請對我的意思是說立法院通過修法"},{"start":8632.401,"end":8653.663,"text":"到現在為止對於詐騙我們還沒有辦法根據我們通過包括所謂電子現場法實名制等等是因為速發布的相關針對這個法令的配套相關規定還沒有完成11月30會公告執法對那換言之11月30公告完之後就"},{"start":8655.322,"end":8680.701,"text":"沒有其他法規的問題了對不對好那所以我們過去宣告12月30現在等於提早一個月是嗎好這個本席非常的肯定我的意思只是在想說為什麼10月就完成所有的公告然後要再拖兩個月是不是有什麼困難啊所以你們把它提早一個月這個就是本席第一點要講的"},{"start":8681.562,"end":8695.498,"text":"我不希望再拖啦因為這個空窗期實在拖太久我們對外立法院都已經三讀通過立法院是最困難的要把草野的意見都整合把社會各界意見都整合落實在法規裡面"},{"start":8696.539,"end":8725.538,"text":"那最困難的我們都完成了反而我們部裡面這個行政的這些相關的這個執法配套我們沒有辦法快速把它完成這個對社會沒有辦法交代不然我們都信誓旦旦行政院宣稱我們立法院也宣稱我們法令都修了這打詐我們這個祭出雷力風刑的手段結果看起來這幾個月民眾也覺得好像也沒有什麼感覺所以這個要快速"},{"start":8726.759,"end":8744.857,"text":"第二個問題就來了你11月30公告之後我想請問一下這幾個大的平台業者他根據這些法規法令包括你們配套的這些相關的規定他什麼時候開始落實啊"},{"start":8746.146,"end":8762.152,"text":"實名制我們跟這些平台商就是所謂的過去幾個月在這個溝通上就是所謂的喝咖啡都有談他們都答應在明年初會開始落實這個不能講明年初啦因為他明年初不知道幾月"},{"start":8763.932,"end":8791.883,"text":"一月吧那要不要部長你要不要直接告訴這些相關的平台商就是1月1號開始實施或者就是1月30號開始實施或者31號開始實施日期那個有跟他們在民說嗎這個應該要民講這個不可以再讓他們混了那還是一樣喔等立法院修法行政機關相關的配套都做好了然後現在開始哇第三關我們會開始問那平台業者什麼時候要做啊"},{"start":8794.534,"end":8820.849,"text":"就是1月1號開始導入實名制那當然就是說我們先從剛剛其實在上個委員有講我們先從所謂的高風險就是說公眾沒有關係沒有關係其實大家還是在乎嘛譬如說你最大宗那幾個嘛你看你Meta站的詐騙我上一次已經把圖都畫給大家看了嘛它的比例多高部長那個八九成對嘛上一次我已經公告過了嘛"},{"start":8821.309,"end":8842.251,"text":"所以說換言之我們在打詐只要鎖定幾個大的對象就搞什麼都差不多南瓜在裡面了嘛你說剩下的部分當然要做但是你先讓大家有感從那個做幾個大咖的下去就已經九成了那還是老問題那到底我們現在你公告的是幾月幾號"},{"start":8843.854,"end":8860.252,"text":"那個11月底公告嘛然後1月1號開始這個我知道他開始實施啦那開始實施呢業者一定跟你說要有一個緩衝期啊我要改程式啊我要做什麼一大堆的啊然後就開始又跟你講了不知道民國幾年幾月"},{"start":8862.011,"end":8889.009,"text":"才要開始落實啊一月一號就會 剛剛講一月先從所謂高風險的客戶廣告客戶先落實所以高風險的廣告客戶是一月一號開始在那裡做這個廣告就要實名了是不是包括一些大的廣告這個我覺得這個應該要講清楚一月一號所以換言之一月一號沒有做你就不准他廣告對不對高風險就是說他的廣告量大的或是像所謂的公眾人物這種對對不是"},{"start":8892.342,"end":8920.196,"text":"廣告量大的定義是什麼就是說他的這個會吸引很多流量的這些廣告的我的意思是這樣啦喔Meta實施實名制沒有實名制來的他都不可以上架這個在1月1號可不可以做得到剛剛講就是不是一開始啦我們聽到的是不是全面但至少對高風險部長這個我還是要再一次的講啦"},{"start":8921.904,"end":8951.244,"text":"我跟部長講齁你如果沒有公告一個很明確的時間我就給你拖啦那你公告的時間你說我要分階段實施沒有關係你就告訴我幾月幾號要實施什麼的確會分階段 這個請署長來來來 署長他持續在跟我們做技術上的一些討論那他一直在修正他的系統所以這段時間他其實很努力所以我們本來想說高風險的話讓他先上沒關係 署長我還是要講那句話不可以這樣子啦不可以他叫很努力嘛"},{"start":8952.845,"end":8976.278,"text":"今天就是台灣跟韓國12強的比賽那個台北市政府說那個大巨蛋會漏水台北市政府都告訴遠雄公司啊幾月幾號如果你的漏水沒有修好我就按日處罰那現在呢修好了沒還是還沒修好啊所以台北市政府就開始罰了我跟你講啦你講幾月幾號他都不一定可以做得到啦"},{"start":8977.038,"end":8977.618,"text":"我們11月底我們就把"},{"start":9002.507,"end":9017.16,"text":"11月底一併公告啦好不好你們剛剛講我沒有意見你們要去怎麼做譬如說好我針對幾個大的平台業者我告訴你們你們就是幾月幾號開始凡沒有實名制的都不可以給我上架"},{"start":9017.981,"end":9025.689,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":9041.084,"end":9056.904,"text":"例如說你廣告量大的那就怎麼樣可是我還是不贊成廣告量大啦因為詐騙的業者他那有廣告量一定大所以你都限制那些合法的業者要實名制那真的詐騙那一群人因為他廣告量一定不會很大嘛"},{"start":9057.705,"end":9081.614,"text":"那你還是讓詐騙的繼續詐騙我們先從高風險說高風險就是說公眾人物他很有名然後他的廣告這些人一定要使名字對啦但是這個齁不是詐騙的本意嘛來我秀一張圖給你看啦你看齁你看齁這個齁用那個張國偉的照片嘛對不對阿這就是高風險對"},{"start":9084.612,"end":9099.043,"text":"問題是問題是廣告的人叫DSG啊廣告的人不是張國偉你跟張國偉說你來就要實名制張國偉的他的受害者他不是去他去買的啊"},{"start":9100.328,"end":9121.777,"text":"這一這個是什麼時候這個是現在的狀況啦我隨便在網路上找這太多了我隨便截取一張這是現在現在是什麼公告會公告法令會修法了公告會公告完了就等著你什麼時候這個實施嘛那此刻你有法規你看喔勘剝者出資者的資訊在這裡"},{"start":9123.479,"end":9140.212,"text":"他用了張國偉的照片這一個人的廣告量大嗎?這個人的廣告量一定不大 對不對那你限制廣告量大你限制張國偉說張國偉你如果要廣告你的實名是因為你是知名人物不好意思我沒有廣告我就是受害者嘛"},{"start":9140.7,"end":9159.6,"text":"那個報告委員兩個禮拜前Meta才公布一個技術他以後會偵測照片跟名字所以有這個技術以後這樣這種廣告就不會再出現就是說照片是張國偉啊名字不是張國偉是啦那我的意思是說我們法規你那個是你現在要做這個偵測"},{"start":9161.081,"end":9174.548,"text":"你很簡單嘛你現在做這個偵測是就算你還沒有開始公告實施你也可以去偵測嘛但是我的公告實施完之後我就是要告訴你說這DSG是誰你要實名制嘛為什麼"},{"start":9175.407,"end":9196.196,"text":"我接下來就要抓這個人了我還跟你在那邊亂七八糟我就直接抓這個嘛你現在是還不能抓他因為沒有實名制所以你根本不知道他是誰啊他今天叫DSG明天叫ABC啊你現在懂我的意思嗎所以我的意思就是說你要趕快落實平台業者最好的方式就是你跟Meta說"},{"start":9197.694,"end":9211.497,"text":"一月幾號開始如果你還給我弄這個DSG不知道是誰的我就直接罰你250萬到1億嘛這個就是我要求的啊這個不可以再拖啦這個拖了就沒意思了那個已經"},{"start":9212.765,"end":9236.565,"text":"三讀拼到這樣過去再來 立法院你們速發部也提早了本來12月30現在提早到11月30對不對結果接下來換他拖一定拖的啦我跟你說你不給他時間他就拖啦我就跟你講一個時間我現在就告訴你我現在才11月初我就告訴你Meta公司從什麼時候開始如果你沒有做到我就按日處罰你"},{"start":9238.53,"end":9265.267,"text":"我不相信一天發一頁,我看他多久發了啊啊你就又叫批一批啊部長真的要加油你看齁我都看到報紙那個趙峰啊他不是速發布捏你速發布齁發臉給你啊你也是光喝咖啡而已人家趙峰是直接欸直接說他不下廣告捏還號召金融同業大家不要在Meta上面下廣告"},{"start":9266.372,"end":9284.443,"text":"這叫做保守啦部長我在這個台上已經問過你很多次也跟你質詢過很多次了我跟你講過說那個咖啡齁你開始喝咖啡我說咖啡接下來可不可以泡男喝一點他再繼續不搞你就改毒藥怎麼喝咖啡哪有那麼好"},{"start":9285.874,"end":9303.19,"text":"民眾被詐騙的人部長辛辛苦苦一輩子的血汗錢就這樣被詐騙這個事件不是少數啊如果說他一輩子得到招小偷一輩子可能一次啦他也沒看過小偷長什麼樣子"},{"start":9304.631,"end":9325.368,"text":"可是他在生活裡面面對詐騙他是無時無刻在處理這個問題所以本席為什麼急我們沒有辦法再拖啦這種東西每天人民都在面對這種苦難所以我們行政機關、立法機關我們要苦民所苦他想要老百姓現在他在擔憂什麼問題所以本席為什麼會那麼積極"},{"start":9330.183,"end":9355.601,"text":"你們這樣不配合我就不相信治不了你人民的苦難面對這些財團我們難道沒有什麼更積極更有作為的做法嗎部長我真的告訴你一句你只要把打詐做好你這抒發部就永留青史啦你這個部長就永留青史我痛恨詐騙啦我沒有質疑你不痛恨啦只是說方法跟手段啦"},{"start":9356.531,"end":9385.735,"text":"我說兆豐人家都會想到說不然我也盡一點力氣我不給他廣告這個這就是手勞嘛這就是風範不是只有我我也相信你很討厭這個詐騙你恨之入所以兆豐這個很好的意思我們公司協力一起來把這個問題解決掉是啦就是你要有方法我的意思就是說這個是速發部的主線兆豐啦或者其他民間企業這個都是輔助啦"},{"start":9386.749,"end":9386.929,"text":"謝謝蔡齊昌委員"},{"start":9417.608,"end":9439.479,"text":"接下來邀請魯明哲召委質詢。好,謝謝主席。有請我們黃部長。有請黃部長。各位部長,委員好。"},{"start":9441.448,"end":9441.468,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":9471.708,"end":9498.525,"text":"那你扣掉本部的33多億大概61%的預算是放在兩個署我們治安署跟我們數位產業署裡面那在這樣的一個編排之下我看到了這個我們治安署他今天寫的報告三頁三個F頁面摩拳擦掌"},{"start":9500.029,"end":9515.214,"text":"大呼小叫叫我們快一點我都準備好內容了三頁三面除了把預算付表付在後面之外好像沒什麼好說的啦或是說我們想想也沒什麼需要讓委員知道的然後45.4億的我們產業數位產業署6頁欸這個都經過你覺得這樣的準備對委員來講夠詳細嗎部長你你整體說一下"},{"start":9529.088,"end":9547.64,"text":"三月拿7.9億然後45.4億他寫了六月你覺得你看過這個報告你都沒有說這報告不應該這麼不詳細嗎那個預算書已經送立法院再請那個主席處長出名"},{"start":9549.137,"end":9573.953,"text":"報告委員我們行政院在8月31號以前已經把中央政府總預算包括數發布的預算還有兩署的預算全部都送到各委員辦公室送到立法院我說你在說明你這成本的預算說明用人話你們的專業話想要去說明明年度為什麼要委員支持你們的預算就丟一本預算給我們就結束了嗎"},{"start":9575.974,"end":9602.445,"text":"今天為什麼要排這個預算報告報告說什麼預算丟給你還報告什麼不要排了嘛也不要審了嘛我就覺得你們用3月6月報告去總共兩個署50級的預算我建議部長你可以去思考一下這一個形式上的一個尊重的一個態度會有問題好那我們再來看這個我們產業署啊產業署的副署長你先上來一下支援一下部長"},{"start":9603.939,"end":9619.589,"text":"我可以看到預算是越來越豐滿但是我們比較關心企業跟民眾有沒有感我們數位部算是各部會一個比較新成立的部會也代表了民眾在新的時代有很多的一個期待"},{"start":9620.63,"end":9649.087,"text":"到底我們企業跟民眾有沒有感呢?我們看到今年度成長幅度最高的我們整個數位部本部加兩署成長了15.6億其中將近10億都在產業發展署數位產業署數位產業署裡面你們自己大概多了10億但我們來看一下你們人數多了13人兵力就位成長兵力成長"},{"start":9650.488,"end":9662.959,"text":"預算成長到底準備幹事了吧自己為為我們這個國民要拼一下嘛但我們來看一下呢在比較預算上面112年我從25.8億我們的產業署到114年45.4億你的整體預算在這個署內成長75%成長43%算是算是成長的不少喔"},{"start":9676.61,"end":9689.016,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算提案於12月3日中央政府總預算提案於12月3日中央政府總預算提案於12月3日中央政府總預算提案於12月3日"},{"start":9696.039,"end":9705.841,"text":"學術單位、企業單位、顧問公司在做到底在做什麼東西你們現在委辦費在持續增高委辦費在112年才12.2億現在委辦費高達31.4億成長150.157億啊你這樣的預算增加委辦費副組長你說一下什麼原因啊那你增加13個人是要做什麼的"},{"start":9721.954,"end":9735.834,"text":"跟委員報告 送公文是不是 131隊只要用在打詐的一些推動 13人是增加在打詐的工作上面 增加在打詐嘛 那委外有打詐嗎"},{"start":9737.175,"end":9765.413,"text":"委外的部份不是打詐的部份最主要有三塊第一塊是我們的AI的推動的部份現在生成那次AI對大家產業未來的發展很重要那第二個是我們的數位的公共建設部份包括我們要建立一些篆力池讓置物業可以來使用那第三個部份就是我們會給地方政府明年開始會有一個公建給地方政府來申請就是我們那個城市建模的部份就類似我們過去的數位成長的計畫"},{"start":9766.213,"end":9787.338,"text":"除了看到你的署內預算大幅增加啦因為今天時間有限,細部我們在審預算都在討論可是大家都關心打詐的部分嘛那打詐的部分已經談了很多次了數據就不要再講了被詐騙的金額、詐騙的次數可能是今年比較有接入吧所以大幅的一個成長"},{"start":9788.158,"end":9791.54,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":9804.881,"end":9831.532,"text":"我感覺數位部你開始發功了但是人民覺得績效沒有很好啊剛剛很多委員都說啊那我就請問一下部長你到底覺得在市詐賭詐打詐上面越打越詐的原因在數位部的原因是什麼你可以跟我講一下報告委員那個我想剛剛有講過這幾個問題一個就是說我們第一個打詐是詐騙的源頭一直在變嘛那現在我們當然就是用AI技術要去掃這個詐騙那"},{"start":9833.633,"end":9854.913,"text":"過去我上任之後我們也發展了一些技術目前我們看到的是尤其在網路廣告平台上面的詐騙確實有減少但是這個減少在反映到金額的部分需要一點時間因為今天看到的金額是可能因為詐騙集團是養套殺他們可能都是在3到6個月以前就開始接觸這些被騙的人"},{"start":9855.674,"end":9880.111,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9880.111,"end":9902.159,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":9902.159,"end":9918.268,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9919.333,"end":9944.074,"text":"這也是產業署嘛產業署你們在做的網路詐騙通報查詢軟體啊那大家也說了很多次嘛那你們現在還在測試嘛在測試在修正那我們也要負責任幫你去測試一下所以我們請辦公室的秘書好好在最近幫你做一個測試啊我們希望你正式版上任的時候我們現在談到的問題不能再有你剛剛特別講相信"},{"start":9944.734,"end":9959.805,"text":"在各部會的團隊打詐國家隊努力之下能夠減少你講的是重點啊就你一個人努力沒有用啊你做一個很好用的softwareAPP讓民眾方便檢舉但是後端不處理沒有用喔先講沒有用喔"},{"start":9960.586,"end":9986.627,"text":"那我跟你講現在發生了三個樣態我們自己辦公室適到的第一個呢是判定延誤啊 不會不理睬我就講第一個啦你優化軟體如果你沒有優化打架國家對所設的單位部會他們的效能效率重不重視這件事的話這件事情是事倍功半所以我們看到了到現在還掛在網上你們11月6號這第一個"},{"start":9991.351,"end":9997.238,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":10003.437,"end":10031.523,"text":"衛福部確認中這是豬隊友嗎還是他比較大尾沒有啊到底是詐騙嗎你知道網路詐騙一天攻擊次數非常多我不要說現在知道你今天給我今天24小時內你給我一個明確的答案就算慢了嘛在數位的時代你還有7天6天7天你們自己去看我待會今年只給你們到現在還在確認中代表有些不會"},{"start":10032.463,"end":10041.767,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：完整會議二、審查11月5日中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：完整會議"},{"start":10063.038,"end":10064.12,"text":"第三類是你真的詐騙"},{"start":10077.011,"end":10103.158,"text":"我要拜託你好今天真的是給你們這中間的有一些的情況尤其部會中間的效率五六天七八天雖然沒有判定完成那最後我也拜託一下啦因為我也不知道你們講了這麼多咖啡跟這些社群軟體也說了這麼多我不知道我們的召委應該常常有遇到這個問題啦那給我們藍勾勾不是藍勾勾沒有什麼好教啊就是什麼查證啊確認再三確認FB好不容易"},{"start":10106.019,"end":10106.339,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":10133.046,"end":10133.066,"text":"議員８打詐"},{"start":10158.152,"end":10177.873,"text":"這個我們的這個執法通過在11月底我們會通過明年1月開始會實施這個就不會所以自然就不會出現也不用檢舉了實名制就實名制如果那個meta若是實名制的話哇你真的很有信心喔對這個我們我也希望這真的很麻煩對那個如果他們不配合我們剛剛講就會開始罰錢對"},{"start":10179.895,"end":10181.816,"text":"接下來邀請徐富奎委員發言"},{"start":10212.781,"end":10213.365,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們黃部長"},{"start":10220.41,"end":10245.389,"text":"委員好部長好部長左院長在我們前天11號有召開治安會報針對這個我們這個電信的電商的平台的部分有做一些的指示嗎但是很諷刺的是我們從11月11號的打詐一標板發現光是網路購物的詐騙案件就高達110件損失金額有490萬那我想隨著這個電商平台"},{"start":10250.333,"end":10263.763,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":10264.438,"end":10264.458,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":10280.782,"end":10296.417,"text":"他們這個詔兵集團就馬上換了一個新的手法了那所以針對這樣子一個我們一個輔導的成效如何輔導業者做一個事前防護事中應變還有事後改善的一個策略博定能不能說明一下"},{"start":10297.223,"end":10315.133,"text":"電商的確是一個問題,電商的資安過去是一個漏洞所以我們在電商裡面的有一些集合跟一些甚至於我們將來要電商我們去集合的時候要做紅隊演練對他的這個資安要做提升這個是一個最主要的一個我覺得是目前最大的問題"},{"start":10316.053,"end":10330.385,"text":"那這個我想這個做法我請那個署長再補充一下對部長我想除了要求他們要配合之外我們真的有沒有什麼監督的機制到底有沒有做沒做我們有沒有怎麼樣一個監督機制來檢視一下"},{"start":10333.241,"end":10357.16,"text":"主要是兩個一個是行政檢查就是我們應該是所有大型電商都檢查了就看他們自然有沒有做好各自有沒有外有沒有保護有沒有做好這個那第二個是我們還會用防炸雷達去集合他看他有沒有一些違法的一些外賣界違法的一些產品或者一些詐騙的一些商品這個我們都會用外部的低量拒接當然剛剛陳吳魯委員講他們關鍵字都會變嘛所以我們會一直在更新我們的關鍵字"},{"start":10361.991,"end":10362.111,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":10379.394,"end":10379.414,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":10394.411,"end":10409.065,"text":"委員因為本市比較擔心因為這個有牽扯到數位的速發部之外還有我們經濟部還有交通部好幾個部會啦齁我跟他講這個跌穿交之後齁啊到底什麼人要付錢什麼人要處理什麼部分有沒有一個怎樣的一個完整的一個機制"},{"start":10412.804,"end":10431.248,"text":"委員講的是就是我們這個跨部會的一個協調的機制到底有沒有各就各位我們有一個分工的原則我們現在是有通常會在要召集各部會來做一些網際網路的分工的原則大家都在探討"},{"start":10432.929,"end":10448.937,"text":"對有這個原則我知道但是到底會不會就這樣的原則去落實去處理我們擔心是有這個架構但是到時候各推各的責任目前就我們的部分我們執行的還可以就在電商的部分其實現在已經沒有列入165的高風險的賣場我們本部俠管的"},{"start":10452.717,"end":10477.876,"text":"所以是不是未來我們針對這樣一個跨部位的機制我們要怎麼樣加速一個資安通報的一個流程有效處理這個駭客入侵的案子數位部有信心嗎那個資安通報我們也有設的這樣一個機制所以本來就是在接受各方面通報這個是的確有這樣的機制都存在所以任何資安的事件我們都會很快的收到通報然後通知大家這樣"},{"start":10478.516,"end":10507.51,"text":"部長這個剛剛我們很多委員有提到說我們出獄的速度真的有比較慢一點這個真的要再檢討一下內部檢討一下另外第一個針對我們2025即將邁入這個超高齡的一個社會那我們面臨所謂一個老人照顧的一個需求還有少子化帶來一個勞動力一個短缺的一個挑戰那我想請教部長針對這個我們現在5G專品的一個運用在所謂的醫療機器人來巡視病房"},{"start":10508.01,"end":10535.003,"text":"或是進行一個視訊診療的部分部長這部分是不是有跟衛福部有做一個相關的一個合作的一個機制這個我們有一些AI的補助計畫那這個計畫申請的公司其實也有跨剛剛講江惠湖這一邊我是不是請署長做個說明我們舉兩個案例第一個是我們有一個安妮婆婆的她就照顧老人需要讓外傭去練習怎麼去翻身嘛這安妮婆婆的一個另外的話"},{"start":10536.083,"end":10563.754,"text":"我們還有其他的包括偵測那種失智症老人會不會他的整個動作會被打下一動作會被打人這樣子預先讓讓照顧員可以知道類似這樣的案例我們還有還蠻多的對我想部長這個是很好的一個這個合作的一個機制那尤其現在醫護的人力也短缺那我們這個針對這個長照的需求也明顯的增加應該是在協助我們衛福部跟醫療院所的強化這個方面"},{"start":10563.854,"end":10589.541,"text":"我們技術上就是用生成式AI跟這些部位來產生更好的服務這個有在進行對另外我們很多的農民朋友他們也擔心這個缺工的問題那所以目前工研院有透過5G跟AI辨識系統有一個開發一個自動巡檢的一個設備這個可以做到一些人力的一個減少的一個需求那這部分是不是輸貨部有沒有相關的一個輔導的機制"},{"start":10591.382,"end":10615.296,"text":"對這個就是利用這個剛剛講的自動巡檢用這個影像辨識AI判斷這個也是一個在農業上的巡就是說這種無人機啊這些去做巡檢這個是也是一個趨勢那我們也在技術上對那個可以擴散這個我們已經有計劃我們從其實從黑木耳開始香菇、蘭花等等我們會一直持續擴散到不同的這個作物是相同的方法"},{"start":10616.036,"end":10616.056,"text":"委員會議長"},{"start":10630.993,"end":10657.823,"text":"請部長的協助向屏東我們這個尤其偏鄉一些比較原鄉的地區針對這些老人家也好能夠加強一些資訊教育尤其這些防詐的一些資訊那我想部長這個我們是不是有辦法能夠多辦一些的這樣類似一個展覽或是一個怎麼樣的一個形式的活動讓這個相關的一些5G的技術能夠融入百姓的生活裡面"},{"start":10658.163,"end":10673.41,"text":"讓大家能夠運用這樣一個技術然後享受一個智慧科技的一個便利性有沒有做這樣一個計畫我們打算就是把一些故事做成一些這個說明或是短影然後再到處宣傳大家怎麼去用這些技術"},{"start":10674.53,"end":10692.361,"text":"委員長我本期上次有提醒過就是我們現在因為我們都有每個村裡都有關懷據點嘛齁啊其實透過這樣關懷據點可以看這些影片然後去學習一些東西然後以增加一些觀念啊這個是很好的一個措施啊對我想能夠再強化一下這部分"},{"start":10693.181,"end":10715.301,"text":"最後一個我想針對臺灣市場面臨這個中國跨境電商淘寶的一個侵害很嚴重那尤其這個最近發現了一個在捷運公司的一個廣告不時廣告那這部分部長我們有做什麼樣一個處理這個已經下架了所以後續我們有在追蹤嗎我們會持續追蹤那這個我們有持續在監控的"},{"start":10718.769,"end":10719.89,"text":"接下來邀請廖新祥委員發言"},{"start":10756.561,"end":10759.122,"text":"請黃部長今天要跟您請教這個國家數位任性的問題那相關的如果說有關單位一起陪同沒關係在今年7月的時候這個全球的這個"},{"start":10779.77,"end":10780.57,"text":"請問一下我們速發部我們有沒有思考過畢竟"},{"start":10807.542,"end":10830.858,"text":"這國際上沒有永遠的朋友也沒有永遠的敵人那在考慮在考慮數位任性這件事情上面其實全球所有的無論是公部門或私部門對於微軟的依賴都是非常的深那如果有一天微軟停止了提供我們台灣中華民國的軟體的服務那我們國家會發生什麼事情你們有沒有做過相關的評估"},{"start":10833.002,"end":10860.772,"text":"報告委員那個目前當然我們系統有兩種一種是微軟一種是Ninux就是open source的對Ninux對所以就是說基本上我想就是在很多的服務上就是像backend server的雲端就不見得是微軟我們有用到很多的雲端的服務所以就是說我們當然微軟是我們現在最主要的那個在像在前端的desktop來一些應用可是就是說第一個我覺得這個微軟會"},{"start":10862.192,"end":10874.74,"text":"停止服務這個事情大概是一個很小的Property不過就算這樣子我們後段的一些Backup的一些這個系統就分成兩個部分啦第一個是第一個第一時間他可能會對我們國家發生了多大的危害"},{"start":10875.643,"end":10878.805,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":10902.677,"end":10926.656,"text":"除了這個金融系統一定還有各行部包括我們所有的政府機關的跨部會的一些公文系統電腦等等的全部都是用微軟嗎沒有我們現在有一些這個用open source啦像openoffice就不見得會microsoft的office所以的確那個有很多軟體我們是盡量的走open source走public code這樣去做那這樣就是因為讓我們比較能夠掌控"},{"start":10927.596,"end":10950.137,"text":"所以沒關係那我問部長那部長的意思應該是我們可能我們的數位部沒有做過相關的評估啦應該是沒有所以說你們可能沒有辦法跟我說他會對我們造成多大的一個衝擊那這件事情我希望我們這個數發部能夠重視因為未來世界會怎麼樣我們不知道因為包括美中的一個衝突等等的"},{"start":10950.757,"end":10951.578,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資"},{"start":10967.992,"end":10969.853,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":10988.487,"end":11008.632,"text":"那對於我們的國家無論是政府部門或民間部門的衝擊會有劇烈的程度可以嗎評估好我們就是再請我們的部門做評估不過我還是講就是說我們走向open source也是我們的一個effort是這絕對要走了所以我也是第二個部分就是請教我們部長第一個部長你要多少時間你先講"},{"start":11009.468,"end":11024.835,"text":"那個評估的話那個這個一個月我們評估一下其實這份報告也不只是給立法院應該是要給我們所有有關的部門讓他們知道未來如果發生這件事情的時候他們會怎麼樣"},{"start":11025.976,"end":11044.486,"text":"他們可能不知道為什麼會這樣嘛對不對那包括未來剛剛那以及下一個部分我們的Linux我們可能需要用Linux來重建我們的國家的系統包括國家優先那可能民間其次你們有沒有評估過需要多久的時間能夠用Linux至少大體上去取代微軟的系統"},{"start":11045.575,"end":11065.152,"text":"就是這個沒有評估過但是我們可以再但是就是像委員講就是我們逐步的減少對proprietary的那個系統的依賴所以當然就是我們逐步在在在就是包括像AI我們要講主權的AI就是我們要有自己的model像這種事情我們都在做"},{"start":11065.552,"end":11090.013,"text":"是原因就是要減少對外面的依賴但這個當然是一個比較long term的effort不過我們的確有擔心這樣的問題所以的確有在各位覺得他是一個架構的問題我們不可能在第一時間問題發生的時候馬上就要求你在今天幾個小時內去解決問題但是我們應該有一個優先順序因為我們的國內的資訊軟體人才的量能其實是有限的專業人才量能有限我們應該要去盤點"},{"start":11091.634,"end":11091.754,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11108.254,"end":11124.192,"text":"全部都支援到嘛對不對好不好我希望我們出發部當然打仗是非常重要但是我覺得這個我們出發部應該有更高的一個責任跟你們專業的部分在這上面第一個部分就是剛剛講的評估報告第二個就是我們重建的一個系統"},{"start":11125.394,"end":11145.596,"text":"這兩件事情希望我們這個書發部未來能夠提供那第二個剛剛部長有講到我們這個國內的一個AI的一個系統的一個可能研發嘛等等的我們書發部有在補助國內的機關團體或是民間機構或是投資相關機構去做AI的一個研發嗎"},{"start":11146.516,"end":11160.817,"text":"我們有提供像AI算力池我們有個計畫就是在建算力池讓民間的公司能夠來用我們的算力池因為AI的設備跟服務其實是蠻貴的那所以這個是我們在鼓勵local在應用面"},{"start":11161.578,"end":11165.22,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":11187.975,"end":11188.135,"text":"二、審查"},{"start":11205.475,"end":11208.437,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資"},{"start":11221.716,"end":11221.736,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":11239.739,"end":11243.441,"text":"拜託政府應該相對應比過往更多的一些預算"},{"start":11268.677,"end":11296.152,"text":"觀眾謙虛"},{"start":11297.823,"end":11321.713,"text":"好謝謝廖先祥委員接下來邀請邱若驊委員發言謝謝主席主席請速發布黃部長還有資安署的謝署長請黃部長還有謝署長好委員好"},{"start":11326.098,"end":11351.553,"text":"部長好同樣的我們延續剛剛的AI議題有幾個問題要請教部長還有署長來我們來做探討那我們今天要討論的是ChatGPTChatGPT在2022年12月的時候推出那隨後在全球就掀起了浪潮那根據ChatGPT他們研發公司OpenAI的資料顯示每週經常的使用戶數有2億人那由此可見"},{"start":11352.293,"end":11381.153,"text":"生成式的AI已經成為了全球的主流趨勢還有普及化本席就生成式AI所造成的潛在風險和未來發展的可能性請教部長還有署長2022年12月之後公部門所有的自動設備還有所屬的場域全面禁用抖音還有TikTok公部門所配有的手機平板還有電腦都不能下載這兩款APP請問署長還有我們部長全面禁用抖音和TikTok的原因是什麼在當時"},{"start":11382.312,"end":11383.412,"text":"議員提到的是各自的疑慮嗎?"},{"start":11405.441,"end":11408.943,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議二、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議"},{"start":11431.135,"end":11442.561,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":11460.911,"end":11477.428,"text":"外泄那在2023年的5月高達高峰那尤其有更重要的是那個報告還有指出洩漏區域以亞太地區作為嚴重居宇榜首那其次是中東非洲還有歐洲那面對這個問題去年行政院他們也在8月的時候"},{"start":11477.768,"end":11497.07,"text":"通過行政院所屬的機關機構使用深層式AI參考指引那經管會也在今年6月20號通過金融業運用人工智慧AI指引代表深層式AI確實有資安盈利部長和署長你們知道這指引的內容嗎?這個指引都知道那其中最重要的幾點可不可以就是"},{"start":11500.009,"end":11503.791,"text":"公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳"},{"start":11524.403,"end":11540.151,"text":"另外這個指引有要求說我們要選用比較就是可信賴的服務但是就治安來說就治安來說其實只要是外部的不能做設定跟防護的你應該在使用上都是參考那也同步回應剛剛委員問到的其實我們會希望公務機關除了你"},{"start":11546.194,"end":11546.214,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":11569.083,"end":11571.865,"text":"速發部是不是發展我們AI的科技主要的主管機構之一?我們是好幾個部一起合作要做AI的發展跟管理"},{"start":11585.627,"end":11608.343,"text":"那其中建立AI生態系算力還有資料收集還有能力的培育是在我們速發部沒有錯吧對有一部分工作是在我們這裡那既然速發部和資安署是我國公部門資訊安全相關業務的重要的機構那請問署長還有部長那關於生成式AI服務平台像是CHAT、GPT還有等相關應用的程式是否有危害國家之痛的疑慮呢"},{"start":11609.364,"end":11628.161,"text":"我們危害國家通安全的這個定義是針對中國製的設備的產品其實沒有若以這個那等於這邊要提到目前有很多國際知名的企業他們因為為了怕防止洩密他們他們禁用checkGPT那checkGPT在我們台灣目前呢"},{"start":11628.641,"end":11629.382,"text":"三星還有美國的蘋果呢"},{"start":11646.192,"end":11657.978,"text":"美國的蘋果、Amazon、Verizon、美國銀行還有花旗集團他們都禁止在他們內部公司使用那在我們台灣我們公部門是不是應該要來禁止使用ChatGPT?"},{"start":11659.068,"end":11675.994,"text":"我剛講就說這個東西是由各個單位自己去決定那目前我們行政院他們推出的指引部長署長認為力度夠嗎現在就說不能把我們再請那個署長說明我們事實上指引裡面對這個有一些要求再說明一下"},{"start":11677.125,"end":11700.885,"text":"報告委員其實不管他的規定他現在的規定是只要是公務跟機密你都不應該傳上去但是我們會覺得說除了CHAT GPT之外所有要跟你要的資料因為現在所有的軟體跟所有的系統都試著跟你要資料不是剛剛提到TikTok跟抖音部長有提到是中國嗎那現在CHAT GPT在美國像Apple跟Samsung Verizon他們也都是禁用的那這樣是不是有雙重標準"},{"start":11702.969,"end":11715.903,"text":"報告委員其實我們的指引跟相關的規範是你不應該把公務的東西傳給你不認識的人包含確GPT他後面的分析不知道是誰我們數位數位部有沒有使用過確GPT數位部有沒有"},{"start":11719.077,"end":11740.596,"text":"對阿,內部的人工或是你們正在建立一個AI生態系你們應該有去了解TPTN目前提供的服務的內容大概是什麼樣嗎有去研究生成式AI會用到好幾個工具包括Google都有,我們會了解他們的功能是什麼不過我們"},{"start":11741.076,"end":11767.042,"text":"我想他收集的數據不只是在Google吧是全球各網站對不對就是我剛才有幾個重要的就是我剛才講這大型的那是不是如果是這樣子的話那再發布在我們台灣新聞的話那其他在海外的用戶他也可以知道目前我們的國情像是軍力還有國防相關的我們沒有把我們這些資料拿去我不是說我是說CHAT GPT上面他只要透過在這個在這個這個OpenAI的服務上面他也可以知道我們目前現在台灣的情況啊"},{"start":11767.978,"end":11768.478,"text":"議員８立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會議"},{"start":11790.285,"end":11811.507,"text":"目前我質疑裡面就是這樣說就是我們不能把公務的資料放到沒有人會把公務的資料放在CHAT GPT上面可是他如果說要做如果他拿不到我們資料他裡面的LRM就不會有我們的資料所以就不用擔心說別人會看到我們的資料因為他根本就是我們的資料不會給他用所以他根本看不到"},{"start":11811.527,"end":11813.007,"text":"請部長和署長我回去之後再演繹再給本席書面報告謝謝主席謝謝邱若驊委員"},{"start":11843.922,"end":11864.658,"text":"接下來邀請陳雪生委員發言。好,謝謝章偉。是不是請速發部黃部長。好,請黃部長。欸?"},{"start":11875.184,"end":11891.325,"text":"這次11月6日、7日我們去馬祖做交通委員會考察,部長沒有去,派了市長去了。我想請問部長,速發部跟NCC跟中華電信你們三者之間什麼關係?"},{"start":11896.715,"end":11912.451,"text":"我們是輔導跟獎勵,監理還是NCC,中華電信在維運上是NCC在監管預算是你們編嗎?為什麼很多中華電信或NCC都要向你們要錢?你們只管政策嗎?"},{"start":11915.353,"end":11928.969,"text":"獎勵獎勵因為我感覺很像NCC很像是多餘的齁會不會跌床駕屋那個剛剛講就是那個電信啊這些的監理還是在NCC我們不管Operation就平常維運我們不管那你們跟NCC的關係勒"},{"start":11930.27,"end":11948.497,"text":"我們跟NCC的關係基本上就是剛剛講像這個獎勵這個譬如說偏鄉或者是說獎勵這種貧苦的分配這個我們在處理就屬於因為你們是平行單位我們是平行單位我們是原就是說在這個剛剛講就貧苦的發放還有就是偏鄉的獎勵這個我們會處理"},{"start":11952.372,"end":11981.302,"text":"我們從111年到113年大概我們海嵐損壞了17次17次的原因我不曉得有沒有去檢查你們光112年2月2號跟2月8號那麼第二號海嵐第三號海嵐雙段都斷掉了斷掉的話當然現在就微波來代替微波的替代率功能現在會比海嵐好嗎"},{"start":11982.875,"end":11985.136,"text":"那微波再壞了咧?微波再壞了怎麼辦?"},{"start":12009.624,"end":12011.788,"text":"微博在外就是衛星,我們現在也有低軌衛星可以使用"},{"start":12016.468,"end":12032.491,"text":"你們現在損壞的原因是大陸漁船還是他們海警船還是我們因為風浪的關係斷了,你們有沒有去探討?瞭解是因為是被漁船勾斷,目前的瞭解是這樣子因為新聞報導是有老公故意把它弄壞的"},{"start":12040.641,"end":12068.294,"text":"這個我不確定,但是知道是漁船去不管是故意或是現在詐騙極端很多啊,到底你讀錯的事情我們沒有確實的,我們只知道被漁船勾斷,那漁船為什麼要勾斷我們沒有辦法去查網路啦、臉書啦、說說說什麼審什麼某某大佬又掛了又什麼的我第二天一看節目上又出現了,沒事啊講的跟真的一樣啊,你們這個都不會去追嗎?"},{"start":12072.553,"end":12095.071,"text":"這個新聞這樣子網路裡面臉書出來就算了就結束了你們相關單位會不會去追查目前這個所謂的假訊息這一塊這一塊的我們只能從剛剛講就是說從技術面去看這是不是假訊息至於內容部分目前是不是啊因為尤其打詐防騙啊"},{"start":12096.482,"end":12113.428,"text":"你們有這個單位有這個機關,但是給國人的感覺還不是那麼好,受騙的人繼續增加,上當的人繼續在增加,應該要有點效果,是不是?所以你們這方面你們覺得你們的工作做得很好嗎?"},{"start":12114.318,"end":12138.429,"text":"還有我們已經布建了一些這個剛剛講我商人以後引進了一些技術像防炸雷達去做用AI去做掃描確實掃到很多詐騙的訊息那個確實也讓他們下架所以在源頭上確實有些效果但是這個是長期的這是跟詐騙集團的長期的戰爭所以就是說這個我們變好他也變好所以就這個東西還在打仗"},{"start":12138.809,"end":12166.577,"text":"那我們但是希望能夠打贏這場戰那我剛才講到第二條海欄第三條海欄修復了沒有?修復了是已經修復了修復了嗎?那第四條的海欄第四條海欄總經費要14億14億我看你們很像是115年6月份要完工嗎?對但是目前的進度怎麼樣?目前進度市長是報告一下"},{"start":12168.201,"end":12194.933,"text":"報告委員目前進度如期順利,115年預計6月應該是可以完工我很奇怪齁,你在前章裡面只編了1.4億元啊是,謝委員那個...總計劃要14億欸這邊中華電信公司有透過交通部有這樣預算的編列當然如果說我們未來我們還在爭取預算再來補貼中華電信也是可以的"},{"start":12195.731,"end":12201.599,"text":"那你預算如果沒有爭取到的話,中華電力完全要負責嗎?目前是這樣子14億欸中華電力有這個能力嗎?"},{"start":12209.263,"end":12231.541,"text":"我看你們簡報裡面說要立法委員去希望我去爭取當然我們如果說政府能夠有補助的話會加速加快他的建制速度因為這個涉及到他的經費的分配所以我們在115年到118年也有在爭取3.2億那這個要在社發基金我們國發會裡面來爭取如果可以的話請委員幫忙國發會"},{"start":12235.98,"end":12251.209,"text":"國防部民主建設基金只剩下多少錢哪有這個十幾億沒有十幾億沒有就是3.2億4年3.2億4年3.2億你全部計費要14億14億現在只撥了1.4億還有12點多億還沒撥還沒撥的話你這個錢要從哪裡來還是中華電信要自籌因為這個部分我們政府只能用補助的概念沒辦法全額來我這個沒有意見剩下一點時間"},{"start":12265.236,"end":12294.187,"text":"我想請問部長馬祖5G的通訊基礎建設你們建設的進程是什麼5G啊跟委員報告我們馬祖屬於離島偏鄉他現在5G目前朝向99%的涵蓋那委員看到您這張照片上面從淺藍色就是一個100%比較高的涵蓋所以涵蓋是有的那通訊的品質我們在加強"},{"start":12295.831,"end":12323.271,"text":"那現在台灣大哥大還有遠傳他們根本是零啊現在跟委員報告中華電信、台客大跟遠傳在馬祖5G的建設的數量按照NCC官網核發的執照100台左右所以有涵蓋但是就像剛剛說的後面的海嵐、後面的微波的頻寬還不夠所以這個用戶使用起來感覺上比較卡所以這個部分我們會再加強"},{"start":12324.397,"end":12337.226,"text":"因為現在是蘋果的話還好啊,如果是遠傳大概大概什麼的收訊率不是非常的好。我說你們對這兩個電信公司你們有沒有什麼對應的措施?"},{"start":12339.092,"end":12367.694,"text":"這個措施上面我們會透過普及服務因為我們今年的普及服務辦法也加入了行動寬頻就是說透過補貼補助的方式能夠希望它能夠加速市長你們有時間的話找他們幾家業者來溝通一下來開會嘛是好不好是你起碼讓5G的普及率能夠增加那我們開會之後我們會再複製委員辦公室這邊好好好那謝謝部長謝謝市長好不好好謝謝謝謝召委謝謝好謝謝陳雪生委員"},{"start":12372.691,"end":12372.931,"text":"請黃國昌部長"},{"start":12391.132,"end":12406.003,"text":"委員好部長你好今天審查預算我給他算了一下你這個數位發展部花錢毫不手軟數位發展部大概我不知道這預算是不是你編的那個你其實部長以前編的還是你知道"},{"start":12411.152,"end":12411.912,"text":"國外旅費158部分平均6.19萬"},{"start":12430.953,"end":12436.474,"text":"本部8.5萬中央政府平均1.7萬所以旅費3.54倍平均本部4.86倍委辦費用委辦給人家平均40%數位產發署"},{"start":12458.346,"end":12463.529,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":12479.721,"end":12493.214,"text":"被騙5億九成都是投資詐騙到現在為止我們政府的單位成立的越多打詐國家對打詐辦公室成立越多詐騙越多一年就是87億"},{"start":12496.389,"end":12497.009,"text":"拜託委員那個"},{"start":12516.172,"end":12543.002,"text":"我們因為數位發展我們數位經濟本來就會跟國外尤其是資安跟國外有很多互動所以我們在這邊的經費阿幾個月出國沒有那個阿就是3.54倍阿平均你們補裡面4.86倍阿我跟你講阿我全部砍喔那個我可以請那個我全部砍喔我告訴你數法部成為國外旅遊部"},{"start":12545.314,"end":12555.127,"text":"跟委員報告齁那因為速發部成立之後有非常多的業務包含跟美國或者是歐洲這邊會有很大量的那種麻煩你們的成效過去唐鳳東部長弄個點面線APP 這樣什麼成果也沒有還要講兩個半天"},{"start":12563.858,"end":12583.22,"text":"是跟委員再補充一下比如說以跟歐洲地區好了那歐洲因為我們現在跟英國其實也在做經貿談判啊人家都不要出國你講這個給國外啦沒有人相信啦成效也很差啊人家點名台灣的詐騙三大機關要負最大責任數位發布"},{"start":12584.557,"end":12588.9,"text":"政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":12600.302,"end":12600.382,"text":"委員委員"},{"start":12616.272,"end":12643.092,"text":"委辦是因為我們有很多計劃是委託給像比如說公營運資策會公協會去執行包括剛剛講就是說那個因為我們剛剛講我們發展多用AI去做很多這個比如說數位轉型所以這些計劃都是需要再做研發所以你這些旅遊其他單位都存在為什麼你是人家的三十四倍為什麼你是人家的二十倍為什麼"},{"start":12645.722,"end":12659.351,"text":"為什麼啊 為什麼我這樣子啊 34倍 別人 你剛剛講理由 那個理由 別的單位也要啊 也要回給工人院 也要回給工協會 為什麼你們特別多 就代表你們特別懶惰啊"},{"start":12660.342,"end":12679.717,"text":"你們特別懶惰啊,你們的人就欸啊都放棄還是你們特別不專業人家也專業產業推動我請署長說明一下跟委員報告我要送經濟部來我們在以前在工業局其實委辦會也是因為就是要做產業發展你給我查一下齁你今天你回答我都不滿意了根本就沒有回答我重點齁你給我寫個簡單的報告可以嗎這個禮拜起來給我3天3天給我齁還我問一下部長"},{"start":12692.047,"end":12704.177,"text":"台灣有沒有在發展第一軌道貴星?台灣現在是用OneWeb的這個台灣現在是用兩部分的一部分就是說既有的系統我們是用這個英國的OneWeb速發部有沒有角色扮演?"},{"start":12705.339,"end":12732.591,"text":"像OneWeb的那個推動跟使用是速發部在推動?啊他們現在STARLINK那個馬斯克那個SPACEX要離開台灣有沒有這回事?這個因為這屬於經濟部的那個產業面我不清楚但是在服務上那個STARLINK我們有試著去跟他談好的那你給我時間表齁你不管怎麼樣你今天因為我時間到了齁不要花太多時間你回答我"},{"start":12733.351,"end":12756.969,"text":"我們什麼時候台灣可以見到全面性的低軌道軌心可以取代我們現在的海底海底電纜否則的話一打仗有什麼問題這個是在國科會那邊在太空中心你告訴我你有參與嗎我們主要是在commercial已經在run的系統我們去想辦法讓他在台灣落地"},{"start":12757.449,"end":12770.74,"text":"現在都沒有?什麼時候會錄製?什麼時候?什麼時候?王偉已經通了,今年通了。王偉年底全通。年底全通?對,就王偉我們現在年底在台灣任何地方24小時都可以有地軌。那什麼時候會有6G啊?"},{"start":12772.796,"end":12776.079,"text":"6G還2030年2030那個標準還沒定現在不是有B5G嗎B5G還在對B5G到6G還有點距離但是B5G什麼時候6G2030B5G2030有沒有"},{"start":12791.833,"end":12792.474,"text":"接下來邀請黃國昌委員發言"},{"start":12827.825,"end":12831.61,"text":"謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請黃部長我要"},{"start":12840.584,"end":12865.611,"text":"部長,數發部從2022年8月風光皆白到現在我想社會上面有很多評價講得比較直接一點是很多批評我相信部長都有聽到當然國人會關心的事情是說當副發部今年的預算跟明年你們現在編起來的預算加上前瞻的預算"},{"start":12867.113,"end":12880.346,"text":"大概拿了283億兩千多萬從各個部會來講這個預算的金額絕對不能算低所以大家就很關心數發部到底做了什麼樣子的事情"},{"start":12882.509,"end":12899.535,"text":"我就看整個副發部在預算的編列上或者是在相關經費的使用上有一些事情我覺得很困惑困惑是說你們有很多計畫比如說高齡科技產業數位負能推動銀髮四代連結計畫"},{"start":12902.876,"end":12926.372,"text":"今年的預算一億七千七百五十萬明年的預算一億兩千兩百四十萬總計兩億九千九百九十萬這個計畫的主持人是誰?您知道嗎?這個計畫的主持人是誰?您知道嗎?他現在還是主秘嗎?他現在還是主秘"},{"start":12931.795,"end":12944.984,"text":"那你們公務員去編這個計畫主要是目的要在計畫裡面養人嗎?因為我看人事費裡面五千多萬這個計畫的內容你們有沒有看過?用計畫在養人啊?"},{"start":12953.338,"end":12966.768,"text":"因為你齁如果說齁今天這是國科會的計畫學校的單位教授研究計畫要帶學生要養專業的助理所以我可以理解可是怎麼數發部會開始搞這個東西啊部長這個狀況你知不知道"},{"start":12972.405,"end":12999.037,"text":"國標單位是公研院等一下等一下等一下先先停一下現在到底誰是部長那個報告報告委員這個我們很多東西是應該這樣講就是說我們在研發裡面有有上中下我們出發部主要是做中下包括推動所以像這個銀髮族這個我們會跟比如說跟公研合作那公研的公研就是就是拿一些研究成果然後自己在產業裡面去補助產業去應用去推動會會在我們這裡處理"},{"start":13000.441,"end":13025.666,"text":"不是啊 這個跟產業沒關係啊計畫主持人就你們祖密啊對 那是那個然後下面養了一堆人啊這個東西在做什麼你知不知道銀髮世代的連結對對對 這個東西在做什麼你知不知道對高齡的現在的一個問題我們希望能夠讓這個他們能夠有這個能夠用數位用這個這樣講這些數位的技術能夠做一些在生活上的改善你覺得這個計畫推動到現在成效如何"},{"start":13030.219,"end":13051.282,"text":"部長覺得成效如何還是你不是很了解因為這個計畫知道就知道不知道就不知道這個計畫我在我上任之前已經推了一年半我再回去瞭解這個我不甚瞭解我可以對話你不是很瞭解請你回去瞭解請你回去瞭解我為什麼請部長回去瞭解花了幾億搞這個東西啊來我給部長看一下"},{"start":13053.114,"end":13053.614,"text":"這個的確偏低啦"},{"start":13082.093,"end":13101.718,"text":"用偏低兩個字可以形容喔我送部長四個字啊叫慘不忍睹啊書發部很有錢啊幾億的計畫搞這種東西出來啊幫了什麼銀髮族啊用銀髮用勒林用這些fancy的字說服立法委員給你們預算搞這個東西出來"},{"start":13113.232,"end":13137.359,"text":"爛的不得了啊下面一樣啊18次19次16次我的老天啊這個到底在幹嘛部長回去了解一個禮拜之內書面報告說明這是怎麼回事因為這件事情如果沒有說明我在這邊先把話講白了"},{"start":13138.855,"end":13165.521,"text":"這個不是只有一年喔今年還繼續編喔我一定砍到聖靈園沒有必要執行下去嘛我執行這個要幹嘛我們都支持壯世代啊支持銀髮啊支持樂齡啊但支持的方法絕對不是錢亂花啊這在搞什麼東西啊好一個禮拜我們給委員一個報告再看一下審查委員怎麼講的"},{"start":13167.093,"end":13194.053,"text":"各計畫的規劃缺乏創新性高齡學習或社交課程在現有的長青學院已經非常普遍高齡數位學習教材開發的數量也很多結果呢結果我們的速發部錢太多啊立法院給的錢啊都花不行啊隨便亂花效果到底在哪裡"},{"start":13196.109,"end":13222.395,"text":"連審查委員都看不下去啊事情還不是只有這樣來再看一下另外一個計畫有一個數位前瞻應用發展計畫這名字又取得很好啦有數位啊有前瞻啊來關鍵成果跟績效指標我看每一年度的奇怪內容幾乎都重複啊內容幾乎都重複啊"},{"start":13224.315,"end":13253.134,"text":"部長我相信啊如果你自己當審查委員你看了可能都會皺眉頭啊這到底是在搞什麼東西啊來我們再繼續往下看審查委員一樣啊砲聲隆隆啊三項目標各自獨立論述沒有共同的終點目標這個目標也明確說明本計畫以幕僚作業需求為主整體計畫包括眾多不明確的開發需求"},{"start":13254.4,"end":13282.421,"text":"公範包山包海沒有實質對應的產出啊這如果是任何一家公司的負責人啊看到這樣子的內容會皺眉頭啊這個錢要丟下去嗎錢丟到水裡還蹦一聲啊這個丟到水裡這個錢丟下去可能連聲音都沒有啊再往後看喔主席站起來了不好意思我最後給我最後"},{"start":13285,"end":13299.608,"text":"次四代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬在幹嘛今天我質詢的時候我提了三個東西出來請部長回去了解請部長回去了解一個禮拜之內一個禮拜之內"},{"start":13302.567,"end":13320.617,"text":"說清楚執行到現在你個人滿不滿意納稅的錢還要不要這樣花一個禮拜之內的書面回答如果我看了沒有辦法說服的話我醜話講在前面今年度相關的預算我一定砍到剩領園謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員"},{"start":13328.649,"end":13336.815,"text":"接下來邀請林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員不在現場接下來邀請吳春成委員發言有請部長請黃部長"},{"start":13357.299,"end":13358.58,"text":"那剛才呢我們這個黃國昌總召"},{"start":13385.225,"end":13404.201,"text":"所提出的所提出的這都是讓人真的是滿心痛的事情這個我想這個部長那個你很有理想性但是你到了速發布之後應該會看到"},{"start":13405.515,"end":13432.093,"text":"其實有很多需要改革的地方需要改革的地方我自己在推動的一個過程當中部長都很認同但是往下推都很困難往下推所以就像剛才所提到了樂齡好幫手我覺得大家都在虛晃一招我就很懷疑其實裡面"},{"start":13433.732,"end":13455.375,"text":"大家欺上瞞下做表面功夫我們的政府機構處處充滿這種問題很多部會很理想性的東西然後講了哇那部長來了大家談的溝通都很感動都很怎麼樣但是你真的推到推下去以後都自愛難行"},{"start":13456.755,"end":13476.74,"text":"都自愛難行但是呢大撒幣大花錢像剛才講那幾個這個什麼樂齡好幫手那一種那麼多的活動花了那麼多錢點滴率都在20個以下然後呢難道沒有看到嗎都看到已經推行這麼久了然後也沒有改善"},{"start":13478.46,"end":13505.1,"text":"那像這種問題啦像這種問題那個我覺得真的是要大力的大力的改革久了久了這個很多很多底下烏煙瘴氣的事情可能很多好我先不談這個事情啦但是總是要一個好的開始像這個我們諮詢業"},{"start":13507.963,"end":13525.918,"text":"資訊業也辦了那麼久了要有一些創造的新意嘛所以呢這個是我跟部長建議的啦我跟部長建議的就是這個現在的年輕人不太參加實體活動資訊業怎麼樣創在再創熱潮嘛我說答應我幫你帶一批人來什麼帶來就帶壯士帶來"},{"start":13536.387,"end":13541.551,"text":"所以這個溝通的方式就叫董資樂園就要開幕了很多的新創的一些做法"},{"start":13548.137,"end":13577.01,"text":"OK 所以呢 這裡做個廣告請大家來參加直接跳過來這一頁那想這個問題喔 的確這個非常就是整個的數位落差那蘇巴部會看到就是年齡的數位落差是重點但是呢我們現在一時政策都會往這個區域的數位落差去做那這一個可以看得到嗎 區域的數位落差就兩成嘛"},{"start":13577.91,"end":13599.335,"text":"那最高跟最低兩層嘛,零零落差差到五層嘛那這高領社會這個問題會更嚴重那所以呢接下來因為我的時間所以呢好現在呢辦這次諮詢的董之樂園那我也非常努力在帶動"},{"start":13601.795,"end":13626.49,"text":"帶動這一個但是我覺得我真的很努力但是呢事實上不會我覺得當然都做出一個做出一個場面但是事實上事實上會再更積極不過第一次試辦沒有給你們太多壓力所以呢希望活動辦完以後因為只有4天的活動不是大拜拜這樣這個活動之後"},{"start":13627.851,"end":13630.195,"text":"請問部長,好好地檢討、好好地觀察這次的活動的過程當中,是不是"},{"start":13641.92,"end":13641.94,"text":"請問部長"},{"start":13662.641,"end":13678.381,"text":"報告委員我想在這次這個活動結束之後我們再看看怎麼樣配合剛剛其實剛剛黃委員講確實我們有一些經費可以對這個不管是壯士代或高齡有一些幫助那怎麼讓幫助更有效我想我們再來檢討"},{"start":13681.665,"end":13697.16,"text":"我要跟部長講昨天我們院長卓院長也宣誓了因為昨天召開的社福委員會行政院社福委員會要重視壯士帶積極的參與社會積極參與社會數位是非常重要的部分"},{"start":13702.245,"end":13717.831,"text":"那所以最後這個就是不是可以要求這個訴發部承諾把縮短年齡的數位落差的具體措施在3個月之內提出一份詳盡的結果3個月的時間黃國昌都給一個禮拜我給3個月"},{"start":13721.693,"end":13722.613,"text":"謝謝吳春城委員"},{"start":13755.731,"end":13765.001,"text":"接下來邀請徐欣盈委員發言徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在現場接下來邀請林月琦委員發言主席好麻煩那個黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":13784.224,"end":13784.304,"text":"主席"},{"start":13800.505,"end":13820.406,"text":"打蠟專法上路後賦予網路廣告平臺業者防詐的義務。為了明確哪些平臺要納管義務,我們看到9月16日的時候,蘇發部已經公告了即日生效的一定規模的網路廣告平臺計算基準,來明定如果符合有"},{"start":13821.067,"end":13847.011,"text":"刊登詐騙廣告的風險我國每個月的獨立訪客的人數超過5%的話這兩項定義那就對於要被納管的我們的網路廣告平臺包括Google、Meta跟Line都入列那我們再看到9月27號我在質詢的時候我就已經跟院長提出來是說"},{"start":13847.991,"end":13854.136,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":13867.752,"end":13894.535,"text":"網路遊戲成癮跟網路霸凌有極大的相關性所以在這種狀況底下美國已經在7月的時候就已經通過了成癮性的內容剝削的兒童法它第一個規範具有成癮性的演算法第二個是避免深夜推播內容的影響睡眠第三個家長在保護隱私下可限制使用網路長途跟明定罰款英國在去年"},{"start":13895.396,"end":13907.123,"text":"十月也通過了網路安全法規範業者一定要履行的職責還有呢定義新型態的網路上犯罪還有要求業者要及時刪除若有對孩子有妨礙的話還有明定罰則那9月27號我在總詢詢的時候"},{"start":13912.346,"end":13914.788,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":13933.423,"end":13942.928,"text":"委員你也說你們是這些平台的管理單位所以想問一下數位發展部到底對這些網路平台要如何進行管理"},{"start":13945.489,"end":13974.848,"text":"報告委員就是沒有做那個打詐罰讓我們能夠對這4個平台這個4個平台主要是網路廣告平台但是我們有個機制這個重點是那個機制存在就是說我們有一個機制能夠要求他們下架那當然這個下架的一開始是以詐騙為主就是說詐騙訊息但是如果有一些剛剛講這個兒少如果這個兒少如果是比如說衛福部落發現哪些東西有問題我們可以協助去處理這些下架但是判斷這個東西內容是不是有兒少問題還是需要"},{"start":13975.128,"end":14004.367,"text":"而常常境外的甚至平臺微服部大也很困難所以我也希望所以那天9月27號總諮詢的時候院長就已經同意因為網路安全現在是世界各國最大的隱憂對我們下一代影響非常的深厚我們看下一屆澳洲的總理就已經宣布要立法禁止16歲以下孩童使用的社群媒體為什麼要這樣立法也是為了保護下一代因為我剛剛提過"},{"start":14005.128,"end":14008.831,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議二、審查114年度中央政府總預算：完整會議"},{"start":14024.683,"end":14053.455,"text":"9月執行到現在10月11月本來要審預算那接下來要審預算了所以我也想問速發部對網路平台你怎麼做會有拘束力我們希望你在因為之前我執行那我在想說你們為什麼明年的預算還是沒有去考慮院長也同意要一併來做所以也希望你們速發部針對這一塊因為當然做是要人力來做我相信你編的預算也是人力我希望你們把這個納入"},{"start":14054.315,"end":14066.118,"text":"否則的話這預算我會好好的看管以上謝謝好謝謝林業勤委員接下來邀請麥玉珍委員發言謝謝主席有請黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":14087.685,"end":14095.711,"text":"委員好部長好想要請教部長一下目前數位發展部在詐騙通報查詢網站的預算編列了為6000萬請問該平台通報率及查記處理的成效如何?"},{"start":14106.218,"end":14126.176,"text":"還有外籍人士是包含新住民移工僑生還有投資移民技術移民已經超過150萬人外籍人士語言不通當他們收片時如何求助還有被騙多少人還有多少金額部長你知道嗎"},{"start":14128.171,"end":14150.451,"text":"我們現在被騙的就是說在我們那個所謂的這個我們是165這個就是我們這個查詢裡面目前看到每天大概就3到6億嘛這是金額啦對但是說我說外籍人士在台灣已經超過150萬人但是有多少多少人還有語言求助"},{"start":14150.971,"end":14153.313,"text":"外景人事我就比較沒有資料所以你沒有去沒有去統計但是有很多團體就幫你統計了我希望這個部分"},{"start":14166.866,"end":14190.835,"text":"你要去統計好不好所以如果你沒有關於這些外籍人士所以我要問你人民現在繳的稅金有包含外籍人士繳的稅金嗎外籍人士應該都有啊都有的話為什麼編列預算在防詐網站是不是有多種語言"},{"start":14192.128,"end":14193.45,"text":"所以說我們這個網站都沒有多種語言嘛所以說是是說165而已嘛"},{"start":14208.05,"end":14213.913,"text":"所以這樣子的話我看到的就是防詐資訊協助的就是一般民眾缺雜對在台的外籍人士的協助當他面臨就是特殊的詐騙的狀況就是沒有一個管道也沒有這樣子的求助所以說我們如何檢舉機制還有保護的措施我想要問你的是這一塊"},{"start":14234.674,"end":14235.715,"text":"我們自己目前正在測試網路詐騙通報查詢網"},{"start":14255.682,"end":14259.963,"text":"對,但是我們每次我們民眾打電話就是進我們的防詐中心都會經常被回復的就是兩個國外的帳號無法查詢國外的詐騙集團無法追蹤就是詐騙的中心回的都是這個"},{"start":14275.027,"end":14279.349,"text":"所以部長有沒有考慮說成立一個多種語言專屬的團隊專責調查協助查緝國外內的詐騙集團以多元的方式就是預防減少國民還有外籍人士在台灣"},{"start":14292.336,"end":14294.62,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":14308.919,"end":14312,"text":"對但是我們不想聽的就是研議中努力中希望是有有一個真正的規劃但是我看你編列了6"},{"start":14327.128,"end":14330.932,"text":"6千萬的費用是以預防詐騙還是減少詐騙這筆費用廣告及媒體的預算知否真正的發揮了保護人民的功能還是甚至還是只是對特定的廠商就是有利"},{"start":14349.021,"end":14364.043,"text":"這個是給民眾用的這個是我們說網路通報詐騙通報查詢是給民眾看到訊息不確定是不是詐騙之前能夠來查詢所以我才說你們就是6千萬嘛一千萬的話第一千萬啊就是要自己"},{"start":14364.603,"end":14366.664,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":14385.762,"end":14386.363,"text":"網路詐騙通報查詢網的維運跟開發"},{"start":14406.742,"end":14413.528,"text":"對 所以我的意思說你花人民的血汗錢連眼睛眨一下都沒有眨 對不對所以請我們書法部以一週內提供給我們就是多元的服務的規劃"},{"start":14421.215,"end":14426.457,"text":"包含語言上線時間因為你拿的納稅錢不是只有人民所有的人所以要負責新的團隊的名單還有及時更新我們的新增的語言的上線日期希望你要把這個因為很多人都說你們都說詐騙集團是國外的"},{"start":14444.364,"end":14469.232,"text":"詐騙的賬號是國外的但是你們要如何比詐騙集團更先進啊更有語言觀有世界觀讓這些人才能在台灣的外籍人士才能幫助到你變成如何去打仗去除害這個才是真正的解決問題啦不要是說花錢都砸一個眼睛都沒辦法砸"},{"start":14469.872,"end":14470.772,"text":"接下來邀請侯孟楷委員發言"},{"start":14501.578,"end":14501.598,"text":"黃國昌議員"},{"start":14511.986,"end":14533.648,"text":"是我想訴發部大家國人很關心跟重視的當然都是打詐騙的議題打詐的議題本期也下載了網路詐騙通報查詢網的這個APP那其中裡面我有看到一個統計啊我想這個APP已經上線一個多月了嘛大家都有通報大家都有這個這個統計相關資料其中詐騙媒介"},{"start":14535.43,"end":14548.404,"text":"就是本席跟國人大家所關心就是說到底這些廣告都在哪裡做詐騙哪裡讓民眾獲得這個資訊部長有沒有掌握詐騙媒介現在的平台裡面最多還是在臉書臉書那再來勒"},{"start":14551.024,"end":14562.788,"text":"再來就是應該就是就說臉書以外就是Line啊Google啊然後像TikTok您看一下你的詐騙媒介我拉30天的資料總共10萬筆將近11萬筆"},{"start":14566.956,"end":14573.946,"text":"6萬筆是臉書23000筆是IG、Instagram其實也是臉書的再來MetaMessage4900筆將近5000筆還有Meta的廣告聯播網18000筆"},{"start":14583.599,"end":14609.576,"text":"所以其實光臉書的一個百分之九十、九十幾都是他們相關的系統真正你剛剛所講Google只有13311萬裡面只佔了133而Live只佔了681都是不到千位所以換言之九成都是臉書相關系統那既然已經知道大宗的部分在那邊了"},{"start":14611.172,"end":14632.024,"text":"那我們除了繼續給國人通報繼續被動的下架那我們主動積極的作為在哪裡臉書它可以賺那麼多錢它可以接受廣告沒有問題你要去做社群正常的廣告我們當然歡迎這個是正常的市場機制啊但是不能給詐騙集團投放廣告啊"},{"start":14632.544,"end":14643.509,"text":"所以報告委員所以我們現在為什麼要通過打詐釋法裡面尤其關於這個這個廣告平台已經通過了上個會期已經通過了我現在就7月16已經通過了7月12已經通過了沒錯所以我們現在到現在11月13所以我們"},{"start":14650.632,"end":14663.659,"text":"所以現在他們第一個他們要在台灣設法律代表跟落地10月30他們已經申請了11月30我們會公告就是這個這個我們這些執法這個什麼他們有件事一定要做就是廣告實名制"},{"start":14664.099,"end":14692.665,"text":"就是說過去的剛剛講的那種詐騙都是是這個是本期上一次在同樣交通委員會的時候我就要求的嘛那現在更有數據佐證的就是高達九成九成屋以上我們台灣的詐騙樣態類型都是從他們的一個母公司出來嘛沒錯沒錯所以Meta是我們最關心的那我們進去在剛剛講就是我們已經跟Meta所謂的喝咖啡包括他們派美國的技術專家來跟我們討論他喝咖啡喝很多但是他還是肢意妄為啊所以現在已經跟他講"},{"start":14693.465,"end":14693.725,"text":"拜託用這樣的法來"},{"start":14723.228,"end":14749.726,"text":"第一個但是先道德勸說第二就是用法律來要求他要配合希望這樣的結果就是說我們再也不會看到這種所謂假公眾人物的報告部長源頭管理才是重點不要累壞我們第一線的警務同仁或是累壞我們所有其實我們說用這個通報機制大家要再通報你已經看到要再通報那何不從源頭管理尤其是我們已經上線一個月了我覺得用你的這個數字就很清楚明白的認證驗證我們廣告來源詐騙廣告來源到底在哪裡"},{"start":14753.288,"end":14777.494,"text":"那如果說您剛有提到是可以源頭管理的話那本席也想請教另外一個部分就是我也在不管是外環委員會、交通委員會到現在交通委員會Google上面我搜尋啊電子煙啊我不知道你有沒有搜尋過但是你只要搜尋電子煙電子煙現在是不合法的在台灣那結果我們搜尋反而它的官方網站持續在那邊"},{"start":14778.735,"end":14801.097,"text":"那衛福部居然跟我們講是說國民健康署跟我們講是說已經把後面有點TW的給下架了但是沒有啊但是重點是現在Google我相信所有的同仁你現在Google打開電子煙三個字一搜尋官方網站馬上出來而且製作的華麗精美程度甚至裡面還有衛教告訴你有多少口味多少等等的"},{"start":14801.778,"end":14829.693,"text":"那這難道不是違禁品可以讓我們大剌剌的再搜尋搜尋的到那速發部到底有什麼樣的因應作為我們基本上對這種廣告就是剛講這種廣告我們是有一個機制叫RPG是可以把它封網就是說天使解析啦內封網內封網這件事情應該已經討論了因為他是一直自始至終都不合法對所以我們有在在這裡面再做一些剛講搜尋以後衛福部有沒有找你們討論過"},{"start":14830.794,"end":14831.114,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":14850.596,"end":14867.263,"text":"結果這一個議題我從未還委員會質詢衛福部長衛福部長說要找速發部討論沒下文教育部長沒下文那到現在速發部長速發部長我請教你說也可以封還我相信技術絕對做得到啊"},{"start":14867.643,"end":14893.883,"text":"但是我們不能隨便封就是他們要跟我們講所以不能隨便封那他現在賣的是一個不合法的產品這個產品是在台灣不允許販賣的他就是一個非法的東西甚至為什麼我們講說他相關重要是因為他有可能會搭載毒品然後他可能會引誘青少年吸食止煙啊我們去便利商店買便利商店店員都還要看身份證"},{"start":14895.149,"end":14922.26,"text":"電子煙不用因為我網路購買不會檢查身份我寄送到便利商店或到付款我去付款取貨也不會檢查身份那會不會反而是更嚴重對所以我們現在的機制是只要衛福部通知我們哪些網頁要封我們就去封但是封網的決定是來自衛福部部長所以現在這樣又是互推皮球了就是我們的機制因為我們我們蘇花部要有法才能夠去封那問題這個法的"},{"start":14923.781,"end":14938.86,"text":"主管機關是在衛福部所以我們不能夠隨便的做決定就封所以還是要有這個有有執法單位來來來要求我們封我們就封我們是有這個機制但是我們不能自己主動好很好來那我請教我們講到現在這樣子我"},{"start":14941.343,"end":14963.831,"text":"到目前為止聽起來我是肯定因為數位發展部是有這樣的工具所以有沒有任何人可以回答我過去這段時間我相信我們早晚民進黨國民黨民眾黨大家都有問過啦衛福部有沒有來找我們數位發展部要來做封網衛福部有沒有來找數位發展部討論過應該要讓他下架關於電子煙的問題目前有沒有"},{"start":14968.087,"end":14992.599,"text":"委員我大概回應一下那基本上委員垂詢的確實是一個問題那我們已經跟衛福部協調點滴那部分目前為止才有兩個機制一個就是如果是點滴注冊的話我們就把相關資料移給衛福部有衛福部國民健康署去做採取如果沒有這個資料的話我們就把它封掉那另外一個部分的話是平台的部分我們也積極的協調相關平台業者如果有這種電子菸的話也會做儲存"},{"start":14994.42,"end":14994.44,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":15016.13,"end":15024.8,"text":"拜託委員根據我衛福部的資料Facebook目前的案件是最多跟詐騙一樣5916件拜託委員那個私下網站是307件您是?市院司司長"},{"start":15037.075,"end":15057.768,"text":"資源師牛信仁師長牛師長你完全沒有聽懂本席的問題我現在沒有在討論平台我們Google打開現在搜尋你不用任何的技術你不用任何的關鍵字你打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到洋洋灑灑官方網站做的比誰都精美"},{"start":15059.397,"end":15082.832,"text":"那我現在問的是說過去剛剛部長已經講了嘛如果說衛福部因為法院在衛福部主管機關是衛福部如果衛福部要求速發部速發部可以執行封網的動作啊那所以我現在想要問的是那到底過去那麼多時間來是衛福部有要求速發部速發部沒有動作還是衛福部自始至終他身為主管機關就是沒有沒有沒有討論所以才能放任他們持續在那邊販售"},{"start":15084.153,"end":15109.306,"text":"委員現在在上次的教育委員會您也垂詢到這問題所以衛福部現在正在召開跨部會的協調會議那也提供請各部會提供資料給衛福部看我們能夠協助什麼那還要多久還要多久衛福部的討論那基本上現在是在比誰放水的比較多是不是還要多久還是給大家最後一段時間趕快喔要封囉清倉大拍賣"},{"start":15114.195,"end":15132.438,"text":"部長,我說實在我很實在話講很持平的來說這背後利益有多龐大我都不敢想但是如果說它真的是一個不合法的東西中華民國是個法治的國家我們不應該放任不合法的東西持續的販售"},{"start":15134.694,"end":15153.441,"text":"如果說我們所有的部會都不作為你推我我推你其實這件事情我就看得很明顯就是互相的推卸責任衛福部說他沒有技術然後訴發部說我沒有法源然後教育部是說這個其實是社會有關我只要管教校園就好了但是校園裡面他又沒有辦法阻止外面的東西進入到校園你們每一個部會都很重要每一個部會都很大"},{"start":15159.821,"end":15159.961,"text":"謝謝侯孟凱委員"},{"start":15191.055,"end":15198.378,"text":"接下來邀請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在現場接下來邀請許智傑委員謝謝主席我們請部長請黃部長"},{"start":15215.066,"end":15237.786,"text":"部長好,部長我看了我們的預算裡面就是有對於海嵐站增設有五千多萬那對於我們亞灣2.0新型人才的需求也多編了兩千多萬然後呢我們要吸引國際大廠到我國也編了十幾億沒關係"},{"start":15241.96,"end":15270.985,"text":"那大致上就是說我想請教一下上一次那個數位數化部有開會就是說大概一個月之內會訂停出那個計畫嗎?現在大概一個月了?超過了?就是我們本來那個就是11月22號我們會有個會本來是在11月22本來10月底因為颱風所以引到11月22號我會親自主持那個會議在台南在哪裡?在沙崙我們的辦公室沙崙那邀請的對象都決定了嗎?"},{"start":15271.745,"end":15294.214,"text":"應該都決定了那個包括包括委員的辦公室都要跟那個部長報告一下這個其實我已經跟高雄市政府也提過那個羅副市長他們也覺得有一些興趣那我想就是說是不是整體來講就是說我們這個海嵐站呢"},{"start":15295.154,"end":15311.899,"text":"那將來那個地方包括那個有可能是不是有資料中心或者是一些數位那個超級電腦等等的啦那基本上就是說這個規劃我是希望說部長可以規劃比較"},{"start":15313.769,"end":15337.346,"text":"整體性的比較整體性的就是說我今天台南站他只是一個入口今天我就是有一個數位港口讓數位進來讓全世界的數位跟資料可以進來這是一個大的概念但是呢進來以後他可能還要連接IDC或者是連接就是高雄有相關的"},{"start":15338.046,"end":15340.447,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":15359.611,"end":15381.728,"text":"那現在要做亞灣2.0那亞灣2.0事實上就是說包括我們人才的培育那另外我們數法部還有一個就是國發會會編給我們的就是補助這個AI應用的一些預算那上一次我有提過就是說我們的預算就"},{"start":15382.83,"end":15401.31,"text":"一般給民間的公司嘛但是如果他可以取得跟政府機關的合作或者是簽MOU等等的類似這樣子的概念那正好城市發展有需要然後他又能夠配合國家的政策又能配合城市的發展的方向"},{"start":15402.051,"end":15427.663,"text":"如果這樣子可以給他們多一點加分的機會的話我想對於城市的規劃跟發展會更完整所以這相關的這一些配套措施不知道我們數發部現在準備的怎麼樣有一些剛剛講委員這個數位港這個我們都非常支持那在11月20號就是把這個會議討論完那剛剛講就是說當然你們這個很重要的一個角色包括高雄市政府"},{"start":15428.163,"end":15456.041,"text":"那因為這個東西我們可以規劃設計但後面要有人去維運跟移運那所以這個東西就是我們在22號的時候看怎麼去進行這件事情那你們提前沒有跟市政府有任何的接觸嗎目前還沒有但是就是我們希望就是22號大家有一個至少有一個下一步要做的一些事情那我們希望能夠盡早能拿那個就是說大家能夠同意以後再看怎麼樣進行下一步"},{"start":15456.101,"end":15461.943,"text":"我是這樣建議啦就是說我們其實做事情主動跟被動那個差距就很大"},{"start":15463.169,"end":15487.683,"text":"那數位發展部這裡就是說基本上你們的職責不是設硬體嘛所以你會覺得說這個好像不是我們數位發展部的業務但是呢這又是數位發展部將來要發展的重要的基礎的建設關鍵的基礎設施所以這個部分我認為說我們數位發展部應該主動一點是不是請市長跟市府那邊聯絡一下"},{"start":15489.904,"end":15508.089,"text":"彼此之間溝通一下交流一下意見那也許他想到的話我們想到有彼此沒有想到的地方那如果正好在談的時候就可以先去做一個初步的互相的了解那你這樣子去開會的時候才會有效率要不然去再問啊問一問又沒有準備啊沒有準備到時候又拉倒"},{"start":15508.829,"end":15536.172,"text":"那就很可惜所以是不是部長可以跟市長建議一下就是說先做一個那個那叫做先期作業嘛所以你要開會之前先做一個先期作業這個馬上會進行好對不對那讓彼此多一點了解其實數位數位數化部這邊有經費可以協助他們其實地方政府最怕的就是沒有經費啦他們其實人啦意願啦其實都蠻高的但是他們就是最怕就是沒有經費"},{"start":15537.273,"end":15551.609,"text":"阿如果這個部分可以讓他們心裡有個底﹖或者是他們在做這個規劃的時候可以瞭解數﹖發布將來整體的這些連接的配套大概是怎麼樣那他要提出這個計畫也比較能夠match我們的計畫嘛對"},{"start":15552.89,"end":15579.867,"text":"報告委員就是這裡面還包括我們要再額外去爭取經費因為這個金額跟剛剛講那個是不一樣的工作所以我們會跟高雄市政府討論然後看怎麼去爭取更多經費對所以你看喔那個部長你看我看這個書面我們就看到海嵐站那你又說不是這個經費你懂我意思嗎那我們突然看到你寫的這個預算有關於海嵐站的經費我們就會覺得這很好啊"},{"start":15580.347,"end":15597.945,"text":"那你現在又不能使用在這個海嵐站上那他是使用在哪裡委員可能誤會這是海嵐站有海嵐站補助的經費那是數位港剛剛委員我們一直討論是數位港跟高雄市政府這部分的不管是可行性評估還是未來的建置這我們還另外再爭取"},{"start":15598.605,"end":15623.551,"text":"對所以我是建議啦就是說市長可以撥個時間先彼此的了解啦你看你這樣子寫恐怕市政委員會看他說欸這個好像可以啊對不對但是你的想法又跟實際上的不一樣那他要寫計畫的時候總是要媚取我們國家的方向這樣子他寫計畫才會跟我們一致嘛那你讓市府跟數位部數發部能夠先有一致的想法"},{"start":15623.891,"end":15651.542,"text":"那也許彼此在寫計畫或彼此在規劃這個配套的時候就會更完整嘛好不好好這個沒問題好這個拜託這個是我們非常重大的建設希望說務必要完成啦好雖然不是你們負責的業務但是這個將來跟你們所有的業務都有很重大的相關你今天沒有push這個完成後面很多事情都不能做好所以希望說我們數發部可以主動一點好不好好來把這件事情完成好好謝謝謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":15654.124,"end":15681.625,"text":"好謝謝許智傑委員接下來邀請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在現場接下來邀請王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員不在現場接下來邀請高金樹梅委員高金樹梅委員高金樹梅委員高金樹梅委員不在現場接下來邀請陳培宇委員"},{"start":15688.464,"end":15690.59,"text":"好謝謝主席那有請部長謝謝請黃部長"},{"start":15699.261,"end":15717.978,"text":"好 謝謝部長 部長武安幾個問題跟您討論第一個其實就是我們在我主要在教育文化委員會那我們非常關心在AI這個時代的發展趨勢底下其實在大學的招生都已經出現了非常多的困難當然這個我們在教育文化委員會要解決可是想要跟您請教其實數發部長期以來都有推動數位T大使"},{"start":15720.76,"end":15736.316,"text":"那這個TDAS的部分呢其實協助了非常多非相關科系的大學畢業生他們投入相關的增能的領域然後進而進入職場然後跟產業有第一線的合作我一直認為這個計畫其實不僅是平衡了所謂科系的發展"},{"start":15736.957,"end":15757.267,"text":"其實也協助了年輕人他們在離開大學之後還有其他場域的嘗試的可能性但是我目前想要問一下部長您在這個計畫上您接任部長之後您有沒有回去盤點這個計畫有沒有更可以精進的地方或是更可以調整的地方來自於產業的聲音或者是來自過去歷屆數位踢大使他們給你們的回饋你們有做過相關的會議討論嗎"},{"start":15760.769,"end":15782.829,"text":"報告委員那個TDAS的確是一個很好的idea 是是那我們當然希望能夠擴大跟繼續辦理 是那當然這裡面的精進或者是說下一期那個是不是請署長說明一下或者是後續的之前的很多經驗的整理我覺得對於後續的推動非常重要部長沒關係如果"},{"start":15784.397,"end":15801.037,"text":"部長這樣好了沒關係如果今天沒有準備相關資料我們後續辦公室會再跟書發部討論好不好因為確實這也是跟我第二個題目有關確實有非常多的中小企業部長你也知道台灣的5人以下的中小企業可能佔全台灣的比例佔80%到90%"},{"start":15802.859,"end":15819.894,"text":"所以在面對AI時代的數位轉型我必須要說我相信部長你也知道其實有很多中小企業現在非常非常的焦慮他們可能在前一個前一波的數位轉型就還來不及跟上那在面對AI這件事情他們可能"},{"start":15820.334,"end":15820.534,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":15850.106,"end":15869.484,"text":"也就是說我們看到數發部可能有意識到這個人才匱乏的問題所以我們幫產業補足了人力但是說實話這個情況其實越來越嚴重可能我們原本的數位替代大使根本還來不及也不夠那我要拜託數發部可不可以更加積極在協助中小企業面臨這個AI轉型的部分數發部你們的角色會是什麼"},{"start":15870.264,"end":15898.489,"text":"報告委員我們現在有幾個Program像雲市集雲平台就是幫助中小企業能夠很快的去用一些AI的技術那當然我們還有一些補助案子就是一樣在那人才培育我們也這個有些訓練的Program包括剛剛講就是除了T大使我們有從就從高中一路上去都有這樣來來配合跟像我們有些訓練機構像支撐會這些都有在做這樣的一些人才訓練"},{"start":15899.301,"end":15924.07,"text":"那細節的話是不是請署長再補充好那沒關係部長因為細節齁我時間有限啦齁我的我的是外委會我只有4加1那我想要講其實有更多的細節其實剛剛聽起來可能還有更多跟業界的溝通還是有更多的細節可以調整因為對於業界來說他們尤其是我舉我舉我們最近聽到非常多產業的故事為例喔他們可能是來自過去傳統的所謂工具機產業或者是設備商產業"},{"start":15928.231,"end":15950.757,"text":"他們知道要跟上AI他們也都看過那個黃仁勳示範那個機器人手臂啊他們也知道設備跟AI晶片結合絕對是下一個時代趨勢但是不管是資金的匱乏人才的不足或者是相關設備原本就不足他們很多的焦慮那我認為數發部應該有更多積極的角色那怎麼樣跟經濟部跨部會合作真的去聽到產業的困境焦慮跟匱乏"},{"start":15954.298,"end":15966.851,"text":"然後由速發部協同經濟部給予更積極的鼓勵跟補助也好人才培訓也好或是透過法人組織透過好的計畫透過好的補助甚至還有業界朋友跟我們建議臺灣有很棒的電腦展對嗎那像去年黃仁軒來還造成轟動"},{"start":15971.275,"end":15986.142,"text":"那可是他們看到另外一個困境可能在電腦展上面所有展示這些軟硬的廠商都還不夠了解台灣中小企業的需求台灣有沒有機會創造一個新的平台例如說軟硬體整合都是本土廠商的平台的展然後讓這個展呢"},{"start":15987.022,"end":16005.503,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":16005.903,"end":16019.839,"text":"這個展我想這個我們再跟經濟部討論那我們市面上在很多展我們有所謂的我們素餐室有些館那我們在館裡面可以看怎麼樣去協助我剛剛講的這個委員講的這些廠商能夠至少在我們這些館能夠有些展示對"},{"start":16020.52,"end":16044.1,"text":"因為我當然知道這些中小企業絕對主管機關是經濟部啦可是在透過寫就像如同部長您說的你們有設很多的館我相信你們有很多的業務想要推展到第一線更多的基層的產業那這些他們如何聽懂你們想要告訴他們的你們所想要提供的我相信你們已經有準備了但是如何approach到這些人我覺得這個是未來數位部非常重要的工作好嗎"},{"start":16044.781,"end":16045.322,"text":"謝謝陳培宇委員"},{"start":16058.122,"end":16077.656,"text":"登記質詢委員均已發言完畢做以下決定報告及詢答完畢二、委員許智傑所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部盡數以書面答覆"},{"start":16078.416,"end":16094.63,"text":"一百一十四年度資通安全署數位產業署單位預算審查報告及詢答完畢令則其進行處理委員預算提案於12月3日星期二中午12點截止收件本次會議到此結束現在散會"},{"start":16109.823,"end":16119.136,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":16131.257,"end":16131.437,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"}]}},{"id":"16256","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16256","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db161a8535b05d3ed30f9a65472a0a5ac3edb79b8bfb08e79983338b0b78da97e75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:30:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:56:00+08:00","duration":15914,"影片長度":"04:25:14","委員發言時間":"08:30:46 - 12:56:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":249.86534375000002,"end":250.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1862.20409375,"end":1864.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":1865.42721875,"end":1867.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1868.97096875,"end":1873.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1873.6453437500002,"end":1873.6622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1874.59034375,"end":1882.5722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1882.9265937500002,"end":1888.7484687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1889.0522187500003,"end":1891.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1891.8365937500002,"end":1898.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1898.5865937500002,"end":1901.6578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1902.01221875,"end":1908.8297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1909.2178437500002,"end":1914.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1914.6009687500002,"end":1915.2928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1915.5965937500002,"end":1923.6122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1924.08471875,"end":1930.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1931.40846875,"end":1940.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1941.4659687500002,"end":1942.2084687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1942.78221875,"end":1948.9415937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1949.5659687500001,"end":1950.1565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1950.3253437500002,"end":1955.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1955.7928437500002,"end":1966.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1966.9134687500002,"end":1971.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1972.5497187500002,"end":1977.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1977.8822187500002,"end":1981.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1982.1178437500002,"end":1988.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1992.27659375,"end":1992.8334687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":1993.6772187500003,"end":1994.4534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1995.0103437500002,"end":1998.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":1999.4822187500001,"end":2001.6759687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2003.12721875,"end":2007.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2009.16846875,"end":2015.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2016.2559687500002,"end":2019.3947187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2019.9178437500002,"end":2021.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2021.7740937500002,"end":2034.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2034.3797187500002,"end":2037.6365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2038.7334687500002,"end":2046.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2046.3440937500002,"end":2054.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2054.2584687500002,"end":2062.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2062.7803437500006,"end":2067.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2067.67409375,"end":2075.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2075.82471875,"end":2090.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2094.69096875,"end":2094.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2094.7078437500004,"end":2098.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2099.2809687500003,"end":2120.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2120.18909375,"end":2122.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2124.0534687500003,"end":2126.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2128.01909375,"end":2130.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2131.6472187500003,"end":2132.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2132.9803437500004,"end":2135.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2138.19471875,"end":2142.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2142.6328437500006,"end":2143.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2143.98284375,"end":2146.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2147.0372187500006,"end":2149.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2150.2097187500003,"end":2152.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2153.24721875,"end":2155.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2155.8797187500004,"end":2159.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2159.71034375,"end":2161.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2162.83221875,"end":2167.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2168.92409375,"end":2173.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2174.3240937500004,"end":2180.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2181.7490937500006,"end":2187.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2188.81971875,"end":2189.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2190.1190937500005,"end":2192.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2193.93284375,"end":2196.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2197.67909375,"end":2201.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2202.5897187500004,"end":2203.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2204.29409375,"end":2205.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2205.34034375,"end":2209.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2210.38596875,"end":2211.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2212.2928437500004,"end":2212.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2217.55784375,"end":2217.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2217.9628437500005,"end":2223.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2224.81409375,"end":2226.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2228.34096875,"end":2233.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2244.2372187500005,"end":2385.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2386.13909375,"end":2523.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":2523.85596875,"end":2584.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2591.6259687500005,"end":2592.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2593.8365937500002,"end":2595.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2595.99659375,"end":2596.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2596.11471875,"end":2600.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2608.04534375,"end":2612.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2613.1247187500003,"end":2753.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2753.82846875,"end":2765.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2765.77596875,"end":2782.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":2786.56596875,"end":2789.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2796.3534687500005,"end":2815.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2815.60784375,"end":2860.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2861.0690937500003,"end":2862.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2863.0772187500006,"end":2876.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2877.45471875,"end":2885.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2893.23284375,"end":2899.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2911.7109687500006,"end":2915.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2915.4403437500005,"end":2916.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2916.72284375,"end":2917.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2917.56659375,"end":2940.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2940.2803437500006,"end":2943.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2945.8153437500005,"end":2948.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2948.68409375,"end":2970.9590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2971.4822187500004,"end":2972.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2973.32159375,"end":2982.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2985.5897187500004,"end":3009.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3010.3115937500006,"end":3014.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3013.4503437500007,"end":3013.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3014.7159687500007,"end":3025.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3025.4315937500005,"end":3047.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3047.7403437500006,"end":3058.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3058.5234687500006,"end":3061.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3061.8815937500003,"end":3065.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3066.15096875,"end":3076.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3076.6472187500003,"end":3078.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3078.8409687500007,"end":3093.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3094.23096875,"end":3095.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3095.24346875,"end":3127.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3128.50409375,"end":3154.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3154.7109687500006,"end":3169.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3169.62846875,"end":3182.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3183.01034375,"end":3208.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3209.40284375,"end":3214.1953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3214.7353437500005,"end":3233.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3233.63534375,"end":3270.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3271.35096875,"end":3276.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3277.51034375,"end":3279.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3280.1765937500004,"end":3284.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3284.5978437500007,"end":3285.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3285.32346875,"end":3300.6290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3300.93284375,"end":3301.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3302.21534375,"end":3302.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3303.41346875,"end":3304.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3304.98284375,"end":3306.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3306.8222187500005,"end":3309.1847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3309.3534687500005,"end":3310.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3310.29846875,"end":3317.9259687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3318.24659375,"end":3324.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3325.1990937500004,"end":3350.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3350.9334687500004,"end":3365.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3366.5428437500004,"end":3389.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3390.87659375,"end":3392.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3392.4628437500005,"end":3394.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3394.7578437500006,"end":3400.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3400.81596875,"end":3430.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3430.6003437500003,"end":3432.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3432.86159375,"end":3433.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3433.9922187500006,"end":3435.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3435.4772187500002,"end":3501.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3501.7284687500005,"end":3504.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3504.4959687500004,"end":3534.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3534.78659375,"end":3535.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3535.7653437500003,"end":3544.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3544.6922187500004,"end":3546.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3547.2234687500004,"end":3552.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3552.8934687500005,"end":3557.5509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3558.0065937500003,"end":3577.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3578.3409687500007,"end":3579.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3579.7584687500002,"end":3581.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3581.5134687500004,"end":3591.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3591.92534375,"end":3597.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3597.6628437500003,"end":3608.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3608.4628437500005,"end":3613.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3613.5253437500005,"end":3627.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3627.7509687500005,"end":3637.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3637.84221875,"end":3640.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3640.9303437500002,"end":3665.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3666.2597187500005,"end":3675.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3675.2878437500003,"end":3679.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3680.08034375,"end":3685.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3685.9022187500004,"end":3687.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3687.8428437500006,"end":3691.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3691.9265937500004,"end":3696.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3696.53346875,"end":3704.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3704.8865937500004,"end":3725.1534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3725.3053437500002,"end":3725.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3726.48659375,"end":3790.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3790.86471875,"end":3815.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3816.2109687500006,"end":3819.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3820.58159375,"end":3835.9884687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3837.22034375,"end":3877.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3877.3828437500006,"end":3879.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3879.3065937500005,"end":3909.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3911.2509687500005,"end":3918.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3919.35096875,"end":3937.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3937.3397187500004,"end":3952.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3952.91534375,"end":3980.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3980.8434687500003,"end":4013.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4014.7284687500005,"end":4028.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4029.52784375,"end":4034.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4034.33721875,"end":4074.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4074.6178437500002,"end":4082.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4082.97096875,"end":4083.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4083.81471875,"end":4095.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4095.8465937500005,"end":4107.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4107.6590937500005,"end":4134.456593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4134.96284375,"end":4135.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4135.80659375,"end":4137.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4137.71346875,"end":4153.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4153.66034375,"end":4155.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4156.22534375,"end":4158.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4158.77346875,"end":4176.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4176.86346875,"end":4193.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4195.4090937500005,"end":4228.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4228.36596875,"end":4229.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4230.509093750001,"end":4233.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4234.356593750001,"end":4235.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4236.06096875,"end":4249.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4249.69596875,"end":4261.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4261.7615937499995,"end":4262.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4263.0272187499995,"end":4275.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4275.43034375,"end":4278.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4278.737843749999,"end":4297.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4297.587218750001,"end":4317.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4322.3934687500005,"end":4322.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4323.591593749999,"end":4332.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4332.889718750001,"end":4342.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4342.964093750001,"end":4347.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4350.456593749999,"end":4351.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4351.452218750001,"end":4352.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4359.0965937500005,"end":4361.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4359.67034375,"end":4359.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4359.974093750001,"end":4360.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4360.024718750001,"end":4360.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4360.311593750001,"end":4360.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4361.69534375,"end":4366.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4367.280968749999,"end":4369.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4370.200343750001,"end":4372.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4372.83284375,"end":4376.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4377.2372187500005,"end":4382.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4382.9072187500005,"end":4388.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4388.340968750001,"end":4388.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4388.54346875,"end":4389.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4390.23096875,"end":4394.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4395.61409375,"end":4405.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4406.54909375,"end":4408.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4409.519093749999,"end":4411.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4412.13471875,"end":4413.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4413.687218749999,"end":4419.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4420.724093750001,"end":4424.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4425.044093750001,"end":4427.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4427.25471875,"end":4429.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4429.56659375,"end":4432.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4432.75596875,"end":4435.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4435.590968750001,"end":4444.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4445.39534375,"end":4446.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4447.60596875,"end":4453.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4454.153468750001,"end":4455.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4456.00971875,"end":4460.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4461.25784375,"end":4467.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4468.260968750001,"end":4480.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4481.08596875,"end":4483.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4485.05159375,"end":4485.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4485.270968750001,"end":4487.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4488.00471875,"end":4489.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4489.69221875,"end":4490.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4491.34596875,"end":4492.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4493.100968750001,"end":4493.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4494.38346875,"end":4509.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4494.788468750001,"end":4497.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4508.153468750001,"end":4541.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4509.30096875,"end":4509.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4512.15284375,"end":4512.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4512.405968749999,"end":4512.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4513.23284375,"end":4513.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4513.36784375,"end":4513.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4513.60409375,"end":4513.722218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4522.64909375,"end":4522.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4522.9697187500005,"end":4523.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4524.48846875,"end":4525.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4537.75221875,"end":4540.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4541.515343749999,"end":4545.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4546.37534375,"end":4547.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4547.48909375,"end":4556.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4553.88471875,"end":4556.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4556.16284375,"end":4560.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4560.58409375,"end":4563.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4563.43596875,"end":4567.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4567.452218750001,"end":4571.519093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4571.805968750001,"end":4615.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4616.001593749999,"end":4618.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4618.9715937500005,"end":4621.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4621.857218749999,"end":4627.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4627.5947187500005,"end":4645.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4646.17409375,"end":4655.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4655.50596875,"end":4657.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4657.42971875,"end":4657.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4657.46346875,"end":4658.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4657.85159375,"end":4657.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4657.868468750001,"end":4661.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4658.475968750001,"end":4658.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4660.5009687500005,"end":4672.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4670.237843749999,"end":4675.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4675.84034375,"end":4685.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4683.19784375,"end":4685.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4686.977843750001,"end":4688.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4688.96909375,"end":4694.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4694.520968750001,"end":4696.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4697.811593750001,"end":4700.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4699.347218749999,"end":4711.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4710.11346875,"end":4714.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4714.770968750001,"end":4715.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4716.171593749999,"end":4724.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4716.272843750001,"end":4718.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4724.845343749999,"end":4747.626593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4747.964093750001,"end":4750.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4750.731593750001,"end":4751.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4752.09846875,"end":4788.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4783.671593749999,"end":4785.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4785.966593749999,"end":4787.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4787.02971875,"end":4788.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4789.020968750001,"end":4792.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4793.22284375,"end":4799.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4798.774718750001,"end":4809.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4803.34784375,"end":4809.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4810.350968750001,"end":4825.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4825.84221875,"end":4847.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4842.7509687500005,"end":4842.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":4842.970343749999,"end":4843.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4843.155968749999,"end":4843.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4847.69534375,"end":4851.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4852.167218750001,"end":4856.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4857.34784375,"end":4857.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4858.444718750001,"end":4861.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4862.12346875,"end":4863.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4863.96284375,"end":4867.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4867.725968750001,"end":4878.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4879.31909375,"end":4903.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4904.007218750001,"end":4919.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4919.852843750001,"end":4951.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4952.48909375,"end":4963.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4964.26784375,"end":4975.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4975.4559687500005,"end":4980.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4975.489718750001,"end":4977.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4979.6747187500005,"end":4983.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4981.868468750001,"end":4982.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4983.8934687500005,"end":4985.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4985.44596875,"end":4994.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":4991.45346875,"end":5001.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4999.28346875,"end":5003.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5004.80159375,"end":5008.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5007.788468750001,"end":5009.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5009.2059687500005,"end":5012.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5013.10409375,"end":5014.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5015.145968750001,"end":5018.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5019.9384687500005,"end":5022.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5022.503468750001,"end":5023.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5024.241593750001,"end":5025.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5026.70534375,"end":5032.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5032.493468750001,"end":5033.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5033.944718750001,"end":5046.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5047.495343750001,"end":5050.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5050.769093750001,"end":5053.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5053.65471875,"end":5062.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5062.4803437499995,"end":5066.142218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5066.5809687500005,"end":5067.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5067.880343750001,"end":5068.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5069.702843749999,"end":5070.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5071.23846875,"end":5074.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5074.815968750001,"end":5074.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5074.83284375,"end":5078.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5083.55721875,"end":5085.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5089.733468750001,"end":5091.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5091.555968750001,"end":5092.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5093.192843750001,"end":5093.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5098.13721875,"end":5107.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5101.309718750001,"end":5101.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5101.343468749999,"end":5101.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5101.42784375,"end":5101.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5107.671593749999,"end":5112.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5112.71721875,"end":5112.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5112.86909375,"end":5113.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5113.47659375,"end":5128.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5129.27159375,"end":5131.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5132.342843750001,"end":5132.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5132.35971875,"end":5137.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5137.9959687499995,"end":5143.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5138.468468749999,"end":5138.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5144.425343750001,"end":5151.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5150.095343749999,"end":5151.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5151.58034375,"end":5152.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5152.28909375,"end":5152.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5153.03159375,"end":5158.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5158.9715937500005,"end":5163.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5161.857218749999,"end":5172.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5171.796593749999,"end":5172.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5172.404093749999,"end":5172.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5172.454718749999,"end":5172.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5172.4715937500005,"end":5172.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5172.842843750001,"end":5172.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5172.977843750001,"end":5173.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5173.88909375,"end":5175.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5175.05346875,"end":5175.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5175.5428437499995,"end":5191.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5184.368468750001,"end":5184.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5184.739718750001,"end":5184.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5184.8240937499995,"end":5185.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5185.7353437500005,"end":5185.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5186.41034375,"end":5186.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5189.54909375,"end":5189.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5189.565968750001,"end":5189.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5191.60784375,"end":5225.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5195.843468749999,"end":5195.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5195.91096875,"end":5196.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5196.11346875,"end":5196.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5196.417218750001,"end":5196.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5196.501593749999,"end":5196.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5196.61971875,"end":5196.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5196.75471875,"end":5196.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5221.020968750001,"end":5221.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5225.6278437500005,"end":5238.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5239.448468750001,"end":5240.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5240.8153437500005,"end":5242.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5241.169718749999,"end":5241.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5242.97534375,"end":5262.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5261.11596875,"end":5263.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5263.64721875,"end":5279.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5263.66409375,"end":5264.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5280.01596875,"end":5281.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5281.97346875,"end":5311.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5311.92659375,"end":5326.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5322.2372187500005,"end":5325.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5325.409718750001,"end":5347.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5327.36721875,"end":5328.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5329.45971875,"end":5329.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5331.40034375,"end":5331.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5347.583468750001,"end":5357.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5357.708468750001,"end":5362.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5362.028468750001,"end":5362.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5362.38284375,"end":5362.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5362.55159375,"end":5362.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5362.56846875,"end":5398.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5362.585343750001,"end":5366.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5384.2528437500005,"end":5384.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5397.921593749999,"end":5398.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5398.46159375,"end":5398.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5398.93409375,"end":5422.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5416.399718750001,"end":5416.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5418.07034375,"end":5418.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5418.137843750001,"end":5418.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5418.171593749999,"end":5418.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5422.55909375,"end":5426.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5426.03534375,"end":5447.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5447.2978437500005,"end":5450.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5450.622218750001,"end":5457.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5457.72659375,"end":5460.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5461.08471875,"end":5481.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5463.042218750001,"end":5464.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5481.85784375,"end":5485.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5485.84034375,"end":5489.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5489.805968750001,"end":5495.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5495.35784375,"end":5498.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5498.142218749999,"end":5538.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5501.854718750001,"end":5502.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5524.484093749999,"end":5525.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5536.769093750001,"end":5536.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5538.034718750001,"end":5538.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5538.557843750001,"end":5538.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5538.878468750001,"end":5541.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5542.067843750001,"end":5547.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5547.417218750001,"end":5548.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5548.497218750001,"end":5554.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5555.17971875,"end":5579.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5558.08221875,"end":5558.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5559.71909375,"end":5561.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5579.142218749999,"end":5592.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5582.483468750001,"end":5582.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5583.68159375,"end":5584.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5584.08659375,"end":5584.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5585.97659375,"end":5586.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5592.01784375,"end":5595.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5595.71346875,"end":5595.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5595.831593750001,"end":5595.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5595.84846875,"end":5595.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5595.882218750001,"end":5596.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5596.253468750001,"end":5601.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5599.965968750001,"end":5604.032843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5603.239718750001,"end":5605.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5606.07471875,"end":5624.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5624.36721875,"end":5636.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5630.07096875,"end":5630.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5630.12159375,"end":5630.189093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5636.432843750001,"end":5667.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5667.0272187499995,"end":5668.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5668.56284375,"end":5684.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5684.91471875,"end":5687.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5687.749718749999,"end":5690.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5689.23471875,"end":5692.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5691.597218750001,"end":5701.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5694.179093750001,"end":5694.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5694.98909375,"end":5695.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5695.37721875,"end":5697.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5700.2372187500005,"end":5708.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5707.206593750001,"end":5707.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5707.864718750001,"end":5712.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5709.5184687500005,"end":5709.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5711.610968749999,"end":5720.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5720.4872187500005,"end":5725.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5724.72284375,"end":5724.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5724.8240937499995,"end":5724.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5728.958468750001,"end":5734.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5754.034718750001,"end":5755.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5755.14846875,"end":5755.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5762.759093750001,"end":5764.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5765.661593750001,"end":5769.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5770.36971875,"end":5772.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5772.34409375,"end":5777.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5778.554093750001,"end":5780.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5780.612843750001,"end":5787.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5787.700343750001,"end":5792.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5792.374718749999,"end":5794.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5794.38284375,"end":5798.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5798.196593750001,"end":5802.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5803.022843750001,"end":5807.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5809.114718750001,"end":5810.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5810.8865937499995,"end":5813.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5813.21534375,"end":5821.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5820.792218750001,"end":5827.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5827.60971875,"end":5832.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5831.760968750001,"end":5834.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5834.68034375,"end":5838.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5838.67971875,"end":5845.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5845.19346875,"end":5848.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5848.9228437500005,"end":5850.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5850.087218750001,"end":5854.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5850.1209687499995,"end":5850.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5854.7615937499995,"end":5854.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5854.997843749999,"end":5858.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5855.149718750001,"end":5855.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5858.49096875,"end":5858.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5859.7059687500005,"end":5861.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5862.2372187500005,"end":5863.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5864.751593750001,"end":5865.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5866.50659375,"end":5867.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5867.95784375,"end":5870.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5870.82659375,"end":5871.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5871.974093750001,"end":5873.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5873.948468750001,"end":5876.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5877.1209687499995,"end":5880.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5880.34409375,"end":5881.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5882.4872187500005,"end":5883.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5884.107218749999,"end":5886.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5887.14471875,"end":5890.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5890.452218750001,"end":5891.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5892.7978437500005,"end":5893.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5893.52346875,"end":5894.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5894.8397187499995,"end":5897.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5897.4384687500005,"end":5897.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5897.843468749999,"end":5898.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5898.029093749999,"end":5898.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5898.0965937500005,"end":5899.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5898.11346875,"end":5898.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5898.80534375,"end":5912.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5899.952843749999,"end":5899.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5913.35159375,"end":5915.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5915.73096875,"end":5917.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5917.9247187500005,"end":5921.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5922.464093750001,"end":5923.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5923.544093750001,"end":5926.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5927.07096875,"end":5934.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5934.7997187500005,"end":5949.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5939.372843749999,"end":5940.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5950.544093750001,"end":5952.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5953.868468750001,"end":5955.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5955.80909375,"end":5957.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5957.44596875,"end":5960.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5960.905343750001,"end":5963.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5963.048468750001,"end":5963.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5963.385968750001,"end":5967.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5963.45346875,"end":5975.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5975.35034375,"end":5981.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5980.395968750001,"end":5983.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5983.04534375,"end":5987.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5988.19221875,"end":5993.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5993.72721875,"end":5997.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5998.80659375,"end":6000.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6002.147843750001,"end":6003.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6004.763468749999,"end":6005.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6006.01221875,"end":6009.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6010.7372187500005,"end":6013.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6013.673468750001,"end":6019.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6019.680968750001,"end":6029.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6030.413468750001,"end":6033.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6034.0584687499995,"end":6037.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6037.585343750001,"end":6051.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6044.74034375,"end":6047.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6051.642218750001,"end":6056.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6056.468468749999,"end":6062.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6063.032843750001,"end":6063.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6064.28159375,"end":6065.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6065.952218750001,"end":6069.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6069.3778437500005,"end":6071.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6071.706593750001,"end":6072.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6073.05659375,"end":6073.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6073.93409375,"end":6078.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6078.94596875,"end":6083.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6083.046593749999,"end":6120.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6120.44159375,"end":6122.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6123.25971875,"end":6136.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6126.80346875,"end":6127.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6128.001593750001,"end":6130.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6130.27971875,"end":6130.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6131.5790937500005,"end":6132.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6132.507218750001,"end":6132.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6132.52409375,"end":6132.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6132.827843749999,"end":6132.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6134.0428437499995,"end":6134.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6134.1103437500005,"end":6134.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6137.384093750001,"end":6141.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6141.95721875,"end":6143.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6144.083468750001,"end":6145.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6145.75409375,"end":6149.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6150.20909375,"end":6155.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6150.225968750001,"end":6150.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6150.276593750001,"end":6151.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6151.964093750001,"end":6151.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6152.099093750001,"end":6154.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6156.16596875,"end":6156.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6157.43159375,"end":6159.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6159.67596875,"end":6160.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6160.65471875,"end":6161.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6161.86971875,"end":6163.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6163.776593750001,"end":6164.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6165.7509687500005,"end":6168.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6168.43409375,"end":6168.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6169.4803437499995,"end":6170.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6170.7459687499995,"end":6177.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6177.71534375,"end":6179.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6179.36909375,"end":6180.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6181.107218749999,"end":6183.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6183.452843749999,"end":6183.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6183.48659375,"end":6183.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6183.90846875,"end":6184.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6184.026593750001,"end":6184.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6184.110968750001,"end":6184.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6184.14471875,"end":6186.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6186.99659375,"end":6187.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6188.700968749999,"end":6189.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6190.74284375,"end":6191.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6192.43034375,"end":6195.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6195.16409375,"end":6200.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6201.44159375,"end":6203.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6203.753468750001,"end":6206.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6207.044093750001,"end":6210.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6211.769093750001,"end":6212.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6213.28784375,"end":6213.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6213.89534375,"end":6215.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6216.66284375,"end":6218.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6218.991593750001,"end":6219.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6220.37534375,"end":6221.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6222.14721875,"end":6225.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6225.30284375,"end":6227.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6228.01971875,"end":6231.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6231.85034375,"end":6235.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6236.372843749999,"end":6237.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6237.267218750001,"end":6237.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6239.27534375,"end":6241.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6241.38471875,"end":6241.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6241.84034375,"end":6243.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6243.038468750001,"end":6245.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6245.87346875,"end":6251.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6251.610968750001,"end":6253.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6253.28159375,"end":6259.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6259.69409375,"end":6265.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6265.583468750001,"end":6266.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6266.747843749999,"end":6266.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6266.78159375,"end":6266.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6266.849093750001,"end":6275.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6267.085343750001,"end":6267.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6267.10221875,"end":6267.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6267.49034375,"end":6267.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6272.31659375,"end":6272.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6272.4178437499995,"end":6272.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6274.915343750001,"end":6276.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6276.48471875,"end":6281.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6276.67034375,"end":6276.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6281.49659375,"end":6286.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6283.70721875,"end":6284.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6286.98096875,"end":6288.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6289.7822187500005,"end":6293.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6293.798468750001,"end":6295.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6296.02596875,"end":6296.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6297.038468750001,"end":6298.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6299.11409375,"end":6301.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6301.88159375,"end":6303.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6302.96159375,"end":6303.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6304.7840937500005,"end":6306.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6307.669718749999,"end":6309.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6307.686593750001,"end":6308.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6309.171593749999,"end":6318.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6309.23909375,"end":6310.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6317.50784375,"end":6322.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6322.94159375,"end":6324.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6324.67971875,"end":6325.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6325.37159375,"end":6327.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6327.784718750001,"end":6331.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6332.999093750001,"end":6337.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6339.00659375,"end":6340.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6341.4872187500005,"end":6344.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6345.554093750001,"end":6350.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6350.58284375,"end":6351.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6352.860968750001,"end":6353.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6354.19409375,"end":6356.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6357.2147187499995,"end":6365.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6365.16284375,"end":6368.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6368.470343750001,"end":6371.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6371.372843749999,"end":6371.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6372.7059687500005,"end":6375.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6376.94159375,"end":6381.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6382.08846875,"end":6382.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6383.03346875,"end":6384.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6385.716593749999,"end":6386.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6386.91471875,"end":6387.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6388.14659375,"end":6389.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6389.952218750001,"end":6392.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6392.16284375,"end":6393.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6394.542218750001,"end":6395.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6397.343468749999,"end":6399.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6400.161593750001,"end":6400.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6402.01784375,"end":6404.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6404.7684687500005,"end":6406.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6406.79346875,"end":6410.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6410.657843750001,"end":6412.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6412.581593750001,"end":6413.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6414.741593750001,"end":6415.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6416.2772187499995,"end":6418.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6418.8759687500005,"end":6421.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6422.03159375,"end":6427.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6427.22909375,"end":6429.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6429.4228437500005,"end":6450.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6450.34784375,"end":6451.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6452.102843750001,"end":6458.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6458.39721875,"end":6465.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6465.38346875,"end":6466.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6466.61534375,"end":6473.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6471.745343750001,"end":6474.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6475.71096875,"end":6481.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6480.0478437500005,"end":6484.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6483.878468750001,"end":6488.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6489.177218750001,"end":6494.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6494.54346875,"end":6496.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6494.560343749999,"end":6504.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6505.24221875,"end":6507.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6505.444718750001,"end":6505.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6506.22096875,"end":6512.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6512.987843750001,"end":6515.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6516.10971875,"end":6516.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6518.0165937500005,"end":6519.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6519.974093750001,"end":6522.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6520.59846875,"end":6530.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6529.84596875,"end":6535.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6536.106593750001,"end":6540.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6540.139718750001,"end":6541.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6542.26596875,"end":6546.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6547.581593750001,"end":6549.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6549.8934687500005,"end":6553.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6554.517218750001,"end":6555.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6556.812218749999,"end":6564.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6559.815968750001,"end":6560.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6561.19971875,"end":6567.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6567.645968750001,"end":6571.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6571.88159375,"end":6576.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6576.85971875,"end":6577.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6577.99034375,"end":6579.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6579.559718750001,"end":6580.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6580.909718750001,"end":6581.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6582.42846875,"end":6584.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6584.706593750001,"end":6585.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6584.82471875,"end":6584.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6585.0272187499995,"end":6585.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6585.21284375,"end":6585.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6585.702218750001,"end":6585.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6585.786593750001,"end":6585.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6585.98909375,"end":6586.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6586.37721875,"end":6586.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6586.69784375,"end":6600.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6600.974093750001,"end":6620.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6620.59971875,"end":6624.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6621.67971875,"end":6629.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6629.796593749999,"end":6632.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6632.513468749999,"end":6634.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6634.437218749999,"end":6634.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6634.538468750001,"end":6634.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6634.60596875,"end":6634.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6634.65659375,"end":6634.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6634.89284375,"end":6634.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6634.92659375,"end":6635.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6635.12909375,"end":6642.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6643.19534375,"end":6652.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6652.493468750001,"end":6659.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6652.98284375,"end":6656.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6656.96534375,"end":6657.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6657.01596875,"end":6657.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6657.977843750001,"end":6659.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6667.56284375,"end":6674.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6685.14659375,"end":6687.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6687.10409375,"end":6687.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6694.1747187500005,"end":6722.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6701.12721875,"end":6701.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6722.659718750001,"end":6726.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6726.608468750001,"end":6728.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6728.68409375,"end":6735.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6735.2822187500005,"end":6748.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6748.107218749999,"end":6748.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6748.343468749999,"end":6749.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6749.03534375,"end":6750.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6750.19971875,"end":6761.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6762.079718750001,"end":6762.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6762.974093750001,"end":6764.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6764.86409375,"end":6764.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6764.96534375,"end":6768.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6765.33659375,"end":6769.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6769.65659375,"end":6783.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6769.70721875,"end":6769.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6770.2303437499995,"end":6770.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6783.57846875,"end":6793.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6794.63159375,"end":6805.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6803.997218750001,"end":6819.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6819.0497187500005,"end":6819.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6819.2353437500005,"end":6819.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6819.33659375,"end":6820.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6821.31096875,"end":6824.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6824.87159375,"end":6825.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6826.491593750001,"end":6830.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6829.84971875,"end":6840.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6831.43596875,"end":6831.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6839.670968750001,"end":6840.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6840.126593750001,"end":6840.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6840.970343750001,"end":6849.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6850.3865937499995,"end":6851.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6851.02784375,"end":6852.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6852.44534375,"end":6852.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6853.069718750001,"end":6853.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6853.10346875,"end":6853.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6853.154093749999,"end":6856.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6853.7615937499995,"end":6853.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6856.74846875,"end":6861.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6861.7772187499995,"end":6865.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6865.47284375,"end":6865.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6865.962218750001,"end":6867.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6868.32471875,"end":6870.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6869.59034375,"end":6870.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6871.19346875,"end":6874.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6875.41221875,"end":6885.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6875.46284375,"end":6875.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6885.80721875,"end":6892.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6893.046593749999,"end":6911.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6913.38096875,"end":6914.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6919.75971875,"end":6920.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6921.126593750001,"end":6922.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6922.47659375,"end":6926.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6926.40846875,"end":6927.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6928.669718749999,"end":6933.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6934.32284375,"end":6934.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6935.419718749999,"end":6941.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6942.25409375,"end":6947.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6947.50221875,"end":6949.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6953.610968750001,"end":6961.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6959.905343750001,"end":6966.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6966.09846875,"end":6968.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6968.49471875,"end":6969.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6969.72659375,"end":6970.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6970.030343750001,"end":6971.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6972.561593750001,"end":6976.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6976.999718750001,"end":6989.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6977.03346875,"end":6977.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6977.06721875,"end":6977.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6990.128468750001,"end":6996.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6996.557843750001,"end":7006.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7006.14284375,"end":7006.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7006.395968750001,"end":7020.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7012.70721875,"end":7012.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7019.72721875,"end":7027.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7026.6122187500005,"end":7027.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7027.304093750001,"end":7047.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7047.925343750001,"end":7063.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7063.247843749999,"end":7065.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7065.374093750001,"end":7067.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7068.29346875,"end":7070.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7070.53784375,"end":7076.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7076.96721875,"end":7078.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7078.75596875,"end":7080.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7080.91596875,"end":7081.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7081.9959687499995,"end":7082.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7082.58659375,"end":7084.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7084.32471875,"end":7088.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7089.1678437499995,"end":7092.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7093.217843750001,"end":7115.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7095.39471875,"end":7096.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7096.10346875,"end":7096.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7115.796593750001,"end":7120.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7121.010968750001,"end":7132.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7133.17784375,"end":7133.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7134.359093750001,"end":7135.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7135.354718750001,"end":7149.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7149.02346875,"end":7155.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7155.80721875,"end":7158.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7158.54096875,"end":7172.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7162.540343750001,"end":7162.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7167.29909375,"end":7167.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7167.366593750001,"end":7167.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7167.40034375,"end":7167.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7173.036593750001,"end":7180.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7177.13721875,"end":7177.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7180.74846875,"end":7181.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7181.237843750001,"end":7181.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7181.96346875,"end":7210.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7211.69721875,"end":7212.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7213.46909375,"end":7224.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7225.3153437500005,"end":7229.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7229.21346875,"end":7247.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7246.915343750001,"end":7266.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7251.792218750001,"end":7252.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7266.270968750001,"end":7266.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7266.692843750001,"end":7267.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7274.96159375,"end":7276.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7284.934718750001,"end":7286.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7286.92596875,"end":7286.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7286.97659375,"end":7287.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7294.013468749999,"end":7294.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7294.84034375,"end":7300.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7299.885968750001,"end":7299.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7299.90284375,"end":7300.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7300.47659375,"end":7308.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7306.112843750001,"end":7306.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7309.55534375,"end":7312.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7312.60971875,"end":7313.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7314.01034375,"end":7323.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7323.34221875,"end":7323.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7323.81471875,"end":7362.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7363.3865937499995,"end":7389.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7386.57284375,"end":7391.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7391.382218750001,"end":7414.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7414.7372187500005,"end":7431.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7430.58284375,"end":7474.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7446.52971875,"end":7447.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7447.8290937500005,"end":7448.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7448.807843750001,"end":7449.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7449.0272187499995,"end":7449.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7449.0947187500005,"end":7449.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7459.169093750001,"end":7460.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7474.069718750001,"end":7474.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7474.66034375,"end":7496.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7483.23284375,"end":7483.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7483.6209687499995,"end":7483.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7497.222218750001,"end":7498.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7498.94346875,"end":7510.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7502.92596875,"end":7503.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7510.587218750001,"end":7517.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7517.7928437499995,"end":7521.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7521.218468750001,"end":7521.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7521.420968750001,"end":7532.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7532.59221875,"end":7538.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7537.907843750001,"end":7546.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7541.654093749999,"end":7544.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7544.72534375,"end":7545.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7546.37909375,"end":7565.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7564.1990937499995,"end":7603.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7587.48659375,"end":7587.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7596.63284375,"end":7596.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7603.8553437499995,"end":7608.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7608.411593750001,"end":7611.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7611.43221875,"end":7612.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7612.394093750001,"end":7616.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7616.055968750001,"end":7642.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7625.03346875,"end":7625.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7625.97846875,"end":7626.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7626.029093749999,"end":7626.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7628.86409375,"end":7628.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7628.88096875,"end":7629.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7642.026593750001,"end":7642.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7642.684718750001,"end":7645.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7645.6884687500005,"end":7646.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7646.8865937499995,"end":7669.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7648.94534375,"end":7649.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7670.12346875,"end":7677.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7678.37534375,"end":7686.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7686.62721875,"end":7689.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7690.18784375,"end":7691.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7690.71096875,"end":7702.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7691.79096875,"end":7692.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7701.3759687500005,"end":7704.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7702.354718750001,"end":7704.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7704.6834687499995,"end":7711.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7711.65284375,"end":7714.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7712.46284375,"end":7712.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7714.52159375,"end":7745.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7726.89096875,"end":7727.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7731.39659375,"end":7731.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7731.835343750001,"end":7731.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7731.85221875,"end":7731.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7737.99471875,"end":7738.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7745.6053437499995,"end":7747.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7747.259093750001,"end":7752.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7754.009093750001,"end":7755.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7756.1522187499995,"end":7765.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7766.2772187499995,"end":7769.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7769.68596875,"end":7773.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7774.680968750001,"end":7777.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7777.3134687500005,"end":7781.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7781.751593750001,"end":7786.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7787.06721875,"end":7787.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7788.6365937499995,"end":7789.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7789.9697187500005,"end":7816.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7803.790343750001,"end":7803.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7803.925343750001,"end":7803.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7803.975968750001,"end":7804.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7813.780343750001,"end":7813.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7816.7840937500005,"end":7824.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7824.749093750001,"end":7825.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7825.019093750001,"end":7856.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7857.638468749999,"end":7862.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7862.97096875,"end":7864.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7865.282843750001,"end":7873.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7874.429093750001,"end":7876.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7876.94346875,"end":7884.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7884.452843750001,"end":7895.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7896.34971875,"end":7899.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7899.96096875,"end":7912.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7913.1572187500005,"end":7916.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7914.085343750001,"end":7919.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7918.94534375,"end":7931.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7924.530968750001,"end":7925.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7930.015343750001,"end":7932.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7932.884093750001,"end":7955.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7955.59784375,"end":7963.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7963.66409375,"end":7974.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7970.73471875,"end":7971.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7972.304093750001,"end":7972.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7973.434718750001,"end":7976.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7976.55659375,"end":7981.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7980.67409375,"end":7994.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7995.034718750001,"end":7996.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7997.68409375,"end":8006.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8006.847218750001,"end":8016.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8016.7528437500005,"end":8020.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8021.427218750001,"end":8029.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8027.16471875,"end":8027.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8027.26596875,"end":8027.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8029.915343750001,"end":8034.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8035.214093750001,"end":8041.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8040.63096875,"end":8042.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8042.385968750001,"end":8044.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8044.107218750001,"end":8045.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8045.997218750001,"end":8052.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8052.780968750001,"end":8053.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8053.540343750001,"end":8057.387843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8058.029093750001,"end":8059.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8058.14721875,"end":8058.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8059.581593750001,"end":8062.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8060.30721875,"end":8060.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8060.999093750001,"end":8061.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8062.78784375,"end":8075.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8073.4022187499995,"end":8074.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8075.1572187500005,"end":8080.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8076.76034375,"end":8077.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8079.3759687500005,"end":8080.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8081.0634687500005,"end":8090.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8088.62346875,"end":8089.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8091.23909375,"end":8102.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8102.764718750001,"end":8113.294718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8113.395968750001,"end":8123.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8121.52971875,"end":8127.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8126.524718750001,"end":8127.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8127.503468750001,"end":8131.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8130.3553437499995,"end":8130.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8131.2665937500005,"end":8132.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8138.21909375,"end":8139.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8509.85721875,"end":8512.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8524.909718750001,"end":8525.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8525.702843750001,"end":8526.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8527.12034375,"end":8527.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8535.13596875,"end":8536.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8537.70096875,"end":8539.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8539.742843750002,"end":8543.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8543.65784375,"end":8545.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8546.94846875,"end":8551.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8551.67346875,"end":8553.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8554.812218750001,"end":8557.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8557.832843750002,"end":8559.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8560.195343750001,"end":8561.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8561.44409375,"end":8567.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8562.38909375,"end":8562.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8568.19409375,"end":8572.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8573.15534375,"end":8576.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8576.85096875,"end":8579.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8580.546593750001,"end":8582.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.246593750002,"end":8584.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8585.625968750002,"end":8586.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8587.364093750002,"end":8588.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8589.000968750002,"end":8591.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8592.156593750002,"end":8597.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8597.691593750002,"end":8599.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8599.851593750001,"end":8604.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8604.82971875,"end":8605.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8606.196593750003,"end":8611.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8612.406593750002,"end":8613.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8614.80284375,"end":8617.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8618.262218750002,"end":8619.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8619.696593750003,"end":8620.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8621.67096875,"end":8622.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8623.493468750003,"end":8624.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8625.062843750002,"end":8626.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8627.070968750002,"end":8633.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8633.652218750001,"end":8635.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8635.238468750002,"end":8642.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8642.34284375,"end":8643.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8644.01346875,"end":8647.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8647.65846875,"end":8650.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8650.965968750003,"end":8652.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8652.957218750002,"end":8654.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8655.218468750001,"end":8655.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8656.062218750001,"end":8657.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8658.67784375,"end":8663.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8663.58846875,"end":8664.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8665.191593750002,"end":8671.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8671.53659375,"end":8672.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8672.363468750002,"end":8674.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8674.81034375,"end":8678.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8679.04596875,"end":8681.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8681.89784375,"end":8684.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8684.327843750001,"end":8684.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8685.30659375,"end":8686.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8686.72409375,"end":8688.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8689.440968750001,"end":8690.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8690.58846875,"end":8693.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8693.81159375,"end":8695.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8696.157218750002,"end":8699.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8699.97096875,"end":8703.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8706.434093750002,"end":8706.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8707.63221875,"end":8708.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8708.98221875,"end":8711.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8711.496593750002,"end":8717.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8717.79096875,"end":8727.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8728.050968750002,"end":8760.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8745.297218750002,"end":8746.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8760.805343750002,"end":8766.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8766.94784375,"end":8769.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8770.12034375,"end":8772.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8772.769718750002,"end":8774.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8774.69346875,"end":8779.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8779.45221875,"end":8786.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8787.012218750002,"end":8795.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8796.37784375,"end":8797.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8798.53784375,"end":8799.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8800.02284375,"end":8801.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8802.38534375,"end":8803.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8804.106593750003,"end":8804.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8805.49034375,"end":8806.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8807.17784375,"end":8807.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8808.679718750001,"end":8821.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8812.105343750001,"end":8812.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8812.122218750003,"end":8812.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8817.539093750001,"end":8818.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8821.335968750001,"end":8824.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8821.36971875,"end":8821.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8823.765968750002,"end":8843.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8844.30284375,"end":8852.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8852.95971875,"end":8861.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8859.86159375,"end":8863.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8863.72596875,"end":8864.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8864.75534375,"end":8866.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8866.78034375,"end":8869.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8870.442218750002,"end":8872.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8872.72034375,"end":8874.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8875.30221875,"end":8878.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8879.706593750001,"end":8880.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8880.48284375,"end":8881.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8882.153468750003,"end":8884.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8885.680343750002,"end":8887.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8887.95846875,"end":8890.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8890.45596875,"end":8896.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8897.45909375,"end":8897.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8898.15096875,"end":8911.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8911.95471875,"end":8913.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8913.878468750001,"end":8916.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8917.03409375,"end":8917.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8918.40096875,"end":8919.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8919.41346875,"end":8924.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8924.56034375,"end":8925.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8926.46721875,"end":8929.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8929.72409375,"end":8930.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8930.88846875,"end":8931.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8932.137218750002,"end":8933.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8933.52096875,"end":8934.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8935.259093750003,"end":8935.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8936.355968750002,"end":8938.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8938.58346875,"end":8939.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8940.13596875,"end":8942.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8942.785343750002,"end":8943.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8943.477218750002,"end":8947.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8947.72971875,"end":8952.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8953.21409375,"end":8954.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8955.120968750001,"end":8956.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8956.62284375,"end":8959.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8960.149718750003,"end":8964.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8964.824093750001,"end":8969.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8970.08909375,"end":8972.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8973.210968750001,"end":8973.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8973.91971875,"end":8975.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8976.484718750002,"end":8979.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8979.555968750003,"end":8983.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8984.36534375,"end":8988.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8988.027218750001,"end":8988.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8989.42784375,"end":8994.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8994.54096875,"end":9016.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9016.090343750002,"end":9058.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9054.902843750002,"end":9054.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9054.91971875,"end":9056.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9057.94034375,"end":9058.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9058.969718750002,"end":9068.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9067.086593750002,"end":9074.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9068.33534375,"end":9068.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9069.95534375,"end":9071.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9072.13221875,"end":9075.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9075.675968750002,"end":9085.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9077.71784375,"end":9078.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9085.969718750002,"end":9092.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9092.719718750002,"end":9093.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9093.968468750001,"end":9094.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9100.49909375,"end":9102.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9110.320343750001,"end":9111.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9112.176593750002,"end":9113.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9113.57721875,"end":9114.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9120.867218750001,"end":9121.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9121.57596875,"end":9122.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9122.38596875,"end":9122.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9122.75721875,"end":9139.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9139.007843750001,"end":9139.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9139.21034375,"end":9149.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9150.31409375,"end":9169.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9169.450343750003,"end":9171.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9172.065968750001,"end":9198.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9198.69471875,"end":9211.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9211.620968750001,"end":9217.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9218.10096875,"end":9220.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9220.26096875,"end":9222.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9223.754093750002,"end":9229.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9229.829093750002,"end":9231.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9231.246593750002,"end":9231.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9231.297218750002,"end":9233.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9233.625968750002,"end":9242.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9242.65409375,"end":9268.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9269.08034375,"end":9286.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9286.44471875,"end":9287.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9288.419093750003,"end":9291.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9292.03034375,"end":9307.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9308.11221875,"end":9317.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9317.359718750002,"end":9325.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9325.24034375,"end":9325.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9325.25721875,"end":9325.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9325.30784375,"end":9325.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9325.425968750002,"end":9328.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9327.653468750003,"end":9331.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9330.37034375,"end":9344.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9344.69721875,"end":9348.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9348.274718750003,"end":9351.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9352.08846875,"end":9353.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9353.860343750002,"end":9354.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9354.92346875,"end":9356.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9356.172218750002,"end":9356.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9356.93159375,"end":9365.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9365.453468750002,"end":9365.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9365.52096875,"end":9365.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9365.53784375,"end":9365.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9365.554718750001,"end":9365.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9365.622218750003,"end":9365.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9365.723468750002,"end":9367.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9365.75721875,"end":9367.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9368.406593750002,"end":9371.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9370.81971875,"end":9370.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9370.836593750002,"end":9371.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9371.528468750003,"end":9374.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9373.637843750003,"end":9374.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9374.903468750003,"end":9377.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9377.586593750002,"end":9377.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9377.75534375,"end":9384.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9384.015968750002,"end":9384.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9384.066593750002,"end":9391.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9384.08346875,"end":9384.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9391.812218750001,"end":9392.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9391.84596875,"end":9391.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9391.980968750002,"end":9394.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9394.59659375,"end":9396.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9396.90846875,"end":9397.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9397.17846875,"end":9402.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9402.29159375,"end":9402.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9402.76409375,"end":9406.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9406.88159375,"end":9411.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9411.960968750001,"end":9411.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9411.99471875,"end":9421.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9412.011593750001,"end":9412.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9412.652843750002,"end":9412.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9412.68659375,"end":9412.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9419.183468750001,"end":9421.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9421.782218750002,"end":9423.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9424.39784375,"end":9427.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9428.835968750001,"end":9429.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9429.76409375,"end":9433.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9434.320343750001,"end":9435.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9436.09221875,"end":9437.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9437.99909375,"end":9439.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9440.125343750002,"end":9446.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9447.21284375,"end":9448.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9448.562843750002,"end":9452.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9453.16971875,"end":9453.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9453.945968750002,"end":9454.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9454.70534375,"end":9456.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9456.54471875,"end":9461.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9462.41721875,"end":9463.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9463.750343750002,"end":9464.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9464.03721875,"end":9475.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9464.61096875,"end":9466.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9472.440968750001,"end":9474.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9475.69784375,"end":9486.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9485.33346875,"end":9486.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9486.953468750002,"end":9487.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9487.004093750002,"end":9487.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9487.155968750001,"end":9487.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9487.274093750002,"end":9488.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9488.40471875,"end":9488.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9488.45534375,"end":9488.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9488.97846875,"end":9489.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9490.14284375,"end":9492.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9493.14659375,"end":9496.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9496.63971875,"end":9500.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9500.655968750001,"end":9502.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9501.68534375,"end":9504.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9503.42346875,"end":9509.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9504.70596875,"end":9505.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9505.43159375,"end":9506.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9508.165343750003,"end":9508.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9508.249718750001,"end":9508.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9508.317218750002,"end":9508.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9509.38034375,"end":9509.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9509.430968750003,"end":9509.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9509.464718750001,"end":9509.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9509.86971875,"end":9511.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9511.35471875,"end":9513.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9513.54846875,"end":9516.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9516.67034375,"end":9518.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9518.94846875,"end":9525.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9525.715343750002,"end":9527.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9527.68971875,"end":9528.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9528.22971875,"end":9529.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9529.69784375,"end":9530.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9531.047843750002,"end":9532.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9533.899718750003,"end":9534.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9535.08096875,"end":9535.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9535.097843750002,"end":9535.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9535.38471875,"end":9538.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9535.40159375,"end":9536.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9538.540343750003,"end":9538.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9538.55721875,"end":9538.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9539.02971875,"end":9540.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9540.17721875,"end":9542.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9543.40034375,"end":9545.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9545.273468750001,"end":9545.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9545.391593750002,"end":9545.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9545.72909375,"end":9545.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9545.745968750001,"end":9545.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9545.83034375,"end":9545.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9545.965343750002,"end":9545.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9545.99909375,"end":9546.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9546.218468750001,"end":9547.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9547.09596875,"end":9550.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9547.112843750001,"end":9547.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9550.555343750002,"end":9551.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9551.601593750001,"end":9551.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9551.618468750003,"end":9551.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9551.922218750002,"end":9552.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9552.05721875,"end":9552.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9552.090968750003,"end":9553.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9553.035968750002,"end":9562.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9562.77284375,"end":9567.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9563.29596875,"end":9564.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9567.09284375,"end":9572.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9572.492843750002,"end":9574.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9572.62784375,"end":9573.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9574.180343750002,"end":9574.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9574.66971875,"end":9595.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9594.480968750002,"end":9600.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9597.02909375,"end":9600.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9600.606593750003,"end":9600.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9600.72471875,"end":9601.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9601.028468750003,"end":9601.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9601.36596875,"end":9605.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9602.56409375,"end":9602.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9605.14596875,"end":9605.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9605.21346875,"end":9605.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9605.80409375,"end":9605.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9606.445343750001,"end":9618.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9618.34221875,"end":9618.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9618.949718750002,"end":9636.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9630.239093750002,"end":9630.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9637.32659375,"end":9639.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9638.085968750001,"end":9639.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9639.840968750003,"end":9640.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9640.465343750002,"end":9641.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9641.579093750002,"end":9642.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9642.254093750002,"end":9647.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9642.895343750002,"end":9643.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9648.329093750002,"end":9652.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9652.73346875,"end":9663.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9661.289093750001,"end":9661.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9663.972218750001,"end":9666.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9664.292843750001,"end":9668.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9666.55409375,"end":9666.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9669.152843750002,"end":9682.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9682.83846875,"end":9687.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9687.512843750003,"end":9689.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9689.68971875,"end":9700.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9700.38846875,"end":9721.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9721.735343750002,"end":9723.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9724.13159375,"end":9735.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9735.488468750002,"end":9752.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9752.19471875,"end":9765.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9757.999718750001,"end":9758.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9765.019718750002,"end":9771.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9771.48284375,"end":9780.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9775.27971875,"end":9775.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9777.726593750001,"end":9778.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9778.047218750002,"end":9778.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9779.86971875,"end":9785.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9781.45596875,"end":9782.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9783.66659375,"end":9784.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9784.628468750001,"end":9788.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9786.99096875,"end":9788.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9789.15096875,"end":9792.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9789.539093750001,"end":9790.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9790.46721875,"end":9790.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9792.289718750002,"end":9795.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9795.394718750002,"end":9797.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9797.824718750002,"end":9799.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9799.394093750001,"end":9803.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9800.237843750001,"end":9802.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9803.477843750003,"end":9808.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9808.945343750001,"end":9810.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9809.70471875,"end":9811.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9812.590343750002,"end":9815.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9815.18909375,"end":9816.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9816.84284375,"end":9827.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9827.71034375,"end":9832.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9832.317218750002,"end":9842.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9841.76721875,"end":9849.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9845.47971875,"end":9845.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9849.22596875,"end":9853.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9849.27659375,"end":9849.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9853.664093750001,"end":9869.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9868.88534375,"end":9873.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9871.922843750002,"end":9874.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9874.15034375,"end":9874.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9874.504718750002,"end":9874.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9874.52159375,"end":9874.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9874.63971875,"end":9874.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9884.34284375,"end":9887.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9892.223468750002,"end":9893.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9894.315968750001,"end":9895.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9898.062218750001,"end":9899.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9900.15471875,"end":9900.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9900.762218750002,"end":9901.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9901.58909375,"end":9901.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9901.67346875,"end":9902.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9901.74096875,"end":9901.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9901.96034375,"end":9901.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9901.977218750002,"end":9902.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9902.04471875,"end":9902.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9903.293468750002,"end":9923.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9923.847218750001,"end":9924.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9924.134093750003,"end":9940.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9941.852843750003,"end":9942.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9943.050968750002,"end":9951.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9947.60721875,"end":9947.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9951.72471875,"end":9954.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9953.918468750002,"end":9964.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9955.47096875,"end":9956.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9964.718468750001,"end":9967.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9967.840343750002,"end":9969.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9970.320968750002,"end":9972.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9972.49784375,"end":9978.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9978.57284375,"end":9985.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9985.49159375,"end":9985.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9985.54221875,"end":9985.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9985.67721875,"end":9985.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9985.727843750003,"end":9985.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9985.930343750002,"end":9985.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9985.96409375,"end":9986.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9986.41971875,"end":9996.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9994.40159375,"end":9994.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9996.98346875,"end":10000.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10000.594718750002,"end":10002.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10002.87284375,"end":10011.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10012.20471875,"end":10015.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10015.96784375,"end":10017.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10018.566593750002,"end":10019.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10019.66346875,"end":10038.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10039.238468750002,"end":10043.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10043.44034375,"end":10065.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10064.58471875,"end":10064.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10064.78721875,"end":10064.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10064.85471875,"end":10081.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10081.98284375,"end":10086.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10087.21409375,"end":10091.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10091.88846875,"end":10098.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10098.452843750001,"end":10102.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10098.672218750002,"end":10099.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10101.65909375,"end":10101.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10102.199093750001,"end":10102.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10102.80659375,"end":10105.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10105.13534375,"end":10106.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10105.253468750001,"end":10105.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10106.92409375,"end":10138.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10139.273468750001,"end":10142.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10142.41221875,"end":10146.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10146.63096875,"end":10159.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10159.03409375,"end":10161.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10162.02096875,"end":10167.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10167.74159375,"end":10168.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10169.36159375,"end":10178.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10178.32221875,"end":10178.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10178.33909375,"end":10178.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10178.69346875,"end":10179.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10179.503468750001,"end":10179.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10179.68909375,"end":10179.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10179.874718750001,"end":10179.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10179.891593750002,"end":10184.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10185.375968750002,"end":10187.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10186.70909375,"end":10187.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10187.62034375,"end":10192.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10192.14284375,"end":10194.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10195.09596875,"end":10200.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10200.715343750002,"end":10201.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10201.00221875,"end":10201.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10201.812218750001,"end":10223.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10221.218468750001,"end":10224.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10223.83409375,"end":10224.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10225.504718750002,"end":10226.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10226.348468750002,"end":10240.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10236.55784375,"end":10238.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10240.641593750002,"end":10241.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10242.29534375,"end":10245.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10245.315968750001,"end":10270.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10247.13846875,"end":10247.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10247.25659375,"end":10247.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10271.20221875,"end":10271.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10272.50159375,"end":10273.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10273.78409375,"end":10275.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10275.99471875,"end":10282.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10282.27221875,"end":10292.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10293.055343750002,"end":10303.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10301.340968750003,"end":10302.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10302.94409375,"end":10303.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10303.180343750002,"end":10304.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10304.05784375,"end":10304.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10304.125343750002,"end":10305.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10305.00284375,"end":10309.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10305.03659375,"end":10307.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10307.73659375,"end":10308.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10309.05284375,"end":10309.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10309.812218750001,"end":10315.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10315.836593750002,"end":10322.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10321.472843750002,"end":10322.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10322.23221875,"end":10322.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10322.28284375,"end":10322.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10322.316593750002,"end":10322.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10322.33346875,"end":10331.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10322.67096875,"end":10322.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10331.41221875,"end":10335.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10335.563468750002,"end":10335.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10336.086593750002,"end":10346.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10346.312843750002,"end":10346.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10346.61659375,"end":10349.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10350.784718750001,"end":10351.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10351.66221875,"end":10371.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10356.690968750001,"end":10357.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10357.062218750001,"end":10357.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10360.20096875,"end":10360.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10367.91284375,"end":10368.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10370.84909375,"end":10371.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10371.254093750002,"end":10391.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10391.301593750002,"end":10409.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10408.328468750002,"end":10409.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10409.813468750002,"end":10424.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10424.79846875,"end":10459.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10459.98284375,"end":10465.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10465.68659375,"end":10477.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10472.21721875,"end":10472.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10476.63846875,"end":10476.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10477.49909375,"end":10490.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10479.372218750003,"end":10479.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10482.49409375,"end":10482.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10490.99909375,"end":10491.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10493.61471875,"end":10494.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10495.065968750001,"end":10498.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10499.63909375,"end":10515.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10515.78846875,"end":10515.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10515.805343750002,"end":10516.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10516.058468750001,"end":10518.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10516.09221875,"end":10516.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10518.47159375,"end":10519.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10519.78784375,"end":10521.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10525.91346875,"end":10527.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10528.259093750003,"end":10531.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10539.98721875,"end":10542.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10542.855968750002,"end":10543.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10550.871593750002,"end":10551.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10552.289093750001,"end":10561.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10561.249718750001,"end":10561.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10561.637843750003,"end":10565.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10565.56971875,"end":10565.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10565.907218750002,"end":10573.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10573.46721875,"end":10588.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10588.587218750003,"end":10594.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10594.155968750001,"end":10601.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10601.36159375,"end":10615.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10615.03034375,"end":10617.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10618.03409375,"end":10620.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10621.34159375,"end":10621.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10622.438468750002,"end":10632.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10632.917843750001,"end":10636.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10637.102843750003,"end":10658.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10658.88846875,"end":10665.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10666.27971875,"end":10667.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10667.39346875,"end":10684.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10684.352843750003,"end":10684.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10685.027843750002,"end":10685.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10685.04471875,"end":10705.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10692.75659375,"end":10692.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10694.612843750001,"end":10694.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10694.984093750001,"end":10695.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10695.01784375,"end":10695.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10695.473468750002,"end":10695.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10695.50721875,"end":10695.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10695.524093750002,"end":10696.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10696.03034375,"end":10696.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10696.300343750001,"end":10696.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10696.48596875,"end":10697.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10699.962218750003,"end":10700.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10700.738468750002,"end":10700.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10700.87346875,"end":10701.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10701.09284375,"end":10701.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10703.67471875,"end":10704.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10705.76721875,"end":10710.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10706.594093750002,"end":10706.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10706.61096875,"end":10707.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":10707.04971875,"end":10707.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10710.62721875,"end":10721.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10714.879718750002,"end":10715.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10721.44409375,"end":10723.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10723.739093750002,"end":10724.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10724.61659375,"end":10736.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10736.78346875,"end":10740.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10741.137218750002,"end":10746.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10746.97596875,"end":10750.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10751.19471875,"end":10753.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10754.586593750002,"end":10758.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10758.50159375,"end":10761.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10761.066593750002,"end":10767.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10768.508468750002,"end":10769.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10770.11159375,"end":10770.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10770.719093750002,"end":10775.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10775.79846875,"end":10789.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10790.192843750003,"end":10791.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10792.352843750003,"end":10793.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10794.090968750003,"end":10795.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10795.59284375,"end":10808.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10808.87346875,"end":10818.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10818.188468750002,"end":10825.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10826.01846875,"end":10851.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10852.54596875,"end":10854.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10854.68909375,"end":10856.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10856.039093750001,"end":10856.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10856.71409375,"end":10856.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10858.114718750003,"end":10861.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10861.75971875,"end":10862.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10863.177218750003,"end":10867.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10867.83471875,"end":10869.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10869.387218750002,"end":10869.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10870.281593750002,"end":10880.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10880.44034375,"end":10909.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10889.519093750001,"end":10890.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10891.695968750002,"end":10891.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10893.012218750002,"end":10897.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10898.378468750001,"end":10898.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10911.102218750002,"end":10914.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10912.941593750002,"end":10927.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10915.844093750002,"end":10916.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10923.657218750002,"end":10923.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10926.137843750003,"end":10927.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10927.21784375,"end":10937.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10938.06846875,"end":10939.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10940.17784375,"end":10944.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10944.09284375,"end":10944.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10944.649718750003,"end":10945.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10944.700343750003,"end":10970.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10970.97471875,"end":10974.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10975.075343750003,"end":10978.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10978.88909375,"end":10981.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10982.247218750003,"end":10985.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10986.364718750003,"end":10993.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10993.789718750002,"end":11000.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11001.653468750003,"end":11005.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11005.770968750003,"end":11006.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11006.04096875,"end":11014.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11015.052218750003,"end":11023.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11020.840343750002,"end":11020.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11020.90784375,"end":11020.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11020.958468750003,"end":11020.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11023.844093750002,"end":11026.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11027.57346875,"end":11031.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11032.04534375,"end":11039.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11037.78284375,"end":11038.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11039.53784375,"end":11054.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11039.571593750003,"end":11040.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11054.62409375,"end":11056.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11056.817843750003,"end":11057.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11064.192218750002,"end":11065.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11066.082218750002,"end":11066.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11072.69721875,"end":11076.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11083.395968750003,"end":11083.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11083.446593750003,"end":11083.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11083.73346875,"end":11083.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11083.800968750002,"end":11083.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11083.98659375,"end":11084.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11084.52659375,"end":11134.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11134.965968750003,"end":11139.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11141.175968750002,"end":11144.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11144.669093750003,"end":11153.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11146.06971875,"end":11146.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11146.17096875,"end":11146.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11153.81534375,"end":11153.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11153.96721875,"end":11163.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11159.535968750002,"end":11171.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11171.922218750002,"end":11171.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11171.93909375,"end":11173.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11173.980968750002,"end":11192.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11193.066593750002,"end":11197.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11197.757843750001,"end":11204.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11200.407218750002,"end":11200.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11205.26721875,"end":11209.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11205.300968750002,"end":11206.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11207.17409375,"end":11209.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11210.07659375,"end":11210.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11210.12721875,"end":11210.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11210.27909375,"end":11211.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11210.414093750001,"end":11210.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11211.96659375,"end":11212.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11213.687843750002,"end":11215.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11215.40909375,"end":11219.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11219.442218750002,"end":11219.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11219.93159375,"end":11234.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11234.899718750003,"end":11237.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11237.430968750003,"end":11239.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11239.894718750002,"end":11248.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11248.973468750002,"end":11249.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11249.68221875,"end":11261.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11261.74784375,"end":11263.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11263.97534375,"end":11266.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11266.28721875,"end":11267.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11268.07596875,"end":11276.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11276.93534375,"end":11329.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11330.496593750002,"end":11334.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11335.289093750001,"end":11360.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11360.41596875,"end":11406.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11364.21284375,"end":11364.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11406.02909375,"end":11406.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11407.04159375,"end":11413.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11413.403468750003,"end":11427.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11427.08909375,"end":11428.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11428.77659375,"end":11438.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11430.531593750002,"end":11431.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11438.800343750001,"end":11452.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11451.625343750002,"end":11461.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11456.384093750003,"end":11456.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11460.34971875,"end":11462.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11461.379093750002,"end":11474.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11474.91284375,"end":11476.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11476.65096875,"end":11476.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11488.98659375,"end":11490.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11491.51784375,"end":11492.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11499.938468750002,"end":11501.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11502.149093750002,"end":11503.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11504.37659375,"end":11504.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11505.06846875,"end":11505.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11513.489093750002,"end":11514.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11515.075343750003,"end":11515.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11517.083468750003,"end":11521.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11521.926593750002,"end":11523.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11524.17096875,"end":11525.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11525.43659375,"end":11526.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11527.090343750002,"end":11528.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11528.86221875,"end":11531.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11532.000968750002,"end":11533.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11536.067843750003,"end":11536.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11536.962218750003,"end":11537.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11538.649718750003,"end":11541.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11541.974093750003,"end":11557.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11557.515968750002,"end":11557.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11558.34284375,"end":11561.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11561.903468750003,"end":11564.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11564.940968750001,"end":11569.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11570.070968750002,"end":11571.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11572.399718750003,"end":11576.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11576.989718750003,"end":11580.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11581.52909375,"end":11582.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11582.929718750001,"end":11584.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11585.39346875,"end":11588.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11588.97096875,"end":11590.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11590.911593750003,"end":11594.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11594.87721875,"end":11595.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11596.36221875,"end":11600.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11601.222218750001,"end":11601.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11602.15034375,"end":11605.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11605.27221875,"end":11607.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11608.259093750003,"end":11610.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11611.02659375,"end":11615.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11616.93284375,"end":11620.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11621.489093750002,"end":11623.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11623.76721875,"end":11626.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11626.905968750001,"end":11628.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11628.880343750003,"end":11638.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11639.157218750002,"end":11642.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11643.08909375,"end":11645.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11646.09284375,"end":11649.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11649.754718750002,"end":11652.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11652.218468750001,"end":11654.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11654.699093750001,"end":11655.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11655.981593750003,"end":11658.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11658.614093750002,"end":11659.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11659.440968750001,"end":11667.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11667.878468750001,"end":11669.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11670.51096875,"end":11685.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11685.968468750001,"end":11686.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11686.019093750001,"end":11686.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11686.457843750002,"end":11686.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11686.47471875,"end":11695.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11695.80659375,"end":11697.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11697.679718750001,"end":11700.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11701.29096875,"end":11702.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11702.691593750002,"end":11712.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11710.757843750001,"end":11721.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11722.06409375,"end":11724.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11725.894718750002,"end":11726.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11727.683468750001,"end":11735.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11735.85096875,"end":11737.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11737.53846875,"end":11737.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11738.06159375,"end":11752.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11752.489718750003,"end":11752.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11753.08034375,"end":11753.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11753.114093750002,"end":11754.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11755.020968750003,"end":11757.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11758.29471875,"end":11768.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11768.85846875,"end":11771.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11772.01409375,"end":11775.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11775.844718750002,"end":11792.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11792.78721875,"end":11795.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11796.06096875,"end":11801.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11801.849093750003,"end":11802.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11802.16971875,"end":11814.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11815.281593750002,"end":11816.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11817.52596875,"end":11819.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11819.770343750002,"end":11821.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11821.710968750001,"end":11822.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11823.972218750001,"end":11825.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11825.828468750002,"end":11827.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11828.140343750001,"end":11832.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11833.270343750002,"end":11838.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11838.36659375,"end":11838.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11838.484718750002,"end":11838.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11838.56909375,"end":11861.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11859.54471875,"end":11866.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11867.340968750003,"end":11871.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11871.542843750001,"end":11873.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11873.770343750002,"end":11875.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11875.390343750001,"end":11878.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11878.37721875,"end":11881.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11881.49909375,"end":11883.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11883.270968750003,"end":11888.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11889.09284375,"end":11891.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11892.062843750002,"end":11893.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11893.699718750002,"end":11897.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11898.20534375,"end":11903.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11904.077843750001,"end":11907.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11907.942218750002,"end":11907.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11907.97596875,"end":11922.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11921.15534375,"end":11921.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11922.03284375,"end":11929.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11930.06534375,"end":11938.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11935.97159375,"end":11942.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11944.020968750003,"end":11947.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11947.73346875,"end":11961.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11963.005343750003,"end":11969.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11970.39659375,"end":11972.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11973.704093750002,"end":11974.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11975.762843750003,"end":11980.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11980.555343750002,"end":11981.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11982.175343750001,"end":11984.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11985.06096875,"end":11990.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11992.40159375,"end":11993.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11993.32971875,"end":11995.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11996.755343750003,"end":11997.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11998.544093750003,"end":12002.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12004.04534375,"end":12007.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12007.184093750002,"end":12012.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12013.15784375,"end":12015.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12015.992843750002,"end":12017.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12019.55346875,"end":12023.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12024.12659375,"end":12026.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12026.691593750002,"end":12028.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12029.08784375,"end":12033.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12033.79596875,"end":12035.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12035.297843750002,"end":12038.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12039.80346875,"end":12043.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12043.48221875,"end":12045.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12045.574718750002,"end":12045.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12045.86159375,"end":12045.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12046.23284375,"end":12046.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12046.97534375,"end":12054.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12054.04596875,"end":12057.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12057.87659375,"end":12063.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12063.124718750001,"end":12069.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12063.293468750002,"end":12064.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12068.575343750003,"end":12085.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12070.07721875,"end":12070.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12078.700343750003,"end":12080.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12083.442218750002,"end":12084.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12086.05784375,"end":12087.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12087.964718750001,"end":12099.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12100.28346875,"end":12102.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12103.371593750002,"end":12106.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12106.81409375,"end":12108.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12108.02909375,"end":12117.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12115.74096875,"end":12139.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12134.286593750003,"end":12139.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12139.41659375,"end":12139.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12145.84596875,"end":12151.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12158.890343750001,"end":12166.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12164.10471875,"end":12164.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12166.88909375,"end":12167.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12168.390968750002,"end":12169.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12170.972843750002,"end":12171.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12172.22159375,"end":12172.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12174.044093750003,"end":12174.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12175.32659375,"end":12176.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12176.035343750002,"end":12176.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12176.96346875,"end":12193.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12177.452843750001,"end":12177.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12177.55409375,"end":12177.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12177.60471875,"end":12177.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12177.672218750002,"end":12177.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12177.739718750003,"end":12177.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12177.97596875,"end":12178.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12178.195343750001,"end":12178.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12193.855343750001,"end":12197.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12198.884093750003,"end":12204.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12204.621593750002,"end":12212.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12212.45159375,"end":12215.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12215.23596875,"end":12216.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12217.31159375,"end":12219.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12219.960968750001,"end":12221.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12222.27284375,"end":12237.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12228.17909375,"end":12229.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12237.49409375,"end":12243.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12244.09221875,"end":12244.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12244.83471875,"end":12244.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12245.98221875,"end":12246.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12246.84284375,"end":12246.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12246.859718750002,"end":12252.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12251.753468750001,"end":12264.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12264.03846875,"end":12264.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12264.12284375,"end":12264.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12264.19034375,"end":12273.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12264.224093750003,"end":12265.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12271.56471875,"end":12271.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12272.35784375,"end":12277.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12277.774718750003,"end":12279.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12279.58034375,"end":12281.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12281.74034375,"end":12285.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12285.149093750002,"end":12287.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12287.562218750001,"end":12287.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12288.08534375,"end":12289.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12290.380343750003,"end":12291.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12292.472843750002,"end":12294.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12294.649718750003,"end":12295.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12296.50596875,"end":12297.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12297.855968750002,"end":12299.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12299.18909375,"end":12300.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12301.804718750001,"end":12304.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12304.707218750002,"end":12308.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12309.11159375,"end":12310.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12311.136593750001,"end":12314.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12314.29221875,"end":12314.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12314.32596875,"end":12314.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12314.37659375,"end":12321.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12322.105343750001,"end":12326.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12327.083468750003,"end":12330.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12330.120968750001,"end":12332.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12333.394718750002,"end":12341.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12338.474093750003,"end":12353.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12350.92784375,"end":12353.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12353.99909375,"end":12358.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12359.16284375,"end":12360.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12361.238468750002,"end":12362.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12362.031593750002,"end":12362.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12362.68971875,"end":12362.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12362.723468750002,"end":12365.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12365.59221875,"end":12373.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12373.03409375,"end":12373.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12373.574093750001,"end":12374.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12374.468468750001,"end":12374.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12375.09284375,"end":12383.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12383.024093750002,"end":12383.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12383.344718750002,"end":12383.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12383.614718750003,"end":12399.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12388.00221875,"end":12388.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12399.949718750002,"end":12403.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12404.25284375,"end":12406.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12406.024718750003,"end":12407.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12408.184718750003,"end":12416.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12416.89221875,"end":12419.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12419.54159375,"end":12424.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12423.034718750001,"end":12424.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12425.12721875,"end":12427.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12427.28721875,"end":12427.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12427.962218750003,"end":12431.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12427.97909375,"end":12428.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12428.23221875,"end":12428.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12431.03346875,"end":12431.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12431.25284375,"end":12431.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12431.50596875,"end":12431.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12431.82659375,"end":12431.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12431.97846875,"end":12434.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12434.290343750003,"end":12452.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12452.97096875,"end":12453.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12453.59534375,"end":12456.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12456.632843750001,"end":12457.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12459.383468750002,"end":12461.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12461.594093750002,"end":12465.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12467.63534375,"end":12471.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12471.53346875,"end":12473.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12473.035343750002,"end":12474.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12474.95909375,"end":12477.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12477.64221875,"end":12481.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12481.962218750003,"end":12483.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12484.054718750001,"end":12487.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12488.61096875,"end":12489.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12488.67846875,"end":12489.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12489.505343750003,"end":12489.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12489.657218750002,"end":12493.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12494.53409375,"end":12497.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12497.47034375,"end":12499.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12500.085968750001,"end":12501.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12501.300968750002,"end":12501.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12501.68909375,"end":12505.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12505.789718750002,"end":12507.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12507.54471875,"end":12508.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12509.28284375,"end":12510.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12511.72971875,"end":12512.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12513.78846875,"end":12516.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12517.26471875,"end":12519.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12520.065968750001,"end":12521.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12521.90534375,"end":12525.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12525.48284375,"end":12525.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12526.17471875,"end":12529.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12530.680343750002,"end":12532.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12532.992218750001,"end":12534.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12534.76409375,"end":12534.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12535.253468750001,"end":12536.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12537.61596875,"end":12539.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12539.03346875,"end":12539.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12539.219093750002,"end":12539.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12539.472218750001,"end":12539.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12539.489093750002,"end":12541.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12541.227218750002,"end":12554.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12552.516593750002,"end":12555.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12555.520343750002,"end":12555.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12555.60471875,"end":12567.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12568.902218750001,"end":12568.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12571.855343750001,"end":12572.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12575.73659375,"end":12577.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12581.27159375,"end":12582.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12587.02596875,"end":12588.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12589.152218750001,"end":12589.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12596.99909375,"end":12597.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12597.977843750003,"end":12598.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12599.20971875,"end":12600.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12600.610343750002,"end":12613.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12614.75159375,"end":12614.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12614.785343750002,"end":12615.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12615.426593750002,"end":12617.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12619.594718750002,"end":12623.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12623.847218750001,"end":12641.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12624.04971875,"end":12624.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12625.703468750002,"end":12626.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12642.66284375,"end":12664.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12664.81971875,"end":12672.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12672.852218750002,"end":12674.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12674.438468750002,"end":12681.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12680.42909375,"end":12700.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12700.08846875,"end":12758.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12705.03284375,"end":12705.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12758.543468750002,"end":12762.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12762.863468750002,"end":12766.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12765.090968750003,"end":12778.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12778.017218750003,"end":12780.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12778.81034375,"end":12778.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12780.91971875,"end":12788.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12786.117218750001,"end":12790.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12789.863468750002,"end":12806.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12806.519093750001,"end":12813.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12813.555968750003,"end":12813.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12813.910343750002,"end":12830.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12830.76846875,"end":12840.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12841.332218750002,"end":12849.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12849.80346875,"end":12850.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12850.731593750003,"end":12924.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12925.63971875,"end":12925.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12926.80409375,"end":12927.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12928.204718750003,"end":12930.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12931.259093750003,"end":12933.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12933.621593750002,"end":12942.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12942.059093750002,"end":12942.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12942.126593750003,"end":12957.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12942.34596875,"end":12944.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12946.547843750002,"end":12948.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12957.516593750002,"end":12960.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12960.689093750003,"end":12961.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12966.629093750002,"end":12968.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12972.805343750002,"end":12973.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12974.020343750002,"end":12974.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12975.218468750001,"end":12975.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12975.336593750002,"end":12975.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12975.437843750002,"end":12975.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12980.972843750002,"end":12985.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12985.91721875,"end":12988.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12989.039093750001,"end":12995.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12996.24471875,"end":13012.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13000.952843750001,"end":13001.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13013.11971875,"end":13019.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13019.734718750002,"end":13022.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13022.215343750002,"end":13051.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13051.695968750002,"end":13056.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13056.910343750002,"end":13066.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13065.95534375,"end":13069.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13070.511593750001,"end":13073.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13073.59971875,"end":13077.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13077.41346875,"end":13083.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13084.281593750002,"end":13089.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13090.47471875,"end":13093.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13094.001593750003,"end":13094.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13095.01409375,"end":13097.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13097.71409375,"end":13098.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13098.726593750001,"end":13102.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13103.08034375,"end":13103.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13103.72159375,"end":13106.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13107.602843750003,"end":13112.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13112.597843750002,"end":13119.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13119.550343750001,"end":13125.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13126.199093750001,"end":13126.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13127.92034375,"end":13133.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13134.214718750001,"end":13138.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13138.720343750003,"end":13142.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13142.196593750003,"end":13142.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13143.344093750002,"end":13144.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13144.137218750002,"end":13148.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13149.199718750002,"end":13157.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13158.008468750002,"end":13158.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13158.04221875,"end":13160.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13160.640968750002,"end":13161.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13161.88971875,"end":13161.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13163.914718750002,"end":13166.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13167.25596875,"end":13170.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13170.90096875,"end":13174.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13174.680968750003,"end":13178.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13178.22471875,"end":13180.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13180.907843750003,"end":13191.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13192.112843750001,"end":13194.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13194.492218750001,"end":13197.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13196.230343750001,"end":13196.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13197.69846875,"end":13206.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13197.715343750002,"end":13199.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13204.12784375,"end":13204.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13204.144718750002,"end":13204.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13207.064093750003,"end":13214.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13214.590343750002,"end":13219.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13219.804718750001,"end":13228.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13228.12409375,"end":13228.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13229.79471875,"end":13235.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13235.92034375,"end":13240.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13240.695968750002,"end":13240.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13241.320343750001,"end":13247.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13247.58096875,"end":13252.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13252.727843750003,"end":13256.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13256.828468750002,"end":13262.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13262.532218750002,"end":13264.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13265.13096875,"end":13295.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13296.062843750002,"end":13297.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13297.581593750001,"end":13299.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13299.539093750001,"end":13303.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13303.96034375,"end":13305.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13305.25971875,"end":13308.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13309.140968750002,"end":13309.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13309.242218750001,"end":13309.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13309.292843750001,"end":13310.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13309.512218750002,"end":13319.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13319.738468750002,"end":13323.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13323.41721875,"end":13326.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13326.555968750003,"end":13329.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13329.120968750001,"end":13337.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13337.96346875,"end":13343.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13343.07659375,"end":13343.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13343.144093750001,"end":13343.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13343.329718750003,"end":13345.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13346.29971875,"end":13346.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13346.940968750001,"end":13349.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13349.809718750003,"end":13354.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13355.00721875,"end":13364.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13362.28034375,"end":13363.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13364.11971875,"end":13366.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13364.305343750002,"end":13366.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13366.80284375,"end":13366.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13366.836593750002,"end":13366.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13366.937843750002,"end":13366.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13366.954718750003,"end":13367.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13367.039093750001,"end":13370.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13367.798468750003,"end":13368.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13370.144093750001,"end":13374.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13374.599093750003,"end":13376.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13382.445968750002,"end":13384.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13392.503468750001,"end":13394.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13394.32596875,"end":13395.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13402.172843750002,"end":13402.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13402.527218750001,"end":13402.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13403.539718750002,"end":13404.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13405.29471875,"end":13411.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13413.37784375,"end":13413.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13414.42409375,"end":13417.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13418.86221875,"end":13471.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13426.675343750001,"end":13427.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13427.45159375,"end":13427.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13427.738468750002,"end":13427.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":13442.099093750003,"end":13442.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13471.461593750002,"end":13473.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13474.212218750003,"end":13478.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13479.13971875,"end":13480.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13480.860968750003,"end":13485.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13485.02909375,"end":13485.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13485.923468750003,"end":13485.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13485.94034375,"end":13505.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13504.38471875,"end":13508.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13509.14346875,"end":13509.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13510.08846875,"end":13510.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13511.87721875,"end":13518.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13514.57721875,"end":13515.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13519.15034375,"end":13544.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13545.829718750003,"end":13547.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13547.399093750002,"end":13547.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13547.73659375,"end":13557.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13557.726593750001,"end":13564.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13564.29096875,"end":13578.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13578.027218750001,"end":13590.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13586.70096875,"end":13586.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13586.802218750003,"end":13586.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13586.92034375,"end":13586.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13586.937218750001,"end":13586.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13590.970343750003,"end":13629.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13629.360968750003,"end":13649.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13650.117218750001,"end":13653.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13650.589718750001,"end":13650.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13653.930968750003,"end":13659.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13659.58409375,"end":13674.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13674.34971875,"end":13674.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13674.45096875,"end":13674.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13674.72096875,"end":13674.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13674.974093750003,"end":13685.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13675.78409375,"end":13676.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13686.21284375,"end":13686.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13686.465968750003,"end":13695.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13689.030968750001,"end":13689.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13689.11534375,"end":13689.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13689.97596875,"end":13690.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13695.780968750001,"end":13699.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13700.03346875,"end":13712.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13712.74034375,"end":13727.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13723.692218750002,"end":13724.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13727.97846875,"end":13753.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13730.425343750001,"end":13730.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13753.78034375,"end":13755.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13755.02909375,"end":13756.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13756.058468750001,"end":13756.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13756.26096875,"end":13771.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13771.06034375,"end":13775.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13774.469093750002,"end":13784.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13777.067843750003,"end":13777.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13778.316593750002,"end":13779.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13780.797218750002,"end":13780.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13790.719718750002,"end":13792.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13799.005343750003,"end":13800.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":13800.473468750002,"end":13801.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13808.15159375,"end":13808.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13808.860343750002,"end":13809.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13810.09221875,"end":13819.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13820.622218750003,"end":13820.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13821.68534375,"end":13823.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13823.625968750002,"end":13831.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13823.71034375,"end":13825.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13825.634093750003,"end":13826.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13826.12346875,"end":13826.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13826.882843750001,"end":13827.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13828.55346875,"end":13828.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13828.637843750003,"end":13829.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13830.39284375,"end":13830.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13830.96659375,"end":13831.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13831.45596875,"end":13842.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13842.036593750003,"end":13844.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13844.43284375,"end":13844.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13844.820968750002,"end":13847.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13847.976593750001,"end":13850.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13850.946593750003,"end":13857.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13858.574093750001,"end":13861.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13861.324718750002,"end":13865.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13866.589718750001,"end":13870.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13871.04471875,"end":13871.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13872.15846875,"end":13877.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13877.575343750003,"end":13879.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13879.718468750001,"end":13880.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13880.882843750001,"end":13882.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13882.03034375,"end":13888.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13888.324718750002,"end":13888.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13888.76346875,"end":13889.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13888.847843750002,"end":13888.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13889.30346875,"end":13890.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13890.974093750003,"end":13892.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13892.47596875,"end":13920.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13895.918468750002,"end":13896.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13920.032843750003,"end":13928.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13929.06096875,"end":13930.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13931.204093750002,"end":13952.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13952.972843750002,"end":13968.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13953.32721875,"end":13953.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13969.577843750001,"end":13970.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13969.66221875,"end":13970.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13970.94471875,"end":13972.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13972.109093750001,"end":13972.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13972.851593750001,"end":13973.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13973.965343750002,"end":13976.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13974.555968750003,"end":13974.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13976.564093750003,"end":13977.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13979.48346875,"end":13983.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13983.094718750002,"end":13983.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13983.195968750002,"end":13983.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13983.21284375,"end":13983.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13983.246593750002,"end":13991.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13991.414093750001,"end":13994.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13994.940968750001,"end":14001.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13999.63221875,"end":14000.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14001.640343750001,"end":14002.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14002.720343750003,"end":14004.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14004.964718750001,"end":14011.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14011.630343750003,"end":14013.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14013.90846875,"end":14044.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14014.07721875,"end":14014.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14015.39346875,"end":14015.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14044.789718750002,"end":14045.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14045.02596875,"end":14052.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14052.855968750002,"end":14063.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14063.993468750003,"end":14064.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14064.044093750003,"end":14091.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14073.81471875,"end":14074.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14082.032843750003,"end":14082.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14091.972218750001,"end":14094.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14102.67096875,"end":14111.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14111.31096875,"end":14120.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14133.56909375,"end":14134.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14135.30721875,"end":14136.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14144.95971875,"end":14145.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14146.208468750003,"end":14149.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14149.92096875,"end":14161.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14162.05409375,"end":14164.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14165.09159375,"end":14170.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14170.17096875,"end":14170.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14171.352218750002,"end":14175.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14176.515968750002,"end":14182.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14182.692218750002,"end":14184.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14185.08846875,"end":14186.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14187.45096875,"end":14188.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14188.51409375,"end":14189.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14190.066593750002,"end":14190.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14191.028468750003,"end":14197.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14197.15409375,"end":14221.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14222.04471875,"end":14225.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14225.16659375,"end":14228.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14228.305343750002,"end":14228.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14228.355968750002,"end":14228.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14228.96346875,"end":14233.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14234.515343750001,"end":14235.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14235.76409375,"end":14239.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14239.78034375,"end":14240.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14240.77596875,"end":14249.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14249.53409375,"end":14264.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14264.40096875,"end":14269.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14269.952843750001,"end":14272.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14273.51346875,"end":14281.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14278.89659375,"end":14278.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14278.91346875,"end":14278.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14281.934093750002,"end":14287.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14286.372218750003,"end":14287.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14287.992218750001,"end":14291.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14291.333468750003,"end":14296.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14296.969718750002,"end":14297.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14297.93159375,"end":14298.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14299.21409375,"end":14307.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14307.989093750002,"end":14311.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14311.90409375,"end":14312.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14312.91659375,"end":14313.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14313.878468750001,"end":14315.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14315.97096875,"end":14320.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14320.797218750002,"end":14325.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14326.349093750003,"end":14327.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14327.42909375,"end":14327.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14327.95221875,"end":14329.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14329.032218750002,"end":14344.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14343.12284375,"end":14343.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14344.962218750003,"end":14352.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14347.274093750002,"end":14348.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14352.269093750001,"end":14352.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14352.876593750003,"end":14360.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14360.824718750002,"end":14362.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14360.875343750002,"end":14361.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14362.02284375,"end":14367.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14362.090343750002,"end":14362.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14367.254093750002,"end":14375.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14369.59971875,"end":14369.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14371.55721875,"end":14372.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14375.438468750002,"end":14383.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14379.707843750002,"end":14380.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14383.42034375,"end":14388.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14389.07346875,"end":14389.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14390.457218750002,"end":14397.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14398.33784375,"end":14403.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14404.277843750002,"end":14409.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14409.593468750001,"end":14410.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14410.335968750001,"end":14411.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14412.05721875,"end":14416.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14412.293468750002,"end":14412.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14416.731593750003,"end":14417.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14418.85784375,"end":14419.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14420.27534375,"end":14422.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14422.01346875,"end":14422.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14422.23284375,"end":14422.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14422.75596875,"end":14422.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14422.87409375,"end":14423.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14424.03846875,"end":14428.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14429.25284375,"end":14430.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14430.653468750003,"end":14437.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14438.36534375,"end":14442.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14442.22971875,"end":14442.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14442.668468750002,"end":14445.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14446.48221875,"end":14447.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14448.254093750002,"end":14449.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14449.82346875,"end":14456.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14456.286593750003,"end":14456.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14456.370968750001,"end":14458.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14458.952843750001,"end":14476.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14476.266593750002,"end":14491.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14491.403468750003,"end":14495.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14495.031593750002,"end":14517.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14517.964718750001,"end":14543.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14523.58409375,"end":14523.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14524.934093750002,"end":14524.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14524.96784375,"end":14525.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14527.06034375,"end":14527.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14542.602218750002,"end":14557.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14553.199718750002,"end":14556.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14556.23721875,"end":14556.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14557.40159375,"end":14561.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14558.81909375,"end":14558.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14568.657218750002,"end":14573.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14584.01346875,"end":14586.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14586.274718750003,"end":14587.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14594.45909375,"end":14594.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14594.93159375,"end":14599.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14600.567843750003,"end":14603.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14602.22159375,"end":14604.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14604.80346875,"end":14625.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14604.887843750003,"end":14604.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14625.67784375,"end":14630.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14630.38596875,"end":14669.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14645.52284375,"end":14645.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14653.757843750001,"end":14653.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14653.96034375,"end":14654.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14665.097843750002,"end":14665.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14670.480968750002,"end":14679.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14679.30659375,"end":14687.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14687.74409375,"end":14696.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14688.21659375,"end":14688.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14689.39784375,"end":14689.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14692.03034375,"end":14692.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14693.76846875,"end":14694.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14695.067843750003,"end":14695.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14697.02534375,"end":14698.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14698.493468750003,"end":14708.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14703.977843750003,"end":14707.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14708.601593750001,"end":14742.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14713.84971875,"end":14714.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14715.199718750002,"end":14715.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14715.250343750002,"end":14716.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14721.578468750002,"end":14722.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14724.34596875,"end":14724.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14726.168468750002,"end":14726.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14726.489093750002,"end":14726.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14734.42034375,"end":14734.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14742.90846875,"end":14756.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14755.68284375,"end":14756.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14757.184718750003,"end":14760.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14757.876593750003,"end":14758.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14758.028468750003,"end":14758.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14760.57659375,"end":14760.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14760.644093750001,"end":14765.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14763.411593750003,"end":14763.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14765.824718750002,"end":14765.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14765.875343750002,"end":14765.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14765.942843750003,"end":14798.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14769.80721875,"end":14770.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14773.469093750002,"end":14773.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14773.620968750001,"end":14773.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14773.97534375,"end":14774.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14776.844093750002,"end":14776.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14785.973468750002,"end":14786.564093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14786.564093750003,"end":14786.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14797.97159375,"end":14806.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14807.117843750002,"end":14818.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14818.37346875,"end":14829.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14829.004718750002,"end":14829.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14829.24096875,"end":14829.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14829.96659375,"end":14833.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14830.13534375,"end":14831.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14832.19409375,"end":14837.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14837.77971875,"end":14867.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14838.758468750002,"end":14840.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14840.63159375,"end":14841.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14846.554718750001,"end":14846.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14848.360343750002,"end":14848.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14856.91596875,"end":14857.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14859.902843750002,"end":14860.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14863.902218750001,"end":14864.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14867.665343750003,"end":14868.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14868.660968750002,"end":14873.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14873.68971875,"end":14902.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14874.314093750003,"end":14874.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14884.050968750002,"end":14884.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14884.067843750003,"end":14884.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14884.08471875,"end":14884.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14884.962218750003,"end":14885.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14894.445968750002,"end":14894.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14894.58096875,"end":14894.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14896.74096875,"end":14896.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14896.757843750001,"end":14896.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14902.86659375,"end":14923.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14907.60846875,"end":14907.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14913.86909375,"end":14914.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14915.94471875,"end":14918.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14923.065968750001,"end":14923.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14923.977218750002,"end":14925.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14925.31034375,"end":14927.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14933.005343750003,"end":14937.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14937.61221875,"end":14938.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14938.574093750001,"end":14941.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14949.660968750002,"end":14951.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14951.38221875,"end":14951.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14959.12784375,"end":14984.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14972.340968750003,"end":14972.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14972.492843750002,"end":14972.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14972.762843750003,"end":14972.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14972.965343750002,"end":14974.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14979.310343750003,"end":14979.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14984.254718750002,"end":14984.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14984.69346875,"end":14988.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14989.33409375,"end":14993.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14993.586593750002,"end":14993.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14993.77221875,"end":14994.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14995.25721875,"end":14998.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14998.446593750003,"end":14998.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14998.480343750001,"end":14999.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14998.66596875,"end":14999.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14999.290343750003,"end":14999.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14999.340968750003,"end":14999.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14999.67846875,"end":15001.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15001.63596875,"end":15002.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15002.024093750002,"end":15005.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15005.466593750003,"end":15006.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15007.609718750002,"end":15012.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15013.060343750003,"end":15017.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15017.02596875,"end":15029.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15029.715968750003,"end":15032.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15032.297843750002,"end":15048.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15048.970343750003,"end":15054.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15054.84284375,"end":15057.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15057.880343750003,"end":15058.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15058.335968750001,"end":15058.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15059.31471875,"end":15059.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15060.445343750001,"end":15063.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15063.28034375,"end":15069.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15070.266593750002,"end":15085.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15074.265968750002,"end":15074.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15085.082843750002,"end":15086.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15086.331593750001,"end":15086.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15086.888468750003,"end":15093.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15093.267218750003,"end":15093.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15093.824093750001,"end":15099.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15100.067843750003,"end":15103.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15103.392218750003,"end":15110.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15110.68221875,"end":15111.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15111.812843750002,"end":15114.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15114.79971875,"end":15117.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15117.972218750001,"end":15118.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15118.613468750002,"end":15123.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15123.642218750003,"end":15129.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15129.29534375,"end":15129.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15130.020968750003,"end":15131.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15131.809718750003,"end":15134.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15133.277843750002,"end":15140.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15140.972843750002,"end":15156.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15142.575968750003,"end":15143.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15155.87346875,"end":15156.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15156.059093750002,"end":15156.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15156.126593750003,"end":15163.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15164.378468750001,"end":15166.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15167.196593750003,"end":15174.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15174.97596875,"end":15178.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15178.671593750001,"end":15186.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15187.007843750001,"end":15190.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15190.770968750003,"end":15190.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15190.872218750003,"end":15190.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15190.922843750002,"end":15194.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15192.20534375,"end":15192.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15193.89284375,"end":15195.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15195.664718750002,"end":15213.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15198.33096875,"end":15199.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15199.242218750001,"end":15199.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15200.659718750001,"end":15201.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15207.39284375,"end":15207.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15209.67096875,"end":15210.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15213.585968750001,"end":15220.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15222.05721875,"end":15222.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15222.090968750003,"end":15225.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15223.879718750002,"end":15223.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15223.997843750003,"end":15224.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15224.824718750002,"end":15224.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15226.32659375,"end":15226.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15227.879093750002,"end":15233.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15232.671593750001,"end":15249.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15234.544718750003,"end":15236.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15239.55659375,"end":15239.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15239.843468750001,"end":15239.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15249.411593750003,"end":15252.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15251.993468750003,"end":15275.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15270.10034375,"end":15270.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15270.31971875,"end":15270.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15275.41596875,"end":15277.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15275.466593750003,"end":15276.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15278.43659375,"end":15280.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15280.157843750003,"end":15283.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15283.465343750002,"end":15286.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15292.814093750003,"end":15298.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15309.149093750002,"end":15311.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15317.957843750002,"end":15318.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15318.582218750002,"end":15318.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15319.51034375,"end":15324.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15324.589718750001,"end":15331.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15330.968468750001,"end":15332.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15332.774093750002,"end":15333.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15332.875343750002,"end":15333.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15333.820343750001,"end":15333.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15333.887843750003,"end":15333.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15334.12409375,"end":15336.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15335.33909375,"end":15338.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15339.38909375,"end":15341.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15341.785343750002,"end":15342.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15342.98346875,"end":15344.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15345.160343750002,"end":15352.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15351.218468750001,"end":15352.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15352.669718750003,"end":15352.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15353.20971875,"end":15354.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15354.94784375,"end":15358.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15356.179718750001,"end":15356.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15358.238468750002,"end":15373.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15364.482218750003,"end":15365.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15365.96721875,"end":15367.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15374.235968750003,"end":15382.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15377.172218750002,"end":15377.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15381.47534375,"end":15386.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15386.571593750003,"end":15390.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15390.97596875,"end":15399.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15399.531593750002,"end":15400.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15400.172843750002,"end":15408.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15402.687218750001,"end":15403.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15405.47159375,"end":15405.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15408.94784375,"end":15437.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15436.926593750002,"end":15437.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15437.31471875,"end":15441.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15442.44471875,"end":15447.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15447.895343750002,"end":15448.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15449.24534375,"end":15465.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15466.10346875,"end":15472.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15470.81159375,"end":15471.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15472.617218750001,"end":15506.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15506.468468750001,"end":15508.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15507.210968750001,"end":15507.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15507.227843750003,"end":15508.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15508.645343750002,"end":15509.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15509.421593750001,"end":15519.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15517.69034375,"end":15527.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15519.74909375,"end":15521.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15523.79909375,"end":15524.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15524.27159375,"end":15524.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15526.347218750001,"end":15526.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15526.785968750002,"end":15526.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15527.984093750001,"end":15543.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15543.32346875,"end":15543.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15544.16721875,"end":15562.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15546.614093750002,"end":15547.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15555.591593750003,"end":15555.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15555.60846875,"end":15555.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15555.97971875,"end":15556.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15563.45534375,"end":15565.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15563.50596875,"end":15564.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15565.26096875,"end":15582.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15581.528468750003,"end":15589.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15583.485968750003,"end":15583.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15586.152218750001,"end":15586.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15586.439093750003,"end":15586.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15587.907218750002,"end":15588.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15588.210968750001,"end":15588.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15589.864718750003,"end":15596.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15593.30721875,"end":15593.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15595.821593750003,"end":15596.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15596.42909375,"end":15613.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15598.437218750001,"end":15599.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15606.942218750002,"end":15607.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15607.00971875,"end":15607.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15608.933468750001,"end":15609.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15611.329718750003,"end":15611.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15614.282843750003,"end":15622.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15622.281593750002,"end":15622.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15623.294093750003,"end":15635.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15628.94721875,"end":15629.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15629.031593750002,"end":15629.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15629.43659375,"end":15629.470343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15629.470343750003,"end":15629.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15634.937843750002,"end":15635.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15635.54534375,"end":15640.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15640.92846875,"end":15646.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15646.21034375,"end":15646.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15646.969718750002,"end":15650.985968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15651.42471875,"end":15652.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15652.386593750001,"end":15662.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15660.840968750003,"end":15683.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15664.907843750003,"end":15665.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15665.582843750002,"end":15665.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15666.730343750001,"end":15667.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15667.13534375,"end":15667.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15669.09284375,"end":15669.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15669.531593750002,"end":15669.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15670.66221875,"end":15670.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15670.965968750003,"end":15671.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15672.012218750002,"end":15672.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15672.029093750003,"end":15672.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15676.73721875,"end":15676.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15676.770968750003,"end":15677.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15677.648468750001,"end":15679.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15679.926593750002,"end":15680.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15683.301593750002,"end":15683.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15684.128468750001,"end":15684.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15684.16221875,"end":15684.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15684.17909375,"end":15685.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15684.195968750002,"end":15684.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15685.360343750002,"end":15692.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15691.587218750003,"end":15694.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15693.46034375,"end":15699.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15699.535343750002,"end":15701.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15702.269093750001,"end":15704.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15706.11659375,"end":15721.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15721.40534375,"end":15722.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15723.24471875,"end":15748.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15748.97909375,"end":15750.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15751.35846875,"end":15753.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15753.41721875,"end":15769.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15768.925343750001,"end":15783.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15769.87034375,"end":15770.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15773.954093750002,"end":15775.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15775.050968750002,"end":15775.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15777.98721875,"end":15778.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15782.40846875,"end":15783.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15783.47159375,"end":15783.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15784.079093750002,"end":15798.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15784.09596875,"end":15784.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15797.477843750003,"end":15797.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15798.11909375,"end":15799.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15798.692843750003,"end":15807.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15807.19784375,"end":15807.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15807.282218750002,"end":15814.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15813.880343750003,"end":15819.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15820.259093750003,"end":15835.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":15826.18221875,"end":15826.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15826.199093750001,"end":15831.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15831.46409375,"end":15831.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15832.695968750002,"end":15832.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15832.93221875,"end":15834.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15834.67034375,"end":15834.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15836.374718750001,"end":15838.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15836.745968750001,"end":15836.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15836.762843750003,"end":15837.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15837.859718750002,"end":15837.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15838.382843750001,"end":15839.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15845.048468750003,"end":15861.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15861.99096875,"end":15862.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15862.04159375,"end":15865.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15869.702843750001,"end":15901.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15901.59659375,"end":15903.098468750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":145.817,"end":146.211,"text":"部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":228.914,"end":234.741,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":481.476,"end":483.148,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":631.596,"end":633.456,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":670.503,"end":671.143,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":718.08,"end":719.221,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":805.612,"end":806.883,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":848.951,"end":849.39,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":903.431,"end":904.767,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":1138.473,"end":1141.337,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":1369.019,"end":1370.23,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":1772.039,"end":1773.726,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":1862.233,"end":1879.607,"text":"我們現在請主秘報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員以主法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月7號星期四9時至11時58分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員林代化委員等14人列席委員洪孟凱委員等18人"},{"start":1891.877,"end":1908.466,"text":"立席人員國發會副主委高仙貴經濟部部長顧志輝農業部長次杜汶政外交部政次吳志忠大陸委員會副主委李麗珍經貿談判副總談判代表嚴慧心計個單位相關人員主席邱昭集委智偉"},{"start":1909.306,"end":1927.08,"text":"報告事項一、選舉上會議事錄決定確定二、邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長、行政院經貿談判辦公室首長、外交部首長、大陸委員會首長就我國當前經貿情勢分析及如何有效拓展國際經貿空間戰略規劃之相關政策作為"},{"start":1931.465,"end":1947.926,"text":"及申請加入TPP進度說明成員國立場分析與跨部會推動機制進行報告並備質詢。國發會高副主委、經濟部郭部長、外交部吳政次、農業部杜長次、經貿談判室"},{"start":1949.628,"end":1957.771,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容。"},{"start":1972.594,"end":2000.445,"text":"委員張家俊、林德福、邱志偉、陳冠廷、蔡玉瑜、賴會員、林倩啟及黃建斌所提書面質詢列入進入刊登公報。三、書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位一週內書面答覆並複製本會、散會。宣讀完畢。好。我們請問在場的委員我們上次的議事錄有無錯誤?好。沒有。我們議事錄確定。"},{"start":2003.536,"end":2004.56,"text":"我們繼續進行報告事項及討論事項一併宣讀。"},{"start":2009.209,"end":2026.223,"text":"第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案案。Reporter 李玉玲等人擬具動物保護法第12條條文修正草案案。Reporter 李玉玲等人擬具動物保護法第25條及第25條之一條文修正草案案。"},{"start":2041.47,"end":2053.767,"text":"第10條條文修正草案．案五、委員盧建國等人擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具動物保護法第25條之二條文修正草案"},{"start":2054.528,"end":2080.722,"text":"第14條之一、第14條之二及第30條條文修正草案案。八、委員徐巧欣等人擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。九、委員鄭天才等人擬具動物保護法第二條及第10條條文修正草案案。十、委員林坤澄等人擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。十一、委員廖先祥等人擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。十二、委員林坤澄等人擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。十一、委員廖先祥等人擬具"},{"start":2082.583,"end":2090.337,"text":"部分條文修正草案案十二本院臺灣民眾黨黨團擬具動物保護法部分條文修正草案案今日詢答宣讀完畢。"},{"start":2095.701,"end":2119.769,"text":"本日議程排定我國動物保護政策及執行的概況及動物保護法的修法規劃內容跟進程以及動物保護法部分條文修正草案那我們首先先介紹在場的委員林代化委員鄭天才委員徐曉新委員還有我們來介紹我們列席的機關首長農業部的陳俊記部長"},{"start":2124.27,"end":2142.777,"text":"動物保護司江文泉施長、訓務司李怡謙施長、法治處專門委員吳兆明委員、動植物防疫檢疫署署長邱垂章署長、"},{"start":2144.045,"end":2150.328,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2169.148,"end":2195.897,"text":"環境部的資源循環署專門委員秋俊雄委員教育部的資訊及科技教育師專門委員廖雙慶委員國民及學前教育署學安組的專門委員薛承佑委員法務部參事林豐文參事國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":2197.782,"end":2212.494,"text":"生命科學研究發展處副處長途鈞怡副處長國家實驗研究院國家實驗動物中心秦賢進主任現在我們依序請委員做提案的說明我們先請鄭天才委員"},{"start":2229.111,"end":2229.792,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":2251.488,"end":2272.959,"text":"首先是為了要針對這個進一步深化動物保護還有尊重生命的這個概念並且我們希望能夠跟國際動物保護的標準來接軌所以提出了動保法的部分條文進行修正那主要的目的是希望加強對動物的保護填補現行法制當中的不足"},{"start":2273.439,"end":2274.379,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":2292.604,"end":2319.897,"text":"以各種經濟目的而飼養或管領之動物但是並沒有談到繁殖這個部分所以在繁殖的部分我們也希望能夠一起納入管理再來是第10條的部分關於對於動物不得有以下的行為在現行的法條裡面在第10條的第三款這裡他寫到說以直接間接賭博或不當目的有虐待動物的相關情勢"},{"start":2321.218,"end":2338.923,"text":"可是我們知道現在在我們的動物保護的部分尤其關於民眾的期待他並不是只是虐待動物那或者是進行動物交換或贈與還包含娛樂遊戲營業或宣傳其實到現在也有一些新興的產業他透過動物的"},{"start":2341.864,"end":2344.847,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":2359.399,"end":2385.109,"text":"文化休閒比如說釣魚的話那這個我想不在所謂的這個娛樂遊戲營業宣傳當中那主要他還是這個包含比較不當的目的進行動物的交換或是贈與喔那但是呢像很多一些比如說撈魚的遊戲啊等等這一類的我們都希望在這個法令上面能夠有進一步的這個修正再來呢"},{"start":2386.189,"end":2408.101,"text":"第12條的部分關於因科學目的的這個相關宰殺我們可以看到原本是只有因科學應用目的那我們也希望說科學應用目的之外有實驗動物照護或是委員經小組審查的同意那為我們的實驗動物也能夠多一層的保護"},{"start":2410.524,"end":2426.321,"text":"關於實驗動物的部分我們在未來因為包含開過幾次公聽會那各方的討論之後也預計會有新的修正動議希望能夠在我們的實驗科學上面跟動物保護上面能夠找出一個平衡點"},{"start":2427.022,"end":2427.802,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":2443.007,"end":2466.516,"text":"其實其實都有很多在捕獵的時候產生那讓很多的動物產生斷腳跟斷手的這個狀況那其實對他們的生命來說是一種折磨那像先前才有新聞剛報導過就是有我們在山中的動物也是踩到了這個金屬材質的彈簧蓄壓式套索陷阱那就斷了一隻腳這樣子的問題其實一直都是有在出現的"},{"start":2472.338,"end":2486.619,"text":"所以我們希望呢這個可以能夠來處理那14條之二的部分是把金屬材質的彈簧蓄壓式套壓陷阱這個部分呢包含是如果這個所謂的陷阱他是不符合我們主管機關規定的"},{"start":2487.981,"end":2490.223,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2507.955,"end":2522.723,"text":"可我們只要在網路包含蝦皮上面都還是能夠買到便宜而且對於動物具備殺傷性的這些套索所以我們也希望在第15條之一能夠再行的一些有一些新的"},{"start":2524.468,"end":2551.087,"text":"法律上能夠來修正。第16條的部分關於實驗動物我們會再提出修正動議就像我剛剛提到的希望能夠符合我們的科學研究以及包含我們的動物保護所以我們希望全面禁止這些金屬材質的彈簧套所陷阱也禁止相關工具的製造販售持有"},{"start":2552.087,"end":2571.004,"text":"針對特定寵物的繁殖買賣也需要來自合法的來源並且要進行晶片的植入跟登記有助於追蹤寵物的來源也能減少偷渡跟非法繁殖的問題那這次的修法除了深化我國的動物保護概念也是希望能夠跟世界接軌將現行過於簡略"},{"start":2572.645,"end":2597.834,"text":"以及有疏漏的動保法能夠更加的縝密,為動物創造更加友善的尊嚴的生活環境,也希望院板能夠儘速的提出與討論。感謝。好,我們接下來請林宜玲委員一併說明兩項提案。"},{"start":2608.326,"end":2634.261,"text":"有關動保法的修法草案本席有兩個提案第一個就是動物保護法的第10條有鑒於動物保護的議題已經日成為我們國際社會的普世價值而我們國內的動物的動保的意識提升但是以動物作為交換及贈予的這個經濟行為意識越來越嚴重的在危害這動物的生命權所以臺灣"},{"start":2636.083,"end":2642.168,"text":"各地的夜市像市場跟園遊會的各種場域常常有的小動物作為付費遊戲的贈品的慣例像有大量的鼠、兔、魚跟鳥類的兩棲類還有爬蟲類等各種的飛犬貓科的這個動物被視為遊戲的贈品隨意的這個贈餘除了在現場的環境不佳遊戲的過程不人道"},{"start":2662.765,"end":2678.826,"text":"公會造成了這個動物的傷害後續更會衍生這飼養不當及棄養的問題同時會惡意傷害到動物致死的世界是時有所聞的也會引起這個整個社會的公憤所以先行的動物保護法的第10條第三款"},{"start":2680.428,"end":2692.242,"text":"雖然有明定對動物不得有的行為包含的就是以直接或是間接賭博或是其他不當的目的而有的虐待動物的情勢進行動物的交換或是贈與可是"},{"start":2695.465,"end":2714.079,"text":"有關遊戲與娛樂難以被歸納成賭博或不當的目的。只要是稽查當下沒有發現有明顯的虐待動物的狀況,往往是難以落實到動物的保護。所以要提案修正條文第10條,無論是否涉及到"},{"start":2714.739,"end":2715.7,"text":"內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":2730.179,"end":2733.041,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":2753.897,"end":2782.154,"text":"二指這個類似的事情那難以達成動物保護的目的所以有提高刑責罰金的這個必要另外就是有法規規定說定罪前提是以複數動物死亡為要件所以要刪除此前提並徵定暴力或施以其他理念的方式都應該予以重罰以嚇阻虐待動物之行徑一再發生"},{"start":2786.861,"end":2814.986,"text":"好,我們現在請林代化委員提案說明。好,本席針對動物保護法提案第14條之一跟14條之二跟第14條跟第30條除非是全面禁止我們不受獎含金屬材質之彈簧蓄壓式套索陷阱"},{"start":2815.686,"end":2841.017,"text":"全面禁止這邊就是俗稱的山豬吊因為這樣的一個山豬吊物傷動物的事件層出不窮讓動物承受不必要的痛苦所以呢在加強管制明文禁止其使用山豬吊製造販賣陳列持有或廣告交絕輸出入而且也把網際網路平台都限制山豬吊的瀏覽"},{"start":2841.857,"end":2868.11,"text":"提出這樣刪除掉的違法管頁的義務。這個明定在這個時事條之一跟時事條之二。那對於我們目前現行的動物保護法雖然有禁止售假的使用、製造、販賣或輸出入多年但就是針對刪除掉這件事情只有用公告禁止使用的行政處分而為了明文立法禁止"},{"start":2869.491,"end":2881.364,"text":"這個製造販賣陳列廣告教學或輸出路最為防堵漏洞增列了禁止連持有都不可有這個也是這本席的提案只有刪輸掉這個也是這個納入規範內好以上謝謝"},{"start":2893.437,"end":2899.305,"text":"現在請農業部陳部長就報告事項及各委員提案進行報告。"},{"start":2911.89,"end":2925.8,"text":"稍為還有我們各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早那今天本人就奉邀到大院經濟委員會來報告我國動物保護業務執行概況及動物保護法修法的規劃內容與進程"},{"start":2927.561,"end":2942.642,"text":"在報告之前我想還是再度感謝所有的委員過去對農業的一個支持以下就用簡報的方式跟各位說明我們現在動物保護的業務跟未來修法的一個方向大概分五個部分請參閱"},{"start":2947.248,"end":2970.636,"text":"其實在87年動物保護法實施以後就一直陸續的就在政府單位在持續的一個推動那去年8月我們成立了動保師以外真正的更聚焦在整個動物保護的業務那整個動物保護的業務大概分為四個面向包括整個動物保護的一個行政然後怎麼樣去建構友善的動物的社會那另外並針對整個"},{"start":2973.397,"end":2982.507,"text":"重物的一生怎麼樣去落實他的一個照護的一個工作那最後就是說把我們的動物保護一定要跟國際同步的一個接軌"},{"start":2985.646,"end":3013.959,"text":"那針對動物保護業務的寵物管理的部分就正如剛才委員有提到的就是我們對於寵物的照顧絕對不是一個時間點而已我們一定是從牠的出生到死亡做一個全面的照顧那包括從出生的部分的時候包括上游的寵物的買賣繁殖到整個的一個生育期間裡面我們所必須要處理的就是有關於寵物的食品然後寵物的用品"},{"start":3015.26,"end":3031.277,"text":"還有新興的一些寵物的美容、寄養還有訓練保險。這個部分大概都在寵物的一生裡面。大概生育期裡面最重要的相關的業務。至於在另外一類的就是非寵物類的就是一些展演動物的話我想我們也必須適度的做一些規範。"},{"start":3032.358,"end":3041.585,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動"},{"start":3061.94,"end":3076.136,"text":"分類分級的一個管理的部分然後我們也推動了寵物的一個身分證那特別是強化國人所關注的有關於寵物食品安全的部分那寵物的食品安全後來我們決定變成一個專法因為在動物"},{"start":3076.817,"end":3078.378,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":3094.284,"end":3116.893,"text":"也已經預告。另一個部分就是全面推動寵物的事業的輔導與管理,特別是針對強化寵物繁殖買賣的一個溯源跟流向的管理,然後訂定相關的一個定型化的一個契約的部分。在113年度我們也預告了就是貓的部分我們希望說應該辦理一個登記,因為所有的管理的部分如果沒有"},{"start":3117.293,"end":3143.586,"text":"在登記的一個前提之下那後續如果走私到外地的時候就很難去做一個管理另外我們也針對三大比較重要的犬、貓及小型的哺乳類我們也訂定了飼養跟照護的一個指南我們希望都透過照護的指南能夠讓飼主有一個比較好的一個飼養的跟這些寵物的一個互動"},{"start":3144.566,"end":3171.73,"text":"同樣的我們在9月5號也剛才也說了我們已經預告了整個寵物食品的一個專法的部分然後也預告了修正寵物食品病原為生物與有害健康植物這些安全容許量的一個標準那這些修訂都是針對近期發生的一些寵物食品的一些可能的一些問題來產生的然後第二個部分是針對友善動物利用的部分"},{"start":3172.09,"end":3194.135,"text":"除了寵物以外其實動物還有經濟動物還有展演動物所以我們在動物現在的動物保護業務裡面其實我們也針對這些動物展演的管理我們在今年的7月29號發布了動物展演的一個管理辦法然後很明定的動物展演的飼養管理的一個指南你所有的展演動物必須根據相關的管理指南才能夠"},{"start":3195.335,"end":3217.982,"text":"當作一個很好的依詢。那針對動物的實驗的部分,那動物的實驗其實包括農業部包括國科會還有包括教育部相關的學員單位對這個部分都蠻重視的就是整個動物實驗他一定要符合三個原則就是3R的原則就是取代減量跟精緻化就是說能夠用"},{"start":3218.962,"end":3221.564,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":3241.039,"end":3270.659,"text":"也會去查核相關能夠從事動物實驗的這些機關去確認它是不是符合上海的原則那最後一部分就是友善畜牧飼養的部分就是剛才也有委員說到其實動物也包含了經濟動物那經濟動物當然是為人類的食用所目的而飼養的但是在飼養的過程中我們也希望說有更好的一個飼養的一個指南能夠讓動物在飼養的過程中能夠得到一個比較友善的一個管理"},{"start":3271.399,"end":3272.68,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":3300.899,"end":3304.221,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":3325.196,"end":3328.857,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":3350.984,"end":3352.587,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":3367.129,"end":3393.79,"text":"設計一個所謂的衛星的一個認養認養的中繼站的概念來達到經過收容以後再再度被認養的一個觀念然後透過這四個推動策略我們未來我想我們還是會去強調現在目前所遭遇到人犬衝突跟還有犬隻跟野生動物的一個衝突的高風險熱區的這些防範那接下來我想第二個部分要跟各位"},{"start":3394.95,"end":3412.096,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法修法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內"},{"start":3424.44,"end":3443.626,"text":"修正草案提出來以後其實我們獲得外界的非常非常多的不同的意見那這個不同的意見我想我們收集了以後那有些意見是有一些想法是大家都有共識的但是有一些想法有一些主張是"},{"start":3444.426,"end":3461.029,"text":"有很大的一個分歧的部分那後來我們在內部就討論了然後包括我們在第一屆的在113年2月2號的時候就在那個第一次的動物保護之一委員會裡面去做討論那最後有一個共識就是"},{"start":3461.99,"end":3486.461,"text":"當我們收集到外面的這些條次還有主張如果有共識的我們就先來推那如果說還是有正義的時候我們就先擱置一邊我們繼續做溝通而不是不處理繼續做溝通那這樣的話也才能夠讓我們的版本能夠繼續往前走那在這樣的一個情況之下我想我們在113年4月16以後我們就進到相關的法制作業"},{"start":3487.601,"end":3513.273,"text":"含有我們在部裡面經過了三次的一個法規會的一個審查那我們在今年的8月16號已經正式的合轉立法就是已經報請行政院合轉立法院審議那在行政院的過程中他要經過審查那在9月30號也經過第一次的一個召開相關的會選會去了解整個的動物保護法的相關的內涵那預計在11月下旬會增"},{"start":3514.514,"end":3531.803,"text":"部分條文修正草案 正式針對行政院正式針對動物保護法的這些部分修正條文草案做相關的確認那確認完了以後我們是預計希望說能夠在12月的時候能夠送進到立法院能夠並召會所主持的這樣的一個審查一起來討論這樣的話會讓整個的法條會比較周延"},{"start":3535.865,"end":3550.739,"text":"整個我們動保法的一個新修法的這個修法的一個規劃裡面大概有分為五個面向那最重要還是要去加強事主的責任跟他的動物收容的一個管理那同時我們也會強化動物的保護"},{"start":3552.961,"end":3554.842,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":3578.51,"end":3581.191,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．"},{"start":3597.759,"end":3598.84,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":3627.919,"end":3648.502,"text":"具有共識性的部分,就是在委員裡面提到就是說納管非以營利為目的飼養全貓達到一定規模的大量飼養戶。那在部裡的立場我想基本上我們要明確棄養動物的一個構成要件並建構我國寵物分類分級的一個管理制度。那整個相關的"},{"start":3649.343,"end":3652.145,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":3666.397,"end":3695.717,"text":"非以營利為目的飼養貓犬達到一定規模的大量飼養者。我想我們必須要考慮到現在既有的民間的狗場的一些衝擊。其實我們蠻擔心的這些民間的狗場如果做就是沒有一個過渡期直接去做納管的時候可能會造成一些棄養更多的一個棄養潮因為當你的狗場進入納養的時候相對的它的承載量都有一定的規範那我們希望說"},{"start":3696.858,"end":3704.224,"text":"這個部分可以再做逐步的溝通讓民間的管場逐步的符合我們的規範以後我們再把它政治的一個納管"},{"start":3705.286,"end":3724.886,"text":"第二部分是針對動物收容管理的部分委員提案的重點包括了針對動物收容所具有長期照護私能動物的法定義務並也針對中央及地方執行動物救援的法定義務這兩條是比較重要的"},{"start":3726.568,"end":3747.934,"text":"本部的立場就是其實自從林菩薩政策以來對於這些已經失能的就是說所謂的根委員所說的長期照顧失能的這些動物我們會解除這個收容所的常採的壓力我們可以實施人道的一個安樂死來維持整個動物收容的一個"},{"start":3749.674,"end":3752.197,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":3764.531,"end":3782.165,"text":"我想大方向是我們是覺得說應該去做的但是在考慮到整個後端的收容量的問題還有相關的這些遊蕩犬的管理會有一些相關的一個一個競合的一個影響那這個部分也請委員做考量"},{"start":3782.925,"end":3805.618,"text":"第二部分是針對有關於中央地方救援的法定義務的部分那其實現在目前如果說遇到有一些通報的部分我想各地的農業局的部分跟相關的動保單位都會在第一時間去協助來處理那如果放到法裡面去當法定的業務的話那相關的依法就必須要成立24小時的專線電話然後執行緊急診療驗傷採證的一系列的標準的措施"},{"start":3812.102,"end":3813.403,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":3837.484,"end":3852.432,"text":"第三個部分是有關於動物保護環境面的部分委員的提案大部分是擴大禁止基於經濟目的以動物交換或贈予的行為樣態包括剛才徐老師、徐委員所提到的一些"},{"start":3853.353,"end":3857.596,"text":"有關於娛樂的部分我們建議是有一些相關的但書的一個規定因為在娛樂的部分我們在預告的時候有非常非常多的"},{"start":3877.312,"end":3883.336,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":3904.25,"end":3908.437,"text":"其他不受禁止的這些條件的話也許可以在但書裡面去做一個規範"},{"start":3911.291,"end":3916.075,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":3937.552,"end":3939.836,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":3956.217,"end":3979.823,"text":"有非常多的農作物受到一些野生動物的這些侵擾的部分所以這個金屬那個山豬掉的部分我們是希望還維持但是我們在法院裡面有一個授權中央主管機關公告那他的意思就是說當我們的金屬改良式的金屬套座達到一定一定的普及化的時候那我們用公告的方式來做一個禁止"},{"start":3981.322,"end":4000.395,"text":"委員另外也針對動物保護環境裡面提到了有關於網路附有限制瀏覽或移除違反法規的相關的規定。這個部分跟我們抱怨的版本是相符的。我們表示尊重並給予同意支持的一個立場。"},{"start":4001.235,"end":4027.984,"text":"條文修正草案：提到的就是我們應該加強我們動物實驗的科學管理的部分那就正如剛才我說的我們現在針對實驗動物的3R的部分包括減量替代跟精緻化這個部分那這個部分我想在兩三年前我們已經從事跨部會的合作的部分已經在做了所以我們在這個部分就是已經在做的這個過程中"},{"start":4029.688,"end":4042.475,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動"},{"start":4058.883,"end":4082.422,"text":"在這一點的部分我們是建議就是能夠尋求更多的共識特別是針對學研單位在從事醫藥開發的需要動物實驗的這些單位我們做一個比較好的一個溝通再來處理那在還沒有處理之前我想我們還是會透過現在目前我們三拿的政策去做有效的一個管理跟它的一個精緻化"},{"start":4084.283,"end":4106.999,"text":"這個部分是在寵物產業管理的部分那剛才也說到了我們針對寵物的業者應該設置專業的人員而且要有在職的訓練然後同時我們會加強繁殖買賣特定寵物的源頭管理的部分那這個部分跟我們抱怨的版本是相符的所以我們也表示尊重並支持這樣的一個修法"},{"start":4108.319,"end":4134.314,"text":"有關於寵物食品安全的部分剛才也說了寵物食品的部分有非常委員一直在爭取在關注所以我們特別把寵物食品當作一個專法它不是納到動保法裡面去處理用專法的方式那專法已經在9月15號9月5號已經預告了那後續我想寵物食品的管理法的部分我想我們留在那個專法裡面再來做一個處理"},{"start":4135.875,"end":4152.808,"text":"有關於動檢員的部分相關的擴大動物保護檢察員的行政調查的權能跟他可以在特定的條件之下進到私領域做一個強制的一個措施與本部抱怨的版本是相同的我們表示尊重也支持"},{"start":4153.929,"end":4175.654,"text":"有關於嚇阻虐待動物的部分。相關的嚇阻虐待部分,特別是有委員提到,就是致其肢體嚴重殘屬,或者是重要器官喪失行為的行徒,要做一些行徒的一個加強的部分。本部原則上是尊重跟支持,但是因為牽涉到"},{"start":4176.934,"end":4193.359,"text":"有關於刑法的部分有關於刑法的這些橫平性的部分我們是建議應該還要與法務部或是司法單位的一個意見就是他的一個刑度跟他的橫平性跟其他法的相關的橫平性我們是做這樣的一個建議"},{"start":4195.575,"end":4215.701,"text":"那有關於走私的部分被銷毀的形式規範的部分那我們基本上因為整個的一個走私不只是動物而已還有其他的東西的部分那我們還是建議說這樣子的一個走私的一個形式的處罰的規定我們是建議回歸到走私的相關的作用法"},{"start":4216.442,"end":4232.764,"text":"像海關的氣質條例、城市走私的案來管理才不會造成就是一罪由不同的法律來做相關的一個處理。這是有關於嚇阻虐待動物的部分。那有關於另外就是"},{"start":4235.321,"end":4262.297,"text":"綠帶傷害動物的行為人的部分那委員也有版本建議說必須經過衛生主管機關評估有沒有必要必要的時候法院的命令這些行為人接受認知教育跟心理輔導的部分那這個部分我想因為涉及人的部分涉及人的心理治療跟專業還有心理矯正的實務執行的部分那我們是建議這個部分可能必須要跟衛務部"},{"start":4263.197,"end":4267.683,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":4280.96,"end":4310.04,"text":"最後我想再次感謝我們的委員提供了這麼多的版本這麼多的版本我們也經過了分析大部分的版本都跟我們抱怨的版本是一致的我們都一起努力有一部分是有業爭議的我們也提出來有業爭議可能必須洽詢其他的部會來參考意見有一些爭議的我們也建議說我們可以在實務面做先行的這些處理然後到整個的實際成熟以後再正式納入法規也希望"},{"start":4310.881,"end":4316.89,"text":"這樣的一個動物保護法在未來我們行政院版本送到立法院以後能夠並案來一個審查。以上報告。好。"},{"start":4324.389,"end":4347.134,"text":"經濟部跟內政部及國家科學及技術委員會的書面報告,請委員自行參閱並刊登公報。今天的議程有兩案,我們合併詢答。在委員詢答前本席先做以下的宣告。本會委員是5加1分鐘,非本會委員4分鐘,在上午10點30分鐘截止發言登記。我們請林代化委員諮詢。要請部長。請陳部長。"},{"start":4359.507,"end":4371.921,"text":"部長,我聽了你的簡報。從你的簡報的到整個我看了,很認真聽。到你第九頁之前,我覺得叫做了無新意。"},{"start":4372.895,"end":4394.814,"text":"沒有進步性、沒有前瞻性、沒有動物福利都是假的你看你的第三頁你在講到說動物保護業務執行項目的願景跟重要完善動物保護行政體系你這邊有提到提升收容動物保護品質那這些的動物有沒有要輸血的必要性呢"},{"start":4395.695,"end":4400.72,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":4420.765,"end":4427.447,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":4447.674,"end":4449.495,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":4468.303,"end":4491.517,"text":"你也沒有納入啊你說你們的法案當中的這個有加強事主責任動檢員的執法賦權提升動物收容強化保護精進寵物產業你又講到捐輸血他們都不需要捐輸血嗎那你知不知職犬貓非營利雪庫"},{"start":4493.137,"end":4512.328,"text":"你支不支持?簡單回答我。支持或不支持?我跟委員做兩個說明有關於像動物的像寵物的相關的這個血庫的部分他是在執行面的一個問題我們今天處理的是一個動保法最上位的法規我現在是針對你的業務報告跟你的法規當中有沒有納入"},{"start":4513.268,"end":4515.93,"text":"你可以在選一當中單獨立法我也支持我也強力支持你要在動物保護法當中你要稍微提是你要去納入我也沒意見至少你的業務的本頁你從第一頁到第你的簡報到第六頁都在講你到第五頁都在講你整個動物保護的業務跟法"},{"start":4536.644,"end":4537.985,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":4546.411,"end":4546.871,"text":"公然在這個執行會當中說謊我在執行來"},{"start":4572.06,"end":4590.775,"text":"二月二十七號我總質詢陳建仁院長是生意背景他完全理解我在講什麼他也覺得這個重要而且還請你們農業部三個月內提出公益血庫的規劃方案建立完善侵血政策及管理好四月十一號在經濟委員會當中我也提出質詢也把我的構想再講一次給你們農業部聽在犬貓血庫管理總部"},{"start":4599.542,"end":4614.949,"text":"與軍輸血液推廣平台不是只有完善學校的硬體設施你們現在做的就這樣好我說你在明明你就在在在說謊你說你哪有支持水火你們開了第三次會好這第三次會誰來參加學者專家啊獸醫師公會再來兩個兩個業者專門在提供啊這個血這個腫貓腫腫貓腫腫腫腫腫腫腫的兩個業者來"},{"start":4627.694,"end":4644.671,"text":"其他就沒有了。好,那講什麼呢?帶你們建議國內現在已有犬貓血液保存及供應據點不令見實體的血庫以建制供血呢這個犬貓資訊媒合平台整合國內供血網路"},{"start":4646.272,"end":4650.133,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":4675.899,"end":4685.09,"text":"你部長根本不重視你們這個業務是動保師師長在處理還是房間署署長上來根本就沒有重視你部長不重視署長也不重視你們那個副組長從我們高雄上來的我問他他一問三不知"},{"start":4697.884,"end":4713.54,"text":"所以你還說你支持工藝雪庫你知道嗎?我告訴你 我跟你們報告喔針對這個雪庫的部分我開了不下五次的會議但是裡面因為人的雪庫跟動物的雪庫第一個雪的品質跟穩定這個一定要先確保好啦我們這樣你支持我再給你一次機會你支不支持動"},{"start":4715.121,"end":4718.263,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":4739.355,"end":4751.227,"text":"之後他換個名字去年8月25號再爆出他改個名字叫心態然後也是超抽血拳牟利你們有管嗎?"},{"start":4752.145,"end":4752.665,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":4782.325,"end":4806.823,"text":"雪原的檢疫雪原的保存你光是商業的部分你都沒有商業部分也沒有你的這個是白紙黑字喔你商業部分主責然後誰要去媒合是你是你房錢房錢我跟委員報告齁就是現在目前的雪原的部分供雪的品質是一個好那再來我再戳破你動物接觸雪爭議不斷部長你看新聞"},{"start":4810.385,"end":4811.405,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":4825.911,"end":4828.732,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":4847.759,"end":4848.86,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":4864.254,"end":4878.208,"text":"這件事情在國內當中沒有一個立委在質詢啊你也沒有立委在關心啊但也不是我厲害我這個立委沒做厲害是人民向我陳情是因為有事主在我的臉書上留言"},{"start":4879.409,"end":4902.744,"text":"所以我接受民意的陳情下去追之後才知道你知道法治局我就好那法治局有沒有這個相關的報告有啊107年法治局就做出報告了他說我們沒有法源啊現況也是混亂啊這所以也不是我講民意也講立法院的法治107年就做出報告有沒有動物血液公益平台的必要性有"},{"start":4904.065,"end":4905.606,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":4920.057,"end":4937.792,"text":"工業部務必建立非營利雪庫的雪貓雪庫以糧幣取足劣幣,讓市主選擇健康安全的動物血液來源並落實動物保護。第二個,針對現有市場的這個商業機制提出具體的管理辦法所以在這邊請你們立刻"},{"start":4940.174,"end":4963.046,"text":"提出犬貓非營利雪庫及平台完整的規劃方案。從我這個陳建仁院長到現在也至少快9個月以上了那你們一定要北中南雪庫的據點具體規劃以及第二個現有市場的商業機制請你農業部提出具體的管理方案這樣是一週內給本席可以嗎?"},{"start":4964.312,"end":4964.652,"text":"我跟委員報告齁"},{"start":4985.741,"end":4995.984,"text":"現在有領有你們農業部暫時的農委會捐助的屏東科大。他是你們支持的耶。結果你們把他放在一邊。回答我的具體要求啦。回答我的具體要求啦。一個禮拜待會是嗎?"},{"start":5005.09,"end":5025.438,"text":"我們可以提供一個禮拜可以提供將近一年了沒有作為說叫做動物保護說叫做動物福利你這邊講的全部都是過往動物保護科在做的然後你的這個署長完全無作為這個提案那麼久了"},{"start":5026.775,"end":5052.83,"text":"然後針對非營利的雪庫跟現有的商業機制完全沒法源沒裁罰然後呢讓雇主讓我們的事主就這個白白的花那些的大把的錢結果得到的是我的寵物我的遊蕩犬的捐輸權益動物福利也沒有一個禮拜提供相關的我的這個具體要求可以嗎可以我把我們現在的進度可以跟委員報告"},{"start":5053.7,"end":5077.84,"text":"那你這邊在講明喔你是要建立非營利非全顧平台我支持你的雙軌因為就現有的商業機制你也得處理它現在是雙軌我是支持的但是這兩個你都做不好第一個是沒有做第一個是管不好好一個禮拜可以嗎對我剛才說我們一個禮拜會提供我們現在目前的規劃的進度給你好請陳部長到我們林委員辦公室去說明"},{"start":5084.038,"end":5112.27,"text":"好請賴瑞龍委員質詢好謝謝召委請陳部長請陳部長部長今天談動物寵物的問題那我先請教一下綠葉蜥原先也是寵物但最現在它因為整個棄養的問題甚至於整個繁衍的問題其實造成了中南部很大的一個困擾"},{"start":5113.83,"end":5131.574,"text":"幾乎我看今年度各包括高雄、嘉義、台南、屏東都大量遇到這樣問題那對於農作物的影響相當的大那我看到今年幾乎已經到目前為止我看幾乎抓了3萬隻了那先問一下部長有沒有掌握全台大概多少數量"},{"start":5132.403,"end":5150.931,"text":"我們現在全台的數量就是還沒有辦法很精準的掌握但是我們出估了總要出估你總要出估才有辦法去預測未來怎麼樣去解決這個問題嗎我們的估計基本上大概現在是現在我們捕捉量的將近三倍所以大概將近十萬隻"},{"start":5153.553,"end":5157.316,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5173.939,"end":5190.795,"text":"我覺得相當嚴重他對於農作物而且如果更大型的話但他不會主動去但是他大型的時候他事實上對人其實會產生一些驚擾的對驚擾他大這麼大型的一個而且他的蘇南怪三年就成熟然後一年"},{"start":5191.676,"end":5213.513,"text":"有機會30顆到80顆蛋所以它的成長速度會非常非常的快你看我們從幾年前到現在已經增長成這樣那現在靠地方政府每次這樣抓抓抓我看屏東的部分原來變200萬不夠再追加第二預備金追加100萬我看光現在今年的3萬隻大概就要花掉600萬的經費部長有沒有更好的方式來協助地方政府來統籌因為"},{"start":5214.614,"end":5218.938,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5239.737,"end":5256.237,"text":"這個大概會很難處理。部長那個農業部的解方是什麼?我想第一個部分就是我們會當然一定要有經費去支持這個部分我想我們會來處理那第二個部分就是我們也在開始思考跟地方政府合作就是增加用槍枝移植的一個可能性"},{"start":5256.778,"end":5260.081,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":5280.277,"end":5303.733,"text":"部長,我認為要一鼓作氣的一次把他的那個數量跟族群一次的控制住啦,不然你20、30、40、50這樣子擴展出去,那個只會越來嚴重,越來難以防、那如果你有效的有一次的經費,也基本比較多一點點經費一次有效的跟縣市政府合作,然後因為他都在西邊河邊嘛,有效的控制算,如果你控制把它控制回到5萬隻、3萬隻的話,你就比較好去嚇阻住他的傷害。"},{"start":5310.077,"end":5313.278,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5336.383,"end":5337.884,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5358.051,"end":5377.456,"text":"這個困擾一定會越來越嚴重,阿這個會形成農業部最後的一個大問題。好,謝謝委員提醒,我想我會後一定會成立一個專業小組去處理。成立一個小組好不好,成立一個小組,跨部會間的,跨局處間的小組,跨縣市間的小組,然後用專案的方式,那用一筆經費,比較大的一筆經費,一口氣把它做一個有效的控制住它的數量好不好。"},{"start":5377.856,"end":5379.297,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5403.175,"end":5425.132,"text":"現在高麗菜我看早上我看了一下還有一百多塊就是市場價格很好那高麗菜價好當然大家就搶中特別是冬天要到了那農業部也一直預警這個接下來已經到了紅色甚至是到了紫色的提醒這很嚴重了啦不要到了到時候又是這個對賤賣甚至於要除根等等的"},{"start":5425.552,"end":5447.919,"text":"部長會不會又走成這樣的地步?我跟委員報告就是我們高麗菜已經針對它的育鳥數量還有包括空拍的方式去有一個監測系統那我們現在會針對每一群會發布警報的部分然後也告訴農民你已經超種了你再種下去然後第二個部分就是過往很多超種的都是等待政府因為量多我就去去耕除"},{"start":5448.559,"end":5449.961,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5463.84,"end":5481.196,"text":"就是要不然這樣問題永遠變成反正我大量搶種啊如果價格好我賣就獲利嘛那搶種啊不好價格不好就是耕儲反正我還這個一公頃7萬這樣來收那這樣的結果變成完全就失去不是把國家的最大的資源花在最大的效益上"},{"start":5481.957,"end":5497.914,"text":"對,所以我在這邊具體的承諾就是說應該是我們的政策啦我們不會再針對高麗菜如果經過我們的提醒它還繼續種造成爆量的時候價格崩盤的時候我們農業部絕對不會用耕除的補助方式去處理"},{"start":5498.234,"end":5500.395,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":5526.523,"end":5554.228,"text":"最後一個我問一下,操司大家一直在講操司的問題。操司部長你跟陳其聰前部長跟林聰前部長都被去問過了嗎?有沒有任何問題?我跟委員報告我被那個政察官約談是以被告的身份去約談的。那被告的理由是因為在去年在我擔任代理部長的期間我接續處理雞蛋的問題的時候有被"},{"start":5555.228,"end":5558.449,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":5584.236,"end":5605.021,"text":"檢察院常常對各部會有很多的糾正但是我要講的是在政策上面有沒有涉及到貪腐有沒有涉及到違法的部分我所知道是沒有對我個人來講絕對坦蕩蕩所以部長你的部分是沒有那農業部的部分有沒有我以我的認知的了解是沒有的那我要再問最後一個"},{"start":5606.161,"end":5634.96,"text":"基蛋在缺蛋的時候大家要求連蛋都買不到的時候要求要想辦法弄蛋來所以農業部想辦法用金融法只要能夠找得到蛋來用合法的方式引進來台灣結果大家吃到蛋了現在等到又開始要追問就是說你為什麼當時買這麼多蛋甚至圖利我覺得這個部分兩個政策之間是出現一些問題的就是說沒有蛋的時候毛起來罵你你連蛋都吃不到你農業部在幹什麼"},{"start":5635.52,"end":5635.92,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5657.821,"end":5660.283,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5683.474,"end":5703.172,"text":"在做一些操作跟撥動啦但當然不是很明顯這個請部長還是要持力努力去做處理好不好對我們還是會持力去處理這個部分請問兩個問題我們克服之後然後總計我們進來當然彈量多了啦但是那我最後一個問一個啦那未來還會走這個進口彈這樣的一個路線嗎當缺彈的時候未來如果真的缺彈的話我們是用"},{"start":5703.932,"end":5706.353,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":5732.098,"end":5755.875,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":5762.799,"end":5783.066,"text":"林宜玲等22人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案案 案件 〈一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九、十、九"},{"start":5787.816,"end":5806.736,"text":"那我們之前也說過了提高公糧的價格的時候會有一些影響但是我們也會尊重整個主決議的部分針對公糧的收購價格在7月16號的這個主決議的精神之下我們去處理它的一個配套的措施你的配套要達到我們那一天大家有共識的每公斤調高五塊錢"},{"start":5809.121,"end":5811.782,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":5838.749,"end":5843.61,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":5864.81,"end":5891.509,"text":"公糧收購都沒調嘛那天我特別問你啊那你自己當公務員你都已經調了五百嘛對不對你那天還回嗆我喔我說如果農民這次你公糧收購你沒有調我說你就沒有資格調薪了因為身為農業部長連農民都照顧不好對不對你後來回嗆我一句話你說我不調薪你就不調對不對那我現在公開宣布我不調薪嘛那如果後來一定要調我們把這個錢捐出去"},{"start":5892.887,"end":5921.446,"text":"所以你是不是也要捐出來我告訴你我捐不捐我不需要公開不要公開你都嗆我說不要調了你還不公開我告訴你我要捐一個對象我覺得不會公開我要捐東西要捐到需要的地方跟需要的人我在沒有當部長之前我每一年我都有去捐錢捐到相關的社福單位所以我不需要再用高調的方式去處理這個捐的事情"},{"start":5923.664,"end":5948.086,"text":"重點是你有沒有照顧到農民像我捐的很清楚是因為你提的這個點你提說我不調金你就不調對不對那我們現在是全部把錢就捐出來明年調了3%全部都捐那我很清楚因為你這次是因為供糧我就捐給我很清楚的公佈就捐給嘉義嘉義的稻米產銷班那你要捐給誰你到時候你要低調沒關係可是你還讓外界很清楚知道你因為照顧農民"},{"start":5950.618,"end":5951.702,"text":"是你先提的嗎?"},{"start":5951.702,"end":5952.464,"text":"這不是我先提的喔?"},{"start":5954.242,"end":5982.754,"text":"你直接嗆說委員不調你就不調對不對我沒有說委員不調我說你調你捐我就跟著捐不是喔我說你捐我就跟著捐喔我是這樣講喔你當初是說我不調不是嗆你沒關係你說要更正說我捐你就捐OK啦那我們就是要捐出來那我跟你講很清楚我捐給稻米產修班因為重點他們在第一線嘛他們最清楚整個公糧收購的問題不要坐在冷氣房裡面部長你不要坐在冷氣房裡面我告訴你我在舔你的時間一定比你多"},{"start":5983.174,"end":5986.435,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":6010.799,"end":6032.854,"text":"我在上個月問監察院秘書長李靜益的時候李靜益清清楚楚的表達這個案子等北檢北檢現在正在查什麼時候會再約你去也有可能啦陳吉仲也有可能所以再邀嘛約完之後李靜益來我們看李靜益在回答我的質詢的時候要清楚講等北檢調查完之後監察院一定會提出彈劾"},{"start":6034.07,"end":6036.871,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":6063.098,"end":6086.537,"text":"一千多萬顆那那個氮氣要怎麼處理?那是人民的納稅錢,它是寄在冷氣房吹冷氣嗎?寄到會有人民納稅錢嗎?你要把它銷毀還是要怎麼處理?我想在還沒過期之前我們會在適當的時間釋出但是我要跟委員報告一件事情當初的這些庫存的部分在當初去年3月的時候那個時候大家在缺氮的時候也同時有一個決議說"},{"start":6087.658,"end":6107.033,"text":"我們也要建立一個安全的庫存的水位所以當你去用安全庫存的角度的時候他當他過期的時候消費他必須要消費的那現在目前國外的整個來源蛋廠我們都已經掌握了所以後續我們不會再從政府去進口我們用貿易商來處理的部分"},{"start":6107.193,"end":6108.934,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":6123.408,"end":6148.487,"text":"對啦當然如果市面上現在蛋價是低的產量是夠的對不對你就不能夠這時候去推翻可是很重要你不要放啦放放到又壞掉了好不好這個是這個要弄清楚事實上現在台北市政府的衛生局現在已經去查了叫各個縣市政府你這段時間賣出去的蛋有沒有過期我們再查這個我們持續在追有沒有用到過期的蛋另外很重要的就是人民的錢這是一共搬了多少錢出去15億嘛對不對"},{"start":6150.376,"end":6153.318,"text":"本院委員林宜瑾等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":6171.782,"end":6184.312,"text":"這個10億應該這麼講齁就是由續產會自有資金出那自由續產會是跟農業金庫做融資他融資了15億那5億是豬肉10億是雞蛋融資了15億10億是雞蛋然後現在已經還了剩下應該是3000應該是3000多萬吧"},{"start":6190.797,"end":6219.513,"text":"大概剩下3800多萬其他都還了。我覺得這兩個很重要的問題嘛。中央巿長會大部分的錢是我們人民納稅錢你補助給他的嘛。這是第一個。這裡面浪費問題。第二個更重要的。那農業部又透過農業金庫把錢給他。裡面沒有發生你防避的這個功能。這裡面很重要喔。你今天農金署的副署長有來對不對?副署長你本身也是農業金庫的常董嘛對不對?"},{"start":6220.421,"end":6237.411,"text":"大家就要問啊,農業部對於可能有產生一個弊案或者人民納稅錢被浪費的,你看現在北檢也查了。它已經是一個弊案了。當初為什麼沒有一個防止的機制?你說不要買那麼多,或者你買的時候要有一個機制,包括你這個錢怎麼會搬出去?你們當初有討論嗎?"},{"start":6239.432,"end":6244.055,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":6269.151,"end":6284.262,"text":"這個案子因為是農業部所屬單位的貸款所以當時我們有自主迴避公股的部分公股的部分有自主迴避沒有參與這個案件的審議所以你去開會你是沒有參與這個討論的我為什麼問這個問題很嚴重第一個從農業金庫搬錢出去"},{"start":6289.927,"end":6305.236,"text":"包括北檢都要查啊,每個人都要問啊,我們這邊那些錢被搬出去啊那誰做了這個決策?誰蓋了章?那現在你們的講法?你們派去的代表是沒有參與討論對不對?公股代表沒有參與討論公股代表?那為什麼不參加討論?"},{"start":6307.711,"end":6331.2,"text":"是回避責任嗎?不是,因為他是農業部所屬單位的貸款。那因為我們是農業部指派的公股代表,所以我們有自主回避沒有參與這個案件的責任。這是錢誰決定讓他搬出去了。這個當初,我第一個很明確要求,柏定,那天開會的資料一個禮拜面給我。當天誰參加開會,誰表達的意見,有沒有反對意見?"},{"start":6333.046,"end":6335.587,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":6357.264,"end":6375.11,"text":"好不好?你先檢討這個儘管會絕對不會派任何一個人到我們的公營的這個營養裡面去當董事嘛為什麼我們的農業部派了一個人進去當這個常務董事這已經是個問題了第二個現在農業金庫發生很多問題喔虧損累累農業金庫虧損累累第一是草書記的問題為什麼把錢搬出去這個結束的過程造成了弊案第二個最近你買了一堆的美債"},{"start":6385.782,"end":6413.255,"text":"美國的再信買了多少?一千三百億。現在說至少可能會虧損五十億。所以最近這幾年連那個股息都沒辦法發。你農業金庫在開會的時候你的董監事到底有沒有發揮該有的這個功能?你現在一個很結構性的大問題,不然我告訴你,你五個獨立董事每個公司如果要上軌道都要有好的獨立董事對不對?你目前的董事五個都是你農業部派的。"},{"start":6414.894,"end":6420.635,"text":"你本身是什麼?監督然後又變成是裁判這不是跟那個少林足球裡面講的是一樣嗎?"},{"start":6422.102,"end":6449.504,"text":"修正、旁證、主辦、協辦都列郎啊。所以這個整個農業金庫的因素就先天不足,後天就是又失調啊。我要跟委員澄清一件事情。農業金庫它不是一般的公開發行的公司。農業金庫也不是一般的公司。農業金庫是我們現在所有農會的上級的一個銀行。它負責整個農會系統的信用部。所以它也肩負了所有的農業的這些農民的這些專案貸款跟一般性貸款。"},{"start":6450.465,"end":6472.412,"text":"所以他有高度的金融系統去支持我們農業的整個的一個經營所以相對的這個部分我們因為農業部有持股在那邊我們有持股我們派董事這是一個相關根據公司法是可以這樣做的所以本院你看你剛剛講說超市要不要遣失要不要搬出去你們去的代表就不敢進去開會啦沒有那是主動迴避"},{"start":6475.928,"end":6504.054,"text":"為什麼要主動迴避?就是因為有這個剛講的嗎?你本身是監管為什麼你又變成賊人嗎?但是還有其他的人嗎?就是本身你遇到案子就是要迴避。部長現在很清楚出現了兩個很大問題嘛。操司這個過程裡面錢被搬出去。農業部的這個角色是什麼?農業經過為什麼造成這個虧損?第二個我很清楚跟你講的。農業經過的虧損跟操司因為操司那時候農資的部分現在已經已經還了雞蛋的部分剩下3000多萬他不是沒有還錢而且他付利息。"},{"start":6505.345,"end":6518.601,"text":"所以他是一個正常的一個借貸所以這集包括銷毀了你買進來包括銷毀連監察院都講了至少那個五千多萬顆損失了五億多嘛對不對那那個錢誰出那不是曾平的錢嗎"},{"start":6520.251,"end":6539.688,"text":"我剛才說了喔從另外一個角度他當時是在維持整個雞蛋安全庫存的一個必要必須負擔的一個責任我們就買不到啊那時候還是買不到啊因為很貴啊發現了我們做個結論啦農業金庫顯然要從制度面去改革你們有全國農業金庫獨立董事設置跟應該遵行的這個辦法"},{"start":6547.642,"end":6555.381,"text":"你們要回去檢討這個好不好第一個你為什麼五個五個全部都是你農業部派的這本來就不合理啊你有四大股東啊"},{"start":6556.974,"end":6565.998,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內"},{"start":6584.747,"end":6585.608,"text":"我國動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":6601.104,"end":6629.077,"text":"部長,今天最重要的,就剛剛包括了其他的委員都在問你超時的就是合作這個農業金庫在這次錢被搬出去的過程裡面會議紀錄一個禮拜給你我覺得這個事情要追清楚到底誰做了這個決策把錢搬出去這是一個第二個更重要的把農業金庫虧損累累的事情趕快把它做一個改革好不好一個禮拜我們一個禮拜給你這個案子因為你所要的資料我不知道是不是我拿得到依規定拿得到如果依規定拿得到我一定給你"},{"start":6629.841,"end":6631.99,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":6632.557,"end":6657.052,"text":"到時候又弄到監察要得到?相對的就是委員要資料一定是相關依據相關的辦法那我也剛才說了我如果一規定可以拿得到我一定拿給你那如果說我拿不到的話我就沒辦法因為你剛才講的那些會議紀錄還有什麼內部的相關於內部的決策過程是不是可以提供我不是了解但是如果可以我可以提供而且陳部長再到我們張委員辦公室去討論一下這個錢到底是我的問題好不好好謝謝"},{"start":6667.619,"end":6670.8,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":6694.315,"end":6721.978,"text":"委員好。部長好。您應該知道說前幾天其實有野保團體到立法院這邊來遊行嘛。了解。是。然後當時動保司長也出來接見了。接見他們的陳情嘛。是。那他們大概提出了三個主要的訴求。包括說要經濟遊蕩犬貓的一個管理跟減量。然後第二個經濟生態熱區遊蕩犬的管理計畫並擴增辦理範圍。是。然後第三個是要提升國民對野生動物保育還有"},{"start":6723.34,"end":6749.842,"text":"範圍動物福祉的概念然後將犬貓列入課綱外來入侵種的案例那對這部分的時候因為我看到你這報告裡面寫很多針對第一個跟第二個部分針對遊蕩犬的一個管理跟那個生態熱區這邊我大概都看到你們這邊有相關的一個資料啦那這部分我先簡單問一個部分就是說我們目前對遊蕩犬的一個推估到目前為止大概有多少量"},{"start":6750.262,"end":6756.589,"text":"我講一、我們最新的資料大概是279萬隻其中犬的部分大概有148萬隻貓的部分有131萬隻和起來是279萬隻"},{"start":6763.555,"end":6782.954,"text":"這個應該不是遊蕩犬,這應該是所有的犬貓的部分。遊蕩犬的話大概是16萬隻。那因為它持續的增加,我在想說對遊蕩犬這個問題,你們這裡面有大概提到,我就不特別去追。只針對說那個,你這邊有提到說有編列村里長需要的需求的預算。"},{"start":6784.096,"end":6786.238,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":6794.69,"end":6820.403,"text":"我們針對新竹市的部分我們已經有提供機會改進他們的收容所的部分那因為收容所部分其實是當你的流浪犬進到收容所的時候他不是理解其實因為還是遠遠的不夠我想說事後的時候我們再請相關單位到本辦公室來做一個進一步的推動因為新竹市的整個的一個收容所我其實完全的不足然後對於整個那個村裡的這個需求預算的部分目前編列多少預算"},{"start":6821.203,"end":6830.025,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":6850.905,"end":6867.26,"text":"我我覺得這個爭議非常大因為相對的就是當你因為過往以來一直有兩個路線那你當你把它認為外來種的時候光一般民眾就覺得外來種就是"},{"start":6868.639,"end":6871.681,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":6885.931,"end":6911.699,"text":"大家都會怕因為在新竹市也發生過遊蕩犬咬死人的問題可是問題是大家對於伴侶動物的部分寵物的部分又非常的喜歡因為現在少子化的情況很多人都把寵物當作小孩子來養所以動保這個問題裡面其實它就很分歧所以對於貓犬是不是列入課綱這個部分我覺得農業部也相當的一個分歧我想請教一下林保署林保署這邊"},{"start":6919.773,"end":6926.34,"text":"副署長嗎?我想問一下在林保署當中的時候有一個臺灣物種名錄這個網站對不對?這個網站當中的時候列了394筆入侵物種對不對?"},{"start":6935.564,"end":6949.571,"text":"三百九十四種入侵物種當中的時候犬貓都被列入入侵物種當中請問一下我們林保署這邊怎麼來判斷它是入侵物種的科學定義是什麼"},{"start":6953.875,"end":6970.858,"text":"這個部分是由這個科學家去做調查的這個並不是我們林保署去做一個OK可至少在林保署當中台灣物種名稱當中的時候很清楚的把犬貓都列為入侵物種部長你知道這個事情嗎"},{"start":6972.608,"end":6995.677,"text":"我是看到這語無形裡面提到我才知道OK 所以針對比方說農業部是像我們動保的一個主管單位都發生這樣的情況農業部裡面對於這件事情都有這麼大的一個落差那我們要如何去做進一步的一個監管讓台灣的動物保護能夠真正的落實下來"},{"start":6996.717,"end":7016.69,"text":"我想我跟委員報告就是說現在目前台灣物種的這名錄並不是一個官方的名錄但是一個非常重要的是我們不能說官方怎麼弄我們就尊重其實針對是不是列入相關的入侵的物種應該要有很嚴謹的一個界定然後這些界定以後後面的配套不只是林保署"},{"start":7017.15,"end":7020.391,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":7041.618,"end":7061.896,"text":"對於犬貓是不是納入外來種因為野保團體他們對這部分也有一個很高理想的一個訴求因為他們希望列入外來種之後能夠減少棄養的一個狀態那在當中我們希望說農業部這邊能夠好好扮演起一個監督管理的一個角色好不好好"},{"start":7063.357,"end":7092.351,"text":"那接下來我想問一下就是我剛剛特別提到陪伴動物這個部分陪伴動物這邊目前被認為是財產就寵物被認為是財產還是一個獨立的一個生命體部長他現在被界定於被界定為人的附屬物人的附屬物所以他算是財產然後還算不算是一個獨立的一個生命體這個部分還沒有完全"},{"start":7093.932,"end":7119.97,"text":"還沒有完全有共識被定義齁那這個部分我會特別提到是因為坦白說現在有很多相關的一個寵物的一個相關的糾紛當中的時候那法院很多判例也判例出來喔很多的部分寵物如果不慎被撞死了或者是被醫療糾紛致死的狀態都會有一個精神的衛福金這樣的一個情況所以某一個部分它其實是"},{"start":7121.092,"end":7149.094,"text":"有些法院認為他有一些獨立生命體的一個特質在這裡頭那我們認為這個部分對於現在很多養寵物的家庭來說他們很多沒有養小朋友養寵物那這個趨勢其實越來越明顯所以我們希望農業部就為一個主管的一個單位能夠對這個部分有一個更清楚一個定義然後讓所有的一個陪伴動物他們有更好的一個定位可不可以"},{"start":7149.694,"end":7169.165,"text":"我很謝謝委員的提醒,就是早期其實這些錢包我們把它當作一個附屬物,那變成一個財產的概念而已。事實上特別在少子化以後整個的一個社會的氛圍都不一樣了。那其實我們從動物保護的角度來講我們的態度也要做一些調整。所以這個部分我想我會後會請我們動保師針對這個議題去好好的去做一個溝通。"},{"start":7173.187,"end":7175.828,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":7201.576,"end":7203.26,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":7211.898,"end":7231.486,"text":"我想應該在年初的時候也有委員提到這個賽歌的問題那以我個人的態度我就要求就是說我們應該禁止賽歌特別是這種海上的賽歌因為在陸上的比賽這是一件事情他累了還可以休息但是海上的時候他累了以後就直接墜海"},{"start":7232.006,"end":7253.05,"text":"所以我們那時候我跟我們部裡面的同仁討論就是說我們第一步就是要去處理海上的賽哥的這個違法的行為所以我們現在已經有成立跨部會的一個聯繫的一個機制一個處理機制先去處理那我們希望在適當的時間是不是可以可以入法了OK所以農業部已經很清楚的態度禁止海上賽哥這個事情我們是持這樣的立場"},{"start":7254.35,"end":7267.114,"text":"關於後續的部分請給本席一個很完整的一個報告那我們也希望知道針對這個部分能夠對於整個賽哥這部分能夠有一個相當的一個規範好不好好謝謝請陳廷飛委員質詢"},{"start":7284.963,"end":7287.444,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":7314.076,"end":7339.323,"text":"非常擔心害怕所以在整個科農的部分當時我們第一時間就去現場看了那在整個科農的部分現在有兩個區塊第一個區塊就是我們一直在跟你們說的就是說我們科棚在這一次如何能夠再補助而且不超越我們的所謂災害補助的這樣的一個範圍之內然後可以給我們"},{"start":7343.364,"end":7362.714,"text":"這個地方的科農有一個補償那我們當時候談的就是說可能中央補助一個科棚5000元那市政府我相信我們也跟黃偉哲市長說了黃偉哲市長也說OK在一個科棚只要中央有補助5000元他也願意協助這1000元沒有問題那這個進度到底如何"},{"start":7363.754,"end":7384.419,"text":"我先跟委員說明就是第一個非常感謝委員其實在颱風的第一時間針對蚵棚的一些問題就提跟我們農業部來反映那蚵棚這個問題基本上是因為他那時候還沒有漁業權所以沒有所謂的養殖登記那他被颱風吹走以後他不能用天然災害救助的方式去處理"},{"start":7385.299,"end":7389.44,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7414.944,"end":7416.907,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7429.781,"end":7433.902,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":7448.226,"end":7472.412,"text":"措施所以這個對農民長期以來漁民的部分是非常極度的不公平所以我們爭取很久了現在行政院已經在做一個審核的階段所以當時候在第一時間我們就說你不能再用這個漁業權的部分去限制在這一次磕棚的補助我相信那一天本來要邀請部長下去因為部長當天在處理預算的問題"},{"start":7474.793,"end":7478.895,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7499.042,"end":7520.823,"text":"所以我們也同意嘛就以5000然後四伏來補助1000一樣這個標準沒改變只是我們大家彼此互相用我們能夠去協助科民還有我們漁民的一個救助的方向來做處理好那現在進度如何根據我們應該是昨天吧還是前天"},{"start":7521.703,"end":7528.348,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7547.763,"end":7561.92,"text":"應該最後我們確認因為經費有來源了然後我們也訂出了一個標準就是說不能比天然災害救助還高然後我們農業部確定我們補助是5000塊然後我們也期待台南市政府可以"},{"start":7562.661,"end":7563.401,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":7586.747,"end":7589.348,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7611.539,"end":7614.582,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":7635.92,"end":7641.848,"text":"這個很確定了不要再拖了這個部分因為現在又要面臨另外一個颱風了這個颱風到底會不會進來現在大家還在看整個氣象的轉變所以這個是已經"},{"start":7651.339,"end":7676.809,"text":"對台灣來講很特別了從來沒有11月台還這一次有可能這樣子夾著那麼多個颱風有進來沒有進來整個熱半氣流這樣的一個處理所以我認為我們就是要把整個制度做得更完整還有另外一個就是說好11月台真的比較恐怖好在整個颱風天我們要讓蚵棚怎麼避風"},{"start":7678.59,"end":7689.24,"text":"我跟委員報告齁就是在這次的那個康威颱風來的時候曾經有要求到漁港去避風齁但是漁港本身很擔心蚵棚"},{"start":7690.419,"end":7712.696,"text":"會影響到漁船沒錯然後因為時間也很短但是我已經要求漁業署跟台南市政府因為他是代管的還有相關的這些漁民要在明年的訓期之前定一個辦法對因為漁港畢竟他沒有辦法容納所有的科棚因為科棚六七千棚他裡面只有大概一兩百棚而已所以怎麼樣的遊戲規則要定好"},{"start":7714.877,"end":7730.727,"text":"這個很重要就是說在明年訊息前你要訂出遊戲規則否則你遊戲規則沒有訂好的話很容易引發地方的爭議但是這個需不需要這個也必要因為這一定要的因為你沒有讓他可以進來做"},{"start":7732.548,"end":7736.872,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7756.395,"end":7773.44,"text":"這也是我常常說的就是特別是蚵棚我們的養殖醫院齁其實真的是靠近吃飯不怕颱風啦那過往的颱風因為臺南的地區剛好是這段時間在養殖他如果颱風因為今年的颱風是比較特殊所以我們希望說"},{"start":7774.684,"end":7775.384,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":7788.663,"end":7812.588,"text":"很難啊這種11月台這種風很恐怖啦你再多什麼樣的一個設備還是一樣沒有辦法去抵擋所以我覺得當然我們要未雨綢繆這些所謂的加強設施也要可是第二個就是說我們要怎麼讓他們能夠避風整個遊戲規則拜託在我們訓期前要把定出遊戲規則跟辦法然後再來就是我們當時候"},{"start":7817.269,"end":7843.86,"text":"楊香瓜紅蔥頭玉米番茄還有我們的芝麻基本上都受損嚴重但是現在有一個問題喔我們現在有很多延遲性的摘損喔這些部分是不是我們應該各區各品項去完整了解這個就像我之前跟你講的現在地方跟中央的職責你知道地方都推給中央然後都說中央都還沒有定"},{"start":7844.66,"end":7860.671,"text":"還沒有公告然後也不去訴報結果農民都不知道該怎麼辦然後他沒有趕快整理的話又會搞著現在很多的問題你像我昨天就接到永康西市 塞市 塞市 趕快去跟我說他們現在都完全沒辦法整啊"},{"start":7865.282,"end":7871.845,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":7884.651,"end":7912.224,"text":"然後都要我們一個一個打電話去跟區公所說拜託你們就讓我們的農民可以速報你速報之後才能給農業局農業局才能給農業部啊可是這個部分SOP到底怎麼制定呢我跟委員報告齁其實天然災災勘災一定已經有一個完整的SOP那當初大面積勘天災來的時候我們農業部主動的去勘了以後用主動公告"},{"start":7913.223,"end":7915.083,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":7932.988,"end":7954.948,"text":"各縣市政府好各縣市我不管台南市現在已經發生了在當時候這個颱風11月台開始的時候已經發生了這延遲性的然後甚至有很多他根本就沒有辦法栽種的造成栽損的是不是台南市你要求各區公所趕快去做各品項的盤整了解"},{"start":7955.709,"end":7959.332,"text":"是不是可以然後再報給農業局然後再報給你們農業部你要請市政府要去做一些擔當吶我想我們會跟市政府溝通吼就是說有特別是您所提的延遲性的災損不可能用主動公報的方式一定是由地方政府區公署那邊來提報啊他現在都說沒有我們就在等中央啊"},{"start":7976.727,"end":7977.688,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":7995.32,"end":8005.546,"text":"這個已經講很多年了這個隧道是你知道嗎我去現場看的時候那些農民跟我講說他是要弄裡面的然後在那我們的洋香瓜我們的蚵蜜啦他是一顆這樣要怎麼割啊弄裡面裡面這樣一顆一顆這樣把它割起來割起來啊去割一顆捏哥哥知道我們的隧道是所有的全部都被吹掉了這怎麼辦"},{"start":8021.459,"end":8024.22,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":8042.949,"end":8044.631,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":8058.064,"end":8059.625,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":8080.939,"end":8081.84,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":8102.891,"end":8125.305,"text":"所以拜託部長這個隧道是你要趕快去做什麼樣的一個規劃然後怎麼樣的一個救助的方式要重新評估我們我們在應該在11月底就開始會去討論明年1月一定會新的公告把新的一些我們沒有過去沒有想到的再拜託喔那這個要納入喔這個我已經跟你講了這個一定要納入喔11月份我想我們還會透過專家會議來討論怎麼樣處理這個好不好好再拜託"},{"start":8138.457,"end":8138.823,"text":"現在修行"},{"start":8509.895,"end":8512.397,"text":"繼續開會,現在請鄭天才委員質詢。主席,有請部長。請陳部長。委員好。部長好。"},{"start":8538.625,"end":8566.731,"text":"今天有關動物保護法的修正,農業部也在112年7年4月到5月13日就這個動物保護法的修正案做預告。然後你們也在今年的8月16日就把這個草案送到行政院。"},{"start":8568.397,"end":8583.77,"text":"當然這個時間蠻長的一年多了從這個預告到送到行政院花了一年多的時間當然行政院的政務員他們也很忙所以也還沒開正式的這個會議"},{"start":8585.703,"end":8613.068,"text":"所以基本上這個今天也很多的立法委員都提案了這個也希望這個農業部這邊能夠給支持但未來整個行政院板是不是有比這個現行的這些提案有更好的也可以參財納入這個部分好我們看這個"},{"start":8614.821,"end":8616.464,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":8622.024,"end":8650.369,"text":"這個在最近造成這個我們軸西鄉相關古豐村這邊的雞農受到很大損失共被死亡的400多隻雞所以這個部分當然林業署也做了協助雞農的損失也做了協助"},{"start":8651.609,"end":8678.004,"text":"這個就是怎麼樣去防範防範不再發生事實上有的是沒有通報給農業部林業署因為不知道是怎麼樣發生還好這個是後來經過查了之後才發現才知道是這個台灣黑熊所造成的所以這個未來的一個防範還是要去加強"},{"start":8679.425,"end":8702.814,"text":"這個事要請這個有沒有除了你們現在因為台灣雖然不大但是林業屬的森林林邦地也相當這個設備也沒有辦法全部都放有沒有其他的最起碼住家部落的附近是不是都有這樣的一個設施設備"},{"start":8706.485,"end":8716.353,"text":"我跟委員報告第一個非常謝謝委員在這個議題的關心那這個議題其實呈現了兩個概念第一個概念就是其實我們看到我們臺灣"},{"start":8717.85,"end":8745.879,"text":"對於黑熊的復育其實逐漸的展現出它的成果但是不可避免的就是說這些野生動物甚至於保育類動物對於我們靠近山林的這些農場的部分造成這些農作物或是續產的一個損失特別是以這個個案的方式來看的話其實它的損失相當龐大的那我們林保署在第一時間也針對這些被咬食的雞隻有做了一些補償的這些作為我知道"},{"start":8747.179,"end":8767.644,"text":"這個補償作為只是事後的補救的部分其實我們更應該重視前端的這些防範那前端的防範我一直強調就是說像這種所謂的動物跟我們的家庭的這個部分應該要透過一些大家通力來合作特別是針對居民的部分一起來努力好 這個部分你們去強化"},{"start":8770.625,"end":8799.062,"text":"實際上台灣的黑熊真的是很多我們部落的族人也跟林業署合作怎麼樣去一些受困的或是受傷的我們都有協助所以台灣的原住民族在這塊土地上事實上我們都跟野生動物能夠共存那我們看台灣黑熊"},{"start":8801.007,"end":8828.087,"text":"這個真的是非常多這個相關的這些不斷的那個所以剛才講的那個防範的措施還是還是要有這個因為現在那個台灣黑熊在台灣的量不算少幾百隻吧有到幾百隻的一個我再跟委員報告有幾點就第一個就是說其實我們針對像黑熊這個部分"},{"start":8828.867,"end":8854.004,"text":"的一些受傷我們也已經建立一個完整的通報的一個機制透過我們跟原住民部落在合作用山林共治的方式來處理那第二個部分就是我們也提供了有關黑熊的生態服務給付的部分來鼓勵我們這些原民部落本身針對黑熊的保育針對相關的一個示範給付的方式然後第三個就是我們也研發了一些改良式的改良式的這些"},{"start":8854.844,"end":8858.467,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":8885.708,"end":8911.36,"text":"在人民的私有土地上,人民的私有土地上,不是在國有的海岸,所以這個都是在人民的土地上,所以像這樣的一個情形造成人民很大的一個,然後你們又這個人力的關係,然後去作業又慢,住計這些都慢,所以這個部分,然後在住計之後,"},{"start":8912.06,"end":8921.742,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":8936.385,"end":8938.786,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":8955.168,"end":8956.649,"text":"規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規"},{"start":8976.536,"end":9004.053,"text":"都已經註記好了,剩下就應該要拿走。鄉親願意把他載走,為什麼要禁止使用這個機器?所以這個部分都要去檢討,可以嗎?我跟委員報告,這個部分大概有兩點說明。第一點說明就是漂林木本身是屬地主義,由各土地主管居然處理。現在遇到的問題就是我們的註記時間一個月,一個月似乎太長,會影響相關的景觀。"},{"start":9005.974,"end":9029.053,"text":"所以一個月是不是有機會能夠縮短這個部分我們來檢討那第二個部分就是說當我開放減食的時候那是不是可以部分的使用機具去協助搬運那這個部分我想我們也會來檢討就是說如果真的漂流木它不具價值的漂流木也很大的時候要用人搬的確有它的困難度"},{"start":9029.733,"end":9030.534,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":9059.933,"end":9073.526,"text":"因為你可能不知道海岸很多開放那個大型車進去的都有啊我們只不過是要搬運這些機器我知道所以我想我們會去來設計用什麼樣的條件之下可以開放適度的開放小型的小型的機器了"},{"start":9075.928,"end":9076.108,"text":"關於楊瓊英委員質詢。"},{"start":9110.796,"end":9138.251,"text":"謝謝主席楊群發言首先邀請部長請陳部長部長好部長我們114年度的預算裡頭其中我們動保管理編列是5.6億左右那當然我們希望要能夠好好的去落實推廣減少虐待動物的這個情況"},{"start":9139.352,"end":9155.838,"text":"那我們據資料呢每一年虐待動物的這個顯性的喔引信還不知道顯性的部分呢大概通報有上千件但是受到法院判決動保處開法的案件每一年不到100件"},{"start":9156.698,"end":9158.239,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":9172.13,"end":9174.671,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及"},{"start":9199.397,"end":9221.89,"text":"他們會很無奈地說要有遺體要有屍體他才會判案現在目前是如此所以本席要請教部長如果說為了定罪得當祭品的這個無辜的動物那這個也是一個很負面的一個教育這是絕對不對的"},{"start":9223.823,"end":9226.745,"text":"所以在動物保護法第25條的規範裡頭要動物嚴重殘缺或者是死亡才能夠這個判法那實務上呢等於是最好就是你在當時在這個虐待的時候要趕快去把它"},{"start":9242.737,"end":9247.059,"text":"部分條文修正草案．以往我們是說你要致使動物肢體嚴重殘缺或者是重要器官功能喪失"},{"start":9268.47,"end":9270.992,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":9288.467,"end":9306.819,"text":"你使動物遭受傷害故意傷害或是使動物遭受傷害致動物肢體或器官功能受損本席具體的文字建議我希望得到你的同意你的看法"},{"start":9308.294,"end":9324.38,"text":"非常謝謝那個委員長久以來對動物保護的關注那剛才委員提的兩個一個問題就是以現在的規定裡面一定是第一個要故意第二個要造成重大的三長的部分那以我們現在的資料就是大概每一年"},{"start":9325.26,"end":9352.726,"text":"還有一個重要器官每一個都是重要器官哪裏有一個哪一個不是重要器官那我要跟委員報告就是說以過去幾年來大概平均一年大概在1200件到1400件左右那今年到目前為止大概883件那這是通報的那誠如你講的通報了以後要去有證據那這個證據我個人的看法就是我支持委員的看法但是我們對於"},{"start":9353.886,"end":9358.27,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":9382.85,"end":9386.472,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":9412.231,"end":9433.627,"text":"我剛才說了就是說我希望說未來對於這種傷殘的部分要做一些分類的部分第二個第25條之一也很重要你們原來的條文是寫什麼使用藥物槍械致複數動物死亡情節重大者"},{"start":9434.386,"end":9453.434,"text":"你一定要槍械你也一定要藥物那本期給你修正文字除了使用藥物槍械暴力或者是施以其他凌虐的方式這個都要納入哪有一定要用槍一定要用藥才算凌虐你用用"},{"start":9454.854,"end":9473.39,"text":"很多人用棒球棒是不是啊用棒球棒把他打死去把頭顱都打破了這個不用怎麼可以這樣子莫名其妙我完全同意委員的看法現在槍械本來就是管制的你要找到槍械其實也困難對啊所以你的條文這樣寫你還不改"},{"start":9475.792,"end":9495.626,"text":"所以我們的版本完了以後我想我們會尊重委員會裡面討論的這些意見我們會適度的把它納入。你同意本協所說的除了藥物、槍械、暴力或者是私利其他凌虐方式對不對?我想基本上同意但是就是說"},{"start":9497.248,"end":9499.911,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":9516.73,"end":9531.372,"text":"各縣市政府來結賬但是我們看到2020年宣誓畢竟12年之後街頭的遊蕩要遊蕩犬要清零可是我告訴你你越做越多現在15萬隻"},{"start":9533.939,"end":9562.079,"text":"那這怎麼辦為什麼花了那麼多錢你反而更多呢?部長我跟委員報告2032年你有沒有信心你的目標是2032年我不知道當初2032年你的流浪犬之決議你會不會達到這是你現在的KPI喔對我很務實的跟委員報告當初2020年在定說12年清零的部分我覺得是做不到"},{"start":9563.24,"end":9564.101,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":9578.176,"end":9588.618,"text":"當我們也算過齁當我們沒有認得作為的時候流浪犬他本身的繁殖率的部分齁如果說以沒有作為的話現在可能變成18萬20萬了但是現在我們還是壓在15萬16萬之間表示說我們現在的作為是有一些成效我承認說有一些成效是不夠的嘛跟你的2032年你現在還是15、6萬啊對不對那很恐怖欸我們的公園今天很多人不敢去欸這怎麼辦"},{"start":9606.942,"end":9619.849,"text":"我跟委員報告所以我們現在的樂區有擴大以鄉里營為鄉里為單位的樂區另外我們也去對外公開徵求有什麼好的辦法因為你講到重點了有什麼好的辦法我告訴你不單不單這個國家他只花了15年將全國的流浪犬隻全部結紮完畢是"},{"start":9630.595,"end":9636.337,"text":"所以我要問台灣要多久?你要趕快,相關單位趕快去看世界各國人家怎麼做好不好?你趕快去看怎麼做!要不要檢討啊?一定要檢討!一定要檢討喔!你有GUS的承認2032年是達不到的!所以我拜託你!我用拜託!因為我覺得這些動物毛小孩我們一定要把它弄好!"},{"start":9652.822,"end":9654.184,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":9669.244,"end":9674.946,"text":"我們現在物價指數從93.58 漲到104.7成長41%本期要跟你討論的也就是我們的這個農民津貼的這個問題因為呢我老農津貼是10年前所定5百萬那現在因為"},{"start":9689.77,"end":9699.737,"text":"年這個這個物價指數提高也因爲他幅度很大也因爲極端氣候也因爲年房現在這個房屋啊還在增值稅一直這麼這麼高啊地價稅一直這麼高那你是10年前所定的五五百萬很多人說我一樣這個房子"},{"start":9710.345,"end":9730.362,"text":"但是他因為政府你提高所以他超過了這個讓我沒有辦法領老農今天我個人認為如果是他沒有增加那這是不對的啊他沒有增加一樣的範疇那是政府你給我提高那應該是不是要來提高本學具體建議從500萬來建立到800萬真正的來照顧這些老農你的看法呢"},{"start":9735.686,"end":9750.366,"text":"我跟委員報告其實在上上個會期裡面針對老農津貼我們也提出了說明現在是根據4年的CPI去調整那這個要調整我們有設計的一個新的方法但是也要看其他的社福基金的一致性"},{"start":9751.007,"end":9752.769,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":9775.208,"end":9780.252,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":9798.084,"end":9800.747,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":9816.892,"end":9831.938,"text":"我們如果說我們可以我會跟行政院請示就是說這個議題要聯同其他的八大社福基金一併來討論不是單一的因為他就是根據CPI就你的老人今天什麼時候可以再一次提到這個行政院"},{"start":9832.658,"end":9837,"text":"本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":9849.304,"end":9853.267,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":9884.383,"end":9893.393,"text":"接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢談謝謝主席請陳部長我們再請陳部長"},{"start":9905.374,"end":9915.485,"text":"公布實施之後經過這些年已經有15次的這個修正那因為大家對於這個動保的意思都已經提升了所以我們也要與時俱進"},{"start":9917.126,"end":9940.406,"text":"在去年的4月28號的時候我們就有最新的動物保護法的這個修正草案預計大概有68條在這個修正法案裡面我們也在這個11月您說的在8月份的時候已經呈報給行政院11月底就要來審查那本是希望在12月中以前就能送來立法院做得到嗎"},{"start":9942.089,"end":9969.021,"text":"我想我們預計在11月底我們也會請行那邊盡快的審查啦那審查我們預估大概審查如果說有一個月的時程的話預計在12月中旬或下旬的時候盡量都在中旬那這些動物保護法在你預計的68條裡面跟我們社會上沒有辦法達成共識這些內容大概是哪些方向呢我想有幾個就像剛才那個有委員提到的就是"},{"start":9970.373,"end":9973.656,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":9986.488,"end":10014.659,"text":"你剛剛講到業勢的撈金魚這情形那我們立法的當時的時候我們利益是良善的但是我們在整個看到這個撈金魚的時候業者強力的反彈農業部立刻改口改口說那這樣子撈金魚的話就暫時不要禁止我們只要禁止兔子啦或者天竺鼠這些非這個脊椎的動物"},{"start":10016.021,"end":10038.819,"text":"金魚就是脊椎動物是不是那為什麼要改變呢其實我看業者並不是會強烈反彈他們不知道未來你農業部有整個的配套或者未來對他們的生計有沒有衝擊的部分這就是你們必須要在落日轉型當下來努力下功夫而不是說有反彈就改變了"},{"start":10039.119,"end":10062.66,"text":"不過我想跟委員說明就是我們在處理這些正義的議題不是說某一個單方面的利害關係人反彈我們就不做了我們是有經過非常多次的討論然後包括不同領域的利害關係人他們的一致性的看法如果看法是很分歧的時候那我們覺得說如果分歧一定要強制去推那反而會讓法裡面後續的執行更困擾"},{"start":10063.16,"end":10065.682,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":10082.074,"end":10083.374,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":10105.179,"end":10107.281,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":10131.801,"end":10137.84,"text":"要務跟槍械這個前提之下而致這個重大犯行的話"},{"start":10139.332,"end":10161.237,"text":"我們會加重期刑二分之一加重期刑二分之一但是你們的條文裡面有複數本席認為說只要是他有利用到這個槍械或者是這個藥物的話我們就應該加重期刑不應該有複數不然的話你會讓這個加害者會有侵犯或有逃脫的機會是不是"},{"start":10162.042,"end":10184.273,"text":"我跟委員報告齁,因為這牽涉到刑法的部分齁,那我們在當中在考慮的時候就是第一個是故意的,那第二個部分就是說他是故意的,一個也是故意的,不用一定要到複數嘛但是相對的,一隻動物的時候有時候是情緒上...可是他是使用齁,我不是說他有虐待的情形,或者暴力情形,所以他會使用藥物跟槍械"},{"start":10185.444,"end":10187.145,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":10200.894,"end":10205.355,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分"},{"start":10225.581,"end":10227.482,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":10242.227,"end":10245.229,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":10272.527,"end":10275.029,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":10302.507,"end":10307.072,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分"},{"start":10322.406,"end":10326.129,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":10350.779,"end":10359.464,"text":"部長,因為本席在上次在質詢你的時候特別有提到我們桃園的茶改廠。這茶改廠成立了已經將近有121年這個的歷史這個的文化。但是現在因為部長有說我們可以雙種廠的情形在嘉義跟我們桃園都有茶改廠。"},{"start":10371.591,"end":10399.318,"text":"但是現在傳出來是說我們擦蓋廠場內的員工啊人心惶惶就很擔心了因為他們說你們都把整個北部的擦蓋廠的資源都會搬到這個嘉義去讓我們未來的對這個擦蓋的研發資源沒有的話我們未來主力會很大那現在情形是怎麼樣我跟委員報告齁就是雙重腦的概念是我提出來的齁當初本來是要移到嘉義去但是我覺得"},{"start":10400.038,"end":10424.313,"text":"桃園地區本身的總長他有他的歷史價值跟他的貢獻度所以後續的經費還是後續在嘉義的部分你對資源跟人力會不會減少沒有人力的部分我們會去做調整但是絕對不會影響現實的人力然後另外經費的部分在嘉義的部分我們另外提報了預算會去額外的增加不會說把這邊的經費全部挪過去這個請委員放心"},{"start":10424.853,"end":10448.247,"text":"因為我們要希望部長能夠重視我們桃園整個產業的一個發展那尤其是我們這邊的這個歷史悠久的已經121年的茶文化還有我們茶葉的整個發展那本席在這邊建議啦那因為我們不要發生的縱北慶來我們能夠均衡一點的話那我們可以把南北分工的這個性質那像像我們"},{"start":10449.528,"end":10465.097,"text":"如果是嘉義的話我們可以針對這個飲料的這個作物啊來做研究發展那其他的部分就在我們北部我們桃園這個茶開場繼續來發展可不可以大致的方向是類似齁就是在嘉義地區很多就著重在高山茶的部分啊"},{"start":10466.457,"end":10468.117,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":10494.346,"end":10516.998,"text":"謝謝,謝謝部長。部長,剛剛討論那個25條之一啊,那個戶數啊本期跟那個召委的意見是一樣。你說在家裡你寧願一隻,不算,要兩隻。他因為臨時情緒,重點是你的標的物那個動物的死掉了啊。為什麼要兩隻?那個戶數這個太離譜了,要去檢討。欸不是啊,是蔡議員。"},{"start":10525.963,"end":10542.336,"text":"所以部長那個真的要檢討了來我們請蔡議員委員請請打好謝謝主席那我們是有請部長請陳部長"},{"start":10552.644,"end":10570.161,"text":"部長,事實上這幾年來我在關心這個越南的蚵仔事實上都有混沖變成台灣的蚵仔那尤其他們都冠上嘉義東石的這個名字那現在看起來報導已經不只是越南的蚵仔都已經變中國的蚵仔"},{"start":10573.504,"end":10575.585,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":10588.97,"end":10591.833,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":10618.713,"end":10630.007,"text":"本身透過金門過來的部分。表面上看起來好像是正常的貿易。我們不講走私的部分,就是他用正常管道進來的部分。現在我們在處理,我經過幾次會議的討論,"},{"start":10633.17,"end":10653.73,"text":"我覺得我們現在要去推動金門牡蠣的養殖登記因為你唯有養殖登記你能夠了解到金門的實際的生產量的部分然後再看養殖登記的來源牧場本身去做一個勾基這樣子就能夠避免他只是很含糊的講說我是我自己養的"},{"start":10654.531,"end":10684.171,"text":"因為你沒有證明的話就很難處理所以我們現在後續會再跟金門縣政府這邊來討論然後透過相關的查驗的部分我們水事組跟他們的金門的水事組我們也會來合作落實的登記養殖登記跟數量登記以後就能夠一部分的遏止相關的透過這樣子以正常管道來走勢的這個情況那第二個部分是針對走勢的部分我想我們還是跟海委會再合作去加強查緝走勢的這個部分"},{"start":10684.851,"end":10688.853,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":10705.862,"end":10707.223,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":10725.038,"end":10745.679,"text":"這幾年的預算你看一下事實上總預算都在提高總預算從111年的時候是2兆2700億到了明年度的總預算是3兆1325億很明顯的總預算是在提高但是你看一下我們的漁業署"},{"start":10747.18,"end":10767.361,"text":"我們漁業署的預算從111年的時候是75億到114年是88億很明顯這個漁業署成長的幅度跟總預算成長的幅度就一個落差更不要去講說漁業署跟農糧署跟其他的我們農業部裡面的其他部會"},{"start":10768.562,"end":10791.197,"text":"我們這樣看起來就是說這個政府好像對於台灣的漁業基本上是放棄的對於漁業沒有更大的一個重視那這個沒有重視的結果是怎樣我在進一步我直接講完部長再一次回答你知道我們現在台灣的漁港台灣尤其在西海岸的漁港有很多幾乎都是都是淤積啦"},{"start":10792.278,"end":10793.559,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":10818.297,"end":10819.677,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":10833.842,"end":10836.384,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":10858.654,"end":10879.781,"text":"謝謝委員對漁業的關心那我第一個說明就是說漁業署的預算114看起來有減少最主要是前任漁港的專案計畫的經費就是減少了但是從我就任以來我也發現到漁業署本身的工作其實是非常多的我覺得他應該要重新盤整包括您剛才說的這些"},{"start":10880.781,"end":10909.636,"text":"這些海洋捕撈的部分的這些漁港雖然說二類漁港是由縣市政府來主管的但是其實農業部也應該負一些責任啊這副漁港沒有通用步驟他也是沒辦法去製作所以這些漁港都要靠漁業署來撐所以還有包括養殖漁業的部分我們怎麼樣更有效的去提升養殖的這些效率的部分我相信後續我想我們會來我會真的來關注漁業的部分因為我覺得他的"},{"start":10911.156,"end":10938.988,"text":"工作項目跟編列的經費。但是部長你看嘛,你從預算去看起來,他錢就沒有增加,你更不用期待說以後就做比較多行賄。所以,部長我下一次還會跟你再講養殖業,我現在就,我們現在是講沿海的捕撈。往沿海的捕撈對不對,你就最基本的,那邊處理給安全出港就好。所以你要怎麼樣讓每一個漁港,它的出港是一個安全的。事實上我有很多數據啊,"},{"start":10941.209,"end":10969.55,"text":"這個數據呈現出來的你漁港要出港就不安全這要處理這就是委員講的其實航道的清淤特別是在這幾年來颱風每次颱風來、好雨來那個預計從上游的河沙預計在河道越來越嚴重所以相關的這些河道的清淤的部分應該更加重視那以前邊內的經費不足的話我們再看看用什麼方式調整但是後續的115年的時候我想我們會再做比較完整的一個調整"},{"start":10969.87,"end":10980.215,"text":"部長我給你看數字你就知道了我再用一點時間你看一下我們東石我們往療愈港他的航道的輸進在上一次是在什麼時候在108年"},{"start":10982.321,"end":11000.507,"text":"白水浮漁港在上一次的航道輸進是105年所以你從東石這裡當然東石的澳大利亞溫港、亞洲這幾乎幾乎都已經都沒辦法處理了所以你看他們的這個最低崗位的水深都已經到了零了"},{"start":11001.681,"end":11006.503,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":11032.056,"end":11034.137,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":11064.709,"end":11065.069,"text":"請謝依奉委員質詢。"},{"start":11084.027,"end":11104.659,"text":"部長我想要請問你喔其實我們最近看到日本的福岡熊本他們的牧場發現了這個牛結節的症那這個部分其實過去在2020年7月的時候金門也有爆發相關的這樣子的疫情"},{"start":11105.379,"end":11106.88,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":11124.812,"end":11139.666,"text":"這個範圍內所以為什麼2020年金門的牛節診的疫情跟現在對於日本的牛節診的疫情就是我們農業部的處理是不一致的為什麼"},{"start":11141.229,"end":11170.567,"text":"我跟委員說明就是相關的牛節枕他是一個一級的傳染病所以當他發病的時候第一個跟生物有關的因為他的沒有經過一些一些比較深度的這些加熱處理的部分所以我們會先禁止然後看他的來源牧場一段時間是沒有發生的那我們當初對於金門的牛節枕的時候是不是不只是鮮乳甚至整隻牛的牛肉都禁止"},{"start":11171.027,"end":11176.99,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":11197.839,"end":11206.445,"text":"是不是因為國際貿易法的相關規範,所以你才沒有辦法禁止那個日本的就是牛肉進口?"},{"start":11206.445,"end":11208.547,"text":"是根據國際相關的規範。我請那個房間主署長跟您說一下。"},{"start":11213.735,"end":11235.872,"text":"是報告委員因為國際的話他在肉的部分他是排除的他是有經過檢查以後排除所以對肉的話國際上並沒有針對牛節節診發生去做控管那乳的部分因為在當初的檢疫條件有宣告日本要發出來說他的廠這段時間內沒有發生牛節節診事實上與現在的狀況不符"},{"start":11240.015,"end":11267.114,"text":"那這部分我們已經跟日本有談好了那很快的這個部分已經處理好我們重新議定了他的檢疫的證明文件那現在他其實乳的部分就可以輸進來沒有問題了已經處理掉了那金門的話是因為牛結症診發生那我們發現他不單只是牛結症沒有施打疫苗那其他的口蹄的部分也是有沒有施打疫苗的疑慮所以這部分我們會"},{"start":11268.135,"end":11269.477,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":11277.548,"end":11306.546,"text":"所以這一次我們食品的公料農頭他說禁止就是進口事業特選鮮乳就是日本的流乳進口嘛那在這個情況下他們也食尚奶茶也全面的停止使用日本的鮮乳改用國產的統一鮮乳以及要選用小農的其實我們彰化也有啊我們彰化也有鮮乳法啊那是不是你們農業部你們說為了要加入"},{"start":11307.446,"end":11329.195,"text":"國際貿易組織為了要讓我們台灣的農業變成競技型現在根本就不需要打國際盃啊現在就要利用這個事件搶購我們國內的就是奶茶的農頭啊是不是我們就直接殺進去我們那個相關的茶飲的市場裡面啊是不是"},{"start":11331.541,"end":11349.515,"text":"其實剛好這是一個機會就是現在很多那個泡沫紅茶店他是用那個冰磚冰磚爐的部分那現在剛好日本這段時間沒辦法進來的時候其實剛好讓我們有機會把我們的國產爐推介到我們的這些泡沫紅茶店還有奶茶店的部分"},{"start":11349.915,"end":11350.776,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":11365.111,"end":11377.88,"text":"甚至我認為我們跟日本還有台灣的稻米稻穀就是那個我們的那個稻草啊過去我們彰化有非常多的稻草希望可以輸到日本日本他們有榻榻米他們的產業嘛可是因為防疫的問題"},{"start":11381.442,"end":11383.663,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":11407.113,"end":11428.285,"text":"我講我針對那個稻草的部分齁那個檢疫的條件我們一直在在積極的跟日方在處理那有一個時間點的機會就是我們我們的豬瘟傳統豬瘟如果被確認了以後那相關的這個檢疫的條件就可以放寬因為他們針對齁因為我們國內還有情緒上還有一些豬瘟的的一個所以稻草是跟豬就對了"},{"start":11428.885,"end":11431.786,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":11450.891,"end":11454.273,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":11489.465,"end":11505.288,"text":"請陳昌明委員諮詢。陳昌明委員謝謝主席。首先有請農業部陳部長。請陳部長。委員老闆。國民老闆。"},{"start":11517.15,"end":11524.298,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":11539.518,"end":11561,"text":"棄養這是一個原因第二個部分是說這些野外的流浪貓的自然的繁殖那自然的繁殖本身如果說以它現在的繁殖倍率跟它的公母的比例的時候我們現在的一些作為的確有抑制但是沒有辦法馬上就把它清零我告訴你這事情要追求本人"},{"start":11561.96,"end":11573.077,"text":"我現在看這個社會經濟觀,我們現在推寵物車的比推嬰兒車的還要多。第二個,我是實際講,我的裡面秘書請教我這個動物的話不能亂講話。"},{"start":11577.225,"end":11583.533,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":11594.992,"end":11615.29,"text":"所以在這,你既然跟人一樣一樣,你跟養寵物的人,我問你,我們現在所有的寵物裡面只有植種片而已,對不對?你要幫我取寵物,要拿寵物啊,所有養寵物的話,要跟人的新聞證上款都要登記下來。"},{"start":11616.957,"end":11645.247,"text":"我覺得這個很重要你感染就要負這樣的責任為什麼會有這樣的情形?人是叫做接力的問題起因啊!吼這個壓力很大所以隨時都會被盯著你沒有做你覺得良心不安各種條件就會來制裁你你要好好的照顧你下一代孩子啊這些寵物今天我心情好我就把他抱在一起我不要生氣了或是各種"},{"start":11646.187,"end":11669.592,"text":"把寵物放到外面他沒有一點社會責任的所以你要從這個根本上你敢給我取寵物你有給我拿政府的寶座還是給我訪問真的照顧寵物養的權比照顧小孩子養的權還痛所以你這個大姐的限制性條件沒你公的那些沒得抓那現在政府為什麼不敢做"},{"start":11670.572,"end":11685.533,"text":"因為年輕養的寵物很多選票有關係只要稍微講的對寵物不好的話選票都跑掉了但是我這個人我實際去做事我把這個問題貼著讓你們好好研究你們的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":11686.714,"end":11700.29,"text":"我跟委員報告第一個就是說我們其實已經在推動重複身分證那重複身分證其實代表了重複的一個身分以外也代表了寵物的登記那有了登記以後後面的管理這是第一點"},{"start":11701.391,"end":11724.105,"text":"第二點就是我們看到現在的很多流浪貓流浪犬包括現在的整個的寵物的一個市場裡面我覺得非常重要就是事主的責任對對對研究管制我是跟你講一點這個詞題我不敢亂講因為我看到實在人跟照顧寵物跟照顧人類的不一樣我們有感受但是不敢講聽得懂嗎第二個"},{"start":11727.728,"end":11751.982,"text":"那外界第10屆委員會的時候南部的所謂喉嚨跑到國園裡面去啊你們怎樣去防治有沒有進一步的成果我們現在第一個就是我們用電幕網的部分去做一個補助然後更重要就是說我也請我們的林保署那邊去公開徵求更好的方法我們給予獎金徵求出來了沒有現在還在"},{"start":11753.223,"end":11755.686,"text":"還在徵求當中?我現在怎麼提這個問題出來?"},{"start":11772.079,"end":11775.921,"text":"本院委員林宜瑾等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":11796.169,"end":11817.978,"text":"但是我苗栗縣現在山區的狗籠都已經碰到這種問題。啊我會在第10屆開始講到現在我現在來啟床。我每次下鄉的時候那些人都說欸你也沒有歡迎啊你也沒有該掛帳的收費。我就等著這一天南部的經驗怎麼樣。你讓我對水果的損害。那我告訴你"},{"start":11824.028,"end":11831.592,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":11850.381,"end":11863.209,"text":"那在一些情況之下他是可以獵殺的可是人我們針對獵殺通常不喜歡這樣做所以我們都是用圍捕用電腐網的部分你講的我們農業一流啊我們的動物我們的實驗所還缺其實這個可以一個專案去想你們現在不在場自己想開幾年"},{"start":11873.815,"end":11874.936,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":11892.393,"end":11907.135,"text":"我先講喔,我苗栗的那個水果市都在山坡地喔,跟南坡的平地不一樣,人家有的有的,我們要再變來變去,要再管再給喔。你幫我想要怎麼來解決,我幫你考取解決。"},{"start":11908.535,"end":11928.112,"text":"我會跟委員報告就是說第一個像這樣的一個防火的部分應該跟當地的居民、農民一起合作啦那提供巡守的部分然後驅趕的部分那試驗單位現在有非常多的驅趕的這些作為你這表面文章我怎麼知道那個狗、狗我怎麼知道晚上要來還是晚上要來"},{"start":11930.114,"end":11930.414,"text":"規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":11944.119,"end":11968.933,"text":"您真正是不作為公務這新的技術。你們這樣的問題就沒有辦法解決。你們那麼多的實驗所,你們那麼多的專家,安然視守無策。台灣公農業的進步我也不怎麼相信。尤其你是那個科技的那種來當部長,應該想出新的辦法。我現在要解決我地方的問題。"},{"start":11973.772,"end":12000.997,"text":"你那個電網你說寮搞我不曉得早上晚上來我天天要派人去繞山區那麼大如何去找所以這不務實際我看到你們管政府說不錯我就我不相信不錯我說很爛的做法再來你要安心把這裡搞下來保護這裡的農民你們一定有一套辦法這樣五十年這個問題沒辦法讓人改觀"},{"start":12004.353,"end":12016.585,"text":"委員有更好的訪問,我們也樂意接受啦,因為我們...沒有人敢去請我吃飯,我才跟你講稍等多次,讓我再去問多次。但是,我現在不安的情形,能不能用農業災害來?"},{"start":12019.622,"end":12037.605,"text":"如果確實嚴重,農業障礙我這個地方我會照出來一看。你用農業障礙的補償辦法。你這辦法想給這些農民,不然水果種了那麼久,採的量那麼少,疑心何忍啊。這跟你那個農業障礙保護不一樣啊。"},{"start":12039.841,"end":12041.702,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":12063.377,"end":12086.954,"text":"我會慎重的考慮就是說以現在來講就是我們只有天然災害救助的辦法你不能說照以往這個是天然災害啊你們說不能把米油殺了我他來吃我的不是天然災害是什麼天然災害有天然災害的範疇啊這也是天然災害的一種您把他納入裡面嘛這我們要來檢討這是什麼事我跟你講花的錢不多"},{"start":12088.015,"end":12089.236,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":12103.387,"end":12104.168,"text":"規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":12124.464,"end":12138.391,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":12158.899,"end":12161.521,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12174.036,"end":12178.778,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12199.017,"end":12221.259,"text":"報告,那個目前的部分都是由所謂的民間自己來去做,那沒有辦法,現在沒有辦法。那你如果按照海難災害防救業務計畫,如果有造成漁損,海難事故造成漁損,由農業部協助漁民求償嘛,這是這個計畫的鑰匙嘛,那你過去有相關的案例,那這個案例能不能比照辦理?"},{"start":12222.475,"end":12244.14,"text":"報告那個過去的部分的案例大概都是我們協助來去做保全證據的部分跟愚民的部分這部分你有協助嗎我們都在上次的阿瑪那個德祥的部分也是用同樣的方式並沒有戴維球場這件事情你們考慮一下啦齁如果用戴維球場由公部門來介入效果會比較好啦這個部長"},{"start":12246.919,"end":12265.1,"text":"我個人覺得我會後回去了解詳細的情形我覺得這要有一個制度性的啦對,你要接受制度,說有些這個待會球場的效果比由民間、由漁民自己去組成這個球場力道可能會由公部門組成會比較好一點我個人會就是說"},{"start":12267.342,"end":12271.923,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":12296.567,"end":12298.228,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":12322.408,"end":12336.705,"text":"其實他所負責的這些漁港的維護還有包括養殖的部分其實有一些不足的地方那這個部分我想我們會來去想辦法去處理因為魚也特別是漁港的部分雖然說是二類漁港縣市政府"},{"start":12337.125,"end":12339.666,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":12360.494,"end":12363.957,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":12375.546,"end":12402.675,"text":"今天作為目前大概以我們部理院目前現行的做法就是多管齊下因地制宜。這是原則啦,但是具體的做法要很清楚的告訴包括地方政府要怎麼配合。很多地方政府他沒有辦法有達成你們相關的這個要求。你說你要任領養的循環到一定程度,你的這個部分林撲沙才能達到這個你政策目的對不對?沒錯。"},{"start":12404.298,"end":12406.179,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":12425.209,"end":12428.931,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":12453.641,"end":12474.043,"text":"都沒有辦法達成這個年度目標,所以他必須辦保留。很多這種狀況都地方政府沒辦法執行。你地方政府沒辦法配合的話,你這個林木柏拉就沒辦法落實。市長,你要瞭解問題在哪裡。有,委員我這不清楚,嘿對。那針對這些相對比較消極的地方政府,"},{"start":12475.017,"end":12492.449,"text":"你有沒有什麼好的對策目前的話我們會依據各地方政府的一些執行的一些狀況去調整這些的所謂的協助那這部分我們會去做一個動態的一個滾動的一個處理我是選擇永安有一個永安區永安區這個"},{"start":12494.708,"end":12500.671,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":12521.98,"end":12533.377,"text":"所以你為什麼精進作為為什麼要有這個為這個為這個為這個野生動物而走就是你目前做法太過這個消極對策不對"},{"start":12537.657,"end":12540.558,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":12571.834,"end":12588.6,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":12597.028,"end":12617.415,"text":"委員長部長好我要跟你請教一下我們11月7日和行政院長見面我們是不是要求你為農民要的需求邊滿邊足你說是不是我們你只要回是不是我們要求"},{"start":12619.622,"end":12625.184,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12642.731,"end":12645.173,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12665.058,"end":12686.281,"text":"我想羊奶本身它不像牛奶那麼普遍性然後它現在有它自己的通路那我們當初在考慮就是被影響嘛有通路但是因為我們推廣就是斑斑有些奶是他們有被影響因為現在目前羊乳進到學校的比例其實並不高不過"},{"start":12686.801,"end":12714.722,"text":"我想我們在推動牛奶的部分我們也不會放棄到羊奶的部分所以羊奶的部分其實我們在思考從綠色照護的角度去協助他們進到我們的綠色照護的供應系統希望我們部長這邊有協助因為這個是他們的反應再來就是請教我們的部長斑斑有鮮奶現在就是很多的亂象就是中華民國羊羊協會有監獄"},{"start":12715.623,"end":12716.684,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":12731.533,"end":12735.116,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":12758.858,"end":12777.086,"text":"我跟委員報告,我們現在正在規劃下學期以後的這些……對,所以說我最不想聽的就是在規劃中、演繹中、討論中所以我們希望就是要求我們是有一個具體的計畫幫助到他們才是真正的解決問題"},{"start":12778.226,"end":12783.51,"text":"一個非常重要的就是我們未來的一個對所以這個部分我希望就是我們農業部要提出一個計畫具體的計畫我們希望有這樣的具體的計畫我們會提出來適當的方法還有針對就是我們農業部這邊就是動保師長在11月10日在那個野生動物"},{"start":12800.683,"end":12802.224,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":12830.843,"end":12848.821,"text":"公知源頭是施主的責任但偏遠的地區很多施主採用就是放生方式來去養我們的狗狗多數就是為進行就是決議還有根據我們的相信我們的"},{"start":12850.803,"end":12852.644,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":12872.034,"end":12874.455,"text":"修法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及"},{"start":12895.645,"end":12897.707,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":12926.83,"end":12928.554,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":12931.291,"end":12936.374,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":12966.696,"end":12974.543,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":12981.001,"end":12982.643,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":12996.237,"end":13003.52,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":13014.615,"end":13016.077,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":13034.213,"end":13051.132,"text":"如果2020是15萬隻的話到2023年可能到18萬到19萬隻去了那現在我們降在16萬隻的部分表示說我們現在的做法是有一些成效這第一個說明第二個說明說以現在的這樣的一個進度跟現在的方法"},{"start":13051.773,"end":13069.748,"text":"我必須承認2032年要達到零流浪犬的機會非常非常小但是我們一定會持續的去努力所以我們現在把所有的熱區的部分已經縮小到每一個村里了解那因為我就覺得最近我剛剛看到很多政府的政策都是"},{"start":13070.569,"end":13072.831,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":13090.804,"end":13106.25,"text":"當然我可以知道這個很辛苦啦可是總是你預估跟你達到差距很遠或說這個做不到我覺得就不是很妥當啦就民眾而言其實民眾對政府還是希望能夠行的那你知道現在我們保育隊的食譜大概還有多少隻?"},{"start":13107.659,"end":13111.64,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":13127.927,"end":13130.669,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":13138.752,"end":13161.075,"text":"不到一個月左右就死掉就被攻擊死亡了所以變成說我們其實一直希望做保育把台灣的原生種啦能夠繼續的繁殖繁衍下去但是有時候會不會是因為我們對於遊蕩犬的管理不好就反而又去影響到我們希望另外做成的保育的一些計畫你們有沒有想過這個問題"},{"start":13163.899,"end":13172.505,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":13193.089,"end":13205.326,"text":"15死亡入沙的比例遠比犬隻還高那是另外一個原因我懂那是另外一個原因但是我必須講一個就是說如果我們的遊蕩犬沒有管理好的話他會造成其他的問題"},{"start":13207.368,"end":13228.521,"text":"當然我們也知道為什麼這個遊蕩犬它的數量也降不低其實有一個問題就是民眾會餵食當然這民眾他也是去一個愛心去餵食但是我想說餵食的問題還是要想辦法解決對不對然後包括收容的問題我希望說你們還是能夠提供一個比較有效的方式看要怎麼樣"},{"start":13229.844,"end":13235.488,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":13256.783,"end":13258.364,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":13276.101,"end":13276.921,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":13297.734,"end":13301.297,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":13319.795,"end":13322.416,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":13347.01,"end":13374.091,"text":"就是彌補他們的成本或是會不會到最後都血本無歸再麻煩部長注意一下喔就是說部長要麻煩您能夠同意就是說告訴我們到底這次能夠調整哪些項目還有進了多少您說年底前會有一個結論嗎?對我們大概11月底就會去做內幕討論好那這個可不可以再給我們一下就對於這些農人您的補助對如果說有初步的這些調整的部分我想我們第一時間都會跟委員溝通而且讓委員知道"},{"start":13374.531,"end":13393.286,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":13405.356,"end":13417.516,"text":"我們終於要修動物保護法了齁我想非常感謝趙偉拍攝齁那部長我想先請問你一個問題你有去過夜市嗎有那你有知道夜市裡面有很多的趣味遊戲不知道你有沒有玩過"},{"start":13418.899,"end":13419.739,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":13436.525,"end":13445.249,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案"},{"start":13461.897,"end":13484.822,"text":"其中我也針對第10條第3款提出了一個修改以直接間接賭博娛樂遊戲營業宣傳或其他不當目的進行動物交換與贈與為什麼會做出這樣的修正是因為我們認為現在的樣態把它歸類為賭博跟不當目的我想基本上夜市的遊戲你很難去定義它可以認同嗎"},{"start":13486.147,"end":13509.737,"text":"我想我們在處理這個部分的時候我們收集了很多外界的意見特別是您剛才講的夜市相關的這些動物的這些行為那他有不同的非常大的不同的聲音所以我們我們基本上支持是說適度的去禁止但是可能要有一些但書有一些弱智的條款你有看過夾娃娃機裡面有放那個活體動物的嗎你有看過嗎夾娃娃機"},{"start":13512.226,"end":13531.795,"text":"經濟部有明文禁止不能做這樣的行為。曾有這樣子的一個案例。這就是因為這樣子我們才關注。對不對。我想再來實際面來說長期以來這些動物的飼養環境你根本不知道是什麼樣的一個狀況。所以小肚子老鼠他們繁殖能力很快也很強但是不用負任何的責任因為這些商人他不會去講究飼養的一個環境。"},{"start":13533.516,"end":13544.081,"text":"通常這些在夜市看到的小動物他們的環境、飼養狀況是非常的糟糕的所以有的因為擁擠、髒亂甚至缺乏基本的照顧所以你可以看到他們就是病奄奄的你有看過嗎?"},{"start":13546.007,"end":13563.926,"text":"我看過有看過啦齁所以我們根本就不知道他生活條件好或不好對商人而言他們就是可以用用過就丟對他們來說他們就是商品他們就是獎品所以當然會發生有可能的後續不當飼養棄養的一個問題我想因為得到這些獎品的人也不知道準備好了沒"},{"start":13564.426,"end":13590.472,"text":"我想這些東西都是問題環環相扣所以我昨天看到經濟部今天的一個報告經濟部對於這一條是非常支持的我們感到非常欣慰但是農業部呢剛剛你回答有一點點模糊喔到底農業部知不知識我講基本上我們尊重而且支持但是我剛才說的因為有些條文在我們收集意見的時候有非常多的爭議所以這些爭議可能必須要有一些單數的規定去做一個環環的處理"},{"start":13591.992,"end":13605.999,"text":"當然樂於去積極探討啦對於法律這些漏洞我們希望逐條討論的時候能夠積極去解決這些問題把這些漏洞補起來禁止把動物當作獎品落實生命教育我們一起來努力再來我想跟你討論到台灣目前的科學應用機構"},{"start":13609.58,"end":13631.188,"text":"規劃專業的獸醫師制度。」之前農業部我們在民國108年12月有出一個《動物福利白皮書》在這裡面的第29頁裡面有談到動物科學應用機構之監督管理人代加強裡面主要三大重點缺乏一致的管理措施內外查核不嚴謹不專業專業的獸醫師缺乏動物照護管理不足"},{"start":13635.97,"end":13653.392,"text":"也就是說其實農業部你們自己也知道動物科學應用機構的監督管理是不足的那要如何將專業的獸醫師制度的角色納入到查核過程中?農業部目前有沒有具體的一個作為?我跟我一樣的話就是現在目前有關於類似"},{"start":13653.953,"end":13658.716,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":13677.007,"end":13684.096,"text":"專業的獸醫師缺乏嘛那又缺工的一個狀況到底能不能引進或者是納入一個角色動物福利白皮書這個第29頁你有看過嗎"},{"start":13686.557,"end":13706.23,"text":"我忘了我可能看過整份的但是我不知道或許很多啦但不可能就叫哪一頁你一定很清楚但我現在提醒你第29頁你們自己都寫這個都寫出來了所謂的科學應用監督管理人代加強所以我希望本席認為科學應用機構應該要設置獸醫師確保每個科學應用的計畫都有專業的資格的獸醫師來幫忙協助監督可以支持嗎"},{"start":13712.995,"end":13713.695,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":13730.266,"end":13755.874,"text":"社會觀感不佳社會也希望能夠有這樣子收益師必須實際參與計畫審查審查後的監督及動物的一個照護確保研究計畫實驗設計依據合可的一個內容執行我們都擔心沒有必要去造成動物不必要的一個痛苦對不對所以內外部的查核不嚴謹不專業的問題也才可以迎刃而解這部分農業部可不可以研議看看"},{"start":13756.354,"end":13757.574,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":13791.185,"end":13819.222,"text":"請羅志祥委員質詢。主席有請部長。請陳部長。委員好。部長好。請問您有看到日前桃園爆出有人經營非法屠宰場殺害數百隻犬隻賣狗肉多年的新聞嗎?"},{"start":13820.64,"end":13821.357,"text":"5、"},{"start":13821.878,"end":13827.542,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":13850.996,"end":13853.32,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":13866.673,"end":13884.04,"text":"是因為屠狗者的家人看不下去才主動檢舉的。那為什麼我講這事情嚴重?它也顯現出今天我們的稽查的人力的部分可能是不足夠的。我們目前全國的專職的動保檢查員大概多少人?"},{"start":13884.44,"end":13906.876,"text":"我們農業部補助大概100個人總共是190幾個人但是目前我們動保檢查員的公權力其實相對來講的強度非常薄弱所以他在執法上就會出現很多的困難也因此有很多的動保團體倡議說呼籲要設立專職的動保警察制度來因應"},{"start":13908.237,"end":13930.414,"text":"如果有專職的動保警察的話那很多動保案件跟動保悲劇就比較有較強的公權力可以來去防止它的發生那我想請問部長您支持嗎我想有關於動保警察的部分其實我們當初包括委員您也提出來然後我們也曾經跟內政部在討論那討論的一個過程就是說"},{"start":13931.275,"end":13950.444,"text":"一旦設了動保警察的時候那相關的其他的業務也有不同的專案的警察會出來所以他們是更積極的去建立當我們有案子發生的時候我們的動檢員可以直接跟警察局做聯絡以後警察會第一時間來配合所以這個機制現在越來越順暢"},{"start":13953.306,"end":13965.215,"text":"我先在這邊打斷,因為你後續的做法段,你們再整理一份報告給我。但我要看的是所謂執行的績效段。實際上我先請教部長,農業部2023年辦理動保檢舉申訴的稽查案件多少件?7.3萬件左右。差不多7萬多吧。對,7萬多件。裁除幾件?"},{"start":13979.534,"end":13982.598,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":13994.983,"end":14013.201,"text":"大概每一年通報的話大概是一千二到一千四然後今年的話這是883件對好那最後有幾件是按照動物保護法來判刑喔比例很低非常低嘛大概0.3而已嘛對啊那其實有一個很大的原因啦"},{"start":14014.022,"end":14041.872,"text":"就是因為我剛剛前面的講的說其實動保警察的設置他不僅是增強稽查的那個人力稽查的執法的一個後盾還有一點就是在修正上他會比較齊全啦所以因為現在很多東西就是說你就算抓了以後你會發現罰也罰不了然後那個在這個刑事的訴追上也會有障礙就是因為在前端實際上你的執法的這個所謂的那個後盾不夠"},{"start":14042.612,"end":14043.833,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":14064.228,"end":14082.205,"text":"我跟委員報告這是我們修法的部分有賦予動保檢察員執法的一個權利讓他可以進到私立運營這是第一件事情第二件事情如果跟內政部動保檢察沒辦法成立的時候我們有考慮成立一個動保官的概念類似消保官的概念"},{"start":14082.645,"end":14085.811,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":14103.257,"end":14119.447,"text":"請賴思寶﹑賴思寶﹑賴思寶委員不在請何新淳﹑何新淳﹑何新淳﹑何新淳委員不在請李坤澄﹑李坤澄﹑李坤澄﹑李坤澄委員不在請高金素梅﹑高金素梅﹑高金素梅委員不在請洪森漢委員諮詢。"},{"start":14133.595,"end":14136.022,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":14146.319,"end":14162.738,"text":"市長上個禮拜天其實有這個將近五千位關心生態保育的民眾上了街頭那他們非常關注遊蕩犬貓其實對於目前生態的大概的一些衝擊部長應該知道這件事情吧?知道部長其實我認為你應該到場的"},{"start":14165.671,"end":14189.167,"text":"其實現場有很多是我們生態領域的專家學者其實他們都是可以幫助我們來解決相關問題的很重要的以重的幫手那不然我想先請問農業部其實在犬貓與野生動物保育之這個農業部是犬貓跟野生動物保育的主管機關那對於大家現在擔心的這些問題這個農業部打算怎麼處理"},{"start":14190.277,"end":14212.234,"text":"我想因為他們的訴求大概有三個層次就是第一個部分就是針對比較重要就是針對流浪犬的這些更積極有效的處理的方式那這個處理方式當然我們現在目前有我們的有我們的規劃包括盪到熱區盪到村裡可是我一直覺得盪到村裡以後還是有村裡的執行是不夠的"},{"start":14212.995,"end":14233.053,"text":"所以我後續會去研議用一個跨村裡的一個團隊去共同執行的方式可能會有比較好的效果不然我因為我就直接講我們想提醒的重點我知道你們現在大家有所謂生態熱區的計畫這部分動物動保師其實也有在改善這部分我們都歡迎鼓勵"},{"start":14234.557,"end":14261.879,"text":"但其實我想更重要的事情是其實農業部轄下也有很多的保護區這保護區裡面我們目前也看到很多野生動物被咬傷的這個案例包括我們現在看到幾個例子裡面包括四草野生動物保護區裡面的黑面皮魯或者香山濕地的這重要的水鳥其實都有遇到攻擊但是他們現在遇到的威脅不只是這個遊蕩犬毛也還有包括其他的但是這裡面看起來"},{"start":14262.339,"end":14268.081,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":14288.289,"end":14315.528,"text":"所以我們現在看到幾個狀況包括其實內政部所管的國家公園裡面已經有禁止民眾餵食遊蕩犬貓的規定了那也包括農業部為了預防狂犬病的傳染其實也禁止民眾把犬貓帶入自然保護區可是我們剛剛針對這幾個農業部所寫下的保護區的概念裡面我們沒有看到類似包括你該做的一致的操作指引"},{"start":14316.067,"end":14345.527,"text":"或者是禁止民眾餵食這樣的規範我們目前其實沒有看到部長你覺不覺得我們在這幾個反而更重要的保護區裡面有更珍貴的這個動植物應該要做相關的規範部長我非常認同這之前我也跟我們的相關的林保署等單位處理過就是說我們化電液自然保護區裡面也要一定要禁止餵食你如果沒有禁止餵食什麼都不要談部長如果你有這個概念的話我覺得我們就把行動做出來吧"},{"start":14346.267,"end":14361.736,"text":"該做的規範包括依次的質疑我們可不可以在兩個月內把這樣子的做法把它給提出來 這應該不難我們可以提出來但是我們現在的同仁回報的問題就是說我禁止餵食以後後面的法則要跟著出來不能是沒有用的"},{"start":14362.116,"end":14389.202,"text":"不然我覺得因為這裡面牽涉到你們保護區裡面88個我也同意你們找出有最嚴重的有一個優先順序我這同意可是我們開始有所行動好不好這我想提醒的第一點第二點我想提醒喔其實我們現在也針對不管是野保法動保法目前都有大修的規劃嘛但是不然我想提醒喔其實我覺得這是一個好的時機我認為應該通盤的檢討動保法野保法畜牧法漁業法等相關法規其實"},{"start":14390.512,"end":14419.611,"text":"很多專家都提醒我們這裡面幾部法裡面都有一些相互衝突重疊或職責模糊的地方那這很造成中央地方無所適從的問題我舉個例子不好意思一點時間比方說野保法第三條對野生動物的定義是一般狀況下生活在自然環境的動物那什麼是一般狀況比方說梅花鹿算不算生活在自然環境下的動物算不算梅花鹿算不算"},{"start":14420.322,"end":14437.268,"text":"棉花鹿應該是一般動物啊對,棉花鹿算不算可是我跟部長說就農業部規定裡面棉花鹿他說棉花鹿不算他不算是野生動物他是家畜可是我們看到肯定很多棉花鹿他沒有飼主啊"},{"start":14438.408,"end":14455.843,"text":"他是家畜,所以你沒有辦法用畜牧法來做管理啊。比方說去年我們看到很多人注目的這個六福村的冬肺肺肺的事件。野生動物被飼主領養了又脫逃,那他到底是要用動保法來管還是野保的主管機關來管,各有各的解讀。"},{"start":14456.584,"end":14469.967,"text":"最後這個獵人就在不知道是誰主管的狀況下下令開槍就造成了這個悲劇所以我說這幾個法規動物保護法、野保護法、畜牧法、漁業法這幾個法規其實是有一些彼此漢格模糊地帶的地方"},{"start":14470.509,"end":14486.357,"text":"我們一個建議是我們也應該趁這個時間點不應該是動保是修自己的動保法然後林保署修自己的野保法那可是彼此中間其實現在很多執行的模糊地帶我認為農業部應該把這件事扛起來假設我們現在這幾個法規都有想要修的打算"},{"start":14486.937,"end":14488.379,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":14502.58,"end":14527.086,"text":"但是你提到的畜牧法的部分我的確是過去是沒有去注意那我想我們後續會再來看畜牧法本身跟動物保護法跟野保護法之間有一些謀無地帶的話我們可以也許如果可以在動物保護裡面去處理就在動物保護裡面去處理但部長我當然知道說這個工作法規的檢討部分會需要一點時間比方說我覺得你可以有三個月的我可以給農業部三個月的時間這些相關的競合把它盤清楚"},{"start":14527.506,"end":14527.866,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":14542.574,"end":14543.655,"text":"部分條文修正草案案件"},{"start":14569.283,"end":14585.632,"text":"請黃建豪﹑黃建豪﹑黃建豪委員不在﹑請郭玉琴委員諮詢。謝謝主席。有請部長。請陳部長。"},{"start":14595.246,"end":14620.103,"text":"部長好,剛剛聽到好消息,12月我們可能就是動物保護法的部分會送院對不對?應該是12月。我們期待啦。首先先強調就是在我關心流氧動物這麼多年的一段時間,其實我們就不斷的在這個總諮詢的時候其實我們也都有談到了。那我先從這個公立收容所的部分來看起啦。"},{"start":14621.324,"end":14634.612,"text":"全台灣的收容所改建完成之後其實最大的流容量最大值是9481隻那相對於現在其實我們統計過後就是在各區的16萬隻的遊蕩犬我想即便是20億幾億的預算下去其實都沒辦法滿足"},{"start":14643.057,"end":14669.278,"text":"這個部分我們知道是非常明顯的不可行另外其實很多人可能就會想說那還有一些民間的收養的收容的部分一些愛爸愛媽他們的一些收容中心這個部分我們是不是可以納入法規來做這樣子的一個管理我們知道2020年其實我們有提到可以跟地方政府來做合作然後輔導這些私人的狗場正常的一個運作但是後來可能真的也無疾而終那目前有沒有最新的進度"},{"start":14670.723,"end":14686.751,"text":"我想特別是剛才委員提到這些數字是我們遇到的困擾所以在源頭的繁殖的部分我們會去加到力道因為繁殖的部分如果能夠掌握它的整個的一個動物的來龍去貓的時候那就會減少它的棄養"},{"start":14687.799,"end":14708.596,"text":"因為有很多的繁殖場是非法繁殖場他是隱身在很多的社區當中狗狗被弄掉生帶他們是真的沒有辦法發出聲音所以其實不為人所知啊對所以這個部分就是我們曾經在修好我剛才說我們尊重委員的版本就是說繁殖場要去管理要更高的強度來管理會比較好一點"},{"start":14709.136,"end":14711.077,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":14729.306,"end":14734.808,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":14757.276,"end":14758.497,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":14781.28,"end":14796.054,"text":"也公告了就是今年8月之後其實我們的家貓開始要做這樣子的寵物登記但是呢很多人就會擔心他如果跟狂犬病疫苗綁在一起其實他有可能會導致所謂的惡性腫瘤的這個部分"},{"start":14796.654,"end":14824.785,"text":"這個部分我們有因應方法嗎?其實我們現在有提出更科學的證據就是過去我們已經施打了100萬隻左右大概沒有什麼特別的問題所以我想把登記跟狂犬病本身它可能會造成的一些負面的影響我們用科學證據讓民眾知道這是一件事情第二件事情我也可以先考慮登記跟打狂犬病是不是可以先適度的脫鉤因為登記是一個非常重要的管理的手段"},{"start":14825.385,"end":14828.408,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":14845.166,"end":14866.963,"text":"其實我提了很多的意見尤其是在虐待動物的部分那這個部分呢其實我想飼養寵物其實有很多不同的方式都有可能碰及觸及到所謂的虐待的一些行為包含他不當的飼養關籠或者是牽繩這永遠就看著或者是一直在頂樓然後只給水然後也沒有陪伴這個部分其實我們到目前為止"},{"start":14868.724,"end":14871.468,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":14886.047,"end":14888.89,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":14902.924,"end":14905.947,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":14935.896,"end":14951.82,"text":"請賴會員、賴會員、賴會員委員不在。請羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。請徐富奎委員質詢。謝主席。有請陳部長。請陳部長。委員好。部長好。"},{"start":14961.014,"end":14983.271,"text":"部長,我上個禮拜約了我們農糧署還有我們農改長還有縣政府的同仁一起去看我們這個康納颱風造成我們屏東紅豆受損的一個災情。那也感謝部長﹑已經公告了吧?對,感謝部長這個禮拜一公告。但是我要跟部長反映另外一個問題我們的紅豆除了怕颱風之外還怕另外一個動物叫綠獵蜥。"},{"start":14984.632,"end":14988.015,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15008.051,"end":15028.32,"text":"是不是可以請部長針對農民這樣一個致力救濟的方式應該是不是給予這樣的一個所謂的一個資產的一個補助的一個方案我感謝委員對這個議題的關心我也在考慮就是應該會去做就是說如果農民自主去抓到濾劣期的某種獎勵就像我們之前針對這些"},{"start":15029.821,"end":15032.924,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15059.384,"end":15063.667,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":15087.005,"end":15088.486,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15108.894,"end":15113.215,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":15130.1,"end":15144.529,"text":"真的非常非常的恐怖所以這部分是不是馬上部長我會來重視包括剛才您所提到的獎勵抓到獎勵的部分我想我們會來設計我想鄉親不是要獎勵他們是如何去防範農作物受損防範也是另外一件事情"},{"start":15145.129,"end":15172.989,"text":"另外我們剛剛洪森委員提到墾丁煤貨爐的問題這也是一個很嚴重的一個問題除了發生車禍之外他們也會大量的用一些紅龍果這些農作物把吃得很乾淨啊這農民真的是苦不堪言啊這就這樣一個防範措施是不是有考慮立委我們一個所謂一個農損的一個天然災害救助我想以現在天然災害救助是沒辦法納入但是我剛才也說過了就是我會去考慮說像這種非"},{"start":15175.034,"end":15189.991,"text":"就是因為特殊的物種像梅花鹿包括米紅他侵害農作物造成的這些損失我們要用什麼方式來協助這個我想也農委員給我們一點時間我們在內部去討論因為討論如果說確定可以的話我們就要編列相關的經費"},{"start":15190.752,"end":15192.272,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15222.13,"end":15236.455,"text":"我們是用專案的方式來協助,不是用天然栽培救豬﹚您給我們的回覆是沒有嗎?會,我們會來處理啊,因為我之前一個棍委員說過,我們不能用天然栽培救豬,但是我們會來用專案的方式﹚因為帆布也是屬於養豬設施的一環啊,尤其我們鄉下找紅嘛,這部長很清楚嘛,這部分希望能夠正視這個問題,那部長針對"},{"start":15244.037,"end":15267.802,"text":"這一個問題就是針對我們一直在質詢所謂同產計作物的這個救助的部分部長有答應說要研議那目前研議的方向我跟委員報告就天然災害救助的辦法我們未來一定是每年1月1號1月就會公告新的方法那我們現在正在處理兩個議題包括您所關心的這些同產計或是長期作物的產期另外一個就是現在在救助的金額"},{"start":15268.722,"end":15286.171,"text":"因為有些作物的產量、金額已經很久沒調了。我們會重新計算它的生產成本去做一些調整。大概我們11月底內部會討論。然後我們最慢12月中旬就會確認公布。好,那麻煩再給我們辦公室一份資料。好,謝謝。請傅坤祺委員不在,請張雅琳委員質詢。"},{"start":15309.418,"end":15338.65,"text":"謝謝主席。我們有請部長。請陳部長。好。部長好。我想要先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種應該叫入侵種。入侵種。那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?"},{"start":15339.731,"end":15351.46,"text":"應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。"},{"start":15353.377,"end":15372.688,"text":"根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置"},{"start":15374.349,"end":15390.345,"text":"所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法"},{"start":15391.522,"end":15395.145,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":15408.991,"end":15436.508,"text":"就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的"},{"start":15437.409,"end":15440.972,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":15447.95,"end":15472.151,"text":"但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開罰至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢"},{"start":15472.671,"end":15490.24,"text":"我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法"},{"start":15490.7,"end":15491.301,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容。"},{"start":15509.497,"end":15527.009,"text":"那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說"},{"start":15528.27,"end":15542.68,"text":"他可能是養在外面,他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的"},{"start":15544.221,"end":15546.844,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15563.579,"end":15589.252,"text":"我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了"},{"start":15589.872,"end":15594.173,"text":"擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15614.458,"end":15634.291,"text":"還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的"},{"start":15635.652,"end":15637.833,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":15651.499,"end":15653.46,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15672.428,"end":15678.072,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":15702.295,"end":15703.443,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":15706.138,"end":15725.446,"text":"就是回到我剛剛講的齁我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態齁就11月初呢彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰欸動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計啦預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題嘛到底哪些因為現在"},{"start":15734.31,"end":15761.017,"text":"兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、食人動物、保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的"},{"start":15762.577,"end":15764.878,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":15784.642,"end":15786.163,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":15802.373,"end":15819.282,"text":"的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體"},{"start":15820.342,"end":15829.444,"text":"一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝"},{"start":15845.747,"end":15864.921,"text":"請陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷委員不在請紅夢凱紅夢凱紅夢凱委員不在請徐巧欣徐巧欣徐巧欣委員不在請徐欣盈徐欣盈徐欣盈委員不在請陳亞陳倫培陳倫陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇委員不在"},{"start":15870.261,"end":15894.893,"text":"當屆發言的委員除了不在場的外其餘的均已發言完畢。詢答結束由委員徐欣盈、邱益盈、張家俊、陳冠廷、邱志偉所提的書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。書面質詢和未來的及答覆的部分請相關單位於一週以內書面答覆並複製本會。本日討論的事項"},{"start":15896.595,"end":15902.773,"text":"所列的動物保護法修正草案,詢答完畢,另定其審查。謝謝大家,現在上會。"}]}},{"id":"16258","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16258","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea161a8535b05d3ed390a0be61fea14818edb79b8bfb08e79900783838648b8ef05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:30:30+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:13:00+08:00","duration":16950,"影片長度":"04:42:30","委員發言時間":"08:30:30 - 13:13:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":1998.6890937500002,"end":2000.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2002.2159687500002,"end":2005.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2006.7047187500002,"end":2010.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2011.2440937500003,"end":2026.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2026.9547187500002,"end":2037.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2037.8897187500002,"end":2039.5940937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2039.9484687500003,"end":2042.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2042.36159375,"end":2047.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2048.0653437500005,"end":2051.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2051.5584687500004,"end":2056.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2056.7559687499997,"end":2060.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2061.41346875,"end":2079.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2080.0603437500004,"end":2089.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2089.84784375,"end":2095.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2095.58534375,"end":2101.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2102.14971875,"end":2113.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2113.65846875,"end":2125.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2125.6903437500005,"end":2136.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2138.4140937500006,"end":2138.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2139.5615937500006,"end":2142.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2143.6453437500004,"end":2149.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2150.96909375,"end":2155.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2155.74471875,"end":2160.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2160.31784375,"end":2164.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2164.72221875,"end":2167.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2168.1815937500005,"end":2172.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2172.61971875,"end":2182.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2182.60971875,"end":2198.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2196.78471875,"end":2197.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2198.9278437500006,"end":2203.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2203.3659687500003,"end":2205.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2205.45846875,"end":2208.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2209.00221875,"end":2212.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2213.3222187500005,"end":2214.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2215.26284375,"end":2246.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2246.78534375,"end":2252.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2252.65784375,"end":2254.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2256.7584687500002,"end":2257.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2258.24346875,"end":2269.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2271.4903437500006,"end":2271.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2272.94159375,"end":2274.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2276.9747187500006,"end":2278.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2280.19784375,"end":2284.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2286.3572187500004,"end":2288.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2290.23846875,"end":2290.8965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2293.68096875,"end":2294.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2294.35596875,"end":2295.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2298.1697187500004,"end":2299.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2302.35471875,"end":2304.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2308.75034375,"end":2312.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2314.96034375,"end":2316.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2316.4284687500003,"end":2318.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2322.2334687500006,"end":2324.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2326.72221875,"end":2329.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2332.2234687500004,"end":2334.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2337.13409375,"end":2339.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2342.2303437500004,"end":2344.9978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2347.02284375,"end":2351.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2354.2284687500005,"end":2359.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2361.8897187500006,"end":2367.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2369.19659375,"end":2373.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2375.10284375,"end":2380.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2382.6797187500006,"end":2384.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2385.53159375,"end":2386.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2387.8434687500003,"end":2388.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2389.02471875,"end":2392.8047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2393.42909375,"end":2398.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2398.35659375,"end":2400.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2401.9678437500006,"end":2402.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2405.52846875,"end":2406.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2406.81096875,"end":2406.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2409.93284375,"end":2466.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2467.5947187500005,"end":2491.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":2492.01284375,"end":2494.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2496.11346875,"end":2499.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2508.7528437500005,"end":2514.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2515.60409375,"end":2519.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2519.9578437500004,"end":2524.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2524.8347187500003,"end":2583.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2584.0322187500005,"end":2595.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2596.51971875,"end":2597.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2597.9540937500005,"end":2605.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2610.88034375,"end":2627.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2628.16034375,"end":2630.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2631.0459687500006,"end":2633.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2633.2059687500005,"end":2635.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2635.65284375,"end":2641.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2641.55909375,"end":2779.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2780.0859687500006,"end":2801.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2801.55096875,"end":2814.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":2814.8484687500004,"end":2814.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2814.94971875,"end":2820.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2820.95721875,"end":2837.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2837.5790937500005,"end":2867.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2867.8190937500003,"end":2949.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2949.4434687500006,"end":2957.4422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2957.5603437500004,"end":2984.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2984.35784375,"end":2988.3065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2988.39096875,"end":2992.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2993.03159375,"end":3000.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3000.4734687500004,"end":3005.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3006.0759687500004,"end":3012.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3012.5390937500006,"end":3019.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3019.3565937500007,"end":3022.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3022.7822187500005,"end":3091.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3091.4803437500004,"end":3115.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3115.7634687500004,"end":3122.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3124.0153437500003,"end":3144.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3144.5859687500006,"end":3152.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3153.1922187500004,"end":3166.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3166.3884687500004,"end":3168.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3168.7003437500007,"end":3180.0909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3180.22596875,"end":3199.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3200.1384687500004,"end":3209.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3209.52096875,"end":3268.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3268.6678437500004,"end":3293.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3293.59221875,"end":3364.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3365.0915937500004,"end":3494.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3495.01221875,"end":3502.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3503.14596875,"end":3651.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3651.4265937500004,"end":3672.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3673.6172187500006,"end":3674.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3675.5240937500002,"end":3675.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3676.1990937500004,"end":3677.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3677.5828437500004,"end":3679.8947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3679.0509687500007,"end":3783.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3788.70471875,"end":3814.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3815.1984687500008,"end":3821.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3834.1659687500005,"end":3839.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3839.92034375,"end":3840.7472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":3846.4172187500008,"end":3847.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3847.14284375,"end":3847.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3847.76721875,"end":3850.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3851.0240937500002,"end":3881.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3882.83346875,"end":3888.6047187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3888.9590937500006,"end":3901.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3902.40846875,"end":3914.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3914.3053437500002,"end":3918.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3918.6590937500005,"end":3929.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3930.6403437500003,"end":3946.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":3946.5028437500005,"end":3969.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3960.50909375,"end":3960.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3962.6522187500004,"end":3962.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3962.7197187500005,"end":3963.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3964.2722187500003,"end":3964.4747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3969.2165937500004,"end":3992.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":3993.1959687500002,"end":4000.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3993.8034687500003,"end":3994.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3999.1359687500008,"end":4002.2072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4001.97096875,"end":4004.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4005.24471875,"end":4023.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4005.9872187500005,"end":4007.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4022.0690937500003,"end":4028.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4028.9540937500005,"end":4034.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4033.56096875,"end":4039.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4039.53471875,"end":4041.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4041.15471875,"end":4041.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4041.9647187500004,"end":4044.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4045.00221875,"end":4048.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4049.2040937500005,"end":4072.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4072.74471875,"end":4076.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4076.4572187500007,"end":4081.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4082.2115937500002,"end":4085.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4085.80596875,"end":4089.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4089.5184687500005,"end":4091.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4091.3915937500005,"end":4091.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4091.72909375,"end":4098.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4098.5634687500005,"end":4104.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4104.419093750001,"end":4109.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4109.667218750001,"end":4126.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4127.1834687499995,"end":4144.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4145.25659375,"end":4163.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4162.401593750001,"end":4167.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4163.903468750001,"end":4164.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4165.624718749999,"end":4168.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4168.13909375,"end":4168.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4168.8309687500005,"end":4168.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4168.965968750001,"end":4169.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4170.38346875,"end":4172.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":4172.610968749999,"end":4174.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4174.12971875,"end":4174.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4174.163468750001,"end":4174.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4174.3153437500005,"end":4174.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4176.036593750001,"end":4180.204718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4180.28909375,"end":4203.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4201.4334687499995,"end":4201.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4202.26034375,"end":4228.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4229.41221875,"end":4229.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4231.18409375,"end":4231.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4232.17971875,"end":4238.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4238.4403437500005,"end":4259.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4260.71534375,"end":4270.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4270.249718749999,"end":4275.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4275.970343749999,"end":4281.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4281.80909375,"end":4283.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4284.76221875,"end":4318.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4312.08284375,"end":4316.048468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4318.343468749999,"end":4325.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4325.194718750001,"end":4328.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4326.91596875,"end":4330.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4330.493468750001,"end":4331.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4331.624093750001,"end":4339.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4339.639718750001,"end":4351.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4350.01784375,"end":4351.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4352.26221875,"end":4352.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4352.41409375,"end":4365.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4365.66096875,"end":4387.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4388.104718750001,"end":4393.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4393.825343750001,"end":4417.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4416.48846875,"end":4420.065968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4420.08284375,"end":4421.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4421.97284375,"end":4422.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4422.782843749999,"end":4429.347218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4429.634093750001,"end":4431.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4431.81096875,"end":4458.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4462.23659375,"end":4462.253468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":4462.253468749999,"end":4463.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4477.55909375,"end":4479.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4481.0184687500005,"end":4482.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4482.790343750001,"end":4483.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4486.452218750001,"end":4486.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4486.485968749999,"end":4487.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4486.80659375,"end":4487.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4488.780968749999,"end":4488.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":4493.11784375,"end":4493.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4493.64096875,"end":4543.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4543.84409375,"end":4554.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4549.17659375,"end":4549.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4550.69534375,"end":4641.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4641.14534375,"end":4649.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4649.92034375,"end":4689.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4689.49221875,"end":4711.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4712.12159375,"end":4775.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4775.571593750001,"end":4777.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4778.153468750001,"end":4798.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4798.437218749999,"end":4821.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4821.28596875,"end":4853.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4851.593468749999,"end":4854.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":4854.25971875,"end":4860.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4859.153468750001,"end":4859.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4860.09846875,"end":4916.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4916.342843750001,"end":4940.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4940.59221875,"end":4941.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4941.58784375,"end":4947.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4947.460343750001,"end":4982.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4983.218468749999,"end":5014.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5014.8084687499995,"end":5047.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5047.866593750001,"end":5065.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5057.4178437499995,"end":5058.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5064.25221875,"end":5065.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5065.70346875,"end":5065.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5071.592843750001,"end":5072.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5082.57846875,"end":5084.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5085.02534375,"end":5085.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5092.264718750001,"end":5092.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5092.97346875,"end":5094.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5094.28971875,"end":5114.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5115.450968749999,"end":5130.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5130.503468750001,"end":5144.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5144.59409375,"end":5173.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5173.028468750001,"end":5211.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5179.98096875,"end":5180.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5209.32659375,"end":5229.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5229.509093750001,"end":5247.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5247.02534375,"end":5257.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5255.715968750001,"end":5275.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5275.5947187500005,"end":5293.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5275.61159375,"end":5278.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5283.374093750001,"end":5290.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5293.9715937500005,"end":5309.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5299.8778437500005,"end":5300.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5308.23096875,"end":5317.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5314.542218750001,"end":5329.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5319.53721875,"end":5320.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5320.9715937500005,"end":5321.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5321.03909375,"end":5321.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5321.96721875,"end":5322.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5331.450968749999,"end":5356.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5356.03784375,"end":5356.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5356.965968750001,"end":5371.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5371.93409375,"end":5371.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5371.967843750001,"end":5372.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5372.03534375,"end":5372.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5372.08596875,"end":5372.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5372.288468750001,"end":5372.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5372.35596875,"end":5372.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5372.372843749999,"end":5372.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5372.5584687499995,"end":5374.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5375.055968750001,"end":5399.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5375.477843750001,"end":5377.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5399.03534375,"end":5420.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5405.78534375,"end":5408.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5410.51034375,"end":5410.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5418.1884687500005,"end":5421.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5421.833468750001,"end":5434.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5435.26596875,"end":5435.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5435.95784375,"end":5444.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5445.20534375,"end":5454.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5450.841593749999,"end":5450.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5451.0947187500005,"end":5452.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5452.022843750001,"end":5453.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5456.714093750001,"end":5486.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5489.08034375,"end":5490.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5490.02534375,"end":5490.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5490.86909375,"end":5493.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5490.9872187500005,"end":5504.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5504.97659375,"end":5527.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5505.887843750001,"end":5506.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5507.25471875,"end":5507.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5507.96346875,"end":5508.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5508.975968750001,"end":5509.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5509.026593750001,"end":5509.110968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5509.110968749999,"end":5509.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5526.01971875,"end":5534.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5530.8290937500005,"end":5556.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5557.677218750001,"end":5569.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5569.354718750001,"end":5628.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5612.95971875,"end":5616.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5629.24409375,"end":5632.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5632.61909375,"end":5632.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5632.720343749999,"end":5637.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5637.52971875,"end":5642.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5642.54159375,"end":5643.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5647.249718749999,"end":5648.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5655.417218750001,"end":5656.345343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5656.51409375,"end":5657.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5658.1678437499995,"end":5658.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5667.7528437500005,"end":5668.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5669.25471875,"end":5693.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5696.659718750001,"end":5702.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5702.295968750001,"end":5709.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5709.839093750001,"end":5713.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5713.484093749999,"end":5733.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5734.358468750001,"end":5740.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5740.956593750001,"end":5749.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5750.40659375,"end":5752.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5752.954718749999,"end":5761.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5762.286593750001,"end":5777.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":5779.36409375,"end":5781.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5781.76034375,"end":5783.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5783.41409375,"end":5784.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5785.017218749999,"end":5811.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5812.00034375,"end":5812.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5814.042218750001,"end":5833.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5833.904093749999,"end":5846.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5846.77971875,"end":5848.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5848.78784375,"end":5852.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5853.1415937500005,"end":5877.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5878.23471875,"end":5913.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5912.997218750001,"end":5917.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5920.37159375,"end":5929.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5929.686593750001,"end":5950.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5950.03784375,"end":5959.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5959.167218750001,"end":5967.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5967.790343750001,"end":5967.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5968.5497187500005,"end":5968.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5968.583468750001,"end":5976.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5977.08846875,"end":5991.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5981.610968750001,"end":5981.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5981.64471875,"end":5981.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5981.96534375,"end":5982.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5991.5165937500005,"end":5991.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5991.8709687499995,"end":5991.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5991.972218750001,"end":5991.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5991.98909375,"end":5992.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5992.022843750001,"end":6007.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5993.811593750001,"end":5994.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6008.50971875,"end":6009.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6009.52221875,"end":6009.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6010.349093750001,"end":6018.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6016.87971875,"end":6019.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6019.495343750001,"end":6028.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6020.77784375,"end":6021.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6028.70909375,"end":6028.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6028.8778437500005,"end":6028.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6028.962218750001,"end":6028.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6028.9959687499995,"end":6029.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6029.02971875,"end":6040.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6039.087218750001,"end":6042.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6041.60159375,"end":6067.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6067.909718750001,"end":6071.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6072.229718750001,"end":6073.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6075.09846875,"end":6080.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6081.173468750001,"end":6082.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6083.434718750001,"end":6083.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6084.80159375,"end":6086.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6086.421593749999,"end":6086.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6086.607218749999,"end":6086.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6086.894093750001,"end":6087.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6088.0584687499995,"end":6089.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6089.30721875,"end":6089.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6089.86409375,"end":6091.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6091.04534375,"end":6098.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6096.0740937499995,"end":6097.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6098.436593750001,"end":6120.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6121.09971875,"end":6124.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6124.8290937500005,"end":6135.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6125.0653437500005,"end":6125.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6133.70534375,"end":6134.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6134.54909375,"end":6147.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6135.81471875,"end":6136.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6142.5478437500005,"end":6142.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6147.880343750001,"end":6148.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6148.217843750001,"end":6148.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6152.45346875,"end":6153.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6161.07659375,"end":6163.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6164.53596875,"end":6165.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6172.399718750001,"end":6172.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6172.4334687499995,"end":6172.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6172.770968750001,"end":6172.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6172.78784375,"end":6172.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6172.80471875,"end":6172.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6173.091593749999,"end":6229.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6229.70721875,"end":6242.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6243.038468750001,"end":6251.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6251.08784375,"end":6252.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6253.61909375,"end":6257.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6257.77034375,"end":6265.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6265.499093750001,"end":6268.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6269.380343750001,"end":6272.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6272.940968750001,"end":6289.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6289.343468749999,"end":6376.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6302.944718750001,"end":6303.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6304.22721875,"end":6304.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6372.638468749999,"end":6373.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6385.294718749999,"end":6442.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6442.770968750001,"end":6447.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6442.8553437499995,"end":6446.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6447.24284375,"end":6447.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6447.327218750001,"end":6447.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6447.52971875,"end":6447.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6447.7997187500005,"end":6447.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6447.968468749999,"end":6449.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6448.4072187500005,"end":6448.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6452.59221875,"end":6458.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6458.5322187500005,"end":6461.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6461.63721875,"end":6488.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6488.097218750001,"end":6488.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6488.8397187499995,"end":6497.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6498.01971875,"end":6538.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6505.343468749999,"end":6506.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6539.515343749999,"end":6558.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6558.972218750001,"end":6583.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6583.03596875,"end":6583.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6584.30159375,"end":6677.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6677.97471875,"end":6681.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6682.210343750001,"end":6683.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6684.25221875,"end":6686.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6687.374093750001,"end":6688.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6695.288468750001,"end":6699.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6699.76034375,"end":6700.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6700.030343750001,"end":6707.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6707.53971875,"end":6710.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6710.08784375,"end":6713.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6714.25596875,"end":6720.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6720.8709687499995,"end":6721.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6721.88346875,"end":6725.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6726.3553437499995,"end":6730.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6731.468468749999,"end":6732.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6732.548468750001,"end":6734.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6734.657843750001,"end":6736.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6736.80096875,"end":6737.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6738.555968750001,"end":6753.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6754.18221875,"end":6755.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6756.510968750001,"end":6760.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6761.151593750001,"end":6761.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6761.82659375,"end":6763.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6763.581593750001,"end":6765.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6766.4334687499995,"end":6767.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6768.880343750001,"end":6769.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6770.83784375,"end":6774.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6774.38159375,"end":6779.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6776.54159375,"end":6777.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6779.96721875,"end":6800.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6786.21096875,"end":6788.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6788.185343749999,"end":6788.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6788.97846875,"end":6789.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6789.974093750001,"end":6790.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6790.66596875,"end":6790.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6801.29721875,"end":6804.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6805.161593750001,"end":6811.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6812.08034375,"end":6816.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6812.18159375,"end":6812.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6812.21534375,"end":6812.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6812.97471875,"end":6813.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6814.257218750001,"end":6814.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6816.366593750001,"end":6820.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6816.501593750001,"end":6817.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6819.825968749999,"end":6820.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6820.8553437499995,"end":6826.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6827.63909375,"end":6829.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6829.79909375,"end":6833.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6834.372218750001,"end":6837.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6837.932843750001,"end":6840.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6841.155968749999,"end":6842.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6842.48909375,"end":6843.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6843.40034375,"end":6845.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6845.475968750001,"end":6850.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6850.33596875,"end":6851.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6851.432843750001,"end":6857.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6857.659718750001,"end":6860.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6860.325968749999,"end":6864.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6863.31284375,"end":6869.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6869.759093750001,"end":6870.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6870.06284375,"end":6874.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6874.33221875,"end":6875.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6875.81721875,"end":6877.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6878.010968750001,"end":6878.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6878.63534375,"end":6879.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6880.00221875,"end":6881.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6881.68971875,"end":6884.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6884.64284375,"end":6887.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6888.4228437500005,"end":6893.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6893.60346875,"end":6897.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6897.80534375,"end":6905.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6904.94346875,"end":6906.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6906.47909375,"end":6913.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6913.83659375,"end":6916.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6917.093468750001,"end":6918.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6919.304093750001,"end":6922.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6922.51034375,"end":6926.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6927.38721875,"end":6930.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6931.065968750001,"end":6931.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6931.97721875,"end":6935.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6932.567843750001,"end":6933.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6935.706593750001,"end":6937.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6937.74846875,"end":6944.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6945.39284375,"end":6948.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6948.2615937499995,"end":6963.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6963.415343750001,"end":6967.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6967.6678437499995,"end":6969.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6969.20346875,"end":6970.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6970.823468750001,"end":6973.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6974.198468750001,"end":6975.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6975.43034375,"end":7015.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6980.54346875,"end":6980.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7010.68221875,"end":7011.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7014.20909375,"end":7015.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7015.60971875,"end":7017.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7018.157843750001,"end":7019.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7019.91284375,"end":7021.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7022.07284375,"end":7027.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7023.135968750001,"end":7025.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7027.28721875,"end":7031.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7032.130343750001,"end":7034.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7034.86409375,"end":7035.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":7035.927218750001,"end":7036.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7036.163468750001,"end":7048.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7048.36409375,"end":7054.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7055.21534375,"end":7057.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7057.37534375,"end":7059.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7059.06284375,"end":7060.632218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7060.3622187500005,"end":7062.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7063.28159375,"end":7066.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7067.02784375,"end":7068.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7068.884093750001,"end":7069.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7070.149718750001,"end":7073.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7073.67659375,"end":7076.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7077.372218750001,"end":7084.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7084.45971875,"end":7088.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7089.43784375,"end":7095.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7095.782843750001,"end":7099.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7100.2040937500005,"end":7102.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7103.005343750001,"end":7105.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7105.14846875,"end":7110.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7111.020968750001,"end":7122.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7122.0740937499995,"end":7124.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7122.29346875,"end":7133.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7124.45346875,"end":7124.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7129.43159375,"end":7129.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7134.325343750001,"end":7135.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7134.7303437499995,"end":7135.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7136.08034375,"end":7136.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7137.5653437500005,"end":7143.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7144.18034375,"end":7145.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7145.192843750001,"end":7146.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7146.67784375,"end":7147.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7147.97721875,"end":7152.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7152.0947187500005,"end":7152.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7153.208468750001,"end":7154.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7154.35596875,"end":7154.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7155.11534375,"end":7158.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7158.96284375,"end":7160.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7161.24096875,"end":7164.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7164.29534375,"end":7166.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7166.995343750001,"end":7173.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7173.30659375,"end":7175.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7175.989718750001,"end":7183.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7183.78596875,"end":7193.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7193.809718750001,"end":7199.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7200.171593750001,"end":7202.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7203.040343750001,"end":7206.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7206.56721875,"end":7207.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7207.950968749999,"end":7214.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7214.73471875,"end":7224.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7224.80909375,"end":7228.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7229.34846875,"end":7230.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7229.382218750001,"end":7232.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7230.968468750001,"end":7231.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7232.16659375,"end":7254.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7239.3553437499995,"end":7239.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7239.38909375,"end":7240.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7254.829718750001,"end":7266.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7266.91221875,"end":7268.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7268.49846875,"end":7268.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7268.54909375,"end":7269.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7269.224093750001,"end":7272.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7277.17221875,"end":7278.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7285.93034375,"end":7287.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7287.66846875,"end":7288.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7293.169718749999,"end":7298.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7299.2615937499995,"end":7306.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7306.65284375,"end":7310.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7311.040343750001,"end":7318.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7319.1572187500005,"end":7337.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7337.21346875,"end":7337.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7337.41596875,"end":7337.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7337.804093750001,"end":7338.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7338.124718750001,"end":7338.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7338.19221875,"end":7342.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7338.546593750001,"end":7341.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7343.0184687500005,"end":7345.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7345.7353437500005,"end":7351.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7351.47284375,"end":7357.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7357.733468750001,"end":7358.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7358.239718750001,"end":7364.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7366.964093750001,"end":7368.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7367.048468750001,"end":7393.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7369.208468750001,"end":7369.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7383.872843749999,"end":7383.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7383.974093750001,"end":7384.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7384.311593750001,"end":7384.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7393.03596875,"end":7393.204718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7393.204718750001,"end":7394.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7393.356593750001,"end":7404.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7404.42659375,"end":7411.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7412.40846875,"end":7420.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7421.08221875,"end":7425.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7425.874718750001,"end":7429.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7429.75596875,"end":7456.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7430.07659375,"end":7430.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7442.64846875,"end":7443.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7454.663468750001,"end":7468.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7468.41659375,"end":7507.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7507.954718750001,"end":7523.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7508.106593750001,"end":7508.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7517.82659375,"end":7518.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7519.7840937500005,"end":7550.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7550.96909375,"end":7556.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7551.52596875,"end":7552.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7556.099093750001,"end":7556.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7556.77409375,"end":7563.608468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7556.92596875,"end":7560.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7561.43159375,"end":7567.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7566.10596875,"end":7578.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7579.2684687500005,"end":7586.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7586.69346875,"end":7590.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7590.372218750001,"end":7601.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7601.796593750001,"end":7607.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7607.905343750001,"end":7618.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7618.907843750001,"end":7621.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7620.52784375,"end":7622.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7622.55284375,"end":7624.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":7622.77221875,"end":7625.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7625.16846875,"end":7629.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7629.11721875,"end":7631.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7630.56846875,"end":7634.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7634.145968750001,"end":7641.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7641.182843750001,"end":7646.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7646.329718750001,"end":7667.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7667.74409375,"end":7694.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":7679.6747187500005,"end":7680.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7695.48659375,"end":7697.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7697.96721875,"end":7698.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7699.6884687500005,"end":7726.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7726.33409375,"end":7739.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7740.07034375,"end":7741.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7741.673468750001,"end":7743.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7743.90096875,"end":7749.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7749.38534375,"end":7750.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7750.954718750001,"end":7753.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7753.70534375,"end":7767.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7767.745343750001,"end":7774.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7774.79909375,"end":7776.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7776.77346875,"end":7779.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7779.8447187500005,"end":7789.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7790.2059687500005,"end":7795.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7797.1415937500005,"end":7799.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7797.42846875,"end":7798.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7799.807843750001,"end":7800.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7801.09034375,"end":7802.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7803.182843750001,"end":7804.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7804.482218749999,"end":7813.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7813.8309687500005,"end":7815.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7815.75471875,"end":7828.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7829.423468750001,"end":7829.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7830.2840937500005,"end":7832.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7833.4228437500005,"end":7835.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7836.038468750001,"end":7836.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7836.7303437499995,"end":7845.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7845.792218750001,"end":7854.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7854.71909375,"end":7860.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7860.86159375,"end":7889.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7890.42659375,"end":7896.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7897.32846875,"end":7900.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7901.22659375,"end":7939.819718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7939.9715937500005,"end":7941.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7942.1990937499995,"end":7943.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7947.39659375,"end":7949.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7949.40471875,"end":7959.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7959.76596875,"end":7969.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7969.823468750001,"end":7974.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7974.48096875,"end":7975.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7974.76784375,"end":7979.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7977.737843750001,"end":7978.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7985.010968750001,"end":7986.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7994.477843750001,"end":7995.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7995.89534375,"end":7997.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8000.9072187500005,"end":8003.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8003.759093750001,"end":8003.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8004.9403437500005,"end":8005.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8005.93596875,"end":8006.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8006.155343750001,"end":8006.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8006.27346875,"end":8006.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8011.52159375,"end":8011.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8012.280968750001,"end":8017.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8017.680968750001,"end":8021.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8021.055968750001,"end":8021.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8021.3934687500005,"end":8029.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8029.66221875,"end":8034.404093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8035.28159375,"end":8036.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8037.644093750001,"end":8039.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8040.225968750001,"end":8045.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8045.64284375,"end":8047.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8047.6678437499995,"end":8048.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8049.20346875,"end":8049.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8050.165343750001,"end":8051.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8052.038468750001,"end":8053.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8053.97909375,"end":8054.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8054.384093750001,"end":8055.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8055.02534375,"end":8055.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8056.628468750001,"end":8072.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8073.25034375,"end":8073.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8073.317843750001,"end":8073.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8073.452843750001,"end":8073.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8073.4697187500005,"end":8073.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8073.53721875,"end":8075.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8075.73096875,"end":8076.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8076.6590937500005,"end":8081.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8081.755343750001,"end":8081.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8081.77221875,"end":8082.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8082.092843750001,"end":8084.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8084.97846875,"end":8086.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8086.581593750001,"end":8088.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8088.640343750001,"end":8089.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8090.091593750001,"end":8092.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8094.20909375,"end":8095.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8095.7615937499995,"end":8104.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8104.73909375,"end":8130.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8105.26221875,"end":8105.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8122.4072187500005,"end":8122.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8131.435343750001,"end":8136.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8135.8397187499995,"end":8155.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8155.83659375,"end":8164.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8164.47659375,"end":8166.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8166.75471875,"end":8167.497218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8168.239718750001,"end":8168.560343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8168.77971875,"end":8171.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8168.83034375,"end":8169.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8171.5809687500005,"end":8175.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8175.39471875,"end":8180.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8181.30096875,"end":8188.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8188.860968750001,"end":8191.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8192.219093750002,"end":8202.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8202.546593750001,"end":8206.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8206.05659375,"end":8206.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8206.242218750001,"end":8206.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8206.815968750001,"end":8206.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8206.91721875,"end":8206.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8207.27159375,"end":8209.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8209.87034375,"end":8211.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8210.81534375,"end":8215.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8215.91159375,"end":8218.071593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8218.29096875,"end":8240.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8241.86534375,"end":8257.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8249.47596875,"end":8249.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8258.16659375,"end":8265.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8264.74784375,"end":8272.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8269.152218750001,"end":8270.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8279.175968750002,"end":8280.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8280.10409375,"end":8310.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8290.836593750002,"end":8291.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8310.63096875,"end":8319.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8319.625343750002,"end":8327.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8327.337218750003,"end":8334.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8334.88034375,"end":8349.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8349.359093750001,"end":8350.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8350.995968750001,"end":8351.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8351.65409375,"end":8413.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8414.09159375,"end":8417.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8417.93909375,"end":8428.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8428.82346875,"end":8430.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8428.992218750001,"end":8429.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8430.12284375,"end":8435.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8435.961593750002,"end":8450.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8450.879093750002,"end":8462.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8462.421593750001,"end":8467.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8466.387218750002,"end":8473.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8473.12034375,"end":8473.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8483.835968750001,"end":8485.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8493.977843750003,"end":8496.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8500.99784375,"end":8501.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8502.297218750002,"end":8502.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":8503.15784375,"end":8503.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8503.714718750001,"end":8517.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8517.434093750002,"end":8524.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8524.63971875,"end":8528.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8529.094718750002,"end":8532.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8532.33471875,"end":8533.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8534.140343750001,"end":8536.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8537.110343750002,"end":8539.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8539.43909375,"end":8541.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8541.24471875,"end":8544.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8544.585968750001,"end":8550.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8550.981593750003,"end":8554.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8555.09909375,"end":8558.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8558.49096875,"end":8559.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8560.718468750001,"end":8561.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8562.422843750002,"end":8566.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8567.384093750003,"end":8570.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8571.36659375,"end":8581.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8582.554718750001,"end":8585.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8585.79471875,"end":8588.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8589.59159375,"end":8591.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8592.156593750002,"end":8595.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8595.734093750001,"end":8599.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8600.003468750001,"end":8600.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8601.218468750001,"end":8603.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8604.188468750002,"end":8611.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8611.86659375,"end":8614.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8614.887218750002,"end":8624.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8625.180968750003,"end":8626.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8626.379093750002,"end":8629.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8629.754093750002,"end":8661.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8662.356593750003,"end":8667.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":8668.12784375,"end":8669.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8670.65909375,"end":8674.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8674.945343750001,"end":8675.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8676.227843750003,"end":8707.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8707.952843750001,"end":8716.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8716.440968750001,"end":8732.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8733.41721875,"end":8737.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8737.129718750002,"end":8743.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8744.250968750002,"end":8748.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8748.75659375,"end":8749.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8749.937843750002,"end":8756.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8756.92409375,"end":8759.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8759.87721875,"end":8761.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8763.25221875,"end":8764.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8765.53034375,"end":8779.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8780.312843750002,"end":8786.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8787.062843750002,"end":8794.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8794.72409375,"end":8807.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8808.71346875,"end":8811.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8811.97034375,"end":8820.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8821.184093750002,"end":8829.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8830.49909375,"end":8830.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8830.515968750002,"end":8830.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8830.58346875,"end":8855.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8830.667843750001,"end":8831.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8831.410343750002,"end":8831.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8850.83346875,"end":8851.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8856.368468750003,"end":8866.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8867.23596875,"end":8876.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8867.25284375,"end":8867.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8867.691593750002,"end":8867.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8867.97846875,"end":8869.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8876.78721875,"end":8881.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8880.70221875,"end":8891.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8890.894718750002,"end":8891.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8891.02971875,"end":8891.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8891.97471875,"end":8892.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8892.02534375,"end":8893.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8893.274093750002,"end":8893.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8893.29096875,"end":8893.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8893.645343750002,"end":8916.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8912.32596875,"end":8913.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8915.363468750002,"end":8916.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8916.679718750001,"end":8917.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8917.87784375,"end":8919.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8920.324718750002,"end":8921.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8921.35409375,"end":8929.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8929.15034375,"end":8929.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8929.53846875,"end":8931.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8931.69846875,"end":8931.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8931.985343750002,"end":8932.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8932.035968750002,"end":8934.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8935.090343750002,"end":8952.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8949.012218750002,"end":8949.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8952.03284375,"end":8952.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8952.82596875,"end":8953.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8953.973468750002,"end":8961.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8960.48721875,"end":8961.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8961.297218750002,"end":8961.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8961.43221875,"end":8971.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8963.187218750001,"end":8963.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8964.098468750002,"end":8964.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8968.50284375,"end":8969.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8971.03409375,"end":8977.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8977.83471875,"end":9005.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9006.269093750001,"end":9011.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9011.871593750002,"end":9021.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9022.097843750002,"end":9048.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9048.33846875,"end":9057.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9058.21034375,"end":9061.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9060.50534375,"end":9067.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9065.63534375,"end":9069.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9068.89221875,"end":9069.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9070.42784375,"end":9072.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9076.95846875,"end":9078.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9081.19409375,"end":9085.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9088.14659375,"end":9092.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9092.972843750002,"end":9094.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9095.149718750003,"end":9096.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9096.80346875,"end":9097.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9103.300343750001,"end":9104.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9104.532218750002,"end":9106.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9106.75971875,"end":9109.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9109.999718750001,"end":9133.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9133.422218750002,"end":9134.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9135.34596875,"end":9135.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9135.91971875,"end":9140.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9140.45909375,"end":9141.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9141.57284375,"end":9143.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9144.15471875,"end":9149.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9149.605343750001,"end":9150.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9150.60096875,"end":9152.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9153.13221875,"end":9156.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9156.33846875,"end":9156.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9156.574718750002,"end":9157.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9157.97534375,"end":9168.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9168.84284375,"end":9169.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9169.73721875,"end":9185.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9185.97096875,"end":9186.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9186.696593750003,"end":9189.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":9189.71721875,"end":9208.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9200.129093750002,"end":9201.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9202.305968750003,"end":9202.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9208.988468750002,"end":9225.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9226.16721875,"end":9229.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9230.284718750001,"end":9231.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9238.50284375,"end":9239.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9240.02159375,"end":9240.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9241.320968750002,"end":9248.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9249.134093750003,"end":9259.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9259.680968750003,"end":9262.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9263.055968750003,"end":9265.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9265.13159375,"end":9267.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9267.629093750002,"end":9275.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9275.644718750002,"end":9285.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9285.516593750002,"end":9291.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9291.96284375,"end":9310.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9300.97409375,"end":9301.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9310.67721875,"end":9314.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9311.33534375,"end":9311.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9312.921593750001,"end":9313.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9314.946593750003,"end":9320.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9315.01409375,"end":9315.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9320.12721875,"end":9333.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9324.71721875,"end":9325.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9325.98284375,"end":9327.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9334.09971875,"end":9335.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9335.770343750002,"end":9336.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9336.83346875,"end":9337.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9338.16659375,"end":9339.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9341.01846875,"end":9341.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9341.187218750001,"end":9341.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9341.22096875,"end":9341.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9341.69346875,"end":9342.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9346.85721875,"end":9348.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9348.949718750002,"end":9353.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9353.961593750002,"end":9366.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9366.820343750001,"end":9370.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9370.212218750003,"end":9377.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9377.417843750001,"end":9379.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9380.387843750003,"end":9383.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9384.72471875,"end":9405.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9406.071593750003,"end":9406.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9407.168468750002,"end":9407.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9408.56909375,"end":9411.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9411.03284375,"end":9411.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9411.167843750001,"end":9411.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9411.25221875,"end":9411.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9412.332218750002,"end":9415.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9415.84221875,"end":9421.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9421.63034375,"end":9446.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9429.07221875,"end":9429.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9446.89221875,"end":9466.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9465.03284375,"end":9466.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9466.93971875,"end":9467.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9467.05784375,"end":9479.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9477.925343750001,"end":9493.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9483.730343750001,"end":9485.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9493.78784375,"end":9494.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9493.922843750002,"end":9505.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9498.85034375,"end":9498.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9500.554718750001,"end":9500.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9505.97159375,"end":9516.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9516.636593750001,"end":9516.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9516.754718750002,"end":9516.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9516.87284375,"end":9525.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9517.075343750003,"end":9517.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9518.796593750001,"end":9519.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9525.63096875,"end":9532.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9530.49096875,"end":9543.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9536.71784375,"end":9537.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9539.367218750001,"end":9540.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9541.40909375,"end":9544.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9545.18909375,"end":9546.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9552.90096875,"end":9553.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9553.609718750002,"end":9555.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9562.01346875,"end":9563.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9564.949718750002,"end":9566.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9566.67096875,"end":9567.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9570.94034375,"end":9576.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9571.277843750002,"end":9572.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9576.03659375,"end":9582.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9577.656593750002,"end":9603.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9594.160343750002,"end":9594.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9603.610343750002,"end":9605.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9603.72846875,"end":9610.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9610.63034375,"end":9614.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9614.66346875,"end":9620.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9620.62034375,"end":9621.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9620.87346875,"end":9621.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9622.105343750001,"end":9624.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9624.67034375,"end":9624.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9624.687218750001,"end":9625.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9625.969718750002,"end":9625.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9625.98659375,"end":9626.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9626.003468750001,"end":9626.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9626.03721875,"end":9634.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9626.864093750002,"end":9627.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9634.778468750003,"end":9635.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9634.79534375,"end":9639.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9638.406593750002,"end":9653.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9653.08784375,"end":9659.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9659.73659375,"end":9666.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9659.85471875,"end":9659.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9660.124718750001,"end":9661.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9666.081593750001,"end":9667.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9667.85346875,"end":9669.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9669.945968750002,"end":9670.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9671.49846875,"end":9687.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9678.72096875,"end":9679.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9687.563468750002,"end":9695.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9691.59659375,"end":9693.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9695.140343750001,"end":9712.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9695.81534375,"end":9695.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9704.792843750001,"end":9705.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9712.36971875,"end":9714.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9715.086593750002,"end":9728.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9729.14346875,"end":9731.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9732.36659375,"end":9733.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9734.391593750002,"end":9736.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9737.20971875,"end":9742.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9742.96409375,"end":9769.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9767.43284375,"end":9768.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9769.17096875,"end":9773.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9774.06471875,"end":9774.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9776.00534375,"end":9783.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9781.50659375,"end":9795.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9784.71284375,"end":9785.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9785.94471875,"end":9786.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9787.83471875,"end":9788.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9788.324093750001,"end":9788.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9792.05346875,"end":9792.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9794.702843750001,"end":9795.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9795.05721875,"end":9795.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9795.512843750003,"end":9795.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9795.664718750002,"end":9800.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9801.73971875,"end":9802.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9803.106593750003,"end":9807.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9808.35471875,"end":9810.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9810.750968750002,"end":9810.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9810.801593750002,"end":9811.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9810.91971875,"end":9828.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9813.82221875,"end":9814.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9823.17096875,"end":9823.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9824.11596875,"end":9824.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9827.237843750001,"end":9828.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9828.16596875,"end":9838.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9833.414093750001,"end":9833.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9833.44784375,"end":9833.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":9833.61659375,"end":9833.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9838.999718750001,"end":9839.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9839.03346875,"end":9839.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9839.067218750002,"end":9840.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9839.219093750002,"end":9840.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9846.120968750001,"end":9847.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10272.51846875,"end":10273.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10276.821593750003,"end":10278.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10287.73971875,"end":10288.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10289.055968750003,"end":10291.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10291.65471875,"end":10292.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10297.223468750002,"end":10319.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10319.515343750001,"end":10329.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10329.977843750003,"end":10339.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10339.259093750003,"end":10349.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10348.03409375,"end":10349.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10349.114093750002,"end":10364.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10349.519093750001,"end":10349.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10352.539718750002,"end":10355.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10364.031593750002,"end":10373.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10365.246593750002,"end":10365.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10368.43596875,"end":10369.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10370.039093750001,"end":10371.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10372.317218750002,"end":10377.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10376.33346875,"end":10380.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10381.73346875,"end":10382.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10385.445968750002,"end":10406.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10406.97846875,"end":10427.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10427.414093750001,"end":10446.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10445.504093750002,"end":10445.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10446.027218750001,"end":10476.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10476.098468750002,"end":10489.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10489.14284375,"end":10505.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10504.87034375,"end":10512.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10508.464718750001,"end":10508.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10510.489718750003,"end":10522.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10520.192843750003,"end":10527.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10526.63909375,"end":10531.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10531.02659375,"end":10533.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10534.199093750001,"end":10539.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10539.97034375,"end":10549.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10550.145968750003,"end":10563.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10563.03846875,"end":10574.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10564.844093750002,"end":10565.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10573.68659375,"end":10574.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10574.10846875,"end":10579.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10577.753468750001,"end":10578.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10579.96409375,"end":10586.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10585.80284375,"end":10588.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10588.80659375,"end":10588.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10588.92471875,"end":10590.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10590.29159375,"end":10653.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10590.44346875,"end":10590.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10652.796593750001,"end":10663.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10656.35721875,"end":10656.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10661.453468750002,"end":10709.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10710.52596875,"end":10716.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10715.554718750001,"end":10718.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10717.44471875,"end":10717.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10718.204093750002,"end":10718.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10718.237843750001,"end":10731.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10723.890968750002,"end":10723.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10723.90784375,"end":10724.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10724.02596875,"end":10724.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10730.94471875,"end":10734.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10732.93596875,"end":10741.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10737.25596875,"end":10737.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10739.972843750002,"end":10740.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10741.035968750002,"end":10769.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10747.043468750002,"end":10747.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10748.54534375,"end":10749.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10769.75721875,"end":10782.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10778.61659375,"end":10778.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10782.227843750003,"end":10782.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10782.41346875,"end":10791.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10791.644093750001,"end":10791.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":10791.67784375,"end":10791.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10791.711593750002,"end":10794.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10794.715343750002,"end":10818.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10819.504718750002,"end":10820.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10824.26346875,"end":10824.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10824.28034375,"end":10829.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10829.66346875,"end":10830.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10837.24034375,"end":10838.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10838.77596875,"end":10839.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10841.30721875,"end":10842.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10843.804718750001,"end":10849.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10850.04846875,"end":10853.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10851.465968750003,"end":10852.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10854.23346875,"end":10854.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10854.95909375,"end":10857.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":10858.047218750002,"end":10861.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10859.363468750002,"end":10859.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10859.66721875,"end":10859.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10859.903468750003,"end":10859.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10859.937218750001,"end":10860.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10860.03846875,"end":10865.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10861.28721875,"end":10861.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10865.337218750003,"end":10882.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10882.161593750003,"end":10884.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10884.372218750003,"end":10892.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10884.38909375,"end":10884.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10892.94471875,"end":10893.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10893.02909375,"end":10893.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10893.062843750002,"end":10894.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10893.164093750001,"end":10895.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10895.30721875,"end":10903.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10895.442218750002,"end":10896.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10898.85096875,"end":10899.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10899.559718750003,"end":10899.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10903.84596875,"end":10904.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10905.21284375,"end":10906.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10906.12409375,"end":10914.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":10915.118468750003,"end":10924.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10924.04534375,"end":10929.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10929.985343750002,"end":10933.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10933.86659375,"end":10935.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10935.824093750001,"end":10939.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10939.82346875,"end":10941.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10941.679718750001,"end":10945.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10945.88159375,"end":10946.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10947.653468750003,"end":10951.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10952.024093750002,"end":10953.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10955.179718750001,"end":10959.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10960.27596875,"end":10961.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10961.64284375,"end":10965.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10966.047218750002,"end":10967.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10968.899093750002,"end":10973.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10972.274093750002,"end":10972.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10973.691593750002,"end":10975.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10975.227218750002,"end":10976.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10976.20596875,"end":10979.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10980.340343750002,"end":10981.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10981.42034375,"end":10983.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10984.42409375,"end":10988.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10989.70596875,"end":10992.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10993.08096875,"end":10993.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10994.312843750002,"end":10995.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10996.219718750002,"end":10997.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10997.687843750002,"end":10998.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10999.29096875,"end":11001.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11002.429718750001,"end":11006.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11007.509093750003,"end":11008.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11009.179718750001,"end":11012.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11012.84159375,"end":11015.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11015.74409375,"end":11017.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11018.22471875,"end":11024.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11018.54534375,"end":11018.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11025.29534375,"end":11028.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11029.547843750002,"end":11039.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11040.22971875,"end":11045.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11046.000968750002,"end":11057.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11052.902843750002,"end":11053.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11053.18971875,"end":11053.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11057.88096875,"end":11058.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11058.134093750003,"end":11058.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11059.29846875,"end":11061.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11061.79596875,"end":11062.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11064.192218750002,"end":11065.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11065.559093750002,"end":11070.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11071.00971875,"end":11072.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11073.64221875,"end":11073.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11073.65909375,"end":11078.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11073.726593750001,"end":11074.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11077.65846875,"end":11087.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11079.750968750002,"end":11079.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11086.484093750001,"end":11086.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11086.973468750002,"end":11087.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11087.78346875,"end":11089.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11089.909718750001,"end":11090.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11091.78284375,"end":11095.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11095.613468750002,"end":11108.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11109.130343750003,"end":11111.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11111.442218750002,"end":11114.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11115.67784375,"end":11115.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11115.69471875,"end":11117.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11116.53846875,"end":11118.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11118.023468750001,"end":11118.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11118.934718750003,"end":11119.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11119.035968750002,"end":11126.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11126.511593750001,"end":11136.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11136.09659375,"end":11137.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11137.750343750002,"end":11138.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11138.796593750001,"end":11140.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11141.665343750003,"end":11142.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11144.449718750002,"end":11145.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11145.394718750002,"end":11145.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11146.42409375,"end":11146.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11147.554718750001,"end":11148.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11149.191593750002,"end":11152.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11152.296593750001,"end":11155.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11152.347218750001,"end":11152.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11154.55784375,"end":11155.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11155.570343750001,"end":11155.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11157.224093750003,"end":11167.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11167.66971875,"end":11175.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11175.85409375,"end":11178.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11178.58784375,"end":11181.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11182.13159375,"end":11182.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11182.688468750002,"end":11183.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11184.375968750002,"end":11185.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11186.333468750003,"end":11187.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11187.61596875,"end":11192.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11194.079093750002,"end":11195.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11196.711593750002,"end":11198.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11198.719718750002,"end":11199.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11199.25971875,"end":11204.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11205.520343750002,"end":11206.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11206.53284375,"end":11208.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11208.034718750001,"end":11209.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11210.24534375,"end":11214.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11214.430343750002,"end":11219.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11219.070968750002,"end":11219.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11220.758468750002,"end":11220.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11220.79221875,"end":11228.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11228.571593750003,"end":11233.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11230.79909375,"end":11231.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11232.874718750001,"end":11235.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11235.844718750002,"end":11240.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11241.09284375,"end":11251.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11249.766593750002,"end":11261.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11261.32596875,"end":11261.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11261.74784375,"end":11264.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11264.32971875,"end":11264.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11264.66721875,"end":11264.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11264.684093750002,"end":11264.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11264.70096875,"end":11265.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11265.24096875,"end":11267.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11267.890343750001,"end":11270.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11270.15159375,"end":11275.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11275.821593750003,"end":11279.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11279.331593750001,"end":11282.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11282.993468750003,"end":11286.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11287.22909375,"end":11289.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11290.418468750002,"end":11293.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11293.962218750003,"end":11297.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11297.82659375,"end":11299.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11299.446593750003,"end":11299.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11299.83471875,"end":11304.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11304.57659375,"end":11305.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11305.15034375,"end":11319.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11306.36534375,"end":11307.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11320.574093750001,"end":11324.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11325.36659375,"end":11329.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11334.462218750003,"end":11334.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11337.668468750002,"end":11338.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11338.039718750002,"end":11339.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11338.07346875,"end":11338.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11339.879093750002,"end":11341.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11342.140343750001,"end":11343.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11343.16971875,"end":11344.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11345.515343750001,"end":11346.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11347.574093750001,"end":11350.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11351.117843750002,"end":11353.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11353.227218750002,"end":11355.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11356.14659375,"end":11367.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11367.452843750001,"end":11371.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11371.48596875,"end":11376.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11376.61596875,"end":11378.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11378.97846875,"end":11382.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11382.977843750003,"end":11385.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11386.656593750002,"end":11388.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11388.58034375,"end":11395.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11395.515968750002,"end":11396.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11396.612843750001,"end":11397.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11397.50721875,"end":11398.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11399.835968750001,"end":11399.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11399.852843750003,"end":11399.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11399.987843750001,"end":11400.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11400.03846875,"end":11400.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11400.66284375,"end":11406.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11407.497218750003,"end":11411.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11411.614718750003,"end":11411.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11411.63159375,"end":11413.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11413.757843750001,"end":11413.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11413.79159375,"end":11413.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11413.808468750001,"end":11413.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11413.859093750001,"end":11413.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11413.909718750001,"end":11414.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11414.04471875,"end":11416.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11414.80409375,"end":11415.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11415.833468750003,"end":11419.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11419.765343750001,"end":11420.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11422.262843750003,"end":11428.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11427.39284375,"end":11430.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11428.72596875,"end":11431.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11431.172843750002,"end":11435.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11435.712218750003,"end":11435.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11435.847218750001,"end":11435.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11435.94846875,"end":11441.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11436.84284375,"end":11437.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11439.57659375,"end":11470.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11447.37284375,"end":11447.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11470.035968750002,"end":11470.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11470.137218750002,"end":11475.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11470.27221875,"end":11470.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11474.727218750002,"end":11498.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11477.59596875,"end":11477.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11481.98346875,"end":11482.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11482.067843750003,"end":11482.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11482.101593750001,"end":11482.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11482.169093750003,"end":11482.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11488.46346875,"end":11488.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11496.917843750001,"end":11497.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11497.91346875,"end":11506.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11501.474093750003,"end":11501.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11506.33409375,"end":11507.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11506.418468750002,"end":11510.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11508.645968750003,"end":11514.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11514.56909375,"end":11514.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11514.78846875,"end":11514.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11514.82221875,"end":11514.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11514.83909375,"end":11519.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11519.51346875,"end":11521.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11520.99846875,"end":11521.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11521.015343750001,"end":11521.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11521.859093750001,"end":11549.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11550.040343750003,"end":11551.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11551.609718750002,"end":11556.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11556.250343750002,"end":11556.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11556.840968750003,"end":11571.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11557.07721875,"end":11557.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11568.45096875,"end":11569.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11569.78409375,"end":11571.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11572.04534375,"end":11578.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11574.019718750002,"end":11574.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11576.90534375,"end":11580.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11578.829093750002,"end":11583.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11584.364093750002,"end":11586.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11586.54096875,"end":11590.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11590.219718750002,"end":11619.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11619.29534375,"end":11626.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11621.117843750002,"end":11621.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11622.957218750002,"end":11623.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11626.922843750002,"end":11633.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11634.465968750003,"end":11634.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11634.887843750003,"end":11645.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11645.046593750001,"end":11649.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11649.855968750002,"end":11650.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11650.058468750001,"end":11650.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11650.78409375,"end":11650.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11650.851593750001,"end":11657.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11650.88534375,"end":11652.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11657.11221875,"end":11664.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11661.16221875,"end":11661.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11663.727218750002,"end":11671.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11669.903468750003,"end":11675.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11671.641593750002,"end":11672.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11674.24034375,"end":11696.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11697.03846875,"end":11700.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11700.599093750003,"end":11701.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11702.13471875,"end":11702.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11702.961593750002,"end":11704.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11704.547843750002,"end":11707.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11707.51784375,"end":11709.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11709.981593750003,"end":11715.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11715.60096875,"end":11718.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11718.58784375,"end":11719.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11719.85346875,"end":11721.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11722.148468750001,"end":11739.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11740.17096875,"end":11746.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11747.629718750002,"end":11748.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11748.692843750003,"end":11760.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11760.640343750001,"end":11770.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11771.28846875,"end":11772.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11773.44846875,"end":11777.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11778.409718750001,"end":11780.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11780.70471875,"end":11781.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11782.18971875,"end":11784.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11784.99096875,"end":11786.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11786.594093750002,"end":11789.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11790.00284375,"end":11791.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11792.04471875,"end":11794.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11794.49159375,"end":11797.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11798.27159375,"end":11800.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11801.07284375,"end":11801.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11801.950343750003,"end":11803.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11803.65471875,"end":11807.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11808.41346875,"end":11815.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11816.05784375,"end":11817.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11817.812843750002,"end":11819.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11819.80409375,"end":11820.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11821.137218750002,"end":11821.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11822.284718750001,"end":11823.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11823.43221875,"end":11824.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11825.474093750003,"end":11826.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11828.190968750001,"end":11828.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11830.48596875,"end":11830.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11830.97534375,"end":11831.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11831.262218750002,"end":11832.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11840.45909375,"end":11844.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11845.47096875,"end":11847.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11852.035343750002,"end":11852.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11852.76096875,"end":11852.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11852.81159375,"end":11852.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11852.997218750003,"end":11861.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11862.227843750003,"end":11862.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11863.03784375,"end":11863.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11863.054718750001,"end":11864.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11864.40471875,"end":11866.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11867.172218750002,"end":11868.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11868.89346875,"end":11869.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11871.84659375,"end":11872.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11872.69034375,"end":11884.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11884.48596875,"end":11901.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11891.387843750003,"end":11891.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11902.27221875,"end":11906.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11906.558468750001,"end":11909.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11909.950343750003,"end":11910.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":11910.321593750003,"end":11936.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11936.882843750001,"end":11941.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11942.18159375,"end":11956.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11956.930343750002,"end":11963.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11963.91659375,"end":11964.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11965.80659375,"end":11980.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11981.11221875,"end":11981.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11982.78284375,"end":11983.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11983.812218750001,"end":11984.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11984.824718750002,"end":11985.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11985.786593750003,"end":11987.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11988.469718750002,"end":11988.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11988.95909375,"end":11992.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11992.249718750001,"end":11999.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12000.535343750002,"end":12000.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12001.497218750003,"end":12039.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12039.297218750002,"end":12040.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12040.815968750001,"end":12040.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12041.11971875,"end":12041.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12042.63846875,"end":12043.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12043.887218750002,"end":12046.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12047.059718750003,"end":12071.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12050.02971875,"end":12050.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12072.524093750002,"end":12080.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12080.421593750001,"end":12092.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12093.01034375,"end":12094.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12095.86221875,"end":12096.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12096.402218750001,"end":12104.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12105.83534375,"end":12110.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12111.45471875,"end":12123.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12124.364093750002,"end":12144.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12133.03784375,"end":12133.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12134.35409375,"end":12134.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12134.370968750001,"end":12134.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12134.82659375,"end":12134.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12134.860343750002,"end":12134.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12145.137218750002,"end":12174.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12174.820343750001,"end":12183.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12184.01721875,"end":12184.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12184.050968750002,"end":12188.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12188.67471875,"end":12192.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12192.89346875,"end":12194.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12194.766593750002,"end":12209.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12209.835968750001,"end":12215.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12216.24846875,"end":12221.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12221.63159375,"end":12223.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12223.57221875,"end":12228.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12229.12409375,"end":12232.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12232.80284375,"end":12245.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12245.745968750001,"end":12246.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12252.175343750001,"end":12253.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12259.785968750002,"end":12262.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12263.02596875,"end":12263.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12269.77596875,"end":12270.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12270.636593750001,"end":12271.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12271.547843750002,"end":12272.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12272.72909375,"end":12275.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12275.85096875,"end":12283.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12283.562843750002,"end":12286.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12286.583468750003,"end":12309.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12309.43221875,"end":12320.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12321.07596875,"end":12325.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12324.737843750001,"end":12333.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12333.36096875,"end":12337.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12337.12409375,"end":12339.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12340.33034375,"end":12374.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12374.586593750002,"end":12378.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12379.024718750003,"end":12396.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12393.48659375,"end":12393.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12396.844718750002,"end":12413.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12413.989718750003,"end":12415.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12416.04846875,"end":12422.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12423.23721875,"end":12433.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12433.969718750002,"end":12443.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12443.80784375,"end":12454.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12454.40534375,"end":12454.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12455.012843750003,"end":12455.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12455.02971875,"end":12464.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12462.87659375,"end":12466.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12465.660968750002,"end":12482.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12482.164718750002,"end":12482.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12482.19846875,"end":12499.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12482.687843750002,"end":12482.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12482.805968750003,"end":12482.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12482.839718750001,"end":12482.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12482.856593750003,"end":12482.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12482.907218750002,"end":12483.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12483.362843750001,"end":12484.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12484.03784375,"end":12484.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12489.77534375,"end":12491.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12497.520968750003,"end":12498.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12498.870968750001,"end":12501.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12502.38096875,"end":12511.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12511.78034375,"end":12513.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12513.906593750002,"end":12517.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12517.09596875,"end":12517.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12517.281593750002,"end":12518.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12518.41221875,"end":12526.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12526.47846875,"end":12527.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12527.54159375,"end":12527.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12527.69346875,"end":12539.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12530.24159375,"end":12531.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12539.23596875,"end":12568.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12553.02284375,"end":12553.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12568.429718750001,"end":12570.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12570.45471875,"end":12579.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12577.79534375,"end":12594.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12585.000968750002,"end":12586.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12586.047218750002,"end":12586.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12593.25284375,"end":12594.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12594.653468750003,"end":12595.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12595.98659375,"end":12607.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12607.57971875,"end":12607.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12608.49096875,"end":12609.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12608.524718750003,"end":12610.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12611.37659375,"end":12618.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12614.54909375,"end":12615.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12617.55284375,"end":12620.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12619.39221875,"end":12620.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12620.910968750002,"end":12621.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12621.805343750002,"end":12622.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12621.83909375,"end":12623.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12624.67409375,"end":12625.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12624.707843750002,"end":12628.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12626.68221875,"end":12635.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12635.457218750002,"end":12637.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12637.212218750003,"end":12639.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12638.49471875,"end":12639.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12639.524093750002,"end":12640.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12641.042843750001,"end":12641.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12641.39721875,"end":12641.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12641.414093750001,"end":12643.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12643.540343750003,"end":12644.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12644.755343750003,"end":12652.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12652.349093750003,"end":12655.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12652.66971875,"end":12652.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12654.914093750001,"end":12655.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12655.656593750002,"end":12656.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12657.968468750001,"end":12667.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12668.144093750001,"end":12670.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12670.72596875,"end":12672.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12672.44721875,"end":12674.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12674.20221875,"end":12679.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12679.72034375,"end":12681.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12682.335968750001,"end":12682.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12683.01096875,"end":12687.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12685.508468750002,"end":12688.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12688.815968750001,"end":12690.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12690.26721875,"end":12693.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12691.02659375,"end":12695.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12693.895343750002,"end":12699.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12696.66284375,"end":12700.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12701.370968750001,"end":12711.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12709.015343750001,"end":12725.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12711.79971875,"end":12711.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12723.578468750002,"end":12723.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12723.595343750003,"end":12731.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12730.649093750002,"end":12734.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12734.445968750002,"end":12734.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12734.496593750002,"end":12734.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12734.53034375,"end":12734.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12734.614718750003,"end":12736.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12734.63159375,"end":12738.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12737.567843750003,"end":12741.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12740.84159375,"end":12743.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12742.360343750002,"end":12760.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12761.20971875,"end":12769.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12768.63471875,"end":12772.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12772.02659375,"end":12775.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12774.49034375,"end":12777.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12777.578468750002,"end":12780.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12780.379718750002,"end":12785.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12786.336593750002,"end":12790.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12787.754093750002,"end":12789.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12789.981593750003,"end":12806.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12805.77659375,"end":12809.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12809.97846875,"end":12812.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12811.04159375,"end":12815.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12814.872218750003,"end":12820.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12818.331593750001,"end":12822.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":12822.48284375,"end":12827.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12822.870968750001,"end":12823.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12824.28846875,"end":12836.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12835.206593750001,"end":12836.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12836.860343750002,"end":12843.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12843.829718750003,"end":12853.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12854.579093750002,"end":12862.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12859.911593750003,"end":12866.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12866.594093750002,"end":12868.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12866.965343750002,"end":12885.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12874.52534375,"end":12875.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12885.595343750003,"end":12895.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12896.42909375,"end":12896.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12897.019718750002,"end":12897.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12899.06159375,"end":12899.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12899.078468750002,"end":12899.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12900.563468750002,"end":12906.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12906.97596875,"end":12913.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12907.00971875,"end":12907.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12911.29596875,"end":12912.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12916.206593750001,"end":12931.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12918.77159375,"end":12920.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12924.340343750002,"end":12926.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12932.38971875,"end":12942.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12940.82721875,"end":12942.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12942.44721875,"end":12942.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12942.734093750001,"end":12958.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12942.953468750002,"end":12945.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12956.655968750001,"end":12962.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12961.583468750003,"end":12964.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12966.03846875,"end":12966.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12966.578468750002,"end":12966.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12969.970343750003,"end":12970.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12970.76346875,"end":12973.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12985.140968750002,"end":12986.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12986.575343750003,"end":12987.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12994.152218750001,"end":12994.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12995.333468750003,"end":13010.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13013.558468750001,"end":13016.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13017.051593750002,"end":13019.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13020.595343750003,"end":13025.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13025.13471875,"end":13028.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13028.492843750002,"end":13030.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13028.594093750002,"end":13029.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13029.657218750002,"end":13031.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13031.243468750003,"end":13032.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13032.492218750001,"end":13033.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13033.31909375,"end":13038.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13039.02284375,"end":13040.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13040.81159375,"end":13045.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13045.85721875,"end":13047.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13047.527843750002,"end":13047.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13048.489718750003,"end":13058.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13058.90159375,"end":13060.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13061.196593750003,"end":13068.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13070.12346875,"end":13072.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13075.50659375,"end":13082.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13080.99096875,"end":13082.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13083.10034375,"end":13083.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13084.24784375,"end":13089.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13090.862843750001,"end":13095.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13096.07721875,"end":13097.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13097.86596875,"end":13115.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13116.512843750003,"end":13138.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13138.079093750002,"end":13138.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13138.821593750003,"end":13144.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13145.942843750003,"end":13149.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13149.23346875,"end":13158.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13154.481593750003,"end":13155.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13158.34596875,"end":13165.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13161.45096875,"end":13162.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13162.767218750003,"end":13164.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13165.433468750001,"end":13169.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13170.614093750002,"end":13209.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13209.29159375,"end":13214.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13212.83534375,"end":13213.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13214.860343750002,"end":13220.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13220.867843750002,"end":13221.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13222.032218750002,"end":13224.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13222.977218750002,"end":13229.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13229.254718750002,"end":13238.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13239.19409375,"end":13242.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13242.805343750002,"end":13253.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13254.17909375,"end":13257.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13258.75221875,"end":13260.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13260.422843750002,"end":13262.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13261.13159375,"end":13264.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13264.523468750001,"end":13266.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13264.87784375,"end":13265.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13266.261593750001,"end":13266.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13266.683468750001,"end":13270.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13271.94846875,"end":13273.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13272.134093750003,"end":13273.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13274.05784375,"end":13275.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13276.47096875,"end":13287.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13287.405968750001,"end":13299.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13299.640343750001,"end":13300.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13302.15471875,"end":13304.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13302.99846875,"end":13304.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13304.922218750002,"end":13305.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13305.394718750002,"end":13306.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13306.47471875,"end":13312.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13314.01784375,"end":13321.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13322.62409375,"end":13334.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13335.465968750003,"end":13348.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13349.472218750001,"end":13355.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13356.00284375,"end":13361.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":13362.668468750002,"end":13363.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13367.69721875,"end":13368.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13368.777218750001,"end":13370.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13372.33784375,"end":13372.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13377.164093750001,"end":13380.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13381.180343750002,"end":13381.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13387.96409375,"end":13387.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13387.99784375,"end":13388.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13388.43659375,"end":13401.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13402.93221875,"end":13404.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13405.007843750001,"end":13406.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13405.750343750002,"end":13406.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13408.09596875,"end":13409.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13408.78784375,"end":13409.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13409.78346875,"end":13410.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13409.800343750001,"end":13415.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13411.909718750001,"end":13412.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13414.660343750002,"end":13415.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13415.453468750002,"end":13430.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13430.843468750001,"end":13437.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13436.00721875,"end":13447.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13439.196593750003,"end":13439.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13440.293468750002,"end":13440.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13446.317843750003,"end":13449.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13448.29221875,"end":13452.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13452.257843750001,"end":13452.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13452.527843750002,"end":13452.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13452.645968750003,"end":13463.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13458.45096875,"end":13458.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13459.83471875,"end":13459.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13459.851593750001,"end":13460.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13463.73284375,"end":13464.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13465.386593750001,"end":13467.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13467.782843750003,"end":13489.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13489.93971875,"end":13495.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13496.250968750002,"end":13499.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13499.22096875,"end":13501.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13501.70159375,"end":13505.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13505.515343750001,"end":13505.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13505.785343750002,"end":13517.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13505.802218750003,"end":13505.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13516.534718750001,"end":13521.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13521.69846875,"end":13525.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13524.786593750003,"end":13524.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13525.883468750002,"end":13525.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13525.90034375,"end":13536.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13526.59221875,"end":13526.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13533.426593750002,"end":13534.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13536.227843750003,"end":13536.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13536.261593750001,"end":13536.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13536.784718750001,"end":13536.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13536.970343750003,"end":13541.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13541.965343750002,"end":13542.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13542.99471875,"end":13543.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13543.011593750001,"end":13543.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13544.243468750003,"end":13545.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13546.31909375,"end":13546.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13547.550968750002,"end":13559.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13559.97096875,"end":13573.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13573.724093750003,"end":13588.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13575.090968750003,"end":13575.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13582.06034375,"end":13582.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13582.110968750003,"end":13582.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13589.18159375,"end":13597.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13597.754093750002,"end":13603.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13603.96409375,"end":13606.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13606.714718750001,"end":13608.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13608.53721875,"end":13633.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13633.343468750001,"end":13651.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13652.564093750003,"end":13665.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13665.203468750002,"end":13665.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13666.40159375,"end":13668.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13669.38846875,"end":13670.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13670.738468750002,"end":13676.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13678.04534375,"end":13688.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13688.845343750003,"end":13694.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13694.802218750003,"end":13696.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13698.278468750003,"end":13700.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13700.337218750003,"end":13709.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13709.871593750002,"end":13715.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13713.516593750002,"end":13713.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13714.664093750001,"end":13738.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13739.774093750002,"end":13745.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13743.317843750003,"end":13750.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13751.29971875,"end":13751.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13752.329093750002,"end":13753.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13753.442843750003,"end":13757.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13758.184718750003,"end":13765.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13765.356593750003,"end":13767.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13767.499718750001,"end":13771.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13771.296593750001,"end":13777.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13777.45596875,"end":13784.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13785.67409375,"end":13786.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13786.602218750002,"end":13790.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13791.968468750001,"end":13794.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13793.11596875,"end":13801.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13795.832843750002,"end":13796.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13801.148468750001,"end":13826.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13826.849093750003,"end":13845.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13844.73659375,"end":13847.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13846.356593750003,"end":13861.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13859.485343750002,"end":13872.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13868.074718750002,"end":13881.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13872.546593750001,"end":13872.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13872.68159375,"end":13872.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13872.782843750003,"end":13875.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13876.42784375,"end":13877.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13880.460968750001,"end":13888.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13887.09284375,"end":13889.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13890.02909375,"end":13907.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13897.133468750002,"end":13900.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13901.58846875,"end":13902.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13908.50721875,"end":13920.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13920.977843750003,"end":13923.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13923.47534375,"end":13930.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13931.423468750003,"end":13939.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13933.75221875,"end":13942.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13939.489718750003,"end":13939.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":13942.08846875,"end":13942.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13942.527218750001,"end":13945.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13942.864718750003,"end":13949.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13948.079093750002,"end":13953.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13949.53034375,"end":13953.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13953.27659375,"end":13954.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13954.255343750003,"end":13955.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13961.832218750002,"end":13975.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13977.05346875,"end":13977.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13988.781593750002,"end":13991.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14006.01096875,"end":14006.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14010.195968750002,"end":14011.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14012.423468750003,"end":14013.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14014.17846875,"end":14014.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14015.258468750002,"end":14015.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14018.954093750002,"end":14049.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14034.68159375,"end":14035.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14048.97471875,"end":14059.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14059.032218750002,"end":14064.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14064.989093750002,"end":14069.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14070.13596875,"end":14074.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14074.574093750001,"end":14078.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14080.075343750003,"end":14081.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14081.864093750002,"end":14110.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14111.36159375,"end":14114.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14116.238468750002,"end":14129.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14129.316593750002,"end":14129.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14129.97471875,"end":14130.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14130.14346875,"end":14130.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14130.750968750002,"end":14130.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14130.970343750003,"end":14135.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14136.589718750001,"end":14148.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14149.364093750002,"end":14151.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14151.96284375,"end":14152.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14152.722218750001,"end":14157.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14153.29596875,"end":14155.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14157.02534375,"end":14157.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14157.24471875,"end":14157.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14157.480968750002,"end":14157.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14157.852218750002,"end":14161.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14161.227218750002,"end":14166.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14161.379093750002,"end":14161.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14162.52659375,"end":14163.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14166.57659375,"end":14166.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14166.610343750002,"end":14166.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14166.711593750002,"end":14167.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14167.032218750002,"end":14167.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14167.065968750001,"end":14167.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14167.082843750002,"end":14167.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14167.47096875,"end":14173.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14174.204093750002,"end":14175.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14175.419093750003,"end":14175.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14176.043468750002,"end":14176.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14176.06034375,"end":14178.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14177.984093750001,"end":14179.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14179.75596875,"end":14180.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14180.39721875,"end":14184.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14184.970343750003,"end":14186.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14187.332843750002,"end":14190.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14189.67846875,"end":14191.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14191.484093750001,"end":14194.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14194.977218750002,"end":14224.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14202.250343750002,"end":14202.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14223.47909375,"end":14224.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14224.508468750002,"end":14224.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14225.16659375,"end":14225.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14225.200343750003,"end":14227.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14228.237843750001,"end":14229.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14229.43596875,"end":14230.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14231.258468750002,"end":14246.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14246.597843750002,"end":14248.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14249.078468750002,"end":14264.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14264.755343750003,"end":14264.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14265.29534375,"end":14270.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14271.15096875,"end":14279.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14279.082218750002,"end":14280.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14281.343468750001,"end":14291.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14291.434718750003,"end":14293.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14293.71284375,"end":14310.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14308.90034375,"end":14314.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14314.70534375,"end":14339.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14337.95909375,"end":14338.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14339.96721875,"end":14346.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14345.316593750002,"end":14349.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14347.93221875,"end":14353.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14350.109093750001,"end":14351.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14355.10409375,"end":14367.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14367.996593750002,"end":14368.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14368.941593750002,"end":14379.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14379.505343750003,"end":14382.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14382.35721875,"end":14382.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14382.610343750002,"end":14384.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14384.85471875,"end":14385.360968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14385.64784375,"end":14393.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14394.23721875,"end":14399.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14397.71346875,"end":14411.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14403.484718750002,"end":14403.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14405.644718750002,"end":14406.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14411.095343750003,"end":14411.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14411.753468750001,"end":14419.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14419.02659375,"end":14431.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14423.802218750003,"end":14424.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14430.434093750002,"end":14438.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14439.175343750001,"end":14480.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14473.70159375,"end":14473.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14473.735343750002,"end":14474.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14479.77659375,"end":14493.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14493.934718750003,"end":14493.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14493.95159375,"end":14499.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14500.144718750002,"end":14503.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14502.270968750003,"end":14511.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14511.130343750003,"end":14526.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14524.815968750001,"end":14524.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14524.96784375,"end":14525.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14525.085968750001,"end":14525.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14533.03409375,"end":14534.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14546.48346875,"end":14549.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14549.571593750003,"end":14550.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14549.824718750002,"end":14550.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14550.75284375,"end":14552.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14558.633468750002,"end":14559.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14559.527843750002,"end":14560.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14560.860968750003,"end":14563.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14563.577843750001,"end":14565.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14565.41721875,"end":14567.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14568.40409375,"end":14569.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14570.024093750002,"end":14572.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14572.825343750003,"end":14573.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14574.20909375,"end":14574.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14574.90096875,"end":14576.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14577.38159375,"end":14586.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14586.730343750001,"end":14588.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14589.02534375,"end":14604.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14604.16221875,"end":14629.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14629.289093750001,"end":14657.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14657.942843750003,"end":14665.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14665.587218750003,"end":14728.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14728.969718750002,"end":14848.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14850.97596875,"end":14850.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":14850.992843750002,"end":14866.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14858.65409375,"end":14859.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14867.41221875,"end":14869.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14870.16284375,"end":14878.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14878.364093750002,"end":14881.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14881.418468750002,"end":14885.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14885.586593750002,"end":14891.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14892.47159375,"end":14928.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14928.80346875,"end":14973.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14973.47159375,"end":14973.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14973.74159375,"end":14990.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14990.97096875,"end":14991.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14992.152218750001,"end":14993.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14995.324718750002,"end":15012.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15003.930968750003,"end":15004.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15008.74034375,"end":15008.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15008.85846875,"end":15008.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15008.892218750003,"end":15008.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15012.992843750002,"end":15016.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15016.215968750003,"end":15021.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15022.35846875,"end":15024.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15029.00721875,"end":15030.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15039.891593750002,"end":15043.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15043.199093750001,"end":15043.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15051.704093750002,"end":15061.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15061.829093750002,"end":15064.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15065.22096875,"end":15091.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15091.562843750002,"end":15133.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15133.294718750003,"end":15138.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15139.200968750003,"end":15162.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15163.433468750001,"end":15185.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15185.894093750001,"end":15193.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15194.26409375,"end":15266.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15208.894718750002,"end":15209.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15257.258468750002,"end":15257.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15266.97846875,"end":15331.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15333.449093750001,"end":15351.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15342.91596875,"end":15343.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15351.977843750003,"end":15364.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":15365.29221875,"end":15367.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15370.65846875,"end":15371.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15371.45159375,"end":15373.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15381.964718750001,"end":15382.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15383.399093750002,"end":15387.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15385.086593750002,"end":15387.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15387.16221875,"end":15387.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15387.263468750003,"end":15388.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15388.91721875,"end":15389.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15389.32221875,"end":15389.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15389.355968750002,"end":15389.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15389.372843750003,"end":15389.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15392.730968750002,"end":15393.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15394.215968750003,"end":15396.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15399.008468750002,"end":15400.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15400.425968750002,"end":15428.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15420.422843750002,"end":15421.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15427.93221875,"end":15458.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15436.437218750001,"end":15438.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15458.93159375,"end":15459.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15459.30284375,"end":15460.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15459.31971875,"end":15459.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15459.454718750003,"end":15460.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15460.19721875,"end":15460.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15460.46721875,"end":15462.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15462.036593750003,"end":15463.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15463.859093750001,"end":15465.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15465.985343750002,"end":15466.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15466.89659375,"end":15470.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15470.457218750002,"end":15474.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15473.933468750001,"end":15476.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15475.75596875,"end":15480.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15480.41346875,"end":15496.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15482.640968750002,"end":15485.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15485.273468750001,"end":15485.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15487.99034375,"end":15488.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15490.26846875,"end":15490.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15490.52159375,"end":15491.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15491.399093750002,"end":15491.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15491.95596875,"end":15492.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15492.25971875,"end":15493.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15493.727843750003,"end":15495.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15495.11159375,"end":15495.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15496.90034375,"end":15509.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15509.640968750002,"end":15512.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15512.965343750002,"end":15517.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15517.234718750002,"end":15526.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15517.53846875,"end":15518.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15524.727218750002,"end":15533.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15533.704718750003,"end":15537.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15537.82221875,"end":15540.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15540.825968750003,"end":15552.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15551.33909375,"end":15562.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15559.65846875,"end":15566.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15567.555968750003,"end":15567.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15567.977843750003,"end":15567.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15568.68659375,"end":15568.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15568.703468750002,"end":15580.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15568.821593750003,"end":15569.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15580.43159375,"end":15582.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15582.50721875,"end":15587.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15587.02971875,"end":15587.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15588.19409375,"end":15621.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15597.087218750003,"end":15597.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15597.559718750003,"end":15597.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15598.656593750002,"end":15599.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15621.859718750002,"end":15623.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15624.660968750002,"end":15647.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15625.757843750001,"end":15627.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15647.965343750002,"end":15657.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15656.925968750002,"end":15665.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15666.105968750002,"end":15667.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15668.907218750002,"end":15669.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15668.940968750001,"end":15669.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15669.66659375,"end":15669.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15669.970343750003,"end":15671.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15672.855968750002,"end":15674.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15673.41284375,"end":15673.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15673.547843750002,"end":15673.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15673.61534375,"end":15673.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15673.969718750002,"end":15674.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15674.020343750002,"end":15674.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15674.08784375,"end":15674.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15674.83034375,"end":15674.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15674.93159375,"end":15677.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15675.015968750002,"end":15675.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15675.032843750003,"end":15675.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15675.707843750002,"end":15675.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15677.969093750002,"end":15696.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15696.02534375,"end":15698.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15696.531593750002,"end":15697.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15699.653468750003,"end":15705.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15706.707218750002,"end":15710.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15711.28034375,"end":15718.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15718.97534375,"end":15720.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15721.45596875,"end":15721.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15722.35034375,"end":15722.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15722.97471875,"end":15723.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15723.81846875,"end":15724.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15723.86909375,"end":15726.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15727.56471875,"end":15728.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15729.35346875,"end":15730.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15730.73721875,"end":15744.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":15731.969093750002,"end":15733.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15740.44034375,"end":15741.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15743.17409375,"end":15743.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15744.034718750001,"end":15744.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15744.08534375,"end":15744.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15744.18659375,"end":15744.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15744.49034375,"end":15744.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15744.55784375,"end":15744.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15744.76034375,"end":15745.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15745.03034375,"end":15746.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15746.582843750002,"end":15746.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15746.59971875,"end":15746.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15746.66721875,"end":15746.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15746.71784375,"end":15746.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15746.751593750003,"end":15746.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15746.886593750001,"end":15758.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15755.239718750003,"end":15755.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15756.99471875,"end":15757.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15758.985968750003,"end":15760.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15761.179718750001,"end":15762.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15761.26409375,"end":15761.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15762.934718750003,"end":15768.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15762.968468750001,"end":15763.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15766.613468750002,"end":15767.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15767.035343750002,"end":15767.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15767.254718750002,"end":15767.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15769.02659375,"end":15779.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15779.320343750001,"end":15794.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15794.946593750003,"end":15798.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15797.089718750001,"end":15798.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15798.034718750001,"end":15799.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15799.18221875,"end":15806.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15799.215968750003,"end":15799.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15806.55659375,"end":15815.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15816.192218750002,"end":15821.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15821.59221875,"end":15825.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15825.76034375,"end":15830.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15826.536593750003,"end":15827.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15831.14346875,"end":15832.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15832.88159375,"end":15835.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15836.172218750002,"end":15836.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15837.235343750002,"end":15839.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15840.036593750003,"end":15842.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15843.10784375,"end":15844.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15844.79534375,"end":15845.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15845.672843750002,"end":15846.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15847.69784375,"end":15848.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15848.86221875,"end":15852.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15853.40159375,"end":15856.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15856.18596875,"end":15858.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15859.071593750003,"end":15862.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15862.328468750002,"end":15865.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15866.53034375,"end":15867.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15869.719718750002,"end":15874.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15874.49534375,"end":15875.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15882.98346875,"end":15884.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15888.88971875,"end":15890.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15890.695343750001,"end":15891.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15893.226593750001,"end":15895.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15896.16284375,"end":15899.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15897.00659375,"end":15897.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15897.175343750001,"end":15897.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15897.32721875,"end":15897.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":15897.37784375,"end":15897.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":15897.411593750003,"end":15897.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15897.42846875,"end":15897.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15899.419718750003,"end":15903.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15903.672218750002,"end":15905.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15905.59596875,"end":15908.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15908.700968750003,"end":15912.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15912.599093750003,"end":15917.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15917.442218750002,"end":15923.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15923.939093750003,"end":15925.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15925.52534375,"end":15930.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15931.937843750002,"end":15932.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15932.832218750002,"end":15935.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15936.308468750001,"end":15938.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15938.99159375,"end":15941.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15941.742218750001,"end":15950.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15951.22596875,"end":15961.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15962.17784375,"end":15975.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15975.357218750003,"end":15981.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15981.870968750001,"end":15984.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15984.992843750002,"end":15989.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15989.262218750002,"end":15996.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15997.26096875,"end":16073.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16073.92409375,"end":16083.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16083.914093750001,"end":16088.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16089.53346875,"end":16089.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16089.90471875,"end":16105.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16105.699718750002,"end":16116.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16116.786593750003,"end":16117.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16117.54596875,"end":16117.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16118.28846875,"end":16119.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16120.43159375,"end":16120.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16120.465343750002,"end":16120.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16120.836593750002,"end":16120.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16121.579093750002,"end":16123.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16124.380343750003,"end":16125.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16124.59971875,"end":16124.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16125.359093750001,"end":16125.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16126.45596875,"end":16146.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16129.25721875,"end":16129.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16129.29096875,"end":16129.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16129.392218750003,"end":16129.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16146.672218750002,"end":16151.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16150.77284375,"end":16152.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16152.105968750002,"end":16160.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16160.813468750002,"end":16165.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16165.94346875,"end":16176.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16176.86159375,"end":16188.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16188.285968750002,"end":16194.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16189.78784375,"end":16189.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16193.21346875,"end":16204.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16204.03034375,"end":16204.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16204.317218750002,"end":16204.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16204.55346875,"end":16204.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16205.312843750002,"end":16207.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16207.45596875,"end":16210.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16210.78034375,"end":16231.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16228.27971875,"end":16228.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16231.064093750003,"end":16231.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16231.165343750003,"end":16250.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16232.17784375,"end":16232.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16238.961593750002,"end":16239.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16247.90534375,"end":16248.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16249.10346875,"end":16257.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16257.97971875,"end":16260.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16260.696593750003,"end":16284.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16276.559093750002,"end":16276.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16283.562218750001,"end":16307.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16287.780968750001,"end":16288.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16292.219093750002,"end":16293.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16293.14721875,"end":16295.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16308.01409375,"end":16310.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16311.11909375,"end":16314.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16312.671593750001,"end":16313.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16323.42096875,"end":16323.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16324.399718750003,"end":16338.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16338.70971875,"end":16364.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16365.456593750001,"end":16365.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16366.064093750003,"end":16367.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16368.966593750003,"end":16374.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16374.94034375,"end":16397.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16398.295343750004,"end":16399.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16400.421593749998,"end":16402.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16404.404093750003,"end":16417.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16417.53284375,"end":16422.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16422.021593750003,"end":16422.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16422.240968750004,"end":16423.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16424.434718750003,"end":16429.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16429.632218749997,"end":16435.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16431.47159375,"end":16431.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16431.48846875,"end":16432.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16432.973468750002,"end":16433.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16433.091593750003,"end":16433.108468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16435.302218750003,"end":16441.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16442.30534375,"end":16449.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16450.03409375,"end":16456.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16457.442218750002,"end":16459.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16459.61909375,"end":16467.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16467.33096875,"end":16474.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16474.334093750003,"end":16481.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16481.725343750004,"end":16483.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16483.834718750004,"end":16489.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16489.79159375,"end":16490.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16490.97284375,"end":16496.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16496.98034375,"end":16500.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16500.94596875,"end":16503.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16504.422218749998,"end":16512.842843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16513.382843749998,"end":16516.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16517.247218750003,"end":16524.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16525.043468750002,"end":16534.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16534.17284375,"end":16539.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16539.33659375,"end":16543.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16543.69034375,"end":16550.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16550.811593749997,"end":16562.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16563.07971875,"end":16564.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16565.138468750003,"end":16570.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16571.702843749998,"end":16573.170968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16574.301593750002,"end":16577.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16578.250343749998,"end":16579.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16578.942218750002,"end":16581.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16581.810968750004,"end":16590.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16590.80534375,"end":16592.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16592.49284375,"end":16596.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16606.76909375,"end":16608.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16609.70534375,"end":16609.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16609.82346875,"end":16612.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16612.489718750003,"end":16617.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16617.855968750002,"end":16620.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16622.02409375,"end":16622.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16623.458468750003,"end":16625.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16625.567843750003,"end":16626.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16627.50846875,"end":16633.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16633.785968750002,"end":16635.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16636.26659375,"end":16637.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16637.920343750004,"end":16643.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16643.826593750004,"end":16644.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16644.40034375,"end":16644.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16644.53534375,"end":16644.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16645.750343749998,"end":16646.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16646.62784375,"end":16646.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16647.201593750004,"end":16652.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16649.108468749997,"end":16650.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16654.64346875,"end":16656.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16656.01034375,"end":16656.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16657.005968750003,"end":16657.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16659.098468750002,"end":16660.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16662.33846875,"end":16666.827218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16667.637218750002,"end":16668.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16668.902843750002,"end":16676.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16676.56409375,"end":16679.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16680.630968750003,"end":16683.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16684.19159375,"end":16686.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16686.132218749997,"end":16686.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16686.18284375,"end":16686.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16686.199718750002,"end":16686.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16686.30096875,"end":16686.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16686.38534375,"end":16688.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16687.11096875,"end":16705.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16708.52534375,"end":16708.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16708.575968750003,"end":16708.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16709.099093750003,"end":16709.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16710.75284375,"end":16712.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16713.14909375,"end":16714.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16716.085343749997,"end":16718.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16718.02596875,"end":16719.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16721.16471875,"end":16721.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16726.96971875,"end":16728.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16728.420968749997,"end":16729.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16730.04096875,"end":16732.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16731.914093749998,"end":16732.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16733.449718750002,"end":16733.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16733.97284375,"end":16734.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16734.59721875,"end":16734.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":16734.850343750004,"end":16734.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16734.88409375,"end":16736.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16740.030968749998,"end":16743.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16746.49409375,"end":16746.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16746.764093750004,"end":16747.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16747.33784375,"end":16747.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16748.012843750003,"end":16749.194093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16749.56534375,"end":16754.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16754.32409375,"end":16756.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16756.990343750003,"end":16757.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16757.074718750002,"end":16757.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16757.36159375,"end":16757.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16757.46284375,"end":16757.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16757.513468750003,"end":16757.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16757.969093749998,"end":16760.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16758.08721875,"end":16758.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16758.18846875,"end":16758.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16758.28971875,"end":16758.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16758.340343750002,"end":16760.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16763.28471875,"end":16787.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16789.137218750002,"end":16791.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16791.93846875,"end":16794.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16795.22909375,"end":16795.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16796.427218750003,"end":16799.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16800.122843750003,"end":16801.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16800.156593749998,"end":16801.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16802.50221875,"end":16802.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16806.062843749998,"end":16812.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":16807.24409375,"end":16807.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16807.412843750004,"end":16810.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16811.58096875,"end":16818.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16813.437218749998,"end":16813.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16819.242218749998,"end":16819.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16819.984718749998,"end":16821.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16821.233468749997,"end":16822.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16822.83659375,"end":16823.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16823.29221875,"end":16823.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16823.984093749998,"end":16824.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16824.96284375,"end":16825.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16827.122843750003,"end":16828.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16828.725968749997,"end":16829.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16830.04221875,"end":16831.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16832.53971875,"end":16834.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16834.22721875,"end":16835.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16835.374718749998,"end":16835.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16835.39159375,"end":16835.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16838.530343749997,"end":16838.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16839.154718750004,"end":16840.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16840.97721875,"end":16841.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16842.69846875,"end":16847.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16848.48659375,"end":16849.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16849.802843750003,"end":16850.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16851.35534375,"end":16854.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16854.747218750003,"end":16856.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16857.514718749997,"end":16859.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16859.640968749998,"end":16860.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16860.855968750002,"end":16861.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16862.374718749998,"end":16862.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16862.965343750002,"end":16865.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16865.88471875,"end":16866.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16868.145968750003,"end":16870.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16870.592843749997,"end":16871.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16873.647218750004,"end":16873.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16873.664093749998,"end":16874.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16875.435968750004,"end":16879.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16880.00909375,"end":16880.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16881.561593749997,"end":16893.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16894.55534375,"end":16914.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16915.176593750002,"end":16916.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16916.779718750004,"end":16923.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16923.14159375,"end":16923.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16923.310343750003,"end":16926.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16926.904718750004,"end":16927.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16929.030968749998,"end":16929.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":16929.351593749998,"end":16932.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16929.975968749997,"end":16929.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16929.99284375,"end":16930.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16930.22909375,"end":16930.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16931.545343750004,"end":16931.663468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16931.68034375,"end":16932.169718750003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1998.715,"end":2021.459,"text":"好來請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員14人以主法定人數好我們現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月11日星期一上午9時3分至12時29分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等14人練習委員葉元智委員等10人"},{"start":2027.32,"end":2044.628,"text":"練習人員原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇暨相關人員財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬拉歐斯財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長不當黨產處理委員會主任委員林峰正暨相關人員行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員張家瑜暨相關人員主席張昭暨委員洪祿"},{"start":2048.27,"end":2075.781,"text":"報告事項一、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定。二、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況．備質詢。報告事項與討論事項合併詢答。軍原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇﹐不當黨產處理委員會主任委員林峰正報告﹐委員麥玉珍等19人提出質詢。軍軍原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇﹐財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長馬拉歐斯﹐財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長馬耀古牧﹐"},{"start":2076.161,"end":2094.414,"text":"不當黨產處理委員會主任委員林峰正暨相關人員答覆說明。決定一、登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完必詢答結束。二、委員高金素梅、丁薛忠、黃仁等三人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。三、書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會。"},{"start":2095.975,"end":2123.914,"text":"討論事項一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會原住民族文化發展中心部分。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金原住民族綜合發展基金。三、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業發展基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當當產處理委員會單位預算。"},{"start":2126.836,"end":2147.653,"text":"決議討論事項所列之預算審查相關預算提案請於113年11月18日下午5時前送至立法院內政委員會以立後續審查事宜。宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議一次錄有無錯誤或遺漏沒有錯誤一次錄確定那我們繼續進行報告事項跟討論事項請宣讀"},{"start":2151.107,"end":2167.594,"text":"報告事項：邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。討論事項一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部部分。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國土管理署及所屬、警政署及所屬、中央警察大選消防署及所屬。"},{"start":2168.314,"end":2189.214,"text":"國家公園署及所屬移民署建築研究所空中勤務總隊部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管作業基金營建建設基金實施平均地權基金。四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管特別收入基金。"},{"start":2189.674,"end":2212.645,"text":"新住民發展基金研發及產業迅速替代役基金警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協情民力安全基金國土永續發展基金五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於內政部主管信託基金黃瑞景先生獎學基金胡元忠女士獎助學基金在校學生獎學基金成員獎學基金劉竹琛先生"},{"start":2213.385,"end":2232.637,"text":"警察子女獎學基金。六、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會財團法人威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復基金會財團法人臺灣建築中心財團法人臺灣營建研究院財團法人中央營建技術顧問研究社財團法人臺灣省義勇人員安全寄住基金會"},{"start":2233.597,"end":2252.316,"text":"財團法人警察學術研究基金會財團法人義勇消防人員安全記住基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。七、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。八、審查威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例修正草案計八案。"},{"start":2258.291,"end":2281.027,"text":"本日議程所列報告事項和討論事項合併詢答那我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員我們有王美惠委員蘇巧惠委員黃潔委員李柏毅委員張志倫委員"},{"start":2286.394,"end":2311.427,"text":"好,那我們有劉部長好,我們的董次長還有馬次長還有國土署的吳署長我們警政署的張署長"},{"start":2315.337,"end":2339.669,"text":"我們中央警察大學的楊校長還有我們消防署消訴長我們的移民署的中署長我們建築研究所的王所長我們國土策會中心的鄭主任"},{"start":2342.747,"end":2347.109,"text":"土地重化工程隊林處長、空勤總隊景總隊長、主計處專門委員李專委、行政院人權及轉型正義處副處長石處長"},{"start":2370.044,"end":2391.513,"text":"衛福部心理健康師洪專門委員文化部人文及出版師朱副司長法務部參事廖參事因為今天人太多了,我們就介紹單位"},{"start":2393.496,"end":2399.305,"text":"那我們現在請提案委員說明提案要旨黃婕委員"},{"start":2410.12,"end":2412.881,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":2426.448,"end":2428.389,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":2456.428,"end":2458.789,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":2467.682,"end":2494.079,"text":"希望說讓他們可以依照原本要讓他給他們賠償的這個意義來來領取這一些賠償那還是可以繼續搭配相關的社福的資源來平復他們過去受到的政治暴力上面的創傷然後也真實的保障他們的生存權不會因為請領賠償金或者是請求恢復產權就受到影響好那這是我以上的立法的建議謝謝"},{"start":2496.124,"end":2499.306,"text":"好,謝謝,那請李柏宇委員。欸,謝謝好,這樣一樣我們是針對這個被害人權益"},{"start":2516.62,"end":2537.029,"text":"參現在的這個威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者回復權利的條例的財產及給付對於原本弱勢的經濟和被害者及家屬而言雖然是一時的經濟的協助但是對於原本他生活就處於弱勢能需要國家社會福利制度的資源"},{"start":2537.589,"end":2565.138,"text":"才可以完整的保障他的基本的生存權所以我大概修法的概念是從第8條以及第17條參酌被害人權益保障法72條第一項有關被害人補償收領權利的體力那增訂賠償金權利不得抵銷的概念以及在第17條裡面把抵銷的概念都放進來"},{"start":2566.118,"end":2594.931,"text":"那在第23條裡面除了免稅以外我們希望不記錄社會救助及家庭總收入及其家庭財產才可以讓他可以繼續請領這個相關的社會救助及社會福利這是以上所提出來的針對現行威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例受領的財產及給付的一個修正的方向敬請各位可以支持謝謝"},{"start":2596.951,"end":2603.078,"text":"好 謝謝那我們現在請內政部劉部長事方報告請業務報告預算案與法案一併報告五分鐘"},{"start":2611.159,"end":2627.658,"text":"召委還有各位內政委員會以及大院的委員大家好那今天受邀內政部來報告業務報告以及所屬機關的相關的報告還有加上今天委員要討論的有關威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者"},{"start":2628.218,"end":2648.338,"text":"全力回復條例部分條文修正草案。一共三個報告,僅就以下的內容跟委員報告。第一個就有關內政部業務報告的部分,一共有三個大項,請過夜。今天呈邀報告內政部業務概況跟上會期臨時提案的辦理情形,深感榮幸。"},{"start":2649.099,"end":2670.92,"text":"首先先向各位委員先進至上層次的敬意跟感謝在本會期跟上個會期支持通過內政部所主管的12項法案包括昨天三讀通過的消防法修正條文不僅讓政府在保護民眾生命財產安全相關制度更加完善也在照顧新住民的權益上更邁向嶄新的里程"},{"start":2673.082,"end":2686.151,"text":"為了應對當前所面臨的極端氣候變遷等種種挑戰我到內政部服務半年多以來走訪各地也秉持著院長所說的找新方法找好方法積極跟學術單位、產業界、民間團體等各領域聯繫交流共同探討居住環境等大眾關心的議題"},{"start":2692.995,"end":2710.131,"text":"以及具體落實賴總統所揭示的施政願景跟目標。比如說像今年有凱米、山陀爾跟康瑞颱風的期間應用跨部會的防災科技加強議城孤島地區預防性的疏散撤離及收容安置。除了協調國軍救災與協助調度車輛機具及人力"},{"start":2713.914,"end":2729.602,"text":"支援地方復原作業之外也運用了防救災民力的協作跟地方政府同舟共濟讓民眾能在災後快速回復日常的生活此外在今年國家防災月的活動也有別於以往攜手教育部雜耕校園防災"},{"start":2730.282,"end":2735.426,"text":"並且擴大與國際合作鏈結,邀請9個國家救災人員跟13國的駐台代表參與,因應大規模災害防救的韌性。本會期,內政部將優先推動剛剛所述的威權統治時期國家不法行為,被害者權利回復條例的修法工作,也將深化跟各界合作,為國家奠定堅實的發展基礎,"},{"start":2753.901,"end":2779.739,"text":"營造安居樂業的美好家園。三大面向的重點如下。第一個,提升防救災韌性。為了因應各種風險,強化民間防救災的量能,持續強化民防疫消替代役的訓練。在民防方面,實施民防團隊及民力任務隊緊急救護相關訓練。今年已經培訓超過7萬人次,全面強化團隊執勤安全及初級救護智能。"},{"start":2780.319,"end":2801.01,"text":"在各類型逸銷災防制工方面辦理科技化訓練並且推動國家關鍵基礎設施及企業完成培訓80對自主緊急應變隊另外擴大與機關民間合作培訓防災室目前已經超過3萬3千名的防災室提升緊急情況可以自救自保跟互助的應變能力"},{"start":2801.63,"end":2805.852,"text":"在替代一方面推動現役的藝男進行防災避難訓練以及擴大備役藝男的招訓。落實EMT-1的巨系教育整演訓並且規劃從114年起在現役及備役藝男的訓練當中納入防災式課程以就地協同民防團隊來執勤。"},{"start":2821.181,"end":2835.915,"text":"二、精進打詐聯防機制本部從不同面向加強試詐打詐在制度面上也謝謝大院在今年的時候通過打詐新四法8月2日的時候全面施行本部隨即展開訂定檢舉人獎勵等措施"},{"start":2837.897,"end":2857.972,"text":"並且加強與業者及機關建立聯繫管道在技術面上聯合35家銀行建立鷹眼市詐聯盟運用AI辨識高風險帳戶另外結合警政、民政等單位以及20餘個宗教團體共同合作強化社區反詐防護力道同時在今年8月開始公布打詐儀表板"},{"start":2858.973,"end":2888.086,"text":"定期揭露詐騙樣態,讓防詐觀念入村入裡入人心。目前本部正在精進有關於打詐綱領2.0的部分,要再升級有關打詐的力道。在完善警消權益保障方面,內政部在今年6月14日成立警消勤怒安全促進與事件調查會,並且在今年9月12日嫌權序部修正發布警察人員人事條例施行細則,給予警眷遺族更好的權益保障跟照顧。"},{"start":2888.766,"end":2909.477,"text":"在消防人員安全方面分年逐步太購消防車輛救災裝備及強化訓練從114年起補助地方成立專業團隊此外也感謝大院委員先進的鼎力支持在昨天已經三讀通過消防法修正案全方位提升公共及消防職業安全的保障"},{"start":2910.157,"end":2939.275,"text":"二、在推動永續以及環境方面租屋支持體系在加速落實賴總統所揭示的百萬租屋加戶的目標本部有三大措施第一個在直接興辦方面已經盤點200多處土地或老舊廳舍將導入小造鎮的模式打造全民友善的共生社區此外在今年10月召開社宅租金分級收費原則會議將持續凝聚共事建立更均衡的方案"},{"start":2939.775,"end":2965.889,"text":"在包租代管方面要搭配財政部房屋稅差別稅率2.0同時強化連結社福資源增加房源供給。在租金補貼方面延長了所謂的300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計畫到115年。未來兩年每年可提供75萬戶的租金補貼並且持續滾動調整以協助更多民眾實質減輕生活負擔。此外"},{"start":2968.07,"end":2988.016,"text":"內政部在今年首次公布全國278個行政區及大學周邊的租金資訊分別在今年7月、8月實施了租屋電費新制以及開辦免費租屋法律諮詢專線服務讓租屋保障更加全面完整。第二、在有關實踐淨零碳排行動方面"},{"start":2988.556,"end":3005.351,"text":"本部採增匯及減碳雙軌並行的策略積極執行。在增匯部分推動國家公園、碳管理及重要濕地的碳匯調整以生物多樣性保育為前提。透過劣化棲地造林等行動增生增匯的生產力。"},{"start":3006.152,"end":3034.127,"text":"在減碳方面逐步發展建築淨零轉型先從社宅等公有建築物帶頭另外在今年舉辦多場座談會研討會透過跟社會各界對話引導民間力量跟進。第三在完善國土及都市發展體系方面內政部已經召開46場次會議跟說明會而且拜會多位地方首長期盼完成全國國土功能分區圖的公告作業讓國家土地更能夠永續發展"},{"start":3035.248,"end":3055.764,"text":"感謝大院委員先進的鼎力支持在今年10月25日三讀通過《都市更新條例》的修正案,預計全國約有27萬戶可以受惠,讓居住環境更加安全。內政部將持續盤點前例區域推動政府主導《都市更新案》,以改善都市環境的居住品質。"},{"start":3056.485,"end":3084.114,"text":"另外在行人交通安全設施條例方面在今年10月1日開始施行並且已經核定815處義照式路口的改善打造平整順暢安全的行人通行環境那內政部在持續推動0403花蓮震災的復原重建方面有成立專案辦公室整合公司資源也提供災民全方位的協助並且要分期分區推動太魯閣國家公園的復原重建"},{"start":3084.974,"end":3106.445,"text":"預計在114年可以陸續完成部分的油氣景點開放,儘早恢復往日的生機。第三,在營造多元平權方面。第一個,建構全方面的新住民政策。感謝大院支持新住民基本法在今年8月12日公佈,為我國新住民發展奠定堅實的基礎。我們已經成立新住民事務籌備"},{"start":3107.486,"end":3122.343,"text":"作業小組讓新住民在就學就業等各面向權益保障走向嶄新階段同時在今年10月18日開播新住民多元文化廣播節目協助新住民適應在台生活為國家發展注入新動力"},{"start":3124.056,"end":3152.726,"text":"第二在有關深化民主人權方面感謝大院支持我們上個會期通過修正了地方民意代表費用支給以及村里長事務補助費補助條例以及地方製度法的相關規定進一步保障民選地方公職人員的權益那為了落實轉型正義也凝聚了威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例的部分條文修正草案也懇請各位委員今天審查的時候鼎力支持"},{"start":3153.306,"end":3155.768,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":3181.75,"end":3183.411,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":3200.16,"end":3212.551,"text":"以上是內政部的業務報告那有關於相關的其他附屬單位報告的部分我也快速跟各位委員報告一下就本次審議機關113年度已經過期間預算執行情形以及114年度"},{"start":3216.715,"end":3235.408,"text":"三、審查114年度施政計劃重點及配合施政計劃114年度預算案的編列情形檢要報告尽情指教。一、單位預算113年度已經過期期間的預算執行情形。第一、稅務預算截至10月底止,超收14億5548萬6千元。主要系臺北都會區快速道路整體發展計劃,"},{"start":3242.052,"end":3255.758,"text":"八八九零年度未結清金額繳戶等收入較預計增加所至。參閱附表一。第二、稅出預算截至10月底止累計執行數有930億6690萬6千元執行進度為91.65%。第二、114年度施政計劃重點依據行政院114年度施政方針配合中程施政計劃及核定預算額度並且針對"},{"start":3269.003,"end":3292.895,"text":"經涉情勢變化及未來發展需要編定,其目標與重點如下。一、穩定社會秩序,強化國家安全。二、提升防救災任性,增進公共安全。三、永續國土發展,共創城鄉均衡。第四、營造安居家園,促進城市再生。第五、落實民主參與,活絡公民社會。第六、提升便民服務,展現人權精神。"},{"start":3293.795,"end":3296.917,"text":"三、配合施政計劃114年度預算編列情形。一、稅入預算編列33億8618萬6千元,較113年度增列1億298萬1千元。第二、稅出"},{"start":3309.165,"end":3313.287,"text":"預算編列1507億1523萬7千元較113年度增列了392億4846萬6千元各機關預算編列情形如下一、內政部編列134億2437萬8千元國土管理署及所屬編列858億413萬6千元"},{"start":3331.536,"end":3337.821,"text":"第三、警政署級所屬編列328億9467萬3千元。第四、中央警察大學編列13億4926萬6千元。第五、消防署級所屬編列57億2146萬9千元。第六、國家公園署級所屬編列35億312萬元。"},{"start":3351.152,"end":3357.794,"text":"第七、移民署編列55億4334萬7千元。第八、建築研究所編列3億315萬3千元。第九、空中勤務總隊編列21億7169萬5千元。第二、附屬單位預算在營建建設基金方面113年度截至10月底止剩餘107億8713萬8千元。主要系國庫撥補"},{"start":3377.981,"end":3384.282,"text":"住宅基金辦理300億元中央擴大租金補貼專案計劃及社會住宅興辦計劃等,依實際執行進度認列,其他補助收入所至。二、114年度預算案收入編列709億3172萬5千元,支出編列678億1201萬2千元,收支相抵預算剩餘31億1970萬3千元。"},{"start":3404.227,"end":3423.989,"text":"叫113年度由短處轉為剩餘。第二、實施平均地權基金。一、113年度截至10月底止剩餘4656萬5千元主要系收取新北市土城司法園區區段徵收案的差額地價款所至。第二、114年度預算案"},{"start":3424.75,"end":3433.638,"text":"收入編列4912萬2千元支出編列1398萬8千元收支相抵預計剩餘3513萬4千元較113年度增加剩餘63萬3千元。第三、新住民發展基金依113年度截至10月抵止剩餘2億1382萬4千元主要系各補捐助計劃案因受補助單位尚未完成核銷所致"},{"start":3452.054,"end":3454.756,"text":"二、114年度預算案基金來源編列4億421萬元,基金用途編列3億9千零38萬7千元,預計剩餘1382萬3千元,較113年度由短促轉為剩餘。四、研發及產業訓除替代役基金113年度截至10月底轉促566萬6千元,"},{"start":3474.787,"end":3490.494,"text":"主要系預定通知報到入營人數因藝南尚未畢業等因素未能入營藝南的新給大育等相關權益支出減少所致。第二、113年度預算案基金來源編列3億1616萬2千元基金用途編列3億6541萬5千元預計短處4925萬3千元較113年度增加短處3510萬8千元。"},{"start":3503.346,"end":3522.773,"text":"五、警察消防海巡移民空勤人員及協勤民力安全基金113年度截至10月抵止短處2286萬元主要系各項安全金申請案件依實際情形合撥執行金額較預計增加所至。二、114年度預算案基金來源編列527萬5000元基金用途編列1429萬元預計短處901萬5000元"},{"start":3531.235,"end":3549.481,"text":"較113年度減少短處173萬4千元。第六、國土永續發展基金113年度截至10月抵止剩餘99億1160萬1千元。主要系部分委辦案需配合各案之應辦事項及工作期程直轄縣市政府等依實際進度辦理請還所致。"},{"start":3551.702,"end":3556.243,"text":"二、114年度預算案基金來源編列101億5197萬4千元基金用途編列9億2199萬5千元預計剩餘92億2997萬9千元較113年度減少剩餘2億4801萬9千元"},{"start":3570.447,"end":3591.436,"text":"第三信託基金請參閱副表6包括黃瑞景先生獎學基金胡圓周女士獎助學基金在校學生獎學基金成員獎學基金劉竹琛先生警察子女獎學基金請參閱以下報告資料。第四財團法人包括二二八事件紀念基金會"},{"start":3592.236,"end":3611.833,"text":"威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復基金會臺灣建築中心臺灣營建研究院中央營建技術顧問研究社臺灣省義勇人員安全記住基金會警察學術研究基金會義勇消防人員安全記住基金會請參閱以下報告。第五有關行政法人部分"},{"start":3612.473,"end":3629.444,"text":"國家住宅及都市更新中心113年度截至10月抵止剩餘2億4754萬8千元主要系配合社會住宅興建進度與都市更新案招商審議進度部分土地租金及相關費用尚未支付所致。二、"},{"start":3629.904,"end":3651.158,"text":"一百一十四年度預算案收入總額三十七萬五千兩百八十四萬五千元支出總額含所得稅費用三十四億六千九百四十六萬五千元收支相抵預計稅後剩餘兩億八千三百三十八萬元較一百一十三年度增加剩餘兩億一千五百十六萬六千元"},{"start":3651.658,"end":3672.315,"text":"在結語的部分本次審議機關執掌全國民政、戶政、地政、議政、合作及人民團體、國土管理、警政、警察教育、災害防救、國家公園、入出國移民及建築研究等業務本部及所屬全體人員將秉持主動、積極的態度、陸力推展各項政策措施。第三案"},{"start":3680.349,"end":3689.622,"text":"有關威權統治時期所提的這個行政院所提的這個部分條文修正案非常謝謝各位委員到目前為止呢總共有8"},{"start":3690.563,"end":3692.945,"text":"四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":3720.643,"end":3722.185,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":3738.083,"end":3762.795,"text":"剝奪回覆的權利不得扣押讓與抵銷或供擔保在第17條之一。那在第23條第4項跟第23條第5項分別是確保賠償金的受領人不致因為獲得賠償而影響原有低收入戶中低收入戶等社會福利身份還有受領的財產或給付不得為強制執行標的並且增列但書受領人得自願供擔保"},{"start":3763.956,"end":3765.017,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":3789.112,"end":3813.811,"text":"其他單位報告請委員自行策略並刊登公報我們現在進行詢問委員諮詢前原力做幾點宣告每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記因為我們今天法案處理本次會議就不處理臨時提案請問各位委員有沒有意見"},{"start":3815.213,"end":3839.471,"text":"好沒有那我們現在進行詢問請登記第一位的張志倫委員主席好各位委員各位今天在場的官員大家早是有請劉部長請部長"},{"start":3846.555,"end":3846.737,"text":"政務委員長"},{"start":3848.417,"end":3875.337,"text":"部長早今天是這個內政部的預算的審查的詢答那想先請教部長有關於大家現在全民最重視的這個臺灣的毒品氾濫的問題上司菸毒依託彌子這個氾濫那請就是我們這邊在呼籲政府行政院還有我們的司法單位盡速核定為二級毒品讓犯罪的事件來斷元"},{"start":3876.698,"end":3894.284,"text":"那要跟部長報告從今年的這個不管是7月的三重的員警跟這個土城的這個分9月的土城的這個所長都遭撞不治受傷那其實的原因都是吸食這個喪屍煙彈這一坨米子毒價所造成的"},{"start":3897.685,"end":3900.367,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":3914.437,"end":3929.348,"text":"五十八點二倍所以是不是請這個部長在這邊要如何來保障我們所有第一線這個警察的安全以及現在這個依托女子上司煙毒的部分未來要如何有效來防治跟查緝"},{"start":3930.68,"end":3938.204,"text":"非常謝謝張委員關心我們這個警察出勤的人數以及現在的一個安全的狀況那第一個我們非常了解這個喪屍煙彈在最近可以說在煙毒氾濫非常這個猛烈的狀況之下我身痛惡絕所以我們的警政單位在第一時間內都希望說我們的法務部在有關毒品方面能不能讓三級變成是二級毒品那這個部分也獲得我們卓院長的支持"},{"start":3957.853,"end":3978.507,"text":"三、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會"},{"start":3987.093,"end":3989.294,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4005.582,"end":4007.644,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4022.553,"end":4044.11,"text":"所以9月已經1200件現在已經上升到1800多件所以拜託明天那個警政署的部分你們一定要來跟法務部提議說這個東西真的是很氾濫一定要來把它升級為二級這個已經有開購會原則上就是說會把這個二級升為把三級升為二級有沒有信心應該有信心好謝謝那部長我再請教一下"},{"start":4045.091,"end":4071.77,"text":"之前我一直請教就是現在從9月12號警察人員人事條例已經有放寬這個因公殉職的條件那我之前一直在請教就是7月的三重的員警以及土城所長9月的土城所長的事件以及之前金融的員警2月的員警有一個員警也是殉職都已經升級為因公殉職了那這樣子的他的這個撫恤金到底什麼時候才會發下去"},{"start":4072.791,"end":4075.293,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4089.565,"end":4093.51,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4109.75,"end":4115.332,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4127.336,"end":4129.077,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":4145.285,"end":4173.856,"text":"那包委員那我們今年去年通過打詐司法之後相關各部會都在努力當中不管是在通傳類、數碼部、金管會還有內政部、法務部會同心協力來做這個打詐的一個工作那這個打詐這個的經費的增加是有沒有預期的目標花了50億人民幣納稅錢有沒有預計要降低多少大概降低百分之多少這個我們會繼續來努力了那部長你有沒有信心"},{"start":4176.149,"end":4180.092,"text":"謝謝張委員其實比較重要是因為打詐司法通過之後那打詐司法通過之後我們的所謂的這個詐騙的那個量大概有往下降大概13%左右但是現在的就是剛剛我們署長所說的我們要聯合5到6個部會包括說在網路的這個打詐上面的怎麼樣跟國外的這些網路這個媒體跟他做比較好或者是說要變成實名制那這個部分必須要給我們一些相關單位一點時間"},{"start":4203.052,"end":4205.013,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":4231.223,"end":4241.308,"text":"四、審查內政部部長林佳龍指出美國要求臺灣成立全社會韌性委員會。國防預算的錢不用編在國防部,可以編在其他單位。顧名思義,現在臺灣的國防預算GDP大概是2.38%左右,美國要求的是5%到10%。"},{"start":4260.757,"end":4283.258,"text":"好那我想要請教說這部長你是不是騙我就是說你一直說我們所有的這個賴總統賴清德總統他這個全社會任性委員會主要在內政部底下是做有關於消防救災訓練那我是不是先可以請教就是說我們到底內政部編列了多少是有關於這個全社會任性的是有關於跟國防預算有關的"},{"start":4285.17,"end":4296.554,"text":"報告委員我想你的訊息大概是有誤差第一個全社會防衛任性在總統的主政之下其實內政部是其中的一環它還包括有衛福部、交通部、經濟部等等那內政部所處理的部分確實就是屬於民力的訓練"},{"start":4301.115,"end":4325.609,"text":"所以我們現在在內政部所規劃的部分大概就是全社會防衛任性的民力訓練包括我們的警察或者是消防的訓練那這些都是跟大規模的震災有關的部分我想這個我們可以去看一下我們並沒有編列任何跟國防相關的裝置或設備林佳龍部長講的全社會任性防衛不用國防的預算可以編到各部份所以您的意思是說內政部沒有編列任何有關於"},{"start":4330.532,"end":4332.113,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4353.009,"end":4358.312,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4374.764,"end":4391.999,"text":"函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人1函送財團法人"},{"start":4394.08,"end":4421.32,"text":"第一個我先跟委員報告一下中州的部分大概就是因為私校退場所以我們配合的教育部它要歸電教育部的中州校地的價款這個價款就高達一億八千萬那再來就是它裡面的大樓需要再重新修建因為很多都是不合規定那修建完了以後也是擔任我們未來在民房包括是替代教育訓練的場所那我先請教這個計畫是不是會後可以趕快提供給本席我們也編列在我們的預算裡面"},{"start":4422.83,"end":4424.451,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4444.557,"end":4446.198,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":4477.585,"end":4483.415,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請等部長喝完水我們請部長"},{"start":4493.123,"end":4494.184,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":4510.16,"end":4529.435,"text":"好,我們先講治水啦其實11月還有這麼多颱風其實少見因此今年確實有風災包括了我的新北我們的新北地區確實也都受到災情很感謝中央尤其是賴總統就已經宣示了明年中央治水預算會增加到551億比今年度增加的還要超過了40%"},{"start":4536.021,"end":4550.783,"text":"這其實對地方來講都是好消息那我想知道請教部長部長你知道跟內政部相關的治水預算有哪幾項嗎是跟委員報告一下跟內政部相關大概是在污水或者是地下污水下水道的興建工程沒錯"},{"start":4551.644,"end":4572.057,"text":"沒錯沒錯就我們現在列出來的這三項嘛對不對有繼續完成的前瞻建設的部分也有汙水下水道的部分等等其實這三項預算都相當的龐大但它都是跨年度的計劃所以這也是合理那我們希望這些能夠完成之後讓都市地區的排水能夠更好"},{"start":4573.058,"end":4594.683,"text":"所以在風災、水災來臨的時候整個城市更有韌性也感謝上一次昭偉排了這樣的考察那張宏東、昭偉和我們一起直接去現地會刊但我想跟這個部長這邊表達我在其他的相關部會也就是非都市計劃區也做過同樣的要求就是我們希望這些治水計劃能夠以這一次有受災的地區能夠優先納入計劃來做改進"},{"start":4601.505,"end":4602.266,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4618.208,"end":4619.688,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4641.254,"end":4641.975,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4658.948,"end":4682.72,"text":"我調出了2016到2024八年中央對新北市污水下水道的補助這平常在座沒有感覺把八年一次調出來一次看完以後哎呀我們中央給新北的補助竟然高達了219億說實在不好意思對其他的委員中央給我們新北市全國第一啦抱歉啦"},{"start":4683.52,"end":4708.131,"text":"八年下來有219億而且這中間還分了三期因為本來中央是公平的是希望每個地方都能夠污水下水道的接管率能夠提升所以50%接管率還沒有到50%的時候我們當然大力補助那你一旦超過了50%以後本來是要減少的可是看看這一樣是署長說到你的照片在這裡謝謝你的補助這是剛剛開始的時候"},{"start":4712.173,"end":4713.894,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4732.409,"end":4755.417,"text":"那最後更感謝的是因為我們民意代表不斷的反映新北市政府也提出了要求沒有錯中央跟地方共同的認為只要接管率不是到達百分之百他就是有必要應該要繼續做啊所以你看你在2021年的時候鬆綁了規定同意持續補助普及率超過百分之五十的縣市謝謝這個我們當時有要求你們也照做了所以整體下來真的就是我們的這個"},{"start":4761.499,"end":4764.14,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4781.744,"end":4784.728,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4798.607,"end":4801.389,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":4821.365,"end":4846.316,"text":"是謝謝目前新北市有18個污水系統在開辦那剛剛就是我們國土所所說的不一定是局限於50%有需要我們一定會做而且蘇委員特別提到我們關心這個如果有任何的颱風災害的話呢有需要我們就一定處理這個也是總統所標示的所以我們一定會來處理這個部分那至於有部分的地方民貸呢他可能對於中央補助的預算不是很清楚"},{"start":4846.716,"end":4874.626,"text":"因為中央所撥補的預算都到地方政府去那地方政府說這是地方政府出的預算其實它到下面要到哪裡去就是地方政府決定了就是到市政府對對所以我們在處理的過程當中我們一定會澄清有關這方面的謬誤我想就是你把訊息澄清啦但是補助我們持續進行了畢竟治水污水這些工程都是中央跟地方要同心協力才能夠完成的人民在意的是事情要能夠完成城市要能夠建好啦好那最後一個"},{"start":4875.086,"end":4879.308,"text":"都市計劃的審議這個部分的話我這還是要請部長了解一下狀況部長我自己的選區其實樹林這邊有一個行政園區的計劃其實這個行政園區的計劃我們是在今年的去年的去年2023年的7月的時候送件去年2023年的12月做了第一次審查可是現在停在哪裡呢停在他說"},{"start":4901.039,"end":4914.376,"text":"我們因為新本市有很多其他的行政園區都也在審啊所以請先建立好一個通則之後我們再來繼續處理好那我要看哪個地方是通則欸原來是永和跟土城結果這樣一看部長"},{"start":4916.559,"end":4936.705,"text":"永和是什麼時候送件的?是2021年送件。什麼時候開始第一次審查?12月。第二次審查?2023年就直接跳了一年半啊。到了第二次審查是什麼時候?到2024年的12月了。土城是什麼時候送?2021年送。開會的時候是2022年。現在第二次的審查會是什麼時候?是預計2025年。部長。"},{"start":4941.907,"end":4963.982,"text":"這樣的案件審查的過程確實是讓人覺得比較長了一點我們可以理解啦我們可以理解說這個都市計畫地區多審議案量大如果都市委員這個審議委員只有30人要審查全國416處這樣的都市計畫真的量能是不足我是覺得是辛苦沒有錯"},{"start":4964.782,"end":4982.416,"text":"但是問題是事情也是要走啊所以我在這裡很具體的想建議部長的部分是第一審查的量能是不是能夠擴大我們是需要加人嗎還是需要加預算呢還是怎麼樣總之我們就是要把案件量審完嘛那它的複雜程度等等不一"},{"start":4983.337,"end":4998.79,"text":"但我們需要開會需要審查那是不是可以擴大量能第二你在審查的效能就是那個文件資料往返的部分是不是可以更精進一點不要你這次問了這個問題然後等到地方政府送件回來就已經大概是半年一年了那等到我在開會又半年一年再提出新的問題又半年一年"},{"start":5004.494,"end":5009.935,"text":"我覺得這樣的效能並不是太理想所以我具體提出擴大審議量能提升審議效能這樣的要求希望內政部可以加速謝謝委員的指正我們一定會來改進但是你提到有關於永和土城行政園區的這個案子我們已經在這個召開第一次的專案小組會議12月17號的會議是第三次的專案小組要審查也就是你剛所說的都市計畫的審議委員在開會的時候還會有另外專案小組"},{"start":5033.68,"end":5034.901,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5058.158,"end":5065.323,"text":"包括進度可以讓我們辦公室可以瞭解我們要求的、希望的就是加速這個都市計畫的審議速度。是,我們來提供。好,謝謝部長,謝謝。好,請麥玉貞委員。謝謝主席,有請部長。好,請部長。"},{"start":5092.421,"end":5114.09,"text":"麥委員早部長好很感謝你剛才有聽你說我們的新住民事務要成立在9月今年9月已經成立籌備小組希望是明年的話可以就是我們新住民發展署是正式的成立"},{"start":5116.19,"end":5118.493,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5132.75,"end":5136.352,"text":"5.9億推動數位身份證但是規劃不當遭受各界質疑接任後的蘇貞昌院長也在2021年也宣布這個政策要暫緩但標案早已經發包所以廠商就是不甘損失先政府求償5.26億"},{"start":5159.204,"end":5162.808,"text":"加上就是採購的機器、場地及空調的費用是5.24億總積就是超過10億元請教部長你知道這件事嗎?報告委員其實數位身份證停止再繼續推動是立法院的通過的決議"},{"start":5179.966,"end":5181.466,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5210.052,"end":5211.133,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5229.945,"end":5234.867,"text":"將是否收到我們賴清德總統指示說我們明年這個方案要執行嗎還是說如果沒辦法推動為何我們每年還要編列6000萬的維護費這個是人民的納稅錢你們要節得浪費嗎報告委員這個是按照契約規定的這一定我們要支付"},{"start":5251.812,"end":5252.613,"text":"四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":5275.809,"end":5279.573,"text":"報告委員這個不是為了廠商我剛所說這是一個信賴保護的原則就是我們在推動過程當中保護原則就是廠商已經有契約所以他上面要支付的話我們就必須要支付那期間有公共工程委員會也幫我們協調所以降低了支付的費用"},{"start":5295.149,"end":5296.81,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5311.841,"end":5316.142,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5331.479,"end":5332.9,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5357.921,"end":5370.828,"text":"報告委員既然我們是編列的部分的話就是為了訓練為了訓練的工作的話這個訓練的量能大概就是跟民防訓練相關的部分現在所編列的預算大概是4億"},{"start":5372.709,"end":5377.893,"text":"四億一千六十四萬所以四億多嘛但是部長你看喔你剛才講得很好就是我們要防疫任性訓練但是你看喔也要請我們全國的人民看你編列900多萬的預算是辦親子研遊會請教一下親子研遊會和我們的社會防衛任性訓練工作有什麼關聯"},{"start":5400.788,"end":5419.045,"text":"報告委員我們現在所訓練的對象是替代役替代役有現役替代役我們看的是研遊會您聽我講替代役有備役替代役也有現役替代役那備役替代役大部分都是在30到40歲左右所以呢就是研遊會900萬是訓練"},{"start":5422.248,"end":5423.769,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5445.642,"end":5446.983,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5457.232,"end":5460.795,"text":"還有全民通訊專刊給業務費項目也預算了400萬其中390萬是媒體業務費這樣的編列對人民是否真正的有幫助因為看到了只有10萬元是做夜刊卻拿了390萬買媒體難道這樣的預算安排是為了培植黑熊學院嗎"},{"start":5489.039,"end":5490.52,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5510.051,"end":5510.711,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5536.447,"end":5538.55,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5557.728,"end":5558.309,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":5572.83,"end":5579.113,"text":"前幾年就是有去改革的時候就是兵役改革的時候就是我們的國防部還有內政部都有去過一直重複的去考察同一個國家回來的時候有什麼成效我們看的都是去往的用意如果是有成效的話希望我們"},{"start":5597.202,"end":5598.563,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":5617.216,"end":5619.537,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5647.267,"end":5657.178,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":5669.258,"end":5693.193,"text":"部長早安這住宅政策是本席長期關心的議題現在年輕人面對低薪高房價的問題常常房子還是二選一近年來政府推出了所謂的新清安政策讓購屋市場的買氣非常非常的熱絡雖然這個政策不是內政部來主責但內政部必須配合辦理那以部長從居住正義的角度來住宅政策的角度來看新清安政策造成的問題有哪一些"},{"start":5696.664,"end":5709.017,"text":"第一個剛剛劉委員提到說新青安政策並不是由內政部來主責那他當然會有一些年輕人有不同的看法那我們就是尊重主責單位包括財政部跟中央銀行他們的看法"},{"start":5709.912,"end":5731.941,"text":"其實問題媒體也很多啦這個感覺起來好像是給了相對年輕的家庭或者是年輕的年輕人有了一個購物的機會但實際上這個政策這幾年推下來的時候大家發現其實副作用不小雖然確實有些人因為這樣買了房子交易量大增可是交易量大增的副作用其實很多啊第一個吃掉大量的銀行房貸額度啊然後這個"},{"start":5734.414,"end":5749.283,"text":"尤其是集中在六都或者是七都包含新竹在內其實房價上漲的趨勢非常兇猛甚至抵消了過去政府在打房政策跟平易房價、平易炒作的政策上面的諸多努力"},{"start":5750.815,"end":5777.768,"text":"推高房價住宅小宅化很多市井年輕人可能會錯過自己的還貸能力甚至有一些部分的投資客用人頭戶來升貸然後來轉租等等那麼這些問題其實都是內政部要面對雖然這個政策不是你主責但是你有配合的一個角色那部長你知不知道這個新清安政策的裁員從內政部支出的角度內政部也要編列預算來配合新清安政策嗎請問裁員來自於哪裡"},{"start":5779.434,"end":5781.131,"text":"我們的財源是來自住宅基金"},{"start":5781.926,"end":5810.866,"text":"來自於住宅基金對不對這個住宅基金設立的宗旨就如投影片所示就是當初為了健全住宅市場所以要辦理補貼要新辦社會住宅提升居住環境品質其實在住宅法裡面的修正其實講得非常的清楚這個所謂的住宅補貼的目的是要協助所謂的真正的弱勢就是說一定所得或財產以下比如說中低收入或是什麼樣的人有機會買房子的時候可以來做這個市區的住宅可是"},{"start":5812.385,"end":5833.08,"text":"問題是這樣按照住宅法第10條的規定申請住宅補貼應該沒有自用住宅的家庭或者是兩年內建構的家庭為先以前是以家庭為單位第10條第二項也有講住宅補貼對象的優先先後順序要有所謂的評點機制也就是說我的經費有限的時候我要有一個先後次序的一個安排"},{"start":5833.976,"end":5837.617,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5853.543,"end":5877.276,"text":"經費負擔好像不小112年新青安當初的青安當初是1.13億元住宅基金配合到了113年也就是今年大概15.83億然後還有很多人說法說這15.83億恐怕是不太夠到了明年你編列的預算直接暴增到45.96億部長這用住宅基金來大量的補貼新青安政策的利息補貼有符合住宅基金的政策設立宗旨嗎"},{"start":5878.772,"end":5883.178,"text":"報告委員我想您剛所提的住宅基金的一些相關條例確實我們會認為第一個它本來就是無自由住宅的部分18歲以上所以其實在程度上面我們來補貼它是符合的"},{"start":5893.351,"end":5916.756,"text":"只是說像你所說的新青安為什麼會暴增那麼多其實我們的財政部或者中央銀行他們已經在想辦法來壓制所謂的房價一直被炒高的這個狀況那我們都會來努力配合那至於說你所說的這個暴增45.96億它主要的原因在哪裡我是不是可以請我們的同仁來回應一下好嗎所以部長你剛剛的答詢基本上你不反對新青安政策反而造成房價上漲的問題對不對"},{"start":5919.387,"end":5926.051,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5939.059,"end":5941.821,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":5969.379,"end":5972.701,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":5988.772,"end":5990.013,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6010.704,"end":6028.064,"text":"我可以說明一下因為我們的政策的確就執行到115年後面就我們就不會再補貼了後面就不會再補貼那115年預計的支出是多少現在還不清楚還要看財政部最後算因為要等到個人的所謂相關的寬限期到了我們才會知道知道那個數字"},{"start":6029.385,"end":6044.471,"text":"客觀上來講這件事情確實造成了房價上漲嚴重的副作用那其實我也有看到內政部態度有出來啦這一點我還是肯定你居然說未來如果升息我也不會再增加補貼的額度嘛對不對但是我還是希望這場質詢之後你要提供一個815年的估算"},{"start":6046.152,"end":6073.007,"text":"要不然因為我今天提這個問題的原因是因為你現在用的都是住宅基金啊住宅基金的其他用途是什麼是不是興辦社會住宅鼓勵包租貸款還有你的所謂的這個租金補貼對不對你的租金補貼好歹都有一個300億的一個上限嘛對不對但你不要因為這新經案沒有上限沒有詳細配套的這樣子的一個規劃反而排擠了你本來住宅基金的用途嘛欸我們114年用在社會住宅的總開支大概是多少在住宅基金裡面"},{"start":6075.134,"end":6086.252,"text":"我們跟委員報告因為我們包含租金補貼的部分我們會再增加200億我問社會住宅啊對啊你住宅基金裡面的"},{"start":6088.066,"end":6089.587,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6118.566,"end":6146.56,"text":"這一點我希望這個這個內政部要該強硬表態你要佔居住正義的立場的時候你要守住啊是,所以報告我們也是因為照目前我們所堅持的我們就是到明年到115年的7月就全部都截止我後面不會再有這個你115年的估算你要趕快出來啦然後相應我不希望看到這樣子的一個補貼的額度反而超過社會住宅的一個狀況啦我想這樣對居住正義反而是反效果好不好這希望內政部這個會後來做詳細的說明可以嗎"},{"start":6148.301,"end":6153.266,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6175.164,"end":6193.471,"text":"最近有一個紀錄片叫做國有器官他的這個內容就是在講說中共有迫害法輪功的學員相關的內容那這個紀錄片在台灣十月上映可是台灣有非常多的影城接到電子郵件的恐嚇說要放置爆裂物甚至是射殺"},{"start":6194.571,"end":6195.111,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6217.023,"end":6218.104,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6240.656,"end":6241.117,"text":"三、審查內政部部長"},{"start":6253.689,"end":6255.81,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6272.941,"end":6273.702,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6289.483,"end":6304.464,"text":"好謝謝署長的說明這個案子我是在這邊特別提醒我們警政署不希望在台灣這種言論自由的社會裡面有人還要藉由恐嚇的行為來箝制特定的言論我們絕對不能縱容這種行為這個要拜託警政署加強的來偵查"},{"start":6305.766,"end":6307.388,"text":"三、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":6323.967,"end":6327.672,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6339.27,"end":6342.231,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6365.6,"end":6366.641,"text":"二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":6387.343,"end":6407.071,"text":"因為今天這個條例我還是我認為大致上都沒有什麼問題那一個小小的問題是因為其實在我們立法院要修法之前8月的時候衛福部有先發了一個函示那這個在這個函示裡面他們有說依據本條例受領的財產或者是賠償不納入社會救助法家庭的總收入跟家庭的財產計算"},{"start":6408.672,"end":6409.573,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6426.73,"end":6428.41,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6452.808,"end":6456.85,"text":"針對我們第23條第4項的條文確實我們的賠償金的性質跟一般財產權不同它不是屬於收入跟收益的性質所以不應該列入家庭總收入我們也考量因為這個賠償是一時的經濟協助經濟資源那不是長期的經濟支持"},{"start":6479.401,"end":6481.523,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6505.899,"end":6506.64,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6524.312,"end":6537.807,"text":"可是我看了一下目前的進度其實到2022年的時候中央跟地方處理的進度分別是5%跟9%到了今年其實地方處理的進度是比我們中央還快的"},{"start":6539.574,"end":6557.374,"text":"因為我看到的是我們中央處理的進度只有到12%可是地方已經是34%那是不是我們中央遇到了什麼樣的困難或者是我們在清除相關的威權象徵的時候到底執行上是不是應該加快進度呢?"},{"start":6558.174,"end":6582.834,"text":"非常謝謝黃委員的關心我想中央的處理進度大概理論上比較多會需要再持續加強溝通的是在於國防部跟教育部那這個部分大概就是第一個是這個雕像或是銅像那包括退府單位他們覺得說可能在清除的時候會有這樣的困難他們內部需要做長久的溝通那我們當然是站在我們立場上面還是會繼續追蹤辦理"},{"start":6584.355,"end":6598.163,"text":"好 謝謝部長說明我這邊給一個例子因為其實清除威權的象徵現在有非常多元的方式我們是希望這個空間可以解嚴然後這個意義上可以解嚴所以並不一定是說一定要把什麼獎功的統項移除才叫做清除威權象徵"},{"start":6601.445,"end":6603.307,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6616.599,"end":6643.146,"text":"說得非常清楚第一段就是把蔣介石他的生平經歷解釋清楚第二段講說1987解嚴之後民間對於蔣介石的評價是哪些第三階段再講說我們2000年之後我們民進黨執政就開始推動轉型正義的政策這個內容都是史實都是非常客觀的但這就是一種空間解嚴這就是一種讓大家知道在台灣轉型正義的路上可以做到的事情"},{"start":6643.866,"end":6665.021,"text":"所以我認為並不一定是像因為過去有其他委員在講說一定要把這個同項移除甚至是他們在國防委員會有講說那時候的有一個我們馮士寬前主委在國防委員會的時候他說要什麼堅決反對要移除同項其實真的不一定要做到這樣"},{"start":6665.782,"end":6667.383,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6695.339,"end":6699.123,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6715.677,"end":6721.105,"text":"來,我先來問我們金正事署長,在你們的編列裡面,鄉署檢查的檔案裡面,有14"},{"start":6726.377,"end":6729.139,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6756.557,"end":6761.941,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6768.905,"end":6771.706,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6795.575,"end":6797.977,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6812.19,"end":6812.59,"text":"五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6827.679,"end":6829.22,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6843.487,"end":6844.548,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6860.516,"end":6862.818,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6888.336,"end":6889.156,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6913.905,"end":6915.766,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6932.032,"end":6933.033,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":6948.479,"end":6955.987,"text":"四千九百幾萬,在這裏面是不是市長你可以補充一下,因為我看的是保二中隊裏面會附這個過來的科學跟電訊跟工具,因為我覺得這是非常重要,所以"},{"start":6967.739,"end":6969.441,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":6984.901,"end":6986.402,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7010.609,"end":7011.949,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7032.216,"end":7033.838,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7048.897,"end":7051.459,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7069.162,"end":7074.466,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7084.614,"end":7087.456,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7111.069,"end":7131.636,"text":"很感謝議員,另外一位對於消防機器今年這個議程可以大幅的提升就是說行政部看到地方的訴求有看到地方的訴求所以這件事大部分都是針對地方政府消防救災裝備、器材、車輛、停車還有訓練這個需求來做補充因為訴求,我們"},{"start":7137.765,"end":7140.507,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7159.022,"end":7163.625,"text":"在這裏的部長,我們想要跟你探討一下,我們殯葬所的問題。在我們這個議程裏面,181年到184年,這個15億左右,是剛才大家地方都不知道如何去證出有這個議程,是那時候,"},{"start":7184.18,"end":7186.842,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7199.991,"end":7206.896,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7229.343,"end":7231.545,"text":"我們希望可以爭取第2期的預算因為部長我知道這條是放在前瞻所以我跟您提醒說這個未來的時針你們要繼續爭取因為我這陣子的時間也夠了到後續的時候我們國土署因為關於隔離市、北港路的孤島情勢"},{"start":7254.946,"end":7257.909,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7286.272,"end":7287.238,"text":"謝謝召委我們有請部長"},{"start":7293.174,"end":7317.646,"text":"部長有兩個議題在這邊就教您5月29號的時候您在這邊跟我承諾有幾件事情對於原住民的部分第一個就是零星住戶的住宅使用權利要比照農事第二個是原住民申請興建自用住宅一生一次的規定第三個是3D鄉區為單位的辦理鄉村規劃這三件事情必須納入政策的規劃有嗎"},{"start":7319.407,"end":7320.829,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7338.567,"end":7364.376,"text":"可以公布這是我待會的問題沒關係我再請問您一下在我的協調之下國土署在8月21號的時候也已經召開了部落住宅合法化推動研討會並且對於原鄉部落住宅合法化也提出了初步解決方案署長對吧沒有錯這就是我接著下來是不是可以如期在114年4月30號上路"},{"start":7367.046,"end":7368.087,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":7385.145,"end":7391.648,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7412.478,"end":7414.179,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":7429.787,"end":7431.668,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7456.445,"end":7456.705,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7472.193,"end":7475.534,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7496.118,"end":7524.47,"text":"它是以全國國土計畫發布前的107年4月30日是認為最合理而且可以操作的。是不是這可以作為未來政策的原則?跟委員報告當然這個就是我想他們所提的建議應該也是基於因為之前一直沒有所以他們也沒有進行過類似的調查所以他們會建議是用這個方式是最簡便所以這個我們會跟新北市委討論所以如果是這樣子的話我有兩個建議"},{"start":7525.01,"end":7548.385,"text":"具體的建議要請你來聽一下你是不是可以行文給地方政府就是對於原住民部落住宅合法化的判斷基準也按照國土計劃法第16條行文給各縣市原鄉都市計劃主管的法規並且要依照在原鄉都市或者是非都市計劃都可以適用於這個107年4月30號可以嗎"},{"start":7551.027,"end":7554.089,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7579.189,"end":7581.611,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7601.872,"end":7604.774,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7619.005,"end":7623.907,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7647.216,"end":7657.639,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7676.624,"end":7677.444,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":7700.647,"end":7719.836,"text":"從106年促進轉型正義條例到111年的威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利恢復條例一直到今年的113年民進黨又推出了不易移植保存條例的草案都全部將威權統治時期定義為從中華民國34年的8月15號然後到81年11月6號止"},{"start":7726.519,"end":7743.495,"text":"也就是說僅僅針對中華民國政府在日本戰敗投降之後接收台灣之後一直到金馬地區解除戰地政務為止你了解這件事情吧你有什麼看法我們都是依照法律規定辦理"},{"start":7744.133,"end":7751.635,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7771.901,"end":7795.539,"text":"難道這些就不是不義嗎?所以年輕人請你聽好我們希望民進黨眼中的轉型正義他們不要切割掉台灣的主人也就是原住民族在日據時期被不義行為侵害的事實所以我要再一次的說轉型正義的指導思想是什麼呢?年輕人你知道吧?就是追求真相然後避免再度發生對"},{"start":7801.141,"end":7822.288,"text":"既然是如此的話我就要問了我們的執政黨你對於所謂的位置你是站在殖民者的位置還是站在被殖民的位置執行長你很重要你這要回去好好思考我堅持我堅持轉型正義不能夠淪為轉盤正義不能夠說這個轉盤淪到誰家然後呢就是正義這個輪盤轉不到我家就不是正義你同意嗎執行長"},{"start":7830.565,"end":7847.22,"text":"我們想這個正義應該是有普世價值的普世價值,所以你同意我的說法對不對?好,我在民國97年曾經用五黨聯盟的名義提案過原住民的土地法草案這個草案內容是什麼?我也講給您聽1895年,台灣淪入日本軍國主義之首原住民也經歷了歷史上最慘烈的時代"},{"start":7854.767,"end":7857.989,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7884.727,"end":7886.57,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7901.289,"end":7903.55,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":7917.597,"end":7940.842,"text":"威權不義行為都是侵害都需要被轉型正義來糾正的話那麼我們就應該要把威權統治時期的時間定義在1895年否則我認為這又是一樁樁所謂歷史近在的政治清算罷了執行長您聽到了吧您很年輕你幾歲"},{"start":7947.443,"end":7973.917,"text":"我1977年出生我剛剛講的這段歷史我希望你回去能夠理解好不好你站在這個位置很重要當然未來修法的同時呢我也會堅持我們的立場只不過很遺憾的這個所謂的轉型正義條例上一屆我們在談的時候就切割掉了原住民那我會繼續再努力也希望你跟我站在同一個建設線上可以嗎"},{"start":7974.917,"end":8002.93,"text":"你如果需要一些資料的話,我可以提供給你。好,加油,謝謝。好,我們請李柏惟。先請警政署署長。好,請署長。那個刑事局長。"},{"start":8004.946,"end":8033.984,"text":"你是局長?謝謝主席剛剛沒有介紹到刑事局局長有來我想針對打詐詐騙猖狂其實我相信不只民間連我自己在上個月都有報案那報案的內容就是這個形態的詐騙我想警政署、刑事局也都知道"},{"start":8035.336,"end":8055.409,"text":"我的whatsapp裡面我的whatsappapp裡面收到了一個要我安全中心提醒我要檢測到我的帳號已經過期要我趕快登錄那登錄之後會發生什麼事情局長你知道嗎"},{"start":8057.454,"end":8060.98,"text":"這是一個詐騙的流程,讓你檢測完之後要你的帳戶的資料,要加入什麼樣的網站,進入他詐騙的一個模式。"},{"start":8073.254,"end":8092.561,"text":"那我點入之後,然後當然我的很多花車裡面通訊錄的好朋友就收到我的訊息了。然後那個訊息已經不是我在發給他們了。他說我人在香港,我人在新加坡,我在美國,現在身上沒有錢,請你匯款給我。"},{"start":8094.744,"end":8113,"text":"對這個就是這個是一個詐騙的一個一個型態讓你點擊進去連結那就是會實施他的詐騙的詐騷的手法跟話語所以我後來我當場我就馬上趕快去報案去左營分局那左營分局偵查隊包含高雄市刑大"},{"start":8113.48,"end":8114.92,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":8131.462,"end":8134.644,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8155.794,"end":8157.837,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":8169.057,"end":8170.318,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8192.324,"end":8193.786,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":8210.144,"end":8212.588,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8226.766,"end":8227.507,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8242.149,"end":8257.112,"text":"當然不是只有騙我啦那兩天的收入6萬6有一個會5萬的一個會1萬6的也就是有兩到三個受害人那有一個呢因為帳號被凍結沒有辦法匯入我還救了一個人"},{"start":8258.927,"end":8271.677,"text":"對,所以這個都是一個詐騙集團的詐騙的一種手法跟方式。好,謝謝署長。我們在這個打詐上面我們還要繼續努力跟加油,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝部長。我有兩個政黨題要請教部長,來請劉部長。"},{"start":8279.372,"end":8300.467,"text":"委員好部長首先對於內政部申請統促黨解散向憲法法庭申請統促黨解散這件事情我們在這裡表達支持因為有太多的集會出現統促黨的一些暴力的一些因素那讓這一個原本讓人民自由結社發聲的自由"},{"start":8301.167,"end":8309.732,"text":"因為統促黨這個暴力的這些行為讓內政部可以來做這個申請我在這邊表達支持以外"},{"start":8311.432,"end":8334.372,"text":"台灣民眾黨聲稱在他們所有的部分區立委在兩年後會辭職兩年後也就是說他們原本部分區的排序會從他們的第9名到第16名裡面包含一位有中國籍陸配李貞秀他能不能遞補成為立委那這個內政部有什麼解釋"},{"start":8335.172,"end":8350.269,"text":"根據我們的國籍法20條裡面凡是具有外國籍的話都應該放棄也就是說如果他宣誓登記成為立法委員或者是其他的民意代表的話他就應該放棄他的其他他國的國籍中國籍怎麼放棄"},{"start":8351.75,"end":8353.091,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":8368.035,"end":8377.222,"text":"要求就是說如果已經有人在正式成為立法委員的時候呢他就應該簽署他在就任第11任立法委員的時候有沒有取得外國的國籍那他到職日一年內就要完成上司該國的國籍以及取得相關的證明文件我相信委員你應該有簽這個部分那所以我們現在會行文到包括立法院在內"},{"start":8393.075,"end":8417.245,"text":"要尋求就是說未來如果有立法委員就國籍法20條相關規定的時候要有回覆書那如果我們取得這個回覆書的話我們是要求我們的外管或其他單位來找這個這些委員是不是有其他他國的國籍那如果確認是有其他他國國籍的話按照我們的選罷法的規定他就應該喪失立法委員的資格中國籍好像沒有辦法去放棄中國籍"},{"start":8418.545,"end":8435.403,"text":"這個要問有中國國籍的人問題是這樣子就我們的國籍法的規定我們的忠誠度還有我們憲法上的規定你整個忠誠的對象就是中華民國而不是其他的國家我在這裡要表達的是如果中國只能喪失戶籍而不能喪失國籍的話"},{"start":8436.184,"end":8463.211,"text":"如果有相關的這種人就算他已經簽署了他已經放棄其他國籍有一天中國會宣布他還是他的國民啊他還是中華人民共和國的國民啊所以這一點建議內政部還是要非常審慎更積極的做法當然那我們要請求立法院要幫忙因為以前已經曾經有案例啊他因為有其他的外國國籍所以他必須要解職或是必須要先辭職然後完成這樣的程序以前的案例是美國"},{"start":8463.891,"end":8473.642,"text":"那現在這個案例是中國這更可怕我們所以立法院跟我們內政部會跟立法院的相關單位那審慎來處理這件事情好謝謝部長好請黃金兵委員"},{"start":8494.011,"end":8496.753,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請我們內政部長。好,請部長。黃雲好。部長好。部長,我們內政部的業務包容萬象,從認得出生到成長到死亡,都跟我們內政部的業務息息相關。內政部也是這關我們專攻的內政事務,所以被稱為天下第一大部。"},{"start":8517.671,"end":8536.432,"text":"所以我想今天關於審查內政部及所屬114年的預算,本委會除了要維護我們全國人民還有警消的權益之外,也要守好每一個納稅人的納稅錢,替國家節省開支。讓我們內政部能不能推動和靠好各。"},{"start":8537.193,"end":8540.396,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8560.754,"end":8569.699,"text":"四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":8582.968,"end":8602.52,"text":"對於這個政策,我們監察院也指出,內政部社會主管機關難辭其咎,後續必應該徹底檢討國民身份證相關法制及社會參與機制杜絕類似的案件一再發生。我想有東西停止這個案子到現在"},{"start":8604.209,"end":8615.354,"text":"我們除了廠商跟政府球場的費用加上設備採購的費用還有維護費到現在已經14億了這14億是由全民來買單那現在我們明年我們內政部繼續要編列6,375萬來作為支付新式身份證印製設備暫停執行的費用我們要簽告保證我們這條錢我們這個錢坑什麼時候才會填完"},{"start":8630.153,"end":8643.563,"text":"報告委員您所說的這個14億大概稍微做一下更新一下內政部目前為止支付是6.78億然後呢到整個政策終止的時候我們總共要支付的是10.98億而不是14億"},{"start":8646.605,"end":8648.808,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8662.403,"end":8685.08,"text":"就逐年來編列,然後來償還,未償還的大概是2.22億左右。市長,函發數位這份證,我想不是技術跟設備的問題而已。這個進行,當然我們內政部總統也說過,進行要跨機關的資料共享共用,你要提升資料的應用價值。"},{"start":8686.241,"end":8690.483,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8708.01,"end":8721.422,"text":"這次議事上看到的問題就是我們媒體政策業務宣導費的暴增的問題我相信其他委員也有提到這件事就是說我們從111到114年我們編列的預算分別是7.7億、10億跟9.1億我們一年度編列要直接標準到15億就是到今年畢業我們要加6億這增加了65%"},{"start":8733.453,"end":8749.126,"text":"三、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。四、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。三、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。四、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。四、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部副主機關預算加強。五、審查內政部"},{"start":8763.308,"end":8771.03,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8780.353,"end":8807.588,"text":"本席絕對支持提升打詐能力跟全民反詐的意識因為詐騙真的很可惡但警政署114年你的打詐的宣傳的這個經費的計劃執行內容跟113年完全相同喔你沒有告訴我們說你詳細的告訴我們你們要怎麼做要預期達到什麼叫說你沒有說要怎麼做也沒有說要特別什麼樣你預期期待什麼效果跟績效嗎可是你要增加這麼多的預算"},{"start":8808.752,"end":8810.873,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8830.92,"end":8853.338,"text":"這部分跟委員報告,因為打砸新司法通過之後還有打砸這個鋼鐵2.0那現在詐騙現在猖狂那我們要讓全民有防炸的這個意識那我們113.4只有編1500萬到5月份就用完了,5月份就用完了,然後都要一倍賺來賺來賺來你明年要編的這個2.3億最主要是用在"},{"start":8856.5,"end":8857.861,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":8867.27,"end":8889.666,"text":"也就是說我們民眾的這個接受接受的這個訊息這個量最大應該是來自於電視跟廣告跟這一些網路的平台的這個訊息我們都希望能夠徹底的把詐騙這件事消滅掉所以但是在執行上我們預算的花費也要謹慎的好不好因為這是專門的納稅錢我們一定是發債在這個掏口上"},{"start":8893.709,"end":8901.977,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":8916.792,"end":8930.285,"text":"我非常肯定我們屬於裡面對低薪人員的協助給他們更多辛苦付出的補貼但很可惜的目前是針對是出外勤的才有嘛我們內勤其實沒有嘛對不對其實內勤我們也很辛苦內勤沒危險也很危險啊"},{"start":8935.029,"end":8936.229,"text":"現在就是說我們6月份開始實施到實施我們1、2月之後我們就做一個統計第一個月大概就有47萬個小時大概有4700萬的這種報告"},{"start":8952.954,"end":8953.094,"text":"財團法人1"},{"start":8968.899,"end":8969.139,"text":"二、審查內政部部長"},{"start":8989.105,"end":8991.507,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9006.537,"end":9007.878,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9022.19,"end":9025.752,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9048.382,"end":9061.293,"text":"我們現在的進度就報到行政院了那行政院在審查的過程當中我們會把這個委員所提供的意見呢要求行政院能夠協助我們當時預計當時要來進行進度啊我們因為報到行政院行政院開會並不是我們來決定但是我們會來接受我們會來接受那謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":9076.974,"end":9097.38,"text":"好,我們請吳啟明委員。我們等一下丁薛忠委員執行完後,我們休息五分鐘。好,主席,我們一位的同仁,還有我們所有的聖母官員,請我們內政部部長,還有警政署署長。好,請部長署長。"},{"start":9103.502,"end":9105.564,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9133.722,"end":9138.687,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9150.878,"end":9151.679,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9170.673,"end":9172.855,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9186.758,"end":9188.96,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":9209.022,"end":9210.143,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":9240.322,"end":9254.709,"text":"市長,在此我也在此感謝你,包括在我的商區污水下水道,包括人行道的部分,在內政部過去的營建署和國土署,可以全力配合。"},{"start":9256.19,"end":9259.213,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9276.028,"end":9276.989,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9295.82,"end":9308.224,"text":"加速來處理啦,因為當然我知道地方有它的急迫性的需求,所以現在已經在積極排那個小組的審查會,我當然知道委員也有來吹過啦,所以我們會盡量趕緊合調委員的時間趕緊來處理啦。"},{"start":9311.025,"end":9318.346,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9341.055,"end":9342.977,"text":"好 請董事長好 發董事長因為針對我們的社債社債在我們的賴總統我們董事會承諾要達到25萬戶的社債25萬戶的包租貸款但是在這個部分我現在要請說"},{"start":9366.918,"end":9369.702,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9384.775,"end":9388.376,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9412.629,"end":9428.441,"text":"根文報告當然就今年底的目標8年20萬戶到今年底的目標應該是可以順利達標沒有問題那未來我們住戶中心應該可以每年再直接興建我們的目標是一年至少提供一萬五千戶"},{"start":9429.241,"end":9433.325,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9446.897,"end":9447.518,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9467.578,"end":9469.76,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9491.3,"end":9494.485,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9506.158,"end":9519.707,"text":"委員,我建議在你的社區內,若有已經在用的眷舍,已經沒有在使用的話,我們也會列入未來要興建社會住宅的主要目標。對。不一定是宿地。所以,委員,你若知道有這些空地是國有財產的部分,或是公有財產,請你提供給我們,我們來做評估。"},{"start":9525.951,"end":9532.235,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9562.065,"end":9588.875,"text":"感謝主席。我請我們的內政部長。請部長。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委員你好。阿丁委"},{"start":9589.375,"end":9590.897,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9611.958,"end":9617.361,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9635.107,"end":9636.289,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9653.126,"end":9653.547,"text":"二、審查內政部部長"},{"start":9671.548,"end":9672.409,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9688.131,"end":9696.798,"text":"報告委員,我們現在暗算是春節前的10天,春節前10天來發放,直接入入他們的口袖,對嗎?對,這好的進程,我們來實際執行,讓我們傳遞到,讓他們感受到我們中央對他們的美意。是,感謝委員。另外一個部分就是,我們有新增一個預算,是全社會防衛韌性訓練工作。"},{"start":9715.594,"end":9719.557,"text":"經費4億1千塊64元民防訓練工作貴卿2塊30元場地設置工程費3億2千塊34元場地設置設置在哪裡?"},{"start":9737.25,"end":9737.87,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9767.471,"end":9768.473,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9776.052,"end":9780.355,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":9801.789,"end":9804.792,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":9828.351,"end":9829.272,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":10272.591,"end":10291.225,"text":"好我們現在開始開會來我們請徐宇貞委員謝謝主席我們是不是請那個劉世芳劉部長請部長"},{"start":10297.313,"end":10319.002,"text":"徐委員長好部長好我想剛剛很多委員都在關心就是我們有一個在議政業務下面的全社會防衛任性訓練工作的一個計畫今年因為編列了4億1064萬6千元那請問部長這個全社會防衛任性訓練工作主要是要做些什麼"},{"start":10319.614,"end":10321.535,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10349.148,"end":10349.889,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":10372.128,"end":10380.165,"text":"三億三千零四四萬三億三千零四四萬六千元預算書上面是寫三億兩千八百三十四萬五千元"},{"start":10385.495,"end":10405.405,"text":"那針對這個部分我想那是我等一下要請教這個部長的我現在想要了解的是說我們這個全社會防衛任性訓練計畫除了剛剛提到的民防的訓練場地之外那請問這個訓練完成之後我想其實很多委員很關心的就是說未來會不會支援軍事行動不會"},{"start":10406.445,"end":10406.785,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":10436.545,"end":10438.926,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10465.016,"end":10489.921,"text":"維持社會民生核心功能的持續運作還有必要時支援軍事行動這三大目標請問這個部分的話請問賴總統提的我們要怎麼達成報告委員您所說的這三大目標也就是我們民防法裡面所規範的這個條文內容所以第一個維持政府的正常運作就是像我剛剛所說的第一個治安的維護還有防救災的維護"},{"start":10491.021,"end":10492.501,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":10510.506,"end":10512.188,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10526.661,"end":10529.082,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10550.632,"end":10551.673,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10568.232,"end":10571.515,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10591.892,"end":10618.491,"text":"因為其實當然這個部分的話就是我們希望的是說不要這個如果真的現在是有議政司那如果是要提供給民間的話希望也不要說只有給特定的單位希望如果未來有這樣的狀況的話我們希望說不要變成有給特定單位希望還是有議政司這邊來處理那另外還要再請教部長一個問題就是說我們警政署在114年度這個預算有增加了72億8585萬"},{"start":10621.893,"end":10644.221,"text":"其中光是設備跟投資經費就編列了55億1601萬請問一下部長因為警政署有說這筆的費用主要在用在科技系統的偵辦建制上也就是網路科技的運用的一個精進的計畫目前我們看到就是因為裡面並沒有概算分析表大概兩頁的文字就55億的預算請教一下部長"},{"start":10646.482,"end":10646.862,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10662.608,"end":10663.309,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10677.981,"end":10706.926,"text":"三大電信公司作為一個網路流量記錄保存平台也就是說可能兩年加起來可能就幾乎要上百億本席是認為這些業者是拿著政府所賦予的專屬的權利在賺錢而且以去年來說他們三家公司的盈利就高達5000億元所以是不是請問一下部長他們不應該協助政府來負起他們該有的社會責任嗎?為什麼我們建置這樣的流量的平台"},{"start":10707.626,"end":10725.022,"text":"還要付將近100億的費用。報告委員,它其實不是一個平台,它是一個機具。很多的系統。這是流量保存的一個紀錄品。這些全部都是由我們的官方單位,包括警政,或者是包括法務,或是包括海巡在內。"},{"start":10725.643,"end":10726.724,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10748.001,"end":10749.042,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10769.993,"end":10790.969,"text":"其實我們未來還是會走這個公共工程的這個採購的方式這個我們會要求用這樣的方式要考慮到公益性考慮到這個公益跟必要的部分不要說只為了賺錢那因為這三大業者其實也是幫助我們在處理這個網路的這個詐騙上面非常重要的一環所以我想他們很了解這個的必要性對"},{"start":10791.71,"end":10819.927,"text":"我想這個部分我們的目的是希望說打、打詐是我想今年通過大家都極力想要做那打詐的經費今年也變得很多可是我們覺得錢要花在刀口上那尤其是我們的這個三大經營公司他們賺了這麼多錢我們希望他善盡社會責任那能夠把這個部分的費用降低那也希望說大家一起來共同的來預防打詐那警政署很辛苦但是我覺得這個部分也要大家全力共同來支持好嗎好那再請部長謝謝"},{"start":10824.338,"end":10830.523,"text":"謝謝,我們感謝徐議貞委員質詢,我們請張鴻祿、張偉質詢。麻煩請部長請保證部長剛剛有各位委員質詢到喪屍病毒的問題我大概在半年前就有質詢過了而且我有具體的要求"},{"start":10854.224,"end":10855.806,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10870.327,"end":10874.028,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10893.395,"end":10896.617,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10903.905,"end":10908.167,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":10930.06,"end":10958.794,"text":"我現在剛問你說我那時候具體的要求我看你是一時間也不知道我具體的要求是什麼啦那我就跟你講你說要變二級毒品這個有做到上司煙彈這個很多都是在學校學生年輕人一般的刑事犯罪一般的什麼這是比較困難的"},{"start":10960.342,"end":10988.515,"text":"去校園在校園外然後賣給學生的這些藥頭我覺得不難吧你們應該有重點去查緝啊我那時候有要求啊那你們對不對我半年前就要求了你們也就跟我講結果咧今天有更多的立委在大家看到了這個問題我半年前就提醒你們了"},{"start":10989.955,"end":11000.661,"text":"結果呢這個半年你看更氾濫啊對不對如果今天這麼多立委也都在質詢更氾濫了我只有一句話就是說"},{"start":11002.492,"end":11028.641,"text":"年輕人很多人他都是賣給年輕人跟學校學生這個是很好查的啦很好去抓藥頭的啦你們應該要把重點放在這裡啦不要再講那些有的沒有的啦你們把這些抓起來這些藥頭我認為這個上司這個這個煙囊我跟你講就少了一半流通了啦"},{"start":11029.925,"end":11056.901,"text":"這點你們應該要去做嘛我半年前就講了嘛對不對我要請你們好好的做一下好不好好沒問題好謝謝那另外啊齁這個部長啊我們現在啊齁如果是社宅啊齁如果啦齁我簡單說啦就是有一個小孩的啊齁他齁可以6年啦齁可以再延長但有兩個的小孩的可以12年嘛"},{"start":11057.892,"end":11060.455,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":11073.766,"end":11074.447,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11091.82,"end":11093.861,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11115.726,"end":11117.526,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11147.604,"end":11167.059,"text":"那個早上蘇巧惠委員也有質詢我們上次有辦會刊去看那個淹水的部分一個很有趣的問題新北市政府講了一大堆什麼什麼的然後我記得我們有要去看福州地區的淹水"},{"start":11167.799,"end":11195.641,"text":"新北市政府說他們要做蓄水池啊然後要去借學校的場地啊我就覺得很奇怪啊他借的場地是我們國立的華僑中學我就去問校長啦他說沒有啊他們連公文什麼都沒有啊然後簡報上面說他們已經借好了跟學校都取得用地了"},{"start":11197.035,"end":11219.181,"text":"連公文都沒有發阿我如果不是後面去查去問阿咱怎麼會想說哇阿我們考什麼就給他們放棄阿署長這種問題你們發生的多不多阿應該通常都是我們比較擔心的是計劃合了就到最後做不出來阿因為那個其實那個反而對整個執行率來講不是不是"},{"start":11220.782,"end":11221.784,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11235.985,"end":11238.465,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11265.61,"end":11268.531,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11288.685,"end":11303.799,"text":"來給中央來要錢的這個下次這個縣市應該要打折扣啊你們的我從嚴審查之外如果有在做假補助要減少啊了解啊不然每個人都跟你騙騙你騙然後反正錢要大的執行率怎麼樣他也不管"},{"start":11304.582,"end":11306.964,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11334.497,"end":11338.56,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11347.625,"end":11360.648,"text":"因為本席認為說很多車輛懸掛偽造的車牌以造成治安上、交通上安全跟危害。那據統計113年上半年一共查獲1043輛車輛使用變造的車牌超過過去一整年924輛。"},{"start":11373.791,"end":11392.238,"text":"車輛懸掛假車牌就是故意違法的行為並不是無心之過我認為政府要硬起來政府要主動提出修法讓這些違法的人不敢再用假車牌我認為說懸掛假車牌的這些車輛部長跟署長你們站不在修法"},{"start":11399.878,"end":11401.499,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":11422.438,"end":11430.304,"text":"委員我們這已經有苦過火了,有人要朝委員你剛才講的政策方向去做做,就是要給他沒入啦。對啦,我認為署長,部長你有同意嗎?同意啊,我們會用這個方式要求道教條例的選擇。"},{"start":11442.913,"end":11447.576,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11472.774,"end":11475.255,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11501.408,"end":11502.809,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11519.674,"end":11536.624,"text":"就是要蓋社宅那其實齁因為那個地方水源路那個很窄不適合啦他現在有做一個就是熱活實驗基地齁很多人每個禮拜甚至於每一天都有活動那永和地宅人籌"},{"start":11537.824,"end":11540.766,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11566.8,"end":11567.36,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":11586.63,"end":11598.335,"text":"有件事因為地方民意代表知己及村里長的事務補助條例今年6月立法院剛三讀通過第7至1條村里長任職滿6屆而且滿65歲應給以慰勞金及表揚"},{"start":11605.498,"end":11609.719,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11635.051,"end":11637.314,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":11650.071,"end":11652.173,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11679.292,"end":11681.593,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11700.64,"end":11706.246,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11718.678,"end":11746.571,"text":"其實齁你也可以不必去擔那個責任我想我提出來啊你會覺得說啊你怎麼有這個想法我跟你說新加坡是在我們的旁邊隔壁不遠啦他們齁不但是判刑還要加邊刑那你認為說邊刑不行講邊刑齁那些人權團體又來抗議啦但是我們可以公投因為這三樣而已這三樣你如果做我幫你保證所有刑法裡面最少減三成以上"},{"start":11747.771,"end":11755.212,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11773.496,"end":11783.763,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11801.295,"end":11804.537,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":11831.45,"end":11844.329,"text":"來來好我現在請黃金豪委員好謝謝我們主席喔那我們先請我們劉部長還有請國土署吳署長好請部長跟署長"},{"start":11852.039,"end":11852.5,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11871.914,"end":11883.914,"text":"部長,這個居住生育當然是每一任政府的這個核心問題,尤其近代的房價上漲。那我想問一下,我們用住宅基金去做補貼房租,那他最後他希望達到什麼樣的政策目的?"},{"start":11884.517,"end":11901.143,"text":"第一個剛剛委員有提到居住正義但是大一部分我們的租金補貼的對象應該是年輕人那年輕人對於居住正義的這個需求當然是相當的大那當然了我們現在運用的那個住宅基金的部分也是合乎我們住宅法裡面相關的規定"},{"start":11902.421,"end":11923.759,"text":"我知道我說你你們推動這個這麼多的這個住宅租金補貼你希望用這筆錢那最後能夠達到什麼成效我想委員所垂詢的部分非常的正確第一個我們在土地租金還有就是包租代管還有直接興建住宅我們很希望未來的年輕人在他事業有成或者成家立業之後呢"},{"start":11924.159,"end":11925.281,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11936.943,"end":11964.619,"text":"好部長謝謝因為我們要先講明年住宅基金裡面多數的錢多數的這個錢都拿去做這個住宅補貼了就拿去做租屋補貼了所以在這個興建設宅的部分我想跟一開始的政策目標設定是有一定程度的落差那當然這今天我沒有時間跟你們討論這個議題我們先回到講這個住宅租金補貼的問題租金補貼到底有沒有造成房租上漲那國土部署在之前上個月兩個月前有回應過說其實他們覺得沒有但實際上"},{"start":11965.831,"end":11969.592,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":11988.513,"end":11991.076,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12001.55,"end":12005.734,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12026.192,"end":12027.052,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12042.714,"end":12071.531,"text":"房客換約的時候房東漲他房租這有在你們的這個所謂的申訴的這個範圍裡面嗎所以重點就是說他當時在這過程當中所提出的理由因為我們的確在之前不管是一些媒體的報導或是有的反應的確是說因為房東是基於這個理由要跟他漲租所以他才會覺得不合理是這個原因所以我們認為如果是這樣的狀況其實是違反定情化契約的規定那所以這個部分是可以提出來的"},{"start":12072.917,"end":12073.978,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12095.882,"end":12110.035,"text":"定租金補貼出來之後導致房租上漲這件事情你們說本就6%但實際上我們看一下整個整體數字這個是整理明天就整理了2022年7月實施之後到現在滿兩年了"},{"start":12111.516,"end":12135.65,"text":"六都裡面當然除了台南房租有稍微下跌之外我想不然台北新北桃園新竹縣新竹市台中市多數的房租它都是上漲的上漲非常多最高的漲幅在新竹縣達到兩成桃園市給快兩成那台北市3%新北市13.2其他的漲幅都非常多所以你們的6%這件事情到底怎麼來的說明一下好了"},{"start":12135.99,"end":12155.064,"text":"其實這整個房租上漲當然它的理由跟對象是很多那事實上今天能夠來申請租金補貼的其實它的房型大概都是比較中古老舊的第二個呢它的這一個可以符合申請對象的其實它的收入都有一定的限制我想這些房東會在這樣的狀況下其實不太會去漲租"},{"start":12157.586,"end":12158.427,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12174.955,"end":12194.094,"text":"我還是要回到一開始問部長的問題啦我們推動這個租金補貼的核心目的是希望短暫的這段時間讓他過渡嘛那最後他能夠擁有自己的所謂的自己能夠買得起房子能夠住得起房子嘛但如果租金補貼所謂定毛效應導致房租可能被市場已經有一個價位在那邊了"},{"start":12194.855,"end":12196.257,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12209.87,"end":12212.171,"text":"四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":12229.159,"end":12246.088,"text":"提到的這些所謂過渡階段我讓你能夠住得起房子更何況如果沒有辦法申請到租金補貼的人他會因為這個政策受害他整個房租整個上漲上來我沒有反而沒申請到結果我還受到政策所害所以這部分我們希望內政部要做個通盤的整體檢討好不好好謝謝好請徐慶豐委員"},{"start":12261.022,"end":12263.704,"text":"謝謝主席本席請劉部長請部長部長好今天本席雖然沒有都一直聆聽前面委員的質詢但是我這個不時的就聽到大家非常關心打炸毒品危害台灣的問題"},{"start":12287.245,"end":12308.947,"text":"本席在這邊首先要對我們這個打詐的各個單位特別是我們警察特別表示對警察的辛苦給予12萬分的敬意但是我們從很多的新聞我們也看到譬如說我們看到警察所以我們對所有的警察我們是肯定的"},{"start":12309.528,"end":12320.15,"text":"但是我們不時的看到一些個案看到一些個案警察洩民眾的個資給詐騙集團部長您知道有這類的事情嗎?"},{"start":12321.344,"end":12325.009,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12340.727,"end":12368.541,"text":"警察卸個資給詐騙集團。甚至我們除了三重,三重有一位李姓警員替詐騙集團查個資。再來,臺北市中山分局建國派出所有一位駱姓的警員,他也和律師甚至新北市的里長所組成的犯罪集團勾結。"},{"start":12369.582,"end":12372.204,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12396.884,"end":12414.073,"text":"包括之前有很多包括我們刑警大隊長洩密給博弈集團我相信您一定知道這個那麼大另外還有涉嫌吞張款甚至喝花酒包庇地下會隊等等"},{"start":12416.412,"end":12442.969,"text":"這麼多的這些案件出來其實民眾很擔心甚至有人也質詢毒品的問題我們的警察紀律就是說很多很辛苦的警察本席要在這邊再三強調我們是最支持警察而且非常肯定我們警察的辛勞那但是我不知道我們現在整個警政系統我們的督察室我們的督察系統整個失靈了嗎為什麼一直層出不窮"},{"start":12443.869,"end":12444.811,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12455.306,"end":12484.232,"text":"第一個我想這樣的個案繼續層出不窮的話第一個我們在警政的紀律上面要加強之外那目前有怎麼做因為這已經一直發生了剛您所說的部分第一個個資外洩是一個最重要的部分那個資外洩大概在限制於說這個警員他自己能不能透過他自己的公權力去查看不是屬於他職權範圍內的個資沒錯這一個現在已經開始有落實了嗎我就問有或沒有開始了沒有"},{"start":12485.032,"end":12501.628,"text":"有,我們現在目前是主動在做集合,就是說大量的集合,不管是在督查政風資訊,都是在集合大量的資料,包括有沒有異常的狀況。這一塊是一部分,更大一部分。"},{"start":12502.449,"end":12524.135,"text":"不斷的跟外面的包括很多的蟑螂跟詐騙集團跟所有危害民眾生命財產安全的這些壞人勾結。這個情況怎麼辦?層出不窮啊。我敢說全國的立委一定都接話過。如果說有這些狀況我們是絕對是支持緊急請辦。我們一定會嚴格辦到底。"},{"start":12526.576,"end":12527.657,"text":"有關失聯移工的事情您知不知道?"},{"start":12553.331,"end":12555.673,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12570.966,"end":12575.749,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12599.002,"end":12601.383,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12624.764,"end":12625.685,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12641.425,"end":12646.007,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12670.742,"end":12673.363,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":12688.857,"end":12689.538,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12709.071,"end":12710.952,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12724.497,"end":12728.298,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12748.203,"end":12759.874,"text":"所以你們在這個就業服務法裡面就是有關失聯移工的部分有一個第二項第60條第一項的第二款"},{"start":12761.24,"end":12768.741,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12786.425,"end":12788.546,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12812.412,"end":12818.616,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12842.129,"end":12853.018,"text":"警政署內政部後來我們所有委員我們也覺得其實還跟其他有關但是就是太慢了跨部會的整合太慢部長你也可以跟行政院講嗎"},{"start":12854.599,"end":12857.963,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12875.922,"end":12880.663,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12900.835,"end":12913.72,"text":"我們會來檢討改進但是我還是強調這是跨部會的問題不是只有移民署單獨可以承諾失聯一共那因為你們是第一線嘛第一線總是要想辦法我們是最尾端跟最下游"},{"start":12916.394,"end":12917.075,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12932.429,"end":12934.591,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12952.703,"end":12955.925,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":12985.168,"end":13009.449,"text":"主席有請部長好請部長部長好2018年公投並大選然後當年的選務延宕那有兩大因素第一個就是中選會沒有事前規劃週延然後四中也沒有有效因應加以排除你認同嗎"},{"start":13013.598,"end":13018.926,"text":"委員你講的意見我們有看到媒體有報導有報導只是媒體報導嗎你認不認同"},{"start":13020.986,"end":13046.815,"text":"我覺得並不完全排除這些因素但是不是只有這兩個因素這兩個因素誰講的你知道吧這句話不是我講的你知道誰講的嗎賴清德總統講的我不清楚賴清德在2018年的這個公投並大選結束之後召開的檢討他特別批評今天就是中選會事前未能規劃周延事終未能有效加以排除"},{"start":13048.544,"end":13068.752,"text":"那我要跟部長說啊那當年這個所謂的公投並大選的選務延宕的問題啊還造成一個很大的一個政治後果就是陳英前主委下台嘛對不對他也為此請辭下台啊對齁然後我們賴清德當時是行政院院長他也要求就是政府部門要提出檢討嘛對不對好我告訴你你知道檢討結果是什麼嗎"},{"start":13075.56,"end":13096.438,"text":"抱歉,因為2018的時候我並不在行政機關,所以我並不清楚最後檢討的結果跟結論。非常好,我覺得你這個態度是對的。你之前我質詢李進勇,我覺得你的態度比他對多了。你不知道事你就說不知道就好。檢討的結果就是2019年就把公投跟大選拆掉了,拆開了,最審視嘛。"},{"start":13097.955,"end":13115.183,"text":"所以我要特別要講那我就要回到你的部分了上週內政委員會討論公投法修正案我看內政部報告說修正回覆全國性公民投票與選舉同日舉行投票是與選民期待跟意向並不相符我想請問您您的依據是什麼"},{"start":13116.581,"end":13136.867,"text":"我想我們在跟委員報告就是我們在跟很多地方政府交換過意見之後確實也認為說如果公投跟一般的所謂的大選就是總統的選舉一起舉行的話呢在選務上面的確實會造成地方政府上面尤其是選務人員啊那個很多的這個工作上的壓力所以我們認為呢不要合併會比較好你說選務問題啊我想請問啊你今天辦總統大選辛苦不辛苦啊"},{"start":13146.204,"end":13157.69,"text":"中選會跟各地方的選務人員是非常的辛苦當然很辛苦啊那會不會因為選務辛苦你就跟我講說我們就不用辦大選還是讓總統來選 延續40年再選一次總統我想這個是兩種不同層次上面的我告訴你選舉創制 法律上面的規範選舉罷免創制複決都是人民憲政權利吧"},{"start":13170.663,"end":13196.741,"text":"所以換言之今天當我們出現選務上的負擔的時候當然我可以我可以理解我們可以精進選務甚至在包括說比方說我看民眾黨在公投法修正裡面就有把說10張選票就是把所有的公投事項列為同一張選票免得重複一直在領票過程當中延宕的時間或者你今天把所謂的先做所謂的一般選舉的投開票再做所謂的公投投開票"},{"start":13197.501,"end":13198.942,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13220.902,"end":13224.104,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13239.249,"end":13257.447,"text":"中選委主委直接跟我講說是因為2021年的公投四大公投裡面公投綁大選的公投沒有通過所以代表人民的民意否決它你比它還好一點點之所以沒有通過是因為我們的公投的門檻是多少"},{"start":13258.8,"end":13264.186,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13276.513,"end":13300.544,"text":"因為今天民進黨當初提出公投並大選一個很重要主張就是公投大選拆開來必然導致投票率下降就會使得公投案基本上是不會通過這個事情就在2021年發生發生之後對2023年每兩年一次公投法去年公投年我想請問部長你知道剩下多少提案通過嗎提案的只提案嘛不講投票通過提案數是多少"},{"start":13302.256,"end":13307,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13325.256,"end":13334.252,"text":"因為公投通過的機率基本上幾乎不可能的時候到2023年沒有任何人提公投提案通過啦連提案都沒有啦"},{"start":13335.566,"end":13361.222,"text":"所以這是為什麼今天我們在談所謂公投併大選最後做一個簡單的總結你剛剛講沒有你們的報告就說沒有民意基礎很抱歉啊那個新國會智庫的民調我們委託趨勢民調公司做的民調66.3%的民眾是支持恢復公投併大選只有21.3%不支持人民的公投權是民進黨心心念念的人民的權利我希望部長能夠放在心上以上謝謝"},{"start":13369.186,"end":13369.867,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請劉世芳部長部長"},{"start":13389.863,"end":13401.012,"text":"本席有看到您在10月12號的時候有跟我們耕州燒老防治的推動諮詢小組合影,然後施行耕燒法施行兩年,成效良好嗎?"},{"start":13408.151,"end":13434.825,"text":"事情很多那是我們的新聘委員那我們謝謝他們過去一段時間的幫忙我還想說要給部長有個這個打廣告的一個機會因為耕燒法上路兩年我們在2021年的時候共同推動那也希望是說能夠嚇阻這樣子的一個耕種燒老的一個犯罪樣態但部長有沒有注意到最近有耕燒法的這個有可能的一個犯罪狀況"},{"start":13435.825,"end":13439.507,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13465.439,"end":13489.52,"text":"部長這只是冰山一角啊因為李多惠他是一個公眾人物知名人物所以說他開直播然後大家有關心也認為是說本席第一時間看到我們也不知道說他到底是誰啊有可能以為的是譬如說愛慕者有可能以為是這個粉絲但是比較激進的方式那後來即便你講是說有可能他是這個媒體朋友但不管怎麼樣他是不是符合根梢的一個要件"},{"start":13490,"end":13492.903,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13502.078,"end":13525.236,"text":"報告委員其實我們已經有7000多案是警察機關受理的到目前為止所以表示說其實跟騷法從這個立法院三讀通過上路以來確實它有達到一定的效果而且呢八成以上的跟騷行為我先請教李都會這個案件符不符合跟騷法的一個保護要件我想應該由警政機關來認定比較好不是由我來認定好吧"},{"start":13525.956,"end":13530.238,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13546.36,"end":13571.491,"text":"因為不管是李多惠不管是任何的一個公眾人物我覺得台灣很寶貴的地方是在於是說我們的民主法治那我們也希望是說不要讓任何人來到台灣之後覺得是說他有心生畏懼然後感覺好像有不好的一個印象我覺得這都會牽一髮而動全身尤其是我們現在觀光的部分蠻多的韓國的自由行的旅客也會來到台灣所以這一點是不是應該要加強來做一個這個防範"},{"start":13574.292,"end":13596.15,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒我想您提到了就是說可能我們台灣一半的一部分的民眾都知道有跟騷法但是如果是外國觀光客來的時候可能有這方面的困難那我們是不是來跟交通部的觀光署或者是說跟我們外交部的同仁一起來看看怎麼樣做比較好的宣導就是台灣是有跟騷法如果他認為有這樣子的一個困擾的時候可以跟我們警政機關來做投訴"},{"start":13597.796,"end":13623.738,"text":"好謝謝部長那部長另外一個部分我想今天那個國土署跟我們駐都董事長是不是也有過來來我們簡單再請教一下部長兩年前111年12月本席跟內政委員會委員來考察新北地區社會住宅的重大公共工程當時我們就針對就是以前世大運選手村也是現在我們量體最大的一個社會住宅"},{"start":13624.218,"end":13650.285,"text":"我就有要求說應該是要成立不管是官方的賴群組能夠適時的回應住戶的一個問題或者是社會住宅冷氣的部分應該要變更能暖變平跟高節能的一個冷氣為什麼那兩年前會這樣子提是因為那個時候我們看到2017年的世大運選手村當時採購的冷氣居然並不是所謂的變平冷氣而"},{"start":13652.585,"end":13659.929,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13678.123,"end":13696.241,"text":"社會住宅的問題其實現在讓大家會覺得是說好像爆發很多的一個負面新聞更重要的是現在居然還有這個民眾陳情反應是說不管是我們董事長好像也都對於住宅的這些住戶的反應不聞不問部長有沒有掌握到這樣的消息"},{"start":13698.422,"end":13704.004,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13727.552,"end":13737.048,"text":"三位委員前往到我們的社宅我今天也不只是針對林口世大運的社宅我認為是說我們所有全國的社宅我們都應該要統一一樣的標準"},{"start":13739.827,"end":13766.322,"text":"我們的社宅有中央政府也有地方政府是那中央政府的標準尤其是我們有住都中心所以應該是要帶頭示範啊您記不記得3個月前您也才來我們林口凍土、剪採本席也陪同啊因為我們林口另外一個社宅也要再新建啊那但是社宅的管理新建是一個部分我們大家沒有反對但是新建完之後的管理以及居住裡面的一個狀況"},{"start":13767.583,"end":13789.551,"text":"包括說現在還有一般戶轉成弱勢戶的續約爭議其實這個爭議從今年3月都有住都中心也有住都中心的解釋那但是現在針對民眾的反應持續的沒有辦法獲得解決跟改善的時候這只會讓這樣子好像是壓力鍋一樣越悶越大部長好我們來檢討改進那個委員所提到的問題我們會一一來檢討"},{"start":13791.994,"end":13794.176,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13820.635,"end":13822.056,"text":"四、審查內政委員會內政委員會內政委員會內政委員會內政委員會內政委員會內政委員會"},{"start":13839.648,"end":13841.569,"text":"三、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":13862.404,"end":13888.579,"text":"各位委員這絕對是有誤解因為冷氣當然有它的使用壽命嘛那當時2017年沒錯嘛你們講的就是說因為它有使用壽命財產編號所以說我不能現在換那你使用壽命到的時候才能換那民眾自己講是說我現在這高耗能的我就不想用我想要自己花錢換才不能換我覺得這可以討論這個可能都有誤解這部分都可以溝通可能是某人的某些施加出法嘛我講事實"},{"start":13890.16,"end":13893.642,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13908.827,"end":13929.978,"text":"兩年前就應該可以處理的問題不會說拖到現在還沒有處理嘛本席就說111年的時候我們就一起去現場做座談做會刊做考察那怎麼會兩年後還有這樣的問題持續發生委員我想這是官方機構所碰到的困擾啦他自己買了冷氣以後兩年以後這個冷氣是他自己帶走嗎"},{"start":13931.462,"end":13932.983,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":13962.314,"end":13975.677,"text":"有號有號有號委員不在黃國昌黃國昌黃國昌委員不在何靖汝何靖汝何靖汝何靖汝委員不在陳淑儀陳淑儀陳淑儀陳淑儀委員不在陳雪生陳雪生陳雪生委員不在鄭振賢鄭振賢鄭振賢委員不在請張雅玲委員我們有剪報筆嗎"},{"start":14010.485,"end":14011.247,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請部長。"},{"start":14019.251,"end":14048.496,"text":"專委員好部長好我想就是幾個禮拜前我們一起去看那個在國家男子那邊有個都會公園好的開幕這樣子那我想那個部長也非常清楚接下來我們台積電要進駐啦可是我們那邊人潮會越來越多可是我們相對那邊附近的公園只有那一座然後還有幼昌然後還有另外一座是正在蓋的總共只有三座那我在想說我們是不是因為部地看起來是還有的我們是不是可以來爭取第二期的預算呢"},{"start":14049.036,"end":14052.179,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14080.097,"end":14099.635,"text":"好全副就是說我想跟部長說明一下我自己的版本跟法那個院版的差異主要是在我在條文裡面加入了貴金屬的定義還有受害者可以透過專戶來請領補償金那我想我們先從貴金屬來講就是說我詢問過全副會實務上當我們碰到受害者的侵害"},{"start":14100.216,"end":14128.859,"text":"如果是黃金或白銀的時候會先確認它是一個什麼樣子的形式比如是金項鍊或是銀戒指等等等等的我們就會用第16條的第二項第二款12條第一項第二款來去賠償它但是部長不知道有沒有發現到第一款現金的部分如果當事人被搶奪的財物從我們的史料很多來看是有金條銀條的那是不是就有適用第一條的可能性"},{"start":14130.799,"end":14157.301,"text":"可能性很高,但是我是不是請主辦機關來跟委員回應一下好嗎?報告委員,其實目前的一個定義,現金已經把金條、戒指等貴金屬性包含在內,其實可以不修的話已經列入了。你是說現在是用現金嗎?現在是用現金,還是用藝術品及首飾的部分呢?"},{"start":14158.781,"end":14186.093,"text":"黃金白銀這些都已經包含在內不管是金條或金氏可是金條跟金氏現在應該是用藝術品跟手勢的方式來處理也可以因為都是在第1條在16條裡面的第一款第一項跟第二項所以應該都是算在內都是包括在內所以我們目前是都已經包含在內了是好那我們把它增定出來把它名列出來貴金屬的部分這部分會有什麼樣子的疑慮嗎"},{"start":14187.649,"end":14190.811,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14213.386,"end":14213.807,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14225.356,"end":14232.042,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14246.596,"end":14250.678,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14271.269,"end":14272.77,"text":"三、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":14293.746,"end":14313.635,"text":"法務委員我們沒有規定的原因也就是說當事人如果沒有這些餘力他用他現有的帳戶就可以領取那這樣子的話可以增加他便利性那如果有這種餘力的他自然可以以他專門的但是在我們現在的法律上面沒有沒有他並不一定曉得他有這樣的餘裕"},{"start":14315.462,"end":14339.54,"text":"沒有規定的話他當然可以專門的帳戶來做處理那未來舉證也比較方便但是因為他是一次性的一個舉付現有的其他多數的民眾可能沒有這種疑慮他就用現有的帳戶來處理就可以了那如果有這種疑慮的他可以另外再專門的帳戶來處理在法律上沒有規定也可以做"},{"start":14340.02,"end":14342.484,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14355.171,"end":14383.789,"text":"就是說我知道說內政部其實有一個叫做內政部推動威權象徵處置補助作業要點但我調了一下資料從2023年到現在只有91案的補助案那我覺得這個我們的預算明明有1795案這個金額其實比人權管還要來的多可是我們申請案卻沒有這麼多是因為我們宣傳管道不清楚嗎還是怎麼樣為什麼申請的案件這麼少"},{"start":14385.812,"end":14411.084,"text":"那個補助的威權象徵處理的補助其實是威權象徵的一個處置跟那個勤領那個被賠償的那個部分是不一樣的我知道是另外一個是我說補助因為我們現在這個是一個你可以來申請補助案嘛然後去拆全一些可能拆除銅像啦對不對但是我想問一下這個補助案是只能拆除銅像嗎還是有一般的"},{"start":14411.864,"end":14420.852,"text":"包含社會溝通、改名命名、空間的改變,這些都是我們補助的一個範圍。問題是我們的申請案件相對人權管來說比較少,大多數團體都還不曉得內政部,這個部分不只包含拆除同項,也可以來申請社會溝通?是,我們有跟相關的社會團體開過三次說明會,跟他們來做溝通申請。"},{"start":14439.607,"end":14458.699,"text":"對那我想那我就如果我們都已經開過溝通那為什麼大家還是沒有來申請那是不是可以一個月之後提供給我一個檢討報告我們來了解如何再精進那最後再提一下因為這面的補助上限是10萬元那我們基本上還有非常多的威權的同項沒有辦法移除那我自己在學校我們在做這些公園遊戲場的拆除"},{"start":14460.8,"end":14462.201,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":14483.841,"end":14487.403,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14511.118,"end":14511.258,"text":"請吳立凰委員"},{"start":14546.863,"end":14551.873,"text":"謝謝主席有請內政部長還有副政司請部長副政司長"},{"start":14559.647,"end":14587.565,"text":"部長好首先我想先謝謝一下部長跟國土署因為我在這次的院會總質詢有去提到就是如果明年國土計畫法上路我們的建物的用地合法化之後明年可以去縣市政府去做建物的合法化登記但是可能會面臨很巨額的一個費用那這個部分呢謝謝"},{"start":14589.426,"end":14592.027,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":14604.572,"end":14606.173,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":14621.542,"end":14623.263,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14639.693,"end":14642.095,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14665.811,"end":14689.085,"text":"原住民語言發展法早就說這個不叫羅馬拼音這個叫做原住民族文字所以我們可以來單列原住民族文字那也可以用並列就是漢名跟我們的原住民族文字也可以用湯西字典我們的漢字的一個音譯也可以漢字音譯加我們的原住民族文字"},{"start":14689.565,"end":14690.506,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14705.374,"end":14707.915,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14729.071,"end":14731.412,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14747.757,"end":14748.959,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14763.757,"end":14765.038,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14784.207,"end":14786.61,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14799.446,"end":14802.587,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14826.315,"end":14844.074,"text":"希望第一個問題就是教育訓練第二個呢像這個韓式應該也要廢除再來就是我們跨部會的系統整合也要趕快處理還有一些涉及到原住民身份法、民法這一些是不是部會溝通的進度那我其實在9月已經開過協調會啦我是想要知道進度如何"},{"start":14851.021,"end":14866.366,"text":"委員有三個提問的部分有關於91年的內政部那個函是我們在11月的時候會廢止那其他有關這個互證人員或是其他相關部會的這個系統整合的進度我是不是請我們司長來回應一下好嗎"},{"start":14868.85,"end":14890.079,"text":"有關這個資訊系統部分我們在5月17號今年5月23號已經邀請相關機關有召開一個會議那請各機關要調整他的資訊系統姓名欄位大概目前已經有請機關陸陸續續在做板根了是以上說明好謝謝都有進度那主席再給我1分鐘我想要邀請國家公園署"},{"start":14893.02,"end":14897.604,"text":"部長我簡單這樣講因為我進來立法院是2020年109年我第一個月就接到一個陳情就是我們花蓉萬榮鄉有一個叫摩里沙卡部落他希望可以跟我們的林田山做實質的共管那很感謝這些年來確實都真正的參與決策也真正的參與林田山的整個工作經營"},{"start":14916.277,"end":14918.898,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14939.73,"end":14942.534,"text":"因為他們聽到我們賴清德總統他有一個政見叫原住民落實自治那麼他們也就在今年的1月28號內政部已經核准成立臺灣太魯閣族的自治協會他們想要爭取"},{"start":14954.81,"end":14956.751,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":14973.84,"end":14974.801,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":14996.022,"end":15020.872,"text":"跟委員報告有關他們自治的這個想法目前是還在醞釀當中那我們也都多方在聽取意見在公管會議上面也都曾經提過那這部分我們會來瞭解看看目前的話我們是希望說用比較走社區合作營造的這個方式先大家凝聚共識他們也要求我近期來做一個跨部會的會議啦我到時候再邀請好不好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席"},{"start":15029.053,"end":15029.414,"text":"陳佩玉議員"},{"start":15052.499,"end":15074.078,"text":"部長無安辛苦了有一個議題快速跟您討論我知道可能有一些實質上的困難但我想經過今天的討論我們也許可以想一想後續我們可以怎麼解決我們現在看到這個困境好來下一頁就是關於這個黑名單受監控的恢復的時間我們來看一下目前在監察院去年的報告裡面提出糾正那這個糾正的內容是這樣的"},{"start":15075.859,"end":15087.109,"text":"他指出國民黨政府在解嚴甚至是刑法100條廢除之後依然持續監控人民而有所謂的為民專案把反對政府反對國民黨還有主張臺灣獨立的海外留學生還有華僑指為叛國分子"},{"start":15091.693,"end":15093.694,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15109.338,"end":15113.159,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15139.246,"end":15143.57,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15163.47,"end":15164.451,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15193.43,"end":15195.173,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15208.894,"end":15233.881,"text":"所以不管是促轉正義或者是說我們提到有關國家不法或者二二八基金會其實也都希望可以從過去這段時間裡面不管是被監控被壓迫然後沒有受到這個民主這個政治上面洗洗禮的這些人的不法行為或者是這個不符合我們現在法治上行為的人我們都很希望他能夠把這些案例提供給我們參考"},{"start":15235.161,"end":15257.034,"text":"提供給我們參考的話我想我們的國家不只是內政部所屬的幾個基金會包括在其他的基金會或者是行政院下面所屬的人權委會都有相關的問題那總結來看也就是說台灣是一個有法治有人權的國家那這些當時以國家的力量來迫害人民的權利的部分它慢慢就浮現出來"},{"start":15257.654,"end":15259.275,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15284.173,"end":15300.518,"text":"也就是要拜託部長支持把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權力回復條例的適用者納入受國家監控及剝奪工作反鄉權職人士就是我剛舉的這些案例那如同部長說的一定會有更多的案例浮現再來也希望部長支持並且討論"},{"start":15302.299,"end":15329.389,"text":"把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例的適用範圍擴及到第一次政黨輪替之前也就是西元2000年以確保所有受國家暴力監控以及限制人身自由的受害者皆能回復其權利那我自己必須承認這個事情我們都還需要更多的討論跟社會的共識但是如果我們有這個意識要回復他們的權利跟相關的名聲我相信在後續的修法討論我們應該還有一些空間是嗎?部長"},{"start":15333.479,"end":15353.095,"text":"我剛有提到台灣是一個憲政法治的國家如果我們在法律上修正不管是要把他時間延長或者是受國家監控剝奪他的工作反鄉權的人士放在法律裡面站在我們行政部門的話不管是哪一個部會我想我們就會全力支持"},{"start":15354.135,"end":15355.936,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":15383.487,"end":15396.344,"text":"快點快點快點楊委員楊委員我們快點謝謝那部長既然你站著你就站著吧"},{"start":15399.202,"end":15427.132,"text":"議員好辛苦了我們就今天是預算的討論我們就預算來說議政業務你114年降下你編列了全社會防衛韌性訓練工作那這個部分呢你編了4.1億多那本期要請教要做什麼呢具體的課程是什麼呢找誰來上課呢對於替代役的任務你的新的規劃是什麼"},{"start":15428.292,"end":15444.082,"text":"報告委員其實我們的訓練項目規範跟範圍並沒有做太大的轉變只是讓它更精進更現代化那裡面多邊出來的部分第一個就是在中州技術學院在我們跟配合私校退場條例中州的部分要退場"},{"start":15444.963,"end":15446.004,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15466.022,"end":15469.404,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15493.598,"end":15495.1,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":15509.719,"end":15513.32,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15537.907,"end":15539.788,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15567.623,"end":15586.951,"text":"有嗎?還是按照民防法的規定大概有兩個替代役會比較多的精進作為一個是治安維護然後另外一個是屬於這個在消防替代役上面包括做緊急救護的工作那這個裡面還分成兩個層次一個是現役的替代役一個是被役的替代役"},{"start":15588.22,"end":15588.78,"text":"二、審查內政部部長"},{"start":15604.626,"end":15608.551,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15624.724,"end":15629.988,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15647.54,"end":15649.441,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15672.878,"end":15674.318,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15699.724,"end":15701.305,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":15727.625,"end":15728.105,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":15747.06,"end":15750.102,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15769.073,"end":15770.894,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15794.96,"end":15796.1,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15816.286,"end":15819.127,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":15840.283,"end":15844.986,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15869.741,"end":15890.229,"text":"提供寶貴提供你的書面資料給本席嗎跟給委員會嗎好不好謝謝好請吳宗興委員謝謝主席麻煩請部長好請部長"},{"start":15893.394,"end":15911.839,"text":"部長你好我現在主要是要跟你請教幾個問題我先提到就是政府存在的目的本來就是要讓人民好好的生活而不是說更辛苦那我自己以前念那個吳定老師他的談到那個公共行政的書籍的時候其實他有提到"},{"start":15912.822,"end":15913.822,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15936.328,"end":15937.709,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":15962.233,"end":15982.888,"text":"三十年前這可能是一個非常熱鬧的地方但現在它可能是一片荒蕪嘛那這個很多東西是否要解編這個一定要跟著時代的速度在走所以我剛說的那三個指標吳定老師那三個指標我們在看說到底解編的這個問題是行政怠惰還是全國案量過大這可能請部長要稍微也要了解一下這個問題啦否則啊"},{"start":15985.389,"end":16010.891,"text":"當初為了一些公共的利益而去做了這些保留地位徵收的這個問題其實一卡都卡好幾代就反而限制了土地所有權能的利用那這個對他們其實是是有傷害因為當初告訴他們說這些土地我們要為了公共利益去設設施一些停車場啦公園啦道路啦就這段時間都沒有做就這地就空在那裡"},{"start":16011.431,"end":16015.134,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16036.909,"end":16040.83,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16058.317,"end":16059.398,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":16073.971,"end":16076.555,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16090.532,"end":16116.305,"text":"報告委員這個個案我不是那麼清楚但是我先跟委員報告一下公有地的解編確實是一個行政上面要拖非常長的時間我自己也協助過高雄的部分那宜蘭的部分是不是請國土署署長跟您回應一下好嗎請說跟委員報告那宜蘭的部分它一共有22個這個都市計畫的部分那有19個已經都公開展覽了那接著跟委員報告我們都19個過幾個"},{"start":16126.534,"end":16145.909,"text":"有6個已經修正也有發布了那剩下13個還在審查那跟委員報告因為有時候的確因為我們這裡面解編以後有需要他們提出一些勢力重劃的一個可能性評估那往往在地方政府可能對這一塊他可能在進度上會比較慢"},{"start":16146.77,"end":16165.59,"text":"所以他只要確認那一個部分可行我們其實都會很快幫他結案但是你知道嗎人民那些民眾他們覺得縣政府已經做了這個調查希望幫助他解編嘛但是從縣政府的角度他認為說卡在中央然後民眾就對縣政府有意見那縣政府也告訴民眾說卡在中央"},{"start":16166.01,"end":16187.044,"text":"跟委員報告其實這裡面都有一些關鍵點也就是說當你提出來的這些解決方案其實是需要在財務上指引上要提出可能性的評估因為我們也擔心說像過去一起也辦過結果辦完以後地方政府拖了二三十年也沒有處理所以我們這一次的審查是要求你要把可行性方案提出來也經過我們確認我們才會同意"},{"start":16188.645,"end":16192.61,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16205.356,"end":16206.197,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16226.519,"end":16227.839,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16248.464,"end":16250.265,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16276.5,"end":16295.749,"text":"所以這一點我們還是會持續來要求因為有些縣像有些縣市也是回去以後就放了4年他也沒拿出來部長就這樣啦嚴格把關沒有錯我也認同這個點但是一個把關不能是效率不好的一個代名詞不能這樣好不好我會把這個宜蘭的部分進度給你了解我們也會繼續追這個問題啦因為我四處我都看到相同的這個狀況在那邊"},{"start":16301.632,"end":16302.013,"text":"二、審查內政部部長"},{"start":16324.651,"end":16350.689,"text":"來各位我們中午不休息繼續開會那登記法院委員除不在場者外其餘經已發言完畢,詢答結束那委員高津素美所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會討論事項所列審查內政部及所屬單位預算案等"},{"start":16351.309,"end":16367.37,"text":"相關預算提案請於113年11月20日星期三下午5點前送至內政委員會會診,以利後續審查作業進行。另外本期在此宣告"},{"start":16369.008,"end":16397.036,"text":"一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案關於海洋委員會及其所屬及其主管所屬部分一百一十四年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於海洋委員會主管特別收入基金海洋污染防治基金等預算相關提案請於一百一十三年十一月二十二日星期五下午五點前送至內政委員會接下來我們處理法案"},{"start":16398.542,"end":16414.728,"text":"與法案審查沒有相關之單位人員可以進行離開報告委員會我們現在進行法案審查請宣讀討論事項所有條文還有包括修正動議請一併宣讀請宣讀"},{"start":16418.132,"end":16433.129,"text":"為權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例修正草案。第8條行政院提案。勤民本節鎖定賠償金之權利不得扣押讓予抵銷或供擔保。委員林英景等27人提案。請保持安靜。委員黃潔等18人提案。"},{"start":16435.411,"end":16458.018,"text":"委員李博毅等16人提案委員張雅琳等25人提案委員陳培宇等18人提案均同行政院提案委員賴瑞龍等17人提案第8條清零本結所定賠償金之權利不得扣押抵銷讓與獲供擔保第16條委員張雅琳等25人提案第一項借款於藝術品後增訂貴金屬其餘同現行條文增訂第17條之一"},{"start":16459.699,"end":16480.824,"text":"行政院提案第17條之一請求本屆所定財產所有權被剝奪回復之權利不得扣押讓與抵銷或供擔保委員林英景等27人提案委員吳佩儀等24人提案委員黃潔等18人提案委員賴瑞龍等17人提案委員李博義等16人提案委員張雅琳等25人提案委員陳培宇等18人提案均同行政院提案"},{"start":16481.784,"end":16503.791,"text":"第二十三條行政院提案第四項後段增訂不進入社會救助法之家庭總收入及家庭財產增訂第五項依本條例受領之財產及給付不得作為抵銷扣押供擔保或強制執行之標的但受領人就其受領之財產自願供擔保者不在此限原第五項一列第六項其餘同現行條文"},{"start":16504.471,"end":16524.383,"text":"委員林一景等27人提案委員吳佩儀等24人提案委員黃潔等18人提案委員李博毅等16人提案均同行政院提案委員賴瑞龍等17人提案委員陳培鈺等18人提案第五項後段刪除但受領人就其受領之財產自願供擔保者不在此縣等文字其餘同行政院提案"},{"start":16525.083,"end":16543.057,"text":"委員張雅琳等25人提案增訂第5項受領人因本條例規定受領之給付者得檢據權利回覆基金會出具之證明文件與金融機構開立專攻存入給付賠償金之用。第5項一列第6項其餘同行政院提案並著作文字修正。"},{"start":16543.737,"end":16572.558,"text":"第二十六條行政院提案第一項同性型條文增訂第二項本條例修正條文自公佈日施行委員李英景等27人提案委員吳佩儀等24人提案委員黃潔等18人提案委員賴瑞龍等17人提案委員李博義等16人提案委員陳培玉等18人提案均同行政院提案委員張雅玲等25人提案增訂第二項本條例修正條文自公佈日施行其餘同性型條文宣讀完畢還有修正動議"},{"start":16574.406,"end":16595.6,"text":"修正動議第23條第4項修正第4項修正為依本條例受領之財產及其負免納所得稅不介入其他法律所稱之家庭總收入及家庭財產其餘同行政院提案提案人為委員王美惠等4人宣讀完畢"},{"start":16606.852,"end":16625.708,"text":"好!各位同仁!那我們齁!現在齁!我們開始齁!我們逐條來審查齁!這個...第八條啊齁!嗯...我們是不是就照院版通過?"},{"start":16627.554,"end":16657.12,"text":"好那第8條照院板通過好來那現在在好那個第16條齁我們維持現行條文好不好好好那17之1齁我們是不是也照院板通過17之1我們是不是照院板通過好"},{"start":16659.136,"end":16682.857,"text":"然後2323這個是王美惠委員她有提修正動議來王委員主席本市有提修正動議就是社會救助法該違其他法律的補助的方法跟我看有什麼意見沒有"},{"start":16684.458,"end":16688.419,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分二、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":16713.188,"end":16716.31,"text":"財團法人2財團法人3財團法人4財團法人5財團法人6財團法人7財團法人8"},{"start":16750.207,"end":16754.552,"text":"我們尊重委員的意見可以改成其他法規,這樣會範圍更大。"},{"start":16763.788,"end":16791.007,"text":"我再回應一下王美惠委員所說的部分那如果那個衛福部所主管的社會救助法沒有問題的話我們同意但是文字上面可不可以修正為其他法規所定那這樣的部分的話它涵蓋的辦法細則行政規則等等這會比較全部全面性好嗎其他法規所定"},{"start":16792.031,"end":16797.015,"text":"其他法規鎖定其他法規鎖定其他法規鎖定"},{"start":16820.1,"end":16825.087,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":16838.558,"end":16856.029,"text":"好那我們現在請宣讀協商結論威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案協商結論第8條第26條照行政院提案通過第16條維持現行條文第23增訂第17條之一照行政院版通過"},{"start":16868.186,"end":16892.78,"text":"第二十三條修正文字通過報告結束好請問各位委員照剛才宣讀的寫上結論通過請問有異議沒有沒有我們通過那本次會議審查通過這條文相關法制用與授權主席及議事人員整理那我主席做以下決議"},{"start":16895.36,"end":16911.676,"text":"我們討論事項第8案威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案及8案均已並案審查完略拟據審查報告提報院會討論請問在場委員需不需經黨團協商不用不用"},{"start":16916.821,"end":16925.652,"text":"好謝謝那本案與院會討論時由本席張昭舉委黃璐做補充說明好本次會議到此結束現在上會"}]}},{"id":"16254","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16254","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685161a8535b05d3ed383679203eefbeec0edb79b8bfb08e79951e8cb93437703915ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Full","date":"2024-11-13","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-11-13T08:31:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:00+08:00","duration":13288,"影片長度":"03:41:28","委員發言時間":"08:31:32 - 12:13:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":312.97784375000003,"end":316.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1786.3340937500002,"end":1788.9159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1789.6753437500001,"end":1793.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1793.6409687500002,"end":1795.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1795.2103437500002,"end":1797.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1798.1128437500001,"end":1798.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1798.78784375,"end":1800.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1800.45846875,"end":1802.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1803.0572187500002,"end":1806.4828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1806.53346875,"end":1807.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1808.2378437500001,"end":1811.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1811.7478437500001,"end":1813.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1813.95846875,"end":1815.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1816.23659375,"end":1820.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1821.6872187500003,"end":1827.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1828.2178437500002,"end":1831.9134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1832.3690937500003,"end":1838.5115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1841.9878437500001,"end":1848.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1849.6153437500002,"end":1855.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1857.0909687500002,"end":1865.3934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1866.8109687500003,"end":1871.3165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1871.4684687500003,"end":1874.3878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1875.5015937500002,"end":1882.0997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1882.6565937500002,"end":1883.1459687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1884.4959687500002,"end":1890.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1893.7434687500001,"end":1898.2997187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1900.5272187500002,"end":1901.9447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1905.1340937500001,"end":1905.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1906.6697187500001,"end":1913.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1916.3897187500002,"end":1920.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1923.81471875,"end":1927.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1930.26096875,"end":1933.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1935.6440937500001,"end":1940.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1942.8834687500002,"end":1946.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1949.0090937500001,"end":1954.5609687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1956.0628437500002,"end":1959.3197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1963.0153437500003,"end":1968.3478437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1971.0815937500001,"end":1975.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1975.70534375,"end":1977.3253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1979.1815937500003,"end":1981.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1984.7165937500001,"end":1990.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1992.1247187500003,"end":1996.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":1998.2165937500001,"end":2000.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2003.0765937500003,"end":2007.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2009.1178437500002,"end":2012.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2014.8215937500001,"end":2018.2809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2021.3184687500002,"end":2026.0265937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2027.02221875,"end":2030.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":2033.4009687500002,"end":2041.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2048.52096875,"end":2221.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2222.92409375,"end":2352.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2354.78534375,"end":2408.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2408.92034375,"end":2408.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2410.0847187500003,"end":2420.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2422.8084687500004,"end":2428.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2430.9422187500004,"end":2434.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2438.56971875,"end":2444.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2446.1465937500006,"end":2447.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2447.8340937500006,"end":2449.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2450.0447187500004,"end":2454.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2454.5165937500005,"end":2464.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2464.84409375,"end":2467.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2467.8309687500005,"end":2472.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2472.62346875,"end":2474.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2475.1209687500004,"end":2478.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2478.9684687500003,"end":2482.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2488.4353437500004,"end":2526.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2526.1172187500006,"end":2528.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2528.66534375,"end":2545.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2547.05909375,"end":2563.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2563.14096875,"end":2588.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2590.4784687500005,"end":2625.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2625.76409375,"end":2637.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2637.88034375,"end":2689.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2690.3953437500004,"end":2708.0128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2708.87346875,"end":2720.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2720.7197187500005,"end":2737.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2738.0672187500004,"end":2785.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2785.58721875,"end":2836.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2839.1990937500004,"end":2847.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2849.9990937500006,"end":2850.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2851.0622187500003,"end":2855.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2853.3065937500005,"end":2854.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2855.7703437500004,"end":2864.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2875.80096875,"end":2879.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2881.48784375,"end":2882.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2884.74471875,"end":2885.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2888.1872187500003,"end":2888.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2895.6628437500003,"end":2913.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2913.22971875,"end":2913.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2913.7528437500005,"end":2928.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2937.1247187500003,"end":2937.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2937.9684687500003,"end":2938.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2938.32284375,"end":2940.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2941.1240937500006,"end":2944.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2945.42721875,"end":2946.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2949.7809687500003,"end":2950.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2951.3503437500003,"end":2951.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2954.0165937500005,"end":2987.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2989.3865937500004,"end":3040.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3040.9734687500004,"end":3054.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3055.6715937500003,"end":3086.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3087.48096875,"end":3093.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3093.5897187500004,"end":3097.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3098.09534375,"end":3109.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3109.9922187500006,"end":3110.6503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3111.3590937500003,"end":3142.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3143.2022187500006,"end":3143.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3143.75909375,"end":3144.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3144.6534687500007,"end":3159.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3159.62159375,"end":3198.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3198.97409375,"end":3200.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3201.4209687500006,"end":3213.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3213.97596875,"end":3231.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3233.07846875,"end":3234.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3234.5634687500005,"end":3298.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3301.2872187500006,"end":3311.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3318.3984687500006,"end":3321.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3321.67221875,"end":3341.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3341.93909375,"end":3391.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3392.0915937500004,"end":3398.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3399.1622187500006,"end":3448.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3448.1503437500005,"end":3456.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3456.8240937500004,"end":3462.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3462.2409687500003,"end":3476.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3477.3778437500005,"end":3483.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3484.88721875,"end":3515.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3515.5997187500006,"end":3526.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3526.6697187500004,"end":3682.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3683.1853437500004,"end":3692.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3695.63909375,"end":3698.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3698.52471875,"end":3700.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3700.88721875,"end":3711.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3711.60284375,"end":3724.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3725.1365937500004,"end":3728.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3728.5790937500005,"end":3731.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3732.8653437500006,"end":3734.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3735.10971875,"end":3736.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3737.0165937500005,"end":3739.8009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3740.6278437500005,"end":3747.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3748.5928437500006,"end":3749.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3750.5840937500006,"end":3756.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3757.18221875,"end":3764.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3764.89409375,"end":3765.4172187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3766.44659375,"end":3768.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3768.4884687500007,"end":3771.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3772.23471875,"end":3775.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3775.91346875,"end":3778.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3778.6134687500007,"end":3793.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3794.6447187500007,"end":3797.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3798.1378437500007,"end":3798.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3799.8590937500003,"end":3801.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3801.6140937500004,"end":3802.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3802.8290937500005,"end":3804.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3804.1622187500006,"end":3805.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3805.2422187500006,"end":3806.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3806.8790937500007,"end":3811.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3811.8572187500004,"end":3811.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3812.0597187500007,"end":3818.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3818.94471875,"end":3819.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3819.5184687500005,"end":3821.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3822.01596875,"end":3828.4959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3828.9347187500007,"end":3834.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3835.4822187500004,"end":3842.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3843.4303437500002,"end":3845.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3846.2822187500005,"end":3850.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3850.8722187500007,"end":3856.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3857.09909375,"end":3862.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3862.51596875,"end":3868.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3869.08034375,"end":3869.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3870.22784375,"end":3875.1047187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3875.6278437500005,"end":3878.0578437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3878.5809687500005,"end":3879.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3880.6397187500006,"end":3883.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3883.37346875,"end":3888.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3888.8915937500005,"end":3896.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3897.1603437500007,"end":3913.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3914.1365937500004,"end":3914.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3915.62159375,"end":3925.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3926.64096875,"end":3932.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3933.27284375,"end":3933.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3933.94784375,"end":3947.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3947.7178437500006,"end":3948.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3949.96221875,"end":3952.3078437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3953.59034375,"end":3988.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3989.4159687500005,"end":3991.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3991.8797187500004,"end":3992.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3993.3309687500005,"end":4000.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4000.5534687500003,"end":4001.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4002.0215937500006,"end":4010.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":4010.7459687500004,"end":4058.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4059.7003437500007,"end":4063.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4071.04034375,"end":4074.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4074.7022187500006,"end":4075.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4075.6134687500007,"end":4077.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4077.5878437500005,"end":4156.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4156.866593750001,"end":4185.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4185.368468750001,"end":4295.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4296.05159375,"end":4313.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4315.45784375,"end":4324.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4331.97846875,"end":4363.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4365.458468750001,"end":4434.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4434.882218750001,"end":4435.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4436.232218749999,"end":4444.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4444.5009687500005,"end":4582.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4583.888468749999,"end":4595.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4596.274718750001,"end":4652.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4644.80721875,"end":4644.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4644.8915937500005,"end":4644.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4644.975968750001,"end":4645.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4652.8397187499995,"end":4675.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4676.0428437499995,"end":4696.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4697.0184687500005,"end":4735.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4735.89846875,"end":4743.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4744.217843750001,"end":4769.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4770.694718750001,"end":4795.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":4796.142218749999,"end":4805.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4812.831593750001,"end":4818.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4820.290343750001,"end":4836.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4836.405968749999,"end":4840.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4840.388468749999,"end":4847.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4847.712218750001,"end":4852.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4853.02784375,"end":4857.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4857.85409375,"end":4863.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4864.013468749999,"end":4864.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4865.4647187499995,"end":4886.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4886.25471875,"end":4889.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4889.950343750001,"end":4897.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4897.864718750001,"end":4913.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4914.09846875,"end":4914.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4915.347218750001,"end":4928.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4928.3915937500005,"end":4929.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4929.927218750001,"end":4939.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4939.64721875,"end":4942.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4943.055968750001,"end":4949.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4951.89846875,"end":4956.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4956.62346875,"end":4957.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4957.80471875,"end":4960.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4960.909718750001,"end":4963.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4964.470343749999,"end":4972.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4972.536593750001,"end":4976.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4976.36721875,"end":4984.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4984.88909375,"end":4988.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4988.41596875,"end":4994.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4994.92971875,"end":4995.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4996.077218750001,"end":5004.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5004.464093750001,"end":5016.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5016.884093750001,"end":5025.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5025.456593750001,"end":5034.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5034.85596875,"end":5036.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5036.6278437500005,"end":5036.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5037.370343750001,"end":5047.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5047.967843750001,"end":5053.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5053.874093750001,"end":5061.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5062.497218750001,"end":5087.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5088.180968750001,"end":5155.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5155.61346875,"end":5156.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5156.845343749999,"end":5158.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5159.376593749999,"end":5162.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5163.224093750001,"end":5177.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5177.939093749999,"end":5193.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5194.37534375,"end":5222.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5222.53971875,"end":5234.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5235.465968750001,"end":5252.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5252.93159375,"end":5253.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5253.70784375,"end":5283.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5283.28971875,"end":5298.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5299.624718749999,"end":5302.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5303.32034375,"end":5320.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5320.9715937500005,"end":5344.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5344.5965937500005,"end":5348.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5349.034718750001,"end":5367.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5368.4072187500005,"end":5375.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5375.663468750001,"end":5380.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5380.79346875,"end":5381.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5382.21096875,"end":5385.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5391.86346875,"end":5424.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5424.786593750001,"end":5438.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5438.77596875,"end":5445.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5445.66096875,"end":5471.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5471.83409375,"end":5503.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5503.964093750001,"end":5560.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5561.54159375,"end":5600.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5600.3709687499995,"end":5602.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5602.530968749999,"end":5617.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5617.161593750001,"end":5617.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5617.2459687499995,"end":5620.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5621.245343750001,"end":5630.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5630.30721875,"end":5634.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5635.23471875,"end":5671.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5672.528468750001,"end":5684.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5685.20159375,"end":5758.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5726.612843750001,"end":5726.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5759.569718750001,"end":5765.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5766.184718750001,"end":5803.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5804.339093750001,"end":5804.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5804.35596875,"end":5807.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5807.714093750001,"end":5807.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5807.96721875,"end":5810.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5810.515343749999,"end":5817.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5817.974093750001,"end":5818.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5819.847218750001,"end":5820.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5821.14659375,"end":5826.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5835.43971875,"end":5847.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5847.38721875,"end":6002.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6002.9072187500005,"end":6096.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6097.170968750001,"end":6121.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6122.517218750001,"end":6216.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6216.84846875,"end":6222.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6222.687218749999,"end":6225.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6237.0478437500005,"end":6240.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6241.38471875,"end":6243.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6244.27034375,"end":6252.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6253.247843749999,"end":6260.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6260.53784375,"end":6267.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6267.67596875,"end":6272.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6272.569718750001,"end":6277.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6277.395968750001,"end":6279.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6279.555968750001,"end":6281.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6282.23909375,"end":6287.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6288.044093750001,"end":6293.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6294.2372187500005,"end":6297.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6298.725968750001,"end":6301.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6301.56096875,"end":6307.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6308.007218750001,"end":6310.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6310.8084687499995,"end":6317.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6317.997218750001,"end":6321.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6321.43971875,"end":6324.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6324.67971875,"end":6331.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6332.6278437500005,"end":6339.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6340.2215937500005,"end":6342.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6343.309718750001,"end":6347.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6347.86596875,"end":6348.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6349.114718750001,"end":6352.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6352.94534375,"end":6353.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6354.10971875,"end":6355.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6355.88159375,"end":6362.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6363.644093750001,"end":6371.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6372.317843750001,"end":6372.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6373.5497187500005,"end":6378.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6378.84846875,"end":6380.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6380.384093750001,"end":6383.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6383.657843750001,"end":6386.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6386.3240937499995,"end":6389.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6390.272843750001,"end":6399.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6399.925343750001,"end":6400.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6401.64659375,"end":6402.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6403.030343750001,"end":6409.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6409.965968750001,"end":6411.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6412.024718750001,"end":6416.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6417.30659375,"end":6439.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6439.56471875,"end":6440.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6441.876593750001,"end":6444.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6445.673468750001,"end":6452.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6452.6259687500005,"end":6460.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6461.232218749999,"end":6464.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6464.809718750001,"end":6469.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6470.64846875,"end":6472.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6473.12909375,"end":6479.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6479.5584687499995,"end":6481.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6481.22909375,"end":6482.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6483.642218750001,"end":6485.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6485.565968750001,"end":6486.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6487.169093750001,"end":6489.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6489.885968750001,"end":6491.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6491.74221875,"end":6495.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6495.52221875,"end":6498.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6499.18409375,"end":6505.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6506.03534375,"end":6508.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6509.17409375,"end":6517.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6517.493468750001,"end":6520.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6520.64909375,"end":6525.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6526.200968749999,"end":6527.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6529.120343750001,"end":6530.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6531.280343750001,"end":6532.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6533.40659375,"end":6536.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6537.186593750001,"end":6541.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6541.675343750001,"end":6544.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6545.573468750001,"end":6550.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6550.484093749999,"end":6551.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6551.54721875,"end":6552.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6552.67784375,"end":6553.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6554.247218750001,"end":6554.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6555.68159375,"end":6556.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6557.284718750001,"end":6558.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6559.27596875,"end":6560.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6561.33471875,"end":6565.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6566.802218750001,"end":6569.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6569.654093749999,"end":6575.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6576.01596875,"end":6577.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6577.38284375,"end":6579.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6579.779093749999,"end":6581.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6581.17971875,"end":6582.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6582.9853437500005,"end":6585.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6586.09034375,"end":6587.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6587.946593750001,"end":6593.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6595.962218750001,"end":6607.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6611.79096875,"end":6611.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6611.87534375,"end":6612.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6614.187218749999,"end":6620.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6620.903468750001,"end":6635.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6635.83784375,"end":6645.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6645.28784375,"end":6646.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6647.22846875,"end":6647.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6648.20721875,"end":6655.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6655.632218750001,"end":6660.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6660.99846875,"end":6661.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6661.70721875,"end":6664.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6664.677218750001,"end":6668.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6669.132218750001,"end":6678.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6678.90284375,"end":6681.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6681.48471875,"end":6681.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6682.32846875,"end":6695.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6696.132218750001,"end":6737.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6738.10034375,"end":6782.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6782.515343749999,"end":6798.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6798.833468750001,"end":6804.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6804.739718750001,"end":6831.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6832.718468749999,"end":6835.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6835.51971875,"end":6838.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6839.046593749999,"end":6851.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6852.225968750001,"end":6866.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6866.73846875,"end":6871.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6871.61534375,"end":6875.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6875.2772187499995,"end":6879.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6879.884093750001,"end":6897.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6898.24409375,"end":6925.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6925.9022187499995,"end":6929.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6929.935343749999,"end":6953.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6953.897843750001,"end":6999.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7000.725968750001,"end":7009.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7025.83596875,"end":7028.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7028.11409375,"end":7030.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7031.35409375,"end":7035.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7036.23096875,"end":7046.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7046.6259687500005,"end":7062.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7063.12971875,"end":7063.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7064.12534375,"end":7065.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7065.30659375,"end":7071.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7071.5165937500005,"end":7073.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7073.524718750001,"end":7086.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7086.72096875,"end":7093.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7094.196593750001,"end":7101.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7101.638468749999,"end":7104.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7104.30471875,"end":7116.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7117.14659375,"end":7128.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7129.00971875,"end":7131.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7131.608468750001,"end":7134.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7134.561593750001,"end":7142.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7142.88096875,"end":7145.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7145.614718750001,"end":7167.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7168.00784375,"end":7175.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7175.36534375,"end":7176.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7176.597218750001,"end":7190.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7190.73846875,"end":7195.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7196.02034375,"end":7197.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7197.75846875,"end":7204.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7204.69409375,"end":7213.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7213.671593750001,"end":7217.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7217.856593750001,"end":7218.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7218.39659375,"end":7222.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7222.61534375,"end":7227.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7227.44159375,"end":7260.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7260.19596875,"end":7263.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7263.8240937499995,"end":7269.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7269.696593750001,"end":7273.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7273.22346875,"end":7284.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7284.934718750001,"end":7292.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7292.5790937500005,"end":7293.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7294.13159375,"end":7296.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7297.1522187499995,"end":7301.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7301.6747187500005,"end":7307.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7308.20534375,"end":7309.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7309.4540937500005,"end":7316.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7316.54159375,"end":7326.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7327.56096875,"end":7335.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7335.62721875,"end":7338.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7338.68159375,"end":7342.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7343.06909375,"end":7355.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7355.96159375,"end":7362.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7362.76221875,"end":7401.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7401.743468750001,"end":7404.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7404.561593750001,"end":7408.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7408.74659375,"end":7411.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7411.530968750001,"end":7417.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7417.3865937499995,"end":7419.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7419.4959687499995,"end":7428.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7428.929093750001,"end":7438.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7438.395968750001,"end":7445.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7445.331593750001,"end":7448.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7449.0947187500005,"end":7465.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7467.8934687500005,"end":7474.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7477.124093750001,"end":7483.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7483.51971875,"end":7484.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7484.97096875,"end":7496.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7497.23909375,"end":7508.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7508.528468750001,"end":7511.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7511.245343750001,"end":7514.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7515.00846875,"end":7529.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7529.470343750001,"end":7545.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7546.716593749999,"end":7553.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7553.854718750001,"end":7577.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7577.952218750001,"end":7582.626593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7582.84596875,"end":7584.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7585.24221875,"end":7585.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7587.2840937500005,"end":7587.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7589.140343750001,"end":7598.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7598.91096875,"end":7609.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7610.08221875,"end":7635.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7635.63096875,"end":7639.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7639.444718750001,"end":7663.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7663.069718750001,"end":7664.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7664.284718750001,"end":7670.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7670.59596875,"end":7691.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7691.993468750001,"end":7720.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7721.710343750001,"end":7733.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7734.06284375,"end":7762.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7763.27346875,"end":7803.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7804.1278437500005,"end":7805.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7805.984093750001,"end":7829.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7829.50784375,"end":7835.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7835.41409375,"end":7844.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7845.505343750001,"end":7864.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7864.23659375,"end":7872.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7872.77534375,"end":7881.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7881.921593750001,"end":7887.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7887.642218750001,"end":7888.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7888.874093750001,"end":7893.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7893.76784375,"end":7895.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7898.02034375,"end":7899.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8581.862843750001,"end":8586.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8602.922843750002,"end":8603.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8604.171593750001,"end":8608.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8608.79534375,"end":8615.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8615.629718750002,"end":8619.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8620.253468750001,"end":8623.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8623.56096875,"end":8627.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8627.594093750002,"end":8629.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8630.26034375,"end":8642.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8642.832218750002,"end":8707.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8707.09221875,"end":8714.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8714.38221875,"end":8720.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8721.351593750001,"end":8721.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8722.12784375,"end":8725.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8726.042843750001,"end":8729.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8730.109718750002,"end":8756.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8756.14784375,"end":8758.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8759.50596875,"end":8762.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8763.134093750003,"end":8765.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8765.648468750001,"end":8769.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8769.20909375,"end":8781.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8781.59534375,"end":8784.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8785.25721875,"end":8827.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8828.035343750002,"end":8828.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8828.74409375,"end":8836.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8837.29971875,"end":8861.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8861.86971875,"end":8875.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8875.504718750002,"end":8890.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8890.87784375,"end":8904.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8904.25971875,"end":8957.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8958.090968750003,"end":8971.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8971.962218750003,"end":8975.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8975.539718750002,"end":8978.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8978.47596875,"end":8979.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8979.960968750001,"end":8981.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8982.67784375,"end":8983.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8984.01096875,"end":9003.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9003.87284375,"end":9005.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9005.644718750002,"end":9011.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9012.78284375,"end":9020.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9025.60784375,"end":9035.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9035.51346875,"end":9042.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9043.02284375,"end":9050.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9050.363468750002,"end":9070.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9070.07346875,"end":9074.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9075.152843750002,"end":9082.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9082.324718750002,"end":9110.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9110.168468750002,"end":9115.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9115.652843750002,"end":9149.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9150.01034375,"end":9156.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9157.43534375,"end":9164.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9164.82659375,"end":9185.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9185.29596875,"end":9192.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9192.87284375,"end":9216.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9216.49784375,"end":9223.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9223.821593750003,"end":9233.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9233.49096875,"end":9241.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9242.14784375,"end":9247.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9247.379093750002,"end":9261.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9261.90846875,"end":9264.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9264.102218750002,"end":9282.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9282.25971875,"end":9292.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9293.32971875,"end":9325.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9325.223468750002,"end":9336.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9336.546593750001,"end":9342.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9342.149093750002,"end":9345.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9345.524093750002,"end":9350.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9350.114093750002,"end":9355.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9356.30721875,"end":9370.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9371.039093750001,"end":9373.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9373.317218750002,"end":9385.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9385.905968750001,"end":9390.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9390.37784375,"end":9396.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9396.300968750002,"end":9406.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9407.23596875,"end":9421.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9422.153468750003,"end":9423.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9424.12784375,"end":9434.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9434.640968750002,"end":9449.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9449.06909375,"end":9458.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9458.24909375,"end":9463.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9463.800968750002,"end":9467.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9468.27284375,"end":9483.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9484.692218750002,"end":9490.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9498.867218750001,"end":9517.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9518.05409375,"end":9518.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9518.88096875,"end":9535.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9535.70534375,"end":9712.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9713.09534375,"end":9736.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9737.88471875,"end":9783.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9784.071593750003,"end":9874.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9876.242843750002,"end":9880.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9891.24471875,"end":9892.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9892.746593750002,"end":9902.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9902.63534375,"end":9910.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9910.937843750002,"end":9913.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9913.97534375,"end":9927.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9927.77909375,"end":9935.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9935.406593750002,"end":9940.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9941.38034375,"end":9947.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9948.315968750001,"end":9948.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9949.04159375,"end":9949.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9950.30721875,"end":9992.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9992.66346875,"end":9995.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9995.903468750003,"end":9996.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9996.12284375,"end":9997.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9997.35471875,"end":10008.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10009.454093750002,"end":10023.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10024.253468750001,"end":10031.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10031.712218750003,"end":10034.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10034.93534375,"end":10035.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10035.070343750001,"end":10036.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10036.57221875,"end":10040.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10041.820343750001,"end":10070.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10070.254718750002,"end":10080.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10080.852218750002,"end":10091.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10092.32721875,"end":10093.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10094.63909375,"end":10104.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10104.98346875,"end":10130.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10130.54909375,"end":10151.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10154.984093750001,"end":10163.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10185.03846875,"end":10270.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10270.695968750002,"end":10291.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10292.59971875,"end":10393.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10393.42784375,"end":10393.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10393.782218750002,"end":10456.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10457.890343750001,"end":10490.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10490.98221875,"end":10633.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10633.91346875,"end":10667.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10668.28784375,"end":10669.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10669.688468750002,"end":10810.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10810.695968750002,"end":10847.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10848.090968750003,"end":10862.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10863.430343750002,"end":10868.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10875.20909375,"end":10877.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10877.41971875,"end":10921.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10921.902218750001,"end":10949.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10950.04971875,"end":10997.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10997.92409375,"end":11050.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11050.81034375,"end":11073.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11073.16971875,"end":11077.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11077.23659375,"end":11122.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11122.91721875,"end":11137.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11137.26096875,"end":11150.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11150.524718750003,"end":11155.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11156.34659375,"end":11158.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11158.911593750003,"end":11175.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11175.65159375,"end":11183.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11183.954093750002,"end":11185.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11186.114093750002,"end":11189.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11189.45534375,"end":11194.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11195.53034375,"end":11203.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11203.562843750002,"end":11215.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11216.742218750001,"end":11224.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11228.06534375,"end":11230.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11230.47846875,"end":11237.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11237.262218750002,"end":11242.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11242.476593750001,"end":11243.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11244.315968750001,"end":11246.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11246.98221875,"end":11249.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11249.277218750001,"end":11261.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11261.562218750001,"end":11265.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11265.899093750002,"end":11269.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11269.493468750003,"end":11272.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11272.480343750001,"end":11274.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11275.180343750002,"end":11278.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11278.875968750002,"end":11280.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11280.495968750001,"end":11284.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11284.42784375,"end":11288.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11289.321593750003,"end":11293.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11293.641593750002,"end":11318.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11319.477218750002,"end":11323.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11323.999718750001,"end":11326.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11326.969718750002,"end":11331.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11331.880343750003,"end":11335.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11335.677218750003,"end":11339.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11340.23346875,"end":11344.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11344.48596875,"end":11348.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11349.34596875,"end":11349.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11350.223468750002,"end":11352.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11353.61534375,"end":11358.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11358.37409375,"end":11361.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11362.42409375,"end":11364.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11364.90471875,"end":11366.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11368.00971875,"end":11369.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11370.034718750001,"end":11380.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11380.41284375,"end":11383.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11383.602218750002,"end":11397.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11397.777218750001,"end":11398.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11399.144093750001,"end":11401.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11401.30409375,"end":11405.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11405.62409375,"end":11411.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11412.62721875,"end":11418.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11419.140968750002,"end":11419.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11420.01846875,"end":11425.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11426.24534375,"end":11427.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11428.23659375,"end":11429.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11429.99159375,"end":11431.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11431.594718750002,"end":11434.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11434.71659375,"end":11437.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11438.125343750002,"end":11441.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11441.83784375,"end":11450.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11450.950343750003,"end":11453.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11453.07659375,"end":11456.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11456.82284375,"end":11458.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11458.577843750001,"end":11463.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11464.14659375,"end":11467.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11467.42034375,"end":11469.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11469.968468750001,"end":11472.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11472.719093750002,"end":11475.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11476.60034375,"end":11479.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11479.65471875,"end":11480.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11481.055343750002,"end":11496.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11496.867218750001,"end":11512.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11512.493468750003,"end":11515.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11515.63221875,"end":11528.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11528.929718750001,"end":11539.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11539.30784375,"end":11543.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11543.374718750001,"end":11545.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11546.20971875,"end":11547.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11548.605968750002,"end":11549.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11550.32721875,"end":11558.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11558.91659375,"end":11559.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11560.43534375,"end":11568.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11568.34971875,"end":11571.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11572.24784375,"end":11573.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11574.32346875,"end":11578.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11579.183468750001,"end":11582.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11581.680968750003,"end":11581.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11582.052218750003,"end":11589.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11590.13534375,"end":11592.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11592.261593750001,"end":11596.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11597.05409375,"end":11615.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11616.747218750003,"end":11621.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11626.21409375,"end":11637.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11638.17846875,"end":11735.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11736.00284375,"end":11837.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11837.117843750002,"end":11931.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11931.65159375,"end":11938.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11939.464718750001,"end":11943.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11944.29096875,"end":11945.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11945.539718750002,"end":11956.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11956.390343750001,"end":12018.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12019.199093750001,"end":12020.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12020.02596875,"end":12020.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12020.903468750003,"end":12020.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12020.937218750001,"end":12022.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12028.21034375,"end":12035.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12035.753468750001,"end":12037.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12038.976593750001,"end":12042.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12043.195343750001,"end":12049.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12050.164718750002,"end":12050.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12051.29534375,"end":12070.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12071.39346875,"end":12074.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12074.633468750002,"end":12085.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12085.973468750002,"end":12119.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12120.11159375,"end":12124.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12124.80284375,"end":12146.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12146.942843750003,"end":12155.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12156.88221875,"end":12196.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12196.63971875,"end":12205.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12206.207843750002,"end":12209.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12209.987843750001,"end":12223.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12224.63534375,"end":12226.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12226.84596875,"end":12227.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12228.195968750002,"end":12252.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12252.74909375,"end":12253.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12253.980968750002,"end":12259.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12259.87034375,"end":12264.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12264.274718750003,"end":12281.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12282.01034375,"end":12300.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12300.37034375,"end":12300.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12300.555968750003,"end":12306.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12308.031593750002,"end":12312.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12313.043468750002,"end":12320.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12320.62034375,"end":12328.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12328.821593750003,"end":12338.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12338.879093750002,"end":12346.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12346.65846875,"end":12362.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12362.706593750001,"end":12364.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12365.524718750003,"end":12379.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12380.340968750003,"end":12393.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12393.739718750003,"end":12403.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12404.10096875,"end":12408.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12418.90034375,"end":12496.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12496.69409375,"end":12507.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12507.375968750002,"end":12509.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12510.109718750002,"end":12551.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12551.605343750001,"end":12561.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12562.18596875,"end":12571.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12571.129718750002,"end":12596.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12597.134093750003,"end":12618.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12618.362843750001,"end":12618.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12619.054718750001,"end":12621.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12621.87284375,"end":12661.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12661.86659375,"end":12701.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12701.742218750001,"end":12741.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12741.769718750002,"end":12753.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12754.13909375,"end":12755.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12755.860343750002,"end":12758.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12774.11909375,"end":12793.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12793.79534375,"end":12804.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12805.03409375,"end":12807.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12807.93659375,"end":12817.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12817.47096875,"end":12829.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12829.907843750003,"end":12841.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12841.93971875,"end":12852.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12854.376593750003,"end":12868.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12870.542843750001,"end":12878.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12879.570968750002,"end":12880.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12880.667843750001,"end":12882.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12882.777218750001,"end":12908.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12909.11909375,"end":12910.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12911.12721875,"end":12916.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12916.527218750001,"end":12917.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12918.113468750002,"end":12919.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12919.379093750002,"end":12922.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12922.922843750002,"end":12976.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12976.922843750002,"end":12985.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12985.96784375,"end":12987.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12988.33034375,"end":12992.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12992.86971875,"end":12993.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12993.96659375,"end":13002.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13002.539093750001,"end":13004.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13007.36534375,"end":13019.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13020.49409375,"end":13025.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13025.590343750002,"end":13026.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13027.88534375,"end":13029.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13030.99034375,"end":13042.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13042.937843750002,"end":13043.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13043.882843750001,"end":13049.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13050.480968750002,"end":13051.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13052.860343750002,"end":13055.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13055.796593750001,"end":13056.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13057.298468750003,"end":13063.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13063.79534375,"end":13066.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13067.507843750001,"end":13088.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13089.495968750001,"end":13136.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13138.26471875,"end":13140.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13141.62284375,"end":13141.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13142.517218750003,"end":13142.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13142.939093750003,"end":13145.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13146.347843750002,"end":13152.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13153.215968750003,"end":13166.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13167.964718750001,"end":13168.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13173.01034375,"end":13196.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13201.05659375,"end":13201.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13201.680968750003,"end":13212.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13226.58846875,"end":13227.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13228.140968750002,"end":13228.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13229.11971875,"end":13249.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13250.01096875,"end":13256.423468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13256.507843750001,"end":13260.220343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13260.59159375,"end":13263.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13264.000343750002,"end":13267.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13267.797218750002,"end":13270.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13271.442218750002,"end":13272.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13272.37034375,"end":13272.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13272.606593750003,"end":13272.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13272.977843750003,"end":13341.16971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":314.773,"end":315.497,"text":"主席"},{"start":1786.683,"end":1814.706,"text":"大家早 現在開始開會今天本會舉行於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中．增訂並併行有薪彈性親職假的可行性的公聽會謝謝各位學者專家與各政府機關代表歷臨指教本次公聽會探討的議題以提綱為準請各位自行參閱"},{"start":1817.078,"end":1838.292,"text":"現在先介紹一下在場的目前我們其他委員都還沒有到現場那學者專家跟行政機關代表包括我們的學者專家出席的有托育及就業政策催生聯盟的發言人王喬玲 王發言人"},{"start":1842.082,"end":1865.166,"text":"下一位是臺灣勞工陣線的副秘書長 楊書偉副秘書長 歡迎桃園市人力資源管理協會秘書長 徐啟勝 徐秘書長全國教師工會總聯合會文宣部主任 羅德水主任 歡迎"},{"start":1866.994,"end":1889.786,"text":"財政法人 彭婉如 文教基金會 法規遵循及人事部研發專員 陳竺儀專員 歡迎全國教師公會總聯合會理事長 侯俊良理事長 歡迎國家政策研究基金會 特約研究員 林昭真 林專員"},{"start":1893.94,"end":1919.807,"text":"我們現場來的兩位委員包括林瑞琴委員還有陳昭芝委員我們的行政機關代表特別歡迎新任的勞動部政務次長黃寧娜次長另外有勞動部發展署副署長陳世昌副署長"},{"start":1924.712,"end":1933.398,"text":"勞動條件及就業平等師師長 黃維生師長勞動保險師專門委員 蔡佳華專委勞動福祉退休師專門委員 邱倩麗 邱專委全序部法規師研究委員 李昭賢 李委員"},{"start":1949.113,"end":1975.796,"text":"行政院人事行政總處培訓考用處專門委員陳一鈞陳專委教育部人事處專門委員廖正文廖專委國民及學前教育署主任曾瓊惠曾主任衛生福利部社會及家庭署主長陳信榮主長陳信榮主長抱歉"},{"start":1979.309,"end":1993.456,"text":"國民健康署副組長 蔡惟怡副組長國防部人事參謀次長室人事管理處副處長 盧志清副處長經濟部人事處專門委員 王範妍 王專委產業發展署副組長 張文鈺副組長中小企業署檢任秘書 謝國中 謝檢密"},{"start":2009.178,"end":2029.16,"text":"商業發展署科長 葉信渝 葉科長國營事業管理師科長 古美蘭科長國家發展委員會社會發展處專門委員 蘇艾娟 蘇專委行政院性別平等處參議 蔡玉芳 蔡參議"},{"start":2033.424,"end":2036.572,"text":"好 謝謝接下來就請勞動部代表報告時間5分鐘次長請"},{"start":2049.067,"end":2072.999,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位專家、學者及團體代表、大家早今天本部應邀到貴委員會來就《於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中．增訂並併行有薪彈性親職假的可行性》公聽會來進行報告敬請委員們不吝指教以下僅就討論提綱來進行說明"},{"start":2076.401,"end":2098.293,"text":"第一個部分是現行育嬰留職停薪並併行有薪彈性親職假的可行性我們知道在性工法定有育嬰留職停薪、調整或減少工作時間及家庭照顧假等各項促進工作平等的措施受雇父母如果有需要都可以來提出申請加以運用"},{"start":2099.113,"end":2121.499,"text":"為了讓育嬰留職停薪的父母能夠穩定就業及強化勞工育嬰留職期間的經濟支持我們從110年7月1日開始另外以公務預算來增加兩成的育嬰留職停薪補助讓育嬰留職期間的薪資替代率可以達到平均月頭保薪資的八成"},{"start":2122.319,"end":2138.109,"text":"另外：如果有接送子女的需求：或者是因應臨時突發的事件：比如說像腸病毒：或者是保母臨時有事：也可以申請每天調整：或者是減少工作時間：及家庭照顧假：來作為因應："},{"start":2138.869,"end":2160.004,"text":"而且顧主不能拒絕此外本部在今年也訂定了彈性育嬰留職停薪事辦原則以不少於5天為申請門檻事辦期間從113年5月9日到今年年底12月31日為止希望透過勞動實務現場的運作來務實的瞭解問題所在作為未來我們政策上的參考"},{"start":2166.388,"end":2195.242,"text":"第二個部分是有薪彈性親職假以小時為單位的可行性我國事業單位規模很懸殊30個人以下的小型微型企業占我國企業數超過97%其中未滿5個人的超過80%由於各行各業經營型態都不一樣勞工的工作型態跟工作時間上也常常有輪班、排班"},{"start":2196.002,"end":2221.621,"text":"有的工作的專業門檻比較高．對於事業單位而言．也不容易找到替代的人力．因此是否增訂以小食為單位的有薪親職假．影響的層面很廣泛．我們還需要收集各界的意見來審慎衡酌第三部分是有薪彈性親職假．申請年齡延長到子女滿8歲前的可行性"},{"start":2223.282,"end":2251.685,"text":"我們根據統計112學年度從3歲到入國小前的幼兒入園率已經達到90.5%現行育嬰留職停薪所訂的受僱者與每一個子女3歲以前父親或母親可以申請兩年的育嬰留職停薪的規定還算是恰當依照性工法的規定受僱者如果因為育兒有彈性工作的需求"},{"start":2252.185,"end":2279.383,"text":"可以以申請家庭照顧假調整或減少工作時間來作為因應那勞動基準法第30條第8項也明定了勞工如果有因為照顧家中孩童的有變更工作起企時間的需求可以跟僱主協商調整工作開始跟終止的時間這個規定不限於撫育未滿3歲的子女那麼如果我們來新增"},{"start":2279.983,"end":2280.003,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":2295.903,"end":2316.618,"text":"不同的子女可以請假的期間如何來合併計算那平均一年有91天的親職假是否適當這些諸多問題都還待我們克服而且需要考量我國中小企業數很多剛剛有跟大家報告未滿5個人的這個中小企業數就超過80%恐怕會造成人力調度上的困難"},{"start":2321.682,"end":2337.71,"text":"未來會根據配合彈性育嬰留職停薪的事辦結果來滾動相關的規定第4個部分是有薪彈性親職假是否需要有預排型或臨時型的類型區分的可行性"},{"start":2338.45,"end":2351.568,"text":"那今年度勞動部事辦彈性育嬰留職停薪只有少數事辦單位的這個計畫他們這些單位同意受僱者在一天前臨時提出申請"},{"start":2355.771,"end":2382.674,"text":"繼續那本部已經在113年10月11號邀集參加單位召開期中座談會來瞭解實際的實施情形那與會代表有提到所生出來的所新生的這個人力空缺暫時以現有的同仁來支援他們大部分都沒有在增僱短期人力但是因為這次是屬於事半性職申請員工相對比例比較低"},{"start":2383.194,"end":2408.055,"text":"所以暫時沒有人力調配的問題那如果將來明定可以彈性請假申請比率跟頻率可能都會大增那產業擔心遇到旺季的時候會影響到公司的營運未來我們將會並同彈性育嬰留職停薪事辦結果再做通盤的檢討以上報告已經請各位指教謝謝"},{"start":2410.914,"end":2434.663,"text":"謝謝勞動部剛剛有專家學者又到場我們先補介紹國家政策研究基金會的召集人簡榮忠國立臺北大學社會工作學系陳芬林陳教授國立政治大學勞工研究所劉梅君劉教授"},{"start":2438.598,"end":2452.899,"text":"本次會議部會及學者、專家所提供的相關書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報與會人員發言前先宣告以下事項學者、專家及本院委員每位發言時間6分鐘"},{"start":2455.154,"end":2482.132,"text":"為簡報方便學者專家發言請至主席臺右邊的發言臺原則上由學者專家先行依簽到次順序發言委員如要發言請到主席臺登記全部人員發言結束後再請行政機關做整體回應暫定10點半休息10分鐘現在請登記第一位的全國教師公會總聯合會理事長侯俊良侯理事長"},{"start":2488.476,"end":2511.854,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位與會的先進 大家早安我是全國教師公會總聯會會理事長何俊良老師第一個我要跟大家報告剛剛勞動部的一個這樣的一個說明全教總在2011年也就是13年前就已經在我們自己的一個員工裡面實施這個有薪的親職假已經13年了都沒有什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":2513.015,"end":2523.869,"text":"那我想我今天最主要發言的一個內容除了生之外現在養也非常重要那當然生的部分我們支持對於整個彈性滾動修正有關這個育嬰讓它更彈性我覺得是對的"},{"start":2526.192,"end":2545.715,"text":"那另外一個部分對於現在的養的部分特別是這邊講到8歲我們認為應該要延長到國教階段國民教育階段的一個這樣的一個家長應該都有這樣一個彈性的親職假那最主要的一個原因各位可以看一下"},{"start":2547.13,"end":2562.607,"text":"整個近5年來的學校現場特別是國小國中階段的暴力事件它是倍增啦各種的一個暴力偏差行為是倍增那我想很多的一個家長在工作的場域裡面經常會接到"},{"start":2563.528,"end":2586.432,"text":"學校現場打的電話但是他因為要上班沒有辦法去參與家庭的這個學校的一個事務產生更大的一個問題所以我們認為應該在整個有親職假的一個彈性的部分應該要延長到國教階段那對教育基本法國民教育法其實裡面都有談到家長管教的一個責任但是現行的一個困難度就是我們對於整體的一個"},{"start":2590.543,"end":2610.572,"text":"家長的一個他的一個工作因為沒有辦法有彈性的一個處理所以以至於沒有辦法去參與學校的一些整個這個事務所以我們的一個主張希望說在修正性別平等工作法的第20條裡面要加上一個部分就是受僱者初期國民教育階段而且我們是很明確的"},{"start":2611.652,"end":2637.25,"text":"國民教育階段的幼兒園學校家長是個別教育計畫安置會議得請親子教育假而且全年是以日為限我覺得這個實價還可以來做處理因為它是具體明確的也就是說學校有事情學校會通知那你這時候企業跟這個我覺得國家應該這個部分去做一些支持而且它的一個請假日數不併入市價的一個計算而且要"},{"start":2638.19,"end":2662.465,"text":"給新那我再特別論述一下現在家長難以出席學校活動我們又認為很重要其實是非常重要因為家長的參與會讓學校的一個教育事務可以跟家庭做一個很緊密的一個連結那家長也不用因為對於這個教育事務不了解所以經常會接受到學校這邊提供一些可能聯絡部各方面的一個處理但是他又沒有辦法處理那"},{"start":2663.726,"end":2689.669,"text":"家長為什麼不能參與工作時間太長而且剛好跟學校工作室有這樣的一個衝突那第二個部分就是單親那還有一些有長輩要照顧的他分身罰住再來是隔代教養特別是隔代教養隔代教養你阿公阿嬤到學校其實他沒有辦法去解決這些教育事務應該要家長這邊去做一些處理那另外外籍父母的一個溝通還有教育程度的一個差別"},{"start":2690.45,"end":2707.822,"text":"因為整個教育程度的一個差別更需要家長實際的一個參與不然他不了解現場他不了解到底發生什麼問題再來就是親事溝通的模式那這也是因為有很多的一個誤解很多沒有經過這樣的一個見面談所以他不了解一些細節那很容易就是"},{"start":2708.903,"end":2732.839,"text":"孩子回家講了一套那家長信你為真因為沒有跟老師做溝通沒有跟學校做溝通不了解這些現象那這些的問題都會造成養的很大的一個整個一個落差最後會衍生成家長是無奈的那他又要工作又沒有辦法去回應這些部分那整個教養的部分我想少子化跟老年化都是衛福部的一個責任"},{"start":2733.399,"end":2751.491,"text":"那這兩個更凸顯我們不只要生還要養好要把孩子養好他以後才有這樣的一個競爭力所以這個部分就凸顯這個部分的一個重要那我剛剛講學校總在13年前就已經做這件事情那我們這幾年的一個處理我們的一個員工他即使學校有事情"},{"start":2752.111,"end":2770.249,"text":"即使是緊急的他去也不會一天啊可能一兩個小時而已啊很快就解決那工作的部分又可以彈性做處理所以我們認為而且在我們在兩年多前我們召開一次記者會有很多的一個現場的立委也支持我們"},{"start":2771.71,"end":2784.523,"text":"簽署我們這樣的一個親職假的部分包括現在的衛福部部長他當時也簽署了這個願意給我們立法院的一個員工這樣子一個親職假我覺得這是一個很好的一個現象那整個全奧總"},{"start":2785.649,"end":2799.227,"text":"做了這麼多年還有很多的一個企業也已經有進行這樣子的這樣子一個親職假的部分所以我們認為在整個修法的過程當中這個是最值得最有價值應該把它修進去的特別是對企業來講我覺得是"},{"start":2801.309,"end":2816.739,"text":"注重我們員工子女教育一個很好的一個表率我講他不會腐爛因為是有些具體明確的一些事件產生你才有需要這樣子甚至我們可以鼓勵自己的員工多跟老師做溝通多跟學校做溝通"},{"start":2817.119,"end":2817.199,"text":"主席"},{"start":2839.226,"end":2863.841,"text":"好 謝謝侯理事長 我們接著補介紹現在到現場的婦女薪資基金會的秦玉榮 秦秘書長那緊接著我們邀請到國家政策研究基金會的特約研究員 林昭真 林研究員"},{"start":2876.835,"end":2888.705,"text":"親職假的看法那我們這個操作不是操作不好意思"},{"start":2895.86,"end":2912.773,"text":"我是整理今天我們性平處提供的這個公聽會的資料裡頭我們看到有薪彈性親職假設定的推動的目的主要是在提升女性的經濟賦權跟應該有包括鼓勵生養子女"},{"start":2914.034,"end":2928.497,"text":"當然呢 促進這個女性經濟復權 它的一個重要性 除了說我們將來應該落實在怎麼樣促進工作與家庭平衡 跟穩定婦女就業這個層面之外 我們從政府的不好意思"},{"start":2941.226,"end":2941.286,"text":"主席"},{"start":2954.022,"end":2966.848,"text":"看一下現在這些勞動參與率的這個部分我們把男性女性未婚還有那個進入婚姻之後我們來看一下特別我們紅框框裡頭會發現未婚跟已婚的他們的這個勞動參與率差距已經從本來未婚是大概還不到6%大概5、6左右然後現在已經都超過到15%以上所以可以發現"},{"start":2982.074,"end":2986.48,"text":"婚姻對一個女性的勞動參與其實是有相當大的一個影響"},{"start":2989.434,"end":3011.408,"text":"然後我們今天因為講到是有薪彈性親職假所以應該談的就是說在在職他還沒有離職之前那我們從這個我們整理一個研究報告裡頭他們看到的就是婦女暫離職場他各方面他考量的一個因素裡頭可以發現公私壓力是一個很大的一個因素所以我想我們今天討論這個這個有薪彈性親職假"},{"start":3015.45,"end":3037.667,"text":"在公司的執行上面這個確實會是一個我們可能待會再討論的時候我們應該考慮的一個重點那我們先砍一下我們談到親職假一般都是會以瑞典他作為是我們最typical的一個典範但是因為瑞典他其實也有很他特殊的一個人文環境因為他們強調的就是說"},{"start":3041.29,"end":3070.052,"text":"國家社會還有那個就是個人共同來養育所以他們在這個親職假上面的一些規定他當然是鼓勵父親要參與而且主要的是裁員因為今天我們特別會強調有薪彈性親職假有薪當然就是就是裁員是一個很重要的考量而且我們之所以要把他併在那個我們的那個育嬰留職停薪制度裡頭的話當然考慮的就是一個的那個就是"},{"start":3071.854,"end":3085.054,"text":"這個財源的問題希望在這個負擔上不要全部都加注在企業的身上那我們從瑞典的情況來看他們是有一個親職保險這個部分來給付這一部分的那個財源"},{"start":3087.54,"end":3108.166,"text":"那他們的其實親職假不是只是單純的親職假他們其實育嬰假子女照顧假那個都是不一樣的那他們的育嬰假是包括在那個產假之內子女照顧假所以就會擴展到那個12歲以下的孩童那如果這個部分是這個樣子的那他們"},{"start":3111.417,"end":3126.017,"text":"在這個彈性工時的政策上面其實他們的彈性可能跟我們想的彈性是有點不太一樣他可以就是說你這個受僱者可以用縮短工時的方式也可以說把你的假期全部分配到"},{"start":3126.477,"end":3126.497,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3143.832,"end":3149.098,"text":"就是通常是孩子比較小的時候有比較長的親職假的時間那如果超過那個時間之後我們會有無薪的親職假津貼這個部分"},{"start":3158.889,"end":3176.648,"text":"那我想要講到說我們今天這個第二個重點就是說有薪彈性彈性的這個部分我常常想說是不是勞工或者是公司他們想的彈性會跟那個決策者想的不太一樣事實上根據那個"},{"start":3177.808,"end":3200.684,"text":"請指天下的調查裡頭這個彈性工時確實是受到所有員工最支持的一個一個就是可以留住人才的一個很好的方式但是呢我們今年事辦的這個彈性育嬰假或者是過去的彈性工時我們其實性平法裡頭第19條已經有這個規定為什麼實施的那個成效那麼差我在想最主要就是"},{"start":3202.426,"end":3216.501,"text":"員工跟還有公司想的可能會跟我們不一樣那我們看看新加坡的例子好了他們也是今年才做了這個彈性公司的一個立法那主要就是政府對於企業他有一些補助的誘因那"},{"start":3218.363,"end":3229.454,"text":"做法上面他的彈性有15種不是說只是壓縮到那個小時或是怎麼樣他包括到工作分攤彈性的上班時間或者是你把你的工作時間壓縮比如5天壓縮到4天這樣子"},{"start":3233.137,"end":3249.586,"text":"我抱歉我就簡單的說一下我的政策建議因為我們剛剛講了有薪是一個重點所以我會建議說是不是應該修就業保險法把我們的那個現行的費率從1%提高到2%那個最主要是我們剛剛講的其實一般親職假他的時間是比較長的比較臨時的事情其實是應該用有薪家庭照顧假會比較好那事實上這也是國民黨長期以來所"},{"start":3259.651,"end":3274.101,"text":"所建議的有薪的那個7天有薪的家庭照顧假那我們就請求建議的尋求的裁員就是從就業保險法來然後呢事實上我們在做彈性工時的時候在企業訪談的部分我們發現他們都常常會說你工時減少但是我的勞健保的負擔並沒有減少"},{"start":3279.244,"end":3279.604,"text":"以上就是我的報告 謝謝"},{"start":3301.291,"end":3308.124,"text":"好 謝謝我們的林研究員接下來邀請到桃園市人力資源管理協會的祕書長徐啟聖"},{"start":3318.79,"end":3341.433,"text":"主席還有各位在場先進大家好我想今天針對這個性平工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中 增訂並行有薪彈性親職假的可行性的部分那這一部分因為個人在人力資源管理領域已經多年那在這個最近也跟很多的中小企業的"},{"start":3342.414,"end":3342.454,"text":"公聽會委員："},{"start":3364.692,"end":3390.65,"text":"家庭照顧假以及減少工時還有調整工時的部分也做了很多努力也在各位立法委員的努力之下也修訂了很多的這些相關的配套措施那在現今的這個狀況之下各360行幾乎都缺工那在現有的這個企業的反應就是因為這樣的一個實施已經人力捉襟見肘"},{"start":3392.151,"end":3412.3,"text":"那如果因為這個整個人力的結構我們在明年會進入到超高齡的社會那已經在現有的人力的配置上很希望能夠在嬰法族的這個退而不休的部分在努力這個勞動部也在努力的這個推動那在現有的人力的結構"},{"start":3413.28,"end":3441.423,"text":"的還有人力的缺口 確實在這個時間點 誠如當才這個黃政務次長 勞動部次長說的勞動報告的內容我們是非常認同的 就是因為現階段大部分的中小企業 5人以下的佔據多數那如果這個有薪的親職假 或者是這個所謂的嬰留職停薪的也可以用日或時來做的話 那"},{"start":3443.464,"end":3459.154,"text":"在昨天的一些交流裡面有一些的企業老闆就提到那現在現況的這個38條特休排定就是勞工可以自主排定他的特休就已經造成公視的很大的困擾因為生產線一個蘿蔔一個坑"},{"start":3460.695,"end":3483.19,"text":"那如果臨時性的排定特休或臨時性的就是減少工時確實已經造成他很大的困擾那如果再增加這個所謂的育嬰留職停薪的一小時來計的話那這個他們唯一的解決方案就是關掉公司企業那這個部分原本是要創造幸福職場反而造成了這個就業"},{"start":3484.946,"end":3511.337,"text":"的一個無法就業的這個部分那所以在可能在政策的施政的時候可能要這個要考量一下我們的幸福的政策底下是不是能夠也能夠思考到整個企業的生存企業的永續經營的部分在這個法令的制定的時候是非常重要的那剛才剛才第二位報告的先進裡面也提到"},{"start":3511.917,"end":3525.935,"text":"瑞典的這個親職假的部分那其實瑞典其實是在親職或者是在子女的教育的部分是非常重視的它是全球第一個實施育孫假的"},{"start":3526.918,"end":3555.157,"text":"就是可以不是育嬰假還有育孫假那這個部分可是但是它的背景他們是沒有家庭照顧假的其實我們在我們的整個華人的背景還有華人社會裡面非常這個現有的狀況已經有家庭照顧假的實施那其實照顧假已經可以應付剛才兩位前面先進的提到了臨時性的需要有家庭的事件需要照顧的時候"},{"start":3556.118,"end":3556.138,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3571.435,"end":3587.315,"text":"減少工時一小時或調整上班的時間所以目前的一些機制已經顯然在勞動部還有各立法委員這個先進裡面其實已經在過去已經顧及到這一點那現行狀況很多的中小企業也盡量去配合這個政策"},{"start":3588.076,"end":3588.757,"text":"是否可以針對"},{"start":3615.7,"end":3643.339,"text":"剛才提到是從育孫假的部分也可以去思考的那育孫假的部分其實他們因為瑞典他們是把父母親的這個育嬰假某部分轉移到在職的這個祖父祖母那能夠去進行所謂的育孫那這其實在這個現階段可能要整個人力結構不同整個企業經營文化背景不同的狀況之下那要實施這個假"},{"start":3644.52,"end":3644.54,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":3669.418,"end":3671.059,"text":"請全國教師公會總聯合會文宣部主任羅德水"},{"start":3696.063,"end":3724.108,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位先進我想今天討論這個性別工作平等法的問題它的背景是因為我們的少子女化真的太嚴重了按照國發會的推估我們臺灣在2049年人口即將跌破2000萬然後可能就一路往下到1600、1700這個數字那少子女化其實它伴隨著還有高齡化"},{"start":3725.388,"end":3745.652,"text":"更嚴重的其實就是撫養比的上升所以其實我們現在在討論這個議題與其是在說在照顧我們的青年的父母親他們的育嬰的問題其實也是可以說是在幫我們現在這一輩人以後老年以後誰來撫養來做"},{"start":3749.03,"end":3749.37,"text":"提前佈局"},{"start":3766.499,"end":3793.635,"text":"又要刺激生育率我想刺激生育率如果只是中央政府跟地方政府用最快的方式就是發津貼每生一個給多少錢我想這個刺激效果大家應該看得到所以可能還是必須回到友善的養育這樣子的政策面向能夠來著手才有機會真正去讓我們的生育率能夠提升"},{"start":3794.696,"end":3818.001,"text":"好那我以下提三個意見第一個我覺得育嬰留職停薪的這個假跟津貼真的必須與時俱進現在有一些規範嘛那公司部門慢慢趨向一致但是現在的規範就是滿六個月以後就職滿六個月然後三歲前然後最多兩年"},{"start":3819.625,"end":3819.785,"text":"主席"},{"start":3835.563,"end":3855.034,"text":"政府部門以及委員的支持以下我們已經從薪資的6成提高到8成但是各位不要忘記這個是本薪所以如果以公教人員為例我舉一個中小學老師剛入行他就是190他的本薪是24300"},{"start":3857.421,"end":3879.327,"text":"那這種能夠結婚懷孕然後生產的這些年輕的這些受雇者他一定是年輕一定是本薪比較低所以這個190的老師他的薪他的本薪是兩萬四千三一個月如果成立0.8剩不到兩萬那我們如果抓"},{"start":3880.697,"end":3887.293,"text":"公教人員一般來講如果他的到他育嬰的階段他假設本薪有3萬那其實也是2萬出頭"},{"start":3888.979,"end":3914.244,"text":"所以這個金額真的已經是不可以講說連他的生活需求都無法滿足更何況他還要育嬰這第一個問題所以我們認為這個育嬰留職停薪的假跟今天應該考慮與時俱進第二個我們也是支持要增訂有薪的彈性親職假可以理解業者方面有會有很多的不同的看法那"},{"start":3915.663,"end":3932.588,"text":"我覺得現在的問題是我們整體的社會要用什麼樣的社會成本什麼樣的角度來看待我們的少子女化這麼嚴重的問題所以這個當然必須政府要負更大的責任由政府來提供"},{"start":3937.032,"end":3950.784,"text":"規劃讓業者願意也做友善職場那當然大企業可以有比較有機會來落實這種企業的社會責任第三個是育嬰員制的採集經過"},{"start":3953.635,"end":3967.9,"text":"委員、朝委委員都支持現在我們公視力學校老師的教職員的育嬰假都可以購買年資就是他的退休因為他之前請育嬰假他的年資就中斷"},{"start":3968.76,"end":3987.695,"text":"那在委員的支持以下我們現在是都可以購買年資這個是憲法保障的他的就是他的工作的平等的權利就是消除性別歧視但是我們後來仔細去研究發現公立學校現在的規範是106年8月9號以後的才能採計"},{"start":3993.399,"end":4009.862,"text":"那私立學校是在112年6月9號修法以後才能採記那我這邊提出的就是說當初請育嬰留職停薪的人這些公私立學校的教職員他們也請了育嬰假但是他們年資是中斷的"},{"start":4010.836,"end":4025.866,"text":"我覺得這個責任不在這些老師而是在我們當初的立法沒有想到後來也修正了但是沒有溯及既往所以是在座委員都在這邊是不是有機會我們來研究一下我們也有提案"},{"start":4026.286,"end":4048.458,"text":"就說當初這個不能規則於這些請育嬰假的教職員是因為他們有申請但是年資因為沒有規範就中斷了那現在有彌補就是在一定的年限之後才有得採計之前的就沒得採計那我們也陸陸續續有受到蠻多這種老師的懲請我們也有提案後續再跟"},{"start":4049.438,"end":4049.879,"text":"陳昭之委員"},{"start":4071.072,"end":4080.684,"text":"各位專家、學者、一會的官員還有好朋友們那有關這個有薪彈性的育嬰假是本黨柯文哲主席在競選總統時的這個政見雖然他沒有當選總統但是我們黨團還是決定要落實"},{"start":4086.732,"end":4089.234,"text":"當時他競選的時候的一個政見跟這個承諾所以我們很負責任的提出了有薪彈性的這個育嬰假的這個法案那這項政策法案我覺得對家庭企業跟社會是三贏為什麼呢首先就是第一個促進勞工的權益"},{"start":4106.087,"end":4113.009,"text":"支持養育責任的分攤現行的育嬰留職停薪或減薪假雖然是讓雙親能夠有照顧孩子的機會但是因為多數家庭並沒有辦法承擔或負擔比較長期的無薪假期所以很多人往往會掙扎在工作跟生活之間所以這個壓力"},{"start":4133.595,"end":4133.635,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":4155.211,"end":4158.392,"text":"有利於親子關係的一個發展跟兒童的發展因為很多研究證實那個孩子的本身的心理發展跟他的社交發展其實跟爸爸媽媽們他們相處的時間是有密切的關係在孩子成長的過程當中如果我們讓這個有薪彈性假能夠讓父母親"},{"start":4175.296,"end":4179.338,"text":"有機會比較能夠持續的參與孩子的成長過程那就不會因為經濟壓力錯過了寶貴的親子時間其實這不僅能夠增進親子的關係的連結而且有幫助孩子的幸福感跟安全感"},{"start":4193.146,"end":4218.545,"text":"所以這個對孩子未來的這個發展是非常正面的那再來就是說提升企業員工的工作效能跟促進導資雙贏我知道有薪彈性假看來好像是增加這個企業主的一個成本但是其實還能夠降低員工的離職率提高士氣增加工作的效能我相信當企業願意支持員工的家庭需求的時候員工會更加投入工作"},{"start":4219.425,"end":4244.975,"text":"會有更好的忠誠度而且減少缺勤員工留任率高的話對企業界本身他的招募、培訓的成本是會降低的而且他能夠讓企業累積更多的人力的資本達成雙贏這也是為什麼全球企業已經開始補助員工用各種方式成立家庭包括我個人長期推動的代孕法案現在很多的企業包括NVIDIA、Google、Meta、Amazon Express講不完的企業"},{"start":4245.615,"end":4253.819,"text":"他們都對於這些都是給予全額的一個補助那第四個就是因應少子化的一個國安危機台灣少子化的問題非常嚴重根據美國CIA的資料一戶到2020年年底有227個國家我們是倒數第一名227個國家"},{"start":4263.123,"end":4269.625,"text":"這個是非常嚴重倒數第二個就是韓國那日本加拿大也在裡面我個人認為這個有彈性的這個這個親職假能夠有幫助提升生育的這個意願那未來的父母可以在比較沒有後顧之憂的情況下那對於這個來迎接新生命那對於我們這個國家的人口結構跟經濟的活力都是正面的"},{"start":4285.288,"end":4312.499,"text":"所以我的結論就是說如果我們增加了彈性的有薪的這個親職假其實第一個實踐性別平等這是具體措施提升勞工的權益支持家庭的幸福促進企業的發展還有應對少子化的政策所以我很希望朝野的不分黨派大家共同來支持落實這個政策讓我們台灣成為一個更包容更友善的社會謝謝大家"},{"start":4316.13,"end":4323.056,"text":"謝謝陳昭志委員的發言接下來我們邀請到托育及就業政策催生聯盟發言人黃喬林"},{"start":4332.271,"end":4341.074,"text":"好大家好我是托育籍就業政策催生美萌的發言人黃喬琳首先是感謝衛黃委員會關注這項議題進而召開這場公聽會來讓社會各方可以持續討論共同推進修法那今天報告的主軸如簡報上面的標題"},{"start":4349.696,"end":4362.491,"text":"大缺工時代,臺灣的女力為最佳的裁員脫盟支持也呼籲政府應該要修法創設有薪彈性的親職假制度性的支持女性充分就業也支持企業可以永續經營"},{"start":4364.653,"end":4383.386,"text":"好 大家可以看到這張圖其實臺灣長期的深陷低女性勞動參與率以及低生育率的雙低困境其實眾多年輕跟中年兩代的女性因為生育而退離職場這張圖上面深紫色的線為臺灣各年齡層女性的勞動參與率圖顯可以很明顯的看出臺灣的特殊性臺灣25到29歲的女性勞參率高達九成"},{"start":4392.572,"end":4406.859,"text":"但是一旦進入了婚育年齡之後有兩波的下滑第一波是30到40歲的婚育離職套勞動率重疊了10個百分點同一個年齡層黃色的線為瑞典瑞典反而是升高了7.6%"},{"start":4408.96,"end":4434.261,"text":"前紫色的是德國德國反而也是升高了4%再來第二波的離職潮是50歲以後的故孫離職潮我們的勞參率如土石流一般的暴跌50歲到64歲暴跌近50個百分點同一個年齡層的瑞典和德國下跌不到一半的比率這是導致臺灣跟其他國家產生巨大勞動力差距的"},{"start":4435.361,"end":4459.552,"text":"證明那其實台灣女性勞動力下滑的成因之一就是現行的育嬰假不足以因應有職家長的育兒需求育兒家長一定會遇到的兩大問題第一個每天接送孩子與通勤第二個孩子生病學校停課停課的狀況那大家也可以看到左邊的這個圖表其實育兒爸媽的年資前"},{"start":4459.892,"end":4484.583,"text":"特休假根本不夠用再來家庭照顧假無薪一年只有7天唯一明確可以用來支持家長育兒的育嬰假卻只能以月為單位而且只能用到小孩滿3歲有家長就說我的小兒子腸病毒隔天傳染給大的兩個孩子幾乎停課半個月我只能硬著頭皮用完特休再請試假福縣乾脆辭職了點頭"},{"start":4486.204,"end":4505.897,"text":"那其實呢 育嬰假彈性化是國際的趨勢這邊以德國為例來說明如果台灣的政策能夠適度的修正即能切實回應新世代家庭的需求其實德國在1986年設立了育嬰假當時他們跟台灣一樣把育嬰視為所謂的假期"},{"start":4506.497,"end":4530.189,"text":"他的立法目的是鼓勵了父母可以放棄工作全職回家育兒但是經歷了社會快速的變遷德國的政府發現長時間的育嬰留停並不是家長的偏好而且企業也有勞動力的需求再來他們的育嬰假其實也是僵化行政程序反覆的因而他們在2007年修法將育嬰假改稱為清職時間"},{"start":4532.45,"end":4552.823,"text":"他的目的轉為避免家長因為育兒而辭去工作而透過制度來支持父母可以更彈性的安排親職假那在這一波的修法之後政府持續用科學的方式來驗證政策的效果並觀察社會的需求他們透過了研究發現因為請親職時間會對工作產生劣勢所以只有5%的爸爸來申請這個如同台灣現在的比例"},{"start":4560.547,"end":4582.702,"text":"不是台灣現在比例,台灣現在比例情孕假的性別比例是非常懸殊的再來呢,媽媽確實是會等到子女長大之後再重返職場那這對照顧者來說發展出不可挽回的經濟劣勢這個使許多人延後建立家庭甚至是晚生育重點是年輕人世代追求的是雙工作雙照顧的模式"},{"start":4583.962,"end":4608.313,"text":"所以德國在2014年又進一步的修法讓親職時間可以更彈性幾夫的方式更多元甚至可以延長到子女3到8歲也就是國小低年級的階段那德國過去種種的困境就如同現在的臺灣德國因應了社會的需求他的修法歷經了21年歷經了7年而臺灣的育嬰留職停薪制度我們從2002年上路"},{"start":4610.034,"end":4612.195,"text":"政府應該要大刀闊斧的改革來制度性的回應社會的需求"},{"start":4625.419,"end":4650.56,"text":"那其實社會對於改革育嬰假的聲量是很大的勞動部調查近八成的受僱員工同意以日或小時來彈性使用育嬰假而且男性的比例是高於女性的他們的原因是可以更彈性的照顧子女同樣的有近五成的企業同意以日或小時來彈性使用育嬰假而且企業的規模越小同意的比例是越高的那今年勞動部其實委託了"},{"start":4653.162,"end":4672.813,"text":"委託研究其實也令我們值得開心的是﹐企業的支持聲量又更高了﹐7成以上的企業同意以小時跟日使用﹐無論是否為輪班性質的企業再來CEDAW的國際審查委員會也指出﹐台灣的育嬰假制度依舊很僵化﹐建議政府可以參考國際的經驗來設計有事和彈性的制度"},{"start":4676.996,"end":4695.689,"text":"使用的年齡上,不管是孩子3歲以前或3歲以後直至國小低年級,其實都有家長親自照顧跟接送的需求。為了回應家長,也應該要效仿瑞典或德國的制度,讓育嬰假或有薪親職假可以延長到小孩滿8歲之前。"},{"start":4698.051,"end":4724.444,"text":"總結來說 托蒙認為可行而且有效解決臺灣雙低困境的方案之一正是在育嬰留職停薪的制度中 增訂並併行有薪彈性親職假他是假的概念而不是留職停薪大家可以看圖上表示的家長今天如果想要長時間全職再加育兒他就用現行的育嬰留停但是如果家長想要以日或小時可以因應"},{"start":4725.744,"end":4742.805,"text":"可預期而且發生在殖民院8歲之前的需求例如送托時的適應期孩子要做早療或者是家長想要晚一點上班早一點下班來避開塞車接送或者是多一點時間陪伴孩子家長就可以用預排型的親職假"},{"start":4743.846,"end":4769.376,"text":"他提前預排請假的時間向僱主提出若僱主遇到企業經營上的急迫需求是可以跟員工協商調整共同討論出對雙方都好的模式那如果家長因為孩子生病學校停課停徒則可以於前一日提出申請那僱主端可以要求員工提出證明但不得拒絕否則孩子會落入無人照顧的困境"},{"start":4770.296,"end":4794.907,"text":"那最後呢其實剛剛提到的育嬰留職停薪跟親職假兩者的期間是合併計算的不改變現行家長有的權益但是給員工多一個選擇我們認為這樣子的修法可以創造出支持勞工適留職場支持企業有穩定的人力也支持家長不分性別可以輪流參與育兒形成這樣子多贏的效果謝謝大家"},{"start":4796.472,"end":4799.055,"text":"各位與會者主席 大家好 我是宛如基金會的研發專員陳竺儀"},{"start":4820.699,"end":4839.867,"text":"因為剛剛允惠者其實有提到說我們現在已經有家庭照顧假可是其實大家可以稍微想一下其實對於現在的育兒家庭來說假不夠用永遠都是一個最大的挑戰在這邊大家可以先假想像自己有兩個小孩"},{"start":4840.467,"end":4863.297,"text":"那就是如果在長病毒停托的時候你自己的那個特休跟試假到底可以度過幾次的長病毒那一般來說呢現在在幼兒園的話呢那一般只要有兩位小孩他如果在一個禮拜之內他確診長病毒的話班上就要停課了那只要遇到長病毒的話呢基本上你要有5天的假可以去因應啦那"},{"start":4865.589,"end":4882.18,"text":"所以大家看一下喔就是如果家庭照顧假的話因為他並不是假計算嘛全年就14天那特殊假的話就看你在這個公司有待多久那其實我們假設說如果我是一個工作七八年的勞工的話那我大概就是有15天的假"},{"start":4882.6,"end":4908.678,"text":"那這樣子看起來好像可以度過三次的停課可是呢家長的噩夢不是這樣就是呢如果你現在有二寶嘛那你好不容易撐過了一個孩子的正常的班上的停課日結果在停課日的前夕呢我自己的孩子又開始發燒了天啊又要繼續停然後呢更慘的是呢我好不容易二寶的停託日已經結束了結果呢發現大寶也中標了那怎麼辦呢"},{"start":4909.298,"end":4928.994,"text":"那所以你其實好不容易存下來的一個特休假其實根本就不夠然後呢雪上加霜就是呢其實也不只腸病毒啦如果突然就是孩子有時候那個身體狀況其實他不見得是生病可是他可能體溫比較高然後呢因為他發燒了就被退活了然後呢你"},{"start":4929.995,"end":4949.012,"text":"學校打電話來說你一定要有人去接嘛那即便好了就一般有後援的家庭來說我要請阿公阿嬤幫忙照顧其實我也是要安排的那要去接小孩可能就還是要父母啊那父母能夠臨時去接送嗎那這個部分其實通常都還是要父母自己去處理"},{"start":4951.943,"end":4980.298,"text":"那其實因為看到這樣子的困境啊我們民間團體呢其實就有這樣子的一個推動一個就是有薪彈性親職假的一個倡議那因為現在的家庭照顧假呢只有7天嘛那病入世假最多就是14天那再加上自己的特休如果沒有假的話我們能夠有什麼選擇其實對於工作者來說他就是會非常的掙扎"},{"start":4981.158,"end":5003.204,"text":"我要離職嗎?還是我要請很長時段的育嬰留停?可是大家也都知道當你長時間離開職場的時候你回來的時候你可能請個兩年之後你回來職場以後那個職場的狀況是你可以因應的嗎?其實現在的年輕父母就是在面臨這樣子的掙扎尤其呢現在的年輕女性就是在面臨這樣子的掙扎"},{"start":5004.794,"end":5031.436,"text":"那我到底我如果我現階段選擇離職我到底還能不能夠回來其實大家可以看得出來啊就是勞動部有相關的研究統計就是我們女性的就是回流的職場的這樣子的一個程度其實你要促進女性重返職場這個是非常困難那與其我們讓他離開我們為什麼不把他留住他那基於這樣子的一個想法呢"},{"start":5031.912,"end":5060.994,"text":"我們基金會聯合其他夥伴團體就是長期在推動這樣子的一個政策那其實在3年前我們就已經有開過一個公聽會了那同年我們也請了立法委員幫我們提案性共法跟救保法的修法然後在2024年的也就是今年的部分我們又再度結合了關心這個議題的委員然後幫我們提出這樣子的一個修法"},{"start":5062.523,"end":5086.428,"text":"那我們提出來的草案當中啊其實原本的育嬰留停制度不變也就是說如果就是工作者他自己的生涯規劃是覺得說我可以我評估我可以就是育嬰留停比較長的時段在家裡全職照顧小孩的話這個東西都還是存在的但是呢我們另外呢創造了彈性的親職假"},{"start":5088.268,"end":5103.407,"text":"那彈性親職假呢有兩種是為了要因應有不同的需求一種是預排型的一種是臨時型的那因為預排型呢你必須還是要考慮到雇主的人力調度需求所以如果家長有比較彈性的需求的話呢"},{"start":5104.168,"end":5127.261,"text":"他可以一次排定三個月的請假日同時為了跟現行嬰嬰留停的制度有一些區隔而且也考慮一般的職場運作所以我們其實會有一個月不得超過十日的限制然後另外因應我們的孩子生病停託的需求我們另外有推動一個臨時性的彈性親職假那這個部分其實親職假的彈性和靈活"},{"start":5133.504,"end":5154.784,"text":"其實不是我們民間團體自創的因為國外其實早就有相關的制度了那其實今年的勞動部呢其實也做了這樣子的就是彈性運營假的一個計畫那我們事業單位遇到困擾難道國外不會遇到嗎那國外制度是怎麼做到彈性的然後也因此呢我們就因為這樣子我們去"},{"start":5156.906,"end":5156.926,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5186.966,"end":5203.508,"text":"但是呢 僱主必須要有書面 而且是要就是要去正式的去提供一個延遲的理由那接下來是剛剛我們與惠哲有講到的就是有關於德國的經驗德國呢 他也有說 就是在一定次數以上的"},{"start":5204.368,"end":5221.534,"text":"呃就是親職時間呢企業呢他可以用一些急迫的理由去拒絕可是這個拒絕拒絕呢他必須要有理由的同時呢他不能夠表面上說我支持你我可以讓你請假但是你的一些呃配置方式呢我沒有辦法接受"},{"start":5222.674,"end":5233.762,"text":"而且呢受僱者在提供申請的時候他必須要有一些清楚的規劃所以呢其實受僱者他自己也知道如果我要申請通過我必須要跟僱主達成一個共識"},{"start":5235.526,"end":5252.331,"text":"接下來是瑞典瑞典呢如果我們看就是以一個瑞典農業大學為例我們如果上網去看他的人士告訴大家怎麼樣去申請彈性嬰假那他會告訴你說親職假的部分呢那你就是其實要在排休前必須要跟僱主協商日期"},{"start":5253.824,"end":5279.855,"text":"所以我們借盡國外的經驗我們建議在目前的修法裡面我們可以再加上兩個部分運牌型的親職假我們讓僱主可以基於企業上的急迫履歷的需求或是勞工的個人因素可以協商可是我們同時也規定了一項就是僱主如果你要拒絕之前你其實一定要踐行勞僱協商也就是我們一定要把勞僱協商這個機制放進"},{"start":5281.255,"end":5281.295,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":5299.72,"end":5325.149,"text":"所以呢對於本會來說我們認為呢並行有薪彈性親職假的修法其實家庭企業都有需求那目前已經也有修法版本了所以這個是非常可行的另外呢針對說到底我們的休假日可不可能到小時的部分其實現行的產檢假賠產假賠產檢假其實都已經有半日"},{"start":5325.629,"end":5348.204,"text":"或是消失那這個部分也是可以跟雇主協商的然後呢第三個部分呢我們認為有薪彈性親職假是是需求是區分育排型或臨時型然後甚至延長年齡申請這個申請年齡這個部分呢我們也覺得這個的確是有需求那如果我們可以用一個靈活的方式然後再加上"},{"start":5349.125,"end":5349.285,"text":"好 謝謝我們的陳專員"},{"start":5371.991,"end":5384.519,"text":"我先補介紹現到場的國立中正大學社會福利學系的王淑芸王副教授接下來我們請王育敏委員發言"},{"start":5392.114,"end":5400.059,"text":"我們今天出席的所有的專家學者還有媒體朋友大家好我想今天的公聽會這是一個非常重要的議題因為我們現在臺灣正面臨非常嚴重的少子化的議題這已經是國安層次的議題我們去年我們的新生人口數已經掉到"},{"start":5414.989,"end":5416.451,"text":"每年只新增13萬5571人相較於10年前2014年每年還有21萬383名的新生兒"},{"start":5427.455,"end":5431.858,"text":"主族少了9萬人這麼嚴重的一個人口的崩落跟滑落我覺得整個政府體系都要非常嚴肅的看待也就是因為這樣子我覺得我們去打造一個更友善的支持年輕朋友感生然後可以輕鬆養這樣的一個環境輕鬆當父母這個是政府沒有辦法迴避的課題所以今天這樣的一個有薪彈性的"},{"start":5457.434,"end":5464.7,"text":"親職假的增設我覺得非常的有必要而且我已經提出這樣的一個修法版本剛剛幾位專家學者代表講得非常好無論我們是從這個一個父母親子的角色來看待"},{"start":5471.926,"end":5482.475,"text":"增加有薪的這個親職假非常的有必要孩子的成長需要父母的陪伴所以尤其未來我們面對這麼嚴重的少子化讓父母有更積極的角色參與我覺得這一件事情是政府可以幫父母來達成的事情"},{"start":5491.082,"end":5491.242,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5513.832,"end":5517.033,"text":"提供他們一個更支持性的更有彈性的這樣的一個政策制度讓他在育兒跟工作之間真的可以達到完全的平衡所以這樣的一個增加有薪的彈性親職假他的必要性"},{"start":5533.857,"end":5559.163,"text":"其實是非常的重要那剛剛特別提到了德國的模式今年我也到德國去我真的覺得德國的制度是大家可以參考剛剛這個托蒙的發言人講得非常清楚德國這套制度他們其實也是經過了修正很多的法跟我們的制度就是要與時俱進那既然德國已經有一個這麼好的模式在前面告訴大家說他們從這個"},{"start":5561.627,"end":5561.927,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":5583.923,"end":5584.083,"text":"今天我讀了幾個"},{"start":5600.493,"end":5600.513,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5617.383,"end":5641.472,"text":"看過去的賠產假從無薪到有薪天數從5天到7天就不斷的增加都是由立法院這邊不斷的倡議結合我們民間的專家學者跟團體的力量我們一直推動那我想這一次的這個有薪的彈性的親職假也是我想我們立法院可以扮演一個發動機現在已經有多位委員包括我自己本身"},{"start":5642.012,"end":5660.888,"text":"已經都有版本那今天也有公聽會從剛剛聆聽到現在我想多數其實都是贊成這樣的一個制度跟走向的因為我們臺灣現在的環境的確也必須去修正我們僵化的制度了那更不要說勞動部自己做的這一個國發會做的這一個跟勞動部做的相關的調查裡面其實無論是勞動部自己最新的"},{"start":5668.876,"end":5671.585,"text":"調查裡面其實企業有超過半數也是支持"},{"start":5672.534,"end":5677.497,"text":"剛剛那個全教總講得很好他們其實已經落實所以從工作場域的觀點來看的話你讓他彈性請個幾個小時可以再回來到他的工作崗位反而這樣的影響是最少的就是你增加他的彈性之後他不用很僵化就是說我一請就是要請一整天你允許家長因為今天學校特別是這種臨時性的你就讓他兩個小時去然後他馬上處理完他就回來事實上對於工作的影響跟打擾其實是非常少的"},{"start":5701.934,"end":5707.856,"text":"所以剛剛全教總這個侯理事長他講的他們的模式其實走過了其實都是可行的那我覺得這個真的是我們政府要好好的來參照這件事情我們在立法院我本身我會大力的來推動因為我覺得這個就是一個對的方向給父母絕對的支持我想才可以讓他放心的去養育小孩我們也才有立場去鼓勵更多的年輕人說"},{"start":5730.385,"end":5746.711,"text":"麻煩你結婚麻煩你增產報國麻煩你多生小孩我覺得當政府的支持力到我們沒有做到位的時候我們是沒有資格去呼籲這些年輕人多生小孩的那如果政府也展現了某種的我們的決斷力然後願意去修正我們的法令給足年輕人支持不用你大聲呼籲他覺得說我這個生養環境很好生了小孩其實政府的支撐力倒是很強的他自己自然就會有意願"},{"start":5759.209,"end":5767.232,"text":"他其實就我們這個少子化的問題其實也可以相對的有效來減緩要不然我真的很擔心去年是13萬多如果政府再不提出一些友善的支持的政策跟方向的話人口再繼續的滑落這個國安問題我想這個是影響整體國家的國力知識體大所以值得我們用更大的力道我們來支持我們這些年輕爸媽養小孩不是他們的事情是政府"},{"start":5787.6,"end":5789.401,"text":"臺灣生育改革行動聯盟理事長許書慧 許理事長"},{"start":5817.998,"end":5820.521,"text":"臺灣勞工陣線副秘書長楊書偉"},{"start":5835.522,"end":5863.742,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位與會的先進大家好我是臺灣勞工政縣副秘書長楊書偉首先很感謝今天二環委員會舉辦這一場彈性育嬰假的這個公聽會那我想我會針對以下三點進行發言第一個是有關彈性第二個是有關於照顧責任的性別平等第三個部分既然我們談到的是有薪所以我想要談一下這個有關於這個裁員的這個部分"},{"start":5864.302,"end":5877.969,"text":"那我想我們在談彈性的時候我們也都非常的認同臺灣是一個以中小企業為主的這個國家那也中小企業也提供確實提供非常多的這個就業的這個機會可是我們在談彈性的時候我們在目前的勞動法令裡頭來講大部分都還是在談的是僱主的這個彈性包括像是我們的勞動基準法裡頭不管是所謂的變形工時或者是延長工時的這個挪移"},{"start":5893.737,"end":5912.734,"text":"大部分都還是站在顧主他的這個因應當忘記的這個部分那可是勞工的彈性到底在哪裡是非常重要的一個部分那特別是在臺灣我們現在在全球的這個浪潮裡面我們一直不斷的在談所謂的ESG的這個概念那國際上"},{"start":5913.615,"end":5928.182,"text":"很多的這個國家都已經實施相關的這個友善職場的這個部分可是在臺灣呢臺灣我們也都知道有一些友善的這個企業甚至甚至是民間團體NGO其實都已經在實施相關的這個彈性的這個政策讓他的員工去可以請這個所謂的彈性的這個價別那其實也都沒有發生什麼太大的這個"},{"start":5938.567,"end":5938.587,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":5958.755,"end":5984.826,"text":"公會同意那職場裡面沒有公會的話其實也都要有這個勞資會議裡頭去做同意特別是有關於特別休假的這個排定確實目前的特別休假是由勞工去進行發動的這個部分可是雇主他其實也都可以因為他的這個相關的特殊的狀況他其實也都可以跟勞工去協商有關於排定這個部分所以有關於協商的這個相關的這個機制"},{"start":5986.727,"end":5988.128,"text":"中小企業或企業沒有辦法做人員的"},{"start":6004.92,"end":6016.552,"text":"調動的這個部分的話的話我們都還是可以參考目前相關的制度其實都是有的那這個部分是不是我們也都必須跟我們的不管是企業或者是跟我們的勞工進行更多的這個溝通那其實"},{"start":6018.254,"end":6030.304,"text":"相關的制度都已經有相關的這個落實的這個部分第二個部分我想要談的是有關於照顧責任的這個性別平等我們從我們目前的這個就業保險我們來請這個育嬰留職的這個部分男性確實都還是佔著一個非常少數的這個狀況一直都佔著這個合法的這個總人數大概是五分之一也就是說有五個人請育嬰留職的這個部分只有一個是男性"},{"start":6046.178,"end":6049.659,"text":"那這狀況其實來講是非常非常的低表示我們目前都還是把照顧小孩的這個責任轉嫁給女性去做的這個承擔那我們看到是育嬰留職停薪津貼從2009年納入到這個舊保的法定級副項目裡頭以來我們有經歷過兩次比較大的這個放寬的這個部分第一個部分就是2014年的時候我們從原本的這個一年的這個部分"},{"start":6076.003,"end":6092.736,"text":"調降為6個月就可以申請那第二個部分呢則是2022年的時候夫妻可以同時的這個申請那任一方未就業也可以申請那同時在勞動部他也提出了這個育嬰的這個留職停薪的這個補助的這個要點把這個原本的"},{"start":6097.299,"end":6101.221,"text":"投保的這個60%再補這個20%到80%的這個部分那我們從這幾個比較放寬彈性的這個狀況裡頭去看確實男性在這兩波的浪潮裡面他確實有增加他願意去請這個育嬰留職的這個狀況特別是2022年這一次的放寬的這個部分我們看到是原本大概"},{"start":6122.574,"end":6140.837,"text":"人數大概都是停留在18%左右到了2022年的時候我們看到是人數大幅的提高到25%的這個狀況所以我們看到是彈性對於這個請領育嬰留職停薪來講他確實他的誘因可能來講是大的特別是對於男性他就願意更願意去請領這個"},{"start":6141.718,"end":6142.879,"text":"於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中"},{"start":6161.827,"end":6169.15,"text":"從就業保險他的這個法定的這個費率大概目前的狀況是1%到2%那目前長期以來都是維持這個1%的這個狀況可是我們可以看到是即使我們都是維持這個1%我們每一年我們的這個保險的這個收入大於支出都還超過這個70億到90億的這個狀況所以可以看到是這個財源目前來看他大概都還是非常的這個"},{"start":6189.699,"end":6190.579,"text":"以上的發言,謝謝"},{"start":6219.053,"end":6225.738,"text":"現在邀請到國家政策研究基金會的召集人 簡榮中 簡召集人"},{"start":6237.065,"end":6263.417,"text":"主席、各位委員還有與會先進大家早安我是國政基金會的簡榮忠我本身也是一個律師也是中小企業主所以或許會從不同的觀點來跟各位報告一下這個事情首先我覺得在所謂的提高勞動力參與或是經濟賦權鼓勵女性進入職場這個部分我們都是非常支持的"},{"start":6263.677,"end":6281.196,"text":"包括剛才王育民委員也講說對於要訂這個有薪彈性親職假這件事我覺得我們是支持的只是我在看這個議案的時候我自己有一些小小的問題第一個問題就是說那他到底是要置地"},{"start":6282.301,"end":6307.167,"text":"或是修法在什麼地方因為我看起來目前的規劃是在現行的育嬰留職停薪的制度當中去增訂那從法律人的觀點我就會覺得有點奇怪為什麼因為留職停薪它的概念第一個目前是比較長期的就是說你可能是最多兩年然後每次請半年"},{"start":6308.067,"end":6331.353,"text":"好那可是我們現在的彈性的這個親職假看起來是短期的是臨時的所以他他這個制度會不會有點衝突這第一個問題第二個留職停薪的重點是停薪啊雖然我們會有一些津貼在早期的時候但這個跟現在有薪親職假是不是也有點衝突就是說第一個我的疑問是"},{"start":6333.902,"end":6341.96,"text":"這個制度很棒也應該增訂但是不是要增訂在育嬰留停這邊我覺得會有點confuse第二個是那如果"},{"start":6343.339,"end":6372.53,"text":"我們現在又多出了一個有薪彈性親職假那會不會社會上可能也搞不清楚跟現在的家庭照顧假有什麼不一樣因為與會先進講的都是大概小孩突然生病然後有什麼事情要去處理那現在不是就有家庭照顧假了嗎那雖然有人會說因為現在家庭照顧假沒錢那沒問題那我們是不是修家庭照顧假讓他有錢就好了就是說"},{"start":6373.775,"end":6400.007,"text":"會不會被人家認為跌床架屋或是不同的名目不同的假期這個反而會造成社會上的支持度減損我覺得這個可以思考一下但我本人是贊成的我只是提出這是第一個問題那麼第二個問題就是在中小企業的角度去但我想剛才也有人報告台灣是以一個中小企業為主的經濟體制"},{"start":6401.664,"end":6401.844,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6417.638,"end":6444.641,"text":"就是說如果本來可以休半年那我們就申請一次那現在又變成日了又變成小時了那這樣企業要配合上會不會很繁瑣我需不需要專門的HR我們都知道5個人以下去哪裡找HR所以這個行政手續會不會太繁瑣這個要思考一下那第二個就是說那麼企業願意配合那工作總要有人做啊"},{"start":6445.714,"end":6469.549,"text":"那職務代理人大家會互相推諉啊為什麼他今天請假我就要做我領的薪水沒比他還多從其他員工的觀點可能會有這樣的concern所以我們也知道有一些公司呢他也鼓勵這個員工可以請這種所謂的這個有薪求職假或留職停薪但是他從獎勵職務代理人去著手"},{"start":6470.697,"end":6494.919,"text":"也就是其他員工不會抱怨了嘛不然你這個員工請假回來你同事給你臭臉說你看就是你突然跑出去兩天造成我工作變多所以我覺得從職務代理人他的一個獎勵去著手可能也是企業比較願意配合的一個觀點那當然這還會有裁員的問題大家可以思考一下"},{"start":6496.701,"end":6524.896,"text":"第三個也是從能不能解決問題去著手我覺得大家都覺得現在的少子化或是女性職場參與率低都是現在沒有有薪彈性求職假所造成的可是我們看到育嬰留職停制度也實施了蠻多年了我們也一直加大力道包括津貼提高到八成包括等等的"},{"start":6526.24,"end":6552.106,"text":"但我們的生育率有增加嗎?我們的資產參與率有增加嗎?包括勞動部試辦的所謂我們可以變成5天或7天為單位去申請這個試辦我看起來統計數據來申請的也很少也就是說當我們坐在這裡討論這個東西能夠改善生育率改善資產的參與率"},{"start":6555.748,"end":6565.661,"text":"真的會改善嗎?勞工真的要這個東西嗎?業界真的要這個東西嗎?還是像剛剛有賢錦提到的你不如補助我養小孩好了"},{"start":6567.014,"end":6592.421,"text":"我覺得這個更實際啊你這個給我錢讓我去友善養育可能更好啊比你有善職場更好啊所以回到我剛才講的就是說我個人支持這樣的一個制度但我覺得無論在法制的架構上或是實務的運作上可能大家都要多加思考才能夠讓這個制度推得更順利一點謝謝"},{"start":6595.947,"end":6599.849,"text":"今天很高興有這麼多的專家學者能夠一起共同來探討這個問題因為的確今年9月已經只剩下9萬多的話加上"},{"start":6625.575,"end":6654.603,"text":"明年要進入到超高齡社會的確讓人家覺得事實上是有所隱憂不過大家我覺得在過去一直以來像我自己身為一個女性一個女兒一個媳婦一個媽媽的角色的時候很常我跟女性一樣當孩子生下來之後我們很常面對到要不要中斷我的職癌那特別是在結婚有小孩那幾年就會面對到這樣的一個問題那過去我自己服務的機構"},{"start":6655.768,"end":6675.406,"text":"的年輕人夥伴也是這樣子直到現在也是這樣子那在2021年這個國家女性的勞參率那的確我們看到30歲就往下降回到我們自己的初婚年齡的話女性的初婚年齡大概30 31生小孩"},{"start":6676.826,"end":6699.177,"text":"所以這張圖就很可以解釋女性大概會因為要職場跟我們的在孩子家庭當中去做選擇可是我今天不想說只單一談這個因為沒有錯今天事實上是講的是彈性親職假可是很多時候很多孩子跟老人家的"},{"start":6699.734,"end":6718.351,"text":"壓力都擔負在我們一個女性的角色上所以照顧離職率也到達14.96%那原因就是因為要去照顧家人那這家人很廣泛可能事實上是小孩可能也是老人所以上有兒女上有父母蠟燭兩頭燒"},{"start":6723.054,"end":6743.782,"text":"一年有7天的年假 再加上14天的試假 可是如果講我的孩子生病了 所以有一年我自己的孩子進到幼兒園一年住院兩次 再加上碰到一次腸病毒 那我的假大概"},{"start":6744.266,"end":6744.446,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":6767.125,"end":6781.942,"text":"的確現在有家庭照顧假那事實上是沒有給薪的那過去一直以來是用育嬰的話是用我們的育嬰留職停薪那是針對有孩子生出來的時候我有半年的時間那給到六成薪"},{"start":6783.099,"end":6798.446,"text":"後來的確有加碼在2021年的時候加碼到八成新那時候我們在民間團體倡議的時候的確加碼了但更早之前我們還是期待事實上可比照瑞典到14個月甚至事實上到九成新不過政府在"},{"start":6798.973,"end":6817.073,"text":"才算的結果裡邊大概只給到八成心並沒有考慮拉倉只有拉高而已到2024年民間團體照樣的倡議說是不是可以試辦彈性嬰嬰假不過今天還是要提出有一個如果要講到女性的話我就要來談一個除了親職假還有個子職假"},{"start":6818.615,"end":6841.413,"text":"就是我要照顧我的長輩我們今天談的的確我剛剛提到前面的一個發言的確有產業的一個考量但我們今天單純在這邊只談到親職假到底會不會因為的確不會只有因為假而已可是假事實上是一個誘因甚至還有搭配的一些相關措施"},{"start":6841.843,"end":6861.835,"text":"包含給付相關的費用來達標那在事辦之後我們看到有些效果在也就是男性請假的人數增加了4萬上升比例大6%那達到25%來分擔掉女性的一些育嬰的壓力"},{"start":6862.642,"end":6863.382,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":6875.319,"end":6877.661,"text":"明年有先進去講過國外的經驗我們從這幾個國家連那個最男性主義者的日本都已經把"},{"start":6902.015,"end":6924.501,"text":"要求男性一定要來申請就是有四周的育嬰假父母雙方都可以申請這幾個國家可以看到一個是採用彈性工時或轉為部分工時來照顧不離職以外延長請假的年限父母共同承擔還有彈性的計價時數現行的跟勞動部的希望"},{"start":6930.277,"end":6945.736,"text":"勞動部也開始表示企業也不反對民間倡議的執理滿7歲以前還有以月、日、小時為單位尤其是小時他們需求可能會是比較高的話還有育嬰津貼為配套"},{"start":6947.037,"end":6971.024,"text":"那如果能夠朝向這樣方向做的話我覺得才有辦法去解決我們這樣問題看有沒有可能考慮把它時間拉長我如果孩子三歲以後才需要不限定一定要三歲以前不過顧得了嬰兒到兒童可是老人呢當然我們也有民間團體在倡議也就是有沒有可能有30天的有薪照顧假150天彈性假"},{"start":6972.985,"end":6998.135,"text":"這個未來我覺得也是一個勢在必行因為明年就走到超高齡所以我覺得建立家庭照顧體系可能幼兒的話給彈性親職假老人的話我們照顧老人有沒有長照準備假就是我剛剛講子職假臨時的是家庭照顧假那今天與會的提出來的法案的話我這邊也會來辦公室研究然後怎麼去共同來去做這樣子的修訂謝謝"},{"start":7002.206,"end":7009.211,"text":"謝謝 另外請立法委員發言下一位我們請國立臺北大學社會工作學陳芬寧教授發言"},{"start":7025.854,"end":7054.371,"text":"主席各位專家學者還有與會部會大家好那我是陳芬妮那我想今天的議題針對今天的議題提供專家學者的意見那我想在提供專家學者意見的時候我需要提出一些疑問就這一次的修改主要是希望是短工時的臨時假的那第二個部分就是有薪那我需要釐清的是說親職假本來可能需要思考是說本來的定義是什麼第二個它是不是符合good governance就是說"},{"start":7054.711,"end":7054.751,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":7079.586,"end":7079.746,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7104.602,"end":7121.734,"text":"但是要看我們執政者後面的理念是什麼這個後面的理念必須要是一致的我們不然信公法裡面每一個條文後面的理念都不一致我們會去參考德國、瑞典、韓國難道別人不會來參考我們嗎到時候人家來參考我們的時候發現我們信公法每一條的後面是亂的都是從不同的國家copy來的這條是從瑞典copy來的"},{"start":7129.139,"end":7153.726,"text":"另外一條從那個德國copy來的這樣子我們不會造成一個國際的笑話嗎所以我同意我也贊成說育兒的成本不應該由家庭來單獨來負擔但是我們如果從後面的理念來看的話到底執政者你要把我們帶到哪裡去如果說你100%是由家庭來負擔就像過去台灣的樣貌一樣我們沒有育兒津貼育兒留職停薪也甚至沒有薪水的產價"},{"start":7154.566,"end":7174.869,"text":"現在的家庭主婦是沒有薪水的產價的第二個如果說你是100%由企業來負擔我們就該推動的是全新的產價還有全新的育兒留職停薪你會不會發現在每一個樣貌裡面都發現我們的這邊有一點那邊有一點所以我們後面理念是不一致的"},{"start":7175.45,"end":7204.098,"text":"第三個如果說你100%要有國家負擔的話那就請國家用稅收去提供豐富的育兒津貼然後或是提供甚至在歐盟的地方它是其中家庭津貼的你如果願意留在家裡面顧小孩你是有足夠的家庭津貼讓你留在裡面的那就是國家支持傳統母親的角色那但是還有一個mix的模式如果你覺得說你是贊成是由國家跟家庭共同來分攤的"},{"start":7205.078,"end":7221.728,"text":"就請國家從稅收裡面提供定額,它不是一個跟你的薪水是沒有連結的,它是服從定額的育兒津貼或是生育津貼,而且開辦品質良好的公共托育,那就像我們的總公托的模式一樣"},{"start":7222.808,"end":7238.023,"text":"如果說你是由企業跟家庭要共同負擔的那我只能提供半薪或是半薪的育兒留職停薪就像目前我們的育兒留職停薪一樣因為他這段時間勞工畢竟沒有提供真正的勞動力付出所以他其實是不應該拿到全薪的"},{"start":7238.624,"end":7267.59,"text":"那最後如果你想要育兒責任應該由國家企業或全體的勞工來分攤的話那你該實施的是像北歐瑞典所實施的親職保險是由所有的勞工一起來繳保險那這個保險費裡面包括企業跟國家也有部分的負擔那麼所有的東西所有因為育兒所產生的成本包括產價包括生育給付包括育兒今天包括今天所討論的育嬰留職停薪或甚至是兒童生命假"},{"start":7268.05,"end":7290.508,"text":"都是從裡面去支付的這樣子其實企業界也會比較同意所以我們到底育兒責任該由誰來負擔其實是要講清楚的今天所提供的兩個調查資料其實上面都很重要的是上面是講育兒留職是停薪喔如果你今天變成是有薪的企業是不是一樣同意這是值得去懷疑的"},{"start":7290.748,"end":7307.58,"text":"另外就是說所有的政策都是要有學理背景的今天如果你要用親職假這個名稱的話那就要去了解親職假這個名稱到底它的定義是什麼就即使是從維基百科來講它都是一個為了照顧子女所請的長期休假"},{"start":7308.44,"end":7326.129,"text":"就我本身過去的理解來講它也是一個長期休假所以基本上不會有人把Parental leave這樣的一個名詞是拿來用來做短信的所以在國外其實是有一個Child sick leave子女生病假它其實比較接近台灣的家庭照顧假的模式"},{"start":7327.591,"end":7353.298,"text":"那麼這一次的修法又要提到說要修改子女直到8歲請問學理的基礎是什麼跟我們臺灣的法令可不可以去match可不可以符合就是所有的制度都是鑲嵌在每一個社會裡面它原本的文化或原本的制度當中其實是沒有辦法直接從其他國家copy過來copy過來的話其實是沒有辦法去說服大家的在臺灣其實是從6歲"},{"start":7356.019,"end":7382.484,"text":"比較適合定在6歲或直接定在12歲否則你怎麼去說服人家你跟其他法是有一致性的那其實育兒其實要考慮到的是他後面零散化如果你把育兒假零散化你後面要造成的成本我曾經聘過育兒留職停薪的員工聘了三個月因為我是公家機關我必須要有符合我法規的聘人三個月後這個人終於來了那個原來育兒留職停薪的人說他要提早回來"},{"start":7382.924,"end":7410.543,"text":"我只好讓他回來再把人fire掉然後回來以後過了七天他的小孩頭撞到他就說他要繼續再停育兒留職停薪我又再花三個月再去請一個這個職務代理人過來所以你實務上實際上你到底在企業界你要怎麼去運作這個是值得大家去思考我最後這種短短時間去講清楚我的理念我覺得說你既然要用育兒留職停薪假請你維持它是一個長假模式你用親職假的模式也不太恰當"},{"start":7411.824,"end":7428.161,"text":"其實我比較贊成說你修改現在的法定的家庭照顧假我們已經有這個假在裡面你可以改成有薪的家庭照顧假你可以延長家庭照顧假的期間你也可以擴大家庭照顧假所包含的範圍像剛剛很多委員或很多來賓所提到的"},{"start":7428.882,"end":7428.902,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7449.231,"end":7452.654,"text":"謝謝陳教授的發言接下來我們邀請到國立政治大學勞工研究所的劉梅君 劉教授"},{"start":7477.745,"end":7502.485,"text":"主席以及各位先進大家好我想今天這個議題在座沒有人會反對大家都可以認知到臺灣的勞工在這個就業市場裡頭事實上是長工時高負荷然後低彈性以至於今天才會有這樣的一個問題產生問題是要怎麼修怎麼修法才能夠我也不希望說我們"},{"start":7503.986,"end":7507.808,"text":"其實幾位先進也提到了我們其實現在有好幾種法好幾種這個制度嘛包括我們這個育嬰假還有我們的這個育嬰減少工時然後再有這個家庭照顧假那在既有的這樣的一個已經有的這個措施裡頭那我們還可以怎麼樣做以至於我們才可以把今天這個勞動者所面臨到的這種育兒的這個困境可以把它降低甚至是解除"},{"start":7529.677,"end":7529.697,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7546.953,"end":7562.109,"text":"這樣的一個做法可能未必有利於這個特別是育嬰期間的這個家長或是育嬰特別是育嬰期間的婦女好因為大家想哇又來了好那等一下這個生了孩子然後又要請假等等的然後呢那個請假又不是很規律這對於我們這個雇主來講的確是一個很大的這個"},{"start":7563.71,"end":7563.73,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7589.321,"end":7589.601,"text":"財務、私職、人力、品質、勞動條件的把關"},{"start":7610.174,"end":7638.834,"text":"特別是我們的婦女團體或是我們這個很關心兒童的這個團體一定是毫無疑問的因為唯有如此我們家長才能夠無後顧之憂也唯有如此那麼勞方他才不會為了要育兒然後犧牲這個職業生涯然後也一樣企業呢因為如果我們國家是大力的在這個托育公共化上面負起責任的話那麼我們也可以免去員工為了因為要照顧孩子所以企業就可以免去"},{"start":7639.814,"end":7640.315,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7664.372,"end":7690.973,"text":"今天我們來討論這個問題可能也同時要同步檢討臺灣的這個勞動力市場實在是過於僵硬的這個問題當然我也知道我們勞動部在過去在推動這個友善職場的這樣的一個政策然後希望能夠攬財留財那這件事情的確是需要有非常多的配套當然我們今天就是還是回到我們今天談到這個因有而照顧的這個部分就像我剛剛說了"},{"start":7692.094,"end":7720.427,"text":"我們現在的這個法令裡頭其實對於嬰兒照顧的這個勞動政策裡面有育嬰假有家庭照顧加有這個育嬰減少公式我想這邊法律就大家都知道我們就不太談了那當然雖然有那些東西可是現行規定裡面的確是難以滿足這個育兒家庭的這個需求嘛譬如說育嬰假它彈性太低了你每一次原則上每一次不能低於6個月例外是也不得低於30天這樣看起來對於有一些臨時性的它就沒有辦法處理了"},{"start":7721.872,"end":7751.001,"text":"當然我們也有這個家庭照顧假不過因為全年才7天的確是太少了沒有辦法因應這個家庭成員重大的事故或是這個嚴重的疾病或是這個預防接種而且是沒薪的無薪的那另外一個那個育嬰減少工時或者調整工時這件事情因為每天就是一個小時雖然我也看到有些企業他很棒他會給員工不只一個小時有兩個小時的甚至那個減少工時他還給給薪他不是完全不給薪不過那樣的企業實在太少了"},{"start":7751.641,"end":7751.661,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7773.082,"end":7797.128,"text":"我們也看到過去勞動部每一年都會做這樣的調查調查我們也看到其實有很多員工的使用率非常非常低所以很低的原因有一部分是因為員工會優先請特休有薪的特休或是病假可是事實上特休跟病假不應該是這樣來利用的所以的確我們要另想別的方法來處理這件事情"},{"start":7798.228,"end":7824.826,"text":"以日會小食為單位的這個有薪彈性親職假到底要解決什麼樣的問題那我們看起來就是剛剛說到我也會覺得跟有前面的這個先進所提到的以日會小食為單位來做的話它會跟我們現在家庭照顧假跟育嬰減少工時有一些有這個高度重疊那當然我們也知道我們現在主張是要有薪嘛那那個家庭照顧假育嬰減少工時是無薪的那這部分當然是可以"},{"start":7825.686,"end":7825.706,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":7845.543,"end":7872.026,"text":"一個無薪的狀態你可以請譬如說我是要全部請或是我要二分之一請或我要四分之一請所以我在育嬰同時我還是可以繼續保留這份工作這不是用全職的方式來工作那這部分可能是勞動部過去都很堅持它是一個育嬰留停可是我覺得如果我們要給它一個更大的一個這個彈性的時候那這邊也許就是那個育嬰留停那個停可以重新做這個考量"},{"start":7873.647,"end":7874.008,"text":"現在休息10分鐘"},{"start":8582.147,"end":8582.448,"text":"黃健豪委員"},{"start":8602.927,"end":8629.707,"text":"好 謝謝主席在場的所有委員及各位這個專家學者先進大家早安首先是要感謝我們李淵琴召委安排今天的這個這個公聽會來談論這個有薪彈性親職假的可行性那當然一開始要先談到為什麼今天會在這邊談論這個有薪彈性親職假的這個可行性的公聽會呢我想最主要也是因為現代社會的結構尤其年輕的家庭多數都是這個雙薪家庭"},{"start":8630.327,"end":8657.775,"text":"那雙薪家庭之外也是因為一個人的薪水可能養不起全家那我想這件事情整個國家社會都有共同的責任所以我想在這個事情上面國家的確是應該要有一些道義來處理這個問題讓現代的家庭他能夠感生能養也同時能夠保有工作那剛剛前面有幾位專家學者提到說包含中小企業擔心擔心所謂大缺工時代如果再放這個有薪的"},{"start":8658.395,"end":8677.806,"text":"彈性親職假會加劇這個所謂缺工的問題影響但是我們要強調缺工問題在本質上它是有替代方案的那另外一件事情是就是因為缺工為什麼會缺工就是因為我們的這個家庭的問題很多的家庭他因為要照顧小孩他不得不放棄工作所以他離開職場"},{"start":8679.187,"end":8704.348,"text":"那如果因為怕擔心說要放這個親職家庭照顧假而讓這個家庭裡面有任何一方不能去工作的話我想他會導致的結果是大家會可能為了工作反而不願意生小孩這我想也是臺灣的現狀也是我們為什麼這個即便今年是農年的情況上面還是有面臨這麼強烈的少子化的問題那如果這個少子化的問題加劇下去"},{"start":8704.808,"end":8704.828,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":8722.54,"end":8743.928,"text":"這個臺灣的主要的這個經濟體的確是中小企業但是我們在基層在地方上很明顯的知道目前所謂的育嬰留停這件事情在5人以下的中小企業實務上到底有多少人能夠請尤其是婦女的部分到底有多少人敢請半年以上到2年的育嬰留停"},{"start":8744.508,"end":8757.564,"text":"他請了之後他的工作是不是就不復存在所以這是實務上的問題那也就是回到第一個問題就如果我會因為請孕孕留庭導致我的工作不復存在的話那我乾脆不要生那乾脆不要生所以這個勞動力就馬上"},{"start":8759.5,"end":8760.541,"text":"中小企業是非常困難去談到這問題的"},{"start":8781.664,"end":8796.599,"text":"最近勞動部有推動的所謂彈性育嬰假制度當然這可能也是為了去解決剛剛提到的要長期請半年以上的育嬰留停它產生的問題但實際上到底成效如何我想也要等到這個事辦結束之後才能看到結果但是我們到目前來講根據統計目前全國只有89家公司單位提出申請"},{"start":8803.126,"end":8826.454,"text":"我想全臺灣的事業單位或公務器官不會只有89家但是也只有89家提出來就表示這件事情還是沒辦法實際上的解決工作跟照顧小孩這件事情上面它實際上面臨產生的問題所以到底要彈性育嬰留職停薪比較好呢還是新增所謂的親職假或者放寬家庭照顧假比較好我想可以做一個簡單的討論"},{"start":8828.086,"end":8855.783,"text":"第一個當然育嬰留職停薪對本席來講對我們一般人的概念來講他是一個有計劃性長期的去顧小孩去照顧小孩就算即便現在所謂的彈性這個育嬰留停的部分他也必須提早5天去申請但是就是因為他需要計劃性他需要提早去做這件事情所以他本質上在現階段來講很多時候照顧小孩就我覺得我在這邊其實是有很有一個代表性就是因為自己有這個所謂3歲的小孩"},{"start":8856.744,"end":8874.68,"text":"那所以這種年輕家庭最大的問題就是說就像前面也有人提到的當學校一突然放假的時候不管是因為腸病毒全班停課還是你自己小孩生病因為發燒臨時要停課這個彈性育嬰留職停薪他是沒辦法處理這件事情的他必須透過"},{"start":8875.601,"end":8889.082,"text":"所謂的親職假或者是透過所謂家庭照顧假才能夠來處理所以這部分我們在今天開公聽會特別講到希望說在親職假跟家庭照顧假上面能夠做一定的放寬或者是新增相關的這個問題"},{"start":8890.965,"end":8919.028,"text":"因為家庭照顧假現階段是說如果家庭成員預防接種發生嚴重疾病或其他重大事故要親自照顧的時候才能夠請所謂家庭照顧假而且一年只有7天為限但實際上來講以我這個女兒開學以來到現在停課的次數已經超過了7天如果我們沒有這樣子的經濟能力去處理問題的話其實多數的雙薪家庭他面臨到小孩一直在放假這件事情他沒有人可以照顧小孩他是有造成很大的困擾"},{"start":8919.748,"end":8947.945,"text":"所以實際上就很多年輕的家家乾脆就直接辦離職就離開了職場所以我們希望說在家庭照顧假第一個要把家庭照顧假的這個條件來把放寬不一定僅限於這個重大事故或者發生嚴重疾病而是如果有年幼子女需要親自照顧的時候可以請家庭照顧假這部分我也提出相關的修法那另外以至性外所謂親職假因為目前我們提到留職停薪這部分也是限於3歲以下"},{"start":8948.465,"end":8948.605,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":8978.546,"end":8980.751,"text":"那最後還是要回到這個職場的問題"},{"start":8982.725,"end":9010.158,"text":"如果今天不管是中小企業也好或大企業也好包含之前的調查也好如果今天能夠有所謂親職假或是家庭照顧假的放寬彈性使用我不用真的離開職場我也能夠同時兼顧我的工作也兼顧我的家庭我想這對企業主對工作來講對國家社會的生產力來講或對每一個家庭的照顧來講才是一個三贏的這個方案所以希望這個修法能夠順利的推動也希望各位專家學者繼續提供寶貴意見謝謝"},{"start":9012.827,"end":9018.541,"text":"好 謝謝黃建豪委員的發言接下來我們請婦女新知基金會秘書長秦玉榮秘書長發言"},{"start":9026.352,"end":9052.806,"text":"黃委員、各位在場的委員、各位賢警大家好婦女薪資基金會支持有薪彈性這個親職假的修法也就是說我們希望讓原本以月為單位的這樣的一個使用的育嬰留職停薪可以多一個選項就是以小時或以月為單位來請假那我們也同意修法讓育嬰留職停薪跟親職假這個放寬他的申請期限到小孩8歲之前那最關鍵的考量當然就是家長的需要"},{"start":9053.386,"end":9081.308,"text":"現在國小一二年級的家長很多其實還是上半天課他下半天是有安心接受需求以及可能發生很多零星的這個需要及時處理的狀況那還有就是有些早療需求的家庭他們的家長就是需要比較長期然後固定的請假那家長也會有臨時照顧需求例如說長病毒停課今年就非常的嚴重那或者是小孩突然不明原因發燒就要馬上被接走這個是目前托孕中心跟幼兒園普遍的一個規定"},{"start":9082.689,"end":9104.827,"text":"為了這些事請假還要被扣薪水或者是要犧牲自己請特休假這個休養生息的時間這其實是在懲罰養育幼兒的家長而且這個部分多數是女性在承擔我曾經聽過資深的托嬰中心的主任說過他們為了防疫他們每個小孩每天進托嬰中心之前都要把嘴巴打開看喉嚨然後有白點"},{"start":9105.547,"end":9105.908,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":9130.911,"end":9156.405,"text":"雖然我們可以說這個家好像蠻沒有功德心的但是我們其實很認真的要看到這個家長的動作是有多無助的今天孩子他沒有辦法送托他可能就少一天的薪水而且如果真的是確診腸病毒他一隔離就是七天因為我們只算工作日好了這個家長馬上就是掉五天的薪水那我們家其實有個五歲的小孩他上個月才確診腸病毒很不幸他還是學校裡被第一個通報的"},{"start":9157.506,"end":9174.031,"text":"所以他自己就先停課了7天好不容易等到他可以去學校的前一天他們學校就又通報了兩個確診的案例所以全校停課然後我的小孩就停了兩週的課總共10天我們一個家長一年的家庭照顧假還要扣薪的喔然後就被用完了然後還不夠這樣子"},{"start":9175.111,"end":9191.703,"text":"所以我就在想萬一我跟我老公都是生在這個很難請假的職場或者是我們的薪水都比較低又沒有什麼假然後假設我們是這樣的職場新鮮人那我們該怎麼辦那萬一我是單親的家長我又該怎麼辦光一波的腸病毒就這麼慘了那一年還不止一波那要怎麼辦呢"},{"start":9192.904,"end":9211.16,"text":"政府今天其實是就是要求家長要負擔防疫的義務那就應該要給予家長基本的相對應的保障收入跟請假的權利那讓育嬰假可以彈性請假這其實是最容易達成的方法因為整體來說今天我們提的這樣的一個新增親職假的修法其實並沒有跟動"},{"start":9213.001,"end":9241.45,"text":"任何津貼的支出並沒有更動這個支出也沒有增加任何一天的假這些育嬰留職停薪這些假跟津貼本來就是勞工可以使用的權利所以其實這樣的一個是一個非常簡單的改革但是這個簡單的改革它就可以幫助很多家長因應非常多的情況可以減輕蠟燭兩頭燒的痛苦那台灣現在家長普遍面臨時間貧窮的困境這樣的改革訴求我們認為是非常基本的甚至可以說是很卑微的訴求"},{"start":9242.47,"end":9267.137,"text":"為了讓育嬰假可以彈性使用另外一個重要的考量其實是促進性別平等OECD各國現在都面臨人口快速變遷的壓力許多國家是非常的密集在改革育嬰假而且近年的改革重點都是放在要支持男性使用育嬰假要減輕女性的養育負擔和減少這個女性就業的衝擊以及改變不平等的照顧分工舉例來說南韓的育嬰假在1995年到2021年總共26年之間改了12次"},{"start":9270.618,"end":9285.614,"text":"他們在2014年的時候就已經把育嬰假的使用期限延長到小孩8歲了那在2015年之後的4次改革重點都放在提高男性的育嬰假使用率台灣的育嬰假從2002年上路以來已經過了22年值經歷過2007年、2009年、2014年跟2021年4次的改革所以跟其他國家"},{"start":9293.442,"end":9307.438,"text":"相比對於我們要怎麼改革孕婦假讓孕婦假更能夠支持平等的照顧分工以及讓孕婦假怎麼樣對親子來說更好用或者是降低孕婦假的請假門檻讓更多人可以使用這一個部分的努力台灣其實非常的不積極"},{"start":9308.339,"end":9336.13,"text":"今天公聽會大家聚集在這裡我們期待這個狀況是可以改變的那要怎麼確保育嬰假制度有促進性別平等的效果呢因為現在許多國家都非常密集的在改革育嬰假現在累積起來的經驗告訴我們兩個關鍵的改革方向一個就是育嬰假的薪資替代率要提高他越高男性請假的比例就越高那只要是要扣薪的假或者是例如半薪的假最後都會變成是女性在請那導致這樣的假其實喪失了促進照顧平等分工的效果"},{"start":9336.65,"end":9361.1,"text":"例如現在勞工請的家庭照顧假就是扣全薪而且請的人很少大部分是女性在使用所以我們希望這樣的一個家是最好不要扣薪水的那另外一個促進性別平等改革的方向就是開放彈性使用育嬰假例如讓家長以小時或以日為單位來請假如此一來使用育嬰假制度的男性也會增加這裡分享一個2023年很新的研究是威延娜大學的兩位經濟學者他們用"},{"start":9361.56,"end":9385.654,"text":"澳地利運價制度改革的實證數據去做出來的結果因為澳地利他先後改革了運價這個制度他包括提高薪資替代率跟放寬彈性請假他們都做了這兩位學者想要知道國際上都說這兩個做法對性別平等最好那有沒有其中哪一個做法是比另外一個做法效果更好他們發現減少請假的這個所得損失也就是說提高薪資替代率"},{"start":9386.074,"end":9405.593,"text":"他雖然可以鼓勵更多男性使用育嬰假但是還是沒有辦法改變女性請假期間比較長然後男性請假期間比較短以及照顧分工不均的現象他們發現雖然提高性質替代率是必要的但是要鼓勵男性更長期更積極的使用育嬰假最關鍵的改革其實就是同時增加請假的彈性"},{"start":9407.614,"end":9420.238,"text":"臺灣在2021年內波暈假改革只是微幅的把暈留職停薪從投保薪資6成提高到8成是投保薪資不是實職薪資只是投保薪資那所有的暈假勞工中男性的佔比就從16%一路的"},{"start":9422.219,"end":9439.521,"text":"快速飆升到25%雖然離國際上追求40%甚至到50%的橫頻比例還有一段很長的距離但是我們從臺灣的經驗就可以知道我們是可以相信制度改革的力量那我們知道勞動部目前在進行這個彈性嬰假的事辦計畫但是因為目前法規上"},{"start":9440.121,"end":9467.574,"text":"還是定位它叫做所謂的這個留職停薪所以僱主在這個通報跟申請程序上非常的繁複那使用門檻太高所以還是希望立法院這邊可以盡速通過修法直接以親職假來處理我們就不需要這麼頻繁的這個手續那也希望勞動部未來在行政程序上能夠盡力的減少僱主跟受僱者申請使用的不便這件事我們其實在今年3月這個事辦計畫上路之前就已經在勞動部的會議上面提醒過"},{"start":9468.334,"end":9469.334,"text":"謝謝秦育榮秘書長的發言接下來我們請陳金輝委員發言"},{"start":9498.908,"end":9516.968,"text":"主席各位學者專家還有各位委員各位官員大家好我是陳景輝委員但我同時也是一個婦產科還有不孕症的醫師以及我是一個不孕症的患者所以生育是我的專業也是我的專長我常常跟很多個案因為我的個案都比較高齡"},{"start":9518.109,"end":9540.01,"text":"他們面對工作的壓力然後高齡下生育以後就會常常詢問我關於生育以後如何要兼顧職場的困擾那其實我本人也常常在思考說像我目前生在這麼高壓的工作職場下要如何再願意生下一胎因為我本人也是有意願可以再生下一胎的"},{"start":9540.43,"end":9555.877,"text":"所以今天呢非常關注我們國家整體的生育政策包括我們現在要討論的親職假因為我也常常是這個小孩生病的受害者那過去在委員會我就有許多發言議題都是關於育兒友善生育促進的"},{"start":9556.577,"end":9556.697,"text":"公聽會委員"},{"start":9586.417,"end":9609.555,"text":"好首先我們講到人口危機我知道早上超級多委員都已經講到我們的生育率是如何的低迷但分成兩類一類是不想生一類是生不出來不能生我通常我自己的專業是在解決不能生的這一塊可是今天親職假我們要討論的是不想生剛也有講到腸病毒腸病毒為例呢"},{"start":9611.196,"end":9636.682,"text":"這個到3歲到10歲都是一個好發期一發病就是建議要請假7天那我更慘因為我有三個所以我一個重腸病毒我就要有心理準備再來就是第二個第三個家長就必須要待在家裡陪他可是我的狀況沒有辦法所以我要送到我公婆家那這三個都中了以後再來就是我公婆會跟著感冒所以就對這個請假真的是一個很大的困擾"},{"start":9637.702,"end":9653.947,"text":"只有年休十幾天的家長來說根本就不可能負擔這樣子的請假再來我們要深挖誰來顧小孩這樣子的問題過去我也質詢過男性的孕育假比例在2022年是因為我們的疫情所以創下新高25%"},{"start":9655.928,"end":9655.948,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":9673.438,"end":9696.408,"text":"參與率只有51%甚至在50歲以後大幅下滑的原因所以說如果沒有提供親職假不但是不想生不願意生家長沒有穩定的工作環境那現在大家開始追求平等自我實現等等在現在的制度下犧牲的就是我們的勞參率生育的意願還有人口成長率"},{"start":9697.048,"end":9719.197,"text":"好那當然大家很關注的就是這件事情的可行性我舉國外的例子來說等等我也要跟很多丹麥的國會議員一起交流我也想要跟他們談論這樣子的議題彈性的親職假我們有瑞典的案例這個早上有委員講過了讓家長在孩子12歲以前靈活的運用480天的假期"},{"start":9719.697,"end":9720.597,"text":"我今天帶了一個英國的土卡"},{"start":9738.372,"end":9763.55,"text":"讓英國的夫妻可以自由的調配假期也可以在制度設計中傳達雙親共同養育責任這樣子的觀念那這個圖卡的意思就是說他2013年針對OECD國家1970到2010年的研究休假影響就會發現親職假對於平衡家庭工作還有提升生育率有正面的影響這張圖是在講說"},{"start":9766.051,"end":9783.264,"text":"英國在1999年推出親職假以後紅色的線是生育率藍色的線是活產率你就會發現他的生育率活產率就在推出親職假這個時間點以後才開始上升不然他之前也是很衰弱"},{"start":9784.185,"end":9801.782,"text":"那綜上所述呢現在臺灣面臨勞動力流失和人口減少的問題如果我們可以透過完善的輕職假制度來回應包括到8歲以前都能夠有輕職假遇到突發狀況可以彈性請假小時制的制度"},{"start":9802.242,"end":9819.705,"text":"通過這些措施來減少勞動市場的性別刻板印象造成女生勞動力流失也增加父母雙親的生育意願才能回應現在最起搏的勞動力跟生育的問題最後我也想提一下我們常聽到勞動部部長"},{"start":9820.666,"end":9843.161,"text":"告訴我們說這個會影響企業的營運認為不可行所以單就這次討論提綱的臨時行彈性親職假討論擔心影響公司的營運那就忽略了我剛前面講到的育兒突發狀況也會持續造成我們的勞工朋友在育兒跟工作間的掙扎最後不管是"},{"start":9843.621,"end":9846.244,"text":"公聽會 勞動部 行政院各部會可以看到勞工需求"},{"start":9860.018,"end":9861.519,"text":"謝謝陳金輝委員的發言 接下來請王振旭委員發言"},{"start":9891.583,"end":9911.456,"text":"謝謝主席我想今天的公聽會很感謝黃昭偉安排這樣的公聽會真的非常有意義那針對是否修法來增設有新的彈性親職假這個部分我相信透過很多專家委員還有包括公民團體的這些討論對於修法"},{"start":9914.878,"end":9934.648,"text":"應該會有更多的縮遠的考慮那當然這部分還有很多的程序要進行不會在進度上有那麼快的部分那本期想要針對近期所推的彈性育嬰假來說明畢竟要修正相關的這個育嬰留職停薪實施辦法在程序上還是比較便捷一點"},{"start":9935.492,"end":9959.869,"text":"那就勞動部跟目前我們從媒體上所看到的資料可以整理的知道我們在2023年申請育嬰留職停薪的件數是51.1萬件那從我們所研究發現2023年事實上出生的嬰兒有13.5萬人這麼多那如果按照這個父母都可以申請請領6個月的狀況之下"},{"start":9962.33,"end":9976.818,"text":"應該會有162萬件的這個情侶的需求可是事實上只有三成的這些父母來申請表示說這個申請量真的是還有提升的空間我們希望能夠多瞭解一下"},{"start":9977.758,"end":9997.848,"text":"為什麼只有三成的這些父母他來願意來做這方面的申請那除了這個申請量以外那我們也想要了解的就是那在男女的性別的這個申請部分比例也明顯的是不一樣的男性才只有兩成五不到"},{"start":9998.688,"end":10026.947,"text":"明顯的失衡這一部分是他們不願還是不敢申請相關的留職停薪的情形勞動部的統計資料裡面似乎只能看到表面的數字相關的原因不是那麼清楚所以即使本席也希望勞動部應該做一些專案研究多了解看看為什麼男女的申請比例會有這麼大懸殊的問題"},{"start":10028.568,"end":10042.475,"text":"那另外其實我們也了解行政院的0到6歲國家一起養的政策當中將試辦這個彈性育嬰留職停薪要納入我們的監禁措施所以本席也認為勞動部也應該要敬恕跟國人"},{"start":10045.596,"end":10073.635,"text":"把事辦的情形能夠做一個公佈的同時也能夠確定他將來要實施的期程讓民眾可以有更多的了解跟掌握這是10月11號已經有相關的這個座談會我們也看到相關的紀錄裡面告訴我們說其實很多的事辦參與者的公司最多的意見其實不是在於人力調派的問題而是在於"},{"start":10074.395,"end":10091.341,"text":"希望勞動部能夠簡化彈性育嬰留停申請的行政程序當然事辦的參與事辦者不是那麼多所以有一些意見還無法充分的來表示這個問題是重點或是重心之所在不過他們"},{"start":10092.341,"end":10118.73,"text":"很願意表達的就是有關於這個勞動部能夠簡化程序這一部分所以也期待勞動部能夠把這個意見聽進去未來再做這個簡化彈性育嬰留停程序的行政程序能夠讓民眾在需要的時候可以更有方便而且更能夠順利的來參與申請那其實我們看到的資料真的是在這個89家的參與公司當中只有21家"},{"start":10121.611,"end":10145.773,"text":"在166人申請 這個的確數字現在會是偏低 所以要能夠涵掛到未來我們期待這個彈性育嬰假的事辦的這些要推估的這種可能性還是相當相當的困難 所以請勞動部能夠盡速的執行這個彈性育嬰假的這個政策 讓我們的所有的民眾可以有效的來"},{"start":10146.494,"end":10150.94,"text":"國立中正大學社會福利學系副教授王淑芸副教授"},{"start":10185.467,"end":10213.435,"text":"主席各位夥伴大家好我們可以看到其實兩年前臺灣的運價經歷了一個重大的改變那那個時候不包括了民間團體立法部門以及行政部門的大力促成所以臺灣的確在運價有一個很重要的改革那那個改革之後其實我們可以看到臺灣運價的男女使用比例雖然仍然仍然有顯著的差異但是的確爸爸使用的比例在漸漸的上升但是在那波改革裡面有比較遺憾的就是我們今天要討論的"},{"start":10214.515,"end":10227.11,"text":"兩個重點一個就是適用的對象以及我們是不是可以彈性使用那我們也可以很清楚的看到其實賴清德總統的政見非常清楚的表示我們要促成雙就業跟雙照顧的友善職場鼓勵婦女踴躍投入職場那所有的立法跟行政部以及民間團體也都非常支持"},{"start":10233.462,"end":10233.782,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":10261.336,"end":10277.1,"text":"隨時對於有照顧需求的勞工可以請他們離開職場並不會影響企業的收益跟短期的發展可是我們可以看到時序來到了我們可以看到時序來到了2005年出生的人大概就是現在19、20歲正要進入職場的這批人我們只剩下20萬人就算這20萬人的女性有六成就業都補不了當年的勞動力缺口"},{"start":10285.502,"end":10309.015,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們現在是一個大缺工的時代那來到了呃時序來到了20002020年的時候其實我們已經很清楚不論之後的生育率跟出口人出口數是怎麼樣未來這20年我們的勞動力人口就是這樣了所以為什麼要把女性留在勞動職場上是世界各國都在"},{"start":10309.835,"end":10315.179,"text":"爭取或積極要促進的一件事這也是為什麼雙就業跟雙照顧一定要在這個時代推行以及企業為什麼要加入因為推行這件事情對企業是重要的那我在這一兩年也都訪談了非常多的企業談到他們關於這些措施那有幾個我這裡列出了三個企業的人資跟僱主"},{"start":10333.092,"end":10353.332,"text":"他們提到了兩個重要的改變第一個就是A公司的高階男性主管他認為整個社會氣氛改變了他說時代其實真的不一樣了我們年輕的那個時候其實不會有爸爸敢說我要請假可是現在職場上非常多的年輕爸爸他關心的不是只有薪資他更重視生活品質家庭生活跟彈性"},{"start":10354.093,"end":10377.077,"text":"他們覺得請假是他們的權利但另外一方面也有B公司跟C公司的說其實這件事情的實施有利於他們自己的人力競爭B公司就說其實他們意識到現在就是一個大缺工的時代公司一定要提供差異化的服務我們才能提升企業的傾向友善家庭措施對年輕世代非常有吸引力它有助於我們維持在產業鏈當中吸收到很優秀的勞動力"},{"start":10381.318,"end":10406.3,"text":"C公司說其實員工很清楚地感受到我們重視他的需求所以公司的向心力其實是明顯地增加就不會像其他公司一樣我要一直在處理招募跟培訓的成本當員工對我們有認同感的時候其實我的工作效率是明顯地增加的所以其實企業某種程度也意識到雙工作跟雙照顧是重要的而且對企業是有利的"},{"start":10406.86,"end":10427.632,"text":"好那其實在台灣我相信在座的大家都知道就是我們從小就被期待或要求我們要出人頭地我們要競爭我們要優秀所以我們在職場上的時候都會投入非常多的時間我們要升遷我們要加班我們想要進修可是與此同時我們又不想讓小孩子輸在起跑點上所以小孩子要跑非常多的才藝班安親班有非常多的軍備競賽"},{"start":10429.013,"end":10454.952,"text":"在與此同時我們作為一個工作者我同時要在職場上表現得很好所以我很可能下班的時候常常要接主管的電話或LINE可是在同時我的小孩可能一直在跑各式各樣的安親班對非常多年輕世代來說我就是在這個雙重的擠壓底下設法自己過生活所以我們可以很清楚的看到其實台灣育嬰世代面臨一個非常嚴重的照顧時間貧窮"},{"start":10457.93,"end":10470.102,"text":"我們來看其實台灣育兒世代的父母親有4成週末都在加班不論晚上我們有4成的父母親週末在加班我們的工時擺在國際上來說育兒家長的工時是比較長的那我們的休假包括我們的特休假以及我們的國定假日堆疊起來相較於其他國家來說也是比較少的"},{"start":10481.674,"end":10511.14,"text":"所以非常多的報告其實都顯示育兒家長第一名主要遭遇的困難就是他沒有時間可以照顧小孩那這個時間貧窮對男性跟女性來說都是困難的可是成為母親更是一個不平等的挑戰怎麼說我們可以看到其實男女可能在育兒之前都進入職場可是一旦有小孩之後女性可能比較容易受到明顯的懷孕歧視或是剛剛其實非常多的前輩都有提到"},{"start":10511.52,"end":10514.762,"text":"長病毒早療或是長照疫情等等狀況如果這些狀況都是女性在承擔的時候雖然她有就業她可能會對同事很內疚她可能需要常常請假她可能最後就選擇用兼職或離職而男性如果在照顧責任上沒有共同分擔其實就會產生一個性別差異這也是為什麼這個時代"},{"start":10534.691,"end":10538.273,"text":"除了要推雙就業之外雙照顧是一個重要的目標OECD的報告其實已經很清楚的看見生育導致的職業中斷其實是母職懲罰的主因之一而且不分職業技能就是高職業或低職業其實他都會因為離開職場受到薪資的貶值而這是女性在企業內部薪資偏低的一個主要原因"},{"start":10559.003,"end":10580.889,"text":"好 那所以我們總結來看男性跟女性在工作跟家庭裡面這個雙照顧的確是台灣面臨的性別革命而我們今天要談的育嬰假包括談性跟制度改革就在第一個我們的工作職場裡面如果我們還是覺得企業要有一個理想工作者文化規訓也就是我一進到公司就不要談照顧需求的時候"},{"start":10582.89,"end":10587.532,"text":"當企業覺得照顧責任不是他應該承擔或仍然有一個優惠的懷孕跟照顧歧視的時候他會導致的就是男性很難回到家承擔照顧工作而女性就要下班之後承擔很多的第二輪班最後他就會導致女人雖然進入職場可是我有升遷的天花板我有性別薪資差距會導致我的母職懲罰"},{"start":10608.462,"end":10608.642,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":10629.324,"end":10654.274,"text":"團體跟前輩們都已經提到所以我就先跳過我們先來看對於世界各國來說其實有非常多彈性安排的方式第一個就是搭配兼職工作與育嬰假第二個就是化整為零也就是我們今天談到的育嬰假不一定要快撞請假而是可以小時小時請或以天以天請有這麼多的國家都是透過化整為零的方式來支持家長的照顧跟就業需求"},{"start":10655.314,"end":10666.383,"text":"那也有這麼多的國家是保留部分的假期只到6歲8歲或12歲用完為止後面這兩個化整為零跟保留部分假期就是我們今天在談的這兩個議題"},{"start":10668.359,"end":10690.863,"text":"好快最後了就是其實我在訪談的企業裡面他們都談到怎麼樣可以推動這種化整為零第一個就是制度的靈活性很關鍵分段使用減少工時搭配彈性上下班或居家工作因為疫情的關係臺灣已經可以慢慢可以接受第二個企業主會提到的是我們要簡化申請的流程"},{"start":10691.923,"end":10709.934,"text":"減少監控的壓力交接工作明確就會讓管理變得比較容易第三個就是搭配業務的高峰跟低谷的確剛剛有企業主會提到我們如果有高峰時期如果非常多人請假怎麼辦所以這其實是牢固可以協商然後善用內部的調度跟"},{"start":10712.015,"end":10731.213,"text":"第4個就是分階段跟小規模的事情有非常多的企業會提到他們先從3歲以下開始試試了之後覺得效果很好再慢慢的往6歲或8歲就是往上小規模的事情第4個跟第5個也非常重要就是內部的溝通很重要尤其是支持性的"},{"start":10731.753,"end":10758.831,"text":"文化尤其是要雇主其實要非常清楚的傳達這個假期就是要讓你用的建立一個支持性的氛圍有特別是男性主管帶頭示範的效果非常好他會減輕員工使用的心理負擔減少他的顧慮他會知道說其實男性員工請了之後回來是好好的不會受到任何不公平的對待最後一個就是跟外部的資源合作那這個也的確是非常多的"},{"start":10759.171,"end":10776.464,"text":"政府部門或是其實可以通力來合作就是跟職業訓練的機構合作引入短期的人力資源來解決業務的需求好最後就是回到賴總統他的政見為什麼我們需要雙照顧就是美國女性主業經濟學家其實有個很重要的論點優質照顧其實是經濟運作體系不可或缺的公共財"},{"start":10782.768,"end":10809.642,"text":"但是常常在大多數的經濟發展政策裡面被忽略了我們總覺得這好像是一個理所當然的存在可是他以照顧小孩為例家長非常辛苦的養育出快樂健康成功的孩子他提供的這個公共財受益的不是只有小孩還有僱主可以有很好的勞動力老年人因為這個好的勞動力有了稅收全體的公民也都因此受益"},{"start":10811.003,"end":10826.693,"text":"這些好處都是自外於那些照顧的爸爸跟媽媽那如果說我們的社會普遍漠視這些爸爸媽媽的貢獻不願意付出成本來支持他們所有的照顧都由這些個別的好心人尤其是媽媽來承擔"},{"start":10828.294,"end":10828.554,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":10848.166,"end":10848.446,"text":"謝謝主席這個"},{"start":10877.591,"end":10898.412,"text":"今天是在育嬰留職停薪的制度中增加有薪彈性親職假的可行性的公聽會本期的基點意見供各界先進做參考第一這個少子化確實個大問題內政部護證室的資料顯示這個新生兒出生人數去年死產款5500人創下歷史性低近年來基本上是斷崖式的下降"},{"start":10899.653,"end":10921.023,"text":"少子女化帶來的衝擊性是非常多面向的從勞動力的減少、經濟活力的減弱、未來高的撫養比其實再次影響國家的長期發展跟競爭力當然是所謂的國安危機第二個談到政府因應少子女化的策略為了改善這樣的問題行政院一直在推動0到6歲國家一起養"},{"start":10921.983,"end":10949.745,"text":"但是現行的這個生育政策大概有超過七成的民眾是不買單或者是無感的這是一個很嚴重的一個狀況職場環境的面對是否足夠的友善社會氛圍有沒有改善這個其實都很大的討論空間也有檢討的必要如果行政院現在要繼續0到6歲一起養的這樣子的一個政策指導跟綱領的話我們在討論今天的這個相關的一些制度的時候其實政府的態度是什麼版本是什麼其實是非常重要的"},{"start":10950.225,"end":10950.806,"text":"第三回到今天的主題"},{"start":10974.928,"end":10997.178,"text":"剛剛我們的王淑芸教授我也引用一下她曾經講的說育嬰假雖然是勞工的權益但在現實中提出申請的人會自我評估是否回得到本來的工作崗位這也導致台灣目前的申請育嬰假的比例其實並沒有想像中的高在早先之前前面幾位專家學者也有特別談到中小企業的問題這表示我們現行的制度從過去它只是微調微調再微調並沒有解決根本的問題嘛"},{"start":10998.318,"end":11022.475,"text":"這個大企業也許可以配合政府的政策可以確實的帶來一些改善可是這剛剛也有專家有講這臺灣大部分是所謂的中小企業佔百分之九十九十九十八到百分之九十九也有教授講說制度是相牽於社會這本是非常同意但我們有沒有針對中小企業這樣子的一個模式這樣一個社會的氛圍去做制度的設計跟改善我想這也是勞動部值得去思考的一個議題的方向但實務上"},{"start":11023.976,"end":11050.282,"text":"實務上就是因為缺乏彈性所以你現在這個育嬰假這個兩年但以半年為一單位來處理也許大企業是可以適用但中小企業大多不適用也實質造成了這個政策實行下去的實質影響恐怕是有限的那這是一個大的問題希望這個法案到時候討論的時候可以針對這樣的問題來對症下藥所以第四點針對這個有薪彈性的親職假的引入基本上其實是"},{"start":11050.982,"end":11076.815,"text":"我覺得是解決台灣的社會問題啦因為你現在用這種快狀式的很多中華企業沒有辦法使用那我如果換一個思維用相對有彈性的方式縮短時間增大彈性的方式能不能比較有效的執行這樣的一個政策我想是值得來做嘗試的但我也要講我們政府過去在做所謂彈性工時的事辦的時候這我講嘛你如果所有的東西都只是微調微調是看不出效果微調也不會讓人民有感一個小時或兩個小時那代表什麼呢"},{"start":11077.395,"end":11102.82,"text":"你如果沒有大刀闊斧的改革決心你有辦法解決每一年減少幾萬人的這樣子的一個少子女化的問題嗎這我們在期待其實是一個政府的大破大立的這樣子的一個態度有薪彈性親職假引入才能夠更有靈活的安排工作跟家庭生活或者是剛剛所講的臨時停課疾病照顧學校教育活動才能夠讓家庭有更多的時間陪伴孩子的成長所以這樣育嬰假或者是未來比如說放寬時間變所謂育兒假"},{"start":11104.98,"end":11122.234,"text":"讓單位縮減並且彈性化我想是值得大家來共同支持的那最後要花一點點時間去談制度的一些改革的一個層面就是說剛剛我在聽前面各個先進在談的時候其實也有談到一個很重要的問題也是我們我覺得是接下來修法最大的挑戰其實是所謂的制度整合"},{"start":11123.035,"end":11148.825,"text":"因為如果我要兼顧彈性的話那為什麼不是從另外一個邏輯就是我加大所謂的家庭照顧家的適用範圍跟適用時間或那我想問題可能是出在什麼因為你有薪跟無薪這兩套你怎麼整合在同一個制度下面它就是一個大的問題嘛也就是因為這樣的關係所以大家今天要回到所謂的育嬰留停這樣子的一個框架下來做討論但是不管怎麼說如果少子女化是一個國家面對的重大國安危機難道不應該並行討論嗎"},{"start":11150.606,"end":11155.359,"text":"但是如果我們的中央政府沒有一個明確的態度沒有一個明確的改革方向"},{"start":11156.38,"end":11185.329,"text":"那請問大家怎麼樣綜合做討論如果大家只是立法因為立法委員大家都有提案權利然後大家每一塊其實都重視我也希望放寬家庭照顧假我也希望育嬰留停的彈性可以增加那到最後的結果就是版本零零碎碎然後我們可能要花大量的討論時間但到了最後還是只能變成微調的邏輯那真的能夠解決問題嗎我今天就當烏鴉今天不管今天是執政或在野都會有這樣子的一個狀況但我們如果真的要改變這件事情我覺得政府的責任更大一些"},{"start":11186.809,"end":11214.585,"text":"徹頭徹尾的調整檢討我們的放假制度改善職場的文化讓企業擔負更多的責任或者是做政府提供怎麼樣的協助這樣子的時候才有辦法徹底的貫徹所謂的0到6歲或者是未來什麼0到12歲要一起養的這樣子的一個政策邏輯啊這件事情我們還在等待但我必須要很嚴肅的提醒如果我們等不到這樣子的一個態度那到最後0歲的修法只能解決局部的問題但終究沒有辦法解決少子女化的危機以上謝謝"},{"start":11220.048,"end":11222.91,"text":"臺灣生育改革行動聯盟徐書慧徐書慧"},{"start":11244.389,"end":11262.876,"text":"相關的所有政策跟制度那關於生育改革這一件事情以及今天這個公聽會的討論主題呢也是生育改革行動聯盟長期以來一直關注的一個議題喔我們在2023年推出了一個我們對於台灣生育政策的一個白皮書建言的白皮書喔"},{"start":11263.741,"end":11274.144,"text":"當中其實有一張就提到關於這個產後照顧以及育兒這個家長他們其實真正需要台灣的政府提供什麼樣的支持"},{"start":11275.419,"end":11297.95,"text":"剛才迅雲老師有提到了一個公共財的概念,其實我們認為呢,台灣的每個孩子,無論他是0歲還是12歲,他都應該是我們政府、我們國家共有的資源。我們在生育制度上的建制以及改革,其實是為了我們國家未來的發展,無論是經濟面向還是各個面向。"},{"start":11298.69,"end":11318.631,"text":"所以我們要用怎麼樣的角度跟眼光去思考跟看待現在正準備生育或正在育兒當中的這些家長我們認為他們是支持台灣發展我們國家發展的一個重要成員那要如何支持他們可以安心育兒可以放心生養這就是我們社會的共同責任"},{"start":11319.84,"end":11348.171,"text":"當然責無旁貸的我們的政府、我們的國家以及社會上面的各個制度的制定者他是需要共同合作的那當然今天的公聽會討論了這個彈性親職假的這個主題其實也是我們推動以及一直去倡議多年的一個方向我們認為現行如果把生育的責任放在家庭以及個人那生育這件事情對於家長來說就形同是懲罰"},{"start":11349.38,"end":11366.693,"text":"怎麼說 剛才也有各種資料顯示喔現行的制度 家長如果要育兒 因為家庭照顧主要我沒有談家 自己的長輩 只有孩子需要家庭照顧要用自己的假 要扣薪或無薪"},{"start":11368.075,"end":11396.725,"text":"如果是一個基層勞工平均薪資以臺北昨天的資料說是五萬九千其實現在根本沒有大概就四萬左右其實是對於家庭的支應是非常辛苦的那我自己是兩個孩子的媽媽今天這個公聽會對我們秘書長來說是非常的有共識性因為昨天宜蘭地區下大雨因為颱風外流環流的影響大家應該知道已經淹水了那我們生育改革的辦公室在宜蘭"},{"start":11397.845,"end":11425.669,"text":"我們的秘書長就為了要去接小孩他必須提早一個小時趕到孩子學校的附近然後把孩子接回家才能安全的在家度過這個災情不然他們就會困在蘇澳的水裡那這個造成的不僅僅只是生命安全他同時是經濟上面的一個極大損失而這只是其中一個例子我身邊正好發生的例子那更不用講剛才有提到了腸病毒"},{"start":11426.314,"end":11449.797,"text":"那還有一個是孩子比較小的要去托育保母如果請假的時候父母必須請假那父母請假保母請假是他的權益保母的費用不會減少但父母請假薪水會減少喔那這對於育兒家長來說他就是一種懲罰那對於現在的新興世代年輕人他們如果去看到身邊的同事"},{"start":11450.987,"end":11480.211,"text":"或自己的家長是這樣的一個處境的時候你覺得他們對生育這件事情會有興趣嗎當然就是沒有興趣那第二個是親職照顧這件事情我們以孩子來說國家的法規有規定6歲以下孩子不能獨自在家可是當他因為腸病毒停課因為各種原因他或是半天課他必須待在家裡的時候那家長怎麼辦他只能請假或把他送安親班好那"},{"start":11481.327,"end":11495.943,"text":"這樣的狀況到了6歲之後就解決了嗎他8歲有能力自己移動嗎他有照顧自己的能力嗎其實身為家長有經驗啦大概小孩到10歲12歲青少年才有辦法獨立處理自己的事情嘛"},{"start":11496.946,"end":11519.217,"text":"所以我們認為親職或家庭照顧這件事情不管是照顧孩子還是照顧家長他應該都應該有一個彈性使用的必須性彈性使用必須性他因應的不僅是天災啊接種疫苗啊生病照顧啊或家庭的各種突發事件彈性化的使用才是真正可以支持到家庭照顧的"},{"start":11519.377,"end":11519.517,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11548.649,"end":11548.75,"text":"已經有問題帶"},{"start":11550.387,"end":11578.446,"text":"那這個當然就是呈現在最前面的原因他們其實原本有很好的工作關係於是他再多一步去問什麼原因可以知道是關於要申請那個育嬰留停然後替代人力的那個申請程序太繁雜了一個中小企業10人以下的公司他們不想要再去負擔這樣的人力成本跟時間成本於是他們選擇把這個可能會再生第二個的30歲左右的年輕女性剔除"},{"start":11579.246,"end":11589.618,"text":"以選擇一個可能沒有打算要生育的年輕人所以這就是我們台灣的職場現實文化現實的狀況那更不用說在這個情形下的男女不平等"},{"start":11590.202,"end":11615.314,"text":"那今天對於這樣子一個親職照顧假或者是家庭照顧假的一個彈性化它有其必要性那我們也非常感謝就是環衛委員各位的這樣的提案希望這樣的修法能夠真正的促進不管是0到6歲還是0到12歲真正可以造成台灣的孩子們可以整個國家視為公共財一起養一起支持我們的生育家庭謝謝大家"},{"start":11616.786,"end":11620.995,"text":"好 謝謝徐書惠理事長的發言接下來請陳培鈺委員發言"},{"start":11626.24,"end":11646.629,"text":"好 謝謝主席那也非常感謝今天各位先進提供了非常多寶貴的意見那我想要提出來的是我想要直接切入其實我自己就是兩個孩子的媽媽而且是相對有一些特殊狀況難以照顧的兩個男孩但是我要說我真的非常非常的幸運我在前面10年的工作狀況是可以調整的"},{"start":11647.509,"end":11672.229,"text":"所以我可以花很多的時間在協助我們家裡的小孩但是我知道其實就在我照顧我的小孩然後彈性的接工作期間其實我知道非常多家長是來自於所謂三明治家庭雙薪家庭身心障礙者的家庭甚至是特教生的家庭有非常多照顧的困境跟需求可能更不是我們一般家庭所可以想像的那這些人呢在陪同子女跟工作賺錢之間過往因為這些狀況往往必須做出選擇"},{"start":11676.593,"end":11696.288,"text":"而這個選擇常常也會阻礙了個人的職涯發展跟生涯發展所以我想要說其實這種兩難就我過去在當一個全職家長兼職接工作的人的身上我認為其實我每一天都在面對這個困境也就是說例如說在勞動部今天的相關業務報告裡面他提到有所謂的彈性事辦的這個企業他們"},{"start":11699.83,"end":11700.731,"text":"社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會議"},{"start":11727.848,"end":11745.363,"text":"複雜跟困難的狀況讓我們必須要更積極去面對這個彈性工時的問題那我想要提另外一個困境在性別平等工作法裡面呢要不要新增所謂的有薪彈性親職假我當然是樂意從我剛剛所的論述我當然是樂意有這樣的相關政策"},{"start":11746.043,"end":11746.203,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":11766.289,"end":11795.06,"text":"一旦相關法規範修下去之後一定會出現非常多現場的困境我舉一些例子例如說在不同的企業規模不同的工作專業領域在適用上是否有所不同在勞動部的相關業務報告裡面台灣中小企業5人以下佔90%而這些職場的樣態有沒有機會在勞動部的法規範規範當中也可以考慮到他們的需求考慮到老闆的需求也考慮到員工的需求我覺得這件事情非常的重要"},{"start":11795.72,"end":11809.291,"text":"還有對於搭配育嬰留職停薪津貼半年八成薪資的政策底下津貼是否要維持如果要維持那所謂的一個小時半天或數天的薪資要如何計算都有釐清的必要在相關法規範的討論我認為這些細節是重要的"},{"start":11812.233,"end":11815.277,"text":"甚至如果當事人在時間範圍內有轉職的情形那親職假的時間計算要如何勾結我認為這也是後續要討論的重點也就是說這麼多複雜的現場的配套如果沒有積極的進行討論會引發後續更多的災難"},{"start":11827.993,"end":11842.139,"text":"但是我也要提有非常多委員跟先進提出來這麼多困難的配套但有一件事情我覺得可能是大家可以共同來思考另外一個事情我們現在所有職場的工作樣態是因著前一個世代的整個資本主義的發展"},{"start":11843.96,"end":11858.413,"text":"讓我們所有現在公司的工作型態是長成這個樣子但是面臨的少子化已經不是台灣的議題是全球的議題我們可以參考非常多歐洲國家的經驗他們鼓勵非常多中小企業把職務的內容工作的內容做重新設計跟調整"},{"start":11859.654,"end":11871.624,"text":"不是所謂的心理假生理假就可以解決而是當我的職務內容做了分割做了調整我可能就不用太擔心現場人力配置的問題因為我職務內容的調整每一個人他就有機會擁有彈性的工時這件事情我舉台灣的一個企業我不要講他是誰他告訴我他們為了禁用大量的特教生他們去設計他們倉庫物流從機械到動線然後到"},{"start":11884.275,"end":11884.635,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":11902.159,"end":11927.235,"text":"所以這個企業雖然已經是60年的老招牌企業但是他完全沒有缺工的問題甚至有更多年輕人願意加入這個公司我想要講的是勞動部也請你們積極的面對植物內容重新設計這件事情其實你們有更多的機制可以相關可以跟相關的企業討論但是如果你們只談相關的時間配套不談植物內容重新設計的想像的可能性我認為這件事情再討論3年5年10年都不會有進展這是第一個部分"},{"start":11931.718,"end":11959.255,"text":"接下來我想要談的是教育部家庭教育的部分因為今天有邀請到教育部我從進立法院的第一天就一直在問請問中生教育司家庭教育中心你們到底有沒有責有沒有真的認真想過家庭教育中心這幾年對於臺灣新世代的家長到底提供了什麼樣具體而且有效而且有意義的服務讓更多的家長願意讓更多年輕人願意走入家庭結婚生小孩但如果家庭教育中心跟中生"},{"start":11959.275,"end":11959.295,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":11975.945,"end":11976.065,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":11997.811,"end":11998.331,"text":"好 謝謝陳培鈺委員接下來請張雅琳委員發言"},{"start":12028.566,"end":12042.02,"text":"謝謝主席那今天非常高興我們可以來討論這個題目喔那我想我就用我自己的生命經驗來跟大家分享我想我就用我自己的生命經驗來跟大家分享我有三個小孩"},{"start":12043.257,"end":12070.093,"text":"然後我們在學校裡從幼兒園開始他入學開始到上小學結束只要遇到腸病毒我可能就必須要輪流請假所以我們現在雖然有一個叫做無薪的家庭照顧假但是這個家庭照顧假其實是合併你家庭所有的成員發生的事情所以我一年的7天假我根本不夠用但是這時候會怎麼選擇當我跟我先生在討論要請假這件事情會由誰來請假"},{"start":12071.474,"end":12084.999,"text":"我們會從經濟的角度來看誰來請假那我跟我先生的薪資相比我薪水少所以就會由我來請假所以這就是為什麼我們大部分的工作還是會落在女性因為大部分的女性的薪資就是比"},{"start":12086.024,"end":12103.339,"text":"男性來得少這是一般來說我們呈現的一個結果那我今天也想要先定調一件事情我們今天在討論友善家庭或是要彈性有性親職假的時候並不是只是想要女生把小孩生出來而是說我們如何去支持我們的家"},{"start":12103.999,"end":12105.961,"text":"這才是我們最重要要討論的一件事情"},{"start":12120.208,"end":12145.614,"text":"那再來就是說因為剛有講嘛齁我們的這個因為現在我們又剛好落在這個40幾歲的年紀長輩們也開始生病了那我們就要開始要去照顧我們的長輩所以醫院職場家庭三頭燒欸是三頭燒所以我會認為說我們是有必要的從新的來檢討我們現在的不管是彈性暈假因為我知道年底也要做一個檢討了齁"},{"start":12146.994,"end":12147.034,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":12164.938,"end":12165.158,"text":"公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議"},{"start":12187.208,"end":12208.975,"text":"請在什麼用途呢 帶小孩出去玩因為週末人潮非常非常擁擠爸媽也都非常累了 要他出去玩這其實是在去年特國盟也做了一個兒童的調查之後兒童就說他為什麼沒有辦法出去玩因為週末爸爸媽媽都好累喔 他們不想出門所以我們有看到日本跟新加坡有家長用這個假呢 帶小孩出去玩"},{"start":12210.034,"end":12223.632,"text":"那所以我想這個其實也是一個非常好的親子建立關係的一個機會所以我個人是非常希望我們可以有更多的支持在有心的部分不然最後犧牲的永遠會是那個弱勢的女性"},{"start":12225.314,"end":12252.062,"text":"再來就是說其實我自己去年我不曉得我們勞動部知不知道其實親子天下一直在做這個有善家庭職場的調查那他們去年有一個論壇那論壇裡面呢其實都是裡面就有講到各種大型企業啦中小型企業甚至小型企業我如何的去做到有善家庭那企業裡面他們有一個反應我覺得這個也可以勞動部來去做思考或是經濟部一起來思考"},{"start":12252.842,"end":12281.039,"text":"到底這些中小企業有沒有方法知道他可以怎麼樣做到友善家庭還是他用他過去的想像覺得我要怎麼樣怎麼樣去做才能我要怎麼樣去做他用他過去的想像可是他沒有辦法去對應到說現在新時代有新的工具數位的工作數位的工具遠端的工作等等的是不是可以來幫助大家得到這些資訊可能開一些座談會啦交流會讓大家有這些想像"},{"start":12282.08,"end":12306.523,"text":"或是實踐的方法可以互相交流因為這是企業反映的他也有想做可是他真的不知道怎麼做那我們一個政策一直下去可是沒有告訴他方法他永遠就是做不到那永遠到最後我們的女性我們的家長就是得不到支持所以我認為這個其實是我們必須要重新的來去幫我們的中小企業去建立一些交流的管道讓彼此知道一些方法"},{"start":12308.052,"end":12327.226,"text":"那我想最後分享一個經驗就是說因為我其實在出社會的前10年我在大型企業外商工作那我其實當然外商相對來說我們的福利是好的那但是在我生了第二要生第二胎小孩的時候我就重新要思考我到底要不要回職場"},{"start":12328.854,"end":12345.817,"text":"因為當我在去思考我要怎麼去接受我要怎麼去打預防針光這些很瑣碎的事情的時候我就開始去思考這會不會影響到我職場的升遷因為當我三幾歲我已經要往下一個level去升了我能不能升遷我能不能負荷所以在當下我後來就決定了"},{"start":12346.718,"end":12364.566,"text":"我跟一群家長我們成立了就是環我特色公園行動聯盟一個NGO的組織那這個NGO的組織我想跟大家分享一下我們在過去的那9年的時間我們改建了全台灣400座特色公園我們跟十幾個縣市政府都有合作那怎麼做到我們沒有一個辦公室欸"},{"start":12365.606,"end":12379.242,"text":"我們全部都是遠端線上用數位工具來工作而是我們同時讓家長們在4點到6點我們不開會早上8點開始開會我們去調整我們所有的工作時間來配合家長們的作息"},{"start":12380.387,"end":12381.708,"text":"好 謝謝張雅玲委員的發言接下來請郭鈺晴委員發言"},{"start":12418.902,"end":12443.851,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我想今天非常開心能夠看到這樣子的一個公聽會我想這個少子化的一個議題其實已經似乎已經變成一個臺灣不可逆的一個趨勢了那但是我們如何可以讓我們的社會在職場上面可以更友善就是讓這個願意生育的這樣子的一個夫妻們他們能夠有更多的一些支持背後支持其實也很重要"},{"start":12444.511,"end":12472.547,"text":"那其實今年4月其實我就已經有提案了包含在這個就業的保險法那提供這個國人的育兒的一些支持那我們也鼓勵是雙親共同育兒而不是真的育兒的責任落在某一方面身上那當然也希望能夠這個新增一個親職的親職假的一個津貼提高育兒留職停薪子女適用的年齡還有實質的這個薪資的一個替代率有一些細節"},{"start":12473.687,"end":12493.807,"text":"在這邊跟大家報告一下原本我們的育嬰留職停薪的一個津貼本來講的是0到3歲但我們希望是能夠改成所謂的育兒留職停薪津貼把適用的子女的年紀是不是能夠拉到所謂的6歲提高這個實質的薪資替代率從60%提升到80%"},{"start":12496.79,"end":12497.951,"text":"同時在性別工作的平等法的修正"},{"start":12524.068,"end":12535.175,"text":"我們也希望能夠新增這個親職假親職假的一個津貼那麼採彈性的一個時數來做計算比較容易讓更多的這個就是有類似狀況的雙親能夠得以照顧"},{"start":12537.458,"end":12560.452,"text":"那同時呢在現在我剛剛有提到這個少子化的一個部分我們希望也能夠積極的保障這個受僱者以及收養子女他們的勤領就是這個育兒留職停薪的一個津貼跟親職假津貼的一個權益那在第二個部分其實關於我們的這個性別工作的這個平等法其實我們收到很多這個婦女的團體他們相關的一些意見"},{"start":12562.233,"end":12579.337,"text":"那剛剛有特別提到其實我們可能再過三個月齁其實這個臺灣恐怕就有一半的人口以上都會是所謂的45歲以上了齁那這也是我們必須要面臨的那現在其實呢在夾在中間的像我們這一類的叫三明治族啦就是上有老下還有小喔"},{"start":12579.697,"end":12579.717,"text":"公聽會議"},{"start":12597.428,"end":12617.284,"text":"余嬰留職停薪能夠新增一個所謂的長期照顧安排留職停薪也就是說我們要照顧上面的長輩那這個部分其實我也特別有提到我個人的一些就是希望在我們的性別工作平等法裡面有提到這個部分那說穿了其實因為超高齡的一個趨勢如果能夠比照這個趨勢能夠讓"},{"start":12619.17,"end":12629.588,"text":"所謂的在職照顧者能夠也就是說老人家他也應該要有所謂的育嬰假這個是我提到的一個修法的一個部分"},{"start":12630.134,"end":12655.959,"text":"那我想呢我們也希望這個少子化的一個社會趨勢喔這個比較公務人員每年是不是也能夠有所謂的7天的這個有薪家庭照顧假並放寬所謂的請假的室友因為其實我們知道像我們我剛剛講的像我們這種三民制組其實我們在工作的職場包含我們的EQ也好包含我們的專業也好可能都是相對來講是稍微是更穩定的喔但是有時候呢必須"},{"start":12656.738,"end":12679.81,"text":"要家庭跟工作兩頭跑然後除了照顧小的可能長輩他們也面臨就是在生病或者是他們在高齡的時候他們也需要照護的時候其實夾在中間的三民自主其實就非常非常的辛苦了所以當然我們也是鼓勵就是雙親就是夫妻共同來做這樣子的一個育兒或者是照顧親子的長輩的一個責任"},{"start":12682.256,"end":12712.025,"text":"所以我們也希望是不是採用日或者是時為單位就是比較彈性的來做這樣子的一個計算可能會是往比較好的一個方向那以我為例之前因為在電視台在工作有時候我們可能正在現場正在直播正在Live的時候我突然會接到學校的電話學校跟我講說我小孩發燒了然後小孩身上起紅疹這個時候叫爸爸也不對因為爸爸出國去出差了"},{"start":12712.406,"end":12741.424,"text":"所以你就變成是你在工作的當下你是沒辦法馬上抽身然後我還記得那陣子是剛好我小孩發燒住院然後媽媽住院開刀所以變成我一個人偽單親的狀況所以這個部分其實是非常非常辛苦的啦所以在這個所謂的這個希望我們當然要解決少子化的一些問題但是我們在職場是不是能夠更友善的面對就是他們要照顧家人在這個部分"},{"start":12741.834,"end":12743.056,"text":"謝謝郭鈺晴委員接下來請洪森翰委員發言"},{"start":12774.107,"end":12792.287,"text":"好那個首先先謝謝周偉今天來排這樣的一個公聽會其實我想關於這個有薪的彈性親職假的議題從上一屆進到立法院以後其實真的在衛行委員會討論過非常非常多次了"},{"start":12795.089,"end":12820.756,"text":"談到這個議題其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽其實真的都跟我們反應現在育嬰留停的制度真的是太難用了一句話講就是太難用了只能夠用月為單位來申請那真的剛才就像前面幾位說的小孩突然發燒了要照顧的時候你沒有辦法一下子為了小孩發燒我就請一個月的育嬰留停"},{"start":12821.736,"end":12840.828,"text":"所以年輕爸媽都只能犧牲自己的市價那當然要面對的事情就是扣薪所以這個原本的薪水就一定不一定是高了我們其實有很多的這個年輕的這個工作的主權本來薪水就不一定是高了"},{"start":12842.008,"end":12867.37,"text":"可是當你生了小孩遇到類似像這樣的事件的時候你又要再請試駕你這幾乎是多重的懲罰好像生小孩變成像是一個懲罰一樣那其實我們其實是有一些相對簡單的方式其實就可以給大家一點彈性的調整我們就可以克服這個問題的但我必須說過去勞動部在這方面的回應真的是太被動了"},{"start":12870.595,"end":12887.405,"text":"我知道之前我們有一個事辦的計劃可是這事辦計劃的範圍我想之前在未來會大家也給了很多的意見哦那更不用講哦其實接下來我們遇到這個少子化的問題只會更加的嚴重"},{"start":12888.806,"end":12906.542,"text":"我我我一直認為我們一直認為說今天少子化的問題真的不是只是衛福部的問題不是少子化辦公室的問題是所有的部會都應該一起來面對的問題今天如果這些相關的問題不克服年輕人真的就是不想生小孩接下來的勞動的問題我也很想問衛福部勞動力的問題會比較小嗎"},{"start":12911.215,"end":12927.108,"text":"所以我覺得過去我們的被動其實常常都是看短不看長那在這種這種相對比較保守的狀況之下不太願意去做真的比較大幅度的制度上面的檢討"},{"start":12928.769,"end":12929.229,"text":"公聽委員：完整會議"},{"start":12958.989,"end":12975.557,"text":"更不用提我一直以來我們都希望這裡面也不是只是勞工部的問題包括我們的經濟部那個財經部門尤其今天經濟部應該也在場我覺得經濟部門也有責任要來跟我們的企業跟我們的產業來去做這方面的溝通"},{"start":12977.014,"end":13004.152,"text":"因為這已經是各個部會都必須面對到的問題了我們其實已經觸眼可見如果這方面的制度不做變動的話其實台灣整體的不管是勞動力的供給或者是人口上面的問題少子化的問題會帶來多大的負面的影響其實我們都清楚也很多不斷的很多的這個"},{"start":13007.414,"end":13029.364,"text":"我覺得很多的專家先進都一直在提醒我們接下來的少子化的問題其實是一個我們的勞動制度勞動體制的問題大家都不斷的直指這方面的聲音所以這真的已經不是只是大家說我怎麼樣鼓勵大家生我怎麼樣不補助補錢給生小孩的"},{"start":13031.001,"end":13032.222,"text":"如果能夠做到照顧不離職"},{"start":13055.891,"end":13075.424,"text":"才有辦法讓我們更多的年輕族群願意生小孩同時他也能夠繼續的留在我們的這個職場環境裡面做相關的專業上面的付出或者是勞動上面的付出這都是國家非常非常需要的事情而要做到照顧不離職大家就講到"},{"start":13076.164,"end":13095.717,"text":"最根本的事情就是有薪的彈性親職假這只是一個起步而已所以我們在這邊還是要說我希望勞動部在這方面的研議可以速度可以加快甚至我也認為勞動部其實應該要跟行政院來提出我們必須做這件事情我們必須做這個調整那我們也需要經濟部門跟產業部門一起來去做配合我認為這是應該跟"},{"start":13096.758,"end":13115.76,"text":"行政院很清楚的表明我們有這個需求請行政院也好請經建部門也好一起來的幫助大家完成這件事情不管是該這個陳培宇委員或者是幾位委員講到的他不只是工時上面或者是的彈性調整他也包括我們是不是在我們的勞動內容的設計上面也因為"},{"start":13116.741,"end":13117.181,"text":"接下來請吳春成委員"},{"start":13146.76,"end":13164.95,"text":"吳宗憲委員吳宗憲委員吳宗憲委員不在接下來請吳春成委員吳春成委員吳春成委員不在好那今天的學者專家及委員的發言已經發言完畢那接下來我們請行政機關號做整體的回應那現在請勞動部次長王次長"},{"start":13173.375,"end":13195.971,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位學者專家 大家午安非常感謝今天很多的委員跟學者專家都提供給我們許多寶貴的意見我們也都詳實的做了很多的記錄我相信這個在我們在內部的討論以及跟其他部會的合作上會非常有幫助非常非常感謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":13201.779,"end":13203.3,"text":"市長這麼簡短那經濟部這邊有要做一個回應的嗎經濟部"},{"start":13227.339,"end":13249.039,"text":"經濟部的回應就兩個部分第一個部分就是請各位參考我們那個書面報告就是有三點第一點就是今天的這個議題的話我們希望對經濟法案的影響要多考慮第二個要建議先盤點今天既有的措施然後最後的結語就是希望是說"},{"start":13250.06,"end":13250.1,"text":"主席"},{"start":13272.697,"end":13297.487,"text":"我相信今天不論是學者、專家或者是委員其實針對這個議題就是我們希望能夠這個有薪的彈性親職假那這個因為也討論滿久的所以我們也希望說勞動部跟相關的部會應該要更積極去這個溝通然後看怎麼樣趕快去落實那今天真的非常感謝我們這個各位寶貴的意見"},{"start":13298.928,"end":13323.93,"text":"那我做以下的這個報告委員劉建國所提書面資料列入公報記錄那做以下的結論依據行政立法院職權行使法規定委員會應提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者公聽會報告作為審查特定議案之參考那我們會把各位寶貴的意見及書面資料彙編成冊"},{"start":13326.192,"end":13340.51,"text":"分送給本院的全體委員以及與會的政府機關代表學者專家參院那非常感謝今天各位的出席並提供寶貴的意見本次的公聽會到此結束三位謝謝"}]}},{"id":"156812","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156812","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66782cbeeaefb745c9fb2f3414dbb57b8a8cea236d48226e86be66fd7484734a17d75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:04:17 - 12:10:33","影片長度":"00:06:16","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:04:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:10:33+08:00","duration":376,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.40471875,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.97971875,"end":41.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.38721875,"end":44.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.22221875,"end":66.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.19346875000001,"end":78.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.22534375000001,"end":90.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.66221875000001,"end":105.34784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.84534375000001,"end":116.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.87346875,"end":117.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.97034375000001,"end":120.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.02909375,"end":145.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.42159375,"end":147.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.42971875,"end":153.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.77909375000002,"end":154.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.44971875000002,"end":156.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.59721875,"end":159.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.19159375,"end":177.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.58971875,"end":213.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.20846875,"end":222.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.28721875000002,"end":224.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.63284375,"end":229.95284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.15534375000001,"end":230.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.25221875000003,"end":239.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.80784375000002,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.66784375,"end":256.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.77971875000003,"end":263.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.17096875000004,"end":266.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.27596875,"end":279.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.24034375,"end":280.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.16846875000005,"end":281.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.77596875,"end":286.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.76659375,"end":289.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.16284375000004,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.09909375,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.58409375,"end":300.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.09784375000004,"end":304.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.81034375,"end":326.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.78159375,"end":374.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.55034375,"end":376.19159375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.552,"end":16.296,"text":"有薪彈性親職假的議題從上一屆進到立法院以後其實真的在衛行會討論過非常非常多次"},{"start":32.371,"end":58.056,"text":"談到這個議題其實很多年輕的爸爸媽媽其實真的都跟我們反映現在育嬰留停的制度真的是太難用了一句話講就是太難用了只能夠用月為單位來申請那真的剛剛就像前面幾位說的小孩突然發燒了要照顧的時候你沒有辦法一下子為了小孩發燒我就請一個月的育嬰留停"},{"start":59.036,"end":78.103,"text":"所以年輕爸媽都只能犧牲自己的市價哦那大家面對的事情就是扣薪哦所以這個原本的薪水就已經不一定是高了我們其實有很多的這個年輕的這個工作的主權本來薪水就不一定是高了"},{"start":79.315,"end":104.654,"text":"可是當你生了小孩遇到類似像這樣的事件的時候你又要再請試駕你這幾乎是多重的懲罰好像生小孩變成像是一個懲罰一樣那其實我們其實是有一些相對簡單的方式其實就可以給大家一點彈性的調整我們就可以克服這個問題的但我必須說過去勞動部在這方面的回應真的是太被動了"},{"start":107.881,"end":115.371,"text":"我知道之前我們有一個事辦的計劃可是這事辦計劃的範圍我想之前在未來會大家也給了很多的意見"},{"start":116.949,"end":144.295,"text":"那更不用講哦其實接下來我們遇到這個少子化的問題只會更加的嚴重我我我一直認為我們一直認為說今天少子化的問題真的不是只是衛福部的問題不是少子化辦公室的問題是所有的部會都應該一起來面對的問題今天如果這些相關的問題不克服年輕人真的就是不想生小孩接下來的勞動的問題我也很想問衛福部勞動力的問題"},{"start":146.588,"end":164.393,"text":"會比較小嗎所以我覺得過去我們的被動其實常常都是看短不看長那在這種這種相對比較保守的狀況之下不太願意去做真的比較大幅度的制度上面的檢討"},{"start":166.073,"end":168.675,"text":"公聽委員：洪申翰公聽委員．洪申翰公聽委員．洪申翰公聽委員．洪申翰公聽委員．洪申翰"},{"start":196.293,"end":212.984,"text":"更不用提我一直以來我們都希望這裏面也不是只是勞工部的問題包括我們的財經部門尤其今天經濟部應該也在場我覺得經濟部門也有責任要來跟我們的企業跟我們的產業來去做這方面的溝通"},{"start":214.318,"end":241.436,"text":"因為這已經是各個部會都必須面對到的問題了我們其實已經觸眼可見如果這方面的制度不做變動的話其實台灣整體的不管是勞動力的供給或者是人口上面的問題少子化的問題會帶來多大的負面的影響其實我們都清楚也很多不斷的很多的這個"},{"start":244.718,"end":266.67,"text":"我覺得很多的專家先進都一直在提醒我們接下來的少子化的問題其實是一個我們的勞動制度勞動體制的問題大家都不斷的直指這方面的聲音所以這真的已經不是只是大家說我怎麼樣鼓勵大家生我怎麼樣不補助補錢給生小孩的"},{"start":268.308,"end":269.508,"text":"如果能夠做到照顧不離職"},{"start":293.075,"end":293.295,"text":"公聽委員：洪申翰"},{"start":313.467,"end":332.787,"text":"最根本的事情就是有薪的彈性親職假這只是一個起步而已所以我們在這邊還是要說我希望勞動部在這方面的研議可以速度可以加快甚至我也認為勞動部其實應該要跟行政院來提出我們必須做這件事情我們必須做這個調整那我們也需要經建部門跟產業部門一起來去做配合我認為這是應該跟"},{"start":334.048,"end":353.044,"text":"行政院很清楚的表明我們有這個需求請行政院也好請經建部門也好一起來的幫助大家完成這件事情不管是剛才這個陳培宇委員或者是幾位委員講到的他不只是工時上面或者是的彈性調整他也包括我們是不是在我們的勞動內容的設計上面也因為"},{"start":354.045,"end":354.145,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"156808","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156808","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678955b6014f40a64182f3414dbb57b8a8cea236d48226e86beb8c40d3938d270f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:58:27 - 12:04:10","影片長度":"00:05:43","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:58:27+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:04:10+08:00","duration":343,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.527843750000001,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.98659375000001,"end":97.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.72034375000001,"end":138.97971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.26659375,"end":148.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.81346875,"end":184.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.77846875,"end":205.92284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.05784375000002,"end":206.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.69909375,"end":208.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.67346875,"end":209.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.51721875,"end":249.42659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.49409375000002,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.40346875,"end":313.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.23096875000005,"end":329.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.39721875000004,"end":340.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.74971875,"end":343.47096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.53,"end":31.479,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我想今天非常開心能夠看到這樣子的一個公聽會我想這個少子化的一個議題其實已經似乎已經變成一個臺灣不可逆的一個趨勢了那但是我們如何可以讓我們的社會在職場上面可以更友善就是讓這個願意生育的這樣子的一個夫妻們他們能夠有更多的一些支持背後支持其實也很重要"},{"start":32.139,"end":60.195,"text":"那其實今年4月其實我就已經有提案了包含在這個就業的保險法那提供這個國人的育兒的一些支持那我們也鼓勵是雙親共同育兒而不是真的育兒的責任落在某一方面身上那當然也希望能夠這個新增一個親職的親職假的一個津貼提高育兒留職停薪子女適用的年齡還有實質的這個薪資的一個替代率有一些細節"},{"start":61.175,"end":81.42,"text":"那我在這邊跟大家報告一下那原本我們的這個育嬰留職停薪的一個津貼本來講的是0到3歲但我們希望是能夠改成所謂的育兒留職停薪津貼把適用的子女的年紀是不是能夠拉到所謂的6歲那提高這個實質的薪資替代率從60%提升到80%"},{"start":84.241,"end":85.581,"text":"同時在這個性別工作的平等法的一個修正"},{"start":111.81,"end":115.793,"text":"我們也希望能夠新增親職假親職假的一個津貼採彈性的一個時數來做計算比較容易讓更多的有類似狀況的雙親能夠得以照顧"},{"start":125.366,"end":148.08,"text":"同時在現在我剛剛有提到這個少子化的一個部分我們希望也能夠積極的保障這個受僱者以及收養子女他們的勤領就是這個育兒留職停薪的一個津貼跟親職假津貼的一個權益那在第二個部分其實關於我們的這個性別工作的這個平等法其實我們收到很多這個婦女的團體他們相關的一些意見"},{"start":149.861,"end":166.95,"text":"那剛剛有特別提到其實我們可能再過三個月齁其實這個臺灣恐怕就有一半的人口以上都會是所謂的45歲以上了齁那這也是我們必須要面臨的那現在其實呢在夾在中間的像我們這一類的叫三明治族啦就是上有老下還有小喔"},{"start":167.33,"end":167.37,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":184.835,"end":207.2,"text":"育嬰留職停薪能夠新增一個所謂的長期照顧安排留職停薪也就是說我們要照顧上面的長輩那這個部分其實我也特別有提到我個人的一些就是希望在我們的性別工作平等法裡面有提到這個部分那說穿了其實因為超高齡的一個趨勢如果能夠比照這個趨勢能夠讓所謂的在職照顧者能夠也就是說老人家他也應該要有所謂的育嬰假"},{"start":214.066,"end":241.945,"text":"這個是我提到的一個修法的一個部分那我想我們也希望這個少子化的一個社會趨勢這個比較公務人員每年是不是也能夠有所謂的7天的這個有薪家庭照顧假並放寬所謂的請假的適由因為其實我們知道像我們我剛剛講的像我們這種三民自主其實我們在工作的職場包含我們的EQ也好包含我們的專業也好可能都是相對來講是稍微是更穩定的"},{"start":242.452,"end":259.95,"text":"但是有時候呢必須要家庭跟工作兩頭跑然後除了照顧小的可能長輩他們也面臨就是在生病或者是他們在高齡的時候他們也需要照護的時候其實夾在中間的三民自主其實就非常非常的辛苦了"},{"start":260.535,"end":288.998,"text":"所以當然我們也是鼓勵就是雙親就是夫妻共同來做這樣子的一個育兒或者是照顧親子的長輩的一個責任所以我們也希望是不是採用日或者是時為單位就是比較彈性的來做這樣子的一個計算可能會是往比較好的一個方向那以我為例就之前因為在電視台在工作有時候我們可能正在現場正在直播正在Live的時候"},{"start":289.485,"end":308.091,"text":"我突然會接到學校的電話學校跟我講說我小孩發燒了然後小孩身上起紅疹這個時候叫爸爸也不對因為爸爸出國去出差了所以你就變成是你在工作的當下你是沒辦法馬上抽身然後我還記得那陣子是剛好我小孩發燒住院"},{"start":309.195,"end":332.758,"text":"然後媽媽住院開刀所以變成我一個人偽單親的狀況所以這個部分其實是非常非常辛苦的啦所以在這個所謂的這個希望我們當然要解決少子化的一些問題但是我們在職場是不是能夠更友善的面對就是他們要照顧家人在這個部分給予更多的支持透過我們這個中央我們自己來討論"},{"start":333.729,"end":333.969,"text":"郭昱晴委員"}]}},{"id":"156807","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156807","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678f993e8d781c325282f3414dbb57b8a8cea236d48226e86be2cdafff4c0ecf7955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:52:01 - 11:58:22","影片長度":"00:06:21","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:52:01+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:58:22+08:00","duration":381,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.2122187500000001,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.755343750000002,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.978468750000001,"end":15.437843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.19721875,"end":17.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.32784375,"end":22.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.16659375,"end":23.875343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.28034375,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.39534375,"end":47.078468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.618468750000005,"end":58.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.97534375,"end":92.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.11346875000001,"end":97.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.80471875,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.92784375000001,"end":128.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.85034375,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.64159375,"end":178.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.12534375,"end":182.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.98971875,"end":196.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.63721875000002,"end":199.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.84784375,"end":200.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.19784375,"end":225.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.71721875,"end":226.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.98284375,"end":232.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.88909375,"end":237.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.29346875000002,"end":254.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.01221875000002,"end":273.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.33846875,"end":273.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.60846875000004,"end":279.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.03346875,"end":285.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.99471875,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.60534375000003,"end":301.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.82346875,"end":311.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.84721875,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.66034375000004,"end":338.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.54346875000005,"end":352.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.34284375000004,"end":366.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.74159375000005,"end":376.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.08596875,"end":380.96721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.569,"end":15.018,"text":"謝謝主席那今天非常高興我們可以來討論這個題目喔那我想我就用我自己的生命經驗來跟大家分享我想我就用我自己的生命經驗來跟大家分享我有三個小孩"},{"start":16.26,"end":42.696,"text":"然後我們在學校裡從幼兒園開始他入學開始到上小學結束只要遇到腸病毒我可能就必須要輪流請假所以我們現在雖然有一個叫做無薪的家庭照顧假但是這個家庭照顧假其實是合併你家庭所有的成員發生的事情所以我一年的7天假我根本不夠用但是這時候會怎麼選擇當我跟我先生在討論要請假這件事情會由誰來請假"},{"start":44.457,"end":58.003,"text":"我們會從經濟的角度來看誰來請假那我跟我先生的薪資相比我薪水少所以就會由我來請假所以這就是為什麼我們大部分的工作還是會落在女性因為大部分女性的薪資就是比"},{"start":59.008,"end":76.341,"text":"男性還要來得少這是一般來說我們呈現的一個結果那我今天也想要先定調一件事情我們今天在討論友善家庭或是要彈性有性親職假的時候並不是只是想要女生把小孩生出來而是說我們如何去支持我們的家"},{"start":76.981,"end":77.402,"text":"張雅琳"},{"start":93.214,"end":118.617,"text":"那再來就是說因為剛有講嘛齁我們的這個因為現在我們又剛好落在這個40幾歲的年紀長輩們也開始生病了那我們就要開始要去照顧我們的長輩所以醫院職場家庭三頭燒欸是三頭燒所以我會認為說我們是有必要的從新的來檢討我們現在的不管是彈性暈假因為我知道年底也要做一個檢討了齁"},{"start":120.899,"end":121.46,"text":"家庭照顧家"},{"start":137.921,"end":137.961,"text":"張雅琳"},{"start":160.209,"end":181.975,"text":"請在什麼用途呢?帶小孩出去玩因為週末人潮非常非常擁擠爸媽也都非常累了要他出去玩這其實是在去年特國盟也做了一個兒童的調查之後兒童都說他為什麼沒辦法出去玩因為週末爸爸媽都好累喔他們不想出門所以我們有看到日本跟新加坡有家長用這個假呢帶小孩出去玩"},{"start":184.237,"end":196.631,"text":"這也是一個非常好的親子建立關係的機會所以我個人是非常希望我們可以有更多的支持在有薪的部分不然最後犧牲的永遠會是那個弱勢的女性"},{"start":198.312,"end":225.068,"text":"再來就是說其實我自己去年我不曉得我們勞動部知不知道其實親子天下一直在做這個有善家庭職場的調查那他們去年有一個論壇那論壇裡面呢其實都是裡面就有講到各種大型企業啦中小型企業甚至小型企業我如何的去做到有善家庭那企業裡面他們有一個反應我覺得這個也可以勞動部來去做思考或是經濟部一起來思考"},{"start":225.848,"end":254.025,"text":"到底這些中小企業有沒有方法知道他可以怎麼樣做到友善家庭還是他用他過去的想像覺得我要怎麼樣怎麼樣去做才能我要怎麼樣去做他用他過去的想像可是他沒有辦法去對應到說現在新時代有新的工具數位的工作數位的工具遠端的工作等等的是不是可以來幫助大家得到這些資訊可能開一些座談會啦交流會讓大家有這些想像"},{"start":255.066,"end":279.503,"text":"或是實踐的方法可以互相交流因為這是企業反映的他也有想做可是他真的不知道怎麼做那我們一個政策一直下去可是沒有告訴他方法他永遠就是做不到那永遠到最後我們的女性我們的家長就是得不到支持所以我認為這個其實是我們必須要重新的來去幫我們的中小企業去建立一些交流的管道讓彼此知道一些方法"},{"start":281.055,"end":300.221,"text":"那我想最後分享一個經驗就是說因為我其實在出社會的前10年我在大型企業外商工作那我其實當然外商相對來說我們的福利是好的但是在我要生第二胎小孩的時候我就重新要思考我到底要不要回職場"},{"start":301.86,"end":318.801,"text":"因為當我在去思考我要怎麼去接受我要怎麼去打預防針光這些很瑣碎的事情的時候我就開始去思考這會不會影響到我職場的升遷因為當我三幾歲我已經要往下一個level去升了我能不能升遷我能不能負荷所以在當下我後來就決定了"},{"start":319.722,"end":337.57,"text":"我跟一群家長我們成立了就是環我特色公園行動聯盟一個NGO的組織那這個NGO的組織我想跟大家分享一下我們在過去的那9年的時間我們改建了全台灣400座特色公園我們跟十幾個縣市政府都有合作那怎麼做到我們沒有一個辦公室欸"},{"start":338.61,"end":352.249,"text":"我們全部都是遠端線上用數位工具來工作而是我們同時讓家長們在4點到6點我們不開會早上8點開始開會我們去調整我們所有的工作時間來配合家長們的作息"},{"start":353.373,"end":354.114,"text":"張雅琳委員發言"}]}},{"id":"156793","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156793","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66789cb9c94ac10f8b222f3414dbb57b8a8cce953f66f7e506052100f0c7800c801b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:45:16 - 11:51:57","影片長度":"00:06:41","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:45:16+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:51:57+08:00","duration":401,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.6590937500000003,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.62346875,"end":112.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.43096875,"end":308.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.06284375,"end":316.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.87596875,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.71909375,"end":322.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.00159375000004,"end":395.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.61034375,"end":400.37346875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.663,"end":31.17,"text":"好 謝謝主席那也非常感謝今天有各位先進提供了非常多寶貴的意見那我想要提出來的是我想要直接切入其實我自己就是兩個孩子的媽媽而且是相對有一些特殊狀況難以照顧的兩個男孩但是我要說我真的非常非常的幸運我在前面10年的工作狀況是可以調整的所以我可以花很多的時間在協助我們家裡的小孩但是我知道其實就在我照顧我的小孩然後"},{"start":31.71,"end":50.898,"text":"坦信的接工作期間其實我知道非常多家長是來自於所謂三明治家庭雙薪家庭身心障礙者的家庭甚至是特教生的家庭有非常多照顧的困境跟需求可能更不是我們一般家庭所可以想像的那這些人呢在陪同子女跟工作賺錢之間過往因為這些狀況往往必須做出選擇而這個選擇常常也會阻礙了個人的職涯發展跟生涯發展所以我想要說"},{"start":59.722,"end":71.83,"text":"其實這種兩難就我過去在當一個全職家長兼職接工作的人的身上我認為其實我每一天都在面對這個困境也就是說例如說在勞動部今天的相關業務報告裡面他提到有所謂的彈性事辦的這個企業他們設了一個計畫叫做可以讓員工預先提出在前一天提出可是我想問有時候孩子發燒不是在前一天發燒他也不會跟你預告媽媽我明天要發燒他可能一早起來他就發燒了"},{"start":89.162,"end":89.262,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":113.496,"end":139.219,"text":"在性別平等工作法裡面呢要不要新增所謂的有薪彈性親職假我當然是樂意從我剛剛所的論述我當然是樂意有這樣的相關政策但是我也要積極提醒勞動部在相關法規範我知道你們現在也做了一些示範也可能後續有很多法規範要調整但我們意識到其實最困難是所有配套措施不管是相關的執法相關的政策推動如果沒有好的社會溝通凝聚公視"},{"start":141.02,"end":155.535,"text":"讓所有人在這件事情上有最大的共識一旦相關法規範修下去之後一定會出現非常多現場的困境我舉一些例子例如說在不同的企業規模不同的工作專業領域在試用上是否有所不同"},{"start":156.435,"end":183.422,"text":"在勞動部的相關業務報告裡面呢臺灣中小企業5人以下占90%而這些職場的樣態有沒有機會在勞動部的法規範規範當中也可以考慮到他們的需求考慮到老闆的需求也考慮到員工的需求我覺得這件事情非常的重要還有對於搭配育嬰留職停薪津貼半年八成薪資的政策底下津貼是否要維持如果要維持那所謂的一個小時半天或數天的薪資要如何計算"},{"start":184.242,"end":184.302,"text":"公聽會：陳培瑜"},{"start":205.413,"end":220.92,"text":"但是我也要提有非常多委員跟先進提出來這麼多困難的配套但有一件事情我覺得可能是大家可以共同來思考另外一個事情我們現在所有職場的工作樣態是因著前一個世代的整個資本主義的發展"},{"start":221.4,"end":245.478,"text":"讓我們所有現在公司的工作型態是長成這個樣子但是面臨的少子化已經不是台灣的議題是全球的議題我們可以參考非常多歐洲國家的經驗他們鼓勵非常多中小企業把職務的內容工作的內容做重新設計跟調整不是所謂的心理價生理價就可以解決而是當我的職務內容做了分割做了調整我可能就不用太擔心現場人力配置的問題"},{"start":246.178,"end":246.258,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":261.898,"end":268.345,"text":"出車的這個部分他們都為了這些特教生做了大量的重新設計結果這個設計不僅加會了特教生還甚至讓一般的員工都感覺到整個環境變友善整個職場變友善了然後甚至就讓更多員工會願意介紹更多人進到這個企業上班"},{"start":279.577,"end":308.265,"text":"所以這個企業雖然已經是60年的老招牌企業但是他完全沒有缺工的問題甚至有更多年輕人願意加入這個公司我想要講的是勞動部也請你們積極的面對植物內容重新設計這件事情其實你們有更多的機制可以相關可以跟相關的企業討論但是如果你們只談相關的時間配套不談植物內容重新設計的想像的可能性我認為這件事情再討論3年5年10年都不會有進展這是第一個部分"},{"start":309.125,"end":313.347,"text":"家庭教育中心這幾年對於臺灣新世代的家長到底提供了什麼樣具體而且有效而且有意義的服務讓更多的家長願意讓更多年輕人願意走入家庭結婚生小孩但如果家庭教育中心跟"},{"start":336.815,"end":337.035,"text":"陳培瑜"},{"start":353.346,"end":353.406,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":375.24,"end":375.76,"text":"陳培瑜委員 接下來請張雅琳委員發言"}]}},{"id":"156787","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156787","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d96b7c1464cd18b82f3414dbb57b8a8cce953f66f7e506058c182ccf94525d475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:32:43 - 11:38:32","影片長度":"00:05:49","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:32:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:38:32+08:00","duration":349,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.392843750000001,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.085968750000006,"end":81.08159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.25034375,"end":181.89284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.94346875000002,"end":204.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.38721875000002,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.42034375,"end":253.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.10096875000002,"end":268.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.41096875,"end":281.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.70846875,"end":286.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.53034375000004,"end":289.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.09534375000004,"end":306.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.83534375,"end":314.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.12096875000003,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.29784375,"end":326.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.71409375,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.72971875,"end":346.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.89221875000004,"end":349.44471875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.651,"end":29.587,"text":"謝謝主席 這個今天是在育嬰留職停薪的制度中增加有薪彈性親職假的可行性的這個公聽會那本期的基點意見供各界先進做參考第一這個少子化確實個大問題內政部護證室的資料顯示這個新生兒出生人數去年死產款5500人創下歷史性低近年來基本上是斷崖式的下降"},{"start":30.847,"end":52.199,"text":"少子女化帶來的衝擊性是非常多面向的從勞動力的減少、經濟活力的減弱、未來高的撫養比其實在在影響國家的長期發展跟競爭力當然是所謂的國安危機第二個談到政府因應少子女化的策略為了改善這樣子的問題行政院一直在推動0到6歲國家一起養"},{"start":53.18,"end":80.923,"text":"但是現行的這個生育政策大概有超過七成的民眾是不買單或者是無感的這是一個很嚴重的一個狀況職場環境的面對是否足夠的友善社會氛圍有沒有改善這個其實都很大的討論空間也有檢討的必要如果行政院現在要繼續0到6歲一起養的這樣子的一個政策指導跟綱領的話我們在討論今天的這個相關的一些制度的時候其實政府的態度是什麼版本是什麼其實是非常重要的"},{"start":81.423,"end":105.063,"text":"面對這個職場還有放假制度的調整他是微調還是大刀闊斧的改革啊其實我們都期待聽到這個政府的想法剛剛也有與會的先進有講賴總統有所謂的雙照顧這樣一個政策具體來講落實在法案上是什麼樣子我想這政府應該要給大家一個交代這個才能夠有一個更好的討論基礎第三回到今天的主題"},{"start":106.103,"end":128.372,"text":"剛剛我們的王淑芸教授我也引用一下她曾經講的說育嬰假雖然是勞工的權益但在現實中提出申請的人會自我評估是否回得到本來的工作崗位這也導致台灣目前的申請育嬰假的比例其實並沒有想像中的高在早先之前前面幾位專家學者也有特別談到中小企業的問題這表示我們現行的制度從過去它只是微調微調再微調並沒有解決根本的問題嘛"},{"start":129.492,"end":153.642,"text":"這個大企業也許可以配合政府的政策可以確實的帶來一些改善可是這剛剛也有專家有講這臺灣大部分是所謂的中小企業佔98%到99%也有教授講說制度是相牽於社會這本是非常同意但我們有沒有針對中小企業這樣子的一個模式這樣一個社會的氛圍去做制度的設計跟改善我想這也是勞動部值得去思考的一個議題的方向但實務上"},{"start":155.162,"end":181.476,"text":"實務上就是因為缺乏彈性所以你現在這個育嬰假這個兩年但以半年為一單位來處理也許大企業是可以適用但中小企業大多不適用也實質造成了這個政策實行下去的實質影響恐怕是有限的那這是一個大的問題希望這個法案到時候討論的時候可以針對這樣的問題來對症下藥所以第四點針對這個有薪彈性的親職假的引入基本上其實是"},{"start":182.176,"end":207.993,"text":"我覺得是解決台灣的社會問題啦因為你現在用這種快狀式的很多中華企業沒有辦法使用那我如果換一個思維用相對有彈性的方式縮短時間增大彈性的方式能不能比較有效的執行這樣的一個政策我想是值得來做嘗試的但我也要講我們政府過去在做所謂彈性工時的事辦的時候這我有講嘛你如果所有的東西都只是微調微調是看不出效果微調也不會讓人民有感一個小時或兩個小時那代表什麼呢"},{"start":208.573,"end":234.03,"text":"你如果沒有大刀闊斧的改革決心你有辦法解決每一年減少幾萬人的這樣子的一個少子女化的問題嗎這我們在期待其實是一個政府的大破大立的這樣子的一個態度有薪彈性親職假引入才能夠更有靈活的安排工作跟家庭生活或者是剛剛所講的臨時停課疾病照顧學校教育活動才能夠讓家庭有更多的時間陪伴孩子的成長所以這樣育嬰假或者是未來比如說放寬時間變所謂育兒假"},{"start":236.151,"end":253.429,"text":"讓單位縮減並且彈性化我想是值得大家來共同支持的那最後要花一點點時間去談制度的一些改革的一個層面就是說剛剛我在聽前面各個先進在談的時候其實也有談到一個很重要的問題也是我們我覺得是接下來修法最大的挑戰其實是所謂的制度整合"},{"start":254.21,"end":280.023,"text":"因為如果我要兼顧彈性的話那為什麼不是從另外一個邏輯就是我加大所謂的家庭照顧家的適用範圍跟適用時間那我想問題可能是出在什麼因為你有薪跟無薪這兩套你怎麼整合在同一個制度下面它就是一個大的問題嘛也就是因為這樣的關係所以大家今天要回到所謂的育嬰留停這樣子的一個框架下來做討論但是不管怎麼說如果少子女化是一個國家面對的重大國安危機難道不應該並行討論嗎"},{"start":281.784,"end":286.534,"text":"但是如果我們的中央政府沒有一個明確的態度沒有一個明確的改革方向"},{"start":287.574,"end":316.524,"text":"那請問大家怎麼樣綜合做討論如果大家只是立法因為立法委員大家都有提案權利然後大家每一塊其實都重視我也希望放寬家庭照顧假我也希望育嬰留庭的彈性可以增加那到最後的結果就是版本零零碎碎然後我們可能要花大量的討論時間但到了最後還是只能變成微調的邏輯那真的能夠解決問題嗎我今天就當烏鴉今天不管今天是執政或在野都會有這樣子的一個狀況但我們如果真的要改變這件事情我覺得政府的責任更大一些"},{"start":317.364,"end":317.524,"text":"臭臭臭"},{"start":348.47,"end":349.057,"text":"謝謝牛煦庭委員"}]}},{"id":"156778","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156778","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667897bc4748e54c3dd62f3414dbb57b8a8cce953f66f7e50605064411f9f51987335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:16:17 - 11:20:50","影片長度":"00:04:33","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:16:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:20:50+08:00","duration":273,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.40096875,"end":9.497843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.818468750000001,"end":19.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.825343750000002,"end":27.452843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.11096875,"end":31.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.266593750000002,"end":44.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.95221875,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.579718750000005,"end":58.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.55346875,"end":61.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.08471875,"end":64.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.48909375000001,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.21471875,"end":66.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.48034375,"end":109.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.80284375000001,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.29596875,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.52784375,"end":126.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.62721875000001,"end":140.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.42659375,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.86846875,"end":152.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.26034375,"end":153.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.72846875000002,"end":158.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.99346875,"end":197.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.00846875000002,"end":208.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.50034375,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.81221875,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.12284375000002,"end":247.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.78971875000002,"end":266.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.97659375,"end":269.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.12346875000003,"end":273.30471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.75,"end":24.155,"text":"謝謝主席我想今天的公聽會很感謝黃昭偉安排這樣的公聽會真的非常有意義喔那針對是否修法來增設有有薪的彈性親職假這個部分我相信透過很多專家"},{"start":25.135,"end":51.838,"text":"委員還有包括公民團體的這些討論對於修法應該會有更多的縮遠的考慮那當然這部分還有很多的程序要進行不會在進度上有那麼快的部分那本期想要針對近期所推的彈性育嬰假來說明畢竟要修正相關的這個育嬰留職停薪實施辦法在程序上還是比較便捷一點"},{"start":52.819,"end":77.052,"text":"就勞動部跟目前我們從媒體上所看到的資料可以整理的知道我們在2023年申請育嬰留職停薪的件數是51.1萬件從我們所研究發現2023年事實上出生的嬰兒有13.5萬人這麼多如果按照這個父母都可以申請勤領6個月的狀況之下"},{"start":79.493,"end":94.002,"text":"應該會有162萬件的這個情靈的需求可是事實上只有三成的這些父母來申請表示說這個申請量真的是還有提升的空間我們希望能夠多瞭解一下"},{"start":94.922,"end":123.115,"text":"為什麼只有三成的這些父母他來願意來做這方面的申請那除了這個申請量以外那我們也想要了解的就是那在男女的性別的這個申請部分比例也明顯的是不一樣的男性才只有兩成五不到但是明顯的是這部分是他們不願還是不敢申請相關的這個留職停薪的情形"},{"start":124.656,"end":144.108,"text":"我們勞動部的統計資料裡面似乎只能看到這個表面的數字那相關的這個原因不是那麼清楚所以即使本席也希望能夠勞動部應該做一些專案研究多了解看看為什麼這個男女的這個申請比例會有這麼大懸殊的這個問題"},{"start":145.749,"end":159.776,"text":"那另外其實我們也了解行政院的0到6歲國家一起養的政策當中將試辦這個彈性育嬰留職停薪要納入我們的監禁措施所以本席也認為勞動部也應該要敬恕跟國人"},{"start":162.757,"end":190.783,"text":"把事辦的情形能夠做一個公佈的同時也能夠確定他將來要實施的期程讓民眾可以有更多的了解跟掌握這是10月11號已經有相關的這個座談會我們也看到相關的紀錄裡面告訴我們說其實很多的事辦參與者的公司最多的意見其實不是在於人力調派的問題而是在於"},{"start":191.563,"end":210.729,"text":"希望勞動部能夠簡化彈性育嬰留停申請的行政程序當然事辦的參與事辦者不是那麼多所以有一些意見還無法充分的來表示這個問題是重點或是重心之所在不過他們很願意表達的就是"},{"start":211.869,"end":236.645,"text":"有關於這個勞動部能夠簡化程序這一部分所以也期待勞動部能夠把這個意見聽進去未來再做這個簡化彈性育嬰留停程序的行政程序能夠讓民眾在需要的時候可以更有方便而且更能夠順利的來參與申請那其實我們看到的資料真的是在這個89家的參與公司當中只有21家才166人申請這個"},{"start":241.608,"end":268.687,"text":"的確數字現在會是偏低所以要能夠涵掛到未來我們期待這個彈性育嬰假的事辦的這些要推估的這種可能性還是相當相當的困難所以請勞動部能夠盡速的執行這個彈性育嬰假的這個政策讓我們的所有的民眾可以有效的來有需要的時候可以來利用這樣的這個彈性的育嬰假以上報告"},{"start":272.2,"end":272.446,"text":"謝謝王正旭"}]}},{"id":"156776","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156776","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678015e3cd758e467c32f3414dbb57b8a8cce953f66f7e5060599b491e425fd1a755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"11:09:46 - 11:16:13","影片長度":"00:06:27","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:09:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:16:13+08:00","duration":387,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.422218750000001,"end":19.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.082843750000002,"end":26.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.60909375,"end":27.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.419093750000002,"end":221.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.63346875000002,"end":245.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.43971875000003,"end":292.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.59284375000004,"end":383.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.78096875,"end":387.17721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.458,"end":25.517,"text":"主席各位學者專家還有各位委員各位官員大家好我是陳菁徽委員但我同時也是一個婦產科還有不孕症的醫師以及我是一個不孕症的患者所以生育是我的專業也是我的專長我常常跟很多個案因為我的個案都比較高齡"},{"start":26.658,"end":48.559,"text":"他們面對工作的壓力然後高齡下生育以後就會常常詢問我關於生育以後如何要兼顧職場的困擾那其實我本人也常常在思考說像我目前生在這麼高壓的工作職場下要如何再願意生下一胎因為我本人也是有意願可以再生下一胎的"},{"start":48.979,"end":64.206,"text":"所以今天呢非常關注我們國家整體的生育政策包括我們現在要討論的親職假因為我也常常是這個小孩生病的受害者那過去在委員會我就有許多發言議題都是關於育兒友善生育促進的"},{"start":65.126,"end":65.286,"text":"公聽會：陳菁徽"},{"start":95.446,"end":117.885,"text":"首先我們講到人口危機我知道早上超級多委員都已經講到我們的生育率是如何的低迷但分成兩類一類是不想生一類是生不出來不能生我通常我自己的專業是在解決不能生的這一塊可是今天親職假我們要討論的是不想生剛也有講到腸病毒腸病毒為例"},{"start":119.746,"end":145.235,"text":"這個到3歲到10歲都是一個好發期一發病就是建議要請假7天那我更慘因為我有三個所以我一個重腸病毒我就要有心理準備再來就是第二個第三個家長就必須要待在家裡陪他可是我的狀況沒有辦法所以我要送到我公婆家那這三個都中了以後再來就是我公婆會跟著感冒所以就對這個請假真的是一個很大的困擾"},{"start":146.255,"end":162.515,"text":"只有年休十幾天的家長來說根本就不可能負擔這樣子的請假再來我們要深挖誰來顧小孩這樣子的問題過去我也質詢過男性的孕育假比例在2022年是因為我們的疫情所以創下新高25%"},{"start":164.477,"end":180.619,"text":"只是對比起來女性還是有八成需要請那都是因為育兒現在的制度沒有辦法給彈性的假爸媽自己的年假不夠用最後呢就是女性為了育兒要離開職場這也是影響到我們國家女性勞動"},{"start":181.981,"end":204.958,"text":"參與率只有51%甚至在50歲以後大幅下滑的原因所以說如果沒有提供親職假不但是不想生不願意生家長沒有穩定的工作環境那現在大家開始追求平等自我實現等等在現在的制度下犧牲的就是我們的勞參率生育的意願還有人口成長率"},{"start":205.598,"end":233.219,"text":"好那當然大家很關注的就是這件事情的可行性我舉國外的例子來說等等我也要跟很多丹麥的國會議員一起交流我也想要跟他們談論這樣子的議題彈性的親職假我們有瑞典的案例這個早上有委員講過了讓家長在孩子12歲以前靈活的運用480天的假期才能面對小孩臨時生病發燒學校停課很多不同的突發狀況"},{"start":234.6,"end":245.033,"text":"英國也提供了長達37週有薪夫妻共享的親職假無薪更是長達50週所以我今天帶了一個英國的圖卡"},{"start":246.925,"end":272.106,"text":"讓英國的夫妻可以自由的調配假期也可以在制度設計中傳達雙親共同養育責任這樣子的觀念那這個圖卡的意思就是說他2013年針對OECD國家1970到2010年的研究休假影響就會發現親職假對於平衡家庭工作還有提升生育率有正面的影響這張圖是在講說"},{"start":274.608,"end":291.822,"text":"英國在1999年推出親職假以後紅色的線是生育率藍色的線是活產率你就會發現他的生育率活產率就在推出親職假這個時間點以後才開始上升不然他之前也是很衰弱"},{"start":293.223,"end":310.311,"text":"眾上所述,現在臺灣面臨勞動力流失和人口減少的問題如果我們可以透過完善的輕職假制度來回應包括到8歲以前都能夠有輕職假遇到突發狀況可以彈性請假、小時制的制度"},{"start":310.791,"end":328.254,"text":"通過這些措施來減少勞動市場的性別刻板印象造成女生勞動力流失也增加父母雙親的生育意願才能回應現在最起步的勞動力跟生育的問題最後我也想提一下我們常聽到勞動部部長"},{"start":329.155,"end":329.195,"text":"主席"},{"start":352.17,"end":352.651,"text":"公聽會：陳菁徽"},{"start":371.59,"end":372.431,"text":"謝謝陳菁徽委員的發言"}]}},{"id":"156758","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156758","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66789930b6d7718fb4e92f3414dbb57b8a8cce953f66f7e50605d32e804fdbe4d6515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"10:54:42 - 11:02:03","影片長度":"00:07:21","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:54:42+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:02:03+08:00","duration":441,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.37034375,"end":16.230968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.602218750000002,"end":20.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.22596875,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.06034375,"end":32.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.650343750000005,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.70784375,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.26284375,"end":119.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.53971875,"end":126.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.84659375000001,"end":132.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.78221875,"end":134.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.57534375,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.37221875,"end":141.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.54034375,"end":168.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.51096875000002,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.95346875,"end":175.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.56471875,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.04534375,"end":193.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.02596875,"end":197.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.68784375,"end":239.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.48284375000003,"end":240.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.17471875,"end":248.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.74721875,"end":274.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.28346875,"end":287.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.91846875000005,"end":302.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.30846875000003,"end":316.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.62284375,"end":366.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.80909375000005,"end":370.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.53846875000005,"end":384.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.39284375,"end":387.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.97034375000004,"end":390.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.92346875000004,"end":392.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.37471875,"end":394.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.10846875000004,"end":395.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.45846875,"end":416.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.38784375,"end":423.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.23034375000003,"end":433.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.02159375,"end":441.48096875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":15.387,"end":42.148,"text":"好 謝謝主席在場的所有委員及各位這個專家學者先進大家早安首先是要感謝我們李淵琴召委安排今天的這個這個公聽會來談論這個有薪彈性親職假的可行性那當然一開始要先談到為什麼今天會在這邊談論這個有薪彈性親職假的這個可行性的公聽會呢我想最主要也是因為現代社會的結構尤其年輕的家庭多數都是這個雙薪家庭"},{"start":42.768,"end":70.215,"text":"那雙薪家庭之外也是因為一個人的薪水可能養不起全家那我想這件事情整個國家社會都有共同的責任所以我想在這個事情上面國家的確是應該要有一些道義來處理這個問題讓現代的家庭他能夠感生能養也同時能夠保有工作那剛剛前面有幾位專家學者提到說包含中小企業擔心擔心所謂大缺工時代如果再放這個有薪的"},{"start":70.835,"end":90.243,"text":"彈性親職假會加劇這個所謂缺工的問題影響但是我們要強調缺工問題在本質上他是有替代方案的那另外一件事情是就是因為缺工為什麼會缺工就是因為我們的這個家庭的問題很多的家人他因為要照顧小孩他不得不放棄工作所以他離開職場"},{"start":91.644,"end":118.897,"text":"那如果因為怕擔心說要放這個親職家庭照顧假而讓這個家庭裡面有任何一方不能去工作的話我想他會導致的結果是大家會可能為了工作反而不願意生小孩這我想也是臺灣的現狀也是我們為什麼這個即便今年是農年的情況上面還是有面臨這麼強烈的少子化的問題那如果這個少子化的問題加劇下去我想對企業主來講坦白講"},{"start":119.937,"end":131.688,"text":"這個缺工問題只會越來越嚴重所以站在整個整體的立場來講看起來我們應該解決的是讓少子化問題能夠被解決那我們才有機會解決所謂缺工的問題那再來"},{"start":134.981,"end":156.382,"text":"這個臺灣的主要的這個經濟體的確是中小企業但是我們在基層在地方上很明顯的知道目前所謂的育嬰留停這件事情在5人以下的中小企業實務上到底有多少人能夠請尤其是婦女的部分到底有多少人敢請半年以上到2年的育嬰留停"},{"start":156.963,"end":169.998,"text":"他請了之後他的工作是不是就不復存在所以這是實務上的問題那也就是回到第一個問題就如果我會因為請孕孕留庭導致我的工作不復存在的話那我乾脆不要生那乾脆不要生所以這個勞動力就馬上"},{"start":172.02,"end":172.16,"text":"黃健豪議員"},{"start":194.102,"end":214.845,"text":"最近勞動部有推動的所謂彈性育嬰假制度當然這可能也是為了去解決剛剛提到的要長期請半年以上的育嬰留庭它產生的問題但實際上到底成效如何我想也要等到這個事辦結束之後才能看到結果但是我們到目前來講根據統計目前全國只有89家公司單位提出申請"},{"start":215.566,"end":238.906,"text":"我想全台灣的事業單位或公務器官不會只有89家但是也只有89家提出來就表示這件事情還是沒辦法實際上的解決工作跟照顧小孩這件事情上面它實際上所面臨產生的問題所以到底要彈性育嬰留職停薪比較好呢還是新增所謂的親職假或者放寬家庭照顧假比較好我想可以做一個簡單的討論"},{"start":240.526,"end":268.223,"text":"第一個當然育嬰留職停薪對本席來講對我們一般人的概念來講他是一個有計劃性長期的去顧小孩去照顧小孩就算即便現在所謂的彈性這個育嬰留停的部分他也必須提早5天去申請但是就是因為他需要計劃性他需要提早去做這件事情所以他本質上在現階段來講很多時候照顧小孩就我覺得我在這邊其實是有很有一個代表性就是因為自己有這個所謂3歲的小孩"},{"start":269.184,"end":287.117,"text":"那所以這種年輕家庭最大問題就是說就像前面有人提到的當學校一突然放假的時候不管是因為腸病毒全班停課還是你自己小孩生病因為發燒臨時要停課這個彈性育嬰留停性他是沒辦法處理這件事情的他必須透過"},{"start":288.038,"end":301.384,"text":"所謂的親職假或者是透過所謂家庭照顧假才能夠來處理所以這部分我們在今天開公聽會特別講到希望說在親職假跟家庭照顧假上面能夠做一定的放寬或者是新增相關的這個問題"},{"start":303.405,"end":331.465,"text":"因為家庭照顧假現階段是說如果家庭成員預防接走發生嚴重疾病或其他重大事故要親自照顧的時候才能夠請所謂家庭照顧假而且一年只有7天為限但實際上來講以我這個女兒開學以來到現在停課的次數已經超過了7天如果我們沒有這樣子的經濟能力去處理問題的話其實多數的雙薪家庭他面臨到小孩一直在放假這件事情他沒有人可以照顧小孩他是有造成很大的困擾"},{"start":332.185,"end":360.374,"text":"所以實際上就很多年輕的家人他乾脆就直接辦離職就離開了職場所以我們希望說在家庭照顧假第一個要把家庭照顧假的這個條件來把放寬不一定僅限於這個重大事故或者發生嚴重疾病而是如果有年幼子女需要親自照顧的時候可以請家庭照顧假這部分我也提出相關的修法那另外以至性外所謂親職假因為目前我們提到像留職停薪這部分也是限於3歲以下"},{"start":360.934,"end":361.354,"text":"國際社會福利及衛生環境委員"},{"start":390.995,"end":391.839,"text":"那最後還是要回到這個職場的問題"},{"start":395.165,"end":422.678,"text":"如果今天不管是中小企業也好或大企業也好包含之前的調查也好如果今天能夠有所謂親職假或是家庭照顧假的放寬彈性使用我不用真的離開職場我也能夠同時兼顧我的工作也兼顧我的家庭我想這對企業主對工作來講對國家社會的生產力來講或對每一個家庭的照顧來講才是一個三贏的這個方案所以希望這個修法能夠順利的推動也希望各位專家學者繼續提供寶貴意見謝謝"},{"start":426.147,"end":426.588,"text":"黃健豪委員"}]}},{"id":"156742","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156742","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678dcc7949278781eaa2f3414dbb57b8a8cd434f0d3d07bbac15a549a2cf34375e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"10:21:43 - 10:28:17","影片長度":"00:06:34","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:21:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T10:28:17+08:00","duration":394,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.2034687500000003,"end":4.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.599718750000001,"end":26.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.250343750000003,"end":36.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.70034375,"end":38.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.62409375,"end":39.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.619718750000004,"end":46.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.01096875,"end":51.719093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.39409375,"end":52.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.119718750000004,"end":55.937843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.971593750000004,"end":60.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.52784375,"end":70.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.31534375000001,"end":72.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.89721875000001,"end":73.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.75784375,"end":87.19034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.54471875,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.64409375000001,"end":126.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.49596875,"end":173.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.92784375000002,"end":195.91596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.94971875000002,"end":222.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.13096875000002,"end":226.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.93221875,"end":230.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.45909375000002,"end":242.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.63846875000002,"end":258.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.11721875,"end":262.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.01096875,"end":270.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.27971875000003,"end":289.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.57221875,"end":316.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.31471875,"end":320.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.34784375000004,"end":344.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.27659375,"end":390.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.05409375000005,"end":394.97346875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.625,"end":16.495,"text":"今天很高興有這麼多的專家學者能夠一起共同來探討這個問題的確今年9月已經只剩下9萬多的話加上"},{"start":16.974,"end":17.154,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":39.659,"end":67.827,"text":"特別是在結婚有小孩那幾年就會面對到這樣的一個問題那過去我自己服務的機構的年輕人夥伴也是這樣子直到現在也是這樣子那在2021年這個國家女性的勞參率那的確我們看到30歲就往下降回到我們自己的初婚年齡的話女性的初婚年齡大概30 31生小孩"},{"start":68.223,"end":77.651,"text":"所以這張圖就很可以解釋女性大概會因為要職場跟我們的在孩子家庭當中去做選擇"},{"start":79.208,"end":106.745,"text":"今天不想說只單一談這個因為沒有錯今天事實上是講的是彈性親職假可是很多時候很多孩子跟老人家的壓力都擔負在我們的一個女性的角色上所以照顧離職率也到達14.96%那原因就是因為要去照顧家人那這家人很廣泛可能事實上是小孩可能也是老人"},{"start":107.505,"end":128.536,"text":"上有兒女 上有父母 蠟燭兩頭燒一年有7天的年假 再加上14天的市假可是如果講我的孩子生病了 所以有一年我自己的孩子進到幼兒園"},{"start":130.25,"end":130.45,"text":"公聽會．林月琴"},{"start":158.544,"end":173.36,"text":"的確現在有家庭照顧假那事實上是沒有給薪的那過去一直以來是用育嬰的話是用我們的育嬰留職停薪那是針對有孩子生出來的時候我有半年的時間那給到六成薪"},{"start":174.076,"end":188.315,"text":"那後來的確有加碼在2021年的時候加碼到八成薪那時候我們在民間團體倡議的時候的確加碼了但更早之前我們還是期待事實上可比照瑞典到14個月甚至事實上到九成薪"},{"start":189.076,"end":208.489,"text":"不過政府在採算的結果裡邊大概只給到八成心並沒有考慮拉倉只有拉高而已到2024年民間團體照樣的倡議說是不是可以試辦彈性嬰嬰假不過今天還是要提出有一個如果要講到女性的話我就要來談一個除了親職假還有個子職假"},{"start":210.011,"end":210.131,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":224.161,"end":232.044,"text":"在事辦之後我們看到有些效果在也就是男性請假的人數增加了4萬上升比例大6%那達到25%來分擔掉女性的一些育嬰的壓力"},{"start":254.042,"end":254.443,"text":"李慧琴議員"},{"start":266.758,"end":267.318,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":289.764,"end":315.257,"text":"主義者的日本都已經把要求男性一定要來申請就是有四周的一個育嬰假那父母雙方都可以申請那這幾個國家可以看到一個是採用彈性工時或轉為部分工時來照顧不離職以外延長請假的年限父母共同承擔還有彈性的計價時數"},{"start":318.099,"end":337.133,"text":"現行的跟勞動部的 勞動部我剛剛看報告也開始表示企業也不反對民間倡議的執理滿7歲以前還有以月、日、小時為單位尤其是小時 他們需求可能會是比較高的話還有育嬰津貼為配套"},{"start":338.434,"end":367.485,"text":"那如果能夠朝向這樣方向做的話我覺得才有辦法去解決我們這樣問題看有沒有可能考慮把他時間拉長我如果孩子三歲以後才需要不限定一定要三歲以前不過顧得了嬰兒到兒童可是老人當然我們也有民間團體在倡議也就是有沒有可能有30天的有薪照顧假150天彈性假這個未來我覺得也是一個勢在必行因為明年就走到"},{"start":367.925,"end":368.726,"text":"林月琴議員發言"}]}},{"id":"156733","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156733","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66780955dff09f0b478b2f3414dbb57b8a8cd434f0d3d07bbac1b7349d8067d4e87d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:01:20 - 10:08:20","影片長度":"00:07:00","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:01:20+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T10:08:20+08:00","duration":420,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.527843750000001,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.43409375,"end":53.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.45721875,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.32534375,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.49846875,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.61159375000001,"end":175.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.20596875,"end":214.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.03534375,"end":217.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.12784375,"end":235.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.89284375000003,"end":244.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.88721875000002,"end":249.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.89909375000002,"end":286.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.17596875000004,"end":299.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.84909375,"end":373.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.12534375,"end":341.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.89659375,"end":374.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.20034375,"end":380.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.83221875000004,"end":418.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.00346875,"end":420.97784375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.773,"end":14.257,"text":"我們今天出席的所有的專家學者還有媒體朋友大家好我想今天的公聽會這是一個非常重要的議題因為我們現在臺灣正面臨非常嚴重的少子化的議題這已經是國安層次的議題我們去年我們的新生人口數已經掉到"},{"start":29.665,"end":31.628,"text":"每年只新增13萬5571人相較於10年前2014年每年還有21萬383名的新生兒"},{"start":42.113,"end":46.536,"text":"主族少了9萬人這麼嚴重的一個人口的崩落跟滑落我覺得整個政府體系都要非常嚴肅的看待也就是因為這樣子我覺得我們去打造一個更友善的支持年輕朋友感生然後可以輕鬆養這樣這個環境輕鬆當父母這個是政府沒有辦法迴避的課題所以今天這樣的一個有薪彈性的"},{"start":72.09,"end":79.356,"text":"親職假的增設我覺得非常的有必要而且我已經提出這樣的一個修法版本剛剛幾位專家學者代表講得非常好無論我們是從這個一個父母親子的角色來看待"},{"start":86.584,"end":109.823,"text":"增加有薪的這個親子假非常的有必要孩子的成長需要父母的陪伴所以尤其未來我們面對這麼嚴重的少子化讓父母有更積極的角色參與我覺得這一件事情是政府可以幫父母來達成的事情而且也是應該要做的事情而從整個就業職場來看的話我們勞動力人口的缺少今天勞動部也在這邊"},{"start":116.048,"end":139.298,"text":"我們的女性我們希望提升她的勞參率我們希望女性留在職場我們希望補足我們的人力缺口那我們就要更應該友善的來對待來善待我們這一些廣大的婦女朋友提供她們一個更支持性的更有彈性的這樣的一個政策制度讓她在育兒跟工作之間"},{"start":139.998,"end":149.061,"text":"真的可以達到完全的平衡所以這樣的一個增加有薪的彈性親職假它的必要性其實是非常的重要那剛剛特別提到了德國的模式今年我也到德國去我真的覺得德國的制度是大家可以參考剛剛這個托蒙的發言人講得非常清楚德國這套制度他們其實也是經過了修正"},{"start":165.407,"end":173.818,"text":"很多的法跟我們的制度就是要與時俱進那既然德國已經有一個這麼好的模式在前面告訴大家說他們從這個"},{"start":176.283,"end":176.443,"text":"公聽委員：王育敏"},{"start":202.102,"end":231.175,"text":"他其實強調的是雙照顧也不是特別偏重在女性那我覺得這樣子的一個模式真的非常值得我們臺灣來做參照那今天我讀了這個幾個部會的報告我覺得我們的政府部門也太保守了那如果政府這麼保守我想我們立法院就必須扮演一個改革跟前進的力量過去幾次的修法其實都是立法院跑在前面在立法院裡面"},{"start":232.035,"end":256.151,"text":"看過去的賠產假從無薪到有薪天數從5天到7天就不斷的增加都是由立法院這邊不斷的倡議結合我們民間的專家學者跟團體的力量我們一直推動那我想這一次的這個有薪的彈性的親職假也是我想我們立法院可以扮演一個發動機現在已經有多位委員包括我自己本身"},{"start":256.671,"end":256.871,"text":"王育敏"},{"start":286.391,"end":287.272,"text":"王育敏議員"},{"start":316.591,"end":322.514,"text":"所以剛剛全教總這個侯理事長他講的他們的模式其實走過了其實都是可行的那我覺得這個真的是我們政府要好好的來參照這件事情我們在立法院我本身我會大力的來推動因為我覺得這個就是一個對的方向給父母絕對的支持我想才可以讓他放心的去養育小孩我們也才有立場去鼓勵更多的年輕人說"},{"start":345.043,"end":365.807,"text":"麻煩你結婚麻煩你增產報國麻煩你多生小孩我覺得當政府的支持力到我們沒有做到位的時候我們是沒有資格去呼籲這些年輕人多生小孩的那如果政府也展現了某種的我們的決斷力然後願意去修正我們的法令給足年輕人支持不用你大聲呼籲他覺得說我這個生養環境很好生了小孩其實政府的支撐力倒是很強的他自己自然就會有意願"},{"start":373.849,"end":381.892,"text":"他其實就我們這個少子化的問題其實也可以相對的有效來減緩要不然我真的很擔心去年是13萬多如果政府再不提出一些友善的支持的政策跟方向的話人口再繼續的滑落這個國安問題我想這個是影響整體國家的國力知識體大所以值得我們用更大的力道我們來支持我們這些年輕爸媽養小孩不是他們的事情是政府"},{"start":402.559,"end":403.74,"text":"王育敏委員"}]}},{"id":"156720","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156720","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66781dc8af189ee88e322f3414dbb57b8a8cc92aae6ac6dc3f81b2b7e68c96004cff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:39:17 - 09:43:30","影片長度":"00:04:13","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T09:39:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T09:43:30+08:00","duration":253,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[26],"type":"公聽會","id":"公聽會-2024110656","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"title":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「於性別平等工作法育嬰留職停薪制度中，增訂並併行『有薪彈性親職假』的可行性」公聽會）"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.02971875,"end":11.337218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.691593750000003,"end":12.214718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.602843750000002,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.543468750000002,"end":93.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.85596875,"end":122.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.35784375,"end":250.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.41346875000002,"end":252.97034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.11,"text":"各位專家、學者、一會的官員還有跑朋友們有關這個有薪彈性的育嬰假是本黨柯文哲主席在競選總統時的這個政見雖然他沒有當選總統但是我們黨團還是決定要落實"},{"start":24.612,"end":27.234,"text":"當時他競選的時候的一個政見跟這個承諾所以我們很負責任的提出了有薪彈性的這個育嬰假的這個法案那這項政策法案我覺得對家庭企業跟社會是三贏"},{"start":39.299,"end":68.181,"text":"為什麼呢 首先就是第一個 促進勞工的權益支持養育責任的一個分攤現行的育嬰留職停薪或減薪假雖然是讓雙親能夠有一些照顧的孩子的機會但是因為多數家庭他並沒有辦法承擔或負擔比較長期的一個無薪的一個假期所以很多人往往會在掙扎在工作跟生活之間工作跟生活之間 所以這個"},{"start":68.882,"end":69.463,"text":"公聽委員：陳昭姿公聽委員：陳昭姿"},{"start":92.185,"end":92.225,"text":"陳昭姿議員"},{"start":122.825,"end":148.713,"text":"有增進親職的關係的連結而且有幫助孩子的幸福感跟安全感所以這個對孩子未來的發展是非常正面的那再來就是說提升企業員工的工作效能跟促進勞資雙贏我知道有薪彈性假看來好像是增加企業主的成本但是其實它能夠降低員工的離職率提高士氣增加工作的效能"},{"start":149.073,"end":149.193,"text":"公聽委員．陳昭姿"},{"start":168.968,"end":185.273,"text":"日本達成雙贏這也是為什麼全球企業已經開始補助員工用各種方式成立家庭包括我個人長期推動的代孕法案現在很多的企業包括NVIDIA、Google、Meta、Amazon Express講不完的企業他們都對於這些都是給予全額的一個補助那第四個就是因應少子化的一個國安危機台灣少子化的問題非常嚴重根據美國CIA的資料一戶到2020年年底有227個國家我們是倒數第一名"},{"start":197.757,"end":198.137,"text":"公聽委員：陳昭姿公聽委員：陳昭姿公聽委員：陳昭姿"},{"start":222.265,"end":249.834,"text":"所以我的結論就是說如果我們增加了彈性的有薪的這個親職假其實第一個實踐性別平等這是具體措施提升勞工的權益支持家庭的幸福促進企業的發展還有應對少子化的政策所以我很希望朝野的不分黨派大家共同來支持落實這個政策讓我們台灣成為一個更包容更友善的社會謝謝大家"},{"start":252.544,"end":252.807,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"156856","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156856","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667867c96e9fc63a1a0156f61c8275d0c8f201451ebed58be1a6da6e6bdae5930a855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:52:57 - 12:59:07","影片長度":"00:06:10","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:52:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:59:07+08:00","duration":370,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.09409375,"end":1.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.39784375,"end":3.0515937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.33846875,"end":3.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.9290937500000003,"end":5.2115937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.31221875,"end":25.714718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.00159375,"end":42.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.80909375,"end":47.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.49596875,"end":63.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.710968750000006,"end":50.369093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.93346875,"end":57.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.524093750000006,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.86534375,"end":61.523468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.53596875,"end":68.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.69534375,"end":69.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.38721875,"end":70.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.77534375,"end":74.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.22221875000001,"end":72.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.57221875,"end":92.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.80971875,"end":99.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.55534375,"end":103.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.76159375,"end":104.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.48721875000001,"end":115.84409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.08096875000001,"end":112.53659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.20721875000001,"end":120.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.92346875000001,"end":122.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.23971875000001,"end":128.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.21346875,"end":128.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.09096875,"end":169.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.95659375,"end":152.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.64409375,"end":153.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.99596875,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.03784375,"end":174.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.88971875000001,"end":184.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.69409375,"end":207.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.28221875000003,"end":202.12596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.03659375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.98471875,"end":223.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.43909375,"end":228.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.80534375000002,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.05409375000002,"end":231.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.18034375000002,"end":232.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.97346875000002,"end":238.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.53784375,"end":240.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.93846875000003,"end":241.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.64721875,"end":242.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.11534375000002,"end":244.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.47784375,"end":248.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.36784375000002,"end":262.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.60159375,"end":264.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.52971875000003,"end":268.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.81596875,"end":271.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.30534375,"end":276.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.10159375,"end":277.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.96221875000003,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.19659375000003,"end":295.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.12409375000004,"end":303.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.81096875000003,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.15659375,"end":304.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.96221875000003,"end":307.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.25284375,"end":309.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.36221875,"end":311.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.15096875,"end":314.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.91846875000005,"end":321.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.46596875,"end":326.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.49534375,"end":324.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.77346875,"end":330.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.05096875000004,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.24409375000005,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.63971875000004,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.98909375,"end":349.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.42784375,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.75159375000004,"end":362.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.38346875,"end":365.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.73346875000004,"end":369.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.96534375000005,"end":366.92721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.109,"end":15.561,"text":"好 主席謝謝 麻煩請莊部長好 我們請莊部長是 我要 莊部長我延續啦齁 短問 因為我覺得財政機關稅務機關 其實讓國人相信或是讓國人願意說我誠實納稅繳稅就是因為認為是說財政機關、稅務機關是支柱必較不會多算 不會少算"},{"start":26.089,"end":41.915,"text":"但是這一次的這個抽獎雲端發票的疑雲確實讓國人很嚴重懷疑所以你的報告裡面講說善男計算其中獎率到目前為止還是沒有辦法計算出來是不是"},{"start":42.844,"end":68.423,"text":"跟委員報告由於他那個程式我們拿出來檢視以後他有很...我怎麼講很複雜寫了很多...對對對跟一般認為有那個隨機去抽的那個完全邏輯不太一樣那這樣到底公不公平所以這個部分我們就很誠實的去呈現這樣的對不對那你身為主管機關你現在也不知道說你旗下廠商辦了一個抽獎活動到底公平或不公平"},{"start":68.763,"end":91.496,"text":"所以我們請 這樣的調查報告我們就請調查局去調查我們請調查局去做調查第二個部分 對 來第二個部分 你 兩點嘛第一個是說你還沒有辦法計算其中獎率所以也沒打算算了反正中獎率我算不出來那第二個部分是善待司法調查確認設計的邏輯是不是超越本活動目的的必要範圍"},{"start":92.884,"end":103.013,"text":"所以也交給司法去處理我們身為主管機關發包了這樣的一個案子我們也沒有任何的我們是甲方啊但我們沒有任何的這個控管的機制"},{"start":104.821,"end":128.296,"text":"呃...要檢討我認為這個案子確實要深切的檢討以後再辦相關的活動都不能有這樣的一個情形不管事前、事中、事後都要加強那我請教我們現在的這樣的一個合約這一個活動我們對於乙方有什麼樣的一個要求措施當然要依照合約來執行我想這個台北國稅局會也會在進行這方面的處理嗯"},{"start":129.181,"end":156.384,"text":"是啊不是啊部長現在已經過去了兩個禮拜了我們本來以為欸其實這個議題說實在部長會不會覺得有點無視了塵埃啊照理講我們下個這個預算會期大家在講的是財政部以往也沒有那麼擄主過啊然後結果突然間你在院會也被問院長也被問財政委員會我們也在關心我不是無地放矢啊我也不是吃飽太閒啊真的是因為你們自己拿石頭砸自己的腳"},{"start":157.225,"end":173.75,"text":"而這個檢討報告出來之後又讓國人更加沒有辦法接受就是你已經給你們兩個禮拜了院長在院會信誓旦旦講是說一定會告訴國人結果你們檢討報告出來還是你們不知道中獎機率不知道公不公平不知道反正司法會調查出來"},{"start":175.15,"end":191.416,"text":"我們就行政調查的部分我想在我們報告裡面已經有呈現的已經有呈現的很清楚包含人的部分以及發票取得方式當然我們知道這件事情不應該要發生的也就是說財政部過往所做的許多的活動也好或者是稅務的申報也好讓國人信任是長時間累積下來的但是一件這樣的一個活動讓財政部受損我覺得這是一個非常不應該的一個事情確實是"},{"start":201.36,"end":211.798,"text":"因此對於我們以後再類似的我們一定要深刻檢討不容再發生這樣的一個情形好 那既然這樣的話本席也看到好像8月我們相關的這個"},{"start":215.772,"end":244.372,"text":"雲端眾數去的粉絲專頁同案也有所謂的AI繪圖人氣網比賽那現在本來有講是說要在10月25號終極抽獎記者會然後有獲得超商的一個禮券但是這個粉專又公佈說AI人氣網比賽得獎名單暫緩公佈我想請教那現在會不會一波未評一波又起"},{"start":245.766,"end":262.643,"text":"這個是另外一個是一樣的粉絲專頁啊這個粉絲專頁是雲端眾數據一起集點數在11月7號的時候又發布就說同案的AI人氣網比賽得獎名單要等待調查結果確認無誤才另行辦理公告"},{"start":263.789,"end":275.429,"text":"跟委員報告所以下面網友講習有國防部、金有財政部啊那部是那個遮掩的部啊等於是把我們財政部跟以前國防部這樣子給類比啊部長"},{"start":278.401,"end":300.361,"text":"我想這個事情台北國稅局可能在做這個的時候想得也不周延然後造成一些誤解也就是說您剛剛講了一波微評一波又起然後我們已經先開記者會先做一個說明是告訴大家我們其他的活動其實都是按照誠信公開公開原則我覺得這個部分都要深切檢討整個活動這件事情都要去做"},{"start":303.403,"end":329.741,"text":"為什麼又延後了呢?如果說你們已經開記者會已經公告了你們已經有調查、有了解、有介入結果到現在還又要延後11月7號的時候又說要再延後得獎名單等等的部分那難道不會讓大家外界更質疑嗎?是,這個部分要檢討你這樣沒有直寫部長你除了持續跳針說檢討以外我覺得現在財政部沒有直寫"},{"start":331.281,"end":355.665,"text":"每說一句或每公開一句就是讓國人如果越來越不相信我覺得這不是國家之福我知道 我知道委員是一個深切的一個期許我覺得這個部分國稅局在做這個部分確實有點不夠周延我們已經跟大家講了作指證是 是好 如果 趙薇如果說這書面報告來還是一樣沒有答案的報告也不要浪費紙了啦"},{"start":357.063,"end":368.481,"text":"因為這一個活動一開始叫做雲端種樹其實就是要節省職場我覺得這很痛心是我知道同樣的我也一樣是好 謝謝孟凱偉議員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1479,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時53分）好，主席謝謝，麻煩請莊部長。"],["主席：好，請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：莊部長，我延續羅委員的問題，我覺得財政機關、稅務機關，其實讓國人相信或是讓國人願意說我誠實納稅、繳稅，就是因為認為財政機關、稅務機關是錙銖必較，不會多算、不會少算，但是這一次抽獎雲端發票的疑雲，確實讓國人很嚴重懷疑，你的報告裡面講尚難計算其中獎率，到目前為止還是沒有辦法計算出來，是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，由於那個程式我們拿出來檢視以後，它有……我怎麼講，他們去看，寫很多……"],["洪委員孟楷：很複雜？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，跟一般認為隨機去抽的那個完全邏輯不太一樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：這樣到底公不公平？"],["莊部長翠雲：所以這個部分，我們就很誠實的去呈現這樣，對不對？但是……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，但是你身為主管機關，你現在也不知道你旗下廠商辦了一個抽獎活動到底公平或不公平，所以我們這樣的調查報告……"],["莊部長翠雲：所以我們就請調查局去調查。"],["洪委員孟楷：第一個是你還沒有辦法計算其中獎率，所以也沒打算算了，反正中獎率我算不出來。第二個部分是尚待司法調查確認設計的邏輯是不是超越本活動目的的必要範圍，所以也交給司法去處理，我們身為主管機關發包了這樣的一個案子，我們是甲方啊！但我們沒有任何控管的機制？"],["莊部長翠雲：要檢討，我認為這個案子確實要深切的檢討，以後再辦相關的活動都不能有這樣的情形，不管事前、事中、事後都要加強檢核。"],["洪委員孟楷：我請教我們現在的這樣的合約，針對這一個活動，我們對於乙方有什麼樣的要求措施。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然要依照合約來執行，我想臺北國稅局也會再進行這方面的處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是啊！部長，已經過去兩個禮拜了，說實在，部長會不會覺得有點無事惹塵埃？照理講我們這個預算會期，大家在講的是財政部，以往也沒有那麼爐主過啊！然後結果突然間你在院會也被問，院長也被問，財政委員會我們也在關心，我不是無的放矢啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：我也不是吃飽太閒啊！真的是因為你們自己拿石頭砸自己的腳，而這個檢討報告出來之後，又讓國人更加沒有辦法接受，就是已經給你們兩個禮拜了，院長在院會信誓旦旦講一定會告訴國人，結果你們的檢討報告出來，還是你們不知道，中獎機率不知道，公不公平不知道，反正司法會調查出來。"],["莊部長翠雲：就行政調查的部分，我想在我們報告裡面已經有呈現得很清楚，包含人的部分以及發票取得方式，當然我們知道這件事情不應該要發生的，也就是財政部過往所做了許多的活動也好，或者是稅務的申報也好，讓國人信任是長時間累積下來的，但是一件這樣的活動讓財政部受損，我覺得這是非常不應該的事情，確實是。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：因此對於以後類似的活動，我們一定要深刻檢討，不容再發生這樣的一個情形。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，既然這樣的話，本席也看到好像8月相關的雲端種樹趣這樣的粉絲專頁，然後同案也有所謂的AI繪圖人氣王比賽，本來有講要在10月25日終極抽獎記者會，然後可以獲得超商的禮券，但是這個粉專又公布AI人氣王比賽得獎名單暫緩公布，我想請教現在會不會一波未平一波又起？"],["莊部長翠雲：這是另外一個，我想這個純粹……"],["洪委員孟楷：一樣的粉絲專頁啊！這個粉絲專頁叫做雲端種樹趣e起集點樹，在11月7日的時候又發布，就說同案的AI人氣王比賽得獎名單要等待調查結果確認無誤，才另行辦理公告。"],["吳局長蓮英：跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以下面網友講：「昔有國防布、今有財政布」。"],["吳局長蓮英：這個我們是有誤解。"],["洪委員孟楷：布是那個遮掩的布啊！等於是把我們財政部跟以前國防部這樣子給類比，部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道，我想這個事情，臺北國稅局可能在做這個時候想的也不周延，然後造成一些誤解，也就是您剛剛講的一波未平一波又起。我們已經先開記者會做一個說明，是告訴大家我們其他的活動其實都是按照誠信公開原則，我覺得這個部分都要深切檢討，整個活動這件事情都要去做。"],["洪委員孟楷：為什麼又延後了呢？如果你們已經開記者會，已經公告了，你們已經有調查、有了解、有介入，結果到現在又要延後，11月7日又說要再延後得獎名單等等的部分，難道不會讓外界更質疑嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，這個部分要檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：你這樣沒有止血。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["主席：部長，你是……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你除了持續跳針說檢討以外，我覺得現在財政部沒有止血，你每說一句或每公開一句，如果讓國人越來越不相信，我覺得這不是國家之福。"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道，委員是一個深切的期許，我覺得國稅局在做這個部分確實有點不夠周延，我們已經跟大家講及做指正的事。"],["主席：好，謝謝，謝謝洪孟楷委員。部長，是不是會後提供書面報告給洪孟楷委員？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，好。"],["洪委員孟楷：召委，如果書面報告送來還是一樣沒有答案的報告，也不要浪費紙了，因為這個活動一開始叫做雲端種樹，其實就是要節省紙張，我覺得這很痛心啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我知道。委員，同樣的，我也一樣。"],["主席：好，謝謝孟楷委員。","林倩綺、林倩綺，林倩綺委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純，何欣純委員不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","蔡易餘、蔡易餘，蔡易餘委員不在。","吳思瑤、吳思瑤，吳思瑤委員不在。","接著請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156854","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156854","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678c49282e03ec6eb5d56f61c8275d0c8f2a9224958d423892c3fb8e3d700d2a5af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"13:08:28 - 13:13:26","影片長度":"00:04:58","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T13:08:28+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:13:26+08:00","duration":298,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":3.0853437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.60846875,"end":5.0934687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.34596875,"end":36.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.05471875,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.03534375000001,"end":130.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.77346875,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.05346875,"end":207.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.96471875,"end":255.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.24846875000003,"end":264.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.29346875000005,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.31659375000004,"end":278.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.33346875,"end":279.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.49784375,"end":279.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.71721875000003,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.03784375000004,"end":280.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.72971875,"end":280.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.33284375,"end":282.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.38346875,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.50159375000004,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.69534375,"end":285.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.39971875000003,"end":286.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.45034375,"end":293.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.44909375000003,"end":294.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.76096875,"end":298.76909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":1.656,"text":"好 謝謝主席 委員會準時4分鐘 有請財政部長好 我們請莊部長"},{"start":9.383,"end":36.336,"text":"委員好部長我要先恭喜財政部跟我們宮古航庫還有台灣燕酒公司為什麼呢因為你們在今年體育署的體育推手獎當中我們又達到了幾乎是全壘打成績我覺得這真的是國家帶頭示範貫徹企業社會責任的最好示範我要先恭喜財政部但是呢部長有一件事情你應該有印象我跟你講了非常非常非常非常非常多次都是跟您直接"},{"start":37.336,"end":54.187,"text":"陳琴就是我們的球員被拒絕加保勞保我之前跟您說過體育署跟我們的資料裡面呢何褲、台皮、張穎的體育運動團隊針對非正職選手依然還是以要求簽委任合約的名義請選手"},{"start":55.848,"end":78.663,"text":"自己去找職業工會加保你有沒有覺得聽起來怪怪的我們來看下一頁之前我也跟您分享過我們去問過勞動部部長部長說這沒有法律的問題只有意願的問題我知道您的幕僚會跟您說怕加保了之後他就變成正式員工啊可是他就不是正式員工那部長我跟您分享相關的案例人家怎麼做的我們來看下一頁"},{"start":80.083,"end":95.693,"text":"同樣在我們郭志輝部長企業球隊他們有加保而且是兼職的員工中華電信約聘球員有沒有加保有民間企業在彰化伯利利蘭球隊伯利利蘭球隊裡面也有加保Loyal內部長好"},{"start":96.633,"end":117.815,"text":"那可是難道是我們這些民間企業太不聰明或是我們中華電信太不聰明了嗎他們不懂得叫選手自己去外面簽所以但是你們財政部我剛剛講的卻可以一再的放任我覺得這樣對於選手對於相關的勞動權益真的非常的不尊重更何況賴清德總統即將要讓我們行政院成立"},{"start":118.796,"end":143.872,"text":"運動部那我們是這樣對待所謂這些運動選手的嗎我看你的目牙在跟你搖手我還是覺得聽起來我怕等一下聽到很可怕的訊息這樣這是第一個問題第二個問題我想要問喔公股銀行對於運動團隊跟單項協會有贊助我們來看一下這是你們給我們的資料你們今年在1、2年度捐贈給中華民國足球協會這個非常多惡行惡狀有非常多新聞的協會例如說"},{"start":145.654,"end":158.292,"text":"像女足球員道歉、作廢合約因為他們簽了不當的合約或者是在比賽的時候或是相關的欠薪有非常非常多爭議的足協你們在1、1、2年度透過捐贈的名義給了將近500萬的捐贈"},{"start":163.016,"end":178.694,"text":"宮古銀行可以這樣對待一個缺乏民主性、充滿性別歧視而且行政失能、怠惰的單項運動協會有這樣的捐贈金額跟捐贈機制嗎?部長我相信你一定不知道原來你們做了這些事情"},{"start":180.103,"end":206.151,"text":"我們在交流化委員會或者在很多總質詢有非常多的委員都關注單項協會各項的監督但是我們看到這邊你們給我們的資料你們有這麼多的捐助我時間有限一分鐘以內我有兩個訴求來下一頁第一個訴求針對財政部所轄球隊至今依然拒絕為約聘球員加保勞保的問題我今天應該已經是來問第4次還是第5次了請部長再次跟相關單位溝通"},{"start":208.052,"end":213.979,"text":"我必須要說善良是一種選擇對選手的保障也是但如果財政部相關我剛剛說的這些團隊繼續選擇不願意為球員加保那我們真的覺得我們很難對選手有所交代再來財政部在相關公股"},{"start":223.21,"end":231.197,"text":"韓酷跟國公營事業針對運動團隊或是單項運動協會的贊助我們沒有說不能贊助但是請你們訂定相關的評估標準並且公開相關的討論記錄對於明確有抵觸政府的基本價值的單項協會在相關單位沒有具體改善之前我認為政府不應該再贊助這些協會成為加害選手的幫兇"},{"start":249.574,"end":278.46,"text":"以上兩個訴求非常明確請財政部一個院提出改善報告請問可以嗎好的我對於委員這樣的一個建議我們再進一步的一個了解以及可以有具體作為的部分跟委員提出書面報告部長您的專業是來自財政我相信我剛剛講這些運動的問題你的幕僚可能沒有第一時間讓你知道我們辦公室不利於提供資料也請財政部積極跟我們辦公室約會議我們會把資料提供給部長因為部長你可能真的不知道到底發生了什麼事情"},{"start":279.02,"end":280.101,"text":"賴慧琪、賴慧琪、賴慧琪、賴慧琪"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1605,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（13時8分）謝謝主席，我一定會準時，4分鐘，有請財政部部長。"],["主席：我們請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，我要先恭喜財政部跟我們公股行庫，還有臺灣菸酒公司，為什麼呢？因為你們在今年體育署的體育推手獎當中，我們又達到幾乎是全壘打的成績，我覺得這真的是國家帶頭示範，貫徹企業社會責任的最好示範，我要先恭喜財政部。但是部長，有一件事情你應該有印象，我跟你講了非常、非常、非常多次，都是跟您直接陳情，就是我們的球員被拒絕加保勞保，我之前跟您說過，在體育署給我們的資料裡面，合庫、台啤、彰銀的體育運動團隊，針對非正職選手，依然還是以要求簽委任合約的名義，請選手自己去找職業工會加保，你有沒有覺得聽起來怪怪的？","之前我也跟您分享過，我們去問過勞動部部長，部長說這沒有法律的問題，只有意願的問題，我知道您的幕僚會跟你說，怕加保了之後，他就變成正式員工，可是他就不是正式員工，部長，我跟你分享相關的案例，人家怎麼做的，在我們郭智輝部長企業球隊，他們有加保，而且是兼職的員工，中華電信約聘球員有沒有加保？有！民間企業在彰化柏力力籃球隊裡面也有加保，都有欸！部長。難道是我們這些民間企業太不聰明，或是我們中華電信太不聰明了嗎？他們不懂得叫選手自己去外面簽，但是你們財政部，我剛剛講的，卻可以一再地放任，我覺得這樣對於選手、對於相關的勞動權益真的非常不尊重，更何況賴清德總統即將要讓我們行政院成立運動部，我們是這樣對待這些運動選手的嗎？我看你的幕僚在跟你搖手，我還是覺得聽起來……我怕等一下聽到很可怕的訊息，這是第一個問題。第二個問題我想要問，公股銀行對於運動團隊跟單項協會有贊助，我們來看一下，這是你們給我們的資料，你們在112年度捐贈給中華民國足球協會──這個非常多惡行惡狀，有非常多新聞的協會，例如說，向女足球員道歉作廢合約，因為他們簽了不當的合約，或者是在比賽的時候，還有相關的欠薪，有非常非常多爭議的足協，你們在112年度透過捐贈的名義給了將近500萬的捐贈，公股銀行可以這樣對待一個缺乏民主性，充滿了性別歧視，而且行政失能怠惰的單項運動協會？有這樣的捐贈金額跟捐贈機制嗎？部長，我相信你一定不知道原來你們做了這些事情。我們在教育及文化委員會，或者在很多總質詢有非常多的委員都關注單項協會各項的監督，但是我們看到這邊你們給我們的資料，你們有這麼多的捐助。","我時間有限，1分鐘以內我有兩個訴求，第一個訴求，針對財政部所轄球隊至今依然拒絕為約聘球員加保勞保的問題，我今天應該已經是來問第四次，還是第五次了，請部長再次跟相關單位溝通。我必須要說，善良是一種選擇，對選手的保障也是，但如果財政部相關，我剛剛說的這些團隊繼續選擇不願意為球員加保，那我真的覺得我們很難對選手有所交代。再來，財政部在相關公股行庫跟國公營事業，針對運動團隊或是單項運動協會的贊助，我們沒有說不能贊助，但是請你們訂定相關的評估標準，並且公開相關的討論紀錄，對於明確有牴觸政府基本價值的單項協會在相關單位沒有具體改善之前，我認為政府不應該再贊助這些協會，成為加害選手的幫兇；以上兩個訴求非常明確，請財政部一個月提出改善報告，請問可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：好的，我對於委員這樣一個建議，我們再進一步了解以及可以有具體作為的部分，跟委員提出書面報告。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，部長，您的專業是來自財政，我相信我剛剛講這些運動的問題，你的幕僚可能沒有第一時間讓你知道，我們辦公室不吝於提供資料，也請財政部積極跟我們辦公室約會議，我們會把資料提供給部長，因為部長你可能真的不知道到底發生了什麼事情，但我非常謝謝部長……"],["莊部長翠雲：好的，我們會去委員辦公室請教。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，部長剛剛非常正向的回應，謝謝，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["主席：部長，要正視這一個問題，這個問題事實上是非常重要的。謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝主席。"],["主席：今日登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢，現在進行討論事項第一案，含修正動議1案及臨時提案1案的處理。預計宣讀時間是12分鐘，宣讀完畢以後我們即進行協商，請議事人員開始宣讀，與法案無關的官員可以先行離開，回辦公室辦公，謝謝。議事人員宣讀。","一、臨時提案：","案由：報載財政部財政資訊中心今年多次因設備異常，致稅務服務中斷，經中心說明為設備老舊導致，然經查財政部於近年已提出多項稅務系統及資料中心設置擴充計畫，如「財政部資料中心設置計畫」、「稅務便民服務及資源整合計畫」、「智能稅務服務計畫」、「財政部共用資料中心資源擴充計畫」等以充實設備，卻仍出現設備老舊導致斷網一事。","有鑑於稅務系統與民眾息息相關，且為24小時無間斷服務，財政資訊中心應留意設備維護及缺失改善方案，於四個月內向財政委員會提出書面報告。","提案人：吳秉叡　　伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe　　　　賴惠員　　郭國文　　李坤城","INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_01.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT","INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_03.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_04.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_05.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_06.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_07.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_08.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_09.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_10.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_11.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_12.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_13.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_14.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_15.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_16.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_17.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_18.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_19.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_20.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_21.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_22.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_23.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_24.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_25.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_26.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_27.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_28.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT \n            \n\n INCLUDEPICTURE \"../../../../../../Users/user/Desktop/001/財政%20貨物稅條例第十二條_頁面_29.jpg\" \\* MERGEFORMAT","三、修正動議："]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156853","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156853","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667804139e74b2b6945c56f61c8275d0c8f2a9224958d423892c5ffaa6d71c87aaa95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"13:00:22 - 13:08:17","影片長度":"00:07:55","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T13:00:22+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:08:17+08:00","duration":475,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.79409375,"end":4.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.67534375,"end":12.872843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.78409375,"end":16.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.074718750000002,"end":17.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.78346875,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.770343750000002,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.034718750000003,"end":30.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.148468750000003,"end":32.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.10596875,"end":43.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.502218750000004,"end":36.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.24034375,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.69909375,"end":48.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.96846875,"end":52.596593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.322218750000005,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.03096875,"end":55.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.49909375,"end":60.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.32534375,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.797843750000006,"end":63.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.12221875,"end":64.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.81409375,"end":67.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.00284375000001,"end":74.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.88846875,"end":76.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.40284375,"end":78.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.26346875,"end":85.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.95846875000001,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":89.68784375,"end":90.98721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.24471875,"end":90.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.71721875,"end":90.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.98721875000001,"end":92.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.91096875000001,"end":95.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.64471875000001,"end":96.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.36596875000001,"end":98.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.96909375,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.36971875,"end":102.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.37784375000001,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.83284375000001,"end":109.38096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":109.95471875000001,"end":110.15721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.15721875000001,"end":110.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.25846875,"end":110.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.68034375,"end":112.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.14409375000001,"end":116.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.97471875000001,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.07159375,"end":123.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.19284375000001,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.23034375,"end":129.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.58846875,"end":135.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.29659375,"end":137.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.44409375,"end":137.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.42284375,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.43971875,"end":142.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.54034375,"end":145.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.02909375000002,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.10471875000002,"end":151.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.56846875000002,"end":152.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.14221875,"end":152.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.42471875,"end":153.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.44159375,"end":154.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.65221875,"end":156.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.23846875,"end":158.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.67284375,"end":160.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.95096875000002,"end":162.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.17409375,"end":166.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.44784375,"end":169.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.26596875,"end":172.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.59034375000002,"end":178.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.37909375,"end":176.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.91471875000002,"end":180.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.69846875000002,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.76159375,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.86284375000002,"end":184.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.28471875000002,"end":186.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.78659375,"end":186.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.83721875,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.02284375000002,"end":187.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.59659375,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.08971875,"end":193.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.89534375000002,"end":197.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.98784375000002,"end":196.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.02971875,"end":198.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.75096875000003,"end":199.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.22346875000002,"end":199.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.24034375000002,"end":202.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.03721875000002,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.15534375000001,"end":204.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.85534375,"end":207.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.11659375000002,"end":209.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.82096875000002,"end":211.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.77409375000002,"end":213.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.51659375000003,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.54159375,"end":216.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.51596875,"end":219.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.43971875000003,"end":220.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.51534375000003,"end":222.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.86534375000002,"end":223.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.62034375000002,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.48096875000002,"end":226.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.72971875000002,"end":228.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.49721875,"end":232.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.24346875,"end":234.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.21784375000001,"end":237.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.39034375000003,"end":240.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.78659375,"end":244.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.20784375000002,"end":246.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.58721875,"end":249.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.23659375000003,"end":252.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.82659375000003,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.13409375000003,"end":259.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.51346875,"end":262.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.75784375,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.35659375,"end":267.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.15784375000004,"end":274.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.94159375000004,"end":277.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.96221875000003,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.02971875000003,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.97471875,"end":279.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.00409375000004,"end":281.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.38346875,"end":286.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.20971875000004,"end":288.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.74534375,"end":290.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.48346875000004,"end":293.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.00596875,"end":300.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.72659375,"end":300.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.97971875,"end":307.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.57409375000003,"end":305.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.86909375000005,"end":310.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.09221875000003,"end":312.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.07909375,"end":318.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.14221875000004,"end":315.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.17534375,"end":323.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.50784375,"end":325.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.35971875,"end":327.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.14846875,"end":337.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.96971875,"end":339.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.70784375,"end":341.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.13346875,"end":344.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.70284375,"end":347.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.85846875000004,"end":352.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.17409375,"end":358.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.97909375,"end":362.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.21471875000003,"end":364.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.28596875000005,"end":368.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.82971875000004,"end":371.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.02346875,"end":373.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.46596875,"end":376.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.73971875,"end":381.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.38471875000005,"end":384.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.93284375,"end":386.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.54409375,"end":389.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.24846875000003,"end":393.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.48846875000004,"end":395.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.90159375,"end":397.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.24721875,"end":403.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.48721875,"end":401.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.95471875000004,"end":409.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.25784375,"end":415.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.57346875,"end":422.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.32784375,"end":424.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.82534375,"end":427.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.35659375,"end":429.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.19596875,"end":431.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.65971875,"end":435.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.84471875,"end":438.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.74721875,"end":440.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.19409375000004,"end":442.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.67471875,"end":445.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.80096875000004,"end":447.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.11284375,"end":450.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.91409375,"end":455.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.53784375000004,"end":461.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.69721875000005,"end":462.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.23284375000003,"end":463.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.24971875000006,"end":463.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.28346875000005,"end":464.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.70534375000005,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.31596875,"end":475.55159375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.569,"end":18.561,"text":"請那個核庫董事長核庫董事長那個台灣軍聯本來核庫派去的法派是施俊錡嗎?是那後來換成了一位呂先生嗎?是那這個是誰讓你換的?"},{"start":20.954,"end":43.175,"text":"報告委員因為這個是公股事業機構裡面的聯繫事項那國庫署有跟我們通知那所以齁上面有很多董事長來每一家銀行幾乎都有法派到這個台灣接連去嘛所以你們法派到底是誰去當董事這件事情是由財政部直接指揮對不對"},{"start":46.176,"end":67.531,"text":"董事長的核定權是在行政院那董事的法派是銀行這裡所以我就具體的問你嘛核庫把施俊錡換下來施俊錡本來是你們核庫的法派嘛是財政部通知你把它換下來的是嗎國庫署國庫署你通知你換下來的時候有給理由嗎"},{"start":72.022,"end":96.513,"text":"有告訴你說為什麼要把他換下來嗎那個請董事長回答國務署告訴我們的時候他是沒有具名理由因為他沒有具名理由因為按照公股事業管理的部分如果說超過68歲的時候是應該應該是來我們來看一下齁我們國家的制度啊我老實講有一點畸形啊"},{"start":97.458,"end":123.61,"text":"法人董事這個制度本身在公司法裡面有很多討論但我們尊重既有的制度就按照既有的制度來談這個法人董事是你們合庫派的嗎是好來請教一下合庫針對台灣今年這幾年營運的表現合庫作為派出法人董事你派出的法人董事容認董事長覺得他的績效如何"},{"start":125.213,"end":151.916,"text":"他的部分我們每一年都有進行考核那你覺得他的績效如何阿如果是按照他這幾年的績效是維持相對的穩定他的EPS阿看起來啦我老實講我也有去看你們核庫的EPS啦你們核庫的EPS也沒有比人家高多少啦我說的沒有錯吧沒有錯我們一年大概一點多對啊"},{"start":153.836,"end":174.762,"text":"這樣子的績效表現還無預警被判下來換一位訓理的先生來我請教一下部長台灣今年歷任的董事長有哪一位是沒有財經背景的歷任的董事長當然有好幾位是有哪幾位沒有財經背景的說給大家聽"},{"start":184.237,"end":211.458,"text":"財經背景沒有財經背景的因為我大概就知道是最近的幾位嘛最近的幾位都沒有財經背景喔應該是有吧應該是有喔來來來我給您看啊我把台灣今年歷任的董事長啊您不用背啊我全部都把它列在上面啊我全部都把它列在上面啊歷任的董事長沒有財經背景的兩位"},{"start":212.81,"end":233.512,"text":"一位林美珠一位林美珠我們前總統的親戚當過勞動部部長部長你知不知道他幹了幾天下台一天吧一天嘛現在這位李先生是第二位啊李先生是第二位為什麼我把他全部列出來台灣經典欸"},{"start":235.316,"end":263.083,"text":"是我們每一個銀行要派法人董事耶接受財政部的命令啊共同撐起來的一家公司啊給他當董事長只要有政治酬庸下場就像今天這個樣子讓所有的國人看得瞠目結舌啊國醫師院拿來當酬庸已經讓人沒有辦法接受了結果竟然當兒戲啊竟然當兒戲啊"},{"start":265.47,"end":293.468,"text":"上任以後三天就辭職所以台灣今年的董事長看起來不是很重要嗎台灣今年的董事長這個位置重要嗎部長每一家公司的董事長當然都是重要的如果重要的話幹了三天就辭職了我想他的辭職書的內容大家他也都有說明了是呂戰章啊他政治上面的背景之前記者會都講過我就不多說了啦"},{"start":295.046,"end":312.097,"text":"他的任命恐怕也不是部長你可以決定的吧是誰決定要用呂政章的部長是您決定的嗎這個人事案的核定是在 權責是在行政院是在行政院嗎核定權是在行政院所以這個人是你提上去的還是行政院交辦下來的當然這邊是由我們財政部簽辦的"},{"start":313.123,"end":341.203,"text":"是你簽辦上去的嘛那你跟大家解釋一下你當初為什麼會簽呂政章上去我們想對這個部分對他個人的相關的經濟力我們都有所了解是所以你了解而已會就提一個沒有財經背景的之前沒有辦法幹農業金庫的董作可以幹台灣金聯的董作所以我才請教你嘛台灣金聯的董作這個位置重不重要嘛如果重要的話我們的財政部啊把它當兒戲喔"},{"start":343.314,"end":364.011,"text":"我們是沒有把他當兒戲的如果沒有把他當兒戲的話幹了三天就下來部長會不會覺得很遺憾他不應該辭應該繼續幹下去我想他個人在辭職的理由在說明書裡面都有說到了我們尊重他個人對啊你找了一個人只幹了三天就不幹了你不會覺得很丟臉嗎你們當初在選這個人的時候有慎重嗎"},{"start":369.875,"end":397.17,"text":"你說是你簽上去的嘛簽了幹了三天就下台財政部都不用負責今天你如果說是卓榮泰決定的那卓榮泰負責嘛但你剛剛說什麼是你簽上去的啊所以我才請教你人怎麼選的嘛你人怎麼選的幹了三天以後就下台部長你有沒有什麼話想說你從這件事情裡面你有沒有得到任何的教訓"},{"start":398.511,"end":426.824,"text":"還是這一次人事的作業財政部的作業完備、完整、專業他幹三天就下台是我們國家的損失部長你從這一次的事件當中到底得到了什麼教訓、學到了什麼我想委員您說的也很清楚當然我們在用人上是要謹慎沒有錯好再一次一個主席站起來了現在他辭職以後這個位置懸缺嘛"},{"start":427.626,"end":449.94,"text":"目前是由總經理代理是是是那我會一直代理下去嗎當然這個部分我們會另外做考量對我只講一件事啦我希望喔這次重新任命的時候財政部簽出來的人是要真的有專業讓社會幸福的人不要用政治酬庸的方式啦"},{"start":450.973,"end":475.069,"text":"找一個莫名其妙的人上去啊到時候社會大反彈啊我希望這一次財政部的人事作業啊真的要慎重啊不要犯一樣的錯誤 可以嗎是的 謝謝委員好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員接著我們請張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在胡坤祺、胡坤祺、胡坤祺委員不在接著我們請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1522,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時59分）謝謝主席，第一位是不是可以麻煩有請財政部莊部長？"],["主席：財政部莊部長。"],["黃委員國昌：然後第二位土銀何董事長。"],["主席：好，土銀董事長。"],["黃委員國昌：第三位第一金控邱董事長。"],["主席：好，第一金控邱董事長。"],["黃委員國昌：第四位合作金庫林董事長。"],["主席：好，合作金庫。"],["黃委員國昌：然後是臺灣中小企銀劉董事長。"],["主席：好，臺灣中小企銀劉董事長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長、各位董事長，因為時間的關係就不一一問候。首先請合庫董事長，本來合庫派去台灣金聯的法派是施俊吉。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：後來換成一位呂先生。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：這是誰要你換的？"],["林董事長衍茂：報告委員，因為這個是公股事業機構裡面的聯繫事項，國庫署有跟我們通知。"],["黃委員國昌：上面有很多董事長來，每家銀行幾乎都有法派到台灣金聯去。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你們法派到底是誰去當董事這件事情是由財政部直接指揮，對不對？"],["林董事長衍茂：董事長的核定權是在行政院，董事的法派是銀行這裡。"],["黃委員國昌：所以我就具體的問你，合庫把施俊吉換下來，施俊吉本來是你們合庫的法派嘛。"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：是財政部通知你把他換下來的，是嗎？"],["林董事長衍茂：國庫署。"],["黃委員國昌：好，國庫署通知你換下來的時候有給理由嗎？有告訴你為什麼要把他換下來嗎？請董事長回答。"],["林董事長衍茂：國庫署告訴我們的時候是沒有敘明理由。"],["黃委員國昌：他沒有敘明理由？"],["林董事長衍茂：因為按照公股事業管理的部分，如果說超過68歲的時候，應該是……"],["黃委員國昌：我們來看一下，老實講，我們國家的制度有一點畸形，法人董事這個制度本身在公司法裡面有很多討論，但我們尊重既有的制度，就按照既有的制度來談，這個法人董事是你們合庫派的嗎？"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請教一下合庫，針對台灣金聯這幾年的營運表現，合庫作為派出法人董事，派出的法人董事榮任董事長，你覺得他的績效如何？"],["林董事長衍茂：他的部分我們每一年都有進行考核。"],["黃委員國昌：你覺得他的績效如何？"],["林董事長衍茂：如果是按照他這幾年的績效來看是維持相對的穩定。"],["黃委員國昌：它的EPS看起來，老實講我有去看你們合庫的EPS，你們合庫的EPS也沒有比人家高多少，我說的沒有錯吧！"],["林董事長衍茂：沒有錯，我們一年大概一點多。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！這樣子的績效表現，毫無預警被換下來，換一位姓呂的先生。我請教一下部長，台灣金聯歷任的董事長有哪一位是沒有財金背景的？"],["莊部長翠雲：歷任的董事長當然有好幾位。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是、是，有哪幾位沒有財金背景，請說給大家聽。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有財金背景……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有財金背景的。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為我大概知道的是最近的幾位。"],["黃委員國昌：最近的幾位都沒有財金背景？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是有吧！"],["黃委員國昌：應該是有？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是有。"],["黃委員國昌：來、來、來，我給您看，您不用背，我把台灣金聯歷任的董事長全部都列在上面，我全部都把他列在上面，歷任董事長沒有財金背景的有兩位，一位是林美珠，我們前總統的親戚，當過勞動部部長，部長，你知不知道他幹了幾天下臺？"],["莊部長翠雲：1天吧。"],["黃委員國昌：1天嘛，現在這位呂先生是第二位，為什麼我把他們全部列出來？台灣金聯是我們每一個銀行要派法人董事，接受財政部的命令，共同撐起來的一家公司，給他當董事長，只要有政治酬庸，下場就像今天這個樣子，讓所有國人看得瞠目結舌，國營事業拿來當酬庸已經讓人沒有辦法接受了，結果竟然當兒戲！竟然當兒戲！上任以後3天就辭職，所以台灣金聯的董事長看起來不是很重要嘛，台灣金聯的董事長這個位置重要嗎？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：每一家公司的董事長當然都是重要的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果重要的話，幹了3天就辭職耶。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想他的辭職書的內容，他也都有說明了。"],["黃委員國昌：呂政璋他政治上面的背景，之前記者會都講過，我就不多說了，他的任命恐怕也不是部長你可以決定的，是誰決定要用呂政璋的？部長，是您決定的嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個人事案的核定權責是在行政院。"],["黃委員國昌：是在行政院嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：核定權是在行政院。"],["黃委員國昌：所以這個人是你提上去的，還是行政院交辦下來的？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然是由我們財政部簽辦的。"],["黃委員國昌：是你簽辦上去的嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員國昌：你跟大家解釋一下當初為什麼會簽呂政璋上去？"],["莊部長翠雲：對這個部分，對他個人相關的經資歷，我們都有所了解。"],["黃委員國昌：是，所以你了解以後就提一個沒有財金背景的，之前沒有辦法幹農業金庫的董座，可以幹台灣金聯的董座？所以我才請教你，台灣金聯的董座這個位置重不重要？如果重要的話，我們的財政部把它當兒戲喔。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們是沒有把它當兒戲的。"],["黃委員國昌：如果沒有把它當兒戲的話，幹了3天就下來欸，部長，你會不會覺得很遺憾，他不應該辭，應該繼續幹下去？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想他個人辭職的理由在說明書裡面都有說到了，我們尊重他個人。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！你找了一個人，只幹了3天就不幹了，你不會覺得很丟臉嗎？你們當初在選這個人的時候有慎重嗎？你說是你簽上去的嘛，簽了一個幹了3天就下臺，財政部都不用負責？今天你如果說是卓榮泰決定的，那卓榮泰負責嘛，但你剛剛說什麼？是你簽上去的啊！所以我才請教你人怎麼選的嘛，你人怎麼選的？幹了3天以後就下臺，部長，你有沒有什麼話想說？你從這件事情裡面有沒有得到任何教訓？還是這次人事的作業、財政部的作業完備、完整、專業？他幹3天就下臺是我們國家的損失，部長，你從這次事件當中到底得到了什麼教訓、學到了什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想委員您說得也很清楚，當然我們在用人上是要謹慎，沒有錯。"],["黃委員國昌：好，因為主席站起來了，現在他辭職以後，這個位置懸缺嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：目前是由總經理代理。"],["黃委員國昌：是、是、是，那會一直代理下去嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然這個部分我們會另外做考量。"],["黃委員國昌：我只講一件事啦，我希望這次重新任命的時候，財政部簽出來的人是要真的有專業，讓社會信服的人，不要用政治酬庸的方式，找了一個莫名其妙的人上去，到時候社會大反彈，我希望這次財政部的人事作業真的要慎重，不要犯一樣的錯誤，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。接著我們請張智倫、張智倫、張智倫委員不在。","傅崐萁、傅崐萁、傅崐萁委員不在。","接著我們請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156851","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156851","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678286e010a0f25724975ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892ce27a470d39c62d065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:46:49 - 12:55:09","影片長度":"00:08:20","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:46:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:55:09+08:00","duration":500,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.0559687500000003,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.06846875,"end":3.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.1697187500000004,"end":3.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.03034375,"end":5.0934687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.072218750000001,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.287218750000001,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.548468750000001,"end":9.599093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.700343750000002,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.172843750000002,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.290968750000001,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.30346875,"end":11.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.45534375,"end":11.505968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.52284375,"end":12.062843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.404093750000001,"end":16.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.88909375,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.68159375,"end":22.829093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.14971875,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.11284375,"end":43.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.62221875,"end":83.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.110343750000006,"end":61.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.91284375000001,"end":80.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.97596875,"end":82.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.19096875000001,"end":85.73909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.53221875,"end":86.54909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.54909375000001,"end":87.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.65846875000001,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.56971875,"end":92.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.06284375,"end":93.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.11346875000001,"end":97.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.64034375,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.85534375,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.34471875000001,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.46284375,"end":98.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.12034375,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.33096875000001,"end":107.84534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.91284375000001,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.68034375,"end":110.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.71409375,"end":110.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.92471875000001,"end":117.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.57346875,"end":131.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.33096875,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.02284375000002,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.92471875,"end":149.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.21159375000002,"end":141.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.40034375000002,"end":148.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.96534375000002,"end":160.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.51221875000002,"end":163.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.53284375,"end":175.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.02909375000002,"end":184.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.34846875000002,"end":189.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.24596875,"end":190.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.37659375,"end":203.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.51159375,"end":192.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.15534375000001,"end":204.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.16346875000002,"end":209.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.86721875,"end":210.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.96846875,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.77721875,"end":220.24971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.34659375,"end":221.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.54971875,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.33409375000002,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.43096875,"end":250.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.00034375,"end":269.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.03534375000004,"end":279.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.61596875000004,"end":279.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.91971875,"end":288.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.77909375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.02784375000005,"end":290.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.58034375,"end":294.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.59721875,"end":292.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.52909375,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.13659375000003,"end":296.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.68909375000004,"end":298.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.65909375,"end":320.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.22159375,"end":320.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.41971875,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.97659375,"end":321.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.34346875,"end":328.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.38034375,"end":333.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.97034375000004,"end":341.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.69909375000003,"end":343.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.03221875,"end":343.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.58909375,"end":343.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.12909375000004,"end":344.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.14596875,"end":344.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.61846875000003,"end":344.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.63534375,"end":344.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.02346875,"end":349.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.49159375000005,"end":346.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.25471875,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.02659375,"end":353.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.37659375000004,"end":366.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.67596875000004,"end":356.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.13034375,"end":364.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.89784375000005,"end":366.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.18034375,"end":368.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.96909375,"end":369.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.20534375,"end":369.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.44159375000004,"end":378.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.89596875,"end":378.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.53721875,"end":379.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.48221875,"end":379.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.65096875,"end":380.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.66784375000003,"end":381.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.67596875000004,"end":383.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.86971875,"end":385.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.98784375,"end":384.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.60784375000003,"end":390.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.65846875,"end":386.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.21909375,"end":390.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.26534375,"end":390.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.60284375000003,"end":391.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.02471875000003,"end":391.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.69971875000005,"end":391.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.71659375,"end":396.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.01971875000004,"end":401.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.97659375,"end":416.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.61971875,"end":421.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.76284375,"end":422.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.88909375000003,"end":428.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.21284375000005,"end":438.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.88221875000005,"end":444.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.28221875,"end":447.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.43346875000003,"end":453.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.14221875000004,"end":449.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.79971875,"end":455.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.55471875,"end":458.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.86221875,"end":459.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.92534375,"end":462.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.72659375,"end":465.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.78096875000006,"end":466.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.48534375,"end":467.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.36284375,"end":469.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.38784375000006,"end":470.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.55221875,"end":475.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.07471875000005,"end":478.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.84221875000003,"end":481.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.77846875000006,"end":484.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.00159375000004,"end":487.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.22034375000004,"end":489.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.40971875,"end":497.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.15159375,"end":497.72534375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.167,"end":19.017,"text":"快點快點快點楊委員楊委員我們快點謝謝那部長既然你站著你就站著吧"},{"start":21.893,"end":49.809,"text":"議員好辛苦了我們就今天是預算的討論我們就預算來說議政業務你114年降下你編列了全社會防衛韌性訓練工作那這個部分呢你編了4.1億多那本期要請教要做什麼呢具體的課程是什麼呢找誰來上課呢對於替代役的任務你的新的規劃是什麼"},{"start":50.749,"end":52.09,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":80.889,"end":83.27,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":103.24,"end":115.786,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":132.395,"end":136.016,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":160.586,"end":162.467,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":190.299,"end":209.647,"text":"有嗎?還是按照民防法的規定大概有兩個替代役會比較多的精進作為一個是治安維護然後另外一個是屬於這個在消防替代役上面包括做緊急救護的工作那這個裡面還分成兩個層次一個是現役的替代役一個是被役的替代役"},{"start":211.019,"end":211.199,"text":"財團法人1"},{"start":227.305,"end":231.85,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":247.403,"end":249.624,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":270.216,"end":272.117,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":295.918,"end":320.215,"text":"一間園遊會在三百萬然後跟這個民防訓練不是訓練它就是一種結合遊戲跟演練也就是說如果我們的民防或者是這個替代役的人他們的家族一起來參與如何防災譬如說你回到地上後家裡的老的小的也都要知道怎麼樣逃難逃生會比較重要你是偏略在民防訓練的項目都是一樣啊"},{"start":322.543,"end":327.624,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":350.305,"end":350.785,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":369.737,"end":390.935,"text":"而是你寫了一個第一期整修工程3.2億那你一期就表示有二期有三期阿有沒有那你為什麼不寫清楚呢你就給他寫一個第一期讓人家來質疑你有沒有二期有沒有三期有沒有四期有沒有五期有沒有陪兒教育部"},{"start":391.796,"end":394.177,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":417.639,"end":418.579,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":438.965,"end":441.806,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":462.962,"end":467.685,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":492.441,"end":496.692,"text":"提供保規提供你的書面資料給本席嗎跟給委員會嗎好不好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1965,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時47分）既然部長已經站在那兒，你就站著吧！"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：辛苦了。今天是預算的審查，我們就預算來討論，114年役政業務項下，你們在「全社會防衛韌性訓練工作」部分編了四點一億多，請教這是要做什麼？訓練的課程是什麼？找誰來上課？對於替代役的任務，你的新規劃是什麼？請說明。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，其實我們的訓練項目規範跟範圍並沒有做太大的轉變，只是讓它更精進、更現代化；裡面多編出來的部分，第一個就是在中州技術學院的部分，因為配合私校退場條例，中州要退場，教育部希望內政部可以價購中州的校地，或是對校地上面的建築做比較好改善跟改建，所列經費大概三億多，都是處理硬體建設。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這個是場域的預算？"],["劉部長世芳：對。在中州，靠近臺中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是在臺中。換句話說，你增加三億多的這些預算，就是中州的場域……"],["劉部長世芳：都是硬體的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可是在預算書裡頭看不到這些詳實的內容，我們覺得很奇怪，為什麼突然間加了那麼多，所以……"],["劉部長世芳：我們可以提供給委員參考。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是提供給我參考，本來我們審預算就應該要知道預算的內容，怎麼可能四點一億、三億多就這……"],["劉部長世芳：我們有寫在裡面。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們才會請教你實質的內容是什麼？接下來本席還是要請教部長，對替代役的任務，你們有新的規劃嗎？在所謂的韌性訓練當中，對替代役的任務，你有新的規劃嗎？有沒有？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，真的沒有所謂的新的規劃，就是對象比較多；上課的內容，譬如防災式的訓練是在訓練EMT，也就是怎麼做緊急救護的這個部分，我們希望替代役加進去裡面……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在社會瞬息萬變，對於替代役的任務，本席具體建議部長，應該請相關主管單位好好地去調整，去看看有哪些需要調整，人家來做替代役，你要符合整個瞬息萬變的面向。如果你都沒有調整，人家來當替代役不是浪費時間嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我是說我們訓練預算的這個額度並沒有調整太多，但是訓練的科目的精進，我們會調整。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席剛剛的提問是，請問你對替代役任務有做新的規劃嗎？有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：還是按照民防法的規定，大概有兩個替代役會有比較多的精進作為，一個是治安維護；另外一個是在消防替代役部分，包括做緊急救護的工作。這裡面還分兩個層次，一個是現役的替代役，一個是備役的替代役。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長現在的回答，還是沒有回答本席的議題，你還是匡在你的框架裡面。本席告訴你，現在的社會瞬息萬變，請你們好好去檢討一下替代役的任務，有沒有新的規劃，將書面資料給本席。","接下來我要跟你討論的是民防的部分，本席非常重視民防，民防訓練不管是設備或是業務費，編了8,230萬1,000元，場域一期整理的工程費用是3.2億，就是你剛剛說中州的這個部分。在這個預算裡頭，有3場親子園遊會900萬元，就民防訓練跟全社會防衛機制相關必要性，要花900萬辦這3場親子園遊會，請問這是要做什麼園遊會？"],["劉部長世芳：跟委員報告，這個親子園遊會就是替代役他們要跟我們的防災，一起做親子的活動，是實際上的演練。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：跟防災一起做親子的活動？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的題目是3場親子園遊會900萬，一場要300萬嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：一場300萬，北、中、南各一場。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一場園遊會要300萬？然後跟這個民防訓練？"],["劉部長世芳：不是訓練，它就是一種結合遊戲跟演練，也就是民防或者是替代役的家族一起來參與如何防災，譬如遇到地震時，家裡老的、小的也都要知道怎麼樣逃生，會比較重要。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是編列在民防訓練項目裡面……"],["劉部長世芳：都是一樣啊。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是編列在民防訓練裡面，你再去思考這3場的親子園遊會要怎麼做，把書面資料給本席，我們再來討論，這個邏輯很奇怪。接下來要討論的是，你說民防訓練場地第一期費用，就是中州這3.2億，請問還有二期、三期嗎？有沒有？"],["劉部長世芳：土地價購或者是房屋的整建，它都是一次性而已。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那為什麼叫做一期？你是白紙寫黑字……"],["劉部長世芳：土地價購一次就解決了，但是房舍的整修會跨年度，需要做滾動，一共有6棟……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有二期、三期嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：不會那麼多。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不會那麼多？因為你寫了第一期整修工程3.2億，有一期就表示有二期、有三期啊！"],["劉部長世芳：我們主要分兩期，只是分兩期而已。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你為什麼不寫清楚呢？你就寫了一個第一期，讓人家來質疑你有沒有二期、有沒有三期、有沒有四期、有沒有五期、有沒有六期？"],["劉部長世芳：不是一年……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有配合教育部？"],["劉部長世芳：教育部一定會把這個建地給我們。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席具體跟你討論，也就是你們編列預算不要便宜行事，只有你們知道。審議是在立法院，連這麼簡單的議題，還要問你有沒有二期、三期，這個邏輯也太奇怪了。既然你說土地價購一次，設備費可能有二期的話，你為什麼不寫清楚？"],["劉部長世芳：這是中長期的計畫，未來我們會報告清楚。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不管是什麼長期的計畫，你本來就應該要寫清楚，不要認為頭洗了，後面身體一定要讓你洗，不一定！因為我們要審預算，要看緊荷包！我從來沒有看過預算這種寫法，第一期什麼什麼，沒有寫二期、三期，這樣便宜行事？不可以如此！部長擔任過立法委員，如果你是立法委員看到這個預算，你會不會覺得邏輯很奇怪，你會不會問他有沒有二期、三期？"],["劉部長世芳：我們不清楚的地方，會再來補正。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是你們不清楚，你是內行的，你要督導好，不可以這樣便宜行事。寫清楚到底幾期，光是一個中州，就有一期、二期，你為什麼不寫清楚？立法委員不知道你的內容要怎麼審？不知道未來還需要多少，怎麼審？請把詳實的書面資料送給委員會，大家才有辦法審查。我們務實來審預算，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：我們會遵照辦理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請提供你的書面資料給本席跟委員會。謝謝。"],["主席：請吳宗憲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156848","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156848","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66785b75bc411f49046e75ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c709bb89bbee775365ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:23:32 - 12:32:42","影片長度":"00:09:10","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:23:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:32:42+08:00","duration":550,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.818468750000001,"end":12.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.047843750000002,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.23284375,"end":32.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.46034375,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.21534375,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.31221875,"end":36.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.97409375,"end":70.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.735343750000006,"end":56.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.01159375,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":85.51971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.02596875,"end":90.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.12221875,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.61096875000001,"end":99.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.11221875000001,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.41534375,"end":135.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.27534375000002,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.03284375,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.02846875,"end":151.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.18034375000002,"end":151.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.78784375,"end":151.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.80471875,"end":156.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.62659375,"end":169.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.40096875,"end":172.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.99971875,"end":173.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.74221875,"end":177.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.33284375000002,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.25221875,"end":177.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.42096875000001,"end":177.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.58971875,"end":178.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.55159375000002,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.92284375,"end":182.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.26409375,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.56346875,"end":184.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.63034375,"end":187.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.64721875,"end":187.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.74846875,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.20409375,"end":188.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.50784375,"end":194.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.25784375,"end":196.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.08034375000003,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.97034375,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.03784375,"end":200.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.80971875,"end":201.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.43409375000002,"end":205.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.99034375000002,"end":207.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.36971875,"end":211.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.71534375000002,"end":212.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.53784375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.02284375000002,"end":230.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.28721875000002,"end":223.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.23971875,"end":245.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.51596875,"end":245.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.54534375000003,"end":245.56221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.20346875,"end":246.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.96284375000002,"end":248.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.27471875,"end":250.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.48971875,"end":252.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.29534375000003,"end":259.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.92284375,"end":267.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.63471875,"end":285.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.33221875000004,"end":291.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.18784375,"end":301.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.38034375,"end":312.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.45471875000004,"end":314.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.73284375000003,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.93721875,"end":335.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.74221875,"end":360.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.02971875000003,"end":359.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.02096875,"end":367.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.37034375,"end":370.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.95221875000004,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.16284375000004,"end":372.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.15784375000004,"end":388.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.03346875,"end":389.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.97846875000005,"end":400.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.52534375000005,"end":403.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.39409375,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.64721875000004,"end":405.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.89159375,"end":406.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.68471875,"end":414.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.29096875000005,"end":420.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.76721875000004,"end":432.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.53846875000005,"end":424.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.66471875,"end":427.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.13221875000005,"end":432.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.80721875,"end":440.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.06346875,"end":452.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.82221875000005,"end":445.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.43721875000006,"end":459.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.21221875000003,"end":501.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.75534375,"end":494.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.78909375,"end":495.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.81346875,"end":514.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.98846875,"end":520.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.18159375,"end":524.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.3247187500001,"end":532.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.15034375,"end":538.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.3940937500001,"end":547.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.86971875,"end":546.2578437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.272,"end":33.925,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":40.294,"end":69.546,"text":"專委員好部長好我想就是幾個禮拜前我們一起去看那個在國家男子那邊有個都會公園好的開幕這樣子那我想那個部長也非常清楚接下來我們台積電要進駐可是我們那邊人潮會越來越多可是我們相對那邊附近的公園只有那一座然後還有右艙然後還有另外一座是正在蓋的總共只有三座那我在想說我們是不是因為附地看起來是還有的我們是不是可以來爭取第二期的預算呢"},{"start":70.066,"end":71.687,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":101.138,"end":120.676,"text":"好全副就是說我想跟部長說明一下我自己的版本跟法那個院版的差異主要是我在條文裡面加入了貴金屬的定義還有受害者可以透過專戶來請領補償金那我想我們先從貴金屬來講就是說我詢問過全副會實務上當我們碰到受害者的侵害"},{"start":121.257,"end":149.9,"text":"如果是黃金或白銀的時候會先確認它是一個什麼樣子的形式比如是金項鍊或是銀戒指等等等等的我們就會用第16條的第二項第二款12條第一項第二款來去賠償它但是部長不知道有沒有發現到第一款現金的部分如果當事人被搶奪的財物從我們的史料很多來看是有金條銀條的那是不是就有適用第一條的可能性"},{"start":151.84,"end":178.319,"text":"可能性很高,但是我是不是請主辦機關來跟委員回應一下好嗎?報告委員,其實目前的一個定義,現金已經把金條、戒指等貴金屬性包含在內,其實可以不修的話已經列入了。你是說現在是用現金嗎?現在是用現金,還是用藝術品及首飾的部分呢?"},{"start":179.84,"end":207.142,"text":"黃金白銀這些都已經包含在內不管是金條或金氏可是金條跟金氏現在應該是用藝術品跟手勢的方式來處理也可以因為都是在第1條在16條裡面的第一款第一項跟第二項所以應該都是算在內都是包括在內所以我們目前是都已經包含在內了是好那我們把它增定出來把它名列出來貴金屬的部分這部分會有什麼樣子的疑慮嗎"},{"start":208.693,"end":211.856,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":234.175,"end":235.938,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":246.4,"end":251.544,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":267.637,"end":271.739,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":292.31,"end":293.811,"text":"三、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":314.787,"end":334.659,"text":"包委員我們沒有規定的原因也就是說當事人如果沒有這些餘力他用他現有的帳戶就可以領取那這樣子的話可以增加他便利性那如果有這種餘力的他自然可以以他專門的帳戶但是在我們現在的法律上面沒有沒有他並不一定曉得他有這樣的餘裕"},{"start":336.503,"end":360.581,"text":"沒有規定的話他當然可以專門的帳戶來做處理那未來舉證也比較方便但是因為他是一次性的一個舉付現有的其他多數的民眾可能沒有這種疑慮他就用現有的帳戶來處理就可以了那如果有這種疑慮的他可以另外再專門的帳戶來處理在法律上沒有規定也可以做"},{"start":361.061,"end":361.442,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":376.212,"end":404.825,"text":"就是說我知道說內政部其實有一個叫做內政部推動威權象徵處置補助作業要點但我調了一下資料從2023年到現在只有91案的補助案那我覺得這個我們的預算明明有1795案這個金額其實比人權管還要來的多可是我們申請案卻沒有這麼多是因為我們宣傳管道不清楚嗎還是怎麼樣為什麼申請的案件這麼少"},{"start":406.853,"end":432.124,"text":"那個補助的威權象徵處理的補助其實是威權象徵的一個處置跟那個請領那個被賠償的那個部分是不一樣的我知道是另外一個是我說補助因為我們現在這個是一個你可以來申請補助案嘛然後去拆全一些可能拆除銅像啦對不對但是我想問一下這個補助案是只能拆除銅像嗎還是有一般的"},{"start":432.904,"end":455.07,"text":"包含社會溝通然後這個改名命名這空間的一個改變這些也都是我們補助的一個範圍對沒有錯嘛可是問題是我們的案件申請案件相對人權管來說比較少我不曉得是不是說大多數的團體都還不曉得內政部這個部分不只只是包含採取同項也可以來申請社會溝通是我們有跟相關的這個社會團體開過三次的一個說明會跟他們來做溝通可以來申請"},{"start":460.651,"end":479.74,"text":"對那我想那我就如果我們都已經開過溝通那為什麼大家還是沒有來申請那是不是可以一個月之後提供給我一個檢討報告我們來了解如何再精進那最後再提一下因為這面的補助上限是10萬元那我們基本上還有非常多的威權的同項沒有辦法移除那我自己在學校我們在做這些公園遊戲場的拆除"},{"start":481.841,"end":482.602,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":504.722,"end":506.663,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":532.199,"end":532.94,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1882,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時24分）謝謝主席，我們有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。幾個禮拜前我們一起去看楠梓那邊有一個都會公園的開幕，我想部長也非常清楚接下來台積電要進駐，所以那邊的人潮會越來越多，可是相對附近的公園只有那一座，然後還有右昌，還有另外一座是正在蓋的，總共只有3座，那我在想，因為腹地看起來是還有，我們是不是可以爭取第2期的預算來規劃？"],["劉部長世芳：高雄都會公園裡面，確實後面還有一些在規劃當中，但是規劃以後到底能不能繼續往前，我們會來爭取。"],["張委員雅琳：會來爭取是嗎？現在會有什麼樣子的困難嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：經費。"],["張委員雅琳：經費，好哦！那我們來討論一下，好不好？我們會後來討論。這個不是我今天的重點，但這件事情是我非常關注的事情。","接下來要和部長討論有關於權復條例的內容，我想跟部長說明一下我自己的版本與院版的差異，主要是我在條文裡面加入了貴金屬的定義，還有受害者可以透過專戶來請領補償金。我們先從貴金屬來講，因為我詢問過權復會，實務上當我們碰到受害者的侵害，如果是黃金或白銀的時候，會先確認它是什麼樣子的形式，譬如是金項鍊啦！或是銀戒指啦！等等的，我們就會用第十六條第一項第二款去賠償他，但是部長不知道有沒有發現到第一款「現金」的部分，如果當事人被搶奪的財物，我們從很多的史料來看是有金條、銀條的，那是不是就有適用第一款的可能性？"],["劉部長世芳：可能性很高，我是不是請主辦機關來跟委員回應一下好嗎？"],["張委員雅琳：好。"],["鄭司長英弘：報告委員，目前的定義，「現金」已經把金條、戒指等貴金屬包含在內。其實不修的話，已經有列入了。"],["張委員雅琳：你是說現在用「現金」嗎？"],["鄭司長英弘：對，現金、黃金、白銀。"],["張委員雅琳：還是用「藝術品及首飾」的部分？"],["鄭司長英弘：黃金、白銀這些都已經包含在內。"],["張委員雅琳：不管是金條或金飾……"],["鄭司長英弘：對。"],["張委員雅琳：可是金條和金飾現在應該是用「藝術品及首飾」的方式來處理。"],["劉部長世芳：也可以，因為都是在第十六條第一項裡面的第一款、第二款，所以應該都算在內，都是包括在內。"],["張委員雅琳：所以目前都已經包含在內了？"],["鄭司長英弘：包含了，是。"],["張委員雅琳：好，那我們把它增訂出來，就是在貴金屬的部分把它明列出來，這部分會有什麼樣的疑慮嗎？"],["鄭司長英弘：沒有，只是現在已經包含在內。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，我是說我們去加強文字，會有什麼疑慮嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想這樣不妥當的理由，是在於我們所說的這個所有權的動產價值部分，下面臚列很多項，既然都包含在內的話，其實它就是一個概括性的概念，我們希望在母法裡面不要那麼複雜，可以寫在其他的附帶決議或是其他的說明欄裡面，讓執行的機關也就是我們的基金會，或者是衛福部未來在執行的時候，不會有這樣的困擾，就可以了。如果要把它臚列清楚的話，我們怕會掛一漏萬。"],["張委員雅琳：好，了解。下一個部分想要跟部長討論的，就是我們現在的版本想要設立一個專戶，主要是避免那些賠償金存入個人帳戶之後，成為強制執行的標的，變成左手拿到賠償金，右手就要繳欠繳金這樣的窘況。本席覺得立法院法制局的報告有一點滿值得參考，就是賠償金存入個人帳戶之後，會和個人資產混淆，變得難以辨識，可能會有混淆的疑慮，所以建議增設專戶，這樣就比較明確的知道哪一筆錢不能夠成為強制執行的標的。我們也知道，如果法律強制要求受害人要開立專戶，才能夠領賠償金，等同是增加受害者請領的成本，所以我們是不是可以用「得」檢具權利回復基金會出具這證明文件，於金融機構開立專戶？我們不強制，可以讓受害人自己來選擇。不曉得您對這部分的看法如何？"],["鄭司長英弘：報告委員，我們沒有規定的原因，也就是當事人如果沒有這些疑慮，他用他現有的帳戶就可以領取，這樣的話，可以增加他的便利性；如果有這種疑慮的，自然可以以他專門的帳戶來處理。"],["張委員雅琳：但是在我們現在的法律上面，不一定曉得他有這樣的疑慮。"],["鄭司長英弘：沒有規定的話，他當然可以用專門的帳戶來做處理，未來的舉證也會比較方便；但因為它是一次性的給付，多數的民眾可能沒有這種疑慮，他用現有的帳戶來處理就可以了；如果有這種疑慮的，他可以用另外專門的帳戶來處理，法律上沒有規定，也可以做。"],["張委員雅琳：現行狀況之下，他是可以開立專戶來處理，對嗎？我的理解是這樣子！"],["鄭司長英弘：是，因為沒有規定，所以他也可以以他的專戶來處理。"],["張委員雅琳：也就是現在已經保有這個彈性就對了？"],["鄭司長英弘：對。"],["張委員雅琳：了解。問最後一個問題，我知道內政部有一個推動威權象徵處置補助作業要點。本席調了一下資料，從2023年到現在只有91案的補助案，而預算書明明有1,795案，金額其實比人權館還要來得多，可是申請案卻沒有這麼多，為什麼申請的案件這麼少？是因為宣傳管道不清楚，還是怎麼樣？"],["鄭司長英弘：威權象徵處理的補助其實是威權象徵的處置，跟請領賠償的那個部分是不一樣的。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，那是另外一個。我現在說的這個是你可以來申請補助案，然後去拆除一些可能是銅像等等，對不對？"],["鄭司長英弘：是。"],["張委員雅琳：我想問一下，這個補助案是只能拆除銅像嗎？還是有一般的？"],["鄭司長英弘：包含社會溝通，然後改名、命名空間的改變，也都是我們補助的範圍。"],["張委員雅琳：沒有錯嘛！問題是申請案件相對人權館來說就比較少，是不是大多數的團體都還不曉得內政部的這個部分？不只是包含拆除銅像，也可以來申請社會溝通。"],["鄭司長英弘：是，我們有跟相關的社會團體開過三次的說明會，跟他們溝通說可以來申請。"],["張委員雅琳：對，如果我們都已經溝通過，為什麼大家還是沒有來申請？是不是可以一個月後，提供本席一個檢討報告，我們來了解如何再精進。","最後我再提一下，因為這裡面的補助上限是10萬元，基本上還有非常多的威權銅像，沒有辦法移除，我們自己在學校、遊戲場或公園的拆除作業，廢土清理等等，光一個銅像的移除用10萬塊處理，我想難度非常非常高，我們是不是也可以同時來檢討？因為政府的量能有限，我們提出這個辦法，就是希望民間也可以一起來參與，可是10萬塊似乎是不足夠的，這部分是不是也可以一併檢討，看看要怎麼樣來調整？"],["鄭司長英弘：我們補助的部分，目前沒有反應不夠。學校的部分，教育部有另外的規定，就是移除威權象徵之後，美化相關部分，教育部有30萬的補助。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，我的意思是，因為你說大家沒有反映10萬塊不夠，問題是來申請的人就少了，有可能他覺得10萬塊不夠，所以根本不會來申請。"],["鄭司長英弘：應該不是錢的問題，而是觀念上的溝通，這部分我們也持續跟相關機關開會來溝通。"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係，針對這個部分，如何讓更多的人來參與，讓民間一起來促進威權遺緒的部分，我想就在剛剛講的那個報告裡面，一併來呈現，一併來討論，好不好？謝謝。"],["鄭司長英弘：謝謝。"],["主席：請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156846","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156846","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678cbbc38b48fa7220575ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c17f2b9852dd2beff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:06:51 - 12:13:17","影片長度":"00:06:26","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:06:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:17+08:00","duration":386,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.207218750000001,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.64159375,"end":8.333468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.20159375,"end":15.960968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.39971875,"end":31.097843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.60784375,"end":37.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.11784375,"end":40.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.66159375,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.20096875,"end":49.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.55909375,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.643468750000004,"end":50.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.72346875,"end":52.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":53.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.55846875,"end":54.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.368468750000005,"end":59.768468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.072218750000005,"end":61.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.877843750000004,"end":66.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.92346875,"end":68.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.59409375,"end":68.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.55596875,"end":79.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.96784375,"end":81.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.24596875,"end":89.94096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.20659375000001,"end":93.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.57284375,"end":103.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.04034375,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.13284375,"end":104.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.31409375000001,"end":110.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.92909375,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.91534375,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.56221875,"end":159.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.14534375000002,"end":159.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.90471875,"end":165.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.00909375,"end":170.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.31659375,"end":179.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.54784375,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.96096875,"end":178.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.41221875000002,"end":183.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.50034375,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.39471875,"end":183.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.44534375,"end":186.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.79971875,"end":185.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.46596875,"end":190.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.66346875000002,"end":230.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.34096875,"end":235.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.88471875000002,"end":234.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.90971875000002,"end":241.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.91721875000002,"end":242.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.09846875000002,"end":245.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.02659375000002,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.30409375000002,"end":259.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.24346875000003,"end":263.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.85471875,"end":274.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.24534375,"end":278.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.81846875,"end":282.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.48909375,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.16409375,"end":286.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.58971875000003,"end":287.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.32784375,"end":287.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.74971875,"end":292.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.99784375,"end":294.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.18346875000003,"end":294.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.10721875,"end":296.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.53721875,"end":308.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.50596875,"end":320.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.75721875,"end":321.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.22096875,"end":325.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.04784375,"end":325.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.97159375,"end":326.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.46096875,"end":327.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.52409375,"end":333.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.06721875,"end":342.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.69034375,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.53221875,"end":370.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.52159375,"end":376.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.05221875,"end":382.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.71784375000004,"end":384.07221875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.229,"end":30.507,"text":"主席有請部長好請部長部長好2018年公投並大選然後當年的選務延宕那有兩大因素第一個就是中選會沒有事前規劃週延然後四中也沒有有效因應加以排除你認同嗎"},{"start":34.656,"end":39.984,"text":"委員你講的意見我們有看到媒體有報導有報導只是媒體報導嗎你認不認同"},{"start":42.041,"end":67.876,"text":"我覺得並不完全排除這些因素但是不是只有這兩個因素這兩個因素誰講的你知道吧這句話不是我講的你知道誰講的嗎賴清德總統講的賴清德在2018年的這個公投並大選結束之後召開的檢討他特別批評今天就是中選會事前未能規劃周延事終未能有效加以排除"},{"start":69.602,"end":89.81,"text":"那我要跟部長說啊那當年這個所謂的公投並大選的選務延宕的問題啊還造成一個很大的一個政治後果就是陳英前主委下台嘛對不對他也為此請辭下台啊對齁然後我們賴清德當時是行政院院長他也要求就是政府部門要提出檢討嘛對不對好我告訴你你知道檢討結果是什麼嗎"},{"start":96.618,"end":117.939,"text":"抱歉,因為2018的時候我並不在行政機關,所以我並不清楚最後檢討的結果跟結論。非常好,我覺得你這個態度是對的。你之前我質詢李進勇,我覺得你的態度比他對多了。你不知道的事你就說不知道就好。檢討的結果就是2019年就把公投跟大選拆掉了,拆開了,最省事嘛。"},{"start":119.013,"end":136.238,"text":"所以我要特別要講那我就要回到你的部分了上週內政委員會討論公投法修正案我看內政部報告說修正回覆全國性公民投票與選舉同日舉行投票是與選民期待跟意向並不相符我想請問您您的依據是什麼"},{"start":137.639,"end":157.905,"text":"我想我們在跟委員報告就是我們在跟很多地方政府交換過意見之後確實也認為說如果公投跟一般的所謂的大選就是總統的選舉一起舉行的話在選務上面確實會造成地方政府上面尤其是選務人員那個很多的這個工作上的壓力所以我們認為不要合併會比較好好你說選務問題我想請問你今天辦總統大選辛苦不辛苦"},{"start":167.182,"end":170.624,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":191.738,"end":217.979,"text":"所以換言之今天當我們出現選務上的負擔的時候當然我可以我可以理解我們可以精進選務甚至在包括說比方說我看民眾黨在公投法修正裡面就有把說10張選票就是把所有的公投事項列為同一張選票免得重複一直在領票過程當中延宕的時間或者你今天把所謂的先做所謂的一般選舉的投開票再做所謂的公投投開票"},{"start":218.559,"end":220,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":241.96,"end":243.962,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":260.305,"end":278.502,"text":"中學會主委直接跟我講說是因為2021年的公投四大公投裡面公投綁大選的公投沒有通過所以代表人民的民意否決它你比它還好一點點之所以沒有通過是因為我們的公投的門檻是多少"},{"start":279.878,"end":282.121,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":297.571,"end":321.602,"text":"因為今天民進黨當初提出公投並大選一個很重要主張就是公投大選拆開來必然導致投票率下降就會使得公投案基本上是不會通過這個事情就在2021年發生發生之後對2023年每兩年一次公投去年公投年我想請問部長你知道剩下多少提案通過嗎提案的只提案嘛不講投票通過提案數是多少"},{"start":323.311,"end":325.213,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":346.313,"end":355.307,"text":"因為公投通過的機率基本上幾乎不可能的時候到2023年沒有任何人提公投提案通過啦連提案都沒有啦"},{"start":356.624,"end":382.277,"text":"所以這是為什麼今天我們在談所謂公投併大選我最後做一個簡單的總結你剛剛講沒有你們的報告就說沒有民意基礎很抱歉啊那個新國會智庫的民調我們委託趨勢民調公司做的民調66.3%的民眾是支持恢復公投併大選只有21.3%不支持人民的公投權是民進黨心心念念的人民的權利我希望部長能夠放在心上以上謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1771,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時6分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。2018年公投併大選，當年的選務延宕有兩大因素，第一個就是中選會沒有事前規劃周延，然後事中也沒有有效因應加以排除，你認同嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：委員，你講的意見我們有看到媒體報導。"],["羅委員智強：有報導，只是媒體報導嗎？你認不認同？"],["劉部長世芳：我覺得並不完全排除這些因素，但是不是只有這兩個因素。"],["羅委員智強：不是只有這兩個因素，這兩個因素誰講的你知道吧？這句話不是我講的，你知道誰講的嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉，我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：賴清德總統講的。"],["劉部長世芳：我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：賴清德在2018年公投併大選結束之後召開的檢討，他特別批評今天就是中選會事前未能規劃周延，事中未能有效加以排除。我要跟部長說，當年公投併大選選務延宕的問題，還造成一個很大的政治後果，就是陳英鈐主委下臺，對不對？他也為此請辭下臺啊！賴清德當時是行政院院長，他也要求政府部門要提出檢討，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["羅委員智強：好，我告訴你，你知道檢討的結果是什麼嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉，因為2018年我不在行政機關，所以我並不清楚最後檢討的結果跟結論。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，我覺得你這個態度是對的，之前我質詢李進勇，我覺得你的態度比他對多了，你不知道的事說不知道就好。檢討的結果就是2019年把公投跟大選拆掉啦！拆開啦！最省事嘛！所以我要特別講，我就回到你的部分，上週內政委員會討論公投法修正案，我看內部政部報告說「修正回復全國性公民投票與選舉同日舉行投票，似與選民期待及意向並不相符」，我想請問您，您的依據是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：跟委員報告，我們和很多地方政府交換過意見之後，確實也認為如果公投和所謂的大選，就是總統的選舉一起舉行的話，在選務上面確實會造成地方政府，尤其是選務人員很多工作上的壓力，所以我們認為不要合併會比較好。"],["羅委員智強：好，你說選務問題，我想請問，你今天辦總統大選辛不辛苦？"],["劉部長世芳：中選會和各地方的選務人員是非常的辛苦。"],["羅委員智強：當然很辛苦啊！那會不會因為選務辛苦，你就跟我說我們不用辦大選……"],["劉部長世芳：這是兩種不同……"],["羅委員智強：還是延續40年再選一次總統？"],["劉部長世芳：我想這是兩種不同層次，如果依照法律應該怎麼處理，我們就按照法律上面的規範。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，選舉、罷免、創制、複決都是人民的憲政權利，所以換言之，今天當我們出現選務上的負擔的時候，當然我可以理解，我們可以精進選務，比方說我看民眾黨在公投法的修正裡面，就有把10張選票，就是把所有的公投事項列為同一張選票，免得重複一直在領票過程當中延宕了時間，或者你今天先做一般選舉的投開票，再做所謂的公投投開票，這些選舉技術上的討論，我覺得當然是可以討論的，可是直接就把民進黨長年主張的公投併大選拆掉，這一點你總知道吧？公投併大選最早提出主張的政黨是哪一個政黨？"],["劉部長世芳：但是它並沒有沒收憲法上面所賦予的公民投票權啊！那只是時間上不同而已。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，很簡單啊！你現在的做法是什麼？我套句大法官最厲害的一招，叫實質廢死啊！我就問您嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：我不一定完全同意委員的說法。"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，就實質廢公投嘛！你說你不一定認同，我們從實證來跟你說，第一個，你知道當公投大選拆開來之後，你的回答至少比中選會主委誠懇，你還說你去溝通地方政府，中選會主委直接跟我說是因為2021年的四大公投裡面，公投綁大選的公投沒有通過，所以代表人民的民意否決它，你比他還好一點點，之所以沒有通過是因為我們的公投門檻是多少？"],["劉部長世芳：你是說哪……"],["羅委員智強：我們公投通過的門檻是多少？"],["劉部長世芳：同意票要多於不同意票，而且要四分之一以上。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！就25%門檻嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["羅委員智強：那請問當年公投併大選的同意票比例是多少？"],["劉部長世芳：抱歉，我現在沒有……"],["羅委員智強：20%啦！那我要跟你講，民進黨當初提出公投併大選一個很重要的主張就是公投大選拆開來必然導致投票率下降，就會使得公投案基本上不會通過，這件事情就在2021年發生，發生之後對2023年，每2年一次公投，去年公投年我想請問部長，你知道剩下多少提案通過嗎？提案的，只提案哦！不是講投票通過，提案數是多少？"],["劉部長世芳：我沒有這個數字，抱歉，我要回去查一下。"],["羅委員智強：提案數是零啦！提案數是零。"],["劉部長世芳：我要回去查一下。"],["羅委員智強：我要跟你講，部長，您雖然是新上任的部長，可是內政部的報告裡面，對於公投法你們有很多負面意見，那你現在跟我講很多不瞭解，你先瞭解狀況之後再請你們報告好好寫，好不好？我問到現在，你有很多都不瞭解啊！因為公投通過的機率基本上幾乎不可能的時候，到2023年沒有任何人提公投提案通過，連提案都沒有啦！所以這是為什麼今天我們在談所謂公投併大選，我最後簡單的總結，你們的報告是說沒有民意基礎，很抱歉啊！新國會智庫的民調，我們委託趨勢民調公司做的民調，66.3%的民眾是支持恢復公投併大選，只有21.3%不支持，人民的公投權是民進黨心心念念的人民的權利，我希望部長能夠放在心上，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156845","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156845","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783235945cd6c91cbe75ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c4a16c5dc7554018e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:54:48 - 12:06:39","影片長度":"00:11:51","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:54:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:06:39+08:00","duration":711,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.60846875,"end":6.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.83159375,"end":7.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.56471875,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.42534375,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.336593750000002,"end":16.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.51784375,"end":19.234718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.62284375,"end":26.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.351593750000003,"end":30.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.372218750000002,"end":52.900343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.220968750000004,"end":64.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.86471875000001,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.54346875,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.14971875,"end":80.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.89596875000001,"end":83.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.11909375,"end":118.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.37534375000001,"end":122.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.83034375000001,"end":139.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.27534375000002,"end":137.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.63346875000002,"end":157.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.83846875,"end":152.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.76159375,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.82034375,"end":166.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.02596875,"end":177.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.75846875000002,"end":187.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.59659375,"end":198.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.19409375,"end":198.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.81846875000002,"end":207.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.66534375,"end":209.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.44971875000002,"end":226.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.97034375,"end":243.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.89846875,"end":226.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.94909375,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.96596875,"end":226.99971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.99971875000003,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.03346875000003,"end":227.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.10096875000002,"end":227.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.74221875,"end":227.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.86034375000003,"end":227.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.89409375000002,"end":227.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.92784375000002,"end":228.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.21471875,"end":228.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.53034375000001,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.32659375000003,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.65971875000002,"end":245.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.18659375000001,"end":255.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.58596875,"end":257.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.71221875000003,"end":260.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.85096875,"end":261.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.98596875000004,"end":261.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.30659375,"end":261.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.37409375000004,"end":261.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.44159375000004,"end":261.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.45846875,"end":261.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.52596875,"end":262.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.15034375,"end":270.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.21659375,"end":271.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.34721875,"end":282.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.04721875,"end":275.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.00784375,"end":312.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.81159375000004,"end":296.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.86221875,"end":297.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.25221875,"end":314.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.22659375,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.02721875000003,"end":338.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.58409375,"end":323.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.78971875,"end":329.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.04159375,"end":337.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.02034375,"end":338.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.44221875,"end":339.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.79221875,"end":351.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.38534375,"end":351.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.27971875000003,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.29659375,"end":354.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.31346875,"end":352.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.16534375000003,"end":361.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.33784375000005,"end":359.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.34159375,"end":364.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.18096875000003,"end":364.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.69971875000005,"end":365.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.61096875000004,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.62784375,"end":366.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.46284375000005,"end":368.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.47971875,"end":368.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.49659375000005,"end":371.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.51346875,"end":369.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.47096875,"end":379.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.24596875000003,"end":381.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.00096875,"end":383.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.28346875,"end":383.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.24534375,"end":383.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.32971875000004,"end":384.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.81471875,"end":385.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.18596875000003,"end":387.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.32909375,"end":388.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.56096875000003,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.13784375,"end":399.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.71971875,"end":399.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.37784375,"end":400.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.77409375,"end":411.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.94971875000005,"end":414.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.51471875000004,"end":415.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.23596875000004,"end":417.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.99096875000004,"end":423.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.49221875,"end":425.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.12471875,"end":426.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.79971875,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.29721875,"end":432.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.60471875,"end":433.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.03909375,"end":436.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.81534375,"end":439.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.68409375000005,"end":443.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.45159375000003,"end":444.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.15971875,"end":455.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.82096875,"end":469.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.68971875000005,"end":455.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.36721875,"end":475.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.43784375,"end":477.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.15471875000003,"end":477.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.40784375000004,"end":477.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.91409375,"end":482.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.42034375000003,"end":480.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.35659375000006,"end":485.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.64721875000004,"end":487.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.13221875000005,"end":503.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.99846875000003,"end":512.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.44034375,"end":516.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.81534375,"end":518.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.2790937500001,"end":521.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.3503437500001,"end":523.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.1515937500001,"end":529.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.12534375,"end":534.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.55971875,"end":533.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.7365937500001,"end":550.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.56534375,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.0290937500001,"end":555.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.8303437500001,"end":559.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.67784375,"end":564.2465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.1203437500001,"end":565.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.27159375,"end":570.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.74409375,"end":567.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.0772187499999,"end":587.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.23159375,"end":580.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.6184687500001,"end":597.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.38471875,"end":606.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.71721875,"end":612.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.3828437500001,"end":628.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.33096875,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.3840937500001,"end":639.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.23471875,"end":640.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":640.42034375,"end":640.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.82534375,"end":641.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.8503437500001,"end":642.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.8672187500001,"end":643.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":644.35221875,"end":652.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.79846875,"end":651.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.9753437500001,"end":656.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":655.0847187500001,"end":656.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.6372187500001,"end":657.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.9953437500001,"end":664.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.47596875,"end":664.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.9397187500001,"end":675.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.12909375,"end":670.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.1615937500001,"end":686.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":684.6497187500001,"end":686.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.3203437500001,"end":686.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.7084687500001,"end":702.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.7590937500001,"end":687.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.48471875,"end":689.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.46159375,"end":707.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.37221875,"end":707.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.5828437499999,"end":707.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.88659375,"end":707.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.9540937500001,"end":708.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.02159375,"end":708.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.03846875,"end":708.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.0890937500001,"end":708.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.1228437500001,"end":708.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.17346875,"end":708.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.44346875,"end":708.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.84409375,"end":710.3672187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.81,"end":7.512,"text":"謝謝主席本席請劉部長請部長部長好今天本席雖然沒有都一直聆聽前面委員的質詢但是我這個不時的就聽到大家非常關心打詐毒品危害台灣的問題"},{"start":31.03,"end":52.717,"text":"本席在這邊首先要對我們這個打詐的各個單位特別是我們警察特別表示對警察的辛苦給予12萬分的敬意但是我們從很多的新聞我們也看到譬如說我們看到警察所以我們對所有的警察我們是肯定的"},{"start":53.317,"end":63.936,"text":"但是我們不時的看到一些個案看到一些個案警察洩民眾的個資給詐騙集團部長您知道有這類的事情嗎?"},{"start":65.152,"end":68.935,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":83.985,"end":91.546,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":113.37,"end":115.992,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":140.669,"end":157.838,"text":"包括之前有很多包括我們刑警大隊長洩密給博弈集團我相信您一定知道這個那麼大另外還有涉嫌吞張款甚至喝花酒包庇地下會隊等等"},{"start":160.201,"end":186.751,"text":"這麼多的這些案件出來其實民眾很擔心甚至有人也質詢毒品的問題我們的警察紀律就是說很多很辛苦的警察本需要在這邊再三強調我們是最支持警察而且非常肯定我們警察的辛勞那但是我不知道我們現在整個警政系統我們的督察室我們的督察系統整個失靈了嗎為什麼一直層出不窮"},{"start":187.671,"end":188.452,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":199.094,"end":228.486,"text":"第一個我想這樣的個案繼續層出不窮的話第一個我們在警政的紀律上面要加強之外目前有怎麼做因為這已經一直發生了剛您所說的部分第一個個資外洩是一個最重要的部分那個資外洩大概在限制於說這個警員他自己能不能透過他自己的公權力去查看不是屬於他職權範圍內的個資沒錯這一個現在已經開始有落實了嗎我就問有或沒有開始了嗎"},{"start":228.826,"end":229.767,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":246.238,"end":269.739,"text":"不斷的跟外面的包括很多的蟑螂跟詐騙集團跟所有危害民眾生命財產安全的這些壞人勾結。這個情況怎麼辦?層出不窮啊。我敢說全國的立委一定都接話過。如果說有這些狀況我們是絕對是支持緊急請辦。我們一定會嚴格判到底。"},{"start":270.359,"end":272.361,"text":"有關失聯移工的事情您知不知道?"},{"start":297.12,"end":299.462,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":314.752,"end":319.535,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":342.788,"end":345.189,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":368.553,"end":369.134,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":385.213,"end":388.775,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人1"},{"start":414.531,"end":417.154,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":432.642,"end":433.322,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":459.369,"end":464.55,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":483.294,"end":484.835,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":505.069,"end":506.29,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":523.098,"end":549.253,"text":"現在問題我們最主要就是你這個失聯移工的部分你沒有辦法解決啊你現在失聯移工那麼多你怎麼解決那最後你講怎麼解決失聯移工的其實現在這個失聯的這個狀況已經稍微的趨緩了我跟委員報告今年的1月到9月新增失聯的移工是18000多名跟去年同期來比較去年是24000多名"},{"start":550.874,"end":555.677,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":566.323,"end":569.106,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":587.862,"end":596.816,"text":"後來我們所有委員我們也覺得其實還跟其他有關但是就是太慢了跨部會的整合太慢部長你也可以跟行政院講嗎"},{"start":598.544,"end":617.452,"text":"對不對?你身為內政部長你總是要跟行政說可不可以來幫忙跨部會整合?謝謝委員的關心。還有我們去查紀律。跨部會的大問題,那我們會從法律上應該做的部分來處理。但是移民事務實在委託。沒有啦,好好的做就不會變成大問題。就是因為我們都是一直姑息養奸還有沒有作為。"},{"start":618.412,"end":623.817,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":644.523,"end":646.565,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":660.183,"end":660.864,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":676.215,"end":678.377,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":696.471,"end":699.713,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1673,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時54分）謝謝主席，本席請劉部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：召委好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。今天本席雖然沒有一直聆聽前面委員的質詢，但是我不時地聽到大家非常關心打詐及毒品危害臺灣的問題，本席在這邊首先要對打詐的各個單位，特別是警察，特別表示對警察的辛苦給予十二萬分的敬意。雖然我們對所有的警察是肯定的，但是我們不時地看到一些個案，譬如警察洩民眾的個資給詐騙集團。部長，您知道有這類的事情嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：有，而且我們馬上迅速做行政處分，也移送偵辦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你們都是做事後，事後馬上做，但為什麼一直層出不窮？有沒有找到其中的原因？我沒有說要回答，等一下您可以一併來回答。我們看到警察洩個資給詐騙集團，除了三重有一位李姓警員替詐騙集團查個資，臺北市中山分局建國派出所也有一位駱姓警員，他和律師，甚至和新北市的里長所組成的犯罪集團勾結，來查一些獨居老人的個資，然後得到一些不法利益。","再來，我們看到過去已經被起訴的，警察除了用職權勾結詐騙集團之外，還有警察利用職權查詢正妹個資的案例，您知道有這回事嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：也都知道。好，包括之前有刑警大隊長洩密給博弈集團，我相信您一定知道，這個事件那麼大。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：另外，還有涉嫌吞贓款，甚至喝花酒、包庇地下匯兌等等，這麼多的案件出來，其實民眾很擔心，甚至有人也質詢毒品的問題，對於警察紀律，就是說很多很辛苦的警察，本席要在這邊再三強調，我們是最支持警察而且非常肯定警察的辛勞，但是我不知道現在整個警政系統的督察室、督察系統整個失靈了嗎？為什麼一直層出不窮？那這樣受害的就是民眾，其實應該執法甚至保護民眾的，結果卻跟壞人勾結，這個情況部長怎麼看待？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我想這樣的個案繼續層出不窮的話，第一個，我們在警政的紀律上面要加強之外，恐怕也是剛……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，目前有怎麼做？因為這已經一直發生了。"],["劉部長世芳：是，剛剛您所說的部分，第一個，個資外洩是最重要的部分，那個資外洩大概在於限制警員能不能透過他自己的公權力去查看，不屬於他職權範圍內的個資……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒錯，這一個現在已經開始落實了嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：對，我們現在在落實。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我就問有或沒有，開始了沒？"],["張署長榮興：有，我們目前是主動在稽核，主動稽核就是說大量的稽核……"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，主動稽核。"],["張署長榮興：不管是在督察、政風、資訊，都是在稽核大量的資料，包括這一個員警有沒有異常的狀況。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好啦！這一塊是一部分，更大一部分是不斷地跟外面的，包括很多的蟑螂跟詐騙集團，跟所有危害民眾生命財產安全的這些壞人勾結，這個情況怎麼辦？層出不窮啊！我敢說全國的立委一定都接獲過。"],["張署長榮興：報告委員，如果有這些狀況，我們絕對是支持警紀警辦，我們一定會嚴格辦到底，如果有這個狀況。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，你這個還是事後補救嘛！但是你一直發生，所以是不是可以……"],["張署長榮興：所以我們是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為今天時間有限，希望你們會後可以給我們積極的防弊作為，好不好？我接著還要特別就教部長，有關失聯移工的事情，您知不知道？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：失聯移工非常的多，現在又說要引進印度1,000名移工，失聯移工這個問題非常大。部長，我要請教你，有一個很重要的情況就是失聯移工來自首，結果警察或是專勤隊竟然把他放走，你知不知道有這種情況？"],["劉部長世芳：我想不是放走。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一邊遭退貨，一邊危及治安。"],["劉部長世芳：不是，失聯移工來自首的時候，按照相關的規定，只能留置……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，他要罰錢。"],["劉部長世芳：只能留置一段短暫的時間，而不是說永遠收留他，不是這個樣子。我是不是請署長來回應這個問題？"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有、沒有，等一下，失聯移工他來了以後，你說只能給他收留一段時間，那你怎麼會繼續讓他失聯呢？你找到失聯移工，應該要讓他到他的地方……"],["鐘署長景琨：跟委員報告，媒體報導應該是有一點出入啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：我不是看媒體報導。"],["鐘署長景琨：失聯移工有的他……"],["徐委員欣瑩：他如果沒有錢怎麼辦？你要就事論事，不要浪費我的時間。"],["鐘署長景琨：是，他可以事前……"],["徐委員欣瑩：他沒有錢，這時候你們會怎麼處理？失聯移工。"],["鐘署長景琨：要催繳，我們還是依照規定要跟他催繳。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你催繳，OK，署長，是你沒有搞清楚第一線的情況，失聯移工沒有錢，他就說那你繼續去當失聯移工。"],["鐘署長景琨：沒有！沒有！我們不能夠這樣子。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們就是這樣子，包括……"],["鐘署長景琨：沒有！沒有！"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你要去瞭解。"],["鐘署長景琨：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：然後再來，這是自首的哦！這是自首的，另外是被你們抓到的，被你們抓到了他沒有錢，你們會去找安定基金，對不對？"],["鐘署長景琨：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：就業安定基金嘛！"],["鐘署長景琨：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：就業安定基金等於是人民的納稅錢，然後我們去繳失聯移工該罰的錢，你們也覺得這樣不合理，所以你們又去找雇主，找雇主這件事就有問題，雇主很無辜啊！我現在問部長，失聯移工好好地來這邊工作，為什麼他要失聯？部長，你知道嗎？署長，你知道嗎？"],["鐘署長景琨：移工失聯，其實原因真的是很多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有很多因素，你講兩個重要的因素。你說什麼？很多？"],["鐘署長景琨：當然有很多不同的原因。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你怎麼可以讓他很多呢？移工來……"],["鐘署長景琨：不是，我是說移工失聯的原因，造成的原因很多。"],["徐委員欣瑩：原因很多，最大宗、前幾個，那你講有哪些原因？"],["鐘署長景琨：可能他原來的仲介費就是高嘛！或者是他對勞動條件，或者是勞資的對待……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，你說到最重要的一點，本席要說，就是有很多非法仲介不斷地引誘他成為失聯移工，這一塊內政部移民署沒有作為，這第一點。"],["鐘署長景琨：有，對於非法仲介，我們也列為查處的重點。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是現在問題就很大嘛！這第一個。第二個，還有他個人的因素。"],["鐘署長景琨：然後主管機關，仲介是勞動部嘛！也不是我們。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好啦！沒關係，但是這個環環相扣嘛！"],["鐘署長景琨：是，我們也跟他們一起協調。"],["徐委員欣瑩：第二個，當然還有他個人的因素，他可能去戀愛或幹嘛，就跑走了。有關失聯移工的部分，在就業服務法第六十條第一項第二款，遣送事由歸責於雇主，就是就業安定基金找雇主拿，其實……"],["鐘署長景琨：那個是非法的雇主，不是合法的雇主。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那你要寫清楚，因為這個部分太重要。"],["鐘署長景琨：就服法也是勞動部主管的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，現在最主要的問題就是失聯移工你沒有辦法解決啊！現在失聯移工那麼多，你怎麼解決？好，最後你講，怎麼解決？"],["鐘署長景琨：我跟委員報告，其實現在失聯的狀況已經稍微趨緩了，今年1月到9月新增失聯移工是一萬八千多名，與去年同期來比較，去年是兩萬四千多名。"],["徐委員欣瑩：等一下，是新增的總計，還是純粹新增？"],["鐘署長景琨：就是純粹新增的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你想想看，一年純粹新增一萬多，這很可怕。"],["鐘署長景琨：所以我們也是查很多，我跟委員報告，我們一年平均都查超過……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是！好，你一邊查，你有沒有一邊防弊嘛？"],["鐘署長景琨：是，所以防弊的部分就是要加強源頭的管理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還有，現在中央政府最大的問題就是，沒錯！這是勞動部的法條，但是與你們的權責相關，難道都不能跨部會……"],["鐘署長景琨：有，跟委員報告……"],["徐委員欣瑩：想辦法把問題解決，包括打詐，打詐本來都一直仰賴警政署、內政部，後來所有委員也覺得還跟其他有關，但是就是太慢了，跨部會的整合太慢。部長，你也可以跟行政院講嘛！對不對？你身為內政部長，你總是要跟行政院說，可不可以來幫忙跨部會整合……"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的關心。"],["徐委員欣瑩：失聯移工，還有警察紀律。"],["劉部長世芳：它確實是跨部會的大問題，我們會從法律上應該做的部分來處理，但是移民署確實是在尾端。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有啦！好好地做就不會變成大問題，就是因為我們一直姑息養奸，還有沒有作為……"],["劉部長世芳：還有黑工市場。"],["徐委員欣瑩：才會一直把問題變大，非法移工、失聯移工這個問題太大了。街頭巷尾很多人很怕這些失聯移工造成的問題，所以部長還有署長，請你們一定要提出對策，可以嗎？可以嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我們會來檢討改進，但是我還是強調，這是跨部會的問題，不是只有移民署單獨可以承諾解決失聯移工。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，因為你們是第一線嘛！第一線總是要想辦法。"],["劉部長世芳：我們是最尾端跟最下游。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不要這樣踢來踢去，現在民進黨執政就是踢來踢去。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們沒有踢，所以我們會把問題點出來，然後跨部會應該怎麼處理。我剛剛有跟委員報告……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是只點出來，要有想要解決問題的這種作為跟態度才可以。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：每一個單位都說我只是其中一部分，那現在執政很簡單啊！都沒關係啊！就放給它爛，絕對不可以這樣，臺灣現在太可怕了！"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，委員擴大解釋了，我想不是這樣子，我們依法行政跟依規定處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現況就是如此，包含詐騙，今天這麼多人講，臺灣怎麼會在民進黨執政之下變成詐騙者的天堂？我們還是對賴清德總統、政府有期待，希望可以改變，扭轉……"],["劉部長世芳：所以我們非常謝謝打詐四法可以通過，讓我們有好的利器可以處理打詐的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是啊！已經通過了，所以好好地做吧！"],["主席：好，謝謝。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156844","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156844","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d1ab2805fd8e276275ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c1c9e0eb0984d72d55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"11:47:49 - 11:54:40","影片長度":"00:06:51","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:47:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:54:40+08:00","duration":411,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.6759687500000005,"end":8.164718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.687843750000003,"end":10.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.235343750000002,"end":20.922218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.07409375,"end":24.53346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.68,"end":5.121,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1645,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時47分）謝謝主席，我們先請劉部長，還有請國土署吳署長。"],["主席：好，請部長跟署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，你好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。部長，今天和部長來討論一些跟住宅有關係的事情，明年度租金補貼擴大方案是多少錢？"],["劉部長世芳：300億。"],["黃委員健豪：主要來源來自於哪裡？"],["劉部長世芳：住宅基金。"],["黃委員健豪：住宅基金嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，居住正義當然是每一任政府的核心問題，尤其近代的房價上漲，我想問一下，我們用住宅基金去補貼房租，最後希望達到什麼樣的政策目的？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，剛剛委員有提到，居住正義，但是很大一部分的租金補貼對象應該是年輕人。"],["黃委員健豪：對。"],["劉部長世芳：年輕人對於居住正義的需求當然是相當的大，我們現在運用住宅基金的部分也是合乎住宅法裡面相關的規定。"],["黃委員健豪：我知道，我是說你們推動這麼多的住宅租金補貼，你希望用這筆錢最後能夠達到什麼成效？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我想委員所垂詢的部分非常正確，第一個，我們在土地租金，還有就是包租代管，還有直接興建住宅，我們很希望未來的年輕人在他事業有成或者成家立業之後，可以朝著我們所說的，在社會住宅上面申請，然後最後他可以得到自己的自用住宅，這樣才能夠真正幫助年輕人。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長謝謝。我還是要講，明年住宅基金裡面，多數的錢都拿去做租屋補貼，所以在興建社宅的部分，跟一開始的政策目標設定是有一定程度的落差，當然今天我沒有時間跟你討論這個議題，我們先回到住宅租金補貼這個問題。租金補貼到底有沒有造成房租上漲？國土署在2個月前有回應過，其實他們覺得沒有，但實際上比對50萬份租約，國土署認為租金只有上漲6%，房東如果因為房客申請租金補貼要求漲租的話，房客可以來申訴嘛！有這件事情，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["黃委員健豪：我想問一下部長，租金上漲的原因有很多種，那房客去申訴的時候，他是不是要舉證？他要不要舉證是因為我來申請租金補貼，所以導致我的房租上漲？還是我只要房租上漲，我都可以來申訴？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，的確就像您說的，其實上漲的原因很多，但是現在有些房客面臨的問題是房東在續約的過程當中，因為知道他有申請租金補貼，如果是持這個理由來要求漲租，那當然就是一個不合理的做法，所以針對這個做法可以提出相關的申訴，而且這個部分會違反定型化契約的規定，所以他也可以向地方的消保官或地政單位來提出檢舉，我想這是為了要保障房客的權益，我們在這個過程當中也有特別提出這些說明。"],["黃委員健豪：我們釐清一下，如果房客換約的時候，房東漲他房租，這個有在你們申訴的範圍裡面嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：所以重點就是他在這個過程當中所提出的理由，因為我們的確在之前，不管是一些媒體的報導或者是有人反映，的確是說房東基於這個理由要跟他漲租，所以他才會覺得不合理，是這個原因。我們認為如果是這樣的狀況，其實是違反定型化契約的規定，所以這個部分是可以提出來的。"],["黃委員健豪：這個可能要請國土署提供我們正確的數據，因為到底有多少房東會這麼傻，跟房客說因為你申請租金補貼，所以我要漲你房租？我想漲房租有很多理由，他可以說因為房價上漲，貸款要增加，所以要增加你的房租，或是要翻新等，有很多種原因導致房租要上漲，所以在這個政策裡面，訂租金補貼出來之後導致房租上漲這件事情，你們說只有6%，但實際上我們看一下整體數字，這個是民間機構整理的，2022年7月實施之後，到現在滿2年，六都裡面除了臺南房租有稍微下跌之外，不管是臺北、新北、桃園、新竹縣、新竹市、臺中市，多數的房租都是上漲的哦！上漲非常多，最高的漲幅在新竹縣，達到二成，桃園市也快二成，臺北市3%，新北市13.2%，其實它的漲幅都非常多，所以你們的6%，這件事情到底怎麼來的？我覺得這個……"],["吳署長欣修：好，說明一下好了，其實整個房租上漲當然它的理由跟對象是很多，事實上今天能夠來申請租金補貼的，它的房型大概都是比較中古老舊的。第二個，可以符合申請對象的收入都有一定的限制，我想這些房東在這樣的狀況下不太會去漲租，但不代表所有的房子，因為所謂自用住宅的出租有包含高價位的，有包含比較偏低價位的，所以從這個數據去講租金補貼的對象普遍上漲，這個對象跟邏輯是不太一致的。"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，我還是要回到一開始問部長的問題，我們推動租金補貼的核心目的是希望短暫的這段時間讓他過渡，然後最後他自己能夠買得起房子，能夠住得起房子嘛！但如果租金補貼所謂的定錨效應，導致房租可能在市場已經有一個價位在那邊了，其實我覺得這對整個租屋市場是一個破壞啦！所以在申訴的部分，我覺得你的理由不能只有針對房東跟你講，因為有租金補貼，所以房租上漲，這件事情應該要放寬更多種原因去申訴，而不是只有這一個。","因為我講真的，如果我做房東，我是沒有這樣啦！我是說如果我做房東，我當然不會跟你講，是因為你申請租金補貼所以房租上漲啊！你會用很多種有的沒有的理由，導致最後的結果是房租上漲嘛！那房租上漲，你的租金補貼到最後就沒有辦法做到所謂過渡階段──讓你能夠住得起房子，更何況如果沒有辦法申請到租金補貼的人，他會因為這個政策受害啊！整個房租漲上來，我沒申請到反而還受政策所害，所以這部分我們希望內政部要整體的通盤檢討，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：好。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請徐欣瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156843","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156843","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d6c478bef3229eb375ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c9c42b40381f6ac9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"11:39:22 - 11:47:39","影片長度":"00:08:17","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:22+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:47:39+08:00","duration":497,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4.16534375,"end":4.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.388468750000001,"end":8.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.759718750000001,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.51471875,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.860343750000002,"end":12.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.88971875,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.235343750000002,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.27721875,"end":20.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.83784375,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.84971875,"end":37.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.15596875,"end":41.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.15534375,"end":46.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.33596875,"end":48.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.69846875,"end":52.039718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.680968750000005,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.359718750000006,"end":57.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.30034375,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.21909375,"end":66.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.31596875000001,"end":67.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.29471875,"end":68.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.53909375,"end":69.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.57284375,"end":70.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.36596875000001,"end":76.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.21721875,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.31784375000001,"end":81.33471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.33471875000001,"end":83.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.32596875,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.39346875000001,"end":83.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.51159375,"end":83.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.74784375,"end":85.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.50721875,"end":84.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.51971875000001,"end":89.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.46846875,"end":90.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.98284375,"end":98.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.07909375000001,"end":99.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.47971875,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.02784375,"end":105.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.43221875,"end":111.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.52909375,"end":107.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.36409375000001,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.97471875000001,"end":117.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.67159375,"end":139.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.94159375,"end":142.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.95846875,"end":140.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.27034375,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.43034375000002,"end":145.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.22346875,"end":145.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.81409375,"end":168.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.19784375,"end":147.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.60221875000002,"end":151.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.16659375,"end":158.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.60409375,"end":167.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.65034375000002,"end":175.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.17721875,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.02034375000002,"end":176.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.05409375000002,"end":179.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.12159375000002,"end":176.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.34909375,"end":184.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.27221875,"end":184.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.32284375,"end":184.42409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.42409375000003,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.52534375000002,"end":189.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.19971875000002,"end":191.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.71846875,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.56221875,"end":219.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.74159375000002,"end":204.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.72659375,"end":226.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.03784375,"end":240.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.79721875,"end":227.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.15409375000002,"end":238.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.48721875,"end":241.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.76534375000003,"end":247.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.72284375,"end":244.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.62534375,"end":249.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.66721875000002,"end":253.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.03346875000003,"end":255.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.21034375,"end":289.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.99846875000003,"end":296.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.82096875,"end":291.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.62596875,"end":303.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.15221875000003,"end":304.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.55721875,"end":314.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.74971875,"end":319.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.55909375000005,"end":319.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.89659375,"end":327.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.57159375000003,"end":320.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.60534375000003,"end":321.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":326.91659375,"end":333.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.86534375,"end":331.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.43034375,"end":340.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.60659375,"end":344.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.34471875,"end":341.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.94346875,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.74159375000005,"end":369.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.30221875,"end":371.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.80409375000005,"end":372.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.64784375000005,"end":373.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.25096875,"end":376.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.22096875,"end":379.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.68471875,"end":384.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.32096875,"end":387.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.29096875000005,"end":389.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.55659375000005,"end":391.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.85159375,"end":409.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.89096875,"end":416.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.33284375000005,"end":417.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.39596875,"end":430.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.34346875,"end":440.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.95784375000005,"end":442.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.15159375,"end":447.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.09596875000005,"end":450.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.40784375000004,"end":451.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.89284375000005,"end":454.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.69409375000004,"end":455.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.31409375000004,"end":459.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.72284375000004,"end":461.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.74784375,"end":463.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.19471875000005,"end":467.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.95784375000005,"end":470.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.77596875,"end":471.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.61971875,"end":472.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.34096875000006,"end":477.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.09971875,"end":485.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.74409375000005,"end":487.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.53284375000004,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.50721875000005,"end":490.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.80659375000005,"end":491.51534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.97096875000005,"end":492.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.13534375,"end":493.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.14346875,"end":496.03784375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.791,"end":14.213,"text":"感謝主席,來,補充,我們行政署張署長。來,署長。委員你好。你好。那個,劉部長。"},{"start":17.315,"end":30.339,"text":"因為本席認為說很多車輛懸掛偽造的車牌以造成治安上、交通上安全跟危害。那據統計113年上半年一共查獲1043輛車輛使用變造的車牌超過過去一整年924輛。"},{"start":43.484,"end":61.432,"text":"車輛懸掛假車牌就是故意違法的行為並不是無心之過我認為政府要硬起來政府要主動提出修法讓這些違法的人不敢再用假車牌我認為說懸掛假車牌的這些車輛部長跟署長你們站不在修法"},{"start":69.568,"end":71.209,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":92.131,"end":100.636,"text":"委員我們這已經有局局會了,有人要朝委員你剛才講的政策方向去做做,就是要給他沒入啦。對啦,我認為署長,部長你有同意嗎?同意啊,我們會用這個方式要求道教條例要去看。"},{"start":112.623,"end":117.267,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":142.487,"end":144.968,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":171.121,"end":172.503,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":189.364,"end":192.926,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":207.474,"end":208.875,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":225.825,"end":226.205,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":242.02,"end":244.061,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":260.131,"end":271.246,"text":"知己及村里長的事務補助條例今年6月立法院剛三讀通過第7至1條村里長任職滿6屆而且滿65歲應給予慰勞金及表揚"},{"start":275.211,"end":279.433,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":304.741,"end":308.542,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":326.766,"end":327.327,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":351.949,"end":354.512,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":370.35,"end":375.957,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":388.391,"end":416.264,"text":"其實齁你也可以不必去擔那個責任我想我提出來啊你會覺得說啊你怎麼有這個想法我告訴你新加坡是在我們的旁邊隔壁不遠啦他們齁不但是判刑還要加邊刑那你認為說邊刑不行講邊刑齁那些人權團體又來抗議啦但是我們可以公投因為這三樣而已這三樣你如果做我幫你保證所有刑法裡面最少減三成以上"},{"start":417.383,"end":421.766,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":443.198,"end":455.242,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":470.788,"end":473.93,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1601,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（11時39分）感謝主席。來，部長、警政署張署長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，你好。"],["林委員德福：你好，劉部長。本席認為很多車輛懸掛偽造車牌，已造成治安上、交通上的安全與危害。據統計，113年上半年一共查獲1,043輛車使用變造的車牌，超過過去一整年的924輛。車輛懸掛假車牌，就是故意違法的行為，並不是無心之過，我認為政府要硬起來，主動提出修法，讓這些違法的人不敢再用假車牌，對於懸掛假車牌的這些車輛，部長、署長，你們贊不贊成修法？"],["張署長榮興：贊成。"],["林委員德福：那你認為應不應該把車輛沒收？他為什麼要掛假車牌？很簡單嘛，他也知道這是假車牌，為什麼明知要去故犯？"],["張署長榮興：這是我們的政策走向，同意委員的看法。"],["林委員德福：你今天只要把車輛沒入，我敢保證，沒有人敢做。"],["張署長榮興：委員，我們已經有開過會了，那我們要朝委員剛才說的政策方向去做，就是要把他們的車沒入。"],["林委員德福：對，執法就是要嚴，部長同意嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：同意啊。我們會用這個方式要求道交條例要修改。"],["林委員德福：我們今天一定要針對問題，你們怎麼去解決問題，這才是正道，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["林委員德福：第二個，永和有一個行政園區，加上公辦都更，超過一公頃左右，裡面其實全部都是公家的，包括永和區公所、戶政事務所、永和分局、消防局永和分隊、永和國父紀念館、圖書館，整個都是公家的。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["林委員德福：下個月還要再開會討論？"],["吳署長欣修：對，第三次。"],["林委員德福：可不可以加速作業？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，第一個，因為這部分容積率大幅提高，第二個，有一些涉及都更以後還要提供給民間興建旅館、商場、住宅的土地，所以委員有要求補充公益性、必要性。因為補的時間比較久，所以等送來以後，我們下個月開會的時候會趕快幫忙確認。"],["林委員德福：這個行政園區很重要，因為我做過地方的首長，知道地方確實有那些需要。"],["吳署長欣修：我知道，委員也有打電話來關心過。"],["林委員德福：對。拜託。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["林委員德福：另外，我們永和有一個照護中心，那個照護中心原來你們要規劃蓋社宅，因為那個地方在水源路，路很窄不適合，那裡現在有做一個樂活實驗基地，很多人每個禮拜甚至每一天都有活動，永和地窄人稠，地方小，人口密集，什麼都不缺乏，就是缺乏公共設施，所以你們要是在那裡蓋社宅，就是雪上加霜，因為那裡是單行道，為什麼是單行道？因為路很窄，人口就很密集，再加上社宅，那不得了，所以說……"],["吳署長欣修：我跟委員報告，永和確實路窄，也不好找。但是我跟委員報告，因為大家確實需要社宅，不然你看行政園區路也不寬，也是要……"],["林委員德福：對啊。它在市中心裡面，路窄，你再蓋社宅，不適合，拜託！"],["吳署長欣修：我想這個大家繼續來研究。"],["林委員德福：我認為這個部分儘量能夠把它處理掉。","另外，部長，有一件事，地方民意代表費用支給及村里長的事務補助費條例，今年6月立法院剛三讀通過，第七條之一規定，村里長任職滿6屆而且滿65歲，應給予慰勞金及表揚，那你們在這整個處理過程裡，有沒有徵詢過那些會長？全省有遴選出總會長、各地的會長，你要聽聽他們的意見跟看法。"],["劉部長世芳：因為這是今年6月通過的，可能是在林部長的任內，我不清楚他有沒有徵詢，但是我們現在已經預告通過了。"],["林委員德福：預告通過就是村里長任職滿6屆以後有一些慰勞金、表揚等等，這個應該你要徵詢一些幹部的想法、看法，不能一意孤行，想怎麼做就怎麼做。"],["劉部長世芳：我們有在9月23日找地方政府來研商，那這個是慰勞性質。"],["林委員德福：那又不是地方政府的幹部，我的意思是叫他們的幹部，因為全省有總會長、有會長。"],["劉部長世芳：有，他們有來內政部拜訪過，但是沒有說到這條。"],["林委員德福：對啊。"],["劉部長世芳：他們那時希望我們可以補助他們出國。"],["林委員德福：這是里長的心聲，你要聽聽他們的意見，我認為還是要找他們來研商一下，要尊重。"],["劉部長世芳：他們有來內政部，但是不是反映這條，是反映其他的部分。"],["林委員德福：對啦，但是後來他們又補充這個意見，我覺得你們要重視，這些都是最基層的幹部，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["林委員德福：最後這一點，我認為很重要，我們都知道，其實像警政署打詐很用心，包括抓製毒的，抓那些毒販等等，因為我在地方每天跑基層，大家對毒販、詐騙犯、酒駕連續犯都很關心，他們認為政府拿不出辦法來治這些人，要怎麼治？部長，我告訴你，很簡單，其實你也可以不必去擔這個責任，我提出來，你會覺得「你怎麼會有這種想法」，我跟你說，新加坡在我們的旁邊，離我們不遠，他們不但判刑，還要加鞭刑。如果你認為不可以用鞭刑，講到鞭刑，那些人權團體又來抗議，但是我們可以公投，因為只針對這三樣而已，對這三樣罪犯你如果用鞭刑，我跟你保證，所有犯罪最少減三成以上，因為詐騙犯越打詐騙越多，數位發展部沒有用的，講實在話，很多老百姓很討厭數位發展部，花兩百多億，成效在哪裡？這是第一個。第二個，關於製毒，剛剛主席有特別提到，現在搞到深入到小學裡面，這有嚴重嗎？而且一直變種，要是今天加上鞭刑的話，不但是判刑，還要加鞭刑，效果才會出來。第三個，酒駕連續犯，他酒喝下去，1次2次、3次，結果被抓到。他迷迷糊糊車子開著去撞人，這種你還可以饒恕他啊？加鞭刑，他就會警惕，如果沒有的話，我跟你保證，沒效啦！你在做，警政署花再多的人力，結果呢？成效有限，所以我覺得你如果不擔責任，可以，我們就辦公投，多數的民眾都支持啦！剛剛我問旁邊的人，10個有9個都贊成，這三樣就好了。我跟你講，酒駕連續犯、製毒的、詐騙犯，加鞭刑，以上是我的建議，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：感謝委員。"],["主席（張委員宏陸）：現在請黃健豪委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156842","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156842","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678199124bac012711975ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c86617f26213d19805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"11:31:04 - 11:39:14","影片長度":"00:08:10","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:31:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:14+08:00","duration":490,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.48159375,"end":6.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.000343750000001,"end":7.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.531593750000003,"end":10.763468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.029093750000001,"end":18.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.27284375,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.656593750000003,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.457843750000002,"end":22.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.18346875,"end":26.204093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.254718750000002,"end":29.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.58784375,"end":27.891593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.891593750000002,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.11096875,"end":29.511593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.47784375,"end":33.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.612218750000004,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.369093750000005,"end":52.579718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.579718750000005,"end":60.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.61346875,"end":53.204093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.15221875,"end":61.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.16909375,"end":62.924093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.35471875,"end":62.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.97471875,"end":63.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.58221875,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.68346875,"end":65.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.05846875,"end":67.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.66596875,"end":68.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.07034375,"end":72.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.43721875,"end":83.02221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.37659375000001,"end":91.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.96596875,"end":97.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.19284375000001,"end":101.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.05721875,"end":103.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.03159375000001,"end":107.27159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.03096875,"end":109.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.90409375,"end":113.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.10596875,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.87784375000001,"end":119.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.23159375,"end":121.61534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.40409375,"end":127.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.50034375,"end":129.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.85034375,"end":133.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.27159375000002,"end":135.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.12346875,"end":141.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.02596875,"end":140.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.94971875000002,"end":148.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.54784375,"end":149.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.62784375,"end":152.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.63159375,"end":156.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.93034375000002,"end":160.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.30534375000002,"end":161.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.55409375000002,"end":164.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.44409375,"end":165.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.91221875000002,"end":166.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.49846875,"end":169.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.63721875000002,"end":175.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.71659375000002,"end":176.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.42096875000001,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.04909375,"end":183.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.96846875,"end":186.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.44909375,"end":192.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.76971875,"end":186.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.92159375,"end":186.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.51971875,"end":196.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.77221875,"end":207.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.43721875,"end":213.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.22534375,"end":219.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.64221875,"end":225.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.12721875000003,"end":221.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":226.10534375,"end":227.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.34159375000002,"end":226.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.53971875000002,"end":229.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.00346875000002,"end":230.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.41659375,"end":233.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.76659375000003,"end":238.39034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.23409375000003,"end":240.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.84971875000002,"end":242.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.91721875000002,"end":246.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.86596875,"end":255.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.97534375,"end":248.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.72534375,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.00784375,"end":259.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.99034375,"end":277.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.35471875,"end":279.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.64971875000003,"end":283.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.88534375,"end":283.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.90221875000003,"end":285.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.76284375,"end":285.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.80909375000005,"end":286.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.02846875,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.34471875,"end":294.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.73596875000004,"end":304.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.32096875,"end":306.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.95784375,"end":309.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.87284375,"end":310.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.67409375,"end":313.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.61909375000005,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.63159375000004,"end":314.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.77909375,"end":317.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.41596875000005,"end":320.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.52096875,"end":323.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.57159375000003,"end":320.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.76534375,"end":323.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.77784375000005,"end":324.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.44846875,"end":335.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.91096875,"end":343.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.06159375000004,"end":346.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.81221875,"end":349.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.35596875000005,"end":352.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.58346875,"end":353.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.55784375,"end":355.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.84034375000005,"end":360.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.30346875000004,"end":363.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.93596875000003,"end":366.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.94409375000004,"end":367.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.45034375,"end":373.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.74471875,"end":374.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.74034375,"end":377.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.03534375000004,"end":378.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.46971875,"end":382.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.62096875000003,"end":387.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.27846875,"end":387.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.76784375,"end":387.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.98284375000003,"end":390.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.78846875000005,"end":396.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.79596875000004,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.02346875,"end":399.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.08221875000004,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.30034375,"end":415.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.17284375,"end":419.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.99096875000004,"end":429.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.55034375,"end":429.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.95534375000005,"end":432.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.55409375000005,"end":432.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.90846875000005,"end":433.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.49909375000004,"end":436.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.11471875,"end":438.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.35909375000006,"end":443.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.04596875000004,"end":447.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.55596875000003,"end":450.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.21784375000004,"end":454.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.45346875,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.62596875,"end":461.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.16971875,"end":465.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.00034375,"end":467.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.65409375,"end":468.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.07596875,"end":472.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.78409375,"end":473.37471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.37471875000006,"end":487.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.65721875,"end":475.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.78159375,"end":488.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.96721875000003,"end":489.55784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.475,"end":7.536,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":23.254,"end":37.595,"text":"不知道我具體的要求,你們現在做的怎麼樣?上市煙彈的部分?對,請署長回答。跟委員報告,這個上市煙彈我們在今年的8月5號是公布為三級毒品。"},{"start":38.556,"end":45.078,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":61.184,"end":65.126,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":83.453,"end":87.754,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":108.106,"end":135.424,"text":"那我就跟你講你說要被二級毒品啊這個有有做到上司煙彈這個很多都是在學校啊學生啊年輕人啊一般的刑事犯罪一般的什麼這是比較困難的去校園在校園外然後賣給學生的這些藥頭我覺得不難吧"},{"start":137.148,"end":165.187,"text":"你們應該有重點去查緝啊我那時候有要求啊那你們對不對我半年前就要求了你們也就跟我講結果咧今天有更多的立委在大家看到了這個問題我半年前就提醒你們了結果咧這個半年你看更氾濫啊對不對如果今天這麼多立委也都在質詢更氾濫了"},{"start":167.594,"end":196.861,"text":"我只有一句話就是說年輕人很多人他都是賣給年輕人跟學校學生這個是很好查的啦很好去抓藥頭的啦你們應該要把重點放在這裡啦不要再講那些有的沒有的啦你們把這些抓起來這些藥頭我認為這個上司這個這個煙檔我跟你講就少了一半流通了啦"},{"start":198.133,"end":225.123,"text":"這點你們應該要去做嘛我半年前就講了嘛對不對我要請你們好好的做一下好不好好沒問題好謝謝那另外啊齁這個部長啊我們現在啊齁如果是社宅啊齁如果啦齁我簡單說啦就是有一個小孩的啊齁他齁可以6年啦齁可以再延長但有兩個的小孩的可以12年嘛"},{"start":226.138,"end":227.761,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":241.994,"end":246.476,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":260.029,"end":264.17,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":283.914,"end":285.755,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":315.833,"end":335.288,"text":"那個早上蘇巧惠委員也有質詢我們上次有辦會刊去看那個淹水的部分一個很有趣的問題新北市政府講了一大堆什麼什麼的然後我記得我們有要去看福州地區的淹水"},{"start":336.008,"end":363.846,"text":"新北市政府說他們要做蓄水池啊然後要去借學校的場地啊我就覺得很奇怪啊他借的場地是我們國立的華僑中學我就去問校長啦他說沒有啊他們連公文什麼都沒有啊然後簡報上面說他們已經借好了跟學校都取得用地了"},{"start":365.24,"end":387.666,"text":"連公文都沒有發阿我如果不是後面去查去問阿咱怎麼會想說哇阿我們考什麼就給他放棄阿署長這種問題你們發生的多不多阿應該通常都是我們比較擔心的是計劃合了就到最後做不出來阿因為那個其實那個反而對整個執行率來講不是不是"},{"start":389.011,"end":390.773,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":404.231,"end":406.693,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":432.892,"end":436.734,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":455.509,"end":459.932,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":472.79,"end":473.591,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1555,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（11時31分）來，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：張委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：部長，剛剛有好多位委員質詢到喪屍煙彈的問題，我大概在半年之前就有質詢過了，而且我有具體的要求，那不知道，我具體的要求你們現在做得怎麼樣？"],["劉部長世芳：是喪屍煙彈的部分？"],["張委員宏陸：對。可以請署長回答。"],["張署長榮興：跟委員報告，關於喪屍煙彈，我們在今年8月5日公布為三級毒品，那時候我們就感覺很嚴重，所以我們在監偵狀態期間就加強查緝。在113年7月1日到10月14日為止，這段期間我們查獲的依托咪酯……"],["張委員宏陸：我沒有叫你跟我講這些，我剛剛請問的是，我在這邊質詢，我具體的要求你們做了什麼，做到了沒？"],["張署長榮興：警方的部分就是負責去查緝，那現在就是說，依托咪酯要提升為二級毒品，明天法務部會召開毒防會議，這是第一個。","第二個部分，如果使用喪屍煙彈再駕車是屬於毒駕，那衛福部的食藥署現在公布這一些標準值就會做為毒駕的標準。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，我不是要給你考試，但我剛剛問你說我那時候具體的要求，我看你一時間也不知道我具體的要求是什麼。那我就跟你講，你說要變二級毒品，這個有做到，但是喪屍煙彈很多使用者都是在學校的學生、年輕人，一般的刑事犯罪要去查緝比較困難，去校園查在校園外賣給學生喪屍煙彈的這些藥頭，我覺得不難吧？你們應該要重點去查緝，我那時候有要求你們，對不對？我半年前就要求了，結果今天又有更多的立委看到，大家看到了這個問題，我半年前就提醒你們了，結果呢？這半年，你看更泛濫，對不對？如果今天這麼多立委也都在質詢這個問題，表示毒品更泛濫了，我只有一句話，很多都是賣給年輕人跟學校學生，這個是很好查的，藥頭很好抓，你們應該要把重點放在這裡，不要再講那些有的沒有的。你們把這些藥頭抓起來，我認為喪屍煙彈就少了一半的流通，這一點你們應該要去做，我半年前就講了，對不對？我要請你們好好地做一下，好不好？"],["張署長榮興：好，沒問題。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。","另外，部長，我簡單說，現在社宅租戶如果有一個小孩的話，租約6年可以再延長，但有兩個小孩的可以租12年，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：是。我知道。"],["張委員宏陸：若租戶現在有一個小孩，但他在租社宅的過程當中又生了第二個、第三個，結果他要重新再申請一次。"],["劉部長世芳：雖然他重新再來，他的6年期間並沒有取消掉。"],["張委員宏陸：是，是，是。6年沒有掉，但是他如果有兩個、三個小孩，可以延長到12年。當然他申請的時候是用一個小孩的條件來申請，但過程中間有變化，那有兩個小孩的就可以租12年。我也知道社宅的量沒有那麼多，是以契約的精神，不過以我們一直要鼓勵生育率，一直說要朝照顧小孩子的角度來講，我覺得這個是不是可以有檢討的空間？"],["劉部長世芳：我們可以來檢討，但是他對於房型是不是沒有堅持？"],["張委員宏陸：他如果原來的，就……"],["劉部長世芳：因為兩個人住的跟四個人住的不太一樣。"],["張委員宏陸：我的意思就是，他如果要繼續租，當然不能換房型，對不對？他自己要享受這個便利，也不能要人家馬上就換一個給他，我覺得這是有一個檢討的部分。"],["劉部長世芳：是。所以我們會來檢討。"],["張委員宏陸：好。謝謝部長。","署長，早上蘇巧慧委員也有質詢，我們上次有辦會勘，去看淹水的部分，有一個很有趣的問題，新北市政府講了一大堆，我記得我們有要去看浮洲地區的淹水，新北市政府說他們要做蓄水池，然後要去借學校的場地。我就覺得很奇怪，借的場地是國立華僑中學，所以我就去問校長，他說沒有，連公文都沒來，什麼都沒有，然後簡報上面說他們已經借好了，跟學校取得用地了，卻連公文都沒有，我如果不是後面去查去問，我們去考察不就被騙了。署長，這種問題發生的多不多？"],["吳署長欣修：通常我們比較擔心的是計畫核了，結果到最後做不出來，因為那個反而對整個執行率來講……"],["張委員宏陸：不是，不是。借土地，連公文都還沒有，你計畫核了，他一定做不出來的啊。"],["吳署長欣修：對。我們最擔心的就是這種情形。"],["張委員宏陸：不是啊！是你被騙了，我們去考察的立委也都被騙了。"],["吳署長欣修：這個我們會再來追查，看是不是有確認。因為這個在短期內會涉及前瞻，前瞻只到明年，我們不希望在最後一年就又發生這一件事情，這個部分我們會來追查。"],["張委員宏陸：我舉這個例子，是要跟你說，不知道有多少縣市是這樣子來跟你要錢的，對不對？什麼都沒有，你們也是書面審查，你也沒有辦法去一個一個看，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：對。了解。這個同意函，我們會來追查一下。"],["張委員宏陸：你不知道被騙了多少，你知道嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：我們為什麼常常要滾動檢討？滾動檢討就是，你真的做不到，我要趕快把你換掉。不過因為剛好明年是最後一年，有時候就會喪失機會了。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得你們除了滾動檢討之外，你們應該也要定出一個規定，對於用不實的資料來跟中央要錢的縣市，這個縣市下次要錢應該要打折扣，除了從嚴審查之外，如果有在作假，補助要減少。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["張委員宏陸：不然每個人都騙你，反正錢要到了，執行率怎麼樣他也不管，對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["張委員宏陸：好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["張委員宏陸：你們可不可以檢討一下？"],["吳署長欣修：可以。我們會來檢討這一類的案件。感謝委員，因為明年剛好是最後一年，這個地方有嚴審的必要性。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["吳署長欣修：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。我們感謝張宏陸召委質詢。","請林德福委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156841","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156841","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66785079e2a2a4d4f00775ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892cc89ebdc37aa605965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:21:53 - 11:30:55","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:21:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:30:55+08:00","duration":542,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.494093750000001,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.810343750000001,"end":10.274093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.40909375,"end":11.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.960968750000003,"end":34.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.40534375,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.26971875,"end":48.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.900968750000004,"end":57.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.01346875,"end":67.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.83909375,"end":68.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.88534375,"end":83.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.26034375,"end":73.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":92.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.00096875,"end":84.67596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.17346875000001,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.79346875,"end":90.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.03784375000001,"end":95.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.07096875,"end":99.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.47096875000001,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.20034375,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.97346875000001,"end":146.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.20221875000001,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.03909375,"end":164.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.10659375,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.15721875,"end":194.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.85284375,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.03409375,"end":231.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.69221875000002,"end":224.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.21909375,"end":227.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.24409375000002,"end":232.23096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.23096875000002,"end":232.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.24784375000002,"end":240.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.96409375000002,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.29221875000002,"end":245.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.39346875,"end":250.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.47784375,"end":246.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.03409375,"end":252.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.97034375,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.70784375,"end":268.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.91721875,"end":282.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.77596875,"end":293.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.58159375,"end":284.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.52534375,"end":292.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.91346875,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.96784375000004,"end":305.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.50784375,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.55721875,"end":307.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.56096875000003,"end":307.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.61159375,"end":307.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.66221875,"end":308.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.05034375,"end":309.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.18096875000003,"end":309.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.46784375000004,"end":309.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.77159375,"end":309.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.92346875000004,"end":309.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.99096875000004,"end":310.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.19346875,"end":310.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.44659375000003,"end":372.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.53409375,"end":382.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.11159375,"end":375.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.20784375000005,"end":428.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.28034375000004,"end":435.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.29221875,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.23284375000003,"end":436.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.97534375000004,"end":450.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.66221875,"end":443.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.49659375000005,"end":452.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.65659375,"end":460.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.01034375,"end":456.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.71034375000005,"end":459.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.02659375,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.81471875000005,"end":466.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.96221875000003,"end":468.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.31659375000004,"end":488.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.51159375000003,"end":510.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.38784375000006,"end":497.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.96534375000005,"end":501.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.02721875000003,"end":512.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.45284375,"end":537.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.2422187500001,"end":539.42346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.987,"end":9.978,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是請那個劉世芳劉部長請部長"},{"start":16.067,"end":37.757,"text":"許委員長好部長好我想剛剛很多委員都在關心就是我們有一個在議政業務下面的全社會防衛任性訓練工作的一個計畫今年因為編列了4億1064萬6千元那請問部長這個全社會防衛任性訓練工作主要是要做些什麼"},{"start":38.337,"end":38.798,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":62.861,"end":67.925,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":90.885,"end":99.424,"text":"三億三千零四四萬三億三千零四四萬六千元因為預算書是上面是寫三億兩千八百三十四萬五千元是吼"},{"start":105.013,"end":124.144,"text":"針對這個部分我想那是我等一下要請教這個部長的我現在想要了解的是說我們這個全社會防衛任性訓練計畫除了剛剛提到的民防的訓練場地之外那請問這個訓練完成之後我想其實很多委員很關心的就是說未來會不會支援軍事行動不會"},{"start":125.185,"end":127.086,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":155.305,"end":157.667,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":183.762,"end":208.634,"text":"維持社會民生核心功能的持續運作還有必要時支援軍事行動這三大目標請問這個部分的話請問賴總統提的我們要怎麼達成報告委員您所說的這三大目標也就是我們民防法裡面所規範的這個條文內容所以第一個維持政府的正常運作就是像我剛剛所說的第一個治安的維護還有防救災的維護"},{"start":209.775,"end":211.416,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":229.264,"end":230.825,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":245.399,"end":247.82,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":269.366,"end":270.427,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":286.966,"end":290.909,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":310.643,"end":328.676,"text":"因為其實當然這個部分的話就是我們希望的是說不要這個如果真的現在是有議政司那如果是要提供給民間的話希望也不要說只有給特定的單位希望如果未來有這樣的狀況的話我們希望說不要變成有給特定單位希望還是有議政司這邊來處理"},{"start":330.077,"end":331.218,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":350.68,"end":352.221,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":372.198,"end":395.277,"text":"今天資料就會提供給委員因為禮拜一來前我們會把這個成本的這個這個效益的分析做個分析今天資料就會提供給委員那另外就是說在這個部分我其實上次署長來我有跟署長提到也要請部長了解一下就是說這一次的這個建制費用是第一年是42億嘛明年還有可能要支付更高的這個經費給"},{"start":396.718,"end":425.701,"text":"三大電信公司作為一個網路流量記錄保存平台也就是說可能兩年加起來可能就幾乎要上百億那本席是認為就是這些業者是拿著政府所賦予的專屬的權利在賺錢而且以去年來說他們三家公司的盈利就高達5000億元所以是不是請問一下部長他們不應該協助政府來負起他們該有的社會責任嗎?為什麼我們建置這樣的流量的平台"},{"start":426.361,"end":443.774,"text":"還要付將近100億的費用。報告委員,它其實不是一個平台,它是一個機具。是流量保存的一個紀錄品。這些全部都是由我們的官方單位,包括警政,或者是包括法務,或是包括海巡在內。"},{"start":444.394,"end":446.055,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":467.045,"end":471.029,"text":"三大電信平臺,基本上他們是不是應該有這樣的一個社會責任,應該要把這個我覺得要建制的費用降低,而不該說錢是他們在賺,然後防詐騙其實說實在防詐騙是我們現在很極力想要做的,可是這部分他們卻沒有負起這樣的社會責任,是不是這個費用能夠要求三大平臺再把它降低?"},{"start":488.747,"end":509.723,"text":"其實我們未來還是會走這個公共工程的這個採購的方式這個我們會要求用這樣的方式要考慮到公益性考慮到這個公益跟必要的部分不要說只為了賺錢那因為這三大業者其實也是幫助我們在處理這個網路的這個詐騙上面非常重要的一環所以我想他們很了解這個的必要性對"},{"start":510.444,"end":538.664,"text":"我想這個部分我們的目的是希望說打、打詐是我想今年通過大家都極力想要做那打詐的經費今年也編的很多可是我們覺得錢要花在刀口上那尤其是我們的這個三大經營公司他們賺了這麼多錢我們希望他善盡社會責任那能夠把這個部分的費用降低那也希望說大家一起來共同的來預防打詐那警政署很辛苦但是我覺得這個部分也要大家全力共同來支持好嗎好那再請部長謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1510,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時22分）謝謝主席，請劉世芳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好。剛剛很多委員都在關心役政業務下面的全社會防衛韌性訓練工作計畫，今年編列了4億1,064萬元，請問部長，全社會防衛韌性訓練工作主要是要做些什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：是。全社會防衛韌性跟以前的民防法或替代役管理辦法訓練的方式一樣，都是在加強培訓的作業，只不過培訓作業的內容，我們希望能夠更現代化，不要像以前，讓很多人覺得是做靜態受訓，好像去那邊是浪費時間，所以我們會強化培訓的內容。至於為什麼會編列那麼多經費，最主要是在於，我們剛剛跟很多委員報告過，中州那裡是要給內政部當替代役的訓練中心，所以土地的價購經費，還有房舍跟校舍原來建築的改建經費比較高，其實其他的訓練經費都跟原來的差不多。"],["許委員宇甄：這邊大概就3億2,834萬5,000元嘛？"],["劉部長世芳：好像超過。"],["許委員宇甄：剛才提到的民防訓練場地是3億2,834萬元……"],["劉部長世芳：3億3,044萬6,000元。"],["許委員宇甄：預算書上面是寫3億2,834萬5,000元。這個部分是我等一下要請教部長的，我現在想要了解的是，這個全社會防衛韌性訓練計畫，除了剛剛提到的民防的訓練場地之外，很多委員很關心訓練完成之後，未來會不會支援軍事行動？"],["劉部長世芳：不會。"],["許委員宇甄：不會？"],["劉部長世芳：不會。我跟委員再重申一次，第一個，外界對它的想像太豐富，既然是民力的訓練，是在防衛，第一個，我們跟委員報告過，譬如關鍵基礎設施是由保二總隊在幫忙，那現在所訓練的部分也必須要加強。另外就是消防的部分，面對大規模的天災，除了我們原來的警消單位以外，包括義消，還有未來的替代役，包括在救災或救護的工作上面，或者是治安的維護上面，我們希望這部分民力能夠加入，但是現在還是僅止於在訓練而已。"],["許委員宇甄：是。那請教一下部長，為什麼大家都會有這樣的質疑？主要就是因為賴總統召開全社會防衛韌性委員會的時候有提到，他要確保國家發生災難的時候能做到三大目標，就是維持政府的運作、維持社會民生核心功能持續運作，還有必要時支援軍事行動這三大目標，請問賴總統提的三大目標，我們要怎麼達成？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，您所說的這三大目標，也就是民防法所規範的條文內容，所以第一個目標維持政府的正常運作，就是像我剛剛所說的治安的維護和防救災的維護，還有民間單位不要有混亂的狀況，大家都知道。還有維持政府的正常功能，也就是油、電、糖、水設備，輸電、輸水等狀況一定要維持功能。"],["許委員宇甄：部長的意思就是，這個是民防法裡面規定的。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["許委員宇甄：必要時支援軍事行動。"],["劉部長世芳：因為有特別寫到「必要時」，臺灣是一個憲政的國家，必要時的話，一定要由總統或立法院……"],["許委員宇甄：所以全社會防衛韌性訓練工作並沒有包括必要時支援這個部分，是嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：在內政部所主政的範圍內，到目前為止並沒有受軍事勤務這方面的訓練。"],["許委員宇甄：好。另外再請教一下部長，剛剛提到民防訓練場地第一期的花費就要三億多，剛剛有提到，中州科大這個場地，將來可能是做為替代役的訓練中心。做為替代的訓練中心之外，還會有做其他的訓練的作用嗎？會不會由內政部的同仁來負責訓練？"],["劉部長世芳：現在就是內政部的役政司跟替管中心在做，然後跟委員報告，中州科大的退場校地的購置跟建築物的改建是一次性的，不是以後這樣做，是一次性的。"],["許委員宇甄：之後的訓練工作都是由役政司統一來負責？"],["劉部長世芳：對。根據民防跟替代役的實施管理辦法，全部都是由內政部的役政司和替代役管理訓練中心來負責。"],["許委員宇甄：所以不會委託給民間單位去做訓練？"],["劉部長世芳：目前沒有這樣子的規劃，也沒有這樣的想法。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分現在是由役政司負責，如果提供給民間的話，希望不要只有給特定的單位，如果未來有這樣的狀況，我們希望不要變成給特定單位，希望還是由役政司來處理。","另外，還要再請教部長一個問題，警政署在114年度預算增加了72億8,585萬元，其中光是設備跟投資經費就編列了55億1,601萬元，請問一下部長，因為警政署有說這筆費用主要是用在科技系統的偵辦建置上，也就是網路科技運用的精進計畫，目前我們看到裡面並沒有概算分析表，大概2頁的文字就有55億的預算，我也有跟警政署要相關的資料，不過還沒有提供，請問一下部長這個部分……"],["張署長榮興：今天資料就會提供給委員。我們會做成本效益的分析，今天資料就會提供給委員。"],["許委員宇甄：今天就會給？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝警政署。","另外，在這個部分，上次署長來，我有跟署長提到，也要請部長瞭解一下，這一次的建置費用第一年是42億，明年還有可能要支付更高的經費給三大電信公司，做一個網路流量紀錄保存平台。也就是兩年加起來可能就幾乎要上百億，本席認為這些業者是拿著政府所賦予的專屬權利在賺錢，而且以去年來說，他們三家公司的營利就高達5,000億元。請問部長，他們不應該協助政府來負起他們該有的社會責任嗎？為什麼我們建置這樣的流量平台還要付將近100億的費用？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，它其實不是一個平台，它是一個機具，很多的系統……"],["許委員宇甄：是流量保存的紀錄品。"],["劉部長世芳：這些全部都是由我們的官方單位，包括警政、法務或海巡在內，裡面包括內容存取或其他的網路設計的部分，全部都是由我們……"],["許委員宇甄：對，這個設備是三大電信公司的。"],["劉部長世芳：但是三大電信業者要協助我們去購買這些硬體設備，因為他們比較知道裡面後台或前台在處理的時候怎麼處理比較好。"],["許委員宇甄：本席的意思是，這個部分既然是三大電信平台的，基本上他們是不是應該有這樣的社會責任？我覺得應該要把建置的費用降低，而不應該是錢是他們在賺。再說到防詐騙，說實在的，防詐騙是我們現在很極力想要做的，可是這個部分他們卻沒有負起這樣的社會責任，是不是這個費用能夠要求三大平台再降低？"],["劉部長世芳：是。其實我們未來還是會走公共工程的採購方式，我們會要求用這樣的方式，要考慮到公益性，考慮到公益跟必要的部分，不要只為了賺錢。因為這三大業者其實也是幫助我們處理網路詐騙非常重要的一環，所以我想他們很了解這個的必要性。"],["許委員宇甄：對。這個部分，我們的目的是希望打詐，打詐相關法律今年通過，大家都極力想要做，打詐的經費今年編得很多，可是我們覺得錢要花在刀口上，尤其是我們的三大電信公司，他們賺了這麼多錢，我們希望他們善盡社會責任，能夠把這個部分的費用降低，也希望大家一起來共同打詐。雖然警政署很辛苦，但是我覺得這個部分也要大家全力共同來支持，好嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：好，那就請部長加油。謝謝。"],["主席（王委員美惠代）：謝謝。我們感謝許宇甄委員質詢。","現在請張宏陸召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156839","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156839","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678fe3d66fdb969fa7d06c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86beefeab28909cd25ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"12:44:26 - 12:51:55","影片長度":"00:07:29","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:44:26+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:51:55+08:00","duration":449,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5072187500000003,"end":5.042843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.464718750000001,"end":6.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.860343750000002,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.855968750000002,"end":16.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.51346875,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.69409375,"end":23.672843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.48284375,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.03034375,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.67034375,"end":50.149718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.453468750000006,"end":50.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.487218750000004,"end":62.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.34284375,"end":58.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.88221875000001,"end":61.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.62034375,"end":63.51471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.09284375000001,"end":63.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.22346875000001,"end":64.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.84784375000001,"end":66.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.91096875000001,"end":69.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.13409375,"end":70.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.41659375,"end":70.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.66534375,"end":72.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.15471875,"end":72.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.37409375,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.69471875,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.84659375000001,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.94784375,"end":74.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.49596875,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.98471875,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.92096875,"end":83.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.97534375000001,"end":86.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.26221875,"end":110.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.82971875000001,"end":99.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.52409375,"end":112.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.60409375,"end":112.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.62096875,"end":112.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.85721875,"end":168.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.78846875,"end":120.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.36721875,"end":143.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.84846875000002,"end":175.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.00346875000002,"end":180.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.57659375,"end":182.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.97284375,"end":213.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.95971875,"end":235.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.35784375,"end":231.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.72409375,"end":236.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.74096875,"end":239.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.18346875,"end":244.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.54971875,"end":254.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.86471875,"end":260.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.02409375,"end":260.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.80034375,"end":266.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.57159375000003,"end":266.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.79096875,"end":270.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.80784375,"end":266.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.09409375,"end":306.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.39284375,"end":277.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.56221875,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.51471875000004,"end":316.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.48846875000004,"end":313.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.87596875,"end":317.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.02784375000005,"end":319.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.13721875000005,"end":320.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.41971875,"end":341.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.32784375,"end":350.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.32221875000005,"end":350.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.60909375,"end":359.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.70471875000004,"end":362.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.92784375,"end":367.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.95659375,"end":369.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.11659375000005,"end":370.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.21784375000004,"end":382.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.53659375,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":427.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.54221875,"end":428.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.41971875,"end":448.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.17846875000004,"end":433.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.26284375,"end":433.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.46534375000005,"end":433.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.12159375000005,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.48409375000006,"end":448.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.97346875000005,"end":449.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.47971875,"end":449.96909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.91,"end":29.702,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請部長請黃部長部長好 部長我看了我們的預算裡面就是有對於海嵐站增設有五千多萬那對於我們亞灣2.0新型人才的需求也多編了兩千多萬"},{"start":31.089,"end":35.596,"text":"然後呢我們要吸引國際大廠到我國也變了十幾億沒關係"},{"start":39.795,"end":68.821,"text":"那大致上就是說我想請教一下上一次那個數位數化部有開會就是說大概一個月之內會聽出那個計畫嗎?現在大概一個月了?超過了?就是我們本來那個就是11月22號我們會有個會本來是在11月22本來10月底因為颱風所以已經到11月22號我會親自主持那個會議在台南在哪裡?在沙崙我們的辦公室沙崙那邀請的對象都決定了嗎?"},{"start":69.561,"end":89.449,"text":"應該都決定了那個包括委員的辦公室都要跟那個部長報告一下這個其實我已經跟高雄市政府也提過那個羅副市長他們也覺得有一些興趣那我想就是說是不是整體來講就是說我們這個海嵐站"},{"start":92.99,"end":109.742,"text":"那將來那個地方包括那個有可能是不是有資料中心或者是一些數位那個超級電腦等等的啦那基本上就是說這個規劃我是希望說部長可以規劃比較"},{"start":111.601,"end":135.178,"text":"整體性的比較整體性的就是說我今天台南站他只是一個入口今天我就是有一個數位港口讓數位進來讓全世界的數位跟資料可以進來這是一個大的概念但是呢進來以後他可能還要連接IDC或者是連接就是高雄有相關的"},{"start":135.899,"end":140.264,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算：許智傑"},{"start":157.443,"end":179.558,"text":"那現在要做亞灣2.0那亞灣2.0事實上就是說包括我們人才的培育那另外我們數法部還有一個就是國發會會編給我們的就是補助這個AI應用的一些預算那上一次我有提過就是說我們的預算就"},{"start":180.663,"end":180.883,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":199.864,"end":225.496,"text":"如果這樣子可以給他們多一點加分的機會的話我想對於城市的規劃跟發展會更完整所以這相關的這一些配套措施不知道我們數發部現在準備的怎麼樣就是有一些剛剛講委員這個數位港這個我們都非常支持那在11月20號就是把這個討論完那剛剛講就是說當然你們這個很重要一個角色在包括高雄市政府"},{"start":225.996,"end":253.876,"text":"那因為這個東西我們可以規劃設計但後面要有人去維運跟引運那所以這個東西就是我們在22號的時候看怎麼去進行這件事情那你們提前沒有跟市政府有任何的接觸嗎目前還沒有但是就是我們希望就是22號大家有一個至少有一個下一步要做的一些事情那我們希望當然能夠盡早能拿那個就是說大家能夠同意以後再看怎麼樣進行下一步"},{"start":253.916,"end":259.756,"text":"我是這樣建議啦就是說我們其實做事情主動跟被動那個差距就很大"},{"start":262.783,"end":281.631,"text":"蘇發部這裡就是說基本上你們的職責不是設硬體所以你會覺得說這個好像不是我們蘇發部的業務但是呢這又是蘇發部將來要發展的重要的基礎的建設關鍵的基礎設施所以這個部分我認為說我們蘇發部應該主動一點是不是請師長跟市府那邊聯絡一下"},{"start":287.734,"end":305.921,"text":"彼此之間溝通一下交流一下意見那也許他想到的或我們想到有彼此沒有想到的地方那如果正好在談的時候就可以先去做一個初步的互相的了解那你這樣子去開會的時候才會有效率要不然去再問啊問一問又沒有準備啊沒有準備到時候又拉倒"},{"start":306.661,"end":333.986,"text":"那就很可惜所以是不是部長可以跟市長建議一下就是說先做一個那個那叫做先期作業嘛所以你要開會之前先做一個先期作業這個馬上會進行好對不對那讓彼此多一點了解其實數位數位數位這邊有經費可以協助他們其實地方政府最怕的就是沒有經費啦他們其實人啦意願啦其實都蠻高的但是他們就是最怕就是沒有經費"},{"start":335.226,"end":349.402,"text":"如果這個部分可以讓他們心裡有個底﹑或者是他們在做這個規劃的時候可以瞭解數﹑發布將來整體的這些連接的配套大概是怎麼樣那他要提出這個計畫也比較能夠match我們的計畫"},{"start":350.723,"end":370.348,"text":"包括我們就是這裡面還包括我們要再額外去爭取經費因為這個金額跟剛剛講那個是不一樣的工作所以我們會跟高雄市政府討論然後看怎麼去爭取更多經費對所以你看喔那個部長你看我看這一個書面我們就看到海嵐站那你又說不是這個經費你懂我意思嗎"},{"start":371.508,"end":395.515,"text":"那我們突然看到你寫的這個預算有關於海南站的經費我們就會覺得這很好啊那你現在又不能使用在這個海南站上那它是使用在哪裡委員可能誤會這是海南站有海南站補助的經費那是數位港剛剛委員我們一直討論是數位港跟高雄市政府這部分的不管是可行性評估還是未來的建置這我們還另外再爭取"},{"start":396.435,"end":421.384,"text":"對,所以我是建議啦就是說市長可以撥個時間先彼此的了解啦你看你這樣子寫恐怕市政委員會看他說欸這個好像可以啊對不對但是你的想法又跟實際上的不一樣那他要寫計畫的時候總是要媚取我們國家的方向這樣子他寫計畫才會跟我們一致嘛那你讓市府跟數位部、數發部能夠先有一致的想法"},{"start":421.724,"end":421.744,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":980,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（12時44分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：許委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長好。部長，我看了你們的預算，對於海纜站增設有五千多萬，對於我們亞灣2.0新型人才的需求也多編了二千多萬，然後我們要吸引國際大廠到我國也編了十幾億，沒關係，大致上就是我想請教一下，上一次數發部開會說大概一個月之內會訂定出那個計畫，現在大概一個月了，超過了。"],["黃部長彥男：我們在11月22號會有個會，本來是在10月底……"],["許委員智傑：11月22號？"],["黃部長彥男：對，本來10月底，因為颱風所以延到11月22號，我會親自主持那個會議，在臺南……"],["許委員智傑：在哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：在沙崙，我們的辦公室。"],["許委員智傑：沙崙喔，請問邀請的對象都決定了嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：應該都決定了，包括委員的辦公室都有邀請。"],["許委員智傑：OK，跟部長報告一下，其實我已經跟高雄市政府也提過，羅副市長他們也覺得有一些興趣。以整體來講，關於這個海纜站，將來那個地方有可能是不是會有資料中心或者是一些超級電腦等等的，基本上，對於這個部分的規劃，我是希望部長可以規劃的比較整體性，就是海纜站只是一個入口，今天就是有一個數位港口讓全世界的數位跟資料可以進來，這是一個大的概念。但是進來以後可能還要連接IDC，或者是連接高雄有數位數據相關的一些設備，包括像輝達跟鴻海，他們那邊也買了七、八十部的超級電腦。然後在亞灣這裡，其實我們本來亞洲新灣區5G AIoT已經有滿大的進步，現在要做亞灣2.0，亞灣2.0事實上就包括我們人才的培育。另外數發部還有國發會會編給我們補助AI應用的一些預算，上一次我有提過，我們的預算就一般給民間的公司嘛，但是如果他可以取得跟政府機關的合作或者是簽MOU等等類似這樣的概念，正好城市發展有需要，然後他能夠配合國家的政策，又能配合城市發展的方向，這樣就可以給他們多一點加分的機會的話，我想對於城市的規劃跟發展會更完整，所以相關的這些配套措施，不知道我們數發部現在準備得怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛委員講的這個數位港我們都非常支持，在11月22號就是會把這個東西討論完，剛剛講的就是說，當然裡面很重要的一個角色是高雄市政府，因為這個東西我們可以規劃設計，但後面要有人去維運跟營運，所以這個東西我們在22號的時候看怎麼去進行這件事情，所以我想……"],["許委員智傑：你們提前沒有跟市政府有任何的接觸嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：目前還沒有，但是我們希望在22號大家至少討論下一步要做的一些事情，我們希望能夠儘早，就是大家能夠同意以後，再看怎麼樣進行下一步。"],["許委員智傑：我是這樣建議，其實我們做事情主動跟被動的差距就很大，當然，以數發部來說，基本上你們的職責不是設硬體，所以你會覺得這個好像不是數發部的業務，但是這又是數發部將來要發展的重要基礎建設、關鍵基礎設施，所以這個部分我認為數發部應該主動一點，是不是請司長跟市府那邊聯絡一下，彼此之間溝通一下、交流一下意見，也許他想到的或我們想到的，有彼此沒有想到的地方，如果正好在談的時候，就可以先去做一個初步的、互相的了解，這樣子去開會的時候才會有效率，要不然去了才問，問一問又沒有準備，沒有準備到時候又拉倒，那就很可惜，所以是不是部長可以跟司長建議一下，就是先做一個先期作業，你要開會之前先做一個先期作業……"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個馬上會進行。"],["許委員智傑：讓彼此多一點了解，其實數發部這邊有經費可以協助，而地方政府最怕的就是沒有經費，他們其實在人、在意願上都滿高的，但是他們最怕的就是沒有經費，如果這部分可以讓他們心裡有個底，或者是他們還在做規劃的時候可以了解，數發部將來整體這些連接的配套大概是怎麼樣，他要提出這個計畫也比較能夠match我們的計畫嘛。"],["黃部長彥男：對，報告委員，這裡面還包括我們要再額外去爭取經費，因為這個金額跟剛剛講的那部分是不一樣的工作，所以我們會跟高雄市政府討論，然後看怎麼樣去爭取更多經費來做這個事情。"],["許委員智傑：對，所以部長，我看你這個書面就看到海纜站，那你又說不是這個經費，你懂我的意思嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["許委員智傑：我們突然看到你寫的這一個預算，有關於海纜站的經費，我們就會覺得這很好，那你現在又不能使用在這一個海纜站上，那它是使用在哪裡？"],["鄭司長明宗：委員可能誤會了，海纜站有海纜站補助的經費，那是數位港，剛剛委員和我們一直在討論的是數位港跟高雄市政府這部分的，不管是可行性評估還是未來的建置，這個我們還要另外再爭取。"],["許委員智傑：對，所以我是建議，司長可以撥個時間先彼此了解，你看你這樣子寫，恐怕市政府一看到會說，欸，這個好像可以喔，對不對？但是你的想法又跟實際上的不一樣，那他要寫計畫的時候總是要match我們國家的方向，這樣子他寫計畫才會跟我們一致嘛。你讓市府跟數發部能夠先有一致的想法，也許彼此在寫計畫或彼此在規劃配套的時候就會更完整嘛，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個沒有問題。"],["許委員智傑：這個拜託，這是我們非常重大的建設，希望務必要完成。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["許委員智傑：雖然不是你們負責的業務，但是這個將來跟你們所有的業務都有很重大的相關，你今天沒有push這個完成，後面很多事情都不能做，所以希望我們數發部可以主動一點，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["許委員智傑：好來把這一件事情完成。謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好。謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員。接下來邀請楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在現場。","接下來邀請王美惠委員，王美惠委員，王美惠委員，王美惠委員不在現場。","接下來邀請高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在現場。","接下來邀請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156837","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156837","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678acceaf25a3364b7856f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be4c7f6e4539bc04505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:46:57 - 12:52:56","影片長度":"00:05:59","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:46:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:52:56+08:00","duration":359,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.64659375,"end":3.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.1822187500000005,"end":4.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.705343750000001,"end":6.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.708468750000002,"end":12.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.585968750000003,"end":15.707843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.450343750000002,"end":17.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.20971875,"end":35.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.34284375,"end":29.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.68346875,"end":37.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.932218750000004,"end":39.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.88971875,"end":41.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.45909375,"end":47.922218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.96534375,"end":42.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.27659375,"end":54.672218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.001593750000005,"end":56.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.84909375,"end":57.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.55784375,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.17784375,"end":64.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.01659375,"end":67.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.27346875,"end":69.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.24346875,"end":79.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.23846875000001,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.61784375,"end":83.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.61284375000001,"end":88.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.64159375,"end":93.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.56471875000001,"end":95.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.16784375,"end":110.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.54096875,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.14409375000001,"end":113.95409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.59534375000001,"end":115.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.04659375000001,"end":129.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.51846875000001,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.20096875,"end":134.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.15346875,"end":136.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.32159375,"end":150.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.82659375,"end":147.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.69534375,"end":151.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.85534375,"end":151.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.90596875,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.97346875000002,"end":156.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.13721875000002,"end":162.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.05596875,"end":167.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.46034375000002,"end":178.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.02409375000002,"end":185.72346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.43221875,"end":192.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.90471875,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.58721875,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.81846875000002,"end":204.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.94409375,"end":214.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.15409375000002,"end":214.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.61346875,"end":214.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.23784375000002,"end":223.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.90721875000003,"end":227.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.67471875,"end":230.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.89784375000002,"end":232.06221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.97346875000002,"end":240.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.27596875,"end":245.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.01346875000002,"end":251.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.65846875000003,"end":272.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.43971875,"end":287.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.15471875000003,"end":300.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.37721875,"end":297.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.15721875,"end":300.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.62096875000003,"end":302.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.01721875000004,"end":318.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.23846875000004,"end":323.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.16596875000005,"end":339.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.79221875,"end":344.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.25971875000005,"end":357.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.36909375000005,"end":349.17471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.899,"end":13.337,"text":"主席有請部長好我們請財政部莊部長委員好部長請問你買過大樂透貨威利財嗎"},{"start":16.536,"end":34.628,"text":"蔣麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人"},{"start":36.735,"end":58.03,"text":"公布的獎額有沒有公布得獎人得獎人應該沒有沒有啊你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人還是很多民眾會去買都根本不知道誰得獎欸為什麼大家去買那當然去買的人都希望有一些希望嘛存有心中的一個美好的希望對啊我告訴你去買的人就是因為相信政府啦沒錯吧"},{"start":59.91,"end":66.724,"text":"如果說講希望的話我也可以再辦一個大樂透對不對大家來跟我買那中獎是我決定來誰中獎會有人來買嗎?"},{"start":71.474,"end":93.414,"text":"委員意思就是說政府在辦這一類的這樣的時候第一個很重要的就是誠信公開公正公平我覺得這個是一定要做到的所以我想部長你也知道我要質詢哪個題目啦我要特別講你們辦的那個雲端眾數區一起集點數的抽獎活動那現在已經在網路上是炸開很多人真的這件事情就是"},{"start":94.625,"end":115.359,"text":"足以潰體啊就是讓財政部的公信力受損的話那政府辦的任何抽獎大家都會質疑啊那我們再提出來這個就是有四位民眾重複中大獎那時候我跟財政部曾經質詢過這機率多少啊?機率多大?天文數字吧"},{"start":116.087,"end":132.904,"text":"我知道很多人去試算了一下,可能是什麼兆分之一啊,大家都在那邊試算,當然我覺得這個事情,這個廠商在這個程式的邏輯上,用很多的方式是有問題的來來來,然後你們說要去檢討嘛,我有看到你們檢討報告,那我想請問部長,你對這個檢討報告滿意嗎?"},{"start":138.41,"end":161.359,"text":"我們第一個就行政調查的部分我們做到第一個我們相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係包含三金等一類都不是我這樣講好了第二個就是說在他發票取得的部分我跟你講我就報告來跟你說是政府公信力三大基礎啦公平公正公開嘛對不對你的報告說吼廠商吼他沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式你辦個抽獎一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧"},{"start":168.51,"end":192.19,"text":"你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正第二個你又說他才調高積極參加者之全數值給予優先抽獎機會嘛對不對那怎麼調高我想第一我先問問廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式事前有讓財政部知道嗎你們同意嗎台北國稅局主辦這個我們也詢問過他並沒有告知台北國稅局對啊"},{"start":193.649,"end":203.886,"text":"你們也知道這會有問題的吧因為這會傷公信利的嘛然後第二個他可以採調高積極參加者的權值給予優先抽獎的機會他決定啦 對不對"},{"start":205.197,"end":231.187,"text":"對 所以這個部分我們認為這個有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯第三個 我覺得這個財政部報告最不能接受的地方你說每位抽獎者能否中獎取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數尚難計算其中獎率你財政部主辦的抽獎到時候你告訴人家中獎率你都算不出來那我想請問"},{"start":233.015,"end":245.334,"text":"那請問我怎麼相信你在後面的後台比如說我後台怎麼調抽獎方式就後台決定啊如果這一套模式是用在大樂透你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊"},{"start":247.042,"end":272.548,"text":"我們這個部分才請檢調去調查局去做調查我跟部長說啊檢調當然要去查可是這一個所謂的抽獎的整個的流程你事前沒有掌握然後呢事後的報告你寫的這種狀況我覺得就提油救火嘛網路上評價這個報告叫裝效為報告啊你知道嗎你根本沒有沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊"},{"start":273.55,"end":296.698,"text":"什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式他可以後台自己去調高所謂的所謂積極參加者那我就問嘛積極參加者什麼叫積極參加者到底多少張發票收集叫積極參加者部分我們去把它檢視它的程式以後我們誠實的去呈現也就是跟一般認為說這種隨機抽獎記錄最後我跟部長說我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分也請提票去調查提饋以穴"},{"start":304.056,"end":323.504,"text":"因為財政部不管是我們的發票對不對首獎一千萬動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的威力彩這些公益彩券其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦我相信政府的公益我覺得政府不會搞我嘛一定是公平公正嘛"},{"start":324.244,"end":344.369,"text":"可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動大家覺得你不公平不公正我當然就開始對政府產生懷疑啊我跟部長不客氣的講當我質詢這個題目上個禮拜的時候底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼公益彩券啊我們當然不樂見這種情形可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好"},{"start":345.305,"end":357.226,"text":"不能讓它再發生好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝郭子強委員那鄭振全、鄭振全、鄭振全委員不在那我們接著請洪曼凱委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1439,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時47分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：我們請財政部莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長，請問你買過大樂透或威力彩嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有耶！"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊，您作為公益彩券的主管機關，我建議你還是要買一下啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["羅委員智強：起碼體驗一下吧，你走到路口隨便一家去體驗，你是主管機關，總是要體驗一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["羅委員智強：請教大樂透跟威力彩有公布得獎人嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：公布的獎額……"],["羅委員智強：有沒有公布得獎人？"],["莊部長翠雲：得獎人應該沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊，那你知道為什麼沒有公布得獎人，還是很多民眾會去買，根本不知道誰得獎耶，為什麼大家去買？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然去買的人都有一些希望嘛，存著心中的一個美好的希望。"],["羅委員智強：希望啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊！"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，去買的人就是因為相信政府，沒錯吧？如果講希望的話，我也可以辦一個大樂透，對不對？大家來跟我買，中獎部分由我來決定誰中獎，那會有人來買嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員意思就是政府在辦這類事情的時候，第一個很重要的就是誠信、公開、公正、公平，我覺得這個是一定要做到。"],["羅委員智強：所以我想部長也知道我要質詢哪個題目，我要特別提到你們舉辦的「雲端種樹趣e起集點樹」抽獎活動，現在已經在網路上炸開，這件事情真的是足以潰堤，如果讓財政部公信力受損的話，那政府辦的任何抽獎活動，大家都會質疑啊。我們再提出來，有四位民眾重複中大獎，我曾經向財政部質詢這個機率有多大，請教機率多大？天文數字吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：我知道很多人去試算了一下，可能是什麼兆分之一或是多少，大家都在那邊試算。當然我覺得這個事情，廠商在這個程式的邏輯上，很多的方式是有問題。"],["羅委員智強：你們說要去檢討，我也看到你們的檢討報告，我想請問部長，你對這檢討報告滿意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個就行政調查的部分，我們做到相關的人員跟這些中獎人士沒有任何關係，包含三親等以內都不是。第二個就是有關發票取得的部分……"],["羅委員智強：我就報告來跟你說，政府公信力三大基礎就是公平、公正、公開，對不對？你的報告說廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎方式，你辦個抽獎，一般來說一定就是隨機抽獎吧！"],["莊部長翠雲：是啊！"],["羅委員智強：你不按一般隨機抽獎就是不公正。第二個，你又說他採調高積極參加者之權數值給予優先抽獎機會，對不對？那怎麼調高？廠商沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的方式，事前有讓財政部知道嗎？你們同意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個是由臺北國稅局主辦，我們也詢問過，他並沒有告知臺北國稅局。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！你們也知道這個有問題了吧！因為這會傷害公信力的嘛！第二個，他可以採調高積極參加者權值給予優先抽獎的機會，他決定啊！對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，所以這個部分我們認為有沒有什麼樣的不法行為在裡面，跟中獎者之間有沒有什麼關聯，這要調查局去做調查。"],["羅委員智強：第三個，我覺得這個是財政部報告最不能接受的地方啦！你說每位抽獎者能否中獎，取決於前開抽獎程式鎖定變數，尚難計算其中獎率。財政部主辦的抽獎，到最後你告訴我連中獎率你都算不出來，我想請問，我怎麼相信你那後面的後台，也就是說後台怎麼調，抽獎方式就後台決定啊！如果這一套模式是用在大樂透，你覺得大樂透會不會崩盤啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這個部分才請調查局去做調查。"],["羅委員智強：我跟部長說，檢調當然要去查，可是所謂抽獎的整個流程，你事前沒有掌握，然後事後的報告，你寫的這種狀況，我覺得就是提油救火嘛！網路上評價這個報告叫莊孝維報告啊！你知道嗎？你根本沒有辦法修補你財政部的公信力啊！什麼叫做沒有按照一般隨機抽獎的模式？他可以後台自己去調高所謂積極參加者，我就問嘛！什麼叫積極參加者？到底收集多少張發票叫積極參加者？"],["莊部長翠雲：針對這部分，我們去檢視他的程式以後，我們誠實的去呈現，也就是跟一般認為這種隨機抽獎的，我們非常誠實去呈現這個部分，也請檢調去調查。"],["羅委員智強：部長，最後跟您說堤潰蟻穴啦，不管是我們的發票首獎1,000萬元，或是動輒幾億的大樂透跟所謂的威力彩等這些公益彩券，其實人民之所以願意買只有一個原因啦！我相信政府的公信力，我覺得政府不會搞我嘛！一定是公平公正嘛！可是今天如果財政部自己主辦的抽獎活動，大家覺得你不公平、不公正，我當然就開始對政府產生懷疑啊！我跟部長不客氣地講，當我上個禮拜質詢這個題目的時候，底下留言一堆都是開始質疑什麼？公益彩券啊！我們當然不樂見這種情形，可是財政部這種事情不能再發生好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，不能讓它再發生，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅智強委員。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接著請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156855","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156855","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678440d399155f1bcd2370fa4497fc607c09d0efdd96610d28a56161e727e47ac5e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:18:28 - 10:26:50","影片長度":"00:08:22","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:18:28+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T10:26:50+08:00","duration":502,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.30471875,"end":6.966593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.64159375,"end":8.485343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.008468750000002,"end":9.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.544093750000002,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.662218750000001,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.277843750000002,"end":13.328468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.328468750000003,"end":13.345343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.345343750000001,"end":13.395968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.395968750000002,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.58159375,"end":13.665968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.57721875,"end":22.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.25534375,"end":23.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.57159375,"end":28.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.54534375,"end":44.580968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.71596875,"end":54.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.41909375,"end":55.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.634093750000005,"end":62.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.85659375,"end":69.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.23096875,"end":71.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.88471875,"end":72.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.39096875,"end":72.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.43721875,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.66909375,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.23409375,"end":83.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.57471875,"end":90.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.13909375,"end":96.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.18471875,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.37034375,"end":96.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.39909375000002,"end":135.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.73971875,"end":144.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.63284375,"end":149.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.64471875,"end":151.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.75409375,"end":152.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.53034375000001,"end":152.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.05346875,"end":153.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.08721875,"end":154.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.14596875,"end":181.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.58909375000002,"end":181.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.69034375,"end":184.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.57596875000002,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.18721875,"end":194.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.97096875000003,"end":195.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.00034375,"end":196.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.43471875,"end":208.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.94346875000002,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.79971875,"end":211.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.64346875,"end":212.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.97659375,"end":218.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.89971875,"end":219.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.28784375,"end":231.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.85971875,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.00284375,"end":237.15846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.64784375000002,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.93034375000002,"end":241.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.15346875,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.03784375,"end":281.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.70846875,"end":255.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.62846875,"end":281.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.38784375,"end":282.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.43409375000005,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.29034375000003,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.25596875,"end":291.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.49159375,"end":293.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.03159375,"end":299.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.11534375,"end":297.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.82409375000003,"end":298.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.34284375000004,"end":299.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.37659375000004,"end":299.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.39346875,"end":299.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.42721875,"end":299.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.96721875000003,"end":310.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.85159375,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.14659375,"end":316.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.36971875,"end":316.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.87159375000005,"end":319.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.08221875000004,"end":320.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.44909375000003,"end":322.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.31784375,"end":326.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.56221875,"end":329.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.08909375,"end":334.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.39221875000004,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.07534375,"end":345.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.03159375,"end":349.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.74846875000003,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.61721875,"end":355.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.65471875000003,"end":358.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.84409375,"end":392.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.59409375,"end":411.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.57846875,"end":417.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.43409375000005,"end":418.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.02034375000005,"end":434.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.91659375,"end":445.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.05409375000005,"end":451.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.14596875,"end":453.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.91784375000003,"end":455.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.28471875,"end":468.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.36284375,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.92784375,"end":471.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.68721875000006,"end":471.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.70409375,"end":479.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.63534375,"end":482.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.70659375,"end":497.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.77596875,"end":500.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.27346875,"end":502.11284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.371,"end":4.431,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":29.577,"end":29.857,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":44.787,"end":53.93,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 。但是我一直在想說這個權責如何去做劃分?我剛才很高興就剛才大家立委這樣問到了,補助啦。講的像我都講到這裡來。其實未來整個運動部不如政部長你先給他檢驗檢驗就好了啦。不然你看大家都可能要跟你討補助啦。你那個範圍裡面,你看你那個權責裡面也有衛福部的啦,也有原來你教育部的啦。"},{"start":73.556,"end":74.037,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":91.272,"end":91.953,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":112.828,"end":120.618,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 應該是專業分工跟專業來去解決而且更需要的是說你去釐清目前我們整個運動發展所面臨的具體的問題跟組織你的目標這些指引要出來以這一次來看"},{"start":128.442,"end":150.237,"text":"我們運動部你設立了這個新興運動組你負責去推動新興極限跟傳統民俗的運動那本時就要請教部長跟署長就是說這個新興運動組你到底想解決現階段什麼樣的一個問題你們到底現在想法有沒有很明確那夠不夠清晰什麼叫做新興運動"},{"start":151.778,"end":152.018,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一"},{"start":170.876,"end":174.977,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函審查．一）行政院函審查．一）行政院函審查．一）行政院函審查．一）行政院函審查．一）行政院函審查．"},{"start":197.543,"end":198.944,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一．一"},{"start":220.235,"end":231.185,"text":"行政院向海致敬政策發展部組織法草案。這是很好啦。你又自由潛水,你這個深度挑戰更算是一種極限運動的一種。你很難分啦。比例有這個就好了啦。你現在已經是奧運的項目了啦。"},{"start":238.951,"end":241.713,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 行政院審查．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":256.701,"end":279.93,"text":"我們在已經發展一個程度以上像帆船這樣子還有划船他們這樣一個水域的運動我們把它放在海洋山林這部分但是在比較花需要花更多的力氣去整合整個部會還有跟傳統協會之間的問題的時候我們先把它放在新興因為他們也是最近因為奧運或亞運剛進去所以才引起大家的注意但其實他們跟原來的傳統協會很多的問題存在署長免受騙啦講的都很好講啦"},{"start":284.309,"end":284.429,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案"},{"start":293.16,"end":312.013,"text":"報委員這在我們公共體育很常見不過還是要看首長以及主秘代做這個協調啦那當然啦那當然啦你現在你跟過去10年國內興起的運動多少啊你說滑板、飛盤、障礙的路跑甚至於攀岩、空中瑜伽、電競剛才幾個人問小人在跳繩的也都是啊全部也都是啊所以你注意把它看就是說如果說像比如剛剛大家問到的那個電競電競"},{"start":321.442,"end":321.942,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":347.076,"end":354.125,"text":"那這一些就補充這個你能回答嗎?老師去扒孩子國教署灌。阿以後教練來去扒球員,來扒這裡的運動員,阿這邊送上灌。"},{"start":358.908,"end":381.501,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 還是講到那個權責的一個問題啦。我一直認為說我們整個基層的體育班訓練跟基層教練的培養的一個責任範圍跟目標啊。這些我們都過去比較不足的一個地方啊。你要去健全最高層級的職業賽事的發展甚至國家隊的一個成績喔。你那個三級教育裡面本來就是扎根啊。我以籃球為例啦。"},{"start":384.683,"end":402.197,"text":"行州亞運拿下3對3金牌教練吳政傑老師講的就是我們的國小跟國中基礎養成的教育出現了偏差到最後變成受傷害的是大學階段跟職覽本土的一個球員。我們常常說區域聯防我們這個名字很聽到嘛這書裡面都清楚嘛基層就被廣泛使用到職業隊甚至到國家隊這戰術就是說你防守的人你就過去"},{"start":411.744,"end":412.585,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":435.098,"end":450.627,"text":"體育組這個地方應該可以找我們少年藍鞋跟高中體總一起來研議一下不然對整個未來的一個發展這觀念沒有去做一個釐清的話這個對以後的整個體育你說運動部成立以後觀念沒有跟上來很難講的"},{"start":455.297,"end":477.229,"text":"法務委員其實這個議題在國小籃球以及高中他們其實都開過會不過我覺得還有籃球也都開過會我覺得是會議主持人的問題啦我想這個部分我們會來召集他們來做比較明確的一個會議上的一個結論啦我覺得這很重要的啦你不要以為這個我其實這個也是為那種基層的教練在請命啦他們都非常辛苦啦還要顧問話還要顧成績對嗎還要未來還要賭在這裡"},{"start":483.202,"end":499.794,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 令他們有一點保障,然後我們整個基層的一個教育觀念沒有去先做一個釐清的話,這些沒有做改變的話,運動部成立齁,你做一件事也跟以前的問題一樣都沒辦法解決啦。好好思考一下啦,尤其是署長啦好不好。好,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":539,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時18分）謝謝召委，有請教育部鄭部長及體育署署長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長及體育署鄭署長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，你算很厲害，你看你來司法及法制委員會，你當過大學校長，沒幾個敢跟你裝瘋賣傻，但是我倒有幾個問題要請教，就是說運動部的成立，當然也不是因為三位總統候選人都不約而同提出這樣一個政見，最主要應該是我們到底想解決什麼、原來的問題是什麼、你想達到什麼樣的一個目標。我一直在想這個權責如何去劃分，我最擔心的就是剛才立委都問到的補助，發言的委員差不多都有提到這一點。其實未來整個運動部，不如鄭部長你再順便兼一兼好了，不然，你看大家都只是在跟你討補助，你看那個權責範圍裡面也有衛福部的，也有原來你教育部的，這個大雜燴以後要怎麼樣去分工？那個目標怎麼樣清晰？這很重要，我一直在想我今天問你到底是對還是不對，除非你要兼運動部部長，不然到時候你還是當教育部長，你回答這些都跟你沒關係的，我的感覺啦！所以署長，來，我想請教的就是說……"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：像運動部的成立當然要解決一些問題，其實本席一直強調的就是，我們其實是在回應我們過去所碰到的一些應該去改革的，然後延續整個體育的改革，回應外界大家對我們的看法，應該是專業分工跟專業解決，而且更需要的是，你要去釐清目前整個運動發展所面臨的具體問題及組織目標指引，以這一次來看，運動部設立的新興運動組負責去推動新興、極限及傳統民俗運動，本席請教部長跟署長，這個新興運動組到底想解決現階段什麼樣的問題？你們到底現在想法有沒有很明確？夠不夠清晰？什麼叫作新興運動？部長還是署長，這要怎麼區別？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我們在面對這些新興運動的部分，分兩個種類，一個是像自由潛水，它需要很多跨部會法令上面的統合，它們面臨這樣的問題，特別像保險之類的；像三對三籃球或者是霹靂舞與其他傳統這些奧運種類的協會，它們之間有點像附屬的關係，可是之間的權責的確有一些分工上的問題，這部分都是新興運動組未來要去解決的事情。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你看我對你多好，我都先寫題目給你，以三對三籃球來說，我小時候就在打三對三了，到現在幾歲了我還在打三對三，這是不是新興？人多、喜歡打，這樣是不是叫作新興？這是第一個，其實現在我看三對三也受到國際上的重視，甚至納入亞奧會的項目裡面，它到底算不算新興？你看自由潛水確實屬於海洋運動，然後又兼具著極限運動的屬性，現在你們是把它歸類在海洋、山林嘛？"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：搭配著行政院向海致敬的政策來發展，這是很好啦！但是自由潛水深度挑戰更算是極限運動的一種，你很難分的啦！霹靂舞現在已經是奧運項目了，今年也變巴黎奧運的一個正式項目，臺灣本來是今年要舉辦世界盃嘛！被中國打壓，到最後就沒辦法了，我的意思就是說你們到底有沒有一個明確的指引？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這樣講好了……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個很重要。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。就是說已經發展一個程度以上者像帆船、划船這樣的水域運動，我們把它放在海洋、山林這部分，但是比較需要花更多力氣去整合整個部會，還有跟傳統協會之間的問題者，我們先把它放在新興，因為它們也是最近因為剛進去奧運或亞運，所以才引起大家的注意，但其實它們跟原來的傳統協會存在很多問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：署長，不用互相欺騙啦！用說的都很好說啦！你叫你底下分組的去分，他就分不清楚了，分不清楚最後會造成什麼問題你知道嗎？大家推啦！大家會推。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這在我們公務體系很常見，不過還是要看首長及主秘來做協調啦！這個還是會有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那當然啦！那當然啦！過去十年國內興起的運動多少啊！滑板、飛盤、障礙路跑，甚至於攀岩、空中瑜伽、電競等，剛剛好幾個人問，從小開始跳繩也都是，全部也都是，所以你注意看，比如說剛剛大家問到的電競，電競元年是幾年你知道嗎？2012年就是我們的電競元年，12年過去了，我們現在也還在說它是新興，也好怪！也好奇怪！為什麼大家喜歡被列為新興？很簡單，政府的政策啊！就大力去補助啊！所以這個指引我倒認為應該要特別再去把它弄清楚。"],["鄭署長世忠：好，是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：另外我要就教的是基層的運動教育問題，這些部長你就可以回答了，老師打小孩是國教署管，對吧！以後教練打球員、打這些運動員，這算誰管？還是講到權責的問題，我一直認為整個基層體育班訓練跟基層教練培養的責任範圍及目標，這些都是過去比較不足的地方，要健全最高層級的職業賽事發展，甚至國家隊的成績，三級教育本來就是扎根，我以籃球為例，杭州亞運拿下三對三男籃金牌教練吳正杰老師講：「國小和國中階段的基礎養成教育出現偏差，最終受傷害的將是大學階段和職籃階段的本土球員。」籃球我們常說的區域聯防，這個名詞常常聽得到，署長很清楚嘛！"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：基層就被廣泛使用到職業隊，甚至到國家隊，這個戰術就是防守的人站好自己的位置，攻擊的人就顧另外一個位置，這樣一直培養上來，可是在日本，他們15歲以下現在都禁止區域聯防，為什麼要禁止？就是希望運動員的養成到最後攻守他全部都有辦法去做健全的發展，這部分我希望體育署應該可以找少年籃協跟高中體總一起來研議一下，不然對整個未來的發展，這些觀念沒有去做釐清的話，以後整個體育比如說運動部成立以後，觀念沒有跟上來，很難成功，我不知道署長你的看法是怎麼樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實這個議題在國小籃球及高中體總他們其實都開過會，還有籃協都開過會，我覺得是會議主持人的問題，這個部分我們未來會召集他們來做比較明確的會議結論。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我覺得這很重要，你不要以為這個……我其實也是為基層的教練請命，他們都非常辛苦，要顧飯碗，也要顧成績，對不對？未來又遇到這些，你沒有很明確可以讓他們有一點保障，然後我們整個基層的教育觀念沒有先做釐清、沒有做改變的話，運動部成立，很多事情還是跟以前遇到的問題一樣都沒辦法解決，好好思考一下，尤其是署長，好不好？"],["鄭署長世忠：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。","接下來有請陳委員俊宇發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156852","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156852","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66782fcf1c6f7032f89b75ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c474f7bb0d3e6380e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:55:18 - 13:02:32","影片長度":"00:07:14","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:55:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T13:02:32+08:00","duration":434,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.0515937500000003,"end":4.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.8572187499999995,"end":5.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.388468750000001,"end":9.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.30784375,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.15159375,"end":11.607218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.547843750000002,"end":17.496593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.766593750000002,"end":19.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.72409375,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.829093750000002,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.74409375,"end":31.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.570343750000003,"end":35.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.46846875,"end":37.932218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.10096875,"end":39.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.67034375,"end":45.087218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.06596875,"end":46.774718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.977218750000006,"end":49.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.43659375,"end":52.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.13659375,"end":65.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.37096875,"end":75.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.30596875,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.44096875000001,"end":110.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.40596875000001,"end":187.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.05221875,"end":197.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.04221875000002,"end":203.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.64471875,"end":203.93159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.01596875,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.04971875,"end":219.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.79409375,"end":219.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.86159375000003,"end":220.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.06409375,"end":220.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.11471875,"end":230.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.67846875,"end":230.79659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.86409375000002,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.88096875000002,"end":230.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.96534375000002,"end":231.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.41659375,"end":233.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.57659375000003,"end":235.04909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.72409375,"end":235.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.74096875,"end":237.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.49159375000002,"end":239.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.76159375,"end":238.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.50409375,"end":239.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.60096875000002,"end":260.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.36846875,"end":243.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.80034375,"end":265.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.88409375000003,"end":266.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.26784375,"end":274.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.94159375000004,"end":279.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.95346875,"end":280.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.03784375000004,"end":290.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.85471875,"end":302.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.68409375000005,"end":308.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.05096875000004,"end":304.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.35846875000004,"end":318.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.69846875,"end":318.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.44096875,"end":321.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.58409375,"end":324.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.94221875,"end":345.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.02409375,"end":341.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.40784375000004,"end":342.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.20909375,"end":345.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.31034375,"end":364.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.32721875000004,"end":346.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.10659375,"end":353.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.64659375,"end":353.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.05034375,"end":362.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.24846875000003,"end":371.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.12471875,"end":383.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.56596875,"end":398.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.45096875,"end":390.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.77471875000003,"end":421.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.99346875000003,"end":402.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.34721875,"end":409.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.14221875000004,"end":425.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.23034375000003,"end":428.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.93471875,"end":427.89659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.329,"end":25.984,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請部長好請部長部長你好我現在主要是要跟你請教幾個問題我先提到就是政府存在的目的本來就是要讓人民好好的生活嗎而不是說更辛苦那我自己以前念那個吳定老師他的談到那個公共行政的書籍的時候其實他有提到"},{"start":27.184,"end":28.605,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":46.104,"end":74.646,"text":"我今天就想要跟部長談一下我們以公保地解編的這個問題我們以宜蘭來看當作一個例子來看當然公保地的解編這是全台灣都遇到的一個問題而且效率出奇的慢根本跟不上時代的變遷尤其現在少子化或一些狀況有一些土地它是不是還有當初你設計的那個用途其實現在都值得考量甚至人口居住地點的移動"},{"start":76.383,"end":97.02,"text":"三十年前這可能是一個非常熱鬧的地方但現在它可能是一片荒蕪嘛那這個很多東西是否要解編這個一定要跟著時代的速度在走所以我剛說的那三個指標吳定老師那三個指標我們在看說到底解編的這個問題是行政怠惰還是全國案量過大這可能請部長要稍微也要了解一下這個問題啦否則啊"},{"start":99.262,"end":101.263,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":120.672,"end":122.753,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":150.572,"end":152.653,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":172.446,"end":172.826,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":188.061,"end":190.585,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":204.661,"end":230.452,"text":"報告委員這個個案我不是那麼清楚但是我先跟委員報告一下公有地的解編確實是一個行政上面要拖非常長的時間我自己也協助過高雄的部分那宜蘭的部分是不是請國土署署長跟您回應一下好嗎請說好跟委員報告那宜蘭的部分它一共有22個這個都市計畫的部分那有19個已經都公開展覽了那接著跟委員報告我們都19個過幾個"},{"start":240.681,"end":260.035,"text":"有6個已經修正有發佈了那剩下13個還在審查那跟委員報告因為有時候的確因為我們這裡面解編以後有需要他們提出一些勢力重劃的一個可能性評估那往往在地方政府可能對這一塊他可能在進度上會比較慢"},{"start":260.896,"end":279.717,"text":"所以他只要確認那一個部分可行我們其實都會很快幫他結束但是你知道嗎人民那些民眾他們覺得縣政府已經做了這個調查希望幫助他解編嘛但是從縣政府的角度他認為說卡在中央然後民眾就對縣政府有意見那縣政府也告訴民眾說卡在中央"},{"start":280.137,"end":301.143,"text":"跟委員報告其實這裡面都有一些關鍵點也就是說當你提出來的這些解決方案其實是需要在財務上指引上要提出可能性的評估因為我們也擔心說像過去一起也辦過結果辦完以後地方政府拖了二三十年也沒有處理所以我們這一次的審查是要求你要把可行性方案提出來也經過我們確認我們才會同意"},{"start":302.543,"end":303.164,"text":"三、審查內政部部長"},{"start":319.485,"end":320.326,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":340.629,"end":341.829,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":362.594,"end":364.415,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":390.647,"end":409.374,"text":"所以這一點我們還是會持續來要求因為有些縣像有些縣市也是回去以後就放了4年他也沒拿出來部長就這樣啦嚴格把關沒有錯我也認同這個點但是一個把關不能是效率不好的一個代名詞不能這樣好不好我會把這個宜蘭的部分進度一點點了解我們也會繼續追這個問題啦因為我四處我都看到相同的這個狀況在那邊"},{"start":415.776,"end":417.277,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2016,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時55分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長你好。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：本席今天主要是要跟部長請教幾個問題。我想政府存在的目的，本來就是要讓人民好好的生活，而不是更辛苦。我記得以前在念吳定老師公共行政的書籍時，他提到公共行政主要在追尋三個理念，第一個是效率，第二個是回應，第三個是前瞻。對政府機關在管理一個機關行政事務上面的應對，這三個東西都很重要。","所以，我今天就想跟部長談一下公保地解編的問題，我們就以宜蘭當作一個例子來看。當然公保地的解編，是全臺灣都遇到的一個問題，而且效率出奇地慢，根本跟不上時代的變遷，尤其現在少子化或是一些狀況，有些土地是不是還有當初設計的那個用途，現在都值得考量；甚至人口居住地點的移動，三十年前這可能是一個非常熱鬧的地方，但現在它可能是一片荒蕪，所以很多東西是否要解編，一定要跟著時代的速度來走。","針對我剛剛提吳定老師的那三個指標，我們來看解編的這個問題是行政怠惰，還是全國案量過大，部長可能也要稍微了解一下這個問題。否則當初為了一些公共利益，而去編的這些保留地未徵收的這個問題，一卡就卡了好幾代，限制了土地所有權人的利用，這對他們來說，其實是有傷害。因為當初告訴他們，為了公共利益，要把這些土地去做公共設施，如停車場、公園、道路，然而這段時間都沒有任何結果，地就空在那裡，地主也不能做什麼事情，一些想要處分或幹嘛的，都會發生一些不利益。","其實內政部在2013年有一個都市計畫公共設施保留地檢討變更作業原則，希望推動各地方政府對公共設施用地通盤檢討，以解決土地所有權人土地使用受限的這個問題。我看了一下，宜蘭林姿妙縣長在2019年就很積極在處理這個問題，宜蘭的12個鄉鎮市裡面，有11個都有劃設都市計畫區，區內的公用設施保留地目前未徵收的面積，我統計了一下有284公頃，面積還滿大的；時間最長的，甚至是六、七十年前就已經設定在那裡，等於他們好幾代的人都被卡住了這塊土地的使用。本席想請教部長，林姿妙縣長在2019年就開始積極地做這件事情，到現在2024年了，你知不知道目前這個通盤檢討的區域裡面已經過了幾個？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這個個案我不是那麼清楚，但是我先跟委員報告一下，公有地的解編確實在行政上面要拖非常長的時間，我自己也協助過高雄的部分。有關宜蘭的部分，是不是請國土署署長跟您回應一下？"],["吳委員宗憲：請說。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，宜蘭都市計畫的部分一共有22個，有19個已經都公開展覽了，跟委員報告……"],["吳委員宗憲：19個裡面過了幾個？已經有檢討的過了幾個？"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，有6個已經修正，也發布了，剩下13個還在審查。因為有時候解編以後，還需要他們提出市地重劃的可行性評估，往往地方政府對這一塊，可能進度上會比較慢，所以他只要確認那一個部分可行，我們其實都會很快幫他結案。"],["吳委員宗憲：但是你知道嗎？民眾覺得縣政府已經做了這個調查，希望幫助他解編；但是從縣政府的角度，他認為卡在中央，然後民眾就對縣政府有意見，那縣政府也告訴民眾說卡在中央。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，其實這裡面都有一些關鍵點，也就是說，當你提出來的這些解決方案，其實是需要在財務上、指引上提出可能性的評估，因為我們也擔心，像過去一期也辦過，結果辦完以後，地方政府拖了二、三十年也沒有處理，所以我們這一次的審查是要求你要把可行性方案提出來，也經過我們確認，我們才會同意。"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道你的意思，但是我現在不是說編列預算徵收、解編……"],["吳署長欣修：不是徵收，是可能都需要重劃或是附帶條件，那這些都需要有確實的財務評估，我們就是希望縣市政府一定要拿出來，我們最後才能核定給他。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，但是就是像我剛剛所提到的，既然這個是在2013年就已經提出來，到現在已經11年了，根據我手上的資料，我看到的是宜蘭在2019年縣長就已經在做這個事情，但是現在感覺效率並沒有出來，那有意見的是地主們，他們對這個東西有意見。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["吳委員宗憲：而且那個地不能發展、不能做其他更有效的利用，變成是荒地，使得鄰近、周邊的發展以及那邊的安全都有問題。"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["吳委員宗憲：所以我們現在是提出來，看是不是可以麻煩內政部能夠加速，而且這不光是只有宜蘭，這是全國性的問題，我想你們一定很清楚嘛！"],["吳署長欣修：我跟委員報告，的確在全國三百多案裡面，我們目前只大概完成七十幾案，後續跟各地方政府繼續在談的、送審的，其實大部分都已經進到所謂的市地重劃或是附帶條件的財務可行性評估，對這一點其實我們跟地政司都一定要嚴格把關，因為我們希望最後核的是一個可行的方案，所以這一點我們還是會持續來要求，因為像有些縣市也是回去以後結果放了4年，也沒有拿出來。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長、署長，嚴格把關沒有錯，我也認同這個點，但是你們的把關不能是效率不好的一個代名詞，不能這樣，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：了解，我會把宜蘭部分的進度讓委員了解。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為這是全臺灣面臨的問題，我們也會繼續追這個問題，因為我四處都看到相同的狀況。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，那再麻煩你們，就是效率一定要跟上時代。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為人口的變遷、人口的遷徙，其實這個都會讓當初的計畫也許在今天不一定那麼配合時宜，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：了解。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。"],["主席：我們中午不休息，繼續開會。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員高金素梅所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156850","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156850","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678b1d12f23a2b79fc675ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892ce7f89b699d3b680b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"12:41:09 - 12:46:41","影片長度":"00:05:32","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:41:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:46:41+08:00","duration":332,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.8997187500000003,"end":2.9334687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.9334687500000003,"end":6.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.19034375,"end":6.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.712218750000002,"end":24.567218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.820343750000003,"end":27.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.195343750000003,"end":47.922218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.955968750000004,"end":54.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.55409375,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.26909375000001,"end":101.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.19221875000001,"end":125.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.40784375000001,"end":148.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.88534375,"end":156.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.25534375,"end":229.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.88596875000002,"end":172.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.26659375000003,"end":220.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.96971875000003,"end":294.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.44034375,"end":314.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.90721875,"end":306.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.96909375,"end":327.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.26659375,"end":330.20721875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.932,"end":4.964,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請部長 劉部長 謝謝好 請部長"},{"start":14.984,"end":17.045,"text":"關於黑名單受監控的恢復時間,目前監察院去年報告提出糾正。糾正內容是這樣的。"},{"start":38.851,"end":50.259,"text":"他指出國民黨政府在解嚴甚至是刑法100條廢除之後依然持續監控人民而有所謂的為民專案把反對政府反對國民黨還有主張臺灣獨立的海外留學生還有華僑指為叛國分子"},{"start":55.523,"end":80.818,"text":"這個專案在監察院的報告裡面提到至少持續到民國84年可是就變成這個到了84年這個為民專案可能其實就已經超過了相關法律規定的補償範圍而相關法律規定的補償範圍是民國81年所以這是第一個問題需要跟部長討論再來下一頁那還有其他的案例顯示國民黨黑名單侵害人民權利其實延續到更晚"},{"start":81.278,"end":101.57,"text":"以黃文雄先生的案子他雖然在1996年反台可是在相關的名單當中他依然被違反國家安全法起訴一直到他後來自己提出釋憲到2003年才作出釋憲認為這個國家安全法的規定侵害人民自由反國的權利而違憲這是第二個案例"},{"start":102.21,"end":104.853,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":126.474,"end":127.335,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":156.374,"end":157.936,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":171.912,"end":196.835,"text":"所以不管是促轉正義或者是說我們提到有關國家不法或者二二八基金會其實也都希望可以從過去這段時間裡面不管是被監控被壓迫然後沒有受到這個民主這個政治上面洗洗禮的這些人的不法行為或者是這個不符合我們現在法治上行為的人我們都很希望他能夠把這些案例提供給我們參考"},{"start":198.156,"end":220.039,"text":"提供給我們參考的話我想我們的國家不只是內政部所屬的幾個基金會包括在其他的基金會或者是行政院下面所屬的人權委會都有相關的問題那總結來看也就是說台灣是一個有法治有人權的國家那這些當時以國家的力量來迫害人民的權利的部分它慢慢就浮現出來"},{"start":220.66,"end":222.841,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":247.173,"end":264.124,"text":"也就是要拜託部長支持把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權力回復條例的適用者納入受國家監控及剝奪工作反鄉權職人士就是我剛舉的這些案例那如同部長說的一定會有更多的案例浮現再來也希望部長支持並且討論"},{"start":265.285,"end":292.436,"text":"把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例的適用範圍擴及到第一次政黨輪替之前也就是西元2000年以確保所有受國家暴力監控以及限制人身自由的受害者皆能回復其權利那我自己必須承認這個事情我們都還需要更多的討論跟社會的共識但是如果我們有這個意識要回復他們的權利跟相關的名聲我相信在後續的修法討論我們應該還有一些空間是嗎?部長"},{"start":296.482,"end":316.081,"text":"我剛有提到台灣是一個憲政法治的國家如果我們在法律上修正不管是要把他時間延長或者是受國家監控剝奪他的工作反鄉權的人士放在法律裡面站在我們行政部門的話不管是哪一個部會我想我們就會全力支持"},{"start":316.561,"end":318.924,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1951,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時41分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長午安，辛苦了。有一個議題想要快速跟您討論，可能會有一些實質上的困難，但我想經過今天的討論，我們也許可以想一想，後續可以怎麼解決我們現在看到的這個困境。有關黑名單受監控恢復的時間，我們看到監察院去年的報告裡面有提出糾正，糾正的內容是國民黨政府在解嚴，甚至是刑法一百條廢除之後，依然持續監控人民，而有所謂的維民專案，把反對政府、反對國民黨，還有主張臺灣獨立的海外留學生、華僑指為叛國分子。監察院的報告提到這個專案，至少持續到民國84年。因為這個維民專案持續到84年，可能就已經超過了相關法律規定的補償範圍，而相關法律規定的補償範圍是民國81年。這是第一個問題，需要跟部長討論。","還有其他的案例顯示國民黨黑名單侵害人民權利，其實延續到更晚，如黃文雄先生的案子，他雖然在1996年返臺，可是在相關的名單當中，他依然被違反國家安全法起訴，一直到後來他自己提出釋憲，2003年才做出釋憲，認為這個國家安全法的規定，侵害人民自由返國的權利而違憲。這是第二個案例。","下一個案例可能也是部長很熟悉的──夷將．拔路兒當時是原民會主委，促轉會的報告發現他被監控了11年，直到1998年才終止了監控。這又回到我剛剛跟部長討論的權利回復時間，其實在民國81年就截止了；也就是說，我們在這三個案例中，都看到很大的困境。第四個是邱煌生的案例，他一直到2000年政黨輪替之後，才被結束所謂的監控。我想問部長，在2000年政權沒有轉移之前，我們都有相關的監控案例與困境，監察院的報告也指出，我們要有相關的因應之道。不知道部長對這個議題，目前有什麼看法？我們當然有我們的見解，但我還是想問部長，我們目前可以怎麼做？"],["劉部長世芳：是，我想隨著我們民主政治越來越發達，法治也越來越精實的狀況下，以往不管是在威權統治或是所謂黑名單時期裡面，這類案例一直浮現出來。不管是促轉正義，或者是我們提到有關國家不法，或者228基金會，其實也都希望可以從過去這段時間裡面，不管是被監控、被壓迫，然後沒有受到民主政治洗禮的這些人的不法行為，或者是不符合現代法治上行為的人，我們都很希望他能夠把這些案例提供給我們參考。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["劉部長世芳：提供給我們參考的話，我想國家不只是內政部所屬的幾個基金會，包括其他的基金會，或者是行政院所屬的人權委員會，都有相關的問題。總結來看，臺灣是一個有法治、有人權的國家，當時以國家力量來迫害人民權利的部分，慢慢就浮現出來，如果有任何法律上面的規範，可以還給人民，或是可以讓這些轉型正義浮現出來的話，站在我們的立場，我們願意來協助他們。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長非常正向的回應。因為時間有限，我就簡單說明我們的訴求，就算這一次沒有辦法修法，我們希望日後在法規範討論的時候可以修正。第一個，我們希望擴及補償更多的威權受害者，也就是要拜託部長支持，把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例的適用者，納入受國家監控及剝奪工作返鄉權之人士，就是我剛舉的這些案例；如同部長所說的，一定會有更多的案例浮現。同時也希望部長支持並且討論，把威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例的適用範圍，擴及到第一次政黨輪替之前，也就是西元2000年，確保所有受國家暴力監控，以及限制人身自由的受害者，皆能回復其權利。","我也必須承認，我們對這個事情都還需要更多的討論跟社會共識；但如果我們有這個意識，要回復他們的權利，跟相關的名聲，我相信在後續的修法討論，我們應該還有一些空間，是嗎？部長。"],["劉部長世芳：我剛有提到，臺灣是一個憲政法治的國家，如果我們在法律上修正，不管是要把時間延長，或是要把受國家監控、被剝奪工作、返鄉權的人士放在法律裡面，站行政部門的立場，不管是哪一個部會，我想我們都會全力支持。"],["陳委員培瑜：因為需要把這些名單跟時間算清楚，講清楚之後，後續才能跟社安網、社福法的保障扣在一起，更多的細節，我們再跟內政部討論。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156849","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156849","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66785ef02f12049b549675ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c7865746eaf850cdb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"12:32:53 - 12:40:59","影片長度":"00:08:06","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:32:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:40:59+08:00","duration":486,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.95846875,"end":7.759718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.02971875,"end":9.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.29971875,"end":8.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.24471875,"end":10.746593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.12534375,"end":17.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.00284375,"end":18.711593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.33596875,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.06971875,"end":23.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":26.305343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.879093750000003,"end":28.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.53284375,"end":31.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.33409375,"end":32.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.70096875,"end":33.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.34221875,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.85659375,"end":44.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.205343750000004,"end":46.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.517218750000005,"end":62.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.62034375,"end":87.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.79784375,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.97409375000001,"end":116.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.41784375,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.09596875000001,"end":187.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.39409375000002,"end":306.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.75096875,"end":306.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.45096875,"end":325.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.12909375000004,"end":317.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.90409375,"end":336.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.83909375,"end":339.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.91034375000004,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.06159375000004,"end":349.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.94659375000003,"end":387.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.27846875,"end":449.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.23346875000004,"end":432.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.46284375000005,"end":449.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.62721875000005,"end":451.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.79971875,"end":475.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.40596875000006,"end":462.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.24909375000004,"end":467.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.28284375000004,"end":467.43471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.70784375000005,"end":479.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.81659375000004,"end":483.34784375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.344,"end":10.354,"text":"謝謝主席有請內政部長還有副政司請部長副政司長"},{"start":18.129,"end":46.049,"text":"部長好首先我想先謝謝一下部長跟國土署因為我在這次的院會總質詢有去提到就是如果明年國土計劃法上路我們的建物的用地合法化之後明年可以去縣市政府去做建物的合法化登記但是可能會面臨很巨額的一個費用那這個部分呢謝謝"},{"start":47.911,"end":50.515,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":62.754,"end":79.32,"text":"那接下來我想要問一下我們的部長您知不知道我們今年其實原住民上半年有兩個很重要的法一個叫做原住民族身份法的修正那另外一個是姓名條例的修正"},{"start":80.721,"end":83.723,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":98.174,"end":100.576,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":124.272,"end":126.913,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":145.2,"end":147.561,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":163.849,"end":166.571,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":187.552,"end":189.893,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":206.238,"end":207.44,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":222.222,"end":223.724,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":242.685,"end":245.086,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":257.93,"end":258.95,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":284.796,"end":302.642,"text":"希望第一個問題就是教育訓練第二個呢像這個韓式應該也要廢除再來就是我們跨部會的系統整合也要趕快處理還有一些涉及到原住民身份法、民法這一些是不是部會溝通的進度那我其實在9月已經開過協調會啦我是想要知道進度如何"},{"start":309.502,"end":324.847,"text":"委員有三個提問的部分有關於91年的內政部那個函是我們在11月的時候會廢止那其他有關這個互證人員或是其他相關部會的這個系統整合的進度我是不是請我們司長來回應一下好嗎"},{"start":327.316,"end":348.577,"text":"有關這個資訊系統的部分我們在5月17號今年5月23號已經邀集相關機關召開一個會議那請各機關要調整他的資訊系統姓名欄位大概目前已經有請機關陸陸續續在做板根了是以上的說明好謝謝都有進度那主席再給我一分鐘我想要邀請國家公園署"},{"start":351.501,"end":356.085,"text":"部長我簡單這樣講因為我進來立法院是2020年109年我第一個月就接到一個陳情就是我們花蓉萬榮鄉有一個叫摩里沙卡部落他希望可以跟我們的林田山做實質的共管那很感謝這些年來確實都真正的參與決策也真正的參與林田山的整個工作經營"},{"start":374.758,"end":377.379,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":398.211,"end":401.014,"text":"因為他們聽到我們賴清德總統他有一個政見叫原住民落實自治那麼他們也就在今年的1月28號內政部已經核准成立台灣太魯閣族的自治協會他們想要爭取"},{"start":413.308,"end":414.129,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":432.185,"end":433.026,"text":"四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":454.503,"end":479.352,"text":"跟委員報告有關他們自治的這個想法目前是還在醞釀當中那我們也都多方在聽取意見在公管會議上面也都曾經提過那這部分我們會來瞭解看看目前的話我們是希望說用比較走社區合作營造的這個方式先大家凝聚共識他們也要求我近期來做一個跨部會的會議啦我到時候再邀請好不好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1938,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時32分）謝謝主席，有請內政部長，還有戶政司長。"],["主席：請部長及戶政司長。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好，首先我想先謝謝部長跟國土署，因為我在這次的院會總質詢提到，如果明年國土計畫法上路，我們的建物用地合法化之後，明年可以去縣市政府做建物的合法化登記，但可能會有一筆巨額的費用。就這個部分，要謝謝原民會跟內政部在我質詢之後，研議出一個不錯的方法─借用保存登記的概念，讓這一些舊有的房屋直接來申請合法，所以我要特別藉這個機會來表達謝意。","接下來，我想問部長知不知道我們原住民在今年上半年有兩個很重要的法，一個是原住民族身分法的修正，另外一個是姓名條例的修正；一個在1月公告，一個在5月公告。1月到6月，在這短短的半年，去回復原住民族身分或姓名的高達1萬3,000人，大概是歷年增幅最高的一次，我相信長此以往，對原住民族人口的增加或是身分的認可，其實是有很好效應。我在這裡介紹一下我們原住民族的姓名登記，目前己有四種方式可以隨你選擇，到了戶政事務所，可以用我們原住民族的文字來登記。其實原住民語言發展法早就說過，這個不叫作羅馬拼音，這個叫作原住民族文字，所以我們可以單列原住民族文字；也可以並列，就是漢名跟我們的原住民族文字；也可以用康熙字典作漢字的音譯；也可以漢字音譯，加我們的原住民族文字。主要是希望大家用正確的名字來呼喚我，就像我們講Paul，跟講保羅是不一樣的，講Mary跟瑪麗是不一樣的，我們很希望能夠被正確的呼喊名字。第二個好處是，因為憲法法庭所做的釋憲，我們也來修法修正，只要父母一方是原住民或兩方都是原住民，這四種方式都可以讓孩子取得原住民的身分。","但是這半年來，我們收到很多很多的陳情。例如有族人到臺中的某個戶政事務所，要去幫女兒取族名，希望用漢名、族名並列，但是戶政所的人員說，他要取的族名，在族人名譜裡面找不到，堅持不讓他登記；又或者是到了監理站，發現有線上服務，但因為它的欄位系統沒有辦法登入族名，所以還是被迫要親自跑一趟；還有人因為已經並列了，當他堅持簽他的原住民族名的時候，也會被要求寫漢名。為什麼？因為內政部民國91年的函釋說：顧及機關使用便利性，同意原住民單獨使用中文的傳統姓名，至於羅馬拼音的部分，社會各界還不熟悉，所以不能使用。又或者最多的情形是，好多人的爸爸媽媽已經去回復傳統名字，孩子想要保留原來的漢姓、漢名，結果他去並列登記的時候，戶政所告訴他說，他已經喪失原住民身分，因為他的爸爸媽媽已經改回原住民的名字，所以他就自動喪失原住民的身分。對此種種，我覺得內政部的第一個問題就是教育訓練；第二個像這種函釋也應該要廢除；再來就是跨部會系統的整合，也要趕快處理；還有一些涉及原住民身分法、民法，相關部會溝通的進度。其實本席在9月已經開過協調會，我想知道進度如何。"],["劉部長世芳：針對委員的三個提問，關於內政部在91年的那個函釋，我們會在11月廢止。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。"],["劉部長世芳：有關戶政人員，或是其他相關部會的系統整合進度，我請司長來回應。"],["陳司長永智：跟委員報告，有關資訊系統的部分，我們在今年5月23日已經邀集相關機關召開會議，請各機關調整其資訊系統姓名、欄位，目前已經請機關陸陸續續在趕更。以上說明。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝，都有進度。請主席再給我一分鐘，我想要邀請國家公園署。部長，我簡單的講，我是2020年進立法院，也就是109年，我在第一個月就接到一份陳情，即：花蓮萬榮鄉的摩里沙卡部落希望可以跟林田山做實質共管，我們很感謝這些年來確實都能真正參與決策，真正參與林田山的整個工作經營。可是現在問題來了，在0403地震之後，太魯閣國家公園說裡面有很多部落，很多傳統領域受到傷害，國家公園署也有邀請部落參與，但這個期程很漫長，預計要120年才能夠復建完成。這個時候太魯閣自治區有意見，因為他們聽到賴清德總統有一個政見，叫原住民落實自治，所以他們提出申請，在今年1月28日由內政部核准成立台灣太魯閣族自治協會，想要爭取自治的示範空間。這個跟我的質詢訴求也很一致，因為我在第一會期的院會總質詢問過卓榮泰院長，希望在原住民自治法上路之前，要有自治區、部落公法人的示範以及原住民族學校的示範點，都答應了，原民會也說OK了。現在我就只問一個問題：你們有沒有去討論？因為他們想要爭取太魯閣一起做自治空間、合作管理機制，也希望建立一個學校。對於這個自治空間，不曉得內政部跟太魯閣國家公園的意見怎麼樣？"],["劉處長守禮：跟委員報告，有關他們自治的這個想法，目前還在醞釀當中，我們也在聽取多方意見，在控管會議上面也都曾經提過，對於這部分，我們也會來了解看看。目前，我們是希望走社區合作營造的方式，大家先來凝聚共識。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：他們要求我近期可以召開一個跨部會的會議，我們到時候再來邀請。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：繼續請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156847","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156847","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667882ada747f2ca9cfa75ab657293b96e21a9224958d423892c79d122fef1d5156d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:13:25 - 12:23:10","影片長度":"00:09:45","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於內政部主管部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案。五、審查內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計九案：(一)審查行政院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案。【第(六)案至第(八)案如經復議則不予審查，第(九)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:25+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:23:10+08:00","duration":585,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.8278437500000004,"end":6.814718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.844093750000001,"end":8.232218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.62784375,"end":14.644718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.644718750000003,"end":15.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.04971875,"end":28.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.59596875,"end":31.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.671593750000003,"end":32.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.39721875,"end":33.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.74284375,"end":35.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.41784375,"end":36.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":36.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.46409375,"end":41.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.556593750000005,"end":39.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.32409375,"end":41.729093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.10034375,"end":57.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.59159375,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.67096875,"end":74.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.84346875,"end":66.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.98159375,"end":76.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.93909375,"end":90.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.90471875,"end":79.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.11471875000001,"end":85.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.48159375,"end":87.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.37971875000001,"end":91.39221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":94.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.42971875,"end":116.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.48534375000001,"end":122.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.91471875,"end":125.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.88471875,"end":127.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.34846875,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.16221875000002,"end":132.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.41534375,"end":143.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.43221875,"end":132.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.18159375000002,"end":148.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.34534375,"end":152.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.45034375,"end":151.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.54721875,"end":152.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.56409375,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.32346875000002,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.07346875000002,"end":169.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.64159375,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.89034375,"end":172.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.96596875,"end":173.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.19784375,"end":200.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.38784375,"end":215.62596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.75784375,"end":208.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.84534375,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.70971875,"end":219.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.41784375,"end":230.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.81346875000003,"end":232.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.36159375000003,"end":259.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.97346875,"end":277.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.21096875,"end":291.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.74909375000004,"end":292.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.04846875000004,"end":295.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.01846875,"end":297.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.38534375,"end":303.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.69221875,"end":315.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.42471875,"end":320.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.44909375000003,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.92534375,"end":336.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.51846875,"end":342.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.18034375,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.32784375,"end":365.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.42096875000004,"end":372.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.98159375,"end":377.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.96346875,"end":378.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.95909375,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.05596875000003,"end":384.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.83159375,"end":391.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.98659375,"end":393.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.14659375,"end":403.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.10284375000003,"end":411.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.32096875,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.24909375000004,"end":417.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.61534375,"end":421.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.77971875000003,"end":453.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.47971875,"end":422.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.49596875000003,"end":471.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.38346875,"end":473.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.02034375000005,"end":488.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.18284375,"end":499.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.70471875000004,"end":508.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.53096875000006,"end":502.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.19284375,"end":504.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.82096875,"end":514.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.7397187500001,"end":516.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.67596875,"end":534.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":523.7803437499999,"end":526.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.2690937500001,"end":528.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.85971875,"end":528.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1372187500001,"end":546.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.60784375,"end":550.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.12221875,"end":557.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.0872187500001,"end":566.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.38221875,"end":569.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.66784375,"end":568.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.1740937500001,"end":572.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.51159375,"end":575.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.72596875,"end":579.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.1940937500001,"end":581.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.93596875,"end":581.9822187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.271,"end":28.235,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請劉世芳部長部長部長好部長本席有看到您在10月12號的時候有跟我們耕州燒老防治的推動資訊小組合影然後施行耕燒法施行兩年成效良好嘛對不對"},{"start":29.639,"end":33.456,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":34.79,"end":61.478,"text":"事情很多那是我們的新聘委員那我們謝謝他們過去一段時間的幫忙我還想說要給部長有個這個打廣告的一個機會因為耕燒法上路兩年我們在2021年的時候共同推動那也希望是說能夠嚇阻這樣子的一個耕種燒老的一個犯罪樣態但部長有沒有注意到最近有耕燒法的這個有可能的一個犯罪狀況"},{"start":62.478,"end":64.219,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":92.094,"end":116.176,"text":"部長這只是冰山一角啊因為李多惠他是一個公眾人物知名人物所以說他開直播然後大家有關心也認為是說本席第一時間看到我們也不知道說他到底是誰啊有可能以為的是譬如說愛慕者有可能以為是這個粉絲但是比較激進的方式那後來即便你講是說有可能他是這個媒體朋友但不管怎麼樣他是不是符合根梢的一個要件"},{"start":116.636,"end":118.918,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":128.733,"end":151.726,"text":"報告委員其實我們已經有7000多案是警察機關受理的到目前為止所以表示說其實跟騷法從這個立法院三讀通過上路以來確實它有達到一定的效果而且呢八成以上的跟騷行為我先請教李都會這個案件符不符合跟騷法的一個保護要件我想應該由警政機關來認定比較好不是由我來認定好嗎"},{"start":153.554,"end":172.079,"text":"來簡單說明一下你看依照這個從開始的發生地一直到延續到到那個結果我覺得應該是符合更稍微是符合嘛對不對因為確實我們看到是說他持續的在跟蹤而且心生畏懼嘛對所以我們這個案件也知道對象在偵辦當中在偵辦當中是好來部長本席還是提醒啊"},{"start":173.015,"end":197.989,"text":"因為不管是李多惠不管是任何的一個公眾人物我覺得台灣很寶貴的地方是在於是說我們的民主法治那我們也希望是說不要讓任何人來到台灣之後覺得是說他有心生畏懼然後感覺好像有不好的一個印象我覺得這都會牽一髮而動全身尤其是我們現在觀光的部分蠻多的韓國的自由行的旅客也會來到台灣所以這一點是不是應該要加強來做一個這個防範"},{"start":200.95,"end":222.802,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,我想您提到了就是說可能我們台灣一半的一部分的民眾都知道有跟騷法但他如果是外國觀光客來的時候可能有這方面的困難那我們是不是來跟交通部的觀光署或者是說跟我們外交部的同仁一起來看看怎麼樣做比較好的宣導就是台灣是有跟騷法,如果他認為有這樣子的一個困擾的時候可以跟我們警政機關來做投訴"},{"start":224.431,"end":250.394,"text":"好謝謝部長那部長另外一個部分我想今天那個國土署跟我們駐都董事長是不是也有過來來我們簡單再請教一下部長兩年前111年12月本席跟內政委員會委員來考察新北地區社會住宅的重大公共工程當時我們就針對就是以前世大運選手村也是現在我們量體最大的一個社會住宅"},{"start":250.874,"end":276.94,"text":"我就有要求說應該是要成立不管是官方的賴群組能夠適時的回應住戶的一個問題或者是社會住宅冷氣的部分應該要變更能暖變平跟高節能的一個冷氣為什麼那兩年前會這樣子提是因為那個時候我們看到2017年的世大運選手村當時採購的冷氣居然並不是所謂的變平冷氣而"},{"start":279.241,"end":286.505,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。七、審查內政部主管部分。八、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":304.761,"end":322.897,"text":"社會住宅的問題其實現在讓大家會覺得是說好像爆發很多的一個負面新聞更重要的是現在居然還有這個民眾陳情反應是說不管是我們董事長好像也都對於住宅的這一些住戶的反應不聞不問部長有沒有掌握到這樣的消息"},{"start":325.057,"end":330.658,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":354.202,"end":363.702,"text":"三位委員前往到我們的社宅我今天也不只是針對林口世大運的社宅我認為是說我們所有全國的社宅我們都應該要統一一樣的標準"},{"start":366.482,"end":392.98,"text":"我們的社宅有中央政府也有地方政府是那中央政府的標準是的尤其是我們有住都中心所以應該是要帶頭示範啊您記不記得3個月前你也才來我們林口凍土、剪採本席也陪同啊因為我們林口另外一個社宅也要再新建啊那但是社宅的管理新建是一個部分我們大家沒有反對但是新建完之後的管理以及居住裡面的一個狀況"},{"start":394.221,"end":416.208,"text":"包括說現在還有一般戶轉成弱勢戶的續約爭議。其實這個爭議從今年3月都有。住住中心也有住住中心的解釋。那但是現在針對民眾的反應持續的沒有辦法獲得解決跟改善的時候,這只會讓這樣子好像是壓力過一樣越悶越大。部長。好,我們來檢討改進。那個委員所提到的問題我們會一一來檢討。"},{"start":418.649,"end":420.83,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。五、審查內政部主管部分。六、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":447.301,"end":465.522,"text":"那這個部分我們會分層次來處理那最後處理的狀況做檢討經濟的措施以後再跟委員報告好部長我希望一個月內可以給本席以及內政委員會的委員書面報告針對我們全國的社宅的部分要怎麼樣來去做檢討尤其是光冷氣的部分"},{"start":466.323,"end":467.945,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":484.864,"end":486.585,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"},{"start":515.084,"end":516.225,"text":"三、審查內政部主管部分"},{"start":535.482,"end":556.633,"text":"兩年前就應該可以處理的問題不會說拖到現在還沒有處理嘛本席就說111年的時候我們就一起去現場做座談做會刊做考察那怎麼會兩年後還有這樣的問題持續發生委員我想這是官方機構所碰到的困擾啦他自己買了冷氣以後兩年以後這個冷氣是他自己帶走嗎"},{"start":558.12,"end":561.383,"text":"二、審查內政部主管部分。三、審查內政部主管部分。四、審查內政部主管部分。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1814,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時13分）主席謝謝，麻煩請劉世芳部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，本席看到您在10月12日，有跟我們跟蹤騷擾防制的推動諮詢小組合影，然後跟騷法施行2年，成效良好嘛！對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：10月的部分，是，有。"],["洪委員孟楷：忘記了？"],["劉部長世芳：忘記了。"],["洪委員孟楷：事情很多。"],["劉部長世芳：對，那是我們的新聘委員，我們謝謝他們過去一段時間的幫忙。"],["洪委員孟楷：我還想說給部長有個打廣告的機會，因為跟騷法上路2年，我們在2021年共同推動，希望能夠嚇阻跟蹤騷擾的犯罪樣態，那部長有沒有注意到最近可能觸犯跟騷法的犯罪狀況？就是這個韓國的啦啦隊。"],["劉部長世芳：我想最近應該是因為李多慧小姐，警政單位已經有去追蹤，知道跟騷的人好像是一位女性，可能也是……"],["洪委員孟楷：男性女性都有，因為不只1位。"],["劉部長世芳：好像是所謂的八卦媒體之類。另外，也有人提出異議，就是跟騷法裡面做了一些強制處分，他們希望有申訴的機會，那我們也會在跟蹤騷擾防制法的委員會裡面討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這只是冰山一角啊！因為李多慧是一個公眾人物、知名人物，所以他開直播，然後大家有關心，本席第一時間看到，我們也不知道他到底是誰啊！有可能以為他是愛慕者，有可能以為他是粉絲，但是用比較激進的方式，後來即便你說他有可能是媒體朋友，但不管怎麼樣，他是不是符合跟騷的要件？如果今天不是李多慧，不是一個公眾人物，還有其他女性遇到這樣的樣態跟狀態的話，有沒有辦法能夠嚇阻跟保障？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，其實我們已經有七千多案是警察機關受理的，到目前為止，所以表示說跟騷法從立法院三讀通過上路以來，確實有達到一定的效果，而且8成以上的跟騷行為……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我現在只是請教，李多慧這個案件符不符合跟騷法的保護要件？"],["劉部長世芳：我想應該由警政機關來認定比較好，不是由我來認定，好嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：來，簡單說明一下。"],["張署長榮興：依照開始的發生地，一直延續到結果，我覺得應該是符合跟騷法的要件。"],["洪委員孟楷：是符合嘛！對不對？"],["張署長榮興：符合。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為確實我們看到他持續地在跟蹤，而且讓人心生畏懼嘛！"],["張署長榮興：對，所以我們這個案件也知道對象，在偵辦當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：在偵辦當中。"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。部長，本席還是提醒啦！不管是李多慧，不管是任何一個公眾人物，我覺得臺灣很寶貴的地方是在於我們的民主法治，我們也希望不要讓任何人來到臺灣之後覺得他有心生畏懼，好像有不好的印象，我覺得這都會牽一髮而動全身，尤其是我們現在觀光的部分，滿多韓國自由行的旅客也會來到臺灣，所以這一點是不是應該要加強防範？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的提醒，我想您提到的，可能臺灣一部分的民眾都知道有跟騷法，但是外國觀光客來的時候可能有這方面的困擾，那我們是不是跟交通部觀光署，或者是跟外交部的同仁一起來看看怎麼樣做比較好的宣導？就是說臺灣有跟騷法，如果他認為有這樣困擾的時候，可以向警政機關來做投訴。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝部長。另外一個部分，今天國土署和住都董事長是不是也有過來？來，我們簡單再請教一下。部長，2年前，111年12月本席跟內政委員會委員去考察新北地區社會住宅的重大公共工程，當時我們針對以前世大運選手村，也是現在量體最大的社會住宅，我就有要求應該成立官方的LINE群組，能夠適時地回應住戶的問題，以及社會住宅的冷氣應該要變更為冷暖變頻及高節能的冷氣，為什麼我們2年前會這樣子提？是因為那個時候我們看到2017年世大運選手村當時採購的冷氣居然不是所謂的變頻冷氣，而冷氣的故障率非常高又耗電，所以現在住在選手村這一些社宅的民眾，他說今年拿到的電價帳單可能是因為開冷氣，暴漲快2倍，比房租都還要貴，到目前為止沒有辦法更換，連住戶自己要花錢更換都說不行。","社會住宅的問題讓大家覺得現在好像爆發很多的負面新聞，更重要的是，現在居然還有民眾陳情反映，董事長好像也都對這些住戶的反映不聞不問，部長，有沒有掌握到這樣的消息？"],["劉部長世芳：我是不是請花董事長來回應一下？"],["洪委員孟楷：你要讓當事人自清，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：澄清場合，我沒有要讓他澄清啦！部長，其實我要的是，你身為主管機關有沒有接獲到相關的訊息？"],["劉部長世芳：我們來檢討改進一下，有關於冷氣的部分我有聽說，但是因為我們在管理委員會上面……"],["洪委員孟楷：而且2年前內政委員會，您可以調資料，111年12月14日內政委員會正式的考察，出席的委員是游毓蘭委員、洪孟楷委員及賴香伶委員，3位委員前往社宅，我今天也不只是針對林口世大運的社宅，我認為全國的社宅都應該要統一一樣的標準，部長。"],["劉部長世芳：我們的社宅有中央政府也有地方政府，中央政府的標準是一致的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以中央，尤其是有住都中心，所以應該要帶頭示範啊！您記不記得3個月前你才來林口動土、剪綵，本席也陪同，因為林口也要再興建另外一個社宅啊！但是社宅的管理，興建是一個部分，大家沒有反對，但是興建完之後的管理以及居住的狀況，包括現在還有一般戶轉成弱勢戶的續約爭議，其實這個爭議從今年3月就有，住都中心也有住都中心的解釋，但是現在針對民眾的反映，持續地沒有辦法獲得解決跟改善的時候，這樣子只會像壓力鍋一樣越悶越大，部長。"],["劉部長世芳：好，我們來檢討改進，委員提到的問題我們會一一來檢討。"],["洪委員孟楷：要怎麼有一個具體的部分？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，國土署會跟住都中心來針對各個社宅裡面的住戶，對他們所提的狀況先看一下，譬如您剛剛提到硬體建設的部分看怎麼樣處理，還有軟體，就是居住品質的部分到底出現什麼狀況。同時我們也希望委員可以幫我們澄清，有一些部分確實是社宅住戶本身感覺是這個樣子，但是實際上我們在法律規定上面已經做到了，所以這個部分我們會分層次來處理，那最後處理的狀況，做檢討精進的措施以後再跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，我希望1個月內可以給本席以及內政委員會的委員書面報告，針對全國社宅的部分要怎麼樣去檢討，尤其是冷氣的部分啦！光冷氣的部分已經討論2年了，2年前就有這樣的問題，我覺得最離譜……"],["劉部長世芳：冷氣已經有改善了，是不是委員再聽一下？"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有，沒有全部改善，所以民眾今年收到的電價單才會比房租還要高啊！然後民眾要自己換變頻冷氣還說不給換，還說這個是國家的財產，所以不能換。"],["花董事長敬群：委員，這裡面應該有誤解啦！這絕對是有誤解，因為冷氣當然有它的使用壽命，當時2017年用……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯嘛！你們說因為它有使用壽命……"],["花董事長敬群：當然是啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：有財產編號，所以我不能現在換……"],["花董事長敬群：但是沒有說不准換。"],["洪委員孟楷：使用壽命到的時候才能換。"],["花董事長敬群：這本來就是這樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：那民眾是說現在這個高耗能的我就不想用，我想要自己花錢換還不能換。"],["花董事長敬群：我覺得這個部分可以討論，可能都有誤解，這個部分都可以溝通，可能是某人的某些私下說法嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：董事長，我說事實啦！這個議題為什麼我會利用今天這個機會凸顯？就是因為我認為真的是已經……"],["花董事長敬群：因為我們所有新的社宅絕對都是變頻冷氣，不會有那種舊的冷氣。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席在問政的時候絕對都有相關的資料，本席也不會無的放矢，但重點是在於這一些問題裡面，如果說有，2年前應該就可以處理的問題，不會說拖到現在還沒有處理嘛！本席就說111年的時候，我們一起去現場座談、會勘、考察，怎麼會2年後還有這樣的問題持續發生？部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我想這個是官方機構所碰到的困擾啦！他自己買了冷氣，2年以後這個冷氣是他自己帶走嗎？他自己帶走，所以我們把舊的再裝回去？"],["洪委員孟楷：是嘛！所以部長，這是不是就是剛剛董事長……"],["劉部長世芳：這樣子就衍生到社會住宅未來管理的問題，所以我說有精進措施我們會來處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是董事長講的跟您現在講的又不一樣？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有不一樣啊！他的講法……"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是那個邏輯又不同？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，邏輯都是一樣的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在講的是怎麼樣能夠解決這個問題，好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：是，所以我說我們1個月以後會把相關的部分向委員及內政委員會報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：1個月內給本席以及內政委員會解決的方式。"],["劉部長世芳：好，瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：游顥、游顥、游顥委員不在。","黃國昌、黃國昌、黃國昌委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","陳素月、陳素月、陳素月委員不在。","陳雪生、陳雪生、陳雪生委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請張雅琳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":374,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-9","speakers":["張宏陸","黃捷","李柏毅","張智倫","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","高金素梅","黃建賓","吳琪銘","丁學忠","許宇甄","林德福","黃健豪","徐欣瑩","羅智強","洪孟楷","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","吳宗憲"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中央政府總預算\n案關於內政部主管部分；三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算內政部主管部分；\n四、審查內政部函送財團法人二二八事件紀念基金會等8家財團法人114年度預算書案；五、審查\n內政部函送國家住宅及都市更新中心114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另訂時間處理】；\n六、審查「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例」修正草案，計八案：(一)審查行政\n院函請審議「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審查\n委員林宜瑾等27人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」\n案、(三)審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文\n修正草案」案、(四)審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例\n部分條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員吳沛憶等24人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權\n利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「威權統治時期國家不法行\n為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員張雅琳等25人擬具「威權統治時期\n國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員陳培瑜等18人擬具「威\n權統治時期國家不法行為被害者權利回復條例部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1139701_00003"}}},{"id":"156840","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156840","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678191578a979422f1006c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be6812948a7a6596355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"12:52:30 - 12:58:35","影片長度":"00:06:05","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:52:30+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:58:35+08:00","duration":365,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.7522187500000002,"end":5.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.585968750000003,"end":73.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.55534375,"end":89.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.53346875000001,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.41034375000001,"end":83.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.14784375,"end":96.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.73721875000001,"end":183.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.17534375000002,"end":215.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.92971875,"end":266.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.47034375000004,"end":318.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.95159375000003,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.44409375000004,"end":326.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.39659375,"end":365.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.70846875,"end":363.06284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.389,"end":3.936,"text":"謝謝主席,那有請部長,謝謝"},{"start":12.605,"end":30.802,"text":"好謝謝部長部長午安幾個問題跟您討論第一個其實就是我們在我主要在教育文化委員會那我們非常關心在AI這個時代的發展趨勢底下其實在大學的招生都已經出現了非常多的困難那當然這個我們在教育文化委員會要解決可是想要跟您請教其實數發部長期以來都有推動數位T大使"},{"start":34.405,"end":43.888,"text":"提到的部分其實協助了非常多非相關科系的大學畢業生他們投入相關的增能的領域然後進而進入職場然後跟產業有第一線的合作我一直認為這個計畫其實不僅是平衡了所謂科系的發展"},{"start":50.31,"end":72.016,"text":"其實也協助了年輕人他們在離開大學之後還有其他場域的嘗試的可能性但是我目前想要問一下部長您在這個計畫上您接任部長之後您有沒有回去盤點這個計畫有沒有更可以精進的地方或是更可以調整的地方來自於產業的聲音或者是來自過去歷屆數位踢大使他們給你們的回饋你們有做過相關的會議討論嗎"},{"start":73.776,"end":74.537,"text":"請署長說明一下﹗"},{"start":97.745,"end":127.085,"text":"部長這樣好了沒關係如果今天沒有準備相關資料我們後續辦公室會再跟數法部討論好不好因為確實這也是跟我第二個題目有關確實有非常多的中小企業部長你也知道台灣的5人以下的中小企業可能佔全台灣的比例佔80%到90%所以在面對AI時代的數位轉型我必須要說我相信部長你也知道其實有很多中小企業現在非常非常的焦慮他們可能在前一個"},{"start":128.065,"end":157.014,"text":"前一波的數位轉型就還來不及跟上那在面對AI這件事情他們可能察覺到自己有更多的困境但是我知道經濟部也好或者是數發部你們都有相關的法人不管是在推動課程的增能或者是協助產業的轉型但是有沒有更多積極落地的方法真的可以聽到更多中小企業的聲音跟焦慮因為他們的焦慮來自於對技術的不理解對時代發展趨勢的不理解還有對人才匱乏的焦慮"},{"start":157.634,"end":182.828,"text":"因為所有人才都被吸納到相關產業去了這個部分為什麼我剛剛先提數位替大使也就是說我們看到數發部可能有意識到這個人才匱乏的問題所以我們幫產業補足了人力但是說實話這個情況其實越來越嚴重可能我們原本的數位替大使根本還來不及也不夠那我要拜託數發部可不可以更加積極在協助中小企業面臨這個AI轉型的部分數發部你們的角色會是什麼"},{"start":183.608,"end":211.87,"text":"報告委員我們現在有幾個program像雲市集雲平台就是幫助中小企業能夠很快的去用一些AI的技術那當然我們還有一些補助案子就是一樣在那人才培育我們也這個有些訓練的program包括剛講就是除了T大使我們有從就從高中一路上去都有這樣來來配合跟像我們有些訓練機構像支撐會這些都有在做這樣的一些人才訓練"},{"start":212.642,"end":237.414,"text":"那細節的話是不是請署長再補充好那沒關係部長因為細節齁我時間有限啦齁我的我的是外委會我只有4加1那我想要講其實有更多的細節其實剛剛聽起來可能還有更多跟業界的溝通還是有更多的細節可以調整因為對於業界來說他們尤其是我舉我舉我們最近聽到非常多產業的故事為例喔他們可能是來自過去傳統的所謂工具機產業或者是設備商產業"},{"start":241.576,"end":264.117,"text":"他們知道要跟上AI他們也都看過那個黃仁勛示範那個機器人手臂啊他們也知道設備跟AI晶片結合絕對是下一個時代趨勢但是不管是資金的匱乏人才的不足或者是相關設備原本就不足他們很多的焦慮那我認為數發部應該有更多積極的角色那怎麼樣跟經濟部跨部會合作真的去聽到產業的困境焦慮跟匱乏"},{"start":267.66,"end":280.135,"text":"然後由訴發部、協同經濟部給予更積極的鼓勵跟補助也好、人才培訓也好或是透過法人組織、透過好的計畫、透過好的補助甚至還有業界朋友跟我們建議台灣有很棒的電腦展對嗎?像去年黃仁軒來還造成轟動"},{"start":284.6,"end":284.64,"text":"﹚陳培瑜"},{"start":300.563,"end":301.403,"text":"拜託數法部積極協助經濟部建立這個展的可能性。"},{"start":318.911,"end":318.931,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":333.848,"end":357.44,"text":"因為我當然知道這些中小企業絕對主管機關是經濟部啦可是在透過寫就像如同部長您說的你們有設很多的管我相信你們有很多的業務想要推展到第一線更多的基層的產業那這些他們如何聽懂你們想要告訴他們的你們所想要提供的我相信你們已經有準備了但是如何approach到這些人我覺得這個是未來數位部非常重要的工作好嗎"},{"start":358.662,"end":360.086,"text":"我們後續有非常多討論也會再積極跟你們討論會召開相關會議謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝各位謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1014,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時52分）謝謝主席，有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長，部長午安。"],["黃部長彥男：午安。"],["陳委員培瑜：幾個問題跟您討論，第一個，我主要在教育文化委員會，我們非常關心在AI時代的發展趨勢底下，其實在大學的招生都已經出現了非常多的困難，那當然這個我們在教育文化委員會要解決，可是想要跟您請教，其實數發部長期以來都有在推動數位T大使，T大使這部分其實協助了非常多，非相關科系的大學畢業生投入相關的增能領域，進而進入職場，然後跟產業有第一線的合作。我一直認為這個計畫不僅是平衡了所謂科系的發展，其實也協助了年輕人在離開大學之後，還有嘗試其他場域的可能性。但是我目前想要問一下部長，您在這個計畫上，您接任部長之後，你有沒有回去盤點這個計畫？有沒有可以更精進的地方或是更可以調整的地方，來自於產業的聲音，或者是來自過去歷屆數位T大使他們給你們的回饋，你們有做過相關的會議討論嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，T大使的確是一個很好的idea……"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["黃部長彥男：我們當然希望能夠擴大並且繼續辦理，至於這個計畫的精進或是說下一期，這部分是不是請署長說明一下？"],["陳委員培瑜：或者是之前很多經驗的整理，我覺得對於後續的推動非常重要。部長，沒關係，如果……","部長，這樣好了，沒關係，如果今天沒有準備相關的資料，我們辦公室後續會再跟數發部討論，好不好？因為這也是跟我的第二個題目有關，確實有非常多的中小企業，部長，你也知道，臺灣5人以下的中小企業可能占全臺灣企業的比例達80%到90%，所以在面對AI時代的數位轉型，我必須要說，我相信部長你也知道，其實有很多中小企業現在非常、非常、非常的焦慮。他們可能在前一波的數位轉型就還來不及跟上，在面對AI這件事情，他們可能察覺到自己有更多的困境。","我知道經濟部也好，或者是數發部，你們都有相關的法人，不管是在推動課程的增能，或者是協助產業的轉型，但是有沒有更多積極落地的方法，真的可以聽到更多中小企業的聲音跟焦慮？因為他們的焦慮來自於對技術的不理解，對時代發展趨勢的不理解，還有對人才匱乏的焦慮，因為所有人才都被吸納到相關產業去了。","這個部分為什麼我剛剛先提數位T大使，也就是說我們看到數發部可能有意識到人才匱乏的問題，所以，我們幫產業補足了人力，但是說實話這個情況其實越來越嚴重，可能我們原本的數位T大使根本還來不及，也不夠，那我要拜託數發部，可不可以更加積極在協助中小企業面臨這個AI轉型的部分，數發部你們的角色會是什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們現在有幾個program，像雲市集、雲平臺，就是幫助中小企業能夠很快的去用一些AI的技術，當然我們還有一些補助的案子就是一樣在辦理，人才培育方面我們也有一些訓練的program，包括剛剛講的除了T大使，我們有從高中一路上去都有這樣來配合，我們有一些訓練機構像資策會等等，都有在做這方面的人才訓練，細節的話是不是請署長再補充。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒關係，部長，細節部分因為我的時間有限，我並非本會委員，我的時間只有4加1分鐘。我想要講其實剛剛聽起來有更多的細節，可能還有更多跟業界的溝通，還是有更多的細節可以調整，因為對於業界來說，尤其是我舉我們最近聽到的非常多產業的故事為例，他們可能是來自過去傳統的所謂工具機產業或者是設備商產業，他們知道要跟上AI，他們也都看過黃仁勳示範的那個機器人手臂，他們也知道設備跟AI晶片結合絕對是下一個時代的趨勢，但是不管是資金的匱乏、人才的不足或者是相關設備原本就不足，他們有很多焦慮。","我認為數發部應該有更積極的角色，怎麼樣跟經濟部跨部會合作，真的去聽到產業的困境、焦慮跟匱乏，然後由數發部協同經濟部給予更積極的鼓勵跟補助也好，人才的培訓也好，或是透過法人組織，透過好的計畫，透過好的補助，甚至還有業界朋友跟我們建議，臺灣有很棒的電腦展，對嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：像去年黃仁勳來還造成轟動，可是他們看到另外一個困境，可能在電腦展上面所有這些展示軟硬體的廠商都還不夠了解臺灣中小企業的需求，臺灣有沒有機會創造一個新的平臺，例如說軟硬體整合都是本土廠商的平臺的展，然後讓製造商、設備商可以透過這個展認識所謂新創公司的軟體商，然後軟體商也可以透過這個展去看到更多，原來臺灣的製造業、工具業、設備產業這麼多傳統產業有這麼多的需求，可不可以拜託數發部這邊積極協助經濟部去建立這個平臺、這個展的可能性？"],["黃部長彥男：關於這個展，我想我們再跟經濟部討論，基本上我們在很多展，我們的數產署有些館，我們可以看怎麼樣去協助剛剛委員講的這些廠商，能夠至少在我們這些館裡面有些展示。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，我當然知道這些中小企業的主管機關絕對是經濟部，可是就如同部長您說的，你們有設很多的館，我相信你們也有很多的業務想要推展到第一線更多基層的產業，那這些人他們如何聽懂你們想要告訴他們的，你們所想要提供的，我相信你們已經有準備了，但是如何approach到這些人，我覺得這是未來數位部非常重要的工作。好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：那我們後續有非常多的討論，也會再積極跟你們討論，會召開相關的會議。謝謝主席，謝謝部長，謝謝各位，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員許智傑所提書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請數位發展部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156838","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156838","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66781343b26ce470486f9fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be18318873d924b4585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"12:45:46 - 12:54:48","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:45:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:54:48+08:00","duration":542,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.898468750000003,"end":13.294718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.70721875,"end":20.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.31471875,"end":20.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.242843750000002,"end":26.136593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.33909375,"end":33.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.70096875,"end":33.915968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.94971875,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.50659375,"end":35.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.62471875,"end":35.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.55284375,"end":35.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.85659375,"end":38.556593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.071593750000005,"end":40.564718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.13846875,"end":43.416593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.500968750000006,"end":44.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.71596875,"end":46.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.90971875,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.96784375,"end":53.727218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.94221875,"end":56.477843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.680343750000006,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.91221875,"end":58.266593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.970968750000004,"end":75.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.23159375,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.96846875,"end":84.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.90471875,"end":79.41096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.22471875000001,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.33784375,"end":88.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.43909375000001,"end":88.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.55721875,"end":92.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.72534375000001,"end":101.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.26409375,"end":101.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.90534375,"end":109.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.43659375,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.20409375000001,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.68034375,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.65909375,"end":138.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.19409375,"end":148.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.64471875,"end":150.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.99471875,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.86971875,"end":174.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.56096875,"end":172.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.36659375000002,"end":208.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.20096875000002,"end":209.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.96034375000002,"end":210.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.37784375,"end":210.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.12034375000002,"end":220.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.42284375000003,"end":229.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.49846875,"end":223.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.53159375,"end":226.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.07971875,"end":228.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.73346875000001,"end":245.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.05596875,"end":245.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.91659375,"end":264.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.36346875,"end":248.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.35784375000003,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.20471875000004,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.23846875000004,"end":266.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.99346875000003,"end":284.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.27784375000005,"end":291.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.25221875,"end":285.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.88471875,"end":288.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.65659375,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.59721875,"end":315.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.05659375000005,"end":295.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.55409375,"end":297.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.16971875,"end":301.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.67471875,"end":309.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.66596875000005,"end":311.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.07909375,"end":313.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.01534375,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.01409375000003,"end":324.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.04346875000005,"end":336.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.69659375000003,"end":331.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.67034375000003,"end":337.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.29471875,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.69471875000005,"end":348.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.95971875000004,"end":348.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.71909375,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.15721875,"end":364.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.57346875,"end":385.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.64034375,"end":367.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.47971875,"end":368.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.84221875000003,"end":371.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.39471875000004,"end":372.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.74471875,"end":374.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.46971875,"end":379.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.41471875,"end":380.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.67596875000004,"end":382.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.03409375,"end":385.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.87784375,"end":386.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.92846875000004,"end":387.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.07596875,"end":393.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.33659375,"end":396.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.20971875000004,"end":403.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.00159375000004,"end":406.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.84909375,"end":424.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.97721875,"end":450.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.69471875000005,"end":452.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.10784375000003,"end":455.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.14971875000003,"end":470.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.94221875000005,"end":459.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.67471875,"end":485.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.60284375000003,"end":472.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.68659375000004,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.71971875,"end":480.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.15784375000004,"end":485.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.82846875,"end":499.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.84534375000004,"end":486.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.24409375000005,"end":499.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.86846875000003,"end":501.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.39159375,"end":508.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.96409375,"end":516.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.6297187499999,"end":521.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.99159375,"end":537.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.93159375,"end":533.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.4453437500001,"end":535.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.4028437500001,"end":536.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.1072187500001,"end":540.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.5122187500001,"end":539.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.11534375,"end":541.3303437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.159,"end":40.394,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請部長。請陳部長。好,部長我想先請教一個問題喔。因為剛剛我看到那個綠烈溪大局嘛齁。我想問一下,在綠烈溪我們到底它算是野生動物呢還是算是動保法管轄的?應該是外來種吧。外來種。入侵種,應該叫入侵種。入侵種,那它算是野保法還是動保法來管啊?"},{"start":41.472,"end":53.197,"text":"應該是野保法?就是我們,你們可不可以回答一下吧?我們已經依照那個野保法31條公告為那個外來入侵種,所以現在在處理。"},{"start":55.137,"end":74.429,"text":"根據野保法根據野保法他是野保法我覺得這個野保法今天雖然是要討論動保法但我想野保法跟動保法的界限我之前的質詢一直是非常不清楚的所以因為待會我會分享一個案例因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼是用動保法來處置"},{"start":76.09,"end":92.085,"text":"所以我們剛剛確定了綠列型在野保法那梅花鹿也在野保法嗎?對不對?他們造成的農損梅花鹿不一樣,梅花鹿是被界定為家畜所以它不是動保法也不是野保法"},{"start":93.267,"end":97.493,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正"},{"start":110.751,"end":138.249,"text":"就是說我們現在呢造成農損的因為其實之前也有一些新聞嘛就是有遊蕩犬貓造成了非常大量的農損就是雞被吃光了然後或者是說有人受傷害了人在這個過程之中車禍因為遊蕩犬他為了閃接遊蕩犬貓就他車禍了那我想問一下就是說上次我其實跟部長在討論說部長有說在生態樂區首先我們先來處理生態樂區是禁止餵養的"},{"start":139.15,"end":141.391,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":149.69,"end":171.294,"text":"但是他有說因為樂區並不是法律用詞所以針對餵食的行為如果導致環境污染地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開發至於保護區則有相關法規依據可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食這是他的回應那我想要了解我們目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實呢"},{"start":174.415,"end":191.997,"text":"我跟委員報告的確我們在處理這些流浪犬的部分還有跟野生動物之間的關係禁止維養是事主的重要責任那一旦禁止一定要有法有法可罰啦但是現在是因為在熱區我們找不到法"},{"start":192.458,"end":192.838,"text":"條文修正草案"},{"start":211.238,"end":228.747,"text":"那這個部分我想我們應該可以立即來處理我我跟應該跟黃委員講大概幾個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內就會提供相關一個月之內嗎那也麻煩提到我們好我再提供給委員因為我想因為剛剛有講四組責任這件事情就是說因為其實已經有一些判例啦有一些判例是說"},{"start":230.007,"end":244.521,"text":"他可能是養在外面他就是把他養在馬路上面就造成了這個有人車禍死亡等等的這個判例就歸罪說就歸因回說這個其實是有人飼養的"},{"start":245.982,"end":248.585,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":265.32,"end":290.99,"text":"我們可不可以來做這件事情呢?對,我想非常謝謝委員的提醒就是我們收集了一些在判例的部分針對你如果沒有做好你的事主的責任的時候你還是會觸犯了相關的法律包括餵養的部分這個部分我想我們收集案例以後去宣導可能更有效果但是其實現在已經有一些判例了啦那我自己覺得說因為其實不管是檢察院的報告也好媒體的報導也好因為它的確造成了"},{"start":291.67,"end":296.072,"text":"本院委員林宜玲等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":316.201,"end":336.031,"text":"還是非常重要必須要做進一步的去宣導好嗎還有這些法是不是也可以把它扣回去在修法的部分那再來就是說我在這次的修法上面也有看到就是有提到有些委員有提這個山豬釣的版本那我不曉得說農業部的立場是怎麼樣因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬釣的"},{"start":337.392,"end":339.573,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":353.2,"end":355.201,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":374.154,"end":379.476,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案"},{"start":404.036,"end":405.183,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":407.878,"end":427.185,"text":"就是回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的問題一個奇妙的狀態就11月初彰化發生民眾闖入佛寺並且驅趕了室內的數百隻台灣葉比蝙蝠導致數十隻的蝙蝠掉落死亡最後是以動保法開罰動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五預計要開罰那這就顯示說動保法跟野保法之間還是會有一些問題到底哪些因為現在"},{"start":436.048,"end":462.757,"text":"兩部法規寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物保育類、野生動物都有一些相關的法則來避免不當的侵擾但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候他無法可管耶最後我們就變成用動保法來管我跟委員報告這個新聞可能後面的處罰可能還有一些疑義因為要用動保法的話就是一定是要人為飼養的"},{"start":464.338,"end":467.56,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":486.388,"end":488.79,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":504.117,"end":521.022,"text":"的一些競合的部分我們會更清楚的釐清因為野保法已經進到立法院了動保法可能在12月就進來我希望說在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清所以我們會盡快的去處理這個我最後爭取一件事情因為在動保法修法的時候我們是不是可以有一些野生動物團、野保法的團體"},{"start":522.082,"end":531.192,"text":"一起來做一些討論呢?因為這樣子才可以知道說我改來這個到野保法可能會影響到哪些部分才能夠確保一體性﹖好謝謝不好意思張委員這個可以嗎?我知道我知道我是說我們是不是可以一起來討論?好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1076,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好，我想先請教一個問題，剛剛看到綠鬣蜥大軍，牠算是野生動物呢？還是算動保法管轄的範圍？"],["陳部長駿季：應該是外來種，應該叫入侵種。"],["張委員雅琳：牠是野保法還是動保法來管？"],["陳部長駿季：應該是野保法。"],["林副署長澔貞：我們已經依照野保法第三十一條公告為外來入侵種，現在在處理。"],["張委員雅琳：根據野保法。雖然今天是討論動保法，但是我想野保法和動保法的界線一直是非常不清楚的，我待會會分享一個案例，因為我也分不清楚這到底為什麼用動保法來處置。我們剛才確認了綠鬣蜥在野保法，梅花鹿也在野保法，對不對？牠們造成的農損……"],["陳部長駿季：梅花鹿不一樣，梅花鹿被界定為家畜，所以牠不是動保法，也不是野保法。"],["張委員雅琳：我想確定一下，綠鬣蜥在野保法裡面，牠造成農損之後，我們其實有做一些移除的動作，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["張委員雅琳：因為我們不希望牠繁殖得非常多，侵害原生種和農民的權益。請教一下，因為之前有一些新聞，流浪犬貓造成非常大量的農損，雞被吃光了，或者有人受傷害了，人在這個過程中車禍，因為為了閃避遊蕩犬貓而車禍。上次我跟部長討論時，部長有說先來處理生態熱區禁止餵養，其實在11月10日「為野生動物而走」聯盟也有這樣的訴求，動保司陳中興副司長在受訪的時候也說我們禁止，但是他說因為熱區並非法律用詞，所以針對餵養、餵食的行為如果導致環境污染，地方政府就可以用廢清法來進行開罰，至於保護區則有相關法規依據，可能由內政部或地方政府公告禁止餵食。這是他的回應，我想瞭解目前有沒有相關的規劃進度來真的落實？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們在處理流浪犬和野生動物之間的關係，禁止餵養是飼主重要的責任，一旦禁止，一定要有法可罰，但是現在熱區的部分找不到法，剛才洪申翰委員也特別提到我們有框定自然保護區，有明確的區域時，我們就可以訂那個法，所以對於禁止餵養的部分，會先從自然保護區的部分去處理。"],["張委員雅琳：進度呢？"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分應該可以立即來處理，1個月之內就會提供相關的資料。"],["張委員雅琳：也麻煩提供給我們辦公室。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們再提供給委員。"],["張委員雅琳：剛剛有講到飼主責任這件事，因為其實有一些判例，他可能養在外面，就是把牠養在馬路上面，造成有人車禍死亡等等，判例就會歸因於這是有人飼養的，雖然牠是放養，但還是有養，飼主責任的部分我覺得還是非常重要，所以是不是可以依據相關的判例來做一些宣導，讓大家知道如果你今天餵食，當發生人狗衝突的時候，其實在法律上你還是有相關的責任。我們可不可以來做這件事情？"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員的提醒，我們蒐集一些判例，針對沒有做好飼主責任的時候，還是會觸犯相關的法律，包括餵養的部分，這部分我們蒐集案例以後去宣導，可能更有效果。"],["張委員雅琳：現在其實已經有一些判例了，不管是監察院的報告也好，媒體的報導也好，因為的確造成了人的受傷，甚至死亡，甚至剛才講的綠鬣蜥大軍，小孩看了很可怕，遊蕩犬大軍對小孩來講也是很可怕，所以我們是不是應該要讓大家瞭解，在現在的時代，對於動物不是只要養牠而不照顧牠，牠的生活、牠的健康都不管，我們應該還是要好好去照顧牠的健康，我覺得飼主責任的教育還是非常重要，必須要做進一步的宣導，好嗎？還有這些法是不是也可以扣回去，就是在修法的部分？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["張委員雅琳：再者，我在這次的修法也有看到有些委員提到山豬吊的版本，農業部的立場是怎樣？因為在野保法上面是沒有山豬吊的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我剛才說了動保法和野保法有連動，在野保法部分，因為還有一些原住民文化狩獵的需求，我們尊重，同時，我們也提到山豬吊危險是因為它的索徑太細，所以我們有一些改良式的套索，那時候我也在委員會承諾修法通過以後，一年之內，我們把改良式的……"],["張委員雅琳：其實我瞭解，我知道林業署有做一些改良式的山豬吊來滿足原住民的狩獵行為，也可以保護到一些誤觸的野生動物或遊蕩犬，但我的意思是說現在動保法裡面有放這個版本，我們是不是可以考量跟野保法……"],["陳部長駿季：對，一併處理。"],["張委員雅琳：因為實務上面要怎麼運作會有問題存在，所以我只是想了解部長的看法是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：動保法和野保法未來會有一致性，不會動保法禁止，而野保法不禁止，我們會有一致性。"],["張委員雅琳：這到底要怎麼判？這是實務上面的問題。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會傾向於還是一樣用公告的方式，不在這邊直接明禁，給予它一段的時間去處理。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一個問題，回到我剛剛講的我覺得很奇妙的狀態，10月初彰化發生民眾衝入佛寺並且驅趕了寺內的數百隻臺灣葉鼻蝙蝠，導致數十隻蝙蝠掉落死亡，最後是預計以動保法開罰一萬五到七萬五，這顯示動保法和野保法之間會有一些問題，因為兩部法規在寵物、經濟動物、實驗動物、保育類野生動物都有一些相關的罰則來避免不當的侵擾，但是如果不在野保法裡面規定的野生動物保育區內的野生動物受到不當騷擾的時候，它無法可管，最後變成用動保法來管。"],["陳部長駿季：這個新聞後面的處罰可能還有些疑義，因為要用動保法的話，一定要是人為飼養的才會適用動保法，這個新聞講用動保法裁罰，我們覺得有點疑義。"],["張委員雅琳：這就是個問題，在野保法和動保法的確還有些東西要再釐清，我知道有在討論，但我覺得這兩部法在修法的時候都應該一併同時來盤點，才能夠確保法官在實務面的執行上真的可以有正確的法律來援引，這也才能夠真正保障到一些生物多樣性需要去保育的野生動物，好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝委員，我剛才也說了，動保法和野保法之間競合的部分，我們會更清楚的釐清，因為野保法已經進到立法院了，動保法可能在12月就進來，我希望在修法的過程中就能夠把它釐清，所以我們會儘快的去處理這個問題。"],["張委員雅琳：我最後爭取一件事情，動保法修法的時候，是不是可以有一些野保法的團體一起來討論？因為這樣才可以知道我改了野保法可能會影響到哪些部分，才能夠確保一體性。"],["陳部長駿季：這個可能立法院……"],["主席：好，謝謝。張委員，公聽會才可以找他們討論。"],["張委員雅琳：我知道，我是說可不可以一起來討論。"],["陳部長駿季：我很樂意，不過要尊重立法院。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","請陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷委員不在。","請洪孟楷、洪孟楷、洪孟楷委員不在。","請徐巧芯、徐巧芯、徐巧芯委員不在。","請徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩委員不在。","請陳培瑜、陳培瑜、陳培瑜委員不在。","登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員徐欣瑩、邱議瑩、張嘉郡、陳冠廷、邱志偉所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156836","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156836","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667871d51d837e2f04a356f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be0a97a5adeee0372c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"12:40:33 - 12:46:47","影片長度":"00:06:14","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:40:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:46:47+08:00","duration":374,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":2.4778437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.10221875,"end":3.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.586593750000002,"end":32.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.57846875,"end":37.510343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.85659375,"end":45.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.424718750000004,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.38659375,"end":50.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.820968750000006,"end":48.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.048468750000005,"end":65.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.330968750000004,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.19346875000001,"end":77.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.17596875000001,"end":72.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.79534375,"end":125.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.77409375,"end":78.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.02346875,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.08909375000002,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.61596875,"end":145.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.25284375,"end":149.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.45909375000002,"end":166.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.31284375,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.93346875,"end":192.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.02534375000002,"end":198.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.39659375000002,"end":198.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.44721875000002,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.53159375,"end":198.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.64971875,"end":200.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.02909375000002,"end":224.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.74659375000002,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.61534375000002,"end":249.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.96659375000002,"end":315.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.98159375,"end":333.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.25721875000005,"end":364.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.18721875,"end":351.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.61159375,"end":367.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.19721875000005,"end":373.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.61034375,"end":370.30221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.606,"end":2.168,"text":"謝謝召委 有請部長部長"},{"start":8.615,"end":31.606,"text":"委員好好部長今天有審查貨物稅條例剛剛我們陳玉正委員跟我們一些委員也有一個修正動議關於機車的貨物稅的調整我們也希望能夠極力來爭取也希望財政部這部分能夠納入考量那今天我想先請問一下部長您有沒有最近或者是有這樣的經驗去過預售屋巡駕房屋的一個價格"},{"start":33.592,"end":40.557,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等27人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員陳冠廷等28人、委員"},{"start":56.508,"end":65.314,"text":"竟然最大的是我們的公股我想這一部分應該要實際來做檢討我們就是實際在幫建商在養地嘛您認同嗎?"},{"start":67.493,"end":94.985,"text":"這個部分我們銀行公股銀行都已經納入這個部分所以是不是應該檢討對於超過18個月而沒有動工的購地貸款都有在做檢查所以我從前面的我們去預售屋的一個巡駕到現在整個18月未動工這部分應該整體來做一個環環相扣的一個考量後續我要再提到的是自從2012年12月提出的清安貸款到2023年8月又進一步推出新清安貸款這十幾年來房價不斷的飆漲"},{"start":95.745,"end":125.068,"text":"新資所得成長卻非常有限通膨又再加上來本席想問的是到底這十幾年來有沒有追蹤歷年申請核准清安後在這個寬限期結束後還能繼續繳交每月本期的有多少人或者是連寬限期都還沒有結束就已經斷頭的十幾年下來還能夠按部就班交貸款的有多少有沒有這個數據"},{"start":129.734,"end":140.349,"text":"從開始辦一直到現在他的違約率其實只有0.04%換言之絕大部分的貸款戶都是依約在繳還本息的"},{"start":141.138,"end":166.136,"text":"好 如果有統計的數據能不能在散會後給這個本席以及財政委員會所有委員一份資料是 我們在提供書面的統計資料好 我要講的是如果2023年以前的親安貸款戶大多都能夠繼續繳交貸款推出新親安的這個精進方案我們當然樂觀其成可是現在我們看到新親安的精進方案它已經變相吸引年輕人入坑你有感覺到嗎"},{"start":167.349,"end":189.036,"text":"委員我想不是變相吸引年輕人入坑我們其實在這個統計裡面我們知道這個部分其實雖然我們有放寬限期到5年事實上沒有用寬限期的佔了51%3年的佔了14%5年的是25%所以大部分的青年人買了以後他還是希望能夠盡快還清他的貸款本金"},{"start":191.997,"end":218.553,"text":"所以我想他們在買房子的時候一定有經過相關的財務上的一些評估那為什麼最近我們還會去做檢討呢我想我一直以來都跟部長在講您的數據有沒有錯可是跟實際面會不會有一點點不一樣或者是很大大的不一樣我想這個部分到底經濟方案從寬限期從3年延到5年房貸期限從30年延長到40年本席想請教部長一個刑犯的一個問題請問凌遲30刀"},{"start":221.135,"end":224.777,"text":"陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠廷等19人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":250.214,"end":274.031,"text":"這就是我們現在對於年輕人他接收到了清安貸款他可能不知道整個後續的安排但你們的數據裡面卻只告訴我們說沒有啊能夠持續繳交貸款的還很多啊我想跟實際面真的有一些差距現在年輕人很多都買不起房根本的原因就是房價不斷的飆漲薪水又沒有什麼增加30年的房貸之下買不起40年的房貸則算成現在的總本"},{"start":275.772,"end":301.572,"text":"立和更是買不起利息雖然有補貼一碼半但還是要繳交我想坦白講本席認為就算無息只要償還本金很多人還是買不起根本的問題就是房價高到買不起所以又何必從30年拉長到40年呢寬限期從3年延長到5年讓人以為買得起一旦寬限期一過讓整個聯盟代理暴漲的金額我想年輕人真的是最後會承擔整個風險"},{"start":302.833,"end":314.912,"text":"跟斷頭的一個問題整個新清安貸款現在所面臨到的問題從媒體不斷的報導從實際我們所接觸到的問題我希望財政部能夠更全面的去了解來解決 可以嗎"},{"start":316.101,"end":333.415,"text":"陳委員報告我們銀行在核貸的時候都會讓當事人知道試算給他看他如果用幾年的寬限期以後每月繳交多少錢都會算給他而且我們的銀行在核貸的時候也會了解他的收入狀況這個在核貸之前都會做相關的審核的"},{"start":334.315,"end":361.164,"text":"我想從你的口中所提到的讓我來感覺到我們現在所面臨到的問題是真正無殼蝸牛他買不起房沒辦法去做這樣子的一個行為而你們一直在反映的是這些人他們都有經濟能力他們繳得起那他到底是不是心清安真正要解決的這些無殼蝸牛的青年我們都有待考驗所以我希望真正解決到青年無殼蝸牛他們第一次購房的一個需求"},{"start":361.684,"end":363.808,"text":"謝謝羅廷惟委員部長那個書面的報告給羅廷惟委員謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1411,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時40分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，今天審查貨物稅條例，剛剛陳玉珍委員跟我們一些委員也有一個修正動議，關於機車的貨物稅的調整，我們也希望能夠極力來爭取，也希望財政部這部分能夠納入考量。今天我想先請問一下，部長，您有沒有這樣的經驗，就是去過預售屋詢價房屋的價格。"],["莊部長翠雲：有去詢價，那我個人自己沒有……"],["羅委員廷瑋：最近沒有購屋的需求啦，那您知道預售屋的價格基本上可能每個月的價格都不太一樣嗎？同一個樓層、同一戶，您知道嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是有可能……"],["羅委員廷瑋：每個月的波動是非常高的。"],["莊部長翠雲：每個月市場在做調整。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以剛剛有委員在關心所謂18個月未動工購地的貸款竟然最大的是公股，我想這一部分應該要實際來做檢討，我們實際就是在幫建商在養地，您認同嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們公股銀行都已經納入這個部分去做處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這是不是應該檢討？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於超過18個月而沒有動工的購地貸款都有在做檢查。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我從前面的預售屋詢價，到現在整個18月未動工，這部分應該整體來做一個環環相扣的考量。接著我要再提到的是，自從2012年12月提出的青安貸款，到2023年8月又進一步推出新青安貸款，這十幾年來房價不斷的飆漲，薪資所得成長卻非常有限，通膨又再加上來，本席想問的是到底這十幾年來有沒有追蹤歷年申請核准青安後，在這個寬限期結束後還能繼續繳交每月本息的有多少人？或者是連寬限期都還沒有結束就已經斷頭的，十幾年下來還能夠按部就班交貸款的有多少？有沒有這個數據？"],["莊部長翠雲：從開辦一直到現在，違約率其實只有0.04%，換言之，絕大部分的貸款戶都是依約在繳還本息的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，如果有統計的數據，能不能在散會後提供給本席及財政委員會所有委員一份資料？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們會提供書面的統計資料。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我要講的是，如果2023年以前的青安貸款戶大多都能夠繼續繳交貸款，推出新青安這個精進方案，我們當然樂觀其成，可是現在我們看到新青安的精進方案，它已經變相吸引年輕人入坑，你有感覺到嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我想不是變相吸引年輕人入坑，其實在這個統計裡面，我們知道雖然有放寬限期到5年，事實上沒有用寬限期的占了51%，3年的占了14%，5年的是25%，所以大部分的青年人買了以後，他還是希望能夠儘快還清貸款本金。實際上，他們在買房子的時候一定有經過相關的財務上的評估。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那為什麼最近我們還會去做檢討呢？我一直以來都跟部長講，您的數據沒有錯，可是跟實際面會不會有一點點不一樣？或者是大大的不一樣？精進方案寬限期從3年延到5年，房貸期限從30年延長到40年，本席想請教部長一個死刑犯的問題，請問凌遲30刀處死跟凌遲40刀處死，最後的結果有什麼差別？"],["莊部長翠雲：什麼30刀跟40刀？"],["羅委員廷瑋：30年跟40年最後所落得的下場，對這些年輕人來說還是一樣，他因為入了這個坑，之後沒辦法繳交寬限期後的連本帶利，導致最後……很多的產業就講，可能等5年後比較適合進場，因為有一堆斷頭戶。現在年輕人接收到了新青安貸款，他可能不知道整個後續的安排，但你們的數據裡面卻只告訴我們沒有啊，你說能夠持續繳交貸款的還很多啊，我想跟實際面真的有一些差距。現在很多年輕人都買不起房子，根本的原因就是房價不斷的飆漲，薪水又沒有什麼增加，30年的房貸之下買不起，40年的房貸折算成現在的總本利和更是買不起，利息雖然有補貼一碼半，但還是要繳交。坦白講，本席認為就算無息，只要償還本金，很多人還是買不起，根本的問題就是房價高到買不起，所以又何必從30年拉長到40年呢？寬限期從3年延長到5年，讓人以為買得起，一旦寬限期一過，整個連本帶利暴漲的金額，我想這真的是年輕人最後會承擔整個風險跟斷頭的一個問題。","整個新青安貸款現在所面臨到的問題，從媒體不斷的報導，從實際我們所接觸到的問題，我希望財政部能夠更全面的去瞭解並解決，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們銀行在核貸的時候都會讓當事人知道，試算給他看，他如果用幾年的寬限期，以後每月繳交多少錢，都會算給他，而且我們的銀行在核貸的時候也會瞭解他的收入狀況，這個在核貸之前都會做相關的審核。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想從你的口中所聽到的，讓我感覺到我們現在所面臨到的問題是真正的無殼蝸牛買不起房，沒辦法去做這樣子的行為，而你們一直在反應的是，這些人他們都有經濟能力，他們繳得起，那他到底是不是新青安真正要解決的無殼蝸牛的青年？我們都有待考驗，我希望真正能夠解決到青年無殼蝸牛他們第一次購房的需求。"],["莊部長翠雲：新青安的目的就是這個。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","部長，請提供一個書面報告給羅廷瑋委員，謝謝。","請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接著請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156835","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156835","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678cec7a9ad75f820ae06c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be4447f47351fe5e595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:32:43 - 12:44:07","影片長度":"00:11:24","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:32:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:44:07+08:00","duration":684,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.10659375,"end":4.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.384718750000001,"end":5.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.25284375,"end":11.691593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.434093750000002,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.445968750000006,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.73284375,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.875968750000006,"end":49.221593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.221593750000004,"end":49.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.267843750000004,"end":50.909093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.516593750000006,"end":57.625343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.57471875,"end":66.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.14284375,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.79221875,"end":74.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.94784375,"end":75.20909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.95596875000001,"end":88.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.87784375000001,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.09721875000001,"end":101.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.41596875,"end":102.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.35659375,"end":106.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.56284375000001,"end":106.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.20409375000001,"end":110.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.69284375000001,"end":116.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.31221875000001,"end":132.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.58409375000002,"end":132.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.61784375000002,"end":132.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.73596875,"end":142.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.30034375,"end":146.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.02534375000002,"end":144.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.37971875,"end":147.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.60721875000002,"end":149.50971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.50971875000002,"end":157.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.56034375000002,"end":151.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.98159375,"end":154.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.25534375,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.52534375000002,"end":166.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.70534375,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.37596875,"end":168.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.46846875,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.42909375000002,"end":193.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.06159375000001,"end":182.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.35159375,"end":189.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.62159375000002,"end":190.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.63409375,"end":192.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.50284375,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.77284375000002,"end":197.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.47284375,"end":197.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.90721875,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.21096875,"end":200.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.82659375,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.73784375000002,"end":202.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.40846875000003,"end":204.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.31409375,"end":213.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.33409375000002,"end":220.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.64159375000003,"end":232.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.31534375,"end":232.48409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.48409375000003,"end":233.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.02409375000002,"end":258.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.22221875000002,"end":234.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.30659375000002,"end":234.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.42471875,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.34159375000002,"end":253.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.16784375000003,"end":262.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.14596875,"end":265.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.04846875000004,"end":267.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.36034375,"end":269.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.45284375,"end":273.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.65909375,"end":274.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.14846875,"end":278.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.10971875,"end":286.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.34471875,"end":301.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.29596875000004,"end":308.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.32034375,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.29471875,"end":318.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.02346875,"end":318.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.41159375,"end":320.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.42846875000004,"end":319.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.03159375,"end":325.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":325.09409375,"end":330.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.03846875000005,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.96659375,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.03409375,"end":346.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.88159375000004,"end":335.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.42409375,"end":347.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.13284375,"end":347.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.16221875,"end":350.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.91284375000004,"end":353.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.95034375,"end":357.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.37596875,"end":367.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.00721875000005,"end":371.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.38659375000003,"end":384.84846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.62659375000004,"end":373.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.84846875000005,"end":385.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.70909375,"end":389.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.79284375000003,"end":390.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.46346875,"end":392.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.04971875,"end":394.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.42909375000005,"end":396.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.52596875,"end":396.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.52159375,"end":404.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.43596875000003,"end":407.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":407.44409375000004,"end":414.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.05471875,"end":415.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.08846875,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.10534375000003,"end":415.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.24846875000003,"end":438.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.44596875,"end":422.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.11034375,"end":441.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.81846875,"end":445.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.91909375,"end":446.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.18909375000004,"end":446.71221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.08346875,"end":451.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.62284375,"end":454.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.64346875,"end":457.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.11971875,"end":460.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.54971875,"end":461.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.86159375000005,"end":464.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.34659375,"end":464.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.49846875000003,"end":464.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.70909375,"end":467.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.46409375,"end":480.93471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":481.15409375,"end":494.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.53596875000005,"end":501.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.04534375000003,"end":503.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.73284375000003,"end":504.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.62721875000005,"end":508.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.81221875000006,"end":513.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.6553437499999,"end":515.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.4734687499999,"end":518.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":518.46471875,"end":525.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.37096875,"end":528.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.1128437500001,"end":533.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.8172187499999,"end":531.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.12909375,"end":533.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.4665937500001,"end":533.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.7490937499999,"end":536.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.79096875,"end":539.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.2547187499999,"end":539.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.82846875,"end":543.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.82784375,"end":545.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.9709687500001,"end":554.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.06659375,"end":558.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.8928437500001,"end":584.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.5134687500001,"end":595.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.7322187500001,"end":588.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.7522187500001,"end":596.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.8490937500001,"end":601.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.6084687499999,"end":598.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.8315937500001,"end":604.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.7590937500001,"end":608.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.22284375,"end":608.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.18471875,"end":610.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.7197187500001,"end":615.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.2765937500001,"end":615.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.81659375,"end":616.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.18784375,"end":616.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.5590937500001,"end":617.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.66034375,"end":616.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.81221875,"end":621.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.39784375,"end":624.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.9965937500001,"end":625.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.04721875,"end":625.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.06409375,"end":625.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.1484687500001,"end":633.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.19909375,"end":625.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.80096875,"end":654.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.75971875,"end":657.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.08846875,"end":659.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.34971875,"end":665.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":665.85096875,"end":666.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.6272187500001,"end":669.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.34409375,"end":673.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.9509687500001,"end":676.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":676.9209687500002,"end":677.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.3259687500001,"end":679.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.51971875,"end":683.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.9622187500001,"end":683.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.4853437500001,"end":683.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.6203437500001,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.97471875,"end":684.1772187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.108,"end":2.128,"text":"黃國昌議員"},{"start":12.532,"end":34.194,"text":"是 我想速發部大家國人很關心跟重視的當然都是打詐騙的議題打詐的議題本期也下載了網路詐騙通報查詢網的這個APP那其中裡面我有看到一個統計啊我想這個APP已經上線一個多月了嘛大家都有通報大家都有這個統計相關資料其中詐騙媒介"},{"start":35.996,"end":48.942,"text":"就是本席跟國人大家所關心就是說到底這些廣告都在哪裡做詐騙哪裡讓民眾獲得這個資訊部長有沒有掌握詐騙媒介現在的平台裡面最多還是在臉書臉書那再來勒"},{"start":51.57,"end":63.355,"text":"再來就是應該就是就是說臉書以外就是LINE啊、Google啊、然後像TikTok您看一下你的詐騙媒介我拉30天的資料總共10萬筆將近11萬筆"},{"start":67.202,"end":83.301,"text":"六萬筆是臉書兩萬三千筆是IG、Instagram其實也是臉書的再來MetaMessage四千九百筆將近五千筆還有Meta的廣告聯播網一萬八千筆"},{"start":84.142,"end":110.041,"text":"所以其實光臉書的一個百分之九十、九十幾都是他們相關的系統真正你剛剛說講Google只有13311萬裡面只佔了133而Live只佔了681都是不到千位所以換言之九成都是臉書相關系統那既然已經知道大宗的部分在那邊了"},{"start":111.718,"end":132.57,"text":"那我們除了繼續給國人通報繼續被動的下架那我們主動積極的作為在哪裡臉書它可以賺那麼多錢它可以接受廣告沒有問題你要去做社群正常的廣告我們當然歡迎這個是正常的市場機制啊但是不能給詐騙集團投放廣告啊"},{"start":133.09,"end":156.166,"text":"對所以報告委員所以我們現在為什麼要通過打詐釋法裡面尤其關於這個這個廣告平台已經通過了上個會期已經通過了我現在叫7月16已經通過了7月12已經通過了沒錯所以我們現在到現在11月13所以我們四個月過去我們做了什麼事所以現在他們第一個他們要在台灣設華為代表跟落地10月30他們已經申請了"},{"start":157.947,"end":184.721,"text":"11月3日我們會公告就是這個這個我們這些支法這個什麼他們有件事一定要做就是廣告實名制就是說過去的剛剛講說什麼詐騙都是這個是本身上一次在同樣交通委員會的時候我就要求的嘛現在更有數據佐證的就是高達九成九成五以上我們臺灣的詐騙樣態類型都是從他們的一個母公司出來所以Meta是我們最關心的那我們是在剛剛講就是我們已經跟Meta"},{"start":185.501,"end":203.981,"text":"所謂的喝咖啡包括他們派美國的技術專家來跟我們討論喝咖啡喝很多但是他還是知意妄為啊所以現在已經跟他講了那咖啡如果說喝咖啡真的不行那是不是可以請他喝禁酒沒有沒有禁酒如果不行的話請他喝罰酒罰酒沒錯罰酒就在1月初就開始要罰了明年1月對"},{"start":204.582,"end":204.842,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":223.995,"end":250.793,"text":"拜託先道德勸說第二就是用法律來要求他要配合希望這樣的結果就是說我們再也不會看到這種所謂假公眾人物部長源頭管理才是重點不要累壞我們第一線的警務同仁或是累壞我們所有其實我們說用這個通報機制大家要再通報你已經看到要再通報那何不從源頭管理尤其是我們已經上線一個月了我覺得用你的這個數字就很清楚明白的認證驗證我們廣告來源詐騙廣告來源到底在哪裡"},{"start":253.835,"end":278.04,"text":"那如果說您剛剛有提到是可以源頭管理的話那本席也想請教另外一個部分就是我也在不管是外環委員會、交通委員會到現在交通委員會Google上面我搜尋啊電子煙啊我不知道你有沒有搜尋過但是你只要搜尋電子煙電子煙現在是不合法的在台灣那結果我們搜尋反而它的官方網站持續在那邊"},{"start":279.286,"end":301.644,"text":"那衛福部居然跟我們講是說國民健康署跟我們講是說已經把後面有點TW的給下架了但是沒有啊但是重點是現在Google我相信所有的同仁你現在Google打開電子煙三個字一搜尋官方網站馬上出來而且製作的華麗精美程度甚至裡面還有衛教告訴你有多少口味多少等等的"},{"start":302.324,"end":330.239,"text":"那這難道不是違禁品可以讓我們大剌剌的再搜尋搜尋得到那速發部到底有什麼樣的因應作為我們基本上對這種廣告就是剛講這種廣告我們是有一個機制叫RPG是可以把它封網就是說天子解析啦是部長這件事情應該已經討論了因為他是一直自始至終都不合法對所以我們有在在這裡面再做一些剛講搜尋以後衛福部有沒有找你們討論過"},{"start":331.64,"end":350.278,"text":"因為我相信有這個技術有這個機制啊但是我不知道說後面誰有多深深到就是沒有一個部會敢動他們我們那時候講說上個會期因為那個信私密影像什麼創意私房還是那個論壇一天就可以封網啦我就搜尋不到了"},{"start":351.139,"end":367.829,"text":"結果這一個議題我從未還委員會質詢衛福部長衛福部長說要找速發部討論沒下文教育部長沒下文那到現在速發部長速發部長我請教你說也可以封完我相信技術絕對做得到啊"},{"start":368.189,"end":394.429,"text":"但是我們不能隨便封他們要跟我們講所以不能隨便封他現在賣的是一個不合法的產品這個產品是在台灣不允許販賣的他就是一個非法的東西甚至為什麼我們講說他相關重要是因為他有可能會搭載毒品然後他可能會引誘青少年吸食止煙啊我們去便利商店買便利商店店員都還要看身份證"},{"start":395.695,"end":422.806,"text":"電子煙不用因為我網路購買不會檢查身份我寄送到便利商店貨到付款我去付款取貨也不會檢查身份那會不會反而是更嚴重對所以我們現在的機制是只要衛福部通知我們哪些網頁要封我們就去封但是封網的決定是來自衛福部部長所以現在這樣又是互推皮球了就是我們的機制因為我們我們蘇花部要有法才能夠去封那問題這個法的"},{"start":424.087,"end":425.388,"text":"好很好來那我請教我們講到現在這樣子我"},{"start":441.886,"end":461.233,"text":"到目前為止聽起來我是肯定因為數位發展部是有這樣的工具所以有沒有任何人可以回答我過去這段時間我相信我們召委民進黨國民黨民眾黨大家都有問過啦衛福部有沒有來找我們數位發展部要來做封網衛福部有沒有來找數位發展部討論過應該要讓他下架關於電子煙有沒有目前有嗎"},{"start":468.633,"end":493.081,"text":"委員我大概回應一下那基本上委員垂詢的確實是一個問題那我們已經跟衛福部協調點滴那部分目前為止才有兩個機制一個就是如果是點滴要註冊的話我們就把相關資料移給衛福部有衛福部國民健康署去做採儲如果沒有這個資料的話我們就把它封掉那另外一個部分的話是平台的部分我們也積極的協調相關平台業者如果有這種電子菸的話也會做儲存"},{"start":494.701,"end":494.821,"text":"拜託委員"},{"start":516.676,"end":525.339,"text":"拜託委員根據我衛福部的資料Facebook目前的案件是最多跟詐騙一樣5916件拜託委員那個私下網站是307件您是?市院司司長"},{"start":537.623,"end":558.315,"text":"資源師牛信仁師長牛師長你完全沒有聽懂本席的問題我現在沒有在討論平台我們Google打開現在搜尋你不用任何的技術你不用任何的關鍵字你打電子煙三個字就可以搜尋到洋洋灑灑官方網站做的比誰都精美"},{"start":559.943,"end":583.379,"text":"那我現在問的是說過去剛剛部長已經講了嘛如果說衛福部因為法院在衛福部主管機關是衛福部如果衛福部要求速發部速發部可以執行封網的動作啊那所以我現在想要問的是那到底過去那麼多時間來是衛福部有要求速發部速發部沒有動作還是衛福部自始至終他身為主管機關就是沒有沒有沒有討論所以才能放任他們持續在那邊販售"},{"start":584.7,"end":609.869,"text":"委員現在在上次的教育委員會您也垂詢到這問題所以衛福部現在正在召開跨部會的協調會議那也提供請各部會提供資料給衛福部看我們能夠協助什麼那還要多久還要多久衛福部的討論那基本上現在是在比誰放水的比較多是不是還要多久還是給大家最後一段時間趕快喔要封了清倉大拍賣"},{"start":614.741,"end":632.984,"text":"部長,我說實在我很實在話講很持平的來說這背後利益有多龐大我都不敢想但是如果說它真的是一個不合法的東西中華民國是個法治的國家我們不應該放任不合法的東西持續的販售"},{"start":635.246,"end":653.993,"text":"如果說我們所有的部會都不作為你推我我推你其實這件事情我就看得很明顯就是互相的推卸責任啊衛福部說他沒有技術然後訴發部說我沒有法源然後教育部是說這個其實是社會有關我只要管教校園就好了但是校園裡面他又沒有辦法阻止外面的東西進入到校園每一個部會都很重要每一個部會都很大"},{"start":660.407,"end":683.281,"text":"但是每一個部會看到這樣的問題都持續放任的話我覺得這是國家的不幸我們會馬上再跟衛福部來對這個問題再做看怎麼樣進行讓他很快的能夠把它下架部長我希望我下次質詢的時候不要再有這樣的議題因為這個議題確實真的會讓我們國家的年輕朋友受到傷害了解謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":909,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時32分）黃部長，關於數發部，大家、國人很關心跟重視的當然都是打詐的議題，本席也下載了網路詐騙通報查詢網的app，裡面我有看到一個統計，我想這個app也已經上線一個多月了，大家都有通報，也都有相關的統計資料，其中詐騙媒介，就是本席跟國人大家所關心的，到底這些廣告都在哪裡做詐騙的、哪裡讓民眾獲得這個資訊，部長有沒有掌握？就是詐騙媒介。"],["黃部長彥男：現在的平臺裡面最多的還是在臉書。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來呢？"],["黃部長彥男：臉書以外就是LINE、Google，然後像TikTok……"],["洪委員孟楷：您看一下，這上面的詐騙媒介，我拉了30天的資料來看，總共有10萬筆，將近11萬筆，其中6萬筆是臉書，2萬3,000筆是IG（Instagram），IG其實也是臉書的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，都是臉書的。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來，Meta Messager有4,900筆，將近5,000筆，還有Meta的廣告聯播網1萬8,000筆，所以光臉書就有百分之九十幾都是他們相關的系統，其他像你剛剛所講的Google只有133筆，11萬裡面只占了133筆；而LINE只有了681筆，都不到千位數，換言之，九成都是Meta相關系統，既然已經知道大宗的部分在那邊了，我們除了繼續給國人通報，繼續被動的下架，那我們主動積極的作為在哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，就是說……"],["洪委員孟楷：臉書可以賺那麼多錢，可以接受廣告，沒有問題，你要去做社群正常廣告，我們當然歡迎，這是正常市場機制，但是不能給詐騙集團投放廣告啊！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，所以我們現在為什麼要通過打詐四法，這裡面尤其是關於網路廣告平臺……"],["洪委員孟楷：對，上個會期已經通過了，7月12日已經通過了……"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯，所以我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到現在11月13日，4個月過去了，我們做了什麼事？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個，現在他們要在臺灣設法律代表跟落地，他們在10月30日已經申請了；11月30日我們會公告相關的子法，而他們有一件事一定要做，就是廣告實名制，就是剛剛說的過去什麼詐騙……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，本席上一次在交通委員會的時候，同樣就有要求的嘛！現在更有數據佐證，就是我們臺灣有高達九成、九成五以上的詐騙樣態類型都是從他們的母公司出來的嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯！所以Meta是我們最關心的，剛剛有說了，我們已經跟Meta喝很多所謂的喝咖啡，包括他們派美國的技術專家來跟我們討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：它喝咖啡喝很多，但是它還是恣意妄為啊！"],["黃部長彥男：所以現在已經跟它講……"],["洪委員孟楷：如果喝咖啡真的不行，是不是可以請它喝敬酒？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有！沒有！"],["洪委員孟楷：敬酒如果不行的話，請它喝罰酒！"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯，罰酒，1月初就要開始罰了。"],["洪委員孟楷：明年1月？"],["黃部長彥男：對！現在是這樣，我們的罰則是，第一個，它要廣告實名制，如果不配合，我們就可以連續罰，然後每次可以從250萬開始，罰到1億都可以，所以這個金額可以滿高的，也就是希望用這樣的一個法來做處理，當然第一個是先道德勸說，第二個就是用法律來要求它配合，而希望的結果就是，我們再也不會看到這種所謂假公眾人物的廣告。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，源頭管理才是重點。"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：不要累壞我們第一線的警務同仁或是累壞我們所有相關人員，已經有這個通報機制，你已經看到要通報了，那何不從源頭管理？尤其是我們已經上線一個月了，我覺得用你的這個數字就很清楚明白的認證、驗證我們詐騙廣告來源到底在哪裡。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，您剛剛有提到，如果可以源頭管理的話，本席也想請教另外一個部分，就是我在不管是衛環委員會、教育委員會到現在交通委員會，我在Google上面搜尋「電子煙」，我不知道你有沒有搜尋過，電子煙現在在臺灣是不合法的，但是你只要搜尋「電子煙」，結果我們發現，反而它的官方網站還持續在那邊，衛福部國民健康署居然跟我們說，已經把後面有「.tw」的給下架了，沒有啊！但重點是，現在所有的同仁，若打開Google搜尋「電子煙」三個字，它的官方網站馬上出來，而且製作得華麗精美，甚至裡面還有衛教，告訴你有多少口味等等的，這難道不是違禁品嗎？可以讓我們大剌剌地搜尋且搜尋得到？數發部到底有什麼樣的因應作為？"],["黃部長彥男：我們基本上對於這種廣告，就是剛才講的，我們是有一個機制，叫做RPG，是可以把它封網，就是停止解析、類封網……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這件事情應該已經討論了，因為這自始至終都不合法。"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以我們有在這裡面做一些處理，像剛講的，在搜尋以後……"],["洪委員孟楷：衛福部有沒有找你們討論過？因為我相信是有這個技術、有這個機制，但是我不知道後面的水有多深，深到就是沒有一個部會敢動他們……"],["黃部長彥男：所以衛福部如果……"],["洪委員孟楷：上個會期，關於性私密影像，像創意私房還是什麼論壇的，一天就可以封網，我就搜尋不到了，結果這一個議題，我從衛環委員會質詢衛福部長，衛福部長說要找數發部討論，沒下文；問教育部長，沒下文；到現在問數發部長，你說也可以封網，我相信技術上絕對做得到。"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是我們不能隨便封。"],["洪委員孟楷：不能隨便封，但它現在賣的是一個不合法的產品，這個產品在臺灣是不允許販賣的，所以它就是一個非法的東西，甚至為什麼我們說它相當重要，因為它有可能會搭載毒品，然後可能會引誘青少年吸食，像我們去便利商店買紙菸，便利商店店員都還要看身分證，但電子煙不用，因為網路購買不會檢查身分，寄送到便利商店，貨到付款，我去付款取貨也不會檢查身分，會不會反而變成更嚴重？"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以我們現在的機制是，只要衛福部通知我們哪些網頁要封，我們就去封，但是封網的決定是來自衛福部。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，所以現在這樣又是互推皮球了。"],["黃部長彥男：這就是我們的機制，因為我們數發部要有法才能夠去封，問題是這個法的的主管機關是在衛福部，我們不能夠隨便決定就封網，所以還要由執法單位來要求我們封，我們就封，我們是有這個機制，但是我們不能自己主動，因為這個要有法的依據。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，很好，我們講到現在這樣，到目前為止聽起來我是肯定的，因為數發部是有這樣的工具，所以有沒有任何人可以回答我，過去這段時間，我相信我們召委，民進黨、國民黨、民眾黨大家都有問過，衛福部有沒有來找數發部要求做封網？衛福部有沒有找數發部討論過應該要讓它下架？"],["黃部長彥男：關於電子煙的部分嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：有嗎？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，我大概回應一下，基本上，委員垂詢的確實是一個問題，我們已經跟衛福部協調「.tw」的部分，目前為止採兩個機制，一個就是如果是「.tw」註冊的話，我們就把相關資料移給衛福部，由衛福部國民健康署去做裁處，如果沒有這個資料的話，我們就把它封掉。另外一個部分是平臺的部分，我們也積極協調相關的平臺業者，如果有這種電子煙的話也會去做處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在沒有講平臺，現在他們不用平臺……"],["牛司長信仁：有！"],["洪委員孟楷：他們現在神通廣大到設立自己的官網，連平臺都不需要……"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，我跟您……"],["洪委員孟楷：這就是他們厲害跟讓我覺得不可思議的地方，就是橫跨衛福部、數發部等那麼多的部會，結果我們沒有辦法針對一個違禁品來做嚇阻。"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，根據衛福部的資料，Facebook目前的案件是最多，跟詐騙一樣，五千九百……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在沒有講Facebook，不是，你完全沒有聽懂，對不起，您是……"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，那個自架網站是307件……"],["洪委員孟楷：您是？"],["牛司長信仁：資源司司長。"],["洪委員孟楷：資源司牛信仁司長？"],["牛司長信仁：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：牛司長，你完全沒有聽懂本席的問題，我現在沒有在討論平臺，我們把Google打開來搜尋，不用任何的技術，不用任何的關鍵字，只要打「電子煙」三個字就可以搜尋到，洋洋灑灑，官方網站做得比誰都精美，我現在問的是說，剛剛部長已經講了嘛，因為法源在衛福部，主管機關是衛福部，如果衛福部要求數發部，數發部可以執行封網的動作，所以我現在想要問的是，到底過去那麼多時間以來，是衛福部有要求數發部而數發部沒有動作，還是衛福部自始至終身為主管機關但就是沒有討論，所以才放任他們持續在那邊販售？"],["牛司長信仁：報告委員，上次在教育委員會您也垂詢到這個問題……"],["洪委員孟楷：是！"],["牛司長信仁：所以衛福部現在正在召開跨部會的協調會議，也請各部會提供資料給衛福部，看我們能夠協助什麼。"],["洪委員孟楷：那還要多久？還要多久？"],["牛司長信仁：這個部分還看衛福部的討論，基本上我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在是在比誰放水的比較多，是不是？還要多久？還是給大家最後一段時間，趕快喔，要封了，清倉大拍賣！部長，說實在的，我很實在的講、很持平的來說，這背後利益有多龐大我都不敢想，但是如果它真的是一個不合法的東西，中華民國是個法治的國家，我們不應該放任不合法的東西持續的販售……"],["黃部長彥男：完全同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果我們所有的部會都不作為，你推我、我推你，其實這件事情我就看得很明顯，就是互相的推卸責任。衛福部說沒有技術，數發部說沒有法源，然後教育部說這個其實跟社會有關，它只要管好校園就好了，但是又沒有辦法阻止外面的東西進入到校園，你們每一個部會都很重要，每個部會都很大，但是每一個部會看到這樣的問題都持續放任的話，我覺得這是國家的不幸。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會馬上再跟衛福部針對這個問題看怎麼樣進行，很快的能夠把它下架。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我希望我下次質詢的時候不要再有這樣的議題……"],["黃部長彥男：OK，好。"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這個議題確實真的會讓我們國家的年輕朋友受到傷害。謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：瞭解，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在現場。","接下來請許智傑委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156834","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156834","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678c35564f34280414806c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86bee833ab9d99bf9e445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"12:25:34 - 12:32:27","影片長度":"00:06:53","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:32:27+08:00","duration":413,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.40971875,"end":9.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.548468750000001,"end":10.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.302843750000001,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.61909375,"end":22.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.91346875,"end":54.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.570968750000006,"end":55.431593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.039093750000006,"end":69.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.62346875,"end":86.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.57659375,"end":73.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.92221875,"end":76.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.51971875000001,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.91596875,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.97034375000001,"end":111.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.19909375,"end":114.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.73034375,"end":120.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.09221875,"end":131.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.10346875000002,"end":162.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.61346875,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.88721875000002,"end":137.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.38096875000002,"end":163.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.44846875000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.78096875,"end":179.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.62471875,"end":169.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.35034375,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.38721875000002,"end":184.01909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.25534375,"end":194.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.73471875,"end":237.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.81659375,"end":246.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.15284375000002,"end":252.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.81096875000003,"end":247.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.76409375000003,"end":250.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.53596875000002,"end":251.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.10971875,"end":253.15596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.15596875000003,"end":272.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.29096875000002,"end":253.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.76471875000004,"end":276.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.47721875,"end":276.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.01721875000004,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.03409375,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.34909375,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.60221875,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.52596875,"end":288.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.69909375000003,"end":314.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.71596875,"end":314.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.74971875,"end":314.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.96909375,"end":315.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.03659375,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.96034375,"end":317.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.39909375,"end":318.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.23409375,"end":321.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.52471875000003,"end":329.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.17784375,"end":330.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.06784375,"end":332.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.35846875000004,"end":335.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.10096875000005,"end":394.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.27784375000005,"end":391.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.97346875000005,"end":398.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.45409375,"end":397.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.87159375000005,"end":398.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.88846875,"end":398.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.90534375000004,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.97284375000004,"end":399.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.02346875,"end":399.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.17534375,"end":403.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.60534375000003,"end":406.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.88346875,"end":404.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.19534375,"end":410.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.97096875000005,"end":412.92846875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.792,"end":9.856,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長請黃部長委員好"},{"start":16.65,"end":24.933,"text":"部長好想要請教部長一下目前數位發展部在詐騙通報查詢網站的預算編列了為6000萬請問該平台通報率及查編處理的成效如何還有外籍人士"},{"start":36.917,"end":55.146,"text":"是包含新住民移工僑生還有投資移民技術移民已經超過150萬人外籍人士語言不通當他們收片時如何求助還有撥片多少人還有多少金額部長你知道嗎"},{"start":57.127,"end":79.413,"text":"我們現在被騙的就是說在我們那個所謂的這個我們這165這個就是我們這個查詢裡面目前看到每天大概就3到6億嘛這是金額啦對但是說我說外籍人士在台灣已經超過150萬人但是有多少多少人還有語言的求助"},{"start":79.693,"end":81.154,"text":"外籍人士我就比較沒有資料"},{"start":95.822,"end":119.551,"text":"你要去統計好不好所以如果你沒有關於這些外籍人士所以我要問你人民現在繳的稅金有包含外籍人士繳的稅金嗎外籍人士應該都有啊都有的話為什麼編列預算在防詐網站是不是有多種議員"},{"start":121.084,"end":122.405,"text":"所以說我們這個網站都沒有多種語言嘛所以說是是說165而已嘛"},{"start":137.014,"end":142.876,"text":"所以這樣子的話我看到的就是防詐資訊協助的就是一般民眾缺雜對在台的外籍人士的協助當他面臨就是特殊的詐騙的狀況就是沒有一個管道也沒有這樣子的求助所以說我們如何檢舉機制還有保護的措施我想要問你的是這一塊"},{"start":163.63,"end":164.87,"text":"我們自己目前正在測試加入網路詐騙通報查詢網"},{"start":184.661,"end":192.383,"text":"對但是我們每次我們民眾打電話就是進我們的防詐中心都會經常被回復的就是兩個國外的帳號無法查詢國外的詐騙集團無法追蹤就是詐騙的中心回的都是這個所以部長有沒有考慮說成立一個多種語言專屬的團隊專責調查協助"},{"start":212.067,"end":215.449,"text":"查緝國外內的詐騙集團以多元的方式就是預防減少國民還有外籍人士在台灣的受害才實現雙方的保護也讓關於防詐中心也成為我們新住民或者多種演員也成為我們打詐的主力所以部長你有沒有覺得這個有必要"},{"start":238.359,"end":251.277,"text":"包括委員當然我覺得這有必要但是我們會回去再跟內政部警政署把這東西看能怎麼樣放上去因為對那是我們不想聽的就是研議中努力中希望是有一個真正的規劃"},{"start":253.28,"end":276.247,"text":"對但是我看你編列了6千萬的費用是以預防詐騙還是減少詐騙這比費用廣告及媒體的預算知否真正的發揮了保護人民的功能還是甚至還是只是對特定的廠商就是有利"},{"start":277.977,"end":293.019,"text":"這個是給民眾用的這個是我們說網路通報詐騙通報查詢是給民眾看到訊息不確定是不是詐騙之前能夠來查詢所以我才說你們就是6千萬嘛一千萬的話第一千萬就是要自己"},{"start":293.599,"end":298.881,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":314.741,"end":315.302,"text":"網路詐騙通報查詢網的維運跟開發"},{"start":335.698,"end":343.505,"text":"對所以我的意思說你花人民的血汗錢連眼睛眨一下都沒有眨對不對所以請我們書法部以一週內提供給我們就是多元的服務的規劃"},{"start":350.191,"end":355.434,"text":"包含語言上線時間因為你拿的納稅錢不是只有人民所有的人所以要負責新的團隊的名單還有及時更新我們的新增的語言的上線日期希望你要把這個因為很多人都說你們都說詐騙集團是國外的"},{"start":373.343,"end":398.208,"text":"詐騙的帳號是國外的但是你們要如何比詐騙集團更先進啊更有語言觀有世界觀讓這些人才能在台灣的外籍人士才能幫助到你變成如何去打詐去除害這個才是真正的解決問題啦不要是說花錢都砸一個眼睛都沒辦法砸"},{"start":402.012,"end":407.46,"text":"希望是你看說一個禮拜可不可以給我一個完整的規模希望你做得到謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":872,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（12時25分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：部長好。想要請教部長，目前數位發展部在詐騙通報查詢網站的預算，編列了6,000萬，請問該平臺通報率及查緝處理的成效如何？還有，外籍人士包含新住民、移工、僑生還有投資移民、技術移民，目前已經超過150萬人，外籍人士語言不通，當他們受騙時如何求助？還有，被騙有多少人？有多少金額？部長，你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們現在被騙的，就是在我們所謂165防詐網的查詢裡面，目前每天大概就3到6億的金額。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但我是說在臺灣的外籍人士已經超過150萬人，除了語言不通如何求助外，有多少人被騙？還有被騙了多少金額？你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：外籍人士我就比較沒有這方面的資料。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你沒有去統計，但是有很多團體就幫你統計了，我希望這個部分你要去統計，好不好？好，你沒有關於這些外籍人士的統計，所以我要問你，人民現在繳的稅金有包含外籍人士繳的稅金嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：外籍人士應該都有。"],["麥委員玉珍：都有的話，編列預算用在防詐網站的部分，是不是有提供多種語言？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們現在165防詐網的通報是內政部在負責，我不是很清楚他們怎麼做，我們這邊現在是正在……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以這個網站都沒有提供多種語言嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以就是165的部分而已嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，165是內政部……"],["麥委員玉珍：我看到的是，防詐資訊的協助是針對一般民眾，缺乏對在臺外籍人士的協助，當他面臨特殊的詐騙狀況，沒有一個管道來求助，所以我們有什麼檢舉機制還有保護措施呢？我想要問你的就是這一塊啦！"],["黃部長彥男：就是剛剛委員講的，像現在看到的是165所謂的通報……"],["麥委員玉珍：不要再一直講165！請問我們要如何去協助他們？165都是別人的工作，講別人沒有用，講自己要怎麼做才有用。"],["黃部長彥男：我們自己的話，目前正在測試的是網路詐騙通報查詢網。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但是每次我們民眾打電話，就是打進我們的防詐中心，經常被回復的就是兩個，國外的帳號無法查詢；國外的詐騙集團無法追蹤，防詐中心回的都是這個，所以部長有沒有考慮成立一個多種語言的專屬團隊，專責調查、協助、查緝國內外的詐騙集團，以多元的方式，預防、減少國人還有外籍人士在臺灣的受害，才能實現所謂雙方的保護，也讓防詐中心，不僅是我們的新住民或者是提供多種語言，也都能成為我們打詐的主力，所以部長覺得這個有必要嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，當然我覺得這有必要，但我們回去會再跟內政部警政署協調，看這個東西怎麼樣能放上去，因為……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但是我們不想聽的就是研議中、努力中，而是希望能有一個真正的規劃。"],["黃部長彥男：我了解，但是165儀錶板是現在……"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我看你編列了6,000萬的費用，這是用以預防詐騙還是減少詐騙？這筆費用中關於廣告及媒體的預算，是否真正發揮了保護人民的功能還是只是對特定的廠商有利？"],["黃部長彥男：這個是給民眾用的，我們網路通報詐騙通報查詢網是給民眾看到訊息不確定是不是詐騙之前能夠來做查詢。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我才說你們的6,000萬，第一個千萬就是自己要顧好自己的錢包，千萬不要相信打詐中心，因為越打越詐；第二個千萬，就是千萬不要相信打詐網站，因為打詐網站只是你去通報，它就下架，但它不會幫你把關，還有剩下的4,000萬，請問部長說明一下功能。"],["黃部長彥男：剩下的4,000萬？"],["麥委員玉珍：你有6,000萬，其中的2,000萬，我剛才已經幫你講了，就是有兩個功能，還有4,000萬就讓你來講它的功能啊！"],["黃部長彥男：不是，剛才講的網路詐騙通報查詢網的維運跟開發……"],["麥委員玉珍：我要請我們的部長，你眼睛可不可以眨一下？我的意思是，你花人民的血汗錢眼睛連眨一下都沒有，對不對？所以請數發部以一週內提供給我們多元服務的規劃，包含新增語言的上線時間，因為你拿了納稅錢就要對所有的人負責，所以要負責新的團隊的名單，還有即時更新我們新增語言的上線日期，因為很多人都說，你們都說詐騙集團是國外的，詐騙的帳號是國外的，但是你們要如何比詐騙集團更先進、更有語言觀、有世界觀，讓這些在臺灣的外籍人士能夠幫助你如何去打詐、去除害，這才是真正解決問題，而不是花錢時眼睛眨都不眨一下。"],["黃部長彥男：了解。我們會把這個帶回去給打詐指揮中心。"],["麥委員玉珍：一個禮拜可不可以給我一個完整的規劃？"],["黃部長彥男：我可以給你一個說明，但是這個需要回去再跟我們打詐指揮中心做個協調。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，希望你做得到，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員。接下來邀請洪孟楷委員發言。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝主席，麻煩請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156833","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156833","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678a03590fc901af7f29fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be30a324e446e41dda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"12:39:48 - 12:45:36","影片長度":"00:05:48","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:39:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:45:36+08:00","duration":348,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.78909375,"end":10.392218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.51034375,"end":11.117843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.25596875,"end":43.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.45221875,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.38284375,"end":44.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.821593750000005,"end":45.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.812843750000006,"end":48.040343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.462218750000005,"end":54.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.697843750000004,"end":52.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.883468750000006,"end":53.102843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.385343750000004,"end":57.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.59159375,"end":58.469093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.77721875,"end":58.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.806593750000005,"end":64.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.15221875,"end":61.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.57784375,"end":66.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.73784375000001,"end":72.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.20534375,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.02346875,"end":75.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.04034375,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.05721875,"end":88.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.82721875,"end":91.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.45971875000001,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.96346875,"end":113.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.95409375000001,"end":116.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.00846875,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.44721875,"end":118.02096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.44284375000001,"end":118.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.55659375,"end":122.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.37471875000001,"end":128.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.37784375,"end":144.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.19409375,"end":145.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.44284375,"end":145.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.99971875,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.98596875,"end":158.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.19596875000002,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.50346875,"end":169.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.75971875000002,"end":170.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.90721875,"end":173.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.92784375000002,"end":177.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.28596875000002,"end":177.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.72471875000002,"end":182.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.34846875000002,"end":182.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.50034375,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.75346875000002,"end":188.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.13221875000002,"end":190.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.90409375000002,"end":193.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.40596875,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.96596875,"end":211.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.68721875,"end":202.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.79534375,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.98471875,"end":215.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.23784375000002,"end":215.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.48971875,"end":226.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.32471875000002,"end":233.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.08721875,"end":237.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.71534375000002,"end":246.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.08534375000002,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.94971875000002,"end":251.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.33346875,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.35034375,"end":251.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.62034375000002,"end":251.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.77221875,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.00409375,"end":255.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.02096875,"end":253.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.79284375,"end":279.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.44221875,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.28596875,"end":258.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.75409375000004,"end":260.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.63909375000003,"end":266.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.73159375,"end":269.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.18534375,"end":281.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.21909375,"end":284.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.99096875000004,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.43784375,"end":285.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.99034375,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.73221875,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.65596875,"end":295.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.66784375000003,"end":298.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.43846875,"end":311.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.10471875,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.26221875000005,"end":329.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.54409375,"end":337.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.57784375,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.56471875,"end":342.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.54284375000003,"end":342.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.55971875,"end":345.85034375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.083,"end":10.218,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":19.098,"end":33.298,"text":"部長,我上個禮拜約了我們農糧署還有我們農改產還有縣政府的同仁一起去看我們這個康納颱風造成我們屏東紅豆受損的一個災情。已經公告了吧?"},{"start":34.018,"end":58.083,"text":"對,感謝部長這個禮拜一公告但是我要跟部長反映另外一個問題我們的紅豆除了怕颱風之外還怕另外一個動物叫綠烈蜥這個綠烈蜥把我們紅豆的嫩芽吃得一乾二淨那天上個禮拜四我們幫我們農業部的官員到現場看了之後大家都嚇一跳那我們的農民怎麼辦呢我們他們現在自立救濟做了"},{"start":58.923,"end":74.401,"text":"用鳥網跟魚網做的防護網,一個晚上可以抓十幾隻的濾裂器纏在網子上面。部長,針對這個部分,是不是可以請部長針對農民這樣一個自力救濟的方式,應該是不是給予這樣的一個所謂的一個資產的一個補助的一個方案?"},{"start":75.121,"end":93.601,"text":"我感謝委員對這個議題的關心我也在考慮就是應該會去做就是說如果農民自主去抓到濾劣期的某種獎勵就像我們之前針對這些相關的這些外來種我們去移除的時候也有一些獎勵"},{"start":94.622,"end":96.884,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":119.608,"end":121.949,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":146.765,"end":165.342,"text":"另外,屏東縣政府今年截至目前已經抓了3萬隻。在我們州縣長的支持之下,我們的農業處也編列了很多經費,但是也沒有交流。這部分我們移除的經費能不能再繼續支持?我們一百一十四年經費大概有兩千多萬。"},{"start":168.024,"end":172.988,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":189.221,"end":203.66,"text":"真的非常非常的恐怖所以這部分是不是馬上部長我會來重視包括剛才您所提到的獎勵抓到獎勵的部分我想我們會來設計我想鄉親不是要獎勵他們是如何去防範農作物受損防範也是另外一件事情"},{"start":204.261,"end":232.099,"text":"另外我們剛剛洪森委員提到墾丁煤火爐的問題這也是一個很嚴重的一個問題除了發生車禍之外他們也會大量的種一些紅龍果這些農作物把吃得很乾淨啦這農民真的是苦不堪言啦這個這樣一個防範措施是不是有考慮立委我們一個所謂一個農損的一個天然災害救助我想以現在天然災害救助是沒辦法納入但是我剛才也說過了就是我會去考慮說像這種非"},{"start":234.164,"end":248.943,"text":"就是因為特殊的物種像梅花鹿包括米猴他侵害農作物造成的這些損失我們要用什麼方式來協助這個我想也農委員給我們一點時間我們在內部去討論因為討論如果說確定可以的話我們就要編列相關的經費"},{"start":249.884,"end":251.404,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":281.32,"end":282.461,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":303.571,"end":326.933,"text":"這個問題就是針對我們一直在質詢所謂同產計作物的這個救助的部分部長有答應說要研議那目前研議的方向我跟委員報告就天然災害救助的辦法我們未來一定是每年1月1號1月就會公告新的方法那我們現在正在處理兩個議題包括您所關心的這些同產計或是長期作物的產期另外一個就是現在在救助的金額"},{"start":327.854,"end":344.708,"text":"因為有些作物的產量、金額已經很久沒調了。我們會重新計算它的生產成本去做一些調整。大概我們11月底內部會討論。然後我們最慢12月中旬就會確認公布。好,那麻煩再給我們辦公室一份資料。好,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1034,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（12時40分）謝謝主席，有請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：部長好。我上個禮拜約了農糧署、農改場和縣政府的同仁一起去看康芮颱風造成屏東紅豆受損的災情。"],["陳部長駿季：已經公告了。"],["徐委員富癸：對，感謝部長這個禮拜公告，但是我要跟部長反映另一個問題，我們紅豆除了怕颱風之外，還怕另外一個動物叫綠鬣蜥，綠鬣蜥把我們紅豆的嫩芽吃得一乾二淨。上個禮拜我們和農業部的官員到現場看的時候，大家都嚇一跳，我們農民怎麼辦呢？他們現在自力救濟，用苗網和漁網做了防護，一個晚上可以抓十幾隻的綠鬣蜥纏在網子上面。部長，針對農民這樣自力救濟的方式，是不是可以給予資材補助的方案？"],["陳部長駿季：感謝委員對這個議題的關心，我也在考慮，應該會去做，如果農民自主去抓到綠鬣蜥的某種獎勵，就像我們之前針對移除相關的外來種有一些獎勵。另外，我們也會提供縣市政府，特別是比較多的區域的縣市政府經費，和居民共同努力成立巡守隊去抓，這個部分我們也會有經費支持。"],["徐委員富癸：上上禮拜我和我們的議員、代表會副主席短短半個小時抓了30隻綠鬣蜥，林務署的官員跟我說，我們就多補助點經費，你們就可以抓得完。部長，抓得完嗎？抓不完啦！"],["陳部長駿季：抓不完。"],["徐委員富癸：對，農民都自力救濟，這些防制也看到一些成果，是不是用這樣花少數經費讓農民在紅豆苗長出來的時候先做防護措施，我覺得這是一個非常有效的策略。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們願意來協助。"],["徐委員富癸：屏東縣政府今年截至目前已經抓了3萬隻，在我們周縣長支持之下，農業處也編列了很多經費，但還是不夠，部長能不能繼續支持移除的經費？"],["陳部長駿季：明年114年大概有二千多萬元，如果不夠的話，特別是屏東縣比較多的話，我們經費的分配會因為地區數量的關係而酌予增加。"],["徐委員富癸：因為現在發現只要在有水圳的地方繁殖非常恐怖，連小朋友放學看到整個綠鬣蜥大軍嚇得要命，不敢路過，真的非常非常恐怖，這個部分麻煩部長持續支持。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會來重視，包括剛才你所提到的捕捉獎勵，我們會來設計。"],["徐委員富癸：我想鄉親不是要獎勵，而是要防範農作物受損。"],["陳部長駿季：防範也是一樣，防範是另外一件事情。"],["徐委員富癸：剛剛洪申翰委員提到墾丁梅花鹿的問題，這也是一個很嚴重的問題，除了發生車禍之外，牠們也會大量的將紅龍果等作物吃得很乾淨，農民真的苦不堪言，針對這樣的防範措施，是不是有考慮列為農損的天然災害救助？"],["陳部長駿季：以現在天然災害救助是沒辦法納入，但是我剛才也說過了，我會去考慮將這種因為特殊物種，包括梅花鹿、獼猴，侵害農作物造成損失，我們要用什麼方式來協助，這個請委員給我們一點時間，我們在內部討論，討論如果確定可以的話，我們就要編列相關的經費。"],["徐委員富癸：獼猴的問題很嚴重，真的都非常吃力。"],["陳部長駿季：獼猴的部分也非常嚴重。"],["徐委員富癸：這個部分是不是很快、很短的時間研究一下，給本席辦公室一個資料。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["徐委員富癸：上個月我們也針對風災受損，例如豬場帆布，還有觀賞魚防鳥網的部分，我們研議之後沒有說要補助，但是根據屏東養豬協會統計，至少將近快80間的豬場受到影響。"],["陳部長駿季：這個應該有協助吧！我們是用專案的方式來協助，不是用天然災害救助。"],["徐委員富癸：但是給我們的回復是沒有啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我們會來處理，我之前也有跟委員說過，我們不能用天然災害救助，但是我們會用專案的方式來處理。"],["徐委員富癸：因為帆布也是屬於養豬設施的一環。"],["陳部長駿季：對，基本的設施。"],["徐委員富癸：尤其我們鄉下要擋風，這部長也很清楚，希望能夠正視這個問題。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["徐委員富癸：最後一個問題，針對我們一直在質詢所謂同產季作物救助的部分，部長答應要研議，目前研議的方向？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，天然災害救助的辦法我們未來一定是每年1月就會公告新的辦法，我們現在正在處理兩個議題，包括你所關心的同產季或長期作物的產期，另外一個就是天然災害救助的金額，因為有些作物的產量、金額已經很久沒調了，我們會重新計算它的生產成本去做一些調整。"],["徐委員富癸：大概什麼時候可以出來？"],["陳部長駿季：我們11月底內部會討論，最慢12月中旬就會確認公布。"],["徐委員富癸：再麻煩給我們辦公室一份資料。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["徐委員富癸：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：請傅崐萁、傅崐萁、傅崐萁委員不在。","請張雅琳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156832","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156832","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667872054e5fe9148ec4370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86beb2b7e68c96004cff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:39:40 - 12:43:36","影片長度":"00:03:56","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:39:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:43:36+08:00","duration":236,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.40221875,"end":0.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.805968750000002,"end":13.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.121593750000002,"end":15.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.70721875,"end":22.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.96409375,"end":23.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.250968750000002,"end":43.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.922843750000006,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.73221875,"end":50.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.774093750000006,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.119718750000004,"end":55.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.195343750000006,"end":58.148468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.24971875000001,"end":68.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.96534375,"end":72.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.69471875,"end":75.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.76596875,"end":76.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.50846875,"end":77.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.85409375,"end":84.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.38909375,"end":84.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.05971875,"end":95.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.94846875,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.67784375000001,"end":105.31409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.63471875,"end":109.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.38096875000001,"end":110.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.76471875,"end":112.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.29596875,"end":115.06784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.65846875000001,"end":118.57784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.74659375,"end":120.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.77159375000001,"end":123.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.75846875,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.45409375000001,"end":154.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.77659375000002,"end":143.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.96034375000002,"end":160.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.84971875000002,"end":162.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.04346875000002,"end":165.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.28784375,"end":181.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.74096875,"end":183.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.82909375,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.63409375,"end":198.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.41346875000002,"end":200.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.67471875,"end":202.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.13846875000002,"end":213.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.39846875,"end":222.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.57846875,"end":229.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.91909375,"end":232.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.02409375000002,"end":233.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.47971875000002,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.20534375000003,"end":236.34846875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.384,"end":9.428,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":19.784,"end":21.284,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案"},{"start":48.772,"end":77.592,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 實際上在2024年健康台灣元年的建言書裡面就提出健康台灣十大建言那第三點就是希望能夠注重營養培養運動習慣那我們知道這個是賴總統他希望能夠持續強調的所以他在主持健康台灣推動委員會的第一次的會議裡面針對八年八八八的計畫裡面八年八八八"},{"start":79.148,"end":82.093,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 規劃中希望培養國人愛好運動的習慣"},{"start":86.032,"end":114.583,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案 希望能夠具體落實未來民眾健康的這個部分那我們很期待這些落實有賴運動部成立以後可以逐步的加強那在教育部體育署新聞稿裡面也有提到成立運動部要推動的四大目標就明確的顯示提倡全民的運動增進國民健康這是未來要很明確要來執行的地方那我們也了解其實"},{"start":119.145,"end":143.342,"text":"實際上還是有很需要提升的空間我們發現經過調查國人沒有運動習慣的有17.4個百分比每週運動不到一次的有4.8個百分比所以加總起來就超過20%意思就是說國人五個人裡面其實就有一個並不是那麼樣對運動的這些執行是很落實的"},{"start":144.162,"end":160.311,"text":"所以針對運動組織法第一條我們希望運動部將促進健康的成立目標能夠明文入法以呼應賴總統的這方面的這個健康的政策那也希望增加推廣全民教育強調運動科學研究的重要跟需求"},{"start":160.951,"end":168.578,"text":"發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函擬具:「"},{"start":184.873,"end":212.095,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件事宜,我都是在照顧癌症病人癌後的這些健康的民眾當中他們的運動強度跟一般民眾可能會就是不一樣的所以我們很期待透過這些的問題希望能夠在現在院版的基礎上做徵修的條文那不知道部長或署長有什麼想法那是否同意將這些都可以把它納進來"},{"start":213.756,"end":235.817,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒確實這個我們運動就希望他能夠健康然後怎麼樣去因應不同的年齡階段然後有不同的一個運動的一個方式我想委員的一個建議是非常有價值那是不是也能夠可以在等到我們主條討論的時候在並驗版一起來討論非常感謝好謝謝好謝謝王委員謝謝部長跟署長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1097,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時39分）謝謝主席，有請教育部鄭部長、體育署鄭署長。"],["主席：有請部長及署長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：兩位好，部長好。剛剛范雲委員有提到，如果運動部成立以後，不管是競技型或是健康型的運動，都應該要同步的落實，齊頭並進，希望能夠一起來重視。今天司法法制跟教育文化兩委會聯席審查運動部組織法等相關法案，我其實也準備了一些法案正在連署當中，也希望能夠趕得上逐條審查。","其實在2024年健康台灣元年建言書中就有提出「健康台灣10大建言」，其中第三點就是希望能夠注重營養、培養運動習慣。我們知道這是賴總統希望能夠持續強調的，所以他在主持「健康台灣推動委員會」第一次會議中提出的8年888計畫，也希望培養國人愛好運動的習慣，能夠具體落實在未來民眾健康的維護上，我們很期待這些目標的落實，都有賴運動部成立以後可以逐步地來加強。","在教育部體育署的新聞稿裡面也提到，成立運動部要推動的四大目標，明確顯示「提倡全民運動，增進國民健康」是未來很明確要執行的目標之一。我們也了解，我國國人的運動頻率跟次數，事實上還有很需要提升的空間。經調查發現，國人沒有運動習慣的有17.4%，每週運動不到一次的有4.8%，兩者加總起來就超過20%，意思就是每五個國人裡面就有一個對於運動的執行並不是那麼樣落實的，所以，針對運動組織法第一條，我們希望將運動部「促進健康」的成立目標能夠明文入法，以呼應賴總統健康台灣的政策方向；也希望增加推廣全民教育，強調運動科學研究的重要性與需求。","若以教育部採行的7333為規律運動的定義，參考體育署最新112年的運動現況調查，不同「年齡」、「職業」及「月收入」的規律運動人口均有明顯的差異，所以，在第二條的部分，我們也希望政府針對不同年齡層、不同身心健康條件的國民，應透過科學研究，儘量規劃、輔導和推動最適合的運動模式。以我的病人為例，我一直都在照顧癌症病人，癌後康復民眾適合的運動強度跟一般的民眾可能就有所不同，所以我們很期待透過這些問題，希望能夠在現在院版的基礎上做條文的增修，不知道部長或署長有什麼想法，是否同意可以把這些都納進來？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒。確實我們成立運動部就是希望能夠促進國民的健康，怎麼樣去因應不同的年齡階段，然後來推動不同的運動方式，我想委員的建議非常有價值，是不是能夠等到我們逐條討論的時候，併院版一起來討論？非常感謝。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝部長跟署長。所有登記發言委員，除不在場者外均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本聯席會。委員謝龍介所提書面質詢，列入紀錄刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156831","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156831","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678c35564f34280414856f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be36b710c635f0fc7d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"12:25:35 - 12:40:23","影片長度":"00:14:48","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:40:23+08:00","duration":888,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.24534375,"end":7.523468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.69221875,"end":8.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.485343750000002,"end":9.480968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.138468750000001,"end":14.745968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.880968750000001,"end":15.555968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.67409375,"end":16.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.395343750000002,"end":19.656593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.19659375,"end":22.407218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.89659375,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.11971875,"end":27.621593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.38096875,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.629718750000002,"end":30.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.08096875,"end":32.009093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.10596875,"end":33.696593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.89909375,"end":35.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.31659375,"end":38.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.34971875,"end":40.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.61534375,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.361593750000004,"end":45.829718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.74096875,"end":48.799718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.95159375,"end":50.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.92596875,"end":53.305343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.267218750000005,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.28784375,"end":59.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.78096875000001,"end":64.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.79721875,"end":65.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.41721875,"end":67.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.18909375,"end":69.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.50096875,"end":75.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.25534375000001,"end":79.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.73159375,"end":81.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.68471875,"end":84.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.51971875000001,"end":87.24096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.47284375000001,"end":95.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.11721875,"end":97.07909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.58534375,"end":101.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.88409375,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.76971875000001,"end":106.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.61346875000001,"end":109.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.52846875,"end":111.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.31721875000001,"end":112.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.73471875000001,"end":115.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":117.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.30784375,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.86846875,"end":122.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.18034375,"end":125.76659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.72846875,"end":127.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.26409375,"end":129.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.69846875000002,"end":131.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.97659375,"end":133.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.76534375,"end":136.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.27534375000002,"end":140.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.13971875000001,"end":142.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.67534375,"end":146.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.63659375,"end":148.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.06659375,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.52596875,"end":154.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.84221875,"end":158.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.04409375,"end":159.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.17471875,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.23659375,"end":170.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.90721875,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.64909375000002,"end":178.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.36159375,"end":180.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.75784375,"end":183.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.45784375000002,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.80784375000002,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.38971875000001,"end":192.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.55346875,"end":194.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.47721875000002,"end":198.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.20221875000001,"end":202.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.61096875,"end":214.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.06909375,"end":216.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.53284375,"end":219.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.14846875,"end":224.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.56971875000002,"end":227.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.02909375000002,"end":232.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.04096875000002,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.31909375,"end":235.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.63534375,"end":239.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.21284375000002,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.97221875000002,"end":242.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.01409375000003,"end":244.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.57909375000003,"end":249.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.13971875000001,"end":251.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.48096875000002,"end":254.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.88971875000001,"end":256.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.67846875000004,"end":258.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.10846875000004,"end":262.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.50471875,"end":263.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.78721875,"end":265.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.54221875,"end":268.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.35596875000005,"end":270.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.56659375000004,"end":272.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.05971875,"end":275.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.69659375000003,"end":277.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.75971875,"end":279.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.54846875000004,"end":279.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.07159375000003,"end":282.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.21034375,"end":284.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.84596875,"end":294.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.55034375,"end":295.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.60034375000004,"end":299.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.11909375000005,"end":301.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.16096875,"end":309.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.53534375000004,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.18034375,"end":313.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.27721875000003,"end":314.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.47096875,"end":318.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.75284375,"end":322.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.52909375,"end":323.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.08534375,"end":327.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.19471875000005,"end":332.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.92409375,"end":341.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.61034375,"end":345.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.24284375,"end":345.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.50846875,"end":349.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.76534375,"end":351.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.46971875,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.09284375000004,"end":363.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.04159375,"end":365.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.76284375,"end":366.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.72471875,"end":369.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.23471875,"end":373.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.08221875000004,"end":374.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.62221875,"end":375.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.91721875,"end":377.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.04784375,"end":378.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.54971875,"end":380.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.84909375,"end":381.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.90784375000004,"end":387.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.25721875000005,"end":390.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.83909375,"end":391.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.18909375000004,"end":393.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.92284375,"end":396.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.48784375,"end":398.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.10784375000003,"end":400.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.63909375000003,"end":406.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.70159375000003,"end":407.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.08534375000005,"end":409.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.16096875000005,"end":411.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.15221875000003,"end":413.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.56534375,"end":417.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.49721875,"end":419.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.39534375000005,"end":424.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.96034375000005,"end":426.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.25534375,"end":429.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.65159375,"end":440.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.63721875000005,"end":440.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.19409375000004,"end":451.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.89846875,"end":443.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.60596875000005,"end":453.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.74471875,"end":456.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.65159375,"end":456.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.39409375,"end":458.60909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.18284375,"end":459.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.78596875000005,"end":461.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.30471875,"end":462.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.67159375000006,"end":464.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.63346875,"end":465.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.79346875000005,"end":469.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.56096875000003,"end":471.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.75471875000005,"end":472.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.51409375000003,"end":477.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.50471875000005,"end":478.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.25971875000005,"end":481.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.25096875,"end":482.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.22971875,"end":484.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.07346875,"end":490.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.27534375000005,"end":489.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.89471875000004,"end":514.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.3640937499999,"end":524.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.92784375,"end":532.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.53846875,"end":541.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.12346875,"end":544.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.44784375,"end":553.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.07096875,"end":555.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.1297187499999,"end":560.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.20909375,"end":566.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.9253437500001,"end":569.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.52409375,"end":572.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.2240937500001,"end":574.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.7934687500001,"end":577.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.52284375,"end":583.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.32784375,"end":585.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.43721875,"end":589.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.5715937500001,"end":592.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.9340937500001,"end":597.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.3172187499999,"end":600.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9834687499999,"end":608.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.2353437500001,"end":611.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.68221875,"end":615.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.1372187500001,"end":618.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.14096875,"end":628.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.0928437499999,"end":630.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.29096875,"end":631.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.80971875,"end":633.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.88534375,"end":635.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.61096875,"end":636.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.4209687499999,"end":651.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.8784687500001,"end":657.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.7465937500001,"end":662.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.2859687499999,"end":664.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.6147187500001,"end":666.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.3190937500001,"end":669.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.52534375,"end":684.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.1853437500001,"end":686.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.92784375,"end":689.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.93159375,"end":691.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.73721875,"end":694.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.78721875,"end":696.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.81659375,"end":697.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.65596875,"end":698.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.07784375,"end":700.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":701.32221875,"end":703.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.6340937500001,"end":704.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.2709687500001,"end":711.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.5147187500002,"end":711.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.4934687500001,"end":714.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.90659375,"end":716.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.5265937500001,"end":724.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.31846875,"end":725.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.0903437500001,"end":768.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.5990937500001,"end":771.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.28159375,"end":784.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.0222187500001,"end":809.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.07284375,"end":787.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":787.0134687500001,"end":787.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.03846875,"end":789.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":790.62471875,"end":791.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.36659375,"end":795.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":805.1540937500001,"end":805.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.98034375,"end":811.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.0390937500001,"end":812.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.67596875,"end":823.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.18909375,"end":827.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.28971875,"end":840.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.10221875,"end":867.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":861.44909375,"end":862.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.3303437500001,"end":874.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":867.0347187500001,"end":867.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.40596875,"end":867.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":867.4228437500001,"end":867.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.81096875,"end":868.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":868.04721875,"end":868.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.19909375,"end":868.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":868.24971875,"end":868.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.2834687500001,"end":870.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":870.03846875,"end":883.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.79659375,"end":878.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.88096875,"end":878.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.91471875,"end":880.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":880.9734687500002,"end":883.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.13346875,"end":883.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.4878437500001,"end":884.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":884.70284375,"end":888.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.7534687500001,"end":885.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":885.54659375,"end":888.9722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.956,"end":31.625,"text":"謝謝主席 我請部長 總部長好 請請部長委員好部長 今天兩個問題第一個問題就是我上禮拜那麼我在質詢金管會彭諸葳的時候我跟他提到我們央行有一項規定就是針對我們所有"},{"start":33.334,"end":59.008,"text":"銀行那貸款給建商這種空地貸款有個限令就是空地貸款必須在18個月內一年半當中取得建造來開工這是貸款的條件那這個規定行之十數年、二十年之久啦那結果我問了一下"},{"start":61.494,"end":87.041,"text":"這個各銀行我就問我們九大公營行庫就是說這貸款超過18個月還沒有開工這樣子的案件有多少金額多大結果我得到的答覆哇大吃一驚嚇了一跳總金額啊銀行體系貸款"},{"start":88.87,"end":116.635,"text":"九大公營行戶貸款給建商空地貸款超過18個月的金額竟然高達2180億之多啦2180億之多那當然九大公營行戶人家有的模範生像易營、像這個鍾小慶人家都是"},{"start":118.402,"end":146.305,"text":"十來億而已 很小的金額啦這裡面最大金額的竟然是我們公股百分之百關股的土地銀行土地銀行光它一家就高達1173億它一家啊 等於另外八大公營行庫加起來總和"},{"start":147.897,"end":157.995,"text":"還不夠他多這已經到不可思議的地步啦所以部長因為九大公營安庫董事長、總經理都你派的"},{"start":159.13,"end":182.538,"text":"所以我除了要求金管會要嚴加查查以外我今天就是要問你要問九大公營行庫董事長、總經理你們對貸款給建商裡面多數都是不孝建商才會這麼做貸款去買了工地之後擺著"},{"start":184.52,"end":193.863,"text":"不開工、不申請建造他擺明了就是買地、養地、圈地就是這麼簡單欸部長2000我把尾數刪掉2000億就好建地我們抓100萬一坪的就好"},{"start":204.023,"end":231.435,"text":"兩千億可以買一百萬的建地買二十萬坪欸也就是說我們公營航庫體系隨時啊擺著兩千億給這些不孝建商拿去買地、全地、養地並向的助長他們炒作房地產並向的助長不孝建商拉抬房價"},{"start":233.383,"end":244.013,"text":"難怪難怪我們全國各地不只首都而已喔你看這兩三年來房地產這個漲幅過去我們社會還有那麼多中產階級現在中產階級通通變成烏奴因為房地產大幅上漲啊"},{"start":260.351,"end":272.274,"text":"這大幅上漲背後的幫兇竟然是我們公營航庫最大的幫兇就是土地銀行董事長站起來董事長你站起來何董張總我不曉得你們來多久啦我今天把數字跟你講1173億你怎麼解決"},{"start":292.867,"end":313.662,"text":"到9月、10月好各少掉200多億額度減減個200多億這樣還不夠啦土地銀行不要拿這個當藉口我私下找你們問的時候你們說土地銀行是專業的建築公司、土地公司主席請再上來"},{"start":316.789,"end":345.4,"text":"我以為主席請他坐下不會啦謝謝主席那個你們的私下答覆說你們是專業的啊專業的建築融資、土地融資沒錯你是專業沒錯你借的金額也超大沒錯你總計你這些房地的借款"},{"start":346.55,"end":367.902,"text":"一兆4800億沒錯可是跟你一樣大的人家台灣銀行一兆4000也是800他多你還多你14億一兆4800億人家台灣銀行當然也不少啦也不少他預期18個月的142億142億剛好你的尾數你比他多1000億"},{"start":378.138,"end":392.935,"text":"其他人家330這個我剛剛講一人是摩漢銀行他借的也不比你少耶比你少啦他大概你的一半但是人家只有12億"},{"start":394.98,"end":413.396,"text":"那張瑩更不用講張瑩啊貸放債建築土地融資的一兆五千億超過你結果張瑩預期的金額也是你的尾數才148億所以你怎麼解釋這個啦所以那個那個部長"},{"start":422.452,"end":439.819,"text":"你是他們政治的母親啦你拉拔他們出來的嘛所以這件事我就交給你啦好不好好 謝謝委員我想這個部分委員所說的就超過18個月還沒有動工的購地貸款這個數額確實要給處理跟控制然後也不能過度的集中是"},{"start":441.243,"end":465.365,"text":"那就交給你啦好不好其他各銀行我就不多念啦那個比較多的齁超過200億的我稍微念一下何苦林董事長、王總經理你226億喔我讓你知道一下啦好不好跟義營、台汽營去學習嘛"},{"start":467.04,"end":489.828,"text":"問他們人家是怎麼控管的好不好他們有當一回事啊好不好合作金庫本來在我的名單裡面你們算是模範銀行欸結果暫時把你踢除啦吼好那部長我就敲給你啦兩位董事長總經理請回吼謝謝委員我還有第二個問題"},{"start":493.939,"end":509.806,"text":"今天第二個問題就要跟你談到說我們台灣我們國家我們台灣人民就是那麼慈苦耐勞我們的超額儲蓄率這幾年確實逐年創新高這非常的好我們超額儲蓄率從"},{"start":511.708,"end":521.819,"text":"大概5年前開始每年2.23兆之後都突破3兆以上到了今年預期我們可能超額儲蓄3.84兆"},{"start":524.983,"end":535.147,"text":"草原儲蓄率高達15.46%這個在避逆這些先進國家包括德國它才4.2%日本2.1%韓國1.8%美國更扯它是負數負1.8%那這些都是正面現在問題是說我們如何"},{"start":545.53,"end":571.081,"text":"把我們國家國民辛苦所得超額的這個儲蓄率跟資金如何把它引導到能夠參與我們國家的公共建設也就是說民間參與公共建設但是隨著我們超額儲蓄增加但是民間參與公共建設這個量能都沒有明顯成長我光統計"},{"start":573.854,"end":588.825,"text":"107人到現在這6年裡面從83件捧接的那一件有時候稍微增加到90幾件最高來到172件到去年才100件金額也都大概在1000出頭億今年大概去年總結1876億我為什麼跟你講這個呢就是說這裡面這個金額齁"},{"start":601.055,"end":627.978,"text":"我們還是財政部還是把其他法令參與公共建設的都算進去欸欸部長我現在列給你看了這個說去年100屆1876億你是把比方說他是根據大眾捷運法他根據國有財產法他根據都市更新條例這種獎勵的你通通算進去這些不單單只是"},{"start":631.374,"end":650.398,"text":"這個促進促參法的這個所以也就是說如果單就促參法而言我們那個成效更差結果促參法的推動我們不是沒花錢部長你編的這不是你編的啦你的前年他編102年到110年所謂的促參忠誠計畫花了7億2千萬"},{"start":658.783,"end":683.916,"text":"花了7億2千萬就要鋪通下去你看就是剛才那個成績啊沒什麼成績那麼花了這些錢以後兔餐法占民間投資總額不到三成只占24.79%我現在表格上列給你的右下角24.79花了那些錢下去欸"},{"start":687.124,"end":710.86,"text":"說只是去推動促餐法喔只是去推動喔就要花那些預算結果結論24.79%那今年又編啦部長在您任內你的任內不是今年編的啦前年編的編到114年為止要5億1000萬所以部長我就跟你說這"},{"start":712.56,"end":724.467,"text":"五億1700萬這是你任內的這你責無旁貸你一定要監督這一筆錢下去推動出產法它的成效是怎樣好不好部長"},{"start":727.379,"end":750.954,"text":"委員跟委員報告您提到差額儲蓄的部分確實我們是希望把民間資金都投入到國家的公共建設那促餐是其中一個方式當然也有依照非促餐法來做那同樣也是民間投資的譬如它依照電業法或者是蔣餐條例的交通建設等等都有那包含商港法也是那促餐法的部分在我們110"},{"start":752.475,"end":767.341,"text":"一年修正以後展開了所謂促參2.0我們會希望做得更大的一個部分那也一直都在相關的執法也都在訂定當中我們希望這個部分會加大力道來推動促參主席我一分鐘你提完我再跟你講最後的結論是"},{"start":772.475,"end":787.189,"text":"有要繼續補充嗎?我跟你講有啊你有做嘛你也編了預算是前一筆7億多的那不是你任內算再來這一筆這是你任內一直到明年這5億1000萬所以我認為這一筆預算你要嚴格去監督去推動是 是的"},{"start":791.934,"end":812.469,"text":"主要的不是那幾億啦主要的是要有成效不要再讓我們看到說什麼24.79%我認為啦參與民間參與公共建設提前終止契約是一個大問題那提前終止契約這個問題齁我統計了一下我統計了一下我們大概"},{"start":813.72,"end":826.372,"text":"提前解約的大概佔了12%每年大概實踐金額大概到1300億左右所以部長我是建議這樣來因為我們促產法是不是在推動我們應該納入"},{"start":828.963,"end":856.025,"text":"強制仲裁這個規定也就是說如果有這些爭議的時候那趕快快速解決要不然你比方說像比方說像屏東大鵬灣現在就爛在那裡啊結果我們政府也花了那麼多錢那擺在那個地方地方的民眾看著眼看著很心急光光沒辦法起色政府也花了錢那好在那邊不知道要拖到何年何月何時所以是不是促三法應該把"},{"start":858.466,"end":884.438,"text":"這個強制仲裁這個規定納進去以公共利益最大化為優先來考量好不好在初三法修正的時候曾經有想走強制仲裁但是後來因為法治上因為不符合因為仲裁必須是雙方合一但是也有說廠商提供仲裁機關不能去我們再用書面再做一般的我都會同意啦只是政府不同意啦"},{"start":884.718,"end":885.04,"text":"好 謝謝委員我們再用書面跟你們補充 謝謝時間委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1374,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（12時25分）謝謝主席，我請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長好，今天有兩個問題，第一個問題是上禮拜我在質詢金管會彭主委的時候，我跟他提到央行有一項規定，就是針對所有銀行貸款給建商空地貸款有個限令，就是空地貸款必須在18個月內即一年半當中取得建造來開工，這是貸款的條件。這個規定行之十數年、二十年之久，我問了一下，我就問我們九大公銀行庫，就是貸款超過18個月還沒有開工的案件有多少及金額多大，結果得到的答復讓我大吃一驚、嚇了一跳，九大公銀行庫貸款給建商空地貸款超過18個月的金額竟然高達2,180億之多，當然九大公銀行庫的模範生像一銀、中小企銀，人家都是十來億而已，可以說是很小的金額，裡面最大金額的竟然是百分之百公股的土地銀行，光是土地銀行一家就高達1,173億，其他八大公銀行庫加起來總和還不夠它一家多，這已經到不可思議的地步。部長，九大公銀行庫的董事長和總經理都是你派的，所以我除了要求金管會要嚴加查察以外，我今天要問你和九大公銀行庫的董事長、總經理，你們貸款給建商裡面多數都是不肖建商才會這麼做，貸款去買了空地，之後擺著不開工、不申請建造，他擺明了就是買地、養地、圈地，就是這麼簡單！","部長，我把尾數刪掉，2,000億就好，我們抓100萬1坪的建地就好，2,000億可以買100萬的建地買20萬坪耶，也就是說我們公營行庫體系隨時擺著2,000億給這些不肖建商拿去買地、圈地、養地，變相的助長他們炒作房地產，變相的助長不肖建商拉抬房價，難怪全國各地不只首都而已，你看這兩三年來房地產的漲幅。過去我們社會還有那麼多中產階級，現在中產階級通通變成屋奴，因為房地產大幅上漲啊，這大幅上漲背後的幫兇竟然是我們公營行庫，最大的幫兇就是土地銀行！董事長站起來，總經理站起來，何董、張總，我不曉得你們來多久了，今天我把數字跟你們講，有1,173億，你怎麼解決？"],["何董事長英明：報告委員，我們已經開始在解決，到9月的時候已經少掉202億，到10月的時候少掉了260億。"],["王委員世堅：到9月、10月，各少掉兩百多億？"],["何董事長英明：就是額度在減。"],["王委員世堅：額度減？減個兩百多億這樣還不夠啦，土地銀行不要拿這個當藉口，我私下找你們問的時候，你們說土地銀行是專業的，建築融資、土地融資……"],["主席：兩位請上備詢台。"],["王委員世堅：我以為主席會請他坐下。"],["主席：不會啦！"],["王委員世堅：謝謝主席。董事長，你們私下答復說你們是專業的，專業的建築融資、土地融資，沒錯！你是專業沒錯，你借的金額也超大沒錯，總計你這些房地的借款1兆4,805億，可是跟你一樣大的臺灣銀行是1兆4,819億，還多你14億，臺灣銀行當然也不少啦，它逾18個月未動工購地貸款是142億，剛好是你的尾數，你比它多1,000億！再看三商銀，我剛才講一銀是模範銀行，它借的比你少，大概是你的一半，但是人家只有12億；彰銀更不用講，彰銀貸放在建築土地融資的1兆5,000億超過你，結果彰銀逾期的金額也是你的尾數，才148億，所以你怎麼解釋這個？","部長，你是他們政治的母親，你拉拔他們出來的嘛，所以這件事我就交給你，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員，委員所說超過18個月還沒有動工的購地貸款，這個數額確實要處理跟控制，也不能過度的集中。"],["王委員世堅：那就交給你啦，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：其他各銀行，我就不多唸啦，比較多的超過200億的，我稍微唸一下。合庫林董事長、王總經理，你們是260億，我讓你們知道一下啦，好不好？跟一銀和臺企銀學習嘛，問他們是怎麼控管的，好不好？"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["王委員世堅：他們有當一回事啊！合作金庫本來在我的名單裡面算是模範銀行，現在只好暫時把你剔除啦。部長，我就交給你啦，兩位董事長、總經理請回。","部長，我還有第二個問題。我們臺灣的人民就是那麼吃苦耐勞，我們的超額儲蓄率這幾年確實逐年創新高，這非常的好，超額儲蓄率從大概5年前開始每年2.23兆，之後都突破3兆以上，到了今年預期可能超額儲蓄3.84兆，超額儲蓄率高達15.46%，這個睥睨先進國家，包括德國才4.2%，日本2.1%，韓國1.8%，美國更扯是負數-1.8%。這些都是正面，現在問題是我們國家國民辛苦所得超額的儲蓄率跟資金，如何把它引導到能夠參與國家的公共建設？也就是民間參與公共建設，但是隨著我們超額儲蓄增加，民間參與公共建設的量能都沒有明顯成長，光是統計107年到現在，這6年裡面從107年的83件開始，有時候稍微增加到90幾件，最高來到172件，到去年才100件，金額也都大概在1,000出頭億，去年總結1,876億。","我為什麼跟部長講這個呢？就是這裡面的金額，財政部還是把其他法令參與公共建設的都算進去。部長，我現在列給你看的是，去年100件金額是1,876億，比方說，這是根據大眾捷運法，根據國有財產法，根據都市更新條例，這種獎勵的你通通算進去，這些不單單只是促參法的金額。所以也就是單就促參法而言，我們的成效更差，這個促參法的推動，我們不是沒花錢耶，部長，這不是你編的，102年到110年所謂的促參中程計畫花了7億2,000萬，花了7億2,000萬，結果撲通下去，你看就是剛才那個成績啊，沒什麼成績。那麼花了這些錢以後，促參法占民間投資總額不到3成，只占24.79%，我在表格右下角列出這個數據，花了那些錢下去說只是去推動促參法，只是去推動喔，就要花那些預算，結果結論24.79%！今年又編了，是在部長您任內，但不是今年編的，是前年編的，編到114年為止要5億1,000萬，所以部長我就跟你說，這5億1,700萬是你任內的，這你責無旁貸，你一定要監督這一筆錢下去推動促參法的成效是怎樣，部長，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，您提到超額儲蓄的部分，確實我們是希望把民間資金都投入到國家的公共建設，促參是其中一個方式，當然也有依照非促參法來做，同樣也是民間投資的，譬如它依照電業法或者是獎參條例的交通建設等等都有，包含商港法也是。促參法的部分，我們在111年修正以後展開了所謂促參2.0，我們會希望做得更大的部分，相關的子法也都在訂定當中，我們希望這個部分會加大力道來推動促參。那還有一個金融產品……"],["王委員世堅：等你說完後，我再跟你講我最後的結論，你有要繼續補充嗎？不然就我跟你講，其實你有做嘛，你也編了預算，前一筆7億多不是在你任內，再來這一筆就是你任內，一直到明年，這5億1,000萬……"],["莊部長翠雲：國家的中長程計畫。"],["王委員世堅：我認為這一筆預算你要嚴格去監督、推動，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["王委員世堅：主要的不是那幾億，主要的是要有成效，不要再讓我們看到什麼24.79%，我認為民間參與公共建設，提前終止契約是一個大問題，提前終止契約這個問題，我統計了一下，我們提前解約的大概占了12%，每年實踐金額大概到1,300億左右。所以我是建議部長這樣，我們促參法在推動時應該納入強制仲裁這個規定，也就是如果有這些爭議的時候，要趕快快速解決，要不然比方像屏東大鵬灣現在就爛在那裡，結果我們政府也花了那麼多錢，擺在那個地方，地方的民眾眼看著也很心急，觀光沒辦法起色，政府也花了錢，耗在那邊不知要拖到何年何月何時？所以是不是促參法應該把強制仲裁這個規定納進去，以公共利益最大化為優先來考量，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝，在促參法修正的時候曾經有想走強制仲裁。"],["主席：部長是不是再補書面？"],["莊部長翠雲：後來因為法制上不符合，因為仲裁必須是雙方合議，但是也有說廠商提出仲裁，機關不得拒絕。"],["主席：部長請以書面說明。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再用書面跟委員說明。"],["王委員世堅：一般都會同意，只是政府不同意。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王世堅委員。","接著請羅廷瑋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156830","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156830","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667879468f844f6ab4d29fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be7778f5872ee59a395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"12:33:41 - 12:39:37","影片長度":"00:05:56","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:33:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:39:37+08:00","duration":356,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.493468750000002,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.73784375,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.922218750000003,"end":21.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.36096875,"end":26.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.047843750000002,"end":29.612843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.70159375,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.300343750000003,"end":42.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.33409375,"end":31.418468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.69096875,"end":51.854093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.157843750000005,"end":56.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.83221875,"end":96.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.98596875,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.23784375000001,"end":80.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.42346875,"end":80.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.62846875000001,"end":91.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.96096875,"end":105.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.78659375000001,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.24096875000001,"end":123.01596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.71346875,"end":115.01721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.87784375000001,"end":116.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.51034375,"end":119.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.26534375000001,"end":120.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.56471875000001,"end":121.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.69096875000001,"end":124.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.95659375000001,"end":135.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":133.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.42784375000002,"end":133.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.08159375,"end":169.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.32971875,"end":140.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.73034375,"end":142.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.07534375,"end":148.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.87659375,"end":151.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.64846875,"end":152.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.93409375000002,"end":161.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.37159375000002,"end":183.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.09534375,"end":183.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.68159375000002,"end":192.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.35659375,"end":185.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.92534375000002,"end":190.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.33846875,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.37221875,"end":192.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.40596875,"end":224.46846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.28721875000002,"end":196.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.94909375,"end":201.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.45346875,"end":213.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.46846875000003,"end":233.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.51909375000002,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.61471875,"end":244.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.83659375000002,"end":255.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.51846875,"end":259.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.61534375,"end":257.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.35784375000003,"end":257.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.69096875,"end":264.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.22596875,"end":294.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.23846875000004,"end":268.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.03471875,"end":273.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.84034375000005,"end":275.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.41284375000004,"end":284.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.36596875000004,"end":286.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.41596875,"end":290.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.21284375000005,"end":294.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.14096875,"end":300.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.15284375000005,"end":329.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.79409375,"end":301.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.53096875,"end":312.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.95971875000004,"end":321.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.23784375,"end":323.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.32971875000004,"end":350.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.05471875,"end":334.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.34909375,"end":340.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.42471875,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.85471875,"end":344.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.57971875000004,"end":350.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.47409375,"end":351.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.57096875,"end":353.76471875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.563,"end":21.927,"text":"修法規劃內容與進程：一、邀請農業部長就 «我國動物保護政策執行概況．及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程》。"},{"start":27.096,"end":31.458,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":52.285,"end":80.066,"text":"流容量最大值是9,481隻那相對於現在其實我們統計過後就是在各區的這個16萬隻的這個遊蕩犬我想即便是這個20億幾億的這個預算下去其實都沒辦法沒辦法滿足那這個部分我們知道是非常明顯的不可行然後另外呢其實很多人可能就會想說那還有一些民間的收養的收容的部分一些愛爸愛媽他們的一些收容中心"},{"start":80.826,"end":95.742,"text":"這個部分我們是不是可以納入法規來做這樣子的一個管理我們知道2020年其實我們有提到可以跟地方政府來做合作然後輔導這些私人的狗場正常的一個運作但是後來可能真的也無疾而終那目前有沒有最新的進度"},{"start":97.211,"end":113.218,"text":"我想特別是剛才委員提到這些數字是我們遇到的困擾所以在源頭的繁殖的部分我們會去加到力道因為繁殖的部分如果能夠掌握它的整個的一個動物的來龍去貓的時候那就會減少它的棄養"},{"start":114.284,"end":135.083,"text":"因為有很多的繁殖場是非法繁殖場他是隱身在很多的社區當中狗狗被弄掉生帶他們是真的沒有辦法發出聲音所以其實不為人所知啊對所以這個部分就是我們曾經在修好我剛才說我們尊重委員的版本就是說繁殖場要去管理對要更高的強度來管理會比較好一點"},{"start":135.623,"end":136.704,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":155.794,"end":163.477,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":183.763,"end":184.984,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":207.967,"end":222.536,"text":"公告了今年8月之後其實我們的家貓開始要做這樣子的寵物登記但是很多人就會擔心他如果跟狂犬病疫苗綁在一起其實他有可能會導致所謂的惡性腫瘤的這個部分"},{"start":223.136,"end":251.263,"text":"這個部分我們有因應方法嗎?其實我們現在有提出更科學的證據就是過去我們已經施打了100萬隻左右大概沒有什麼特別的問題所以我想把登記跟狂犬病本身它可能會造成的一些負面的影響我們用科學證據讓民眾知道這是一件事情第二件事情我也可以先考慮登記跟打狂犬病是不是可以先適度的脫鉤因為登記是一個非常重要的管理的手段"},{"start":251.843,"end":254.884,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":271.651,"end":293.448,"text":"其實我提了很多的意見尤其是在虐待動物的部分那這個部分呢其實我想飼養寵物其實有很多不同的方式都有可能碰及觸及到所謂的虐待的一些行為包含他不當的飼養關籠或者是牽繩啊這永遠就看著或者是一直在頂樓然後只給水然後也沒有陪伴這個部分其實我們到目前為止"},{"start":295.189,"end":311.188,"text":"我們有沒有跟農業部這邊如果我們在動物保護法的修法這邊可以達到一些共識嗎我想就是有關於這種虐待動物本身他必須有一些分類跟定義包括您剛才講的如果說你給他不適當的環境其實他也是某種程度的虐待"},{"start":312.449,"end":315.373,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":330.073,"end":351.286,"text":"最後最後就是6月28號的時候其實部長我們大家各界關心好多年的動保警察的部分我想那時候你也有特別承諾就是說我們可能要加附動檢員他有類似像這樣子的一個稽查的能力好那我想好okok那我們得到一個很好的回應那之後動保法的修法的部分我們再來細說那請委員支持謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1006,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（12時33分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：部長好，剛剛聽到好消息，動保法12月可能會送院，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，應該是12月。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我們期待。首先先強調，在我關心流浪動物這麼多年的一段時間，其實我們在總質詢也有談到，我先從公立收容所的部分來看，全臺灣的收容所改建完成之後，最大的留容量是9,481隻，相對於現在我們統計各地16萬隻的遊蕩犬，我想即便是20億元、幾億元的預算下去，其實都沒辦法滿足，這個部分我們知道非常明顯的不可行。另外，很多人可能就會想說還有一些民間收容的部分，這些愛爸愛媽的收容中心，這個部分是不是可以納入法規來管理？我們在2020年有提到可以跟地方政府合作，輔導這些私人的狗場正常運作，但是後來也無疾而終，目前有沒有最新的進度？"],["陳部長駿季：特別是剛才委員提到的這些數字，其實是我們遇到的困擾，所以在源頭繁殖的部分，我們會加大力道，因為繁殖的部分如果能夠掌握整個動物來龍去脈的時候，就會減少棄養。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為有很多的繁殖場是非法繁殖場，隱身在很多的社區當中，狗狗被弄掉聲帶，牠們是真的沒有辦法發出聲音，所以不為人所知。"],["陳部長駿季：我們曾經在修法，我剛才說我尊重委員的版本，繁殖場要去管理。"],["郭委員昱晴：加強強度來管理。"],["陳部長駿季：對，用更高的強度來管理會比較好一點。"],["郭委員昱晴：剛剛也聽到申翰委員所說的野保和動保之間難免還是會有一些競合的部分，我們都知道TNVR其實需要時間去醞釀，我們也知道撲殺絕對不會是唯一的解方，野保的動物生存也面臨很多的處境，包含在熱區遊蕩犬貓的問題，這個部分農業部能不能頂得住壓力、會不會考慮恢復撲殺？"],["陳部長駿季：我們目前沒有考慮恢復撲殺，但是我們針對收容所裡面已經沒有辦法行動、需要長期需要其他支付部分，可以用人道處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：由獸醫師。"],["陳部長駿季：對，讓收容所的周轉率能夠提高，我想這個部分會先來處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：另外，在寵登的部分也是非常重要，能夠控制整個貓犬的數量，做比較合理的計算，農業部日前也公告了今年8月之後家貓開始要做寵物登記，但是很多人就會擔心如果它跟狂犬病疫苗綁在一起，有可能會導致惡性腫瘤的部分，這部分有因應方法嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：其實我們現在有提出更科學的證據，過去我們已經施打了100萬隻左右，大概沒什麼特別的問題，所以把登記和狂犬病本身可能會造成的負面影響，我們用科學證據讓民眾知道，這是一件事情。第二件事情，我也可以先考慮登記跟打狂犬病疫苗是不是可以先適度脫鉤，因為登記是一個非常重要的管理手段，狂犬病對貓來講，很多人認為它……"],["郭委員昱晴：很多人希望脫鉤，我們分兩塊來進行。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們可以脫鉤，但是我們也會努力去打狂犬病疫苗，因為畢竟狂犬病疫苗是很重要的方式。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們還是希望能夠分別，現在的貓奴其實很多。最後，因為動保法我提了很多的意見，尤其是在虐待動物的部分，我想飼養寵物其實有很多不同的方式都有可能觸及虐待動物的行為，包含不當的飼養、關籠、牽繩，或者一直在頂樓只給水，也沒有陪伴，到目前為止，在動保法的修法上，這個部分跟農業部可以達到一些共識嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有關虐待動物有一些分類和定義，包括你剛才講的如果給牠不適當的環境，其實也是某種程度的虐待，這個部分會根據你是都會區或鄉下區，剛才委員很多建議，包括不能只是用藥物或槍枝才會有重大的刑責，我們會趁這次的機會，重新去看看委員的意見，一併把它納進來。"],["郭委員昱晴：最後，6月28日各界關心很多年的動保警察的部分，那時候你也有特別承諾我們可能要加賦動檢員有類似這樣稽查的能力……"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經放到法裡面。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們得到很好的回應，之後動保法修法的時候再來細說。"],["陳部長駿季：請委員支持，謝謝。"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：請賴惠員、賴惠員、賴惠員委員不在。","請羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","請徐富癸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156829","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156829","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66786266b2f1d1e9cdf3370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86bea86133156bd620685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:31:50 - 12:39:31","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:31:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:39:31+08:00","duration":461,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.334093750000001,"end":6.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.527843750000001,"end":7.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.77659375,"end":8.434718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.286593750000002,"end":11.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.30346875,"end":11.657843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.89409375,"end":12.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.957218750000003,"end":15.505343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.00721875,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.30596875,"end":23.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.26784375,"end":25.039718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.42784375,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.54971875,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.372218750000002,"end":35.721593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.26159375,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.62846875,"end":40.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.68284375,"end":56.376593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.579093750000006,"end":57.760343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.080968750000004,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.15221875,"end":63.83534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.34159375,"end":64.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.42159375,"end":67.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.23971875000001,"end":70.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.12534375,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.29659375,"end":83.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.06846875000001,"end":85.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.97534375000001,"end":88.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.38846875,"end":88.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.83971875,"end":92.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.43409375,"end":95.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.83034375000001,"end":98.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.22659375,"end":100.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.72409375000001,"end":103.01909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.47471875000001,"end":106.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.06909375000001,"end":108.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.14471875000001,"end":112.48596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.32971875000001,"end":124.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.73721875000001,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.46659375000002,"end":128.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.48346875000001,"end":128.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.58471875,"end":128.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.66909375,"end":128.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.88846875000002,"end":128.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.97284375,"end":131.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.36909375000002,"end":135.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.26721875,"end":148.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.27784375000002,"end":165.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.55784375000002,"end":170.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.11471875,"end":167.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.08471875,"end":172.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.71721875,"end":172.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.47659375,"end":172.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":174.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.21471875,"end":183.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.94034375,"end":175.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.31034375000002,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.78659375,"end":188.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.26721875,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.05971875,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.59846875000002,"end":210.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.42846875,"end":214.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.76534375,"end":216.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.46971875000003,"end":218.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.16971875000002,"end":219.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.92909375000002,"end":223.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.41784375,"end":227.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.69159375,"end":231.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.97784375,"end":232.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.61909375000002,"end":232.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.85534375,"end":238.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.77846875,"end":239.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.01034375,"end":249.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.62909375,"end":253.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.74659375000002,"end":261.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.19284375,"end":262.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.25159375000004,"end":290.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.28534375000004,"end":262.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.10784375000003,"end":297.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.19534375,"end":298.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.97159375,"end":300.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.18221875,"end":317.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.88846875,"end":317.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.42846875000004,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.03596875,"end":321.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.60096875,"end":334.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.84784375000004,"end":343.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.93221875,"end":335.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.69034375,"end":350.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.50784375,"end":363.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.77159375,"end":365.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.59409375,"end":379.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.24721875,"end":372.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.06971875000005,"end":373.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.71846875,"end":383.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.93721875,"end":386.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.32909375,"end":395.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.12534375,"end":409.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.23909375000005,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.26221875000005,"end":430.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.55534375,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.68096875000003,"end":440.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.36284375,"end":445.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.73346875000004,"end":446.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.47596875000005,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.58909375,"end":455.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.53346875000005,"end":460.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.45284375000006,"end":461.96721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.36,"end":4.981,"text":"體育發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":28.598,"end":57.349,"text":"體育發展部組織法草案案案件,我們國家的體育被很多的體育協會把持著所以長期以來有很多人就是開始詬病甚至都是由政壇的人物來擔任理事長政壇人物擔任理事長之後他又會衍生一些資源扭曲分配不公一些黑箱作業的問題就一再的發生這個在體育圈也是被非常多專業的運動員大家都很有意見"},{"start":58.169,"end":58.749,"text":"發展部組織法草案 案。"},{"start":75.817,"end":77.939,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一．一．一．一．一．一．一．一"},{"start":90.598,"end":98.163,"text":"遊泳選手丁聖佑等國手名單黑箱作業,操弄比賽和領選規則。台灣到底還有什麼東西不能造假?體育這個東西應該是無國界,應該是一個全民熱愛的東西,但是卻有很多這個問題在裡面。首先請教署長,"},{"start":113.396,"end":119,"text":"運動部組織法草案案件事宜,可否避免類似的情況發生?例如政治人物把持的一些協會來干預政府組織的運作,這個有沒有辦法去避免?"},{"start":128.487,"end":157.788,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事務委員。其實我想在整個運動這些運動團體他們面臨的這些困境在過去其實癥結點還是在整個協會的幹部的專業程度的部分所以這部分我們當然未來成立運動部之後我們的人力以及那個我們的預算的部分能夠成長之後我們也特別有一個專責的一個單位來進行特定體育團體的輔導那針對他們的我們從今年去年今年開始已經針對他的會計人員這部分已經在做一個"},{"start":158.948,"end":169.854,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一）行政院函審議及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":183.26,"end":190.345,"text":"發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":209.338,"end":227.725,"text":"所以要麻煩你們既然你們希望升格那你們也要做到有效的管理好那我再請教一下我們的選手代表國家出賽那我看了一下其他國家大概這個選手報酬大概有獎金啊那個出賽費或零用金那署長這個我們國家選手為國出賽這個會不會給予這個出賽費"},{"start":233.127,"end":259.121,"text":"保護委員如果在我們的國內舉辦賽事根據我們國民體育法的規定只要是他有賽事的一個盈餘不是應該說他有一些收入收益性的收入比方說像門票或者是贊助等等那其實他應該要支付我們的選手出賽費的這是那個國民體育法21條的規定那上個會期有委員曾經提案就像您剛有突然講出有盈餘這三個字"},{"start":260.362,"end":285.737,"text":"草案委員我們在施行細則把它改掉了對這是一個核心問題好那我這次就是要請教你這個部分因為之前的施行細則第7條確實是寫說有盈餘嘛那上個會期的時候有委員就提到說他說這個東西出賽費不是獎金啊那這個跟有盈餘到底關聯性在哪裡所以當時是有跟我們回復是說你們會明定說未來這個"},{"start":286.698,"end":286.818,"text":"發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":308.417,"end":333.993,"text":"廣告媒體轉播等等這些贊助金他應該把選手的出賽費這觀念把它列入他的成本而不是一個盈餘的概念來分享給選手對但是我們拿到教育部的報告是說他說這個東西確實有討論然後他也認為說應該支付這些代表對出賽費維護選手權益至於有盈餘是作為出賽費額度的考量"},{"start":334.893,"end":363.026,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 當時是這樣而且有承諾說在一一三年十月會修改後公告但是到昨天我去查了還是沒有改啊報告委員我們今天下午的部會議會把這個實行細則做討論以及希望能夠通過那等於你們還是因為你們當時是給立法院給我們的回覆是一一三年十月對但是現在已經十一月十三號我們今天下午會應該如果那這樣子就麻煩你們說到做到至少"},{"start":363.866,"end":371.751,"text":"行政院函請審議及法制、教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會"},{"start":387.386,"end":409.424,"text":"男子選手每人五千塊的出賽費但女子選手只有三千塊那我想瞭解一下這個差距是什麼因為剛剛范雲委員也蠻重視男女的平權基本上男女生在同樣性質同一場賽事出賽費就是應該一致那你知道這件事嗎我們知道我們也要求他改正他也補發了但是他的基本上藍鞋這部分我們有做糾正"},{"start":410.285,"end":410.605,"text":"事務委員楊瓊瓔"},{"start":430.752,"end":438.501,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件,將來如果升格或是即使現在你們也是主管機關還是要去注意一下這些協會假單據核銷的問題就像那個這個問題其實一直是公開的一個秘密"},{"start":446.591,"end":459.691,"text":"我們希望說避免要有這些詐領一些補助款的那個案例發生好不好因為一直聽到很多人有這個反應好不好那這塊再麻煩你們多注意一下好謝謝吳昭偉謝謝署長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1062,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時31分）謝謝主席，麻煩署長。"],["主席：有請鄭署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：署長你好。本席看了一下臺灣這段時間體育發展的一些問題，在很多問題裡面我們簡單來談幾個，譬如體育發展的困境，就是我們國家的體育被很多體育協會把持著，所以長期以來有很多人開始詬病。甚至都是由政壇人物來擔任理事長，而政壇人物擔任理事長之後，又會衍生一些資源扭曲、分配不公的狀況，黑箱作業的問題就一再的發生，這個在體育圈也是被非常多專業運動員詬病，大家都很有意見。就這段時間的運作，我舉幾個例子，像之前有一個撐竿跳選手葉耀文，他曾經去參加青少年田徑錦標賽的時候，竿子沒有送到會場，結果他沒有竿子可以跳；里約奧運的時候也一樣，當時網球好手謝淑薇退出比賽，他也批評說有非常多不公平的地方；2017年臺北世大運的游泳選手丁聖祐，他也說泳協的國手名單都是黑箱作業，而且還會操弄比賽跟遴選的規則，所以我在想，臺灣到底還有什麼東西不能造假？體育這個東西應該是無國界，應該是一個全民熱愛的東西，但是卻有很多這類的問題存在其中，所以我想請教署長，如果這一次我們讓體育署升格成體育部之後，有沒有辦法去避免類似的情況發生，譬如像政治人物把持著一些協會，透過協會來干預政府組織的運作，這個有沒有辦法去避免？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我想這些運動團體他們過去面臨的困境，其實癥結點還是在整個協會幹部的專業程度，所以這部分當然未來我們成立運動部之後，我們的人力以及預算的部分能夠成長之後，我們也特別有一個專責的單位來進行特定集團的輔導，我們從今年開始已經針對它的會計人員這部分在做培訓，未來我們針對它的選訓等等，其實說穿了，幹部的專業度才是真正的重點。"],["吳委員宗憲：其實有很多黑箱、浮報這一些東西是歷年來都有的嘛。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分當然我們現在有很多SOP來進行……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，那你們有把握能夠把這個控管好嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：我想這個部分，我們未來會大幅度地改善，比方說像今年，謝淑薇就在體育署的支持之下，讓她能夠成功的站上巴黎的奧運，這背後其實有很多的協調跟很多的付出。"],["吳委員宗憲：你要知道，像這些人在國際賽事上面得名次，他們甚至是很多不同國家運動員的偶像，當他發表說我們國內對於遴選有這麼多的黑箱、這麼多難堪的地方，那等於是把臺灣的顏面掃地，讓其他的國家來笑話我們臺灣原來政府這麼無能，連這個都管不好。所以要麻煩你們，既然你們希望升格，那你們也要做到有效的管理。"],["鄭署長世忠：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：我再請教一下，我們的選手代表國家出賽，我看了一下其他的國家，這個選手的報酬大概有獎金、出賽費或零用金，署長，選手為國出賽我們國家會不會給予出賽費？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，如果在我們國內舉辦賽事，根據國民體育法的規定，只要是賽事有盈餘，不是，應該說它有一些收益性的收入，比方說像門票或者是贊助等等，它應該要支付我們的選手出賽費的。"],["吳委員宗憲：這是國民體育法第二十一條的規定嘛。"],["鄭署長世忠：對。"],["吳委員宗憲：上個會期有委員曾經提案，就像您剛剛突然講出「有盈餘」這三個字，我想這是一個核心問題……"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們在施行細則把它改掉了。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，這是一個核心問題，我這次就是要請教你這個部分。因為之前的施行細則第七條確實是寫說「有盈餘」，上個會期的時候，有委員就提到說，出賽費這個東西不是獎金，這個跟有無盈餘到底關聯性在哪裡？所以，當時有跟我們回復說，你們會明定未來這個……應該是這麼說，你們是說有無盈餘這個只是一個額度的考量，並不是該有或不該有的認定標準，當時你們好像是回復我們這樣，對不對？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，基本上我們是說，我們希望他把這部分算是他的成本之一，就是說他今天舉辦賽事，如果他有門票、廣告、媒體轉播等等這些贊助金，他應該把選手的出賽費這個部分列入他的成本，而不是以盈餘的概念來分享給選手。"],["吳委員宗憲：對，但是我們拿到教育部的報告，它說這個東西確實有討論，然後它也認為應該支付代表隊出賽費，維護選手的權益，至於有無盈餘是作為出賽費額度的考量，當時是這樣說，而且有承諾說在113年10月會修改後公告，但是到昨天為止我去查了，還是沒有改。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們今天下午的部務會議會針對施行細則做討論，以及希望能夠通過。"],["吳委員宗憲：因為你們當時給立法院，給我們的回復是113年10月，但是現在已經11月13號了。"],["鄭署長世忠：對，我們今天下午應該會通過。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，如果這樣子就麻煩你們說到做到，至少施行細則的部分，有盈餘這個條件我覺得是蠻莫名其妙的，而且它跟母法根本沒有關聯性……"],["鄭署長世忠：這次我們把它改掉了。"],["吳委員宗憲：你們怎麼會創設去做這個規範？麻煩你們要做到。再來一個就是出賽費的額度問題，我們看了一下去年瓊斯杯籃球邀請賽的出賽費，男子選手每人5,000塊，但是女子選手只有3,000塊，我想了解一下這個差距是什麼？因為剛剛范雲委員也蠻重視男女平權。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這件事已經討論過，這個不應該，基本上男女生在同樣性質同一場賽事的出賽費就是應該一致。"],["吳委員宗憲：你知道這件事嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：我們知道，我們也要求他改正，他也補發了，針對籃協這邊，我們有做糾正。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，男女平權這一塊就麻煩你們要注意一下，我延續剛剛范雲委員的論述，這個請你們一定要注意，你們要回去看一下，是不是有一些賽事也有發生男子選手跟女子選手的出賽費用不同……"],["鄭署長世忠：會，這個我們有通函去要求各個協會遵守。"],["吳委員宗憲：最後我希望將來如果升格，或是即使現在你們也是主管機關，還是要去注意一下這些協會假單據核銷的問題，其實這個問題一直是一個公開的秘密嘛，我們希望要避免有這些詐領補助款的案例發生，好不好？因為一直聽到有很多人反映，好不好？這一塊再麻煩你們多注意一下。謝謝。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["主席：謝謝吳召委，謝謝署長。接下來有請高金素梅委員，高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","有請王委員正旭發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156828","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156828","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678588f12c00bc2fcb69fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be4001ca9689ad817b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:25:51 - 12:33:34","影片長度":"00:07:43","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:33:34+08:00","duration":463,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":17.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.49034375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.228468750000005,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.88096875,"end":42.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.12971875,"end":46.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.82534375,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.97534375,"end":61.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.01284375,"end":67.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.22721875,"end":67.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.27346875,"end":72.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.43721875,"end":79.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.64721875000001,"end":81.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.95909375000001,"end":83.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.37221875,"end":84.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.43534375,"end":86.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.98784375000001,"end":87.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.94971875,"end":93.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.97409375000001,"end":118.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.96596875,"end":121.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.95284375000001,"end":122.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.08784375,"end":125.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.20971875000001,"end":125.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.27721875,"end":125.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.93534375,"end":130.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.43659375000001,"end":132.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.70221875000001,"end":136.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.70159375,"end":137.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.68034375000002,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.28846875000002,"end":166.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.87409375000001,"end":169.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.43471875,"end":174.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.21471875,"end":178.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.66596875000002,"end":175.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.82159375,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.27659375000002,"end":183.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.93034375000002,"end":187.95096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.22096875000003,"end":193.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.89096875,"end":194.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.85284375,"end":195.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.13534375,"end":208.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.82534375,"end":209.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.83784375000002,"end":210.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.79971875,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.89221875,"end":217.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.70159375,"end":222.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.27034375000002,"end":224.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.87346875,"end":225.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.97034375,"end":241.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.04409375,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.02284375000002,"end":249.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.19534375,"end":245.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.12284375000002,"end":249.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.83159375000002,"end":257.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.74596875000003,"end":259.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.81346875,"end":258.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.96096875,"end":263.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.20909375,"end":272.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.60534375000003,"end":266.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.51221875000005,"end":268.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.52909375,"end":269.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.32596875,"end":285.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.64596875,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.99471875,"end":286.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.36159375,"end":294.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.25909375000003,"end":300.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.19909375000003,"end":306.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.49784375,"end":307.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.27409375,"end":308.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.97846875000005,"end":313.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.21471875000003,"end":309.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.33284375,"end":309.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.66971875,"end":314.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.77909375,"end":316.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.19659375000003,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.15409375,"end":319.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.66034375000004,"end":319.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.67721875,"end":319.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.74471875,"end":319.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.76159375000003,"end":319.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.79534375000003,"end":320.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.97659375,"end":325.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.15721875,"end":327.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.57471875000005,"end":331.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.30409375000005,"end":334.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.30346875000004,"end":339.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.13409375000003,"end":342.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.40346875,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.17534375,"end":346.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.74471875,"end":355.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.87409375000004,"end":372.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.17096875000004,"end":383.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.66721875,"end":388.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.34159375,"end":392.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.96534375000005,"end":415.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.03784375000004,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.50534375,"end":420.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.87221875,"end":422.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.98159375,"end":424.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.45596875,"end":439.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.69221875000005,"end":454.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.10409375,"end":453.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.33971875000003,"end":458.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.75721875000005,"end":455.82471875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.189,"end":16.354,"text":"賴思寶、賴思寶、賴思寶委員不在請何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳委員不在請李坤澄、李坤澄、李坤澄、李坤澄委員不在請高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在請洪森漢委員質詢。"},{"start":30.503,"end":32.93,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":43.247,"end":59.643,"text":"市長,上個禮拜天其實有這個將近五千位關心生態保育的民眾上了街頭那他們非常關注遊蕩犬貓其實對於目前生態的帶來的一些衝擊部長應該知道這件事情吧?知道部長其實我認為你應該到場的"},{"start":62.579,"end":86.075,"text":"其實現場有很多是我們生態領域的專家學者其實他們都是可以幫助我們來解決相關問題的很重要的以重的幫手那部長我想先請問農業部其實在犬貓與野生動物保育這個農業部是犬貓跟野生動物保育的主管機關那對於大家現在擔心的這些問題這個農業部打算怎麼處理"},{"start":87.208,"end":109.144,"text":"我想因為他們的訴求大概有三個層次就是第一個部分就是針對比較重要就是針對流浪犬的這些更積極有效的處理的方式那這個處理方式當然我們現在目前有我們的有我們的規劃包括盪到熱區盪到村裡可是我一直覺得盪到村裡以後還是有村裡的執行是不夠的"},{"start":109.924,"end":135.858,"text":"所以我後續會去研議用一個跨村裡的一個團隊去共同執行的方式可能會有比較好的效果不然我因為我就直接講我們想提醒的重點我知道你們現在大概有所謂生態熱區的計畫這部分動保司其實也有在改善這部分我們都歡迎鼓勵但其實我想更重要的事情是其實農業部轄下也有很多的保護區是"},{"start":137.899,"end":158.775,"text":"這保護區裡面我們目前也看到很多野生動物被咬傷的這個案例包括我們現在看到幾個例子裡面包括四草野生動物保護區裡面的黑面皮魯或者香山濕地的這重要的水鳥其實都有遇到攻擊但是他們現在遇到的威脅不只是這個遊蕩犬毛也還有包括其他的但是這裡面看起來"},{"start":159.275,"end":168.157,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":185.22,"end":212.439,"text":"所以我們現在看到幾個狀況包括其實內政部所管的國家公園裡面已經有禁止民眾餵食遊蕩犬貓的規定了那也包括農業部為了預防狂犬病的傳染其實也禁止民眾把犬貓帶入自然保護區可是我們剛剛針對這幾個農業部所狹下的保護區的概念裡面我們沒有看到類似包括你該做的一致的操作指引"},{"start":212.995,"end":242.458,"text":"或者是禁止民眾餵食這樣的規範我們目前其實沒有看到部長你覺不覺得我們在這幾個反而更重要的保護區裡面有更珍貴的這個動植物應該要做相關的規範部長我跟你講非常認同這之前我也跟我們的相關的林保署等單位處理過就是說我們化令業政策保護區裡面也要一定要禁止餵食你如果沒有禁止餵食什麼都不要談部長如果你有這個概念的話我覺得我們就把行動做出來吧"},{"start":243.178,"end":263.596,"text":"該做的規範包括依次的質疑我們會盡快把它做出來我們可不可以在兩個月內把這樣子的做法拔給提出來這應該不難我們可以提出來但是我們現在的同仁回報的問題就是說我禁止餵食以後後面的法則要跟著出來不然是沒有用的我覺得因為這裡面牽涉到你們保護區裡面88個我也同意你們找出"},{"start":264.296,"end":286.127,"text":"也最嚴重的有一個優先順序我這同意可是我們開始有所行動好不好這我想提醒的第一點第二點我想提醒其實我們現在也針對不管是野保法動保法目前都有大修的規劃但是不然我想提醒其實我覺得這是一個好的時機我認為應該通盤的檢討動保法野保法畜牧法漁業法等相關法規其實"},{"start":287.423,"end":316.522,"text":"很多專家都提醒我們這裡面幾部法裡面都有一些相互衝突重疊或職責模糊的地方那這很造成中央地方無所適從的問題我舉個例子不好意思一點時間比方說野保法第三條對野生動物的定義是一般狀況下生活在自然環境的動物那什麼是一般狀況比方說梅花鹿算不算生活在自然環境下的動物算不算梅花鹿算不算"},{"start":317.25,"end":334.196,"text":"棉花鹿應該是一般動物啊對,棉花鹿算不算可是我跟部長說就農業部規定裡面棉花鹿他說棉花鹿喔不算牠不算是野生動物他是家畜可是我們看到肯定很多的棉花鹿牠們有4組啊"},{"start":335.316,"end":340.581,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":353.513,"end":383.313,"text":"最後這個獵人就在不知道是誰主管的狀況下下令開槍就造成了這個悲劇所以我說這幾個法規動保法、野保法、畜牧法、漁業法這幾個法規其實是有一些彼此漢格模糊地帶的地方我一個建議是我們也應該趁這個時間點不應該是動保是修自己的動保法然後林保署修自己的野保法那可是彼此中間其實現在很多執行的模糊地帶我認為農業部應該把這件事情扛起來假設我們現在這幾個法規都有想要修的打算"},{"start":383.853,"end":385.735,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":399.628,"end":424.014,"text":"但是你提到的畜牧法的部分我的確是過去是沒有去注意那我想我們後續會再來看畜牧法本身跟動物保護法跟野保護法之間有一些謀無地帶的話我們可以也許如果可以在動物保護裡面去處理就在動物保護裡面去處理但部長我當然知道說這個工作法規的檢討部分會需要一點時間比方說我覺得你可以有三個月的我可以給農業部三個月的時間這些相關的競合把它盤清楚"},{"start":424.434,"end":425.274,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":439.502,"end":441.103,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":972,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（12時26分）請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，上個禮拜天有將近5,000位關心生態保育的民眾上了街頭，他們非常關注遊蕩犬貓對目前生態帶來的衝擊，部長應該知道這件事情吧！"],["陳部長駿季：知道。"],["洪委員申翰：我認為你應該到場的，其實現場有很多生態領域的專家學者，他們都是可以幫助我們解決相關問題很重要的、倚重幫手。先請教部長，農業部是犬貓與野生動物保育的主管機關？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["洪委員申翰：對於現在大家擔心的這些問題，農業部打算怎麼處理？"],["陳部長駿季：他們的訴求大概有三個層次，第一個部分……"],["洪委員申翰：簡單說。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分比較重要就是針對流浪犬有更積極、有效的處理方式，目前我們當然有我們的規劃，包括熱區down到村里，可是我一直覺得down到村里以後，還是由村里來執行是不夠的，所以我後續會去研議用一個跨村里的團隊去共同執行的方式，可能會有比較好的效果。"],["洪委員申翰：我就直接講我想提醒的重點，我當然知道你們現在有生態熱區的計畫，這部分動保司其實也有在改善，這部分我們都歡迎、鼓勵，但我想更重要的事情是農業部轄下有很多的保護區，在保護區裡面我們也看到很多野生動物被咬傷的案例，我們現在看到的幾個例子，包括四草野生動物保護區裡面的黑面琵鷺或香山濕地重要的水鳥，其實都有遇到攻擊，當然牠們現在遇到的威脅不只是遊蕩犬貓，也包括其他的，我們陸續看到有這樣的案例，不管是自然保留區、自然保護區、野生動物重要棲息地環境、野生動物保護區，這幾個保護區其實都是農業部透過法規要來保護這些珍貴的動植物而把區域框起來，嚴格限制裡面人類的行為。照理來說，任何會影響裡面生物多樣性的行為都應該要管制，部長同不同意？"],["陳部長駿季：同意。"],["洪委員申翰：我們現在看到幾個狀況，其實內政部所管的國家公園裡面已經有禁止民眾餵食遊蕩犬貓的規定，也包括農業部為了預防狂犬病的傳染，其實也禁止民眾把犬貓帶入保護區。可是我們針對這幾個農業部轄下的保護區，我們沒有看到類似你該做的移置的操作指引或者禁止民眾餵食的規範，我們目前其實沒有看到。這幾個更重要的保護區裡面有更珍貴的動植物，部長是否覺得應該要做相關的規範？"],["陳部長駿季：我非常認同，之前我也跟相關的林保署等單位處理過，我們劃定的自然保護區裡面一定要禁止餵食，如果沒有禁止餵食，什麼都不要談了。"],["洪委員申翰：如果部長有這樣的概念，我們就把行動做出來，該做的規範，包括移置的指引……"],["陳部長駿季：我們會儘快把它弄出來。"],["洪委員申翰：可不可以在2個月之內把這樣的做法提出來，這應該不難。"],["陳部長駿季：我們可以提出來，但是現在我們同仁回報的問題是我們禁止餵食以後，後面的罰則要跟著出來，不然是沒有用的。"],["洪委員申翰：當然，因為這牽涉到你們88個保護區，我也同意你們找出最嚴重的，有一個優先順序，可是我們要有所行動，好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們來處理。"],["洪委員申翰：這是我要提醒的第一點。第二點，其實我們現在也針對不管野保法、動保法都有大修的規劃，但我想提醒部長，我覺得這是一個好的時機，我認為應該通盤的檢討動保法、野保法、畜牧法、漁業法等相關法規，其實很多專家都提醒我們這幾部法裡面都有一些相互衝突、重疊或職責模糊的地方，這可能造成中央地方無所適從的問題。我舉個例子，野保法第三條對於野生動物的定義是一般狀況下生活在自然環境的動物。什麼是一般狀況？例如梅花鹿算不算生活在自然環境下的動物？"],["陳部長駿季：梅花鹿應該是一般動物。"],["洪委員申翰：就農業部的規定，梅花鹿不算野生動物，牠是家畜。可是我們看到像墾丁很多的梅花鹿沒有飼主啊！牠是家畜，但你沒有辦法用畜牧法來管理啊！比方去年我們看到的很多人注目的六福村東非狒狒的事件，野生動物被飼主領養了又脫逃，牠到底是要用動保法來管？還是野保的主管機關來管？各有各的解讀。最後，這個獵人就在不知道誰主管的狀況下下令開槍，造成這個悲劇。所以動保法、野保法、畜牧法、漁業法這幾個法規其實是有一些彼此扞格、模糊地帶的地方，我建議我們也應該趁這個時間點，不應該是動保司修自己的動保法，林保署修自己的野保法，可是中間有很多執行的模糊地帶，我認為農業部應該把這件事情扛起來，假設現在這幾個法規都有要修的打算，哪邊有模糊地帶、權責不清或交疊的地方，我們應該一次釐清楚跟跨部會協調。部長，我覺得我們應該做這件事情吧！"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒，針對野保法和動保法，我有做比較仔細的比對，但是你提到的畜牧法的部分，過去我的確沒有注意，我想我們後續會再來看畜牧法本身跟動保法、野保法之間有一些模糊地帶的話，如果可以在動保法裡面處理，就直接在動保法裡面處理。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我當然知道法規的檢討需要一點時間，我可以給農業部3個月的時間，把這些相關的競合盤點清楚，針對已經發生的問題，過去中央地方在執行上面其實都有很困惑的點，我們把它弄清楚以後，在定義上定清楚，或者在執行上面、主管上面定清楚，我們再調整一次這件事情，應該是沒有問題吧！"],["陳部長駿季：可以，我覺得不要3個月，因為現在野保法已經在院裡面，動保法我們希望年底送院，有一部分可以在這兩個法裡面處理的，我們儘可能在1個月之內就提出來。"],["洪委員申翰：你要提前更好，1個月的時間給我們相關法規競合的檢討，提一份報告給我們，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請黃健豪、黃健豪、黃健豪委員不在。","請郭昱晴委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156827","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156827","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678dd0318c3cd881958370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86be07ff25990a71b8fd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:27:13 - 12:31:46","影片長度":"00:04:33","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:27:13+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:31:46+08:00","duration":273,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.443468750000001,"end":7.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.232218750000001,"end":9.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.57721875,"end":15.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.25221875,"end":71.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.84596875,"end":23.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.37534375,"end":38.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.774718750000005,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.93534375,"end":93.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.81409375000001,"end":94.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.82221875,"end":102.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.19221875000001,"end":103.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.23846875000001,"end":105.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.82034375,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.51971875000001,"end":112.68846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.56721875,"end":224.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.68846875,"end":167.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.53596875000002,"end":227.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.54846875,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.70034375,"end":225.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.83534375000002,"end":225.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.04596875000001,"end":228.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.06284375,"end":231.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.18471875,"end":231.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.96096875,"end":238.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.47471875000002,"end":245.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.20346875,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.94971875000002,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.71659375,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.22284375000004,"end":269.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.78659375,"end":272.96721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.442,"end":9.045,"text":"運動已經成為國人生活很重要的一部分,因此我們努力的來推動這個。我們的目標是要拼明年的8月份掛牌上路,是嗎?"},{"start":31.326,"end":32.027,"text":"產業發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":47.647,"end":66.184,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案件中的這三大元素本席要請教部長也就是運動部成立之後本席希望他不是只有一個身格而是要納入整個全新的想法思維來推動全民的運動所以本席想聽聽部長你認為要怎麼樣協助運動環境的一個升級請做說明"},{"start":71.997,"end":98.946,"text":"我想確實感謝委員的一個關心跟支持確實怎麼樣有一個全民更友善的一個運動環境這就是我們運動部第一個要考量的因為當全民能夠維持一個這個定期這個有效的一個運動的時候身體就健康我們其實是常態性的一個運動這時候他就能夠有更好的一個健康身心"},{"start":99.206,"end":128.314,"text":"合法運動發展部組織法草案案案件,我相信不僅是對家庭、對工作、對整個許多的一些發展都是一個正面的。好,我們的目標是共同一致,免利一定要落實。那我們看到一部一署三中心,在這樣的一個情況之下呢,有諮詢委員在諮詢小組裡頭提到,我們現在所規劃的,它只是一個扁平性的一個組織,那這種類別相對的,也就是說容易造成責任,"},{"start":128.814,"end":130.182,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 跟權限他的不明確"},{"start":133.323,"end":133.843,"text":"運動部組織法草案 案 案 案 案 案"},{"start":159.224,"end":188.212,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件提出的扁平式的沒有辦法去落實權限跟責任這一點也請我們實際的討論的時候也請你們的看法提供給本席好那也順便資料給本席那最後一個議題就是說總統說台灣要這個走出去世界要走進來也就是用運動外交的網絡這一點是非常非常的重要而且可以幫助我們台灣非常重要而且鼓勵我們體育呢"},{"start":188.792,"end":189.753,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案件事項案件事項案件事項"},{"start":211.289,"end":211.89,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 。"},{"start":228.101,"end":256.93,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案。這是不是容一個政書長?報告委員其實我們陸續也在進行當然包括我們的選手能夠出國去進行一個授訓或者是協助我們邦交國或者是我們跟國外海外的僑胞之間或者是我們一些邦交國的部分的一個運動的一個往來還有我們幫助一些我們的邦交的國家進行教練培訓選手的培訓等等都是我們目前還沒有做但是我們接下來應該會去進行的部分。"},{"start":257.29,"end":258.31,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1039,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時27分）謝謝主席，麻煩邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。運動已經成為國人生活很重要的一部分，因此我們努力的來推動……"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們大家一起，我們的目標是拚明年8月份要掛牌上路是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們也有這個信心一定要達陣成功。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們知道全民運動、健全運動產業發展及培育體育人才都非常重要，在這三大元素當中，本席要請教部長，也就是運動部成立之後，本席希望它不是只有升格，而是要納入全新的想法及思維來推動全民運動，所以本席想聽聽部長的想法，你認為要怎麼樣協助運動環境的升級？請作說明。"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的關心跟支持，確實怎麼樣有全民更友善的運動環境，這就是運動部第一個要考量的，因為當全民能夠維持定期、有效的運動時，身體就會健康，我們其實也希望……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是常態性的嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：是常態性的運動，這時候他就能夠有更好的健康身心，我相信不僅是對家庭、對工作，對許多的發展都是正面的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們的目標是共同一致的，在此勉勵一定要落實。我們看到1部1署3中心，在這樣的情況之下，有諮詢委員在諮詢小組裡頭提到，我們現在所規劃的只是一個扁平性的組織，這種類別相對的容易造成責任跟權限不明確，而部外單位也僅有一個行政法人，在這樣的情況之下，沒有其他的附屬組織，所以比較不利於整個組織的發展。本席非常不希望最後就只是一個較大的體育署，而不是真正的運動部的成立，就這一點，我要請部長特別注意，扁平式的組織沒有辦法落實權限跟責任，這一點我們實際在討論的時候，也請將你們的看法提供給本席。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，謝謝委員提醒。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，那也順便把書面資料給本席。","最後一個議題就是總統說「臺灣走出去，世界走進來」，也就是用運動外交的網絡，這一點非常非常的重要，而且可以幫助臺灣，這真的非常重要。不僅可以鼓勵我們的運動人才跟團體參與整個國際組織，同時也爭取國際賽事在臺灣舉辦，我想這個是非常的重要。所以本席要請教部長，針對運用我們整個運動外交的工作，你實際上有哪些具體的計畫？未來運動部要如何呼應我們社會的需求？尤其運動外交網絡這一點是非常的nice，所以請教部長您的方向呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：是不是容我請鄭署長來說明？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實我們陸續也在進行，當然包括我們的選手能夠出國去受訓，或者是協助我們的邦交國，或者是我們跟海外僑胞之間，或者是我們與一些邦交國的運動往來，還有幫助一些我們的邦交國家進行教練的培訓、選手的培訓等等，這些都是我們目前還沒有做，但是我們接下來應該會去進行的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，關於你們預計這一部分要怎麼做，請部長把書面資料給本席，我覺得運動外交網絡非常重要，我們一起加油，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：好，謝謝委員支持。"],["主席：謝謝部長，謝謝楊委員，請部長再將書面資料提供給楊委員。","接下來有請吳召委宗憲發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156826","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156826","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678f01d8412748310d706c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be458456231790284f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"12:20:34 - 12:25:21","影片長度":"00:04:47","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:20:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:21+08:00","duration":287,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.52409375,"end":5.7009687499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.85284375,"end":6.7134687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.007843750000003,"end":14.273468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.594093750000003,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.59784375,"end":27.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.457218750000003,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.21221875,"end":28.937843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.39346875,"end":55.212218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.56659375,"end":95.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.69096875000001,"end":122.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.59409375000001,"end":148.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.13846875000002,"end":161.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.41909375,"end":172.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.70409375,"end":204.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.35346875000002,"end":215.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.25471875000002,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.30846875,"end":234.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.34034375000002,"end":247.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.57034375,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.64534375000002,"end":254.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.06284375,"end":286.82159375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.69,"end":6.492,"text":"主席好,麻煩黃部長。請黃部長。好,部長午安。那今天想質詢問數法部是因為對於我在9月的時候總質詢就有提過的那個兒少網路問題。那下一頁。"},{"start":29.75,"end":56.221,"text":"打蠟專法上路後賦予網路廣告平臺業者防詐的義務為了明確哪些平臺要納管義務我們看到9月16日的時候蘇阿部已經公告了即日生效的一定規模的網路廣告平臺計算基準來明定如果符合有刊登詐騙廣告的風險我國每個月的獨立訪客的"},{"start":56.681,"end":58.583,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":77.1,"end":81.243,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":96.681,"end":97.141,"text":"委員：林月琴委員"},{"start":124.668,"end":128.009,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":141.673,"end":141.913,"text":"議員﹚林月琴"},{"start":163.169,"end":172.174,"text":"議員你也說你們是這些平台的管理單位所以想問一下數位發展部到底對這些網路平台要如何進行管理"},{"start":174.738,"end":204.117,"text":"報告委員就是沒有做那個打詐罰讓我們能夠對這4個平台這個4個平台主要是網路廣告平台但是我們有個機制這個重點是那個機制存在就是說我們有一個機制能夠要求他們下架那當然這個下架的一開始是以詐騙為主就是說詐騙訊息但是如果有一些剛剛講這個兒少如果這個兒少如果是比如說衛福部落發現哪些東西有問題我們可以協助去處理這些下架但是判斷這個東西內容是不是有兒少問題還是需要"},{"start":204.377,"end":232.524,"text":"而常常境外的甚至平臺維護部大也很困難所以我也希望所以那天9月27號總諮詢的時候院長就已經同意因為網路安全現在是世界各國最大的隱憂對我們下一代影響非常的深厚我們看下一屆澳洲的總理就已經宣布要立法禁止16歲以下孩童使用的社群媒體為什麼要這樣立法也是為了保護下一代因為"},{"start":233.223,"end":251.949,"text":"我剛剛提過他們對孩子身心健康事實上是影響巨大在下一頁所以我最後想問的就目前對數發部明年的預算我們可以看到智慧防詐跟數位信任應用發展計畫的經費跟前一年相比的話"},{"start":253.709,"end":253.949,"text":"主席"},{"start":268.926,"end":286.204,"text":"為什麼明年的預算還是沒有去考慮那院長也同意要一併來做所以也希望你們速發部針對這一塊因為當做是要人力來做我相信邊的預算也是人力我希望你們把這個納入否則的話這預算我會好好的看管以上謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":862,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（12時20分）主席好，麻煩黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["林委員月琴：部長午安。今天想質詢數發部，因為我在9月總質詢就有提過兒少網路的問題，打詐專法上路後，賦予我們網路廣告平臺業者的防詐義務，為了明確哪些平臺要被納管，我們看到9月16日的時候，數發部已經公告了一定規模之網路廣告平臺計算基準，並自即日生效。裡面明定了，如果符合平臺被利用於刊登詐騙廣告之風險，以及我國每月獨立訪客人數大於我國人口總數5%這兩項定義，就要被納管，而我們的網路廣告平臺，包括Google、Meta跟LINE都入列了。","可是我們再看到，9月27號我在質詢的時候，就已經跟院長提出來，國外已經開始管理平臺，像平臺的這些東西，因為現在孩子都活在網路世界裡，平臺放的內容對他們來講可能會有影響，像我們這方面的自殺率是第二名；自殺又跟我們的性影像外洩，跟網路遊戲成癮，跟我們的網路霸凌，有極大的相關性。所以在這樣的狀況底下，美國在7月的時候就已經通過了防止成癮性內容剝削兒童法，第一個，規範演算法避免成癮；第二個，避免深夜推播的內容進而影響睡眠；第三個，家長在保護隱私下，可限制使用網路時間長度跟明定罰鍰。","英國在去年10月也通過了網路安全法，規範業者一定要履行的職責；還有定義新型態的網路犯罪；還有要求業者要及時刪除，如果對孩子有妨礙的話；還有明定罰則。9月27號我在總質詢的時候，對於這一部分，院長那時候回應我的，我認為我們是有共識的，因為院長當時回應我說，打詐新法會把這些管理都納入，因為我們的數發部對平臺業者有比較強而有力的拘束力；之前在委員會我也有跟數發部提到，部長也說你們是這些平臺的管理單位，所以想問一下，數發部對這些網路平臺到底要如何進行管理？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，沒有錯，打詐法讓我們能夠對這四個平臺，而這四個平臺主要是網路廣告平臺，但是我們有個機制，這個機制的重點就是，我們有一個機制能夠要求他們下架，但這個下架一開始是以詐騙訊息為主，但是如果有一些像剛剛講的兒少，比如說，衛福部如果發現哪些東西有問題，我們可以協助處理讓這些相關的東西下架，但是判斷這個東西的內容是不是有所謂兒少問題，還是需要部會……"],["林委員月琴：可是常常都是境外的，衛福部大概也很困難判斷，9月27號那天總質詢的時候，院長就已經同意，因為網路安全現在是世界各國最大的隱憂，對我們下一代影響非常的深。澳洲的總理已經宣布將立法，禁止16歲以下孩童使用社群媒體，為什麼要這樣立法？也是為了保護下一代，因為我剛剛提過，他們對孩子身心健康事實上是影響巨大的。","我最後想問的是，對於數發部明年的預算，我們可以看到，智慧防詐與數位信任應用發展計畫的經費跟前一年相比的話，從我9月質詢到現在，10月、11月本來要審預算，現在接下來終於要審預算了，所以我也想問數發部，對於網路平臺，你怎麼做會有拘束力？因為之前我有質詢，所以我在想，為什麼你們明年的預算還是沒有去考慮呢？之前院長也同意要一併來做，所以希望你們數發部針對這一塊，因為大家做事需要人力來做，我相信你編的預算也是為了人力，所以我希望你們能把這個納入，否則的話，這預算我將會好好的看管。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員。接下來邀請麥玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156825","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156825","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d78e474ee6640bad06c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be4318f82bdde02a7a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"12:13:27 - 12:20:09","影片長度":"00:06:42","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:27+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:20:09+08:00","duration":402,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":6.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.61221875,"end":7.658468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.704093750000002,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.957218750000003,"end":17.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.20534375,"end":19.454093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.96034375,"end":26.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.13221875,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.629718750000002,"end":29.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.66346875,"end":29.933468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.933468750000003,"end":39.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.950343750000002,"end":30.051593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.81784375,"end":42.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.38721875,"end":44.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.37846875,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":58.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.94159375,"end":60.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.135343750000004,"end":73.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.97721875,"end":75.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.56346875,"end":77.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.55471875,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.39409375000001,"end":80.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.99721875,"end":82.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.51596875,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.14846875,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.40096875,"end":91.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.18534375,"end":95.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.93159375,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.23909375000001,"end":100.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":111.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.40159375,"end":113.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.19034375000001,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.57721875000001,"end":126.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.43721875000001,"end":132.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.41096875,"end":135.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.39784375000002,"end":141.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.01721875,"end":142.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.13096875000002,"end":145.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.64534375,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.36659375000002,"end":148.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.35784375,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.84221875,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.77346875,"end":190.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.24159375000002,"end":203.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.77971875,"end":233.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.53034375000001,"end":240.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.17471875,"end":242.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.52471875,"end":260.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.68221875,"end":290.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.24284375,"end":297.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.55409375,"end":316.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.63971875000004,"end":335.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.65846875,"end":331.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.62409375000004,"end":401.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.79534375000003,"end":374.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.82909375,"end":401.74034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.38,"end":5.56,"text":"吳春城議員"},{"start":18.877,"end":37.508,"text":"要來恭喜這個明天我們有一個壯士代董資樂園的開幕是明天喔?14號開幕所以這是一個首創壯士代的AI那剛才呢我們這個黃國昌總召"},{"start":41.205,"end":42.547,"text":"委員．吳春城委員"},{"start":61.215,"end":87.79,"text":"其實有很多需要改革的地方需要改革的地方我自己在推動的一個過程當中部長都很認同但是往下推都很困難往下推所以就像剛才所提到了樂齡好幫手我覺得大家都在虛晃一招我就很懷疑其實裡面"},{"start":89.451,"end":111.074,"text":"大家欺上瞞下做表面功夫我們的政府機構處處充滿這種問題很多部會很理想性的東西然後講了哇那部長來了大家談的溝通都很感動都很怎麼樣但是你真的推到推下去以後都自愛難行"},{"start":112.475,"end":132.46,"text":"都自愛難行但是呢大撒幣大花錢就像剛才講那幾個這個什麼樂齡好幫手那一種那麼多的活動花了那麼多錢點滴率都在20個以下然後難道沒有看到嗎都看到已經推行這麼久了然後也沒有改善"},{"start":134.177,"end":160.757,"text":"那像這種問題啦像這種問題那個我覺得真的是要大力的大力的改革久了久了這個很多很多底下烏煙瘴氣的事情可能很多好我先不談這個事情啦但是總是要一個好的開始像這個我們諮詢業"},{"start":163.66,"end":188.08,"text":"諮詢業也辦了那麼久了要有一些創造的新意嘛所以呢這個是我跟部長建議的啦我跟部長建議的就是這個現在的年輕人不太參加實體活動啊諮詢業啊怎麼樣創在再創熱潮嘛我就答應我幫你帶一批人來啊什麼帶來就帶壯士帶來"},{"start":191.323,"end":202.42,"text":"那所以這個溝通的方式就叫董資樂園那就要開幕了很多的新創的一些做法"},{"start":203.854,"end":232.73,"text":"OK,所以這裡做個廣告也請大家來參加,直接跳過來這一頁。那想這個問題,的確這個非常就是整個的數位落差,那數碼部會看到就是年齡的數位落差是重點,但是我們現在一時政策都會往這個區域的數位落差去做。那這一個可以看得到嗎?區域的數位落差就兩成嘛。"},{"start":233.61,"end":255.053,"text":"那最高跟最低兩成嘛,零零落差差到五成嘛那這高領社會這個問題會更嚴重那所以呢接下來因為我的時間所以呢好現在呢辦這次諮詢的董之樂園那我也非常努力在帶動"},{"start":258.136,"end":281.157,"text":"但是我覺得我真的很努力但是呢事實上不會我覺得當然都做出一個做出一個場面但是事實上事實上會再更積極不過第一次試辦沒有給你們太多壓力所以呢希望活動辦完以後因為只有4天的活動不是大拜拜這樣這個活動之後"},{"start":283.559,"end":285.9,"text":"請問部長,好好地檢討、好好地觀察這次的活動的那個過程當中,那是不是這個"},{"start":297.619,"end":297.639,"text":"請問部長"},{"start":318.34,"end":334.1,"text":"報告委員我想在這次這個活動結束之後我們再看看怎麼樣配合剛剛其實剛剛黃委員講確實我們有一些經費可以對這個不管是壯世代或高齡有一些幫助那怎麼讓幫助更有效我想我們再來檢討"},{"start":337.363,"end":352.853,"text":"我要跟部長講昨天我們院長卓院長也宣誓了因為昨天召開的社福委員會行政院社福委員會要重視壯士在積極的參與社會積極參與社會數位是非常重要的部分"},{"start":358.196,"end":373.531,"text":"所以最後這一個是不是可以要求這個速發部承諾把縮短年齡的數位落差的具體措施在3個月之內提出一份詳盡的計畫3個月的時間黃國昌都給一個禮拜我給3個月"},{"start":378.176,"end":401.159,"text":"所以這次可以講的就是說我不是要為難但是如果再不再是虛晃一朝落實的話那真的要翻臉了啦真的就翻臉就是說講了講了講了但是我覺得我要給你支持但是你要有決心真的好好的推動下面的改革好的謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":850,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（12時13分）請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：部長好。首先要恭喜，明天11月14日是「壯世代懂資樂園」開幕日，這是壯世代AI的首創，剛才黃國昌總召所提都是讓人滿心痛的事情，我想部長是很有理想性的，但是你到了數發部之後，應該會看到其實有很多需要改革的地方，我自己在推動的一個過程當中，部長都很認同，但是往下推都很困難，就像剛才提到的「樂齡好幫手」，我覺得大家都在虛晃一招，我很懷疑其實在這裡面大家都欺上瞞下，做表面功夫，我們的政府機構處處充滿這種問題，很多部會提出很理想性的東西，部長來了、大家談了，溝通時都很感動，都很怎麼樣，但是當真的推下去以後都窒礙難行，但是大撒幣、大花錢，像剛才講的那幾個什麼「樂齡好幫手」那麼多的活動，花了那麼多錢，點閱率卻都在20個以下，難道你們沒有看到嗎？都有看到，已經推行這麼久了，然後也沒有改善。像這種問題，我覺得真的是要大力的改革，時間久了，底下烏煙瘴氣的事情可能很多。我先不談這個事情，但是總是要一個好的開始，比如我們的資訊月，已經辦了那麼久了，要有一些創造的新意嘛！所以我跟部長提出一個建議，就是現在的年輕人不太參加實體活動，為讓資訊月再創熱潮，我就答應幫你帶幾批人來，帶什麼人呢？就是帶壯世代來，這個溝通的方式就叫「懂資樂園」，明天就要開幕了，有很多新創的一些作法。所以在這裡做個廣告，請大家來參加。","接下來這個是有關數位落差的問題，數發部有看到就是年齡的數位落差是重點，但是我們現在的政策都偏向區域的數位落差，可是區域的數位落差最高跟最低差兩成，年齡落差卻差到五成，高齡社會的這個問題會更嚴重，所以現在辦這次懂資樂園，我也非常努力在帶動，部會當然也都做出一個場面，但是我覺得可以再更積極，不過這是第一次試辦，沒有給你們太多壓力，希望活動辦完以後，因為只有4天的活動，不是大拜拜，在這樣的活動之後，我就要請部長好好的檢討，好好的觀察這次活動的過程，看看是不是可以有一些減少年齡落差的具體作法，要認真去做，因為這個已經談了很多，可是大家都做表面工夫。請問部長是不是能夠承諾，明年資訊月能夠有10%的壯世代群眾來參加？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我想在這次這個活動結束之後我們再看看怎麼樣配合，誠如剛剛黃委員所講，確實我們有一些經費可以對不管是壯世代或高齡有一些幫助，至於怎麼讓幫助更有效，我想我們再來檢討。"],["吳委員春城：OK！我要跟部長講，我們卓院長也在昨天召開的行政院社福委員會宣示了要重視壯世代，積極的參與社會，那要積極參與社會，數位是非常重要的部分，所以我最後要求數發部承諾，針對縮短年齡數位落差的具體措施在3個月之內提出一份詳盡的結果，黃國昌都給一個禮拜，我給3個月，所以可見我不是要為難你們，但是如果再不做，再次虛晃一招不落實的話，那真的要翻臉了啦！就只是講了、講了、講了而已，總之，我覺得我要給你支持，但是你要有決心，真的好好去推動下面的改革。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["吳委員春城：好的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳春城委員。接下來邀請徐欣瑩委員發言，徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在現場。","接下來邀請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156824","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156824","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783a4573b4d49d3ca806c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be5a549a2cf34375e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:04:44 - 12:13:06","影片長度":"00:08:22","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:04:44+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:06+08:00","duration":502,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.4772187500000005,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.004093750000003,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.797218750000003,"end":11.809718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.73721875,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.62284375,"end":22.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.453468750000003,"end":27.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.02659375,"end":30.304718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.55784375,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.69284375,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.70971875,"end":30.777218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.71784375,"end":33.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.40971875,"end":34.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.64159375,"end":38.134718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.26534375,"end":40.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.42534375,"end":45.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.28534375,"end":47.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.51284375,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.09909375,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.486593750000004,"end":55.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.275343750000005,"end":57.000968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.55784375,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.69221875,"end":66.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.90659375,"end":70.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.69909375,"end":74.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.90534375,"end":75.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.86721875,"end":81.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.04346875,"end":82.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.34284375,"end":83.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.38909375,"end":85.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.49846875,"end":92.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.33284375000001,"end":95.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.67846875000001,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.30659375,"end":101.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.49596875,"end":104.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.68971875000001,"end":105.95534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.14096875000001,"end":106.56284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.13659375,"end":107.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.57534375,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.60909375,"end":107.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.94659375,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.13221875,"end":109.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.07721875,"end":109.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.95034375,"end":111.23721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.99659375,"end":116.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.98721875000001,"end":120.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.42971875,"end":125.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.22659375,"end":129.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.34846875,"end":128.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.04846875,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.92596875,"end":131.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.94284375,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.07284375,"end":139.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.31284375,"end":141.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.74721875,"end":146.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.75471875000002,"end":149.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.15096875,"end":154.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.64846875,"end":156.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.79971875,"end":178.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.63159375,"end":179.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.64846875,"end":183.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.78284375,"end":184.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.39034375,"end":186.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.41096875000002,"end":189.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.46971875,"end":191.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.39346875,"end":193.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.47346875000002,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.96534375000002,"end":207.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.41596875000002,"end":212.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.74034375000002,"end":224.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.71909375,"end":215.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.12721875000003,"end":225.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.78909375,"end":224.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.89034375000003,"end":224.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.02534375000002,"end":225.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.27846875,"end":229.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.39596875,"end":230.79659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.33221875,"end":233.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.27284375000002,"end":236.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.38221875000002,"end":237.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.05284375000002,"end":239.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.21284375000002,"end":241.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.64284375000003,"end":245.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.30471875,"end":247.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.94159375,"end":249.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.92846875,"end":252.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.97034375,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.07971875,"end":256.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.93159375,"end":258.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.75846875,"end":260.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.28971875,"end":263.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.73659375,"end":265.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.64346875,"end":266.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.82034375,"end":269.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.30096875000004,"end":272.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.03034375000004,"end":275.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.20284375,"end":278.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.21096875,"end":280.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.50534375,"end":286.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.12534375,"end":289.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.10346875,"end":293.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.97221875,"end":295.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.96784375000004,"end":295.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.76096875,"end":298.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.27534375000005,"end":301.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.34659375,"end":302.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.54471875,"end":304.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.21534375000005,"end":306.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.49346875000003,"end":308.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.13034375,"end":309.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.31159375000004,"end":310.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.96971875,"end":316.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.78721875,"end":319.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.76159375000003,"end":321.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.44909375000003,"end":323.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.08159375,"end":325.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.49471875,"end":327.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.94159375000004,"end":333.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.90284375000005,"end":336.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.37909375000004,"end":338.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.33659375,"end":343.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.79159375,"end":345.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.27221875000004,"end":347.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.89221875000004,"end":349.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.79471875,"end":356.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.97096875,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.10596875000005,"end":360.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.61159375,"end":362.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.31596875,"end":365.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.55596875000003,"end":368.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.56409375000004,"end":371.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.31034375,"end":373.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.82471875000005,"end":376.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.23784375,"end":379.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.08971875000003,"end":381.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.74346875000003,"end":384.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.59534375000004,"end":386.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.62034375,"end":387.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.15596875,"end":389.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.62409375000004,"end":390.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.78846875000005,"end":394.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.90159375,"end":396.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.06159375000004,"end":399.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.40721875,"end":401.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.49534375,"end":406.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.08971875000003,"end":409.06409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.46909375,"end":411.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.57846875,"end":416.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.12596875,"end":423.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.84659375,"end":428.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.01034375,"end":432.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.60034375000004,"end":437.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.93659375000004,"end":444.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.17659375000005,"end":447.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.80909375000005,"end":449.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.25596875,"end":452.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.61846875000003,"end":456.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.87096875000003,"end":459.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.26284375,"end":461.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.16096875000005,"end":470.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.74221875,"end":471.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.85596875000005,"end":473.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.54346875000005,"end":475.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.29846875000004,"end":476.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.98596875000004,"end":480.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.45784375000005,"end":485.15346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.54159375,"end":489.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.28346875000005,"end":493.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.81034375,"end":495.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.45971875000004,"end":497.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.52284375000005,"end":498.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.78846875000005,"end":501.06659375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.037,"end":10.844,"text":"謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請黃部長我要"},{"start":19.819,"end":44.628,"text":"部長,數發部從2022年8月風光皆白到現在我想社會上面有很多評價講得比較直接一點是很多批評我相信部長都有聽到當然國人會關心的事情是說當副發部今年的預算跟明年你們現在編起來的預算加上前瞻的預算"},{"start":46.343,"end":70.486,"text":"大概拿了283億兩千多萬從各個部會來講這個預算的金額絕對不能算低所以大家就很關心速發部到底做了什麼樣子的事情我就看整個速發部在預算的編列上或者是在相關經費的使用上有一些事情我覺得很困惑"},{"start":72.038,"end":86.848,"text":"控控是說你們有很多計畫例如說高齡科技產業數位赴能推動銀髮四代連結計畫今年的預算1億7750萬明年的預算1億2240萬總計2億9990萬這個計畫的主持人是誰您知道嗎?這個計畫的主持人是誰您知道嗎?"},{"start":103.334,"end":124.821,"text":"我們的主秘他現在還是主秘嗎?是他現在還是主秘?是那你們公務員去編這個計畫主要是目的要在計畫裡面養人嗎?因為我看人事費裡面五千多萬人事費五千多萬這個是這個計畫的內容你們有沒有看過?用計畫在養人"},{"start":132.57,"end":146,"text":"因為你齁如果說齁今天這是國科會的計畫學校的單位教授研究計畫要帶學生要養專業的助理所以我可以理解可是怎麼數發部會開始搞這個東西啊部長這個狀況你知不知道"},{"start":151.64,"end":178.455,"text":"國標單位是公研院等一下等一下等一下先先停一下現在到底誰是部長那個報告報告委員這個我們很多東西是應該這樣講就是說我們在研發裡面有有上中下我們出發部主要是做中下包括推動所以像這個銀髮族這個我們會跟比如說跟公研合作那公研的公研就是就是拿一些研究成果然後至於在產業裡面去補助產業去應用去推動會會在我們這裡處理"},{"start":179.673,"end":204.878,"text":"不是啊 這個跟產業沒關係啊計畫組成就你們組密啊對 那是那個然後下面養了一堆人啊這個東西在做什麼你知不知道銀髮世代的連結對對對 這個東西在做什麼你知不知道對高齡的現在的一個問題我們希望能夠讓這個他們能夠有這個能夠用數位用這個剛講的這些數位的技術能夠做一些在生活上的改善你覺得這個計畫推動到現在成效如何"},{"start":209.431,"end":230.514,"text":"部長覺得成效如何還是你不是很了解知道就知道不知道就不知道你不是很了解請你回去了解請你回去了解為什麼請部長回去了解花了幾億搞這個東西啊來我給部長看一下"},{"start":232.346,"end":232.846,"text":"這個的確偏低啦"},{"start":261.323,"end":272.186,"text":"用偏低兩個字可以形容喔我送部長四個字阿叫慘不忍睹阿書發部很有錢阿幾億的計畫搞這種東西出來阿幫了什麼銀髮族阿用銀髮用勒林用這些fancy的字說服立法委員給你們預算搞這個東西出來"},{"start":292.448,"end":316.588,"text":"爛的不得了啊下面一樣啊18次19次16次喂老天啊這個到底在幹嘛部長回去了解一個禮拜之內書面報告說明這是怎麼回事因為這件事情如果沒有說明我在這邊先把話講白了"},{"start":318.067,"end":344.744,"text":"這個不是只有一年喔今年還繼續編喔我一定砍到聖靈園沒有必要執行下去嘛我執行這個要幹嘛我們都支持壯世代啊支持銀髮啊支持樂齡啊但支持的方法絕對不是錢亂花啊這在搞什麼東西啊好一個禮拜我們給委員一個報告再看一下審查委員怎麼講的"},{"start":346.325,"end":373.265,"text":"各計畫的規劃缺乏創新性高齡學習或社交課程在現有的長青學院已經非常普遍高齡數位學習教材開發的數量也很多結果呢結果我們的速發部錢太多啊立法院給的錢啊不花不行啊隨便亂花效果到底在哪裡"},{"start":375.341,"end":401.63,"text":"連審查委員都看不下去啊事情還不是只有這樣來再看一下另外一個計畫有一個數位前瞻應用發展計畫這名字又取得很好啦有數位啊有前瞻啊來關鍵成果跟績效指標我看每一年度的奇怪內容幾乎都重複啊內容幾乎都重複啊"},{"start":403.527,"end":432.363,"text":"部長我相信啊如果你自己當審查委員你看了可能都會皺眉頭啊這到底是在搞什麼東西啊來我們再繼續往下看審查委員一樣啊砲聲隆隆啊三項目標各自獨立論述沒有共同的終點目標這個目標也明確說明本計畫以幕僚作業需求為主整體計畫包括眾多不明確的開發需求"},{"start":433.632,"end":434.733,"text":"我最後給我最後"},{"start":464.215,"end":478.827,"text":"次世代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬在幹嘛今天我質詢的時候我提了三個東西出來請部長回去了解請部長回去了解一個禮拜之內一個禮拜之內"},{"start":481.799,"end":500.032,"text":"說清楚執行到現在你個人滿不滿意納稅的錢還要不要這樣花一個禮拜之內的書面回答如果我看了沒有辦法說服的話我醜話講在前面今年度相關的預算我一定砍到剩領元謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":820,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時5分）謝謝主席！是不是可以麻煩有請黃部長？"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。數發部從2022年8月風光揭牌到現在，我想社會上面有很多評價，講得比較直接一點是有很多批評，我相信部長都有聽到。國人會關心的事情是當數發部今年的預算跟明年你們現在編起來的預算再加上前瞻的預算，大概拿了兩百八十三億兩千多萬元，從各個部會來講，這個預算的金額絕對不能算低，所以大家就會很關心數發部到底做了什麼樣子的事情。我看了整個數發部預算的編列或者是在相關經費的使用，有一些事情我覺得很困惑。困惑的是你們有很多計畫，譬如說高齡科技產業數位賦能推動銀髮世代連結計畫，今年的預算編了1億7,750萬元、明年的預算編了1億2,240萬元，總計2億9,990萬元，這個計畫的主持人是誰，您知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：請數產署來說明。"],["黃委員國昌：這個計畫的主持人是誰，您知道嗎？"],["林代理署長俊秀：是我們的主秘。"],["黃委員國昌：他現在還是主秘嗎？"],["林代理署長俊秀：是。"],["黃委員國昌：你們公務員去編這個計畫主要目的是在計畫裡面養人嗎？因為我看人事費裡面就有五千多萬元。"],["林代理署長俊秀：這個是招標的金額。"],["黃委員國昌：你們有沒有看過這個計畫的內容？這是用計畫在養人，因為如果這是國科會的計畫、學校的單位教授研究計畫，要帶學生、要養專任的助理，我可以理解，可是怎麼數發部會開始搞這個東西？部長，這個狀況你知不知道？"],["李代理署長俊秀：得標單位是工研院。"],["黃委員國昌：等一下，先停一下。現在到底誰是部長？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，應該這樣講，就是說我們在研發裡面有上中下階段，我們數發部主要是做中下階段，包括推動，所以像銀髮族這個計畫我們會跟比如工研院合作，工研院就是拿一些研究成果，至於在產業裡面去補助、去應用、去推動會在我們這裡處理。"],["黃委員國昌：不是啊！這個跟產業沒關係啊！計畫主持人就是你們的主秘，然後下面養了一堆人啊！這個東西在做什麼你知不知道？"],["黃部長彥男：銀髮世代的連結。"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個東西在做什麼你知不知道？"],["黃部長彥男：對高齡現在面臨的問題，我們希望讓他們能夠用剛剛講的這些數位技術在生活上做一些改善。"],["黃委員國昌：你覺得這個計畫推動到現在成效如何？部長覺得成效如何？還是你不是很瞭解？知道就知道，不知道就不知道。"],["黃部長彥男：這個計畫在我上任之前已經推了一年半，我再回去瞭解，這個我不是很瞭解。"],["黃委員國昌：你不是很瞭解，請你回去瞭解。我為什麼請部長回去瞭解？花了幾億搞這個東西啊！我給部長看一下，「樂齡好幫手」這個平台說是要幫助我們銀髮族數位連結、參加各種活動，請部長你看一下，丟了這麼多錢下去，結果是點擊18次、點擊9次、點擊15次，這樣的數字，部長，我看了臉都綠了啦！部長你看了覺得呢？"],["黃部長彥男：這個的確偏低。"],["黃委員國昌：用「偏低」兩個字可以形容喔？我送部長四個字，叫「慘不忍睹」！數發部很有錢吶！幾億的計畫搞這種東西出來啊！幫了什麼銀髮族啊？用銀髮、樂齡這些fancy的字說服立法委員給你們預算，搞這個東西出來，爛得不得了啊！下一張也是一樣，18次、19次、16次，我的老天啊！這個到底在幹嘛？部長，回去瞭解，一個禮拜之內交書面報告，說明這是怎麼回事。"],["黃部長彥男：說明我們下次補送。"],["黃委員國昌：因為這件事情如果沒有說明，我在這邊先把話講白了，這個不是只有一年喔，今年還繼續編喔，我一定砍到剩0元。沒有必要執行下去嘛！執行這個要幹嘛？我們都支持壯世代啊！支持銀髮啊！支持樂齡啊！但支持的方法絕對不是錢亂花，這在搞什麼東西啊！"],["黃部長彥男：一個禮拜我們給委員那個報告。"],["黃委員國昌：再看一下審查委員怎麼講的，他們說的是「各計畫的規劃，缺乏創新性，高齡學習或社交課程在現有的長青學苑已經非常普遍，高齡數位學習教材開發的數量也相當多」，結果我們的數發部錢太多，立法院給的錢不花不行，隨便亂花，效果到底在哪裡？連審查委員都看不下去啊！事情還不是只有這樣，再看一下另外一個「數位前瞻應用發展計畫」，計畫名稱都取得很好啦，有數位啊，有前瞻啊，但我看了每一年度的關鍵成果跟績效指標的內容，奇怪的是幾乎都重複啊！內容幾乎都重複啊！部長，我相信如果你自己當審查委員，你看了可能都會皺眉頭，這到底是在搞什麼東西啊！我們再繼續往下看，審查委員一樣砲聲隆隆，認為三項目標各自獨立論述，沒有共同的終點目標，且這個目標也明確說明本計畫以幕僚作業需求為主，整體計畫包裹眾多不明確的開發需求，空泛包山包海，沒有實質對應的產出，這如果是任何一家公司的負責人，看到這樣子的內容會皺眉頭啊，這個錢要丟下去嗎？錢丟到水裡還蹦一聲，但這個錢丟下去可能連聲音都沒有啊！再往後看喔，主席站起來了，不好意思，再給我一點時間。我最後要提的是「次世代行動創新應用賦能發展計畫」，編了兩年2億1,300萬元在幹嘛？今天我質詢提了三個東西出來，請部長回去瞭解，一個禮拜之內說清楚，執行到現在你個人滿不滿意？納稅人的錢還要不要這樣花？一個禮拜之內給的書面回答如果沒有辦法說服我的話，我醜話講在前面，今年度相關的預算我一定砍到剩0元。謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。","接下來邀請林德福委員，林德福委員、林德福委員、林德福委員不在現場。","接下來邀請吳春城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156823","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156823","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783634b3f72db24ec506c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be07ad72fc102174e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:57:23 - 12:04:31","影片長度":"00:07:08","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:57:23+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:04:31+08:00","duration":428,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.2034687500000003,"end":4.384718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.992218750000001,"end":6.2915937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.578468750000001,"end":7.388468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.62409375,"end":12.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.56909375,"end":13.193468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.68284375,"end":15.589718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.39971875,"end":19.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.67346875,"end":20.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":23.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.453468750000003,"end":24.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.242218750000003,"end":26.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.36846875,"end":27.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.106593750000002,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.75596875,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.28721875,"end":35.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.82721875,"end":36.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.53159375,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.180968750000005,"end":40.547843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.80096875,"end":41.627843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.914718750000006,"end":42.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.42096875,"end":42.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.70784375,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.71596875,"end":45.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.829718750000005,"end":46.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.057218750000004,"end":50.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.55034375,"end":52.157843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":55.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.752218750000004,"end":57.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.40159375,"end":59.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.257843750000006,"end":62.14784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.35034375,"end":63.83534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.29096875,"end":65.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.72096875,"end":67.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.06659375000001,"end":69.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.19721875,"end":70.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.15909375000001,"end":72.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.96471875,"end":73.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.17971875,"end":75.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.29346875,"end":76.45784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.86284375000001,"end":77.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.71909375,"end":79.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.52909375,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.95909375000001,"end":83.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.49471875,"end":84.67596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.21596875,"end":87.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.03409375000001,"end":90.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.95346875,"end":94.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.66596875,"end":96.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.66534375,"end":99.39096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.33596875,"end":100.87596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.24721875,"end":103.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.50409375000001,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.85409375,"end":107.00159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.15346875,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.36346875000001,"end":114.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.52346875,"end":115.86096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.90721875000001,"end":120.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.70409375000001,"end":122.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.88096875000001,"end":126.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.77471875,"end":131.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.14971875,"end":131.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.94284375,"end":134.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.08596875,"end":136.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.76909375,"end":146.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.24034375000002,"end":145.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.65784375,"end":148.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.75034375,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.03284375,"end":154.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.94346875000002,"end":156.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.90096875,"end":159.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.21284375000002,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.22971875000002,"end":159.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.64284375,"end":163.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":165.64221875,"end":175.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.40034375000002,"end":175.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.41284375,"end":179.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.83409375000002,"end":184.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.23846875,"end":192.18659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.10659375,"end":199.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.47659375,"end":200.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.87721875000003,"end":204.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.16346875000002,"end":206.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.71596875,"end":207.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.69471875000002,"end":212.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.33096875,"end":213.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.08596875,"end":220.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.92471875,"end":221.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.90346875,"end":221.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.92034375,"end":221.93721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.93721875000003,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.97096875000003,"end":230.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.22284375,"end":235.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.18409375000002,"end":254.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.37284375000002,"end":242.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.82659375000003,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.55596875000003,"end":260.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.35721875,"end":262.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.66909375,"end":263.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.73659375,"end":265.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.77034375,"end":264.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.96409375,"end":267.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.17471875,"end":271.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.35159375,"end":271.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.34721875,"end":273.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.25846875,"end":273.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.09784375000004,"end":274.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.41846875000005,"end":277.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.97909375,"end":278.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.31659375000004,"end":280.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.93221875,"end":286.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.61534375,"end":283.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.97784375000003,"end":286.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.80471875,"end":288.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":288.55971875,"end":294.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.62221875,"end":293.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.72346875,"end":293.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.75721875,"end":294.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.01034375,"end":295.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.42784375,"end":298.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.81971875,"end":300.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.06409375000004,"end":301.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.04284375000003,"end":302.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.03846875,"end":305.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.87346875000003,"end":307.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.37096875000003,"end":309.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.99096875000004,"end":311.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.18909375000004,"end":311.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.65721875,"end":314.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.83409375,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.34034375000005,"end":324.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.03096875,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.93784375,"end":331.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.62471875,"end":333.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.86909375000005,"end":337.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.98721875,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.96971875,"end":347.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.55909375000005,"end":353.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.65596875,"end":348.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.63471875000005,"end":348.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.96721875000003,"end":355.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.75159375000004,"end":357.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.72596875000005,"end":362.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.69159375000004,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.15096875,"end":370.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.98159375,"end":372.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.39909375,"end":392.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.99721875,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.92471875,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.68721875,"end":391.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.88534375,"end":391.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.40409375,"end":405.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.47409375,"end":404.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.50784375,"end":404.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.92971875,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.02659375,"end":407.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.27534375000005,"end":411.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.49034375,"end":409.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.48159375,"end":411.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.43909375000004,"end":412.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.45596875,"end":414.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.47284375000004,"end":414.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.97034375000004,"end":422.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.03784375000004,"end":416.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.12534375,"end":422.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.96909375,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.64409375,"end":423.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.66096875000005,"end":424.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.13346875,"end":424.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.31846875,"end":428.43659375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.166,"end":7.129,"text":"謝謝主席有請黃部長請黃部長好 委員好部長你好今天審查預算啊我給他算了一下你這個樹花部啊花錢毫不手軟欸樹花部大概我不知道這預算是不是你編的那個你其實部長以前編的還是你知道"},{"start":32.441,"end":46.394,"text":"委員這個是這個是你編的這個是但是我們各個署跟不是是不是你編的啦你有沒有看啦有看啦有看你可以看喔各位看喔國外旅費"},{"start":48.369,"end":65.307,"text":"蘇巴部平均6.19萬本部8.5萬中央政府平均1.7萬所以旅費就3.54倍平均本部就你蘇巴部4.86倍尾半備用"},{"start":69.15,"end":96.722,"text":"委辦費用委辦給人家平均40%數位產發署等於數月產發署68%委外了中央只有2%所以是3、4倍啊這張圖啊要看你啦部長啊你這個部啊結果呢你要打造儀表板啊"},{"start":98.697,"end":113.862,"text":"一天被騙5億九成都是投資詐騙到現在為止我們政府的單位成立的越多打詐國家隊打詐辦公室成立越多詐騙越多一年就是87億"},{"start":117.177,"end":134.598,"text":"這個東西你要不要回應一下你們為什麼這樣胡亂編啊編成數花部這樣國外旅遊部啊編這樣子啊國外旅費不是就國外旅遊部啊尾半倍啊你們是不是人都不要用了通知委員會就好了人家二十倍三十四倍到底是什麼意思啊"},{"start":136.84,"end":163.647,"text":"我們因為數位發展我們數位經濟本來就會跟國外尤其是資安跟國外有很多互動所以我們在這邊的經費會...阿幾個月出國?沒有就是...幾個月出國?沒有那個...阿就是3.54倍阿平均你們部裡面4.86倍阿我跟你講阿我全部砍喔那個我可以請那個...那個我們...我全部砍喔我告訴你這數法部成為國外旅遊部"},{"start":165.98,"end":175.773,"text":"跟委員報告齁那因為速發部成立之後有非常多的業務包含跟美國或者是歐洲這邊會有很大量的這種玩法你們的成效過去唐鳳當部長呢弄個點面線APP 這樣而已什麼成果也沒有還要講兩個半天"},{"start":184.504,"end":203.859,"text":"是,各位再補充一下,比如說以歐洲地區好了,那歐洲因為我們現在跟英國其實也在做禁賣談判。啊人家都不要出國,你講這個假講話啦,沒有人相信啦,成效也很差。啊人家點名台灣的詐騙,三大機關要負最大責任,數位發布。"},{"start":205.225,"end":209.571,"text":"政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":224.09,"end":233.959,"text":"拜託委員我上任之後在資安的這些工作都有在加強包括集合你沒有回答我啦為什麼委你講出國陸陸登委辦為什麼這麼高啦委辦不用為什麼這麼高"},{"start":236.681,"end":237.781,"text":"為什麼你是人家的3、4倍?為什麼你是人家的20倍?你這個為什麼?"},{"start":266.389,"end":280.031,"text":"為什麼啊 為什麼會這樣子啊 34倍 別人你剛剛講那個理由 別的單位也要啊 也要回給工人院 也要回給工協會 為什麼你們特別多 就代表你們特別懶惰啊"},{"start":280.987,"end":299.755,"text":"你們特別懶惰啊!你們的人就欸欸啊!都放棄!還是你們特別不專業!人家也專業!產業推動我請署長說明一下跟委員報告我要送經濟部來我們在以前在工業局其實委辦會也是因為就是要做產業報告你給我查一下齁你今天你回答我都不滿意了根本都沒有回答我重點齁你給我寫個簡單的報告可以嗎?這個禮拜寫給我3天3天給我齁還我問一下部長"},{"start":308.399,"end":311.663,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":325.987,"end":353.242,"text":"像OneWeb的那個推動跟使用是塑化部在推動啊他們在STARLINK那個馬斯克那個SpaceX要離開台灣有沒有這回事啊這個因為這屬於經濟部的那個產業面我不清楚但是在服務上那個STARLINK我們有試著去跟他好那你給我時間表齁你不管怎麼樣因為我時間到了齁不要花太多時間你回答我"},{"start":354.022,"end":377.612,"text":"我們什麼時候台灣可以見到全面性的低軌道軌心可以取代我們現在的海底電纜否則的話一打仗有什麼問題這個是在國科會那邊在太空中心你告訴我你有參與嗎我們這不是在commercial已經在run的系統我們去想辦法讓他在台灣落地"},{"start":378.092,"end":379.895,"text":"現在都沒有?什麼時候可以?什麼時候?什麼時候可以有6G啊?"},{"start":393.524,"end":397.027,"text":"6G20302030那個標準還沒定現在不是有B5G嗎B5G還在對B5G到6G還有點距離但是6G2030B5G2030有沒有"},{"start":412.501,"end":412.882,"text":"主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":767,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時57分）謝謝主席！有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長你好。今天審查預算，我算了一下，你這個數發部花錢毫不手軟耶！部長，我不知道這預算是不是你編的？是你接部長前編的還是你知道？"],["黃部長彥男：委員，這個是我們各個署……"],["賴委員士葆：是不是你編的啦？你有沒有看？"],["黃部長彥男：有看啦！"],["賴委員士葆：請各位看好喔！國外旅費這一項，數發部平均6.19萬元，本部是8.5萬元，中央政府平均才1.7萬元，所以你們的平均旅費是中央的3.54倍，數發部本部則為4.86倍；委辦費用的部分，人家平均是40%，數位產業署委外卻高達68%，中央只有2%，所以是34倍，這張圖真的教人看不下去啦！部長，你這一個部離離落落，可是結果呢？打詐儀表板顯示一天被騙5億元，九成都是投資詐騙，到現在為止，我們政府的單位成立得愈多、國家打詐隊、打詐辦公室成立得愈多，詐騙愈多，一年就是八十幾億元！你們要不要回應一下為什麼這樣胡亂編，變成數發部國外旅遊部？國外旅費不就是去國外旅遊嘛！至於委辦費，你們是不是都不要用人了，統統委辦就好了？經費是人家的20倍、34倍，到底是怎麼一回事？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，因為數位發展、數位經濟跟資安本來就會跟國外有很多互動，所以我們在這邊的經費……"],["賴委員士葆：真的需要出國？錢都用來出國？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有啦！就是……"],["賴委員士葆：明明就是人家平均的3.54倍啊！本部是4.86倍啊！我跟你講我全部砍喔！我全部砍喔！我告訴你，數發部成為國外旅遊部。"],["黃部長彥男：我可不可以請司長說明？"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員報告，因為數發部成立之後有非常多的業務，包含跟美國或者是歐洲這邊會有很大量的互動……"],["賴委員士葆：你們的成效，過去唐鳳當部長弄了一個「點麵線」app而已，什麼成果也沒有，還在那裡講了半天。"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員再補充一下，比如說歐洲地區，因為我們現在跟英國其實有進行新的談判……"],["賴委員士葆：奇怪！人家都不要出國！你說這些都是白說的啦！沒有人相信啦！成效也很差。人家都點名臺灣的詐騙，三大機關要負最大責任─數發部、金管部、法務部，你們詐騙的事情也做不好，防詐很重要也做不好，資安也做不好，現在人家只要花差不多500塊美金就可以買到臺灣全部的個資，你知道嗎？部長，你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我上任之後，在資安部分剛剛講的這些工作都有在加強，包括稽核……"],["賴委員士葆：你沒有回答我啦，你講了落落長，沒說為什麼出國費用、委辦費用這麼高啦！"],["黃部長彥男：委辦是因為我們有很多計畫是委託給比如工研院、資策會、工協會去執行，包括剛剛講的就是，因為我們發展用AI去做很多數位轉型，這些計畫都需要再做研發，所以……"],["賴委員士葆：你這些理由其他單位都存在，為什麼你的委辦費是人家的34倍？為什麼你的平均數是人家的20倍？為什麼？為什麼會這樣子？你剛剛講的那個理由別的單位也要啊！也要委託給工研院，也要給工協會，為什麼你們特別多？就代表你們特別懶惰啊！你們特別懶惰啊！你們就全都推給AI啊！還是你們特別不專業？"],["黃部長彥男：產業推動部分請署長說明一下。"],["林代理署長俊秀：跟委員報告，我是從經濟部來，以前在工業局，其實委辦費就是要去做產業發展。"],["賴委員士葆：你去查一下喔，你今天的回答我都不滿意，根本都沒有回答到重點，你給我寫個簡單的報告，可以嗎？這個禮拜前要給我，3天給我。","我再問一下部長，你知道Starlink嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：知道。"],["賴委員士葆：臺灣有沒有在發展低軌道衛星？"],["黃部長彥男：臺灣現在是用OneWeb，臺灣現在成兩部分，一部分是既有的系統用英國的OneWeb。"],["賴委員士葆：數發部有沒有角色扮演？"],["黃部長彥男：像OneWeb的推動跟使用是數發部在推動。"],["賴委員士葆：現在SpaceX的Starlink要離開臺灣，有沒有這回事？"],["黃部長彥男：因為這個屬於經濟部的產業面，我不清楚，但是在服務上，那個Starlink我們有試著去跟他談。"],["賴委員士葆：請你給我時間表。因為我發言時間到了，你不用花太多時間回答我，臺灣什麼時候可以見到以全面性的低軌道衛星取代我們現在的海底電纜？否則的話，一打仗或出什麼問題都沒辦法處理。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個是國科會太空中心在處理。"],["賴委員士葆：你剛剛說你有參與啊！"],["黃部長彥男：我們是在Commercial已經在run的系統，我們去想辦法讓它在臺灣落地。"],["賴委員士葆：現在都沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：現在就是OneWeb。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：今年已經通了，OneWeb年底全通，年底在臺灣任何地方、24小時都可以有低軌衛星通訊。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以有6G？"],["黃部長彥男：6G還早，那個標準還沒定，所以要到2030年。"],["賴委員士葆：現在不是有V5G嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：V5G到6G還有點距離。"],["賴委員士葆：V5G什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：V5G也還在研議。"],["賴委員士葆：6G是到2030年，V5G是什麼時候？"],["牛司長信仁：現在還在規劃當中，全世界都在嘗試在做這件事情。"],["賴委員士葆：在6G之前還是6G之後？"],["牛司長信仁：6G之前。"],["黃部長彥男：先有V5G，但是5G現在都還在布建中。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。","接下來邀請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156822","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156822","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678da35dd2dd97897ea370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86bef3c949769055490b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:22:51 - 12:27:07","影片長度":"00:04:16","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:22:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:27:07+08:00","duration":256,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.04596875,"end":17.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.64784375,"end":22.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.96409375,"end":28.144718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.97159375,"end":34.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.299718750000004,"end":38.860343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.227843750000005,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.45096875,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.244093750000005,"end":40.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.17221875,"end":47.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.80409375,"end":48.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.187843750000006,"end":50.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.04409375,"end":60.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.83159375,"end":67.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.37471875,"end":73.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.53846875,"end":77.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.06096875,"end":81.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.09409375,"end":87.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.27034375000001,"end":89.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.16034375000001,"end":92.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.65784375000001,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.96534375,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.29596875,"end":113.31284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.39721875000001,"end":116.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.26159375,"end":118.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.21909375000001,"end":142.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.62471875,"end":143.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.68784375,"end":144.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.03784375,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.74596875,"end":152.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.98596875,"end":154.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.26409375,"end":156.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.91784375,"end":159.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.71909375,"end":160.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.71471875,"end":162.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.41909375,"end":163.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.15721875,"end":165.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.62534375,"end":167.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.95409375,"end":169.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.54034375,"end":171.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.64971875,"end":173.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.07971875,"end":174.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.48034375,"end":185.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.33534375000002,"end":190.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.07284375,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.41846875000002,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.28221875000003,"end":202.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.23534375000003,"end":205.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.90596875,"end":206.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.28971875000002,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.34846875000002,"end":212.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.30159375000002,"end":214.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.81596875000002,"end":216.89159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.27971875,"end":218.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.59596875000003,"end":221.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.46471875,"end":222.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.66284375,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.61596875,"end":233.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.68659375000001,"end":250.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.87784375,"end":252.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.08034375000003,"end":252.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.61596875,"end":252.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.86909375000002,"end":252.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.88596875000002,"end":254.38784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.15159375000002,"end":256.19346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.319,"end":27.524,"text":"主席、各位委員,有請部長還有體育署署長。請部長和署長。委員好。部長好,還有署長好。我先請教一下體育署署長。"},{"start":29.148,"end":44.441,"text":"現在體育署有沒有原住民的人員在體育署有有幾位既有原住民身份的這個我記不得對不起不記得對不起這部分我數據沒有掌握是有嗎應該是有應該是有是不確定"},{"start":47.904,"end":49.585,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":68.444,"end":87.25,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．2024年代表台灣初賽奧運的原住民選手占21%,這個比例很高。然後在奧運共獲得7面獎牌,原住民7年奪得3面銅牌,占總獎牌數的比例。"},{"start":88.305,"end":90.086,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":119.8,"end":136.13,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 及相關未來要成立的國家運動訓練中心包括運動部全民運動署本席都有提出新訂的條文所以這裡面特別明訂"},{"start":145.12,"end":146.761,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 規定規定規定規定規定"},{"start":175.56,"end":195.013,"text":"教育部及體育署及立委及人事行政總署支持。公務人員的部分本席也提出相當的一個比例。公務人員也許大家會說部長或署長會認為他沒有公務人員資格怎麼去禁用。事實上部長"},{"start":204.301,"end":208.405,"text":"行政院函提供切額給考試院人事行政總署人事行政總署就會報給這個"},{"start":221.739,"end":249.501,"text":"檢驗部組織法草案案 會列入切額,然後禁用這些,可以有這樣的一個,所以管道都有,部長可以往這個方向。這當然我們,我想這確實原住民這個對台灣的運動跟在國際上的一些貢獻事實上是有目共睹。那這個方向對原住民這個的一個關照,的一個工作的權益,我想這個我們會來配合辦理。"},{"start":251.163,"end":251.844,"text":"行政院函審理財政部長鄭淑漲等19人擬具"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1020,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時23分）主席、各位委員，有請部長及體育署署長。"],["主席：請部長和署長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好、署長好。我先請教一下體育署署長，現在有沒有原住民的人員在體育署？"],["鄭署長世忠：有。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有幾位具有原住民身分的？"],["鄭署長世忠：這個我記不得，對不起。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不記得？"],["鄭署長世忠：對不起，這部分的數據我沒有掌握到。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：是有嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：應該是有啦！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：應該是有？所以是不確定啦！過去體委會時代是有，我知道後來他退休之後有一段時間沒有，現在是不是有我不知道，你回去查證一下再提供書面資料。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們看原住民人口占臺灣的比率只有2.5%，2024年代表臺灣出賽奧運的原住民選手占21%，這個比率很高。我們在奧運共獲得7面獎牌，原住民青年奪得3面銅牌，占總獎牌數的比率為42%。原住民運動人口為我們國家貢獻的比例都很高，但無論是過去的體委會或是現在的體育署，原住民相關人才包括在我們現在的運動中心都很少，其實本席也提了運動部組織法，以及針對未來要成立的國家運動訓練中心，包括運動部全民運動署本席都有提出新訂或是修正的條文，這裡面特別明定一定的比例，譬如說聘用人員，聘用人員不需要公務人員的資格，他只要符合聘用人員聘用條例的規定就可以進用，所以本席特別提出必須進用具有原住民身分一定的比例，當然這個比例大家可以討論。這個部分請教育部跟體育署，包括我們所有的立委，尤其是人事行政總處也能夠支持。","針對公務人員的部分，本席也提出相當的比例，也許部長或署長會認為他沒有公務人員資格怎麼去進用？事實上，長年以來考試院都有舉辦原住民行政特考，你們只要提供缺額給人事行政總處，人事行政總處就會報給考試院，考選部就會列入缺額，然後可以進用這些人，所以這個管道都有，部長可以往這個方向，我們一起……"],["鄭部長英耀：原住民對臺灣的運動跟在國際上的一些貢獻，事實上是有目共睹的，這個方向是對原住民的關照、維護其工作權益，我想我們會來配合辦理。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，非常謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝鄭委員，謝謝鄭部長，謝謝鄭署長，三位都姓鄭。接下來們有請楊委員瓊瓔發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156821","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156821","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678d1efc28ff7deb48c9fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86beb268d5fed35f2e155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:20:40 - 12:25:44","影片長度":"00:05:04","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:20:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:44+08:00","duration":304,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.4697187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.287218750000001,"end":8.586593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.738468750000003,"end":9.430343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.43346875,"end":16.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.09159375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.340343750000002,"end":28.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.87034375,"end":29.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.950343750000002,"end":31.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.890968750000003,"end":52.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.97534375,"end":33.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.93284375,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.85221875,"end":37.510343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.62409375,"end":39.619718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.06909375,"end":58.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.19471875000001,"end":65.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.83909375,"end":73.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.85471875,"end":79.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.29284375,"end":79.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.42346875,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.84034375,"end":87.62909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.96659375,"end":97.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.57284375,"end":96.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.02846875,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.56846875000001,"end":100.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.75784375,"end":130.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.14971875,"end":104.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.03596875,"end":137.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.32596875000002,"end":139.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.43534375000002,"end":159.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.97221875,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.62596875,"end":161.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.84284375000001,"end":178.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.89346875,"end":178.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.20971875,"end":184.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.37409375000001,"end":181.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.81221875,"end":185.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.73159375,"end":202.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.20596875,"end":209.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.88034375,"end":208.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.82096875000002,"end":210.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.96846875,"end":211.01909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.01909375000002,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.03596875000002,"end":211.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.23846875,"end":211.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.32284375,"end":219.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.89534375000002,"end":221.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.17346875,"end":253.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.39284375000003,"end":222.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.67534375000002,"end":223.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.05471875,"end":253.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.29096875000002,"end":260.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.07034375,"end":271.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.27534375,"end":272.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.29221875,"end":301.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.06284375,"end":282.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.29784375,"end":290.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.51971875000004,"end":302.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.75596875,"end":302.07659375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.186,"end":27.713,"text":"自詢。」主席有請部長。請陳部長。委員好。部長好。請問您有看到日前桃園爆出有人經營非法屠宰場殺害數百隻犬隻賣狗肉多年的新聞嗎?我"},{"start":30.137,"end":32.358,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":59.255,"end":63.301,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":74.932,"end":92.317,"text":"是因為屠狗者的家人看不下去才主動檢舉的。那為什麼我講這事情嚴重?它也顯現出今天我們的稽查的人力的部分可能是不足夠的。我們目前全國的專職的動保檢查員大概多少人?"},{"start":92.697,"end":115.133,"text":"我們農業部補助大概100個人總共是190幾個人但是目前我們動保檢察員的公權力其實相對來講的強度非常薄弱所以他在執法上就會出現很多的困難也因此有很多的動保團體倡議呼籲要設立專職的動保警察制度來因應"},{"start":116.494,"end":136.167,"text":"如果有專職的動物保護警察的話那很多動物保護案件跟動物保護悲劇就比較有較強的公權力可以來去防止它的發生那我想請問部長您支持嗎我想有關於動物保護警察的部分其實我們當初包括委員您也提出來然後我們也曾經跟內政務在討論那討論的一個過程就是說"},{"start":139.529,"end":158.904,"text":"一旦設了動保警察的時候那相關的其他的業務也有不同的專案的警察會出來所以他們是更積極的去建立當我們有案子發生的時候我們的動檢員可以直接跟警察局做聯絡以後警察會第一時間來配合所以這個機制現在越來越順暢"},{"start":161.565,"end":185.301,"text":"我先在這邊打斷,因為你後續的做法段你們再整理一份報告給我。但我要看的是所謂執行的績效段。那事實上我先請教部長,農業部2023年辦理動保檢舉申訴的稽查案件多少件?七點三萬件左右。差不多七萬多吧。對,七萬多件。裁除幾件?"},{"start":187.813,"end":194.022,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":203.234,"end":221.442,"text":"大概每一年通報的話大概是一千二到一千四然後今年的話都是883件對好那最後有幾件是按照動物保護法來判刑喔比例很低非常低嘛大概0.3而已嘛對啊那其實有一個很大的原因啦"},{"start":222.282,"end":250.128,"text":"就是因為我剛剛前面講的說其實動保警察的設置他不僅是增強稽查的那個人力稽查的執法的一個後盾還有一點就是在修正上他會比較齊全啦所以因為現在很多東西就是說你就算抓了以後你會發現罰也罰不了然後那個在這個刑事的訴追上也會有障礙就是因為在前端實際上你的執法的這個所謂的那個後盾不夠"},{"start":250.868,"end":252.089,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":272.504,"end":290.468,"text":"我跟委員報告這是我們修法的部分有賦予動保警察員執法的一個權利讓他可以進到私立運營這是第一件事情第二件事情如果跟內政部動保警察沒辦法成立的時候我們有考慮成立一個動保官的概念類似消保官的概念"},{"start":290.908,"end":294.073,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":938,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時20分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長好。請問部長有看到日前桃園爆出有人經營非法屠宰場，殺害數百隻犬隻、賣狗肉多年的新聞嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我聽過，但是好像還沒回報到我這邊。"],["羅委員智強：這個滿嚴重的，這也是你業管的項目，這種重大新聞你還是要掌握一下。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員智強：標題說這是汪星人的煉獄，我要跟部長講這件事情真的非常嚴重，有幾百隻的犬隻。"],["陳部長駿季：這應該不是最近的，應該是之前的。"],["羅委員智強：最近爆出來。"],["陳部長駿季：最近沒有通報，像這種的應該都會通報。"],["羅委員智強：我看到的新聞沒有很久，你們查一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我們再來查一下。"],["羅委員智強：這個案件之所以會被曝光，不是因為政府主動稽查，你知道是什麼原因被發現的嗎？是因為屠狗者的家人看不下去才主動檢舉。為什麼我講這件事情嚴重？可以顯現出今天我們稽查人力可能是不足的，目前全國專職的動保檢查員大概多少人？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部補助大概一百人，總共是一百九十幾人。"],["羅委員智強：但是目前動保檢查員的公權力相對來講非常薄弱，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員智強：所以他在執法上就出現很多的困難，也因此有很多的動保團體倡議、呼籲要設立專職的動保警察制度來因應，如果有專職的動保警察，很多動保案件和動保悲劇就比較有較強的公權力可以防止發生。請問部長，你支持嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有關動保警察的部分，包括委員也提出來，其實我們當初也曾經跟內政部討論，討論的過程認為一旦設了動保警察，相關的其他業務也有不同的專案警察會出來，所以他們更積極的建議當我們有案子發生的時候，我們的動檢員可以直接跟警察局聯絡，警察會第一時間來配合，這個機制現在越來越順暢。第二個部分……"],["羅委員智強：我先在這邊打斷，你後續的做法端，你再整理一份報告給我。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["羅委員智強：但我要看的是執行的績效端，請教部長，農業部2023年辦理動保檢舉申訴的稽查案件有多少件？7.3萬件左右吧！"],["陳部長駿季：差不多七點七萬多件。"],["羅委員智強：裁處幾件？1,604件，裁處率大概2%左右。請教你，過去5年，也就是2019年到2023年，全國虐待動物的通報件數是幾件？"],["陳部長駿季：每一年通報數大概1,200件到1,400件，今年是883件。"],["羅委員智強：最後有幾件是按照動保法判刑？"],["陳部長駿季：比率很低。"],["羅委員智強：非常低，大概0.3%而已。其實有一個很大的原因，就是剛才我前面講的，動保警察的設置不僅增強稽查的人力、稽查執法的後盾，還有一點就是蒐證上會比較齊全，因為現在很多案件是你抓了以後發現罰也罰不了，在刑事的訴追上也有障礙，就是因為在前端執法的後盾不夠，蒐證的強度當然就不夠，所以我還是認為今天農業部對於動保警察如果還有法制上的疑慮，第一個你要把疑慮點出來，第二個你還是要能夠去防範現在層出不窮的動保問題，績效端還是要注意一下。"],["陳部長駿季：是，我跟委員報告，我們修法有賦予動保檢查員執法的權力，讓他可以進到私領域，這是第一件事情。第二件事情，如果內政部動保警察無法成立時，我們有考慮成立動保官的概念，類似消保官的概念，去處理這些紛爭，不管怎麼樣，我們一定是為了動物的保護而努力。"],["羅委員智強：很好，反正就是要找出一條路來彌補這個缺口，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：請賴士葆、賴士葆、賴士葆委員不在。","請何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","請李坤城、李坤城、李坤城委員不在。","請高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","請洪申翰委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156820","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156820","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66788700494691005a5056f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be6bec4195852848de5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"12:13:35 - 12:25:22","影片長度":"00:11:47","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:25:22+08:00","duration":707,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":1.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.69721875,"end":3.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.076593750000001,"end":5.785343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.64596875,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.704093750000002,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.99096875,"end":13.446593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.007843750000003,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.615343750000001,"end":19.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.77471875,"end":24.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.984718750000003,"end":35.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.48534375,"end":42.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.53909375,"end":57.304718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.555968750000005,"end":43.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.945968750000006,"end":61.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.899093750000006,"end":68.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.84721875000001,"end":72.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.04096875,"end":80.01846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.98971875000001,"end":75.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.06909375000001,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.64159375,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.57596875,"end":123.64034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.63846875,"end":109.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.64659375000001,"end":110.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.96721875,"end":111.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.72659375,"end":111.82784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.36596875000001,"end":131.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.20471875,"end":131.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.72346875,"end":143.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.21159375000002,"end":142.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.73846875,"end":145.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.40909375,"end":146.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.37096875,"end":147.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.41721875000002,"end":148.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.61534375000002,"end":149.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.74596875,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.88909375,"end":154.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.36534375000002,"end":156.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.39471875,"end":156.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.44534375,"end":156.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.46221875,"end":156.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.83346875,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.96846875,"end":157.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.40721875,"end":158.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.47471875000002,"end":157.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.76159375,"end":158.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.18346875,"end":158.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.20034375,"end":158.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.41971875000002,"end":158.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.43659375000001,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.67284375,"end":159.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.85846875000001,"end":161.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.69784375,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.07721875000001,"end":168.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.51096875000002,"end":175.73346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.48096875000002,"end":172.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.42534375000002,"end":178.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.08346875,"end":178.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.65284375000002,"end":179.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.66534375,"end":184.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.44096875000002,"end":184.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.81221875,"end":186.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.63471875000002,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.17471875,"end":212.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.51846875,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.47034375,"end":226.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.46596875,"end":214.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.91096875000002,"end":236.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.02784375000002,"end":237.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.56346875000003,"end":243.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.27596875,"end":248.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.59534375,"end":250.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.97909375,"end":257.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.50971875,"end":258.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.23096875000005,"end":266.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.83346875,"end":265.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.38596875,"end":267.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.78659375,"end":268.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.39409375,"end":268.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.92971875,"end":273.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.74346875000003,"end":275.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.14409375,"end":276.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.27034375,"end":278.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.59909375,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.83471875000004,"end":287.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.85096875,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.25534375,"end":293.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.65159375,"end":295.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.37721875,"end":297.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.94221875,"end":298.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.17784375,"end":302.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.19471875,"end":302.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.32971875000004,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.57846875,"end":303.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.89909375,"end":316.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.70346875,"end":317.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.74096875000004,"end":317.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.21346875,"end":319.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.20909375,"end":324.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.73971875,"end":326.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.83659375,"end":326.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.32159375000003,"end":328.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.00909375000003,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.59096875,"end":332.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.49784375,"end":333.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.64534375,"end":335.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.01221875000005,"end":337.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.36221875,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.41659375,"end":342.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.89721875000004,"end":344.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.28096875,"end":345.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.56784375,"end":345.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.73221875,"end":347.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.47471875,"end":349.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.71909375,"end":348.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.85409375,"end":349.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.34346875,"end":349.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.41096875,"end":349.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.64721875000004,"end":350.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.47409375,"end":350.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.06471875,"end":353.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.75221875,"end":352.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.76909375,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.03909375,"end":353.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.07284375,"end":353.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.27534375000005,"end":353.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.81534375,"end":353.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.84909375,"end":353.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.30471875,"end":367.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.83159375,"end":358.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.79659375,"end":366.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.80471875,"end":367.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.82159375000003,"end":373.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.59284375000004,"end":375.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.46596875,"end":376.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.08596875,"end":378.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.92534375,"end":380.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.43971875,"end":381.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.77721875000003,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.82784375,"end":383.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.00471875000005,"end":388.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.42596875000004,"end":397.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.92659375000005,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.42346875000004,"end":408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.15284375000005,"end":410.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.30846875000003,"end":412.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.35034375000004,"end":415.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":416.43846875,"end":418.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.37909375000004,"end":419.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.93596875000003,"end":422.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.47971875,"end":424.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.15034375000005,"end":424.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.89284375000005,"end":430.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.22096875000005,"end":438.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.51096875,"end":442.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.15596875000006,"end":445.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.76721875000004,"end":447.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.72034375000004,"end":450.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.20534375000005,"end":450.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.35284375000003,"end":452.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.52971875000003,"end":454.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.33534375000005,"end":457.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.23784375,"end":458.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.33909375,"end":459.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.51596875,"end":462.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.62534375,"end":463.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.97971875,"end":464.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.22846875000005,"end":465.39284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.74721875,"end":467.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.29971875,"end":467.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.90721875,"end":469.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.47221875,"end":471.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.82221875000005,"end":474.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.63596875,"end":477.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.54284375000003,"end":484.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.52534375000005,"end":482.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.81596875,"end":486.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.64284375000005,"end":488.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":487.98846875000004,"end":494.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.74284375,"end":502.48409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.80471875,"end":507.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.67721875,"end":509.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.33096875,"end":511.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.68096875000003,"end":513.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.80721875,"end":514.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.0222187500001,"end":516.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.50721875,"end":516.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.4184687500001,"end":518.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.75596875,"end":519.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.74721875,"end":527.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.07971875,"end":525.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.2903437500001,"end":530.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":531.44159375,"end":532.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.43721875,"end":536.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.28096875,"end":534.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.2765937500001,"end":534.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.16659375,"end":537.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.46596875,"end":541.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.57096875,"end":542.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.20346875,"end":543.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.51971875,"end":553.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.9365937499999,"end":550.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.46346875,"end":560.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.61534375,"end":553.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.4834687499999,"end":562.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.6984687500001,"end":581.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.69159375,"end":579.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.07096875,"end":584.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.2265937500001,"end":587.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.9897187500001,"end":588.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.4115937500001,"end":591.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":591.6515937500001,"end":599.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.23721875,"end":601.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.99596875,"end":615.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.79971875,"end":617.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.47034375,"end":617.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.60534375,"end":617.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.1284687500001,"end":620.6765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.8959687500001,"end":623.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.08534375,"end":628.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.16909375,"end":631.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.25284375,"end":644.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":644.62221875,"end":670.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.4878437500001,"end":692.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.41221875,"end":698.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.3403437500001,"end":693.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.04409375,"end":703.09409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.349,"end":24.118,"text":"陳副、莊部長部長莊部長你好委員好統一發票的中獎其實是人民的小確幸那自從統一發票現在有很多雲端電子發票現在的比例大概是多少那麼未來還是會持續做電子發票嗎"},{"start":26.132,"end":34.434,"text":"當然因為可以減紙減碳所以應該是朝向無紙化所以應該是朝向雲端發票來做一個發展"},{"start":36.046,"end":56.804,"text":"所以以後他中獎的公信力其實有待對外多宣導一下這個部分因為是跟所有人民的利益關係有很多的小學生也好或是國中生、一些家庭主婦每次期待的就是那一張發票可以中獎"},{"start":58.021,"end":87.544,"text":"所以千萬一定要公正要公平好不好對於兩個月一次的統一發票開票的中獎我們一定是 歷來也都是公正公開的那現在那個主數有沒有多一點主數我們會隨著就是說那個發票獎金執行的結果因為有些人中了沒有來領我們就會增加主數對現在的問題就是大家想說那有很多中了獎沒去領的那這些獎金跑去哪裡了"},{"start":88.685,"end":102.627,"text":"就會轉到今年如果再增加組數所以我們希望大家運用雲端發票然後下載我們的APP那這樣的話然後設定他的領獎帳號那這樣他不要對獎金都會直接進入他的帳戶那看到就很開心"},{"start":104.049,"end":122.641,"text":"副長,你們在座,其實我們也是很相信的但是,為了要讓大眾招公信,所以是希望說有機會的話,排一下民間的團體,或者是律師、或者會計師等等,現場一起來見證,這樣的話你們也不是比較輕鬆嗎?"},{"start":124.677,"end":146.08,"text":"每2個月開票、開統一發票這個部分都一定會有公正公開的做那至於其他辦理其他的那個租稅宣導的一個抽獎活動我們認為要全面做檢討沒有更好的防範機制之前我們寧可不做寧可不要做這個抽獎我講這個責任都一定要非常謹慎最高獎金是多少哪一個發票統一發票"},{"start":147.481,"end":175.323,"text":"最高獎金是多少?一千萬一千萬?哇!不錯勒那現在每一期有幾張一千萬?每一期不一樣每一期不一樣?幾張?每一期的那個特別獎的中獎張數不一定有時候可能會比較多大概15到17張左右好來你們多宣導一下有夢最美希望得獎的民眾都可以中一千萬"},{"start":176.752,"end":186.047,"text":"是 謝謝委員我們很期待的是那另外再講的就是這個今天的貨物稅的部分是貨物稅今天這個要不要讓他過"},{"start":187.476,"end":198.14,"text":"我想這個已經是到今年的12月就屆期我們希望對於有關復康巴士還有載運輪椅使用者的那個車子能夠讓他繼續延長這個免徵的這樣的一個貨物稅然後可以鼓勵讓我們這個身體行動不這麼方便的人再友善的一個好的一個行的方便的工具"},{"start":212.546,"end":221.43,"text":"是啦 這個要支持啦因為多照顧弱勢、社會關懷所以本來就應該要做比較方便一點嘛那我們看到現在這個貨物稅我請教一下現在電動車像Tesla進來台灣要不要課稅"},{"start":228.35,"end":247.796,"text":"我們這個貨物稅電動車的部分免稅但是小客車要140萬以下的部分免徵140萬以上那個部分是減半所以電動車竟然是免稅的電動車不是全部免稅啊要看那個小客車是那個一個金額以下那像一樣是小客車現在全世界評比的小米汽車啊"},{"start":249.636,"end":278.695,"text":"很便宜然後它的性價比也CP值非常高那請問小米有沒有可能會進來台灣需不需要課稅對於貨物進口小米那個是大陸車現在沒有整車進口不可以進口整車沒有進口現在大陸的不能進整車那如果進的話是不是課重稅呢還是根本就不能進現在是都不能進現在不能進喔因為川普當選了以後"},{"start":279.659,"end":298.179,"text":"有很多的關稅壁壘加稅、關稅一定都會面臨很大的調整那比如說美國進口到台灣的貨品我們會不會因為美國他調高我們跟著調高貨物稅"},{"start":302.642,"end":328.171,"text":"相關的產品相關的產品我覺得這個部分我們看最後美國川普總統就任以後相關的一些稅制的調整我們會持續的觀察部長你要做準備啊你要沙盤推演一下是我們會持續的關注我們國內這個企業不要受到太大的傷害至少我們要承受得起啊是當然我們會關注那像今年啊"},{"start":329.071,"end":337.457,"text":"美國又要求我們軍購要增加那我們跟美國買軍購進來台灣的時候要不要瞌睡"},{"start":340.498,"end":345.924,"text":"是只課關稅是嗎?軍購啊,譬如買F35啊,或是買比較好的武器進來,會課稅嗎?軍購會不會課稅?軍品的話是有免稅的規定,就是說國防部那邊"},{"start":360.882,"end":379.975,"text":"他進口的軍品或者是委託廠商進口的軍品是可以免稅的國防部會出具免稅證明OK那比如說美國要求我們貿易要平衡買了很多波音的這個飛機這裡有很多繼續在買那個進來要不要課稅波音你是課機是吧"},{"start":382.528,"end":409.8,"text":"克基克基如果不是國防使用的應該是要課稅提醒部長想一下貿易戰展開了以後我們會面對怎麼樣的問題如何適時的來調整我們會持續關注新任總統上任以後採取的相關的政策我們接著就看一些民營機構的表現"},{"start":411.363,"end":437.879,"text":"今年的所有的金融機構表現好不好您是指公民營是吧整個金融機構其實獲利應該是不錯的獲利屢創新高啊那你覺得我們所有的公股相關的這些事業機構哪一家表現得比較好基本上他們都非常的努力也都在做表現而且每一家其實他們的重點也都不一樣"},{"start":438.564,"end":459.179,"text":"那當然同樣他們也擔負了相關的一些政策的一些任務真的嗎?我看這裡面有一些表現得不錯喔比如說台灣中小企營是,中小企營是因為我們常常在這邊開會我記得幾年前中小企營的股價才七、八塊現在中小企營幾塊了?"},{"start":460.52,"end":472.599,"text":"陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠廷等15人、委員陳冠�"},{"start":475.66,"end":495.472,"text":"不錯啊 兆豐也不錯啊 合庫也很好兆豐不錯 兆豐本來就是算是公庫表現比較好的對 第一啊 算是模範生第一表現得好不好好啊 也不錯第一不錯 對合庫表現得好不好合庫也不錯啊 他們都是系統性的銀行然後都會受到更多的一些監管那你表現得好的你要鼓勵啊"},{"start":496.433,"end":511.292,"text":"我發現在公股的體系裡面你很認真做表現很好比如說公股相關今天這裡面有一個最強的我查了一下股價經常漲到80塊是哪一家"},{"start":515.12,"end":543.333,"text":"在我們在座裡面啊?對啊有八十嗎?不然你管的你都不知道我沒有看照封不是39塊嗎?都39有到八十幾那是不是民營銀行呢?周邊的啦今天就有來我看今天有來啊官貿官貿為什麼官貿?他的表現會那麼傑出是非常傑出我們的稅務系統相關因為他薪水比他們還高啦喔"},{"start":544.605,"end":559.306,"text":"所以我一直在這邊提到的是公股相關機構的管理你要馬兒好你要讓馬兒要吃草啊結果你都是那個大鍋飯A、B、C大家吃的都通通一樣的級數"},{"start":560.563,"end":587.312,"text":"所以就沒有辦法鼓勵他們嘛公股民營的部分基本上是屬於他們公司治理的範圍當然國營事業的部分因為受到相關法規的限制那剛剛委員在質詢的時候也都有提到希望能夠對國營事業的金融機構能夠有一些那個好好調整一下放寬一些管束啊我們找一個好的經理人可能可以為國家賺更多更多幾倍以上的錢"},{"start":588.032,"end":616.734,"text":"是今年稅收大概要超徵多少今年的話中央數大概會超過預算數大概3000億那中央的部分3000億本席還是要拜託部長苦民所苦民眾現在物價飆漲生活苦拜託優先超徵的稅收還稅於民今年有沒有機會來編一下一個人一萬塊紅包委員沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":618.168,"end":643.484,"text":"那你可以想想看啊 可以提啊因為現在民眾真的很期盼不信的話莊部長你去做一下民意調查就是說政府今年稅收又超徵30千億如果這些錢不要亂花優先來分給每一個民眾一個人加發紅包一萬塊你來做一個民意調查看看大家贊不贊成"},{"start":644.905,"end":660.835,"text":"委員我想政府部門對於需要幫助、輔助的一個民眾都會努力的在做所以我們社福支出事實上是目前來說稅出裡面佔最高大概到26%、27%那是對真正需要的人政府應該我們有這樣好的一個財政我們累積財政的能量可以讓需要需要獲得資源的部分可以獲得更好的資源我覺得比對更重要你講這個我也接受啦因為齁"},{"start":672.322,"end":688.552,"text":"每一次我們在財委會多年來要替民眾要紅包爭取福利第一個財政部一定說NO但是我希望部長回去還是想想看或是民意調查調出來以後如果民眾有這個需要拜託拜託一個人發紅包一萬塊"},{"start":691.655,"end":702.732,"text":"拜託謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝羅明財委員部長這個羅委員諮詢非常高招你千萬不要讓他分化你跟公股銀行的感情"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1265,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（12時13分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好，請莊部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["羅委員明才：莊部長好。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：統一發票的中獎其實是人民的小確幸，自從統一發票有很多雲端電子發票，現在的比例大概是多少？未來還是會持續做電子發票嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然，因為可以減紙、減碳，所以應該是朝向無紙化、朝向雲端發票來發展。"],["羅委員明才：是，所以以後對於中獎的公信力，其實有待對外多宣導一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：因為這是跟所有人民的利益關係，有很多的小學生、國中生及家庭主婦，每次期待的就是那一張發票可以中獎，所以千萬一定要公正、要公平，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：一定的，對於兩個月一次的統一發票開票的中獎，我們一定是如此，且歷來也都是公正、公開的。"],["羅委員明才：現在組數有沒有多一點？最多是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：組數我們會隨著發票獎金執行的結果，因為有些人中了沒有來領，我們就會增加組數。"],["羅委員明才：大家就是會想一個問題，很多人中了獎沒去領，這些獎金跑去哪裡了？"],["莊部長翠雲：就會轉到今年再增加組數，所以我們希望大家運用雲端發票，然後下載我們的app，設定他的領獎帳號，這樣他就不用對獎，獎金都會直接進入他的帳戶，那一看到就很開心。"],["羅委員明才：部長，你們所做的其實我們也是很相信。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：但是為了要昭大眾之公信，我也是希望有機會可以安排民間團體或是律師、會計師等等現場一起來見證，這樣的話你們不是也比較輕鬆嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：每兩個月開統一發票這個部分都一定會公正、公開的做，至於辦理其他租稅宣導的抽獎活動，我們認為要全面做檢討，沒有更好的防範機制之前，我們寧可不要做這個抽獎，我想這個部分都一定要非常謹慎。"],["羅委員明才：部長加油了。統一發票的最高獎金是多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：最高獎金是1,000萬。"],["羅委員明才：1,000萬不錯耶，那現在每一期有幾張1,000萬？"],["莊部長翠雲：每一期不一樣。"],["賴組長基福：報告委員，每一期特別獎的中獎張數不一定，有時候可能會比較多，大概15到17張左右。"],["羅委員明才：你們多宣導一下，有夢最美，希望得獎的民眾都可以中1,000萬。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：我們很期待。","另外問及今天的主題有關貨物稅的部分，貨物稅今天這個要不要讓它過？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為到今年12月就屆期，我們希望復康巴士及載運輪椅使用者的車子能夠繼續延長免徵貨物稅，可以給行動不方便的人在行的部分提供一個友善的方便工具。"],["羅委員明才：是啦，這個要支持，因為多照顧弱勢、關懷社會，這個本來就應該要做，讓他們比較方便一點。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：有關貨物稅，我請教一下，現在電動車像Tesla進來臺灣要不要課稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：貨物稅是電動車的部分免稅，但小客車是140萬以下免徵，140萬以上是減半。"],["羅委員明才：所以電動車進來是免稅的？"],["莊部長翠雲：電動車不是全部免稅，要看小客車是在一個金額以下。"],["羅委員明才：小客車啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：對、對。"],["羅委員明才：一樣再就小客車，現在全世界評比的小米汽車很便宜，然後它的性價比CP值非常高，請問小米有沒有可能會進來臺灣？需不需要課稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：小米是大陸車，現在沒有整車進口，整車沒有進口。"],["羅委員明才：現在大陸的不能進？"],["莊部長翠雲：是整車。"],["羅委員明才：如果進的話是不是課重稅？還是根本就不能進？"],["彭署長英偉：現在不能進。"],["莊部長翠雲：現在是都不能進。"],["羅委員明才：因為川普當選了以後，有很多的關稅壁壘，加稅、關稅一定都會面臨很大的調整，比如美國進口到臺灣的貨品，因為美國調高，我們會不會跟著調高貨物稅？相關的產品。"],["莊部長翠雲：相關的產品，我覺得這個部分我們看美國川普總統就任以後相關的一些稅制的調整，我們會持續的觀察，看看有沒有什麼因應的方式。"],["羅委員明才：那部長要做準備啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：當然會。"],["羅委員明才：要沙盤推演一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們會持續的關注。"],["羅委員明才：要保護國內的企業不要受到太大的傷害，至少我們要承受得起。"],["莊部長翠雲：當然我們會關注，然後……"],["羅委員明才：像今年美國又要求我們軍購要增加，我們跟美國買軍購進來臺灣時要不要課稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：你是指課什麼稅？關稅嗎？"],["羅委員明才：軍購啊！比如買F-35，或是買比較好的武器進來，會課稅嗎？軍購會不會課稅？"],["彭署長英偉：軍品是有免稅的規定，國防部進口的軍品或者是委託廠商進口的軍品是可以免稅的，國防部會出具免稅證明。"],["羅委員明才：OK。再者，比如美國要求我們貿易要平衡，買了很多波音的飛機，現在有很多繼續在買，那個進來要不要課稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：你說的波音是客機嗎？"],["羅委員明才：客機。"],["彭署長英偉：如果不是國防使用的應該是要課稅。"],["羅委員明才：OK，講到這邊就要提醒部長想一下，貿易戰展開了以後，我們會面對怎麼樣的問題？如何適時的來調整？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們會持續關注新任總統上任以後採取的相關政策。"],["羅委員明才：繼續我們接著看一些民營機構的表現，今年所有的金融機構表現好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：您是指公民營是不是？"],["羅委員明才：整個社會的。"],["莊部長翠雲：整個金融機構其實獲利應該是不錯的。"],["羅委員明才：獲利屢創新高，你覺得我們所有公股相關的事業機構，哪一家表現得比較好？"],["莊部長翠雲：基本上，他們都非常的努力，也都在做表現，而且每一家其實重點也都不一樣，當然同樣他們也擔負了相關的一些政策的任務。"],["羅委員明才：真的嗎？我看這裡面有一些表現的不錯，譬如臺灣中小企銀。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，中小企銀是。"],["羅委員明才：因為我們常常在這邊開會，我記得幾年前中小企銀的股價才七、八塊，現在中小企銀幾塊了？"],["莊部長翠雲：十幾塊吧，就我所知。"],["羅委員明才：快十五塊了。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，十幾塊。"],["羅委員明才：所以員工都非常的開心，以前就覺得沒有希望。另外在公股銀行裡面表現比較好還有哪一家？"],["莊部長翠雲：兆豐也不錯啊，合庫也很好。"],["羅委員明才：兆豐不錯，兆豐本來就算是公股表現比較好的，算是模範生。"],["莊部長翠雲：還有第一。"],["羅委員明才：第一表現得好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好啊！"],["羅委員明才：第一不錯。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["羅委員明才：合庫表現得好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：合庫也不錯啊！他們都是系統性的銀行，然後都會受到更多的一些監管。"],["羅委員明才：那你對於表現好的要鼓勵啊，我發現在公股的體系裡面，很認真在做，表現很好，譬如公股相關的，今天這裡面有一個最強的，我查了一下，股價竟然漲到80塊，是哪一家？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們在座裡面的啊？"],["羅委員明才：對啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：有80塊嗎？"],["羅委員明才：部長，你管的你都不知道？"],["莊部長翠雲：我沒有看，兆豐不是39塊嗎？有到八十幾？那是不是民營銀行呢？"],["羅委員明才：周邊的啦，今天就有來，我看今天有來啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：關貿嗎？"],["羅委員明才：為什麼關貿的表現會那麼傑出？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，非常傑出，我們的稅務系統相關5月份報稅……"],["羅委員明才：因為關貿的薪水比他們還高啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：喔！"],["羅委員明才：我一直在這邊提到公股相關機構的管理，你要馬兒好，你得讓馬兒要吃草啊！如果都是大鍋飯，大家吃的統統都是一樣的級數，那就沒有辦法鼓勵他們嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：公股民營的部分，基本上是屬於他們公司治理的範圍，當然國營事業的部分因為受到相關法規的限制，剛剛委員在質詢的時候也都有提到，希望能夠對國營事業的金融機構放寬一些管束。"],["羅委員明才：那個好好調整一下，我們找一個好的經理人，可能可以為國家賺更多更多幾倍以上的錢。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["羅委員明才：今年稅收大概又超徵多少？"],["莊部長翠雲：今年中央的部分會超過預算數大概3,000億。"],["羅委員明才：本席還是要拜託部長要苦民所苦，民眾現在因為物價飆漲而生活苦哈哈，拜託超徵的稅收要優先還稅於民，今年有沒有機會來編一下一個人1萬塊紅包？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，沒有這樣的規劃耶！"],["羅委員明才：那你可以想想看啊，可以提啊！因為現在民眾真的很期盼，莊部長不信的話可以去做一下民意調查，就是政府今年稅收又超徵三、四千億，如果這些錢不要亂花，優先來分給每一個民眾，一個人加發紅包1萬塊，你來做一個民意調查，看看大家贊不贊成？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我想政府部門對於需要幫助或是扶助的民眾都會努力的做，所以我們的社福支出目前在歲出裡面占最高，大概到26%、27%，那是對真正需要的人，政府應該做的是，我們有這樣好的一個財政，我們累積財政的能量，可以讓需要獲得支援的部分獲得更好的支援，這個很重要。"],["羅委員明才：部長，你試試看啦！你講這個我也接受，因為多年來每一次我們在財委會要替民眾要紅包爭取福利，第一個財政部一定說No，但是我希望部長回去還是想想看，或者做出民意調查，如果民眾有這個需要，拜託能夠一個人發紅包1萬塊，拜託！謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員。部長，羅委員質詢非常高招，你千萬不要讓他分化你跟公股銀行的感情。","接著請王世堅委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156819","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156819","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66780d7635445c342af8370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86be21b00f39ec1a9b485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"12:15:06 - 12:22:44","影片長度":"00:07:38","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:15:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:22:44+08:00","duration":458,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":5.414093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.684093750000001,"end":5.886593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.95409375,"end":6.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.657843750000001,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.062843750000003,"end":17.867843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.22659375,"end":19.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.44159375,"end":19.234718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.26846875,"end":19.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.38659375,"end":40.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.61534375,"end":77.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.28034375,"end":100.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.73659375000001,"end":151.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.13096875000001,"end":116.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.03721875000001,"end":122.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.90971875000001,"end":129.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.71534375000002,"end":129.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.07534375,"end":148.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.74596875,"end":229.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.37471875000003,"end":258.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.36534375000002,"end":236.75346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.70346875,"end":270.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.72284375000004,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.76034375,"end":280.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.97471875,"end":285.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.35409375,"end":281.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.14659375,"end":294.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.30159375,"end":293.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.07784375,"end":373.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.91096875,"end":363.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.96409375,"end":378.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.03096875,"end":452.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.24721875,"end":457.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.49159375000005,"end":456.33096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.511,"end":3.395,"text":"運動部組織法草案案。"},{"start":12.434,"end":37.75,"text":"部長辛苦了我剛才聽說您要爭取擔任體育部部長這是主席開玩笑開玩笑對啊為了教育我想您才那個剛到教育部我們要那個積極留下您雖然運動部也很重要那我想今天其實我比較想問的是運動部不應該只是體育署的2.0那我相信你們有非常多的願景所以我想就幾個問題來請教您"},{"start":41.007,"end":41.407,"text":"體育暨運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":55.646,"end":69.675,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具:「運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具 «體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具"},{"start":78.782,"end":98.856,"text":"組織架構來看我其實沒有看出如何強化全民運動因為我看所有的這個組織內容其實除了多了綜合規劃司適應運動司之外那多出來的是國家運動產業發展中心那部長可不可以簡單講一下這個全民運動如何透過你這個組織架構來完成呢"},{"start":101.749,"end":102.069,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案"},{"start":118.675,"end":119.476,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":136.514,"end":136.894,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":152.065,"end":169.979,"text":"我想其實我們全民運動不只是為的是競技可以做得更好以台灣的國力我們競技這幾年已經突破很多了教育部我們也知道花了非常多的資源跟心力在這我們王振旭醫師待會也會質詢他應該是從健康的角度我非常的認同全民運動還有一個重要的目標是健康不管是對我們的健保或是對我們的國民的福祉的話都很重要"},{"start":179.727,"end":180.067,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":195.964,"end":211.875,"text":"我去查了一下其實我們知道競技項目我們女選手做得非常的不錯對不對就得牌我們這次看到這麼多的奧運的得牌都是女性那這次巴黎奧運的50-50也有達到可是我們看一下國人規律運動"},{"start":212.936,"end":214.197,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案（事由．一．一．一．一．一．一．"},{"start":230.445,"end":231.965,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":259.738,"end":274.364,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":286.989,"end":293.071,"text":"家庭組成是男女共同分擔責,而不是說女生扛大部分的責任。」"},{"start":304.514,"end":305.154,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":321.164,"end":323.145,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":348.439,"end":349.8,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 發展部組織法草案案件 發展部組織法草案案件 發展部組織法草案案件"},{"start":374.385,"end":375.326,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":396.476,"end":397.937,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事 中職賽事"},{"start":419.278,"end":427.184,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由（立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具、「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具、「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會等19人擬具"},{"start":447.099,"end":447.52,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":996,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時15分）謝謝鍾佳濱召委，有請部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["范委員雲：部長辛苦了，我剛才聽說您要爭取擔任運動部部長？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是主席開玩笑。"],["范委員雲：開玩笑喔！為了教育，我想您才剛到教育部，我們要積極留下您，雖然運動部也很重要啦！今天其實我比較想問的是，運動部不應該只是體育署的2.0，我相信你們有非常多的願景，所以我想就幾問題來請教您。第一個部分，我查了一下體育署要升格運動部，預算會從目前的130億到未來多達200億，原本體育署的人力是130人，未來會有400人，我想增加預算跟增加人力當然是全民期待的，也是教育及文化委員會期待的。我比較想問的是，因為過去體育署花比較少的心力在全民運動這個部分，我從新聞也看到你們認為全民運動非常的重要，可是從目前的組織架構來看，我其實沒有看出如何強化全民運動，因為我看所有的組織內容，其實除了多了綜合規劃司、適應運動司之外，另外還多出國家運動產業發展中心，部長可不可以簡單講一下全民運動如何透過這個組織架構來完成呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，針對全民運動，事實上在過去來講，我們校園有許多運動場館沒有普遍為社區所使用，所以我們會加強學校端校園開放場館的使用，同時也因為過去我們的思維大概是早期運動選手的培養，競技型都是從小時候……"],["范委員雲：從校園開始，對。"],["鄭部長英耀：都是特定的一些人，我們希望透過全民運動的增加，達成兵多將廣，也就是競技型的全民運動，未來我們當然也能夠滿足許多有潛力的新世代青少年能夠為國家，或者讓他的生涯發展有一個更亮麗的未來的想像。"],["范委員雲：謝謝部長，我想全民運動不只是為了競技可以做得更好，以臺灣的國力，我們的競技這幾年已經突破很多了，我們也知道教育部花了非常多的資源跟心力在這兒，王正旭醫師待會兒也會質詢，他應該是從健康的角度，我非常的認同。全民運動還有一個重要的目標是健康，不管是對我們的健保或是對我們的國民福祉都很重要。","我們來看一下，如果教育部在思考怎麼樣把全民運動做得好的話，以剛剛部長所講的學校開放，我覺得是不足的，這表示你們沒有仔細去思考怎麼樣讓全民運動可以做得更好。我去查了一下，其實競技項目我們的女選手做得非常不錯，對不對？我們看到這次這麼多的奧運得牌都是女性，這次巴黎奧運的50、50也有達到，可是我們看一下國人的規律運動，如果你看國人規律運動的性別的話，你會發現女性在30歲到39歲是非常驚人的遠低於男性，大概直到50歲以後才開始高於男性一點點。也就是說，其實從一開始的13歲到17歲跟50歲以後，女生並沒有不喜歡運動，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["范委員雲：50歲以後還高於男性，13歲到17歲也沒有差異那麼大，可是為什麼30歲到39歲女性的運動比值會差異這麼大？部長，您覺得為什麼30歲到39歲的女性比起男性來講，規律運動人口減少了非常多？部長覺得是為什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這個社會對女性朋友有一些傳統的想像，或者應該說穩定家庭的力量常常都是來自於女性……"],["范委員雲：那男性沒有家庭嗎？他為什麼運動沒有……雖然他的規律運動有稍微降低一些，但卻是遠高於女性。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想委員也在追求希望性平、希望全民運動、希望未來家庭的組成是男女要共同分擔責任，而不是女生扛大部分的責任。"],["范委員雲：是，請部長看一下右邊這則新聞是「小孩交給World Gym最放心，家長盡情運動去」，連World Gym都知道要賺會員費或是要賺錢必須要有小孩，尤其是現在年輕的家長，可能更沒有人手可以幫忙帶小孩，因為現在的家庭也是核心家庭化，而目前我們的公托跟各方面的設施，其實沒有辦法提供家長有這種臨托的服務。你看我們為了推廣文化活動，在很多委員的努力下，文化部都推出演出中孩童陪伴服務。我過去擔任各地方政府性平委員的時候，也曾經提出政府出資的運動中心是不是能夠增加托育服務，讓育齡期的爸媽們能夠增加運動的機會，特別是媽媽可能更容易受到這方面的束縛，可是地方政府跟運動中心都說他們錢不夠，我想這件事情就是未來的運動部可以努力的。如果真的要做全民運動，就應該看到哪一塊人口為什麼不來運動？原因是什麼？我認為應該從這裡加強，不知道部長未來可以去努力嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是的，謝謝委員提醒，確實這一個方向就是我們應該要做的。"],["范委員雲：再來還有幾點，包括有幾位體育專家提到的場地不足，像部長剛剛講的學校的部分也不足，針對場地不足的解決方案，包含這次大巨蛋在大家的壓力下，它一年才撥出20場到35場給中職的賽事，我想這都是相關規定不足的部分。","我最後還想提的就是，最近有很多的新聞，不知道部長有沒有看到？4個體操選手出來控訴金牌教練性侵，時間長達十多年，從小學到國中開始發育之後。就我們整個體育環境而言，教育部性平做得非常好，過去潘部長也非常努力，可是我要講的是教育部有一塊一直做得不好，那就是體育署，我們不斷地在接陳情案，就是相關的教練跟環境非常沒有人權跟性平的觀念，不管您是不是運動部長，我想未來的運動部不應該只有升格人力和預算，整個觀念也要從我們建立的過程中就非常清楚的明示好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是的，這是應該要做的。"],["范委員雲：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝范委員，謝謝部長。","接下來有請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156818","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156818","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667813998696de20bbf85158c0789247a306ea236d48226e86bee53ce74b245c9edf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:14:25 - 12:21:23","影片長度":"00:06:58","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:14:25+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:21:23+08:00","duration":418,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.27971875,"end":1.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":8.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.21096875,"end":10.341593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.78034375,"end":18.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.660968750000002,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.782218750000006,"end":59.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.12284375,"end":60.595343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.34221875,"end":67.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.59846875000001,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.79659375,"end":76.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.17159375,"end":73.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.32721875,"end":80.87909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.73971875000001,"end":94.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.95284375,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.12471875,"end":129.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.05409375000002,"end":159.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.10846875000001,"end":152.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.55971875,"end":154.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.93409375000002,"end":164.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.37284375000002,"end":161.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.45721875,"end":161.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.92971875,"end":162.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.03096875,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.19096875000002,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.54909375,"end":198.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.53159375,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.42096875000001,"end":230.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.89784375000002,"end":242.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.82846875,"end":254.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.51096875000002,"end":252.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.55659375000002,"end":261.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.80034375,"end":263.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.01096875,"end":263.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.27659375,"end":266.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.85846875000004,"end":269.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.35159375,"end":275.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.86971875,"end":278.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.35034375000004,"end":310.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.48034375000003,"end":344.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.80096875000004,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.97221875,"end":323.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.76284375,"end":338.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.53846875000005,"end":345.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.63096875,"end":348.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.66846875000005,"end":353.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.03096875,"end":351.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.66346875000005,"end":356.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.43534375,"end":357.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.74721875,"end":359.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.86534375,"end":358.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.22784375000003,"end":366.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.50971875000005,"end":369.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.53471875,"end":368.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.12096875000003,"end":371.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.23909375000005,"end":370.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.92221875,"end":371.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.95596875,"end":371.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.97284375000004,"end":373.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.39471875000004,"end":373.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.57596875,"end":376.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.04846875000004,"end":377.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.33909375,"end":379.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.87471875,"end":381.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.11471875,"end":382.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.97534375000004,"end":383.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.14409375,"end":383.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.24534375,"end":383.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.26221875000005,"end":383.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.29596875000004,"end":386.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.27034375000005,"end":386.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.89034375,"end":397.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.85534375000003,"end":395.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.42034375000003,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.55534375,"end":399.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.88409375000003,"end":407.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.76096875,"end":408.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.42284375,"end":409.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.64221875000004,"end":410.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.81909375000004,"end":414.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.97471875,"end":414.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.97034375000004,"end":417.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.29096875000005,"end":416.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.45096875,"end":417.70409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.179,"end":0.419,"text":"事由 楊偉航議員"},{"start":9.306,"end":37.235,"text":"是部長好明年度中央政府總預算我們的預算達到6470億那麼其中均是投資預算的部分幅度最大大概佔了GDP的2.45%當然國防預算是依照我們考慮防衛的作戰需求跟國家的財政狀況去年底國防安全研究院"},{"start":37.935,"end":54.751,"text":"他進行了一個民調民意調查他說根據民調結果有將近六成贊成未來我們的國防預算提高到GDP的3%請教國防部長達到GDP的3%是我們政府的目標嗎"},{"start":60.741,"end":80.463,"text":"我現在沒有辦法明確的回答是說我們是不是能夠達到3%但是我們當然會希望是你們的目標嗎國防的經費還是能夠持續穩健的增加當然還要整體的財政的裕度對所以這是國防部的智庫所提出那請問這3%是不是我們的目標"},{"start":81.772,"end":84.393,"text":"跟委員報告齁 如果你讓我能夠詳細一點講的話因為114年度我們還有904億的特別預算那115年會降到610"},{"start":95.054,"end":116.016,"text":"六百九十二億那到了一百一十六年的時候這個特別預算沒有了之後呢那如果沒有再編列特別預設的話那麼我們要再增加國防預算的時候年度的預算會大幅的增加那這個時候我們現在已經在在年這個在十五點二左右那如果年度預算再增加的話"},{"start":116.516,"end":135.164,"text":"可能會增加到相當的弧度所以我剛剛有提出來就是說在116年開始我們如果不排擠這個其他的預算還要持續穩健的增加國防預算的話要可能不能夠完全排除說另外提出一個我們認為"},{"start":136.905,"end":159.382,"text":"週延的一個特別預算的可能性那這個時候再希望大院能夠支持但是它一定是要符合我們自我防衛能力提升的一個需要來建置這樣子好換句話說是持續的在增長我們的目標大概是如此不管你的來源116年這個特別預算終止之後你還是希望仍舊有一個"},{"start":161.653,"end":182.679,"text":"持續穩健成長的一個目標這樣子所以本席要請教這個歐布萊恩在6月份的時候他也表示他希望是要提升到5%所以本席要請教剛剛你回答得非常的清楚也就是我們是穩健性的以防衛為基準的來增加"},{"start":183.399,"end":201.811,"text":"那換句話說116年的特別預算到了之後那你也希望未來還是有特別預算的方式來運作所以要請教川普在選舉的時候他提出了要我們叫保護會所以你穩健的成長是不是就是這個保護會的概念"},{"start":204.754,"end":228.401,"text":"我沒有辦法幫這個我們即將就任的川普先生來回答這個合會的保護會但是我想我們就我們的立場就是說我們會有多元的籌購來提升自我防衛能力的這個管道來那這個也當然包括向美國從事軍事採購"},{"start":230.95,"end":253.916,"text":"那充斥軍事採購的這些必要的武器裝備甚至訓練等等都要符合我們作戰的實際需求嗎我只能夠這樣講那我們呢過去我覺得到未來也是如此我們都是根據既有的軍事交流機制然後我們探尋美方的意願我們會探尋那美方覺得OK那才能夠進行採購"},{"start":256.137,"end":271.21,"text":"總歸一句話就是以防衛為基準點到目前回答的方向是如此對然後還要跟美國政府來進行溝通當然所以因此本期要請教來90年以後我們出生的義南在113年開始我們開始回復這個徵集"},{"start":276.534,"end":282.636,"text":"長輩兵役一年所以本席要請教110年我們最高是16.5萬人到112、111你減了將近5000多人各別在這樣的情況之下我們創了新低113年6月底我們降到15.2萬人所以請教部長這也是107年來最低的請教部長"},{"start":304.784,"end":321.322,"text":"面對自願役人數持續地一直遞減的情況（你要怎麼改善（好請再要回答我想分兩點第一點因為我們的現在的預算顏額今年之所以大家一直講說降五千多個事實上並不是真的說一下子"},{"start":323.483,"end":344.409,"text":"是因為過去在預算顏額的部分變得比較高一點所以我們現在務實的編列所以看起來預算顏額但是第二點我們必須承認實際的這個顏額數確實是有降低的一個狀況所以剛剛才會提到就自願意的這個部分我們要調高它的待遇這是我們現在努力的一個方向什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾"},{"start":346.129,"end":357.94,"text":"呃 我 我想 呃 我們會盡快的就 因為提高待遇這是大家的共識嘛你什麼時候可以告訴 告訴社會大眾呃 我 我想我們會盡快啦應該應該 多久時間 你的盡快是多久呃 一個一個時間點嘛"},{"start":360.273,"end":377.644,"text":"我想如果能夠快一點的話我們應該是最近這一個月以內應該是可以一個月內告訴社會大眾包括另外教召的部分很多人到服務處來講一個月內是方向方向一個月內一天內97塊預算還沒有編來教召一天97塊那怎麼辦"},{"start":382.142,"end":382.362,"text":"請說明一下請說明一下"},{"start":399.909,"end":406.737,"text":"就是每日本島98元明年調高到115會有大幅的調整已經編列預算在114年的預算有98調高到115"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":721,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時14分）謝謝主席，邀請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。有關明年度中央政府總預算，我們的預算達到6,470億，其中軍事投資預算部分的幅度最大，大概占GDP的2.45%，當然國防預算是依照我們考慮防衛的作戰需求跟國家的財政狀況。去年底國防安全研究院進行一個民意調查，它說根據民調結果，有將近六成贊成未來我們的國防預算提高到GDP的3%。請教部長，達到GDP的3%是我們政府的目標嗎？請說明。"],["顧部長立雄：我現在沒有辦法明確的回答我們是不是能夠達到3%，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是你們的目標嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我們當然會希望國防經費還是能夠持續穩健的增加，當然還要整體財政的裕度。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：穩健的增加，對，這是國防部的智庫所提出，請問3%是不是我們的目標？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，如果你能夠讓我詳細一點講的話，因為114年度我們還有904億的特別預算，115年會降到692億，到了116年這個特別預算沒有了之後，如果沒有再編列特別預算的話，那麼我們要再增加國防預算的時候，年度的預算就會大幅的增加，我們現在已經占大概15.2%左右，如果年度預算再增加的話，可能會增加到相當的幅度。所以我剛剛有提出來就是116年開始，我們如果不排擠其他的預算，還要持續穩健的增加國防預算的話，可能不能夠完全排除另外提出一個我們認為周延的特別預算的可能性，這個時候希望大院能夠支持，但是它一定是要符合我們自我防衛能力提升的需要來建置。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，換句話說是持續的在增長，你的目標大概是如此，不管你的來源116年特別預算終止之後，你還是希望仍舊有一個特別預算來……"],["顧部長立雄：持續穩健成長的目標。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是部長你的回答。所以本席要請教，歐布萊恩在6月份的時候也表示他希望要提升到5%，所以本席要請教，剛剛你回答得非常清楚，也就是我們是穩健性的以防衛為基準來增加。換句話說116年的特別預算到期之後，你也希望未來還是有特別預算的方式來運作。所以要請教，川普在選舉的時候提出要我們交保護費，所以你的穩健成長是不是就是這個保護費的概念？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有辦法幫即將就任的川普先生回答何謂保護費，但是我想我們的立場就是我們會有多元的籌購來提升自我防衛能力的管道，這個也當然包括向美國從事軍事採購，而從事軍事採購這些必要的武器裝備甚至訓練等等，都要符合我們作戰的實際需求，我只能夠這樣講，我們過去、我覺得到未來也是如此，我們都是根據既有的軍事交流機制探尋美方的意願……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以總歸一句話，還是以防衛為基準點……"],["顧部長立雄：美方覺得OK才能夠進行採購。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，總歸一句話就是以防衛為基準點，到目前回答的方向是如此。"],["顧部長立雄：對，然後還要跟美國政府進行溝通。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，因此本席要請教，94年以後出生的役男在113年開始回復徵集常備兵役，他是1年，110年最高，將近16.5萬人，到112年、111年各別減了將近五千多人，在這樣的情況之下我們創了新低，113年6月底降到15.2萬人，這也是107年以來最低的。所以本席要請教部長，面對志願役人數持續一直遞減的情況，你要怎麼改善？"],["主席：請摘要回答。"],["顧部長立雄：我想分兩點，第一點，因為我們現在的預算員額，今年之所以大家一直講降五千多人，事實上並不是真的一下子去年一年就掉了五千多人……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是降，請問要怎麼改善？"],["顧部長立雄：是因為過去預算員額的部分編得比較高一點，我們現在務實的編列，所以看起來預算員額……但是第二點，我們必須承認實際的員額數確實是有降低的狀況，所以剛剛才會提到……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要如何改善？"],["顧部長立雄：就志願役這個部分，我們要調高他的待遇，這是我們現在努力的一個方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們會儘快，因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：提高待遇這是大家的共識，你什麼時候可以告訴社會大眾？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們會儘快，應該……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間？你的「儘快」是多久？你給一個時間點嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：我想如果能夠快一點的話，我們應該是最近這一個月可以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個月內告訴社會大眾。","另外教召的部分，很多人到服務處來講……"],["主席：一個月內是方向。"],["顧部長立雄：方向、方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個月內。"],["主席：因為預算還沒有編。"],["顧部長立雄：預算還沒有編，對，我們擬議一個方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：教召一天97元，那怎麼辦？要不要改？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛有提到，那個副食費的部分會增加，我們全軍的副食費應該會增加，所以教召的副食費也會……"],["主席：教召比照全軍嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請說明一下。"],["白署長捷隆：就是本島每日98元，明年調高到115元，會大幅調整。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：明年調高到115元？"],["白署長捷隆：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：已經編列在114年的預算？"],["白署長捷隆：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：由98元調高到115元？"],["白署長捷隆：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的關心。","剛才那個待遇要講清楚，我剛聽起來你們是要從中位數去思考調整的方向，方向出來但還沒有編列預算，不能說下個月就有了。"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們只是提出一個擬議的方向而已，這個還要經過行政院，所以我們只是提出一個方向而已。"],["主席：對，是方向……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要有方向出來，才有辦法送……年底會提出來？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們提出一個……是。"],["主席：謝謝，部長請回。","接下來詢答的林思銘委員、林思銘委員，林思銘委員不在。","高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員，高金素梅委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","陳培瑜委員、陳培瑜委員，陳培瑜委員不在。","傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員，傅崐萁委員不在。","今天已登記質詢委員除不在場者外均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。本日會議有林憶君委員、黃仁委員、陳培瑜委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄並刊登公報，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復；委員口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供；與委員另約定期限者從期所定。以上如有涉及機密部分，請確實依相關保密規定辦理。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156817","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156817","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678df3626b1be49429f5158c0789247a306ea236d48226e86be02cda474afd28a485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:07:06 - 12:14:12","影片長度":"00:07:06","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:07:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:14:12+08:00","duration":426,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.21659375000000003,"end":3.4397187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.341593750000001,"end":11.489093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.52721875,"end":23.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.58846875,"end":27.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.60471875,"end":28.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.566593750000003,"end":38.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.91096875,"end":57.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.13159375,"end":59.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.00471875,"end":65.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.34971875000001,"end":71.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.39096875,"end":78.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.34784375000001,"end":82.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.62971875000001,"end":96.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.99471875,"end":97.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.93971875000001,"end":99.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.77909375,"end":101.95596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.07409375,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.50846875,"end":107.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.43596875,"end":115.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":116.18159375,"end":118.22346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.48909375000001,"end":120.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.24409375,"end":122.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.79659375000001,"end":124.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.26034375,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.54659375,"end":134.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.86221875,"end":136.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.07284375,"end":140.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.71346875,"end":152.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.44596875000002,"end":158.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.07846875,"end":156.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.27221875,"end":164.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.54534375,"end":174.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.16846875000002,"end":177.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.40409375000002,"end":184.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.77846875,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.20846875,"end":187.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":188.27159375000002,"end":189.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":189.40221875,"end":191.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.49471875,"end":193.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.39721875,"end":195.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.11846875,"end":198.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.81846875000002,"end":200.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.26971875,"end":201.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.88971875000001,"end":203.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.08346875,"end":204.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.53471875000002,"end":206.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.55971875,"end":209.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.80409375000002,"end":210.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.35659375,"end":212.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.84159375000002,"end":215.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.01409375,"end":218.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.98409375000003,"end":220.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.54909375000003,"end":222.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.39284375000003,"end":227.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.34971875000002,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.59409375,"end":235.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.31471875000003,"end":236.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.49596875,"end":238.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.45346875,"end":243.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.97596875000002,"end":246.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.06409375,"end":250.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.74284375000002,"end":251.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.12659375,"end":254.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.70846875,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.25659375000004,"end":258.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.01159375000003,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.07909375,"end":262.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.50471875,"end":264.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.49159375,"end":274.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.10284375000003,"end":269.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.04346875000005,"end":271.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.05971875,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.45096875,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.71659375,"end":285.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.79221875,"end":286.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.29409375,"end":288.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.28534375000004,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.43284375,"end":291.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.55909375000005,"end":295.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.23784375,"end":297.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.48659375,"end":299.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.59159375,"end":300.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.31721875,"end":302.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.17346875000004,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.39221875000004,"end":308.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.73784375,"end":311.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":311.62784375,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.93534375,"end":316.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.87596875,"end":318.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.85034375000004,"end":321.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.96784375000004,"end":325.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":325.75221875,"end":327.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.82784375,"end":332.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.61596875000004,"end":336.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.44659375000003,"end":338.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.40409375,"end":340.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.51346875,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.82909375,"end":348.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.83721875000003,"end":350.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.65971875,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.35971875,"end":355.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.12284375,"end":358.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.45596875,"end":362.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.47284375000004,"end":359.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.26534375,"end":373.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.20909375,"end":372.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.03596875000005,"end":373.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.86284375,"end":374.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.03159375,"end":374.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.14971875000003,"end":374.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.38596875,"end":374.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.40284375000005,"end":375.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.36034375,"end":379.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.75221875,"end":380.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.49034375,"end":386.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.97471875,"end":388.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.56534375,"end":388.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.69596875,"end":388.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.99971875,"end":397.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.40409375,"end":393.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.97784375000003,"end":394.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.90596875,"end":394.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.97346875000005,"end":395.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.41221875,"end":396.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.69034375,"end":412.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.14596875,"end":403.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.33784375000005,"end":413.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.65409375,"end":413.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.82284375,"end":413.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.97471875,"end":420.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.93159375000005,"end":420.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.75846875,"end":423.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.34471875,"end":425.97284375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.454,"end":22.075,"text":"主席會委員有請部長來部長請部長今年7月18號川普要台灣付保護費而且特別提到要防衛沿在地球另一端的小島實質上很困難"},{"start":23.977,"end":31.787,"text":"我們的川普當選總統這個蔡英文執政的期間就花了這個7552.16億的一個台幣來購買軍購"},{"start":40.317,"end":65.432,"text":"我們看今年的國防部的預算這個編列了4760億4000多萬比113年度增加415億6000多萬這個有成長這個有它的需要性很重要的這個上次我也跟部長提了因為時間的關係沒有辦法好好談這個我也提了很多次"},{"start":66.491,"end":67.552,"text":"自願役施兵．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．"},{"start":84.3,"end":97.088,"text":"這個勞工臺灣的勞工薪資現在基本工資兩千兩萬七千多這個2024一到四月份的平均勞工的平均薪資四萬六千多這個勞動部"},{"start":99.827,"end":121.724,"text":"特別表示部長特別表示這個臺灣薪資的中位數是4.6萬元三分之二約3.1萬所以3.1萬是低薪我們是3萬6比低薪多一些些但是部長你要了解所有的軍人沒有自由"},{"start":122.864,"end":140.718,"text":"都要在軍中跟勞工要這樣比他的各方面的勞苦跟他的自由真的是差很多所以一定要務實的增加國軍志願役的薪資什麼時候可以提高"},{"start":141.975,"end":162.449,"text":"我們現在正在積極的研議我想我們會很快的提出我們一個方案然後再跟行政院相關的單位來做協調一定要積極這個我已經提了很多次你現在要增加也要到明年的預算我剛剛跟其他委員的推詢的時候也已經提過我們正在"},{"start":163.59,"end":165.391,"text":"新資的部分的調高我們國防部本身是贊成的"},{"start":184.824,"end":202.988,"text":"好,要積極地協調行政院好,下一個議題這個是自航機場自航機場我提了很多次自航機場我們的鄉親我們的部落部長可能不知道我們的部落有加魯蘭部落有這個富岡部落"},{"start":208.128,"end":235.214,"text":"有十三部落．．川山部落．．這些部落．．本來都在自航機場裏面．．部長在自航機場裏面．．因為要蓋自航機場．．我們就遷移到旁邊．．遷移到這個自航機場的旁邊．．遷移過去之後．．自航空軍基地有關這個噪音的補助．．噪音的補助．．"},{"start":237.517,"end":241.499,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":265.543,"end":290.985,"text":"本席包括我們召委他也有提案共同的我們共同的在110年1月20號修正通過把噪音管制法有關軍用航空的這個機場能夠用跟民航的一樣可以用補償補償就是用現金的現金來補助"},{"start":293.525,"end":320.871,"text":"這裏面特別授權要定這個辦法國防部在111年1月1號公布施行這個辦法軍用機場噪音防治補償的經費但是問題出在哪裡呢到現在雖然施行了我們這些自航機場周邊的這些最鄰近的部落他還是沒有辦法拿到這些現金原因就是因為"},{"start":323.702,"end":349.762,"text":"這個12條的第一條的第一計劃第12條的第一計劃軍用機場管理單位以本辦法施行或下一個輪次等於是要在一個里一個里在輪啊不是要輪到何時啊所以這個就有問題了這樣的法規啊部長你是寫法律的這樣的法規有問題所以到現在為止啊他們還是領不到"},{"start":350.714,"end":372.979,"text":"也要等幾年以後才有機會要不要修法要修這個辦法 修這個辦法好快阿委員我是志源是市長跟委員報告因為我們這個我們那個補償規定實施之後它其實有兩種選擇一種可以選擇以人為主的現金補償另外一個就是以戶為主的設施補助那我簡單問這三個部落"},{"start":376.414,"end":403.66,"text":"至航機場周邊的三個部落最靠近的噪音最大的什麼時候可以開始領到現金是因為他是以那個生三個集資來做來做補償我看一下好不好因為我那邊剛有兩個基地一個有現金一個沒有現金有處理的方法我覺得方法要跟政經常委員講一下他那個是地方政府要有一個認定那個就是以補償的公平性一個輪次找完之後會到下一個輪次再做討論就是要再"},{"start":405.981,"end":425.811,"text":"．．．．．．．．．"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":696,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時7分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，今年7月18日川普要臺灣付保護費，而且特別提到「要防衛遠在地球另一端的小島實質上很困難」，川普當選了總統。蔡英文執政的期間就花了7,552.16億臺幣購買軍購，我們看今年國防部的預算編列了4,760億4,383萬，比113年度增加415億6,295萬，有成長、有它的需要性。","很重要的、上次我也跟部長提了，因為時間的關係沒有辦法好好談，這個我也提了很多次，志願役士兵大幅下降，我們看這個薪資就是其中的原因之一，二等兵的薪資只有三萬六千多元，臺灣勞工現在的基本工資是兩萬七千多元，2024年1月份到4月份勞工的平均薪資是四萬六千多元，勞動部部長特別表示臺灣薪資的中位數是4.6萬元，其三分之二約3.1萬元，所以3.1萬元是低薪，而我們是三萬六，比低薪多一些些。但是部長你要了解，所有的軍人沒有自由、都要在軍中，跟勞工相比他各方面的勞苦跟自由真的是差很多，所以一定要務實的增加國軍志願役的薪資。什麼時候可以提高？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現在正在積極的研議，我想我們會很快提出方案，然後再跟行政院相關單位來協調。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：一定要積極，這個我已經提了很多次，你現在要增加也要到明年的預算。"],["顧部長立雄：有，我剛剛在其他委員垂詢的時候也已經提過，我們開過數次的會議來討論，因為個別的那些項目加給還滿多種的，所以我們要增加的時候還要有一些平衡的考量。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最好能夠趕快增加、追加預算，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：是，對於志願役薪資部分的調高，我們國防部本身是贊成的。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，要積極的協調行政院。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，下一個議題，這個是志航機場，我提了很多次，涉及我們的鄉親、我們的部落，部長可能不知道，我們的部落有加路蘭部落、有富岡部落、有石山部落（kakawasan 部落），這些部落本來都在志航機場裡面，部長，都在志航機場裡面，因為要蓋志航機場，我們就遷移到志航機場旁邊，遷移過去之後志航空軍基地有關噪音的補助是用輪的，從富豐里到這些里輪流補助，而且補助什麼呢？是相關冷氣機的這些設備，這是過去的一個做法，所以要等30年才能夠輪到！在這樣一個情形之下，大家的冷氣機都已經壞掉了，當然就自己買了，所以完全無法受益。本席包括我們召委他也有提案……"],["主席：我有2個，你只有1個。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們共同在110年1月20日修正通過噪音管制法，讓軍用航空機場能夠跟民航一樣可以用補償，補償就是用現金補助，這裡面特別授權要定這個辦法，國防部在111年1月1日公布施行軍用機場噪音防制補償經費的辦法，但是問題出在哪裡呢？到現在雖然施行了，志航機場周邊這些最鄰近的部落還是沒有辦法拿到這些現金，原因就是因為第十二條的第一句話「軍用機場管理單位於本辦法施行後下一個輪次」，等於是要一個里、一個里輪啊，不知道輪到何時！所以這個是有問題的，部長你是學法律的，這樣的法規有問題，所以到現在為止他們還是領不到，要等幾年以後才有機會。要不要修法？修這個辦法很快啊！"],["鄧司長克雄：委員好，我是資源司司長，跟委員報告，那個補償規定實施之後他其實有兩種選擇，一種是可以選擇以人為主的現金補償，另外一個就是以戶為主的設施補助。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，那我簡單問，志航機場周邊的三個部落，最靠近的、噪音最大的，什麼時候可以開始領到現金？"],["鄧司長克雄：因為它是以三個級次來補償……"],["主席：我看這樣好不好？因為我那邊剛好兩個基地，一個有現金、一個沒有現金，有處理的方法，我覺得方法要跟鄭天財委員講一下，那個是地方政府有一個認定。"],["鄧司長克雄：是。就是補償的公平性，一個輪次補完之後會到下一個輪次再討論。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：召委，他們的做法就是一直輪啊，就是跟上次一樣一個里、一個里輪，輪到下一次，有沒有看到？「施行後下一個輪次」！部長，這個部分你好好了解。"],["主席：鄭委員，這個案子請國防部把辦法訂出來，我跟鄭天財委員一起關心，好不好？謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，要修這個辦法。"],["主席：我知道，把辦法訂出來。謝謝。鄭天財委員請回、各位請回，謝謝。","接下來進行詢答的是楊瓊瓔委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156816","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156816","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667866dc5befdf4d432b9fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be0cd442c3dfdba8065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"12:13:52 - 12:20:33","影片長度":"00:06:41","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:52+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:20:33+08:00","duration":401,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.33471875,"end":0.9590937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.00971875,"end":1.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.177218750000002,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.99971875,"end":11.691593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.84659375,"end":19.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.21346875,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.96846875,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.051593750000002,"end":30.355343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.08096875,"end":34.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.51909375,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.315343750000004,"end":43.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.05784375,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.75596875,"end":59.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.70034375,"end":63.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.11846875,"end":90.36284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.88596875,"end":95.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.83034375000001,"end":97.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.53471875000001,"end":101.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.75346875000001,"end":101.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.58034375000001,"end":102.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.59721875000001,"end":122.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.05846875,"end":124.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.81721875000001,"end":126.57659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.74534375,"end":127.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.55096875,"end":135.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.33534375000002,"end":131.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.80721875,"end":161.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.50346875,"end":173.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.05596875,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.41034375,"end":164.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.40034375000002,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.94784375,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.96659375000002,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.32409375,"end":203.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.03659375,"end":207.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.22221875000002,"end":207.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.55971875,"end":207.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.88034375,"end":207.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.96471875,"end":266.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.77409375,"end":270.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.22971875,"end":267.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.57096875,"end":276.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.24096875000004,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.97284375000004,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.07409375000003,"end":291.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.44096875,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.88659375000003,"end":302.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.90346875,"end":302.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.92034375000003,"end":303.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.08909375,"end":311.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.70471875000004,"end":307.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.45471875000004,"end":316.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.67346875000004,"end":329.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.46471875000003,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.34909375,"end":340.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.02784375000005,"end":370.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.96409375,"end":347.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.43721875,"end":371.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.97284375000004,"end":372.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.73221875,"end":372.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.90096875,"end":372.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.95159375000003,"end":387.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.75096875,"end":392.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.12596875,"end":401.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.99034375,"end":396.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.33596875,"end":397.77471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.387,"end":24.014,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":30.083,"end":52.503,"text":"有那你有知道夜市裡面有很多的趣味遊戲不知道你有沒有玩過該玩的都玩過了打氣球啊、戳戳樂、打彈珠、撈鯨魚那我想這些都是許多人熟悉的一個夜市遊戲那我在小時候的時候也有玩過那長大的時候我也會帶孩子去玩那但是這個過程當中我們開始一些體悟到有些不同的一個感官"},{"start":53.183,"end":55.004,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":78.556,"end":101.491,"text":"其中我也針對第10條第3款提出了一個修改以直接間接賭博娛樂遊戲營業宣傳或其他不當目的進行動物交換與贈與為什麼會做出這樣的修正是因為我們認為現在的樣態把它歸類為賭博跟不當目的我想基本上夜市的遊戲你很難去定義它可以認同嗎"},{"start":102.819,"end":124.152,"text":"我想我們在處理這個部分的時候我們收集了很多外界的意見特別是您剛才講的夜市相關的這些動物的這些行為那他有不同的非常大的不同的聲音所以我們我們基本上支持是說適度的去禁止但是可能要有一些但書有一些弱智的條款你有看過夾娃娃機裡面有放那個活體動物的嗎你有看過嗎夾娃娃機"},{"start":128.881,"end":148.45,"text":"經濟部有明文禁止不能做這樣的行為。很有這樣子的一個案例。這就是因為這樣子我們才關注。對不對。我想再來實際面來說長期以來這些動物的飼養環境你根本不知道是什麼樣的一個狀況。所以小肚子老鼠他們繁殖能力很快也很強但是不用負任何的責任因為這些商人他不會去講究飼養的一個環境。"},{"start":150.191,"end":160.77,"text":"通常這些在夜市看到的小動物他們的環境、飼養狀況是非常的糟糕的所以有的因為擁擠、髒亂甚至缺乏基本的照顧所以你可以看到他們就是病炎炎的你有看過嗎?"},{"start":163.406,"end":180.581,"text":"有看過所以我們根本就不知道他生活條件好或不好對商人而言他們就是可以用用過就丟對他們來說他們就是商品他們就是獎品所以當然會發生有可能的後續不當飼養棄養的一個問題我想因為得到這些獎品的人也不知道準備好了沒"},{"start":181.081,"end":207.723,"text":"我想這些東西都是問題環環相扣所以我昨天看到經濟部今天的一個報告經濟部對於這一條是非常支持的我們感到非常欣慰但是農業部呢剛剛你回答有一點點模糊喔到底農業部支不支持我想基本上我們尊重而且支持但是我剛才說的因為有些條文在我們收集意見的時候有非常多的爭議所以這些爭議可能必須要有一些單數的規定去做一個環境性的處理"},{"start":208.644,"end":234.603,"text":"當然樂於去積極探討啦對於法律這些漏洞我們希望逐條討論的時候能夠積極去解決這些問題把這些漏洞補起來禁止把動物當作獎品落實生命教育我們一起來努力再來我想跟你討論到台灣目前的科學應用機構缺乏專業的獸醫師制度之前農業部我們在民國108年12月有出一個動物福利白皮書在這裡面的第29頁裡面有談到"},{"start":236.784,"end":266.264,"text":"動物科學應用機構之監督管理人待加強。」裡面主要三大重點缺乏一致的管理措施內外查核不嚴謹不專業專業的獸醫師缺乏動物照護管理不足也就是說其實農業部你們自己也知道動物科學應用機構的監督管理是不足的那要如何將專業的獸醫師制度的角色納入到查核過程中農業部目前有沒有具體的一個作為"},{"start":266.784,"end":267.645,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":285.264,"end":300.752,"text":"不,國科會還有一些學術單位已經在研究了,去強化他的審查的一個制度。就是要強化審查嘛,所以這個專業的獸醫師缺乏嘛,那又缺工的一個狀況,到底能不能引進或者是納入一個角色。《動物福利白皮書》這個第29頁你有看過嗎?"},{"start":303.23,"end":329.056,"text":"我忘了我可能看過整份的但是我不知道或許很多啦但不可能就叫哪一頁你一定很清楚但我現在提醒你第29頁你們自己都寫這個都寫出來了所謂的科學應用監督管理人代加強所以我希望本席認為科學應用機構應該要設置獸醫師確保每個科學應用的計畫都有專業的資格的獸醫師來幫忙協助監督可以支持嗎"},{"start":329.636,"end":346.31,"text":"我講我們現在已經在處理就是說整個動物小組裡面特別是在審查一定要有獸醫師參與的部分對包括他的設置的部分那至於說常態的這些獸醫師一定要常態常態的部分我們可能我們要去研因為這牽涉到編織人的緣額的部分但是他有需求"},{"start":346.93,"end":349.832,"text":"修法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":373.027,"end":374.248,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":900,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（12時13分）好，謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長，我們終於要修動保法了，我非常感謝召委排審。部長，我想先請問你一個問題，你有去過夜市嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那你知道夜市裡面有很多的趣味遊戲，不知道你有沒有玩過？"],["陳部長駿季：該玩的都玩過了。"],["羅委員廷瑋：打氣球、戳戳樂、打彈珠、撈金魚，我想這些都是許多人熟悉的夜市遊戲，我在小時候也有玩過，長大後也會帶孩子去玩，但是這個過程當中，我們開始體悟到有一些不同的觀感，在這些遊戲當中，我們可以見到攤販會用活體小動物當贈品來吸引消費者，像是用打彈珠的積分來換取兔子、倉鼠、小動物，甚至兩棲爬蟲類的動物也在其中，這些動物往往成為遊戲中的獎品，大家應該也猜到我要談的是什麼，今天排審的動保法部分條文，我的版本已經送出了，雖然還沒進到委員會，但其中我也針對第十條第三款，針對以直接間接賭博、娛樂、遊戲、營業宣傳或其他不當目的，進行動物交換與贈與提出修正。為什麼我會做這樣的修正？是因為我們認為現在的樣態若歸類為賭博跟不當目的，基本上，夜市的遊戲很難去定義，你可以認同嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們在處理這個部分的時候，蒐集了很多外界的意見，特別是您剛才講的夜市中關於這些動物的相關行為，有非常大的不同聲音，基本上我們支持適度禁止，但是可能要有一些但書，有一些落日的條款，去……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你有看過夾娃娃機裡面有放活體動物的嗎？你有看過嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：經濟部有明文禁止，不能做這樣的行為。"],["羅委員廷瑋：曾有這樣子的案例。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：就是因為這樣子，我們才關注，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再來，就實際面來說，長期以來，這些動物的飼養環境，你根本不知道是什麼樣的狀況，小兔子、老鼠牠們的繁殖能力很強也很快，但是餵養者不用負任何的責任，因為這些商人不會去講究飼養的環境，通常這些在夜市看到的小動物，牠們的環境、飼養狀況是非常糟糕的，有的因為擁擠、髒亂，甚至缺乏基本的照顧，所以你可以看到牠們就是病懨懨的，你有看過嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我看過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有看過？"],["陳部長駿季：有看過。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們根本就不知道牠們的生活條件好或不好，對商人而言，牠們就是可以用，用過就丟，對他們來說牠們就是商品、就是獎品，所以當然有可能會發生後續不當飼養、棄養的問題，因為得到這些獎品的人也不知道準備好了沒，這些都是問題，環環相扣。我昨天看到經濟部的報告，經濟部對於這一條是非常支持的，我們感到非常欣慰，但是農業部呢？剛剛你回答有一點點模糊，到底農業部支不支持？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上我們是尊重而且支持，但是我剛才說的，因為有一些條文在我們收集意見的時候有非常多的爭議，所以這些爭議可能必須要有一些但書的規定去做緩衝性的處理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我們當然樂於積極探討，對於法律這些漏洞，我們希望逐條討論的時候，能夠積極地去解決這些問題，把這些漏洞補起來，禁止把動物當作獎品，落實生命教育，我們一起來努力。","再來，我想跟你討論，臺灣目前的科學應用機構缺乏專業的獸醫師制度，之前農業部在民國108年12月提出動物福利白皮書，在第29頁有談到，動物科學應用機構之監督管理仍待加強，裡面主要有三大重點：缺乏一致的管理措施、內外查核不嚴謹及不專業、專業的獸醫師缺乏、動物照護管理不足。也就是說，其實農業部你們自己也知道，動物科學應用機構的監督管理是不足的，那要如何將專業的獸醫師制度的角色納入查核過程中，農業部目前有沒有具體的作為或規劃？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，目前有關於經濟動物，針對所謂的臨床試驗的動物，我們有三R政策，就是替代、減少跟精緻化，所以在法規還沒有修訂之前，我們已經跟國科會及一些學術單位研究強化審查的制度。"],["羅委員廷瑋：就是要強化審查。所以針對專業的獸醫師缺乏又缺工的狀況，到底能不能引進或是納入一個角色？動物福利白皮書第29頁你有看過嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我可能看過整份的，但是我不知道在哪一頁。"],["羅委員廷瑋：或許很多，不可能指到哪一頁你就一定很清楚，但我現在提醒你，在第29頁，你們自己都把這個寫出來了：科學應用監督管理仍待加強。所以本席認為，科學應用機構應該要設置獸醫師，確保每個科學應用的計畫都有專業資格的獸醫師來幫忙協助監督，可以支持嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在已經在處理，整個動物小組裡面，特別是在審查的階段，一定要有獸醫師參與的部分，包括設置的部分。至於常態的獸醫師……"],["羅委員廷瑋：一定要常態。"],["陳部長駿季：常態的部分我們再去研議，因為這牽涉到編制員額的部分。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是有需求嘛，社會觀感不佳嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：社會也希望能夠有這樣的獸醫師實際參與計畫審查，以及審查後的監督及動物照護，確保研究計畫實驗設計依據核可的內容執行。我們都擔心嘛，沒有必要去造成動物不必要的痛苦，對不對？所以內外部查核不嚴謹、不專業的問題也才可以迎刃而解，這部分農業部可不可以研議看看？"],["陳部長駿季：外部的部分我們已經在做，就是外部監督部分，從計畫的開始跟後面的追蹤，一定有獸醫師參與。至於內部常駐的部分，我們可能要跟每個學校或每個單位討論，因為要配置的話，牽涉到經費的來源和編制的部分，我們回去再協調。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我表達訴求，我很關注，後續我會持續追蹤，有具體的跟進或具體的計畫，請後續補上資料給我，好嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們會來努力。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：請羅智強委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156814","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156814","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678ae84d75f5a090b3f9fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86beaca9bc7b5eabd6695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:06:55 - 12:13:46","影片長度":"00:06:51","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:06:55+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:46+08:00","duration":411,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":1.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.8697187500000005,"end":6.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.06784375,"end":7.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.24909375,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.020343750000002,"end":18.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.91409375,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.06971875,"end":29.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.29221875,"end":45.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.00034375,"end":34.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.16721875,"end":52.360343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.782218750000006,"end":55.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.27971875,"end":84.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.74346875,"end":89.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.94096875000001,"end":99.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.01971875000001,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.57596875,"end":106.37721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.63034375000001,"end":110.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.47784375,"end":116.92409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.32909375000001,"end":122.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.53909375,"end":126.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.04909375000001,"end":127.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.06159375000001,"end":130.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.76159375,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.75721875000002,"end":135.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.14471875,"end":136.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.75221875,"end":139.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.66721875000002,"end":145.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.64534375,"end":152.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.63159375,"end":158.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.26346875000002,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.96784375000001,"end":166.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.26221875000002,"end":171.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.76784375,"end":175.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.39159375,"end":177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.13409375,"end":181.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.24721875,"end":190.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.02221875,"end":191.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.08971875,"end":193.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.67159375,"end":194.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.96221875,"end":196.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.97909375,"end":199.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.32034375,"end":203.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.96534375000002,"end":207.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.74534375000002,"end":211.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.28909375,"end":213.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.95534375000003,"end":224.48534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.16034375,"end":227.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.55659375000002,"end":232.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.15971875000002,"end":229.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.76284375,"end":239.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.19221875000002,"end":237.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.97659375,"end":240.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.09471875000003,"end":247.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.65471875000003,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.86909375000002,"end":261.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.85909375,"end":268.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.96784375000004,"end":273.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.72659375,"end":274.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.35096875,"end":280.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.62846875,"end":285.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.75846875,"end":289.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.87596875,"end":295.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.56284375,"end":297.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.16159375,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.12721875,"end":330.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.62909375000004,"end":332.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.58659375,"end":336.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.99096875000004,"end":338.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.29034375000003,"end":341.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.20534375,"end":342.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.27284375000005,"end":342.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.35721875,"end":343.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.55971875,"end":352.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.75221875,"end":359.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.62034375,"end":362.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.15159375,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":378.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.12409375000004,"end":376.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.34721875,"end":379.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.97159375,"end":382.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.87409375000004,"end":387.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.07159375000003,"end":397.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.34471875,"end":399.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.38659375000003,"end":399.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.95159375000003,"end":400.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.03596875000005,"end":407.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.86284375,"end":401.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.62971875000005,"end":407.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.64659375,"end":409.78971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":27.915,"text":"武中縣委員諮詢。好,我們麻煩部長。請陳部長。好,部長午安。那我先講延續剛剛麥委員的問題,那我們就持續就流浪犬,這個遊蕩犬的部分。因為我看到一個資料,2020年的時候,那時候估計大概全國的數量大概是15萬隻啦。"},{"start":29.275,"end":34.601,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":47.67,"end":49.13,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":67.259,"end":84.167,"text":"如果2020是15萬隻的話到2023年可能到18萬到19萬隻去了那現在我們降待16萬隻的部分表示說我們現在的做法是有一些成效這第一個說明第二個說明說以現在的這樣的一個進度跟現在的方法"},{"start":85.027,"end":102.8,"text":"我必須承認2032年要達到零流浪犬的機會非常非常小但是我們一定會持續的去努力所以我們現在把所有的熱區的部分已經縮小到每一個村裡因為我就覺得最近我看到很多政府的政策都是"},{"start":103.621,"end":105.883,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":123.859,"end":139.305,"text":"當然我可以知道這個很辛苦啦可是總是你預估跟你達到差距很遠或說這個做不到我覺得就不是很妥當啦就民眾而言其實民眾對政府還是希望能夠行的那你知道現在我們保育隊的食譜大概還有多少隻?"},{"start":140.694,"end":145.055,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":161.021,"end":175.739,"text":"我們人工的急救站讓它誕生出來而且有做過相關的這個規避這個犬隻的訓練的這個死虎也放之後大概不到一個月左右就死掉就被攻擊死亡了所以"},{"start":176.34,"end":180.322,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":196.954,"end":204.579,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":226.143,"end":238.38,"text":"15死亡入沙的比例遠比犬隻還高兩雙：那是另外一個原因我懂那是另外一個原因但是我必須講一個就是說如果我們的遊蕩犬沒有管理好的話他會造成其他的問題"},{"start":240.422,"end":261.572,"text":"當然我們也知道為什麼這個遊蕩犬他的數量也降不低其實有一個問題就是民眾會餵食當然這民眾他也是去一個愛心去餵食但是我想說餵食的問題還是要想辦法解決對不對然後包括收容的問題我希望說你們還是能夠提供一個比較有效的方式看要怎麼樣"},{"start":262.898,"end":268.542,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":289.838,"end":293.3,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":309.189,"end":309.969,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":325.857,"end":340.769,"text":"就是畢竟我們是以農立國有什麼方式可以盡速的去給這些農人能夠給他們相關的補償能夠趕快做到尤其宜蘭這次到今天我看那個到昨天新聞都那邊的影響都還蠻劇烈的"},{"start":342.55,"end":371.171,"text":"我兩個回答。第一個部分就是我們天然災害救助的一個補償是用成本的百分之二十去計算。第二個部分就是我在上次颱風到宜蘭的時候我也當場承諾就是說我們在年底的時候會去重新檢討這個天然災害救助金額的合理性因為有一部分的作物已經很久沒調了我們會根據它的種植的成本重新去計算去公布新的一個救助的一個標準"},{"start":371.391,"end":373.494,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":390.934,"end":409.607,"text":"到底這次能夠調整哪些項目,還有進入了多少?您說年底前會有一個結論嗎?對,我們大概11月底就會去做內幕討論。好,那這個可不可以再給我們一下,就對於這些農人您的補助是什麼?對,如果說有初步的這些調整的部分,我想我們第一時間都會跟委員溝通,而且讓委員知道。好好,謝謝部長,謝謝主席。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":877,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（12時7分）好，我們麻煩部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，部長午安。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["吳委員宗憲：延續剛剛麥委員的問題，就流浪犬、遊蕩犬的部分，我看到一個資料，2020年的時候估計全國的數量大概是15萬隻，到2023年的統計是超過16萬。"],["陳部長駿季：大概16萬左右。"],["吳委員宗憲：對。那這樣子的話，數量是在增加，但是我們每年其實有花非常多的錢在做管理，那這個數字怎麼不降反升？更何況農業部在2020年的時候有說，2032年要讓這個數量歸零，但現在反而是增加，我不知道部長有什麼看法？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，當流浪犬在外面的時候，有所謂自然的繁殖率部分跟死亡率部分，以我們現在的模型推估，如果沒有任何處置，2020年是15萬隻，到2023年可能到18萬到19萬隻，現在降在16萬隻，表示我們現在的做法是有一些成效，這是第一個說明。","第二個說明就是，以現在這樣的進度跟現在的方法，我必須承認，2032年要達到零流浪犬的機會非常非常小，但是我們一定會持續地去努力，所以我們現在把所有熱區的部分已經縮小到每一個村里。"],["吳委員宗憲：了解。最近我常常看到很多政府的政策喊出來後，到最後都說做不到，譬如我們太陽能光電的占比、綠能的占比，都是政府喊出來沒有多久後就告訴大家做不到，不然就要延後才能達成，其實民眾不管這個，民眾只是覺得你告訴我幾月幾號、哪一年要做到什麼，但是你每一次都做不到。當然我們可以知道這個很辛苦，可是總是預估跟達到的差距很遠，或是說做不到，我覺得就不是很妥當，就民眾而言，其實民眾對政府還是希望能夠信任。","你知不知道現在保育類的動物石虎大概還有多少隻？我直接跟你說數字好了，2019年到2022年，苗栗有做過統計，大概不到400隻，我手上有一個資料說，現在遊蕩的犬隻很多，之前有一個例子就是有一隻石虎在人工的急救站誕生出來，而且有做過規避犬隻的訓練，這隻石虎野放之後，大概一個月左右就被攻擊死亡了。我們一直希望做保育，讓臺灣的原生種生物能夠繼續繁殖、繁衍下去，但是有時候會不會因為我們對於遊蕩犬的管理不好，反而又去影響到我們希望另外做成的保育計畫？你們有沒有想過這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，在石虎的熱區，生物多樣性研究所一直有持續在監控，包括熱區跟潛勢區的部分，同樣地，針對流浪狗的部分也有做一些套疊，的確誠如委員所說的，在流浪犬跟石虎密度比較高的部分，會造成一些犬隻咬傷石虎的事件，可是以目前我們的統計資料來講，石虎的死亡，路殺的比例遠比犬隻咬傷還高。"],["吳委員宗憲：OK，那是另外一個原因，我懂，那是另外一個原因，但是我必須講，如果遊蕩犬沒有管理好，還會造成其他的問題。當然我們也知道為什麼流浪犬的數量降不下來，其實有一個問題，就是民眾會餵食，當然民眾也是基於愛心去餵食，但是我認為餵食的問題還是要想辦法解決，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["吳委員宗憲：包括收容的問題，我希望你們還是能夠提供一個比較有效的方式，看要怎麼樣去管理民眾餵食的動作。","好，最後我再提一個問題，因為這一次的颱風造成宜蘭很多災情，而且馬上要過年了，我們過年常用到的銀柳、金桔，在宜蘭三星的產量是全國的90%，這些過年都要用到，這一次颱風造成這方面的損害還滿大的，我請教一個問題，這一次員山和礁溪的金桔的農損，7分地的面積，平常大概可以賣出20萬的農產品，但是這一次颱風過後，7分地的農產只能賣出一、兩萬。我們看了一下相關的補助辦法，7分地補助五萬多，等於補助再加上能賣出的，大概只剩下原來收入的四分之一。所以我希望農業部就這個部分也能夠稍微注意一下，畢竟我們是以農立國，有什麼方式可以儘速給這些農人相關的補償？尤其是宜蘭這一次，我看新聞，到昨天那邊的影響都還滿劇烈的。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我兩個回答。第一個部分，我們天然災害救助的補償，是用成本的20%去計算。第二個部分，我在上次颱風到宜蘭勘災的時候，我也當場承諾在年底的時候會重新檢討天然災害救助金額的合理性，因為有一部分的作物的救助標準已經很久沒調了，我們會根據種植的成本重新計算，再公布新的救助標準。"],["吳委員宗憲：好。我剛剛說了，大概算一下，補助加上能賣出的價錢，收入剩下四分之一，那這個會不會有辦法彌補他們的成本，會不會到最後都血本無歸，再麻煩部長注意一下。部長，到底這一次能夠調整哪些項目，還有金額多少，您說年底前會有結論，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：我們大概11月底就會去討論。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，那這個可不可以再給我們？就是對於這些農民的補助。"],["陳部長駿季：如果有初步調整的部分，我們第一時間都會跟委員溝通，而且讓委員知道。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，好，謝謝部長，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156813","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156813","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678fcf8ac810642f2f156f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be0058b4a0f6ef72a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:00:54 - 12:13:29","影片長度":"00:12:35","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:13:29+08:00","duration":755,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.6003437500000002,"end":4.418468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.19471875,"end":7.523468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.45159375,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.071593750000002,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.117843750000002,"end":12.906593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.83034375,"end":15.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.11284375,"end":17.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.42471875,"end":18.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.21784375,"end":48.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.59721875,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.103468750000005,"end":50.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.250968750000006,"end":54.790343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.95909375,"end":58.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.954093750000006,"end":67.41284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.95284375,"end":72.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.66096875000001,"end":73.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.53846875,"end":75.19221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.72784375,"end":89.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.01784375000001,"end":85.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.89909375,"end":88.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.56534375000001,"end":95.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.20159375,"end":100.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.42846875000001,"end":107.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.60909375,"end":107.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.67659375000001,"end":107.69346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.69346875000001,"end":111.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.18221875,"end":114.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.00034375000001,"end":119.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.03346875000001,"end":119.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.48909375000001,"end":119.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.64096875000001,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.16346875,"end":124.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.23096875,"end":128.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.24784375,"end":124.28159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.31534375000001,"end":124.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.65221875,"end":133.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.41096875,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.83221875,"end":138.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.51534375,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.04659375,"end":144.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.44721875000002,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.32034375,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.65346875,"end":147.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.95721875,"end":148.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.93159375000002,"end":152.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.86784375000002,"end":155.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.34409375,"end":220.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.32534375,"end":171.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.70659375000002,"end":187.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.52346875,"end":199.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.06221875,"end":205.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.48409375,"end":206.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.99221875,"end":221.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.88659375,"end":223.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.87346875,"end":225.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.74659375000002,"end":228.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.45096875000002,"end":230.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.66159375,"end":232.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.09159375000002,"end":235.01534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.52159375000002,"end":237.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.20471875,"end":239.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.49971875000003,"end":247.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.19471875000002,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.27471875,"end":249.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.32096875000002,"end":254.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.97846875000002,"end":259.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.47971875,"end":269.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.29659375,"end":272.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.05159375,"end":274.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.32971875000004,"end":277.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.38409375000003,"end":279.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.58221875000004,"end":280.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.99971875,"end":284.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.50971875,"end":287.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.25159375000004,"end":303.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.75971875000005,"end":305.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.78909375,"end":306.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.25721875,"end":331.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.18784375,"end":319.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.89659375,"end":322.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.30534375,"end":323.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.46971875,"end":327.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.24909375000004,"end":334.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.26971875000004,"end":339.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.87659375000004,"end":341.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.35721875,"end":346.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.84159375,"end":349.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.54159375,"end":351.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.00971875000005,"end":353.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.70971875000004,"end":355.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.08909375,"end":357.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.66284375000004,"end":366.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.05409375000005,"end":366.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.79221875,"end":388.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.99034375,"end":368.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.09846875000005,"end":378.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.20659375,"end":391.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.44221875000005,"end":410.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.90346875,"end":425.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.43284375,"end":426.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.22159375,"end":431.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.03096875,"end":438.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.70909375,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.79971875,"end":455.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.38159375000004,"end":460.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.02221875000004,"end":461.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.13159375000004,"end":464.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.32534375,"end":467.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.16034375000004,"end":471.26534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.48471875,"end":481.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.86284375,"end":482.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.17909375000005,"end":484.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.35596875000005,"end":492.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.88721875000005,"end":488.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.10596875000005,"end":493.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.28721875,"end":496.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.26971875000004,"end":503.26034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.01971875000004,"end":505.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.97284375000004,"end":508.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.69409375000004,"end":510.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.20846875,"end":513.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.70159375,"end":517.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.94159375,"end":520.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.55284375,"end":525.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.07534375,"end":527.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.79659375,"end":530.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.67784375,"end":533.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.05721875,"end":535.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.3647187500001,"end":538.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.17034375,"end":542.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.7265937500001,"end":544.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.5490937500001,"end":548.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.82284375,"end":549.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.29096875,"end":552.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.37471875,"end":558.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.54659375,"end":563.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.44909375,"end":575.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.12221875,"end":581.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.30721875,"end":582.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.62346875,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.3740937499999,"end":586.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.9053437499999,"end":589.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.62659375,"end":591.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.8034687500001,"end":594.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.83659375,"end":597.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.8234687500001,"end":601.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.97909375,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.38784375,"end":613.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.26409375,"end":627.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.01284375,"end":634.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.93596875,"end":637.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.6697187500001,"end":638.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.7834687500001,"end":642.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.3272187499999,"end":644.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.9428437500001,"end":653.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.02159375,"end":655.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.0634687500001,"end":658.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.8984687500001,"end":661.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.5434687500001,"end":664.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.87221875,"end":666.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.67784375,"end":667.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.8759687500001,"end":671.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.8078437500001,"end":673.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.2253437500001,"end":674.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.72284375,"end":676.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.25846875,"end":678.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.80659375,"end":694.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.42159375,"end":689.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.4209687500002,"end":692.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.97721875,"end":696.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.0190937500001,"end":701.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.3515937500001,"end":703.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.4822187500001,"end":706.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.3003437500001,"end":706.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.7390937499999,"end":719.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.3372187500001,"end":717.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.15909375,"end":719.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.3784687500001,"end":730.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.83409375,"end":720.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.42034375,"end":724.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.54971875,"end":734.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.98846875,"end":732.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":734.1272187500001,"end":739.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.1440937500001,"end":734.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.7553437500001,"end":743.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.4890937499999,"end":740.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.5434687500001,"end":743.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.9653437500001,"end":745.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.62346875,"end":746.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.6147187500001,"end":750.09096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.836,"end":2.356,"text":"財政部長、檢專部長、合庫金控董事長"},{"start":19.303,"end":34.781,"text":"那個部長其實剛才啊山山委員他講到的貨物稅其實大家都知道貨物稅根本不是一個好稅而且完全不合時宜只是不過這個因為他的稅收實在太多了到明年也有1500億那麼財政部是捨不得這個貨物稅這塊大餅啊"},{"start":39.166,"end":52.931,"text":"不然貨物稅當年就是為了要增加稅收所以才會出現這麼多就是已經不合時宜的相關規定那我為什麼叫金控董事長何苦金控董事長也一起上來我想請問部長和董事長"},{"start":60.017,"end":75.007,"text":"前一陣子引起軒然大波的台灣金聯董事長的任命請問一下部長這位李政章坐了三天就離開台灣金聯的董事長到底是誰任命的"},{"start":76.735,"end":100.288,"text":"跟委員報告對於這個部分台灣金聯是公民營相關金融機構去組成的股權他是誰的代表那他是合庫銀行的股權代表來來我請董事長誰指示您因為呂政章過去跟合庫毫無淵源嘛是誰指示您就是我們合庫代表改派呂政章"},{"start":102.452,"end":123.395,"text":"按照規定這個核定的權是在行政院是在行政院只是核庫法人代表改派李政章是嗎那之前我也有跟李先生聯絡過我知道啊就是你們找他去啊要改派法人代表嘛"},{"start":124.316,"end":138.205,"text":"所以你得來的指令是來自於行政院哪個單位呢部長嗎是我們財政部長還是國庫署還是行政院更高層來董事長我這裡聯繫都是國庫署跟我聯繫那我想請問一下部長這個"},{"start":150.48,"end":170.667,"text":"李政章作為法院代表是來自於哪個單位的指示是你指示的嗎跟委員報告第一個他要去當台灣金聯董事長當然他要必須是股權代表那所以這樣的一個人選是經過討論的以後是跟誰討論所以是財政部討論我想這個討論大家一起討論這個有關他的資歷跟經歷再做一個討論是"},{"start":178.55,"end":206.292,"text":"所以財政部認為他的學經歷背景通通足以擔任台灣經聯嗎?一個公司他有公司治理的一個規則是不是嗎?我現在就是要找你願意擔我就讓你擔啊對啊我覺得他應該在資格上是符合而且大家也期待有關的事業機構能夠有新的一些成為所以這個人選是由您決定嗎?我想最後的核定當然是行政院核定還是行政院對不對?是行政院核定那請問一下"},{"start":207.332,"end":223.801,"text":"這個人是因為現在外傳很多連卓龍泰院長都認為這個人選是不OK的所以現在傳出事實上是來自於總統府秘書長潘孟安秘書長的指示跟要求確實如此嗎這個傳言我並不清楚所以你也無法證實是我們無法證實"},{"start":233.157,"end":253.547,"text":"台灣今年董事長短短三天就離開我們來看一下前董事長施敬渝說為什麼他突然被罰官是因為他擋人財路所以他被撤職那麼這個呂政章坐了三天就離開的董事長呢"},{"start":255.031,"end":268.809,"text":"他說因為現在外傳是因為大老闆就是我們賴清德總統震怒所以我剛剛講說如果你要擔你就去擔喔我覺得這件事情總是要有人把責任擔起來的李建昌到底是從哪裡從天上掉下來的禮物嗎"},{"start":271.36,"end":286.927,"text":"然後搞到整個高層人事大亂整個政府的威信被破壞走人就了事了嗎好 呂政章在離開台灣經典說有人怕我上任掀太多問題"},{"start":289.581,"end":302.917,"text":"請問一下部長台灣今年有什麼問題他說有人怕他掀太多問題一個說我離開是擋人財路一個說我離開是有人怕我掀太多問題台灣今年到底有什麼問題啊"},{"start":304.799,"end":322.494,"text":"部長跟委員報告個人他的辭呈他已經寫得很清楚他為了避免行政團隊一些困擾他辭職這我們尊重他那至於他們個人這說了什麼話我覺得這個東西這個不必去再做過多的一些參與這什麼叫做不必再做過多的公私的辭職台灣今年董事長三天就離開然後你們覺得不用再多說了離開就離開"},{"start":332.302,"end":346.476,"text":"你們把高層人士當成兒戲嗎在座這麼多位的我們國營金控的董事長、總經理每一個都要被檢視啊是不是今天突然憑空而降出來的一個造成這麼大的問題三天就離開該不該有人負責啊"},{"start":357.328,"end":383.314,"text":"委員報告他都還沒有就任他就任三天所謂的問題我不知道是什麼樣的一個問題是在哪裡因為他還沒有去他只有三天而已特別跟部長說公司有公司治理的一個規則對不對土地的處分他是一個非常專業估價要經過三家估價公司的一個評估他不是說隨便可以那請問一下施進群又不是我當董事長是施進群當董事長那麼多年他說哎呀不要賤賣國土"},{"start":386.095,"end":402.751,"text":"所以我在這邊要特別提醒因為我們新任董事長不知道什麼時候才在發布啦但是呢台灣今年因為他擁有非常非常多的土地過去就曾經被媒體質疑我也曾經質詢過台灣今年不要成為一個草作地皮的幫兇"},{"start":408.596,"end":430.307,"text":"因為過去在南部都有指控台灣今年有養地的問題有炒作土地的問題那個是在施俊吉擔任董事長任內然後這次子子這個跟那個工業區雲林的工業區有相關所以我要求的是我們所有的金控公司大家都擁有這麼多的資產"},{"start":433.25,"end":438.177,"text":"台灣金聯當年是為了要去解決我們金融機構的不良資產"},{"start":439.978,"end":459.805,"text":"結果輪給呂正章家族就是製造不良資產的所以部長你怎麼還會在這邊講說他其實是有資格的檢視過他的背景如果你檢視過他的背景家族就是製造不良資產的然後你讓他去處理我們所有金融機構的不良資產像話嗎太丟臉了"},{"start":465.336,"end":484.321,"text":"他的家族是他的父親跟他弟弟你知不知道這個公司他是大股東啊你知不知道他這個公司他控股他自己當任董事長就是這家跳票倒閉製造不良資產的大股東啊你知道嗎你不知道您說是哪一家大股東"},{"start":485.427,"end":504.772,"text":"就是若活輕鬆公司啊造成農業金庫5000萬的呆帳對 是農業金庫沒錯農業金庫5000萬呆帳這家公司他說他是他爸爸說是他的什麼弟弟可是他自己本身是這家公司的大股東你們有查過嗎丟臉吶怎麼會如此兒喜所以不知道你難道不知道嗎他本來要去農業金庫欸"},{"start":514.77,"end":527.133,"text":"他本來是要去安插到農業金庫欸農業金庫的這些農漁會代表們覺得怎麼可能這樣造成我們這家農業金庫幾千萬呆帳的家族竟然來這邊來當董事長後來還好那個黨下來了如果到農業金庫更丟臉所以部長啊我知道這樣的人士啊絕對來自於高層啊"},{"start":543.769,"end":552.234,"text":"但是拜託今天既然不管國庫署也好部長也好今天的我們核庫監控也好你們能不能做最後一點點的把關的工作能不能啊當然我們會做"},{"start":564.482,"end":574.886,"text":"我這邊講這個李政章的問題是我之前就已經都提供過包含農業金庫當選人家農業金庫至少人家還知道把它擋出去耶結果沒想到竟然找來找去找到我們台灣金聯了還真會找耶有關係就沒關係嗎今天我們有多少"},{"start":587.95,"end":602.667,"text":"有金融背景出生於基層的就是真的戰戰兢兢的在我們這些公營行庫來幫助守住最後一道防線的情何以堪"},{"start":605.441,"end":625.959,"text":"所以老實講我今天花了我很多時間我其實還要問很多的問題可是我覺得這件事情因為我自己以前就是跑金融我覺得過去歷任不管是民進黨執政、國民黨執政還真的沒有出現這麼醜的事情過去醜有很多我也提出過很多但是還沒有發生過這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":629.059,"end":651.51,"text":"你這樣子的話老實講我們這次在處理預算問題我本來還要再問包括我們在抽獎出包的問題這也是財政部國庫局啊那個國稅局然後那個四個重複中獎對不起主席我花一點那個四個重複中獎你們反正都說沒問題沒問題"},{"start":654.079,"end":677.996,"text":"然後另外你們一個活動十幾個都是姓彭的出現龐大的彭家軍得獎部隊你們有回復嗎?你們有對外說明嗎?然後現在搞到現在說哎呀現在中獎不公告了用私訊來通知得獎人做得真好黑箱到底"},{"start":679.753,"end":701.568,"text":"委員沒有所謂的黑箱那至於這家公司它的撰寫邏輯、撰寫程式的邏輯是不是有問題已經跟中獎者之間的關係我們已經移請調查局我們是主動請調查局來偵查另外我有一個要求你們說以後呢中獎通知用私訊通知中獎人不再公告"},{"start":702.469,"end":714.998,"text":"不可以必須公告以遭公信我們一定會秉著誠信公開公平的原則一定會照這樣做所以不能再用私訊來通知要公告"},{"start":721.503,"end":745.303,"text":"哪裏說就不公告了讓你們看不到為了怕這些得獎者他不知道我們另外再通知他還是會公告的是一個臉書的通知的方式所以你們去通知是另外一回事但是你一定要公告這個文字有公告是大家沒有看到誤解了謝謝委員謝謝洪薇接著請羅民財委員花言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1194,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時1分）謝謝主席，請財政部長及合庫金控董事長。"],["主席：請莊部長及合庫金控董事長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長好。部長，剛才珊珊委員講到的貨物稅，其實大家都知道貨物稅根本不是一個好稅，而且完全不合時宜，只是因為它的稅收實在太多了，到明年有1,500億元，財政部是捨不得貨物稅這塊大餅，當年貨物稅就是為了要增加稅收，才會出現這麼多已經不合時宜的相關規定。","為什麼我會請合庫金控董事長也一起上台，因為我想請問部長及董事長，關於前一陣子引起軒然大波的台灣金聯董事長任命案。請問部長，這位呂政璋做了3天就離開台灣金聯董事長的職務，到底是誰任命的？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，台灣金聯是公民營相關金融機構組成……"],["王委員鴻薇：他是誰的代表？"],["莊部長翠雲：他是合庫銀行的股權代表。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問董事長，是誰指示你？因為呂政璋過去與合庫毫無淵源，是誰指示你將合庫代表改派呂政璋？"],["林董事長衍茂：按照規定，這個核定權在行政院。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以是行政院指示合庫法人代表改派呂政璋，是嗎？"],["林董事長衍茂：之前我也與呂先生聯絡過，我也有請呂……"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道啊！就是你們找他去啊！改派法人代表嘛！"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你接到的指令是來自於行政院，哪個單位呢？部長嗎？是財政部長或是國庫署或是行政院更高層，董事長？"],["林董事長衍茂：都是國庫署與我聯繫。"],["王委員鴻薇：國庫署？"],["林董事長衍茂：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我想請問部長，讓呂政璋擔任法人代表是來自於哪個單位的指示？是你指示的嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，第一個，他要擔任台灣金聯董事長當然必須是股權代表，所以這樣的人選是經過討論之後，認為他的資歷……"],["王委員鴻薇：是與誰討論？所以是財政部的討論？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想大家就他的資歷及經歷都要做一個討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以財政部認為他的學經歷背景通通足以擔任台灣金聯董事長嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：一個公司有公司治理的規則……"],["王委員鴻薇：是不是嘛？我現在就是要找，既然你願意擔，我就讓你擔啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊！我覺得他在資格上應該是符合的，而且大家也期待有關的事業機構能夠有新的思維及創新的作為。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這個人選是由你決定嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想最後當然是由行政院核定。"],["王委員鴻薇：還是行政院，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，是行政院核定。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問一下，現在外面的傳聞很多，連卓榮泰院長都認為這個人選並不OK，因此現在傳出是來自於總統府潘孟安秘書長的指示及要求，確實是如此嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我對這個傳聞並不清楚。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你也無法證實？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們無法證實。"],["王委員鴻薇：台灣金聯董事長短短3天就離職，我們來看一下，前董事長施俊吉說他突然被拔官是因為擋人財路，所以他被撤職。這位做了3天就離開的呂政璋董事長，現在外傳是因為大老闆，也就是賴清德總統震怒，所以剛剛我說如果你要擔就去擔喔！我覺得這件事情總是要有人將責任擔起來，難道呂政璋是從天上掉下來的禮物嗎？然後搞到整個高層人士大亂、整個政府的威信被破壞，走人就了事了嗎？呂政璋離開台灣金聯時說有人怕他上任後掀太多問題，請問部長，台灣金聯有什麼問題，他說有人怕他掀太多問題？一個說自己離開是因為擋人財路、一個說自己離開是有人怕他掀太多問題，台灣金聯到底有什麼問題啊？部長？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，他個人的辭呈已經寫得很清楚，為了避免行政團隊的一些困擾才辭職，所以我們尊重他，至於他個人說了什麼話，我覺得不必再做過多的揣測。"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼叫做不必再做過多的解釋？台灣金聯的董事長耶！"],["莊部長翠雲：公司的治理有它的內稽內控。"],["王委員鴻薇：3天就離開，你們覺得不用再多說了，離開就離開，你們把高層人士當作兒戲嗎？在座這麼多位國營金控的董事長及總經理，每一位都要被檢視啊！是不是？今天突然憑空而降，造成這麼大的問題，3天就離開，該不該有人負責啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，他都還沒有就任，而且就任3天，所謂的問題，我不知道是什麼樣的問題，而且問題在哪裡？他也只有沾邊而已。"],["王委員鴻薇：我在此要特別告訴部長……"],["莊部長翠雲：公司有公司治理的規則，對不對？土地的處分是非常的專業，估價要經過3家估價公司的評估，並不是隨便就可以處理的事。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問一下，又不是我當董事長，而是施俊吉擔任了那麼多年的董事長，他說不要賤賣國土，所以我在這邊要特別提醒，因為新任董事長不知道何時會再發布，但是台灣金聯擁有非常多的土地，過去就曾經被媒體質疑，而且我也曾經質詢過，台灣金聯不要成為一個炒作地皮的幫兇。過去在南部都曾指控台灣金聯有養地的問題、有炒作土地的問題，那個是在施俊吉擔任董事長的任內，然而這次是直指與雲林工業區相關，因此我要求所有的金控公司，大家都擁有這麼多的資產，而台灣金聯當年是為了要解決金融機構的不良資產，結果呂政璋的家族就是製造不良資產的，部長，你怎麼會在這裡說他其實是有資格的，檢視過他的背景嗎？如果你檢視過他的背景，家族就是製造不良資產的，你還讓他去處理我們所有金融機構的不良資產，像話嗎？太丟臉了！"],["莊部長翠雲：他的家族是他的父親與他的弟弟，並不是他本人。"],["王委員鴻薇：你知不知道他是這個公司的大股東？你知不知道他在這個公司控股，自己擔任董事長？他就是這家跳票倒閉製造不良資產的大股東啊！你知道嗎？你不知道！"],["莊部長翠雲：你說是哪家的大股東？"],["王委員鴻薇：就是樂活輕鬆購公司啊！造成農業金庫5,000萬的呆帳。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，是農業金庫。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯！農業金庫5,000萬的呆帳。他說這家公司是他爸爸的、說是他弟弟的，但他本身就是這家公司的大股東，你們有查過嗎？丟臉啊！怎麼會如此兒戲！難道你不知道嗎？他本來要去農業金庫耶！他本來是要安插到農業金庫耶！農業金庫的這些農漁會代表們覺得怎麼可能這樣，造成這家農業金庫幾千萬呆帳的家族，竟然要被安插到這邊擔任董事長，還好後來被擋下來了。如果是去農業金庫，那就更丟臉了。部長，我知道這樣的人事絕對來自於高層，但是我要拜託，不管是國庫署也好，部長也好，或是合庫金控也好，你們能不能做最後一點點的把關工作？能不能啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然我們會做。"],["王委員鴻薇：呂政彰的問題是我之前就都已經提供過了，包含農業金庫，但是人家農業金庫至少還知道把他擋出去，結果沒想到找來找去竟然找到台灣金聯，還真會找欸，有關係就沒關係嗎？今天有多少有金融背景而出身於基層的人戰戰兢兢在公營行庫幫助守住最後一道防線，他們情何以堪？老實講我今天花了很多時間，我其實還要問很多問題，可是我覺得這件事情，因為我自己以前就是跑金融，我覺得過去歷任不管是民進黨執政或是國民黨執政，還真的沒有出現這麼醜的事情耶！過去酬庸很多，我也提出過很多，但是還沒有發生過這樣的狀況。你這樣子的話，老實講，我們這次在處理預算問題，我本來還要問及抽獎出包的問題，這也是財政部國稅局啊！對不起，主席，我花一點時間講一下，四個人重複中獎，你們反正都說沒問題、沒問題；另外你們有一個活動，十幾個都是姓彭的，出現龐大的彭家軍得獎部隊，你們有回復嗎？你們有對外說明嗎？然後搞到現在說中獎不公告了，用私訊來通知得獎人，做得真好，黑箱到底！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，沒有所謂的黑箱。至於這家公司撰寫程式的邏輯是不是有問題……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們有沒有移送？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們已經移請調查局了，我們是主動請調查局來偵查。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們有移送檢調？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：另外我有一個要求，你們說以後中獎是用私訊通知中獎人，不再公告，不可以，必須公告以昭公信。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我跟委員報告，我們一定會秉著誠信、公開、公平的原則，一定會照這樣做，臺北國稅局這樣的貼文，我覺得要再處理……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以不能再用私訊通知，要公告！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["吳局長蓮英：本來是有公告……"],["王委員鴻薇：哪裡？哪裡說就不公告了？讓你們看不到……"],["吳局長蓮英：為了怕這些得獎者不知道，我們另外再通知他，是以臉書通知的方式。"],["莊部長翠雲：還是會公告啦！"],["王委員鴻薇：好，你們去通知是另外一回事，但是你們一定要公告，好不好？"],["吳局長蓮英：那個文字有公告，可能大家沒有看到誤解了。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。","接著請羅明才委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156810","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156810","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678c317108c7d723f639fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86bec103fba9c3d2f6a55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"12:00:24 - 12:06:49","影片長度":"00:06:25","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:06:49+08:00","duration":385,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":2.4778437500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.76846875,"end":6.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.505968750000001,"end":13.395968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.63221875,"end":14.324093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.47909375,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.44096875,"end":23.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.70659375,"end":24.465968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.07346875,"end":37.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.23159375,"end":39.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.26534375,"end":39.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.58596875,"end":39.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.923468750000005,"end":42.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.05784375,"end":47.939093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.31034375,"end":66.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.54659375,"end":49.322843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.20034375,"end":50.554718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.12596875,"end":88.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.29971875000001,"end":96.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.31534375000001,"end":99.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.91846875,"end":105.51659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.89221875000001,"end":124.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.55159375000001,"end":182.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.49596875,"end":130.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.04034375,"end":186.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.30971875,"end":190.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.52034375000002,"end":202.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.48034375,"end":205.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.23971875,"end":203.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.39971875,"end":213.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.56346875000003,"end":214.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.32659375,"end":230.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.98221875000002,"end":238.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.37346875000003,"end":254.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.24846875000003,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.82909375,"end":274.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.30034375,"end":274.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.22846875,"end":319.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.57596875,"end":349.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.10284375000003,"end":350.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.28409375,"end":352.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.66784375000003,"end":355.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.73909375,"end":357.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.96659375,"end":366.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.60659375,"end":385.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.84284375000004,"end":368.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.02784375000005,"end":373.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.20284375,"end":385.62471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.273,"end":1.354,"text":"請麥毓正委員質詢。謝謝主席。有請部長。請陳部長。委員長。"},{"start":22.438,"end":41.886,"text":"部長好,我要跟你請教一下,我們11月7日和行政院長見面,我們是不是要求你為農民的需求邊滿邊足,你說是不是?你只要回是不是我們要求?"},{"start":44.093,"end":49.096,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":67.208,"end":70.049,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":89.529,"end":110.735,"text":"我想羊奶本身它不像牛奶那麼普遍性然後它現在有它自己的通路那我們當初在考慮就是被影響嘛有通路但是上家因為我們推廣就是斑斑有些奶是他們有被影響因為現在目前羊乳進到學校的比例其實並不高不過"},{"start":111.275,"end":138.333,"text":"我想我們在推動牛奶的部分我們也不會放棄到羊奶的部分所以羊奶的部分其實我們在思考從綠色照護的角度去協助他們進到我們的綠色照護的供應系統希望我們部長這邊有協助因為這個是他們的反應再來就是請教我們的部長斑斑有鮮奶現在就是很多的亂象就是中華民國羊羊協會有監獄"},{"start":140.374,"end":141.535,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":156.007,"end":159.59,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":183.346,"end":201.551,"text":"我跟委員報告我們現在正在規劃下學期以後的這些對所以說我最不想聽的就是在規劃中演繹中討論中所以我們希望就是要求我們是有一個具體的計劃幫助到他們才是真正的解決問題"},{"start":202.711,"end":211.619,"text":"一個非常重要的就是我們未來的一個對所以這個部分我希望就是我們農業部要提出一個計畫具體的計畫我們希望有這樣的具體的計畫我們會提出來適當的方法還有針對就是我們農業部這邊就是動保師長在11月10日在那個野生動物"},{"start":225.151,"end":231.115,"text":"而走的遊行之實中有提到就是張英帝之遺制定流浪動物的策略收容所容量已經到達八成了大多數就是別人放生才被郊區的民眾領養但是而長期滯留這個的話就形成我們推動林普沙政策形成的矛盾所以我們提到的就是"},{"start":255.311,"end":268.62,"text":"公知源頭是施主的責任但偏遠的地區很多施主採用放生方式來去養我們的狗狗多數為進行決議還有根據我們的相信我們的"},{"start":275.145,"end":277.126,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":296.48,"end":298.782,"text":"修委員有說嘛,浪浪滿天飛。我們如果沒有愛心的人去幫忙收留的話,我們農業部這邊如何去協助他們。所以我們希望這個部分,我們農業部要來跟我們的團體,我們的動保團體,他們不只免費提供給他們打疫苗,"},{"start":319.696,"end":321.737,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":350.097,"end":353.023,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":355.762,"end":360.845,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":385.742,"end":385.862,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":852,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（12時）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["麥委員玉珍：部長好。我要跟你請教一下，我們11月7日和行政院長見面，是不是要求你為農民的需求編滿編足？你說是不是？你只要回是不是我們要求。"],["陳部長駿季：我們盡量編，可能沒有辦法編滿，因為……"],["麥委員玉珍：這是我們要求嘛，是不是？有這樣的要求嘛。所以拜託你不要去外面跟農民說我們擋你的預算，這個是我們要求你編的，沒有擋。","好，再請教部長，「班班有鮮奶」政策實施後，據報導，羊乳產業已經有兩家出貨量下降約一成，部分業者被迫向牧場減收，導致羊農不得不報廢羊奶。針對羊奶牧場的狀況，我們農業部有什麼具體的措施嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：羊奶本身不像牛奶那麼普遍，現在羊奶有自己的通路，我們當初在考慮……"],["麥委員玉珍：就是被影響，雖然有通路，但事實上因為我們推廣「班班有鮮奶」，是不是他們有被影響？"],["陳部長駿季：因為目前羊乳進到學校的比例其實並不高，不過我想我們在推動牛奶的部分，也不會放棄羊奶的部分，所以羊奶的部分，其實我們在思考從綠色照護的角度去協助他們進到我們綠色照護的供應系統。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，希望部長這邊能有協助，因為這是他們的反映。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：再來請教部長，「班班有鮮奶」現在就是有很多亂象，中華民國養羊協會建議，農業部過往就是有農遊券的模式，如果用來推行鮮乳券，家長可以透過app或網站登記後在農漁會兌換，讓我們的兒童可以有選擇牛奶、羊奶或豆漿等項目的自由，又新鮮，又不會浪費資源，政府在喊口號要支持農產業的永續發展，請教我們的部長，有什麼計畫協助我們的養羊跟養牛的牧場，讓他們可以永續發展？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，我們現在正在規劃下學期以後這些牛奶的供應……"],["麥委員玉珍：我最不想聽的就是在規劃中、研議中、討論中，我們要求有一個具體的計畫幫助到他們，才是真正的解決問題。"],["陳部長駿季：一個非常重要的就是我們未來的一個規劃……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，所以這個部分，我希望農業部要提出一個具體的計畫，我們希望有這樣具體的計畫。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會提，我們會提出來最適當的方法。"],["麥委員玉珍：好。還有，針對農業部動保司長在11月10日「為野生動物而走」的遊行中有提到，將「因地制宜」制定流浪動物的策略，然而收容所容量已經到達八成，大多數犬隻因為被人放生，才被郊區的民眾領養而長期滯留，這個就和我們推動零撲殺政策形成了矛盾，所以你們提到控制源頭是飼主的責任，但偏遠的地區很多飼主採用放生方式養狗，且多數未進行絕育。根據相關團體的查訪，不少飼主因為不懂法律，所以沒有帶狗狗去結紮，對於飼主因不知情而造成這樣的行為，如果開罰的話，對山區的民眾很不公平。剛才邱委員也有說到「浪浪滿天飛」，如果有愛心人士去幫忙收留，農業部這邊要如何協助他們？我們希望針對這個部分，農業部可以跟動保團體合作，他們不只免費提供疫苗給牠們施打，還有要怎麼樣去注射疫苗或者除蚤等等，所以針對這個部分，我們希望農業部要跟動保團體合作，去協助他們，跟他們一樣，他們是免費幫忙，所以我們希望農業部要有一個措施來幫忙，不是只有研議中、討論中、規劃中，我們覺得這個聽太多了。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，所有的流浪犬的處理，其實最重要的是因地制宜，所以現在中央跟地方政府其實已經在密切地合作，包括跟一些NGO團體，跟在地的居民一起來合作，成立一個團隊去處理。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們希望農業部在這邊講要做得到，要落實，不要只是在這邊講而已。"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在已經在做，我們現在已經在做了。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，如果有具體的計畫，可以送到我們的辦公室，另外，也要對郊區居民宣導正確的觀念。謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請吳宗憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156809","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156809","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678b3719b1377c22e4a5158c0789247a306ea236d48226e86be5e42fc9f2fe0e8b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:59:40 - 12:06:49","影片長度":"00:07:09","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:59:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:06:49+08:00","duration":429,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":1.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.83221875,"end":3.3215937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.396593750000001,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.341593750000001,"end":10.425968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.425968750000003,"end":10.442843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.785968750000002,"end":31.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.722218750000003,"end":32.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.02159375,"end":34.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.16471875,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.79721875,"end":37.814093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.11784375,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.15159375,"end":38.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.46784375,"end":40.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.17221875,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.977218750000006,"end":63.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.96596875,"end":86.36346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.17346875000001,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.85971875,"end":97.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.45034375,"end":116.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.82284375,"end":120.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.26534375000001,"end":132.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.52909375000002,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.89596875,"end":139.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.09784375,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.82346875000002,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.76846875,"end":140.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.94971875000002,"end":142.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.89471875,"end":143.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.83971875,"end":165.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.72534375,"end":148.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.42846875,"end":156.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.91221875000002,"end":166.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.11471875,"end":166.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.65471875,"end":166.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.68846875,"end":166.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.73909375000002,"end":166.75596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.75596875000002,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.78971875000002,"end":166.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.80659375000002,"end":184.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.57159375,"end":188.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.65971875000002,"end":191.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.78159375,"end":194.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.46471875,"end":195.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.86534375000002,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.29971875,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.76784375000003,"end":202.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.37909375,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.79159375,"end":214.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.66409375,"end":220.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.73909375000002,"end":227.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.60721875000002,"end":231.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.68659375000001,"end":235.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.90971875000002,"end":243.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.75659375,"end":245.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.01346875000002,"end":247.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.06409375,"end":247.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.08096875,"end":248.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.35096875000002,"end":256.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.42659375000002,"end":249.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.96971875,"end":264.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.73221875,"end":265.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.68971875,"end":267.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.59659375,"end":279.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.95096875,"end":269.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.44034375,"end":269.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.02096875,"end":288.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.26846875,"end":290.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.95596875,"end":292.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.96409375,"end":296.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.89596875,"end":297.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.58346875,"end":301.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.11034375,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.03784375000004,"end":307.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.57784375,"end":307.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.86471875,"end":307.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.93221875,"end":307.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.96596875,"end":309.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.90659375,"end":309.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.42971875,"end":312.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.06221875,"end":330.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.13534375,"end":332.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.63721875000005,"end":334.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.23596875000004,"end":339.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.06221875,"end":340.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.36159375,"end":376.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.95096875,"end":382.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.51971875000004,"end":389.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.78034375000004,"end":389.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.03346875,"end":389.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.02909375,"end":390.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.06284375,"end":390.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.14721875000004,"end":390.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.16409375,"end":390.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.41721875,"end":392.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.49284375,"end":392.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.93159375000005,"end":392.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.94846875,"end":393.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.06659375000004,"end":393.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.23534375,"end":393.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.26909375,"end":393.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.31971875000005,"end":393.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.33659375,"end":394.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.28159375,"end":397.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.99409375000005,"end":401.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.39846875,"end":404.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.44909375000003,"end":402.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.25909375000003,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.55846875000003,"end":404.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.57534375,"end":404.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.59221875000003,"end":404.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.60909375,"end":405.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.65971875,"end":404.98034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.16596875000005,"end":405.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.23346875000004,"end":405.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.25034375,"end":405.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.52034375000005,"end":417.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.53721875,"end":405.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.64221875000004,"end":409.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.32534375,"end":424.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.97409375,"end":418.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.02471875000003,"end":418.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.52159375,"end":426.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.31034375,"end":428.23409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":26.663,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請顧部長幫你請部長好部長延續我們今天一整天的討論其實這一個150億美元的一個軍售大家都關心那你剛剛一直回答一件事情就是說應該是依照台美綿密的交流以及過去既有的不管是採購的流程採購的機制對不對"},{"start":28.854,"end":40.147,"text":"那如果說真的如同您這樣講的話那國內用三大報平面報導頭版頭來處理這件事情會不會就覺得突兀跟奇怪"},{"start":41.386,"end":61.484,"text":"對我並不知道這個financial time它的消息來源是怎麼樣部長我先跟你討論的更是一個比較核心的問題啊因為第一國內會大家引發這樣關注其實financial time我想會去看的人不多但是為什麼會突然間大家大量的關注是因為隔一天之後三大報頭版頭處理這個新聞"},{"start":65.014,"end":86.222,"text":"我請教三大報頭版頭處理這個新聞如果說只有單純一個報紙可能他是獨家但是三大報全部都用頭版頭處理這個新聞的時候代表是他們某種程度上第一是有權威的消息來源不然的話就是他們可能有經過查證或是經過求證認為說這個是消息是屬實的程度高所以他們會去處理嘛"},{"start":87.773,"end":115.913,"text":"國防部在三大報頭版頭出來的前一天我們相關對於媒體的公關或說相關的這些回應有沒有做出什麼樣的回應我想因為我們對於這樣子不是我們現在所提出來的據我的了解我們沒有這樣子的一個清單提出的情況之下我想我們國防部的立法部長您也是看到三大報昨天頭版頭之後你才知道有這件事"},{"start":116.86,"end":140.652,"text":"我至少我們國防部沒有提出這樣的一個清單是啊 所以我的意思是說你沒有提出這個清單然後結果你身為一個國防部部長你是在昨天上午早上起床的時候看到三大報頭版頭你才知道我們有提出這個清單然後你才去問然後才去追源頭然後發覺說到今天發覺國防部上到下都沒有講過這樣的事情"},{"start":142.02,"end":169.426,"text":"我們因為Final Time的意思就是說我們很不合理你會不會覺得現階段有提出去但我們現在已經也曾經說明我想總統也曾經說明了我們現階段並沒有提出這樣子的一個清單給美國或者是未來的川普政府那我一直在強調就是我們循既有的機制會跟美方就任何採購的項目會進行事先的溝通部長這些我都尊重而且我們其實不分黨派委員大家都講嘛"},{"start":170.086,"end":196.186,"text":"能夠獲得我國要的國防武器設備先進的我們絕對都支持但是現在的問題點在於是說如果如同你在國會殿堂裡面所答詢的這樣的狀況的話那我覺得這會產生一個很大的資訊落差一個是國內的三大報我想國內三大報他們不會拿他們的媒體的公信力去做"},{"start":197.759,"end":206.755,"text":"去做考驗而且是用頭版頭你曾幾何時在最近的新聞裡面看到三大報用頭版頭處理同樣的新聞"},{"start":208.857,"end":230.212,"text":"除了總統就職演說這種公開的確定的以外好像沒有啊如果它只是屬於一個小大的消息屬於一個就是沒有被經過證實的消息的話不可能非常不符合邏輯跟常理嘛那再者也有人講是說如果這樣的話會不會我們太早把底牌掀出來未來對於我們跟美國的一個軍購採購的時候會不會"},{"start":232.705,"end":245.557,"text":"一百五十億就變成是最基本的一個門檻他可能就認為是說我們至少就一百五十億以上的軍備國防預算要來購買相關武器會不會增加我們之後談判的一些難度"},{"start":247.068,"end":267.368,"text":"我的回答其實還是一樣的就是說因為我們要採購任何的項目還是要先跟美方進行溝通啊所以我們不會所以現在部長您如果說連你是負責國防部的部長都是看到報導你才知道這樣消息那這樣資訊的落差到底你覺得說嚴不嚴重啊"},{"start":268.958,"end":295.608,"text":"因為我也相信我也相信您所講的喔到目前我相信您所講的是我們都有台美交流綿密的交流機制管道我也認為過去即便今天美國政府共和黨民主黨要共和黨要政黨輪替但我相信中華民國跟美國的一個交流方面也不因為政黨輪替而有所變化嘛我們的制度應該是照走嘛是是所以部長您可以理解本席今天問出來這樣的問題到底"},{"start":298.892,"end":321.457,"text":"核心點跟細節您能夠掌握嗎?我沒有辦法進一步評論您剛提到的這個所謂相關的報導我想你可能有話也不好說啦感謝 稍微 抱歉一分鐘本席最近有另外一個部分是因為很多委員都講到是說待遇的問題那其中我們鄉親也有接受到這個教召"},{"start":322.128,"end":339.05,"text":"那現在我不知道說部長有沒有去關心這個火石的部分但是很多的鄉親回來抱怨叫招的火石啊真的不好那我也去查了一下你在今年有因為說叫招的一個提升的這個頻率所以說我們有提高了"},{"start":340.06,"end":344.222,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金．．"},{"start":356.428,"end":376.264,"text":"所以也難怪乎我們有鄉親回來之後就講是說他去接受教召真的伙食不好請再要回答好不好部長能不能來了解一下還是我們有沒有什麼樣管道因為97塊我說這個現在一顆便當可能都不止97塊了結果你97塊是要負責三餐那即便是大鍋飯的部分你可能也沒有辦法煮準備太好"},{"start":377.277,"end":401.115,"text":"我想我們全國軍的副使會應該是會全面的調升那所以這個教召的這個副使會也一樣會全面的調升也會調升明年的預算裡面是不是調升到多少對這很重要啊現在是97塊不是97了是啦報告我們從本島的每個月有從418一直到這個南沙有調到1000多"},{"start":403.435,"end":426.06,"text":"火石費叫招的部分火石費這個部分叫招會跟我們的部隊一起調匯後給本席因為本席查到的是你一個月多少錢平均下來一天97塊好不好那你現在的部分就是我們要求的是說至少你要比照相關辦理或者是你的費用應該要提升好不好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":658,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時59分）主席，謝謝，麻煩請顧部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好，延續我們今天一整天的討論，其實這一個150億美元的軍售，大家都關心，你剛剛一直回答一件事情，就是應該是依照臺美綿密的交流以及過去既有不管是採購的流程、採購的機制，對不對？如果真的如同您這樣講的話，那國內三大報平面報導用頭版頭來處理這件事情會不會就覺得突兀跟奇怪？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我並不知道Financial Times的消息來源是怎麼樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我今天跟你討論的更是一個比較核心的問題，因為第一，國內會引發大家這樣關注，其實我想會去看Financial Times的人不多，但是為什麼會突然間大家大量關注？是因為隔一天之後三大報以頭版頭處理這一個新聞。我請教，三大報頭版頭處理這個新聞，如果只有單純一個報紙可能它是獨家，但是三大報全部都用頭版頭處理這個新聞的時候，代表他們某種程度上是有權威的消息來源，不然就是他們可能有經過查證或是經過求證，認為這個消息屬實的程度高，所以他們會去處理。國防部在三大報頭版頭出來的前一天，對於媒體的公關或是相關的這些回應有沒有做出什麼樣的回應？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們對於這樣子不是我們現在所提出來的，據我的了解我們沒有提出這樣子一個清單的情況之下，我想我們國防部的立場……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以部長您也是看到昨天三大報頭版頭之後才知道有這件事？"],["顧部長立雄：至少我們國防部沒有提出這樣的一個清單。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊，我的意思是你沒有提出這個清單，結果你身為國防部部長是在昨天早上起床的時候看到三大報頭版頭才知道我們有提出這個清單，你才去問、才去追源頭，然後到今天發覺國防部上到下都沒有講過這樣的事情？"],["顧部長立雄：因為Financial Times的意思就是說……"],["洪委員孟楷：很不合理，你會不會覺得？"],["顧部長立雄：我們現階段有提出去，我們現在已經澄清說明，我想總統府也澄清說明了，我們現階段並沒有提出這樣子的一個清單給美國或者是未來的川普政府，我一直在強調就是我們會循既有的機制跟美方就任何採購項目進行事先的溝通。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，這些我都尊重，而且其實不分黨派的委員大家都講，能夠獲得我國要的先進國防武器設備，我們絕對都支持，但是現在的問題點在於，如果是如同你在國會殿堂裡面所答詢這樣的狀況的話，那我覺得這會產生一個很大的資訊落差，一個是國內的三大報，我想國內三大報不會拿他們的媒體公信力考驗，而且是用頭版頭，你曾幾何時在最近的新聞裡面看到三大報用頭版頭處理同樣的新聞？除了總統就職演說這種公開的、確定的以外，好像沒有啊！如果只是屬於一個小道的消息、屬於一個沒有被經過證實的消息的話，不可能、非常不符合邏輯跟常理嘛！再者，也有人講如果是這樣的話，我們會不會太早把底牌掀出來？未來對於我們跟美國軍購採購的時候，會不會150億就變成最基本的一個門檻？他可能認為我們至少就150億以上的軍備國防預算要來購買相關武器，會不會增加我們之後談判的一些難度？部長，您覺得呢？"],["顧部長立雄：我的回答其實還是一樣的，就是因為我們要採購任何的項目還是要先跟美方進行溝通，所以我們不會……"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊，現在如果連你是負責國防部的部長都是看到報導才知道有這樣的消息，這樣資訊的落差，你到底覺得嚴不嚴重啊？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有辦法……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為我也相信你所講的，到目前我相信你所講的，我們臺美都有綿密的交流機制管道，我也認為過去、即便今天美國政府民主黨、共和黨要政黨輪替，但我相信中華民國跟美國的交流方面也不因為政黨輪替而有所變化，我們的制度應該是照走嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以部長可以理解本席今天問出這樣的問題到底核心點跟細節，你能夠掌握嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有辦法進一步評論您剛剛提到的這個所謂相關的報導。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我想你可能有話也不好說啦！","感謝召委，再1分鐘。本席最近有另外一個部分是因為很多委員都有講到待遇的問題，其中我們鄉親也有接受教召，現在我不知道部長有沒有去關心伙食的部分，很多鄉親回來抱怨教召的伙食真的不好，我也去查了一下，你在今年有因為教召頻率提升所以提高了2元，從原本的一個人一天伙食費95元提高2元，變成一個人一天的伙食費三餐97元，但95元、97元其實說實在，以現在的物價來講真的還是低啊，所以也難怪我們有鄉親回來之後就講他去接受教召的伙食真的不好。"],["主席：好，請摘要回答，好不好？"],["洪委員孟楷：部長能不能來了解一下？還是我們有沒有什麼樣的管道？因為97元，說真的現在一個便當可能都不止97元了，結果97元是要負責三餐啊，即便是大鍋飯可能也沒有辦法準備太好。"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們全國軍的副食費應該是會全面調升，所以教召的副食費也一樣會全面調升。"],["洪委員孟楷：也會調升？在明年的預算裡面，是不是？"],["主席：調升到多少？"],["洪委員孟楷：調升到多少？對，這很重要啊！現在是97元。"],["主席：不是97元了啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：是啦！"],["李次長鳳翔：報告，我們從本島每個月418元一直到南沙有調到一千多元，這個全面通通都有調升。"],["洪委員孟楷：伙食費，教召的部分。"],["主席：主副食費啦！"],["李次長鳳翔：伙食費這個部分，教召會跟我們的部隊一起調。"],["主席：教召是比照。我看這樣子好不好？洪委員關心的這件事情請提供一份資料給他，訊息溝通正確很重要。"],["洪委員孟楷：會後給本席，因為本席查到的是你一個月多少錢，平均下來一天97元，好不好？現在的部分我們要求至少比照相關辦理，或者是你的費用應該要提升。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝。各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的是鄭天財委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156806","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678e0d64c481012de1d56f61c8275d0c8f2ea236d48226e86be42d906fa9f5dffe95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:48:58 - 12:00:45","影片長度":"00:11:47","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「貨物稅條例」11案：\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等17人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人、委員陳冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」等9案。【行政院函請審議及本院委員賴惠員等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草案」案。\n(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢答）\n三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預算部分。（僅詢答）\n四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有關財政部主管債務基金－中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）\n【11月13日及14日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:48:58+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:45+08:00","duration":707,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":8,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-2-20-8"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.59096875,"end":10.915343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.168468750000002,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.450968750000001,"end":13.058468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.26096875,"end":14.138468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.745968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.745968750000003,"end":15.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.04971875,"end":16.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.46721875,"end":17.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.86346875,"end":18.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.96471875,"end":19.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.21346875,"end":20.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.98971875,"end":25.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.34346875,"end":25.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.96784375,"end":26.035343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.035343750000003,"end":26.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.144718750000003,"end":29.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.493468750000005,"end":47.415968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.057218750000004,"end":53.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.486593750000004,"end":56.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.59159375,"end":64.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.25284375000001,"end":68.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.72034375,"end":71.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.96909375,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.03659375000001,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.23471875,"end":74.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.58471875000001,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.60159375,"end":75.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.71096875,"end":79.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.00159375,"end":81.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.54159375,"end":84.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.38096875000001,"end":83.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.65909375000001,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.08409375000001,"end":97.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.62784375000001,"end":96.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.29846875000001,"end":98.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.37409375,"end":106.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.20846875000001,"end":107.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.89159375000001,"end":111.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.40596875000001,"end":111.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.43534375,"end":117.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.02096875000001,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.50534375000001,"end":124.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.31534375000001,"end":131.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.30159375,"end":133.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.35596875000002,"end":137.25846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.69721875000002,"end":141.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.84846875,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.45909375000002,"end":149.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.65721875,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.74034375000002,"end":159.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.15784375,"end":162.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.67221875,"end":163.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.15721875,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.96534375000002,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.98221875000002,"end":176.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.99909375000001,"end":177.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.28596875000002,"end":199.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.59721875000002,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.02221875,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.23659375000003,"end":196.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.67909375000002,"end":199.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.71284375000002,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.03346875000003,"end":229.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.37096875,"end":200.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.35596875000002,"end":215.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.03409375,"end":223.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.18596875,"end":223.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.57784375000003,"end":226.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.56034375000002,"end":234.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.82971875,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.88034375,"end":235.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.53846875000002,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.79971875,"end":245.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.86721875,"end":238.39034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.96721875000003,"end":247.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.67159375000003,"end":254.42159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.53971875000002,"end":263.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.66909375,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.00659375000004,"end":265.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.04034375000003,"end":264.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.71096875,"end":269.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.14034375,"end":272.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.11909375,"end":290.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.30284375,"end":285.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.67346875000004,"end":302.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.01471875000004,"end":293.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.61346875000004,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.01784375,"end":300.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.34659375,"end":305.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.82284375,"end":308.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.67034375000003,"end":325.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.95471875000004,"end":326.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.08534375,"end":332.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.63284375,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.67034375000003,"end":337.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.10909375,"end":341.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.41659375,"end":361.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.28659375,"end":379.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.15721875,"end":382.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.39721875000004,"end":384.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.37159375000005,"end":387.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.07159375000003,"end":390.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.41721875,"end":392.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.98221875,"end":394.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.97346875000005,"end":399.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.83346875,"end":403.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.08596875,"end":404.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.21659375,"end":407.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.01346875,"end":415.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.26971875000004,"end":419.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.11721875,"end":422.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.46221875000003,"end":434.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.42721875,"end":443.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.89409375,"end":446.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":451.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.00659375000004,"end":453.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.13721875000005,"end":481.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.95909375,"end":460.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.42721875,"end":461.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.38659375000003,"end":479.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.33534375000005,"end":516.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.55721875,"end":495.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.83471875000004,"end":500.37471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.24659375000005,"end":512.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.4740937500001,"end":514.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.7647187499999,"end":545.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.24471875,"end":523.4765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.1540937500001,"end":535.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.89096875,"end":547.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.6965937500001,"end":554.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.8134687500001,"end":556.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.8090937500001,"end":558.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.94784375,"end":566.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.7947187500001,"end":569.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.56221875,"end":574.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.6922187499999,"end":586.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.0659687500001,"end":588.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.4115937500001,"end":590.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.3603437500001,"end":599.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.57846875,"end":600.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.16471875,"end":611.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.2109687500001,"end":605.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.2053437500001,"end":617.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.08221875,"end":620.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.42784375,"end":620.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.3559687500001,"end":624.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.84534375,"end":620.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.0303437499999,"end":632.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.65784375,"end":634.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.1384687500001,"end":642.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.96846875,"end":651.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.0522187500001,"end":647.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.7097187500001,"end":663.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.0834687500001,"end":687.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.0122187500001,"end":688.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.38346875,"end":694.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.99409375,"end":696.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.28096875,"end":697.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.2722187500001,"end":699.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.3772187500001,"end":707.9709687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.602,"end":29.577,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我想請財政部長還有趙鋒、金控、董董事長以及台灣台酒公司湯董事長好 那個請部長還有董董事長還有我們的湯董事長委員好是 部長好 還有一位董事長"},{"start":37.537,"end":53.172,"text":"好部長好兩位董事長好我想今天有一個很重要的事情就是兆豐金控的董董事長我現在在這裡本席要給你按兩個讚第一個讚是銀行公會希望能夠訂立融資公司的專法是嗎"},{"start":54.534,"end":79.119,"text":"第二個讚就是之前在兆豐銀行開出第一槍從現在開始到明年要暫停在非實名制的網路社群媒體下廣告現在所有公營銀行庫部長全部都加入了嗎第一個土地銀行確定已經加入了其他的勒在座的董董各位董事長都加入吧不加入的舉手"},{"start":80.046,"end":107.634,"text":"沒有嘛,齁?報告委員關股的全部都進來關股加入上禮拜都已經全部加入了所以銀行公會也在董董事長的領導之下接下來民營的銀行你要怎麼辦?我們盡量是用呼籲的方式、用勸說的方式呼籲、勸說打詐指揮中心打詐是中華民國政府最重要的工作是這些所謂的非實名的社群媒體他們當然是國際公司"},{"start":109.099,"end":136.202,"text":"離我們跟不離我們會差很多至少至少現在你不知道到底有多少人冒用了我們的這些相關的銀行做廣告只要你沒下廣告就知道那上面的廣告一定是假的對吧沒錯沒錯所以這件事情要堅持部長除了我們工銀行庫之外我也希望財政部跟銀行工會去跟我們的民營銀行勸說至少這是一個態度的問題好嗎"},{"start":137.782,"end":159.769,"text":"是,我想這個部分我們也會跟金管會一起來合作是好,所以我剛剛請台九公司上來,台九公司要不要也呼應一下你們好像下的廣告也不少好如果他不配合我們的公股,包括我們不配合我們財政部的政策你的廣告是不是也要考慮一下考慮一下吧好"},{"start":160.216,"end":176.484,"text":"好 說好了就要做到第二個部分部長請問財政部所主管的機關大概有編列了4700多萬的媒體政策跟業務宣傳有沒有花在剛剛所說的這些非實名制的網路社群媒體上"},{"start":177.344,"end":199.111,"text":"瞭解的話大概就是租稅的部分我們會做一些宣導大概會是以貼文的方式會去做一些貼文貼文沒有問題廣告的部分沒有吧對就是用貼文的方式我們也會再去做一些盤查如果能夠以更好的更有效的方式杜絕這些運用這樣子來做詐騙的讓民眾不要上當我覺得更重要這是我們主要的一個"},{"start":199.591,"end":200.952,"text":"沛琳沛琳沛沛沛沛"},{"start":220.463,"end":246.319,"text":"下的媒體廣告大家都看一下吧不要只有兆豐銀嘛不要只有公營行庫嘛應該是全政府都應該找一片看看我們到底下了多少廣告在這些非實名制的社群媒體上財政部來幫我統計好嗎整理一下也許可能跟其他機關我們也會請其他機關一起調資料但是財政部所屬的也麻煩您財政部所屬我們來處理所以還是一樣"},{"start":249.04,"end":253.483,"text":"陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員陳冠廷等26人、委員"},{"start":273.366,"end":294.682,"text":"報告委員其實這個我不敢鞠躬這也是主管機關有要求當然我也去跟主管機關報告說如果去參考日本、香港或是甚至其他英國的話大概也差不多都有這種專法所以我建議是要趕快去設這個專法謝謝我想銀行公會應該是最希望成立專法免得現在變成大家亂成一團"},{"start":295.823,"end":307.778,"text":"而且最重要的是台灣社會裡面有太多受到這些影響的不管是年輕人也好或者是弱勢族群也好可能比較大的關鍵點是在於誰是主管機關好 謝謝那兩位董事長請回我請部長繼續"},{"start":309.727,"end":331.969,"text":"今天我們在討論的是貨物稅所以貨物稅裡面把所有的大客車、公共汽車只要是電動車我們都以作為減免但是現在有關我們這些電動車它最大的問題是主要的問題部長知道為什麼電動車的推廣沒有辦法這麼普及嗎"},{"start":333.697,"end":335.377,"text":"賴慈智慧、賴慈智慧、賴慈智慧"},{"start":362.352,"end":367.456,"text":"好數量不夠現在今年上半年電動車的新掛牌就有19000輛2023年是有2萬多輛那到目前為止電動小客車的總數已經到8萬多輛看起來數量不斷的在增長可是我們的充電樁好像沒有像車輛增長的這麼快"},{"start":383.49,"end":404.347,"text":"所以很多的問題是充電樁不夠所以大家換購的意願就沒有那麼高現在的問題是充電站不夠的原因可能有幾樣第一個是環境部我們大力在推展可是為什麼還是不夠目標一樣我們是不是有更多的推力跟拉力曾經在2022年的時候"},{"start":409.079,"end":421.969,"text":"相關的會計十事無所早就已經在推動說如果要提升台灣的電動車產業就希望充電站的地價稅、房屋稅有沒有可能做一些優惠現在財政部有沒有這樣的方向"},{"start":426.482,"end":451.582,"text":"有沒有可能做相關優惠因為土地稅法18條規定特定土地的使用項目它可以課徵地價稅然後不需要經由所謂第16條所以以前是用停車場的部分做了樣貫的優惠那充電樁是不是充電站在土地稅法或者是黃屋稅法中間我們可以增加一些所謂的減免的規範部長"},{"start":454.421,"end":481.257,"text":"委員您提到就是說對充電樁的設置從這個稅的部分來給你鼓勵那這是不是主要的一個原因我覺得這個再去探究然後我們會再去盤整一下相關現行的法令在這個部分是不是可以如果在停車場裡面設停車如果停車場原來也就是免地價稅的話那當然就不會有這個問題那其實停車場本來就有所謂的優惠嘛那我想還有一個就是"},{"start":482.398,"end":499.786,"text":"就我所知在因為過往的建築物裡面下面如果現在我們買的房子下面有地下停車位那地下停車位通常大家希望把車子開回去能夠有充電裝因為充電裝有兩種一種可能是很快速的有一種就是很久你才充得飽的"},{"start":500.806,"end":529.008,"text":"這也是一個問題如何在原有房屋裡面加設電動樁第二個就是新建房屋裡面有沒有要求對停車位裡面就一定的比例的充電站這個都是很多的方式來推動土地稅而已土地稅如果做了相關的優惠也許它是一個誘因我講的是拉力跟推力我除了給它車輛的優惠我給它充電站的優惠可能也是另外一個我只希望"},{"start":529.728,"end":557.801,"text":"財政部因為這個如果免稅減稅會減到地方政府的地方稅所以我希望財政部去統一討論一下是不是找環境部還有我們相關的單位去找到可能給他優惠的機會我們再來研議看看這個可能是除了研議之外我希望它是一個政府淨零碳排目標的一個整體政策裡面考慮的東西裡面的一環是不是另外最後我想還是要問一下"},{"start":559.022,"end":586.881,"text":"部長問一下我們貨物稅其實在我上任之後3月份就有跟您提到除了碳稅接下來要徵了能源稅最重要的是我們的貨物稅其實非常老舊而且不合時宜電視機跟液晶顯示器一個要徵客貨物稅一個不用現在我們找到很多有趣的冰箱要徵貨物稅可是冰藏屍體的"},{"start":588.562,"end":611.118,"text":"施提冷凍櫃沒有貨物稅冰凍雪漿的冰庫也沒有貨物稅可是我們一般人的冰箱有貨物稅這是什麼道理如同委員所說貨物稅確實是一個很奇怪的道理冰屍體冰雪漿不需要貨物稅冰我家裡的蔬菜水果要貨物稅"},{"start":612.701,"end":634.175,"text":"這個貨物稅該檢討了你當時答應我11月會有檢討報告來了嗎?有一個委外報告嘛,對第二個,液晶顯示器跟電視機一個有貨物稅一個沒有錄音機有貨物稅可是手機有錄音功能也沒有貨物稅這個叫做原則性的問題第三個,更有趣的"},{"start":636.663,"end":655.758,"text":"積積積積積的飲料要課貨物稅但是手搖杯不用貨物稅這實在是太奇怪了啦部長你的檢討了沒檢討了多少什麼時候會有檢討報告貨物稅該做檢討全面檢討您提的那個沒有錯您提的當時是說11月底這個檢討那個整個報告會出來但是後來因為"},{"start":658.8,"end":679.034,"text":"他要在範圍的關係所以會延到12月這個報告會出來沒關係但是部長我剛剛講的這些很奇怪的稅財政部必須這是幾十年前認為說家裡買個電冰箱是奢侈品現在它只是一般人的生活用品第二個冰皮的東西就變免貨物稅這太奇怪了"},{"start":680.314,"end":706.965,"text":"這個東西檢討不是只有我說而是全面性你們要重新去檢討所有貨物稅它的合理性好嗎?12月的報告麻煩部長拿出來第二個就剛剛講的你們下的這些廣告的預算也麻煩在一個禮拜之內把相關的預算資料盤點給我謝謝部長謝謝珊珊委員主席在這裡宣布中午我們不休息那12點以後我們開放就是在會場用餐"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1118,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時49分）謝謝主席，我想請財政部長、兆豐金控的董董事長以及臺酒公司的湯董事長。"],["主席：請部長、董董事長及湯董事長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：部長好、兩位董事長好。今天有一件很重要的事情，本席在這裡要給兆豐金控的董董事長按2個讚，第一個讚是銀行公會希望能夠訂立融資公司的專法，是嗎？第二個讚就是之前兆豐銀行開出第一槍，從現在開始到明年要暫停在非實名制的網路社群媒體下廣告。部長，現在所有的公銀行庫全部都加入了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，土地銀行確定已經加入了。"],["黃委員珊珊：其他的呢？在座的各位董事長都加入了嗎？不加入的舉手？沒有嘛！"],["董董事長瑞斌：報告委員，官股的全部都進來了。"],["黃委員珊珊：官股的全都加入了？"],["董董事長瑞斌：上個禮拜全都加入了。"],["黃委員珊珊：銀行公會在董董事長的領導之下，接下來針對民營的銀行，你要怎麼辦？"],["董董事長瑞斌：我們盡量用呼籲的方式、用勸說的方式，希望大家能夠配合。"],["黃委員珊珊：呼籲、勸說？"],["董董事長瑞斌：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：打詐是中華民國政府最重要的工作，這些非實名制的社群媒體是國際公司，理我們與不理我們會差很多，至少現在不知道到底有多少人冒用我們相關的銀行做廣告，只要你們沒下廣告就知道那上面的廣告一定是假的，對吧？"],["董董事長瑞斌：沒錯、沒錯。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，對於這件事情要堅持。部長，除了公營行庫之外，我也希望財政部與銀行公會能向民營銀行勸說，至少這是一個態度的問題，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，針對這個部分，我們也會與金管會一起合作。"],["黃委員珊珊：剛才我也請臺酒公司的董事長上來，請問臺酒公司要不要也呼應一下，你們下的廣告好像也不少？"],["湯董事長期安：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果它不配合我們財政部的政策，你的廣告是不是也要考慮一下？考慮一下吧？"],["湯董事長期安：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，說好了就要做到。","第二個部分，部長，財政部主管的機關大概編列了四千七百多萬的媒體政策及業務宣傳費，請問有沒有花在剛剛說的那些非實名制的網路社群媒體上？"],["莊部長翠雲：據我的了解，我們會針對租稅的部分做一些宣導，大概會是以貼文的方式進行宣導。"],["黃委員珊珊：貼文嗎？貼文沒有問題，廣告的部分沒有吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，就是用貼文的方式，此外，我們也會再去做一些盤查，能以更好、更有效的方式，杜絕運用這樣的方式進行詐騙，讓民眾不要上當，這是我們主要的目的及目標。"],["黃委員珊珊：我希望財政部針對這些沒有協助或沒有配合打詐成效、甚至要我們銀行用這樣的方式來抵制的所謂非實名制網路平台等相關媒體，你也去統整一下。"],["莊部長翠雲：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：從財政部到中央政府各部門下的媒體廣告，大家都看一下吧！不要只有兆豐銀嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會。"],["黃委員珊珊：不要只有公營行庫嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：應該是整個政府都找一遍，看看我們到底下了多少廣告在這些非實名制的社群媒體上。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：財政部來幫我統計，好嗎？整理一下，我們也會請其他機關一起調資料，但是財政部所屬的部分就麻煩你了。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，財政部所屬的部分由我們來處理。"],["黃委員珊珊：還是一樣，誠如剛剛講的，董董事長這樣的動作算是為政府部門開了第一槍，我們也希望政府要一致朝打詐的方向走，尤其是像我們下了這麼多的廣告，這些廣告就要用在有用的地方，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：董董事長，你的融資公司法也是銀行公會會大力推動的吧？"],["董董事長瑞斌：報告委員，其實我不敢居功，這個也是應主管機關的要求，當然我也向主管機關報告，如果參考像是日本、香港或英國的話，大概差不多也都有這種專法，所以我建議要趕快訂定這個專法。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯，謝謝。我想銀行公會應該是最希望成立專法，免得像現在這樣大家亂成一團，最重要的是臺灣社會有太多受到影響的人，無論是年輕人也好、或是弱勢族群也好。"],["董董事長瑞斌：可能比較大的關鍵點在於誰是主管機關。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，謝謝，兩位董事長請回。","我要繼續請問部長，今天我們要討論的是貨物稅，目前貨物稅針對所有的大客車、公共汽車，只要是屬於電動車，我們都給予減免，但是現在這些電動車有一個最大的問題、主要的問題，部長，你知道為什麼電動車的推廣沒辦法那麼普及嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：了解，可能電池的續航力是一個問題，還有充電樁的普遍性。"],["黃委員珊珊：第一個是電池的續航力，可能跑一跑沒電了，找不到地方充電。第二個是找到了地方充電，結果都有車子正在充電，我就沒辦法充電，甚至曾經發生過打架、爭執的事情。因此，更嚴重的問題是我們設的充電站、充電樁數量還是不夠，對吧？今年上半年電動車新掛牌大約有1萬9,000輛，2023年有二萬多輛，到目前為止，電動小客車的總數已經達到八萬多輛，看起來數量不斷的在增長，可是我們的充電樁好像不如車輛增長得這麼快，所以很多的問題是充電樁不夠，大家換購的意願就沒有那麼高了。現在充電站不夠的原因可能有幾項，第一個，雖然環境部大力在推展，但是為什麼還是不夠？目標一樣，我們是不是有更多的推力與拉力？因此，部長，曾經在2022年的時候，相關的會計師事務所早就已經在推動，如果要提升臺灣的電動車產業，希望充電站的地價稅、房屋稅有沒有可能做一些優惠？現在財政部有沒有這樣的方向？有沒有可能做相關優惠？根據土地稅法第十八條的規定，特定土地的使用項目，可以課徵地價稅，不需要經由所謂的第十六條，因此，以前是在停車場的部分做了優惠。針對充電樁及充電站，在土地稅法或房屋稅法中間，我們是不是可以增加一些減免的規範，部長？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，你提到充電樁的設置可以從稅的部分給予鼓勵。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。"],["莊部長翠雲：這個是不是主要的原因，我覺得要再去探究，而且我們也會再去盤整現行的相關法令，如果停車場原來也是免地價稅的話，當然就不會有這個問題。"],["黃委員珊珊：對，因為停車場本來就有所謂的優惠嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：其次，就我所知，過往的建築物下面，譬如我們買的房子有地下停車位，通常大家希望把車子開回去就能夠……"],["黃委員珊珊：直接在家裡的充電樁充電。"],["莊部長翠雲：充電樁有兩種，一種是很快速的充電，另一種是要很久才能充得飽，這也是一個問題，如何在原有的房屋裡加設電動樁。第二個，新建房屋有沒有要求停車位有一定的比例設置充電樁。其實這個都有很多的方式來推動。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒關係，我與你討論的就是土地稅而已。"],["莊部長翠雲：土地稅的部分，我覺得……"],["黃委員珊珊：如果土地稅做了相關的優惠，也許它會是一個誘因，我講的是拉力與推力。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我知道。"],["黃委員珊珊：除了給它車輛的優惠，還給它充電站的優惠，可能也是另外一個誘因，但是這個免稅、減稅會減到地方政府的地方稅，因此我希望財政部統一討論一下，是不是與環境部及相關單位找到可能給它優惠的機會，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們再來研議看看。"],["黃委員珊珊：這個可能是除了研議之外，我希望它是政府淨零碳排目標整體政策中考慮的東西。"],["莊部長翠雲：裡面的一環，是不是？"],["黃委員珊珊：最後，我要問一下部長，其實在我上任後的3月份就曾與你提過貨物稅，除了碳稅以及接下來要徵的能源稅，最重要的是我們的貨物稅非常老舊，而且不合時宜。譬如電視機與液晶顯示器，一個要徵貨物稅、一個不用。我們現在也找到很多有趣的規定，像是冰箱要徵貨物稅，但是冰藏屍體的冷凍櫃沒有貨物稅、冰凍血漿的冰庫也沒有貨物稅，一般人使用的冰箱卻有貨物稅，這是什麼道理？這是很奇怪的道理。"],["莊部長翠雲：如同委員所說的，貨物稅是一個很……"],["黃委員珊珊：冰屍體、冰血漿不需要貨物稅，冰我家裡的蔬菜水果要貨物稅，這個貨物稅該檢討了。當時你答應我在11月會有檢討報告，現在報告來了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，有一個委外報告要出來。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個，液晶顯示器與電視機，一個有貨物稅、一個沒有，錄音機有貨物稅，但是手機有錄音功能卻沒有貨物稅，這個叫做原則性的問題。第三個，更有趣的，機製的飲料要課貨物稅，但是手搖杯不用貨物稅，這個實在是太奇怪了。","部長，你們檢討了沒有？檢討了多少？什麼時候會有檢討報告？貨物稅該做檢討，全面性的檢討。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員提的沒有錯，當時是說11月底整個檢討報告會出來，但是後來因為範圍的關係，所以這個報告會延到12月才出來。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒關係！但是，部長，剛剛我講的那些很奇怪的稅，可能財政部幾十年前認為家裡買電冰箱是屬於奢侈品，但現在它只是一般人的生活用品。第二個，冰其他的東西就免貨物稅，這個太奇怪了！並不是只有我說的這個東西要檢討，而是你們要全面重新檢討所有貨物稅的合理性，好嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：12月的報告就麻煩部長拿出來。第二個就是剛剛講的，你們下的這些廣告預算，也麻煩在1個禮拜之內將相關預算資料盤點給我。"],["莊部長翠雲：盤點一下。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝珊珊委員。","主席在這裡宣布，我們中午不休息，12點之後開放在會場用餐。","接著請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":172,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-20-8","speakers":["賴惠員","王鴻薇","賴士葆","陳玉珍","羅明才","李彥秀","顏寬恒","陳菁徽","黃珊珊","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李坤城","王世堅","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","蔡其昌"],"page_start":13,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"11310002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11310002_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「貨物稅條例」11 案：( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員張智倫等 17\n人、委員賴士葆等26人、委員蔡其昌等18人、委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等19人、委員陳\n冠廷等23人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員賴惠員等18人分別擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條條文修正草\n案」等9案、(二)本院委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之三條文修正草\n案」案、(三)本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「貨物稅條例第十二條及第十二條之六條文修正草案」\n案；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部及所屬單位歲入預算部分。（僅詢\n答）；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關財政部、國庫署、財政資訊中心歲出預\n算部分。（僅詢答）；四、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分有\n關財政部主管債務基金─中央政府債務基金。（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"11310002_00002"}}},{"id":"156805","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156805","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678720b3322f914086b370fa4497fc607c0ea236d48226e86beaf981fddda04ef9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:53:16 - 12:00:17","影片長度":"00:07:01","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:53:16+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:17+08:00","duration":421,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.0553437500000005,"end":11.607218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.607218750000001,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.952843750000003,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.08721875,"end":39.197843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.299093750000004,"end":46.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.39471875,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.064718750000004,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.806593750000005,"end":59.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.12284375,"end":63.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.632843750000006,"end":69.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.28221875,"end":66.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.02846875,"end":74.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.34846875000001,"end":101.50034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.25971875,"end":106.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.22096875000001,"end":117.17721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.32909375000001,"end":187.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.98034375,"end":244.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.24159375000002,"end":253.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.22346875000002,"end":296.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.35971875,"end":272.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.77784375000005,"end":305.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.45159375000003,"end":319.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.79971875,"end":344.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.53784375000004,"end":321.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.04034375000003,"end":346.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.82909375,"end":360.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.62034375,"end":410.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.71721875000003,"end":361.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.81909375000004,"end":419.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.37471875,"end":420.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":420.87659375000004,"end":421.72034375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.61,"end":14.185,"text":"謝謝主席。我請體育署署長以及權敘部法規司司長。請政署長以及司長。委員好。"},{"start":18.123,"end":46.14,"text":"我先請教一下師長因為我剛剛前面聽到幾位立委的詢問其中黃國昌委員他相當質疑因為我們今天是進行法規的詢答體育部要成立要先有法規他今天說我們今天在審法規你的預算跟原額怎麼都沒有拿過來怎麼沒有提供給委員參考請問一下全序部我們是不是體育部我們要修法要先有母法才可以編預算才有人事原額是不是這個樣子"},{"start":48.764,"end":66.954,"text":"委員報告因為全區部主管的是這個組織法規的合意是那麼預算和緣額緣額是行政院人事先總處的權限是緣額是預算這你的權責範圍你的了解呢那我們這邊如果負責全區審定的話全區審定人員當然事先要有組織法規做依據"},{"start":70.043,"end":71.104,"text":"運動部組織法草案 案 案 案"},{"start":98.866,"end":101.21,"text":"我剛剛聽了一下第一個就剛剛講的現在魔法都還沒過體育部都還沒成立"},{"start":107.284,"end":108.444,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":129.973,"end":158.107,"text":"因為在我們目前你們的院版你們的部的版本跟我自己提案的版本裡面都有包含提到了全民運動裡面我們有兒少運動我們有青年體育我們有社區體育我們也有新興體育過去以來我一直相當關心的就是街舞以及霹靂舞那尤其霹靂舞因為納入了奧運的賽事所以呢我們所有全台灣的街舞人街舞在台灣的發展已經要超過20年了"},{"start":159.788,"end":161.189,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件"},{"start":189.042,"end":208.252,"text":"制造有機會讓政府看見然後我們才能夠來討論說究竟這些我們過去政府看不見的全民運動那需要政府哪些的幫忙呢除了街舞以外我們自己非常社區裡面非常多的像是兒校的足球俱樂部還有很多他不是打校隊的棒球"},{"start":209.352,"end":229.392,"text":"但是他對棒球非常的有興趣家長也非常支持利用週末的時間在打社區棒球這些都叫做全民運動所以我們相當的期盼我們要透過修法的處理立運動部之後全民運動必須要他有更重要的重視然後相關的預算相關的這個支持都應該要出來所以這個絕對不是"},{"start":233.015,"end":240.887,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 與全民運動之間這個是加成的關係所以我們才要加上預算加上人事嘛所以我現在請問署長運動部成立之後我們對於競技體育的預算會不會減少"},{"start":245.267,"end":254.497,"text":"報告委員我們是在現有的競技運動的基礎之下我們再去強化我們全民運動所以競技運動的經費並不會去做減少。競技運動的經費不會減少而且未來相關的資源像你還有運動產業行政法人等等支持只會更多不會更少。"},{"start":263.886,"end":280.664,"text":"這個你們一定政策上面要說明清楚因為我們現在在做的是這個法規的詢答運動部要成立是國家大事你們要說明清楚像這個運動產業的行政法人我就很關心為什麼因為我知道我們很多的選手他的生涯這巔峰的時期畢竟有生命"},{"start":281.304,"end":288.831,"text":"發展部組織法草案（事由．立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":298.158,"end":317.545,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 條文 行政法人在針對比較多元的專業人才方面以及我們運動員經營動員等等我們其實都會把它納入這也是為什麼要有這樣的一個組織法的條文目前人數當然我們沒有辦法現在做太多的預估但是我們行政法人我們預估是希望能夠達到將近80到100人之內"},{"start":318.865,"end":319.285,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":335.571,"end":360.156,"text":"外交是寫在運動部裡面我很擔心會不會你的全民運動署裡面就沒有做運動外交但民間的運動外交也很重要這個署長能不能說明一下包括委員我們運動外交它分兩個層面第一個當然是我們國際運動是這部分會繼續來做那我們會善用行政法人特別我們在住外或者是整個的運動外交的部分我們希望保持一個彈性表示說我們今天一定會有"},{"start":361.476,"end":361.876,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":379.087,"end":382.988,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案。我發現了幾大問題第一個我們目前的運動的文物可能重要賽事重要選手相關文物分散在各個機關甚至可能民間然後我們的權責不清保存的人才過去是不夠專業所以現在已經入法我覺得非常重要我希望運動部部長也在要就台灣的運動文化記憶保存要做妥善的規劃"},{"start":405.674,"end":405.814,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案 案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":894,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（11時53分）謝謝主席，我請體育署署長以及銓敘部法規司司長。"],["主席：請鄭署長以及司長。"],["鄭署長世忠：委員好。"],["吳委員沛憶：我先請教一下司長，剛剛聽到前面幾位立委的詢問，其中黃國昌委員相當質疑，因為我們今天是進行法規的詢答，體育部要成立要先有法規，他說我們今天在審法規，你的預算跟員額怎麼都沒有拿過來？怎麼沒有提供給委員參考？我請問一下銓敘部，針對體育部我們要修法，是不是要先有母法才可以編預算、才有人事員額，是不是這樣子？"],["雷司長諶：跟委員報告，因為銓敘部主管的是組織法規的合議，至於預算和員額，員額是行政院人事行政總處的權限，預算是……"],["吳委員沛憶：就你的權責範圍和你的了解呢？"],["雷司長諶：我們這邊負責銓敘審定，要銓敘審定人員當然是先要有組織法規做依據。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝，司長您請回。","接下來我請問署長，前面很多委員都相當的關心，因為體育部要成立了，這一件事情民間討論許久，是全民期待的，我們今天處理的法規詢答其實只有六法，未來還有兩個法律還要再修，我們總共要修八個法規才有辦法成立體育部，其中還有全民運動署。我剛剛聽了一下，第一個就是剛剛講的，現在母法都還沒通過，體育部都還沒成立，結果有人在要預算、有人在要人、還有人在問人事，問誰要當部長、誰要當署長，這是在關說嗎？體育部都還沒成立，修法都還沒有通過，連逐條審查都還沒開始討論，所以請千萬要秉持你們的專業。我覺得其中一定要釐清的一點，其實這一次我自己也非常關注的就是全民運動署，因為在你們部的版本跟我自己提案的版本裡面都有提到全民運動，我們有兒少運動，我們有青年體育，我們有社區體育，我們也有新興體育，過去以來我一直相當關心的就是街舞以及霹靂舞，尤其因為霹靂舞被納入奧運賽事，所以所有全臺灣的街舞人……街舞在臺灣的發展已經要超過20年了，大家還沒有關注到奧運的時候，臺灣就有很多的街舞人在民間非常非常辛苦、沒有任何一毛政府的補助資源，靠著老師們之間、靠著大家錄影帶之間在流傳，自己來自我培訓以外，想辦法傳承給下一代，我們的街舞已經來到第二代、第三代，甚至第四代都出現了，終於在這一次的體育部成立之後，我們的全民體育有機會讓政府看見，至少有機會讓政府看見，然後我們才能夠來討論究竟這些過去政府看不見的全民運動，需要政府哪些的幫忙呢？除了街舞以外，社區裡面還有非常多的，像是兒少的足球俱樂部，還有很多不是打校隊的棒球，但是他對棒球非常的有興趣，家長也非常支持，利用周末的時間在打社區棒球，這些都叫做全民運動。所以我們相當期盼透過修法的處理，成立運動部之後，全民運動必須獲得更重要的重視，相關的預算、相關的支持都應該要出來，這絕對不是競技運動和全民運動之間的差異，這是加乘的關係，所以我們才要加上預算、加上人事。我現在請問署長，運動部成立之後，對於競技體育的預算會不會減少？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們是在現有競技運動的基礎之下再去強化全民運動，所以競技運動的經費並不會減少。"],["吳委員沛憶：競技運動的經費不會減少，而且未來相關的資源，像你們還有運動產業的行政法人等等，支持只會更多，不會更少，這你們在政策上面一定要說明清楚，因為我們現在在做的是法規的詢答，運動部要成立是國家大事，你們要說明清楚，像運動產業的行政法人我就很關心，為什麼？因為我知道很多選手他們的生涯最巔峰時期，畢竟有一定的生命，但是他們是我們國家太優秀的人才了，倘若可以繼續投入我們的運動產業，甚至來培育其他的運動產業人才，這都是我們國家的資產，請問現在運動產業行政法人有沒有預計要增聘多少人？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實我們在運動部組織法裡面有聘用人員這樣的條文，還有行政法人針對多元的專業人才以及菁英運動員等等，我們都會把他納入，這也就是為什麼要有這樣的組織法條文，當然人數我們現在沒有辦法做太多的預估，但是我們的行政法人預估是希望能夠達到將近80到100人之間。"],["吳委員沛憶：但就是會有增聘人才……"],["鄭署長世忠：一定會有增聘人才。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們會有新增的人才，而且可以從民間延攬專才。"],["鄭署長世忠：是。"],["吳委員沛憶：再來我要講的是，針對全民運動署我現在擔心的是，因為運動外交現在是寫在運動部的條文裡面，我們今天是法規詢答，我希望大家還是就法規多討論。目前運動外交是寫在運動部的條文裡面，我很擔心會不會全民運動署就沒有做運動外交？但民間的運動外交也很重要，這一點署長能不能說明一下？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們的運動外交分兩層面，第一當然是國際運動司這部分會繼續來做，我們會善用行政法人，特別我們在駐外或者是整個運動外交的部分，我們希望保持一個彈性，比方說……"],["吳委員沛憶：但也是會來做？"],["鄭署長世忠：一定會有。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，這一點很重要。最後要討論的是，我非常關注在我們這次的修法版本當中，我們把臺灣運動的文化記憶保存入法了，這是非常重要的事，臺灣的運動史至今沒有有系統地爬梳整理過。過去體育署有辦過相關的展覽，我發現了幾大問題：第一，我們目前的運動文物，可能重要賽事、重要選手相關文物分散在各機關，甚至可能在民間，然後權責不清，保存的人才過去不夠專業，所以現在已經入法我覺得非常重要。今天署長和部長都在，我希望運動部對於臺灣的運動文化記憶保存要做妥善的規劃，然後我們可以趕快來開始進行，著手建立臺灣的運動發展史。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，其實盤點的部分我們一直在進行，但加值應用以及展覽的部分，的確很多地方要跟文化部來學習，這部分我們在規劃時一定會往這方向來進行，謝謝。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員，謝謝署長。"],["主席（范委員雲代）：現在我代主席，我們請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。今天一上午主持會議，讓我最驚豔的就是對於即將成立的運動部，部長不減雄心壯志，不排除未來也來擔任運動部的部長，是這樣嘛！不排除嘛！有這可能嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我想我們就把事情做好……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，那我們假設……"],["鄭部長英耀：因為剛才有委員指名好幾個，不要讓他們為難……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，假設未來您是運動部長，您自己有興趣的是哪個項目？總是要有項目吧！"],["鄭部長英耀：我其實從年輕一直有多項的運動。"],["鍾委員佳濱：哪一項你比較……"],["鄭部長英耀：我玩帆船，我打桌球，我打網球，我打籃球、打棒球、打排球、打手球，真的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：帆船、桌球、網球、籃球、棒球、排球、手球，很好！很多，至少七項。我想說我也不排除我未來是運動部的部長人選，但是我只有一個項目就是游泳。","好，我們來回應一下，我們看到今天委員提出很多質詢，這是我在今天質詢開始前就寫出來的幾個問題。部長您出身教育界，之前是老師，從初等教育到高等教育您都經歷過，您覺得體育跟教育有什麼關聯？"],["鄭部長英耀：簡單來講，就如同委員講的，體育它其實不只是運動，它除了有運動以外，它也有一些……"],["鍾委員佳濱：教育的手段。"],["鄭部長英耀：有一些教育的內涵元素在裡面，譬如包括健康、包括營養……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，很好。那運動呢？運動是什麼？針對運動，我這邊寫出來的就是追求成就，可以消愁解悶，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是一個。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。我想今天我們來做一些基本的探索，我這邊列了八項，今天可能大家都有談到這些問題。其實我想要關心的就是教育跟體育的關聯，有的委員在關心運動跟教育的差異，以及體育署原本在教育部之下的角色和功能，還有未來運動部成立之後和教育部的分工關係，是不是今天很多委員都集中在這四點？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我接下來就這四個比較專注的項目來跟你請教，包括運動教練跟體育教師的差異，你覺得教練跟體育老師有什麼差別？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想運動教練他……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我直接告訴你，體育老師不會因為學生成績不好被fire，但是體育運動教練可能因為隊伍表現不佳，他就沒有飯碗了，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：有可能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：再者我也關心在學的選手和他在學校的關係，另外我們也談到教練的權益和保障，以及未來的考評，是不是這樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：今天很多委員也關心在學選手的學習權益以及運動生涯的發展，以下這四個項目我就要來跟你請教，我們提到球員轉隊遭禁賽是因為惡意挖角，為什麼會有這個項目呢？譬如A縣市的國小選手，因為雙親在B縣市工作，他畢業後就到B縣市的國中，結果就因為這樣的關係被禁賽兩年，署長你剛好來了，請問署長有這樣的情況嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，針對國小的部分，這學期開始已經解除了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：已經解除了？好。那如果就讀A高中，他跟甲教練一起，結果甲教練轉到B高中，所以這選手要跟去B高中，糟糕了，這選手又被禁賽，署長，這種情況怎麼解決？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，這部分我們是由高中體總組成一個審查委員會，由這個委員會針對個案去做審查。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長，我就用這個例子讓你知道為什麼我們重視在學選手跟學校的關係，因為選手本身跟教練非常密切，他的職業、他在運動上的發展跟他的學習是兩個路線，因此他為了運動生涯，他可能會去改變他的學校學習路徑，你同意之後針對這個部分加以檢討嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想是的，包含這一次的運動部，我們也希望從社區或學校裡面的運動著手，確實有的是在小學的時候打桌球，結果國中的時候，因為社區的國中沒有桌球這個項目……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，我了解，所以我就是請部長未來在所謂的在學選手跟學校的關係……"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我們會整體……"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外，針對教練的部分，很多體育協會、運動協會沒有依照規定辦理教練研習，我們看了一下，未達成比率高達六成以上。針對這個部分，辦理教練講習攸關教練證展期的重大權益，請問署長，未來這個部分是由運動部來follow嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["鄭署長世忠：是的，最重要是會影響到他的年度考核，以及年度計畫的金額，這些都會影響到。"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外是在役選手申請轉任教練的預算執行率偏低，部長請你看一下，過去體育署在教育部之下，從109年到113年，轉任教練的執行率偏低，請問部長，未來如果運動部成立，這部分是由運動部來執行，還是教育部繼續follow？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是由運動部……"],["鍾委員佳濱：由運動部，很好！"],["鄭部長英耀：專任教練是運動部。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，最後我在這邊提點，未來部長如果到運動部當部長的話，許多協會沒有辦理教練研習，在役選手轉任教練的執行率偏低，選手轉學遭禁賽，這個標準請您研議來放寬好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這我們來努力、來研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你答應當運動部長了嘛，謝謝你，鼓掌一下。","最後我提出一個結論，請你通盤檢討各單項體育協會監督不彰的弊病，運動部應該投入資源來解決長期的問題，也請未來通盤檢討在役選手申請轉任教練的相關規定，以配合在學選手生涯規劃。另外，對於惡意挖角的處分，應該處分惡意挖角的學校或教練，不應該讓學生來承擔苦果，尤其最後一項，你現在擔任教育部長就可以承諾，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝部長，謝謝署長，未來的運動部長，謝謝！"],["主席：部長請回，謝謝鍾佳濱委員的質詢。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱）：接下來有請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","有請翁曉玲委員，翁曉玲委員，翁曉玲委員不在。","有請郭委員昱晴發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156804","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156804","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678353613bd1623fa509fc666e425fd8fe7ea236d48226e86be296ad41e3562adc05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:53:18 - 12:00:17","影片長度":"00:06:59","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:53:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T12:00:17+08:00","duration":419,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":1.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.78909375,"end":16.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.00346875,"end":14.037218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.762843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.78784375,"end":17.395343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.289718750000002,"end":19.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.871593750000002,"end":21.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22.137218750000002,"end":22.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.64346875,"end":22.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.94284375,"end":24.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.242218750000003,"end":26.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.89596875,"end":43.180343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.351593750000003,"end":28.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.75409375,"end":47.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.782843750000005,"end":54.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.53721875,"end":62.04659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.35034375,"end":64.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.11784375,"end":66.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.22721875,"end":69.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.84284375,"end":71.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.18846875,"end":87.22409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.07784375,"end":79.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.40971875000001,"end":93.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.99096875000001,"end":94.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.88096875000001,"end":95.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":95.96534375,"end":96.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.74159375,"end":96.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.75846875,"end":102.39471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.63534375,"end":114.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.07221875,"end":114.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.08909375,"end":115.89471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.10596875,"end":123.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.46346875,"end":121.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.22284375000001,"end":127.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.67346875000001,"end":128.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.47909375,"end":131.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.63909375,"end":134.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.03096875,"end":137.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.47784375,"end":137.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.98409375,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.29596875000001,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.37159375000002,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.53159375,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.42159375,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.77159375000002,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.05409375000002,"end":150.31971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.70346875,"end":154.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.58909375000002,"end":158.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.99346875,"end":160.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.01846875,"end":163.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.97159375,"end":171.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":172.00409375,"end":176.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":176.96534375000002,"end":179.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":179.96909375,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.31034375000002,"end":191.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.37284375000002,"end":203.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":200.84346875,"end":203.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.91471875000002,"end":208.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.06159375000001,"end":210.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.13721875000002,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.03159375,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.60534375,"end":212.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.63909375,"end":215.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.49096875,"end":223.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.93284375000002,"end":223.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.48971875,"end":224.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.35034375,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.97471875000002,"end":232.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.82159375,"end":232.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.88909375,"end":232.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.97346875000002,"end":249.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.91784375,"end":238.00221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.84846875000002,"end":253.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.15159375000002,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.02471875000003,"end":257.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.08346875,"end":266.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.79096875,"end":274.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.95034375,"end":274.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.02596875,"end":277.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.18596875000003,"end":277.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.86096875000004,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.89471875000004,"end":278.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.18159375,"end":278.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.03346875,"end":281.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.13471875,"end":281.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.42159375,"end":284.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.15534375000004,"end":302.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.49409375000005,"end":303.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.51096875,"end":306.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.56534375,"end":307.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.28221875,"end":311.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.49284375,"end":315.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.53409375,"end":321.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.21284375000005,"end":321.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.43221875,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.03534375000004,"end":324.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.85784375000003,"end":324.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.87471875,"end":327.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.54096875000005,"end":333.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.97034375000004,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.52659375,"end":339.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.54346875000005,"end":339.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.40409375,"end":339.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.50534375,"end":341.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.90159375,"end":343.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.43284375,"end":347.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.20034375,"end":347.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.26784375,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.33534375000005,"end":349.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.00159375000004,"end":351.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.19971875000005,"end":351.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.60471875,"end":354.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.68846875,"end":356.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.44346875,"end":357.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.18159375000005,"end":360.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.62846875,"end":362.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.68721875,"end":366.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.16346875000005,"end":369.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.96471875000003,"end":370.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.80409375000005,"end":375.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.38159375000004,"end":375.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.07346875,"end":378.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.59596875,"end":382.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.89096875,"end":384.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.67971875,"end":384.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.15221875000003,"end":386.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.51471875000004,"end":389.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.13471875000005,"end":389.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.37096875000003,"end":389.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.97846875000005,"end":391.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":391.12596875,"end":404.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.43221875,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.96971875,"end":419.12159375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.343,"end":10.794,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":23.991,"end":25.792,"text":"今天沒有漁業署啊?"},{"start":25.792,"end":47.404,"text":"有沒有代表?先問兩個有關漁業署相關的問題就是蒙古籍洪聖巴巴在潔定灣海那個擱淺嘛那造成這個漁產損失啊這部分還打跨國輸送礦入廢食而且要花很多錢這部分有沒有可能由農業部出面來漁業署來代位求賞?"},{"start":48.912,"end":71.154,"text":"報告那個目前的部分都是由所謂的民間自己來去做那沒有辦法現在沒有辦法那你們如果按照海難災害防救業務計畫如果有造成漁損海難事故造成漁損由農業部協助漁民求償嘛這是這個計畫的鑰匙嘛那你過去有相關的案例那這個案例能不能比照辦理"},{"start":72.37,"end":94.11,"text":"報告那個過去的部分的案例大概都是我們協助來去做保全證據的部分跟愚民的部分這不你有協助嗎我們都在上次的阿瑪那個得獎的部分也是用同樣的方式並沒有戴維球場這件事情你們考慮一下啦齁如果用戴維球場由公部門來介入效果會比較好啦這個部長"},{"start":96.814,"end":114.991,"text":"我個人覺得我會後回去了解詳細的情形我覺得這要有一個制度性的啦對,你要接受制度有些這個待會球場的效果比由民間、由漁民自己去組成這個球場力道可能會由公部門組成會比較好一點我個人會就是說"},{"start":117.253,"end":122.575,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":146.465,"end":148.145,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":172.311,"end":186.608,"text":"其實他所負責的這些漁港的維護還有包括養殖的部分其實有一些不足的地方那這個部分我想我們會來去想辦法去處理因為魚也特別是漁港的部分雖然說是二類漁港縣市政府"},{"start":187.008,"end":206.286,"text":"但是農業部不能推脫這個責任我覺得應該要有一個協助的機制我覺得非常非常開心也非常非常欣慰不能說阿列漁養屬於市政府主管那這個漁業署就完全不管對我們應該還是要有協助的方式我們會來看看用什麼方式來處理這個那個為野生東額走11月10號那個"},{"start":210.409,"end":213.551,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":225.581,"end":252.602,"text":"這件作為目前大概我以我們部理院目前現行的做法就是多管齊下因地制宜那第二個這是原則啦對具體的做法要很清楚的告訴包括地方政府要怎麼配合是很多地方政府他沒有辦法有達成你們相關的這個要求沒錯所以你說你要認領養的循環到一定程度你的這個部分林撲殺才能達到這個你政策目的對不對沒錯"},{"start":254.215,"end":256.076,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":275.123,"end":279.145,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":303.539,"end":323.941,"text":"都沒有辦法達成這個年度目標,所以它必須辦保留。很多這種狀況都地方政府沒辦法執行。你地方政府沒辦法配合的話,你這個林木柏沙就沒辦法落實。市長,你要瞭解問題在哪裡。有,委員我這不清楚,對。那針對這些相對比較消極的地方政府,"},{"start":324.915,"end":342.362,"text":"你有沒有什麼好的對策目前的話我們會依據各地方政府的一些執行的一些狀況去調整這些的所謂的協助那這部分我們會去做一個動態的一個滾動的一個處理我是選在永安有一個永安區永安區這個"},{"start":344.605,"end":350.568,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":371.877,"end":385.839,"text":"所以你為什麼精進作為為什麼要有這個為這個為這個為這個野生動物而走就是你目前做法太過於這個消極對策不對"},{"start":387.574,"end":390.837,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":799,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時53分）謝謝主席。有請農業部陳部長、動保司江司長，及漁業署代表。"],["主席：請陳部長、江司長及漁業署代表。"],["邱委員志偉：先問兩個有關於漁業署相關問題，就是蒙古籍鴻盛88輪在茄萣外海擱淺，造成漁產損失，這部分還要打跨國訴訟，曠日廢時，而且要花很多錢，這部分有沒有可能由農業部漁業署出面來代位求償？"],["陳副署長建佑：報告，目前都是由民間自己去做，現在沒有辦法……"],["邱委員志偉：按照海難災害防救業務計畫，如果海難事故造成漁損，由農業部協助漁民求償，這是這個計畫的要旨，過去也有相關案例，那這個案例能不能比照辦理？"],["陳副署長建佑：報告，過去的案例大概都是我們協助做保全證據的部分跟漁民的部分……"],["邱委員志偉：這部分你有協助嗎？"],["陳副署長建佑：在上次德翔的部分，也是用同樣的方式，並沒有代位求償這件事情。"],["邱委員志偉：你們考慮一下啦，如果用代位求償，由公部門來介入，效果會比較好。"],["陳部長駿季：會後我會去瞭解詳細情形，我覺得這個要有一個制度性的做法，特別是……"],["邱委員志偉：對，要建立制度，有代位求償，其效果比由民間、由漁民自己去求償的力道更強，所以由公部門主導可能會比較好一點，這部分回去研究一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我個人覺得，在某個前提之下，也許我們可以介入用代位求償的方式來協助，我們會來研議看看。"],["邱委員志偉：把它制度化。"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，茄萣的情人碼頭您去過嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：雖然是屬於二類漁港，主管權是在地方政府，但是地方政府主管單位由過去高雄縣時代的農業局，變成高雄市政府時代的海洋局，你知道地方政府財源有限，過去曾經有榮景，有很多的遊客，那現在呢？因為缺乏管理，缺少預算，情人碼頭風華不再。針對這個部分，我希望漁業署能夠拿出比較積極的作為，協調各單位，包括高雄市政府，包括國產署，能夠把情人碼頭再度活化，對於這部分，部長，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，包括剛才蔡易餘委員有提到，就是漁業署本身經費的編列，它所負責的這些漁港的維護，還有包括養殖的部分，其實有一些不足的地方，這個部分我們會想辦法去處理，因為漁業，特別是漁港的部份，雖然是二類漁港，由縣市政府主管，但是農業部不能推托這個責任，我覺得應該要有協助的機制。"],["邱委員志偉：是。聽到部長這樣說，我覺得非常非常開心，也非常非常欣慰，不能說二類漁港屬於市政府主管，漁業署就完全不管。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們應該還是要有協助的方式，我們會來看看用什麼方式來處理。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝。","「為野生動物而走」在11月10日舉行，江司長有沒有去？"],["江司長文全：我有到現場。"],["邱委員志偉：有到現場？"],["江司長文全：對。"],["邱委員志偉：他們的訴求是什麼？"],["江司長文全：他們的訴求有三點，第一個就是針對現在流浪犬的控制，要有一些精進。第二個部分，針對生態的一些特區……"],["邱委員志偉：精進的作為你提出來了沒有？"],["江司長文全：精進的作為，目前以我們部裡面現行的做法，就是多管齊下，因地制宜。"],["邱委員志偉：這是原則，但是具體的作為要很清楚，包括告訴地方政府要怎麼配合。很多地方政府沒有辦法達成你們相關的要求。"],["江司長文全：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你說認領養的循環要到一定程度，零撲殺才能達到政策目的，對不對？"],["江司長文全：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：我想請教一下，認領養循環到一定程度是到什麼程度？"],["江司長文全：基本上，應該是從收容所的周轉率來看，基本上是從進來的狗跟出去的狗來比較，而出去的狗，不管是認領養，或者是其他管道的部分，會維持平衡，那這樣的族群才有可能去減少控制。那另外一塊就是關於棄養……"],["邱委員志偉：就是收容所的問題嘛？"],["江司長文全：對。"],["邱委員志偉：收容所是誰主管？地方政府？"],["江司長文全：沒錯。"],["邱委員志偉：地方政府有強、有弱，有積極、有消極。"],["江司長文全：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你針對消極的地方政府，怎麼辦？"],["江司長文全：目前的部分，我們採取兩個措施，第一個，經費挹注的部分，我們還是會考慮到地方財政的一些差異。第二個部分，在人力的部分，中央對地方有一些補助的人力，也是針對相對比較匱乏的一些縣市，優先去處理。"],["邱委員志偉：你看新北市、新竹縣、臺中市都沒有辦法達成年度目標，所以必須要辦保留，很多這種狀況，地方政府沒有辦法執行，地方政府沒有辦法配合的話，零撲殺就沒有辦法落實，司長，你要了解問題在哪裡。"],["江司長文全：有，委員，這個我們清楚，對。"],["邱委員志偉：那針對這些相對比較消極的地方政府，你有沒有什麼好的對策？"],["江司長文全：目前我們會依據各地方政府執行狀況去調整相關協助，這個部分我們會去做一個動態的、滾動的處理。"],["邱委員志偉：我的選區在永安區，永安區的「浪浪」很兇，去游泳、去晨泳的人都被咬傷，一個永安區人口一萬多，大概有400隻的「浪浪」，由一個區域擴大到整個全國來看，這種現象代表說你們有效管理並沒有發揮作用，所以為什麼要問你有什麼精進作為？為什麼要有「為野生動物而走」的活動？就是你們目前的做法太過於消極，對策不對，對策要對，才能發揮作用，部長，你了解這個問題嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我了解。第一個部分，現在我們的熱區已經down到村里的部分，可是我們還是用計畫的方式提供給他們經費，他們去處理……"],["邱委員志偉：我想繼續問，但是我要遵守時間，剩下的問題我用書面提供給農業部、提供給動保司，請針對我的書面質詢的部分，再予以詳細答復。"],["陳部長駿季：好。謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝召委。請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156803","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156803","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783280a34c127ee8eb5158c0789247a306ea236d48226e86be2dfc6c4b509e5c9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:51:49 - 11:59:30","影片長度":"00:07:41","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:51:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:59:30+08:00","duration":461,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.26284375,"end":1.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.45159375,"end":9.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.71721875,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.168468750000002,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.872218750000002,"end":17.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.03659375,"end":20.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.090968750000002,"end":24.617843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.719093750000003,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.204093750000002,"end":28.465343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.937843750000003,"end":31.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.32534375,"end":34.759718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.962218750000005,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.409093750000004,"end":39.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.197843750000004,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.31159375,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.16784375,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.66971875,"end":44.665343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.64409375,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.799718750000004,"end":49.525343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.86284375,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.99721875,"end":57.524093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.743468750000005,"end":59.93721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.713468750000004,"end":61.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.19846875,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.70034375,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.69971875,"end":69.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.16346875,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.92659375000001,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.56721875000001,"end":78.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.68534375,"end":86.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.83596875,"end":90.81846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.17284375000001,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.54784375000001,"end":119.87721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.10346875,"end":103.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.87721875000001,"end":122.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.06659375000001,"end":125.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.00284375000001,"end":129.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":132.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.24221875,"end":134.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.18284375000002,"end":136.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.33846875,"end":139.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.87409375000001,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.91596875000002,"end":142.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.18159375000002,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.44284375,"end":147.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.90659375,"end":151.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.99034375000002,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.66096875000002,"end":154.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.26409375,"end":158.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.66846875000002,"end":160.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.38971875000001,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.75659375,"end":169.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.35471875000002,"end":175.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.05409375000002,"end":177.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.58971875,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.42471875,"end":183.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.32284375,"end":186.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.20409375,"end":189.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.57096875000002,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.52409375000002,"end":194.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.81909375,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.35034375,"end":200.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.91096875000002,"end":201.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.04159375,"end":203.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.74159375000002,"end":206.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.74971875,"end":211.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.57596875000002,"end":214.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.88346875000002,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.92971875,"end":219.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.82784375000003,"end":223.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.96221875,"end":226.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.05034375000002,"end":228.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.31159375000001,"end":229.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.30721875,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.51784375000003,"end":243.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.31346875000003,"end":245.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.74346875,"end":247.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.41409375,"end":252.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.54846875,"end":254.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.09659375,"end":259.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.97346875,"end":261.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.50471875,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.75346875,"end":265.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.03159375,"end":280.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.35409375,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.64471875000004,"end":284.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.96909375,"end":289.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.60159375,"end":294.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.97221875,"end":300.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.80659375000005,"end":303.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.29159375,"end":305.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.83971875000003,"end":308.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.05846875000003,"end":313.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.65284375000005,"end":318.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.88034375,"end":316.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.00659375000004,"end":322.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.52471875000003,"end":328.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.84034375000005,"end":338.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.75846875,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.59284375000004,"end":359.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.16471875,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.59471875,"end":372.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.76596875,"end":376.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.63034375,"end":377.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.94659375000003,"end":379.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.65096875,"end":381.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.04721875,"end":385.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.26596875,"end":393.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.29846875000004,"end":405.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.48221875,"end":418.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.12159375000005,"end":425.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.61846875000003,"end":444.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.02471875000003,"end":458.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.17034375000003,"end":460.81971875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":9.187,"text":"麻煩有請部長來 部長請Sir 黃委員好"},{"start":9.981,"end":31.746,"text":"部長美國總統當選的川普他宣布了說他會任命退役的陸軍軍官當然絕大多數的媒體大家報導都是他是福斯電視台的主持人但我覺得他比較重要的背景是他其實長期待在軍隊當中"},{"start":33.446,"end":44.419,"text":"右左邊列出來的是他在服役的期間當中曾經得過的勳章、獎項待過阿富汗、待過伊拉克、也待過古巴"},{"start":45.943,"end":62.393,"text":"當然在這樣子的一個軍事背景的背後早上我也看到了部長說對於他出任國防部部長是樂觀其成我們尊重美國的民主程序我們當然也會尊重美國的總統準總統對於他未來國防部長"},{"start":67.748,"end":93.23,"text":"任命的權利當然從台灣的角度來講我們會比較關心的事情是說對台灣所會造成的衝擊所會造成的影響以及台灣跟美國未來在合作上面是不是會因此產生什麼樣子的變化部長對於這位即將要出任美國國防部部長的Hexes有基本的認識嗎"},{"start":94.985,"end":121.787,"text":"我的理解是他還相當的年輕嘛是1980年出生的那有念過這個然後後來到2013年去念哈佛那從軍的經歷對他的當然影響應該是很大那川普在介紹他當然是強調是他非常的重視美國優先這樣子您知道他為什麼不想要待在軍中嗎"},{"start":123.763,"end":150.49,"text":"這個我沒有掌握我跟部長說明一下這個是11月8號的時候他接受一個YouTuber訪問的時候那訪問的內容從他的觀點來講從我們的術語來看他對中國絕對是一個硬派在他眼中看起來中國正在打造一個可以擊敗美國的軍隊"},{"start":153.966,"end":173.551,"text":"當然過去這幾年他可以說是非常的out spoken對於美國的軍隊在過去這幾年當然我必須要先強調我們不宜介入美國共和黨跟民主黨他們之間政黨的競爭但是不同的政策立場的確會影響到台灣"},{"start":176.272,"end":186.353,"text":"在這個專訪旁邊放了一本書那個書我把它放大長成這個樣子叫做《Rule on Warriors》"},{"start":188.226,"end":205.903,"text":"他大概描述了他在軍中服役的過程那以及他所看到對於民主黨的政府可能在對於軍隊讓這一些在服役的軍人沒有得到必要的尊重沒有得到必要的尊重"},{"start":206.804,"end":230.65,"text":"而這樣的心情對於他離開軍隊產生非常大的影響所以某個程度上面來講他的確是川普在實踐美國優先政策的時候去任命他當國防部部長這樣子的一個背景這樣子的一個政策立場老實說令人並不意外但是看了"},{"start":232.597,"end":260.685,"text":"相關對於他這本書所描述心情的報導其實我覺得對我們台灣某個程度上有一點啟發那個啟發是說我們必須要讓在我們軍隊當中冒險犯難為國家出生入職的軍人我們一定整個社會要給他們支持跟尊重這樣子的話才會讓我們這一些國軍的弟兄願意繼續為這個國家"},{"start":262.766,"end":283.455,"text":"來分展那我相信這樣子的立場會繼續的延續到會繼續的延續到他上任國防部部長以後因為對中鷹派這樣子的立場一定會去影響到我們跟美國在軍事合作上面政策的調整那最後一件事情主席我可以再問兩個問題嗎?謝謝就兩個問題非常快的問題好謝謝"},{"start":291.189,"end":313.159,"text":"這個就直接牽涉到了因為financial Times對台灣很熟悉的Catherine Hill放出這樣子的消息部長你有沒有掌握這個消息是誰放的我不清楚但不會是我們的政府人員吧我了解應該不會是我們國防部但是是不是其他政府人員你沒有辦法掌握"},{"start":314.798,"end":328.276,"text":"我沒有辦法回答幫國防部以外的人回答我老實講就是說這種嚴肅的事情我認為希望我希望不是我們政府部門放的"},{"start":329.057,"end":345.809,"text":"因為對整件事情到底是有幫助還是會造成障礙其實還很難說當然總統府在第一時間說目前沒有新一個階段的討論所以總統府的發言算是否認嗎部長您的理解"},{"start":346.933,"end":371.398,"text":"我覺得總統的發言跟我之前的回答是一致的也就是說我們會循台美既有的這一個綿密的制度性的交流的機制來提出我們所要籌購的這一個項目那F35在清單上嗎我沒有辦法對特定的這個任何武器的裝備做下一回答因為我們對任何的這一個個別的武器的裝備我們都會先跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":372.813,"end":380.862,"text":"因為我看到總統府這個發言以後我有點驚訝因為去年在國會的時候其實已經有立委問過了"},{"start":382.319,"end":405.755,"text":"當然前一任的國防部部長回答的比較率直就是我們曾經有提過採購的需求但是美方沒有同意這個是在立法院公報上面記載的內容就你接任國防部部長以後美國就這件事情的態度有改變嗎還是維持去年的前國防部部長在這個委員會裡面回答立委問題的時候沒有同意"},{"start":406.873,"end":424.022,"text":"呃我想呃現在呃呃對我我想我還是同樣的說明我們對於個別的這個項目沒有辦法在呃在這裡做一個公開的一個說明那我們認為符合我們這個提升自我防衛能力的這個部分我們都會跟美方來進行溝通這樣"},{"start":427.344,"end":444.454,"text":"時間的關係我最後只講一件事情強化我國的國防自主防衛能力我相信不分黨派的委員大家都支持那只不過在進行相關事件的時候部長您謹慎的態度我基本上是認同的"},{"start":445.234,"end":457.438,"text":"因此我也希望這一次financial ties所出現的那個報導不是我們政府人員放話因為我覺得這樣對整件事到底是主力還是助力恐怕會是一個很大的問號"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":626,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時51分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。美國總統當選人川普宣布會任命退役陸軍軍官出任國防部長，當然絕大多數媒體報導的都是他是福斯電視臺的主持人，但我覺得他比較重要的背景其實是長期待在軍隊當中，投影片右手邊列出來的是他在服役期間曾經得過的勳章、獎項，他待過阿富汗、待過伊拉克，也待過古巴。在這樣的軍事背景背後，早上我也看到部長說對於他出任國防部部長樂觀其成。我們尊重美國的民主程序，當然也會尊重美國準總統對於他未來國防部長任命的權力。","當然，從臺灣的角度來講，我們會比較關心的事情是對臺灣會造成的衝擊、會造成的影響，以及臺灣跟美國未來在合作上面是不是會因此產生什麼樣的變化。部長對於這位即將出任美國國防部部長的Hegseth有基本的認識嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我的理解是他還相當年輕嘛！是1980年出生的，念過……"],["黃委員國昌：Princeton。"],["顧部長立雄：Princeton，後來2013年好像去念哈佛。當然從軍經歷對他的影響應該很大，川普在介紹他時，強調他非常重視美國優先。"],["黃委員國昌：您知道他為什麼不想再待在軍中嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這個我沒有掌握。"],["黃委員國昌：我跟部長說明一下，這是11月8日他接受一位YouTuber訪問時的訪問內容。從他的觀點來講、從我們的術語來看，他對中國絕對是一個鷹派，在他眼中看起來，中國正在打造一個可以擊敗美國的軍隊。當然，過去這幾年，他可以說非常outspoken，對於美國的軍隊在過去這幾年……當然我必須先強調，我們不宜介入美國共和黨跟民主黨之間的政黨競爭，但是不同的政策立場的確會影響臺灣。在這個專訪場地旁邊放了一本書，我把那本書放大後是長這個樣子，書名叫做「The War on Warriors」，大概描述了他在軍中服役的過程，以及他看到民主黨政府面對軍隊時，可能讓這些在服役的軍人沒有得到必要的尊重，而這樣的心情對於他離開軍隊產生非常大的影響。所以在某個程度上來講，在川普實踐美國優先政策的時候，任命他當國防部長，以他這樣的背景、這樣的政策立場，老實說並不令人意外。但是看了對於他這本書所描述心情的相關報導，其實我覺得對臺灣來說，在某個程度上有一點啟發，那個啟發是對於在軍隊當中冒險犯難、為國家出生入死的軍人，整個社會一定要給他們支持跟尊重，這樣的話才會讓這些國軍弟兄願意繼續為這個國家奮戰。我也相信這樣的立場會繼續延續到他上任國防部部長以後，因為對中鷹派這樣的立場一定會影響到我國跟美國在軍事合作上的政策調整。","最後一件事情，主席，我可以再問兩個問題嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：兩個問題喔！"],["黃委員國昌：就兩個問題，非常快的問題。"],["主席：儘快啦！好不好？"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。這個問題就直接牽涉到……因為Financial Times對臺灣很熟悉的Kathrin Hille放出這樣的消息，部長，你有沒有掌握這個消息是誰放的？"],["顧部長立雄：我不清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：但不會是我們的政府人員吧？"],["顧部長立雄：以我了解，應該不會是我們國防部。"],["黃委員國昌：但是不是其他政府人員，你沒有辦法掌握？"],["顧部長立雄：我沒有辦法幫國防部以外的人回答。"],["黃委員國昌：我老實講啦！這種嚴肅的事情，我認為、我希望不是我們的政府部門放的，因為對整件事情到底是有幫助還是會造成障礙，其實還很難說。當然，總統府在第一時間說目前沒有新一個階段的討論，所以總統府的發言算是否認嗎？部長，您的理解如何？"],["顧部長立雄：我覺得總統府的發言跟我之前的回答是一致的，也就是說我們會循臺美既有、綿密的制度性交流機制，提出我們所要籌購的項目，符合……"],["黃委員國昌：那F-35在清單上嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我現在沒有辦法針對任何特定武器裝備回答，因為我們對任何個別武器裝備都會先跟美方進行溝通。"],["黃委員國昌：我看到總統府這個發言以後有點驚訝啦！因為去年在國會其實已經有立委問過了，當然前一任國防部部長回答得比較率直啦！就是我們曾經提過採購需求，但是美方沒有同意，這是立法院公報上記載的內容。那在你接任國防部部長以後，美國對這件事情的態度有改變嗎？還是維持去年前國防部部長在這個委員會裡回答立委問題時的態度，沒有同意？"],["主席：請簡短。"],["顧部長立雄：我想，我還是同樣說明，對於個別項目沒有辦法在這裡作公開的說明，就我們認為符合提升自我防衛能力的部分，我們都會跟美方進行溝通。"],["主席：謝謝……"],["黃委員國昌：時間的關係啦！我最後只講一件事情，對於強化我國的國防自主防衛能力，我相信不分黨派的委員大家都支持，只不過在進行相關事件的時候，對於部長您謹慎的態度，我基本上是認同的，因此我也希望這次Financial Times所出現的那則報導不是由我們的政府人員放話，因為我覺得這樣對整件事到底是阻力還是助力恐怕會是個很大的問號。好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員，部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156800","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156800","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678fa1853d6463d2bad06c272e3b80411e8ce953f66f7e50605547386e0ae6c825b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:39:33 - 11:48:21","影片長度":"00:08:48","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:48:21+08:00","duration":528,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.22409375,"end":12.214718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.214718750000003,"end":12.974093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.974093750000002,"end":13.007843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.007843750000003,"end":13.750343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.032843750000001,"end":15.117218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.117218750000003,"end":15.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.29846875,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.61909375,"end":54.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.773468750000006,"end":72.44159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.03221875,"end":73.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.94346875000001,"end":74.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.44534375,"end":77.28471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.72346875000001,"end":80.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.65971875000001,"end":93.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.09659375000001,"end":95.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.08784375,"end":96.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.15096875,"end":99.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.23471875000001,"end":121.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.59846875000001,"end":150.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.58534375000002,"end":182.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.12909375,"end":182.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.15846875000003,"end":185.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.13284375,"end":185.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.18346875,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.74034375000002,"end":186.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.33909375000002,"end":189.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.73534375,"end":190.76909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.76909375000002,"end":194.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.07221875000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.28659375,"end":200.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.08596875,"end":258.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.84346875000003,"end":254.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.86034375000003,"end":255.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.92346875,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.56846875,"end":261.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.63596875,"end":266.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.16221875,"end":269.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.21659375,"end":270.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.23346875000004,"end":270.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.87471875,"end":275.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.12284375,"end":281.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.45096875,"end":284.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.49284375,"end":299.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.98409375,"end":308.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.71284375000005,"end":308.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.14721875000004,"end":310.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.48034375000003,"end":319.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.93096875000003,"end":316.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.30596875000003,"end":329.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.97096875,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.03409375,"end":333.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.68346875000003,"end":335.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.33284375,"end":336.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.88971875000004,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.07846875,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.03596875,"end":346.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.08659375,"end":348.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.94721875000005,"end":349.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.69784375,"end":354.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.86596875000004,"end":357.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.03846875000005,"end":367.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.70346875,"end":384.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.33534375000005,"end":374.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.43659375000004,"end":374.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.55471875,"end":374.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.73909375000005,"end":392.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.89909375,"end":385.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.84721875,"end":393.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.53909375,"end":404.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.88346875,"end":406.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.23721875,"end":409.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.51971875000004,"end":414.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.31221875,"end":420.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.39596875,"end":432.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.97596875000005,"end":433.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.02659375,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.97159375,"end":434.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.03909375,"end":438.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.74784375,"end":435.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.02159375,"end":443.84346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.18096875000003,"end":447.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.64034375000006,"end":450.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.64846875,"end":458.18721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.55534375,"end":451.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.74409375000005,"end":465.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.25346875,"end":473.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.52221875000004,"end":477.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.69471875000005,"end":479.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.95159375000003,"end":502.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.39971875000003,"end":504.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.03659375,"end":516.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.9797187500001,"end":522.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.08846875,"end":523.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.27409375,"end":528.48846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.703,"end":13.686,"text":"謝謝主席,主席請速發布黃部長還有資安署的謝署長請黃部長還有謝署長好,委員好部長好,同樣的我們延續剛剛的AI議題有幾個問題要請教部長還有署長來我們來做探討那我們今天要討論的是CHAT-GBTCHAT-GBT在2022年12月的時候推出那隨後在全球就掀起了浪潮"},{"start":33.813,"end":53.703,"text":"根據CHATGPT研發公司的資料顯示每週經常使用戶數有2億人由此可見深層市的AI已經成為了全球的主流趨勢和普及化本席就深層市AI所造成的潛在風險和未來發展的可能性請教部長還有署長"},{"start":54.984,"end":74.164,"text":"二〇二二年十二月之後公部門所有的直送設備還有所屬的場域全面禁用抖音還有TikTok公部門所配有的手機平板還有電腦都不能下載這兩款APP請問署長還有我們部長全面禁用抖音和TikTok的原因是什麼在當時第一個這個"},{"start":75.486,"end":76.726,"text":"議員提到的是各自的疑慮嗎?"},{"start":96.292,"end":121.229,"text":"關於資安的疑慮只要是對我們國家的資安有造成風險的疑慮本席都是贊成加強來做規範再來我們來看根據媒體報導去年5月2號的時候南韓的三星集團也在他們內部的信件有指出他們發現旗下的員工將敏感式的程式馬上傳至深層式AI的服務平台恐怕會導致商業機密外洩所以他們禁止員工在公司內部使用"},{"start":122.129,"end":143.04,"text":"公司所有的資訊設備上使用該類型的服務那違規者恐面臨就是解雇的命運那三星集團也在去年4月他們有進行問卷調查因為有6成5的員工他們認為深層室癌對於去夜的安全造成威脅那美國的資安公司也在2023年6月21號的時候公佈從2022年6月然後看到我們2023年5月他們的數據調查顯示有多達10萬個checkGPD的個資"},{"start":151.644,"end":168.159,"text":"外泄那在2023年的5月高達高峰那尤其有更重要的是那個報告還有指出洩漏區域以亞太地區最為嚴重居於榜首那其次是中東非洲還有歐洲那面對這個問題去年行政院他們也在8月的時候"},{"start":168.499,"end":187.805,"text":"通過行政院所屬的機關機構使用深層式AI參考指引那金管會也在今年6月20號通過金融業運用人工智慧AI指引代表深層式AI確實有資安盈利部長和署長你們知道這指引的內容嗎這個指引都知道那其中最重要的幾點可不可以就是"},{"start":190.742,"end":194.404,"text":"公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳公務資料不要上傳"},{"start":215.134,"end":230.904,"text":"另外這個指引有要求說我們要選用比較就是可信賴的服務但是就治安來說就治安來說其實只要是外部的不能做設定跟防護的你應該在使用上都是參考那也同步回應剛剛委員問到的其實我們會希望公務機關除了你"},{"start":236.408,"end":259.48,"text":"議員８議員"},{"start":259.6,"end":261.582,"text":"蘇發布是不是發展我們AI的科技主要的主管機構之一?"},{"start":276.358,"end":299.064,"text":"那其中那建立AI生態系算力還有資料收集還有能力的培育是在我們速發部沒有錯吧對有一部分工作是在我們這裡那既然速發部和資安署是我國公部門資訊安全相關業務的重要的機構那請問署長還有部長那關於生成式AI服務平台像是CHAT、GPT還有等相關應用的程式是否有危害國家之痛的疑慮呢"},{"start":300.083,"end":322.251,"text":"我們危害國家通安全的這個定義是針對中國製的設備的產品其實沒有若以這個那本席這邊要提到目前有很多國際知名的企業他們因為為了怕防止洩密他們他們禁用checkGPT那checkGPT在我們台灣目前呢這個我們就說就說我們政府有這個剛講指引"},{"start":324.392,"end":331.818,"text":"三星還有美國的蘋果呢?美國的蘋果、Amazon、Verizon、美國銀行還有花旗集團他們都禁止在他們內部公司使用那在我們台灣我們公部門是不是應該要禁止使用ChatGPT?"},{"start":349.718,"end":351.34,"text":"現在就是說不能再請那個署長說我們事實上執行裡面對這個有一些要求再說明一下"},{"start":367.859,"end":391.616,"text":"報告委員其實不管他的規定他現在的規定是只要是公務跟機密你都不應該傳上去但是我們會覺得說除了CHAT GPT之外所有要跟你要的資料因為現在所有的軟體跟所有的系統都試著要資料不是剛剛提到TikTok跟抖音部長有提到是中國嗎那現在CHAT GPT在美國像Apple跟Samsung Verizon他們也都是禁用的那這樣是不是有雙重標準"},{"start":393.702,"end":405.838,"text":"報告委員其實我們的指引跟相關的規範是你不應該把公務的東西傳給你不認識的人包含確GPT它後面的分析不知道是誰我們數位部有沒有使用過確GPT數位部有沒有"},{"start":409.811,"end":431.327,"text":"對阿,內部的人工或是你們正在建立一個AI生態系你們應該有去了解TPTN目前所提供的服務的內容大概是什麼樣吧有去研究生成式AI會用到好幾個工具包括Google的都有我們會了解他們的功能是什麼不過我們"},{"start":431.807,"end":457.018,"text":"我想他收集的數據不只是在Google吧是全球各網站的對就是我剛才有幾個重要就是剛才講這大型的那是不是如果是這樣子的話那再發布在我們臺灣新聞的話那其他在海外的用戶他也可以知道目前我們的國情像是軍力還有國防相關的我們沒有把我們這些資料拿去我不是說我是說CHAT GPT上面他只要透過在這個在這個這個OpenAI的服務上面他也可以知道我們目前現在臺灣的情況"},{"start":466.858,"end":479.148,"text":"府長本席認為啊那資安署應該針對我們公部門的各機關然後會涉及到機密的像是國防部然後還有外交部國安等單位啊本席認為應該要全面禁用GPT那府長和署長您的看法是"},{"start":481.038,"end":502.312,"text":"目前我執行裡面就是這樣說就是我們不能把公務的資料放到沒有人會把公務的資料放在CHAT GPT上面可是他如果說要做如果他拿不到我們資料他裡面的LRM就不會有我們的資料所以就不用擔心說別人會看到我們的資料因為他根本就是我們的資料不會給他用所以他根本看不到"},{"start":502.312,"end":527.197,"text":"您有沒有想過有可能我們會把就是相關的提問放上去之後是有可能會洩露就是對所以我們要講說公家機關裡面我們講說是公務的公務的是在提問的過程中對我知道所以就是說在這裡面我們講說在一些我們不應該用他來做我們公務的一些工作因為在這裡面的確是有可能那部長那請部長和署長我回去之後再演繹再給本席書面報告OK好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":663,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（11時39分）謝謝主席，請數發部的黃部長及資安署的謝署長。"],["主席：請黃部長及謝署長。"],["黃署長彥男：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。同樣的，我們延續剛剛的AI議題，有幾個問題要請教部長及署長，我們一起來探討。我們今天要討論的是ChatGPT，ChatGPT在2022年12月的時候推出，隨後就在全球掀起了浪潮，根據ChatGPT研發公司OpenAI的資料顯示，每週經常使用戶數有2億人，由此可見生成式AI已經成為全球的主流趨勢還有普及化，本席現就生成式AI所造成的潛在風險和未來發展的可能性就教於部長和署長。2022年12月之後，公部門所有的資通設備還有所屬的場域全面禁用抖音和TikTok，公部門所配有的手機、平板及電腦都不能下載這兩款app，請問署長和部長，當時全面禁用抖音和TikTok的原因是什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個就是像這種軟體都有可能會有個資的問題，因為我們會給它很多個資，所以會有個資外洩的疑慮，就是因為這樣的緣故，所以我們有規定，至少在公部門不准用抖音。"],["邱委員若華：部長您提到的是個資的疑慮。"],["黃部長彥男：個資跟資安。"],["邱委員若華：就是個資跟資安的疑慮，只要是對我們國家的資安有造成風險的疑慮，本席都贊成加強來做規範。根據媒體報導，去年5月2號，南韓三星集團也在他們內部的信件指出發現旗下員工將敏感式的程式碼上傳至生成式AI的服務平台，恐怕會導致商業機密外洩，所以他們禁止員工在公司內部所有的資訊設備上使用該類型的服務，違規者恐面臨解僱的命運。三星集團也在去年4月進行了問卷調查，有六成五的員工認為生成式AI對於企業的安全造成威脅；美國的資安公司Group-IB也在2023年6月21號公布，從2022年6月到2023年5月，根據他們的數據調查顯示，有多達10萬個ChatGPT的個資外洩，在2023年5月到達高峰。尤其更重要的是，那個報告還指出洩漏區域以亞太地區最為嚴重，高居榜首，其次是中東、非洲還有歐洲，面對這個問題，去年行政院也在8月的時候通過「行政院所屬機關（構）使用生成式AI參考指引」，金管會也在今年6月20號通過「金融業運用人工智慧（AI）指引」，代表生成式AI確實有資安疑慮。請問部長和署長，你們知道這個指引的內容嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個指引我知道。"],["邱委員若華：既然知道，可否指出其中最重要的幾點？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，第一個是公務的資料不要上傳，因為這是外面的，而且你也不能信任它到底會把你的資料拿去做什麼用。第二個是機敏資料不要完全上去。第三個指引是不要完全信任它給你的，因為它有些時候是自己創的，所以它給你的指導不能完全信任。另外，這個指引有要求我們要選用比較可信賴的服務，但是就資安來說，其實只要是外部的、不能做設定跟防護的，你應該在使用上都是參考，那也同步回應剛剛委員問到的，其實我們會希望公務機關所有用的軟體都應該要有原因，不是為了公務使用而是你自己的興趣的話，就不要在公務的場所去使用，所以有些時候有些軟體我們會覺得經過申請是合理且是他工作需要的，那當然是可以用，但是如果他只是為了個人的休閒……"],["邱委員若華：因為時間的關係，我這邊要請教部長一個問題，數發部是不是發展我們AI科技主要的主管機構之一？"],["黃部長彥男：對啦！是其中之一，我們是好幾個部會一起合作要做AI的發展跟管理。"],["邱委員若華：其中建立AI生態系、算力還有資料蒐集及人力的培育是在我們數發部，沒有錯吧？"],["黃部長彥男：對，有一部分工作是在我們這裡。"],["邱委員若華：既然數發部的資安署是我國公部門資訊安全相關業務的重要機構，那請問署長還有部長，生成式AI服務平台像是ChatGPT等相關應用程式是否有危害國家資通的疑慮呢？"],["黃部長彥男：我們對危害國家資通安全的定義是針對中國製的設備、產品，如果以這個……"],["邱委員若華：本席這邊要提到的是目前有很多國際知名企業為了防止洩密因此禁用ChatGPT，那ChatGPT在我們臺灣目前如何呢？"],["黃部長彥男：我們政府有參考指引嘛，至於私人企業就由他們自己去做決定，我們並沒有要求。"],["邱委員若華：請教部長，三星算不算是大的集團企業？"],["黃部長彥男：對，三星是他們自己決定。"],["邱委員若華：除了三星，還有美國的蘋果呢？還有Amazon、Verizon及美國的美國銀行、花旗集團，都禁止在他們內部公司使用。"],["黃部長彥男：這個也是他們自己決定的。"],["邱委員若華：那在我們臺灣，我們的公部門是不是應該要禁止使用ChatGPT？"],["黃部長彥男：我剛剛講過，這個東西是由各個單位自己去決定，那我們……"],["邱委員若華：對於目前我們行政院推出的指引，部長和署長認為力度夠嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：現在就是說不能把公……事實上我們的指引裡面對這個有一些要求，再請署長說明一下。"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，其實不管如何，現在的規定是只要是公務跟機密都不應該傳上去，但我們覺得除了ChatGPT之外，所有要跟你要的資料，因為現在所有的軟體跟所有的系統都試著跟你要資料，都不應該……"],["邱委員若華：剛才提到TikTok跟抖音，部長有提到是中國嘛，那現在說的ChatGPT，美國的Apple跟Samsung、Verizon他們也都是禁用的，這樣是不是有雙重標準？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，其實我們的指引跟相關的規範是你不應該把公務的東西傳給你不認識的人，包含ChatGPT後面的分析方不知道是誰。"],["邱委員若華：我們數位部內部的員工有沒有使用過ChatGPT？你們正在建立一個AI生態系，應該有去瞭解ChatGPT目前所提供的服務內容大概是什麼樣吧！"],["黃部長彥男：有去研究，因為生成式AI會用到好幾個工具，包括GAN-generate、Google等等都有，我們會瞭解它們的功能是什麼，不過我們……"],["邱委員若華：我想它收集的數據不只是在Google吧！是全球各網站。"],["黃部長彥男：我剛剛講過就是幾個重要的，就是大型語言模型……"],["邱委員若華：如果是這樣子的話，那在發布我們臺灣新聞時，其他在海外的用戶也可以知道目前我們的國情，比如軍力還有國防相關等等。"],["黃部長彥男：我們沒有把我們這些資料拿去……"],["邱委員若華：我不是說這個，是說在ChatGPT上面，只要透過這個OpenAI的服務，他也可以知道我們目前臺灣的情況。"],["黃部長彥男：如果有人把這個資料給它做訓練或是上傳才會，但是我們的機敏資料是不會上去的。"],["邱委員若華：是啦！但是本席認為資安署應該針對我們會涉及到機密的公部門各機關，像是國防部、外交部、國安等單位，要全面禁用ChatGPT，部長和署長的看法為何？"],["黃部長彥男：我們的指引目前就是這樣規範的，就是我們不能把公務的資料放到……"],["邱委員若華：沒有人會把公務的資料放在ChatGPT上面。"],["黃部長彥男：可是它如果拿不到我們的資料，它的LLM model就不會有我們的資料，所以就不用擔心別人會看到我們的資料，因為我們的資料不會給它用，所以它根本看不到。"],["邱委員若華：你有沒有想過我們會把相關的提問放上去，之後有可能會洩漏。"],["黃部長彥男：所以我們在公家機關裡面，公務的資料……"],["邱委員若華：我是說在提問的過程中。"],["黃部長彥男：對，我知道，所以在這裡面，我們不應該用它來做我們公務的一些工作，因為在這裡面的確是有可能……"],["邱委員若華：請部長和署長回去之後再研議，再給本席書面報告。謝謝！謝謝主席！"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝邱若華委員。","接下來邀請陳雪生委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156799","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156799","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678b97b8deea1198e1d06c272e3b80411e8ce953f66f7e50605004998842fe26b305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"11:30:17 - 11:39:19","影片長度":"00:09:02","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:30:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:19+08:00","duration":542,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.86596875,"end":4.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.87409375,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.712843750000001,"end":25.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.95096875,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.24534375,"end":32.447843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.447843750000004,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.44346875,"end":33.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.05096875,"end":34.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.362218750000004,"end":45.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.829718750000005,"end":49.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.11596875,"end":51.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.854093750000004,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.440343750000004,"end":55.954718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.52846875,"end":72.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.94784375,"end":73.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.39909375,"end":77.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.07784375,"end":78.14534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.14534375000001,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.44909375,"end":78.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.07346875,"end":79.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.14096875,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.13221875,"end":114.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.52784375,"end":115.70909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.70909375000001,"end":121.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.93596875,"end":124.06221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.41659375,"end":136.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.88721875000002,"end":138.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.13159375,"end":140.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.51534375,"end":148.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.91909375,"end":156.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.36096875,"end":157.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.04846875,"end":173.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.38784375,"end":185.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.70659375000002,"end":194.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.95409375,"end":196.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.96221875,"end":198.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.14346875,"end":200.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.84346875,"end":208.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.50471875000002,"end":212.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.16659375,"end":213.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.25909375,"end":215.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.67659375000002,"end":227.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.80971875,"end":238.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.44096875000002,"end":238.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.33534375000002,"end":240.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.26346875000002,"end":240.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.05659375000002,"end":249.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.02159375000002,"end":255.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.68721875000003,"end":261.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.62721875,"end":261.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.64409375,"end":262.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.13346875,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.85909375,"end":264.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.70284375,"end":268.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.95096875,"end":270.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.90846875,"end":271.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.22471875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.64409375,"end":291.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.83346875,"end":303.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.13534375,"end":321.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.87534375,"end":325.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.12346875000003,"end":337.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.66596875000005,"end":341.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.83409375,"end":343.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.50471875,"end":344.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.20909375,"end":352.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.97159375,"end":353.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.49034375,"end":355.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.27909375,"end":361.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.62846875,"end":392.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.80471875,"end":368.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.77971875000003,"end":433.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.73534375,"end":433.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.78596875000005,"end":433.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.98846875000004,"end":434.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.10659375,"end":434.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.42721875,"end":434.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.44409375000004,"end":434.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.57909375,"end":434.59596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.59596875000005,"end":434.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.61284375,"end":434.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.62971875000005,"end":434.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.64659375,"end":434.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.68034375,"end":434.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.71409375,"end":434.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.79846875000004,"end":435.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.81534375,"end":435.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.16971875,"end":435.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.55784375,"end":444.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.57471875000005,"end":435.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.56909375000004,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.92284375,"end":450.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.72409375,"end":452.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.00659375000004,"end":454.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.23846875000004,"end":457.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.46159375,"end":461.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.69721875000005,"end":464.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.02159375,"end":466.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.87346875000003,"end":473.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.86409375000005,"end":477.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.71596875000006,"end":508.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.98159375000006,"end":478.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.94659375000003,"end":486.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.10659375000006,"end":488.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.03596875000005,"end":514.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.2922187500001,"end":516.7434687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.94596875,"end":524.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.8772187500001,"end":537.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.12096875,"end":531.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.75284375,"end":541.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.96346875,"end":540.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.7859687499999,"end":541.81971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.875,"end":5.417,"text":"請黃部長請黃部長部長好今天要跟您請教這個國家數位任性的問題那相關的如果說有關單位一起陪同沒關係在今年7月的時候這個全球的這個"},{"start":26.032,"end":26.852,"text":"請問一下我們速發部我們有沒有思考過畢竟"},{"start":53.839,"end":77.16,"text":"這國際上沒有永遠的朋友沒有永遠的敵人那在考慮在考慮數位任性這件事情上面其實全球所有的無論是公部門或私部門對於微軟的依賴都是非常的深那如果有一天微軟停止了提供我們台灣中華民國的軟體的服務那我們國家會發生什麼事情你們做過相關的評估"},{"start":79.299,"end":106.234,"text":"報告委員那個目前當然我們系統有兩種一種是微軟一種是Ninux就是open source的對Ninux對所以就是說基本上我想就是在很多的服務上就是像backend server的雲端就不見得是微軟我們有用到很多的雲端的服務所以就是說我們當然微軟是我們現在最主要的那個在像在前端的desktop的一些應用可是就是說第一個我覺得這個微軟會"},{"start":108.175,"end":108.736,"text":"議員８廖先翔議員８"},{"start":136.937,"end":137.278,"text":"﹚廖先翔﹗"},{"start":148.973,"end":172.95,"text":"除了這個這個金融系統一定還有各行部包括我們所有的政府機關的跨部會的一些公文系統電腦等等的全部都是用微軟嗎沒有我們現在有一些這個用open source啦像openoffice就不見得會microsoft的office所以的確那個有很多軟體我們是盡量的走open source走public code這樣去做那這樣就是因為讓我們比較能夠掌控"},{"start":173.891,"end":196.433,"text":"所以沒關係那我問部長那部長的意思應該是我們可能我們的數位部沒有做過相關的評估啦應該是沒有所以說你們可能沒有辦法跟我說他會對我們造成多大的一個衝擊那這件事情我希望我們這個數發部能夠重視因為未來世界會怎麼樣我們不知道因為包括美中的一個衝突等等的"},{"start":197.054,"end":199.096,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：廖先翔"},{"start":214.449,"end":214.469,"text":"委員７"},{"start":234.787,"end":254.628,"text":"那對於我們的國家無論是政府部門或民間部門的衝擊會有劇烈的程度可以嗎評估好我們就是再請我們的部門做評估不過我還是講就是說我們走向open source也是我們的一個effort是這絕對要走了所以我也是第二個部分就是請教我們部長第一個部長你要多少時間你先講"},{"start":255.765,"end":260.367,"text":"其實這份報告也不只是給立法院應該是要給我們所有有關的部門讓他們知道未來如果發生這件事情的時候他們會怎麼樣"},{"start":272.273,"end":290.796,"text":"他們可能不知道會怎麼樣嘛對不對那包括未來剛剛那以及下一個部分我們的Linux我們可能需要用Linux來重建我們的國家的系統包括國家優先那可能民間其次你們有沒有評估過需要多久的時間能夠用Linux至少大體上去取代微軟的系統"},{"start":291.872,"end":311.449,"text":"就是這個沒有評估過但是我們可以再但是就是像委員講就是我們逐步的減少對proprietary的那個系統的依賴所以當然就是我們逐步在在在就是包括像AI我們要講主權的AI就是我們要有自己的model像這種事情我們都在做"},{"start":311.849,"end":312.349,"text":"司法部長"},{"start":341.749,"end":361.596,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":361.596,"end":381.323,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":381.523,"end":389.826,"text":"我們有提供像AI算力池我們有個計畫就是在建算力池讓民間的公司能夠來用我們的算力池因為AI的設備跟服務其實是蠻貴的那所以這個是我們在鼓勵local在應用面"},{"start":407.892,"end":410.274,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":434.115,"end":434.296,"text":"議員提供"},{"start":451.732,"end":452.032,"text":"議員：廖先翔"},{"start":468.012,"end":470.355,"text":"我們用open source用小語言模型去針對某些特殊的資料做訓練比如說醫療"},{"start":486.036,"end":489.738,"text":"拜託政府應該相對應比過往更多的一些預算"},{"start":515.354,"end":515.614,"text":"以上麻煩部長謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":629,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時30分）謝謝召委，麻煩要請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：部長好。今天要向你請教國家數位韌性的問題，相關的有關單位也可以一起陪同，沒有關係。在今年的7月，全球的軟體業、資訊業以及我們的航空業發生了一件大事情，部長應該非常清楚吧？"],["黃部長彥男：就是Crowdstrike的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：對，Crowdstrike，微軟的系統出了一點問題，導致全球航空公司的系統也發生問題，甚至發生航班大亂等等許多細節的問題。我想請問數發部，是否曾經思考過，畢竟在國際上沒有永遠的朋友、也沒有永遠的敵人，因此，在考慮數位韌性這件事情上面，其實全球所有無論是公部門或私部門，對於微軟的依賴都是非常深，如果有一天微軟停止提供我們臺灣中華民國的軟體服務，我們的國家會發生什麼事情，你們有沒有做過相關的評估？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，目前我們的系統有兩種，一種是微軟、一種是Linux，也就是open source。"],["廖委員先翔：對，Linux。"],["黃部長彥男：基本上，在很多的服務上，譬如雲端就不見得是微軟，我們也有用到很多雲端的服務。當然微軟現在是我們最主要前端desktop的一些運用，但是微軟會停止服務的這件事情，大概是一個很小的機率，不過就算是如此，我們後端的一些系統……"],["廖委員先翔：我們就分成兩個部分，第一個，在第一時間它可能會對我們國家發生多大的危害？第一件事情，國家會發生怎麼樣的動盪？第二件事情，誠如剛剛部長講的，如何利用Linux重建我們的資訊系統。這個就是分成兩個部分，對不對？因此，我們應該先評估會對哪些產業造成衝擊，譬如金融系統或是國安系統等等，我不知道現在國安系統有沒有使用微軟，或是用其他開放性的東西，但是除了金融系統之外，一定還有各行業，甚至包括政府機關所跨部會的公文系統及電腦等等，全部都是用微軟嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，我們現在有一些是使用open source，像是open office，不見得是使用Microsoft office，的確有很多軟體是盡量走open source，不走public cord這樣去做，因為這樣我們就比較能夠掌控，不會……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係！部長的意思應該是數發部沒有做過相關的評估、應該是沒有，因此，你們可能沒辦法告訴我，它會對我們造成多大的衝擊。關於這件事情，我希望數發部能夠重視，因為我們不知道未來的世界會是什麼樣，包括美中的衝突等等、包括馬斯克可能把我們臺灣列為高風險區，必須要有一些產業外移，不知道未來國際的情勢會是如何，因此，在中西對抗的情況下，對岸早就發現了這個問題，所以他們自己成立了一套系統、建置一套系統，降低對微軟的依賴。當然我們也不可能使用對岸的系統，只能使用Linux的東西，維持我們的運作，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：是。"],["廖委員先翔：因此，數發部需要多久時間，可以做出相關的評估報告，如果微軟停止服務的話，對於我們的國家，無論是政府部門或民間部門，將會有劇烈程度的衝擊，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我會請我們的部門進行評估，不過我還是要講，走向open source也是我們的一個affer。"],["廖委員先翔：是，這是絕對要走的。關於第一個部分，部長需要多久的時間？"],["黃部長彥男：評估的話，1個月。"],["廖委員先翔：1個月？"],["黃部長彥男：我們評估一下。"],["廖委員先翔：其實這份評估報告也不只是給立法院，應該是要給所有相關的部門，讓他們知道，如果未來發生這件事情，他們會怎麼樣，但他們可能不知道會怎麼樣，對不對？包括下一個部分，我們可能需要用Linux重建我們國家的系統，應該是國家優先、民間其次。你們有沒有評估過，需要多久的時間，至少可以大致上用Linux取代微軟的系統？"],["黃部長彥男：我們沒有評估過，但是誠如委員所講的，我們逐步減少對Proprietary系統的依賴，包括我們講主權AI就是要有自己的model，像這種事情我們都在做，原因就是要減少對外面的依賴。"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["黃部長彥男：這個當然是一個比較long term的affer，不過我們的確擔心會有這樣的問題，因此，的確有在……"],["廖委員先翔：但我覺得它是一個架構的問題，我們不可能在問題發生的第一時間就馬上要求你在幾天、幾個小時內解決問題，但是我們應該要有一個優先順序，因為我們國內資訊軟體人才的量能有限、專業人才的量能有限，所以我們應該要去盤點受到影響的有哪些單位？哪些單位應該是我們要優先重構它的軟體系統？我覺得相關的SOP應該要下來，而不是等到有一天事情真的發生了，大家就像是無頭蒼蠅，每個人都需要你們數發部的支援，但你們也不可能全部都支援到嘛！對不對？好不好？固然打詐非常的重要，但我覺得數發部在這上面應該要有更高的責任及專業。第一個部分就是剛剛講的評估報告、第二個部分就是我們重建的系統，針對這兩件事情，希望數發部未來能夠提供。","剛剛部長講到國內AI系統的研發等等，我們數發部有補助國內的機關團體或民間機構，甚至是投資相關機構，進行AI的研發嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有提供AI算力池，有一項計畫就是建構AI算力池，讓民間公司能夠使用我們的算力池，因為AI的設備及服務其實是蠻貴的，這是我們鼓勵local在應用面的部分。至於AI model的開發，其實臺灣現在有幾個model，有些model的申請是由國科會補助，但是在民間像是聯發科的達哥系統也是有與我們合作，如何利用政府數發部的平台，讓大家能夠接觸。我們有一個平台系統可以接觸不同的LLM model，讓大家可以使用。"],["廖委員先翔：其實目前的AI都還沒有達到通用型，對不對？因此，我們可能需要有一個國家的方向。現在每個國家都在研發、每家公司都在研發，我們是否有設定國家的AI可能要往哪一個特定的方向？鼓勵民間或政府部門申請補助時，我們希望他們能朝哪個我們具有優勢的方向？當我們進行研發時不需與微軟對抗，況且我們也對抗不了它，但它也不可能做全部的事情，畢竟它還不是通用型。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["廖委員先翔：未來我們國家的AI會朝哪個面向著力？"],["黃部長彥男：我們用open source小語言模型，針對某些特殊的資料進行訓練，譬如醫療、譬如農業，或是用我們自己的繁體中文系統去做訓練，產生的model會比較適合我們，譬如公部門的使用，或是一些特殊應用的使用，像是製造業等等等，這些就是我們補助及推廣的部分。"],["廖委員先翔：AI是一個浪潮，一定會有很多人申請，政府也應該編列比過往更多的預算，但是，如果這筆預算變成只要扯到AI的方向就來挖，我覺得這樣的方向是不對的。我們應該要有一個國家的AI戰略目標、我們要朝哪個方向才能夠加強國家整體的競爭力，希望未來數發部審查相關的預算補助等等，無論是國家或是民間，唯有訂定自己的目標，才能夠提升競爭力，而不是曇花一現，補助發下去就像是丟水漂，好不好？以上就麻煩部長了，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員。","接下來請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156798","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156798","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678bfeb884c0eb4d97506c272e3b80411e8ce953f66f7e50605f9a50da7f8c86c4c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"11:21:12 - 11:29:59","影片長度":"00:08:47","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:21:12+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:29:59+08:00","duration":527,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.2034687500000003,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.32971875,"end":6.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.219093750000003,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.891593750000006,"end":87.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.69659375,"end":112.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.82346875,"end":123.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.72471875000001,"end":149.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.71221875,"end":152.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.76659375,"end":171.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.67159375,"end":167.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.73034375,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.56534375,"end":184.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.89659375000002,"end":200.48909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.43409375000002,"end":202.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.54784375000003,"end":202.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.83471875,"end":203.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.03721875000002,"end":209.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.34034375000002,"end":207.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.35721875000002,"end":207.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.52534375000002,"end":211.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.55909375000002,"end":211.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.64346875,"end":211.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.66034375,"end":211.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.98096875000002,"end":211.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.99784375000002,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.03159375,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.55034375000002,"end":213.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.60096875000002,"end":213.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.85409375,"end":213.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.97221875000002,"end":214.00596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.00596875000002,"end":222.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.71346875,"end":224.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.52346875,"end":230.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.01596875,"end":232.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.88909375,"end":233.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.63159375,"end":242.60909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.43596875000003,"end":253.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.78034375000001,"end":269.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.10284375000003,"end":305.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.03846875,"end":276.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.24471875,"end":316.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.03221875,"end":339.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.72471875,"end":354.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.51596875,"end":352.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.49034375,"end":361.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.07159375000003,"end":381.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.44409375000004,"end":380.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.20346875,"end":397.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.42096875000004,"end":395.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.27284375000005,"end":396.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.09971875,"end":406.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.76909375,"end":455.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.43971875000005,"end":435.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.36971875,"end":451.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.21721875000003,"end":455.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.41971875,"end":455.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.63909375000003,"end":455.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.74034375,"end":464.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.97096875000005,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.03846875000005,"end":500.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.07221875000005,"end":465.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.10596875000005,"end":465.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":472.48034375000003,"end":472.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.31471875000005,"end":480.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.13721875000005,"end":481.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.36471875,"end":483.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.43221875,"end":483.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.95721875000004,"end":499.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.22284375000004,"end":501.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.18471875000006,"end":502.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.61909375000005,"end":504.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.02784375000005,"end":509.16659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.53784375000004,"end":526.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.26534375,"end":526.51409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.582,"end":4.71,"text":"謝謝主席,有請我們黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":11.99,"end":36.368,"text":"部長好部長卓院長在我們前天11號有召開治安會報針對這個我們這個電信的電商的平台的部分有做一些的指示嗎但是很諷刺的是我們從11月11號的打詐一標本發現光是網路購物的詐騙案件就高達110件損失金額有490萬那我想隨著這個電商平台"},{"start":41.492,"end":41.653,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":55.338,"end":70.84,"text":"市長,我想我們怎麼樣輔導這個電商平台加強這個資安的一個跟各自的一個保護但是現在因為這個上有政策下有對策你看剛剛那麼多委員舉了很多例子你們有一個新的作為但是這個"},{"start":71.581,"end":72.662,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":87.705,"end":88.445,"text":"我請署長再補充一下"},{"start":113.001,"end":121.757,"text":"對,部長我想除了要求他們要配合之外,我們真的有沒有什麼監督的機制,到底應有者不有者,我們有沒有怎麼樣一個監督機制來檢視一下。"},{"start":124.063,"end":151.762,"text":"主要是兩個一個是行政檢查就是我們應該是所有大型電商都檢查了就看他們自然有沒有做好各自有沒有外有沒有保護有沒有做好這個那第二個是我們還會用防炸雷達去集合他看他有沒有一些違法的一些販賣界違法的一些產品或者一些詐騙的一些商品這個我們都會用外部的低量拒接當然剛剛陳吳魯委員講他們關鍵字都會變嘛所以我們會一直在更新我們的關鍵字"},{"start":152.813,"end":154.775,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":170.33,"end":170.59,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":185.327,"end":199.884,"text":"市長,另外本市比較擔心因為這個有牽扯到數位的速發部之後還有我們經濟部還有交通部好幾個部會啦齁,我今天說這個跌穿交之後齁到底什麼人要補償什麼人要處理什麼部分有沒有一個怎樣的一個完整的一個機制"},{"start":203.623,"end":222.07,"text":"委員講的是就是我們這個跨部會的一個協調的機制到底有沒有各就各位我們有一個分工的原則我們現在是有通常會在要召集各部會來做一些網路網路網際網路的分工的原則大家都在探討"},{"start":223.731,"end":239.759,"text":"對,有這個原則我知道但是到底會不會就這樣的原則去落實去處理我們擔心是有這個架構但是到時候各推各的責任目前就我們的部分我們執行的還可以就在電商的部分其實現在已經沒有列入165的高風險的賣場我們本部俠管的"},{"start":243.516,"end":268.675,"text":"所以是不是未來我們針對這樣一個跨部位的機制我們要怎麼樣加速一個資安通報的一個流程有效處理這個駭客入侵的案子數位部有信心嗎那個資安通報我們也有設的這樣一個機制所以本來就是在接受各方面通報這個是的確有這樣的機制都存在所以任何資安的事件我們都會很快的收到通報然後通知大家這樣"},{"start":269.335,"end":298.315,"text":"部長這個剛剛我們很多委員有提到說我們出入的速度真的有比較慢一點這個真的要再檢討一下內部檢討一下另外第一個針對我們2025即將邁入這個超高齡的一個社會那我們面臨所謂一個老人照顧的一個需求還有少子化帶來一個勞動力一個短缺的一個挑戰那我想請教部長針對這個我們現在5G專品的一個運用在所謂的醫療機器人來巡視病房"},{"start":298.815,"end":325.838,"text":"或是進行一個視訊診療的部分部長這部分是不是有跟衛福部有做一個相關的一個合作的一個機制這個我們有一些AI的補助計畫那這個計畫申請的公司其實也有跨剛剛講就像衛福這一邊我是不是請署長做個說明我們舉兩個案例第一個是我們有一個安妮婆婆的她就照顧老人需要讓外傭去練習怎麼去翻身嘛這個安妮婆婆的一個另外的話"},{"start":326.579,"end":333.725,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富"},{"start":354.662,"end":380.362,"text":"我們技術上就是用生成式AI跟這些部位來產生更好的服務這個有在進行對另外我們很多的農民朋友他們也擔心這個缺工的問題那所以目前公民院有透過5G跟AI辨識系統有一個開發一個自動巡檢的一個設備這個可以做到一些人力的一個減少的一個需求那這部分是不是輸貨部有沒有相關的一個輔導的機制"},{"start":382.203,"end":406.115,"text":"對這個就是利用這個剛剛講的自動巡檢用這個影像辨識AI判斷啊這個也是一個在農業上的巡就是說用無人機啊這些去做巡檢這個是也是一個趨勢那我們也在技術上對那個可以擴散這個我們已經有計劃我們從其實從黑木耳開始香菇、蘭花等等我們會持續擴散到不同的這個作物是相同的方法"},{"start":406.835,"end":407.135,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":421.732,"end":422.992,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸徐"},{"start":444.199,"end":448.301,"text":"我們打算把一些故事做成一些說明或是短影然後到處宣傳大家怎麼去用這些技術"},{"start":465.129,"end":466.29,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":483.96,"end":506.228,"text":"最後一個我想針對臺灣市場面臨這個中國跨境電商淘寶的一個侵害很嚴重那尤其這個最近發現了一個在捷運公司的一個廣告不實廣告那這部分部長我們有做什麼樣一個處理這個已經下架了所以後續我們有在追蹤嗎我們會持續追蹤那這個我們有持續在監控的"},{"start":509.531,"end":526.544,"text":"﹗"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":581,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（11時21分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：部長好。部長，卓院長在前天11日召開治安會報，針對電商平台的部分做了一些指示，但是很諷刺的，我們從11月11日的打詐儀表板發現，光是網路購物詐騙案就高達110件，損失金額有490萬元。我想隨著電商平台的發展，尤其是年輕人很喜歡透過電商平台購物，針對年輕世代的保護措施，也需要數位部的積極作為，部長同意這個說法嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：同意。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我們如何輔導電商平台加強資安及個資的保護？因為現在上有政策下有對策，剛剛那麼多委員舉了很多的例子，只要你們有一個新的作為，詐騙集團馬上就換一個新的手法，因此，針對我們的輔導成效，如何輔導業者做好事前防護、事中應變以及事後改善的策略，部長能不能說明一下？"],["黃部長彥男：電商的資安在過去的確是一個漏洞，因此，我們對電商有一些稽核，甚至將來我們去稽核電商時要做紅隊演練，將它的資安做提升，我覺得這是目前最大的問題。關於作法的部分，我請署長再補充一下。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我想除了要求他們配合之外，我們有沒有什麼監督的機制？到底他們有做或沒有做，我們有沒有監督的機制可以檢視一下？"],["林代理署長俊秀：主要有兩個，一個是行政檢查，我們應該是針對所有的大型電商，檢查他們的資安有沒有做好、個資的保護有沒有做好。第二個，我們還會用防詐雷達去稽核它，是否有販賣一些違法的產品，或是一些詐騙的商品，我們都會用外部的力量介入。當然，誠如剛剛委員所言，詐騙集團的關鍵字都會變，因此，我們也會一直更新我們的關鍵字。"],["徐委員富癸：在你們準備新的措施之前，人家就已經想好其他招數要來詐騙了。"],["黃部長彥男：我們用AI打詐，它也用AI……"],["徐委員富癸：剛剛聽到部長說養套殺要幾個月之後才見效，本席就感到很煩惱，在這幾個月的時間又不知有多少人會被騙了，這個要如何防範？能不能加快速度？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛我講過，這個end to end需要整個行政院的打詐國家隊一起努力，從各個關鍵將它擋住，包括金流等等等。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，因為這個除了牽涉到數發部之外，還有經濟部及交通部等好幾個部會，本席擔心這個在疊床架屋之後到底要由誰負責？由誰處理什麼部分？有沒有什麼樣的完整機制？"],["黃部長彥男：委員講的是？"],["徐委員富癸：就是跨部會的協調機制，到底有沒有各就各位啦！"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一個分工的原則。"],["林代理署長俊秀：現在是由通傳會召集各部會做一些網際網路分工的原則，大家都在探討、大家都在討論。"],["徐委員富癸：對，我知道有這個原則，但是到底會不會依照這個原則去落實、去處理？雖然有這個架構，我們擔心到時候卻是各推各的責任啊！"],["林代理署長俊秀：目前就我們的部分執行得還可以，在電商的部分現在已經沒有列入165高風險的賣場，我們本部轄管的。"],["徐委員富癸：未來我們針對這樣一個跨部會的機制，如何加速資安通報的流程，有效處理駭客入侵的案子，數位部有信心嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們針對資安通報設立了機制，本來就是要接受各方面的通報，的確是有這樣的機制存在，因此，任何資安的事件，我們都會很快地收到通報，並且通知大家。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，剛剛很多委員提到，我們處理的速度真的比較慢了一點，這個真的要再檢討一下、內部要再檢討一下啦！"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，針對我們在2025年即將邁入超高齡社會，面臨到老人照護的需求，以及少子化帶來的勞動力短缺的挑戰。我想請教部長，針對5G專頻運用在所謂的醫療機器人巡視病房或是進行視訊診療的部分，是否與衛福部有進行合作的相關機制？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一些AI的補助計畫，這個計畫申請的公司其實也有跨衛福部這邊，是不是請署長做個說明？"],["林代理署長俊秀：我們舉兩個案例，第一個是我們有一個安妮婆婆，讓外傭練習如何幫助老人翻身等等，這是安妮婆婆的部分。另外，我們還有其他的，包括偵測失智老人的下一個動作是否會打人，預先讓照顧員可以知道，類似這樣的案例還蠻多的。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我想這是很好的一個合作機制，尤其是現在的醫護人力也短缺、針對長照的需求也明顯增加，應該是要在這方面協助衛福部及醫療院所。"],["黃部長彥男：在技術上就是採用生成式AI對部會提供更好的服務，這個都有在進行。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，很多農民朋友也擔心缺工的問題，因此，目前工研院透過5G與AI辨識系統開發一個自動巡檢的設備，可以解決一些人力減少的需求，數發部針對這個部分有沒有相關的輔導機制？"],["黃部長彥男：這個自動巡檢就是利用剛剛講的影像辨識及AI判斷，譬如利用無人機進行自動巡檢也是一個趨勢，我們在技術上已經有計畫了。"],["林代理署長俊秀：其實從黑木耳開始，到香菇、蘭花等等，相同的方法，我們會一直持續擴散到不同的作物。"],["徐委員富癸：對，剛剛我們提到數位發展還是有一個城鄉落差很明顯的差別，之前本席也在這裡質詢過部長，請部長協助屏東的偏鄉或原鄉地區，針對老人家加強一些資訊教育，尤其是防詐的一些資訊。部長，我們是不是有辦法能夠多辦一些類似的展覽或是什麼樣形式的活動，讓相關的5G技術能夠融入百姓的生活裡面、讓大家能夠運用這樣的技術，享受智慧科技的便利性，有沒有做這樣的計畫？"],["黃部長彥男：我們打算把一些故事做成說明或是短影音，再到處宣傳教大家如何運用這些技術。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，上次本席提醒過，因為每個村里都有關懷據點，其實透過這些關懷據點可以讓老人家看一些影片，學習一些東西、也增加一些觀念，這是很好的措施。"],["黃部長彥男：我們已經在進行中。"],["徐委員富癸：對，但我認為可以再強化這個部分。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["徐委員富癸：最後一個，針對臺灣面臨中國跨境電商淘寶侵害嚴重的問題，尤其最近在捷運公司發現了一則不實廣告，部長，針對這個部分，我們做了什麼樣的處理？"],["黃部長彥男：這個已經下架了。"],["徐委員富癸：下架了。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["徐委員富癸：我們後續有再追蹤嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們會持續追蹤，針對這個我們也有持續監控。"],["徐委員富癸：因為擔心他們會用不同方式持續入侵，我想這個也是危及到臺灣很重要的安全性，關於後續的部分，還是要請數發部持續加油，針對打詐及防範國安的問題，能夠持續的強化，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員。","接下來請廖先翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156797","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667829dda9af1b943af906c272e3b80411e8ce953f66f7e506051fb40e3de1eea3c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"11:08:09 - 11:20:57","影片長度":"00:12:48","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:08:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:20:57+08:00","duration":768,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.199093749999999,"end":5.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.549093750000001,"end":6.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.61221875,"end":7.050968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.615343750000001,"end":14.931593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.965343750000002,"end":14.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.859718750000003,"end":45.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.268468750000004,"end":58.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.367843750000006,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.22409375,"end":61.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.77221875,"end":63.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.88596875,"end":65.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.94471875,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.39596875000001,"end":68.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.35346875,"end":69.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.51784375,"end":71.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.27284375,"end":73.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.58471875000001,"end":75.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.93471875,"end":83.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.11909375,"end":86.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.51096875,"end":87.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.47284375000001,"end":90.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.27846875,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.13471875,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.56909375000001,"end":94.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.50534375000001,"end":98.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.10409375,"end":101.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.16284375000001,"end":101.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.48346875,"end":102.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.55909375,"end":104.47034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.70659375000001,"end":107.42346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.92971875,"end":116.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.86909375,"end":122.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.25221875000001,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.25034375,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.56221875,"end":150.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.40409375000002,"end":157.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.47034375,"end":169.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.13096875000002,"end":171.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.02096875,"end":173.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.33284375000002,"end":177.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.72471875000002,"end":178.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.46721875,"end":181.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.04471875000002,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.50409375,"end":194.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.02159375000002,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.17284375000003,"end":203.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.10034375,"end":208.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.94346875000002,"end":210.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.83346875,"end":218.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.68034375000002,"end":221.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.78534375,"end":224.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.80596875,"end":225.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.48096875000002,"end":226.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.29096875000002,"end":228.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.73784375000002,"end":232.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.00721875000002,"end":234.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.91409375,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.86284375000002,"end":250.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.97909375,"end":255.68721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.85596875000002,"end":270.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.45284375,"end":289.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.28096875,"end":291.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.52534375,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.10284375000003,"end":298.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.87909375000004,"end":297.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.24596875000003,"end":307.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.11034375,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.30784375,"end":308.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.38784375,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.58596875,"end":310.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.45909375,"end":341.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.41659375,"end":376.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.71471875000003,"end":378.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.72284375000004,"end":378.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.39784375000005,"end":395.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":395.96909375,"end":447.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.34096875,"end":454.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.88471875000005,"end":450.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.60971875,"end":457.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.96784375000004,"end":475.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.33221875000004,"end":476.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.83409375,"end":478.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.84221875000003,"end":492.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.18596875000003,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.1865937499999,"end":516.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.2409687500001,"end":523.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.25284375,"end":525.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.63659375,"end":527.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.35784375,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.2140937500001,"end":534.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1372187500001,"end":538.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.47846875,"end":539.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.3728437500001,"end":540.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.3640937499999,"end":564.5165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.8159687500001,"end":566.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.1953437500001,"end":569.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.4609687500001,"end":575.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.0590937500001,"end":576.7509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.81409375,"end":578.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.0247187500001,"end":580.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.5772187499999,"end":582.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.9272187500001,"end":583.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.56846875,"end":587.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.12471875,"end":591.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.63471875,"end":604.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.6284687500001,"end":605.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.4890937499999,"end":606.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.0247187500001,"end":610.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.5515937499999,"end":613.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.94346875,"end":617.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.58846875,"end":618.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.90471875,"end":619.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.74846875,"end":620.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.8959687500001,"end":622.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.43159375,"end":628.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.43471875,"end":631.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.69596875,"end":632.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.96159375,"end":635.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.48846875,"end":642.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.1372187500001,"end":646.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.1072187500001,"end":647.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.3559687500001,"end":649.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.6172187500001,"end":650.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.5747187500001,"end":658.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.51034375,"end":661.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.17221875,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.56534375,"end":687.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.92346875,"end":689.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.5053437500001,"end":705.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.5578437500001,"end":707.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.6840937500001,"end":716.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.9653437500001,"end":728.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.57284375,"end":717.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.28846875,"end":728.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.69346875,"end":754.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.4428437500001,"end":739.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.4172187500001,"end":741.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.6528437500001,"end":747.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.01534375,"end":748.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.23034375,"end":749.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.44471875,"end":766.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.51159375,"end":758.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.5959687500001,"end":758.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":762.9665937500001,"end":768.2990937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.212,"end":7.897,"text":"好,謝謝主席。有請我們黃部長。有請黃部長。這個部長。委員好。"},{"start":15.879,"end":45.862,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":46.302,"end":73.139,"text":"那你扣掉本部的33多億大概61%的預算是放在兩個署我們治安署跟我們數位產業署裡面那在這樣的一個編排之下我看到了這個我們治安署他今天寫的報告三頁三個F頁面摩拳擦掌"},{"start":74.639,"end":81.845,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會議中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算：魯明哲"},{"start":103.698,"end":115.306,"text":"三月拿7.9億然後45.4億他寫了六月你覺得你看過這個報告你都沒有說這報告不應該這麼不詳細嗎那個預算書已經送立法院再請那個主席處長說明"},{"start":123.745,"end":149.792,"text":"報告委員那我們行政院在8月31號以前已經把中央政府總預算包括數發布的預算還有兩署預算全部都送到各委員辦公室送到立法院我說你在說明你這成本的預算說明用人話你們的專業話想要去說明明年度為什麼要委員支持你們的預算就丟一本預算給我們就結束了嗎"},{"start":150.572,"end":177.054,"text":"今天為什麼要排這個預算報告報告說什麼預算丟給你還報告什麼不要排了嘛也不要審了嘛我就覺得你們用3月6月報告去總共兩個署50級的預算我建議部長你可以去思考一下這一個形式上的一個尊重的一個態度會有問題好那我們再來看這個我們產業署啊產業署的副署長你先上來一下支援一下部長"},{"start":178.53,"end":194.18,"text":"我可以看到預算是越來越豐滿但是我們比較關心企業跟民眾有沒有感我們數位部算是各部會一個比較新成立的部會也代表了民眾在新的時代有很多的一個期待"},{"start":195.06,"end":224.018,"text":"那到底我們企業跟民眾有沒有感呢?我們看到今年度啊成長幅度最高的我們整個數位部啊本部加兩署成長了15.6億其中將近10億都在產業發展署數位產業署數位產業署裡面你們自己大概多了10億但我們來看一下呢你們人數多了13人兵力就位成長兵力喔成長喔"},{"start":225.078,"end":237.548,"text":"預算成長到底準備幹事了吧自己為為我們這個國民要拼一下嘛但我們來看一下呢在比較預算上面112年我從25.8億我們的產業署到114年45.4億你的整體預算在這個署內成長了75%成長43%算是算是成長的不少喔"},{"start":251.198,"end":269.706,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算．立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算．立法院提案於12月3日中央政府總預算�"},{"start":270.646,"end":281.596,"text":"學術單位、企業單位、顧問公司在做到底在做什麼東西你們現在委辦費在持續增高委辦費在112年才12.2億現在委辦費高達31.4億成長百分之157億啊你這樣的預算增加委辦費副組長你說一下什麼原因啊增加13個人是要做什麼的"},{"start":296.562,"end":310.419,"text":"跟委員報告 131隊主要用在打詐的一些推動 13人是增加在打詐的工作上面增加在打詐嘛 那委外有打詐嗎"},{"start":311.78,"end":339.862,"text":"委外的部分不是打詐的部分最主要有三塊第一塊是我們的AI的推動的部分現在生成的是AI對大家產業未來的發展很重要那第二個是我們的數位的公共建設的部分包括我們要建立一些算力池讓置物業可以來使用那第三個部分就是我們會給地方政府明年開始會有一個公建給地方政府來申請就是我們那個城市建模的部分就類似我們過去的數位成長的計畫"},{"start":340.823,"end":361.959,"text":"除了看到你的署內預算大幅增加,因為今天時間有限,細部我們在審預算都在討論可是大家都關心打詐的部分嘛,那打詐的部分已經談了很多次了數據就不要再講了,被詐騙的金額、詐騙的次數可能是今年比較有接入吧,所以大幅的一個成長"},{"start":362.759,"end":366.143,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":379.472,"end":406.123,"text":"我感覺數位部你開始發功了但是人民覺得績效沒有很好啊剛剛很多委員都說啊那我就請問一下部長你到底覺得在市詐賭詐打詐上面越打越詐的原因在數位部的原因是什麼你可以跟我講一下報告委員那個我想剛剛有講過這幾個問題一個就是說我們第一個打詐是詐騙的源頭一直在變那現在我們當然就是用AI技術要去掃這個詐騙那"},{"start":408.384,"end":429.882,"text":"我上任之後我們也發展了一些技術那目前我們看到的是尤其在網路廣告平台上面的詐騙確實有減少但是這個減少的在反映到金額的部分需要一點時間因為今天看到的金額是可能因為詐騙警察是養套殺他們可能都是在3到6個月以前就開始接觸這些被騙的人"},{"start":430.282,"end":454.701,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":454.701,"end":476.749,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":476.749,"end":492.892,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":493.921,"end":518.678,"text":"這也是產業署嘛產業署你們在做的網路詐騙通報查詢軟體啊那大家也說了很多次嘛那你們現在還在測試嘛在測試在修正那我們也要負責任幫你去測試一下所以我們請辦公室的秘書好好在最近幫你做一個測試啊我們希望你正式版上任的時候我們現在談到的問題不能再有你剛剛特別講相信"},{"start":519.318,"end":534.396,"text":"在各部會的團隊打詐國家隊努力之下能夠減少你講的是重點啊就你一個人努力沒有用啊你做一個很好用的softwareAPP讓民眾方便檢舉但是後端不處理沒有用喔先講沒有用喔"},{"start":535.177,"end":561.055,"text":"那我跟你講現在發生了三個樣態我們自己辦公室適到的第一個呢是判定延誤啊 不會不理睬我就講第一個啦你優化軟體如果你沒有優化打架國家隊所設的單位部會他們的效能效率重不重視這件事的話這件事情是事被公辦所以我們看到了到現在還掛在網上你們11月6號這第一個"},{"start":565.945,"end":575.211,"text":"十月六號十月五號六號有兩個民眾檢舉的你知道嗎到今天為止他的狀態掛在哪裡勞動部衛福部確認中"},{"start":580.186,"end":606.114,"text":"這是豬隊友嗎還是他比較大尾沒有啊到底是詐騙嗎你知道網路詐騙一天攻擊次數非常多我不要說現在知道你今天給我今天24小時內你給我一個明確的答案就算慢了嘛在數位的時代你還有7天6天7天你們自己去看我待會今年只給你們到現在還在確認中代表有些不會"},{"start":607.054,"end":614.297,"text":"二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於11月5日中央政府總預算案關於11月5日中央政府總預算案關於11月5日中央政府總預算案關於11月5日中央政府總預算案關於11月5日"},{"start":636.528,"end":638.25,"text":"第三類是你真的詐騙喔真的詐騙喔我們現在點還能夠點進去啦那我想"},{"start":651.598,"end":679.829,"text":"我要拜託你好今天真的是給你們這中間的有一些的情況尤其部會中間的效率五六天七八天說還沒有判定完成那最後我也拜託一下啦因為我也不知道你們講了這麼多咖啡跟這些社群欄裡也說了這麼多我不知道我們的召委應該常常有遇到這個問題啦那給我們藍勾勾不是藍勾勾沒有什麼好教啊就是什麼查證啊確認再三確認FB好不容易"},{"start":680.609,"end":706.694,"text":"指摸了半天給我個藍勾勾藍勾勾怎麼勾藍勾勾還是被這個假造號勾勾的啊每一天可以出兩三個啊欸這種訊息啊你知道我們辦公室那怎麼辦趕快去檢舉趕快我們去按檢舉按檢舉按檢舉欸未來如果我去請教一下未來有沒有什麼簡化的方式啊就是說這種算不算名人詐騙直接仿佔直接把你的粉專"},{"start":707.734,"end":708.735,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":723.385,"end":741.88,"text":"議員８立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供信訊：立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會提供"},{"start":745.703,"end":767.305,"text":"哇!你真的很有信心喔!我也希望!這真的很麻煩!如果他們不配合,我們剛剛講就會開始罰錢。FB、LINE整盤被盜走的一堆人。如果未來是真的不會,那真的是第一個大福音。我們希望、期待這趕快能夠落實。好不好?法規我們有武器。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":545,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（11時8分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：因為今年度開始審預算的時間已經延後，看到各部會不斷透過各種角度希望能夠快點快點快點付委，感覺上就是摩拳擦掌，資料都準備得非常詳細、非常棒，準備要讓我們看一下，好好說明你們的預算。部長，我看到整個數位部的預算，數位部本部加上兩個署的預算，總共大概是86.6億元，扣掉本部的三十三億多，大概百分之六十餘的預算是放在2個署，分別是資安署及數位產業署。在這樣的編排之下，我看到資安署今天寫的報告，3頁、3個A4頁面，摩拳擦掌、大呼小叫，要我們快一點，你們都準備好內容了，3頁、3面，除了將預算附表附在後面之外，好像沒什麼好說的，或是也沒什麼需要讓委員知道的。再來是45.4億元的數位產業署，6頁。你覺得這樣的準備對委員而言夠詳細嗎？部長，你整體說一下。3頁拿7.9億元，45.4億元就寫了6頁，你看過這個報告，難道你都沒說這個報告不應該這麼不詳細嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：預算書已經送立法院，請主計處長來說明。"],["李處長錫東：報告委員，行政院在8月31日之前已經把中央政府總預算，包括數發部的預算以及兩署的預算，全部都送至立法院、送至各委員的辦公室。今天當然是一個……"],["魯委員明哲：你在講什麼？我說的是書面報告，你們要說明整本的預算，用人話、用你們的專業話語，說明為什麼要委員支持你們明年度的預算，丟一本預算給我們就結束了嗎？今天為什麼要排這個預算報告，報告說什麼，預算就丟給你，不要排了嘛！也不要審了嘛！我覺得你們用3頁、6頁的報告要拿兩個署總共五十幾億的預算，建議部長可以思考一下，形式上尊重的一個態度會有問題。","產業署的副署長，你先上來一下，支援一下部長。我們看到預算是越來越豐滿，但是我們比較關心企業與民眾有沒有感，數位部算是各部會一個比較新成立的部會，也代表民眾在新的時代有很多的期待，到底我們的企業與民眾有沒有感呢？我們看到今年度成長幅度最高的，整個數位部的本部加上兩署成長了15.6億元，其中將近10億都在數位產業署，也就是數位產業署大概多了10億。我們來看一下，你們的人數多了13人，兵力就位成長，兵力成長囉！預算成長，到底要準備幹事了吧！總要為我們的國民拚一下吧！但是在比較預算上面，112年產業署從25.8億到114年的45.4億，你們的整體預算在這個署內成長了75%、成長了43%，算是成長了不少喔！而且你們人力也增加了13個，但是在45.4億中有31.4億是委辦費。當初我就曾告訴唐鳳部長，你們要編那麼多預算，很多理想都是你們告訴我的，說完後預算給你們啪嚓丟出去，卻是學術單位、企業單位及顧問公司在做，到底在做什麼東西？你們現在的委辦費持續增高，112年的委辦費只有12.2億，現在的委辦費高達31.4億，成長了157%，你們這樣增加委辦費，副署長，你說一下是什麼原因？增加13個人是要做什麼？送公文，是不是？"],["林代理署長俊秀：報告委員，13億最主要是用在打詐的一些推動。"],["魯委員明哲：什麼13億，是13個人。"],["林代理署長俊秀：13個人是增加在打詐的工作上面。"],["魯委員明哲：增加在打詐的部分嘛！"],["林代理署長俊秀：是。"],["魯委員明哲：委外有打詐嗎？"],["林代理署長俊秀：委外的部分不是打詐的部分，最主要有三塊，第一塊是我們AI推動的部分，因為生成式AI對未來的產業發展很重要。第二個是我們的智慧公共建設，我們要建立一些算力池讓資服業可以使用。第三個部分是明年開始會有一個公建給地方政府申請，也就是我們城市建模的部分，類似我們過去智慧城鄉的計畫。"],["魯委員明哲：除了看到你的署內預算大幅增加，因為今天時間有限，細部就留到審預算時再來討論。此外，大家都關心打詐的部分，但是打詐的部分已經談了很多次，數據就不要再講了，被詐騙的金額、被詐騙的次數，可能是今年比較有揭露，所以有大幅的成長。但是從今年開始，我們啟動了12億分4年的預算，包括了智慧防詐與數位信任，今年是第一年，明年編列3億，之後的兩年還有6億。我感覺今年數位部開始發功了，但是人民覺得績效沒有很好啊！請問部長，你覺得識詐、堵詐及打詐方面越打越詐，在數位部的原因是什麼，你能否告訴我？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，剛剛講過，我認為就是幾個問題，第一個，詐騙的源頭一直在變，我們當然就是要用AI技術去掃詐騙。在我上任之後，我們也發展了一些技術，尤其在網路平台上面的詐騙確實有減少，但是這個減少反映到金額的部分需要一點時間，因為詐騙集團都是養套殺，他們可能是在3至6個月之前就開始接觸這些被騙的人，所以今天看到的金額是早期被騙的金額，而我們今天講的效果應該在未來幾個月就會出現，這個金額也應該會下降。我們的確看到源頭的數目有下降，但是反映到金額的部分，可能需要一點時間，所以我會覺得……"],["魯委員明哲：所以你預期在114年度能夠……"],["黃部長彥男：被詐騙金額……"],["魯委員明哲：你先預約一下，好不好？你覺得這樣的次數可以向下嗎？還是哪個幅度向下？詐騙金額呢？"],["黃部長彥男：現在詐騙金額每天大概是3至6億，我個人覺得在各部會聯合打詐之後，應該會下降很多，至於能下降多少，我現在不敢做預測，但是應該可以看到一個明顯的下降。"],["魯委員明哲：部長，目前網路詐欺最主要的三個樣態，無論是投資詐欺、ATM詐騙或是網路拍賣的詐騙，真的都是在網路上與數位有關係，所以我們真的希望你能努力啦！","再來是產業署做的網路詐騙通報查詢軟體，大家也說了很多次嘛！你們現在還在測試、修正，當然我們也要負責任地幫你們測試一下，所以我們請辦公室的秘書好好在最近幫你做一個測試，希望在你們的正式版上路時不能再有現在談到的問題。剛剛你特別講到，相信在各部會的團隊、打詐國家隊的努力之下能夠減少，其實你講的是重點，就你一個人努力沒有用啊！你做了一個很好用的app讓民眾方便檢舉，但後端不處理就沒有用喔！先講，沒有用喔！我告訴你現在發生的三個樣態是我們辦公室自己試到的，第一個是判定延誤，部會不理睬。我就講第一個啦！優化軟體，如果你沒有優化，讓打詐國家隊所設單位、部會的效能效率重視這件事情的話，這件事情是事倍功半，所以我們看見到現在還掛在網上，這是第一個。11月5日、6日有2位民眾檢舉，你知道嗎？到今天為止，它的狀態掛在哪裡？勞動部、衛福部確認中，這是豬隊友嗎？還是它比較大尾？沒有啊！到底是詐騙嘛！你知道網路詐騙一天攻擊的次數非常多，不要說是現在知道，即使今天24小時之內你給我一個明確的答案，在這個數位時代就算是慢了嘛！你還有7天啊！6天、7天，你們自己去看，我待會指給你們，到現在還在確認中，表示有些部會不認為這是重要的。我告訴你，這個可以beta版，好不好？但你給它的後端人力是真的吧？即使你給它真的，它還是愛理不理啊！這是第一個狀態。","第二個，判定失誤啊！你們在11月5日判定確認這是詐騙、確認這是詐騙，已經通知移除FB，結果今天我們再三確認這是真的，KGI凱基投信快哭出來了，你知道嗎？它這個是真的，不知道裡面是不是用字遣詞哪裡不夠精準，這是第二類。第三類是真的詐騙喔！真的詐騙喔！我們現在點還能夠點進去。","我要拜託你，你們在這中間有一些情況，尤其是部會之間的效率，5、6天，7、8天都還沒有判定完成。最後我也拜託一下，我也不知道你們講了這麼多，喝咖啡與這些社群平臺也說了這麼多，我們的召委應該也常常遇到這個問題，給我們藍勾勾其實也沒什麼好驕傲的，什麼查證、確認、再三確認，FB折磨了半天好不容易給我們一個藍勾勾，但藍勾勾還是被這些假帳號勾勾纏啊！他們一天可以出兩、三個啊！面對這種訊息，我們辦公室秘書說怎麼辦，趕快去檢舉、趕快去按檢舉、按檢舉、按檢舉。我想請教一下，未來有沒有什麼簡化的方式啊？這種算不算是名人詐騙？直接將你的粉專不斷的copy出去，如果對於這種直接檢舉之後，你是與FB直接拿掉，或是要我們自己進這個網頁不斷的按檢舉，到底要怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，第一個，我們會落實實名制，以後不會看到魯委員的名字在上面，沒有經過實名的認證，所以剛剛這兩個叉叉就不會出現。我們的打詐子法在11月底就會通過，明年1月將會開始實施，這個就不會因為……"],["魯委員明哲：所以自然就不會出現，也不用檢舉了。"],["黃部長彥男：如果Meta落實實名制的話……"],["魯委員明哲：哇！你真的很有信心。"],["黃部長彥男：這個我們……"],["魯委員明哲：我也希望啦！這個真的很麻煩。"],["黃部長彥男：如果他們不配合，誠如剛剛講的，我們就會開始罰錢。"],["魯委員明哲：FB、LINE整盤被盜走的有一堆人，如果未來真的不會，真的就是一大福音，我們希望、期待這個能夠趕快落實，好不好？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：規範好了就會有武器，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲召委。","接下來請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156796","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678ed53db61b4fecca106c272e3b80411e8ce953f66f7e5060517cb99a06a4423b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"10:53:10 - 11:07:50","影片長度":"00:14:40","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T10:53:10+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:07:50+08:00","duration":880,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":9,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-9"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.6634687500000003,"end":7.000343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.185968750000001,"end":8.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.38284375,"end":17.294093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.15471875,"end":26.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.929718750000003,"end":35.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.16034375,"end":40.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.95284375,"end":43.079093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.517843750000004,"end":44.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.766593750000006,"end":49.221593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.221593750000004,"end":49.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.166593750000004,"end":61.877843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.907218750000006,"end":63.83534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.37534375,"end":65.91096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.21471875,"end":67.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.25659375000001,"end":70.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.73721875000001,"end":72.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.48784375000001,"end":78.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.32659375,"end":86.12721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.36346875000001,"end":88.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.55721875,"end":100.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":100.47096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.50034375000001,"end":103.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.85846875,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.80971875,"end":122.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.27346875,"end":126.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.79159375,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.66471875000002,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.91784375,"end":130.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.71096875,"end":130.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.87971875,"end":131.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.70659375,"end":137.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.42721875,"end":144.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.36284375,"end":153.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.96471875,"end":162.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.82409375,"end":165.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.35534375,"end":168.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.98346875000001,"end":198.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.37971875000002,"end":199.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.02096875,"end":200.48909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.77596875,"end":203.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.10034375,"end":205.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.46721875,"end":207.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.42034375,"end":214.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.15346875,"end":217.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.09409375,"end":217.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.14034375000003,"end":230.81346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.29221875000002,"end":218.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.81346875000003,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.88096875000002,"end":231.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.03284375,"end":235.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.37409375000001,"end":235.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.17971875,"end":237.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.05721875,"end":237.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.29346875000002,"end":249.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.90346875,"end":251.46846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.33346875,"end":264.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.49596875000003,"end":264.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.93471875,"end":265.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.98096875000005,"end":265.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.99784375,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.78096875,"end":276.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.94971875000005,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.96659375,"end":286.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.65784375000004,"end":282.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.04096875,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.16721875,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.02784375000005,"end":306.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.85221875,"end":309.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.06284375,"end":310.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.32846875,"end":315.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.39596875,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.33596875,"end":316.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.02784375000005,"end":317.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.31471875,"end":318.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.59721875,"end":318.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.90096875,"end":320.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.03159375,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.82471875000005,"end":321.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.47659375,"end":336.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.09659375,"end":340.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.39971875000003,"end":343.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.67346875000004,"end":343.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.97721875,"end":347.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.94721875000005,"end":348.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.60096875000005,"end":356.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.41409375,"end":361.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.94909375000003,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.10096875000005,"end":362.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.54784375,"end":366.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.26471875000004,"end":369.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.35721875,"end":373.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.28909375,"end":374.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.22971875,"end":383.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.08909375,"end":389.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.03346875,"end":393.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.04534375000003,"end":398.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.07409375000003,"end":404.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.45721875000004,"end":404.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.54159375,"end":404.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.96346875,"end":406.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.76909375,"end":406.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.80284375,"end":413.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.26596875,"end":418.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.64534375000005,"end":416.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.02471875000003,"end":421.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.27721875000003,"end":423.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.45409375,"end":428.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.60534375000003,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.87034375,"end":445.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.96971875,"end":449.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.15909375,"end":450.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.85096875000005,"end":453.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.06159375000004,"end":452.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.17534375,"end":453.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.42846875000004,"end":465.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.54659375000006,"end":453.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.32534375,"end":467.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.75534375,"end":469.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.18534375,"end":470.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.36659375000005,"end":473.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.35784375000003,"end":475.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.70784375000005,"end":486.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.88909375000003,"end":476.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.50346875,"end":487.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.76909375,"end":489.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.43534375,"end":491.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.46034375000005,"end":495.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.44721875000005,"end":497.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.33721875000003,"end":498.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.64096875,"end":503.26034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.26034375000006,"end":503.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.83409375,"end":504.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.30221875,"end":506.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.61846875000003,"end":507.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.76596875,"end":511.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.3559687500001,"end":513.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.5203437499999,"end":515.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.6297187499999,"end":516.4397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.7434687499999,"end":519.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.61221875,"end":529.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.17596875,"end":533.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.68221875,"end":530.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.0659687500001,"end":532.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.1965937500001,"end":540.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.30096875,"end":546.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.80721875,"end":541.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.30846875,"end":546.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.16909375,"end":547.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.46846875,"end":549.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.4597187500001,"end":550.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.0334687500001,"end":553.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.5984687499999,"end":554.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.91471875,"end":555.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.5009687500001,"end":557.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.7665937500001,"end":560.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.78721875,"end":561.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.4453437500001,"end":567.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.58784375,"end":571.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.65034375,"end":575.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.7553437500001,"end":587.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.7197187500001,"end":587.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.8547187500001,"end":589.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.33534375,"end":590.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.6809687500001,"end":595.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.95471875,"end":597.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.1315937500001,"end":599.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.02159375,"end":601.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.8272187499999,"end":601.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.84409375,"end":601.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.3334687500001,"end":602.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.1772187500001,"end":608.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.0834687500001,"end":612.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.1672187500001,"end":619.5459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.9509687500001,"end":628.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.51534375,"end":626.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.6628437500001,"end":633.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.3459687500001,"end":631.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.51846875,"end":647.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.8959687500001,"end":653.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.7009687500001,"end":654.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.02159375,"end":661.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.34221875,"end":654.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.8178437500001,"end":669.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.1709687500002,"end":677.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":674.18721875,"end":674.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":677.64659375,"end":677.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.96721875,"end":679.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.7053437500001,"end":681.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.2240937500001,"end":681.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.5109687500001,"end":683.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.9072187500001,"end":684.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.0715937500001,"end":695.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.34409375,"end":703.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.39346875,"end":709.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.99159375,"end":713.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.36659375,"end":715.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.30721875,"end":716.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.18471875,"end":720.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.99846875,"end":721.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.6059687500001,"end":722.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.79159375,"end":723.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.7322187500001,"end":723.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.79971875,"end":727.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":727.9340937500001,"end":738.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.66659375,"end":740.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":740.42159375,"end":740.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.65784375,"end":740.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.2822187500001,"end":745.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.46721875,"end":747.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.65659375,"end":752.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.4197187500001,"end":752.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.9765937500001,"end":755.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.6765937499999,"end":757.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":757.41471875,"end":758.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.3090937500001,"end":759.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.6084687500002,"end":760.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.21159375,"end":761.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.0047187499999,"end":764.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.02534375,"end":766.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.98284375,"end":776.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.07409375,"end":784.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.8703437500001,"end":786.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.77721875,"end":790.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.04659375,"end":798.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":798.9272187500001,"end":800.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.4922187500001,"end":806.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.01034375,"end":811.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.0053437500001,"end":820.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":820.79721875,"end":824.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.1765937500002,"end":823.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.05409375,"end":826.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.3872187500001,"end":826.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.3490937500001,"end":826.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":826.72034375,"end":828.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.73721875,"end":827.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.86346875,"end":834.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.6809687500001,"end":842.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":842.4140937500001,"end":848.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.6284687500001,"end":850.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.2397187500001,"end":853.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":854.1928437500001,"end":857.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":857.39909375,"end":858.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.33971875,"end":862.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.7822187500001,"end":870.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.16909375,"end":878.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.90221875,"end":879.7078437500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.574,"end":5.742,"text":"謝謝主席請速發部黃部長請黃部長"},{"start":16.491,"end":31.926,"text":"部長早部長我想早上大概我前面幾個委員也都針對打詐的事情也就教你本席從第一次質詢你開始我就一直在強調在台灣詐騙"},{"start":36.56,"end":62.98,"text":"沒有銷聲匿跡之前大概本席對書發布質詢的重中之重就是打詐所以本席今天還是延續著打詐的議題來請教這個113年的5月15號我們為了打詐通過電子簽章法7月也把詐欺犯罪危害防治條例都來通過那"},{"start":64.831,"end":87.699,"text":"現在的進度應該是訴發部要針對這個下面的這些執法或者相關的這些辦法規則你們要去訂定整體的配套對吧沒錯那我看了一下時間9月我們就公告10月已經公告完畢了是這樣嗎"},{"start":89.135,"end":103.326,"text":"我們先公告哪一些公司網路廣告平台公司要被納管所以9月公告10月底要求他們提出文件來申請我的意思是說立法院通過修法"},{"start":104.909,"end":126.168,"text":"到現在為止對於詐騙我們還沒有辦法根據我們通過包括所謂電子現場法實名制等等是因為速發布的相關針對這個法令的配套相關規定還沒有完成11月30會公告執法對那換言之11月30公告完之後就"},{"start":127.83,"end":153.508,"text":"沒有其他法規的問題了對不對好那所以我們過去宣告12月30現在等你提早一個月是嗎好這個本席非常的肯定我的意思只是在想說為什麼10月就完成所有的公告然後要再拖兩個月是不是有什麼困難啊所以你們把它提早一個月這個就是本席第一點要講的"},{"start":154.068,"end":168.024,"text":"我不希望再拖啦因為這個空窗期實在拖太久我們對外立法院都已經三讀通過立法院是最困難的要把朝野的意見都整合把社會各界意見都整合落實在法規裡面"},{"start":169.065,"end":198.064,"text":"那最困難的我們都完成了反而我們部裡面這個行政的這些相關的這個執法配套我們沒有辦法快速把它完成這個對社會沒有辦法交代不然我們都信誓旦旦行政院宣稱我們立法院也宣稱我們法令都修了所以打詐我們這個祭出雷力風刑的手段結果看起來這幾個月民眾也覺得好像也沒有什麼感覺所以這個要快速"},{"start":199.265,"end":217.378,"text":"第二個問題就來了你11月30公告之後我想請問一下這幾個大的平台業者他根據這些法規法令包括你們配套的這些相關的規定他什麼時候開始落實啊"},{"start":219.612,"end":234.683,"text":"我們跟這些平台商就是所謂的過去幾個月在這個溝通上就是所謂的喝咖啡都有談他們都答應在明年初會開始落實這個不能講明年初啦因為他明年初不知道幾月"},{"start":236.444,"end":264.398,"text":"一月吧那要不要部長你要不要直接告訴這些相關的平台商就是1月1號開始實施或者就是1月30號開始實施或者31號開始實施日期那個有跟他們在明說嗎這個應該要明講這個不可以再讓他們混了那還是一樣喔等等立法院修法行政機關相關的配套都做好了然後現在開始哇第三關我們會開始問那平台業者什麼時候要做啊"},{"start":267.061,"end":293.366,"text":"就是1月1號開始導入實名制那當然就是說我們先從剛剛其實在上個委員有講我們先從所謂的高風險就是說公眾沒有關係沒有關係其實大家還是在乎嘛譬如說你最大宗那幾個嘛你看你Meta站的詐騙我上一次已經把圖都畫給大家看了嘛它的比例多高部長那個八九成對嘛上一次我已經公告過了嘛"},{"start":293.826,"end":314.761,"text":"所以說換言之我們在打詐只要鎖定幾個大的對象就搞什麼都差不多南瓜在裡面了嘛你說剩下的部分當然要做但是你先讓大家有感從那個做幾個大咖的下去就已經九成了那還是老問題那到底我們現在你公告的是幾月幾號"},{"start":316.38,"end":332.866,"text":"那個11月底公告嘛,然後1月1號開始...這個我知道他開始實施啦那開始實施呢業者一定跟你說要有一個緩衝期啊我要改程式啊我要做什麼一大堆的啊然後就開始又跟你講了不知道民國幾年幾月"},{"start":334.537,"end":361.515,"text":"才要開始落實啊一月一號就會剛才講一月先從所謂高風險的客戶廣告客戶就落實所以高風險的廣告客戶是一月一號開始就會在那裡做這個廣告就要實名了是不是包括一些大的廣告這個我覺得這個應該要講清楚一月一號所以換言之一月一號沒有做你就不准他廣告對不對高風險就是說他的廣告量大的或是像就所謂的公眾人物這種對對不是"},{"start":364.588,"end":365.669,"text":"市長我還是要再一次的講"},{"start":394.413,"end":423.753,"text":"我跟部長講齁你如果沒有公告一個很明確的時間我就給你拖啦那你公告時間你說我要分階段實施沒有關係你就告訴我幾月幾號要實施什麼的確會分階段這個請署長來來來 署長他持續在跟我們做技術上的一些討論對那他一直在修正他的系統對所以這段時間他其實很努力對沒關係本來想說高風險的話讓他先上沒關係 署長我還是要講那句話不可以這樣子啦不可以他叫很努力嘛"},{"start":424.493,"end":450.458,"text":"那個齁今天就是台灣跟韓國12強的比賽那個台北市政府齁說那個大巨蛋會漏水台北市政府都告訴遠雄公司啊幾月幾號如果你的漏水沒有修好我就按日處罰那現在呢修好了沒還是還沒修好啊所以台北市政府就開始罰了我跟你講啦你講幾月幾號他都不一定可以做得到啦詐騙的問題比大巨蛋這個嚴重100倍啊"},{"start":453.399,"end":453.88,"text":"我們11月底我們就把"},{"start":475.032,"end":489.666,"text":"11月底一併公告啦好不好你們剛剛講我沒有意見你們要去怎麼做比如說好我針對幾個大的平台業者我告訴你們你們就是幾月幾號開始凡沒有實名制的都不可以給我上架"},{"start":490.487,"end":500.677,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算"},{"start":513.61,"end":529.41,"text":"例如說你廣告量大的那就怎麼樣可是我還是不贊成廣告量大啦因為詐騙的業者他那有廣告量一定大所以你都限制那些合法的業者要實名制那真的詐騙那一群人他廣告量一定不會很大嘛"},{"start":530.231,"end":554.131,"text":"那你還是讓詐騙的繼續詐騙我們先從高風險說高風險就是說公眾人物他很有名然後他的廣告這些人一定要實名制對啦但是這個齁不是詐騙的本意嘛來我秀一張圖給你看啦你看齁你看齁這個齁用那個張國偉的照片嘛對不對阿這個就是高風險對"},{"start":557.139,"end":571.57,"text":"問題是問題是廣告的人叫DSG啊廣告的人不是張國偉你跟張國偉說你來就要實名制張國偉的受害者他不是去他去買的啊"},{"start":572.834,"end":594.285,"text":"這一這個是什麼時候這個是現在的狀況啦我隨便在網路上找這太多了我隨便擷取一張這是現在現在是什麼公告會公告法令會修法了公告會公告完了就等著你什麼時候這個實施嘛那此刻你有法規你看喔勘剝者出資者的資訊在這裡"},{"start":595.984,"end":612.737,"text":"他用了張國偉的照片 這一個人的廣告量大嗎 這個人的廣告量一定不大 對不對那你限制廣告量大 你限制張國偉說張國偉你如果要廣告你的實名是因為你是知名人物 我就沒有廣告我就是受害者嘛"},{"start":613.217,"end":632.109,"text":"那個報告委員兩個禮拜前Meta才公布一個技術他以後會偵測照片跟名字所以有這個技術以後這種廣告就不會再出現就是說照片是張國偉阿名字不是張國偉是啦那我的意思是說我們法規你那個是你現在要做這個偵測"},{"start":633.61,"end":647.073,"text":"你很簡單嘛你現在做這個偵測是就算你還沒有開始公告實施你也可以去偵測嘛但是我的公告實施完之後我就是要告訴你說這DSG是誰你要實名制嘛為什麼"},{"start":648.255,"end":669.084,"text":"我接下來就要抓這個人了我還跟你在那邊裸細沙咧我就直接抓這個嘛你現在是還不能抓他因為沒有實名字所以你根本不知道他是誰啊他今天叫DSG明天叫ABC啊你現在懂我的意思嗎所以我的意思就是說你要趕快落實平台業者最好的方式就是你跟Meta說啊"},{"start":670.219,"end":684.008,"text":"一月幾號開始如果你還給我弄這個DSG不知道是誰的我就直接罰你250萬到1億嘛這個就是我要求的啊這個不可以再拖啦這個拖了就沒意思了那個已經"},{"start":685.111,"end":691.236,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。"},{"start":711.038,"end":720.507,"text":"我不相信一天才發一頁,我看他多快發啊!啊你就再叫批一批啊!部長真的要加油,你看齁我都看到報紙那個兆豐啊!"},{"start":721.861,"end":722.361,"text":"蔡其昌 蔡其昌 蔡其昌"},{"start":748.7,"end":775.599,"text":"你開始喝咖啡我說咖啡接下來可不可以泡男喝一點他再繼續不搞你就改毒藥怎麼喝咖啡那麼好民眾齁被詐騙的人部長辛辛苦苦一輩子的血汗錢就這樣被詐騙這個事件不是少數啊如果說齁他一輩子得到招小偷一輩子可能一次啦他也沒看過小偷長什麼樣子"},{"start":777.16,"end":797.918,"text":"可是他在生活裡面面對詐騙他是無時無刻在處理這個問題所以本席為什麼急我們沒有辦法再拖啦這種東西每天人民都在面對這種苦難所以我們行政機關、立法機關我們要苦民所苦他想要老百姓現在他在擔憂什麼問題所以本席為什麼會那麼積極"},{"start":802.708,"end":828.109,"text":"你們這樣不配合我就不相信治不了你人民的苦難面對這些財團我們難道沒有什麼更積極更有作為的做法嗎部長我真的告訴你一句你只要把打詐做好你這抒發部就永留青史啦你這個部長就永留青史我痛恨詐騙啦我也知道我沒有質疑你不痛恨啦只是說方法跟手段啦"},{"start":829.065,"end":858.232,"text":"我說兆豐人家都會想到說不然我也盡一點力氣我不給他廣告這個這就是手勞嘛這就是風範不是只有我我也相信你很討厭這個詐騙你恨之入所以兆豐這個很好的意思我們公司協力一起來把這個問題解決掉是啦就是你要有方法我的意思就是說這個是速發部的主線兆豐啦或者其他民間企業這個都是輔助啦"},{"start":859.437,"end":878.361,"text":"我們負責主線的人真的最重要啦好不好因為我本來要問很多題的這個一題就已經時間就到了主席都已經站很久了啦加油啦這個常常想到人民真的這個詐騙不行這個台灣不可以這個樣子好不好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":459,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（10時53分）謝謝主席，請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。部長，我想早上大概前面幾個委員也都針對打詐的事情就教你，本席從第一次質詢你開始，我就一直在強調，在臺灣詐騙沒有銷聲匿跡之前，大概本席對數發部質詢的重中之重就是打詐，所以本席是延續著打詐的議題來請教。113年5月15號我們為了打詐通過電子簽章法，7月也通過詐欺犯罪危害防制條例，現在的進度應該是數發部要針對下面的子法或者相關的辦法、規則訂定整體的配套，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：我看了一下時間，9月你們就公告，10月已經公告完畢了，是這樣嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們先公告哪一些網路廣告平臺公司要被納管，所以9月公告，10月底要求他們提出文件來申請，就是要……"],["蔡委員其昌：我的意思是，立法院通過修法，到現在為止對於詐騙，我們還沒有辦法根據通過的電子簽章法、實名制等等，是因為數發部針對這個法令的配套相關規定還沒有完成嘛。"],["黃部長彥男：11月30日會公告子法。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，換言之，11月30日公告完之後就沒有其他法規的問題了，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以我們過去宣告12月30日，現在等於提早1個月，是嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，這個本席非常地肯定。我的意思只是在想為什麼10月就完成所有的公告，然後要再拖2個月，是不是有什麼困難？所以你們提早1個月，這個就是本席第一點要講的，我不希望再拖。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為這個空窗期實在拖太久，對外立法院都已經三讀通過，立法院是最困難的，要把朝野的意見都整合、把社會各界的意見都整合，落實在法規裡面，最困難的我們都完成了，反而部裡面行政的相關子法、配套沒有辦法快速地完成，這個對社會沒有辦法交代，不然我們都信誓旦旦，行政院宣稱、我們立法院也宣稱，法令都修了，對於打詐，我們祭出雷厲風行的手段，結果看起來這幾個月民眾覺得好像也沒有什麼感覺，所以這個要快速。"],["黃部長彥男：好，瞭解。"],["蔡委員其昌：第二個問題就來了，你們11月30日公告之後，我想請問一下，這幾個大的平臺業者根據這些法規、法令、包括你們配套的相關規定，他們什麼時候開始落實實名制？"],["黃部長彥男：我們跟這些平臺商過去幾個月在溝通上，就是所謂的喝咖啡的時候都有談，他們都答應在明年初會開始落實。"],["蔡委員其昌：不能講「明年初」，因為講明年初不知道是幾月……"],["黃部長彥男：應該是1月。"],["蔡委員其昌：1月嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長，你要不要直接告訴相關的平臺商，就是1月1號開始實施，或者1月30日開始實施，或者1月31號開始實施？"],["黃部長彥男：日期有跟他們再明說嗎？"],["蔡委員其昌：這個應該要明講，不可以再讓他們混了，否則還是一樣，立法院修法，行政機關相關的配套都做好了，然後現在開始進到第三關，我們開始問平臺業者什麼時候要做呀？"],["黃部長彥男：1月1號開始導入實名制，剛剛其實在上個委員質詢的時候也有講，我們先從高風險，就是公眾……"],["蔡委員其昌：沒有關係，其實大家還是在乎譬如最大宗那幾個，你看Meta占了詐騙……我上一次已經把圖都畫給大家看了。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長，它的比率多高？"],["黃部長彥男：八、九成。"],["蔡委員其昌：對嘛，上一次我已經公告過了，換言之，我們在打詐的時候，只要鎖定幾個大的對象，九成就差不多都囊括在裡面了，剩下的部分當然也要做，但是你先讓大家有感，從做幾個大咖的下去就已經九成了。"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：還是老問題，到底你公告的是幾月幾號？"],["黃部長彥男：11月底公告，1月1號開始……"],["蔡委員其昌：我知道它開始實施，業者一定會跟你說要有一個緩衝期，它要改程式、要做什麼一大堆，然後就又跟你講不知道民國幾月幾號才要開始落實。"],["黃部長彥男：1月1號就會實施，就像剛剛講的，先從高風險的廣告客戶落實。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，所以高風險的廣告客戶是1月1號開始，在那裡做廣告就要實名了，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對，包括大的廣告商。"],["蔡委員其昌：我覺得這個應該要講清楚，就是1月1號，換言之，1月1號沒有做，你就不准它廣告，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：就是高風險的、廣告量大的，或者是像公眾人物這種。"],["蔡委員其昌：不是，「廣告量大」的定義是什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：就是它會吸引很多流量的廣告。"],["蔡委員其昌：我的意思是這樣，Meta實施實名制以後，沒有實名制的，它都不可以上架，這個在1月1號可不可以做得到？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛講的，不是一開始，我們聽到的不是全面，但至少對高風險的……"],["蔡委員其昌：不、不、不，部長，我還是要再一次地講，你如果沒有公告一個很明確的時間，它就會給你拖，你公告了時間，你說要分階段實施，沒有關係，你就告訴我幾月幾號要實施什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：的確會分階段，這個請署長來說明。"],["蔡委員其昌：來，署長。"],["林代理署長俊秀：它持續與我們做技術上的一些討論，也一直在修正它的系統，所以這段時間它其實很努力，我們本來想說高風險就讓它先上。"],["蔡委員其昌：沒關係，署長，我還是要講那句話：不可以這樣子啦！不可以說它很努力嘛！今天是臺灣與韓國的十二強比賽，臺北市政府說大巨蛋會漏水，因此臺北市政府告訴遠雄公司，如果幾月幾號漏水沒有修好就要按日處罰，現在呢？修好了沒？仍然還沒修好啊！所以臺北市政府就開始罰了。我告訴你，你說幾月幾號，它都不一定做得到啦！"],["黃部長彥男：委員，我們……"],["蔡委員其昌：詐騙的問題比大巨蛋的問題嚴重100倍，因此，不可以拖、不可以現在告訴我，有啦！他們已經很認真了，我們大約就是幾號。很簡單嘛！這個有罰則，如果幾月幾號沒有做，我就是要罰你。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會把時程很清楚地寫出來。"],["蔡委員其昌：什麼時候可以公告讓大家知道？"],["林代理署長俊秀：11月底子法公布的時候，我們……"],["蔡委員其昌：11月底一併公告啦！，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：對於你們剛剛講的，我沒有意見，你們要怎麼做，譬如針對幾個大型的平台業者，告訴他們就是幾月幾號開始，凡是沒有實名制的都不可以上架，不然我就要開始處罰你。必須要說得很白話喔！開始處罰喔！處罰的罰則也有了喔！從多少錢到多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：從二百多萬元到1億元都可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，二百多萬元到1億元，就要開始罰喔！要給我開始罰！","第二個，如果你要限制廣告量大的業主，這也是一個方法，譬如廣告量大的就怎麼樣，但我還是不贊成廣告量大啦！因為詐騙業者哪有廣告量就一定大，所以你都限制那些合法的業者要實名制，但是真的詐騙的那群人廣告量一定不會很大，你還是讓詐騙者繼續詐騙。"],["黃部長彥男：我們先從高風險著手，所謂的高風險就是公眾人物，因為他們很有名，所以這些人的廣告一定要實名制。"],["蔡委員其昌：對啦！但這個不是詐騙的本意，我秀一張圖給你看，你看這是用張國煒的照片，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：這個就是高風險。"],["蔡委員其昌：對，問題是廣告的人叫Dsg啊！廣告的人不是張國煒，你卻告訴張國煒刊登廣告就要實名制，但張國煒就是受害者，廣告不是他去買的啊！這是什麼時候？這個是現在的狀況，我隨便在網路上找的，實在是太多了。我隨便擷取一張，現在是什麼？法令也修法了、公告也公告完了，現在就等著你什麼時候實施嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：此刻你有法規，你看刊播者、出資者的資訊在這裡，他用了張國煒的照片，這個人的廣告量大嗎？這個人的廣告量一定不大，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：你限制廣告量大的、你限制張國煒刊登廣告必須要實名制，因為他是知名人物。很抱歉！他就沒有刊登廣告、他就是受害者嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，兩個禮拜前Meta才公布一個技術，以後它會偵測照片與名字，有了這個技術之後，以後這種廣告就不會再出現，也就是照片是張國煒，但名字不是張國煒。"],["蔡委員其昌：是啦！我的意思是我們的法規……現在你要做這個偵測，很簡單嘛！你現在做這個偵測，就算你還沒有開始公告實施，也是可以去偵測嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：但是我認為公告實施完之後就是要告訴你這個Dsg是誰。"],["黃部長彥男：對，就不一樣……"],["蔡委員其昌：你要實名制嘛！為什麼？我接下來就要抓這個人了，還跟你在那邊五四三咧！我就直接抓這個嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：現在你還不能抓他，因為沒有實名制，所以你根本不知道他是誰啊！今天他叫Dsg、明天叫ABC啊！你現在懂我的意思嗎？我的意思就是你要趕快落實，針對平台業者最好的方式就是你要告訴Meta，1月幾號開始，如果還有這種Dsg不知道是誰的狀況，我就直接罰你250萬元到1億元，這個就是我要求的啊！這個不可以再拖啦！再拖下去就沒意思了！已經三讀拚到這樣讓它通過，再來你們數發部也提早了，原本是12月30日現在提早到11月30日，對不對？結果接下來換它拖，一定拖的啦！我告訴你，如果你不給它一個時間，它一定會拖啦！我就告訴你一個時間，現在才11月初，我就告訴你，Meta公司從什麼時候開始如果沒有做到，我就按日處罰你。我就不相信如果一天罰1億元，它能多禁得起這樣的處罰，但你們就裝得皮皮的，部長，真的要加油！","我看到報紙有報導兆豐，它不是數發部耶！法令都給你們數發部了，但你們也只是喝咖啡而已，兆豐是直接說它不下廣告耶！還號召金融同業，大家不要在Meta下廣告，這個叫做「步數」啦！部長，我在這個台上問過你很多次、也質詢過你很多次，之前我告訴過你，接下來喝咖啡時可以泡難喝一點，如果它再繼續不改，你就換成毒藥，什麼喝咖啡，哪有那麼好！部長，民眾辛辛苦苦一輩子的血汗錢，這樣就被詐騙了，而且這個事件不是少數。如果是遭小偷可能一輩子就一次，他也沒看過小偷長什麼樣子，但他在生活中卻是無時無刻要面對詐騙的問題。因此，為什麼本席會著急，我們沒有辦法再拖啦！每天人民都在面對這種東西、這種苦難，因此，我們行政機關、立法機關要苦民所苦、要想到老百姓現在擔憂的是什麼問題。因此，為什麼本席會那麼積極？既然你們這樣不配合，我就不相信治不了你。人民的苦難，面對這些財團，難道我們沒有更積極、更有作為的作法嗎？部長，我真的要告訴你一句，你只要把打詐做好，數發部就會永留青史、你這個部長就會永留青史。"],["黃部長彥男：我痛恨詐騙，所以打詐……"],["蔡委員其昌：對，我也知道、我沒有質疑你不痛恨，只是方法與手段啊！兆豐都會想到不然就盡一點力氣，所以就不要給它廣告，這個就是「手路」、這個就是方法。我也相信你很討厭詐騙、你也是恨之入骨……"],["黃部長彥男：兆豐是一個很好的例子，我們公私協力一起把這個問題解決掉。"],["蔡委員其昌：是啦！你就是要有方法，因為這個就是數發部的主線，兆豐或其他民間企業都是輔助啦！我們負責主線的人真的最重要啦！好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：原本我要問很多題，但光是這一題，時間就已經到了，而主席也已經站了很久。加油啦！常常想到人民，真的，這個詐騙不行，臺灣不可以這個樣子，好不好？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡其昌委員。","接下來請魯明哲召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":246,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-9","speakers":["陳素月","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","游顥","何欣純","黃健豪","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","廖先翔","邱若華","陳雪生","賴士葆","黃國昌","吳春城","林月琴","麥玉珍","洪孟楷","許智傑","陳培瑜"],"page_start":185,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央\n政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算","agenda_id":"1139801_00010"}}},{"id":"156795","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156795","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678a6cbf4692f9f1eea370fa4497fc607c0ce953f66f7e5060526bd567c34d508ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"傅崐萁","委員發言時間":"11:43:21 - 11:53:01","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:43:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:53:01+08:00","duration":580,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.654093750000001,"end":11.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.927843750000001,"end":13.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.58534375,"end":27.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.58346875,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.33346875,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.915343750000005,"end":38.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.14721875,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.16409375,"end":39.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.22284375,"end":46.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.34846875,"end":48.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.765968750000006,"end":51.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.259093750000005,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.039093750000006,"end":56.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.52846875,"end":56.798468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.13596875,"end":59.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.06784375,"end":63.430343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.15596875,"end":66.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.70409375,"end":70.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.69909375,"end":72.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.98159375,"end":73.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.33159375000001,"end":77.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.94721875,"end":76.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.14971875,"end":82.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.46534375,"end":82.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.48221875,"end":82.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.90409375,"end":82.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.93784375,"end":83.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.28784375000001,"end":86.54909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.95409375,"end":87.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.44346875000001,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.06784375000001,"end":89.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.45596875000001,"end":89.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.29971875000001,"end":89.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.72159375000001,"end":89.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.75534375000001,"end":89.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.95784375000001,"end":89.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.39659375000001,"end":91.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.91096875000001,"end":102.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.54659375,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.35659375,"end":105.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.19159375000001,"end":110.37659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.73534375000001,"end":115.05096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.75971875,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.02096875000001,"end":121.32846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.40846875000001,"end":123.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.92721875000001,"end":125.63159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.13784375,"end":128.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.66909375,"end":130.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.49159375000002,"end":131.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.77409375000002,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.68096875,"end":136.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.19096875,"end":137.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.61284375,"end":142.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.99596875,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.51034375,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.78846875000002,"end":151.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.95659375,"end":155.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.25971875000002,"end":158.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":161.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.04784375,"end":162.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.67221875,"end":163.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.29221875000002,"end":164.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.49034375000002,"end":165.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.67159375,"end":170.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.02534375000002,"end":172.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.89846875,"end":178.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.92284375,"end":179.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.30659375000002,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.43284375000002,"end":186.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.03096875,"end":193.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.06471875000003,"end":189.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.58284375000002,"end":195.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.15221875,"end":196.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.09284375000001,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.74659375000002,"end":200.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.23159375,"end":202.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.88534375,"end":204.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.24784375000002,"end":207.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.82971875,"end":213.24659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.38159375,"end":215.62596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.38534375,"end":220.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.89096875,"end":224.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.36284375000002,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.50596875000002,"end":230.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.92721875,"end":235.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.07846875,"end":239.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.31409375,"end":244.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.81971875000002,"end":248.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.52784375000002,"end":251.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.36284375000002,"end":256.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.30721875,"end":258.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.74971875,"end":265.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.87971875,"end":266.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.09471875,"end":273.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.47346875,"end":274.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.03034375000004,"end":274.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.28346875,"end":274.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.84034375000005,"end":274.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.89096875,"end":275.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.03846875,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.25346875,"end":283.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.93596875000003,"end":284.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.79659375,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.06596875,"end":289.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.12909375000004,"end":294.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.00596875,"end":295.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.05659375000005,"end":297.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.77346875,"end":299.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.15284375000005,"end":300.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.65909375,"end":303.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.27034375,"end":304.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.90721875,"end":313.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.92721875,"end":313.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.48409375,"end":313.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.56846875,"end":323.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.87596875,"end":317.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.62659375000004,"end":319.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.74034375,"end":321.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.99721875,"end":324.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.13221875,"end":325.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.16596875000005,"end":324.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.41034375000004,"end":328.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.89096875,"end":330.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.10159375,"end":332.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.51909375,"end":335.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.34971875,"end":338.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.96534375000005,"end":340.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.39971875000003,"end":341.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.98596875000004,"end":348.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.12409375000004,"end":354.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.50721875000005,"end":356.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.71784375000004,"end":357.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.10159375,"end":359.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.85659375,"end":362.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.74221875,"end":363.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.41721875,"end":365.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.77971875000003,"end":369.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.09971875,"end":371.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.00659375000004,"end":380.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.46096875,"end":381.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.24971875,"end":382.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.16096875000005,"end":384.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.81471875,"end":386.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.61596875000004,"end":388.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.37534375,"end":389.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.70846875,"end":390.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.99096875000004,"end":394.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.56409375000004,"end":396.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.89721875000004,"end":398.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.73659375000005,"end":407.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.00534375,"end":407.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.34284375000004,"end":414.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.49471875,"end":407.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.78471875,"end":430.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.40659375,"end":431.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.53721875,"end":433.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.85346875000005,"end":434.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.92909375000005,"end":437.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.68409375000005,"end":438.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.43909375000004,"end":439.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.41784375000003,"end":442.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.32034375,"end":445.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.58159375,"end":449.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.61471875,"end":451.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.48346875000004,"end":458.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.70221875000004,"end":458.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.62596875,"end":466.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.94534375,"end":470.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.47221875,"end":473.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.45909375,"end":477.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.26409375000003,"end":483.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.80346875000004,"end":485.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.25034375,"end":488.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.69721875000005,"end":492.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.54471875,"end":493.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.50221875000005,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.65409375,"end":497.42159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.02534375000005,"end":495.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.42159375000006,"end":505.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.28221875,"end":500.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.62784375,"end":500.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.67846875000004,"end":500.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.89784375000005,"end":500.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.94846875,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.61471875,"end":504.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.57659375000003,"end":509.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.41971875,"end":515.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.0515937499999,"end":516.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.3047187500001,"end":520.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.9797187500001,"end":518.0090937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.46034375,"end":525.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.5190937500001,"end":522.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.09221875,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.36221875,"end":526.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.56846875,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.17159375,"end":531.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.0278437500001,"end":536.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.9765937500001,"end":537.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.19596875,"end":540.6047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.65096875,"end":542.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.8784687500001,"end":548.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.6965937500001,"end":546.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.0847187500001,"end":547.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.18596875,"end":547.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.5359687499999,"end":550.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.31221875,"end":549.9365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.6284687500001,"end":550.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.99971875,"end":551.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.84346875,"end":552.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.8603437500001,"end":551.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.1472187500001,"end":554.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.1765937499999,"end":554.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.6953437500001,"end":561.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.16784375,"end":556.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.6528437500001,"end":557.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.4878437500001,"end":577.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.93034375,"end":564.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.78159375,"end":570.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.0303437499999,"end":573.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.88221875,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.02971875,"end":581.32409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.923,"end":27.528,"text":"委員主席請部長跟署長請部長和署長謝謝委員好國家要成立體育部這是一個大事情雖然今天主席才是本委會只有6分鐘的時間我們本席還是盡量來問好不好這是國家的大事"},{"start":29.126,"end":55.424,"text":"我們明年開始這個體育部要掛牌8月份嘛是嗎是好那現在預算是大概200億400人因為還沒有成立所以我們這個1月4年的預算的編列大概有158億158億所以跟現在體育署的預算差多少錢今年大概跟今年大概多了20億多"},{"start":57.925,"end":82.018,"text":"掛牌有這麼急嗎?人也沒準備錢也沒準備就要掛牌。宣誓意義大於實質意義就是了。倉促上陣跟完備以後再上路會不會更好?我想很多的一個組織的發展他其實就...好可以沒問題本席是支持體育部的成立本席只是提醒你謝謝"},{"start":84.386,"end":103.728,"text":"竟然要做,就要做好。不要只是在口號。兩百億算夠嗎?我們逐步在隨著組織跟任務,我們希望在2026來朝那個目標來努力。哪一個目標?就兩百億。兩百億夠嗎?"},{"start":106.4,"end":131.909,"text":"目前應該因為我們在未來的運動那個部長看起來是還沒有準備好本席問的問題你都莫衷於是本席提醒你要成立一個體育部關係到全民的健康210不夠的提醒你一下終於算是3兆4千億堂堂一個關係全民的體育一個體育部210不夠的本席先提醒你再過來"},{"start":134.455,"end":163.103,"text":"運動習慣和運動方法是非常非常重要古今中外所有這些成功人士有人類史上成功人士幾乎年輕的時候都是運動員所以有他強健的耐力以及適度的能夠來釋放壓力所以體育是非常重要的一個國家的強大必須啊強總強根做起所以體育是非常非常重要尤其"},{"start":167.132,"end":186.793,"text":"運動員一讓而生下而隱其真也君子運動家的精誠非常重要所以本席希望運動部是有高度期待而且必須請部長全力以赴不要含含糊糊210不夠的你給本席一份書面210要做什麼東西"},{"start":189.059,"end":196.495,"text":"發展部組織法草案案 案 要給本席一份。兩百一你能做什麼東西本席很懷疑。再過來全民運、全中運、全大運"},{"start":198.32,"end":225.754,"text":"現在補助金額大概啦比方說辦一個年度的全中運需要場館整理需要3億我們過去都大概補助大概1億左右嘛是不是所以啊本席建議你未來的全中運全大運還有這個全民運要各縣市打破頭真相來辦不是體育署挨家戶沿街拖泊拜託大家來辦沒有人要辦"},{"start":227.537,"end":228.999,"text":"運動部組織法草案（事由．一．一、併案審查一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查．一、併案審查"},{"start":249.531,"end":253.232,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一）行政院函請審議:「運動部組織法草案．一）行政院擬具"},{"start":267.63,"end":288.045,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒,我想這也是一個不錯的一個方式。好,謝謝。再過來以後就以後體育部或者是教育部就不用沿街拖拖拜託各縣市,大家爭相排隊來爭取,爭其鬥焰。好不好?這國家的體育才是真正受到重視。"},{"start":289.266,"end":290.287,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":305.973,"end":334.132,"text":"就人才的一個培育他怎麼樣善用現有的一個資源如果有需要我想我們不排斥你們盡快跟體育部綁在一起來考慮這個問題好不好離家近就近來訓練培育選手他的心理素質他的寄託會更好好不好再過來運動員為何而戰為自己而戰是為國而戰為國爭光除了自己的榮耀以外為誰而戰"},{"start":337.118,"end":364.998,"text":"運動員我們要怎麼樣去培養他們未來不只要能夠在國內能夠而且這個最希望能夠在國際能為台灣來爭光但是這些不管是過去的什麼金融少棒這些世界冠軍的少棒隊這些運動員最後呢過去當什麼當什麼清潔隊員等等等等無疾而終抑鬱而終當教練的少之又少"},{"start":365.879,"end":393.114,"text":"本席在這裡對體育部有高度的期許要為國家爭光這些體育人才得獎的、得奪牌的這些人才必須考慮終身照護要把制度建立起來OK謝謝委員提醒我們會支持再過來欸、革命啊不要那麼快嘛再過來我們一定啊要把運動賽事"},{"start":395.612,"end":409.035,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案件事宜 與我們的經濟是要綁在一起的。把運動員跟國家資源跟企業還有國際品牌把它全部綁在一起來,這個資源才會豐沛。為了體育部必須要這麼做,比方說F1賽車,國際的馬拉松,國際的這個自行車賽,還有國際的電競大賽,這都把它讓台灣不只是觀光島,"},{"start":421.678,"end":422.158,"text":"體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":443.419,"end":466.154,"text":"我想這個問題我想我們現在目前所有的團隊就是努力把提部長腰桿要挺直啦你應該講重視專業尊重專業可以嗎是當然是可以嗎是不要又又是當然立法院立法院出去的人才也都不錯啦對不對但是本來是希望啦"},{"start":467.374,"end":492.994,"text":"運動就專業啦!部會首長只要專業啦好不好!不要都是搞一些政治仇傭啦!另外齁賴總統的事情阿斌你們要注意一下齁賴總統說啊我們林玉婷奧運金牌在國際上受到污蔑是不是應該為她爭一個公道賴總統下令要爭取公道要打國際輸送你們做到沒有?做了沒有?"},{"start":494.54,"end":495.561,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":516.152,"end":516.672,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案案"},{"start":543.939,"end":549.896,"text":"行政院函及法制及文化委員會第11屆第2會期司法及法制及文化委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制及文化委員會第1屆"},{"start":551.017,"end":552.837,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案案案案案案案案案"},{"start":578.304,"end":578.505,"text":"謝謝部長也謝謝委員先處理"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":818,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（11時43分）主席，請部長跟署長。"],["主席：請部長和署長，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["傅委員崐萁：國家要成立體育部，這是一個大事情，雖然今天主席裁示本委員會只有6分鐘發言的時間，但本席還是儘量來問，畢竟這是國家的大事，我們體育部明年8月份開始要掛牌，是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是的。"],["傅委員崐萁：現在預算大概是200億、400人？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前因為還沒有成立，所以我們114年預算的編列，大概有158億。"],["傅委員崐萁：所以跟現在體育署的預算差多少錢？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟今年相較大概多了二十億多。"],["傅委員崐萁：這個掛牌有這麼急嗎？人也沒準備，錢也沒準備就要掛牌，宣示意義大於實質意義就是了？倉促上陣跟完備以後再上路會不會更好？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想很多組織的發展，其實……"],["傅委員崐萁：好，可以，沒問題，本席是支持體育部的成立。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席只是提醒你，既然要做就要做好，不要只是口號。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，應該的。"],["傅委員崐萁：200億預算夠嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們會逐步隨著組織跟任務調整，希望朝2026年那個目標來努力。"],["傅委員崐萁：哪一個目標？"],["鄭部長英耀：200億。"],["傅委員崐萁：200億夠嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為我們在未來的運動發展……"],["傅委員崐萁：部長看起來是還沒有準備好，本席問的問題都莫衷一是，本席提醒你，要成立一個體育部，關係到全民的健康，200億是不夠的，提醒你一下，總預算是3兆4,000億，堂堂一個關係全民體育的體育部，200億是不夠的，本席在此先提醒你。","再來，運動習慣、運動方法是非常非常的重要，古今中外所有的成功人士，有人類史以來的成功人士，幾乎年輕的時候都是運動員，所以有強健的耐力以及適度的釋放壓力，這時體育是非常重要的，一個國家的強大必須從強種跟強根做起，所以體育非常非常重要，尤其運動員，揖讓而生，下而飲，其爭也君子，運動家的精神非常重要，所以本席對運動部有高度期待，而且必須請部長全力以赴，不要含含糊糊，200億是不夠的，你給本席一份書面，包括這200億要做什麼東西？"],["鄭部長英耀：會後會提供。"],["傅委員崐萁：200億你能做什麼東西，本席很懷疑。","再來，關於全民運、全中運、全大運，現在的補助金額上，比方說辦一個年度的全中運，場館整理需要3億，我們過去大概補助1億左右，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：所以本席建議你未來的全中運、全大運，還有全民運，要各縣市打破頭爭相來辦，不是體育署挨家挨戶、沿街托缽，拜託大家來辦；但沒有人要辦；辦完以後，場館的館養誰負責？當然地方政府要負責。本席當過縣市首長，所以很清楚告訴你，大家都在推，照理講，這是全民的好事情，但沒有人要辦，為什麼沒有人要辦？因為要拿自己的縣市預算出來，所以本席在這裡建議，未來用評選方式，要大家來爭取；然後所有場館符合我們國際賽事的相關標準；所有場館的費用必須整個由體育部來負責，未來的館養由地方政府負責，但是他們要來爭取，要讓大家排隊來爭取，了解嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，我想這也是一個不錯的方式。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，謝謝。再來，以後體育部或者是教育部，就不用沿街托缽拜託各縣市，大家爭相排隊來爭取，大家爭奇鬥艷，這樣國家的體育才是真正受到重視。","再來，現在我們的國家培訓中心在左營，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：有沒有考慮過，我們國家有這麼多優秀的選手，都是來自於山地跟部落，部長，東部是不是可以成立國家第二培訓中心？"],["鄭部長英耀：就人才的培育，怎麼樣善用現有的資源，如果有需要，我想我們不排斥……"],["傅委員崐萁：你們能儘快跟體育部綁在一起才來考慮這個問題，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝提醒。"],["傅委員崐萁：離家近，就近來訓練、培育選手，他的心理素質、他的寄託會更好。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：再來，運動員為何而戰？為自己而戰還是為國而戰、為國爭光？除了自己的榮耀以外，為誰而戰？運動員我們要怎麼樣去培養他們，未來不只能夠在國內，而且更希望能夠在國際為臺灣來爭光，但是不管是過去的金龍少棒或是勇奪世界冠軍的少棒隊，這些運動員最後就只能當什麼清潔隊員等等無疾而終、抑鬱而終，當教練的少之又少，本席在這裡對體育部有高度的期許，他們要為國家爭光，而這些體育人才、這些得獎奪牌的人才，必須考慮終身照護，要把這個制度建立起來，OK？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["傅委員崐萁：我們會支持。佳濱，不要那麼快站起來！","再來，我們一定要把運動賽事跟我們的經濟是綁在一起的，把運動員跟國家資源、跟企業還有國際品牌，把它全部綁在一起，這個資源才會豐沛，未來體育部必須要這麼做。比方說F1賽車、國際的馬拉松、國際的自行車賽還有國際的電競大賽，臺灣不只是觀光島，還要成為一個體育島、國際的體育大島，好不好？希望你們能夠全力來推動。","最後一個問題，阿濱不要急。最後一個問題很重要，既然要成立體育部，請問部長，第一任體育部的部長，你希望推薦誰？"],["鄭部長英耀：關於這個問題，我想我們目前所有的團隊，就是努力把體育部……"],["傅委員崐萁：部長，腰桿要挺直，你應該講，重視專業、尊重專業，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，當然是這樣。"],["傅委員崐萁：可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：當然立法院出去的人才也都不錯，對不對？但是本席還是希望，運動就要專業啦！部會首長就要專業啦！不要都是搞一些政治酬庸。","另外，賴總統的事情，阿濱你們要注意一下。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["傅委員崐萁：賴總統說，我們林郁婷奧運金牌得主，在國際上受到污衊，是不是應該為他爭一個公道？賴總統下令要爭取公道，要打國際訴訟，你們做到沒有？做了沒有？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為選手他本身……"],["主席：請署長。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，在巴黎奧運期間我們有召開記者會去強烈的做一個反映。"],["傅委員崐萁：這是該做的嘛！"],["鄭署長世忠：但是選手他本身……"],["傅委員崐萁：署長，本席沒有在問你，我在問部長，你們位階在他下面，當然負責人是他，不是你嘛！請問部長，這個是不是應該要說清楚？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們確實在巴黎也開了記者會……"],["傅委員崐萁：這是國家的運動員拿到奧運金牌，受到這樣的侮辱，是不是我們國家應該硬起來，賴總統都講話了，你們做到什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，當時我們在法國巴黎就開了記者會。"],["主席：謝謝……"],["傅委員崐萁：很簡單，賴總統講的，現在就請您去做，因為川普先生再度說男變女的事情，請教育部要發聲，要像一個國家的部長，要有國格，好不好？部長，有問題嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["傅委員崐萁：要不要發聲？要不要發聲？"],["主席：部長也自我推薦是運動部長……"],["傅委員崐萁：本席會到教育委員會再找你喔！你現在回答本席，要不要發聲？"],["鄭部長英耀：國際上他們對運動選手的一些想法，我想我們予以尊重。"],["主席：謝謝委員，也謝謝部長。"],["傅委員崐萁：要發聲，知道嗎？"],["主席：感謝……"],["傅委員崐萁：不要什麼尊重誰的看法……"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有特別提到臺灣……"],["傅委員崐萁：要尊重川普說的男變女，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝部長，也謝謝委員。現在先處理會議時間，上午會議時間繼續進行至所有登記發言委員詢答結束及討論事項提案條文宣讀完畢為止。","接下來請吳委員沛憶發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156794","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156794","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678825a774bbb1da80e9fc666e425fd8fe7ce953f66f7e506053a001556f561b11a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"11:42:17 - 11:53:09","影片長度":"00:10:52","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:42:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:53:09+08:00","duration":652,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.50346875,"end":2.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.489093750000002,"end":13.007843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.665968750000001,"end":15.336593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.910343750000003,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.602218750000002,"end":17.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.02284375,"end":25.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.60909375,"end":26.625968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.625968750000002,"end":27.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.617218750000003,"end":33.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.44346875,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.721593750000004,"end":36.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.93659375,"end":38.235968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.62409375,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.42971875,"end":40.868468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.986593750000004,"end":42.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.55159375,"end":45.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.58471875,"end":47.618468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.618468750000005,"end":48.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.18346875,"end":53.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.47409375,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.87659375,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.43721875,"end":75.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.47471875000001,"end":80.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.60471875,"end":83.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.93346875,"end":87.86534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.52346875,"end":92.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.06284375,"end":93.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.44659375,"end":96.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.94409375000001,"end":99.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":101.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.42846875000001,"end":105.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.41096875000001,"end":107.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.89596875000001,"end":112.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.73909375000001,"end":113.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.65034375,"end":116.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.80596875,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.80971875,"end":122.37471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.56034375,"end":127.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.46659375000002,"end":132.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.02284375000002,"end":134.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.30096875,"end":140.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.44784375,"end":150.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.69096875,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.62659375,"end":161.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.28846875000002,"end":165.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.24971875,"end":169.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.14784375000002,"end":170.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.95784375000002,"end":178.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.42909375000002,"end":181.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.04471875000002,"end":196.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.03409375,"end":197.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.00846875000002,"end":202.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.96971875000003,"end":207.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.39096875,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.29784375000003,"end":212.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.80784375000002,"end":222.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.27471875,"end":232.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.30846875,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.58096875,"end":236.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.41159375,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.20034375,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.40159375000002,"end":249.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.05534375000002,"end":249.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.59534375,"end":249.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.62909375,"end":264.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.61409375,"end":265.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.96409375,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.53784375000004,"end":266.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.55471875,"end":269.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.82846875,"end":280.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.30784375,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":286.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.37846875,"end":304.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.27034375,"end":307.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.61159375,"end":313.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.70346875,"end":326.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.83221875000004,"end":328.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.05971875,"end":331.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.32096875,"end":332.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.24471875,"end":334.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.50596875,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.36221875,"end":338.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.67409375,"end":343.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.80409375000005,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.03534375000004,"end":372.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.44159375000004,"end":369.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.06159375000004,"end":372.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.91784375000003,"end":372.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.96846875,"end":378.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.87471875,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.04284375000003,"end":384.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.30409375000005,"end":386.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.92409375,"end":389.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.91096875000005,"end":400.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.60971875,"end":402.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.59659375,"end":404.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.21659375,"end":409.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.73909375000005,"end":415.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.59471875,"end":418.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.47596875000005,"end":419.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.49284375,"end":433.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.60471875,"end":432.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.49909375000004,"end":440.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.59909375,"end":450.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.57284375,"end":454.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.55471875,"end":458.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.25034375,"end":469.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.18971875000005,"end":473.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.53909375,"end":481.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.94721875000005,"end":484.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.25471875000005,"end":486.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.29659375000006,"end":491.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.07221875000005,"end":493.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.70909375,"end":496.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.57784375000006,"end":502.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.95221875000004,"end":504.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.84659375,"end":507.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.28909375,"end":509.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.07784375000006,"end":514.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.54534375,"end":519.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.6840937500001,"end":519.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.61221875,"end":524.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.65784375,"end":527.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.50971875,"end":529.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.10409375,"end":535.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.66034375,"end":537.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.2084687500001,"end":539.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.6215937500001,"end":544.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.31284375,"end":550.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.3372187500001,"end":554.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.77971875,"end":554.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.04971875,"end":555.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.1172187500001,"end":556.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.02846875,"end":556.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.1084687499999,"end":557.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.12534375,"end":557.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.73284375,"end":566.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.56284375,"end":569.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.41034375,"end":574.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.6415937500001,"end":580.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.8272187499999,"end":575.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.09221875,"end":588.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.59409375,"end":581.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.0234687500001,"end":588.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.05721875,"end":588.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.10784375,"end":590.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.23409375,"end":591.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.2509687500001,"end":591.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.75284375,"end":592.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.57971875,"end":594.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.41909375,"end":594.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.4697187500001,"end":594.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.55409375,"end":594.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.8915937500001,"end":596.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.99284375,"end":596.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.1740937500001,"end":596.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.3259687500001,"end":597.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.6084687499999,"end":598.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.49846875,"end":604.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.96596875,"end":605.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.25284375,"end":611.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.8003437500001,"end":613.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.9053437499999,"end":618.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.34784375,"end":619.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.44471875,"end":619.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.5290937500001,"end":628.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.2409687500001,"end":651.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.85409375,"end":651.0009687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1,"end":16.83,"text":"請陳昌明委員諮詢。陳昌明委員謝謝主席。首先有請農業部陳部長。請陳部長。各位老闆、國民老闆。"},{"start":28.686,"end":35.834,"text":"修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法修正草案．及動物保護法"},{"start":50.273,"end":72.506,"text":"其養這是一個原因第二個部分是說這些野外的流浪貓的自然的繁殖那自然的繁殖本身如果說以它現在的繁殖倍率跟它的公母的比例的時候我們現在的一些作為的確有抑制但是沒有辦法馬上就把它清零我告訴你這事情要追求本人"},{"start":73.479,"end":92.017,"text":"我現在看這個社會經濟觀,我們現在推寵物車的比推嬰兒車的還要多。第二個,我是實際講,我的裡面秘書請教我這個動物的話不能亂講話。現在交郭叫寵物比交郭也流鼻子流不完。"},{"start":93.123,"end":97.185,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":120.141,"end":121.222,"text":"條文修正草案案。"},{"start":128.493,"end":156.782,"text":"我覺得這個很重要你感染就要負這樣的責任為什麼會有這樣的情形?人是叫做接力的問題起因啊吼這個壓力很大所以隨時都會被盯著你沒有做你覺得良心不安各種條件就會來制裁你你要好好的照顧你下一代孩子啊這些寵物今天我心情好我就把他抱在一起我不要生氣了或是各種"},{"start":157.722,"end":181.128,"text":"把寵物放到外面他沒有一點社會責任的所以你要從這個根本上你敢給我取寵物你有給我拿政府的寶座還是給我訪問真的照顧寵物養的權比照顧小孩子養的權還痛所以你這個大姐的限制性條件沒你公的那些沒得抓那現在政府為什麼不敢做"},{"start":182.108,"end":197.069,"text":"因為年輕養的寵物很多選票有關係只要稍微講的對寵物不好的話選票都跑掉了但是我這個人我實際去做事我把這個問題貼著讓你們好好研究你們的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":198.25,"end":211.826,"text":"我跟委員報告第一個就是說我們其實已經在推動重複身分證那重複身分證其實代表了重複的一個身分以外也代表了寵物的登記那有了登記以後後面的管理這是第一點"},{"start":212.927,"end":235.641,"text":"第二點齁就是我們看到現在的很多流浪貓流浪犬包括現在的整個的寵物的一個市場裡面我覺得非常重要就是事主的責任啊對對對沿途管事哈我是跟你講一點這個詞題我不敢亂講因為我看到實在人跟照顧寵物跟照顧人類的不一樣我們有感受但是不敢講聽得懂嗎第二個"},{"start":239.264,"end":263.515,"text":"那外界第10屆委員會的時候南部的所謂喉嚨跑到國園裡面去啊你們怎樣去防治有沒有進一步的成果我們現在第一個就是我們用電幕網的部分去做一個補助然後更重要就是說我也請我們的林保署那邊去公開徵求更好的方法我們給予獎金徵求出來了沒有現在還在"},{"start":264.756,"end":267.239,"text":"還在徵求當中我現在怎麼提這個問題出來"},{"start":283.615,"end":285.156,"text":"本院委員林宜瑾等16人擬具:「動物保護法部分條文修正草案案。"},{"start":307.705,"end":329.52,"text":"但是我苗栗縣現在山區的狗籠都已經碰到這種問題。啊我會在第10屆開始講到現在我現在來啟床。我每次下鄉的時候那些人都說欸你也沒有歡迎啊你也沒有該掛帳的收費。我就等著這一天南部的經驗怎麼樣。你讓我對水果的損害。那我告訴你"},{"start":336.824,"end":343.127,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":361.917,"end":374.743,"text":"那在一些情況之下他是可以獵殺的可是人我們針對獵殺通常不喜歡這樣做所以我們都是用圍捕的用電幕網的部分你講的我們農業一流啊我們的動物我們的實驗所還缺其實這個可以一個專案去想你們現在不在場自己想開幾年"},{"start":385.847,"end":402.217,"text":"來補充條,要是有一種生物秩序的話,不傷害寵物又能貫徹牠的繁衍的話,臨時去研究借嘛,不要做傳統的做法,我今天會重點一點而已,我苗栗的問題要如何解決。"},{"start":403.929,"end":418.661,"text":"我先講喔,我苗栗的那個水果市都在山坡地喔,跟南坡的平地不一樣,人家有的有的,我們要再變來變去,要再管再給喔。你幫我想要怎麼來解決,我幫你考取解決。"},{"start":420.071,"end":439.636,"text":"我會跟委員報告,就是說第一個像這樣的一個防火的部分應該跟當地的居民、農民一起合作啦那提供巡守的部分然後驅趕的部分那試驗單位現在有非常多的驅趕的這個作為你這表面文章我怎麼知道那個狗,狗我怎麼知道晚上要來還是晚上要來"},{"start":441.656,"end":442.017,"text":"規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":455.655,"end":480.494,"text":"您真正是不作為公務這新的技術。你們這樣的問題就沒有辦法解決。你們那麼多的實驗所,你們那麼多的專家,安然視守無策。台灣公農業的進步我也不怎麼相信。尤其你是那個科技的那種來當部長,應該想出新的辦法。我現在要解決我地方的問題。"},{"start":485.307,"end":512.533,"text":"你那個電網你說了搞我不曉得早上晚上來我天天要派人去繞山區那麼大如何去找所以這不務實際我看了你們管政府說不錯我就我不相信不錯我說很爛的做法再來你要怎麼把這裡搞這裡來保護這裡的農民你們一定有一套辦法這樣五十年這個問題沒辦法讓人改觀"},{"start":515.609,"end":517.01,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程。"},{"start":531.158,"end":549.361,"text":"如果確實嚴重,農業障礙我這個地方我會照出來一看。你用農業障礙的補償辦法。你這辦法想給這些農民,不然水果種了那麼久,採的量那麼少,疑心何忍啊。這跟你那個農業障礙保護沒有說這麼多啊。"},{"start":551.397,"end":553.238,"text":"規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規"},{"start":574.913,"end":598.49,"text":"我會慎重的考慮就是說以現在來講就是我們只有天然災害救助的辦法你不能說照以往這個是天然災害啊你們說不能把米油殺了我他來吃我的不是天然災害是什麼天然災害有天然災害的範疇啊這也是天然災害的一種您把它納入裡面嘛這我們要來檢討這什麼事我跟你講花的錢不多"},{"start":599.551,"end":600.771,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":614.923,"end":615.704,"text":"規劃內容與進程：及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":635.643,"end":637.544,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":764,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時42分）謝謝主席。首先有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["陳委員超明：部長早。今天主要是討論動物保護法，我請教你一個問題，幾十年來我們的流浪狗、流浪貓只有增加，沒有減少，原因到底在哪裡？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分就是棄養，這是一個原因。第二個部分就是這些野外的流浪貓自然的繁殖，如果以現在的繁殖倍率跟公母的比例來說，現在的一些作為的確有抑制，但是沒有辦法馬上就清零。"],["陳委員超明：好，我告訴你，做事情要追求本源，我現在看這個社會很奇怪，現在推寵物車的比推嬰兒車的還要多。第二個，我是實際講，我的秘書告訴我有關動物的部分不能亂講話，現在照顧這些寵物的比照顧他的爸爸媽媽更重要，而且下的心力又多，一隻寵物過世，如喪考妣，我們每天跑婚喪喜慶，感觸良多，所以在此我要說，既然寵物也要跟人一樣，對於敢養寵物的人，我要問，我們現在所有的寵物體內只有植入晶片而已，對不對？你要養寵物，那麼就要跟人登記身分證一樣，都要登記下來，我覺得這個很重要，你敢養，就要負這樣的責任，為什麼會有這樣的情形？養人是有責任的問題，養孩子壓力很大，隨時都會被盯著，你沒有做，會覺得良心不安，各種條件就會來制裁你，要你好好照顧下一代的孩子。如果是養寵物，今天我心情好，我就把牠抱在一起，我生氣了，或是各種理由，我就把寵物放到外面，沒有負一點社會責任，所以你要從根本上去處理，你敢養寵物，你有拿政府的補助或是各方面的補貼，真的，照顧寵物的錢比照顧小孩子的錢還多，所以你們要限制一個條件，不然你說了那麼多也沒有用。現在政府為什麼不敢做？因為年輕人養寵物很多，跟選票有關係，只要稍微講得對寵物不好的話，選票都跑掉了，但是我這個人是實際做事情，我把這個問題拿出來，你們好好研究，你的看法怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，我們其實已經在推動寵物身分證，寵物身分證除了代表寵物的身分以外，也代表了寵物的登記，有了登記以後，後面的管理就可以做。","第二點，我們看到現在很多流浪貓、流浪犬，包括現在整個寵物市場，我覺得非常重要的就是飼主的責任……"],["陳委員超明：對，對，對，源頭管制好。我是跟你說這點，這個主題我不敢亂講，因為我看到實在的情形，照顧寵物跟照顧人不一樣，我們有感受到，但是不敢講，聽得懂嗎？","第二個，我還記得立法院第10屆委員會的時候，南部的人說獼猴跑到果園裡面去，你們怎麼樣去防治？有沒有進一步的成果？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在第一個就是對電幕網的部分去補助，然後更重要的就是，我會請我們的林保署去公開徵求更好的方法，我們給予獎金。"],["陳委員超明：徵求出來了沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：現在還在徵求當中。"],["陳委員超明：好，現在表示你們復育成功，以前在我們苗栗、臺中都沒有獼猴，結果你把網子做下來，獼猴就從南部一直跑到北部、中部來了，我現在為什麼提這個問題出來？我下鄉的時候，那些果農告訴我：欸！陳委員，你家做高科技的，不然你也去找一些生技的東西來，那些猴子來，就對牠們注射，不是要讓牠們死，我先講好，是讓牠們不能生。我說：我不敢做，你叫我去做這個東西出來，那些養寵物的人會把我罵死。但是我們苗栗縣現在山區的果農都已經碰到這樣的問題。我還記得從第10屆開始說到現在，我現在來取經，我每一次下鄉的時候，那些果農說我都沒有反映，也沒有解決問題，所以我就等著這一天，南部的經驗怎麼樣？獼猴對水果的損害，我跟你說，一棵梨子果樹原本可以生產140顆至160顆梨子，被獼猴偷吃以後剩不到10顆，要怎麼解決？有沒有好的方法？那麼久了，有沒有想出一套辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，之前獼猴是保育類動物，所以我們保護的強度比較強，獼猴的繁衍速度太快，現在已經降為一般類的野生動物，在一些情況之下，是可以獵殺的，可是我們通常不喜歡獵殺，所以我們都是用電幕網圍捕的。"],["陳委員超明：部長，你說臺灣是一個進步的國家，你說我們農業一流，我們的動物實驗所那麼多，其實可以做一個專案去想，你們現在沒有在想，只會花錢來補償，要是有一種生物製劑，不傷害寵物又能斷絕牠的繁衍，你們就要去研究，不要照傳統的做法。我今天的重點只有一點，我苗栗的問題要如何解決？我先說，我們苗栗的水果都是種在山坡地，跟南部種在平地不一樣，網子圍了以後，還要拉緊，拉高拉低來調整，你幫我想一下怎麼來解決，我給你考試一下。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，像這樣的防猴的部分，應該跟當地的居民、農民一起合作，提供巡守，然後驅趕，試驗單位現在有非常多的驅趕的作為……"],["陳委員超明：你都作表面文章，我怎麼知道如何捉猴？我怎麼知道猴子晚上要來還是白天要來？我們人不就要每天都去巡視？你們要出多少錢？現在人工就不夠了嘛，我們要用有實效的方法嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在是用圍捕的方式，我們會根據委員的意見，看有沒有更積極的作為。"],["陳委員超明：這樣好了，你們真的是不作為，不研究一個新的技術，那麼這樣的問題就沒有辦法解決，你們那麼多的實驗所，你們那麼多的專家，卻束手無策，要說臺灣農業有多進步，我也不怎麼相信，尤其你是科技出身的來當部長，應該想出新的辦法，我現在只是要解決我們地方的問題，你說要裝那個電網，你說要抓猴，我不曉得猴子是早上還是晚上來，我天天要派人去繞，山區那麼大，如何去找？所以這不務實。我看到我們縣政府說不錯，我不相信這不錯，我說是很爛的做法。再來，你要怎麼處理這些猴子，來保護農民？你們一定有一套辦法，過了五、六年，這個問題沒有辦法解決。"],["陳部長駿季：委員如果有比較好的辦法，我們也樂於接受，因為我們對外徵求……"],["陳委員超明：好，改天你請我吃飯，我再跟你說。再等我一下，我還有幾個問題，現在有這樣的情形，能不能用農業災害補償的方式來處理？災害確實嚴重，我特別發誓給你看，你用農業災害的補償辦法，先補償這些農民，不然他們水果種了那麼久，採收的量那麼少，你於心何忍？這個用農業災害來補償，不會用很多錢，你能不能這麼做？我現在是要求做出解決事情的辦法。"],["陳部長駿季：災害的救助是一個事後的處理，我們還是希望有更多的方法，包括外界也都……"],["陳委員超明：我現在不能等到你有更多的方法，災害已經造成了，目前的辦法你要先幫我想出來。"],["陳部長駿季：我會慎重地考慮，以現在來講，我們只有天然災害救助的辦法……"],["陳委員超明：你不能說照以往，這個是天然災害啊！你們說不能把獼猴殺了，牠們來吃農民種的水果，不是天然災害是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：天然災害有天然災害的範疇。"],["陳委員超明：這也是天然災害的一種，你把它納入裡面嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：這個我們會來檢討……"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，花的錢不多，你為什麼不改變？颱風受災叫做天然災害，獼猴從山上跑下來，你們說不能動牠、不能怎樣，又說不算天然災害！天然災害有好幾種，你要幫忙解決，不然這個問題永遠不能解決。"],["陳部長駿季：事後的救助，我們會再來看用什麼樣的方法是適合的，但是最前端的這些源頭，我們還是希望說……"],["陳委員超明：事後發生的事情，希望你們提出一個辦法，一個月內我們好好研討一下，不然我承受不了壓力，每一次下鄉，吃到那個水果，我就不好意思吃，水果被猴子吃了，我是人卻不好意思吃，我跟你講，我是有良心的。"],["主席：好，請部長一個月內到陳委員辦公室去說明。"],["陳委員超明：好，謝謝。"],["主席：中午不休息，我們延長會議時間。","現在請邱志偉召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156792","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156792","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66789d61f62daabb3d6f5158c0789247a306ce953f66f7e5060593c5041e5e26a2c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:45:14 - 11:51:12","影片長度":"00:05:58","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:45:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:51:12+08:00","duration":358,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.25034375000000003,"end":1.0603437500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.11096875,"end":2.0559687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.37659375,"end":3.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.240343750000001,"end":11.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.640968750000003,"end":12.805343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.36221875,"end":16.129718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.63596875,"end":18.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.86346875,"end":20.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.64784375,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.94721875,"end":23.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.70659375,"end":24.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.39409375,"end":26.929718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.87034375,"end":30.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.996593750000002,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.83596875,"end":34.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.89471875,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.00846875,"end":39.923468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.37909375,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.28159375,"end":66.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.94034375000001,"end":79.19159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.96534375,"end":69.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.01971875000001,"end":72.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.37721875000001,"end":80.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.42784375000001,"end":83.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.57096875,"end":86.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.02159375000001,"end":98.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.53034375,"end":99.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.09971875000001,"end":101.93909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.73221875,"end":103.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.49159375,"end":104.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.75721875,"end":106.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.74409375,"end":109.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.64659375000001,"end":113.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.68409375,"end":114.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.18596875,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.36284375000001,"end":118.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.83096875000001,"end":120.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.60284375,"end":120.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.34534375000001,"end":122.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.96096875,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.23034375,"end":151.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.25221875,"end":153.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.93096875,"end":159.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.92159375,"end":172.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.35846875000001,"end":175.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.41284375,"end":181.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.61471875,"end":183.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.66034375,"end":188.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.98034375,"end":193.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.63346875000002,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.67534375000002,"end":197.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.44721875000002,"end":200.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.47221875000002,"end":202.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.68284375000002,"end":203.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.20596875,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.69909375,"end":210.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.90534375000001,"end":213.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.13721875000002,"end":212.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.15784375,"end":216.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.89159375000003,"end":218.98409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.23721875,"end":223.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.50221875000003,"end":230.40846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.99909375000001,"end":236.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.17534375000002,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.31846875000002,"end":239.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.19596875000002,"end":241.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.08596875,"end":246.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.33846875,"end":247.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.94159375,"end":248.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.24096875,"end":253.54409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.91534375,"end":254.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.90659375,"end":256.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.78409375,"end":259.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.29846875000004,"end":259.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.24346875000003,"end":262.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.48784375,"end":268.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.08596875,"end":273.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.79409375,"end":285.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.57284375,"end":289.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.48346875000004,"end":290.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.58471875000004,"end":297.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.33034375,"end":306.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.05471875,"end":308.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.82659375000003,"end":310.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.53096875,"end":311.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.75034375,"end":312.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.06659375000004,"end":314.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.58971875000003,"end":313.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.39096875,"end":319.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.14971875000003,"end":322.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.54596875000004,"end":334.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.85659375,"end":336.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.90659375,"end":341.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.81284375,"end":343.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.92659375,"end":344.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.23034375000003,"end":344.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.65221875000003,"end":350.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.28846875000005,"end":352.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.41909375,"end":357.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.78596875,"end":356.66721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.269,"end":3.01,"text":"有請國防部的顧部長來部長請Sir 賴委員好你好 這個我時間很少希望你就簡單我問很簡單的問題你就簡單的回答這個關於有大家關心的啦就是大家關心的說"},{"start":28.922,"end":41.876,"text":"路透社啊什麼的國際媒體說台灣要跟美國買將近5000億的軍購你前面都有說明我知道了我就問你一個F35有沒有可能"},{"start":43.322,"end":65.999,"text":"各位委員報告我想所有可能對於我們這個平時應對灰色地帶跟暫時這個拒止這個共軍犯台的這樣子的一個必要的這個相關的武器都會在我們的考量之內但是具體的這些哪一些個別的武器裝備我想我們會循這個台美的交流機制來跟美方進行溝通"},{"start":68.062,"end":78.318,"text":"這個F35基金是不可能嘛因為他這個要同盟國才有而且要出他的研發經費我們也沒有出那這個基本上我就不知道啦齁這個"},{"start":79.545,"end":106.708,"text":"所以我們不會對個別的裝備來加以有任何的評論這個話當然是我們的官方放出來的嘛這個一定是我們的這個高層或者你們國防部或者總統府那邊國安會那邊放出的消息啊這個結果放出來接到林鄭月娥說啊這方略是太這個太這個外行了齁我想這個川普啊等一下因為我時間有限我就問你"},{"start":107.839,"end":122.525,"text":"川普說台灣要付保護費啊到底要付多少他才會滿意啊你能不能回答一下台電從軍購以及晶片到底是多少你心裡有沒有我想我之前都已經回答了我們"},{"start":124.193,"end":150.911,"text":"與南美之間的軍事交流就非常的綿密而且已經制度性了這個制度已經是一個制度化的一個軍事交流的一個機制讓我們任何的這個如果要向美軍購這個相關的這個武器裝備或者甚至訓練等等我們都是循這個機制來提出去的那所以也要符合事實上我們雙方都認同這個是一個符合作戰的實際需要"},{"start":154.053,"end":158.784,"text":"我們的國防經費是不是會每年提高就你這個"},{"start":159.98,"end":182.41,"text":"我們國防部的立場我剛剛已經說明了我們現在近3年都平均成長大概8%左右所以我們預期應該希望國防預算還是能夠穩健的成長就是穩健每年8%成長我沒有敢說我們一定會成長多少8%不夠啦如果按照川普的講法8%怎麼夠"},{"start":184.747,"end":204.263,"text":"起碼要20%以上每年要成長20%好我現在給你一些的觀念概念川普是生意人你同意吧生意人出身但是美台還是有一個共同利益我知道但是生意人出身來請問你了解川普嗎我想我不適宜在這裡對這個好就可以引用一下全世界公認"},{"start":214.229,"end":237.778,"text":"很瞭解川普的人一個叫安倍晉三已經過去了他講過川普重視數字而不是價值台灣現在我們的政府強調什麼民主同盟在川普來講不重視他要逼他就說要嘛就達成協議否則拉倒我講這些話都是安倍晉三講的那我就告訴你"},{"start":240.269,"end":254.654,"text":"這個川普一定要求我們基尼部隊買更多的武器就在問題在於是不是我們要的而這個數字呢我都覺得因為我們現在請問你知道我們現在每年賺美國多少錢你知道嗎貿易順差您說台灣跟美國的貿易順差你知道多少嗎一年我現在手上沒有這個數字最少500億美金有人講600億有人講700億甚至於2023有到800億"},{"start":269.844,"end":288.797,"text":"這個數字是值得特別是國防部長你要認真去看川普心目中的就是生意人嘛你抱著這麼多錢我要把你武器把你賺回來會不會全部的全部拿走這多少錢呢兩兆喔所以跟他的百分之十就很接近啦百分之十怎麼來的從這數字那裡的"},{"start":290.798,"end":305.844,"text":"這是我的這樣子解讀啦我告訴告訴你看你看安倍晉三怎麼形容川普他就是看數字不是我們政府一直一天到晚講哇同盟價值民主價值可以呢盡量講但是要做生意啦你看到這麼多錢我相信美國絕對不希望台海發生戰爭因為這不符合美國的利益"},{"start":320.145,"end":341.421,"text":"阿我們付到多錢怎麼會有戰爭呢那所以第二個接下來我們自我防衛能力的提升的需要的情況之下我們會跟美國購買何於何於能夠提升自我防衛能力的這樣的武器最後一點一個小點上一次我問的那個無人機有限無限請你給我們一個報告可以嗎部長"},{"start":343.882,"end":354.881,"text":"有限無限無人機打無人機無人機有的有限有的無限怎麼樣營業這裡上一次部長不在把資料給我資料給我謝謝賴世寶委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":587,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時45分）謝謝主席、各位先進。有請國防部顧部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你好。時間很少，希望你就簡答，我問很簡單的問題，你就簡單地回答。關於大家關心、這是大家關心的啦！就是路透社等國際媒體說臺灣要跟美國買將近五千億元的軍購。你在前面都有說明，我知道啦！那我就問你一個，F-35有沒有可能？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，所有可能在我國平時應對灰色地帶跟戰時拒止共軍犯臺的必要武器都會在我們的考量之內，至於具體上是那些武器、裝備，我們會循臺美交流機制跟美方進行溝通。"],["賴委員士葆：F-35幾乎不可能嘛！因為要同盟國才有，而且要出研發經費，我們也沒有出，基本上……我就不知道啦！怎麼會有國際媒體……"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們現在不會對個別裝備有任何評論。"],["賴委員士葆：這話當然是我們的官方放出來的嘛！一定是來自我們的高層，或者是你們國防部、或者是總統府那邊、國安會那邊放出來的消息啊！結果放出來以後，又讓人家覺得放得也太外行了。"],["顧部長立雄：我想……"],["賴委員士葆：等一下，因為我時間有限，我就問你，川普說臺灣要付保護費啊！到底要付多少他才會滿意啊？你能不能回答一下？他一定從軍購以及晶片下手，至於到底是多少，你心裡有沒有譜？"],["顧部長立雄：我之前都已經回答了，臺美之間的軍事交流其實非常綿密，而且已經是制度性的了、已經是制度化的軍事交流機制，我們如果要向美軍購任何武器、裝備，甚至訓練等等，都是循這個機制提出去的，所以事實上，我們雙方都要認同這個採購符合作戰的實際需要。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你喔！川普上臺以後，我們的國防經費是不是會每年提高？我就問你這個。"],["顧部長立雄：關於我們國防部的立場，我剛剛已經說明了，近三年都平均成長8%左右，所以我們預期、希望國防預算還是能夠穩健地成長。"],["賴委員士葆：就是穩健、每一年以8%成長？甚至8%以上？"],["顧部長立雄：我不敢說一定會成長多少，但是……"],["賴委員士葆：8%不夠啦！如果按照川普的講法，8%怎麼夠？起碼要20%以上啊！每年要成長20%。好，我現在也給你一些觀念、概念。川普是生意人，你同意吧？他是生意人出身。"],["顧部長立雄：但是美臺還是有共同利益。"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦！但他是生意人出身。請問你了解川普嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想，我不適宜在這裡作任何評論。"],["賴委員士葆：好，我引用一下，全世界公認很了解川普的一個人叫安倍晉三，人已經過去了。他講過川普重視數字，而不是價值。在臺灣，現在我們的政府強調什麼民主同盟，但在川普來講不重視啊！他要deal！也就是說要嘛就達成協議，否則拉倒。我講的這些話都是安倍晉三講的！那我就告訴你，川普一定會要求我們進一步買更多武器，問題只在於是不是我們要的。至於數字，我倒覺得，因為我們現在……請問你知道我們現在每一年賺美國多少錢嗎？你知道貿易順差嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：你是說……"],["賴委員士葆：臺灣跟美國的貿易順差你知道有多少嗎？以一年來說。"],["顧部長立雄：我現在手上沒有這個數字。"],["賴委員士葆：最少500億美金！也有人講600億元、有人講700億元，甚至2023年到800億元，這個數字是值得特別是國防部長，你要認真去看！在川普心目中的就是生意人嘛！你把我那麼多錢賺走，那我要以武器賺回來。會不會全部拿走？那就是多少錢？你知道嗎？2兆喔！所以跟他的10%稅率就很接近啦！10%怎麼來的？這個數字從哪裡來呢？這是我這樣解讀啦！我也告訴你，要看一看安倍晉三怎麼形容川普，他就是看數字，不是我們的政府一直亂講的同盟價值、民主價值，可以儘量講，但是「A deal is a deal.」，是做生意啦！你賺走我那麼多錢，我要把它領出來。"],["顧部長立雄：但是跟委員報告兩點，我相信美國絕對不希望臺海發生戰爭，因為這不符合美國的利益。"],["賴委員士葆：我們付那麼多錢，怎麼會有戰爭呢？"],["顧部長立雄：所以第二點是接下來在我們自我防衛能力提升的需要之下，我們會跟美國購買合於提升自我防衛能力需求的武器。"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦！最後一點，是一個小點。針對上一次我問的無人機，包含有線與無線，請你給我一份報告，可以嗎？部長？"],["主席：有線、無線。"],["賴委員士葆：無人機中有的有線、有的無線，要怎麼因應？上一次部長不在，那請把資料給我，好不好？"],["主席：時間關係，把資料給賴委員就好。"],["賴委員士葆：資料給我。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。現在無線的無人機很少啦！"],["賴委員士葆：有喔！烏克蘭有喔！"],["顧部長立雄：你講的是反裝甲彈。"],["主席：那是反裝甲彈啦！無人機若是無線的，飛不到300公尺。"],["賴委員士葆：有有線的跟無線的，也有可以飛10公里的。"],["主席：你說的是拖式2B吧！謝謝賴委員。","接下來進行詢答的是黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156791","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156791","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667849756f929098a2205158c0789247a306ce953f66f7e5060573a7b2597b81be3d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"11:39:51 - 11:45:01","影片長度":"00:05:10","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)。（僅詢答）\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：（僅詢答）\n      （一）作業基金：\n                   1、國軍生產及服務作業基金。\n                   2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金。\n                   3、國防醫學院軍事教育基金。\n     （二）資本計畫基金－國軍營舍及設施改建基金。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:39:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:45:01+08:00","duration":310,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.08159375,"end":1.2122187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.53284375,"end":2.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.396593750000001,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.34909375,"end":21.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.79971875,"end":26.254718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.32221875,"end":97.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.70346875,"end":110.81534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.70971875000001,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.31596875000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.32784375000001,"end":160.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.45659375,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.81846875000002,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.64721875,"end":165.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.41034375,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.13971875000001,"end":168.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.52659375000002,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.53784375,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.45721875,"end":237.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.13721875000002,"end":238.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.93034375000002,"end":244.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.14034375000003,"end":247.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.09346875000003,"end":290.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.00596875,"end":268.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.14221875000004,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.65221875000003,"end":309.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.04596875000004,"end":310.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.06284375,"end":309.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.61971875,"end":310.22721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":2.271,"text":"部長好部長作為國防部的部長我想請問一下您守護的國家叫什麼名字"},{"start":16.414,"end":35.424,"text":"中華民國是我是中華民國的立法委員我們都是中華民國派對於有其他委員個別所提案的事件我想到目前為止在野黨所了解都還在連署階段連署會不會通過都還不知道我想有許多的立法委員對於這一案"},{"start":36.144,"end":61.081,"text":"我們都表達高度的關切也內部都在討論我想我們立法委員全力守護的就是中華民國我是中華民國的立法委員我唱的是中華民國的國歌我拿的是中華民國的國旗我們都是中華民國派所以我們想接下來問許多有關於國軍如何守護我們中華民國最重要的幾個問題從上個會期我就一直在討論面對現在少子化"},{"start":61.741,"end":74.879,"text":"面對現在各行各業都缺工缺人才的一個狀況之下我們還看到了所謂的軍購案有國際媒體報導4800多億當然你有出面澄清我想跟美國購買軍備我們當然支持"},{"start":78.163,"end":93.929,"text":"但是買了武器誰要來操作就算新進的武器有人操作了跟原有的單位人要從哪裡去補上這是我們一直都很關鍵的一個問題到底我們的國軍現在的問題應該還是以人力的上人力上面的一個問題應該來做補足我想從6月6號"},{"start":97.771,"end":110.246,"text":"你剛上任沒有多久同樣在這個位置本席就有向部長談到國軍薪資結構過低的問題部長你說會去找主計人事單位聊一聊請問聊完以後狀況是什麼有沒有機會調整"},{"start":112.055,"end":131.69,"text":"我們現在就如剛協大委員所垂詢的我們已經在進行一個就是最後收容的階段的一個一個研議因為是因為國軍的這個家籍的這個部分相當的多那我們現在當然是集中要考量到說"},{"start":133.211,"end":159.7,"text":"一個志願役的這個加級要不要提高那提高到多少那另外就是說邊線比比較低的這部分的戰鬥部隊這個部分的加級要提高當然要全部去做一個總盤檢討然後還要有其他的很多人很多很多其他各類的加級的一個平衡性所以你有去做調查有在收攏這相關的資料了對有沒有可以先透露大概會提升多少薪資"},{"start":160.92,"end":184.179,"text":"我想還沒有定案之前我想應該是不因為我們好沒關係我有一個數據想跟部長來提供一下就我們去做一個片面的了解我們去收集這樣子相關情資台灣二等兵的薪資啊差日本二等兵兩千元一等兵差了四千元台灣的下市薪資呢差新加坡的下市八千元台灣市館長的薪資呢"},{"start":185.64,"end":207.578,"text":"差新加坡的士官長2.2萬元台灣少校的薪資比南韓的少校差了1.4萬元部長將軍級的軍官我們就不比了啦光比這些基層部隊的官士兵我們台灣現役軍人對比鄰近國家待遇偏低但台灣面對的戰爭風險比其他國家高當然你要回答我各個國家"},{"start":208.158,"end":236.738,"text":"生活水平待遇還有他們所謂的物價不同我都知道但是我要表達的就是現在現役軍人對於民間企業的薪資也偏低我們拿什麼誘因來留人總不能老是一個愛國心吧部長弟兄也要養家照顧弟兄的薪資待遇是我上個會期跟這個會期最重要的一個重點我會持續追蹤下去我想現場我們對於這些部分的訴求部長你可以給我一個意義嗎"},{"start":239.927,"end":264.517,"text":"我想就這個部分剛剛跟委員報告了就是說我們已經正在我事實上已經開過大概五成的會議我們現在正在最後是一個收容的階段我們最後會提出一個比較具體的一個方案因為確實在現在來看的話這個應該是中市以下的吧是不是應該都還不及這個國人的這個"},{"start":268.439,"end":288.212,"text":"緊張性性質的一個中位數所以就這個部分基層的官兵就這個部分的招募還有他的留營率這個部分也多少跟這個有關那我們當然要一方面提升國軍的地位當然這個部分的待遇的增加我想我們也要適度的來調整那所以你認同要調整對吧對我認同要調整好謝謝"},{"start":290.734,"end":290.814,"text":"謝謝羅廷偉委員、部長請"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":560,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時39分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["顧部長立雄：是，羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：部長好。部長，您作為國防部的部長，我想請問一下，您守護的國家叫什麼名字？"],["顧部長立雄：中華民國。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是。我是中華民國的立法委員，我們都是中華民國派。對於有其他委員個別提案的事件，到目前為止，據在野黨所了解還在連署階段，連署會不會通過都還不知道，許多立法委員對於這一案都表達高度關切，內部也都在討論。我想，我們立法委員全力守護的就是中華民國，我是中華民國的立法委員，我唱的是中華民國的國歌，我拿的是中華民國的國旗，我們都是中華民國派，所以接下來我想問許多關於國軍如何守護我們中華民國最重要的幾個問題。","從上個會期以來，我就一直在討論，面對現在少子化、現在各行各業都缺工、缺人才的狀況，我們還看到所謂的軍購案，根據國際媒體報導，有四千八百多億元，當然你有出面澄清。跟美國購買軍備，我們當然支持，但是買了武器誰要操作？就算新進武器有人操作了，原有單位的人要從哪裡補上？這一直是很關鍵的問題，到底現在國軍的問題是什麼？還是應該就人力上的問題補足。從6月6日你剛上任沒有多久，同樣在這個位子，本席就向部長談到國軍薪資結構過低的問題，部長說會去找主計、人事單位聊聊，請問聊完以後狀況是什麼？有沒有機會調整？"],["顧部長立雄：現在就如剛剛其他委員所垂詢的，我們已經在進行最後收攏階段的研議。因為國軍加給這個部分相當多，我們現在當然是要集中考量志願役的加給要不要提高，以及提高到多少。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以現在……"],["顧部長立雄：另外就是對編現比比較低的戰鬥部隊，這個部分的加給……"],["羅委員廷瑋：加給要多少？"],["顧部長立雄：要提高，還要考量提高多少。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然要全部通盤檢討嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：還要考量與很多其他各類加給的平衡性。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你有調查、在收攏這些相關資料了？"],["顧部長立雄：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：有沒有可以先透露大概會提升多少薪資？"],["顧部長立雄：我想，還沒有定案之前，應該是不宜，因為我們最近已經……"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，沒關係。我有一項數據想向部長提供。就我們所作的片面了解、我們蒐集的相關情資，臺灣二等兵的薪資差日本二等兵2,000元，一等兵差了4,000元；臺灣下士薪資差新加坡下士8,000元，臺灣士官長的薪資差新加坡士官長2.2萬元，臺灣少校的薪資比南韓少校差了1.4萬元。部長，將軍級軍官就不比了啦！光比這些基層部隊的官士兵，我們臺灣現役軍人對比鄰近國家待遇偏低，但臺灣面對的戰爭風險比其他國家高。當然你會回答我，各個國家的生活水平、待遇還有物價不同，我都知道，但我要表達的就是現役軍人現在的薪資相對民間企業也偏低！我們拿什麼誘因留人？總不能老是用愛國心吧？部長，弟兄也要養家，照顧弟兄的薪資、待遇是我上個會期跟這個會期最重要的重點，我會持續追蹤下去。對於這部分訴求，部長可以現場給我回應嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：就這部分，我剛剛跟委員報告了，我們事實上已經開過大概五、六次會，現在正在收攏階段，最後會提出一個比較具體的方案。確實，以現在來看的話，中士以下的薪資應該都還不及國人的經常性薪資中位數，基層官兵這部分的招募還有留營率也多少跟這個有關，我們一方面當然要提升國軍的地位，在待遇增加這個部分，我想也要適度地調整。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以你認同要調整，對吧？"],["顧部長立雄：對，我認同要調整。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。我想，我們都是為中華民國努力，國軍的待遇、增加人力、增加人力編現比是我們非常重視的。現場所有委員、包括在野黨委員也都愛國，不需要拿個別委員的狀況抹紅所有在野黨委員，我們一起努力守護我們的國家：中華民國。謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員，部長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":56,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-35-12","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","馬文君","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","洪申翰","羅廷瑋","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管收支公開及機密部分（不含國家安全局部分)\n（僅詢答）；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於國防部主管非營業基金：\n（僅詢答）(一)作業基金：1、國軍生產及服務作業基金、2、國軍老舊眷村改建基金、3、國防\n醫學院軍事教育基金；(二)資本計畫基金─國軍營舍及設施改建基金","agenda_id":"1139702_00001"}}},{"id":"156790","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156790","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678f97e5f88604cd999370fa4497fc607c0ce953f66f7e506050ed430b54b12589a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:38:15 - 11:43:12","影片長度":"00:04:57","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:38:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:43:12+08:00","duration":297,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.11471875,"end":4.469093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.469093750000001,"end":4.6715937499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.414093750000001,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.52284375,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.04596875,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.51846875,"end":12.585968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.585968750000003,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.704093750000002,"end":12.855968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.27721875,"end":20.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.05721875,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.48596875,"end":35.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.86534375,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.16034375,"end":38.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.978468750000005,"end":38.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.079718750000005,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.13034375,"end":39.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.21471875,"end":48.377843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.20909375,"end":56.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.01346875,"end":58.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.549093750000004,"end":61.641593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.641593750000006,"end":76.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.27409375,"end":64.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.38284375,"end":73.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.50034375,"end":74.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.96409375,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.44909375,"end":78.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.53346875000001,"end":83.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.35534375,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.16096875000001,"end":91.40909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.40909375000001,"end":91.61159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.61159375000001,"end":96.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.55596875,"end":128.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.37721875000001,"end":106.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.65971875000001,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.03096875,"end":108.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.85784375,"end":108.87471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.33034375000001,"end":109.71846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.97284375,"end":131.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.75721875000002,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.79096875000002,"end":133.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.59659375,"end":133.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.64721875,"end":133.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.69784375,"end":133.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.78221875,"end":133.88346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.88346875000002,"end":139.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.76096875000002,"end":143.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.33346875,"end":147.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.05846875,"end":162.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.71221875,"end":149.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.14596875,"end":155.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.74409375000002,"end":162.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.52034375000002,"end":162.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.55409375000002,"end":162.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.57096875000002,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.72284375,"end":162.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.77346875,"end":163.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.11096875,"end":163.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.14471875,"end":164.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.21221875,"end":168.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.63784375,"end":169.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.52346875,"end":195.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.79784375,"end":221.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.69971875000002,"end":203.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.20596875,"end":203.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.84721875000002,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.63159375,"end":206.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.64846875,"end":207.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.79596875000001,"end":208.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.97534375,"end":231.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.05096875,"end":223.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.96221875,"end":226.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.69096875000002,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.32346875000002,"end":240.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.74909375000001,"end":249.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.70221875000001,"end":240.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.16596875000002,"end":243.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.76846875,"end":248.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.03846875000002,"end":252.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.92409375000003,"end":252.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.56534375,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.59909375,"end":265.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.78471875000002,"end":255.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.39471875000004,"end":264.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.59284375000004,"end":266.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.16659375,"end":288.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.39534375,"end":297.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.46596875,"end":296.52471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.053,"end":12.295,"text":"運動部組織法草案案 案 三 分鐘。謝謝主席,對,因為我只有三分鐘,所以我趕快就幾個問題請教部長跟署長。好,請部長跟署長。委員好。謝謝。這個時間很短,請教一下。就是說我們都熱切運動部來成立,那我先問就是說運動部未來成立之後,運動部跟體育部之間的分工大概是怎麼樣去做分類?"},{"start":32.267,"end":55.761,"text":"運動部組織法草案．一）分工,基本上學校裡邊的所有的教學是教育部負責。學校以外的所有的場館,所有的專業選訓或者比賽,國際的運動賽,這全部都是由運動部來負責。學校裡面的場館,學校裡面學手的,比如說運動班學生的培訓是誰在負責的?"},{"start":58.035,"end":58.315,"text":"暨運動部組織法草案 案。"},{"start":84.877,"end":105.67,"text":"體育班競技的教育嗎?跟委員報告目前簡單來講就是說馬照跑舞照跳這一個部分我們在分工上是合作的也就是說原來的體育署對學校的教育這一塊的一個不管場館或者運動選手或者一些國際競技上的一個補助本來就在體育署"},{"start":106.01,"end":106.91,"text":"發展部組織法草案案案案。"},{"start":129.639,"end":129.939,"text":"運動部組織法草案案"},{"start":148.123,"end":149.103,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":173.729,"end":177.53,"text":"運動部組織法草案案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案案件事宜,其中一人擬具:「體育暨運動"},{"start":195.854,"end":222.286,"text":"除了我們包委員除了我們有一個專責的體育團特定體育團體的一個輔導的機制跟組別之外我們那未來是誰來負責單項協會運動部的部分是還是有運動部來負責運動部的哪一個單位下面會有競技運動是這邊來負責但是呢就是說未來我們是不想過去不想過度的介入他的那個協會的自治但是呢未來我們針對我們我們補助的經費的部分我會比較強力的去做監督但是過去也都有補助啊"},{"start":223.126,"end":223.506,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案。"},{"start":243.442,"end":243.462,"text":"體育暨運動"},{"start":262.307,"end":267.669,"text":"發展部組織法草案案件事宜,我們現在是直接要求的。」我是認為評比啦對於各個單項協會的評比還有這個補助你們真的在深層層運動部之後真的就像你講的態度要轉變但是這一個如何讓他能夠有一個SOP出來然後去強力做執行我相信啦"},{"start":281.095,"end":283.498,"text":"運動部組織法草案案案件事宜和單項組織法草案案件事宜和單項組織法草案案件事宜和單項組織法草案案件事"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":774,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時38分）謝謝主席，因為我只有3分鐘，所以我趕快就幾個問題請教部長跟署長。"],["主席：請部長跟署長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝。時間很短，請教一下，我們都樂見運動部的成立，我要先問的是，運動部未來成立之後，運動部跟體育部之間的分工大概是怎麼樣去做分類？"],["鄭部長英耀：運動部跟教育部的一個分工？"],["李委員坤城：對。"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上，學校裡面所有的教學是教育部負責；學校以外所有的場館、所有的專業，包括選訓、比賽、國際的運動賽事，全部都是由運動部來負責。"],["李委員坤城：學校裡面的場館，學校裡面比如說運動班學生的培訓是誰在負責的？"],["鄭部長英耀：由運動部來做。"],["李委員坤城：我看次長也很熟……"],["鄭部長英耀：就是專業訓練這個部分，甚至學校裡面有一些屬於特定項目的發展，那個場館也是會由運動部來支持，但是屬於一般體育教學的活動是歸教育部。"],["李委員坤城：所以在學校裡面也是有分一般的、普通的教育，然後還有體育班競技的教育嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，目前簡單來講，就是馬照跑、舞照跳，這一個部分，我們在分工上是合作的，也就是說，原來的體育署對學校教育這一塊，不管場館或者運動選手，或者一些國際競技上的補助，本來就在體育署……"],["李委員坤城：未來一樣是由運動部來做就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：然後學校的部分，就是國教署，但因應新的運動部成立，我們國教署這邊也會成立一個學校的體育教學組，把兩個部會所有的分工、合作，能夠加以落實。"],["李委員坤城：跟升格沒什麼兩樣啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：當然不一樣。"],["李委員坤城：聽起來都是一樣，只是過去是體育署，未來變成運動部在做處理。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們運動部當然不是只有體育人才三級教育上的一個合作而已。"],["李委員坤城：所以未來學校的體育班還是會有就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們會看整個的狀況，因為當全民運動一多的時候，當競技運動人才多的時候，我們會看狀況，因為確實在整個人口少子化裡面，我們也在觀察……"],["李委員坤城：所以未來就這部分，你說學校體育班未來還是由運動部來做處理就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前體育班還是會繼續存在。"],["李委員坤城：就是由運動部來做處理就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["李委員坤城：第二個，單項協會跟體育部的關係。我請署長來答一下好了，因為過去我們對單項協會都有補助，但是大家認為，你們有補助，但是你對於他們的協調力稍微差了一點，未來升格運動部之後，你們跟單項協會之間的關係是如何？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，除了我們有一個專責的特定體育團體的輔導機制跟組別之外，我們……"],["李委員坤城：未來是誰來負責單項協會？"],["鄭署長世忠：是由運動部來負責。"],["李委員坤城：運動部的哪一個單位？"],["鄭署長世忠：會由競技運動司來負責。再來，過去我們不想過度介入協會的自治，但是未來針對我們補助經費的部分，我們會比較強力地去做監督。"],["李委員坤城：過去也都有補助啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：是，但這個是我們觀念、做法上的不同。"],["李委員坤城：升格之後會有什麼樣的一個權力，讓你能夠做強力的監督？"],["鄭署長世忠：這個部分主要是我們態度的一個轉變。"],["李委員坤城：所以跟有沒有升格是沒有關係的，而是態度的轉變，即變成運動部之後講話可以比較大聲，是不是這樣？"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，因為我們過去只有一個組的人力，其實我們面對72個特定體育團體以及2,000個體育團體，我們在人力上真的是不足的。"],["李委員坤城：署長，如果按照你這樣講，是態度的轉變，所以現在也可以做啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：我們現在已經在做了……"],["李委員坤城：不是升格成運動部才能做啊！"],["鄭署長世忠：對，現在很多協會的補助，我們就是直接要求，比方說選手參加國家隊，他必須要有的後勤等等的基本配備；他擁有的權益等等，我們現在是直接來要求它。"],["李委員坤城：我是認為關於各個單項協會的評比還有補助，你們在升格成運動部之後，真的就像你講的，態度要轉變，但是如何有一個SOP出來，然後強力去做執行，我相信升格之後，大家對於運動部跟單項協會之間的監督關係，會更強力地做出要求。"],["鄭署長世忠：報告委員，我們也是把蘿蔔跟棒子分開來，一個是綜規組去做監督，其他的輔導則是由競技運動司這邊來做，所以這是分開的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李委員，謝謝署長，謝謝部長。接下來請傅委員崐萁發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156789","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156789","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f6678309506c888fe89029fc666e425fd8fe7ce953f66f7e5060576d6fe535e5dfa9f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"11:35:12 - 11:42:07","影片長度":"00:06:55","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:35:12+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:42:07+08:00","duration":415,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.19971875,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.1234687500000002,"end":2.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.687843750000003,"end":12.180968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.36971875,"end":19.656593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.42034375,"end":19.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.977218750000002,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.48346875,"end":75.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.16659375,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.67659375000001,"end":89.70471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.06034375,"end":82.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.14471875000001,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.97471875000001,"end":99.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.52659375,"end":107.82846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.91284375000001,"end":107.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.92971875,"end":109.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.97159375000001,"end":128.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.05721875,"end":133.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.74846875,"end":140.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.38096875000002,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.24096875,"end":145.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.27471875,"end":142.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.23221875000002,"end":145.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.03346875,"end":146.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.32034375,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.37096875,"end":146.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.02909375000002,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.67846875,"end":151.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.36596875,"end":155.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.43284375000002,"end":170.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.85659375,"end":184.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.96409375000002,"end":185.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.65596875,"end":197.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.60346875000002,"end":199.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.86471875,"end":202.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.21034375000002,"end":203.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.03284375,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.92596875,"end":265.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.48721875,"end":270.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.26284375,"end":296.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.40659375,"end":342.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.18659375000004,"end":300.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.03659375,"end":342.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.03221875,"end":349.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.44471875000005,"end":363.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.06284375,"end":364.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.75034375,"end":374.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.52221875000004,"end":366.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.60659375,"end":366.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.74159375000005,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.79096875000005,"end":388.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.59909375,"end":396.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.97409375,"end":391.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.37471875,"end":392.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.32346875,"end":398.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.35284375000003,"end":410.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.86971875,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.67534375,"end":412.89471875000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.68,"end":1.061,"text":"請謝依奉委員質詢。"},{"start":20.02,"end":40.632,"text":"部長,我想要請問你喔,其實我們最近看到日本的福岡、熊本他們的牧場發現了這個牛結的症那這個部分其實過去在2020年7月的時候金門也有爆發相關的這樣子的疫情"},{"start":41.352,"end":42.853,"text":"規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":59.524,"end":75.652,"text":"這個範圍內所以為什麼2020年金門的牛節診的疫情跟現在對於日本的牛節診的疫情就是我們農業部的處理是不一致的為什麼"},{"start":77.219,"end":106.54,"text":"我跟委員說明就是相關的牛節枕他是一個一級的傳染病所以當他發病的時候第一個跟生物有關的因為他的沒有經過一些比較深度的這些加熱處理的部分所以我們會先禁止然後看他的來源牧場一段時間是沒有發生的那我們當初對於金門的牛節枕的時候是不是不只是鮮乳甚至整隻牛的牛肉都禁止"},{"start":107,"end":111.823,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":133.815,"end":144.588,"text":"是不是因為國際貿易法的相關規範?所以你才沒有辦法禁止那個日本的就是牛肉進口?是不是?是不是這樣子?我請那個房間主署長跟您說一下。"},{"start":149.724,"end":170.061,"text":"是報告委員因為國際的話他在肉的部分他是排除的他是有經過檢查以後排除所以對肉的話國際上並沒有針對牛節節乙發生去做控管那乳的部分因為在當初的檢疫條件有宣告日本要發出來說他的廠"},{"start":171.102,"end":186.457,"text":"這段時間內沒有發生有節約診事實上與現在的狀況不符那這部分我們已經跟日本有談好了那很快的這個部分已經處理好我們重新議定了他的檢疫的證明文件那現在他其實"},{"start":187.557,"end":211.812,"text":"部分條文修正草案案 已經處理掉了。那金門的話是因為牛結症診發生。那我們發現他不單只是牛結症沒有施打疫苗。那其他的口蹄的部分也是有沒有施打疫苗的疑慮。所以這部分我們會後續因為已經穩定了以後會後續開專家會議來評估這個狀態。然後來評估他是不是可以適度的開放。"},{"start":213.292,"end":216.973,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條"},{"start":243.438,"end":265.188,"text":"國際貿易組織為了要讓我們台灣的農業變成競技型現在根本就不需要打國際盃啊現在就利用這個事件搶購我們國內的就是奶茶的農頭啊是不是我們就直接殺進去我們那個相關的茶飲的市場裡面啊是不是"},{"start":266.513,"end":285.511,"text":"跟委員報告其實剛好這是一個機會就是現在很多那個泡沫紅茶店他是用那個冰磚冰磚爐的部分那現在剛好日本這段時間沒辦法進來的時候其實剛好讓我們有機會把我們的國產爐推介到我們的這些泡沫紅茶店還有奶茶店的部分"},{"start":285.891,"end":286.632,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容．及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":301.104,"end":313.853,"text":"甚至我認為我們跟日本還有台灣的稻米稻穀就是那個我們的那個稻草啊過去我們彰化有非常多的稻草希望可以輸到日本日本他們有榻榻米他們的產業嘛可是因為防疫的問題"},{"start":317.415,"end":342.284,"text":"都沒有辦法銷到日本去趁著這一次跟日本在談防疫的時候你們是不是可以順便把這些問題相關的解決這如果台灣的稻草可以銷往日本的話那這樣子對於我們稻農也會增加收入甚至會減少我們目前要處理稻草的相關的問題呀是不是"},{"start":343.103,"end":343.884,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":364.878,"end":367.62,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":387.637,"end":399.685,"text":"其實手搖飲去標示國產牛乳也是我們農業部一直在建議的啦那也感謝食藥署現在開始要去處理那我們會趁這個機會去跟手搖飲業者來討論我們召集他們相關的會議怎麼樣去使用國產的鮮乳然後有什麼樣的獎勵的措施我們現在正在研擬跟他的規劃好你請他們敬書座好不好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":738,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時35分）謝謝召委，我想要請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長，我想請問你，我們最近看到日本福岡、熊本的牧場發現了牛結節疹，關於這個部分，其實在過去2020年7月的時候，金門也爆發這樣的疫情，那時候整隻牛都是被禁止輸入臺灣的，但是這次對於日本所發生的疫情，我們只限制鮮乳進口，而且是低溫鮮乳，保久乳還不在這個範圍內。為什麼2020年對於金門的牛結節疹疫情跟現在對於日本的牛結節疹疫情，農業部的處理是不一致的？為什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，牛結節疹是一級傳染病，當牠發病的時候，第一個影響的是跟生乳有關的產品，因為它沒有經過比較深度的加熱處理，所以我們會先禁止，然後看看來源牧場是否一段時間沒有發生。至於牛肉部分……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那當初對於金門呢？當初金門發生牛結節疹疫情的時候，是不是不只鮮乳，甚至整隻牛的牛肉都禁止進入臺灣？對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：金門過去有口蹄疫的問題，所以我們對金門的處理方式跟對日本的方式其實是不大一樣的。金門是零星發生，我們在短時間內讓它不要進來，先確認每一個牧場有沒有牛結節疹，可能在一、兩個星期以後馬上解除了。至於國與國之間必須符合國際規範……"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是因為國際貿易法的相關規範，所以才沒有辦法禁止日本牛肉進口？"],["陳部長駿季：對，是根據國際相關規範。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是這樣？"],["陳部長駿季：是根據國際規範。我請防檢署署長跟您說明一下。"],["謝委員衣鳯：請說。"],["邱署長垂章：報告委員，國際的話，針對肉的部分是排除的，是經過檢查以後排除，所以就肉的部分，國際上並沒有針對牛結節疹發生去做控管。在乳的部分，因為當初的檢疫條件中有宣告日本場必須在這段時間內沒有發生牛結節疹，事實上與現在的狀況不符，所以這部分我們已經跟日本談好了，已經很快地處理好，重新議定了檢疫證明文件，現在乳的部分其實就可以輸進來，沒有問題了，已經處理掉了。金門的話，是因為牛結節疹疫情發生時，我們發現他們不單只是針對牛結節疹沒有施打疫苗，在口蹄疫等其他部分也有未施打疫苗的疑慮。由於情況已經穩定，我們後續會開專家會議評估狀態，並評估是否可以適度開放。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這一次國內食品供料龍頭說四葉特選鮮乳、也就是日本牛乳已經被禁止進口，同樣在這個情況下，十盛奶茶也全面停止使用日本的鮮乳，改用國產的統一鮮乳，以及要選用小農牛乳。其實我們彰化也有啊！彰化也有鮮乳坊，農業部不是說為了加入國際貿易組織、為了讓臺灣農業晉級，現在根本就不需要打國際盃，就利用這次事件搶攻國內奶茶龍頭啊！是不是？就直接殺進茶飲等相關市場啊！是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，其實這是一個機會。現在很多泡沫紅茶店是用冰磚乳，而日本乳品這段時間沒辦法進來，其實剛好讓我們有機會把國產乳推介到這些泡沫紅茶店、奶茶店，這樣的話，相對地，國人在飲用的時候，它的風味如果不一樣，慢慢地，我們也在引導這些奶茶店、飲料店能夠改用我們的國產鮮乳。"],["謝委員衣鳯：怎麼樣在這個機會把我們的國產鮮乳推廣？你們有什麼作為？甚至我認為我們臺灣的稻米、稻穀和稻草，也可以輸出到日本，過去我們彰化有非常多的稻草，希望可以輸到日本，日本有榻榻米，那是他們的產業，可是因為防疫的問題，臺灣的稻草都沒有辦法銷到日本去，趁著這一次跟日本談防疫的時候，你們是不是可以順便把這些相關問題解決？如果臺灣的稻草可以銷往日本的話，這樣子我們的稻農也會增加收入，甚至會減少我們目前要處理的稻草相關問題，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：針對稻草的部分，對於檢疫的條件，我們一直積極地跟日方在處理，有一個時間點的機會，就是我們的傳統豬瘟如果被確認，以後相關的檢疫條件就可以放寬，因為我們國內禽畜場還有一些豬瘟的一個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以稻草的輸出是跟豬瘟有關就對了？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，有連動性，那時候日方一直用這個條件，以後如果我們變成豬瘟非疫國的時候，相對地，針對稻草的部分，我們會更積極地跟日本再談。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有，食藥署114年才要試辦手搖飲標示乳製品產地的種類，要不要趁這個時候，農業部建議食藥署趕快去推動，不用等到114年？"],["陳部長駿季：其實手搖飲標示國產牛乳也是我們農業部一直在建議的，也感謝食藥署現在開始要去處理，我們會趁這個機會……"],["謝委員衣鳯：他們是明年，是不是現在就去做？"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是我們會趁這個機會跟手搖飲業者討論，召集他們來開相關的會議，討論怎麼樣去使用國產的鮮乳，然後有什麼樣的獎勵措施，我們現在正在研擬跟規劃。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，你請他們儘速做，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：好。"],["主席：請陳超明委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}},{"id":"156786","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156786","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f667846903f60fca80237370fa4497fc607c0ce953f66f7e50605b8cb1959c7f2e8ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"11:30:21 - 11:38:07","影片長度":"00:07:46","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（五）委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（六）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案。\n（七）委員徐富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（八）委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（九）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n（十）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（七）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（三）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n（四）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案。\n【第（一）、（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）至（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n六、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員陳菁徽等18人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（一）、（五）、（六）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:30:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:38:07+08:00","duration":466,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[36,22],"id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.599093750000002,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.915343750000002,"end":11.708468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.51846875,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.20909375,"end":22.187843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.21721875,"end":24.094718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.309093750000002,"end":53.119718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.42721875,"end":30.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.845343750000005,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.63909375,"end":105.95534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.22534375000001,"end":107.20409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.32221875,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.22221875,"end":169.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.30409375000002,"end":183.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.87971875000002,"end":197.92409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.29534375,"end":220.24971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.17409375000003,"end":219.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.50721875000002,"end":239.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.05846875,"end":230.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.69909375,"end":234.32346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.05721875,"end":237.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.57596875000002,"end":247.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.40284375000002,"end":239.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.16596875000002,"end":243.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.68846875000003,"end":254.43846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.95346875,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.55659375000002,"end":255.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.92346875,"end":269.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.20409375,"end":269.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.32221875,"end":274.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.97596875,"end":271.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.80659375,"end":276.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.10159375,"end":278.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.34596875,"end":280.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.54409375,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.59471875,"end":281.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.26534375,"end":282.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.26096875,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.21846875,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.66471875,"end":291.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.12221875,"end":307.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.17284375,"end":349.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.20096875,"end":316.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.16659375,"end":320.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.92909375,"end":329.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.96096875,"end":341.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.34471875,"end":341.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.14159375,"end":358.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.81096875000003,"end":356.22846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.98346875000004,"end":358.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.84409375,"end":358.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.92846875000004,"end":359.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.23221875,"end":359.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.68784375,"end":359.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.73846875000004,"end":365.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.75909375000003,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.53471875,"end":368.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.87596875,"end":374.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.57159375000003,"end":375.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.17034375000003,"end":377.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.17346875000004,"end":389.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.20221875000004,"end":389.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.52284375000005,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.61471875,"end":395.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.79846875000004,"end":408.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.96159375,"end":417.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.18846875,"end":423.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.75034375,"end":446.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.96534375000005,"end":454.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.55096875000004,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.93034375,"end":455.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.46159375,"end":458.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.29659375000006,"end":461.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.19909375000003,"end":463.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.88659375000003,"end":465.29159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.642,"end":22.011,"text":"主席,那個部長你休息一下好了,我看你很辛苦,所以我們請那個張廖次長,鄭署長,你們兩個年輕力壯,所以多站一點沒關係喔。"},{"start":30.504,"end":52.393,"text":"因為部長也非常支持第三人生大學我在外面聽到幾個大學校長都說部長施理夏跟他們講很支持我跟他講說他也跟我講說他很支持他們說他跟你講的不算數那在立法院講的東西都不算數"},{"start":53.914,"end":70.29,"text":"但是他們私底下講的就是表示這個部長是真心的支持來推動這絕對是好事包括今天剛剛也是我跟那個中召委我要講他不讓我講說他有很重要的活動"},{"start":71.451,"end":71.851,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案"},{"start":93.319,"end":103.378,"text":"實際包括行政立法我們其實包括在這裡質詢包括其實也做很多溝通都是希望幫助行政部門一起做好事"},{"start":104.69,"end":131.111,"text":"OK好所以呢本席呢這個在這一次今年我們有很好的戰績參加奧運所以我也到左營一起去加油一起去加油他們的要出發的時候然後在這一個領養配的時候因為我也是領口人所以在這裡辦了一個加油當天的加油讓我深深的感受到哇這真的是一個全民運動"},{"start":132.012,"end":151.778,"text":"我那一天借了省武大學的體育館然後辦了一個那個這個因為李洋是林口子弟所以我在那邊辦了一個來的一千多人提供啤酒一起為了歡呼所以這個是凌拒凌拒這個全民共識非常好的一件事情"},{"start":153.534,"end":168.085,"text":"這一次我也提出了體育部的修法的版本重點在於競技運動要全民化因為全民化我們可以領選到更多更優秀的選手"},{"start":169.426,"end":182.403,"text":"但是要支撐這一個要有一個很好的生態所以要有全民運動來支撐這麼大的一個產業這麼多的選手需要靠整個社會的重視來支撐"},{"start":185.389,"end":207.63,"text":"現在特別是我也一直在提高齡化社會的來臨我們的平均的愚民不斷的在增加但是我們的不健康愚民也一直在增加重要的運動就是很重要的解方所以這一點其實也不要說這個都是一定是衛福部的事情"},{"start":209.338,"end":236.696,"text":"老人健康一定是維護部的事情為什麼接下來體育部應該要把這個也納入在這個政策思考市長我想全民運動就是說這次成立一個全新的運動部其實很重要的一個核心概念就是希望過去的我們比較重視競技運動沒有錯但是希望從競技運動裡面慢慢的全民化全民運動全民運動的很重要的目標就是促進國民健康"},{"start":237.136,"end":238.657,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":256.047,"end":278.06,"text":"但是其實我們現在運動風氣是不錯但是可以看一般的運動現況調查一般民眾平常在做的這些運動的前五名走路是第一個站到一半以上再來就是慢跑然後爬山"},{"start":279.44,"end":305.292,"text":"自行車在家健身這前五個那這前五個當然也是運動不過可以看得出來都沒有政府的角色也就叫做自求多福啦自求多福啦運動你那個政府過去就只關心選手嘛這些全民運動自求多福那對於這樣子的一個那個市長你那個"},{"start":307.553,"end":328.521,"text":"對我想剛才部長也有講就是說其實我們希望那個全民運動運動經濟全民化很重要一個核心概念就是希望我們的運動環境能夠改善過去只有俱樂部只有一個區的運動中心是不夠的所以現在讓學校的一些運動環境能改善其實委員所提的這五項我也幾乎都是除了自行車以外我幾乎也是用在運動"},{"start":329.841,"end":330.762,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案．一）三）運動發展部組織法草案。"},{"start":354.614,"end":355.434,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案 案。"},{"start":384.229,"end":384.769,"text":"運動發展部組織法草案案案。"},{"start":409.919,"end":426.079,"text":"創世代運動非常好的機會還有幾個月的時間是不是可以請體育署加把勁我跟署長溝通了很多次但是不曉得就半途而廢後來我不曉得你們怎麼進行了所以OK我最後一句話"},{"start":427.32,"end":449.358,"text":"這句話就是可不可以體育署重視壯世代的運動特別利用世壯運把帶動的全民運動既然也算是給體育署的一個賀禮嘛開始的鋪展出去不要只把當作是雙北的事情中央都不管可不可以沒有錯他不但是他就是世壯運我相信會帶來台灣壯年運動的"},{"start":452.6,"end":453.121,"text":"貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":739,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（11時30分）主席好。部長，你休息一下好了，我看你很辛苦，所以我們請張廖次長。"],["主席：有請張廖次長。"],["吳委員春城：還有鄭署長。"],["主席：以及鄭署長。"],["吳委員春城：你們兩個年輕力壯，所以多站一點沒關係。"],["張廖次長萬堅：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：因為部長也非常地支持第三人生大學，我在外面聽到幾個大學校長都說部長私底下跟他們講很支持，部長也跟我講說他很支持，但他們說部長跟我講的不算數啦！在立法院講的東西都不算數，但是他們私底下講就表示部長是真心支持來推動，這絕對是好事。包括剛剛也是，我要講但鍾召委不讓我講，說他有很重要的活動，所以不讓我講，我也是有活動所以我才急著要講，結果我們去的是同一個活動，叫做「世界良善日」，所以我覺得推動良善，像最近立法院的氣氛有比較好一點，因為我們總預算開始審查了，我覺得這是一個好的開始啦！其實包括行政、立法，包括我們在這裡質詢，其實也做了很多溝通，都是希望幫助行政部門一起做好事。","今年我們參加奧運有很好的戰績，我也有到左營一起去加油，在他們要出發的時候。在麟洋配的時候，因為我也是林口人，所以辦了一個當天的加油，讓我深深地感受到哇！這真的是一個全民運動。我那一天借了醒吾大學的體育館，然後辦了一個公開直播，因為李洋是林口子弟，所以我在那邊辦，來了一千多人哦！提供啤酒，哇！一起為了他們歡呼，所以這個是凝聚全民共識非常好的一件事情。這一次我也提出了體育部的修法版本，重點在於競技運動要全民化，因為全民化我們可以遴選到更多、更優秀的選手，但是支撐這個要有一個很好的生態，所以要有全民運動，來支撐這麼大的一個產業，這麼多的選手需要靠整個社會的重視來支撐。","特別是我也一直提到高齡化社會的來臨，我們的平均餘命不斷的在增加，但是我們的不健康餘命也一直在增加，運動就是很重要的解方，所以關於這一點，其實也不要說這一定是衛福部的事情，即老人、健康一定是衛福部的事情，為什麼呢？其實接下來體育部應該要把這個也納入政策思考當中，次長，是不是？"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，關於全民運動，這一次成立一個全新的運動部，其實一個很重要的核心概念，就是過去我們比較重視競技運動，但是希望從競技運動裡面，慢慢的走向全民化、全民運動，全民運動一個很重要的目標，就是促進國民健康，這是最重要的任務。"],["吳委員春城：所以體育部要能夠有這樣一個體悟，體悟到我們整個不要變成東亞病夫還是什麼的，而是應該要強身健國。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有問題。"],["吳委員春城：OK，其實我們現在運動風氣是不錯，但是據一般運動現況調查，一般民眾平常在做的運動的前五名，走路是第一個，占了一半以上；再來就是慢跑、爬山、騎自行車、在家健身，這前五項當然也是運動，不過可以看得出來，當中都沒有政府的角色，這也就是叫做自求多福，因為運動的部分，過去政府就只關心選手，所以這些全民運動就要自求多福，對於這樣一個情況，次長有何看法？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想剛才部長也有講到，其實全民運動、運動經濟全民化一個很重要的核心概念，就是希望我們的運動環境能夠改善，過去只有俱樂部、只有一個區的運動中心是不夠的，所以現在讓學校的一些運動環境能夠改善，而委員所提的這五項，除了自行車以外，我幾乎也是這樣在運動。"],["吳委員春城：你也是要靠自己！"],["張廖次長萬堅：對，如果將來學校的運動環境，在底下有國小、有國中、有高中，將來透過運動部成立之後的產業法人，能夠協助他們成立各個大大小小的俱樂部，我相信運動的型態跟多元這樣的目標就會促成。"],["吳委員春城：所以運動是一個好東西、好生意、好政策，因為它會成為一個生態循環。"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯。"],["吳委員春城：它也可以發展出一個很大的產業，增加很多的機會。"],["張廖次長萬堅：如果運動產業發展了，運動選手以後可以有一個正循環，就不會只有運動教練可以做。"],["吳委員春城：對，就是一個循環，選手花了一輩子的努力，得到奧運獎牌，回來能做什麼？他沒有發展性……"],["張廖次長萬堅：就只有教練、老師而已，所以如果運動產業能發展的話，他在運動產業可以有更好的表現。"],["吳委員春城：對，重要的就是要有全民對運動的一個基礎，企業才會來贊助嘛！OK！","我這裡也提到了，其實這裡有一個很大的運動市場就叫做壯世代，壯世代掌握三分之二的財富，而且很需要運動，包括很多的選手要聘教練或是什麼的，所以對於壯世代這一塊的市場，包括明年的世壯運，其實就是一個推動壯世代運動非常好的機會，還有幾個月時間，是不是可以請體育署加把勁，我已跟署長溝通了很多次，但是不曉得怎麼就半途而廢了，後來我也不曉得你們是怎麼進行的。","最後一句話，是不是可以請體育署重視壯世代的運動，特別利用世壯運帶動全民運動，這也算是給體育署的一個賀禮，開始就這樣鋪展出去，不要只是把它當作是雙北的事情，中央都不管，可不可以呢？"],["張廖次長萬堅：沒有錯，我相信世壯運會帶來臺灣壯年運動的潮流。"],["吳委員春城：目前還看不出來，因為就還只是當作國外觀光旅遊的賽事……"],["張廖次長萬堅：我想署長不會啦。"],["吳委員春城：是不是可以請署長好好規劃一下？"],["張廖次長萬堅：我們有在協調……"],["主席：請會後再跟我們吳委員說明。"],["吳委員春城：OK，謝謝。"],["張廖次長萬堅：好的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員，謝謝張廖次長，謝謝鄭署長。接下來有請李委員坤城發言，時間3分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":474,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-36,22-1","speakers":["鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","吳春城","黃國昌","沈發惠","萬美玲","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","羅智強","陳培瑜","張雅琳","李坤城","傅崐萁","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳宗憲","王正旭","謝龍介"],"page_start":247,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部組織法草案」案、(二)委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動\n發展部組織法草案」案、(三)委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(四)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(五)委員鍾佳濱等16人擬具「運動部\n組織法草案」案、(六)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部組織法草案」案、(七)委員徐\n富癸等17人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(八)委員范雲等16人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、\n(九)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具「運動部組織法草案」案、(十)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部組織\n法草案」案；二、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(二)委員\n羅廷瑋等16人擬具「體育暨運動發展部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(三)委員吳沛憶等21人擬具\n「運動部全民運動署組織法草案」案、(四)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「運動部全民運動署組織法草\n案」案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、(二)委\n員吳沛憶等21 人擬具「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案、( 三) 委員林宜瑾等19 人擬具\n「國家運動產業發展中心設置條例草案」案；四、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動訓練\n中心設置條例修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員吳沛憶等20 人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草\n案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家運動訓練中心設置條例修正草案」案；五、併案審查\n(一)行政院函請審議「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等21\n人擬具「國家運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「國家\n運動科學中心設置條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「教育部組織\n法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二\n條條文修正草案」案、( 三) 委員陳菁徽等18 人擬具「教育部組織法第二條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委\n員吳沛憶等21人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員林宜\n瑾等19人擬具「教育部組織法第二條、第五條及第九條條文修正草案」","agenda_id":"1139801_00011"}}},{"id":"156784","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156784","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66784868d398cf83bdaa9fc666e425fd8fe7ce953f66f7e506052648cbe450dbf9495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:26:17 - 11:35:07","影片長度":"00:08:50","會議時間":"2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n(一)\t本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員張智倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)\t本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)\t本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。(詢答)\n           (第十一及第十二案如經復議，則不予審查)）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-11-13","start_time":"2024-11-13T11:26:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-11-13T11:35:07+08:00","duration":530,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-12"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":2.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.73096875,"end":2.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.505968750000001,"end":14.121593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.340968750000002,"end":15.015968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.356593750000002,"end":22.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.774093750000002,"end":44.564093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.73471875,"end":32.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.12284375,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.071593750000005,"end":37.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.409093750000004,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.95221875,"end":59.650343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.08909375,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.97096875000001,"end":89.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.53596875000001,"end":92.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.82659375,"end":93.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.94034375000001,"end":103.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.38596875,"end":108.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.58784375,"end":137.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.76471875000001,"end":138.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.87846875,"end":155.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.51284375,"end":156.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.54659375,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.24159375000002,"end":164.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.09784375,"end":168.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.44721875000002,"end":172.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.61159375,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.15971875000002,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.26909375000002,"end":192.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.07909375,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.31409375,"end":187.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.92909375000002,"end":194.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.22409375,"end":195.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.11846875,"end":208.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.26846875,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.63909375,"end":217.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.47784375,"end":222.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.71346875,"end":225.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.07159375,"end":229.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.00346875000002,"end":232.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.48409375000003,"end":239.25096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.01034375,"end":241.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.20409375000003,"end":246.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.30034375000002,"end":261.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.69471875,"end":263.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.83784375,"end":265.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.57596875,"end":266.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.12846875,"end":280.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.45971875000004,"end":296.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.52034375,"end":323.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.03096875,"end":325.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.17409375,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.96284375000005,"end":328.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.59971875,"end":329.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.61659375000005,"end":332.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.26159375000003,"end":334.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.67909375000005,"end":339.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.31971875000005,"end":340.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.90596875,"end":341.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.78346875,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.87471875,"end":362.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.02096875,"end":361.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.53971875,"end":362.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.89409375,"end":363.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.06284375,"end":363.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.16409375,"end":363.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.43409375000005,"end":364.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.04159375,"end":364.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.37909375000004,"end":368.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.49721875,"end":369.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.03659375,"end":381.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.79596875000004,"end":370.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.58721875000003,"end":385.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.47721875,"end":384.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.52784375000005,"end":384.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.64596875,"end":398.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.32909375,"end":388.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.15909375,"end":395.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.85909375,"end":399.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.71971875,"end":411.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.66284375000004,"end":415.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.16846875000005,"end":416.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.20221875000004,"end":442.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.03784375000004,"end":446.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.57721875000004,"end":450.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.37409375000004,"end":453.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.74909375000004,"end":457.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.84971875,"end":464.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.29159375,"end":472.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.13846875,"end":486.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.25596875,"end":477.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.52596875,"end":477.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.53721875,"end":495.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.35909375000006,"end":492.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.44346875,"end":492.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.39659375,"end":498.23159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.05846875000003,"end":502.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.53034375000004,"end":509.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.23409375000006,"end":509.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.85846875000004,"end":509.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.89221875000004,"end":509.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.90909375,"end":510.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.02721875000003,"end":510.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.29721875,"end":510.46596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.46596875000006,"end":510.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.78659375,"end":510.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.83721875000003,"end":525.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.07346875,"end":512.1028437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.07534375,"end":529.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.50971875,"end":527.64471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":13.821,"text":"我們請參與委員請選擇好謝謝主席那我們是有請部長請陳部長"},{"start":24.125,"end":41.643,"text":"部長,事實上這幾年來我在關心這個越南的蚵仔事實上都有混沖變成台灣的蚵仔那尤其他們都冠上嘉義東石的這個名字那現在看起來報導已經不只是越南的蚵仔都已經變中國的蚵仔"},{"start":44.986,"end":47.067,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文"},{"start":60.454,"end":64.877,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及"},{"start":89.875,"end":102.989,"text":"這個牡蠣本身透過金門過來的部分那表面上看起來好像是正常的貿易我們不講走私的部分就是用他用正常管道進來的部分那現在我們在處理我經過幾次會議的討論"},{"start":104.671,"end":125.196,"text":"我覺得我們現在要去推動金門牡蠣的養殖登記因為你唯有養殖登記你能夠了解到金門的實際的生產量的部分然後再看養殖登記的來源牧場本身去做一個勾基這樣子就能夠避免他只是很含糊的講說我是我自己養的"},{"start":126.036,"end":155.676,"text":"因為你沒有證明的話就很難處理所以我們現在後續會再跟金門縣政府這邊來討論然後透過相關的查驗的部分我們水市所跟他們的金門的水市所我們也會來合作落實的登記養殖登記跟數量登記以後就能夠一部分的遏止相關的透過這樣子以正常管道來走勢的這個情況那第二個部分是針對走勢的部分我想我們還是跟海委會再合作去加強查緝走勢的這個部分"},{"start":156.536,"end":159.778,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容"},{"start":177.367,"end":195.338,"text":"其他的產品也是一樣的?事實上很多水產品我們知道臺灣的產量可能在不夠的情況之下就是都會被混充金好不好?好,我們近期就會跟臺委會一起討論好,這部分應該要再加強然後第二個那我要跟部長來說一下事實上我們"},{"start":196.539,"end":203.126,"text":"這幾年的預算你看一下事實上總預算都在提高總預算從111年的時候是2兆2700億到了明年度的總預算是3兆1325億很明顯的總預算是在提高但是你看一下我們的漁業署"},{"start":218.662,"end":238.862,"text":"我們漁業署的預算從111年的時候是75億到114年是88億很明顯這個漁業署成長的幅度跟總預算成長的幅度就一個落差更不要去講說漁業署跟農糧署跟其他的我們農業部裡面的其他部會"},{"start":240.063,"end":262.699,"text":"我們這樣看起來就是說這個政府好像對於台灣的漁業基本上是放棄的對於漁業沒有更大的一個重視那這個沒有重視的結果是怎樣我在進一步我直接講完部長再一次回答你知道我們現在台灣的漁港台灣尤其在西海岸的漁港有很多幾乎都是都是淤積啦"},{"start":263.8,"end":265.061,"text":"及動物保護法部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法部分條文修正草案。"},{"start":289.798,"end":291.06,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程"},{"start":307.282,"end":327.902,"text":"所以我覺得部長我們漁業署的預算反映出來的就是我們對於漁民的照顧結果反映出來的因為預算不足這一些漁港沒有長年在清淤結果他們連航道要出港都沒辦法安全的工作這個我覺得這樣起來這樣不行好不好部長"},{"start":330.156,"end":351.283,"text":"謝謝委員對漁業的關心那我第一個說明就是說漁業署的預算114看起來有減少最主要是前任漁港的專案計畫的經費就是減少了但是從我就任以來我也發現到漁業署本身的工作其實是非常多的我覺得他應該要重新盤整包括您剛才說的這些"},{"start":352.263,"end":381.123,"text":"這些海洋捕撈的部分的這些漁港雖然說二類漁港是由縣市政府來主管的但是其實農業部也應該負一些責任啊這副漁港不靠常用步驟他也是沒辦法去製作對啊所以這些漁港所以就是都要靠漁業署來撐啊所以還有包括養殖漁業的部分我們怎麼樣更有效的去提升養殖的這些效率的部分我相信後續我想我們會來我會真的來關注漁業的部分因為我覺得他的"},{"start":382.663,"end":410.473,"text":"工作項目跟編列的經費﹚但是部長你看嘛,你從預算去看起來﹚的確有落差﹚他錢就沒有增加﹚對﹚你更不用期待說以後就做比較多行賄。所以,部長我下一次還會跟你再講養殖業,我現在就,我們現在是講沿海的捕撈。光沿海的捕撈對不對,你就最基本的去明處理給安全出港就好。所以你要怎麼樣讓每一個漁港,它的出港是一個安全的,是讓我有很多數據啊。"},{"start":412.694,"end":440.708,"text":"這個數據呈現出來的你漁港要出港就不安全這要處理這就是委員講的齁其實航道的清淤齁特別是在這幾年來颱風每次颱風來、好雨來那個預計從上游的河沙預計在河道愈來愈嚴重啦所以相關的這些河道的清淤的部分應該更加重視啦那以前邊內的經費不足的話我們再看看用什麼方式調整但是後續的115年的時候我想我們會再做比較完整的一個調整"},{"start":441.368,"end":451.797,"text":"部長我給你看數字你就知道了我再用一點時間你看一下我們東石我們往療愈港他的航道的輸進在上一次是在什麼時候在108年"},{"start":453.806,"end":472.008,"text":"白水湖漁港在上一次的航道輸進是105年所以你從東石這裡當然東石的澳大利亞溫港、亞洲這幾乎幾乎都已經沒辦法處理了所以你看他們的這個最低崗位的水深都已經到了零了"},{"start":473.446,"end":478.007,"text":"條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃內容及動物保護法規劃"},{"start":503.558,"end":505.638,"text":"部分條文修正草案．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃內容與進程．及動物保護法規劃"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":706,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時26分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席（呂委員玉玲）：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，這幾年來，我都在關心越南的蚵仔事實上都混充臺灣蚵仔，尤其都冠上嘉義東石的名字。現在從報導看起來，已經不只越南的蚵仔，還有中國的蚵仔透過金門、馬祖走私，諸如把蚵仔丟包在小金門海域，再發GPS給漁民，這樣讓中國的蚵仔混充進來臺灣。事實上，在臺灣消費的時候，不管是臺灣蚵仔還是越南蚵仔，甚至現在被報導的中國蚵仔，都沒有辦法區分，但是進來以後就是會實質衝擊到臺灣本土蚵仔的市場。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，具體上你們有什麼樣做法可以杜絕這種中國蚵仔混充進來臺灣嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，現在牡蠣透過金門過來的部分，表面上看起來好像是正常貿易，我們不講走私部分啦！就是針對用正常管道進來的部分，現在我們的處理，經過幾次會議的討論，我覺得現在要推動金門牡蠣的養殖登記，唯有養殖登記才能瞭解金門的實際生產量，再就養殖登記的來源牧場本身加以勾稽，這樣就能夠避免業者只是很含糊地說是自己養的，因為沒有證明的話就很難處理。所以我們後續會再跟金門縣政府討論，透過相關查驗，水試所跟金門水試所也會合作，落實養殖登記跟數量登記以後，就能部分遏止透過正常管道走私的情況。第二個部分是針對走私，我們還是跟海委會合作，加強查緝走私這個部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：有多少面積就進多少嘛！面對混充方式，就如部長講的，要加強勾稽到底養殖面積多少、產量多少，如果沒有這些產能的話，怎麼有辦法有這麼多混進來嘛！我覺得這件事情很重要，而且我相信不只是蚵仔。"],["陳部長駿季：其他產品也是一樣的。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上，據我們所知，很多水產品可能在臺灣產量不夠的情況之下，都會被混充進來。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們近期就會跟海委會一起討論。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這部分應該再加強。","第二，我要跟部長說說這幾年的預算。事實上，總預算都在提高，111年是2兆2,700億元，到了明年度，總預算是3兆1,325億元，很明顯的，總預算是在提高，但是你看一下漁業署，漁業署的預算在111年是75億元，到114年是88億元，很明顯，漁業署預算成長的幅度跟總預算成長的幅度就有落差，更不用講漁業署跟農糧署等其他農業部裡面的部會相比，照我看來，感覺就是這個政府好像對臺灣的漁業基本上是放棄的，對於漁業沒有更大的重視。沒有重視的結果會怎麼樣？我直接講完，部長再一次性回答。你知道現在臺灣的漁港、尤其是西海岸的漁港，有很多幾乎淤積到連出港都沒辦法啦！漁民出港如果沒有挑水比較深的時候，也就是趁滿潮的時候出港，有可能因為海水太淺完全翻船欸！你想想，我們臺灣現在已經這麼進步了，在一個進步的國家，結果連最基本的漁民要出海討生活，都還怕出去之後，連在航道上要出港都不是安全的！如果是跑到其他地方，海水可能比較淺，但那裡不是欸！連航道都沒有辦法維持一定的吃水深度。部長，我覺得漁業署預算反映出來的就是對漁民的照顧，結果反映出來的是，因為預算不足，這些漁港沒有長年清淤，導致他們要從航道出港都沒辦法安全地工作，我覺得這樣不行，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員對漁業的關心。我的第一個說明是漁業署的預算在114年看起來減少，最主要是因為前鎮漁港的專案計畫經費減少了。但是從我就任以來，我也發現漁業署本身的工作其實是非常多的，應該重新盤整，包括您剛才說的這些海洋捕撈漁港，雖然二類漁港是由縣市政府主管，但其實農業部也應該負一些責任啦！"],["蔡委員易餘：漁港要是不靠中央補助，幾乎也沒辦法做……"],["陳部長駿季：是沒辦法維持的啦！"],["蔡委員易餘：對啊！所以這些都要靠漁業署來撐啊！"],["陳部長駿季：還包括養殖漁業部分，要怎麼更有效地提升養殖效率，後續我會針對漁業部分關注，因為我覺得漁業署的工作項目跟編列經費的確有落差啦！"],["蔡委員易餘：部長你看嘛！從預算看起來，錢就沒有增加，更不用期待它有辦法做更多工作。","部長，我下一次還會再跟你講養殖漁業，現在是講沿海捕撈。沿海捕撈最基本的就是在漁民出海時讓他能安全出港就好，所以重點是要怎麼樣讓每一個漁港出港都是安全的。事實上我有很多數據，照這些數據呈現出來的，漁港要出港就不安全！"],["陳部長駿季：對，就如同委員說的，重點在於航道的清淤。特別是在這幾年，每當颱風來、豪雨來，從上游來的河沙就淤積在河道，愈來愈嚴重啦！所以河道清淤等相關部分應該更加重視啦！以前編列經費不足的話，我們再看看用什麼方式調整，後續編列115年預算的時候，我們會再做比較完整的調整。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我給你看數字，你就知道了啦！我再用一點時間。你看一下我們東石，網寮漁港上一次航道疏濬是在什麼時候？在108年。白水湖漁港上一次航道疏濬是在105年，所以從東石這裡就看得出來。當然除了東石，塭港、下庄更幾乎已經沒辦法出海了，你看它們最低港內水深都已經到零了，表示這個港幾乎已經沒作用了。可是不能這樣啊！它就是漁港嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們能做的就是至少讓它的航道可以暢通，當然，在技術層面上，疏濬航道時只要一場颱風來，旁邊的沙滾下去，航道又沒了，但總有其他方法，至少讓航道可以足夠漁民出港嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：在這個部分，特別是航道清淤部分，不只是例行地挖，可能連周遭也要一併處理，這部分我再請漁業署檢討。"],["蔡委員易餘：你們要有整體的計畫啦！臺灣有這麼多漁港，對於漁港來說，第一是航道要疏濬，第二是漁港的美化，這些都需要預算，但是以我現在看到預算不足的情況，真的做不了工作，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：了解，我們來努力。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-19-12","speakers":["呂玉玲","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘","謝衣鳯","陳超明","邱志偉","麥玉珍","吳宗憲","羅廷瑋","羅智強","洪申翰","郭昱晴","徐富癸","張雅琳","徐欣瑩","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-11-13"],"gazette_id":"1139901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1139901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請農業部部長就「我國動物保護政策執行概況，及動物保護法修法規劃內容與進程」進行\n報告，並備質詢；二、審查：(一)本院委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員呂玉\n玲等16人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員張智\n倫等16人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員劉建國等16人擬具「動物保\n護法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修\n正草案」案、(七)本院委員林岱樺等21人擬具「動物保護法第十四條之一、第十四條之二及第三\n十條條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、\n(九)本院委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員廖先翔等\n19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案、(十二)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部\n分條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1139901_00001"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}