{"total":{"value":109,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2024-12-04"],"total_page":2,"ivods":[{"id":"16340","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16340","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d323e8eb5774d58bee01d5ac5818d31fba82e37f9ba35fd77a14f1676e04b83a85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T14:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：一、本院教育及文化委員會報告併案審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例第二十六條之二條文修正草案」、委員柯志恩等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一條文草案」、委員林德福等16人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第二十四條之二條文草案」、委員陳培瑜等21人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一、第七條之二及第七條之三條文草案」及台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一及第七條之二條文草案」案二、委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一、第七條之二及第七條之三條文草案」案）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:30:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:26:00+08:00","duration":6954,"影片長度":"01:55:54","委員發言時間":"13:30:06 - 15:26:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[22],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2024112927","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1917.8072187500002,"end":1918.4315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1919.71409375,"end":1978.0172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1978.0678437500003,"end":2097.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2099.4665937500004,"end":2112.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2113.18596875,"end":2135.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2137.9753437500003,"end":2167.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2169.4978437500004,"end":2176.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2179.18409375,"end":2180.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2181.5465937500003,"end":2182.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2182.5253437500005,"end":2183.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2184.4490937500004,"end":2188.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2189.59596875,"end":2193.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2195.2322187500004,"end":2197.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2197.9490937500004,"end":2204.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2205.40784375,"end":2206.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2207.31471875,"end":2209.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2209.5759687500004,"end":2223.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2223.9365937500006,"end":2238.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2238.1959687500002,"end":2275.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2276.2997187500005,"end":2279.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2279.6747187500005,"end":2281.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2282.2565937500003,"end":2282.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2283.4209687500006,"end":2284.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2285.29409375,"end":2316.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2316.64784375,"end":2325.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2326.18221875,"end":2394.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2395.3865937500004,"end":2400.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2400.97221875,"end":2419.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2419.6697187500004,"end":2420.8847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2421.6609687500004,"end":2422.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2423.3484687500004,"end":2430.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2430.8240937500004,"end":2433.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2434.1990937500004,"end":2442.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2443.1765937500004,"end":2455.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2459.0222187500003,"end":2459.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2459.0390937500006,"end":2461.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2462.4140937500006,"end":2474.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2474.4122187500006,"end":2530.2009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2533.8122187500003,"end":2563.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2563.93409375,"end":2566.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2566.22909375,"end":2566.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2566.4990937500006,"end":2577.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2577.36659375,"end":2580.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2580.13409375,"end":2581.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2581.6022187500002,"end":2583.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2585.5340937500005,"end":2593.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2592.79034375,"end":2600.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2600.26596875,"end":2603.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2603.87721875,"end":2605.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2605.63221875,"end":2605.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2605.6490937500002,"end":2605.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2605.6659687500005,"end":2605.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2605.69971875,"end":2605.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2605.93596875,"end":2606.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2606.0203437500004,"end":2606.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2606.3747187500003,"end":2606.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2606.59409375,"end":2606.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2606.96534375,"end":2608.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2608.7372187500005,"end":2611.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2611.67346875,"end":2619.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2622.33846875,"end":2632.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2633.7965937500003,"end":2636.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2636.68221875,"end":2638.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2638.53846875,"end":2650.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2650.65471875,"end":2662.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2663.2772187500004,"end":2697.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2698.39409375,"end":2699.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2699.64284375,"end":2704.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2705.54909375,"end":2778.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2779.25909375,"end":2781.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2783.0897187500004,"end":2783.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2784.1697187500004,"end":2784.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2786.12721875,"end":2792.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2793.2147187500004,"end":2795.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2799.6609687500004,"end":2817.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2820.3497187500006,"end":2820.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2820.8053437500002,"end":2846.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2846.59034375,"end":2863.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2863.6678437500004,"end":2874.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2875.15971875,"end":2881.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2882.33159375,"end":2887.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2888.6765937500004,"end":2902.6490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2903.66159375,"end":2908.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2906.8340937500006,"end":2909.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2908.8253437500007,"end":2910.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2910.29346875,"end":2910.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2911.25534375,"end":2913.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2915.0859687500006,"end":2918.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2919.27096875,"end":2919.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2920.53659375,"end":2924.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2926.1728437500005,"end":2926.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2926.84784375,"end":2927.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2928.2315937500007,"end":2928.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2929.6490937500002,"end":2931.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2931.8428437500006,"end":2932.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2932.65284375,"end":2934.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2934.8465937500005,"end":2937.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2941.15784375,"end":2945.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2946.87846875,"end":2951.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2951.99159375,"end":2952.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2952.3122187500003,"end":2954.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2957.1384687500004,"end":2957.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2957.83034375,"end":2959.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2959.93971875,"end":2960.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2960.42909375,"end":2960.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2961.0534687500003,"end":2973.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2974.16534375,"end":2980.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2980.79721875,"end":2996.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2996.96346875,"end":2998.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2998.09409375,"end":2998.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3000.3047187500006,"end":3000.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3000.32159375,"end":3029.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3030.1228437500004,"end":3030.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3031.01721875,"end":3090.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3090.9909687500003,"end":3093.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3093.7753437500005,"end":3096.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3096.10409375,"end":3098.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3098.5340937500005,"end":3099.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3100.3903437500003,"end":3103.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3102.76971875,"end":3103.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3103.19159375,"end":3104.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3103.63034375,"end":3104.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3104.4909687500003,"end":3104.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3104.71034375,"end":3104.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3104.8622187500005,"end":3106.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3106.39784375,"end":3107.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3109.4522187500006,"end":3114.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3114.9197187500004,"end":3115.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3115.79721875,"end":3116.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3117.78846875,"end":3122.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3122.54721875,"end":3136.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3136.8572187500004,"end":3140.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3141.2109687500006,"end":3149.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3149.8678437500002,"end":3151.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3152.14596875,"end":3163.7897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3164.2790937500004,"end":3166.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3167.2997187500005,"end":3176.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3176.96909375,"end":3181.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3182.38596875,"end":3191.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3191.5828437500004,"end":3197.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3200.29034375,"end":3232.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3231.5428437500004,"end":3290.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3232.47096875,"end":3233.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3294.4697187500005,"end":3302.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3303.2615937500004,"end":3316.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3316.3903437500003,"end":3327.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3328.8103437500004,"end":3330.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3330.9197187500004,"end":3331.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3331.7128437500005,"end":3333.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3335.7459687500004,"end":3338.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3337.0790937500005,"end":3337.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3339.3740937500006,"end":3341.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3339.5934687500003,"end":3340.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3341.0447187500004,"end":3342.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3344.1328437500006,"end":3344.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3344.16659375,"end":3344.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3344.21721875,"end":3344.5040937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3344.5040937500007,"end":3344.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3344.57159375,"end":3345.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3345.8203437500006,"end":3346.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3346.44471875,"end":3351.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3353.7853437500007,"end":3353.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3353.8359687500006,"end":3355.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3358.13909375,"end":3363.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3363.45471875,"end":3367.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3367.60596875,"end":3458.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3458.5790937500005,"end":3464.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3465.12659375,"end":3487.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3486.6590937500005,"end":3491.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3490.6922187500004,"end":3491.7384687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3491.4684687500003,"end":3497.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3497.5772187500006,"end":3501.5597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3502.25159375,"end":3502.7072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3502.8759687500005,"end":3531.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3531.36096875,"end":3558.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3558.4453437500006,"end":3571.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3572.5359687500004,"end":3580.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3580.1297187500004,"end":3586.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3587.5547187500006,"end":3588.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3588.9215937500003,"end":3589.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3590.64284375,"end":3618.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3618.7734687500006,"end":3621.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3621.9628437500005,"end":3650.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3651.4940937500005,"end":3709.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3710.7253437500003,"end":3738.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3739.2947187500004,"end":3752.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3755.6803437500002,"end":3761.3165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3761.87346875,"end":3775.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3775.55909375,"end":3785.6672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3786.4772187500002,"end":3790.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3790.6959687500002,"end":3797.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3797.3447187500005,"end":3797.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3798.0028437500005,"end":3798.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3798.0534687500003,"end":3803.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3804.17909375,"end":3805.7653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3806.2547187500004,"end":3807.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3807.6047187500008,"end":3826.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3826.9772187500002,"end":3827.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3827.14596875,"end":3827.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3827.19659375,"end":3839.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3840.6628437500003,"end":3858.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3849.5897187500004,"end":3849.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3858.6515937500008,"end":3868.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3869.9747187500006,"end":3871.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":3870.0422187500008,"end":3870.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3871.4765937500006,"end":3882.7322187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3885.8203437500006,"end":3885.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3885.83721875,"end":3962.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3963.8503437500003,"end":3964.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3966.6853437500004,"end":3967.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3969.5878437500005,"end":3972.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3973.23284375,"end":3978.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3978.54846875,"end":3990.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3990.71534375,"end":3992.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3993.31409375,"end":4008.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4009.02471875,"end":4021.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4022.4403437500005,"end":4031.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4032.0422187500008,"end":4036.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4036.8009687500007,"end":4040.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4040.2940937500007,"end":4054.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4054.90784375,"end":4060.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4060.5947187500005,"end":4067.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4067.56409375,"end":4079.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4080.74346875,"end":4081.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4082.2284687500005,"end":4105.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4110.44346875,"end":4135.300343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4135.31721875,"end":4135.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4136.059718750001,"end":4174.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4175.327843749999,"end":4177.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4177.42034375,"end":4178.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4179.512843750001,"end":4185.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4186.077218750001,"end":4199.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4200.555968750001,"end":4214.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4214.325968749999,"end":4226.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4226.88096875,"end":4245.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4245.780968749999,"end":4250.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4250.32034375,"end":4255.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4256.20971875,"end":4272.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4273.118468750001,"end":4273.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4274.468468749999,"end":4274.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4274.4853437500005,"end":4283.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4283.02409375,"end":4300.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4301.569718750001,"end":4331.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4331.6747187500005,"end":4332.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4333.83471875,"end":4334.425343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4334.88096875,"end":4336.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4336.4334687499995,"end":4359.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4360.56471875,"end":4363.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4364.192843750001,"end":4372.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4372.83284375,"end":4377.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4378.0809687500005,"end":4384.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4384.358468750001,"end":4390.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4390.821593750001,"end":4408.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4409.45159375,"end":4422.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4422.39471875,"end":4446.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4446.644093749999,"end":4497.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4498.062218749999,"end":4506.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4498.65284375,"end":4498.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4506.95534375,"end":4512.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4512.49034375,"end":4515.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4516.489718750001,"end":4517.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4518.21096875,"end":4528.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4526.327843749999,"end":4527.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4529.16284375,"end":4529.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4529.78721875,"end":4530.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4530.90096875,"end":4555.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4556.83784375,"end":4574.894093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4575.0965937500005,"end":4576.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4577.189093749999,"end":4590.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4591.583468750001,"end":4611.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4611.934718750001,"end":4616.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4616.96346875,"end":4639.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4639.84596875,"end":4640.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4642.24221875,"end":4645.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4647.456593749999,"end":4655.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4656.2822187500005,"end":4659.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4659.876593749999,"end":4660.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4661.26034375,"end":4666.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4667.13284375,"end":4668.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4669.545968750001,"end":4672.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4673.984093749999,"end":4677.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4678.47284375,"end":4681.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4683.029093749999,"end":4685.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4686.53909375,"end":4690.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4691.095343749999,"end":4693.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4693.87971875,"end":4701.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4702.1990937499995,"end":4707.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4708.08846875,"end":4716.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4717.04909375,"end":4729.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4731.07221875,"end":4732.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4733.58659375,"end":4734.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4735.13909375,"end":4743.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4743.981593750001,"end":4747.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4748.048468749999,"end":4748.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4749.34784375,"end":4751.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4751.64284375,"end":4755.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4756.114718750001,"end":4757.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4758.139718750001,"end":4776.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4776.651593750001,"end":4785.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4785.780968749999,"end":4787.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4788.700343750001,"end":4790.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4790.97846875,"end":4796.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4796.17596875,"end":4801.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4803.19596875,"end":4804.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4805.760968750001,"end":4806.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4806.85784375,"end":4807.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4808.27534375,"end":4809.220343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4810.772843750001,"end":4815.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4816.1728437500005,"end":4821.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4821.741593750001,"end":4828.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4828.60971875,"end":4831.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4832.30534375,"end":4836.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4836.6590937500005,"end":4846.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4846.9697187500005,"end":4855.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4855.52534375,"end":4860.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4861.17846875,"end":4872.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4872.687218749999,"end":4872.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4873.24409375,"end":4876.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4876.821593750001,"end":4878.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4879.08284375,"end":4889.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4889.528468750001,"end":4890.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4890.72659375,"end":4891.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4890.743468750001,"end":4891.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4891.2665937500005,"end":4891.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4892.0428437499995,"end":4892.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4893.39284375,"end":4906.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4906.89284375,"end":4919.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4920.173468749999,"end":4921.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4922.2997187500005,"end":4941.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4941.503468750001,"end":4941.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4941.7059687500005,"end":4942.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4942.482218749999,"end":4943.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4942.499093750001,"end":4998.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6129.655343750001,"end":6129.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6129.975968750001,"end":6131.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6132.4228437500005,"end":6135.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6135.696593750001,"end":6136.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6136.60784375,"end":6137.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6139.51034375,"end":6143.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6143.6278437500005,"end":6190.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6189.29159375,"end":6202.015343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6190.60784375,"end":6191.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6202.2684687500005,"end":6210.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6210.62159375,"end":6214.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6215.49846875,"end":6221.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6222.38346875,"end":6236.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6235.7822187500005,"end":6235.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6235.79909375,"end":6296.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6297.24096875,"end":6303.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6303.872843749999,"end":6318.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6318.94221875,"end":6323.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6324.34221875,"end":6330.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6331.919093750001,"end":6343.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6344.64284375,"end":6346.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6346.9715937500005,"end":6348.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6350.36346875,"end":6350.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6353.97471875,"end":6354.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6355.155968749999,"end":6356.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6356.894093750001,"end":6357.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6358.733468750001,"end":6359.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6359.948468750001,"end":6361.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6362.17596875,"end":6364.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6364.84221875,"end":6368.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6369.58409375,"end":6373.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6374.663468750001,"end":6377.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6378.544718749999,"end":6381.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6382.071593750001,"end":6384.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6385.682843750001,"end":6390.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6390.44159375,"end":6395.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6395.79096875,"end":6400.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6401.477843750001,"end":6405.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6405.882218750001,"end":6408.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6408.885968750001,"end":6412.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6412.581593750001,"end":6415.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6416.36159375,"end":6417.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6418.33596875,"end":6419.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6419.92221875,"end":6421.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6421.305968750001,"end":6424.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6425.609093749999,"end":6427.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6428.78159375,"end":6429.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6430.41846875,"end":6431.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6431.700968749999,"end":6433.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6434.13096875,"end":6440.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6441.505343750001,"end":6443.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6444.509093750001,"end":6462.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6463.544093750001,"end":6465.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6465.974093750001,"end":6467.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6468.15096875,"end":6471.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6472.0322187500005,"end":6477.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6477.735968750001,"end":6479.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6479.339093750001,"end":6482.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6482.950343750001,"end":6505.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6505.309718750001,"end":6513.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6514.590968750001,"end":6522.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6522.977843750001,"end":6522.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6523.3153437500005,"end":6530.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6531.685343749999,"end":6531.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6531.972218750001,"end":6534.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6534.80721875,"end":6544.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6545.894093750001,"end":6546.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6546.653468750001,"end":6547.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6547.41284375,"end":6583.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6585.128468750001,"end":6585.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6585.550343750001,"end":6586.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6589.583468750001,"end":6633.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6634.352843750001,"end":6636.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6636.968468749999,"end":6637.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6638.36909375,"end":6638.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6638.385968750001,"end":6638.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6641.27159375,"end":6665.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6666.0947187500005,"end":6717.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6718.79534375,"end":6734.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6721.208468750001,"end":6721.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6723.19971875,"end":6723.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6727.46909375,"end":6728.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6734.92784375,"end":6736.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6736.9697187500005,"end":6743.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6743.02784375,"end":6756.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6743.41596875,"end":6744.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6757.89471875,"end":6759.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6759.6834687499995,"end":6759.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6759.71721875,"end":6760.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6760.03784375,"end":6761.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6760.122218750001,"end":6760.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6764.17221875,"end":6766.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6766.399718750001,"end":6766.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6766.450343750001,"end":6766.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6768.9647187499995,"end":6775.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6775.309718750001,"end":6775.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6776.1365937499995,"end":6776.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6778.51596875,"end":6781.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6783.089093750001,"end":6784.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6787.66221875,"end":6799.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6803.423468750001,"end":6872.49284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1396.254,"end":1397.159,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1746.698,"end":1747.21,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1917.81,"end":1918.093,"text":"先開始"},{"start":1919.775,"end":1924.597,"text":"好 那我們現在開始協商會議該到的委員各黨團的代表請對這個法案有興趣的委員請大家紛紛到場那我們現在開始協商會議那本日協商是關於我們本院教育及文化委員會報告併案審查委員會蔡易餘等19人擬具運動產業發展條例第26條之二條文修正草案等五案"},{"start":1950.204,"end":1953.126,"text":"還有經院會晉赴二讀與相關提案並按協商之委員洪孟凱等19人擬具運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一、第七條之二還有第七條之三的條文草案"},{"start":1980.144,"end":1981.705,"text":"陳培瑜委員、張雅琳委員與會機關代表張廖次長、鄭署長、法務部汪南君"},{"start":1996.414,"end":1997.075,"text":"副委員副委員副委員"},{"start":2018.571,"end":2026.897,"text":"還有淨富二讀提案的關係文書還有與會委員如果有修正動議或者是機關有建議內容請提出書面印發現場來進行討論還有要特別報告因為蔡易餘委員在第一會期第二十二次會議的提案撤回"},{"start":2035.683,"end":2037.245,"text":"蔡易餘提案撤回經院會同意不納入本次協商討論目前為止所印的有關蔡易餘部分是空白的"},{"start":2051.923,"end":2067.456,"text":"先請大家的記憶一下我們的審查會於113年7月11日我們審查完畢之後我們的審查結果還有保留增訂七之二就是我們今天要討論的重點七之二跟增訂七之三還有附帶決議議案並決議院會討論前交由我們黨團協商那我們先依條文的順序討論保留的條文最後我們再討留附帶決議好"},{"start":2077.865,"end":2097.353,"text":"那這樣我就先報告到這邊那我們就針對七之二的部分我們先請這些提案的委員來先做一些的說明好不好然後委員發言之後我們就再請教育部體育署再來做相關的一些詢問答喔 好不好那七之二的部分大家先看一下"},{"start":2099.48,"end":2099.76,"text":"第七條之二為健全職業與業與運動業之發展"},{"start":2119.173,"end":2122.396,"text":"主要主管機關應積極輔導相關賽事之運動員工會成立運動員工會成立好不好這是他們這個我們提案的版本那有人對於這樣的提案七之二有沒有想法好陳培瑜委員"},{"start":2138.101,"end":2159.448,"text":"好 謝謝主席我的版本裡面是把公會後面再加上或團體那主要是因為運動團體不會只是有公會的型態那像日本他們就有協會所以如果假設在未來在台灣有各式各樣運動團體的成立我認為也要納入這樣那我的版本裡面第二項我同時提到就前項運動員工會的團體相關的承認輔導業務基本人事費團體協約的講注我希望還是由中央主管機關訂定相關辦法好 謝謝"},{"start":2169.877,"end":2193.485,"text":"就是將你原來刪除的團體你這次又把它重新認為還是把它納入會比較好一點就對了是不是來沒關係來還有沒有來麥克風好國差委員那個七之二的部分吼今天我們的主管機關第一項的部分我相信大家應該沒有什麼太大的"},{"start":2196.011,"end":2206.023,"text":"反對的意見不過我要附和一下陳培瑜委員剛剛所提出來的那兩點的意見因為我必須要說"},{"start":2207.372,"end":2219.025,"text":"我們這次在討論這個條例甚至包括機制和增訂本身其實真正希望的是能夠保護、保障這些運動員以及這些運動員他們團結起來以後的權利因此我們黨團在處理這件事情的時候"},{"start":2227.079,"end":2242.371,"text":"我們會特別的重視目前運動員他們所已經成立的工會或是團體所提出來的意見以及建議那到目前為止我們所收到現在相關的運動員"},{"start":2243.692,"end":2268.38,"text":"他們所成立的工會或是團體他們基本上所表達的訴求其實跟剛剛陳培瑜委員所講的內容是相互一致的第一個就除了工會以外是不是應該再增加這個團體的型態其實因為好像沒有什麼法律上面必要的理由只限於工會這種型態其他團體、協會的型態"},{"start":2270.265,"end":2270.625,"text":"主席董事長"},{"start":2285.336,"end":2301.538,"text":"他們成立這件事情某個程度上面來講對於運動員而言就是說這到底是一個看得到吃不到還是看得到也吃得到而且現實上面可以產生具體法律效果的條文也是他們很關切的"},{"start":2302.259,"end":2324.966,"text":"那也正是因為這個樣子所以他們才會提議說就運動員工會或團體的承認、輔導、業務費用與團體協約簽訂的獎補助及其他相關辦法由中央主管機關定制那事實上如果說我們對於這一些團體在第一項所謂的輔導"},{"start":2326.746,"end":2343.661,"text":"這個抽象的名詞之外在第二項在法律的層次上面針對於有關主管機關藉由法律的授權給主管機關定相當的辦法那等於是立法者我們簽了一張授權的支票給行政機關"},{"start":2344.882,"end":2364.538,"text":"讓行政機關在訂這些相關執法的時候有法律可以做清楚的依循那它所產生的法律效力也會提升到有關於法律授權命令這樣子的層次那對於主管機關其實相關事務的處理"},{"start":2365.198,"end":2394.478,"text":"其實我相信我們機關的次長也好署長也好應該可以很清楚的知道說當立法者願意授權做這樣的授權的時候其實具體的辦法還是交給你們來加以訂定所以我是想說是不是我們行政部門的這一邊也可以能夠去理解或是感受到這些運動員工會他們所提出來的訴求跟需求予以統一以上"},{"start":2395.458,"end":2418.866,"text":"好謝謝還有沒有好張雅琳委員我們一併發言完畢再請我們的教育部回應好因為我自己想要做個提醒就是說因為如果我們今天出了這個人事費跟業務費會不會又違反國家中立的原則這是第一個部分第二個就是說因為在食物上面其實我們在其他的團體上面我們並沒有類似的做法這件這樣子的條文其實我覺得有點太"},{"start":2423.408,"end":2435.964,"text":"我們如果有這樣的條文的話我覺得在其他的未來跟其他團體上面我們相關的工會要成立的時候會不會有類似的問題再來就是說我們是不是可以讓這個運動員的工會直接回到勞工主管機關的工位業務系統裡面讓他來一併處理"},{"start":2443.4,"end":2455.654,"text":"有所有的公會的團體通用的一個原則但是有體育署如果我們擔心到運動員成立公會有點困難我們是不是可以有提供一些專款來讓他們做使用去補助這樣子 謝謝林益謹委員好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2462.958,"end":2488.425,"text":"我認為運動產業它真的有它的特殊性所以主管機關真的是要積極來協助建立友善的勞動環境那我們用中職棒球來當例子你看每個職業棒球員他們的職業生涯其實都很短暫所以他們如果要跟雇主談判爭取權益就要付出更多的成本所以健全的工會真的需要主管機關來協力"},{"start":2490.566,"end":2515.083,"text":"不然其實要兼顧一些本身的權益其實很難那可是政府跟工會之間的關係我覺得還是要審慎思考因為之前我們在審議法條的時候我就有提到說因為工會的人事費跟業務費用如果是中央來提供這個資金恐怕會有干涉工會獨立性的這個疑慮所以工會原先的自主運作可能就會被政府左右"},{"start":2515.823,"end":2521.511,"text":"若由政府補助人事費,其他工會都要比照辦理,嚴重影響現行工會體制。"},{"start":2534.354,"end":2534.394,"text":"主席"},{"start":2564.054,"end":2580.309,"text":"好吧 我們先請體育署先發表一下吧好 報告委員 那我們這邊第七條字二的後面我們也是同意 贊同就是運動員工會或運動員團體成立的字眼 這個OK那至於所以或團體這兩個字加進去欸 你要不要先改一下好不好或運動員團體運動員團體 好"},{"start":2585.958,"end":2610.006,"text":"運動員工會或團體啊因為他前面已經名詞就是這樣嘛對或團體成立好所以可以把團體再把它放進來最後項的部分是不是我們就是比較贊同詹雅琳委員的剛剛的說法是不是可以用附帶決議的方式來進行我們建議用附帶等一下那個"},{"start":2612.052,"end":2619.576,"text":"條文上面是把團體放進去但是我們要更像剛郭昌偉人所提到的部分是用附帶決議的方法來做一個處理培育委那我們等看看你們的附帶決議沒有充分不過附帶決議跟整個的立法的意旨它還是有一段的距離啦我個人覺得啦好 郭昌偉人"},{"start":2633.8,"end":2662.505,"text":"沒有因為老實講就是立法完了以後他所做的附帶決議實際上面法律上面的效力本身恐怕是大家會很疑慮的問題那至於說剛剛所提到的有一些人事費是不是要補助的這件事情這個我們其實在立法上面可以尊重"},{"start":2663.385,"end":2677.782,"text":"主管機關的決定但是我們當要去落實所謂去輔導這一些工會或者是團體的時候如果有一個法律明確授權的依據"},{"start":2679.003,"end":2704.019,"text":"讓中央主管機關去訂一個辦法的話那我剛剛講的重點是它其實是有法律的授權命令在法律上面未接的效力因為這個條次的本身的增加事實上是在授權行政機關去做並沒有強迫行政機關那個辦法要訂成什麼樣子"},{"start":2705.592,"end":2723.445,"text":"沒有具體的說說你們那個辦法一定要定成什麼樣子那只是這些目前存在的運動員的工會他們會希望說就他們的承認輔導費用那費用的範圍你們如果覺得用人的費用不妥的話"},{"start":2724.105,"end":2747.536,"text":"那你們可以就它實際上面營運的部分給它一些獎補助當我們是用獎補助來定位的時候那個就不是一個法定費用支出的義務那個就不是一個法定費用支出的義務就沒有課給政府這樣的義務但是某個程度上你換另外一個角度講是讓主管機關"},{"start":2748.777,"end":2758.57,"text":"有這樣法律的授權當作依靠的時候你們在實際業務的推廣上面在什麼樣的情況下什麼樣的範圍內對於這些團體他們所謂的輔導"},{"start":2763.837,"end":2791.994,"text":"你願意透過什麼樣子的形式給他補助這件事情如果有法規授權的依據的話其實我是建議主管機關可以再審慎的考慮一下其實對你們來講真的是一件比較好的事情這部分我們也是沒有我們尊重那不過最後在決定之前是不是有勞動部的代表是先確認一下"},{"start":2793.217,"end":2794.959,"text":"勞動部代表有沒有來你們認為要把相關責任歸在勞動部可是我還是要提醒其實新竹市還有其他地方說實在的政府機關補助工會人事費用並不是這邊才出現的其實在很多其他的單位裡面其實也都有這樣子的一個狀況我還是要提醒一下對"},{"start":2821.139,"end":2845.147,"text":"勞動部這邊說明其實我們當然會針對工會的補助等獎勵的部分的話我們中央當然有訂立相關辦法但是就勞動部而言確實是沒有針對人事費或團體費用的部分當然我們有訂相關的獎補助針對工會的部分那至於其他的縣市主管機關他們有沒有訂的話這可能他們就他們會有"},{"start":2846.627,"end":2873.752,"text":"他們會有其他的考量每個縣市會不太一樣所以這部分的話因為這個條文的部分的話其實確實有其他委員會提到因為我們針對的公會是全部所有類型的公會所以我們基本上我們的這個標準會是一致的對那至於針對運動員部會如果說我們的這個教育部或我們體育署有另外的考量的話我們這邊當然都是尊重他們的這個部分的一個處理以上"},{"start":2875.239,"end":2898.908,"text":"所以勞動部不反對嘛 大家都尊重嘛啊尊重的結果就是 所以怎麼樣 可以把它放入我們的條文當中嗎如果我們第二項本來可能就前一項運動員工會或團體之承認輔導及頓耗獎補助頓耗其他相關辦法由中央主管機關定資啦就是說那個業務費啦 基本人事費啦團體協約簽訂之獎 那個寫的有點"},{"start":2903.71,"end":2904.811,"text":"就前項運動員、工會或團體之承認遁號輔導"},{"start":2929.69,"end":2937.613,"text":"盾號蔣補助盾號其他相關辦法鬥點由中央主管機關定制就是不要有業務費用或基本人事費用就是不要有這些所以可以不要有業務費用跟基本人事費用這是你們比較關切的"},{"start":2961.122,"end":2979.388,"text":"不好意思我只差一個問題是說他為什麼要把承認放裡面他會牽涉到你未來有任何獎補助辦法的時候你一定要畫一個主觀範圍那個主觀範圍就是哪些團體會落入你這個獎補助的補助辦法的射程範圍內"},{"start":2981.008,"end":2995.581,"text":"所以你有承認這兩個字其實是給主管機關在後續處理講補助的時候當有法律當作授權依據你們去定那個範圍的時候會非常的明確也會避免未來產生爭議"},{"start":3000.356,"end":3029.274,"text":"好 謝謝委員的指教那我們這邊是前項已經有提到要輔導公會跟團體的成立嘛那後項是針對成立以後這些運動員的公會或團體講的是後面的輔導、獎勵、補助及其他相關建議加四項兩個字相關四項之辦法四項之辦法由中央主管機關定之那"},{"start":3030.414,"end":3059.694,"text":"黃委員指教的是說我們所謂的承認是希望未來在這個辦法裡面對工會或團體的範圍能夠明定這個是所有幾乎很多法規命令在適用範圍的時候它都會有一個條文來界定說本辦法所稱的工會或是所定的工會團體包括多少個那個是一般體力裡面就可以定的"},{"start":3060.374,"end":3061.235,"text":"委員林德福等21人擬具"},{"start":3091.074,"end":3116.204,"text":"如果真的要講是他的範圍不是承認的話應該就是他的範圍頓耗、輔導、然後獎勵、補助這樣是可以的,但是就是,對,對,然後後面對,我說範圍是可以不加也可以定他就是當我們在說明裡面講清楚可不可以就是說我,我們在"},{"start":3117.944,"end":3121.954,"text":"對啊 就是那個範圍是可以不加在說明裡面加就可以了"},{"start":3122.574,"end":3149.455,"text":"但稍微我請教因為其實本席也提出來是相關嘛那你現在講是說我不知道說你現在爭執的點到底是說承認這兩個詞是我們在法律用詞不用可是我們跟幾個委員家提出來的版本其實某種程度上它是認定啦就是說這樣的一個公會或團體的認定其實還是中央主管機關認定第一它是認定然後你要輔導以及獎勵跟補助等相關的辦法嘛"},{"start":3152.619,"end":3165.577,"text":"實務上的經驗有沒有會不會有這個重複的一個運動員工會或者是說有一些運動他可能項目比較廣還是說有沒有可能有新興項目運動那也是要由主管機關來去做認定"},{"start":3167.359,"end":3181.08,"text":"所以如果說以這個回歸到我們現在希望能夠比較完整的話就是說你不要用承認這兩個這個詞但是不要用認定這個詞來去做整個比較完整的這一個方向"},{"start":3182.776,"end":3195.996,"text":"教育部的說法是不管是承認或是認定或是什麼基本上他們認為在本質上他們就會做這樣的事情所以在文字上面不需要特別把它做一個圖顯了那大家委員看一下嘛"},{"start":3200.622,"end":3213.187,"text":"其實這樣子,就是我們因為七條之二的第一項其實已經有講說是為了健全職業...因為積極輔導相關賽事制運動員公會團體成立了嘛第一項已經成立的這些運動員公會團體前項這些公會團體是輔導、講助、補助嘛所以就沒有成立的問題了所以第一項已經都成立了嘛"},{"start":3223.291,"end":3242.324,"text":"所以我們第二項就是針對這些已經成立的已經被承認的團體或公會我們進行輔導、講助、補助跟其他事情這樣比較單純啦沒有啦我覺得其他的委員就是其實要讓這個文字裡面大家不要就是一望就知道就是很明確的嘛那剛剛大家已經有"},{"start":3243.004,"end":3243.224,"text":"第七條之二為健全"},{"start":3262.944,"end":3290.367,"text":"職業與業餘運動業之發展中央主管機關應積極輔導相關賽事之運動員、工會或團體成立前項運動員、工會或團體之輔導、獎勵、補助及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之好不好文字上沒有問題那我們就修正後通過好不好來很好七字三那我們附帶訣也不用了七字三來我們來看七字三七字三好"},{"start":3294.537,"end":3301.495,"text":"我們73的問題來各位委員有沒有誰有意見我們把73放進來好不好就73之多有關於這個"},{"start":3303.365,"end":3326.814,"text":"防堵的機制當然還有包括委員有提到一些所謂的懲罰的一個條款然後大家先看一下我們對照條文七支三的部分來七支三好長現在又開始嗎我們現在看到題會討論的版本嘛好不好大家看一下我不要念了嘛這個A4紙都已經四分之三的文字了大家看一下有意見的請舉手"},{"start":3328.974,"end":3355.441,"text":"張雅玲委員、林益謹委員好不好來我們先看一下來先雅玲我想就是在針對有更正有更正這73以A4的為主啦她這個提案條本A4的在哪裡我們先看一下每個委員都有相關資料跟你們的提案版本不一樣是不是新的新的新的給大家"},{"start":3358.191,"end":3360.393,"text":"7.3中央主管機關應制定並推動防制運動賭博政策,輔導職業與業餘運動團體建立防制運動賭博之信託基金機制及辦理。"},{"start":3387.554,"end":3402.426,"text":"以強暴、脅迫、詐訴或其他非法之方法,法案運動競技賽事之公平者處一年以上、七年以下有期徒刑,得併科新台幣一千萬元以上、三千萬元以下罰金"},{"start":3403.507,"end":3423.041,"text":"審判前項之罪因而至人與死者處無期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑至重傷者處三年以上十年以下有期徒刑各得併科新台幣兩千萬元以上五千萬元以下罰金三人以上共同犯第二項之罪者處三年以上十年以下有期"},{"start":3423.982,"end":3434.626,"text":"徒刑得病科新台病2000萬元以上5000萬以下罰金第二項及前項之未遂犯罰之第二項運動競技賽事範圍如下一、職業運動聯盟舉辦之職業運動賽事二、特定體育團體舉辦之企業運動聯賽"},{"start":3444.73,"end":3463.419,"text":"其他經中央主管機關公告之與運動產業發展有關之重要運動基金賽事不管怎麼樣大家討論我還是要給予體育署終於拿出這個很具象的哪一些的賽事我們之前說實在的也是說了很久了我們今天才看到最後看到的出來"},{"start":3465.388,"end":3488.286,"text":"現在終於拿到了我們拿這個A4版本大家來做討論好不好之前你可以對照一下我們七四三四我們要求他們提出來是都沒有今天有把這三大項裡面大家可以看得出來有啦職業運動啦特定體育團體舉辦的企業運動聯賽還有中央主管公告與運動產業相關的有起碼很具象的提出來了那個第二款那個企業運動聯賽把它修正為企業聯賽了"},{"start":3490.748,"end":3494.489,"text":"感謝召委包括相關的罰款金額以及刑期都有加重本席予以肯定也有放入要求建立"},{"start":3518.255,"end":3540.175,"text":"防止運動賭博的信託基金的機制這本期予以肯定但我們在七支我的版本七支二裡面是有再提到一個就是說擁有運動經營權法人團體代表等主動配合檢調調查如果說有隱匿抗拒的話那處相關的一個罰緩的一個部分那在這個"},{"start":3542.316,"end":3557.003,"text":"教育部、體育署這個版本裡面是沒有把它放入那我是不是討論一下我覺得說因為過去到現在的這個樣態裡面還是有當然可能會難度越來越高可是過去畢竟是有這個詐騙集團直接去經營球團"},{"start":3558.524,"end":3586.013,"text":"那這樣子的痛我們不能再發生所以我還是希望是說能夠針對這個經營者的一個部分當然我相信百分之九十九都是善良經營者但是如果說真的有檢調要進入到調查的話相關的法人、團體、代表應該都要主動配合辦理那也要有相關的一個行則以上 謝謝好 有關經營者的部分來 我們林德福委員 關於張雅琳委員那個 好 我們好"},{"start":3587.608,"end":3611.35,"text":"好 謝謝我想這次的整個運動產業發展條例的一些修法因為我們過去發生很多職業籃球員甚至於射擊打假球、地下遷讀這些不法的案件造成民眾對我國運動競賽的賽事信任度大幅度的下滑"},{"start":3612.071,"end":3615.454,"text":"委員蔡易餘等19人擬具《運動產業發展條例增訂第七條之一條文草案》、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具"},{"start":3632.291,"end":3644.443,"text":"灰頭柱標的職業運動並不受其範圍如果發生遷土放水將面臨是否可以適用處罰的餘地本席認為現行運動產業發展條例需要加以修改以維護運動賽事"},{"start":3651.587,"end":3678.848,"text":"禁忌的公平性保護運動產業善良的發展避免地下遷讀來影響整個職業業餘整個運動的發展本席所提的版本條文字號與其他版本不同但是本席不會堅持用自己的版本只要修法能夠防範地下遷讀讓運動產業更好本席都會支持此外"},{"start":3680.389,"end":3694.691,"text":"執辦公會、籃球公會所提的一些修法的建議本席也認為教育部、法務部要把這些意見給聽進去比如說明文來訂定政府應制定職業運動防堵的政策"},{"start":3695.732,"end":3704.038,"text":"並向學校學校端來深化相關的法治教育那針對目前整個運採條例沒有辦法覆蓋之國內熱門的賽事如運採未開盤之"},{"start":3710.982,"end":3731.233,"text":"少數職棒的賽事、籃球聯賽、企業足賽還有企業排球以致於學生賽事等等都比照運產條例來設計提高相關的罰則以嚇阻這些意圖操縱賽事不孝的分子希望運動產業發展條例能夠順利修法以進行國內產業的發展以上 謝謝"},{"start":3739.669,"end":3750.355,"text":"好 謝謝林德福委員他不堅持但是他充分的表達對於所謂的防堵機制上面要嚴格的駕馭防堵了解接下來是陳培瑜委員、張雅玲委員、林一錦委員謝謝"},{"start":3755.837,"end":3785.197,"text":"好 謝謝主席那個在七之三的第三行我想要加入本來是輔導職業與業餘運動團體對嗎我要加入一個運動員團體因為現在的基金是公會在管理不是聯盟可是按照現在的寫法其實是聯盟所以要把運動團體改成業餘運動員團體這個請注意然後再來第二項以強暴脅迫詐術要加上一個利誘"},{"start":3786.518,"end":3796.55,"text":"那個周思齊現在在看直播他交代我們利誘是一個很常用的手段所以在在入法的時候可不可以把利誘放上去謝謝"},{"start":3798.16,"end":3825.524,"text":"那可能還要再加一下順著培瑜委員的話也業餘運動員團體好不好順便一下有沒有第二條輔導職業與業餘運動員團體建立防制運動這樣才跟前面才會互相的呼應然後希望能夠以強迫、頓耗、脅迫、頓耗、詐數、頓耗、利誘或其他非法之方法這個運動員最清楚他們所承受的辛苦來"},{"start":3826.284,"end":3838.863,"text":"壓力委員其實我也是延續一樣因為我想說因為我自己這樣一路看這些他們還有招待喝花酒嘛請客嘛沒有因為這東西他現在好像似乎沒有辦法列入在這個裡面嘛所以我是"},{"start":3840.791,"end":3866.583,"text":"其實如果請他去吃飯呢或是他丟一點那時候就是周思齊的案例不是給他錢嗎就是我也是認同啦就是應該加入利誘這個事情啦OK那只是說如果我們修利誘進去的話我們的運彩條例是不是也要同步一起來修這是一個提醒那最後一個就是說在第二項的運動賽事範圍如下那個特定體育團體舉辦之企業聯賽我只想說要特地寫聯賽還是不能寫賽事嗎因為其他都是寫賽事為什麼這個特別寫聯賽"},{"start":3869.923,"end":3870.383,"text":"法制局法制局法制局委員"},{"start":3885.925,"end":3915.345,"text":"主席謝謝我想今天討論七之三喔特別在十二強棒球台灣拿到冠軍之後那有所謂的網紅在高台括論說他以前在做球棒的感覺喔全台灣人民很憤怒喔特別是我這種老球迷那所以防堵機制這個七之三的防堵機制相對更為重要喔那我想全國人民很關注那特別是職棒球員公會也有特別發聲喔希望運動賽事的這個防堵機制可以更健全"},{"start":3915.945,"end":3933.252,"text":"所以我想上次我們討論的重點就是在這個所謂的職業運動跟業餘的運動賽事的射程範圍因為運動賽事有大大小小有職業辦、職業業餘、企業聯賽、選運動力戰等等那我想將哪些賽事列入我想要請體育署務必要列清楚"},{"start":3934.032,"end":3961.892,"text":"我想今天寫的條文很多都是概括性的文字那到底是哪個賽事到時候可能要羅列清楚那包括法則的部分我想要有威懾性這個很重要因為這樣才有防堵的這個力量可是我想今天要訂這個法那我想處罰還是要符合比例原則那我這部分覺得等一下再請法務部做個說明那我們希望參照法務部的意見以上"},{"start":3969.829,"end":3989.924,"text":"第七條之三針對第二項強暴脅迫詐術為贊成加上利誘這樣的一個手段但是我要另外請教的是我們主管機關或者是法務部的代表針對這種刑事犯罪行為在立法體力上面如果是意圖盈利的話"},{"start":3990.805,"end":4008.293,"text":"通常會有加重期刑的規定這是為什麼臺灣民眾黨黨團我們一開始在針對這種非法行為太陽的時候我們寫得很細包括三人以上刑度要拉高這件事情也是我們當初所提出來的立法設計三人以上"},{"start":4009.793,"end":4029.884,"text":"去做這個事情基本上要處理組織性的犯罪形態但是你如果把它定義成犯罪組織現在組織犯罪防治條例某個程度上面認定嚴格的標準已經嚴格到快要沒有辦法適用了所以用三人以上的立法體力當初我們的設計是這樣但是"},{"start":4032.165,"end":4054.268,"text":"可是你們今天所提出來的建議條文把意圖盈利、要加重期刑的部分把它給刪了那我不知道實際上面的考慮是什麼因為在刑事處罰當中當你是意圖盈利去做這樣子的事情的時候那個刑事的可責性絕對是更高的"},{"start":4054.989,"end":4078.341,"text":"那我覺得意圖盈利去做這些事情的時候他的惡性更為重大在相應的刑事處罰上給他加重期刑我們認為是符合比例原則的只是我看到今天主管機關所提出來的條文把意圖盈利加重期刑的部分把它刪除掉實際上面的考慮到底是什麼可能等一下也要麻煩我們的主管機關回應一下還有沒有"},{"start":4082.284,"end":4102.671,"text":"那有關於剛剛所有的委員所提出來包括黃木凱委員他的條文裡面就提關有關經營者的這個層面還有黃國昌委員特別提到的意圖盈利的部分還有包括提到的賽事跟聯賽這個用詞用語這個層面還有剛剛林錦委員的這個不管是提到的這些相關的部分是不是請你們一併來作為說明好不好來"},{"start":4111.015,"end":4125.483,"text":"謝謝委員剛剛提到的我們這一次的修法希望能夠建構一個安全友善的競技環境來維護這一個運動員可以安心的來從事職業運動等等的生涯發展"},{"start":4126.825,"end":4146.481,"text":"原來這個關係文書所列的多數的版本的刑度都列在五年以下後來我們這個再仔細思考了以後今天修正的是運動產業發展條例是所有運動產業的基本法"},{"start":4147.242,"end":4159.832,"text":"那跟運動彩券發行條例運動彩券業只是運動產業裡面的一支的特別法那它被拉出來而且是立法立在前面"},{"start":4160.975,"end":4178.187,"text":"我們今天把這個基本法訂出來以後宣示一個剛剛各位委員、跨黨派都支持的就是要建構友善安全的運動競技環境所以我們的賽事也可能會包括到納入標的賽事"},{"start":4179.571,"end":4198.266,"text":"也可能不納入標的但是是對於運動產業發展全國各界關注的重要賽事所以這樣一個重要賽事如果被用強暴脅迫、詐欺或利誘利誘待會兒可能還可以請法務部來表示意見的這些"},{"start":4200.612,"end":4201.513,"text":"委員陳培瑜等21人擬具"},{"start":4217.656,"end":4244.85,"text":"6個月以上5年以下或是1年以上5年以下有期徒刑金拉高了很多那至於說本來有區分意圖盈利跟不意圖盈利那我們現在是把這樣的一個刑度拉高了以後未來就由司法機關去裁判的時候如果他有意圖盈利的也搭配後面的病科罰金他的裁量空間會比較大那因為這次的修法比較急迫那我們提到的是說"},{"start":4246.031,"end":4273.263,"text":"這一個運動產業發展條例的條文的構成要件那跟我們現在運採行之多年的構成要件盡量讓它一致那一致它的干擾的類型是一樣的那立法技術上就會比較成熟完整所以我們用的就不再做那個細部的區分那如果剛剛所提到的那個利誘的部分是不是可以請法務部來指教"},{"start":4274.58,"end":4299.995,"text":"所以你剛剛學到的意圖營利的部分你這個條件是跟那個運採的條例的體力是一樣的好等一下我們先請法務部主席各位委員還有次長、署長有關利誘是不是要放進我們這個構成要件裡面我們剛剛有查過相關過去的體力刑法裡面是沒有利誘這個用於當構成要件但是在陸海空軍刑法46條有"},{"start":4301.636,"end":4331.076,"text":"那大概就是這一個條文然後其他的大概就不是用刑罰的處罰那只有陸海空軍刑法的46條它有這個刑罰的構成要件是有放利誘那這樣利誘是不是可以放在其他非法之方法來看那其實主要如果把它放在其他非法之方法來看的話我們應該就是在實務解釋上可以來認定它是不是跟強暴脅迫、詐數相當的這個非法方法"},{"start":4331.476,"end":4332.619,"text":"誒!"},{"start":4334.875,"end":4363.075,"text":"合意利誘合意因為像如果是利誘的話就等於是只有比如說主頭來利誘球員那利誘這個行為人就只有主頭那受利誘的那個他就不是共同證犯但是我們這一條看起來如果用詐數他們雙方都可以是共犯的這個行為所以這個可能提出來給大家參考那另外有關這個刑責的部分"},{"start":4364.246,"end":4389.544,"text":"因為這次我們有三人以上共同犯之跟因而致重傷致人於死這個三項我們把它就是有分得層次分開這也符合我們過去刑法的加重的體力因為刑法的加重強制性交罪在222條第一項裡面他有兩人以上共同犯的他的刑度是一個層次那如果是"},{"start":4392.626,"end":4406.53,"text":"致死、致重傷在226條就有更加重的所以我們這次就一併參考也有提供給體育署、教育部參考所以他們都有調整了所以我們也贊同那另外還有302條之一的"},{"start":4409.511,"end":4427.351,"text":"防害自由的這部分也是有三人以上的犯罪是一到七年然後嬰兒致死就是無期徒刑十年以上嬰兒重傷五到十二年所以這次我們也有分層次那我們也是認為這樣比較符合體力那剛剛還有這個洪孟凱委員講到的"},{"start":4427.911,"end":4445.738,"text":"就是我們檢察官在進入司法調查之後如果認為這些財團法人代表人團體他們應該有主動配合調查的義務如果有引力抗拒查證屬實有行政裁罰的這個部分這個部分我們提一個"},{"start":4446.718,"end":4468.597,"text":"我們看這個條文是有一點點奇怪因為既然已經進入司法偵查程序其實檢察官有強制如果他不配合檢察官是有強制處分有我們可以做的刑事訴訟給我們的強制處分的權利來做後續的偵查處理那如果因為他引義抗拒然後行政機關再跳出來做行政調查這看起來有"},{"start":4469.077,"end":4470.297,"text":"委員陳培瑜等21人擬具委員陳培瑜等21人擬具"},{"start":4498.346,"end":4498.766,"text":"民眾黨特別非常在乎的"},{"start":4516.871,"end":4527.8,"text":"這個我們就是尊重主管機關所以你說了老半天利誘這兩個字你們說了老半天陸海空軍刑法是有是有再說其他的沒有其他沒有"},{"start":4530.176,"end":4555.031,"text":"孟楷委員剛剛這樣的一個解釋說明我可以接受不堅持後面因為如果說我們重點在於是不要再發生過去那樣的樣態那但是如果說你現在講是說已經有這個形式已經介入檢察官已經有更強硬的手段可以要求配合的話那你說處不處罰的這個罰環的一個部分那罰環要多少這可能我們就可以再討論那這一點我不堅持不過"},{"start":4556.874,"end":4576.612,"text":"因為我也有在意圖盈利的這個部分要加重期刑二分之一所以我也認為是說這應該要把它給放入為什麼其實你看喔如果說真的有意圖盈利的情況因為我們這邊前面討論是說非法手段來防範運動競技賽事公平那它可能還是會有"},{"start":4577.513,"end":4588.321,"text":"這個情節的情種一個是牠是牽扯到賭盤、賭金的一個部分那一個可能是牠不一定有牽扯到賭盤、賭金但是也許是牽扯到比如說對戰組合、桌隊廝殺或可能我這一場"},{"start":4591.67,"end":4592.311,"text":"委員林德福等21人擬具"},{"start":4611.974,"end":4639.344,"text":"我國法令是絕對不允許有任何人用任何非法手段去介入公平的運動賽事那如果說你後面的目的還是用盈利的話那我們就加重二分之一所以我認為說是不是加重二分之一這個是可以把它給放入讓更多人看到這一點條文的時候其實是可以很明白的理解就是你要盈利的話你要賺錢不好意思不要來干涉不要來把你的黑手深入到我們的運動賽事好 以上謝謝黃國昌委員"},{"start":4642.947,"end":4671.753,"text":"剛剛這位官員所講的不好意思那個處長剛剛處長所講的事情我不是聽不懂但我要跟處長分享的幾個事情是第一個在我國刑事處罰的體力上意圖盈利本來就是一個提高刑度基本上面的法定構成要件那因此特別是在這一種打假球"},{"start":4674.022,"end":4701.103,"text":"因為要盈利而去做這件事情在惡性上如果你不透過法定型的提高沒有辦法適度的去評價他對於法規範秩序所造成的迫害因為你跟其他的脈絡相比大家都會問一件事為什麼在其他脈絡的時候只要涉及到意圖盈利法定型就往上了"},{"start":4702.287,"end":4728.379,"text":"反而在這個脈絡的時候我們立法者的決斷竟然是不需要提高讓法院自己依照刑法第57條各款的要件去在法定裁量的裡面去做調整事實上我必須要說的事情是如果反而是在這一種為了要去懲治要去賺那種錢而去搞這一種事情傷害運動員的人"},{"start":4731.164,"end":4754.315,"text":"反而在法規上面你不加重其刑而是把它回到所謂法院量刑裡面的評價恐怕啦在整個規範的體力上面跟現行整個刑事處罰的規範體力不符那第二個立法者在這件事情所做成的評價那可能也會傳遞"},{"start":4756.178,"end":4784.826,"text":"一些錯誤的訊息那其實法條的構造並不困難其實法條的構造並不困難因為我知道你們心裡面在想的是說三人以上我已經有加重了嘛但是我要跟大家說明的事情是說在這種犯罪形態之下你要回去想喔如果你沒有辦法在訴訟上沒有辦法去證明他是三人以上一起幹的話那你就要回到第一項了"},{"start":4785.994,"end":4808.989,"text":"當你回到第一項的時候有辦法證明意圖盈利跟沒有辦法你在法定型回到本來的原則上面那恐怕不是簡單的一句說交給法官依照具體個案裁量就可以處理的事情那我們法制處您再補充一下"},{"start":4811.619,"end":4836.053,"text":"謝謝委員提到我們提到說運產條例它基本上當時就是為了要防止賭博這是大宗的類型所以用強暴脅迫、詐欺其他非法的方法防害運動競技的本身它有一點抽象為嫌犯的概念就是說你做這件事一百年九十九年都是在做賭博的"},{"start":4836.753,"end":4860.374,"text":"所以我就直接把你刑度拉高了他內部就隱含著多數的類型就是有高度不好的內涵所以他才會定一年以上七年以下那我們提到剛剛提到的就是說那我們今天新立一個法律的條文要不要創設跟運採條例的構成要件不一樣的加多一個盈利跟不盈利的區分"},{"start":4861.235,"end":4888.096,"text":"那本來原來的設想是說因為時間也比較急迫所以是不是用比較成熟的運產條例的這個構成要件都跟他一樣我們剛剛提到的原先的刑度都只有五年以下但我們現在是把他拉到七年以下那委員的意見說就分啊盈利的就五年以下七年以下那這個不盈利的是不是要輕一點那我們剛剛提到的是說"},{"start":4894.564,"end":4902.113,"text":"提到的就是說就有點像運彩一樣他即使是運動彩券他多了一個妨礙運動彩券發行的秩序"},{"start":4903.635,"end":4921.557,"text":"即使營利跟不營利的他並不區分的所以我剛特別提到的是說他已經有一個一年以上七年以下的積聚嘛那這個本來就是看你犯罪的形態手段惡不惡劣然後人數多不多危害跟你的企圖動機影不影響所以"},{"start":4922.758,"end":4941.434,"text":"我必須這樣提就是說我們在很快的時間內要擬出一個大家共識而且執行比較無礙的條文那我們的建議是因為我們提列出來的是非投注標的賽事但它的重要性在運動產業發展上跟投注標的類似所以用相同的構成來解決"},{"start":4941.994,"end":4946.278,"text":"我們好 我先說一下我們等一下休息五分鐘大家再做一個討論其實剛剛法務部都是尊重那我也尊重處長的說法我想國昌委員和剛剛洪孟凱委員只是在目前為止大家對於這個所謂的賭是深痛無絕"},{"start":4960.39,"end":4975.161,"text":"那你這個東西或許在運產的部分裡面並沒有提出這樣的部分那我們意圖引力只是更能夠凸顯出我們在修這個法的時候我們展現出實質的一個態度如果它跟你這個體力上沒有太過違法"},{"start":4975.962,"end":4997.23,"text":"我個人認為說不是運財如何我們這邊就要配合來做說不定你把這個意圖營利這一條放進去的時候運財說不定在下次修法的時候也會配合這樣的做法然後把它更凸顯出來這是我們的看法我們這邊休息五分鐘大家做一個溝通好不好五分鐘之後我們再來做最後的一個決議可以嗎我們先溝通一下"},{"start":6129.69,"end":6142.681,"text":"那是你駕駛,但你不要想要把手伸進來,因為如果說我們現在沒有修的話,那這樣子...好來,我們七之三的部分,我們剛剛經過休息協商之後"},{"start":6143.855,"end":6171.796,"text":"顯然大家還是有一些的歧見但是我還是用做最後的努力希望我們今天因為我們不管是七之一、七之二都有一個共識七之三的部分我們還是希望各委員今天還是能夠把他送出委員會然後可以盡量把他出來所以我們是不是最後顯然就是在這個有關意圖營利的這個層面當中那個國昌委員跟孟凱委員認為可以把意圖營利或三人以上這個部分就是"},{"start":6173.317,"end":6181.101,"text":"把意圖營利這個部分放到這個部分來但是教育部的法制處顯然認為說這樣的做法在行政的橫評上面會有一些的疑慮那我們是針對最後這個部分裡面我們在最後的溝通財委其實我們剛剛在中間的溝通我覺得感覺因為法務部已經覺得說可以接受、尊重"},{"start":6197.529,"end":6221.118,"text":"那教育部的法務局的部分應該是也認為說你只要把它說明清楚立法說明清楚應該是可以接受在我們一、二、三、四第四款就是說意圖營利或三人以上共犯第二項之罪這樣子的部分我覺得是不是還是因為為什麼我們再一次強調說我們在這一次的修法就是我們要"},{"start":6222.401,"end":6223.122,"text":"以加重處分來嚇阻犯刑"},{"start":6237.881,"end":6265.358,"text":"這個我覺得因為我們今天這個協商之前其實已經討論過了一次了那我們今天的精神最主要就是全部都要加重所以先天今天這個教育部拿提出來的提惠版本就是重點在強暴、脅迫、詐欺或其他非法執法我們都是加重處罰不管是刑度還是罰金那所以以今天的提惠版本的刑度已經是一上七下已經比我們上次在這裡討論的時候是加重了"},{"start":6267.159,"end":6296.405,"text":"那因為民眾黨團原先的提案原來的版本沒有加重的一般的就是強迫威脅詐數是六個月以上五年以下尤其徒刑然後如果意圖盈利竟然要加重的話加重期二分之一加完是九個月以上7.5年以下其實比我們現在光是講強暴脅迫詐數還沒有加重到的就還要低了刑度還要低了那現在突然提出來說硬土盈利加重"},{"start":6298.004,"end":6323.62,"text":"跟上次的這個版本差這麼多本來是六個月以上而已所以我會覺得說我還是希望說我們今天這個體會版本可以先出去因為這個已經討論過今天不是第一次討論大家對這個刑度加重是有高度共識的所以今天體會來版本已經加重了嘛大家看一下各位原先的版本都沒有到一上七下這麼高喔罰金也是來都已經加重是"},{"start":6324.46,"end":6348.556,"text":"德併科罰金是一千萬以上三千萬以下罰金這都是符合我們上一次討論的時候要求要去加重所以我會覺得說剛剛這個益土利是不是要進來加重這可以討論但是離上次的這個版本差太多了你原先的這個刑度最低是六個月以上好還有沒有那個國鄉委員過來是雅琳委員好"},{"start":6355.472,"end":6381.188,"text":"說明一下第一項在不涉及意圖盈利的情況下把法定行動依上膝下我們竟表同意我一點意見都沒有但是為什麼我們剛剛一直在處理意圖盈利的事情是在刑事法律的世界裡面當意圖盈利而去做一些事情的時候"},{"start":6382.13,"end":6399.484,"text":"他的法定型本來就是會拉高的所以拿不同的版本的出發點來比事實上並不是在討論這個問題的本質這個問題的本質是我們的出發點是第一項在這一種行為太陽下"},{"start":6401.573,"end":6426.629,"text":"基本款的行為太陽下一上七下大家都認同這個沒有問題現在在思考的層次是在這個基本款上面如果你因為意圖盈利而做這件事情的時候是不是應該要加重處罰那我們剛剛所在講的是我理解就是說可能教育部這邊"},{"start":6428.834,"end":6429.194,"text":"委員陳培瑜等21人擬具"},{"start":6444.568,"end":6445.088,"text":"委員陳培瑜等21人擬具"},{"start":6463.881,"end":6482.057,"text":"10年以下有期凸顯那為什麼3人以上犯我們要加重處罰因為我們認為3人以上犯他對於法益侵害威脅的程度跟可責性的程度會比較高那但是如果今天我是因為意圖盈利來出力"},{"start":6483.004,"end":6503.275,"text":"我意圖盈利來處理即使沒有三人以上犯那以我們大家目前社會上也好、球員也好對這種事情深惡痛絕的程度直接把它放在意圖盈利或三人以上共同犯第二項之罪處三年以上十年以下有期徒刑我們基本上會認為說這樣子的話"},{"start":6505.456,"end":6533.725,"text":"其他的規範其他的規範我們要考慮的事情通通都可以涵蓋在這裡面而不是在任何的情就是說用意圖盈利按照一般的體力全部都加加二分之一剛剛我們在討論希望能夠有一個大家彼此之間有共識的方向的建制基礎是在這裡還有沒有其他的意見來張雅琳委員"},{"start":6534.824,"end":6562.332,"text":"我想確認一件事情就是說因為我們最主要就是希望去加重刑罰來達到一個宣誓我們要打擊這些賭博 對不對這些...好 過兩話嗎沒事 請說好 就是我們要打擊這些犯罪嘛那我想確認一件事情因為其實我們這次基本上的東西都已經是提升提高這個刑罰那我想再確認在我們這次今年修這個兒童性影像性剝削這個性影像的時候"},{"start":6562.992,"end":6583.564,"text":"我們是不是也有針對意圖盈利散播的地方我記得那時候的討論也是有在討論是不是要罰得更高更重但是因為後來法務部跟司法院的意見都是有考量到一個很平性的問題那我想我們是不是也是要去考慮到在這件事情的修法上面我們是的確要建立一個我們打擊犯罪的形象但是我們還是要回應到法律的實務上面一個很平性的問題好 那個吳佩儀委員"},{"start":6589.805,"end":6609.302,"text":"我還是想要強調說加重處罰、加重刑度、加重罰金這些我們通通都支持跟認同那意圖盈利這個我們當然深惡痛絕因為這個最後造成的傷害都是對於選手的傷害所以如果要把它加進來加重處罰跟三人以上共犯這些一起來加重"},{"start":6609.662,"end":6633.136,"text":"我覺得可以來討論但我還是希望因為我要強調的是今天的體會版本已經離民眾黨的第一次的版本這個的加重處罰都比它還要高了我是希望說下一次可不可以你在提案的時候你一開始就兼加重啊不要到已經協商最後一刻才提出一個之前沒討論過的版本這就花大家很多的時間我是希望可以這樣大家互相尊重好 那我們最後是不是鄭署長同意"},{"start":6642.231,"end":6665.221,"text":"來 所以目前為止因為那個我們尊重剛剛張雅禮委員也特別提到兒童性剝削的時候其實在這個議題上面其實還有特別提到橫貧的問題我剛剛也特別提到橫貧的問題然後佩儀委員也認為說大家認為對於這些深通誤覺裏面意圖犯罪部分大家都有各三黨都有一個共識但是還是仍然希望說在我們提出討論的時候大家能夠在這個落差上面"},{"start":6666.441,"end":6672.704,"text":"立法院朝野黨協商：一、本院教育及文化委員會報告併案審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具:「運動產業發展條例第二十六條之二條之一條文草案》、委員陳培瑜等19人擬具"},{"start":6688.331,"end":6688.931,"text":"委員蔡易餘等19人擬具"},{"start":6718.82,"end":6725.146,"text":"我剛剛有提一個附帶決議就是希望好來好73附帶決議沒問題針對運動產業發展條例73條所稱是職業運動賽事企業聯賽具體定義然後我們希望體育署在三讀後六個月內完成相關辦法跟規定"},{"start":6735.403,"end":6749.768,"text":"這體育署有沒有問題因為你要把它做一個定義吧只有改兩個字就是相關辦法改成相關規定因為我們只能定行政規則好 沒有問題可是你們給我們的版本裡面是寫職業運動賽事跟企業運動聯賽所以我們現在確定一下名字應該就是改成職業運動賽事跟企業聯賽對職業運動賽事跟那所以是長成這樣囉署長你看那我們是不是再看一下最後的條文"},{"start":6769.02,"end":6776.707,"text":"政本那邊我們剛剛都有簽字嘛剛剛培育委員那一塊所以把你這個辦法改成規定好這樣可以嗎好所以我們73附帶決議就政本在哪裡我們看一下好不好"},{"start":6787.691,"end":6799.299,"text":"好 你們先處理一下那個附帶決議那我們第七條之三就在我們剛剛上面所看到的螢幕上所看到的部分我們就是修正通過那附帶決議的正本是不是給我們"},{"start":6803.462,"end":6806.525,"text":"附帶決議裏面我念一下陳培瑜的附帶決議裏面就針對運動產業發展條例第七之三條所稱之職業運動賽事企業聯賽之具體定義以及輔導運動員團體建立防制運動賭博之信託基金機制之相關規定體育署應於三讀後六個月內完成這樣OK吧"},{"start":6827.583,"end":6833.928,"text":"好 那我們這個附帶決議就通過然後我還是因為我們7至2已經修正通過所以原審查會保留的附帶決議這一案我們就是不予通過好不好 7至2的部分好 那接下來本席做這樣的一個決定那我想這個我們協商的結論就是增訂第七條之二增訂第七條之三修正通過 如後我們這個修正通過還有通過協商新收附帶決議共一項"},{"start":6855.766,"end":6857.126,"text":"原審查會保留附帶決議供一案是不予通過其餘均照審查會審查結果通過檢附立法說明一份"}]}},{"id":"16341","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16341","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db323e8eb5774d58befe179f717c023a2ea82e37f9ba35fd774ed625ef8bbb1fcb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T12:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：一、本院經濟委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、委員鄭天財SraKacaw等21人擬具、委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具、委員黃捷等22人、委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等16人、委員郭昱晴等16人分別擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「野生動物保育法第十九條、第二十一條及第二十一條之一條文修正草案」及委員張雅琳等18人擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」案。二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「野生動物保育法第五十一條條文修正草案」案。三、本院委員盧縣一等16人擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」案。四、本院委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等17人擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」案。五、本院委員陳素月等18人擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」案。六、本院委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「野生動物保育法第十九條條文修正草案」案。七、本院委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:15:00+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:01:00+08:00","duration":2760,"影片長度":"00:46:00","委員發言時間":"12:15:00 - 13:01:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2024112925","term":11,"sessionPeriod":2},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":76.82909375,"end":77.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.24659375,"end":79.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":78.70221875,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.71471875,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.55284375000001,"end":118.17284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":164.52846875,"end":167.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":167.97096875,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":173.35409375,"end":174.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":175.12596875,"end":180.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":180.54284375,"end":185.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":185.77409375000002,"end":188.65971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":188.96346875,"end":190.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":191.08971875,"end":199.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":199.86471875,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":200.87721875000003,"end":203.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":204.62346875,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":208.28534375,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":218.68034375000002,"end":222.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":222.81471875000003,"end":224.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":227.20221875000001,"end":236.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":236.65221875,"end":237.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":238.05284375000002,"end":266.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.08596875,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":269.11971875,"end":270.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.01721875000004,"end":278.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.26159375000003,"end":279.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.34159375,"end":285.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.45034375,"end":287.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.88471875,"end":288.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.89721875000004,"end":290.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.48346875000004,"end":292.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.30159375,"end":295.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.17034375000003,"end":300.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.84471875,"end":304.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.31659375000004,"end":306.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.05471875,"end":313.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.95659375,"end":316.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.33596875,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.11221875,"end":320.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.95971875000004,"end":325.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.02221875000004,"end":329.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.54909375,"end":331.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.47284375000004,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.08034375,"end":334.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.02471875000003,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":337.29471875,"end":338.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.45909375,"end":339.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":338.81346875,"end":342.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":342.74534375,"end":344.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":345.09096875,"end":346.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":354.11909375000005,"end":359.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":359.33346875,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.94034375,"end":391.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":391.96971875,"end":410.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.98659375,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":411.40971875,"end":411.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":412.38846875,"end":413.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":414.10971875,"end":414.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":415.25721875000005,"end":415.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":416.62409375000004,"end":417.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":417.56909375000004,"end":418.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":418.51409375000003,"end":425.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":426.09096875,"end":427.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":429.98909375000005,"end":434.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":434.59596875000005,"end":455.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":455.79096875000005,"end":457.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":457.44471875000005,"end":466.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":466.75971875000005,"end":468.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.06346875,"end":467.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":468.48096875000005,"end":474.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":475.21409375,"end":475.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":476.64846875,"end":484.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":486.55409375000005,"end":487.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":487.60034375000004,"end":487.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":487.75221875000005,"end":487.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":487.78596875000005,"end":489.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":490.84034375000005,"end":493.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":493.77659375,"end":495.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":495.93659375000004,"end":496.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":496.44284375,"end":519.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":496.47659375,"end":499.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":519.6459687500001,"end":520.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.31659375,"end":521.9072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.39659375,"end":522.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.85221875,"end":524.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":524.6072187500001,"end":528.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.62346875,"end":528.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":528.64034375,"end":530.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":531.3234687500001,"end":532.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":533.3484687499999,"end":535.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":536.6897187500001,"end":538.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":538.3772187500001,"end":538.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":540.99284375,"end":546.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":549.97034375,"end":555.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":561.78284375,"end":567.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":568.2122187500001,"end":572.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":573.03846875,"end":574.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":574.74284375,"end":577.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":577.7297187500001,"end":579.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":579.63659375,"end":583.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":583.9397187500001,"end":593.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":593.8115937499999,"end":595.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":596.14034375,"end":598.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":599.6672187500001,"end":601.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":601.60784375,"end":604.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":604.83096875,"end":606.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":607.7165937500001,"end":609.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":609.91034375,"end":613.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":613.9097187500001,"end":616.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":616.50846875,"end":616.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":618.49971875,"end":621.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":622.4990937499999,"end":629.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":630.6159687500001,"end":636.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":636.9778437500001,"end":642.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.7634687500001,"end":660.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.0203437499999,"end":662.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":662.72909375,"end":669.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":669.79971875,"end":672.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":673.17471875,"end":674.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":675.0478437500001,"end":679.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":679.4015937500001,"end":681.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":685.83096875,"end":689.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":689.9822187500001,"end":690.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":690.20159375,"end":691.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":691.9397187500001,"end":698.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":698.3859687500001,"end":700.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":700.88346875,"end":704.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":705.0515937499999,"end":707.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":707.2453437500001,"end":708.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":709.43909375,"end":716.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":713.79284375,"end":714.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":716.79659375,"end":720.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":721.4878437500001,"end":725.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":727.4953437500001,"end":728.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":730.80284375,"end":732.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":733.23284375,"end":733.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":734.2790937500001,"end":739.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":740.0334687500001,"end":748.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":748.53846875,"end":752.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":753.31409375,"end":759.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":759.52409375,"end":812.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":812.10659375,"end":813.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":813.94596875,"end":815.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":816.03846875,"end":842.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":845.1140937500002,"end":846.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":848.2022187500002,"end":851.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":853.01159375,"end":854.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":855.40784375,"end":855.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":855.7790937500001,"end":857.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":857.4834687500002,"end":861.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":862.05659375,"end":863.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":864.3684687500001,"end":866.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":867.4734687500002,"end":869.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":869.88659375,"end":872.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":873.14346875,"end":874.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":875.53971875,"end":875.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":876.19784375,"end":876.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":877.07534375,"end":878.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":878.4084687500001,"end":879.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":880.5178437500001,"end":881.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":881.73284375,"end":882.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":883.6228437500001,"end":883.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":884.2978437500001,"end":885.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":885.96846875,"end":888.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":889.02284375,"end":890.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":891.4865937500001,"end":892.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":892.7522187500001,"end":893.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":893.25846875,"end":896.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":896.31284375,"end":897.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":897.74721875,"end":900.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":901.25721875,"end":903.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":903.48471875,"end":904.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":904.91909375,"end":909.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":909.7959687500002,"end":913.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":913.6772187500001,"end":916.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":917.30534375,"end":917.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":918.41909375,"end":920.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":921.52409375,"end":925.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":926.1984687500001,"end":927.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":928.25721875,"end":930.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":931.22721875,"end":945.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":945.68909375,"end":948.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":949.1484687500001,"end":951.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":951.59534375,"end":954.2447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":955.79721875,"end":961.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":961.8215937500001,"end":963.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":963.9478437500002,"end":968.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":968.65596875,"end":981.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":968.9934687500001,"end":969.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":982.5103437500002,"end":985.0415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":985.4465937500001,"end":986.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":986.7290937500002,"end":988.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":988.5515937500002,"end":994.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":994.23846875,"end":994.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":994.79534375,"end":996.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":996.9890937500002,"end":997.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":997.5459687500002,"end":998.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1003.35096875,"end":1004.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1005.3759687500001,"end":1015.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1015.9734687500002,"end":1017.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1017.72846875,"end":1019.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1022.9428437500001,"end":1024.1578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1025.0859687500001,"end":1025.7103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1029.81096875,"end":1031.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1032.05534375,"end":1032.7303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1032.9665937500001,"end":1033.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1033.4053437500002,"end":1037.7928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1038.1640937500001,"end":1039.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1040.91471875,"end":1043.2772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1043.74971875,"end":1048.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1048.8628437500001,"end":1053.1322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1053.99284375,"end":1058.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1058.4647187500002,"end":1059.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1060.91159375,"end":1062.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1063.57784375,"end":1069.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1069.8553437500002,"end":1078.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1078.1240937500002,"end":1091.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1091.26971875,"end":1096.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1096.9903437500002,"end":1103.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1103.6222187500002,"end":1119.0628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1119.3159687500001,"end":1135.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1135.3809687500002,"end":1141.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1141.92846875,"end":1145.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1145.9447187500002,"end":1148.3409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1148.5772187500002,"end":1151.4290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1151.5303437500002,"end":1154.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1156.2047187500002,"end":1157.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1158.1284687500001,"end":1207.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1209.8672187500001,"end":1212.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1214.60909375,"end":1223.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1226.16846875,"end":1230.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1226.3878437500002,"end":1227.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1227.7378437500001,"end":1227.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1227.7547187500002,"end":1228.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1228.9190937500002,"end":1228.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1230.62346875,"end":1231.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1231.6697187500001,"end":1232.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1232.5134687500001,"end":1241.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1242.1322187500002,"end":1242.5540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1242.62159375,"end":1248.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1248.5784687500002,"end":1249.8440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1250.1309687500002,"end":1253.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1253.5397187500002,"end":1255.7672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1255.96971875,"end":1256.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1256.77971875,"end":1260.2728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1260.5428437500002,"end":1263.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1264.0359687500002,"end":1269.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1272.4734687500002,"end":1272.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1272.96284375,"end":1273.1822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1273.55346875,"end":1277.8397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1278.0759687500001,"end":1278.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1279.0884687500002,"end":1279.7972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1279.9659687500002,"end":1287.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1288.18409375,"end":1292.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1292.5884687500002,"end":1298.9165937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1299.0853437500002,"end":1303.4222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1303.6922187500002,"end":1309.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1309.7503437500002,"end":1310.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1310.9990937500002,"end":1312.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1312.51784375,"end":1312.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1314.6778437500002,"end":1314.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1314.7115937500002,"end":1315.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1316.6184687500001,"end":1317.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1319.1497187500001,"end":1320.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1320.76971875,"end":1322.8284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1323.1322187500002,"end":1324.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1324.71846875,"end":1325.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1326.0853437500002,"end":1329.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1329.6122187500002,"end":1330.0003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1330.21971875,"end":1332.1265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1333.4090937500002,"end":1333.9322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1334.3709687500002,"end":1336.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1336.9190937500002,"end":1344.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1345.94721875,"end":1346.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1347.3140937500002,"end":1354.3340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1355.1947187500002,"end":1361.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1361.2190937500002,"end":1364.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1364.96534375,"end":1367.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1367.6653437500001,"end":1369.6903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1370.0784687500002,"end":1372.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1372.9134687500002,"end":1375.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1375.93409375,"end":1377.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1378.98846875,"end":1382.4647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1382.93721875,"end":1384.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1385.04659375,"end":1385.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1386.2278437500001,"end":1387.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1388.57346875,"end":1392.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1393.1465937500002,"end":1396.3359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1396.5215937500002,"end":1402.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1402.1747187500002,"end":1414.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1414.5272187500002,"end":1423.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1423.7747187500001,"end":1425.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1425.98534375,"end":1428.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1428.8709687500002,"end":1430.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1431.5203437500002,"end":1437.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1436.5997187500002,"end":1441.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1441.03784375,"end":1442.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1443.4847187500002,"end":1444.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1446.5728437500002,"end":1447.2984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1448.05784375,"end":1449.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1451.73659375,"end":1453.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1454.94284375,"end":1455.1790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1456.1578437500002,"end":1458.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1458.5372187500002,"end":1458.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1458.62159375,"end":1459.9378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1460.9672187500003,"end":1462.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1462.9247187500002,"end":1468.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1467.05909375,"end":1469.2190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1468.2740937500002,"end":1468.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1470.0459687500002,"end":1471.9190937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1471.0753437500002,"end":1473.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1473.65721875,"end":1474.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1475.04096875,"end":1476.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1476.6778437500002,"end":1479.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1480.6434687500002,"end":1482.8709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1481.67284375,"end":1487.3597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1487.3934687500002,"end":1495.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1494.5315937500002,"end":1495.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1496.30346875,"end":1499.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1503.6947187500002,"end":1505.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1505.3990937500002,"end":1505.9559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1506.1922187500002,"end":1508.8753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1506.25971875,"end":1507.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1511.2378437500001,"end":1511.5584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1512.2165937500001,"end":1514.6465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1515.3384687500002,"end":1520.5528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1516.9415937500003,"end":1517.0428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1517.0428437500002,"end":1517.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1517.97096875,"end":1520.4515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1520.62034375,"end":1520.8565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1525.69971875,"end":1525.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1525.96971875,"end":1528.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1532.2640937500003,"end":1533.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1534.7109687500001,"end":1536.8878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1536.9722187500001,"end":1538.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1539.8578437500003,"end":1540.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1541.56221875,"end":1543.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1544.7515937500002,"end":1545.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1546.2872187500002,"end":1549.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1550.3878437500002,"end":1550.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1551.5015937500002,"end":1553.0372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1553.5772187500002,"end":1555.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1556.0915937500001,"end":1557.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1558.8253437500002,"end":1560.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1560.9178437500002,"end":1563.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1564.36034375,"end":1566.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1566.5203437500002,"end":1567.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1568.2078437500002,"end":1569.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1570.68846875,"end":1570.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1571.09346875,"end":1579.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1579.69971875,"end":1581.8428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1582.36596875,"end":1583.6822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1584.3909687500002,"end":1585.7915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1586.43284375,"end":1586.9728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1587.1753437500001,"end":1588.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1589.52096875,"end":1591.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1592.2715937500002,"end":1592.8622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1593.87471875,"end":1596.2034687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1596.43971875,"end":1597.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1598.2284687500003,"end":1599.3084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1600.23659375,"end":1602.2953437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1602.4978437500001,"end":1603.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1603.86471875,"end":1605.6197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1605.97409375,"end":1610.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1611.7959687500002,"end":1613.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1613.8209687500002,"end":1615.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1615.9303437500002,"end":1616.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1616.8584687500002,"end":1621.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1622.0559687500001,"end":1626.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1627.1859687500003,"end":1628.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1629.4472187500003,"end":1630.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1631.1009687500002,"end":1633.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1634.12159375,"end":1635.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1636.7540937500003,"end":1638.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1639.1165937500002,"end":1641.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1642.2384687500003,"end":1643.4534687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1644.07784375,"end":1644.3309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1644.7359687500002,"end":1647.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1648.9547187500002,"end":1651.6040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1652.1609687500002,"end":1653.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1653.8990937500002,"end":1654.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1655.1815937500003,"end":1655.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1656.3797187500002,"end":1657.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1658.42159375,"end":1659.0965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1659.5353437500003,"end":1661.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1662.5390937500001,"end":1664.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1664.5978437500003,"end":1666.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1666.58909375,"end":1669.7784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1670.5040937500003,"end":1671.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1672.5459687500002,"end":1674.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1674.31784375,"end":1676.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1677.0684687500002,"end":1677.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1677.7772187500002,"end":1680.4603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1680.5953437500002,"end":1681.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1682.2490937500002,"end":1683.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1684.7128437500003,"end":1685.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1686.83909375,"end":1688.0540937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1688.8472187500001,"end":1690.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1690.21409375,"end":1691.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1691.8678437500002,"end":1693.2347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1693.3528437500001,"end":1695.2597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1696.5759687500001,"end":1698.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1699.1072187500001,"end":1701.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1701.7734687500001,"end":1705.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1707.1397187500002,"end":1708.3378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1709.77221875,"end":1711.4090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1711.99971875,"end":1712.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1713.4509687500001,"end":1715.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1716.5390937500001,"end":1717.5515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1717.9565937500001,"end":1722.9009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1723.4915937500002,"end":1727.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1728.6890937500002,"end":1731.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1732.1822187500002,"end":1733.7347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1733.80221875,"end":1734.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1735.2028437500003,"end":1735.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1736.21534375,"end":1737.7172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1738.59471875,"end":1740.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1740.85596875,"end":1742.1890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1743.0497187500002,"end":1743.7753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1744.7034687500002,"end":1745.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1746.4247187500002,"end":1748.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1749.3440937500002,"end":1751.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1752.11159375,"end":1754.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1754.6934687500002,"end":1756.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1757.5453437500003,"end":1758.6253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1759.26659375,"end":1760.4984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1760.6165937500002,"end":1761.7809687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1762.1015937500001,"end":1763.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1764.2109687500001,"end":1765.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1766.8434687500003,"end":1767.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1768.2272187500002,"end":1769.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1769.2903437500001,"end":1771.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1771.0622187500003,"end":1772.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1772.61471875,"end":1773.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1774.16721875,"end":1775.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1775.5172187500002,"end":1776.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1777.0359687500002,"end":1777.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1777.7953437500003,"end":1783.2797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1783.58346875,"end":1784.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1784.4778437500001,"end":1786.0640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1787.5153437500003,"end":1787.9203437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1788.2915937500002,"end":1790.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1791.7172187500003,"end":1793.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1794.2484687500003,"end":1797.2859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1797.4715937500002,"end":1802.6522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1808.05221875,"end":1810.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1811.00534375,"end":1811.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1811.9165937500002,"end":1813.3509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1813.68846875,"end":1816.1690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1816.6078437500003,"end":1823.8978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1824.4209687500002,"end":1826.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1826.8509687500002,"end":1829.9390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1830.4790937500002,"end":1832.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1833.24659375,"end":1839.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1839.57471875,"end":1841.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1842.0047187500002,"end":1844.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1845.3965937500002,"end":1847.1347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1847.5059687500002,"end":1850.7628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1851.2859687500002,"end":1853.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1853.7497187500003,"end":1856.5340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1856.71971875,"end":1865.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1865.6634687500002,"end":1869.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1869.4265937500002,"end":1873.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1874.1853437500001,"end":1876.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1876.6659687500003,"end":1934.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1935.34034375,"end":1939.6772187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1940.0315937500002,"end":1942.0228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1942.09034375,"end":1946.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1946.8153437500002,"end":1956.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1956.7547187500002,"end":1957.3453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1957.4465937500001,"end":1967.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1968.80346875,"end":1981.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1982.3203437500001,"end":1982.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1983.28221875,"end":1988.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1988.5978437500003,"end":1989.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1990.2684687500002,"end":1992.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1992.5972187500001,"end":1995.6347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1995.93846875,"end":1996.7315937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1998.06471875,"end":2018.8040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2019.0234687500001,"end":2022.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2022.5503437500001,"end":2023.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2023.8159687500001,"end":2066.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2066.8640937500004,"end":2067.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2068.70346875,"end":2069.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2071.6397187500006,"end":2097.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2097.86346875,"end":2099.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2100.27659375,"end":2100.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2101.0865937500002,"end":2126.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2128.98096875,"end":2131.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2131.5290937500004,"end":2137.9922187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2138.32971875,"end":2140.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2141.0465937500003,"end":2146.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2146.4803437500004,"end":2153.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2153.66909375,"end":2156.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2157.31409375,"end":2158.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2159.6765937500004,"end":2162.7478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2163.1022187500002,"end":2165.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2166.22409375,"end":2169.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2170.1053437500004,"end":2175.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2176.1972187500005,"end":2181.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2181.69846875,"end":2181.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2182.35659375,"end":2183.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2184.31409375,"end":2189.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2190.13596875,"end":2191.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2192.1103437500005,"end":2193.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2194.2872187500006,"end":2197.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2198.23596875,"end":2200.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2200.68284375,"end":2210.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2210.68971875,"end":2211.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2211.2803437500006,"end":2214.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2214.68909375,"end":2217.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2217.8447187500005,"end":2221.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2221.30409375,"end":2221.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2222.0634687500005,"end":2222.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2223.10971875,"end":2226.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2226.85596875,"end":2229.2859687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2229.60659375,"end":2230.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2230.6022187500002,"end":2232.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2233.06596875,"end":2236.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2237.1328437500006,"end":2238.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2239.2928437500004,"end":2243.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2243.2753437500005,"end":2244.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2244.6590937500005,"end":2245.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2246.00909375,"end":2246.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2247.0722187500005,"end":2248.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2248.96221875,"end":2256.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2256.3365937500002,"end":2263.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2265.11159375,"end":2266.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2268.18284375,"end":2269.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2270.19096875,"end":2271.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2274.3590937500003,"end":2275.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2275.7428437500002,"end":2276.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2277.17721875,"end":2278.1559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2279.0165937500005,"end":2280.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2282.22284375,"end":2283.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2284.83846875,"end":2285.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2286.44159375,"end":2288.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2288.8209687500002,"end":2291.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2292.53346875,"end":2293.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2293.68096875,"end":2295.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2296.70159375,"end":2298.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2298.9122187500006,"end":2300.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2301.10596875,"end":2301.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2301.93284375,"end":2302.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2303.19846875,"end":2304.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2305.61159375,"end":2307.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2308.2272187500002,"end":2309.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2310.60659375,"end":2312.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2313.03659375,"end":2314.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2315.5340937500005,"end":2315.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2316.04034375,"end":2319.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2319.55034375,"end":2321.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2322.30096875,"end":2324.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2324.91659375,"end":2326.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2326.95846875,"end":2329.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2329.7090937500006,"end":2332.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2333.0165937500005,"end":2335.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2336.76284375,"end":2337.3028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2337.67409375,"end":2339.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2339.5134687500004,"end":2342.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2342.8209687500002,"end":2344.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2344.96409375,"end":2346.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2347.07346875,"end":2347.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2347.61346875,"end":2349.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2349.84096875,"end":2350.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2350.9209687500006,"end":2351.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2352.13596875,"end":2353.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2353.53659375,"end":2354.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2354.2790937500004,"end":2358.0759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2358.5653437500005,"end":2359.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2362.4297187500006,"end":2363.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2364.8934687500005,"end":2395.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2394.3740937500006,"end":2394.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2395.5553437500002,"end":2399.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2399.33534375,"end":2400.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2401.02284375,"end":2418.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2418.1003437500003,"end":2422.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2423.3653437500006,"end":2430.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2430.48659375,"end":2433.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2434.6209687500004,"end":2440.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2440.4597187500003,"end":2442.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2444.71221875,"end":2445.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2445.4040937500004,"end":2448.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2449.30221875,"end":2449.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2450.51721875,"end":2454.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2455.3603437500005,"end":2459.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2460.1190937500005,"end":2461.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2472.3028437500006,"end":2472.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2475.74534375,"end":2476.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2476.79159375,"end":2478.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2478.29346875,"end":2480.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2480.9765937500006,"end":2482.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2483.28846875,"end":2484.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2485.53284375,"end":2487.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2488.1315937500003,"end":2489.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2491.2872187500006,"end":2492.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2493.2615937500004,"end":2493.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2494.6622187500006,"end":2495.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2496.9403437500005,"end":2498.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2497.15971875,"end":2499.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2499.8428437500006,"end":2499.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2499.85971875,"end":2502.2390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2499.9440937500003,"end":2501.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2501.3447187500005,"end":2501.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2502.4922187500006,"end":2502.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2503.5722187500005,"end":2505.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2505.41159375,"end":2508.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2508.60096875,"end":2509.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2510.45721875,"end":2514.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2515.7559687500006,"end":2517.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2517.6122187500005,"end":2519.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2519.7215937500005,"end":2523.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2524.68284375,"end":2525.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2525.29034375,"end":2525.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2525.9822187500004,"end":2526.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2526.67409375,"end":2527.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2528.0915937500004,"end":2529.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2533.13721875,"end":2540.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2540.12346875,"end":2544.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2541.15284375,"end":2543.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2543.73471875,"end":2552.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2544.88221875,"end":2547.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2553.79221875,"end":2556.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2558.75346875,"end":2560.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2561.09909375,"end":2561.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2561.14971875,"end":2561.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2561.20034375,"end":2561.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2561.21721875,"end":2561.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2561.4872187500005,"end":2562.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2561.57159375,"end":2561.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2561.9765937500006,"end":2564.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2565.19971875,"end":2570.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2569.2497187500003,"end":2570.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2570.6334687500002,"end":2570.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2570.8190937500003,"end":2570.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2570.8865937500004,"end":2576.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2577.55221875,"end":2594.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2594.6465937500006,"end":2605.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2605.7334687500006,"end":2615.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2616.11159375,"end":2637.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2644.2422187500006,"end":2646.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2647.0603437500004,"end":2657.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2657.89409375,"end":2665.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2666.1797187500006,"end":2666.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2666.19659375,"end":2686.8515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2687.1384687500004,"end":2704.6378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2705.4815937500007,"end":2706.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2707.06784375,"end":2707.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2707.1015937500006,"end":2707.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2707.6922187500004,"end":2710.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2713.2947187500004,"end":2733.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2733.52784375,"end":2737.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2737.2403437500006,"end":2740.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2742.13409375,"end":2747.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2748.34409375,"end":2748.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2750.09909375,"end":2754.7059687500005}],"whisperx":[{"start":18.082,"end":29.774,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等21人擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21"},{"start":37.352,"end":52.944,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等21人擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等21人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、"},{"start":53.985,"end":79.468,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴"},{"start":86.788,"end":115.31,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院經濟委員會報告併案審查行政院審查行政院審查行政院審查行政院審查行政院"},{"start":116.493,"end":142.946,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等17人分別擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴"},{"start":160.887,"end":169.081,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等19人擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等19人擬具、「野生動物保育法部分條文修正草案》、委員郭昱晴等19"},{"start":173.393,"end":186.02,"text":"好 包委會我們現在開始來進行這個野保法的協商那我想我先還是先介紹一下我們先今天現在在場的委員們有這個張祺凱委員這個"},{"start":191.915,"end":194.636,"text":"陳婷菲委員、蔡易瑜委員、伍麗華委員、鄭天財委員部會首長陳部長、原民會王處長"},{"start":208.342,"end":231.266,"text":"教育部有兩個專委紀賢養紀專委跟廖雙慶廖專委海委會有羅敬明組長法務部林參事謝謝那我們現在就好那我們是不是請這個議事人員先宣讀一下上次的這個"},{"start":238.4,"end":266.593,"text":"來 那我再跟委員會報告一下我們上一次的審查結論保留了四個條文分別是第19條、第21條、第21條之一及第51條之一還有保留一項附帶決議那這幾個條文要交付黨團協商那所以我們今天就從這幾個保留的條文的部分先來進行協商那首先我們先從第19條開始來 那個農業部的代表要再說明嗎"},{"start":277.622,"end":278.383,"text":"主席跟各位委員"},{"start":279.281,"end":300.088,"text":"那我們針對上一次被保留的這個第19條跟21條我們說明一下那19的部分我們是針對這個金屬售甲是全面的禁用那另外呢也接受委員的建議納入原本的這個炸藥跟爆裂物的這個使用"},{"start":300.908,"end":315.831,"text":"那另外呢還有一個就是所謂的金屬套索我們是希望說金屬套索他還是有在食物上農民或者原住民族的獵人他會需要那但是我們也考量到說他"},{"start":317.132,"end":317.633,"text":"各委員請問對於這個19條的內容"},{"start":345.155,"end":346.204,"text":"文字上大家有沒有什麼意見?"},{"start":354.858,"end":383.195,"text":"我跟大家再補充說明一下就是因為我們上次討論的時候大家對於售假的部分其實是有兩派不同的意見跟看法那我們有部分的委員認為應該要全面禁用金屬套索但是我們其實也考量到原住民族的這個傳統狩獵跟農民的防治受害其實某個程度上都還是有這一些使用金屬套索的需求"},{"start":383.755,"end":412.862,"text":"但是農業部現在在推廣改良式的改良式的售甲今天他們也特別改良式的金屬套索所以今天也特別把這個食品也帶來到現場讓各位委員能夠清楚的了解所以我想兼具兩者不同的這個立場是不是我們建議維持這個行政院原來的條文內容請問各位委員"},{"start":414.147,"end":426.669,"text":"可以接受嗎?接受可以喔?可以好 謝謝 謝謝各位委員的支持那我們第19條就按照行政院的提案條文通過好 來接下來"},{"start":430.326,"end":455.024,"text":"好 接下來我們要討論第21條 那農業部農業部還有建議的條文嗎我們 第21條的部分 算是經過委員大家的討論我們接受委員的意見 就是有關於第一項的部分 排除的部分第19條第一項 本來是第一款也排除但是我們現在認為第一項的那個炸藥 炸藥跟其他的爆裂物"},{"start":455.725,"end":458.826,"text":"第21條以及第21條之一就是款次的調整文字上做一些調整請問大家有沒有意見"},{"start":486.601,"end":486.621,"text":"先討論21條"},{"start":490.919,"end":518.678,"text":"21條對啊21條之一因為你剛剛有提到21條字兩個字是一樣的啦就是我們現在把那個炸藥把它列為禁止的項目之一所以它的那個條次款項是做一些調整啦就是說我們在緊急列補的需要的時候我們也不可以使用炸藥所以現在就會排除說不能第一款也不能用所以炸藥是全面禁用不管是緊急的狀況也不可以使用這是第21條的規定以上"},{"start":522.46,"end":524.441,"text":"好 那就照農業部提供的建議條文修正通過好不好"},{"start":550.735,"end":566.631,"text":"我們需要再讀一次21條的修正文字是不是議事人員讀一下好不好第21條第一項野生動物有下列情形之一者得予以獵殺或"},{"start":568.223,"end":582.434,"text":"得益略補或宰殺不受第17條第1項、第18條第1項及第19條第1項第2款至第6款規定之限制但保育類野生動物除情況緊急外應先報請主管機關處理"},{"start":583.993,"end":609.242,"text":"一、有危及公共安全或人類性命之虞二、危害農林作物家禽家畜或水產養殖三、傳播疾病或病蟲害四、有妨害航空安全之虞五、其他經主管機關核轉制情形保育類野生動物有危害農林作物家禽家畜或水產養殖在緊急情況下未及報請主管機關處理者得益"},{"start":609.946,"end":621.315,"text":"主管機關核定致人道方式予以獵捕或宰殺以防制危害宣讀完畢好來請問各位委員第21條我們是不是就照"},{"start":622.957,"end":642.427,"text":"農業部建議的條文文字修正通過好嗎?好,謝謝來接下來我們看第21條之一那21條之一也是因為之前有第19條第一項的這個所列的方法所以我們也是就文字上去做一些調整我特別請議事人員唸一下"},{"start":662.792,"end":680.945,"text":"第21條之一,臺灣原住民族基於其傳統文化既宜或非營利自用而有獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物之必要者不受第17條第1項、第18條第1項及第19條第1項第2款至第2款規定之限制宣讀完畢"},{"start":687.383,"end":688.525,"text":"前項裂骨或被查"},{"start":691.977,"end":720.103,"text":"第二項前項獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物之行為應經主管機關核准或被查其申請核准或被查之情形得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之必要情形申請程序應檢附文件獵捕方式獵捕動物之種類數量獵捕期間區域管理及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關會同中央原住民族主管機關定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":721.524,"end":728.104,"text":"好來請問各位委員第21條之一我們的文字是不是照這樣修正通過伍麗華委員"},{"start":730.845,"end":758.391,"text":"好 我也說明一下因為這一次的修法其實是為了回應司法院大法官對於獵人王光祿案作出的釋字803號解釋所以在第21條之一就增列了院版也有增列就是非營利自用的要件納入了原住民的獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物的除罪化範圍"},{"start":760.031,"end":778.137,"text":"改採被查制原住民獵捕野生動物以行政處罰取代刑罰我想這個部分我在上個會期就已經有做過提案這個也溝通過我們基於大法官解釋他是對原住民狩獵權的維護"},{"start":779.838,"end":798.455,"text":"那也基於民間社會提倡的人道考量對於全面禁用售甲本席後來是予以尊重但是既然大法官他做出解釋那我們的修法的內容也符合他的解釋意旨所以呢就是以這個行政法替代刑法的部分"},{"start":799.136,"end":826.197,"text":"我覺得這個條文的文字修正我不堅持可是我就是要確保在法令落實的操作過程就跟過去的獵槍一樣不會因為法條它創造的一個模糊的空間讓檢察官跟法官到時候會有不同的解釋所以呢我很堅持就是在第21條之一原住民只要是基於傳統文化、技藝或非營利自用而獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物不管"},{"start":827.498,"end":842.623,"text":"列具的類別或者是野生動物的類別都不要用刑罰處罰然後在第二項訂定原住民獵捕野生動物所應遵循的辦法所以這個部分我一定要再次的強調 謝謝鄭天財委員這個21條 現行的21條之一"},{"start":853.064,"end":874.292,"text":"有幾個部分第一個就是說這個過去只有現行的條文只有寫傳統文化還有技藝這兩個部分那因為原住民族基本法在94年2月5號公布施行之後這個因為一直沒有修雖然我們在第八屆第九屆"},{"start":876.253,"end":886.468,"text":"第十屆一直有提案但是一直沒有通過所以我在105年的時候就透過相關的解釋"},{"start":891.553,"end":916.625,"text":"解釋已經106年就解釋包含了研究法的所謂的非營利自用所以這個部分事實上在106年之後都已經有以非營利自用就可以了這是第一個第二個現在因為過去之前也提到這個"},{"start":918.566,"end":942.121,"text":"所有的案都要經過核准是不合理的所以有改為備查你們現在核准跟備查要對列在這個條文裡面那現在就是你的執法一定要考驗到實際的需求因為我們在原鄉你還要到還要下鄉下山還要下山給你核准事實上就是勞民傷財這第二個"},{"start":946.004,"end":953.856,"text":"現在就是文字的統一性如果我們看後面的條文包括其他的法律的條文"},{"start":956.011,"end":981.726,"text":"因為當初修正的時候沒有單獨因為是單獨接條之前的修正所以我們我建議就是說那個臺灣原住民族那個臺灣兩個字可以刪除我們後面的條文也只有寫原住民族了我們其他的法律條文也都是只有寫原住民族比如說原住民族基本法沒有寫臺灣原住民族基本法原住民族委員會也沒有寫臺灣原住民族"},{"start":982.817,"end":984.038,"text":"行政單位有什麼意見?"},{"start":1005.404,"end":1032.185,"text":"好 剛剛吳委員的這個提案我們其實已經在待會會討論到51條51之1處理了那鄭天財委員的這個建議呢我們就遵照辦理我們把台灣兩個字刪除好 來 法務部有沒有意見51條之1就是只有寫原住民之類的好"},{"start":1033.972,"end":1061.001,"text":"來那基於法律的一致性來第21條之一我們的這個臺灣兩個字把它刪除所以就是一樣都是寫原住民族等等好來那後面的這個修正的文字是不是就照原來的提案通過好嗎照那個農業部的對不起農業部的修正建議條文通過好謝謝來接下來我們"},{"start":1063.652,"end":1079.562,"text":"謝謝我們要討論第25條那因為這個第25條是由洪孟凱委員等提案進覆二讀那並沒有在委員會裡頭有過討論所以我們現在也把它放進來討論那個洪孟凱委員在現場是不是請洪委員謝謝感謝周委"},{"start":1080.903,"end":1101.089,"text":"這個部分雖然現行條文是已經有說要經中央主管機關同意但是過去到現在我們也看到就是說有輸入所謂的這個野生動物的時候輸入保育類野生動物跟相關製品的時候也有發生一些爭議那這樣爭議的部分的情況下其實還是會造成說到底中央主管機關的這個"},{"start":1103.71,"end":1123.721,"text":"打官的部分夠不夠嚴謹以及充分所以說我才會在這邊是講是說他應該具有環境教育機構的資格並且經中央主管機關同意因為其主要在於是保育類野生動物保育類野生動物他不是一般動物而已是保育類野生動物那再加上"},{"start":1124.401,"end":1145.184,"text":"雖然說這個行政部門有講到是說是這一些機關可能會有所謂的這個學術交流等等的部分但是就保育類、野生動物是不是有那麼頻繁的需要做這樣的一個輸入輸出的一個狀況我想這也是值得商榷那所以是不是大家可以研究的或是說主管機關是能夠在我們相關"},{"start":1146.025,"end":1154.654,"text":"立法說明還是怎麼樣能夠有一些比較加緊、嚴謹不要再讓過去有發生的一些弊端的一個狀況再發生好不好"},{"start":1156.763,"end":1179.653,"text":"請從業部說明跟委員報告一下就是說這次委員建議加了所謂環境教育機構的資格那就我們現在去查我們目前該等的這些大專院校的這些研究機構的部分大部分都不是屬於環境教育機構所以基本上如果要把它加上這樣的一個要件可能就"},{"start":1180.533,"end":1206.762,"text":"這個目的其實最主要是因為要所謂的學術交流的一個目的而來的啦所以我們在目前輸入的時候其實我們都還會做相當的審核而且它要基於學術教育等公共目的及用途我們才會進入很嚴格的審查它才可以輸入所以我們建議是不是還是維持目前我們的審查機制維持現在的現行條文以上"},{"start":1210.112,"end":1223.045,"text":"請問其他委員有沒有意見陳婷菲委員因為我想我們農業部也做了很清楚的說明所以我覺得還是維持我們原來的行政院版本的建議條文"},{"start":1226.529,"end":1241.461,"text":"主席我可不可以稍微補充一下就是剛才洪委員所提到的那當然增加了那個環境教育資格會造成更多的一個制度的審查但是因為我們是要經中央主管機關同意嘛所以我們"},{"start":1242.882,"end":1269.729,"text":"在中央主管機關同意的這個過程也許在立法說明我們可以再做一些說明就是說我要去同意他的時候應該他具備什麼樣的一個資格條件可以在立法說明去說明說以後中央主管機關同意的時候是基於什麼樣的原則這樣的話就是在原條不改在我們在立法說明去做一些調整不然如果實務寫這些應具教育機構資格那就是很明定的時候那就會造成一些困擾以上"},{"start":1272.486,"end":1287.219,"text":"好 主席部長剛剛講的部分也是因為我們都希望的是說要加強這個不要說有這個弊端的一個產生那保育的野生動物其實它輸入進出本來就已經有一定的一個嚴謹性"},{"start":1288.28,"end":1317.193,"text":"那所以說這樣子的一個那個文字的部分是不是能夠請同仁這邊給我稍微看一下那如果說讓我看過我覺得OK的話其實這一條我沒有那麼堅持好不好就依照現行條文但是你的這個文字要怎麼樣未來比較明確的嚴謹的一個這個中央主管機關審查的一個過程或說中央主管機關同意的一個方向你至少讓我知道可以嗎那你們這另外另外有一個"},{"start":1319.175,"end":1343.984,"text":"我們就文字不改啦條文不改然後那個維持現行條文那有一些補充說明的部分是不是再送給洪文凱委員好嗎好來請問各位委員有沒有其他意見沒有好沒有的話那我們洪文凱委員的提案我們就維持現行條文就不予修正好接下來我們看第51條之一有"},{"start":1347.549,"end":1374.766,"text":"現在還有另外兩個有張祺凱委員跟本席的修正動議是不是張委員要先補充說明一下?謝謝我看了行政院版跟我們很多委員的提案內容大致上大同小異啦我今天提到是增加說基於傳統文化基於或者是這個非營利的自用這個類譜宰殺或者非利用野生動物這違反一第二十條之一"},{"start":1375.97,"end":1400.669,"text":"第二項鎖定在辦法裡面的這個有關申請核准或者是被查這個情形得獵捕、宰殺或者利用保育類野生動物之必要的情形獵捕方式、獵捕動物之種類、數量獵捕期間、契約或者管理之規定則依照下面來處罰第一個是屬於保育類動物的處新台幣2萬以上、10萬以下"},{"start":1402.27,"end":1430.123,"text":"第二,屬一般野生動物的儲新台幣1000元以上、1萬元以下裡面有一個很重要的條文就是第一次首次違反前項規定者不罰然後因為失犯第一項跟第一款之行為者儲新台幣5000元以上、2萬元以下那我看得起那很多委員的都是比較類似的這個條文應該增一些不大這是第一個,然後第二個是那個抱歉剛剛高進都提了一個什麼修正動議我是幫他墊還是送上去就好"},{"start":1431.584,"end":1459.813,"text":"上內容都大同小異啦我看那個雅琳的還有那個伍麗華他們的整個提案都差不多嘛這可以讓我們議事人員看一下好不好因為現在突然送上來我們都還沒看到文字內容高經的不是我的案子本來就列在裡面啊來那個那個農業部你們有手上有嗎高經的還是你說的是高高經的張祺凱委員的有嗎有啦我的有啊在裡面啊"},{"start":1461.021,"end":1479.03,"text":"本來就有 本來就已經調回所以你 所以現在不是高金委員是您用您的名字提案就對了 對對對對阿高金這個怎麼辦他要我幫他 我就送他高金這個怎麼辦阿不是你剛剛就說明了嗎對對嘿說明的是我的喔對啊 我就跟你說這裡沒有張其凱的案阿"},{"start":1480.697,"end":1507.984,"text":"你現在說明的是張吉凱提案嗎?沒關係,我說的是我跟他一起連署的案啦那高津的案子就送上來一起討論就好啦好不好,沒事,OK,謝謝不是啦,你現在是高津有另外一個案跟你有另外...你的案跟高津的案是兩個不同的案還是高津是用你的名字去提案?是兩個案,是兩個案你看嘛,他講的是兩個案啦可是我現在手頭上只有一個案啊好,用高津這個討論好了,好不好好,OK好,來,那就用高津委員的提案討論齁"},{"start":1512.277,"end":1538.45,"text":"呃 高金委員的提案應該是那個他就加了首次不法啦 那個那個 農業部要不要好 那你要先講嗎 好 來 鄭天財委員好 這個這是一個重要的條文 第51條之一第一個"},{"start":1542.502,"end":1569.317,"text":"這個我們看這個現在就是農業部所提的建議的條文跟現行的條文有很大的差別那我的第一個就是說那個第八款農業部建議的條文的那個第八款我是建議刪除了為什麼呢如果我們回到那個"},{"start":1572.075,"end":1597.185,"text":"我把它講清楚就是使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款那個第8款如果我們看這個19條19條已經有變動那以現在的19條有變動這第一個有變動了第二個從第一款第19條的第一款第一款一定是"},{"start":1598.297,"end":1627.423,"text":"最嚴重的嘛對不對一直到後面第七款第八款其他有授權給你們的一定是比較輕微的很嚴重的都已經在第一款、第二款、第三款、第四款這是一個部分嘛所以我是建議那個第51條之一這邊所提到使用第19條第一項那個第八款可以刪除這是第一個第二個"},{"start":1629.517,"end":1652.909,"text":"第2個為什麼還是要首次違反者不罰是因為我們也做了不同的修正比如說售假大家過去以前使用售假習慣了因為原來的條文21條所有第19條的各款第一項各款"},{"start":1654.139,"end":1683.047,"text":"當初都可以啊原住民啊現行條文是這樣啊那你現在第19條也做了修正了過去我們是不能過去可以用售假有幾個例子那現在新的條文是不能了所以還是要先導還是要先導所以還是要有首次不法這是第二個部分要請希望農業部能夠接受"},{"start":1684.755,"end":1712.228,"text":"第三個部分你們現在把它針對了這個保育類保育類跟非保育類一般類這個屬保育類的部分當然大法官的那個803號解釋你們不能只看一部分還要看哪個部分呢他這裡面有提到一句話"},{"start":1713.636,"end":1741.912,"text":"除有特殊例外他前面食物上啊食物上獵捕野生動物你自己的那個說明喔那邊食物上獵捕野生動物雖無法預知所獵捕到之野生動物是一般類還是保育類這是事實沒有錯對不對所以呢既然無法預知啊既然是無法預知然後大法官"},{"start":1743.326,"end":1764.493,"text":"的解釋文也提到除有特殊情形外所以我們考慮到這個部分如果你要去分保育類跟一般類的話我的建議就是第一款的部分屬保育類、野生動物這個部分加兩個字"},{"start":1766.909,"end":1787.573,"text":"民資屬保育類野生動物加個民資就符合這個大法官的一個憲判的一個解釋所以這個部分是一個部分所以在這樣的一個情形之下當然這個"},{"start":1791.778,"end":1802.47,"text":"如果可以加明資的話就更符合因為這裡面本來就有寫除有特殊例外這用詞是大法官的一個用詞以上"},{"start":1808.66,"end":1829.127,"text":"吳麗華委員發言完之後我們請農業部回應謝謝主席在第51條之一剛才署長有講他是去處理如果原住民違反第21條之一第二項的這個鎖定的辦法的時候應該要受到行政法的一個條款"},{"start":1830.547,"end":1850.584,"text":"那但是如果這一次修正之後前面的其他條文如果有涉及到原住民獵捕野生動物的限制內容例如使用獸甲等等那我這邊是主張說都應該要在本條當中明確處理就是寫清楚以行政法處罰即可"},{"start":1851.385,"end":1874.825,"text":"所以在這樣的原則之下呢我的建議修正文字就把原住民族基於其傳統文化、技藝或非營利自用獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物加上使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款鎖定禁止之方式或違反第21條之一第二項"},{"start":1876.747,"end":1890.581,"text":"增加鎖定辦法中有關申請核准或被查之情形、得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之必要情形、獵捕方式、獵捕動物之種類、數量"},{"start":1892.483,"end":1907.088,"text":"列補期間區域或管理之規定者一下列規定處罰就增定一屬保育類野生動物處新台幣2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還不適用第41條之規定"},{"start":1909.069,"end":1934.359,"text":"二、署一般類野生動物處新台幣1000元以上、1萬元以下罰款增加不適用第49條第一項第二款之規定因為這個條文從上個會期其實跟很多的委員還有我們的農業部溝通過很多次應該是沒有什麼問題那也在這邊很謝謝有這樣的共識"},{"start":1935.419,"end":1956.189,"text":"那另外針對剛才的那個首次我這個地方是建議就是定義不太明確到底這個首次什麼首次因為有很多的條款所以這個部分可能需要再做更清楚的定義要不然還是會落到我剛才所講的就是我們現在就是要確保"},{"start":1956.849,"end":1979.525,"text":"所以我們不希望因為我們法條所創造的模糊空間到時候又讓檢察官、法官有不同的解釋我希望這個部分要注意以上 謝謝好 來 那個我是不是農業部要先說明還是法務部就針對兩個問題一個是首次不罰的文字上是不是規定夠明確第二個是剛剛這個鄭天財委員提到的"},{"start":1982.389,"end":1995.404,"text":"在後面要加明知屬保育類動物或者是明知屬一般類野生動物我不知道法律用語上可以這樣寫嗎這個待會兒可能法務部要提供一下專一解賴農業部"},{"start":1998.323,"end":2018.316,"text":"跟各位委員報告一下對於那個首次違反者不罰因為這是現行條文在執行上以前都不會有問題為什麼因為首次不罰是指那個行為人要被處罰的那個人用這個人來看所以這個人他第一次違反這個規定才會被罰所以在認定上他不會有太大的困難"},{"start":2019.537,"end":2032.67,"text":"不會把你的手勢當成我的手勢所以不會有問題這個是目前執行上的一個說明那另外剛剛委員在講說要把第八管排除那我要先說明這一條的罰則它是因應21條之一來的"},{"start":2038.135,"end":2064.212,"text":"21條之一要回到21條之一去看21條之一它只有排除第二款到第六款所以第一款、第七款、第八款這三款是沒有排除的所以它沒有排除所以你違反的話就要以51條之一來做處罰所以如果委員認為第八款不該放進來那可能要回頭處理21條之一"},{"start":2066.834,"end":2068.942,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具、委員"},{"start":2071.71,"end":2098.765,"text":"因為21條之一他的義務條文是在21條之一所以原住民基於傳統文化記憶或非營利自用他獵捕宰殺動物是不可以使用經中央主管機關公告的方式公告禁止的方法所以他一旦違反了這一條的規定他的處罰就會回到51條之一就處刑政法然後就不適用刑法的規定那以上做個說明"},{"start":2101.2,"end":2125.855,"text":"好來簡單說就是說第50條之一其實是對應第21條之一我們是對應它所產生的罰則所以剛剛第21條之一我們已經那個文字修正通過所以第51條之一的這個罰則的部分對應上面我想是不是就比照前面第21條之一的那個罰則的部分那那個法務部可不可以補充說明一下剛剛的兩個"},{"start":2129.588,"end":2158.468,"text":"主席好、各位委員大家好關於剛才幾位委員所提的一些疑問在這邊說明第一問題就是說關於首次的認定現行法本來在現行法裡面就已經有規定首次不罰的規定了所以這個在主管機關來講的話要認定首次應該不是太大的問題這個法已經施行一段時間了然後第二個就是"},{"start":2159.708,"end":2160.569,"text":"加重了主管機關或檢察機關的舉證責任"},{"start":2182.418,"end":2209.979,"text":"就是說在未來在執法的過程當中要如何去舉證證明說他明明知道這個是一個保育類野生動物這個可能會有事實上的困難因為我們在捕獵的過程當中比方說他用陷阱的話我不可能預先知道我會捕獲什麼東西或者是他在很遠的距離用獵槍來瞄準那他也不一定能夠判斷說我要打的對象就是保育類"},{"start":2210.74,"end":2238.141,"text":"那也就是說加上明知的這個要件之後的話很可能就是說因為舉證上的困難以至於說這樣子的一個處罰規定很可能就會打不到怕會打不到主管機關所希望達到的政策目的所以加上明知這兩個字的話等於就是說在要件上非常的嚴格了將來在舉證上也就產生了會比較大的困難然後另外就是"},{"start":2239.332,"end":2239.492,"text":"來 鄭天財委員"},{"start":2268.208,"end":2295.398,"text":"那個法務部要聽清楚我的無論是農業部或是大法官先聽清楚都已經講得很清楚實務上獵捕野生動物無法預知所獵捕到的是一般類還是保育類尤其是晚上"},{"start":2297.078,"end":2323.245,"text":"尤其是晚上基本上都是晚上所以大法官才會提到除有特殊例外除有特殊例外所以我才會說這個屬保育類的部分加個名字那個一般類的不用加就是屬保育類的那個部分加個名字兩個字"},{"start":2325.263,"end":2351.24,"text":"那白天我們當然就 你們就認定嘛 他是嘛 他知道嘛那晚上 這個也不是我所創的這個實務上 農業部也是這樣認為事實上也是 晚上本來就看不出來那個眼睛都是看那個動物的眼睛亮了就打了"},{"start":2352.439,"end":2380.78,"text":"所以這個部分在執行上應該不是那麼困難農業部可不可以說明一下我知道委員您在意的是說他獵捕的動物他不會知道是明知那我們是不是回到51條之一的我們這邊的序文我們今天序文他在獵捕宰殺動物的前提這個案子最主要的前半段他違反的是什麼是因為你用售假"},{"start":2386.806,"end":2400.661,"text":"主要的問題是因為他擅自使用那個售假那個售假他用售假他用我們的禁止的方法去獵捕動物只是獵捕的動物是野生動物或保育類野生動物或一般野生動物而有不同"},{"start":2401.201,"end":2422.581,"text":"所以如果委員擔心 那我們是不是在前面那個使用的概念上去寫說他因為基於王長長擅自使用那個第十九條第一項第一款、第七款、第八款所定禁止的方式就是說你的使用是擅自使用 是明知你明知他不可以用 像售假你不可以用 那你一定要去用"},{"start":2423.442,"end":2441.45,"text":"所以他其實不是在講後面的獵捕的動物獵捕動物他重點是在前面你使用什麼方式他處罰是因為你用這個方式去獵捕對我知道可是這個案子在51條之一被罰的是因為你用這種方式所以才會被罰"},{"start":2444.738,"end":2445.918,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":2476.017,"end":2489.224,"text":"講的是前面的部分但是51條不是只有這個部分你後半段你後半段對不對你經過核准或是經過被查"},{"start":2491.311,"end":2512.2,"text":"然後他用獵槍符合啊對不對他符合用獵槍啊他已經核准或者是符合被查的要件的他不小心去獵到保育類動物這是不會罰的只要他通報就不會被罰這邊會處罰的是他沒有經過申請"},{"start":2515.976,"end":2529.179,"text":"等於他就直接去列補然後又去列補的保育類才會進入到剛剛講的這個部分在這一款來處理所以只要是有依法申請的他誤補是不會被罰的"},{"start":2533.226,"end":2556.267,"text":"所以如果照你們這樣的說明這個就符合到剛剛那個鄭天財委員講的大法官的那個解釋嘛好那是不是那個手刺手刺不法手刺不法這個已經這個沒有問題了這沒問題這原條文就有了對好那政委我們是不是就照這個修正的文字本來原條文就有了原條文就有"},{"start":2559.244,"end":2576.345,"text":"首次不拔我們納進去有啊對啊對啊要把它納回來裝回來就對了有啦有啦剛剛有講來那個我們修正的文字是不是請議事人員再念一次好不好我們會加進來修正的文字是不是我請議事人員再念一次好嗎還是我們念一次好 那個農業部念一下"},{"start":2577.868,"end":2605.254,"text":"第一項51條之一第一項原住民族基於其傳統文化、技藝或非營利自用獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款所定禁止之方式或違反第21條之一第二項所定辦法中有關申請核准或被查之情形得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之"},{"start":2605.934,"end":2626.251,"text":"必要情形獵捕方式獵捕動物之種類數量獵捕期間區域或管理之規定者依下列規定處罰但首次違反者不罰一、屬保育類野生動物處清台幣2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還不是用第41條規定二、"},{"start":2628.432,"end":2636.62,"text":"屬一般類野生動物儲新台幣1000元以上、1萬元以下罰還不適用第49條第一項第二款規定"},{"start":2644.258,"end":2664.279,"text":"好來那如果沒有問題我們就文字就照這樣修正通過好不好好那接下來我們要討論附帶決議那目前有這個蔡議員所提的附帶決議但是蔡委員已經同意撤案請問各位委員有沒有意見沒有我們就照案通過那我們還有一個新的是鄭天才委員所提的附帶決議請宣讀"},{"start":2666.221,"end":2689.919,"text":"委員鄭天財所提附帶決議有介於套索等劣具在原住民族傳統文化具有不可替代性未來農業部依據《野生動物保育法》第十九條第一項第八款依法公告其他禁止獵捕野生動物之方法應先會商原住民族委員會後公告此外農業部應會同原住民族"},{"start":2690.379,"end":2709.625,"text":"委員會透過自主狩獵管理輔導團隊及地方原民行政體系競速至原住民族地區辦理說明會將資訊充分傳達部落族人了解宣讀完畢好這個遵照辦理好來那我們就照案通過"},{"start":2713.322,"end":2739.104,"text":"好來那我就唸一下協商結論我們今天的協商結論第19條條文照行政院提案的條文通過第21條21條之一第51條之一條文以及修正動議均照協商條文通過第25條維持現行條文審查會保留附帶決議一項測案然後有新增一個附帶決議"},{"start":2742.442,"end":2746.747,"text":"其餘條文均照審查會審查結果通過,通過新增附帶決議以上"}]}},{"id":"16333","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16333","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685323e8eb5774d58be5f4c1517bf427504a82e37f9ba35fd77ff9f28b4a1ffae0f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:31:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T16:06:00+08:00","duration":27291,"影片長度":"07:34:51","委員發言時間":"08:31:09 - 16:06:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":514.11096875,"end":515.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1793.2022187500002,"end":1793.6915937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1795.7334687500002,"end":1796.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1797.6065937500002,"end":1801.1503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1801.72409375,"end":1805.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1805.7572187500002,"end":1833.1453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1833.3140937500002,"end":1844.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1844.5865937500002,"end":1847.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1848.41721875,"end":1851.9947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1852.2984687500002,"end":1889.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1889.8284687500002,"end":1891.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1891.6340937500001,"end":1898.6034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":1898.90721875,"end":2010.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2011.3622187500002,"end":2033.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2034.0253437500003,"end":2066.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2042.5809687500002,"end":2042.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2052.9928437500002,"end":2053.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2053.1784687500003,"end":2053.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2067.3028437499997,"end":2130.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2132.3222187500005,"end":2139.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2139.0722187500005,"end":2139.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2139.1903437500005,"end":2140.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2140.55721875,"end":2141.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2141.33346875,"end":2164.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":2164.3678437500002,"end":2269.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2273.5153437500003,"end":2278.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2279.7928437500004,"end":2281.6659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2283.3365937500002,"end":2286.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2287.3359687500006,"end":2288.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2288.5847187500003,"end":2292.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2294.33909375,"end":2303.2490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2303.7890937500006,"end":2307.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2307.41721875,"end":2309.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2309.17221875,"end":2313.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2316.36096875,"end":2317.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2320.0059687500006,"end":2320.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2322.8915937500005,"end":2324.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2326.9247187500005,"end":2329.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2329.05096875,"end":2331.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2332.9997187500003,"end":2334.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2336.8809687500006,"end":2339.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2341.6397187500006,"end":2344.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2346.55034375,"end":2349.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2352.79409375,"end":2356.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2357.1309687500006,"end":2358.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2358.59909375,"end":2358.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":2358.6159687500003,"end":2358.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2358.6328437500006,"end":2358.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2361.0290937500004,"end":2361.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2362.1090937500003,"end":2364.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2368.2178437500006,"end":2371.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2371.2722187500003,"end":2372.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2374.44471875,"end":2377.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2379.45659375,"end":2382.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2384.5528437500006,"end":2387.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2389.37909375,"end":2391.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2393.90159375,"end":2396.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2402.45721875,"end":2404.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2404.65096875,"end":2442.1640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2442.90659375,"end":2443.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2444.0203437500004,"end":2462.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2464.0847187500003,"end":2468.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2469.97409375,"end":2473.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2474.5303437500006,"end":2475.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2484.38534375,"end":2494.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2494.96596875,"end":2504.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2504.31471875,"end":2504.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2505.7322187500004,"end":2523.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2523.72096875,"end":2536.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2537.3728437500004,"end":2572.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2573.94096875,"end":2575.8815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2576.45534375,"end":2580.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2580.9440937500003,"end":2585.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2586.2428437500002,"end":2598.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2598.59534375,"end":2607.5897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2608.23096875,"end":2608.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2608.9734687500004,"end":2615.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2616.34784375,"end":2635.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2636.4122187500006,"end":2637.5597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2638.79159375,"end":2650.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2651.0597187500007,"end":2651.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2651.78534375,"end":2656.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2656.7128437500005,"end":2674.2628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2674.88721875,"end":2678.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2678.9540937500005,"end":2680.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2680.65846875,"end":2682.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2683.3415937500004,"end":2685.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2685.50159375,"end":2686.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2687.6278437500005,"end":2703.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2703.87846875,"end":2722.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2723.9765937500006,"end":2729.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2729.7478437500004,"end":2731.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2731.7897187500002,"end":2735.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2736.4472187500005,"end":2739.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2740.32846875,"end":2745.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2746.5722187500005,"end":2762.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2763.0084687500002,"end":2770.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2770.1297187500004,"end":2773.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2774.3484687500004,"end":2775.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2775.8503437500003,"end":2778.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2778.85409375,"end":2780.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2781.4528437500003,"end":2784.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2784.9628437500005,"end":2799.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2800.04909375,"end":2826.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2826.62721875,"end":2833.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2833.74846875,"end":2839.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2840.0934687500003,"end":2842.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2842.7597187500005,"end":2858.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2858.9765937500006,"end":2861.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2862.01409375,"end":2862.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2862.72284375,"end":2865.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2865.9122187500006,"end":2870.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2870.5865937500002,"end":2879.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2879.17596875,"end":2880.6778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2881.58909375,"end":2882.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2882.4834687500006,"end":2908.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2908.8759687500005,"end":2918.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2919.20346875,"end":2920.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2921.54909375,"end":2923.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2923.97909375,"end":2928.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2928.90659375,"end":2934.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2935.3359687500006,"end":2939.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2940.65159375,"end":2942.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2943.38534375,"end":2944.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2944.0772187500006,"end":2944.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2944.3809687500006,"end":2948.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2949.03846875,"end":2981.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2981.94471875,"end":2994.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2994.29721875,"end":2996.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2996.65971875,"end":2997.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2997.60471875,"end":2999.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2999.9503437500007,"end":3002.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3003.51096875,"end":3005.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3006.17721875,"end":3007.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3008.82659375,"end":3008.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3009.8053437500002,"end":3033.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3034.1222187500007,"end":3036.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3036.5690937500003,"end":3039.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3039.5222187500003,"end":3039.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3040.1297187500004,"end":3040.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3040.9734687500004,"end":3044.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3044.8884687500004,"end":3064.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3064.9697187500005,"end":3073.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3073.8290937500005,"end":3085.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3085.65846875,"end":3107.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3107.5115937500004,"end":3110.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3110.49846875,"end":3125.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3125.9559687500005,"end":3128.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3129.31409375,"end":3132.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3133.0097187500005,"end":3135.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3136.04721875,"end":3147.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3152.4159687500005,"end":3168.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3169.8309687500005,"end":3174.1003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3174.55596875,"end":3182.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3182.9765937500006,"end":3184.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3184.7822187500005,"end":3191.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3196.8815937500003,"end":3198.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3199.09221875,"end":3199.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3205.4034687500007,"end":3205.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3205.42034375,"end":3205.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3206.3990937500002,"end":3209.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3209.7234687500004,"end":3216.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3216.8953437500004,"end":3220.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3220.86096875,"end":3224.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3225.0965937500005,"end":3247.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3234.05721875,"end":3234.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3248.2997187500005,"end":3261.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3262.4072187500005,"end":3281.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3282.7247187500006,"end":3283.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3284.2940937500007,"end":3290.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3290.04846875,"end":3296.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3295.5665937500007,"end":3296.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3297.3047187500006,"end":3307.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3308.23971875,"end":3311.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3309.3028437500006,"end":3309.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3310.4840937500003,"end":3310.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3311.1590937500005,"end":3315.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3314.1122187500005,"end":3318.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3319.91721875,"end":3323.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3323.3934687500005,"end":3329.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3329.40096875,"end":3333.8222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3332.7422187500006,"end":3335.3409687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3335.94846875,"end":3336.9103437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3337.0622187500003,"end":3338.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3338.91846875,"end":3342.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3342.7997187500005,"end":3347.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":3343.8965937500006,"end":3344.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":3344.16659375,"end":3344.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3347.5753437500007,"end":3349.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3350.84909375,"end":3351.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3352.40159375,"end":3356.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3357.83534375,"end":3365.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3365.1759687500007,"end":3374.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3374.9803437500004,"end":3397.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3396.2090937500006,"end":3413.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3410.80596875,"end":3410.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3411.76784375,"end":3415.4972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3415.14284375,"end":3417.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3416.30721875,"end":3425.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3426.17909375,"end":3430.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3430.3640937500004,"end":3432.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3432.0515937500004,"end":3433.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3433.82346875,"end":3438.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3438.17721875,"end":3446.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3443.23971875,"end":3444.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3445.34909375,"end":3453.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3454.4278437500006,"end":3461.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3462.1228437500004,"end":3466.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3467.2697187500007,"end":3482.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3483.18284375,"end":3484.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3484.9209687500006,"end":3495.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3496.58159375,"end":3504.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3504.71534375,"end":3508.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3511.0603437500004,"end":3521.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3521.64096875,"end":3523.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3524.05409375,"end":3529.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3529.4372187500003,"end":3530.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3530.8378437500005,"end":3533.0822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3533.5378437500003,"end":3539.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3540.4059687500003,"end":3542.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3542.44784375,"end":3550.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3550.93596875,"end":3557.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3557.63534375,"end":3560.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3561.53346875,"end":3563.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3564.4022187500004,"end":3579.0665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3579.55596875,"end":3580.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3581.5134687500004,"end":3585.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3585.3778437500005,"end":3593.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3594.1190937500005,"end":3609.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3613.32284375,"end":3617.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3618.0478437500005,"end":3623.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3623.3972187500003,"end":3624.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3625.3884687500004,"end":3628.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3633.43784375,"end":3633.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3634.63596875,"end":3643.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3644.6259687500005,"end":3646.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3646.76909375,"end":3657.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3657.1472187500003,"end":3662.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3663.2559687500006,"end":3664.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3666.59721875,"end":3709.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3709.9659687500007,"end":3711.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3712.1765937500004,"end":3726.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3727.09409375,"end":3731.0597187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3731.31284375,"end":3731.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3731.3465937500005,"end":3737.2697187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3735.0253437500005,"end":3735.6834687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3736.39221875,"end":3736.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3737.3709687500004,"end":3739.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3740.0203437500004,"end":3747.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3748.6603437500007,"end":3750.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3750.2128437500005,"end":3756.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3756.4734687500004,"end":3766.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3759.03846875,"end":3760.7765937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3766.15971875,"end":3767.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3767.89784375,"end":3774.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3773.44971875,"end":3791.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3791.65784375,"end":3792.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3792.24846875,"end":3822.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3798.1209687500004,"end":3798.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3822.3703437500008,"end":3830.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3830.6222187500007,"end":3833.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3831.2634687500004,"end":3832.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3833.5584687500004,"end":3851.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3851.4459687500002,"end":3880.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3880.6903437500005,"end":3903.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3901.14284375,"end":3901.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3903.8259687500004,"end":3915.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3915.9928437500002,"end":3916.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3916.46534375,"end":3924.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3924.5653437500005,"end":3939.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3935.6690937500007,"end":3937.5422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3938.4872187500005,"end":3944.4440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3941.9128437500003,"end":3942.2165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3944.49471875,"end":3945.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3945.62534375,"end":3946.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3946.30034375,"end":3950.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3951.17721875,"end":3955.3115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3956.0709687500002,"end":3957.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":3956.18909375,"end":3956.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3958.9734687500004,"end":3960.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3960.15471875,"end":3962.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3963.15846875,"end":3976.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":3974.2959687500006,"end":3974.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3974.31284375,"end":3983.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3978.0928437500006,"end":3978.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3979.0547187500006,"end":3979.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3983.2059687500005,"end":3985.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3984.3028437500006,"end":3987.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3986.96909375,"end":3990.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3987.76221875,"end":3988.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3988.8084687500004,"end":3989.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":3990.6647187500002,"end":3991.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3991.9978437500004,"end":3992.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3992.04846875,"end":3992.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3992.26784375,"end":3992.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3992.75721875,"end":3992.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3993.24659375,"end":3994.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3996.01409375,"end":3998.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4006.7803437500006,"end":4008.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4008.9572187500007,"end":4009.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4015.2178437500006,"end":4015.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4015.8253437500007,"end":4016.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4016.38221875,"end":4019.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4020.06096875,"end":4021.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4021.63034375,"end":4026.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4027.1990937500004,"end":4032.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4032.36284375,"end":4037.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4037.5772187500006,"end":4066.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4066.6190937500005,"end":4074.2297187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4075.27596875,"end":4076.9972187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4077.62159375,"end":4086.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4087.1053437500004,"end":4088.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4089.0965937500005,"end":4103.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4103.575343750001,"end":4104.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4105.27971875,"end":4105.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4105.83659375,"end":4112.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4113.21096875,"end":4124.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4125.7997187500005,"end":4153.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4154.234093749999,"end":4155.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4155.280343750001,"end":4217.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4217.63346875,"end":4242.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4243.13159375,"end":4253.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4254.420968750001,"end":4257.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4257.559718750001,"end":4286.753468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4286.9559687500005,"end":4306.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4306.69971875,"end":4317.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4317.179093750001,"end":4317.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4317.651593750001,"end":4327.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4327.08471875,"end":4334.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4336.214093750001,"end":4339.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4340.63534375,"end":4356.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4356.29534375,"end":4359.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4360.716593749999,"end":4400.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4401.132218750001,"end":4415.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4415.49284375,"end":4444.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4444.9228437500005,"end":4447.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4448.1122187500005,"end":4450.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4450.964093750001,"end":4451.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4451.9090937500005,"end":4457.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4457.27534375,"end":4474.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4474.55534375,"end":4475.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4475.1122187500005,"end":4475.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4475.87159375,"end":4488.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4488.7978437500005,"end":4525.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4525.5009687500005,"end":4527.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4527.795968750001,"end":4534.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4534.394093749999,"end":4539.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4539.642218749999,"end":4551.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4552.163468750001,"end":4556.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4556.1122187500005,"end":4573.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4573.915343750001,"end":4580.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4580.715968750001,"end":4613.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4614.685343749999,"end":4630.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4630.51409375,"end":4652.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4652.232218749999,"end":4653.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4653.919718749999,"end":4654.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4654.47659375,"end":4660.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4660.028468750001,"end":4661.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4662.0028437500005,"end":4664.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4664.68596875,"end":4667.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4673.68034375,"end":4676.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4680.81846875,"end":4702.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4703.279093749999,"end":4705.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4705.675343750001,"end":4706.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4707.936593750001,"end":4712.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4712.6278437500005,"end":4712.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4712.64471875,"end":4713.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4713.606593750001,"end":4714.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4714.70346875,"end":4715.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4715.02409375,"end":4728.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4724.288468750001,"end":4724.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4729.6884687500005,"end":4766.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4766.7459687499995,"end":4785.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4786.169093750001,"end":4791.923468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4793.054093750001,"end":4794.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4794.825968749999,"end":4808.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4808.54534375,"end":4816.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4817.0165937500005,"end":4820.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4820.96534375,"end":4827.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4827.4959687499995,"end":4842.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4841.95784375,"end":4845.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4844.8603437500005,"end":4853.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4848.370343750001,"end":4848.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4854.02346875,"end":4861.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4863.33846875,"end":4863.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4864.401593750001,"end":4872.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4869.71721875,"end":4940.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4941.35159375,"end":4945.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4945.97534375,"end":4946.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4946.59971875,"end":4947.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4946.59971875,"end":4947.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4947.696593750001,"end":4948.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4948.60784375,"end":4968.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4948.65846875,"end":4949.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4969.110968749999,"end":4975.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4975.27034375,"end":4980.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4980.56909375,"end":4982.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4981.64909375,"end":4983.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4982.712218750001,"end":4986.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":4986.357218749999,"end":4993.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4994.08596875,"end":5000.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5000.3465937500005,"end":5044.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5045.63909375,"end":5072.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5052.30471875,"end":5052.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5052.321593750001,"end":5052.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5055.02159375,"end":5055.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5055.038468750001,"end":5055.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5071.4072187500005,"end":5074.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5074.259093750001,"end":5087.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5087.97846875,"end":5092.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5092.88909375,"end":5099.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5099.97659375,"end":5108.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5101.93409375,"end":5102.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5108.81909375,"end":5114.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5113.51034375,"end":5115.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5115.450968749999,"end":5150.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5151.20909375,"end":5154.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5155.00596875,"end":5156.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5155.866593750001,"end":5171.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5160.794093750001,"end":5160.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5160.96284375,"end":5161.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5171.847218750001,"end":5179.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5180.79096875,"end":5203.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5204.2978437500005,"end":5204.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5204.9559687500005,"end":5209.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5207.79096875,"end":5208.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5210.288468750001,"end":5213.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5212.43159375,"end":5215.485968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5214.456593750001,"end":5228.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5216.39721875,"end":5216.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5225.2059687500005,"end":5225.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5226.48846875,"end":5227.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5227.88909375,"end":5229.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5230.04909375,"end":5230.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5230.74096875,"end":5231.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5231.618468750001,"end":5244.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5244.86534375,"end":5248.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5248.24034375,"end":5248.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5249.2528437500005,"end":5276.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5258.061593750001,"end":5258.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5277.467843750001,"end":5278.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5279.104718750001,"end":5283.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5283.99846875,"end":5285.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5285.92221875,"end":5287.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5287.862843750001,"end":5288.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5288.87534375,"end":5289.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5290.84971875,"end":5294.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5297.093468749999,"end":5319.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5299.489718750001,"end":5299.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5299.50659375,"end":5299.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5301.464093750001,"end":5301.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5301.48096875,"end":5301.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5301.80159375,"end":5301.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5319.8240937499995,"end":5321.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5320.33034375,"end":5320.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5321.140343749999,"end":5327.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5328.700343750001,"end":5328.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5328.71721875,"end":5329.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5330.35409375,"end":5342.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5335.75409375,"end":5336.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5342.757218750001,"end":5342.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5342.77409375,"end":5354.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5342.92596875,"end":5342.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5342.942843750001,"end":5343.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5354.11409375,"end":5354.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5354.384093750001,"end":5355.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5356.74659375,"end":5366.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5366.5340937500005,"end":5369.841593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5371.3603437500005,"end":5376.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5374.026593750001,"end":5374.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5374.46534375,"end":5374.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5377.1990937499995,"end":5383.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5382.48096875,"end":5389.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5390.057843750001,"end":5395.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5393.82096875,"end":5398.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5399.17034375,"end":5400.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5399.760968750001,"end":5405.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5402.005343750001,"end":5402.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5405.616593750001,"end":5430.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5431.452218750001,"end":5436.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5436.6834687499995,"end":5436.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5436.700343750001,"end":5437.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5437.814093749999,"end":5441.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5441.762843750001,"end":5442.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5442.083468750001,"end":5449.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5449.27221875,"end":5452.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5449.28909375,"end":5449.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5449.42409375,"end":5451.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5452.93409375,"end":5462.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5462.55284375,"end":5473.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5474.16284375,"end":5480.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5481.33471875,"end":5485.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5485.04721875,"end":5487.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5487.460343750001,"end":5491.1053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5491.493468750001,"end":5497.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5498.057843750001,"end":5503.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5503.964093750001,"end":5506.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5505.735968749999,"end":5508.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5508.554093750001,"end":5514.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5513.81909375,"end":5513.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5513.903468750001,"end":5513.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5513.97096875,"end":5514.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5514.07221875,"end":5514.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5514.122843749999,"end":5518.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5514.15659375,"end":5514.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5514.173468749999,"end":5514.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5514.1903437500005,"end":5514.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5514.20721875,"end":5514.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5518.341593749999,"end":5518.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5519.050343750001,"end":5521.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5520.872843749999,"end":5531.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5531.79096875,"end":5534.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5534.08596875,"end":5534.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5534.59221875,"end":5546.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5546.944718750001,"end":5555.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5556.52971875,"end":5565.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5565.372218750001,"end":5567.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5566.97534375,"end":5567.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5567.3465937500005,"end":5573.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5571.7509687500005,"end":5575.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5574.2822187500005,"end":5578.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5578.956593750001,"end":5591.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5591.5790937500005,"end":5599.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5598.29534375,"end":5598.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5598.312218749999,"end":5598.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5599.392218749999,"end":5599.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5599.42596875,"end":5599.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5599.79721875,"end":5599.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5599.98284375,"end":5600.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5600.82659375,"end":5600.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5600.8603437500005,"end":5602.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5602.85159375,"end":5603.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5603.88096875,"end":5623.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5622.49409375,"end":5623.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5623.354718750001,"end":5623.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5624.68784375,"end":5625.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5625.24471875,"end":5625.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5626.05471875,"end":5626.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5626.66221875,"end":5630.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5630.69534375,"end":5632.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5632.56846875,"end":5644.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5642.423468749999,"end":5646.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5646.2372187500005,"end":5657.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5656.80096875,"end":5669.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5669.794718749999,"end":5675.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5676.274718750001,"end":5680.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5680.999718749999,"end":5681.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5682.180968750001,"end":5683.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5682.29909375,"end":5682.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5684.40846875,"end":5690.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5690.83784375,"end":5695.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5695.37721875,"end":5714.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5704.4559687500005,"end":5705.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5715.323468750001,"end":5717.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5717.87159375,"end":5723.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5720.6053437499995,"end":5720.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5723.288468750001,"end":5723.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5723.5584687499995,"end":5727.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5727.085343750001,"end":5727.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5727.33846875,"end":5727.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5727.81096875,"end":5727.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5727.94596875,"end":5728.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5728.18221875,"end":5737.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5737.7840937500005,"end":5741.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5741.41221875,"end":5743.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5744.31471875,"end":5744.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5745.61409375,"end":5746.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5747.6053437499995,"end":5764.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5764.075343750001,"end":5764.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5764.32846875,"end":5771.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5772.597218750001,"end":5782.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5781.321593750001,"end":5784.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5783.8865937499995,"end":5788.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5785.776593750001,"end":5786.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5787.5653437500005,"end":5787.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5788.29096875,"end":5793.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5793.48846875,"end":5793.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5793.842843750001,"end":5793.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5794.28159375,"end":5796.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5796.559718750001,"end":5805.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5804.92971875,"end":5805.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5805.503468750001,"end":5808.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5808.929093750001,"end":5812.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5813.08034375,"end":5815.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5815.98284375,"end":5816.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5817.788468750001,"end":5822.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5824.065968750001,"end":5829.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5829.280343750001,"end":5829.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5830.51221875,"end":5833.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5834.055968750001,"end":5846.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5846.340968750001,"end":5854.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5848.41659375,"end":5848.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5848.4334687499995,"end":5848.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5852.618468750001,"end":5856.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5856.11159375,"end":5856.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5857.545968750001,"end":5863.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5863.80659375,"end":5864.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5864.515343749999,"end":5880.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":5868.19409375,"end":5870.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5879.466593749999,"end":5879.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5879.9559687500005,"end":5880.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5880.05721875,"end":5880.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5880.090968750001,"end":5883.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5884.27596875,"end":5884.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5884.74846875,"end":5894.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5895.1434687500005,"end":5909.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5897.050343750001,"end":5897.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5910.24659375,"end":5911.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5912.50784375,"end":5918.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5919.696593750001,"end":5935.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5935.55909375,"end":5935.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5936.35221875,"end":5941.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5941.397843750001,"end":5941.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5941.532843750001,"end":5943.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5941.5497187500005,"end":5941.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5943.186593750001,"end":5943.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5944.249718749999,"end":5944.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":5944.28346875,"end":5946.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":5946.747218750001,"end":5949.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5955.741593750001,"end":5957.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5963.807843750001,"end":5964.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5964.550343750001,"end":5971.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5972.68409375,"end":5974.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5974.067843750001,"end":5974.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5974.08471875,"end":5976.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5976.63284375,"end":5979.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5979.5184687500005,"end":5980.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5980.7840937500005,"end":5982.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5982.690968750001,"end":5984.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5984.007218750001,"end":5986.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5987.854718750001,"end":5996.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5996.68034375,"end":5998.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5998.75596875,"end":5999.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":5999.616593750001,"end":6004.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6005.8603437500005,"end":6007.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6006.33284375,"end":6011.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6008.30721875,"end":6010.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6011.02409375,"end":6012.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6012.01971875,"end":6023.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6012.9647187499995,"end":6013.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6013.60596875,"end":6014.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6015.040343750001,"end":6016.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6023.25846875,"end":6023.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6023.86596875,"end":6030.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6032.3709687499995,"end":6039.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6035.847218750001,"end":6036.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6039.4247187500005,"end":6063.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6063.420968750001,"end":6064.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6065.479718750001,"end":6066.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6067.403468750001,"end":6069.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6067.589093750001,"end":6068.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6069.175343750001,"end":6075.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6075.604718750001,"end":6076.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6076.80284375,"end":6077.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6077.140343749999,"end":6078.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6078.591593749999,"end":6079.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6081.44346875,"end":6085.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6086.151593750001,"end":6090.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6088.767218750001,"end":6089.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6091.247843749999,"end":6091.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6091.51784375,"end":6092.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6092.68221875,"end":6093.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6094.622843749999,"end":6099.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6099.01034375,"end":6102.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6102.43596875,"end":6104.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6103.954718750001,"end":6105.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6105.034718750001,"end":6105.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6105.085343750001,"end":6105.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6105.20346875,"end":6107.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6106.80659375,"end":6107.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6107.481593750001,"end":6107.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6107.616593750001,"end":6107.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6107.802218750001,"end":6107.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6107.83596875,"end":6107.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6107.903468750001,"end":6107.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6107.97096875,"end":6114.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6111.80159375,"end":6111.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6111.86909375,"end":6112.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6112.18971875,"end":6112.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6113.100968750001,"end":6113.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6113.843468749999,"end":6113.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6113.995343750001,"end":6114.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6116.003468750001,"end":6116.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6117.083468750001,"end":6121.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6121.84221875,"end":6123.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6124.60971875,"end":6131.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6130.9715937500005,"end":6134.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6134.12721875,"end":6138.312218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6137.282843750001,"end":6141.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6141.366593750001,"end":6143.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6143.526593750001,"end":6149.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6143.6278437500005,"end":6144.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6147.76221875,"end":6148.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6148.8084687499995,"end":6151.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6151.00221875,"end":6152.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6154.93409375,"end":6155.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6155.760968750001,"end":6156.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6156.503468750001,"end":6157.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6157.56659375,"end":6159.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6159.405968749999,"end":6159.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6159.47346875,"end":6160.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6160.452218750001,"end":6160.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6160.772843750001,"end":6161.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6161.329718750001,"end":6163.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6163.89471875,"end":6165.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6165.413468750001,"end":6166.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6166.29096875,"end":6167.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6167.809718750001,"end":6169.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6169.294718749999,"end":6170.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6170.560343749999,"end":6171.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6170.610968750001,"end":6171.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6171.927218750001,"end":6172.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6173.20971875,"end":6173.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6173.243468750001,"end":6176.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6174.44159375,"end":6174.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6176.44971875,"end":6178.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6178.98096875,"end":6179.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6179.77409375,"end":6183.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6182.389718750001,"end":6185.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6185.984093749999,"end":6187.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6188.26221875,"end":6189.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6189.94971875,"end":6194.2528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6195.417218750001,"end":6195.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6196.32846875,"end":6198.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6197.8134687500005,"end":6199.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6199.88909375,"end":6203.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6202.065968750001,"end":6205.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6206.6728437500005,"end":6216.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6216.510968750001,"end":6218.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6218.434718750001,"end":6226.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6226.33221875,"end":6236.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6237.19971875,"end":6243.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6237.233468750001,"end":6237.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6237.267218750001,"end":6240.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6241.80659375,"end":6242.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6243.76409375,"end":6246.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6246.29534375,"end":6247.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6247.679093750001,"end":6248.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6248.92784375,"end":6256.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6257.280968749999,"end":6267.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6267.4228437500005,"end":6271.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6272.434718750001,"end":6272.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6272.97471875,"end":6287.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6288.48284375,"end":6290.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6289.343468749999,"end":6291.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6292.3134687500005,"end":6296.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6297.274718750001,"end":6299.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6300.649718750001,"end":6302.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6302.286593750001,"end":6304.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6305.45909375,"end":6307.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6307.28159375,"end":6310.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6310.15034375,"end":6315.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6311.17971875,"end":6312.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6312.47909375,"end":6312.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6314.419718749999,"end":6315.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6315.53346875,"end":6318.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6317.50784375,"end":6322.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6318.75659375,"end":6319.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6320.17409375,"end":6320.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6321.57471875,"end":6328.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6328.27409375,"end":6330.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6329.72534375,"end":6333.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6333.01596875,"end":6335.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6335.59784375,"end":6338.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6337.92659375,"end":6338.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6339.090968750001,"end":6342.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6342.972218750001,"end":6346.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6347.477843750001,"end":6348.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6348.085343750001,"end":6352.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6352.52346875,"end":6358.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6356.202218750001,"end":6356.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6358.00784375,"end":6358.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6358.294718749999,"end":6362.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6362.49659375,"end":6368.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6365.55096875,"end":6366.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6367.74471875,"end":6369.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6369.61784375,"end":6369.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6370.444718750001,"end":6374.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6375.10221875,"end":6377.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6378.47721875,"end":6382.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6383.48909375,"end":6384.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6385.80096875,"end":6399.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6399.216593749999,"end":6402.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6402.25409375,"end":6407.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6406.354718750001,"end":6407.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6407.97471875,"end":6408.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6409.00409375,"end":6409.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6409.27409375,"end":6412.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6412.59846875,"end":6415.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6415.399718750001,"end":6415.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6416.02409375,"end":6420.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6420.327218750001,"end":6424.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6423.38159375,"end":6424.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6425.153468750001,"end":6426.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6425.96346875,"end":6426.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6427.56659375,"end":6430.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6431.63346875,"end":6432.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6431.65034375,"end":6433.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6432.561593750001,"end":6434.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6433.725968750001,"end":6434.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6434.45159375,"end":6438.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6437.32034375,"end":6439.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6438.889718750001,"end":6442.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6439.59846875,"end":6440.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6442.56846875,"end":6446.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6445.74096875,"end":6446.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6448.45784375,"end":6450.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6454.397843750001,"end":6454.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6454.482218749999,"end":6457.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6461.02971875,"end":6464.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6466.1259687500005,"end":6466.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6467.340968750001,"end":6472.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6473.095343750001,"end":6485.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6485.16096875,"end":6486.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6485.987843750001,"end":6486.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6487.10159375,"end":6487.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6487.18596875,"end":6488.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6488.55284375,"end":6490.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6491.151593750001,"end":6496.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6497.44596875,"end":6497.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6497.749718749999,"end":6499.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6499.859093749999,"end":6502.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6499.89284375,"end":6499.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6500.567843750001,"end":6501.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6502.00221875,"end":6508.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6508.78596875,"end":6513.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6514.70909375,"end":6516.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6516.278468750001,"end":6518.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6517.79721875,"end":6521.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6519.58596875,"end":6520.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6521.054093750001,"end":6521.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6521.59409375,"end":6521.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6521.64471875,"end":6522.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6522.01596875,"end":6528.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6526.57221875,"end":6539.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6539.36346875,"end":6543.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6544.1728437500005,"end":6545.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6546.872843749999,"end":6547.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6546.974093750001,"end":6549.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6549.6572187500005,"end":6549.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6550.51784375,"end":6551.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6552.509093750001,"end":6554.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6552.829718750001,"end":6555.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6555.81659375,"end":6557.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6557.470343750001,"end":6558.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6558.5165937500005,"end":6559.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6559.680968750001,"end":6561.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6562.5497187500005,"end":6563.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6563.140343749999,"end":6569.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6566.009093750001,"end":6566.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6569.8397187499995,"end":6571.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6571.341593749999,"end":6575.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6575.104718750001,"end":6580.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6580.84221875,"end":6592.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6593.07659375,"end":6593.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6593.12721875,"end":6593.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6595.65846875,"end":6595.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6595.675343750001,"end":6598.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6595.70909375,"end":6596.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6598.206593750001,"end":6605.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6606.036593750001,"end":6607.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6607.13346875,"end":6607.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6607.89284375,"end":6619.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6620.430968750001,"end":6628.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6628.41284375,"end":6628.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6628.9697187500005,"end":6635.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6629.762843750001,"end":6630.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6635.60159375,"end":6637.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6637.592843750001,"end":6639.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6639.63471875,"end":6640.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6642.52034375,"end":6642.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6642.95909375,"end":6643.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6643.1278437500005,"end":6643.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6643.262843750001,"end":6643.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6643.397843750001,"end":6644.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6644.03909375,"end":6649.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6645.05159375,"end":6645.642218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6648.983468750001,"end":6650.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6650.046593749999,"end":6650.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6650.95784375,"end":6651.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6651.16034375,"end":6651.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6651.21096875,"end":6651.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6651.24471875,"end":6651.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6651.3290937500005,"end":6652.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6651.85221875,"end":6652.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6652.08846875,"end":6652.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6652.206593750001,"end":6652.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6652.98284375,"end":6653.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6653.03346875,"end":6653.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":6653.21909375,"end":6653.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6653.3709687499995,"end":6657.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6655.9697187500005,"end":6656.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6656.03721875,"end":6656.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6656.45909375,"end":6656.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6656.50971875,"end":6656.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6656.526593750001,"end":6657.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6657.032843750001,"end":6668.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6667.51221875,"end":6667.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6667.83284375,"end":6667.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6668.45721875,"end":6668.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6668.59221875,"end":6668.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6668.64284375,"end":6668.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6668.96346875,"end":6669.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6671.1572187500005,"end":6671.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6672.456593750001,"end":6675.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":6677.11409375,"end":6677.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6677.4853437500005,"end":6680.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6677.97471875,"end":6678.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6683.50971875,"end":6685.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6685.61909375,"end":6688.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6685.97346875,"end":6686.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6688.75784375,"end":6691.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6692.335343750001,"end":6694.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6694.2928437499995,"end":6694.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6695.524718750001,"end":6697.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6697.41471875,"end":6697.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6697.684718750001,"end":6700.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6700.958468750001,"end":6702.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6701.616593750001,"end":6703.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6703.75971875,"end":6708.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6710.2059687500005,"end":6710.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6711.35346875,"end":6714.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6714.23909375,"end":6720.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":6720.01034375,"end":6720.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6720.3309687500005,"end":6723.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":6722.25471875,"end":6722.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":6723.233468750001,"end":6725.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":6726.01784375,"end":6729.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":6729.780968749999,"end":6734.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6741.05346875,"end":6741.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6742.167218750001,"end":6743.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6753.220343750001,"end":6754.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6755.07659375,"end":6756.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6756.1903437500005,"end":6756.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6760.00409375,"end":6760.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6760.020968750001,"end":6760.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6760.03784375,"end":6760.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6760.965968750001,"end":6761.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6761.03346875,"end":6763.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6764.02034375,"end":6781.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6783.25784375,"end":6787.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6788.11784375,"end":6791.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6792.85971875,"end":6807.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6806.005343750001,"end":6810.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6807.743468750001,"end":6807.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6810.6122187500005,"end":6814.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6814.32471875,"end":6821.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6821.530343750001,"end":6825.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6825.61409375,"end":6841.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6841.88159375,"end":6844.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6844.767218750001,"end":6849.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6848.04096875,"end":6849.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6849.99846875,"end":6850.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6850.0322187500005,"end":6859.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6851.061593750001,"end":6851.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6851.466593749999,"end":6851.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6858.452843749999,"end":6858.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6859.920968750001,"end":6872.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6872.054093750001,"end":6872.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6872.374718749999,"end":6872.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6872.425343750001,"end":6880.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6873.083468750001,"end":6873.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6879.71534375,"end":6880.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6880.93034375,"end":6888.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6887.69721875,"end":6908.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6905.36534375,"end":6906.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6908.50409375,"end":6909.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6910.66409375,"end":6919.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6920.21534375,"end":6921.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6922.155968750001,"end":6927.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6928.450343750001,"end":6928.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6928.97346875,"end":6937.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6937.09034375,"end":6951.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6952.109093750001,"end":6960.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6961.542218750001,"end":6967.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6967.9715937500005,"end":6968.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6968.427218750001,"end":6968.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6968.44409375,"end":6996.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6983.68221875,"end":6985.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6995.292218750001,"end":6996.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6996.96284375,"end":6997.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6997.1990937499995,"end":6997.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6997.249718750001,"end":6998.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6998.751593750001,"end":6998.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6998.7684687500005,"end":6998.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6998.97096875,"end":6999.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6999.038468750001,"end":6999.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6999.966593749999,"end":7000.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7000.0340937500005,"end":7014.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7014.85034375,"end":7016.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7016.6053437499995,"end":7016.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7016.942843750001,"end":7016.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7017.82034375,"end":7017.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7017.85409375,"end":7018.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7018.107218749999,"end":7018.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7018.731593750001,"end":7018.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7018.765343750001,"end":7018.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7018.93409375,"end":7019.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7019.22096875,"end":7020.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7021.85346875,"end":7031.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7032.130343750001,"end":7034.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7035.134093750001,"end":7036.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7037.63159375,"end":7037.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7037.665343750001,"end":7042.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7042.28909375,"end":7047.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7042.93034375,"end":7043.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7044.39846875,"end":7048.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7048.88721875,"end":7048.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7050.0009687500005,"end":7059.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7056.1434687500005,"end":7057.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7057.965968750001,"end":7058.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7060.24409375,"end":7061.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7061.610968750001,"end":7069.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7068.9853437500005,"end":7075.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7070.234093750001,"end":7072.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7076.055968750001,"end":7105.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7106.093468750001,"end":7110.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7111.22346875,"end":7113.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7113.40034375,"end":7125.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7125.43221875,"end":7131.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7132.350968750001,"end":7138.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7135.118468750001,"end":7136.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7139.30346875,"end":7144.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7144.028468750001,"end":7150.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7151.03159375,"end":7152.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7152.61784375,"end":7153.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7153.022843750001,"end":7153.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7153.14096875,"end":7153.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7153.46159375,"end":7154.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7154.372843749999,"end":7162.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7154.82846875,"end":7155.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7162.47284375,"end":7163.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7164.19409375,"end":7165.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7164.80159375,"end":7164.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7166.16846875,"end":7167.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7168.395968750001,"end":7170.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7170.10034375,"end":7170.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7170.404093749999,"end":7170.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7170.420968750001,"end":7170.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7170.977843750001,"end":7175.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7175.618468750001,"end":7180.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7180.022843750001,"end":7181.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7181.1365937499995,"end":7181.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7181.423468750001,"end":7181.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7181.4403437500005,"end":7188.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7188.89909375,"end":7192.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7193.08409375,"end":7194.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7194.923468750001,"end":7197.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7198.163468750001,"end":7199.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7199.142218750001,"end":7199.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7199.88471875,"end":7199.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7199.96909375,"end":7208.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7208.8622187500005,"end":7227.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7228.015343750001,"end":7230.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7231.491593750001,"end":7233.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7233.465968750001,"end":7240.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7234.495343750001,"end":7235.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7237.296593750001,"end":7237.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7238.86596875,"end":7238.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7238.950343750001,"end":7242.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7240.587218750001,"end":7240.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7241.17784375,"end":7244.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7244.77221875,"end":7247.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7248.029093749999,"end":7253.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7253.665343750001,"end":7254.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7254.9647187499995,"end":7262.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7263.604718750001,"end":7266.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7266.96284375,"end":7273.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7272.042218750001,"end":7272.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7273.03784375,"end":7273.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7273.257218750001,"end":7273.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7273.47659375,"end":7290.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7287.11159375,"end":7287.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7290.85784375,"end":7294.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7295.02596875,"end":7309.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7309.50471875,"end":7312.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7313.892218750001,"end":7315.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7315.022843750001,"end":7317.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7317.655343750001,"end":7325.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7324.9959687499995,"end":7327.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7326.66659375,"end":7337.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7332.842843750001,"end":7332.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7333.60221875,"end":7334.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7337.36534375,"end":7337.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7337.382218750001,"end":7346.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7337.68596875,"end":7338.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7340.30159375,"end":7340.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7347.54096875,"end":7348.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7348.97534375,"end":7350.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7351.23659375,"end":7353.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7354.577843750001,"end":7356.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7357.09221875,"end":7360.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7360.635968750001,"end":7374.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7374.70971875,"end":7375.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7374.743468750001,"end":7390.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7375.030343750001,"end":7376.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7390.79159375,"end":7394.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7394.50409375,"end":7402.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7400.899718750001,"end":7401.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7402.857218749999,"end":7404.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7404.94971875,"end":7415.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7416.39096875,"end":7416.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7417.538468750001,"end":7421.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7419.15846875,"end":7425.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7423.98471875,"end":7424.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7426.14471875,"end":7434.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7434.9872187500005,"end":7435.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7435.307843750001,"end":7439.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7435.4090937500005,"end":7437.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7440.184718750001,"end":7443.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7444.79159375,"end":7444.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7444.8084687499995,"end":7445.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7445.382218750001,"end":7449.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7449.7528437500005,"end":7454.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7456.33409375,"end":7464.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7465.446593750001,"end":7467.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7466.577218750001,"end":7472.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7473.61409375,"end":7474.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7475.21721875,"end":7478.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7479.081593750001,"end":7480.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7480.09409375,"end":7480.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7480.110968750001,"end":7480.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7481.342843750001,"end":7481.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7481.3934687500005,"end":7481.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7481.427218750001,"end":7481.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7481.68034375,"end":7481.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7481.96721875,"end":7488.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7489.08846875,"end":7490.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7490.77596875,"end":7492.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7492.024718750001,"end":7504.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7493.12159375,"end":7493.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7494.70784375,"end":7495.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7504.46159375,"end":7525.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7525.0322187500005,"end":7533.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7534.110968750001,"end":7534.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7534.9715937500005,"end":7536.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7536.321593750001,"end":7537.114718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7537.78971875,"end":7539.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7539.52784375,"end":7541.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7542.71721875,"end":7548.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7549.484093750001,"end":7554.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7554.95159375,"end":7554.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7555.913468750001,"end":7555.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7555.93034375,"end":7572.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7574.72909375,"end":7576.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":7577.1590937500005,"end":7580.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7591.064093750001,"end":7592.751593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7593.1903437500005,"end":7594.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7595.755343750001,"end":7604.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7604.44596875,"end":7604.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7604.78346875,"end":7604.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7604.81721875,"end":7604.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7604.83409375,"end":7604.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7604.96909375,"end":7605.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7606.302218750001,"end":7620.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7620.966593749999,"end":7624.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7624.03784375,"end":7629.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7630.264718750001,"end":7633.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7634.21346875,"end":7638.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7638.364718750001,"end":7641.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7641.975968750001,"end":7642.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7642.499093750001,"end":7642.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7642.5497187500005,"end":7642.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7642.6678437499995,"end":7642.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7642.718468750001,"end":7642.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7643.91659375,"end":7644.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7644.96284375,"end":7679.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7666.529093749999,"end":7666.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7666.545968750001,"end":7666.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7666.7147187499995,"end":7666.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7666.74846875,"end":7666.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7666.84971875,"end":7666.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":7667.4403437500005,"end":7667.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7680.61971875,"end":7687.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7688.939093750001,"end":7693.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7691.1834687499995,"end":7691.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7693.545968750001,"end":7693.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7693.680968750001,"end":7698.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7698.96284375,"end":7715.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7715.26409375,"end":7716.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7716.968468750001,"end":7718.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7718.014718750001,"end":7718.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7718.436593750001,"end":7718.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7718.45346875,"end":7719.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7719.01034375,"end":7719.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7719.179093750001,"end":7719.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7720.107218749999,"end":7720.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7721.946593750001,"end":7727.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7726.857218749999,"end":7727.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7727.54909375,"end":7731.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7731.02534375,"end":7733.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7735.46346875,"end":7739.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7739.530343750001,"end":7756.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7741.47096875,"end":7742.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7756.2197187500005,"end":7759.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7760.337218750001,"end":7761.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7761.029093749999,"end":7763.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7763.03721875,"end":7763.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7763.96534375,"end":7764.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7764.032843750001,"end":7765.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7765.97346875,"end":7770.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7770.68159375,"end":7772.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7770.7997187500005,"end":7770.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7771.069718750001,"end":7771.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7771.89659375,"end":7772.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7772.16659375,"end":7783.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7783.962218750001,"end":7787.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7787.72534375,"end":7791.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7792.46721875,"end":7795.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7796.68596875,"end":7797.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7797.512843750001,"end":7817.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7802.6259687500005,"end":7803.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7803.99284375,"end":7804.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7809.7978437500005,"end":7811.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7817.003468750001,"end":7817.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7817.25659375,"end":7818.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7818.454718750001,"end":7820.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7818.4715937500005,"end":7818.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7818.977843750001,"end":7819.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7819.18034375,"end":7819.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7819.23096875,"end":7819.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7819.38284375,"end":7820.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7820.02409375,"end":7820.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7820.057843750001,"end":7820.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7820.5809687500005,"end":7821.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7820.59784375,"end":7820.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7820.96909375,"end":7821.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7821.036593750001,"end":7829.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7821.9647187499995,"end":7822.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7822.33596875,"end":7822.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7829.96346875,"end":7831.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7831.026593750001,"end":7847.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7848.1209687499995,"end":7848.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7848.137843750001,"end":7848.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7848.171593750001,"end":7848.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7848.49221875,"end":7860.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7861.064093750001,"end":7867.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7867.965968750001,"end":7872.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7872.43784375,"end":7873.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7873.97346875,"end":7877.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7877.804093750001,"end":7877.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7877.82096875,"end":7877.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7878.25971875,"end":7878.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7878.276593750001,"end":7879.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7878.4959687499995,"end":7878.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7878.782843750001,"end":7878.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7878.86721875,"end":7878.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7880.470343750001,"end":7886.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7886.30909375,"end":7894.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7895.894093750001,"end":7898.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7898.577218750001,"end":7898.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7898.7459687499995,"end":7899.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7899.032843750001,"end":7906.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7906.964093750001,"end":7907.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7908.263468749999,"end":7908.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7908.280343750001,"end":7910.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7910.50784375,"end":7924.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7923.467843750001,"end":7926.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7926.032843750001,"end":7926.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7926.977843750001,"end":7927.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7927.97346875,"end":7938.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7930.08284375,"end":7930.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7930.09971875,"end":7930.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7930.116593750001,"end":7930.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7930.74096875,"end":7930.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7938.77346875,"end":7939.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7940.25846875,"end":7958.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7955.39534375,"end":7955.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7959.20909375,"end":7972.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7962.0272187499995,"end":7962.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7963.2928437499995,"end":7963.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7963.343468750001,"end":7963.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7963.37721875,"end":7963.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":7967.714093750001,"end":7967.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7967.73096875,"end":7967.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7972.6415937500005,"end":7972.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7972.65846875,"end":7972.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7972.8778437500005,"end":7972.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7972.89471875,"end":7974.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7974.7509687500005,"end":7978.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7977.19784375,"end":7977.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7978.9022187499995,"end":7981.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7981.298468750001,"end":7984.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7985.36534375,"end":7990.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7990.7822187500005,"end":7990.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7990.967843750001,"end":7994.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7994.03909375,"end":7996.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7996.73909375,"end":7996.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7996.75596875,"end":7998.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7999.304093750001,"end":8002.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8003.050343750001,"end":8003.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8003.96159375,"end":8006.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8006.03721875,"end":8018.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8018.40659375,"end":8022.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8023.215968750001,"end":8027.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8029.4090937500005,"end":8030.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8031.24846875,"end":8034.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8035.23096875,"end":8040.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8041.23846875,"end":8041.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8041.84596875,"end":8089.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8063.985968750001,"end":8064.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8081.569718750001,"end":8081.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8081.60346875,"end":8083.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8090.2772187499995,"end":8097.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8099.59221875,"end":8099.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8099.997218750001,"end":8100.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8100.317843750001,"end":8126.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8127.419093750001,"end":8131.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8132.58284375,"end":8145.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8145.76221875,"end":8163.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8164.74659375,"end":8177.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8177.03159375,"end":8183.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8183.96721875,"end":8190.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8191.37534375,"end":8192.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8192.03346875,"end":8195.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8195.172218750002,"end":8205.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8206.37721875,"end":8211.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8212.047218750002,"end":8214.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8214.679718750001,"end":8214.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8214.747218750003,"end":8220.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8220.55221875,"end":8222.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8222.847218750001,"end":8233.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8235.38534375,"end":8243.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8243.02971875,"end":8250.977843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8250.977843749999,"end":8252.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8253.67784375,"end":8268.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8269.540343749999,"end":8273.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8273.87721875,"end":8275.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8274.180968749999,"end":8274.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8275.379093750002,"end":8277.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8277.03284375,"end":8281.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8282.78721875,"end":8285.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8285.85846875,"end":8292.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8285.976593750001,"end":8286.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8286.027218750001,"end":8286.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8292.18659375,"end":8303.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8303.94846875,"end":8311.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8311.035968750002,"end":8321.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8321.97096875,"end":8323.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8324.29971875,"end":8331.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8331.89346875,"end":8333.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8333.024093750002,"end":8333.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8334.00284375,"end":8335.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8335.89284375,"end":8340.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8340.668468750002,"end":8342.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8342.76096875,"end":8344.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8344.262843750003,"end":8344.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8344.27971875,"end":8345.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8346.76034375,"end":8350.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8351.28284375,"end":8354.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8355.012218750002,"end":8355.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8356.14284375,"end":8383.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8366.38596875,"end":8366.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8366.723468750002,"end":8366.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8371.16159375,"end":8371.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8383.93596875,"end":8385.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8385.62346875,"end":8389.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8389.52159375,"end":8425.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8426.207843750002,"end":8441.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8441.665343750003,"end":8444.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8444.027843750002,"end":8445.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8446.00221875,"end":8448.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8448.63471875,"end":8449.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8449.63034375,"end":8470.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.032218750002,"end":8470.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8470.082843750002,"end":8470.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8470.977218750002,"end":8487.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8473.457843750002,"end":8473.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8487.97034375,"end":8489.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8490.265343750001,"end":8496.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8497.403468750003,"end":8499.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8499.36096875,"end":8501.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8503.562843750002,"end":8514.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8513.097218750001,"end":8518.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8518.868468750003,"end":8518.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8518.919093750003,"end":8519.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8519.003468750001,"end":8524.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8524.977218750002,"end":8531.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8531.96346875,"end":8536.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8537.07659375,"end":8543.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8543.691593750002,"end":8550.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8550.88034375,"end":8555.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8556.094718750002,"end":8559.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8559.030968750001,"end":8561.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8562.76034375,"end":8568.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8568.02534375,"end":8568.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8569.02096875,"end":8571.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8572.29471875,"end":8578.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8578.757843750001,"end":8580.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8582.706593750001,"end":8583.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8584.22534375,"end":8584.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8584.54596875,"end":8598.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8598.92346875,"end":8601.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8601.977843750003,"end":8605.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8605.605968750002,"end":8606.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8606.68596875,"end":8618.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8618.65034375,"end":8622.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8622.97034375,"end":8633.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8633.027843750002,"end":8633.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8633.11221875,"end":8633.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8633.26409375,"end":8633.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8633.280968750001,"end":8633.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8633.297843750002,"end":8633.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8634.64784375,"end":8636.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":8637.21284375,"end":8642.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8649.24471875,"end":8651.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8651.691593750002,"end":8653.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8653.851593750001,"end":8654.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8660.331593750001,"end":8661.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8661.242843750002,"end":8661.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8662.20471875,"end":8696.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8696.79846875,"end":8697.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8698.165343750003,"end":8701.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8701.995968750001,"end":8702.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8702.70471875,"end":8715.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8715.69846875,"end":8721.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8721.53721875,"end":8723.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8724.38909375,"end":8747.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8744.250968750002,"end":8744.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8747.727218750002,"end":8752.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8753.093468750001,"end":8775.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8775.419093750003,"end":8796.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8796.715343750002,"end":8824.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8824.89659375,"end":8872.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8873.20971875,"end":8875.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8875.57221875,"end":8880.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8881.69784375,"end":8886.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8887.300343750001,"end":8899.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8900.715968750003,"end":8927.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8920.949093750001,"end":8920.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8920.965968750003,"end":8921.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8921.28659375,"end":8921.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8928.30659375,"end":8940.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8940.777218750001,"end":8960.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8959.32284375,"end":8960.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8960.47034375,"end":8990.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8990.406593750002,"end":9009.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9010.234718750002,"end":9010.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9011.399093750002,"end":9022.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9022.941593750002,"end":9022.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9022.97534375,"end":9023.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9023.19471875,"end":9035.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9027.430343750002,"end":9029.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9036.45846875,"end":9038.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9038.770343750002,"end":9040.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9040.84596875,"end":9063.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9062.51346875,"end":9062.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9063.79596875,"end":9063.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9063.82971875,"end":9069.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9069.26346875,"end":9078.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9075.034718750001,"end":9075.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9078.96659375,"end":9114.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9115.72034375,"end":9123.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9123.516593750002,"end":9123.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9124.140968750002,"end":9133.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9132.88221875,"end":9133.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9133.18596875,"end":9160.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9158.684093750002,"end":9159.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9160.55721875,"end":9189.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":9169.04534375,"end":9169.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9189.66659375,"end":9195.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9195.387218750002,"end":9195.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9195.45471875,"end":9205.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9202.457843750002,"end":9203.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9204.465968750003,"end":9205.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9205.44471875,"end":9209.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9209.460968750001,"end":9214.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9214.38846875,"end":9229.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":9228.597218750001,"end":9234.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":9855.840968750003,"end":9867.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9876.90096875,"end":9880.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9881.33909375,"end":9882.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9882.38534375,"end":9884.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9885.01784375,"end":9894.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9894.82221875,"end":9912.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9912.59159375,"end":9927.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9921.04596875,"end":9921.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9928.082843750002,"end":9933.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9933.65159375,"end":9938.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9939.54096875,"end":9942.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9942.527843750002,"end":9949.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9949.81784375,"end":9953.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9954.559718750003,"end":9955.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":9954.82971875,"end":9955.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9956.09534375,"end":9959.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9959.74034375,"end":9963.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9964.11096875,"end":9965.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9966.18659375,"end":9966.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9967.148468750001,"end":9968.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9968.81909375,"end":9968.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9968.97096875,"end":9969.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9969.03846875,"end":9985.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9975.687218750001,"end":9976.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9983.58471875,"end":9984.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9985.035968750002,"end":9985.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9985.238468750002,"end":9986.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9986.301593750002,"end":9986.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9986.605343750001,"end":9986.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9986.976593750001,"end":9996.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9997.472843750002,"end":9997.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9998.33346875,"end":10007.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10008.99846875,"end":10016.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10010.399093750002,"end":10010.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10015.84971875,"end":10017.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10017.469718750002,"end":10021.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10021.01346875,"end":10030.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10029.88971875,"end":10030.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10030.919093750003,"end":10033.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10033.332218750002,"end":10038.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10038.58034375,"end":10056.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10057.750343750002,"end":10057.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10057.78409375,"end":10061.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10061.98596875,"end":10068.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10068.550343750001,"end":10069.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10069.95096875,"end":10075.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10075.60409375,"end":10076.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10077.13971875,"end":10089.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10089.120968750001,"end":10094.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10094.74034375,"end":10106.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10105.219718750002,"end":10105.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10105.945343750001,"end":10109.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10110.19784375,"end":10115.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10116.40784375,"end":10120.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10119.25971875,"end":10123.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10123.815968750001,"end":10128.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10124.085968750001,"end":10124.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10127.258468750002,"end":10130.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10131.66284375,"end":10132.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10132.06784375,"end":10138.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10138.109093750001,"end":10140.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10140.117218750001,"end":10140.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10140.62346875,"end":10151.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10150.664093750001,"end":10155.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10155.102218750002,"end":10156.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10156.097843750002,"end":10157.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10156.11471875,"end":10156.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10156.688468750002,"end":10157.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10157.464718750001,"end":10157.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10157.70096875,"end":10172.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10173.47909375,"end":10179.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10182.33846875,"end":10182.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10182.355343750001,"end":10189.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10189.24034375,"end":10189.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10189.847843750002,"end":10189.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10191.40034375,"end":10191.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10191.67034375,"end":10191.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10191.704093750002,"end":10198.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10193.442218750002,"end":10195.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10198.63971875,"end":10207.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10207.38096875,"end":10216.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10209.69284375,"end":10210.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10214.75534375,"end":10216.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":10216.30784375,"end":10221.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10221.42096875,"end":10228.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10228.62659375,"end":10228.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10228.64346875,"end":10230.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10231.191593750002,"end":10231.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10232.54159375,"end":10243.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10243.898468750001,"end":10250.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10250.88471875,"end":10257.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10256.875343750002,"end":10275.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10275.488468750002,"end":10277.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10278.35721875,"end":10310.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10310.554718750001,"end":10311.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10311.972218750001,"end":10330.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10330.281593750002,"end":10347.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10335.32721875,"end":10335.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10335.41159375,"end":10335.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10335.563468750002,"end":10335.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10345.570343750001,"end":10346.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10348.43909375,"end":10352.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10352.387843750003,"end":10373.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10374.527843750002,"end":10377.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10378.08846875,"end":10382.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10383.20159375,"end":10391.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10391.95971875,"end":10394.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10394.64284375,"end":10399.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10399.55346875,"end":10404.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10410.134093750003,"end":10426.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10428.730343750001,"end":10436.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10436.30721875,"end":10452.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10452.355343750001,"end":10454.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10454.565968750001,"end":10489.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10488.04596875,"end":10496.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10491.74159375,"end":10492.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10492.66971875,"end":10493.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10496.972843750002,"end":10503.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10497.074093750001,"end":10497.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10503.63846875,"end":10518.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10518.42096875,"end":10533.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10533.59159375,"end":10538.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10533.64221875,"end":10533.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10533.96284375,"end":10534.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10538.738468750002,"end":10543.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10543.817843750003,"end":10556.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10557.48659375,"end":10558.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10559.511593750001,"end":10559.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10559.528468750003,"end":10571.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10571.62784375,"end":10578.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10578.78284375,"end":10586.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10586.106593750003,"end":10588.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10587.743468750003,"end":10588.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10588.620968750001,"end":10597.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10595.23596875,"end":10600.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10600.93971875,"end":10603.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10601.00721875,"end":10616.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10615.114718750003,"end":10618.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10616.97096875,"end":10617.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10617.629093750002,"end":10623.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10621.78034375,"end":10625.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10624.51409375,"end":10629.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10627.905968750001,"end":10633.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10630.504718750002,"end":10634.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10634.993468750003,"end":10640.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10635.16221875,"end":10636.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10639.33034375,"end":10641.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10641.996593750002,"end":10642.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10642.90784375,"end":10644.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10644.105968750002,"end":10654.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10647.09284375,"end":10650.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10651.26096875,"end":10654.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10655.496593750002,"end":10659.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10659.023468750001,"end":10660.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10660.42409375,"end":10662.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10662.465968750003,"end":10663.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10664.00159375,"end":10665.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10665.503468750001,"end":10673.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10672.692218750002,"end":10678.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10678.68284375,"end":10682.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10682.294093750003,"end":10686.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10686.05721875,"end":10691.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10688.16659375,"end":10689.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10691.27159375,"end":10693.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10693.60034375,"end":10698.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10694.680343750002,"end":10700.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10700.839718750001,"end":10701.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10700.940968750001,"end":10712.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10701.852218750002,"end":10701.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10701.97034375,"end":10701.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10701.98721875,"end":10702.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10712.820968750002,"end":10740.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10740.968468750001,"end":10744.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10744.934093750002,"end":10749.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10748.410343750002,"end":10754.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10755.02534375,"end":10760.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10760.847218750001,"end":10764.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10765.11659375,"end":10768.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10768.609718750002,"end":10774.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10775.22471875,"end":10777.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10777.92471875,"end":10782.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10782.953468750002,"end":10783.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10784.15159375,"end":10785.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10785.754718750002,"end":10803.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10803.945968750002,"end":10803.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10803.96284375,"end":10811.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10811.759093750003,"end":10836.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10836.54846875,"end":10848.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10848.023468750001,"end":10858.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10859.97096875,"end":10869.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10869.15096875,"end":10873.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10873.909718750001,"end":10885.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10880.102843750003,"end":10880.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10886.312843750002,"end":10888.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10889.13096875,"end":10896.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10896.589718750001,"end":10898.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10899.32346875,"end":10914.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10915.050968750002,"end":10917.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10917.46409375,"end":10920.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10920.585968750001,"end":10937.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10937.781593750002,"end":10945.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10945.949093750001,"end":10968.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10968.949718750002,"end":10990.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10991.680343750002,"end":11000.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11001.46784375,"end":11003.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11004.437843750002,"end":11034.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11034.74534375,"end":11053.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11053.25721875,"end":11057.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11057.813468750002,"end":11063.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11063.669093750003,"end":11068.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11069.01846875,"end":11069.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11069.76096875,"end":11069.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11070.43596875,"end":11070.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11070.53721875,"end":11079.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11070.570968750002,"end":11071.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11071.90409375,"end":11072.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11079.97034375,"end":11080.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11080.020968750003,"end":11100.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11101.50284375,"end":11107.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11107.78034375,"end":11114.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11115.087218750003,"end":11115.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11115.77909375,"end":11126.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11126.37659375,"end":11127.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11127.16971875,"end":11127.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11127.321593750003,"end":11128.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11128.03034375,"end":11141.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11157.004718750002,"end":11157.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11157.96659375,"end":11159.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11160.379718750002,"end":11160.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11161.35846875,"end":11162.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11164.93596875,"end":11170.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11170.69034375,"end":11178.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11178.621593750002,"end":11182.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11183.32971875,"end":11186.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11187.261593750001,"end":11192.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11193.066593750002,"end":11195.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11196.610343750002,"end":11203.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11204.33909375,"end":11211.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11212.962218750003,"end":11216.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11216.860343750002,"end":11218.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11219.003468750001,"end":11220.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11220.52221875,"end":11220.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11221.19721875,"end":11222.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11223.15471875,"end":11229.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11230.613468750002,"end":11234.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11234.781593750002,"end":11237.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11238.645968750003,"end":11240.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11241.649718750003,"end":11245.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11243.337218750003,"end":11243.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11246.374718750001,"end":11247.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11248.399718750003,"end":11250.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11251.16721875,"end":11252.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11252.51721875,"end":11254.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11254.980968750002,"end":11255.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11256.415343750003,"end":11260.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11261.089718750001,"end":11261.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11262.422843750002,"end":11263.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11264.19471875,"end":11265.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11265.49409375,"end":11266.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11266.92846875,"end":11275.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11275.703468750002,"end":11277.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11278.36971875,"end":11278.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11278.42034375,"end":11278.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11279.972843750002,"end":11281.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11283.31409375,"end":11285.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11285.32221875,"end":11286.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11287.245968750001,"end":11288.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11288.511593750001,"end":11295.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11297.35409375,"end":11297.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11298.214718750001,"end":11299.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11300.239718750003,"end":11309.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11311.95096875,"end":11316.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11317.75596875,"end":11323.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11323.81409375,"end":11329.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11329.973468750002,"end":11336.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11338.84971875,"end":11339.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11341.043468750002,"end":11342.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11343.06846875,"end":11345.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11345.380343750003,"end":11346.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11347.43909375,"end":11349.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11349.49784375,"end":11352.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11353.19346875,"end":11354.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11354.52659375,"end":11355.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11357.26034375,"end":11357.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11358.762218750002,"end":11360.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11361.411593750003,"end":11362.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11363.774093750002,"end":11369.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11370.16971875,"end":11371.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11371.789718750002,"end":11373.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11374.40534375,"end":11376.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11376.56534375,"end":11377.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11378.13471875,"end":11379.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11380.29471875,"end":11381.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11381.762843750003,"end":11382.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11383.450343750003,"end":11383.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11385.019718750002,"end":11386.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11387.16284375,"end":11388.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11389.356593750003,"end":11390.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11390.942843750003,"end":11393.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11393.524718750003,"end":11394.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11395.887218750002,"end":11396.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11398.215968750003,"end":11399.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11400.055343750002,"end":11403.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11404.40909375,"end":11410.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11410.99034375,"end":11411.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11411.918468750002,"end":11412.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11412.880343750003,"end":11417.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11418.347843750002,"end":11422.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11423.410343750002,"end":11427.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11428.28721875,"end":11431.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11431.78034375,"end":11433.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11433.87284375,"end":11434.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11434.581593750001,"end":11447.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11447.828468750002,"end":11450.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11450.27534375,"end":11450.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11450.849093750003,"end":11457.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11458.61159375,"end":11459.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11460.062843750002,"end":11463.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11463.977843750003,"end":11465.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11466.20534375,"end":11471.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11471.520968750003,"end":11476.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11477.579093750002,"end":11484.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11484.750968750002,"end":11486.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11487.180968750003,"end":11494.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11493.458468750003,"end":11495.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11496.47909375,"end":11501.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11502.38534375,"end":11505.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11505.60846875,"end":11512.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11512.66221875,"end":11515.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11516.070968750002,"end":11516.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11516.374718750001,"end":11516.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11517.269093750001,"end":11522.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11523.546593750001,"end":11524.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11525.36909375,"end":11528.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11529.55409375,"end":11530.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11531.157218750002,"end":11545.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11546.192843750003,"end":11547.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11548.52159375,"end":11549.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11549.46659375,"end":11554.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11554.91721875,"end":11557.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11557.836593750002,"end":11563.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11563.43909375,"end":11586.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11586.794093750003,"end":11598.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11598.927218750003,"end":11603.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11604.05721875,"end":11608.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11607.719093750002,"end":11610.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11610.992843750002,"end":11618.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11619.19409375,"end":11624.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11624.745968750001,"end":11626.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11626.062218750001,"end":11626.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11626.112843750001,"end":11626.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11626.281593750002,"end":11641.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11642.07659375,"end":11643.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11643.71346875,"end":11644.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11645.13096875,"end":11655.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11655.964718750001,"end":11660.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11661.499718750001,"end":11668.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11669.582843750002,"end":11669.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11669.97096875,"end":11670.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11670.578468750002,"end":11671.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11671.962218750003,"end":11673.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11673.430343750002,"end":11674.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11677.379093750002,"end":11686.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11687.132843750001,"end":11688.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11689.090343750002,"end":11696.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11696.954093750002,"end":11701.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11701.72971875,"end":11718.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11713.47471875,"end":11714.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11714.031593750002,"end":11714.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11714.183468750001,"end":11714.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11715.246593750002,"end":11715.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11715.28034375,"end":11715.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11715.60096875,"end":11715.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11719.48221875,"end":11728.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11726.687843750002,"end":11726.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11756.35409375,"end":11761.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11764.11659375,"end":11767.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11773.245968750001,"end":11775.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":11776.300343750001,"end":11845.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11848.42409375,"end":11850.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11852.27159375,"end":11853.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11853.402218750001,"end":11853.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11853.43596875,"end":11855.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11853.824093750001,"end":11854.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11854.90409375,"end":11854.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11854.937843750002,"end":11855.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":11855.76471875,"end":11855.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11855.781593750002,"end":11856.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11856.92909375,"end":11874.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11875.52534375,"end":11885.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11886.19034375,"end":11889.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11886.274718750003,"end":11889.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11889.683468750001,"end":11892.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11892.957218750002,"end":11900.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11899.403468750003,"end":11899.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":11900.669093750003,"end":11901.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11901.141593750002,"end":11908.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11908.515968750002,"end":11910.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11911.097843750002,"end":11926.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11927.027843750002,"end":11938.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11940.12284375,"end":11948.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11948.442218750002,"end":11958.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11952.509093750003,"end":11952.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11958.617843750002,"end":11966.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11960.136593750001,"end":11960.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11965.587218750003,"end":11971.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11969.586593750002,"end":11971.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11971.544093750003,"end":11972.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11973.265343750001,"end":11977.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11977.58534375,"end":11979.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11980.16721875,"end":11985.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11985.60096875,"end":11989.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11990.39346875,"end":11995.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12000.113468750002,"end":12000.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12003.640343750001,"end":12016.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12017.190968750001,"end":12021.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12021.81471875,"end":12026.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12027.282218750002,"end":12029.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12030.03284375,"end":12031.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12031.973468750002,"end":12039.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12039.06096875,"end":12039.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12039.347843750002,"end":12043.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12043.515968750002,"end":12047.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12048.055343750002,"end":12056.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12057.57284375,"end":12058.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12062.06159375,"end":12066.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12065.21721875,"end":12080.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12067.90034375,"end":12068.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12073.587218750003,"end":12073.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12073.60409375,"end":12074.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12081.062843750002,"end":12095.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12093.887843750003,"end":12103.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12097.12784375,"end":12097.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12099.28784375,"end":12099.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12103.000343750002,"end":12104.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12104.40096875,"end":12114.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12109.26096875,"end":12109.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12110.661593750003,"end":12113.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12115.133468750002,"end":12117.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12121.47846875,"end":12123.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12127.01346875,"end":12136.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12136.63221875,"end":12136.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12138.083468750003,"end":12140.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12141.660968750002,"end":12144.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12148.15784375,"end":12149.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12151.43159375,"end":12151.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12151.44846875,"end":12159.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12161.77596875,"end":12164.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12164.324093750001,"end":12166.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12166.450343750003,"end":12173.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12175.02284375,"end":12175.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12175.292843750001,"end":12175.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12177.97596875,"end":12178.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12178.97159375,"end":12179.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12180.945968750002,"end":12181.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12181.367843750002,"end":12186.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12181.50284375,"end":12182.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12182.262218750002,"end":12190.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12186.02534375,"end":12186.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12187.864718750003,"end":12188.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12189.383468750002,"end":12190.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12190.78409375,"end":12191.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12190.800968750002,"end":12199.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12192.336593750002,"end":12193.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12196.285343750002,"end":12199.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12199.57596875,"end":12201.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12201.68534375,"end":12204.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12201.989093750002,"end":12202.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12202.44471875,"end":12202.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12202.714718750001,"end":12206.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12204.570968750002,"end":12204.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12204.63846875,"end":12210.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12212.08034375,"end":12213.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12218.070968750002,"end":12220.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12223.94346875,"end":12224.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12224.972843750002,"end":12227.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12228.22971875,"end":12231.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12232.38096875,"end":12240.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":12240.329093750002,"end":12240.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12240.66659375,"end":12244.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12245.08784375,"end":12245.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12251.247218750003,"end":12252.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12252.47909375,"end":12292.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12292.13534375,"end":12304.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12292.169093750003,"end":12292.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12303.32346875,"end":12309.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12305.41596875,"end":12305.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12307.238468750002,"end":12307.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12310.259093750003,"end":12314.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12310.69784375,"end":12311.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12314.86596875,"end":12316.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12316.671593750001,"end":12322.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12322.527218750001,"end":12325.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12326.003468750001,"end":12326.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12326.121593750002,"end":12329.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12327.269093750001,"end":12335.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12335.43659375,"end":12340.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12341.207843750002,"end":12341.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12342.97971875,"end":12347.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12347.755343750003,"end":12355.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12355.028468750003,"end":12369.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12355.04534375,"end":12355.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":12365.828468750002,"end":12365.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12369.70971875,"end":12372.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12372.96659375,"end":12380.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12380.89784375,"end":12386.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12387.495968750001,"end":12391.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12391.815968750001,"end":12397.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12397.13159375,"end":12399.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12399.426593750002,"end":12400.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12400.489718750003,"end":12403.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12401.384093750003,"end":12401.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12402.784718750001,"end":12413.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12412.234718750002,"end":12417.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12413.669093750003,"end":12413.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12419.524718750003,"end":12429.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12428.687843750002,"end":12431.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12429.480968750002,"end":12429.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12429.531593750002,"end":12429.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12431.97846875,"end":12437.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12435.589718750001,"end":12437.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12437.277218750001,"end":12437.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12437.294093750003,"end":12437.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12437.327843750001,"end":12438.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12438.036593750003,"end":12446.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12440.90534375,"end":12442.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12445.242218750001,"end":12453.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12453.105968750002,"end":12461.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12461.644718750002,"end":12464.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12464.867843750002,"end":12480.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12480.679718750001,"end":12499.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12499.95096875,"end":12505.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12500.187218750001,"end":12500.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12504.01784375,"end":12532.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12532.300343750001,"end":12533.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12534.17346875,"end":12539.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12538.898468750001,"end":12550.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12550.22159375,"end":12562.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12563.08034375,"end":12575.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12573.492218750001,"end":12580.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12577.019093750001,"end":12578.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12580.815968750001,"end":12580.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12580.90034375,"end":12646.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12646.08846875,"end":12653.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12654.37409375,"end":12672.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12673.004093750002,"end":12677.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12677.172218750002,"end":12678.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12677.273468750001,"end":12677.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12678.72471875,"end":12752.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12752.957843750002,"end":12769.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12770.153468750003,"end":12792.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12793.10346875,"end":12793.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12793.457843750002,"end":12793.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12794.41971875,"end":12795.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12795.044093750003,"end":12844.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12845.16284375,"end":12859.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":12857.19471875,"end":12857.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12857.211593750002,"end":12865.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12865.547843750002,"end":12865.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12866.324093750001,"end":12873.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":12875.099093750003,"end":12875.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12875.36909375,"end":12890.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12890.539718750002,"end":12901.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12899.939093750003,"end":12903.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12905.01846875,"end":12914.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12914.417843750001,"end":12924.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12924.79596875,"end":12925.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12924.94784375,"end":12927.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12926.63534375,"end":12931.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12930.499718750001,"end":12938.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12937.367843750002,"end":12940.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12939.81471875,"end":12955.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12956.453468750002,"end":12958.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12959.153468750003,"end":12995.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12995.99159375,"end":13006.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13005.27284375,"end":13007.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13006.63971875,"end":13012.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13011.347843750002,"end":13011.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13012.64721875,"end":13028.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13028.72909375,"end":13029.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13029.437843750002,"end":13031.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13031.09159375,"end":13039.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13039.02284375,"end":13039.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13039.731593750003,"end":13092.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13039.74846875,"end":13041.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13044.456593750001,"end":13046.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13046.835968750001,"end":13046.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13051.122218750003,"end":13051.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13051.18971875,"end":13051.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13051.56096875,"end":13051.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13051.695968750002,"end":13051.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13051.93221875,"end":13051.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13056.25221875,"end":13058.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13059.711593750002,"end":13059.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13059.72846875,"end":13060.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13060.454093750002,"end":13060.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13080.265343750001,"end":13080.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13080.282218750002,"end":13080.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13086.492218750001,"end":13087.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13087.032218750002,"end":13088.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13088.43284375,"end":13088.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13088.63534375,"end":13088.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13088.88846875,"end":13089.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13089.023468750001,"end":13090.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13090.086593750002,"end":13090.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13092.044093750003,"end":13092.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13092.26346875,"end":13092.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13095.18284375,"end":13099.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13107.484718750002,"end":13127.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13132.93221875,"end":13184.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13184.367218750001,"end":13200.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13200.90471875,"end":13268.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13268.708468750003,"end":13281.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13282.360343750002,"end":13295.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13296.535343750002,"end":13305.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13306.05284375,"end":13306.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13307.099093750003,"end":13311.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13312.465343750002,"end":13315.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13316.160968750002,"end":13316.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13317.12284375,"end":13319.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13320.329093750002,"end":13321.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13321.72971875,"end":13334.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13335.43221875,"end":13339.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13340.005343750003,"end":13358.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13358.972843750002,"end":13369.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13369.958468750003,"end":13391.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13392.402218750001,"end":13462.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13462.821593750003,"end":13487.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13487.965343750002,"end":13487.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13489.73721875,"end":13501.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13490.05784375,"end":13490.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13501.887218750002,"end":13557.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13557.456593750001,"end":13579.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13580.254718750002,"end":13581.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13581.63846875,"end":13583.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13584.034718750001,"end":13584.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13584.996593750002,"end":13615.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13615.70909375,"end":13643.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13643.99159375,"end":13657.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13657.390343750001,"end":13674.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13657.64346875,"end":13658.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13675.29471875,"end":13689.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13689.21659375,"end":13694.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13694.987843750001,"end":13700.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13700.843468750001,"end":13719.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13719.76034375,"end":13783.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13769.37284375,"end":13769.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13769.507843750001,"end":13769.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":13769.59221875,"end":13769.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13783.547843750002,"end":13794.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13794.735968750003,"end":13794.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13794.786593750003,"end":13794.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13794.80346875,"end":13795.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13795.74846875,"end":13827.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13828.92471875,"end":13831.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13832.282843750003,"end":13833.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13833.49784375,"end":13835.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13835.370968750001,"end":13863.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13863.34971875,"end":13863.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13863.40034375,"end":13863.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13863.41721875,"end":13863.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13863.434093750002,"end":13863.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13863.855968750002,"end":13864.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13864.395968750003,"end":13867.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13868.175968750002,"end":13868.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13868.192843750003,"end":13873.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15257.410343750002,"end":15258.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15259.418468750002,"end":15261.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15266.438468750002,"end":15267.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15268.56471875,"end":15269.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15270.977843750003,"end":15273.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15288.966593750003,"end":15289.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15290.097218750001,"end":15290.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15290.82284375,"end":15292.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15299.344718750002,"end":15299.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15300.188468750002,"end":15304.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15304.559093750002,"end":15308.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15308.44034375,"end":15310.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15310.954718750003,"end":15311.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15311.933468750001,"end":15315.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15315.899093750002,"end":15317.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15317.535968750002,"end":15329.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15330.22596875,"end":15332.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15333.246593750002,"end":15335.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":15335.575343750003,"end":15335.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15335.76096875,"end":15340.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15341.12721875,"end":15344.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15345.34596875,"end":15346.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15346.78034375,"end":15348.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15348.77159375,"end":15351.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15351.89346875,"end":15353.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15353.36159375,"end":15354.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15354.610343750002,"end":15360.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15361.090343750002,"end":15362.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15363.23346875,"end":15367.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15367.317218750002,"end":15378.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15379.298468750003,"end":15381.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15382.15034375,"end":15382.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15383.517218750003,"end":15387.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15387.80346875,"end":15388.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15389.136593750001,"end":15394.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15394.92471875,"end":15395.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15395.279093750003,"end":15400.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15401.03346875,"end":15421.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15422.76846875,"end":15438.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15438.934718750003,"end":15450.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15450.595343750003,"end":15450.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15451.28721875,"end":15454.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15454.341593750003,"end":15457.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15458.020343750002,"end":15465.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15465.546593750001,"end":15469.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15469.765343750001,"end":15469.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15469.79909375,"end":15491.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15492.023468750001,"end":15495.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15495.044093750003,"end":15506.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15495.06096875,"end":15495.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15508.122218750003,"end":15516.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15516.69471875,"end":15517.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15517.808468750001,"end":15524.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15524.474093750003,"end":15548.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15535.155968750001,"end":15535.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15538.699718750002,"end":15538.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15540.657218750002,"end":15540.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":15540.67409375,"end":15541.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15548.892218750003,"end":15558.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15558.207218750002,"end":15564.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15564.737843750001,"end":15569.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15570.036593750003,"end":15579.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15580.988468750002,"end":15581.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15581.96721875,"end":15595.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15595.93971875,"end":15598.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15598.47096875,"end":15599.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15599.78721875,"end":15602.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15602.622218750003,"end":15603.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15604.309718750003,"end":15608.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15609.43971875,"end":15638.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15638.76846875,"end":15668.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15654.141593750002,"end":15656.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15668.907218750002,"end":15669.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15669.312218750001,"end":15680.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15672.974093750003,"end":15673.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15681.344093750002,"end":15690.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15690.254093750002,"end":15690.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15690.96284375,"end":15692.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15693.595343750003,"end":15694.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15695.755343750003,"end":15697.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15697.949093750001,"end":15699.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15700.68284375,"end":15720.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15720.66284375,"end":15722.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15724.004093750002,"end":15725.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15725.30346875,"end":15736.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15736.54221875,"end":15736.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15736.59284375,"end":15736.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15736.64346875,"end":15743.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15743.157218750002,"end":15748.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15748.55721875,"end":15748.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15749.02971875,"end":15762.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15762.68159375,"end":15768.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15769.296593750001,"end":15779.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15778.645343750002,"end":15783.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15782.99909375,"end":15793.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15794.676593750002,"end":15795.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15794.71034375,"end":15802.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15800.414093750001,"end":15801.173468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15801.409718750001,"end":15801.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15801.49409375,"end":15802.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15802.169093750003,"end":15802.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15802.742843750002,"end":15807.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15808.395968750003,"end":15817.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15817.52534375,"end":15817.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15817.559093750002,"end":15817.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15817.829093750002,"end":15826.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15827.093468750001,"end":15828.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15829.017218750003,"end":15833.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15834.282218750002,"end":15835.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15836.30721875,"end":15836.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15837.404093750003,"end":15849.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15850.617218750001,"end":15851.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15851.91659375,"end":15852.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15852.55784375,"end":15854.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15854.785343750002,"end":15856.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15857.62034375,"end":15859.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15859.341593750003,"end":15860.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15861.130343750003,"end":15862.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15863.239718750003,"end":15863.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15863.864093750002,"end":15864.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15865.36596875,"end":15865.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15866.395343750002,"end":15866.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15866.68221875,"end":15868.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15868.977218750002,"end":15870.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15870.732218750003,"end":15872.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15872.132843750001,"end":15872.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15874.00596875,"end":15874.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15875.136593750001,"end":15875.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15876.33471875,"end":15876.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15877.465343750002,"end":15879.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15879.355343750001,"end":15887.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15887.894093750001,"end":15897.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15898.761593750001,"end":15900.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15899.605343750001,"end":15900.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15900.685343750003,"end":15903.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15901.394093750001,"end":15902.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15902.355968750002,"end":15902.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15904.414718750002,"end":15905.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15906.50721875,"end":15908.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15908.144093750001,"end":15932.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15908.515343750001,"end":15908.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15915.19784375,"end":15915.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15915.535343750002,"end":15915.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15915.78846875,"end":15915.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15915.855968750002,"end":15915.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15933.18659375,"end":15942.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15943.24409375,"end":15951.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15951.664718750002,"end":15953.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15953.16659375,"end":15953.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15953.38596875,"end":15957.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15957.65534375,"end":15959.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15960.96284375,"end":15961.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15961.688468750002,"end":15962.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15962.380343750003,"end":15964.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15968.45534375,"end":15969.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15969.56909375,"end":15970.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15970.328468750002,"end":15970.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15970.817843750003,"end":15973.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15974.496593750002,"end":15974.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15978.614093750002,"end":15979.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":15980.099093750003,"end":15980.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15980.672843750002,"end":15988.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15989.481593750003,"end":15992.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15992.957843750002,"end":15995.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15996.062843750002,"end":15997.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":15997.66596875,"end":16001.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16000.821593750003,"end":16004.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16002.00284375,"end":16002.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16004.331593750001,"end":16004.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16004.719718750002,"end":16005.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16005.597218750001,"end":16008.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16008.989093750002,"end":16013.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16013.106593750003,"end":16013.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16013.12346875,"end":16022.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16013.157218750002,"end":16013.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16013.511593750001,"end":16013.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16017.257843750001,"end":16017.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16017.29159375,"end":16017.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16022.30346875,"end":16025.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16025.391593750002,"end":16030.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16031.449718750002,"end":16039.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16040.39346875,"end":16042.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16042.50284375,"end":16044.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16045.28721875,"end":16054.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16054.551593750002,"end":16062.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16063.107218750003,"end":16063.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16063.157843750003,"end":16063.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16063.17471875,"end":16063.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16063.714718750001,"end":16064.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16064.777843750002,"end":16067.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16067.69721875,"end":16070.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16070.987843750001,"end":16071.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16072.388468750003,"end":16074.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16075.476593750001,"end":16076.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16075.628468750001,"end":16075.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16075.78034375,"end":16075.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16077.704093750002,"end":16079.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16078.88534375,"end":16083.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16083.542843750001,"end":16088.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16088.284718750001,"end":16089.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16089.80346875,"end":16092.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16092.65534375,"end":16094.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16093.92096875,"end":16095.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16096.03034375,"end":16098.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16098.747218750003,"end":16102.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16102.594718750002,"end":16103.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16103.607218750003,"end":16104.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16104.737843750001,"end":16111.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16108.973468750002,"end":16109.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16111.386593750001,"end":16116.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16114.54221875,"end":16115.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16115.33534375,"end":16115.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16115.43659375,"end":16115.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16115.554718750001,"end":16115.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16115.95971875,"end":16115.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16115.976593750001,"end":16116.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16116.11159375,"end":16116.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16116.22971875,"end":16116.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16116.398468750001,"end":16116.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16116.75284375,"end":16119.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16116.972218750001,"end":16117.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16117.49534375,"end":16117.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16118.91284375,"end":16119.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16119.081593750001,"end":16119.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16119.149093750002,"end":16119.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16119.351593750001,"end":16119.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16119.368468750003,"end":16119.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16119.48659375,"end":16119.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16119.97596875,"end":16120.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16120.02659375,"end":16121.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16120.904093750003,"end":16124.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16125.747218750003,"end":16126.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16127.232218750003,"end":16158.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16130.20221875,"end":16131.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16136.58096875,"end":16137.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":16158.754718750002,"end":16191.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16163.20971875,"end":16163.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16167.85034375,"end":16168.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16177.87409375,"end":16178.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16189.500968750002,"end":16190.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16190.344718750002,"end":16190.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16192.774718750003,"end":16194.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16194.917843750001,"end":16196.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16197.077843750001,"end":16197.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16206.19034375,"end":16208.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16216.011593750001,"end":16235.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16236.008468750002,"end":16246.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16246.99409375,"end":16251.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16251.80346875,"end":16257.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16258.97534375,"end":16281.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16281.030968750001,"end":16296.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16296.977843750003,"end":16298.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16300.352843750003,"end":16305.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16302.664718750002,"end":16306.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16306.984718750002,"end":16316.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16315.65846875,"end":16315.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16315.692218750002,"end":16317.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16317.970343750003,"end":16327.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16327.065968750001,"end":16362.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16327.082843750002,"end":16328.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16362.55409375,"end":16363.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16363.785968750002,"end":16367.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16367.565968750001,"end":16370.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16370.687843750002,"end":16371.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16372.020968750003,"end":16373.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16374.19784375,"end":16374.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16375.328468750002,"end":16380.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16380.52596875,"end":16381.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16381.724093750003,"end":16388.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16387.005968750003,"end":16404.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16389.554093749997,"end":16389.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16403.62784375,"end":16436.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16404.859718749998,"end":16406.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16407.458468750003,"end":16407.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16436.449718750002,"end":16443.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16443.975968749997,"end":16445.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16445.967218750004,"end":16446.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16446.996593750002,"end":16447.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16447.013468750003,"end":16452.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16453.17284375,"end":16455.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16458.23534375,"end":16464.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16462.38659375,"end":16462.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16463.871593750002,"end":16470.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16470.28409375,"end":16495.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16495.25909375,"end":16495.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16495.562843749998,"end":16497.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16498.364093750002,"end":16504.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16504.21971875,"end":16504.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16504.64159375,"end":16506.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16506.295343750004,"end":16519.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16519.44096875,"end":16522.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16519.474718750003,"end":16519.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16523.00159375,"end":16532.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16533.936593749997,"end":16534.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16534.10534375,"end":16534.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16534.965968750003,"end":16536.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16536.70409375,"end":16550.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16551.857843750004,"end":16553.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16553.427218750003,"end":16553.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16555.772843749997,"end":16556.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16556.835968749998,"end":16558.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16558.87784375,"end":16558.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16558.99596875,"end":16561.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16561.797218749998,"end":16561.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16561.84784375,"end":16561.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16561.864718750003,"end":16561.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16563.11346875,"end":16563.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16564.66596875,"end":16570.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16570.622843750003,"end":16596.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16596.30659375,"end":16596.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16596.357218750003,"end":16596.374093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":16596.374093749997,"end":16596.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16596.54284375,"end":16596.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16596.576593750004,"end":16597.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16597.03221875,"end":16597.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16597.89284375,"end":16599.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16600.22159375,"end":16602.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16613.40096875,"end":16616.624093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16623.390968749998,"end":16623.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16623.40784375,"end":16623.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16623.559718750003,"end":16623.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16623.897218750004,"end":16623.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16623.998468750004,"end":16635.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16636.030343749997,"end":16636.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16636.09784375,"end":16654.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16656.499718749998,"end":16657.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16657.866593749997,"end":16660.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16660.077218749997,"end":16661.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16661.224718750003,"end":16661.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16661.882843749998,"end":16662.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16663.435343750003,"end":16667.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16668.04221875,"end":16674.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16674.75846875,"end":16678.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16677.559718750003,"end":16683.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16679.905343749997,"end":16680.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16686.216593750003,"end":16691.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16690.857218750003,"end":16692.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16692.69659375,"end":16694.147843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16693.67534375,"end":16695.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16694.90721875,"end":16696.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16696.18971875,"end":16730.952218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16731.070343749998,"end":16733.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16733.61846875,"end":16739.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16739.76096875,"end":16740.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16740.82409375,"end":16746.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16746.91596875,"end":16770.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16770.692843750003,"end":16775.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16775.687843749998,"end":16776.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16777.69596875,"end":16778.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16778.45534375,"end":16784.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16784.614718750003,"end":16787.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16787.264093750004,"end":16789.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16789.44096875,"end":16791.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16790.976593749998,"end":16791.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16791.381593750004,"end":16791.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16791.398468749998,"end":16795.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16795.364093750002,"end":16798.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16797.55784375,"end":16799.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16799.86971875,"end":16800.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16800.342218750004,"end":16800.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16800.37596875,"end":16800.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16801.945343749998,"end":16804.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16804.40909375,"end":16816.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16816.052843750003,"end":16827.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16828.03409375,"end":16830.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16830.78471875,"end":16831.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16830.818468750003,"end":16832.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16831.797218749998,"end":16832.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16832.910968750002,"end":16834.311593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16834.193468750003,"end":16837.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16837.60221875,"end":16839.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16839.94784375,"end":16842.225968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16841.75346875,"end":16843.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16844.26784375,"end":16845.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16845.61784375,"end":16847.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16848.06471875,"end":16848.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16848.115343750003,"end":16852.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16848.57096875,"end":16848.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":16851.43971875,"end":16851.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16851.45659375,"end":16851.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16852.857218750003,"end":16853.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16853.194718749997,"end":16857.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16857.413468749997,"end":16859.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16859.809718750003,"end":16860.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16862.442218750002,"end":16863.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16863.77534375,"end":16865.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16865.66534375,"end":16866.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16866.71159375,"end":16874.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16874.98034375,"end":16877.342843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16876.802843750003,"end":16882.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16879.030343749997,"end":16880.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16883.40096875,"end":16884.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16885.08846875,"end":16890.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16890.944093750004,"end":16893.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16891.889093750004,"end":16892.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16893.96471875,"end":16894.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16894.06596875,"end":16898.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16898.537843750004,"end":16907.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16910.94096875,"end":16916.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16913.910968750002,"end":16914.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16916.273468749998,"end":16921.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":16921.319093750004,"end":16925.014718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16924.94721875,"end":16946.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16947.340343750002,"end":16950.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16951.154093750003,"end":16958.342843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16959.23721875,"end":16971.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16969.193468750003,"end":16969.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16971.37034375,"end":16972.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16972.028468750003,"end":16973.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16973.34471875,"end":16987.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16987.70534375,"end":16991.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16991.08034375,"end":17005.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":16991.333468750003,"end":16991.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17005.187843749998,"end":17020.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17005.812218749998,"end":17007.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17021.067218750002,"end":17033.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17034.246593750002,"end":17035.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17035.91721875,"end":17043.882218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17044.25346875,"end":17049.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17049.552218750003,"end":17065.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17066.224718750003,"end":17070.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17069.380343750003,"end":17222.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17099.19846875,"end":17099.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17099.215343750002,"end":17100.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17100.059093750002,"end":17100.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17222.68971875,"end":17223.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17224.326593750004,"end":17227.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17227.600343750004,"end":17240.577218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17241.06659375,"end":17241.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17242.163468749997,"end":17247.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17249.031593749998,"end":17253.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17253.351593749998,"end":17254.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17254.75221875,"end":17258.194718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17258.76846875,"end":17259.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17259.038468749997,"end":17259.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17259.05534375,"end":17259.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17259.08909375,"end":17259.139718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17259.139718749997,"end":17259.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17259.17346875,"end":17259.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17259.460343749997,"end":17267.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17266.90221875,"end":17273.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17274.27659375,"end":17277.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17277.989093750002,"end":17280.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17279.794718750003,"end":17282.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17283.01784375,"end":17285.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17285.97096875,"end":17288.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17289.66659375,"end":17289.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17290.62846875,"end":17292.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17293.092218750004,"end":17294.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17294.72909375,"end":17295.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17295.48846875,"end":17297.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17297.749718749998,"end":17301.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17302.035968750002,"end":17309.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":17308.21221875,"end":17308.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17311.047218749998,"end":17314.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17315.974718750003,"end":17316.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17316.56534375,"end":17320.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17321.357843750004,"end":17321.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17322.06659375,"end":17322.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17323.484093749998,"end":17324.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17325.492218749998,"end":17328.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17328.37784375,"end":17330.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17330.942843750003,"end":17336.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17336.15721875,"end":17444.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17341.793468750002,"end":17342.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17346.19784375,"end":17346.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17388.115343750003,"end":17388.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":17432.80034375,"end":17433.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17439.803468750004,"end":17440.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17444.07284375,"end":17447.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17448.81471875,"end":17453.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17455.12596875,"end":17464.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17466.044093750003,"end":17466.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17467.15784375,"end":17468.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17468.929718749998,"end":17472.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17472.10221875,"end":17476.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17473.654718750004,"end":17474.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17475.105968750002,"end":17475.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17476.65846875,"end":17487.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17485.93971875,"end":17511.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17487.32346875,"end":17488.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17495.777843750002,"end":17496.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17511.184718750003,"end":17516.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17517.445343749998,"end":17520.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17518.86284375,"end":17522.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17522.609093749998,"end":17525.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17526.304718749998,"end":17530.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17530.844093749998,"end":17532.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17532.835343749997,"end":17533.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17534.25284375,"end":17535.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17536.44659375,"end":17537.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17537.71221875,"end":17540.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17540.76659375,"end":17547.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17545.154093750003,"end":17557.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17554.68846875,"end":17554.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":17554.739093750002,"end":17555.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":17559.00846875,"end":17562.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17567.86784375,"end":17568.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17568.677843750003,"end":17569.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17578.98846875,"end":17579.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17580.10221875,"end":17580.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17580.96284375,"end":17591.897843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17594.125343749998,"end":17599.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17599.677218750003,"end":17599.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17599.879718750002,"end":17608.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17600.520968750003,"end":17600.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17601.01034375,"end":17601.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17608.857218750003,"end":17609.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17609.66721875,"end":17611.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17612.367218749998,"end":17627.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17623.082843750002,"end":17623.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17627.031593749998,"end":17630.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17631.098468750002,"end":17631.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17631.857843750004,"end":17635.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17635.975343750004,"end":17637.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17638.21971875,"end":17657.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17657.74409375,"end":17664.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17664.966593750003,"end":17695.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17695.375343749998,"end":17711.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17712.18284375,"end":17718.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17718.73034375,"end":17731.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17731.25159375,"end":17731.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17731.80846875,"end":17731.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17731.97721875,"end":17731.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17731.99409375,"end":17732.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17732.027843750002,"end":17743.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17735.80784375,"end":17738.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17743.19909375,"end":17746.405343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":17746.405343749997,"end":17746.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17747.18159375,"end":17755.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17754.65721875,"end":17761.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17756.108468749997,"end":17756.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17759.500343749998,"end":17761.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17761.96409375,"end":17764.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17764.950968750003,"end":17767.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17768.15721875,"end":17780.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17781.04971875,"end":17783.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17783.02409375,"end":17783.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17784.00284375,"end":17784.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17784.01971875,"end":17790.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17790.97221875,"end":17792.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17792.62596875,"end":17792.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17792.64284375,"end":17794.920968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17794.97159375,"end":17802.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17800.607843750004,"end":17800.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17802.02534375,"end":17807.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17803.18971875,"end":17805.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17807.965343750002,"end":17808.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17808.65721875,"end":17808.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17808.97784375,"end":17810.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17810.969093749998,"end":17814.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17814.411593750003,"end":17851.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17852.903468750003,"end":17853.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17853.780968749998,"end":17854.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17854.304093749997,"end":17871.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17871.85409375,"end":17871.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":17875.465343750002,"end":17877.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":17877.490343750003,"end":17880.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17889.522218750004,"end":17890.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17890.973468750002,"end":17891.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17900.676593750002,"end":17901.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17901.40221875,"end":17902.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17902.937843749998,"end":17904.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17905.435343750003,"end":17905.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17906.093468749998,"end":17907.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17908.13534375,"end":17909.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17909.670968749997,"end":17910.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17910.278468750003,"end":17911.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17912.86034375,"end":17913.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17916.741593749997,"end":17916.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17916.944093750004,"end":17916.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17916.97784375,"end":17919.795968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17919.981593750003,"end":17923.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17924.18346875,"end":17928.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17929.364093750002,"end":17934.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17934.679718749998,"end":17934.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17934.91596875,"end":17936.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17935.270343750002,"end":17935.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17936.873468750004,"end":17937.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17937.734093749998,"end":17939.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17940.889718749997,"end":17941.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17942.239718750003,"end":17943.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17943.57284375,"end":17944.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17945.209718750004,"end":17946.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17947.15034375,"end":17948.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17950.812218749998,"end":17952.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17952.786593750003,"end":17954.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17954.929718749998,"end":17959.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17960.177843750003,"end":17963.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17964.00846875,"end":17966.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17967.164093749998,"end":17970.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17971.01159375,"end":17971.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17971.062218749998,"end":17972.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17973.01971875,"end":17975.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17975.93909375,"end":17980.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17979.482843750004,"end":17980.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17980.91721875,"end":17987.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17988.105968750002,"end":17991.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17991.953468749998,"end":17998.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17998.75409375,"end":17999.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18000.475343750004,"end":18009.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18009.14909375,"end":18011.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18012.169718750003,"end":18015.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18017.147843749997,"end":18020.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18020.624093749997,"end":18021.467843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18022.834718750004,"end":18028.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18028.99409375,"end":18030.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18030.68159375,"end":18033.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18033.246593750002,"end":18033.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18033.685343750003,"end":18035.811593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18035.96346875,"end":18036.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18036.857843750004,"end":18036.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18036.975968749997,"end":18037.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18037.02659375,"end":18037.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18038.27534375,"end":18038.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18038.29221875,"end":18047.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18047.43846875,"end":18048.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18048.366593749997,"end":18056.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18056.12909375,"end":18059.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18057.529718750004,"end":18058.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18060.145343750002,"end":18063.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18063.90846875,"end":18067.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18069.240968750004,"end":18072.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18073.544093750003,"end":18074.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18074.624093749997,"end":18075.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18075.653468750003,"end":18076.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18076.699718750002,"end":18079.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18080.530343749997,"end":18082.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18083.348468750002,"end":18084.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18085.710968749998,"end":18088.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18089.22096875,"end":18093.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18094.232843750004,"end":18095.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18095.21159375,"end":18097.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18097.75971875,"end":18098.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18099.480968750002,"end":18100.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18100.29096875,"end":18100.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18101.185343750003,"end":18109.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18110.280968749998,"end":18111.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18112.42409375,"end":18114.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18114.53346875,"end":18115.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18115.68096875,"end":18118.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18118.22909375,"end":18120.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18120.45659375,"end":18121.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18122.734718749998,"end":18124.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18125.08034375,"end":18127.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18128.13471875,"end":18129.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18131.459093750003,"end":18133.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18134.429093749997,"end":18137.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18137.669093750003,"end":18140.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18140.942843750003,"end":18151.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18145.077218749997,"end":18145.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18151.25346875,"end":18152.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18153.480968750002,"end":18156.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18157.14284375,"end":18157.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18157.176593750002,"end":18159.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18160.163468749997,"end":18164.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18163.420343750004,"end":18164.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18164.19659375,"end":18164.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18164.247218750003,"end":18165.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18164.65221875,"end":18165.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18165.934718750003,"end":18167.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18167.723468750002,"end":18168.280343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18168.87096875,"end":18170.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18170.693468750003,"end":18172.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18173.545343750004,"end":18175.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18176.414093749998,"end":18177.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18177.443468750003,"end":18180.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18180.413468749997,"end":18181.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18182.624093749997,"end":18187.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18189.239093750002,"end":18190.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18191.770343750002,"end":18193.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18193.72784375,"end":18195.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18195.87096875,"end":18197.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18197.474093750003,"end":18198.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18199.819718749997,"end":18202.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18202.755968750003,"end":18211.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18212.10471875,"end":18217.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18217.79159375,"end":18218.483468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18219.411593750003,"end":18225.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18225.82409375,"end":18227.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18226.02659375,"end":18226.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18228.01784375,"end":18229.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18229.90784375,"end":18231.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18230.04284375,"end":18231.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18232.489718750003,"end":18235.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18232.844093749998,"end":18233.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18235.257218749997,"end":18238.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18238.54784375,"end":18240.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18240.505343750003,"end":18242.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18241.585343749997,"end":18241.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18242.412218750003,"end":18243.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18243.694718749997,"end":18246.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18246.344093749998,"end":18255.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18256.418468750002,"end":18262.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18262.59471875,"end":18263.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18263.826593750004,"end":18266.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18265.075343750003,"end":18265.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18265.12596875,"end":18265.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18265.193468750003,"end":18265.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":18265.395968750003,"end":18265.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18265.46346875,"end":18265.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18266.29034375,"end":18266.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18267.33659375,"end":18267.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18267.75846875,"end":18267.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18267.91034375,"end":18268.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18268.028468750003,"end":18268.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18268.652843750002,"end":18273.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18272.702843749998,"end":18272.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18273.023468749998,"end":18273.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18273.04034375,"end":18273.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18273.14159375,"end":18273.225968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18273.225968749997,"end":18281.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18282.372218750003,"end":18289.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18291.18096875,"end":18292.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18294.04971875,"end":18298.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18299.21346875,"end":18301.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18301.93034375,"end":18303.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18303.43221875,"end":18305.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18305.794718750003,"end":18307.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18307.63409375,"end":18315.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18315.312218749998,"end":18315.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18315.379718750002,"end":18319.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18320.037218750003,"end":18321.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18320.577218749997,"end":18321.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18322.905968749998,"end":18324.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18323.732843750004,"end":18335.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18335.93346875,"end":18338.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18339.679718749998,"end":18341.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18342.396593750003,"end":18367.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18367.33784375,"end":18371.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18372.670343750004,"end":18377.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18377.209718750004,"end":18377.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18377.513468750003,"end":18378.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18378.171593749998,"end":18378.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18378.272843749997,"end":18378.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18378.340343750002,"end":18379.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18379.03221875,"end":18379.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18379.538468749997,"end":18379.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18379.55534375,"end":18381.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18381.225968749997,"end":18381.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18382.12034375,"end":18382.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":18383.841593750003,"end":18384.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18384.246593750002,"end":18385.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18385.71471875,"end":18390.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18391.06409375,"end":18396.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18396.497843750003,"end":18405.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18403.43346875,"end":18408.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18408.79971875,"end":18410.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18410.942843750003,"end":18411.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18411.65159375,"end":18412.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18412.91721875,"end":18415.077218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18415.98846875,"end":18417.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18417.270968750003,"end":18420.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18422.687843749998,"end":18428.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18428.72909375,"end":18430.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18430.51784375,"end":18432.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18432.880343750003,"end":18434.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18435.209093750003,"end":18439.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18439.69784375,"end":18442.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18442.02659375,"end":18442.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18442.600343750004,"end":18447.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18448.422218749998,"end":18450.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18450.32909375,"end":18451.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18451.10534375,"end":18454.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18451.17284375,"end":18451.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18454.497218750003,"end":18455.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18455.965343750002,"end":18457.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18458.15909375,"end":18458.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18458.969093749998,"end":18459.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18459.22221875,"end":18459.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18459.239093750002,"end":18459.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18459.255968750003,"end":18459.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18459.42471875,"end":18459.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18459.44159375,"end":18459.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18459.458468750003,"end":18459.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18459.54284375,"end":18459.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18459.660968750002,"end":18460.217843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18460.97721875,"end":18461.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18461.702843749998,"end":18474.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18473.95409375,"end":18475.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18475.11846875,"end":18475.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18475.77659375,"end":18478.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18480.21471875,"end":18481.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18482.50971875,"end":18485.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18486.00284375,"end":18488.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18489.14159375,"end":18489.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18490.474718750003,"end":18491.014718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18491.234093749998,"end":18491.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18492.364718750003,"end":18493.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18494.777843750002,"end":18498.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18497.106593750003,"end":18497.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18498.65909375,"end":18500.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18500.98784375,"end":18502.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18502.45596875,"end":18503.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18503.80596875,"end":18505.358468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18505.780343749997,"end":18506.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18506.97846875,"end":18509.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18509.864093750002,"end":18512.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18512.834093750003,"end":18515.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18514.58909375,"end":18518.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18518.858468749997,"end":18522.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18521.76096875,"end":18526.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18525.625343749998,"end":18530.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18530.367218749998,"end":18536.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18536.08784375,"end":18537.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18537.79221875,"end":18542.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18543.090968750003,"end":18544.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18544.93034375,"end":18546.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18547.25909375,"end":18549.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18549.655343749997,"end":18551.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18552.64221875,"end":18553.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18553.536593750003,"end":18554.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":18556.15221875,"end":18559.257218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":18559.780343749997,"end":18562.733468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18567.61034375,"end":18569.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18575.00159375,"end":18582.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18582.966593750003,"end":18590.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18590.965343750002,"end":18592.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18592.551593750002,"end":18597.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18596.145968750003,"end":18596.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18597.090968750003,"end":18597.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18597.15846875,"end":18597.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18597.209093750003,"end":18599.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18599.04846875,"end":18600.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18600.95534375,"end":18601.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18601.19159375,"end":18602.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18602.84534375,"end":18604.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18605.61284375,"end":18613.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18613.83096875,"end":18618.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18620.412218750003,"end":18620.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18621.694718749997,"end":18623.061593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18623.483468749997,"end":18632.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18632.59596875,"end":18657.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18640.324718750002,"end":18641.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18658.33034375,"end":18668.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18668.67471875,"end":18675.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18675.52596875,"end":18676.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18676.89284375,"end":18676.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18677.55096875,"end":18683.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18681.887843750003,"end":18693.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18694.18971875,"end":18704.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18704.01096875,"end":18713.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18712.41471875,"end":18715.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18715.215968750003,"end":18718.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18718.77659375,"end":18719.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18719.130968750003,"end":18722.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18721.257218749997,"end":18738.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":18724.615343750003,"end":18724.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18724.632218749997,"end":18724.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18738.975968749997,"end":18740.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18740.41034375,"end":18751.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18745.793468750002,"end":18747.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18750.974093750003,"end":18761.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18756.64409375,"end":18756.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18761.99346875,"end":18764.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18763.410968750002,"end":18786.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18786.546593749998,"end":18801.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18797.937218749998,"end":18799.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18799.422218749998,"end":18804.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18804.147218750004,"end":18812.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18809.04096875,"end":18809.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18809.69909375,"end":18809.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18812.567843750003,"end":18813.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18814.10346875,"end":18816.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18816.53346875,"end":18838.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18821.865968750004,"end":18822.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18823.114718750003,"end":18826.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18828.413468749997,"end":18828.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18829.20659375,"end":18829.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18833.661593750003,"end":18834.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18836.34471875,"end":18836.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18839.179718749998,"end":18844.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18844.765343749998,"end":18847.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18847.296593749998,"end":18854.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18848.528468750003,"end":18850.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18854.19846875,"end":18854.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18854.856593750003,"end":18864.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18856.054718749998,"end":18860.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18865.319093750004,"end":18866.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18867.68159375,"end":18868.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18868.390343749998,"end":18868.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18868.997843750003,"end":18871.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18871.512218750002,"end":18872.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18872.42346875,"end":18880.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18877.16534375,"end":18878.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18879.004718750002,"end":18881.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18881.670968750004,"end":18882.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18884.522843749997,"end":18886.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18886.530968749998,"end":18895.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18886.598468750002,"end":18887.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18888.842843750004,"end":18889.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18889.973468750002,"end":18890.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18896.14971875,"end":18898.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":18898.208468750003,"end":18899.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":18903.405968749998,"end":18905.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":18905.835968749998,"end":18908.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18915.65721875,"end":18919.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18925.78221875,"end":18926.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18926.777843750002,"end":18927.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18928.14471875,"end":18932.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18933.561593750004,"end":18936.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18937.10534375,"end":18939.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18939.72096875,"end":18941.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18942.285968750002,"end":18943.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18944.05784375,"end":18947.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18948.428468750004,"end":18950.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18950.942843750003,"end":18952.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18952.832843750002,"end":18954.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18954.250343749998,"end":18955.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18955.76909375,"end":18958.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18959.835968749998,"end":18962.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18960.81471875,"end":18963.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18963.66659375,"end":18964.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18963.936593750004,"end":18965.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18965.47221875,"end":18968.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18968.18909375,"end":18968.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18969.77534375,"end":18973.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18971.530343750004,"end":18973.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18973.25159375,"end":18975.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18976.069718749997,"end":18981.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18981.435968750004,"end":18982.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18982.66784375,"end":18984.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18985.09784375,"end":18986.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18986.97096875,"end":18989.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18987.139718750004,"end":18987.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18989.83971875,"end":18993.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18992.067218750002,"end":18997.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18997.787843750004,"end":18999.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18999.475343750004,"end":19010.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":18999.64409375,"end":18999.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19009.98846875,"end":19010.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19010.444093750004,"end":19010.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19010.79846875,"end":19015.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19015.523468749998,"end":19017.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19018.59471875,"end":19022.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19023.842843750004,"end":19030.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19030.82909375,"end":19032.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19033.46159375,"end":19038.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19034.98034375,"end":19035.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19038.52409375,"end":19039.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19040.34659375,"end":19042.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19040.88659375,"end":19044.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19044.00846875,"end":19047.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19047.434093750002,"end":19049.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19048.37909375,"end":19048.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19049.39159375,"end":19051.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19051.889093750004,"end":19053.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19053.762218750002,"end":19054.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19054.622843750003,"end":19062.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19057.491593749997,"end":19058.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19059.921593749998,"end":19063.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19063.34721875,"end":19065.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19066.755968750003,"end":19070.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19070.957843750002,"end":19073.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19073.522843749997,"end":19074.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19074.889718750004,"end":19075.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19076.30721875,"end":19080.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19080.52596875,"end":19082.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19081.825343750003,"end":19086.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19083.14159375,"end":19084.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19087.36034375,"end":19091.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19088.372843750003,"end":19088.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19091.427218750003,"end":19099.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19100.742218749998,"end":19102.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19102.750343749998,"end":19105.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19103.459093750003,"end":19105.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19105.53471875,"end":19105.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19105.652843750002,"end":19106.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19106.192843750003,"end":19108.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19108.89284375,"end":19111.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19111.575968750003,"end":19112.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19112.824718750002,"end":19114.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19115.507843749998,"end":19116.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19117.54971875,"end":19118.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":19118.61284375,"end":19119.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19119.65909375,"end":19120.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19120.992218749998,"end":19121.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19122.139718750004,"end":19123.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19124.215343750002,"end":19128.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19128.889718750004,"end":19132.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19132.703468749998,"end":19133.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19134.08721875,"end":19135.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19136.11221875,"end":19141.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19136.145968750003,"end":19136.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19141.664093749998,"end":19142.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19141.69784375,"end":19147.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19149.004718750002,"end":19151.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19152.514718750004,"end":19158.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19159.467218750004,"end":19161.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19162.234718749998,"end":19162.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19163.09534375,"end":19166.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19165.289093749998,"end":19167.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19168.46159375,"end":19174.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19168.47846875,"end":19169.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19172.68034375,"end":19172.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19172.950343750003,"end":19173.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19174.80659375,"end":19177.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19178.215343750002,"end":19185.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19185.201593750004,"end":19190.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19186.51784375,"end":19187.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19190.55096875,"end":19191.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19192.559093750002,"end":19196.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19197.36846875,"end":19198.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19198.364093750002,"end":19199.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19200.085343749997,"end":19202.194718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19202.65034375,"end":19206.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19205.957843750002,"end":19208.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19208.77596875,"end":19211.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19210.851593749998,"end":19214.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19213.062218749998,"end":19213.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19215.12096875,"end":19217.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19217.33159375,"end":19230.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19231.709093750003,"end":19233.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19232.046593749998,"end":19236.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19235.55659375,"end":19237.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19237.851593749998,"end":19243.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19243.757843749998,"end":19246.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19247.402843750002,"end":19247.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19248.61784375,"end":19249.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19250.64284375,"end":19251.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19251.14909375,"end":19251.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19251.46971875,"end":19251.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19251.50346875,"end":19251.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19252.397843749997,"end":19258.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19253.19096875,"end":19253.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19255.06409375,"end":19255.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19257.038468749997,"end":19263.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19261.20659375,"end":19262.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19263.670343750004,"end":19264.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19265.577218750004,"end":19266.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19267.07909375,"end":19270.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19270.757843749998,"end":19275.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19275.85409375,"end":19276.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19277.55846875,"end":19279.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19278.92534375,"end":19282.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19280.15721875,"end":19283.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19283.54909375,"end":19290.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19290.41721875,"end":19292.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19291.851593749998,"end":19292.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19293.319718749997,"end":19297.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19298.21346875,"end":19299.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19300.035968750002,"end":19305.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19303.208468750003,"end":19303.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19305.80721875,"end":19310.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19312.270343750002,"end":19313.147843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19313.637218750002,"end":19313.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19313.90721875,"end":19323.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19323.677843750003,"end":19324.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19324.69034375,"end":19325.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19325.264093750004,"end":19326.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19326.614093750002,"end":19329.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19329.97221875,"end":19332.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19333.482218750003,"end":19334.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19334.865968750004,"end":19335.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19336.654718750004,"end":19339.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19339.945343749998,"end":19340.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19341.14346875,"end":19342.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19343.03346875,"end":19343.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19343.13471875,"end":19343.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19343.15159375,"end":19343.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19344.012218750002,"end":19345.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19346.00346875,"end":19346.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19346.08784375,"end":19348.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19349.56409375,"end":19353.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19352.989718750003,"end":19355.639093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19353.833468750003,"end":19354.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19355.099093750003,"end":19361.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19361.51159375,"end":19361.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19362.64221875,"end":19363.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19363.92471875,"end":19368.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19363.992218749998,"end":19364.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19366.03409375,"end":19367.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19367.772218750004,"end":19368.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19368.531593749998,"end":19375.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19375.19721875,"end":19378.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19375.29846875,"end":19375.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19377.62721875,"end":19384.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19378.45409375,"end":19380.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19385.65971875,"end":19386.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19386.334718750004,"end":19389.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19389.186593750004,"end":19393.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19394.28284375,"end":19395.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19395.02534375,"end":19396.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19396.324718750002,"end":19403.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19403.24346875,"end":19405.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19404.94784375,"end":19405.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19405.87596875,"end":19416.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19416.507218749997,"end":19417.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19418.32971875,"end":19422.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19422.700343750003,"end":19423.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19424.23596875,"end":19426.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19427.020343750002,"end":19428.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19429.349093750003,"end":19431.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19431.914093749998,"end":19433.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19434.46221875,"end":19435.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19436.217218750004,"end":19443.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19443.929093749997,"end":19445.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19446.325343750003,"end":19447.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19447.422218749998,"end":19448.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19448.51909375,"end":19453.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19449.02534375,"end":19449.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19453.88534375,"end":19461.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19461.765968749998,"end":19466.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19467.115343750003,"end":19468.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19468.95471875,"end":19472.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19472.75159375,"end":19477.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19474.084718750004,"end":19478.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19477.763468750003,"end":19482.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19479.38346875,"end":19479.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19482.89346875,"end":19484.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19482.960968749998,"end":19483.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19484.091593750003,"end":19489.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19484.969093749998,"end":19486.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19489.052843750003,"end":19491.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19489.84596875,"end":19489.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19490.031593749998,"end":19490.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19490.14971875,"end":19490.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19490.335343749997,"end":19490.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":19492.849718750003,"end":19494.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":19494.975968749997,"end":19495.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":19495.600343750004,"end":19497.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19512.64409375,"end":19515.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19521.773468749998,"end":19523.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19523.629718750002,"end":19524.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19524.25409375,"end":19526.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19527.342218750004,"end":19528.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19529.637218750002,"end":19534.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19537.804718749998,"end":19538.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19539.00284375,"end":19541.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19543.154093750003,"end":19545.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19545.31409375,"end":19545.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19546.748468750004,"end":19549.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19549.785968750002,"end":19550.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19551.64221875,"end":19558.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19558.49346875,"end":19562.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19562.999093750004,"end":19572.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19572.685343750003,"end":19573.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19574.490968750004,"end":19575.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19576.397843749997,"end":19577.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19578.270968750003,"end":19579.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19579.60409375,"end":19580.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19581.39284375,"end":19584.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19585.257218749997,"end":19590.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19590.97784375,"end":19601.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19601.794718750003,"end":19604.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19605.45659375,"end":19610.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19612.324718750002,"end":19613.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19613.708468750003,"end":19619.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19620.795968750004,"end":19623.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19623.968468749998,"end":19624.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19625.723468750002,"end":19626.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19626.85409375,"end":19627.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19628.32221875,"end":19629.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19630.094093749998,"end":19631.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19631.849093750003,"end":19633.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19633.68846875,"end":19634.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19634.819093750004,"end":19636.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19637.350343750004,"end":19638.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19639.122218750003,"end":19640.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19640.826593750004,"end":19641.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19642.733468750004,"end":19644.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19645.450343750003,"end":19646.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19646.68221875,"end":19647.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19648.80846875,"end":19648.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19648.97721875,"end":19649.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19649.247218750003,"end":19649.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19649.63534375,"end":19649.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19650.15846875,"end":19657.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19655.794718750003,"end":19666.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19661.44784375,"end":19663.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":19663.084718750004,"end":19663.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19667.86034375,"end":19672.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19672.990343750003,"end":19673.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19674.84659375,"end":19679.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19680.989093750002,"end":19683.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19683.030968749998,"end":19683.233468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19683.30096875,"end":19684.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19684.802843750003,"end":19685.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19686.54096875,"end":19686.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19686.574718750002,"end":19687.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19689.156593749998,"end":19695.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19692.66659375,"end":19696.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19697.155343750004,"end":19697.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19698.505343750003,"end":19702.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19702.55534375,"end":19705.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19707.246593750002,"end":19712.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19711.85346875,"end":19717.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19717.793468750002,"end":19725.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19726.484093749998,"end":19727.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19728.50909375,"end":19731.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19731.411593750003,"end":19732.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19733.740343750003,"end":19735.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19737.554093749997,"end":19755.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19755.86346875,"end":19756.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19757.466593750003,"end":19762.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19763.592218750004,"end":19764.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19765.195343749998,"end":19775.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19776.11346875,"end":19776.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19778.71221875,"end":19780.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19781.108468750004,"end":19782.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19783.234718749998,"end":19784.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19785.023468749998,"end":19785.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19787.16659375,"end":19788.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19789.46159375,"end":19789.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19790.355968750002,"end":19797.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19798.489718750003,"end":19801.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19802.742218749998,"end":19809.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19810.099718750003,"end":19811.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19812.04034375,"end":19814.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19814.79096875,"end":19815.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19816.19159375,"end":19826.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19826.772218750004,"end":19830.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19831.04159375,"end":19832.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19833.707843750002,"end":19844.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19845.351593749998,"end":19845.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19845.36846875,"end":19848.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19845.739718750003,"end":19846.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19848.96284375,"end":19858.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19850.093468749998,"end":19851.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19859.39159375,"end":19860.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19860.03284375,"end":19861.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19862.226593749998,"end":19863.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19863.762218750002,"end":19864.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19865.348468750002,"end":19870.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19870.90034375,"end":19874.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19875.32159375,"end":19887.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19888.973468750002,"end":19890.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19891.97721875,"end":19899.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19898.74409375,"end":19906.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19906.692218750002,"end":19906.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19906.709093750003,"end":19909.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19909.037843750004,"end":19909.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19909.94909375,"end":19911.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19911.70409375,"end":19919.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19920.765968749998,"end":19924.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19926.18284375,"end":19933.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19934.40096875,"end":19935.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19936.18971875,"end":19940.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19941.285968750002,"end":19942.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19943.98596875,"end":19945.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19945.58909375,"end":19947.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19947.833468750003,"end":19952.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19956.84471875,"end":19959.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19959.342218750004,"end":19960.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19960.75971875,"end":19960.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19961.28284375,"end":19963.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19965.569093750004,"end":19967.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19967.796593749998,"end":19969.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19972.302218750003,"end":19973.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19974.81659375,"end":19975.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19975.64346875,"end":19976.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19976.60534375,"end":19977.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19978.950968750003,"end":19979.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19980.638468750003,"end":19982.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19984.38471875,"end":19988.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19989.04221875,"end":19990.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":19990.679093749997,"end":19999.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19999.03221875,"end":20002.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20002.74471875,"end":20006.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20008.060343750003,"end":20009.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20010.827843749998,"end":20012.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20012.937218749998,"end":20013.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20014.607843750004,"end":20015.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20016.66659375,"end":20017.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20018.640968749998,"end":20019.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20019.92346875,"end":20019.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20020.598468750002,"end":20027.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20026.538468749997,"end":20037.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20038.232843750004,"end":20042.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20043.36284375,"end":20050.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20050.568468750003,"end":20051.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20051.817218750002,"end":20053.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20053.77471875,"end":20056.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20057.57159375,"end":20060.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20060.96346875,"end":20061.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20061.70596875,"end":20076.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20076.97784375,"end":20086.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20085.786593750003,"end":20086.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20086.950968750003,"end":20086.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20087.372843750003,"end":20087.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20087.997218750003,"end":20088.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20089.195343749998,"end":20090.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20092.28346875,"end":20093.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20093.02596875,"end":20093.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20093.14409375,"end":20098.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20098.763468750003,"end":20101.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20100.41721875,"end":20102.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20101.699718750002,"end":20105.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20105.98596875,"end":20107.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20107.437218749998,"end":20108.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20108.669093750003,"end":20123.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20123.72159375,"end":20123.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20124.12659375,"end":20132.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20128.02471875,"end":20135.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20135.483468750004,"end":20137.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20137.01909375,"end":20142.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20142.60471875,"end":20147.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20143.785968750002,"end":20145.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20146.857218750003,"end":20155.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20156.29034375,"end":20160.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20160.795968750004,"end":20166.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20167.59659375,"end":20169.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20171.545343750004,"end":20179.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20180.185343750003,"end":20184.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20185.146593750003,"end":20185.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20186.36159375,"end":20188.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20189.871593750002,"end":20190.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20191.170968750004,"end":20193.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20194.25909375,"end":20198.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20198.562218749998,"end":20199.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20200.60409375,"end":20202.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20202.71346875,"end":20210.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20210.61096875,"end":20214.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20214.42471875,"end":20215.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20215.504718750002,"end":20219.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20219.757218749997,"end":20224.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20224.465343750002,"end":20230.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20230.65846875,"end":20232.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20232.818468750003,"end":20241.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20241.880343750003,"end":20247.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20246.217218750004,"end":20246.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20248.309718750003,"end":20250.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20248.343468749998,"end":20249.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20250.098468750002,"end":20250.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20250.82409375,"end":20250.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20250.89159375,"end":20250.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20250.975968749997,"end":20251.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20251.397843749997,"end":20261.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20252.747843750003,"end":20256.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20257.371593750002,"end":20257.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20261.13471875,"end":20271.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20261.35409375,"end":20261.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20267.17596875,"end":20268.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20272.289093749998,"end":20286.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20286.615968750004,"end":20288.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20288.77596875,"end":20289.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20290.294718750003,"end":20292.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20292.97784375,"end":20301.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20301.87096875,"end":20301.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20303.372843750003,"end":20303.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20303.389718750004,"end":20308.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20310.19034375,"end":20312.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":20312.654093750003,"end":20312.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20314.30784375,"end":20314.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":20314.324718750002,"end":20315.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":20315.37096875,"end":20320.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20336.22846875,"end":20338.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":20337.325343750003,"end":20337.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":20339.265968749998,"end":20339.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20345.577218750004,"end":20346.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20347.281593749998,"end":20349.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20349.475343750004,"end":20349.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20350.217843750004,"end":20354.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20355.73596875,"end":20358.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20359.060343750003,"end":20361.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20361.794093750003,"end":20367.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20368.864718750003,"end":20376.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20376.374093750004,"end":20377.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20377.724093750003,"end":20381.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20382.22971875,"end":20383.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20383.832843750002,"end":20386.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20385.452843749998,"end":20385.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20386.97159375,"end":20405.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20406.209093750003,"end":20417.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20418.004718750002,"end":20418.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20418.139718750004,"end":20419.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20418.747218750003,"end":20421.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20420.19846875,"end":20427.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20422.42596875,"end":20423.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20423.067218750002,"end":20423.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20425.834718750004,"end":20428.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20428.21409375,"end":20441.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20431.639718750004,"end":20433.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20433.512843750003,"end":20434.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20442.304718749998,"end":20458.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20459.027843750002,"end":20460.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20461.491593749997,"end":20463.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20463.702218750004,"end":20464.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20465.355968750002,"end":20466.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20468.039093749998,"end":20468.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20468.967218750004,"end":20470.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20471.076593750004,"end":20471.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20473.422218749998,"end":20475.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20475.514718750004,"end":20479.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20479.98659375,"end":20482.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20482.75409375,"end":20488.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20488.491593749997,"end":20489.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20489.419718750003,"end":20504.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20505.231593750003,"end":20510.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20511.18846875,"end":20512.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20512.89284375,"end":20518.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20518.36034375,"end":20518.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20518.529093750003,"end":20518.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20518.562843749998,"end":20518.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20518.630343750003,"end":20518.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20518.647218750004,"end":20518.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20518.88346875,"end":20519.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20519.170343750004,"end":20519.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20519.23784375,"end":20519.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20519.42346875,"end":20520.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20521.33034375,"end":20528.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20528.654093750003,"end":20532.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20531.45534375,"end":20545.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":20543.48721875,"end":20543.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20543.68971875,"end":20543.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":20543.723468750002,"end":20543.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20546.10284375,"end":20546.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20546.777843750002,"end":20547.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20548.785968750002,"end":20553.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20553.679718749998,"end":20554.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20554.67534375,"end":20555.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20555.451593750004,"end":20564.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20564.530343750004,"end":20568.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20569.373468750004,"end":20570.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20571.904718750004,"end":20573.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20575.41471875,"end":20576.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20576.629718750002,"end":20577.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20578.60409375,"end":20579.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20580.983468750004,"end":20582.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20582.265968749998,"end":20583.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20584.341593750003,"end":20584.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20585.03346875,"end":20589.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20590.129718750002,"end":20590.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20591.125343749998,"end":20592.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20593.082843750002,"end":20593.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20593.90971875,"end":20596.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20595.867218749998,"end":20596.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20596.33971875,"end":20599.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20599.562843749998,"end":20601.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20601.739718750003,"end":20609.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20609.029718750004,"end":20610.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20610.531593749998,"end":20635.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20616.89346875,"end":20616.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20617.365968750004,"end":20617.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20617.41659375,"end":20617.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20617.61909375,"end":20617.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":20632.36784375,"end":20632.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20635.304093749997,"end":20638.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20639.67471875,"end":20642.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20640.569093750004,"end":20645.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20642.18909375,"end":20642.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20647.200968750003,"end":20651.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20651.89221875,"end":20653.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20653.765343749998,"end":20655.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20655.46971875,"end":20659.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20659.80659375,"end":20662.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20662.75971875,"end":20662.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20662.810343750003,"end":20663.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20663.40096875,"end":20664.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20664.632843749998,"end":20674.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20674.859093749998,"end":20677.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20675.685968750004,"end":20681.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20683.76909375,"end":20684.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20684.967218750004,"end":20689.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20686.418468750002,"end":20686.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20689.35471875,"end":20691.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20691.34596875,"end":20693.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20693.640968749998,"end":20696.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20696.459093750003,"end":20696.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20697.539093749998,"end":20703.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20703.47909375,"end":20709.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20710.53284375,"end":20714.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20715.20721875,"end":20722.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20722.98659375,"end":20732.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20732.402843750002,"end":20738.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20738.984093749998,"end":20739.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20739.03471875,"end":20739.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20739.068468750003,"end":20744.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20739.10221875,"end":20741.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20742.30846875,"end":20767.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20767.874093750004,"end":20768.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20769.139718750004,"end":20769.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20770.489718750003,"end":20771.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20771.72159375,"end":20773.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20774.35409375,"end":20778.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20778.99471875,"end":20779.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20780.310968750004,"end":20784.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20785.12034375,"end":20790.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20790.621593750002,"end":20790.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20790.89159375,"end":20791.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20791.937843749998,"end":20792.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20792.005343750003,"end":20792.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20792.039093749998,"end":20793.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20794.671593749998,"end":20796.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20796.93284375,"end":20799.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20799.295343750004,"end":20801.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20801.67471875,"end":20811.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20811.411593750003,"end":20811.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20812.82909375,"end":20817.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20817.655343750004,"end":20817.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20817.70596875,"end":20820.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20821.114718750003,"end":20827.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20827.020968750003,"end":20827.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20827.93221875,"end":20835.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20835.272843749997,"end":20842.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20841.482843750004,"end":20844.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20844.16596875,"end":20851.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20850.983468750004,"end":20855.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20856.83909375,"end":20861.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20861.631593750004,"end":20863.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20864.12909375,"end":20870.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20870.406593749998,"end":20871.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20872.077218750004,"end":20877.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20877.91596875,"end":20878.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20879.468468749998,"end":20885.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20880.177218750003,"end":20881.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20885.678468750004,"end":20885.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20885.695343749998,"end":20888.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20889.137843750003,"end":20890.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20889.20534375,"end":20889.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20891.365343750003,"end":20894.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20895.34784375,"end":20896.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20897.33909375,"end":20898.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20898.92534375,"end":20898.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20899.364093750002,"end":20900.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20901.608468750004,"end":20905.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":20905.000343749998,"end":20905.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20905.928468750004,"end":20905.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20905.99596875,"end":20917.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20917.26846875,"end":20918.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20920.01909375,"end":20941.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20942.969093749998,"end":20950.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20950.57971875,"end":20964.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20951.406593749998,"end":20951.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20965.46346875,"end":20966.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20967.285968750002,"end":20969.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20969.24346875,"end":20985.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20978.84534375,"end":20979.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20985.983468750004,"end":20992.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20992.96971875,"end":20993.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":20994.48846875,"end":21000.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21000.98534375,"end":21005.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21006.233468750004,"end":21009.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21010.16534375,"end":21018.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21019.075343750003,"end":21021.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21022.146593750003,"end":21025.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21026.027843750002,"end":21030.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21031.17471875,"end":21031.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21032.76096875,"end":21034.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21034.904093750003,"end":21040.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21040.405343750004,"end":21045.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21045.687218749998,"end":21046.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21046.497218750003,"end":21047.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21048.35346875,"end":21049.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21050.15909375,"end":21050.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21051.795968750004,"end":21056.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21056.79096875,"end":21060.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21061.380968750003,"end":21065.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21066.51096875,"end":21076.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21076.551593750002,"end":21082.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21083.16659375,"end":21085.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21083.70659375,"end":21084.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21085.208468750003,"end":21087.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21088.785968750002,"end":21094.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21095.468468749998,"end":21096.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21096.36284375,"end":21100.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21100.90221875,"end":21103.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21104.80034375,"end":21105.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21105.86346875,"end":21106.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21107.39909375,"end":21110.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21108.68159375,"end":21113.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21114.26721875,"end":21117.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21117.52409375,"end":21124.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21125.168468750002,"end":21131.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21131.56409375,"end":21133.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21133.38659375,"end":21136.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21136.66034375,"end":21137.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21137.858468750004,"end":21140.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21140.254718750002,"end":21143.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21144.372218750003,"end":21144.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21145.30034375,"end":21146.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21147.40971875,"end":21155.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21156.13409375,"end":21156.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21157.18034375,"end":21163.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21163.93034375,"end":21166.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21166.57971875,"end":21170.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21170.528468750003,"end":21174.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21174.561593750004,"end":21179.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21180.484718749998,"end":21181.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21182.357843750004,"end":21190.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21190.93034375,"end":21199.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21200.076593750004,"end":21202.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21202.87784375,"end":21205.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21206.35409375,"end":21206.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21206.97846875,"end":21207.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21207.029093750003,"end":21211.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21211.31534375,"end":21215.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21215.365343750003,"end":21216.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21216.04034375,"end":21220.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21219.921593749998,"end":21222.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21220.731593750003,"end":21220.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21222.38534375,"end":21222.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21222.72284375,"end":21222.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21223.24596875,"end":21227.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21228.30846875,"end":21244.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21244.32284375,"end":21248.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21249.317843750003,"end":21252.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21252.287843750004,"end":21259.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21258.58221875,"end":21260.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21260.86034375,"end":21263.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21263.256593750004,"end":21263.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21264.117218749998,"end":21265.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21266.007218749997,"end":21267.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21267.779093750003,"end":21267.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21267.84659375,"end":21268.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21268.116593749997,"end":21268.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21268.200968750003,"end":21270.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21270.850343750004,"end":21271.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21271.170968750004,"end":21271.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21271.255343750003,"end":21279.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21280.131593750004,"end":21281.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21280.148468749998,"end":21281.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21281.835968749998,"end":21290.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21290.239718750003,"end":21293.429093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21293.969093749998,"end":21295.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21296.247218750003,"end":21297.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21297.88409375,"end":21300.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21299.67284375,"end":21309.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21309.662843750004,"end":21315.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21315.265343749998,"end":21315.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21316.311593750004,"end":21316.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21316.328468749998,"end":21322.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21322.79159375,"end":21325.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21325.474718750003,"end":21337.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21337.911593750003,"end":21352.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21352.289093749998,"end":21355.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21355.78221875,"end":21363.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21357.874718749998,"end":21358.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21363.848468750002,"end":21366.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21367.257218749997,"end":21370.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21371.661593750003,"end":21372.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21372.387218750002,"end":21372.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21373.872218750003,"end":21381.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21381.09471875,"end":21386.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21387.169718750003,"end":21389.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21390.39284375,"end":21392.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21394.341593750003,"end":21397.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21397.193468750003,"end":21405.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21401.46284375,"end":21402.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21405.968468749998,"end":21409.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21409.90034375,"end":21416.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21416.43096875,"end":21423.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21418.01721875,"end":21419.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21425.256593750004,"end":21428.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21428.90159375,"end":21430.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21431.027843750002,"end":21432.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21433.154093750003,"end":21437.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21437.693468750003,"end":21438.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21438.435968750004,"end":21441.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21441.794093750003,"end":21442.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21442.50284375,"end":21446.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21447.312218749998,"end":21447.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21447.97034375,"end":21448.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21449.219093749998,"end":21449.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21449.69159375,"end":21449.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21449.708468750003,"end":21449.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21449.809718750003,"end":21452.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21451.733468750004,"end":21454.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21453.77534375,"end":21455.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21455.513468750003,"end":21456.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21456.036593750003,"end":21458.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21457.79159375,"end":21475.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21462.246593750002,"end":21462.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21463.512218750002,"end":21463.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21464.085968749998,"end":21464.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21476.33721875,"end":21481.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":21481.382843749998,"end":21483.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":21485.01096875,"end":21486.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":21486.968468749998,"end":21488.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21499.55721875,"end":21502.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21511.757843749998,"end":21513.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21513.79971875,"end":21519.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21520.380968750003,"end":21524.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21524.98784375,"end":21529.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21529.91534375,"end":21531.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21531.855968750002,"end":21536.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21537.40784375,"end":21545.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21545.507843749998,"end":21550.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21551.160968750002,"end":21552.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21553.101593749998,"end":21568.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21569.47034375,"end":21574.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21574.63409375,"end":21576.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21576.507218749997,"end":21580.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21580.89471875,"end":21583.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21584.202218750004,"end":21585.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21586.56471875,"end":21587.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21587.459093750003,"end":21587.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21592.04909375,"end":21602.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21602.663468749997,"end":21603.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21604.28346875,"end":21604.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21605.85284375,"end":21605.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21605.86971875,"end":21607.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21607.65846875,"end":21608.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21608.94096875,"end":21618.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21618.812843749998,"end":21630.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21630.827843749998,"end":21632.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21632.160968750002,"end":21636.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21637.155968749998,"end":21639.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21640.834718750004,"end":21655.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21658.80659375,"end":21672.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21672.255968750003,"end":21673.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21673.57221875,"end":21675.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21675.951593750004,"end":21677.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21680.87909375,"end":21694.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21694.96971875,"end":21696.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21696.960968749998,"end":21696.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21697.92284375,"end":21698.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21698.90159375,"end":21705.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21705.63471875,"end":21707.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21707.153468750003,"end":21708.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21708.36846875,"end":21710.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21711.490343750003,"end":21715.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21715.45596875,"end":21718.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21720.61971875,"end":21721.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21721.02471875,"end":21722.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21722.594093749998,"end":21723.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21724.41659375,"end":21726.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21726.677843750003,"end":21729.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21730.559093750002,"end":21731.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21731.453468749998,"end":21739.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21738.03471875,"end":21740.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21741.460343749997,"end":21753.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21753.492218749998,"end":21763.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21763.33034375,"end":21763.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21763.482218750003,"end":21763.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21763.684718750003,"end":21763.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21763.73534375,"end":21763.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21763.785968750002,"end":21764.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21764.39346875,"end":21765.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21765.84471875,"end":21770.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21771.632843749998,"end":21772.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21772.61159375,"end":21776.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21776.50971875,"end":21779.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21783.647843749997,"end":21800.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21800.725343750004,"end":21803.475968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21803.880968750003,"end":21808.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21808.926593750002,"end":21822.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21822.966593750003,"end":21825.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21826.40909375,"end":21828.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21828.366593749997,"end":21831.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21831.842843750004,"end":21836.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21836.770343750002,"end":21837.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21837.58034375,"end":21840.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21841.664093749998,"end":21861.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21862.35284375,"end":21871.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21868.208468750003,"end":21869.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21869.76096875,"end":21870.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21870.68909375,"end":21878.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21878.029718750004,"end":21880.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21881.219093749998,"end":21894.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21895.326593750004,"end":21901.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21902.22846875,"end":21909.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21909.83909375,"end":21910.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21910.935968750004,"end":21918.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21919.23846875,"end":21924.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21925.583468750003,"end":21927.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21927.709718750004,"end":21928.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21928.637843750003,"end":21929.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21930.07221875,"end":21935.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21937.66596875,"end":21946.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21941.834093750003,"end":21941.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21945.006593750004,"end":21952.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21952.887218750002,"end":21952.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21952.97159375,"end":21954.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21953.79846875,"end":21958.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21956.32971875,"end":21961.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21962.202218750004,"end":21965.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":21966.825968750003,"end":21967.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21967.50096875,"end":21967.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21968.56409375,"end":21970.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21970.504718750002,"end":21972.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21973.373468750004,"end":21973.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21974.57159375,"end":21977.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21977.609093749998,"end":21978.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21978.90846875,"end":21979.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21980.005343750003,"end":21980.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21980.83221875,"end":21995.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21995.429093749997,"end":21998.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":21999.934718750003,"end":22000.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22000.96409375,"end":22009.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22008.03471875,"end":22008.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22009.030343750004,"end":22009.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22009.78971875,"end":22017.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22016.69159375,"end":22018.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22017.349718750003,"end":22021.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22021.73721875,"end":22024.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22025.12909375,"end":22026.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22026.850343750004,"end":22027.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22028.68971875,"end":22036.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22037.498468750004,"end":22045.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22045.497218750003,"end":22054.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22054.72784375,"end":22063.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22064.498468750004,"end":22070.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22070.03346875,"end":22071.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22071.82221875,"end":22080.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22081.069718749997,"end":22081.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22081.86284375,"end":22086.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22086.840968750003,"end":22089.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22090.40159375,"end":22097.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22097.75909375,"end":22104.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22104.50909375,"end":22105.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22106.12909375,"end":22107.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22107.850343750004,"end":22113.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22114.75221875,"end":22115.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22116.473468750002,"end":22118.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22118.937218749998,"end":22122.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22122.413468749997,"end":22134.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22134.850343750004,"end":22142.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22143.608468750004,"end":22147.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22147.03409375,"end":22148.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22148.249093750004,"end":22151.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22151.809718750003,"end":22157.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22156.551593750002,"end":22160.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22163.77409375,"end":22178.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22178.26971875,"end":22178.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22179.40034375,"end":22179.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22179.41721875,"end":22180.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22180.34534375,"end":22181.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22181.72909375,"end":22183.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22183.905968749998,"end":22184.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22184.952218750004,"end":22189.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22189.93034375,"end":22192.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22192.46159375,"end":22200.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22201.590968750003,"end":22210.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22210.50096875,"end":22221.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22221.857843750004,"end":22228.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22228.725968749997,"end":22231.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22231.881593750004,"end":22236.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22236.26909375,"end":22245.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22245.33096875,"end":22246.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22247.777843750002,"end":22250.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22250.79846875,"end":22252.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22253.65034375,"end":22254.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22255.21971875,"end":22256.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22264.129718750002,"end":22266.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22274.30534375,"end":22285.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22286.55659375,"end":22288.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22289.560343750003,"end":22291.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22292.58096875,"end":22293.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22292.631593750004,"end":22293.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22293.795968750004,"end":22293.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22293.96471875,"end":22294.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22297.677218750003,"end":22305.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22297.896593750003,"end":22297.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22297.96409375,"end":22298.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22298.419718750003,"end":22298.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22307.46471875,"end":22307.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22309.32096875,"end":22310.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22312.07159375,"end":22314.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22316.661593750003,"end":22318.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22318.50096875,"end":22319.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22320.239093750002,"end":22321.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22322.19659375,"end":22324.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22324.72784375,"end":22325.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22326.482843750004,"end":22331.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22331.646593750003,"end":22340.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22340.57346875,"end":22353.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22354.88346875,"end":22356.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22357.161593750003,"end":22357.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22358.25846875,"end":22359.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22359.77721875,"end":22361.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22362.05534375,"end":22366.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22366.324718750002,"end":22366.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22368.788468749997,"end":22369.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22369.46346875,"end":22373.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22373.14221875,"end":22373.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22373.69909375,"end":22378.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22378.93034375,"end":22382.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22382.710343749997,"end":22383.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22384.583468750003,"end":22387.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22388.093468749998,"end":22394.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22394.640968749998,"end":22397.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22397.965343750002,"end":22398.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22398.99471875,"end":22400.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22400.412218750003,"end":22400.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22401.54284375,"end":22403.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22403.85471875,"end":22404.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22404.69846875,"end":22405.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22406.099093750003,"end":22417.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22417.202843749998,"end":22418.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22419.177218750003,"end":22420.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22421.084093750003,"end":22422.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22424.155343750004,"end":22425.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22426.146593750003,"end":22426.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22427.614718750003,"end":22428.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22428.22221875,"end":22429.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22430.12909375,"end":22431.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22432.76159375,"end":22434.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22434.820343749998,"end":22435.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22436.10284375,"end":22438.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22439.342843750004,"end":22440.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22441.654718750004,"end":22446.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22446.497843750003,"end":22447.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22448.87721875,"end":22449.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22451.61096875,"end":22453.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22453.82159375,"end":22455.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22456.319093750004,"end":22457.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22457.53409375,"end":22459.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22460.318468750003,"end":22460.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22463.32221875,"end":22464.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22464.975968749997,"end":22465.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22465.482218750003,"end":22466.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":22468.06409375,"end":22486.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22486.86284375,"end":22497.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22497.29159375,"end":22500.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22501.00409375,"end":22504.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22505.72909375,"end":22509.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22510.234718749998,"end":22510.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22512.25971875,"end":22514.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22515.73596875,"end":22520.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22521.25409375,"end":22527.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22527.801593750002,"end":22529.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22529.37096875,"end":22546.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22533.606593750003,"end":22534.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22536.62721875,"end":22536.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22538.21346875,"end":22538.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22547.19096875,"end":22550.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22550.262218750002,"end":22550.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22550.97096875,"end":22556.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22557.29909375,"end":22562.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22563.390968749998,"end":22566.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22566.69846875,"end":22572.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22572.18284375,"end":22577.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22573.66784375,"end":22583.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22583.03346875,"end":22588.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22588.95659375,"end":22590.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22590.897218750004,"end":22592.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22592.989718750003,"end":22597.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22597.49534375,"end":22598.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22599.334718750004,"end":22600.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22601.224718750003,"end":22603.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22604.262218750002,"end":22605.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22605.79784375,"end":22606.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22607.16471875,"end":22610.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22612.109093749998,"end":22613.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22613.93159375,"end":22615.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22616.226593749998,"end":22618.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22618.70721875,"end":22620.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22620.715343750002,"end":22621.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22622.723468750002,"end":22624.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22624.984718749998,"end":22626.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22627.684718750003,"end":22628.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22628.967218750004,"end":22630.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22630.975343750004,"end":22633.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22633.96221875,"end":22637.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22638.19784375,"end":22639.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22640.037218750003,"end":22641.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22641.87659375,"end":22642.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22642.247843750003,"end":22653.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22654.00971875,"end":22663.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22656.52409375,"end":22656.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22663.037843750004,"end":22663.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22663.375343749998,"end":22663.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22663.51034375,"end":22663.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22664.67471875,"end":22665.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22665.60284375,"end":22666.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22667.61096875,"end":22667.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22667.81346875,"end":22675.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22675.74471875,"end":22678.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22679.372843750003,"end":22681.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22682.83221875,"end":22684.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22684.40159375,"end":22685.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22686.91596875,"end":22700.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22693.193468750003,"end":22693.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22700.83784375,"end":22703.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22703.90909375,"end":22715.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22710.01784375,"end":22711.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22715.60346875,"end":22717.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22717.39221875,"end":22721.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22721.71221875,"end":22721.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22721.965343750002,"end":22731.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22733.085968749998,"end":22737.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22737.11909375,"end":22741.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22742.58659375,"end":22746.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22746.974093750003,"end":22746.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22746.990968750004,"end":22753.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22752.44159375,"end":22753.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22754.33159375,"end":22754.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22756.609718749998,"end":22766.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22767.105968750002,"end":22767.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22767.966593750003,"end":22779.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22779.239093750002,"end":22779.272843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22780.13346875,"end":22782.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22783.154093750003,"end":22784.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22784.959718750004,"end":22787.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22788.18284375,"end":22796.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22797.109718749998,"end":22797.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22798.42596875,"end":22799.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22801.22721875,"end":22802.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22802.52659375,"end":22804.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22806.10409375,"end":22807.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22807.80846875,"end":22809.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22810.035968750002,"end":22810.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22812.02721875,"end":22813.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22815.18284375,"end":22818.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22818.52409375,"end":22819.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22819.975343750004,"end":22822.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22823.29971875,"end":22825.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22827.012218750002,"end":22827.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22827.872843750003,"end":22829.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22829.661593750003,"end":22834.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22835.19659375,"end":22836.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22837.20471875,"end":22838.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22840.07346875,"end":22842.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22843.12784375,"end":22843.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22843.98846875,"end":22845.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22846.94159375,"end":22850.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22851.396593750003,"end":22852.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22853.55659375,"end":22854.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22854.61971875,"end":22855.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22856.999093750004,"end":22858.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22859.530343750004,"end":22860.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22860.72846875,"end":22864.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22865.47034375,"end":22868.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22869.233468750004,"end":22870.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22871.49471875,"end":22871.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22872.54096875,"end":22872.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22873.18221875,"end":22875.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22876.54034375,"end":22877.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22877.41784375,"end":22879.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22880.219093749998,"end":22881.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22881.51846875,"end":22882.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22882.632218749997,"end":22883.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22883.796593749998,"end":22884.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22885.07909375,"end":22885.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22886.530343750004,"end":22890.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22890.79971875,"end":22894.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22895.406593749998,"end":22906.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22907.05034375,"end":22913.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22913.969093749998,"end":22915.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22915.97721875,"end":22916.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22916.787218750003,"end":22917.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22918.93034375,"end":22919.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22920.179093749997,"end":22920.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22921.07346875,"end":22922.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22923.82409375,"end":22925.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22925.967218750004,"end":22926.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22926.10221875,"end":22926.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22926.11909375,"end":22926.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22927.48596875,"end":22927.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22927.958468750003,"end":22927.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":22928.97096875,"end":22931.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22941.84659375,"end":22943.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22950.554093749997,"end":22951.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22952.460968749998,"end":22972.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22972.52534375,"end":22980.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22981.26659375,"end":22981.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22982.02596875,"end":22988.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":22988.77596875,"end":22989.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22989.147218750004,"end":22989.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22989.38346875,"end":22989.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22990.44659375,"end":22991.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":22992.13409375,"end":23010.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23010.71346875,"end":23011.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23011.793468750002,"end":23023.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23019.67409375,"end":23020.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23021.327843749998,"end":23021.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23021.715968750003,"end":23021.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23023.521593750003,"end":23029.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23031.233468750004,"end":23032.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23032.043468750002,"end":23034.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23034.77721875,"end":23036.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23036.515343749998,"end":23037.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23037.544718750003,"end":23044.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23045.172218749998,"end":23050.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23050.79159375,"end":23056.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23056.15784375,"end":23056.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23057.052218750003,"end":23057.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23057.085968749998,"end":23061.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23062.317218750002,"end":23062.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23063.53221875,"end":23064.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23065.45596875,"end":23067.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23067.092843750004,"end":23074.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23067.109718749998,"end":23067.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23074.973468750002,"end":23076.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23077.420343750004,"end":23078.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23078.382218749997,"end":23079.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23079.69846875,"end":23080.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23079.91784375,"end":23102.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23099.374718749998,"end":23099.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23101.29846875,"end":23125.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23124.72096875,"end":23124.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23125.34534375,"end":23126.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23127.77534375,"end":23140.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23141.49471875,"end":23181.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23182.686593750004,"end":23183.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23183.34471875,"end":23183.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23184.32346875,"end":23187.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23187.630968750003,"end":23190.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23191.17471875,"end":23213.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23214.546593749998,"end":23215.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23215.272218750004,"end":23215.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23215.86284375,"end":23222.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23222.49471875,"end":23252.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23253.342218750004,"end":23263.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23254.11846875,"end":23254.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23263.787843750004,"end":23263.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23264.36159375,"end":23264.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23264.37846875,"end":23280.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23280.61221875,"end":23280.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23281.64159375,"end":23282.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23283.480968750002,"end":23284.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23286.31596875,"end":23293.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23294.145968750003,"end":23296.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23297.35221875,"end":23297.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23298.53346875,"end":23301.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23302.14471875,"end":23306.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23307.89909375,"end":23308.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23308.54034375,"end":23308.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23309.09721875,"end":23309.991593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23310.14346875,"end":23313.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23314.24409375,"end":23319.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":23319.72846875,"end":23320.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23320.015343749998,"end":23320.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23320.319093750004,"end":23330.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23331.33846875,"end":23331.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23332.654718750004,"end":23338.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23338.746593750002,"end":23349.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23349.445343749998,"end":23350.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23350.778468750003,"end":23351.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23351.875343749998,"end":23353.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23353.47846875,"end":23353.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23354.00159375,"end":23354.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23354.96346875,"end":23355.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23356.43159375,"end":23365.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23361.257843749998,"end":23361.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23365.037843750004,"end":23375.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23376.411593750003,"end":23377.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23377.96409375,"end":23398.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23399.37846875,"end":23400.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23399.80034375,"end":23400.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23400.593468749998,"end":23411.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23409.216593750003,"end":23409.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23410.043468750002,"end":23412.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23412.287843750004,"end":23415.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23412.304718749998,"end":23412.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23415.37596875,"end":23418.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23419.00409375,"end":23428.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23429.75346875,"end":23431.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23431.035968750002,"end":23431.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23432.436593750004,"end":23432.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23432.453468749998,"end":23434.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23435.372843750003,"end":23441.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23441.22846875,"end":23444.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23445.68346875,"end":23447.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23448.51846875,"end":23450.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23450.42534375,"end":23461.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23462.271593750003,"end":23465.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23465.967218750004,"end":23468.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23468.802218750003,"end":23471.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23471.72159375,"end":23472.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23472.56534375,"end":23472.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23472.97034375,"end":23474.522843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23474.742218749998,"end":23478.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23476.294718750003,"end":23476.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23478.99471875,"end":23481.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23481.71159375,"end":23483.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23482.639718750004,"end":23483.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23483.19659375,"end":23483.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23483.584718750004,"end":23485.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23485.035968750002,"end":23487.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23488.107218750003,"end":23502.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23502.72096875,"end":23507.850968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23508.171593749998,"end":23515.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23515.967843750004,"end":23516.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23516.30534375,"end":23516.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23516.45721875,"end":23526.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23526.14346875,"end":23533.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":23533.652843750002,"end":23533.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":23533.804718749998,"end":23534.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":23534.02409375,"end":23534.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":23535.18846875,"end":23537.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":23538.107843750004,"end":23540.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23550.122843750003,"end":23551.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23558.30721875,"end":23559.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23559.404093750003,"end":23560.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23561.04096875,"end":23572.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23574.25409375,"end":23575.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23576.66721875,"end":23577.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23578.65846875,"end":23588.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23589.40784375,"end":23592.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23594.60534375,"end":23596.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23597.54159375,"end":23597.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23597.575343750003,"end":23600.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23601.203468749998,"end":23601.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23601.22034375,"end":23602.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23604.40971875,"end":23609.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23609.23596875,"end":23609.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23609.421593749998,"end":23609.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23610.788468750005,"end":23612.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23612.982218750003,"end":23613.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23613.960968749998,"end":23613.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23614.39971875,"end":23615.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23615.834093750003,"end":23616.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23616.96471875,"end":23618.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23619.78284375,"end":23620.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23621.757218750005,"end":23628.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23627.71409375,"end":23631.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23629.570343749998,"end":23634.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23632.57409375,"end":23635.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23635.797218749998,"end":23637.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23638.109093749998,"end":23641.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23641.163468750005,"end":23641.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23642.14221875,"end":23645.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23645.584718750004,"end":23646.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23647.592843750004,"end":23650.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23652.04784375,"end":23654.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23653.95471875,"end":23657.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23654.89971875,"end":23663.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23661.14346875,"end":23662.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23663.45534375,"end":23673.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23675.57159375,"end":23681.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23681.41034375,"end":23697.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23694.77534375,"end":23695.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23695.18034375,"end":23696.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23696.969093749998,"end":23697.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23698.217843750004,"end":23698.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23698.859093749998,"end":23698.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23699.51721875,"end":23700.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23703.02721875,"end":23704.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23707.34721875,"end":23713.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23713.793468750002,"end":23715.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23715.497843750003,"end":23722.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23723.412218750003,"end":23724.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23725.13346875,"end":23726.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23728.677218750003,"end":23740.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23740.35471875,"end":23744.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23745.60284375,"end":23746.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23746.311593750004,"end":23746.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23746.64909375,"end":23748.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23749.41659375,"end":23751.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23751.50909375,"end":23751.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23752.15034375,"end":23757.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23757.65159375,"end":23764.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23764.16534375,"end":23764.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23764.334093750003,"end":23764.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23765.12721875,"end":23775.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23775.960968749998,"end":23778.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23776.75409375,"end":23777.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23778.374093750004,"end":23784.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23778.390968749998,"end":23782.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23784.702218750004,"end":23789.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23790.54096875,"end":23791.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23792.34659375,"end":23793.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23793.966593750003,"end":23795.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23796.88596875,"end":23807.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23801.475968750005,"end":23801.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23801.49284375,"end":23803.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23803.11284375,"end":23803.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23804.513468750003,"end":23805.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23809.10346875,"end":23809.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23809.12034375,"end":23809.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23809.20471875,"end":23809.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23809.22159375,"end":23809.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23809.373468750004,"end":23811.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23811.989093750002,"end":23813.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23813.10284375,"end":23818.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23815.00971875,"end":23816.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23816.747843750003,"end":23819.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":23818.958468750003,"end":23818.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23820.40971875,"end":23829.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23829.03284375,"end":23829.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23829.218468749998,"end":23829.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23829.35346875,"end":23830.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23829.420968750004,"end":23830.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23830.686593750004,"end":23831.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":23831.76659375,"end":23831.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23833.015343749998,"end":23835.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23836.812218749998,"end":23838.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23838.87096875,"end":23841.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23840.170343750004,"end":23848.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23849.16471875,"end":23853.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23854.54784375,"end":23854.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23856.859718749998,"end":23857.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23857.53471875,"end":23860.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23861.078468749998,"end":23869.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23869.684718750003,"end":23870.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23871.507218750005,"end":23872.772843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23873.616593750005,"end":23876.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23878.42596875,"end":23883.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23882.560343750003,"end":23882.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23882.81346875,"end":23882.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23883.16784375,"end":23883.741593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23884.75409375,"end":23887.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23888.75346875,"end":23891.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23891.858468750004,"end":23893.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23894.490968750004,"end":23897.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23898.996593750002,"end":23905.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23904.059093750002,"end":23909.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23909.560343750003,"end":23919.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23914.015343749998,"end":23914.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23919.702218750004,"end":23923.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23924.325968750003,"end":23926.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23927.059718750003,"end":23932.982843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23932.982843750004,"end":23935.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23935.699718750002,"end":23941.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23941.36971875,"end":23942.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23943.25971875,"end":23950.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":23951.562218749998,"end":23967.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23956.99596875,"end":23957.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23957.114093750002,"end":23957.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23964.91034375,"end":23965.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23966.648468749998,"end":23974.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23975.10284375,"end":23983.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23985.58221875,"end":23988.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23989.04159375,"end":23991.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23992.585343750005,"end":23994.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23994.795968750004,"end":23995.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23995.97721875,"end":24002.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24002.72721875,"end":24003.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24004.617218749998,"end":24008.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24009.240968750004,"end":24014.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24016.90221875,"end":24018.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24019.92284375,"end":24022.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24023.365343750003,"end":24024.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24025.32284375,"end":24027.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24027.482843750004,"end":24035.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24034.570343749998,"end":24040.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24040.71284375,"end":24043.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24044.30721875,"end":24045.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24045.65721875,"end":24049.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24049.960343750005,"end":24052.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24052.52534375,"end":24053.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24054.65159375,"end":24055.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24056.997218750003,"end":24062.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24062.75159375,"end":24064.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24064.03409375,"end":24064.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24068.25284375,"end":24069.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24070.56471875,"end":24074.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24075.30659375,"end":24079.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24079.86284375,"end":24081.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24081.53346875,"end":24081.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24083.254718750002,"end":24084.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24084.72284375,"end":24086.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24085.060343750003,"end":24085.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24085.077218750004,"end":24085.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24085.094093749998,"end":24085.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24086.93346875,"end":24090.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24091.23659375,"end":24092.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24093.12659375,"end":24106.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24106.677218750003,"end":24109.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24111.57096875,"end":24119.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24119.90721875,"end":24121.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24121.83096875,"end":24122.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24122.11784375,"end":24125.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24125.18909375,"end":24128.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24127.905968749998,"end":24136.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24130.015343749998,"end":24130.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24137.74409375,"end":24143.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24144.426593750002,"end":24145.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24146.51909375,"end":24148.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24148.62846875,"end":24154.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24155.76659375,"end":24157.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24157.605968750002,"end":24159.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24159.310343750003,"end":24161.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24160.052843750003,"end":24161.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24161.824718750002,"end":24167.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24165.08159375,"end":24167.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24167.41034375,"end":24168.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24168.42284375,"end":24169.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24171.122843750003,"end":24175.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":24176.45534375,"end":24180.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":24183.12096875,"end":24184.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":24184.97721875,"end":24187.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24194.663468750005,"end":24200.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24208.39971875,"end":24211.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24212.669093750003,"end":24225.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24226.23659375,"end":24251.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24251.582843750002,"end":24256.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24257.25284375,"end":24258.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24260.577218750004,"end":24261.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24263.530343750004,"end":24266.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24267.24284375,"end":24271.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24272.45721875,"end":24276.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24276.13596875,"end":24278.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24276.152843750002,"end":24276.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24278.88659375,"end":24282.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24283.83096875,"end":24284.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24285.990968750004,"end":24290.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24291.00284375,"end":24291.694718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24291.998468750004,"end":24293.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24293.51721875,"end":24297.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24298.630343750003,"end":24299.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24299.52471875,"end":24299.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24302.41034375,"end":24303.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24302.444093750004,"end":24302.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24303.085343750005,"end":24303.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24303.203468749998,"end":24303.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24303.64221875,"end":24303.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24303.97971875,"end":24309.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24304.755968750003,"end":24305.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24308.991593750005,"end":24309.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24309.531593749998,"end":24312.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24312.63659375,"end":24315.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24318.272843750005,"end":24320.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24323.217218750004,"end":24327.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24327.942218750002,"end":24330.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24329.25846875,"end":24329.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24332.04284375,"end":24343.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24342.16784375,"end":24349.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24349.52534375,"end":24351.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24351.09471875,"end":24351.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24352.326593750004,"end":24359.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24352.427843750003,"end":24353.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24359.397218750004,"end":24360.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24360.69659375,"end":24362.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24362.94096875,"end":24364.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24364.982843750004,"end":24365.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24370.686593750004,"end":24376.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24376.10346875,"end":24389.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24389.772218750004,"end":24394.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24394.952843749998,"end":24404.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24405.33096875,"end":24406.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24406.91721875,"end":24415.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24416.41784375,"end":24418.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24418.27409375,"end":24420.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24420.653468750003,"end":24421.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24422.49284375,"end":24423.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24424.264718750004,"end":24426.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24427.28534375,"end":24428.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24429.05721875,"end":24429.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24430.32284375,"end":24431.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24432.381593750004,"end":24433.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24433.25909375,"end":24435.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24436.043468750002,"end":24437.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24437.460968749998,"end":24440.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24440.46471875,"end":24441.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24441.240968750004,"end":24444.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24444.953468749998,"end":24449.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24450.117218749998,"end":24451.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24451.92284375,"end":24456.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24456.023468749998,"end":24457.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24457.76159375,"end":24458.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24458.57159375,"end":24459.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24459.584093750003,"end":24466.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24459.600968750005,"end":24459.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24466.70534375,"end":24470.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24470.670968750004,"end":24473.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24473.75909375,"end":24473.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24475.37909375,"end":24475.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24475.395968750003,"end":24508.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24508.656593749998,"end":24519.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24515.55846875,"end":24515.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24516.68909375,"end":24517.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24519.912218750003,"end":24529.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24532.31534375,"end":24541.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24544.65096875,"end":24548.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24548.684093750002,"end":24548.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24548.717843750004,"end":24548.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24548.88659375,"end":24548.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24548.903468750003,"end":24548.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24548.920343750004,"end":24548.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24548.95409375,"end":24549.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24549.004718750002,"end":24549.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24550.89471875,"end":24555.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24555.40034375,"end":24565.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24565.390343749998,"end":24566.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24566.132843749998,"end":24566.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24566.200343750003,"end":24566.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24566.25096875,"end":24566.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24566.35221875,"end":24566.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24566.402843750002,"end":24566.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24566.47034375,"end":24566.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24566.976593749998,"end":24567.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24567.02721875,"end":24567.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24567.584093750003,"end":24567.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24568.765343749998,"end":24572.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24573.405968749998,"end":24575.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24575.802218750003,"end":24583.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24583.514093750004,"end":24584.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24585.04971875,"end":24594.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24595.05659375,"end":24602.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24602.802218750003,"end":24604.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24604.810343750003,"end":24611.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24612.404093750003,"end":24618.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24618.023468749998,"end":24618.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24618.512843750003,"end":24618.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24618.614093750002,"end":24624.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24624.68909375,"end":24628.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24628.890968749998,"end":24634.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24634.560968750004,"end":24636.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24636.990968750004,"end":24639.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24639.55596875,"end":24647.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24647.976593749998,"end":24662.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24662.03346875,"end":24672.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24671.43284375,"end":24680.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24676.630343750003,"end":24677.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24679.077218750004,"end":24680.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24680.47784375,"end":24680.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24680.629718750002,"end":24680.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24680.68034375,"end":24680.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24680.967218750004,"end":24691.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24692.037218750003,"end":24696.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24695.513468750003,"end":24702.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24702.263468750003,"end":24702.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24702.297218749998,"end":24702.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24702.97221875,"end":24703.022843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24703.022843750005,"end":24703.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24703.81596875,"end":24714.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24713.333468750003,"end":24719.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24720.015968749998,"end":24724.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24720.285968750002,"end":24720.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24724.35284375,"end":24743.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24742.037843750004,"end":24742.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24743.25284375,"end":24750.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24745.514093750004,"end":24747.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24750.82971875,"end":24752.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24752.770343750002,"end":24753.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24753.934718750003,"end":24754.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24754.137218750002,"end":24754.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24754.23846875,"end":24757.866593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24759.014093750004,"end":24762.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24761.59596875,"end":24761.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24762.00096875,"end":24771.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24771.19784375,"end":24781.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24774.79221875,"end":24775.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24782.38596875,"end":24788.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24789.55784375,"end":24795.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24795.599093750003,"end":24796.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24796.442843750003,"end":24797.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24797.742218749998,"end":24809.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24809.723468750002,"end":24813.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24813.334718750004,"end":24817.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24817.18221875,"end":24817.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24818.00909375,"end":24822.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24822.75096875,"end":24824.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24824.03346875,"end":24824.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24824.219093749998,"end":24824.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24824.35409375,"end":24824.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24824.624093750004,"end":24838.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24838.967843750004,"end":24839.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24839.23784375,"end":24839.288468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24839.288468750005,"end":24839.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24839.52471875,"end":24839.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24839.96346875,"end":24840.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24840.199718750002,"end":24851.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24840.233468750004,"end":24840.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24851.742218749998,"end":24854.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24852.366593750005,"end":24852.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24852.82221875,"end":24853.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24853.78409375,"end":24860.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24860.027843750002,"end":24873.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24873.966593750003,"end":24876.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24876.44721875,"end":24879.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24879.653468750003,"end":24880.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24880.851593749998,"end":24884.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24885.42471875,"end":24886.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24886.03221875,"end":24887.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24887.804093750005,"end":24894.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24894.942218750002,"end":24905.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24906.231593750003,"end":24916.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24917.234093749998,"end":24949.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24950.08971875,"end":24950.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24950.967218750004,"end":24957.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24952.840343750002,"end":24952.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24952.874093750004,"end":24953.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24953.160968750002,"end":24953.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24957.936593750004,"end":24960.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24960.029093750003,"end":24993.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":24993.239093750002,"end":25002.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25002.89159375,"end":25004.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25004.882843749998,"end":25011.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25012.20659375,"end":25020.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25020.036593750003,"end":25035.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25035.426593750002,"end":25035.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25036.084718750004,"end":25036.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25036.101593749998,"end":25036.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25036.15221875,"end":25036.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25036.96221875,"end":25039.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25039.84784375,"end":25040.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25041.09659375,"end":25046.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25046.935343750003,"end":25048.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25049.82096875,"end":25064.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25064.83971875,"end":25064.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25064.856593750003,"end":25064.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25064.974718750003,"end":25076.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25076.19659375,"end":25076.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":25077.81659375,"end":25077.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25077.833468750003,"end":25081.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25081.967843750004,"end":25082.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25082.085968749998,"end":25082.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25094.286593750003,"end":25096.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":25096.750343749998,"end":25097.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25103.061593750004,"end":25103.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25103.39909375,"end":25103.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25103.41596875,"end":25103.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25103.73659375,"end":25104.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25104.107843750004,"end":25104.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25104.293468750002,"end":25116.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25116.578468749998,"end":25127.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25129.943468750003,"end":25136.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25136.828468749998,"end":25140.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25140.794093750003,"end":25141.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25141.890968749998,"end":25142.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25142.920343750004,"end":25144.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25144.590968750003,"end":25148.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25148.89409375,"end":25174.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25175.65784375,"end":25177.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25178.172218749998,"end":25181.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25180.045343750004,"end":25180.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25181.36159375,"end":25186.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25186.62659375,"end":25191.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25192.043468750002,"end":25201.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25201.881593750004,"end":25203.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25204.328468749998,"end":25209.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25208.952218750004,"end":25238.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25239.79971875,"end":25248.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25249.654718750004,"end":25250.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25250.684093750002,"end":25264.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25265.29784375,"end":25281.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25281.396593750003,"end":25289.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25289.78346875,"end":25300.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25301.444093750004,"end":25306.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25306.87784375,"end":25316.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25316.69909375,"end":25329.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25330.40159375,"end":25332.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25332.89909375,"end":25334.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25334.83971875,"end":25338.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25339.12596875,"end":25340.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25340.84721875,"end":25346.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25347.614093750002,"end":25349.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25349.99346875,"end":25361.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25361.552843750003,"end":25362.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25363.341593750003,"end":25364.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25364.640968749998,"end":25368.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25368.99471875,"end":25372.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25372.55534375,"end":25381.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25382.005343750003,"end":25385.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25386.27471875,"end":25392.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25393.210343750005,"end":25393.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25394.10471875,"end":25400.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25400.65221875,"end":25402.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25402.390343749998,"end":25409.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25410.473468750002,"end":25415.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25415.08034375,"end":25417.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25417.645343750002,"end":25422.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25422.75846875,"end":25426.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25426.69034375,"end":25427.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25428.07409375,"end":25435.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25435.887218750002,"end":25437.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25438.469093749998,"end":25476.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25476.75846875,"end":25486.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25487.609093749998,"end":25519.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25519.92471875,"end":25528.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25528.54784375,"end":25534.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25535.11221875,"end":25556.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25556.459093750003,"end":25561.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25562.55096875,"end":25590.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25590.98534375,"end":25609.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25610.594093749998,"end":25625.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25625.93346875,"end":25627.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25625.967218750004,"end":25626.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25627.114718750003,"end":25656.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25646.132843749998,"end":25646.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":25646.200343750003,"end":25646.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25646.25096875,"end":25646.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25646.301593750002,"end":25646.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25656.17346875,"end":25659.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25659.312218749998,"end":25669.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25669.55534375,"end":25671.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":25671.07409375,"end":25671.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25671.512843750003,"end":25686.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25687.223468750002,"end":25688.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25689.164093749998,"end":25689.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25690.02471875,"end":25697.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25697.685968750004,"end":25701.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25701.921593749998,"end":25705.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25705.937843749998,"end":25707.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25707.45659375,"end":25708.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25708.131593750004,"end":25716.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25717.14284375,"end":25718.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25718.762843750003,"end":25722.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25723.605968750002,"end":25725.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25725.69846875,"end":25728.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25728.22971875,"end":25733.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25728.584093750003,"end":25729.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25733.646593750003,"end":25736.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25736.44784375,"end":25741.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25741.746593750002,"end":25761.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25761.608468750004,"end":25762.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25763.54909375,"end":25780.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25780.66034375,"end":25781.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25781.50409375,"end":25783.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25783.343468749998,"end":25784.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25785.18284375,"end":25810.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25809.921593749998,"end":25826.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":25826.91471875,"end":25827.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25829.14221875,"end":25831.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":25831.622843750003,"end":25834.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25840.077218750004,"end":25842.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25847.48534375,"end":25853.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25854.319718750005,"end":25854.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25856.395343750002,"end":25857.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25857.30659375,"end":25859.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25858.38659375,"end":25863.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25863.786593750003,"end":25864.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25863.83721875,"end":25899.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25894.31346875,"end":25894.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25899.325343750003,"end":25911.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25904.843468749998,"end":25905.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25909.61909375,"end":26061.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":25936.484093749998,"end":25937.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26062.05096875,"end":26135.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26135.693468750003,"end":26153.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26152.75409375,"end":26163.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26155.13346875,"end":26156.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26160.93846875,"end":26161.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26162.592218750004,"end":26173.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26163.79034375,"end":26164.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26168.85284375,"end":26169.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26172.700343750003,"end":26177.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26175.687218749998,"end":26175.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26176.395968750003,"end":26193.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26190.79034375,"end":26191.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26192.545343750004,"end":26208.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26208.154718750004,"end":26211.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26211.46221875,"end":26214.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26214.077843749998,"end":26233.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":26233.450343750003,"end":26233.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26235.32346875,"end":26237.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26240.301593750002,"end":26248.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26250.662843750004,"end":26253.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26254.999718749998,"end":26256.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26256.855968750002,"end":26260.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26260.146593750003,"end":26261.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26262.779093750003,"end":26265.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26266.575968750003,"end":26269.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26270.895968750003,"end":26273.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26274.96284375,"end":26277.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26278.844093749998,"end":26282.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26283.754718750002,"end":26287.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26287.349093750003,"end":26290.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26292.327218750004,"end":26295.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":26296.03971875,"end":26297.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26308.71284375,"end":26310.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26316.42471875,"end":26318.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26318.97284375,"end":26320.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26320.694093750004,"end":26324.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26325.08159375,"end":26328.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26328.22034375,"end":26330.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26330.56596875,"end":26331.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26331.224093750003,"end":26333.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26333.029718750004,"end":26337.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26338.05846875,"end":26340.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26340.67409375,"end":26341.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26342.46284375,"end":26345.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26346.225968750005,"end":26348.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26349.61784375,"end":26354.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26354.663468750005,"end":26355.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26356.553468750004,"end":26357.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26357.86971875,"end":26358.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26359.21971875,"end":26368.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26369.547218749998,"end":26372.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26374.66034375,"end":26377.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26379.18284375,"end":26384.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26384.98784375,"end":26391.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26392.12596875,"end":26393.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26394.47159375,"end":26397.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26397.458468750003,"end":26397.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26398.622843750003,"end":26403.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26404.748468750004,"end":26407.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26407.937843749998,"end":26409.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26409.87846875,"end":26412.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26412.61221875,"end":26416.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26417.522843750005,"end":26417.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26417.590343750002,"end":26417.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26417.708468750003,"end":26418.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26418.147218750004,"end":26419.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26419.22721875,"end":26419.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26419.277843750002,"end":26419.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26420.172218749998,"end":26441.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26429.841593750003,"end":26430.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26435.967218750004,"end":26436.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26440.32096875,"end":26444.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26445.332843750002,"end":26447.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26447.374718749998,"end":26452.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26452.99409375,"end":26456.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26456.217218750004,"end":26470.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26470.965968750003,"end":26472.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26472.73784375,"end":26474.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26474.442218750002,"end":26477.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26477.90159375,"end":26480.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26481.69846875,"end":26483.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26485.765343749998,"end":26487.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26487.92534375,"end":26490.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26490.794093750003,"end":26495.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26496.480968750002,"end":26497.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26497.442843750003,"end":26503.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26503.669718750003,"end":26507.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26507.93909375,"end":26520.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26520.62909375,"end":26528.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26528.61096875,"end":26530.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26530.973468750002,"end":26536.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26536.93034375,"end":26539.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26539.866593750005,"end":26545.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26545.58721875,"end":26563.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26561.82096875,"end":26564.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26563.474718750003,"end":26563.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26564.740343750003,"end":26564.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26564.757218750005,"end":26564.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26564.77409375,"end":26569.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26570.19096875,"end":26575.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26576.09721875,"end":26577.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26577.66659375,"end":26578.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26578.982843750004,"end":26581.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26582.020343750002,"end":26583.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26582.93159375,"end":26583.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26583.55596875,"end":26586.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26586.914093749998,"end":26592.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26593.107218750003,"end":26599.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26600.04284375,"end":26600.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26601.79784375,"end":26604.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26604.58221875,"end":26614.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26618.132843749998,"end":26624.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":26618.26784375,"end":26618.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26618.976593749998,"end":26620.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26625.794093750003,"end":26626.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26627.43096875,"end":26629.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26629.25346875,"end":26632.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26632.91534375,"end":26634.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26635.36221875,"end":26639.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26640.22221875,"end":26641.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26641.656593749998,"end":26669.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26670.833468750003,"end":26675.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26677.22909375,"end":26684.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26681.295968750004,"end":26682.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26682.224093750003,"end":26682.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26683.270343750002,"end":26683.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26683.371593750002,"end":26683.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26683.506593750004,"end":26683.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26684.029718750004,"end":26685.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26686.122218750003,"end":26687.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":26687.286593750003,"end":26687.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26687.640968749998,"end":26690.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26691.35346875,"end":26698.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26699.318468750003,"end":26702.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26702.288468750005,"end":26704.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26705.17409375,"end":26706.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26706.74346875,"end":26721.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":26709.59534375,"end":26709.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":26709.81471875,"end":26709.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26722.403468750003,"end":26722.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26724.209093750003,"end":26727.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26727.820343749998,"end":26729.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26730.30096875,"end":26734.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26735.802218750003,"end":26739.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26742.974093750003,"end":26746.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26747.226593749998,"end":26758.397843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26759.29221875,"end":26766.413468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26766.413468750005,"end":26767.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26768.79284375,"end":26775.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26774.310968750004,"end":26775.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26775.779093750003,"end":26775.795968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26775.795968750004,"end":26775.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26775.94784375,"end":26776.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26776.06596875,"end":26776.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26776.79159375,"end":26776.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26776.97721875,"end":26777.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26777.027843750002,"end":26777.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26777.83784375,"end":26777.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26777.905343750004,"end":26777.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26777.97284375,"end":26778.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26778.023468749998,"end":26781.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":26781.786593750003,"end":26786.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26785.465343750002,"end":26785.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26785.499093750004,"end":26785.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26785.53284375,"end":26785.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26785.63409375,"end":26786.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26786.241593750005,"end":26786.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26786.444093750004,"end":26793.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26793.02534375,"end":26793.413468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26793.413468750005,"end":26793.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26793.700343750003,"end":26793.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26793.717218750004,"end":26793.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26793.75096875,"end":26795.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26795.86034375,"end":26807.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26808.53346875,"end":26809.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26809.91721875,"end":26809.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26810.929718749998,"end":26819.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26819.856593750003,"end":26821.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26821.61159375,"end":26823.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26824.412843750004,"end":26828.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26828.46284375,"end":26830.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26830.639718750004,"end":26834.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26834.79096875,"end":26837.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26838.30096875,"end":26839.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26839.904093750003,"end":26846.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26846.755343750003,"end":26849.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26849.55659375,"end":26851.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26851.632218750005,"end":26862.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26863.090343750002,"end":26864.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26864.288468750005,"end":26867.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26867.49471875,"end":26879.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26879.762843750003,"end":26880.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26881.146593750003,"end":26882.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26882.88471875,"end":26886.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":26887.32284375,"end":26892.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26892.48659375,"end":26892.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26893.583468750003,"end":26914.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26914.390343749998,"end":26916.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26916.263468750003,"end":26917.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26918.153468750003,"end":26919.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26920.66784375,"end":26923.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26925.05534375,"end":26928.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26928.835343750005,"end":26932.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26933.172218749998,"end":26934.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26935.467218750004,"end":26937.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26937.762218750002,"end":26938.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26939.247218750003,"end":26941.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26941.94721875,"end":26943.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26944.03971875,"end":26948.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26948.865968750004,"end":26951.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26951.78534375,"end":26954.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26954.48534375,"end":26956.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26958.045968750004,"end":26967.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26967.614093750002,"end":26975.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26975.91659375,"end":26979.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26979.645968750003,"end":26985.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26986.294718750003,"end":26989.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26990.496593750002,"end":26991.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26992.16721875,"end":26993.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26993.95596875,"end":26997.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26998.140968749998,"end":27003.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27004.08096875,"end":27010.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27011.725343750004,"end":27012.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27014.594093749998,"end":27014.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27014.61096875,"end":27014.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27014.93159375,"end":27015.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27015.03284375,"end":27015.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27015.04971875,"end":27015.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27015.13409375,"end":27015.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27016.990343750003,"end":27019.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27020.382218750005,"end":27027.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27027.975968750005,"end":27028.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27028.97159375,"end":27029.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27029.123468750004,"end":27029.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27029.19096875,"end":27030.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27030.84471875,"end":27032.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27032.24534375,"end":27034.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27034.422218749998,"end":27039.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27040.02471875,"end":27046.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27040.24409375,"end":27041.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27041.52659375,"end":27042.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27042.33659375,"end":27042.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27042.387218750002,"end":27042.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27042.960968749998,"end":27042.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27042.97784375,"end":27043.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27043.11284375,"end":27043.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27047.804093750005,"end":27058.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27054.756593750004,"end":27054.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27058.030343750004,"end":27058.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27058.70534375,"end":27059.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27060.139718750004,"end":27060.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27060.156593749998,"end":27062.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27060.561593750004,"end":27062.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27062.974718750003,"end":27063.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27064.52721875,"end":27071.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27071.496593750002,"end":27072.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27073.13346875,"end":27073.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27073.842218750004,"end":27076.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27079.71471875,"end":27082.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27082.85346875,"end":27084.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27084.895343750002,"end":27086.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27087.443468750003,"end":27088.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27090.66659375,"end":27090.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27090.68346875,"end":27094.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27095.037218750003,"end":27098.007218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27098.007218750005,"end":27101.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27101.71971875,"end":27102.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27103.289093749998,"end":27106.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27106.78221875,"end":27108.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27109.499093750004,"end":27110.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27111.25409375,"end":27116.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27117.97034375,"end":27121.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27121.952843749998,"end":27124.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27125.429093750005,"end":27126.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27127.03221875,"end":27128.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27128.93909375,"end":27134.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27135.199718750002,"end":27138.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27139.249718749998,"end":27145.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27145.30784375,"end":27147.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27147.855968750002,"end":27148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27149.32409375,"end":27157.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27158.099093750003,"end":27159.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27163.094093749998,"end":27163.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27163.65096875,"end":27167.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27163.66784375,"end":27164.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27168.39284375,"end":27173.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":27174.09659375,"end":27180.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27180.93096875,"end":27190.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27190.12784375,"end":27198.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27199.476593749998,"end":27205.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27206.108468750004,"end":27211.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27213.11159375,"end":27226.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27226.10534375,"end":27236.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27236.71971875,"end":27237.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":27237.209093750003,"end":27237.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27237.88409375,"end":27238.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27238.82909375,"end":27241.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27241.512218750002,"end":27241.866593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27242.72721875,"end":27243.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27246.11909375,"end":27255.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27255.974093750003,"end":27262.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27263.466593750003,"end":27267.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27267.719093749998,"end":27270.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27271.21221875,"end":27272.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27273.068468750003,"end":27274.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":27274.874093750004,"end":27275.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":27289.302218750003,"end":27289.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":27289.57221875,"end":27290.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27292.96409375,"end":27293.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27294.263468750003,"end":27297.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27297.233468750004,"end":27300.726593749998}],"whisperx":[{"start":514.165,"end":514.817,"text":"本集完"},{"start":1797.717,"end":1800.602,"text":"出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員先讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1805.854,"end":1832.879,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月27日星期三9時2分至16時8分11月28日星期四9時3分至11時54分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員王委員鄭旭等15人列席委員楊委員瓊英等16人列席官員環境部部長彭啟明等相關人員主席黃兆吉委員秀芳"},{"start":1833.619,"end":1847.755,"text":"報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項一繼續審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於環境部主管公務及基金預算決議審查完均內容如審查結果"},{"start":1848.476,"end":1865.983,"text":"公務預算稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第一九零項環境部九百萬二千元照列第一九一項氣候邊間署二十三萬三千元照列第一九二項資源循環署三十六萬五千元照列第一九三項化學物質管理署二十九萬六千元照列"},{"start":1866.383,"end":1894.151,"text":"第一九四項環境管理署七百萬元照列第一九五項國家環境研究院六百萬元照列第三款規費收入第一五七項環境部四千二百九十萬八千元照列第一五八項資源循環署十九萬元照列第一五九項化學物質管理署三千八百六十萬六千元照列第一六零項國家環境研究院一千九百六十五萬一千元照列第四款財產收入第二零二項環境部八十萬七千元照列"},{"start":1894.591,"end":1909.458,"text":"第203項 化學物質管理署6千元照列第204項 環境管理署92萬元照列第205項 國家環境研究院122萬3千元照列第7款 其他收入第201項 環境部862萬8千元照列第202項 化學物質管理署18萬2千元照列第203項 環境管理署198萬5千元照列"},{"start":1916.861,"end":1934.666,"text":"第204項國家環境研究院352萬元照列稅出部分第18款環境部主管第一項環境部原列15億7307萬6千元簡列第一幕科技發展向下淨零排放科技10萬元第二幕一般行政40萬元含基本行政工作維持中業務費之委辦費20萬元"},{"start":1936.747,"end":1945.175,"text":"第5目水質保護向下水污染防治10萬元以上共計減列60萬元科目均自行調整其餘均照列改列為15億7247萬6千元本項通過決議79項第二項氣候變遷屬原列5億7964萬元減列第二目一般行政20萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為5億7944萬元"},{"start":1961.189,"end":1968.055,"text":"本項提案一案保留送院會處理本項通過決議25項第三項資源循環署10億9910萬1千元照列本項提案二案保留送院會處理本項通過決議34項第4項化學物質管理署原列13億7799萬9千元"},{"start":1979.544,"end":1986.53,"text":"簡列第二幕一般行政20萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為13億7779萬9千元本項提案二案保留送院會處理本項通過決議27項第5項環境管理署原列25億1489萬4千元"},{"start":1995.937,"end":2023.804,"text":"簡列第一幕一般行政二十萬元第二幕環境管理一百一十萬元含推動環境管理工作五十萬元多元化垃圾處理計畫第二期計畫五十萬元以上共計簡列一百三十萬元科目均自行調整其餘均照列改列為二十五億一千三百五十九萬四千元本項提案二案保留送院會處理本項通過決議四十七項第六項國家環境研究院原列五億七千三百零八萬六千元"},{"start":2024.464,"end":2052.746,"text":"簡列第二幕一般行政二十萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為五億七千二百八十八萬六千元本項通過決議十三項基金預算非營業部分特別收入基金環境保護基金一業務計劃應依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整二基金來源用途及餘處基金來源九十二億六千一百九十八萬五千元照列基金用途原列八十三億九千四百三十七萬二千元"},{"start":2053.506,"end":2076.303,"text":"簡列資源回收管理基金向下資源回收管理計劃50萬元土壤及地下水污染整治基金150萬元含土壤及地下水污染整治計劃向下土壤及地下水污染整治策略規劃100萬元環境教育基金向下環境教育推動計劃10萬元以上共計簡列210萬元科目均自行調整其餘均照列改列為83億9227萬2千元本期剩餘"},{"start":2079.685,"end":2106.796,"text":"原列八億六千七百六十一萬三千元增列二百一十萬元改列為八億六千九百七十一萬三千元三結繳公庫零元照列四通過決議三十二項信託基金部分資源回收管理基金一基金運用計劃因依據收支餘出撥補等項之審查結果隨同調整二總收入七十八億七千八百三十五萬九千元照列三總支出六十六億二千四百四十八萬九千元照列"},{"start":2107.636,"end":2129.917,"text":"本期剩餘十二億五千三百八十七萬元照列清潔人員執行職務死亡技術基金一基金運用計劃因依據收支於處撥補等項之審查結果隨同調整二總收入二百四十五萬二千元照列三總支出五百五十三萬五千元照列四本期短處三百零八萬三千元照列五通過決議一項"},{"start":2133.089,"end":2144.395,"text":"繼續審查環境部含重環境資源研究發展基金會等四家財團法人一百一十四年度預算書案預算處理決議全案審查完略內容如審查結果你具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由黃兆吉委員秀芳補充說明審查結果一環境資源研究發展基金會"},{"start":2155.64,"end":2169.787,"text":"一、工作計劃部分因依據收入支出不動產廠房及設備及投資性不動產投資及基金運用等向之審查結果隨同調整二、收入支出及輿出部分收入總額7600萬元照列支出總額6850萬元照列本期稅前剩餘750萬元照列三、不動產廠房及設備及投資性不動產投資五列數"},{"start":2179.312,"end":2200.581,"text":"資金運用部分因依據收入支出不動產廠房及設備及投資性不動產投資等事項之審查結果隨同調整通過決議二項環境與發展基金會工作計畫部分同環境資源研究發展基金會收入支出及輿促部分收入總額一億一千四百三十七萬四千元照列"},{"start":2201.041,"end":2230.122,"text":"支出總額一億零四百六十六萬三千元照列本期稅前剩餘九百七十一萬一千元照列三不動產廠房及設備及投資性不動產投資七千八百零九萬七千元照列四資金運用部分同環境資源研究發展基金會五通過決議二項三環境權保障基金會一工作計劃部分同環境資源研究發展基金會二收入支出及輿促部分收入總額二千三百四十萬元照列支出總額"},{"start":2230.802,"end":2256.116,"text":"二千二百四十一萬六千元照列本期稅前剩餘九十八萬四千元照列三不動產廠房及設備及投資性不動產投資無列數四資金運用部分同環境資源研究發展基金會五通過決議一項四大科砍環境永續發展基金會一工作計劃部分同環境資源研究發展基金會二收入支出及餘出部分收入總額十六萬元照列"},{"start":2256.476,"end":2257.297,"text":"請問委員上次議事錄有錯誤或遺漏之處沒有那議事錄確定"},{"start":2283.757,"end":2285.08,"text":"本日會議的議程為邀請勞動部部長針對勞動部勞動力發展署"},{"start":2294.38,"end":2320.629,"text":"北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程．進行專案報告．並備質詢。現在我們介紹在場的委員王一鳴委員王振旭委員林業勤委員"},{"start":2326.982,"end":2349.4,"text":"我們介紹我們行政官員第一個是我們勞動部部長 洪松漢辛苦啦 轉換角色勞動力發展署 代理署長 陳世昌職業安全衛生署 署長 周芷蓮中和規劃司司長 王厚誠"},{"start":2353.968,"end":2362.895,"text":"勞動關係司司長王厚偉勞動保險司司長陳美女勞動條件就業平等司司長黃維琛勞動法務司司長傅惠芝秘書處處長丁玉珍"},{"start":2384.625,"end":2391.55,"text":"人事處處長江碧玲政風處處長周志信會計處處長林美信"},{"start":2402.652,"end":2421.629,"text":"我先報告一下本來就是排定今天12月4號請洪部長來做施政等等的理念因為大家都很期待我們從立法院委員轉換成勞動部部長大家都要期待本來就擺今天這個上星期就11月28號"},{"start":2426.754,"end":2441.315,"text":"紅部長他有親自打電話給我星期四晚上我們就討論一下他很感謝我排12月4號今天我本來就排今天所以我就鼓勵他也請他趕快好好準備"},{"start":2443.124,"end":2461.892,"text":"所以那個禮拜五上個禮拜五吳斯堯委員講的是我不會說的他說我良心花現才改成禮拜三這我要在這裡再次的鄭重講對就對不對就不對不要這樣胡說八道也沒有參與也沒有"},{"start":2464.164,"end":2471.609,"text":"知悉我們的對話所以我是這邊再次的鄭重聲明我們接下來請我們的勞動部紅部長報告7分鐘"},{"start":2484.74,"end":2503.083,"text":"主席然後現場各位委員那也包括我們部內的同仁也很多媒體朋友我確實還是要在這邊先跟趙偉再一次表達感謝那也包括今天趙偉排的這個題目讓我們有機會能夠到委員會裡面來跟大家做一個至少在這個階段的一些相關的報告"},{"start":2506.519,"end":2529.735,"text":"今天貴委員會召開第11屆第2會期第12次全體會議我應邀進行勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程專題報告本部身為勞工主管機關肩負推動及監督企業建構安全健康友善職場的使命"},{"start":2530.635,"end":2557.307,"text":"對於該分署近期發生的職場霸凌事件本部克正檢討相關機制及策進作為除優化內部職場友善環境外亦檢討現行相關法制以建立兼顧勞資雙方權益之務實可行制度以下警究該分署事件後本部強化內部職場霸凌防制精進作為與研議完善職場霸凌預防及處理法制等策進作為進行報告"},{"start":2559.188,"end":2585.069,"text":"並藉此機會聆聽各位委員對於本部行政團隊的期許與指教。一、本部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件處理情形及強化防治作為。一、本部113年11月18日調查報告對相關人員作出以下處置。一、北分署謝宜榮分署長的部分。一、公務人員考機法"},{"start":2586.294,"end":2607.346,"text":"一次進兩大過並免除職務。 公務人員懲戒法第5條第3項及第24條規定移送檢察院進行審查並停止其職務。涉及不法部分臺北市臺灣新北地方檢察署已立案偵查本部亦提供相關資料並全力配合"},{"start":2609.306,"end":2635.331,"text":"2.勞動部發案署蔡木良署長部分1.公務人員考記法即一大過並調任非主管職務考量本次北分署事件於本部113年11月19日公布之調查報告因未盡完善引發社會高度爭議因此本部重組調查委員會重啟調查目前已進入實質調查的程序和階段待調查報告完成後會儘速向各界說明調查結果3."},{"start":2640.041,"end":2656.292,"text":"啟動職場重建及員工支持方案並提供專屬申訴管道因此事件讓北分署同仁承受很多的壓力造成同仁的心理充滿不安及焦慮故本部針對北分署啟動職場重建及員工支持方案的"},{"start":2656.912,"end":2679.946,"text":"法律諮詢與心理諮商並進．個別與團體諮商皆在規劃內．在心理諮商部分．除了既有人事單位EAP與本部在事發後徵聘的北分署專案外．將擴大連結北北基宜區域資源網絡．讓同仁可依競變性與信任性等需要自選諮商支持支援．費用由勞動部來支援"},{"start":2683.408,"end":2701.294,"text":"只此非常時期,亦於11月26日,我自己親自致北分署向同仁們宣布個人專屬的申訴專線及email,在絕對保密的前提下,讓同仁可以安心地進行建議及申訴,其能讓同仁早日安心工作,讓職場正常運作。"},{"start":2704.519,"end":2722.149,"text":"本部就機關內部強化職場霸凌防制之策進作為現行本部員工職場霸凌申訴處理規定本部於104年即已訂定勞動部員工安全及衛生防護要點據落實職業安全衛生法公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法"},{"start":2724.042,"end":2739.049,"text":"有關執行植物質安全及衛生防護措施並於113年3月修正增列機關首長涉及職場霸凌事件應由上級機關受理申訴規定本部與知西北分署同仁反映"},{"start":2740.39,"end":2761.224,"text":"分署長設有職場霸凌情形後,於11月8日成立事件專案調查小組,由政務次長擔任召集人,同時聘請據法律及心理諮商專家學的參與,訪談分署同仁意見,以匿名問卷的方式了解事件發生之原因及相關經過。"},{"start":2763.372,"end":2783.901,"text":"並即時啟動心理諮商關懷員工之機制如前所述由於曾前次調查報告爭議人多本案已重組調查委員會克正重啟調查二本部職場霸凌防制申訴及處理規定未來修正重點為現行安全及衛生防護小組任務"},{"start":2785.074,"end":2799.36,"text":"主要側重辦公室場所安全及衛生防護訓練及宣導故成員多為內部同仁處理程序要求不多對於具高度專業之職場霸凌申訴事件的調查與決定擁有精進和強化的必要"},{"start":2800.16,"end":2823.648,"text":"因此本部將參考重整其他行政機關及最高行政法院之做法就職場霸凌事件之防制申訴及處理另為特別規定其建構友善職場環境並確保本部同仁身心健康擬議未來修正重點如下一、完善申訴制度、申訴管道多元化、明定申訴電話"},{"start":2825.169,"end":2839.262,"text":"傳真電子信箱專用信箱等申訴管道．並於工作場所公開揭示．如當事人僅口頭提告．協助當事人提起申訴．當事人無意願申訴．仍進行適當處理提供相關協助．"},{"start":2840.143,"end":2861.109,"text":"保密及保護明文化將現行實務上有關處理資產霸凌申訴案件之人員對於申訴人之姓名以及其他足以辨識身份之資料應予以保密之作法明文規定並明定對於申訴人及其他參與協助之人不得為不當之差別待遇或不利處分"},{"start":2862.79,"end":2880.064,"text":"2.訂定專責調查機制由職場霸凌申評會專責調查其評議職場霸凌之認定涉及事件發生之背景工作環境以及霸凌行為樣態頻率目的及動機等具體情況之認定具有高度的專業性"},{"start":2881.636,"end":2907.532,"text":"原尼獨立組成職場霸凌申評會專責處理二、申評會組成專業化處理程序明文化職場霸凌申評會組成將擴大外部專業人士參與並將受理申訴處理流程期限保密等及迴避等均為明確規定使調查決定可以更為外界信賴各界信賴強化職場霸凌防制教育及保護"},{"start":2909.191,"end":2932.519,"text":"輔助措施．加強主管人員及同仁的教育訓練．並適當事人需要提供或轉介諮詢．輔導醫療．法律輔助及心理諮商等資源．恢復身心健康．建立後續追蹤監督機制．對於職場霸凌之行為．人依據相關公務員及其他相關法律予以懲處．並進行後續追蹤平和．以確保不再有霸凌及報復行為"},{"start":2935.41,"end":2939.442,"text":"研議事業單位霸凌執場霸凌防制的法制化一線型"},{"start":2940.997,"end":2966.053,"text":"職場霸凌預防及處理規定資安法及職業安全衛生設施規定以明定故主對於執行職務因他人行為而遭受身體及精神不法侵害應採取危害辨識評估工作場所配置與工作適性安排危害預防與溝通技巧訓練建構行為及規範申訴通報調查處理程序之措施"},{"start":2966.893,"end":2988.782,"text":"勞工人數達100人以上之事業單位．並依參考本部公告之執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引．訂定職場不法侵害預防計劃．並具以執行顧主若未落實設施規則所定之相關措施．經通知限期改善．限期為改善處3萬至15萬元罰還嚴議強化職場霸凌防制與外部申訴調查及處理機制為強化職場霸凌防制．各界之訴求除建議將現行"},{"start":2996.965,"end":3005.331,"text":"執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引提升到法律違節亦包括制定職場霸凌防制專法明確"},{"start":3010.118,"end":3032.62,"text":"明確職場霸凌認定強化申訴管道調查認定機制行為人若為僱主及處理及救濟程序內容為完善法制本部已採取下列措施收集國際法制與作法本部已收集歐盟美國日本及韓國等國家對職場霸凌預防及處理事相關作法經初步了解目前國際尚無"},{"start":3034.181,"end":3056.133,"text":"大齡房制制定專法且無明確定一五第三方調查機制日本及韓國是分別與勞動基準法及勞動失策綜合推進法明定僱主因房子因職務或關係優勢造成勞工身心痛苦或惡化工作環境之規定廣正外界意見"},{"start":3056.853,"end":3073.093,"text":"研議強化職場霸凌及至本部就如何提升職場霸凌防制之法令制度課正研議中,無論是採取強化現行職安法徵修規定或研議職場霸凌專法或專章等方案均持開放性廣大"},{"start":3074.134,"end":3099.375,"text":"開放性態度廣納各界意見．並將秉持勞資雙方共識下省慎橫著勞工勞動權益與雇主公司治理權限之橫平性研議務實可行之方案三研議職場霸凌申訴及諮詢專線為進一步提供勞工專線申訴及諮詢服務克正評估建制受理職場霸凌申訴專線之可行性結語為確保所有工作者"},{"start":3099.975,"end":3128.277,"text":"安全與健康本部課證強化機關內部員工申訴調查與處理機制並精進相關預防措施針對強化企業職場霸凌預防的部分持續透過宣導輔導檢查等手段強化僱主落實法尊並藉由多元策進營造友善健康與安全之企業文化預防職場不法侵害針對本部所屬機關發生職場霸凌事件本部以深切檢討並虛心接受各界指證"},{"start":3129.378,"end":3147.37,"text":"未來如除加速完備本部及所屬單位之申訴調查處理機制外將持續透過社會多方對話完善職場霸凌防制機制健全申訴調查及處理機制維護勞動權益以上報告進行指教並助主席各位委員身體健康萬事如意謝謝"},{"start":3153.075,"end":3168.461,"text":"有關本市會議各項疏遠資料今列入紀錄刊登公報現在我們開始詢答做以下先告本委員會詢答時間8分鐘列席委員4分鐘10點半截止發言登記"},{"start":3169.881,"end":3190.336,"text":"委員若有書面質詢,請於上會前提出,預期不受理。暫定10點半左右,休息10分鐘。嚴則上,若有臨時提案,我們11點半處理。好,我們現在請第一位,11點截止說完臨時提案。現在請登記第一位委員,王玉琳,質詢。"},{"start":3197.154,"end":3199.956,"text":"謝謝主席,我們是不是有請洪部長來,洪部長請部長好,你今天是不是很緊張啊?因為我看你剛剛的報告你是逐字照稿演出,一字不漏,你是不是很緊張?其實這幾天已經很多媒體來詢問了,壓力是有,但不至於到緊張"},{"start":3225.748,"end":3230.511,"text":"因為我覺得如果是很熟練的話逐字念稿這個是比較罕見的剛剛還超時希望這個你可以升任愉快因為你是在沒有準備好的情況底下上任我想你的壓力應該特別大但是該監督的我們絕對是監督到底"},{"start":3242.216,"end":3260.136,"text":"第一個我就要問你有關於這個勞動部濫用救安基金8000萬那可以看到這個林林總總從整個外牆的整修連咖啡豆會議室的揚聲器的採購公文的這個文書信封還有垃圾的清運還有臉書"},{"start":3262.798,"end":3280.913,"text":"網路經營等等這些錢通通都要由救安基金來支出勞動部是不是把救安基金變成是你們的小金庫哪一個部會缺錢然後就從這個救安基金裡面把錢搬過來任意使用"},{"start":3282.759,"end":3307.333,"text":"跟委員報告齁,其實在上週我剛接任的時候,其實我其實就已經有交代同仁,針對救安基金的滋擁問題你承不承認現在的救安基金就是有使用腐爛、濫用的一個情況?部長你承不承認?我們在檢視過,上週我其實就要求我們針對救安基金的使用進行檢視我們在這幾天的檢視過程裡面,坦白說我們真的,我們是有發現部分的項目"},{"start":3308.288,"end":3335.149,"text":"只有部分嗎?八千萬算是部分項目嗎?是有部分的項目在致用的合一上面你認為現在所列出來這些項目通通由救安基金來使用合理嗎?包括你們的臉書網路的經營、垃圾的清運還有咖啡豆的採購、外牆整修通通都要由救安基金來支出這個合理嗎?委員我們是有認為裡面部分的項目確實是有問題的那幾項你告訴本席哪一項是不合理的?"},{"start":3336.144,"end":3356.256,"text":"還是你也認同我上週其實我們其實就看到比方說看到那個會議室的設備採購這個會議室的設備採購要花掉2250萬那我們其實因為上週我其實也到了法案署我看了那間會議室"},{"start":3357.901,"end":3374.317,"text":"那對於這個會議是要的這個整修要用到2000多萬這樣的經費坦白說我是不能接受的我就問你未來你現在已經當部長了未來這些項目支出在今年省救安基金的時候你們還會不會這樣子編列會不會這樣子使用"},{"start":3376.129,"end":3390.133,"text":"跟委員報告其實目前針對救安基金的支用我們其實已經未經交代法案署那我們一定是必須針對把關機制進行強化因為這裡面會有個案性的問題也有機制面的問題針對機制面的問題我們其實已經開始在邀請相關的"},{"start":3396.254,"end":3412.853,"text":"所以部長你也不敢直接回答這幾大項目現在大家揪出來的認為有濫用之語的你也不敢直接明確表態說以後你就不會這樣子編列這些項目一律不准從救安基金支出我覺得你不敢做這樣的稱呼你再迴避問題我沒有迴避問題"},{"start":3415.215,"end":3432.795,"text":"那你就直接告訴大家未來會不會這樣使用但是委員我想讓委員知道其實這裡面有一些相關的項目坦白說並不是現在所有媒體曝光出來的項目都每一項都有問題並不是所以你認同部分的項目部分的項目有問題"},{"start":3433.868,"end":3453.159,"text":"你覺得這部分有問題有些是你認同的以後還會這樣子使用就對了我們會在使用的名目上面更明確的做檢討他到底合不合宜我們會用資質的檢討來去處理問題本席就告訴你你們現在如何的濫用這個救安基金大家都在關注這個許民村的演唱會"},{"start":3454.48,"end":3482.586,"text":"你們對外說花了368.7萬元在這個演唱會結果我去調資料你們的計畫裡面根本沒有這個演唱會的項目我要問你們的是請問演唱會的舞台燈光音響樂團服裝人員這一些的支出項目到底在哪裡從你們提供給我的資料裡面沒有一筆是這樣的支出你們的支出是什麼大家看到"},{"start":3483.266,"end":3489.628,"text":"這個PVP上面的影帶製作204萬影像拍攝150萬平面設計8萬客製化的口罩12萬請問你們編列這樣的一個預算是文宣媒體採購結果變成了百萬的演唱會預算可以這樣子腐爛的使用嗎我們再看下一張"},{"start":3511.087,"end":3538.161,"text":"你這個是完全的細項喔你的影帶製作裡面你說你要做7支影帶一支影帶的金額是高達29萬0837元然後你的影像拍攝是一組145萬4163元還有平面設計兩組然後你還要做口罩非常的昂貴一個口罩要24塊"},{"start":3540.982,"end":3559.632,"text":"請問你這一些你勞動部還有書面的驗收記錄然後我就是看不出來演唱會的任何一筆支出到底在你這一個宣導製作裡面哪一筆是符合演唱會的支出通通都沒有那演唱會的錢從哪裡來你告訴本席那個跟網友報告齁"},{"start":3566.33,"end":3579.706,"text":"呃針對現在大家看到這個音樂會的活動其實也是一樣上週其實我們就請有單位來做報告第一個事情是確實性公法是臺灣包括性別平等包括勞動法之外非常標誌性的事件但是我要說的是對於"},{"start":3581.567,"end":3608.464,"text":"有部分的橋段的呈現確實如果讓這不是橋段呈現問題部長我現在在問你是說你們自己告訴本席的是你們這一個音樂會原位專編預算你是沒有編預算的結果你就直接把文宣媒體的通路的採購案直接的錢把它挪過來然後就去辦演唱會預算是可以這樣子用的嗎政風處處長你上來"},{"start":3613.336,"end":3614.177,"text":"我了解他是那個"},{"start":3634.673,"end":3643.798,"text":"整個就是媒體通路然後他他是一個開口合約然後再根據我們各個計劃的項目再去執行的"},{"start":3644.667,"end":3646.648,"text":"那你沒看到他的怎麼編列嗎?他的影帶製作一支要29萬多要做7支就佔掉200多萬了"},{"start":3666.653,"end":3674.018,"text":"那我就高度懷疑啊要嘛就是你這個媒體採購你根本就是浮邊亂邊都是灌水的天底下哪有那麼好的事情我要幫你做7支的影單一支成本高達29萬然後還要免費送你一個演唱會演唱會百萬等級的我沒有看過這樣子的一個一個開口合約我也沒有看過一個媒體可能會這麼大方要嘛就是你這一些所謂的媒體7支通通都是灌水的"},{"start":3696.013,"end":3699.254,"text":"就是腐爛製造的29萬應該要拍出什麼樣的水準你那7支影片提供給委員會我們大家來欣賞一下我們大家來看一下花29萬一支的這個影帶成本到底拍成什麼樣子這個是完全不合理的"},{"start":3712.439,"end":3726.007,"text":"這個就是違法挪用預算嘛那預算彥聰還可以過關腐爛到如此這般的程度這樣子是可以的嗎沒有編列在計畫裡面的預算也可以使用救安基金是這樣子用的嗎"},{"start":3727.13,"end":3734.413,"text":"本目前此案檢調其實已經來做調閱跟偵辦了你們自己都沒有發現有問題連政風處處長都不敢講一聲部長你也不覺得有問題我當然我沒有我不會說他沒有問題但是現在檢調確實已經在偵辦跟調閱中本部會全力配合檢調的調查"},{"start":3748.957,"end":3767.317,"text":"這個你以後要怎麼改善救安基金我們要怎麼樣監督現在你手上握有權力請問你要如何強化監督我們目前正在研議這個強化監督的機制你什麼時候機制要出來包括現在對於可能呈現的形式上面的批評跟指教當然我們都會納入這事情的參考你預計什麼時候提出來"},{"start":3767.958,"end":3791.873,"text":"我希望我真的是希望盡快因為這幾天我們其實就請同仁找外部的專業者來提供給我們專業的我想這個社會大家受不了這個救安基金變成是勞動部的金庫而且任意的挪用甚至還違法的使用這個絕對是大家沒有辦法忍受的事情所以我要求你應該要限期就要提出你的監督機制一個月可不可以可以"},{"start":3792.293,"end":3815.509,"text":"可以齁好我要求一個月之後你要把這個重新的監督管理機制提出來另外最後我要問你今天本來其實你應該要提提示這個調查報告有關於吳姓公務員親身的這個事件的調查報告按照那個期程之前勞動部答應委員會就是兩個禮拜的時間就是今天時間到了結果今天你隻字未提說還在重啟調查那我就問你我就問你期程你的調查報告什麼時候給委員會"},{"start":3822.393,"end":3823.736,"text":"我們目前預計下週會讓重啟調查的報告對外界來公告公布然後會來說明下週就可以下週下週禮拜七"},{"start":3834.592,"end":3853.882,"text":"我要跟委員說因為我們目前正在增加訪談的對象也是希望能夠讓這個調查報告更加的周延跟完整那我自己也希望要快可是確實這裡面的時間我自己可能我自己也希望盡快但我目前預期之人就是在下週下週一定要交出來而且下週我要求"},{"start":3855.243,"end":3878.863,"text":"針對這一個無姓員工他生前他的上班時值的時間上一次你們交的是10月22號為止喔你們的報告裡面必須往前回溯他到底從什麼時候開始就已經是過勞超時加班這些你應該都要一個一個你們既然是仔細的調查我要看到這個部分不可以只交10月22號的這一個上班紀錄"},{"start":3880.945,"end":3903.453,"text":"委員我想跟各位說明在這次的調查報告裡面我們當然更希望去還原這位無姓的公務員他究竟經歷了什麼我們很希望就這部分能夠把他理清楚那給家屬一個真誠的交代這是我們這次調查報告裡面我認為很重要的重點"},{"start":3904.133,"end":3905.675,"text":"這段時間大家各界其實有很多的建議其實在12月2號就是禮拜一的時候"},{"start":3924.733,"end":3943.995,"text":"職安署也請邀請了專家學者來做研商那專家學者其實提供了不管是專法或者是專章或者是比較小幅的修法各種優缺的意見所以你們現在還沒有訂件我現在持開放態度那你預計修法什麼時候要送到立法院來我一樣要求的是期程你們還要多久時間期程"},{"start":3946.337,"end":3962.038,"text":"我們上次跟委員會報告是我們這個預告進行然後我們會送行政院是一個 送立法院一個下個會期會來做進行下個會期是要等到明年了對明年什麼時候下個會期二月份一開一就會送進來"},{"start":3963.168,"end":3989.477,"text":"那個跟委員報告其實確實要做職場霸凌的法制的話這確實蠻多專業性的問題那我們也在參考目前國際上面法制相關的案例那如果要動的條件特別多的話 當然知道如果任何事情都要有目標要有期程要有具體的進度我們要求的是這個不可以遙遙無期啊當然我們絕對不會遙遙無期那就是下個會期一定要送進來我們希望對二月份我們希望下個會期能夠送進來好"},{"start":3992.019,"end":3994.722,"text":"主席 麻煩我們的紅部長"},{"start":4018.324,"end":4034.715,"text":"11月4日北分署發生不幸事件讓整個社會感到震驚在這事件當中勇於赴任本席跟全國民眾都對你充滿期待根據勞動部11月26日"},{"start":4037.757,"end":4053.289,"text":"的新聞稿指出你上任的第一天就公布了三大措施也就是申訴直通我們的部長室然後杜絕送禮文化廢除5S所以本席認為這是長久以來公務文化的一個正面的挑戰"},{"start":4054.33,"end":4072.941,"text":"不過也想問的就是是不是讓你有一些時間去說明就是說這次事件當中受害最深的自然是發展署的那個北分署的同仁們而勞動部的同仁們也是感同身受所以你對這次有什麼樣更具體的做法剛剛前面當然有一部分報告是不是讓你多一點時間來做說明"},{"start":4076.28,"end":4087.947,"text":"謝謝林委員其實在上週禮拜一我這個就任後隔天我其實就到北分我們就到北分署去做了訪查一個早上在訪查過程中"},{"start":4089.161,"end":4104.042,"text":"坦白說我很清楚的感覺到目前北分署整個署的同仁蠻多的其實的心理上面的狀況在長期的這個不當管理的情況之下其實蠻多看起來都有一些狀況"},{"start":4105.985,"end":4124.411,"text":"所以我要說其實確實現在我們看到這個所謂的霸凌的問題可能不是只是這個謝前分署長針對吳姓的公務員而已而是他其實是一個在帶領整個這個分署的過程裡面其實普遍性的管理作風"},{"start":4125.851,"end":4149.451,"text":"都是有問題的但是涉及到一些細節的部分可能留待這個重啟調查的報告所以在這狀況下面其實我們有意識到我們的工作一開始要優先的來支持北分署的員工所以我們其實有規劃了一個針對北分署的職場重建與員工支持方案在這個方案裡面有幾個很重要第一個我們需要給"},{"start":4150.331,"end":4165.488,"text":"本分數的員工很明確的法律上面的支持因為其實現在本分數員工也受到不管是檢調甚至警方或各個調查單位來去做約詢其實大家心裡壓力也是很大所以讓大家有一個明確的法律的支持"},{"start":4166.349,"end":4195.188,"text":"這很重要那目前這已經在辦理中了第二個就像剛才講的大家在心理上面其實是有受傷的情況壓力很大或者是這個很多的不安那我們除了現有當然講這個EAP就是每個每個部會都有的EAP的資源外我們目前也規劃了一個去連結這個北北基宜其實相關的心理諮商的資源希望能夠讓分署的員工可以自選這些資源你可能就你的"},{"start":4196.428,"end":4217.194,"text":"這個比較近的地方或者是你可信任的心理諮商資源你都可以去做心理諮商那相關的費用都會由勞動部來做支應我們希望能夠給予北分署的員工至少最大的支持能夠讓大家從過去比較負面的狀況下面逐漸的回到正軌我想這是我們現在很重要優先的工作"},{"start":4217.674,"end":4242.715,"text":"好謝謝部長的確這很重要因為過去我們在民間服務的時候碰到這些事情的話的確他們需要的是法律上的一些諮詢比如說要到法院裡面如果要做證人或者什麼的話他們真的很需要還有心理的安定那另外就想問接續問說你如何強化勞動部的申訴機制所以我們的發展署這北分署是一個"},{"start":4242.995,"end":4243.595,"text":"現有的機制做出一些優化,比方說"},{"start":4271.86,"end":4286.388,"text":"這個申訴處理成員的專業化這部分很重要第二個我們也會來追蹤列管其實相關的案件重點就是要確保不會有吃案的狀況會出現所以這幾個是現有機制的優化我們會來做但"},{"start":4287.088,"end":4305.883,"text":"我想大家也知道說這個安全衛生小組的這個他們其實受理的範圍很廣所以我們會也先目前在規劃把關於職場霸凌的部分的專責化會拉出來另立一個機制讓大家在另外的這個機制裡面來去做進行那目前的法制作業我也要求我們就趕快來把"},{"start":4306.984,"end":4334.134,"text":"趕快來讓這個這個市場霸凌防治的專責的這個機制趕快做出來而不是只是放在安全衛生防護小組裡面目前大概是這樣子那剛剛因為前面王委員也問因為最近媒體報導就救安基金的帳目不清以招挪用的爭議有沒有有要再做補充甚至未來你大概怎麼去執行這一塊減少掉這樣子的一個相關的問題"},{"start":4337.306,"end":4359.233,"text":"確實過去其實勞動部一直來本部的預算都比較少所以有很多的資用變成是在用救安基金來去做相關的資用他有他本身的一些結構性的問題那我們當然也會盡量的來跟行政院來爭取勞動部本部的預算應該要再能夠再做擴充這是第一點第二點是就像剛剛我們其實有講到"},{"start":4361.142,"end":4380.247,"text":"我們也檢視了目前救安基金包括管理會相關的機制我們確實覺得是有強化的必要那但是這個強化也涉及到一些也許涉及到一些審計相關的專業不管是事前或者是事後事前預防或者是事後的檢視的一些專業所以我們現在在也正在找相關專業的專業者來去做討論"},{"start":4383.908,"end":4402.995,"text":"那咨詢他們把他們意見納進來後我們趕快把剛才說到說可能我們希望能不能在一個月左右的時間把強化的機制能夠送出然後讓外界對於這個接下來從機制面的改善來去做救安基金致用的把關好謝謝部長也希望你後邊能夠因為"},{"start":4403.871,"end":4433.48,"text":"前朝產生的問題你這邊希望透過你的類似的一些做法能夠來做好把關像這次除了講到職場霸凌實際上還有一個非常很大的問題是因為我們的公務人員的保障法第23條制定了各機關的加班費的資給辦法那公務人員加班的申請加班費退休這些勞動條件都有明文規定可是有時候我們看申請加班主管核准那當然加班"},{"start":4433.959,"end":4458.462,"text":"可是如果主管不核准的話他自行加班可是很多業務掛在身上他導致他們必須還是要把工作完成的時候那有時候加班費不足那就請他補休可是有時候大量的這樣的加班可能我們就最後加班費沒辦法支應的時候最後就是補休可是到年底的時候可能一筆勾銷加班的補休也沒辦法"},{"start":4459.184,"end":4486.731,"text":"所以我不知道部長對加班的黑數你應該都很清楚過去你一直關心勞動朋友們他們不管在企業體或者現在公務體系也有這樣狀況的話你對這樣的黑數的問題是你上任以來要處理的狀況嗎好這部分我分兩部分來回答第一個勞動部下面確實是有正式的公務人員也有一些約聘的適用勞基法的工作人員那針對適用勞基法的部分我們會要求"},{"start":4488.905,"end":4510.142,"text":"我們的業務單位該加班的問題該怎麼記就怎麼記務必要符合老基法這是這個約片的部分那公務員確實有一個加班的上限那我會一直來要求同仁說絕對要避免黑數的狀況不要再有那種好像要大家去打了卡然後再叫大家加班的情況確實現在會有一個上限"},{"start":4511.283,"end":4540.026,"text":"那我會來盡力的在我們的工作的作業流程裡面去檢討怎麼樣子減少同仁不必要的負擔這當然是減少加班一個非常重要的重點可是符合規定也是我會要求很重要的重點謝謝部長因為你過去在當立委的時候就一直跟勞動朋友是站在一起的我也希望秉持這樣的心能夠持續那最後就想問一下因為大家都還是很關心因為蜜兔應該講是"},{"start":4541.511,"end":4542.157,"text":"職場霸凌的蜜兔運動"},{"start":4543.587,"end":4572.947,"text":"所以剛剛也提到你修法因為不是只有公務體系事實上我們也很關心因為我們辦公室就很常收到民眾對於他在企業上班結果被職場霸凌的時候到勞動局去申訴通常都是已讀不回或者說那這個不是在範圍內所以我們當然就很關心修法那可是先修法剛剛你也回答前面王委員問的時候你說那因為還是要等到下個會期可是當中可以做些什麼"},{"start":4573.936,"end":4603.796,"text":"好一樣我分兩個部分第一個部分就是確實執安法目前在職場霸凌上面的定義我們在解釋過確實還有可以要比恐怕是必須要定的更加清楚對一些樣態你才有辦法在這個法條的執行上面是足夠明確不會引起爭議所以這是針對這個霸凌法制化這防制霸凌法制化的部分我們會絕對會加速來做這是第一個第二個是其實現在是有這個執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引"},{"start":4604.576,"end":4631.915,"text":"那我會請職安署來研議針對這個執行趕快來做優化因為確實修法需要的時間比較多但當下其實現在在一些不同的職場裡面已經有相關的案件很多人反應恐怕不一定能夠等得及修法但這個部分就這個執行本身我們趕快先來做優化那就像剛才說其實處理相關的要怎麼樣專業化或者是怎麼樣避免失案的狀況我覺得會是我們在這個執行裡面把它修訂很重要的一種的環節這麻煩因為我們希望說"},{"start":4632.535,"end":4632.855,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":4654.588,"end":4666.874,"text":"能夠讓他們順利解決這問題可是還是希望法能夠盡速來做調整以上謝謝謝謝謝謝林委員謝謝部長繼續我們請陳清薇委員質詢謝謝主席謝謝委員我也請洪部長"},{"start":4681.128,"end":4706.213,"text":"部長我們上個會期王玉敏委員擔任召委的時候那個時候針對一些消防人員的意外我們曾經排審公會法但當時呢全序部考試院來了他們說再給他們一點時間他們想要再擬更詳細的這個公務人員協會法那這邊本席是找出您之前的一段發言幫我播一下"},{"start":4708.41,"end":4728.502,"text":"其實是因為剛有工會以後,裡面就包括了罷工權。我自己是支持,我覺得可以有罷工權。但我知道這個社會裡面有很多人沒有不支持這件事情。這個事情可能是比較爭議的,或者是需要共識的地方。"},{"start":4729.718,"end":4740.589,"text":"好那考試院全序部呢今年7月就端了一個新的菜色出來首先他先降低門檻可是警察還有消防人員對這樣子的門檻並沒有滿意他是300人150人他的門檻還是過高剛林月琴委員有稱讚您說您非常貼近我們勞工朋友的心啊"},{"start":4750.76,"end":4764.776,"text":"老公現在這個修正工會法已經從30人降到10人了這個相信您也很清楚您之前在節目上的發言也很感動我們的消防人員所以我也想知道說您在節目中講的這個"},{"start":4766.818,"end":4779.347,"text":"公會這個如果修公務人員的協會法他現在只能提出行政救濟啊訴訟還是很難進行協商因為他們並沒有團結權協商權以及罷工權那我也想問您今天是否有這個意願會想幫助我們的消防員朋友警察朋友等等的可以納入公會法的修訂呢"},{"start":4793.1,"end":4806.577,"text":"好 謝謝陳委員對於公務人員是否能夠組公會的問題就像你剛才說這部分確實有涉及到考試員的權責我想大家都很清楚那我們當然很願意跟考試員一起來討論那就像你剛才拿出的這個這個"},{"start":4808.666,"end":4826.602,"text":"影片裡面如果就主公會來說大概一般來講會有三個重要的權利協商權結社權跟罷工權那罷工權的部分確實是目前大家在討論這公務人員或主公會裡面比較爭最爭議的我其實之前我講的很清楚"},{"start":4827.603,"end":4853.284,"text":"所以我當然現在是一個勞動部長我覺得我很願意就是說針對至少針對比方說像協商權跟結社權這部分來跟考試院來做充分的討論跟支持我很願意但是我們必須就像我節目說的目前因為主動的跟考試院來做聯繫我們當然願意來跟考試院來反映大家的需求可是我要說的是目前這個相關的法規的組織是在考試院"},{"start":4854.745,"end":4860.369,"text":"就像我說罷工權確實在目前社會上面是爭議的事件是爭議的事情"},{"start":4863.413,"end":4883.877,"text":"所以至少我覺得就可以先優先來保障的事情是結社權跟協商權就是比較沒有爭議可以優先來保障也是有一個可能衛環委員會再把它拿回衛環來保障這些警消人員我們重新修法假使基層的這些人員並不滿意這個提出來的新版公務人員協會法的話這個是勞動部2017年提出來的報告"},{"start":4889.939,"end":4913.276,"text":"2017年他們曾經講過說針對這樣子的問題我們看到辛苦的消防人員年輕的生命不斷的在各個的新聞不斷不斷在流逝他們之前提出四個建議一個是修正公務人員協會法第二個是修正公會法第三個是針對公務人員結社法另立新法第四是維持現行法制具體的改善工作條件到目前"},{"start":4915.317,"end":4922.224,"text":"都還沒有任何一個實現而我們已經換到第三個勞動部長了第一個勞動部部長王委員剛剛已經看了他拿錢去開演唱會第二個勞動部部長他提出來的檢討報告大家不買單我們現在換到第三個年輕有為的勞動部部長而且是首先在節目上支持消防人員的所以我想問這個就是勞動部提出來的四個建議您會從哪一個下手呢"},{"start":4942.258,"end":4968.121,"text":"我剛才說我認為應該從現在社會上面爭議比較小的開始下手是哪一個就是關於公務人員的協商權跟結社權的保障這部分當然我們很願意優先的來跟考試院一起來做討論就勞動部本身我們當然願意來做討論這是在社會上比較沒有爭議的坦白說就剛才說確實現在的罷工權的部分是比較高度爭議的部分"},{"start":4969.252,"end":4992.901,"text":"所以我們大概什麼時候可以知道您跟考試院討論出來的結果的報告因為這些相關的法規其實目前其實是考試院下面的權責所以我沒有辦法在這邊我們要去問考試院我沒有辦法在這邊替考試院回答一個時間上面的承諾那可能不好意思我不知道未來是不是還有朝委又會再把這一題拿回來我們衛黃委員會重新的討論"},{"start":4994.667,"end":5021.19,"text":"但這召委召委的排案權我在行政部門的角度當然是只能尊重那再來因為本席也是婦產科醫師所以之前看到您有許許多多的提案其實是很為我們的孕婦產婦進行一個關懷而且友善的職場只可惜許許多的提案最後沒有走到三讀那我相信這個提案對你來說應該是很重要因為你上一屆也有提出來"},{"start":5022.09,"end":5026.434,"text":"這件也有提出來但是至今已經過了434天了您說啊您要把孕婦的產檢價賠產配偶的賠產價等等都全部改名為生產準備價然後不僅要放寬適用的範圍不限於讓勞工只能用在產檢或賠產價更可以用在參與產前的教育這一點您覺得呢"},{"start":5046.06,"end":5073.483,"text":"其實針對對於孕婦尤其是跟性別平等相關的支持其實我這幾天其實在很短的上任時間我其實已經交代同仁這是我們接下來很重要的工作尤其是照顧不離職的部分所以我們會已經要求把相關綜合的法規因為有些時候包括賠償減價包括家庭照顧價包括等等等其實它有很多的細項我們其實已經請業務單位要做一個綜合性的評估所以我們大概什麼時候會看到這個"},{"start":5074.744,"end":5077.507,"text":"所以您的意思是說你以前寫這個提案的時候可能後來想一想覺得要綜合性的評估會好一點"},{"start":5100.374,"end":5100.735,"text":"當然要綜合性的考慮"},{"start":5115.486,"end":5135.923,"text":"好那另外一個這也是您提出性別平等工作法第29條的修正最後非常可惜也沒有到三讀您認為說受僱者或受僱求職者如果受到的不是財產上損害的話這些損害來自於性騷擾那你主張可以把精神上的不利益影響納入法定最終應該支付的賠償金額來做計算"},{"start":5139.406,"end":5149.954,"text":"我也想問因為剛剛您也是講了蠻長的你要再去找國際的法律看看如何修霸凌的精神損害等等的那這也是您以前的主張您也會覺得說您可以維持你的主張嗎?"},{"start":5156.298,"end":5178.716,"text":"這個主張的初衷當然是從勞工的立場出發所以這些個別的主張我覺得第一個一定會秉持這個事情的初衷那把它放到接下來我們機制化或法制化修法的計畫裡面我們會把這些初衷尤其是從勞工角度出發的初衷當然會盡量放進接下來的修法計畫裡面"},{"start":5180.854,"end":5202.967,"text":"之前有發生過您的助理辱罵警察還有您針對這個霸凌案您其實很早就知道了但是您的說法是說您沒有行政職權所以當時沒有辦法處理那現在您已經有行政職權了所以我也想知道說這些東西您的期程是如何不然我們還要再寫臨時提案跟你來回"},{"start":5205.19,"end":5229.346,"text":"今天陳委員報告因為確實我上任的時間到目前其實大概10天在這10天裡面我不要想推脫時間不會啊你也可以說三個月啊你也可以說兩個月我沒有想要推脫給時間但是我說我必須跟業務單位針對因為這都是重大議題而且它其實涉及到的層面很廣我確實必須跟業務單位做更仔細的討論這部分我認為這是比較謹慎跟負責任的做法三個月"},{"start":5231.702,"end":5232.643,"text":"我已經跟大家強調這件事情了"},{"start":5250.081,"end":5275.389,"text":"這個如果大家需要連結我昨天看的是非常感動啦因為您總質詢15分鐘全部都是在講同樣一件事我不知道您記不記得當時您拿這個經濟學的諾貝爾得主Claudia Golden你還用了她論文裡面許多的圖來告訴陳建仁院長說女性的勞參率有多低男女的薪資差異有多大然後問題到底在哪裡那我們播一下您點出問題在哪裡"},{"start":5277.5,"end":5278.541,"text":"這是很多年輕的爸爸媽媽共同在反映的問題"},{"start":5297.148,"end":5320.872,"text":"所以我看了真的很好我把15分鐘全部都看完了畢竟我也是女性在職場工作的所以非常有感受啦各黨委員在這個會期都提出還有上個會期提出性別平等工作法還有相關的法規都有把親職假親職照顧假等等你剛剛一直在講到說沒有彈性太僵硬太難用你這件事情一直告訴誰這是很久以前了去年3月"},{"start":5321.733,"end":5327.648,"text":"對所以呢我也想知道說未來你的這個修法的期程還有進度是如何"},{"start":5329.352,"end":5355.371,"text":"其實我在上任的第一天其實那天記者會上其實就跟大家說照顧不離職是我們工作的重點其實這個總諮詢的影片從頭到尾在講就是照顧不離職這個主題那目前確實相關的包括育嬰假等等等我到目前都認為還是有太過僵硬的問題應該要盡快的來做彈性化可是我要跟"},{"start":5356.903,"end":5369.083,"text":"成員報告因為這確實涉及到我們要跟不管是勞方的專業的意見要能夠進來包括性別團體的專業意見要進來也包括這裡面會跟要跟企業端來做一定程度的討論"},{"start":5371.434,"end":5398.279,"text":"我只能我跟你說這是絕對是我重點重的重點優先中的優先可是我們可能沒有辦法現在提供一個說到底什麼時間點的問題但這絕對是我們的重點最優先的事情所以我們今天問了一大堆問題全部都沒有任何的啟程啊你沒有辦法告訴我們可能再給我們再給我們一點時間我們來做跟業務單位來做更仔細的規劃之後再來問你做到哪裡做到哪裡開了哪些會"},{"start":5399.272,"end":5403.096,"text":"沒有問題這個是我曾經寫的臨時提案那當時勞動部部長是回應我說是否增訂較為彈性的輕直價就跟你剛剛講的一模一樣所以我也不知道換了一個人到底會不會有什麼改變實務上人需考量各行各業"},{"start":5416.65,"end":5417.511,"text":"這當然會是任何的法規修訂我們必須去考慮的點但"},{"start":5437.847,"end":5439.148,"text":"所以你的意思是說您的任內"},{"start":5453.482,"end":5480.524,"text":"會有改變會有彈性價也會有留職就是留在職場讓女性留在職場的意願更高的這件事發生我當然高度期望這件事情我高非常高度期望這件事情所以我我們現在會用積極溝通現在確實在企業端裡面會有一些人表達有疑慮但我們不會就說你有疑慮我就讓事情停在這裡我們會積極跟他溝通一步一步的來跟他溝通"},{"start":5481.405,"end":5489.818,"text":"你剛才說是在我任內我當然希望在這部分有突破那你有發現是哪些產業留職率最低你想先從哪些產業開始溝通嗎"},{"start":5491.553,"end":5517.735,"text":"其實因為這些產業裡面也有不同大小的規模目前我們其實看到其實在一些比較人數比較大的規模裡面他們去做類似上面在人事上面的彈性的調動的難易度是比較低的其實您的總質詢講得非常好您大聲的告訴陳建仁院長說有33萬的女性沒有辦法留在職場對我是建議您這33萬你要先去找最多的是哪一個產業是"},{"start":5519.136,"end":5542.748,"text":"然後你從那個產業開始溝通所以我也非常非常願意因為我知道你在這方面也有你很專業的意見我也非常非常願意我們再跟你有更多的討論也請你再提供我們很多你自己的意見跟指教這部分我也很願意的最後我們來討論一下您的這份報告您上面有講到說您眼裡設置一個專門的霸凌專線我想問這個跟你既有的1955勞工申訴諮詢24小時不斷電的專線有什麼不同"},{"start":5547.014,"end":5554.729,"text":"我跟委員報告齁因為在當然在我上任前當然我們在處理尤其是北分署的事件的時候"},{"start":5557.264,"end":5578.116,"text":"呃大家對於申訴的機制其實有蠻多的不信任所以當時其實在這個非常的時期當時我就公佈了一個我自己專屬的可是你也只有給北分署啊是那你知道後面還有很多委員要來跟你講其他部門的報告我知道我知道因為相關的案件結果沒有人打到你手機全部打到我們委員辦公室啊"},{"start":5579.609,"end":5603.332,"text":"重點是我覺得重點是我們怎麼去處理一個不會讓大家覺得吃案的機制因為這中間當然他申訴的過程他會經過哪些路徑這當然最後是我們要處理所以表示你這個沒有啊因為不然他不會打到我們各委員的辦公室啊等一下就會有人問你我今天是沒時間問是對所以我說建立建立"},{"start":5604.045,"end":5605.487,"text":"所以你設好了沒還沒嚴寧"},{"start":5626.732,"end":5652.03,"text":"報告委員我們跟部長討論的結果是這樣子我們目前1955是所有的勞工申訴都在進來如果針對新一點健康部分包括霸凌部分我們會希望用我們新的資源包括預防重新中心這個資源在北東南東之前我曾經質詢過你很少人去質詢很難預約的所以我想說在這兩個月的討論那個資源可以挹注過去那勞工可以就近的一些"},{"start":5652.67,"end":5680.774,"text":"尋求的電話資源跟心理諮商我想把那個資源做這樣的連結可是因為您的報告裡面也寫到說現在你也尋求外部的心理支持然後勞動部會幫忙買單所以這件事情你是要持續做還是只是最近暫時做以後還是回到他的部門跟委員報我們確實有一個在非常時期裡面我們現在必須先做的事情因為目前確實5%的同仁們的心理狀況是比較多的"},{"start":5682.227,"end":5682.387,"text":"所以您的意思是說"},{"start":5705.387,"end":5727.62,"text":"但未來當然要把他引導入把機制給優化好引導回引導回優化的機制上確實不能永遠都靠我的專屬電話我想這是我們很清楚是沒有我在講說這個外部心理支持是其實是我們認證比較有效的對因為如果你從內部去給大家同仁是不敢去說的"},{"start":5728.28,"end":5728.76,"text":"可是他剛說還是會最後會回去內部的欸"},{"start":5745.643,"end":5768.771,"text":"不是不是不是不是這意思我們會在至少在這段時間裡面針對北分署的這個不當管理的事件在這先就這個專屬的範範籌裡面先提供大家外部諮商資源的這樣子的支持大家去找我們這是單參考衛福部的做法在衛福部的做法他們大概在北北基宜相關的專業的諮商資源把這個網絡的連結給"},{"start":5772.602,"end":5775.343,"text":"之前我們要求你要有新的報告而且您說你現在也正在做這個新的報告"},{"start":5794.61,"end":5821.53,"text":"這個新的報告你是如果你要推翻之前舊的調查報告其實舊的報告已經被謝宜蓉的律師拿來做法庭上的攻防是那之後你們要怎麼解決這件事情第一個我們會有新的報告然後在這個新的報告裡面我們希望能夠更從被壓迫的無性公務員的角度去還原到底他經歷了什麼"},{"start":5824.09,"end":5828.365,"text":"那希望這個還原出來能夠讓更多的事實能夠浮現出來"},{"start":5830.898,"end":5855.683,"text":"讓事實能夠呈現跟浮現出來能夠有個釐清我想對大家的理解或者不管是對於部內後續的處理包括法律的處理其實會有更清楚的依據所以我們的調查報告不會當然不會停留在第一份當時的那些內容尤其是大家會認為好像有過度去同情所以有一些有可能會推翻的新事證嗎?會有嗎?"},{"start":5857.643,"end":5859.584,"text":"那何沛山部長他的上一份報告他有寫到說"},{"start":5884.275,"end":5908.923,"text":"他這個親身的員工也有一大部分是因為他認為業務分配不均必須重新檢討可是你今天這份報告完全沒有提到業務你有講到心理支持這些很好你有講到申訴管道這些是你要去改的那如果針對這些業務分配何佩珊部長覺得這也是他親身的原因之一的話您是不是應該也要把他列進報告呢"},{"start":5910.285,"end":5934.311,"text":"那個跟跟委員報告齁確實現在在北分署的這事情上我們這個報告裡面著墨比較少因為這是要留待這個重啟調查的報告裡面來做公佈跟呈現所以針對北分署的內容我沒有意識到一些問題包括剛才講到說業務分配或人力結構上面問題我沒有意識到這個問題但這裡面關於北分署事件的一些細節"},{"start":5936.391,"end":5945.118,"text":"可能希望讓我們留到下禮拜我們公布的這個衝擊調查報告裡面來做呈現主席謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝陳委員謝謝部長那接下來我們請陳昭之委員質詢謝謝主席有請洪部長"},{"start":5964.097,"end":5985.684,"text":"謝謝陳委員部長你剛剛在回答陳敬輝委員的時候你說警消組工會最有爭議的是什麼部分你說是罷工權我認為現在社會上面就是說看法不一的確實是針對罷工權的部分什麼叫爭議爭議就是大家看法有蠻多的不同你上任部長也很有爭議嗎"},{"start":5987.915,"end":5998.203,"text":"什麼叫爭議要有證據的我的代孕法案八成支持國家民調支持六成支持兩成不反對我有八成的人支持結果貴黨還是說爭議啊所以什麼叫罷工權有爭議請部長要有科學證據"},{"start":6006.413,"end":6016.075,"text":"我說的爭議的問題我不是要否認我不是要說因為我知道對公會來說罷工權很重要爭議要有針對你同意嗎爭議要有針對你要有國家級民調嘛不是隨便網路上大家這樣說一個平台就解決啦爭議不是隨便說說的你現在是部長喔短短幾天你從這個監督別人變成被監督人請問部長你把這個角色轉換完成了嗎"},{"start":6032.421,"end":6045.788,"text":"我們當然希望盡快然後也在適應中那也很謝謝很多同仁的協助你公開說你不用被恭喜那我倒是這個態度給予肯定因為畢竟這是犧牲了一條人命之後的換來的一個結果"},{"start":6047.469,"end":6075.063,"text":"大家都很難過發生這樣的事情那當時勞動部的這個調查報告不僅沒有辦法釐清真相嘛這是火上加油嘛才會有今天的結果所以我向部長你要還給北屬北分屬同仁的家屬一個公道要還給全臺灣人民一個真相啊這是我們現在正在做的希望做的事情那本席提的問題請部長時問時答不要閃躲啊不要呼嚨我不要和氣可以嗎可以嗎"},{"start":6081.636,"end":6091.8,"text":"這位分署長過去的長官說他沒有收到相關的檢舉這事情我沒有辦法接受連我自己因為我之前在衛環我都聽過相關的傳聞"},{"start":6094.653,"end":6097.554,"text":"你聽到這個鬼故事之後隔了多久隔了多久你向勞動部反映"},{"start":6125.136,"end":6150.696,"text":"呃跟委員報告其實這是我在媒體上面我們其實說明過第一個因為確實你知道我上一屆聽到又何時向勞動部反映你當時是立委啊其實是其實並不是今年二月現在大家一直說二月並不是二月沒有關係是隔了多久所以我沒有問你日期是隔了多久在應該是在去年隔了多久你聽到這個訊息然後隔了多久你的勞動部反映應該沒有多久但是具體的時間幾天幾個月幾週"},{"start":6154.997,"end":6155.958,"text":"那當時是向勞動部反應?向誰?"},{"start":6179.844,"end":6199.011,"text":"因為這是發生在分署的事情所以勞動部是那你有沒有持續關心反應後就結束了有沒有持續關心我的個性都追到底你是比我更優秀的委員不是嗎更資深優秀的委員你有沒有持續關心我們在反應後做了這個提醒我好沒聽過你質詢的是我沒有在這題開記者會身為立委你不追究勞動部的責任嗎"},{"start":6206.982,"end":6215.3,"text":"向委員報告確實我們那時候是有相關的聽聞但坦白說因為不是有陳情人來跟我陳情或者是我當時手上有具體的證據"},{"start":6216.81,"end":6236.292,"text":"聽的時候就要去問啊所以當時我聽聞以後我當時的作用就像我剛才說我沒有當時沒有行政相關的管理權限我其實就跟勞動部做相關的反應部長如果當立委你都有追究權追究的責任你當時都沒有這樣做那我現在怎麼知道你當了你現在有行政權你會辦到底啊"},{"start":6237.624,"end":6256.706,"text":"我現在當然要辦到底你公開跟大家說你要辦到底嗎當然時間 還有時間喔我們現在就在辦當然辦到底但事實上二月阿二月的時候阿那貴黨的這個議員當然就有提出來這個不但霸凌還貪污阿剛剛前面的委員都提到這些事情那不了了之嘛"},{"start":6257.507,"end":6270.383,"text":"這就是不了了之嘛那當時約談這個我很重視這個部分因為我想在前端去了解問題為什麼後面沒辦法阻止悲劇發生當時這個約談謝宜蓉的王安邦次長突然離職了"},{"start":6273.106,"end":6299.278,"text":"何部長在上次質詢的時候答應我會重啟重啟二月陳情案的調查而且一周內完成那當時因為你還沒有就任部長可是你現在相任一周內你要蓋瓜承受請問調查的結果是什麼到底二月的陳情案調查的結果是什麼向陳委員說明目前就這個可能涉及到標案跟採購的部分就這部分"},{"start":6300.737,"end":6304.704,"text":"其實檢調已經開始在查了二月只有標案跟採購案沒有霸凌案"},{"start":6305.506,"end":6334.79,"text":"就我知道當時就我目前理解的資訊是當時主要是針對這個是舊的東西已經做完了欸這不能修改不能偽造文書欸那個是什麼就什麼啊就我理解齁欸你看得到啊為什麼會就你理解你看得到啊我才有就我理解啊我說就我理解的資訊當時比較不是針對霸凌案的問題比較是針對一些經費使用的問題經費使用更嚴重啊刑法啊所以我說在經費使用的問題在標案或採購上面的誰在斥案到底誰在斥案"},{"start":6339.169,"end":6361.989,"text":"目前確實檢調針對尤其是標案或者是採購的問題下面目前正在偵辦那我們部裡面對於這些檢調偵辦我們會全力配合但是我今天前面兩集我也是關注這個部分這個也很重要我今天關注是那條人命就是說你說二月調查沒有提及霸凌案你確定"},{"start":6362.857,"end":6381.792,"text":"就我目前看到的資料裡面他主要是針對經費的使用的狀況你說沒有談霸凌案那到底就誰吃案啊許明春說是王安邦沒有往上呈報啊那林淑芬說謝宜蓉的靠山是許明春啊那到底真相是怎麼樣民進黨派新內鬥鬥出一條人命是這樣嗎社會能接受嗎"},{"start":6385.851,"end":6408.053,"text":"我的意思是說部長我到今天從頭到尾跟你談說你知道有沒有辦法去做一些事二月有調查有沒有辦法做一些事很多事在前面可能有機會把這個悲劇擋住我今天的重點在這個地方啊所以二月份的報告我要有結果我要看到報告這個是當時他承諾那你要代官承受可以嗎我要看到二月份發生什麼事那個"},{"start":6410.106,"end":6414.267,"text":"剪掉歸剪掉,你內部有約談紀錄?剪掉針對標案跟採購的部分,因為目前剪掉正在調查,所以他們希望針對這個採購跟標案的部分,我們先暫緩"},{"start":6431.63,"end":6432.55,"text":"我們先讓這個台上代表發言"},{"start":6461.46,"end":6489.382,"text":"我們會把這樣這樣的聲音也一樣我們會把它帶回到行政部門裡面部長當時5月1號勞動節你上台了很享受那麼多的群眾吧這種經驗我也有過啊部長你答應啊你答應把這個聲音帶回行政部門跟立法院當時你是立法委員那你有嗎還是只有你進去這個勞工的聲音沒有走到勞動部結果是你自己走到勞動部當然有反應給行政部門你有反應嗎當然那我請教你喔期間假什麼時候還給勞工"},{"start":6491.435,"end":6513.695,"text":"第一我知道很多委員跟勞工朋友都很關心工時問題那我當然支持勞工降低工時上面的負擔那行動行動那當然現在講到基金價也就是關於國定價值調整的問題現在這個國定價值調整的問題目前主管的法規是今天是節日實施辦法這個法規的主管是內政部"},{"start":6515.258,"end":6541.946,"text":"我當然會來反映勞工各種在這個議題上面的意見但確實現在關於國定假日調整的問題他的主管法規是在內政部我同意這個部分你可以有一些時間我以後再來再進一步瞭解當天你到五一勞動的那個場合的時候他們有提出了五大訴求跟16項主張你不用一一背出來你記得幾條"},{"start":6544.747,"end":6558.91,"text":"你會記嗎?稍微會記嗎?你會記嗎?我們可以再提醒我,對阿不然你去還是去啊?因為時間真的有點久,對阿但是你上去又聽他們講話阿當然當然當然阿不然你去做秀阿?阿隨便幾條都問不出來喔?阿部長,你這臨危秀秘是沒有秘樂旗的喔你沒有秘樂旗喔,你趕快上到,要趕快進入狀況捏"},{"start":6571.356,"end":6591.095,"text":"很多啊,要我們助理一份給部長環境部部長他在接受專訪的時候談到上任的時候他就發一個公文要主管如果下班要發LINE給員工要寫專案加班那只要下班發LINE就算加班那我想請教勞動部會比照嗎?你認同嗎?這是環境部啦,你認同嗎?"},{"start":6598.661,"end":6619.071,"text":"確實在一些國外的情境裡面會有像類似像這樣子的規定啦你可能要想一想對我當然覺得你可以跟他不同意但是我只是問你說你要不要比照呢那如果晚上8點你想想晚上8點署管發LINE就8點半他才看到啊那個加班時間算多久啊怎麼計算"},{"start":6621.415,"end":6632.439,"text":"我為什麼這樣問呢因為你自己六月也向卓院長提到啊輪班的公務員加班的餘數並計應該並計對你還記得好所以我希望你從立委轉換到部長不要忘記過去的主張不要帶頭壓榨基層這絕對不會忘記的好下一個影片"},{"start":6643.112,"end":6643.733,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6652.484,"end":6662.15,"text":"部長警察維持秩序你的助理需要這樣咆哮嗎?你的助理咆哮的意思是不輸給你在立法院執行的氣勢"},{"start":6683.547,"end":6707.939,"text":"委員我其實有在...你有把他帶到勞動部嗎?你有把他帶到勞動部去嗎?他沒有在我目前部長室辦公室裡面沒有在...所以你帶到勞動部去啦?沒有你沒有帶到勞動部我在確定沒有你有權利但是我要問你你有沒有把他帶到勞動部去?他沒有跟著我到勞動部沒有跟著你到勞動部去好沒有不然我真擔心勞動部又跑出了謝宜榮走了一個謝宜榮跑出了謝宜榮"},{"start":6711.611,"end":6726.776,"text":"總之過去做了事講的話我們都要負責任反走過必留下痕跡希望你善待勞工善待基層好好經營你現在負責的部門謝謝部長謝謝陳委員謝謝部長接下來我們請邱振金委員質詢我們在黃秀芳委員質詢完畢休息10分鐘"},{"start":6741.311,"end":6743.673,"text":"主席好,我們有請我們的紅部長。部長好,現在還習慣嗎?"},{"start":6760.351,"end":6780.225,"text":"就像剛才委員說其實我知道我沒有蜜月期我想請問部長你11月25號上任對11月27號發的這個業務報告時程表上面就說資料在12月3號中午彙整給你所以你一直都知道12月4號以後才會排勞動這個勞動部的報告是嗎跟確認報告當然因為"},{"start":6788.154,"end":6790.388,"text":"我們很清楚知道國會的監督是無縫接軌的"},{"start":6792.938,"end":6820.867,"text":"所以當時其實我部內同仁也讓我知道說應該要盡快的來跟我做業務報告的細節那因為上週真的是我們大部分的心力跟時間都花在處理大家非常高度的法令案上面你如果是12月2號排報告的話你要員工12月3號中午給你資料就不合理那你當初在6日要主管跟你匯報的時候就不是因為我們召委排案啊"},{"start":6822.387,"end":6838.536,"text":"是想要立威結果火燒到自己嗎我完全沒有要立威的我的意思是說你明知道你明知道是4號嘛4號才到勞動部來報告可是你叫他們要這個2號你跟他們講說2號要排報告3號給你資料那個這個"},{"start":6844.864,"end":6859.405,"text":"我們原本是希望說第一個因為知道立法院會監督我的意思我知道你很想趕快把事情做好對所以你的做法不要牽扯到我們這個未還委員會的排案的這個議程嘛對不對不要把責任推到這邊來"},{"start":6860.386,"end":6879.109,"text":"對我沒有推卸所以當天禮拜四就像剛剛蘇委員有講其實禮拜四的時候我跟蘇委員確認禮拜一不會來排我到立法院以後我其實有跟蘇委員打電話有跟他致謝所以我們我們召委給你的時間是夠的嘛對不對他也沒有急著在禮拜一就排"},{"start":6880.991,"end":6905.988,"text":"我跟蘇趙緯有講說也謝謝他給我一個相對比較充裕的時間可以來做相關的準備我覺得部長你還是要注意一下就是你上行下效在樹立典範把連續上班合理化那我就用你自己在11月20號質詢勞動部的話來問你來請教你你要勞動部怎麼去做勞檢這個部分我請你們自己當然那再來"},{"start":6908.59,"end":6927.487,"text":"我想你們你今天會發生這種狀況你們的側翼你們的網軍要多溝通一下不要到處放火讓你好好做事情可以嗎因為這個事情都是他們先燒出來我們才會有這麼多人去注意這件事情"},{"start":6929.154,"end":6950.912,"text":"就是在這個過程的溝通上面我說我是謝謝書委員有給我多一點的時間來去做相關的準備的那卓榮泰院長給你的第一個任務是重新調查謝玉榮的案子吧對那卓院長說給你一周調查那在11月20號我們就要求勞動部針對謝玉榮的案子兩周內要給出新的調查報告"},{"start":6952.173,"end":6960.098,"text":"可是就在期限到昨天嘛可是你昨天給我們委員的這份報告裡面就是調查報告還沒完成無可奉告"},{"start":6962.078,"end":6988.005,"text":"如果你是還是立委的時候你覺得你這樣你可以接受嗎跟邱委員報告齁在重啟調查的方面其實我們上週我在我一上任之後其實就我們就在處理重啟這個調查小組的準備工作尤其是我們也檢討上一份報告為什麼引起社會高度的爭議所以你是那這個禮拜目前目前到甚至到現在"},{"start":6989.045,"end":7015.722,"text":"目前創意調查報告也正在訪談也增加訪談的對象那我們希望能夠把它做得更周延所以目前會在下週所以你是覺得卓院長給你時間太短了是這樣嗎我們有一直持續有跟行政院溝通所以這個時間點行政院也知道目前也同意的那北分署的事件不單只是霸凌那還有我們就業安定基金的挪用謝宜榮送禮請客的這個錢那我們政風查得怎麼樣我們政風是不是有來嗎"},{"start":7019.319,"end":7036.689,"text":"跟確認說明目前是針對經費的使用包括採購跟標案的問題現在檢調因為報告裡面都沒說啊現在這個檢調是有在已經在開始在查那我們會全力的配合"},{"start":7037.719,"end":7059.382,"text":"所以所以不是說謝宜龍手上還有黑資料要報讓你們不敢查當然不是我們沒有我們完全你的沒有什麼好我不知道謝宜龍會說什麼不能查也不能辦會不會這樣子我們全我們當然完全不會考慮現在謝宜龍分署長現在對外講的這些話我們其實就是在法治的這個報告這禮拜五可以給嗎"},{"start":7060.645,"end":7070.818,"text":"下禮拜我們會重啟調查報告應該會在下禮拜公布出來禮拜幾跟大家說明我希望盡快可是因為現在我們正在我們正在訪談中你在節目上說未完委員會就"},{"start":7077.025,"end":7105.424,"text":"聽說你之前在節目上就有提到說聽說北分署的鬼故事很多你還很委屈跟大家說你不是吃案你是因為沒有行政權只能建議去了解我只能說民進黨的不分區真的很好當也枉費你當了立法委員這部分你沒有繼續追下去真的是非常遺憾才會造成今天這樣的一個事情那麼現在你是部長了你之前說你收到很多基層跟你反應"},{"start":7107.245,"end":7130.923,"text":"這個勞發署北分署有打假卡的問題現在怎麼解決這部分分兩個部分第一個事情是確實在我們勞動部下會有一些比較是越僱人員他是適用勞基法的我們會要求絕對按照勞基法不能夠違法加班上面該怎麼記就怎麼記第二個是針對公務人員的正式公務人員的部分確實還有一個加班上限我也已經要求我們相關的主管"},{"start":7132.363,"end":7133.464,"text":"那你說勞動部高層也很多像謝宜龍這樣的問題那你都知道"},{"start":7151.072,"end":7156.356,"text":"哪些人有這種狀況?勞動部高層有很多像謝宜龍這樣的一個問題那你都知道是誰?誰有這種狀況?我之前看網路上講的嘛還是查到哪裡就可以說到哪裡?"},{"start":7170.687,"end":7198.969,"text":"我應該沒有說勞動部的高層也很多像憲勇這樣問題但是我要說的是只要有涉及到不法或涉及到問題的我們絕對都會面對問題好那再來我們陳市長代理署長說外界說陳義隆辦公室花的145萬元那其實只用了救安基金的39000元那我在這邊講的是不管用了多少救安基金是可以這樣用的嗎"},{"start":7199.926,"end":7226.978,"text":"跟邱委員報告我這邊其實也謝謝你有一個時間讓我說明目前現在當然在外界所謂說的145萬其實在144.6萬這部分的這個綠美化新創本部的這個綠美化工作確實我們經過確認以後他不包括謝永芬署長的自己的辦公室他比較主要是一些公共空間的綠美化但是我要說的是就我們查上去現在大家所謂爭議的那些軌道燈"},{"start":7228.198,"end":7252.992,"text":"這些軌道燈的確是用小額採購的方式是用勞發基金就按基金來支付的我認為這是非常非常不妥當的所以不能接受的事情這不是金額大小的問題你們都用小額採購那是不是為了規避上網招標的這個金額然後這樣比較好給你們的可以比較容易照顧到你們自己的人"},{"start":7254.092,"end":7262.438,"text":"謝芬署長他在他辦公室裡面裝了軌道燈為了去照他的職務這件事情我是很不能接受的"},{"start":7263.686,"end":7290.422,"text":"用小額採購不管是三萬塊還是三十萬目前查起來大概三萬九千塊看起來金額好像不大但也用到了救安基金的錢這也是我們不能接受的所以我希望部長你既然你今天在這邊這樣講希望你能夠把這件事情做一個很好的一個處理當然該送檢調該送政風你都不要手辣檢調現在已經在相關的查查了我們絕對全力配合"},{"start":7290.962,"end":7295.827,"text":"那我在想就是就案基金餘額大概429億那勞動部辦過這個演唱會花了356萬裝修會議室2250萬修外牆2699萬買咖啡豆22.8萬清垃圾308萬蓋警衛室758萬都可以這樣用嗎?"},{"start":7313.919,"end":7336.709,"text":"跟委員說明我其實上週其實就要求專案基金致用的檢討了我們確實發現裡面有部分的項目是不合宜的會讓社會觀感不好的但是也並不是所有現在媒體上面列出來所有的項目都是有問題我想也讓我也知道但是確實裡面是有部分的項目"},{"start":7337.549,"end":7349.957,"text":"我們是非常不合理的你現在開始查了嗎開始查從哪裡開始查從許民村部長還是在之前我們沒有分從什麼地方只要有問題我們就查那什麼時候會有結果"},{"start":7354.862,"end":7373.732,"text":"現在我們的做法會是當然個案如果不合一的項目我們希望能夠做個案的停損就機制面我們必須把機制面給強化所以現在也邀集一些這方面的專家的外部專家的委員我們要把機制如果還有疏漏的地方這個把關機制有疏漏的地方要補上"},{"start":7374.973,"end":7400.47,"text":"因為我們現在正在做這件事情 大家都覺得是金庫其他部會都想要挖來挖你們這邊的錢當初林佳龍部長當交通部長的時候他就有提到就業安基金要撥3億來提升旅行業者的數位能力那你們現在只要 我知道你們現在要找第三方外部的專家來檢討強化就業安定基金的用途"},{"start":7405.174,"end":7414.91,"text":"我覺得在霸凌這個霸凌案的時候用利益良善來形容謝宜龍你現在要找的第三方會不會變成到時候說變成利益良善圖利共犯"},{"start":7418.222,"end":7442.661,"text":"外部專家當然都會有他的專業所謂的外部是在編制以外嘛對不對對那但是還是你們的人啊對不對我希望部長你這個部分啊你一定要客觀一點把這事情做好希望能夠避免這樣的事情發生可以嗎因為你只要客觀還要專業就會碰到局系的人那賴清德有給你總統有給你上房保鮮嗎"},{"start":7445.493,"end":7464.225,"text":"有嗎我想從行政院當時邀請我到我知道現在社會大眾對我上任的期待都是要改革這段時間包括有很多基層的員工反映給我們的資訊也是希望我改革所以改革是不可能不走的路"},{"start":7465.612,"end":7484.89,"text":"這跟誰交代我沒有關係因為時間的問題我最後再問你就是說你在2023年10月1號就說你會支持消防員組工會也會支持有罷工權那現在你是勞動部長你什麼時候要修法剛剛其實有跟其他委員報告過其實關於這個公務員組工會的議題"},{"start":7489.144,"end":7494.89,"text":"的確現在主要的法規權者看法規權者看起來是在勞權團體也恢復齊天的價那當時你也說你會轉達我想這些問題都是你之前講過的話我希望"},{"start":7504.64,"end":7532.394,"text":"你能夠記得你之前講過的話然後好好的來處理我剛剛講說要時間你是已經講說要時間但我不認為兩個月三個月但是我希望你盡快至少也不能拖到半年因為你是部長你有權力我覺得你應該要好好的把你說過的話把它落實確實我現在是勞動部長所以關於公務員組公會的議題裡面比方說比較沒有爭議的"},{"start":7534.144,"end":7554.416,"text":"接受權跟協商權這部分這比較沒有爭議的部分比較共識的部分但我們怎麼全力來跟考試院一起來協助來給大家保障但就像我在這份在這個在這個訪問裡面其實就講到確實現在罷工權的部分社會上面是比較高度爭議的"},{"start":7556.23,"end":7575.647,"text":"那我希望你部長你趕快把這事情釐清該處理的問題當然要探討的問題會發生的狀況也會有很多希望你把它想清楚把它做好來不要到時候倉促的我也不希望你們倉促推這種法案出來但我希望你們做得完善一點好不好謝謝好謝謝邱委員謝謝部長那接續我們請廖偉祥委員"},{"start":7591.257,"end":7592.486,"text":"謝主席：有請洪部長"},{"start":7595.796,"end":7625.076,"text":"部長這個去年啊救安基金其實爆出爭議的用3000萬補助高雄市政府辦理活動那我也查到當然後來這是被擋下來了依照會議記錄在前年底的11月23號他有召開一個臨時會議在會中有委員用臨時動議的提案方式就讓這個案子過了那隔年3月1日呢第105次的救安基金的管理會議才又由這個就業平等司提案"},{"start":7626.296,"end":7642.547,"text":"說要在這個救援基金中提升這個勞工勞工福祉內去調整內容那所需經費4000萬那如果不足的話再以這個決算的方式辦理那部長這個是不是就是先上車後補票先射箭後花吧"},{"start":7645.077,"end":7672.749,"text":"就我們目前業務單位回報說這個25淑女的事件當時的這個案子後來高雄市政府已經主動撤回了對主動撤回嘛但是這個是不是在整個流程整個程序上非常有爭議你認為這個是不是有爭議的事情我已經找出兩次的會議紀錄就舊安基金的把關機制其實我們現在已經開始檢討了部長我想請問一下我也認為這裡面是有一些機制需要強化的狀況把關機不管是事前或事後"},{"start":7673.089,"end":7687.094,"text":"是部長那我想請問一下那個在這個運用辦法裡面你知道救安基金有哪一些用途嗎?這個移工相關的管理的需求然後提升促進國民就業提升勞動福祉"},{"start":7688.953,"end":7703.602,"text":"好,它總共有12條,它總共有12條。在舊府法裡面是3個。對,但是在這個辦法裡面,113年的3月11號的修正日期的這個辦法裡面,就案基金的收支保管及運用辦法它總共有12條。是。"},{"start":7704.562,"end":7733.121,"text":"第一個辦理加強實施職業訓練阿等等的總共12條第12條的部分呢就是其他有關支出我想請問其他有關支出的內涵是什麼可以辦演唱會嗎可以買咖啡嗎還是第二可以嗎跟委員報告這個部分所謂的相關一定是跟前面11款有相關的是很好這個大法官是這樣解釋沒有錯所以可以嗎我剛問這些這些不合理的用法你認為可以嗎部長"},{"start":7735.989,"end":7758.988,"text":"我們在檢視下來確實覺得有部分的項目是不合理的應該是非常不合理吧當然完全是在這個法之外了吧所以我其實已經要求已經我們已經要求這部分的檢討了所以剛剛這個講得很好其實12款其實這12條應該分兩個層次嘛第一個是不是符合就業安定目的第二個如果符合的情況之下他的手段跟方法是不是適當"},{"start":7760.39,"end":7786.77,"text":"那其他有關之處其實過去大法官有解釋大法官有解釋嘛就是認為其他用途並不是空白支票必須跟前面11項有這個各款相當這是大法官的見解沒錯嘛對那但是現在看起來這個救安基金就變成所謂勞動部的小金庫甚至是民進黨派系的小金庫我想問一下部長有幾個訴求您可以承諾在3個月內徹查這5年內救安基金的使用用途嗎"},{"start":7787.779,"end":7795.137,"text":"我們會來徹查然後可不可以公所以您可以三個月內可以公開就是徹查之後然後公開每一筆支出明細嗎"},{"start":7797.645,"end":7825.522,"text":"呃先讓委員知道其實現在救安基金的使用的狀況目前檢調也在查好那第二個那我們會全力配合所以追究相關人士的責任該送證封送證封該送檢調該送法辦的絕不寬帶您會因為到底對於他有沒有違法的問題這恐怕不是勞動部可以自己說的算的這部分確實檢調在查所以沒錯啊我的訴求也很明確當然跟你沒有關係如果有明確我只是說你的態度是不是可以做到這麼公正無私啊該做的"},{"start":7825.982,"end":7847.387,"text":"就該做不可以寬戴再來就是修法強化救援機制的監督機制避免再被濫用你剛剛有說要檢討那這個部分大概什麼時候你有第三點剛剛其實前面有委員問其實救援基金的監督官機制的強化我們希望在一個月內可以有相關提出相關的這個方案出來"},{"start":7848.647,"end":7877.617,"text":"是不是可以向全國勞工道歉並提出這個道歉的部分然後具體方案你說一個月內嘛但是我覺得勞動部是不是應該道歉這個就業安定基金已完全的破壞了國人對於國家的信任前幾天才接到有人說他的母親因為因為有身體的需求他去聘僱了外勞那他每個月繳2000塊就業安定基金原來是這樣被政府濫用的所以身為剛上任的部長是不是應該也概括承受向全國勞工朋友道歉"},{"start":7880.752,"end":7907.102,"text":"我現在是勞動部部長我當然該負的責任我當然必須擔起該負的責任那剛剛委員說到說要送政風也好送檢調也好只要有具體的事證再釐清有具體的事證我們絕對不會護短好 但是我希望你應該要代表我們現在的政府真的向全國的勞工朋友和這些雇主們道歉因為這個已經嚴重破壞國家的信任對人民的信任"},{"start":7908.465,"end":7928.918,"text":"這部分部長你怎麼看?我上任以後的工作勞動部現在當然是在一個很艱困內外很艱困的時刻我的工作就是第一個要把內部安頓好然後能夠重新取得社會大眾對勞動部的信任一級就是說你不願意道歉但是你說你要用行動去證明是不是?"},{"start":7930.098,"end":7958.011,"text":"這是我的工作所以你不願意為現在過去勞動部造成的這些問題而向國人道歉我的工作是面對問題跟解決問題好 部長何沛山這個前部長下台前曾經與立法院兩週內綱全案重新調查提出一個新的報告那現在還沒有出爐請問什麼時候可以給國人一個滿意的答案目前重新調查重啟調查的報告會在下週公開跟大家說明下週幾我也希望盡快"},{"start":7959.252,"end":7984.172,"text":"但確實因為我們現在正在增加一些約訪的對象所以你可能說下週五以前給是不是下週五我當然希望更儘快更早一點所以最晚是下週五以前對一定是就是在下週那現在新的調查報告有誰擔任召集人有我自己好我會負最對召集人現在就是我部長在這個多事之秋你臨危受命那"},{"start":7985.41,"end":8001.479,"text":"包含剛提到不管是霸凌或是不當挪用經費啊要查水落石出那你也說很積極的要加速瞭解業務所以召集了部會人員週末向你業務簡報希望你可以更快的融入這個角色那這個內部事項你也交代過應該低調處理卻被"},{"start":8004.025,"end":8027.094,"text":"公務人員對於媒體披露出來讓大眾知道那也引來了這個經過過勞造成人員輕生處理方式居然還是繼續加班研究解決方案那這些被人家指責是要滑天下之大機我想問部長對這個出發點是想要加快瞭解業務那利益良善也不為過但是卻因為遭到批評你覺得部長你覺得會委屈嗎"},{"start":8029.774,"end":8057.97,"text":"其實在確實當時同仁們在我們在排這個報告的會議的時候當時是因為我在週間幾乎已經都排不出時間了所以當時其實才不得不排到週末但後來就是跟當時跟蘇昭偉蘇興泉昭偉其實有確認也跟他溝通也謝謝他在我們來未還報告的時間確認是禮拜三以後我們也多一點的時間所以後來我就把"},{"start":8058.85,"end":8086.494,"text":"這個在週末的會議給取消所以聽起來是覺得有點委屈但是後來也解決了沒有我其實是我也謝謝蘇英璇召委的體諒這部分我想當時我打電話跟蘇召委其實也表達這個事情那後來其實有幾位基層同仁來提醒確實大家在這一從11月初到現在因為這個霸凌北分署的事件其實大家的家長我只想你是不是宣示一下未來是不是都能夠合理分配工作不要"},{"start":8087.094,"end":8097.503,"text":"不要再讓過勞的事情不要隨意加班這樣子我們當然希望能夠在工作的排程上面來去檢討避免不必要的加班好那關於謝怡龍分署長據媒體報導你也承認說你二月的時候也就是悲劇發生的八個月前你就知道這個事情存在"},{"start":8109.588,"end":8125.997,"text":"那謝分署長的土皇帝的作為也略有所聞那時候你身為監督行政機關的立法委員為什麼沒有積極負起相關的責任你難道不知道也有可能是因為你沒有積極處理才導致這個悲劇發生你覺得你是不是也要負起一些責任"},{"start":8127.435,"end":8144.845,"text":"跟委員說明其實這是並不是二月啦其實這是在去年所以更早之前其實是在去年去年其實當時我還在衛環委員會裡面那我們有對於謝分署長的作風有聽聞但並不是針對無姓公務員的事件"},{"start":8145.825,"end":8163.728,"text":"當時我也不認識吳興公務員是謝分署長在他的分署內相關的作風我沒有聽聞可是因為其實並不是有具體的陳情人來跟我陳情那我手上也並沒有具體的證據所以在我當時聽聞的狀況下面當然先跟勞動部做反應跟提醒"},{"start":8164.795,"end":8190.56,"text":"所以這件事情就是有兩件事要做嘛對不對部長你就是要積極追查另外一個應該要請相關的單位要認真處理對嗎這是一定的對不對但是又有媒體人爆料說打去政風處關心此案卻回嗆說你可能沒有當過公務人員所以你並不了解我們部門執掌的狀況那這個意思就很明顯嘛就是說啊你不懂啊你不要管啊以及這不是我們單位的事情我們政風不管很合理"},{"start":8191.96,"end":8211.03,"text":"請問部長這個霸凌到底屬不屬於政風該管的事還是因為也沒有人真正可以管所以就從政府不管所以整個勞動部就可以從根爛起開始挪用各種公款買禮物裝修違法亂計請問一下如果政風單位的心態是如此的話那這個事情要怎麼樣好好調查"},{"start":8212.113,"end":8233.205,"text":"要怎麼樣要怎麼樣好好的整頓部長相關的霸凌案或者是這些不法侵害的案件當然我們會請政風參與政風當然會參與那我覺得相關在這個在溝通的過程裡面也許有一些語氣大家有一些彼此理解上面我覺得可以做的更好的地方當然我們會來要求對"},{"start":8235.404,"end":8252.348,"text":"部長 如果你去詢問這些單位啊不管是這些人事室啊 政風室啊他可能表面上也不敢這樣跟你講啦就是剛剛那種態度但內心中他是不是會這樣想你會不會覺得紅立委轉成部長他會不會覺得說你一樣沒幹過公務員什麼都不懂你覺得有沒有可能呢"},{"start":8253.715,"end":8280.853,"text":"我想我到現在在做勞動部這個新的工作其實我很簡單在這個當下勞動部很艱困的當下其實我們就是全力以赴那我很希望的事情就是為其實跟部內的同仁說我們現在就是要重新的凝聚才能夠讓社會信任那我們會一步一步來做部長所以我其實想要問的就是說你覺得你現在上任部長你的新位子你覺得要磨合多久時間"},{"start":8282.85,"end":8303.19,"text":"其實我想立法院不會給我蜜月期啊所以你覺得你立刻就可以非常的上手對嗎我不敢講說叫做非常上手但是就我來說的話我當然要盡量的減短這中間我熟悉包括熟悉業務的過程因為外界包括現在大家對於霸凌案的高度的關切其實"},{"start":8304.031,"end":8328.73,"text":"不會給我太多的時間這我非常清楚的是啊部長我也是正面的期許雖然質詢台的左右兩邊兌換只有7步的距離可是事實上你接下來要面臨的是很多很多的挑戰包含你過去講過的話不只是現在的短期內處理霸凌案長期怎麼改善整個的整個的這個文化甚至是這些就業安定基金甚至未來移工問題那個年金問題"},{"start":8332.112,"end":8344.985,"text":"這都是你接下來要面對的喔好那我想要請問一下其實你剛剛本來有報告裡面好像有說到其實國際上沒有其他的國家有相關的這個霸凌的法規"},{"start":8346.823,"end":8372.141,"text":"是嗎應該是說目前我們看到一些國家他比較是針對職權霸凌他比較是針對職權霸凌就是比較是上對下的部分那就我得到訊息但我們可以再做確認就是針對專法的部分事實上是不是可以參考韓國的職場反霸凌法他們在2019年的時候好像有通過這個職場霸凌禁止法或者職場內禁止欺凌法那裡面有說過"},{"start":8373.862,"end":8388.849,"text":"職場中禁止利用地位或關係優勢給其他勞工帶來身體或精神上的痛苦違法的行為人可能有刑責、刑法或行政法的責任具體來說具體是被認為職場霸凌的行為有威脅、暴行、惡言"},{"start":8391.01,"end":8391.71,"text":"請同仁在國際上面的案例"},{"start":8408.976,"end":8425.523,"text":"國內可能會有一些法院相關的判例進行進一步的修正因為這會是現在法令防治法制法裡面的關鍵會是在這個地方所以我請同仁去做一輪的修正那我目前看到確實國際上面會有比較多他是針對職權罷就上對下的部分但是"},{"start":8426.323,"end":8431.286,"text":"所以部長你認為大概有多少時間可以給一個報告或是修法立法的方向"},{"start":8449.756,"end":8462.587,"text":"立法的方向我們當然現在我們現在是很密切的在辦理中啦齁那我我真的是希望盡快啦就是因為但是因為這個法案的內容包括他的路徑到底是要修職職安法還是專章還是專法"},{"start":8465.689,"end":8489.364,"text":"這裏面不同的路徑其實我們也請這個相關的學者專家正在那我想一下因為通常做事你總是要有一個期程那你自己心裏面你預計你比較希望你多久時間內因為你剛好說一直不斷的研議再研議那到底要研議多久很會研議那研議到什麼時候會給大家一個比較好的改革方向包含你的救安基金也是一樣因為目前聽起來沒有時程就會是空話"},{"start":8490.705,"end":8518.331,"text":"我自己希望是在如果要在下個會期至少在修法的規劃上有一個比較清楚的路徑下個會期那救安基金的部分呢救安基金的部分我想剛剛說關於把關的機制的強化的這個方案剛才跟有跟文說大概一個月內我們希望一個月內就會有方案好那我們期待到時候真的可以出來一個讓人家滿意的機制改革"},{"start":8519.076,"end":8542.712,"text":"那之前部長你也曾經在臉書發言 砲轟交通部開放客運有條件的開放這個上期休一甚至有機會連上十天 當初你是這麼說這個只要再有一個連開七天以上疲勞駕駛而出人命的案子交通部應該就會被燒了吧但是你在這篇貼文後阿羅哈客運發生了疲勞駕駛三死十三傷"},{"start":8544.274,"end":8571.315,"text":"運安會也將發布多起物流業的疲勞駕駛車會的報告甚至昨天北市公車長期疲勞駕駛追撞4台機車那這樣子照您的說法交通部這樣惡搞勞基法是不是至少要被火燒好幾回那前部長許明春也表示說不排除廢止這個放寬許可那對於對此這個部長你會主張直接廢止嗎"},{"start":8572.555,"end":8580.349,"text":"嗯?廢紙哪一個部分?就是不排除這個之前許明春有表示過不排除廢紙放寬許可就是剛剛前面講的這個目前"},{"start":8584.595,"end":8604.717,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話客運的只有允許他在那個輸運的期間因為包括春節期間輸運期間可以有一些例外的一些放寬氣修憶的部分但是都也只在限於輸運期間所以我意思是說這個這就是這樣說部長你的發文嗎就是也是針對這件事嗎那你覺得這個事情你要"},{"start":8605.538,"end":8605.558,"text":"當然謝謝"},{"start":8634.95,"end":8642.373,"text":"好 謝謝令委員 謝謝部長那接下來我們請黃秀芳委員質詢 召委喔 遵守時間喔 不是威脅我的點 謝謝主席 我們請部長"},{"start":8660.853,"end":8686.465,"text":"謝謝黃委員部長部長確實是辛苦了啦在短短幾天內然後這個從委員然後變成部長從一個質詢部長的一個角色轉換變成被質詢者那我想請教就是說部長你在11月25號上任之後到現在那你也有到北分署去關心過嗎"},{"start":8687.725,"end":8695.792,"text":"那我想請教就是說其實可以感受到目前勞動部除了部長底下還一位次長那"},{"start":8698.186,"end":8698.206,"text":"謝謝黃委員"},{"start":8724.631,"end":8751.751,"text":"其實確實現在勞動部目前三位次長裡面目前只有一位長次兩位正式是全缺所以我們現在也一直在跟行政院在討論相關適合的人選那也希望這個人選確定以後就趕快能夠就任因為我也很需要我們把我們這個主管的陣容給補齊因為我們的業務真的非常的龐雜那現在面對到的挑戰也非常大是變成說大家要找人然後發現好像勞動部現在"},{"start":8753.152,"end":8776.078,"text":"找不到人而且我覺得勞動部的這個業務真的非常的繁雜你掌管這個一千多萬勞工部長是大家長所以我想請教就是說在這個一個這將近這個一個月當中從北分署然後勞動部發生的這些事情那到最近我們看到台灣在"},{"start":8776.638,"end":8776.838,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":8796.787,"end":8818.358,"text":"要讓大家有一個期許要怎麼樣讓這個所有的這個工作同仁的士氣提升另外我們該修的法該補強的我們要去補強所以我現在想請教就是說部長你在上禮拜大家很關心就是說你為了想要趕快儘早融入這個勞動部"},{"start":8819.639,"end":8820.76,"text":"未來要怎麼去避免這樣的事情"},{"start":8836.394,"end":8857.333,"text":"那另外就是說其實勞動部現在有很多業務尤其是現在是預算的會期那有很多可能這個工作或者是垂尋的部分很多都是來自立法院那你要怎麼樣讓我們的這個工作同仁不要在晚上然後收到你的指令或者是收到你的Line"},{"start":8858.454,"end":8860.455,"text":"我自己非常清楚現在外界包括立法院會對我們高度的檢視"},{"start":8881.755,"end":8898.681,"text":"那甚至因為這幾個爭議的案件大家會對我們怎麼處置會有一些時程上面的期待這我非常非常清楚但同時我們確實也有另外一端是要把勞動部裡面的工作的文化弄得更健康所以在這兩個"},{"start":8900.782,"end":8923.811,"text":"在這兩個目的上面確實我們現在去取得想辦法去取得平衡所以至少我希望至少在我們在工作排程上面要去怎麼做一些檢討讓這個我們勞動部員工這個不必要的加班能夠盡量的來減少這事情是也是我們當然現在需要的工作那週末當時週末的這個會議的問題其實後來勞動部的基層也有來"},{"start":8928.92,"end":8939.797,"text":"來提醒我很謝謝勞動部的基層願意來提醒我提醒我說確實大家正在這個一個多月一個一個月左右的時間因為15%的這個事件所以大家其實真的"},{"start":8940.831,"end":8941.751,"text":"我希望說勞動部是我們所有勞工的榜樣"},{"start":8966.75,"end":8989.321,"text":"盡量不要在晚上傳LINE說要交辦工作因為現在真的是晚上或者是假日隨時可能都會收到老闆的LINE或者是交辦的工作那我們希望說勞動部你應該要以身作則來處理這件事情另外我想請教就是說有關北分署的這個"},{"start":8990.901,"end":9009.077,"text":"這件事那當然就是說一開始可能在2月份可能次長王次長有處理有約談那後來大家會覺得說怎麼石沉大海不了了之那像這樣子你上來之後有沒有針對這個職場霸凌的這個部分有一個比較正常的一個管道"},{"start":9011.425,"end":9027.233,"text":"好跟黃委員說明確實現在在我已上任之後因為我知道這是一個非常時期很多事情進行的很急所以我先提供我個人的電話跟email但這不是一個我認為這不是一個長久之計這不是長久之計"},{"start":9030.194,"end":9053.369,"text":"那我們當然現在在署裡面過去既有的就是關於這個我們衛生與安全的防護要點跟小組的工作但我們現在在檢視後也發現其實恐怕是需要針對職場霸凌另外拉出來做一個專責的處理所以這部分我們都在進行中所以上個禮拜其實我就有交代我們的法治單位趕快針對我們這個專責化的職場霸凌的機制趕快來去做規劃"},{"start":9059.333,"end":9077.561,"text":"來去做規劃包括這個趕快讓他上路就不用再猶豫了是好那我們目前就是只有這個職業安全衛生法其中的這個比較模糊然後就是職場霸凌可能就是這個定義可能也是非常的模糊對模糊所以我們也希望就是說未來"},{"start":9079.182,"end":9100.887,"text":"是不是要更明確或者是重新來審視這些條文然後來做一個檢討或是做一些研議我們希望說透過今天的這件事情那未來不要再發生那也要有一個很暢通的一個申訴的管道而不是這個勞工申訴之後或者是你們的員工申訴完之後結果"},{"start":9103.588,"end":9114.438,"text":"主管反而跟這個北分署的分署長講然後就又把這個陳情人又叫去我覺得未來不可以有再有類似的這樣的一個情形發生"},{"start":9116.409,"end":9132.128,"text":"現在確實在這個安全與衛生防護小組裡面其實相關的程序面不夠明確所以未來在處理相關事情的程序上必須明文化那也包括其實他的保密的狀況其實應該也要有所規範"},{"start":9133.289,"end":9159.929,"text":"那尤其是處理申訴處理的成員我們也希望要讓他專業要有更多專業那這些相關的案件進去以後其實後續有一個監督追蹤的機制避免不會吃案這些事情都是我們來去調整這個至少是勞動部內部的處理機制我們幾個重要的方向跟要點但更大的部分確實涉及到一般職場的部分那就涉及到可能接下來的法制化的修法的工作這樣子"},{"start":9160.649,"end":9189.444,"text":"其實不只只有勞動部所有的公務人員其他的所有的這個公務體系應該也存在類似這樣的一個狀況所以我覺得應該也是要一併一併去檢討當然勞動部你就是處理勞動部的事情那未來可能就是考試院或者是這個其他的這個行政單位要來去處理的那如果說針對一般勞工的話針對一般勞工的話我覺得要趕快把這個機制趕快把它建立起來"},{"start":9190.345,"end":9209.18,"text":"剛剛黃委員講到說關於公務員的部分確實現在他的主要的權責是在考試院但是我們勞動部部分我們很願意跟考試院一起來討論甚至提供我們在這上面比較專業的意見這部分我們很願意來參與那勞工的部分這個部分應該要趕快再把它健全起來"},{"start":9209.64,"end":9229.316,"text":"這事情就是我一般勞工跟一般職場部分這就是在我們全球之下我們絕對我們不會迴避的對好那確實是辛苦了短短幾天那我我們也對你的期待也非常的高希望能夠趕快讓我們這個勞動部趕快進入正常的這個軌道好不好好謝謝黃委員好謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝部長我們現在休息10分鐘"},{"start":9855.882,"end":9866.805,"text":"好我們現在繼續開會那跟大家報告我們等一下蘇清泉委員執行完畢後就處理臨時提案好我們現在請圖謙熙委員執行好謝謝主席那謝謝請我們部長謝謝圖委員"},{"start":9882.435,"end":9901.173,"text":"好部長你好那個11月25號正式接下部長這一職嘛那好像11月26號你第一個行程就是去拜訪我們的北分署對不對是那去北分署以後那當然也甚至好像在媒體也有看到也去開箱視察了我們"},{"start":9902.034,"end":9921.579,"text":"前分署長謝宜榮的辦公室那進去看以後是不是也確定他這個小小的辦公室也花了144.6萬元是不是確實有這件事情跟突然說明其實我有查現在當然在媒體上面講到新莊本部的那個所謂144.6萬這一個綠美化的標案它的範疇其實並不包括"},{"start":9928.443,"end":9953.312,"text":"謝勇分署長的辦公室他主要是針對外面的一些公共空間但是我要強調說我確實去看了謝勇的謝勇前分署長的辦公室我進去看以後確實我覺得有很多部分是很過當的那尤其現在大家關注到比方說裝的這個軌道燈這很多盞的軌道燈那這個軌道燈當然他看起來在辦公室裡面他就是專門去照他那些"},{"start":9956.149,"end":9983.606,"text":"那我也查過了的確這些軌道燈他是用小額採購的方式是用救安基金支付所以不管他金額大或小這部分都是非常非常不妥當當然啦我懂部長講的意思啦那確實他這個辦公室是確實花了一百多萬我不是這個意思那當然有些是什麼需要用到的什麼會議室啊什麼等等並不是所有這一百多萬全部用他的辦公室"},{"start":9986.707,"end":10006.895,"text":"我們可以來討論責任的問題,但是在事實面上面,目前這一百多萬主要是針對外面的公共空間。謝永芬署長他自己在內部的狀況,包括我們已經查過他的這些職務的購買,目前是他自己用他的錢購買的。"},{"start":10009.022,"end":10009.202,"text":"那當然齁"},{"start":10036.031,"end":10056.304,"text":"上任之後去除了看過我們前前分署長辦公室那現在部長針對自己這個辦公室我們當時我們林淑芬委員有講我們部長辦公室當初許明春我們前部長說他裡面有廚房有流理台然後可以開火那是不是真的有這樣子的事情"},{"start":10057.793,"end":10075.892,"text":"我其實也是上禮拜一第一次看到大家所謂說的那個空間然後我其實看了以後大概他其實是我覺得他比較像是一個茶水間那那個茶水間的使用並不是我可以使用其實是部長室裡面大概"},{"start":10077.213,"end":10094.152,"text":"就是我幾乎所有部長室裡面的工作人員都可以使用的空間並不是專屬因為我確實我自己有一間我自己有一間可是這個所謂的茶水間並不是在我自己的那個空間裡面但是就是整體部長的辦公室裡面當然你的意思說其他同仁也可以使用當然"},{"start":10094.913,"end":10114.974,"text":"所以確定就是因素分委員講的沒有錯確實這整個部長辦公室裡面確實是有個小廚房有流離台可以煮水啊什麼之類的嗎其實他他他比較真的像是一個茶水他也沒有瓦斯爐就是其實沒有你想像的那個所謂廚房裡面"},{"start":10116.482,"end":10130.043,"text":"就廚房大概都會有瓦斯爐嘛對不對所以原則上聯儲分委員講的是沒有錯啦就是有一個 確實有理台之類的然後茶水間之類的那你說有一個可以洗碗的地方茶水間嗎"},{"start":10131.69,"end":10157.291,"text":"那可不可以煮東西可不可以開火就是它沒有瓦斯爐但是它有一個我去看的時候像電磁爐什麼之類的有一個微波爐微波爐對但是並不是大家所謂的廚房啦因為廚房真的都要你說都要有像瓦斯爐抽油煙機這種東西是大家可能想像的廚房所以所以部長你講但是重點就是有像茶水煎之類的這個是這是有的設備嘛這是有的"},{"start":10157.811,"end":10170.68,"text":"那可是因為那時候我們針對這個事情我們也想了解說欸林淑芬委員講的到底是不是真的那我們也有向勞動部所知針對松江路至青大樓12樓針對我們看這個圖資可是裡面圖資上面並沒有這些構造還是說給那個圖資是不正確的"},{"start":10182.95,"end":10206.449,"text":"因為我們有索取到圖資圖資裡面並沒有說你講的什麼茶水間什麼之類這個圖資還是那個資料是錯的還是我們許部長是後面自己又再發包才去做的東西報告委員我們給委員的資料裡面確實是有茶水間我們有把這個圖都有畫出來提供給委員這樣子"},{"start":10207.458,"end":10230.411,"text":"所以你講的茶水間就在這上面所以並不是林淑芬委員講的什麼廚房開火之類這樣子的東西對 圖紙上面的茶水間就是剛剛部長講的就是很簡單的那個所以今天講的重點就是說你們說林淑芬委員講的其實大家有點超過想像是不是第一個是我們其實"},{"start":10232.831,"end":10260.829,"text":"林委員當然講的到底是前後到底是什麼什麼時候其實我我坦白說我不是那麼親但是我只能就說就就實際的狀況面來讓大家知道我也是禮拜一的時候去然後看到其實是看到就是一個大概是一個茶水間那裡面有微波爐有有水槽那裡面有但你你如果需要裝水的話你可以有飲飲水機部長我覺得針對這一部分當然林署分委員講的"},{"start":10261.95,"end":10276.666,"text":"好那針對說你的你的釐清部分是說是茶水間啊但是其實我們從媒體上我們聽到的他是說有廚房有流體台而且可以開火甚至甚至可以在裡面暢飲"},{"start":10278.407,"end":10304.084,"text":"我相信這個媒體上面有這樣講那我是說針對這一部分為什麼這個事情發生了10天了也沒有聽我們勞動部針對這一部分做出一些事實的澄清你們像一些勞動部有一些年金的什麼短語音你們說那是假訊息你說馬上大張旗鼓又做突變又澄清為什麼這個事情你們到現在都沒有講清楚而且"},{"start":10304.744,"end":10323.417,"text":"我們所了解的 林子芬委員講的他是說有流理台有廚房可以開火甚至可以暢演也許大家對於那個空間的這個看法會不一樣但是我說就是這個所謂的空間有什麼東西我覺得我們沒有什麼好遮掩的啦"},{"start":10323.677,"end":10346.103,"text":"但是我就說就像他裡面真的沒有什麼抽油煙機啊沒有瓦斯爐啊都沒有這些事情那我覺得因為如果照這樣我覺得勞動部你也要適時的澄清當然因為我們現在很好奇啊當初林副總委員講的這樣那我想說欸我們洪部長進去以後不知道你進去以後使用的感覺怎麼樣我就裝水進去而已所以"},{"start":10348.544,"end":10372.842,"text":"一直以來我們都沒有聽到勞動部針對這一部分來事實的來說明我們認為就是廚房啊可以開火啊可以吃飯啊甚至可以唱演啊上面的感覺就是這樣啊那你們從頭到尾也沒有針對這一部分做出任何的澄清啊我使用到的部分只有進去裝水所以我本來一直想說問部長齁到底使用以後的感覺怎麼樣啊就是水很乾淨"},{"start":10374.614,"end":10403.761,"text":"所以我覺得有受事實的澄清我相信當時大家看到林淑芬委員講的這個新聞之後我相信大家的想法跟部長的說法應該是有所出入我覺得如果有事實的澄清的必要還是要說明那我想請我們勞動條件跟就業平等司還有勞動關係司的司長我想針對我們辦理音樂會的部分來瞭解一下"},{"start":10410.345,"end":10425.595,"text":"我們過去幾年勞動部夜館的幾個法律大部分我們所知道其實都是用研討會的方式都是邀請專家學者、工會代表甚至婦女團體來討論這些落實法律上的問題對不對"},{"start":10428.855,"end":10453.845,"text":"報告以往大概都是用學術研討會的形式來去做這個幾週年的這個形式對啊所以因為我們看歷史資料幾乎都是這樣那為什麼針對性平工作平等法20週年他是違反慣例不是辦研討會而是挪用救安基金來舉辦這個音樂會這部分黃市長你有沒有什麼說法"},{"start":10454.885,"end":10469.414,"text":"報告委員 那我們在當年的20週年的時候其實在上半年已經辦了兩場的這個學術研討會那一年其實是疫情那學術研討會在辦理的時候他是做一些學理上面的探討"},{"start":10470.194,"end":10488.152,"text":"那交流的部分的話都是大概學者專家還有一些同學和各界那它的人數其實是有限的那我們有發現一件事情是說這幾年其實要求我們對性別平等工作法多做宣達而那當年的話在111年其實我們性別平等工作法有很多"},{"start":10489.232,"end":10503.162,"text":"所以你講的意思說其實之前都是辦研討會然後你們也都辦過研討會但是針對這20週年確實也辦了一場演唱會嘛這一場的話是我們希望說透過一些多元的宣導所以他希望說拍出一個片子"},{"start":10503.769,"end":10532.501,"text":"拍出妻子的片子以及有一場的一個直播但是他拍攝的內容形式是用音樂會的方式這樣可以讓更多的勞工朋友和很多的婦女團體他們可以用這樣的方式來參與其實針對因為今天早上我也聽了很多委員的質詢答詢那針對我們這個音樂會的部分你看像王一鳴委員那時候有問針對這引帶的部分說要做妻子做妻子引帶"},{"start":10533.661,"end":10558.316,"text":"然後說這個費用花了兩百多萬那針對這部分其實現在大家所質疑就是說這個音樂會裡面用救安基金的錢很多的地方其實大家都認為這個項目這樣子使用這個預算是不對的那我們現在重點想了解黃市長這個活動是你自己想要辦還是誰提出要辦的"},{"start":10559.82,"end":10577.786,"text":"這個活動其實我們有做過評估那其實在在過往的時候大概都有很多委員外界有一些指教是說我們的性別平等工作法可以用更多的多元的方式老師長我問說這是你自己想到要去辦的還是之前我們前部長覺得要辦這個活動的"},{"start":10578.826,"end":10600.246,"text":"在我們這個相關的這個辦理的過程中其實我提到上半年我們辦了兩場的學術研討會所以是師長你自己覺得要辦的是嗎辦了這個學術研討會之後後續的話我們再參加的這兩場學術研討會許前部長不是啊我師長我說這是你自己想到要辦的還是我們前部長許部長"},{"start":10601.868,"end":10621.529,"text":"在這個相關後面的我們得到訊息是說有很多的我們包括像中南部的朋友是對於或基層的勞工朋友他們對於這樣的性別平等工作法我們當年有很多的新的一件所以是誰決定要辦這個演算會是沒有辦法說讓這些人都有機會接觸到的"},{"start":10621.829,"end":10630.893,"text":"那有這樣的一個訊息進來,我們就來研究說到底可不可以用什麼方式來做的?我們有來做一些共同的開會的討論,所以我們用什麼樣的方式可以來做更接近民意的...不是"},{"start":10642.978,"end":10649.043,"text":"那是你自己召集的?不是啦,就是誰召集就這麼簡單的問題所以是司長你自己召集決定要辦的嗎?所以是司長召集的嗎?這邊是指誰啊?"},{"start":10664.199,"end":10668.161,"text":"所以許前部長也知道他也同意要辦這個活動嗎?他也同意嗎?所以許前部長也同意嗎?"},{"start":10693.7,"end":10711.698,"text":"我們依照程序要對嘛 一定有簽嘛 一定有簽署簽成嘛所以許前部長也同意司長的這個做法嘛所以我們就說針對這個演唱會其實喔黃國昌委員之前也有講你像今天早上很多的委員都針對這一部分我們現在我們"},{"start":10712.859,"end":10739.926,"text":"我們現在執政黨官員這濫用預算的部分這必定已經是系統性的腐敗這是黃國昌委員之前在質詢的時候就有提出那可是我們勞動部輕描淡寫的回應說公務機關預算之用核銷相當嚴謹如有任何事證可提供檢調或廉政單位依法處理也就是說勞動部整個態度就是認為說如果"},{"start":10741.041,"end":10763.874,"text":"有任何不法你就去送,那所以他的意思就是說,針對這個事情查無不法,謝謝指教嘛。土偉永,這樣跟土偉永報告齁,其實第一個針對這一場音樂會的部分,第一個確實是在新公法方面,就是新公法確實是臺灣性別平等跟我們的勞動法治化裡面非常標誌性的事件。"},{"start":10765.168,"end":10782.324,"text":"那但是確實在這個呈現上面呃呈現的形式上面可能大家就對主觀上面會有不同的看法也許部分呈現的橋段其實讓大家觀感不佳這部分我們也在檢討對啊所以所以部長11月24號你們這樣子回覆可是你想想看這個"},{"start":10784.205,"end":10810.968,"text":"短短的4天之後我們的臺北地檢署就以分他治案來辦理我覺得這真的就是重重打臉我們勞動部前面講的輕描淡寫相當嚴謹如果你查有不法歡迎檢查就是好像說你們內部調查是絕對沒有問題結果地檢署馬上來偵辦你講的沒有錯目前其實檢調正在針對這部分開始月卷跟偵查所以我們也會全力的配合"},{"start":10811.826,"end":10828.039,"text":"所以我希望我們勞動部以後針對這些發言你看你講的非常嚴謹結果馬上地檢署就來偵辦然後而且在12月3號勞動部自己馬上又承認這個救安基金使用確實有不妥之處"},{"start":10828.84,"end":10843.917,"text":"所以我不知道說我們勞動部在11月24號這樣子禁止隨便發言那當然那時候部長還沒有來我想那時候其實整直的是說他確實有走過他確實有走經過必要的程序他必要的程序上是有走過"},{"start":10844.778,"end":10857.248,"text":"但是就項目內容上面合不合宜這部分當然可以檢討我希望部長現在在勞動部針對有時候這些發言真的要謹慎你才短短的發言幾天以後就重重打臉我覺得這對勞動部的發言"},{"start":10860.712,"end":10884.994,"text":"應該還是要妥勝啦不是說你今天趕快講一下這個我很嚴謹結果馬上就被辦然後自己又說確實有不妥之處對我們基本上都是用面對問題的態度來看待這些其實大家的指教我希望部長現在到勞動部針對這部分有針對要好好的來好好的去改善一下而且我們現在針對霸凌難的部分其實之前"},{"start":10886.328,"end":10914.349,"text":"何部長的時候我們就有質詢過因為我們據我們了解啊謝一榮前分署長他擔任小主管的時候並沒有這個霸凌的歷史但是他所受的相關的業務經驗沒有職業訓練沒有就業服務的經驗他就去做這個分署長連很多的媒體各方面大家都說他接這個分署長是做直升機啊那不知道部長你對這個是不是為什麼"},{"start":10915.109,"end":10937.35,"text":"他能夠這樣子破格去升任分署長到底是誰幫他的謝前分署長的升任這事情是事實那我想他在當分署長前他做過哪些職位這也都完全都能夠查得到所以這些相關的升任的這些決策我覺得都要必須接受社會的公平"},{"start":10937.85,"end":10956.81,"text":"因為據我們了解啦其實我們認為今天會發生這霸凌案我們是感覺一個主要原因我們的謝前分署長因為他這對這個業務並不是很熟絡所以他在領導我們這些分署裡面的這些同仁他沒有辦法去領導就瞎指揮"},{"start":10957.45,"end":10978.225,"text":"我覺得才後面導致這個霸凌的原因那而且就像部長自己講剛剛我才聽到部長講原來你在去年就知道勞動部這麼多的鬼故事那而且我們也了解說在今年2月份的時候我們的前次長王安邦就有約談過謝怡榮前分署長"},{"start":10978.885,"end":11003.775,"text":"那可是為什麼這個事情也沒有記錄也沒有去做改善才會導致後面這無緣因為霸凌而親身的事情發生如果當初好好處理就不會發生這件事啊這當然是讓人很遺憾的事情那當然我現在上任以後我的工作就是怎麼讓其實這些相關的案件都可以好好的被處理這是我現在的工作"},{"start":11004.502,"end":11032.481,"text":"因為現在我們希望部長上來真的好好調查因為我們那時候臨時提案有講說要重啟調查當然說本來這次就要提出報告那後來部長也說要到下個禮拜嘛對不對我希望這些報告針對王安邦次長這些事情我覺得應該也要有一個交代因為我們據我們了解二月份而且很多委員都講明明知道之前就約談過而且這個事情真的很奇妙約談的長官"},{"start":11034.983,"end":11052.585,"text":"結果被調職結果被約談的還一直穩坐泰山所以人家一直講這個背後到底有什麼靠山我們勞動部到底還有多少局內人我覺得部長喔要真的好好調查清楚因為你這份報告很重要大家都在關注這份報告"},{"start":11053.914,"end":11065.298,"text":"向圖委員說明因為其實現在針對比較是在標案或者是採購上面就經費使用上面的部分現在檢調在查那檢調室友請我們針對假設是針對標案跟採購的部分請我們先暫緩"},{"start":11070.479,"end":11086.6,"text":"我知道但是我希望針對這個霸凌案這中間還有很多的問題當然希望我們都在等這份報告針對霸凌案的部分我們當然現在就是重啟行政調查好因為這個大家對這個都是有很大的意義哦我一直要講啊"},{"start":11087.621,"end":11114.226,"text":"這個事情早之前可以處理到就像之前去年部長的時候就得到聽到很多的鬼故事而且王航班前次長也去約談過可是居然沒效果結果約談過以後他自己9月突然在晚上11點多被發布離職命令我們大家在笑去約談的主管結果自己被調職被約談的反而穩坐泰山所以這部分我希望給你給我們一個清楚的交代"},{"start":11116.255,"end":11139.285,"text":"我們當然希望能夠完整的把這個事件的前因後果然後尤其是這個在本分數裡面的事件能夠透過這個重啟調查能夠呈現的清楚部長大家對你來接這個勞動部長雖然大家說爭議很高可是我們也對你期望很深希望能夠把很多沒有辦法調查的事情希望能夠水落石出謝謝主席"},{"start":11157.516,"end":11182.648,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請我們蘇清泉委員謝謝 我也頂尊喜部長 來我講一個故事給你聽我們的法人醫療法人裡面有一個員工姓謝他是少校少校退伍退伍以後就到我們法人來上班那就在管理部"},{"start":11183.868,"end":11200.78,"text":"現在受教退伍都40幾歲了嘛就牽涉到中高齡就業所以我今天講的每一個地方都很tricky喔那我們停車場的管理人是74歲高齡就業所以這樣這一種的中高齡就業、高齡就業我們勞動部要愛講獎勵啦要獎勵要撥點預算去獎勵這些這個是要鼓勵企業因為現在到處缺人"},{"start":11213.021,"end":11237.556,"text":"那他這個這個這個這個員工這個同仁他前一陣子跑來找我他說他要離職嗯我說你為什麼要離職他說我說跑不動就業這個要好好珍惜因為你本來就有退休放了嘛齁軍少校退有月退他說他要出去創業我扯死了我說你要創業你是那個你是那個特工的問題我問他要做什麼他說要做茶壇"},{"start":11241.578,"end":11243.72,"text":"我問他三個問題第一個我說你的本質學能有沒有比原來這個老闆強第二個我說"},{"start":11264.229,"end":11265.65,"text":"第3個我問他說：他是怎樣才不會做：他說 了解"},{"start":11287.307,"end":11307.151,"text":"我了解一下,哇,旁邊四五大,不一樣的,親親茶涼的,有什麼什麼,超多啦,什麼白痴囉我講,旁邊那麼多勁精,我講你這三個條件,你有比他更怕命嗎?你本子學能有比他強嗎?你可以這樣做到晚上10點嗎?再來,你有本人要料嗎?我講,這個就做不好了,你平時怎麼做得好?"},{"start":11317.959,"end":11320.201,"text":"同樣的問題我們合佩山11月22日在這公家"},{"start":11349.577,"end":11373.177,"text":"我當主席嘛,流淚流的事,所以我非常不捨我都把他紊亂,把他勾勒,他很害怕他也很害怕,他說公務體系很僵化,這他講的,就在身邊講這裡到那邊,我剛剛給他算了,差不多8點多公尺啦我這裡打包到那裡"},{"start":11374.468,"end":11375.848,"text":"其實我想我非常清楚知道現在勞動部"},{"start":11404.691,"end":11433.138,"text":"內外面對到的的壓力跟狀況其實都有非常非常大的挑戰那行政院在邀請我出任這個職位之後當然我現在決定我決定接受我就是做全部的承擔跟全力以赴所以從我的角度來說我比較不會去想說條件好壞的問題我現在我現在的工作就是全力以赴把問題一步一步的解決這樣子"},{"start":11434.645,"end":11459.014,"text":"就是你碰到的問題要解決從早上到現在都是你以前幫勞工幫各界幫職業團體講的話今天大家都一一的拿來給你檢視你講過的話你自己就要承擔當然你講過的話你要怎麼解決你要有一些復案公務體系真的是不好搞"},{"start":11461.015,"end":11476.164,"text":"蠻僵化,退也退不動而且隊伍那麼龐大我剛剛一個一個勞動力發展署他加上外面的僱員臨時工的八百重室的什麼八百重工加起來就好幾千人"},{"start":11477.788,"end":11501.322,"text":"裡面都是業聘人員一大堆真的有公務員人才不到五分之一對不對所以很難做嘛所以你現在自己要面對的不一樣做你為請差公共的去到那裡不可以請差公共的對啦我沒有覺得立委都是請差公共的啦沒有啦至少在這邊執行不用負法律責任嘛所以只要負道德責任"},{"start":11502.438,"end":11515.338,"text":"好那我還有2分23秒第二個問題我要問你的就是今天出問題這一這幾間都是救援安定基金嘛那勞動部下面有6個基金對"},{"start":11517.355,"end":11543.573,"text":"那這個基金舊安定基金收入是298億182萬元支出是273億3000多萬這個是舊安定基金那其他的有勞保的作業基金舊制的勞退基金新制的勞退基金基建公司的基金採訪法人職業災害的中心"},{"start":11546.375,"end":11562.409,"text":"這個基金有問題嗎?現在其實勞務下面有六個基金那這六個基金的性質其實跟這個捐基金的性質比較不一樣因為他其實他的收入跟他的尤其是他的"},{"start":11563.65,"end":11579.122,"text":"這些其他的基金很多他都有固定的給付所以他的性質是比較不一樣那個部分當然他的使用上面是我們的基金運用局在做整體的使用那因為就案基金確實他會承接比較多人比如說會有來自不同的申請"},{"start":11579.943,"end":11598.212,"text":"包括地方政府也來申請勞工團體工會等等等都會來針對救安定基金如果他符合我們在救福法裡面包括是提升勞工福祉促進國民就業或者是這個移工相關的管理事務的話他都可以來申請所以他們的性質上面是比較不同的"},{"start":11598.993,"end":11623.283,"text":"所以其他的作業基金應該是不太會出問題啦比較不會不受控阿亂做我想我們業務單位都非常非常嚴謹的在把關對像勞退基金幼稚變成國安基金在顧股市的什麼的那個有時候要去操作的那個有法制化有很嚴謹嗎"},{"start":11624.875,"end":11642.433,"text":"跟蘇緣報告齁其實我們在這些其他的基金包括勞保基金包括剛才說新制舊制等等等這些基金包括這個職財保險也有相關的基金這些基金我都已經要求同仁在管理的原則上最重要就是要專業就是用專業那"},{"start":11645.829,"end":11667.985,"text":"這個有很多管理上面的做法上面我們怎麼樣避免外界不當的干預那尤其是現在逐步的過去確實發生過相關的弊案那但是這幾年也把相關的機制建立的越來越完善這是事實機制的建立已經越來越完善那我現在更要求就是以專業為導向來做這些其他基金運用的管理"},{"start":11669.585,"end":11672.107,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":11678.609,"end":11705.06,"text":"我對洪部長到從立委跑到勞動部去我也替你爭爭不敢也替你爭混亂希望好好的做各個署各個司要督促我想你當一個政務官就是要好好的盯盯住那下面的要慢慢改事實上"},{"start":11705.82,"end":11727.631,"text":"有些有些看起來真的是蠻蠻僵化蠻不好推的齁但是你還是要排除萬難啦謝謝謝謝謝謝主委很鼓勵如果總統行政黨支持你那你就好好幹嘛我覺得最重要的是要讓勞工朋友也能夠信任我們然後包括我們部內的同仁能夠信我講這是最重要的更重要的加油加油"},{"start":11756.423,"end":11758.145,"text":"議案全部都三分鐘有料了啦齁 齁 齁 齁 齁 齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁齁�"},{"start":11776.328,"end":11804.662,"text":"第一案為了更有效地應對職場霸凌建議勞動部應針對勞工執行職務造成身體或精神不法侵害預防的界定進行明確規範在研擬相關規範時應廣泛徵求專家學者勞工代表及工部門相關人士的意見建請勞動部能在三個月內提出修法方向並積極推動立法修正提案人委員林月晴 郭育晴連署人委員黃秀芳 王振旭"},{"start":11805.282,"end":11826.543,"text":"第二案．有鑒於勞動部所屬就業安定基金長期出現濫用情形．原此．要求勞動部以更嚴謹的方式．進行審視該計劃經費之用的合一性．競速諮詢第三方專家提供建議．並進一步規劃把關就安基金之用的強化機制．若有確實證據及疑慮．應移送政風及檢調單位．"},{"start":11830.306,"end":11855.048,"text":"並於一周內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出就業安定基金 完整的精進及檢討報告提案人委員王育敏 陳金輝 陳昭芝 邱振鈞 廖偉翔 圖權吉 蘇清泉 黃建豪 宣讀完畢請問第一案新任辦委有沒有意見報告沒有意見主席代理主席我有意見"},{"start":11856.997,"end":11884.99,"text":"因為第一案他的語意太模糊建請勞動部在三個月內提出修法方向他是講方向那早上我在質詢部長的時候你說下會期就要提出來那已經是個法案這講的只是個方向我覺得方向太模糊了如果通過這個提案那到底是以早上部長的回答下個會期二月份就要送進來還是是只是提一個草案方向這差太多了"},{"start":11896.092,"end":11909.836,"text":"這件事情外界對我們時程上的壓力其實也是很大的我非常清楚可是因為這個法規的修訂包括相關的條文的擬定其實我們真的會需要一些時間我知道很大家很急"},{"start":11911.121,"end":11938.661,"text":"但是真的會需要一些時間因為這裡面真的會有一些專業上面的問題我們也在參考國際上面的意見坦白說我們也不敢非常草率的送出一些條尤其是這裡面修法的方他可能不是很可能不是只是修一個單條如果修一個單條這比較簡單可是他可能他的這個修法的方向真的是比較複雜我覺得我們真的會盡快可是你說一定是在2月的時候就有一個版本"},{"start":11940.151,"end":11963.412,"text":"我是真的擔心說如果一定要這樣子要求的話變成是送出來的草案的版本可能也會不夠嚴謹我真的擔心這件事情我覺得要一個期程我早常在質詢就是說你要一個進度表那你到時候如果不行你再告訴委員會說為什麼不行但總要有一個目標跟方向所以我剛才跟網友也說明就是說我自己會很希望是在比方下個會期的時間"},{"start":11965.093,"end":11979.278,"text":"這個草案有一個初步的版本那是不是可以修改成部長的意思這樣草案的版本這個是方向這個是郭委員他對不是啊就是如果這個通過的話會跟你的語意就是像漢格你知道嗎就是說這個是方向"},{"start":11981.2,"end":11982.16,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":12003.666,"end":12026.169,"text":"因為有三種的不同的狀況那我想說這個因為其實跟每一個所謂的在職場當中碰到的一些樣態其實會有很多的那個我想跟委員說明其實現在關於這個霸凌防制的法制化其實就像禮拜一其實有很多的專家委員給我們很多的意見"},{"start":12027.71,"end":12055.72,"text":"這些意見裡面包括修法的路徑到底是要修專法還是專章還是修少部分條文其實這都待決定那也包括裡面要放入哪些東西也有委員期待說是不是要放入更多的東西坦白說這裡面有很多部分真的需要一條一條好好的研議這些事情我覺得比較像是修法方向有了一個方向後才比較能夠去做細緻具體條文的研議"},{"start":12063.592,"end":12080.024,"text":"因為還要再廣泛徵求專家的意見我們尊重提案的委員那我要問部長是說什麼時候要版本因為你答應我早上尋答的時候你說是下會期對我說下會期三個月後有方向就已經是下會期了那什麼時候要版本修法的草案要送進立法院"},{"start":12081.244,"end":12101.851,"text":"幾月比如說4月5月你總是抓一個時間嗎你先給外界大家都在關注這個嗎那你就給一個時間到時候你如果產不出來那有何正當的理由大家都可以諒解我是真的是希望是真的是希望是下會期啦在下會期的期間裡面我們可以來把版本給研議我們把版本給研議出來"},{"start":12102.671,"end":12102.911,"text":"好 那就"},{"start":12128.209,"end":12149.26,"text":"這不是你,王委員這不是你提的,所以要加你算是前政黨會加的所以我這條只能召喚通過,這樣而已你有意見你再提,再提就好了好,那第一案就召喚通過,來,第一案第二案行政黨員有沒有意見"},{"start":12152.282,"end":12173.671,"text":"其實就針對那個倒數第三行的部分就是說並一週希望能夠改成一個月對我們剛才在詢答的時候也聽說其實用一個月的時間我們就這個救安基金的把關機制上面我們邀請一些相關的專業者來給我們建議那我們會拿在一個月希望提出一個方案"},{"start":12182.912,"end":12183.993,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":12218.115,"end":12218.536,"text":"好,我們臨時提案處理完畢"},{"start":12228.274,"end":12245.447,"text":"那接下來我們請林淑溫委員發言我們王振旭委員發言後我們休息20分鐘吃便當讓大家不要被霸凌好 謝謝主席我是不是再請我們的這個部長 洪部長謝謝林委員"},{"start":12252.663,"end":12282.032,"text":"部長在你的臉書說上週我一上任以後我就指示同仁我們必須要針對舊安基金的資用進行檢討那你指示同仁針對這個舊安基金進行檢討你自己有沒有先針對舊安基金裡面所編列的這個計畫項目稍微看一下有哪些你是你認為說這些違規的資用項目不適當的資用項目不適當的計畫你覺得哪幾項是很特別很深刻的"},{"start":12282.412,"end":12308.709,"text":"然後可以提出來討論事實上也應該一併要檢討的不是只有媒體講的這一些演唱會或是水電費或是什麼的你有沒有其他印象深刻的跟林委員報告其實其實我要求上週其實就要求同仁檢討我們其實確實現在看到的狀況是就是說他有他必須經過的程序的機制我是問你有沒有其他項目啦有不用講這麼多因為我身體不太舒服"},{"start":12310.35,"end":12339.466,"text":"你講太久我等一下又要吐了不是因為你講話是我真的真的暈眩想吐好比方說我們其實看到勞動部下面有一間會議室的設備採購跟裝修那這個都講過了那你還有其他的項目2200萬其實我們陸陸續續真的都是陸陸續續在清查編列的不合時宜不應該編到這個救安基金來的"},{"start":12343.643,"end":12368.828,"text":"這確實是針對現在在救安基金裡面其實也許我們自己勞動部過去會有一套我們覺得為什麼可以編類進行講法但是從社會的觀感來說可能覺得是不適合部長你到底有沒有看一下你因為你也是曾經是我們未完委員會我就直接你因為你都一直講不出來我直接就教於你我覺得這個錢是該花但是是不是應該"},{"start":12370.308,"end":12374.47,"text":"編載救安基金絕對可以討論,第一個,辦理國內技能競賽及選手培訓編列,4億8500萬,參加國際技能組織賽事及交流訪問,編列7億3900多萬,"},{"start":12387.537,"end":12409.989,"text":"你覺得這個該編到這個基金裡面來嗎我跟你們報告其實確實過去其實這個因為勞動部部本部的預算其實都一直很少這個會是救安基金的對大量使用但12億多元我知道業務單位會認為說這符合在救福法裡面所謂促進國民就業是他用這個是"},{"start":12411.73,"end":12412.392,"text":"國際競賽是國際技能競賽國內技能競賽"},{"start":12419.554,"end":12441.408,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們在促進國民就業的過程當中有關如何提升國人對於技職的一個價值的一個認可這個部分是一個這競賽要辦到12億喔你們都辦了什麼因為這個部分比較特別在於說我們目前除了在花了12億的競賽到底是辦什麼除了分區的競能競賽跟到底是競賽啥啦"},{"start":12442.709,"end":12449.334,"text":"就是我們這個相關的技術職類我們都不知道說你們的競賽光是一個競賽不是演唱會300多萬國內和國際競賽就花了12億這個真的是有一點誇張那沒關係再把詳細細目通通送上來你們過去十幾億都怎麼花的第二個綠能產業作業安全促進計畫這個是職業安全與衛生那編到我們這個勞發署裡面的救安基金來不是救保"},{"start":12472.111,"end":12478.194,"text":"不是保險的這個安全上的是是編到這個促進就業的綠能產業作業安全基金的促進計畫花了1140萬這個東西不是應該就業安全為什麼獨厚綠能產業那綠能產業如果是因為高空作業一身危險那為什麼建築業沒有為什麼其他營造業沒有補助就只偏偏補助這個綠能產業"},{"start":12500.146,"end":12524.38,"text":"各位報告這綠聯產業這案的計畫是我們子安署提的因為這個對阿子安署沒有編在你自己的救保基金裡面沒有在你自己的署內的業務然後編到這個安定基金來然後安定基金就算了你怎麼你怎麼只獨厚綠能產業高空墜落建築業為什麼沒有其他的那個容易一生殖災的產業為什麼沒有補助獨厚綠能產業而我們知道綠能產業"},{"start":12528.462,"end":12530.688,"text":"至少很多在股價上都是相當的表現得很不錯的"},{"start":12534.244,"end":12560.785,"text":"各委員報告因為綠能產業從氫能太陽能太陽能等等都是算新的對啦為什麼是綠能那為什麼我們要看你的職業安全與衛生職災發生率最高的那一些產業為什麼沒有補助啊他們有比綠能產業還不危險嗎綠能產業有比我們最常發生的那些職災高的那些產業別還更重要重要到政府需要補助其他的常發生職災的卻沒有拿到補助嗎為什麼"},{"start":12563.046,"end":12564.508,"text":"這沒有補助款嗎?你確定嗎?你把詳細的動資的狀況拿來好了。好,那我再就教一部長齁"},{"start":12581.108,"end":12599.315,"text":"為了強化私立救福機構的就業服務的專業性勞動部開辦了以及技術式的檢定考試範圍要包括勞動法令招募和職業輔導等等私立救福機構他設立許可及管理辦法這裡面就要求說你就業的這些服務的專業人力都一定要取得這個"},{"start":12600.306,"end":12609.771,"text":"強制取得這個以及證照的這個制度但是你們公立自己的就業輔導的這些救福機構卻沒有被強制私立的要強制公立的沒有要強制然後我們都知道我以前也曾經開過一個玩笑公立的救福機構裡面是未來的失業者要輔導現在的失業者但是如果你還有一個專業的話我們在講有專業"},{"start":12626.1,"end":12653.655,"text":"還好一點現在是沒有證照的沒有專業認證的未來的失業者在輔導現在的失業者因為裡面都是承攬的以前都是用那個承攬以前都是用這個派錢那其實大家講說其實服務有關公共就業服務他其實要強化服務人員的專業的資格那所以要提要"},{"start":12654.475,"end":12654.916,"text":"請問部長你知不知此這樣的觀點"},{"start":12674.593,"end":12690.081,"text":"剛剛我聽劉委員講我其實是支持這樣的觀點的當然是那因為以前的證照就業服務的專業人員有區分成仲介人力的還有輔導人員就是救福輔導的還有這個就業仲介的那現在整合成一張這個證照一張技術試證以後他會具備兩項資格"},{"start":12695.024,"end":12721.851,"text":"但是因為法規規定私立就業服務機構的專業人員比例因法定的設置標準所以該技術市政成為外勞仲介的必備的證照依法規規定估算私立就業服務機構的專業人員比例大概20到30%那他們其實是特別是私立的就業服務機構裡面一定要有這個證照那看起來就是我們的公立的服務機構裡面"},{"start":12723.531,"end":12744.538,"text":"正照的比例只有到63%那事實上扣除掉人資相關的正照只有59%是具有以及這個正照的這個資格那我們看就是說以及正照要考什麼要考勞動法令要考職業輔導和招募就業服務人員的工作任務還包含職業來諮詢就業輔導職業介紹就業市場的趨勢職業培訓和後續的追蹤輔導看起來這個就是"},{"start":12753.018,"end":12769.033,"text":"要考的以及技術式的證照就是公立就業服務機構就業服務人員的工作的服務內容而這些要做這些服務內容的這些所有公立機構的人都不需要有這種證照這有一點有一點"},{"start":12770.234,"end":12791.574,"text":"有趣啊,所以我們在講說,勞動部到底是沒有硬性規定你們公立的要取得這個以及技術式的證照,但是你們都說我們有在執訓啊,我們會做什麼法令啊,職業倫理、職業生涯的這一些在上課啊,但在講法就是說,那這樣的話,那以及技術式的這個證照是雞肋,一點不重要嗎?"},{"start":12795.592,"end":12800.434,"text":"那如果他是雞肋的話那在私立就業服務機構有證照無證照也沒有保證品質啊那該證照到底是還有價值嗎還是乾脆就廢除了還是說事實上我們應該對證照制度應該蓋更多的肯定所以專業上認證上含金量應該更多就業服務的以及技術是檢定的"},{"start":12819.344,"end":12843.03,"text":"這個制度的精進 考試的精進 定位的檢討這個勞發署都應該要再檢討 是不是到底是要把它當成直接大家都不用了廢除了還是說更專業那證照上面的規範應該更精進含金量應該更高那如果含金量要更高的話你公立救福機構的這一些人都不需要有證照人家私立服務機構的還有證照勒"},{"start":12845.208,"end":12873.738,"text":"是跟委員報告這個部分有關公立跟私立救福機構的相關專業人員因為他的業務執掌的不同而對於他的專業裡面的這一些需求的一個內容是不是反映在我們的技術師證我就講了你們公立機構的業務執掌的範圍就跟考以及技術式的證照的內容是一致的是所以反而看起來是你們公立救福機構的這一些服務人員更需要擁有以及證照是"},{"start":12875.151,"end":12903.531,"text":"是對啊那到底是要是要怎麼樣是要讓這個證照更專業那你們內部的公立的這個服務機構的所有的人什麼時候可以達成每一個輔導人力都是100%擁有專業的證照的這個資格的國務委員報告因為這個證照他的這個緣起的時間跟我們公立救福機構存在的時間還是有前後上的差異所以目前是採取鼓勵我們的對啦那你告訴我到底是時程上要不要追上啦"},{"start":12905.063,"end":12930.576,"text":"就是說未來多久你們希望每一個公立的都要有證照才能在公立機構當專業的服務者那個我們我跟我來跟業務單位討論一下針對拉高這個以及證照公立教育服務機構證照的比例逐步的拉高施力的是100%是那我們逐步的來拉高對我們來提一個期程好不好好"},{"start":12931.536,"end":12958.218,"text":"沒有證照的未來的失業者輔導現在的失業者的現象要解決就是我們來提一個逐步拉高的期程好不好好那另外的問題就改天再討論因為這個北分署的事情有一個制度面的問題我上次問過何部長洪部長也麻煩你回去一併思考就是說因為那個自殺的無性那個員工然後他們"},{"start":12959.299,"end":12978.662,"text":"他下面有五個至六個勞務承攬的人力但是他沒有指揮監督權所以即便有人力他也不能叫他做事那這樣子的狀況你們通通派遣太難聽了所以全部改成勞務承攬就沒有派遣的事結果派遣你還可以指揮監督"},{"start":12979.523,"end":12979.683,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12996.047,"end":13012.274,"text":"那個因為其實我們在重新再調查瞭解的過程裡面非常清楚知道現在在人力結構上面我們確實覺得他有不健康的地方整個勞發署都是這樣子在這個不健康的狀況之下是很容易出這些問題的這是潛在的原因"},{"start":13013.314,"end":13028.624,"text":"對你回去研究一下派遣然後勞務承攬但我最後再講一個因為剛才有委員一直提到零數分零數分零數分我來講說你認知的茶水間是設置在部長辦公室裡面對不對我就問這一句就好了"},{"start":13029.705,"end":13054.063,"text":"整個部長辦公室部長辦公室有幕僚工作室然後設在部長辦公室幕僚工作室進去他不是在我個人的那一間對他不是在你但是我問你幕僚的工作室是不是也是部長辦公室的一環所以你所認知的茶水間其實是在部長辦公室裡面所以並不是大家都會進去用"},{"start":13054.683,"end":13074.862,"text":"頂多是幕僚可以用是部長的幕僚跟部長共同在用當初謝怡榮當初那個祖密他就是在他們在用我指出的就是他們在用的當然商辦大樓是不可能有明火瓦斯管的商辦大樓沒有人會接瓦斯管所以都"},{"start":13075.422,"end":13076.623,"text":"接下來我們請王振旭委員質詢"},{"start":13107.983,"end":13126.569,"text":"好 謝謝主席我先祝我們這個林書恩委員早日康復剛剛真的很辛苦而且還很努力的把他的工作做得非常好真的要 大家都要多小心自己的健康我們就麻煩文部長 謝謝"},{"start":13133.527,"end":13161.459,"text":"是部長恭喜那也很辛苦因為這的確是一個困難的工作要您來承擔那也希望您在這個承擔過程裡面除了注重自己身體健康的同時也把所有勞工的健康還有所有的部分都可以做得非常的依照您的理想來執行是那今天就根據三個部分來跟您請教因為"},{"start":13162.239,"end":13183.268,"text":"這三個部分主要就是之前也跟過去何部長還有許民生部長都有承諾過一些政策來做一個確認包括有勞保年金還有移工醫療呆帳還有有關於這個我們一些勞工如果他有做一些健康檢查那如何跟衛護部的資料可以做一些銜接"},{"start":13184.611,"end":13206.475,"text":"第一部分就是我們也了解這個勞保年金要改革是一個很需要持續進行的部分可是我們也理解很多的勞工朋友他退休的時候他的給付包括他的這個所能平均的費用只有18824那低於2萬元的甚至還超過百萬的這些勞工的朋友"},{"start":13211.116,"end":13231.097,"text":"這一部分其實之前何部長有一直在確認說因為這個勞保年金已經很低很低了所以在這個改革過程裡面是覺得會不會砍到這些給付年金的費用那當初的考量有包括三大點一個就是勞保年金給付相對是低的"},{"start":13231.718,"end":13247.033,"text":"再過來就是他的家庭成員可能他的青年低薪勞保年金的這個勞工退休是一個收入主力不適合再做處理那第三個更重要就是避免勞工因為恐慌而去申請那"},{"start":13247.634,"end":13268.146,"text":"他申請的過程如果他一次就全部領退對他未來的生活其實更沒有保障那會影響到更多的權益那這邊要確認的是那您在這方面的意見或者是針對這個廣泛勞動朋友勞動朋友所關心的這個勞金改革的部分不曉得您的意見是如何"},{"start":13269.086,"end":13294.448,"text":"跟委員報告其實今年在這個撥補包括基金投資的收益之下目前看起來這個基金餘額的水位其實有在增加的很有可能在今年其實會破一兆那我們會用各種方式來維持基金餘額的水位那這邊在講到確實我也同意這個何部長的看法其實砍如果要砍給勞工的給付這真的會影響到這個"},{"start":13296.65,"end":13298.051,"text":"對我們會用各種方式來維持盡量維持基金的水位"},{"start":13317.219,"end":13342.752,"text":"那第二個問題就是有關於這個移工10年也困難包括他身體健康為何的時候他還是必須要進到醫療的單位裡面去接受醫療那我想臺灣的健保制度即使是目前的狀態所有的醫療單位一定也會針對於只要在臺灣的民眾"},{"start":13344.032,"end":13360.426,"text":"當他健康有需要醫療的時候呢是不會有任何拒絕的這個是我們可以充分理解的可是我們也知道這些移工失聯移工他身體出狀況的時候他的費用就會造成醫院處理以後的這些代帳的困擾"},{"start":13361.227,"end":13390.198,"text":"那在今年的4月份臺灣醫院協會也針對於全臺灣470家的醫院去了解他們在執行過程當中針對於這個包括照顧失聯移工跟黑屋寶寶的醫療代帳那我們看到這個代帳的問題其實是蠻多元的齁至少在過去5年裡面就基建了1.25億以上包括醫學中心也好區醫院也好地區醫院也好"},{"start":13390.68,"end":13407.099,"text":"那這些代帳我曾經也諮詢過好幾次那你也曾經建議說是不是有其他的資金的來源包括安定基金可以來支援這方面不管是用來支付也好或是用來編戶也好能夠解決"},{"start":13408.32,"end":13429.982,"text":"至少這筆呆帳不要一直掛在這個醫院這樣的這個單位裡面所以今天也特別再請教一下部長那將來針對於這部分的這個醫療呆帳有沒有其他的思維模式因為我們也知道其實這個安定基金裡面的第5條第6款有講到要辦理勞工福祉"},{"start":13431.323,"end":13456.368,"text":"這個勞工理論上也應該包含我們的移工第7款是辦理外國人聘僱管理事項相對來講我們這些移工也算是外國人的一個來源所以這部分可不可以也再請研議看看那第二部分就是要強化這個外國仲介的責任我們也期待將來在外國仲介這個部分的責任也可以再加強第三個是移工來源國"},{"start":13457.309,"end":13461.086,"text":"能不能夠透過MVU的方式來請他們來負擔這部分部長的意見怎麼樣"},{"start":13462.881,"end":13486.499,"text":"那個第一個跟外國人報告我其實完全理解我們其實很多醫院其實在這個移工事件的狀況下面還是提供移工就醫的權利這其實是一個醫療人權從醫療人權的價值的角度在進在在進行那相關的這些現在所謂的這個呆帳那該要由誰來做承擔"},{"start":13490.015,"end":13507.514,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在剛委員提到兩個部分第一個就是有關移工的小朋友就是黑戶寶寶這個部分目前我們分別已經透過衛福部跟內政部移民署已經有相關的一個醫療甚至安置還有如果要之前又要遣返的話相關的費用是有補助的所以黑戶寶寶的問題比較小"},{"start":13508.875,"end":13531.107,"text":"但是確實失聯移工目前我們並沒有提供他的醫療費用的一個補助那主要的考量在於說如果一般合法在台工作的移工他的健保以外沒有給付的醫療的部分費用他都必須要自己負擔的話那我們對於這些無證的移工失聯的移工我們提供這個相關的醫療費用的補貼是不是會有一些觀感的問題必須考量"},{"start":13531.627,"end":13555.024,"text":"所以這個部分確實我們是朝著剛剛委員所提醒的包括透過雙邊我們的一個跟蘭嶼國之間的繼續的洽談怎麼讓他可以協助我們去做一些家屬跟外國仲介的一個聯繫同時也希望能夠透過法令的研修把外國仲介的連帶責任的部分把它納入他必須要對於這些醫療費用的電付基線款項分也納入他的一個這個連帶保證的範圍之內這個會持續來努力"},{"start":13559.628,"end":13578.301,"text":"我自己認為這裡面可能會有幾個議題會需要考慮就是說我們怎麼樣不會讓這個失聯義工的這個醫療的費用的支出反而變成是這個擴大或增加失聯義工數字的道德風險那我覺得這部分當然是會必須去考慮的事情但就概念上面我自己認為說"},{"start":13580.305,"end":13605.833,"text":"到底是這個移工之所以失聯的責任在主要在誰身上其實誰就應該針對這件事情有比較大的致富的責任我覺得一個想法是這樣但當然會有一些細節操作面的細節的部分我覺得我也會來跟業務單位我們在做討論但我理解其實業務單位可能擔心的事情是就是說怎麼樣不會變成是擴大移工失聯的這樣子的道德的風險"},{"start":13606.693,"end":13632.93,"text":"因為合法的移工要繳錢,非法移工假如全部都是由政府或者追問基金來出的話怎麼不會造成這樣子的結果,他們可能考慮考慮的點是這個事情好,那就麻煩部裡面再去願意那第三部分就是勞工健檢的資料,我們在兩個禮拜前也提過一個臨時提案希望針對未來在打造這個健康台灣過程裡面,很多的勞工健康資料透過檢查以後,如何能夠有效的跟"},{"start":13633.71,"end":13640.837,"text":"我完全同意我完全同意這是這些資料之間的流通交換跟能夠綜合性發揮更大價值的使用所以我們會來跟衛福部來去討論這個資料上面的對接這部分我是非常同意好那就麻煩再持續執行"},{"start":13660.114,"end":13674.269,"text":"最後就是有關於這個職場霸凌這是今天的主題我相信大家對於如何能夠有效的去處理我們今天面對的困境大家對於部長真的期望非常高那到目前為止我們也感受到部長"},{"start":13675.37,"end":13691.567,"text":"用心決心還有努力的方向希望能夠盡快的讓這個事件可以落幕了以後把整個這個相關的同仁的士氣還有對於做事情的態度都能夠做一個完整的該有的一些方向跟訴求"},{"start":13692.507,"end":13718.172,"text":"那這邊是有想要針對於說如果有職場霸凌的話尤其職場在行為人是最高負責人這個部分我們現在如果透過內部機制事實上是無法解決這樣的問題那透過性評法可以用外圍的這個第三調查的或申訴的機制來處理那這部分是不是也將來部長會朝這個方向針對一般的職場也是用同樣的規範"},{"start":13720.073,"end":13740.556,"text":"跟網友報告其實確實現在會有一些外界的聲音希望在這方面的職場霸凌的防治希望能夠有參考新公法的做法那現在沒有錯現在到底就是說尤其是如果霸凌的這個加害者是雇主的時候現在在現有的機制裡面"},{"start":13741.756,"end":13762.627,"text":"這確實就是一個大問題在這種機制裡面沒辦法處理所以我們其實也請業務單位在做這個法規的研議的時候要把這東西列現在提出來的這個問題列為是重點要去解決的問題但是要透過第三方也好或者是拉高上面的層級我覺得這些做法目前其實都沒有排斥但最後我們還是"},{"start":13763.687,"end":13766.629,"text":"最後各位主席再有一分鐘的時間讓我們這個部長對勞動部業務推動的期許"},{"start":13800.71,"end":13809.019,"text":"其實在我上任從上週到現在其實最明顯感覺是我們要怎麼把部內同仁的士氣可以重新的凝聚起來"},{"start":13810.14,"end":13830.7,"text":"那我自己在上週期我們花很多心力在面對這個問題因為這一段時間外界有很多的指教跟對勞動部的質疑真的都讓部內我們接下來很多業務工作的進行其實大家也許會有很多的不安或者是"},{"start":13832.478,"end":13846.303,"text":"會有一些不夠有信心的地方所以我上來以後最重要的事情是案內那這也是為什麼我們其實很加速的去規劃剛剛說像針對北分署的職場重建與員工支持的方案都是從這個事情的出發點"},{"start":13847.503,"end":13849.064,"text":"好,謝謝部長的回應,一起努力,謝謝主席"},{"start":15257.455,"end":15258.056,"text":"我們繼續開會請劉建國委員執行"},{"start":15289.212,"end":15291.923,"text":"好謝謝張偉部長如果好就請部長了"},{"start":15300.347,"end":15317.664,"text":"委員好部長好部長辛苦了你以為說命代打上陣但我沒相信你一定可以在勞動部裡轟出一支漂亮的權威打漂亮的權威打前面要再加改革改革的權威打也要肯定你的勇氣在這個事件之後"},{"start":15321.627,"end":15342.204,"text":"來接這個部長所以要打出一個漂亮的一個改革改革的漂亮的全壘打漂亮改革的全壘打我想大家關注的就一件事情就是11月19號北分署的調查報告我想剛剛很多委員都給你垂詢過了但你的答覆我還是希望要很明確因為畢竟已經兩個禮拜了"},{"start":15345.39,"end":15361.364,"text":"不管怎麼樣卓院長也特別在那個當下只是要一個星期所以我是覺得依照你我們過去同事這樣的一個認識跟知道你做事情的積極度我想應該"},{"start":15363.546,"end":15384.319,"text":"應該可以明確的快速的有效的讓社會大眾來知道這個整個事件的來龍去脈然後也告慰王哲在天之流然後也安慰我們勞動部相關同仁的這樣的一個心情跟那個留言報告齁其實可以不要加那個嗎好請說"},{"start":15389.335,"end":15417.081,"text":"其實我們非常知道現在大家對外界最勞動部最關注的其實就是重啟調查的調查報告從上個禮拜我們開始做這個重啟調查的作業準備到這個禮拜開始實質的訪談調查包括相關的報告的撰寫到下禮拜出來我可以跟委員說其實這裡面沒有一天待滿每天都有進度而且其實是盯得很緊的但確實在這個案件上面涉及到的層面跟要訪談的對象比較廣"},{"start":15418.681,"end":15420.726,"text":"所以我們也增加了一些約詢的"},{"start":15422.867,"end":15450.312,"text":"各階層的人員希望能夠更完整的還原尤其是無性公務員他在生前他到底遭遇了什麼從他的角度要把視角從他的角度去還原這件事情我們認為非常非常重要所以確實會多一點時間這部分真的是比較不好意思的地方但是我們有跟持續跟行政院溝通也讓行政院知道說這個這個報告提出來的期程也就有徵得行政院的同意對"},{"start":15451.328,"end":15480.529,"text":"坦白說既然行政院邀請你來當勞動部的部長我想也應該要給你有一些緩衝跟足夠的時間但是我坦白說那是卓院長下令的一星期其實是有某種程度的問題存在但是那也是展現一個魄力也不希望說我們在公部門體系有這樣的霸凌的事件層出不窮"},{"start":15481.409,"end":15503.795,"text":"但是既然霸凌不是一件兩件不是一天兩天去聯繫起來的事情怎麼有可能說什麼就一個星期內調查完成這個我就覺得原本就有問題的存在了因為尤其是北分署這個案件他真的目前看到的狀況他真的看起來不是只是這個謝前分署長對於這個吳姓公務員"},{"start":15508.174,"end":15524.277,"text":"各案式的作為甚至是在整個北分署裡面其實是一個普遍性的不當管理的作為所以他確實牽涉到的層面比較廣那我們就也在這個部分上讓行政院都有了解所以在溝通期程上面都讓他們知道"},{"start":15524.537,"end":15548.108,"text":"好啦我知道我也願意給部長時間啦反正這種事情調查原本就是要非常公正公平公開然後詳細的完整性的他才有辦法去呈現出來讓社會大眾可以去大家來做檢視嘛對不對要進得起檢視就不能再像上次那個狀況在發生嘛但是部長你看啦從北分署開始海科館機關署樹花部"},{"start":15548.948,"end":15559.597,"text":"公共部門的這個職場一直在傳出霸凌的事件尤其幾乎都是上對下的管理過當的問題幾乎是這樣所以部長你認為這個職場霸凌的事件臺灣是不是應該有一個專門的法規來進行嚇阻"},{"start":15564.901,"end":15565.961,"text":"執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引"},{"start":15582.087,"end":15607.994,"text":"其實委員建議的沒有錯現在我們在治安法裡面的這個第6條之3其實的定義是非常非常寬鬆的所以在直接操作的執行上會有很多界定上面的問題所以現在我們當然馬上就在做這個資產霸凌防治法制化的工作那其實現在禮拜一的時候其實就要專家學者來討論"},{"start":15609.734,"end":15638.089,"text":"不管是現在有些人提議是要專法或者是要專章我坦白說我自己也覺得恐怕不是只是單修那個第6條之2或第6條之3單一條就可以解決這個事情這是一個蠻大的修法工程但是至於是要走專法還是專章或者什麼這個事情我們我是持開放的態度但現在還在跟專家學的討論中但是絕對不會我認為絕對不會只是修那一條而已因為那絕對是不夠的就機制建立來說一定是不夠的"},{"start":15639.629,"end":15655.393,"text":"所以當時責任法通過之後大家非常高興好像好像什麼事情都一言而解了那其實回過頭來再檢視這個法律尤其針對霸凌的定義坦白講也很難透過這個法律去明確的目前的法條所以這就是要來討論要來修正"},{"start":15659.034,"end":15661.016,"text":"勞動部在這個指引中有明確指出各部門員工缺勤"},{"start":15682.434,"end":15689.737,"text":"並駕離職率是可以作為辨識及評估危害的參考依據也有特別提到這樣嗎?這不是寫的嗎?對不對?但是當時為什麼都沒有?當時這樣的離職率這麼嚴重了為什麼貴部都不清楚?"},{"start":15700.811,"end":15724.599,"text":"所以這個質疑已有定某個是可以參考的一些依據但怎麼都沒有去使用所以有時候也不是只有法律定好修好完整了我當然期待部長可以定出一個領先全球最好的一個這個防範這個職場霸凌的相關的法律出來對不對但是有時候法律定了如果不照這樣做不這樣依循的話定哪裡定的"},{"start":15725.427,"end":15747.773,"text":"就是在本會議裡面看到確實那個離職率而且甚至很多的我們公務人員他其實是就算是降調他都要走這當然是一個非常非常異常的狀況而且人員這麼大所以到底為什麼當時這個狀況人事的變動這麼大這麼異常沒有有提出更進一步的示警然後大家有一個比較從更上位的部分去解決我覺得這部分當然需要檢討對"},{"start":15749.113,"end":15768.548,"text":"好了我還是期待部長可能就是要辛苦一點的短期之內看這個秀娃的一個範圍跟方向是要給委員會來做一些參考大家共同一起來討論好不好最後最後一件事情部長知道EAP嗎我知道好 員工協助方案嘛對不對那部長對這個事情有掌握嗎"},{"start":15769.386,"end":15793.233,"text":"有 其實我們也是檢視了北分署EAP的狀況所以才會覺得其實可能只有EAP不夠所以現在才規劃了一個可以讓大家去外面找諮商資源的目前這個狀況EAP不夠 部長所講的EAP不夠是指怎樣不夠能不能明確講一點我指的是說因為我去了北分署知道北分署現在整體的狀況恐怕EAP是不夠的我說因為北分署是一個蠻特殊的狀態"},{"start":15794.793,"end":15796.074,"text":"我直接表當就把表秀出來給部長看嘛"},{"start":15817.866,"end":15833.423,"text":"我們預算也就不講了實際原額嘛你看勞動部是280員工學生是45萬然後花署221 23萬這個比例大家可以看差不多的人數當然減了50幾位啦但是經費是減了一半以上"},{"start":15834.765,"end":15849.658,"text":"那再來緬分署75%剩下不到老化署的三分之一但是他的經費好像又一半多一點點再來投足秒82 14.5然後中章投117更少了"},{"start":15850.663,"end":15850.683,"text":"部長﹗"},{"start":15874.028,"end":15895.725,"text":"你的評審：你的預估：你的經驗跟委員報告我們本部的員工協助方案是本部與所屬的就剛才有秀出來的這幾個單位我們是共同的一個員工協助方案那今年度我們是編了總共是180萬那明年我們是編230萬"},{"start":15898.786,"end":15917.095,"text":"你們是全被包給 全包 全包嘛對不對 全包 對阿 全包好 那一個平均是多少 全包那就更糟糕了喔 那個 劉仁其實我即便是230萬啦 坦白說我看到這個數字我都覺得是不足夠的啦 是嗎我覺得這沒有什麼好"},{"start":15917.915,"end":15932.35,"text":"好去找我其實就是不夠的但我們當然會要再爭取更多的資源用在這個地方尤其是勞動部現在面對這麼大就是說內外的壓力的狀況之下很多員工其實在心理上面精神上面的張力特別大"},{"start":15933.231,"end":15958.841,"text":"部長我要特別提到你有帶頭作用貴部有帶頭作用這個事情如果處理不好我追這個事情只有兩年我是上次總統我到五院還有各部會所以在員工的協助方案預算編不夠的沒有編的還是什麼放在什麼地方的我絕對不會放過我絕對會處理到底然後你現在這個是預算的原額跟實際的原額你沒有包括你的約聘顧"},{"start":15961.01,"end":15963.851,"text":"本部的員工協助方案編列的預算是比其他的部會都是最高的"},{"start":15989.517,"end":15990.318,"text":"我當勞動部部長其實就"},{"start":16009.031,"end":16029.757,"text":"本部所需要的需求然後夠不夠我們就看這件事情我基本上我們不看其他部會怎麼樣其他部會不歸我管但就本部實質狀況的需求到什麼地方我們盡量來提高這樣子如果通通不及格就不要互相去比通通不及格再看一個表就好時間到了"},{"start":16031.497,"end":16052.084,"text":"勞工署你看所屬員工協助方案的人士109還有500多位110還有500多位11下降4261213148198這個是一個很奇怪的一個曲線走向這個地方發生問題這個地方員工使用這個協助方案竟然是急速的下降是60%70%在下降"},{"start":16054.645,"end":16074.118,"text":"那顯然員工協助方案在這個地方到底有沒有發揮起這個作用怎麼會剛好這兩年下降得如此之快有沒有掌握還是只有電話打去了其他都不關他們的事情了根文報告我們主要是用在那個次數的啦0800的一個次數這個就是次數啊"},{"start":16077.779,"end":16082.003,"text":"跟委員報告是這樣子的因為我們有去洽詢那個專業心理團隊他們從112年開始統計方式改變他們把那個0800打回去問預約紀錄跟確定形成這些拿掉因為他統計方式改變所以"},{"start":16096.096,"end":16124.338,"text":"就是他們0800的專線除了過去三年除了統計打進去的之外他連那個打回來問這個員工預約紀錄跟確定行程的限數都在前三年的統計裡面從112年他把這個統計數字拿掉所以你要跟我講這個表格算是正常的因為把那兩項拿掉之後下降這樣算是正常不是你跟我講這樣你這樣說不是很奇怪是因為統計方式改變對啦對啊這樣的統計方式改變之後所以他這樣下降算是正常"},{"start":16125.779,"end":16147.556,"text":"那個 對不對我想剛剛同仁解釋的事情是說這個變化的原因啦但我不會去說這個整體我把它叫做是正常啦可是這個變化解釋比較是這個變化的原因啦是因為統計方式的這個登記的變化這樣子可是整體來說跟委員報告我也是看了相關的數據以後才我們上禮拜才做了一個決定說"},{"start":16148.797,"end":16163.808,"text":"如果以現在的這個服務的能量跟方法恐怕不足以支應目前北分署的同仁現在這個階段的需求所以才做了一個專案的特別處理這樣好部長簡單簡單二要我們就做事情就明快一些第一個"},{"start":16164.608,"end":16191.382,"text":"趕快檢視嘛我們的員工協助方案這樣到底夠不夠員工協助方案是要事前接觸員工啦對不是事後才再啟動要怎麼協助員工當然對好所以我們就全面檢視嘛好尤其是勞動部與生作者嘛對不對而且要帶同那民間的帶頭一起來嘛所以是不是在本週五前提出這個員工協助方案的改善方案給委員會做參考可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":16193.413,"end":16207.923,"text":"謝謝劉建國委員 謝謝部長來 繼續我們請鄭正琦委員質詢謝謝主席 我想要請一下洪部長"},{"start":16217.125,"end":16235.295,"text":"部長好 因為從委員變成部長 我們都期待你會更了解民間的聲音 基層的聲音我想這是一個民意代表轉成行政官員很重要的一個部分那我在想說今天因為我們是針對勞發署北區分署的一個事件所產生的一個後續的一個專案報告"},{"start":16236.075,"end":16257.244,"text":"那麼你在報告當中有特別提到說你之後要改進的方向包括要把現行執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的部分提升至法律的位階那我想問一下這個部分就是執行職務遭受不法侵害的部分是指針對在民間勞動的環境還是包括公務環境"},{"start":16258.985,"end":16279.754,"text":"好,跟鄭委員報告,其實這確實有兩個部分,一個部分是一般勞工在一般的職場上面的部分,這個勞工部分當然是歸勞工部管的,也是歸職安法來管的,但確實現在關於公務員,公務員的部分,他在法規上面他比較是屬於公務員的"},{"start":16280.974,"end":16281.214,"text":"跟這位人說明"},{"start":16300.404,"end":16327.371,"text":"一般勞工的部分當然一定是勞動部管理解理解那勞動部下的就是不法樣態嗎勞動部下的公務員我們也有責任嗯勞動部跟所屬下的公務員我們當然有責任但確實現在在那如果不是勞動部所屬的時候你們就沒有責任呃不是我的我不是說沒有責任但是我要說確實現在他們所使用的主要的法規他的法體系比較是在考試院下的這個法體系"},{"start":16329.312,"end":16347.744,"text":"委員長,我想問一下因為你在擔任立法委員期間的時候你之前就曾經聽過北區分署這件事情那你當時認為這個普遍性不適當的管理作為你也知道那你知道這個問題的時候可是你沒有進一步去追究你只是反應跟提醒對不對那導致了後續"},{"start":16349.085,"end":16349.405,"text":"跟這位人說明"},{"start":16374.275,"end":16399.245,"text":"之前我是聽聞但是我聽聞了謝芬署長的不當得管那不是針對無無姓公務員的狀況普遍性不適當管理者普遍性的當然就涵蓋他的這個部分但是不是都是普遍性的這不是針對無姓公務員的案例我是有聽聞但是當時並不是有陳情人來跟我陳情或者是我手上有明確的證據因為我手上沒有明確的證據"},{"start":16400.285,"end":16424.831,"text":"但是有這樣的聽聞所以我當然覺得我還是必須因為因為你當時的狀態你當時也是委員那你知道這個狀態是你沒有很積極去做所以我們現在對於你現在擔任部長之後的時候是不是會很有擔當齁能夠去針對這個部分能夠去解決好那我們其實是有一點點質疑啦齁尤其是在這一次當中的時候我因為北區分署這個事件當中的時候"},{"start":16425.231,"end":16427.352,"text":"現在在行政院如果其他部會的目前當然會是這個"},{"start":16453.52,"end":16482.227,"text":"還是要等到你當行政院長的時候再去處理不是這個意思我的意思是說現在不同的部會先去處理他的部會下因為時間的關係部長我跟你講一下公務之聲靠北電台這裡面從你上來之後一個1.3萬人的粉磚已經有超過300則不同的公務體系的霸凌PO在那上面你知道這件事情嗎我有看過這個粉磚"},{"start":16482.967,"end":16483.488,"text":"跟政務委員說明齁"},{"start":16498.419,"end":16521.876,"text":"我們的職安署確實在霸凌或者是相關的不法侵害上面他有累積他們一些專業所以今天這其他部會的公務人員他們可能現在還是主要適用的相關的保護法規是在考試院下面的法體系但是我們非常非常樂意提供我們在這方面的專業意見那我先跟你講行政院的"},{"start":16523.075,"end":16549.522,"text":"消保處我們辦公室就收到了這樣的一個澄清行政院的下面消保處就有類似的案子我直接跟你講我希望你能夠更積極的去消保處對去處理這件事情就是非常的嚴重那細節我就不講因為霸凌的樣態勞動部應該更清楚那因為時間的關係我最後問一個狀態行政院只是要研議設身心調試架"},{"start":16551.952,"end":16580.03,"text":"你知道這件事情嗎有看到這段時間的新聞跟討論那你支持身心調適假嗎當然我覺得對勞工從勞工的出發點來說身心調適是現在在職場上很重要的事情很重要的部分可是現在行政院的身心調適假只針對公務人員所以你這邊提到說勞工也很需要身心調適假那我希望你這邊能夠"},{"start":16581.471,"end":16600.924,"text":"跟行政院這邊統一的去對待不要只針對公務人員有勞工沒有好不好你勞動部部長我希望能夠針對如果真的我們有身心調適假的時候能夠一體適用我我我們會來可以來做綜合的這些思考OK好謝謝好謝謝政委員謝謝部長那接續我們請習曉鑫委員質詢"},{"start":16614.029,"end":16615.957,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請洪森漢部長"},{"start":16624.053,"end":16644.783,"text":"委員好部長好您是在11月25號上任的對吧是好那我想問一下有一個問題就是上個禮拜的時候因為您已經上任大概一週有餘那差不多上個禮拜的時候勞發署有沒有發一封信件給各個分署要求同仁要填寫表單"},{"start":16646.464,"end":16652.753,"text":"詢問是否有平日加班假日加班超時工作有沒有打卡的情況進行調查"},{"start":16656.696,"end":16682.668,"text":"請回答跟委員報告齁大聲一點好不好跟委員報告齁因為在1120那個時候專題報告的時候有諮詢有一個承諾事項是要全面清查勞動部跟所屬有沒有這種情況那所以我們因應這個部分勞動部有給我們做一個函詢所以我們的確有對說你可以大聲一點嗎這個收音的問題好那我知道那請問部長你知道這件事情嗎"},{"start":16687.368,"end":16705.806,"text":"我坦白說在這個發的時候其實我並不知道啦你不知道那時候你上任了嗎那時候我上任你上任了但你不知道但這件事沒有報上來沒有報上來所以勞發署發了一封信件給各分署同仁要求填寫表單而且呢他是一個實名制的調查喔他要求同仁問"},{"start":16709.289,"end":16709.649,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":16733.692,"end":16740.217,"text":"那你負責的態度是什麼?你覺得有必要道歉嗎?你知道那些同仁他們同事之間心照不宣都知道誰有來加班"},{"start":16756.03,"end":16776.409,"text":"但呢 寫了又後悔要刪掉 怕自己寫出去會造成單位主管不滿 怕拖累不敢寫 寫了又刪除 最後整個單位很有默契的全部給出空白的表單我現在問 你們發出去之後回函裡面 說自己有加班的有多少人 佔多少比例"},{"start":16777.914,"end":16803.223,"text":"請回覆我們回覆之後我們有加班的是大概10個人左右總共有多少人來總共有多少人有回覆的人在10個人左右那你總共發給多少人嗎我們發給本署跟所署大概2000人左右2000人然後回覆了多少人回覆10位請問部長這是一個什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":16804.451,"end":16813.1,"text":"這有符合左院長宣布任命你為部長的時候你的三大期許嗎?你跑到那個你上任的時候跑到了北分署裡面然後留下了你的電話之後這些人也不敢打電話給你啊"},{"start":16828.75,"end":16836.737,"text":"其實有確實有有人打電話給你跟你講這件事確實有基層反應這件事所以有人打電話給你告訴你這件事情那你有處理嗎"},{"start":16837.919,"end":16860.615,"text":"我們其實有看到所以有請有請業務單位去瞭解這個事情瞭解那有暫停嗎?什麼時候停止的?什麼時候停止這件事情的?你這是無非就是對這些公務員再一次的霸凌讓他們緊張嗎?欸走了一個何佩珊來了一個洪森漢然後繼續霸凌是什麼意思啊?第一個徐委員我不覺得這個調查就叫做霸凌啦我覺得是啊"},{"start":16862.612,"end":16882.215,"text":"雖然我覺得說對於調查方法不好或需要改善的部分我們當然願意來改善但我自己認為我不覺得今天發一個調查的問卷下去這就叫做職場霸凌大家都嚇得半死才會給我陳情信那他為什麼不打電話給你要寫陳情信給我"},{"start":16885.294,"end":16895.002,"text":"雖然我要說的是說這個方法如果不妥當的地方我們當然願意改善我也會要求先停下來好再來你以為只有這樣嗎11月28號人事室發信告知各單位早上7點40才可以上班打卡下班卡不能超過5點20超過的要提出報告請問有沒有這件事"},{"start":16909.967,"end":16914.39,"text":"11月28號人事室寫信給全部的基層機關告訴大家呢7點40以後才能夠打上班卡下班卡不可以超過5點20超過的必須要提出報告"},{"start":16937.924,"end":16957.544,"text":"那也不知道是什麼樣的報告是要送單純的加班申請呢還是說呢又會被抓去罵而且這個是沒有法源依據的要求這樣合理嗎所以呢呃陳情仁表示勞動部發展署各分署如果真心要改為什麼要從調查基層開始"},{"start":16959.285,"end":16978.354,"text":"那部長你可以說明一下就是說第一個人事是因為現在告訴我不知道好沒關係那你們是不是要回去調查有沒有發這封信這封信是誰發的如果有發的話是不是要檢討我會來了解而且因為我今天這個澄清信他分兩個部分嘛同一個人寫的前面一件事情已經被證實了確實有這件事"},{"start":16979.935,"end":17002.052,"text":"所以後面他講到的人事是發的這個信那我個人也覺得可能性非常的高我不覺得這個陳情仁他是欺瞞的他是有框騙的我覺得可能性非常的高所以我可以說明就是說我認為人事事可能他是基於他想要去了解現在現存的一些樣態所以想要去這個相關的動作是為了這件事情但是調查的方法規劃的不好可是你看建議讓他當初是怎麼樣的"},{"start":17008.157,"end":17019.999,"text":"他也能意思是告訴你說我要讓你加班但是呢你不能你一定要上下班時間卡要打對嘛但那個人他就只好呢上班的時候打卡下班的時候打卡但他繼續加班啊那所以說你們現在這樣子告知各單位說你7點40打上班卡下班卡不能超過5點20那跟當初現役擁有什麼兩樣你沒有徹底性的去解決加班的問題嗎"},{"start":17034.278,"end":17048.627,"text":"那個選對於怎麼樣降低同仁們不必要的加班這樣的負擔其實我們當然會來一樣會來做檢討那我會來跟人事室這邊討論就是說如果真的需要去了解"},{"start":17049.648,"end":17065.194,"text":"其實這個人事單位下面的一些目前不管是加班的狀況或者是他如果需要了解的話怎麼找到一個比較合宜的方法我覺得這是在調查方法上面的問題呃我不覺得這個事情一定是上公司這個就是跟這個謝宜蓉一樣我不覺得這是不同"},{"start":17067.415,"end":17092.186,"text":"這是真的不等價的事情啦我覺得但是很多的基層同仁覺得新的部長上來之後你口口聲聲說要幫大家從勞權上面去做考量但是你所做的事情呢除了留下你的電話之外所有同仁還是要實名制的調查大家還是不敢說真話這是現在的基層同仁他們所告訴我們的狀態你先不要回答我因為我還有其他的問題要問你"},{"start":17093.346,"end":17096.809,"text":"這個所謂的霸凌他不只是一個謝宜蓉的霸凌他是謝宜蓉們你要知道這樣子的一個霸凌他不可能是一個人就能夠完成的"},{"start":17115.026,"end":17131.592,"text":"他其實是有一個集團包含了主任秘書陶竹苗的就業服務副分署長監察院國家人權委員會的教育交流組的組長還有勞動力發展署的外勞管理署的專門委員他們都曾經在勞動部的北分署裡面"},{"start":17135.993,"end":17138.874,"text":"所以呢我不一一講因為我時間到了那這個報告我會再交給勞動部你們可以看到這個案情上面包含是壓榨同仁然後考積打70分然後呢收受政府補助單位提供的禮品壓榨同仁去寫出國考察報告還幫他自己去寫個人的碩士論文"},{"start":17157.461,"end":17166.606,"text":"甚至呢去盯著女性這個可能有涉及到性騷擾的問題還有呢這個要求同仁集資買萬寶龍的鋼筆送給政策要求中午12點站在電梯門口抓誰先離開去吃飯怎麼會有這麼幼稚的人那他後來就離開他覺得這邊很無聊就離開去那個監察院然後呢這個勞動力發展署的外勞管理組的專委"},{"start":17185.836,"end":17210.261,"text":"在外勞科長期間用公文打罵同仁內部投訴但遭到吃案蔡孟良去袒護他因為他們曾經是組長跟副組長的關係然後呢追查吹哨者所以我要講的是你今天作為部長你要調查的不只是謝宜蓉還有包括很多1234我現在已經有正式的發"},{"start":17211.241,"end":17222.94,"text":"公文給你們喔這個是我發公文給你們請你們要針對其他的部分一起調查因為公務人員上下署裡面在做這些霸凌的越來越多"},{"start":17224.366,"end":17245.064,"text":"學員我這邊讓我做一點說明好不好我們有收到你辦公室來的公文我有收到了這事情有交辦給相關的業務單位也進入到程序裡面處理可是我想講因為這涉及到很多的個案我真的覺得我們在這邊不不宜針對這些個案的細節做過多的討論"},{"start":17249.079,"end":17273.513,"text":"因為裡面我也看到有幾位其實他離開勞動部的時間真的蠻久了蠻久又怎樣我的意思是說你要但你說他是謝怡榮們就是說蠻久又怎樣我在外交部的提的三個霸凌案有的還是重啟調查的林佳龍部長也說他願意重啟調查徐委員我想我要說的是這些每一個案子我們都會我們都會想要把它查清楚"},{"start":17274.312,"end":17288.559,"text":"那多久會查清楚?七天?卓榮泰部長說,調查一併都是七天內,可以嗎?我們會把它查清楚,但是我自己覺得在查清楚前,先不宜做標籤化的這樣子的敘述"},{"start":17293.177,"end":17319.831,"text":"如果查出來不是如陳前說的這樣其實這對於這些裡面很多的同仁也是不公平但我們會查清楚我們一定會查清楚但在查清楚前我真的不覺得我們要做標籤化的敘述這是我擔心的事情我真的擔心這件事情因為我有看到這些敘述但如果現在就要做標籤化的敘述的話如果查出來真的不是這樣的話"},{"start":17321.397,"end":17341.523,"text":"那對上面的現在被提到的人我真的覺得不公平但我們會查清楚那如果屬實的話那你現在幫他的背書呢我沒有幫他背書我只是說在調查前不應該先做標籤化的敘述那如果所有的人都像你這樣子說的話那這些案子所有的東西都會被大事化小小事化"},{"start":17342.263,"end":17364.282,"text":"過去所有的暴力案件都是因為這樣所以才關關相護的啊過去所有的案件都是因為我們就是發一個公文過去然後私下之後呢大家就覺得說哎呀沒有啦這個都是像我之前在外交部我們以前都在外交國防委員會之前有一個案子就是洛杉磯的案子他是被一個女生被性騷擾的然後呢最後結果是什麼就私下去講說有這件事情嘛"},{"start":17364.662,"end":17382.992,"text":"私下講了之後怎麼樣私下講了之後就說因為那個女生呢他聽不太懂中文啊所以這個不是故意的不是故意的利益良善就過去了這一次事件發生之後才說那個女生才看不下去說希望重啟調查林佳龍部長才說好他願意重啟調查因為有心事證然後那個人呢他現在就離那個當時幫忙護航的人他現在也離職了"},{"start":17386.434,"end":17390.338,"text":"是確定有這件事情嗎所以如果我們今天沒有把這件事情都攤開來講的話你如果到時候確認沒有這件事情你當然大可以你發新聞稿也好你大聲疾呼也好你都可以還他一個公道但過去就是因為我們什麼事情對於公務人員的加害我們都是默默的把它偷偷給你一個公文然後呢就無聲無息了所以才有這麼多的公務人員的霸凌事件"},{"start":17410.757,"end":17414.442,"text":"現在有公務人員願意出來希望我們幫他發聲我所現在講的每一個案子喔包含我在外交部喔我講國教署喔講海科會喔包含速發部今天正次今天那個速發部的正次他公開道歉他就是有罵別人混蛋"},{"start":17428.98,"end":17453.042,"text":"所以我今天我所講的這些東西我都有先查證過所以你不要挑戰我說我今天沒有查證我就有人給我一個資料好像我就隨便拿出來講我都已經先分析過先了解過有沒有發生類似的事情委員我想向你表達的是我們要挑戰你這些案件我們都會進入程序來好好的面對跟調查跟處理"},{"start":17455.165,"end":17463.635,"text":"我其實在看到你們來你的辦公室來含公文的時候我也希望能不能夠因為你你辦公室給我能不能提供給我們更多人事實地務的資訊因為"},{"start":17467.219,"end":17494.52,"text":"我希望能夠有更多人事因為我們要好好調查其實是需要很多人事實地務的證據對啊我會再提供給你啊但是要在我今天質詢完畢之後啊對如果可以的話可以提供給我更多人事實地務的證據我們才能夠好好處理這件事情但我要說的還是是說我們在這些處理這些調查的過程裡面在真正調查出來結果前我知道你的意思但我必須要先把這件事公開之後我才能確保你不會吃案嘛因為我不敢相信任何一個部長了嘛"},{"start":17495.34,"end":17516.368,"text":"對吧,即便我跟你過去是在同一個委員會同事,我也不敢去相信公務人員不會再持案,所以我必須得今天先公開出來之後,我才敢把所有東西交給你,請你去調查,因為7天之後你給我什麼東西,我才能去評估你們到底有沒有好好調查呀因為你的辦公室的文,來到我的辦公室以後我也看過,我可以跟你說,絕對不會持案"},{"start":17517.523,"end":17535.224,"text":"我可以跟你 絕對不會刺案所以你現在只要告訴我說你要多久時間之內可以給我們一個答覆我們在這些資訊證據之下絕對不會刺案但我要跟局委員表達我們也需要更多的資訊因為我收到的訊息就像你你這上面呈現的這些內容"},{"start":17536.519,"end":17536.739,"text":"謝謝習委員 謝謝部長來繼續我們請劉喜廷"},{"start":17567.841,"end":17569.642,"text":"謝謝主席,紅部長有請部長午安,針對802我只問一件事,就剛剛講這麼多案例,顯然社會大眾對於行政端的內部調查還是缺乏信心,你支持國會用聽證調查的方式來處理這個事?"},{"start":17594.421,"end":17610.832,"text":"這是國會的...國會在這支援心法裡面行使的權益當然我們都尊重阿一樣你跟何前部長一樣就四個字尊重國會這樣嗎這個是你要不要積極配合這個是國會的權限阿是國會的權限如果成立你會不會積極配合就算國會不調查我們也會積極調查"},{"start":17612.581,"end":17629.918,"text":"這你調查跟我們調查不太一樣但我剛講就之所以公部門會這麼多人然後大家對行政調查害怕就是因為公部門內部有他的文化這我想您也擔任過立委其實溝通也都了解今天不管國會調查不調查或國會用什麼態度我們都會積極調查積極調查那我希望未來如果有機會你要配合國會調查可以嗎"},{"start":17631.138,"end":17656.081,"text":"就是按照按照法治法規來當行政部門當然該配合的就必須配合啊該配合繼續配合好這個你除了要處理這個霸凌的這個爛攤子之外你現在很多工作要做啊這個本席一直都非常關心勞工放假的問題啊這個稍早不管是民眾黨陳昭志委員或國民黨廖偉祥委員其實大家都有去提到您過去在綠盟的期間對於這個我們國家的放假政策多有指教這個包含這個"},{"start":17658.423,"end":17673.54,"text":"2016年10月25號在蠻蠻不錯的你說勞基法修法應該增加負載吃緊緊急假日就如果說空污很嚴重啊電廠要稅休的時候乾脆就大家來放假給勞工多放一天假然後還可以幫台灣省省電這是你2016年講過的2016年10月你講說7天假不應該跟週休日掛鉤啊"},{"start":17677.724,"end":17693.959,"text":"掛鉤是政黨的權力操作左手給右手拿應該要切開來不應該這樣處理2017年你評論勞基法二修修二說灌老闆在一例一休之外又得到了彈性工時的後門順手再砍掉7天的國定假日這樣就沒有申訴了灌老闆一家獨贏啊"},{"start":17695.475,"end":17711.79,"text":"那其他的我就不多再贅述齁包含到最近齁你代表民進黨那時候你還是副幹事長嘛齁代表民進黨出席這個五一勞工的遊行這個當台下高呼勞工團體跟這個協安勞工高呼還我七天假的時候你說把這個聲音帶回去現在也不用帶回去了應該很清楚了吧"},{"start":17712.33,"end":17730.098,"text":"接下來這個事你打算怎麼處理在勞工放假的部分你是要贊成我們把7天國定假日恢復回來這是一種還是你要用比如說勞基法修訂增加特休假也是一種或者是我剛剛舉例你都講了有所謂的這個負載吃緊假或者是剛剛有委員提到的所謂的身心調適假新增價別你要用哪一種方式來把這個"},{"start":17731.278,"end":17733.521,"text":"我當然支持讓勞工降低工時的負擔但確實現在關於期間假的討論這當然就涉及到國定假日調整的問題"},{"start":17747.239,"end":17767.375,"text":"但確實現在我要跟大家說 國定價值調整的問題現在是在今天節日實施辦法的法規裡面這其實是內政部主管的法規我們其實是內政委員會的委員我當然還先藉質詢的時間趕快問一下勞動部的態度因為這跟勞動權沒有關係我們當然願意把勞工的各種聲音反映給內政部各種聲音反映給內政部 所以你會怎麼反映給內政部"},{"start":17768.206,"end":17783.313,"text":"就是各種就只要是勞工勞方來的各種聲音或期待反映給內政部啊現在勞團大部分的勞基本上不分這個屬性啦大部分的勞團都主張恢復期間假你會把這樣的主張帶給內政部嗎該反映就反映啊該反映就反映一天都不少"},{"start":17784.654,"end":17804.388,"text":"就是該反映給內政部就讓大家知道說確實現在很多工會對這事情的看法是什麼該反映就反映啊該反映就反映你會不會幫忙堅持如果說其他部會有壓力經濟部有意見啊對不對或是其他人有意見然後要求你退卻的時候你會不會守穩勞動部長立場堅持站在這個這個法規目前的主管還是在內政部手上討論的平台我們把意見會反映給當然反映給專關主管的部會嗎這個有一點"},{"start":17811.073,"end":17829.261,"text":"算是勉強算是有回答啦但是跟這個你在民間毫無包袱的時代顯然有蠻巨大的落差我們希望看到的是2016年2017年的這個洪森漢副秘書長這樣子的態度你現在站在勞動部的部長的位置你就守好勞工的立場這是本席給你的期許這第一個第二個"},{"start":17830.381,"end":17851.572,"text":"這個前任部長何佩珊上任的時候我們討論勞保年金改革的問題那他們講說撥補也是改革政府本來就要負最終支付責任那當然嘛這是一個政策宣示那當然很多的勞工團體跟勞工朋友都非常關心這樣的事情那現在這個因為特殊的狀況何佩珊部長就因故去職了那新的你上任之後這樣子的一個政策方向會不會維持"},{"start":17853.032,"end":17871.715,"text":"請你給大家一個說法呃我想現在政策就是政府會負最終責任現在政策就是明確的就是會負最終責任吼現在的政策面就是政府是負最終的責任所以包括也是因為要政府負最終責任所以包括現在包括撥補等等等是去負這個責任的做法制這樣的方向不會改變對不對不會OK好謝謝好謝謝林委員那接續我們請戴思寶委員質詢"},{"start":17890.017,"end":17891.558,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長黃部長你好我請教一下是你接任部長是院長直接打給你還是老柯打給你"},{"start":17916.735,"end":17939.709,"text":"很難回答喔但是行政院為什麼是柯總召打 不會是柯總召 行政院 但是行政院邀請我打啊你是立法委員啊 欸這柯總召是民進黨團總召啊他是何沛山的老闆啊 他打給你也是很正常啊 甘甜的當然不是他打給我沒有 他沒有打給你他沒有打給我啊接的時候他沒有跟你講過話沒有啊"},{"start":17942.404,"end":17943.646,"text":"這個委員可以問柯總召"},{"start":17952.87,"end":17957.355,"text":"所以都沒有就對了奇怪這樣這麼重要你今天會做錯老實講就是柯建民給你很大的花費空間了花帕花種這樣種在地上不是出賣自己的靈魂拼到哭哭拼才有這個部長還不是這樣"},{"start":17976.615,"end":17996.573,"text":"當然有阿你這個出賣靈魂有名的阿三階就是最好的例子雖然你解釋什麼天然氣那叫歪理你明明是環保的運動人士阿結果三階要保護藻礁結果你又後調就是為了民進黨的黨意"},{"start":18000.756,"end":18007.624,"text":"這個人可以為了黨意出賣自己的靈魂一輩子就奮鬥你要還團這個東西你這樣子就會讓我們覺得說你做這個補丟就不可能期待太多了因為隨時都會出賣靈魂你講一下你不要在我頭你說你在我頭我怎麼知道你的意思那個"},{"start":18022.898,"end":18036.898,"text":"那我現在因為我現在身份我就覺得我已經我不是已經很適合去談什麼三接不三接我現在的身份不一定很適合去談這些問題但是你過了經理都要談了我們當然有有權利來來提出質疑啊"},{"start":18038.3,"end":18041.542,"text":"你知道嗎你知道嗎現在因為謝宜龍的事情讓執政黨不滿意度人家處理民調最新的民調今天的民調45.6%不滿意度"},{"start":18069.281,"end":18092.463,"text":"你下來面對兩個一個很大的問題第一個 霸凌的事情第二個 你的這個就業安定基金急軟又有個待機這兩個問題 我就第一個先問你喔霸凌的事情喔 我也去跟你們勞動部要資料啊 你們都不給啊好多立委都反應要資料都不給啊 然後你們的次長"},{"start":18094.284,"end":18095.365,"text":"為什麼立委要不到資料因為檢調"},{"start":18122.742,"end":18125.525,"text":"我跟跟賴委員說明吼跟賴委員說明吼現在在"},{"start":18131.799,"end":18156.488,"text":"現在在檢調確實有來調卷那檢調清楚讓我們知道說針對採購跟標案的部分希望我們暫緩內部的行政調查但霸凌的霸凌的事情的本身或不當管理的事情本身的話我們是可以我們是在做行政相關行政調查的那為什麼立委要不到資料我可能跟內委再確認一下是什麼樣的資料好不好"},{"start":18157.182,"end":18175.177,"text":"好幾個立委反映的都有不到資料但是我說要確認一下那個資料的標的是什麼但確實如果是跟820來這樣子好了齁你是來自於這個很走基層的啦齁環保的這個團體這樣奮鬥的來自於立委都是非常基層的你要不要因為你們現在調查都會關關相護大家擔心關關相護"},{"start":18182.663,"end":18187.656,"text":"就是上面一直壓底下來 今天就是官威相互啊才出了一個謝宜龍的事情啊你要不要公開承諾"},{"start":18191.823,"end":18218.345,"text":"你這段時間兩個禮拜以內你的信箱全部打開讓所有的人跟你分立在勞動部裡面跟你分立全部open給大家那個跟賴委員說明我其實在上任上週其實就已經提供給我們基層一個我專屬的信箱跟手機的號碼其實這幾天的時間一個多禮拜的時間裡面其實蠻多部內的同仁就跟我們反映過各種建議其實就有了"},{"start":18219.466,"end":18226.714,"text":"其實我就是希望要讓因為這有點在這個非常時期裡面在這非常時期裡面直接就可以讓我們你這個open的時間多長從上禮拜二準備維持多久"},{"start":18232.763,"end":18255.316,"text":"一直下去我覺得不要不需要什麼前面的就是比如說一個月或者兩個月以內我也收到很多人家跟你們控訴的資料只是我還在整理啊因為這些資料坦白說現在就是說這個方法我知道這是一個特別特別時期的做法這不是一個長久的機制"},{"start":18257.217,"end":18281.25,"text":"我們還是希望能夠把一個正常的機制趕快給優化給建立好我覺得這是這是正辦啦這是一個非常時期的維持一個月可以嗎其實不需要我自己覺得維持維持一個月OK啊就是就是OK一個月齁其實大家願意跟我們第二個第二個來來來現在大家懷疑高度殖利你的就業岸田基金我仔細的讀了一下讀了好幾遍了"},{"start":18282.761,"end":18289.408,"text":"這個包括許明春這個用他的這個錢去開演唱會啊這個奇奇怪怪的錢花了八千多萬啊你們沒有法則耶說濫用就業安定基金沒有法則"},{"start":18299.264,"end":18318.842,"text":"沒有罰者主事者就是勞動部長主席是勞動部長然後我翻篇了所有的辦法說被挪用了被不正當的使用了有沒有處罰沒有任何的處罰就變成你們的小金庫安安用力的擠去手伸進去拿你知道現在多少錢你知道嗎我知道多少錢你講一下多少錢"},{"start":18323.147,"end":18323.207,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":18339.704,"end":18364.864,"text":"那個跟賴委員說明齁現在在救援安定基金裡面其實有涉及到標案跟採購的部分檢調現在也在調閱我們會全力配合但是他違法不違法坦白說我們自己沒有辦法自己就說這是違法不違法這確實是需要有一定的司法單位來去做判定我們都會全力配合那我也說了只要有具體不法事證該送證封的該送檢調的我們都不會護短"},{"start":18369.628,"end":18388.929,"text":"這些包括上一任的部長那個人相關的只要有涉及到不法事項的該送你還不要在這個場合公開承諾你不會去動用他一毛錢可以嗎那個不是私人用你當然公家的不一樣私人去用他我私人絕對不會"},{"start":18391.107,"end":18414.715,"text":"不要用其他名譽去動他一毛錢包括買了動用他的錢去送禮幹什麼都不會用這個跟賴委員說明我在我們在上任的第二天其實就已經針對部內的這個不當的送禮文化其實跟基層說我們我們搞這個好了時間到了我很快的把其他的小問題問完了這個勞保年金啊我們撥補了兩千六百多兩千五百多億"},{"start":18416.058,"end":18417.882,"text":"明年還要撥1300億等於撥了3000多億快4000億了"},{"start":18422.725,"end":18447.663,"text":"我們的負債13兆每人的備債56萬這是勞保年金的改革好分工了我們可以下一頁你再當立委你有連署喔你剛才沒有回答牛委員的的一個問題我現在就希望你明確回答你支不支持勞保的財務政府負最終的責任現在的政策就是勞保的財務是政府來負最終責任現在政策就是"},{"start":18448.504,"end":18453.268,"text":"沒有立法喔沒有立法我希望你承諾嘛你提案就容易通過我們勞動部來推動立法好嗎"},{"start":18462.039,"end":18477.987,"text":"現在的政策就是不管有入法沒入法我現在勞動部的做法上面跟行政院我們就是用這個方向來執行我們的政策的不管有入法沒入法現在就是這樣做的最後一個小問題喔那個五一勞動節戰不戰成全國放假這個要你問啊要你回答啊你是勞動部的啊我問了人事長他說問你你說要問他我到底是誰"},{"start":18490.529,"end":18511.976,"text":"人事長人事長一共在跟你們協調這個五一勞動就關於國定假日的部分國定假日現在只有勞工放假其他人沒有放很不方便喔有些公務員都不放假的這個很多行業不放假的我們會來跟人事單位做一些討論你贊不贊成全體放假"},{"start":18512.841,"end":18514.262,"text":"因為這涉及到其他部會的權責所以我們願意跟他們來討論"},{"start":18536.304,"end":18561.99,"text":"讓人去做這是原來陳建仁院長前院長他答應我要從今年開始放棄結果今年沒有放又跳票老實講勞動部做得不夠啦這一部分勞動部出一點力這個造福台灣人民謝謝委員指教好謝謝賴委員謝謝部長那接續我們請葉元之委員質詢"},{"start":18567.585,"end":18570.027,"text":"麻煩請那個紅山部長謝謝議員好部長好我相信你看到那個救安基金被這樣濫用你自己可能也覺得非常不適當那中間可能也會有不法的問題剛剛看說您是會有不法會移送檢調對不對就是說如果有具體的不法事證什麼樣叫做不法的具體事證"},{"start":18592.605,"end":18618.278,"text":"就是說如果當然有很明確說是怎麼樣貪瀆的但是要貪瀆的嗎只涉於貪瀆是不是就是說具體的不法事證嗎對這是哪一類的到目前為止你的瞭解我們目前瞭解我們其實現在在做一些項目上面檢視是有看到不合宜的地方就不合宜我們我現在我們現在看到會有一些不合宜的地方對那如果許民村他挪用這個錢跑去開演唱會這有是不法還是不合宜"},{"start":18622.165,"end":18628.169,"text":"這邊會有一些可能是外界觀感問題或不合宜的問題可是是不是不法這件事情其實就像剛剛在講的這場音樂會這場音樂會目前檢調已經在查了"},{"start":18633.179,"end":18657.545,"text":"部長我這樣問是因為救安基金一開始設立目的應該是保障本國勞工穩定就業但主要的目標是這個當然還有其他目標那有很多弱勢的家庭包括重症患者其實他們去找他們請外籍看護去找這個救援基金他們其實我覺得也是不得已的因為家裡就有人有重症患者他必須要請外籍看護因為請本國的看護的話真的非常的貴"},{"start":18658.405,"end":18667.554,"text":"那在這種情況之下要他們去繳就業基金結果繳了之後被勞動部這樣濫用我覺得國人通通都不能夠接受啦那所以假設啦我們現在"},{"start":18669.115,"end":18691.925,"text":"讓這些所謂的重症患者如果他必須要請外籍看護繳救基金我們讓他們減免部長你支持嗎現在低收跟弱勢的家庭目前就是我知道我是針對比如說重度失能的因為他們其實家裡有重度失能的人其實我覺得也是對家庭來說也是一個很大的負擔"},{"start":18692.762,"end":18707.011,"text":"但是他們有繳就業基金結果被勞動部的高官拿去開演唱會啦拿去裝潢豪華辦公室我覺得社會沒辦法接受這樣的一個這樣的一個做法啦岳仁我覺得我們對哪些範疇這個範疇免繳就案訂金哪些範疇比較適合擴大這事情我們可以來討論是不是所以你認為這是可以討論的方向"},{"start":18715.256,"end":18739.165,"text":"我認為這是可以討論但是就是說到底範疇要開到多大那目前是弱勢跟中低目前我知道我們當然討論就是沒有開放的部分因為現在大家外界還發現救安基金是這樣被爛用嘛比如說拿去買咖啡拿去買信封拿去買影印紙拿去清垃圾這些本來勞動部你內部的公務預算就可以編列為什麼要用到救安基金呢跟議員說明"},{"start":18741.607,"end":18761.557,"text":"確實長期以來勞動部部本部的預算真的是偏低但你不能用到救安基金嘛所以很多過去長期以來就是變成是用救安基金在支應很多就不可以嘛你們勞動部如果預算不夠你要去爭取而不是用挪用救安基金這兩回事那其他部會也會覺得他的預算不夠啊他們就沒有這樣的一個基金可以挪用啊"},{"start":18762.177,"end":18785.549,"text":"委員我們待會會來跟你講你第一個我覺得不能這樣挪用第二個現在大家覺得這是一個黑箱因為以前大家都不知道一知道就炸鍋了你同不同意把這些細目公開就到底救安基金那麼多錢每一年幾百億到底用在哪些地方這些細目可不可以公開讓國人知道因為我們現在會是在機制面我們會來不是機制面我現在問說可不可以公開"},{"start":18786.63,"end":18812.103,"text":"可不可以公開因為現在政府要公開透明嘛你既然被人家質疑這麼誇張你公開一下部長其實我對你是很有期許的我覺得你會大刀過斧做一些不一樣的事情會政治革新你願不願意公開救安基金的細目現在在採購招標的網站上面其實一些資訊沒有那是有標案才有但是如果它是比如說輕垃圾這不可能有標案吧補助費也公開了比如買咖啡豆這不可能有公開吧"},{"start":18812.683,"end":18838.492,"text":"可不可以公開啦我們想要知道說你到底還買什麼嘛你們買抱枕啊有沒有買一些那個其他的東西啊因為我們會在機制面沒有不打關機制面的強化我們會提出一個強化的方案我問的是有能不能公開就回答我問題就好機制歸機制能不能夠公開因為像你那個咖啡豆你的信封影子這些在標案上是看不到的現在標案上面或補串上面其實都公開了沒有沒有沒有這些東西看不到這些東西看不到"},{"start":18839.272,"end":18866.809,"text":"你能不能夠把整個公開讓大家看一下嘛對你來說又沒有差又不是你在用你就答應公開讓大家看一下會怎麼樣議員我沒有我沒有遮掩的意思部長你公開一下現在就算有問題也不會摔到你頭上嘛議員我沒有要遮掩的意思好那你就公開一下因為大家其實已經有公開的部分我們其實就公開了那是有公開部分我們現在知道沒公開部分嘛沒公開部分才是大家最想知道有貓膩的嘛可不可以公開嘛就這件事情就好"},{"start":18867.691,"end":18882.309,"text":"各位,我不太懂為什麼不能公開部長?我不懂欸該公開的我們都會公開什麼叫該公開?該公開不公開也是你在決定啊因為我覺得重點是...你想要掩蓋就不公開啊你不想掩蓋就公開啊要有機制面的檢視啦好好好謝謝"},{"start":18884.554,"end":18885.034,"text":"好 謝謝葉委員 謝謝部長繼續我們請楊瓊英委員質詢"},{"start":18928.506,"end":18941.275,"text":"首先請問,霸凌案後現在大概是一個月了,到底我們現在的狀況是怎麼樣?因為我們看到這個一個月當中,很離譜的一件事情。"},{"start":18942.336,"end":18957.945,"text":"部長你知道嗎在你還沒有擔任部長你是立法委員的時候那一篇所謂的利益良善的那一篇這個目的良善的那一篇你認為適不適當他的檢討報告那篇檢討報告我們看過了嘛當然他不盡完善不盡完善他目前還在哪裡你知道嗎"},{"start":18970.482,"end":18984.134,"text":"這份報告當然不盡完善那我我們現在已經重啟調查請針對本席的提問你知道那一份報告在什麼地方可以再看到嗎他已經公開了對他公開了現在還在哪裡"},{"start":18985.169,"end":19009.556,"text":"在哪裡的意思是在你勞動部的官網但是他是全文公開的他早就全文公開了在你勞動部的官網仍舊維持目前你們要重新調查但是現在還在你的官網上你只要點了你就可以看到目的良善你這份報告你身為部長你認為這一份是不盡完善的嗎對 是"},{"start":19010.976,"end":19032.721,"text":"是不禁完善,好,不禁完善,現在還在你的官網上請問,被罵爆了之後呢,請問到底為什麼陳情的管道都失靈了呢?為什麼?因為你在當時擔任這個立法委員的時候,你也曾經有這個語言說,其實這個事情你早知道了"},{"start":19033.653,"end":19053.868,"text":"不是無姓公務員的事情我說的不是無姓公務員的事情我說的是謝義榮的不當的管理的傳聞你就已經早有傳聞嗎有傳聞我聽到有耳聞傳聞你看喔都是外圍知道喔當時的勞動部都不知道喔是"},{"start":19055.429,"end":19075.16,"text":"你勇於承認當時的勞動部不知道當時都是外圍知道為什麼這個政府會變成如此應該勞動部是勞工的靠山怎麼會如此怎麼會勞動部的長官變為慣老闆這樣的事件發生了這樣的憾事心很痛啊現在怎麼辦"},{"start":19076.38,"end":19095.995,"text":"所以我們現在在重新調查我們希望能夠更進一步的把事實還原把事情還原把事實還原然後也比較知道我們過去到底犯了什麼錯在了解犯了什麼錯的狀況下面才能夠提出改善的做法你說的希望知道以往犯了什麼錯因為以往大家針對這個事項都認為勞動部一開始就想要輕輕的放過"},{"start":19100.802,"end":19114.065,"text":"你會同意輕輕的放過嗎?當然不同意,絕對沒有這件事情。好,所以你重新調查。那調查的內容,因為上一份是失敗的調查,所以要請教,勞動部到底有沒有持案?有沒有持案?包庇的為師,大使是誰處理?"},{"start":19122.225,"end":19147.337,"text":"是誰決策都會納入這些的因子會納入在你的調查嗎因為本席在商議院的部長我已經提出但是我看不到所以我希望能夠在你有為的作為以上剛剛本席所說的你會納入在你的調查的因子內嗎請做說明跟姚委員說明吼現在調查報告的因為每一份報告還是會有它的範疇這個調查報告的範疇基本上我們會針對"},{"start":19152.557,"end":19153.697,"text":"這個就是重要的案子"},{"start":19168.513,"end":19196.317,"text":"所以你必須要去調查清楚所以剛剛本席具體建議的勞動部到底有沒有持案那包庇的為師到底是什麼那誰處理誰決策本席認為這些都必須納入你要調查的因子之內委員我們關於申訴管道過去失靈的部分我們現在正在做檢討本席所提問的這事項你贊不贊成要列入在你的"},{"start":19197.581,"end":19212.572,"text":"的範疇之內調查的因子之內因為我們不希望官官相負你現在不回答本席我希望你聽到能夠納入要問你一句話我們絕對不會吃案然後我們會非常非常切實的來調查你吃不吃案那是另外一個議題針對你現在是部長"},{"start":19215.234,"end":19230.093,"text":"要針對立委的提問這些事項本行希望能夠納入在你調查的範疇之內你才能夠真正的水落石出所以你剛剛告訴我你們絕對不會吃案那以往有沒有吃你要去調查"},{"start":19232.235,"end":19248.888,"text":"所以本席要請教就你看這個事件以往你是幾天前你是立法委員現在是部長你認為何佩珊到底有沒有關關相呼有沒有有沒有這個有沒有"},{"start":19252.472,"end":19276.102,"text":"這位委員我覺得我們從機制我們會比較從機制面來看待這事情你以前是立法委員阿你現在是部長你更有power有權力阿你要查明真相阿到底他有沒有有沒有觀觀相互如果機制設計的不妥當就容易出問題你現在解讀是他有包庇有觀觀相互機制設置不妥當可以這麼解讀嗎"},{"start":19277.625,"end":19279.366,"text":"我認為是不盡完善的"},{"start":19300.1,"end":19310.554,"text":"不禁完善就是有問題嘛所以你直接回答就在本期最後一個議題請教你您說的您上任之後您說要實施什麼實施尊嚴"},{"start":19312.318,"end":19315.58,"text":"會不會入法?在你當任部長你認為要不要入法?入法什麼?"},{"start":19341.226,"end":19348.401,"text":"你說的是哪一個標的入法哪一個就你剛問我什麼事情你認為這個霸凌事件要不要入法"},{"start":19349.605,"end":19368.209,"text":"你要讓他有尊嚴啊尊嚴的勞動這是核心價值因為我們現在在法規的修訂上面 職安法不足以你自己擔任過立法委員你現在是部長職安法不足以去保護所以在法的立場你會不會有討論的空間我們現在正在推動跟規劃防治職場霸凌的法制化"},{"start":19375.47,"end":19393.632,"text":"就是提高到母法的位階提高到法律的位階來處理這事情那請問你會不會開公聽會當然啊那請問大概多久時間因為勞工很希望能夠看到有所作為有所方向"},{"start":19395.272,"end":19423.279,"text":"因為有一個時間我們在版本我們其實剛才在前面的委員會裡面有講到說我希望能夠在下個會期能夠提出下個會期來提出相關的草案相關的草案就是為陸法好好的去做一個整體性的一個檢討因為我們現在看到比如說五億勞動錢到底要不要放假會不會是國定假日就像立法院一樣我們是廣義的公務人員但是我們的助理是勞工"},{"start":19424.284,"end":19442.813,"text":"那這個整個社會的氛圍怪怪的在運作上面他沒有效能所以你會不會考慮建議五一勞動節全面放假那個跟委員部長這些相關的討論我們當然都會跟其他的權責單位一起來討論我們都願意來討論都願意來討論你的立場"},{"start":19446.4,"end":19465.928,"text":"你的立場呢是朝方向因為這涉及到這個其他的權責單位所以我們都願意一起來討論當然所以你的立場也就是跟以往你說的要還原7天的國定假日那你目前的立場你現在是部長是不是你的立場還是一樣"},{"start":19467.168,"end":19490.812,"text":"跟當時你接受陳請你說你要把這個恢復七天假帶進行政這個行政以及地方部門我當時是說會把這樣的新生帶到行政部門裡面去那現在你是有行政部門之一你會不會要還原恢復這七天的這一個五天假日在降低勞工工時負擔上我當然支持支持齁好我們一起加油謝謝謝謝楊委員謝謝部長"},{"start":19495.92,"end":19514.827,"text":"接續委員請羅廷偉委員歡迎好 是不是有請召委 有請部長"},{"start":19521.809,"end":19548.434,"text":"委員好部長好部長請問一下你是局內人還是民演人還是賴清德派來的要清掃局戲的清道夫我們跑一波影看一下局內人民演人清道夫我眼睛開過刀眼睛開過刀針對問題回答嘛"},{"start":19551.687,"end":19576.792,"text":"我現在就是勞動部長我想我要告訴你你在這個過程當中你有很多的資料為什麼外界可以馬上知道有人說是因為勞動部裡面有很多的局系他們都會把相關的資料來讓我們外界知道但我要說的是外界都在放大關注你的一舉一動今天的專題報告扣掉封面三張A4"},{"start":19578.345,"end":19600.825,"text":"了無新意夫言了事上一份報告說遭受職場霸凌情勢的得向本部機關長官單位主管人事提出申訴跟通報今天的報告說完善了申訴制度申訴管道多元化明訂申訴電話傳真電子信箱專用信箱等申訴管道請問部長"},{"start":19601.886,"end":19630.769,"text":"我個人認為這些文字上沒有什麼太大的差異就這幾天來說我看到你最大的政策就是公佈了你的電話就這樣而已所以請問我們部長上任第10天你是馬上被官僚的系統說服了嗎?針對政府部門霸凌案卓院長態度非常強硬好人他在做說一個禮拜"},{"start":19631.894,"end":19647.443,"text":"再給你多一個禮拜就是今天今天所有的委員都在說好聽話他在講真正做不出來又是一回事到底是他講好聽話敷衍人民還是你的能力有問題"},{"start":19648.834,"end":19673.239,"text":"到底誰要道歉我相信我都有看你也有加碼去邀請一些人來做一個訪問我都知道可是我的意思是說卓院長對外公佈講的這麼好聽一個禮拜處理我們引頸期盼結果換來的是又一個禮拜好因為你上任可以體諒"},{"start":19674.895,"end":19687.362,"text":"再給你一個禮拜現在又不行又要下個禮拜下個禮拜是禮拜一還是禮拜五我們下禮拜公佈我也希望盡快下個禮拜是禮拜一還是禮拜五我們也希望盡快那可不可以禮拜一"},{"start":19692.8,"end":19704.855,"text":"所以我要講的是每一個文字自治都要到重點而不是卓院長講的很好聽我們引起期盼結果現在做不到所以現在是卓院長要道歉還是你要道歉"},{"start":19707.267,"end":19735.709,"text":"那個羅永我們現在的工作就是把這個調查希望盡力的部長今天來到未完委員會我們是來專案報告不是來聽你講鬼故事的今天我們大家都知道也有昭之委員也有提到你之前在所謂的鬼故事在政論節目有提到你跟誰反映你也不願意去公佈你跟誰反映到現在你還不願意說出嗎當時你所謂的聽到鬼故事"},{"start":19737.631,"end":19762.122,"text":"沈大豪問你你跟誰反應你就說勞動部的高層到今天我想問的是縱容而且默許甚至沒有作為我先不提到你當你反應到了這些人當中他們沒有作為沒有去及時的反應處理這件事情這些人你還不公佈所以我再一次問你在政論節目你所提到的你有向上反應鬼故事那個人是誰"},{"start":19763.629,"end":19776.881,"text":"我向勞動部反映你還是講勞動部嘛你不講人民嘛勞動部就是一個機關這個機關有什麼人你不願意講這就是官官相護嘛這就是官僚嘛才10天我們見義勇為紅委員不見了變官僚體系的紅部長這就是東扯西扯"},{"start":19789.577,"end":19813.872,"text":"所以你到底是紅委員還是紅部長今天在我們這邊備詢的是紅部長還是紅委員民眾心中自有一把尺所以不要一直在那邊東扯西扯沒有行政權也給你行政權了現在你還調查不出來好給你加碼時間問你一些細節你不願意說我要再一次提醒部長你坐在這裡你是紅部長了"},{"start":19814.861,"end":19843.599,"text":"不是紅委員整個勞動部歸你管現在都有行政權還查不出來或者是還不願意透露細節讓全民知道當部長就是一個很好的照妖鏡走過的路一路一路都會幫你檢視出來第二個我要跟你探討一件事紅部長院長對你這麼器重想請問一下你知道救安基金的用途有哪些嗎我相信有其他的委員都問過你了你可以講大概幾項嗎"},{"start":19845.407,"end":19847.268,"text":"可以看到今天我們大家都在琢磨就業安定基金"},{"start":19875.427,"end":19886.925,"text":"用在裝潢用在一些狗屁刀招的事情花了人民的納稅錢這是我們現在最生氣的一件事情請問聽許明春唱歌是提升勞工福祉嗎?部長你覺得是嗎?"},{"start":19891.971,"end":19919.33,"text":"那個跟更多人報告齁其實現在在救安基金的支用的的機制我知道你會說合宜合法沒關係我都可以我都聽過了但是我現在講是民眾觀感不佳就是部分有部分的橋段我不管合不合宜啊當列舉出來就業安定基金民眾的大觀感就是覺得他是應該使用在勞工福利"},{"start":19920.831,"end":19942.549,"text":"但我們聽許明春唱歌可以提供勞工福祉嗎?你直接告訴我可以跟不可以你覺得還有讓勞工提升福祉嗎?有讓外界觀感不佳的地方我當然會檢討這就是我們要的答案所以我們不要東扯西扯就直接就問題來回答那再來我問你外籍移工被遣返"},{"start":19944.459,"end":19952.064,"text":"從1月到現在所支出的就業安定基金的費用、機票費給這些外籍移工遣返的費用累積到多少錢了?詳細的數字我們可能還跟業務單位確認到現在還在業務單位確認就業安定基金今天一整天都在考這一題現在問你一個數字你們還不知道還沒有人上來救啊隨便google查一下"},{"start":19974.878,"end":19981.306,"text":"移工、機票、就業安定基金一到十月媒體報導說三千多萬"},{"start":19984.434,"end":20011.121,"text":"我先問一下部長,你知不知道就業安定基金被挪用作為移工遣返的機票費用?呃,各位報告,因為這其實涉及整體用移工管理的事務在法定上面移工管理的事務是可以致用的我當然知道,又是合宜不合宜嗎?觀感不佳而已啊但是我現在的問題是移民署現在抓到的這些移工移民署現在用救福法60條來跟你講"},{"start":20014.836,"end":20042.232,"text":"說你要來買單那你變公務預算啊你為什麼用就業安定基金那個因為我們救福法裡面其實就有說勞工移工管理相關的事務那你就應該編列公務預算正常之印我支持你我沒有說不行但是不要用在就業安定基金因為人民的觀感真的很不好我們應該要跟現在你有行政權你應該要反映行政院"},{"start":20043.41,"end":20056.168,"text":"移工遣返的問題已經越來越大宗甚至有的因為時間快到了他已經沒有居留權他現在有很多人就直接檢舉他買機票不用擔心因為政府會幫他出所以就有所謂的開始檢舉的這個亂象"},{"start":20061.758,"end":20086.462,"text":"我支持抓移工違法的移工但是我現在問題是用就業安定基金不斷的支出我剛剛問你1到10月3000多萬就業安定基金來支應所謂的移工機票遣返你覺得合理嗎?那個 羅遠其實在救福法的60條裡面就有講到說這個移工遣返由就業安定基金先行墊付那你有還他錢了嗎?墊付以後要不要再還他錢?"},{"start":20092.321,"end":20096.623,"text":"先行店鋪有沒有要還就業安定基金這是重點啊所以我要講的是"},{"start":20107.529,"end":20123.36,"text":"不管是電付不管是資印你如果是資印你也確定要用資印你把它排公務預算我支持你去修法你用就業安定基金今天我點出的問題你不要告訴我法將定民眾觀感能接受嗎而現在亂象出來了我們不用修法嗎"},{"start":20124.201,"end":20133.144,"text":"我剛剛有提到他用救福法60條我都知道他用救福法60條但我要講的是民眾觀感不佳我跟部長講那我點出問題您願不願意回去討論有可能要又來修法嗎這不是我的手機"},{"start":20142.708,"end":20169.097,"text":"我們的行政部門現在確實必須是按照救福法60條裡面來去做執行我懂但是民眾觀感不佳媒體報導出來以後直接給你下一個大標說就業安定基金使用在這個上面上全民都覺得很憤慨要修法要去改變這就是你要改革我們要你來當紅部長就是希望你有所突破啊所以今天我提出這個問題我剛剛一開始就開宗明義講移民署直接用救福法60條"},{"start":20171.598,"end":20188.172,"text":"他用的是合法我沒有說不合法但是合不合宜民眾官板加不加這是我們要後續要探討的一個問題所以我想各部會用救安基金一直挖錢出去一直搬出去給各部會用部長為什麼勞動部要一直給面子給各部會"},{"start":20190.009,"end":20218.635,"text":"就像你說的他寫在了就業服務法第60條電付我現在還要追你你有沒有回去還這一筆錢所以我希望今天各部會都很關心各個委員都很關心就業安定基金我希望就業安定基金真的不要再變成小金庫我也期許勞動部長就業安定基金的錢我們很關注還有所有的私人家庭也請我要再一次跟你轉達"},{"start":20219.835,"end":20247.426,"text":"他們希望看到你能夠為失能者家庭一起發聲你們在當紅委員的過程當中為外勞的人權我尊重但是他們也擔心一昧的只幫外勞說話沒有去照顧到本勞以及所謂的失能者家庭這個平衡點能不能重新拿捏我並不是只支持外勞移工我是支持勞工"},{"start":20248.326,"end":20248.867,"text":"最後我還有一個問題想請問你"},{"start":20272.35,"end":20276.492,"text":"目前勞動部目前對於現在的這個併購的方案目前拿出來的併購的方案我們當然現在還"},{"start":20304.185,"end":20315.612,"text":"可不可以更直接開宗明義的講支持或不支持這樣就好我做結尾我們目前是反對的謝謝你謝謝謝謝羅廷慧委員謝謝部長繼續我們請張祺凱委員歡迎"},{"start":20336.22,"end":20338,"text":"希望今天不是震撼教育不過我看你的報告真的除了封面之外"},{"start":20355.782,"end":20367.782,"text":"薄薄三章本來以為今天會有大刀寇武的有點小失望而且更重要的我剛聽你說你說那個一些相關的這個法案的這個修改跟提出來要等到下會期啊"},{"start":20369.002,"end":20388.281,"text":"為什麼那麼久?這左院長不是就講說上個禮拜就講說一個禮拜內霸凌案子各部都處理完嗎?最後延一個禮拜啊已經太慢了啊欸現在緩霸凌已經變成風起雲湧變成一個運動沒有看見各個部會那麼多這個霸凌案是不是要再快一點點?現在火燒眉毛了可以等到你下會期再提法案嗎?"},{"start":20388.601,"end":20416.82,"text":"那個跟委員說明確實現在在霸凌防治的法規上面是不足的但這部分我們其實並沒有任何拖延禮拜一我們的治安署其實已經邀請相關的專家學者來提供意見我們現在會診中但確實這部法要修尤其是要在母法要定它其實涉及到蠻複雜的修法工程尤其是裡面相關的定義尤其是霸凌樣態的定義上面這事情"},{"start":20418.058,"end":20440.643,"text":"需要我們會積極但要很審慎而且下會期不要偷到不是什麼2月1號開始的會期我們絕對會很積極我也是善意提醒因為過幾天你再過段時間再來大家還是問你嘛因為外界的氣氛很大這個時間點要經得起考驗那我現在提醒你的現在在各個立法委員都接到很多啊你看各個部會裡面都有大家都在講"},{"start":20442.352,"end":20471.172,"text":"因為沉默以前很多人沉默了沉默變成常態所以霸凌就變成這種文化了現在已經大道寇要趕快改我最近接到很多案子我問一個比較重要的樣態今天我特別要提醒的就是我們的女性特別是懷孕的女性我接到一個我們政府機關的一個個案他在懷孕准媽媽結果那段時間疫情連要在家裡面連要在家裡面居家上班都被他的主管刁難了"},{"start":20473.462,"end":20487.752,"text":"部長我今天能不能非常明確的從你這邊得到一個答案你看一下不是只有單獨這個個案你看104人力營覽最近公佈的10月份職場姓北友善調查發現61.9的女性受訪者"},{"start":20488.573,"end":20510.207,"text":"他說 最近這一年 公司最近這一年因為性別而受到不平等待遇超過有五成認為有什麼升遷的問題懷孕的問題結婚育兒的問題連要請個特別休假的這個問題都受到不公平的待遇我覺得你們很明確的對你做一個要求勞動部對於女性在職場受到不公平待遇特別是"},{"start":20511.243,"end":20520.114,"text":"有身孕的女性請假問題還有她公平的這個問題你做出一個比較明確的指引跟規範可不可以那個跟跟文說明齁"},{"start":20521.403,"end":20547.6,"text":"其實你現在講的是就業歧視的部分其實就業歧視的部分其實我們有相關的法規那只要市政很明確該開法的我想我們就會來處理所以就這個個案剛剛來檢舉這個個案可能最近就有可能開法了那現在更重要我們從制度面去解決問題所以部長我今天就提醒你針對這個除了法令的這個落實之外要盡量重視這個問題好不好當然來另外我問你剛剛這個救安基金啊"},{"start":20548.977,"end":20572.467,"text":"變成小金庫這個問題你剛剛已經回答過你說他有主要用個三個用途嗎對不對在就法裡面三個用途那現在很多今天很多立委都問你了飲餐會不符合買咖啡都不符合垃圾清印也不符合你現在該做什麼動作你這好像回答了一句社會觀感不佳你是不是應該回去看一下預算法預算法25條跟95條如果預算項目不對"},{"start":20578.649,"end":20588.058,"text":"你亂去挪用這個錢是應該去追回來的吧對不對而且老實講你現在不是有社會觀感不佳你這筆錢老不然連審計部都過不了"},{"start":20591.203,"end":20609.253,"text":"那個跟委員報告齁其實這部分目前檢調已經有相關的在查查了那我們會全力的配合那確實現在在名目上面如果其實有不符合的地方當然如果查包括政風的那種我們絕對不會護短"},{"start":20610.994,"end":20638.778,"text":"所以現在兩個大的問題嘛一個是有人去檢取了他已經進入有沒有貪污秩序條例的問題沒有兩個問題一個當然如果是檢方那邊調查司法體系有沒有貪污秩序條例這本來就是要辦的嘛第二個更重要的是你這一邊啊你已經發現他社會觀感不佳的同時他的項目又嚴重的這個不對那你有責任去把他追回來啊不是就講一個社會觀感不佳案預算法的規定裡面25跟95條你有責任啊"},{"start":20639.724,"end":20645.117,"text":"委員我要先提醒部長你回答之前我跟你講你這筆預算是有可能審計單位根本就過不了的案子對不對"},{"start":20647.233,"end":20674.041,"text":"有可能啊 審計單位敢合這個完全違反預算法的錢嗎所以你是不是有責任一個不只以後不能再發生包括被濫用的這個不合規定的應該去把這筆錢追回來啊委員我們會在名目上面去做一個完整的檢視不只檢視啦你自己去追當然要該採取什麼法律上面的工作我們當然就會做我跟委員說在接下來在檢視救安基金這件事情上面我沒有"},{"start":20676.002,"end":20681.687,"text":"該怎麼該就該對啦你不要直接講說該怎麼說對啦包括要不要去追這是不是其中的一項"},{"start":20684.203,"end":20709.189,"text":"這筆錢不能夠只有欸如果有法規授權我們去有法規法規授權我們去追的話當然我們就要該去追啊主計單位財主單位都可以但是前提是先要要先確認他是否有不法嘛但是確認不法是已經到了貪汙的狀況了嘛那預算項目預算法裡面是另外的規定啊所以他是雙軌都要做那個因為現在其實很多相關的計畫他確實我們看到他確實有走走過"},{"start":20710.589,"end":20737.897,"text":"就案令基金撥付的程序他有走過這個程序所以如果要去認定他不法或該被追回也會有相關的法定的程序這不是我一念之間或者是任何首長一念之間說我覺得這不妥我就可以追回的他經過了他的法定的程序所以這時候司法單位有沒有認定他不法或者是有問題這也是這裡面很重要的判準"},{"start":20739.299,"end":20766.806,"text":"這不是我能夠一念之間說我喜歡怎樣我不喜歡怎樣我就可以說我去把你給追回了現在司法單位認定了就是當然有人去檢舉包括鍾小平去檢舉了習明春或是某些人嘛對不對所以司法單位已經在查我知道你剛剛講的如果是涉及到貪汙自罪條例那一塊的當然後來一定錢人要去追嘛還有這刑事上的責任嘛另外預算法上面明定了你過不過得了審計單位跟處計單位那一關包括錢人要去追你回去要再研究一下好不好就這兩個事情很重要不要只有講社會觀感不佳第二個"},{"start":20767.895,"end":20796.224,"text":"還有一個很重要的立法的部分你剛提說下會期提了你是要立一個專法是不是現在其實各界有可能有提到有人提專法有人提專章有各種不同的修現在有不同的修法的路徑我們現在我是持開放態度但是每一種做法有他的優缺點所以現在也在綜合評估中那現有的像吹哨者保護法你支不支持這不是我主管的吧"},{"start":20796.96,"end":20811.6,"text":"不是 我說你個人是不支持吹哨者保護法你以前在立法院應該是暫省的對不對你現在當了勞動部部長欸吹哨者保護法跟你很相關啊如果謝怡芬這個事謝怡榮這個事情如果之前有一個消費者保護法就不會搞到出人命啊對不對"},{"start":20812.864,"end":20827.183,"text":"被霸凌者吹哨者有受到一定的這個保護很多霸凌事件就沒有了因為我現在的身份是勞動部長那我會就我的職權跟職責裡面的工作我來負責任的回答黃副長"},{"start":20828.184,"end":20855.509,"text":"對於勞工可能會被霸凌對於你勞動部的人有可能像那位吳先生被霸凌你是不是應該就要支持催照者保護法因為霸凌法制上面的不健全所以我們當然現在在霸凌防治的法制的話我們會積極的來做沒有衝突啊你要去遞專章跟專法可是這個是一個很重要的法律但是這是我主責下面的工作我說我現在不太方便去對其他不方便哪一個勞動部部長不支持催照者要被保護"},{"start":20856.837,"end":20876.911,"text":"不是只有存在著保護法你要去重視你要去支持法令還多嘞包括考試院跟人事總局那個公務員那個保障法的修法你也要支持啊要不然你的你的保障部的員工有受到有受到這個保障嗎升遷法啊這個主管以前都不用接受考核的啊以後升遷法裡面也要訂啊是不是這樣"},{"start":20879.7,"end":20904.677,"text":"我現在勞動部部長在針對我的職權內的事情我可以來做負責任的回應啦那個黃部長這就是你的職權啦全世界的民主國家的勞動部的部長哪一個不保障我們的吹哨者不保護我們公務員這本來就是要集齊啊不是那個我尊重委員的想法但是你現在就勞基法"},{"start":20906.053,"end":20918.246,"text":"跟委員報告老七法跟慈安法目前對於檢舉人的部分都已經有相關的申訴保障制度那如果有一些迫害的部分的話都也有處罰的機制目前是有的現行機制如果夠的話"},{"start":20920.046,"end":20938.553,"text":"那謝宜蓉這個勞業總這事情不幸會發生為什麼現在職場有那麼多各個部會像宇鶴春巡 風琴 尹永這麼多案子當然是要去補破網 要去補牆啊黃部長我提醒你一個點好不好是現在我在跟你談的是一個有沒有要保障所有的勞動部的員工各部會還有這個勞工的勞動部部長"},{"start":20943.015,"end":20966.329,"text":"今天你今天你有沒有沒有點這個頭現在人民是在看這個新任的勞動部長是有重視人權嗎有反霸凌嗎那個張榮跟張榮說明對於一般的勞工這當然是我們主責的對象我們當然盡力的來保護對於勞動部下的公務員我們也會盡力來保護這部分我可以"},{"start":20967.352,"end":20993.331,"text":"表達我的態度是非常清楚的我很期待新任的這個勞動部長是有擔當而且是重視大家權利的他要全力透過所有的法令跟制度面去避免所有霸凌在發生的這個是我問你的一個重點當然這是我們的期待我最後再問不只是專法跟法律面要去強化包括催少者保護法公務員公務員這個催少者保護法公務員保護法跟升遷法還有你管的所有跟你勞動有關的這個法令另外一個"},{"start":20994.537,"end":21021.325,"text":"你到製度面去解決這個問題你沒有發現現在由單位去調查現在看起來好像是撐過鐵油的東西他出現幾個問題嘛利益衝突跟偏袒問題專業性也不夠調查過程這個透明度是低的政績收集也是不足的忽視了受害者這個需求很多都處理時間是非常強的後續跟進也不足單位文化又有問題最終還有後面這個吹哨者常常身份都被曝光了"},{"start":21022.225,"end":21050.402,"text":"所以我今天提了四個具體的這個要求來我們看這四個部長你應該似曾相識這個我們一起去修這個電內法的時候很像對不對怎麼樣讓內部的這個內部原單位的調查不要讓那個吹哨者或是霸凌者的身份會去曝光然後這個外部的人員要怎麼進來讓他是專業的我至少提了四個要求來讓他們看看第一個以後不只是勞動部喔所有部會是不是要做這些事情以後"},{"start":21052.1,"end":21065.526,"text":"規定外部的專家比例要大於二分之一不要自己人調查自己人右手查左手查出來老是利益良善外部的專家比例要大於二分之一第二個審查紀錄要能夠公開透明讓受害者"},{"start":21069.668,"end":21085.913,"text":"能夠檢視第三個對於催債者的保護要更完善絕對不能讓他的身份外洩第四個要制定一個專章來規範職業這個職場霸凌的防患機制你同意這四點嗎作為一個作為一個制度面的一個委員你剛才講這點針對就是說這個"},{"start":21088.851,"end":21103.548,"text":"如果有職場霸凌的調查要怎麼讓他的專業更加專業化這當然我同意這個方向那第4點講到說會來規範職場霸凌的防治方式這是我們現在在做法制化的工作"},{"start":21104.867,"end":21133.002,"text":"那這個這個審查的進度要公出來的就是第4項我們已經有共識了你要專法或是專章了嘛第一項呢外部的這個專家比例要大於二分之一我跟你講何佩珊何部長那時候打的電話因為我在臉書上面發生這個事情第一時間我就發了新聞跟臉書我說你外部的委員一定要多找一些你不要讓人家覺得說你自己人在查自己那後來調查當然出了兩個問題就是外部的這個外部的這個專家人數太少"},{"start":21133.482,"end":21134.642,"text":"這個跟文說明在我們都應該要讓這個調查的過程裡面更加專業"},{"start":21157.35,"end":21179.171,"text":"當然我認為都應該要有外部的專家可是確實這個專家比例要到多少現在其實很多很多的公務機關裡面現在坦白說都面對他們現在都要找外部專家找不到的問題就是現在你答應你那個你說原來那個調查報告有問題對不對你下禮拜要拿來你現在調查的這個外部專家比例是多少"},{"start":21180.526,"end":21205.647,"text":"你不會搞到搞到沒有公信力吧?尤其是關關相互吧?當然我們不會關關相互你現在外部的專家有幾個?你現在下禮拜拿來的你最新的調查你外部專家有幾個?我們那個跟委員說明我們有外部委員的參與啦然後這個我們絕對不會關關相互有啊上次何佩珊主導的你們上次那個被你認為有問題的就是也有外部委員只是人太少啊"},{"start":21206.357,"end":21209.981,"text":"以後能不能建立一個制度以後就是外部的專家比例大概二分之一"},{"start":21228.9,"end":21247.459,"text":"欸這個你有沒有覺得似曾相識這個是前陣子你還當立委的時候我們兩個共同修法的方向啊那時候電內法你不是贊成的嗎你說電內法要有外部專家啊民間的代表二分之一欸我們等於所通過的咧張委員因為你現在到了勞動從立委變成勞動部長反而倒退路喔張委員因為電價審議委員全台灣只有一個電價審議委員會啦"},{"start":21249.381,"end":21257.887,"text":"但是現在我們要來成立各個調查小組這個是每個單位都要成立調查小組他的狀態跟全台灣只有一個電價審議委員會這真的是不一樣"},{"start":21260.919,"end":21278.817,"text":"我們會盡力讓他更專業啦你今天意思說倒退嚕還是怎樣立委的時候都比較立委的主張現在當了當了部長反了倒退嚕我們討論的狀況你是太謹慎嗎還是我們討論的狀況那個是真的是全當時我們修法的時候是全台灣只有一個電價生意委員會"},{"start":21280.629,"end":21295.065,"text":"剩兩分只有一個部長這應該放出四孩皆准的吧就是不要避免自己人查自己人觀光項目就是外面大家可以慶福的專家學者進來外部有人進來二分之一這個有什麼困難這個有爭議喔你剛剛意思是什麼找不到人"},{"start":21296.294,"end":21314.953,"text":"你是否定否定否定要有多一點學者專家還是我沒有否定我沒有要否定但是現在各單位其實現在都面現在我至少我聽聞到很多公務機關因為現在都要成立調查小組那這個這個這個安全防護小組裡面都在找外部專家所以他"},{"start":21316.583,"end":21335.694,"text":"等於別人找不到你自己勞動部現在火燒沒頭了你自己先顧好自己二分之一吧你現在會不會下禮拜提出來真的沒有二分之一好第二個地方來來來二分之一你今天不點頭然後講全民會有會有一個會有一個評論的喔部長你今天回答這問題都是很重要的我認為媒體跟全民會去檢視說我們的勞動部長說"},{"start":21337.995,"end":21338.735,"text":"我們當然會公布最後調查報告的結果"},{"start":21367.244,"end":21370.006,"text":"委員我要向你表達說這個事情的調查真的跟電業跟電價審議是不太一樣的這裡面涉及到很多人的隱私"},{"start":21394.42,"end":21396.981,"text":"那這些強調我們要強調一個保障我只是要跟你強調說"},{"start":21410.488,"end":21437.171,"text":"這個相關的霸凌的調查真的跟這個電價審議是很不一樣的狀況非常重要啦兩個都非常重要就這次你們發生這個事情不要說一個部長下台了一條人命你這次的審查過程裡面能夠不公開透明嗎不能夠快一點公布給大家看嗎我看前面都盯著你啊部長是不是這樣你下禮拜來報告那個如果又有問題的話搞不好又換掉一個部長"},{"start":21437.771,"end":21438.132,"text":"報告當然會上網阿"},{"start":21449.275,"end":21452.817,"text":"希望下禮拜不是火越燒越大是止血而且讓我們反霸凌進入一個新的里程碑好不好共同來捍衛我們讓我們所有的"},{"start":21476.508,"end":21485.51,"text":"支援所有的勞工都受到這個安全有尊嚴的工作,好,就這樣報定,謝謝那接下來我們請黃建豪委員質詢好,謝謝主席,我們請勞動部紅部長"},{"start":21512.069,"end":21536.112,"text":"黃偉好部長好部長這個換了身份今天第4以部長的身份以委員跟部長身份來質詢部長我想先就教一件事情上禮拜傳出一個消息你一直認為說是禮拜一要來排這個專報是誰給你的消息不是我當時是認為我當時是覺得這禮拜我就要來所以其實我應該要在"},{"start":21537.912,"end":21552.463,"text":"週末就對於大家各呃週末前就應該對業務報告對各當各司俗的業務有一個進一步的掌握好部長謝謝哦因為我一開始一誤以為你認為是禮拜一了那我要提醒你說如果有人跟你講禮拜一的話他傳遞了錯誤的消息"},{"start":21553.163,"end":21568.671,"text":"好那你當剛剛上任部長我也希望說你能得到正確的消息不要被蒙蔽啊所以說才特別提這個問題那既然是你自己自發性的覺得要提早準備好那我就沒有意見了好那我們進到主題那其實今天很多委員關心的是我們所謂的就業安利基金的部分"},{"start":21569.411,"end":21587.961,"text":"請6檔"},{"start":21592.076,"end":21595.257,"text":"跟委員報告我們在105年到113年總共墊付了4億3000萬元那目前歸墊的是5827萬元一成大約一成"},{"start":21605.905,"end":21630.196,"text":"所以這顛覆的比例很低嘛所以我們就講說今天就業安定基金我們之所以它叫基金你當過委員很清楚我們在看預算的時候基金的目的不就是能夠有進有出才叫基金嗎如果一直付出去那就是供付預算了吧所以問一下部長我先想請教一下部長說我們還是講當然第一時間必須用就業安定基金來顛覆這個我沒有意見但是問題是後續你的基金一直在付給這種事情一直在"},{"start":21630.956,"end":21655.385,"text":"只要有人擺爛付不出罰款付不出機票然後我們就用救安定基金來讓他回國讓他回去那這沒辦法解決這個問題啊那我知道之前大概105年2015年的時候2015年左右的時候有提過說要去跟所謂的母國就是移工的母國來追討但是後續也不了了之我想問一下西部長上來之後對於這種救安定基金的虧損問題你們有沒有辦法解決"},{"start":21659.177,"end":21659.798,"text":"這個會有一個代帳處理的程序"},{"start":21681.299,"end":21710.399,"text":"跟委員報告那我想那個捐安定費捐安定金之間支出的墊付的款項那後面如果沒有辦法收回的話我們按照行政程序去執行呢最後也會抵抵的代償先部長來我想要提出一些思考啦如果這些移工他就是付不出錢或他就是不願意付的話應該有什麼樣的代償機制吧他們要怎麼樣去做這件事情就像那個working holiday一樣嘛"},{"start":21711.52,"end":21727.939,"text":"他不付這個罰款那是不是他能夠派工給他幫忙政府做一些比較基本的工作做完之後再讓他回去後來這錢就一直這樣子吃下去那個跟委員報告因為其實現在其實我們這都是按照舊法60條來做執行"},{"start":21730.592,"end":21746.364,"text":"那這個有他的法規要求的有他法規要求的程序所以我們現在只能按照這個舊法60來好沒關係部長我是提供這個建議給你參考不然從以前到現在這個錢就越花越多然後就是這樣子沒完沒倒下去我覺得這不是一個辦法了"},{"start":21747.105,"end":21770.717,"text":"那再回到救安利基金大家今天不斷的質詢說為什麼可以拿去買咖啡機為什麼可以去買垃圾桶為什麼可以拿去打掃當然依照你們的第一條裡面是促進國民就業提供理事勞工扶持跟處理外國人騙雇的相關管理事務嘛這是他們救安基金的你們的核心的價值核心的目的支用上面支用上面這樣子那第五條裡面的用途有一項叫做管理及總務支出我猜想啦"},{"start":21771.684,"end":21799.414,"text":"咖啡機購買一些打掃用品垃圾等等的這些東西是不是就是使用這個管理局總務之處跟委員報告因為這些所訂的不管是職業訓練就業服務創業協助等等他都是一個對民眾的直接服務而這些直接服務必須要有行政管理才能夠讓這些服務能夠得以遂行所以他是在所謂的相關的範圍概念之內"},{"start":21800.802,"end":21821.167,"text":"所以是在管理總共支出支出這個項目在你們的在你們報帳的時候你們去申請的時候你們是用哪一條項目來去報所謂的咖啡機也好或是打掃用品也好這些被媒體寫出來的這些奇奇怪怪的這些支出就因為救安基金當初收的目的就是希望能夠所謂保障本國勞工或讓本國勞工的職能能夠提升嘛"},{"start":21821.647,"end":21840.314,"text":"他的當初目的是這樣嘛但是後來變成使用上跑去用看起來是比較享受的事情那這跟一開始的這個支出辦法就很大的落差啦所以今天講說特別把11條指出來就是說我要問一下部長也問一下你們部內如果真的要做這個改革你們可以把這個拿掉啊"},{"start":21841.687,"end":21861.569,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分如果拿掉的話變成我們所有的原來在這裡面包括為了維持包括訓練場或者是就業服務據點這個部分連這基本的營運維持我們都沒有辦法從救安基金來支的話那除非我們可以爭取的到公務預算否則在廣義的認定他還是在促進國民就業裡面的一部分"},{"start":21862.423,"end":21879.544,"text":"如果他在處理國民就業如果因為處理國民就業我需要喝咖啡那你就會報在那個相關項目裡面嗎那就可以用用這個所謂的所謂的管理及總務職出來報啦我們有不合宜我們也承認阿但是不是所有的包括我們的這些建設都是那個不合宜這部分要上線跟委員說明齁確實"},{"start":21881.306,"end":21900.78,"text":"就是說他其實相關的程序他有走過相關的程序但就像剛才說到說其實可能會有些訓練場他會有他的行政支出費用那這個訓練場的目的當然是促進國民就業所以這裡面的行政的費用他會用這個方式去報進來主要的原因是在這個地方"},{"start":21902.25,"end":21923.264,"text":"好,所以部長意思是說這個東西你們認為這個所謂的管理及總務支出並沒有拿掉的必要性就對了?就法規面來說,因為現在真的會有蠻多的支出,但我就是說合不合以社會觀感好不好,我們會來檢視可是這些訓練相關的計畫,包括它的場館的運營"},{"start":21925.626,"end":21935.371,"text":"他的目的是要促進國民就業在目的上面確實他的目的是在做這件事那做這件事的同時他會有一些行政上面的支出"},{"start":21937.794,"end":21964.506,"text":"行政支出我知道啦但行政支出你的用途裡面就已經包含在裡面了嘛所以說我要實施職業訓練及就業資訊等事項所以我自己會認為說當然你說當然當然現在大家看到所謂買咖啡等等等的大家會有不同的觀感來沒關係部長對可是他會有必要的行政支出部長那我請教一件事情我們就針對一件事情就好了好舉例來講就是以咖啡機為例你們現在有啟動內部調查還是全部都交由檢調來調查"},{"start":21966.857,"end":21978.997,"text":"像這個事情呃就我我跟華為說明哦剪掉現在是針對標案或者是採購的部分其實有在調查了那"},{"start":21980.918,"end":21998.515,"text":"呃就這些部分因為標案或者是採購部分他就會涉及到一些行形式上上面的責任所以他們是有希望說我們其實在某在這些部分上面這個如果那那一些內部的調查的部分可以先暫緩那以他們來作為最優先"},{"start":22000.017,"end":22023.242,"text":"好部長因為我們希望說當然司法進行調查了但我們後續如果司法沒有調查出什麼結果我當然不知道他們司法是什麼調查了我們會全力配合司法的調查我們希望說讓民眾知道到底像比如說你這個什麼咖啡精有的沒有的到底是用什麼科目你把它支出的嗎我們在在合一性上我們會做一輪機制的檢討因為我們看到因為其實我剛剛這樣講"},{"start":22025.371,"end":22053.947,"text":"剛剛你們的這個不好意思剛剛是是是代理署長提到說要爭取公務預算我們看到明年度預算自己勞動部本來的預算就2900億左右2859億左右那救安基金也只有200億元的收入啦但是我是覺得說像這些有的沒有的支出理論上就應該使用公務支出就好了不應該一直就占用一直去用我們所謂的這個救安基金這麼好用那這麼好用是過去這些年你們便宜形式去用了那"},{"start":22054.867,"end":22071.3,"text":"當然發生就發生了嘛現在進行調查我們期待是西部長上來的未來像這樣子的基金這樣子基金使用如果不符合項目不符合他原來用來保障國民就業的部分的時候你在使用上你就應該去回到本預算裡面了你該行政支出就是行政支出啊"},{"start":22072.301,"end":22086.397,"text":"我們會跟盡量來跟行政院爭取在本部的預算裡面能夠擴編啦但確實是過去長期因為本部的預算都相當有限所以跟這三個名目下面相關的業務才會去用到救安基金的使用"},{"start":22086.897,"end":22090.82,"text":"目前其實在公務員保護的一些相關法令他的法公務員的法體系確實現在比較是在考試院下"},{"start":22116.536,"end":22142.362,"text":"所以未來主管機關不一定是你們?你們的主管機關不討論了嗎?經過這一兩個禮拜這樣子動盪之後目前我說目前在公務員人員的法體系是在考試院那這部分不是我們說我們想怎樣就能夠怎樣的事情啊我怎麼這樣問呢?因為剛剛你不斷的去回答其他委員說我們可能訂專法訂專章但如果未來的主管機關不在你這邊"},{"start":22143.669,"end":22159.309,"text":"那我現在在這裡討論不就白搭嗎因為一般的勞工也需要啊一般勞工現在當然有所謂職業安全衛生法這部分可以處理嘛但是現有的職安法針對霸凌防治的條文確實也不足夠啊所以確實我本來要跟你討論主席坐下了好"},{"start":22163.823,"end":22183.48,"text":"指案法裡面我想最嚴重的問題是這樣啦現在當然有指案法有一些依循標準包含說我們公務員相關也是依照什麼指案法去訂立相關的準則但是最麻煩是什麼沒有霸凌故意就是什麼叫做霸凌故意什麼叫要件這部分在未來修法裡面你們會處理嗎當然這是重點那我們稍微開始討論這個事情現在已經在討論禮拜一已經召開相關會議了"},{"start":22185.134,"end":22200.746,"text":"好那我們希望這件事情齁能夠盡快的至少勞工的所謂職業安全衛生法勞工的準則定出來之後可能後續我不知道公務員的部分到底是歸你們還是以後歸考試員那至少有一個準則因為我知道現行階段公務員的部分是參考勞工的東西嘛"},{"start":22201.816,"end":22220.807,"text":"對 所以我們現在包括我們的職安署其實在於不管是勞動部法清開或者是霸凌的部分我也希望他其實能夠參考國外的一些案例跟做法那能夠更專業那當然我說公務員裡面如果要訂定的話我們勞動部我們也很願意一起參與討論提供我們在這部分累積的專業"},{"start":22221.909,"end":22245.931,"text":"好這叫拜託部長因為就像我們這個上一位部長跟這個分子長案件一樣第一份調查報告就如同那時候在記者會講的你會到他們按照法律就會講說最後因為沒有霸凌故意認為他沒有涉嫌重大所以這部分到底怎麼樣叫做霸凌故意這中間因果關係要怎麼建立起來我們希望部長能夠把這部分來強化可以嗎當然謝謝"},{"start":22248.494,"end":22256.141,"text":"好 謝謝黃建庭委員 謝謝部長 接續我們請楊耀委員質詢不要吵到時間了喔好 謝謝主席 主席請教黃部長"},{"start":22275.107,"end":22294.323,"text":"部長我剛剛聽部長在回答張祺凱委員的時候我有一個疑問所以想要先請教一下部長部長說現在各機關單位都在成立調查小組因為都有相關的案件在申訴"},{"start":22297.711,"end":22325.262,"text":"就是很多部會都有聽到這個部會下的相關的申訴嗎?那都要經過一定調查的機制所以就是遍地烽火縱使是這樣子呢我其實我也是主張外部委員必須要多於內部人員的"},{"start":22327.294,"end":22353.177,"text":"因為內部人員其實在特別是公務體系裡面公務體系裡面是這樣子就是大家可能在同一個單位待久了那他來擔任委員其實是作為外部委員輔導輔助之用我個人的看法這樣子出來的調查報告"},{"start":22354.943,"end":22377.233,"text":"第一會比較有公信力第二比較不會有有欺上瞞下的調查報告出爐我這樣子講部長覺得怎麼樣我們希望這過程要怎麼樣更取信於外監更有公信力對因為我也不相信外部委員這麼懶找因為其實"},{"start":22384.622,"end":22392.201,"text":"大齡或性貧的案件的專家介面其實我們可以把它看得寬廣一點"},{"start":22394.687,"end":22397.288,"text":"法案提出"},{"start":22424.212,"end":22447.11,"text":"法案的提出很重要可是呢我常講徒罰不足以自刑啊更重要的其實是是組織跟官僚文化我我曾經在河前部長最後一次來來備刑的時候我有問過一個問題就是說聽說發展署"},{"start":22453.874,"end":22465.681,"text":"的辦公大樓裡面有一個長官專屬坐梯有沒有部長沒有去過那個辦公室嗎我有"},{"start":22468.1,"end":22495.017,"text":"跟委員報告部長到大樓的時候他沒有搭那個那個專屬座梯那至於內棟大樓因為不是只有勞動部勞動力發展署自己用是整個這個新莊年的辦公大樓管委會他們所做的一個規範所以那個部分從文化部以下他們確實當時在大樓管會有做這樣一個設計為什麼我對這個這個電梯有意見呢因為我覺得很多很多文化是從是從從"},{"start":22498.399,"end":22508.107,"text":"從小細節發展出來的就是說你長官一走進辦公室就已經有別於其他的員工"},{"start":22512.301,"end":22527.521,"text":"大家的格格感會很深所以我是建議不管有幾個機關在哪裡是不是大家去統合一下把它取消因為這個國人的觀感也不好"},{"start":22528.461,"end":22530.363,"text":"民進黨不要說在公務體系"},{"start":22557.361,"end":22571.697,"text":"我們從街頭走到執政我其實對這個是非常的厭惡的所以我自己到發案所的時候我自己也沒有坐那個所謂的長官電梯"},{"start":22572.698,"end":22596.959,"text":"對我現在不是說你啦對那我說如果其他的相關其他的部會也同意的話我們當然覺得也不用真的不用去分這個什麼長官跟一般的員工當然因為你想嘛就是說所有的長官都有專屬做題然後久了以後呢他就會發展出一個很奇特的文化勞動部啊"},{"start":22600.006,"end":22626.577,"text":"我的觀察這五六年還真的是默默的存在然後偶爾就出一些問題這個是很遺憾的就是說全國的勞工勞保的投保人數超過1200萬一個這麼大的部這幾年討論到的大概就是救安基金濫用"},{"start":22629.288,"end":22652.731,"text":"然後再做霸凌有關這次霸凌我有一個問題請教一下部長部長聽說你在立委任職期間就有聽過霸凌應該是我跟經營部說明因為之前在衛航委員會我就有聽聞過這位謝富恩署長在一些管理的作風上面"},{"start":22654.777,"end":22681.397,"text":"是有問題的,我有聽聞過,但不是針對這個吳姓公務員他整體的管理的作風我覺得霸凌案呢,或者是內部的事務呢,最麻煩的就是他的聲音出不來我在未完第13年啊"},{"start":22682.881,"end":22684.586,"text":"其實我真的不知道那"},{"start":22687.374,"end":22711.63,"text":"我是覺得這樣子就是說那當初你覺得他的領導風格有問題我聽聞這件事情那你有沒有做什麼那時候我就向勞動部反映你有向勞動部反映許民村的時代去年的時候去年就還是許民村啊你說你向部長反映嘛就向勞動部"},{"start":22715.692,"end":22731.415,"text":"向勞動部反映,勞動部有沒有給你回覆?因為我其實是聽聞,所以我在聽聞的狀況下我覺得我還是要聽,但其實是一個反應跟提醒,說你們要注意這個事情,這樣子。"},{"start":22734.101,"end":22753.557,"text":"所以你聽聞他的領導風格有問題因為不是有具體的人不是有具體的陳情人不是有人來跟我陳情不是或者是說我手上有很具體的事證這樣子就是有聽說有聽聞對所以你也就反應了對先就反應跟提醒反應了以後"},{"start":22756.67,"end":22779.114,"text":"反映給誰部長可能也忘了就向勞動部反映向勞動部反映然後勞動部也沒有給出任何的下文就是當然這中間經過了什麼事情坦白說我不是那麼清楚但是對我現在上任來說我最重要的事情就是說相關的反映相關的提醒都能夠被有效的處理當然"},{"start":22780.889,"end":22804.031,"text":"我覺得是這樣子就是一個部會的文化是漸漸形成的那在過去這幾年為什麼大家現在一直在講救安基金其實我曾經在這個位置跟許民春就救安基金的補助"},{"start":22806.938,"end":22823.727,"text":"發生過非常激烈的爭吵許民春還揚言不幹了我為什麼剛剛問部長你當初是接獲到什麼訊息因為我覺得"},{"start":22827.042,"end":22855.344,"text":"我覺得就是就我的觀察在過去這6年我再講一次就是勞動部就默默的存在每一年只有在調最低基本工資的時候大家才發現原來行政院有勞動部那再一個就是大家討論到"},{"start":22857.168,"end":22885.407,"text":"舊安基金的時候會討論到因為舊安基金確實被濫用得很嚴重今天不討論因為我們還有機會討論然後再接下來就是你整個部會的文化已經非常的官僚跟僵化所以在內部光是一個分署長"},{"start":22886.607,"end":22914.919,"text":"就可以作威作福到這種程度這個是執政黨應該要有的警訊部長我們兩個就是各打50大板我當初沒有要求許明春信守承諾辭掉部長這是我的軟弱我覺得部長當初接到的訊息沒有去追也是你的疏忽"},{"start":22916.861,"end":22930.249,"text":"我們共同勉勵共同打拼謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝楊耀文委員以重新長來接續我們請洪孟靜委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請洪森恆部長"},{"start":22950.578,"end":22950.72,"text":"主席"},{"start":22952.543,"end":22981.338,"text":"以往立法院叫紅委員會有兩個人回應現在只剩我回應了紅委員高森紅部長不過該瞭解跟確認一下你的上任你的上台其實說實在話是一個公務人員的離開跟大家不想看到的一個悲劇發生而北分署署長到目前其實你說他拍了影片之後人間蒸發沒有再出現那"},{"start":22982.456,"end":23010.063,"text":"現在調查報告今天上午你做的說明是說要一個禮拜內才會出來下週對我可不可以請教一下政府持續在進行在何沛山部長在卸任之前他也承諾是說他會在一個禮拜內再提出過相關的一個行政報告那為什麼你上任之後又進行了什麼樣的一個什麼樣的調整什麼樣的了解讓這個調查報告又要再延後一週"},{"start":23010.843,"end":23029.429,"text":"是想說從頭過身就過還是想要拉長時間讓大家淡忘這件事情當然不是是那來確認一下說明一下你認為是說再過從這件事情11月4號到下週變成是一個月的時間了今天一個月剛好期滿"},{"start":23032.121,"end":23054.539,"text":"部長你認為我們的行政調查作業拖一個多月你可以接受嗎?如果說當初還是紅委員站在這個位置的時候他能夠接受行政部門一個多月的拖延嗎?那個紅委員我想向你說明因為我們是重啟調查是重啟調查會有重啟調查前的準備作業所以是誰負責重啟調查?"},{"start":23057.093,"end":23060.637,"text":"在上週我們其實很快就只是重啟調查的作業所以這週正在做相關的訪談"},{"start":23075.014,"end":23103.336,"text":"我們是重新我們我們是讓大家可以是重新的訪談那甚至也增加了一些邀請來受訪談的對象是就是希望能夠讓調查的過程的輪廓可以更加的清晰尤其是能夠更從這個無性公務員他是一個被壓迫者的角度他到底經歷了什麼是我們希望能夠更加清晰所以我們現在在進行這個相關的做非常好所以這一個行政調查"},{"start":23103.456,"end":23103.736,"text":"本席提醒"},{"start":23127.83,"end":23139.735,"text":"在我們看到的媒體報導以及相關的一個資料裡面還有上一次我在衛福委員會質詢的時候有講到那位無性公務同仁他禮拜天11月3號"},{"start":23141.547,"end":23170.678,"text":"沒有被電話聯絡不上的時候他的家人還有前往我們的辦公處所來去做希望能夠瞭解說是不是無性公務人員在裡面加班結果我們的同仁跟我回覆講是說當天確實有在11月4號凌晨12點多的時候有看到他們的家屬去結果被警衛擋在外面連通報也沒有通報連聯繫也沒有聯繫所以到最後"},{"start":23171.098,"end":23189.419,"text":"就不知道這個無姓公務同仁他什麼時候離開因為他被發現的時候是隔一天11月4號早上7點半當我們有公務人員進去要上班的時候發現所以部長是不是連同這個部分也能夠做一個徹底釐清有沒有可能最後其實我們是有機會"},{"start":23191.206,"end":23191.386,"text":"部長,可以嗎?"},{"start":23216.3,"end":23232.52,"text":"呃跟吳姓公務員親身有關的相關的資訊我們當然都會納入是在這裡面所以連這個部分因為本市已經本市這一個部分不是我講是上一次何沛山部長在你這個位置的時候我問他我們的同仁答詢的時候親口證實的"},{"start":23234.982,"end":23252.049,"text":"說11月4號12點多已經過了等於是11月3號禮拜天晚上但已經過了12點所以是11月4號的清晨12點多的時候無姓家屬他們確實有到辦公場所但是被警衛擋下來沒有辦法去確認說他是不是有在裡面"},{"start":23255.297,"end":23281.91,"text":"就我所知確實有這個事情但一些關於一些細節的部分可能這個可能等調查報告出來好那我們就期待一定要把這個調查報告讓我們看到你改革的決心我希望好不好不要希望啦有點自信好不好紅部長來部長再一個部分是就業安定基金啊現在有媒體職業講師說有八千萬被濫用"},{"start":23283.524,"end":23306.064,"text":"好那我請教一下我請教一下很多人都在問八千萬被濫用是重複了是不是我們這個我們衛環委員會來抱歉剛蘇蘇蘇州有旁邊這位是祖密祖密對本席的詢問有意見是不是剛我提到我講說八千萬被濫用然後祖密直接講說啊這重複了"},{"start":23309.178,"end":23330.157,"text":"好沒關係但是本席要問的是什麼要問的是說那我們可不可以釐清了解一下到底就業安定基金被用在哪些項目上面當然因為我們有發函或是說我們有要詢問勞動部說到底過去就業安定基金我們支出的項目名稱不得其門而入啊部長"},{"start":23332.694,"end":23355.098,"text":"你竟然講說當然你也在一個在上上禮拜還是立法委員還是監督者的位置如果說我們現在要求要就案訂基金去年我們這支出的項目包括說有沒有八千萬有什麼買咖啡豆青垃圾裝潢等等的部分能不能提供給立法部門來去做了解我想這應該不是秘密吧"},{"start":23357.239,"end":23375.247,"text":"這個關於這八千現在媒體裡面講八千萬相關的支出是這單都可以提供嗎好因為其實甚至也很多現在其實都在網路上面是查得到的好那還有就業安定基金的一個用途因為就業安定基金其實有法規相關依據12項那裡面其實沒有所謂的政令宣導"},{"start":23376.479,"end":23397.521,"text":"沒有所謂的政令宣導有的是什麼有勞工權益的促進有的是這個就業的一個協助但是沒有所謂政令宣導可是居然被濫用或是挪用的部分所以是不是會後能夠請我們相關同仁提供去年就業安定基金的一個使用項目以及他的一個支出的一個細項"},{"start":23399.937,"end":23428.186,"text":"這沒有問題吧跟委員說明就安定基金當然它在母法裡面是三個大的目標那後來在致用辦法裡面其實有所謂12項12個目的對但是沒有政令宣導重點是在那三個大項上面那我們確實過去會有一些文宣文宣的經費也就是說比方說它是用在促進國民就業促進國民就業上面可能會有一些需要宣傳的需要"},{"start":23429.987,"end":23445.833,"text":"會用到捐贈安定基金所以你現在成了某種程度上是一種抄議啊沒關係部長我們這個都還有時間來繼續討論但是重點是先請提供這個捐贈安定基金的一個使用項目跟支出"},{"start":23449.645,"end":23466.854,"text":"最後一個事情部長新官上任不到一個月我只確認一下你之前有一二再三希望能夠提出要添災要有有薪假的一個部分現在擔任部長還會不會持續推動其實我也在跟業務單位討論這事情"},{"start":23468.975,"end":23490.736,"text":"我其實提的只是所謂這個颱風甲然後他如果有出勤的話那應該這個事業單位應該有義務要加給這個工資那這部分我知道其實業務單位現在也在研議中勞金法事實之一條嘛對不對本企業關心這個議題所以我希望部長"},{"start":23491.477,"end":23507.488,"text":"既然在紅委員的時候就有相關的提案那擔任部長了你就更有權力能夠來做來推動來執行來達成所以你之前的提案我們會幫你追蹤我們也希望在未來的"},{"start":23508.268,"end":23533.949,"text":"委員會審查的時候我們的行政部門不要紅委員紅部長的意見不一致我自己也非常關心這件事因為這關乎到勞工在颱風天之類的天災的狀況他出勤其實應該能夠有更好的福利跟勞動條件的對待那我們也會相關的修法我們也拜託召委之後來排案事實之一條我們一定會一起推好不好感謝"},{"start":23536.06,"end":23540.283,"text":"謝謝 謝謝孟愷 謝謝部長接下來我們請羅志強委員歡迎主席有請部長謝謝羅委員部長好"},{"start":23561.158,"end":23586.965,"text":"之前那個許民村前部長被爆料就用就業安定基金他的音樂會花了300多萬那你知道他的幕後花絮影片花了多少錢幕後花絮影片對我告訴你啦做了7支影片花了203萬短影片就是60秒的短影片然後單支的價格是29萬沒錯吧"},{"start":23589.471,"end":23592.173,"text":"是你知道平均每次點擊率多少嗎300多目前是300多對這是辛苦你了300多這個數字部長你聽得下去嗎部長你也有做那個平台吧對不對是這個效率看起來當然扯吧昏倒啦29萬照你們說300多的點擊率"},{"start":23619.793,"end":23634.584,"text":"能看嗎?跟委員報告那整個的案子是一個音樂會以及音樂影帶的拍攝我講的是幕後花絮影片連同那個整個音樂的演出沒關係沒關係這件事情這影片目前都還在勞動部的YT上對不對?"},{"start":23642.199,"end":23650.495,"text":"但是許民春辦公室說這是不實指控欸我想請問部長一支影片29萬是真的還假的?是不是不實指控?"},{"start":23652.353,"end":23673.607,"text":"這個影片是當初我只問你嘛有沒有一支影片29萬嘛有沒有嘛這是整體連同音樂片的那個製作好啦我告訴你喔拍攝那部分你們在性別工作平等法20週年音樂會及音樂影片結案報告裡就寫得很清楚一支就是29萬科目都有"},{"start":23675.729,"end":23700.808,"text":"還要再幫他幫我們的許明川炎黃嗎需要嗎部長新氣象不需要吧我們沒有必要為幫任何人去炎黃但我當然不是很清楚知道許前部長他所謂的不實指控的在講的是哪一件事情他就說這件事整件事不實指控啊就是我不知道他具體是指哪一件事情我們不用去為任何人對護短我跟你講國家錢就這樣浪費啦就一個安定基金的錢就這樣浪費啦"},{"start":23707.386,"end":23726.241,"text":"一個影片點擊率可以低到這種程度做了什麼他要去當演唱會去當歌星齁這邊浪費國家的錢喔這樣還不滿足欸還要把他的演唱會來做幕後花絮欸都是拍他喔幕後花絮喔真的很愛秀欸我再想請教你下一個問題喔"},{"start":23728.735,"end":23743.541,"text":"新北市議員我們這個就是謝宜龍挪用就業安定基金145萬在公共空間種個人植物需要24小時的燈照所以112年新莊本部用電量高達3萬多度"},{"start":23745.749,"end":23773.187,"text":"這是真的吧?跟委員說明我先把事實的狀況讓委員知道現在外界當然所謂說有3萬多度我不知道比較的基準是什麼但我有去查了謝宜榮分署長上任的前後110年跟121年跟112年就北分署新莊本部的用電數據的差別大概是5000多度差距是5000多度但這並不是謝宜榮"},{"start":23776.029,"end":23779.693,"text":"你知道謝宜龍是2023年3月當上北分署的署長嗎?對你知道2022年勞動部北分署用電度數是多少?"},{"start":23797.183,"end":23811.152,"text":"我手上的數據大概30幾萬度吧我手上你們勞動部給我數據237萬度我講的是北分署不是新莊我記得是30幾萬度吧我講的是北分署237萬度這是韓訓練場北分署在新莊本部應該是30幾萬度"},{"start":23821.196,"end":23831.732,"text":"2023年齁我們謝榮當了署長之後你知道變了多少度嗎?整個北分數呃我根本不知道剛剛就是說我們查了112年跟121年的差別我講的是整個北分數啦251萬度啦沒錯吧"},{"start":23836.994,"end":23853.505,"text":"沒錯吧兩呃我說的是新莊因為他的辦公室你不要再跟我講新莊放下新莊好不好我講的是北分署我已經質詢了多久你倒還在跟我停在新莊我在北分署啊難道今天謝宜蓉只管新莊本部啊她不管北分署啊好"},{"start":23857.551,"end":23857.631,"text":"誒不對喔"},{"start":23884.795,"end":23896.806,"text":"其他的分署用電數是怎麼樣?是上升還是下降?我跟你講部長我要說句實在話啦你不用再幫他們背了啦他的浪費是大家有目共睹見證的啦"},{"start":23899.342,"end":23925.29,"text":"我跟羅委員報告齁我其實絕對沒有要去幫誰背我現在就問吧那其他的分署的用電數你們給我資料是下降的啊所以不要再找藉口什麼疫情藉口那其他單位就不受疫情影響部長我跟你說今天你的所有的幕僚今天這種表現啊還在遮蓋掩蓋那我就很懷疑你上來到底能夠滅什麼火我再想請教你下一個問題啊"},{"start":23928.254,"end":23948.768,"text":"謝宜龍他有用救難定基金來花145萬種植物有這回事嗎我跟委員說明145萬是北分署他其實一些公共空間的這個綠美化工程就我查明後他本身他自己的辦公室並沒有用到這145萬但是"},{"start":23951.59,"end":23974.303,"text":"他為了照射那些植物所裝設的軌道燈確實是用舊安定基金那這部分是非常非常不妥當的而且這也不能被接受的所以那些軌道燈是用舊安定基金114年舊安基金裡面勞動力發展署辦公室業務基金所需水電油物通訊文書管理辦公室"},{"start":23975.463,"end":23982.568,"text":"用品維護辦公廳設公共空間綠美化衛生安全等費用114年度是編多少錢1億1849萬對不對那你覺得哪一個部分他花的最多"},{"start":23993.002,"end":24013.538,"text":"電費是最多啦電費在這個勞動力發展署各分112年加總總花費大概是5837萬但是你知道所謂的其他的包括所謂的購置辦公用品維護辦公廳設公共空間綠美化安全衛生你知道花多少錢嗎6000萬吶"},{"start":24019.96,"end":24042.793,"text":"部長剛剛講那八千萬我跟你講你都仔細挖進去啊八千萬都還不才是小額科我向你說明其實我在上禮拜上任後其實就有要求要檢討救安基金的滋用我知道我看過了啦你在那邊我看過了但我要今天要提醒你的是問題的嚴重性是我今天要提醒部長"},{"start":24044.346,"end":24055.576,"text":"真的太扯了如果今天勞動部要選一個年度代表字我送你一個字就是扯我希望你把這扯的文化打破掉這是我們對你的期許那接下來我再問你你知道勞動部114年媒體宣傳費跟出國經費各自編多少錢嗎114年對"},{"start":24068.271,"end":24092.219,"text":"媒體宣傳費62萬是行政院轄下機關最少的部會非常節儉要肯定你出國預算166萬是34個中央機關裡的倒數第6你們很省啊對不對為什麼編那麼少你知道為什麼編那麼少嗎因為這是在公務預算裡面的對啊你知道為什麼因為公務預算編那麼少但是你的錢都編到哪邊去啊捐錢都編到哪去啊"},{"start":24093.191,"end":24104.599,"text":"所以你把就業安定基金當作小金庫114年的就業安定基金裡面媒體宣導跟業務費編2億1711萬比113年的1億6707萬漲幅高達30%然後呢旅運國外旅費編高達1074萬你難怪勞動部本部的預算公務預算編得這麼低啊博取美名啊"},{"start":24122.22,"end":24145.322,"text":"博取美名啊然後就用小金庫來開始去搞啊我們並不是要博取美名啊我還是在告訴你部長一件事情我這到目前為止這件事情這樣不是算你的因為國人也不會算到你身上因為你剛上任算你也不合理可是今天如果說你是這種態度來面對救安利基金你跟我保證你會把救安利基金好好用誰相信你啊"},{"start":24146.581,"end":24169.528,"text":"根本就掩耳盜鈴嘛你在你的公務預算裡面編這麼低我們今天立法院看不到然後到Joyanti基金裡面狂編欸幾億幾億的編欸我們會來跟行政院爭取本部的預算我們會來跟行政院爭取本部的預算應該要增加因為過去本部的預算確實是分配的過少要編什麼預算要出國還是要去養綠油油的媒體"},{"start":24176.499,"end":24185.787,"text":"就正大光明變大公務與善業,不要濫用基金和押金基金。謝謝。謝謝羅委員,謝謝部長。來,繼續我們請張志榮委員,歡迎。好,謝謝主席,各位委員,各位官員,大家午安。是有請洪部長。"},{"start":24208.574,"end":24211.521,"text":"創委員好部長好部長"},{"start":24213.108,"end":24239.783,"text":"這是您的上任是因為一位無姓公務員的白白的犧牲所以政府應該趁此機會讓申訴的機制更加的完善那尤其這個北分署謝宜榮的這個問題他現在已經辭職了可是我想很多民眾還是非常好奇第一個請教部長的他為什麼可以升官升得這麼快而且過去就本席所得知他就是"},{"start":24240.503,"end":24240.523,"text":"負責"},{"start":24263.744,"end":24281.975,"text":"張永過去確實這個謝永芬署長他的經歷齁他在做分署長前的職位是什麼我想也大家都都很清楚你我就是想請教說你瞭解的是如何我我我我我可以跟文說但是就他我當時為什麼這個"},{"start":24286.038,"end":24299.23,"text":"跳升到被牽合到升到北分組分數長這件事情我確實不瞭解到現在還不瞭解就是到底為什麼當然我覺得這事情必須是接受到社會的公平你不想瞭解嗎"},{"start":24303.115,"end":24329.785,"text":"這個相關的決策做這個你不了解就沒有辦法杜絕相關未來產生同樣的問題我說我的意思是做這個決策當然決策的人必須接受到社會的公平那到底是誰做這樣的決策您清楚嗎清楚或不清楚若不清楚就說不清楚清楚或是現在不能回應不清楚清楚我現在無法回應"},{"start":24332.31,"end":24360.163,"text":"跟委員報告當時謝分署長他前一個工作是在那個部長辦公室裡面的專門委員那在最後部裡面核定這個派定的時候他說他跳過副組長跟組長的這個職位的原因是什麼因為你講到他的職位嘛原因我們不知道程序不知道我可以確認程序是由勞動力發展署發一個公文建議部裡面來核定他為分署長那誰核准的"},{"start":24360.944,"end":24364.259,"text":"部裡面依照人事程序核定的請問你知道誰核准的嗎?"},{"start":24371.134,"end":24393.977,"text":"當時依照我們的人事的選擇劃分是當時的許部長核定的許銘春許部長核定的好謝謝所以現在洪部長你也了解了所以部長他是有職權可以核定這樣子的人事案所以我才要問才要跟我們現任的洪部長講這樣的事情所以有關係就沒關係所以第一點要大家可以釐清那第二個"},{"start":24394.978,"end":24421.086,"text":"您今年在媒體上也有特別提到說今年2月有人跟您申訴有關勞動部的一些鬼故事就是霸凌的事件那可是很可惜的當時好像有被吃案的情況那我想要請教一下您自己的案子您自己提出的霸凌案為何被吃案那現在當任部長有沒有去做調查那個跟趙委員說明第一個"},{"start":24422.577,"end":24449.012,"text":"其實當時並不是有人來跟我申訴或有人來跟我澄清所以我有聽聞到相關這個謝芬署長這個不當管理的傳聞我有聽聞但不是有人來跟我澄清那你有聽聞那你後續有做澄清嗎那我其實就把這樣子的訊息向勞動部反映那請問勞動部會何此案那你現在當任部長的時候你想要重啟調查嗎"},{"start":24450.311,"end":24473.067,"text":"我現在正在重啟調查有關於你被吃案的案件你有重啟調查所以在調查報告會提出來這樣的內容那個沒有就只要確認清楚而已我像張委員說我當時其實聽聞的並不是吳姓公務員的案子是對於當時謝芬署長的不當管理的一些作風所以我當然在部分提出提醒可是這並不是針對一個個別的個案的狀況"},{"start":24475.401,"end":24493.364,"text":"好沒關係我希望說部長你還是要有guts要來針對你自己提的案子自己擔任有行政職位的以後自己應該重啟調查就代表現在還有你提出的這個案子還有人在被霸凌當中所以你既然擔任部長之前有了解的案子應該要去查清楚"},{"start":24493.985,"end":24518.034,"text":"那當然部長當然上星期有一個新聞也很大齁就是當然你當任部長的時候你有要求齁這個勞動部各單位齁到週末的時候來跟你做這個部會間的報告齁那後來當然是因為當然是第一個啦好像本來有說有封口後來你說沒有嘛那後來你當然也改口絕對沒有封口絕對沒有絕對沒有封口絕對沒有好"},{"start":24519.995,"end":24539.983,"text":"沒有封口那我想要跟你請教一下勞動部在你講完這件事情的時候雖然沒有開會勞動部上週末有多少人週末加班你知道嗎?我被你講了雖然你沒有封口你也沒有叫大家不要加班可是因為新官上任三把火大家還是有加班你有確認這樣的情況嗎?"},{"start":24544.693,"end":24567.261,"text":"我坦白說我並沒有我我我能夠現在不知道勞動部整體的加班狀況還是不清楚我能我也很想知道但是我們要找到一個比較好去了解這件事情的好那時間的關係我快問快一點齁我知道你好像比較累齁那你就你我請問一下你是何時現在說要重啟調查你是何時開始重啟調查的時間點是什麼時候是上週上週大概禮拜幾"},{"start":24568.783,"end":24594.68,"text":"我們上週大概從禮拜三就開始做相關的作業的討論然後開始從開始做相關作業的準備好那大概調查報告你今天有很多委員回覆嗎那本席想要請教你的是說過去的調查小組有說這個調查的這個調查的這個主持的人後跟這個謝芬署長後有這個友好關係哦那請問一下現在調查小組跟過去調查小組的最大不同是什麼"},{"start":24596.401,"end":24611.394,"text":"現在是由我自己親自來當召集人那還有沒有其他專家學者單位?有,會有外部專家有沒有什麼跟之前的調查小組不一樣的地方嗎?第一個是我自己來擔任調查小組的召集人"},{"start":24612.455,"end":24633.434,"text":"然後在調查小組的成員上面那當然跟過去也有不同部長你好像沒有辦法很清楚的回應到底有哪一些不同那希望說你再繼續加油到底哪一些不同不然只有講不同其實好像感覺有點換湯換藥那我再請教當時媒體有踢爆就是我們當時的"},{"start":24635.136,"end":24663.475,"text":"前分署長吼他在擔任分署長的時候他有這個呃長官的直屬公務電梯而且你知道這件事嗎你當時有去看謝榮的辦公室他到底有沒有直屬的公務電梯呃跟文說明其實那是在發案署在新莊大樓裡面他有一個因為他裡面有好幾個部會不只是勞發署還包括其他部會都在裡面所以那整棟大樓裡面其實所以有沒有長官只有長官可以搭直屬電梯"},{"start":24664.255,"end":24683.835,"text":"那你現在是不是可以可以宣布說現在這個長官能搭自主電梯未來是所有所有的公務員都可以搭乘不是只有長官上禮拜二去北分署跟老爸所說我就沒有搭那個電梯那有這個自己嗎我自己就沒有搭那個電梯所以有這個現在還是只有長官可以搭因為這個涉及到其他部分因為他是"},{"start":24684.235,"end":24688.778,"text":"現在的狀況還是只有長官能搭的直屬電梯你現在去了解這樣的狀況你只是選擇不搭可是沒有想說要改變"},{"start":24704.068,"end":24706.81,"text":"那我再請教一下勞動部裡面有沒有這樣子的長官只有長官可以搭的直屬電梯沒有"},{"start":24721.638,"end":24743.091,"text":"我希望說第一個部長在這邊可以答應第一個勞動部如果有只有長官能搭的直屬電梯從今天開始起開放給所有的勞動部的員工都可以搭乘第二個希望你來協助就是當你講的現在沒有辦法來協調的這個部分由你來協調讓所有的這個所有我們的基層員工可以來搭"},{"start":24745.612,"end":24757.638,"text":"你覺得這樣合不合理在勞動部裡面我絕對不會去要求哪一個電梯只能誰搭絕對不會去要求這件事情所以我自己這個開政務委政務會議的時候行政委的政務會議你可以提出來啊"},{"start":24759.199,"end":24781.277,"text":"你是勞動部長你不是不僅是紅委員是我我我如果其他部會同意的話我當然同意在我們在新莊本部就不去再去區分所謂的長官跟一般的工作人員的電梯的使用所以你可以答應我說你會來提出這樣子的建議我願意來提出這樣建議好謝謝吼好幫所有公務人員發聲吼好接下來我想要請教的就是說"},{"start":24782.438,"end":24805.94,"text":"未來非常大家非常重視的我們未來所有的這個勞工齁在週末如果收到這個LINE的訊息喔是不是應該要10分鐘內回應不然會收到檢討以及這個過去有這個打卡部分有假打卡真實有加班的問題喔是不是請勞動部長在這邊可以跟大家宣布說未來如果勞工遇到這樣的問題過勞的問題要怎麼解決"},{"start":24808.502,"end":24837.564,"text":"因為我想這是未來很多的勞工全台1600萬勞工都在看說你的態度到底是什麼未來我們的勞工要怎麼來面對這樣的事情如果是勞工的話當然這是勞務主管的範圍啊那當然我們要我們就當然會這樣是不可以的是不是你說哪一個事情就是週末傳LINE有10分鐘內要回覆或者是這個我們公務部門現在有假打卡就是事實上有上班可是假打卡說提早下班可是事實上還在上班這樣的狀況是不是可以未來可以取消掉"},{"start":24837.904,"end":24865.565,"text":"張委員你現在因為你剛才在講的是好幾件事情沒有沒有就兩件第一個就是週末的時候船賴要多久時間可以回覆過去謝宜榮分署長是說10分鐘內要回覆嗎那這個問題是不是可以把它解決就沒有以後都不用這樣做第二個是我週末加班人沒有這個規定謝宜榮分署長這個規定是他自己的規定我們當然絕對不會有這樣的規定那第二個就是長期公務人員吼就是假打卡就是過時上班可是叫他"},{"start":24866.105,"end":24883.503,"text":"提早做打卡然後還是繼續加班的問題這樣子對我們所有公務人員來講未來是不是可以把這問題給解決在勞動部內的公務人員因為我是勞動部長勞動部所屬下的公務人員我會要求不要有打假卡的狀況會有加班但該怎麼報就怎麼報"},{"start":24885.472,"end":24905.105,"text":"好 謝謝您的承諾好 最後還有兩個最後兩個問題不好意思主席第一個救安基金的部分媒體踢爆有花了八千萬在不當的使用過程中那今天很多委員都提說救安基金使用的目的那我本席非常懷疑為什麼媒體會踢爆這八千萬請問這八千萬是用在哪些部門請問部長你知道嗎"},{"start":24906.377,"end":24915.962,"text":"還有這8000萬是否屬實這8000萬到底是只有約在北分署還是勞動部還是哪邊然後這8000萬的金額是怎麼來的他到底是8000萬還是更高"},{"start":24917.261,"end":24938.127,"text":"跟委員報告 這個八千萬其實是我們的媒體朋友他透過公共那個採購的一個公告決標的一個結果去做的查詢這裡面包括勞動力發展署的這個會議室的一個裝修還有公文信封紙張的採購以及北分署的這個公共空間的一個美化跟清潔用品跟影印紙"},{"start":24938.687,"end":24967.41,"text":"還有一個就是南分署南分署他在相關的建築物包括他那個保取蕭安的一個設施的一個增強跟外牆的整修等等那確實是有這些採購案好所以這上面的資料是沒錯的嗎好所以這些是在是公開資料上面媒體去把它給去去查到去找出來的對好那需要部長後未來這些都是人民納稅錢未來需要說這樣的情況不要再發生好最後我要問一個重點就是說"},{"start":24968.251,"end":24992.64,"text":"在您當任立法委員的時候,民國111年的4月25號,當時您有質詢許明春部長提出因為台商回流,人力需求大增,製造業面臨三缺問題,缺地缺工缺宿舍,所以在質詢勞動部長許明春的時候,您要求要全面來盤點未來移工人數的住宿需求,而且依照公務預算進行"},{"start":24993.4,"end":25005.691,"text":"公辦公營的移工宿舍的研究評估報告需要說來蓋這個移工的這個這個宿舍有沒有這樣的有沒有這樣的事情我當時有質詢這個事情那請問你現在擔任勞動部長你會把你當時質詢前勞動部長的事情給承諾給實現嗎"},{"start":25013.357,"end":25035.233,"text":"我當然會針對包括移工的在臺灣的生活的需求住宿是其中一個生活需求所以你未來會來做這一塊那你在做這一塊的時候我們是不是還有很多廣大的臺灣勞工或原住民的好朋友還有很多新住民的好朋友他的這個宿舍問題是不是可以一併來解決不要只針對這個移工的部分"},{"start":25036.401,"end":25048.43,"text":"跟文說明一共部分確實是因為他這個他他進來以後他其實因為雇主會需要提供他相關的宿舍這是在雇主上面的責任"},{"start":25049.978,"end":25050.018,"text":"當然,好,謝謝"},{"start":25078.167,"end":25081.21,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝張委員 接下來我們請陳穎委員質詢好 謝謝主席 麻煩請洪部長"},{"start":25103.48,"end":25127.495,"text":"謝謝陳委員部長好記得您剛您的這個新職務發布的時候有馬上要大家不要恭喜你那這個當然跟一般正常的狀況是很奇怪啦因為答應擔任部長代表說您可以施展您的抱負那為勞工來服務這應該是值得恭喜的事那可不可以請您解釋一下為什麼要大家不要恭喜呢"},{"start":25129.96,"end":25148.505,"text":"我想大家都知道現在勞動部不管是內部或外部都處於很艱困的狀況而且我們會被高度的檢視那尤其是這個職務的變動又涉及到一起悲劇所以我當然是我當然認為其實我這個職務的就任其實是不用恭喜我我不覺得這是喜事"},{"start":25148.905,"end":25172.724,"text":"好我想這個我們都也充分理解啦那勞動部長這個職務因為在目前之所以會變成不要恭喜的職務那當然也因為在霸凌案發生在勞動部那你們剛好又是主管機關才會這麼諷刺因為畢竟也是引起軒然大波那麼這個霸凌防止的業務要請教一下是由這個勞動部的哪一個機關來負責"},{"start":25176.02,"end":25203.452,"text":"就目前是職安署因為他是在職安法裡面不法侵害的部分那我要特別提醒就是這一類霸凌的部分在職安法裡面是叫做精神不法侵害那要再請教說這項精神不法侵害的預防有沒有出現在職安署處務規程的文字裡面不知道部長有沒有留意到"},{"start":25204.646,"end":25223.859,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們是職安健康所以確實沒有那個字眼好那既然沒有出現因為我們確實也檢視了那我只有看到就是職業衛生健康組裡面有職場勞工身心健康保護與健康促進之規劃推動及督導這項業務其實他是跟"},{"start":25230.023,"end":25246.99,"text":"職業壓力心理健康還有過勞預防是有關的那我想請教職安署這個又是哪一個單位在負責呢跟我們報告確實我們現在把這個霸凌或是不法侵害放在我們這個第7項就是廣義的身心健康促進來做處置的"},{"start":25249.727,"end":25277.017,"text":"所以你們職業衛生健康組來負責這個業務好那為什麼勞工遇到這個不法侵害然後被勞檢通過的比例那麼低我們看一下這個簡報我們從這個兩個面向來看一下例如說去年去年度這個雇主或事業單位被勞檢3000多的案次有裁罰的"},{"start":25278.157,"end":25278.497,"text":"全體委員會主席"},{"start":25306.921,"end":25329.318,"text":"部長您知道嗎這些事業單位被裁罰的原因他並不是說真的有這個霸凌的事實不是而是說這些事業單位他們並沒有去制定執行職務遇到精神不法侵害的預防計劃所以才被罰"},{"start":25330.459,"end":25346.356,"text":"那也才可以罰他所以你們的指引反而去告訴了這些被霸凌者各案的認定依照這個職安法施行細則第11條規定不法之侵害"},{"start":25347.639,"end":25371.571,"text":"例如身體的傷害跟蹤還有騷擾性侵以及像這些由各該管主管機關或者司法機關依規定調查或者是認定那我們講白了啦這個就是說事情發生了你們就是要被害者自己去告然後推給這個其他機關去調查跟認定"},{"start":25372.651,"end":25392.229,"text":"那你們能做的就只是去罰那些沒有訂定預防計劃的這個3萬元而已所以你們的指引就變成可以把責任推得這麼乾淨那這麼重要的一項霸凌的業務都沒有一個法定上負責的單位"},{"start":25394.387,"end":25408.892,"text":"這樣子推回來就好像又回到看起來又回到署長好自己要去決定嗎那同樣的道理啊我們來看一下這個外送平台工作者的權益保障跟紙災預防也是由治安署來負責"},{"start":25410.162,"end":25434.724,"text":"那他也是一樣是沒有法令的負責單位也是一樣就是州署長說了算嘛那這兩個共通點他就是沒有處務歸程我們很認真的去點出這個問題那治安署是103年2月成立的那108年新增了一個職業衛生健康組"},{"start":25436.265,"end":25452.822,"text":"才改了出戶規程那先今有這麼多的新興的業務這邊你們可能要認真聽一下我們今天點出這個重要的觀念因為包括這些新興的這個業務包括霸凌性別歧視性別平等性騷擾還有歧視"},{"start":25454.764,"end":25472.308,"text":"跟這個勞基法還有外籍勞工等等的勞動議題的相關的這些業務都是需要職安署你們來檢查還有這個規範那個防治措施因此在這個我們今年我在10月16號的質詢特別是以這個勞動部的智庫勞研所來舉例"},{"start":25477.189,"end":25499.088,"text":"他們都已經是從這個勞工安全衛生研究所已經改成勞動及職業安全衛生研究所那就連這個職保法呢其實都已經落日了但是呢我們這個職保組卻依然存在然後只剩一個就是在"},{"start":25500.769,"end":25519.038,"text":"剩下一個大部分的人都不知道要去哪裡申請也不主動去給發放慰問金的這個業務那組長加組員也將近30人這些人的薪資全部加起來都比發放出去的這個慰問金還要高出不知道幾百倍"},{"start":25519.938,"end":25534.353,"text":"好所以我不曉得說欸這個職保組現在的存在其實也沒有與時俱進的應該要消失啊好這個你們也應該要趕快檢討我都已經講了都要第幾遍了我想是這樣的重點是"},{"start":25535.214,"end":25560.622,"text":"你們要一併去盤點一下就是你們的新興業務還有部分業務是不是應該來交由這個財團法人職債預防重建中心去做你們可以往這個方向去思考然後把有限的這個人力依據業務的重要性重新去規劃修訂出物歸程那並且可以去更名可以更名為這個勞動"},{"start":25563.864,"end":25589.655,"text":"勞動及職業安全衛生署否則就是說就像這個霸凌跟這個平台外送員的問題一樣一旦需要專業的人員去處理的時候呢不僅發現說我們現在法令上根本就是趕不上而且你還要在自己的組織裡面去指派這個就是說去指派這個主政的單位然後也沒有辦法真正的解決問題"},{"start":25591.016,"end":25609.019,"text":"那這個絕對不是應該是署長要有的一個態度啦因為我搞不清楚這是一個什麼樣的心情是私心在作祟呢還是自卑又自大呢還是什麼樣的問題我不知道所以我不知道署長你自己怎麼認為怎麼去看這件事"},{"start":25610.912,"end":25629.666,"text":"謝謝委員指導那我們其實組織的一些出戶規則調整依照那個信用新的業務進來重新做修正這個非常謝謝委員提點至於組織的修正跟組織的調整當然我會再跟部長做進步報告看看我們有沒有在做進步檢討的地方好所以那部長你怎麼看所以我可以跟人家說第一我很謝謝你的提醒"},{"start":25630.467,"end":25659.226,"text":"那因為接下來我們會來進行霸凌防制的法制化的工作這個法制化工作第一個是相關的作用法的法規要能夠把相關的機制給建立起來但同時就像你提醒的這裡面也牽涉到一些組織跟任務上面的問題那我們也應該要包括租屋規程上面怎麼把這事情一併的考慮進去讓我們的業務的工作跟組織上面的任務能夠相對應我覺得這部分我覺得很謝謝蔡委員的提醒"},{"start":25659.446,"end":25688.338,"text":"對而且那個職保組因為我在今天我應該也講了兩三次了你們也可以好好考慮一下那個人力上比較有效的運用畢竟我們已經修法了嘛該落日的要落日啊是那最後我要提醒部長就是最近職災的問題是頗受到大家關注那部長在擔任立委的時候也有要求職災資料應該要公開那媒體都報導出來了真相是全民可以監督得到的嗎"},{"start":25689.238,"end":25714.01,"text":"而且法院的判決其實都是公開的那為什麼就是攸關於這個勞工生命安全的職災報告不能公開部長你覺得你你認為你你現在上任你什麼時候可以公開關於重大職災的這些相關的紀錄我認為該公開的就公開好那那這個事件是用社會的用透明化的程度讓社會能夠公檢視讓負責人該負責我覺得這部分我"},{"start":25717.182,"end":25740.932,"text":"我當然我還是持這個看法好謝謝部長那您這個看法需要周署長的同意嗎如果他不同意怎麼辦或者那個楊鳳英委怎麼辦那個陳委員我當然因為我現在勞動部長的工作當然會跟業務單位來做討論目標是這個但怎麼樣做然後能夠做的有效做的可行這當然是我現在我在這個工作上面的任務對"},{"start":25741.772,"end":25760.703,"text":"好我想這個這個看法我是跟你方向是跟你相同我也曾經要求過啦那在最後就是連這個晉南大學李家桐前校長都有投書媒體指出說一定要有效利用職在資料來統計分析那找出台灣職在發生的原因來對症下藥"},{"start":25761.884,"end":25784.447,"text":"執安署他不去思考如何對這件下料而是推給這個僱主跟法令那很多事情千錯萬錯職災的問題都是僱主跟法令的錯執安署都沒有錯所以除了這個勞檢跟重罰以外沒效就趕快去修法"},{"start":25785.609,"end":25806.831,"text":"那你們已經對外宣布要修職安法那我希望這一次的這個職安法的修法建議部長可以在內部審查的時候好好問一下署長這樣執法的修訂為什麼就可以降低職災可以這樣朝著方向好好討論一下那也希望部長可以重視本席今日的質詢"},{"start":25808.152,"end":25808.932,"text":"接下來我們請柯志恩委員質詢"},{"start":25840.4,"end":25840.66,"text":"行政部門該被監督諮詢的"},{"start":25863.874,"end":25885.917,"text":"好來我們開始繼續今天我剛剛看到從早到晚我看到今天非常多人來質詢有關救安基金的問題大概80%以上都會提到這個部分因為我時間非常的有限我也可遵時間的一個規定那我其實就給大家一個建議好了就是因為每個人都認為你的救安基金都已經批評它是你們勞動部的小金庫所以我個人認為說你不要等外界去發掘了"},{"start":25886.738,"end":25904.531,"text":"我就是應該配合檢調你就自己主動公佈裡面的一個細項我覺得這個部分對你來說也是種魄力的一個呈現主動然後直接送給監察院審計部我覺得這個部分對你來說是好的好不好?跟柯文報告上個禮拜在媒體報剔肉前我就已經指示我們必須檢討這件事情"},{"start":25905.612,"end":25920.658,"text":"還有 而且過程中我們其實就已經發現了一些問題部分的問題就已經發現了 主動主動公告就好不用輪到這個部分每個人都來教你教條細節還有就是我剛剛會特別提到為什麼就業安定基金的總支出大於總輸領不用現在回答我因為我時間有限還有包括"},{"start":25922.779,"end":25949.049,"text":"被濫用要提供細節還有最重要是我也看到了你六大支出項目當中112年的外籍勞工管理的計畫是過去的1.7倍原因在什麼地方請你提供明細給我好不好這個部分好額外的部分我還要特別啊因為我知道你對於勞工的權益非常的關注啊但是我還是認為你有一些的德政是可以在你任內完成的就這樣來說的話救安基金可以說是人民的血汗錢你看"},{"start":25950.049,"end":25968.571,"text":"今年就高達260億我要特別直指失能者的家庭貢獻的50億那你看過去大家也特別提到這些失能重度失能者不見得每個人都有辦法繳交你看他不斷的要繳交的哪一些的費用裡面你看我們看到非常的清楚你看"},{"start":25969.292,"end":25995.137,"text":"他很多的就業的這個部分當中裡面他的繳交的費用當中40億就業安定金是在雇主端的在雇主端當中然後呢你看112年開始使用在外國人聘雇管理業務的支出的金額驟增這部分可能要有所交代我的想法其實是很簡單你過去非常的重視這個有關於這個勞工那個權益雇主的權益其實你要稍微看重一下"},{"start":25995.937,"end":26016.665,"text":"這個部分以就業安定基金來去說的話我個人覺得你看一年就是兩萬四千塊錢而且很多重度失能他們是弱勢族群你當然會告訴我說有很多低收入的部分可以免繳但是呢這個條件其實是非常嚴苛免繳的人其實比數是非常非常的低的所以呢很多重症家庭喔"},{"start":26017.025,"end":26019.686,"text":"說實在的對他們來說就好像在繳交這個殘障稅或是失能稅一樣所以如果可以的話如果你能夠把它變成一個每個月十塊或是一個塊對這個重度失能的家庭來說真的是一筆非常大的安慰已經要照顧這麼多人了"},{"start":26035.791,"end":26061.564,"text":"如果可以在這個地方減輕他們的一個負擔的話我認為這個就是你可以回去好好的討論一下好不好我只提出建議因為我真的是時間有限最後會給你機會來做一個統一的一個回覆第二個就是我剛剛所提到的對於雇主的權益的保障因為你會知道所有這個雇主裡面你所收的這些的錢當中其實有一大部分來自於這個雇主那很多時候雇主跟這個逃跑的移工"},{"start":26062.304,"end":26077.695,"text":"移工當然是需要的權益要保住可是僱主的權益要被保障如果這個部分當中包括很多時候這個我們的僱主跟這個移工或跟任何人在打官司的時候說實在的僱主也要付出的費用啊也要付出的這個費用啊所以說呢我這而且你你會看得出來他們要付出這些費用所以對於他們來說的話"},{"start":26085.2,"end":26098.604,"text":"給予他們一些權力上面的一個保障我覺得這也是勞動部本身應該也是要來做一個考量的所以這個部分裡面我還是強調你看根據你們統計你們非常云以為豪的入境一戰式的這個這個層面的效益"},{"start":26101.345,"end":26122.151,"text":"你看入境授訊4個月後轉換僱主的比例是高達6%這在民間機構來說這是非常高的一個比率而且很多僱主還特別提到說因為有這個一戰事他想換僱主就可以換僱主這裡面都是呈現我們過去來因為我只有4分鐘我也不想讓我們的招委再繼續坐下去你看他那個臉還好是醫生所以知道怎麼保養否則已經快到4點了還有很多人"},{"start":26125.672,"end":26148.573,"text":"我提出這些方法我給你最後時間請洪部長就針對我剛剛所提問你可以回應的特別有關於失能照顧者這個層面可以回應的是不是可以立刻做一些回答克委員其實對於免繳救安定基金的範圍要不要再擴大因為你就像你也知道過去弱勢跟低收中低收其實都在免繳的範圍裡面但要不要擴大我覺得這件事情當然是可以討論的事情"},{"start":26149.534,"end":26172.724,"text":"那至於要放到多大這部分真的我們就要跟丘丹未來做一些評估我只願意你要去做一個考量因為就我理解來說這個照顧重度施政的這些家屬來說是真的非常的辛苦而且他們已經交出非常多了我們當然來願意來考量第一個是跟剛剛講到一戰事的部分怎麼樣減輕僱主的負擔這部分我覺得我們也會來做相關的研議目的"},{"start":26173.524,"end":26190.459,"text":"對所以不能只是照顧這一篇你不能夠做一個但是我想要強調的事情是當時為什麼會有一戰事的原因是因為當時在疫情期間發現移工進來中間有好幾個不同的階段都出了問題所以才希望透過一戰事能夠把相關的事情在這裡面給完成"},{"start":26191.039,"end":26210.124,"text":"主要的原因是當時是在這個想法下但是我還是要強調這個部分這樣下來幾年時薪下來他其實還是有特別是對於移工的就地對於非法移工的就地合法化這其實又是另外一個issue但都不在我今天討論範圍但這個部分其實要顯露出非常多的一個疑問存在我當然願意顧及到顧主的"},{"start":26211.584,"end":26212.004,"text":"好 謝謝柯子恩 謝謝部長"},{"start":26243.508,"end":26264.984,"text":"麥一貞 麥一貞 麥一貞委員不在李彥秀 李彥秀 李彥秀委員不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在想說都麥來啊張家俊 張家俊 張家俊委員不在許以貞 許以貞 許以貞 許以貞委員不在"},{"start":26266.601,"end":26273.125,"text":"廖先祥委員不在萬美玲委員不在張雅玲委員不在林楚茵委員不在游皓委員不在高金素梅委員不在"},{"start":26292.372,"end":26316.681,"text":"林國誠 林國誠 林國誠委員不在黃國昌委員 戲分間謝謝主席 馬上有請部長黃委員好部長好"},{"start":26319.425,"end":26341.632,"text":"兩個禮拜以前啊那個前部長在這邊承諾啊兩個禮拜要提出調查報告我昨天看你們的聲明啊是沒有辦法嘛對不對現在還在調查中下禮拜會交出來下禮拜會交出來下禮拜會公布中期調查的報告沒有啦因為齁我知道你新就任嘛所以我不想為難但我基本上的態度是說不會再立法院"},{"start":26342.532,"end":26368.522,"text":"既然做了承諾能夠遵守就盡量遵守新舊部長交接你剛上任他的承諾沒有辦法履行的部分責任要你扛我覺得也不公平但是我很看重在這個地方立委跟官員彼此之間我們在尋答過程當中所做出來的承諾這個是基本上面的原則那既然你新上任"},{"start":26369.628,"end":26372.812,"text":"下禮拜會交出來嗎?下禮拜會公布我第二個要請教的問題是說勞動部官員使用公帑去驗客是國家機密嗎?不是"},{"start":26385.049,"end":26406.978,"text":"那公署的電費是國家機密嗎?不是那使用公帑送禮是國家機密嗎?不是那如果都不是的話為什麼我發一個函去問你們編密件?這我搞不懂欸因為我接到齁我是一個念法律的人我很守法啦只要公務機關回函給我編密件"},{"start":26408.004,"end":26408.304,"text":"請針鋒處長回答"},{"start":26420.199,"end":26441.324,"text":"發言委員因為我們回答您的上次您在質詢的時候關於東營公所的案子檢查機關已經在偵辦所以那一部分的內容我們認為他已經叫我們就停止調查因為他是在偵查的一部分所以那一部分這個問題我不要在這邊花太多時間但我請"},{"start":26445.785,"end":26471.784,"text":"針鋒處的主任回去再重新的理解所謂的偵查不公開就所何止啊絕對不是按照你們所解釋的這個樣子什麼叫偵查不公開是在偵查的過程當中檢察官的具體偵查行為所發現的資訊為了要確保偵查的順利他具體的偵查行為所發現的資訊不可以對外公開"},{"start":26472.805,"end":26483.11,"text":"但是行政部門針對你們手上所掌握到的資料我看了裡面實際的內容我老實講很多委員都收錄到了我以法律人的判斷這根本就不屬於在機密的範圍所以從剛剛部長回答的過程你也可以看得出來部長回答的為什麼這麼自然"},{"start":26496.533,"end":26506.875,"text":"但是我沒有意思要在今天這個地方跟你們爭論這件事情我善意的提醒我們政風室的主任再回去了解一下"},{"start":26508.001,"end":26530.004,"text":"你們在公文上面所回覆的那個內容為什麼會編密件啊因為行政機關啊有一個非常不好的習慣我不希望這個習慣無限的延伸下去不要隨便編密件要不然裡面寫的東西我老實講我看完了以後我第一個疑問是這是哪門子機密啊"},{"start":26531.201,"end":26550.284,"text":"為什麼要編密件?你們再回去看一看再重新的審視檢討一次這樣可以嗎?那個我回應黃委員確實目前這些相關的案件因為這個檢調這邊來跟我們說明尤其是涉及到採購跟涉及到標案的部分"},{"start":26551.405,"end":26575.133,"text":"那他們現在正在調查所以他也請我們先暫緩相關的調查所以我想那個密件不是說我們要去遮掩什麼東西主要是因為現在檢調在調查的部分所以我剛剛才會跟你特別的強調嘛所謂偵查不公開的原則叫你們不要再處理或是什麼這個我都尊重啊但是這個跟你們回應立法院裡面的內容根本不涉及偵查的內容你編密件"},{"start":26576.164,"end":26600.737,"text":"我覺得這條線要守住否則以後這是原則性的問題就沒完沒了我覺得怎麼樣提供比較合理但是確實這不一定是密件啦這樣子沒有關係啊那個你們自己再回去檢討我給你們時間再回去想一想再回去檢討因為我後面還有其他的問題剛剛4分鐘主席已經加強語氣了所以我速度要稍微啊"},{"start":26602.523,"end":26613.925,"text":"要稍微再快一點在11月21號新北市勞工局勞檢以後勞動部有沒有要求北分署的同仁填寫表單填寫什麼樣的表單我具體的講職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表應該是有啦"},{"start":26627.492,"end":26629.873,"text":"11月25日下午3點18分各位主管同仁您好我是分署職安人員"},{"start":26651.937,"end":26658.681,"text":"有關113年11月21日新北市勞檢處勞檢應辦的事項辦理職場危害評估及執行紀錄 敬請大家於113年11月26日前填寫職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表跟委員說明我自己看這份文件的目的應該是想要針對"},{"start":26677.307,"end":26705.258,"text":"下屬的單位有沒有相關職場不法侵害部分做一輪的瞭解只是瞭解的方法有不妥當這我們可以檢討沒有沒有沒有部長你不要緊張啦我沒有說瞭解的方法妥不妥當第一個我質詢的習慣是先確定事實先確定事實是我秀那張email給你我只是要證實說我不是道聽途說的人家白紙黑字你們發的東西我掌握了第二個填這個"},{"start":26706.829,"end":26733.604,"text":"自主檢核表也不是什麼不法的東西因為依照執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的附錄6本來就有這個自主檢核表但為什麼這件事情我要提出質詢這個不法侵害行為自主檢核表裡面來請部長看一下左下角這個檢核表有要求填表的人要署名嗎"},{"start":26735.865,"end":26738.506,"text":"這個檢核表適合要求人要署名嗎?這個都是勞動部的法規這個法規叫做執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引裡面有個附錄6職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表你們誰業務熟的上來幫部長一下好不好"},{"start":26759.452,"end":26767.597,"text":"該委員報告我們這個直營的自合組檢核表下面並沒有寫並沒有填那個姓名職稱那個的欄位應該要叫他們填名字嗎"},{"start":26768.835,"end":26793.2,"text":"我覺得看機關自己內部的一些做法我覺得還是有可以彈性的討論的等一下等一下等一下當你講齁這個彈性的討論對不起我就沒辦法接受囉因為這個是我們提供給事業單位做參與使用他們做自己的內部的那個調查是啊是啊那你覺得應不應該要大家署名呢我們沒有要求在這文件裡面暫時署長我們沒有要求大家署名"},{"start":26794.06,"end":26818.837,"text":"這個就是我的重點來他們實際下面發下去的是什麼實際下面發下去的在你們公告給社會看到的表格裡面他們發下去的表格竟然自己寫了填表者要大家署名部長你覺得這樣適合嗎這是我剛才說的想要了解想要去做一些調查但是這些調查的過程它的形式上這個合不合適這當然我們都可以檢討的"},{"start":26820.412,"end":26845.43,"text":"而在這邊齁部長說可以檢討但我希望部長回去瞭解了以後要有個基本的態度我為什麼說要有個基本的態度因為北分署的同仁他們為什麼會陳情到我這邊來他們當初看到這個檢核表的時候大家都傻眼阿要簽名欸要簽名欸這種東西如果要簽名的話誰敢表達他自己的爭議阿"},{"start":26847.387,"end":26872.327,"text":"在規範上面我必須要說為什麼當初的檢核表沒有設計這個簽名你發的對象絕對是署內的同仁沒有錯嘛你不可能發去路邊給路人嘛既然你要調查署內同仁的意義的想法那你就要讓大家有自由表意的空間嘛這個是為什麼當初在這個表格裡面沒有要大家寫填標則嘛"},{"start":26873.268,"end":26886.003,"text":"但當事發了以後事發了以後為什麼北分署的同仁大家會憤怒大家會不滿你發下來這個表上面竟然要大家填表這樣好嗎"},{"start":26887.846,"end":26915.745,"text":"歡迎我同意如果要求大家署名的話會有你剛才說的顧慮好需不需要署名這件事情我希望部裡面有一個統一的原則而不是按照剛剛另外一位長官所講的什麼各機關彈性調整這樣子的話那以後你開創了這個不應該開創的空間對於這個自主檢核表他目的的達成以及填寫同仁自主意願的表達顯然是會造成障礙的"},{"start":26916.405,"end":26925.723,"text":"部長可不可以同意我最後主席我再坐一分鐘可以嗎?30秒好啦你別那麼吵啦"},{"start":26928.902,"end":26940.708,"text":"那第二個事情這個是2023年12月26號北分署的會議記錄在那個會議記錄裡面去記載了什麼他說本分署DNA是要務實解決問題對於風氣、性騷、職場霸凌、絕對零容忍我們一定從速從重處理而這個會議的主席就是當時的分署長謝一龍"},{"start":26958.103,"end":26984.843,"text":"我看到這個會議記錄啊我必須要跟部長說啊我看了這是無比的諷刺無比的諷刺這是2023年12月26號依照上一次勞動部所出具連部長前部長自己都承認不合格的調查報告當中都已經認定他有霸凌的事實結果他所主持的會議當中說本分署零容忍重訴重重處理"},{"start":26986.348,"end":27009.041,"text":"我把這個提出來並不是想要再一次的去批評或者是去譴責這個謝宜龍雖然再度批評或譴責也沒有什麼不對但我想要了解的實際的狀況是你們有沒有去理解或者是掌握資訊在他當分署長的任內針對職場霸凌有沒有出現過申訴案件有還是沒有檢視單位"},{"start":27017.025,"end":27046.35,"text":"因為我很好奇到底是沒有申訴案件還是有申訴結果不曉得被怎麼搞掉了因為分署長告訴所有署內的同仁是本分署零容忍重重處理歡迎我可以說如果就算沒有申訴案件也是因為我們內部在相關處理的機制是有問題的沒有關係你先不用跟我講如果就是客觀的事實有還是沒有先回答這個就好了"},{"start":27047.824,"end":27075.711,"text":"跟委員報告北分署的話在112年有霸凌的申訴案件是三件那113年呢113年也是三件那最後的結果呢都是沒有成立都是沒有處理那我現在再問一下那個112年的三件跟113年的三件如果是不成立是不是各有調查報告應該要有吧那這個總共六份調查報告可以提供嗎"},{"start":27080.109,"end":27081.89,"text":"最後一個問題真的是最後一個問題齁"},{"start":27101.786,"end":27125.998,"text":"因為我在今年2024年1月2號北分署的會議紀錄又看到了說我們分署採購案被勞動部積合計有羅列26項缺失然後分署長謝宜龍說要大家多加注意那我看到這個會議紀錄那顯然是什麼北分署"},{"start":27127.065,"end":27147.37,"text":"在辦採購的時候他出現的問題勞動部之前已經什麼 集合到了有26項缺失那我好奇的事情是勞動部已經集合到了那為什麼謝怡榮他在當分署長任內的時候所辦理的採購案到目前為止浮上水面的"},{"start":27147.95,"end":27159.52,"text":"又這麼多問題針對勞動部集合所羅列的那26項缺失的內容是不是可以請勞動部事後提供可以可以嗎需要多久"},{"start":27163.698,"end":27180.593,"text":"好沒有問題那回復的時候拜託順便講一件事針對這26項缺失集合出來了以後那然後呢接下來發生什麼事呃黃委員剛剛秘書處跟我說明說其實這集合的缺失常常是程序上面有瑕疵"},{"start":27180.953,"end":27198.27,"text":"沒有關係我看了26項了以後具體一樣一樣看因為我喜歡本於事實討論等到我拿到白紙黑字的東西羅列那26項缺失有什麼問題我們再來看當初為什麼勞動部有集合出來但是後續"},{"start":27199.571,"end":27209.008,"text":"是不是有處理我現在沒有下任何定論所以我剛請你們一併回應26項缺失有沒有處理是沒有必要處理還是實際的狀況是什麼一併回覆這樣可以嗎"},{"start":27213.156,"end":27235.825,"text":"通常我們集合出來如果有缺失的話能夠立即改正就會請他們立即改正那如果就是說已經事情無法改正了以後我們就次年的時候會再度再次集合類似案件沒有關係啊你們的26項缺失是什麼後續處理的行動是什麼我們有了具體的內容以後下一階段再來檢討會比較清楚一點這樣可以嗎"},{"start":27246.171,"end":27262.456,"text":"本日會議詢討全部結束委員盧憲一、徐宇貞、張雅玲所提書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報現在作以下決定報告及詢討完畢委員執行為及答覆或請補充資料者"},{"start":27263.78,"end":27275.622,"text":"請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另行要求期限者從其鎖定本日會議到此結束 散會"},{"start":27295.148,"end":27296.029,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"16335","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16335","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db323e8eb5774d58bea74692de86cf8f7fa82e37f9ba35fd7741e6ac167dac13675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分。\n二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金。(處理)【12月4日及5日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:30:39+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:48:00+08:00","duration":26241,"影片長度":"07:17:21","委員發言時間":"08:30:39 - 15:48:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-2-19-19"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1765.6453437500002,"end":1765.6622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":1765.6622187500002,"end":1765.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1766.2190937500002,"end":1766.2359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":1766.2359687500002,"end":1767.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":1768.83471875,"end":1772.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1772.47971875,"end":1772.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1774.89284375,"end":1778.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1779.8878437500002,"end":1794.9065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1795.0415937500002,"end":1797.6065937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1798.1297187500002,"end":1800.9984687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1801.1503437500003,"end":1803.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1804.3228437500002,"end":1810.2628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1810.3472187500001,"end":1815.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1816.1690937500002,"end":1834.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1836.18284375,"end":1838.6297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1839.13596875,"end":1840.5197187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1841.12721875,"end":1856.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":1857.15846875,"end":1863.8072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1866.6084687500002,"end":1866.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1867.9247187500002,"end":1869.7303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1869.9159687500003,"end":1872.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1873.1222187500002,"end":1875.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1875.29909375,"end":1882.2515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1883.1965937500001,"end":1885.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1886.53784375,"end":1890.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1891.0772187500002,"end":1892.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1893.28784375,"end":1896.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1897.2703437500002,"end":1899.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1899.5822187500003,"end":1899.9872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1900.32471875,"end":1901.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1902.3159687500001,"end":1906.8553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1907.6653437500001,"end":1909.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1909.2853437500003,"end":1912.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1912.7953437500003,"end":1914.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1915.91721875,"end":1921.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1921.7897187500002,"end":1924.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1924.7597187500003,"end":1926.8015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1927.3415937500001,"end":1929.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1929.5522187500003,"end":1932.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1932.4715937500002,"end":1933.1634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1933.4840937500003,"end":1933.8722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1934.2265937500001,"end":1938.3609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1938.9009687500002,"end":1940.7572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1941.4322187500002,"end":1945.7015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1945.9884687500003,"end":1946.6297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1947.3722187500002,"end":1951.4390937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1951.8440937500002,"end":1953.6665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":1954.1390937500003,"end":1957.3959687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1957.96971875,"end":1965.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1965.6815937500003,"end":1967.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1968.1790937500002,"end":1970.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1970.3222187500003,"end":1974.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1974.43971875,"end":1977.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1977.7303437500002,"end":1980.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1980.9872187500002,"end":1984.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1984.6659687500003,"end":1993.2553437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1993.3397187500002,"end":1995.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1996.1240937500002,"end":1996.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":1996.9678437500002,"end":2003.0765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2003.2959687500002,"end":2004.3422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2004.79784375,"end":2011.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2011.98659375,"end":2014.8890937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2015.78346875,"end":2018.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2018.6353437500002,"end":2021.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2021.4365937500002,"end":2024.2715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2024.5415937500002,"end":2026.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2027.0897187500002,"end":2029.1147187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2029.4522187500002,"end":2031.6290937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2031.8990937500002,"end":2033.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2034.1434687500002,"end":2039.1047187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2039.5772187500002,"end":2044.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2045.2134687500002,"end":2049.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2050.1072187500004,"end":2053.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2053.6003437500003,"end":2059.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2059.6922187500004,"end":2060.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2061.24471875,"end":2064.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2065.3622187500005,"end":2068.9903437499997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2069.2265937500006,"end":2070.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2071.40346875,"end":2074.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2075.80784375,"end":2079.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2079.7059687500005,"end":2082.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2082.97971875,"end":2086.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2087.08034375,"end":2093.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2093.6278437500005,"end":2096.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2096.96909375,"end":2102.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2102.75721875,"end":2104.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2104.4278437500006,"end":2106.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2106.5878437500005,"end":2109.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2109.4734687500004,"end":2111.8865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2111.9540937500005,"end":2116.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2116.3415937500004,"end":2118.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2119.3622187500005,"end":2122.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2122.2647187500006,"end":2127.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2128.5084687500002,"end":2132.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2132.96346875,"end":2134.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2134.93784375,"end":2135.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2135.83221875,"end":2139.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2140.6415937500005,"end":2141.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2141.92409375,"end":2143.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2143.7803437500006,"end":2146.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2146.56471875,"end":2150.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2150.47971875,"end":2152.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2153.12909375,"end":2156.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2156.47034375,"end":2159.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2159.76096875,"end":2163.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2163.9628437500005,"end":2167.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2167.48971875,"end":2169.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2169.8015937500004,"end":2171.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2171.6240937500006,"end":2175.4209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2175.6572187500005,"end":2178.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2178.8465937500005,"end":2182.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2183.40284375,"end":2186.3222187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2186.3897187500006,"end":2188.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2188.6678437500004,"end":2195.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2195.6709687500006,"end":2200.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2201.29034375,"end":2206.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2206.5047187500004,"end":2208.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2209.0528437500006,"end":2212.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2213.1365937500004,"end":2214.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2215.0772187500006,"end":2219.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2220.27471875,"end":2226.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2227.46346875,"end":2229.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2229.8934687500005,"end":2234.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2235.4284687500003,"end":2239.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2240.05221875,"end":2242.4315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2242.76909375,"end":2245.1315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2245.65471875,"end":2249.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2250.1434687500005,"end":2253.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2254.2947187500004,"end":2259.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2259.4922187500006,"end":2261.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2262.0234687500006,"end":2264.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2264.7740937500002,"end":2269.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2270.24159375,"end":2274.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2274.7303437500004,"end":2276.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2277.5653437500005,"end":2281.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2281.63221875,"end":2284.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2285.24346875,"end":2288.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2288.61846875,"end":2292.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2292.5672187500004,"end":2296.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2296.81971875,"end":2300.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2300.8359687500006,"end":2304.5147187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2304.8690937500005,"end":2308.6153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2309.0709687500002,"end":2312.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2312.8172187500004,"end":2314.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2315.38221875,"end":2316.8672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2317.32284375,"end":2321.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2321.65971875,"end":2326.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2327.31284375,"end":2330.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2331.0928437500006,"end":2333.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2333.59034375,"end":2336.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2338.45034375,"end":2344.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2344.0528437500006,"end":2345.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2346.4997187500003,"end":2365.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2365.88909375,"end":2372.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2372.5547187500006,"end":2376.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2377.0772187500006,"end":2379.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2379.50721875,"end":2386.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2387.1853437500004,"end":2390.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2391.15096875,"end":2399.1159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2399.20034375,"end":2407.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2408.00909375,"end":2410.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2411.14784375,"end":2413.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2413.84784375,"end":2414.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2414.82659375,"end":2416.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2416.7840937500005,"end":2419.4840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2420.54721875,"end":2424.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2424.69846875,"end":2429.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2429.28846875,"end":2433.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2434.46909375,"end":2436.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2436.94971875,"end":2441.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2441.57346875,"end":2446.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2447.37846875,"end":2450.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2451.22596875,"end":2451.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2452.35659375,"end":2454.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2454.55034375,"end":2460.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2461.18221875,"end":2463.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2463.6628437500003,"end":2467.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2468.4215937500003,"end":2468.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2469.3328437500004,"end":2470.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2470.9528437500003,"end":2482.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2482.49534375,"end":2485.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2486.2584687500002,"end":2489.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2490.03846875,"end":2494.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2494.81409375,"end":2501.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2501.6484687500006,"end":2503.8084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2504.51721875,"end":2506.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2506.96409375,"end":2510.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2510.47409375,"end":2512.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2512.58346875,"end":2514.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2514.9459687500002,"end":2517.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2517.7303437500004,"end":2526.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2526.7078437500004,"end":2527.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2527.6865937500006,"end":2533.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2533.8965937500006,"end":2535.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2536.56284375,"end":2537.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2538.1153437500006,"end":2540.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2540.52846875,"end":2541.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2541.45659375,"end":2543.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2543.38034375,"end":2549.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2549.77596875,"end":2551.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2551.9022187500004,"end":2554.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2555.6484687500006,"end":2561.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2562.11159375,"end":2563.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2563.69784375,"end":2566.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2567.1403437500003,"end":2567.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2567.9334687500004,"end":2568.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2569.1990937500004,"end":2570.8359687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2571.4940937500005,"end":2574.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2575.2909687500005,"end":2577.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2577.72096875,"end":2580.1172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2580.3365937500002,"end":2585.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2585.75346875,"end":2587.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2588.3015937500004,"end":2592.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2593.26284375,"end":2597.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2598.34221875,"end":2602.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2602.25721875,"end":2606.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2606.4590937500006,"end":2608.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2609.14221875,"end":2610.4753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2610.86346875,"end":2613.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2614.25534375,"end":2617.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2617.1747187500005,"end":2619.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2619.72284375,"end":2623.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2623.82346875,"end":2628.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2628.5653437500005,"end":2631.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2631.6872187500003,"end":2633.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2634.2353437500005,"end":2636.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2636.5809687500005,"end":2641.0865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2642.1834687500004,"end":2645.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2645.7272187500002,"end":2648.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2648.35971875,"end":2649.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2649.8953437500004,"end":2650.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2651.2115937500002,"end":2654.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2654.9747187500006,"end":2656.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2656.62846875,"end":2665.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2665.5553437500002,"end":2668.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2669.3015937500004,"end":2671.3097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2671.69784375,"end":2675.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2676.32159375,"end":2680.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2680.8272187500006,"end":2685.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2685.4509687500004,"end":2689.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2689.3828437500006,"end":2690.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2691.0703437500006,"end":2692.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2693.2303437500004,"end":2696.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2696.82471875,"end":2700.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2701.22909375,"end":2703.0515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2703.4903437500006,"end":2706.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2706.7809687500003,"end":2710.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2710.91534375,"end":2712.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2712.78846875,"end":2717.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2718.15471875,"end":2720.0615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2720.4834687500006,"end":2722.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2723.21721875,"end":2727.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2727.5372187500006,"end":2730.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2730.69284375,"end":2736.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2736.46409375,"end":2740.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2740.5984687500004,"end":2742.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2743.0790937500005,"end":2745.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2745.2897187500002,"end":2749.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2749.2890937500006,"end":2751.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2751.85409375,"end":2755.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2755.9715937500005,"end":2757.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2758.8740937500006,"end":2763.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2764.1222187500007,"end":2768.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2768.3915937500005,"end":2774.4665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2774.73659375,"end":2776.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2776.23846875,"end":2779.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2780.42346875,"end":2782.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2782.76909375,"end":2785.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2786.2284687500005,"end":2788.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2788.48971875,"end":2790.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2790.8522187500002,"end":2794.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2794.98659375,"end":2799.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2800.23471875,"end":2803.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2804.2340937500003,"end":2806.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2807.05221875,"end":2808.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2809.4147187500002,"end":2811.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2811.55784375,"end":2814.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2814.76409375,"end":2819.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2819.9109687500004,"end":2821.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2821.34534375,"end":2823.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2824.0622187500003,"end":2827.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2828.1122187500005,"end":2831.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2831.6559687500003,"end":2834.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2834.76096875,"end":2840.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2840.38034375,"end":2843.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2843.6709687500006,"end":2844.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2844.6328437500006,"end":2849.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2849.47596875,"end":2852.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2853.39096875,"end":2854.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2854.47096875,"end":2856.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2856.52971875,"end":2859.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2860.25909375,"end":2863.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2864.1572187500005,"end":2866.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2868.1228437500004,"end":2869.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2869.8778437500005,"end":2877.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2877.4209687500006,"end":2879.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2879.96909375,"end":2883.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2884.3397187500004,"end":2886.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2886.76971875,"end":2888.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2889.1490937500002,"end":2893.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2893.8572187500004,"end":2900.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2900.70846875,"end":2904.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2905.1803437500002,"end":2907.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2907.93096875,"end":2910.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2910.4453437500006,"end":2911.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2912.2340937500003,"end":2914.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2915.6090937500003,"end":2917.6847187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2917.98846875,"end":2921.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2922.2578437500006,"end":2928.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2929.26096875,"end":2935.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2935.47096875,"end":2938.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2938.8965937500006,"end":2940.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2941.2422187500006,"end":2943.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2943.8240937500004,"end":2948.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2948.68409375,"end":2953.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2953.9659687500007,"end":2957.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2958.1678437500004,"end":2960.9522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2961.20534375,"end":2963.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2964.2428437500002,"end":2966.2340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2967.8709687500004,"end":2968.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2969.2715937500006,"end":2969.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2970.36846875,"end":2971.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2971.4315937500005,"end":2976.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2977.4053437500006,"end":2983.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2983.5984687500004,"end":2986.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2987.1084687500006,"end":2990.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2991.39471875,"end":2992.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2993.03159375,"end":2995.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2996.3728437500004,"end":2998.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":2999.0222187500003,"end":3004.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3004.8103437500004,"end":3007.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3008.21909375,"end":3014.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3014.8678437500002,"end":3017.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3017.6522187500004,"end":3021.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3022.14096875,"end":3025.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3026.3259687500004,"end":3027.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3028.35096875,"end":3030.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3030.8990937500002,"end":3031.5740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3031.96221875,"end":3034.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3035.2022187500006,"end":3037.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3037.26096875,"end":3038.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3039.1003437500003,"end":3042.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3042.9647187500004,"end":3043.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3043.79159375,"end":3045.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3046.0359687500004,"end":3048.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3049.1072187500004,"end":3051.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3052.4147187500002,"end":3057.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3058.1690937500007,"end":3062.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3062.6072187500004,"end":3065.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3065.6784687500003,"end":3069.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3069.9815937500007,"end":3072.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3072.9347187500007,"end":3078.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3079.02659375,"end":3080.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3080.37659375,"end":3086.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3086.50221875,"end":3089.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3089.6072187500004,"end":3090.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3092.0372187500006,"end":3093.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3094.1972187500005,"end":3094.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3095.07471875,"end":3095.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3095.91846875,"end":3098.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3099.0065937500003,"end":3105.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3106.39784375,"end":3108.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3108.7772187500004,"end":3111.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3111.94971875,"end":3112.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3113.0465937500003,"end":3116.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3116.35409375,"end":3119.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3120.4715937500005,"end":3122.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3123.01971875,"end":3126.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3127.18784375,"end":3127.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3128.1834687500004,"end":3132.8240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3133.1953437500006,"end":3136.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3137.73471875,"end":3141.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3142.2403437500006,"end":3148.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3148.21409375,"end":3148.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3148.83846875,"end":3154.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3154.86284375,"end":3155.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3155.9090937500005,"end":3158.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3158.96346875,"end":3162.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3162.9459687500002,"end":3165.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3166.3378437500005,"end":3166.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3166.9959687500004,"end":3169.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3169.67909375,"end":3171.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3171.8728437500004,"end":3172.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3173.29034375,"end":3175.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3175.4840937500003,"end":3176.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3177.2559687500006,"end":3184.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3184.98471875,"end":3189.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3189.8953437500004,"end":3195.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3195.7509687500005,"end":3198.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3199.5984687500004,"end":3203.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3203.8847187500005,"end":3205.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3205.7072187500007,"end":3206.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3206.63534375,"end":3208.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3209.2509687500005,"end":3216.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3217.0978437500007,"end":3219.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3219.8653437500006,"end":3223.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3224.0840937500006,"end":3225.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3226.0078437500006,"end":3228.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3228.62346875,"end":3232.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3233.09534375,"end":3237.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3237.8034687500003,"end":3244.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3246.3759687500005,"end":3252.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3252.85596875,"end":3255.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3255.9609687500006,"end":3259.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3259.6397187500006,"end":3264.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3264.5840937500006,"end":3265.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3265.4784687500005,"end":3266.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3266.9803437500004,"end":3270.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3271.0978437500007,"end":3271.6378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3272.0597187500007,"end":3272.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3272.49846875,"end":3274.3209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3274.67534375,"end":3278.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3278.7422187500006,"end":3280.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3280.8347187500003,"end":3283.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3283.4840937500003,"end":3284.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3285.4753437500003,"end":3287.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3288.0909687500007,"end":3288.8165937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3289.2384687500007,"end":3294.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3294.90846875,"end":3295.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3296.0390937500006,"end":3298.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3298.70534375,"end":3300.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3300.51096875,"end":3302.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3303.0253437500005,"end":3305.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3305.77596875,"end":3306.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3306.6872187500003,"end":3308.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3308.77971875,"end":3311.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3311.66534375,"end":3314.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3314.9728437500007,"end":3317.6053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3318.11159375,"end":3322.5665937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3323.12346875,"end":3327.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3327.9159687500005,"end":3331.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3332.3203437500006,"end":3332.8434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3333.5859687500006,"end":3336.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3336.85971875,"end":3338.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3338.78346875,"end":3346.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3346.44471875,"end":3348.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3349.2628437500007,"end":3355.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3355.1690937500007,"end":3356.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3356.82284375,"end":3361.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3361.86846875,"end":3364.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3364.9903437500006,"end":3367.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3369.34409375,"end":3376.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3376.58346875,"end":3380.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3381.2578437500006,"end":3382.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3383.0128437500007,"end":3383.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3383.0634687500005,"end":3384.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3384.95346875,"end":3386.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3386.75909375,"end":3389.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3390.4209687500006,"end":3391.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3391.3828437500006,"end":3396.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3396.8672187500006,"end":3400.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3400.51221875,"end":3402.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3403.39784375,"end":3406.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3406.4353437500004,"end":3409.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3410.2322187500004,"end":3415.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3416.23971875,"end":3418.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3419.1759687500007,"end":3419.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3420.0028437500005,"end":3422.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3422.44971875,"end":3429.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3429.73971875,"end":3432.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3432.76034375,"end":3435.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3435.88221875,"end":3438.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3438.4978437500004,"end":3443.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3444.1678437500004,"end":3446.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3447.15471875,"end":3451.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3451.32284375,"end":3453.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3454.15784375,"end":3458.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3458.30909375,"end":3461.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3461.85284375,"end":3465.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3465.64971875,"end":3468.2653437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3468.73784375,"end":3469.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3469.93596875,"end":3472.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3473.2265937500006,"end":3475.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3476.07846875,"end":3477.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3478.2890937500006,"end":3480.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3482.10284375,"end":3485.0897187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3485.61284375,"end":3489.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3489.9665937500004,"end":3493.5440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3493.9997187500003,"end":3495.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3495.9403437500005,"end":3498.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3498.3534687500005,"end":3499.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3499.5684687500006,"end":3504.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3504.9853437500005,"end":3508.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3509.4403437500005,"end":3510.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3510.5878437500005,"end":3513.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3513.87846875,"end":3517.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3517.8103437500004,"end":3518.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3519.04221875,"end":3522.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3522.72096875,"end":3523.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3523.7334687500006,"end":3529.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3529.5553437500002,"end":3532.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3533.09909375,"end":3533.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3534.17909375,"end":3536.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3536.5753437500007,"end":3542.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3542.66721875,"end":3543.5447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3543.71346875,"end":3546.4472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3547.56096875,"end":3550.7334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3551.35784375,"end":3554.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3554.8172187500004,"end":3557.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3558.41159375,"end":3561.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3561.2803437500006,"end":3564.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3565.2965937500003,"end":3567.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3568.18221875,"end":3569.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3569.6334687500002,"end":3573.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3573.7509687500005,"end":3576.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3576.73784375,"end":3579.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3580.3828437500006,"end":3585.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3585.6140937500004,"end":3589.6640937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3590.0184687500005,"end":3591.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3591.5709687500002,"end":3594.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3594.45659375,"end":3596.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3596.85284375,"end":3597.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3598.3884687500004,"end":3601.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3601.81409375,"end":3603.8053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3604.1090937500003,"end":3605.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3606.3028437500006,"end":3609.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3609.5428437500004,"end":3612.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3613.1034687500005,"end":3615.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3615.8709687500004,"end":3618.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3618.5709687500002,"end":3621.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3621.9628437500005,"end":3623.3972187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3623.7009687500004,"end":3627.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3627.97034375,"end":3633.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3634.11284375,"end":3636.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3636.8972187500003,"end":3637.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3638.1628437500003,"end":3640.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3641.0147187500006,"end":3644.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3645.0478437500005,"end":3648.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3648.62534375,"end":3652.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3652.6415937500005,"end":3654.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3655.32471875,"end":3656.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3656.8097187500007,"end":3663.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3663.9140937500006,"end":3665.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3666.47909375,"end":3669.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3669.78659375,"end":3674.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3674.30909375,"end":3677.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3678.71346875,"end":3681.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3682.37534375,"end":3684.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3685.1090937500003,"end":3685.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3685.44659375,"end":3686.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3686.9990937500006,"end":3689.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3689.37846875,"end":3692.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3693.1247187500003,"end":3696.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3696.5840937500006,"end":3697.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3697.98471875,"end":3699.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3699.8409687500007,"end":3700.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3700.88721875,"end":3701.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3702.0009687500005,"end":3703.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3704.26221875,"end":3706.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3706.9284687500003,"end":3712.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3712.21034375,"end":3715.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3715.6190937500005,"end":3717.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3718.16721875,"end":3719.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3719.2978437500005,"end":3724.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3724.9509687500004,"end":3725.4572187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3725.6259687500005,"end":3733.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3733.5065937500003,"end":3736.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3737.3878437500007,"end":3737.7928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3738.13034375,"end":3739.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3740.2228437500007,"end":3745.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3745.5047187500004,"end":3747.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3747.4959687500004,"end":3752.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3753.36846875,"end":3756.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3757.0809687500005,"end":3760.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3761.5359687500004,"end":3767.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3767.9822187500004,"end":3771.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3771.4922187500006,"end":3772.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3772.7409687500003,"end":3774.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3774.5634687500005,"end":3775.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3775.4072187500005,"end":3778.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3779.0353437500007,"end":3783.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3784.28346875,"end":3788.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3788.7384687500007,"end":3791.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3792.8053437500002,"end":3793.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3794.2059687500005,"end":3795.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3795.80909375,"end":3802.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3803.0147187500006,"end":3805.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3805.5290937500004,"end":3809.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3810.1865937500006,"end":3814.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3814.72596875,"end":3817.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3817.98284375,"end":3819.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3819.97409375,"end":3821.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3822.25221875,"end":3824.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3825.1378437500007,"end":3828.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3828.47909375,"end":3831.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3832.2253437500003,"end":3834.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3835.04346875,"end":3837.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3838.0303437500006,"end":3839.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3840.1903437500005,"end":3844.4259687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3845.0840937500006,"end":3850.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3851.14221875,"end":3853.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3853.53846875,"end":3856.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3856.84596875,"end":3858.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3858.9890937500004,"end":3860.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3860.40659375,"end":3861.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3861.79034375,"end":3866.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3866.4647187500004,"end":3868.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3868.7597187500005,"end":3869.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3870.22784375,"end":3873.8390937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3874.3622187500005,"end":3875.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3875.89784375,"end":3878.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3878.6315937500003,"end":3881.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3882.1415937500005,"end":3885.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3886.14096875,"end":3893.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3894.2409687500003,"end":3895.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3895.67534375,"end":3897.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3898.39221875,"end":3900.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3901.32846875,"end":3902.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3902.7459687500004,"end":3904.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3904.88909375,"end":3910.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3910.86284375,"end":3915.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3915.4022187500004,"end":3916.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3917.0897187500004,"end":3922.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3922.54034375,"end":3925.6959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3926.16846875,"end":3927.1134687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3927.9572187500007,"end":3932.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3932.3447187500005,"end":3933.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3933.9140937500006,"end":3937.3397187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3937.6434687500005,"end":3940.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3941.3053437500002,"end":3945.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3945.92909375,"end":3948.7303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3948.7472187500007,"end":3949.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3950.33346875,"end":3956.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3957.5222187500003,"end":3960.6609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3960.99846875,"end":3963.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3963.58034375,"end":3964.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3964.8965937500006,"end":3966.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3966.3478437500007,"end":3967.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3968.00159375,"end":3970.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3970.65096875,"end":3974.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3975.4434687500006,"end":3982.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3982.6659687500005,"end":3985.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3986.2265937500006,"end":3991.0528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3991.5253437500005,"end":3992.6222187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3992.89221875,"end":3994.5459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3994.9003437500005,"end":3996.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3996.36846875,"end":3996.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":3997.6678437500004,"end":3999.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4000.84034375,"end":4001.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4002.59534375,"end":4012.1972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4012.8553437500004,"end":4014.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4014.7115937500002,"end":4019.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4019.87534375,"end":4021.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4021.57971875,"end":4028.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4028.7009687500004,"end":4031.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4032.1940937500003,"end":4037.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4037.30721875,"end":4041.0197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4041.1209687500004,"end":4042.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4042.89284375,"end":4047.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4048.39409375,"end":4052.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4053.1865937500006,"end":4060.4597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4060.74659375,"end":4069.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4070.2472187500007,"end":4073.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4073.99346875,"end":4074.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4075.09034375,"end":4075.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4076.11971875,"end":4077.4022187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4078.6172187500006,"end":4087.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4087.2909687500005,"end":4099.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4100.436593750001,"end":4102.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4102.7822187500005,"end":4109.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4109.802218750001,"end":4116.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4116.889718750001,"end":4119.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4119.505343750001,"end":4126.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4126.69409375,"end":4128.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4129.157843749999,"end":4130.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4130.27159375,"end":4133.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4133.30909375,"end":4136.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4136.329718749999,"end":4140.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4140.497843749999,"end":4142.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4142.809718750001,"end":4145.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4145.54346875,"end":4147.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4147.247843749999,"end":4156.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4157.67659375,"end":4164.510968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4164.89909375,"end":4171.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4171.41284375,"end":4173.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4174.04534375,"end":4176.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4176.593468749999,"end":4177.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4178.02784375,"end":4181.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4181.470343749999,"end":4188.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4189.013468749999,"end":4193.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4194.29534375,"end":4195.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4195.493468750001,"end":4199.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4199.93159375,"end":4204.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4205.483468750001,"end":4208.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4208.942843750001,"end":4209.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4210.19159375,"end":4212.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4213.17846875,"end":4220.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4220.53596875,"end":4222.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4222.45971875,"end":4228.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4228.70346875,"end":4232.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4232.9559687500005,"end":4235.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4236.415343750001,"end":4239.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4239.72284375,"end":4242.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4243.064093749999,"end":4247.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4247.890343749999,"end":4251.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4251.90659375,"end":4254.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4255.36596875,"end":4258.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4258.673468749999,"end":4263.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4264.3603437500005,"end":4268.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4268.562218749999,"end":4271.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4272.25784375,"end":4276.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4276.61159375,"end":4277.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4278.231593750001,"end":4280.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4281.06659375,"end":4283.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4283.22659375,"end":4287.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4291.073468750001,"end":4297.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4298.02596875,"end":4305.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4305.90659375,"end":4310.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4311.036593750001,"end":4312.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4313.280968749999,"end":4317.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4317.7528437500005,"end":4319.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4320.2840937500005,"end":4322.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4322.984093749999,"end":4326.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4326.71346875,"end":4327.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4327.6415937500005,"end":4331.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4333.7840937500005,"end":4344.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4344.5165937500005,"end":4346.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4347.25034375,"end":4351.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4352.39721875,"end":4354.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4355.046593749999,"end":4359.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4359.501593749999,"end":4363.534718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4363.8553437499995,"end":4368.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4369.170968750001,"end":4369.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4369.89659375,"end":4372.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4372.680968750001,"end":4376.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4377.743468750001,"end":4379.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4379.667218750001,"end":4382.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4383.29534375,"end":4389.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4389.96096875,"end":4395.732218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4396.120343750001,"end":4397.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4400.187218749999,"end":4401.503468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4402.46534375,"end":4402.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4403.055968750001,"end":4404.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4405.04721875,"end":4408.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4409.468468749999,"end":4412.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4412.522843750001,"end":4415.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4418.294093750001,"end":4422.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4423.10346875,"end":4427.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4428.0478437500005,"end":4429.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4430.30909375,"end":4436.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4437.16034375,"end":4446.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4446.880343750001,"end":4449.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4449.546593749999,"end":4452.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4453.14096875,"end":4456.769093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4457.325968749999,"end":4461.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4461.44346875,"end":4470.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4470.792218750001,"end":4474.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4475.41596875,"end":4476.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4476.05721875,"end":4480.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4480.64721875,"end":4483.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4485.11909375,"end":4487.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4487.7684687500005,"end":4489.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4490.13096875,"end":4494.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4495.4803437499995,"end":4497.454718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4497.555968750001,"end":4500.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4501.09971875,"end":4507.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4508.153468750001,"end":4509.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4510.077218750001,"end":4512.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4512.62534375,"end":4515.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4517.232218749999,"end":4523.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4524.15096875,"end":4528.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4528.538468750001,"end":4532.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4533.077843749999,"end":4533.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4534.579718749999,"end":4537.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4537.65096875,"end":4540.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4540.722218749999,"end":4543.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4544.68784375,"end":4549.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4550.104718750001,"end":4552.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4552.247843749999,"end":4554.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4554.779093749999,"end":4555.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4555.65659375,"end":4557.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4557.4959687499995,"end":4559.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4559.655968749999,"end":4561.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4561.967843750001,"end":4562.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4562.96346875,"end":4564.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4565.30909375,"end":4569.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4570.1522187499995,"end":4574.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4575.06284375,"end":4578.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4579.264718750001,"end":4580.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4580.294093750001,"end":4584.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4584.71534375,"end":4586.706593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4586.97659375,"end":4592.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4593.2372187500005,"end":4596.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4598.02971875,"end":4599.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4599.6834687499995,"end":4601.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4601.944718750001,"end":4606.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4607.1590937500005,"end":4609.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4609.36971875,"end":4612.440968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4612.997843749999,"end":4615.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4615.83284375,"end":4618.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4618.65096875,"end":4621.722218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4621.772843750001,"end":4626.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4627.4090937500005,"end":4630.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4631.3240937499995,"end":4635.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4636.31909375,"end":4637.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4637.854718750001,"end":4639.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4639.255343750001,"end":4642.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4642.88346875,"end":4646.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4646.528468750001,"end":4650.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4650.7303437499995,"end":4655.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4656.315968749999,"end":4661.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4661.68221875,"end":4664.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4664.44971875,"end":4665.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4665.4959687499995,"end":4668.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4668.702218750001,"end":4673.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4673.950343750001,"end":4675.722218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4676.07659375,"end":4679.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4679.97471875,"end":4682.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4683.417218750001,"end":4690.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4691.36534375,"end":4696.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4697.5584687499995,"end":4699.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4700.07284375,"end":4700.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4701.25409375,"end":4705.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4706.21534375,"end":4706.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4707.278468750001,"end":4709.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4710.045968750001,"end":4712.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4712.3915937500005,"end":4715.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4715.59784375,"end":4718.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":4719.360968749999,"end":4723.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4724.609093749999,"end":4724.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4726.17846875,"end":4729.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4731.747218750001,"end":4734.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4735.1728437500005,"end":4736.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4736.87721875,"end":4738.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4741.04534375,"end":4742.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4742.935343749999,"end":4743.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4745.55096875,"end":4748.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4749.702218750001,"end":4751.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4751.27159375,"end":4752.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4753.026593750001,"end":4760.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4760.468468749999,"end":4762.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4763.16846875,"end":4763.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4764.82221875,"end":4766.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4767.62346875,"end":4769.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4770.357218749999,"end":4773.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4774.3397187499995,"end":4776.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4777.09034375,"end":4777.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4778.77784375,"end":4780.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4781.427218750001,"end":4784.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4785.7303437499995,"end":4790.657843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4791.417218750001,"end":4792.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4793.560343749999,"end":4795.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4807.41471875,"end":4811.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4812.02159375,"end":4812.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4812.52784375,"end":4812.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4812.780968749999,"end":4812.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4812.966593749999,"end":4813.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4813.439093749999,"end":4814.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4814.95784375,"end":4828.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4829.16659375,"end":4831.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4832.25471875,"end":4858.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4858.56284375,"end":4867.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4867.827218750001,"end":4868.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4869.042218750001,"end":4869.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4869.24471875,"end":4869.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4869.970343749999,"end":4872.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4873.14284375,"end":4873.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4874.104718750001,"end":4876.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4876.7372187500005,"end":4877.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4876.956593750001,"end":4878.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4877.7665937500005,"end":4878.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4878.509093750001,"end":4878.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4878.559718750001,"end":4878.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4878.745343750001,"end":4879.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4879.99409375,"end":4880.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4880.989718750001,"end":4883.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4884.48284375,"end":4885.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4885.2928437499995,"end":4885.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4885.84971875,"end":4894.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4895.097218750001,"end":4896.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4897.05471875,"end":4897.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4898.624093750001,"end":4900.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4901.610968749999,"end":4903.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4902.52221875,"end":4902.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4902.876593749999,"end":4902.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4905.34034375,"end":4905.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4905.71159375,"end":4906.251593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4907.382218750001,"end":4908.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4909.00221875,"end":4912.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4912.74846875,"end":4918.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4919.86971875,"end":4926.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4926.72096875,"end":4929.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4930.214093750001,"end":4931.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4932.28971875,"end":4940.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4941.689093749999,"end":4943.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4944.186593750001,"end":4944.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4945.46909375,"end":4947.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":4947.76409375,"end":4948.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4950.43034375,"end":4952.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4953.417218750001,"end":4958.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4958.850968750001,"end":4962.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4963.204718749999,"end":4966.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4966.545968750001,"end":4971.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4971.96284375,"end":4975.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4976.02971875,"end":4979.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4979.944718750001,"end":4981.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4981.446593750001,"end":4983.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4983.57284375,"end":4986.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4987.065968750001,"end":4989.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4990.37346875,"end":4991.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4991.82471875,"end":4993.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4994.27159375,"end":4997.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":4997.3934687500005,"end":5004.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5004.649718750001,"end":5009.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5010.30284375,"end":5010.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5011.61909375,"end":5013.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5014.352843750001,"end":5018.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5019.61784375,"end":5023.3134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5023.65096875,"end":5024.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5025.186593750001,"end":5026.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5027.329718749999,"end":5029.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5029.590968750001,"end":5036.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5037.01596875,"end":5042.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5042.280968749999,"end":5045.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5045.436593750001,"end":5048.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5048.96346875,"end":5049.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5050.110968749999,"end":5051.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5052.01784375,"end":5052.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":5052.6590937500005,"end":5053.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5053.6884687500005,"end":5054.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5054.481593750001,"end":5058.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5058.1434687500005,"end":5058.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5058.76784375,"end":5060.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5060.387843750001,"end":5064.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5065.635968750001,"end":5071.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5071.74471875,"end":5079.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5078.20784375,"end":5078.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5079.3553437499995,"end":5079.979718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5079.979718750001,"end":5082.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5083.27034375,"end":5087.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5083.37159375,"end":5083.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5088.2822187500005,"end":5090.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5090.340968750001,"end":5091.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5091.67409375,"end":5095.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5095.52159375,"end":5095.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5095.75784375,"end":5101.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5101.815968750001,"end":5118.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5118.75846875,"end":5119.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5119.028468750001,"end":5125.4072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5125.592843750001,"end":5133.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5133.91221875,"end":5150.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5150.6522187499995,"end":5168.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5153.87534375,"end":5153.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5168.48909375,"end":5174.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5174.1590937500005,"end":5174.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5174.54721875,"end":5193.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5178.00659375,"end":5178.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5193.86909375,"end":5234.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5203.04909375,"end":5203.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5235.415343750001,"end":5237.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5238.4022187499995,"end":5245.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5245.540343750001,"end":5245.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5245.827218750001,"end":5252.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5247.885968750001,"end":5247.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5247.90284375,"end":5248.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5251.868468750001,"end":5254.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5254.062218749999,"end":5254.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5254.78784375,"end":5254.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5254.80471875,"end":5258.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5258.97284375,"end":5259.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5259.66471875,"end":5260.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5260.50846875,"end":5260.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5260.8290937500005,"end":5261.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5261.50409375,"end":5270.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5271.05534375,"end":5306.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5286.76596875,"end":5286.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5286.782843749999,"end":5286.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5286.90096875,"end":5286.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5286.9178437499995,"end":5286.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5286.934718750001,"end":5286.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5286.95159375,"end":5286.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5286.9853437500005,"end":5287.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5306.982218749999,"end":5320.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5321.798468749999,"end":5347.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5329.544093750001,"end":5330.235968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5330.4384687500005,"end":5330.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5330.573468750001,"end":5330.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5347.51596875,"end":5347.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5348.376593749999,"end":5349.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5349.67596875,"end":5349.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5349.96284375,"end":5350.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5350.030343750001,"end":5351.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5351.093468749999,"end":5351.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5351.565968750001,"end":5352.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5357.13471875,"end":5402.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5402.528468750001,"end":5404.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5405.02596875,"end":5406.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5407.05096875,"end":5431.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5432.54909375,"end":5438.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5438.472218750001,"end":5456.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5457.186593750001,"end":5459.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5460.274718750001,"end":5465.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5465.708468750001,"end":5473.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5473.99409375,"end":5480.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5480.59221875,"end":5501.517218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5502.19221875,"end":5516.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5516.046593749999,"end":5524.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5524.399718750001,"end":5530.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5530.18784375,"end":5532.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5533.157843749999,"end":5558.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5558.30159375,"end":5559.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5560.157843749999,"end":5561.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5561.03534375,"end":5561.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5561.339093750001,"end":5561.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5561.524718750001,"end":5561.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5561.609093749999,"end":5561.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5561.96346875,"end":5562.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5562.030968749999,"end":5562.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5563.110968749999,"end":5603.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5603.96534375,"end":5608.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5608.538468750001,"end":5611.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5611.69409375,"end":5646.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5647.18221875,"end":5650.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5650.9959687499995,"end":5655.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5655.653468750001,"end":5663.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5663.2978437500005,"end":5678.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5678.620343750001,"end":5698.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5699.5115937499995,"end":5701.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5702.26221875,"end":5719.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5719.74471875,"end":5725.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5725.448468750001,"end":5749.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5749.5965937500005,"end":5786.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5786.940968750001,"end":5795.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5796.28971875,"end":5798.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5798.567843750001,"end":5799.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5798.905343750001,"end":5803.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5803.98471875,"end":5804.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5804.102843750001,"end":5806.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5806.70159375,"end":5810.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5810.515343749999,"end":5810.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5810.58284375,"end":5810.717843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5810.717843750001,"end":5810.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5811.42659375,"end":5812.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5813.333468750001,"end":5815.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5814.497843749999,"end":5815.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5815.42596875,"end":5826.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5816.3709687499995,"end":5816.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5821.97346875,"end":5824.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5825.97284375,"end":5830.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5827.204718750001,"end":5827.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5828.63909375,"end":5830.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5830.967843750001,"end":5831.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5831.06909375,"end":5836.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5831.08596875,"end":5831.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5833.56659375,"end":5835.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5836.587218750001,"end":5841.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5841.970343750001,"end":5842.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5842.915343750001,"end":5845.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5845.37909375,"end":5846.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5847.134093750001,"end":5850.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5850.57659375,"end":5851.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5851.52159375,"end":5853.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5852.483468750001,"end":5853.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5853.86721875,"end":5856.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5855.30159375,"end":5870.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5859.99284375,"end":5862.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5862.405968749999,"end":5862.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5862.591593749999,"end":5862.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5862.96284375,"end":5864.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5864.667218750001,"end":5864.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5864.81909375,"end":5867.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5868.66659375,"end":5868.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5869.206593750001,"end":5892.780968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5893.27034375,"end":5894.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5894.95784375,"end":5897.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5897.657843750001,"end":5907.884093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5908.120343750001,"end":5911.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5911.64721875,"end":5913.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5914.65096875,"end":5920.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":5919.05534375,"end":5919.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5919.831593750001,"end":5919.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5920.253468750001,"end":5920.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5920.675343750001,"end":5920.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5920.962218750001,"end":5921.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5922.126593750001,"end":5924.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5925.43409375,"end":5934.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5934.934718750001,"end":5935.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5935.89659375,"end":5938.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5938.917218750001,"end":5947.304093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5947.60784375,"end":5950.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5950.780343750001,"end":5953.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5954.35784375,"end":5956.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5955.842843750001,"end":5955.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5955.8934687500005,"end":5956.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5957.057843750001,"end":5958.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5957.378468750001,"end":5958.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5959.13346875,"end":5959.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5959.589093750001,"end":5960.382218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5960.44971875,"end":5960.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5960.78721875,"end":5962.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5963.50409375,"end":5966.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5966.474093750001,"end":5970.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5971.2665937500005,"end":5973.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5974.33784375,"end":5994.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5987.39909375,"end":5989.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5989.03596875,"end":5989.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5989.27221875,"end":5989.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":5992.731593750001,"end":5999.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5995.60034375,"end":6001.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6000.15659375,"end":6008.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6007.80096875,"end":6012.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6010.905968749999,"end":6014.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6013.538468750001,"end":6014.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6014.77034375,"end":6018.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6018.8709687499995,"end":6020.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6020.72721875,"end":6020.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6021.368468750001,"end":6021.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6021.604718750001,"end":6067.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6021.62159375,"end":6022.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6022.78596875,"end":6022.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6068.16284375,"end":6137.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6138.00846875,"end":6142.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6143.526593750001,"end":6143.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6143.560343749999,"end":6143.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6143.610968750001,"end":6143.7459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6143.7459687499995,"end":6143.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6143.83034375,"end":6143.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6143.86409375,"end":6143.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6143.948468750001,"end":6143.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6143.96534375,"end":6152.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6152.35221875,"end":6155.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6155.372843749999,"end":6158.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6158.64659375,"end":6174.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6163.05096875,"end":6163.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6163.354718750001,"end":6165.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6168.5184687500005,"end":6169.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6170.948468750001,"end":6172.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6173.04096875,"end":6175.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6176.044718749999,"end":6178.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6179.36909375,"end":6182.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6183.09846875,"end":6195.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6187.401593750001,"end":6192.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6192.312218749999,"end":6193.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6195.2147187499995,"end":6198.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6199.36596875,"end":6200.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6200.665343750001,"end":6201.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6202.200968749999,"end":6202.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6203.2303437499995,"end":6204.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6205.28909375,"end":6206.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6206.2509687500005,"end":6210.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6207.39846875,"end":6210.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6210.452843749999,"end":6210.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6210.503468750001,"end":6210.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6210.52034375,"end":6226.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6213.034718750001,"end":6213.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6213.05159375,"end":6213.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6213.96284375,"end":6216.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6222.788468750001,"end":6224.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6224.03721875,"end":6228.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6228.644093750001,"end":6236.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6228.981593750001,"end":6229.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6230.432843750001,"end":6230.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6230.44971875,"end":6230.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6230.483468750001,"end":6230.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6230.87159375,"end":6230.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6230.97284375,"end":6231.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6233.92596875,"end":6234.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6236.06909375,"end":6236.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6236.372843749999,"end":6236.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6236.389718750001,"end":6240.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6236.474093750001,"end":6237.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6240.70971875,"end":6241.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6242.02596875,"end":6243.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6244.540343750001,"end":6245.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6245.02971875,"end":6246.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6246.86909375,"end":6248.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6248.607218749999,"end":6249.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6249.417218750001,"end":6252.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6252.1678437499995,"end":6252.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6252.25221875,"end":6253.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6253.23096875,"end":6253.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6253.484093749999,"end":6253.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6253.97346875,"end":6265.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6260.419718749999,"end":6260.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6260.807843750001,"end":6261.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6261.465968750001,"end":6266.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6266.44409375,"end":6276.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6269.07659375,"end":6269.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6273.413468750001,"end":6274.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6274.544093750001,"end":6274.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6276.40034375,"end":6279.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6276.974093750001,"end":6279.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6279.640343749999,"end":6279.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6279.72471875,"end":6286.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6279.741593750001,"end":6280.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6281.057843750001,"end":6281.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6281.20971875,"end":6281.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6283.04909375,"end":6283.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6283.065968750001,"end":6283.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6283.57221875,"end":6283.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6283.70721875,"end":6291.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6286.10346875,"end":6286.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6286.120343750001,"end":6286.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6287.284718750001,"end":6287.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6287.35221875,"end":6287.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6287.520968750001,"end":6287.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6287.97659375,"end":6288.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6288.044093750001,"end":6288.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6288.263468749999,"end":6288.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6288.43221875,"end":6288.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6288.48284375,"end":6288.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6288.58409375,"end":6288.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6288.66846875,"end":6288.685343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6288.685343749999,"end":6288.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6288.71909375,"end":6288.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6288.80346875,"end":6288.837218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6288.837218750001,"end":6288.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6288.95534375,"end":6289.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6289.00596875,"end":6289.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6290.72721875,"end":6293.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6291.7059687500005,"end":6297.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6293.5115937499995,"end":6293.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6293.528468750001,"end":6293.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6295.401593750001,"end":6295.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6295.97534375,"end":6299.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6299.0634687500005,"end":6300.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6300.44721875,"end":6303.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6301.814093750001,"end":6305.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6303.653468750001,"end":6303.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6303.839093750001,"end":6303.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6305.03721875,"end":6312.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6312.1415937500005,"end":6324.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6316.69784375,"end":6317.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6324.89909375,"end":6330.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6334.0115937499995,"end":6337.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6334.0790937500005,"end":6335.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6335.800343750001,"end":6335.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6337.97721875,"end":6346.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6345.52034375,"end":6349.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6346.347218750001,"end":6346.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6347.59596875,"end":6347.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6347.96721875,"end":6348.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6348.01784375,"end":6348.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6348.96284375,"end":6349.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6349.57034375,"end":6349.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6349.6209687499995,"end":6349.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6349.637843750001,"end":6349.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6349.89096875,"end":6353.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6353.58659375,"end":6354.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6353.620343750001,"end":6353.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6353.63721875,"end":6357.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6354.19409375,"end":6354.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6354.2615937499995,"end":6354.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6354.413468750001,"end":6354.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6354.43034375,"end":6354.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6354.48096875,"end":6354.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6354.548468750001,"end":6354.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6354.58221875,"end":6354.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6354.599093750001,"end":6396.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6396.837218750001,"end":6399.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6400.920968750001,"end":6402.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6403.114718750001,"end":6410.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6410.235968750001,"end":6411.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6412.19346875,"end":6413.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6412.817843750001,"end":6414.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6413.54346875,"end":6417.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6415.686593750001,"end":6415.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6415.7372187500005,"end":6415.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6415.88909375,"end":6415.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6415.9228437500005,"end":6416.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6418.57221875,"end":6420.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6420.52971875,"end":6423.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6420.61409375,"end":6421.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6422.68971875,"end":6424.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6423.5165937500005,"end":6426.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6425.22096875,"end":6429.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6429.38909375,"end":6431.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6433.13534375,"end":6434.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6437.06721875,"end":6440.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6441.25221875,"end":6441.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6441.75846875,"end":6442.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6443.091593749999,"end":6444.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6445.60596875,"end":6447.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6448.87971875,"end":6448.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6448.98096875,"end":6449.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6449.08221875,"end":6452.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6453.09846875,"end":6454.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6454.634093750001,"end":6460.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6461.78909375,"end":6466.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6467.475968750001,"end":6469.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6470.31096875,"end":6474.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6475.677218750001,"end":6477.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6478.05659375,"end":6478.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6479.08596875,"end":6483.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6483.96284375,"end":6484.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6484.73909375,"end":6485.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6486.274718750001,"end":6488.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6488.670968750001,"end":6490.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6491.03346875,"end":6492.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6492.450968749999,"end":6496.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6497.20971875,"end":6502.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6502.964093750001,"end":6504.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6505.3603437500005,"end":6509.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6509.8153437500005,"end":6511.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6511.874093750001,"end":6513.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6513.932843750001,"end":6517.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6518.202218750001,"end":6523.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6523.7372187500005,"end":6530.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6531.0272187499995,"end":6534.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6534.975968750001,"end":6538.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6539.17784375,"end":6542.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6542.31659375,"end":6542.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6542.4178437499995,"end":6551.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6551.952218750001,"end":6553.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6553.774718750001,"end":6557.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6556.997843749999,"end":6557.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6557.858468750001,"end":6557.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6557.892218750001,"end":6558.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6558.0272187499995,"end":6559.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6560.22096875,"end":6561.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6561.638468749999,"end":6580.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6581.41596875,"end":6588.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6589.1278437500005,"end":6597.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6597.5653437500005,"end":6606.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6606.94784375,"end":6615.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6616.22909375,"end":6622.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6621.02159375,"end":6621.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6622.202843749999,"end":6635.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6629.762843750001,"end":6629.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":6629.96534375,"end":6630.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6630.85971875,"end":6630.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6630.977843750001,"end":6631.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6634.622843749999,"end":6634.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6635.73659375,"end":6656.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":6636.9853437500005,"end":6637.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6637.069718750001,"end":6639.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6646.350968750001,"end":6650.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6656.189093750001,"end":6677.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6676.42221875,"end":6685.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6678.48096875,"end":6679.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6685.36596875,"end":6685.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6686.17596875,"end":6686.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6686.192843750001,"end":6687.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6688.116593750001,"end":6693.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6694.309718750001,"end":6694.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6695.22096875,"end":6695.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6695.74409375,"end":6701.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6699.034718750001,"end":6700.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6700.33409375,"end":6700.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6700.958468750001,"end":6700.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6700.97534375,"end":6701.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6702.325343750001,"end":6705.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6706.763468749999,"end":6708.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6710.50971875,"end":6710.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6710.526593750001,"end":6710.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6710.54346875,"end":6719.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6710.59409375,"end":6711.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6711.640343749999,"end":6712.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6715.60596875,"end":6723.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6719.03159375,"end":6721.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6723.975968750001,"end":6726.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6725.96721875,"end":6727.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6728.295968750001,"end":6734.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6730.97909375,"end":6731.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6732.24471875,"end":6732.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6733.814093750001,"end":6733.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6734.26971875,"end":6734.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6734.421593749999,"end":6758.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6758.97471875,"end":6759.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6760.13909375,"end":6760.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6760.155968749999,"end":6767.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6767.96909375,"end":6768.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6768.036593750001,"end":6768.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6768.05346875,"end":6768.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6768.087218750001,"end":6768.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":6768.795968750001,"end":6773.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6772.79534375,"end":6777.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6777.95909375,"end":6780.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6781.41846875,"end":6786.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6787.206593750001,"end":6789.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6790.46346875,"end":6793.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6793.80471875,"end":6795.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6795.47534375,"end":6799.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6799.6434687500005,"end":6804.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6805.1278437500005,"end":6806.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6808.38471875,"end":6811.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6811.92846875,"end":6811.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6813.34596875,"end":6822.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6813.43034375,"end":6814.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6823.217843750001,"end":6828.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6829.09034375,"end":6837.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6837.510968750001,"end":6839.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6839.991593750001,"end":6843.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6843.687218749999,"end":6872.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6872.560343749999,"end":6875.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6875.5809687500005,"end":6875.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":6875.59784375,"end":6875.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6875.850968750001,"end":6875.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6876.1884687500005,"end":6886.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6886.70159375,"end":6889.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6889.907843750001,"end":6892.590968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6892.8778437500005,"end":6895.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6895.74659375,"end":6901.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6901.09596875,"end":6902.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6903.52596875,"end":6904.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6904.589093750001,"end":6905.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6905.73659375,"end":6905.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6907.66034375,"end":6907.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6907.677218750001,"end":6910.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6910.46159375,"end":6913.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6914.140343750001,"end":6918.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6919.202843750001,"end":6920.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6921.24471875,"end":6925.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6927.083468750001,"end":6927.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6927.977843750001,"end":6928.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6928.14659375,"end":6935.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6936.179093750001,"end":6939.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6940.482218749999,"end":6947.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6948.413468750001,"end":6957.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6957.72846875,"end":6964.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6965.50784375,"end":6967.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6967.88721875,"end":6969.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6970.013468749999,"end":6972.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6972.49409375,"end":6979.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6980.25659375,"end":6984.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6984.86346875,"end":6986.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6987.5634687500005,"end":6990.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6991.022843750001,"end":6993.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6994.83659375,"end":6996.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6996.6590937500005,"end":7001.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7001.9072187500005,"end":7004.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7005.450968749999,"end":7006.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7006.210343750001,"end":7007.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7007.77971875,"end":7017.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7018.022843750001,"end":7019.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7019.474093750001,"end":7021.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7021.9715937500005,"end":7024.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7025.7684687500005,"end":7026.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7027.47284375,"end":7028.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7028.670968750001,"end":7030.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7031.26971875,"end":7033.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7033.868468750001,"end":7036.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7037.20971875,"end":7044.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7044.63471875,"end":7046.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7046.5584687499995,"end":7048.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7048.077218750001,"end":7050.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7051.18221875,"end":7051.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7052.02596875,"end":7064.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7065.66096875,"end":7067.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7067.854718750001,"end":7070.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7070.36909375,"end":7071.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7071.71909375,"end":7072.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7073.22096875,"end":7075.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7075.920968750001,"end":7080.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7080.76409375,"end":7082.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7083.86909375,"end":7088.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7090.04534375,"end":7091.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7092.323468750001,"end":7093.639718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7094.010968750001,"end":7095.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7095.968468750001,"end":7097.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7097.942843750001,"end":7099.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7099.74846875,"end":7101.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7102.46534375,"end":7104.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7104.81096875,"end":7106.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7107.57846875,"end":7109.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7110.092843750001,"end":7111.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7111.814093750001,"end":7115.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7116.792218750001,"end":7120.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7121.517218750001,"end":7124.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7124.470343750001,"end":7128.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7129.870343750001,"end":7131.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7132.38471875,"end":7134.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7135.202843750001,"end":7139.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7139.995343750001,"end":7142.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7143.28596875,"end":7146.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7146.930968750001,"end":7152.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7152.786593750001,"end":7153.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7154.794718749999,"end":7162.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7162.624718750001,"end":7164.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7166.100968750001,"end":7168.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7168.919093750001,"end":7171.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7171.872218750001,"end":7174.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7174.89284375,"end":7181.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7181.45721875,"end":7183.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7183.56659375,"end":7185.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7185.794093750001,"end":7188.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7188.595343750001,"end":7191.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7191.39659375,"end":7194.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7195.024718750001,"end":7197.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7197.690968750001,"end":7199.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7200.15471875,"end":7200.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7201.622843749999,"end":7202.939093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7203.63096875,"end":7207.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7209.216593749999,"end":7212.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7213.485968750001,"end":7214.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7214.73471875,"end":7217.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7217.82284375,"end":7219.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7220.21909375,"end":7221.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7221.889718750001,"end":7222.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7223.475968750001,"end":7226.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7227.6103437500005,"end":7227.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7228.36971875,"end":7229.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7230.15846875,"end":7235.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7236.33471875,"end":7237.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7238.292218750001,"end":7240.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7240.55346875,"end":7243.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7244.45159375,"end":7245.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7246.13909375,"end":7248.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7249.19346875,"end":7254.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7254.5428437499995,"end":7256.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7257.175343750001,"end":7258.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7259.4872187500005,"end":7260.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7261.2928437499995,"end":7263.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7263.874718750001,"end":7268.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7268.481593750001,"end":7268.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7269.52784375,"end":7272.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7272.05909375,"end":7272.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7272.075968749999,"end":7272.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7272.3290937500005,"end":7272.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7273.66221875,"end":7277.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7278.032843750001,"end":7280.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7280.49659375,"end":7318.6678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7318.920968750001,"end":7320.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7321.030343750001,"end":7323.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7325.198468750001,"end":7326.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7326.734093750001,"end":7371.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7371.94221875,"end":7375.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7375.452218750001,"end":7378.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7379.2997187500005,"end":7381.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7382.32034375,"end":7390.622843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7391.44971875,"end":7395.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7396.19159375,"end":7422.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7423.05659375,"end":7435.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7435.5272187499995,"end":7436.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7436.809718750001,"end":7440.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7441.669718749999,"end":7442.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7442.800343750001,"end":7447.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7447.13721875,"end":7491.366593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7493.22284375,"end":7495.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7499.804093750001,"end":7501.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7501.69409375,"end":7506.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7507.110968750001,"end":7509.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7509.794093750001,"end":7513.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7513.42221875,"end":7514.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7514.73846875,"end":7515.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7515.76784375,"end":7516.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7517.0165937500005,"end":7520.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7520.64471875,"end":7527.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7527.44534375,"end":7530.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7530.5165937500005,"end":7532.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7532.08596875,"end":7533.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7535.1572187500005,"end":7540.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7541.36721875,"end":7544.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7545.180968750001,"end":7549.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7549.9228437500005,"end":7551.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7552.08284375,"end":7553.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7553.73659375,"end":7557.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7557.66846875,"end":7559.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7559.40659375,"end":7562.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7562.44409375,"end":7571.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7571.64096875,"end":7574.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7575.4715937500005,"end":7578.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7578.795968750001,"end":7581.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7581.512843750001,"end":7592.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7592.63346875,"end":7608.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7609.87971875,"end":7610.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7611.229718750001,"end":7614.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7614.874718750001,"end":7619.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7619.700968749999,"end":7620.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7621.489718750001,"end":7623.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7624.392218750001,"end":7626.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7626.06284375,"end":7629.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7629.690968750001,"end":7633.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7633.60596875,"end":7638.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7639.208468750001,"end":7648.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7648.776593750001,"end":7654.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7654.497218750001,"end":7656.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7657.0790937500005,"end":7676.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7677.24471875,"end":7684.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7684.70346875,"end":7689.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7689.66471875,"end":7690.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7690.964093750001,"end":7692.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7692.95534375,"end":7693.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7693.14096875,"end":7696.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7697.54534375,"end":7703.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7703.232218749999,"end":7708.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7708.75034375,"end":7710.555968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7710.741593750001,"end":7714.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7715.82096875,"end":7720.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7721.64284375,"end":7732.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7732.56096875,"end":7732.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7732.8309687500005,"end":7736.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7734.38346875,"end":7734.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7736.64471875,"end":7736.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7736.948468750001,"end":7736.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7737.2353437500005,"end":7741.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7741.42034375,"end":7742.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7742.55096875,"end":7745.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7747.630343750001,"end":7747.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7747.917218750001,"end":7751.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7752.10221875,"end":7755.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7755.966593749999,"end":7761.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7762.00784375,"end":7764.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7765.18034375,"end":7766.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7766.665343750001,"end":7767.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7767.71159375,"end":7774.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7775.64284375,"end":7782.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7783.202843750001,"end":7784.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7784.87346875,"end":7786.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7786.442843750001,"end":7796.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7796.97284375,"end":7797.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7798.50846875,"end":7802.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7803.503468750001,"end":7810.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7811.232218749999,"end":7815.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7815.82221875,"end":7817.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7817.7459687499995,"end":7821.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7821.779093749999,"end":7824.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7825.204718750001,"end":7826.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7826.942843750001,"end":7835.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7835.565968750001,"end":7843.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7844.59409375,"end":7849.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7849.589093750001,"end":7855.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7856.27159375,"end":7863.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7863.52784375,"end":7866.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7866.9872187500005,"end":7867.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7868.11784375,"end":7870.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7870.69971875,"end":7871.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7871.96534375,"end":7885.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7879.27221875,"end":7881.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7885.19534375,"end":7886.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7886.8153437500005,"end":7888.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7887.692843750001,"end":7888.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7889.21159375,"end":7890.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7901.294093750001,"end":7914.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7914.76034375,"end":7917.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7917.1903437500005,"end":7918.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7918.675343750001,"end":7924.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7924.22721875,"end":7925.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7925.83034375,"end":7928.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7928.6990937499995,"end":7930.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7931.07846875,"end":7932.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7932.24284375,"end":7934.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7934.335343750001,"end":7938.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7938.452843750001,"end":7980.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":7980.67409375,"end":7982.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7985.36534375,"end":7996.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7996.435343749999,"end":8028.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8029.42596875,"end":8074.110968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8074.347218750001,"end":8082.497843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8082.2615937499995,"end":8084.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8084.30346875,"end":8084.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8085.687218750001,"end":8085.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8085.7040937500005,"end":8087.560343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8087.577218750001,"end":8094.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8095.10346875,"end":8097.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8097.685343750001,"end":8148.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8149.18784375,"end":8162.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8162.704718750001,"end":8167.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8168.08784375,"end":8171.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8171.850968750001,"end":8192.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8192.65784375,"end":8198.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8198.817218750002,"end":8204.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8204.95971875,"end":8208.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8208.33471875,"end":8211.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8211.33846875,"end":8215.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8216.164718750002,"end":8217.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8218.071593749999,"end":8226.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8227.16721875,"end":8231.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8232.16221875,"end":8233.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8233.512218750002,"end":8236.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8236.667843750001,"end":8240.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8240.734718750002,"end":8244.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8244.649718749999,"end":8247.180968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8246.792843750001,"end":8251.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8248.227218750002,"end":8248.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8251.99034375,"end":8259.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8253.340343750002,"end":8255.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8259.65159375,"end":8265.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8260.191593750002,"end":8264.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8265.86159375,"end":8269.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8265.91221875,"end":8266.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8269.03409375,"end":8269.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8269.574093750001,"end":8269.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8269.945343750001,"end":8269.962218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8270.23221875,"end":8270.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8270.24909375,"end":8271.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8270.316593750002,"end":8270.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8270.367218750001,"end":8274.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8274.40034375,"end":8275.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8275.024718749999,"end":8275.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8275.058468750001,"end":8276.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8276.374718750001,"end":8277.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8276.374718750001,"end":8279.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8278.129718750002,"end":8278.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8279.26034375,"end":8279.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8279.294093750003,"end":8284.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8284.47471875,"end":8284.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8284.980968750002,"end":8285.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8285.68971875,"end":8288.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8288.997218750003,"end":8289.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8289.520343750002,"end":8298.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8300.894093750001,"end":8300.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8300.961593750002,"end":8302.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8301.04596875,"end":8301.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8301.13034375,"end":8302.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8302.024718750003,"end":8303.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8302.530968750001,"end":8302.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8304.92721875,"end":8305.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8305.230968750002,"end":8309.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8308.032218750002,"end":8308.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8308.082843750002,"end":8322.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8309.58471875,"end":8311.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8322.578468750002,"end":8326.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8326.88159375,"end":8329.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8329.581593750001,"end":8362.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8362.977218750002,"end":8373.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8373.86159375,"end":8374.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8375.34659375,"end":8376.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8377.202843750001,"end":8394.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8394.65159375,"end":8398.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8398.515968750002,"end":8404.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8405.046593750001,"end":8407.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8407.35846875,"end":8410.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8410.73346875,"end":8411.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8411.745968750001,"end":8425.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8426.089718750001,"end":8429.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8430.19034375,"end":8433.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8433.784718750001,"end":8439.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8438.18909375,"end":8438.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8438.442218750002,"end":8439.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8439.74159375,"end":8439.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8439.960968750001,"end":8445.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8441.98596875,"end":8442.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8446.20471875,"end":8449.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8449.37721875,"end":8452.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8452.245968750001,"end":8453.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8453.37659375,"end":8456.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8458.624718750001,"end":8462.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8459.468468750001,"end":8459.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8459.77221875,"end":8459.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8459.92409375,"end":8459.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8462.97846875,"end":8465.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8465.72909375,"end":8477.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8477.28846875,"end":8478.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8478.503468750001,"end":8481.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8482.047218750002,"end":8489.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8487.56534375,"end":8496.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8491.581593750001,"end":8491.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8492.644718750002,"end":8494.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8497.57221875,"end":8498.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8499.192218750002,"end":8503.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8503.140968750002,"end":8503.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8503.664093750001,"end":8503.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8503.680968750003,"end":8510.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8506.144718750002,"end":8508.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8508.96284375,"end":8509.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8509.03034375,"end":8509.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8509.33409375,"end":8510.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8510.262218750002,"end":8510.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8510.92034375,"end":8539.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8522.817218750002,"end":8522.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8539.81034375,"end":8557.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8558.28846875,"end":8560.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8560.262843750003,"end":8560.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8560.296593750001,"end":8560.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8560.313468750002,"end":8565.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8560.70159375,"end":8562.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8562.321593750003,"end":8562.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8562.38909375,"end":8562.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8565.88221875,"end":8568.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8569.577843750001,"end":8575.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8576.395343750002,"end":8578.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8579.669093750003,"end":8581.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8582.16659375,"end":8587.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8588.37659375,"end":8601.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8602.29846875,"end":8606.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8606.95596875,"end":8613.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8614.347218750001,"end":8619.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8619.59534375,"end":8622.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8623.324718750002,"end":8628.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8628.218468750001,"end":8632.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8634.00659375,"end":8635.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8635.25534375,"end":8637.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8639.676593750002,"end":8641.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8642.37659375,"end":8644.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8645.38034375,"end":8646.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8647.81034375,"end":8654.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8655.218468750001,"end":8658.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8659.09971875,"end":8661.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8661.73221875,"end":8664.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8665.15784375,"end":8668.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8668.54971875,"end":8671.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8671.33409375,"end":8672.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8674.03409375,"end":8682.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8683.29846875,"end":8686.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8686.555343750002,"end":8689.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8689.778468750003,"end":8691.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8692.02284375,"end":8692.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8693.085968750001,"end":8695.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8696.22471875,"end":8699.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8700.477218750002,"end":8705.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8706.34971875,"end":8712.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8713.335968750001,"end":8717.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8719.00596875,"end":8721.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8723.089718750001,"end":8727.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8727.527843750002,"end":8728.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8729.367218750001,"end":8730.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8731.71284375,"end":8732.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8733.46784375,"end":8734.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8734.51409375,"end":8735.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8735.965343750002,"end":8737.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8739.30659375,"end":8742.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8742.985343750002,"end":8746.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8743.47471875,"end":8747.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8747.89596875,"end":8748.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8748.098468750002,"end":8750.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8748.11534375,"end":8748.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8748.43596875,"end":8748.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8749.38096875,"end":8749.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8749.988468750002,"end":8750.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8750.22471875,"end":8750.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8751.65909375,"end":8769.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8770.37346875,"end":8774.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8774.946593750003,"end":8775.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8776.937843750002,"end":8778.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8778.743468750003,"end":8779.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8779.80659375,"end":8781.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8780.92034375,"end":8782.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8781.730343750001,"end":8784.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8782.995968750001,"end":8786.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8784.39659375,"end":8784.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8786.15159375,"end":8786.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8786.18534375,"end":8786.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8786.82659375,"end":8786.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8786.97846875,"end":8787.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8787.02909375,"end":8787.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8788.24409375,"end":8790.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8788.31159375,"end":8790.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8790.657218750002,"end":8795.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":8790.72471875,"end":8793.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8795.972843750002,"end":8801.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8802.48659375,"end":8804.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8804.81534375,"end":8806.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8806.75596875,"end":8807.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8807.464718750001,"end":8813.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8814.214718750001,"end":8815.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8816.08784375,"end":8817.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8817.809093750002,"end":8818.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8819.20971875,"end":8820.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8821.58909375,"end":8822.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8823.074093750001,"end":8824.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8824.660343750002,"end":8825.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8826.128468750001,"end":8827.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8827.394093750001,"end":8828.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":8828.91284375,"end":8831.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8831.039093750001,"end":8832.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8832.96284375,"end":8833.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8833.519718750002,"end":8834.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8834.684093750002,"end":8835.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8835.899093750002,"end":8836.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8836.962218750003,"end":8837.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8838.362843750001,"end":8839.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8840.94471875,"end":8840.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8840.961593750002,"end":8841.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8842.19346875,"end":8842.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8842.21034375,"end":8842.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8843.66159375,"end":8845.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8846.19284375,"end":8846.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8846.90159375,"end":8848.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8848.707218750002,"end":8849.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8850.47909375,"end":8850.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8850.867218750001,"end":8852.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8852.031593750002,"end":8852.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8853.465968750003,"end":8853.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8853.48284375,"end":8853.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8858.140343750001,"end":8858.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8859.08534375,"end":8860.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8860.941593750002,"end":8864.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8865.227843750003,"end":8868.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8868.29909375,"end":8868.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":8868.805343750002,"end":8868.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8868.97409375,"end":8873.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8873.800343750001,"end":8875.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9010.21784375,"end":9010.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9011.95596875,"end":9012.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9013.086593750002,"end":9013.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9014.824718750002,"end":9017.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9018.840968750003,"end":9019.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9020.22471875,"end":9021.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9021.203468750002,"end":9022.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9022.77284375,"end":9023.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9024.426593750002,"end":9024.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9025.13534375,"end":9025.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9026.23221875,"end":9026.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9027.29534375,"end":9028.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9028.425968750002,"end":9029.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9030.19784375,"end":9034.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9035.277218750001,"end":9037.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9037.26846875,"end":9038.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9039.175343750001,"end":9039.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9040.47471875,"end":9043.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9044.05221875,"end":9044.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9044.84534375,"end":9045.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9045.70596875,"end":9046.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9047.22471875,"end":9048.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9048.625343750002,"end":9049.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9049.82346875,"end":9050.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9050.987843750001,"end":9052.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9053.29971875,"end":9053.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9054.109718750002,"end":9066.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9067.42409375,"end":9067.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9068.79096875,"end":9070.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9071.153468750003,"end":9073.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9073.769093750001,"end":9073.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9074.59596875,"end":9076.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9077.734718750002,"end":9080.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9081.24471875,"end":9082.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9082.61159375,"end":9084.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9086.99909375,"end":9088.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9088.754093750002,"end":9089.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9089.51346875,"end":9089.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9089.547218750002,"end":9090.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9090.25596875,"end":9090.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9090.981593750003,"end":9092.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9093.83346875,"end":9094.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9094.862843750001,"end":9095.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9096.70221875,"end":9097.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9099.26721875,"end":9102.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9102.49034375,"end":9103.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9103.77284375,"end":9105.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9106.48971875,"end":9111.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9112.61534375,"end":9115.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9116.83409375,"end":9118.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9119.500343750002,"end":9120.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9121.54221875,"end":9122.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9122.993468750003,"end":9125.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9126.300968750002,"end":9126.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9126.85784375,"end":9126.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9127.38096875,"end":9128.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9128.039093750001,"end":9128.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9129.827843750001,"end":9129.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9129.844718750002,"end":9133.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9134.114093750002,"end":9159.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9162.19409375,"end":9162.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9162.210968750001,"end":9162.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9163.004093750002,"end":9163.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9163.02096875,"end":9163.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9164.050343750001,"end":9166.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9167.52659375,"end":9168.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9168.77534375,"end":9170.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9171.762218750002,"end":9172.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9173.652218750001,"end":9174.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9174.816593750002,"end":9181.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9181.667843750001,"end":9185.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9186.08909375,"end":9191.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9191.72534375,"end":9194.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9195.167843750001,"end":9196.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9196.433468750001,"end":9199.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9199.977218750002,"end":9200.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9200.53409375,"end":9204.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9204.415343750003,"end":9205.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9205.883468750002,"end":9210.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9211.148468750001,"end":9212.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9213.19034375,"end":9217.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9217.71284375,"end":9218.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9218.320343750001,"end":9219.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9219.383468750002,"end":9222.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9223.31534375,"end":9229.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9230.58846875,"end":9234.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9235.00971875,"end":9235.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9235.97159375,"end":9237.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9238.43534375,"end":9240.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9240.578468750002,"end":9243.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9244.105343750001,"end":9244.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9245.08409375,"end":9247.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9247.379093750002,"end":9248.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9248.745968750001,"end":9253.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9254.331593750001,"end":9257.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9257.68971875,"end":9259.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9262.617218750001,"end":9262.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9263.039093750001,"end":9263.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9267.156593750002,"end":9267.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9268.06784375,"end":9269.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9269.97471875,"end":9270.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9271.34159375,"end":9273.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9273.82221875,"end":9279.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9280.20096875,"end":9282.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9282.192218750002,"end":9283.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9283.390343750001,"end":9284.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9285.077843750001,"end":9287.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9288.28409375,"end":9294.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9294.64596875,"end":9297.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9297.81846875,"end":9303.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9303.92721875,"end":9307.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9307.84221875,"end":9326.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9326.62409375,"end":9328.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9328.868468750003,"end":9331.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9332.05784375,"end":9334.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9334.89284375,"end":9337.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9337.27221875,"end":9337.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9338.38596875,"end":9344.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9344.612843750001,"end":9349.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9349.692218750002,"end":9350.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9350.519093750001,"end":9352.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9353.60721875,"end":9354.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9354.02909375,"end":9354.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9355.73346875,"end":9355.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9355.750343750002,"end":9372.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9372.69284375,"end":9375.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9375.527843750002,"end":9378.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9379.105343750001,"end":9380.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9380.370968750001,"end":9384.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9385.63596875,"end":9388.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9389.01096875,"end":9390.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9391.339718750001,"end":9392.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9392.993468750003,"end":9394.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9395.28846875,"end":9397.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9397.33034375,"end":9401.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9402.61221875,"end":9403.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9403.692218750002,"end":9406.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9407.40471875,"end":9411.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9411.94409375,"end":9415.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9415.11659375,"end":9418.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9418.52534375,"end":9419.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9420.027218750001,"end":9422.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9423.047843750002,"end":9434.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9436.26096875,"end":9436.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9436.277843750002,"end":9441.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9436.581593750001,"end":9437.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9441.660968750002,"end":9442.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9442.707218750002,"end":9442.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9442.79159375,"end":9442.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9442.94346875,"end":9442.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9442.96034375,"end":9442.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9442.977218750002,"end":9445.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9445.035968750002,"end":9454.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9447.01034375,"end":9447.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9449.38971875,"end":9458.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9459.329093750002,"end":9467.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9465.31971875,"end":9483.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9483.96659375,"end":9484.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9485.23221875,"end":9486.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9487.105343750001,"end":9489.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9490.598468750002,"end":9501.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9491.08784375,"end":9491.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9491.20596875,"end":9491.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9491.391593750002,"end":9491.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9491.50971875,"end":9492.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9492.437843750002,"end":9492.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9501.550343750001,"end":9504.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9504.942218750002,"end":9507.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9507.97971875,"end":9510.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9510.578468750002,"end":9513.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9514.324718750002,"end":9519.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9519.539093750001,"end":9522.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9522.89721875,"end":9523.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9523.605968750002,"end":9524.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9525.040343750003,"end":9527.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9527.58846875,"end":9528.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9529.883468750002,"end":9531.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9532.07721875,"end":9534.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9535.165343750003,"end":9537.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9539.65409375,"end":9544.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9540.008468750002,"end":9540.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9540.09284375,"end":9540.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9540.210968750001,"end":9540.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9541.02096875,"end":9549.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9550.707218750002,"end":9553.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9557.86221875,"end":9558.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9559.12784375,"end":9574.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9575.58096875,"end":9586.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9587.933468750001,"end":9662.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9640.53284375,"end":9640.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9662.925968750002,"end":9665.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9666.53721875,"end":9669.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9669.91221875,"end":9675.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9676.44284375,"end":9683.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9683.68221875,"end":9684.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9685.454093750002,"end":9688.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9688.74471875,"end":9691.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9692.035343750002,"end":9696.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9697.620968750001,"end":9699.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9700.624718750001,"end":9706.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9706.14284375,"end":9706.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9707.66159375,"end":9708.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9708.89346875,"end":9712.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9712.285343750002,"end":9713.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9713.753468750001,"end":9714.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9714.462218750003,"end":9714.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9715.15409375,"end":9716.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9716.993468750003,"end":9721.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9721.667843750001,"end":9727.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9727.371593750002,"end":9729.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9730.004093750002,"end":9732.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9733.851593750001,"end":9737.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9737.969093750002,"end":9743.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9743.605343750001,"end":9744.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9745.64721875,"end":9747.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9748.094093750002,"end":9749.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9750.000968750002,"end":9761.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9762.08346875,"end":9763.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9764.61471875,"end":9765.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9765.964718750001,"end":9767.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9768.25971875,"end":9768.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9768.27659375,"end":9769.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9769.761593750001,"end":9770.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9770.31846875,"end":9781.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9777.16971875,"end":9777.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9779.22846875,"end":9779.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9779.27909375,"end":9780.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9780.91596875,"end":9780.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9780.949718750002,"end":9781.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9781.270343750002,"end":9781.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9781.33784375,"end":9781.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9781.60784375,"end":9781.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9781.793468750002,"end":9782.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9782.02971875,"end":9782.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9782.316593750002,"end":9782.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9782.384093750003,"end":9782.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9782.789093750001,"end":9782.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9782.97471875,"end":9783.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9783.93659375,"end":9785.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9787.41284375,"end":9789.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9790.399718750003,"end":9791.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9792.30659375,"end":9800.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9800.44034375,"end":9803.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9801.31784375,"end":9802.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9803.309093750002,"end":9805.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9803.34284375,"end":9807.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9807.66284375,"end":9812.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9812.219093750002,"end":9821.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9821.01096875,"end":9821.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9821.179718750001,"end":9821.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9821.43284375,"end":9823.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9823.59284375,"end":9823.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9823.710968750001,"end":9827.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9823.778468750003,"end":9823.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":9823.812218750001,"end":9824.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9827.27159375,"end":9827.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9828.300968750002,"end":9828.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9828.31784375,"end":9828.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":9828.55409375,"end":9828.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9828.97596875,"end":9832.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9829.60034375,"end":9834.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9832.80659375,"end":9834.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9834.71346875,"end":9834.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9834.797843750002,"end":9834.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":9834.81471875,"end":9835.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9835.86096875,"end":9836.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9836.92409375,"end":9841.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9842.13846875,"end":9845.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9846.42471875,"end":9848.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9848.80409375,"end":9851.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9851.402843750002,"end":9864.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9865.29096875,"end":9866.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9867.19784375,"end":9868.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9869.374718750001,"end":9869.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9869.965343750002,"end":9872.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9873.47534375,"end":9877.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9878.284718750001,"end":9878.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9879.21284375,"end":9882.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9883.44846875,"end":9885.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9885.60846875,"end":9890.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9890.29971875,"end":9893.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9894.14721875,"end":9904.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9904.62659375,"end":9906.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9907.259093750003,"end":9917.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9917.75534375,"end":9923.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9923.745968750001,"end":9925.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9926.175968750002,"end":9927.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9927.644093750001,"end":9936.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9937.195343750001,"end":9950.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9950.98221875,"end":9954.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9954.79596875,"end":9969.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9970.320968750002,"end":9974.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9974.337218750003,"end":9981.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9981.30659375,"end":9982.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9982.89284375,"end":10000.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10000.29096875,"end":10001.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10001.472218750001,"end":10003.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10003.446593750003,"end":10004.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10005.37034375,"end":10005.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10152.13221875,"end":10153.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10153.33034375,"end":10154.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10154.984093750001,"end":10155.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10155.777218750001,"end":10155.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10155.895343750002,"end":10156.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10156.40159375,"end":10157.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10157.97096875,"end":10158.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10158.96659375,"end":10159.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10161.801593750002,"end":10164.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10164.180968750003,"end":10164.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10165.09221875,"end":10165.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10165.227218750002,"end":10165.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10165.29471875,"end":10166.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10166.10471875,"end":10166.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10166.425343750001,"end":10166.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10166.442218750002,"end":10171.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10171.032218750002,"end":10171.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10171.909718750001,"end":10172.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10172.11221875,"end":10172.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10172.719718750002,"end":10172.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10172.85471875,"end":10172.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10172.98971875,"end":10173.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10173.023468750001,"end":10173.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":10173.090968750003,"end":10173.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10173.192218750002,"end":10173.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10173.22596875,"end":10174.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10174.74471875,"end":10175.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10175.90909375,"end":10176.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10181.882843750001,"end":10183.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10184.110343750002,"end":10185.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10186.87784375,"end":10187.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10188.07596875,"end":10188.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10195.46721875,"end":10204.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10205.00159375,"end":10215.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10215.852218750002,"end":10218.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10219.159718750001,"end":10220.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10222.19721875,"end":10225.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10226.652218750001,"end":10228.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10229.04846875,"end":10232.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10233.23346875,"end":10233.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10233.55409375,"end":10234.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10234.245968750001,"end":10236.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10237.570343750001,"end":10244.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10245.855968750002,"end":10252.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10253.129093750002,"end":10259.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10259.035343750002,"end":10259.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10259.609093750001,"end":10259.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10260.250343750002,"end":10260.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10260.26721875,"end":10261.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10261.769093750001,"end":10262.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10262.71409375,"end":10264.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10264.48596875,"end":10266.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10266.831593750001,"end":10268.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10268.738468750002,"end":10297.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10298.269718750002,"end":10301.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10301.67846875,"end":10302.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10303.112843750001,"end":10305.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10305.644093750001,"end":10306.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10314.047843750002,"end":10316.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10322.586593750002,"end":10322.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10323.66659375,"end":10324.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10325.472218750001,"end":10325.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10326.383468750002,"end":10328.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10328.15534375,"end":10328.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10329.269093750001,"end":10334.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10335.614093750002,"end":10336.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10336.79534375,"end":10337.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10337.53784375,"end":10343.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10344.22034375,"end":10347.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10347.899093750002,"end":10352.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10353.61971875,"end":10354.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10354.63221875,"end":10360.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10360.74096875,"end":10361.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10362.512843750003,"end":10362.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10363.508468750002,"end":10369.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10369.33034375,"end":10377.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10377.51471875,"end":10381.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10382.35784375,"end":10396.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10398.102218750002,"end":10399.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10399.992218750001,"end":10403.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10404.362843750001,"end":10407.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10407.55221875,"end":10413.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10413.441593750002,"end":10417.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10418.250968750002,"end":10419.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10419.347843750002,"end":10430.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10430.957843750002,"end":10446.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10448.37284375,"end":10458.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10458.19409375,"end":10462.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10462.88534375,"end":10464.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10464.72471875,"end":10470.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10471.05284375,"end":10474.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10474.32659375,"end":10477.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10477.667843750001,"end":10492.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10493.42909375,"end":10494.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10495.53846875,"end":10496.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10498.17096875,"end":10500.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10500.95534375,"end":10503.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10503.824093750001,"end":10504.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10503.942218750002,"end":10504.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10505.190968750001,"end":10527.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10528.394093750001,"end":10531.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10532.44409375,"end":10534.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10534.958468750003,"end":10537.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10538.45159375,"end":10547.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10547.395343750002,"end":10555.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10555.91721875,"end":10573.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10573.754093750002,"end":10577.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10577.618468750003,"end":10579.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10579.407218750002,"end":10586.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10587.22034375,"end":10607.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10607.723468750002,"end":10609.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10610.17034375,"end":10635.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10635.516593750002,"end":10642.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10643.110343750002,"end":10689.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10689.972218750001,"end":10692.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10693.043468750002,"end":10710.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10710.509093750003,"end":10712.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10712.770343750002,"end":10715.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10716.43221875,"end":10729.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10730.219093750002,"end":10736.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10737.137843750003,"end":10738.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10738.58909375,"end":10740.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10740.833468750003,"end":10741.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10741.84596875,"end":10755.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10756.56096875,"end":10759.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10763.09159375,"end":10763.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10763.125343750002,"end":10763.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10764.52596875,"end":10765.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10765.42034375,"end":10769.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10770.077843750001,"end":10772.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10772.727218750002,"end":10775.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10776.11909375,"end":10778.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10779.13971875,"end":10783.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10783.847843750002,"end":10785.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10785.282218750002,"end":10824.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10825.259093750003,"end":10827.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10827.60471875,"end":10829.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10830.23721875,"end":10834.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10834.371593750002,"end":10835.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10835.957843750002,"end":10853.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10861.219718750002,"end":10862.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10862.77221875,"end":10863.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10863.44721875,"end":10864.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10865.18534375,"end":10865.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10865.67471875,"end":10865.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10865.792843750001,"end":10865.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10865.910968750002,"end":10865.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10865.97846875,"end":10866.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10866.434093750002,"end":10867.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10868.003468750001,"end":10868.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10868.914718750002,"end":10869.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10870.484093750001,"end":10872.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10873.04909375,"end":10874.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10874.78721875,"end":10875.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10876.879718750002,"end":10878.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10879.00596875,"end":10883.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10885.114718750003,"end":10886.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10887.02159375,"end":10889.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10889.417843750001,"end":10890.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10891.56096875,"end":10893.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10894.328468750002,"end":10900.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10901.719718750002,"end":10905.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10905.38159375,"end":10909.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10910.12346875,"end":10911.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10911.86159375,"end":10915.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10915.675343750001,"end":10917.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10918.76346875,"end":10920.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10922.121593750002,"end":10924.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10925.243468750003,"end":10926.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10926.812843750002,"end":10928.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10928.88846875,"end":10929.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10931.082218750002,"end":10932.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10932.499718750001,"end":10934.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10935.081593750001,"end":10936.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10936.33034375,"end":10937.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10938.625343750002,"end":10939.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10939.50284375,"end":10940.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10941.76409375,"end":10942.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10943.519093750001,"end":10944.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10944.98721875,"end":10946.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10948.36221875,"end":10950.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10950.82596875,"end":10952.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10953.120968750001,"end":10953.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10953.930968750003,"end":10957.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10958.250968750002,"end":10959.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10959.921593750001,"end":10961.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10962.047843750002,"end":10963.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10963.769093750001,"end":10964.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10964.74784375,"end":10969.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":10970.164718750002,"end":10977.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":10977.539093750001,"end":10978.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10981.69034375,"end":10988.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10988.929718750001,"end":11060.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11061.52596875,"end":11064.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11067.246593750002,"end":11075.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11076.375968750002,"end":11078.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11079.210968750001,"end":11080.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11081.30346875,"end":11083.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11084.62784375,"end":11089.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11090.449718750002,"end":11093.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11093.571593750003,"end":11095.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11095.84971875,"end":11103.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11103.797843750002,"end":11104.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11104.82721875,"end":11107.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11107.105343750001,"end":11110.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11110.83471875,"end":11111.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11111.98221875,"end":11115.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11116.21784375,"end":11117.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11118.495968750001,"end":11127.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11128.671593750001,"end":11130.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11131.624718750001,"end":11134.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11135.60721875,"end":11140.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11140.973468750002,"end":11142.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11142.57659375,"end":11144.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11145.968468750001,"end":11148.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11148.48284375,"end":11149.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11150.42346875,"end":11151.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11151.520343750002,"end":11155.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11156.312843750002,"end":11161.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11161.746593750002,"end":11174.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11175.68534375,"end":11177.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11177.49096875,"end":11179.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11180.933468750001,"end":11181.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11182.519718750002,"end":11183.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11184.527843750002,"end":11186.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11186.87346875,"end":11188.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11188.61159375,"end":11190.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11190.754718750002,"end":11192.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11192.62784375,"end":11195.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11196.52596875,"end":11198.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11199.074093750001,"end":11199.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11200.440968750001,"end":11201.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11202.31409375,"end":11203.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11203.79909375,"end":11205.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11205.520343750002,"end":11207.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11208.55784375,"end":11209.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11209.87409375,"end":11211.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11211.49409375,"end":11214.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11215.45971875,"end":11217.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11218.36221875,"end":11219.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11220.84284375,"end":11225.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11225.73659375,"end":11226.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11228.41971875,"end":11236.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11236.92471875,"end":11240.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11241.12659375,"end":11242.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11243.590343750002,"end":11245.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11246.543468750002,"end":11249.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11250.981593750003,"end":11257.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11257.613468750002,"end":11259.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11260.735343750002,"end":11266.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11266.65846875,"end":11267.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11268.008468750002,"end":11269.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11269.324718750002,"end":11270.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11271.24846875,"end":11271.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11272.109093750001,"end":11273.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11273.56034375,"end":11275.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11276.10846875,"end":11283.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11284.84971875,"end":11286.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11286.925343750001,"end":11289.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11290.03034375,"end":11291.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11292.105968750002,"end":11293.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11294.35034375,"end":11296.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11296.35846875,"end":11297.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11298.231593750003,"end":11298.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11299.277843750002,"end":11301.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11301.84284375,"end":11305.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11305.79159375,"end":11311.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11311.74846875,"end":11312.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11312.76096875,"end":11314.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11315.730968750002,"end":11316.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11316.945968750002,"end":11318.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11318.19471875,"end":11320.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11320.77659375,"end":11322.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11322.362843750001,"end":11323.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11323.695968750002,"end":11326.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11326.61534375,"end":11327.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11328.04971875,"end":11329.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11330.867843750002,"end":11332.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11333.179718750001,"end":11335.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11335.96409375,"end":11338.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11339.305343750002,"end":11342.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11343.16971875,"end":11349.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11349.734093750001,"end":11353.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11354.20596875,"end":11355.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11356.180343750002,"end":11356.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11356.956593750001,"end":11357.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11358.289718750002,"end":11361.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11361.36096875,"end":11362.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11363.099093750003,"end":11364.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11364.85409375,"end":11368.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11368.262843750003,"end":11369.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11369.849093750003,"end":11371.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11372.009093750003,"end":11374.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11375.99159375,"end":11376.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11376.734093750001,"end":11378.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11378.72534375,"end":11382.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11384.024093750002,"end":11385.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11387.53409375,"end":11388.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11388.968468750001,"end":11391.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11391.75284375,"end":11392.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11393.254718750002,"end":11395.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11396.96721875,"end":11398.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11399.312843750002,"end":11399.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11400.07221875,"end":11400.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11401.000343750002,"end":11403.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11403.852218750002,"end":11405.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11405.94471875,"end":11407.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11408.03721875,"end":11412.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11413.032218750002,"end":11416.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11417.06534375,"end":11422.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11422.566593750002,"end":11427.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11428.97909375,"end":11431.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11431.29096875,"end":11434.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11434.66596875,"end":11443.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11443.59284375,"end":11444.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11445.17909375,"end":11446.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11447.38971875,"end":11449.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11450.190968750001,"end":11452.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11453.22846875,"end":11455.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11455.55721875,"end":11456.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11457.649718750003,"end":11460.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11460.83909375,"end":11470.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":11468.230343750001,"end":11469.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11469.884093750003,"end":11470.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11471.200343750003,"end":11475.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11473.309718750003,"end":11473.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11473.37721875,"end":11473.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11473.394093750001,"end":11473.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11473.42784375,"end":11473.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11475.23346875,"end":11486.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11479.722218750001,"end":11482.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11486.55659375,"end":11490.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11488.075343750003,"end":11488.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11488.328468750002,"end":11488.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":11488.63221875,"end":11489.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11489.03721875,"end":11490.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11490.87659375,"end":11491.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11491.88909375,"end":11494.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11495.21346875,"end":11497.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11497.96409375,"end":11502.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11503.95471875,"end":11504.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11506.35096875,"end":11506.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11507.093468750001,"end":11507.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11508.899093750002,"end":11511.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11513.57346875,"end":11513.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11515.34534375,"end":11515.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11515.497218750003,"end":11518.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11518.973468750002,"end":11519.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11519.074718750002,"end":11519.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11519.63159375,"end":11519.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11519.699093750001,"end":11519.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11519.90159375,"end":11519.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11519.95221875,"end":11530.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11520.036593750003,"end":11522.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11527.984718750002,"end":11528.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11530.38096875,"end":11530.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11530.735343750002,"end":11532.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11532.473468750002,"end":11532.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11533.637843750003,"end":11538.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11538.88596875,"end":11541.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11540.860343750002,"end":11542.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11542.969718750002,"end":11548.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11543.340968750003,"end":11543.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11548.302218750003,"end":11548.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11549.06159375,"end":11552.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11552.90909375,"end":11554.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11554.96784375,"end":11556.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11556.18284375,"end":11557.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11558.190968750001,"end":11563.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11564.215343750002,"end":11567.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11567.82659375,"end":11568.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11569.058468750001,"end":11569.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11570.99909375,"end":11573.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11573.800343750001,"end":11575.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11575.42034375,"end":11577.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11577.495968750001,"end":11577.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11577.512843750003,"end":11585.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11585.79846875,"end":11600.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11601.019718750002,"end":11602.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11602.774718750003,"end":11606.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11606.554718750001,"end":11608.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11609.54159375,"end":11613.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11613.76034375,"end":11619.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11620.054718750001,"end":11624.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11624.94846875,"end":11633.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11633.250968750002,"end":11640.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11641.215968750003,"end":11643.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11645.08034375,"end":11646.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11649.231593750003,"end":11665.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11666.190968750001,"end":11674.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11674.71284375,"end":11675.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11676.704093750002,"end":11690.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11691.01409375,"end":11717.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11717.777843750002,"end":11722.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11722.55346875,"end":11724.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11725.169093750003,"end":11726.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11726.82284375,"end":11727.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11727.599093750003,"end":11745.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11745.38534375,"end":11749.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11750.042843750001,"end":11759.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11759.99909375,"end":11766.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11766.917843750001,"end":11767.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11768.149718750003,"end":11863.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11864.489093750002,"end":11893.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11890.915343750003,"end":11890.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":11893.78409375,"end":11896.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11897.53034375,"end":11902.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11902.508468750002,"end":11903.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11903.43659375,"end":11907.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11907.773468750001,"end":11909.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11909.74784375,"end":11911.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11911.688468750002,"end":11913.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11913.34221875,"end":11916.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11916.54846875,"end":11922.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11922.72471875,"end":11937.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11937.743468750003,"end":11951.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11951.26034375,"end":11971.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11971.527218750001,"end":11972.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11972.370968750001,"end":11974.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11975.13846875,"end":11978.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11978.749718750001,"end":11980.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11980.36971875,"end":11982.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11982.816593750002,"end":11987.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11987.609093750001,"end":11993.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11993.81909375,"end":12001.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12001.952843750001,"end":12008.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12008.46659375,"end":12018.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12018.76034375,"end":12033.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12033.99846875,"end":12037.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12037.49159375,"end":12040.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12040.49534375,"end":12050.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12050.50221875,"end":12053.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12053.910968750002,"end":12056.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12056.93159375,"end":12067.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12067.69784375,"end":12072.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12072.23721875,"end":12075.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12075.274718750003,"end":12079.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12079.898468750001,"end":12083.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12084.04971875,"end":12084.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12085.230968750002,"end":12086.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12087.390968750002,"end":12089.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12090.37784375,"end":12090.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12090.934718750003,"end":12092.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12092.16659375,"end":12092.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12092.234093750001,"end":12092.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":12092.250968750002,"end":12092.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12092.925968750002,"end":12093.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12093.58409375,"end":12095.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12094.84971875,"end":12097.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12096.38534375,"end":12096.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12097.684718750003,"end":12100.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12100.199093750001,"end":12102.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12101.852843750003,"end":12106.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12105.24471875,"end":12105.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12106.105343750001,"end":12106.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12106.56096875,"end":12132.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12132.41346875,"end":12144.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12144.833468750003,"end":12146.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12146.74034375,"end":12168.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12168.492218750001,"end":12169.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12171.25971875,"end":12171.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12171.47909375,"end":12171.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12171.968468750001,"end":12172.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12172.407218750002,"end":12172.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12172.99784375,"end":12173.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12173.01471875,"end":12173.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12178.92096875,"end":12180.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12181.587218750003,"end":12182.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12454.911593750003,"end":12455.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12456.98721875,"end":12457.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12457.98284375,"end":12459.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12459.974093750003,"end":12461.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12462.117218750001,"end":12462.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12463.04534375,"end":12466.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12467.43284375,"end":12469.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12470.250968750002,"end":12471.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12472.96784375,"end":12474.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12475.48221875,"end":12478.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12478.97534375,"end":12479.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12479.886593750001,"end":12480.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12481.320968750002,"end":12482.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12483.160343750002,"end":12487.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12488.290343750003,"end":12489.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12489.977843750003,"end":12491.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12490.14659375,"end":12492.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12492.070343750001,"end":12492.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12492.981593750003,"end":12496.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12493.082843750002,"end":12493.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12496.12034375,"end":12500.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12498.63471875,"end":12509.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12509.23221875,"end":12511.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12511.965968750003,"end":12514.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12514.46346875,"end":12515.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12516.03284375,"end":12516.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12517.56846875,"end":12518.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12519.390968750002,"end":12520.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12521.652218750001,"end":12523.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12523.829093750002,"end":12525.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12526.49534375,"end":12527.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12529.07721875,"end":12529.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12530.17409375,"end":12530.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12532.047218750002,"end":12533.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12534.325343750003,"end":12534.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12535.219718750002,"end":12538.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12538.206593750001,"end":12540.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12540.87284375,"end":12541.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12542.020343750002,"end":12544.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12544.062218750001,"end":12556.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12556.617218750001,"end":12558.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12558.844718750002,"end":12560.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12561.08909375,"end":12561.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12563.18159375,"end":12564.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12564.76784375,"end":12565.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12567.214718750001,"end":12570.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12570.437843750002,"end":12572.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12573.20534375,"end":12577.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":12577.609718750002,"end":12578.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12581.11971875,"end":12583.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12599.36159375,"end":12600.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12600.25596875,"end":12602.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12603.023468750001,"end":12603.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12604.356593750003,"end":12604.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12604.37346875,"end":12604.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12604.879718750002,"end":12605.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12606.145343750002,"end":12607.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12608.625968750002,"end":12622.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12618.059093750002,"end":12618.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12621.04596875,"end":12621.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12622.227218750002,"end":12622.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12623.003468750001,"end":12623.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12624.15096875,"end":12624.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12635.676593750002,"end":12635.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12636.250343750002,"end":12636.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12636.925343750001,"end":12636.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12636.942218750002,"end":12636.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12636.97596875,"end":12637.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12637.06034375,"end":12637.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12640.45221875,"end":12640.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12640.536593750003,"end":12640.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12640.80659375,"end":12640.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12640.941593750002,"end":12641.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12641.785343750002,"end":12641.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12645.059093750002,"end":12645.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12645.261593750001,"end":12646.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12650.35784375,"end":12650.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12650.56034375,"end":12650.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12653.918468750002,"end":12655.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12656.753468750001,"end":12657.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12664.313468750002,"end":12664.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12664.583468750003,"end":12664.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12665.477843750003,"end":12666.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12666.844718750002,"end":12668.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12672.44721875,"end":12672.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12672.46409375,"end":12673.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12676.547843750002,"end":12677.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":12677.08784375,"end":12677.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12684.765968750002,"end":12684.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12685.289093750001,"end":12687.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12688.15784375,"end":12689.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12689.609093750001,"end":12690.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12742.562843750002,"end":12743.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12744.098468750002,"end":12744.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12749.19471875,"end":12749.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12765.968468750001,"end":12766.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12767.38596875,"end":12767.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12768.21284375,"end":12768.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12778.87784375,"end":12784.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12785.15534375,"end":12787.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12809.18534375,"end":12811.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12811.29471875,"end":12812.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12812.83034375,"end":12815.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12815.90159375,"end":12816.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12816.070343750001,"end":12816.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12863.269718750002,"end":12863.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12867.25221875,"end":12867.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12867.437843750002,"end":12867.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12867.640343750001,"end":12867.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12868.652843750002,"end":12869.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12875.48721875,"end":12878.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12897.964718750001,"end":12898.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12901.74471875,"end":12902.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12921.387218750002,"end":12921.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12921.555968750003,"end":12922.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12923.00721875,"end":12924.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12924.036593750003,"end":12924.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12925.065968750001,"end":12928.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12928.626593750003,"end":12931.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12932.777843750002,"end":12933.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12944.25284375,"end":12945.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12945.40034375,"end":12946.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12947.08784375,"end":12947.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12947.72909375,"end":12948.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":12975.30284375,"end":12975.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12975.387218750002,"end":12975.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12975.437843750002,"end":12975.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12975.52221875,"end":12975.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":12978.00284375,"end":12979.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12979.707218750002,"end":12980.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":12980.179718750001,"end":12980.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13015.364093750002,"end":13015.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13058.53034375,"end":13059.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13087.673468750003,"end":13089.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13098.051593750002,"end":13098.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13098.96284375,"end":13099.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13099.300343750001,"end":13099.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13099.97534375,"end":13100.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13100.97096875,"end":13101.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13101.055343750002,"end":13101.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13102.439093750003,"end":13103.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13102.523468750001,"end":13102.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13102.77659375,"end":13102.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13103.82284375,"end":13104.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13104.51471875,"end":13104.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13135.969718750002,"end":13136.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13166.53034375,"end":13172.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13172.48721875,"end":13172.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13189.29471875,"end":13190.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13190.88096875,"end":13199.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13190.99909375,"end":13194.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13199.85846875,"end":13200.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13200.516593750002,"end":13201.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13202.946593750003,"end":13204.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13205.427218750003,"end":13212.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13207.215968750003,"end":13208.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13208.160968750002,"end":13208.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13212.46409375,"end":13212.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13212.970343750003,"end":13221.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13221.036593750003,"end":13221.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13222.15034375,"end":13222.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13222.21784375,"end":13222.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13222.335968750001,"end":13222.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13222.36971875,"end":13222.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13222.808468750001,"end":13222.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13222.825343750003,"end":13222.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13222.926593750002,"end":13222.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13222.977218750002,"end":13222.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13222.99409375,"end":13224.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13223.027843750002,"end":13224.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13224.32721875,"end":13224.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13224.37784375,"end":13224.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13224.968468750001,"end":13225.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13225.035968750002,"end":13225.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13225.457843750002,"end":13226.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13226.031593750002,"end":13226.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13226.149718750003,"end":13226.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13226.453468750002,"end":13226.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13226.723468750002,"end":13226.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13226.84159375,"end":13229.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13229.828468750002,"end":13230.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13230.317843750003,"end":13230.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13230.38534375,"end":13230.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13230.503468750001,"end":13231.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13231.02659375,"end":13232.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13233.11909375,"end":13234.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13234.65471875,"end":13240.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13236.46034375,"end":13236.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13240.814093750003,"end":13240.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13240.864718750003,"end":13240.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13241.10096875,"end":13242.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13242.29909375,"end":13242.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13242.332843750002,"end":13242.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13244.712218750003,"end":13245.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":13245.31971875,"end":13246.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13247.00721875,"end":13249.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13257.149093750002,"end":13259.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13259.984093750001,"end":13260.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13260.18659375,"end":13260.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13261.064093750003,"end":13262.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13262.262218750002,"end":13264.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13263.780968750001,"end":13265.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13264.067843750003,"end":13264.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13265.92409375,"end":13266.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13266.24471875,"end":13267.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13267.965968750003,"end":13268.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13268.77596875,"end":13273.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13274.09159375,"end":13274.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13275.863468750002,"end":13278.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13276.16721875,"end":13276.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13278.37784375,"end":13278.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13278.411593750003,"end":13279.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13279.47471875,"end":13279.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13279.508468750002,"end":13282.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13282.95096875,"end":13283.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13283.86221875,"end":13283.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13283.895968750003,"end":13283.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13284.23346875,"end":13287.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13286.106593750003,"end":13287.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13290.02159375,"end":13291.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13291.75971875,"end":13292.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13292.02971875,"end":13292.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13292.18159375,"end":13292.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":13294.594718750002,"end":13294.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13294.61159375,"end":13295.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13296.94034375,"end":13298.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13298.57721875,"end":13298.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13298.88096875,"end":13298.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13301.985968750003,"end":13302.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13303.15034375,"end":13306.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13315.97534375,"end":13319.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13319.468468750001,"end":13319.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13319.97471875,"end":13320.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13321.071593750003,"end":13321.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13321.392218750003,"end":13321.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13322.20221875,"end":13327.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13324.817843750003,"end":13325.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13327.855343750001,"end":13329.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13329.42471875,"end":13329.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13329.62721875,"end":13330.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13330.335968750001,"end":13330.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13330.555343750002,"end":13330.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13367.730968750002,"end":13368.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13421.96721875,"end":13422.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13422.86159375,"end":13429.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13429.965968750003,"end":13430.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13431.383468750002,"end":13431.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13431.602843750003,"end":13432.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13453.169093750003,"end":13453.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13454.164718750002,"end":13454.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13457.13471875,"end":13459.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13536.362843750001,"end":13537.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13537.695968750002,"end":13539.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13538.20221875,"end":13539.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13539.130343750003,"end":13539.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13576.019093750001,"end":13577.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13623.977843750003,"end":13624.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13624.973468750002,"end":13627.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13632.786593750003,"end":13633.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13634.558468750001,"end":13639.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13639.992218750001,"end":13648.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13648.29471875,"end":13649.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13650.555968750003,"end":13658.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13659.314093750003,"end":13659.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13660.32659375,"end":13663.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13664.07284375,"end":13666.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13667.751593750003,"end":13677.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13678.129718750002,"end":13681.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13682.280968750001,"end":13684.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13686.668468750002,"end":13695.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13691.190968750001,"end":13691.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13696.101593750001,"end":13696.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13697.50221875,"end":13726.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13728.56909375,"end":13729.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13736.46659375,"end":13738.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13738.710968750001,"end":13739.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13739.79096875,"end":13745.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13745.899718750003,"end":13747.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13747.35096875,"end":13747.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13748.34659375,"end":13749.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13749.93284375,"end":13752.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13752.734093750001,"end":13755.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13755.61971875,"end":13759.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13760.31096875,"end":13764.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13764.765968750002,"end":13766.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13766.453468750002,"end":13766.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13766.520968750003,"end":13773.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13773.321593750003,"end":13775.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13775.785343750002,"end":13776.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13776.56159375,"end":13780.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13780.40909375,"end":13785.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13785.505343750003,"end":13788.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13789.015343750001,"end":13790.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13790.922218750002,"end":13791.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13791.52971875,"end":13793.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13796.49096875,"end":13797.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13796.76096875,"end":13798.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13797.317843750003,"end":13797.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13797.95909375,"end":13797.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13797.97596875,"end":13799.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13798.262843750003,"end":13801.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13799.24159375,"end":13799.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13802.17784375,"end":13803.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13804.540343750003,"end":13806.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13813.58534375,"end":13840.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13840.61909375,"end":13851.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13850.38971875,"end":13851.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13851.402218750001,"end":13870.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13870.859093750001,"end":13871.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13871.85471875,"end":13872.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13873.57596875,"end":13874.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13874.68971875,"end":13875.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13876.07346875,"end":13876.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13877.035343750002,"end":13877.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13877.96346875,"end":13884.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13885.540343750003,"end":13886.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13889.438468750002,"end":13893.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13894.04534375,"end":13914.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13915.24034375,"end":13916.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13916.894093750001,"end":13926.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13926.20909375,"end":13927.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13927.930343750002,"end":13934.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13934.66346875,"end":13934.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13936.097843750002,"end":13943.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13946.003468750001,"end":13946.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13947.066593750002,"end":13948.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13950.289718750002,"end":13953.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13953.22596875,"end":13955.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13955.402843750002,"end":13955.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13955.90909375,"end":13978.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13955.942843750003,"end":13958.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13958.254718750002,"end":13958.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13958.44034375,"end":13958.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13958.474093750003,"end":13958.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13958.49096875,"end":13959.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13959.16596875,"end":13959.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13979.11221875,"end":13980.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13980.765968750002,"end":13981.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13981.879718750002,"end":13982.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13982.250968750002,"end":13984.157843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13984.090343750002,"end":13987.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13988.07284375,"end":13989.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13989.034718750001,"end":13989.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13990.08096875,"end":13990.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13990.165343750003,"end":13990.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13990.77284375,"end":13992.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13992.797843750002,"end":13994.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":13996.13909375,"end":13997.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13997.82659375,"end":13998.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14000.45909375,"end":14005.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14009.41971875,"end":14014.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14021.24909375,"end":14025.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14025.45096875,"end":14026.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14027.661593750003,"end":14032.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14032.487843750001,"end":14034.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14034.22596875,"end":14036.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14037.195968750002,"end":14038.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14039.102843750003,"end":14042.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14043.38909375,"end":14053.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14053.29471875,"end":14054.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14055.589718750001,"end":14057.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14059.133468750002,"end":14060.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14061.074093750001,"end":14064.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14064.297218750002,"end":14066.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14067.16596875,"end":14068.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14069.359718750002,"end":14073.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14073.34221875,"end":14076.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14077.965968750003,"end":14081.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14081.965343750002,"end":14089.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14090.082218750002,"end":14095.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14096.44409375,"end":14102.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14118.22971875,"end":14119.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14119.96784375,"end":14120.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14122.17846875,"end":14129.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14129.23221875,"end":14132.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14132.62409375,"end":14134.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14134.51409375,"end":14138.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14138.85096875,"end":14140.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14145.297218750002,"end":14149.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14149.38096875,"end":14149.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14149.48221875,"end":14150.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14151.405968750001,"end":14157.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14157.83534375,"end":14160.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14160.34971875,"end":14164.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14164.500968750002,"end":14166.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14166.69471875,"end":14168.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14168.88846875,"end":14175.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14173.12409375,"end":14173.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14173.42784375,"end":14174.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14174.136593750001,"end":14174.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14176.245968750001,"end":14180.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14180.954093750002,"end":14185.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14186.94471875,"end":14188.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14188.125968750002,"end":14188.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14190.269093750001,"end":14192.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14192.68221875,"end":14193.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14193.74534375,"end":14199.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14199.499718750001,"end":14207.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14207.987843750001,"end":14212.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14212.76346875,"end":14218.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14218.973468750002,"end":14273.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14273.395343750002,"end":14275.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":14275.504718750002,"end":14302.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14304.58034375,"end":14305.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14307.65159375,"end":14311.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14312.460968750001,"end":14314.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14314.85721875,"end":14315.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14315.24534375,"end":14316.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14316.93284375,"end":14320.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14321.52284375,"end":14323.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14323.817843750003,"end":14326.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14326.922843750002,"end":14328.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14329.335968750001,"end":14332.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14332.626593750003,"end":14334.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14334.989093750002,"end":14335.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14335.664093750001,"end":14336.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14336.524718750003,"end":14337.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14337.85784375,"end":14339.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14339.96721875,"end":14340.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14341.18221875,"end":14342.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14343.08909375,"end":14343.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14343.76409375,"end":14344.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14345.45159375,"end":14348.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14348.489093750002,"end":14350.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14350.952843750001,"end":14351.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14352.20159375,"end":14352.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14352.72471875,"end":14355.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14355.711593750002,"end":14356.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14357.179718750001,"end":14360.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14360.706593750001,"end":14362.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14362.934093750002,"end":14363.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14364.368468750003,"end":14368.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14369.24534375,"end":14372.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14373.109718750002,"end":14375.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14375.20221875,"end":14376.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14376.77159375,"end":14377.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14377.88534375,"end":14380.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14380.973468750002,"end":14385.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14385.64784375,"end":14387.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14387.706593750001,"end":14390.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14390.69346875,"end":14397.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14397.86534375,"end":14404.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14405.13846875,"end":14407.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14408.597843750002,"end":14410.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14411.027843750002,"end":14413.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14415.246593750002,"end":14420.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14421.28784375,"end":14422.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14423.39721875,"end":14427.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14428.122218750003,"end":14441.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14441.95971875,"end":14444.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14444.895968750003,"end":14445.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14446.17846875,"end":14447.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14447.96721875,"end":14454.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14454.227843750003,"end":14456.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14456.45534375,"end":14456.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14457.012218750002,"end":14457.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14462.800343750001,"end":14464.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14464.825343750003,"end":14475.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14475.473468750002,"end":14476.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14476.215968750003,"end":14476.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14477.17784375,"end":14478.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14482.40909375,"end":14483.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14484.56909375,"end":14485.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14489.26034375,"end":14491.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14491.504718750002,"end":14491.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14491.52159375,"end":14492.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14493.00659375,"end":14497.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14497.579718750003,"end":14499.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14500.364093750002,"end":14502.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14503.199093750001,"end":14508.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14508.329093750002,"end":14512.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14513.45909375,"end":14517.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14517.914093750001,"end":14519.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14520.360968750003,"end":14521.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14523.027218750001,"end":14528.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14529.304718750001,"end":14538.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14537.590343750002,"end":14550.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14550.70221875,"end":14556.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14556.43971875,"end":14562.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14563.054718750001,"end":14578.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14578.765343750001,"end":14594.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14594.83034375,"end":14601.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14601.32721875,"end":14605.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14605.394093750001,"end":14607.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14608.043468750002,"end":14610.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14611.01346875,"end":14614.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14615.65409375,"end":14616.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14617.594718750002,"end":14666.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14669.333468750003,"end":14671.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14674.058468750001,"end":14682.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14685.617843750002,"end":14689.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":14685.837218750003,"end":14686.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":14687.153468750003,"end":14687.305343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14687.305343750002,"end":14687.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":14687.507843750001,"end":14688.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14690.055968750003,"end":14690.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14691.13596875,"end":14691.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14691.97971875,"end":14700.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14700.501593750003,"end":14701.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14701.581593750001,"end":14701.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14702.189093750003,"end":14707.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14708.04471875,"end":14709.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14709.58034375,"end":14712.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14713.00596875,"end":14715.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14715.419093750003,"end":14716.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14716.245968750001,"end":14719.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14719.992218750001,"end":14723.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14723.485343750002,"end":14729.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14731.922843750002,"end":14731.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14731.93971875,"end":14732.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14733.00284375,"end":14737.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14737.559093750002,"end":14738.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14738.53784375,"end":14739.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14739.415343750003,"end":14747.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14747.633468750002,"end":14751.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14752.054718750001,"end":14753.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14753.92784375,"end":14758.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14758.56846875,"end":14761.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14761.605968750002,"end":14762.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14763.15846875,"end":14768.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14769.21659375,"end":14770.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14770.465343750002,"end":14771.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14771.984093750001,"end":14772.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14774.12721875,"end":14775.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14776.08471875,"end":14777.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14778.599093750003,"end":14779.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14780.219093750002,"end":14782.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14782.598468750002,"end":14783.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14784.184718750003,"end":14785.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14785.551593750002,"end":14788.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14789.06159375,"end":14789.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14789.702843750001,"end":14791.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14792.85846875,"end":14793.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14793.820343750001,"end":14795.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14796.368468750003,"end":14804.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14805.41346875,"end":14805.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14806.78034375,"end":14813.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14814.644093750001,"end":14820.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14820.75284375,"end":14823.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14824.414718750002,"end":14826.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14827.13159375,"end":14829.156593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14829.56159375,"end":14832.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14832.362843750001,"end":14834.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14835.383468750002,"end":14837.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14838.454718750003,"end":14841.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14842.386593750001,"end":14844.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14844.512843750003,"end":14845.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14845.677218750003,"end":14847.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14848.02284375,"end":14850.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14850.925343750001,"end":14852.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14852.59596875,"end":14855.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14855.97096875,"end":14861.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14861.62409375,"end":14873.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14873.976593750001,"end":14882.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14883.24096875,"end":14884.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14885.434718750003,"end":14888.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14888.30346875,"end":14889.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14890.969718750002,"end":14896.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14896.032218750002,"end":14900.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14900.48721875,"end":14901.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14902.934093750002,"end":14904.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14906.02221875,"end":14906.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14907.50721875,"end":14909.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14911.202843750001,"end":14912.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14914.40909375,"end":14914.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14915.62409375,"end":14917.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14918.020343750002,"end":14918.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14918.070968750002,"end":14919.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14920.41659375,"end":14921.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14922.390968750002,"end":14928.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14926.508468750002,"end":14928.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14929.512218750002,"end":14931.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14930.54159375,"end":14932.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14933.106593750003,"end":14933.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14934.49034375,"end":14936.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14936.12721875,"end":14937.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14937.966593750003,"end":14938.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14938.03409375,"end":14938.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14938.75971875,"end":14938.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14940.09284375,"end":14940.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14940.970343750003,"end":14941.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14941.03784375,"end":14941.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14941.071593750003,"end":14941.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14941.122218750003,"end":14946.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14941.965968750003,"end":14942.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14942.20221875,"end":14942.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14946.859718750002,"end":14954.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14953.997843750003,"end":14955.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14955.75284375,"end":14959.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14963.160968750002,"end":14964.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14964.86534375,"end":14965.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14965.675343750001,"end":14968.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14965.72596875,"end":14966.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14966.957843750002,"end":14966.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14970.704093750002,"end":14971.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14971.68284375,"end":14974.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14974.78784375,"end":14979.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14976.37409375,"end":14979.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14979.95159375,"end":14980.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14980.289093750001,"end":14980.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":14985.16596875,"end":14987.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14991.71346875,"end":14992.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14994.160343750002,"end":14996.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14996.387843750003,"end":14998.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":14999.324093750001,"end":14999.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15001.028468750003,"end":15003.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15004.184093750002,"end":15004.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15005.753468750001,"end":15009.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15009.837218750003,"end":15010.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15010.950968750003,"end":15012.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15013.02659375,"end":15014.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15015.55784375,"end":15017.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15018.29159375,"end":15019.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15020.367218750001,"end":15023.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15023.809718750003,"end":15025.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15025.969718750002,"end":15026.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15027.67409375,"end":15029.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15030.137843750003,"end":15030.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15030.559718750003,"end":15038.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15039.16596875,"end":15041.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15041.81534375,"end":15043.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15043.840343750002,"end":15045.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15045.899093750002,"end":15046.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15046.60784375,"end":15048.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15048.970343750003,"end":15050.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15051.72096875,"end":15052.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15053.340968750003,"end":15055.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15055.905968750001,"end":15056.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15057.69471875,"end":15058.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15059.68596875,"end":15061.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15061.94721875,"end":15062.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15063.33096875,"end":15065.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15065.423468750003,"end":15070.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15071.262218750002,"end":15073.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15073.28721875,"end":15074.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15075.379718750002,"end":15075.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15076.324718750002,"end":15080.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15081.52221875,"end":15082.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15082.872218750003,"end":15085.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15086.652218750001,"end":15087.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15088.91346875,"end":15089.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15090.550343750001,"end":15092.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15093.570968750002,"end":15095.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15096.203468750002,"end":15097.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15098.582843750002,"end":15101.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15101.687843750002,"end":15102.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15103.527218750001,"end":15103.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15104.185343750003,"end":15106.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15108.42096875,"end":15111.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15111.62721875,"end":15112.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15113.348468750002,"end":15114.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15114.63096875,"end":15115.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15115.84596875,"end":15117.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15117.870968750001,"end":15118.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15118.984718750002,"end":15120.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15121.988468750002,"end":15123.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15124.064093750003,"end":15125.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15126.03846875,"end":15129.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15129.970343750003,"end":15131.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15131.99534375,"end":15133.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15133.78409375,"end":15135.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15136.51784375,"end":15137.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15137.294093750003,"end":15139.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15139.96034375,"end":15140.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15140.06159375,"end":15141.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15141.69846875,"end":15142.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15144.16221875,"end":15145.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15146.305343750002,"end":15147.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15148.296593750001,"end":15149.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15149.64659375,"end":15150.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15151.33409375,"end":15152.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15152.76846875,"end":15154.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15156.02534375,"end":15158.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15158.55659375,"end":15160.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15161.25659375,"end":15164.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15166.58909375,"end":15167.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15169.22159375,"end":15170.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15171.465968750003,"end":15171.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15172.91721875,"end":15174.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15175.988468750002,"end":15177.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15177.422843750002,"end":15182.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15182.940968750001,"end":15187.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15188.138468750003,"end":15191.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15191.63159375,"end":15193.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15193.31909375,"end":15194.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15194.652218750001,"end":15195.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15195.68159375,"end":15197.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15198.044093750003,"end":15199.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15200.32221875,"end":15201.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15202.49909375,"end":15203.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15204.169718750003,"end":15205.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15205.87409375,"end":15207.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15208.793468750002,"end":15210.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15211.577843750001,"end":15213.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15214.159718750001,"end":15216.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15217.011593750001,"end":15218.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15218.715968750003,"end":15219.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15220.15034375,"end":15221.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15221.550968750002,"end":15222.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15223.677218750003,"end":15224.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15226.292843750001,"end":15227.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15227.676593750002,"end":15228.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15228.773468750001,"end":15231.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15232.08096875,"end":15233.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15233.61659375,"end":15234.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15234.949718750002,"end":15236.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15236.485343750002,"end":15236.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15237.24471875,"end":15242.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15243.032843750003,"end":15243.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15243.94409375,"end":15245.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15246.981593750003,"end":15247.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15247.74096875,"end":15249.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15251.183468750001,"end":15253.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15253.69784375,"end":15254.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15255.098468750002,"end":15256.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15256.954718750003,"end":15262.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15267.51846875,"end":15269.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15270.47159375,"end":15271.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15271.298468750003,"end":15271.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15271.36596875,"end":15272.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15273.137843750003,"end":15275.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15276.074093750001,"end":15279.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15279.90471875,"end":15283.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15283.87034375,"end":15286.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15286.300343750001,"end":15289.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15289.945343750001,"end":15292.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15292.695968750002,"end":15298.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15299.024093750002,"end":15301.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15301.454093750002,"end":15304.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15304.84596875,"end":15306.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15306.972218750001,"end":15308.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15308.17034375,"end":15310.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15310.75221875,"end":15312.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15313.199093750001,"end":15316.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15316.152218750001,"end":15324.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15325.129718750002,"end":15328.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15328.875968750002,"end":15333.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15333.63471875,"end":15335.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15336.11534375,"end":15367.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15367.97534375,"end":15394.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15394.789718750002,"end":15397.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15397.40534375,"end":15399.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15399.480968750002,"end":15406.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15406.281593750002,"end":15415.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15416.187218750001,"end":15427.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15428.269718750002,"end":15441.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15441.769718750002,"end":15442.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15442.74846875,"end":15447.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15448.097843750002,"end":15449.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15449.700968750003,"end":15451.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15452.046593750001,"end":15455.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15455.387843750003,"end":15456.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15457.51409375,"end":15460.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15460.028468750003,"end":15463.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15463.977218750002,"end":15474.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15474.034718750001,"end":15478.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15478.50659375,"end":15480.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15480.970343750003,"end":15481.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15481.949093750001,"end":15481.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15482.10096875,"end":15483.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15483.282218750002,"end":15513.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15513.032843750003,"end":15525.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15526.33034375,"end":15527.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15527.089718750001,"end":15527.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15528.152843750002,"end":15528.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15528.18659375,"end":15528.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15531.08909375,"end":15557.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15557.29596875,"end":15558.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15559.72596875,"end":15560.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15560.535968750002,"end":15586.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15588.44721875,"end":15590.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15590.99534375,"end":15597.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15597.779093750003,"end":15600.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15600.47909375,"end":15605.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15605.946593750003,"end":15613.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15613.118468750003,"end":15616.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15616.78034375,"end":15618.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15619.14284375,"end":15622.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15622.551593750002,"end":15625.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15625.673468750003,"end":15629.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15629.571593750003,"end":15635.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15635.64659375,"end":15640.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15641.164718750002,"end":15641.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15641.82284375,"end":15643.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15643.78034375,"end":15648.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15649.602218750002,"end":15651.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15651.57659375,"end":15653.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15653.73659375,"end":15657.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15657.685343750003,"end":15659.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15660.149093750002,"end":15663.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15663.13596875,"end":15669.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15670.155968750001,"end":15670.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15670.72971875,"end":15673.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15674.138468750003,"end":15675.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15675.37034375,"end":15677.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15677.294093750003,"end":15680.517218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15680.770343750002,"end":15681.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15681.512843750003,"end":15682.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15682.559093750002,"end":15685.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15686.32221875,"end":15688.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15689.055968750003,"end":15689.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15690.051593750002,"end":15692.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15692.49846875,"end":15696.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15696.582218750002,"end":15697.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15698.742218750001,"end":15702.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15702.758468750002,"end":15703.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15704.125343750002,"end":15704.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15705.458468750003,"end":15706.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15706.52159375,"end":15707.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":15708.411593750003,"end":15722.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15724.577843750001,"end":15725.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15727.63221875,"end":15729.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15729.657218750002,"end":15731.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15733.808468750001,"end":15734.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15735.192218750002,"end":15735.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15736.64346875,"end":15737.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15738.465968750003,"end":15739.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15741.689093750003,"end":15743.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15744.304718750001,"end":15745.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15745.907843750003,"end":15747.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15748.28721875,"end":15751.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15751.999718750001,"end":15752.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15753.130343750003,"end":15755.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15756.167843750001,"end":15757.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15758.36159375,"end":15759.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15760.555343750002,"end":15760.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15761.38221875,"end":15761.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15762.64784375,"end":15763.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15765.06096875,"end":15766.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15767.69346875,"end":15769.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15770.055968750003,"end":15771.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15772.50284375,"end":15774.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15774.98346875,"end":15775.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15775.489718750003,"end":15778.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15778.999718750001,"end":15781.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15781.750343750002,"end":15783.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15784.36596875,"end":15786.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15786.42471875,"end":15788.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15789.15846875,"end":15792.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15792.465968750003,"end":15795.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15796.212218750003,"end":15796.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15797.12346875,"end":15798.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15798.96284375,"end":15801.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15802.270343750002,"end":15803.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15804.39659375,"end":15806.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15806.539718750002,"end":15806.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15807.09659375,"end":15808.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15809.30721875,"end":15810.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15810.235343750002,"end":15810.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15811.602218750002,"end":15812.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15813.00284375,"end":15813.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15813.711593750002,"end":15816.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15816.462218750003,"end":15817.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15818.031593750002,"end":15819.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15821.879093750002,"end":15823.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15824.34284375,"end":15839.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15839.969093750002,"end":15845.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15845.031593750002,"end":15851.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15851.96721875,"end":15854.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15853.840343750002,"end":15854.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15855.004718750002,"end":15858.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15858.81846875,"end":15860.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15860.50596875,"end":15877.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15877.583468750003,"end":15882.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15882.81471875,"end":15889.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15889.919093750003,"end":15892.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15894.070343750001,"end":15899.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15899.031593750002,"end":15899.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15899.90909375,"end":15899.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15899.925968750002,"end":15901.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15904.17846875,"end":15904.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15904.85346875,"end":15905.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15905.96721875,"end":15908.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15908.751593750003,"end":15908.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15908.76846875,"end":15909.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15909.966593750003,"end":15914.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15914.82659375,"end":15917.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15917.03721875,"end":15917.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15917.374718750001,"end":15917.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15917.391593750002,"end":15918.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":15919.56846875,"end":15920.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15931.735343750002,"end":15931.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":15931.97159375,"end":15932.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15935.19471875,"end":15936.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15936.24096875,"end":15937.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15937.742843750002,"end":15939.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15940.442843750003,"end":15941.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15942.754718750002,"end":15943.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15944.982218750003,"end":15947.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15947.597843750002,"end":15948.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15950.73659375,"end":15952.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15952.710968750001,"end":15953.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15954.11159375,"end":15954.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15956.38971875,"end":15958.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15956.625968750002,"end":15958.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15958.347218750001,"end":15959.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15959.190968750001,"end":15960.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15959.359718750002,"end":15961.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15960.777218750001,"end":15961.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15961.958468750003,"end":15962.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15963.03846875,"end":15964.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15964.87784375,"end":15967.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15968.067218750002,"end":15969.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15969.906593750002,"end":15974.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15975.222218750001,"end":15976.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15977.06159375,"end":15978.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15979.17096875,"end":15983.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15984.149093750002,"end":15984.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15984.722843750002,"end":15985.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15985.44846875,"end":15985.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15986.12346875,"end":15987.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15987.55784375,"end":15989.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15992.60346875,"end":15999.876593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15999.606593750003,"end":15999.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15999.876593750003,"end":15999.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15999.927218750003,"end":15999.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15999.94409375,"end":15999.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":15999.977843750003,"end":15999.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":15999.99471875,"end":16003.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16000.61909375,"end":16002.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16003.184093750002,"end":16011.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":16004.297843750002,"end":16007.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16013.24159375,"end":16015.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16018.202843750001,"end":16020.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16020.56534375,"end":16021.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16021.03784375,"end":16021.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16021.45971875,"end":16024.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16024.649093750002,"end":16030.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16027.028468750003,"end":16027.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16028.715968750003,"end":16028.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16028.85096875,"end":16029.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16029.964718750001,"end":16030.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16030.09971875,"end":16030.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16030.302218750003,"end":16035.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16037.001593750003,"end":16053.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16054.112843750001,"end":16064.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16065.250343750002,"end":16075.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16075.56096875,"end":16096.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16103.691593750002,"end":16106.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16106.492843750002,"end":16116.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16117.360343750002,"end":16124.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16125.645968750003,"end":16125.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16125.66284375,"end":16146.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16146.570968750002,"end":16164.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16164.94784375,"end":16165.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16166.517218750003,"end":16166.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16166.601593750001,"end":16166.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16166.820968750002,"end":16166.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16167.141593750002,"end":16169.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16172.76096875,"end":16189.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16189.83846875,"end":16192.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16192.96034375,"end":16196.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16196.68971875,"end":16200.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16201.583468750003,"end":16207.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16207.810343750003,"end":16208.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":16209.56534375,"end":16214.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16222.778468750003,"end":16222.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16223.132843750001,"end":16223.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16224.719093750002,"end":16225.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16225.42784375,"end":16225.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16225.950968750003,"end":16226.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16251.617843750002,"end":16251.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":16251.668468750002,"end":16251.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16251.972218750001,"end":16252.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16271.985968750003,"end":16272.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16280.474093750003,"end":16281.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16287.426593750002,"end":16288.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16327.26846875,"end":16328.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16328.601593750001,"end":16330.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16330.52534375,"end":16330.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16330.980968750002,"end":16333.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16330.997843750003,"end":16331.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16331.082218750002,"end":16331.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16333.59659375,"end":16334.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16344.970343750003,"end":16345.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16345.965968750003,"end":16346.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16346.185343750003,"end":16346.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16346.235968750003,"end":16347.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16347.99096875,"end":16349.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16351.63596875,"end":16352.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16368.747218750003,"end":16369.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16370.637218750002,"end":16372.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16372.93221875,"end":16373.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16373.97846875,"end":16374.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16374.265343750001,"end":16375.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16375.36221875,"end":16376.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":16375.868468750003,"end":16376.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16377.184718750003,"end":16394.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16388.00159375,"end":16388.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16394.279093750003,"end":16394.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16394.98784375,"end":16396.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16397.114093750002,"end":16400.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16400.286593750003,"end":16400.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16401.29909375,"end":16402.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16410.445343749998,"end":16410.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16411.356593750003,"end":16411.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16411.457843750002,"end":16411.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16411.710968749998,"end":16411.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16411.74471875,"end":16411.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16411.82909375,"end":16411.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16411.94721875,"end":16411.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16418.629718750002,"end":16419.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16419.709718750004,"end":16419.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16419.895343750002,"end":16419.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16438.08659375,"end":16438.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16438.33971875,"end":16440.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16441.37721875,"end":16442.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16443.16596875,"end":16443.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16446.33846875,"end":16446.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16447.317218750002,"end":16447.671593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16506.818468750003,"end":16507.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16507.72971875,"end":16508.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16511.374718749998,"end":16512.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16513.63596875,"end":16513.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16513.93971875,"end":16514.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16514.327843749998,"end":16514.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16514.86784375,"end":16514.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":16568.074718750002,"end":16568.530343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":16568.69909375,"end":16569.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16580.325968750003,"end":16580.342843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16580.460968749998,"end":16580.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16599.15846875,"end":16601.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16608.085343749997,"end":16608.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16610.582843750002,"end":16611.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16611.79784375,"end":16613.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16613.974718750003,"end":16614.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16627.44096875,"end":16627.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16627.96409375,"end":16628.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16629.97221875,"end":16630.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16630.849718750003,"end":16634.342843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16631.153468750003,"end":16632.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16643.303468750004,"end":16646.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16644.80534375,"end":16645.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16647.859718749998,"end":16647.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16647.927218750003,"end":16648.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16648.146593750003,"end":16648.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16658.84534375,"end":16660.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16708.137218750002,"end":16709.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16790.335343749997,"end":16792.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16794.520343750002,"end":16796.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16797.490343750003,"end":16797.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16797.65909375,"end":16797.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":16797.996593750002,"end":16799.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16811.732843750004,"end":16811.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16811.969093749998,"end":16812.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16812.137843750003,"end":16812.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":16812.340343750002,"end":16812.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16812.492218749998,"end":16812.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16841.21346875,"end":16842.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16850.545343750004,"end":16853.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16853.093468749998,"end":16853.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16853.24534375,"end":16853.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16854.17346875,"end":16855.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16855.607843750004,"end":16858.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16858.51034375,"end":16858.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16859.37096875,"end":16861.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16859.79284375,"end":16859.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16862.172218749998,"end":16862.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16866.10409375,"end":16867.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16866.762218750002,"end":16866.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16868.770343750002,"end":16869.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16871.217218750004,"end":16871.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16881.966593750003,"end":16882.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16883.890343749998,"end":16885.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16886.05034375,"end":16886.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16886.99534375,"end":16887.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16888.04159375,"end":16888.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16888.05846875,"end":16893.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16920.30659375,"end":16921.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16922.179718749998,"end":16923.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16923.968468749998,"end":16925.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16926.22971875,"end":16926.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16927.37721875,"end":16929.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16929.99284375,"end":16931.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16931.79846875,"end":16937.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16936.01721875,"end":16936.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16939.10534375,"end":16940.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16940.843468749998,"end":16941.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16945.349093750003,"end":16945.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16946.648468749998,"end":16946.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16946.834093750003,"end":16947.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16947.18846875,"end":16947.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16947.22221875,"end":16948.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16948.69034375,"end":16948.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16952.16659375,"end":16952.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16954.090343750002,"end":16955.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16957.380968750003,"end":16958.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16958.444093750004,"end":16958.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17076.164093749998,"end":17077.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17100.97034375,"end":17101.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17101.965968750003,"end":17102.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17123.481593750003,"end":17123.717843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17123.97096875,"end":17124.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17125.57409375,"end":17125.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17125.844093749998,"end":17127.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17130.53534375,"end":17133.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17134.247843750003,"end":17134.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17135.02409375,"end":17135.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17135.192843750003,"end":17136.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17136.72846875,"end":17136.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17136.762218750002,"end":17136.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17136.93096875,"end":17138.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17139.37784375,"end":17139.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17139.445343749998,"end":17140.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17141.959718750004,"end":17144.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17144.895968750003,"end":17148.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17148.74346875,"end":17150.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17150.36346875,"end":17150.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17152.77659375,"end":17154.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17161.18034375,"end":17161.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17161.230968750002,"end":17161.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17161.787843750004,"end":17162.007218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17162.007218749997,"end":17162.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17162.78346875,"end":17163.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17163.32346875,"end":17163.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17163.559718750003,"end":17163.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17163.593468749998,"end":17163.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17163.96471875,"end":17164.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17165.11221875,"end":17165.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17165.466593750003,"end":17166.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17166.850343750004,"end":17167.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17169.263468750003,"end":17169.702218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17170.37721875,"end":17172.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17172.46971875,"end":17174.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17174.730968750002,"end":17175.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":17175.270968750003,"end":17175.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17175.42284375,"end":17176.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17177.582843750002,"end":17178.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17179.05096875,"end":17181.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17183.387843750003,"end":17183.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17183.927843750003,"end":17187.741593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17187.741593749997,"end":17188.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17188.21409375,"end":17188.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17188.29846875,"end":17197.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17188.61909375,"end":17189.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17189.05784375,"end":17190.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17190.12096875,"end":17190.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17198.42346875,"end":17200.499093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":17198.828468749998,"end":17205.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17205.038468749997,"end":17208.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17210.843468749998,"end":17211.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17213.49284375,"end":17215.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17215.889093750004,"end":17217.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":17218.16721875,"end":17218.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":17219.65221875,"end":17219.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17219.82096875,"end":17223.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":17220.006593750004,"end":17220.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17224.27596875,"end":17226.672218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17226.90846875,"end":17228.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17249.875343749998,"end":17250.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17253.975968749997,"end":17254.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17254.83659375,"end":17255.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17255.05596875,"end":17255.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17255.51159375,"end":17256.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17257.654718750004,"end":17259.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17259.27471875,"end":17259.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17261.38409375,"end":17261.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17261.974718750003,"end":17262.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17262.75096875,"end":17264.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17273.466593750003,"end":17273.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17274.05721875,"end":17275.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17275.96409375,"end":17278.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17279.507843749998,"end":17283.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17283.97971875,"end":17284.030343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17286.71346875,"end":17286.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17286.966593750003,"end":17287.405343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17289.801593750002,"end":17290.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17290.442843750003,"end":17291.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17290.864718750003,"end":17290.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17291.99534375,"end":17294.475968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17294.475968749997,"end":17294.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17295.201593750004,"end":17295.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17295.25221875,"end":17295.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17295.285968750002,"end":17295.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17295.319718749997,"end":17295.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17297.969093749998,"end":17298.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17298.762218750002,"end":17298.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17299.437218749998,"end":17299.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17299.639718749997,"end":17301.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17299.70721875,"end":17300.483468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17301.647843749997,"end":17302.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17302.457843750002,"end":17305.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17305.967843749997,"end":17309.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17309.59596875,"end":17310.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17310.74346875,"end":17314.624718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17316.902843750002,"end":17318.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17351.46284375,"end":17355.749093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17355.968468749998,"end":17356.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17356.30596875,"end":17357.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17358.364718750003,"end":17360.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17362.819718749997,"end":17363.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17363.629718750002,"end":17364.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17381.97284375,"end":17382.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17417.882843749998,"end":17418.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":17418.77721875,"end":17420.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17421.882218749997,"end":17422.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17422.96221875,"end":17423.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17495.13659375,"end":17497.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17519.976593749998,"end":17520.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17573.976593749998,"end":17575.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17575.967843749997,"end":17578.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17579.29221875,"end":17579.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17579.41034375,"end":17579.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17579.93346875,"end":17579.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17579.967218750004,"end":17580.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17580.00096875,"end":17580.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17590.96971875,"end":17591.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17592.97784375,"end":17593.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17593.264718749997,"end":17593.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17593.973468750002,"end":17594.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17594.496593750002,"end":17594.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17594.513468750003,"end":17594.530343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17594.530343749997,"end":17594.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17594.66534375,"end":17594.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17594.749718749998,"end":17595.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.00284375,"end":17595.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17595.42471875,"end":17595.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.44159375,"end":17595.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.52596875,"end":17595.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17595.72846875,"end":17596.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.74534375,"end":17596.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17597.348468750002,"end":17599.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17599.559093750002,"end":17600.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17732.09534375,"end":17733.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17973.30659375,"end":17975.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17975.39909375,"end":17978.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17977.42409375,"end":17977.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17978.402843750002,"end":17979.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17979.02721875,"end":17986.452218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17982.46971875,"end":17982.655343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17982.655343749997,"end":17982.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17982.959093750003,"end":17985.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18333.874718749998,"end":18334.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18334.97159375,"end":18335.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18335.039093749998,"end":18335.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":18336.507218749997,"end":18338.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18459.84659375,"end":18461.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18461.669093750003,"end":18463.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18464.70659375,"end":18466.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18466.647218750004,"end":18467.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18467.87909375,"end":18468.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18469.00971875,"end":18471.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18472.013468750003,"end":18475.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18476.114093750002,"end":18479.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18479.77596875,"end":18483.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18483.97784375,"end":18485.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18486.22221875,"end":18488.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18488.989718750003,"end":18491.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18492.09471875,"end":18493.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18493.866593749997,"end":18494.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18495.098468750002,"end":18495.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18495.70596875,"end":18496.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18496.937843749998,"end":18497.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18499.840343750002,"end":18500.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18502.01721875,"end":18502.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18502.74284375,"end":18516.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18504.98721875,"end":18505.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18505.18971875,"end":18505.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18517.42409375,"end":18517.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18517.879718750002,"end":18518.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18519.263468750003,"end":18523.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18523.380968750003,"end":18524.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18529.54034375,"end":18529.827218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18530.265968749998,"end":18531.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18532.27409375,"end":18533.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18533.77596875,"end":18534.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18536.94846875,"end":18538.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18540.340343750002,"end":18541.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18542.078468749998,"end":18544.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18544.457843750002,"end":18546.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18546.95534375,"end":18548.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18548.474093750003,"end":18549.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18551.15721875,"end":18555.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18557.974718750003,"end":18560.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18562.66596875,"end":18563.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18568.335968749998,"end":18569.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18569.601593749998,"end":18569.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18570.546593749998,"end":18573.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18572.740343750003,"end":18573.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18573.179093749997,"end":18574.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18575.170343750004,"end":18603.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18603.537218750003,"end":18606.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18607.30034375,"end":18607.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18608.262218750002,"end":18609.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18609.848468750002,"end":18612.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18612.16034375,"end":18613.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18614.35409375,"end":18617.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18618.218468749998,"end":18620.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18621.255968750003,"end":18623.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18625.01909375,"end":18627.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18628.49534375,"end":18629.069093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18629.30534375,"end":18630.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18631.53284375,"end":18632.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18635.02596875,"end":18636.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18637.405343749997,"end":18637.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18638.265968749998,"end":18641.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18641.320343749998,"end":18668.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18668.742218749998,"end":18671.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18671.40846875,"end":18672.842843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18672.89346875,"end":18676.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18676.335968749998,"end":18680.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18681.19596875,"end":18681.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18681.600968749997,"end":18682.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18683.355968750002,"end":18684.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18684.351593749998,"end":18684.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18685.14471875,"end":18685.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18685.65096875,"end":18686.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18687.591593750003,"end":18689.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18687.97971875,"end":18689.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18689.65034375,"end":18691.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18691.287218750003,"end":18691.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18692.687843749998,"end":18694.780343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18695.25284375,"end":18695.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18695.57346875,"end":18696.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18695.590343750002,"end":18695.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18697.15971875,"end":18700.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18698.91471875,"end":18702.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18701.80034375,"end":18704.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18704.71971875,"end":18705.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18706.154093750003,"end":18706.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18707.28471875,"end":18708.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18708.668468750002,"end":18709.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18710.00159375,"end":18710.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":18710.03534375,"end":18710.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18710.30534375,"end":18710.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18710.33909375,"end":18710.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18710.389718749997,"end":18710.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18710.406593749998,"end":18710.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18710.44034375,"end":18710.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18710.777843750002,"end":18710.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18711.70596875,"end":18715.874093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18712.21221875,"end":18713.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18716.076593750004,"end":18716.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18716.44784375,"end":18721.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18721.645343750002,"end":18723.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18723.50159375,"end":18723.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18724.64909375,"end":18725.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18725.897843749997,"end":18726.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18726.99471875,"end":18728.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18729.61034375,"end":18729.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18729.96471875,"end":18731.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18731.31471875,"end":18732.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18732.934718750003,"end":18734.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18734.757218749997,"end":18736.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18736.647218750004,"end":18738.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18738.334718750004,"end":18739.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18739.02659375,"end":18739.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18739.97159375,"end":18739.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18739.98846875,"end":18740.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18741.11909375,"end":18741.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18742.36784375,"end":18750.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18750.788468749997,"end":18752.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18752.52659375,"end":18752.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18753.015968749998,"end":18753.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18753.03284375,"end":18753.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18754.92284375,"end":18754.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18754.93971875,"end":18754.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18754.990343750003,"end":18755.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18755.02409375,"end":18755.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18758.078468749998,"end":18758.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18758.11221875,"end":18758.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18759.17534375,"end":18759.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18759.192218750002,"end":18760.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18762.297218749998,"end":18764.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18764.72721875,"end":18767.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18768.507218749997,"end":18771.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18771.949718750002,"end":18776.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18775.358468749997,"end":18776.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18776.37096875,"end":18776.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18776.708468750003,"end":18777.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18779.054093749997,"end":18780.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18780.58971875,"end":18780.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18780.606593750003,"end":18780.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18781.31534375,"end":18782.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18782.614718750003,"end":18783.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18783.12096875,"end":18783.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18783.593468749998,"end":18784.217843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18784.217843749997,"end":18784.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18784.38659375,"end":18786.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18786.05721875,"end":18786.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18786.25971875,"end":18786.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18786.88409375,"end":18787.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18787.035968750002,"end":18787.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18787.457843750002,"end":18787.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18787.474718750003,"end":18787.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18787.94721875,"end":18788.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18788.031593749998,"end":18788.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18788.60534375,"end":18788.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18788.723468750002,"end":18788.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18788.976593749998,"end":18789.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18789.02721875,"end":18789.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18789.702218749997,"end":18789.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18789.719093749998,"end":18790.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18790.529093750003,"end":18792.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18792.520343750002,"end":18792.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18792.537218750003,"end":18794.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18794.967218750004,"end":18795.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18795.64221875,"end":18796.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18798.17346875,"end":18798.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18798.747218750003,"end":18800.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18800.873468750004,"end":18801.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18804.18096875,"end":18804.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18804.687218749998,"end":18804.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18804.94034375,"end":18806.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18806.965343750002,"end":18808.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18808.93971875,"end":18809.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18810.28971875,"end":18811.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18810.357218750003,"end":18810.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18810.54284375,"end":18811.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18811.420343750004,"end":18811.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18811.825343750003,"end":18812.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18813.07409375,"end":18813.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18814.812218749998,"end":18815.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18815.318468750003,"end":18815.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18816.803468750004,"end":18816.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18816.97221875,"end":18817.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18818.42346875,"end":18820.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18820.43159375,"end":18821.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18822.25409375,"end":18824.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18825.038468749997,"end":18826.725968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18826.725968749997,"end":18826.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18827.18159375,"end":18827.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18827.232218750003,"end":18827.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18828.717218750004,"end":18828.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18828.734093749998,"end":18829.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18829.94909375,"end":18830.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18830.826593750004,"end":18830.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":18830.97846875,"end":18831.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18832.311593750004,"end":18833.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18832.34534375,"end":18832.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18833.256593750004,"end":18834.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18833.560343750003,"end":18833.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18833.695343749998,"end":18833.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18833.982218750003,"end":18834.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18834.47159375,"end":18839.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18839.179718749998,"end":18840.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18841.035968750002,"end":18842.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18843.145343750002,"end":18843.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18844.309718750003,"end":18846.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18848.15721875,"end":18848.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18848.19096875,"end":18849.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18848.89971875,"end":18848.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18849.169718750003,"end":18849.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18850.08096875,"end":18853.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18852.764093750004,"end":18857.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18857.25284375,"end":18859.851593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18859.193468750003,"end":18864.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18864.340343750002,"end":18868.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":18867.07409375,"end":18867.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18867.69846875,"end":18867.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18868.94721875,"end":18869.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18872.271593750003,"end":18872.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18873.199718750002,"end":18874.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18874.920968750004,"end":18876.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18877.215968750003,"end":18880.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18880.287218750003,"end":18880.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18882.497843750003,"end":18882.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18882.531593749998,"end":18883.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18883.679093749997,"end":18884.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18885.51846875,"end":18886.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18887.07096875,"end":18889.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18890.15909375,"end":18890.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18892.79159375,"end":18893.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18893.41596875,"end":18893.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":18893.71971875,"end":18894.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18894.25971875,"end":18894.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18895.896593750003,"end":18898.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18896.217218750004,"end":18896.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":18899.085968749998,"end":18904.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18904.553468750004,"end":18905.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18904.62096875,"end":18904.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18906.139718750004,"end":18908.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18908.62034375,"end":18909.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18910.29096875,"end":18912.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18913.14284375,"end":18914.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18914.93159375,"end":18919.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18919.538468749997,"end":18919.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18920.19659375,"end":18920.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18920.23034375,"end":18921.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18921.79971875,"end":18921.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18922.66034375,"end":18923.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18923.99346875,"end":18925.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18926.87909375,"end":18931.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18928.53284375,"end":18929.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18931.18221875,"end":18931.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18931.40159375,"end":18932.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18932.85284375,"end":18936.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18938.286593750003,"end":18939.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18940.26096875,"end":18951.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18951.02721875,"end":18951.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18951.19596875,"end":18951.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18951.482843750004,"end":18951.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18951.51659375,"end":18952.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18952.49534375,"end":18952.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18952.512218750002,"end":18953.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18954.16596875,"end":18954.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18954.58784375,"end":18954.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18954.60471875,"end":18954.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18955.00971875,"end":18956.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18957.608468750004,"end":18957.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18958.435343750003,"end":18959.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18960.325343750003,"end":18960.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18962.09721875,"end":18962.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18963.396593750003,"end":18963.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18963.717218750004,"end":18963.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18965.77596875,"end":18965.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18965.79284375,"end":18965.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18965.97846875,"end":18966.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18966.012218750002,"end":18966.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18969.944093750004,"end":18971.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18971.412218750003,"end":18972.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18973.217843750004,"end":18974.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18974.365343750003,"end":18976.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18977.14971875,"end":18979.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18980.13659375,"end":18980.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18981.50346875,"end":18987.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18988.77659375,"end":18992.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18993.164093749998,"end":18996.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18996.404093750003,"end":18999.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":18997.450343750003,"end":19001.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19001.63534375,"end":19001.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19001.685968750004,"end":19001.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19002.192218750002,"end":19002.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19002.209093750003,"end":19003.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19003.76159375,"end":19003.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19003.778468750003,"end":19004.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19005.09471875,"end":19005.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19005.786593750003,"end":19008.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19008.672218749998,"end":19010.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19010.68034375,"end":19011.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19011.84471875,"end":19011.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19011.86159375,"end":19011.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19011.96284375,"end":19012.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19012.94159375,"end":19013.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19014.949718750002,"end":19016.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19016.029718750004,"end":19016.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19016.569718749997,"end":19016.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19016.974718750003,"end":19017.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19017.02534375,"end":19022.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19022.94846875,"end":19024.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19025.327843749998,"end":19027.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19029.107843750004,"end":19029.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19029.14159375,"end":19029.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19030.474718750003,"end":19031.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19032.12846875,"end":19032.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19033.46159375,"end":19033.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19035.351593749998,"end":19037.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19038.03471875,"end":19039.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19040.177843750003,"end":19041.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":19041.004718750002,"end":19041.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19041.51096875,"end":19043.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19045.61159375,"end":19046.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19047.38346875,"end":19047.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19047.974093750003,"end":19048.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19048.733468750004,"end":19050.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19050.35346875,"end":19051.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19052.226593749998,"end":19052.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19053.50909375,"end":19055.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19055.83784375,"end":19057.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19057.575968750003,"end":19058.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19058.976593749998,"end":19060.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19060.37721875,"end":19061.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":19062.14909375,"end":19063.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":19063.83659375,"end":19063.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19063.98846875,"end":19073.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":19064.005343750003,"end":19064.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":19064.07284375,"end":19064.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19073.809718750003,"end":19074.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19075.176593750002,"end":19078.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":19076.61096875,"end":19077.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19078.804718749998,"end":19080.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19080.71159375,"end":19081.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19081.69034375,"end":19084.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19085.67284375,"end":19085.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19086.702218750004,"end":19093.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19093.840343750002,"end":19094.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19094.920343750004,"end":19097.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19097.82284375,"end":19099.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19099.81409375,"end":19100.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19099.864718750003,"end":19099.999718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19100.86034375,"end":19101.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19101.80534375,"end":19102.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19103.121593750002,"end":19103.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19104.26909375,"end":19105.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19106.37846875,"end":19111.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19111.96409375,"end":19112.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19113.75284375,"end":19116.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19116.89159375,"end":19117.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19118.19096875,"end":19119.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19120.570343749998,"end":19122.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19122.89909375,"end":19124.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19125.210968749998,"end":19126.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19126.780343750004,"end":19129.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19130.52659375,"end":19131.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19132.382843749998,"end":19133.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19134.96471875,"end":19136.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19140.01034375,"end":19140.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19141.39409375,"end":19142.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19145.207843750002,"end":19146.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19146.77721875,"end":19147.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19147.570343749998,"end":19148.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19148.56596875,"end":19149.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19151.58659375,"end":19151.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19151.974718750003,"end":19155.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19154.87721875,"end":19158.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19159.872218750003,"end":19165.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19165.52534375,"end":19166.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19167.09471875,"end":19169.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19170.28409375,"end":19172.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19172.93346875,"end":19175.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19176.30846875,"end":19177.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19177.57409375,"end":19182.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19182.670343750004,"end":19185.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19186.39971875,"end":19206.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19206.78471875,"end":19209.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19209.147218750004,"end":19217.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19218.91784375,"end":19219.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19219.96409375,"end":19223.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":19223.693468750003,"end":19223.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19223.72721875,"end":19223.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19223.777843750002,"end":19225.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19223.794718750003,"end":19223.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19226.08971875,"end":19226.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19227.473468750002,"end":19227.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19228.148468749998,"end":19229.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19230.08909375,"end":19230.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19230.105968750002,"end":19231.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19233.632843749998,"end":19235.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19235.185343750003,"end":19236.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19236.92346875,"end":19238.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19241.395343750002,"end":19244.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19245.49596875,"end":19247.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19249.69784375,"end":19252.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19252.53284375,"end":19253.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19253.039093749998,"end":19255.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19256.36346875,"end":19266.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19266.724718750003,"end":19281.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19281.97971875,"end":19284.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19284.79784375,"end":19292.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19293.37034375,"end":19295.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19295.04096875,"end":19297.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19298.365343750003,"end":19302.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19303.967843750004,"end":19310.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19307.07284375,"end":19308.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19308.895343750002,"end":19313.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19310.88659375,"end":19310.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19312.101593749998,"end":19316.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19315.39221875,"end":19320.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19319.594093749998,"end":19320.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19320.825968750003,"end":19322.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19321.045343750004,"end":19321.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19322.074718750002,"end":19324.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19322.125343749998,"end":19322.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19323.660968750002,"end":19326.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19324.521593750003,"end":19326.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19326.27659375,"end":19326.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19327.035968750002,"end":19329.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19329.73596875,"end":19330.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19330.05659375,"end":19330.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19332.72284375,"end":19332.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19333.14471875,"end":19333.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19333.802843750003,"end":19335.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19335.67596875,"end":19336.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19337.24534375,"end":19337.616593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19338.882218749997,"end":19340.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19341.092843750004,"end":19341.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19341.76784375,"end":19343.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19343.53971875,"end":19345.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19345.834718750004,"end":19346.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19348.062218749998,"end":19348.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19349.209718750004,"end":19349.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19349.90159375,"end":19352.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19352.483468750004,"end":19352.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19353.023468749998,"end":19353.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19353.614093750002,"end":19355.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19355.99346875,"end":19356.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19357.529093750003,"end":19359.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19361.528468750003,"end":19361.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19362.372218750003,"end":19363.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19365.139718750004,"end":19365.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19365.561593750004,"end":19367.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19371.872843750003,"end":19372.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19373.121593750002,"end":19374.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19375.18034375,"end":19376.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19377.61034375,"end":19377.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19378.28534375,"end":19380.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19380.79971875,"end":19381.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19382.16659375,"end":19382.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19382.858468750004,"end":19385.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19385.777843750002,"end":19387.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19387.54971875,"end":19389.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19389.591593750003,"end":19390.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19391.97096875,"end":19394.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19394.94096875,"end":19396.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19397.910968750002,"end":19398.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19399.05846875,"end":19399.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19401.944093750004,"end":19411.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19412.03534375,"end":19416.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19416.87846875,"end":19419.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19419.865343750003,"end":19425.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19426.429718749998,"end":19454.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19440.840968750003,"end":19441.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19454.39159375,"end":19464.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19463.436593750004,"end":19465.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19466.30534375,"end":19468.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19466.895968750003,"end":19467.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19468.262843750003,"end":19471.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19468.66784375,"end":19468.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19468.701593750004,"end":19468.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19471.452218750004,"end":19471.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19471.51971875,"end":19471.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19471.553468750004,"end":19471.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19471.570343749998,"end":19471.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19471.58721875,"end":19477.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19477.62846875,"end":19477.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19477.763468750003,"end":19477.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19477.965968750003,"end":19478.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19478.624093750004,"end":19480.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19480.48034375,"end":19483.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19483.568468750003,"end":19484.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19485.272843749997,"end":19490.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19490.554718749998,"end":19492.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19492.849718750003,"end":19494.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19495.22909375,"end":19495.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19496.747843750003,"end":19497.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19497.86159375,"end":19497.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19497.87846875,"end":19498.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19499.616593749997,"end":19499.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19499.97096875,"end":19500.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19500.139718750004,"end":19500.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19500.20721875,"end":19500.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19500.240968750004,"end":19502.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19502.451593750004,"end":19504.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19504.62846875,"end":19508.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19508.678468750004,"end":19508.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19509.640343749998,"end":19510.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19510.905968749998,"end":19511.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19511.98596875,"end":19513.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19514.027843750002,"end":19515.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19515.68159375,"end":19518.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19518.465968750003,"end":19519.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19519.748468750004,"end":19522.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19522.75221875,"end":19523.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19523.79846875,"end":19524.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19524.912218750003,"end":19526.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19527.08909375,"end":19532.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19532.219093749998,"end":19536.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19536.91034375,"end":19538.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19538.17596875,"end":19538.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19538.27721875,"end":19538.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19538.327843749998,"end":19538.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19538.412218750003,"end":19538.429093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19538.429093749997,"end":19538.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19538.935343750003,"end":19539.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19539.036593750003,"end":19539.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19540.403468750003,"end":19540.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19540.97721875,"end":19540.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19541.95596875,"end":19541.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19541.97284375,"end":19542.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19544.639093750004,"end":19545.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19545.02721875,"end":19546.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19546.242218749998,"end":19546.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19546.25909375,"end":19546.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19547.710343749997,"end":19548.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19548.520343750002,"end":19550.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19550.41034375,"end":19553.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19553.835968749998,"end":19554.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19554.69659375,"end":19557.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19558.40909375,"end":19559.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19560.83909375,"end":19562.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19562.155343750004,"end":19562.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19562.172218749998,"end":19562.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19563.606593750003,"end":19565.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19565.37846875,"end":19565.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19565.59784375,"end":19575.351593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":19566.660968750002,"end":19568.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19577.359718749998,"end":19578.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19580.093468749998,"end":19580.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19581.257843749998,"end":19584.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19584.497843750003,"end":19589.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":19589.695343749998,"end":19639.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":19635.79784375,"end":19635.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19635.848468750002,"end":19637.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19639.797218749998,"end":19640.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19640.87721875,"end":19645.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19645.365968750004,"end":19648.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19648.943468750003,"end":19649.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19650.37784375,"end":19650.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19651.01909375,"end":19651.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19652.50409375,"end":19653.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19653.73596875,"end":19656.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19655.609093749998,"end":19657.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19657.684718750003,"end":19681.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19682.30534375,"end":19690.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19690.86096875,"end":19709.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19709.32221875,"end":19711.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19711.53284375,"end":19713.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19714.536593750003,"end":19723.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19722.906593749998,"end":19733.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19733.28471875,"end":19740.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19733.942843750003,"end":19734.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19740.54096875,"end":19742.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19740.574718750002,"end":19754.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19743.848468750002,"end":19744.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19755.18846875,"end":19760.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19757.770343750002,"end":19760.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19760.16659375,"end":19763.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19760.554718749998,"end":19760.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":19760.841593750003,"end":19760.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19760.89221875,"end":19761.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19762.15784375,"end":19767.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19767.74346875,"end":19768.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19773.00846875,"end":19774.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19774.662218750003,"end":19776.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19776.51846875,"end":19777.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19778.00346875,"end":19778.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19779.57284375,"end":19780.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19780.31534375,"end":19780.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19781.15909375,"end":19781.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19782.374093750004,"end":19783.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19784.11221875,"end":19784.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19784.97284375,"end":19786.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19788.51659375,"end":19790.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19790.609093749998,"end":19791.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19793.07284375,"end":19793.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19793.69721875,"end":19793.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19794.86159375,"end":19796.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19796.46471875,"end":19796.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19797.342218750004,"end":19797.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19797.747218750003,"end":19801.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19801.645343750002,"end":19802.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19803.41721875,"end":19807.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19808.34471875,"end":19809.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19810.67346875,"end":19811.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19812.24284375,"end":19813.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19815.702218750004,"end":19816.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19817.10284375,"end":19819.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19819.66784375,"end":19823.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19823.380343750003,"end":19823.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19825.945343749998,"end":19827.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19828.679093749997,"end":19830.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19831.007843749998,"end":19831.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19832.20596875,"end":19833.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19833.387218750002,"end":19833.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19835.86784375,"end":19836.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19836.86346875,"end":19836.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19837.06596875,"end":19837.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19837.099718750003,"end":19837.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19838.39909375,"end":19846.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19847.241593749997,"end":19854.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19855.054718749998,"end":19858.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19858.78409375,"end":19863.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19863.779093750003,"end":19871.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19871.288468749997,"end":19875.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19875.74346875,"end":19877.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19877.97096875,"end":19880.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19880.80596875,"end":19887.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19886.864093750002,"end":19887.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19887.89346875,"end":19897.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19888.045343750004,"end":19888.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19897.57971875,"end":19903.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19904.380343750003,"end":19907.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19907.687843749998,"end":19908.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19909.139093750004,"end":19911.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19911.53534375,"end":19915.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19911.552218750003,"end":19912.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":19915.50096875,"end":19936.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19936.240343750003,"end":19952.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19952.355968750002,"end":19969.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19970.294093750003,"end":19970.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19970.969093749998,"end":19971.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19971.475343750004,"end":19986.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19979.01846875,"end":19980.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19984.570343749998,"end":19985.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19986.038468749997,"end":19986.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19986.156593749998,"end":19994.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19991.03346875,"end":19991.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19991.05034375,"end":19992.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19992.029093750003,"end":19995.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19995.67409375,"end":19996.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19995.707843750002,"end":19996.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":19996.247843750003,"end":19996.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":19997.091593750003,"end":20007.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20001.934718750003,"end":20002.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20002.82909375,"end":20003.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20003.18346875,"end":20003.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":20004.162218750003,"end":20005.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20007.72284375,"end":20008.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20009.140343749998,"end":20012.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20010.43971875,"end":20011.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20013.021593750003,"end":20013.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20013.73034375,"end":20014.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20014.57409375,"end":20018.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20015.72159375,"end":20017.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20017.81409375,"end":20017.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20018.96159375,"end":20021.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20020.37909375,"end":20020.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20020.412843750004,"end":20021.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20021.965343750002,"end":20022.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20022.57284375,"end":20024.007218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20024.496593750002,"end":20026.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20027.280968749998,"end":20059.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20027.95596875,"end":20028.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20028.47909375,"end":20028.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20033.777843750002,"end":20034.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20059.545968750004,"end":20061.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20061.655343750004,"end":20098.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20098.746593750002,"end":20103.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20104.01159375,"end":20109.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20109.293468750002,"end":20114.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20111.217218750004,"end":20111.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20111.402843750002,"end":20111.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20111.50409375,"end":20111.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20113.934093750002,"end":20114.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20114.76096875,"end":20114.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20114.777843750002,"end":20114.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20114.794718750003,"end":20115.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20115.68909375,"end":20115.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20115.70596875,"end":20115.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20116.56659375,"end":20119.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20120.21159375,"end":20121.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20122.35471875,"end":20123.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20123.94096875,"end":20129.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20130.505343750003,"end":20132.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20133.20534375,"end":20134.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20136.47909375,"end":20136.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20137.137218750002,"end":20138.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20138.520968750003,"end":20140.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20142.435968750004,"end":20144.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20142.72284375,"end":20142.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20142.874718749998,"end":20143.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20143.043468750002,"end":20143.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20144.730968750002,"end":20146.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20146.78971875,"end":20150.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20146.992218749998,"end":20147.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20147.059718750003,"end":20147.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20148.156593749998,"end":20149.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20150.08034375,"end":20155.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20154.653468750003,"end":20154.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20154.974093750003,"end":20155.935968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20155.935968750004,"end":20155.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20157.184718750003,"end":20159.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20159.02409375,"end":20159.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20161.015343749998,"end":20161.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20161.099718750003,"end":20161.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20161.90971875,"end":20162.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20162.027843750002,"end":20163.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20165.031593749998,"end":20165.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20166.31409375,"end":20166.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20167.27596875,"end":20169.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20168.22096875,"end":20168.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20168.84534375,"end":20168.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20169.942218750002,"end":20174.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20170.465343750002,"end":20174.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20174.46471875,"end":20174.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20174.717843750004,"end":20175.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20175.81471875,"end":20178.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20178.615968750004,"end":20178.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20180.202218750004,"end":20180.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20180.944718749997,"end":20183.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20184.724718750003,"end":20184.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20186.14221875,"end":20186.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20187.44159375,"end":20193.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20190.732218750003,"end":20193.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20193.499718749998,"end":20193.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20193.702218750004,"end":20194.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20194.545968750004,"end":20195.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20196.030968749998,"end":20197.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20199.03471875,"end":20201.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20202.105968750002,"end":20203.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20204.82284375,"end":20206.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20207.522843749997,"end":20211.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20212.41659375,"end":20217.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20217.56346875,"end":20220.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20220.702218750004,"end":20223.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20223.874718749998,"end":20225.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20226.13596875,"end":20227.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20228.835968749998,"end":20231.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20232.02534375,"end":20233.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20234.708468750003,"end":20236.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20237.52659375,"end":20238.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20238.724718750003,"end":20240.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20240.90159375,"end":20241.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20241.82971875,"end":20242.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20243.669093750003,"end":20244.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20244.107843750004,"end":20245.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20245.76159375,"end":20250.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20251.02659375,"end":20253.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20254.452218750004,"end":20256.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20256.62909375,"end":20259.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20260.39221875,"end":20261.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20262.164093749998,"end":20262.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20262.872843750003,"end":20264.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20264.71221875,"end":20265.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20266.652843750002,"end":20266.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20267.310968750004,"end":20271.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20271.833468750003,"end":20273.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20273.757218749997,"end":20274.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20275.19159375,"end":20280.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20282.819093750004,"end":20282.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20282.86971875,"end":20292.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20293.281593749998,"end":20296.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20297.179718749998,"end":20299.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20299.64346875,"end":20314.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20314.93221875,"end":20329.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20330.42346875,"end":20334.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20335.08096875,"end":20341.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20341.780343750004,"end":20343.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20344.210343749997,"end":20345.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20346.285968750002,"end":20350.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20351.12909375,"end":20367.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20367.514718750004,"end":20373.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20373.48846875,"end":20374.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20375.34471875,"end":20394.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20394.801593750002,"end":20395.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20396.421593749998,"end":20400.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20400.33659375,"end":20401.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20401.973468750002,"end":20406.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20406.27659375,"end":20407.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20407.62659375,"end":20422.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20422.965968750003,"end":20427.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20427.25221875,"end":20435.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20435.77409375,"end":20444.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20445.139718750004,"end":20453.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20453.08784375,"end":20454.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20454.57284375,"end":20456.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20455.07909375,"end":20455.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20456.88471875,"end":20457.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20458.28534375,"end":20458.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20459.12909375,"end":20459.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20459.85471875,"end":20461.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20460.15846875,"end":20463.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20462.318468750003,"end":20463.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20464.68096875,"end":20466.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20466.250343749998,"end":20466.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20467.600343750004,"end":20467.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20468.224718750003,"end":20474.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20474.41784375,"end":20481.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20482.129718750002,"end":20483.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20484.18846875,"end":20488.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20488.255343750003,"end":20489.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20488.592843750004,"end":20490.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20490.83721875,"end":20493.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20491.78221875,"end":20496.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20493.874718749998,"end":20495.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20495.967218750004,"end":20528.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20527.87784375,"end":20547.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20533.88534375,"end":20534.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20544.077843749998,"end":20550.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20549.528468750003,"end":20558.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20550.86159375,"end":20551.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20552.616593749997,"end":20554.725968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20556.615968750004,"end":20557.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20558.927843750003,"end":20561.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20561.62784375,"end":20562.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20562.06659375,"end":20574.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20564.226593749998,"end":20564.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20565.897218750004,"end":20566.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20566.45409375,"end":20566.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20574.638468750003,"end":20578.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20576.91659375,"end":20577.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20578.047218749998,"end":20588.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20580.527843750002,"end":20580.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20588.72909375,"end":20589.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20589.623468750004,"end":20592.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20593.04909375,"end":20593.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20594.348468750002,"end":20596.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20597.38596875,"end":20600.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20600.44034375,"end":20601.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20601.68909375,"end":20605.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20605.51971875,"end":20605.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20606.380343750003,"end":20609.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20609.92409375,"end":20613.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20613.552218750003,"end":20615.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20616.67409375,"end":20617.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20618.34471875,"end":20619.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20619.94784375,"end":20620.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20620.200968750003,"end":20622.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20622.512843750003,"end":20624.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20625.297218749998,"end":20627.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20629.920968750004,"end":20631.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20629.95471875,"end":20630.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20630.022218750004,"end":20630.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":20630.039093749998,"end":20630.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20634.37596875,"end":20634.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20635.01721875,"end":20636.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20636.80596875,"end":20639.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20639.185343750003,"end":20640.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":20639.47221875,"end":20639.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20641.412843750004,"end":20643.083468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20643.522218750004,"end":20644.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20644.33221875,"end":20645.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20645.86784375,"end":20646.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20647.184093750002,"end":20647.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20647.842218750004,"end":20648.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20649.68159375,"end":20650.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20650.694093750004,"end":20651.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20653.309718750003,"end":20656.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20657.57909375,"end":20658.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20658.929093749997,"end":20662.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20663.249093750004,"end":20667.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20667.788468749997,"end":20671.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20671.382843749998,"end":20674.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20674.116593749997,"end":20675.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20675.989718750003,"end":20679.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20680.49534375,"end":20680.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20681.254718750002,"end":20683.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20684.07284375,"end":20686.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20687.093468749998,"end":20689.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20690.08034375,"end":20691.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20691.194093750004,"end":20691.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20692.39221875,"end":20692.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20693.45534375,"end":20695.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20696.695343749998,"end":20700.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20702.162843750004,"end":20703.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20704.33971875,"end":20705.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20705.68971875,"end":20706.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20707.005968750003,"end":20709.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20709.959093750003,"end":20710.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20710.819718749997,"end":20711.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20712.490343750003,"end":20714.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20715.325343750003,"end":20720.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20720.43846875,"end":20721.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20722.44659375,"end":20726.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20726.614718750003,"end":20729.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20730.04034375,"end":20730.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20731.01909375,"end":20732.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20732.38596875,"end":20734.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20734.47846875,"end":20738.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20738.83221875,"end":20739.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20740.570343749998,"end":20741.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20742.47721875,"end":20743.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20744.789093749998,"end":20745.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20745.75096875,"end":20747.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20747.927843750003,"end":20749.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20749.952843749998,"end":20752.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20752.82159375,"end":20755.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20755.97721875,"end":20756.584718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20757.732218750003,"end":20760.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20760.43221875,"end":20764.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20765.17409375,"end":20768.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20768.75159375,"end":20775.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20775.83909375,"end":20783.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20783.567843750003,"end":20784.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20784.225968749997,"end":20790.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20790.655343750004,"end":20797.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20798.147843749997,"end":20820.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20810.280968749998,"end":20810.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20810.41596875,"end":20810.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20820.35534375,"end":20825.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20825.58659375,"end":20826.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20826.075968750003,"end":20833.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20833.75409375,"end":20836.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20837.145968750003,"end":20840.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20840.67284375,"end":20846.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20846.460968749998,"end":20848.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20849.414093749998,"end":20853.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20854.17284375,"end":20854.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20854.999718749998,"end":20855.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20855.725343750004,"end":20856.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20856.31596875,"end":20857.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20858.357843750004,"end":20858.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20859.606593750003,"end":20861.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20863.217843750004,"end":20863.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20864.11221875,"end":20866.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20866.457843750002,"end":20869.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20869.545968750004,"end":20874.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20875.047218749998,"end":20879.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20878.89471875,"end":20879.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20880.24471875,"end":20884.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20882.23596875,"end":20882.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":20882.25284375,"end":20882.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20882.522843749997,"end":20882.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20884.86846875,"end":20887.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":20888.969093749998,"end":20889.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20889.036593750003,"end":20889.171593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20890.217843750004,"end":20892.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20892.327218750004,"end":20894.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20894.301593750002,"end":20898.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20897.01846875,"end":20897.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20898.014093750004,"end":20898.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20898.06471875,"end":20901.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20901.287843750004,"end":20903.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":20902.114718750003,"end":20902.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20904.139718750004,"end":20905.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20907.514718750004,"end":20907.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20908.20659375,"end":20908.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20909.624093750004,"end":20911.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20912.40846875,"end":20914.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20914.95659375,"end":20917.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20917.87596875,"end":20974.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20974.94721875,"end":20977.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20978.828468749998,"end":20981.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20981.79846875,"end":20983.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20984.616593749997,"end":20986.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20986.87784375,"end":20988.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20989.577843749998,"end":20990.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20992.176593750002,"end":20992.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":20992.76721875,"end":20996.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20996.648468749998,"end":20996.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20996.935343750003,"end":20997.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":20997.559718750003,"end":21001.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21001.93034375,"end":21003.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21003.76971875,"end":21023.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21024.18846875,"end":21024.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21025.403468750003,"end":21029.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21028.84596875,"end":21032.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21032.44034375,"end":21033.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21034.00971875,"end":21036.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21036.86159375,"end":21040.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21041.468468749998,"end":21042.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21043.27409375,"end":21043.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21044.404718750004,"end":21044.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21044.421593749998,"end":21044.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21044.43846875,"end":21044.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21044.45534375,"end":21044.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21044.505968750003,"end":21044.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21044.69159375,"end":21044.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21044.708468750003,"end":21044.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21044.75909375,"end":21048.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21044.843468749998,"end":21045.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21045.855968750002,"end":21046.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21049.467218750004,"end":21051.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21051.44159375,"end":21054.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21054.78284375,"end":21056.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21057.31409375,"end":21059.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21059.64284375,"end":21061.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21061.85346875,"end":21069.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21069.97034375,"end":21076.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21076.686593750004,"end":21080.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21080.905343750004,"end":21100.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21100.952843749998,"end":21104.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21105.137843750003,"end":21106.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21106.15034375,"end":21107.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21107.669093750003,"end":21109.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21109.896593750003,"end":21114.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21115.02659375,"end":21116.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21116.51159375,"end":21117.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21117.186593750004,"end":21120.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21120.662843750004,"end":21121.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21121.65846875,"end":21147.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21148.13534375,"end":21150.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21149.130968750003,"end":21149.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21149.92409375,"end":21151.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21150.75096875,"end":21154.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21155.172218749998,"end":21177.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21177.46409375,"end":21181.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21181.716593750003,"end":21183.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21184.163468749997,"end":21187.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21188.43284375,"end":21206.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21206.99534375,"end":21215.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21215.804093749997,"end":21223.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21224.123468750004,"end":21227.616593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21228.19034375,"end":21238.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21238.484093749998,"end":21251.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21252.169718750003,"end":21254.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21254.53221875,"end":21261.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21261.82221875,"end":21264.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21264.505343750003,"end":21265.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21265.33221875,"end":21265.585343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21266.226593749998,"end":21268.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21268.960343749997,"end":21269.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21270.15846875,"end":21273.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21274.090343750002,"end":21282.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21282.426593750002,"end":21288.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21288.95721875,"end":21290.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21290.32409375,"end":21300.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21300.41534375,"end":21307.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21307.28346875,"end":21307.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21309.30846875,"end":21313.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21313.69596875,"end":21316.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21316.699718750002,"end":21319.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21319.60221875,"end":21325.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21325.84596875,"end":21345.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21345.539093749998,"end":21350.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21351.59721875,"end":21383.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21384.58784375,"end":21387.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21387.23721875,"end":21387.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21387.96284375,"end":21389.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21387.996593750002,"end":21388.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21390.17346875,"end":21418.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21418.371593750002,"end":21433.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21419.789093749998,"end":21419.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21419.83971875,"end":21421.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21422.65784375,"end":21422.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21422.725343750004,"end":21422.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21423.349718750003,"end":21423.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21423.974093750003,"end":21424.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21426.623468750004,"end":21427.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21427.72034375,"end":21429.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21429.036593750003,"end":21429.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21429.12096875,"end":21429.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21430.842218750004,"end":21434.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21433.052843750003,"end":21433.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21434.26784375,"end":21437.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21434.554718749998,"end":21434.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21434.57159375,"end":21434.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21434.58846875,"end":21434.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21438.537218750003,"end":21443.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21445.97909375,"end":21446.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21446.249093750004,"end":21447.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21449.303468750004,"end":21449.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21450.11346875,"end":21451.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21452.999093750004,"end":21455.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21459.023468749998,"end":21462.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21462.297218749998,"end":21467.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21468.405968749998,"end":21475.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21476.640968749998,"end":21477.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21478.615343750003,"end":21485.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21479.07096875,"end":21480.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21480.623468750004,"end":21482.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21483.01971875,"end":21483.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21485.601593749998,"end":21495.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21496.013468750003,"end":21498.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21499.624718749998,"end":21502.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21503.13471875,"end":21504.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21504.754718750002,"end":21507.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21508.450343750003,"end":21514.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21514.74471875,"end":21516.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21516.12846875,"end":21519.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21546.89159375,"end":21557.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21557.607218750003,"end":21566.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21569.031593749998,"end":21576.507218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21569.419718750003,"end":21569.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":21569.655968749998,"end":21570.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21570.179093749997,"end":21570.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":21570.246593750002,"end":21570.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21570.381593750004,"end":21570.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":21570.398468749998,"end":21571.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21577.80659375,"end":21579.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21580.77659375,"end":21581.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21582.66659375,"end":21583.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21583.62846875,"end":21586.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21586.76721875,"end":21586.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21587.91471875,"end":21589.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21589.72034375,"end":21590.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21591.20534375,"end":21591.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21591.96471875,"end":21592.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21592.87596875,"end":21596.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21597.179093749997,"end":21601.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21602.07284375,"end":21602.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21602.93346875,"end":21605.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21605.46471875,"end":21607.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21608.48534375,"end":21610.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21610.746593750002,"end":21614.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21613.176593750002,"end":21616.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21616.83846875,"end":21622.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21617.715968750003,"end":21617.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21620.97284375,"end":21623.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21623.115968750004,"end":21632.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21624.02721875,"end":21624.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21629.849093750003,"end":21630.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21630.96284375,"end":21632.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21632.498468750004,"end":21639.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":21632.54909375,"end":21634.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21635.789093749998,"end":21636.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21637.257218749997,"end":21637.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21637.324718750002,"end":21637.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":21637.780343750004,"end":21637.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21639.771593750003,"end":21641.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21640.733468750004,"end":21641.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21641.374718749998,"end":21641.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21641.91471875,"end":21644.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21641.94846875,"end":21641.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21641.999093750004,"end":21642.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21646.25159375,"end":21647.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21647.75346875,"end":21647.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21647.93909375,"end":21647.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21647.989718750003,"end":21648.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21648.023468749998,"end":21649.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21650.132843749998,"end":21651.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21651.702218750004,"end":21651.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21651.719093749998,"end":21651.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21651.73596875,"end":21654.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21654.16596875,"end":21654.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21654.199718750002,"end":21656.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21654.975968749997,"end":21655.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21656.005343750003,"end":21656.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21656.984093749998,"end":21657.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21657.67596875,"end":21661.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21661.844093749998,"end":21662.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21662.41784375,"end":21662.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":21662.51909375,"end":21667.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21663.919718750003,"end":21673.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":21673.04909375,"end":21673.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21673.28534375,"end":21678.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21678.75284375,"end":21680.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21681.08159375,"end":21681.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21681.70596875,"end":21681.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21681.975968749997,"end":21683.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21683.224718750003,"end":21683.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21683.342843750004,"end":21683.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21683.427218750003,"end":21685.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21685.92471875,"end":21685.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21685.958468750003,"end":21685.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":21685.975343750004,"end":21686.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21686.14409375,"end":21686.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21686.21159375,"end":21686.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21686.920343750004,"end":21687.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21688.64159375,"end":21694.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21694.44659375,"end":21695.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21696.48846875,"end":21699.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21700.26846875,"end":21702.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21703.069718749997,"end":21706.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21706.36034375,"end":21706.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21708.773468749998,"end":21710.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21711.591593750003,"end":21712.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21713.734718749998,"end":21714.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21716.40096875,"end":21716.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21716.789093749998,"end":21723.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21724.990343750003,"end":21738.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21738.996593750002,"end":21739.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21739.958468750003,"end":21739.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21739.975343750004,"end":21747.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21741.662843750004,"end":21741.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21741.79784375,"end":21741.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21741.983468750004,"end":21742.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21747.07971875,"end":21754.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21750.100343750004,"end":21750.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":21750.184718750003,"end":21751.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21751.028468750003,"end":21754.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21754.200968750003,"end":21754.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21754.656593749998,"end":21754.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21755.11221875,"end":21761.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21760.27596875,"end":21760.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21762.89159375,"end":21763.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21763.02659375,"end":21763.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21763.95471875,"end":21763.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21764.545343750004,"end":21770.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21770.28284375,"end":21770.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21770.569718749997,"end":21774.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21772.40909375,"end":21777.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21777.47159375,"end":21777.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21777.539093749998,"end":21779.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21779.02409375,"end":21779.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21779.834093750003,"end":21779.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21779.86784375,"end":21780.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21781.16721875,"end":21791.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21792.03471875,"end":21798.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21794.75159375,"end":21794.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21794.802218750003,"end":21794.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":21794.97096875,"end":21795.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21798.43034375,"end":21798.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21798.44721875,"end":21798.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21799.07159375,"end":21799.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21799.08846875,"end":21799.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21799.881593750004,"end":21799.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21799.898468749998,"end":21803.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21805.75409375,"end":21812.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21812.875343749998,"end":21816.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21817.819718749997,"end":21819.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":21820.70534375,"end":21823.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21824.09721875,"end":21826.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21826.69596875,"end":21830.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21831.100343750004,"end":21834.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21835.47096875,"end":21843.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21843.672218749998,"end":21851.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21852.194093750004,"end":21856.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21857.121593750002,"end":21862.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21863.247218750003,"end":21870.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21870.773468749998,"end":21873.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21873.77721875,"end":21876.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21876.561593750004,"end":21879.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21879.480968750002,"end":21884.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21884.982218750003,"end":21887.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21887.530343750004,"end":21896.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21896.710343749997,"end":21906.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21907.257218749997,"end":21909.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21909.974093750003,"end":21911.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21912.35346875,"end":21916.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21916.319093750004,"end":21933.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21934.257218749997,"end":21936.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21937.092218750004,"end":21946.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21947.234093749998,"end":21977.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21978.250343749998,"end":21980.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21980.89971875,"end":21997.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":21998.41596875,"end":22000.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22002.246593750002,"end":22003.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22005.672218749998,"end":22009.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22011.645968750003,"end":22012.202843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22012.65846875,"end":22014.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22015.59471875,"end":22036.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22037.97096875,"end":22058.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22058.710343749997,"end":22075.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22075.872218750003,"end":22089.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22090.38471875,"end":22096.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22096.51034375,"end":22109.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22110.499718749998,"end":22110.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22111.88346875,"end":22113.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22114.75221875,"end":22115.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22118.12721875,"end":22118.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22119.679718749998,"end":22122.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22122.379718750002,"end":22122.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22123.51034375,"end":22124.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22126.935968750004,"end":22135.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22136.16659375,"end":22138.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22139.187218749998,"end":22139.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22144.874093750004,"end":22148.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22148.957843750002,"end":22150.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22150.72971875,"end":22153.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22153.328468749998,"end":22175.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22175.434718750003,"end":22178.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22179.029093750003,"end":22181.475968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22181.71221875,"end":22202.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22202.569718749997,"end":22205.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22205.69159375,"end":22208.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22206.906593749998,"end":22207.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22208.965343750002,"end":22214.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22214.85471875,"end":22215.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22215.293468750002,"end":22223.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22218.43221875,"end":22218.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22218.85409375,"end":22218.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22223.91659375,"end":22236.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22236.13409375,"end":22240.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22240.58909375,"end":22245.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22246.765343749998,"end":22247.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22248.30096875,"end":22249.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22250.022218750004,"end":22252.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22253.36346875,"end":22253.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22254.224093750003,"end":22254.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":22255.15221875,"end":22272.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22264.41659375,"end":22264.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22264.450343750003,"end":22265.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22272.668468750002,"end":22272.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22272.685343750003,"end":22273.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22273.647218750004,"end":22273.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22273.748468750004,"end":22273.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22273.78221875,"end":22275.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22275.99284375,"end":22293.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22292.496593750002,"end":22293.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22294.335968749998,"end":22296.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22295.989718750003,"end":22300.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22298.06534375,"end":22298.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22300.90034375,"end":22302.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22303.76909375,"end":22307.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22307.380343750003,"end":22319.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22317.960968749998,"end":22343.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22343.49284375,"end":22345.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22345.51784375,"end":22345.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22346.091593750003,"end":22349.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22349.871593750002,"end":22355.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22355.20409375,"end":22356.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22356.874718749998,"end":22356.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22356.975968749997,"end":22357.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22357.195343749998,"end":22357.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22358.140343749998,"end":22360.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22360.317218750002,"end":22360.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22361.481593750003,"end":22363.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22363.590968750003,"end":22367.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22368.38346875,"end":22385.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22386.068468750003,"end":22389.544718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22389.679718749998,"end":22391.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22391.62034375,"end":22392.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22392.75096875,"end":22393.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22393.94909375,"end":22395.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22395.38346875,"end":22398.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22398.33659375,"end":22402.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":22402.67346875,"end":22402.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22402.69034375,"end":22403.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22403.264093750004,"end":22406.335343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22404.023468749998,"end":22404.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22405.08659375,"end":22410.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22407.077843749998,"end":22408.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22410.46971875,"end":22421.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22420.746593750002,"end":22422.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22422.60284375,"end":22430.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22423.04159375,"end":22424.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22429.302218750003,"end":22431.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22431.79971875,"end":22432.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22432.66034375,"end":22447.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22435.59659375,"end":22436.069093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":22436.069093750004,"end":22436.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22440.35534375,"end":22440.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22446.497843750003,"end":22446.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22448.100968749997,"end":22452.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22450.58159375,"end":22450.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22450.598468750002,"end":22451.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22452.33659375,"end":22452.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":22452.35346875,"end":22452.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22452.842843750004,"end":22471.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22472.552843750003,"end":22510.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22480.83846875,"end":22481.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22494.77721875,"end":22495.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22498.000343749998,"end":22498.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22510.656593749998,"end":22532.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22532.62784375,"end":22537.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":22537.90971875,"end":22542.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22541.234093749998,"end":22541.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22541.655968749998,"end":22545.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22542.22971875,"end":22542.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22545.874718749998,"end":22547.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22548.13596875,"end":22554.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22554.56534375,"end":22556.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22557.265343749998,"end":22567.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22568.14971875,"end":22574.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22574.49471875,"end":22582.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22581.413468749997,"end":22583.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22582.94909375,"end":22584.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22584.72096875,"end":22592.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22592.466593750003,"end":22593.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22593.327218750004,"end":22594.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22594.64346875,"end":22600.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22598.20409375,"end":22598.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22601.08971875,"end":22613.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22611.585968749998,"end":22611.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22613.49284375,"end":22614.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22615.264718750004,"end":22626.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22618.70721875,"end":22619.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22621.01909375,"end":22621.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22622.622218750003,"end":22623.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22623.73596875,"end":22624.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22626.233468750004,"end":22627.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22627.02659375,"end":22634.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22634.114093750002,"end":22634.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":22635.85221875,"end":22638.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22636.62846875,"end":22653.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22652.94659375,"end":22654.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22655.106593750003,"end":22656.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22657.958468750003,"end":22658.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22658.44784375,"end":22661.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22662.497843750003,"end":22701.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22700.483468750004,"end":22702.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22702.12034375,"end":22702.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22702.457843750002,"end":22702.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22703.14971875,"end":22708.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22708.465343750002,"end":22710.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22710.76034375,"end":22710.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22710.794093750003,"end":22711.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22711.09784375,"end":22712.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22713.17346875,"end":22716.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22716.46409375,"end":22723.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22724.02409375,"end":22726.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22726.437218749998,"end":22728.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22729.272218750004,"end":22731.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22731.95534375,"end":22733.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22734.04784375,"end":22735.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22736.29221875,"end":22742.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22742.350343750004,"end":22747.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22747.86846875,"end":22750.585343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22750.787843750004,"end":22767.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":22761.08159375,"end":22761.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22767.865343750003,"end":22770.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22770.88596875,"end":22775.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22775.560343750003,"end":22777.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22778.327843749998,"end":22781.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22781.29784375,"end":22782.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22781.804093749997,"end":22785.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22786.005968750003,"end":22798.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22797.278468750003,"end":22803.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22799.910968750002,"end":22801.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22803.606593750003,"end":22808.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22805.850968749997,"end":22806.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22807.90971875,"end":22810.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22811.08221875,"end":22812.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22812.921593749998,"end":22817.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22816.178468750004,"end":22820.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22821.139718750004,"end":22823.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22822.55721875,"end":22824.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22824.04221875,"end":22829.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22828.075343750003,"end":22828.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22828.514093750004,"end":22837.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22841.609093749998,"end":22842.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22844.25846875,"end":22845.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22848.342218750004,"end":22850.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22850.73846875,"end":22851.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22852.240343750003,"end":22853.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22853.03346875,"end":22854.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22854.63659375,"end":22855.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22855.56471875,"end":22858.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22859.34471875,"end":22860.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22861.504718750002,"end":22863.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22864.187843749998,"end":22867.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22867.17471875,"end":22867.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22867.512218750002,"end":22867.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22867.529093750003,"end":22867.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22867.849718750003,"end":22867.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22867.950968750003,"end":22869.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22869.857843750004,"end":22869.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22869.89159375,"end":22870.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22871.08971875,"end":22871.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22871.123468750004,"end":22871.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22872.25409375,"end":22872.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22872.270968750003,"end":22876.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22877.48534375,"end":22881.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22883.560343750003,"end":22883.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22885.264718750004,"end":22885.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22885.95659375,"end":22886.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22886.631593750004,"end":22886.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":22886.66534375,"end":22895.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22894.005968750003,"end":22895.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22895.811593750004,"end":22901.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22901.63346875,"end":22905.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22905.56534375,"end":22908.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22909.36221875,"end":22910.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22911.522218750004,"end":22913.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":22913.935343750003,"end":22915.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22915.943468750003,"end":22917.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22917.81659375,"end":22921.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22921.731593750003,"end":22922.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22922.997218750003,"end":22923.014093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22923.014093750004,"end":22923.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22923.435968750004,"end":22927.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22927.58721875,"end":22928.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22929.038468749997,"end":22932.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":22932.801593750002,"end":22933.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22933.054718749998,"end":22951.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22951.364093750002,"end":22968.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22968.559718750003,"end":22971.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22971.88409375,"end":22973.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22973.60534375,"end":22974.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22975.15784375,"end":22987.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":22987.560968750004,"end":23005.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23005.937843749998,"end":23008.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23009.14409375,"end":23031.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23031.72284375,"end":23045.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23040.295343750004,"end":23040.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":23040.312218749998,"end":23041.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23046.47159375,"end":23047.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23047.72034375,"end":23049.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23050.15034375,"end":23056.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23056.731593750003,"end":23056.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":23056.765343749998,"end":23058.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":23059.33034375,"end":23078.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":23078.922218749998,"end":23097.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23096.13471875,"end":23098.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23098.88534375,"end":23100.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23100.33659375,"end":23102.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23103.62721875,"end":23105.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23105.567843750003,"end":23107.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23108.18346875,"end":23127.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23127.89346875,"end":23136.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23137.326593750004,"end":23139.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23139.60471875,"end":23139.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23139.756593750004,"end":23140.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23139.80721875,"end":23139.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23141.224718750003,"end":23142.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23142.87846875,"end":23148.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23148.78471875,"end":23149.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23149.91534375,"end":23150.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23151.045968750004,"end":23154.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23154.825968750003,"end":23155.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23159.95596875,"end":23160.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23160.445343749998,"end":23164.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23165.03534375,"end":23168.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23169.13596875,"end":23172.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23172.949718750002,"end":23176.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23178.450968750003,"end":23179.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23181.741593749997,"end":23184.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23184.96471875,"end":23186.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23186.027843750002,"end":23189.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23188.289093749998,"end":23191.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23191.03971875,"end":23195.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23196.13596875,"end":23199.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23200.523468749998,"end":23202.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23203.10534375,"end":23205.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23206.58159375,"end":23209.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23210.125343749998,"end":23214.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23214.59721875,"end":23221.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23222.08971875,"end":23225.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23225.97096875,"end":23229.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23229.97034375,"end":23234.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23234.50971875,"end":23236.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23236.703468749998,"end":23240.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23240.787218750003,"end":23249.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23250.287843750004,"end":23252.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23252.24534375,"end":23255.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23255.62034375,"end":23256.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23257.459718750004,"end":23260.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23261.020343750002,"end":23267.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23267.97284375,"end":23269.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23269.812218749998,"end":23273.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23274.435968750004,"end":23276.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23277.051593750002,"end":23278.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23279.36346875,"end":23281.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23281.54034375,"end":23282.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23282.856593750003,"end":23284.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23285.43846875,"end":23286.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23287.14284375,"end":23288.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23289.117218749998,"end":23291.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23291.969093749998,"end":23297.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23297.318468750003,"end":23302.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23303.140343749998,"end":23306.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23306.32971875,"end":23311.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":23307.426593750002,"end":23308.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23311.560968750004,"end":23311.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23311.59471875,"end":23311.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23311.61159375,"end":23311.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23311.797218749998,"end":23311.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23311.864718750003,"end":23312.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23313.484718749998,"end":23317.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23317.29846875,"end":23333.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23333.616593750005,"end":23335.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23335.810343750003,"end":23338.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23338.49346875,"end":23339.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23340.012218750002,"end":23343.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23343.201593750004,"end":23344.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23345.02409375,"end":23352.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23352.921593749998,"end":23353.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23354.13659375,"end":23355.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23355.16596875,"end":23357.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23358.051593750002,"end":23359.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23359.78971875,"end":23361.021593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23362.084718750004,"end":23363.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23363.94096875,"end":23365.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23365.780343750004,"end":23369.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23369.40846875,"end":23375.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23375.584718750004,"end":23376.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23376.614093750002,"end":23380.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23381.32221875,"end":23382.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23382.942218750002,"end":23386.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23386.890968749998,"end":23389.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23389.388468750003,"end":23398.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23398.872218750003,"end":23401.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23401.26846875,"end":23406.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23407.208468750003,"end":23410.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23410.802843750003,"end":23414.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23415.426593750002,"end":23417.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23417.670968750004,"end":23420.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23420.489093750002,"end":23421.349718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23421.872843750003,"end":23422.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23423.864093750002,"end":23424.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23424.57284375,"end":23425.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23426.935343750003,"end":23427.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23428.77471875,"end":23429.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23429.85471875,"end":23431.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23431.559093750002,"end":23431.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23432.132843749998,"end":23432.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23432.959718750004,"end":23433.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23433.95534375,"end":23435.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23436.68909375,"end":23437.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23437.85346875,"end":23444.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23444.670968750004,"end":23447.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23447.944718750005,"end":23449.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23450.442218750002,"end":23450.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23450.459093750003,"end":23450.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23450.475968750005,"end":23450.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23450.577218750004,"end":23451.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23450.62784375,"end":23450.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23451.184718750003,"end":23451.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23451.33659375,"end":23451.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23452.484093749998,"end":23453.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23459.26784375,"end":23464.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23465.57909375,"end":23467.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23470.86096875,"end":23471.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23472.68346875,"end":23473.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23474.286593750003,"end":23476.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23476.96971875,"end":23480.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23481.94784375,"end":23483.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23483.39909375,"end":23484.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23484.49596875,"end":23484.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23484.867218749998,"end":23486.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23486.335343750005,"end":23486.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23491.937843749998,"end":23496.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23497.371593750002,"end":23498.147843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23498.58659375,"end":23501.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23501.168468750002,"end":23522.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23524.810343750003,"end":23526.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23526.936593750004,"end":23528.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23528.809718750003,"end":23531.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23532.03284375,"end":23537.382218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23538.37784375,"end":23541.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23542.15784375,"end":23542.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23543.01846875,"end":23545.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23546.359718749998,"end":23549.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23550.07221875,"end":23550.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23551.067843750003,"end":23553.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23553.177218750003,"end":23553.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23553.801593750002,"end":23577.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23577.342218750004,"end":23628.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23628.726593749998,"end":23644.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23644.724093750003,"end":23667.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":23668.129718750002,"end":23678.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23678.811593750004,"end":23682.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23683.469093749998,"end":23685.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23685.59534375,"end":23693.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23693.18909375,"end":23694.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23694.79221875,"end":23698.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23698.639718750004,"end":23700.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23700.46221875,"end":23700.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23700.934718750003,"end":23703.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23703.97221875,"end":23708.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23708.89971875,"end":23728.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23728.66034375,"end":23752.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23752.87596875,"end":23754.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23755.42409375,"end":23758.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23758.934093750002,"end":23763.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23763.810968750004,"end":23765.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23765.498468750004,"end":23817.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23818.114718750003,"end":23818.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23818.72221875,"end":23826.889718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23827.44659375,"end":23835.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23835.850343750004,"end":23836.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":23836.08659375,"end":23837.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23837.35221875,"end":23838.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23838.719093749998,"end":23841.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23842.094093749998,"end":23842.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23842.178468750004,"end":23842.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23842.63409375,"end":23842.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23842.65096875,"end":23846.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23846.684093750002,"end":23848.725968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23849.249093750004,"end":23853.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23853.754718750002,"end":23856.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23856.960968749998,"end":23858.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23858.648468749998,"end":23864.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23864.318468750003,"end":23866.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23867.32221875,"end":23870.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23870.71409375,"end":23885.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23885.34471875,"end":23886.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23887.16721875,"end":23891.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23891.537843750004,"end":23891.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":23892.044093750003,"end":23895.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":23896.819718750005,"end":23898.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23900.582843750002,"end":23902.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23902.55721875,"end":23905.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23906.421593749998,"end":23907.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23908.46346875,"end":23910.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23911.264718750004,"end":23917.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23917.54221875,"end":23920.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23920.79909375,"end":23922.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23922.672218749998,"end":23925.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23925.64221875,"end":23927.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23927.46471875,"end":23935.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23935.699718750002,"end":23936.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23936.695343749998,"end":23938.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23938.82159375,"end":23945.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23946.381593750004,"end":23946.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23946.76971875,"end":23955.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23955.342218750004,"end":23968.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23969.23034375,"end":23974.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23974.37721875,"end":23977.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23978.359718749998,"end":23984.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23984.19846875,"end":23987.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23987.489093750002,"end":23989.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23989.733468750004,"end":23990.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23990.94846875,"end":23993.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23991.15096875,"end":23991.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":23994.053468750004,"end":24002.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":24003.351593749998,"end":24004.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24005.325968750003,"end":24006.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24006.35534375,"end":24006.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24006.405968749998,"end":24006.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24006.45659375,"end":24006.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24006.726593749998,"end":24006.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24010.084718750004,"end":24010.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24011.08034375,"end":24014.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24015.07971875,"end":24026.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24026.57159375,"end":24027.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24027.97221875,"end":24029.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24030.48659375,"end":24033.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24034.030343750004,"end":24038.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24038.468468749998,"end":24041.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24042.147218750004,"end":24056.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24057.030968749998,"end":24059.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24059.83221875,"end":24065.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24067.59471875,"end":24071.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24072.015968749998,"end":24073.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24073.31534375,"end":24075.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24075.62721875,"end":24076.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24076.89284375,"end":24079.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24080.217218750004,"end":24085.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24086.460968749998,"end":24087.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24089.02596875,"end":24090.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24092.957843750002,"end":24095.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24096.147218750004,"end":24100.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24101.46284375,"end":24107.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24107.976593749998,"end":24110.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24111.334718750004,"end":24112.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24113.83221875,"end":24117.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24118.35471875,"end":24118.725968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24119.19846875,"end":24121.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24121.91534375,"end":24122.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24122.03346875,"end":24124.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24124.02471875,"end":24124.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24124.86846875,"end":24124.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24125.61096875,"end":24139.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24139.465343750002,"end":24141.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24142.671593749998,"end":24143.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24143.616593750005,"end":24144.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24144.342218750004,"end":24144.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24145.506593750004,"end":24163.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24163.647218750004,"end":24168.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24167.91659375,"end":24168.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24168.42284375,"end":24171.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24170.684093750002,"end":24171.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24171.89909375,"end":24181.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":24172.47284375,"end":24174.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24181.60221875,"end":24187.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24187.289093749998,"end":24201.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24201.734093749998,"end":24203.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24203.67471875,"end":24205.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24205.412843750004,"end":24239.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24239.97284375,"end":24249.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24249.405968749998,"end":24253.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24254.28284375,"end":24256.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24257.168468750002,"end":24257.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24257.320343749998,"end":24261.741593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24259.699718750002,"end":24260.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24262.247843750003,"end":24268.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24269.014718750004,"end":24270.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24271.107218750003,"end":24279.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24279.679718749998,"end":24288.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24289.51784375,"end":24292.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24293.01096875,"end":24294.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24295.255343750003,"end":24296.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24296.60534375,"end":24305.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24305.937218749998,"end":24306.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24307.185968750004,"end":24309.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24309.902843750002,"end":24310.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24310.746593750002,"end":24330.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24312.670343750004,"end":24315.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24315.65721875,"end":24317.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24325.124093750004,"end":24325.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24329.460968749998,"end":24329.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24330.929093750005,"end":24332.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24333.240968750004,"end":24342.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24343.652843750002,"end":24351.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24352.57971875,"end":24355.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24356.29221875,"end":24360.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24361.590968750003,"end":24362.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24362.654093750003,"end":24364.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24364.94909375,"end":24369.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24370.53471875,"end":24381.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24382.515968749998,"end":24384.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24385.40159375,"end":24387.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24388.47284375,"end":24393.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24393.63659375,"end":24394.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24395.121593750002,"end":24396.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24397.21409375,"end":24400.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24401.247218750003,"end":24403.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24404.402843750002,"end":24413.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24413.414093749998,"end":24419.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24420.29909375,"end":24432.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24432.51659375,"end":24435.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24435.40221875,"end":24446.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24446.53971875,"end":24450.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24450.539093749998,"end":24452.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24452.969093749998,"end":24455.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24456.090968750003,"end":24457.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24458.301593750002,"end":24459.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24459.83721875,"end":24464.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24465.270968750003,"end":24467.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24467.312843749998,"end":24467.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24468.122843750003,"end":24472.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24473.084093750003,"end":24473.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24473.69159375,"end":24478.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24474.60284375,"end":24475.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24477.404093750003,"end":24481.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24482.567843750003,"end":24483.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24483.209093750003,"end":24487.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24488.44034375,"end":24493.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24494.04284375,"end":24520.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24510.293468750002,"end":24510.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24510.310343750003,"end":24511.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24520.80659375,"end":24521.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24521.66721875,"end":24522.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24523.05096875,"end":24523.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24523.827218750004,"end":24525.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24525.56534375,"end":24527.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24527.826593750004,"end":24528.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24528.855968750002,"end":24531.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24532.01159375,"end":24536.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24535.757843749998,"end":24539.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24539.740343750003,"end":24539.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":24539.757218750005,"end":24540.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24540.02721875,"end":24542.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24542.372843750003,"end":24553.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24554.01659375,"end":24557.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24557.91471875,"end":24575.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24576.240968750004,"end":24583.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24585.319718750005,"end":24586.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24587.125343749998,"end":24587.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24587.952218750004,"end":24592.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24592.609718749998,"end":24594.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24594.41534375,"end":24596.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24596.693468750003,"end":24615.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24615.239093750002,"end":24619.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24620.132843749998,"end":24622.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24622.225343750004,"end":24623.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24624.30096875,"end":24625.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24626.15721875,"end":24629.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":24626.29221875,"end":24626.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24629.11034375,"end":24629.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24630.19034375,"end":24638.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24639.302843750003,"end":24640.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24641.074718750002,"end":24643.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24644.061593750004,"end":24644.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24644.63534375,"end":24645.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24646.10346875,"end":24646.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24650.52471875,"end":24651.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24652.161593750003,"end":24652.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24653.241593750005,"end":24654.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24654.97971875,"end":24657.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24657.865343750003,"end":24658.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24659.38409375,"end":24661.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24662.33721875,"end":24669.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24670.13346875,"end":24671.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24671.078468749998,"end":24672.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24672.27659375,"end":24673.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24674.35221875,"end":24675.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24676.090343750002,"end":24676.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24677.96346875,"end":24684.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24678.030968749998,"end":24678.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24678.04784375,"end":24678.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24678.06471875,"end":24678.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24678.942218750002,"end":24679.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24685.692218750002,"end":24686.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24687.26159375,"end":24689.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24688.763468750003,"end":24695.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24696.71159375,"end":24697.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24699.07409375,"end":24700.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24701.554718749998,"end":24704.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24707.224718750003,"end":24708.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24710.04284375,"end":24710.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24710.700968750003,"end":24711.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24712.43909375,"end":24713.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24714.76784375,"end":24715.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24715.459718750004,"end":24716.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24716.624093750004,"end":24717.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24717.569093750004,"end":24717.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24717.687218749998,"end":24717.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24717.990968750004,"end":24719.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24719.661593750003,"end":24719.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24719.71221875,"end":24719.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24719.72909375,"end":24719.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24719.91471875,"end":24720.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24720.302843750003,"end":24720.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24720.437843749998,"end":24721.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24721.905968749998,"end":24723.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24723.18846875,"end":24723.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24725.061593750004,"end":24725.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24725.078468749998,"end":24726.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24727.20471875,"end":24739.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24739.23659375,"end":24741.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24744.18096875,"end":24744.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24745.37909375,"end":24746.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24746.695343749998,"end":24747.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24747.707843750002,"end":24749.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24750.036593750003,"end":24750.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24750.914093749998,"end":24753.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24754.154093750003,"end":24761.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24763.452218750004,"end":24765.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24766.422218749998,"end":24772.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24772.412843750004,"end":24777.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24778.521593750003,"end":24788.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24789.490343750003,"end":24792.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24792.882218750005,"end":24799.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24797.927843750003,"end":24798.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24799.68284375,"end":24800.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":24799.733468750004,"end":24800.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24801.55596875,"end":24806.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24806.51721875,"end":24807.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24808.10346875,"end":24808.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24808.778468750003,"end":24810.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24812.372843750003,"end":24814.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24814.094093749998,"end":24814.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24820.709093750003,"end":24821.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24822.379718750002,"end":24824.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24825.29909375,"end":24825.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24828.04971875,"end":24828.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24830.44596875,"end":24835.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24835.40721875,"end":24840.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24840.30096875,"end":24840.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24840.72284375,"end":24842.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24842.039093749998,"end":24842.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24842.224718750003,"end":24844.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24844.755968750003,"end":24852.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24850.358468750004,"end":24850.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24850.40909375,"end":24850.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24850.898468749998,"end":24853.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24853.092218750004,"end":24854.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24853.109093749998,"end":24855.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24855.539093749998,"end":24858.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24859.319093750004,"end":24859.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24859.80846875,"end":24862.069718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24862.356593750003,"end":24866.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24866.65971875,"end":24866.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24866.676593750002,"end":24866.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24867.199718750002,"end":24867.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24867.216593750003,"end":24867.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24867.975968750005,"end":24868.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24868.02659375,"end":24869.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24870.03471875,"end":24870.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24870.051593750002,"end":24871.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24873.122843750003,"end":24874.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24874.911593750003,"end":24882.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24875.991593750005,"end":24876.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24878.11784375,"end":24878.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24878.15159375,"end":24878.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24878.725343750004,"end":24878.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24879.366593750005,"end":24879.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24879.552218750003,"end":24880.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24880.24409375,"end":24880.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24881.00346875,"end":24881.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24881.020343750002,"end":24881.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24881.273468749998,"end":24881.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24882.944093750004,"end":24882.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24883.01159375,"end":24883.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24883.450343750003,"end":24884.429093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24883.53471875,"end":24883.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24887.93909375,"end":24888.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24889.74471875,"end":24892.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24892.343468749998,"end":24892.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24892.36034375,"end":24892.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24892.47846875,"end":24892.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24894.452843749998,"end":24895.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24895.617218749998,"end":24896.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24897.827843749998,"end":24899.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24899.56596875,"end":24899.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24901.101593749998,"end":24902.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24902.48534375,"end":24907.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24903.818468750003,"end":24904.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24908.054093750005,"end":24908.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":24908.20596875,"end":24908.256593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24908.93159375,"end":24909.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24911.294093750003,"end":24911.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24911.952218750004,"end":24918.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24914.19659375,"end":24915.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24916.93034375,"end":24918.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24918.34784375,"end":24918.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24918.41534375,"end":24918.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":24918.465968750003,"end":24918.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24918.51659375,"end":24918.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24920.65971875,"end":24923.646593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24923.207843750002,"end":24923.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24923.646593750003,"end":24924.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24924.186593750004,"end":24927.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":24927.08909375,"end":24927.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24929.06346875,"end":24934.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24935.695343749998,"end":24936.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24937.33221875,"end":24937.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":24938.429093750005,"end":24939.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24940.15034375,"end":24941.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24941.702843749998,"end":24949.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24950.57909375,"end":24955.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24956.29971875,"end":24971.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":24962.340968750003,"end":24962.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24972.22971875,"end":24979.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24980.194718750005,"end":24980.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24982.03409375,"end":24984.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24984.312218749998,"end":24988.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24988.817843750003,"end":25000.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24989.83034375,"end":24990.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":24990.15096875,"end":24990.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":24991.07909375,"end":24991.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24999.364718750003,"end":25010.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25003.499093750004,"end":25003.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25010.772218750004,"end":25011.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25010.83971875,"end":25016.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25015.092218750004,"end":25015.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25017.35346875,"end":25017.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25017.927218750003,"end":25023.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25023.310343750003,"end":25028.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25024.069718750005,"end":25025.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25027.765343749998,"end":25029.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25029.99284375,"end":25032.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25032.169718750003,"end":25038.514718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25039.037843750004,"end":25050.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25040.89409375,"end":25041.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25041.029093750003,"end":25041.366593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25050.225968750005,"end":25056.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25052.453468749998,"end":25052.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25055.794718750003,"end":25058.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25056.92534375,"end":25058.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25059.304718749998,"end":25059.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25059.32159375,"end":25064.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25059.33846875,"end":25059.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25064.130968750003,"end":25073.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25074.28971875,"end":25074.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25074.492218749998,"end":25077.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25078.052843750003,"end":25078.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25078.08659375,"end":25078.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25078.255343750003,"end":25080.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25078.272218750004,"end":25078.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25078.390343749998,"end":25078.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25079.70659375,"end":25079.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25079.959718750004,"end":25082.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25081.934093750002,"end":25086.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25085.91659375,"end":25086.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25086.87846875,"end":25096.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25086.96284375,"end":25088.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25092.936593750004,"end":25093.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25093.577843749998,"end":25093.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25093.84784375,"end":25094.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25094.33721875,"end":25094.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25096.90221875,"end":25096.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25096.952843749998,"end":25096.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25096.98659375,"end":25097.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25097.762843750003,"end":25099.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25097.779718750004,"end":25097.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25097.83034375,"end":25097.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25097.965343750002,"end":25098.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25098.03284375,"end":25098.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25098.04971875,"end":25098.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25098.06659375,"end":25098.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":25099.75409375,"end":25099.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25099.787843750004,"end":25099.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25099.95659375,"end":25099.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25099.973468750002,"end":25100.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25100.02409375,"end":25106.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25100.192843750003,"end":25104.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25106.08221875,"end":25106.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25106.942843750003,"end":25109.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25109.74409375,"end":25110.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25110.419093750003,"end":25111.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25111.11096875,"end":25114.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25114.38471875,"end":25115.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25115.12721875,"end":25120.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25120.20659375,"end":25124.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25120.84784375,"end":25121.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25123.88534375,"end":25125.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25124.84721875,"end":25127.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25128.32346875,"end":25130.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25130.027843750002,"end":25130.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25130.280968749998,"end":25130.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25130.804093750005,"end":25138.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":25137.216593750003,"end":25143.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25138.718468749998,"end":25139.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25140.152843750002,"end":25142.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25143.05534375,"end":25145.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":25144.03409375,"end":25145.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25145.73846875,"end":25145.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25148.47221875,"end":25149.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25149.07971875,"end":25152.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25152.65721875,"end":25152.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25152.69096875,"end":25158.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25158.59721875,"end":25164.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25165.195343749998,"end":25166.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25166.663468750005,"end":25167.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25168.114718750003,"end":25169.295968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25169.46471875,"end":25170.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25170.865343750003,"end":25176.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25180.19721875,"end":25180.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25181.02409375,"end":25181.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":25190.912843750004,"end":25191.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25191.14909375,"end":25191.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":25191.68909375,"end":25192.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25191.773468749998,"end":25191.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":25193.27534375,"end":25201.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25194.929093750005,"end":25195.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25261.29846875,"end":25268.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25268.757218750005,"end":25270.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25285.24409375,"end":25285.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25286.357843750004,"end":25288.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25288.39971875,"end":25289.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25290.20534375,"end":25292.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25292.51721875,"end":25295.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25296.263468750003,"end":25297.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25297.39409375,"end":25298.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25298.474093750003,"end":25303.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25304.04284375,"end":25308.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25309.71284375,"end":25312.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25312.12596875,"end":25371.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25369.93971875,"end":25371.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25371.72846875,"end":25384.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25372.16721875,"end":25372.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25372.184093750002,"end":25372.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25372.87596875,"end":25372.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25374.293468750002,"end":25374.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25374.46221875,"end":25374.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25374.546593749998,"end":25374.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25385.36346875,"end":25388.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25389.16034375,"end":25396.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25397.44596875,"end":25413.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25403.89221875,"end":25407.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25408.296593749998,"end":25408.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25408.53284375,"end":25408.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25412.700968750003,"end":25412.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25412.95409375,"end":25416.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25415.70471875,"end":25416.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25416.86909375,"end":25418.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25418.03346875,"end":25418.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25418.387843750003,"end":25419.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":25420.834718750004,"end":25420.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25420.86846875,"end":25422.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":25420.952843749998,"end":25421.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25421.037218750003,"end":25421.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":25421.357843750004,"end":25421.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25421.40846875,"end":25421.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25422.97784375,"end":25423.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25423.028468750003,"end":25423.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25423.31534375,"end":25423.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25423.382843749998,"end":25423.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25423.61909375,"end":25423.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25423.83846875,"end":25423.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25423.85534375,"end":25423.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25423.905968749998,"end":25423.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25423.973468750002,"end":25424.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25424.614718750003,"end":25429.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25424.66534375,"end":25425.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25428.765968749998,"end":25430.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25429.76159375,"end":25430.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25430.419718750003,"end":25430.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25430.58846875,"end":25430.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25431.381593750004,"end":25432.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25432.19159375,"end":25433.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25433.474093750003,"end":25434.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25434.38534375,"end":25435.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25435.482218750003,"end":25436.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25436.342843750004,"end":25437.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25437.96284375,"end":25441.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25442.029718750004,"end":25444.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25445.404718750004,"end":25457.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25457.47034375,"end":25457.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25457.58846875,"end":25458.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25457.77409375,"end":25462.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25461.60471875,"end":25466.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25462.094093749998,"end":25462.617218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25462.617218749998,"end":25462.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25462.63409375,"end":25463.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25464.152843750002,"end":25466.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25466.937218749998,"end":25467.359093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25467.79784375,"end":25468.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25469.06346875,"end":25470.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25470.194093750004,"end":25473.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25474.632218750005,"end":25477.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25477.93971875,"end":25485.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25486.36034375,"end":25493.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25493.380343750003,"end":25494.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25493.397218750004,"end":25493.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25494.004718750002,"end":25508.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25504.129718750002,"end":25504.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25504.146593750003,"end":25504.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25504.349093750003,"end":25505.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25505.04096875,"end":25505.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25505.310968750004,"end":25506.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25506.036593750003,"end":25506.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25506.053468750004,"end":25506.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25506.08721875,"end":25506.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25506.18846875,"end":25506.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25506.255968750003,"end":25506.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25506.374093750004,"end":25506.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25506.390968749998,"end":25512.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25509.209093750003,"end":25509.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25512.246593750002,"end":25513.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25513.022843750005,"end":25513.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25513.36034375,"end":25514.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25514.052218750003,"end":25514.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25514.052218750003,"end":25514.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25514.085968749998,"end":25515.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25519.553468750004,"end":25520.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25520.481593750003,"end":25523.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25524.818468750003,"end":25526.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25527.19784375,"end":25527.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25527.687218749998,"end":25527.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25527.70409375,"end":25527.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25527.92346875,"end":25528.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25529.10471875,"end":25530.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25529.577218750004,"end":25533.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25534.724093750003,"end":25548.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25549.13534375,"end":25558.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25558.669718750003,"end":25563.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25563.867218749998,"end":25565.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25565.28471875,"end":25565.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25566.364718750003,"end":25567.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25567.39409375,"end":25568.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25568.87909375,"end":25571.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25571.79846875,"end":25572.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25572.709718750004,"end":25578.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":25579.965968750003,"end":25580.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25584.33659375,"end":25601.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25595.45721875,"end":25595.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25595.96346875,"end":25596.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25602.27471875,"end":25603.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25603.692218750002,"end":25605.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25605.88596875,"end":25609.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25609.311593750004,"end":25622.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25609.64909375,"end":25611.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25622.474093750003,"end":25623.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25623.975968750005,"end":25626.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25627.215968750003,"end":25627.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25627.50284375,"end":25628.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25628.65034375,"end":25634.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25629.224093750003,"end":25630.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25630.96221875,"end":25631.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25634.624093750004,"end":25635.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25635.552218750003,"end":25638.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25638.03284375,"end":25638.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25638.35346875,"end":25638.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25638.37034375,"end":25638.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25638.387218750002,"end":25638.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25639.264718750004,"end":25639.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25639.281593749998,"end":25645.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25645.96409375,"end":25648.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25648.934093750002,"end":25649.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25650.16596875,"end":25651.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25654.94159375,"end":25655.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25657.11846875,"end":25658.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25659.64971875,"end":25662.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25662.029093750003,"end":25665.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25665.623468750004,"end":25666.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25667.68221875,"end":25676.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":25671.90096875,"end":25672.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25677.014093750004,"end":25679.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25679.57909375,"end":25700.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25699.54221875,"end":25699.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25700.57159375,"end":25706.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25701.820343749998,"end":25703.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25705.83659375,"end":25721.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25721.091593750003,"end":25721.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25722.171593749998,"end":25725.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25725.529718750004,"end":25726.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25726.94721875,"end":25736.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25737.19034375,"end":25737.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25737.81471875,"end":25739.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25739.755343750003,"end":25742.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25742.97846875,"end":25766.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25766.41784375,"end":25769.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25769.37096875,"end":25773.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25769.640968749998,"end":25769.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25771.24409375,"end":25775.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25776.340343750002,"end":25778.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25779.344093749998,"end":25781.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25782.803468750004,"end":25784.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25782.904718750004,"end":25784.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25784.794718750003,"end":25795.139093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":25784.86221875,"end":25785.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25785.115343750003,"end":25785.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25791.224093750003,"end":25799.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":25796.33721875,"end":25796.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25799.054093750005,"end":25802.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25799.475968750005,"end":25799.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25799.543468750002,"end":25800.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25800.809093750002,"end":25801.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25802.26034375,"end":25802.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25803.458468750003,"end":25810.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25806.15846875,"end":25807.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25808.70659375,"end":25826.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25810.512218750002,"end":25811.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25824.70409375,"end":25826.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25827.285968750002,"end":25834.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25835.80784375,"end":25837.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25837.49534375,"end":25839.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25839.40221875,"end":25862.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25863.11159375,"end":25877.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25877.67471875,"end":25895.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25896.591593750003,"end":25904.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25906.15971875,"end":25908.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25915.980968750002,"end":25917.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25917.85409375,"end":25921.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":25921.65096875,"end":25921.718468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25921.887218750002,"end":25958.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25959.11346875,"end":25965.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25966.80846875,"end":25968.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25968.69846875,"end":25972.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25973.76096875,"end":25989.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":25990.703468749998,"end":25999.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26000.32221875,"end":26005.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26006.88659375,"end":26021.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26021.989718750003,"end":26024.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26024.89221875,"end":26039.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26039.624093750004,"end":26070.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26071.19721875,"end":26083.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26084.309093750002,"end":26098.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26098.872218750003,"end":26108.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26108.997218750003,"end":26122.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26123.42534375,"end":26126.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26127.42471875,"end":26147.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26148.062843749998,"end":26149.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":26149.851593749998,"end":26154.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26155.859093749998,"end":26156.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26156.770343750002,"end":26163.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26163.72284375,"end":26164.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26166.10221875,"end":26172.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26172.717218750004,"end":26177.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26177.50971875,"end":26178.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26178.606593750003,"end":26182.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26183.567843750003,"end":26188.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26189.10284375,"end":26191.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26191.97159375,"end":26192.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26192.865968750004,"end":26192.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":26192.967218750004,"end":26192.984093749998}],"whisperx":[{"start":1765.68,"end":1778.383,"text":"好,請主併報告出席人數。報告全體會,出席委員8人,已足法定人數。現在開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀商事會議事務。"},{"start":1779.946,"end":1797.384,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議事錄時間113年11月28日星期四9時1分至11時46分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員陳廷輝委員等14人列席委員嚴寬衡委員等13人列席人公平會主委李美季相關人員"},{"start":1798.184,"end":1815.263,"text":"及足跡總署代表、主席與交集委員育齡、報告事項、宣讀商政會議事錄決定、確定、討論事項、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於公平交易委員會單位預算及附屬單位預算非營業部分關於公平交易委員會主管、反托拉斯基金。"},{"start":1816.224,"end":1839.244,"text":"公民會主委李美報告後委員陳亭飛等17人提出質詢,均由公民會李主委暨相關人員及其答覆。登記發言委員處不在場者外區域均已發言完畢,詢答結束。未及答覆部分,請相關單位於週內以書面答覆並複製本會決議與詢答結束,令定期繼續審查。散會宣讀完畢。好,在場沒有委員,我們依次錄正部處理。繼續進行討論事項,請宣讀。"},{"start":1842.389,"end":1863.593,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管：非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金今日處理宣讀完畢好"},{"start":1867.984,"end":1892.137,"text":"今天處理農業部的預算,農業部的主管的預算也含非營業基金。我們於11月18日,我們在第14會議已經巡查結束。我們今天要處理的依序進行審查。那主委在這邊宣布審查的程序如下。有關於公務預算的部分與附屬單位相關的預算科目。均佔照列。"},{"start":1893.405,"end":1913.598,"text":"待所屬基金審議確定之後再隨同調整稅務部分依款別以向為單位稅務部分依機關別以目為單位來依序討論關於基金的部分依據預算法第50條及相關規定我們按照業務計畫、業務收支"},{"start":1916.851,"end":1940.55,"text":"節繳公庫的淨額轉投資計畫、固定資產的建設改良擴充、國庫增撥基金額及補辦預算等逐項審查。有關於特別收入基金部分,我們照業務計畫基金來源用途及與所節繳公庫等及補辦預算等逐項審查。那關於信託基金部分,"},{"start":1941.831,"end":1956.987,"text":"照基金運用計畫總收入支出及預算等逐項審查。現在我們請一併宣讀今天我們審查的項目以及委員的提案。宣讀完畢之後我們再進行寫上。請宣讀。"},{"start":1958.778,"end":1962.961,"text":"114年度農業部及所屬稅務第二款罰款及賠償收入158項農業部250萬元、159項林業保育署及所屬2713萬5千元、160項農村水保署及所屬1945萬元、161項農事所及所屬40萬元、"},{"start":1977.748,"end":1980.489,"text":"162項林氏所35萬元163項水氏所24萬元164項敘氏所及所屬128,000元165項獸醫所無劣數166項農藥所無劣數167項生物多樣性研究所3萬元168項查改廠25,000元169項種苗改良繁殖廠3萬元"},{"start":2003.395,"end":2005.999,"text":"171項苗栗驅農改產無劣數172項台中驅農改產無劣數173項台南驅農改產無劣數"},{"start":2015.816,"end":2021.059,"text":"174項高雄區農改廠無劣數175項花蓮區農改廠1萬元176項台東區農改廠無劣數177項漁業屬及所屬2694萬7千元178項房間屬及所屬5328萬7千元179項農經屬100萬元180項農糧屬及所屬16萬元181項農水屬10萬元182項農科園區管理中心2萬元"},{"start":2045.253,"end":2050.316,"text":"第三款規費收入128項農業部3762萬6千元129項林業保育署及所屬2000萬元130項農村水保署及所屬540萬元131項農事所及所屬545萬元132項林事所8萬元133項水事所140萬元134項獸醫所3056萬4千元135項農藥所4909萬6千元"},{"start":2077.032,"end":2081.676,"text":"136項生物多樣性研究所84萬元137項茶百廠28000元138項種苗改良繁殖場156萬元139項桃園區農改廠20萬元140項苗栗區農改廠325000元"},{"start":2093.803,"end":2096.567,"text":"141項台中區農改廠20萬元、142項台南區農改廠20萬元、143項高雄區農改廠20萬元、144項花蓮區農改廠8萬元、145項台東區農改廠8萬元、146項漁業屬及所屬"},{"start":2112.299,"end":2139.771,"text":"兩千五百四十二萬五千元一百四十七項房間屬及所屬三億三千兩百五十八萬兩千元一百四十八項農監屬四萬一千元一百四十九項農糧屬及所屬六百四十四萬六千元一百五十項農水屬無劣數一百五十一項農科園區管理中心七百七十三萬五千元第四款財產收入一百七十一項農業部五百八十萬九千元"},{"start":2142.042,"end":2152.113,"text":"172項林業保育署及所屬兩億三千四百五十九萬九千元173項農村水保署及所屬三十八萬元174項農事所及所屬一百零八萬兩千元175項林事所"},{"start":2156.557,"end":2158.098,"text":"一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、"},{"start":2183.41,"end":2188.173,"text":"桃園區農改產28萬元、184項苗栗區農改產8萬元、185項台中區農改產16萬1千元、186項台南區農改產53萬2千元、187項高雄區農改產2萬元、188項花蓮區農改產9萬元、189項台東區農改產2萬元、190項漁業屬及所屬8583萬4千元、"},{"start":2209.088,"end":2234.599,"text":"一百九十一項房間屬及所屬一百四十九萬三千元一百九十二項農金屬八萬三千元一百九十三項農糧屬及所屬兩百四十萬八千元一百九十四項農水屬五列屬一百九十五項農科園區管理中心一千八百九十三萬元第五款營業營餘及事業收入第十項農業部四億九千九百六十八萬一千元第七款其他收入"},{"start":2235.452,"end":2236.473,"text":"169項農業部5489萬3千元。 170項林業保育署及所屬9331萬5千元。"},{"start":2245.882,"end":2249.083,"text":"171項農村水保署及所屬750萬元。172項農事所及所屬985萬1千元。173項林事所746萬元。174項水事所1318萬3千元。175項敘事所及所屬494萬4千元。176項獸醫所1426萬9千元。177項農藥所167萬元。"},{"start":2275.075,"end":2292.058,"text":"一百六十七萬五千元一百七十八項生物多樣性研究所一百一十一萬元一百七十九項查改廠六百四十八萬五千元一百八十項種苗改良繁殖廠六十萬兩千元一百八十一項桃園驅農改廠一百八十九萬四千元"},{"start":2292.571,"end":2296.073,"text":"182項苗栗區農改廠97萬3千元。183項台中區農改廠429萬5千元。184項台南區農改廠315萬6千元。185項高雄區農改廠261萬3千元。186項花蓮區農改廠56萬5千元。187項台東區農改廠119萬3千元。188項漁業屬及所屬1840萬6千元。"},{"start":2321.667,"end":2325.37,"text":"189項房間屬及所屬169,000元190項農金屬無劣數191項農糧屬及所屬8996,000元192項農稅屬30萬元193項農科園區管理中心無劣數稅出部分第16款第一項農業部11525,252萬元"},{"start":2346.55,"end":2354.655,"text":"第一目,農業科技研究發展15億8977萬5千元。第二目,一般行政6億6742萬1千元。第三目,農業管理20億9085萬8千元。第四目,農業發展375億6033萬9千元。第五目,一般建築及設備五列數。第六目,第一預備金6"},{"start":2370.064,"end":2373.147,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。"},{"start":2387.696,"end":2416.087,"text":"一百零一億八千七百一十七萬七千元第一幕林業事業研究八千一百九十萬五千元第二幕一般行政二十七億七千三百零三萬九千元第三幕林業管理一億六千六百零九萬四千元第四幕林業發展七十一億六千一百八十九萬九千元第五幕一般借主及設備三百二十四萬元第六幕第一預備金一百萬元第三項農村水保署及所屬"},{"start":2416.827,"end":2433.568,"text":"八十一億四千四百二十六萬兩千元第一幕隨圖保持試驗研究六百三十三萬元第二幕一般行政六億八千九百四十三萬兩千元第三幕隨圖保持發展七十四億四千八百三十萬元"},{"start":2434.505,"end":2444.554,"text":"第四目第一預備金20萬元。第四項農事所及所屬12億4476萬元。第一目農業試驗研究6億3627萬8千元。第二目一般行政5億7313萬4千元。第三目農業數位化發展1630萬元。第四目一般建築及設備1874萬8千元。"},{"start":2461.249,"end":2464.675,"text":"第五目第一預備金30萬元。第五項臨時所8億3千零18萬8千元。"},{"start":2468.462,"end":2493.416,"text":"第一目,林業科技試驗研究一億五千八百三十八萬六千元。第二目,一般行政三億六千四百七十四萬五千元。第三目,林業管理九千五百九十五萬七千元。第四目,林業發展兩億一千零九十萬元。第五目,第一預備金二十萬元。第六項,水事所七億八千九百四十七萬八千元。第一目,水產試驗研究"},{"start":2495.315,"end":2523.329,"text":"兩億九千五百七十八萬五千元。第二目一般行政四億兩千兩百九十六萬七千元。第三目農業試驗發展六千九百六十七萬六千元。第四目一般建築及設備八十五萬元。第五目第一預備金二十萬元。第七項敘事所及所屬八億兩千六百一十三萬元。第一目畜牧試驗研究三億一千九百七十一萬六千元。第二目一般行政"},{"start":2524.029,"end":2539.925,"text":"四億一千九百六十四萬四千元。第三目農業試驗發展八千五百六十萬元。第四目一般建築及設備九十七萬元。第五目第一預備金二十萬元。第八項受益所四億九千零二萬四千元。"},{"start":2540.566,"end":2545.953,"text":"第一目,動物衛生試驗研究,1億7,043萬1千元。第二目,一般行政,1億8,096萬7千元。第三目,農業試驗發展,1億3,852萬6千元。"},{"start":2555.694,"end":2562.18,"text":"第四目一般建築及設備物列數第五目第一預備金10萬元。第九項農藥所6億3182萬4千元。第一目農業藥物及植物保護試驗研究。"},{"start":2571.648,"end":2597.719,"text":"一億三千四百九十一萬兩千元第二目一般行政一億四千九百七十四萬元第三目農藥試驗及登記管理三億四千六百二十二萬兩千元第四目一般建築及設備八十五萬元第五目第一預備金十萬元第十項生物多樣性研究所兩億七千三百六十一萬三千元第一目生物多樣性研究六千七百六十萬四千元"},{"start":2598.419,"end":2619.05,"text":"第二目一般行政一億七千八百六十二萬九千元。第三目農業試驗發展兩千七百三十萬元。第四目第一預備金八萬元。第十一項茶台廠兩億六千四百三十三萬四千元。第一目茶及飲料作物研究改良七千四百二十四萬七千元。"},{"start":2619.77,"end":2640.854,"text":"第二目一般行政一億五千五百二十二萬一千元。第三目農業試驗發展三千三百八十五萬六千元。第四目一般建築及設備九十一萬元。第五目第一預備金十萬元。第十二項種苗改良繁殖場兩億兩千四百七十五萬兩千元。第一目種苗研究與改良。"},{"start":2642.213,"end":2655.042,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":2665.589,"end":2684.858,"text":"第二目一般行政一億四千四百九十八萬七千元。第三目農業試驗發展兩百七十七萬六千元。第四目一般建築及設備八十萬元。第五目第一預備金十萬元。第十四項苗栗區農改廠兩億兩千八百八十三萬兩千元。第一目農作物改良。"},{"start":2685.538,"end":2710.276,"text":"六千一百八十六萬一千元。第二目一般行政一億零二十一萬六千元。第三目農業試驗發展五百一十三萬七千元。第四目一般建築及設備六千一百五十一萬八千元。第五目第一預備金十萬元。第十五項臺中區農改廠兩億九千三百零二萬四千元。第一目農作物改良一億三千六百八十八萬兩千元。"},{"start":2710.956,"end":2726.829,"text":"第二目一般行政一億五千零四十九萬兩千元。第三目農業試驗發展五百五十五萬元。第四目第一預備金十萬元。第十六項臺南區農改廠兩億九千九百四十六萬五千元。第一目農作物改良。"},{"start":2727.689,"end":2744.206,"text":"一億三千零三十四萬七千元第二幕一般行政一億六千兩百六十七萬兩千元第三幕農業試驗發展六百二十六萬六千元第四幕一般建築及設備八萬元第五幕第一預備金十萬元第十七項高雄區農改廠"},{"start":2745.727,"end":2763.105,"text":"兩億五千七百一十二萬九千元。第一幕農作物改良一億一千九百五十二萬九千元。第二幕一般行政一億三千零八萬六千元。第三幕農業試驗發展六百五十六萬四千元。第四幕一般建築及設備八十五萬元。"},{"start":2764.161,"end":2775.507,"text":"第五目第一預備金10萬元。第十八項花蓮區農改廠2億5712萬1千元。第一目農作物改良1億1904萬3千元。第二目一般行政9809萬6千元。第三目農業試驗發展3975萬2千元。第四目一般建築及設備13萬元。"},{"start":2786.252,"end":2794.455,"text":"第五目第一預備金10萬元。第十九項臺東區農改廠1億8349萬元。第一目農作物改良7426萬7千元。第二目一般行政9159萬1千元。第三目農業試驗發展1753萬2千元。第四目一般建築及設備無劣數。第五目第一預備金10萬元。第20項漁業屬及所屬。"},{"start":2811.442,"end":2831.596,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":2831.696,"end":2845.686,"text":"第五目一般建築及設備85萬元。第六目第一預備金114萬元。第二十一項防檢屬及所屬26億5203萬5千元。第一目動植物防檢液技術研發2億5913萬5千元。第二目一般行政7億7575萬2千元。第三目動植物防檢液管理。"},{"start":2856.614,"end":2861.202,"text":"16億1033萬1千元第四目一般建築及設備531萬7千元第五目第一預備金150萬元"},{"start":2868.151,"end":2886.144,"text":"第二十二項農金屬六億五千四百九十八萬四千元第一幕農業金融研發三百零二萬三千元第二幕一般行政一億兩千零九十三萬五千元第三幕農業金融業務五億三千零八十二萬六千元第四幕第一預備金二十萬元"},{"start":2886.824,"end":2894.688,"text":"第23項農糧署及所屬52億5792萬1千元。第一幕農糧科技研發1億3258萬5千元。第二幕一般行政8億2943萬8千元。第三幕農糧管理42億9409萬8千元。第四幕一般建築及設備80萬元。第五幕第一預備金100萬元。第24項農水署99億1700萬9千元。"},{"start":2915.638,"end":2927.264,"text":"第一目農田水利科技50333,000元第二目一般行政160417,000元第三目農田水利管理231659,000元第四目農田水利發展551960,000元第五目非營業特種基金394880,000元"},{"start":2938.919,"end":2951.088,"text":"第6目第一預備金20萬元。第25項農科園區管理中心9億8152萬7千元。第1目農科園區科技983萬7千元。第2目一般行政9449萬2千元。第3目農科園區管理2億2662萬8千元。第4目農科園區發展6億5千萬元。第5目一般建築及設備47萬元。第6目第一預備金10萬元。"},{"start":2967.915,"end":2995.679,"text":"提案部分農業部依本部第一案媒體政策及業務宣導費檢列一千萬元委員張祺凱等提案第二案檢列一千萬元委員張家俊等提案第三案檢列百分之二十委員楊瓊英等提案第四案檢列五百萬元委員蕭一鳳等提案第五案凍結一億元委員曾振淺等提案第六案凍結十分之一委員蔡業宇等提案第七案凍結三百萬元委員邱志偉等提案"},{"start":2996.419,"end":3011.209,"text":"第8案,業務費向下一般事務費,凍結200萬元委員張祺凱等提案。第9案,農業科技研究發展,凍結1⅓委員林黛樺等提案。第10案,農業科技管理及產業化,減劣2億元,凍結5%委員楊瓊英等提案。第11案,凍結10%委員賴瑞龍等提案。第10案,農業科技管理及產業化向下業務費,減劣40萬元,凍結50%委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":3026.363,"end":3043.212,"text":"第13案,凍結一千萬元文陳昌明等提案。14、畜牧業及動物保護科技研發向下獎補助費凍結一百萬元文張家俊等提案。15、食品科技研發凍結五百萬元文張祺凱等提案。16、國際農業合作向下業務費凍結五百萬元文呂玉玲等提案。17、農業電子化"},{"start":3052.675,"end":3078.495,"text":"簡列一億一千四百一十四萬八千元凍結百分之五文、楊瓊英等提案、十八簡列五十萬元凍結一百萬元文、賴瑞龍等提案、十九農業電子化向下業務費、簡列四十萬元凍結百分之五十文、張家俊等提案、二十簡列一千萬元文、張家俊等提案、二十一推動農業智慧化向下業務費、簡列一千萬元文、張祺凱等提案、"},{"start":3079.079,"end":3098.515,"text":"二十二案、檢列一千萬元委員張祺凱等提案。二十三、檢列八萬元凍結百分之五十委員張家俊等提案。二十四、氣候變遷調適及淨零排放檢列百分之五委員謝一鳳等提案。二十五、凍結百分之十文蔡宇等提案。"},{"start":3099.062,"end":3109.335,"text":"二十六、業務費凍結30%委員蔡宇等提案。二十七、凍結30%委員張家俊等提案。二十八、一般行政向下業務費檢列2000萬元委員張祺凱等提案。二十九、"},{"start":3113.089,"end":3126.696,"text":"基本行政工作維持向下業務費向下教育訓練費減列20萬元委員張啟凱等提案。 30、業務費向下水電費減列238萬3千元委員張啟凱等提案。 31、凍結200萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。 32、業務費向下特別費減列117萬9千元委員張家俊等提案。 33、減列47萬7千元委員張啟凱等提案。"},{"start":3142.324,"end":3169.055,"text":"三十四、農業法規管理及溯源審議向下業務費檢列一百萬元文章棋凱等提案。三十五、檢列一百萬元文章棋凱等提案。三十六、檢列一百萬元文章棋凱等提案。三十七、凍結百分之五十文章家俊等提案。三十八、農業管理檢列一千萬元文陳超明等提案。三十九、凍結三分之一文林代化等提案。四十、凍結十分之一文蔡宇宇等提案。"},{"start":3169.836,"end":3198.788,"text":"四十一,凍結十分基文、徵認錢等提案。四十二,凍結兩百萬元委員邱志偉等提案。四十三,動物保護管理向下媒體政策及業務宣導費凍結兩百萬元委員徵認錢等提案。四十四,業務費向下國外旅費檢列三百萬元委員楊瓊英等提案。四十五,綜合規劃向下業務費檢列一千萬元委員張祺凱等提案。四十六,檢列八十萬元凍結百分之五十委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":3199.659,"end":3228.153,"text":"四十七、一般事務費檢列一百萬元委員張啟凱等提案。四十八、科技管理業務費向下委託辦理產銷履歷、驗證制度精進及優良農產品法規制度精進與產業輔導、凍結一百萬元委員李玉玲等提案。四十九、科技管理向下業務費檢列兩百五十萬元凍結百分之五十委員張家俊等提案。五十、畜牧管理凍結一千萬元委員邱志偉等提案。"},{"start":3228.632,"end":3239.916,"text":"五十一、畜牧廢棄物經濟管理及資源加值計劃凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案。五十二、畜牧管理向下業務費檢列1000萬元委員張祺凱等提案。五十三、檢列80萬元凍結50%委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":3246.414,"end":3270.069,"text":"五十四、凍結兩千萬元委員陳昌明等提案。五十五、凍結一千五百萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。五十六、凍結一千萬元委員張啟凱等提案。五十七、凍結八百萬元委員張家俊等提案。五十八、業務費向下一般事務費減列一百萬元委員張啟凱等提案。五十九、獎補助費減列一百萬元凍結百分之五委員陳廷飛等提案。"},{"start":3271.161,"end":3299.318,"text":"六十、對國內團體資捐助、減劣一千萬元委員張祺凱等提案。六十一、辦理國產乳品供應計劃、凍結10%委員陳廷飛等提案。六十二、輔導推廣、凍結二分之一委員張家俊等提案。六十三、輔導推廣向下業務費、減劣八十萬元、凍結50%委員張家俊等提案。六十四、凍結一千萬元委員李玉琳等提案。六十五、獎補助費、"},{"start":3300.6,"end":3312.105,"text":"向下對國內團體之捐助, 檢列100萬元吳仁章、齊凱等提案。 66、國際農業諮商與合作, 檢列20%吳仁楊、瓊英等提案。67、凍結3000萬元吳仁成、昌明等提案。 68、凍結100萬元吳仁賴瑞龍等提案。 69、業務費檢列80萬元凍結50%吳仁章、嘉峻等提案。 70、凍結500萬元吳仁玉玲等提案。 71、大陸地區旅費"},{"start":3327.91,"end":3335.196,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":3346.665,"end":3356.268,"text":"動物保護管理凍結10%委員林黛樺等提案。76凍結10%委員林黛樺等提案。77凍結5%委員林黛樺等提案。78業務費檢列600萬元凍結50%委員張家俊等提案。79凍結1000萬元委員李玉玲等提案。80凍結500萬元委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":3369.563,"end":3375.991,"text":"81委辦費凍結100萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。82獎補助費凍結200萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。83資源永續利用凍結10%委員張家俊等提案。84凍結10%委員楊求英等提案。85業務費凍結100萬元凍結50%委員張家俊等提案。"},{"start":3390.667,"end":3391.908,"text":"86.凍結500萬元委員張祺凱等提案。87."},{"start":3391.908,"end":3393.069,"text":"凍結500萬元委員陳昌明等提案。88."},{"start":3393.069,"end":3393.589,"text":"凍結200萬元委員張祺凱等提案。89."},{"start":3393.589,"end":3394.85,"text":"資訊管理與運用向下業務費凍結30%委員張家俊等提案。90."},{"start":3394.85,"end":3397.112,"text":"農業發展凍結十分之一委員蔡宇宇等提案。91."},{"start":3397.112,"end":3397.912,"text":"凍結十分之一委員蔡宇宇等提案。92."},{"start":3397.912,"end":3399.493,"text":"凍結十分之一委員蔡宇宇等提案。93."},{"start":3399.493,"end":3400.614,"text":"補助農業特別收入基金"},{"start":3420.369,"end":3432.274,"text":"動節1%委員陳亭飛等提案。94 擴展動物收容量能及場域優化計劃檢列100萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。95 動節500萬元委員邱志偉等提案。96 動節100萬元委員邱志偉等提案。97 全國航遙測影像產制及AI判試與應用計劃檢列20%委員楊瓊英等提案。"},{"start":3444.675,"end":3447.777,"text":"98.凍結100萬元文邱志偉等提案。99."},{"start":3447.777,"end":3451.898,"text":"打造永續共好地方創生計畫凍結5%文謝一鳳等提案。100."},{"start":3451.898,"end":3454.339,"text":"凍結200萬元文邱志偉等提案。101."},{"start":3454.339,"end":3455.82,"text":"凍結50萬元文陳廷輝等提案。102."},{"start":3455.82,"end":3457.441,"text":"凍結50萬元文賴六龍等提案。103."},{"start":3457.441,"end":3459.121,"text":"業務費凍結300萬元文張祺凱等提案。104."},{"start":3459.121,"end":3460.722,"text":"凍結200萬元文陳超明等提案。105."},{"start":3473.457,"end":3484.92,"text":"動捷150萬元為呂玉玲等提案、106社會保險業務動捷十分之一為蔡宇等提案、107動捷十分之一為蔡宇等提案、108農民保險業務動捷1000萬元為邱志偉等提案、109業務費動捷百分之一為陳廷飛等提案、"},{"start":3494.148,"end":3500.436,"text":"110、獎補助費、凍結一千萬元、文秋智委等提案。111、農民職業災害保險業務、凍結兩百萬元、文秋智委等提案。112、業務費、凍結一百五十萬元、委員女育齡等提案。"},{"start":3509.586,"end":3517.291,"text":"113、凍結100萬元委員張祺凱等提案。 114、凍結100萬元委員陳超明等提案。 115、農民福利業務凍結十分之一委員蔡宇等提案。 116、老年農民福利津貼業務向下業務費凍結500萬元委員陳超明等提案。 117、凍結300萬元委員張祺凱等提案。"},{"start":3534.477,"end":3542.019,"text":"118、農民退休儲金業務、凍結500萬元文、邱志偉等提案。 119、業務費凍結100萬元文、呂玉玲等提案。120案至169案為主決議請參閱。二、林業保育署及所屬。 170、規費收入、使用規費收入向下資料使用費增列300萬元文徵認前等提案。"},{"start":3558.444,"end":3563.249,"text":"171、林業試驗研究、凍結100萬元文賴瑞隆等提案。 172、林業管理、凍結150萬元文賴瑞隆等提案。 173、化解野生動物危害農業及氛圍物種與人衝突、凍結1000萬元委員張祺凱等提案。"},{"start":3576.772,"end":3584.994,"text":"174、凍結1000萬元委員陳超明等提案。 175、業務費上下為半份凍結200萬元委員鄭天才等提案。176、林業發展減劣5%委員謝一鳳等提案。177、減劣5%委員謝一鳳等提案。178、凍結10分之一委員蔡宜語等提案。179、凍結10分之一委員蔡宜語等提案。"},{"start":3602.898,"end":3619.447,"text":"180、強勢未來入侵種移除防治及復育計劃、凍結一千萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。 181、凍結10%委員張家俊等提案。 182、森林保護與林地管理、凍結10%委員蔡易宇等提案。 183、凍結2290萬元委員鄭天才等提案。 184、向海致敬海岸清潔維護計劃。"},{"start":3629.002,"end":3641.147,"text":"動結1500萬元委員鄭天才等提案、185林業發展向下後職森林資源、檢列500萬元委員陳廷飛等提案、186動結100萬元委員邱志偉等提案、187公司有林經營及林產發展、檢列2億元動結10%委員楊瓊英等提案、188動結400萬元委員鄭天才等提案、189動結150萬元委員"},{"start":3655.359,"end":3664.246,"text":"奈瑞隆等提案、190業務費向下預計投注於原住民族地區經費凍結100萬元委員鄭天才等提案、191國有林整體置身防災及林道維護凍結5億0、170萬元委員鄭天才等提案、192凍結10%委員蔡易餘等提案、"},{"start":3679.81,"end":3687.216,"text":"193、國有林大規模崩塌防災治理凍結6千萬元委員鄭天才等提案。 194、森林油氣場域發展與推動檢列3億元凍結10%委員楊瓊英等提案。 195、凍結10%委員蔡宇宇等提案。 196、大阿里山軸帶百年躍升建設凍結1千萬元。"},{"start":3704.298,"end":3710.128,"text":"委員張家俊等提案、197地與野生物保育管理、凍結200萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案、198業務費向下資訊服務費、"},{"start":3716.641,"end":3726.751,"text":"凍結10%文、邱志偉等提案。 199、火土生態保育綠色網絡建設計劃凍結200萬元委員賴樂龍等提案。200、業務費凍結3000萬元委員李玉玲等提案。201、業務費向下委辦費凍結10%文、張家俊等提案。202案至206案為主決議請參閱。3、農村水保屬及所屬。"},{"start":3741.11,"end":3763.614,"text":"207、水土保持發展、凍結十分之一委員蔡玉等提案。208、整體性治山防災、凍結五億一千五百萬元委員鄭天才等提案。209、凍結四千萬元委員李玉玲等提案。210、大規模崩塌及不安定土砂防撿災、撿獵三百萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。211、凍結一億元委員鄭天才等提案。"},{"start":3769.619,"end":3782.646,"text":"212、凍結兩千萬元文、榆林等提案。 213、重劃區外緊急農路設施改善、凍結一千萬元文、邱志偉等提案。 214、推動地方創生、凍結10%文、蔡宇等提案。 215至221案為主決議,其中215案改列為331之1案,請參閱。 504所、222案。"},{"start":3795.834,"end":3806.377,"text":"林業科技試驗研究淨零排放及提升森林碳匯效益研究凍結10%文釵魚等提案六、水勢所223案農業試驗與發展凍結1%文釵魚等提案七、蓄勢所及所屬"},{"start":3815.087,"end":3844.271,"text":"兩百二十四案為主決議,請參閱。九、農藥所兩百二十五案,農藥試驗及登記管理,檢列兩百萬元委員陳廷飛等提案。兩百二十六,凍結十分之一委員蔡玉等提案。兩百二十七,農藥及其他化學物質檢測分析,凍結三百萬元委員邱志偉等提案。十、生物多樣性研究所兩百二十八案,生物多樣性研究、野生物資源管理研究凍結百分之二十委員賴瑞龍等提案。"},{"start":3845.531,"end":3852.495,"text":"11、查改廠229案、農業試驗發展、總廠南遷之環評等先期規劃、凍結1150萬元文章膠菌等提案。18、花蓮區農改廠230案、農作物改良、向下農業推廣研究、凍結20%文賴銳容等提案。20、漁業暑期所屬。"},{"start":3870.607,"end":3892.914,"text":"231、漁業科技研究發展凍結十分之一文、菜育等提案。232、凍結五十萬元文、賴瑞隆等提案。233、提升養殖漁業生產與管理技術研究凍結十分之一文、菜育等提案。234、加強海洋漁業資源合理利用及管理、減劣百分之二十文、養雄鷹等提案。"},{"start":3895.179,"end":3900.424,"text":"235、水產加工及品質安全檢測凍結十分之一文、菜育等提案。 236、"},{"start":3902.982,"end":3910.304,"text":"氣候變遷調適策略、凍結20%文采宇等提案、237凍結10%文張家俊等提案、238凍結300萬元文邱志偉等提案、239凍結100萬元文陳廷輝等提案、240漁業管理凍結5%文蕭一鳳等提案、241凍結100萬元文賴瑞龍等提案、242"},{"start":3927.984,"end":3935.952,"text":"沿靜海漁業管理向下業務費凍結1000萬元文李玉玲等提案、243凍結500萬元文陳超明等提案、244凍結300萬元文張祺凱等提案、245漁業與人權行動計劃減劣20%文楊瓊英等提案、246業務費凍結10%文張家俊等提案、"},{"start":3950.533,"end":3970.105,"text":"兩百四十七養殖漁業管理,減劣百分之二十為楊瓊英等提案。兩百四十八漁業發展,凍結十分之一為蔡易宇等提案。兩百四十九凍結六十萬元為賴瑞龍等提案。兩百五十漁業永續經營基礎建設計劃,凍結百分之二十為蔡易宇等提案。"},{"start":3970.623,"end":3984.889,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":4001.643,"end":4013.47,"text":"262案,動植物防檢疫管理,凍結30%為零氮化等提案。263,凍結5%為蟹鳳等提案。264,動物防疫業務向下獎補助費,檢列400萬元為陳亭飛等提案。265,植物防疫業務向下業務費,凍結500萬元為呂玉玲等提案。266,凍結500萬元為陳昌明等提案。"},{"start":4028.78,"end":4036.146,"text":"267,凍結300萬元文章棋凱等提案。 268,獎補助費,凍結500萬元文秋志偉等提案。 269,植物檢疫業務,凍結300萬元文秋志偉等提案。 270,業務費,凍結300萬元文玉琳等提案。 271,企劃業務向下業務費,凍結200萬元文玉琳等提案。 272,大陸地區旅費。"},{"start":4053.34,"end":4059.625,"text":"檢驗281,000元委員張家俊等提案、273土宅衛生檢查業務凍結10%委員楊瓊玉等提案、274業務費凍結1,000萬元委員張家俊等提案、275凍結500萬元委員余玲等提案、276至284為主決議請參院。二十二、農金屬285"},{"start":4079.029,"end":4087.959,"text":"農業金融研發提升農業受益與穩定所得之政策研究、凍結100萬元委員呂玉玲等提案、286。農業金融業務、凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案、287。凍結50萬元委員賴瑞龍等提案、288。農業保險及資訊、凍結150萬元委員呂玉玲等提案、289。農業金融"},{"start":4103.233,"end":4113.14,"text":"機構管理、凍結300萬元委員張祺凱等提案、290、凍結300萬元委員陳超明等提案、291、業務費凍結200萬元委員呂玉玲等提案、292、凍結25萬元委員呂玉玲等提案、293案為主決議請參閱、23、農糧屬及所屬、294、農糧科技研發、農糧作物產銷技術研發、凍結50萬元委員賴瑞隆等提案、295、"},{"start":4130.362,"end":4141.347,"text":"作物、環境、科技、研發、向下業務費凍結30%委員參與等提案。 296、農糧管理減劣5%委員謝一鳳等提案。 297、企劃管理凍結1500萬元委員陳昌明等提案。 298、稻作產業管理向下業務費凍結300萬元委員李玉玲等提案。 299、雜糧特作管理凍結500萬元委員參與等提案。"},{"start":4157.782,"end":4177.114,"text":"三百建構高效智慧化農糧產品安全管理體系計畫凍結5%委員謝一鳳等提案。三百零一凍結3000萬元委員李玉玲等提案。三百零二凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案。三百零三分屬農糧管理凍結1000萬元委員張祺凱等提案。三百零四凍結800萬元委員陳昌明等提案。三百零五"},{"start":4181.607,"end":4190.895,"text":"受援農產品、驗證輔導及安全管理與行銷計畫、凍結200萬元文、邱志偉等提案、306業務費、凍結1000萬元文、呂玉玲等提案、307凍結10%文、張家俊等提案、308建構農產品、冷驗物流及品質確保示範體系計畫、檢列10%文、楊瓊雲等提案、309凍結500萬元文、邱志偉等提案、"},{"start":4205.549,"end":4221.89,"text":"三百一十至三百一十六為主決議請參院二十四農水署三百一十七農田水利科技農田水利科技研發向下業務費凍結五百萬元文章家俊等提案三百一十八一般行政"},{"start":4222.509,"end":4239.155,"text":"基本行政工作維持向下業務費向下特別費凍結15萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。319 農田水利跨域整合永續發展計畫凍結10%委員蔡易宇等提案。320凍結8400萬元委員鄭天才等提案。321凍結5%委員陳廷飛等提案。322凍結200萬元委員邱志偉等提案。323業務費凍結3000萬元委員呂玉玲等提案。324"},{"start":4252.383,"end":4276.377,"text":"設備及投資、公共建設及設施費、凍結五百萬元委員女育齡等提案、325、農地重劃區基礎建設升級計劃、凍結八千一百萬元委員鄭天才等提案、326、非營業特種基金、農田水利事業作業基金、校下國庫補充農田水利事業作業基金、凍結三億三千零一十九萬兩千元委員鄭天才等提案、327至"},{"start":4278.337,"end":4296.856,"text":"三百三十一案為主決議請參閱二十五農科園區管理中心三百三十二、三百三十三為主決議請參閱一百一十四年度農業部主管附屬單位預算非營業部分、農業作業基金"},{"start":4298.052,"end":4305.234,"text":"一、業務計劃請參閱。二、業務收支。業務總收入5億5千零43萬2千元。業務總支出6億6千6百零4萬9千元。本期短處1億1561萬7千元。三、截繳公庫金額5列數。四、轉投資計劃5列數。五、固定資產之建設改良擴充5千381萬4千元。"},{"start":4323.059,"end":4329.896,"text":"六、國庫增波基金額無劣數。七、補辦預算固定資產之建設改良擴充4374萬2千元。"},{"start":4334,"end":4341.367,"text":"農田水利事業作業基金一業務計劃請參閱二業務收支業務總收入108億2991萬5千元業務總支出128億6612萬元本期短處20億3620萬5千元三節繳供貨金額無劣數四轉投資計劃無劣數五固定資產建設改良擴充91億9364萬2千元"},{"start":4359.583,"end":4363.348,"text":"六、國庫增撥基金額73億6452萬6千元。七、補辦預算依固定資產值建設改良擴充7億1217萬9千元。二、資產值變賣1億2946萬8千元。"},{"start":4378.119,"end":4385.625,"text":"農業特別收入基金一、優計劃請參閱二、基金來源用途及餘處基金來源464億4509萬1千元基金用途611億6167萬6千元本期短處147億1658萬5千元三、節繳公庫劣數農民退休基金"},{"start":4402.486,"end":4428.977,"text":"一、基金運用計畫請參閱二、總收入7億2758萬9千元三、總支出255萬5千元四、本期剩餘7億2503萬4千元提案部分第一案業務收入、銷貨收入、農產品銷貨收入、種苗改良、繁殖作業基金、增利500萬元、文章加訓等提案二、業務成本與費用"},{"start":4430.902,"end":4446.053,"text":"業務費用、向下服務費、向下推展費、減業40萬元、維園徵證錢等提案、三、推展費、農業科技、園區作業基金、全數凍結、維園張家俊等提案、四、種苗改良、繁殖作業基金、向下業務成本與費用、銷貨成本、農產品銷貨成本、凍結100萬元、維園張家俊等提案、五、"},{"start":4450.128,"end":4464.761,"text":"續產改良作業基金向下業務成本與費用,動節5%維園歇鳳等提案,6動節3%陳亭飛等提案,7業務費用向下服務費用,動節100萬元維園女育齡等提案,8農業科技園區作業基金業務成本與費用向下出租資產成本,動節1500萬元維園女育齡等提案,9續產改良作業基金"},{"start":4475.638,"end":4494.194,"text":"無形資產向下電腦軟體全數凍結委員張家俊等提案。第10至22案為主決議請參閱。農田水利事業作業基金提案。第23案業務外收入向下其他業務外收入凍結10%委員蔡宇等提案。第24"},{"start":4495.509,"end":4505.535,"text":"服務費用、向下旅運費、檢列100萬元、凍結200萬元委員賴瑞榮等提案。 25、服務費用、向下推展費、檢列1600萬元委員徵政前等提案。 26、一般建築及設備計劃、檢列3000萬元委員陳廷飛等提案。 27至35案為主決議請參閱。農業特別收入基金第36案推展費、檢列1億1000萬元委員徵政前等提案。"},{"start":4524.595,"end":4549.323,"text":"一、農業發展基金三十七案提升農業經營及發展計畫、良政業務計畫上銷服務費凍結一億元文成超明等提案三十八、凍結一億元文章齊凱等提案三十九、凍結兩千萬元文章齊凱等提案四十、穩定肥料及相關資材供需計畫凍結百分之五文秋瑩等提案四十一、凍結一千萬元文秋智瑋等提案"},{"start":4550.183,"end":4556.667,"text":"〈產銷調節計畫〉〈減利500萬元文成停費等提案〉〈促進農地利用及農業競爭力計畫〉〈凍結1⅓文零代化等提案〉〈增進農民所得及福利計畫〉〈向下農業保險計畫〉〈凍結5%文菜育等提案〉"},{"start":4570.725,"end":4587.253,"text":"農業貸款利息差額補貼計劃,檢列200萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。二、林務發展及造林基金46案。森林遊樂及林業鐵路經營管理計劃,檢列1000萬元委員陳亭飛等提案。47、檢列100萬元凍結5%委員賴瑞榮等提案。48、凍結500萬元委員邱志偉等提案。49、服務費用凍結5%委員蔡宇等提案。"},{"start":4598.052,"end":4621.52,"text":"五十、構建固定資產無形資產非理財目的資產其投資及影射與設施工程支出向下構建固定資產凍結688萬元委員張家俊等提案。五十一、獎勵輔導造林計劃凍結三分之一委員林大化等提案。三、農業天然災害救助基金五十二、"},{"start":4622.36,"end":4635.375,"text":"農業天然災害救助計劃、檢列100萬元文成廷飛等提案。53、凍結500萬元文邱志偉等提案。54、漁業發展基金、漁業發展補助計劃、檢列30萬元文成廷飛等提案。55、凍結150萬元文成廷飛等提案。"},{"start":4637.897,"end":4655.787,"text":"委員呂玉玲等提案、五、農產品受進口損害救助基金、五十六、調整產業或防範措施計劃、養豬產業內性高效價值及競爭力優化計劃、檢列3000萬元委員陳廷飛等提案、五十七、凍結百分之五委員蔡宇等提案、"},{"start":4656.36,"end":4674.535,"text":"五十八,凍結5%文、蚯蚓等提案。五十九,凍結5%文、蟹鳳等提案。六十,凍結200萬元文、蚯蚓等提案。六十一,養牛產業全面升級轉型計劃,凍結5%文、蟹鳳等提案。六十二,凍結200萬元文、蚯蚓等提案。六十三,綠色環境給付計劃,凍結1%文、零蛋化等提案。六十四,凍結5%文、菜魚等提案。"},{"start":4683.479,"end":4705.688,"text":"六、農村再生基金、六十五、農村再生規劃及能力培育計劃、凍結三分之一文零代化等提案、六十六、凍結一百萬元文、邱志偉等提案、六十七、農村再生建設及發展計劃、凍結三分之一文零代化等提案、六十八、農村再生社區發展及環境改善、凍結百分之五文、蔡宇等提案、"},{"start":4707.32,"end":4710.741,"text":"69.智能防災設施型農業計劃,檢列兩千萬元為陳清飛等提案。 70."},{"start":4710.741,"end":4712.901,"text":"凍結兩百萬元為邱志偉等提案。 71."},{"start":4712.901,"end":4716.522,"text":"服務費用凍結百分之五為蕭一鳳等提案。 72至84案為主決議。請參閱。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":4731.823,"end":4747.748,"text":"好,我們這個先來確定議事錄齁。請問這場委員,上次議事錄有無錯誤?David,你喊一下。好,我們沒有錯誤,議事錄確定齁。"},{"start":4750.178,"end":4776.177,"text":"我們現在繼續進行農業部主管預算的審查那先從農業部及所屬公用預算來進行預算協商好現在開始各位我們手上都有所有提案的資料的彙整我們就按照這個主項來來審查來協商那先處理"},{"start":4778.837,"end":4795.544,"text":"部本部的部分稅數部分我們從第一案到第七案一起處理好我們有張家俊、張啟凱、楊瓊英、謝英鳳、曾振淺、蔡宇宜以及本席的提案這個部分是不是先請農業部做一個說明"},{"start":4813.716,"end":4822.261,"text":"主席、各位委員第一案到第七案的部分最主要是針對農業部的這些媒體政策的一個業務宣導的費用"},{"start":4823.542,"end":4844.882,"text":"那我要跟委員報告其實我們的業務宣導都會用在我們該用的地方那特別是在去年度從去年度開始我們針對淨林永續的部分跟針對動物保護的部分還有自然保育的部分我們的更多的加強他們的相關的一個宣導所以這些宣導包括委員有關心的就是說這些宣導都"},{"start":4845.803,"end":4871.934,"text":"有到特定的媒體去那在這邊也跟委員報告我們的這些宣導會大概有應該有8家的媒體在運作而不是說只有特定的媒體那他是讓我們的政策讓民眾充分的了解然後特別是有一些相關的急需讓農民知道的部分都是用這樣的費用那也請委員能夠支持免於簡略所以是8家媒體是電子還是平面"},{"start":4873.097,"end":4876.398,"text":"報告主席,我們總共有東森、華氏、三立、民視、年代、中廣、凱洛"},{"start":4901.85,"end":4907.775,"text":"我是提案凍結300萬提出更多資料有預期的效益、效果"},{"start":4930.307,"end":4935.551,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":4950.498,"end":4973.035,"text":"今天議事人員辛苦了練了50分鐘我看朝野都有很多的意見那我們現在在談的是農業部媒體政策跟業務的這個先導費用事實上1450這個名詞就從農業部開始的那這次為什麼一開始我提說至少要3減1000億因為大家看一下今年度113年這個費用這個預算是"},{"start":4976.112,"end":5003.99,"text":"是一千七百四十八萬四千元結果竟然明年一下子暴增到兩千八百零一萬兩千元增加幅度你看多了一千多萬增加了一千多萬那像民眾對於農業部的是希望說農業部從部長開始所有的農業部的觀念是為農業農民來服務做好事情最重要擦脂抹粉不見得要那麼多"},{"start":5004.73,"end":5026.193,"text":"特別是不要一下子增加這麼多錢那如果真的就業務面農業部這段時間引起最大爭議的就是真的要好好做這個政策的這個宣導或者是業務的這個說明有兩個嘛一個是超市進口雞蛋的這個爭議這個弊案一個就是公糧收購那這兩個案子到目前"},{"start":5027.369,"end":5036.092,"text":"沒有看到很清楚的很清楚的把真相還有這個責任的這個宣傳政策的這個檢討還有整個宣傳把它做好"},{"start":5037.539,"end":5064.592,"text":"所以我建議就是說先老講三個一千億還是三個一千萬算是客氣的啦我看草野很多都提了有人一下凍結要凍結的錢都比我還多連民進黨也都提了嘛所以我建議我們是不是就是先減類一千萬謝謝來金淳英委員好謝謝本席是針對第三案第三案對那也就是剛剛紅委員說了我要跟部長"},{"start":5065.692,"end":5082.425,"text":"分享的就是說像我們現金救助那個選團的部分像現金救助就是說你這個區塊它有如果損害10%那認定這樣子這一個問題但是我們是依依公告"},{"start":5083.306,"end":5097.135,"text":"今天如果公告下去,今天還要算10天來,給北省去申請。但是我們的農民啊,他有的都在產的來,就一直在做。像我們這次的馬鈴薯,我具體今天應該還在給一個時間,因為它實際上是有狀況。"},{"start":5101.978,"end":5117.685,"text":"那他們在產業來對甚至我們的農民我們也一直講齁我們說你只要有狀況你比較快你拍一個照有的說為什麼基金就沒有啊我們的農民有八到十歲他沒有他連手機都沒有所以他就是顧這堆土地他認為我要花時間"},{"start":5119.226,"end":5122.367,"text":"公告後10天,我覺得我們既然我們的良益就是要讓農民去申請,"},{"start":5142.475,"end":5167.955,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農業特別收入基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退"},{"start":5169.396,"end":5193.393,"text":"我們公所啊、有農業課啊,這一些跟農民都息息相關,你都知道。不管三小班還是一大輩子,你都知道啊。你為什麼不透過這個體系去告訴他們呢?而且他們每一天都在見面啊。那你10天裡頭,公告開始的10天,你10天還包括什麼?你還包括6日。你10天一定會多到6日耶。"},{"start":5194.093,"end":5197.656,"text":"阿我的白痴說我第11天去沒有,委員我真的很可憐的,我都帶款,阿本來我就順勢,因為像我們現在的馬鈴薯阿,那委隊都會告去,都亂去阿,不是滾亂去,就是白起來,笑到臉去。"},{"start":5209.246,"end":5210.767,"text":"第2個充分建立你公告的10天這個10天裡面還包括6日"},{"start":5238.676,"end":5258.229,"text":"還包括6日啊,所以這個公告時間是不是應該可以延長?那我一定就要10天欸,對不對?這兩點我希望要得到你們的支持,請說一下好不好?那你同意回答啦,好,同意回答,同意回答。好像要講掉就要回答。對,對,對,言之有理啦,我本席不會贊同喔。"},{"start":5262.328,"end":5276.58,"text":"市長、各位委員、部長。我想我的看法是,其實現在的幫花農產品的行銷很重要。就是說我們有好的產品,怎麼樣讓更多人能夠行銷出去。那這幾年其實農業部做了很多努力,不管是國內的行銷或國際的行銷,我認為這個都很重要。"},{"start":5279.642,"end":5299.93,"text":"不斷的透過宣傳行銷讓更多人來享用好的農產品才能夠提升更好的價格同時間也能夠讓農民有更好的收益所以我個人其實是認為這樣的經費其實是可以支持就是運用的項目的部分應該這個多支持在讓更多農產品被更多人知道"},{"start":5300.29,"end":5320.62,"text":"同時有一些訊息的正確的釐清也很重要因為有時候如果一些訊息錯誤的時候有可能會導致一些農漁產品的價格的崩跌甚至有可能造成農民重大的損失那我認為這個時候其實是透過各項的通路去澄清說明我認為也很重要所以加上現在網路的時代訊息非常的快"},{"start":5322.441,"end":5347.211,"text":"這個有時候呈現的稍微慢一點點有可能農民就中錯了所以我是覺得這一項的預算應該要審慎思考那我會建議因為過去這樣的一個經費通常都會在草野協商還會再做一次的處理那我會建議主席是不是我們就乾脆整個保留到草野上去再來做一次處理要不然你現在處理過一次草野協商還要再處理一次那讓這個保留下來之後讓後面的先來進行我認為可能會是比較快的方法"},{"start":5348.251,"end":5352.594,"text":"這個言之有理,值得參考。下一位,沈迪菲。謝謝主席。我想這個媒體政策跟業務宣導,這是絕對是有必要的。因為你沒有宣導,你沒有辦法把我們的農產品行銷出去。大家也不知道你這個地方,你重點發展的農產品是什麼。"},{"start":5375.308,"end":5403.46,"text":"然後到底我在哪一個季節我可以去行銷可以去做所以我覺得這個是有必要的那委員所擔心質疑的就是說是不是有到達它的基本效果比如說今天我也常常在講說今天我們台灣台南的芒果非常有名那你要國際芒果節你在台南自己本地去行銷國際芒果節它有效果嗎這有一個大問號"},{"start":5405.083,"end":5430.94,"text":"你國際上往外讓全世界看到說哇我們台南就是在這個暑假的時候有芒果而且都是有這麼好的一個這個品種也好還有它的整個它的甜度等等都是很好可以送禮的然後也是好吃的水果當季水果可是你在台南大家都知道所以我也認為說"},{"start":5432.628,"end":5433.008,"text":"對於委員許問請農業部綜合回答。"},{"start":5460.825,"end":5487.675,"text":"我想簡單的回答就是剛才張委員所提到的時候我們預算增加了1000多萬那應該這麼講就是我們每一年在編預算的時候有一個預算然後最後一個法定預算就是透過立法院刪除了如果說立法院刪除了以後是的確增加1700多萬但是我們每年編的話都是跟去年的編列預算的同一個時間的階段來比我們大概增加了300多萬而已這第一個說明那第二個說明就是基金的部分我想"},{"start":5488.155,"end":5507.751,"text":"檢察單位已經在查了,我就不再多說明。未來該怎麼處理,我們一定會怎麼處理。如果說有任何的不法的,我們一定會處理。但是如果沒有不法,我們也是要還同那個清白。第三個部分,有關洋委員講的,我非常謝謝。第一個,天數的部分,我們已經從日曆天變成工作天了。就是禮拜六、禮拜天扣掉了。"},{"start":5508.251,"end":5523.838,"text":"第二個部分我們在新的辦法裡面已經必要的時候可以延長所以有一個比較彈性的機制那我也已經告訴我們同仁我們每一年的年底會把新的天然災害救助辦法重新公告包括它的天然災害的救助金額"},{"start":5524.258,"end":5547.568,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5547.768,"end":5561.818,"text":"我們現在非常重度國外的通路的部分所以有一些宣傳其實我們也是去打國外的通路的部分那像這樣的部分我想我們未來會更努力把這個宣傳做到位好 下個正日前正日前之後楊詠英之後我們就處理"},{"start":5563.692,"end":5569.537,"text":"本席提出第五案,針對明年將近兩億元的沒宣費部分,本席質詢也特別提到,我們在過去110年到112年當中,前十大廠商有六間年年重複,"},{"start":5584.591,"end":5589.415,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分"},{"start":5605.046,"end":5617.383,"text":"農業部跟所屬機關110年到112年的廣宣採用限制性招標的決算數, 占比年年降低。年年降低降到多少?從95.3%降到91.1%。這叫逐年降低。"},{"start":5622.95,"end":5645.707,"text":"農業部 我不知道為什麼農業部他要用這麼高九成以上全部用限制性招標說實話同樣我們這個委員會裡面經濟部就不是這個狀態經濟部限制性招標才一成多而已農業部叫九成多那我們要求提出說明的時候這邊也沒有一個更詳細的一個說明所以本席這邊的時候要求凍結一億人然後讓他們就是來"},{"start":5647.328,"end":5659.993,"text":"對於未來的那個沒宣費的限制金照標金額限制金照不能超過總預算的10%然後就是等那個農業部跟本委員體育專案報告之後我們再同意他動之謝謝以上"},{"start":5664.915,"end":5678.1,"text":"謝謝主委剛剛提出說在信心救助的部分工作天、日曆天這個機制但是我還是要有這個機制因為每一年的天然災害的救助的額度"},{"start":5678.74,"end":5684.381,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":5699.565,"end":5709.027,"text":"因為現在軟化問題,我們的目的就是說你那個區域如果有超過10%,我們都超40、50%的啦,但是它陸陸續續出來,日頭拍肉,它的血液黏著,胃臟軟了,日頭拍肉,它的菌軟了,日頭拍肉,它胃臟黑了。"},{"start":5719.85,"end":5749.053,"text":"所以你這個時間如果說只有加兩天我認為是不足的因為是老天爺跟我們開玩笑我們應該是把心是要做什麼目標就是農民你真正有受害我協助你而且他要有所本所以我建議你這個時間如果只有加六日兩天根本幫助我們不了什麼根本不可能所以我還是建議就是說因為軟化的問題你現金救助"},{"start":5749.733,"end":5762.498,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及�"},{"start":5778.484,"end":5785.288,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休"},{"start":5796.354,"end":5797.255,"text":"好不好?"},{"start":5797.255,"end":5799.056,"text":"是不是時間怎麼樣?"},{"start":5799.056,"end":5805.6,"text":"我們把這事情理清楚嘛。 神鋼的部分是不是一定要延長?"},{"start":5805.6,"end":5809.683,"text":"因為它是12、3天前公布的。 原廠同不同意?"},{"start":5813.785,"end":5835.839,"text":"這應該要延長啦,必要時啊。過去齁,過去在法規上面沒有延長,必要時延長,所以我們在法規已經放下去了,所以說可以延長啦。必要時延長啦。對,所以可以延長我們來處理好不好。好不好,我們神崗那個馬力署就有半個人在講,要延長。希望有一個機制你們去討論,因為我們現在看到軟化問題很嚴肅。養委員,我請問一下,是軟化還是軟化?"},{"start":5843.023,"end":5864.548,"text":"是暖化、是暖化。溫暖就暖啊。你說什麼拍著拍著我也說暖化。是暖化、是暖化。暖起來啦。燒啦。喔,是這樣喔。是暖化啦。你國用幫的跟我們台中幫的比較不一樣,他故意要製造氣氛。沒有啦,我是說這個是暖化。那這個拜託通知我們,香港要讓他們可以申請。是暖化齁。幾乎都四五十趴都不去啊,很可憐。"},{"start":5870.709,"end":5892.574,"text":"另外那個鄭委員所提到的就是限制性招標我想第一個澄清限制性招標不是說找個廠家來議價就結束了其實限制性招標有限制性招標的一個規範它還是要有多家符合相關的採購法有多家來投標那最主要的我們會講限制性招標的原因就是它必須要有專案服務的能力我們避免說公開招標就是"},{"start":5893.234,"end":5893.274,"text":"好。那個..."},{"start":5922.305,"end":5946.636,"text":"報告各位委員,這個每年討論到這個大家都老爺滾滾,大家都有很多的這個垂詢,也很多的很好的建議,但是每年處理的方式都是各部會到草野協商的時候,各部會相關的媒體跟醫護宣導費都會做一個統算,都會做一個統算,所以我估計這項保留,"},{"start":5949.817,"end":5951.659,"text":"一名的召委我覺得我們經濟委員會大家一直實質在討論"},{"start":5971.377,"end":5989.841,"text":"我們我認為不應當說我們這麼努力在討論而且各委員都提出意見我們不做處理然後保留送統三我不贊成這樣子那這樣子我們就不用去就不用去討論啊對不對所以我還是建議我的第三項這個簡略20%請大家支持"},{"start":5993.502,"end":5998.644,"text":"因為有不同意見,所以才保留,不是為了捅3。你要讓我們講,我反對捅3,不是講幾次。我捅3是,以後還會捅3。但我保留的原因是說,大家沒有共識,有些人要凍結。還沒啊,你還沒問人家,人家有3、2、10%有凍結。有啦,都已經發言了。有凍結。可是你要處理啊。我當然在處理嘛,大家都已經第7位發言了。你發言3次,來,賴克榮。"},{"start":6023.175,"end":6041.91,"text":"我先講一下啦好不好我先講一下我是要強調啦齁就是說像農產品我認為農業產品的行銷其實很重要啦比如像高雄齁我跟志偉的選區裡面海洋無保就很強齁我由於秋刀魚那像今年的秋刀魚跟魷魚的量就不錯去年就不好"},{"start":6042.31,"end":6067.548,"text":"那今年量不錯 那量不錯的時候我們就應該加強國內國外的行銷讓它可以賣得更出去量多有時候反而價格會跌但是我今年量多價格也不錯我們應該努力的行銷出去包括像這個虱目魚、石斑魚在邱志維委員的選區這個行銷很重要你看像石斑魚進到日本去很不容易啊我們應該努力在行銷出去包括連這個虱目魚現在很多還得到了歐洲的一些"},{"start":6068.848,"end":6090.402,"text":"獎牌就得到很多三星的獎所以我覺得我們不斷的行銷出去我們有機會讓這些漁民有更好的一些收益與產品如意包括烏魚在秋圍那邊也有烏魚籽你看現在日本那麼喜歡要想辦法行銷出去包括烏魚我最近發現很多大賣場的通路也開始在賣烏魚的一葉乾我覺得非常好那我覺得應該要不斷的行銷讓全世界品嚐到台灣這麼優質的一些魚種"},{"start":6093.804,"end":6111.213,"text":"農產品來說好了你看像香蕉、像芭樂、像棗子甚至於這個鳳梨甚至於芒果甚至於玉荷包我認為這個其實都相當有國內外的競爭力那這個一定要加強行銷力道他才能夠得到更好的價格"},{"start":6111.833,"end":6111.973,"text":"除此之外﹗"},{"start":6145.678,"end":6158.254,"text":"市長只有七位委員嘛對不對大家都看得到那個上面檢列或者凍結那個金額嘛我是建議說不要馬上就想到說要到送到那個草野協商那邊去那今天我們今天留在這邊就辛苦了啦"},{"start":6158.775,"end":6182.117,"text":"那老實講只有7個嘛,當然我知道如果要求要表決大概等於要清點人數的辦法,要不要先試著,先試著看看,先試著看看有沒有大家可以接受的案子,先說我提減淚1000嘛對不對,那熊英說600.5啊,我們就考一個,考一個到一個。你還記得嘛齁,前幾天在預算稍微協商,幫我們委員會通過的版本又重新再提對不對,"},{"start":6183.151,"end":6190.775,"text":"把你通過的版本貴檔又重新再提檢列。所以本來就要有委員會討論,你還要說,這本來就必須討論的過程,要有共識。所以說,委員會去經過調研、協商,討出來結論,預算的結論,在草擬市場又被翻盤。"},{"start":6205.336,"end":6224.251,"text":"你懂我的意思嗎?對,我剛剛跟你請到的那些...所以你現在說...你如果說...不是啦,我倒覺得這兩個沒有衝突啦。今天會有衝突。我們這邊...今天會就不用開了嘛。我的意思沒有,我們先發揮我們立委的功能,我們在經濟委員會我們先試著看到底要是減淚或者凍結多少。第一個齁,因為...因為本來...第43屆...我們第5會沒有表決的啦。"},{"start":6228.695,"end":6237.241,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":6244.531,"end":6266.732,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6266.832,"end":6286.426,"text":"我已經處理滿了,保留不是要送月會,保留是說這個其他的案子先處理完之後,以後再過頭來看。 知事主席,知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主席啦。 知事主"},{"start":6291.069,"end":6292.83,"text":"第一次喔 莊委你這個表現對執政黨太好了"},{"start":6312.736,"end":6330.209,"text":"委員會是獨立的每一個委員都有單獨表示的意見是是是你別人說你照你所講20分鐘不能解決就送去保留我看起來下面都全部保留阿如果是英明的召會你在裡面擇其中讓大家能信服阿"},{"start":6334.205,"end":6335.726,"text":"我這樣講勒,他也沒有經過你同意就講了。"},{"start":6353.898,"end":6356.639,"text":"經濟委員會充分討論主席臺本來就針對於所有的委員所提供寶貴的意見"},{"start":6375.126,"end":6397.953,"text":"因為一到七不管藍綠白好不容易大家都有提案不管是東山怎麼樣的情況所以主席台應該是要處理一到七的這個情況而不是說你到院會再協商的時候一樣再提案所以我們這裡不用處理我不同意如此以上建言好現在有簡列有解列有凍結"},{"start":6400.97,"end":6407.939,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分："},{"start":6418.615,"end":6420.957,"text":"第8項業務費、一般事務費張勤來委員提案"},{"start":6448.899,"end":6473.955,"text":"好 所以我是主張在農業部向下業務費的一般事務費他是7680萬我要求至少要先凍結200萬原因是剛剛主席在講說言之有理的賴瑞榮講的很重要沒錯賴瑞榮你剛才說信息澄清非常重要賴瑞榮你剛才說信息澄清非常重要那為什麼要提這個至少要凍結200萬"},{"start":6475.714,"end":6496.272,"text":"我在上次的質詢特別提啊我們立法院的議員會已經通過說公糧收購每公斤要調高五塊錢啊可是很多農民發現說農業部不只沒有執行他們還製作了圖卡去宣傳然後把公糧收購存在的價值跟提升農民收入這個實質的意義啊把它污名化"},{"start":6497.27,"end":6520.179,"text":"所以包括上次我在總質詢我都明確要求部長說你有沒有引力107年造成水稻產量大增價格下跌的元兇事實上是你們農業部推了一個成績中推了一個106年開始試辦107年前面實施的對立地環境給付計畫的稻作直接給付跟保價收購雙軌制這導致農民沒有選擇去"},{"start":6524.221,"end":6537.361,"text":"繳這個公糧收購改為直接去領直接的這個給付金。所以我再呼籲一下就剛剛耐瑞榮代委員講的信息的更正很重要那都質詢了農民現在在抗議啊說你們不質詢這個公糧收購每公斤調高五塊錢還製造這個"},{"start":6539.524,"end":6557.262,"text":"錯誤的這個信息,到現在我沒看到你們有更正啊。不然你至少要把那個圖卡的每一個時間點每一年,你不要跳躍,一定要跳了3、4年。那第二個,也沒有把陳其中做的到座直接給付跟價格的這個保駕收購。我說你要做更正,要跟我說明,到現在沒有,我當然要求要凍結,堅持到底。"},{"start":6560.85,"end":6588.004,"text":"農業部我跟委員報告我們所提供的所有的圖畫所有的數據都是有依據的這第一點第二點委員一直講到就是說這個107年是因為稻作集富所造成的一個問題我們也查證過了這個不是稻作集富所造成的那一年是一個豐產年第二個稻作直接集富的時候那個面積其實已經在27萬了所以您剛才講的那個訊息基本上也是一個"},{"start":6589.225,"end":6611.816,"text":"解讀上的一個不一樣的角度的解讀的一個訊息我不不能說錯但是他是不一樣的解讀的訊息所以換句話說我們最後在公糧的政策已經在黨團常委在協商的時候我們也承諾了我們院長也承諾我們一定會在12月底之前會把我們的公糧的一個收購的整個政策"},{"start":6612.376,"end":6617.558,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。 »: 三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。 »:"},{"start":6636.403,"end":6654.454,"text":"你至少把每一年你一看你的圖卡我上次已經跟你講了你從一下子跳了好幾年從100、101、102一下跳到105我說你至少把每一年把你做的這個做的這個到直接給付跟保過的這個價格你要把這個變數把它寫進去啊好 來 曾俊賢"},{"start":6656.695,"end":6684.828,"text":"謝謝主席那個因為剛剛我那個在1到7案的時候我本來還要在第二輪發言可是後來主席沒有直接往下走了我想問一下主席就是因為剛剛那個部長針對我剛剛提出的部分其實他沒有真的回答我的部分那我們保留的部分是要等到這個本部的一個預算之後才回來處理還是要等到基金的預算處理完之後才回來處理基金預算處理完之後才回來處理其他處理完之後暫保的部分再回課回來回謀再來看"},{"start":6688.33,"end":6700.519,"text":"報告主席你很殘忍你坐在椅子上部長要站了一個早上你是坐在椅子上還是站著我以為你站著就發言這個"},{"start":6710.59,"end":6718.655,"text":"主席,你要尊重陳昌明委員的發言。是我請同仁把椅子搬過去。是我請同仁把椅子搬過去給部長做的。"},{"start":6728.819,"end":6756.11,"text":"我發現陳昌明比我更仁慈。這也是很體貼的發言。我是建議這樣啦,因為看來就是張綺海委員的發言跟部長之間大概有一些的落差。那我比較傾向這樣子,這個部分是不是就請那個農業部把你們這一個整個包括你們圖卡的說明再一次提供給委員會這邊。好不好,我們再來看一下。那我是建議這個預算能夠給予支持啦,因為看來是兩邊是有一些"},{"start":6756.69,"end":6756.81,"text":"二、繼續審查"},{"start":6782.366,"end":6806.566,"text":"來,我們開始處理第16款第一項第一幕部分第一幕部分是關於農業科技研發那總共是從第9案到27案大家要一併說明,一併提出問題那由張祺凱、張家俊、賴樂榮、楊雄、李玉琳等委員提出提案"},{"start":6808.43,"end":6821.904,"text":"那是不是農委會先做統一的說明?那第一幕本身是有關於我們農業科技管理跟產業化的一個相關的一個計畫那各位都知道其實我們"},{"start":6823.297,"end":6838.309,"text":"整個的農業部的科技計畫的部分一定是在跟國科會那邊跟全部的部會去競爭去爭取的而不是說圓餅、框葉、經費就在這裡的所以我們每年很努力的跟國科會那邊去爭取經費我們的經費"},{"start":6840.491,"end":6865.191,"text":"議員的預算也會增加那整個科技計劃其實所有的科技計劃都是在支持我們的產業發展包括我們的品種開發我們的技術開發包括現在的永續的循環的部分跟一些淨零碳排的部分的方法學的部分都是在這個科技計劃裡面相關的經費去支應的所以我還是請就是委員能夠支持能夠明與凍結或者是檢列相關的計劃因為我們所有試驗場所相關的"},{"start":6868.914,"end":6881.858,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府"},{"start":6889.921,"end":6894.942,"text":"我相信科技跟農業結合在一起是現代化的趨勢但是我今天看到這個預算我覺得農業部不夠努力"},{"start":6919.484,"end":6946.866,"text":"國家對於農業部科技的發展都不重視我現在幾幾個例子給你聽經濟部它的公園院一年大概是200我記得今年是271億的預算我們農業部那麼大才去爭取到15億政府公照顧農民我看起來都沒有照顧尤其部長你也不夠母女可能以前喘息下來"},{"start":6948.516,"end":6964.731,"text":"那工研院他的研發是跟民間配偶民間可以找他所要研究的項目跟他配偶經過他審核的以後但是你們農業部有一個農業科技院我記得在香山好像都消失掉了我都看不到"},{"start":6965.572,"end":6993.286,"text":"到底有什麽貢獻出來還有你們的試驗所還有你們的農業改良廠裡面我一直說你們做的成果要給我們曉得你們都做不出來我已經講了一切以上了我不瞭解你們科技研究到底有來新的東西出來那我感受最深的在哪裡我們縣裡海邊的海沙一直吹出來吹到我們的路邊吹到港口"},{"start":6994.875,"end":7024.504,"text":"我最近看一個資料大陸把沙漠變綠洲而且好幾個地方在試驗成功他拔瓜他種的種他種的方式都在研究出來了啊咱家咱看到我們也自我改進我們不要一直強調我們都行連海邊的沙你們都治不了了人家是沙漠的流沙捏我是提醒你們所以你們沒有危險的觀念天天在裡面只有自來講我們多好"},{"start":7026.231,"end":7050.139,"text":"這是第一點第二點你們應該跟民間結合存箱是很高貴的東西但是存箱是如果長起來要很高那我一直想要說這種存箱跟你們農業部哪一個單位把它改得矮矮的它的葉子也能用它的精油也能用它可以多種的循環利用"},{"start":7051.209,"end":7074.705,"text":"我們在你也沒有這樣只有你們現在變成只有你們實驗所改良廠還有那個自我研發我現在要研究什麼啊那個採取的技術現在都很進步了所以你們在這整個裡面裡面你們要自創啊還有一個我最近聽到一個生技公司在講"},{"start":7075.987,"end":7087.904,"text":"他可以讓動物的存活力不管你養魚、養蝦、養牛、養豬他的資金出來可以讓動物的存活力最少在95%以上"},{"start":7090.346,"end":7114.173,"text":"我們來研究這方面,因為這個我還要找你們的事來試一下,講的是不是真的,但是我覺得可能成,因為已經有很多驗證出來。別隨便說,我保證你們的觀念要改變啦。剛剛大家又講到我們的水果,水果最重要,我們出來的季節,調整的季節。"},{"start":7116.86,"end":7127.869,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田"},{"start":7129.912,"end":7153.127,"text":"第三個你加工的技術一個東西出來有各種變化導致在各個地方好好研究把那個比例出來跟民間合作你們是關起門來自己在研究啊那我今天講的不是指責我是期望很深因為你農業科技可以帶動一個新的輪轉不一定是給那個什麼半導體的"},{"start":7154.844,"end":7164.574,"text":"我們雖然沒有那麼大但是我們在這個台灣裡面我們自己能照顧我們可以研發新的東西出來也可以把種苗外銷出去"},{"start":7166.438,"end":7194.289,"text":"所以有時候我們再跟你再談有的跟我們買的但是你的科技研發十有十一我憑良心不夠本來要三的但是你們的做法沒有帶動給我們說支持農業部的科技研發不然你起碼也拿五、六十萬民間要去什麼魚鴨還是要做什麼實驗大家能配合能去探討你們沒有這個動作所以每次講到農民我們又不敢再預算"},{"start":7195.189,"end":7212.497,"text":"但是我們要期望對你們很高所以關於科技研究啊拜託部長真的你們要改進你農業科技院好像都消失沒有人曉得一個我記得農業科技院在香山庚竹蘭那個地方"},{"start":7213.53,"end":7235.192,"text":"阿但是沒有人曉得那個是很重要的科技研究單位阿阿有什麼東西沒有真的要改啦好不好我是幾點看幾點看提出來跟你們講阿那現在這個已經生計了你養殖的大概跟生計有關係你們要朝此方向來"},{"start":7236.394,"end":7263.016,"text":"好不好,像人家在講的他可以殺細胞,壞的細胞吃進他的東西,壞的細胞就會被他消滅掉,他是在活化細胞的。你來走這個方向,不要跟我說我以前的東西你去研究叫突破。大家講水果,你到東南亞,看到現在水果多好吃。我是老實講話的,你到大陸去吃他的水果,"},{"start":7263.917,"end":7266.259,"text":"農業科技研發總共變15億多而已但是你有9項01到09的施政項目"},{"start":7290.498,"end":7317.856,"text":"零一到零九都很重要,因為我們都來自農業縣。我覺得15億,未來是不是跟國科會跟行政多增加預算,你15億要分配到九項的市政項目。零一跟零九我們都有委員來提案,但是提案不是為了要減劣,提案是為了讓你們做得更好。共同的提案是說,部長你有責任,針對農業科技研發的經費希望明年再提出來的時候能夠再"},{"start":7318.977,"end":7323.259,"text":"農業科技是一個很重要的關鍵,而且在現階段,它是勢必面臨很多我們的年輕一輩,很多的青農,他必須要去做轉型,甚至他有一些想法。"},{"start":7340.908,"end":7360.643,"text":"所以真的是預算非常的不足而且你要這麼大這麼多樣這麼多的大項更是不足所以我不認為說今天應該去檢列但是大家會去由委員去提出檢列或是動靜是因為對於這些的項目大家搞不清楚你們重點要放在哪裡"},{"start":7361.443,"end":7389.654,"text":"所以我們每次跟青龍在對談的時候青龍也覺得他們一直沒有辦法得到他們心裡面要的那個區塊所以表示這個平台並沒有建立得非常好預算我覺得是不足的可是是因為我們覺得好像大家的感受沒有到位也就是沒有把錢放在一個大家最需要的一個區塊當中所以我認為這個部分"},{"start":7391.516,"end":7392.217,"text":"議員提出的事項是關於農業部主管．"},{"start":7410.776,"end":7422.381,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7423.58,"end":7440.247,"text":"零一跟零九事業項目每一項都很重要我實際看過預算數但是你們要多跟委員會多做說明接下來是李毓林李毓林之後楊詠英楊詠英之後吳立法那個張祺凱張祺凱之後吳立法那之後再邱怡穎邱怡穎之後我們的處理"},{"start":7441.721,"end":7445.122,"text":"好主席我這個提案的話是針對這個項目我們在規劃擴大國際農業的這個合作的空間要來強化我們農產品的外銷但是我們看到所有的資料裡面在108年到112年我們農產品的出口"},{"start":7458.587,"end":7462.05,"text":"除此之外,在資料中看到整個貿易的逆差是從101億美金攀升到139億美金,農業部就應該要逐步深化雙邊實質上的農業合作,才能促進整個業者來拓展國外新興市場,才能提升整個"},{"start":7480.703,"end":7480.823,"text":"楊卓英議員"},{"start":7499.847,"end":7503.332,"text":"農業科技研發發展15億的經費,我們的委員也有棟也有山。其實大家真的看了這筆預算,想說會滴灰,還會痛。"},{"start":7515.968,"end":7531.1,"text":"為什麽呢?因為隨便經濟部我們其他的項項,國科會、工研院隨便一個都是兩三百億,也不是隨便啦,人家用心去經營。但是為什麽我們一直說臺灣以農立國,連一個口罩都可以口罩國家隊。那我們的農業以農立國,我們的人民時日住行日日離開不了我們的農。"},{"start":7541.448,"end":7556.757,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及�"},{"start":7557.737,"end":7561.66,"text":"到我們的議員去看,你剛才不要想到他會跑出來,什麼問題?一定是最後兩個禮拜才是要把那個甘蔗的田,他會出來,丟到在這,全世界只有我們,但是也是軟化問題。"},{"start":7575.503,"end":7577.866,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":7592.725,"end":7598.352,"text":"中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":7609.969,"end":7636.663,"text":"新唐雪所以這一次的寶島甘露幾乎少了將近五成這個是老天爺氣候給我們的一個挑戰這個就是我們農業部單位應該要協助農民的我們只顧不好啊你給我們補不到我們的百分之一啊農民很可憐啊我也不可能全部都溫室啊不可能啊我們只一個人現在在接三遍接四遍部長你內行的啊"},{"start":7639.784,"end":7648.147,"text":"對嗎那這些為什麼連口罩國家隊都可以成立我們農業部部長你是有架樹的人你也是內行的人你是有能力的人應該要成立什麼應該要成立我們的農業我們的研發國家隊"},{"start":7657.31,"end":7666.538,"text":"您應該去選在管制裡面需要我們合作的,你們去練出來。像我們的寶島甘露,像這樣最後兩個禮拜把那個小樹枝搓成三分之一,凍凍的。它也沒落下去,都掉在樹上。我們當天看的時候,農事所會說,改良廠會說,啊這就好啊。我說你把他踢過去看看,他一看就嚇到。"},{"start":7685.113,"end":7707.296,"text":"數字在這裡這一個小數字一加上去啊所以沒有用啦這個是以往我們沒有想到的所以我在這邊具體建立部長希望你待會回答一下我覺得這個這個項目因為我那個提案裡面主要是林建基委員他很關心所以我還是要給大家提一下所以我具體建立我們的農業部"},{"start":7709.177,"end":7736.779,"text":"這個是國家的寶貝非常重大的資產應該成立農業研發國家對這個你們應該要去做然後就22縣市裡頭的專業的這個農產的部分要怎麼樣去選項來協助我覺得這個才是可長可久這第一個至於預算的部分我覺得就凍結一千萬書面報告要成立啦要成立"},{"start":7737.46,"end":7740.946,"text":"好,那個言之有理,我也支持鄧重傑請問。那個張其凱,張其凱之後吳立法,吳立法之後邱瑩瑩我們就要處理。"},{"start":7748.455,"end":7773.811,"text":"農業科技研究發展非常重要所以一定要很精準那我一共提了三筆兩個簡略一個凍結簡略我引用的都是監察院在今年8月30號公布的調查報告他裡面提到他的調查意見9裡面提到他說農業部疏於跟衛福部共同嚴厲進口雞蛋洗險作業的明確規範"},{"start":7775.697,"end":7801.909,"text":"沒有積極去做輔導業者進口雞蛋洗選或有效日期的計算方式所以導致去年我們吃到一些壞蛋買到一些壞蛋所以我覺得既然要做科技的研發為什麼連這個都做不好甚至連那個產地都出了問題沒辦法釐清所以我提了兩筆各三檢各檢列一千萬另外我們這個國內的農產品出口雖然從一百年的"},{"start":7805.472,"end":7823.81,"text":"40.8億美金有微幅一直在增長可是我發現很嚴重問題就是我們農產品的加工品由20%逐年遞減到去年僅剩到現在不到5%就包括農民很辛辛苦苦的這個產品的加工品急速在下降它影響首級是每逢國內只要是農產品"},{"start":7825.431,"end":7843.72,"text":"產量過剩政府協助他外銷的時候都只剩下是初級的農產品的直接出口沒有進行加工價值的提升導致初級農產品的保存期限太短外銷成果也非常有限甚至造成農民被迫他要虧損甚至以休耕"},{"start":7845.2,"end":7872.331,"text":"重光電等方式來減少它的損失。圖顯的農業部對這個產銷這個調節有一個嚴重的失當所以我建議在這個地方先凍結500萬的這個預算。這個張委員你那個針對08推動農業智慧化你看預算書是同一筆項目是都是4487你那重複檢列你乾脆就是一次檢列2000萬就好你分兩個案你再給他一個解決的"},{"start":7872.711,"end":7872.731,"text":"吳立華議員"},{"start":7901.288,"end":7917.862,"text":"好謝謝主席那我這邊是針對這一幕有那個第11案跟26案那我要說明的是說因為在農業科技方面其實我們原住民有很多"},{"start":7918.743,"end":7945.44,"text":"高山的農業或者傳統的作物其實是非常的急需保種或者是富裕可是在這一方面其實更需要農業科技的一個輔助提供這種科學解決的方案所以我個人其實在這方面一直覺得說沒有看到這樣的一個相關的支持的計畫所以特別就是提出一個預算的凍結"},{"start":7947.721,"end":7967.808,"text":"再來就是第26案的部分因為它是提到氣候變遷我個人也是覺得說因為現在碳有價的時代來臨之後原鄉的自然碳會其實它攸關著很多很多族人的一個權益所以在這個部分我們怎麼樣"},{"start":7969.689,"end":7979.737,"text":"續協助他發展然後尤其是人才的培育我也特別希望說能夠看到這一方面的專案規劃所以呢也是做出凍結"},{"start":7985.401,"end":8005.931,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我是不是能夠請農業部也來協助說明一下就是我們在這個農業科技的向下編列了這麼多的預算有沒有一些比較大的項目是你們現在可以對外說比如說我們在農業種植上面的這一些大數據的收集"},{"start":8007.251,"end":8027.772,"text":"現在大家都在講這個Big Data那你的這些大數據的收集有沒有一個相關主責的單位可以協助農民比如我種植番茄的農民我遇到什麼樣的氣候遇到什麼樣的狀況他可能會對產量有造成多大的影響對於施肥對於農藥的這些作業會產生什麼樣的影響"},{"start":8029.534,"end":8047.742,"text":"各式各樣的這些作物的這些大數據的收集有沒有在你的這些農業科技發展的向下裡頭是不是也可以等一下請農業部來補充做說明那我們知道現在有很多的新創業者包括在高雄雅灣區有很多的青年"},{"start":8048.422,"end":8058.507,"text":"他們投入在農業科技的研發這一塊。他利用我剛剛講的這些大數據或者是利用AI的這些技術、程式設計協助農民減少噴藥、減少合適的施肥、合適的澆水"},{"start":8066.151,"end":8084.211,"text":"那這一些是不是他可以來跟農業部申請相關的計畫補助經費或者是一些協助的經費那因為我我看不清楚在整個大15億的大象下裡頭有沒有做到這一塊是不是能夠請農業部補充說明請農業部做完回答之後我們來處理"},{"start":8085.728,"end":8113.004,"text":"那謝謝委員的一個建議我想身為來自研究單位的部會首長我覺得我真的是該深自檢討就是第一個部分就是我們的預算那我要跟委員報告我們的預算科技預算不是說我從其他的我認為它重要就可以從其他的經費挪過來科技預算是由國安會整體控管的然後每一年它大概就是上限就是就是你可以提高10%上下"},{"start":8114.525,"end":8140.506,"text":"可是往往在審的過程裡面它又往下山了所以我們其實已經非常努力的把這些經費逐年往上升從108年我到農委會來43億到現在將近50億啦所以我們的經費是有成長但是那個成長幅度跟其他的部會可能相比還是弱這個部分我想我們還是會持續努力但是不是在我們能夠控制的範圍之內我們可能還要再跟國會協調看看"},{"start":8141.647,"end":8171.647,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8172.227,"end":8197.965,"text":"大數據並沒有完全的對外公開而是接受輔導的人才知道我覺得這個我們會檢討就是說我們有哪一些大數據可以變成一個普遍性讓農民做參考的這些這些類似我們的種植形勢力的部分我想這個我們會一定在明年度一定會去做到那實際上大數據已經都有在我們的所屬試驗單位然後包括"},{"start":8198.906,"end":8215.307,"text":"有些農民他已經有一些跟AI跟智慧農業感測元件結合的部分那我們會來鼓勵他變成我們的業界科專或業界參與的部分這個機制是有的但是我也覺得我們現在科技研究成果最大的問題是在宣導不夠讓讓"},{"start":8218.48,"end":8242.04,"text":"讓大家能夠知道我們有這樣的一個參與式的合作的方式這個部分我想我們未來會來努力這個明年我一定會去檢討做到那剛才楊委員所提到的離的部分就是農業的研究國家隊的部分我覺得我比較不喜歡用國家隊這樣的一個名詞但是我會針對未來不同的品項會有一個研究團隊"},{"start":8244.722,"end":8269.13,"text":"因為我在這幾年來...你那個名稱我同意你選一個不要只有研究什麼隊阿你剛剛什麼隊沒有我想我們有一些特定的專案的團隊品相團隊我們是專門的特定的品相的團隊名稱這個我們已經在做了這個我們已經在做了不是你現在在做就是沒人知道你要讓人民知道有敢你怎麼這麼故意這麼傻"},{"start":8270.61,"end":8297.955,"text":"對不對?你做的都在做都很好可是人家都不知道啊你去想一個名稱啦好不好?對不對?就是農業研發的這個什麼組織啦什麼什麼名稱啦對不對?名稱想一個讓人民知道喔政府有在給他找好這個我了解齁所以我對後續的這些我們研發成果的對外的擴散的宣導我一定會加強不然很少人知道齁"},{"start":8302.881,"end":8328.8,"text":"農業研發臺灣隊什麼隊啦 什麼隊都好 但是問題真的 你要有背景怎樣政府是你的擴心嘛 謝謝喔 謝謝各位委員的我還沒有回答 吳委員講的那個我們已經在做像原住民的保守那些東西我們其實已經很多東西針對原住民的部落的這些總員收集跟傳統知識的結合 這個我們已經在做了那後期我們會加強 那有關於"},{"start":8329.66,"end":8344.896,"text":"那個張琦和張委員所提到的雞蛋的問題那相關的標示跟落實其實在那個時間點並沒有發生任何因為雞蛋的標示過急那標示的過分我想也不適合在現在再說但是最後的結果"},{"start":8345.696,"end":8372.69,"text":"是不會有問題的都已經移送法辦去處理的那大部分都是符合相關的規定那後續我們會來加強這個國內雞蛋的標示的部分未來我們不希望說再度的從國外進口的那個雞蛋我想我們會來努力好謝謝農業部說明我想我與眾心常常講每年省到這一幕關於農業科技研發預算長期都有換寡的問題換寡用白話文講就是不夠啦"},{"start":8377.873,"end":8393.419,"text":"農業部特別部長,你應該有責任,把你向下01到09每一個計畫,你都要把它擴充。所以經費希望你能夠多爭取多一點,因為這是用在農業、用在農民。所以當然大家參觀討論之後,"},{"start":8395.2,"end":8400.305,"text":"農業部的預算我們很少簡列,因為這是用在農業跟農民,大家都有共識。剛剛楊水平委員跟陳昌明委員也認為說速度凍結讓"},{"start":8411.596,"end":8433.677,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8434.277,"end":8439.18,"text":"農業科技研究發展那個業務費,那兩筆2000,各檢列1000萬要堅持,所以要檢列2000萬。然後有另外那個食品科技研發那一塊,凍結500萬。"},{"start":8458.769,"end":8471.116,"text":"那個,你是,不是啦,你,你動,你減劣是08向下餒,你知道我意思嗎?欸,張委員,你看你的提案,你減劣是08向下,這個,這一幕總用01到09,你是減劣08,08你又減了兩次,4487萬你減了2000萬,這行,我們回去要怎麼去推動農業置業化?"},{"start":8482.542,"end":8488.785,"text":"農業資源化我回去被這些農民這個我怎麼去對這些網路農民交代這個農業資源化我剛剛用的是監察院的調查報告4487你提兩案就提你減了2000萬欸"},{"start":8497.609,"end":8503.114,"text":"沒錯啊,就剪這兩千萬啊。 這頭就是監察院的調查報告啊,沒有錯啊。 那是未來要做的慷慨嘛。 沒有,是以前發生過的,要糾正,要糾正。 謝謝主席喔,我想齊該委員他會提出也是希望把事情做得更好啦齁,那因為你推動沒有錢你真的推動不了啦齁,所以"},{"start":8523.613,"end":8539.131,"text":"是不是就是在我們這個凍結的部分剛剛主席已經有講了嘛就凍結件外那我們就有科目就是你要凍這個部分就是在他因為他有特別提出這個部分嘛就是說這一個"},{"start":8539.972,"end":8540.272,"text":"陳昭明,請問一下。"},{"start":8565.922,"end":8575.208,"text":"我今天我跟部長特別拜託你們農業部出了很多雜誌像風鈴我自己買我一次就買三本"},{"start":8576.608,"end":8599.082,"text":"還有民間小道還有我們苗栗改良廠他們改良的東西還有農業改良廠的東西我都把它收集起來那這個收集起來第一個我們到哪個地方看到就曉得你們有談過這個東西或到國外去把台灣這種建法起來這邊有這樣我們又來製造加工"},{"start":8602.381,"end":8610.724,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":8623.608,"end":8646.142,"text":"等一下還有一個主題在,我會教你,我會跟你們講怎麼做。台灣人很聰明啊,你要給他發揮機會,雖然我們市場小。我舉一個例子,像紐西蘭的仙子,當初我在處理這件事情,你們主張一個做法,把腫瘤減少。啊咱們沒想辦法說,"},{"start":8648.144,"end":8671.495,"text":"紐西蘭的先祖他能做到那個經驗下來銷到臺灣臺灣怎麼不研究一套機器把這些先祖做出來跟紐西蘭一樣紐西蘭的工業沒有文化法臺灣人很聰明機械各種方式都有那你怎麼不去改進這個怎麼把種林賣掉殺掉我感覺這樣你的農業怎麼夠"},{"start":8674.11,"end":8699.152,"text":"我們在最堅持的環境裏面如何去把安眠宮去保守有掌握在你手中大家都會先知這個你要從這個機制裏面去改進嘛我相信台灣的農業有辦法克服這樣結果你們普末倒置把種農、把農業賣掉、減少飼料沒搞我在困難裏面跟紐西蘭來拼起來"},{"start":8700.526,"end":8701.867,"text":"我們自己都很了解啊。我們因為補貼什麼補貼都來了。"},{"start":8723.297,"end":8726.8,"text":"主席,我是不是可以再請教一下您剛剛講的那個是第一...整個幕齁,第一幕,對,農業科技發展。一千萬。先凍結一千萬。對。齁,那"},{"start":8751.687,"end":8770.999,"text":"嗯,你要不要就是我們就也給張委員一個面子啦,因為他很堅持要刪的話,如果是4487萬刪了2000萬的話就幾乎是沒了啦。是不是你就用他的這個提案,其中一案我們就這樣子凍結1000萬。就我們這整個這一幕的凍結1000萬的理由是用他的提案。凍在哪裡?"},{"start":8776.963,"end":8804.74,"text":"你還是用這個向下阿?你動在這個向下?對啊!對啊!好!動在這個向下!好!如果大家有公事就動在這個向下!沒有啦!謝謝邱委員!邱委員!你講完之後我就處理了齁?沒有!沒有!沒有!你講完我就要處理了啦!對對對!我只是堅持要檢列兩千萬!好!好!好!既然這個張委員那麼堅持阿!我想為了農業、為了農民阿!本席必須要考慮這個動用表決阿!"},{"start":8807.865,"end":8813.062,"text":"在立法院我在這14年經濟委員會很少動用表決幾乎印象中沒有"},{"start":8814.544,"end":8842.417,"text":"為了農民、為了農業所以這場各位委員引出的討論大家都有共識要凍結一千萬因為這個農業範圍已經換寡了因為在減劣的話我想我們沒有辦法提振農業也對農民對不起所以如果張委員執意堅持要減劣兩千萬那本席、不席"},{"start":8843.863,"end":8852.03,"text":"對,你給我,沒關係沒關係,我留下記錄。啊?表姐沒關係,我留下記錄就好,來。對,好,表姐,你叫表姐。沒有表哥沒辦法過啊,他堅持啊。"},{"start":8858.228,"end":8867.941,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":9010.247,"end":9038.142,"text":"好請大家就座經過兩分半有效率的這個協商哈這個大家已經有一個方向看到一個明燈這個大家都為了農業都為了農民來支持這筆預算但是希望說農業部能夠做得更好所以針對第一幕農業科技研發經費"},{"start":9040.812,"end":9066.431,"text":"十五億八千九百七十七萬五千元我們凍結兩千萬凍結兩千萬提出專案報告凍結兩千萬提出專案報告因為我們到十二點還有凍保法的協商所以我們要到十二點就要先休息因為凍保法要協商所以邱怡英委員主持中午我們休息"},{"start":9068.86,"end":9097.198,"text":"稍後休息到這個 我要去補掛一下要休息到什麼時候可能應該到2點啦大概因為你協商不曉得多久我們大概也讓同仁上他動保法都有公事啊這樣齁 好啦這樣 這樣差不多頂薄了好不好頂薄了齁 好啦等一下等一下"},{"start":9099.312,"end":9128.174,"text":"好,報告委員會我們現在這個繼續處理第二幕第二幕是一般行政的業務費那總共第二幕是有幾個提案呢28到37有張祺凱、李玉琳、張家俊幾乎都是張祺凱的還有張家俊這個部分先請農業部先做個說明"},{"start":9129.881,"end":9158.809,"text":"那個 包括 包括 那個 招委跟委員齁 那這一幕本身齁基本上都是農業部本身的一些類似產品 油煙醬豬茶之類的包括人事的費用齁 包括相關的油料的水電的部分的一個 相關的一個基本維持那這邊特別提到的那個 有一些是簡略特別費 那特別費是因為牽扯到我個人那我特別 我會尊重委員會的一個決議以上"},{"start":9162.25,"end":9171.815,"text":"好 這個大部分是凍結比較多了還有簡略的來 各位針對第二幕的部分來 張其凱"},{"start":9173.703,"end":9199.049,"text":"那個水電費為什麼要減類就是因為增加太多了那這樣我了解各個黨團到了整個在朝野協商政黨協商的時候這次這個水電費也是一個重點那我是建議我們在這邊就先做成一個減類238萬3千元這個標準就是回到今年的不要增加那麼多因為政府要講要省水省電嘛這是一個那剛剛講另外一個就是特別費"},{"start":9200.674,"end":9229.334,"text":"對,次長們都不要擔心次長都沒砍到沒錯這個是真的是針對部長跟我們之間的溝通包括我一直在講這個超市雞蛋的真相跟責任的追究還有這個公糧收購所以我這個地方我非常堅持就是在這個特別費方面要減列47萬7千塊錢這個就是部長的特別費那另外另外那個一般行政裡面一開始有所謂減列200萬這個最主要還是包括這次超市雞蛋裡面連一個連一個下訂單都是透過LINE"},{"start":9230.655,"end":9258.476,"text":"行政體系真的出了很大的問題那另外兩筆有兩筆跟法跟這個農業的法規有關係的農業的法規有關係的就是監察院很明顯講到這個禮約情形確認書包括後來連這個超時公司沒有登記那很明顯就是整個法規的這個體系裡面農業部的法規體系出了狀況所以我提了兩筆在這個法規管理管理跟訴訟費用裡面簡略各100萬就兩筆謝謝"},{"start":9263.162,"end":9283.797,"text":"來 邱議員我還是想要跟這個張委員說明一下因為您第一次到立法院可能大家不是很清楚過去立法院在審查預算的狀況基本上我們不太會去刪水電費因為這個是隨著電價調整去核實編列"},{"start":9288.34,"end":9293.383,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":9307.79,"end":9325.206,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及"},{"start":9326.747,"end":9326.827,"text":"李玲"},{"start":9355.762,"end":9377.507,"text":"好,我接下來是要求農業部要節約用電作為民眾的表率因為你的電費增加了238萬3千元增加的幅度很高,三分之一所以我們應該在這個能源政策的轉型當中你們也要配合政府的政令這個案子我可以改成組決議,謝謝好,李議員委員算是一樣改組決議"},{"start":9379.141,"end":9401.058,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農業特別收入基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農"},{"start":9402.694,"end":9420.887,"text":"是的,我雖然是主席,但是主席也要對預算發表一些意見。這個,我們當年都在這裡,水電費、特別費,一般來說,都是同山,在草野市上各部會一起處理的。這不很快,我如果,我印象中沒記錯的話,"},{"start":9423.063,"end":9435.947,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":9437.681,"end":9440.242,"text":"真的自己經濟委員會不做一個決定嗎?"},{"start":9440.242,"end":9452.27,"text":"什麼事情都要推到草野協商去?但是作為決定你們黨團以後在草野協商把它翻掉啦!那兩個都是過程,你們民進黨也可以在...不是,你通過的預算,然後你以後在草野協商把它推翻掉不是很奇怪嗎?"},{"start":9459.346,"end":9459.866,"text":"主席抱歉抱歉"},{"start":9487.168,"end":9512.859,"text":"如果照這樣講,那今天經濟委員會就不要討論這個項目啦。那本來我以為我們公平,我們就表達意見,沒有我不是要跟你吵架,我們是站在人民的角度,我們表達意見。我提出了,提出了減內238萬嘛,那我們就一起討論,你也可以提出要減多少或者不刪嘛,這大家可以一起討論齁。那另外,剛剛邱委員很多指教啦,我是覺得超市這個到底有多大?"},{"start":9514.346,"end":9536.904,"text":"然後監察院提的這個糾正的這個報告調查意見到底你有沒有尊重這個每個立委人看法不一樣可是我們都肩負的廣大選民的這個托付立法院連調查權都被大法官拿走了現在除了預算審查權我們怕幫人民勘捲荷包包括超市出那麼大的問題吃到壞蛋或是工人收購問題我們不能表達意見嗎"},{"start":9539.687,"end":9547.732,"text":"不能表達意見嗎?我們到底在立法院立法院到底是站在哪裡?我已經讓你講三次了,我都還沒講齁,其他委員都還沒講,我已經讓你講三次了,那個陳天坤委員,陳天坤委員之後換邱志偉委員"},{"start":9558.001,"end":9586.675,"text":"你先講中文。我先講中文。他有沒有唸錯名字。謝謝朝偉。其實我想我們都希望給委員充分表達那今天為什麼會想要去刪這個水電費我想可能我們這個農業部可能沒有去跟委員說明清楚我覺得這個部分因為水電費真的是他必要的支出刪了之後"},{"start":9588.147,"end":9614.752,"text":"維不萊了問題是錢繳不出來還是要繳啊不是說刪了之後就不用繳如果刪了不用繳的話那我們可以大刪特刪啦齁因為水電費這就是固定的支出啦齁水多少電多少我們都不能欠大家都不能欠主來的水啦齁所以這個是基本上為什麼我們當時候大家不會去選擇刪水電費的最主要的原因齁這個都是既定支出就是時報時銷齁實際的支出啦齁"},{"start":9617.873,"end":9619.335,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分"},{"start":9633.952,"end":9645.956,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單"},{"start":9663.121,"end":9672.373,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算的基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":9676.445,"end":9677.165,"text":"這個先輪到我發言齁"},{"start":9700.68,"end":9715.797,"text":"我具體建議啦,水電費是這樣子,剛剛陳銘、呃,廷飛講得有道理啦,不能斷水斷電。但是,凍結一百萬,齁,你們提出節水節電的精進作為啦,好不好。部長,凍結一百萬啦,齁。"},{"start":9717.048,"end":9742.803,"text":"最起碼讓你們知道這個水電得來不易所以要怎麼遵截使用這個你們提出這個書面報告這個凍結就是關於水電費不凍結一百萬那業務費的部分啦業務費的部分張委員是提案的減去兩百萬是不是這樣子業務費讓你們能夠更精進作為因為410萬的確是不多啦欸 同學是不是這樣啦"},{"start":9745.7,"end":9750.524,"text":"你減50萬啦,減50萬啦,看農業部能不能執行,減50萬啦。我會說特資費沒人在減特資費,過去我們處理沒人在減特資費,所以他說減業務費,業務費裡面那個書院那個"},{"start":9766.017,"end":9791.568,"text":"法規管理及溯源生意及五十萬：?跟委員報告,跟趙委報告,就是有關於剛才檢列那個溯源費的部分,因為它最主要是出息費那些,那如果檢列的話希望能夠科目自行調整。科目自行調整。來處理。好不好,如果檢列50萬科目自行調整。至少檢列100萬。至少檢列100萬,我還是要強調一下,我覺得廷輝講得有道理啦。"},{"start":9792.372,"end":9802.583,"text":"立法院本來就是監督行政部門嘛。做不會本來就是要檢討。今天不要出現人海戰術只是來護衛的放水的也不好。沒有人放水沒有人海戰術啊。不要那個農業部做不好的就要檢討。剛剛講"},{"start":9807.688,"end":9824.478,"text":"我剛講水電費的這個問題不要推到統三區每個部會增加都不一樣你像農業今年司法院我不是也凍結了嗎?蛤?我剛剛不是凍結了嗎?沒有啊沒有什麼凍結我剛剛一直在擠索有意見啊水電費我要求要回到今年這個水準啊減劣238萬啊為什麼節水跟節電這不好政府不是在講要節電節水嗎?"},{"start":9829.343,"end":9832.287,"text":"農業部的業務費包括水電費老實說我覺得農業部是一個要解決事情的部會"},{"start":9846.483,"end":9870.104,"text":"水電用較多除了說是浪費刻意的浪費不然的話水電多我覺得也是有必要的因為我覺得有太多農業的問題是需要解決需要多開點會來解決問題我再舉一個例子吼最近這個南部吼尤其是我們雲家的吼這個部長部長部長可以可以聽一下嗎部長可以聽一下我這個問題吼含含那個"},{"start":9873.507,"end":9882.174,"text":"我們租縣的選區也有關係,就是因為300億的價格我從7月的時候我就在說價格已經很低了"},{"start":9883.476,"end":9903.702,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農"},{"start":9904.682,"end":9925.46,"text":"出現在我們主席的選區彌得,彌得還是三百億,所以他的介紹就救掉,所以每年我在反映這個問題的時候,永遠對於嘉義跟雲林的虱目魚類,阿到北雲林、茄拔跟茄拔在台南,這些三百億都沒有改革。"},{"start":9926.241,"end":9950.352,"text":"所以我還是覺得農業部應該要好好坐下來開一個會說說台灣的這個產銷調節因為我看到張委員的都是在講產銷調節啊我們上次在處理基金的時候還把產銷調節的基金要大幅度的凍結或刪除但是這個產銷調節就是很重要啊你們在思考產銷調節的時候又沒有思考到地域的因素"},{"start":9951.032,"end":9953.974,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":9970.973,"end":9991.007,"text":"呃,我們看到齁,漁業署在處理虱目魚的時候,都在處理過,你都冬季在處理。冬季處理勒,事實上解決了主席那,我那沒解決到。齁,我覺得這個問題存在,所以我還是覺得,像這水電費,我們不要去打算,也不要去打,齁,你要動,動的部分再另外講。"},{"start":9991.627,"end":10002.446,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":10152.19,"end":10153.652,"text":"議員法定人數不足"},{"start":10166.505,"end":10169.828,"text":"我瞭然於胸啊!我瞭然於胸!牢記在海!你剛才是說他有架勢還是有架勢啊?"},{"start":10186.929,"end":10187.229,"text":"二、繼續審查"},{"start":10195.543,"end":10205.429,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分"},{"start":10222.247,"end":10226.997,"text":"第三目是38案到89案這個是農業管理就是重頭戲部本目裡面"},{"start":10234.418,"end":10258.778,"text":"三十八到八十九這個整個第三幕農業管理的預算是二十億二十億九千零八十萬八千八十九三十八案到八十九案那所有委員都有提案我看了一下所有委員都有提案是不是先請這個農委會農業部廣泛說明之後再請委員來詢問"},{"start":10260.279,"end":10270.127,"text":"農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分農業管理部分"},{"start":10276.172,"end":10291.117,"text":"那另外在國際農業的合作剛才委員也強調農業國際的合作的部分也在這裡去處理然後相關的農業的統計調查也在這裡那相關動物保護然後還有相那個資訊管理的應用都在這個科目裡面"},{"start":10292.077,"end":10293.198,"text":"陳婷妃、陳婷妃、有那個人說這個陽俊英。"},{"start":10322.585,"end":10334.974,"text":"參議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10337.621,"end":10360.809,"text":"這個案子很多啦其實這個農業管理的部分其實它的範圍很廣那可是這範圍很廣每一個都很重要你像動物保護管理的部分那我們現在到底我們未來在整個所謂動物收容的部分現在其實浪浪問題很多"},{"start":10362.551,"end":10382.295,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10382.295,"end":10399.394,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10399.991,"end":10418.234,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10418.474,"end":10445.412,"text":"這也是我們後續要去關注的所以其實這都是我們在這一次很重要大家都著重在這個農業管理的部分你看每個委員都提那麼多所以我是認為這個要凍結是不是把每一個細項把它寫得更清楚書面報告之後使得動之從我們我所提的部分然後去做書面報告然後使得動之"},{"start":10450.108,"end":10473.764,"text":"這個部分農業管理其實確實相當的重要那它牽涉到了非常多不管是從業務甚至於科技甚至於虛募或者是推廣、宣傳行銷等等我認為都很重要那當然裡面特別我會關注的是在於對國際上的宣傳行銷這個部分那我認為其實我們應該更把我們的農產品外銷到"},{"start":10474.464,"end":10492.518,"text":"其他的周邊的一些國家甚至於新南向的一些國家甚至日本等等幾個國家那我的建議是我們就凍結100萬那也希望農委會持續的朝這個方向精進我知道沒有在做但是我希望能夠提出書面報告把你們精進作為再提出來以上建議"},{"start":10493.319,"end":10503.147,"text":"這個部分本席第44案也就是業務費跟國外旅遊的部分1520萬3千本席是減列300萬這是第一項第二個就是第66案農業管理的國際農業諮商與合作"},{"start":10523.363,"end":10533.721,"text":"本席是簡略20%那重點我要說明我待會要聽農業部的說法因為我們有幾次很可憐"},{"start":10535.637,"end":10552.966,"text":"國外的休息時間跟我們不一樣,我們的花的球種啊,我如果那個時間,尤其過年時間,我如果沒有進口進來,那個時候過了我今年就沒有啊,就沒有收入也不能種了,因為天候問題。那我們經常會在"},{"start":10556.568,"end":10572.922,"text":"我們經常會在那個過年農曆年過年最可憐因為大家一次休息8天9天我們的農民空宿無門所以我們還要在農曆年的時候趕快要去找我們的海關也好我們的國務局也好找外管"},{"start":10574.264,"end":10585.493,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算的基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":10587.261,"end":10607.756,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10607.836,"end":10624.027,"text":"要怎麼樣去加強,因為我們有進口的你們可以去盤點,有哪一些可以有進口,例如萊亞水,萊亞水以前也是叫韓國,日本調到這樣,結果我們自己啊,我們現在七成是我們自己,台灣的啊,最棒了啊。"},{"start":10625.087,"end":10642.116,"text":"當然國外也要進口一些但是至少我基礎是有的包括我們的這個香菇香菇的眷包我們現在新生農會合起來做也做得很好啊當然它的部分還是要有部分還是要進口所以針對於進口你們應該去盤點一下哪一些國家"},{"start":10643.377,"end":10652.905,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算的基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":10673.761,"end":10673.881,"text":"農業專技研發"},{"start":10693.101,"end":10715.481,"text":"最後那個字讓你部長去填去思考看看啦大家提供寶貴意見我很希望讓我們想一個名稱出來讓我們所努力所做的可以更精準更精進也讓除了我們做以外也要讓我們的農民我們的消費者知道我們的建物是真正有在研發"},{"start":10716.562,"end":10731.292,"text":"是真正有在協助農民的這樣我們才能夠跟世界接軌發揚光大 對不對那你如果這個team成立之後那你在行政院的預算理當沒有理由不給我們農業最重要的還有碳的問題欸"},{"start":10737.056,"end":10759.326,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":10763.1,"end":10789.446,"text":"好這個我要跟農業部建議齁因為這個是在於整個這個農業的一個管理那事實上我之前也有跟諸位反映過我們這個台灣的稻米的品種這幾年來齁我感覺也不是我感覺是很多農民說這個品種一直沒有研發出再新的品種所以很多農民他只落在兩個選擇一個是台南11號一個是台農85號然後一個可以繳公糧一個不可以繳公糧"},{"start":10793.007,"end":10795.772,"text":"阿一個是在拼量產阿一個另外是在"},{"start":10796.271,"end":10802.133,"text":"中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度"},{"start":10825.802,"end":10852.802,"text":"這個稻米一出來那個出來越久它的那個病蟲害它的抗病蟲害的那個指標就會逐年下降所以我覺得說農業部有必要在這一點再強化那我的建議我事實上是同剛剛賴瑞榮委員我們希望是凍結一百萬那請他針對我們幾個委員提出了議題提出一個書面報告後然後才動之好謝謝"},{"start":10861.303,"end":10890.458,"text":"下一位請那個 呃 張啟凱我們的高麗菜啊 十月還止爆就是 量產太多了 不曉得怎麼處理結果今天啦 高麗菜竟然說 大家在搶過我們那個產銷到底出了什麼問題源頭 根本 那個源頭的那個 那個整個產銷失調為什麼這麼嚴重呢前陣子還有整個 斑斑要食斑斑斑要吃食斑 然後斑斑喝鮮奶"},{"start":10891.778,"end":10920.094,"text":"顯然說出了一個問題所以我要求很明確要求在這個03的這個畜牧管理這一塊至少先凍結一千萬另外我繼續講超私我剛已經提了三個跟超私有關監察院的這個調查報告我現在繼續講第四個監察院說了禮約情形確認書裡面有一個很嚴重的事情廠商要多少錢自己填然後呢近來也沒有驗說"},{"start":10922.362,"end":10944.011,"text":"導致我們光是買超市的雞蛋至少損失人民的納稅錢是5億以上人民怨聲載道特別是農民說為什麼這不公平立法院又好好監督所以我明確的要求續牧師你要負責監督中央續產會你的監督職責到哪裡去了"},{"start":10948.447,"end":10955.624,"text":"所以我要求在畜牧師這一塊畜牧的這個管理有兩筆我提了兩個簡略一千萬就是簡略兩千萬謝謝"},{"start":10958.328,"end":10975.528,"text":"直到直到我希望這次的檢列不是只有錢的變少我期待農業部特別是畜牧師要做好對中央畜產會的監督管理不要再單位人民的納稅錢也不要再讓我們吃到壞蛋或吃到過期壞掉的這個農產品謝謝"},{"start":10981.998,"end":10988.079,"text":"好 謝謝主席我的案子是第48案48案也是提到提到我們這個整個對於產銷履歷驗證制度跟擴大這個參與的這個計畫跟加強我們農產品的這個管理計畫也就是說對於我們整個福島的這個宣傳媒體的這個宣傳費部分也是有增加到一千"},{"start":11008.044,"end":11037.262,"text":"一百零五萬六千元所以我們希望我們整個預算裡面可以把這個增加的部分這個理由啊詳細的說明白說清楚交給我們書面報告不要特別的這個對於特定的媒體去偏袒所以我這個部分也是先以凍結一百萬那另外另外一個案子我是第55個案子這就是有關我們的斑斑喝鮮奶這個部分那尤其現在我們是要幫助我們的糯農但是在產量不足的情況之下學校又沒有冷藏"},{"start":11037.842,"end":11038.042,"text":"疑慮中"},{"start":11068.548,"end":11083.419,"text":"關於農業管理的話我提了第38案、53案、54案、167案那我簡單的大概把它細數一下第一個我們在海關的檢疫啊"},{"start":11084.853,"end":11101.438,"text":"當然現在是虧重因為我們的豬肉為了要那個什麽,民人大概就要把它解凍了。但是我有看一個問題啊,他帶了月餅過來的時候想說中秋節到了,偶爾就到機場買一個月餅來送,"},{"start":11103.834,"end":11113.011,"text":"朋友,結果一打開裡面有肉,有肉你把它丟不丟手啊,把它划20萬,保證啊,我如果買這個月餅,我如果傻了,我裡面會被我綁肉。"},{"start":11116.306,"end":11144.123,"text":"所以我覺得這樣子而且顏色特別嚴重我講的顏色特別嚴重是怎樣中國大陸來了一個一個檢查歐美進來的話 pass pass 過去所以我就覺得很奇怪啊這一點有時候我們做人要有一個認證那我也去又不敢去關說只能拜託啊其實很無奈啊我是強調在哪裡月餅裡面我不知道是寶寶"},{"start":11145.967,"end":11153.89,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":11175.748,"end":11195.475,"text":"那今天的農業管理我再提幾個例子我碰到了我到花蓮部長我要帶你去他們在種的薑黃薑黃是紅色的叫做印度薑黃薑黃的在於那個萃取物裡面它的功效非常大"},{"start":11196.584,"end":11217.18,"text":"他是農用4萬7就是那個農電共生這樣種出來你要做高單價的這就是農業科技我再來講第二個我們茶葉改良廠有一個紫色的茶葉我不曉得品種好不好那個廠長在不在喔不在啊齁"},{"start":11220.905,"end":11249.492,"text":"你也送過來給我,常常三個會跑你一出來,沒有喝過到底。但是那個紫色,綠茶精裡面講茶葉什麼最好,就是紫色。它要備矮向陽。我看過原始的紫色的茶葉。那像這麼好的品種,我們為什麼不大量宣傳,把它推展出去。那剛剛我一直在講,能量物流很重要,能動技術很重要。"},{"start":11251.018,"end":11270.079,"text":"我看過有朋友把水果一切開冷凍下去去冰盤台灣水果品質好冰盤以後就你可以外銷出去所以在這個冷凍包括講的高麗菜你把它切一切放在裡面不然用現在有一種技術叫做"},{"start":11271.277,"end":11282.92,"text":"那個極速冷凍的、原汁原味都不會跑。我們的農業科技,這樣農民才不會辛苦。你去想這樣的東西,你去看人家怎麼做。"},{"start":11284.895,"end":11310.77,"text":"那個人我去看了他為了我現在跟你講幾個觀念他那個叫油乾油乾他用冷凍的技術結果出來的原味都一樣阿油乾裡面有很多有機的非常好那他做出來的豆腐我覺得是世界第一好吃的乾可以做乳酪我們討論要變啦不然明天天你看著天"},{"start":11312.816,"end":11329.335,"text":"那個天氣在做農業是沒有用的所以這台機你今天去農業管理啊一定兩鏈一輪兩鏈技術加工的技術真的要出來我們可以聊天可以去我帶你去看"},{"start":11331.319,"end":11357.477,"text":"這整個機制都在改變還有我剛剛講的養殖機制我本來要請你們說來做一個試驗把那個現在生計的機制加在裡面它等於是活化細胞把壞的細胞講我們的存活力大概可以95%但是要跟你官方來做的話要官方的認證比較準那這個機制一成功部長你聰明啊"},{"start":11358.337,"end":11382.123,"text":"你贏得了養殖界的諾貝爾獎我一直在強調一定要去改變你的農業管理及時加起來都在這個方基本的工夫弄好基本的機制弄好包括你凝凍的顏料你都要去研究出來起來我也吃過我為什麼今天講話我敢講這個那個蝦凝凍了兩年"},{"start":11387.588,"end":11415.84,"text":"他說他技術很好,都標示清純,兩段兩連打開的時候出來跟新鮮的完全一樣。保證你不相信,你來看,來我講。所以現在這技術很厲害啊,不要照傳統的觀念,一定要去改變啦。台灣的農業才有前途有希望,不用每天每天插來插去啦。希望你這一點真的能聽得進去啦。"},{"start":11418.512,"end":11425.884,"text":"現在我們很多化學藥都有抗藥性它是生機的都無毒的自然每一條魚每一隻條汁每一條雞"},{"start":11429.008,"end":11456.361,"text":"都完完整整長得非常好我們應該朝這個方向在進展不要顧不住我一直強調這一點農業科技的進步跟AI一樣一直在追一直在追求最好好不好那關於農業關於我很少刪農業部的預算刪下來你沒有講我的壞話到地方說你看他刪預算但是我跟部長講"},{"start":11457.711,"end":11485.874,"text":"有時候你們下去不要講國民黨擋預算我們所有的預算都是在農曆里前才過你們下去啊誰擋預算你不要擋預算陳昌明最負預算真的很不舒服沒有沒有沒有你不要踢執政黨編戶不要這麼欺度那麼小我們每次審預算都還沒開始就說擋預算你也不要亂說我說你最負預算啦我是最負你附行農業部的附行我很支持啦"},{"start":11486.587,"end":11501.47,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":11515.77,"end":11532.108,"text":"那是台茶25號目前正在賣那個沒有?那個要推廣我們都不知道指涉的產業是最好的所以我說我們很多農產品的推廣系統其實我覺得不到位啦所以才會讓今天很多委員提供一些建議我們來處理包括部長因為我讀律理的時候"},{"start":11533.67,"end":11553.602,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民"},{"start":11559.107,"end":11560.808,"text":"學富5G陳永生委員"},{"start":11577.52,"end":11605.964,"text":"好來謝謝主席這個農業管理項下本席本來是有提案的那這個陰錯陽差被改成了主決議不過我還是要請教一下這科技管理跟我前面在問的那一個我們所有的科技農業那個是有相關現在很多的農民會來反映就是我們現在看到你科技管理項下會有溯源的這件事情那席產地這個事情有沒有辦法處理"},{"start":11606.624,"end":11635.551,"text":"不論農產或漁產現在其實在坊間我們都會面臨到所謂的席產地蔬菜從中國進口但是轉了一圈到越南來變成是越南越南種植的蔬菜那漁產更不用講我看昨天還有一個新聞在講說我們現在吃到了很多野生烏魚其實是中國走私的漁獲所以你們在溯源這一塊到底能夠怎麼做的科技管理"},{"start":11636.251,"end":11646.096,"text":"要怎麼樣去做科技管理,這個可不可以請農業部也說明一下,謝謝。好,來,接著請張雅玲委員。張雅玲委員,這是張家俊。"},{"start":11649.261,"end":11675.575,"text":"好 我的提案是第76案那這個部分我主要想要針對就是遊蕩犬的一些那個餵食的管理因為我們這幾年呢我們發現了幾個比較重大的問題就是這7年來我們人類撞動物傷亡的人數是增加了56%整體交通死亡只有37%所以它是更高的所以有非常多的越來越多的人是因為撞到動物而受傷或死亡那同時呢"},{"start":11676.596,"end":11678.036,"text":"農業部有回應民間為野生動物而走的"},{"start":11694.721,"end":11695.181,"text":"議案第11屆第11屆議案第11屆"},{"start":11717.688,"end":11717.848,"text":"第77案"},{"start":11726.874,"end":11748.152,"text":"抱歉就是說因為還是回到剛剛講的造成人呃人員的傷亡跟死亡之前部長在之前質詢的時候他回覆我是說因為相關的求償需要透過法律的判決才能夠確定所以會來研議來納入相關的判決所以我這一幕這一案呢最主要也只是來延續之前部長的一個承諾要來進行研議"},{"start":11750.334,"end":11766.229,"text":"所以這個部分的話我也想要瞭解說我們現在做的到底可不可行因為之前段寶司長好像是來跟我們討論的時候是說可能沒有辦法謝謝亞林單位請農業部做莫答覆最後一位發言請張家俊張家俊之後我們就請農業部做莫答覆"},{"start":11766.937,"end":11778.039,"text":"好主席那針對這一幕我提的總共有46、49、53、57、62、63、69、73、78、85、80、83、89其實蠻多案子的待會也希望農業部好好的說明一下那主要我想要講的就是有關於其實畜牧在台灣是一個非常重要的產業"},{"start":11795.663,"end":11801.806,"text":"過去當然農業部有百億的基金來支持也希望說當然未來要繼續支持蓄產業的發展可是我們不希望只是一味的補助我希望也是能夠提供我們蓄木業一個新的方向現在很多"},{"start":11817.034,"end":11838.776,"text":"先進的國家甚至我們的鄰國在這個養殖業包括養豬養雞都是非常的科技化然後甚至他是像大樓一樣的他是由上往下這樣子非常的先進然後非常的乾淨他把這個畜牧業把農民哦畜牧的農民變成一個農企業"},{"start":11840.498,"end":11862.971,"text":"那我覺得這才是我們農業部應該要引領農民前往的方向而不是一直用舊有的方式或者是補助他舊有的方式應該要有誘因讓他可以前進然後可以進步然後讓我們的這個台灣的農民更有尊嚴更有光榮感而且能夠創造更大的產值"},{"start":11864.612,"end":11879.421,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基"},{"start":11885.805,"end":11894.555,"text":"那到底花了這麼多錢是去哪裡合作了?然後有沒有學一些新的東西?我想這一點可能農業部要努力,謝謝。好,謝謝。農業部總管導務之後我們來處理。"},{"start":11897.432,"end":11925.04,"text":"好 那個謝委員剛才的一些提案的一個指證那針對陳委員那邊動物保護的部分那現在我們針對動物不管是新建的或是舊的一個收容所的升級我們都在處理那明年度有一個新的就是說我們會在收容所跟都會區有一個衛星的認養站能夠去拉抬這個收容所的這個那個周轉率然後另外"},{"start":11926.841,"end":11949.082,"text":"那個賴委員提到的國際行銷的部分我想我們持續會在做這樣的一個國際行銷那楊委員所提到的就是說有關於檢疫的部分在荷蘭有一些檢疫的部分那這個檢疫的部分我想我們持續會去協商那至於說邊境卡關的部分那相對的每一次像這次颱風來了以後有很多蔬菜是在"},{"start":11949.462,"end":11971.527,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11971.627,"end":11990.318,"text":"那另外有關於提到那個產銷履歷的一個驗證跟輔導就是李委員所提到的這個產銷履歷的部分我想產銷履歷的部分基本上我們持續的在推動最主要是針對後面的這些溯源的部分我們會去強調那這個產銷履歷的溯源跟"},{"start":11994.14,"end":12017.846,"text":"當才那個邱毅英委員所提到的就是說席產地的部分那溯源的部分是針對國產品那你如果有貼的話我可以確保那席產地的部分其實一個最重要的就是我要有那個那個產地鑑別的這個技術如果沒有那個技術的話我沒辦法處理那現在我們在推動我以牡蠣來講我推動的就是養殖登記"},{"start":12018.846,"end":12021.329,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12033.763,"end":12053.848,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":12053.988,"end":12082.374,"text":"那另外蔡議委員所提到的稻米的品種那其實我們試驗單位的稻米品種非常多啦但是相對的農民要種通常都會選產量高的去種所以11號永遠是比較多的但是在我們後續在規劃整個公糧政策的調整還有現在目前的一級二轉三加上的部分我們有把U紙米當作轉U紙米有一個獎勵的誘因我們希望說能夠讓它做逐步的轉"},{"start":12084.356,"end":12094.585,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及所屬單位預算部分"},{"start":12106.135,"end":12121.565,"text":"然後那個禁止餵養的部分我們會先從自然保育的生態區那邊去試推然後相關的法規的研議我們也會我們已經在做相關的處理好那熱區的部分我們接下來熱區的部分的禁止餵養雖然說現在是一個"},{"start":12122.725,"end":12148.142,"text":"1個自願式的我們會宣導但是我們從自然保育區往那邊擴這個部分我想我們會來努力那那個章委員所提到的蓄養特別是畜牧的飼養的部分科技化的部分事實上現在很多農企業的養豬的養雞的他都是樓層化的部分那這個部分也是我們鼓勵的方向但是相對的就是說目前農民本身"},{"start":12148.702,"end":12173.212,"text":"因為改建的時候的地木有時候造成林壁設施林壁的效應有時候旁邊的周遭的鄰居一直反對不過這個部分我想我們會來強化這是一個對的方向就是朝向科技化的養殖讓我們養豬的那個事業不再是一個讓人家閒避的事業以上好我們休息兩分鐘半對啊休息兩分鐘半部長"},{"start":12178.939,"end":12182.147,"text":"我們第4幕處理完再休息吼第3幕"},{"start":12455.189,"end":12480.699,"text":"來我們請回座那個我跟委員會各位委員報告齁就是去年啦就是13年我們在審這筆這筆預算正目的時候啊是整個農業部嗎齁整個農業部齁我們在委員會審查的時候是沒有檢列喔是沒有檢列喔"},{"start":12483.266,"end":12483.526,"text":"我剛剛有討論"},{"start":12512.515,"end":12523.989,"text":"這個第三幕的部分整個第三幕它僅列兩千萬科目自行調整然後凍結凍結那個"},{"start":12532.039,"end":12562.039,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12562.039,"end":12583.319,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":12594.167,"end":12606.713,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":12608.649,"end":12624.898,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非農業特別收入基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":12635.964,"end":12656.82,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":12664.349,"end":12687.355,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事"},{"start":12687.875,"end":12713.688,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":12722.393,"end":12740.24,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田"},{"start":12742.421,"end":12768.044,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":12769.565,"end":12798.169,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":12803.316,"end":12807.386,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":12808.677,"end":12837.242,"text":"二、繼續審查農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田"},{"start":12838.762,"end":12865.51,"text":"二、繼續審查農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":12867.108,"end":12881.664,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":12898.226,"end":12910.777,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":12920.73,"end":12939.874,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":12944.198,"end":12950.083,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":12974.343,"end":12980.219,"text":"農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民"},{"start":12987.858,"end":13013.565,"text":"二、繼續審查一、繼續審查三、繼續審查四、繼續審查五、繼續審查六、繼續審查七、繼續審查八、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、"},{"start":13023.319,"end":13036.625,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":13058.575,"end":13082.64,"text":"農田水利事業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民"},{"start":13088.271,"end":13106.626,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":13115.776,"end":13142.521,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":13148.5,"end":13163.504,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及所屬單位預算部分："},{"start":13166.561,"end":13171.227,"text":"議員您已經有這個版本了,應該是以這個為準。議員您已經有這個版本了,應該是以這個為準。"},{"start":13190.896,"end":13218.686,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":13220.889,"end":13223.41,"text":"是跟這個有關係嗎?應該再打我這個電話有問題"},{"start":13257.216,"end":13264.76,"text":"不是我的電話有問題啊,沒有辦法找到,沒有辦法找到那個,它是用,這個啊,對,是怎麼按呢?"},{"start":13282.998,"end":13306.946,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及"},{"start":13316.084,"end":13330.503,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":13351.254,"end":13368.466,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分："},{"start":13398.977,"end":13400.698,"text":"二、繼續審查一、繼續審查三、繼續審查四、繼續審查五、繼續審查六、繼續審查七、繼續審查八、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、繼續審查十五、"},{"start":13420.367,"end":13448.353,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":13453.203,"end":13475.219,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":13483.301,"end":13492.706,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":13496.084,"end":13512.845,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":13514.787,"end":13539.691,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":13545.555,"end":13574.235,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作"},{"start":13575.947,"end":13602.122,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":13620.391,"end":13629.444,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":13632.824,"end":13649.957,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":13651.37,"end":13654.094,"text":"陳婷菲委員、蔡易瑜委員、吳麗華委員、鄭天才委員部會首長部分陳部長、原民會王處長"},{"start":13667.796,"end":13690.72,"text":"教育部有兩個專委紀賢養紀專委跟這個廖雙慶廖專委海委會有羅敬明組長海委會法務部林參事好謝謝好那我們現在就好那我們是不是請這個議事人員先宣讀一下上次的這個"},{"start":13697.854,"end":13726.047,"text":"來 那我再跟委員會報告一下我們上一次的審查結論保留了4個條文分別是第19條、第21條、第21條之一及第51條之一還有保留一項附帶決議那這幾個條文要交付黨團協商那所以我們今天就從這幾個保留的條文的部分先來進行協商那首先我們先從第19條開始來 那個農業部的代表要再說明嗎"},{"start":13737.072,"end":13737.833,"text":"主席跟各位委員"},{"start":13738.752,"end":13759.542,"text":"那我們針對上一次被保留的這個第19條跟21條我們說明一下那19的部分我們是針對這個金屬售甲是全面的禁用那另外呢也接受委員的建議納入原本的這個炸藥跟爆裂物的這個使用"},{"start":13760.362,"end":13775.285,"text":"那另外呢還有一個就是所謂的金屬套索我們是希望說金屬套索他還是有在食物上農民或者原住民族的獵人他會需要那但是我們也考量到說他"},{"start":13776.586,"end":13776.606,"text":"第21條19條19條"},{"start":13814.313,"end":13840.093,"text":"我跟大家再補充說明一下就是因為我們上次討論的時候大家對於售假的部分其實是有兩派不同的意見跟看法那我們有部分的委員認為應該要全面禁用金屬套索但是我們其實也考量到原住民族的這個傳統狩獵跟農民的防治受害其實某個程度上都還是有這一些"},{"start":13842.295,"end":13869.573,"text":"需求但是農業部現在在推廣改良式的改良式的售甲今天他們也特別改良式的金屬套索所以今天也特別把這個食品也帶來到現場讓各位委員能夠清楚的了解所以我想兼具兩者不同的這個立場是不是我們建議維持這個行政院原來的條文"},{"start":13871.094,"end":13874.738,"text":"內容請問各位委員可以接受嗎?"},{"start":13874.738,"end":13876.4,"text":"請問各位委員可以接受嗎?"},{"start":13889.78,"end":13914.478,"text":"好,接下來我們要討論第21條,那農業部還有建議的條文嗎?第二十一條的部分,算是經過委員大家的討論我們接受委員的意見就是有關於第一項的部分排除的部分第19條第一項,本來是第一款也排除但是我們現在認為第一項的那個炸藥跟其他的爆裂物"},{"start":13915.279,"end":13918.28,"text":"第21條以及第21條之一就是款次的調整文字上做一些調整請問大家有沒有意見"},{"start":13946.237,"end":13946.257,"text":"先討論21條"},{"start":13952.091,"end":13978.129,"text":"21條對阿21條之一是一樣的啦所以我們現在把那個炸藥把它列為禁止的項目之一所以他的那個條次款項是做一些調整啦就是說我們在緊急列補的需要的時候我們也不可以使用炸藥所以現在就會排除說不能第一款也不能用所以炸藥是全面禁用不管是緊急的狀況也不可以使用這是第21條的規定以上"},{"start":13982.652,"end":13984.073,"text":"農業部提供的建議條文修正通過好不好?"},{"start":14009.448,"end":14012.03,"text":"第二十一條第一項野生動物有下列情形之一者得予以獵殺或"},{"start":14027.677,"end":14041.883,"text":"得益略補或宰殺不受第17條第1項、第18條第1項及第19條第1項第2款至第6款規定之限制,但保育類野生動物除情況緊急外應先報請主管機關處理。"},{"start":14043.444,"end":14068.067,"text":"一、有危及公共安全或人類性命之餘。二、危害農林作物、家禽、家畜或水產養殖。三、傳播疾病或病蟲害。四、有妨害航空安全之餘。五、其他經主管機關核准之情形。保育類野生動物有危害農林作物、家禽、家畜或水產養殖。在緊急情況下未及報請。主管機關處理者德意。"},{"start":14069.4,"end":14080.775,"text":"主管機關和定致人道方式與獵捕或宰殺以防制危害宣讀完畢。好來請問各位委員第21條我們是不是就照"},{"start":14082.412,"end":14101.894,"text":"農業部建議的條文文字修正通過好嗎好謝謝來接下來我們看第21條之一那21條之一也是因為之前有第19條第一項的這個所列的方法所以我們也是就文字上去做一些調整我是不是請議事人員念一下"},{"start":14122.243,"end":14140.416,"text":"第21條之一,臺灣原住民族基於其傳統文化、既宜或非營利自用而有獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物之必要者,不受第17條第一項、第18條第一項及第19條第一項第二款至第二款規定之限制。 宣讀完畢。"},{"start":14145.873,"end":14146.654,"text":"第2項沒有唸到,來"},{"start":14151.431,"end":14179.576,"text":"第二項前項獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物之行為應經主管機關核准或被查其申請核准或被查之情形得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之必要情形申請程序應檢附文件獵捕方式獵捕動物之種類數量獵捕期間區域管理及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關會同中央原住民主管機關定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":14180.977,"end":14187.555,"text":"好來請問各位委員第21條之一我們的文字是不是照這樣修正通過吳立華委員"},{"start":14190.299,"end":14217.845,"text":"好 我也說明一下齁因為這一次的修法其實是為了回應司法院大法官對於獵人王光路案作出的釋字803號解釋所以呢在第21條之一就增列了院版也有增列就是非營利自用的要件納入了原住民的獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物的除罪化範圍"},{"start":14219.005,"end":14230.069,"text":"第13屆立法院第14屆立法院第15屆立法院第16屆立法院第17屆立法院第18屆立法院第19屆立法院第19屆立法院第20屆立法院第21屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院第22屆立法院"},{"start":14239.292,"end":14257.909,"text":"那也基於民間社會提倡的人道考量對於全面禁用售假本席後來是予以尊重但是既然大法官他做出解釋那我們的修法的內容也符合他的解釋意旨所以呢就是以這個行政法替代刑法的部分"},{"start":14258.59,"end":14285.648,"text":"我覺得這個條文的文字修正我不堅持可是我就是要確保在法令落實的操作過程就跟過去的獵槍一樣不會因為法條它創造的一個模糊的空間讓檢察官跟法官到時候會有不同的解釋所以呢我很堅持就是在第21條之一原住民只要是基於傳統文化既以或非營利自用而獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物不管"},{"start":14286.969,"end":14302.098,"text":"列具的類別或者是衍生動物類別都不要用刑罰處罰然後在第二項訂定原住民獵捕衍生動物所應遵循的辦法所以這個部分我一定要再次的強調 謝謝正天才委員這個21條現行的21條之一"},{"start":14312.521,"end":14332.821,"text":"有幾個部分第一個就是說這個過去只有現行的條文只有寫傳統文化還有記這兩個部分那因為原住民族基本法在94年2月5號公布施行之後這個因為一直沒有修雖然我們在第8屆第9屆"},{"start":14335.704,"end":14341.188,"text":"第10屆一直有提案,但是一直沒有通過,所以我在105年的時候就透過這個相關的解釋,"},{"start":14351.007,"end":14380.296,"text":"解釋已經106年就解釋包含了研究法的所謂的非營利自用所以這個部分事實上在106年之後都已經有以非營利自用就可以了這是第一個第二個現在因為過去之前也提到這個所有的案都要經過核准是不合理的"},{"start":14380.896,"end":14381.737,"text":"第2、文字統一性"},{"start":14408.652,"end":14413.306,"text":"如果我們看這個後面的條文包括包括其他的法律的條文"},{"start":14415.465,"end":14441.185,"text":"因為當初修正的時候沒有單獨因為是單獨接條之前的修正所以我建議就是說那個臺灣原住民族那個臺灣兩個字可以刪除我們後面的條文也只有寫原住民族了我們其他的法律條文也都是只有寫原住民族比如說原住民族基本法沒有寫臺灣原住民族基本法原住民族委員會也沒有寫臺灣原住民族"},{"start":14442.286,"end":14443.487,"text":"來,行政單位有什麼意見?"},{"start":14464.858,"end":14491.625,"text":"好,剛剛吳委員的這個提案我們其實已經在待會會討論到51條51之一處理了那鄭天才委員的這個建議呢我們就遵照辦理我們把台灣兩個字刪除好來,法務部有沒有意見51條之一就是只有寫原住民之一好"},{"start":14493.426,"end":14520.454,"text":"來那基於法律的一致性來第21條之一我們的這個臺灣兩個字把它刪除所以就是一樣都是寫原住民族等等好來那後面的這個修正的文字是不是就照原來的提案通過好嗎照那個農業部的對不起農業部的修正建議條文通過好謝謝來接下來我們"},{"start":14523.106,"end":14539.022,"text":"謝謝我們要討論第25條那因為這個第25條是由洪孟凱委員等提案進覆二讀那並沒有在委員會裡頭有過討論所以我們現在也把他放進來討論那個洪孟凱委員在現場是不是請洪委員謝謝感謝周委"},{"start":14540.363,"end":14560.553,"text":"這個部分雖然現行條文是已經有說要經中央主管機關同意但是過去到現在我們也看到就是說有輸入所謂的這個野生動物的時候輸入保育類野生動物跟相關製品的時候也有發生一些爭議那這樣爭議部分的情況下其實還是會造成說到底中央主管機關的這個"},{"start":14563.174,"end":14577.88,"text":"打關的部分夠不夠嚴謹以及充分所以說我才會在這邊是講是說他應該具有環境教育機構的資格並且經中央主管機關同意因為其主要在於是保育類野生動物"},{"start":14579.2,"end":14604.639,"text":"維護野生動物,它不是一般動物而已,是保育的野生動物。那再加上雖然說這個行政部門有講到是說是這一些機關可能會有所謂的這個學術交流等等的部分,但是就保育類野生動物是不是有那麼頻繁的需要做這樣的一個輸入輸出的一個狀況,我想這也是值得商榷。那所以是不是大家可以研究的或是說主管機關是能夠在我們相關"},{"start":14605.479,"end":14614.108,"text":"立法說明還是怎麼樣能夠有一些比較加緊嚴謹不要再讓過去有發生的一些弊端的一個狀況再發生好不好"},{"start":14616.218,"end":14638.241,"text":"請農業部說明跟委員報告一下就是說這次委員建議加了所謂環境教育機構的資格那就我們現在去查我們目前該等的這些那個大專院校的這些研究機構的部分大部分都沒有都不是屬於環境教育機構啦所以基本上如果要把它加上這樣的一個要件呢"},{"start":14638.641,"end":14638.761,"text":"以上。"},{"start":14669.563,"end":14670.244,"text":"陳婷菲委員"},{"start":14685.886,"end":14700.915,"text":"主席我可不可以稍微補充一下就是剛才洪委員所提到的那當然增加了那個環境教育資格會造成更多的一個制度的審查但是因為我們是要經中央主管機關同意嘛所以我們"},{"start":14702.356,"end":14729.197,"text":"在中央主管機關同意的這個過程也許在立法說明我們可以再做一些說明就是說我要去同意他的時候應該他具備什麼樣的一個資格條件可以在立法說明去說明說以後中央主管機關同意的時候是基於什麼樣的原則這樣的話就是在原條不改在我們在立法說明去做一些調整不然如果實務寫這些應據交易機構資格那就很明定的時候那就會造成一些困擾以上"},{"start":14731.94,"end":14746.673,"text":"好 主席部長剛剛講的部分也是因為我們都希望的是說要加強這個不要說有這個弊端的一個產生那保育類野生動物其實它輸入進出本來就已經有一定的一個嚴謹性"},{"start":14747.734,"end":14776.647,"text":"那所以說這樣子的一個那個文字的部分是不是能夠請同仁這邊給我稍微看一下那如果說讓我看過我覺得OK的話其實這一條我沒有那麼堅持好不好就依照現行條文但是你的這個文字要怎麼樣未來比較明確的嚴謹的一個這個中央主管機關審查的一個過程或說中央主管機關同意的一個方向你至少讓我知道可以嗎那你們這另外另外有一個"},{"start":14778.729,"end":14778.969,"text":"第51條之一"},{"start":14807.003,"end":14834.22,"text":"現在還有另外兩個由張祺凱委員跟本席的修正動議是不是張委員要先補充說明一下謝謝我看了行政院版跟我們很多委員的提案內容大致上大同小異啦我今天提到是增加說基於傳統文化基於或者是這個非營利的自用這個類譜宰殺或者非利用野生動物這違反一第二十條之一"},{"start":14835.421,"end":14860.123,"text":"第二項鎖定在辦法裡面的有關申請核准或被查的情形得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之必要的情形、獵捕方式、獵捕動物之種類、數量、獵捕期間、契約或管理之規定者依照下面來處罰。第一個是屬於保育類動物的處新台幣兩萬以上十萬以下"},{"start":14861.744,"end":14889.574,"text":"第二,屬一般野生動物的,處新台幣1000元以上、1萬元以下。裡面有一個很重要的條文就是第一次首次違反前項規定者不罰,然後因為失犯第一項跟第一款之行為者,處新台幣5000元以上、2萬元以下。那我看得起那很多委員的都是比較類似的,所以條文應該增一些不大。這是第一個,然後第二個是那個,抱歉剛剛高進都提了一個什麼修正動議,我是幫他墊還是送上去就好?"},{"start":14891.058,"end":14919.27,"text":"上內容都大同小異啦我看那個雅琳的還有那個吳立法他們的整個提案都差不多嘛這是可以讓我們議事人員看一下好不好因為現在突然送上來我們都還沒看到文字內容高經的不是我的案子本來就列在裡面啊來那個那個農業部你們有手上有嗎高經的是吧還是你說的是高高經的張祺凱委員的有嗎有啦我的有啊在裡面啊"},{"start":14922.496,"end":14927.819,"text":"所以現在不是高金委員是您用您的名字提案就對了?對啊我就跟你說這裡沒有張祺凱的案啊"},{"start":14940.151,"end":14967.454,"text":"你現在說明的是張吉凱的提案嗎?沒關係,我說的是我跟他一起連署的案,那高津的案子就送上來一起討論就好了,好不好?沒事?不是啦,你現在是高津有另外一個案,跟你有另外,你的案跟高津的案是兩個不同的案,還是高津是用你的名字去提案?是兩個案,是兩個案。你看嘛,他講的是兩個案啦,可是我現在手頭上只有一個案啊。用高津這個討論好了,好不好?好,OK。好來,那就用高津委員的提案討論齁。"},{"start":14971.728,"end":14973.029,"text":"這是一個重要的條文第51條之一第一個"},{"start":15001.955,"end":15029.146,"text":"這個我們看這個現在就是農業部所提的建議的條文跟現行的條文有很大的差別那我的第一個就是說那個第8款農業部建議的條文的那個第8款我是建議刪除了為什麼呢如果我們回到那個第"},{"start":15031.525,"end":15056.63,"text":"我把它講清楚就是使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款那個第8款了如果我們看這個19條19條已經有變動那以現在的19條有變動這第一個有變動了第二個從第一款第19條的第一款第一款一定是"},{"start":15057.751,"end":15086.877,"text":"最嚴重的嘛對不對一直到後面第7款第8款其他有授權給你們的一定是比較輕微的很嚴重的都已經在第1款、第2款、第3款、第4款這是一個部分嘛所以我是建議那個第51條之一這邊所提到使用第19條第一項那個第8款可以刪除這是第一個第二個"},{"start":15088.971,"end":15112.363,"text":"第二個為什麼還是要首次違反者不罰是因為我們也做了不同的修正比如說售假大家過去已經使用售假習慣了因為原來的條文21條所有第19條的各款第一項各款"},{"start":15113.593,"end":15142.484,"text":"當初都可以啊原住民啊現行條文是這樣那你現在第19條也做了修正了過去我們是不能過去可以用售假有幾個例子那現在新的條文是不能了所以還是要先導還是要先導所以還是要有首次不法這是第二個部分要請希望農業部能夠接受"},{"start":15144.209,"end":15167.615,"text":"第三個部分你們現在把它針對了這個保育類保育類跟非保育類一般類這個屬保育類的部分當然大法官的那個803號解釋你們不能只看一部分還要看哪個部分呢"},{"start":15169.264,"end":15196.997,"text":"他這裡面有提到一句話除有特殊例外他前面食物上啊食物上獵捕野生動物你自己的那個說明二那邊食物上獵捕野生動物雖無法預知所獵捕到之野生動物是一般類還是保育類這是事實沒有錯對不對所以呢既然無法預知啊"},{"start":15198.483,"end":15223.966,"text":"既然是無法預支然後道法官的解釋文也提到除有特殊情形外所以我們考慮到這個部分如果你要去分保育類跟一般類的話我的建議就是第一款的部分屬保育類野生動物這個部分加兩個字"},{"start":15226.363,"end":15245.461,"text":"民資屬保育類野生動物加個民資就符合這個大法官的一個憲判的一個解釋所以這個部分是一個部分所以在這樣的一個情形之下當然這個"},{"start":15251.252,"end":15261.918,"text":"如果可以加明資的話就更符合因為這裡面本來就有寫除有特殊例外這用詞是大法官的一個用詞以上"},{"start":15268.114,"end":15288.588,"text":"吳麗華委員發言完之後我們請農業部回應謝謝主席在第51條之一剛才署長有講他是去處理如果原住民違反第21條之一第二項的這個鎖定的辦法的時候應該要受到行政法的一個條款"},{"start":15290.009,"end":15310.039,"text":"那但是如果這一次修正之後前面的其他條文如果有涉及到原住民獵捕野生動物的限制內容例如使用獸甲等等那我這邊是主張說都應該要在本條當中明確處理就是寫清楚以行政法處罰即可"},{"start":15310.839,"end":15334.299,"text":"所以在這樣的原則之下呢我的建議修正文字就把原住民族基於其傳統文化、記憶或非營利自用獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物加上使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款鎖定禁止之方式或違反第21條之一第二項"},{"start":15336.201,"end":15349.635,"text":"再加鎖定辦法中有關申請核准或被查之情形、得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之必要情形、獵捕方式、獵捕動物之種類、數量、"},{"start":15351.937,"end":15366.542,"text":"列補期間區域或管理之規定者一下列規定處罰就增定一屬保育類野生動物處新台幣兩萬元以上十萬元以下罰還,不適用第41條之規定。"},{"start":15368.123,"end":15396.84,"text":"然後二、屬一般類野生動物處新台幣一千元以上一萬元以下罰款增加不適用第49條第一項第二款之規定那因為這個條文從上個會期其實跟很多的委員還有我們的農業部溝通過很多次應該是沒有什麼問題那也在這邊很謝謝有這樣的共識那另外針對剛才的那個首次"},{"start":15397.82,"end":15399.421,"text":"我希望這個部分要注意。以上,謝謝。"},{"start":15428.261,"end":15428.281,"text":"農業部"},{"start":15457.797,"end":15477.77,"text":"跟各位委員報告一下對於首次違反者不罰因為這是現行條文在執行上以前都不會有問題為什麼因為首次不罰是指那個行為人要被處罰的那個人用這個人來看所以這個人他第一次違反這個規定才會被罰所以在認定上他不會有太大的困難"},{"start":15478.59,"end":15482.494,"text":"維園在講說要把第八管排除那我要先說明這一條的法則他是因應21條之一來的"},{"start":15496.888,"end":15516.016,"text":"二十一條之一要回到二十一條之一去看二十一條之一它只有排除第二款到第六款所以第一款、第七款、第八款這三款是沒有排除的所以它沒有排除所以你違反的話就要依五十一條之一"},{"start":15517.176,"end":15528.456,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":15531.164,"end":15558.221,"text":"因為21條之一他的義務條文是在21條之一所以原住民基於傳統文化記憶或非營利自用他獵捕宰殺動物是不可以使用經中央主管機關公告的方式公告禁止的方法所以他一旦違反了這一條的規定他的處罰就會回到51條之一就處刑證罰然後就不適用刑罰的規定那以上做個說明"},{"start":15560.654,"end":15585.312,"text":"好來簡單說就是說第50條之一其實是對應第21條之一我們是對應它所產生的罰則所以剛剛第21條之一我們已經那個文字修正通過所以第51條之一的這個罰則的部分對應上面我想是不是就比照前面第21條之一的那個罰則的部分那那個法務部可不可以補充說明一下剛剛的兩個"},{"start":15589.042,"end":15617.922,"text":"主席、各位委員大家好關於剛才幾位委員所提的一些疑問在這邊說明第一問題就是說關於首次的認定現行法本來在現行法裡面就已經有規定首次不罰的規定了所以這個在主管機關來講的話要認定首次應該不是太大的問題這個法已經施行一段時間了然後第二個就是"},{"start":15619.102,"end":15619.442,"text":"主管機關或檢察機關的舉證責任"},{"start":15641.869,"end":15669.42,"text":"就是說在未來在執法的過程當中要如何去舉證證明說他明明知道這個是一個保育類野生動物這個可能會有事實上的困難因為我們在捕獵的過程當中比方說他用陷阱的話我不可能預先知道我會捕獲什麼東西或者是他在很遠的距離用獵槍來瞄準那他也不一定能夠判斷說我要打的對象就是保育類"},{"start":15670.2,"end":15697.576,"text":"那也就是說加上明知的這個要件之後的話很可能就是說因為舉證上的困難以至於說這樣子的一個處罰規定很可能就會打不到怕會打不到主管機關所希望達到的政策目的所以加上明知這兩個字的話等於就是說在要件上非常的嚴格了將來在舉證上也就產生了會比較大的困難然後另外就是"},{"start":15698.786,"end":15699.846,"text":"來 曾天才委員"},{"start":15727.662,"end":15754.865,"text":"那個法務部要聽清楚我的無論是農業部或是大法官先聽清楚都已經講得很清楚實務上獵捕野生動物無法預知所獵捕到的是一般類還是保育類尤其是晚上"},{"start":15756.532,"end":15782.702,"text":"除有特殊例外除有特殊例外所以我是才會說這個屬保育類的部分加個名字那個一般類的不用加就是屬保育類的那個部分加個名字兩個字"},{"start":15784.437,"end":15801.465,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及�"},{"start":15811.913,"end":15840.245,"text":"所以這個部分在執行上應該不是那麼困難農業部可不可以說明一下我知道委員你在意是說他列補的動物他不會知道是明知那我們是不是回到51條之一的我們這邊的序文我們今天序文他在列補宰殺動物的前提這個案子最主要的前半段他違反的是什麼是因為你用售假"},{"start":15840.825,"end":15844.149,"text":"綠埔動物綠埔動物綠埔動物綠埔動物綠埔動物綠埔動物綠埔動物"},{"start":15860.666,"end":15882.016,"text":"所以如果委員擔心那我們是不是在前面那個使用的概念上去寫說他因為基於王長長擅自使用那個第19條第一項第一款第7款第8款鎖定禁止的方式就是說你的使用是擅自使用是明知你明知他不可以用像售假你不可以用那你一定要去用"},{"start":15882.896,"end":15900.927,"text":"所以他其實不是在講後面的獵捕的動物獵捕動物他重點是在前面你使用什麼方式他處罰是因為你用這個方式去獵捕對我知道可是這個案子在51條之一被罰的是因為你用這種方式所以才會被罰"},{"start":15904.172,"end":15932.602,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":15935.145,"end":15949.138,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":15950.765,"end":15971.686,"text":"然後他用獵槍,符合啊。對不對?他符合用獵槍啊。他已經核准或者是符合被查的要件的,他不小心去獵到保育類動物,這是不會罰的。只要他通報,就不會被罰。這邊會處罰的是他沒有經過申請。"},{"start":15975.43,"end":15988.421,"text":"等於他就直接去列補,然後又去列補的保育類才會進入到剛剛講的這個部分,在這一款來處理。所以只要是有依法申請的,他誤補是不會被罰的。"},{"start":15992.679,"end":15999.125,"text":"所以,如果照你們這樣的說明,這個就符合到剛剛那個鄭天才委員講的大法官的那個解釋嗎?對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對,對"},{"start":16018.878,"end":16028.125,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第11屆第2會期基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田"},{"start":16037.322,"end":16064.71,"text":"第一項51條之一第一項原住民族基於其傳統文化記憶或非營利自用獵捕、宰殺或利用野生動物使用第19條第一項第一款第7款或第8款所定禁止之方式或違反第21條之一第二項所定辦法中有關申請核准或被查之情形得獵捕、宰殺或利用保育類野生動物之"},{"start":16065.39,"end":16085.695,"text":"必要情形、獵捕方式、獵捕動物之種類、數量、獵捕期間、區域或管理之規定者,依下列規定處罰,但首次違反者不罰。一、屬保育類野生動物處清台幣2萬元以上、10萬元以下罰還,不是用第41條規定。二、"},{"start":16087.895,"end":16096.061,"text":"屬一般類野生動物儲新台幣1000元以上、1萬元以下罰還,不是用第49條第一項第二款規定。"},{"start":16103.952,"end":16104.613,"text":"負貸決議負貸決議負貸決議負貸決議"},{"start":16125.669,"end":16149.373,"text":"委員鄭天才所提附帶決議有介於套索等列據在原住民族傳統文化具有不可替代性未來農業部依據《野生動物保育法》第19條第一項第8款依法公告其他禁止列補野生動物之方法應先會商原住民族委員會後公告此外農業部應會同原住民族"},{"start":16149.833,"end":16169.081,"text":"委員會透過自主狩獵管理輔導團隊及地方原民行政體系競速至原住民族地區辦理說明會將資訊充分傳達部落族人了解。宣讀完畢。好,這個遵照辦理。好,來,那我們就照案通過。"},{"start":16173.394,"end":16178.818,"text":"第19條條文照行政院提案的條文通過第21條、21條之一、第51條之一條文以及修正動議均照協商條文通過第25條維持現行條文審查會保留附帶決議一項策案然後有新增一個附帶決議"},{"start":16201.896,"end":16212.28,"text":"其餘條文均照審查會審查結果通過,通過新增附帶決議以上。好,如果沒有問題的話,我們今天協商就到這邊結束。謝謝大家,謝謝。"},{"start":16232.198,"end":16252.652,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16264.377,"end":16291.708,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休"},{"start":16303.393,"end":16306.195,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。​​"},{"start":16328.564,"end":16351.481,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事"},{"start":16362.843,"end":16364.698,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。厲"},{"start":16366.089,"end":16395.442,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金"},{"start":16397.393,"end":16420.106,"text":"農田水利事業基金、農田水利事業基金及農田水利事業基金及農田水利事業基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田水利基金及農田"},{"start":16431.783,"end":16451.52,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":16461.664,"end":16480.136,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16491.34,"end":16519.903,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16528.37,"end":16536.454,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利。"},{"start":16569.926,"end":16583.436,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16593.616,"end":16612.312,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":16617.343,"end":16639.819,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16643.374,"end":16646.015,"text":"維勳,早上的委員的咖啡要收嗎?維勳,早上的委員的咖啡要收嗎?"},{"start":16673.592,"end":16701.149,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休"},{"start":16705.333,"end":16734.886,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休"},{"start":16759.138,"end":16784.028,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16790.32,"end":16800.828,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16820.538,"end":16842.497,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16848.2,"end":16860.908,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16865.964,"end":16879.555,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16881.476,"end":16898.484,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16935.007,"end":16937.649,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":16944.616,"end":16968.99,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16971.203,"end":16991.858,"text":"二、繼續審查農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":16993.148,"end":17019.424,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農"},{"start":17029.258,"end":17054.013,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17062.795,"end":17089.862,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民"},{"start":17092.756,"end":17105.061,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17112.921,"end":17128.161,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17130.952,"end":17156.286,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農"},{"start":17160.238,"end":17177.71,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17179.271,"end":17193.885,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17198.422,"end":17223.045,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17224.138,"end":17250.983,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":17254.146,"end":17279.098,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17289.585,"end":17295.287,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17298.779,"end":17314.845,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17317.289,"end":17343.216,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基"},{"start":17351.156,"end":17371.985,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17374.821,"end":17398.35,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17402.976,"end":17428.299,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17428.968,"end":17454.713,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17455.111,"end":17475.958,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17495.162,"end":17523.993,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及"},{"start":17530.247,"end":17557.753,"text":"二、繼續審查農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17561.578,"end":17583.919,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17585.998,"end":17611.644,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":17635.503,"end":17658.477,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及所屬單位預算部分："},{"start":17667.756,"end":17692.405,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":17693.729,"end":17699.721,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。 »:"},{"start":17719.787,"end":17748.108,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退"},{"start":17757.022,"end":17778.024,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17780.845,"end":17806.538,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":17842.005,"end":17867.21,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":17918.003,"end":17942.19,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":17973.349,"end":17974.129,"text":"來洗一下這池的"},{"start":17975.836,"end":17983.94,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查"},{"start":18015.828,"end":18025.79,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田"},{"start":18203.157,"end":18229.202,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":18276.288,"end":18278.353,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":18311.067,"end":18338.672,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":18359.855,"end":18361.271,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分。 »:"},{"start":18459.895,"end":18471.421,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":18489.008,"end":18515.643,"text":"我的提案包括95、96、98、100有改組決議李委員你要改組決議是吧對我的是105案那這個大概就是提升地方的創生計畫我們希望他在精進的來做實際的情形來做一個編列預算所以可以改組決議好"},{"start":18519.733,"end":18537.996,"text":"從第90案到105案我們處理農業發展第4幕的部分。好,在場為沒有要補充或者發言。那第4幕照列。"},{"start":18540.316,"end":18542.517,"text":"處理106到114社會保險義務第7目的部分我的110跟11我會改組決議在場委員有沒有要發言要我補充李委員106"},{"start":18569.622,"end":18587.889,"text":"到114社會保險第7目的部分我的案子是112那有關這個農業的職業災害的相關這個業務我們要保障是農民的整個職業的安全在113年的7月底我們統計大概加保的是341739人"},{"start":18590.35,"end":18615.655,"text":"大概在我們這個從業人數大概是67%我們是希望我們的農業部可以加強這個宣傳的這個力道來維護農民的職業安全的保障所以我先凍結原來是凍結150萬我改凍結100萬好那李委員整個幕凍100萬好不好好那順便報告好第7幕部分凍結100萬區域照列"},{"start":18618.234,"end":18618.874,"text":"第8目115-119農民福利這個我也改組決議"},{"start":18637.455,"end":18658.681,"text":"主席,農民退休儲蓄金非常重要,就是關心著我們農民,他們在未滿65歲以前,我們應該要月提繳農民的退儲金,到113年的6月底,只有大概佔27%的人數來投保,這表示我們農業部在這方面的宣傳不利。"},{"start":18659.221,"end":18684.586,"text":"那為了要讓農民的整個權益不會受到損失我們希望要提升農民家寶的這個誘因所以我在這部分是要凍結一百萬請他們書面報告李委員我們是不是整個幕凍一百萬好不好好來第八幕凍結一百萬提出書面報告時的動之取決於好主決議一百二算那個農業部意見"},{"start":18688.422,"end":18690.523,"text":"123遵照辦理123遵照辦理"},{"start":18712.251,"end":18735.216,"text":"建議修正文字。你們有沒有跟張文溫溝通過?有溝通過沒有?沒有。你們要先去溝通。因為他沒有讓我們去拜會。沒關係,這個先保留。好。1、2、5。1、2、5遵照辦理。照案通過1、2、6。遵照辦理。照案通過1、2、7。遵照辦理。照案通過1、2、8。遵照辦理。照案通過1、2、9。遵照辦理。照案通過1、3、0。遵照辦理。照案通過1、3、1。遵照辦理。照案通過1、3、2。遵照辦理。"},{"start":18739.974,"end":18760.52,"text":"133、134、135、136、138、137、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138、138"},{"start":18762.335,"end":18777.417,"text":"最後一段這邊原此請林業及自然保育署禁訴於114年上半年完成赤富有蛇塔班黑熊保育行動計畫公告。好同意修正"},{"start":18779.133,"end":18781.955,"text":"132修正通過139遵照辦理141遵照辦理142遵照辦理143委員同意改組決議改組組決議"},{"start":18805.276,"end":18805.436,"text":"144 依改組決議"},{"start":18828.712,"end":18846.613,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":18848.366,"end":18867.82,"text":"主席他如果有修正文字要請他唸出來嘛我們也可以參考阿如果沒有溝通我就先保留不處理也要尊重提案文字所以沒有溝通就不處理吧對我就先保留齁你們這個照理說你們有時間提案出來你們又要怎麼修正要跟提案委員去溝通149先保留來14150軍造辦理長安通關151建議修正文字"},{"start":18877.253,"end":18894.246,"text":"有沒有跟陳立法院委員去溝通過?有沒有講?保留。152。152。那個委員同意修正文字這樣子。好,怎麼修正?怎麼修正?已經修正了。"},{"start":18896.316,"end":18925.111,"text":"這個各幕僚你們的幕僚作業有待加強喔152152齁在倒數第二行齁那個警察警察後面有寫一個或替代方案研議可行性這樣子加一個替代方案那委員以同意替代方案沒有就有替代方案啊你文字也有替代方案啊沒有他是在倒數第二行你在文字先修改文字先送上來的齁"},{"start":18926.943,"end":18935.216,"text":"跟楊詠英委員溝通過嗎?已經溝通過了。152案就照案通過。案修正通過。153?委員同意改組決議。遵照辦理。"},{"start":18938.342,"end":18940.503,"text":"153、154、155、156、157、158、159、161、161委員同意修正文字正委員同意嗎?正天堂委員?你怎麼修正?"},{"start":18970.137,"end":18985.215,"text":"這是倒數第三行原提案請農業部與教育部及勞動部研議原住民、農民、健康保險、被保險人與農俠時間擔任各級學校"},{"start":18988.837,"end":18993.582,"text":"足以教學資源人員得以實際到校授課日數參加勞工保險。"},{"start":19014.997,"end":19015.057,"text":"163、164、165、166、167、168、169新增兩個"},{"start":19038.063,"end":19038.383,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19038.383,"end":19039.083,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19039.083,"end":19040.204,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19040.204,"end":19040.764,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19040.764,"end":19041.704,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19041.704,"end":19042.385,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19042.385,"end":19042.845,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19042.845,"end":19043.285,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19043.285,"end":19044.205,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19044.205,"end":19045.846,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19045.846,"end":19046.166,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19046.166,"end":19046.486,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19046.486,"end":19047.627,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19047.627,"end":19048.887,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19048.887,"end":19049.508,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19049.508,"end":19050.728,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19050.728,"end":19051.128,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19051.128,"end":19053.649,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19053.649,"end":19054.25,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?"},{"start":19054.25,"end":19054.55,"text":"1691、1692,大家有沒有意見?1691、16"},{"start":19056.408,"end":19084.347,"text":"那個張家俊委員跟那個陳庭飛的124、149、150委員的這個主決議你們趕快去修正去跟委員溝通一下盡快我希望在這個在今天下午五點半之前好來回顧出來一到七的部分"},{"start":19086.752,"end":19111.285,"text":"一到七的部分各位在場委員是不是就按照往例來辦理的就是稍微協商的時候一定在院會院長主持的時候一定會有一個統三的標準我們是不是就先照列好 異目照列部分不處理完那個主決議保留的部分趕快去溝通我希望在五點半之前我能夠把這個處理掉來 第二個繼續"},{"start":19114.747,"end":19136.525,"text":"這個林業跟自然保育署來170170政府不在我們照列171賴薇姆在照列172到175林業管理的部分有賴瑞榮等委員提案172到175那個政委你要不要補充一下"},{"start":19145.25,"end":19157.493,"text":"那是不是照你的建議動200萬?好,同意。不是,你就是172到175啦,因為這個只有...就討論政天才委員的案啦,不在場的我們就不討論了啦。"},{"start":19159.977,"end":19175.073,"text":"好 那就175 照鄭天才委員提案 凍結200萬提出書面報告者的通知那個主席 對不起 我可以請一下那個林業署齁因為我們現在有很多那個動物阿其實它不是危害人類 它是危害農業阿"},{"start":19176.354,"end":19200.801,"text":"我們那個偏遠山區我想鄭委員應該也很清楚我們很多山區的農民他種的農作物人都還沒有吃已經全部被猴子踩光光吃光光那這一類防治猴害的這一些防治辦法我覺得可能還是我們還是要再想辦法過去說築個圍牆築個電網看起來已經都沒有什麼效益了我覺得可能"},{"start":19201.181,"end":19217.457,"text":"大家還是要及時廣益一下看怎麼樣去處理否則農民種的農作物永遠他們還沒有收成頭子都已經全部吃光了。 是這部分我們一直都在每年都有新增的這個補助的項目啦我們也會持續再進進有新的方法。"},{"start":19218.971,"end":19229.078,"text":"好,我們就處理176到201案,零頁發展的部分。176到201。來。在場委員有沒有意見?我的部分改組決議。我的1186改組決議。然後,我1981改組決議。呃,呂委,你要改組決議是嗎?"},{"start":19249.758,"end":19253.225,"text":"主席我的案子是180可不可以請他們說明一下好180請這個署長說明"},{"start":19256.411,"end":19282.059,"text":"好 這個跟委員報告埃及聖環看起來好像說我們那個績效不彰事實上是因為我們在前年的時候已經移除了九成的那個埃及聖環所以導致說去年那個能夠再移除的數量就很少事實上全台灣的埃及聖環現在已經不到50隻了那我們現在還在加緊要把這個最後50隻想辦法要這個移除掉"},{"start":19282.199,"end":19302.232,"text":"您們怎麼知道有50隻?最後剩下50隻?我們這個部分跟全台灣的兩會他們有在同步都會去進行調查。比如說今天他們有看到的會回報。那所以這個部分我們是相當...所以你要盡快,你們大概有什麼時間把它抓完?這個部分呢,因為剩下50隻它是最精銳的。那我們現在也還要再..."},{"start":19304.302,"end":19326.302,"text":"我們現在在想各種方式啦。你要跟經濟的做法,重點是不能停下來。你要經濟的做法提供出來。你不講這個經濟部隊,我還不要動靜。好,動靜。那這樣子,我改組決議,然後書面報告好不好。你改組決議。組決議,然後書面報告。那怕經濟部隊有點害怕。對啊,需要書面報告。經濟的書面報告。這個我們照列啦,那提出書面報告。好,謝謝。"},{"start":19333.191,"end":19354.457,"text":"李委員 這一幕還是要凍結了好 凍500萬好不好李委員 那個按照李育齡委員的提案啦齁 這個林業發展強勢經濟外來 外來入侵你要改主決是吧沒有 就書面報告凍結500萬好不好好啦 凍結500萬改書面報告啦齁 齁 500萬對對對 就是李育齡委員提案啦對啊"},{"start":19362.423,"end":19388.353,"text":"那就一直到201啊。整個墓啊,整個墓啊,是不是凍一千萬啊?按照理念整個墓啦,整個墓,整個墓啊。第200案啦,我200案是凍結三千欸。阿這樣子啊,整個墓凍結兩千萬啦齁,整個墓凍結兩千萬。"},{"start":19392.252,"end":19393.635,"text":"欸 整個兩千萬還蠻多的欸好啦 凍結兩千萬啦 齁兩千萬 那個就因為"},{"start":19402.5,"end":19425.359,"text":"謝謝主席我對於這個凍結的數字我沒有太大的意見但是我想這個林業發展的部分有幾個我還是要請這個林業署是不是能夠持續做滾動式檢討第一個是你們的保安林保安林是不是能夠有一些適度的解編的這個狀態可以去處理因為現在其實不管是全台灣很多"},{"start":19426.921,"end":19435.388,"text":"基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業特別收入基金及農業"},{"start":19445.077,"end":19465.539,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":19466.96,"end":19491.716,"text":"主席,我補充一下好不好,因為我那200案我剛剛沒有提一下,針對於保育類的動物,他們的計畫還沒有很完備,是不是這方面也提出書面報告?好,提出書面報告。好,第4幕的部分,動員2000萬,提出書面報告。各委員提出要求的書面報告,林業署一定要確實提供。提出書面報告使得動之。"},{"start":19492.898,"end":19510.999,"text":"好,繼續處理組決議。 202案。 呃,證照辦理。 專案通過203案。 呃,建議那個文字修正。 繼續,你念。好,然後倒數,最後一段的倒數1、2。 最後一段。"},{"start":19512.04,"end":19523.035,"text":"第二段的那個第二行那個綠葉溪有那個緊急處理對策然後針對造成生態破壞之外來入侵種如白鴨"},{"start":19525.947,"end":19551.487,"text":"百貨卻取、斑腿、樹丫等生物能代農業部、林業部及自然保育署,然後準備把它刪除,整治計畫改正、因應規劃。按照修正文字通過。你的修正文字要送上來。好。203案。203案。在哪邊?你修正文字趕快收。遵照辦理。好。這案通過。205案。遵照辦理。這案通過。203案。遵照辦理。這案通過。來。"},{"start":19554.744,"end":19578.392,"text":"接下來屬於農村發展及水土保守署,這水保署很重要喔。第三幕的部分,我的改成主決議,213改成主決議。那因為水保署對地方是太重要太重要了。我建議委員會是不是就預算照列。好來,那個李議員。"},{"start":19580.334,"end":19600.403,"text":"我的案身是209案我們看到我們應該很多的土石流跟山坡地我們的監督必須要加強以減少這個災害的發生那尤其在98年的第一期到預算的最後的已經辦到第5期特定的水保這個計畫跟那個廢紙的準則都沒有非常的明確"},{"start":19601.203,"end":19620.435,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":19620.435,"end":19639.565,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":19639.844,"end":19643.406,"text":"一千萬好不好?好,我們就按照第一議員的提案,212案,這個凍結一千萬,提出說明報告,捨得動之。"},{"start":19652.574,"end":19681.612,"text":"那個我對於你現在在講水保水保的部分對207到214好我現在這個這個案子齁其實跟水保跟林業屬有相關的就是其實是有聯動啦齁在六龜甲仙地區有非常多林斑地上面你們有做水保有做沉砂池可是呢最近的這幾年來因為地質的不穩定跟雨下太大齁你們上面的沉砂池都已經崩落"},{"start":19682.412,"end":19682.632,"text":"議員提供的議題是"},{"start":19711.867,"end":19739.735,"text":"那個地質已經非常已經非常的脆弱一天到晚只要有下雨就會有很嚴重的土石流那這個部分我可能是不是請部長也加強督促協助一下好嗎?我想謝謝委員這個我們會針對就是山坡地還有下雨的這個農村水保署的這個之間的整合兩邊要同步去檢視我們會重新來檢視對因為水保署說那個是屬於林班地是屬於林業署的所以他們不能去做那倒是這個土石流"},{"start":19740.695,"end":19742.616,"text":"二一五改成改列三三一之一 二一六"},{"start":19773.032,"end":19785.818,"text":"來,召喚通過217、召喚通過218、召喚通過219、召喚通過220、召喚通過221、召喚通過220、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過221、召喚通過"},{"start":19803.439,"end":19830.725,"text":"2、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、38、39、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、"},{"start":19831.055,"end":19840.7,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．非營業部分．"},{"start":19855.228,"end":19870.126,"text":"那茶開廠自己講說適合種茶樹的地方是PH4.5到5.5啊你說要做茶開廠結果你自己選的這個地方的土壤完全沒辦法種茶那不是很奇怪嗎這到底是背後有什麼樣的原因是不是有政治凌駕專業的一個問題"},{"start":19872.029,"end":19886.271,"text":"然後甚至你們自己在講說這個地方確實不適合種植茶樹所以我要改成咖啡或溫網栽培那邊可以種咖啡或溫網栽培嗎我覺得很奇怪而且你名字叫茶開場然後你又改種咖啡溫網這不是很好笑嗎"},{"start":19888.995,"end":19902.934,"text":"我們現在的茶開廠已經改成茶機飲料作物改良廠所以他除了茶葉以外還有其他的飲料作物都在做所以這個部分我想後續我們針對土壤的部分茶雖然說比較酸但是其他作物有的土壤是可以用的"},{"start":19904.594,"end":19905.394,"text":"除了咖啡之外,其實草本目前有很多"},{"start":19919.83,"end":19936.068,"text":"像行局啦或者是相關的這個外售局的部分都可以那木本的部分我目前也跟這個臨時所這邊在合作開發比如說土肉櫃或者相關的這些東青這些木本的植物都可以來做我們臺灣未來茶飲的這部分"},{"start":19936.308,"end":19952.004,"text":"可是那你們當初講說就是甚至最早的時候還要把我桃園總長搬下去然後後來又講說名義上那就是名義不是不太對嗎你如果講他營業要做實驗基地或什麼那我覺得那至少還會有創新或什麼那大家還會比較支持但你明日叫查開場做的事情都不太一樣蠻奇怪的"},{"start":19952.581,"end":19969.229,"text":"不過我想跟委員報告我歷次已經講到就是茶開場本身在嘉義那邊設廠它不是把總廠遷移我們是用雙總廠的概念因為現在的茶葉有一部分是高山茶市在南部然後南部那邊也會著重到其他的飲料作物的這些品項的開發"},{"start":19970.33,"end":19996.083,"text":"好啦 這個這樣子好了啦我們凍結五百萬啦然後你要提詳細的書面說明書面報告好要經同意我們會同意之後再來解凍所以我們旅運委員也非常關心好不好這事關我們桃園的我們桃園的權益不能受損這個我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":19997.184,"end":20004.915,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":20009.164,"end":20009.404,"text":"花蓮區農業改良廠"},{"start":20027.507,"end":20047.734,"text":"這件事情而已我看不到你們在行銷推廣所謂的行銷推廣不是你去賣茶而是說你要如何鼓勵農民轉做這一些比如說你們現在在推台灣山茶嘛但是這一些行銷跟推廣教育推廣的這個部分我其實看不到"},{"start":20048.814,"end":20056.077,"text":"2、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":20072.583,"end":20098.072,"text":"在少用藥這個適量施肥的狀態之下增加產量但是他的咖啡或者是他的茶葉種出來之後你們應該是還要有培育一組人是在負責做烘茶或者是烘咖啡或者是這些發酵等等把它後續的製作的那個部分跟種植的部分是不是能夠切開但是我目前沒有看到你們"},{"start":20098.852,"end":20115.041,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":20122.363,"end":20140.538,"text":"議員會議員會議"},{"start":20142.435,"end":20159.53,"text":"你可不可以介紹一下漁業署署長啊天天漁業署針對於代理署長王振芳現在署長明天才會到任因為我們最近高雄辦很多大海開吃但是我從來沒有看過署長出現所以我還沒出現還到任了沒有明天到任明天到任明天是誰啊"},{"start":20161.129,"end":20161.189,"text":"王茂誠"},{"start":20186.195,"end":20203.527,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":20212.458,"end":20236.473,"text":"那因為我們現在看到整個海洋的變化非常的大不管是近海還是遠洋那如果我們依照目前的作為要讓我們的這個海洋漁業資源合理利用跟管理如果依照目前會沒有辦法與時俱進因為觀光在我們台中港"},{"start":20237.577,"end":20265.393,"text":"全部外海全部都是綠能全部在那邊所以很多人質疑說我們的漁產是不是會減少現在沒有人有辦法給我們講答案所以我想聽聽說你們在這個漁業科技研究的這個部分你到底做了哪些那你因應目前整個西海線"},{"start":20267.35,"end":20280.479,"text":"的海洋生態都已經變化這麼大的一個情況之下那我們怎麼因應請做說明好我們這個邱委員那個發言之後我們一起說明邱委員"},{"start":20283.302,"end":20299.061,"text":"謝謝主席因為我想我們談到漁業署整體的大家都講漁業很重要但是我們現在只看得到你們對很多的漁業管理管理上面做得很徹底而且管制得非常嚴格任何有一點閃失都不行"},{"start":20299.702,"end":20314.152,"text":"包括很多現在在推動的所謂的漁電共生的這些設施啊如果遇到天災啦水災啦風災啦很多的這一些展延或者是網開一面大概你們的管理上面都說不行"},{"start":20314.972,"end":20333.82,"text":"但是今天早上那個蔡議委也特別提到你比如說對於虱目魚的價格對於漁產我剛提我之前也提到了這個所謂的洗產地或者是養殖漁業的價格崩跌的這個部分到目前為止其實我們沒有看到漁業署有太多的"},{"start":20335.094,"end":20350.674,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":20351.538,"end":20366.886,"text":"我來說明好了,就是漁業組的部分我覺得兩個事情必須去改進的。第一個就是說,就像委員說的,過去都是以管理為主,那我是希望是以服務的角度去做管理的作為。那這個部分,特別是像虱目魚,有一些產交失衡的時候,都是到"},{"start":20367.806,"end":20393.799,"text":"發生的後期才開始去處理那個速度都太慢所以我已經要求漁業署這邊針對每一年可能會會有產銷適合的那個季節有沒有不同的漁種不同的季節應該在這個之前就有一個完整的規劃這個部分我已經要由漁業署來來執行的這樣的一個部分那後續我想我們會來會更積極的進一步改進從從服務的角度去做管理那第二個部分就是剛才講的那些科技計畫的部分我也發現說整個漁業的"},{"start":20396.48,"end":20422.135,"text":"科技研究它相對於農糧的部分是比較弱的它只有一個漁業水事所在支撐但是水事所的研究也沒有有時候沒辦法match到我們的產業的部分那現在唯一的我們現在在積極的協調有一些像海洋大學其他的學校的部分能夠來加入這個團隊然後從海就是現在氣候暖化以後這些海面的這些魚的資源有沒有魚的這個漁場的部分已經在變動了"},{"start":20422.995,"end":20444.684,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":20445.325,"end":20461.269,"text":"愚業科技研發很重要,但是就讓你們能夠做好我支持楊瓊英文的提案,我們是不是用凍結?我們是第3幕都一起嗎?不不,1幕、第1幕、第1幕。現在是第幾幕?231到239。231到239,好。OK。"},{"start":20468.268,"end":20489.788,"text":"好 我們就是不是第一幕的部分我們凍結300萬提出疏通報告時的動之對不起主席我可不可以再問一個小問題就是說你們在科技管理的部分魚跟農的比例上面在預算的分配科技的這個區塊魚業跟農業的比重上是怎麼分有沒有一些比較"},{"start":20490.885,"end":20513.473,"text":"那個漁業的部分大概是……我們這樣講齁就是我們的科技預算大概50億然後其中有大概26億左右齁是由我們試驗單位我們所屬的試驗單位在用的那這26億裡面大部分是農糧的部分比較多那漁業的部分大概只有一億那後續後續我想我們會來逐步來做一個調整啦"},{"start":20516.194,"end":20531.607,"text":"因為漁業的部分在國會審查的時候經常被刪的幅度非常大啦那一部分可能自己的計畫寫得不夠好所以這個部分我將後續來加強因為漁業本身資源太少所以部長我現在這樣問了你們就會出一個很大的狀況你這個如果對養殖漁業包括自衛選區的這些養殖漁業的漁民就會"},{"start":20536.09,"end":20540.413,"text":"所以你這個嚴重失衡啊我稍微特別問這個問題就是說漁業的科技管理的部分"},{"start":20563.085,"end":20587.695,"text":"養魚也是需要一些技術嘛包括水溫包括各種所以我覺得這個比重上面可能還要再往上調一點然後你要讓漁民知道我們對他不只管理我們還有還有很大部分是協助好不好這個邱議員講得非常的道理換寡又換不均換寡你整個不管農業加上漁業才26億結果漁業的部分你只分配到1億"},{"start":20588.815,"end":20615.262,"text":"我拿這個如何去面對我江東富饒啊那你們這要好好的把它面對這個問題解決這個問題我希望現在明年度啊如果我還可以的話我再爭取預算審查的招委啊我一定要嚴格監督你們這個預算的幣要做大我希望最起碼你到達31的規模逾越的部分啊你就起碼要占"},{"start":20616.718,"end":20627.546,"text":"五分之一啦。五分之一啦。三百萬。閉幕作業三百萬。提出順便報告,使得動之。好。來,第三幕的部分,240到27。240到27。漁業管理的部分。"},{"start":20636.877,"end":20661.762,"text":"我覺得這個是不是我們就不要凍結了啦好不好我們就就支持啦來來來不好意思我我這個那個楊全英委員之後李議員本期的提案是245跟247黨之一樂剛剛我們也共同討論了也的確"},{"start":20663.294,"end":20690.947,"text":"我們西海岸的部分現在自己第一個政府的預算根本不成比例所以讓漁民真的也不知道要怎麼樣第二個就是說海洋的生態已經被我們整個形態都改變了那這個改變我總是認為說這個淡海就是我們漁民的那你幫我破壞掉你幫我改變之你怎麼協助我"},{"start":20693.473,"end":20708.252,"text":"海洋的溫度一直在提高。你們應該去研議到底這樣會影響多少我們的漁產。我們現在說內海3海里,要不要往外擴?不知道。這一些都是必須專家"},{"start":20710.898,"end":20728.855,"text":"專業的知識跟領域但是我們政府應該要告訴民眾啊我們還是維持五六十年前這個邏輯很奇怪這個政府應該要跟目前的現況去做調整部長你應該贊成嗎所以我具體建議"},{"start":20730.097,"end":20756.443,"text":"第一個,像我們台中,我們西海岸、岸、岸、岸這個新地開市、香山開市一直搞,搞到昏臨,那那個整個,都是那個,那個那個那個發電的嘛,對不對啊,外海部分啊,那你也看到那滾滾啊,那滾滾你聽,吼,那個聲音就大,那到底會不會影響到我們海洋資源,不知道。"},{"start":20757.779,"end":20783.031,"text":"告訴我們說不會但是大家都高度質疑所以我很希望這個我們的國家是沒有疑問的應該這些專業的你要去把他瞭解到底你要叫人家去養殖你的人權行動你是要怎麼做你要先把先把你的範圍去理清楚啊你根本連範圍都理不清楚你要怎麼做我高度質疑欸"},{"start":20784.492,"end":20785.093,"text":"對不對?"},{"start":20785.093,"end":20801.349,"text":"所以我具體建議,因為我本來是要檢列28、檢列28這個12億、4億,我希望要讓你們去精進啦所以我是這樣建議主席台喔,我們要有一個警惕嚇阻作用請你們去把它研擬出來,到底你的運動的應用在哪裡"},{"start":20802.33,"end":20815.425,"text":"你的農田水利的認定要不要去調整我們都不知道那你的養殖要這樣因為現在很多都在沿海啊往海水引進進來啊你看看這樣子會不會影響你引進來的會不會影響如果有影響我們要怎麼樣去提升我們的技能"},{"start":20820.71,"end":20845.879,"text":"這個都很重要啊 這個不是一個漁民他可以做的 是政府要做的所以這個部分呢我就建議啦 簡略100萬讓你們去盡盡安妮寶我剛剛所說的那個方案到底那個有應用到嗎 國有都沒有啦好不好 你們去告訴我們溫度有沒有影響海裡要不要調整 要怎麼樣協助我們引進海水要養殖的"},{"start":20846.639,"end":20873.954,"text":"不然農民、農民的肥皿都不知道要怎麼弄啊。你的人權你有什麼人權?你沒辦法跟我們合作,要什麼人權?好不好?以上就言。好,這個頗為中肯。這個,因為您是有漁港嘛齁?我知道。那個玉琳那邊有漁港,我那邊有漁港。兩位未來,還有那個邱英文,跟這個,你聽我講,他們未來可能當市長他們也要管漁港啊。"},{"start":20875.678,"end":20878.282,"text":"所以這個不是亞洲問題,我是覺得要照例要及時,因為100萬要及時,我是這麼認為的。"},{"start":20890.27,"end":20892.631,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":20910.199,"end":20931.956,"text":"我們都是希望我們的各縣市有漁港的都能夠更好就是因為更好才要請你們精進那尤其我要提的就是我們這個漁業的管理針對於近海、臨海的管理更加的重要不管是澎湖還是金門他們去捕撈的時候發生了一些漁業的糾紛你們就應該要站出來幫我們的漁民爭取權益"},{"start":20935.879,"end":20955.265,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":20956.166,"end":20982.623,"text":"中油的公司在那邊做一些工程讓他們的漁網被割破了讓他整個海底的一個生態都被改變因為海流的關係這影響他們的那個生計為什麼因為漁獲量一直減少不知道約束你們有沒有做這些統計漁獲量減少等於生計也減少對不對那你們要怎麼樣幫忙"},{"start":20984.656,"end":20990.331,"text":"因為他們的工程問題,你有去了解他們的苦嗎?那要怎麼做呢?"},{"start":20993.033,"end":21019.02,"text":"這個我們都有開會協調過你們有去追蹤、去了解、去做嗎?這個完全同意李議員委員我有感同身受那個威海計畫他在那邊施工支持國防計畫但是你不能損及漁民的權益你越屬要幫漁民爭取權益不能只聽國防部國防部當然國防建設我可以理解但是你漁民權益不能因為國防建設受到損害"},{"start":21020.218,"end":21042.859,"text":"這個漁業署要加強作為,特別是針對李玉玲委員還有紫光、Vito受到這個危害計畫影響的整個...所以他們的護漁計畫要做一個報告出來吧?好,那凍結五百萬,第三幕漁業管理凍結五百萬提出書面報告史的凍結。我都念到原本口子不清了。"},{"start":21045.228,"end":21068.934,"text":"主席,因為我剛剛有聽到您英明的說明,對,因為台中港是全世界十大港口之一,那我們現在都變形了啦,尤其在西碼頭那裡,它全部都是紅葉嘛,那一直在擴往外,所以我們的漁場一直在減少,所以我剛剛說的要請你們去研議的,你必須納入"},{"start":21070.294,"end":21095.006,"text":"在整個西海線當中你影響了多少的面積我們漁民很可憐投訴無門那你影響了多少面積那它的影響度是怎麼樣那你海岸線要怎麼樣去做調整我覺得我們的政府漁業署有責任要幫助我們的漁民要不然你說現在大家都都是綠能綠能綠能綠能就像英明的召集人說的"},{"start":21095.946,"end":21112.318,"text":"國防也好、綠能也好你必須要以漁民的權益這個是基本功啊你連基本功都沒有了那臺灣怎麼會幸福呢?好不好?你一直點頭你要幫我納入我現在台中港那裡投訴無門兩波雙"},{"start":21115.1,"end":21119.082,"text":"第四目也是漁業發展,主要是漁港的建設。我想這個部分,我們都有漁港,我那邊就有四個漁港。"},{"start":21136.531,"end":21147.024,"text":"所以是不是還有牽涉到養殖漁業振興計畫,所以我是不是肯定委員會能夠支持第四目約發展預算,是不是可以照列?"},{"start":21148.646,"end":21158.05,"text":"主席,我可以講話嗎?我感覺你是在發委員,是經濟委員會的職位,你應該是要討論這個內容。這不管藍綠白都有提案,你應該聽聽我們這裡的意見。對,這裡的主席建議,你都不聽我們的話,不叫我們講話,我們要走,你一定做結論,我們到底是要聽哪一套,不然最不好也要農業補償。現在給我們講一項,"},{"start":21177.577,"end":21199.012,"text":"台灣的漁港的設施落後多少?你這個預算還不足耶?我們全國第一座加熱漁市場就是我從美國引進回來在我們台中港然後開始高雄、基隆開始我很感動但是它會老啊所以我們一起一起在做所以我要呼籲部長"},{"start":21199.873,"end":21206.595,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事"},{"start":21229.062,"end":21239.47,"text":"因為真的我是覺得其實漁港喔加入漁港是可以一日遊兩日遊這樣子專案開這種開這種旅遊點是會非常好有的看有的吃有這個生態的了解這是非常好的他可以創造另外一個產值觀光產值啊對不對應該這個要啦"},{"start":21254.64,"end":21273.377,"text":"所以我身為第一個在台在整個全國第一座政府投資的加入於市場我也感動但是我們也是一直在精進啊對不對好我發言之後完之後再請求應委員這個彌圖與港要不是這筆預算啦權益支持齁過去"},{"start":21275.017,"end":21299.752,"text":"民土漁港相對沒有知名度也沒有很多的假日觀光客現在因為月數這筆預算全力支持分幾期做投入大概有一兩億、好幾千萬、一兩億變成全國魅力漁港第三名有在做人會感受所以這筆預算很重要我們大概聽楊委員這樣講我希望全國的漁港都能夠列入魅力漁港"},{"start":21301.013,"end":21305.962,"text":"與港也是,不管是我們生產的基地,也是我們的觀光的資源。"},{"start":21309.326,"end":21333.24,"text":"好 謝謝英明的主席的才事我想這個我非常同意楊瓊英委員在對於整個漁港建設計畫的支持那我們其實因為剛剛主席特別講到我們高雄的幾個大漁港包括前鎮漁港花費了81億重新去建造但是在去年遭受到國民黨委員大力的抨擊"},{"start":21334.181,"end":21336.683,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分："},{"start":21351.633,"end":21355.977,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．"},{"start":21368.29,"end":21383.39,"text":"這個楊瓊英委員把剛剛的這一段話帶回去給您黨團內部的同仁讓他們可以很清楚的知道我們都一直都在優化台灣的漁港設施不要這個我們的建設的時候就被拿來汙名化以上"},{"start":21385.756,"end":21386.017,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":21401.022,"end":21412.09,"text":"如果有委員要說國民黨的黨員我請你指名你不能把所有大家污衊我們在經濟委員會全力的支持農業產我們所有的這個農業部為什麼要一句話那我們三個是要退席嗎要不要道歉你誤會我的意思的我怎麼誤會"},{"start":21423.779,"end":21424.439,"text":"我哪有講啊?"},{"start":21453.069,"end":21454.669,"text":"我是說你們其他的成員吶!"},{"start":21476.707,"end":21485.172,"text":"你要給我抱歉我是國民黨員你也是國民黨員他也是國民黨員你剛剛沒有講這個話你怎麼可以這樣子我今天經濟委員會全力支持你可以隨便國民黨員怎樣81億我台中港有那麼多嗎我也要給部長講那邊81億我81億就好了啦"},{"start":21499.696,"end":21500.436,"text":"花園、台東都沒有啊,一塊錢都沒有啊。"},{"start":21546.923,"end":21566.099,"text":"已經講了主席容許我剛剛先發言我講了那麼多你們都很贊許我贊許完才說國民黨員怎樣不可以這樣子大家互相尊重第一個全政那裡八十一大家公平我們台中港八十一就好了八點二十一全力支持大家深呼吸做做抄頭轉一轉"},{"start":21578.127,"end":21588.41,"text":"頭轉一轉,頭轉一轉,頭轉一轉,深呼吸,其實這個要是是我不好,沒有把會議主持得很順遂,"},{"start":21603.505,"end":21607.253,"text":"我跟大家致歉這個我主持的會議還不夠還不夠賢俗啊"},{"start":21610.779,"end":21622.206,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":21635.973,"end":21655.017,"text":"國民黨王宏威是國民黨,你剛剛發言常常在講王宏威,可是你是休息之後才講,所以我要求農業部,對於楊瓊儀,我講的是王宏威,不是楊瓊儀。我再講一次,我講的是王宏威,不是楊瓊儀。給人家噁落。"},{"start":21659.418,"end":21677.983,"text":"才在誣衊人家國民黨員!還要我回去跟國民黨員講!我再度之前因為我這個主持會議啊這個賢俗度不夠我道歉我主持會議賢俗度不夠我這個回去好好惡補一下哈"},{"start":21678.843,"end":21679.083,"text":"第4幕"},{"start":21708.901,"end":21709.264,"text":"第4部"},{"start":21716.857,"end":21727.986,"text":"那個預算有沒有意見那個安平漁港的部分你們現在安平漁港到底你們整個規劃的部分然後我們到底有什麼樣的願景拜託再給我們一下你們現在預計的一個規劃方向"},{"start":21739.997,"end":21740.017,"text":"主決議2555"},{"start":21762.892,"end":21772.104,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":21781.723,"end":21802.601,"text":"二六零我們是建請修正文字只是加一個支持高雄市政府好暫照修正文字通過修正文字也要送上來二六一每兩個月改成每季按照修正通過繼續處理動植物防疫檢疫所"},{"start":21805.779,"end":21823.428,"text":"動物職業防疫捷運所是全部集中在第三幕。第三幕的部分從262萬到275萬我們一起處理。提案委員有沒有補充?楊卓銘委員跟下一位李一林委員。"},{"start":21824.665,"end":21842.662,"text":"謝謝主席。楊卿發言本席所提案的是273凍結10%那這個5億多為什麼本席會提議凍結因為現在我們民間有一些困難國外它都是指令金面它有所依據"},{"start":21843.743,"end":21869.301,"text":"但是我們現在就是說很多人因為他工作性質那在整個廣告上面他或許沒有看到沒有注意到所以上次本席在委員會質詢的時候也跟你討論這個議題因為你如果說你沒有去結紮馬上一張單子來就是罰3萬起跳那我們現在服務處接到很多的案件上一次本席也跟你討論過那你們是不是要去廣為宣導"},{"start":21870.742,"end":21887.534,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":21887.534,"end":21907.142,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":21907.222,"end":21917.745,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":21937.21,"end":21958.828,"text":"如果說你們在有電話的因為現在有的個資那你的百分比就是一、二、三、四那還是多數的人還是有疑慮當然你們說我會公佈啊可是很多政府的公佈民眾他因為他的生活所需工作所需他不會看到跟我們早上講的那個現金救助一樣"},{"start":21960.088,"end":21975.853,"text":"所以這個方案到目前為止你們沒有告訴我們什麼樣的方案去解決你不要看那個3萬塊喔很多人來到服務處說我就很愛我這隻腳的啊但是我就是江州啊所以我沒有去啊收到馬上來就是一定罰3萬這有什麼辦法"},{"start":21978.334,"end":21978.874,"text":"現在為請李玉玲委員"},{"start":22005.731,"end":22007.839,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我的提案265案"},{"start":22013.197,"end":22027.607,"text":"265萬是針對於我們紅火蟻的這個案例到現在一直都還沒有全面的一個防疫的這個計畫尤其是像我們桃園將近面積有43,251公頃都超過了其他的縣市的總和所以我們希望它針對於這個病蟲害的這個監測跟風險評估可以做一個書面報告"},{"start":22039.482,"end":22056.028,"text":"還有270案的話就是因為像我們的鳳梨出口到韓國被撿出來這個橡皮蟲這個昆蟲的情形這個就影響了我們的國際形象我們希望這個檢疫署這邊可以做一些精進的一些檢測給我書面報告"},{"start":22058.909,"end":22074.827,"text":"還有271案的話那就是動植物的防疫這個部分我們希望很多的不管是我們國人出國去之後帶回來的一些植物或者其他種子這個部分要主動的來申報檢疫以免在"},{"start":22075.828,"end":22089.428,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":22090.435,"end":22108.443,"text":"好那主席的部分268、269改成這個主決議那我是贊同李玉玲委員的說法那整個動資與防疫檢疫署第三幕的部分是不是總統就凍結500萬李委員凍結500萬提出書面報告那個這個"},{"start":22119.684,"end":22140.265,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":22145.009,"end":22146.892,"text":"除了紅火以外,你們現在所有相關對於我們農村在種植的這樣的一個所謂"},{"start":22163.633,"end":22166.975,"text":"事由你們然後給地方然後地方去做主導是,包括委員我們我們這一個經費"},{"start":22179.183,"end":22201.524,"text":"是整個房檢署的經費包括動物防疫、動物檢疫、植物防疫、植物檢疫還有肉品所以房檢署是以疾病為出發點比如說禽流感發生那我們在平常的時候我們就會建置有消毒水的跟地方去做儲備萬一有發生的時候會拿出來做應用就是整個整體防疫的經費在這個裡面"},{"start":22202.745,"end":22218.591,"text":"對阿那你整理防疫的經費你們是給地方還是你們自己在做處理還是地方有需要給你們那請問KPI你們要怎麼去定是有沒有達到你們預期的效果你怎麼會知道是"},{"start":22218.891,"end":22245.577,"text":"大家記得很好寫,寫下來給你們的資料,它是不是有實質達到他們預期的效果,有沒有真正幫助到第一線的農民,這個是我們需要了解的啊,否則你編了那麼多,雖然這個兩億一千多萬對於你們農業部來講不是很大的錢,可是如果依照在這樣的一個動植物防疫的部分,"},{"start":22246.803,"end":22255.226,"text":"他是獎勵耶,他是獎補助費,所以等於是獎補助費給各縣市政府,對不對?是這樣嗎?"},{"start":22255.226,"end":22271.971,"text":"是。報告委員,這整體的業務費用,譬如說我們計劃執行的剛開始年度的時候就會把經費給地方大家一起來執行,包括動物跟植物。那萬一地方發生疫情的時候,那我們也會再額外的去協助他共同來面對這個疫情。"},{"start":22272.691,"end":22292.878,"text":"所以你這一筆錢是...我來說明好了齁,因為委員實際上我關心的就是說我們很多中央政府的政策是透過地方政府在執行的但是地方政府有時候地方政府不同的地方政府可能他的計畫寫得很好可是他的執行力並不好那怎麼樣有一個有效的管理機制啦我相信委員是關心這個部分現在變成是這樣啊"},{"start":22294.438,"end":22319.621,"text":"所以我想我後面就是說我們等於是邊經費給地方用 對好 那地方誰在控管因為我知道你們是一開始然後就把錢依照他們的防疫章就分下去了好 分下去之後呢誰在控管這個KPI他到底有沒有依照他們預期要給予防疫的部分防治的部分有達到效果我想這樣子 這才是最重要啊 對"},{"start":22320.442,"end":22339.543,"text":"我非常了解委員的一個關心就是說地方政府他執行的這個進度是由我們房間組怎麼樣去控管那如果做不好的時候我們有沒有什麼樣的一個機制去讓他們提升那這個部分我想之前委員曾經提過我也跟早房間組講過就是說我們中央跟地方合作的過程中"},{"start":22340.103,"end":22366.435,"text":"那對於地方的執行效率要有一個整體的一個控管的一個機制那對於比較執行率比較差的部分要去主動的去了解然後針對真的不好的話第二年的經費可能要做一些調整大概會用這樣的方式來處理那你像現在大家最談論最多的綠列C呢綠列C的部分我跟委員報告綠列C過去都是各政府各縣市政府自己做"},{"start":22368.473,"end":22373.454,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．"},{"start":22386.138,"end":22402.374,"text":"也有一些情形,他抓了以後再回過頭再來領,所以我現在變成一個硬面小組,有捕捉的、有監測的、有後面的去化的部分,我把它結合在一起,這樣的話共同房市、各縣市同時共同房市才有它的效果。"},{"start":22402.734,"end":22404.315,"text":"同步同步同步同步同步同步同步"},{"start":22423.941,"end":22447.063,"text":"對,應該是明天,對,他們已經開會,明天是他們會來跟我報告,那之前整個要應變角度。部長我提醒你,現在對於歷列系的部分,大家有很多不同的看法,就是說因為知道你們要訂一個中央處理的原則,所以這個原則你應該請更多在地方學者、專家或是在第一線的人,"},{"start":22448.154,"end":22460.399,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":22472.571,"end":22472.591,"text":"〔記者〕"},{"start":22493.064,"end":22510.12,"text":"應該在第一線綠葉溪有很多已經算是有在做這樣的一個處理那是不是能夠邀請他們把這些資訊做得更好然後能夠訂定更完整的辦法然後解除大家現在對綠葉溪的一個疑慮"},{"start":22510.7,"end":22537.45,"text":"好,謝謝委員。您剛才講的這個東西其實在上兩個禮拜都已經召開了縣市政府還有專家各地方的這些經驗所以他們已經擬定了一個就是根據我剛才的概念就是用共同防治的緊急應變小組那這個小組成立了以後會採用各縣市共同防治的概念從監測、從抓捕到後面的這些抓住以後的一個去化都會有一套完整的SOP去處理"},{"start":22538.61,"end":22546.995,"text":"對,因為你現在在訂齁,這個小細節要注意得非常清楚。好,謝謝聖地委員。接下來請邱毅英委員。聖地委員之後我們來處理。"},{"start":22548.426,"end":22567.145,"text":"好 謝謝主席我簡單兩個問題齁剛剛部長您講到會成立這個所謂的緊急小組齁抓捕這件事情誰去抓這個你跟各地縣市政府是農業局還是他們會結合消防局到底誰去抓流浪狗也要抓濾烈溪也要抓"},{"start":22568.466,"end":22590.934,"text":"候子也要抓很多東西都要抓那你的所謂的這個緊急應變小組到底是誰去抓這個我覺得這個可能還是需要再討論啊你現在講大概看起來很簡單但是實際執行上面就會遇到問題人力的不足跟對於這些動物或者是這些植物的這些認知上面我想這個都還需要很多專業的訓練這是第一點"},{"start":22592.575,"end":22599.745,"text":"第二點動植物的防疫齁比如說我們過去在講荔枝春象以前也是講請大家去抓荔枝春象一隻一塊錢"},{"start":22601.621,"end":22626.449,"text":"那荔枝村巷接下來的防治要怎麼做?貧富小豐到底有沒有效?會不會持續推廣?這件事情我們也還沒有看到防檢局這邊的報告再來琉璃椅這也是一個大問題所以過去只要中秋過後這一段時間大概從南投一路就到六龜這個琉璃椅的問題今年是因為颱風雨水多所以到目前為止琉璃椅沒看到"},{"start":22627.109,"end":22656.253,"text":"但是整個這一些昆蟲阿等等的這一些防治工作我想你們還是要有一些系統性的規劃來做這些防治啦好謝謝委員我想我們後續規劃完了以後我們也會提供給委員齁包括委員關心的這些到底誰抓絕對不會是由消防隊那邊來抓我們會有專業的小組那個人的話也要經過訓練不是任何人都去都隨便就可以抓這個部分我想詳細的部分會再提供給委員這是楊委員剛剛提問你還沒有回答楊委員楊委員的是"},{"start":22658.764,"end":22677.956,"text":"動保動保的部分就是有關於寵物登記的部分跟委員報告上次委員關心之後我們回去有請各地方政府盤點目前的做法剛剛有提到的部分大概我們會有簡訊通知跟明信片通知的一個方式來處理事務上現在會遇到的問題就是我們所掌握的資料庫的部分因為"},{"start":22678.556,"end":22678.936,"text":"我再補充一下好不好"},{"start":22703.223,"end":22730.817,"text":"那我還是要建議齁,因為雖然你看,你雖然看到那3萬喔但是對北市來說,它是應用很大,因為我們反省我們自己行政部門第一個,簡訊,它達不到一成第二個,明信片,投到哪裡去沒人知道你們投出去部長,你投出去明信片啊,一般信啊它整個不知道在哪裡,不知道第二個,你還要叫它間接性的再去登記"},{"start":22732.014,"end":22750.328,"text":"民眾我相信沒有幾個知道所以我非常的希望因為最後末端人家收到你沒有來我就是直接就傻滿口的來這個對不起民眾啦因為我們在整個過程當中不管是明信片或者你自己也說了轉介轉燈的部分他達不到啦"},{"start":22751.729,"end":22757.792,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":22767.978,"end":22785.08,"text":"我們要怎麼辦?你至少你要怎麼公告?你透過倫理啊,去公告?還是用什麼樣的方式?你自己拿出來就說,你樣本不跟兩聲,不關財政院道、財政在道啊。我跟委員報告齁,第一個就是說,我們會加強宣導,第二個就是說,"},{"start":22786.081,"end":22809.463,"text":"如果他收到然後不來的時候才去處罰才有意義如果說像我們寄明信片他不一定收到嘛那不一定收到的話你不能說不收到只要我寄的就要罰啦我覺得這個可能會有改善沒有你現在就是給人家罰所以我才會有這麼大意見所以我說我們會來檢討我現在住宅已經不是在A地可是你還是寄到A地A地根本就沒人啊他說你沒來啊所以我就給你罰所以像這個部分我想我們內部會檢討就是說"},{"start":22811.184,"end":22830.198,"text":"我沒有收到然後哪一天被罰的我覺得不公平啊因為我不瞭解所以我如果敘述說我的確沒有收到那你們應該要把那一張不要罰對不對這是我們沒有真的的確沒有啊你這嚴厲的方式啦不要再給我問這個問題好不好因為這樣不好啊這個趕快去嚴厲的一個解決方案好我剛剛已經處理過了第三目的部分是凍結500萬提出署名包括使得凍資來主決276部分"},{"start":22841.638,"end":22844.639,"text":"277278279280281專案報告改書面報告282專案報告改書面報告"},{"start":22869.915,"end":22881.012,"text":"二、八、三、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、遵照辦理。關於通過二、八、四、"},{"start":22886.161,"end":22914.61,"text":"來 李委員主席 這個他們有來跟我說明過了所以我的285、288、291、292都改成主決議然後給我書面報告李委員285、288跟291、292嘛好 事案改為主決議要給李委員報告那我的部分286我也改成主決議那剩下各位委員如果沒有特別意願是不是好 來 楊全英委員"},{"start":22916.181,"end":22932.486,"text":"謝謝主席。楊卿瑩發言。針對於我們部長,我想要請你喔,要加把勁。因為我們這個農業,我們從原先的農會信用部,其實早期的信用部他為我們分擔解憂很多。"},{"start":22933.246,"end":22937.569,"text":"除非營業部分：農民退休基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":22952.299,"end":22968,"text":"當時大概在20年前大概我們算起來將近有800多億所以這個事情就無疾而終農信任部持續那因為現在你如果沒有卡也不可能所以我們現在也讓農會的這個部分信任部也有卡"},{"start":22968.621,"end":22986.51,"text":"但是有一個點也就是我們跟銀行我們受限很多你的檢查是用經檢的標準是用銀行的標準但是你的權利並沒有現在農會很辛苦農會我也要賣離子我也要賣油我也要賣什麼不過一不夠"},{"start":22987.551,"end":23009.224,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":23009.744,"end":23034.961,"text":"我們的信用部可能只有賣幾項的商品啊。他當然經營很困難。當然我們農會信用部要真的感謝他們。他們還是願意就像我早上說的信心就是你可以配合農會,他都知道他的人在哪裡啊。這樣大家都可以知道訊息啊。可是人家給你做苦工,但我不要求說比較多。但是你這個金融的這個部分,你的商品,"},{"start":23035.501,"end":23058.269,"text":"可以怎麼樣去擴大一點我覺得這個是你們要做的功課而不是我檢查這麼嚴格人家50種我不五行我是要怎麼跟人家比是不是這一點你們是不是去研討跟跟經檢單位看怎麼樣對不對不然你都沒錢啊你三期都沒錢你是要那怎麼推廣我這個可以先請那個署長講一下"},{"start":23059.409,"end":23077.807,"text":"是,跟委員報告,那農業衛生部的金融檢查其實我們不是用一般銀行的標準我這邊我每一年農金屬都會跟金管會的檢察局來會商次年度的檢查重點像下個禮拜我們就要談了所以基本上我們是有考量到農業金融的特殊性不是用一般金融的角度來看那第二點這幾年來"},{"start":23079.288,"end":23097.074,"text":"這幾年來其實我們也爭取的開放了很多讓農業會信用部可以承受的業務所以委員您可以看到這幾年來農業會信用部不管在存款放款規模都增加獲利大概也是近20年最高的那預放比率降到0.27%是近年來最低的那我們會尊重那他是一個模範生部長"},{"start":23099.239,"end":23127.412,"text":"他這麼說那你應該要跟他們去開槍闢土他已經這麼有能力不可能說限縮在那裡對不對你看預放比這麼低那存的那麼多錢那存的為什麼那麼多錢其實你越存錢我越料啊對不對我是要貸款出去我才會賺錢啊你要了解這樣啊對不對因為現在比如說我們直轄市的農會它已經都是改變了"},{"start":23128.012,"end":23155.419,"text":"他已經都是在都市當中非常重要的角色所以我們也希望讓我們的不只是農民還有我們的市民可以方便所以這個絕對有檢討的空間對不對我想謝謝委員我們會再請農進署這邊增加那個商品的多樣化剛剛可不可以再開發一些更多的商品這個再請農進署來研議好第三個部分如果沒有其他委員有意見那我們就陳副委員"},{"start":23160.603,"end":23173.273,"text":"今天談到農業金融機構,我們主管的是農業金融使。我請問一下市長,我看了一個新聞,說農業金庫今年已經虧了54億是不是?部長。"},{"start":23181.835,"end":23186.996,"text":"農業金庫虧了54億,是累積的,但是這裡面就是一個要研究的問題。現在臺灣的農會經過上一波整個整頓下來,幾乎的農會都很賺錢。"},{"start":23203.161,"end":23225.06,"text":"而且他放款各部分都非常的小心。我說不到苗栗農會大家都經營得不錯。啊你地方的農會賺錢,啊你總部的農業金庫去虧錢,啊這樣也對啦。你上面的要做比下面的還要好啊。所以這裡面要值得研究還有一點。"},{"start":23226.261,"end":23254.632,"text":"民間的農業民間的農業裡面大家集資去你的獨立董事又不肯放出來一手折騰我不對所謂為什麼說你經檢的單位比較嚴格我跟你講我現在一些事情去處理我要知道說現在我們的經檢單位是很嚴格的因為怕有金融風暴看起來是平平穩穩但是世界的經濟只有改變不曉得"},{"start":23255.672,"end":23280.937,"text":"否定?稍微一點。現在是我們總執行還是跟部會執行?你起碼也跟大方的,你學者出身,我們大家都教導你來做事情,很公平。我佔了大部分的股權地方的農會,你應該給他們有提名,獨立總市的權益啊,讓他去平衡一下。現在所有的銀行都這樣,否定?"},{"start":23283.438,"end":23305.728,"text":"統計起來現在銀行啊臺灣的銀行費收到10月底已經賺了盡照啊你竟然你農業的金額虧了54億檢討一下啦跟你講的話不要死守那個觀念法律要改我們替你改啊把那個獨立董事有放出來啊"},{"start":23306.368,"end":23332.357,"text":"我要很謝謝委員喔那我等一下那你請章夏委員問完之後一起回答好不好因為可能剛剛在提這個獨立董事齁獨立董事應該是獨立在公應該獨立在公司的經營對這個事務來應該是超然跟專業的判斷才能夠幫一個公司有營業並且具備高度重要性的監督角色我特別強調一下監督角色那現在為什麼農業經過會出現剛剛陳昌平陳委員講那個狀況"},{"start":23335.871,"end":23360.905,"text":"就是因為他的監督功能不見了啦他變成農業部是裁判兼的這個球員這個事情我覺得我看了過去幾年這個公報已經討論過好幾次了可是農業部一直一直在強調說他有所謂的政策這個命令我要強調兩個點第一個有政策命令或者是為了要政策去辯護或者要有他的這個使命的我們的供應行庫都是啊"},{"start":23362.15,"end":23388.773,"text":"全臺灣現在真正有一個有一個還留在這個這個上世紀這個這個看起來是只剩下農業金庫了那第二個我們也提出寄帖這個改革就讓他的獨立董事你現在不要五個人全部都你自己派啊他也會變成獨立這個裁判兼球員的同時你看不是只有剛講54億欸就是以前我們在討論的很多包括產銷產銷的問題包括這個超市激爛的時候農業金庫到底半年的什麼樣的一個角色"},{"start":23389.614,"end":23413.644,"text":"所以我先動結300萬然後請這個農業部好好去想一想獨立董事他的功能怎麼樣才能夠發揮好不好等他可以獨立發揮的時候我們再來解凍這個議事我想張經理委員跟陳昌明委員關心的都同樣科目也一樣我發現293鄭振賢委員也是一樣那是不是就按照三位委員動結"},{"start":23415.918,"end":23434.968,"text":"兩百萬,因為五百萬,動三百萬已經差不多一半了,是不是動兩百萬?動兩百萬啦?好啦,動兩百萬啦,因為上班能幫他,主要是提出基金作業。好,這部分針對第三幕的部分,這個"},{"start":23437.925,"end":23450.651,"text":"第3目的那個農業金控、零二向下農業金融機構管理,我們凍結兩寶案提出書面報告時的動之。好,主決議的部分?"},{"start":23450.651,"end":23464.579,"text":"尊教辦理。好,召喚通過。好,接下來農糧署。農糧署294跟295提案委員不在,我們照列。"},{"start":23465.629,"end":23486.207,"text":"二九六到三零九我們一起處理二九六到三零九農養署第三目的部分農養管理主席要不要請我們部長先說明好請陳部長先說明"},{"start":23491.977,"end":23511.779,"text":"整個農業管理的部分它有分幾個部分特別是在第一個是稻作雜糧他們相關的一個我們在做這個產業輔導的時候的一個跟地方在處理的時候的一個管理作為那另外有一些跟自衛化農業有關的這些計畫下去的一個管理"},{"start":23512.259,"end":23536.658,"text":"然後後面還有一些肥料的一個相關的管理的部分,都是做這些跟產業有關的這些輔導過程中的必要的一個管理作為。好,那個總共有110委員,我的部分,主席的部分302改組決議,305的部分也改組決議,另外309的部分也改組決議。"},{"start":23543.081,"end":23548.755,"text":"各位那個農糧管理部分第3幕來李玉玲委員之後再請楊全元委員"},{"start":23550.131,"end":23573.984,"text":"好 部長剛剛說明得非常淺顯但是部長應該知道我們想問什麼了那就是我們農糧的管理當然就是我們有關於公糧你說你年底要提出配套現在已經12月了那我相信你的配套應該會照顧到我們農民的權益畢竟不是所有的稻米區域全部會做公糧"},{"start":23574.724,"end":23587.696,"text":"那農業部特別你提出來的一級二轉三加三這個政策這個是屬於改善環境並沒有改善到農民的整個生產的成本這個也是要請部長一定要在配套裡面詳細的來做出一個對農民比較有利的一個方式"},{"start":23592.12,"end":23595.724,"text":"畢竟公糧13年還沒有調整過價錢那我的案子是298還有就是301部分301的話就在提到說我們農畜水產的源頭的管理就是他們用藥的安全跟監測的一個抽驗的情形我們希望農糧署這邊對這個用藥的品質"},{"start":23613.704,"end":23617.147,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分："},{"start":23628.995,"end":23643.917,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算的基金及農業特別收入基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作"},{"start":23644.878,"end":23647.26,"text":"我們看到我們的產銷履歷在112年我們統計它整個驗證的面積達到95608公頃但是我看到111年一直下降了將近1萬多公頃到112年以再繼續的下降所以我們希望整個我們推廣作業要重新的盤整來讓我們的農產品能夠溯源驗證的作業好不好"},{"start":23668.194,"end":23682.45,"text":"那這些部分呢我們希望都提出一些經濟的做法跟一個對於我們整體環境跟農民有可以權益上能夠保障的這個配套。好 謝謝 現在請楊卓英、楊卓英事後張其凱、張其凱事後邱映穎。"},{"start":23685.633,"end":23699.871,"text":"道作雜糧怎麼樣去分配今年還好一點點我們今年灌溉水現在都有分配所以水都可以灌溉但是你們還是控管整個道作的量"},{"start":23701.653,"end":23728.026,"text":"農民說:「我這個是糧田啊。」農民說:「你如果說我的水是不夠的,所以你們輪灌,會公投。」農民說:「可是我現在,你的水是夠的啊。」農民說:「你既然你同意他不輪灌,全部供水,但是你限制他不能做到,我本來就是倒田啊。」農民說:「那我覺得這一點沒有邏輯。」農民說:「部長,我覺得你今天,我們好不容易以往都是"},{"start":23728.806,"end":23740.094,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":23755.484,"end":23784.414,"text":"尤其嘉南地區我覺得這個你們要去討論而且我充分建議因為有時候聽說要送我們一個禮物大多數是都沒夠啦但是太有夠的時候給你請啊為什麼不要呢這是我第一點問題那第二個呢也就是在308的這個部分因為冷鏈物流對於目前我們一直不管是前任的陳其中部長一直到也是陳部長陳俊俊部長"},{"start":23785.174,"end":23810.181,"text":"那我們對忍戀的部分呢大家都非常的需求不管是果菜市場不管是肉片起牛不管是魚市場這個通通都是要但是在公平性我覺得我們錢必須要用在有效能的身上有效能的身上所以原本呢我要給你們經濟是減劣10%那我現在願意以凍結的方式凍結的方式凍3000萬就2%"},{"start":23813.482,"end":23814.823,"text":"當期凱、之後邱宇銀、邱宇銀之後陳昌明"},{"start":23842.685,"end":23862.457,"text":"好,農業部一直在推銷它的一級二轉三加三政策,也有很多農民說今天又聽不到。現在很多農、很多大農還是沒有加入,或者不願意加入。然後又因為國內大米生產的成本偏高,國際競爭力薄弱。即使最近這幾年啦,有很多國際糧食都出現短缺的狀況。"},{"start":23863.297,"end":23886.448,"text":"那麼臺灣外銷的成效還是非常的有限沒有擴展這個外銷的規模所以呢我希望農業部一方面在推這個一期二轉3加3的同時一定要好好去想一想為什麼農民不願意加入你或者是為什麼聽不懂特別是為什麼沒辦法好好去擴大外銷的規模另外有一個重要原因當然是因為"},{"start":23887.208,"end":23905.402,"text":"公糧收購,美國已經調高5塊錢。我們現在在等部長的這個報告。我們先凍結1000萬,等部長的報告出來,我們再做進一步的決定。接下來會請邱議員,邱議員之後陳昌明。好,謝謝主席。我想這個農糧的管理牽扯到所有的這個農業的發展。"},{"start":23908.496,"end":23934.376,"text":"那個部長雖然大家一直在講要提高公糧收購那在講聽不懂你們所謂的一級二轉3加3但是其實加入集團稻米契作的農民還是有非常多今天美農農會早上7點不到已經排一堆農民要加入契作的行列美農147米的契作行列所以他們今年因為預算不夠多所以他們只能增加50公頃"},{"start":23935.777,"end":23944.293,"text":"那我覺得依照這樣子的一個良性發展我覺得農糧單位應該要去多多推廣台灣的優質糧米"},{"start":23946.9,"end":23973.697,"text":"甚至比如說學校的營養午餐我們也一直希望能夠推動學校的營養午餐是不是能夠採用台灣的優質糧米跟軍中的伙食軍中的米飯我覺得要從台灣自己本土做起我們要讓我們的孩子們從小他就可以吃到台灣的糧食米而不是一味的一直去講求高產量但是口感不佳的公糧一直不斷的去增加種植的面積"},{"start":23974.577,"end":24002.182,"text":"所以我覺得推動台灣的優質稻米的種植這一點其實對農糧單位是非常重要的所以你一直講一級二轉三加三可能真的有人聽不懂但是如何去協助農民種植優良的國產米這一點是你們應該要去極力推廣的地方釋出一些利多讓更多的農民願意參與這樣的一個集團耕作拿美農農會來做一個良好的例子我覺得這個也"},{"start":24003.382,"end":24006.943,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度中央政府重新審查114年度"},{"start":24030.526,"end":24041.08,"text":"法案已經延伸到我苗栗縣來啦那我影片看了一下我感受很深我也請你們下去看那現在審查預算我稍微拖延一下"},{"start":24042.199,"end":24065.221,"text":"那紅外的這邊又跟林務吉保護動物你又不能宰又不能殺看起來又很可愛但是實在又氣又混把我生氣要賣的東西沒有辦法有收入進來阿我講就你研究一套辦法這個如果你們連這樣就沒有防止的話阿農業部要有什麼作為"},{"start":24067.642,"end":24089.892,"text":"你們怎麼自己要阻止我?你們自己說維穩還有那個炮槍是這樣來阻礙火子。你們兩個給我想一個辦法,不然我會很痛苦的。每天我那些農民給我做個醫療,請我替他解決。你們有沒有什麼法事?"},{"start":24092.981,"end":24116.496,"text":"阿你說天然災害補償你們又不同意。阿你們紅火魚的話我處理過。最早我就是處理紅火魚。在西湖的地區就要你們依照這樣的方式。但是我把它看來應付的場面太多了。因為我看那個布施圖哪一個鄉鎮多少。結果都不一定。阿保證給我解決一下。不然我討論的越來越多啦。"},{"start":24118.427,"end":24143.84,"text":"好,那請農業部、農家署、綜合大會所有委員詢問。你回答一下,有什麼更好的辦法?我先回答剛才那個委員的一些提案,就是剛才那個楊委員提到大區輪作的部分,我們現在已經有一個原則,就是當水資源夠的時候,我們就暫停這個大區輪作的這個東西,今年已經是暫停了。就是,對。"},{"start":24145.56,"end":24171.597,"text":"沒有,就是讓他種。就是水資源夠的時候,我們就會暫停大區輪作。那水資源不夠的時候,我們才會啟動。然後我會請農田水利署去建立一個機制,讓農民更早知道。那根據水的資源多或少來決定,這個已經在做了。我可不可以確認一下,就是說我們的水是夠的,所以我們不輪貫。對。你水給他,他還是可以繼續種稻米。"},{"start":24172.137,"end":24193.344,"text":"對,就是這樣子。然後另外冷鏈的部分我想我們也會來處理,就是我們是建構一個全國冷鏈網。那個張綺凱、張委員提到的這些公糧的部分,然後我想我們也承諾了就是說在月底之前,但是絕對不會在31號,我們一定是在中下旬的時候也一定會去考慮到"},{"start":24194.404,"end":24209.956,"text":"除非農業作業基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基金及農民退休基"},{"start":24217.541,"end":24223.082,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會及所屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":24240.086,"end":24240.367,"text":"好!"},{"start":24240.367,"end":24241.949,"text":"保祿我教你做方法!"},{"start":24262.584,"end":24278.209,"text":"現在有機器人他眼睛可以看他晚上白天都可以自由的走動啊你把他放著買幾部去試驗如果他可以認識猴子還是認識任何動物他就會發出聲響"},{"start":24279.89,"end":24304.87,"text":"那火子對於炮直升可能已經習慣了,他說啊這個不會把我拆,但是看到人的時候,狗來牠可能會怕。所以你要用新的點子來解決這個辦法,我跟你講,沒力沒辦法。你AI的機器狗或是什麼狗,你這樣給牠在山區繞來繞去幾步起來牠會照射,晚上都能看得到。"},{"start":24306.427,"end":24329.667,"text":"嘗試一下這個我講的一個科技管理好不好我們來研議看看啦因為猴子今天超屁嘛真的真的你們不要科技啦我沒什麼教啦這台的假造語你用機器過然後用世界系統去繞然後發出聲響所以要用這些來解決不要以往的方式啦好不好這第一點"},{"start":24330.987,"end":24351.715,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：非營業部分：非收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入基金及收入"},{"start":24352.622,"end":24366.232,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期基金、農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":24382.554,"end":24403.139,"text":"不適宜耕種的農地很多,尤其這幾十年的經濟變化,那大概你為了供糧採購,我告訴你,你把大廈不適宜耕種,把它停止。有人要去種瓜田,有人要去歐元米田園工會,或日本地域的改觀,不適宜耕種,就把它劃出來。"},{"start":24404.471,"end":24430.009,"text":"我們現在你們每天都在跟我們說糧食安全其實我們糧食過多我們稻米生產過多你們庫存量要兩年大概都是賠賣到國外不然的去做飼料做那個米腔所以到現在你碰到的問題還好這是CPTPP沒有過不然你真的頭痛台灣的農業如果照這樣競爭下來真的我們會面臨很多問題"},{"start":24432.691,"end":24455.201,"text":"所以科技農業非常重要那你說大概我聽你的算支的報告有25萬公頃的話是多出來的等於說是做工量了你們去查一下不適宜耕種的時候不要勉強他們去耕種自然有人去找用途來做了這個觀念真的要放心啦"},{"start":24456.121,"end":24481.528,"text":"好不好,那個林委員長,你很優秀,但是我只要幫我們好好解決,那是你山上跑來山下踢我們的喔,好不好,想個新的方式,謝謝。聽陳昌明委員在講,好像聽教授在上課,非常專業。那個張靜凱社、陳立芬,之後我們就處理了。謝謝陳昌明委員,現場有些笑聲是好的啦。"},{"start":24482.625,"end":24507.17,"text":"阿對阿,很好啦,也聽到部長說不會拖到12月31號啦,時間可以盡快。可以盡快,然後講今天你看在審這個預算,很多凍結跟減淚就是因為你的報告還沒出來嘛。那我們也很期待,因為這是我們農村在那裡行政院協商嘛,在協調的時候你也在現場。也是總在左院長答應的,我希望你提出的時候,真正可以讓農民,接著說你這個部長是有照顧他們的。"},{"start":24508.71,"end":24535.771,"text":"農業部也照顧到他們。好不好?好不好?我們這位請…另外一位我談一下那個休耕的那個問題你知道說水有夠就不休耕嗎?我們嘉義是跟台南是輪流那今年水過了所以嘉義今年不用休耕對不對?是不是?今年?蛤?可以齁?明年不會休耕對不對?齁?所以明年嘉義不會休耕嘛齁?水有夠就這樣齁?我們不實施輪…輪作啦那農民他自己要休耕他是可以自己休耕啦"},{"start":24536.511,"end":24557.327,"text":"所以他如果要更受名點是可以的就對了好好謝謝好那請陳定非之後我們就處理了還是要強調一下那個之前有跟部長在質詢的部分就供糧的部分我覺得今天供糧的部分會炒成這樣是因為真的他會讓大家有感的是因為很久沒有調整了"},{"start":24558.027,"end":24581.978,"text":"所以我們一直在強調是我們不要一直漫天喊價說我要調多少調多少而是你應該給農民有一個保障的機制也就是說如何我們可以隨著多久幾年能夠檢討一次這樣的機制出來農民就知道我大概有什麼樣的依據否則現在工人說這個多久沒了"},{"start":24585.359,"end":24595.8,"text":"部長,多久沒調了?13年沒有調。是嗎?所以為什麼大家會對這樣的議題會有興趣?就是13年沒有調了。所以我們把它制度化。"},{"start":24596.738,"end":24624.657,"text":"不要是說哪一個時間點他拿出來說我要喊到多少而是我應該有什麼樣的機制幾年調整一次幾年拿出來檢討一次我覺得這才是對農民比較有依靠然後讓他們可以幸福的而且也比起你說我今天做的那些專案其實這些專案有哪幾個農民會很清楚的了解其實不會"},{"start":24626.249,"end":24640.193,"text":"好,所以這個部分我覺得制度還是最重要的,部長。好,謝謝。我們重申大家意見,關於農糧署第3幕農糧管理的預算,我們是不是凍結3000萬,當然凍結3000萬,提出書面報告之後,使得凍之。來,主決議的部分,310。"},{"start":24650.66,"end":24656.762,"text":"311修正文字311遵照辦理312遵照辦理313遵照辦理314遵照辦理315遵照辦理316遵照辦理繼續處理農田水利署"},{"start":24678.322,"end":24704.063,"text":"農田水利署來317曾佳俊委員不在我們是不是就照列318李毓林委員委員有同意照列委員已經有同意照列同意照列照列好我們處理319到325農田水利署第4幕的部分農田水利發展那我的部分主席的部分322改主席"},{"start":24710.83,"end":24713.152,"text":"三二五是改組決定嗎?"},{"start":24713.152,"end":24716.575,"text":"鄭委員你那個三二五 凍結啊來那個 忍農水組說明一下好了"},{"start":24728.428,"end":24741.641,"text":"報告召委還有各位委員那事實上我們325這個預算最主要是在做農地重劃區內的這個農水路的這個改善那事實上地方上是需求非常的殷切那麼可以讓我們的這個灌溉水好好"},{"start":24750.105,"end":24761.616,"text":"因為在山地你們要特別照顧一下,難怪他會提鄭天才很斯文的人。斯文的立委提洞捷大概你們得罪他不少,他要的人不給他。"},{"start":24763.874,"end":24788.391,"text":"但是我要強調一句話農地重劃區的基礎建設升級計畫這個勢必要做因為我去看過農地重劃區大概以前做到現在以前那個鋪的柏油大概都沒有鋪很爛很破我常常說經濟其外敗息其中大馬路修得好好你重劃區的土地不能看"},{"start":24789.817,"end":24814.213,"text":"所以這一點我是特別不是提啊因為我小的地方的需求這樣就少動一些啦好不好那我們給主席 那我們是不是動機500萬好 這個第四幕的部分我們動機500萬提出說明報紙的動之然後鄭天才委員你第五幕的部分有沒有特別意見第五幕的部分你3、2、6"},{"start":24820.977,"end":24842.827,"text":"3、2、6的部分是不是就我們就照列好不好。這個都是撥款給地方做這個基礎的農田水利建設的經費。那我們當然已經有凍結啦,那個跟是一樣的,那我們是不是就照列3、2、6。主決3、2、7的部分。 遵照辦理。"},{"start":24845.569,"end":24846.69,"text":"委員已修正文字。"},{"start":24859.964,"end":24871.453,"text":"維也同意修正文字通過331維也同意修正文字通過331維也同意修正文字通過331這個維也同意修正文字按照修正文字通過好"},{"start":24889.813,"end":24905.286,"text":"好,你直接答覆那個鄭天才委員。是是是。改成組決議。3、2、6。我們看你們這個約跟鄭天才委員約個時間去辦公室。談過了。談過了。你要有書面報告。雖然是改成組決議,但是針對3、2、6要有個書面報告給鄭天才委員。"},{"start":24924.614,"end":24933.26,"text":"來,332農業科技園區管理中心332,主席。召喚通過。召喚通過是我講的。來,曾委員。謝謝主席。我要麻煩我們這個蘭花園區的部分,到底我們現在整個的"},{"start":24950.929,"end":24975.323,"text":"進度到哪裡了?因為明年我們有兩個很大的重要的展覽有亞太、有國際這兩個非常大我們現在是用我們目前今年的預算把它雲芝出來要去處理明年那我們的大計畫還有一個大的匡列計畫現在已經不是叫你們的人事的部分嗎?"},{"start":24980.515,"end":24980.696,"text":"編制啦!"},{"start":24982.039,"end":24985.722,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":25010.862,"end":25034.799,"text":"不是,他那邊的計畫通過以後才會再處理人的問題,那那邊還在審。對,現在進入到哪裡了?之前是國防會到行政院叫你們修正嘛。在修正,那現在我們在報過去。修正我們現在正在修正。對啊,那差在哪裡?為什麼那麼久?從那天到這裡一個多月了欸。主要是針對他的經費問題跟設施,因為他我們有"},{"start":25039.122,"end":25060.406,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事"},{"start":25065.127,"end":25079.922,"text":"與地方所承諾的是沒差,只是說我們把管理中心跟研發中心整合成一個綜合大樓,那這機會會往下調到十幾億。拜託把這個部分大概多久我們要送上去?你們預計多久可以OK?"},{"start":25080.322,"end":25090.065,"text":"我們今年底應該可以把...今年底12月31今年底就可以送到行政院送到國發會所以先送到國發會12月底是送到國發會然後國發會審了可能又是明年了"},{"start":25097.887,"end":25114.834,"text":"所以這個進度你看要拖多久所以還是要部長拜託一下對啊你看你們正式接牌之後接了之後到現在其實還是這樣子對啊還是這樣子讓大家感覺有一點慢了"},{"start":25115.334,"end":25127.566,"text":"我了解 我想我們在努力在跟國會溝通就是要修正的一次搞定對啊 因為你之後這個預算過了還有一個編制的問題對 我知道 對啊 這時間拖了我看還要一年喔"},{"start":25128.519,"end":25142.354,"text":"我們是希望愈快愈好然後那個後續就是我們會跟國安會再溝通啦就是說有一些問題就一次解決不然國安會 是啦不要來來去去啦這個部分再拜託部長我們在溝通 今天你有事了解要編輯我了解 這就拜託 謝謝"},{"start":25148.516,"end":25175.957,"text":"這個就遵照辦理。已經沒再回答了,已經宣讀了。好。那個332部分是...遵照辦理。好,來333。遵照辦理。另外農業部之前那個暫保留的主決議經過溝通之後122、124、149、151這個主決議剛剛暫保留部分經過溝通之後我們按照修正文字通過"},{"start":25181.207,"end":25195.617,"text":"我們...不是不是"},{"start":25261.325,"end":25269.138,"text":"但是所以主席你客觀中意你就不能去決定草野協商怎樣啊那是草野協商阿不是啦對對對對對沒啦你這樣"},{"start":25286.528,"end":25307.345,"text":"沒有啦,我講那個,養委員,養委員,我一直叫補來啦齁,我以為說農業部,齁,處理料,不是,農業部處理料,又回頭來處理玻璃的部分嘛,那那個東中、旅林委員會有在的,政經產委員會有在的,齁,我都有確認過,齁,所以你這樣,就通過啊,如果我再推翻這樣,這樣我就"},{"start":25309.775,"end":25319.403,"text":"主席我可不可以講話一下講制度問題不是主席不是不是這個不是錢多少的問題是立法院經濟委員會的原則因為我們從開始講了一個多小時因為藍綠白都有提案然後我們主要是剛開始我們說我們家賣處理反正你草野協商這個這個才去做草野協商"},{"start":25332.995,"end":25348.695,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":25348.775,"end":25349.175,"text":"我們今天講到明天"},{"start":25377.929,"end":25401.071,"text":"來來,我告訴你,你的委員怎麼說的呢?因為你主席很英明,所以你的話我都記得很清楚。本來關於媒體政策及業務宣傳,大家有所異議跟爭執。那你的才是說,等整個討論完畢回來再來討論。你現在是看到我們人少,你就這樣把它清秒。"},{"start":25402.392,"end":25416.802,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分：非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":25432.792,"end":25443.96,"text":"兩位委員,當中不是說沒人,兩位理事、理委、政務都有在的,你都有在,你嘛。"},{"start":25445.978,"end":25472.619,"text":"我都是有所本啦,你我講解農業部112年你們的這個部分才1980萬你今年變300萬我們30%我跟妳講阿一定開6000點鐘的會10%你還有意見?不是,我齁,我齁,我是沒意見喔齁但是,但是我愛教論不是,那個楊委員我講我主持,我,你給,你可以探聽我主持會議齁"},{"start":25474.7,"end":25485.584,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案．一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算部分．非營業部分．非農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業"},{"start":25503.53,"end":25504.851,"text":"這個主席其實都按照意思"},{"start":25524.947,"end":25547.486,"text":"我知道我知道我蠻英明的我現在來處理了因為我那時候應該要發言更精準一點我心裡面想法是說到部本部處理完再回頭來但是我沒有講到部本部我心裡面想的是部本部"},{"start":25549.178,"end":25571.35,"text":"但我沒有講因為我認為是部分部那你們解讀是全部預算處理完之後那我尊重你們解讀啦齁那這個我必須要跟大家說這個也要更改這個需要在場委員的同意齁需要在場委員的同意因為在場委員這樣這個政經財委員我在處理的時候你也在嘛齁"},{"start":25572.991,"end":25601.63,"text":"禮遇也在,那等於說我變更我的決議喔,變更委員會的決議喔。抱歉抱歉,我先講,現在不是變更,現在是主席講的話大家有解讀,不一樣嘛對不對。那不是,就是既然沒有很精準,我們就回來把它處理吧。那我也要提醒一下,本來經濟委員會就應該有自己每個委員的表達,後來做個決議,你到了"},{"start":25602.33,"end":25621.31,"text":"我提醒啦老蔣到了朝野協商這筆預算媒體政策跟業務宣導會一定是砍更多的嘛你先來處理嘛對董事會比較好我是沒有人意見你要簡略你要凍結我都沒意見但是呢如果我是從回來再處理就代表說我否定之前的決議了"},{"start":25624.028,"end":25645.259,"text":"我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?我以後如何安生立命呢?"},{"start":25657.182,"end":25666.73,"text":"我會這麼建議啦齁,這個不要,我會收回,我會造劣齁,不要造劣齁,這不保留啦。"},{"start":25667.725,"end":25672.228,"text":"非營業部分：農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利事業作業基金及農田水利"},{"start":25698.225,"end":25700.647,"text":"所以主席本席具體建議第三項檢列這個3%"},{"start":25727.083,"end":25729.847,"text":"主席處理議事並沒有瑕疵並沒有瑕疵"},{"start":25743.123,"end":25757.45,"text":"聽人家講並沒有瑕疵但是因為各自解讀的不同我尊重這個委員會大家提出的意見那我再必須重申主席處理議事並沒有瑕疵也沒有錯誤"},{"start":25758.47,"end":25773.078,"text":"那這部分呢我們就是用楊瓊瑩委員她也資深啦她提出的意見我也都接受我們都可以理解可是經由我們大家同意啦對啦我們大家同意啦瓊瑩瑩減劣20%是605欸謝宜鳳是減劣500萬張家俊跟我都是減劣1000欸"},{"start":25782.89,"end":25798.36,"text":"主席,我的部分不是你的一億多這個,你要聽清楚,我的部分是在你們的政策跟業務宣導費3,026萬兩千,我們是不是就照楊瓊玉文意見就僅列300萬?好,就300萬,驚揚大家的同意!"},{"start":25803.516,"end":25823.315,"text":"我必須強烈處理一事公正而且沒有任何瑕疵報告主席我不認同你剛剛講說你心裡所想但是沒有講出來像你在戀愛一個美女一樣我很愛她想跟她結婚你又不敢跟她求婚啊"},{"start":25827.48,"end":25831.091,"text":"現在那個各位同仁先不要離開這個協商結論還是要宣讀請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":25835.848,"end":25861.774,"text":"宣讀協商結論第一案至第七案媒體政策及業務宣導費減列三百萬元。第八案凍結兩百萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資。第九案至二十七案第一幕凍結兩千萬元提出專案報告後使得凍資。第二十八至三十七案第二幕減列兩百萬元科目自行調整另凍結一千萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資。"},{"start":25863.214,"end":25880.705,"text":"其中31案改組決議。第三十八至八十九案第三目簡列兩千萬元科目自行調整令凍結兩億元提出書面報告後使得動之其中四十二案、五十案改為組決議。第九十至一百零五案第四目預算照列"},{"start":25881.385,"end":25885.008,"text":"其中95、96、98、100、105案改為主決議。第106至114案第7目凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資其中110案、111案改為主決議。第115至119案第8目凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資其中118案改為主決議。主決議120案、121案"},{"start":25916.581,"end":25927.608,"text":"122案是就是遵照辦理好122案就照案通過主決議120案到123案照案通過124案修正通過125案到137案照案通過138案修正通過139案到148案照案通過149案修正通過150案照案通過151案152案"},{"start":25943.317,"end":25950.582,"text":"修正通過153案到160案照案通過161案修正通過162案到169案169案之一169之二案照案通過第170案預算照列第171案預算照列第172至175案通過175案第176案至201案第4目"},{"start":25973.817,"end":25985.025,"text":"第四目,凍結2000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資,其中186案、198案改為主決議。主決議部分202案照案通過、203案修正通過、204案到206案照案通過。"},{"start":25990.769,"end":26003.499,"text":"二百零七案至二百一十四案第三目凍結一千萬元提出書面報告或使得凍資其中二百一十三案改為主決議。主決議部分二百一十六案到二百二十一案照案通過。"},{"start":26006.943,"end":26011.229,"text":"第222案改為主決議。第223案測案。第224案照案通過。第225案到227案預算照列。其中227案改為主決議。第228案。"},{"start":26022.183,"end":26028.891,"text":"預算照列第229案凍結500萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資。 230案預算照列231案到239案第一幕凍結300萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資,其中238案改為主決議。"},{"start":26039.682,"end":26068.265,"text":"二百四十案至二百四十七案第三目凍結五百萬元提出書面報告後使得動之。二百四十八案至二百五十四案第四目預算照列。主決議部分二百五十五案到二百五十八案照案通過。二百五十九案到二百六十一案修正通過。第二百六十二案到二百七十五案第三目凍結五百萬元提出書面報告後使得動之。其中二百六十八案、二百六十九案改為主決議。"},{"start":26069.306,"end":26074.989,"text":"主決議部分276案到280案照案通過281案、282案修正通過283案、284案照案通過285案改為主決議"},{"start":26084.363,"end":26108.324,"text":"二百八十六案到二百九十二案第三目參照二百八十九案凍結兩百萬元提出書面報告後此的凍資其中二百八十六案、二百八十八案、二百九十一案、二百九十二案改為主決議。主決議二百九十三案照通過。二百九十四案至二百九十五案預算照列。二百九十六案至三百零九案。"},{"start":26109.085,"end":26116.129,"text":"第三目凍結3000萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資其中302案、305案、309案改為主決議主決議部分310案修正通過311案到316案照案通過317案預算照列318案預算照列"},{"start":26128.155,"end":26139.143,"text":"319案到325案第4目凍結500萬元提出宿命報告後使得動之。其中322案改為主決議。326案預算照列本案改為主決議。主決議部分327案照案通過。328案到331案還有331之一案修正通過。主決議332案、333案照案通過。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":26157.043,"end":26182.239,"text":"好請問各位同仁有委員提案的部分照剛才宣讀的協商結論通過沒有提案的部分我們均照列請問有無異議好無異議通過114年度農業部及所屬單位預算審查完略本次會議通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員來處理來整理正式別隨同機關別審查結果調整"},{"start":26183.695,"end":26192.285,"text":"另外有關於114年度農業部所屬非營業基金令定期處理。現在休息。"}]}},{"id":"16336","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16336","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd323e8eb5774d58be0a83d0d18514ced0a82e37f9ba35fd7729b584878a13b4a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:31:25+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:36:00+08:00","duration":18275,"影片長度":"05:04:35","委員發言時間":"08:31:25 - 13:36:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1711.1390937500003,"end":1711.9828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1716.7753437500003,"end":1719.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1720.1503437500003,"end":1723.3565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1726.1240937500002,"end":1749.0909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1749.42846875,"end":1756.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1756.9884687500003,"end":1769.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1769.83034375,"end":1776.4959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1776.83346875,"end":1782.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1782.8578437500003,"end":1790.4009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1790.5697187500002,"end":1793.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1793.4890937500002,"end":1799.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1800.1040937500002,"end":1805.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1805.2847187500001,"end":1806.4828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1806.8540937500002,"end":1815.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1815.8484687500002,"end":1821.1978437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1822.3622187500002,"end":1826.8509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1827.2728437500002,"end":1830.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1831.2890937500001,"end":1833.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1835.47409375,"end":1839.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1839.9290937500002,"end":1841.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1841.5659687500001,"end":1844.1309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1846.18971875,"end":1848.4847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1849.1934687500002,"end":1849.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1850.7628437500002,"end":1852.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1855.8084687500002,"end":1856.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1857.7997187500002,"end":1859.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1862.3897187500002,"end":1863.8240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1864.4822187500001,"end":1865.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1868.4815937500002,"end":1869.4265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1869.93284375,"end":1871.0465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1873.7128437500003,"end":1875.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1878.0328437500002,"end":1878.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1879.1128437500001,"end":1880.1253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1882.9940937500003,"end":1884.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1887.6347187500003,"end":1888.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1889.5078437500001,"end":1890.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1892.8997187500001,"end":1894.9247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1897.5403437500001,"end":1899.7003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1900.1053437500002,"end":1901.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1901.8940937500001,"end":1903.0753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1903.54784375,"end":1905.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1906.1634687500002,"end":1907.7159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1910.44971875,"end":1911.6309687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1914.7697187500003,"end":1915.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1916.22096875,"end":1916.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1917.5372187500002,"end":1919.5284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1920.0853437500002,"end":1923.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1924.21971875,"end":1927.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1928.01659375,"end":1929.6365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1931.0203437500002,"end":1932.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1933.2647187500002,"end":1942.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1942.6809687500001,"end":1947.1865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1947.70971875,"end":1948.3678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1948.5197187500003,"end":1949.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1950.6459687500003,"end":1952.2659687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1952.4684687500003,"end":1958.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1959.25221875,"end":1959.7247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1961.05784375,"end":1961.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1970.4065937500002,"end":1970.5584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1970.77784375,"end":1973.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1973.4778437500001,"end":1996.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1997.1365937500002,"end":1999.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2000.0390937500001,"end":2000.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2000.6634687500002,"end":2010.9740937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2011.4634687500002,"end":2016.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2016.5765937500003,"end":2017.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2017.8590937500003,"end":2078.3053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2078.94659375,"end":2120.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2121.97784375,"end":2143.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2144.10096875,"end":2151.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2151.82971875,"end":2158.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2159.3222187500005,"end":2159.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2160.2165937500004,"end":2162.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2162.91659375,"end":2169.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2170.18971875,"end":2170.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2172.11346875,"end":2216.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2217.8278437500003,"end":2238.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2239.3434687500003,"end":2240.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2240.96346875,"end":2244.1865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2244.32159375,"end":2253.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2254.5309687500003,"end":2256.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2257.3828437500006,"end":2271.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2271.87846875,"end":2282.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2283.1172187500006,"end":2301.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2303.4684687500003,"end":2320.9003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2321.3222187500005,"end":2322.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2323.39784375,"end":2340.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2340.52596875,"end":2344.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2345.5547187500006,"end":2346.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2347.37721875,"end":2360.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2361.01221875,"end":2372.3184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2372.62221875,"end":2373.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2374.2253437500003,"end":2374.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2375.11971875,"end":2393.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2393.7665937500005,"end":2394.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2396.0447187500004,"end":2408.6503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2408.7684687500005,"end":2428.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2429.5584687500004,"end":2430.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2432.49471875,"end":2438.7722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2439.0084687500002,"end":2457.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2459.35971875,"end":2481.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2483.2547187500004,"end":2497.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2497.80096875,"end":2498.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2499.5897187500004,"end":2500.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2500.45034375,"end":2520.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2521.5947187500005,"end":2522.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2522.6240937500006,"end":2535.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2536.4109687500004,"end":2569.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2570.14409375,"end":2585.4834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2585.66909375,"end":2590.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2590.5290937500004,"end":2599.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2599.79346875,"end":2603.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2604.8222187500005,"end":2605.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2606.18909375,"end":2624.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2624.49846875,"end":2661.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2662.4334687500004,"end":2663.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2664.3065937500005,"end":2669.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2670.12846875,"end":2675.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2675.8828437500006,"end":2677.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2677.41846875,"end":2678.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2681.70471875,"end":2681.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2681.7215937500005,"end":2682.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2682.58221875,"end":2704.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2707.06784375,"end":2708.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2708.9578437500004,"end":2709.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2709.12659375,"end":2751.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2752.39409375,"end":2764.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2765.1178437500002,"end":2770.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2770.8722187500007,"end":2770.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2771.42909375,"end":2774.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2775.39471875,"end":2783.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2785.6884687500005,"end":2788.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2791.1728437500005,"end":2791.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2792.6240937500006,"end":2793.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2794.98659375,"end":2796.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2798.6484687500006,"end":2799.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2799.9647187500004,"end":2801.4159687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2802.05721875,"end":2803.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2804.3522187500002,"end":2805.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2806.32659375,"end":2807.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2808.92534375,"end":2810.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2811.2878437500003,"end":2812.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2812.46909375,"end":2814.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2815.54034375,"end":2819.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2819.6072187500004,"end":2821.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2821.69971875,"end":2828.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2837.91659375,"end":2838.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2841.7303437500004,"end":2843.1815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2843.9747187500006,"end":2845.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2846.57346875,"end":2852.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2854.0997187500006,"end":2854.6228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2854.65659375,"end":2863.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":2863.6003437500003,"end":2871.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2884.1709687500006,"end":2888.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2888.71034375,"end":2889.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2889.1659687500005,"end":2900.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2900.3878437500007,"end":2906.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2906.7665937500005,"end":2910.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2910.4284687500003,"end":2920.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2920.3172187500004,"end":2923.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2923.55721875,"end":2925.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2925.6328437500006,"end":2927.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2927.3709687500004,"end":2930.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2930.84721875,"end":2934.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2934.64409375,"end":2936.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2936.50034375,"end":2946.9122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2947.3847187500005,"end":2954.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2954.5565937500005,"end":2957.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2958.1003437500003,"end":2959.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2959.8047187500006,"end":2960.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2960.6484687500006,"end":2961.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2962.3190937500003,"end":2977.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2977.18596875,"end":2980.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":2980.9490937500004,"end":3006.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3006.97034375,"end":3007.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3008.2528437500005,"end":3017.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3017.4665937500004,"end":3027.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3027.97971875,"end":3043.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3044.1628437500003,"end":3052.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3053.00534375,"end":3055.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3055.53659375,"end":3062.5059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3063.2315937500007,"end":3081.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3081.6084687500006,"end":3082.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3082.84034375,"end":3083.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3083.6503437500005,"end":3084.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3084.6122187500005,"end":3085.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3086.2490937500006,"end":3087.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3087.29534375,"end":3092.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3093.67409375,"end":3094.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3095.6484687500006,"end":3102.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3103.5290937500004,"end":3105.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3108.7772187500004,"end":3110.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3111.9665937500004,"end":3112.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3117.97409375,"end":3118.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3118.9697187500005,"end":3119.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3120.4715937500005,"end":3125.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3125.6522187500004,"end":3126.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3126.36096875,"end":3127.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3127.55909375,"end":3136.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":3136.23284375,"end":3149.7159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3146.5097187500005,"end":3147.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3149.54721875,"end":3164.5828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3170.77596875,"end":3176.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3177.03659375,"end":3182.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3181.98096875,"end":3184.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3184.6134687500007,"end":3188.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3189.20346875,"end":3203.2772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3202.8553437500004,"end":3204.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3207.59721875,"end":3209.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3210.6178437500002,"end":3213.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3213.6553437500006,"end":3215.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3216.03471875,"end":3217.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3217.2159687500007,"end":3220.3378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3220.9959687500004,"end":3222.6328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3222.95346875,"end":3225.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3225.3834687500002,"end":3229.0622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3229.39971875,"end":3231.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3231.2390937500004,"end":3233.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3234.2597187500005,"end":3237.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3237.7697187500007,"end":3239.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3240.79034375,"end":3242.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3242.7647187500006,"end":3243.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3243.8278437500003,"end":3246.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3246.3759687500005,"end":3246.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3247.91159375,"end":3247.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3247.9284687500003,"end":3249.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3249.64971875,"end":3260.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3261.0234687500006,"end":3265.0565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3267.67221875,"end":3268.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3270.08534375,"end":3276.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3276.6328437500006,"end":3277.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3277.72971875,"end":3279.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3280.58159375,"end":3285.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3285.2897187500002,"end":3299.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3299.38034375,"end":3305.8097187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3305.87721875,"end":3311.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3322.9884687500007,"end":3323.6972187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3324.2372187500005,"end":3324.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3333.5184687500005,"end":3333.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3333.92346875,"end":3333.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3334.56471875,"end":3342.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3343.12034375,"end":3354.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3354.7303437500004,"end":3362.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3363.4715937500005,"end":3363.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3363.97784375,"end":3377.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3365.5303437500006,"end":3365.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":3380.3634687500007,"end":3380.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3380.4140937500006,"end":3381.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3383.3672187500006,"end":3385.3584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3385.8984687500006,"end":3387.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3389.0878437500005,"end":3390.6065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3391.28159375,"end":3395.3484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3395.85471875,"end":3401.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3401.7440937500005,"end":3403.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3403.8028437500006,"end":3409.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3409.48971875,"end":3419.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3410.0128437500007,"end":3410.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3419.31096875,"end":3436.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3436.5909687500007,"end":3436.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3437.08034375,"end":3461.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3461.97096875,"end":3465.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3466.7634687500004,"end":3468.2315937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3469.0584687500004,"end":3475.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3475.04909375,"end":3478.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3478.8965937500006,"end":3479.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3479.47034375,"end":3480.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3481.0565937500005,"end":3481.8497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3482.59221875,"end":3490.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3487.5197187500007,"end":3488.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3490.2197187500005,"end":3493.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3493.44284375,"end":3498.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3496.8515937500006,"end":3496.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3496.88534375,"end":3497.1553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3497.1553437500006,"end":3497.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3499.0115937500004,"end":3499.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3500.0409687500005,"end":3502.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3500.85096875,"end":3502.8253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3503.5509687500007,"end":3503.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3503.6522187500004,"end":3507.8034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3507.41534375,"end":3517.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3516.4772187500002,"end":3520.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3521.0165937500005,"end":3524.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3525.26909375,"end":3532.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3532.8290937500005,"end":3539.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3538.5497187500005,"end":3538.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3539.66346875,"end":3541.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3539.6972187500005,"end":3539.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3540.3047187500006,"end":3540.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3542.1778437500006,"end":3559.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3560.63909375,"end":3561.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3561.6178437500002,"end":3562.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3562.5290937500004,"end":3563.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3563.42346875,"end":3565.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3566.5622187500003,"end":3566.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3566.91659375,"end":3567.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3568.77284375,"end":3569.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3571.1690937500007,"end":3574.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3574.44284375,"end":3578.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3579.80909375,"end":3580.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3580.34909375,"end":3580.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3580.8553437500004,"end":3585.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3583.36971875,"end":3583.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3585.10784375,"end":3589.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3589.7822187500005,"end":3591.3347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3593.1065937500007,"end":3602.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3602.33721875,"end":3603.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":3604.0584687500004,"end":3604.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3604.76721875,"end":3614.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3615.0440937500007,"end":3616.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3617.71034375,"end":3625.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3627.54846875,"end":3631.5984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3632.05409375,"end":3636.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3636.9140937500006,"end":3638.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3639.3103437500004,"end":3650.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3649.3678437500002,"end":3653.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3651.7809687500003,"end":3652.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3653.4347187500007,"end":3656.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3653.8903437500003,"end":3654.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3655.0378437500003,"end":3660.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3660.03284375,"end":3661.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3661.3659687500003,"end":3661.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3661.9734687500004,"end":3662.0240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3662.0240937500002,"end":3662.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3662.47971875,"end":3662.6315937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3662.6315937500003,"end":3662.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3662.6484687500006,"end":3662.7497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3662.7497187500003,"end":3662.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3662.8340937500006,"end":3663.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3663.0703437500006,"end":3663.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3663.08721875,"end":3663.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3664.1334687500002,"end":3665.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3665.75346875,"end":3665.7872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3665.8884687500004,"end":3674.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3675.08534375,"end":3678.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3678.0047187500004,"end":3685.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3684.3497187500006,"end":3690.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3690.88034375,"end":3691.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3690.94784375,"end":3691.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3691.2684687500005,"end":3691.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3691.9772187500002,"end":3694.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3694.79534375,"end":3702.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3703.0978437500007,"end":3704.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3705.17346875,"end":3724.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3715.5515937500004,"end":3716.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3719.7197187500005,"end":3720.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3721.8965937500006,"end":3723.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3723.4997187500003,"end":3729.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3729.43971875,"end":3730.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3729.45659375,"end":3730.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3730.9753437500003,"end":3732.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3732.76409375,"end":3741.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3739.6659687500005,"end":3746.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3741.5390937500006,"end":3741.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3741.5897187500004,"end":3741.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3744.93096875,"end":3745.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3746.63534375,"end":3746.6522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3747.1922187500004,"end":3748.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3747.2090937500006,"end":3776.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3776.16659375,"end":3781.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3778.81596875,"end":3779.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3780.0309687500003,"end":3780.3009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3781.33034375,"end":3802.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3801.47909375,"end":3802.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3802.30596875,"end":3810.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3804.0440937500007,"end":3805.1915937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3806.0859687500006,"end":3806.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3806.11971875,"end":3808.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3810.7097187500003,"end":3815.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3810.76034375,"end":3810.8278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3816.17721875,"end":3818.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3816.3122187500003,"end":3816.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3818.0165937500005,"end":3818.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3818.28659375,"end":3820.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3820.4128437500003,"end":3820.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3820.8347187500003,"end":3833.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3833.0859687500006,"end":3851.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":3851.96909375,"end":3865.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3861.0309687500003,"end":3861.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3864.7940937500007,"end":3869.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3873.0459687500006,"end":3873.9909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3874.6828437500008,"end":3875.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3876.4715937500005,"end":3878.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3886.1915937500007,"end":3888.5878437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3889.1447187500007,"end":3889.9040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3896.7722187500003,"end":3898.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3896.9072187500005,"end":3896.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3897.1940937500003,"end":3897.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3899.5059687500006,"end":3903.3703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3903.4884687500007,"end":3904.4334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3904.58534375,"end":3904.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3905.54721875,"end":3906.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3906.69471875,"end":3906.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":3906.9647187500004,"end":3907.0153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3907.1334687500002,"end":3908.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3909.52971875,"end":3910.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3911.7403437500006,"end":3912.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3913.68096875,"end":3914.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3915.9422187500004,"end":3918.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3918.57471875,"end":3921.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3922.5909687500007,"end":3928.9528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3929.5097187500005,"end":3930.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3931.16346875,"end":3933.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3933.8634687500007,"end":3938.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3939.12846875,"end":3943.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3944.4609687500006,"end":3948.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3949.96221875,"end":3951.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3952.3078437500008,"end":3954.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3954.92346875,"end":3956.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3957.8934687500005,"end":3958.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3959.54721875,"end":3969.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3969.7734687500006,"end":3972.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3972.81096875,"end":3975.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3976.1522187500004,"end":3978.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3979.49346875,"end":3981.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3982.6153437500006,"end":3983.5265937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3983.54346875,"end":3983.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3983.6784687500003,"end":3986.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3983.77971875,"end":3983.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3983.9484687500008,"end":3983.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3986.31096875,"end":3993.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3993.4997187500003,"end":3994.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3994.86659375,"end":4008.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4008.0965937500005,"end":4008.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4008.29909375,"end":4008.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4008.36659375,"end":4008.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4008.78846875,"end":4008.8728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4008.8728437500004,"end":4008.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4008.90659375,"end":4008.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4008.97409375,"end":4030.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4016.6522187500004,"end":4017.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4029.15659375,"end":4030.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4030.5909687500007,"end":4033.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4031.0634687500005,"end":4031.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4033.0378437500003,"end":4050.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4033.07159375,"end":4033.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4040.0915937500004,"end":4040.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":4040.3447187500005,"end":4040.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4051.0603437500004,"end":4051.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4051.22909375,"end":4069.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4069.9940937500005,"end":4115.050343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4084.13534375,"end":4084.2028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4084.2028437500003,"end":4084.2703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4084.2703437500004,"end":4084.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4103.03534375,"end":4103.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4108.435343749999,"end":4108.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4115.573468750001,"end":4117.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4119.15096875,"end":4119.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4120.028468750001,"end":4120.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4121.49659375,"end":4125.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4126.94721875,"end":4127.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4128.179093750001,"end":4129.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4129.529093749999,"end":4132.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4133.140343749999,"end":4139.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4140.227843750001,"end":4146.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4147.450343750001,"end":4151.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4151.989718750001,"end":4154.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4154.858468750001,"end":4155.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4156.7822187500005,"end":4158.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4158.62159375,"end":4160.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4160.528468750001,"end":4162.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4162.587218750001,"end":4162.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4163.31284375,"end":4178.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4179.24284375,"end":4183.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4184.40659375,"end":4188.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4188.135968750001,"end":4188.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4189.401593750001,"end":4190.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4191.409718749999,"end":4193.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4193.02971875,"end":4194.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4195.307843750001,"end":4195.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4196.16846875,"end":4208.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4208.68971875,"end":4214.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4214.64659375,"end":4222.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4222.679093750001,"end":4228.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4229.108468750001,"end":4233.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4233.327218750001,"end":4244.700968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4245.325343750001,"end":4245.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4246.75971875,"end":4251.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4252.17659375,"end":4253.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4254.1678437499995,"end":4255.264718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4256.007218750001,"end":4257.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4265.72721875,"end":4269.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4265.87909375,"end":4265.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4269.06846875,"end":4269.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4269.10221875,"end":4269.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4270.55346875,"end":4271.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4272.10596875,"end":4273.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4274.147843750001,"end":4274.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4275.48096875,"end":4276.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4277.387843750001,"end":4286.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4286.68596875,"end":4290.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4291.3603437500005,"end":4297.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4297.6884687500005,"end":4298.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4299.89909375,"end":4302.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4302.514718750001,"end":4304.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4305.045968750001,"end":4306.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4307.003468749999,"end":4308.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4308.72471875,"end":4316.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4315.069718750001,"end":4315.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4317.3309687500005,"end":4324.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4324.958468750001,"end":4328.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4328.97471875,"end":4329.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4330.763468749999,"end":4333.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4333.27784375,"end":4334.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4334.44221875,"end":4334.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4334.475968750001,"end":4334.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4334.49284375,"end":4334.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4334.526593750001,"end":4334.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4334.72909375,"end":4334.796593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4334.796593749999,"end":4334.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4335.25221875,"end":4335.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4335.38721875,"end":4336.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4335.404093749999,"end":4336.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4336.41659375,"end":4337.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4338.67784375,"end":4339.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4340.02784375,"end":4345.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4345.24221875,"end":4352.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4351.31721875,"end":4351.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4352.92034375,"end":4362.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4356.3290937500005,"end":4356.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4362.94409375,"end":4367.753468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4366.960343750001,"end":4367.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4367.753468749999,"end":4367.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4367.78721875,"end":4367.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4367.82096875,"end":4367.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4367.939093749999,"end":4372.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4368.090968750001,"end":4369.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4372.7147187499995,"end":4376.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4376.78159375,"end":4379.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4379.717843750001,"end":4380.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4381.00034375,"end":4390.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4391.54721875,"end":4429.347218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4429.499093750001,"end":4443.690968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4444.23096875,"end":4451.622218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4452.0947187500005,"end":4458.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4459.5028437500005,"end":4461.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4461.696593750001,"end":4462.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4463.046593749999,"end":4464.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4465.493468750001,"end":4466.472218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4466.82659375,"end":4471.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4472.243468750001,"end":4473.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4474.04909375,"end":4487.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4488.15659375,"end":4495.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4496.83034375,"end":4508.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4509.43596875,"end":4510.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4510.80284375,"end":4512.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4512.642218749999,"end":4514.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4514.616593750001,"end":4515.173468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4515.3759687500005,"end":4516.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4517.468468749999,"end":4524.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4526.327843749999,"end":4528.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4529.58471875,"end":4530.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4530.9178437499995,"end":4531.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4531.778468750001,"end":4532.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4533.82034375,"end":4535.237843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4536.925343749999,"end":4551.690968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4551.35346875,"end":4555.167218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4555.70721875,"end":4560.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":4561.545968750001,"end":4562.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4562.08596875,"end":4562.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4562.11971875,"end":4562.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4563.01409375,"end":4564.532843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4565.0897187499995,"end":4565.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4566.05159375,"end":4571.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4571.97471875,"end":4588.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4574.809718750001,"end":4574.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":4575.06284375,"end":4575.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4589.372843749999,"end":4591.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4591.5497187500005,"end":4592.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4593.05159375,"end":4608.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4606.19721875,"end":4608.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4610.87159375,"end":4612.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4613.45346875,"end":4615.394093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4624.23659375,"end":4634.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4635.67784375,"end":4642.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4642.79909375,"end":4643.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4644.182843750001,"end":4653.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4653.599093750001,"end":4686.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4687.28159375,"end":4690.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4690.92659375,"end":4691.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4692.20909375,"end":4697.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4698.09846875,"end":4698.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4699.22909375,"end":4720.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4720.08659375,"end":4724.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4722.550343750001,"end":4726.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4727.0897187499995,"end":4737.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4729.300343750001,"end":4729.907843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4738.345343749999,"end":4747.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4747.55909375,"end":4749.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4750.42784375,"end":4772.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4773.34409375,"end":4775.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4775.841593749999,"end":4777.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4777.93409375,"end":4779.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4779.739718750001,"end":4781.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4781.9334687499995,"end":4784.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4784.481593750001,"end":4787.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4787.35034375,"end":4795.298468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4795.298468749999,"end":4795.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4795.635968750001,"end":4813.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4813.1522187499995,"end":4823.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4814.02971875,"end":4815.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4824.458468750001,"end":4831.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4832.187218749999,"end":4837.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4837.772843750001,"end":4847.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4848.15096875,"end":4850.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4850.850968750001,"end":4854.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4855.069718750001,"end":4856.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4856.82471875,"end":4869.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4870.05471875,"end":4872.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4872.95721875,"end":4883.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4883.1834687499995,"end":4883.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4883.993468750001,"end":4899.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4900.00784375,"end":4909.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4909.03596875,"end":4917.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4919.009093750001,"end":4919.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4919.83596875,"end":4925.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":4925.32034375,"end":4952.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4951.05471875,"end":4986.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4987.09971875,"end":4991.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4991.92596875,"end":5013.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5013.66096875,"end":5020.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5020.7147187499995,"end":5041.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5041.75784375,"end":5042.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5043.39471875,"end":5044.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5044.7615937499995,"end":5055.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5055.67971875,"end":5068.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5068.55534375,"end":5071.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5071.491593750001,"end":5072.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5072.385968750001,"end":5075.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5075.59221875,"end":5084.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5084.249093750001,"end":5087.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5085.71721875,"end":5089.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5088.366593750001,"end":5089.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5089.88534375,"end":5096.804093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5092.93971875,"end":5093.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5093.07471875,"end":5093.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5097.749093750001,"end":5103.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5103.90846875,"end":5104.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5105.69721875,"end":5118.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5118.977843750001,"end":5119.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5120.2772187499995,"end":5123.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5123.888468749999,"end":5134.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5135.58284375,"end":5139.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5140.257218750001,"end":5141.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5141.87721875,"end":5153.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5142.19784375,"end":5142.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5153.08221875,"end":5171.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5170.395968750001,"end":5170.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5170.41284375,"end":5171.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5171.03721875,"end":5171.610968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5172.134093750001,"end":5172.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5172.15096875,"end":5198.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5198.49284375,"end":5211.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5211.99284375,"end":5212.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5212.9715937500005,"end":5214.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5214.47346875,"end":5219.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5219.78909375,"end":5273.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5272.118468750001,"end":5272.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5273.40096875,"end":5275.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5275.628468750001,"end":5280.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5281.686593750001,"end":5282.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5282.96909375,"end":5283.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5283.91409375,"end":5283.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5283.9647187499995,"end":5310.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5311.99409375,"end":5316.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5317.495343750001,"end":5337.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5337.89721875,"end":5351.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5352.595343749999,"end":5353.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5354.55284375,"end":5362.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5362.9228437500005,"end":5362.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5365.4540937500005,"end":5366.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5368.154093749999,"end":5369.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5369.571593750001,"end":5371.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5380.37159375,"end":5385.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5383.71284375,"end":5384.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":5385.6365937499995,"end":5386.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5386.0584687499995,"end":5386.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5390.901593750001,"end":5391.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5392.065968750001,"end":5393.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5393.97284375,"end":5399.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5399.474093750001,"end":5404.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5404.55346875,"end":5406.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":5406.10596875,"end":5406.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5406.24096875,"end":5429.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5429.190968750001,"end":5439.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5439.67034375,"end":5450.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5451.0947187500005,"end":5455.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5455.870343750001,"end":5456.747843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5457.220343749999,"end":5475.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5459.31284375,"end":5459.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5459.667218750001,"end":5460.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5475.090968750001,"end":5492.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5493.045968750001,"end":5515.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5517.21096875,"end":5522.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5523.10034375,"end":5531.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5531.79096875,"end":5581.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5581.97721875,"end":5587.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5587.61346875,"end":5600.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5601.29909375,"end":5658.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5658.404093749999,"end":5662.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5662.622843749999,"end":5665.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5665.862843750001,"end":5669.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5670.0478437500005,"end":5673.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5673.591593749999,"end":5676.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5676.62909375,"end":5678.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5679.00846875,"end":5682.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5682.450968749999,"end":5696.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5696.845343749999,"end":5702.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5702.39721875,"end":5714.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5715.1884687500005,"end":5718.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5718.462218750001,"end":5722.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5724.0478437500005,"end":5734.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5734.66221875,"end":5736.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5737.446593750001,"end":5741.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5741.800343750001,"end":5742.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5742.779093749999,"end":5742.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5743.94346875,"end":5748.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5748.19596875,"end":5748.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5748.24659375,"end":5748.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5748.48284375,"end":5763.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5748.499718749999,"end":5748.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5763.366593750001,"end":5770.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5769.47534375,"end":5771.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5772.66471875,"end":5773.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5773.575968749999,"end":5776.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5776.90034375,"end":5781.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5781.4228437500005,"end":5785.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5784.696593750001,"end":5795.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5795.479718750001,"end":5810.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5810.63346875,"end":5836.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5815.03784375,"end":5815.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5816.472218750001,"end":5817.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5823.694718750001,"end":5824.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5836.6884687500005,"end":5841.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5839.388468749999,"end":5839.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5841.464093750001,"end":5852.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5851.4540937500005,"end":5880.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":5864.430968750001,"end":5864.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5864.97096875,"end":5865.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5880.360968750001,"end":5882.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5883.21284375,"end":5886.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5885.96346875,"end":5908.255343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5905.65659375,"end":5906.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5908.28909375,"end":5974.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5917.97534375,"end":5918.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5955.35346875,"end":5955.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5975.21534375,"end":5982.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5982.927218750001,"end":5992.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":5992.765343749999,"end":6000.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6000.62909375,"end":6004.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6004.84784375,"end":6004.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6004.965968750001,"end":6045.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6005.050343750001,"end":6005.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6045.48284375,"end":6061.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6060.231593750001,"end":6060.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6061.446593750001,"end":6079.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6079.722218750001,"end":6081.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6081.84846875,"end":6108.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6082.067843750001,"end":6082.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6093.5428437499995,"end":6094.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6108.47721875,"end":6114.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6115.37909375,"end":6134.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6125.53784375,"end":6126.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6132.43971875,"end":6132.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6132.76034375,"end":6132.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6134.852843750001,"end":6134.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6134.97096875,"end":6135.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6135.089093750001,"end":6136.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6135.595343750001,"end":6136.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6136.0340937500005,"end":6136.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6136.2197187500005,"end":6136.725968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":6136.725968750001,"end":6137.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6139.56096875,"end":6141.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6141.602843750001,"end":6143.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6147.036593750001,"end":6148.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6148.97721875,"end":6148.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6149.39909375,"end":6149.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6150.749093750001,"end":6151.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6152.655968749999,"end":6155.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6163.2197187500005,"end":6166.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6172.214093750001,"end":6172.686593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6172.872218750001,"end":6173.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6173.952218750001,"end":6184.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6184.212218750001,"end":6184.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6184.769093750001,"end":6191.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6193.122218750001,"end":6195.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6195.872843749999,"end":6197.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6198.57284375,"end":6201.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6201.880343750001,"end":6202.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6203.83784375,"end":6205.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":6205.71096875,"end":6205.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6205.7615937499995,"end":6208.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":6205.812218749999,"end":6205.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6209.96346875,"end":6232.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6213.28784375,"end":6213.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6213.30471875,"end":6213.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6213.6590937500005,"end":6213.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6222.29909375,"end":6223.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6232.390343749999,"end":6240.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6240.507218750001,"end":6242.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6243.25784375,"end":6243.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6243.274718750001,"end":6243.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6244.017218750001,"end":6247.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6247.61159375,"end":6249.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6248.45534375,"end":6251.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6251.83034375,"end":6258.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6252.20159375,"end":6252.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6253.09596875,"end":6254.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6256.79159375,"end":6258.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6258.81659375,"end":6260.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6259.60971875,"end":6264.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6264.216593749999,"end":6266.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6266.86596875,"end":6267.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6267.86159375,"end":6278.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6278.96534375,"end":6279.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6280.028468750001,"end":6283.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6282.52596875,"end":6283.673468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6283.167218750001,"end":6283.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6283.825343750001,"end":6284.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6284.07846875,"end":6284.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6284.247218750001,"end":6288.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6288.5165937500005,"end":6292.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6292.88721875,"end":6296.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6295.55346875,"end":6295.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6295.73909375,"end":6295.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6295.84034375,"end":6295.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6296.0428437499995,"end":6303.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6303.80534375,"end":6305.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6305.290343750001,"end":6307.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6308.26034375,"end":6314.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6311.010968750001,"end":6311.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6313.55909375,"end":6316.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6316.2928437499995,"end":6316.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6317.69346875,"end":6324.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6324.81471875,"end":6325.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6325.97909375,"end":6326.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6326.50221875,"end":6329.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6329.151593750001,"end":6333.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6334.247843749999,"end":6335.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6336.07034375,"end":6340.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6340.964093750001,"end":6345.554093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6344.82846875,"end":6348.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6346.077218750001,"end":6346.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6348.2372187500005,"end":6348.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6348.96284375,"end":6356.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6354.19409375,"end":6362.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6362.091593749999,"end":6367.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6367.94721875,"end":6369.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6370.309718750001,"end":6373.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6372.19971875,"end":6373.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6374.342843750001,"end":6382.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6382.61159375,"end":6382.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6382.71284375,"end":6387.792218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6382.74659375,"end":6384.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6388.0790937500005,"end":6392.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6391.42034375,"end":6394.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6392.83784375,"end":6394.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6395.21721875,"end":6400.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6396.077843749999,"end":6396.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6400.27971875,"end":6400.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6400.397843750001,"end":6401.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6401.22471875,"end":6404.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6401.241593750001,"end":6401.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6404.21159375,"end":6405.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6405.122843749999,"end":6407.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6405.3759687500005,"end":6405.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6406.05096875,"end":6407.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6407.654093749999,"end":6413.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6411.24846875,"end":6412.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6413.104718750001,"end":6415.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6415.60221875,"end":6424.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6424.529093749999,"end":6426.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6426.35159375,"end":6428.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6426.8915937500005,"end":6427.2459687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6429.52409375,"end":6430.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6429.99659375,"end":6430.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6432.25784375,"end":6434.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6433.489718750001,"end":6434.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6434.4178437499995,"end":6434.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6434.78909375,"end":6437.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6439.00784375,"end":6440.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6440.22284375,"end":6452.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":6449.520968750001,"end":6449.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6449.97659375,"end":6449.993468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6452.54159375,"end":6457.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6457.536593750001,"end":6457.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6458.12721875,"end":6459.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6459.76409375,"end":6461.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6462.1434687500005,"end":6470.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6471.05346875,"end":6471.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6471.07034375,"end":6471.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6471.9647187499995,"end":6476.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6476.31846875,"end":6477.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6477.53346875,"end":6483.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6477.56721875,"end":6478.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6483.47346875,"end":6492.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":6483.54096875,"end":6484.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6484.2665937500005,"end":6484.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":6484.33409375,"end":6484.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6493.42971875,"end":6499.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6500.73659375,"end":6501.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6502.170968750001,"end":6503.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6503.31846875,"end":6504.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6504.837218750001,"end":6506.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6507.182843750001,"end":6508.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6508.61721875,"end":6511.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6511.28346875,"end":6513.274718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6513.780968749999,"end":6515.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6516.39659375,"end":6516.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6518.06721875,"end":6519.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6521.08784375,"end":6521.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6523.298468750001,"end":6524.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6524.73284375,"end":6525.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6525.087218750001,"end":6527.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6527.60159375,"end":6529.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6530.55471875,"end":6530.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6531.887843750001,"end":6533.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6534.35159375,"end":6536.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6534.368468750001,"end":6535.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6537.034718750001,"end":6541.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6540.932843750001,"end":6542.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6543.00846875,"end":6544.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6544.93221875,"end":6545.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6546.61971875,"end":6549.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6549.77534375,"end":6550.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6550.56846875,"end":6554.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6551.5809687500005,"end":6552.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6553.909718750001,"end":6554.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6554.804093750001,"end":6557.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6558.21284375,"end":6560.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6559.37721875,"end":6562.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6562.347218750001,"end":6563.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6563.292218750001,"end":6567.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6566.937218749999,"end":6569.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6569.78909375,"end":6580.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6579.72846875,"end":6585.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6585.19596875,"end":6591.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6589.60034375,"end":6591.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6591.135968750001,"end":6592.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6592.28346875,"end":6593.279093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6593.481593750001,"end":6594.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6594.224093750001,"end":6596.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6596.249093750001,"end":6597.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6597.16034375,"end":6597.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6597.19409375,"end":6598.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6598.1053437499995,"end":6598.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6598.22346875,"end":6599.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6600.58596875,"end":6601.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6602.3915937500005,"end":6605.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6605.327843749999,"end":6609.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6610.626593750001,"end":6612.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6612.5165937500005,"end":6612.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6613.61346875,"end":6614.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6614.609093749999,"end":6617.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6619.485968750001,"end":6622.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6622.0340937500005,"end":6622.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6622.05096875,"end":6622.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6622.067843750001,"end":6622.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6622.23659375,"end":6630.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6630.690968750001,"end":6630.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6631.298468750001,"end":6632.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6633.0028437500005,"end":6633.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6633.509093750001,"end":6634.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6634.859093749999,"end":6635.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6635.73659375,"end":6637.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6639.229718750001,"end":6640.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6641.45721875,"end":6643.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6644.46096875,"end":6646.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6647.515343749999,"end":6648.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6649.47284375,"end":6650.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6650.35034375,"end":6650.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6651.85221875,"end":6651.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6651.970343750001,"end":6658.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6658.61909375,"end":6659.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6659.7665937500005,"end":6661.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6661.724093750001,"end":6661.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6661.74096875,"end":6661.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6661.89284375,"end":6662.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6662.92221875,"end":6664.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6664.964093750001,"end":6666.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6666.0947187500005,"end":6666.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6666.24659375,"end":6667.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6668.153468750001,"end":6670.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6669.16596875,"end":6670.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6670.38096875,"end":6671.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6671.714093750001,"end":6672.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6671.8153437500005,"end":6672.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6674.515343749999,"end":6680.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6681.19784375,"end":6682.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6682.09221875,"end":6685.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6686.530343750001,"end":6689.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6690.884093750001,"end":6694.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6695.59221875,"end":6696.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6696.267218750001,"end":6696.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6697.19534375,"end":6698.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6699.47346875,"end":6702.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6703.489718750001,"end":6708.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6709.294718749999,"end":6710.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6711.48846875,"end":6712.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6712.770968750001,"end":6713.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6713.142218750001,"end":6714.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6715.08284375,"end":6718.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6717.29346875,"end":6717.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6718.28909375,"end":6720.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6721.630343750001,"end":6724.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6725.64659375,"end":6726.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6726.06846875,"end":6732.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6732.86909375,"end":6737.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6738.0497187500005,"end":6740.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6741.509093750001,"end":6751.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6751.41471875,"end":6752.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6753.794093750001,"end":6756.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6757.202843749999,"end":6761.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6762.75471875,"end":6771.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6771.3778437500005,"end":6772.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6773.571593750001,"end":6778.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6778.954718750001,"end":6779.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6779.055968750001,"end":6782.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6782.245343750001,"end":6782.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6782.852843750001,"end":6782.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6782.92034375,"end":6782.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6782.987843750001,"end":6784.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6784.13534375,"end":6784.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6784.202843749999,"end":6784.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6784.253468750001,"end":6786.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6784.52346875,"end":6785.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6793.38284375,"end":6795.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6804.452843749999,"end":6805.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6805.9715937500005,"end":6806.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6807.43971875,"end":6807.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6807.96284375,"end":6808.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6808.215968750001,"end":6809.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6808.60409375,"end":6809.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6809.937218749999,"end":6809.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6811.304093750001,"end":6812.890343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6811.675343750001,"end":6812.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6813.075968749999,"end":6813.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6818.35784375,"end":6818.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6818.40846875,"end":6818.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6818.50971875,"end":6818.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6818.54346875,"end":6818.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":6818.59409375,"end":6818.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6820.55159375,"end":6821.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6822.829718750001,"end":6826.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6826.8290937500005,"end":6830.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6830.54159375,"end":6847.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6847.669718749999,"end":6851.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6851.31471875,"end":6852.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6852.698468750001,"end":6857.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6857.1365937499995,"end":6868.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6869.06721875,"end":6870.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6871.69971875,"end":6871.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6872.59409375,"end":6872.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6872.6278437500005,"end":6872.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6872.661593750001,"end":6873.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6873.454718750001,"end":6874.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6874.669718749999,"end":6875.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6875.2772187499995,"end":6877.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6878.55096875,"end":6881.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6881.77409375,"end":6883.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6883.107218749999,"end":6883.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6883.124093750001,"end":6883.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6884.64284375,"end":6891.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6891.15659375,"end":6896.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":6899.93159375,"end":6920.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6914.69721875,"end":6916.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6916.452218750001,"end":6924.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6926.88096875,"end":6928.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6928.247843749999,"end":6936.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6937.22534375,"end":6937.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6938.54159375,"end":6939.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6940.161593750001,"end":6941.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6941.91659375,"end":6943.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6943.823468750001,"end":6944.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6945.05534375,"end":6946.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6947.13096875,"end":6955.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6955.585343750001,"end":6958.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6958.28534375,"end":6959.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6959.7197187500005,"end":6962.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6962.841593749999,"end":6965.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6965.811593750001,"end":6967.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6968.1572187500005,"end":6973.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6973.37159375,"end":6981.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6981.70784375,"end":6985.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6985.79159375,"end":6986.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6988.154093749999,"end":6988.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6989.58846875,"end":6990.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6990.82034375,"end":6991.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6991.529093749999,"end":6992.102843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6992.35596875,"end":6992.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6993.25034375,"end":6993.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6994.85346875,"end":6997.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6997.75596875,"end":7000.405343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7000.776593750001,"end":7002.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7002.39659375,"end":7004.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7004.82659375,"end":7005.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7005.923468750001,"end":7007.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7008.20159375,"end":7010.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7011.01971875,"end":7011.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7011.087218750001,"end":7012.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7013.2303437499995,"end":7016.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7016.385968750001,"end":7016.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7017.63471875,"end":7020.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7021.296593750001,"end":7023.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7024.04721875,"end":7026.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7027.725968750001,"end":7036.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7036.99034375,"end":7038.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7038.57659375,"end":7039.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7040.382218750001,"end":7041.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7041.7997187500005,"end":7045.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7045.90034375,"end":7053.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7053.7978437500005,"end":7055.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7055.26596875,"end":7067.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7067.888468749999,"end":7069.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7070.30159375,"end":7073.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7074.081593750001,"end":7110.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7110.177218750001,"end":7110.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7110.19409375,"end":7110.278468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7110.278468750001,"end":7110.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7110.29534375,"end":7110.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7111.358468750001,"end":7112.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7112.97846875,"end":7114.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7115.897843750001,"end":7118.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7119.458468750001,"end":7121.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7121.82096875,"end":7124.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7124.892218750001,"end":7127.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7127.845343750001,"end":7134.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7134.94971875,"end":7143.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7143.690968750001,"end":7148.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7148.34846875,"end":7152.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7152.90471875,"end":7160.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7160.937218750001,"end":7162.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7163.11409375,"end":7165.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7165.79721875,"end":7167.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7167.85596875,"end":7169.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7170.032843750001,"end":7171.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7172.479718750001,"end":7173.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7174.6903437500005,"end":7175.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7176.19221875,"end":7176.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7177.019093750001,"end":7178.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7178.87534375,"end":7179.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7180.259093750001,"end":7182.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7183.819718750001,"end":7184.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7184.612843750001,"end":7204.305968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7204.390343750001,"end":7205.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7206.06096875,"end":7208.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7210.110968750001,"end":7217.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7217.78909375,"end":7224.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7225.28159375,"end":7226.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7226.31096875,"end":7227.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7227.374093750001,"end":7231.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7231.93034375,"end":7233.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7233.263468749999,"end":7233.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7234.5965937500005,"end":7237.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":7237.718468750001,"end":7238.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7238.22471875,"end":7244.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7245.3290937500005,"end":7265.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7266.33846875,"end":7268.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7269.173468750001,"end":7279.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7280.192843750001,"end":7281.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7281.99846875,"end":7285.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7285.575968749999,"end":7287.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7288.124093750001,"end":7291.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7291.684718750001,"end":7293.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7294.215968750001,"end":7294.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7295.22846875,"end":7297.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7297.75971875,"end":7301.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7302.130343750001,"end":7322.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7322.49846875,"end":7327.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7328.59034375,"end":7330.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7342.61346875,"end":7343.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7343.54159375,"end":7344.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7345.3134687500005,"end":7352.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7353.71721875,"end":7368.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7369.61346875,"end":7379.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7380.16034375,"end":7380.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7381.155968750001,"end":7383.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7383.2822187500005,"end":7384.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7384.88534375,"end":7385.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7385.7459687499995,"end":7388.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7388.6990937499995,"end":7390.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7391.145968750001,"end":7394.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7395.14534375,"end":7398.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7398.99284375,"end":7399.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7400.5115937499995,"end":7401.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7402.36784375,"end":7405.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7405.75971875,"end":7406.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7406.890343750001,"end":7409.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7409.77596875,"end":7411.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7411.733468750001,"end":7416.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7416.509093750001,"end":7454.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7453.75221875,"end":7464.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7454.477843750001,"end":7454.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7465.27784375,"end":7480.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7488.413468750001,"end":7491.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7497.9647187499995,"end":7499.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7500.1415937500005,"end":7500.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7500.175343750001,"end":7501.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7500.19221875,"end":7501.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7505.760968750001,"end":7506.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7507.026593750001,"end":7507.954718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7508.30909375,"end":7508.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7509.57471875,"end":7516.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7516.965968750001,"end":7530.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7530.280343750001,"end":7546.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7548.032843750001,"end":7548.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7549.7372187500005,"end":7551.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7551.91409375,"end":7556.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7556.53784375,"end":7590.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7591.958468750001,"end":7593.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7593.932843750001,"end":7596.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7597.763468749999,"end":7598.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7598.59034375,"end":7600.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7600.767218750001,"end":7601.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7601.59409375,"end":7608.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":7610.4872187500005,"end":7610.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7610.622218750001,"end":7618.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7618.97534375,"end":7620.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7621.42221875,"end":7623.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7623.76784375,"end":7629.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7629.96096875,"end":7631.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7632.4247187500005,"end":7635.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7635.63096875,"end":7639.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7639.74846875,"end":7646.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7648.0340937500005,"end":7650.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7651.32471875,"end":7659.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7660.015343750001,"end":7667.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7667.609093750001,"end":7677.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7678.1728437500005,"end":7681.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7682.374718750001,"end":7691.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7691.419718749999,"end":7699.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7699.09784375,"end":7709.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7709.7459687499995,"end":7710.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7710.454718750001,"end":7718.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7718.45346875,"end":7724.477843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7725.05159375,"end":7725.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7725.76034375,"end":7743.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7742.21346875,"end":7746.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7747.66409375,"end":7749.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7750.060343749999,"end":7752.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7753.300343750001,"end":7755.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7756.067843750001,"end":7756.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7757.434718750001,"end":7760.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7760.421593750001,"end":7763.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7764.28596875,"end":7765.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7765.4334687499995,"end":7767.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7767.30659375,"end":7770.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7770.327218750001,"end":7793.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7788.48471875,"end":7788.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7793.564093750001,"end":7794.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7795.28534375,"end":7796.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7796.83784375,"end":7798.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7799.200343750001,"end":7800.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7802.69346875,"end":7803.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7803.874718750001,"end":7805.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7805.88284375,"end":7805.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7805.96721875,"end":7806.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7807.857218749999,"end":7808.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7809.15659375,"end":7821.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7818.43784375,"end":7826.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7827.465968750001,"end":7828.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7828.529093749999,"end":7833.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7833.94596875,"end":7840.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7841.4384687500005,"end":7856.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7855.24221875,"end":7855.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7856.96346875,"end":7871.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7871.03721875,"end":7880.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7878.19221875,"end":7890.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7890.882218750001,"end":7905.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7892.755343750001,"end":7892.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7905.7997187500005,"end":7909.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7910.17034375,"end":7959.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7934.858468750001,"end":7934.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7934.95971875,"end":7935.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7935.63471875,"end":7935.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7943.12721875,"end":7943.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7951.210343750001,"end":7951.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7951.24409375,"end":7951.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7952.796593750001,"end":7952.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":7952.83034375,"end":7953.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7960.10346875,"end":7963.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7964.5584687499995,"end":7964.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7965.19971875,"end":7969.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":7969.165343750001,"end":8004.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":7978.27784375,"end":7982.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8003.894093750001,"end":8006.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8006.560343749999,"end":8009.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8010.222218750001,"end":8010.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8011.167218750001,"end":8012.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8012.02784375,"end":8016.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8016.550343750001,"end":8019.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8019.38534375,"end":8020.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8021.477843750001,"end":8022.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8023.772843750001,"end":8028.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8027.4853437500005,"end":8030.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8031.14721875,"end":8043.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8043.34784375,"end":8050.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8051.83596875,"end":8057.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8056.729718750001,"end":8058.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8058.788468750001,"end":8060.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8060.67846875,"end":8061.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8062.28159375,"end":8062.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8063.057843750001,"end":8063.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8064.0028437500005,"end":8068.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8069.993468750001,"end":8073.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8073.638468750001,"end":8079.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8079.47721875,"end":8080.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8080.962218750001,"end":8082.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8082.227843750001,"end":8082.700343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8082.43034375,"end":8084.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8085.53534375,"end":8085.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8085.72096875,"end":8085.872843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8085.872843750001,"end":8085.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8085.974093750001,"end":8086.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8086.24409375,"end":8086.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8086.9697187500005,"end":8087.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8089.635968750001,"end":8099.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8097.19596875,"end":8098.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8099.03534375,"end":8100.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8101.448468750001,"end":8103.321593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8103.76034375,"end":8119.622843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":8105.63346875,"end":8105.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8120.31471875,"end":8187.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8166.687218750001,"end":8166.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8188.27034375,"end":8198.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8198.95221875,"end":8199.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8199.964718750001,"end":8232.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8201.31471875,"end":8202.040343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8232.027218750001,"end":8243.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8232.26346875,"end":8232.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8234.96346875,"end":8235.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8238.304718750001,"end":8238.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8243.97471875,"end":8257.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8254.285343750002,"end":8256.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8257.27221875,"end":8257.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8257.609718750002,"end":8257.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8257.62659375,"end":8257.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":8257.930343750002,"end":8276.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8275.328468750002,"end":8284.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8284.829093750002,"end":8308.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":8308.36971875,"end":8317.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8315.997218750003,"end":8318.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8320.87409375,"end":8320.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8320.90784375,"end":8322.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8323.70909375,"end":8332.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8346.422843750002,"end":8347.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8347.82346875,"end":8351.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8351.24909375,"end":8351.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8351.29971875,"end":8353.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8354.219093750002,"end":8355.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8364.546593750001,"end":8364.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8364.597218750001,"end":8364.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8364.63096875,"end":8364.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8364.867218750001,"end":8367.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8367.516593750002,"end":8382.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8382.957218750002,"end":8390.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8391.614093750002,"end":8392.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8394.28034375,"end":8394.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8394.297218750002,"end":8394.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8394.70221875,"end":8394.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8395.32659375,"end":8401.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8401.249718750001,"end":8406.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8406.531593750002,"end":8411.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8411.94846875,"end":8417.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8417.972843750002,"end":8418.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8419.407218750002,"end":8421.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8421.887843750003,"end":8429.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8429.987843750001,"end":8432.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8432.40096875,"end":8439.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8439.52221875,"end":8458.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8459.114093750002,"end":8462.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8463.113468750002,"end":8466.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8466.45471875,"end":8469.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8469.762218750002,"end":8470.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8471.73659375,"end":8475.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8477.507843750001,"end":8477.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8477.96346875,"end":8479.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8479.667843750001,"end":8495.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8495.10846875,"end":8495.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8495.88471875,"end":8497.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8499.934718750003,"end":8499.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8500.42409375,"end":8504.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8504.54159375,"end":8513.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8513.40096875,"end":8517.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8518.39596875,"end":8519.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8520.20159375,"end":8524.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8524.26846875,"end":8526.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8526.79971875,"end":8528.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8529.21284375,"end":8530.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8530.934093750002,"end":8536.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8537.093468750001,"end":8539.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8540.164718750002,"end":8542.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8542.898468750001,"end":8548.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8548.93971875,"end":8554.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8555.250968750002,"end":8561.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8561.899718750003,"end":8572.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8572.93596875,"end":8581.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8582.31846875,"end":8589.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8589.55784375,"end":8595.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8596.30784375,"end":8598.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8598.687218750001,"end":8604.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8605.15034375,"end":8606.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8607.192218750002,"end":8608.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8608.49159375,"end":8613.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8613.97596875,"end":8621.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8621.485343750002,"end":8624.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8625.88971875,"end":8627.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8628.066593750002,"end":8630.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8631.137843750003,"end":8632.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8633.53409375,"end":8637.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8637.972218750001,"end":8644.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8644.215968750003,"end":8644.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8645.211593750002,"end":8645.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8646.274718750003,"end":8649.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8649.91971875,"end":8652.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8653.075343750003,"end":8657.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8658.964718750001,"end":8658.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8659.285343750002,"end":8659.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8659.72409375,"end":8660.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8660.53409375,"end":8664.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8665.140968750002,"end":8670.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8670.524093750002,"end":8672.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8673.17346875,"end":8677.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8677.39221875,"end":8678.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8678.92784375,"end":8680.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8681.13846875,"end":8684.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8684.496593750002,"end":8686.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8687.38221875,"end":8690.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8691.668468750002,"end":8692.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8693.42346875,"end":8694.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8694.570968750002,"end":8694.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8694.63846875,"end":8699.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8694.672218750002,"end":8694.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8699.49846875,"end":8699.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8699.734718750002,"end":8703.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8703.801593750002,"end":8741.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8740.656593750002,"end":8742.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8743.035968750002,"end":8743.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8744.132843750001,"end":8745.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8746.461593750002,"end":8746.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8746.49534375,"end":8746.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8746.765343750001,"end":8746.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8747.64284375,"end":8750.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8750.34284375,"end":8750.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8751.38909375,"end":8751.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8751.96284375,"end":8752.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8752.789718750002,"end":8752.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8752.82346875,"end":8760.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8755.45596875,"end":8755.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8755.742843750002,"end":8755.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8755.844093750002,"end":8755.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8755.962218750003,"end":8756.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8756.063468750002,"end":8756.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8757.329093750002,"end":8757.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8761.379093750002,"end":8766.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8766.99846875,"end":8769.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8770.086593750002,"end":8770.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8770.930343750002,"end":8770.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8770.96409375,"end":8771.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8771.01471875,"end":8772.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8772.972218750001,"end":8773.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8773.461593750002,"end":8773.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8773.63034375,"end":8773.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8773.664093750001,"end":8773.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8773.680968750003,"end":8773.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8774.355968750002,"end":8774.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8774.44034375,"end":8774.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8774.47409375,"end":8774.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8775.95909375,"end":8778.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8778.69284375,"end":8781.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8782.050968750002,"end":8783.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8783.60346875,"end":8784.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8785.949093750001,"end":8787.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8787.535343750002,"end":8791.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8791.77096875,"end":8793.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8794.57221875,"end":8795.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8796.074093750001,"end":8797.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8797.879718750002,"end":8799.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8799.68534375,"end":8802.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8803.043468750002,"end":8805.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8805.91221875,"end":8807.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8808.274718750003,"end":8809.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8809.75971875,"end":8813.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8813.894093750001,"end":8815.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8815.76721875,"end":8816.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8817.47159375,"end":8818.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8819.867843750002,"end":8820.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8821.487843750001,"end":8822.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8822.669093750003,"end":8823.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8824.019093750001,"end":8825.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8825.85846875,"end":8828.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8829.43596875,"end":8832.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8832.574718750002,"end":8836.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8837.316593750002,"end":8839.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8839.965968750003,"end":8841.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8841.957218750002,"end":8845.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8845.83846875,"end":8848.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8849.21346875,"end":8853.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8855.49096875,"end":8855.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8856.21659375,"end":8859.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8860.148468750001,"end":8881.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8881.96784375,"end":8891.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8882.102843750003,"end":8882.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8892.34596875,"end":8899.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8899.83846875,"end":8908.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8908.410968750002,"end":8908.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8910.992843750002,"end":8917.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8917.48971875,"end":8918.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8919.02534375,"end":8925.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8925.437843750002,"end":8926.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8927.15909375,"end":8928.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8928.77909375,"end":8932.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8933.06534375,"end":8935.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8935.95096875,"end":8937.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8938.39784375,"end":8940.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8940.574718750002,"end":8943.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8943.477218750002,"end":8944.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8944.995968750001,"end":8945.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8945.02971875,"end":8945.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8946.430343750002,"end":8965.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8964.33471875,"end":8969.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8969.61659375,"end":8972.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8973.008468750002,"end":8979.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8979.79221875,"end":8981.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8981.14221875,"end":8985.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8985.968468750001,"end":8992.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8992.54971875,"end":8997.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8997.426593750002,"end":8998.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8998.945343750001,"end":9007.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9008.09159375,"end":9016.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9017.187218750001,"end":9020.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9020.899718750003,"end":9023.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9023.61659375,"end":9025.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9025.70909375,"end":9027.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9027.97034375,"end":9032.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9034.31534375,"end":9041.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9039.765968750002,"end":9040.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9041.94284375,"end":9041.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9042.347843750002,"end":9050.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9051.19034375,"end":9053.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9053.789093750001,"end":9058.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9059.492843750002,"end":9064.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9065.09534375,"end":9072.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9072.942218750002,"end":9077.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9077.464718750001,"end":9077.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9078.13971875,"end":9078.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9078.46034375,"end":9079.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9081.88596875,"end":9082.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9082.03784375,"end":9083.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9085.14284375,"end":9086.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9086.40846875,"end":9087.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9097.95096875,"end":9100.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9100.87034375,"end":9101.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9101.477843750003,"end":9101.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9104.734718750002,"end":9107.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9108.683468750001,"end":9108.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9108.93659375,"end":9108.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9108.97034375,"end":9109.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9109.375343750002,"end":9109.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9109.45971875,"end":9135.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9110.13471875,"end":9110.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9136.122218750003,"end":9148.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9149.622218750003,"end":9150.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9150.921593750001,"end":9161.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9161.97471875,"end":9164.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9165.012218750002,"end":9166.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9166.159718750001,"end":9177.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9178.47846875,"end":9192.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9192.24846875,"end":9194.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9195.04971875,"end":9195.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9195.40409375,"end":9197.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9198.390968750002,"end":9204.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9204.21284375,"end":9207.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9208.245968750001,"end":9210.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9210.92909375,"end":9212.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9213.29159375,"end":9215.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9216.34596875,"end":9233.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9233.74409375,"end":9237.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9236.69721875,"end":9237.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9237.321593750003,"end":9237.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9237.33846875,"end":9237.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9237.96284375,"end":9239.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9239.61659375,"end":9239.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9239.75159375,"end":9239.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9239.80221875,"end":9241.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9239.81909375,"end":9240.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9242.13096875,"end":9250.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9243.683468750001,"end":9245.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9250.450343750003,"end":9257.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9258.398468750001,"end":9259.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9259.394093750001,"end":9264.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9264.405968750001,"end":9270.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9270.160343750002,"end":9288.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9287.37284375,"end":9287.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9287.71034375,"end":9287.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9288.38534375,"end":9288.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9289.262843750003,"end":9291.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9291.625343750002,"end":9293.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9293.430968750003,"end":9293.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9293.565968750001,"end":9305.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9305.61471875,"end":9308.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9309.41159375,"end":9315.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9315.891593750002,"end":9333.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9333.239093750002,"end":9346.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9335.230343750001,"end":9335.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":9345.55784375,"end":9345.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9346.519718750002,"end":9355.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9351.51471875,"end":9353.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9354.02909375,"end":9355.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9355.19346875,"end":9385.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9384.539093750001,"end":9394.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9385.956593750001,"end":9387.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9390.867218750001,"end":9391.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9395.17034375,"end":9396.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9396.58784375,"end":9399.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9399.321593750003,"end":9400.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9399.422843750002,"end":9403.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9402.66284375,"end":9413.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9414.070343750001,"end":9415.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9415.84221875,"end":9416.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9417.47909375,"end":9419.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9419.824718750002,"end":9425.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9425.39346875,"end":9439.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9440.969093750002,"end":9454.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9454.890968750002,"end":9459.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9459.59909375,"end":9462.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9463.19346875,"end":9464.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9465.52221875,"end":9467.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9468.03659375,"end":9477.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9477.18284375,"end":9477.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9477.97596875,"end":9483.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9483.34221875,"end":9484.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9484.962218750003,"end":9489.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9489.04596875,"end":9509.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9507.675968750002,"end":9507.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9507.777218750001,"end":9507.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9509.32971875,"end":9511.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9511.86096875,"end":9512.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9511.91159375,"end":9515.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9513.632843750001,"end":9515.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9515.894093750001,"end":9522.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9519.657218750002,"end":9520.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9520.500968750002,"end":9520.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9522.188468750002,"end":9522.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9522.77909375,"end":9550.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9522.930968750003,"end":9524.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9524.027843750002,"end":9524.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9524.26409375,"end":9524.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9549.492218750001,"end":9550.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9551.16284375,"end":9552.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9551.53409375,"end":9551.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9552.25971875,"end":9554.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9554.90909375,"end":9575.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9575.05784375,"end":9576.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9576.89721875,"end":9580.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9580.609718750002,"end":9586.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9586.414718750002,"end":9587.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9587.59596875,"end":9590.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9590.211593750002,"end":9590.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9590.65034375,"end":9592.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9592.03409375,"end":9592.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9593.33346875,"end":9594.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9594.649718750003,"end":9601.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9601.973468750002,"end":9602.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9602.074718750002,"end":9602.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9602.294093750003,"end":9602.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9602.93534375,"end":9605.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9605.297843750002,"end":9606.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9606.68159375,"end":9617.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9616.992218750001,"end":9618.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9618.17346875,"end":9635.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9635.183468750001,"end":9656.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9657.00284375,"end":9666.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9667.27971875,"end":9669.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9672.34221875,"end":9673.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9674.02971875,"end":9675.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10271.57346875,"end":10272.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10272.97409375,"end":10273.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10275.859718750002,"end":10276.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10277.294093750003,"end":10279.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10287.97596875,"end":10290.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10291.82346875,"end":10298.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10300.109093750001,"end":10302.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10302.42096875,"end":10303.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10304.867843750002,"end":10312.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10312.57971875,"end":10312.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10312.664093750001,"end":10312.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10312.714718750001,"end":10313.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10314.21659375,"end":10319.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10319.414093750001,"end":10319.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10320.12284375,"end":10320.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10320.56159375,"end":10320.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10321.70909375,"end":10322.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10326.585968750001,"end":10327.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10326.805343750002,"end":10327.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10327.969718750002,"end":10328.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10328.67846875,"end":10330.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10330.34909375,"end":10331.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10331.867843750002,"end":10334.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10334.98971875,"end":10336.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10337.48721875,"end":10344.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10340.659718750001,"end":10340.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10341.047843750002,"end":10341.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10343.055968750003,"end":10343.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10343.612843750001,"end":10344.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10345.367843750002,"end":10346.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10346.937218750001,"end":10347.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10348.91159375,"end":10351.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10351.72971875,"end":10351.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10352.52284375,"end":10353.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10353.653468750003,"end":10354.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10355.391593750002,"end":10356.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10356.82596875,"end":10357.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10357.83846875,"end":10359.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10359.660968750002,"end":10361.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10361.500343750002,"end":10362.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10363.761593750001,"end":10364.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10365.567218750002,"end":10366.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10367.575343750003,"end":10370.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10371.574718750002,"end":10372.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10372.97534375,"end":10375.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10377.97034375,"end":10381.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10381.36221875,"end":10383.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10383.15096875,"end":10385.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10386.188468750002,"end":10387.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10388.80409375,"end":10391.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10392.820343750001,"end":10395.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10396.262843750003,"end":10398.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10398.16971875,"end":10399.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10399.95846875,"end":10402.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10403.50221875,"end":10403.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10404.51471875,"end":10405.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10405.155968750001,"end":10406.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10407.07971875,"end":10409.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10410.57284375,"end":10412.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10413.239093750002,"end":10416.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10417.22159375,"end":10418.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10419.63471875,"end":10423.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10423.836593750002,"end":10426.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10427.009093750003,"end":10429.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10429.844093750002,"end":10433.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10433.87721875,"end":10438.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10437.04971875,"end":10437.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10438.36596875,"end":10439.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10438.905968750001,"end":10439.125343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10439.15909375,"end":10439.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10439.496593750002,"end":10439.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10439.969093750002,"end":10459.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10460.25284375,"end":10460.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10460.269718750002,"end":10461.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10462.952843750001,"end":10502.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10501.57971875,"end":10504.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10503.722843750002,"end":10506.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10505.511593750001,"end":10508.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10508.29596875,"end":10508.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10508.582843750002,"end":10508.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10508.633468750002,"end":10508.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10508.66721875,"end":10510.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10511.063468750002,"end":10513.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10513.18971875,"end":10514.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10515.14721875,"end":10515.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10516.277843750002,"end":10523.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10523.85471875,"end":10524.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10525.54221875,"end":10528.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10528.90034375,"end":10529.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10529.22096875,"end":10530.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10530.68909375,"end":10534.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10532.207843750002,"end":10533.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10534.739093750002,"end":10539.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10540.39221875,"end":10542.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10543.159718750001,"end":10546.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10546.61909375,"end":10550.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10550.348468750002,"end":10553.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10554.65159375,"end":10557.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10558.80284375,"end":10559.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10559.629718750002,"end":10562.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10563.17346875,"end":10564.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10565.19846875,"end":10566.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10566.852218750002,"end":10567.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10569.315968750001,"end":10574.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10574.918468750002,"end":10579.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10580.520968750003,"end":10582.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10583.254718750002,"end":10586.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10587.675968750002,"end":10588.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10589.802218750003,"end":10591.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10592.839718750001,"end":10593.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10594.425968750002,"end":10596.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10597.36221875,"end":10598.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10599.066593750002,"end":10603.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10603.335968750001,"end":10604.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10605.445343750001,"end":10609.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10611.368468750003,"end":10613.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10614.22034375,"end":10615.266593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10616.042843750001,"end":10617.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10618.000343750002,"end":10618.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10619.50221875,"end":10621.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10622.08409375,"end":10623.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10624.817843750003,"end":10627.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10627.66971875,"end":10630.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10630.724093750003,"end":10633.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10634.38596875,"end":10636.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10635.567218750002,"end":10636.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10636.69784375,"end":10637.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10637.474093750003,"end":10637.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10638.01409375,"end":10645.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10644.359093750001,"end":10645.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10648.527218750001,"end":10653.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10654.63596875,"end":10655.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10656.289718750002,"end":10657.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10658.179718750001,"end":10660.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10661.520968750003,"end":10662.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10661.774093750002,"end":10666.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10666.48221875,"end":10666.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10666.53284375,"end":10666.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10666.634093750003,"end":10666.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10666.667843750001,"end":10669.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10670.34659375,"end":10672.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10671.71346875,"end":10672.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10672.01721875,"end":10672.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10673.367218750001,"end":10677.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10677.535343750002,"end":10679.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10679.57721875,"end":10683.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10684.20096875,"end":10684.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10684.52159375,"end":10684.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10684.79159375,"end":10686.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10686.00659375,"end":10689.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10689.820343750001,"end":10690.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10690.96784375,"end":10695.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10695.422843750002,"end":10698.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10699.40534375,"end":10703.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10704.315968750001,"end":10705.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10705.429718750001,"end":10706.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10706.50971875,"end":10706.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10706.94846875,"end":10708.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":10708.61909375,"end":10709.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10709.47971875,"end":10711.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10711.707218750002,"end":10716.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10717.731593750003,"end":10719.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10719.874718750001,"end":10725.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10725.71346875,"end":10727.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10727.70471875,"end":10729.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10730.94471875,"end":10732.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10732.969718750002,"end":10733.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10733.543468750002,"end":10733.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10733.62784375,"end":10733.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10733.864093750002,"end":10733.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10733.914718750002,"end":10734.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10734.25221875,"end":10734.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10734.437843750002,"end":10736.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10734.45471875,"end":10734.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10734.87659375,"end":10734.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10734.927218750003,"end":10734.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10736.918468750002,"end":10739.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10739.95596875,"end":10743.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10744.52909375,"end":10746.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10747.465343750002,"end":10750.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":10750.80659375,"end":10750.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10751.27909375,"end":10755.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10756.274093750002,"end":10759.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10760.10471875,"end":10761.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10762.500968750002,"end":10764.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10764.660968750002,"end":10765.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10764.711593750002,"end":10769.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10770.21284375,"end":10772.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10772.035343750002,"end":10772.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10772.44034375,"end":10774.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10775.157218750002,"end":10777.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10778.76846875,"end":10780.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10780.65846875,"end":10783.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10783.88159375,"end":10785.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10784.52284375,"end":10793.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10787.762843750003,"end":10788.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10789.93971875,"end":10790.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10797.870968750001,"end":10799.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10801.75221875,"end":10804.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10811.691593750002,"end":10816.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10815.640343750001,"end":10816.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10816.66971875,"end":10816.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10817.83409375,"end":10819.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10819.977218750002,"end":10820.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10824.70221875,"end":10825.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10825.343468750001,"end":10829.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10831.23284375,"end":10833.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10836.29534375,"end":10839.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10839.805343750002,"end":10839.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10839.87284375,"end":10839.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10839.974093750003,"end":10840.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10840.024718750003,"end":10840.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10840.36221875,"end":10840.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10841.83034375,"end":10842.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10843.433468750001,"end":10843.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10843.46721875,"end":10844.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10846.032218750002,"end":10847.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10847.871593750002,"end":10852.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10853.49096875,"end":10860.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10860.66284375,"end":10864.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10864.71284375,"end":10868.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10868.30721875,"end":10868.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10869.31971875,"end":10871.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10871.226593750001,"end":10872.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10873.21784375,"end":10881.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10881.68909375,"end":10886.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10886.70096875,"end":10889.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10888.77659375,"end":10892.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10892.57346875,"end":10906.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10906.52909375,"end":10906.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10906.815968750001,"end":10920.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10920.14721875,"end":10926.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10927.015343750001,"end":10927.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10927.504718750002,"end":10927.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10927.605968750002,"end":10927.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10927.774718750003,"end":10933.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10928.48346875,"end":10928.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10932.567218750002,"end":10947.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10946.57346875,"end":10949.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10948.750343750002,"end":10957.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10957.255343750003,"end":10960.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10959.465968750003,"end":10964.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10963.92096875,"end":10973.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10973.82659375,"end":10982.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10980.036593750003,"end":10980.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10980.930968750003,"end":10985.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10985.301593750002,"end":10986.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10985.47034375,"end":10990.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":10991.039093750001,"end":10994.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10994.65034375,"end":10994.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10995.56159375,"end":11017.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11002.24409375,"end":11003.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11017.12784375,"end":11028.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11019.16971875,"end":11019.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11027.438468750002,"end":11027.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11028.56909375,"end":11029.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11029.598468750002,"end":11033.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11033.85096875,"end":11034.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11034.964718750001,"end":11036.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11037.192218750002,"end":11040.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11041.84971875,"end":11043.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11044.296593750001,"end":11052.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11052.700343750003,"end":11052.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11053.172843750002,"end":11061.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11061.99846875,"end":11067.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11064.22596875,"end":11064.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11065.17096875,"end":11065.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11067.31409375,"end":11093.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11093.11596875,"end":11098.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11093.132843750001,"end":11093.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11097.250343750002,"end":11099.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11099.24159375,"end":11102.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11103.156593750002,"end":11103.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11104.101593750001,"end":11108.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11108.640968750002,"end":11112.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11111.003468750001,"end":11121.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11121.837218750003,"end":11127.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11128.199093750001,"end":11141.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11133.109718750002,"end":11133.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11133.379718750002,"end":11133.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11133.41346875,"end":11133.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11142.610343750002,"end":11143.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11144.43284375,"end":11162.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11160.91971875,"end":11161.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11163.24846875,"end":11167.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11168.14221875,"end":11169.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11169.67784375,"end":11175.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11177.204093750002,"end":11177.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11178.33471875,"end":11211.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11210.042843750001,"end":11215.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11213.13096875,"end":11215.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11215.71284375,"end":11215.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11215.76346875,"end":11215.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11215.83096875,"end":11215.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11215.898468750001,"end":11218.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11218.78409375,"end":11218.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11218.868468750003,"end":11218.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11218.93596875,"end":11218.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11219.121593750002,"end":11220.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11220.45471875,"end":11220.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11221.129718750002,"end":11221.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11222.496593750002,"end":11223.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11223.812843750002,"end":11226.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11227.255343750003,"end":11241.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11240.77221875,"end":11243.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11243.99534375,"end":11248.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11250.222218750001,"end":11251.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11252.83784375,"end":11254.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11255.75721875,"end":11261.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11256.195968750002,"end":11257.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11265.831593750001,"end":11273.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11275.770968750003,"end":11277.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11277.120968750001,"end":11280.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11280.95159375,"end":11286.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11287.17846875,"end":11289.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11290.33409375,"end":11291.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11292.44346875,"end":11296.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11297.050343750001,"end":11299.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11300.003468750001,"end":11302.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11303.10846875,"end":11305.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11307.37784375,"end":11307.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11309.099093750003,"end":11313.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11313.773468750001,"end":11316.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11317.722218750001,"end":11328.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":11328.640343750001,"end":11331.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11331.441593750002,"end":11331.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11335.22159375,"end":11336.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11340.840968750003,"end":11343.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11354.121593750002,"end":11356.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11365.32659375,"end":11368.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11368.44846875,"end":11392.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11392.934093750002,"end":11398.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11398.70534375,"end":11401.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11403.46409375,"end":11444.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11444.79096875,"end":11458.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11445.01034375,"end":11445.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11459.016593750002,"end":11461.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11461.66596875,"end":11464.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11464.484093750001,"end":11466.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11467.454093750002,"end":11504.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11503.00971875,"end":11528.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11528.84534375,"end":11530.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11530.80284375,"end":11530.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11530.90409375,"end":11533.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11530.988468750002,"end":11531.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11532.777218750001,"end":11553.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11553.297218750002,"end":11596.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11569.176593750002,"end":11569.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11582.457218750002,"end":11583.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11596.598468750002,"end":11596.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11596.699718750002,"end":11596.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11596.800968750002,"end":11600.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11596.817843750003,"end":11596.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11600.31096875,"end":11644.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11612.49471875,"end":11612.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11612.528468750003,"end":11612.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11612.96721875,"end":11613.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11644.422218750002,"end":11664.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11664.469718750002,"end":11667.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11668.06409375,"end":11697.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11697.56159375,"end":11704.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11704.446593750003,"end":11704.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":11704.480343750001,"end":11705.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11705.020343750002,"end":11722.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11721.574718750002,"end":11723.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11723.987843750001,"end":11726.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11727.39659375,"end":11743.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11740.559093750002,"end":11741.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11743.54596875,"end":11743.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11743.782218750002,"end":11754.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11755.122218750003,"end":11755.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11755.93221875,"end":11781.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11782.13909375,"end":11782.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11782.155968750001,"end":11794.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11794.96409375,"end":11832.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11832.004718750002,"end":11843.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11832.02159375,"end":11832.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11843.969093750002,"end":11851.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11851.02284375,"end":11869.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11869.551593750002,"end":11870.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11870.749718750001,"end":11909.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":11908.634093750003,"end":11908.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11908.65096875,"end":11910.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11914.86096875,"end":11918.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11930.43659375,"end":11934.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11940.679718750001,"end":11942.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11940.76409375,"end":11941.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11941.118468750003,"end":11941.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11943.329093750002,"end":11948.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11948.864093750002,"end":11950.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11950.73721875,"end":11958.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11959.54596875,"end":11972.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11973.012218750002,"end":11976.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11976.72471875,"end":11980.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11981.348468750002,"end":11982.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11982.563468750002,"end":11982.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11982.79971875,"end":11996.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11995.97909375,"end":12005.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12006.019718750002,"end":12007.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12008.11221875,"end":12009.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12009.394718750002,"end":12012.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12012.465968750003,"end":12019.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12020.430968750003,"end":12024.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12024.91971875,"end":12029.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12029.47596875,"end":12031.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12032.867843750002,"end":12033.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12033.32346875,"end":12033.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12033.981593750003,"end":12034.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12034.032218750002,"end":12034.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12034.16721875,"end":12034.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12034.184093750002,"end":12038.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12034.20096875,"end":12034.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12038.38596875,"end":12038.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12039.195968750002,"end":12040.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12040.90034375,"end":12045.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12046.65471875,"end":12052.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12053.10096875,"end":12054.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12054.51846875,"end":12057.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12058.433468750001,"end":12066.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12067.00596875,"end":12072.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12072.54096875,"end":12074.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12075.055343750002,"end":12080.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12075.645968750003,"end":12076.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12079.88159375,"end":12082.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12082.66596875,"end":12083.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12083.25659375,"end":12088.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12087.30659375,"end":12089.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12089.01096875,"end":12092.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12093.499718750001,"end":12096.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12096.65534375,"end":12098.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12099.43971875,"end":12100.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12101.17784375,"end":12110.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12110.172218750002,"end":12111.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12111.859718750002,"end":12111.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12111.960968750001,"end":12113.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12111.99471875,"end":12112.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12112.450343750003,"end":12112.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12114.644093750001,"end":12115.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12116.500343750002,"end":12117.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12118.407218750002,"end":12119.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12120.837218750003,"end":12124.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12125.44409375,"end":12127.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12128.515343750001,"end":12128.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12128.97096875,"end":12132.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12132.97034375,"end":12135.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12135.585968750001,"end":12140.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12140.024093750002,"end":12140.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12140.547218750002,"end":12140.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12140.715968750003,"end":12141.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12141.72846875,"end":12150.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12147.21284375,"end":12147.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12150.97596875,"end":12159.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12153.254093750002,"end":12153.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12153.743468750003,"end":12153.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12157.82721875,"end":12158.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12159.98721875,"end":12164.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12165.30284375,"end":12169.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12170.331593750001,"end":12173.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12173.89221875,"end":12176.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12177.081593750001,"end":12177.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12178.17846875,"end":12180.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12180.878468750001,"end":12181.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12181.80659375,"end":12189.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12190.024718750003,"end":12190.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12190.952843750001,"end":12200.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12200.571593750003,"end":12204.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12204.874718750001,"end":12205.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12205.95471875,"end":12209.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12209.97096875,"end":12215.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12215.910968750002,"end":12219.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12220.36596875,"end":12220.804718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12221.614718750003,"end":12223.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12223.825343750003,"end":12225.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12225.47909375,"end":12226.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12227.099093750003,"end":12227.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12227.976593750001,"end":12232.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12232.347218750001,"end":12285.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12286.094093750002,"end":12291.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12292.01721875,"end":12295.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12295.949093750001,"end":12306.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12306.37784375,"end":12311.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":12311.49096875,"end":12311.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12311.575343750003,"end":12323.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":12318.88221875,"end":12319.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12319.70909375,"end":12319.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12323.50596875,"end":12326.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12326.89784375,"end":12329.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12329.41221875,"end":12332.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12332.46659375,"end":12341.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12341.629718750002,"end":12344.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12345.105968750002,"end":12345.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12345.44346875,"end":12351.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12351.46784375,"end":12354.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12353.796593750001,"end":12358.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12358.487843750001,"end":12358.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12358.67346875,"end":12358.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12358.707218750002,"end":12364.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12361.440968750001,"end":12362.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12365.00159375,"end":12369.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12368.089718750001,"end":12368.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12368.106593750003,"end":12368.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":12368.12346875,"end":12369.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12369.60846875,"end":12378.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12369.91221875,"end":12369.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12378.653468750003,"end":12381.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12381.67409375,"end":12383.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12383.817218750002,"end":12386.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12386.972843750002,"end":12389.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12389.79096875,"end":12395.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12395.984093750001,"end":12430.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12430.847843750002,"end":12447.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12440.770343750002,"end":12441.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12446.946593750003,"end":12448.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12450.11909375,"end":12450.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12450.13596875,"end":12451.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12453.527843750002,"end":12456.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12458.35409375,"end":12458.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12467.399093750002,"end":12469.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12470.099093750003,"end":12470.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12478.367843750002,"end":12478.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12480.07221875,"end":12482.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12483.83534375,"end":12484.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12485.15159375,"end":12486.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12486.737843750001,"end":12490.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12488.020343750002,"end":12488.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12490.61909375,"end":12505.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12494.820968750002,"end":12495.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12499.22534375,"end":12499.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12499.259093750003,"end":12499.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12501.16596875,"end":12501.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12505.65471875,"end":12508.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12509.940968750001,"end":12515.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12516.488468750002,"end":12518.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12518.125343750002,"end":12518.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12518.547218750002,"end":12518.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12518.969093750002,"end":12520.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12521.80409375,"end":12526.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12527.153468750003,"end":12527.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12528.13221875,"end":12532.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12533.059718750003,"end":12535.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12535.81034375,"end":12539.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12541.328468750002,"end":12550.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12551.402843750002,"end":12560.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12561.51096875,"end":12562.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12562.590968750003,"end":12563.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12565.03784375,"end":12567.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12568.31159375,"end":12569.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12569.796593750001,"end":12571.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12571.905968750001,"end":12573.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12574.065968750001,"end":12575.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12575.770343750002,"end":12579.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12581.11971875,"end":12593.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12594.484718750002,"end":12596.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12597.488468750002,"end":12599.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12600.89721875,"end":12604.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12605.16659375,"end":12605.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12606.415343750003,"end":12610.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12611.02221875,"end":12617.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12618.66659375,"end":12629.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12630.563468750002,"end":12634.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12635.32221875,"end":12669.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":12641.009093750003,"end":12641.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12646.71284375,"end":12647.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12651.859718750002,"end":12653.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":12662.035343750002,"end":12662.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12669.17346875,"end":12674.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12671.046593750001,"end":12672.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12674.50596875,"end":12676.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12677.15534375,"end":12680.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12681.99846875,"end":12720.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12720.304718750001,"end":12722.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12722.97096875,"end":12725.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12725.14784375,"end":12727.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12727.392218750003,"end":12729.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12728.860343750002,"end":12731.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12729.012218750002,"end":12729.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12729.29909375,"end":12729.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12729.45096875,"end":12730.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12731.222843750002,"end":12732.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12731.88096875,"end":12732.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12732.606593750003,"end":12737.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12734.47971875,"end":12734.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12734.597843750002,"end":12734.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12734.78346875,"end":12735.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12735.137843750003,"end":12735.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12735.37409375,"end":12735.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12735.492218750001,"end":12735.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12735.964718750001,"end":12736.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12736.724093750003,"end":12737.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12737.230343750001,"end":12742.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12742.79909375,"end":12745.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12745.954718750003,"end":12747.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12747.96284375,"end":12747.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12748.097843750002,"end":12749.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12749.97096875,"end":12751.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12752.468468750001,"end":12754.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12755.57346875,"end":12756.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12756.77159375,"end":12758.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12758.695343750001,"end":12760.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12760.821593750003,"end":12763.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12763.74096875,"end":12770.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12770.305343750002,"end":12775.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12775.77284375,"end":12780.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12780.49784375,"end":12793.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12794.16659375,"end":12799.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12800.32596875,"end":12813.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12813.89346875,"end":12816.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12816.829718750003,"end":12820.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12821.79096875,"end":12822.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12822.398468750001,"end":12826.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12827.02221875,"end":12830.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12831.156593750002,"end":12833.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12834.480968750002,"end":12837.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12838.024718750003,"end":12848.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12838.159718750001,"end":12838.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12839.03721875,"end":12839.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12843.610343750002,"end":12843.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12848.21721875,"end":12848.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12848.75721875,"end":12848.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12848.84159375,"end":12853.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12848.976593750001,"end":12849.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12853.954718750003,"end":12856.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12856.789718750002,"end":12859.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12860.384093750003,"end":12863.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12864.231593750003,"end":12865.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12867.539093750001,"end":12870.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12871.335968750001,"end":12873.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12874.086593750002,"end":12874.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12875.132843750001,"end":12878.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12878.727218750002,"end":12880.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12880.667843750001,"end":12881.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12882.86159375,"end":12885.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12886.118468750003,"end":12886.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12887.56971875,"end":12893.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12894.30284375,"end":12895.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12895.51784375,"end":12898.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12899.280968750001,"end":12901.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12903.077843750001,"end":12908.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12908.528468750003,"end":12910.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12910.485968750003,"end":12911.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12911.464718750001,"end":12916.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12917.08409375,"end":12918.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12918.923468750003,"end":12926.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12926.78721875,"end":12927.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12928.862843750001,"end":12930.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12930.415343750003,"end":12939.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12939.409718750001,"end":12941.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12943.67909375,"end":12949.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12949.973468750002,"end":12952.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12952.673468750003,"end":12954.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12952.707218750002,"end":12953.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12954.141593750002,"end":12964.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12954.512843750003,"end":12955.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12955.879718750002,"end":12956.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12961.38096875,"end":12961.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12964.43534375,"end":12969.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12969.902843750002,"end":12969.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12969.953468750002,"end":12972.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12969.98721875,"end":12970.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12972.88971875,"end":12979.673468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12979.032218750002,"end":12979.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12979.673468750003,"end":12982.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12982.812218750001,"end":12983.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12983.504093750002,"end":12993.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":12994.08471875,"end":12997.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12998.99534375,"end":13000.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13001.610968750003,"end":13002.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13003.484093750001,"end":13003.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13004.42909375,"end":13007.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13008.344093750002,"end":13012.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13013.44034375,"end":13020.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13021.23659375,"end":13021.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13021.65846875,"end":13022.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13023.160343750002,"end":13042.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13042.161593750003,"end":13047.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13048.03409375,"end":13061.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13061.399093750002,"end":13061.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13061.753468750001,"end":13062.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13063.32284375,"end":13065.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13065.43221875,"end":13065.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13065.449093750001,"end":13065.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13065.499718750001,"end":13065.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13065.786593750003,"end":13065.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13065.820343750001,"end":13065.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13066.07346875,"end":13066.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13067.38971875,"end":13068.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13068.63846875,"end":13069.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13069.81971875,"end":13070.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13071.203468750002,"end":13074.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13075.962218750003,"end":13076.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13076.839718750001,"end":13079.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13081.024718750003,"end":13081.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13081.429718750001,"end":13083.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13084.804718750001,"end":13089.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13089.63096875,"end":13089.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13089.782843750003,"end":13089.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13089.816593750002,"end":13090.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13090.00221875,"end":13092.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13092.786593750003,"end":13092.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13093.05659375,"end":13099.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13100.49846875,"end":13102.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13103.02971875,"end":13107.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13108.109093750001,"end":13111.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13111.88909375,"end":13111.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13111.905968750001,"end":13111.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13111.973468750002,"end":13112.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13112.024093750002,"end":13117.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13112.192843750003,"end":13112.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13113.222218750001,"end":13113.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13113.239093750002,"end":13113.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13113.441593750002,"end":13113.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13115.753468750001,"end":13115.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13118.16659375,"end":13120.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13118.43659375,"end":13118.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13119.195968750002,"end":13122.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13120.883468750002,"end":13121.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13121.895968750003,"end":13127.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13128.645968750003,"end":13133.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13132.054718750001,"end":13132.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13132.122218750003,"end":13132.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13132.746593750002,"end":13132.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13132.814093750003,"end":13133.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13133.961593750002,"end":13134.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13134.079718750003,"end":13134.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13134.09659375,"end":13134.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13134.24846875,"end":13134.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13134.29909375,"end":13134.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13134.434093750002,"end":13134.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13134.87284375,"end":13134.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13134.974093750003,"end":13134.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":13135.227218750002,"end":13136.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13137.083468750003,"end":13141.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13155.03846875,"end":13158.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13158.88596875,"end":13159.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13168.26846875,"end":13169.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13169.601593750001,"end":13190.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13184.789093750001,"end":13184.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13184.856593750003,"end":13185.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13190.47596875,"end":13221.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13220.51346875,"end":13220.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13221.863468750002,"end":13229.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13230.368468750003,"end":13233.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13234.114718750003,"end":13245.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13247.378468750001,"end":13247.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13248.762218750002,"end":13250.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13250.517218750003,"end":13274.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13274.142218750003,"end":13280.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13280.099093750003,"end":13297.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13286.460968750001,"end":13286.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13297.61534375,"end":13304.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13304.280968750001,"end":13311.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13311.85784375,"end":13313.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13313.39346875,"end":13320.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13320.582218750002,"end":13326.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13326.67409375,"end":13327.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13326.707843750002,"end":13328.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13327.88909375,"end":13329.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13329.20534375,"end":13329.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13330.11659375,"end":13332.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13332.52971875,"end":13333.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13333.305968750003,"end":13369.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13333.339718750001,"end":13333.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13369.80659375,"end":13385.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13384.724093750003,"end":13397.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13397.312843750002,"end":13410.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13413.31034375,"end":13492.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13494.242843750002,"end":13495.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13495.52534375,"end":13499.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13500.047843750002,"end":13508.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13508.02971875,"end":13508.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13508.265968750002,"end":13509.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13509.02534375,"end":13528.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13528.718468750001,"end":13529.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13530.08534375,"end":13574.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13574.46659375,"end":13582.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":13582.07721875,"end":13582.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13582.161593750003,"end":13582.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13586.144093750001,"end":13588.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13588.03409375,"end":13596.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":13597.21409375,"end":13597.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13597.230968750002,"end":13613.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13613.65034375,"end":13614.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13614.848468750002,"end":13616.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13616.519093750001,"end":13641.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13641.578468750002,"end":13649.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13649.172218750002,"end":13650.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13650.62346875,"end":13658.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13654.36971875,"end":13654.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13654.386593750001,"end":13654.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13654.707218750002,"end":13654.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13658.706593750001,"end":13660.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13661.001593750003,"end":13667.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13667.380343750003,"end":13727.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13727.421593750001,"end":13747.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13747.469093750002,"end":13747.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13747.485968750003,"end":13749.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13748.92034375,"end":13757.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13751.23221875,"end":13751.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13757.77971875,"end":13775.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13766.875343750002,"end":13767.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13773.01784375,"end":13773.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13775.81909375,"end":13787.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13787.547218750002,"end":13787.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13787.63159375,"end":13788.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13789.504718750002,"end":13790.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13789.62284375,"end":13792.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13792.05284375,"end":13799.376593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13796.153468750003,"end":13796.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13796.17034375,"end":13796.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13796.187218750001,"end":13796.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13796.204093750002,"end":13796.423468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13797.55409375,"end":13799.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13799.376593750003,"end":13804.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13814.378468750001,"end":13826.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":13824.33471875,"end":13824.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13826.882843750001,"end":13826.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13838.847218750001,"end":13839.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13841.344718750002,"end":13854.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13855.148468750001,"end":13862.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13862.82659375,"end":13863.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13864.61534375,"end":13865.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13865.796593750001,"end":13872.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13868.125343750002,"end":13868.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13869.070343750001,"end":13869.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13872.884093750003,"end":13876.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13879.566593750002,"end":13880.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13880.74784375,"end":13881.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13882.064093750003,"end":13885.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13885.08471875,"end":13887.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13887.362843750001,"end":13889.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13887.379718750002,"end":13888.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":13889.387843750003,"end":13889.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13889.657843750003,"end":13889.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13889.97846875,"end":13892.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13891.058468750001,"end":13893.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":13893.10034375,"end":13897.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13897.184093750002,"end":13899.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13900.37346875,"end":13905.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13906.00971875,"end":13911.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13912.000343750002,"end":13914.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13914.750968750002,"end":13921.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13921.93971875,"end":13926.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13926.64784375,"end":13926.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13927.27221875,"end":13928.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13928.402843750002,"end":13929.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13928.41971875,"end":13929.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13931.305343750002,"end":13932.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13933.161593750003,"end":13937.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13933.17846875,"end":13934.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13938.46034375,"end":13938.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13938.696593750003,"end":13939.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13940.738468750002,"end":13942.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13943.219093750002,"end":13944.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13945.395968750003,"end":13946.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13946.695343750001,"end":13947.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13949.175968750002,"end":13950.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13951.53846875,"end":13952.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13953.563468750002,"end":13956.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13957.292843750001,"end":13960.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13961.258468750002,"end":13965.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13965.91596875,"end":13973.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13973.492843750002,"end":13974.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13973.89784375,"end":13976.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13976.344718750002,"end":13978.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13978.977218750002,"end":13981.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13982.200343750003,"end":13983.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13984.22534375,"end":13987.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13987.769093750001,"end":13990.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13990.77284375,"end":13994.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":13995.02534375,"end":14000.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14002.09596875,"end":14002.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14003.20971875,"end":14008.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14007.715343750002,"end":14011.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14008.289093750001,"end":14008.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14013.33471875,"end":14015.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14015.32596875,"end":14019.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14019.747218750003,"end":14022.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14022.46409375,"end":14024.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14025.130343750003,"end":14031.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14032.16721875,"end":14033.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14034.867218750001,"end":14036.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14037.33096875,"end":14040.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14040.06471875,"end":14041.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14042.12346875,"end":14044.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14044.637843750003,"end":14046.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14046.44346875,"end":14047.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14047.574093750001,"end":14053.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14053.159718750001,"end":14053.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14053.51409375,"end":14053.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14053.530968750001,"end":14054.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14055.977843750003,"end":14058.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14059.015343750001,"end":14065.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14066.237843750001,"end":14067.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14069.106593750003,"end":14077.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14078.050343750001,"end":14080.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14080.075343750003,"end":14080.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14080.547843750002,"end":14092.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14081.189093750003,"end":14081.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14082.032843750003,"end":14082.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14087.500343750002,"end":14088.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14092.05659375,"end":14092.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14092.96784375,"end":14097.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14098.317218750002,"end":14105.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14105.860343750002,"end":14106.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14106.29909375,"end":14107.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14108.239718750003,"end":14112.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14112.79596875,"end":14113.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14113.386593750001,"end":14115.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14115.816593750002,"end":14117.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14118.364718750003,"end":14123.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14123.49471875,"end":14126.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14127.12284375,"end":14128.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14128.55721875,"end":14129.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14130.14346875,"end":14131.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14131.98284375,"end":14133.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14135.391593750002,"end":14135.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14135.442218750002,"end":14135.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14135.94846875,"end":14136.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14136.707843750002,"end":14137.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14136.72471875,"end":14137.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14138.175968750002,"end":14144.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14143.559093750002,"end":14144.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14144.200343750003,"end":14144.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14144.21721875,"end":14152.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14144.976593750001,"end":14146.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14152.01346875,"end":14155.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14156.282843750003,"end":14159.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14159.97846875,"end":14161.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14162.189093750003,"end":14166.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14166.509093750003,"end":14169.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14169.884093750003,"end":14171.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14171.74034375,"end":14181.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14181.696593750003,"end":14191.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14191.230968750002,"end":14199.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14199.938468750002,"end":14200.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14200.54596875,"end":14202.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14202.503468750001,"end":14202.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14202.58784375,"end":14202.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14202.70596875,"end":14202.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14202.773468750001,"end":14207.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14208.409718750001,"end":14210.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14210.519093750001,"end":14212.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14212.577843750001,"end":14215.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14215.446593750003,"end":14216.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14216.72909375,"end":14217.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14217.707843750002,"end":14218.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14219.395343750002,"end":14219.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14220.00284375,"end":14220.829718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14221.16721875,"end":14228.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14228.44034375,"end":14228.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14228.558468750001,"end":14229.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14229.97596875,"end":14230.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14230.48221875,"end":14230.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14230.785968750002,"end":14232.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14232.051593750002,"end":14236.439093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14242.024718750003,"end":14244.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14244.336593750002,"end":14245.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14250.85034375,"end":14251.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14251.238468750002,"end":14251.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14251.609718750002,"end":14266.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14267.235968750003,"end":14311.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14311.937843750002,"end":14317.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14317.962218750003,"end":14322.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14322.130343750003,"end":14326.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14326.09596875,"end":14331.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14331.360968750003,"end":14336.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14336.32221875,"end":14340.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14340.16971875,"end":14346.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14345.265968750002,"end":14353.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14354.26034375,"end":14354.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14354.294093750003,"end":14354.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14354.378468750001,"end":14354.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14354.766593750002,"end":14356.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14354.78346875,"end":14355.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14356.977218750002,"end":14357.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14357.26409375,"end":14357.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14357.280968750001,"end":14357.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14357.550968750002,"end":14360.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14361.314093750003,"end":14370.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14369.312843750002,"end":14369.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14369.329718750003,"end":14371.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14371.13534375,"end":14373.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14372.02971875,"end":14375.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14375.286593750003,"end":14382.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14381.90159375,"end":14385.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14385.10784375,"end":14390.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14386.778468750003,"end":14387.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14388.870968750001,"end":14393.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14393.86596875,"end":14406.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14394.55784375,"end":14394.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14405.864093750002,"end":14407.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14407.922843750002,"end":14408.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14408.20971875,"end":14409.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14409.964718750001,"end":14413.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14413.727843750003,"end":14416.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14417.001593750003,"end":14428.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14429.472218750001,"end":14436.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14436.69471875,"end":14437.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14438.41596875,"end":14438.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14438.43284375,"end":14439.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14438.58471875,"end":14439.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14439.495968750001,"end":14445.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14445.13221875,"end":14449.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14450.02596875,"end":14455.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14455.915343750003,"end":14484.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14455.965968750003,"end":14456.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14485.227218750002,"end":14486.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14486.08784375,"end":14489.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14488.382843750001,"end":14488.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14489.36159375,"end":14492.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14492.652218750001,"end":14493.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14494.47471875,"end":14507.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14503.097843750002,"end":14510.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14510.742218750001,"end":14519.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14520.495968750001,"end":14520.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14520.74909375,"end":14520.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14520.816593750002,"end":14522.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14520.85034375,"end":14522.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14522.942843750003,"end":14526.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14526.21659375,"end":14543.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14528.91659375,"end":14529.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14531.042843750001,"end":14531.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14543.699093750001,"end":14544.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14544.492218750001,"end":14551.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14544.74534375,"end":14544.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14550.16221875,"end":14552.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14552.237843750001,"end":14583.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14584.199093750001,"end":14589.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14588.519093750001,"end":14588.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14590.155968750001,"end":14591.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14592.383468750002,"end":14594.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14594.391593750002,"end":14595.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14595.977843750003,"end":14596.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14596.281593750002,"end":14597.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14597.93534375,"end":14598.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14598.35721875,"end":14614.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14598.42471875,"end":14598.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14598.458468750003,"end":14598.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14614.860968750003,"end":14615.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14615.02971875,"end":14615.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14615.65409375,"end":14615.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14615.99159375,"end":14616.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14616.02534375,"end":14616.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14617.45971875,"end":14620.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14620.868468750003,"end":14623.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14622.657218750002,"end":14622.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14624.496593750002,"end":14625.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14625.89721875,"end":14628.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14628.411593750003,"end":14632.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14628.546593750001,"end":14628.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14633.102843750003,"end":14633.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14633.11971875,"end":14634.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14634.047843750002,"end":14634.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14634.58784375,"end":14634.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14634.97596875,"end":14649.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14649.94409375,"end":14651.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14651.243468750003,"end":14653.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14653.082843750002,"end":14658.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14656.74471875,"end":14657.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14658.80346875,"end":14659.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14659.613468750002,"end":14670.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14662.684718750003,"end":14662.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14669.839718750001,"end":14671.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14670.61596875,"end":14673.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14673.855968750002,"end":14679.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14680.16721875,"end":14681.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14681.04471875,"end":14681.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14681.06159375,"end":14683.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14681.21346875,"end":14681.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14684.84159375,"end":14685.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14685.01034375,"end":14685.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14685.027218750001,"end":14685.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14685.06096875,"end":14685.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14685.094718750002,"end":14685.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14685.128468750001,"end":14688.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":14686.090343750002,"end":14687.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14690.089718750001,"end":14691.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14692.38471875,"end":14692.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":14693.414093750001,"end":14696.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14720.34659375,"end":14723.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14728.159718750001,"end":14728.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14728.750343750002,"end":14728.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14729.25659375,"end":14773.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14773.97534375,"end":14783.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14784.015968750002,"end":14784.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14784.79221875,"end":14789.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14789.297843750002,"end":14796.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14790.90096875,"end":14791.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14796.65534375,"end":14799.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14799.91221875,"end":14801.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14801.12721875,"end":14803.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14803.35471875,"end":14807.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14807.57346875,"end":14815.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14814.964718750001,"end":14825.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14818.22159375,"end":14818.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14826.18659375,"end":14830.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14830.38846875,"end":14833.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14834.286593750003,"end":14836.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14836.46346875,"end":14836.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14836.480343750001,"end":14836.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14837.239718750003,"end":14837.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14837.273468750001,"end":14842.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14837.391593750002,"end":14837.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14841.829718750003,"end":14843.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":14843.145968750003,"end":14845.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14844.917843750001,"end":14854.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14852.950343750003,"end":14856.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14856.375968750002,"end":14856.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14856.409718750001,"end":14856.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14856.49409375,"end":14857.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14857.08471875,"end":14878.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14878.43159375,"end":14880.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14880.96284375,"end":14892.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14892.032843750003,"end":14892.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14892.336593750002,"end":14896.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14893.551593750002,"end":14893.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14893.56846875,"end":14896.251593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14896.251593750003,"end":14896.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14896.977218750002,"end":14907.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14908.047218750002,"end":14911.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":14909.61659375,"end":14935.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14935.03034375,"end":14937.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14938.489718750003,"end":14949.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14947.298468750003,"end":14947.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":14948.985968750003,"end":14949.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14949.72846875,"end":14956.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14954.53784375,"end":14957.204093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14957.204093750002,"end":14998.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14959.12784375,"end":14961.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14998.800968750002,"end":14999.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14999.273468750001,"end":14999.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":14999.391593750002,"end":14999.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14999.982218750003,"end":15006.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15006.023468750001,"end":15009.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15009.769718750002,"end":15022.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15022.67909375,"end":15026.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15024.450968750003,"end":15025.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15026.172218750002,"end":15034.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15035.06534375,"end":15039.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15040.07721875,"end":15100.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15100.92846875,"end":15109.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15109.804718750001,"end":15118.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15119.085968750001,"end":15127.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15127.810343750003,"end":15136.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15136.062218750001,"end":15136.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15138.390968750002,"end":15139.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15139.16721875,"end":15139.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15140.41596875,"end":15140.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15140.449718750002,"end":15144.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15141.90096875,"end":15142.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15143.453468750002,"end":15143.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15143.976593750001,"end":15144.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15145.05659375,"end":15152.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15150.86159375,"end":15151.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15152.92034375,"end":15152.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15152.954093750002,"end":15155.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15155.586593750002,"end":15156.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15156.126593750003,"end":15164.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15164.699093750001,"end":15206.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15206.59971875,"end":15206.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15206.61659375,"end":15207.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15206.886593750001,"end":15207.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15207.831593750001,"end":15212.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15212.269718750002,"end":15213.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15213.585968750001,"end":15213.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15214.41284375,"end":15233.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15230.76471875,"end":15232.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15232.519718750002,"end":15232.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":15233.44784375,"end":15233.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15233.464718750001,"end":15237.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15238.999718750001,"end":15241.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15250.356593750003,"end":15252.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15252.887843750003,"end":15254.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15255.65534375,"end":15257.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15263.13096875,"end":15264.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15265.72971875,"end":15268.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15269.712218750003,"end":15284.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15284.477843750003,"end":15287.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15287.532218750002,"end":15289.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15289.55721875,"end":15289.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15290.114093750002,"end":15300.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15301.16721875,"end":15316.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15316.70909375,"end":15317.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15317.77221875,"end":15319.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15319.83096875,"end":15325.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15325.58534375,"end":15326.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15328.31909375,"end":15329.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15330.192218750002,"end":15333.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15334.107218750003,"end":15337.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15338.055968750003,"end":15338.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15339.743468750003,"end":15343.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15344.063468750002,"end":15346.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15347.117843750002,"end":15348.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15349.800968750002,"end":15350.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15350.50971875,"end":15361.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15364.22909375,"end":15366.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15367.70534375,"end":15369.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15369.949718750002,"end":15373.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15373.577843750001,"end":15375.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15376.767218750003,"end":15377.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15377.712218750003,"end":15381.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15381.05346875,"end":15388.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15388.42784375,"end":15388.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15389.06909375,"end":15391.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15391.836593750002,"end":15392.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15392.309093750002,"end":15405.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15406.112843750001,"end":15435.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15435.964718750001,"end":15440.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":15440.01471875,"end":15440.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15440.26784375,"end":15444.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15444.70596875,"end":15444.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15444.824093750001,"end":15444.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15444.874718750001,"end":15446.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15446.427218750003,"end":15447.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15446.460968750001,"end":15446.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15448.266593750002,"end":15460.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15449.093468750001,"end":15449.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15457.750343750002,"end":15458.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15459.876593750003,"end":15461.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15460.88909375,"end":15466.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15465.074093750001,"end":15473.427218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15468.60096875,"end":15468.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15472.92096875,"end":15473.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15473.427218750003,"end":15475.485968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15475.958468750003,"end":15476.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15476.009093750003,"end":15482.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15480.51471875,"end":15481.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15482.235968750003,"end":15493.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15494.48721875,"end":15494.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15495.347843750002,"end":15496.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15497.558468750001,"end":15504.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15504.004718750002,"end":15506.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15506.19846875,"end":15509.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15509.421593750001,"end":15518.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15518.078468750002,"end":15518.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15518.179718750001,"end":15535.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":15518.196593750003,"end":15518.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15535.98284375,"end":15536.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15537.19784375,"end":15537.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15537.974093750003,"end":15538.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15540.758468750002,"end":15547.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15548.149718750003,"end":15549.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15549.989093750002,"end":15574.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15560.45159375,"end":15560.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15574.47471875,"end":15578.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15578.81159375,"end":15587.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15587.02971875,"end":15602.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15589.35846875,"end":15590.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15590.961593750002,"end":15591.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15591.079718750003,"end":15591.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15591.09659375,"end":15591.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15602.841593750003,"end":15603.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15603.044093750003,"end":15614.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15613.489718750003,"end":15613.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15614.417843750001,"end":15614.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15614.45159375,"end":15619.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15619.109093750001,"end":15628.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15628.930343750002,"end":15633.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15633.13221875,"end":15633.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15633.149093750002,"end":15646.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15644.320343750001,"end":15644.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15645.09659375,"end":15645.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15645.14721875,"end":15645.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15646.075343750003,"end":15646.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15646.429718750001,"end":15646.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15646.46346875,"end":15648.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15646.497218750003,"end":15646.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15646.530968750001,"end":15647.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15647.45909375,"end":15647.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15647.88096875,"end":15648.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15648.015968750002,"end":15650.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15648.437843750002,"end":15648.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15650.445968750002,"end":15651.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15651.593468750001,"end":15651.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15651.610343750002,"end":15653.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15653.48346875,"end":15654.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15654.27659375,"end":15664.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15660.672218750002,"end":15660.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15664.435343750003,"end":15666.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15666.207218750002,"end":15680.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15667.60784375,"end":15668.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15670.324718750002,"end":15670.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15680.85471875,"end":15683.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15683.875343750002,"end":15702.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15689.59596875,"end":15689.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15689.629718750002,"end":15689.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15701.695343750001,"end":15705.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15707.06159375,"end":15715.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15716.258468750002,"end":15721.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15721.962218750003,"end":15733.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15733.622843750003,"end":15757.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15747.375968750002,"end":15747.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15747.44346875,"end":15747.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15747.71346875,"end":15747.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15757.63596875,"end":15795.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15776.654093750003,"end":15776.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15778.03784375,"end":15778.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15796.38096875,"end":15812.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15812.918468750002,"end":15814.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15812.969093750002,"end":15813.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15814.825343750003,"end":15815.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":15815.83784375,"end":15827.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15825.625343750002,"end":15827.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15827.59971875,"end":15829.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":15831.86909375,"end":15833.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15846.195968750002,"end":15848.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15852.945968750002,"end":15854.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15854.92034375,"end":15858.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15858.379718750002,"end":15866.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15866.935343750003,"end":15872.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15872.655968750001,"end":15890.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15891.184718750003,"end":15955.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15955.950968750003,"end":15958.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15958.161593750003,"end":15965.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15965.67096875,"end":15968.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15969.14721875,"end":15973.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15974.63159375,"end":15992.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15992.62034375,"end":15997.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":15997.547843750002,"end":16051.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16052.03721875,"end":16054.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16054.720343750003,"end":16075.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16076.35409375,"end":16077.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16078.61534375,"end":16119.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16119.739718750003,"end":16131.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16125.578468750002,"end":16126.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16129.915343750003,"end":16130.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16131.737843750001,"end":16133.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16133.47596875,"end":16133.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16133.644718750002,"end":16142.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16133.661593750003,"end":16133.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":16142.031593750002,"end":16144.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16146.267218750003,"end":16148.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16149.08534375,"end":16151.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16158.19784375,"end":16160.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16166.68596875,"end":16167.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16168.06971875,"end":16177.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16178.380343750003,"end":16179.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16179.71346875,"end":16183.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16183.020968750003,"end":16185.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16185.72096875,"end":16185.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16185.737843750001,"end":16188.235343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16187.50971875,"end":16189.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16189.58534375,"end":16191.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16190.125343750002,"end":16191.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16194.411593750003,"end":16195.626593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16195.626593750003,"end":16207.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16195.64346875,"end":16195.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16195.997843750003,"end":16196.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16196.06534375,"end":16197.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16207.97909375,"end":16208.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16210.03784375,"end":16216.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16216.93971875,"end":16235.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16229.02221875,"end":16231.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16235.805968750003,"end":16237.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16236.66659375,"end":16237.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16237.324718750002,"end":16237.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16237.35846875,"end":16237.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16237.392218750003,"end":16237.814093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16237.645343750002,"end":16237.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16237.814093750003,"end":16239.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16241.57721875,"end":16242.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16243.382843750001,"end":16245.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16247.196593750003,"end":16255.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16251.027218750001,"end":16251.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16254.824093750001,"end":16255.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16255.769093750001,"end":16257.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16257.422843750002,"end":16265.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16265.25284375,"end":16265.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16265.45534375,"end":16276.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16276.457843750002,"end":16276.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16276.49159375,"end":16277.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16276.727843750003,"end":16278.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16277.58846875,"end":16283.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16283.66346875,"end":16283.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16283.984093750001,"end":16303.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":16293.231593750003,"end":16293.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16293.56909375,"end":16293.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16303.289093750001,"end":16305.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16305.347843750002,"end":16310.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16307.28846875,"end":16308.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16311.169718750003,"end":16313.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16311.81096875,"end":16313.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16313.987843750001,"end":16320.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16320.501593750003,"end":16329.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16329.74909375,"end":16331.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16332.027218750001,"end":16334.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16334.980343750001,"end":16340.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16340.97096875,"end":16366.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16344.46409375,"end":16344.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":16350.67409375,"end":16351.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":16357.22159375,"end":16357.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16357.32284375,"end":16358.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16366.300343750001,"end":16374.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16373.691593750002,"end":16392.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16375.125968750002,"end":16377.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16378.652843750002,"end":16379.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16392.068468750003,"end":16392.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16392.65909375,"end":16413.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16406.46284375,"end":16406.530343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16406.530343749997,"end":16406.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16406.69909375,"end":16407.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16411.08659375,"end":16418.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16418.022218750004,"end":16420.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16420.637843750003,"end":16422.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16421.262218750002,"end":16426.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16425.109718749998,"end":16426.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16426.39221875,"end":16430.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16428.788468749997,"end":16433.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16433.091593750003,"end":16452.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16446.23721875,"end":16446.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16452.02534375,"end":16453.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16453.81409375,"end":16455.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16455.248468750004,"end":16456.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16456.277843750002,"end":16459.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16458.48846875,"end":16459.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16459.18034375,"end":16459.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16459.21409375,"end":16459.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16459.39971875,"end":16460.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16460.02409375,"end":16460.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16460.05784375,"end":16464.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16460.091593750003,"end":16460.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16460.17596875,"end":16460.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16462.06596875,"end":16462.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16462.082843750002,"end":16462.538468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16462.538468749997,"end":16462.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16462.605968750002,"end":16463.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16465.170968749997,"end":16468.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16469.11971875,"end":16470.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16470.773468749998,"end":16473.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16473.270968750003,"end":16475.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16476.29159375,"end":16476.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16477.21971875,"end":16485.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16484.72909375,"end":16486.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16486.889093750004,"end":16489.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16488.559718750003,"end":16489.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16489.437218749998,"end":16489.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16489.521593750003,"end":16490.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16490.97284375,"end":16490.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16490.989718750003,"end":16491.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16491.512843750003,"end":16491.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16492.01909375,"end":16494.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16492.052843750003,"end":16492.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16494.43221875,"end":16496.389718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16496.085968749998,"end":16525.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":16497.68909375,"end":16498.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16521.989093750002,"end":16522.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16522.562843749998,"end":16522.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16523.609093749998,"end":16523.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16523.64284375,"end":16523.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16523.65971875,"end":16523.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16523.84534375,"end":16523.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16527.22034375,"end":16529.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16530.40971875,"end":16532.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16540.61909375,"end":16542.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16547.58846875,"end":16548.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16551.79034375,"end":16552.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16553.15721875,"end":16558.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16558.793468750002,"end":16560.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16560.632843749998,"end":16569.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16569.593468749998,"end":16577.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16577.96346875,"end":16579.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16580.27534375,"end":16581.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16582.334093750003,"end":16583.717843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16584.79784375,"end":16589.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16589.505968750003,"end":16591.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16592.00346875,"end":16595.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16596.053468750004,"end":16597.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16598.71971875,"end":16600.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16601.38596875,"end":16603.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16603.410968750002,"end":16606.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16606.76909375,"end":16609.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16609.51971875,"end":16610.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16611.05534375,"end":16612.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16612.77659375,"end":16615.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16616.05034375,"end":16617.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16618.96971875,"end":16620.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16620.87659375,"end":16622.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16622.02409375,"end":16622.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16622.817218750002,"end":16623.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16624.015343749998,"end":16631.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16628.217218750004,"end":16628.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16628.89221875,"end":16629.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16629.51659375,"end":16629.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16630.39409375,"end":16631.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16631.96346875,"end":16632.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16632.50346875,"end":16632.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16633.279718750004,"end":16636.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16635.01784375,"end":16636.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16637.312843749998,"end":16640.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16639.05096875,"end":16640.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16640.92409375,"end":16647.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16648.01159375,"end":16649.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16649.969093749998,"end":16650.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16650.94784375,"end":16651.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16651.67346875,"end":16652.061593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16652.584718750004,"end":16656.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16657.731593750003,"end":16659.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16659.90846875,"end":16661.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16661.039093749998,"end":16661.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16661.25846875,"end":16661.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16661.967218750004,"end":16669.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16669.746593750002,"end":16669.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16671.41721875,"end":16671.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16671.434093750002,"end":16673.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16674.741593749997,"end":16677.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16677.239093750002,"end":16678.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16679.348468750002,"end":16692.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16692.780968749998,"end":16693.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16693.101593749998,"end":16694.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16694.772218750004,"end":16697.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16700.020343750002,"end":16701.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16701.03284375,"end":16702.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16702.770968750003,"end":16702.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16702.804718749998,"end":16706.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16706.685968750004,"end":16711.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16711.107218750003,"end":16721.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16721.367218749998,"end":16725.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16726.075343750003,"end":16727.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16727.965343750002,"end":16729.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16729.82159375,"end":16731.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16732.03221875,"end":16734.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16734.732218750003,"end":16737.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16737.398468749998,"end":16742.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16742.039093749998,"end":16753.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16751.742218749998,"end":16751.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16751.77596875,"end":16752.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16752.147218750004,"end":16752.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16752.569093750004,"end":16752.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16752.70409375,"end":16752.872843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16753.37909375,"end":16753.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16753.96971875,"end":16754.155343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16754.155343749997,"end":16754.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16754.18909375,"end":16754.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16754.762843750003,"end":16754.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16754.965343750002,"end":16755.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16755.505343750003,"end":16755.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16755.89346875,"end":16758.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16759.015343749998,"end":16761.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16761.27659375,"end":16765.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16765.765343749998,"end":16767.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16768.53284375,"end":16771.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16771.58721875,"end":16774.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16774.55721875,"end":16780.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16780.46346875,"end":16791.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16792.343468749998,"end":16793.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16794.452843749998,"end":16797.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16797.03471875,"end":16797.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16798.249718749998,"end":16798.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16798.26659375,"end":16799.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16799.86971875,"end":16810.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16808.442218750002,"end":16810.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16810.905968749998,"end":16813.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16814.09534375,"end":16816.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16817.67284375,"end":16821.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16821.79034375,"end":16827.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16827.780968749998,"end":16829.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16829.350343750004,"end":16831.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16831.763468750003,"end":16834.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16834.615343750003,"end":16836.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16837.31534375,"end":16841.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16841.888468750003,"end":16848.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16849.34721875,"end":16850.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16850.528468750003,"end":16855.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16856.19846875,"end":16859.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16860.788468749997,"end":16861.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16861.952843749998,"end":16869.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16870.052843750003,"end":16880.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16881.69659375,"end":16887.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16888.075343750003,"end":16890.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16890.825968750003,"end":16894.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16894.724093750003,"end":16895.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16896.24284375,"end":16905.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16905.372218750003,"end":16907.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16908.426593750002,"end":16909.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16909.55721875,"end":16916.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16916.07096875,"end":16920.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16920.40784375,"end":16923.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16924.44096875,"end":16926.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16927.05659375,"end":16928.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16929.655343749997,"end":16933.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16933.92471875,"end":16934.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16935.527843750002,"end":16936.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16936.96221875,"end":16936.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16937.80596875,"end":16941.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16941.80534375,"end":16944.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16945.585343749997,"end":16946.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16948.25159375,"end":16949.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16950.17534375,"end":16959.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16959.64221875,"end":16965.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16965.97034375,"end":16968.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16968.788468749997,"end":16971.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16972.19721875,"end":16974.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16974.54284375,"end":16975.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16976.39909375,"end":16983.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16983.655343749997,"end":16985.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16986.11909375,"end":16989.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16989.81471875,"end":16991.249093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16991.48534375,"end":16992.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16993.40909375,"end":16996.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16996.58159375,"end":16997.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16996.817843750003,"end":16999.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16999.787843750004,"end":17003.061593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17003.483468749997,"end":17006.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17006.824718750002,"end":17007.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17007.97221875,"end":17009.288468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17009.710343749997,"end":17011.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17011.583468750003,"end":17012.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17013.23721875,"end":17014.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17015.279093750003,"end":17022.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17022.754718750002,"end":17026.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17026.484093749998,"end":17027.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17028.559718750003,"end":17031.225968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17033.099093750003,"end":17035.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17035.79909375,"end":17038.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17048.084093750003,"end":17049.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17049.92346875,"end":17050.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17055.593468749998,"end":17055.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17055.84659375,"end":17068.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17068.671593749998,"end":17103.889718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17105.054093749997,"end":17109.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17109.86346875,"end":17135.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17135.56409375,"end":17141.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17141.858468749997,"end":17151.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17151.679718749998,"end":17153.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17154.14346875,"end":17154.514718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17155.59471875,"end":17155.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17155.61159375,"end":17156.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17156.65784375,"end":17161.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17162.513468750003,"end":17167.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17167.778468750003,"end":17191.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17191.825343750003,"end":17196.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17197.140968749998,"end":17200.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17200.66784375,"end":17207.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17207.48534375,"end":17212.632218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17213.357843750004,"end":17214.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17214.944093750004,"end":17218.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17219.39909375,"end":17223.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17224.343468749998,"end":17226.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17227.060343750003,"end":17227.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17228.730968750002,"end":17235.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17235.531593749998,"end":17241.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17241.960968749998,"end":17255.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17255.730968750002,"end":17267.155343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17268.117218749998,"end":17275.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17276.099093750003,"end":17278.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17279.30534375,"end":17279.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17280.115343750003,"end":17281.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17281.11096875,"end":17287.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17288.40096875,"end":17292.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17293.429718749998,"end":17294.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17294.62784375,"end":17300.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17300.31471875,"end":17308.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17308.262843750003,"end":17321.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17321.172218749998,"end":17323.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17322.55596875,"end":17322.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17323.028468750003,"end":17323.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17323.163468749997,"end":17323.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17323.60221875,"end":17323.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17323.63596875,"end":17323.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17323.92284375,"end":17323.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17323.93971875,"end":17325.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17325.72846875,"end":17327.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17325.74534375,"end":17325.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17327.280968749998,"end":17327.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17327.669093750003,"end":17327.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17327.685968750004,"end":17327.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17327.702843749998,"end":17330.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17331.499718749998,"end":17357.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17357.47034375,"end":17359.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17359.242218749998,"end":17360.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17360.254718750002,"end":17361.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17362.583468750003,"end":17365.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17366.14409375,"end":17395.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17397.075968750003,"end":17400.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17400.670343750004,"end":17410.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17411.36909375,"end":17426.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17426.79284375,"end":17444.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17444.039093749998,"end":17444.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17444.562218749998,"end":17461.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17461.740968750004,"end":17495.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17495.912843750004,"end":17497.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17497.380968750003,"end":17501.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17501.262218750002,"end":17501.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17502.004718750002,"end":17505.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17505.46409375,"end":17507.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17507.185343750003,"end":17516.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17517.107843750004,"end":17529.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17529.949718750002,"end":17531.991593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17532.43034375,"end":17533.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17533.83096875,"end":17537.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17537.42534375,"end":17538.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":17537.93159375,"end":17547.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17544.867218749998,"end":17544.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17544.934718750003,"end":17545.592843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17545.592843749997,"end":17545.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17547.820343749998,"end":17549.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":17550.38534375,"end":17553.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17560.61159375,"end":17560.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17560.62846875,"end":17560.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17560.746593750002,"end":17560.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17560.83096875,"end":17563.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17566.264718749997,"end":17569.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17569.70721875,"end":17569.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17569.926593750002,"end":17569.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17570.044718750003,"end":17570.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17570.31471875,"end":17574.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17570.449718750002,"end":17570.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17574.280343749997,"end":17574.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17574.73596875,"end":17579.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17580.55784375,"end":17582.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17580.912218750003,"end":17595.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17595.576593750004,"end":17595.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17595.84659375,"end":17595.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.94784375,"end":17595.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17595.96471875,"end":17595.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17595.981593750003,"end":17596.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17596.15034375,"end":17602.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17603.03534375,"end":17607.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17607.52409375,"end":17622.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17622.694718749997,"end":17627.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17628.668468750002,"end":17641.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17641.72971875,"end":17643.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17643.585968749998,"end":17645.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17646.420968749997,"end":17647.905968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17648.27721875,"end":17663.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17664.122843750003,"end":17664.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17664.83159375,"end":17675.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17675.294093750003,"end":17699.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17699.83034375,"end":17709.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17709.75284375,"end":17731.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17731.015343749998,"end":17731.116593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17731.116593749997,"end":17731.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17731.13346875,"end":17731.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17731.639718749997,"end":17738.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17737.967843749997,"end":17747.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17739.90846875,"end":17740.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17740.161593750003,"end":17740.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17746.11846875,"end":17746.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":17746.13534375,"end":17748.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17747.70471875,"end":17768.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17769.405968749998,"end":17788.052843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":17772.49409375,"end":17772.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17772.780968749998,"end":17772.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17788.879718750002,"end":17792.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17792.828468749998,"end":17792.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17792.84534375,"end":17793.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17793.030968749998,"end":17795.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17793.08159375,"end":17793.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17796.203468749998,"end":17799.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17800.23659375,"end":17800.287218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17800.287218750003,"end":17800.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17800.32096875,"end":17806.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17800.55721875,"end":17800.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17800.57409375,"end":17800.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17800.692218750002,"end":17800.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17800.77659375,"end":17801.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17801.70471875,"end":17802.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17806.37909375,"end":17824.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17824.60409375,"end":17830.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17830.746593750002,"end":17831.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17832.130343750003,"end":17833.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17833.58159375,"end":17847.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17848.060343750003,"end":17849.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17849.123468750004,"end":17850.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17850.97971875,"end":17851.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17851.148468749998,"end":17855.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17855.232218750003,"end":17863.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17864.17596875,"end":17880.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17880.83159375,"end":17882.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17882.62034375,"end":17883.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17884.27409375,"end":17888.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17887.04159375,"end":17887.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17888.84721875,"end":17889.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17889.859718749998,"end":17897.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17897.959718750004,"end":17927.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17928.40221875,"end":17933.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17933.98784375,"end":17950.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17951.520968750003,"end":17952.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17952.499718749998,"end":17953.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17953.242218749998,"end":17954.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17955.08159375,"end":17956.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17956.819718749997,"end":17957.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17957.444093750004,"end":17960.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17957.61284375,"end":17957.764718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17957.764718749997,"end":17957.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17957.967218750004,"end":17958.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17958.810968750004,"end":17958.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17961.81471875,"end":17963.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17963.350343750004,"end":17967.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17967.63659375,"end":17969.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17969.880968750003,"end":17971.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17971.51784375,"end":17971.686593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17971.585343749997,"end":17973.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17974.099718750003,"end":17975.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17975.19659375,"end":17976.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17976.529718750004,"end":17979.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17978.318468750003,"end":17980.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17981.474093750003,"end":17981.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17981.96346875,"end":17988.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17989.87784375,"end":17994.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":17995.24409375,"end":18000.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17996.543468750002,"end":17998.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18000.18846875,"end":18002.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18003.310343750003,"end":18004.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18005.35221875,"end":18006.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18007.91721875,"end":18012.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18012.912218750003,"end":18016.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18019.00409375,"end":18020.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18020.303468750004,"end":18026.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18021.248468750004,"end":18021.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18021.70409375,"end":18022.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18022.497218750003,"end":18022.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18026.631593750004,"end":18030.327218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18032.402843750002,"end":18041.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18042.021593750003,"end":18043.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18043.945343749998,"end":18044.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18044.72159375,"end":18045.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18045.02534375,"end":18045.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18045.97034375,"end":18045.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18046.49346875,"end":18046.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18046.52721875,"end":18046.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18046.965968750003,"end":18047.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18047.03346875,"end":18047.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18047.37096875,"end":18047.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18048.11346875,"end":18049.733468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18050.459093750003,"end":18050.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18050.49284375,"end":18051.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18052.146593750003,"end":18055.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":18055.99409375,"end":18056.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18056.044718750003,"end":18060.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18060.93846875,"end":18062.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18062.997218750003,"end":18066.608468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18067.16534375,"end":18067.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18067.60409375,"end":18067.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18067.975343750004,"end":18068.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18068.00909375,"end":18068.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18068.21159375,"end":18068.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18068.88659375,"end":18074.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18071.265968749998,"end":18079.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18079.804718749998,"end":18081.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18082.55534375,"end":18084.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18084.749093749997,"end":18085.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18086.35221875,"end":18086.858468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18087.09471875,"end":18088.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18088.47846875,"end":18092.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18093.74346875,"end":18094.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18094.857218750003,"end":18097.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18097.405343749997,"end":18098.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18099.109718749998,"end":18100.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18101.505968750003,"end":18102.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18103.15971875,"end":18104.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18104.999093749997,"end":18106.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18109.184093750002,"end":18109.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":18109.538468749997,"end":18114.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18116.474093750003,"end":18116.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18117.520343750002,"end":18119.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18121.60409375,"end":18123.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18123.848468750002,"end":18132.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18124.624718749998,"end":18124.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18132.083468750003,"end":18135.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18137.09534375,"end":18140.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18138.36096875,"end":18138.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18138.647843749997,"end":18139.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18140.60534375,"end":18141.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18141.21284375,"end":18147.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18147.507218749997,"end":18161.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18155.809718750003,"end":18155.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18155.87721875,"end":18155.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18155.927843750003,"end":18155.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18162.677843750003,"end":18164.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18165.14159375,"end":18169.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18169.950968750003,"end":18174.085343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18174.929093749997,"end":18175.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18176.194718749997,"end":18188.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18188.27721875,"end":18189.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18190.420343750004,"end":18196.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18191.264093750004,"end":18191.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":18196.562843749998,"end":18208.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18206.114093750002,"end":18214.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18214.450343750003,"end":18238.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18233.48534375,"end":18233.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18233.60346875,"end":18233.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18238.44659375,"end":18242.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18238.514093750004,"end":18239.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18240.91034375,"end":18246.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18244.200968750003,"end":18244.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18244.656593749998,"end":18244.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18245.39909375,"end":18245.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18245.93909375,"end":18245.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18246.023468749998,"end":18246.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18246.88409375,"end":18246.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":18247.23846875,"end":18247.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18247.255343750003,"end":18249.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18250.630343750003,"end":18255.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18255.65909375,"end":18259.304093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18259.725968749997,"end":18273.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18273.411593750003,"end":18275.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18277.022843749997,"end":18280.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18280.87034375,"end":18286.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18287.60346875,"end":18305.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":18305.811593749997,"end":18307.617218749998}],"whisperx":[{"start":1716.829,"end":1722.479,"text":"出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄"},{"start":1726.175,"end":1748.955,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月28日星期四上午9時1分至下午1時41分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員林國成等15人列席委員賴世保等19人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員曾經的及國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲等"},{"start":1749.535,"end":1768.913,"text":"主席曾召集委員數月報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論四項一至四審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政面供工程委員會國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算通訊傳播監督管理基金預算有限廣播電視事業發展基金預算"},{"start":1769.949,"end":1799.404,"text":"五、審查113年度關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結書面報告案及二案本日會議由行政院公共工程委員會主任委員曾經得及國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲報告後既有委員林國成等22人提出質詢軍警主任委員曾經得主任秘書黃文哲及相關人員分別予以答覆決議依報告及詢答完畢二委員王洪威所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1800.205,"end":1820.719,"text":"三、委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關建樹以書面答覆自第一案至第四案均另折其進行處理委員預算提案於12月16日星期一中午12時截止收件五、第五案另折其進行處理通過臨時提案已向上會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1822.381,"end":1849.461,"text":"好的,業縮錄我們待會再確定現在介紹在場的列席人員首先是我們數位發展部黃彥男部長我們自己給自己掌聲打氣一下第二位我們數位策略師蔡壽泉市長蔡市長任性建設師鄭明忠市長資源管理師牛信仁市長好的"},{"start":1850.979,"end":1870.791,"text":"數位政府司王承明司長數位國際司莊盈智司長資料創新司莊明芬司長以及主計處李錫東處長秘書處陳仲山處長資訊處周志和處長"},{"start":1883.052,"end":1911.446,"text":"人事處莫永榮處長政風處陳春信處長以及法治處張學文處長接下來是資通安全署謝翠娟署長謝署長好謝謝以及我們數位產業署林俊秀代理署長署長要代理多久"},{"start":1917.731,"end":1929.427,"text":"國家自動安全研究院何全德院長行政院主計總署公預算處檢驗視察李培元視察"},{"start":1931.069,"end":1954.741,"text":"好以上是今天的列席人員本次會議進行第一邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫第二114年度數位發展部單位預算審查詢答的部分好好那我們現在就請我們書發部黃部長針對業務概況的報告立法計畫及預算一併說明"},{"start":1960.998,"end":1961.34,"text":"請。"},{"start":1971.176,"end":1996.05,"text":"主席各位委員大家好今天應邀列席會委員會報告本部114年施政計畫及預算編列的情形深感榮幸感謝各位委員對本部各項業務的支持跟指教以下僅就113年的預算執行期型跟114年的施政計畫重點預算編列的情形分別報告如下請看簡報這是簡報大綱請參考下一頁"},{"start":2000.974,"end":2016.95,"text":"上任之後就有三個施政理念那就是一個就是我們要推動打詐工作強化數位韌性跟發展數位經濟那目標是希望能夠配合賴總統數位政策建立一個科技智慧島數位新社會下一張"},{"start":2019.059,"end":2040.433,"text":"打詐的工作我們在9月底到10月中有做一次網路詐騙通報查詢網的公測那公測結果在到11月目前還在公測中有12000多人次在測試中那目前有看到通報的次數是48648則的通報那裡面有15211則因為確認之後就要求業者下架"},{"start":2048.899,"end":2061.386,"text":"從這裡面的結果我們看到這個偽冒名人的詐騙廣告從過去最高一個禮拜有38139折到目前大概降到2117折那金融詐騙廣告從過去最高77484折到現在下降到4636折也就下降都90%以上"},{"start":2071.151,"end":2092.979,"text":"我們預計從這個使用者的feedback我們預計12月底會有推出個新的測試版本在下一頁那為了防詐我們有推動了一些策略那這邊就簡單的說明我們有銀碼的技術的推動電子簽贓法的三讀通過那第三方支付的帳號的查詢的平台也建立了個RPG的機制來阻詐那這個機制從112年到113年我們總共阻掉"},{"start":2098.101,"end":2120.669,"text":"阻止了60534件的詐騙網頁我們有提供政府端碼簡訊服務商業檢碼服務還有防詐鎖卡平台防詐鎖卡平台主要是針對遊戲點數的詐騙目前這個成效也是從過去一個月1600件左右下降到現在大概是100件左右再下一頁"},{"start":2122.028,"end":2148.693,"text":"那另外一個重要工作是建構多元益子的安全的應變網路那這裡面有三個工作一個就是我們要建設海陸空應變網路這裡面包括掛中低軌衛星的服務那第二個是要提升網通傳網路的防護的能量那這裡面我們有在這個在我們的這個NCCSC的一個專案這個一個機構裡面我們有分享了143萬筆的治安情資"},{"start":2152.194,"end":2168.274,"text":"我們也審查了投國的資通訊的設備有24款第三個工作是普及網路建設在11年到113年我們總共補助協助了15354座的5G基地台的部件涵蓋人口大概97.99%再下一頁"},{"start":2172.162,"end":2199.553,"text":"另外一個重要工作是我們要簽章規劃數位通傳資源確保符合公共利益這裡面包括第一個工作是規劃釋出次世代無限寬頻那這裡面我們有審查的已經審查了事件的這個衛星頻譜的申請案那還有一件正在審查中那第二個工作是我們要管理跟提升電信資源使用效益那剛剛有講過我們在偏鄉的人口涵蓋率目前通行涵蓋率超過95%以上"},{"start":2201.634,"end":2212.243,"text":"第三個是我們要促進網路網際網路健全發展那這個這個包括我們RPG剛剛有提過我們RPG主詐的裝置的機制已經阻止了60534件的詐騙的網頁再下一頁"},{"start":2218.058,"end":2239.964,"text":"在下一個重要工作是我們要調適我國的治安法規那這裡面包括我們在7月12號我們推動知痛安全管理法的修法在7月12號由立法院一度通過那這裡面重要的工作是我們要強化特定非公務機關的治安的要求跟擴大集合的範圍那下一個工作是我們要這個要定"},{"start":2240.964,"end":2241.524,"text":"在下一個工作是我們下頁"},{"start":2257.558,"end":2270.346,"text":"我們要強化國家資安防護特別是要精進資安聯防機制跟關鍵基礎CI的治理作為我們發布了126萬筆的資安情質威脅也攔阻了1324萬的可疑的所謂的電子郵件當然這個也包括很多的這個資安事件的諮詢那我們"},{"start":2283.234,"end":2298.393,"text":"目前每個月攔阻對我們政府的網際網路跟所謂的關鍵基礎建設的資安的供給每個月超過13億次也就是說每天有超過我們每天要攔阻5000萬次左右的一個供給這個給各位參考下一頁"},{"start":2303.513,"end":2321.916,"text":"那我們要發展治安的人力生態培養治安的人才那這個人才是一個很重要的一個我們要發展的目標那我們有治安的職人訓練預計要培養2000人次那我們會在設立治安的考科那會推廣一些教育的訓練然後發展職人的難途再下一頁"},{"start":2323.442,"end":2344.145,"text":"我們要進行數位政府數位服務要讓這個要進行數位任性巡航健檢那這個我們在113年盤點的是三項的系統的背景的資訊總共執行了39項政府機關資訊系統數位巡航健檢那已經完成了所有39項的巡航工作在下一頁"},{"start":2345.735,"end":2373.107,"text":"在下一個題目就是我們要發展數位經濟那像是經濟裡面特別是我們要投普協作加強投資AI新創我們匡列了100億元的國發基金來預計來協助AI產業的發展那這裡面我們會搭配AI數位產業相關的輔導政策提供全方位的輔導體系推動AI及數位產業規模化及國際化的發展在下一頁"},{"start":2374.281,"end":2394.362,"text":"那我們同時要推動產業AI化跟AI產業化的目標是要匯集人才技術產業能量發展AI智慧生態為主軸帶動產業從小企業從小為企業生技轉型創新經濟回應社會的要求並實現匯普科技的價值在下一頁"},{"start":2396.107,"end":2420.233,"text":"現在的中共說是我們要推動資安產業跟強化產業的資安的防護這裡面推動資安產業包括技術研發跟海外的擴銷那另外就是強化資安產業的防護特別是我們協助訂定了Semi-E187這是一個全球第一個半導體設備資安的標準那我們也做了29家這個資安的評級然後"},{"start":2424.394,"end":2425.355,"text":"進行113年也進行了370家治安的評級在下一頁"},{"start":2433.077,"end":2457.118,"text":"接下來的工作就是我們要落實AI人才的培育建設或是產業的發展基礎那我們人才在我們有就業金卡有600張已經發了600張就業金卡另外我們訓練各個產業業者所需要的AI人才跟數位轉型的人才我們就招募訓練了567個青年作為所謂的數位青年替代在下一頁"},{"start":2459.417,"end":2480.688,"text":"再來就是我們要促進資料的發展打造資料創新的金融生態那這裡面我們從open data我們已經有5萬筆的資料集讓民眾下載那我們也推動所謂的買data的服務然後能夠再提供有條件的在線上做護照的身換跟金融服務的線上申辦再來"},{"start":2483.308,"end":2498.443,"text":"在下一頁工作是我們要活化各自數據的應用建構數據公益創新生態主要工作是我們要開創數據共享的一個信任的環境促進社會公益利益及社會創新在下一頁"},{"start":2500.579,"end":2520.285,"text":"接下來我們要建立分散式數位信任的生態系。這裡面主要的目的是我們要打造一個能夠降低數位足跡的可信任的平正的生態。這裡面工作包括公司的協力、跨部位建設裡面包括推動所謂的數位皮夾公共建設計畫跟全球協作來推動這樣的一個數位生態系。"},{"start":2522.998,"end":2533.732,"text":"公民科技工作就是我們要打造一個數位信任的生態機的一個方法那這裡面有包括推動公共城市那辦理公民科技的試驗場域跟擴展我國國際的輸出"},{"start":2537.176,"end":2554.608,"text":"以上是我們的一些政策的一些目前的施政重點那關於預算的部分這邊再跟各位委員做個報告在113年的預算執行部分稅務部分113年預算執行到10月底累計分配預算數是25.41億元累計執行數是24.7億元執行率是97.21%"},{"start":2559.111,"end":2565.965,"text":"稅促的部分113年預算值截到10月底累積分配預算是16.97億元累積執行數是14.8億元執行率是87.21%"},{"start":2571.857,"end":2588.63,"text":"114年施政重點是為了落實建構輸任平權、任性永續、自由多元、創新成長的數位台灣的數位政策目標並扣合落實國家希望工程的五打七安、數位安全、創新經濟等尚未的政策藍圖以積極"},{"start":2590.892,"end":2603.326,"text":"強化打仗,強化數位韌性,發展數位經濟的數位三件為核心的施政重點,重新調適數位施政的框架,達到新力跟防弊的雙重效果。"},{"start":2606.722,"end":2615.488,"text":"114年預算編列情況以下報告稅務部分114年稅務編列是24.6億元較上年預算25.4億元減少了0.8億元約減少了3.19%主要是檢列各項頻率及電信號碼使用的會有的收入"},{"start":2624.894,"end":2642.812,"text":"稅促部分114年稅促編列33.33億元較上年度預算27.93億元增加5.4億元約增加19.3億%主要用在增略運用MOCN技術建置雲端合網提升行動寬頻行動網路韌性計畫有4.19億元"},{"start":2647.316,"end":2651.618,"text":"新增維運精進衛星緊急應變網證驗證計畫有1.6億元新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫有0.96億元檢驗數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫有1.4億元最後一頁"},{"start":2664.744,"end":2678.184,"text":"本部114年預算案系配合政府整體施政目標．秉持臨機預算精神．並衡量各項計畫輕重緩急．優先順序排列．信信可畏委員．鼎力支持謝謝"},{"start":2681.738,"end":2704.14,"text":"好 這個謝謝部長部長能不能這個剛剛報告的這個的部分啊針對於很多的業務的還有預算的那現在大家比較關心啊你們內部的一個管理的風格這個對於所有同仁啊員工啊是不是有一些這個不平等不公平還是誤會啊你這個部分要怎麼清查你能不能一併說明一下"},{"start":2707.276,"end":2718.126,"text":"主席還有各位委員那個我們在昨天已經啟動外部調查委員會那預計在12月11號以前會有調查報告那我們會秉公處理毋忘誤重該調動就調動該處理就處理"},{"start":2722.17,"end":2749.921,"text":"那不過我也這邊跟委員報告就是我們剛剛講我們每天要攔阻五千萬的網路供給我們是治安的一級戰區所以同仁的壓力也相當的大所以這次調動也讓我們了解我們可能要做內部的這些所謂的訓練包括領導統一的訓練還有溝通的訓練讓我們以後在工作之際上雖然有這麼大的壓力還能夠順利的進行不需要有這種霸凌或凌遲或是一種不合理的一種行為發生謝謝委員"},{"start":2752.418,"end":2752.578,"text":"議長鄭明忠"},{"start":2775.958,"end":2783.502,"text":"來報告一下如何清查你的市裡面的一些霸凌的一個情況還是清查到什麼階段來做個說明好不好現在這你的室內重要的業務嗎要不做個說明不是啊那個市長沒有辦法說明沒有我要你報告是10月20號"},{"start":2802.096,"end":2828.213,"text":"我們的行政院院長就鞠躬道歉為了勞發署的事件當場要求各部會進行全面的清查這件事情還是你們根本都任何什麼動作都沒有那沒關係如果10月20日到現在兩個禮拜我不是在講昨天的事啊這兩個禮拜你們各單位到清查的結果如何市長說明一下好不好"},{"start":2838.029,"end":2838.99,"text":"請坐,大家都請坐,有難言之隱,這個可以自證清白的一個機會,你為什麼不用呢?"},{"start":2854.124,"end":2870.953,"text":"好,那我們這個資安署署長我們一個是一個署啦齁,署長來說明一下齁,你們到目前為止這個針對於裡面院長交代的霸凌事件的一個清查目前我們在資安署裡面有什麼樣的作為?"},{"start":2884.652,"end":2895.082,"text":"報告委員其實專屬一直以來都有那個員工輔導但是專屬的確工作壓力很大所以我也整個清了一下專屬現在的員工就是整個從專屬成立以來到現在整個的離職率"},{"start":2900.475,"end":2914.68,"text":"那也跟委員報告我們總共有42個人其實其中有21個人是到民間那其他還有10個人他是其他回到原單位就是他原來的單位可能他的工作壓力沒有那麼大他比較能適應"},{"start":2915.78,"end":2920.424,"text":"我們現在數出來其他人是覺得有調到錢比較多雖然是平調可是那個單位的錢比較多或者是離家比較近他可以跟家人一起照顧他的孩子我們現在離職的原因大部分是這樣目前為止有大概四個八個"},{"start":2936.579,"end":2936.819,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":2960.731,"end":2966.679,"text":"考試跟行政檢查因為資安署的人都必須經過特殊調查那經過這些調查之後他合格了嘛我就給聘書結果呢銀行馬上每個月加1萬就挖走所以一個禮拜內就挖走了所以我們是的確有還蠻艱鉅的"},{"start":2977.313,"end":3002.431,"text":"工作量跟蠻大的工作壓力那也外面很喜歡我們啊所以我們現在的動作是第一個想想看怎麼讓同仁的壓力稍微少一點那我當然也會真的努力看看可不可以去爭取資安的部分可以有一些比如說績效獎金啊或者是其他的加給可以讓他們願意從事資安的工作那當然我也會辦教育訓練那委員說的萬一"},{"start":3007.008,"end":3027.275,"text":"同仁壓力大那溝通上可能彼此的聲音有點大的話那這個部分剛剛部長講了我們必須要做員工的溝通的訓練那我們也會有長期因為我們也已經訂了那個霸凌的相關的頭就是投訴機構跟制度24小時接受同仁的"},{"start":3028.095,"end":3056.192,"text":"申請但是不是這一段時間的流行是之前我們就知道壓力很大所以我們一直就有員工的業批的相關的輔導那我們當然希望我們的工作環境是可以稍微不要壓力那麼大但自然是救災嗎有些時候真的是無法等就是時間來了事情來了我們就得做這一塊是兩難也請各位委員能夠盡量支持我們可以訓練員工然後可以有比較好的機會"},{"start":3057.754,"end":3083.956,"text":"爭取更多的人跟所有人的那個加級可以請委員再支持。謝謝委員。好的。署長至少願意上來講。我覺得是真的不錯啦。不過不要一直講訓練員工。員工要訓練了。就是霸凌事件通常是有權利的這一方好不好。就主管怎麼樣去主管的這個部分我覺得你們要去關注啦。順市長要不要上來說明一下。不用齁。好。我想這個"},{"start":3086.654,"end":3105.107,"text":"處長嘛齁我最後一個問題了齁因為待會所有的委員大概訊息我幫你問一下齁那個還是署長12月底之前那你們這個人事處去做了什麼霸凌的調查嗎目前有沒有就在那邊講就好了都清查好了嗎齁"},{"start":3112.278,"end":3120.843,"text":"在這個環境因為我們還是必須要處理"},{"start":3125.697,"end":3149.196,"text":"有些工作資安的議題我還是必須立刻處理所以不能就是不會因為有壓力就不處理但是我會希望能夠比如說爭取一些比較好的人力或者是相關的預算資源來讓大家減緩這個但人事處的確是我們自己有啟動然後人事處也啟動而且我們也有訂了條款讓大家投訴"},{"start":3149.876,"end":3163.512,"text":"謝謝署長那最後人事處你都站這麼久了說明一下你舉例說明你目前調查的結果以我們治安署跟我們的任性司你調查的一個員工的普查有沒有發現任何的一些問題請說明"},{"start":3171.379,"end":3187.165,"text":"跟張偉報告那就真的這個部分我們一接到那個通報我們就成立那個專業小組進行相關的這個跟那個張偉報告"},{"start":3189.298,"end":3204.728,"text":"就是行政院有交代的我們第一個我們就是去修改這個規定讓這個我們本部的那個職場霸凌的規定更完整跟各部會是一樣的這個做法所以你之前做了什麼調查嗎你看署長多棒啊人情都做給你啊你之前做什麼調查沒有調查還有結果啦因為11月20號"},{"start":3216.252,"end":3238.087,"text":"11月20日院長震怒局工道歉總統也道歉這樣還不夠嗎要求各部會清查清查到現在昨天發生另外一個事件之前至少12天的時間那你說你是主管單位我就講說你針對於這些事這些數你在清查的過程中沒有這個能力能夠事前假設發現有些問題嗎"},{"start":3240.871,"end":3267.749,"text":"所以之前還沒有昨天有報告記者會出來你才開始啟動嗎我們針對有那個確實的這個情形我們都會立即邀請外部的這個學者專家包括法律跟心理諮商的進行相關的這個調查所以你們自己沒有內部發現問題的一個能力好請坐好"},{"start":3270.134,"end":3278.747,"text":"接下來我們先確認一下議事錄對今天議事錄有沒有意見沒有意見議事錄確定"},{"start":3280.629,"end":3301.843,"text":"接下來我們進行合併的詢答先宣告以下事項第一詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘第二委員發言登記於10點30分截止本委員會除外第三各委員會如有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診"},{"start":3302.944,"end":3311.251,"text":"第四暫定10點30分休息10分鐘第五中午原則上不休息現在我們就有請登記第一位林佩祥委員發言有請黃部長好黃部長"},{"start":3333.547,"end":3362.467,"text":"委員長在你這份報告這個預算收支預算報告的第3頁有講到一句話就是說這個提升整體通訊網路韌性裡面包括保障國民之數位人權那我想請問一下最基本的網路上的禮儀算不算數位人權啊網路上的禮儀啊就是說你寫的字啊用這個用詞用字是不是應該算是算是人權的一種"},{"start":3363.847,"end":3366.168,"text":"你覺得這樣算不算霸凌你覺得這樣算不算霸凌"},{"start":3391.328,"end":3418.465,"text":"部長請你聽到這句話如果你是我的下屬你會不會覺得像霸凌這是網路上喔因為我們知道網路上驚嘆號表示很氣憤才會用驚嘆號你覺得算不算網路霸凌就是這個剛剛有講過像這種情緒的這是一個長官因為我們是如果有一天如果您是用這種語氣混蛋加驚嘆號直接命令你下面的下屬"},{"start":3419.586,"end":3435.752,"text":"他們感受就是這樣喔這是不是所以我們這樣我說我看到這個保障國民數位人權的時候我就很好奇說那我們的數發部有沒有把我們的基層工作人員當作一般的勞工還是說我們數發部的基層工作人員就沒有所謂的數位人權嗎"},{"start":3437.788,"end":3465.266,"text":"當然委員這個就是我剛剛講說我們在這個事前我們在做進步調查那調查結果很快就會出來那我們會採取適當措施沒有錯就是我剛剛講說工作壓力下情況工作壓力很大情況下也不能夠對在情緒上做任何的這個發洩所以這個的訓練中所以我剛剛特別強調我也跟我的同仁講我們要有那個那我想請問一下這邊有個關鍵的東西我因為我知道這個報告的時候我想請問一下什麼叫打岔啊"},{"start":3466.769,"end":3467.329,"text":"請問打X什麼意思?您知道嗎?"},{"start":3482.799,"end":3502.412,"text":"這是你們部裡面發生的事情你是最高主管你也知道以企業來講一向都最高主管完全完全掌控完全負責對吧我原理的資訊我都完全了解那那個您的這個是那請問什麼是打叉您是我的資訊完全了解那請問什麼是打叉打叉是什麼直接扣烤雞嗎是不是這個這個是不是直接一烤雞來做威脅"},{"start":3503.933,"end":3523.447,"text":"請部長回答yes or no還是我不知道 or I don't know這個就是我剛剛講就是說需要內部給我調查報告其實那個很多的那個剛剛講就是我還是回到那個原則就是徐署長請問您知道這個狀況嗎請問您知道打叉是什麼意思嗎打叉動不動一個叉兩個叉三個叉五燈獎啊"},{"start":3525.642,"end":3541.115,"text":"請問打叉什麼意思?是考級直接降一級嗎?還是一個什麼懲處之類的嗎?你有掌握這個狀況嗎?趙偉跟委員報告齁那個部分我們會列入專案小組的那個調查我們等於雙方的這個當事人都甚至是說我也很好奇啦齁"},{"start":3542.416,"end":3558.505,"text":"週末例假各科都有事然後科長48個小時沒宵沒席再打一個叉那想請問一下基層公務人員有沒有勞基法的保障啊那基層公務人員48小時待命週末48小時待命會不會違反勞基法啊沒宵沒席就要打叉沒宵沒席就要考基屬問是不是?額市處處長請問你知道這狀況嗎?"},{"start":3571.409,"end":3591.19,"text":"就這個部分我們會利用專案小組調查你們千萬不要給我寫個什麼利益良善的東西出來喔不好不會你們千萬不要寫個利益良善的東西出來喔謝謝委員提醒不然話說真的不是只有我今天會看到會生氣喔所有人都會生氣喔"},{"start":3593.154,"end":3615.948,"text":"我這是很在議事廳在議事殿堂裡面直接質詢每一個都有每一個都有逐字稿的記錄那這件事情不能就這樣了之是如果這邊跟我講說數位人權四個字數位人權四個字然後我們基層公務員都不被尊重基層公務員最基本的網路用詞這種混蛋打岔胡搞"},{"start":3617.742,"end":3638.331,"text":"那我還不知道說我們這個數發部連最基本的數位人權說我們要保障國民的數位人權還要打詐我不知道這個該怎麼講我不知道這該從何講起所以我認為部長您現在就是想法就因為我從資安署到這邊一路看過來四個字關關相互啊"},{"start":3639.389,"end":3665.562,"text":"周委已經很客氣特地把這件事情讓你們這種主促長出來講可是你們現在給我的態度就是沒關係我們等調查委員報告出來之後我們再想辦法大事化小小事化我們偷過去對吧不會大事小小事化我們不會嗎不會不會這邊講的話大家全部人都看著喔全部媒體都在看著喔對我知道就是我們根據調查報告我們會做適當的處理那如果你是主管你是現在最高主管你認為你該不該道歉發生這麼大風波應不應該道歉"},{"start":3665.982,"end":3693.795,"text":"我為我所有同仁道歉是應該道歉因為這個確實是我督導不周讓他發生這樣的事情但是我也講說這個事情本身我們先調查報告我們還是等調查報告出來再做適當的補充部長至少你肯說為你的同仁黨來說出道歉這點我給你肯定因為很多人是不願意道歉我特別跟同仁講就是說我們部的工作很重但是我們要有愛的教育鐵的紀律鐵的紀律還是要有再來其實部長我還有另外一個議題也是很重要的"},{"start":3694.875,"end":3723.593,"text":"其實這個跟你比較無關啦其實這個案子現在這個案子跟上個案子其實跟你都是你是主管所以你要完全負責包括111現在已經老實講這是唐鳳部長留下來的東西可是我覺得這比較像是一個自我自嗨的這個所謂的Safe Guard自己保護自己有自我感覺良好的Safe Guard111防詐號碼知道吧那其實老實講媒體上面報的很大我們花了1200萬但是實質上我們有沒有保護到我們直接的人"},{"start":3725.235,"end":3742.21,"text":"這個是因為剛才講那個假冒的基地戰那個是對2G的這個對可是部長這就是尷尬的地方如果大家寧願用2G就可以破解幾十萬不到五十萬的設備就可以破解我們剛開始初期1200萬所以說他是直接去跟所謂的末端使用者直接去touch"},{"start":3751.138,"end":3762.508,"text":"變成是說我們隨時隨地只要有一台50萬左右的機器我們只要一個犯罪集團隨便到鬧區掃一掃就可能掃到這些這些釣魚檢訊就繼續發送不然我們111的檢訊之外而且這111的檢訊還是我們國家花大錢去官方認證的有效檢訊他們不是這個沒有錯111防詐平台沒有被破解"},{"start":3776.3,"end":3804.154,"text":"但是他們直接略過防炸平台假冒成111這一樣嚴重啊對那個所以就是說這個有幾個做法一個就是說我們當然有那個本來就通訊檢查就會去偵測這種訊號所以是抓到人但是另外一點就是說這個建議訊裡面都有些網址特別要強調如果不是點gov.tw這種網址千萬不要點所以就是說有雙重防護一種是11一種是因為這個案子其實已經發生像這樣的案件"},{"start":3804.554,"end":3805.815,"text":"所以這個有防護的措施我們現在加強防護沒問題"},{"start":3821.108,"end":3850.568,"text":"其實我們前我諮詢過的時候你也跟我提過我們正在做是所謂的零信任網路零信任網路解決方案那我想知道說到目前為止這零信任網路解決方案目前進度是怎麼樣我們現在已經有這個預計年底會有大概47個A級機關都會導入零信任網路所以當然我們會逐步的擴充但是這個零信任網路是很重要的一個防護的措施我們是極力推動那希望當然就資安法通過之後我們能夠加強對不管是CI或者是地方政府也推動零信任網路"},{"start":3850.828,"end":3851.568,"text":"接下來有請林國成委員發言"},{"start":3886.226,"end":3889.949,"text":"好謝謝召委請黃部長黃部長好來部長早委員好我從來沒有看到我們沛翔委員這麼生氣的嚇我一跳這個最主要我特別要提醒當部長的人當長官的人"},{"start":3915.987,"end":3941.306,"text":"一定要特別去注意任何事情尊重三分如果你不尊重整個文官體制那文官體制雖承受不了他就會認知為霸凌那我今天特別要來請教我們部長也就是在11月29號"},{"start":3944.52,"end":3955.967,"text":"第19屆資安機能金頓獎致詞的時候你特別提到說每一年你我們貴單位"},{"start":3959.602,"end":3981.543,"text":"要任用五千個人所以這個你聽我講完我這裡必須要提醒施政不能靠口號不能隨便亂開支票人家說太不正啊還正好歪所以你會開這種空頭支票那底下的人有用"},{"start":3986.517,"end":4007.652,"text":"所以才會造成現在賴總統卓院長都跟全國人民來道歉這個霸凌的問題當然是整個這種緩緩相扣所以柏林來你11月29號有沒有講你要任用資安人員在貴部"},{"start":4008.012,"end":4034.172,"text":"議員８"},{"start":4034.912,"end":4049.88,"text":"因為部長你要知道我真尊敬他 故意人不能亂講話所以我坦白講 你看連你到外面支持我們都非常注意你可以去發現到 立法委員不是縮架"},{"start":4050.981,"end":4069.974,"text":"議員８"},{"start":4070.134,"end":4099.434,"text":"由其主管數位所有產花、發展的跟監督的業務的情況之下一個所長講出來的話是涵蓋整個部裡面所有的政策所以這個要特別因為如果是誤解那也就誤解連我就覺得不可能做到的啊因為一年我們治安所有的學生畢業也只不過是一萬七千人你們就可以網羅五千個人"},{"start":4100.755,"end":4111.182,"text":"這些是有所出入的所以我希望部長這個以後在外面的政策當然要謹言慎行不要讓人家產生這個誤解那就不好嘛其實我坦白跟你講我上一次對整個你們兩署的東西也就是"},{"start":4126.994,"end":4152.513,"text":"低薪福利差加班費砍掉這個我是不以為然的那在這個部分我必須要去提醒到現在你們都沒有去解釋為什麼為什麼所以你們可以看113年跟114年拜託你們的加班費兩項獎金也好加班費也好都是遞減加班費遞減27%那獎金"},{"start":4158.007,"end":4176.803,"text":"這個部分我還是要提醒部長對我們公務人員也不要那麼刻薄但是他有一定的加班跟一定的這些獎金的制度所以部長你特別特別要提醒一下要注意這些"},{"start":4180.135,"end":4194.16,"text":"我現在又要講霸凌的事我請問一下我們論信管理還有我們資安署有你主管這些你們到底現在調查到什麼程度"},{"start":4196.772,"end":4221.765,"text":"我們啟動調查以後就外部專家委員包括心理諮商室跟律師那這個報告會在12月11號以前出來那我們會根據這個報告的結果做立即處置這個是我們目前在進行中好啦 伯弟我跟你講現在花生中央部會確確實實有很多部會啦那當然我們也是民內在內啦所以我還是要提醒部長真的"},{"start":4223.045,"end":4250.988,"text":"關了殺人是非常重要不信事情不要再發生因為我一向都非常尊敬你是從業界來你是一個看起來就是溫溫如牙我希望這個事情除了你的政策管好你這些人員還是要去管好好不好好那我現在就特別要跟來那個那個我們那個"},{"start":4252.579,"end":4257.382,"text":"主席處處長來上來協助一下來好來主席處長部長你也要在啊因為我執行是執行你來我在想齁三年來"},{"start":4274.232,"end":4298.211,"text":"我們徵購機房徵購機房這裡面就包括在一般行政資訊管理跟設備投資編列總共的預算4000多萬然後連續三年加起來7600萬也就是購置機房我真的很納悶"},{"start":4299.926,"end":4323.572,"text":"你這個機房每一年購置你到底目的何在?你是在養黃金喔?還是在挖礦?現在很流行挖礦是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡挖礦你知道嗎?部長挖礦就是說機房很多就要挖挖挖挖挖挖不然你們為什麼連續三年7600萬都是在購置機房來部長你說一下那個"},{"start":4330.983,"end":4333.531,"text":"這我要請那個我們主席處長來好來處長你說明為什麼報告委員齁那"},{"start":4338.755,"end":4362.107,"text":"司法部的資訊他是一部兩署是共用的他並不會在部裡面不是我講的是我講的是購置機房啦其他的部分不要講為什麼會這樣啊因為機房是等於三個機關共用一個機房所以他必須比較大一點那因為現在我們的系統也蠻多需要做整合包括"},{"start":4363.548,"end":4378.1,"text":"對外面的所以必須就是會陸續來徵購這個機房這個機房你每年都購買機房那這個購買機房你們現在是都是用租的嘛那為什麼人員有成長這麼大嗎"},{"start":4379.801,"end":4408.367,"text":"我跟你講部長我坦白跟你講你也編列預算也不會這麼細啦我希望本席提出來的問題你們好好解釋因為我看出來就是不正常就是不是在我養網金就是在挖礦啊不然你們也每一年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房所以這個部分部長你要把它當成一回事你不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了你不能怪我因為我是理性問政"},{"start":4409.628,"end":4428.847,"text":"該給的我一定給但是你像現在處長所講的這樣我是不能接受的你要好好的去把它列出來為什麼連續三年連續三年甚至於你把那個相片都照來我認為是一個事實是有必要那當然我們要支持啊我們一向我坦白跟你講"},{"start":4429.988,"end":4457.03,"text":"現在的立法委員他是非常理性的啦該給的一定給啦不該給的一定刪啦所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下還有來那個處長我再請問一下另外支通安全的防疫計畫還有潤性強化計畫以及數位資深生態防護推動總共編"},{"start":4459.874,"end":4487.391,"text":"一億兩千萬請問一下啊這個項目都不是一樣嗎啊為什麼要編都同同樣是這樣啊然後編編這個預算所以處長你也不要跟我答覆那為什麼會這樣你也不要答覆實體下你來解釋我認為有理由那沒話講但是這個整個部分在我們翻這些資料你們都不寫清楚啊"},{"start":4488.251,"end":4488.791,"text":"還有最後一個"},{"start":4509.488,"end":4522.759,"text":"最後一個系統開花業務都不變喔 處長 業務不變喔 部長但是為何增加今年增加149萬7千塊為什麼你的系統開花業務為什麼 處長 為什麼這個是資訊處處長簡單回答"},{"start":4536.96,"end":4563.863,"text":"跟委員報告就是因為我們的公用系統是向上集中到我們部會來那我們的這些公用系統包含官網、EIP跟供應系統這些功能的話就是每年要做一些功能的徵修對所以會有一些系統開發好我要拜託齁銀端黃火軟體這不是買過了嗎去年不是買過了為什麼一買再買呢為什麼為什麼那個是每年的收權費"},{"start":4566.495,"end":4588.546,"text":"現在原端大概都是採一年授權一次所以每年都要採每年授權好那個系統開發增加的部分我也希望你們講清楚該有理由的我們不絕對支持但是沒有理由的部長請原諒我們該砍的一定砍這是本黨已經很清楚的告訴所有只要"},{"start":4589.406,"end":4590.386,"text":"接下來請李昆哲委員發言"},{"start":4625.107,"end":4651.428,"text":"謝謝昭偉請一下黃部長黃部長治安署謝署長謝署長產業署林代理署長來林代理署長部長我剛才聽了一下治安署啊謝署長在備詢台上面有說明治安署啊他認為的確是工作壓力很大那從治安署成立到現在啊謝署長說大概有42個人離職"},{"start":4653.689,"end":4667.986,"text":"其中有21個人是到民間公司還有10個人回到工作壓力沒有那麼大的原單位那其他的人因為薪資的問題或是離家比較近的問題選擇平調"},{"start":4671.41,"end":4697.148,"text":"所以現在離職謝署長認為說只有8個人是覺得工作壓力太大不適應治安署所以請調到別的單位所以整個離職率謝署長說以不適應來說大概只有0.4%那我請問一下部長你認為治安署這個離職率到底是多少來說明一下"},{"start":4699.369,"end":4726.272,"text":"我這邊拿到的數字就大概就是以今年來講大概有24個人離職那但是比例上來講就是剛剛講就是中間有很多原因有在剛剛就是署長解釋的那當然我還是認為說這個這裡面因為治安署的工作真的是過重然後這個那個怎麼樣去調配人力跟未來部長離職率就是以42個人來做計算啦"},{"start":4727.165,"end":4749.357,"text":"您們說只有8個人是因為工作壓力的問題所以來離開或者是請掉這樣是粉飾太平這是第一第二我看這個產業署跟治安署相關的這個離職狀況其實我有初步的去了解相關的離職率的問題那其實我一開始看到"},{"start":4750.632,"end":4772.348,"text":"資安署跟產業署提供給我的資料看來這個工作狀況還算穩定但是我仔細的再去看相關的資料我就覺得不對因為如果用離職率跟離職人數來回推我看產業署跟資安署的在職人數應該是在300人以上"},{"start":4773.41,"end":4793.948,"text":"但是我看你們的預算原額卻只有150至165之間部長這又是粉飾太平為了說離職率要好看一點所以把這個原額從150把它擴大這個分母成為300以上來說明一下"},{"start":4796.289,"end":4823.554,"text":"報告委員這個我看的不是那個number我看的是離子人數所以我剛剛特別講說我看的是人數所以他那個離子率的計算這個我覺得這個計算是的確是一個問號不過我重要看的是剛剛每個數的離子人數大概是有兩種計算的公式一種是期末的載子人數加上期間的離子人數或者是"},{"start":4824.554,"end":4847.528,"text":"其初在職人數加上期末在職人數除以二這應該是一個基本的功能不過部長我已經講得很明白了從治安署謝署長剛才所說明的42個人的離職他只用8個人來作為一個計算的基礎這是不對的這是欺騙社會大眾我認為不可取"},{"start":4848.248,"end":4868.474,"text":"第二相關的數位署還有資安署相關的離職率的這個計算也是粉飾太平這個你要嚴加的督促了好那我們現在來回到相關的這個推動本土繁體中文AI模型這個議題來請教一下這個部長就是說我們現在的"},{"start":4874.756,"end":4898.045,"text":"該案關的中文模型基本上是以英文加上簡體中文來作為一個計算的一個基礎那對於我們繁體中文來說相關的環境數據模型相關的產業的政策以及科技的發展區域的合作以及相關的對於"},{"start":4900.06,"end":4905.204,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":4919.996,"end":4943.452,"text":"報告委員對於這個資料的應用的部分我們過往有那個開放資料的一個處理所以在過往10年來講我們開放資料總有5萬多筆那依據我們做台德的訓練來講它其實有三分之一的這個資料量大概是使用開放資料那這個部分我們當然會持續努力那再來就是擴充的部分我們近期有人會找相關的部會就中文語料的部分來對於這個資格財產權"},{"start":4945.794,"end":4948.336,"text":"市長,我要簡單的來詢問你們因為推動本土繁體中文AI模型是一個很重要未來科技發展的一個重要基礎"},{"start":4962.609,"end":4986.362,"text":"我們必須要降低對於外國技術或服務的依賴要強化我們自己臺灣本土的實力推動發展跟普及我看我們TWNIC就是臺灣網路資訊中心2024的臺灣網路報告雖然使用CHAP GPT的人口逐漸增加但是使用者比例大概集中於40歲以下"},{"start":4987.142,"end":5013.695,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":5013.835,"end":5039.17,"text":"是推動本土繁體中文AI模型的一大優勢也是國際合作的一個亮點那這對於提升我們的國家自主性跟國家競爭力也是一個重要的方向那台灣在語言文化的自主性數據安全的方面如果沒有做好這個AI繁體中文的這樣的一個重要的基礎的話我們會喪失主導權"},{"start":5042.392,"end":5068.661,"text":"另外我看南韓南韓有成立這個市中學堂的改革方案部長應該知道了他們建置AI的i市中學堂的一個平台作為推廣韓語的一個前哨站他們在世界各地設立伺服器讓學員能夠更方便學習韓語那我們數話部何時會跟進"},{"start":5072.463,"end":5096.321,"text":"我們對本國的技術有沒有信心來保證你講一下那我們有自己訓練的模型那至於說這個教育的推廣這一部分我們會會去看看怎麼去最後跟其他部會共同合作這是一個重要的未來的建制的方向沒錯那另外我們也要滿足我們在地的模型在地的需求來促進數位的平等因為"},{"start":5097.827,"end":5118.659,"text":"本土AI模型我認為它不只是技術的議題更是文化保存的一個問題本土的AI模型它更能掌握我們台灣特有的這樣一個社會文化的背景而且對於語言障礙的群體教育程度較低及高齡人口來說是特別重要的"},{"start":5120.516,"end":5133.869,"text":"國際AI大廠這些巨頭他們的AI模型他們是有強大的技術能力但是他們對於這些語言文化的掌握還是不足對於繁體中文的這個環境還是不足"},{"start":5135.643,"end":5150.475,"text":"我們的本土自己AI模型能夠深入的去捕捉這一些語言的細節然後能夠解決在國際工具使用中因為識別錯誤或表達不準的這一些問題"},{"start":5151.616,"end":5171.275,"text":"部長你有注意到這些嗎所以才說我們要推動主權的AI我們要有自己的AI的model跟自己的那個那我們用現在已經在跟我們有跟國科會在合作在訓練像台德的一些模型的訓練那希望有些本土的話就是回應剛剛委員的那個部長另外"},{"start":5172.216,"end":5189.925,"text":"像這種AI的模型他很重要就是AI的語言助理他能夠進一步強化對母語對方言的一些理解那也能夠為高齡者語言障礙的群體或是偏鄉居民來提供便利"},{"start":5191.266,"end":5218.502,"text":"我們數位部有沒有類似的AI的這種助理工具有沒有去朝這個方面去推動來保定你講一下我們有那個一些平台的設像AIBOT像這樣的計畫在進行希望提供一些工具給政府部門使用以外也給民眾使用那這個有在規劃中保定你對推動這一些AI的本土模型你有沒有什麼具體的目標"},{"start":5220.081,"end":5240.151,"text":"我們是希望短期、中期、長期你們有一個具體的目標我一個簡單的建議短期的目標一至兩年要建立本土繁體中文的語料庫然後開發針對特定領域的AI模型的原型然後推出分眾的AI素養課程"},{"start":5241.232,"end":5256.834,"text":"那中期目標3至5年要建立具有國際競爭力的本土AI模型然後要形成完整的AI人才的培育體系建立AI的倫理治理的一個框架長期目標5至10年"},{"start":5257.515,"end":5280.663,"text":"要成為華語AI技術的全球標竿然後輸出台灣AI技術跟治理的相關的經驗然後還要建立具有國際影響力的AI生態系統針對我的建議來部長說明一下你的意見跟看法委員建議很好那我們在把我們這個未來推動的政策跟那個計畫看能不能朝這個目標來努力"},{"start":5282.779,"end":5310.539,"text":"這個部長要全力的督促數位部從成立到現在從之前的唐鳳部長到現在的黃部長其實我都跟你們有討論過相關的數位部相關的文官的體系行政的程序內部的文化的建立因為數位部是新成立的一個部會他從各部會調集人馬到"},{"start":5312.445,"end":5336.815,"text":"這個數位部來成立那唐部長是非常有創意的人但是他對行政體系文官體系不是那麼理解那黃部長也來自產業民間所以你相關的行政體系的建立內部文化尊重公務員尊重專業建立效率的這樣的一個未來的數位產業一個重要的部會"},{"start":5337.915,"end":5337.955,"text":"謝謝李委員"},{"start":5368.223,"end":5370.965,"text":"接下來請陳淑月召委發言謝謝主席請主席要請黃部長還有資安署署長謝署長委員長"},{"start":5392.616,"end":5419.074,"text":"部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配"},{"start":5419.394,"end":5439.65,"text":"議員８"},{"start":5439.65,"end":5455.794,"text":"議員８"},{"start":5455.934,"end":5480.796,"text":"未來這個使用的人應該也會越來越多照這個趨勢來說很多可是我們現在也發現就是說這樣子的一個網路的就是電子支付的一個使用習慣如果說在被駭客入侵或者是各自外洩的時候可能也會面臨很大的一個威脅危險那因為我們看到其實在"},{"start":5481.357,"end":5501.357,"text":"議員．"},{"start":5501.457,"end":5501.637,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第12會議"},{"start":5517.25,"end":5532.116,"text":"那本席在最近就接到了兩個個案就是最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了15000元然後他就在"},{"start":5540.92,"end":5565.629,"text":"就趕快去查就是用他的手機去查因為他目前就是他的帳戶銀行帳戶是蠻多的然後他有行動銀行的其實只有兩家就是新光銀行跟新展銀行然後其中新光銀行有綁這個LiPay跟接口支付然後他去就是說透過那個客服就是"},{"start":5566.149,"end":5574.534,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":5591.564,"end":5592.404,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":5609.45,"end":5627.828,"text":"被轉了81十一萬那他後來他禮拜一又趕快去林桂去查詢他相關的一些銀行他發現說他的合作金庫也被轉出了二十萬聯邦銀行也被轉出二十萬那富邦銀行也被轉了二十萬中國的銀行也被轉出十八萬多"},{"start":5629.43,"end":5644.348,"text":"就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款"},{"start":5646.591,"end":5664.523,"text":"所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28"},{"start":5667.244,"end":5685.589,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":5685.809,"end":5713.459,"text":"他被轉出去的帳戶是轉到他自己已經很久沒有用的其中一個銀行就是台新銀行他說他從104年那時候他餘額已經只剩100多塊所以他也沒結清就放到現在結果他的新光銀行的錢是被轉到台新銀行去然後再從台新銀行轉到接口支付全銀配台新配就是這樣轉出去然後錢就不見了"},{"start":5715.28,"end":5742.412,"text":"他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付、全銀Pay、支付寶還有這個台灣Pay、Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊"},{"start":5744.282,"end":5765.389,"text":"報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":5773.712,"end":5794.994,"text":"可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機號碼對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機"},{"start":5795.975,"end":5808.822,"text":"對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識就是說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最最安全那再來才是簡訊不過"},{"start":5810.703,"end":5835.958,"text":"的確沒錯,就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能想就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的"},{"start":5837.139,"end":5837.619,"text":"對,所以就是說在這個"},{"start":5853.439,"end":5882.927,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":5882.927,"end":5908.336,"text":"議員８"},{"start":5908.356,"end":5929.889,"text":"好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款"},{"start":5931.15,"end":5948.976,"text":"還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人確認不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要就是關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新"},{"start":5957.619,"end":5981.051,"text":"這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統"},{"start":5983.492,"end":6004.159,"text":"那這個就是那不是剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的"},{"start":6005.219,"end":6029.331,"text":"就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位皮夾第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個皮夾就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識"},{"start":6030.532,"end":6044.938,"text":"那這樣的話就可以保護就算你的資料被拿走因為他沒辦法破密所以他也沒辦法拿到裡面的一些認證那這個是我們在推的時候我們會特別注意就是說怎麼去保護在數位評價裡面的資料的安全這是一個很重要的一個議題"},{"start":6045.758,"end":6046.179,"text":"數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?"},{"start":6061.491,"end":6062.851,"text":"數位評價經過好幾層的加密加上生物辨識它的安全性會高很多"},{"start":6081.977,"end":6107.79,"text":"所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在研進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡"},{"start":6108.524,"end":6133.357,"text":"好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的說法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員經理謝謝"},{"start":6139.585,"end":6141.887,"text":"接下來有請林俊倩委員發言謝謝主席本時邀請我們數話部黃部長黃部長"},{"start":6172.253,"end":6200.921,"text":"委員好部長好部長這個就是我們這個111的簡訊之前有媒體有報導是否被破功其實是詐騙我們應該是沒有被突破系統沒有但是呢有這種111的假訊息那這個事情媒體報導以後那民眾對111的公信力信任度一定會降低"},{"start":6202.086,"end":6207.952,"text":"那我請教那現在案子有沒有破啊我現在收到111的簡訊我可以點進去嗎"},{"start":6210.718,"end":6230.639,"text":"這個案子本身是被破壞的歹徒都被逮到了而且他用的設備是大陸的設備那所以我們這個第一個就是我們以後對這種設備要做嚴加管理所以以後不會有啦那我現在收到1111可以點進去嗎報告委員我現在是講說一本收到11簡訊你要看那個簡訊因為簡訊都會有個連結"},{"start":6232.481,"end":6242.374,"text":"那個連結一定是一個legal就是合法的一個連結比如說gov.tw所以在點進去以前還是要看一下我看那個連結何必一一一一"},{"start":6244.078,"end":6267.16,"text":"政府設立這樣11的簡訊就是方便民眾辨識嘛對辨識以後但是你一般老人哪看得懂什麼現在先會點gov哪看得懂對就是就是這個單是多重第一個我們那你不是走回頭路對沒有報告委員就是說以前就是因為連結很難辨識所以呢政府就用個11看到11你就放心點進去不會是詐騙"},{"start":6268.241,"end":6287.741,"text":"對,那以後齁,以後這個我們剛剛講的就是我們會有網路詐騙通報查詢網,也許以後民眾再看到這個一一簡訊再要去...那現在看到一一可以填進去行不行啊?現在這個目前應該是...我覺得很慘欸政府推一一花多少錢?我覺得那個預算好像一千多萬啊"},{"start":6288.584,"end":6290.866,"text":"所以手機如果有2G功能的要把它關掉"},{"start":6317.745,"end":6340.129,"text":"有沒有抓到那個詐騙局長,聘請他當顧問,你剛剛問他什麼東西你沒有辦法騙過去,給他趕趕啦,請他教我們好不好,要不然你發明一個新東西花那麼多錢,他買一個報復這個幾乎不用錢啦,二局的那個機率台現在幾乎是要報復的東西啦,他拿進來可以改那個電話號碼,就把它改成111就騙了嘛。"},{"start":6341.099,"end":6369.467,"text":"通常是10年前的手機才會有2G的功能啦所以我想這個因為現在台灣是沒有2G網路也沒有2G手機了啦那他拿2G的基地台進來什麼狀況下可以入侵可以騙到我們的因為現在我們是4G、5G網路嘛對 如果你的手機有2G的接收功能你會收到這個簡訊但是現在絕大部分手機這剛剛講就10年前手機也許有2G功能現在新的手機絕對沒有2G功能所以你新買的手機那如果網路不穩定的時候"},{"start":6370.367,"end":6393.977,"text":"他這樣傳也是可能侵入喔因為那個剛剛講這個這種是單方向的認證以後從3G以後都是雙向認證也就是說那個基地站跟手機會做出會有一個協議嘛他們就會互相認證這個方法在3G以後的手機是沒有用的就2G還有嘛那2G現在台灣有多少用戶啊就有這種手機要多少差不多知不知道"},{"start":6396.11,"end":6423.535,"text":"你的意思是說你手裡拿的是很舊式的手機或是有2G功能才可能被這種騙嗎?是不是這樣?所以潛在的受害者多少?如果今天買的手機是最近才買的或是這一兩年才買的你就不用擔心?就不用擔心那你要跟民眾說明清楚啊所以我剛問你第一個問題你是身為部長你也不太敢回答我問你看到111的訊息能不能點進去?"},{"start":6424.605,"end":6427.468,"text":"你如果說叫民眾在點進去以前再看一下連結"},{"start":6439.036,"end":6439.056,"text":"委員長"},{"start":6459.753,"end":6483.473,"text":"議員８"},{"start":6484.133,"end":6491.916,"text":"就手機的就還有2G接收功能的手機他才會丟進去他會接到嘛聽說他騙了三百多萬啊這樣也會結合耶那一台比較多啊一台聽說我們把他報廢了我跟他一台機一台搞不好幾乎是不用錢的"},{"start":6500.799,"end":6528.768,"text":"那還是會有吧那市面上現在要再販售新的附帶二級手機的應該是這個現在二級手機應該是沒有了這個你要跟NCC去了解一下要不然你一一一一整體信用崩盤那怎麼辦因為你有很多政策你有很多部會現在還每天在傳"},{"start":6530.592,"end":6532.213,"text":"所以現在11還可以用啦?"},{"start":6558.294,"end":6559.935,"text":"新版的手機根本不會放2G的功能"},{"start":6585.373,"end":6611.476,"text":"如果像我這種新的手機沒有辦法接受2G的訊息他就收不到這種簡訊嗎?是這樣嗎?對你確定嗎?確定那114還可以用喔?一旦都可以用基本上可以用喔?可以可以如果新手機沒問題我覺得這個要趕快發布會去解決了要不然你花這麼多錢用了這麼大力宣傳的東西如果公信力崩盤你一拆又重來"},{"start":6613.7,"end":6636.848,"text":"因為今天委員在關心數位發展部發生那個霸凌事件這事情真相你們要去調查嘛那部長也答覆說啊數位發展部職場霸凌防治及處理作業要點你會依據這個來做規定嗎對你這個要點在哪裡啊要點在你根本沒有這個要點你也不會說啦人事處說明你這個要點你有這個要點嗎"},{"start":6644.702,"end":6672.141,"text":"報告委跟委員有在哪邊網路上找不到各部位都有就你們事務部沒有有我們有跟委員報告我們是今年11月28修訂今年多少今年11月28自訂還是修訂那個修訂所以之前就有了有那你看你什麼地方還不認識等一下借我看一下好OK我們等另外喔謝謝"},{"start":6674.7,"end":6701.783,"text":"你數位發展部其實各部都有一個反霸凌預算我不曉得大家你數位發展部沒有編列你知不知道反霸凌預算因為這種反霸凌其實不是現在才發生以前都有所以他很多單位都有反霸凌的甚至還有課程他還有一定的預算你要去執行要去教育只有你數位發展部沒有因為你說過你要設立一個申訴調查小組"},{"start":6703.527,"end":6719.777,"text":"對不對他是無極職啦但是他你要寫報告書還要出席費用等等喔各部會幾乎都有只有你數位發展部沒有啦但你有在單位有啦放在一般行政裡面這個預算你也瞭不講啦你那個說明欄就沒有啦我現在查起來喔你像那個"},{"start":6726.414,"end":6752.382,"text":"資安署有啦,結果資安署有啦我查一下你各部的預算你當部長的自己去了解一下你就說你基本上你各部會可是個新單位所以你有一些事項業務你並沒有很完整的納進來你有很多單位你那個數位發展部本身沒有反霸凌的預算這次大家質疑這個數位產業發展署也沒有啦但你資安署有啦"},{"start":6753.851,"end":6753.871,"text":"委員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":6773.772,"end":6774.473,"text":"接下來我們請魯明哲召委"},{"start":6804.828,"end":6809.611,"text":"謝謝主席有請黃部長跟人事處處長謝謝兩位"},{"start":6822.864,"end":6849.933,"text":"委員我剛好也有機會在基層擔任過首長那因為現在至少這兩個多禮拜一個霸凌的事件是全民都在關心的那在這個問題的裡面我剛剛的感覺我們的速發部速發部的反應我是覺得稍微慢了一點也就是說當總統院長鞠躬道歉之後你們的目標就是趕快來修訂一下法規在11月28號20號"},{"start":6852.734,"end":6854.095,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6878.795,"end":6896.836,"text":"員工表達意見,你有沒有彙整?還是還沒收件?朝委請問的是那個什麼的調查。我跟委員報告。這樣好了啦。那我們這個任性司裡面的所有的同仁的收件沒有?"},{"start":6900.22,"end":6923.234,"text":"跟詹委員報告就是說就我們那個本部的那個離職率比較偏高的那個部分那大概確實我們那個瞭解就是昭緯有調查的這個部分那確實是我們那個六個業務室你都收卷了嗎?治安署每位同仁的反應你都收到了嗎?彙整了嗎?"},{"start":6927.009,"end":6945.961,"text":"你到底在做什麼啦我跟你講齁真的很離譜啦剛剛一直講同仁怎樣同仁怎麼樣我們只問一個這種調查最基本的第一件事同仁保密的甚至不具名的不要有標示性的反應起來啊這件事有沒有做"},{"start":6947.165,"end":6962.166,"text":"到目前為止有沒有做在11月20號他單位發生這麼嚴重霸凌的事件當行政院長下令的時候你們這個當然我想這個部長也是問題你要負責啦齁處長在做什麼在觀望應該不會到我們"},{"start":6962.907,"end":6986.933,"text":"我跟你講每個單位可能都有這樣的危機啊你最基本的員工的反應我們同仁會不會有這樣的一個反應你至少要有這種警覺性我還沒有爆發我要警覺性所有的同仁全部你們反應一下不具名的你們反應一下各單位的一個情況你自己能夠幫忙部長做一個反應哪裡危機哪裡沒有危機我講的對不對我就認這個速度慢了"},{"start":6988.346,"end":7016.694,"text":"第二個呢 這個部長講真的 你們很算是整個數位部因為畢竟比較專業以前我們在部隊講說合理的叫訓練不合理的叫磨練問題現在這個社會發展到這個點上大概沒有什麼不合理的空間也許部隊還有一些其他我們在政府在管理這個部分我要必須給你們八個字就是"},{"start":7018.135,"end":7035.315,"text":"親身說重話親身重話親身也可以說重話嘛不要講髒話嘛重話也講得出來第二個禮職氣也可以喝我說真的那我們現在因為在做很多都做我們的數位的專業的"},{"start":7037.028,"end":7047.037,"text":"我們都說理科人我碰過蠻多的真的很直就是平常就只管01 01 01數位那他不知道0跟1之間還有100種1000種可能還有0.01像我們不是理科人我們覺得彈性很大"},{"start":7053.903,"end":7073.573,"text":"所以我是覺得對於我們所有主管甚至各單位二級的首長甚至科長、組長這個的部分如何做管理我是覺得這一方面的調教跟訓練甚至跟SOP是怎麼樣這個部分你要怎麼著手部長你說一下好不好"},{"start":7074.933,"end":7097.165,"text":"謝謝委員的建議的確這件事情就是讓我也跟部內同仁講就是我們要加強我們的所謂訓練教育訓練包括靈導統一的訓練也就是說剛剛委員講的很好我們要我用一句話就是我們要愛的教育鐵的紀律也就是說我們紀律是要很嚴格但是你那個在跟員工在溝通的時候那個愛那個字很重要所以"},{"start":7098.206,"end":7114.105,"text":"這個我們會在內部然後我們會再請外面的一些專家跟老師來跟我們做內部的訓練希望這個所謂的職場霸凌的這個事情在我們數位發展部不會再發生好那這個部分我還有第二個建議啦第二個建議說"},{"start":7115.933,"end":7133.586,"text":"因為現在霸凌事件發生到現在我們也希望不要到最後走到偏差了就是我們要真的把不對的事情把它找出來不要讓對的事情連講都不敢講因為以前就我的經驗我們現在在政府裡面說真的八成的員工"},{"start":7134.98,"end":7154.936,"text":"都能夠他做完他的事情他能夠符合他的能量甚至有三層四層他是蠻優秀的但是有兩層呢需要你去關心去輔導這也是事實啦這也是事實啦那也許有個3%到5%3%到5%因為我以前碰過好不好人家來罵我為什麼我們這個裝個路燈兩個月或做工程兩個月"},{"start":7160.973,"end":7182.481,"text":"完全沒有消息不裝也沒給消息結果我一去看我們承辦人這事實喔哇那抽屜一打開半年以上的公文他壓在這裡那所以如果以現在的標準說我不知道怎麼樣跟他好好講那肯定要臭罵一頓的所以我是覺得怎麼樣在工作性質上面"},{"start":7183.854,"end":7208.424,"text":"不要到私人的個人的一個上面我是覺得這是一個關鍵的一個重點這個部分我建議這整個要去推敲尤其剛剛我們署長也特別說壓力這麼大對不對我覺得這個東西是非常非常重要的管理還是持續要做但是只是不要情緒失控這是我的建議那再來就是我們數位三件特別看到你的一個報告"},{"start":7210.545,"end":7233.711,"text":"強化打詐公私協力其中一樣剛剛很多委員講11政府短碼檢訊平台上路當然我講不幸中的大幸是因為他現在是用舊的2G的一個平台用車載著到處去跑然後去干擾現在可能5G、4G的訊號台然後他發出去那只有"},{"start":7234.651,"end":7244.496,"text":"中間還有二級的功能的手機能夠收到可是你知道嗎其實不光是二級手機了那常常發的是Hokang"},{"start":7245.63,"end":7265.604,"text":"我二級手機其實也沒有存二級手機太少啦可能就四級下融到三級二級他有這種功能啦他收得到結果他訊號一關掉他要恢復四級啦他趕快發給群組哇這好康政府又提供什麼所以這種東西我是覺得也不能忽視因為我是比較擔心的"},{"start":7266.945,"end":7292.712,"text":"看到一個事情不是111二級手機影響比較少而看到一個問題其實最認真去遵行推敲我們數位部、數發部最新政策的還有NC最新政策的其實是詐騙集團你有什麼訊息什麼可以代表政府的公信力公信力了他就跟上來你想想看像這樣的一個情況111"},{"start":7294.272,"end":7321.373,"text":"代表政府現在大概我們網路去google我可以看到自己十幾個二十個包括我們千里山他特別專業各位111請不要擔心絕對不是詐騙他同時間在幫你宣傳的有345個單位機關嘛你們在整個用到現在也大概4600多萬通在發那如果你夾雜這個的部分等於這些宣傳的機關"},{"start":7322.614,"end":7329.881,"text":"也順便再幫忙他那個詐騙集團他宣傳都沒有宣傳了因為大家都說11是標準的讓你看看8月1號111的簡訊你就可以放棄記得111簡訊是政府發送的能避免被詐騙集團保有111安全"},{"start":7342.639,"end":7344.14,"text":"所以我最後一個拜託啊"},{"start":7369.891,"end":7370.111,"text":"數位批夾"},{"start":7391.224,"end":7399.376,"text":"手機裡面這個部分你們在建制現在花了大概兩億喔大概這兩年喔今年加明年大概會"},{"start":7400.503,"end":7428.183,"text":"議員８"},{"start":7428.263,"end":7450.871,"text":"那個PGC用最新的加密技術再加一個國際認證的標籤PKI這樣的一個技術所以就是說這個資料在你的手機裡面一定要經過一些認證這個認證是不是商號密碼而是你的生物特徵然後進去之後像FIDO這種然後進去之後才去渠道裡面資料再解密才能真正使用所以有多重的保護那應該這個應該是相對的相當的安全應該的齁"},{"start":7455.552,"end":7479.028,"text":"我們也希望我們希望是真正的政府做的到時候如果真的發生詬病的話那種反彈壓力非常大我們真的不希望這個道高一尺魔高一丈這種天天在台灣詐騙集團上演我們不要每一次各單位NCC追在詐團的後面我們真的希望有方法堵在詐團的一個前面我們真的希望一起努力謝謝"},{"start":7488.459,"end":7500.27,"text":"好謝謝盧明哲抓委那接下來我們請何欣淳委員好謝謝我們請我們請黃部長委員好"},{"start":7507.062,"end":7531.379,"text":"部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論"},{"start":7533.121,"end":7533.261,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":7549.953,"end":7565.323,"text":"三層的原因未知那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們也要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險"},{"start":7575.109,"end":7595.577,"text":"可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員"},{"start":7597.887,"end":7617.795,"text":"是沒錯對是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表"},{"start":7619.405,"end":7646.114,"text":"這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數"},{"start":7648.069,"end":7657.917,"text":"我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員"},{"start":7660.049,"end":7681.23,"text":"我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔"},{"start":7682.798,"end":7708.914,"text":"這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括 ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心"},{"start":7709.835,"end":7724.236,"text":"那如何去做治安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的"},{"start":7725.277,"end":7744.609,"text":"議員提醒嘛對了解謝謝委員提醒的確那個人力不足就治安人力不足確實是一個問題那所以我們在治安署治安院有不同的program在訓練人才那剛剛我在檢那個一開始業務報告也說也說過我們基本上治安轉執訓培養大概至少2000人來這個就是我接下來跟你討論的問題囉接下來下一頁"},{"start":7747.711,"end":7763.309,"text":"我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼"},{"start":7764.352,"end":7764.612,"text":"委員會委員會"},{"start":7790.515,"end":7798.686,"text":"也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎來來請"},{"start":7808.261,"end":7824.072,"text":"謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個"},{"start":7827.523,"end":7842.352,"text":"A級A級有47個47個那我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安"},{"start":7843.052,"end":7851.059,"text":"可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為報考的就是機關也想要現我們去訪談的結果啦機關想要被訓練成熟拿到證書的他覺得剛考上沒有辦法立刻上手那這個是必須要溝通"},{"start":7870.196,"end":7893.217,"text":"議員８"},{"start":7893.217,"end":7910.213,"text":"議員８"},{"start":7910.273,"end":7914.114,"text":"我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調"},{"start":7935.101,"end":7946.749,"text":"你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開增設資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個"},{"start":7961.112,"end":7975.092,"text":"這個不是理由吧我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始是報告委員委員的指導其實我們有有認真的聽然後我們也真的做了全"},{"start":7975.992,"end":7982.938,"text":"的詢回跟機關跟機關說明了這個。你們就是只有去詢回啦然後詢回是跟誰講我不知道。因為其實機關機關有想要增額錄取啦但是問題是他們提出來的時候的時間沒搭上那所以我會覺得在今年時間沒搭上對不好意思這個"},{"start":7992.165,"end":8020.375,"text":"因為去年才剛開第一次考試所以其實準備的機關準備的時間也不夠多啦那因為我們提報考缺其實要比較可能譬如說要半年前我要再跟部長講我們講這件事不是今年第一年講啊這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多"},{"start":8024.681,"end":8049.356,"text":"我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對"},{"start":8051.889,"end":8068.579,"text":"可是現在你們說每年要拚5000名職安人才那現在呢?訓練5000名目標5000名有達到嗎?部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人勒"},{"start":8070.246,"end":8070.626,"text":"報告委員我們有訓練"},{"start":8089.65,"end":8092.433,"text":"而專職真的專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連譬如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上"},{"start":8101.499,"end":8118.95,"text":"第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎"},{"start":8120.516,"end":8136.085,"text":"不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分"},{"start":8136.725,"end":8153.232,"text":"二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的成績嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對是啊"},{"start":8153.692,"end":8170.913,"text":"那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的"},{"start":8172.034,"end":8197.883,"text":"知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像勞發署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源"},{"start":8199.296,"end":8207.824,"text":"這才是我們要做的啊是是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人在職人現有的人他必須要合格他也必須拿兩張證照所以這兩種訓練我們都有在辦"},{"start":8220.094,"end":8235.742,"text":"議員８"},{"start":8235.842,"end":8245.988,"text":"那也不是你說的五千好吧那三千多人三千多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎報告委員其實部長講的五千人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人的拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系"},{"start":8257.415,"end":8282.529,"text":"你們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的"},{"start":8285.13,"end":8306.726,"text":"資安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個盡速的把這個補足資安人員的這個時程表可以趕快給出來第三個專業的輔導"},{"start":8308.487,"end":8309.048,"text":"接下來有請黃建豪委員發言"},{"start":8346.431,"end":8353.543,"text":"好謝謝主席我們先請數位部黃部長黃部長跟任性建設師鄭明忠司長好鄭司長"},{"start":8364.968,"end":8389.563,"text":"委員好來部長好市長好這個一開始當然還是要關切一下我想我們這新聞上事件看到了這個數位部職場霸凌案的問題我想今天市長來我覺得還是先給肯定市長你願意勇於負責相較於先前這個勞動部那位分組長直接消失不見了我想市長的這個態度還值得肯定那我想先請教一下這個市長你被指控的這些事情是事實呢還是這是你們這個內部的這個職場鬥爭"},{"start":8394.315,"end":8395.396,"text":"部長當然是這樣啦"},{"start":8419.468,"end":8438.76,"text":"我可以知道你要愛護這個同仁的心情而且但是這個事情是這樣之前包含總統也好院長也好都已經下令說要各單位來清查這個事情那但是的確下令之後很多委員都收到各式各樣的投訴跟各式各樣的爆料那今天這個新聞也上了檯面了"},{"start":8440.341,"end":8468.94,"text":"議長在,市長也在,我們希望利用這個機會,我也不會關太久,我只想請市長簡單說明這個是事實呢?還是說這個是涉及到內部的這個鬥爭?因為其實我們去講一個另外面向啊,的確霸凌案發生之後我們也收到很多的檢舉案啊但是有些並不是事實啊,有些是內部的這個爭議嘛所以我今天想要請市長有機會可以把話講清楚一下這個你被指控、被爆料、被投訴的這個東西第一個它是不是事實?你為什麼這樣做?那第二個"},{"start":8470.02,"end":8496.621,"text":"這樣做的原因會不會爆料出來有沒有涉及到你們內部的這個爭鬥鬥爭的問題謝謝委員給我這個機會我想這個事情造成整個部裡面整個還有對我們部的形象的傷害深感抱歉那我會甚至檢討然後接受調查因為部裡面已經成立專案調查小組我會接受調查以上好市長謝謝市長請回"},{"start":8500.446,"end":8519.223,"text":"好部長我還是要再次強調我們肯定司長至少今天願意出席啦比起不願意面對這個之前的謝憤組長好太多了所以我想後續不管他調查結果怎麼樣本期今天還是要肯定說司長願意在這個數位部質詢的時候他願意來出席這個這個隨時被可能被問到的問題好那進到主題啊"},{"start":8520.336,"end":8547.942,"text":"這部長我們過去常常很多次已經跟數位部溝通過到底你們第三方支付怎麼管理那之前你們跟我提說你們有這個能量登錄的問題能量登錄之後那如果沒有登錄的業者他跟銀行之間的這個金流銀行端你會去處理但是我們從這個重大的新聞看到之前這個數支付之前也曾經在這個能量登錄的這個清單上面當然先被廢止了我想問一下什麼時候被廢止的"},{"start":8549.205,"end":8553.842,"text":"報告委員,我們現在正在精進這地方制度的集合的工作,那是不是請署長做個說明。好。"},{"start":8556.01,"end":8580.24,"text":"謝謝委員給我們這個機會說明那我們在事前的話部長已經指示了以後要登錄一定要徵信那在事中的話一定要現地審查不是只有會議審查那事後的話一定要會同國稅局以及調查局去查核這個部分的精進我們正在推行當中部長跟這個署長你看之前這個大概有第三次還第四次質詢問這個所謂第三方支付你們到底怎麼管理的問題後端金流的問題"},{"start":8582.641,"end":8597.691,"text":"拜託說如果今天因為這個東西是你們曾經放上所謂的能量登錄的審和通過名單的所以可能有業者或民眾不知情他甚至搜尋新聞都是正面新聞搜尋官方文件他也在上面那表示說你們這個能量登錄"},{"start":8598.892,"end":8624.656,"text":"現在才要再做審核那表示現在放在名單上的公司是不是都可能變成詐騙集團洗錢的工具那你們到底要怎麼辦呢已經講了這麼久了結果現在被媒體爆出來說這個數支付曾經被你們放在這個審核上數支付曾經就在這個能量登錄上審核通過名單在前期版他都在上面但是他卻是詐騙集團洗錢的工具"},{"start":8625.916,"end":8632.537,"text":"那表示能量登錄沒有意義了嘛那你們是說要去跟銀行端去做這個背書去做審查我想問一下"},{"start":8633.704,"end":8657.328,"text":"數位部有能力去管銀行嗎那像這樣子而且這是你們通過的這個是你們放在能量登錄的網站上面所以說實在當然依照你們的說法還合法合理的去跟銀行去做交涉銀行也覺得說你是通過數位部認證的還去通過這個國際FIDO聯盟這FIDO聯盟不只這個公司有加入啊你們數位部也有加入啊"},{"start":8660.59,"end":8685.527,"text":"所以你們共同等於是在形象上面第一個你們有名單上有這個公司那FDI聯盟裡面蘇師傅也獲他們邀請然後數位部也在這FDI聯盟裡面那變成好像他是個很合法很合理的公司結果他就肆意洗錢所以我今天要講的是當然你們要去做徵信這個一定要做的嘛但我覺得問題是說之前一直提到一件事情詐騙最嚴重的問題是後續的金流怎麼走那結果今天我在這個名單裡面"},{"start":8687.423,"end":8702.157,"text":"被放上名單的公司他居然可以去涉及洗錢那是不是還有其他的未報單數位部要怎麼稽查你們跟財政部或是你們跟機管會到底要怎麼合作還是這件事情是各推各的我們現在就是在精進這個整個計畫的機制我再請署長說個說明"},{"start":8703.837,"end":8721.439,"text":"那三個面向來回復委員的問題第一個是查核我們幾乎已經快全部查核了所以以後這樣諸之乎這樣的會機率其實是很低的我們都要限定要找資安專家跟法律專家去查核這是第一點第二點的話我們跟我們讓檢警調去查詢"},{"start":8722.14,"end":8741.732,"text":"我們現在有一個快訊的查,市長方似乎那個訊息上的快訊快速的查詢那個可以很快的就全存了這個是第二點第三點數字會claim他他那個FIDO那個是錯的我們跟FIDO聯盟的主席已經確認過了那個是比較錯誤的資訊他們發假新聞是不是錯誤的對他們發佈假新聞是不是這個意思他其實已經調查局好像已經找他"},{"start":8751.862,"end":8773.404,"text":"那這裡也要掌握啊,他發的新聞這已經是今年年中的事情了我們跟FIDO聯盟的主席都確認過了那FIDO聯盟主席裡面除了這間公司之外還有沒有其他台灣現在第三方支付看起來可能有問題的公司在裡面目前我們會再跟大家確認不過那時候只有這一家這樣"},{"start":8776.007,"end":8793.721,"text":"那銀行端裡面回答我啊到底銀行端怎麼處理他們是誰去做徵信是你們做徵信還是銀行做徵信還是財政部還是金管會因為今天還是核心問題嘛你們一開始跟我保證的這是這個會期講的事情說放上去能量登錄的這些第三方支付都是合法"},{"start":8794.602,"end":8818.208,"text":"合理的合法的公司但是實際上就沒有實際上就是你們放上去的公司5月5、6月5、6月份還在上面的公司今天9月份爆發這個被檢點查獲他為詐騙集團洗錢那你現在還把它撤掉那我現在問你們就算以現在台幣上這幾間公司來講你們到底要怎麼去稽查那到底你們曾經背書過了"},{"start":8819.949,"end":8841.24,"text":"所以銀海跟他們配合了那現在你們當然還在查嘛但是還在查過程裡面誰能夠來為這些地方方支付設定所謂停損如果民眾今天民眾又被詐騙團騙了因為每天都在發生啊你每個月申報的詐騙集團的這個金額高達上百億啊所以比如說從現在開始今天現在12月你還在查你還沒查完"},{"start":8842.02,"end":8853.114,"text":"那12月又被騙上百億一月再騙上百億二月再騙上百億那都是通過這種第三方支付公司去做洗錢的工作那我想問一下數位部的功能你們做這個所謂的能量登錄的功能在哪裡"},{"start":8860.664,"end":8875.074,"text":"委員回報一下就是銀行當然他也會有自己的集合的程序這個反而他就有一些相關的程序那我們這邊其實是因為資訊來源很大的一部分除了我們蒸汽以外還有電話局這邊我們跟電話局其實有密切的合作"},{"start":8875.754,"end":8897.512,"text":"到時候調查局其實為了我們會協同調查局跟國稅局去做集合好那這個你們提書費報告吧因為這個你們講很多次了我之前每次問你們都跟我講會跟調查局會跟銀行會跟計畫合作但是事實證明就這件事情是無效的那最後一點時間我再問一次齁再問一件事情除了第三方支付公司之外還有一個管道之前大家也提醒過很多次就是所謂超商繳費稅務管不到"},{"start":8900.318,"end":8926.015,"text":"這個數位部超商講會的問題你知道這個國內的這些超商業者他們沒有收到欸還有沒有說沒有收到說這個通知說他們不能跟沒有進行能量登錄的公司合作換句話說沒有進行能量登錄的這些公司他們是在銀行端你們在銀行端這邊有處理的但是這些所謂第三方支付公司他們還是有很多虛擬戰戶有很多虛擬戰戶"},{"start":8928.837,"end":8930.059,"text":"知道,那這已經也有處理,請素查說明。"},{"start":8946.442,"end":8946.822,"text":"這個條代碼跟某個公司對應是確實這樣我知道"},{"start":8969.673,"end":8991.307,"text":"但是我認為說詐騙行為發生的那一刻他是要詐騙行為發生之後檢體掉介入了我才會知道這個錢這個帳戶是被騙的嗎是假的嗎那我說前端呢前端超商我在跟這些第三方支付公司合作的時候我需要怎麼樣認證我需要知道什麼消息我才能夠跟這個第三方支付公司來簽約"},{"start":8992.568,"end":8992.588,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":9017.253,"end":9041.856,"text":"今天要跟某間第三方支付公司合作的時候你們的所謂的能量登錄或是其他的機制能不能跟超商去要求或怎麼樣配合他們去審核還是跟現在一樣就是自由奔放的想跟誰合作就跟誰合作現在就是這樣啊跟委員回報就是我們現在有64家登錄通過的當然超商會找這個64家他們沒有收到通知啊他們說他們沒有收到通知啊"},{"start":9042.566,"end":9053.175,"text":"那我們會再來跟經濟部這邊再來通知我們上次已經找四大超商那個已經cover台灣大部分的這個這個條代碼的一個代收代付這樣子"},{"start":9053.834,"end":9053.974,"text":"好,謝謝黃委員"},{"start":9085.202,"end":9087.863,"text":"接下來有請廖謙祥委員發言好謝謝昭偉麻煩我們的黃部長黃部長那個數位任性司政事長也可以陪同"},{"start":9109.755,"end":9135.001,"text":"部長昨天發生一件國際大事應該非常清楚昨天夜間的時候南韓總統發布了戒嚴當然最終大家是形容是以失敗告終雖然說最後一次他說解除戒嚴當然他認為他戒嚴失敗那過程中大家正式撇開政治的問題在實務執行上他這一次戒嚴會失敗的原因"},{"start":9136.201,"end":9147.691,"text":"其實跟我們數位發展部的業務其實多多少少如果說移植到我們國內的話也有一點點關係如果說以這一次南韓戒嚴失敗來講的話你覺得他哪一點沒有做好才會失敗"},{"start":9151.562,"end":9176.831,"text":"這個事件我知道那個起源跟那個因為報告委員我沒有特別去研究不過我覺得這個民主國家是這樣子啦就是說這個本來就是一個不應該發生的事情因為任何的這個沒關係我們不用去評論他啦畢竟是他我師父我們講人家可能也不太好就像我們執政黨發文去批評人家國會我覺得都不太好啦就實務面來講"},{"start":9178.65,"end":9197.056,"text":"當他總統發布建言的時候那為何他沒有辦法在第一個時間控制住國內的輿論群眾或者是讓國會議員沒辦法讓軍隊控制住國家我要講的你應該很清楚他沒有控制網路對不對他沒有控制通訊網路"},{"start":9198.476,"end":9215.559,"text":"所以他失敗了這很多因素之一但通訊網路沒有控制是一個很大的原因那假設中華民國的總統今天說要發布戒嚴中華民國的總統全部要發布戒嚴那來諮詢我們速發布的意見要控制我們的網路您會建議他怎麼做"},{"start":9216.48,"end":9238.698,"text":"報告委員我們是一個自由民主國家我們網路是一個分散治理其實在以現在的那個機制來講我們沒有辦法完全去封鎖我們不是像中國有個什麼規模規模這種長程去整個就封鎖我們台灣是做不到的是基本上我們台灣是沒有這個機制也沒有這個能力去我們的國家政府沒有辦法"},{"start":9239.719,"end":9257.395,"text":"下令中華電信停止服務嗎?沒有,因為我們有很多所謂的...中華電信也是國營啊,它不會配合嗎?可是我們的網路有接取有太多種,不只是一類電信還有二類電信所以有分好幾種嘛,我們的網路有分兩種包括我們現在在講國家數位任性的時候我們就是把傳統的光纖這個..."},{"start":9259.477,"end":9286.775,"text":"光瀾去跟中低軌的衛星去做一個區隔去增加它的韌性但是在實體的電纜這個部分國家應該是很容易去做控制跟封鎖的沒錯吧也也因為這個能夠經營這個實體跟這個網路的也蠻多公司的所以我覺得主要是說你要封鎖要針對某一個user或某一個去封鎖在我們台灣市或是你要封鎖國外的網站某個網站完全封鎖"},{"start":9287.375,"end":9314.084,"text":"直接切斷整個網路呢整個切斷網路那就是那個會造成更多問題對啊那如果說政府下令這樣子那目標是這樣子我們要問你說這樣對不對你就是一個政府的官員嘛提供專業意見嘛當政府想要切斷我們國內的網路的時候那分兩部分嘛一個是實體的網路嘛做不做得到實體網路目前來講因為我們實體網路經營的公司還蠻多的所以"},{"start":9315.956,"end":9331.383,"text":"我個人覺得困難很多啦就是說也不是那麼容易因為我們剛剛講網路是個分散治理分散服務的一個我們在台灣是這樣子所以我們並沒有個中央集權去控制整個網路的流量或是網路裡面的言論那這樣子我們談數位認清幹嘛"},{"start":9332.924,"end":9348.66,"text":"我們如果說我們談數位任性我們國家沒有辦法控制的話那何況是外部勢力我們現在一直在講外部勢力如果說介入我們國家的通訊安全的時候我們要任性嘛結果現在連我們自己的國家都不怕這個就是說我們的網路我們很安全沒有問題連國家都沒有辦法中斷了那國外的外部勢力怎麼中斷這樣不是有點矛盾嗎"},{"start":9355.387,"end":9380.919,"text":"拜託委員這個是主要是說我講說網路的基礎架構這個是一個分散式治理所以我們除非有就是說基本上要把它完全封鎖是有它的困難但是呢就是說如果將來就像剛剛講說特定的那些不當的言論就是我們要不同的方法去做這個管理那但是管理剛剛講就是說我們這樣可以從這個為什麼我們會有這個所謂的這個打詐專法就是為什麼要針對某些"},{"start":9384.941,"end":9385.442,"text":"市長現在還有衛星還有衛星嘛"},{"start":9404.105,"end":9424.818,"text":"我現在就要對實體網路封閉之後我們有衛星因為我們也是怕說我們的海底電纜是不是被境外的勢力切斷嘛所以我們現在在討論韌性網路衛星網路那我們現在的國內的衛星網路是不是全部都是走B2B的模式就是他可能都知道透過中華電信或是一個代理商經過我們政府的許可"},{"start":9425.478,"end":9436.953,"text":"他才能夠營業因為我們甚至包括之前大家在廣泛討論的Starlink的時候因為他沒有辦法符合我們國家法定那個這個股權的比例我們國內必須要超過50%對不對他沒有辦法符合比例所以說在"},{"start":9441.824,"end":9463.993,"text":"這個中低軌衛星網路的部分還是做到我們國家高度的監管嘛是不是所以說我們國家是有這個權利去廢止它的一個營運的許可包括我們發布戒嚴的時候現在包括我們的實體網路我們可能可以透過這個接收站的一個封鎖那包括我們的這個衛星中低軌網路我們也可以廢止營運商的一個營運吧是不是國家是不是有這個權利"},{"start":9468.075,"end":9483.708,"text":"如果一定要把所有對外的這個所有的管道包括光纖海底電能跟衛星都封鎖那當然就是說最後就只剩下我們自己國家發射的衛星可以使用那時候他要給用誰用就很簡單了對不對可是這個這個"},{"start":9484.989,"end":9510.78,"text":"我還是覺得這困難性蠻高的啦那就是說這個東西假設也就是說我們國家可以做到我們要給誰網路不給誰網路這件事情我們是做得到的是不是我們只要切斷所有外面的網路的連結利用我們國家自己發射的低軌衛星我們現在在佈置的嘛對不對我們就可以很輕易的去選擇我們要提供給誰網路資訊服務不給誰網路資訊服務對不對我報告委員我那個這個"},{"start":9511.9,"end":9540.229,"text":"我是認為我們是法治國家這個事情不會發生我的問題你可以吐槽我沒關係啊你可以說我不對哪裡不對嘛就是就是這個就當然就講說如果你發生這個像剛剛講就是說把我們的海底電纜全部阻隔包括衛星全部阻隔那因為海底電纜也有其他國家我們現在像進來我們國家海底電纜包括google包括Amazon"},{"start":9540.529,"end":9558.395,"text":"他們也都在拉電腦這樣所以你說把中華電信切斷是完全切斷網路倒也不至於因為我們事實上這個網路目前部件像他們在臺灣設電腦那總算還是有接收站嘛對不對那個包括光就海底電腦其實好啦我今天就跟部長討論一下我也不是說一定說就是討論這次的問題還怎麼樣"},{"start":9560.376,"end":9587.048,"text":"我們在討論數位韌性的時候過去常常是講國家對國家我們當我們國家遇到了一些問題的時候可能會因為封鎖的問題影響到我們國內的資通訊的網路但是我們從來沒有思考過國家跟人民之間的關係當我們國家今天不要講民進黨你也可以想說有一天國民黨重新執政了國民黨要搞戒嚴要來中斷網路的時候我們怎麼建立人民的數位韌性怎麼做得到"},{"start":9587.688,"end":9601.289,"text":"最重要的一定要開放B2C的軌道衛星部長會不會認同這個要是看我們台灣的法律如果法律允許的話當然是可以所以台灣現在目前可不可以走B2C的衛星"},{"start":9602.99,"end":9605.553,"text":"現在還沒有開放嗎?現在還沒有開放嗎?羅雷?現在就是都走代理嗎?"},{"start":9619.269,"end":9634.87,"text":"那另外一個先前有個新聞委員應該也看到了就是現在的臺科大他藉由手機可以支援衛星所以其實人民還是有擷取這網路的權利只不過要營業這樣的行為必須在我國登記為電影事業以上跟我們報告"},{"start":9635.23,"end":9635.33,"text":"拜訪委員"},{"start":9657.045,"end":9657.526,"text":"謝謝廖委員 現在休息10分鐘"},{"start":10273.015,"end":10279.001,"text":"好,我們繼續開會現在有請陳雪真委員發言剛才那個調查局打電話來今天是我們專委魯明哲委員的生日來點掌聲好不好"},{"start":10300.322,"end":10322.678,"text":"你幹嘛講調查局啊有點壓力我哪有那麼厲害祝我們召委生日快樂長命百歲早生貴子生完了生完了是不是請我們黃志偉謝謝黃部長黃部長對不起部長我接續上一次的質詢"},{"start":10330.441,"end":10331.983,"text":"昨天我看你們的官網"},{"start":10348.956,"end":10351.598,"text":"那在遠船的部分遠船的部分南竿大概只有四圍村可能老家記一下"},{"start":10383.811,"end":10405.795,"text":"市委村還收不到,北竿大概我講遠傳的部分北竿大概各村都通,但是村外村落以外的都收不到,那舉光那邊大概除了清凡跟大屏、福鎮、涵蓋率上渴了"},{"start":10407.253,"end":10432.448,"text":"其他村莊也都收不到,全無東雲鄉就是樂華村跟中柳村含要率尚可其他地區也收不到我講到其他地區可能我們有阿兵哥有軍人防衛部、指揮部、營部、聯部我想馬祖地區我們居民一家同島一命"},{"start":10434.736,"end":10461.042,"text":"這個部隊的部分也勞駕能夠幫忙一下好不好部長先跟委員報告我們在12月2號有開了針對這個問題有開了一個會那我們在偏鄉就是說在預算方面我們變成2.25億就希望能夠改進剛剛講到馬祖這個5G的涵蓋那細節是不是請市長再進一步說明好你說明一下勒"},{"start":10463.401,"end":10488.369,"text":"我們上次11月22日委員執行之後我們12月22日立刻就召集了三大針對馬祖地區的建設那所以剛剛我們部長有說我們其實114年前截有2.25億然後呢現在馬祖有125台5G基地台跟委員說明5G所以會不好是因為它後面的背後後面的後船不夠強大所以我們現在這個海南也積極在建置然後我們"},{"start":10489.289,"end":10501.937,"text":"其實明年會再加設9站的基地台以馬祖人口來講總共125加9這個人比例非常高我們會再加謝謝委員今天提供這些資訊我們會再請業者再加錢臺灣大哥大都未達40%未達40%"},{"start":10511.107,"end":10538.762,"text":"那麼當然剛才部長也講了113年10月補助5G業者建置15340座的5G基地台全國那是全國全國應該有2萬台了吧?3萬了還2萬?基地台啊?全國10萬台補助的部分是1萬不錯啦,我們目前普及率應該全世界台灣地區算最高的"},{"start":10540.541,"end":10547.646,"text":"114年編任預算2.25億,剛剛部長講了補助電信事業加速在偏遠地區設置5G基地台現在5G時代已經來臨了,離島無感1421億的標金只進不出你看目前"},{"start":10569.369,"end":10590.162,"text":"我們4G的手機大概都已經買不到了市面上沒有了都5G的但是卻還在沿用4G時代的4G的普及率比較高5G的很像還不到達一半還沒有到達一半那我是覺得112年2月2號跟8號我們海嵐中斷兩條"},{"start":10597.401,"end":10620.319,"text":"海產中量兩台那麼大概是中共漁船還是不明的船隻破壞了那麼政府的機關金融交易醫療服務及交通運輸等運作我們受到影響這個到月底才恢復到月底所以這個時間沒辦法即時的轉換"},{"start":10625.058,"end":10653.075,"text":"提升馬祖離島網路的韌性,強化低軌衛星提供全天候的24小時全時段的服務這個是很重要的,部長你覺得呢?目前我們有低軌衛星有8個盤子在馬祖那這個低軌衛星引入馬祖通訊的韌性提升"},{"start":10654.69,"end":10672.28,"text":"也拜託速發部啊你們現在是不是在全時的服務啊?我不曉得你雖然已經完成了全台第一軌衛星的網路的涵蓋但是還沒有到達24小時來提供服務所以本席"},{"start":10673.4,"end":10697.894,"text":"想請教一下截至目前為止全台灣的衛星通訊是不是已經24小時全時在服務?就是12月底前就會全台24小時服務什麼時候開始?12月底就是等那個灣位那邊確認開通應該在目前給我們的數的那個時間是12月底部長那個上次講到我們第四條海欄"},{"start":10699.525,"end":10729.205,"text":"第四條海欄你們要補助中華電要補助多少錢大概?1.4億1.4億?會不會太少了一點?因為我看你們預算編了很多啊NCC所有的經費預算都已經在你們都已經在書發布了嘛所以你這個如果不去處理啊那個我們繼續爭取額外預算來補助這個海底電能1.4億能不能再增加一些?我們去爭取,我們會去爭取"},{"start":10730.987,"end":10755.116,"text":"因為我現在就少三一點嘛是不是?你補助多一點我就少三一點嘛因為這個大家對尤其NCC啊現在任務我看起來已經慢慢逐漸在萎縮了啦齁所有的功能都已經在速發部了那你速發部的角色當然相對的持重啦齁那你中華電信雖然是官民股都有啦齁"},{"start":10756.734,"end":10776.343,"text":"問題是他們有沒有那麼多錢我是很懷疑是不是請數法部這邊在經費補助的部分能夠再做一些檢討稍微給他調整一下我們加速第四條海欖線的進行那麼尤其海欖在中斷的時候你們低軌衛星怎麼樣進場"},{"start":10779.12,"end":10779.941,"text":"接下來有請邱若驊委員發言"},{"start":10812.261,"end":10840.285,"text":"謝謝主席首先先祝主席生日快樂那主席我們有請事務發布黃部長好黃部長部長好部長我們先來看到第一張投影片請問部長這兩張圖差別在哪裡兩張圖下面有多個可以看到更多的說明可以什麼樣的說明"},{"start":10841.837,"end":10868.52,"text":"就是這個什麼東西不見了就是上網點擊人數不見了點擊人數不見了那11月13日的時候黃國昌在我們交通委員會質詢的時候有針對素材署樂齡好幫手網站點閱率過低的問題提出質詢那隨後本席辦公室在11月28日上該網站上面查詢點擊率的時候發現點擊率消失了不見了"},{"start":10869.341,"end":10885.362,"text":"本席立即向素材署詢問為什麼點擊率會消失呢那素材署給本席的回覆是部長您參考因為使用者習慣不同所以會讓個別網站的點擊率過低所以個別的點擊率呢他不適合作為找尋平台資源的參考依據請問部長"},{"start":10886.664,"end":10888.225,"text":"為什麼原本在網站上的點擊率被拿下來了呢?"},{"start":10906.872,"end":10926.304,"text":"因為剛剛就像他那邊所講的就是事實上我們整個的效率單看單一個點因為有4000多個網頁可以看所以如果單看某一個當然他的數目可能不高可是整體來看他是超過8萬人不小心在你的說法如果認為個個別的點局不適合呈現那為什麼一剛開始要放在網站上面了"},{"start":10928.843,"end":10946.09,"text":"為什麼是在黃國昌委員質詢之後才遮蔽典舉律?這是不是鴕鳥事態?我個人認為說這個也不叫遮蔽就是說我們希望看到是整體的效益而不是單疊各個網頁的效益所以才會講說那我們是不是把這個展現的方式做點調整"},{"start":10946.65,"end":10956.796,"text":"是展現還是想要逃避?是要逃避國會的監督嗎?沒有逃避因為我們還是會展現所有的點擊率所以所有點擊率剛剛講超過8萬人次這個還在上面這沒有消失"},{"start":10957.364,"end":10984.536,"text":"這沒有消失可是剛在圖片上面看到我們確實點擊率是整體的網頁的那個點擊率那個在在這個這個那部長你可以再上去網頁上面看看現在都是看不到了那對於速發部本來就是要促進高齡者生活便利而建置的網站本心給予肯定還有支持可是遇到這個網頁點閱成效不彰的時候應該是要去面對吧是要去我我還有想辦法提升民眾的使用率我們要去promotion就是說我們要去做多點做點宣傳"},{"start":10985.536,"end":10994.28,"text":"所以你們自己本身有沒有去參考大數據去分析高齡者他們的興趣然後還有相關的愛好的文章還有問題你們有去做分析嗎"},{"start":10995.595,"end":11016.69,"text":"那個因為剛剛講就是這個東西是在我們是在10月10月21日上線所以所以這個資料的update一直在增加所以在黃委員黃國昌委員實施我們算是11月初的事情所以上線不到一個月那個是那時候show出來的number那現在我們這個這個經過這就多了一個月現在"},{"start":11017.23,"end":11039.76,"text":"是還是要請部長還有數位發展部就是被委員諮詢之後也不要用這種逃避的心態然後去遮蔽這個點閱率那也請數位發展部跟數位產署研議那如何有效推廣網站之對策還有另外點閱率為全民的監督政府之依據不應該被隱藏好那我們再來看到針對昨天的霸凌事件這邊要先請問部長"},{"start":11042.472,"end":11067.928,"text":"公務人員考積法第6條規定規定年中考積以100分為滿分分為甲乙丙丁4等請問部長公務人員評評中有混蛋這個等級嗎?那個報告委員這個事情我們正在內部調查中如果有不適當就是說調查結果出來在12月11號出來後我們會做立即處理所以這個所以沒有這個等級嗎?為什麼有基層員工爆料有長官很喜歡用混蛋來評比公務人員所以我我"},{"start":11068.648,"end":11070.229,"text":"這樣的評比是出於第一兩三嗎?"},{"start":11070.229,"end":11092.877,"text":"這不應該有這種語言出現所以我就說這個是第一個我們需要有幾個部分一個就是說以後我會跟這個我的這個部門的主管講就是這個我們特別有想到說我們要有鐵的機率但是也要愛的教育就是說跟這個我們的這個所謂的部門的同仁溝通的時候要特別把愛放在心上所以若有愛在"},{"start":11093.297,"end":11099.632,"text":"有愛的教育有鐵的紀律然後還有混蛋這個評價那另外我要再問到那再來我要請教部長一個問題打X是什麼意思"},{"start":11104.558,"end":11127.279,"text":"報告委員這個我不清楚但是我們在調查就我會把它弄清楚現在這是數發部的職場文化嗎因為有的很喜歡給基層打差當然不是我們沒有這樣的一個那個絕大部分的主管跟這個我們部門同仁的溝通目前絕大部分啊這個都都都都就是說目前並沒有太多並沒有任何的抱怨但是少數那這我們在調查"},{"start":11128.22,"end":11141.19,"text":"因為11月20日的時候院長就要求各部會要來做清查然後數位發展部司長就被爆料了那本席對於數位發展部發覺自己內部能力的問題更是要打上一個大大的差還是部長你要不要給自己打一個差"},{"start":11144.503,"end":11161.402,"text":"我剛剛特別跟委員講就是說有一些不當的言語跟不當的行為我們調查之後我們會做處置那當然這個是非常不恰當的那我這邊剛剛也跟其他委員說我特別為這件事情做個道歉就是這個我們會事後處理"},{"start":11163.277,"end":11175.522,"text":"部長您昨天有回應已經成立專案小組了然後調查報告什麼時候出來12月11號以前會出來12月11號那部長您對數發布發生辦理案件部長您掌握多少瞭解多少那個"},{"start":11178.45,"end":11206.882,"text":"我在那個11月22號在院長在在在要求調查的時候我已經交代我們的部門的那個主管說我們開始要做內部調查那這個過程中當然發生了這些所謂的這些申訴案我們當然就要立刻處理那當然就是說至於說這個申訴我們剛剛講我們請了所謂的我們有請了幾個外部的專家包括學法律專家跟心理輔導專家從各個層面去評估這個事情的發生的原因背景跟他的行為"},{"start":11207.702,"end":11219.806,"text":"那蘋果報告出來後我們就會立刻處理所以是不是啊那本期希望這不是只是一個走一個流程跟走一個形式然後就吵吵結案了這邊問部長一個問題部長你今天的點心買了嗎部長你吃點心嗎點心對"},{"start":11222.54,"end":11248.516,"text":"通常不是我為什麼會問這個問題是因為原本規定開會喔便當或是點心喔只要一提供即可可是啊就有長官卻無視已經原本有會議便當了還強制要求公務員再提供點心導致公務員他不能違背這個法規下的前提他只能自己操腰包然後吸收買單部長您知道嗎這個也是在調查裡面這也在調查裡面那部長您知道師長的一個月薪水多少錢嗎師長的薪水"},{"start":11256.294,"end":11261.198,"text":"市長有人可以替部長做回答嗎?一定是不少啦那為什麼好沒關係部長那為什麼在數位發展部還有還有還有長官要基層公務人員替市長來做買單"},{"start":11276.157,"end":11285.45,"text":"這是不當的行為這是不當的行為喔那本席知道這個就是這只有一個感受啦稀有廖天丁劫富濟貧啊今有鄭市長劫貧濟急財謀趁中華對市長趁點心喔"},{"start":11290.39,"end":11316.187,"text":"那再來看到還有聽說師長的肺活量極差未來有沒有要接近徐明春部長開演唱會還是明年在中華隊資格經典賽的時候要不要請師長去球場用他強而有力的肺活量替我們中華隊來做應援呢就是我們這個要謹守這個公務人員應有的規範所以這個事情我們會部長您知道有咆哮下屬的這件事嗎"},{"start":11317.779,"end":11318.779,"text":"接下來有請徐副魁委員發言"},{"start":11354.503,"end":11355.785,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請黃部長黃部長"},{"start":11365.433,"end":11376.782,"text":"委員好部長好部長根據我們這個提交的一個預算報告我們114年度編列數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫的預算是1億9千多萬那因為這個計畫是從113年到116年是4年的計畫但是我們從這個今年執行的狀況來看今年好像執行率只有14.5%截至8月份"},{"start":11393.055,"end":11399.806,"text":"那不曉得這個問題出在哪裡?這樣會不會影響到後續這三年的一個執行一個進度?我請那個國際市的市長來做個說明"},{"start":11404.076,"end":11430.305,"text":"謝謝委員給我的時間有關於預算的諮詢率的部分因為我們在執行的過程中會有涉及到非常多的利害關係者必須要做充分的討論所以這諮詢率的整個開發的期程就會比較壓縮一點可是我們在這個壓縮過程中我們也希望說開發出來的東西是確保能夠非常的安全"},{"start":11430.985,"end":11457.903,"text":"那所以我們目前的諮詢率原則上在今年年底會達到基本的門檻值那明年後年的預算的執行就不受到整個專案執行期程的影響以上說明部長市長因為這個案子剛有提到因為是需求很複雜而且必須要整合很多多方的一個利害關係人的一個意見那但是當時我們在執行的時候難道這些問題沒有事先來做規劃嗎"},{"start":11459.905,"end":11465.23,"text":"這個包含這個風險評估嗎為什麼現在還得討論說這個執行率的問題會出現這樣的一個狀況這個這裡面有幾個重要計畫像數位皮夾計畫確實要牽涉到跟其他部會的溝通那所以這個的確在執行上需要討論跟溝通的那個過程會比較複雜跟比較冗長"},{"start":11483.107,"end":11501.454,"text":"但我也希望說能夠儘速的追上原來預計的執行的進度因為畢竟這裡面有幾個計畫是我們數位的這個所謂關鍵基礎建設是一個蠻多創新在裡面那這個如果推動得出來的話對政府的效率會有很高的提升所以我個人是對這計畫有蠻多的期許"},{"start":11503.816,"end":11526.875,"text":"我們都支持但是就是說還是要提醒說因為現在預算會期我們所有的立委大家也都會關注我們過去的執行的狀況跟未來你們便利的預算是不是合理執行上會不會有問題因為這個會影響到我們整個施政的方針跟我們這個百姓的一些福祉所以包含我們現在跨境數據這個授權系統的部分目前這個還有問題嗎"},{"start":11528.885,"end":11533.186,"text":"數位批夾目前的階段已經有一些雛形的版本目前已經開始在召開包含政府間還有產業間之間的整個數位批夾的一個應用方式跟後續的一個發展規劃"},{"start":11554.171,"end":11568.97,"text":"對,這個本席要提醒齁,這不要當時我們都推出這麼好的一個政策就跟數位身份證一樣,到最後將無疾而終,這個也被外界很多的指引齁,這個我們既然要講要做就應該要有具體的一個節奏啦齁,這點再提醒一下部長"},{"start":11569.551,"end":11594.512,"text":"我想數位創新關鍵的基礎建設計畫是有助於提升我們的一個基礎設施和促進一個跨境合作跟加速數位轉型的一個重大意義那這部分還是請部長我們團隊再強烈努力那針對行政院在去年訂定的新世代打擊炸氣的一個策略可能領1.5版那我知道我們數位部預計在明年就要推動這個2.0版"},{"start":11596.934,"end":11611.306,"text":"那不巧目前部長這個我們執行的進度是怎麼樣對就是在就是我們這個2.0版我們數話部被賦予一個主導的角色叫防詐那這邊委員所列的就是我們防詐目前會執行的一些"},{"start":11612.006,"end":11613.066,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11640.154,"end":11662.131,"text":"就會在這個方面就所謂的廣告實名制然後會讓這些平台上的所謂的詐騙廣告包括假名人廣告會大量減少所以這個已經預期那其實目前已經Google跟Nine已經全部配合他們已經執行實名制那這個Facebook大概在明年年底前會全面配合"},{"start":11662.811,"end":11685.418,"text":"所以這個方面我相信在目前已經減少大概九成了我們目前已經看到這個詐騙廣告在這個平台已經減少九成那明年應該會減少更多所以這個應該在這一方面我們會看到其他的像遊戲點數啊這個第三萬支付都有精進措施然後有這個所謂的網路平台所謂的遊戲平台都有一些也都看到效果"},{"start":11686.518,"end":11704.425,"text":"總結來說,我們會繼續努力的加強防詐的工作希望從源頭就防止詐騙集團這是目前我們的做法部長我想包含第三方支付跟遊戲點數詐騙這些案子的處理當然我想我們還是需要公司來協力合作"},{"start":11705.205,"end":11723.201,"text":"那當然就是說這個溝通的過程裡面當然部長也很辛苦但是我覺得我們還是要加快時程尤其包含這些電信業者也好銀行端的部分怎麼樣來做一個有效整合我們還是要有一些的這個具體的一個操作的一個量化的一些成績出來我提醒"},{"start":11724.005,"end":11741.163,"text":"好,不然那我請教一下針對這個AI的這個網路主動式的那個防禦關鍵技術這個案子那目前我們在便利的預算上面明顯我們感覺到計畫的目標跟成果鏈結不足那這部分我們怎麼樣來強化這個部分"},{"start":11744.546,"end":11764.533,"text":"這個計畫是我們補助治安院那治安院已經有根據這個這個把一些所謂KPI預計的KPI已經做了更明顯的說明那是不是請這個那報告委員最主要這個計畫大概就是說他駭客現在在用生人式AI進行攻擊之後他在一些技術或"},{"start":11765.754,"end":11781.175,"text":"或實效上會更加的提升所以我們大概這個部分我們就會委託資安院再去做用深圳市AI的方式當防守方然後來用AI的技術讓攻擊方能夠在實效或效能上能夠達到一次"},{"start":11782.196,"end":11806.224,"text":"那我們有沒有什麼具體的一些指標可以來直接反映所謂的一個AI的研發的一個水準包括有一些國際專利的一些申請數量還有技術商品化的一個進度這些有沒有比較具體的一個東西有包括委員我們大概在第一年補助在資安院的話我們在後續的相關的跟他所謂簽署補助契約條件的部分會把委員今天所"},{"start":11807.384,"end":11808.365,"text":"所以這個部分我們都會列入未來的KPI"},{"start":11832.648,"end":11849.079,"text":"目標二提到的推動友善的一個AI資安研發生態包含辦理這個技術交流材料的開發部分那這部分是不是有同樣有一個量化的一個達到的一個程度是這個也會就未來也會有一個量化的量化的一些指標跟數據"},{"start":11850.44,"end":11867.547,"text":"我想這個AI的一個網路主動防禦關鍵的技術研究這個是我們提升這個治安技術升級的很重要的一步但是現在既有的目標設定成果鏈結跟效益的一個量化本身還是認為還有加強的空間這部分請部長跟我們團隊繼續來努力謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":11870.868,"end":11887.207,"text":"那最後我想剛剛我們很多委員都提到我們這個職場霸凌這個案子那我想這個也是行政院之前有一直有請相關部會一定要審慎處理的一個重要的一個作為那我想部長"},{"start":11887.888,"end":11887.908,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"},{"start":11914.875,"end":11918.796,"text":"好謝謝許委員接下來有請蔡吉昌委員發言謝謝主席請黃部長黃部長"},{"start":11943.68,"end":11958.416,"text":"部長還是我們繼續就打詐的議題再跟你請教這個上一次本席已經提到這個執法我們要公告來實施本席上次質詢我也很關心說那是不是"},{"start":11959.656,"end":11980.193,"text":"一月一號開始我們就可以開始對於實名制如果這些通路平台沒有做到我們就可以開始進行相關的這個處分那我又看到這個Meta宣稱明年一月底廣告代理商全面落實實名制"},{"start":11981.394,"end":12004.774,"text":"部長你有看到這個嗎有,他有跟我們討論那就是實際上是從這個月現在12月開始他是分成高風險、中風險跟低風險先從高風險的所謂的廣告的用戶開始執行實名制那廣告用戶的實名制這個一月底的意思就是說如果到一月底他還沒有辦法落實廣告"},{"start":12006.115,"end":12031.955,"text":"用戶的實名制那訴發部要怎麼處理就開始進入那個我們的那個法規就是罰錢就罰則了嘛進入罰則這個數字啊這個是他們自己講的就我上一次我已經擔心了嘛你說1月1號我就跟你講1月1號甘做會搞你看他現在馬上跟你講1月底了嘛那我現在開始又先預測啦希望我的預測不要再審準一次到1月底他又說還沒準備好跟你說2月底"},{"start":12033.032,"end":12057.314,"text":"部長不能一拖再拖啦這個一定要確實這是他們自己講的喔那第二個部分啊那我們的廣告實名制啊我看一下我們這個這個政策上面啊是不是先從大型大公司開始做起還是說一月底開始只要任何的"},{"start":12059.357,"end":12074.128,"text":"這個上廣告在這些通路平台上面上廣告都要實名字不管你上廣告的公司大跟小一月底是所有的廣告只要是寫個贊助廣告這個贊助商都要經過實名字好所以除了大廠"},{"start":12075.149,"end":12100.356,"text":"就大的這些銀行那什麼之外任何只要你要做廣告的都要實名制只要上面寫個贊助廣告就是要實名制好那如果這樣的邏輯沒有抓大放小如果沒有抓大放小的話那換言之民眾從2月1號開始就不應該再看到這樣的事情對不對"},{"start":12101.246,"end":12127.388,"text":"就是如果再有這樣的事情我們就可以溯源就應該是他們要先認證啦如果說他們認證不可能看到了嘛部長因為他要實名制嘛所以舉例嘛這個什麼你現在看到的這個這個是賣我們中華職棒假帽T的廣告嘛這個球迷每天都跟我檢舉啊"},{"start":12129.316,"end":12131.99,"text":"我覺得我在網路上呼籲沒什麼用我所以我來呼籲你"},{"start":12133.178,"end":12157.113,"text":"這是不是從2月1號才講,因為這個所謂磨曼頓這個沒有實名,這個就假的嘛,連磨曼頓這個都是假的。對,那個,報告委員,就是如果有這個廣告出現,因為它是實名制,所以我們一定可以找到賣廣告的這個人,那當然就可以把他繩之以緩。是嘛,就是不可能再出現,連找這個人都找不到嘛。你可以找到這個人,他就不敢登了嘛。這個邏輯就是這個意思嘛。所以這個,"},{"start":12160.015,"end":12166.74,"text":"明年二月一號我不希望再看到啦齁這個大家都講好數發部要有一點作為這個這個如果再出現的話這太離譜這個我們現在說實在話"},{"start":12170.316,"end":12170.336,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":12191.298,"end":12213.03,"text":"這個讓部長也看一下這個齁目前現在網路上很夯但是這個都是仿冒的都是假的啦齁都是仿冒的能不能出這個產品我都懷疑啦能不能真的拿到一件假冒的假的帽T我都懷疑齁好這是第一個啦齁我想先跟部長做一個溝通第二個啦這個我們網路詐騙通報的這個查詢網啊我們從10月14號就公測結束嘛對不對齁"},{"start":12220.404,"end":12244.498,"text":"那部長公測結束之後檢討起來優缺點是什麼那個就像這個委員的簡報講的就是第一個就是那個當初公測的時候雖然是一萬兩千人多人下載但是那個量就有一個人可以檢舉可能一次好幾百甚至好幾千件所以那個量的確很大"},{"start":12244.838,"end":12267.415,"text":"議員８"},{"start":12267.435,"end":12295.649,"text":"通報超過將近到6萬件然後下架了15000件也就這個通報讓我們能夠及時下架1萬件的假廣告那確實有它的效果但是也是因為這樣關係所以那個可能是那個詐騙集團怎樣他們就會來做惡意的攻擊那攻擊包括包括上傳像像一些什麼有的沒的像色情網頁等等等這種東西我們也要自動處理所以就是說發現有一些可能還有就一個就是介面讓它更好用"},{"start":12296.229,"end":12310.717,"text":"所以這些都在更新中我們是希望這個更新完以後在12月底再去公測一次然後再看看這個是不是如果行政院通過我們就會正式上線好所以部長結論就是公測的結果你們覺得效果很好"},{"start":12312.974,"end":12334.41,"text":"但是有一些缺點這個缺點不一定是這個網路的缺點可能是對手可能會做什麼回應的缺點那我們會來加以改善所以部長我想請教那什麼時候可以再要再公測一次什麼時候要再上線目前我給團隊定的目標是12月底12月底就是說再三個禮拜吧"},{"start":12334.73,"end":12358.497,"text":"然後但是最後要不要再上就變正式版那要行政院測試通過所以我們現在也在安排好所以正式版你的預估大概什麼時候可以目前希望那就是明年第一季不過這個還是要行政院通過才可以我知道我知道前提都不用講我說你個人的主觀我個人是希望能夠在第一季但是這個這個有些condition就是好"},{"start":12358.837,"end":12385.727,"text":"那包括一些個資的問題這個都要一併處理因為我們也有接到一些反應說個資檢舉的個資容易在這裡被洩漏這些都要一併處理所以我想打詐就是我一直在講大概我就跟你講過第一次我們基本就跟你講大概在這個台上我只有速發部重中之重我每天看到你就會問打詐我會持續follow這些進度那我持續follow的目的就是要讓你們"},{"start":12387.128,"end":12412.275,"text":"我其實不是指責你們啦我希望一方面督促你們二方面也當你們的靠山啦讓所有的跟打詐有關的包括業者啦政府其他的部位都知道立法院對這個問題是非常的關心這個是人民心中的痛這個是台灣當前最大的社會問題之一啦所以我們要趕快來加以面對跟解決"},{"start":12413.035,"end":12429.321,"text":"所以對的事情比如說我剛剛講過這些實名制的這些廣告時間能提早要求業者的配合要落實不可以讓他們再這樣大家一起混啦反正過一天是一天第二個有用的東西像這個通報查詢網"},{"start":12431.442,"end":12456.24,"text":"公測完缺點改善再公測一次再缺點改善那就要趕快來實施如果行政院有困難我們立法院也可以質詢行政院所以我希望大家一併努力把這個事情做好好不好好謝謝部長謝謝委員的鼓勵謝謝好謝謝蔡委員接下來有請許智傑委員發言"},{"start":12467.821,"end":12481.992,"text":"謝謝主席。我們請部長。黃部長。部長好。部長你知道我要問什麼嗎?數位工"},{"start":12485.605,"end":12508.633,"text":"什麼時候可以做那個報告委員上次我們在那個台南開會嘛那一次開會就是我們就決定就是我們會先做規劃那我會申請經費這個我也跟國科會主委提過也給他一個規劃書那我們會申請科發基金很快就要進行先把規劃做出來然後再去看再去再去執行OK那個齁那一天市長有到我辦公室跟我"},{"start":12509.96,"end":12510.08,"text":"第二頁"},{"start":12541.52,"end":12563.472,"text":"我們數話部就是說為了提升國際海欄登陸站的韌性建設促進我國國際通訊基礎建設的韌性發展所以呢這個不是說我們還編了那個獎補助費嘛對不對還有五千多萬的海欄登陸站的那個補助費用所以相對的就是說"},{"start":12565.083,"end":12578.793,"text":"任重道遠如果我們先假設這個海南站通通不成立的時候我們國家會急嘛總不能沒有嘛阿如果都沒有人來的時候到底怎麼處理嘛所以我也先感謝一下就是我們書畫部就是在9月2號10月1510月22都有召開這個座談會"},{"start":12594.874,"end":12617.43,"text":"那我也有去參加過一場那基本上我為什麼一直這樣要求就是說這個對我們高雄來講非常的重要但是呢業者他如果通通不來或是他沒有主動來的時候啊這個國家任性建設又是關鍵基礎設施是不是速發部現在有"},{"start":12618.737,"end":12634.091,"text":"主動那也謝謝你們在開會的時候有7家國際海南的業者有來啦所以事實上書發部也蠻主動的我蠻感謝的但是最後就是巴士已經有一撇了那第二撇不知道什麼時候可以劃得成"},{"start":12635.73,"end":12662.849,"text":"這報委員就是剛剛講就是我們現在就是要做規劃案那規劃案就是我們由我們來主導那規劃案現在就是在經費方面我們現在就是要跟國科會申請課發基金這個也有跟國科會主委吳主委也有提過那我們現在正在進行這個工作只要這個經金下來我們就規劃規劃完以後剛剛就委員講的一些可能就是未來的營運啊未來的這個這個內容就會比較細部的規劃那這時候就再來再來"},{"start":12664.19,"end":12673.635,"text":"再來看下一步的工作也就是說還是要找到一個營運商來對江南縣好規劃就交給你們因為你們專業那我是希望說有沒有預計什麼時候可以有結果規劃的那個現在在申請嘛"},{"start":12682.182,"end":12702.09,"text":"委員報告我們12月因為剛剛其實剛剛委員解釋的關鍵就是誰要來這八字的另外一撇現在重點是對於七家海南業者來講他們想要知道效益評估所以我們12月中會盡快召開因為把這個需求帶出來以後才能夠比較明確說明年"},{"start":12702.89,"end":12719.026,"text":"明年Q1因為我們同步已經在申請課發基金那明年Q1看至少有一個有一個initial有一個初步的一個確認因為需求要評估出來後這些海南業者才願意提出申請所以明年第一季希望有機會"},{"start":12721.007,"end":12748.519,"text":"那個OK先謝謝你們了就是12月現在已經12月了所以我們12月大概中旬我們大概20號前後我們會跟經濟部還有高雄市政府還有那個先把需求面把它研究出來我想我問了很多次了部長跟施展應該都很熟了就是說將來"},{"start":12750.08,"end":12760.099,"text":"需求面是看很遠嘛那你現在台灣的AI的硬體製造業我們現在是世界最強的嘛"},{"start":12761.008,"end":12779.619,"text":"未來AI的設計跟應用當然我是比較私心不過我們高雄的條件也真的比北部好所以將來這個高雄好好的發展這個AI的設計跟應用我們有機會變成全台灣最好的一個AI的城市"},{"start":12782.057,"end":12791.893,"text":"當然這個的基礎點就是這個海嵐站部長跟市長也都覺得很重要所以我再一次的強調我希望說我本來一直覺得誰去掛鈴鐺"},{"start":12795.21,"end":12817.507,"text":"您說台南業者私人公司我們也不方便去找那如果是用數位發展部用公開公平公正的方式然後呢又你看這裡又有補助那由數位發展部來做一個尋找跟照標是最好啦所以我是覺得我的結論是這個鈴鐺我們就掛在數位發展部身上"},{"start":12822.723,"end":12832.469,"text":"務必到最後能夠促成海南真的完成那部長有沒有這樣子一個侃奉的信心我們努力啦我們努力對"},{"start":12835.22,"end":12862.728,"text":"部長不敢說沒問題就是努力就是說我們還是就是規劃書出來就比較清楚到底是業者意願因為最終還是要有人去營運蓋完也會有人去所以我這幾個例子給部長參考我們鳳山火車站現在已經蓋好了那現在要招標要招商那如果台鐵公司的董事長跟我說我就努力招標但是如果標不出去的話"},{"start":12864.364,"end":12892.607,"text":"我那個地方空在那裏所以他不能說他要,他要跟我說他務必要完產那些地方如果沒有標出來是不會看的當然廠商有很多不同的考量他們當然要賺錢啦,料錢的生意沒人做啦那我鳳山其實好處就是我找了一個山井拉拉破進來但是呢他們就變成說將來還要跟那個拉拉破競爭所以變成廠商也會猶豫跟卻步"},{"start":12894.724,"end":12901.482,"text":"所以這個都是商場上的問題我們知道但是台鐵公司總不能告訴我說我努力"},{"start":12903.117,"end":12927.557,"text":"我剛才說你務必要完成啦 這個空在那裏是真的很難看 所以是務必要完成那部長既然認為這個真的是國家重大建設 這個也是整個國家跟城市發展的重要指標 這個東西如果沒有完成 那我們後續的不要說我高雄的AI首都啦 包括全台灣的AI啦 都會受到"},{"start":12928.882,"end":12942.927,"text":"議員８"},{"start":12943.755,"end":12971.749,"text":"發言委員就是我剛才講就是說我們第一階段先把規劃弄出來然後規劃出來後再再來規劃交給專業規劃我們來規劃OK我只希望說有人願意把它單下來說我一定會努力到最後把它完成這樣子一個重責大難這個是國家不只是高雄這是國家AI基礎建設重要的一個項目我們務必要讓國家完成這個項目"},{"start":12972.89,"end":13001.936,"text":"我覺得規劃之後會有很多細節出來包括經費的需求等等等 這個出來後我們比較知道應該怎麼執行這樣部長我覺得你比較保守一點因為這個的確是一個大工程 所以我需要一些資訊來做這個所謂的commitment不過這個報告委員沒問題 我們會把這個東西一步一步把它做好你就說好了 我們會一步一步把它做到完成啦好不好我們努力努力不砸"},{"start":13003.553,"end":13019.93,"text":"政府說 部長我告訴你這是一個做部長的擔當啦今天我是許志杰是一個李偉夢你你才會這樣回答啦我上一次有問過部長一次今天賴金澤總統問他說啊部長你覺得這樣子努力到他完成為止你肯不肯"},{"start":13021.243,"end":13025.246,"text":"部長,其實我現在的脾氣很好。 我知道在亞洲我真的可以賺很多錢你知道嗎?"},{"start":13048.929,"end":13069.998,"text":"那個委員我們在我跟你講說我們一定會把這個先把規劃做出來以後再看後面怎麼進行那再跟委員做看怎麼樣安排再請委員支持這樣就是報告預算的爭取報告方面都需要再去努力這樣我們主席聽到就覺得愛笑我看保證今天不要說你做保證我做保證啦所以我不是來行的啦"},{"start":13076.909,"end":13088.514,"text":"一個海南站在你的專業上有那麼困難嗎?推動一個海南站的登陸站,我如果說今天去全台都沒人設,我一定有付錢找到人來設。"},{"start":13089.935,"end":13089.955,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":13108.32,"end":13127.223,"text":"好啦,一定給我完整,你就說這樣我就稍微完整了好不好,這個其實不是那麼困難的事,這個其實部長這個是一個政治擔當跟判斷我們會盡力的,這是好的事情,我們會盡力的這不要說你,這只要我許智傑,我如果做數位發展部長,我跟部長我一定會當完整的部長你就做到給我完整就對了,完整好啦,謝謝"},{"start":13137.11,"end":13141.091,"text":"好謝謝許志傑委員也謝謝部長接下來請尤浩委員發言好謝謝趙偉謝謝主席那有請部長好我們請部長"},{"start":13168.391,"end":13189.978,"text":"好 部長好 部長想直接先請教一下在今年7月的時候部長曾經公開的宣稱數位發展部要成立一個假訊息委員會那應該應面對網路上各式各樣的假訊息不實訊息那我想先請教部長這個委員會大家眾所期待進度如何"},{"start":13191.026,"end":13212.585,"text":"報告委員主要是我們想結合NGO的力量因為我覺得訊息的真假不應該由政府來判斷所以那時候我的這個想法是說我們會結合像我們現在有這個網路事實通報網路事實查核中心還有所謂這些NGO包括什麼Micro Pen我們是希望藉由這些民間力量對假訊息來做一個判斷"},{"start":13213.266,"end":13233.064,"text":"但是最後要不要下架這展訊息還是需要有一個目的事業主導機關來跟我們講那我們就可以下架這樣好那所以說今天來講還是要針對假訊息或網路上的不實訊息來做一些處理嘛那到時候再做一個判斷那我們看一個圖那在這個圖我不知道這個部長你有沒有看過"},{"start":13234.181,"end":13245.38,"text":"在昨天的話有這樣子的一個訊息那我想請教一下部長像這樣子的一個圖啊一個梗圖啊那他這樣子是真的訊息還是假的訊息還是是屬於不實的訊息"},{"start":13250.571,"end":13273.505,"text":"他上面有提到了零零總總因為南韓昨天在戒嚴嘛這個是全世界都在關注那這樣子的一個梗圖啊還沒有發揮人雞幾雞人膩幾膩關心國際情勢的這種擔憂的心情煩惡還在上面就寫啊百般刁難王逸川就職除了他沒有戴酒車旗之外應該也沒有什麼刁難到"},{"start":13275.808,"end":13288.963,"text":"為什麼很多訊息需要由NGO來判斷?因為這是個人的意見我想問一下像這樣子的訊息是不是就等於是一個模糊焦點或是一個不實訊息或是一個在操弄社會對立的一個訊息"},{"start":13289.764,"end":13311.278,"text":"是不是如果是有違反違背這樣子的一個風氣的時候是不是就應該要有專業的一個機制來讓他下架對不對沒錯就是說為什麼不適合由政府來做判斷就是像這種訊息應該交由社會的那我想直接請教一下部長您看這樣的訊息在昨天那樣子的場合像這樣子一個梗圖是不是應該要下架"},{"start":13312.358,"end":13330.745,"text":"這個是個人言論自由個人言論自由對那所以說像這樣訊息的話其實在假訊息委員會來講的話是不用被審核不用下架的不是就是這個其實這是個人的意見所謂假訊息就是說他拿假內容的話是內容那是個人意見那你知道這個帳號是什麼帳號嗎"},{"start":13333.366,"end":13359.381,"text":"好我跟你講這個就是立法院民進黨黨團帳號但他自己就下架了啦沒關係但是我還是要針對這個這樣子用小號發生張貼不實訊息那以及目前假訊息委員會的設置進度及業務分工以及就是未來來講要為社會帶來的這個就是實際上效益還是希望數發部可以在一個月"},{"start":13360.041,"end":13384.944,"text":"左右來跟交通委員會做一個進度上面的報告專案報告來讓我們對於假訊息的委員會能夠有更清楚的認知部長這樣可以嗎我就是會把我們的現在想法大概做個規劃不過就是剛剛講就是我這個所謂的委員會是指的是這個是一個NGO當一個組織那我們跟NGO都有談過所以我想就是用跟就是說一個訊息的出現應該有同時好幾個團體那沒關係部長"},{"start":13387.185,"end":13409.95,"text":"但是我希望在這過程中包括一個月左右的專案報告針對以這樣子的梗圖為例的一個假訊息委員會的進度那包括NCO的邀請那是要在社會是公正的那不是盡量避免這意識形態那我接著要就叫就是邀請我們的任性建設師市長"},{"start":13413.659,"end":13432.427,"text":"在今天我們其實看到部長他其實有為了訴發部的同仁跟士氣那也是跟大家做一個道歉我知道這部長其實是很希望我們部內大家的士氣能夠維護"},{"start":13433.948,"end":13459.491,"text":"那當然說在這個霸凌的一個行為來講在目前社會各界飽受檢討所以我知道師長其實你心裡很清楚所以我相信師長今天如黃建豪委員所說的您有出息還不像勞動部的分署長他選擇逃避那所以在這裡您的出息我相信您也是正面的面對啦那我實在個人是覺得啦"},{"start":13460.137,"end":13472.991,"text":"部長剛才的為了這個部分的道歉他也是為了您的道歉我覺得其實現在社會各界欠一個說法今天姑且不論調查報告13號才出爐我覺得針對這個事件來講我想請市長簡單的30秒做一個回應除了在"},{"start":13479.238,"end":13491.012,"text":"回應推給說調查報告我覺得其實就頓對著訴發部的同仁有看著部長來簡短的來回應不管是道歉也好或是回應也好請讓你30秒"},{"start":13494.338,"end":13507.736,"text":"接著就是我們剛剛說的生智檢討那我也部長你道歉我也是先要造成大家的困擾一定要先道歉對同仁非常的抱歉生智檢討接受調查"},{"start":13510.399,"end":13528.857,"text":"希望說這個部分能夠痛定思痛那因為我們不否認你對你們領域的專業但是我坦白講機關內大家必須還要上下一心那覺得延續剛才許志堅委員所提到的就是我翻到了我們這個預算書這個PTT的最後一頁那"},{"start":13530.171,"end":13558.469,"text":"在這個預算書上面所揭示的內容啊訴發部預算總說明他的重要施政追蹤管制考核的這個實施成果跟說明的部分我們看到了辦理總統副總統巡視指示及交班事項行政院重要會議決定決議事項及院長指示事項還有財政法人的管理監督那我想請問一下我們看了這個實施成果跟內容那我們也"},{"start":13559.289,"end":13581.608,"text":"翻了所有部會的預算書但是就只有訴發部他是把立法院跟民意的部分不列在管考的這個就是考核標準那我想請問一下部長這個要如何改進這個說明的部分那個是不是我想這個是說明的內容是不是再補充說明一下是不是"},{"start":13586.378,"end":13596.109,"text":"總統或副總統這個巡視指示交辦事項這個我都知道蔡市長你很認真我知道我是說那立法院跟民意的部分為了不在數法部的管考內容之中"},{"start":13597.25,"end":13598.09,"text":"接下來的話本席針對我們看到這個軟體"},{"start":13616.556,"end":13640.89,"text":"就是目前司法院他們的員工有跟我們這邊陳情他是有強制在司法院的機關電腦來講必須用個人手機登錄以及包括跟這個他的系統做一個聯動那我想請問一下我們目前看到的這樣子的手機必須要登錄機關電腦以及使用這個APP那部長知道這個APP嗎?"},{"start":13642.371,"end":13657.665,"text":"我自己也有的IDExpert這個這個是不是這個有幾個單位有在用包括包括他這是強制的嗎就是多因子認證裡面這是一個一個管道那這個管道像像那個有些單位我知道有在用這樣的一個軟體"},{"start":13658.746,"end":13682.699,"text":"那這個部長您自己有在使用我自己在在我們的這個因為我個人在中研院的網站他也是用這個軟體所以我有在用那目前來講因為時間已經到了那司法院的同仁他有跟我們這邊陳情啊那他是說這個是是不是能夠達到這個個資的標準以及包括在技術上的防護都能夠不被竊取個資尤其他們在"},{"start":13683.479,"end":13703.557,"text":"公司如果用這個登錄之後他們聯動的個人手機包括他們的通訊軟體的通話訊息會被做一個聯動甚至在技術上是不是安全因為司法院他必須被要求使用這個APP的時候也表示著包括未來地檢署調查站等等他們也是會被要求還用這樣子的一個系統APP"},{"start":13704.378,"end":13726.286,"text":"那我本期在這裡還是建議就是部長能夠簡單的回應啊因為司法體系調查體系對這個APP的要求使用他們對技術上的質疑到底是這樣子的房屋是堅若磐石嗎還是說會不會被駭客攻擊的時候變成以卵即死那我在想在這個使用上的技術是不是部長簡單回應就好"},{"start":13728.066,"end":13747.292,"text":"這個IDExpert就像講他是用這些我們所知道的像FIDO啦這些OTP的技術就是說當然系統implementation有沒有漏洞又不是很清楚但是他用的標準他用的機制是OK的所以我想這個還是可以再進一步去評估就是了"},{"start":13747.572,"end":13775.445,"text":"所以不會被駭客入侵?就是說如果他的implementation畢竟軟體是人寫的嘛如果軟體是不是夠安全這個因為不是很清楚但是他現在所講的這個不管是FIDO或是OTP這個是現在所謂的多因子認證常用的標準所以這個標準是OK但是在所謂的這個軟體的產生過程中是不是有其他漏洞這個是因為是全景的軟體我就不清楚"},{"start":13775.865,"end":13777.606,"text":"接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言"},{"start":13814.596,"end":13825.739,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府計畫上官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、新生。又請我們速發部黃部長還有主計處的李處長和人事處的莫處長。好,請部長、處長。好,那我要"},{"start":13841.34,"end":13863.343,"text":"好部長好兩位處長好我今天不要提呢短期專案補足政府治安能力定期公佈非實名制廣告平台來我們看一下部長既然我們政府的治安能力不足為什麼高考只開11名缺我看一下目前我們中央跟地方的缺額是239個但是呢提報值卻只提報11個結果不到200人來考什麼原因部長"},{"start":13868.51,"end":13876.256,"text":"簡單的說,我直接問你啦,為什麼?是因為我們公部門待遇低嗎?你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給跟績效獎金了?合訂了沒?簡單,好時間有限好,報告委員因為這個考試公布是12月28號你簡單告訴我有沒有幫助?"},{"start":13887.443,"end":13892.365,"text":"政府加薪拚得過民間搶財嗎?美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬那一般的AI工程師在台灣也有大概300萬差不多平均月收入是25萬"},{"start":13912.031,"end":13937.122,"text":"我看你們考試院你們現在找的這些人我把名字調出來若是資安人員或資訊人員大概最頂到九萬或八萬八能比嗎部長你覺得這樣的就算加了專業家籍跟技巧養精有辦法搶得過人嗎確實是一個問題那怎麼辦怎麼解決這個是一個來我們來看一下現在公安部資安人員人體多少是不是剛剛那個數字"},{"start":13938.888,"end":13947.685,"text":"8萬9萬那跟明天下一題那月薪有10萬嗎?愛芳就像業界為什麼原因你知道嗎?"},{"start":13949.226,"end":13972.962,"text":"因為我們現在政府用的是怎樣?以質蓄心啊!如果你是師長階層的檢任12職等就12萬5你是科長的9職等的就8萬多以此類推也就是說你們的編制是什麼職缺來的人又什麼薪水是不是這樣子為什麼請人事跟主計來就要請他們幫忙講啊你們兩位處長趕快過來告訴他是不是以質蓄心政府用的是以質蓄心"},{"start":13973.542,"end":13999.321,"text":"沒有錯我們趕快趕快因為時間的關係往下看但是呢美國呢軍方很特別啊軍方他們需要這些資訊人才他們叫什麼以薪敘職啊你在民間多少錢我就用多少錢挖你這個錢如果相當於少校你進來就當少校這個錢現在進來是相當於少將你就是當少將部長你覺得如果我們要資安人才我們可以參照美國以薪敘職嗎"},{"start":14002.168,"end":14005.794,"text":"美國的做法我們沒辦法做 那往下來怎麼辦"},{"start":14013.356,"end":14033.788,"text":"你們現在做了大概三種一個是用正職或約聘僱那他就是以職續薪加上加給有薪酬上限但是呢可以直接執行另外一種就委外外包廠商包去做另外一種呢就是什麼承攬找人來找學界來找學來承攬委辦然後呢他就寫個研究報告他不能執行沒有薪資上限"},{"start":14034.915,"end":14054.506,"text":"除了這三種方法有沒有其他方法可以解決我們有那個法人像治安院他信了治安院就是委外啊他能夠職業執行嗎要搖頭到底是不是治安院是不是委外還是承攬治安院是我們的行政法人所以基本上也是半個政府主席他的心智也這樣有上限嘛可以追得上民間的標準嗎"},{"start":14056.241,"end":14056.481,"text":"接下來談打詐"},{"start":14069.281,"end":14096.381,"text":"儘管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台其中臉書跟meta加起來市占率四分之三但是呢詐騙廣告占了關係90%有將近6萬件嚴不嚴重嚴重對那你們怎麼做我在我報告裡面講過我們現在就是第一個要落實廣告實名制再來這就是廣告實名制的結果會杜絕很多這種假、詐騙很好所以呢我們立法院我質詢了13次我們跟行政院通過了4個法對不對"},{"start":14098.422,"end":14117.613,"text":"所以你們就說停止非實名制下廣告這是誰做的這一第一槍趙鋒晶開了第一槍是不是對有沒有效果有Meta說什麼訴發部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制是不是這樣子對真的會落實嗎我們等著看喔身份驗證百分之百落實好接下來"},{"start":14118.453,"end":14133.084,"text":"可是除了沒啥之外未落地的網路平台怎麼納管抖音這裡面有詐騙有毒品有色情小紅書三方詐騙點數卡淘寶也有淘寶小紅書抖音有落地嗎沒有落地沒有落地你怎麼管"},{"start":14138.431,"end":14161.502,"text":"我們現在這個第一個先處理剛剛講的這個投資詐騙廣告這些大概就是都是那是在有平臺有落地的平臺你可以要求他對不對那沒有落地的平臺怎麼辦怎麼納管也是一樣一個月提一個對應方案可以嗎可以那個這個就是我們就是事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析我們就會解析好頭目停止解析那是色情"},{"start":14162.262,"end":14181.083,"text":"所以除了同步停止解析之外我都猜得到你要做什麼了還有哪些對策其實網路平台如果實名制廣告其實就有很大的影響因為越多非實名制的你下單你的廣告容易受詐騙所以其實業界民間自發性的要求去抵制要非實名制他不下廣告"},{"start":14182.364,"end":14207.213,"text":"這個請你們定期公佈好不好你們定期公佈那些非實名制的廣告平台以及這平台的詐騙數量供民間參考廣告主自己做決定他要不要持續在這些沒有落地的或非實名制的平台他要不要繼續投放廣告我們讓這個市場力量來發揮機制可不可以以後定期做這個事情可以嗎定期公佈非實名制廣告網路平台及各網路平台的詐騙案件各樣數據"},{"start":14208.853,"end":14233.017,"text":"讓所有的廣告主知道你不要浪費錢在那些民間通販廣告不但無效而且助長詐騙好不好今天用三個決議兩個報告怎麼樣招攬人才怎麼樣未納管這些未落地的平台未納管錢你怎麼處置以及最後定期公佈好不好部長可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝中央兵委員謝謝部長接下來我們請楊瓊英委員發言"},{"start":14242.305,"end":14244.427,"text":"謝謝主席 陽泉發言 邀請部長 請部長 委員好"},{"start":14251.953,"end":14270.453,"text":"議長好,我們要討論出國的計畫編列,你在這個今年度是編列了2220萬4千元那你在113年現在呢是3133萬6千元所以相對你比今年度跟明年度呢你是明年度減了913萬2千元"},{"start":14272.936,"end":14281.618,"text":"但是我們去細看這裏面到底是怎麼回事因為112年的出國計畫是1408萬6千元你的決算是1342萬9千元達成率是95.30%比原先編列的出席重要的你在這個裏面相關活動裏頭跟重要會議裏頭總共是23項但是你的執行結果有6項他沒有執行的在你總共23項的26.09%"},{"start":14302.122,"end":14314.659,"text":"那在新增的最奇怪的是你竟然原來的不執行而新增的呢那麼未列預算的部分你有九項那你有九項包就等於是在23項裡頭的百分之四十四成"},{"start":14318.044,"end":14323.406,"text":"為什麼預算會這樣子編列還會這樣子執行呢請做說明這個違反預算法欸立法院三讀通過的預算你竟然有的你不執行沒有的你可以去執行這個邏輯怎麼這麼奇怪啊這到底是什麼重要的事項啊"},{"start":14340.233,"end":14345.516,"text":"不執行表示你的預估是有問題的那你沒有編列的你有9項增加欸你可以隨便這樣增嗎?可以如此嗎?這個你有辦理追加嗎?要怎麼做?"},{"start":14358.284,"end":14374.844,"text":"預算部門再請國際事務記者說有些計畫沒有執行的部分是因為原本有一些國際會議要去參與那我們的外交有問題囉還是人家不邀請我們還是我們自己不去參加"},{"start":14375.445,"end":14393.599,"text":"我們要去參加那只是說有些地區因為可能有些簽證的問題過不了就是臨時有問題所以就沒辦法做那你在編列預算當時我們還審預算那個騙立法委員喔跟委員報告對不對因為很多個國際活動他這個問題你們去精心那你沒有的竟然會增加9項怎麼回事呢"},{"start":14394.099,"end":14415.899,"text":"委員報告就是因為有些計畫在編列預算的時候因為112年在編列計畫的時候數位發展部丁寧成立所以我們是參考以往的編列方式去編列這個邏輯更奇怪注意聽部長你請回部長編列的預算沒有辦法執行沒有編的竟然可以去執行"},{"start":14417.901,"end":14437.702,"text":"我們政府的預算是經過立法院三讀通過送請行政院單位來執行之對不對怎麼可以這樣子亂搞呢亂來還剛剛回答的是說依照前年度那你們都沒有在精進部長依你的看法可以如此嗎"},{"start":14438.682,"end":14444.625,"text":"可以這麼做嗎?內部檢討部長還好你來一個內部檢討不然我們覺得太驚訝了怎麼可以這是一個公務預算怎麼可以隨便你要怎麼做就怎麼做"},{"start":14457.808,"end":14469.79,"text":"當然不行你要好好地去檢討來本席請你把檢討的方案給本席那本席跟你討論的114年裡頭你的民主網絡的連結跟這個這個是從113年1月份1月5號核定那總經費是7.8億你分4年度但是我們看到113年你編列的3.39億呢你到8月份我給你做統計只有14.5"},{"start":14485.293,"end":14493.22,"text":"部長,這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?委員報告,那個有關於質詢率會比較慢的原因是因為整個專案是比較新所以他有很多利害關係者在做協調什麼專案新不新這不是邏輯,你請回部長我要請你再一次聽清楚"},{"start":14511.214,"end":14525.923,"text":"這個預算是你們編出來的不是因為新他的年度到了只有完成率不到兩成你可以接受這樣的成效嗎部長你可以接受嗎請你告訴我當然不行所以要檢討趕快去經濟因為他是113年到116年以下的回答本席不希望聽到這種言語因為是新的你數發布是新的單位當然是新的政策新的計畫嘛"},{"start":14539.751,"end":14562.805,"text":"對不對怎麼可以如此的回答呢不負責任的回答這個計畫裡面有好還好你說不行所以執行率到現在8月份14.5趕快去精進人民需要接下來在一個議題深化政府資通訊的應用建設裡頭本席覺得非常的奇怪預算給沒有問題但是你在測試的結果審計部113年4月20號給你的是說"},{"start":14567.708,"end":14591.181,"text":"你發現你的連結網址失效的有118337筆但是你自己書發部說你失策的連結只有380筆哇那個差距部長差距多少45倍那我們政府經過公開資訊的可用性這麼低花了這麼多錢那到底誰在造假"},{"start":14593.516,"end":14594.877,"text":"審計部已經告訴你"},{"start":14617.518,"end":14621.582,"text":"一萬多筆。你們說380筆。差距45倍。李全惠部長這個要不要精進啊?你說的休息現在的時間科技資訊"},{"start":14633.931,"end":14653.22,"text":"對 這個這個失效這麼需要你把它關掉對失效的原因我們會再檢討不過剛剛講就是說你要維護期間關掉一些這個網站是大家都在做的事情那只是說這個數字到底現在還剩多少我們測完以後再跟委員做個報告到現在還不清楚審計部已經告訴你了審計部告訴你這一萬多筆因為你的落差45倍"},{"start":14659.944,"end":14675.773,"text":"請把正確的方案精進出來不要再粉飾太平審計單位已經告訴你了你還不精進 對不對你要看怎麼樣方案不要讓人民這麼痛苦趕快去精進多久時間告訴本席你的精進方案一個禮拜趕快加油"},{"start":14690.297,"end":14690.517,"text":"委員、部長、首長"},{"start":14720.71,"end":14721.858,"text":"謝謝主席,有請黃部長"},{"start":14729.738,"end":14752.447,"text":"謝謝部長我想數位信任很重要啦也希望全民可以信任數發部那我想我還是非常感謝我仔細閱讀了你們相關的這個過去一年所做的事跟相關的計畫在相關的資安跟技術上我覺得是有精進有不錯的成果先予以感謝那但是有幾個議題還是想要來就教一下想請教部長"},{"start":14753.747,"end":14773.247,"text":"在新的計畫書裡面呢你們有這個MOCN的預算是5.6億那低軌衛星是編了1.7億但是你們在第15頁的時候自己講了其實用所謂的傳統的這個5G的網路或者一般的電信基地台重大災難發生的時候可能會有部分的業者失效"},{"start":14774.09,"end":14782.823,"text":"那全球現在都在佈建低軌衛星但是我們反而MOCN的預算竟然是他的將近三倍這個規劃您知道嗎?您同意嗎?"},{"start":14783.985,"end":14785.825,"text":"這個請司長在這邊做個說明謝偉文我看這技術是這樣子"},{"start":14807.811,"end":14824.569,"text":"現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的這個技術所以他需要一些資本支出所以這個六億我們需要重新建對但是現在全世界都在限低軌衛星啊就你們現在是在補足多網路的跨網路我知道啊可是這個合不合邏輯啊部長有沒有理解過"},{"start":14826.26,"end":14841.247,"text":"我們看了各國都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統的網路就算你是多網路是對吧衛星只有Mega級的流量那那你救災的時候你是要怎麼樣你要下載兩G上傳兩G嗎不是吧"},{"start":14843.148,"end":14845.349,"text":"二、新增1億計畫新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫"},{"start":14870.284,"end":14893.598,"text":"兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出用什麼技術誰還執行一億要弄出30位資安人才這個部長知不知道你能不能簡要的回答第一個這個因為深圳市AI用深圳市AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展那我們這個計畫是委託這個會做一套自己的系統嗎委託誰會外包嗎是資安院嗎"},{"start":14897.062,"end":14918.717,"text":"那就是資安院執行就不用開標案了然後訓練30位人才然後產出會產出一套自己的軟體嗎用的是什麼樣的AI用的是什麼樣的技術已經確定了嗎還是需要額外的報告我跟委員報告一下這個是委託由資安院來執行那我們會內部我們沒有在委外"},{"start":14919.457,"end":14920.038,"text":"謝謝謝謝您可以在旁邊部長"},{"start":14938.953,"end":14956.981,"text":"書面上就是寫30位你不要現在來了突然變150然後到底是採用什麼技術講清楚這是一億的計畫好不好往後面所以能不能提出報告再提出來多久可以給細節一點的或者你們內部的計畫分享一下好不好我們提報告給委員"},{"start":14957.301,"end":14975.801,"text":"人民的錢一週內可以吧因為這個預算你都編進去啊好不好好再來資安事件啊現在有非常多監理站詐騙也提醒所有的民眾連我們辦公室助理都收到而且是怎麼樣他剛被開完罰單結果就收到哦就收到監理站繳罰還的詐騙的信件哦"},{"start":14979.304,"end":14997.852,"text":"請問訴發部這邊有沒有收到監理站的這個結果上網一查一大堆人被騙11月10號就是11月一堆監理站各種方面而且都是那種剛收到交通罰單沒多久就收到這個繳費的詐騙的簡訊有沒有監理站或交通的單位有沒有跟你們通報"},{"start":14998.852,"end":14999.453,"text":"我們目前沒有收到通報吧"},{"start":15024.491,"end":15039.2,"text":"目前沒有嘛對不對這個消息已經都在網路上了民眾都非常的恐慌可不可以麻煩一樣多久以內一週好不好這個詐騙快一點瞭解一下有或沒有就好然後我們來看一下說我們能幫什麼忙"},{"start":15040.18,"end":15059.006,"text":"再來111的短碼破功啦我想各位應該也知道這個消息了當然我知道短碼是一個好的做法但是有沒有解決方案結果呢我們看短碼有問題gov.tw可能也有問題這個到底我們在防詐上面應該要如何做我是希望應該要"},{"start":15060.706,"end":15075.32,"text":"更多的落實你們有很多跨部會的預算更多的落實合作資安打詐這一題我就之後有機會再交流因為時間有限了資安人力短缺也麻煩注意一下剛剛的這個中加兵委員有提到以新續職"},{"start":15076.841,"end":15099.582,"text":"這個方向我們也是覺得是從阿宅的角度來看也是認同所以希望這個部分呢也予以去了解那資安的人力的培育也要增加啦什麼11個啦30個啦150啦我覺得都是遠遠不夠其實你們預算是很充足的希望能夠補足資安人力增加流財的誘因最後我想請教部長一件事近期通查網"},{"start":15101.013,"end":15127.035,"text":"算是不小心提前下架了啦那雲端發票還有很多政府機關的數位的平台大家都有點擔心可能會有不被信任的問題所以我想訴發部應該要帶頭被信任而不是帶頭被不信任啦所以我想請教部長請教部長這個題很認真知通系統的外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核"},{"start":15128.227,"end":15129.568,"text":"連查核都是外包啊"},{"start":15157.725,"end":15179.807,"text":"事任性查核抱歉我在問的是事任性查核抱歉部長我跟你溝通一下這是你們資通安全管理法的施行細則資通安全管理法裡面就算你們內部請資安院來做或者你們內部來做都要有公務人員的事任性查核不能有不適任的人來做我們的資通系統這是第一點"},{"start":15180.367,"end":15205.804,"text":"第二點連外包廠商都應該要有私人性的查核這是你們的資通安全管理法我們目前認為而且資通系統的定義對不起講得非常清楚這是資通安全法第三條第一項用於資料的收集控制傳輸儲存流通刪除資訊或對資訊進行其他處理使用或分享系統等於幾乎所有的資訊系統在外包上都應該要做私人性查核請問部長"},{"start":15206.964,"end":15231.072,"text":"有沒有做啊那個我的了解是對所謂機敏系統要做查核各位委員差不多好抱歉所以這個是你們的法條要修就去修這不是機敏系統喔所以請帶頭守法落實適任性的查核關於這一點我希望內部也做個討論然後呢我們雙方來交流好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":15233.493,"end":15235.314,"text":"好,謝謝給盧君委員、謝謝部長跟各位這個首長接下來我們請侯孟楷委員發言來,麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來,黃部長請"},{"start":15263.571,"end":15286.231,"text":"來黃部長道高一尺磨真的可以高一丈嗎我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能那但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台"},{"start":15290.334,"end":15297.944,"text":"去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙"},{"start":15301.366,"end":15324.812,"text":"那時候把111當成是救世主一樣就是說這一個簡訊代碼一出來之後政府之間的詐騙不會有了而且有三關卡來組詐騙然後還講是說趕快供股行庫都加入協調防詐結果不到一年時間欸真的不到一年欸從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來"},{"start":15328.348,"end":15345.635,"text":"新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊"},{"start":15347.168,"end":15375.036,"text":"就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費"},{"start":15376.843,"end":15405.488,"text":"收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解"},{"start":15405.828,"end":15435.094,"text":"來"},{"start":15435.134,"end":15447.437,"text":"我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少"},{"start":15448.308,"end":15449.288,"text":"所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?"},{"start":15476.139,"end":15493.05,"text":"二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打債儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長"},{"start":15497.625,"end":15524.177,"text":"尤其是去年跟今年的一個數字相比他真的是完全大幅提升甚至那個數字可以差到三倍四倍統計的方式不同但不管怎麼樣那就代表是什麼代表兩個部分一個就是過去的統計是埋在沙子裡面把頭埋在沙子裡面我假裝沒有這個數字我就以為沒有這個詐騙但現在的數字如果說你要說統計的數字不同的話那代表就是現在比較還原真實的狀況"},{"start":15526.178,"end":15538.161,"text":"以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙"},{"start":15541.922,"end":15559.329,"text":"報告委員,我們負責防詐這一部分,主要是針對所謂的廣告平台商的這些詐騙從廣告平台商的詐騙我們開始進行一些機制包括實名制以後,我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上"},{"start":15561.43,"end":15586.851,"text":"因為詐騙是有階段性的比如說養套殺所以如果你在前端讓詐騙警察不要接觸到詐騙訊息被養的就會減少那這個效果應該在未來幾個月會出現也就是說我們認為現在民眾接觸到詐騙因為我們在前端做防詐的工作確實有減少而且從數字上我們看到減少但是這個整個金額的數目目前看到統計是後面是可能是三個月或甚至六個月前"},{"start":15586.971,"end":15613.625,"text":"部長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到最後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛"},{"start":15614.685,"end":15643.065,"text":"對不對對所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月好所以之前我也一直很關心喔時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施"},{"start":15643.345,"end":15662.187,"text":"一月底以前臉書、IG、TRADE他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社"},{"start":15662.788,"end":15682.609,"text":"他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外"},{"start":15684.072,"end":15705.721,"text":"當然就是說他若是實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞"},{"start":15707.133,"end":15733.389,"text":"如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告"},{"start":15733.929,"end":15757.178,"text":"有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長"},{"start":15757.898,"end":15776.328,"text":"但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理"},{"start":15778.189,"end":15778.209,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":15801.3,"end":15813.997,"text":"對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意"},{"start":15815.899,"end":15833.241,"text":"麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝侯孟楷委員謝謝部長接下來請吳春成委員發言"},{"start":15846.34,"end":15848.141,"text":"有請黃部長我今天要來謝謝你因為壯世代政策與產業發展促進法在本週一已經出了委員會是在立法上跨出一大步"},{"start":15869.969,"end":15890.266,"text":"那在這裡這個訴發部為壯士代開先鋒做了一個很好的示範在兩週前我們的資訊月有做了一個壯士代董資樂園用一種創新的方式讓過去都叫做"},{"start":15891.3,"end":15893.081,"text":"希望這個成功的經驗可以作為未來我們的參考"},{"start":15914.511,"end":15942.517,"text":"那為什麼講這個壯世代董事樂園用創新模式在這裡其實在各方面包括從立法院多數的委員都對這個議題的認知肯定還有在民間大量的這個高齡解放運動支持的壯世代也風起雲湧包括我們的院長左奎在兩個禮拜之前行政院會之後"},{"start":15943.337,"end":15964.669,"text":"所發的新聞稿也是肯定要讓壯士來持續貢獻社會所以這個速發部走在這一個潮流打先鋒因為這個禮拜一這個在審議的過程當中還是遇到了現在執政黨的立委很多的"},{"start":15965.829,"end":15986.123,"text":"很多的阻擾說不懂這個壯時代是什麼壯時代的定義是什麼反正提了很多後來我覺得用CHAPTER GTP去問一下去問一下我覺得這個很好我覺得是不是數位發展部可以開發一下問證諮詢的立法問證諮詢提升我們的問證品質"},{"start":15990.146,"end":16008.323,"text":"大家問的問題實在是太可笑了幼稚般的我念一下CHEP GDP你只要問一下壯世代到底想要做什麼他就定義非常清楚他說壯世代是指55歲到臥床前這個概念直接挑戰了傳統對年齡的看法尤其對退休以後的階段"},{"start":16009.764,"end":16039.082,"text":"非常的重要他提倡的不再是60歲市委人生的終點而是另外一個充滿可能的新起點所以醫療進步人類說明延長這個年齡層依然有體力智慧和資源去追求目標探索興趣甚至重新投入事業貢獻社會創世代不僅是一個詞語更是一種價值觀的倡導他幫助我們重新看待年齡生命力和社會的角色為每個人提供積極的框架創世代核心精神第一個是延續活躍的生活第二個是健康與自主"},{"start":16039.923,"end":16053.784,"text":"這個其實他很多啦他會創造回應我們的社會例如勞動力不足、輸入力下降的問題讓中資在發揮他們的潛力對整個社會這種雙贏的局面等等這種AI的智慧喔"},{"start":16054.795,"end":16056.175,"text":"來開發一下 這個可以節省我們國會 我們國家很多 不然大家花太多的時間老是討論問題 問政品質不高"},{"start":16078.663,"end":16085.732,"text":"好所以呢我還是回到這裡就這一次的諮詢業因為用了壯士代的董茲樂園有規劃了展場跟AI有關那這一個跟這一個"},{"start":16094.784,"end":16117.862,"text":"是不是因為他可以提供裝飾在第三人生不僅是促進中年轉職的機會或者促進中生學習第三人生大學的推動或者是整個多元化的共同都有很多很肯定的幫助所以是不是可以請求這個訴發部是不是可以一個月之內就以上的四個面向能夠提出報告"},{"start":16119.804,"end":16120.184,"text":"好的,謝謝部長"},{"start":16146.311,"end":16149.275,"text":"好謝謝吳孫生委員謝謝部長那我們接下來請葉元之委員發言麻煩請部長謝謝好請部長"},{"start":16168.365,"end":16187.334,"text":"市長先請教一下之前速發布大力宣傳的台灣雲市集所謂的點線面平台現在還存在嗎我們那個雲市集主要是給中小企業我知道我現在是問的點線面平台現在還存在嗎還存在效果怎麼樣現在"},{"start":16190.205,"end":16206.825,"text":"效果有多少店家加入6萬8千家6萬8千家那這樣算6萬8千家有加入這個外送平台所以民眾可以透過LINE綁定然後去跟這些6萬8千家訂餐是嗎"},{"start":16210.083,"end":16235.064,"text":"我知道我們上架的這個支付的系統然後另外8家的中小企業去用不是啦我在問點線面平台你直接回應我好不好因為那時候你們宣傳的是說如果參加這個台灣雲市集然後一般的民眾如果叫外送的話可以用來綁定嘛不用排隊嘛而且經濟部還有補助嘛所以有多少家餐廳加入這個外送平台服務"},{"start":16235.865,"end":16238.85,"text":"就是6萬8千6萬8那你覺得多還是少你覺得多還是少這有達到你們預期的目標嗎"},{"start":16247.353,"end":16276.036,"text":"欸部長為什麼都不回答這是旁邊第三個人跟第二個人解釋然後你就躲在旁邊我現在是在質詢部長還是在質詢部長為什麼問這東西因為這個東西是你們數位發布當時一直在宣傳的嘛也被社會廣泛討論啊結果你對於這個業務完全一竅不通還要叫別人來提醒你然後提醒你的那個人自己也不清楚還要叫第三個人來提醒那當初你宣傳這個點線平台在宣傳假的喔"},{"start":16276.516,"end":16302.446,"text":"你有在追蹤這個後續的效果嗎那個雲世紀這個project我care是上面上層這個你們當時宣傳的就是這個點線面平台嗎社會大眾關心的是你們這個東西當初講了後續嘛沒關係啦你之後再補資料給我現在感覺是好像你完全沒有掌握狀況所以當時講了放一把火就沒事了還叫經濟部補助一堆錢然後有沒有效果你也現在搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":16303.266,"end":16305.969,"text":"那個時候因為我們都知道隔幾天周杰倫演唱會就要開始了嘛"},{"start":16318.223,"end":16333.882,"text":"周杰倫演唱會黃牛票非常嚴重當時你們前部長唐鳳部長說只要數位簽章把過關的話有通過的話可以解決黃牛票的問題我想請教一下現在這個部分進度到哪裡了"},{"start":16335.763,"end":16352.433,"text":"市民制不是問題現在是說執行單位要不要用市民制沒有他不是這樣講的喔他的講法是說因為現在黃牛票很多人會用機器人掃票所以如果電子簽章法有過的話到時候這些機器人掃票他也必須要提供電子簽章所以會加強他就會"},{"start":16353.493,"end":16358.516,"text":"拜託委員這個都可以執行現在問題是在說執行單位在收票就是你驗票要進來驗票然後增加的成本我現在講的是機器人"},{"start":16375.124,"end":16391.419,"text":"拜託不要一直岔開話題唐鳳講的就是機器人掃票他講的是說如果你機器人掃票的話你如果不需要提供這些姓名沒有電子簽帳的話那他就可以隨便提供很多個資就可以去買了但是如果說有電子簽帳的話就會增加難度這是唐鳳講的"},{"start":16393.02,"end":16420.198,"text":"對,所以跟什麼你要不要進去那個無關我現在講的是第一階段機器人掃票的部分你不要一直扭曲我的問題好不好我的問題那麼簡單請問一下電子簽贓法如果現在已經通過了嘛那有一年的日落條款嘛那請教一下等可以做到唐鳳的那樣杜絕黃牛票要到什麼時候要到什麼時候但是那個就是賣票的單位不願意做不是對,是這樣子就是確實這樣子所以現在立刻可以是不是現在立刻可以"},{"start":16420.898,"end":16434.728,"text":"現在那個技術現在只要現在只要你的意思是說現在只要賣票單位願意接受的話立刻可以做就可以執行不那跟電子簽商數位簽商法無關跟數位簽商法無關是這個意思很多技術不電子簽商可以是其中一個技術其中一個那當時唐鳳為什麼要這樣瞎掰我講的是他講的話欸"},{"start":16437.31,"end":16462.329,"text":"是他講說到時候數位簽證法過關的話黃牛票問題也可以通過這種方式解決而且他已經跟文化部在討論這他講的結果你現在打臉他你說跟那個沒關阿其實有很多技術可以解決只要賣票單位可以接受話都給你們講就好了阿主要是看售票單位那他為什麼這樣講嗎技術是在我講的是唐鳳講的話唐鳳講的話你就不認了啦反正錢鈔現在都跟你們無關第三個問題"},{"start":16465.631,"end":16493.995,"text":"你們現在到底跟六大平台的關係怎麼樣現在就是有密切的密切合作那之前為什麼會出現很多財經的網紅他們被下架為什麼那個上次我已經解釋過那個是內部是Facebook的Meta內部作業的問題所以跟我們數話部無關那有白名單這種事情嗎白名單也不是我們提供的那誰提供的這個不清楚不清楚對但是不是我們數話部提供的"},{"start":16494.488,"end":16523.802,"text":"那你們數位發展部平常跟他們都怎麼溝通我們都是叫他下架對我們如果看到假廣告被我們掃描出來或是民眾報案我們就叫他下架那我們是叫他下架哪一些廣告但是那個上次那個事件是內部他們那個Meta內部在作業的我的了解是他們作業內部作業的錯誤造成這些下架但是這個跟數位發展部我們沒有發任何文沒有發任何訊息給他們要求他們做在這個事情上做任何事情這個已經在媒體上沒有用"},{"start":16524.082,"end":16542.367,"text":"有公布對好謝謝好謝謝葉院司委員謝謝部長那我們接下來請黃國昌委員發言呃謝謝主席麻煩有請部長來請部長好好委員好"},{"start":16552,"end":16557.774,"text":"部長好 延續上一次的主題你們數位部也好 數發部也好"},{"start":16558.837,"end":16583.359,"text":"推了很多計畫然後那個計畫的內容我上次問你兩年砸了3億要數位婦人推動銀髮世代社會連結計畫那到底具體的成效是什麼我請你們會後給我資料你們會後給我的資料不好意思部長我講的比較直接一點一堆官樣文章一堆官樣文章"},{"start":16584.844,"end":16610.23,"text":"我們以前啊在大學的時候我相信部長經驗也很豐富啊大家審過非常多的計畫什麼是官樣文章啊什麼是有具體的成效其實我們大家都讀得出來內行人不要講外行話但讓我生氣的是什麼讓我生氣的事情是我諮詢完以後結果你們數位部很厲害啊很厲害啊"},{"start":16611.387,"end":16626.737,"text":"處理的方式這個計畫點擊率慘不能讀乾脆把它遮掩掉這個是誰下的決定啊是部長下令的嗎不好意思一個問題一個問題第一個誰下令把它拿掉的是我們的內部人員在你們內部人員權力這麼大喔那當然是有跟我報告所以你同意是嗎"},{"start":16640.99,"end":16669.491,"text":"我同意是因為那個這個因為我們有4000多個資訊那當然就是我們8有超過8萬人次來來來4000多個資訊有超過8萬次8萬人次好8萬人次吧對對平均每一個資訊多少人次數學沒有那麼難啊4000多個資訊有8萬人次但是這個報告委員這個沒辦法平均因為有些訊息很多人想看那有些人看的人就比較沒有啦不要講空的啦"},{"start":16671.462,"end":16689.532,"text":"我上次這個點擊率慘不能賭嘛啊你們處理問題的方式是什麼不是解決問題啊是把發現問題的線索全部都抹掉啊點擊人數直接拿掉掩耳盜鈴啊你們後來說有4000多個頁面4000多個資訊那總點擊率是8萬多嘛那我就問你嘛一個頁面一個資訊的點擊率是多少"},{"start":16700.069,"end":16727.187,"text":"平均是多少就20次嘛這個數學有這麼困難嗎不是這個報告委員這個因為4000多個頁面有的可能會有破萬的點擊有的可能只有幾個沒有錯那沒有關係啊哪一個點擊率好哪一個點擊率不好老老實實的呈現出來給大家看有什麼問題啊奇怪耶民進黨政府從2016年以來講的口號是什麼"},{"start":16728.047,"end":16752.156,"text":"是開放政府欸是公開透明欸這個符合開放政府的理念嗎這個符合公開透明的理念嗎還是點擊率不好慘不能賭最快的方式是什麼直接點擊率把它刪掉讓大家不要看我們有一個總體點擊率報告委員這個上次看到這個number報告我剛講8萬人支持我們以為我們是10月20幾號才上去沒有關係啊"},{"start":16753.456,"end":16767.515,"text":"那你就把它放上去嘛半年以後我們再看一次啊一年以後再看一次啊你書發布可以開記者會可以發新聞稿做各式各樣的澄清嘛"},{"start":16768.816,"end":16793.774,"text":"所以我們上去的時間比較短所以這個數字可能比較難看我們相信半年以後一年以後這個數字一定會大幅提升能夠好好的擴大我們的引法族跟社會的連結各項活動各項計畫沉積斐然請社會大眾拭目以待一個有信心的政府"},{"start":16794.534,"end":16811.052,"text":"一個號稱要公開透明的政府不是應該這樣做嗎?部長我有沒有說錯?那個謝謝委員的指導那我想這個其實很簡單那如果委員認為這個數字很重要我們就再把它放回去好把它放回去齁我們過一段時間繼續再來檢驗我老實跟你講啦為什麼我覺得這個計畫非常的荒謬"},{"start":16818.148,"end":16840.353,"text":"點進去喔還不一定會真的去參加那個活動真的要計算KPI是什麼真的要計算KPI是說我投了這幾億下去做了這些事情我實際產出的output是什麼所以我實際產出的output我老實講也不是上去看點擊幾次而是實際到那個地方參與那個活動的人因為這個"},{"start":16841.946,"end":16859.859,"text":"而增加了多少這個才是實際的Major的方式嘛但問題是什麼但問題是說有點幾並不代表什麼並不代表有趣但是什麼如果連點都不點的話代表他的效益我可以很確定的講是ZERO"},{"start":16860.854,"end":16887.301,"text":"是零嘛你們該做的事情不是直接把點擊的次數抹掉你們該做的事情是除了點擊的次數以外到那個空間到那個地點參與那個活動的你們進一步去調查請問你來參加這個活動獲得資訊的管道是什麼你才有辦法去major你這個計畫實際產生的效用跟output是什麼嘛"},{"start":16888.337,"end":16907.375,"text":"這個是一個非常簡單的道理我沒有辦法理解啦數位部為什麼沒有辦法理解這麼簡單的道理但是我上次是善意跟部長講請你回去了解這些計畫因為如果實際上面執行的成果是這個樣子你會很難說服很多的委員"},{"start":16908.476,"end":16936.334,"text":"在明年繼續支持這個計畫相同的狀況一樣我代部長看我上次問說次世代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬到底在做什麼因為我為什麼會有這個困惑因為這個困惑是連審查委員都說與既有的計畫高度重疊這不是我講的是審查委員講的"},{"start":16937.847,"end":16965.12,"text":"然後呢你們給我的書面回覆我不知道部長有沒有看你說啊這裡面有什麼有智慧教育也有智慧醫療但人家在說的是什麼你的智慧教育智慧醫療跟教育部的校園五級示範教室跟學習載具計畫到底有什麼不同跟衛福部導入五級級智慧科技提升醫療與健康照護有什麼不同"},{"start":16966.098,"end":16988.784,"text":"因為這些計畫書我全部都拜讀過了我拜讀完了以後不好意思我跟部長講我陷入了極度的迷惘到底有什麼不一樣不同的部會用計畫當名目找一些fancy的詞幾億幾億這樣的話我們的政府很有錢那個主席已經站起來我拜託部長"},{"start":16989.881,"end":17006.908,"text":"我再給你們一次機會我再給你們一次機會這個計畫存在的意義跟目的到底是什麼跟其他部會的計畫到底有什麼不一樣你們第一次送來給我的書面回覆我看完了但我看完以後的心得就像我剛剛跟部長報告一樣"},{"start":17007.995,"end":17008.275,"text":"這個委員那個報告謝謝"},{"start":17033.961,"end":17038.425,"text":"好謝謝黃國昌委員謝謝部長我們接下來請林楚英委員發言謝謝主席主席有請黃部長好請部長"},{"start":17056.268,"end":17057.228,"text":"網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登"},{"start":17084.667,"end":17089.108,"text":"接下來有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地"},{"start":17105.363,"end":17126.825,"text":"目前都有申請那個就是所謂法律代表人都已經申請了但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta"},{"start":17127.526,"end":17153.069,"text":"他就是有一個所謂代表人但是他其實事實上他沒有分公司在這裡他也只接廣告業務但是比如說像LINE他其實是有分公司在這裡那麼他們遵循國內的法規就不一樣那麼接下來我們打造司法要針對廣告來做KYC的時候部長您知不知道其實廣告下廣告的方法不一樣有哪幾種方法你知道嗎"},{"start":17157.929,"end":17175.528,"text":"這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種"},{"start":17176.309,"end":17196.025,"text":"我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商"},{"start":17197.202,"end":17198.864,"text":"第三種我現在要講的第三種就是叫做自助投放"},{"start":17219.468,"end":17241.19,"text":"自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式它用勾選條件的方法這個方法它是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合"},{"start":17242.091,"end":17266.564,"text":"今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種"},{"start":17268.154,"end":17291.813,"text":"就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔"},{"start":17294.68,"end":17319.781,"text":"因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別的針對這個來點來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google聯播網站是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然"},{"start":17321.322,"end":17338.593,"text":"所以包括我講的第三屆自動自助投放的方式也可以這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛對不對"},{"start":17344.617,"end":17359.892,"text":"那麼現在我們所點名的六大平台當中我必須說每一個人的狀況不一樣你們手上針對掌握他們在被詐騙廣告所投放的比率包括內容"},{"start":17362.628,"end":17382.841,"text":"有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告"},{"start":17387.003,"end":17414.771,"text":"誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合當然就是google跟line他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook"},{"start":17415.131,"end":17443.573,"text":"所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實"},{"start":17444.754,"end":17449.458,"text":"最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打炸所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化"},{"start":17471.135,"end":17474.977,"text":"如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的不乖的"},{"start":17487.503,"end":17506.45,"text":"不願意配合我們打炸四法的就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部、金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度完略因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種"},{"start":17507.97,"end":17521.638,"text":"那除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人"},{"start":17530.014,"end":17545.259,"text":"愿意配合的、優秀的、他有改善的那把它公布出來黑名單、白名單一併公布好嗎好那本席關心的有關於那個自主廣告所謂的自主投放式的怎麼樣來納管是不是也可以給我會後給我一個比較詳盡的說明好嗎謝謝好謝謝林處理委員謝謝部長接下來請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":17561.109,"end":17579.707,"text":"謝謝主席,有請黃部長好,請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動不勞花署、北分署的這個事件"},{"start":17582.153,"end":17601.743,"text":"我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣"},{"start":17603.283,"end":17626.616,"text":"一次走了81一位如果連輕生那一位他也是有提出申請哦偷偷是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個"},{"start":17630.016,"end":17645.591,"text":"這個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了"},{"start":17646.702,"end":17663.611,"text":"這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助"},{"start":17667.139,"end":17679.023,"text":"議員提到霸凌這個事情但是我剛才強調就是這是在我們單位也不容許的事情所以我們現在已經啟動調查那當然就是說在10月11號調查結果出來我馬上立刻做處置"},{"start":17679.923,"end":17681.424,"text":"關於資訊、薪資、人員調動的比例,我們內部是有自己的統計,但是其他部會要提供數位化的資訊嗎?"},{"start":17699.878,"end":17719.29,"text":"沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了,等一下我們就好好討論啦。我是說,請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總署跟這個權修部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。"},{"start":17719.73,"end":17747.941,"text":"我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是堅持這兩個單位的系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果予以協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是"},{"start":17749.221,"end":17749.401,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":17769.634,"end":17793.461,"text":"這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛對不對請教部長可以嘛好那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角還是要照顧家庭或者是緩鄉才導致自己單位的能力一直流失那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛就沒辦法嘛對不對如果這個單位的階層"},{"start":17796.28,"end":17796.62,"text":"稍微講到11月21日"},{"start":17818.826,"end":17845.421,"text":"我本來不想問你說,我就跟你說一個比較有的,對嗎?資安署內部有情緒管控的問題的長官存在。貼文講得這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群資安署的受破員工借來澄清信啦齁。繼續寫類嘛。然後控制資安署的管理不當,直接點名資安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。"},{"start":17849.461,"end":17867.348,"text":"這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的啦照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新大陸大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位嘛但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有165"},{"start":17868.268,"end":17883.257,"text":"一二零是一四六一一三零剩下一二九或許一四六扣一二九少了十七個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是四十二人平調七人降調十四人辭職二十一人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題"},{"start":17884.318,"end":17890.342,"text":"本署人員調職原因多數外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量而調離限職,致本署流動率偏高。另又因"},{"start":17910.473,"end":17926.191,"text":"這一個資産高階人才藍蜜且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過彼氏面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及朋友人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這個限制"},{"start":17928.484,"end":17949.92,"text":"至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?"},{"start":17955.117,"end":17978.532,"text":"不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文是安理署答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的"},{"start":17982.84,"end":18004.291,"text":"誰做成決議做這樣的公文書答覆到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啦你答覆我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定"},{"start":18008.064,"end":18015.868,"text":"報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容"},{"start":18032.415,"end":18049.974,"text":"議員８"},{"start":18050.873,"end":18063.328,"text":"對 責任使的回覆為什麼我給 我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼要交代治安署的署長來做這樣的關槍關室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你講兩天用招40幾個"},{"start":18067.193,"end":18069.634,"text":"立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法"},{"start":18093.803,"end":18118.38,"text":"有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這又是替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?"},{"start":18121.679,"end":18124.161,"text":"你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢"},{"start":18137.148,"end":18155.418,"text":"那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嘛部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛"},{"start":18165.199,"end":18166.56,"text":"所以就叫做外界挖角吧"},{"start":18190.492,"end":18213.013,"text":"但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說"},{"start":18214.594,"end":18237.97,"text":"你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣怎樣被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這一張我這一張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的"},{"start":18238.53,"end":18240.691,"text":"接下來請賴世保委員發言賴世保,賴世保委員不在"},{"start":18256.08,"end":18264.286,"text":"羅廷偉委員不在鄭正前委員不在蘇清泉委員不在高金素梅委員不在王美惠委員不在張其凱委員不在羅美玲委員不在"},{"start":18277.537,"end":18285.05,"text":"登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢我們做以下決議報告及詢答完畢委員羅美玲所提書面諮詢列入記錄並開發公報"},{"start":18287.622,"end":18307.25,"text":"第三委員在質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部競速以書面答覆第四114年度數位發展部單位預算令則其進行處理委員預算提案在12月20號星期五中午12點前截止收件本次會議到此結束現在散會"}]}},{"id":"157836","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157836","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b91599c15dc66a16e45dd5fe0ad21242f04b39567fafe61e455f0fb71571eecb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"15:41:47 - 15:48:26","影片長度":"00:06:39","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T15:41:47+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:48:26+08:00","duration":399,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.2878437500000004,"end":6.207218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.695968750000002,"end":16.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.51346875,"end":18.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.605968750000002,"end":20.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.51721875,"end":22.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":26.457218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.997218750000002,"end":27.520343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.047843750000002,"end":62.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.524093750000006,"end":57.962843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.53596875,"end":74.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.05409375,"end":68.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.72846875,"end":100.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.71159375,"end":100.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.55534375,"end":225.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.27846875,"end":298.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.88721875000005,"end":316.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.94784375,"end":326.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.34409375,"end":319.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.14909375,"end":324.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.80284375,"end":336.36659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.00096875,"end":327.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.06346875,"end":332.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.91096875,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.88096875,"end":338.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.62346875000003,"end":356.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.00096875,"end":354.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.75596875,"end":372.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.34846875000005,"end":374.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.63909375000003,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.28846875000005,"end":397.01534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.608,"end":4.609,"text":"就是行政部門該被監督、質詢的"},{"start":27.082,"end":49.105,"text":"好來我們開始繼續今天我剛剛看到從早到晚我看到今天非常多人來質詢有關救安基金的問題大概80%以上都會提到這個部分因為我時間非常的有限我也可遵時間的一個規定那我其實就給大家一個建議好了就是因為每個人都認為你的救安基金都已經批評它是你們勞動部的小金庫所以我個人認為說你不要等外界去發掘了"},{"start":50.166,"end":52.648,"text":"跟柯文報告上個禮拜在媒體曝光前我就已經指示我們必須檢討這件事情"},{"start":68.683,"end":91.423,"text":"而且過程中我們其實就已經發現了一些問題部分的問題就已經發現了主動公告就好不用輪到這個部分每個人都來教你要教條細節還有就是我剛剛會特別提到為什麼就業安定基金的總支出大於總輸入你不用現在回答我因為我時間有限還有包括被濫用要提供細節還有最重要的是我也看到了你六大支出項目當中112年的外籍勞工管理的計劃是過去的1.7倍"},{"start":96.327,"end":96.367,"text":"主席﹗"},{"start":113.217,"end":132.483,"text":"﹗"},{"start":132.483,"end":158.348,"text":"他很多的就業的這個部分當中裡面他的繳交的費用當中40億就業安定金是在雇主端的在雇主端當中然後呢你看112年開始使用在外國人聘雇管理業務的支出的金額驟增這部分可能要有所交代我的想法其實是很簡單你過去非常的重視這個有關於這個勞工那個權益雇主的權益其實你要稍微看重一下"},{"start":159.128,"end":179.853,"text":"這個部分以就業安定基金來去說的話我個人覺得你看一年就是兩萬四千塊錢而且很多重度失能他們是弱勢族群你當然會告訴我說有很多低收入部分可以免繳但是呢這個條件其實是非常嚴苛免繳的人其實比數是非常非常的低的所以呢很多重症家庭喔"},{"start":180.593,"end":200.178,"text":"說實在的對他們來說就好像在繳交這個殘障稅或是失能稅一樣所以如果可以的話如果你能夠把它變成一個每個月十塊或是一個塊對這個重度失能的家庭來說真的是一筆非常大的安慰已經要照顧這麼多人了如果可以在這個地方"},{"start":200.618,"end":229.827,"text":"剪清他們的一個負擔的話我認為這個就是你可以回去好好的討論一下好不好我只提出建議因為我真的是時間有限最後會給你機會來做一個統一的一個回覆第二個就是我剛剛所提到的對於雇主的權益的保障因為你會知道所有這個雇主裡面你所收的這些的錢當中其實有一大部分來自於這個雇主那很多時候雇主跟這個逃跑的移工移工當然是需要的權益比較保住可是雇主的權益要被保障"},{"start":230.327,"end":246.761,"text":"如果這個部分當中包括很多時候這個我們的雇主跟這個移工或跟任何人在打官司的時候說實在的雇主也要付出的費用啊也要付出的這個費用啊所以說呢我這而且你你會看得出來他們要付出這些費用所以對於他們來說的話給予他們一些權利上面的一個保障我覺得這也是勞動部本身應該也是要來做一個考量的所以呢這個部分裡面我還是強調啊你看"},{"start":258.09,"end":276.757,"text":"根據你們統計你們非常云以為豪的入境一站式的這個這個層面的效益你看入境授訊4個月轉換僱主的比例是高達6%這在民間機構來說這是非常高的一個比例而且很多僱主還特別提到說因為有這個一站式他想換僱主就可以換僱主"},{"start":277.857,"end":283.858,"text":"這裡面都是呈現我們過去來,因為我只有4分鐘,我也不想讓我們的召委再繼續坐下去,你看他那個臉還好是醫生,所以知道怎麼保養了,否則已經快到4點了,還有很多人了。我提出這些方法,我給你最後時間請,洪部長就針對我剛剛所提問,你可以回應的,特別有關於失能照顧者這個層面,可以回應的是不是可以立刻做一些回答?"},{"start":299.482,"end":327.22,"text":"柯委員其實對於免繳救安定基金的範圍要不要再擴大因為你就像你也知道過去弱勢跟低收中低收其實都在免繳的範圍裡面但要不要擴大我覺得這件事情當然是可以討論的事情那至於要放到多大這部分真的我們就要跟丘丹未來做一些評估當然我只願意你要去做一個考量因為就我理解來說這個照顧重度施政的這些家屬來說是真的非常的辛苦而且他們已經交出非常多了我們當然來願意來考量好不好"},{"start":327.56,"end":348.796,"text":"第一個是跟剛才講到一戰事的部分怎麼樣減輕僱主的負擔這部分我覺得我們也會來做相關的研議目前對所以不能只是照顧這一篇你不能夠做一個但是我想要強調的事情是當時為什麼會有一戰事的原因是因為當時在疫情期間發現移工進來中間有好幾個不同的階段都出了問題"},{"start":349.497,"end":349.797,"text":"我當然願意顧及到僱主的"},{"start":374.81,"end":375.51,"text":"時間的關係給你最大的一個祝福啦"}]}},{"id":"157835","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157835","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360c6d232fc7054eed4e45dd5fe0ad21242f04b39567fafe61e3c1d51a46f3598f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"15:29:16 - 15:41:39","影片長度":"00:12:23","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T15:29:16+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:41:39+08:00","duration":743,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.24909375,"end":10.476593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.712843750000001,"end":11.117843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.04096875,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.36159375,"end":18.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.239093750000002,"end":41.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.88909375,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.80784375,"end":54.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.75659375,"end":55.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.87034375,"end":56.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.899718750000005,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.55346875,"end":62.789093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.85659375,"end":88.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.62034375,"end":91.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.13471875,"end":95.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.00784375,"end":94.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.34096875,"end":105.73596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.00596875000001,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.84409375000001,"end":117.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.29096875,"end":122.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.91471875,"end":152.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.77909375000002,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.61721875,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":178.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.26034375,"end":194.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.34221875,"end":203.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.76284375,"end":214.81596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.42346875,"end":219.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.84034375000002,"end":230.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.67846875,"end":243.89159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.39784375000002,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.86159375000003,"end":248.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.80221875,"end":252.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.08846875,"end":254.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.80971875000003,"end":260.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.57659375000003,"end":263.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.95596875,"end":276.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.30409375,"end":278.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.60346875,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.95721875000004,"end":286.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.50096875,"end":299.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.22034375000004,"end":306.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.17284375,"end":307.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.05034375,"end":314.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.63159375000004,"end":316.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.36971875,"end":323.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.11534375,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.59096875,"end":336.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.72096875,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.65284375000005,"end":341.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.03659375,"end":349.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":351.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.43159375000005,"end":364.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.27784375000005,"end":400.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.57159375000003,"end":433.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.87034375,"end":442.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.49346875000003,"end":448.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.07471875000005,"end":470.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.43846875,"end":475.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.51346875,"end":504.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.98159375000006,"end":523.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.55659375,"end":540.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.9128437500001,"end":541.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.03096875,"end":540.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.0772187499999,"end":570.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.12909375,"end":560.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.24721875,"end":560.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.1865937499999,"end":573.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.2747187500001,"end":583.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.48409375,"end":585.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.0365937500001,"end":600.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.18596875,"end":602.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.14346875,"end":603.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.00409375,"end":611.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.6484687500001,"end":615.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.90096875,"end":621.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.41909375,"end":622.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.09409375,"end":630.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":631.10534375,"end":632.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.7422187500001,"end":636.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.58534375,"end":639.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.6609687499999,"end":642.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.20909375,"end":647.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.52971875,"end":642.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":647.57534375,"end":650.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.41034375,"end":655.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.70909375,"end":675.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.55409375,"end":676.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.52846875,"end":694.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.6397187500002,"end":695.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.4665937500001,"end":697.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.2890937500001,"end":698.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.1453437499999,"end":724.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.8840937500001,"end":740.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.8603437500001,"end":741.5522187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.311,"end":9.215,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩請紅部長"},{"start":17.639,"end":41.452,"text":"謝謝陳委員部長好記得您剛您的這個新職務發布的時候有馬上要大家不要恭喜你那這個當然跟一般正常的狀況是很奇怪啦因為答應擔任部長代表說您可以施展您的抱負那為勞工來服務這應該是值得恭喜的事那可不可以請您解釋一下為什麼要大家不要恭喜呢"},{"start":43.919,"end":62.501,"text":"我想大家都知道現在勞動部不管是內部或外部都處於很艱困的狀況而且我們會被高度的檢視那尤其是這個職務的變動又涉及到一起悲劇所以我當然是我當然認為其實我這個職務的就任其實是不用恭喜我我不覺得這是喜事"},{"start":62.881,"end":86.703,"text":"好我想這個我們都也充分理解啦那勞動部長這個職務因為在目前之所以會變成不要恭喜的職務那當然也因為在霸凌案發生在勞動部那你們剛好又是主管機關才會這麼諷刺因為畢竟也是引起軒然大波那麼這個霸凌防止的業務要請教一下是由這個勞動部的哪一個機關來負責"},{"start":89.976,"end":117.426,"text":"就目前是職安署因為他是在職安法裡面是不法侵害的部分那我要特別提醒就是這一類霸凌的部分在職安法裡面是叫做精神不法侵害那要再請教說這項精神不法侵害的預防有沒有出現在職安署處務歸程的文字裡面不知道部長有沒有留意到"},{"start":118.625,"end":138.773,"text":"謝謝委員提醒我們是職安健康所以確實沒有那個字眼好那既然沒有出現因為我們確實也檢視了那我只有看到就是職業衛生健康組裡面有職場勞工身心健康保護與健康促進之規劃推動及督導這項業務其實他是跟"},{"start":143.976,"end":160.946,"text":"職業壓力、心理健康還有過勞預防是有關的那我想請教職安署這個又是哪一個單位在負責呢?各位報告確實我們現在把這個霸凌或是不法侵害放在我們這個第7項就是廣義的身心健康促進來做處置的"},{"start":163.683,"end":190.993,"text":"所以你們職業衛生健康組來負責這個業務好那為什麼勞工遇到這個不法侵害然後被勞檢通過的比例那麼低我們看一下這個簡報我們從這個兩個面向來看一下例如說去年去年度這個雇主或事業單位被勞檢3000多的案次有裁罰的"},{"start":192.073,"end":220.64,"text":"﹚陳瑩﹚"},{"start":220.88,"end":243.274,"text":"部長您知道嗎這些事業單位被裁罰的原因他並不是說真的有這個霸凌的事實不是而是說這些事業單位他們並沒有去制定執行職務遇到精神不法侵害的預防計劃所以才被罰"},{"start":244.415,"end":260.312,"text":"那也才可以罰他所以你們的指引反而去告訴了這些被霸凌者各案的認定依照這個職安法施行細則第11條規定不法之侵害"},{"start":261.618,"end":285.507,"text":"例如身體的傷害跟蹤還有騷擾性侵以及像這些由各該管主管機關或者司法機關依規定調查或者是認定那我們講白了啦這個就是說事情發生了你們就是要被害者自己去告然後推給這個其他機關去調查跟認定"},{"start":286.607,"end":305.545,"text":"那你們能做的就只是去罰那些沒有訂定預防計劃的這個3萬元而已所以你們的指引就變成可以把責任推得這麼乾淨那這麼重要的一項霸凌的業務都沒有一個法令上負責的單位"},{"start":308.584,"end":322.884,"text":"推回來就好像又回到看起來又回到署長好自己要去決定嗎那同樣的道理啊我們來看一下這個外送平臺工作者的權益保障跟紙災預防也是由治安署來負責"},{"start":324.138,"end":348.68,"text":"那他也是一樣是沒有法令的負責單位也是一樣就是州署長說了算嘛那這兩個共通點他就是沒有處務歸程我們很認真的去點出這個問題那治安署是103年2月成立的那108年新增了一個職業衛生健康組"},{"start":350.221,"end":366.781,"text":"才改了出戶規程那先今有這麼多的新興的業務這邊你們可能要認真聽一下我們今天點出這個重要的觀念因為包括這些新興的這個業務包括霸凌性別歧視性別平等性騷擾還有歧視"},{"start":368.743,"end":385.627,"text":"跟這個勞基法還有外籍勞工等等的勞動議題的相關的這些業務都是需要職安署你們來檢查還有這個規範那個防治措施因此在這個我們今年我在10月16號的質詢特別是以這個勞動部的智庫勞研所來舉例"},{"start":391.148,"end":413.044,"text":"他們都已經是從這個勞工安全衛生研究所已經改成勞動及職業安全衛生研究所那就連這個職保法呢其實都已經落日了但是呢我們這個職保組卻依然存在然後只剩一個就是在"},{"start":414.745,"end":432.997,"text":"剩下一個大部分的人都不知道要去哪裡申請也不主動去給慰問金的這個發放慰問金的這個業務那組長加組員也將近30人這些人的薪資全部加起來都比發放出去的這個慰問金還要高出不知道幾百倍"},{"start":433.917,"end":448.329,"text":"好所以我不曉得說這個職保組現在的存在其實也沒有與時俱進的應該要消失啊好這個你們也應該要趕快檢討我都已經講了不知道第幾遍了我想是這樣重點是"},{"start":449.19,"end":474.578,"text":"你們要一併去盤點一下就是你們的新興業務還有部分業務是不是應該來交由這個財團法人職在預防重建中心去做你們可以往這個方向去思考然後把有限的這個人力依據業務的重要性重新去規劃修訂出入歸程那並且可以去更名可以更名為這個勞動"},{"start":477.84,"end":503.631,"text":"勞動及職業安全衛生署否則就是說就像這個霸凌跟這個平台外送員的問題一樣一旦需要專業的人員去處理的時候呢不僅發現說我們現在法令上根本就是趕不上而且你還要在自己的組織裡面去指派這個就是說去指派這個主政的單位然後也沒有辦法真正的解決問題"},{"start":504.992,"end":522.975,"text":"那這個絕對不是應該是署長要有的一個態度啦因為我搞不清楚這是一個什麼樣的心情是私心在作祟呢還是自卑又自大呢還是什麼樣的問題我不知道所以我不知道署長你自己怎麼認為怎麼去看這件事"},{"start":524.888,"end":543.648,"text":"謝謝委員指導那我們其實組織的一些出戶規則調整依照那個信用新的業務進來重新做修正這個非常謝謝委員的提點至於組織的修正跟組織的調整當然我會再跟部長做進步報告看看我們有沒有在做進步檢討的地方好所以那部長你怎麼看所以我可以跟人家我第一我很謝謝你的提醒"},{"start":544.449,"end":573.182,"text":"那因為接下來我們會來進行霸凌防制的法制化的工作這個法制化工作第一個是相關的作用法的法規要能夠把相關的機制給建立起來但同時就像你提醒的這裡面也牽涉到一些組織跟任務上面的問題那我們也應該要包括租屋規程上面怎麼把這事情一併的考慮進去讓我們的業務的工作跟組織上面的任務能夠相對應我覺得這部分我覺得很謝謝陳委員的提醒"},{"start":573.402,"end":602.317,"text":"對而且那個職保組因為我在今天我應該也講了兩三次了你們也可以好好考慮一下那個人力上比較有效的運用畢竟我們已經修法了嘛該落日的要落日啊是那最後我要提醒部長就是最近職災的問題是頗受到大家關注那部長在擔任立委的時候也有要求職災資料應該要公開那媒體都報導出來了真相是全民可以監督得到的嗎"},{"start":603.197,"end":627.986,"text":"而且法院的判決其實都都是公開的那為什麼就是有關於這個勞工生命安全的職災報告不能公開部長你覺得你你認為你你現在上任你什麼時候可以公開關於重大職災的這些相關的紀錄我認為該公開的就公開好那那這個事件是用社會的用透明化的程度讓社會能夠公檢視讓負責人該負責我覺得這部分我"},{"start":631.138,"end":654.911,"text":"我當然我還是持這個看法好謝謝部長那您這個看法需要周署長的同意嗎如果他不同意怎麼辦或者那個楊鳳英偉怎麼辦那個陳瑩我當然因為我現在勞動部長的工作當然會跟業務單位來做討論目標是這個但怎麼樣做然後能夠做的有效做的可行這當然是我現在我在這個工作上面的任務對"},{"start":655.731,"end":674.682,"text":"好我想這個這個呃看法我是跟你方向是跟你相同我也曾經要求過啦那在最後就是連這個濟南大學的李嘉彤前校長都有投書媒體指出說一定要有效利用職在資料來統計分析那找出臺灣職在發生的原因來對症下藥"},{"start":675.843,"end":698.403,"text":"執安署他不去思考如何對這件下料而是推給這個僱主跟法令那很多事情千錯萬錯職災的問題都是僱主跟法令的錯執安署都沒有錯所以除了這個勞檢跟重罰以外沒效就趕快去修法"},{"start":699.564,"end":720.783,"text":"那你們已經對外宣布要修職安法那我希望這一次的這個職安法的修法建議部長可以在內部審查的時候好好問一下署長這樣執法的修訂為什麼就可以降低職災可以這樣朝這個方向好好討論一下那也希望部長可以重視本席今日的質詢"},{"start":721.604,"end":721.624,"text":"好,謝謝"}]}},{"id":"157837","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157837","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083604fe29bdac8407a85e45dd5fe0ad212429bb48e04e7492f0edff46f77a105961a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"15:49:31 - 16:05:11","影片長度":"00:15:40","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T15:49:31+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T16:05:11+08:00","duration":940,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8.46846875,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.180343750000002,"end":17.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.72846875,"end":24.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24.83721875,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":27.97596875,"end":30.355343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":30.355343750000003,"end":31.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":30.996593750000002,"end":33.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":32.78534375,"end":33.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.96659375,"end":37.594718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.814093750000005,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.41284375,"end":41.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.20159375,"end":45.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.96471875,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":49.37346875,"end":54.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":54.41909375,"end":55.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":56.30909375,"end":56.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.642218750000005,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.97534375,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":69.30284375000001,"end":72.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.41596875,"end":77.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.93846875,"end":84.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.76034375,"end":91.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":91.91534375,"end":93.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":94.22721875,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":97.21409375,"end":97.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":98.37846875000001,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.52096875000001,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.69346875000001,"end":108.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":109.61721875,"end":112.04721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.36784375,"end":116.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":117.26159375,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.29534375,"end":117.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":117.44721875,"end":118.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":118.08846875,"end":118.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.94909375,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":118.96596875,"end":118.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.98284375,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":119.01659375000001,"end":119.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.15159375,"end":119.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.92784375000001,"end":141.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.59721875,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":135.68909375,"end":135.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":140.07659375,"end":144.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.08846875,"end":152.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":152.74971875,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":170.65409375000002,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":172.49346875,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.19784375,"end":177.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.65721875,"end":180.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":181.47096875,"end":182.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.53784375,"end":186.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":187.68096875,"end":190.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":190.54971875,"end":195.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":196.25346875000002,"end":196.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":197.18159375000002,"end":203.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":203.42534375000002,"end":206.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.71159375000002,"end":219.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.38471875000002,"end":227.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":228.36659375000002,"end":229.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":230.71221875,"end":236.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":236.68596875000003,"end":245.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":245.30909375000002,"end":262.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":261.59346875,"end":264.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":263.17971875,"end":263.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":264.32721875000004,"end":264.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":264.51284375,"end":269.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":269.94659375000003,"end":275.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":275.85284375000003,"end":277.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.42221875,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.75534375,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.77596875,"end":283.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":282.67034375000003,"end":286.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":284.30721875,"end":284.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":286.66971875,"end":292.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":292.86284375,"end":299.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":299.78159375,"end":300.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.55346875000004,"end":303.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.33784375000005,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":317.88846875,"end":324.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.02346875,"end":318.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.04034375000003,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.96846875,"end":319.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":325.54971875,"end":326.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":327.18659375000004,"end":328.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":329.02596875,"end":332.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":332.68784375,"end":334.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.11784375,"end":339.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.97784375000003,"end":340.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":341.41221875,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":370.58909375,"end":375.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":376.96784375000004,"end":384.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":381.05159375000005,"end":381.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":383.05971875,"end":383.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":384.96659375,"end":385.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":385.87784375,"end":390.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":391.12596875,"end":398.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":399.07409375000003,"end":401.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":402.02721875000003,"end":404.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":404.92971875,"end":405.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":406.51596875,"end":421.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.36784375,"end":409.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.40159375,"end":409.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.55346875000004,"end":409.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":422.15909375,"end":422.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":423.96471875000003,"end":426.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.57596875,"end":429.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":430.03971875,"end":433.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":435.57471875000005,"end":439.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":442.72971875,"end":445.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":446.98221875,"end":458.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.04784375,"end":467.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":467.67096875000004,"end":467.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.53159375,"end":475.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.08346875,"end":476.04096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.73721875,"end":476.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.04096875000005,"end":476.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":476.05784375,"end":476.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.07471875000005,"end":481.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.55909375000005,"end":487.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":485.22096875000005,"end":485.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":487.19534375,"end":493.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":493.43909375000004,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":493.96221875000003,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":495.61596875000004,"end":507.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":508.27221875000004,"end":509.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":509.03159375,"end":509.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":510.68534375,"end":516.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":516.38909375,"end":519.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":519.62909375,"end":520.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":520.15221875,"end":520.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":520.20284375,"end":520.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":520.3715937500001,"end":520.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":520.42221875,"end":520.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":520.47284375,"end":520.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":520.99596875,"end":521.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":521.0803437500001,"end":521.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":521.3672187500001,"end":521.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":521.3840937500001,"end":521.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":521.43471875,"end":523.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.1853437500001,"end":527.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.21846875,"end":529.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":530.3953437499999,"end":533.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":534.54659375,"end":537.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":538.0734687500001,"end":538.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":539.6597187500001,"end":545.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":546.5278437500001,"end":549.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":549.31221875,"end":551.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":551.38784375,"end":562.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":562.8628437500001,"end":563.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":564.06096875,"end":567.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":567.26721875,"end":578.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":579.51846875,"end":580.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":580.90221875,"end":581.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":582.64034375,"end":586.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":587.09534375,"end":591.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":592.15784375,"end":592.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":592.27596875,"end":592.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":592.3603437500001,"end":592.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.3559687500001,"end":614.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":614.07846875,"end":615.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":615.9853437500001,"end":616.0022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":616.0359687499999,"end":617.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":617.90909375,"end":619.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.42346875,"end":623.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":624.82784375,"end":628.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":628.60784375,"end":632.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":632.92784375,"end":634.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":635.22284375,"end":636.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":637.5347187500001,"end":638.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":639.00284375,"end":641.3484687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":641.68596875,"end":643.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":643.77846875,"end":648.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":648.6215937500001,"end":651.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":651.5578437500001,"end":653.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":654.2240937500001,"end":656.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":657.8015937499999,"end":666.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":667.36971875,"end":675.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":675.67221875,"end":678.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":679.4015937500001,"end":685.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":686.0503437500001,"end":689.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":690.2690937500001,"end":691.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.9228437500001,"end":693.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":693.71159375,"end":697.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":697.8459687500001,"end":703.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":703.83659375,"end":710.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":711.4809687500001,"end":712.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":714.36659375,"end":714.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":716.76284375,"end":719.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":720.13784375,"end":727.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":727.71471875,"end":727.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":727.76534375,"end":728.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":728.3897187500002,"end":729.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":729.03096875,"end":729.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":730.6003437500001,"end":731.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":731.96721875,"end":733.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":734.1440937500001,"end":739.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":739.7803437500002,"end":746.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":740.0334687500001,"end":740.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.2822187500001,"end":742.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.78409375,"end":743.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":743.03721875,"end":743.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.57659375,"end":758.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":754.2590937500001,"end":754.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":757.7353437500001,"end":757.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.4778437500001,"end":759.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":759.91221875,"end":762.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":760.35096875,"end":762.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.74721875,"end":762.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":762.76409375,"end":763.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.29971875,"end":770.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":771.2522187500001,"end":772.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":772.88909375,"end":773.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.56409375,"end":775.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":779.47034375,"end":782.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":782.55846875,"end":783.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":784.65096875,"end":786.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":787.21596875,"end":787.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":790.43909375,"end":794.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":794.7590937500001,"end":797.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":797.88096875,"end":797.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":797.9484687500001,"end":797.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":797.9653437500001,"end":798.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":798.85971875,"end":798.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":798.91034375,"end":798.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":798.9440937500001,"end":798.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":798.9778437500001,"end":798.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":799.0959687500001,"end":800.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":801.4922187500001,"end":802.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":803.0447187500001,"end":806.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":806.5547187500001,"end":808.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":809.2547187500002,"end":810.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":810.99284375,"end":816.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":817.72596875,"end":821.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":821.7084687500001,"end":824.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":825.20159375,"end":825.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.7878437500001,"end":828.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":828.67784375,"end":834.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":834.9553437500001,"end":838.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":839.0053437500001,"end":847.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":847.5947187500001,"end":848.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":848.97846875,"end":855.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":855.12096875,"end":857.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":857.83784375,"end":859.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":862.84971875,"end":863.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":863.40659375,"end":867.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":868.1484687500001,"end":873.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":873.85221875,"end":880.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":880.6865937500002,"end":898.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":899.2322187500001,"end":905.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":905.8134687500001,"end":910.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.8840937500001,"end":925.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":925.86096875,"end":935.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":936.44159375,"end":937.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":936.96471875,"end":937.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":937.43721875,"end":938.2134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.55096875,"end":940.9640937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.929,"end":9.909,"text":"謝謝主席,馬上有請部長黃國昌部長好"},{"start":19.186,"end":41.396,"text":"兩個禮拜以前那個前部長在這邊承諾兩個禮拜要提出調查報告我昨天看你們的聲明是沒有辦法對不對現在還在調查中下禮拜會交出來下禮拜會交出來下禮拜會公布中期調查的報告沒有啦因為我知道你新就任所以我不想為難但我基本上的態度是說不會再立法院"},{"start":42.296,"end":68.286,"text":"既然做了承諾能夠遵守就盡量遵守新舊部長交接你剛上任他的承諾沒有辦法履行的部分責任要你扛我覺得也不公平但是我很看重在這個地方立委跟官員彼此之間我們在尋答過程當中所做出來的承諾這個是基本上面的原則那既然你新上任"},{"start":69.389,"end":72.193,"text":"下禮拜會交出來嗎?下禮拜會公布我第二個要請教的問題是說勞動部官員使用公帑去驗客是國家機密嗎?不是"},{"start":84.827,"end":106.739,"text":"那公署的電費是國家機密嗎?不是那使用公帑送禮是國家機密嗎?不是那如果都不是的話為什麼我發一個函去問你們編密件?這我搞不懂欸因為我接到齁我是一個念法律的人我很守法啦只要公務機關回函給我編密件"},{"start":107.765,"end":108.065,"text":"請針鋒處長回答"},{"start":119.96,"end":141.065,"text":"發言委員因為我們回答您的上次您在質詢的時候關於東營公所的案子檢查機關已經在偵辦所以那一部分的內容我們認為他已經叫我們就停止調查因為他是在偵查的一部分所以那一部分這個問題我不要在這邊花太多時間但我請"},{"start":145.186,"end":171.542,"text":"政風處的主任回去再重新的理解所謂的偵查不公開就所何止啊絕對不是按照你們所解釋的這個樣子什麼叫偵查不公開是在偵查的過程當中檢察官的具體偵查行為所發現的資訊為了要確保偵查的順利他具體的偵查行為所發現的資訊不可以對外公開"},{"start":172.563,"end":182.872,"text":"但是行政部門針對你們手上所掌握到的資料我看了裡面實際的內容我老實講很多委員都收錄到了我以法律人的判斷這根本就不屬於在機密的範圍所以從剛剛部長回答的過程你也可以看得出來部長回答的為什麼這麼自然"},{"start":196.294,"end":206.634,"text":"但是我沒有意思要在今天這個地方跟你們爭論這件事情我善意的提醒我們政風室的主任再回去了解一下"},{"start":207.762,"end":229.728,"text":"你們在公文上面所回覆的那個內容為什麼會編密件啊因為行政機關啊有一個非常不好的習慣我不希望這個習慣無限的延伸下去不要隨便編密件要不然裡面寫的東西我老實講我看完了以後我第一個疑問是這是哪門子機密啊"},{"start":230.962,"end":250.027,"text":"為什麼要編密件?你們再回去看一看再重新的審視檢討一次這樣可以嗎?那個我回應黃委員確實目前這些相關的案件因為這個檢調這邊來跟我們說明尤其是涉及到採購跟涉及到標案的部分"},{"start":251.167,"end":274.9,"text":"那他們現在正在調查所以他也請我們先暫緩相關的調查所以我想那個密件不是說我們要去遮掩什麼東西主要是因為現在檢調在調查的部分所以我剛剛才會跟你特別的強調嘛所謂偵查不公開的原則叫你們不要再處理或是什麼這個我都尊重啊但是這個跟你們回應立法院裡面的內容根本不涉及偵查的內容你編密件"},{"start":275.925,"end":300.492,"text":"我覺得這條線要守住否則以後這是原則性的問題就沒完沒了我覺得怎麼樣提供比較合理但是確實這不一定是密件啦這樣子沒有關係啊那個你們自己再回去檢討我給你們時間再回去想一想再回去檢討因為我後面還有其他的問題剛剛4分鐘主席已經加強語氣了所以我速度要稍微啊"},{"start":302.285,"end":313.893,"text":"要稍微再快一點在11月21號新北市勞工局勞檢以後勞動部有沒有要求北分署的同仁填寫表單填寫什麼樣的表單我具體的講職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表應該是有啦"},{"start":327.253,"end":350.758,"text":"因為北分署的同仁他們就把你們內部的email就跟我檢舉啦所以要你們填這個不法侵害行為自主檢核表啊對不起這是什麼時候發的來來來右手邊來看一下11月25號下午3點18分各位主管同仁您好我是分署職安人員"},{"start":351.698,"end":358.442,"text":"有關113年11月21日新北市勞檢處勞檢應辦的事項辦理職場危害評估及執行紀錄 敬請大家於113年11月26日前填寫職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表跟委員說明我自己看這份文件的目的應該是想要針對"},{"start":377.068,"end":405.027,"text":"下屬的單位有沒有相關職場不法侵害部分做一輪的瞭解只是瞭解的方法有不妥當這我們可以檢討沒有沒有沒有部長你不要緊張啦我沒有說瞭解的方法妥不妥當第一個我質詢的習慣是先確定事實先確定事實是我秀那張email給你我只是要證實說我不是道聽途說的人家白紙黑字你們發的東西我掌握了第二個填這個"},{"start":406.59,"end":433.362,"text":"自主檢核表也不是什麼不法的東西因為依照執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的附錄6本來就有這個自主檢核表但為什麼這件事情我要提出質詢這個不法侵害行為自主檢核表裡面來請部長看一下左下角這個檢核表有要求填表的人要署名嗎"},{"start":436.106,"end":457.987,"text":"這個檢核表適合要求人要署名嗎?這個都是勞動部的法規我等一下因為這個字比較小這個法規叫做執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引裡面有個附錄6職場不法侵害行為自主檢核表你們誰業務熟的上來幫部長一下好不好"},{"start":459.213,"end":467.358,"text":"該委員報告我們這個指引的自主檢核表相對並沒有寫並沒有填那個姓名職稱那個的欄位應該要叫他們填名字嗎"},{"start":468.596,"end":492.979,"text":"我覺得看機關自己內部的一些做法我覺得還是有可以彈性的討論的等一下等一下等一下當你講齁這個彈性的討論對不起我就沒辦法接受囉因為這個是我們提供給事業單位做參與使用他們做自己的內部的那個調查是啊是啊那你覺得應不應該要大家署名呢我們沒有要求在這文件裡面職產署署長我們沒有要求大家署名"},{"start":493.821,"end":518.596,"text":"這個就是我的重點來他們實際下面發下去的是什麼實際下面發下去的在你們公告給社會看到的表格裡面他們發下去的表格竟然自己寫了填表者要大家署名部長你覺得這樣適合嗎這是我剛才說的想要了解想要去做一些調查但是這些調查的過程它的形式上這個合不合適這當然我們都可以檢討的"},{"start":520.174,"end":538.273,"text":"在這邊部長說可以檢討但我希望部長回去了解了以後要有個基本的態度我為什麼說要有個基本的態度因為北分署的同仁他們為什麼會陳情到我這邊來他們當初看到這個檢核表的時候大家都傻眼要簽名捏"},{"start":539.727,"end":562.035,"text":"要簽名欸這種東西如果要簽名的話誰敢表達他自己的爭議啊在規範上面我必須要說為什麼當初的檢核表沒有設計這個簽名你發的對象絕對是署內的同仁沒有錯嘛你不可能發去路邊給路人嘛既然你要調查署內同仁的意義"},{"start":562.955,"end":591.261,"text":"的想法那你就要讓大家有自由表意的空間嘛這個是為什麼當初在這個表格裡面沒有要大家寫填表者嘛但當但事發了以後事發了以後為什麼北分署的同仁大家會憤怒大家會不滿你發下來這個表上面竟然要大家填表這樣好嗎呃 歡迎我我同意如果要求大家署名的話會有你剛才說的顧慮好"},{"start":593.433,"end":619.017,"text":"需不需要署名這件事情我希望部裡面有一個統一的原則而不是按照剛剛另外一位長官所講的什麼各機關彈性調整這樣子的話那以後你開創了這個不應該開創的空間對於這個自主檢核表他目的的達成以及填寫同仁自主意願的表達顯然是會造成障礙的部長可不可以同意同意好"},{"start":620.575,"end":625.482,"text":"欸那個我最後主席我還有一分鐘可以嗎?30秒好啦你別那麼吵啦"},{"start":628.663,"end":640.468,"text":"那第二個事情這個是2023年12月26號北分署的會議記錄在那個會議記錄裡面去記載了什麼他說本分署DNA是要務實解決問題對於風氣、性騷、職場霸凌、絕對零容忍我們一定從速從重處理而這個會議的主席就是當時的分署長謝一龍"},{"start":657.864,"end":684.591,"text":"我看到這個會議記錄啊我必須要跟部長說啊我看了這是無比的諷刺無比的諷刺這是2023年12月26號依照上一次勞動部所出具連部長前部長自己都承認不合格的調查報告當中都已經認定他有霸凌的事實結果他所主持的會議當中說本分署零容忍重訴重重處理"},{"start":686.112,"end":708.825,"text":"我把這個提出來並不是想要再一次的去批評或者是去譴責這個謝宜龍雖然再度批評或譴責也沒有什麼不對但我想要了解的實際的狀況是你們有沒有去理解或者是掌握資訊在他當分署長的任內針對職場霸凌有沒有出現過申訴案件有還是沒有編事單位"},{"start":716.786,"end":746.128,"text":"因為我很好奇到底是沒有申訴案件還是有申訴結果不曉得被怎麼搞掉了因為分署長告訴所有署內的同仁是本分署零容忍重重處理歡迎我可以說如果就算沒有申訴案件也是因為我們內部在相關處理的機制是有問題的沒有關係你先不用跟我講如果就是客觀的事實有還是沒有先回答這個就好了"},{"start":747.588,"end":775.478,"text":"跟委員報告北分署的話在112年有霸凌的申訴案件是三件那113年呢113年也是三件那最後的結果呢都是沒有成立都是沒有處理那我現在再問一下那個112年的三件跟113年的三件如果是不成立是不是各有調查報告應該要有吧那這個總共六份調查報告可以提供嗎"},{"start":779.499,"end":800.007,"text":"我們去做各自的遮蔽以後好不好需要多久這個時間我要問啦因為我常常會等很久因為今天北分組不在啦那我們跟北分組確認一下等一下回覆委員什麼時候可以提供好最後一個問題真的是最後一個問題齁"},{"start":801.547,"end":825.769,"text":"因為我在今年2024年1月2號北分署的會議紀錄又看到了說我們分署採購案被勞動部集合計有羅列26項缺失然後分署長謝宜龍說要大家多加注意那我看到這個會議紀錄那顯然是什麼北分署"},{"start":826.826,"end":847.861,"text":"在辦採購的時候他出現的問題勞動部之前已經什麼 集合到了有26項缺失那我好奇的事情是勞動部已經集合到了那為什麼謝怡榮他在當分署長任內的時候所辦理的採購案到目前為止浮上水面的又這麼多問題"},{"start":850.565,"end":859.283,"text":"針對勞動部集合所羅列的那26項缺失的內容是不是可以請勞動部事後提供可以可以嗎需要多久"},{"start":863.439,"end":880.354,"text":"好沒有問題那回復的時候拜託順便講一件事針對這26項缺失集合出來了以後那然後呢接下來發生什麼事呃黃委員剛剛秘書處跟我說明說其實這集合的缺失常常是程序上面有瑕疵"},{"start":880.694,"end":898.031,"text":"沒有關係我看了26項了以後具體一樣一樣看因為我喜歡本於事實討論等到我拿到白紙黑字的東西羅列那26項缺失有什麼問題我們再來看當初為什麼勞動部有集合出來但是後續"},{"start":899.312,"end":908.767,"text":"是不是有處理我現在沒有下任何定論所以我剛請你們一併回應26項缺失有沒有處理是沒有必要處理還是實際的狀況是什麼一併回覆這樣可以嗎"},{"start":912.924,"end":937.201,"text":"通常我們集合出來如果有缺失的話能夠立即改正就會請他們立即改正那如果就是說已經事情無法改正了以後我們就次年的時候會再再度再次集合類似案件沒有關係啊你們的26項缺失是什麼後續處理的行動是什麼我們有了具體的內容以後下一階段再來檢討會比較清楚一點這樣可以嗎OK可以喔好謝謝謝謝謝謝王委員謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"157744","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157744","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083601d5b4cc8d02012dde45dd5fe0ad21242525ce9d933a56c3fba8a105b9bd18edd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:24:23 - 09:37:45","影片長度":"00:13:22","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:24:23+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:37:45+08:00","duration":802,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.73909375,"end":6.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.949718750000001,"end":7.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.244093750000001,"end":13.277843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.277843750000002,"end":13.750343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.25659375,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.58096875,"end":24.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.73596875,"end":28.296593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.684718750000002,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.970968750000004,"end":55.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.89784375,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.12346875,"end":69.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.26471875,"end":88.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":90.58221875000001,"end":91.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.16846875,"end":98.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.90596875,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.40721875000001,"end":103.87971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.17909375,"end":115.42221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.09721875000001,"end":119.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.16034375000001,"end":117.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.34159375,"end":118.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.03346875000001,"end":123.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.98659375000001,"end":126.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.75784375,"end":130.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.26784375,"end":137.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.24159375000002,"end":141.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.58284375,"end":143.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.80596875,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.93659375000001,"end":150.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.65721875,"end":154.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.75409375,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.99034375000002,"end":152.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.00721875000002,"end":152.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.04096875000002,"end":152.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.43284375000002,"end":157.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.68971875,"end":159.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.25909375,"end":164.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":165.69284375,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.03346875,"end":182.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.85471875000002,"end":204.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.06659375,"end":221.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.61284375000002,"end":218.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.62534375,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.01721875,"end":225.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.09721875000002,"end":233.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.01971875,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.20471875,"end":239.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.92596875,"end":241.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.68096875,"end":246.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.03471875000002,"end":253.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.09721875000002,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.20659375000002,"end":261.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.28534375000004,"end":269.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.96346875,"end":274.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.12721875,"end":290.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.98971875,"end":292.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.77846875,"end":303.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.43909375000004,"end":311.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.57284375,"end":316.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.91784375000003,"end":329.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.48159375,"end":331.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.91159375,"end":336.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.31159375000004,"end":338.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.71221875000003,"end":340.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.39534375,"end":347.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.26346875,"end":349.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.30534375,"end":358.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.77659375,"end":368.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.37409375000004,"end":371.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.25971875000005,"end":387.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.43034375,"end":388.07159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.37096875000003,"end":393.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.23534375,"end":417.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.18034375,"end":425.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.90534375000004,"end":431.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.27159375,"end":432.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.24596875000003,"end":436.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.29534375000003,"end":441.37971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.49346875000003,"end":451.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.48346875000004,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.62659375000004,"end":464.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.00471875000005,"end":470.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.11346875000004,"end":472.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.45471875000004,"end":517.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.78971875,"end":519.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.01721875,"end":534.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.95159375,"end":538.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":538.9678437499999,"end":538.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.17034375,"end":539.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2040937500001,"end":545.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.2378437500001,"end":539.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.8828437500001,"end":543.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.24971875,"end":544.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.50284375,"end":544.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.5365937500001,"end":544.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.22846875,"end":547.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":547.87784375,"end":555.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.5009687500001,"end":563.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.33096875,"end":574.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.87909375,"end":568.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.01721875,"end":575.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.7553437500001,"end":582.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.30721875,"end":599.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.51534375,"end":599.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.1059687500001,"end":630.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.9953437500001,"end":606.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":606.38346875,"end":606.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.40034375,"end":606.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.2278437500001,"end":638.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.46284375,"end":640.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.12096875,"end":640.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.4328437500001,"end":659.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.3034687500001,"end":688.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.5478437500001,"end":711.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.00034375,"end":709.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.68346875,"end":723.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.8672187500001,"end":724.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":724.37346875,"end":729.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":729.9253437500001,"end":732.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":732.40596875,"end":747.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.5265937500001,"end":745.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.3447187500001,"end":752.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":749.8884687500001,"end":750.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":752.33534375,"end":752.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":753.48284375,"end":753.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.15784375,"end":758.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.0515937499999,"end":763.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.9284687500001,"end":765.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.84784375,"end":767.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.96159375,"end":770.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.01596875,"end":784.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.15346875,"end":791.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.98409375,"end":786.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.92909375,"end":787.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.0634687500001,"end":793.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.16034375,"end":795.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":794.80971875,"end":798.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":795.61971875,"end":796.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":796.5984687500002,"end":797.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":798.5222187500001,"end":799.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":799.83846875,"end":800.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.12096875,"end":802.97721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.021,"end":7.723,"text":"謝謝主席,我們是不是有請洪部長來,洪部長請部長好,你今天是不是很緊張啊?因為我看你剛剛的報告你是逐字照稿演出,一字不漏,你是不是很緊張?其實這幾天已經很多媒體來詢問了,壓力是有,但不至於到緊張"},{"start":33.598,"end":38.361,"text":"因為我覺得如果是很熟練的話逐字念稿這個是比較罕見的剛剛還超時希望這個你可以升任愉快因為你是在沒有準備好的情況底下上任我想你的壓力應該特別大但是該監督的我們絕對是監督到底"},{"start":50.069,"end":67.983,"text":"第一個我就要問你有關於這個勞動部濫用救安基金8000萬那可以看到這個林林總總從整個外牆的整修連咖啡豆會議室的揚聲器的採購公文的這個文書信封還有垃圾的清運還有臉書"},{"start":70.665,"end":88.78,"text":"網路經營等等這些錢通通都要由救安基金來支出勞動部是不是把救安基金變成是你們的小金庫哪一個部會缺錢然後就從這個救安基金裡面把錢搬過來任意使用"},{"start":90.609,"end":115.183,"text":"跟委員報告齁,其實在上週我剛接任的時候,其實我其實就已經有交代同仁,針對救安基金的支用問題：你承不承認現在的救安基金就是有使用腐爛,濫用的一個情況?部長你承不承認?我們在檢視過,上週我其實就要求我們針對救安基金的使用進行檢視,我們在這幾天的檢視過程裡面,坦白說我們真的,我們是有發現部分的項目"},{"start":116.158,"end":142.99,"text":"只有部分嗎?八千萬算是部分項目嗎?是有部分的項目在致用的合一上面你認為現在所列出來這些項目通通由救安基金來使用合理嗎?包括你們的臉書網路的經營垃圾的清運還有咖啡豆的採購外牆整修通通都要由救安基金來支出這個合理嗎?委員我們是有認為裡面部分的項目確實是有問題的那幾項你告訴本席哪一項是不合理的?"},{"start":143.991,"end":164.105,"text":"還是你也認同我上週其實我們其實就看到比方說看到那個會議室的設備採購這個會議室的設備採購要花掉2250萬那我們其實上週我其實也到了法案署我看了那間會議室"},{"start":165.751,"end":182.165,"text":"那對於這個會議室要的這個整修要用到2000多萬這樣的經費坦白說我是不能接受的我就問你未來你現在已經當部長了未來這些項目支出在今年省救安基金的時候你們還會不會這樣子編列會不會這樣子使用"},{"start":183.979,"end":198.014,"text":"跟委員報告其實目前針對救安基金的支用我們其實已經未經交代法案署那我們一定是必須針對把關機制進行強化因為這裡面會有個案性的問題也有機制面的問題針對機制面的問題我們其實已經開始在邀請相關的"},{"start":204.121,"end":232.724,"text":"所以部長你也不敢直接回答這幾大項目現在大家揪出來的認為有濫用之餘的你也不敢直接明確表態說以後你就不會這樣子編列這些項目一律不准從救安基金支出我覺得你不敢做這樣的稱呼你再回避問題我沒有回避問題那你就直接告訴大家我們絕對沒有回避問題但是委員我想讓委員知道其實這裡面有一些相關的項目坦白說並不是現在所有媒體"},{"start":234.806,"end":261.046,"text":"呃 曝光出來的項目都每一項都有問題並不是所以你認同部分的項目部分的項目有問題你覺得只有部分有問題有些是你認同的以後還會這樣子使用就對了我們會在使用的名目上面更明確的做檢討他到底合不合宜我們會用資質的檢討來去處理問題本席就告訴你齁你們現在如何的濫用這個救安基金齁大家都在關注這個許民村的演唱會喔"},{"start":262.347,"end":290.458,"text":"你們對外說花了368.7萬元在這個演唱會結果我去調資料你們的計畫裡面根本沒有這個演唱會的項目我要問你們的是請問演唱會的舞台燈光音響樂團服裝人員這一些的支出項目到底在哪裡從你們提供給我的資料裡面沒有一筆是這樣的支出你們的支出是什麼大家看到"},{"start":291.158,"end":297.484,"text":"這個PVP上面的影帶製作204萬影像拍攝150萬平面設計8萬客製化的口罩12萬請問你們編列這樣的一個預算是文宣媒體採購結果變成了百萬的演唱會預算可以這樣子腐爛的使用嗎我們再看下一張"},{"start":318.956,"end":346.025,"text":"你這個是完全的細項喔你的影帶製作裡面你說你要做7支影帶一支影帶的金額是高達29萬0837元然後你的影像拍攝是一組145萬4163元還有平面設計兩組然後你還要做口罩非常的昂貴一個口罩要24塊"},{"start":348.851,"end":367.495,"text":"請問你這一些你勞動部還有書面的驗收記錄然後我就是看不出來演唱會的任何一筆支出到底在你這一個宣導製作裡面哪一筆是符合演唱會的支出通通都沒有那演唱會的錢從哪裡來你告訴本席那個跟網友報告齁"},{"start":374.181,"end":387.759,"text":"呃針對現在大家看到這個音樂會的活動其實也是一樣上週其實我們就請有單位來做報告第一個事情是確實性工法是臺灣包括性別平等包括勞動法之外非常標誌性的事件但是我要說的是對於"},{"start":389.417,"end":416.291,"text":"有部分的橋段的呈現確實如果讓這不是橋段呈現問題部長我現在在問你是說你們自己告訴本席的是你們這一個音樂會原位專編預算你是沒有編預算的結果你就直接把文宣媒體的通路的採購案直接的錢把它挪過來然後就去辦演唱會預算是可以這樣子用的嗎政風處處長你上來"},{"start":421.446,"end":436.011,"text":"預算是可以這樣子用的嗎那如果這樣子以後立法院不要審預算了你們所有的媒體採購自己再去長出另外一個演唱會那立法院在監督什麼可以這樣子嗎我問你媒體採購的預算可以直接變成是演唱會嗎"},{"start":442.543,"end":451.664,"text":"整個就是媒體通路然後他是一個開口合約然後再根據我們各個計劃的項目再去執行的"},{"start":454.76,"end":469.477,"text":"他在發包的時候他是一個就是一個開口合約然後事後根據實際的需要然後才去執行各個所謂的宣導的項目那你沒看到他的怎麼編列嗎他的影帶製作一隻要29萬多要做7隻就佔掉200多萬了"},{"start":474.5,"end":490.272,"text":"那我就高度懷疑啊要嘛就是你這個媒體採購你根本就是浮邊亂邊都是灌水的天底下哪有那麼好的事情我要幫你做7支的影單一支成本高達29萬然後還要免費送你一個演唱會演唱會百萬等級的我沒有看過這樣子的一個一個開口合約我也沒有看過一個媒體可能會這麼大方要嘛就是你這一些所謂的媒體7支通通都是灌水的"},{"start":503.863,"end":507.104,"text":"就是腐爛製造的29萬應該要拍出什麼樣的水準你那7支影片提供給委員會我們大家來欣賞一下我們大家來看一下花29萬一支的這個影帶成本到底拍成什麼樣子這個是完全不合理的"},{"start":520.069,"end":520.509,"text":"目前此案檢調其實已經來做調閱跟偵辦了"},{"start":539.264,"end":544.025,"text":"你們自己都沒有發現有問題 連政風處署長都不敢講一聲 部長你也不覺得有問題我當然 我不會說他沒有問題 但是現在檢調確實已經在整辦跟調閱中 本部會全力配合檢調的調查"},{"start":556.807,"end":575.164,"text":"這個你以後要怎麼改善救安基金我們要怎麼樣監督現在你手上握有權力請問你要如何強化監督我們目前正在研議這個強化監督的機制你什麼時候機制要出來包括大家現在對於可能呈現的形式上面的批評跟指教當然我們都會納入這事情的參考你預計什麼時候提出來"},{"start":575.825,"end":599.737,"text":"我們希望我真的是希望儘快因為這幾天我們其實就請同仁找外部的專業者來提供給我們這些專業的建議我想這個社會大家受不了這個救安基金變成是勞動部的金庫而且任意的挪用甚至還違法的使用這個絕對是大家沒有辦法忍受的事情所以我要求你應該要限期就要提出你的監督機制一個月可不可以可以"},{"start":600.137,"end":610.724,"text":"可以齁好我要求一個月之後你要把這個重新的監督管理機制提出來另外最後我要問你今天本來其實您要提提示這個調查報告有關於吳姓公務員親身的這個事件的調查報告按照那個期程之前勞動部答應委員會就是兩個禮拜的時間就是今天時間到了結果今天你隻字未提說還在重啟調查那我就問你我就問你期程你的調查報告什麼時候給委員會"},{"start":630.257,"end":631.598,"text":"我們目前預計下週會讓重啟調查的報告對外界來公布然後會來說明下週就可以下週下週禮拜七"},{"start":642.443,"end":661.981,"text":"我要跟委員說因為我們目前正在增加訪談的對象也是希望能夠讓這個調查報告更加的周延跟完整那我自己也希望要快可是確實這裡面的時間我自己坦白說我自己也希望儘快但我目前預期之人就是在下週下週一定要交出來而且下週我要求喔"},{"start":663.101,"end":685.733,"text":"針對這一個無姓員工他生前他的上班時值的時間上一次你們交的是10月22號為止喔你們的報告裡面必須往前回溯他到底從什麼時候開始就已經是過勞超時加班這些你應該都要一個一個你們既然是仔細的調查我要看到這個部分不可以只交10月22號的這個上班紀錄"},{"start":688.795,"end":711.3,"text":"委員我也想跟各位說明在這次的調查報告裡面我們當然更希望去還原這位無姓的公務員他究竟經歷了什麼我們很希望就這部分能夠把它理清楚那給家屬一個真誠的交代這是我們這次調查報告裡面我認為很重要的重點"},{"start":711.98,"end":713.522,"text":"因為這段時間大家各界其實有很多的建議其實在12月2號就是禮拜一的時候"},{"start":732.583,"end":751.804,"text":"職安署也請邀請了專家學者來做研商那專家學者其實提供了不管是專法或者是專章或者是比較小幅的修法各種優缺的意見所以你們現在還沒有訂件我現在只是開放太久那你預計修法什麼時候要送到立法院來我一樣要求的是期程你們還要多久時間期程"},{"start":754.628,"end":769.888,"text":"我們上次跟委員會報告是我們這個預告進行然後我們會送行政院是一個 送立法院一個下個會期會來做進行下個會期是要等到明年了對明年什麼時候下個會期二月份一開一就會送進來"},{"start":771.035,"end":798.205,"text":"那個跟委員報告其實確實要做職場霸凌的法制化這確實是蠻多專業性的問題那我們也在參考目前國際上面法制相關的案例那如果要動的條件特別多的話 當然知道 任何事情都要有目標要有期程要有具體的進度我們要求的是這個不可以遙遙無期啊當然我們絕對不會遙遙無期那就是下個會期一定要送進來我們希望對二月份對二月份我們希望下個會期能夠送進來好謝謝"},{"start":800.587,"end":800.667,"text":"謝謝王委員 謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"157818","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157818","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360537bb23c3956575de45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a10614b1ada5b04794185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"13:07:57 - 13:23:50","影片長度":"00:15:53","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:07:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:23:50+08:00","duration":953,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.82721875,"end":11.067218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.817218750000002,"end":18.340343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.44159375,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.473468750000002,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.524093750000002,"end":48.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.92596875,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.30971875,"end":57.439718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.50346875,"end":55.313468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.861593750000004,"end":62.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.485343750000006,"end":66.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.83909375,"end":68.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.16784375,"end":72.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.98596875,"end":74.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.29784375,"end":74.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.92221875,"end":75.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.31034375,"end":77.50409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.67659375000001,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.30034375000001,"end":87.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.10596875,"end":88.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.10159375,"end":89.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.35034375000001,"end":90.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.63284375,"end":125.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.49659375,"end":127.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.04471875000002,"end":129.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.79971875,"end":134.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.20409375,"end":135.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.26721875,"end":141.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.35909375,"end":164.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.15284375000002,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.13909375,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.89846875,"end":179.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.09159375000002,"end":181.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.70721875,"end":184.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.88409375,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.47034375,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.17471875,"end":187.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.20846875,"end":192.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.00096875,"end":193.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.29596875000001,"end":195.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.38846875000002,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.85221875000002,"end":210.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.51284375,"end":221.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.47721875000002,"end":224.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.22784375,"end":225.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.24471875,"end":227.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.22346875000002,"end":226.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.33721875,"end":228.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.61971875,"end":231.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.02846875,"end":234.18846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.39096875,"end":236.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.19659375,"end":237.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.71096875,"end":239.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.04409375,"end":242.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.47409375,"end":243.03096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.50784375,"end":247.24971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.86596875,"end":246.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.26659375000003,"end":248.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.60409375,"end":251.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.85659375000003,"end":254.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.25284375,"end":255.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.86846875000003,"end":257.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.20159375000003,"end":259.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.09159375,"end":260.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.13784375,"end":263.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.90534375000004,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.44034375,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.22909375,"end":277.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.47346875,"end":274.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.86096875000004,"end":278.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.51471875000004,"end":285.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.37034375,"end":292.79534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.33221875000004,"end":286.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.94721875,"end":302.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.38409375000003,"end":310.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.35409375,"end":309.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.69971875000005,"end":315.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.74534375,"end":319.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.39034375,"end":341.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.80034375,"end":345.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.56346875,"end":352.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.66346875000005,"end":365.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.63659375000003,"end":364.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.81346875,"end":366.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.47159375,"end":367.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.78784375000004,"end":385.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.48971875,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.77659375,"end":386.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.61409375000005,"end":414.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.22159375,"end":401.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.52721875000003,"end":428.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.68971875000005,"end":429.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.34346875,"end":438.35909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.66284375000004,"end":443.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.97846875000005,"end":460.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.65096875,"end":461.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.57909375,"end":464.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.85721875,"end":616.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.64159375,"end":494.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.0990937500001,"end":618.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.75284375,"end":621.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.00971875,"end":635.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.50971875,"end":636.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.62346875,"end":642.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.4578437499999,"end":647.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.7947187500001,"end":652.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.21159375,"end":653.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.90346875,"end":653.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.92034375,"end":661.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.34534375,"end":668.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.7197187500001,"end":672.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":672.44909375,"end":674.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.2378437500001,"end":676.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.4609687500001,"end":680.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.44784375,"end":683.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.10971875,"end":684.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.0547187500001,"end":686.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.53534375,"end":688.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.1553437500002,"end":689.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.93159375,"end":691.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.17596875,"end":695.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.4622187500001,"end":704.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":702.7397187500001,"end":703.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.4734687499999,"end":709.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.41784375,"end":710.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.99159375,"end":714.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.78409375,"end":716.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.5265937500001,"end":717.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.9272187500001,"end":718.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.9353437500001,"end":722.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.82096875,"end":725.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.36909375,"end":730.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.6172187500001,"end":838.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.2197187500001,"end":736.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.6072187500001,"end":741.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.2265937500001,"end":827.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.2297187500001,"end":834.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.54971875,"end":842.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.2409687500001,"end":848.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.5522187500001,"end":858.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":860.48721875,"end":860.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":861.61784375,"end":863.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":863.3728437500001,"end":867.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":866.54534375,"end":871.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.09784375,"end":868.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.5828437500002,"end":869.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.1015937500001,"end":881.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.3828437500001,"end":905.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.83409375,"end":882.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.2209687500001,"end":890.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.62784375,"end":911.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":911.8884687500001,"end":914.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.2722187500001,"end":917.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.3859687500001,"end":915.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":917.03534375,"end":919.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":920.7309687500001,"end":925.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.2534687500001,"end":928.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":928.69596875,"end":929.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.8897187500002,"end":931.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":932.1553437500002,"end":934.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":934.9734687500002,"end":937.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":937.3022187500001,"end":941.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":939.6140937500002,"end":951.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":949.1147187500001,"end":950.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":953.43471875,"end":954.26159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.466,"end":10.394,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請洪森漢部長"},{"start":18.491,"end":39.226,"text":"委員好部長好您是在11月25號上任的對吧是好那我想問一下有一個問題就是上個禮拜的時候因為您已經上任大概一週有餘那差不多上個禮拜的時候勞發署有沒有發一封信件給各個分署要求同仁要填寫表單"},{"start":40.907,"end":47.172,"text":"詢問是否有平日加班、假日加班、超時工作有沒有打卡的情況,進行調查。"},{"start":51.133,"end":56.937,"text":"請回答大聲一點好不好你可以大聲一點嗎這收音的問題好那我知道那請問部長你知道這件事情嗎"},{"start":81.808,"end":90.315,"text":"我坦白說在這個發的時候其實我並不知道啦你不知道那時候你上任了嗎那時候我上任你上任了但你不知道但這件事沒有報上來沒有報上來所以勞發署發了一封信件給各分署同仁要求填寫表單而且呢他是一個實名制的調查喔他要求同仁問"},{"start":103.726,"end":103.866,"text":"跟委員說明"},{"start":128.092,"end":133.173,"text":"那你負責的態度是什麼?你覺得有必要道歉嗎?你知道那些同仁他們同事之間心照不宣都知道誰有來加班但呢寫了又後悔要刪掉怕自己寫出去會造成單位主管不滿"},{"start":156.38,"end":170.831,"text":"怕拖累不敢寫 寫了又刪除最後整個單位很有默契的全部給出空白的表單我現在問你們發出去之後回函裡面說自己有加班的有多少人佔多少比例"},{"start":172.37,"end":197.66,"text":"請回覆我們回覆之後我們有加班的是大概10個人左右總共有多少人來總共有多少人有回覆的人在10個人左右那你總共發給多少人嗎我們發給本署跟所署大概2000人左右2000人然後回覆了多少人回覆10位請問部長這是一個什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":199.148,"end":221.111,"text":"徐委員我這邊可以直接說啦就是對於調查方法如果有問題的或者是調查方法其實看起來明顯答不到所以大家想要了解成果的部分當然我們就是要當然就是檢討啦這有符合左院長宣布任命你為部長的時候你的三大期許嗎你跑到那個你上任的時候跑到了北分署裡面然後留下了你的電話之後這些人也不敢打電話給你啊"},{"start":223.186,"end":231.192,"text":"其實有確實有有人打電話給你跟你講這件事確實有基層反應這件事所以有人打電話給你告訴你這件事情那你有處理嗎"},{"start":232.356,"end":255.043,"text":"我們其實有看到所以有請有請業務單位去瞭解這個事情瞭解那有暫停嗎?什麼時候停止的?什麼時候停止這件事情的?你這是無非就是對這些公務員再一次的霸凌讓他們緊張嗎?欸走了一個何沛山來了一個洪森漢然後繼續霸凌是什麼意思啊?第一個徐委員我不覺得這個調查就叫做霸凌啦我覺得是啊"},{"start":256.886,"end":258.907,"text":"大家都嚇得半死才會給我陳情信那他為什麼不打電話給你要寫陳情信給我"},{"start":279.654,"end":282.815,"text":"11月28號人事室發信告知各單位早上7點40才可以上班打卡下班卡不能超過5點20超過的要提出報告請問有沒有這件事"},{"start":304.578,"end":308.679,"text":"11月28號人事室寫信給全部的基層機關告訴大家呢7點40以後才能夠打上班卡下班卡不可以超過5點20超過的必須要提出報告"},{"start":332.367,"end":351.988,"text":"那也不知道是什麼樣的報告是要送單純的加班申請呢還是說呢又會被抓去罵而且這個是沒有法源依據的要求這樣合理嗎所以呢呃陳情仁表示勞動部發展署各分署如果真心要改為什麼要從調查基層開始"},{"start":353.71,"end":372.775,"text":"那部長你可以說明一下就是說第一個人事是因為現在告訴我不知道好沒關係那你們是不是要回去調查有沒有發這封信這封信是誰發的如果有發的話是不是要檢討我會來了解而且因為我今天這個陳情信他分兩個部分嘛同一個人寫的前面一件事情已經被證實了確實有這件事"},{"start":374.375,"end":398.638,"text":"所以後面他講到的人事事發的這個信那我個人也覺得可能性非常的高我不覺得這個陳情仁他是稀滿的他是有框片的我覺得可能性非常的高所以我可以說明就是說我認為人事事可能他是基於他想要去了解現在現存的一些樣態所以想要去這個相關的動作是為了這件事情但是調查的方法規劃的不好"},{"start":399.779,"end":414.442,"text":"欸可是你看謝易榮他當初是怎麼樣的他也意思是告訴你說我要讓你加班但是呢你不能你一定要上下班時間卡要打對嘛但那個人他就只好呢上班的時候打卡下班的時候打卡但他繼續加班啊那所以說你們現在這樣子告知各單位說你7點40打上班卡下班卡不能超過5點20那跟當初謝易榮有什麼兩樣你沒有徹底性的去解決加班的問題嗎"},{"start":431.117,"end":443.064,"text":"對於怎麼樣降低同仁們不必要的加班這樣的負擔其實我們當然會來一樣會來做檢討那我會來跟人事室這邊討論就是說如果真的需要去了解"},{"start":444.085,"end":459.631,"text":"其實這個人事單位下面的一些目前不管是加班的狀況或者是他如果需要了解的話怎麼找到一個比較合宜的方法我覺得這是在調查方法上面的問題呃我不覺得這個事情一定是上工作這個就是跟這個謝宇榮一樣我不覺得這是不同"},{"start":461.851,"end":475.536,"text":"這是真的不等價的事情啦我覺得但是很多的基層同仁覺得新的部長上來之後你口口聲聲說要幫大家從勞權上面去做考量但是你所做的事情呢除了留下你的電話之外"},{"start":476.696,"end":494.342,"text":"所謂同仁還是要實名制的調查大家還是不敢說真話這是現在的基層同仁他們所告訴我們的狀態你先不要回答我因為我還有其他的問題要問你現在就是謝宜蓉的事情現在要再做檢討報告嗎對不對要再進一步做調查報告嗎對不對重啟調查來我給你一些線索請你針對這幾個人去做調查來"},{"start":500.384,"end":517.273,"text":"這個所謂的霸凌他不只是一個謝宜蓉的霸凌他是謝宜蓉們你要知道這樣子的一個霸凌他不可能是一個人就能夠完成的他其實是有一個集團包含了主任秘書陶竹苗的就業服務副分署長監察院國家人權委員會的教育交流組的組長還有勞動力發展署的外勞管理署的專門委員他們都曾經在"},{"start":528.839,"end":534.683,"text":"勞動部的北分署裡面所以呢我我不一一講因為我時間到了那這個報告我會再交給勞動部你們可以看到這個案情上面包含是壓榨同仁然後考積打70分然後呢收受政府補助單位提供的禮品壓榨同仁去寫出國考察報告還幫他自己去寫個人的碩士論文"},{"start":551.895,"end":556.479,"text":"甚至呢去盯著女性這個可能有涉及到性騷擾的問題還有呢這個要求同仁集資買萬寶龍的鋼筆送給政次要求中午12點站在電梯門口抓誰先離開去吃飯怎麼會有這麼幼稚的人那他後來就離開他覺得這邊很無聊就離開去那個監察院然後呢這個勞動力發展署的外勞管理組的專委"},{"start":580.276,"end":604.714,"text":"在外勞科長期間用公文打罵同仁內部投訴但遭到吃案蔡孟良去袒護他因為他們曾經是組長跟副組長的關係然後呢追查吹哨者所以我要講的是你今天作為部長你要調查的不只是謝宜蓉還有包括很多1234我現在已經有正式的發"},{"start":605.675,"end":617.762,"text":"公文給你們喔這個是我發公文給你們請你們要針對其他的部分一起調查因為公務人員上下署裡面在做這些霸凌的越來越多"},{"start":618.803,"end":639.896,"text":"徐委員我這邊讓我做一點說明好不好我們有收到你辦公室來的公文我有收到了這事情有交辦給相關的業務單位也進入到程序裡面處理可是我想講因為這涉及到很多的個案我真的覺得我們在這邊不不宜針對這些個案的細節做過多的討論"},{"start":643.516,"end":667.947,"text":"因為裡面我也看到有幾位其實他離開勞動部的時間真的蠻久了蠻久又怎樣我的意思是說你要但你說他是謝怡榮們就是說蠻久又怎樣我在外交部的提的三個霸凌案有的還是重啟調查的林佳龍部長也說他願意重啟調查徐委員我想我要說的是這些每一個案子我們都會我們都會想要把它查清楚"},{"start":668.749,"end":670.231,"text":"那多久會查清楚?"},{"start":670.231,"end":670.852,"text":"七天?"},{"start":670.852,"end":683.007,"text":"卓榮泰部長說調查一併都是七天內,可以嗎?我們會把它查清楚但是我自己覺得在查清楚前先不宜做標籤化的這樣子的敘述"},{"start":687.611,"end":714.265,"text":"如果查出來不是如陳前說的這樣其實這對於這些裡面很多的同仁也是不公平但我們會查清楚我們一定會查清楚但在查清楚前我真的不覺得我們要做標籤化的敘述這是我擔心的事情我真的擔心這件事情因為我有看到這些敘述但如果現在就要做標籤化的敘述的話如果查出來真的不是這樣的話"},{"start":715.834,"end":718.457,"text":"那如果所有的人都像你這樣說的話那這些案子所有的東西都會被大事化小小事化"},{"start":736.714,"end":758.716,"text":"過去所有的暴力案件都是因為這樣所以才關關相護的過去所有的案件都是因為我們就是發一個公文過去然後私下之後呢大家就覺得說哎呀沒有啦這個都是像我之前在外交部我們以前都在外交國防委員會之前有一個案子就是洛杉磯的案子他是被一個女生被性騷擾的然後呢最後結果是什麼就私下去講說有這件事情嘛"},{"start":759.096,"end":777.429,"text":"私下講了之後怎麼樣私下講了之後就說因為那個女生呢他聽不太懂中文啊所以這個不是故意的不是故意的利益良善就過去了這一次事件發生之後才說那個女生才看不下去說希望重啟調查林佳龍部長才說好他願意重啟調查因為有心事證然後那個人呢他現在就離那個當時幫忙護航的人他現在也離職了"},{"start":780.871,"end":786.396,"text":"是確定有這件事情嗎所以如果我們今天沒有把這件事情都攤開來講的話你如果到時候確認沒有這件事情你當然大可以你發新聞稿也好你大聲疾呼也好你都可以還他一個公道但過去就是因為我們什麼事情對於公務人員的加害我們都是默默的把他偷偷給你一個公文然後呢就無聲無息了所以才有這麼多的公務人員的霸凌事件"},{"start":805.211,"end":808.873,"text":"現在有公務人員願意出來希望我們幫他發聲我所現在講的每一個案子喔包含我在外交部喔我講國教署喔講海科會喔包含速發部今天正次今天那個速發部的正次他公開道歉他就是有罵別人混蛋"},{"start":823.42,"end":847.479,"text":"所以我今天我所講的這些東西我都有先查證過所以你不要挑戰我說我今天沒有查證我就有人給我一個資料好像我就隨便拿出來講我都已經先分析過先了解過有沒有發生類似的事情徐委員我想向你表達的是我們要挑戰你這些案件我們都會進入程序來好好的面對跟調查跟處理"},{"start":849.602,"end":876.625,"text":"我其實在看到你們來你的辦公室來含公文的時候我也希望能不能夠因為你辦公室給我能不能提供給我們更多人事實地務的資訊因為我希望能夠有更多人事因為我們要好好調查其實是需要很多人事實地務的證據我會再提供給你啊但是要在我今天質詢完畢之後啊對如果可以的話可以提供給我更多人事實地務的證據我們才能夠好好處理這件事情但我要說的還是是說"},{"start":877.285,"end":897.506,"text":"我知道你的意思但我必須要先把這件事公開之後我才能確保你不會吃案嘛因為我不敢相信任何一個部長了嘛對吧即便我跟你過去是在同一個委員會同事我也不敢去相信公務人員不會再吃案所以我必須得今天先公開出來之後"},{"start":898.527,"end":914.998,"text":"我才敢把所有東西交給你請你去調查因為7天之後你給我什麼東西我才能去評估你們到底有沒有好好調查呀因為你的辦公室的文來到我的辦公室以後我也看過我可以跟你說絕對不會吃案我可以跟你絕對不會吃案所以你現在只要告訴我說你要多久時間之內可以給我們一個答覆我們在這些資訊證據之下"},{"start":921.043,"end":929.661,"text":"絕對不會吃蛋但我要跟局委員表達我們也需要更多的資訊因為我收到的訊息就像你你這上面呈現的這些內容"},{"start":930.896,"end":954.155,"text":"謝謝錫瑋"}]}},{"id":"157816","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157816","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360cdcf9d473f2a29f9e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a10650af9c3d7560ef6a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"13:01:12 - 13:07:51","影片長度":"00:06:39","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:01:12+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:07:51+08:00","duration":399,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.00909375,"end":7.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.84721875,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.25221875,"end":34.540343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.79346875,"end":45.728468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.846593750000004,"end":50.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.63909375,"end":56.039093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.039093750000006,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.79409375,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.97596875,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.03721875000001,"end":97.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.18846875000001,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.50034375000001,"end":105.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.78659375000001,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.46034375,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.02971875,"end":127.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.90159375,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.38971875000001,"end":162.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.62159375000002,"end":166.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.40159375000002,"end":169.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.57034375,"end":166.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.03409375,"end":169.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.48971875,"end":170.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.85659375,"end":172.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.03346875,"end":173.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.16409375,"end":179.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.36159375,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.55971875,"end":187.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.70659375000002,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.80784375000002,"end":203.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.40659375,"end":188.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.44659375,"end":235.01534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.69534375,"end":205.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.29409375,"end":206.51346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.25159375,"end":242.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.82846875,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.02659375000002,"end":245.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.83221875,"end":250.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.99159375000002,"end":254.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.05409375,"end":263.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.20534375,"end":261.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.70721875000004,"end":269.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.10284375000003,"end":294.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.02721875000003,"end":294.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.39846875,"end":296.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.19971875000005,"end":305.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.47721875,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.13096875,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.27659375,"end":321.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.31034375,"end":319.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.83721875000003,"end":331.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.77221875000004,"end":333.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.94096875,"end":333.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.80159375,"end":334.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.53971875,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.69346875,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.26284375,"end":352.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.27971875000003,"end":352.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.70159375000003,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.60846875000004,"end":355.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.60409375,"end":357.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.66284375000004,"end":357.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.89909375,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.03409375,"end":360.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.94909375000003,"end":362.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.50159375000004,"end":369.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.69471875000005,"end":370.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.25159375000004,"end":370.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.67346875000004,"end":370.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.69034375,"end":370.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.97721875,"end":392.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.49284375,"end":394.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.58534375000005,"end":396.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.12096875000003,"end":396.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.72846875000005,"end":397.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.97721875,"end":398.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.05721875,"end":399.96846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.549,"end":15.118,"text":"謝謝主席 我想請一下洪部長各位好"},{"start":15.943,"end":38.679,"text":"部長好 因為從委員變成部長我們都期待你會更了解民間的聲音基層的聲音我想這是一個民意代表轉成行政官員很重要的一個部分那我在想說今天因為我們是針對勞發署北區分署的一個事件所產生的一個後續的一個專案報告那麼你在報告當中有特別提到說你之後要改進的方向包括"},{"start":39.199,"end":56.099,"text":"要把現行執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引的部分提升至法律的位階我想問一下這個部分就是執行職務遭受不法侵害的部分是指針對在民間勞動的環境還是包括公務環境"},{"start":58.027,"end":79.804,"text":"跟鄭委員報告其實這確實有兩個部分一個部分是一般勞工在一般的職場上面的部分這個勞工部分當然是歸勞工部管的也是歸職安法來管的但確實現在關於公務員公務員的部分他在法規上面他比較是屬於公務員的法庭"},{"start":79.844,"end":80.064,"text":"跟這位人說明喔"},{"start":99.226,"end":126.224,"text":"一般勞工的部分當然一定是勞動部管理解理解那勞動部下的勞動部下的公務員我們也有責任勞動部跟所屬下的公務員我們當然有責任但確實現在在那如果不是勞動部所屬的時候你們就沒有責任不是我不是說沒有責任但是我要說確實現在他們所使用的主要的法規他的法體系比較是在考試院下的這個法體系"},{"start":127.185,"end":146.583,"text":"好 那部長我想問一下因為你在擔任立法委員期間的時候你之前就曾經聽過北區分署這件事情嘛那你當時認為這個普遍性不適當的管理作為你也知道那你知道這個問題的時候可是你沒有進一步去追究你只是反應跟提醒 對不對那導致了後續"},{"start":147.904,"end":148.224,"text":"跟這位人說明"},{"start":173.098,"end":198.101,"text":"之前我是聽聞但是我聽聞了謝芬署長的不當德管那不是針對無無姓公務員的狀況普遍性不適當管理罪普遍性當然就涵蓋他的這個部分但是不是都是普遍性的這不是針對無姓公務員的案例我是有聽聞但是當時並不是有陳情人來跟我陳情或者是我手上有明確的證據因為我手上沒有明確的證據"},{"start":199.102,"end":206.728,"text":"但是有這樣的聽聞所以我當然覺得我還是必須因為因為你當時的狀態你當時也是委員那你知道這個狀態的時候你沒有很積極去做所以我們現在對於你現在擔任部長之後的時候是不是會很有擔當齁能夠去針對這個部分能夠去解決好那我們其實是有一點點質疑啦齁"},{"start":219.757,"end":220.057,"text":"行政院體系"},{"start":246.727,"end":254.585,"text":"現在在行政院如果是其他部會的目前當然會是這個還是要等到你當行政院長的時候再去處理"},{"start":257.276,"end":281.073,"text":"我不是這個意思我的意思是說現在不同的部會先去處理他的部會下﹖因為時間的關係部長我跟你講一下公務之聲靠北電台這裡面從你上來之後一個1.3萬人的粉磚已經有超過300則不同的公務體系的霸凌PO在那上面你知道這件事情嗎我有看過這個粉磚"},{"start":281.693,"end":295.658,"text":"OK你看到這本專的時候那這麼多的公務體系的時候貼在這上面的時候你是要等到你當行政院長還是你現在就開始跟行政院去處理這相關的事情或者是跨部會去處理跟鄭委員說明"},{"start":297.259,"end":320.715,"text":"我們的職安署確實在霸凌或者是相關的不法侵害上面他有累積他們一些專業所以今天這其他部會的公務人員他們可能現在還是主要適用的相關的保護法規是在考試院下面的法體系但是我們非常非常樂意提供我們在這方面的專業意見那我先跟你講行政院的"},{"start":321.914,"end":348.345,"text":"消保處我們辦公室就收到了這樣的一個澄清行政院的下面消保處就有類似的案子我直接跟你講我希望你能夠更積極的去消保處對去處理這件事情就是非常的嚴重那細節我就不講因為霸凌的樣態勞動部應該更清楚那因為時間的關係我最後問一個狀態行政院只是要研議設身心調試架"},{"start":350.791,"end":378.864,"text":"你知道這件事情嗎有看到這段時間的新聞跟討論那你支持身心調適假嗎當然我覺得對勞工從勞工的出發點來說身心調適是現在在職場上很重要的事情很重要的部分可是現在行政院的身心調適假只針對公務人員所以你這邊提到說勞工也很需要身心調適假那我希望你這邊能夠"},{"start":380.265,"end":380.305,"text":"請勞動部部長"}]}},{"id":"157803","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157803","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083609091ccc16fe9aa21e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a106288fdc86b9d8d4b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:45:57 - 13:01:05","影片長度":"00:15:08","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:45:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:01:05+08:00","duration":908,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7478437500000004,"end":3.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.87846875,"end":4.199093749999999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.6040937500000005,"end":6.257843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.10909375,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.952843750000003,"end":18.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.32346875,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.17096875,"end":24.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.719093750000003,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.714718750000003,"end":29.157218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.66346875,"end":43.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.97346875,"end":46.555343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.02784375,"end":49.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.33971875,"end":49.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.57596875,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.891593750000006,"end":58.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.127218750000004,"end":60.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.56159375,"end":62.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.55284375,"end":65.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.67471875000001,"end":66.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.07534375,"end":68.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.39159375,"end":74.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.90534375,"end":76.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.99784375,"end":80.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.06471875000001,"end":91.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.06284375,"end":95.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.91471875,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.28159375,"end":101.29784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.56784375000001,"end":102.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.91784375,"end":108.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.82409375,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.92534375000001,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.81471875000001,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.95971875,"end":135.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.53284375,"end":152.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.69909375,"end":164.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.39346875,"end":164.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.06846875000002,"end":167.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.97096875,"end":168.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.10596875000002,"end":171.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.80159375000002,"end":179.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.34471875,"end":205.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.78784375,"end":208.90971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.84221875,"end":220.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.90346875,"end":230.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.47596875000002,"end":231.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.55596875,"end":238.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.25534375,"end":262.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.95409375000003,"end":249.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.48096875000002,"end":252.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.45534375000003,"end":254.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.65659375,"end":271.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.98846875000004,"end":278.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.53596875,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.80096875000004,"end":293.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.76971875000004,"end":295.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.73159375,"end":309.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.67034375000003,"end":312.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.55159375,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.38659375000003,"end":317.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.07409375000003,"end":322.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.22096875,"end":352.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.53284375000004,"end":394.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.90596875,"end":369.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":386.73846875000004,"end":386.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.12534375,"end":403.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.00159375000004,"end":406.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.37659375000004,"end":408.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.53659375,"end":411.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.73034375000003,"end":413.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.46409375,"end":434.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.42721875,"end":436.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.78534375000004,"end":439.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.08471875000004,"end":450.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.30659375000005,"end":450.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.45846875,"end":456.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.87096875000003,"end":462.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.32159375000003,"end":462.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.76034375,"end":476.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.44596875,"end":482.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.09471875,"end":493.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.42659375000005,"end":496.81409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.76346875,"end":507.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.44096875,"end":509.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.47471875,"end":515.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.2122187499999,"end":514.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.1572187500001,"end":516.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.7265937500001,"end":516.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.04721875,"end":521.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.1772187500001,"end":531.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.28971875,"end":531.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.59346875,"end":540.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.6103437500001,"end":531.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.85784375,"end":542.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.78159375,"end":547.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.0634687500001,"end":549.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.08846875,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.1684687500001,"end":563.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.3984687500001,"end":565.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.6640937500001,"end":566.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.32221875,"end":568.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.56659375,"end":570.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.38471875,"end":573.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.1397187499999,"end":574.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.9115937500001,"end":575.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.00409375,"end":577.3584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.6284687500001,"end":578.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.1472187500001,"end":579.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.1765937499999,"end":580.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.48034375,"end":582.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.75846875,"end":583.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.5134687500001,"end":585.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.8972187500001,"end":586.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.7703437499999,"end":588.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.91784375,"end":589.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.1159687500001,"end":590.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.2465937500001,"end":593.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.18721875,"end":601.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.6753437500001,"end":611.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.52596875,"end":614.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.36971875,"end":614.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.50034375,"end":617.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.1584687500001,"end":616.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.19596875,"end":619.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.28846875,"end":622.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.9253437500001,"end":646.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.3303437500001,"end":622.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.97909375,"end":629.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.70471875,"end":629.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.9678437499999,"end":649.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.14471875,"end":656.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.02534375,"end":665.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.46284375,"end":666.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.9140937500001,"end":666.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.96471875,"end":667.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.0322187500001,"end":670.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":667.1672187500001,"end":667.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.4197187500001,"end":673.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":674.74409375,"end":675.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.4697187500001,"end":675.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.1615937500001,"end":678.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.2534687500001,"end":683.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.3503437500001,"end":684.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.0928437500002,"end":684.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.5990937500001,"end":687.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.2778437500001,"end":688.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.3784687500001,"end":693.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.8803437500001,"end":694.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.4540937500001,"end":702.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.24596875,"end":706.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.7222187500001,"end":709.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.84409375,"end":711.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.4640937500001,"end":715.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.6028437500001,"end":718.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.80096875,"end":716.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.1297187499999,"end":718.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.48409375,"end":719.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.3784687500001,"end":722.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.7365937500001,"end":736.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.9553437500001,"end":727.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":727.27596875,"end":727.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":731.0390937500001,"end":731.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":736.0847187500001,"end":738.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.08846875,"end":744.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.2140937500001,"end":753.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.15784375,"end":755.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.28409375,"end":758.5790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.0515937499999,"end":767.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.3328437499999,"end":776.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.8884687500001,"end":776.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.92221875,"end":777.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":777.49596875,"end":778.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.5759687500001,"end":781.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.47846875,"end":784.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":784.7690937500001,"end":785.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":786.1359687500001,"end":788.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.2578437500001,"end":789.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.29159375,"end":790.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.3759687500001,"end":789.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.4853437500001,"end":793.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":792.6497187500001,"end":797.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":797.2903437500001,"end":806.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":806.4365937500002,"end":808.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.6853437500001,"end":809.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":809.8115937500002,"end":812.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":812.52846875,"end":816.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":816.32534375,"end":817.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":817.3884687500001,"end":818.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":818.43471875,"end":820.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":820.4934687500001,"end":825.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.77159375,"end":823.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.16784375,"end":830.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":828.3234687500001,"end":829.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":829.53846875,"end":831.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.55096875,"end":833.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":831.25971875,"end":831.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":832.62659375,"end":834.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":834.6684687500001,"end":838.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":834.75284375,"end":834.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":834.76971875,"end":834.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":834.7865937500001,"end":834.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.52846875,"end":840.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":840.9965937500001,"end":872.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.00034375,"end":845.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.36221875,"end":850.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.78409375,"end":850.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.91909375,"end":850.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":872.5190937500001,"end":905.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":876.9909687500001,"end":877.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.6315937500001,"end":881.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.6553437500002,"end":892.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":903.23159375,"end":904.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.5390937500001,"end":906.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":906.5559687500001,"end":908.27721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.999,"end":5.743,"text":"好謝謝張偉部長如果好就請部長了"},{"start":13.154,"end":31.449,"text":"部長部長好部長辛苦了你以為說命代打上陣但我沒相信你一定可以在勞動部裡封出一支漂亮的權威打漂亮的權威打前面要再加改革改革的權威打也要肯定你的勇氣在這個事件之後"},{"start":35.393,"end":55.972,"text":"來接這個部長,所以要打出一個漂亮的全壘打,漂亮改革的全壘打。我想大家關注的就一件事情,就是11月19號北分署的調查報告。我想剛剛很多委員都有給你垂詢過了,但你的答覆我還是希望要很明確,因為畢竟已經兩個禮拜了。"},{"start":59.181,"end":75.135,"text":"不管怎麼樣卓院長也特別在那個當下只是要一個星期所以我是覺得依照你我們過去同事這樣的一個認識跟知道你做事情的積極度我想應該"},{"start":76.997,"end":77.778,"text":"跟那個留言報告齁其實可以不要加那個嗎?好請說"},{"start":103.104,"end":130.069,"text":"其實我們非常知道現在大家對外界最勞動部最關注的其實就是重啟調查的調查報告從上個禮拜我們開始做這個重啟調查的作業準備到這個禮拜開始實質的訪談調查包括相關的報告的撰寫到下禮拜出來我可以跟委員說其實這裡面沒有一天待滿每天都有進度而且其實是盯得很緊的但確實在這個案件上面涉及到的層面跟要訪談的對象比較廣"},{"start":132.47,"end":134.518,"text":"所以我們也增加了一些約詢的"},{"start":136.578,"end":164.957,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":165.097,"end":193.436,"text":"坦白說既然行政院邀請你來當勞動部的部長我想也應該要給你有一些緩衝跟足夠的時間但是我坦白說那是卓院長下令的一星期其實是有某種程度的問題存在但是那也是展現一個破例也不希望說我們在公部門體系有這樣的霸凌的事件"},{"start":195.817,"end":217.586,"text":"但是既然霸凌不是一件兩件不是一天兩天去聯繫起來的事情怎麼有可能說什麼就一個星期內調查完成這個我就覺得原本就有問題的存在了啦因為尤其是北分署這個案件他真的目前看到的狀況他真的看起來不是只是這個謝前分署長對於這個吳姓公務員"},{"start":221.943,"end":238.028,"text":"各案式的作為甚至是在整個北分署裡面其實是一個普遍性的不當管理的作為所以他確實牽涉到的層面比較廣那我們就也在這個部分上讓行政院都有了解所以在溝通期程上面都讓他們知道"},{"start":238.308,"end":261.897,"text":"好啦我知道我也願意給部長時間啦反正這種事情調查原本就是要非常公正公平公開然後詳細的完整性的他才有辦法去呈現出來讓社會大眾可以去大家來做檢視嘛對不對要進得起檢視就更加像現在那個狀況在發生嘛但是部長你看啦從北分署開始海科館機關署樹花部"},{"start":262.737,"end":275.748,"text":"工部門的這個職場一直在傳出霸凌的事件尤其幾乎都是上對下的管理過當的問題幾乎是這樣所以部長你認為這個職場霸凌的事件臺灣是不是應該有一個專門的法規來進行嚇阻"},{"start":278.67,"end":279.55,"text":"執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引"},{"start":295.856,"end":321.77,"text":"其實委員建議的沒有錯現在我們在職安法裡面的這個第6條之3其實的定義是非常非常寬鬆的所以在直接操作的執行上會有很多界定上面的問題所以現在我們當然馬上就在在在做這個資產防治霸凌防治法制化的工作那其實現在禮拜一的時候其實就邀專家學者來討論"},{"start":323.511,"end":351.86,"text":"不管是現在有些人提議是要專法或者是要專章我坦白說我自己也覺得恐怕不是只是單修那個第6條之2或第6條之3單一條就可以解決這個事情這是一個蠻大的修法工程但是至於是要走專法還是專章或者什麼這個事情我們我是持開放的態度但現在還在跟專家學的討論中但是絕對不會我認為絕對不會只是修那一條而已因為那絕對是不夠的就機制建立來說一定是不夠的"},{"start":352.96,"end":382.066,"text":"對阿所以當時責任法通過之後大家非常高興好像好像什麼事情都一念而解了齁那其實回過頭來再檢視這個法律尤其針對霸凌的這定義阿坦白講也很難透過這個法律去明確的目前的法規目前的法條阿所以這個就是要來討論要來修正嘛齁那但是有一些啦齁有一些公部門有一連串的這個霸凌事件其實你你我們可以察覺到這些相關的單位人有一定有異常的狀態"},{"start":382.786,"end":384.606,"text":"但是當時為什麼都沒有?"},{"start":407.432,"end":409.575,"text":"當時這樣的離職率這麼嚴重了為什麼貴部都不清楚"},{"start":414.582,"end":438.43,"text":"所以這個質疑已有定某個是可以參考的一些依據但怎麼都沒有去使用所以有時候也不是只有法律定好修好完整了我當然期待部長可以定出一個領先全球最好的一個這個防範這個職場霸凌的相關的法律出來對不對但是有時候法律定了如果不照這樣做不這樣依循的話定哪裡定的"},{"start":439.198,"end":461.558,"text":"就是在本部長裡面看到確實那個離職率而且甚至很多的我們公務人員他其實是就算是降調他都要走這當然是一個非常非常異常的狀況而且人員這麼大所以到底為什麼當時這個狀況人事的變動這麼大這麼異常沒有有提出更進一步的示警然後大家有一個比較從更上位的部分去解決我覺得這部分當然需要檢討對"},{"start":462.879,"end":482.337,"text":"好了我還是期待部長可能就是要辛苦一點的短期之內看這個秀娃的一個範圍跟方向可能要給委員會來做一些參考大家共同一起來討論好不好最後最後一件事情部長知道EAP嗎?我知道員工協助方案嘛對不對那部長對這個事情有掌握嗎?"},{"start":483.157,"end":507.004,"text":"有,其實我們也是檢視了北分署EAP的狀況所以才會覺得其實可能只有EAP不夠所以現在才規劃了一個可以讓大家去外面找諮商資源的目前這個專案部長所講EAP不夠是指怎樣不夠?能不能明確講一點?我指的是說因為我去了北分署知道北分署現在整體的狀況恐怕EAP是不夠的我說因為北分署是一個蠻特殊的狀態"},{"start":509.524,"end":530.154,"text":"所以你現在是講說依照現在北部署的狀態其實EAP是不夠了來協助這些員工嘛對不對那你講這樣我就更擔心了我給部長看一張表好不好這個齁你覺得一個EAP對員工來講應該是要多少的這個預算規模才算合理我直接表上就把表秀出來給部長看嘛"},{"start":531.414,"end":547.197,"text":"是我們預算也就不講了講實際原額嘛你看勞動部是280員工協商是45萬然後花署221 23萬這個比例大家可以看差不多的人數當然減了50幾位啦但是經費是減了一半以上"},{"start":548.539,"end":563.435,"text":"那再來 北溫署 75 剩下不到老化署的三分之一但是他的經費好像又一半多一點點再來 投足苗 82 14.5 然後中章投 117 更少了"},{"start":564.651,"end":564.671,"text":"部長﹗"},{"start":587.799,"end":609.495,"text":"你的評審﹚你的預估﹚你的經驗跟委員報告我們本部的員工協助方案是本部與所屬的就剛才有秀出來的這幾個單位我們是共同的一個員工協助方案那今年度我們是編了總共是180萬那明年我們是編230萬"},{"start":612.557,"end":630.867,"text":"你沒事全被包給 全包 全包嘛對不對 全包 對阿 全包好 那一個平均是多少 全包那就更糟糕了喔 那個 劉遠其實我即便是230萬啦 坦白說我看到這個數字我都覺得是不足夠的啦 是嗎我覺得這沒有什麼好"},{"start":631.687,"end":646.119,"text":"好去找我其實就是不夠的但是我們當然會要來爭取更多的資源用在這個地方尤其是勞動部現在面對這麼大就是說內外的壓力的狀況之下很多員工其實在心理上面精神上面的張力特別大對"},{"start":647,"end":672.638,"text":"部長我要特別提到你有帶頭作用貴部有帶頭作用這個事情如果處理不好我追這個事情只有兩年我是上次總統我到五院還有各部會所以在員工的協助方案預算編不夠的沒有編的還是什麼放在什麼地方的我絕對不會放過我絕對會處理到底然後你現在這個是預算的原額跟實際的原額你沒有包括你的約聘顧"},{"start":683.503,"end":702.032,"text":"報告委員我們平均算起來每個人差不多一百一個人差不多五百其實跟委員報告本部的員工協助方案編列的預算是比其他的部會都是最高的"},{"start":703.808,"end":703.928,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":722.802,"end":724.182,"text":"再看一個表表就好時間到了"},{"start":745.268,"end":753.251,"text":"勞工署你看所屬員工協助方案的人士109還有500多位110還有500多位11下降4261213148198這個是一個很奇怪的一個曲線走向"},{"start":759.347,"end":784.978,"text":"這個地方發生問題這個地方員工使用這個協助方案竟然是急速的下降是百分之六十百分之七十在下降那顯然員工協助方案在這個地方到底有沒有發揮起這個作用怎麼會剛好這兩年下降的如此之快有沒有掌握還是只有電話打去了其他都不關他們的事情了各位報告我們主要是用在那個次數的啦0800的一個次數"},{"start":789.569,"end":808.866,"text":"這個就次數阿方案的人次就等同次數阿是跟委員報告喔是這樣子的因為我們有去洽詢那個專業心理團隊齁他們從112年開始統計方式改變他們把那個0800打回去問預約紀錄跟確定行程這些拿掉因為他統計方式改變所以他打掉什麼對不起預約"},{"start":809.867,"end":838.107,"text":"就是他們0800的專線除了過去三年除了統計打進去的之外他連那個打回來問這個員工預約紀錄跟確定行程的限數都在前三年的統計裡面從112年他把這個統計數字拿掉所以你要跟我講這個表格算是正常的因為把那兩項拿掉之後下降這樣算是正常不是你跟我講這樣你這樣算不是很奇怪是因為統計方式改變這樣統計方式改變之後所以他這樣下降算是正常"},{"start":839.571,"end":861.368,"text":"那個 對不對我想剛剛同仁解釋的事情是說這個變化的原因啦但我不會去說這個整體我把它叫做是正常啦可是這個變化解釋比較是這個變化的原因啦是因為統計方式的這個登記的變化這樣子可是整體來說跟委員報告我也是看了相關的數據以後才我們上禮拜才做了一個決定說"},{"start":862.569,"end":877.58,"text":"如果以現在的這個服務的能量跟方法恐怕不足以支應目前北分署的同仁現在這個階段的需求所以才做了一個專案的特別處理這樣好部長簡單簡單二要我們就做事情就明快一些第一個"},{"start":878.4,"end":905.167,"text":"趕快檢視嘛我們的員工協助方案這樣到底夠不夠員工協助方案是要事前接觸員工啦對不是事後才再啟動要怎麼協助員工當然對好所以我們就全面檢視嘛好尤其是勞動部與生作者嘛對不對而且要帶同讓民間的帶頭一起來嘛所以是不是在本週五前提出這個員工協助方案的改善方案給委員會做參考可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":906.645,"end":907.047,"text":"謝謝劉建國委員 謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"157762","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157762","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083609855ebdbf3998186e45dd5fe0ad21242f169037e582a320606b889c0fce998ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:23:27 - 10:37:27","影片長度":"00:14:00","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:23:27+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:37:27+08:00","duration":840,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.38034375,"end":6.2915937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.46034375,"end":8.114093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.51346875,"end":19.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.01534375,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.36971875,"end":20.500343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.500343750000003,"end":20.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.297218750000003,"end":27.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.68909375,"end":27.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.75659375,"end":27.773468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.33034375,"end":28.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.34721875,"end":45.947843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.55096875,"end":51.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.41096875,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.15284375,"end":71.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.31534375000001,"end":78.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.95221875,"end":72.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.60096875,"end":85.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.82346875,"end":89.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.90721875,"end":105.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.36471875000001,"end":105.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.19159375000001,"end":108.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.06034375,"end":113.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.33409375000001,"end":114.02159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.02159375000001,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.03846875,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.17346875000001,"end":114.37596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.37596875000001,"end":114.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.42659375000001,"end":114.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.69659375,"end":124.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.37159375,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.75971875,"end":116.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.76284375,"end":123.21846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.23096875,"end":137.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.35971875,"end":145.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.41034375,"end":137.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.02534375000002,"end":153.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.99034375000002,"end":172.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.67534375000002,"end":170.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.76346875000002,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.97409375,"end":184.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.52534375000002,"end":186.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.44909375,"end":192.01784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.76034375,"end":192.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.96284375000002,"end":201.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.40034375000002,"end":215.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.40221875,"end":224.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.85221875000002,"end":229.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.96971875000003,"end":260.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.99221875,"end":249.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.60221875,"end":261.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.27284375,"end":262.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.04471875,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.02721875000003,"end":276.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.10159375,"end":278.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.14346875,"end":280.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.91534375000003,"end":281.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.13034375,"end":282.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.14721875000004,"end":282.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.43409375000005,"end":282.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.78846875,"end":282.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.82221875,"end":282.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.88971875000004,"end":282.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.97409375,"end":283.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.12596875,"end":283.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.19346875,"end":283.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.21034375,"end":283.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.22721875,"end":283.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.53096875,"end":284.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.16346875,"end":296.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.44034375,"end":298.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.42721875,"end":301.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.94159375000004,"end":302.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.02596875,"end":306.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.56534375,"end":311.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.25721875,"end":308.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.79284375000003,"end":309.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.68721875,"end":311.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.39159375,"end":311.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.96534375000005,"end":313.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.31096875000003,"end":324.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.45346875,"end":322.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.53721875,"end":325.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.92096875000004,"end":334.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.27846875,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.52721875000003,"end":337.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.34909375,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.42034375000003,"end":374.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.97659375,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.51659375,"end":389.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.70846875,"end":395.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.64409375,"end":402.53346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.42846875000004,"end":400.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.61346875000004,"end":410.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.02596875,"end":414.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.34159375,"end":416.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.92784375,"end":417.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.13034375,"end":417.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.88971875000004,"end":418.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.64909375,"end":426.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.12159375000005,"end":420.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.76596875,"end":427.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.48721875,"end":430.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.11159375000005,"end":429.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.44471875000005,"end":432.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.70596875,"end":432.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.97596875000005,"end":434.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.69721875000005,"end":439.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.91159375,"end":445.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.73346875000004,"end":446.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.03721875,"end":452.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.19221875000005,"end":457.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.37721875000005,"end":458.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.23346875000004,"end":461.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.88284375,"end":461.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.49034375,"end":462.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.96284375000005,"end":463.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.17784375,"end":464.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.19471875000005,"end":472.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.15534375000004,"end":491.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.30846875000003,"end":494.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.80159375000005,"end":497.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.77596875,"end":506.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.78846875000005,"end":499.53096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.65721875,"end":501.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.12534375,"end":504.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.48784375,"end":508.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.06534375,"end":512.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.3559687500001,"end":517.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.35096875,"end":517.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.9753437500001,"end":517.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.9922187500001,"end":526.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.91471875,"end":531.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.2222187500001,"end":533.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.4665937500001,"end":537.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.35221875,"end":537.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.19596875,"end":537.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.21284375,"end":537.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.29721875,"end":537.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.3815937500001,"end":537.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.75284375,"end":555.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.42159375,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.16784375,"end":559.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.3359687500001,"end":573.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.7978437500001,"end":577.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.2022187499999,"end":580.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.3328437499999,"end":582.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9484687500001,"end":590.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.2890937500001,"end":591.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.9765937500001,"end":601.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.1528437500001,"end":597.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.8784687500001,"end":599.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.6753437500001,"end":601.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.6922187499999,"end":601.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.74284375,"end":601.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.84409375,"end":603.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.99596875,"end":603.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.31221875,"end":603.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.7847187500001,"end":604.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.00409375,"end":609.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.6453437499999,"end":605.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.9778437500001,"end":610.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.19721875,"end":610.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.3659687500001,"end":610.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.43346875,"end":610.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.83409375,"end":614.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.54659375,"end":617.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.88784375,"end":621.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.38534375,"end":624.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.94596875,"end":638.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.00284375,"end":639.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.0365937500001,"end":654.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.0534687500001,"end":640.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.0847187500001,"end":658.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.79721875,"end":667.0828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.17596875,"end":665.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.15034375,"end":668.7197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.25971875,"end":679.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.6840937500001,"end":681.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.8484687499999,"end":685.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.46846875,"end":689.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.2778437500001,"end":688.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.47159375,"end":698.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.2803437500002,"end":701.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.6853437500001,"end":703.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.49471875,"end":707.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.1015937500001,"end":709.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.6753437500001,"end":719.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.6440937500001,"end":728.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.7397187500001,"end":731.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":730.8872187500001,"end":737.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.9240937500001,"end":742.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.37471875,"end":744.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.4209687500002,"end":744.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.6528437500001,"end":752.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.3984687500001,"end":754.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.03534375,"end":758.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.07284375,"end":758.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.08971875,"end":758.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.27534375,"end":758.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.8659687500001,"end":758.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.96721875,"end":759.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.0178437500001,"end":759.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.0347187500001,"end":789.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.30846875,"end":797.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.4209687500002,"end":801.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.09971875,"end":803.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":803.82096875,"end":806.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.01034375,"end":813.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.4865937500001,"end":810.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.79409375,"end":819.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.26159375,"end":819.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":820.2234687500002,"end":820.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.24034375,"end":837.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.3984687500001,"end":834.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.0390937500001,"end":840.96284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.611,"end":7.973,"text":"主席好,我們有請我們的洪部長。部長好,現在還習慣嗎?"},{"start":24.652,"end":44.521,"text":"就像剛才委員說,其實我知道我沒有蜜月期我想請問,部長你11月25號上任10月27號發的這個業務報告時程表上面就說資料在12月3號中午彙整給你所以你一直都知道12月4號以後才會排勞動部的報告是嗎跟邱鎮軍報告當然因為"},{"start":52.455,"end":54.947,"text":"我們很清楚知道國會的監督是無縫接軌的"},{"start":57.256,"end":85.168,"text":"所以當時其實我部內同仁也讓我知道說應該要盡快的來跟我做業務報告的細節那因為上週真的是我們大部分的心力跟時間都花在處理大家非常高度的法令案上面你如果是12月2號排報告的話你要員工12月3號中午給你資料就不合理那你當初在6日要主管跟你匯報的時候就不是因為我們召委排案啊"},{"start":86.689,"end":107.487,"text":"是想要立威結果火燒到自己嗎?我完全沒有要立威的意思。我的意思是說你明知道是4號嘛,4號才到勞動部來報告,可是你叫他們要2號,你跟他們講說2號要排報告,3號給你資料嘛。那個邱鎮軍"},{"start":109.184,"end":123.718,"text":"我們原本是希望說第一個因為知道立法院會監督我的意思我知道你很想趕快把事情做好對所以你的做法不要牽扯到我們這個未還委員會的排案的這個這個議程嘛對不對不要把責任推到這邊來"},{"start":124.999,"end":138.178,"text":"所以當天禮拜四就像剛剛蘇委員有講其實禮拜四的時候我跟蘇委員確認禮拜一不會來排我到立法院以後我其實有跟蘇委員打電話有跟他致謝所以給我們"},{"start":139.72,"end":158.155,"text":"我們召委給你的時間是夠的嘛對不對他也沒有急著在禮拜一就給你排我跟蘇召委有講說也謝謝他給我一個相對比較充裕的時間可以來做相關的準備我覺得部長你還是要注意一下啦就是你上行下效在樹立典範齁把連續上班合理化"},{"start":158.815,"end":173.041,"text":"那我就用你自己在11月20號質詢勞動部的話來問你來請教你你要勞動部怎麼去做勞檢這個部分我請你們自己拿捏好那再來我想"},{"start":175.031,"end":191.79,"text":"你們你你你今天會發生這種狀況你們的側翼你們的網軍要多溝通一下不要到處放火讓你這個好好做事情可以嗎因為這個事情都是他們先燒出來我們才會才會有這麼多人去注意這件事情"},{"start":193.451,"end":215.233,"text":"就是在這個過程的溝通上面我說我是謝謝所有人有給我多一點的時間來去做相關的準備的那卓榮泰院長給你的第一個任務是重新調查謝毅榮的案子吧對那卓院長說給你一周調查那在11月20號我們就要求勞動部針對謝毅榮的案子兩周內要給出新的調查報告"},{"start":216.474,"end":224.414,"text":"可是就在期限到昨天嘛可是你昨天給我們委員的這份報告裡面就是調查報告還沒完成無可奉告"},{"start":226.38,"end":248.042,"text":"如果你是還是立委的時候你覺得你這樣你可以接受嗎跟邱委員報告齁在重啟調查的方面其實我們上週我在我一上任之後其實就我們就在處理重啟這個調查小組的準備工作尤其是我們也檢討上一份報告為什麼引起社會高度的爭議"},{"start":249.063,"end":278.323,"text":"那這個禮拜目前目前到甚至到現在目前從調查報告也正在訪談也增加訪談的對象那我們希望能夠把它做得更周延所以目前會是在下週所以你是覺得卓院長給你時間太短了是這樣嗎我們有一直持續有跟行政院溝通所以這個時間點行政院也知道目前也同意的那北分署的事件不單只是霸凌那還有我們就業安定基金的挪用謝宜榮送禮請客的這個錢那我們政風查得怎麼樣"},{"start":279.184,"end":279.464,"text":"跟邱鎮軍說明"},{"start":286.226,"end":312.279,"text":"目前是針對經費的使用包括採購跟標案的問題現在檢調因為報告裡面都沒說啊現在這個檢調是有在已經在開始在查那我們會全力的配合所以所以不是說謝宜龍手上還有黑資料要報讓你們不敢查當然不是我們沒有我們完全你的沒有什麼好我不知道謝宜龍會說什麼不能查也不能辦會不會這樣子"},{"start":314.366,"end":335.118,"text":"我們當然完全不會考慮現在謝榮芬署長現在對外講的這些話那這個禮拜五可以給嗎?這個報告這禮拜五可以給嗎?下禮拜我們會把重啟調查報告應該會在下禮拜公布出來禮拜幾?跟大家說明我希望盡快可是因為現在我們正在我們正在訪談中部長你在節目上說未完委員會就"},{"start":343.763,"end":369.881,"text":"聽說北分署的鬼故事很多你還很委屈跟大家說你不是吃案你是因為沒有行政權只能建議去了解我只能說民進黨的不分區真的很好當也枉費你當了立法委員這部分你沒有繼續追下去真的是非常遺憾才會造成今天這樣的一個事情那麼現在你是部長了你之前說你收到很多基層跟你反映"},{"start":371.562,"end":395.22,"text":"這個勞發署北分署有打假卡的問題現在怎麼解決這部分分兩個部分第一個事情是確實在我們勞動部下會有一些比較是越僱人員他是適用勞基法的我們會要求絕對按照勞基法不能夠違法加班上面該怎麼記就怎麼記第二個是針對公務人員的正式公務人員的部分確實還有一個加班上限我也已經要求我們相關的主管"},{"start":396.664,"end":397.765,"text":"那你說勞動部高層也很多像謝宜龍這樣的問題那你都知道"},{"start":415.373,"end":420.657,"text":"哪些人有這種狀況?勞動部高層有很多像謝宜龍這樣的一個問題那你都知道是誰?誰有這種狀況?我之前看網路上講的嘛還是查到哪裡就可以說到哪裡?"},{"start":434.987,"end":463.269,"text":"我應該沒有說勞動部的高層也很多像憲勇這樣問題但是我要說的是只要有涉及到不法或涉及到問題的我們絕對都會面對問題好那再來我們陳世昌代理署長說外界說陳義隆辦公室花的145萬元那其實只用了救安基金的39000元那我在這邊講的是不管用了多少救安基金是可以這樣用的嗎"},{"start":464.246,"end":491.278,"text":"跟邱鎮軍報告我這邊其實也謝謝你有一個時間讓我說明目前現在當然在外界所謂說的145萬其實在144.6萬這部分的這個綠美化新創本部的這個綠美化工作確實我們經過確認以後他不包括謝永芬署長的自己的辦公室他比較主要是一些公共空間的綠美化但是我要說的是就我們查上去現在大家所謂爭議的那些軌道燈"},{"start":492.498,"end":517.312,"text":"這些軌道燈的確是用小額採購的方式是用勞發基金、就案基金來支付的我認為這是非常非常不妥當的、不能接受的事情這不是金額大小的問題你們都用小額採購那是不是為了規避上網招標的這個金額然後這樣比較好給你們的可以比較容易照顧到你們自己的人"},{"start":518.393,"end":526.749,"text":"謝芬署長他在他辦公室裡面裝了軌道燈為了去照他的職務這件事情我是很不能接受的"},{"start":527.984,"end":554.722,"text":"用小額採購不管是三萬塊還是三十萬目前查起來大概三萬九千塊看起來金額好像不大但也用到了救安基金的錢這也是我們不能接受的所以我希望部長你既然你今天在這邊這樣講希望你能夠把這件事情做一個很好的一個處理當然該送檢調該送證封你都不要手懶檢調現在已經在相關的查查了我們絕對全力配合"},{"start":555.262,"end":560.127,"text":"那我在想就是就案基金餘額大概429億那勞動部辦過這個演唱會花了356萬裝修會議室2250萬修外牆2699萬買咖啡豆22.8萬清垃圾308萬蓋警衛室758萬都可以這樣用嗎?"},{"start":579.621,"end":600.81,"text":"還有楊網軍也花了253萬跟委員說明我其實上週其實就有要求救安基金致用的檢討了我們確實發現裡面有部分的項目是不合宜的這媒體隨便查一下就80萬會讓社會觀感不好的但是也並不是所有現在媒體上面列出來所有的項目都是有問題我想也讓我也知道但是確實裡面是有部分的項目"},{"start":601.87,"end":605.131,"text":"你現在開始查了嗎?從哪裡開始查?從許民村部長還是在之前?我們沒有分從什麼地方,只要有問題我們就查。那什麼時候會有結果?"},{"start":619.162,"end":638.032,"text":"現在我們的做法會是當然個案如果不合一的項目我們希望能夠做個案的停損就機制面我們必須把機制面給強化所以現在也邀集一些這方面的專家的外部專家的委員我們要把機制如果還有疏漏的地方這個把關機制有疏漏的地方要補上"},{"start":639.153,"end":668.175,"text":"因為我們現在正在做這件事情大家都覺得是金庫其他部會都想要挖來挖你們這邊的錢當初林佳龍部長當交通部長的時候他就有提到就業安就業安基金要撥3億3億來提升旅行業者的數位能力那你們現在只要我知道你們現在要找第三方外部的專家來檢討強化就業安基就業安定這個基金的用途把關機制對嘛那你們的外部專家"},{"start":669.476,"end":679.202,"text":"我覺得在霸凌這個霸凌案的時候用利益良善來形容謝宜龍你現在要找的第三方會不會變成到時候變成利益良善圖利共犯"},{"start":682.522,"end":706.961,"text":"外部專家當然都會有他的專業所謂的外部是在編制以外嘛對不對對那但是還是你們的人啊對不對我希望部長你這個部分啊你一定要客觀一點把這事情做好希望能夠避免這樣的事情發生可以嗎因為你只要客觀還要專業就會碰到局系的人那賴慶哲有給你總統有給你上房保鮮嗎"},{"start":709.794,"end":728.533,"text":"有嗎?我想從行政院當時邀請我到我知道現在社會大眾對我上任的期待都是要改革這段時間包括有很多基層的員工反映給我們的資訊也是希望我改革所以改革是不可能不走的路"},{"start":729.913,"end":749.18,"text":"這跟誰交代我沒有關係因為時間的問題我最後再問你就是說你在2023年10月1號就說你會支持消防員組工會也會支持有罷工權那現在你是勞動部長你什麼時候要修法剛剛其實有跟其他委員報告過其實關於這個公務員組工會的議題"},{"start":753.444,"end":759.193,"text":"的確現在主要的法規權者看法規權看起來是在勞權團體也恢復齊天的架那當時你也說你會轉達我想這些問題都是你之前講過的話我希望"},{"start":768.948,"end":796.699,"text":"你能夠記得你之前講過的話然後好好的來處理剛剛你講說要時間你是已經講說要時間但我不認為兩個月三個月但是我希望你盡快至少也不能拖到半年因為你是部長你有權力我覺得你應該要好好的把你說過的話把它落實確實我現在是勞動部長所以關於公務員組公會的議題裡面比方說比較沒有爭議的"},{"start":798.444,"end":818.734,"text":"接受權跟協商權這部分這比較沒有爭議的部分比較有共識的部分但我們怎麼權利來跟考試院一起來協助來給大家保障但就像我在這份在這個在這個訪問裡面其實就講到確實現在罷工權的部分社會上面是比較高度爭議的"},{"start":820.547,"end":836.997,"text":"那我希望你部長你趕快把這事情釐清該處理的問題當然要探討的問題會發生的狀況也會有很多希望你把它想清楚把它做好來不要到時候倉促的我也不希望你們倉促推這種法案出來但我希望你們做得完善一點好不好謝謝好謝謝邱委員謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"157756","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157756","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360cd9da40206149981e45dd5fe0ad21242f169037e582a32068dabc12a4db4132a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"10:10:22 - 10:23:15","影片長度":"00:12:53","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:10:22+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:23:15+08:00","duration":773,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.84471875,"end":5.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.910968750000002,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.653468750000002,"end":20.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.770343750000002,"end":22.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.15409375,"end":24.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.73596875,"end":27.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.60471875,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.87034375,"end":30.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.777218750000003,"end":32.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.07659375,"end":34.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.95784375,"end":44.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.783468750000004,"end":46.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.85909375,"end":47.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.70284375,"end":52.900343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.946593750000005,"end":55.094093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.43596875,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.41034375,"end":58.502843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.10596875,"end":71.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.126593750000005,"end":64.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.34471875,"end":71.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.95221875,"end":78.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":87.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.95034375,"end":84.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.51096875,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.50721875,"end":112.55346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.56596875000001,"end":114.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.48971875000001,"end":117.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.67534375000001,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.26159375,"end":123.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.70784375000001,"end":124.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.90596875000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.22659375,"end":126.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.69471875,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.52971875,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.23784375,"end":138.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.85346875000002,"end":137.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.33409375000002,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.35096875000002,"end":139.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.60409375,"end":140.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.62096875,"end":139.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.76846875,"end":141.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.69221875,"end":147.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.09659375,"end":150.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.52221875,"end":162.53721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.04096875000002,"end":153.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.90971875,"end":155.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.90471875,"end":161.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.76096875000002,"end":162.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.53721875000002,"end":162.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.58784375000002,"end":162.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.10659375,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.16971875000002,"end":169.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.94534375,"end":171.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.71284375000002,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.05784375000002,"end":182.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.21346875,"end":186.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.38596875000002,"end":189.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.45284375,"end":191.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.59596875000003,"end":197.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.76471875000001,"end":192.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.86534375000002,"end":196.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.89471875,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.08846875,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.02034375000002,"end":203.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.86409375000002,"end":204.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.58971875,"end":205.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.63596875000002,"end":208.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.52159375000002,"end":208.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.87596875000003,"end":209.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.41596875000002,"end":211.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.96409375000002,"end":213.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.49971875,"end":214.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.39409375000002,"end":215.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.89596875,"end":217.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.38096875000002,"end":218.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.62971875000002,"end":219.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.69721875000002,"end":219.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.01346875000002,"end":220.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.31284375,"end":222.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.32971875,"end":224.92409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.52784375000002,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.53596875000002,"end":226.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.06721875000002,"end":227.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.87721875000003,"end":231.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.49284375000002,"end":233.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.07034375,"end":235.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.33159375000002,"end":237.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.00221875000003,"end":242.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.50346875000002,"end":243.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.41471875000002,"end":246.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.89971875,"end":247.30034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.97534375,"end":251.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.16909375,"end":254.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.77596875,"end":264.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.58034375,"end":266.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.53784375000004,"end":274.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.41846875000005,"end":284.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.30284375,"end":291.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.31971875,"end":288.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.89284375,"end":290.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.83346875,"end":294.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.38159375000004,"end":295.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.76534375,"end":296.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.98034375000003,"end":305.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.36721875,"end":315.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.50909375000003,"end":319.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.50409375000004,"end":320.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.07784375,"end":336.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.56909375000004,"end":338.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.44659375000003,"end":339.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.39971875000003,"end":344.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.37784375,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.73596875000004,"end":350.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.37284375,"end":352.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.54534375000003,"end":358.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.21971875,"end":363.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.26596875,"end":360.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.58221875000004,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.52284375000005,"end":363.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.63659375000003,"end":366.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.59409375,"end":370.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.84284375000004,"end":367.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.27721875000003,"end":368.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.67784375,"end":376.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.36034375,"end":378.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.81159375000004,"end":381.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.08534375000005,"end":383.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.70096875,"end":386.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.01284375,"end":386.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.17721875,"end":390.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.02471875000003,"end":394.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.56409375000004,"end":396.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.18846875,"end":400.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.60971875,"end":406.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.28846875000005,"end":404.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.11096875000004,"end":406.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.38096875,"end":410.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.59971875,"end":416.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.65409375,"end":414.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.84784375000004,"end":417.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.67034375000003,"end":418.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.53096875,"end":422.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.18846875,"end":426.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.54659375,"end":430.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.57534375,"end":432.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.88721875000005,"end":450.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.32346875,"end":455.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.44096875,"end":455.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.06096875000003,"end":456.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.36034375,"end":461.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.68471875,"end":463.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.48596875000004,"end":464.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.07659375000003,"end":468.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.17721875,"end":473.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.48471875,"end":472.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.22284375000004,"end":474.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.04971875,"end":474.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.65284375000005,"end":478.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.71971875,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.73659375000005,"end":481.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.64784375000005,"end":482.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.81221875000006,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.55471875,"end":486.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.42346875000004,"end":488.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.97596875000005,"end":490.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.63784375000006,"end":494.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.82721875000004,"end":494.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.56096875000003,"end":498.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.51784375000005,"end":505.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.09909375,"end":513.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.22909375,"end":514.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.41034375,"end":520.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.1984687500001,"end":533.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.24721875,"end":534.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.09096875,"end":534.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.22159375,"end":536.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.2722187500001,"end":535.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.65596875,"end":538.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.2209687500001,"end":545.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.8359687500001,"end":548.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9622187500001,"end":550.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.6540937500001,"end":549.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.10534375,"end":556.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.83846875,"end":561.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.79534375,"end":564.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.3984687500001,"end":566.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.90034375,"end":569.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.67221875,"end":568.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.14034375,"end":570.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.10221875,"end":576.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.6584687500001,"end":587.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.4497187500001,"end":591.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.27596875,"end":593.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.95909375,"end":595.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.0265937500001,"end":597.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.0434687500001,"end":595.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.60409375,"end":599.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.61221875,"end":602.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.91596875,"end":603.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.9028437500001,"end":605.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.53971875,"end":606.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.6028437500001,"end":607.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.76721875,"end":609.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.6359687500001,"end":611.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.2265937500001,"end":617.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.11221875,"end":614.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.9428437500001,"end":619.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.42784375,"end":628.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.87784375,"end":641.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.09534375,"end":641.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.1628437500001,"end":641.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.1965937500001,"end":641.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.7278437500001,"end":643.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.74471875,"end":644.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.79534375,"end":646.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.29284375,"end":653.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.1228437500001,"end":655.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.2197187500001,"end":655.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.99596875,"end":667.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.51721875,"end":676.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.51596875,"end":677.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.0390937500001,"end":683.3840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.8659687500001,"end":678.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.68784375,"end":685.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.67909375,"end":687.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.7378437500001,"end":689.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.58971875,"end":705.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.3490937500001,"end":691.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.0872187500001,"end":694.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.09534375,"end":695.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.1459687500001,"end":695.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.0359687499999,"end":698.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.9384687500001,"end":700.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.07284375,"end":716.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.32846875,"end":717.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.6740937500001,"end":717.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.26034375,"end":719.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.54284375,"end":723.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.20034375,"end":726.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.58846875,"end":728.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.5959687500001,"end":734.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.7222187500001,"end":736.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.84409375,"end":740.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.42159375,"end":742.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.37909375,"end":742.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.61096875,"end":745.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.5009687500001,"end":745.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.7878437500001,"end":749.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.0615937500002,"end":750.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.7197187500001,"end":751.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.8459687500001,"end":754.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.56284375,"end":756.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.2922187500001,"end":758.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.4397187500001,"end":760.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.18221875,"end":772.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.09659375,"end":768.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.38346875,"end":768.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.34096875,"end":770.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.2522187500001,"end":771.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.9565937500001,"end":772.9734687499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.851,"end":5.572,"text":"謝謝主席有請紅部長謝謝陳委員部長你剛剛在回答陳敬輝委員的時候你說警消組工會最有爭議的是什麼部分你說是罷工權最有爭議我認為現在社會上面就是說看法不一的確實是針對罷工權的部分什麼叫爭議爭議就是大家"},{"start":30.831,"end":31.932,"text":"請部長要有科學證據"},{"start":54.502,"end":65.025,"text":"我說的爭議的問題我不是要否認我不是要說因為我知道對公會來說罷工權很重要爭議要有針對你同意嗎?爭議要有針對你都有國家級民調嘛不是隨便網路上大家這樣說一個平台就解決啦爭議不是隨便說說的你現在是部長喔短短幾天你從這個監督別人變成被監督人請問部長你把這個角色轉換完成了嗎?"},{"start":80.509,"end":93.881,"text":"我們當然希望盡快然後也在適應中那也很謝謝很多同仁的協助你公開說你不用被恭喜那我倒是這個態度給予肯定因為畢竟這是犧牲了一條人命之後的換來的一個結果"},{"start":95.563,"end":123.148,"text":"大家都很難過發生這樣的事情那當時勞動部的這個調查報告不僅沒有辦法釐清真相嘛這是火上加油嘛才會有今天的結果所以我向部長你要還給北屬北分屬同仁的家屬一個公道要還給全台灣人民一個真相啊這是我們現在正在做的希望做的事情那本席提的問題請部長時問時答不要閃躲啊不要呼嚨我不要和氣可以嗎可以嗎"},{"start":129.728,"end":139.899,"text":"這位分署長過去的長官說他沒有收到相關的檢舉這事情我沒有辦法接受連我自己因為我之前在衛環我都聽過相關的傳聞"},{"start":142.739,"end":145.66,"text":"你聽到這個鬼故事之後隔了多久隔了多久你向勞動部反映"},{"start":173.225,"end":198.781,"text":"跟委員報告其實這是我在媒體上面我們其實說明過第一個因為確實你知道我上一屆：聽到又何時向勞動部反映你當時是立委啊其實是其實並不是今年二月現在大家一直說二月並不是二月沒有關係是隔了多久所以我沒有問你日期是隔了多久在應該是在去年隔了多久你聽到這個訊息然後隔了多久你的勞動部反映應該沒有多久但是具體的時間幾天幾個月幾週"},{"start":203.086,"end":204.047,"text":"那當時是向勞動部反映?"},{"start":227.148,"end":247.103,"text":"那你有沒有持續關心?反應後就結束啦有沒有持續關心?我的個性都追到底耶你是比我更優秀的委員不是嗎?更資深優秀的委員你有沒有持續關心?我好像沒聽過你質詢的那你反應不就身為立委你不追究勞動部的責任嗎?"},{"start":255.07,"end":284.37,"text":"向委員報告確實我們那時候是有相關的聽聞但坦白說因為不是有陳情人來跟我陳情或者是我當時手上有具體的證據聽的時候就要去問啊所以當時我聽聞以後我當時的作用就像我剛才說我沒有當時沒有行政相關的管理權限我其實就跟勞動部做相關的反應部長如果當立委你都有追究權追究的責任你當時都沒有這樣做那我現在怎麼知道你當了你現在有行政權你會辦到底啊"},{"start":285.73,"end":304.779,"text":"我現在當然要辦到底你公開跟大家說你要辦到底嗎當然時間還有時間喔我們現在就在辦當然辦到底但事實上二月啊二月的時候啊那貴黨的這個議員當然就有提出來這個不但霸凌還貪污啊剛剛前面的委員都提到這些事情那不了了之嘛"},{"start":305.599,"end":318.469,"text":"這就是不了了之嘛那當時約談這個我很重視這個部分因為我想在前端去了解問題為什麼後面沒辦法阻止悲劇發生當時這個約談謝宜蓉的王安邦次長突然離職了"},{"start":321.195,"end":347.364,"text":"何部長在上次質詢的時候答應我會重啟重啟二月陳情案的調查而且一周內完成那當時因為你還沒有就任部長可是你現在相任一周內你要蓋瓜承受請問調查的結果是什麼到底二月的陳情案調查的結果是什麼向陳委員說明目前就這個可能涉及到標案跟採購的部分就這部分"},{"start":348.826,"end":352.79,"text":"其實檢調已經開始在查二月只有標案跟採購案沒有霸凌案"},{"start":353.595,"end":382.862,"text":"就我知道當時就我目前理解的資訊是當時主要是針對這個是舊的東西已經做完了欸這不能修改不能偽造文書欸那是什麼就什麼啊就我理解齁欸你看得到啊為什麼會就你理解你看得到啊我才有就我理解啊我說就我理解的資訊當時比較不是針對霸凌案的問題比較是針對一些經費使用的問題經費使用更嚴重啊刑法啊所以我說在經費使用的問題在標案或採購上面的誰在斥案到底誰在斥案"},{"start":387.258,"end":410.075,"text":"目前確實檢調針對尤其是標案或者是採購的問題下面目前正在偵辦那我們部裡面對於這些檢調偵辦我們會全力配合但是我今天前面兩集我也是關注這個部分這個也很重要我今天關注是那條人命就是說你說二月調查沒有提及霸凌案你確定"},{"start":410.946,"end":429.878,"text":"就我目前看到的資料裡面他主要是針對經費的使用的狀況你說沒有談霸凌案那到底就誰吃案啊許明春說是王安邦沒有往上呈報啊那林淑芬說謝宜蓉的靠山是許明春啊那到底真相是怎麼樣民進黨派新內鬥鬥出一條人命是這樣嗎社會能接受嗎"},{"start":433.939,"end":434.059,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":457.495,"end":465.602,"text":"陳委員因為現在這件事情正在檢調其實檢調有來檢調歸檢調你內部有原來的約談記錄陳委員我在這邊可以說其實檢調針對其實有來跟我們說針對標案跟採購的部分因為目前檢調正在調查所以他們希望針對這個採購跟標案的部分我們先暫緩"},{"start":479.718,"end":480.638,"text":"我們先讓台上代表發言"},{"start":509.551,"end":537.468,"text":"我們會把這樣這樣的聲音也一樣我們會把它帶回到行政部門裡面部長當時5月1號勞動節你上台了很享受那麼多的群眾吧這種信念我也有過啊部長你答應啊你答應把這個聲音帶回行政部門跟立法院當時你是立法委員那你有嗎還是只有你進去這個勞工的聲音沒有走到勞動部結果是你自己走到勞動部當然有反應給行政部門你有反應嗎當然那我請教你齊建價什麼時候還給勞工"},{"start":539.544,"end":561.781,"text":"第一我知道很多委員跟勞工朋友都很關心工時問題那我當然支持勞工降低工時上面的負擔那行動行動那當然現在講到基金價也就是關於國定價值調整的問題現在這個國定價值調整的問題目前主管的法規是今天是節日實施辦法這個法規的主管是內政部"},{"start":563.347,"end":590.041,"text":"我當然會來反映勞工各種在這個議題上面的意見但確實現在關於國定假日調整的問題他的主管法規是在內政部我同意這個部分你可以有一些時間我以後再來再進一步瞭解當天你到五一勞動的那個場合的時候他們有提出了五大訴求跟16項主張你不用一一背出來你記得幾條"},{"start":592.542,"end":616.675,"text":"你會記嗎?稍後會記嗎?你會記嗎?我們可以再提醒我,對。阿不然你去啊是去啊?因為時間真的有點久,對。阿但是你上去又聽他們講話阿?當然當然當然。阿不然你去做秀阿?阿隨便幾條都問不出來喔?阿部長,你這臨危秀秘是沒有秘樂旗的喔?你沒有秘樂旗喔?你趕快上到,要趕快進入狀況捏。"},{"start":624.269,"end":639.181,"text":"環境部部長在接受專訪時談到上任時他就發一個公文要主管如果下班要發LINE給員工要寫專案加班只要下班發LINE就算加班那我想請教勞動部會比照嗎?你認同嗎?這是環境部啦你認同嗎?"},{"start":646.768,"end":667.159,"text":"確實在一些國外的情境裡面會有像類似像這樣子的規定啦你可能要想一想我當然覺得你可以跟他不同意但是我只是問你說你要不要比照呢那如果晚上8點你想想看晚上8點署管發賴就8點半他才看到啊那個加班時間算多久啊怎麼計算"},{"start":669.504,"end":688.77,"text":"我為什麼這樣問呢?因為你自己六月也向卓院長提到啊,輪班的公務員加班的餘數應該併進,對,你還記得,好所以我希望你從立委轉換到部長,不要忘記過去的主張喔不要帶頭壓榨基層喔這絕對不會忘記的,對好,下一個影片"},{"start":692.432,"end":692.552,"text":"陳昭姿"},{"start":705.062,"end":710.247,"text":"部長警察維持秩序你的助理需要這樣咆哮嗎?你的助理咆哮的意思是不輸給你在立法院執行的氣勢"},{"start":731.656,"end":756.121,"text":"委員,我其實有在...你有把他帶到勞動部嗎?你有把他帶到勞動部去嗎?他沒有在我目前部長室辦公室裡面。沒有在...所以帶到勞動部去啦?沒有。你沒有帶到勞動部,我再確定。沒有。你有權利,但是我要問你,你有沒有把他帶到勞動部去?他沒有跟著我到勞動部。他沒有帶...沒有跟著你到勞動部去。好,沒有,不然我真擔心勞動部就跑出了謝宜蓉。走了一個謝宜蓉跑出了謝宜蓉。"},{"start":759.698,"end":769.97,"text":"總之過去做了事講的話我們都要負責任反走過必留下痕跡希望你善待勞工善待基層好好經營你現在負責的部門"}]}},{"id":"157751","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157751","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083602361a6a4d0447effe45dd5fe0ad21242f169037e582a32066455311a68b89ff25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:49:00 - 10:10:17","影片長度":"00:21:17","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:49:00+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:10:17+08:00","duration":1277,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.03909375,"end":5.363468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9.177218750000002,"end":30.574718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.620968750000003,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.017218750000005,"end":34.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.27846875,"end":40.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.969718750000006,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.94846875,"end":43.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.04534375,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.43346875,"end":52.900343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.63034375,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.680968750000005,"end":52.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.900343750000005,"end":52.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.95096875,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.03034375,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.08784375,"end":113.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.51096875,"end":115.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.82721875,"end":115.84409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.86096875000001,"end":120.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.39596875000001,"end":122.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.16784375,"end":136.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.90409375000002,"end":144.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.35846875000001,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.27346875,"end":155.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.83784375000002,"end":170.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.29971875,"end":173.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.21909375,"end":181.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.71221875,"end":177.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.36534375000002,"end":190.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.68034375000002,"end":192.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.72659375,"end":200.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.05909375000002,"end":269.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.69346875,"end":274.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.31721875,"end":274.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.94159375000004,"end":275.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.94159375000004,"end":276.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.05534375,"end":276.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.96659375,"end":296.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.01721875000004,"end":277.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.46971875,"end":303.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.61221875,"end":308.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.89409375,"end":310.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.99096875000004,"end":312.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.07096875,"end":314.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.69909375000003,"end":321.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.42784375,"end":328.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.68846875,"end":372.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.99784375,"end":401.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.64659375,"end":381.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.38034375,"end":383.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.74909375000004,"end":402.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.60096875000005,"end":416.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.37096875000003,"end":421.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.21409375,"end":427.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.31846875,"end":437.16096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.27596875,"end":430.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.16096875000005,"end":442.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.86909375000005,"end":443.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.79284375000003,"end":478.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.56784375,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.33096875,"end":485.18721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.19159375000004,"end":508.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.13596875,"end":489.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.55784375,"end":489.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":509.13284375,"end":531.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.6397187499999,"end":533.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.3147187500001,"end":538.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.1497187500001,"end":536.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.6303437500001,"end":541.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.7734687500001,"end":543.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.79846875,"end":557.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.7390937499999,"end":544.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.5647187500001,"end":554.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":554.8134687500001,"end":555.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":556.2140937500001,"end":557.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.40784375,"end":559.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":559.09971875,"end":559.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.97721875,"end":572.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.20721875,"end":576.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.5990937500001,"end":577.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.57784375,"end":604.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.42034375,"end":586.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.80971875,"end":607.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.4297187500001,"end":613.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.26409375,"end":615.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.20471875,"end":616.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.20034375,"end":618.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.2084687500001,"end":623.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.4353437500001,"end":648.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.8315937500001,"end":628.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.1184687500001,"end":628.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.8059687500001,"end":630.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.1772187500001,"end":630.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.1828437500001,"end":649.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.67221875,"end":649.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.4990937499999,"end":656.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.0590937500001,"end":658.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.69596875,"end":670.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.0790937500001,"end":664.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.33221875,"end":664.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.0990937500001,"end":682.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":671.2678437500001,"end":672.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.47284375,"end":682.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.72596875,"end":684.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.08846875,"end":694.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.85909375,"end":698.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.71909375,"end":705.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.38534375,"end":702.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.50721875,"end":712.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":710.82284375,"end":717.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.41659375,"end":723.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":722.1628437500001,"end":727.0734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.5122187500001,"end":728.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.1028437500001,"end":733.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.3472187500001,"end":730.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.9584687500001,"end":759.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.81096875,"end":760.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.92471875,"end":764.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":764.99159375,"end":765.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.0590937500001,"end":765.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.15596875,"end":770.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.1047187500001,"end":770.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.4253437500001,"end":779.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.63096875,"end":780.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.29284375,"end":790.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.86096875,"end":809.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.69346875,"end":813.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":813.37221875,"end":815.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.78534375,"end":819.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.83534375,"end":825.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":826.41659375,"end":832.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.2553437500001,"end":835.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":834.07784375,"end":836.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":836.9128437500001,"end":842.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":842.1272187500001,"end":842.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":842.48159375,"end":846.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.70034375,"end":847.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.39221875,"end":849.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.21471875,"end":860.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":860.1497187500001,"end":862.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.44471875,"end":862.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.9340937500001,"end":874.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.9509687500001,"end":862.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.2865937500001,"end":883.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.8715937500001,"end":893.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":893.7140937500001,"end":895.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.3172187500002,"end":895.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":895.6884687500001,"end":901.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.0928437500002,"end":903.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":902.6240937500002,"end":906.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.29846875,"end":919.3640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":919.9209687500002,"end":927.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.6540937500001,"end":927.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":927.7509687500001,"end":928.2234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":928.3247187500001,"end":928.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":929.1684687500001,"end":930.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":931.19346875,"end":951.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":950.8528437500001,"end":952.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":953.02971875,"end":953.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":953.6372187500001,"end":953.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":953.70471875,"end":953.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":953.7722187500001,"end":953.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":954.41346875,"end":954.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":955.0209687500001,"end":958.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":959.05409375,"end":960.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":960.91034375,"end":973.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":970.76534375,"end":975.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.5790937500001,"end":985.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":985.1259687500001,"end":997.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":998.15346875,"end":1003.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1004.63346875,"end":1009.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1009.3415937500001,"end":1009.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1010.52284375,"end":1012.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.7590937500001,"end":1010.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1012.76721875,"end":1018.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1019.1797187500001,"end":1043.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1032.79784375,"end":1032.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1032.81471875,"end":1032.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1032.9665937500001,"end":1033.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1033.9622187500001,"end":1034.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1043.6484687500001,"end":1046.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1046.2134687500002,"end":1051.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1048.94721875,"end":1049.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1051.61346875,"end":1051.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1051.91721875,"end":1056.2203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1056.2203437500002,"end":1056.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1056.5072187500002,"end":1070.2772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1069.75409375,"end":1072.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1072.6565937500002,"end":1073.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1073.9559687500002,"end":1075.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1075.94721875,"end":1092.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1092.43409375,"end":1092.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1092.67034375,"end":1100.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1100.9559687500002,"end":1108.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1108.2290937500002,"end":1111.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1109.6634687500002,"end":1113.1565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1112.22846875,"end":1116.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1114.1184687500001,"end":1114.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1115.90721875,"end":1116.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1116.6497187500001,"end":1122.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1121.83034375,"end":1122.1509687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1122.64034375,"end":1124.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1124.90159375,"end":1133.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1133.2715937500002,"end":1133.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1133.8622187500002,"end":1136.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1137.28784375,"end":1141.1522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1141.4053437500002,"end":1143.6834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1144.32471875,"end":1145.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1146.13034375,"end":1150.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1152.3909687500002,"end":1157.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1157.63909375,"end":1158.0103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1158.8540937500002,"end":1161.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1162.3978437500002,"end":1174.5984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1174.7165937500001,"end":1182.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1176.77534375,"end":1176.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1176.79221875,"end":1177.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1180.9772187500002,"end":1184.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1184.4703437500002,"end":1185.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1185.90471875,"end":1192.0640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1192.09784375,"end":1192.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1192.1653437500001,"end":1192.4859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1192.8572187500001,"end":1208.5340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1196.5359687500002,"end":1198.3753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1198.3753437500002,"end":1198.3922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1207.8084687500002,"end":1212.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1213.1072187500001,"end":1223.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1223.48534375,"end":1238.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1225.3922187500002,"end":1225.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1238.5884687500002,"end":1240.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1240.8328437500002,"end":1247.3465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1248.0215937500002,"end":1263.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1263.9009687500002,"end":1264.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1264.69409375,"end":1269.9422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1269.89159375,"end":1271.5284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1271.5284687500002,"end":1271.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1272.5915937500001,"end":1274.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1272.67596875,"end":1273.1484687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.039,"end":4.76,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝委員我也請洪部長部長我們上個會期王玉敏委員擔任召委的時候那個時候針對一些消防人員的意外我們曾經排審公會法但當時呢全序部考試院來了他們說再給他們一點時間他們想要再擬更詳細的這個公務人員協會法那這邊本席是找出"},{"start":31.67,"end":56.87,"text":"您之前的一段發言幫我播一下其實是因為剛有工會以後裡面就包括了罷工權怕罷工就包括了罷工權我說實話我自己是支持我覺得我自己是支持我覺得可以有罷工權但我知道這個社會裡面有很多人沒有不支持這件事情這個事情可能是比較爭議的或者是需要共識的地方"},{"start":58.063,"end":68.931,"text":"好那考試院全序部呢今年7月就端了一個新的菜色出來首先他先降低門檻可是警察還有消防人員對這樣子的門檻並沒有滿意他是300人150人他的門檻還是過高剛林月琴委員有稱讚您說您非常貼近我們勞工朋友的心啊"},{"start":79.119,"end":93.105,"text":"老公現在這個修正工會法已經從30人降到10人了這個相信您也很清楚您之前在節目上的發言也很感動我們的消防人員所以我也想知道說您在節目中講的這個"},{"start":95.166,"end":119.96,"text":"公會這個如果修公務人員的協會法他現在只能提出行政救濟啊訴訟還是很難進行協商因為他們並沒有團結權協商權以及罷工權那我也想問您今天是否有這個意願會想幫助我們的消防員朋友警察朋友等等的可以納入公會法的修訂呢"},{"start":121.445,"end":134.925,"text":"好 謝謝陳委員對於公務員是否能夠組公會的問題就像你剛才說這部分確實有涉及到考試員的權責我想大家都很清楚那我們當然很願意跟考試員一起來討論那就像你剛才拿出的這個這個"},{"start":137.011,"end":142.395,"text":"主公會會有三個重要的權利,協商權、結社權、罷工權。罷工權確實是目前大家在討論公務人員或主公會裡面最爭議的,之前我講得很清楚。"},{"start":155.945,"end":181.625,"text":"所以我當然現在是一個勞動部長我覺得我很願意就是說針對至少針對比方說像協商權跟結社權這部分來跟考試院來做充分的討論跟支持我很願意但是我們必須就像我節目說的目前因為主動的跟考試院來做聯繫我們當然願意來跟考試院來反映大家的需求可是我要說的是目前這個相關的法規的組織是在考試院"},{"start":182.446,"end":188.711,"text":"那就像我說罷工權確實在目前社會上面是爭議的事件是爭議的事情"},{"start":191.755,"end":212.05,"text":"所以至少我覺得就可以先優先來保障的事情是結社權跟協商權就是比較沒有爭議可以優先來保障也是有一個可能衛環委員會再把它拿回衛環來保障這些警消人員我們重新修法假使基層的這些人員並不滿意這個提出來的新版公務人員協會法的話這個是"},{"start":214.232,"end":216.895,"text":"勞動部2017年提出來的報告2017年他們曾經講過說針對這樣子的問題我們看到辛苦的消防人員年輕的生命不斷的在各個的新聞不斷不斷在流逝"},{"start":229.229,"end":246.635,"text":"他們之前提出四個建議一個是修正公務人員協會法第二個是修正公會法第三個是針對公務人員結社法另立新法第四是維持現行法制具體的改善工作條件到目前都還沒有任何一個實現而我們已經換到第三個勞動部長了第一個勞動部部長王委員剛剛已經看了他拿錢去開演唱會第二個勞動部部長他提出來的檢討報告大家不買單"},{"start":256.758,"end":257.219,"text":"我剛才說我認為應該從現在社會上面爭議比較小的開始下手"},{"start":275.517,"end":296.443,"text":"是哪一個就是關於公務人員的協商權跟結社權的保障這部分當然我們很願意優先的來跟考試院一起來做討論就勞動部本身我們當然願意來做討論這是在社會上比較沒有爭議的坦白說就是就剛才說確實現在的罷工權的部分是比較高度爭議的部分"},{"start":297.597,"end":321.266,"text":"所以我們大概什麼時候可以知道您跟考試院討論出來的結果的報告因為這些相關的法規其實目前其實是考試院下面的權責所以我沒有辦法在這邊我們要去問考試院我沒有辦法在這邊替考試院回答一個時間上面的承諾那可能不好意思我不知道未來是不是還有朝委又會再把這一題拿回來我們衛黃委員會重新的討論"},{"start":322.432,"end":324.133,"text":"那我相信這個提案對你來說應該是很重要因為你上一屆也有提出來"},{"start":350.431,"end":355.376,"text":"這件也有提出來但是至今已經過了434天了您說啊您要把孕婦的產檢價賠產配偶的賠產價等等都全部改名為生產準備價然後不僅要放寬適用的範圍不限於讓勞工只能用在產檢或賠產價更可以用在參與產前的教育這一點您覺得呢"},{"start":374.405,"end":401.827,"text":"其實針對對於孕婦尤其是跟性別平等相關的支持其實我這幾天其實在很短的商人時間我其實已經交代同仁這是我們接下來很重要的工作尤其是照顧不離職的部分所以我們會已經要求把相關綜合的法規因為有些時候包括賠償減價包括家庭照顧價包括等等的其實他有很多的細項我們其實已經請業務單位要做一個綜合性的評估綜合性的評估大概什麼時候會看到這個"},{"start":402.648,"end":405.871,"text":"所以您的意思是說你以前寫這個提案的時候可能後來想一想覺得要綜合性的評估會好一點"},{"start":428.719,"end":429.079,"text":"當然要綜合性的考慮"},{"start":443.848,"end":464.436,"text":"好那另外一個這也是您提出性別平等工作法第29條的修正最後非常可惜也沒有到三讀您認為說受僱者或受僱求職者如果受到的不是財產上損害的話這些損害來自於性騷擾那你主張可以把精神上的不利益影響納入法定最終應該支付的賠償金額來做計算我也想問"},{"start":468.818,"end":468.918,"text":"陳菁徽"},{"start":484.649,"end":507.061,"text":"這個主張的初衷當然是從勞工的立場出發所以這些個別的主張我覺得第一個一定會秉持這個事情的初衷那把它放到接下來我們機制化或法制化修法的計畫裡面我們會把這些初衷尤其是從勞工角度出發的初衷當然會盡量放進接下來的修法計畫裡面"},{"start":509.195,"end":531.315,"text":"之前有發生過您的助理辱罵警察還有您針對這個霸凌案您其實很早就知道了但是您的說法是說您沒有行政職權所以當時沒有辦法處理那現在您已經有行政職權了所以我也想知道說這些東西您的期程是如何不然我們還要再寫臨時提案跟你來回"},{"start":533.534,"end":559.383,"text":"跟陳委員報告因為確實我上任的時間到目前其實大概10天在這10天裡面我不要想推脫時間不會啊你也可以說三個月啊你也可以說兩個月我沒有想要推脫給時間但是我說我必須跟業務單位針對因為這都是重大議題而且它其實涉及到的層面很廣我確實必須跟業務單位做更仔細的討論這部分我認為這是比較謹慎跟負責任的做法三個月做不到"},{"start":560.049,"end":560.549,"text":"下一張"},{"start":578.425,"end":603.734,"text":"這個如果大家需要連結我昨天看的是非常感動啦因為您總質詢15分鐘全部都是在講同樣一件事我不知道您記不記得當時您拿這個經濟學的諾貝爾得主Claudia Golden你還用了她論文裡面許多的圖來告訴陳建仁院長說女性的勞參率有多低男女的薪資差異有多大然後問題到底在哪裡那我們播一下您點出問題在哪裡"},{"start":605.862,"end":606.883,"text":"這是很多年輕的爸爸媽媽共同在反映的問題"},{"start":625.492,"end":647.917,"text":"所以我看了真的很好我把15分鐘全部都看完了畢竟我也是女性在職場工作的所以非常有感受啦各黨委員在這個會期都提出還有上個會期提出性別平等工作法還有相關的法規都有把親職假親職照顧假等等你剛剛一直在講到說沒有彈性太僵硬太難用你這件事情一直告訴誰這是很久以前囉去年3月"},{"start":650.078,"end":655.99,"text":"對所以呢我也想知道說未來你的這個修法的期程還有進度是如何"},{"start":657.696,"end":683.711,"text":"其實我在上任的第一天其實那天記者會上其實就跟大家說照顧不離職是我們工作的重點其實這個總諮詢的影片從頭到尾在講就是照顧不離職這個主題那目前確實相關的包括育嬰假等等等我到目前都認為還是有太過僵硬的問題應該要盡快的來做彈性化可是我要跟"},{"start":685.185,"end":697.412,"text":"主持人報告因為這確實涉及到我們要跟不管是勞方的專業的意見要能夠進來包括性別團體的專業意見要進來也包括這裡面會跟要跟企業團來做一定程度的討論"},{"start":699.775,"end":726.626,"text":"我只能我跟你說這是絕對是我重點重的重點優先中的優先可是我們可能沒有辦法現在提供一個說到底什麼時間點的問題但這絕對是我們的重點最優先的事情所以我們今天問了一大堆問題全部都沒有任何的啟程啊你沒有辦法告訴我們可能再給我們讓再再給我們一點時間我們來做跟業務單位來做更仔細的規劃之後再來問你做到哪裡做到哪裡開了哪些會"},{"start":728.477,"end":754.671,"text":"這個是我曾經寫的臨時提案那當時呢勞動部部長是回應我說是否增訂較為彈性的輕職價就跟你剛講的一模一樣喔所以我也不知道換了一個人到底會不會有什麼改變啦實務上人需考量各行各業經營型態的不同工作型態工作時間的排班多元事業規模懸殊等等等等這跟你剛講的答案是沒有任何的不同這是"},{"start":755.211,"end":755.972,"text":"您的意思是說您的任內"},{"start":781.826,"end":808.866,"text":"我當然高度期望這件事情我非常高度期望這件事情所以我們會用積極溝通現在確實在企業端裡面會有一些人表達有疑慮但我們不會就說你有疑慮我就讓事情停在這裡我們會積極跟他溝通一步一步的來跟他溝通"},{"start":809.747,"end":818.161,"text":"你剛才說是在我任內我當然希望在這部分有突破那你有發現是哪些產業留職率最低你想先從哪些產業開始溝通嗎"},{"start":819.898,"end":846.066,"text":"其實因為這些產業裡面也有不同大小的規模目前我們其實看到其實在一些比較人數比較大的規模裡面他們去做類似上面在人事上面的彈性的調動的難易度是比較低的其實您的總質詢講得非常好您大聲的告訴陳建仁院長說有33萬的女性沒有辦法留在職場對我是建議您這33萬你要先去找最多的是哪一個產業是"},{"start":847.486,"end":871.094,"text":"然後你從那個產業開始溝通所以我也非常非常願意因為我知道你在這方面也有你很專業的意見我也非常非常願意我們再跟你有更多的討論也請你再提供我們很多你自己的意見跟指教這部分我也很願意的最後我們來討論一下您的這份報告您上面有講到說您研擬設置一個專門的霸凌專線我想問這個跟你既有的1955勞工申訴諮詢24小時不斷電的專線有什麼不同"},{"start":875.359,"end":883.079,"text":"我跟委員報告齁因為在當然在我上任前當然我們在處理尤其是北分署的事件的時候"},{"start":885.609,"end":906.46,"text":"呃大家對於申訴的機制其實有蠻多的不信任所以當時其實在這個非常的時期當時我就公佈了一個我自己專屬的可是你也只有給北分署啊是那你知道後面還有很多委員要來跟你講其他部門的報告我知道我知道因為相關的案件結果沒有人打到你手機全部打到我們委員辦公室啊"},{"start":907.953,"end":927.851,"text":"重點是我覺得重點是我們怎麼去處理一個不會讓大家覺得吃案的機制因為這中間當然他申訴的過程他會經過哪些路徑這當然最後是我們要處理所以表示你這個沒有啊因為不然他不會打到我們各委員的辦公室啊等一下就會有人問你我今天是沒時間問是對所以我說建立"},{"start":931.314,"end":933.835,"text":"所以你設好了沒?還沒?嚴明"},{"start":955.077,"end":980.372,"text":"報告委員我們跟部長討論的結果是這樣子我們目前1955是所有的勞工申訴都在進來如果針對心理健康部分包括霸凌部分我們希望用我們新的資源包括預防重新中心這個資源在北東南東之前我曾經質詢過你很少人去質詢很難預約的所以我想說在這兩個月的討論那個資源可以挹注過去那勞工可以就近的一些"},{"start":985.176,"end":1009.116,"text":"可是因為您的報告裡面也寫到說現在你也尋求外部的心理支持然後勞動部會幫忙買單所以這件事情你是要持續做還是只是最近暫時做以後還是回到他的部門跟委員報我們確實有一個在非常時期裡面我們現在必須先做的事情因為目前確實5%的同仁們的心理狀況是比較多的"},{"start":1010.709,"end":1030.197,"text":"這是我自己親自去探訪以後我很明確感受到的事情所以在這個非常時期可能需要一些非常做法因為相關機制的建立剛才說他可能確實需要一段時間沒有辦法短期來支應我們這個階段很即刻的需求所以我才會先公佈我自己專屬的電話跟email"},{"start":1031.777,"end":1055.965,"text":"這確實是非常時期下的非常多,但未來當然要把它引導入,把機制給優化好,引導回,引導回優化的機制上,確實不能永遠都靠我的專屬電話,我想這事情我們很清楚是,沒有我在講說這個外部心理支持,其實是我們認證比較有效的,因為如果你從內部去給,大家同仁是不敢去說的"},{"start":1056.625,"end":1057.125,"text":"可是他剛說還是會最後會回去內部的欸"},{"start":1073.988,"end":1097.123,"text":"不是不是不是不是這意思我們會在至少在這段時間裡面針對北分署的這個不當管理的事件在這先就這個專屬的範範籌裡面先提供大家外部諮商資源的這樣子的支持大家去找我們這是單參考衛福部的做法在衛福部的做法他們大概在北北基宜相關的專業的諮商資源把這個網絡的連結給"},{"start":1100.947,"end":1103.688,"text":"之前我們要求你要有新的報告而且您說你現在也正在做這個新的報告"},{"start":1122.952,"end":1149.871,"text":"這個新的報告你是如果你要推翻之前舊的調查報告其實舊的報告已經被謝宜蓉的律師拿來做法庭上的攻防那之後你們要怎麼解決這件事情第一個我們會有新的報告然後在這個新的報告裡面我們希望能夠更從被壓迫的無性公務員的角度去還原到底他經歷了什麼"},{"start":1152.455,"end":1156.704,"text":"那希望這個還原出來能夠讓更多的事實能夠浮現出來"},{"start":1158.939,"end":1160.499,"text":"所以有一些有可能會推翻的新事證嗎?會有嗎?"},{"start":1185.985,"end":1187.606,"text":"何佩珊部長的上一份報告他有寫到說"},{"start":1212.619,"end":1237.907,"text":"他這個親身的員工也有一大部分是因為他認為業務分配不均必須重新檢討可是你今天這份報告完全沒有提到業務你有講到心理支持這些很好你有講到申訴管道這些是你要去改的那如果針對這些業務分配何佩珊部長覺得這也是他親身的原因之一的話您是不是應該也要把他列進報告呢"},{"start":1238.629,"end":1262.661,"text":"那個跟委員報告確實現在在北分署的這事情上我們這個報告裡面著墨比較少因為這是要留待這個重啟調查的報告裡面來做公佈跟呈現所以針對北分署的內容我沒有意識到一些問題包括剛才講到說業務分配或人力結構上面問題我沒有意識到這個問題但這裡面關於北分署事件的一些細節"},{"start":1264.741,"end":1265.001,"text":"主席謝謝 部長謝謝"}]}},{"id":"157745","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157745","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360df98d1a36cc17bf6e45dd5fe0ad21242525ce9d933a56c3fbc1a2502fc54816a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:37:51 - 09:48:54","影片長度":"00:11:03","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:37:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:48:54+08:00","duration":663,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.81909375,"end":7.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.9790937500000005,"end":8.485343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.222843750000003,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.864093750000002,"end":18.660968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.09971875,"end":25.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.22096875,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.367843750000002,"end":36.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.58221875,"end":65.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.64096875,"end":73.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.29784375,"end":76.05284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.62659375,"end":85.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.12721875000001,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.11846875,"end":103.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.30159375000001,"end":104.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.82471875,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.21596875,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.82159375,"end":153.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.23909375000002,"end":154.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.25159375,"end":216.65534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.65534375000001,"end":241.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.13659375,"end":252.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.44284375,"end":285.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.96096875,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.72159375,"end":316.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.67346875000004,"end":333.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.23596875000004,"end":338.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.65721875,"end":358.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.73846875000004,"end":399.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.17096875000004,"end":414.34596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.53159375,"end":443.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.96159375,"end":446.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.13409375000003,"end":449.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.98596875000004,"end":450.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.91409375,"end":456.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.29721875,"end":473.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.56034375,"end":474.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.11721875,"end":474.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.87659375000004,"end":487.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.81971875000005,"end":524.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.52284375,"end":526.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.8684687500001,"end":538.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.6472187500001,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.1853437500001,"end":555.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.1003437500001,"end":572.2959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.92034375,"end":579.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.7209687500001,"end":612.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.70721875,"end":629.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.5359687499999,"end":651.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.20346875,"end":653.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.49846875,"end":659.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.0503437500001,"end":660.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.0247187500001,"end":662.45909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.297,"end":7.323,"text":"主席 麻煩我們的洪部長"},{"start":17.351,"end":33.742,"text":"11月4日北分署發生不幸事件讓整個社會感到震驚在這事件當中勇於赴任本席跟全國民眾都對你充滿期待根據勞動部11月26日"},{"start":36.784,"end":52.314,"text":"的新聞稿指出你上任的第一天就公布了三大措施也就是申訴直通我們的部長室然後杜絕送禮文化廢除5S所以本席認為這是長久以來公務文化的一個正面的挑戰"},{"start":58.057,"end":71.966,"text":"這次事件當中受害最深的自然事實上是發展署的那個北分署的同仁們而勞動部的同仁們也是感同身受所以對這次有什麼樣更具體的做法剛剛前面當然有一部分報告是不是讓你多一些時間來做說明"},{"start":75.311,"end":86.99,"text":"謝謝林委員其實在上週禮拜一我這個就任後隔天我其實就到北分我們就到北分署去做了訪查一個早上在訪查過程中"},{"start":88.168,"end":103.069,"text":"坦白說我很清楚的感覺到目前北分署整個署的同仁蠻多的其實的心理上面的狀況在長期的這個不當管理的情況之下其實蠻多看起來都有一些狀況"},{"start":105.012,"end":123.454,"text":"所以我要說其實確實現在我們看到這個所謂的霸凌的問題可能不是只是這個謝前分署長針對無姓的公務員而已而是他其實是一個在帶領整個這個分署的過程裡面其實普遍性的管理作風"},{"start":124.861,"end":153.399,"text":"都是有問題的但是涉及到一些細節的部分可能留待這個重啟調查的報告所以在這狀況下面其實我們有意識到我們的工作一開始要優先的來支持北分署的員工所以我們其實有規劃了一個針對北分署的職場重建與員工支持方案在這個方案裡面有幾個很重要第一個我們需要給北分署的員工很明確的法律上面的支持因為"},{"start":154.42,"end":177.387,"text":"其實現在本分所員工也受到不管是檢調甚至警方或各個調查單位來去做約詢其實大家心理壓力也是很大所以讓大家有一個明確的法律的支持這很重要那目前這已經在辦理中了第二個就像剛才講的大家在心理上面其實是有受傷的情況壓力很大或者是這個很多的不安那我們除了現有當然講這個EAP"},{"start":179.267,"end":194.195,"text":"就是每個部會都有的EAP的資源外我們目前也規劃了一個去連結這個北北基宜其實相關的心理諮商的資源希望能夠讓分署的員工可以自選這些資源你可能就你的"},{"start":195.455,"end":216.221,"text":"這個比較近的地方或者是你可信任的心理諮商資源你都可以去做心理諮商那相關的費用都會由勞動部來做支應我們希望能夠給予北分署的員工至少最大的支持能夠讓大家從過去比較負面的狀況下面逐漸的回到正軌我想這是我們現在很重要優先的工作"},{"start":216.701,"end":241.742,"text":"好謝謝部長的確這很重要因為過去我們在民間服務的時候碰到這些事情的話的確他們需要的是法律上的一些諮詢比如說要到法院裡面如果要做證人或者什麼的話他們真的很需要還有心理的安定那另外就想問接續問說你如何強化勞動部的申訴機制所以我們的發展署這北分署是一個"},{"start":242.242,"end":242.362,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":270.35,"end":270.37,"text":"請勞動部長針對"},{"start":286.112,"end":304.91,"text":"我想大家也知道說這個安全衛生小組的這個他們其實受理的範圍很廣所以我們會也先目前在規劃把關於職場霸凌的部分的專責化會拉出來另立一個機制讓大家在另外的這個機制裡面來去做進行那目前的法制作業我也要求我們就趕快來把"},{"start":306.011,"end":333.167,"text":"趕快來讓這個這個市場霸凌防治的專責的這個機制趕快做出來而不是只是放在安全衛生防護小組裡面目前大概是這樣子那剛剛因為前面王委員也問因為最近媒體報導就救安基金的帳目不清以招挪用的爭議有沒有有要再做補充甚至未來你大概怎麼去執行這一塊減少掉這樣子的一個相關的問題"},{"start":336.334,"end":356.895,"text":"確實過去其實勞動部一直來本部的預算都比較少所以有很多的資用變成是在用救安基金來去做相關的資用他有他本身的一些結構性的問題那我們當然也會盡量的來跟行政院來爭取勞動部本部的預算應該要再能夠再做擴充這是第一點第二點是就像剛剛我們其實有講到"},{"start":360.173,"end":379.292,"text":"我們也檢視了目前救安基金包括管理會相關的機制我們確實覺得是有強化的必要那但是這個強化也涉及到一些也許涉及到一些審計相關的專業不管是事前或者是事後事前預防或者是事後的檢視的一些專業所以我們現在在也正在找相關專業的專業者來去做討論"},{"start":382.875,"end":383.795,"text":"謝謝部長也希望你後邊能夠因為"},{"start":402.898,"end":421.436,"text":"前朝產生的問題你這邊希望透過你的類似的一些做法能夠來做好把關上次是如果除了講到職場霸凌實際上還有一個非常很大的問題是因為我們的公務人員的保障法第23條制定了各機關的加班費的資給辦法"},{"start":423.444,"end":449.314,"text":"那公務員加班的申請加班費退休這些勞動條件都有明文規定可是有時候我們看申請加班主管核准那當然加班可是如果主管不核准的話他自行加班可是很多業務掛在身上他導致他們必須還是要把工作完成的時候那有時候加班費不足那就請他補休可是有時候大量的這樣的加班可能"},{"start":450.049,"end":450.149,"text":"林月琴議員"},{"start":475.991,"end":485.757,"text":"這部分我分兩部分來回答第一個勞動部下面確實是有正式的公務人員也有一些約聘的適用勞基法的工作人員那針對適用勞基法的部分我們會要求"},{"start":487.912,"end":509.87,"text":"我們的業務單位該加班的問題該怎麼記就怎麼記務必要符合老基法這是這個約聘的部分那公務員確實有一個加班的上限那我一直來要求同仁說絕對要避免黑數的狀況不要再有那種好像要大家去打了卡然後再叫大家加班的情況確實現在會有一個上限"},{"start":510.29,"end":538.153,"text":"那我會來盡力的在我們的工作的作業流程裡面去檢討怎麼樣子減少同仁不必要的負擔這當然是減少加班一個非常重要的重點可是符合規定也是我會要求很重要的重點謝謝部長因為你過去在當立委的時候就一直跟勞動朋友是站在一起的我也希望秉持這樣的心能夠持續那最後就想問一下因為大家都還是很關心因為蜜兔應該講是"},{"start":540.538,"end":541.164,"text":"資產霸凌的蜜兔運動"},{"start":542.614,"end":571.977,"text":"所以剛剛也提到你修法因為不是只有公務體系事實上我們也很關心因為我們辦公室就很常收到民眾對於他在企業上班結果被職場霸凌的時候到勞動局去申訴通常都是已讀不回或者說那這個不是在範圍內所以我們當然就很關心修法那可是先修法剛剛你也回答前面王委員問的時候你說那因為還是要等下個會期可是這當中可以做些什麼"},{"start":572.944,"end":602.804,"text":"好一樣我分兩個部分第一個部分就是確實執安法目前在職場霸凌上面的定義我們在解釋過確實還有可以要比恐怕是必須要定的更加清楚對一些樣態你才有辦法在這個法條的執行上面是足夠明確不會引起爭議所以這是針對這個霸凌法制化這防制霸凌法制化的部分我們會覺得會加速來做這是第一個第二個是其實現在是有這個執行職務遭受不法侵害預防指引"},{"start":603.604,"end":630.943,"text":"那我會請職安署來研議針對這個執行趕快來做優化因為確實修法需要的時間比較多但當下其實現在在一些不同的職場裡面已經有相關的案件很多人反應恐怕不一定能夠等得及修法但這個部分就這個執行本身我們趕快先來做優化那就像剛才說其實處理相關的要怎麼樣專業化或者是怎麼樣避免失案的狀況我覺得會是我們在這個執行裡面把它修訂很重要的一種的緩解這麻煩因為我們希望說"},{"start":631.563,"end":631.623,"text":"謝謝努委員"},{"start":661.165,"end":661.327,"text":"謝謝 謝謝林委員"}]}},{"id":"157777","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157777","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083605002f459ae5a58efe45dd5fe0ad2124294948cb68dbf16abb803803d6f493de85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"10:55:14 - 11:05:04","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:55:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:05:04+08:00","duration":590,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.6334687500000005,"end":7.844093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.012843750000002,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.20659375,"end":10.712843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.72034375,"end":17.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.61471875,"end":18.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.610343750000002,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.17034375,"end":53.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.53721875,"end":57.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.367843750000006,"end":58.907843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.05971875,"end":71.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.05346875000001,"end":77.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.90909375000001,"end":80.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.77784375,"end":104.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.63971875,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.11596875000001,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.46534375,"end":152.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.08721875,"end":181.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":228.43409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.59846875000002,"end":231.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.94409375,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.08659375000002,"end":243.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.67221875,"end":256.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.08784375,"end":283.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.27034375,"end":277.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.71221875000003,"end":296.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.16596875000005,"end":316.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.71159375,"end":316.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.45409375,"end":316.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.92659375,"end":346.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.77846875,"end":365.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.62346875000003,"end":366.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.77096875,"end":392.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.31346875,"end":379.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.53284375000004,"end":379.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.81909375000004,"end":386.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.81346875,"end":394.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.15909375,"end":397.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.18409375000005,"end":420.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.90221875000003,"end":419.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.20159375000003,"end":435.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.37284375,"end":431.67659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.35534375000003,"end":471.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.09221875000003,"end":480.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.49596875000003,"end":516.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.23721875,"end":489.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.55784375,"end":489.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.0390937500001,"end":515.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.94596875,"end":546.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.4172187500001,"end":525.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.03846875,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.82971875,"end":559.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.8547187500001,"end":561.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.8334687500001,"end":565.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.84971875,"end":570.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.77721875,"end":588.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.9522187499999,"end":585.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.96846875,"end":589.7278437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.623,"end":5.804,"text":"謝謝主席,我們請部長。"},{"start":17.235,"end":42.842,"text":"謝謝黃委員部長確實是辛苦了啦在短短幾天內然後這個從委員然後變成部長從一個質詢部長的一個角色轉換變成被質詢者我想請教就是說部長你在11月25號上任之後到現在那你也有到北分署去關心過嗎"},{"start":44.102,"end":52.051,"text":"那我想請教就是說其實可以感受到目前勞動部除了部長底下還一位次長"},{"start":54.548,"end":54.568,"text":"謝謝黃委員"},{"start":81.014,"end":108.133,"text":"其實確實現在勞動部目前三位次長裡面目前只有一位長次兩位正式是全缺所以我們現在也一直在跟行政院在討論相關適合的人選那也希望這個人選確定以後就趕快能夠就任因為我也很需要我們把我們這個主管的陣容給補齊因為我們的業務真的非常的龐雜那現在面對到的挑戰也非常大是變成說大家要找人然後發現好像勞動部現在"},{"start":109.534,"end":132.475,"text":"找不到人而且我覺得勞動部的這個業務真的非常的繁雜你掌管這個一千多萬勞工部長是大家長所以我想請教就是說在這個一個這將近這個一個月當中從北分署然後勞動部發生的這些事情那到最近我們看到台灣在"},{"start":132.995,"end":133.215,"text":"黃秀芳議員"},{"start":153.169,"end":174.747,"text":"要讓大家有一個期許要怎麼樣讓這個所有的這個工作同仁的士氣提升另外我們該修的法該補強的我們要去補強所以我現在想請教就是說部長你在上禮拜大家很關心就是說你為了想要趕快儘早融入這個勞動部"},{"start":177.189,"end":192.262,"text":"這個職位那也想要更快的了解目前的這個你這個一些法案也好這是工作那當然6日好6日就請這個這個同仁來加班那未來你要怎麼去避免這樣的事情"},{"start":192.762,"end":213.703,"text":"那另外就是說其實勞動部現在有很多業務尤其是現在是預算的會期那有很多可能這個工作或者是垂尋的部分很多都是來自立法院那你要怎麼樣讓我們的這個工作同仁不要在晚上然後收到你的指令或者是收到你的Line"},{"start":214.824,"end":216.846,"text":"我自己非常清楚現在外界包括立法院會對我們高度的檢視"},{"start":238.12,"end":255.075,"text":"那甚至因為這幾個爭議的案件大家會對我們怎麼處置會有一些時程上面的期待這我非常非常清楚但同時我們確實也有另外端是要把勞動部裡面的工作的文化弄得更健康所以在這兩個"},{"start":257.165,"end":280.194,"text":"在這兩個目的上面確實我們現在去取得想辦法去取得平衡所以至少我希望至少在我們在工作排程上面要去怎麼做一些檢討讓這個我們勞動部員工這個不必要的加班能夠盡量的來減少這事情是也是我們當然現在需要的工作那週末當時週末的這個會議的問題其實後來勞動部的基層也有來"},{"start":285.299,"end":296.159,"text":"來提醒我很謝謝勞動部的基層願意來提醒我提醒我說確實大家正在這個一個多月一個一個月左右的時間因為15%的這個事件所以大家其實真的"},{"start":297.176,"end":298.136,"text":"我希望說勞動部是我們所有勞工的榜樣"},{"start":323.127,"end":345.699,"text":"盡量不要在晚上傳LINE說要交辦工作因為現在真的是晚上或者是假日隨時可能都會收到老闆的LINE或者是交辦的工作那我們希望說勞動部你應該要以身作則來處理這件事情另外我想請教有關北分署的這個"},{"start":347.28,"end":365.459,"text":"這件事那當然就是說一開始可能在2月份可能次長王次長有處理有約談那後來大家會覺得說怎麼石沉大海不了了之那像這樣子你上來之後有沒有針對這個職場霸凌的這個部分有一個比較正常的一個管道"},{"start":367.807,"end":383.622,"text":"好 跟黃委員說明確實現在在我已上任之後因為我知道這是一個非常時期很多事情進行得很急所以我先提供我個人的電話跟E-mail但這不是一個我認為這不是一個長久之計這不是長久之計"},{"start":386.565,"end":409.733,"text":"那我們當然現在在署裡面過去既有的就是關於這個我們衛生與安全的防護要點跟小組的工作但我們現在在檢視後也發現其實恐怕需要針對職場霸凌另外拉出來做一個專責的處理所以這部分我們都在進行中所以上個禮拜其實我就有交代我們的法治單位趕快針對我們這個專責化的職場霸凌的機制趕快來去做規劃"},{"start":415.555,"end":415.595,"text":"黃秀芳議員"},{"start":435.564,"end":457.269,"text":"是不是要更明確或者是重新來審視這些條文然後來做一個檢討或是做一些研議我們希望說透過今天的這件事情那未來不要再發生那也要有一個很暢通的一個申訴的管道而不是這個勞工申訴之後或者是你們的員工申訴完之後結果"},{"start":459.97,"end":470.82,"text":"主管反而跟這個北分署的分署長講然後就又把這個陳情人又叫去我覺得未來不可以有再有類似的這樣的一個情形發生"},{"start":472.791,"end":488.513,"text":"現在確實在這個安全與衛生防護小組裡面其實相關的程序面不夠明確所以未來在處理相關事情的程序上必須明文化那也包括其實他的保密的狀況其實應該也要有所規範"},{"start":489.674,"end":516.11,"text":"那尤其是處理申訴處理的成員我們也希望要讓他專業要有更多專業那這些相關的案件進去以後其實後續有一個監督追蹤的機制避免不會吃案這些事情都是我們來去調整這個至少是勞動部內部的處理機制我們幾個重要的方向跟要點但更大的部分確實涉及到一般職場的部分那就涉及到可能接下來的法制化的修法的工作這樣子"},{"start":517.031,"end":545.807,"text":"其實不只只有勞動部所有的公務人員其他的所有的這個公務體系應該也存在類似這樣的一個狀況所以我覺得應該也是要一併一併去檢討當然勞動部你就是處理勞動部的事情那未來可能就是考試院或者是這個其他的這個行政單位要來去處理的那如果說針對一般勞工的話針對一般勞工的話我覺得要趕快把這個機制趕快把它建立起來"},{"start":546.728,"end":565.562,"text":"剛剛黃委員講到說關於公務員的部分確實現在他的主要的權責是在考試院但是我們勞動部部分我們很願意跟考試院一起來討論甚至提供我們在這上面比較專業的意見這部分我們很願意來參與那勞工的部分這個部分應該要趕快再把它健全起來"},{"start":566.002,"end":585.614,"text":"這事情就是我一般勞工跟一般職場部分這就是在我們全球之下我們絕對我們不會迴避的對好那確實是辛苦了短短幾天那我們也對你的期待也非常的高希望能夠趕快讓我們這個勞動部趕快進入正常的這個軌道好不好好謝謝黃委員好謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝部長我們現在休息"}]}},{"id":"157776","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157776","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083603cd719a3fb1062abe45dd5fe0ad2124294948cb68dbf16ab3c0b16c68b9325bf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖偉翔","委員發言時間":"10:37:33 - 10:55:07","影片長度":"00:17:34","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:37:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:55:07+08:00","duration":1054,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.50221875,"end":10.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.62846875,"end":11.505968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.21034375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":23.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.75721875,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.70284375,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.66846875,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.81971875,"end":60.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.37159375,"end":61.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.41784375,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.96721875,"end":84.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.79409375,"end":85.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.07471875,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.37721875000001,"end":132.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.63846875,"end":108.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.71909375,"end":135.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.87471875,"end":136.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.61721875,"end":137.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.57909375,"end":138.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.41846875000002,"end":150.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.31221875,"end":145.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.91846875000002,"end":156.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.98534375,"end":177.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.92596875,"end":159.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.79221875000002,"end":204.65721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.22096875000003,"end":188.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.55846875,"end":188.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.33471875,"end":189.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.18034375000002,"end":209.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.92221875,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.14096875,"end":214.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.93409375000002,"end":265.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.06409375,"end":220.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.43096875,"end":221.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.25284375,"end":228.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.45846875,"end":234.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.92659375000002,"end":237.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.01909375000002,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.57596875,"end":265.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.96409375,"end":278.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.50221875,"end":289.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.87596875,"end":290.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.42846875000004,"end":295.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.73159375,"end":297.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.95096875,"end":296.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.47409375,"end":296.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.92534375,"end":312.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.33221875000004,"end":324.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.73534375,"end":327.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.97971875,"end":335.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.62409375000004,"end":355.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.92284375,"end":342.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.55471875,"end":348.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.22846875000005,"end":356.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.73034375000003,"end":376.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.64721875000004,"end":389.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.23659375,"end":385.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.09659375,"end":390.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.11346875000004,"end":391.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.22284375000004,"end":395.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.65284375000005,"end":395.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.35721875,"end":398.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.75346875,"end":402.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.82034375,"end":408.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.18659375000004,"end":416.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.74221875,"end":420.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.43784375,"end":421.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.38284375,"end":435.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.84471875,"end":440.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.65409375,"end":444.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.86409375000005,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.68659375000004,"end":452.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.63534375,"end":458.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.69346875,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.28409375,"end":507.09096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.42409375000005,"end":482.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.02471875000003,"end":500.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.73221875,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.06409375,"end":517.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.75596875,"end":543.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.8740937499999,"end":549.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.0378437500001,"end":562.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.21721875,"end":581.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.20159375,"end":608.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.8472187500001,"end":623.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.81534375,"end":629.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.5190937500001,"end":637.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.9734687499999,"end":639.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.3022187500001,"end":651.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.8403437500001,"end":669.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.1328437500001,"end":686.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.9953437500001,"end":690.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.33221875,"end":698.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.2422187500001,"end":703.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.3134687500001,"end":709.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.43159375,"end":703.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.62471875,"end":721.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.3528437500001,"end":741.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":741.7547187499999,"end":749.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.3315937500001,"end":753.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.34784375,"end":757.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.1572187500001,"end":759.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.21596875,"end":761.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.7178437500002,"end":762.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":764.2153437500001,"end":768.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.7378437500001,"end":772.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":772.5009687500001,"end":773.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.59784375,"end":801.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.82409375,"end":784.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.61659375,"end":789.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.28971875,"end":802.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.07846875,"end":843.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":843.6797187500001,"end":863.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":863.42346875,"end":865.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":865.97159375,"end":866.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.0347187500001,"end":907.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.48721875,"end":888.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.9128437500001,"end":890.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.73721875,"end":914.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.8415937500001,"end":916.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":916.7990937500001,"end":918.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":921.0009687500001,"end":954.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":930.5522187500001,"end":931.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":954.53159375,"end":968.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":968.2678437500001,"end":973.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":973.53284375,"end":979.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.2153437500001,"end":986.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":986.45909375,"end":989.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":989.74971875,"end":998.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1000.14471875,"end":1001.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1001.6128437500001,"end":1001.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1002.0009687500001,"end":1016.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1016.3784687500001,"end":1022.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1023.06096875,"end":1024.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1024.1409687500002,"end":1036.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1036.1222187500002,"end":1050.8878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1052.0859687500001,"end":1053.85784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.715,"end":9.944,"text":"謝主席：有請洪部長"},{"start":13.254,"end":42.536,"text":"部長這個去年啊救安基金其實爆出爭議的用3000萬補助高雄市政府辦理活動那我也查到當然後來這是被擋下來了依照會議記錄在前年底的11月23號他有召開一個臨時會議在會中有委員用臨時動議的提案方式就讓這個案子過了那隔年3月1日呢第105次的救安基金的管理會議才又由這個就業平等司提案"},{"start":43.757,"end":60.007,"text":"說要在這個救援基金中提升這個勞工勞工福祉內去調整內容那所需經費4000萬那如果不足的話再以這個決算的方式辦理那部長這個是不是就是先上車後補票先設建後花吧"},{"start":62.534,"end":90.206,"text":"就我們目前業務單位回報說這個25淑女的事件當時的這個案子後來高雄市政府已經主動撤回了對主動撤回嘛但是這個是不是在整個流程整個程序上非常有爭議你認為這個是不是有爭議的事情我已經找出兩次的會議紀錄就舊安基金的把關機制其實我們現在已經開始檢討了部長我想請問一下我也認為這裡面是有一些機制需要強化的狀況把關機不管是事前或事後"},{"start":90.546,"end":104.566,"text":"是部長那我想請問一下那個在這個運用辦法裡面你知道救安基金有哪一些用途嗎?這個移工相關的管理的需求然後提升促進國民就業提升勞動福祉"},{"start":106.508,"end":121.059,"text":"好,他總共有12條,他總共有12條。在舊府法裡面是3個。對,但是在這個辦法裡面,113年的3月11號的修正日期的這個辦法裡面,就案基金的收支保管及運用辦法他總共有12條。是。"},{"start":122.02,"end":150.575,"text":"第一個辦理加強實施職業訓練阿等等的總共12條第12條的部分呢就是其他有關支出我想請問其他有關支出的內涵是什麼可以辦演唱會嗎可以買咖啡嗎還是第二可以嗎跟委員報告這個部分所謂的相關一定是跟前面11款有相關的是很好這個大法官是這樣解釋沒有錯所以可以嗎我剛問這些這些不合理的用法你認為可以嗎部長"},{"start":153.447,"end":176.442,"text":"我們在檢視下來確實覺得有部分的項目是不合理的應該是非常不合理吧當然完全是在這個法之外了吧所以我其實已經要求已經我們已經要求這部分的檢討了所以剛剛這個講得很好其實12款其實這12條應該分兩個層次嘛第一個是不是符合就業安定目的第二個如果符合的情況之下他的手段跟方法是不是適當"},{"start":177.847,"end":204.23,"text":"那其他有關之處其實過去大法官有解釋大法官有解釋嘛就是認為其他用途並不是空白支票必須跟前面11項有這個各款相當這是大法官的見解沒錯嘛對那但是現在看起來這個救安基金就變成所謂勞動部的小金庫甚至是民進黨派系的小金庫我想問一下部長有幾個訴求您可以承諾在3個月內徹查這5年內救安基金的使用用途嗎"},{"start":205.236,"end":212.589,"text":"我們會來徹查然後可不可以公所以您可以三個月內可以公開就是徹查之後然後公開每一筆支出明細嗎"},{"start":215.122,"end":242.98,"text":"呃先讓委員知道其實現在救安基金的使用的狀況目前檢調也在查好那第二個那我們會全力配合所以追究相關人士的責任該送證封送證封該送檢調該送法辦的絕不寬帶您會因為到底對於他有沒有違法的問題這恐怕不是勞動部可以自己說的算的這部分確實檢調在查所以沒錯啊我的訴求也很明確當然不是跟你沒有關係如果有明確的違法的實證我只是說你的態度是不是可以做到這麼公正無私啊該做的"},{"start":243.44,"end":264.863,"text":"就該做不可以寬戴再來就是修法強化救安機制的監督機制避免再被濫用你剛剛有說要檢討那這個部分大概什麼時候你有第三點剛剛其實前面有委員問其實救安基金的監督官機制的強化我們希望在一個月內可以有相關提出相關的這個方案出來"},{"start":266.104,"end":295.072,"text":"是不是可以向全國勞工道歉並提出這個道歉的部分然後具體方案你說一個月內嘛但是我覺得勞動部是不是應該道歉這個就業安定基金已完全的破壞了國人對於國家的信任前幾天才接到有人說他的母親因為因為有身體的需求他去聘僱了外勞那他每個月繳2000塊就業安定基金原來是這樣被政府濫用的所以身為剛上任的部長是不是應該也概括承受向全國勞工朋友道歉"},{"start":298.209,"end":324.556,"text":"我現在是勞動部長我當然該負的責任我當然必須擔起該負的責任那剛剛委員說到說要送政風也好送檢調也好只要有具體的事證再釐清有具體的事證我們絕對不會護短好 但是我希望你應該要代表我們現在的政府真的向全國的勞工朋友和這些雇主們道歉因為這個已經嚴重破壞國家的信任對人民的信任"},{"start":325.922,"end":346.375,"text":"這部分部長你怎麼看?我上任以後的工作勞動部現在當然是在一個很艱困內外很艱困的時刻我的工作就是第一個要把內部安頓好然後能夠重新取得社會大戰對勞動部的信任一級就是說你不願意道歉但是你說你要用行動去證明是不是?"},{"start":347.555,"end":375.469,"text":"這是我的工作所以你不願意不願意為現在過去勞動部造成的這些問題而向國人道歉我的工作是面對問題跟解決問題好部長河沛山這個前部長下台前曾經與諾立法院兩週內綱全案重新調查提出一個新的報告那現在還沒有出爐請問什麼時候可以給國人一個滿腹的滿意的答案目前重新調查重重啟調查的報告會在下週下週公開跟大家說明下週幾我也希望盡快"},{"start":376.71,"end":377.091,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":398.776,"end":418.936,"text":"部長在這個多事之秋你臨為壽命那包含剛剛提到不管是霸凌或是不當挪用經費啊要查水落石出那你也說很積極的要加速了解業務所以召集了部會人員週末向你業務簡報希望你可以更快的融入這個角色那這個內部事項你也交代過應該低調處理卻被"},{"start":421.482,"end":444.554,"text":"公務人員對於媒體披露出來讓大眾知道那也引來了這個經過過勞造成人員輕生處理方式居然還是繼續加班研究解決方案那這些被人家指責是要滑天下之大機我想問部長對這個出發點是想要加快瞭解業務那利益良善也不為過但是卻因為遭到批評你覺得部長你覺得會委屈嗎"},{"start":447.232,"end":475.43,"text":"其實在確實當時同仁們在我們在排這個報告的會議的時候當時是因為我在週間幾乎已經都排不出時間了所以當時其實才不得不排到週末但後來就是跟當時跟蘇昭偉蘇興泉昭偉其實有確認也跟他溝通也謝謝他在我們來未還報告的時間確認是禮拜三以後我們也多一點的時間所以後來我就把"},{"start":476.31,"end":503.949,"text":"這個在週末的會議給取消所以聽起來是覺得有點委屈但是後來也解決了沒有我其實是我也謝謝蘇英璇召委的體諒這部分我想當時我打電話跟蘇召委其實也表達這個事情那後來其實有幾位基層同仁來提醒確實大家在這一從11月初到現在因為這個霸凌北分署的事件其實大家的家長我只想你是不是宣示一下未來是不是都能夠合理分配工作不要"},{"start":504.729,"end":510.211,"text":"關於謝怡榮分署長據媒體報導你也承認說你2月的時候也就是悲劇發生的8個月前你就知道這個事情存在"},{"start":527.065,"end":543.695,"text":"那謝分署長的土皇帝的作為也略有所聞那時候你身為監督行政機關的立法委員為什麼沒有積極負起相關的責任你難道不知道也有可能是因為你沒有積極處理才導致這個悲劇發生你覺得你是不是也要負起一些責任"},{"start":544.892,"end":562.305,"text":"跟委員說明其實這是並不是二月啦其實這是在去年所以更早之前其實是在去年去年其實當時我還在衛環委員會裡面那我們有對於謝分署長的作風有聽聞但並不是針對無姓公務員的事件"},{"start":563.286,"end":581.185,"text":"當時我也不認識吳興公務員是謝分署長在他的分署內相關的作風我們有聽聞可是因為其實並不是有具體的澄清人來跟我澄清那我手上也並沒有具體的證據所以在我當時聽聞的狀況下面當然先跟勞動部做反應跟提醒"},{"start":582.253,"end":608.036,"text":"所以這件事情就是有兩件事要做嘛對不對部長你就是要積極追查另外一個應該要請相關的單位要認真處理對嗎這是一定的對不對但是又有媒體人爆料說打去政風處關心此案卻回嗆說你可能沒有當過公務人員所以你並不了解我們部門執掌的狀況那這個意思就很明顯嘛就是說啊你不懂啊你不要管啊以及這不是我們單位的事情我們政風不管很合理"},{"start":609.417,"end":628.485,"text":"請問部長這個霸凌到底屬不屬於政風該管的事還是因為也沒有人真正可以管所以就從政府不管所以整個勞動部就可以從根爛起開始挪用各種公款買禮物裝修違法亂計請問一下如果政風單位的心態是如此的話那這個事情要怎麼樣好好調查"},{"start":629.565,"end":650.66,"text":"要怎麼樣要怎麼樣好好的整頓部長相關的霸凌案或者是這些不法侵害的案件當然我們會請政風參與政風當然會參與那我覺得相關在這個在溝通的過程裡面也許有一些語氣大家有一些彼此理解上面我覺得可以做的更好的地方當然我們會來要求對"},{"start":652.861,"end":669.805,"text":"部長 如果你去詢問這些單位啊不管是這些人事室啊 政風室啊他可能表面上也不敢這樣跟你講啦就是剛剛那種態度但內心中他是不是會這樣想你會不會覺得洪立委轉成部長他會不會覺得說你一樣沒幹過公務員什麼都不懂你覺得有沒有可能呢"},{"start":671.172,"end":698.312,"text":"我想我到現在在做勞動部這個新的工作其實我很簡單在這個當下勞動部很艱困的當下其實我們就是全力以赴那我很希望的事情就是為其實跟部內的同仁說我們現在就是要重新的凝聚才能夠讓社會信任那我們會一步一步來做部長所以我其實想要問的就是說你覺得你現在上任部長你的新位子你覺得要磨合多久時間"},{"start":700.29,"end":720.627,"text":"其實我想立法院不會給我蜜月期啊所以你覺得你立刻就可以非常的上手對嗎我不敢講說叫做非常上手但是就我來說的話我當然要盡量的減短這中間我熟悉包括熟悉業務的過程因為外界包括現在大家對於霸凌案的高度的關切其實"},{"start":721.488,"end":740.748,"text":"不會給我太多的時間這我非常清楚的是啊部長我也是正面的期許雖然質詢台的左右兩邊兌換只有7步的距離可是事實上你接下來要面臨的是很多很多的挑戰包含你過去講過的話不只是現在的短期內處理霸凌案長期怎麼改善整個的"},{"start":741.829,"end":762.443,"text":"整個的這個文化甚至是這些就業安定基金甚至未來移工問題然後那個年金問題這都是你接下來要面對的好那我想要請問一下其實你剛剛本來有報告裡面好像有說到其實國際國際上沒有其他的國家有相關的這個霸凌的法規"},{"start":764.281,"end":789.575,"text":"是嗎應該說目前我們看到一些國家他比較是針對職權霸凌他比較是針對職權霸凌就是比較是上對下的部分那就我得到訊息但我們可以再做確認就是針對專法的部分事實上是不是可以參考韓國的職場反霸凌法他們在2019年的時候好像有通過這個職場霸凌禁止法或者職場內禁止欺凌法那裡面有說過"},{"start":791.316,"end":806.347,"text":"職場中禁止利用地位或關係優勢給其他勞工帶來身體或精神上的痛苦違法的行為人可能有刑責、刑法或行政法的責任具體來說具體是被認為職場霸凌的行為有威脅、暴行、惡言、誹謗、排擠"},{"start":810.169,"end":825.357,"text":"還有業務過程中被無事排除進行妨礙或指示簡單來說我們要多久的時間我們的勞動部會提出相關的立法版本各位說明現在確實在霸凌的定義上面我請同仁在國際上面的案例"},{"start":825.697,"end":825.897,"text":"主席"},{"start":843.775,"end":848.738,"text":"所以部長你認為大概有多少時間可以給一個報告或是修法立法的方向"},{"start":867.21,"end":880.044,"text":"立法的方向我們當然現在我們現在是很密切的在辦理中啦齁那我我真的是希望盡快啦就是因為但是因為這個法案的內容包括它的路徑到底是要修職職安法還是專章還是專法"},{"start":883.127,"end":906.824,"text":"這裏面不同的路徑其實我們也請這個相關的學者專家正在那我想一下因為通常做事你總是要有一個期程那你自己心裏面你預計你比較希望你多久時間內因為你剛好說一直不斷的研議再研議那到底要研議多久很會研議那研議到什麼時候會給大家一個比較好的改革方向包含你的救安基金也是一樣因為目前聽起來沒有時程就會是空話"},{"start":908.165,"end":935.791,"text":"我自己希望是在如果可以我要在下個會期至少在修法的規劃上有一個比較清楚的路徑下個會期那救安基金的部分呢救安基金的部分我想剛剛說關於把關的機制的強化的這個方案剛才跟有跟文說大概一個月內我們希望一個月內就會有方案好那我們期待到時候真的可以出來一個讓人家滿意的機制改革"},{"start":936.693,"end":960.167,"text":"之前部長你也曾經在臉書發言砲轟交通部開放客運有條件的開放上期休一甚至有機會連上十天當初你是這麼說只要再有一個連開七天以上疲勞駕駛而出人命的案子交通部應該就會被燒了吧但是你在這篇貼文後阿羅哈客運發生了疲勞駕駛三死十三傷"},{"start":961.731,"end":988.756,"text":"運安會也將發布多起物流業的疲勞駕駛車會的報告甚至昨天北市公車長期疲勞駕駛追撞四台機車那這樣子照您的說法交通部這樣惡搞勞基法是不是至少要被火燒好幾回那前部長許明春也表示說不排除廢止這個放寬許可那對於對此這個部長你會主張直接廢止嗎"},{"start":990.013,"end":997.806,"text":"嗯?廢紙哪一個部分?就是不排除這個之前許明春有表示過不排除廢紙放寬許可就是剛剛前面講的這個目前"},{"start":1002.053,"end":1022.158,"text":"跟委員報告目前的話客運的只有允許他在那個輸運的期間因為包括春節期間輸運期間可以有一些例外的一些放寬氣修醫的部分但是都也只在限於輸運期間所以我意思是說這個這就是這樣說部長你的發文嗎就是也是針對這件事嗎那你覺得這個事情你要"},{"start":1022.978,"end":1022.998,"text":"當然謝謝"},{"start":1052.411,"end":1053.501,"text":"好謝謝六位謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"16339","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16339","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc323e8eb5774d58bea9ea4b742e91ab7da82e37f9ba35fd77c7dce7fe20df88135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:30:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:51:00+08:00","duration":12036,"影片長度":"03:20:36","委員發言時間":"08:30:24 - 11:51:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1782.0984687500002,"end":1782.1322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1782.1322187500002,"end":1784.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1784.3259687500001,"end":1785.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1785.0347187500001,"end":1785.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1785.3047187500001,"end":1785.8109687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1785.8109687500003,"end":1786.2497187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1787.1609687500002,"end":1792.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1792.74659375,"end":1798.0115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1798.3997187500001,"end":1803.6140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1803.7659687500002,"end":1807.4784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1807.7653437500003,"end":1813.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1813.1484687500001,"end":1816.9959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1817.4009687500002,"end":1821.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1821.6534687500002,"end":1824.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1825.07909375,"end":1826.8340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1827.1040937500002,"end":1830.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1830.9009687500002,"end":1831.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1832.1834687500002,"end":1838.1234687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1838.4778437500001,"end":1843.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1843.5740937500002,"end":1851.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1851.92721875,"end":1856.6522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1857.0403437500001,"end":1860.7697187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1860.95534375,"end":1864.1447187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1864.6172187500001,"end":1866.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1866.8953437500002,"end":1872.5990937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1872.9872187500002,"end":1877.4590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1877.6953437500001,"end":1881.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1881.9478437500002,"end":1883.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1883.44971875,"end":1885.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1886.0147187500002,"end":1891.5497187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1891.9209687500002,"end":1894.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1894.5028437500002,"end":1896.7472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1897.1015937500001,"end":1902.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1902.5184687500002,"end":1907.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1907.3953437500002,"end":1910.9728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1911.6309687500002,"end":1914.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1914.7022187500002,"end":1920.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1921.0809687500002,"end":1925.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1925.62034375,"end":1930.0584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1930.3790937500003,"end":1939.4915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1940.0484687500002,"end":1944.5372187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":1944.5709687500002,"end":1951.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1953.61596875,"end":1954.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1955.2022187500002,"end":1960.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":1960.0284687500002,"end":1960.6190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1960.6190937500003,"end":1961.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1961.8509687500002,"end":1963.2347187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1966.8628437500001,"end":1968.6347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1968.6853437500001,"end":1970.3897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1971.2840937500002,"end":1973.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1973.8153437500002,"end":1975.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1976.2284687500003,"end":1976.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1977.2240937500003,"end":1980.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1981.2572187500002,"end":1982.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1983.3159687500001,"end":1984.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1986.0834687500003,"end":1989.1040937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1990.0828437500002,"end":1990.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1991.2640937500003,"end":1992.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1993.8628437500001,"end":1997.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":1999.7690937500001,"end":2005.0678437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2006.6878437500002,"end":2008.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2009.03346875,"end":2014.7203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2015.20971875,"end":2018.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2018.5340937500002,"end":2023.9172187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2024.22096875,"end":2025.3178437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2025.9590937500002,"end":2027.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2027.9672187500003,"end":2028.2709687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2029.5028437500002,"end":2033.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2033.8059687500001,"end":2036.4047187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2036.9784687500003,"end":2038.0753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2038.3790937500003,"end":2041.0453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2041.78784375,"end":2050.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2051.9803437500004,"end":2058.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2058.9665937500004,"end":2059.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2068.9734687500004,"end":2069.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2070.99846875,"end":2074.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2074.66034375,"end":2088.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2088.9197187500004,"end":2097.1209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2097.39096875,"end":2098.3865937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2098.9434687500006,"end":2104.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2104.74846875,"end":2107.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2107.8028437500006,"end":2122.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2123.6315937500003,"end":2140.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2141.2322187500004,"end":2144.0840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2144.7253437500003,"end":2146.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2146.88534375,"end":2154.6140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2154.7997187500005,"end":2155.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2156.14971875,"end":2174.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2176.28159375,"end":2191.6209687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2191.94159375,"end":2196.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2197.25721875,"end":2202.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2203.95659375,"end":2209.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2209.72784375,"end":2216.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2216.78159375,"end":2229.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2229.37034375,"end":2268.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2268.62159375,"end":2278.2740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2278.61159375,"end":2285.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2285.6315937500003,"end":2301.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2301.5615937500006,"end":2301.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2301.64596875,"end":2316.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2316.8503437500003,"end":2341.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2341.60596875,"end":2355.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2356.3884687500004,"end":2371.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2372.9597187500003,"end":2378.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2378.96721875,"end":2380.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2380.3847187500005,"end":2397.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2397.4959687500004,"end":2403.8747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2403.92534375,"end":2426.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2427.24659375,"end":2428.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2429.03534375,"end":2436.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2437.2028437500003,"end":2440.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2440.56096875,"end":2451.2597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2451.81659375,"end":2460.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2461.51971875,"end":2462.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2462.92034375,"end":2475.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2476.70721875,"end":2498.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2498.52659375,"end":2508.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2508.4997187500003,"end":2515.3172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2515.72221875,"end":2516.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2516.54909375,"end":2528.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":2529.93096875,"end":2558.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2560.96409375,"end":2561.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2562.60096875,"end":2569.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2570.26221875,"end":2574.0084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2574.34596875,"end":2575.5272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2576.1853437500004,"end":2579.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2580.08346875,"end":2581.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2581.41659375,"end":2583.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2584.2178437500006,"end":2585.8209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2600.6034687500005,"end":2600.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2601.22784375,"end":2603.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2603.9615937500002,"end":2607.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":2607.4715937500005,"end":2608.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2613.2428437500002,"end":2621.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2614.35659375,"end":2614.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":2614.37346875,"end":2614.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2614.66034375,"end":2614.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2618.47409375,"end":2618.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2621.1572187500005,"end":2621.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2621.5115937500004,"end":2621.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2621.6465937500006,"end":2678.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2678.97096875,"end":2684.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2685.3328437500004,"end":2686.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2686.1934687500006,"end":2686.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2686.34534375,"end":2686.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2686.68284375,"end":2686.9190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2686.9190937500007,"end":2686.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2686.93596875,"end":2687.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2687.0372187500006,"end":2687.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.0709687500002,"end":2687.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2688.1678437500004,"end":2690.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2690.3447187500005,"end":2694.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2695.01909375,"end":2749.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2750.6728437500005,"end":2782.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2782.98846875,"end":2783.0390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2783.66346875,"end":2783.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2783.71409375,"end":2784.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2784.6590937500005,"end":2785.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2785.8740937500006,"end":2792.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2792.94471875,"end":2793.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2795.42534375,"end":2797.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2797.58534375,"end":2803.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2803.72784375,"end":2810.0222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2810.29221875,"end":2825.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2818.3415937500004,"end":2818.6622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2824.33221875,"end":2829.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2828.31471875,"end":2834.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2831.16659375,"end":2832.1622187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2833.07346875,"end":2838.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2839.1315937500003,"end":2840.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2840.36346875,"end":2868.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2848.75034375,"end":2849.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2869.35471875,"end":2869.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2869.48971875,"end":2872.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2872.6959687500002,"end":2916.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2874.2147187500004,"end":2875.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":2875.3115937500006,"end":2875.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2916.8240937500004,"end":2916.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2916.97596875,"end":2945.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2945.8153437500005,"end":2955.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2950.25346875,"end":2950.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2952.7003437500007,"end":2953.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2955.29909375,"end":2955.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2955.5859687500006,"end":2984.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2985.4209687500006,"end":2986.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2986.3828437500006,"end":3037.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3016.9265937500004,"end":3017.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3036.4509687500004,"end":3037.0078437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3037.0584687500004,"end":3038.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3038.22284375,"end":3038.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3038.29034375,"end":3040.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3038.5772187500006,"end":3041.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3041.54721875,"end":3057.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3057.51096875,"end":3075.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3075.76971875,"end":3091.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3091.6490937500002,"end":3139.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3140.80596875,"end":3140.9747187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3140.9747187500006,"end":3173.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3173.0372187500006,"end":3173.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3174.45471875,"end":3174.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3175.5009687500005,"end":3178.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3179.6690937500007,"end":3183.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3186.1490937500002,"end":3214.8534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3187.33034375,"end":3188.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3217.84034375,"end":3219.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3219.9665937500004,"end":3220.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3220.0340937500005,"end":3220.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3220.2197187500005,"end":3220.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3220.5909687500007,"end":3220.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3220.60784375,"end":3220.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3220.65846875,"end":3221.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3220.7428437500002,"end":3235.9472187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3234.04034375,"end":3234.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3236.28471875,"end":3247.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3243.62534375,"end":3244.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3245.3634687500007,"end":3246.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3246.88221875,"end":3263.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3264.06096875,"end":3271.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3272.4140937500006,"end":3285.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3286.2178437500006,"end":3287.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3287.9728437500007,"end":3313.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3290.26784375,"end":3291.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3314.2303437500004,"end":3337.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3337.0284687500007,"end":3363.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3364.0622187500003,"end":3366.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3364.4334687500004,"end":3365.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3367.60596875,"end":3368.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3368.5509687500007,"end":3372.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3379.8740937500006,"end":3384.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3383.7722187500003,"end":3383.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3385.13909375,"end":3386.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3385.91534375,"end":3390.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3391.0622187500003,"end":3393.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3393.32346875,"end":3394.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3393.7959687500006,"end":3399.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3395.75346875,"end":3396.1247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":3396.6309687500006,"end":3396.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3399.8034687500003,"end":3402.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3402.8915937500005,"end":3408.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3407.66721875,"end":3407.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3409.30409375,"end":3409.8947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3410.7722187500003,"end":3424.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":3413.05034375,"end":3413.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3425.26784375,"end":3439.0378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3440.21909375,"end":3446.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3447.5597187500007,"end":3447.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3447.57659375,"end":3459.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3458.66346875,"end":3459.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3459.2372187500005,"end":3461.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3459.6759687500007,"end":3466.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3466.5778437500003,"end":3472.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3472.6697187500004,"end":3473.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3473.54721875,"end":3476.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3476.43284375,"end":3497.4590937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3496.5478437500005,"end":3502.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3498.62346875,"end":3498.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3498.6572187500005,"end":3499.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3499.72034375,"end":3499.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3499.8047187500006,"end":3500.1759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3502.42034375,"end":3504.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3505.6603437500007,"end":3508.4784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3510.4528437500003,"end":3511.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3514.0303437500006,"end":3540.6759687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3519.5147187500006,"end":3519.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3541.4522187500006,"end":3542.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3542.7853437500007,"end":3545.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3545.4684687500003,"end":3550.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3551.61096875,"end":3559.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3559.86284375,"end":3561.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3562.07346875,"end":3563.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3563.82846875,"end":3567.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3567.7940937500007,"end":3569.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3569.6503437500005,"end":3571.5909687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3571.84409375,"end":3573.0759687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3573.8522187500002,"end":3574.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3574.44284375,"end":3575.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3575.77596875,"end":3576.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3576.78846875,"end":3579.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3580.7540937500007,"end":3581.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3581.3278437500003,"end":3581.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3581.96909375,"end":3593.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3594.8953437500004,"end":3596.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3596.7178437500006,"end":3598.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3600.9365937500006,"end":3601.9659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3602.59034375,"end":3602.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3603.41721875,"end":3603.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3603.43409375,"end":3603.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3603.4509687500004,"end":3603.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3603.97409375,"end":3608.3953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3608.7665937500005,"end":3609.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3610.23471875,"end":3613.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3615.3984687500006,"end":3615.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3615.53346875,"end":3617.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3615.6853437500004,"end":3615.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3616.4615937500002,"end":3616.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3617.5078437500006,"end":3622.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3622.77284375,"end":3624.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3625.79346875,"end":3626.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3629.4215937500003,"end":3631.8347187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3634.7372187500005,"end":3647.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3637.7072187500007,"end":3638.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3648.55784375,"end":3652.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3653.1309687500006,"end":3657.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3658.2272187500002,"end":3658.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3659.3409687500007,"end":3661.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3661.83846875,"end":3672.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3673.0603437500004,"end":3678.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3681.9197187500004,"end":3681.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3681.9365937500006,"end":3682.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3683.6915937500007,"end":3685.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3685.4803437500004,"end":3688.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3689.3953437500004,"end":3694.6603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3693.64784375,"end":3694.8122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3694.8122187500003,"end":3694.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3694.8797187500004,"end":3694.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3695.04846875,"end":3695.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3695.3522187500002,"end":3695.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3695.4365937500006,"end":3695.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3695.4872187500005,"end":3695.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3695.57159375,"end":3708.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3708.3797187500004,"end":3709.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3710.21909375,"end":3712.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3712.4297187500006,"end":3714.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3715.77096875,"end":3716.3278437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3716.91846875,"end":3717.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3717.74534375,"end":3768.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3768.9440937500003,"end":3770.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3770.85096875,"end":3772.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3772.47096875,"end":3773.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3774.22596875,"end":3778.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3779.1534687500007,"end":3789.5822187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3790.1222187500007,"end":3817.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3818.1853437500004,"end":3819.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3819.6534687500007,"end":3831.2297187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3830.52096875,"end":3838.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3831.5672187500004,"end":3833.0353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3839.32971875,"end":3841.0509687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3841.54034375,"end":3841.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3842.40096875,"end":3846.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3847.3790937500007,"end":3848.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3849.15096875,"end":3850.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3852.3572187500004,"end":3882.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3882.8672187500006,"end":3884.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3885.29721875,"end":3887.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3888.01409375,"end":3904.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3900.8222187500005,"end":3901.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3905.1759687500007,"end":3906.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3906.6103437500005,"end":3909.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3910.20471875,"end":3912.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3912.2803437500006,"end":3912.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3913.44471875,"end":3915.7228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3916.27971875,"end":3916.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3916.9715937500005,"end":3920.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3920.97096875,"end":3921.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3921.4940937500005,"end":3924.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3925.4765937500006,"end":3926.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3926.8434687500003,"end":3931.4503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3931.3659687500003,"end":3931.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3931.4503437500007,"end":3933.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3933.82971875,"end":3935.1290937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":3935.5847187500003,"end":3940.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3939.8709687500004,"end":3944.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3945.4734687500004,"end":3953.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3954.43409375,"end":3956.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3957.55596875,"end":3959.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3959.24346875,"end":3980.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3961.5722187500005,"end":3962.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3982.09221875,"end":3983.1047187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3984.3028437500006,"end":3985.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3985.72034375,"end":3987.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3988.47096875,"end":3989.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3992.5547187500006,"end":3993.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3993.7022187500006,"end":3996.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":3996.8409687500007,"end":4006.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4006.4259687500007,"end":4015.5553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4015.9772187500002,"end":4023.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4024.58346875,"end":4052.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4052.8659687500003,"end":4057.8272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4060.9997187500003,"end":4064.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4064.4590937500006,"end":4066.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4066.72034375,"end":4067.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4069.42034375,"end":4071.6984687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4071.90096875,"end":4075.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4071.95159375,"end":4072.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4073.52096875,"end":4073.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4075.7822187500005,"end":4080.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4080.7097187500003,"end":4089.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4090.1934687500006,"end":4109.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4109.717843750001,"end":4110.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4110.595343749999,"end":4126.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4127.234093749999,"end":4135.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4136.31284375,"end":4138.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4138.94534375,"end":4140.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4141.56096875,"end":4143.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4144.27784375,"end":4154.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4154.97659375,"end":4156.157843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4156.545968750001,"end":4157.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4157.659718749999,"end":4161.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4162.84034375,"end":4164.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4164.52784375,"end":4167.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4168.29096875,"end":4169.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4170.450968749999,"end":4172.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4174.18034375,"end":4175.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4175.26034375,"end":4180.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4180.60971875,"end":4181.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4181.6728437500005,"end":4183.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4183.731593750001,"end":4199.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4199.93159375,"end":4207.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4207.42409375,"end":4207.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":4207.60971875,"end":4207.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4207.66034375,"end":4207.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4208.200343750001,"end":4209.972218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4209.972218749999,"end":4210.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4210.93409375,"end":4213.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4214.0897187499995,"end":4214.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4214.950343750001,"end":4215.456593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4215.7772187499995,"end":4223.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4223.16846875,"end":4230.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4231.15034375,"end":4231.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4232.517218749999,"end":4234.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4234.204718749999,"end":4235.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4236.48284375,"end":4239.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4240.161593750001,"end":4242.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4242.794093750001,"end":4243.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4243.907843749999,"end":4244.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4245.34221875,"end":4246.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4246.97909375,"end":4247.569718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4247.569718750001,"end":4247.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4247.82284375,"end":4248.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4248.02534375,"end":4248.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4248.700343750001,"end":4248.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4248.71721875,"end":4248.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4248.734093749999,"end":4253.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4251.19784375,"end":4259.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4260.20909375,"end":4262.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4271.68409375,"end":4276.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4276.915343750001,"end":4280.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4281.20159375,"end":4285.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4285.79159375,"end":4289.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4285.8759687500005,"end":4286.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4287.02346875,"end":4287.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4290.21284375,"end":4292.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4293.33471875,"end":4296.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4293.368468750001,"end":4293.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4294.819718750001,"end":4295.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4296.186593750001,"end":4301.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4302.126593749999,"end":4307.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4308.06659375,"end":4309.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4310.31096875,"end":4313.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4315.626593749999,"end":4317.128468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4317.98909375,"end":4319.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4319.32221875,"end":4322.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4323.10221875,"end":4324.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4325.21159375,"end":4326.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4326.44346875,"end":4328.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4330.122218750001,"end":4332.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4334.374718749999,"end":4335.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4335.505343750001,"end":4337.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4338.62721875,"end":4341.175343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4341.175343749999,"end":4342.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4341.20909375,"end":4343.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4342.98096875,"end":4343.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4343.36909375,"end":4343.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4343.419718749999,"end":4343.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4343.45346875,"end":4346.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4347.58784375,"end":4348.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4348.718468749999,"end":4350.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4350.591593749999,"end":4356.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":4357.729718750001,"end":4359.315968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4361.67846875,"end":4363.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4364.294093750001,"end":4364.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4365.137843750001,"end":4365.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4368.10784375,"end":4371.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4371.8709687499995,"end":4373.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4375.077218750001,"end":4376.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4377.270968750001,"end":4381.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4381.55721875,"end":4383.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4383.7509687500005,"end":4385.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4385.97846875,"end":4386.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4386.687218749999,"end":4387.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4387.93596875,"end":4395.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4396.18784375,"end":4396.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4396.69409375,"end":4397.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4397.520968750001,"end":4398.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4398.685343749999,"end":4400.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4400.87909375,"end":4402.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4405.13159375,"end":4405.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4405.60409375,"end":4405.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4406.36346875,"end":4406.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4406.9540937500005,"end":4407.595343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4407.966593749999,"end":4410.126593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4410.5653437500005,"end":4410.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4411.020968750001,"end":4412.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4413.231593750001,"end":4415.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4414.83471875,"end":4416.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4416.85971875,"end":4416.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4416.876593749999,"end":4417.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4417.247843749999,"end":4417.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4417.298468749999,"end":4418.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4418.192843750001,"end":4418.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4418.952218750001,"end":4420.302218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4420.8084687499995,"end":4422.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4422.7997187500005,"end":4423.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4426.680968750001,"end":4427.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4428.16596875,"end":4429.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4430.899718750001,"end":4431.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4431.794093750001,"end":4432.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4432.722218749999,"end":4433.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4433.65034375,"end":4434.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4434.325343750001,"end":4439.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4440.029093749999,"end":4442.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4443.62346875,"end":4445.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4445.952218750001,"end":4446.829718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4448.17971875,"end":4450.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4451.655968749999,"end":4454.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4454.82846875,"end":4455.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4455.925343749999,"end":4459.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4461.42659375,"end":4464.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4465.24034375,"end":4467.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4468.32846875,"end":4473.8465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4475.9559687500005,"end":4475.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4475.97284375,"end":4476.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4476.968468749999,"end":4480.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4481.08596875,"end":4483.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4483.93784375,"end":4486.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4487.144093749999,"end":4487.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4488.274718750001,"end":4488.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4489.23659375,"end":4492.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4493.472218749999,"end":4495.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4495.83471875,"end":4496.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4496.93159375,"end":4497.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4498.585343750001,"end":4498.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4499.091593749999,"end":4499.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4500.23909375,"end":4501.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4501.50471875,"end":4506.128468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4506.61784375,"end":4509.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4509.48659375,"end":4513.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4514.1103437500005,"end":4515.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4516.017218749999,"end":4516.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4517.282843749999,"end":4518.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4518.885968750001,"end":4519.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4520.40471875,"end":4520.944718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4521.315968749999,"end":4522.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4523.189093749999,"end":4524.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4524.99471875,"end":4525.349093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4525.484093749999,"end":4526.715968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4527.34034375,"end":4530.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4530.360968749999,"end":4531.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4532.149718750001,"end":4532.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4533.43221875,"end":4534.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4535.659718749999,"end":4537.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4537.769093749999,"end":4538.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4538.86596875,"end":4539.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4539.4228437500005,"end":4540.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4542.595343749999,"end":4543.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4544.0634687500005,"end":4544.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4544.95784375,"end":4545.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4545.66659375,"end":4547.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4547.69159375,"end":4548.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4549.69971875,"end":4550.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4552.635968750001,"end":4553.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4554.20534375,"end":4554.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4557.63096875,"end":4558.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4558.84596875,"end":4561.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4562.2040937500005,"end":4563.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4563.8915937500005,"end":4565.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4565.68034375,"end":4566.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4567.215968750001,"end":4568.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4568.83596875,"end":4571.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4572.936593750001,"end":4573.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4574.4384687500005,"end":4575.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4576.46346875,"end":4577.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4578.11721875,"end":4579.112843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4579.484093749999,"end":4580.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4580.39534375,"end":4581.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4581.458468750001,"end":4582.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4582.42034375,"end":4583.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4583.331593749999,"end":4585.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4585.592843750001,"end":4586.655968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4587.179093750001,"end":4591.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4591.83659375,"end":4592.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4593.81096875,"end":4594.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4595.22846875,"end":4598.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4599.278468750001,"end":4600.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4601.40471875,"end":4602.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4603.581593749999,"end":4604.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4606.214093750001,"end":4606.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4607.5809687500005,"end":4608.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4609.4540937500005,"end":4611.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4613.03159375,"end":4615.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4615.5965937500005,"end":4616.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4616.40659375,"end":4616.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4617.09846875,"end":4618.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4620.52409375,"end":4621.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4622.54909375,"end":4622.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4623.139718750001,"end":4625.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4625.97471875,"end":4627.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4627.544093750001,"end":4629.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4630.41284375,"end":4633.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4634.091593749999,"end":4635.222218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4635.559718750001,"end":4636.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4637.50034375,"end":4638.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4638.749093750001,"end":4639.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4640.95971875,"end":4643.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4643.9803437499995,"end":4645.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4645.80284375,"end":4648.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4648.958468750001,"end":4650.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4650.66284375,"end":4652.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4653.700343750001,"end":4654.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4654.45971875,"end":4654.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4655.53971875,"end":4656.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4657.04159375,"end":4658.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4659.083468750001,"end":4660.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4661.429093750001,"end":4663.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4664.58471875,"end":4666.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4668.837218750001,"end":4669.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4670.0184687500005,"end":4673.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4674.692843750001,"end":4675.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4675.97534375,"end":4676.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4676.9540937500005,"end":4679.519093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4679.63721875,"end":4692.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4692.58034375,"end":4692.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4692.732218749999,"end":4693.440968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4693.913468750001,"end":4694.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4694.92596875,"end":4697.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4698.38534375,"end":4702.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4702.874093750001,"end":4703.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4703.41409375,"end":4704.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4704.52784375,"end":4706.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4707.37971875,"end":4708.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4708.93221875,"end":4710.2147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4712.59409375,"end":4713.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4713.80909375,"end":4714.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4715.7665937500005,"end":4715.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4715.78346875,"end":4716.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4716.07034375,"end":4716.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4716.39096875,"end":4716.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4716.62721875,"end":4717.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4717.47096875,"end":4718.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4719.29346875,"end":4721.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4721.520968750001,"end":4722.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4724.153468750001,"end":4724.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4725.216593749999,"end":4727.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4727.44409375,"end":4727.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4728.62534375,"end":4730.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4731.831593750001,"end":4732.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4732.69221875,"end":4733.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4733.82284375,"end":4734.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4734.21096875,"end":4735.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4735.84784375,"end":4736.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4736.472218750001,"end":4739.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4740.4715937500005,"end":4740.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4741.450343750001,"end":4741.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4742.243468750001,"end":4746.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4746.934718750001,"end":4749.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4749.8709687499995,"end":4751.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4752.43596875,"end":4753.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4753.920968750001,"end":4754.984093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4756.857218749999,"end":4759.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4759.860968749999,"end":4761.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4764.029093749999,"end":4764.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4764.602843750001,"end":4766.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4766.526593750001,"end":4767.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4768.18034375,"end":4768.821593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4769.86784375,"end":4772.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4769.985968749999,"end":4770.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4772.753468750001,"end":4776.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4776.29721875,"end":4778.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4778.4403437500005,"end":4778.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4778.946593750001,"end":4797.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4781.03909375,"end":4781.798468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4782.3553437499995,"end":4783.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4785.1903437500005,"end":4785.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4785.91596875,"end":4785.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4789.020968750001,"end":4789.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4789.864718750001,"end":4790.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4797.52596875,"end":4800.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4801.6434687500005,"end":4804.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4804.83284375,"end":4807.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4808.68034375,"end":4809.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4809.86159375,"end":4814.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4815.548468749999,"end":4816.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4817.03346875,"end":4818.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4819.210343750001,"end":4821.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4821.72471875,"end":4822.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4822.78784375,"end":4823.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4827.327218750001,"end":4828.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4829.21721875,"end":4830.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4830.786593750001,"end":4833.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4835.055968750001,"end":4836.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4836.321593750001,"end":4836.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4836.57471875,"end":4837.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4837.94159375,"end":4838.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4839.038468750001,"end":4839.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4840.017218749999,"end":4840.860968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4841.519093750001,"end":4842.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4842.227843750001,"end":4842.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4842.37971875,"end":4842.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4843.24034375,"end":4843.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4844.48909375,"end":4848.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4849.55159375,"end":4851.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4851.4247187500005,"end":4854.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4854.58034375,"end":4855.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4856.58846875,"end":4857.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4857.95534375,"end":4858.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4860.35159375,"end":4863.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4863.52409375,"end":4867.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4868.2997187500005,"end":4869.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4870.071593750001,"end":4875.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4875.53909375,"end":4879.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4880.44971875,"end":4881.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4882.32284375,"end":4883.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4883.68971875,"end":4885.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4887.4022187499995,"end":4888.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4888.9715937500005,"end":4889.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4890.10221875,"end":4891.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4892.65034375,"end":4894.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4895.097218750001,"end":4897.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4898.26971875,"end":4900.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4900.98659375,"end":4902.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4903.70346875,"end":4904.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4906.909718750001,"end":4907.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4908.310343749999,"end":4911.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4911.651593750001,"end":4913.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4913.4403437500005,"end":4915.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4916.30909375,"end":4920.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4920.966593749999,"end":4925.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4925.97846875,"end":4928.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4930.65284375,"end":4932.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4930.720343749999,"end":4931.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4932.49221875,"end":4932.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4933.167218750001,"end":4933.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4934.010968750001,"end":4935.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4935.66471875,"end":4936.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4937.31846875,"end":4938.415343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4938.837218750001,"end":4939.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4940.40659375,"end":4943.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4944.30471875,"end":4949.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4950.19409375,"end":4950.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4950.58221875,"end":4951.577843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4952.100968750001,"end":4954.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4955.661593750001,"end":4956.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4956.555968750001,"end":4958.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4959.44159375,"end":4960.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4961.17971875,"end":4963.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4964.1834687499995,"end":4964.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4965.01034375,"end":4965.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4965.044093750001,"end":4967.609093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4968.368468750001,"end":4970.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4970.17409375,"end":4972.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4972.65471875,"end":4972.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4972.84034375,"end":4972.857218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4972.857218749999,"end":4972.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4972.874093750001,"end":4972.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4973.81909375,"end":4979.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4979.3709687499995,"end":4979.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4981.88534375,"end":4983.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4983.083468750001,"end":4985.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4984.99034375,"end":4985.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4985.1590937500005,"end":4985.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4985.26034375,"end":4985.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4985.2772187499995,"end":4985.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4985.429093750001,"end":4988.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4988.02784375,"end":4988.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4989.58034375,"end":4993.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4993.66409375,"end":4995.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4995.90846875,"end":4999.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4998.15284375,"end":5002.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5001.47721875,"end":5003.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5003.73846875,"end":5005.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5004.21096875,"end":5006.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5006.26971875,"end":5006.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5008.00784375,"end":5011.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5012.243468750001,"end":5015.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5015.77034375,"end":5025.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5025.405968749999,"end":5030.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5030.35034375,"end":5031.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5031.95346875,"end":5032.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5033.06721875,"end":5033.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5034.079718749999,"end":5035.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5036.07096875,"end":5036.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5036.999093750001,"end":5038.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5038.18034375,"end":5039.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5039.614718750001,"end":5040.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5041.960343750001,"end":5042.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5044.32284375,"end":5045.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5045.807843750001,"end":5051.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5052.72659375,"end":5056.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5057.13096875,"end":5058.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5059.780343750001,"end":5061.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5062.632218750001,"end":5063.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5063.25659375,"end":5065.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5065.7372187500005,"end":5066.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5067.5428437499995,"end":5071.812218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5072.099093750001,"end":5085.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5085.700343750001,"end":5087.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5089.32846875,"end":5090.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5091.67409375,"end":5093.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5093.31096875,"end":5096.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5096.669093750001,"end":5102.001593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5102.052218750001,"end":5105.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5105.62971875,"end":5106.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5107.89096875,"end":5118.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5108.65034375,"end":5108.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5108.667218750001,"end":5109.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5109.038468750001,"end":5109.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5113.61159375,"end":5113.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5118.70784375,"end":5126.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5124.90096875,"end":5126.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5126.79096875,"end":5126.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5126.82471875,"end":5126.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5126.87534375,"end":5126.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5126.97659375,"end":5132.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5132.663468750001,"end":5138.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5139.514718750001,"end":5139.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5139.970343749999,"end":5143.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5143.294718749999,"end":5144.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5144.02034375,"end":5144.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5144.03721875,"end":5157.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5144.44221875,"end":5145.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5147.22659375,"end":5147.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5147.243468750001,"end":5147.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5154.48284375,"end":5155.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5155.765343749999,"end":5156.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5157.419093750001,"end":5158.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5158.583468750001,"end":5159.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5159.30909375,"end":5161.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5161.300343750001,"end":5163.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5163.44346875,"end":5170.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5167.780343750001,"end":5168.522843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5170.0584687499995,"end":5170.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5170.1259687500005,"end":5170.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5170.9697187500005,"end":5171.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5171.712218750001,"end":5181.735968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5182.51221875,"end":5184.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5182.579718749999,"end":5190.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5188.772843750001,"end":5189.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5190.561593750001,"end":5190.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5190.966593749999,"end":5191.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5191.1522187499995,"end":5191.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5191.27034375,"end":5191.439093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5192.097218750001,"end":5194.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5192.569718750001,"end":5197.109093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5197.59846875,"end":5198.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5198.762843750001,"end":5200.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5201.3447187500005,"end":5202.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5202.930968750001,"end":5206.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5207.45346875,"end":5208.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5210.06909375,"end":5212.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5213.714093750001,"end":5217.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5213.764718750001,"end":5214.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5216.295968750001,"end":5218.4559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5220.5653437500005,"end":5222.286593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5223.75471875,"end":5224.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5225.17221875,"end":5225.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5225.374718749999,"end":5225.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5225.86409375,"end":5226.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5227.56846875,"end":5229.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5230.94346875,"end":5233.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5234.53784375,"end":5235.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5235.56721875,"end":5237.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5237.03534375,"end":5238.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5237.67659375,"end":5240.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":5238.790343750001,"end":5239.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5239.17846875,"end":5240.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5240.44409375,"end":5240.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5240.78159375,"end":5242.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5242.165343750001,"end":5242.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5242.452218750001,"end":5242.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5242.65471875,"end":5244.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5245.776593750001,"end":5248.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5248.358468750001,"end":5251.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5251.88534375,"end":5253.741593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5254.04534375,"end":5254.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5255.31096875,"end":5256.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5256.795968750001,"end":5257.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5257.99409375,"end":5259.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5259.39471875,"end":5263.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5264.760968750001,"end":5266.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5265.419093750001,"end":5265.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5266.212218750001,"end":5269.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5270.49846875,"end":5271.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5272.0340937500005,"end":5273.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5274.1434687500005,"end":5275.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5276.202218750001,"end":5277.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5279.17221875,"end":5281.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5283.15471875,"end":5283.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5284.065968750001,"end":5285.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5285.483468750001,"end":5286.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5286.833468750001,"end":5287.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5287.727843750001,"end":5289.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5289.48284375,"end":5290.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5290.950968749999,"end":5290.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5290.967843750001,"end":5291.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5291.710343750001,"end":5292.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5292.33471875,"end":5294.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5295.05159375,"end":5296.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5297.97096875,"end":5300.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5300.78909375,"end":5301.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5302.56096875,"end":5303.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5304.06284375,"end":5306.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5306.83034375,"end":5309.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5309.17596875,"end":5313.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5314.00221875,"end":5314.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5315.16659375,"end":5316.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5317.51221875,"end":5322.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5323.165343750001,"end":5325.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5325.10596875,"end":5326.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5325.44346875,"end":5332.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5332.345343749999,"end":5333.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5332.530968749999,"end":5332.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5333.59409375,"end":5333.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5334.15096875,"end":5341.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5341.019093750001,"end":5342.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5342.03159375,"end":5342.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5342.234093749999,"end":5342.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5342.655968749999,"end":5351.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5348.376593749999,"end":5348.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5348.96721875,"end":5349.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5349.10221875,"end":5349.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5350.536593750001,"end":5350.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5350.587218750001,"end":5350.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5350.89096875,"end":5350.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5351.667218750001,"end":5352.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5352.02159375,"end":5353.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5353.50659375,"end":5353.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5353.89471875,"end":5354.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5356.493468750001,"end":5359.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5370.43221875,"end":5375.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5372.710343750001,"end":5372.760968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5372.760968750001,"end":5372.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5372.8622187500005,"end":5372.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5374.954718749999,"end":5374.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5374.9715937500005,"end":5375.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5376.20346875,"end":5378.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5379.359093749999,"end":5380.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":5380.776593750001,"end":5381.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5381.0634687500005,"end":5395.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5396.58846875,"end":5398.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5396.655968749999,"end":5396.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5397.48284375,"end":5399.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":5400.419093750001,"end":5400.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5400.80721875,"end":5401.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5404.57034375,"end":5405.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5405.329718749999,"end":5405.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5405.852843750001,"end":5410.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5410.88159375,"end":5413.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5413.61534375,"end":5420.095343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5421.512843750001,"end":5422.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5423.335343750001,"end":5436.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5437.24034375,"end":5448.782843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5449.13721875,"end":5451.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5453.423468749999,"end":5454.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5454.132218750001,"end":5457.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5457.47346875,"end":5459.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5459.86971875,"end":5461.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5461.97909375,"end":5463.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5463.71721875,"end":5472.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5473.403468750001,"end":5481.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5481.8915937500005,"end":5482.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5483.62971875,"end":5485.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5486.68409375,"end":5488.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5488.911593750001,"end":5490.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5490.734093749999,"end":5510.764718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5511.743468750001,"end":5521.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5522.83034375,"end":5523.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5523.80909375,"end":5529.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5529.81659375,"end":5531.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5532.5165937500005,"end":5534.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5535.267218749999,"end":5536.954718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5537.325968749999,"end":5538.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5538.557843750001,"end":5544.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5544.5653437500005,"end":5550.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5550.6572187500005,"end":5552.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5552.952218750001,"end":5555.702843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5555.9559687500005,"end":5580.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5581.09971875,"end":5583.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5584.2215937500005,"end":5586.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5587.3603437500005,"end":5590.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5591.86596875,"end":5592.99659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5593.84034375,"end":5600.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5603.22284375,"end":5604.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5607.57659375,"end":5609.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5609.68596875,"end":5614.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5614.42784375,"end":5616.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5616.840968750001,"end":5617.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5618.764718750001,"end":5622.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5623.962218750001,"end":5625.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5627.03346875,"end":5628.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5628.045968750001,"end":5628.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5628.06284375,"end":5628.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5629.159718750001,"end":5629.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5629.919093750001,"end":5631.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5634.05346875,"end":5641.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5640.95534375,"end":5643.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5641.88346875,"end":5642.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5645.27534375,"end":5646.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5647.485968749999,"end":5648.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5649.460343750001,"end":5651.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5651.940968750001,"end":5652.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5653.8309687500005,"end":5654.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5655.56909375,"end":5672.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5672.8153437500005,"end":5677.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5676.94971875,"end":5677.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5677.962218750001,"end":5678.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5678.02971875,"end":5678.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5678.805968750001,"end":5680.814093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5681.4384687500005,"end":5686.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5685.454718749999,"end":5686.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5686.99034375,"end":5689.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5689.57221875,"end":5690.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5691.9853437500005,"end":5693.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5693.892218749999,"end":5695.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5697.16596875,"end":5698.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5698.88721875,"end":5701.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5702.4647187499995,"end":5705.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5705.35034375,"end":5707.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5709.77159375,"end":5710.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5711.475968750001,"end":5720.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5719.812218749999,"end":5721.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5721.61784375,"end":5723.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5724.57096875,"end":5726.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5726.612843750001,"end":5728.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5728.637843750001,"end":5729.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5730.274718750001,"end":5733.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5734.206593750001,"end":5735.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5736.56909375,"end":5737.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5738.35784375,"end":5739.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5739.4715937500005,"end":5741.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5744.095343749999,"end":5745.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5746.08659375,"end":5746.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5746.964093750001,"end":5746.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5748.11159375,"end":5748.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5748.128468750001,"end":5749.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5749.3603437500005,"end":5770.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5755.350968750001,"end":5758.354718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5770.97721875,"end":5772.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5772.4959687499995,"end":5772.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5775.685343749999,"end":5780.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5780.96721875,"end":5782.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5782.9247187500005,"end":5789.185343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5791.41284375,"end":5792.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5792.897843750001,"end":5793.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5794.5009687500005,"end":5797.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5799.0740937499995,"end":5800.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5800.592843750001,"end":5803.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5803.56284375,"end":5805.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5807.22471875,"end":5808.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5809.1990937499995,"end":5811.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5811.932843750001,"end":5814.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5814.936593750001,"end":5818.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5819.948468750001,"end":5821.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5824.65659375,"end":5826.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5827.27221875,"end":5830.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5831.92971875,"end":5835.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5836.536593750001,"end":5837.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5837.717843750001,"end":5840.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5841.092843750001,"end":5842.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5843.45534375,"end":5845.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5847.10034375,"end":5851.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5852.41596875,"end":5859.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5859.85784375,"end":5859.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5859.975968750001,"end":5861.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5861.1572187500005,"end":5861.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5861.30909375,"end":5862.220343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5861.325968749999,"end":5862.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5862.25409375,"end":5862.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5862.270968750001,"end":5862.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5862.96284375,"end":5863.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5864.83596875,"end":5866.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5865.561593750001,"end":5868.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5868.19409375,"end":5869.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5870.03346875,"end":5873.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5873.93159375,"end":5873.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5873.948468750001,"end":5873.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5873.96534375,"end":5873.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5873.982218749999,"end":5876.850968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5877.171593749999,"end":5878.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5878.403468750001,"end":5880.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5881.255343750001,"end":5883.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5883.837218750001,"end":5888.376593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5889.05159375,"end":5893.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5895.16034375,"end":5895.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5897.03346875,"end":5900.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5900.003468750001,"end":5902.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5903.850968750001,"end":5905.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5906.567843750001,"end":5908.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5909.79096875,"end":5911.495343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5911.967843750001,"end":5912.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5913.58784375,"end":5916.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5916.94596875,"end":5919.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5920.590968750001,"end":5925.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5926.3622187500005,"end":5928.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5929.534718750001,"end":5931.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5932.403468750001,"end":5938.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5939.760968750001,"end":5940.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5941.5497187500005,"end":5943.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5944.14846875,"end":5944.6209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5945.78534375,"end":5947.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5947.810343749999,"end":5950.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5951.30346875,"end":5954.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5954.999093750001,"end":5955.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5955.10034375,"end":5957.985968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5960.2978437500005,"end":5961.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5961.411593750001,"end":5961.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5963.385968750001,"end":5982.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5981.526593750001,"end":5985.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5986.23471875,"end":5986.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5986.65659375,"end":5991.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5991.80346875,"end":6001.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6002.68784375,"end":6006.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6007.109093749999,"end":6012.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6011.07471875,"end":6015.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6015.29346875,"end":6016.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6017.68971875,"end":6022.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6023.35971875,"end":6025.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6025.300343750001,"end":6029.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6030.075968749999,"end":6032.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6032.4384687500005,"end":6035.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6035.88096875,"end":6037.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6037.88909375,"end":6038.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6039.458468750001,"end":6042.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6043.3397187499995,"end":6047.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6048.081593750001,"end":6050.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6050.46096875,"end":6052.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6053.54909375,"end":6054.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6056.569718750001,"end":6058.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6058.89846875,"end":6073.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6065.1590937500005,"end":6065.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6074.5584687499995,"end":6076.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6076.80284375,"end":6077.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6077.663468750001,"end":6077.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6081.34221875,"end":6084.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6099.53346875,"end":6101.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6102.2840937500005,"end":6103.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6106.73909375,"end":6107.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6107.802218750001,"end":6111.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6109.624718749999,"end":6109.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6111.970343750001,"end":6118.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6119.36159375,"end":6123.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6123.732218749999,"end":6124.154093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6125.11596875,"end":6125.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6127.680968750001,"end":6137.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6139.155968749999,"end":6141.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6141.24846875,"end":6143.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6144.62346875,"end":6150.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6151.069718750001,"end":6164.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6165.3290937500005,"end":6166.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6166.999718749999,"end":6168.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6169.09221875,"end":6171.218468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6171.404093749999,"end":6175.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6175.09971875,"end":6175.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6176.55096875,"end":6177.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6177.66471875,"end":6179.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6181.5965937500005,"end":6184.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6185.140343749999,"end":6195.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6195.923468750001,"end":6199.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6200.327843749999,"end":6201.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6201.779093749999,"end":6203.196593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6203.41596875,"end":6211.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6211.347218750001,"end":6211.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6211.583468750001,"end":6227.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6226.686593750001,"end":6237.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6228.05346875,"end":6228.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6238.56659375,"end":6241.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6241.84034375,"end":6244.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6244.47284375,"end":6245.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6246.075968749999,"end":6247.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6247.442843750001,"end":6251.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6251.07096875,"end":6258.749093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6252.319718750001,"end":6253.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6255.374093750001,"end":6255.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6259.08659375,"end":6261.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6262.259093750001,"end":6274.493468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6267.743468750001,"end":6267.7772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6267.7772187499995,"end":6268.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6269.616593750001,"end":6270.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6273.86909375,"end":6276.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6276.75471875,"end":6278.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6278.2059687500005,"end":6280.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6279.48846875,"end":6287.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6285.39471875,"end":6288.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6288.01034375,"end":6291.317843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6290.4403437500005,"end":6293.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6294.2372187500005,"end":6295.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6297.122843749999,"end":6301.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6302.573468750001,"end":6308.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6308.715968750001,"end":6309.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6310.116593750001,"end":6313.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6314.79096875,"end":6321.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6321.52409375,"end":6322.401593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6322.78971875,"end":6323.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6323.92034375,"end":6325.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6326.8397187499995,"end":6327.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6327.16034375,"end":6329.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6328.45971875,"end":6339.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6336.39096875,"end":6337.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6339.4959687499995,"end":6343.545968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6343.022843750001,"end":6344.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6344.052218750001,"end":6344.423468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6344.87909375,"end":6349.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6349.23284375,"end":6354.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6353.45159375,"end":6360.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6360.25221875,"end":6366.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6363.67784375,"end":6364.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6366.0740937499995,"end":6368.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6368.385968750001,"end":6376.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6376.114718750001,"end":6379.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6379.65846875,"end":6380.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6381.413468750001,"end":6382.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6382.27409375,"end":6384.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6384.7040937500005,"end":6388.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6389.26034375,"end":6393.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6389.91846875,"end":6390.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6390.087218750001,"end":6390.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6390.44159375,"end":6390.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6390.9647187499995,"end":6390.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6390.981593750001,"end":6390.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":6390.99846875,"end":6391.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6391.18409375,"end":6391.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6393.360968750001,"end":6395.892218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6393.7997187500005,"end":6394.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6396.29721875,"end":6400.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6397.56284375,"end":6398.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6401.41034375,"end":6405.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6405.089093750001,"end":6405.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6405.325343750001,"end":6407.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6407.08034375,"end":6407.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6408.43034375,"end":6410.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6411.40034375,"end":6416.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6416.54721875,"end":6419.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6419.7197187500005,"end":6420.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6421.18784375,"end":6423.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6424.107218749999,"end":6424.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6425.524718750001,"end":6428.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6429.4228437500005,"end":6430.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6430.958468750001,"end":6431.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6433.1522187499995,"end":6435.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6436.341593749999,"end":6439.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6439.210343750001,"end":6440.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6440.897843750001,"end":6443.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6443.530343750001,"end":6446.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6446.02784375,"end":6448.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6447.934718750001,"end":6448.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6449.048468750001,"end":6450.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6450.01034375,"end":6450.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6451.09034375,"end":6451.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6452.474093750001,"end":6456.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6456.72659375,"end":6457.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6457.78971875,"end":6458.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6459.42659375,"end":6460.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6462.85221875,"end":6463.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6465.130343750001,"end":6466.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6466.716593749999,"end":6471.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6471.23909375,"end":6471.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6471.272843750001,"end":6471.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6471.28971875,"end":6473.466593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6471.34034375,"end":6471.357218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6471.57659375,"end":6471.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6473.466593749999,"end":6473.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6473.483468750001,"end":6474.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6475.170968750001,"end":6476.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6476.757218750001,"end":6477.600968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6477.600968750001,"end":6478.731593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6477.98909375,"end":6478.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6478.731593750001,"end":6482.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6478.79909375,"end":6478.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6482.8153437500005,"end":6486.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6487.169093750001,"end":6487.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6487.388468749999,"end":6488.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6487.42221875,"end":6488.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6489.700343750001,"end":6493.446593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6493.210343750001,"end":6494.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6496.720343750001,"end":6501.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6504.3309687500005,"end":6514.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6515.147843750001,"end":6517.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6518.08409375,"end":6520.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6520.04159375,"end":6523.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6524.41221875,"end":6525.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6524.6990937499995,"end":6528.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6528.175343750001,"end":6529.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6529.913468750001,"end":6530.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6530.942843750001,"end":6531.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6532.765343749999,"end":6541.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6542.53596875,"end":6545.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6545.21909375,"end":6551.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6552.222218750001,"end":6553.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6553.97721875,"end":6555.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6555.39471875,"end":6556.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6557.520968750001,"end":6559.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6557.68971875,"end":6558.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6558.76971875,"end":6560.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6560.288468750001,"end":6560.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6560.32221875,"end":6560.575343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6562.583468750001,"end":6563.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6562.7353437500005,"end":6568.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6565.28346875,"end":6567.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6569.654093749999,"end":6574.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6574.61534375,"end":6574.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6574.64909375,"end":6574.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6574.80096875,"end":6574.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6574.817843750001,"end":6574.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6575.93159375,"end":6584.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6585.3309687500005,"end":6588.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6589.00971875,"end":6596.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6596.654093749999,"end":6599.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6600.130343750001,"end":6600.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6601.075343750001,"end":6603.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6604.60221875,"end":6606.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6606.9647187499995,"end":6612.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6610.79534375,"end":6611.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6612.3309687500005,"end":6624.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6624.970343750001,"end":6629.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6630.420968750001,"end":6630.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6631.635968750001,"end":6632.294093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6632.327843749999,"end":6633.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6634.13346875,"end":6635.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6636.090968750001,"end":6641.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6642.06471875,"end":6647.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6647.667218750001,"end":6649.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6649.202843749999,"end":6649.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6650.2997187500005,"end":6651.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6651.81846875,"end":6652.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6653.21909375,"end":6657.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6657.06659375,"end":6665.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6665.9090937500005,"end":6667.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6667.79909375,"end":6668.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6668.1365937499995,"end":6671.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6671.714093750001,"end":6675.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6675.510968750001,"end":6676.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6678.042218750001,"end":6679.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6680.45534375,"end":6682.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6683.07096875,"end":6686.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6686.81721875,"end":6690.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6690.597218750001,"end":6691.390343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6691.592843750001,"end":6692.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6692.436593750001,"end":6693.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6693.71909375,"end":6694.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6694.84971875,"end":6696.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6696.4697187500005,"end":6698.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6699.06846875,"end":6700.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6700.300343750001,"end":6701.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6701.97096875,"end":6704.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6705.02534375,"end":6708.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6708.552218750001,"end":6712.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6712.349093750001,"end":6712.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6713.614718750001,"end":6719.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6719.9090937500005,"end":6720.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6721.073468750001,"end":6723.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6724.819718750001,"end":6725.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6726.6590937500005,"end":6732.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6732.61596875,"end":6733.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6733.392218750001,"end":6735.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6735.029093749999,"end":6735.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6735.079718750001,"end":6735.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6735.974093750001,"end":6739.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6740.665343750001,"end":6756.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6756.39284375,"end":6758.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6758.97471875,"end":6759.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6759.02534375,"end":6759.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6759.042218750001,"end":6759.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6759.05909375,"end":6759.126593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6759.126593750001,"end":6774.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6774.0947187500005,"end":6776.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6775.765343749999,"end":6776.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6776.40659375,"end":6776.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6776.4403437500005,"end":6779.005343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6779.190968750001,"end":6785.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6780.72659375,"end":6781.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6785.232218749999,"end":6787.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6787.020968750001,"end":6787.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6787.37534375,"end":6787.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6787.5272187499995,"end":6787.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6787.56096875,"end":6795.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6793.19721875,"end":6793.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6794.850968750001,"end":6798.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6796.8759687500005,"end":6797.044718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6797.517218750001,"end":6798.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6799.00221875,"end":6799.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6799.964093750001,"end":6811.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6811.489718750001,"end":6817.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6817.66596875,"end":6821.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6822.1209687499995,"end":6826.542218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6826.45784375,"end":6830.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6831.419093750001,"end":6834.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6835.013468749999,"end":6840.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6840.514718750001,"end":6844.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6844.80096875,"end":6845.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6845.08784375,"end":6850.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6850.639718750001,"end":6856.680968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6857.659718750001,"end":6864.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6858.52034375,"end":6859.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6862.907843750001,"end":6863.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6865.08471875,"end":6882.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6881.79096875,"end":6886.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6885.57096875,"end":6888.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6889.89096875,"end":6891.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6890.093468749999,"end":6890.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6890.144093750001,"end":6890.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":6891.089093750001,"end":6894.413468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6893.670968750001,"end":6898.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6898.159718750001,"end":6898.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6900.85971875,"end":6902.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6902.7665937500005,"end":6906.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6906.44534375,"end":6909.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6909.921593749999,"end":6911.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6919.33784375,"end":6925.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6925.17659375,"end":6925.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6928.60221875,"end":6931.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":6931.89284375,"end":6932.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6936.229718750001,"end":6938.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6936.314093750001,"end":6936.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6938.339093750001,"end":6942.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6942.89534375,"end":6944.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6945.29159375,"end":6950.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6951.11346875,"end":6962.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6962.520968750001,"end":6966.216593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6966.638468749999,"end":6971.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6972.00471875,"end":6973.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6974.468468750001,"end":6975.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6975.734093750001,"end":6980.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6981.48846875,"end":6983.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6984.20534375,"end":6989.014718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6989.436593750001,"end":6991.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6991.950968749999,"end":6994.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6994.920968750001,"end":6997.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6997.46909375,"end":7000.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7000.52346875,"end":7003.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7004.185343749999,"end":7005.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7005.9403437500005,"end":7011.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7011.745343750001,"end":7018.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7018.46159375,"end":7025.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7025.97096875,"end":7026.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7026.20721875,"end":7027.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7028.249093750001,"end":7029.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7029.63284375,"end":7039.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7039.79159375,"end":7041.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7041.698468750001,"end":7043.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7043.807843750001,"end":7047.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7048.077218750001,"end":7049.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7050.085343750001,"end":7051.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7053.00471875,"end":7054.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7055.147843750001,"end":7057.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7058.657843750001,"end":7060.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7061.374718750001,"end":7062.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7063.75409375,"end":7065.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7066.04909375,"end":7085.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7085.8603437500005,"end":7087.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7088.340968750001,"end":7091.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7092.644093750001,"end":7094.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7095.24284375,"end":7096.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7098.044093750001,"end":7098.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7099.917218750001,"end":7101.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7102.61721875,"end":7104.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7105.401593750001,"end":7110.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7110.80159375,"end":7112.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7113.315968750001,"end":7114.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7115.93159375,"end":7120.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7121.34846875,"end":7124.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7125.43221875,"end":7126.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7126.90034375,"end":7129.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7130.49471875,"end":7132.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7133.329718750001,"end":7133.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7134.139718750001,"end":7136.012843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7136.384093750001,"end":7138.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7138.64534375,"end":7139.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7140.045968750001,"end":7140.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7141.41284375,"end":7143.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7144.821593750001,"end":7147.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7147.92659375,"end":7151.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7151.807843750001,"end":7153.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7154.50784375,"end":7155.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7155.975968750001,"end":7157.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7157.612843750001,"end":7164.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7165.42596875,"end":7166.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7167.38346875,"end":7171.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7172.31096875,"end":7174.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7175.44971875,"end":7177.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7178.234093750001,"end":7181.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7182.80721875,"end":7185.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7186.28346875,"end":7187.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7187.616593750001,"end":7190.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7190.856593750001,"end":7191.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7192.51034375,"end":7193.809718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7194.501593750001,"end":7197.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7197.75846875,"end":7199.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7199.83409375,"end":7201.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7202.07846875,"end":7205.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7205.97659375,"end":7208.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7208.659718750001,"end":7209.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7210.397843750001,"end":7212.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7212.72659375,"end":7215.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7215.544718749999,"end":7221.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7221.923468750001,"end":7222.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7224.184718750001,"end":7227.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7228.302218750001,"end":7231.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7231.98096875,"end":7241.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7243.69221875,"end":7246.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7255.74096875,"end":7255.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7255.774718750001,"end":7257.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7258.069718750001,"end":7259.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7263.77346875,"end":7279.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7280.04096875,"end":7291.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7292.30909375,"end":7292.427218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7293.0009687500005,"end":7298.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7299.34596875,"end":7299.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7299.970343750001,"end":7303.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7304.83034375,"end":7307.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7308.23909375,"end":7311.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7312.440968750001,"end":7316.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7317.030968750001,"end":7330.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7331.02034375,"end":7339.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7339.8290937500005,"end":7343.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7343.74409375,"end":7347.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7348.536593750001,"end":7349.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7349.36346875,"end":7349.481593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7349.481593750001,"end":7355.100968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7349.5322187500005,"end":7349.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7355.995343750001,"end":7364.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7365.19221875,"end":7370.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7372.026593750001,"end":7378.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7379.012843750001,"end":7384.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7385.50971875,"end":7393.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7394.31846875,"end":7395.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7396.51221875,"end":7396.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7396.967843750001,"end":7400.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7401.11909375,"end":7403.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7405.354718750001,"end":7407.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7408.257218750001,"end":7410.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7410.80534375,"end":7413.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7413.977843750001,"end":7415.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7415.86784375,"end":7417.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7417.89284375,"end":7420.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7420.8290937500005,"end":7437.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7438.9697187500005,"end":7440.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7441.09596875,"end":7444.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7444.639718750001,"end":7447.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7447.390343750001,"end":7449.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7450.208468750001,"end":7451.946593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7452.739718750001,"end":7454.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7454.528468750001,"end":7455.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7456.33409375,"end":7457.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7458.544718749999,"end":7460.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7460.856593750001,"end":7462.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7463.185343749999,"end":7464.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7464.7040937500005,"end":7468.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7470.67784375,"end":7472.567843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7474.18784375,"end":7476.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7477.495343750001,"end":7481.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7481.984093750001,"end":7489.679093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7490.337218750001,"end":7493.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7493.67846875,"end":7496.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7497.981593750001,"end":7499.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7500.833468750001,"end":7503.702218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7504.24221875,"end":7507.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7508.5790937500005,"end":7515.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7515.9872187500005,"end":7516.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7518.16409375,"end":7525.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7525.487843750001,"end":7535.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7535.950343750001,"end":7536.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7536.96284375,"end":7537.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7537.57034375,"end":7537.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7537.587218750001,"end":7540.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7540.405343750001,"end":7546.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7547.104718750001,"end":7547.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7548.083468750001,"end":7550.614718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7551.1884687500005,"end":7556.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7556.571593750001,"end":7559.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7560.132218750001,"end":7563.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7564.671593750001,"end":7565.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7566.15659375,"end":7568.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7569.362843750001,"end":7572.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7573.632218750001,"end":7576.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7577.44596875,"end":7580.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7580.21346875,"end":7583.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7584.01034375,"end":7585.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7585.630343750001,"end":7587.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7588.296593750001,"end":7589.325968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7590.76034375,"end":7591.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7591.823468750001,"end":7595.198468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7596.514718750001,"end":7596.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7596.936593750001,"end":7596.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7597.155968750001,"end":7597.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7598.26971875,"end":7601.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7601.290343750001,"end":7603.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7604.192843750001,"end":7605.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7606.167218750001,"end":7609.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7609.913468750001,"end":7611.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7612.529093749999,"end":7620.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7621.74284375,"end":7640.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7640.92971875,"end":7641.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7641.790343750001,"end":7648.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7648.962218750001,"end":7661.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7661.331593750001,"end":7662.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7662.90096875,"end":7664.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7665.651593750001,"end":7669.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7670.055968750001,"end":7676.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7677.649718750001,"end":7678.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7679.74221875,"end":7683.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7685.294093750001,"end":7687.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7689.20909375,"end":7690.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7690.55909375,"end":7692.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7693.24221875,"end":7699.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7699.80659375,"end":7703.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7703.78909375,"end":7706.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7706.91096875,"end":7708.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7709.64471875,"end":7710.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7710.72471875,"end":7714.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7715.517218750001,"end":7717.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7718.35221875,"end":7722.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7723.161593750001,"end":7725.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7726.73909375,"end":7728.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7730.18159375,"end":7734.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7734.9403437500005,"end":7736.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7737.20159375,"end":7738.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7738.78784375,"end":7742.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7743.5634687500005,"end":7746.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7747.42784375,"end":7749.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7750.83659375,"end":7751.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7752.692843750001,"end":7753.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7755.1903437500005,"end":7756.9959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7758.21096875,"end":7759.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7759.93221875,"end":7762.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7762.952843750001,"end":7763.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7763.02034375,"end":7764.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7765.4334687499995,"end":7770.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7770.15846875,"end":7771.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7771.79534375,"end":7776.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7778.055968750001,"end":7781.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7781.68409375,"end":7787.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7787.92784375,"end":7791.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7791.20159375,"end":7791.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7791.70784375,"end":7793.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7793.479718750001,"end":7794.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7796.382218750001,"end":7797.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7797.39471875,"end":7799.419718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7800.85409375,"end":7803.840968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7803.8915937500005,"end":7815.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7815.450968749999,"end":7824.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7822.97721875,"end":7826.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7825.255343750001,"end":7825.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7826.97659375,"end":7827.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7827.61784375,"end":7833.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7833.89534375,"end":7839.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7839.95346875,"end":7840.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7841.08409375,"end":7844.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7845.4715937500005,"end":7850.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7851.19221875,"end":7852.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7853.099093750001,"end":7855.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7856.946593750001,"end":7858.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7858.93784375,"end":7859.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7860.91221875,"end":7865.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7866.66659375,"end":7871.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7873.247843749999,"end":7877.517218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7878.15846875,"end":7883.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7883.96346875,"end":7888.452218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7889.59971875,"end":7890.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7891.439093750001,"end":7892.755343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7893.700343750001,"end":7895.3709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":7896.06284375,"end":7897.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7899.53909375,"end":7902.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7903.302218750001,"end":7904.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7905.19221875,"end":7907.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8244.109718750002,"end":8248.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8256.293468750002,"end":8259.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8262.65534375,"end":8268.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8262.824093750001,"end":8263.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8263.22909375,"end":8263.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8268.29159375,"end":8270.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8270.55284375,"end":8274.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8274.55221875,"end":8288.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8288.54159375,"end":8298.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8298.41346875,"end":8301.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8302.649093750002,"end":8304.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8305.19721875,"end":8313.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8313.449093750001,"end":8317.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8317.887218750002,"end":8332.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8332.703468750002,"end":8335.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8336.09534375,"end":8342.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8342.946593750003,"end":8347.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8347.249718750001,"end":8349.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8350.28721875,"end":8355.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8355.535343750002,"end":8357.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8358.269093750001,"end":8369.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8370.098468750002,"end":8373.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8373.203468750002,"end":8378.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8378.82284375,"end":8399.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8400.827843750001,"end":8457.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8457.81471875,"end":8483.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8483.734718750002,"end":8489.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8488.30784375,"end":8488.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8490.231593750003,"end":8497.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8498.550968750002,"end":8500.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8500.94721875,"end":8508.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8508.43971875,"end":8534.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8535.69284375,"end":8562.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8557.242218750001,"end":8557.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8562.70971875,"end":8562.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8563.08096875,"end":8571.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8572.14284375,"end":8578.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8572.83471875,"end":8575.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8578.74096875,"end":8585.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8587.684718750003,"end":8594.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8588.190968750001,"end":8588.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8596.577843750001,"end":8603.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8600.18909375,"end":8604.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8603.95221875,"end":8611.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8612.136593750001,"end":8619.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8619.88221875,"end":8622.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8622.582218750002,"end":8626.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8624.860343750002,"end":8625.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8626.919093750003,"end":8627.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8627.47596875,"end":8631.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8627.492843750002,"end":8630.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8631.20534375,"end":8637.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8632.454093750002,"end":8633.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8635.69409375,"end":8636.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8637.22971875,"end":8638.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8638.64721875,"end":8638.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8640.63846875,"end":8641.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8645.481593750003,"end":8646.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8646.86534375,"end":8647.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8648.02971875,"end":8649.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8651.08409375,"end":8659.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8662.508468750002,"end":8665.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8665.461593750002,"end":8666.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8666.305343750002,"end":8679.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8678.860343750002,"end":8683.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8680.379093750002,"end":8681.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8683.028468750003,"end":8683.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8683.14659375,"end":8683.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8683.855343750001,"end":8685.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8686.26846875,"end":8702.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8703.632843750001,"end":8706.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8707.024718750003,"end":8730.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8730.97034375,"end":8731.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8732.45534375,"end":8738.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8740.25159375,"end":8746.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8746.63034375,"end":8757.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8751.456593750001,"end":8752.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8752.35096875,"end":8752.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8752.789718750002,"end":8752.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8757.683468750001,"end":8758.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8758.544093750003,"end":8781.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8781.03846875,"end":8782.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8782.30409375,"end":8791.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8791.973468750002,"end":8802.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8799.78659375,"end":8800.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8802.030968750001,"end":8804.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8802.95909375,"end":8803.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8804.96721875,"end":8816.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8817.42096875,"end":8820.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8822.01096875,"end":8822.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8822.972843750002,"end":8838.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8834.22846875,"end":8835.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8838.210968750001,"end":8840.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8844.47159375,"end":8844.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8845.26471875,"end":8848.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8856.55409375,"end":8859.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8860.55346875,"end":8861.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8862.359093750001,"end":8863.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8864.434718750003,"end":8864.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8865.649718750003,"end":8866.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8867.10096875,"end":8869.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8870.121593750002,"end":8872.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8873.10846875,"end":8876.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8876.922218750002,"end":8883.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8884.094093750002,"end":8884.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8885.22471875,"end":8889.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8889.780968750001,"end":8893.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8893.45971875,"end":8899.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8899.821593750003,"end":8903.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8903.63534375,"end":8907.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8907.145343750002,"end":8909.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8909.609093750001,"end":8914.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8914.95846875,"end":8921.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8921.742218750001,"end":8923.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8923.952843750001,"end":8928.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8928.559718750003,"end":8928.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8929.504718750002,"end":8934.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8934.43221875,"end":8934.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8934.989093750002,"end":8939.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8939.76471875,"end":8966.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8967.051593750002,"end":8975.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8976.19784375,"end":8989.680968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8991.351593750001,"end":8994.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8995.300343750001,"end":9003.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9003.94034375,"end":9005.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9006.640343750001,"end":9007.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9007.872218750003,"end":9009.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9010.184093750002,"end":9012.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9013.27221875,"end":9016.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9016.91721875,"end":9020.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9020.477843750003,"end":9027.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9028.425968750002,"end":9030.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9030.97409375,"end":9031.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9032.45909375,"end":9033.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9034.63596875,"end":9035.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9035.61471875,"end":9037.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9037.977218750002,"end":9050.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9051.004718750002,"end":9066.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9067.27221875,"end":9069.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9069.60096875,"end":9082.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9083.25284375,"end":9084.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9084.687218750001,"end":9087.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9088.31534375,"end":9101.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9102.22034375,"end":9109.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9109.56096875,"end":9116.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9117.25596875,"end":9120.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9121.52534375,"end":9124.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9124.984718750002,"end":9126.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9126.55409375,"end":9129.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9130.45221875,"end":9141.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9141.235343750002,"end":9141.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9142.129718750002,"end":9142.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9142.230968750002,"end":9147.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9142.26471875,"end":9142.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9147.074093750001,"end":9148.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9148.67721875,"end":9149.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9150.044093750003,"end":9152.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9153.58784375,"end":9160.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9161.14784375,"end":9184.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9185.009093750003,"end":9185.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9186.325343750003,"end":9187.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9187.86096875,"end":9189.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9189.902843750002,"end":9192.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9192.88971875,"end":9194.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9194.813468750002,"end":9196.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9197.496593750002,"end":9202.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9202.54221875,"end":9204.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9205.74846875,"end":9221.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9222.31971875,"end":9225.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9225.37409375,"end":9250.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9251.294093750003,"end":9263.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9263.81534375,"end":9274.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9275.52659375,"end":9281.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9282.00659375,"end":9282.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9283.67721875,"end":9285.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9286.20846875,"end":9301.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9301.480343750001,"end":9303.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9303.640343750001,"end":9304.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9304.26471875,"end":9312.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9311.504093750002,"end":9312.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9312.53346875,"end":9313.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9313.360343750002,"end":9334.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9331.602218750002,"end":9334.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9334.26846875,"end":9350.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9350.56971875,"end":9351.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9352.18971875,"end":9353.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9354.14721875,"end":9357.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9357.30284375,"end":9359.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9359.36159375,"end":9362.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9363.141593750002,"end":9399.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9401.54909375,"end":9405.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9412.73721875,"end":9416.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9416.83784375,"end":9417.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9419.38596875,"end":9423.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9419.43659375,"end":9420.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9420.26346875,"end":9420.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9420.28034375,"end":9420.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9423.098468750002,"end":9429.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9425.69721875,"end":9426.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9427.840343750002,"end":9428.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9429.949718750002,"end":9430.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":9430.152218750001,"end":9434.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9434.387843750003,"end":9436.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9437.35784375,"end":9437.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9438.94409375,"end":9466.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9466.551593750002,"end":9468.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9468.964718750001,"end":9479.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9480.59159375,"end":9487.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9483.66284375,"end":9483.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9487.39221875,"end":9487.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9487.44284375,"end":9487.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9487.72971875,"end":9488.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9488.387843750003,"end":9488.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9490.14284375,"end":9502.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9496.21784375,"end":9496.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9496.234718750002,"end":9496.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9496.504718750002,"end":9496.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9502.96784375,"end":9504.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9505.00971875,"end":9510.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9510.59534375,"end":9516.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9516.34971875,"end":9524.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9524.550968750002,"end":9536.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9536.19471875,"end":9536.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9536.92034375,"end":9537.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9537.03846875,"end":9564.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9544.547843750002,"end":9545.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9546.235343750002,"end":9546.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9555.297218750002,"end":9555.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9564.274718750003,"end":9571.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9572.425343750001,"end":9583.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9584.00159375,"end":9590.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9591.831593750001,"end":9601.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9601.63596875,"end":9607.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9607.559093750002,"end":9610.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9610.782218750002,"end":9613.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9613.785968750002,"end":9623.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9623.370968750001,"end":9628.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9628.56846875,"end":9630.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9631.42034375,"end":9631.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9632.09534375,"end":9633.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9634.57596875,"end":9635.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9635.976593750001,"end":9660.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9660.867218750001,"end":9678.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9661.96409375,"end":9662.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9678.04596875,"end":9679.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9680.77971875,"end":9697.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9697.85721875,"end":9699.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9700.253468750001,"end":9722.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9722.42721875,"end":9723.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9724.01346875,"end":9725.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9726.578468750002,"end":9727.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9726.629093750002,"end":9728.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9728.012843750003,"end":9731.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9732.332843750002,"end":9733.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9733.76721875,"end":9737.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9738.67784375,"end":9742.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9739.437218750001,"end":9740.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9743.655968750001,"end":9753.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9753.308468750001,"end":9759.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9760.09221875,"end":9761.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9761.83034375,"end":9762.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9764.61471875,"end":9774.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9774.97596875,"end":9777.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9777.97971875,"end":9793.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9794.230343750001,"end":9827.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9828.23346875,"end":9858.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9830.79846875,"end":9831.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9858.23721875,"end":9858.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9858.96284375,"end":9863.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9864.09284375,"end":9867.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9868.125968750002,"end":9875.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9875.027843750002,"end":9875.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9875.972843750002,"end":9875.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9875.98971875,"end":9884.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9880.32659375,"end":9882.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9883.684718750003,"end":9884.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9884.86596875,"end":9885.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9885.49034375,"end":9885.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9885.50721875,"end":9885.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9885.777218750001,"end":9885.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9885.96284375,"end":9887.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9888.02159375,"end":9889.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9890.417843750001,"end":9892.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9892.72971875,"end":9901.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9902.58471875,"end":9909.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9902.68596875,"end":9903.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9903.867218750001,"end":9903.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9903.934718750003,"end":9904.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9904.42409375,"end":9904.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9904.64346875,"end":9904.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9911.17409375,"end":9912.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9913.50284375,"end":9915.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9915.257843750001,"end":9916.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9916.86096875,"end":9920.640968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9921.180968750003,"end":9937.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9937.988468750002,"end":9957.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9957.023468750001,"end":9969.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9968.481593750003,"end":9968.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9969.13971875,"end":9969.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9969.71346875,"end":9970.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9970.65846875,"end":9971.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9971.519093750001,"end":9971.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9971.637218750002,"end":9971.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9971.92409375,"end":9971.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9971.97471875,"end":9973.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":9974.13471875,"end":9974.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9974.20221875,"end":9975.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9977.66159375,"end":9978.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9979.450343750003,"end":9980.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9981.32346875,"end":9982.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9983.68596875,"end":9988.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9989.59221875,"end":10010.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10011.917843750001,"end":10016.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10017.53721875,"end":10019.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10017.722843750002,"end":10028.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10028.860343750002,"end":10032.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10032.57284375,"end":10033.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10033.14659375,"end":10033.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10033.56846875,"end":10033.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10033.973468750002,"end":10033.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10034.98596875,"end":10037.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10037.820968750002,"end":10038.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10038.47909375,"end":10038.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10039.67721875,"end":10043.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10043.879093750002,"end":10050.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10051.13534375,"end":10052.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10053.008468750002,"end":10058.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10058.745968750001,"end":10059.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10061.294093750003,"end":10063.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10064.179718750001,"end":10075.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10076.059718750003,"end":10079.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10079.687843750002,"end":10089.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10089.981593750003,"end":10093.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10094.48721875,"end":10098.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10098.58784375,"end":10103.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10103.414093750001,"end":10103.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10104.578468750002,"end":10107.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10108.425968750002,"end":10110.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10111.109093750001,"end":10116.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10117.09971875,"end":10128.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10128.405968750001,"end":10131.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10131.949718750002,"end":10139.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10140.285968750002,"end":10155.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10156.215968750003,"end":10157.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10158.780968750001,"end":10162.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10162.83096875,"end":10169.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10178.38971875,"end":10180.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10180.00971875,"end":10182.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10183.85721875,"end":10184.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10185.34221875,"end":10221.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10221.89346875,"end":10227.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10227.68159375,"end":10230.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10230.668468750002,"end":10234.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10234.515968750002,"end":10237.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10237.249718750001,"end":10238.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10238.464718750001,"end":10241.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10242.93659375,"end":10243.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10243.02096875,"end":10243.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10243.03784375,"end":10243.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10243.054718750001,"end":10243.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10243.206593750001,"end":10244.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10245.180968750003,"end":10247.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10249.332218750002,"end":10253.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10253.027843750002,"end":10277.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10277.93534375,"end":10314.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10315.27971875,"end":10319.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10320.426593750002,"end":10334.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10325.809718750003,"end":10325.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10325.82659375,"end":10325.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":10325.97846875,"end":10326.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10326.13034375,"end":10326.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10326.19784375,"end":10326.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10336.20471875,"end":10339.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10340.47409375,"end":10345.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10342.347218750001,"end":10342.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10343.91659375,"end":10363.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10363.89659375,"end":10374.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10369.12784375,"end":10369.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10373.515343750001,"end":10379.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10377.44721875,"end":10381.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10380.67034375,"end":10385.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10385.68221875,"end":10389.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10386.711593750002,"end":10386.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10388.41596875,"end":10389.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10389.36096875,"end":10392.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10392.80346875,"end":10396.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10392.85409375,"end":10398.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10397.730968750002,"end":10402.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10399.06409375,"end":10400.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10402.40534375,"end":10404.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10404.81846875,"end":10406.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10406.640968750002,"end":10408.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10408.497218750003,"end":10415.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10412.63159375,"end":10413.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10413.070343750001,"end":10413.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10415.753468750001,"end":10419.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10419.21284375,"end":10419.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10419.719093750002,"end":10419.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10420.140968750002,"end":10422.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10420.984718750002,"end":10422.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10422.469718750002,"end":10422.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10422.570968750002,"end":10440.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10440.660968750002,"end":10441.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10441.454093750002,"end":10448.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10444.00221875,"end":10444.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10446.567218750002,"end":10446.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10448.254718750002,"end":10451.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10448.946593750003,"end":10449.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10451.54534375,"end":10461.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10460.60721875,"end":10462.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10462.952843750001,"end":10468.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10463.020343750002,"end":10463.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10464.74159375,"end":10465.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10469.01096875,"end":10469.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10469.80409375,"end":10470.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10469.88846875,"end":10470.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10470.31034375,"end":10471.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10472.11596875,"end":10475.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10475.879093750002,"end":10478.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10478.00534375,"end":10485.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10482.24096875,"end":10482.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10485.852218750002,"end":10490.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10490.762843750003,"end":10492.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10492.72034375,"end":10493.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10493.024093750002,"end":10493.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10493.20971875,"end":10493.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10494.03659375,"end":10498.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10498.289093750001,"end":10502.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10503.23346875,"end":10505.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10506.86159375,"end":10511.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10510.692218750002,"end":10510.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10512.66659375,"end":10512.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10514.168468750002,"end":10518.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10518.74159375,"end":10523.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10523.331593750001,"end":10536.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10524.344093750002,"end":10525.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10538.384093750003,"end":10547.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10547.024093750002,"end":10549.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10549.58909375,"end":10549.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10549.62284375,"end":10549.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10549.977218750002,"end":10551.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10551.023468750001,"end":10553.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10553.84159375,"end":10554.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10554.53346875,"end":10559.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10559.86596875,"end":10562.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10561.536593750003,"end":10568.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10566.261593750001,"end":10566.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10567.425968750002,"end":10568.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10568.40471875,"end":10568.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10568.421593750001,"end":10568.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10568.438468750002,"end":10569.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10569.77159375,"end":10573.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10569.82221875,"end":10570.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10571.47596875,"end":10572.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10573.72034375,"end":10575.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10580.95971875,"end":10581.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10581.195968750002,"end":10585.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10585.90409375,"end":10586.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10587.321593750003,"end":10589.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10590.24096875,"end":10593.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10594.544093750003,"end":10595.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10595.99534375,"end":10598.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10598.98221875,"end":10602.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10613.629718750002,"end":10615.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10616.211593750002,"end":10617.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":10620.059093750002,"end":10620.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10620.88596875,"end":10630.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10630.74096875,"end":10631.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10632.934718750003,"end":10637.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10637.28846875,"end":10649.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10650.113468750002,"end":10652.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10653.57284375,"end":10655.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10655.918468750002,"end":10659.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10660.06971875,"end":10667.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10667.71409375,"end":10678.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10678.76721875,"end":10695.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10696.01346875,"end":10697.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10698.19034375,"end":10699.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10700.23221875,"end":10701.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10702.847843750002,"end":10703.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10703.97846875,"end":10705.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10706.20596875,"end":10709.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10710.087218750003,"end":10712.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10712.972843750002,"end":10715.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10716.06096875,"end":10730.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10730.843468750001,"end":10746.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10747.043468750002,"end":10753.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10753.911593750003,"end":10768.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10768.339718750001,"end":10807.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10808.19846875,"end":10864.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10865.590343750002,"end":10867.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10868.442218750002,"end":10868.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10869.15096875,"end":10869.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10870.09596875,"end":10876.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10876.96409375,"end":10910.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10911.86159375,"end":10912.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10912.671593750001,"end":10913.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10917.750968750002,"end":10920.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10921.14284375,"end":10927.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10928.078468750002,"end":10929.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10930.64346875,"end":10931.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10931.672843750002,"end":10932.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10932.550343750001,"end":10941.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10941.13971875,"end":10945.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10941.19034375,"end":10941.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10942.86096875,"end":10943.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10944.734093750001,"end":10945.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10945.965968750003,"end":10953.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10954.656593750002,"end":10959.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10959.415343750003,"end":10961.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10959.938468750002,"end":10960.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10961.237843750001,"end":10962.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10962.01409375,"end":10964.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10963.22909375,"end":10963.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10964.039093750001,"end":10964.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10964.207843750002,"end":10964.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10964.24159375,"end":10973.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10973.472218750001,"end":10976.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10976.03721875,"end":10981.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10980.47534375,"end":10981.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10981.977218750002,"end":10988.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10986.870968750001,"end":10987.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10988.406593750002,"end":11003.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10989.739718750003,"end":10990.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10990.54971875,"end":10990.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10998.71721875,"end":10998.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10998.76784375,"end":10998.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10998.86909375,"end":10998.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11002.919093750003,"end":11010.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11003.47596875,"end":11005.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11010.023468750001,"end":11024.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11011.37346875,"end":11012.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11022.426593750002,"end":11023.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11024.97471875,"end":11028.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11025.362843750001,"end":11031.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11029.530968750001,"end":11030.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11030.965343750002,"end":11032.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11032.399718750003,"end":11107.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11107.527218750001,"end":11123.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11124.351593750001,"end":11125.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11126.410343750002,"end":11129.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11130.08909375,"end":11132.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11133.632843750001,"end":11147.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11147.58846875,"end":11165.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11165.52659375,"end":11173.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11174.149718750003,"end":11192.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11193.52221875,"end":11194.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11195.243468750003,"end":11201.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11203.309718750003,"end":11204.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11204.59221875,"end":11229.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11229.769718750002,"end":11232.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11232.75659375,"end":11235.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11236.587218750003,"end":11238.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11238.81471875,"end":11240.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11241.04221875,"end":11246.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11246.847218750001,"end":11248.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11248.46721875,"end":11249.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11249.547218750002,"end":11251.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11251.74096875,"end":11254.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11255.11596875,"end":11256.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11257.292843750001,"end":11258.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11260.195343750001,"end":11266.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11266.45596875,"end":11278.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11278.825343750003,"end":11328.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11329.079093750002,"end":11360.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11361.074093750001,"end":11363.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11364.668468750002,"end":11366.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11365.883468750002,"end":11367.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11368.245968750001,"end":11369.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11370.91221875,"end":11373.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11373.98346875,"end":11378.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11376.059093750002,"end":11378.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11380.109093750001,"end":11381.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11381.796593750001,"end":11386.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11388.10784375,"end":11396.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11397.76034375,"end":11397.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11397.777218750001,"end":11401.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11402.063468750002,"end":11403.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11403.88596875,"end":11408.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11404.93221875,"end":11404.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11406.14721875,"end":11406.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11407.51409375,"end":11416.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11416.035968750002,"end":11470.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11471.47034375,"end":11473.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11473.815968750001,"end":11485.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11486.15159375,"end":11489.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11490.387218750002,"end":11490.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11492.192843750003,"end":11493.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11493.82971875,"end":11495.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11495.68596875,"end":11508.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11509.574093750001,"end":11512.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11512.695968750002,"end":11515.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11515.851593750001,"end":11519.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11520.120968750001,"end":11535.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11535.86534375,"end":11536.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11536.28721875,"end":11538.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11536.320968750002,"end":11536.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11538.227843750003,"end":11542.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11544.03284375,"end":11553.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11554.664093750001,"end":11561.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11561.684093750002,"end":11562.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11562.359093750001,"end":11572.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11573.125343750002,"end":11575.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11575.757843750001,"end":11579.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11579.571593750003,"end":11581.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11582.17034375,"end":11588.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11588.481593750003,"end":11588.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11589.56159375,"end":11592.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11593.08846875,"end":11593.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11594.15159375,"end":11597.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11597.93159375,"end":11605.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11605.74471875,"end":11631.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11632.00221875,"end":11636.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11637.419093750003,"end":11637.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11638.144718750002,"end":11643.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11643.91596875,"end":11646.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11647.442843750003,"end":11647.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11648.57346875,"end":11648.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11649.282218750002,"end":11650.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11650.446593750003,"end":11656.285343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11656.36971875,"end":11662.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11663.22096875,"end":11672.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11673.09284375,"end":11677.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11677.581593750001,"end":11680.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11681.597843750002,"end":11686.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11687.149718750003,"end":11690.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11690.828468750002,"end":11691.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11692.043468750002,"end":11696.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11696.464718750001,"end":11708.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11708.31096875,"end":11709.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11709.880343750003,"end":11712.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11712.05721875,"end":11717.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11719.212218750003,"end":11719.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11720.17409375,"end":11723.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11723.987843750001,"end":11724.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11724.831593750001,"end":11725.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11725.72596875,"end":11727.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11728.324718750002,"end":11741.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11741.84159375,"end":11745.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11745.469718750002,"end":11751.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11747.17409375,"end":11747.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11748.70971875,"end":11748.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11751.46034375,"end":11755.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11755.915343750003,"end":11758.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11758.66596875,"end":11759.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11760.589718750001,"end":11762.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11763.00284375,"end":11763.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11763.711593750002,"end":11769.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11769.53346875,"end":11772.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11772.38534375,"end":11779.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11779.371593750002,"end":11784.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11784.974093750003,"end":11785.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11785.04159375,"end":11786.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11787.45471875,"end":11792.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11792.989718750003,"end":11795.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11795.84159375,"end":11797.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11798.035343750002,"end":11798.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11799.199718750002,"end":11801.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11801.71409375,"end":11802.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11802.743468750003,"end":11810.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11810.894093750001,"end":11811.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11812.277843750002,"end":11816.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11817.390968750002,"end":11825.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11826.520343750002,"end":11829.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11830.300343750001,"end":11831.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11831.414093750001,"end":11837.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11837.961593750002,"end":11841.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11841.52221875,"end":11844.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11844.67784375,"end":11850.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11850.195968750002,"end":11853.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11853.95909375,"end":11859.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11859.71346875,"end":11863.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11863.847843750002,"end":11868.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11868.77534375,"end":11870.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11870.98596875,"end":11871.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11871.40784375,"end":11871.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11871.559718750003,"end":11885.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11883.692843750003,"end":11890.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11890.98284375,"end":11903.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11905.090343750002,"end":11912.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11913.105968750002,"end":11917.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11917.88159375,"end":11926.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11927.16284375,"end":11933.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11934.402218750001,"end":11936.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11936.74784375,"end":11937.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11938.620968750001,"end":11941.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11942.485343750002,"end":11947.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11947.46346875,"end":11949.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11949.94409375,"end":11956.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11959.54596875,"end":11963.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11964.60846875,"end":11964.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":11964.97971875,"end":11968.202843750001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1782.27,"end":1791.743,"text":"報告委員會初期委員時任移組法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開始開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄"},{"start":1792.796,"end":1820.235,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月25日星期一上午9時3分至12時20分11月27日星期三上午9時至12時29分地點11月25日群仙樓9樓大禮堂11月27日紅樓302會議室出席委員黃委員國昌等12人列席委員鄭委員天才等15人列席官員11月25日司法院副秘書長黃林倫等人"},{"start":1821.996,"end":1841.629,"text":"11月27日考試院秘書長劉建新等人主席中召集委員嘉賓11月25日報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項一審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分二審查司法院含送財團法人法律輔助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":1843.93,"end":1863.278,"text":"3及4為繼續審查司法院含情審議稅務行政事件審理法草案及行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案案本日會有委員黃國昌等10人提出質詢委員羅志強等3人提出書面質詢決議1第1案及第2案報告及詢答完畢軍令定期繼續審查2第3案及第4案軍令定期繼續審查"},{"start":1864.638,"end":1884.054,"text":"提案條文均已宣讀完畢三委員質詢時要求提供相關資料會議順便答覆者請相關機關請訴送交個別委員及本會四審查委員針對本日議程所列討論事項第一案及第二案之預算提案請於12月2日星期一中午12時前送交本會遇時不予受理11月27日報告事項"},{"start":1886.076,"end":1910.824,"text":"全序部函為113年度中央政府總預算決議解送預算凍結書面報告請查抄案等二案決定均准以被查提報院會討論事項第一至四為審查114年度中央政府總預算關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分考選部主管考選業務基金全序部主管公務人員退休補蓄基金及公教人員個人專務制退補儲金基金收支部分"},{"start":1911.664,"end":1939.134,"text":"第5及第6為考試院及公務人員保障及培訓委員會分別含為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢送預算凍結書面報告請查詔案本日會議委員黃國昌等15人提出質詢委員謝龍介提出書面質詢決議一報告及詢答完畢二第1案至第4案均令定期繼續審查三第5案及第6案均准於凍支提報院會四委員質詢時要求提供相關資料會議書面答覆者請相關機關請速送交個別委員及本會"},{"start":1940.294,"end":1960.443,"text":"無審查會委員針對本日議審所列討論事項第1案之第4案之預算提案請於12月3日星期二中午12時前送交本會預時不予受理。宣讀完畢因為人數還不足所以我們待會再確定先請坐"},{"start":1967.489,"end":1992.338,"text":"請問上次的議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏?沒有好那議事錄確定那我們現在接著介紹到場的委員首先是鍾昭偉陳俊宇委員好那我們接著介紹列席官員立法院秘書長周秘書長"},{"start":1993.942,"end":2007.974,"text":"副秘書長、張副秘書長、其餘未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程排定"},{"start":2009.299,"end":2026.975,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分本日僅進行報告及詢答另外針對預算相關提案請於12月10日中午12時前提出預時不予受理也特別提醒大家"},{"start":2030.332,"end":2048.746,"text":"並請機關於提案處理前利用時間先與提案委員進行溝通協調以利後續審查,特此在座說明現在進行機關報告,發言時間5分鐘我們麻煩請立法院秘書長周萬來秘書長報告秘書長因為身體因素與口頭報告完畢之後由副秘書長代為備詢"},{"start":2071.049,"end":2096.841,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生、大家好。萬難獲邀列席本院司法及法制委員會報告立法院主管114年度預算案編列情形自感榮幸並感謝各位委員與各項施政及經費上給予指導與支持以下請就本院113年度預視績效及預算執行情形114年"},{"start":2099.242,"end":2121.276,"text":"預定工作項目及114年度預算案編列重點分別二要報告如此一113年度預視績效及預算執行情形依依視績效因應政府施政運作需要本院配合完成各相關議案之立法程序113年節制至"},{"start":2123.68,"end":2140.293,"text":"第11屆第1會期指．召開院會二三次通過法律案40案、條約案3案、復議案2案、其他議案10案、合計55案．預算執行情形依稅率部分．113年度稅率預算數10713000元截至11月底"},{"start":2144.978,"end":2156.686,"text":"累計分配數0457000元累計贖收數136933000元執行率130.94%稅收部分113年度稅收共區分一般行政等9項業務計劃科目配合相關運作需要積累預算3647133000元截止10月底值累計分配數"},{"start":2176.379,"end":2184.246,"text":"3524000元累計支出數29億97628000元預算執行率92.13%執行情形正常二、114年度預定工作項目根據建立優質立法運證環境空間強化議事行政與服務功能有效支援委員議事運證"},{"start":2204.248,"end":2219.678,"text":"並根據與展現國會運作風貌以扶民眾期待與社會觀感為本院一四年度各項行政工作重點方向其主要項目包括一聽取行政院長報告施政方針及施政計畫"},{"start":2221.119,"end":2235.659,"text":"並提出施政質詢意見令審議法立案預算案及國家其他重要事項以提升法制建設報委員會議院會交互審查之議案及聯名請願案完成立法審議程序之審查作業後"},{"start":2237.762,"end":2262.076,"text":"提報院會三更續辦理委員住宿會館整修工程改善住宿會館老舊問題打造委員健康住宿環境提升住宿品質是提供有關立法政策法律案及決算案等研究分析評估諮詢等事項供委員審查之參考並持續充實國會圖書與資訊相關資料"},{"start":2266.579,"end":2269.482,"text":"建前委員問贈機能5."},{"start":2269.482,"end":2274.406,"text":"辦理員工協助方案以促進同仁身心健康建個友善職場環境6."},{"start":2274.406,"end":2276.809,"text":"積極推展國會外交參與重要國際相關活動並擴大與國際智庫等之交流與合作以爭取"},{"start":2286.057,"end":2300.563,"text":"國際友誼提升國際地位及加強議政史料收集與展示作業完善展場設施優化民主政治史料價值與典藏機制把辦理立法周邊環境空間"},{"start":2301.843,"end":2315.401,"text":"安全用化工程以提升院區全面性維安措施並確保人員安全就汰換委員公務用89連座小客車二輛以改善委員坐車安全提升服務較嚴"},{"start":2317.663,"end":2339.735,"text":"10更續辦理各項資訊基礎建設各類資源應用系統及資訊安全建設等相關事項以提升資訊服務品質強化國會資安防務作業11更續裁判異常三樓協商室等社員基礎數位印刷組等設備以強化會議錄音錄影效能及提升議事文件印刷品質"},{"start":2342.036,"end":2356.471,"text":"114年度預算編列重點編院114年度預算案更系編列委員14問証各項行政資源及資訊服務與設備維護、太購等基本需求經費其內容如下依稅率預算部分110年度會議稅率"},{"start":2358.573,"end":2361.134,"text":"預算編列10449000元較113年度檢列264000元檢入2.46%預估收入來源包括廠商違約支賠償收入中華電信台銀郵局"},{"start":2373.001,"end":2398.438,"text":"各電信公司、基地台委員、研究大樓、咖啡廳、 抗原餐廳、立法院、護舍、托運中心、務務會館及民主義正園區停車場等使用、委員黃色及土地資助金與權益金收入、收社會救物品等收入、委員團體保險機位分紅、民主義正園區會議室及公共場所出借場地使用收入、太陽光內設備發電回饋金及"},{"start":2400.379,"end":2414.369,"text":"借用宿舍員工注資薪資課為繳課數等雜項收入二稅數計算部會114年度稅數預算即編列一般行政委員問政業務等9項業務計劃經費共37億6,00312萬6千元較13年度增內11,319萬3千元增幅3.1%主要是經增內員工委員當會助理待遇含加班費調整4%等"},{"start":2430.473,"end":2446.478,"text":"聯視經費及新增國際事務處推動國會交流相關經費等以下請去問委員問政專項經費意識行政資源經費及一般建築及設備經費等三大經費項目二要說明如下一委員問政專項經費本項即編列15000"},{"start":2451.86,"end":2457.543,"text":"15億534萬占40.03%．包括委員稅務及公衛．公衛助理．國衛交流事務委員會館．問政相關內容及黨團補助等六項工作計畫．軍委委員問政議事及選民服務等所需經費．一是行政支援經費本項次級別內20億4千"},{"start":2476.812,"end":2496.928,"text":"四百七十萬一千元占百分之五十四點三八包括一般行政意識業務立法諮詢業務國會圖書業務公報業務及一般及第一一倍金等六項工作計畫主要為本院職工聯員維持會及各項行政資源作業等所需經費三一般建築及設備經費本項是基本內二億"},{"start":2498.669,"end":2514.834,"text":"一千零萬十八萬五千元將佔百分之五點五九包括營建工程交通及運輸設備及其他設備等三項工作計畫主要系辦理立法院委員住宿會館整修工程立法院周邊環境空間安全優化工程太外委員公務"},{"start":2515.834,"end":2523.477,"text":"又撤了台灣一式轉播網際網路多媒體、水險視訊系統等資訊、軟硬體設備台灣異常三樓、協商室等攝影機組及數位"},{"start":2529.977,"end":2557.948,"text":"一發機等資本支出經費．以以上本院114年度稅收預算案之編列均系為建立優質立法問政環境提升委員問政與服務效能及有效推動本院各項任務所需。善請各位委員臨品一貫愛護支出中鼎力支持進行指教並感謝主席及各位委員提亮報告後由副秘書長代為備詢再度感謝謝謝"},{"start":2561.244,"end":2585.175,"text":"謝謝秘書長接官報告發言完畢那相關書面內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記我們現在請發言登記第一位陳俊宇委員發言"},{"start":2600.629,"end":2606.863,"text":"好主席我們周秘書長那張副秘書長那我想有請張副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":2614.272,"end":2639.553,"text":"副秘書長早今天是要審議我們立法院的預算那我還是想就一些議題來請教副秘書長那近幾年因為公部門的這個霸凌事件引發社會各界對公務員身心健康的一個關注而近幾年由人事總署所推動的員工協助方案也是政府這個重要的政策之一希望能夠透過工作面生活面健康面的協助來減緩壓力所帶來的問題"},{"start":2642.655,"end":2663.561,"text":"立法院作為中央最高的民意機構更應該要以身作則妥善的照顧工作夥伴在我們剛剛秘書長的報告當中也提到立法院在114年度工作重點項目中也包括辦理員工協助方案以及促進同仁身心健康並且能夠建構友善職場的環境"},{"start":2664.921,"end":2684.198,"text":"那立法院從113年也就是今年開始在和廠商合作辦理員工協助的這個方案實際所提供的這個服務面向以及使用的人次事務缺乏資料的參考那是不是請教我們副秘書長員工協助方案在今年具體使用的這個情形"},{"start":2686.616,"end":2710.923,"text":"這個違和謝謝委員的關心首先我就委員所詢問的這個員工協助方案的辦理情形這個部分來先表達一下目前的做法第一個我們一個員工協助方案是113年的時候他就委託了這個語聯管理顧問有限公司來辦理"},{"start":2712.063,"end":2738.081,"text":"那細部的部分等一下人事處長可以再做補充那這是第一個那另外我們也開設了精神科的門診這由本院的醫務室每週一上午來開設精神科門診由臺大醫院的精神科醫師來助診提供本院同仁如果有需求的話可以來做醫療的服務那第三個我們還有一個轉介機制如果有需要的話"},{"start":2738.541,"end":2738.821,"text":"：審查委員會議"},{"start":2754.582,"end":2784.582,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":2784.722,"end":2785.983,"text":"請證書處長來回答"},{"start":2797.682,"end":2797.842,"text":"我剛剛問的"},{"start":2825.706,"end":2828.847,"text":"是不是可以透過這個問卷調查來掌握員工實際的需求有沒有可能"},{"start":2839.432,"end":2839.452,"text":"問卷"},{"start":2869.612,"end":2874.514,"text":"在明年度立法院的這個預算當中已經辦理員工協助方案列入工作的這個計畫相較在上年度這個同項目的這個預算編列從帳面上來看我們僅增加了122000元"},{"start":2890.379,"end":2915.852,"text":"如果將多出來的這個部分作為員工協助方案的這個預算其實也不算太充裕那尤其在立法院的這個預算額有553位資源若將上千名的這個公費助理也納入的話並以市場行情諮商費用來估算能夠使用的這個人次恐怕還是相當的有限那我還是再就叫我們副秘書長如果要擴大員工的這個協助方案會不會有資源不足的這個疑慮"},{"start":2917.372,"end":2944.133,"text":"謝謝委員這個部分其實在我們在這個評估明年的這個委託案的時候其實也有去考慮到那我也請人事處把這個去年的一個執行清新提供一個資料給我據我的了解那個求助的人數其實基本上並沒有那麼多那我們是用一個類似同胞的方式如果說有需要的同仁的話就去那邊來請求協助那目前為止"},{"start":2945.794,"end":2949.858,"text":"除了一般的個案之外,我們各部門當中可能會遇到危機個案或是非自願的個案我們的人事單位應該依據機關的實際情況來妥善規劃標準作業的程序"},{"start":2969.798,"end":2984.43,"text":"那但在目前立法院似乎還缺乏相關的這種預防措施或是這個緊急事件的處理機制我想再就叫我們副秘書長是否也應該完善危機或是非自願個案的這種預防和處理的流程"},{"start":2985.835,"end":3007.247,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分在上個禮拜我也就這個部分因為有一些新聞事件媒體這些公開我們也積極來就這個部分來做一些相關的一個預防或者規劃總務處的部分也召開了一些就職場霸凌的部分的防治來做一些統整"},{"start":3008.007,"end":3023.257,"text":"那我特別麻煩那個我們主辦的局處就人事處在印一些我們的那個貼紙就是那個宣導的貼紙目前我們大家可以看到目前有的是那個性騷擾的那個貼紙房子的貼紙"},{"start":3023.677,"end":3042.125,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":3042.746,"end":3055.563,"text":"員工協助方案應該作為防護網的建制,減少員工受到各種壓力的影響,落實友善職場的環境建構,讓我們的工作同仁都能夠受到關懷和照顧"},{"start":3057.806,"end":3074.285,"text":"當有這個職場霸凌的事件發生的時候需要更完善的處理機制來即使因應那近期因為許多這個政府機關傳出這種案例社會大眾也聚焦於公部門這個霸凌事件那立法院去年也曾經"},{"start":3075.871,"end":3089.243,"text":"有過職員公開陳請表示受到長官言語的霸凌我想再請教副部長在您上任的這期間有沒有接到員工的霸凌的申訴目前沒有"},{"start":3091.837,"end":3114.379,"text":"當然能夠不發生霸凌事件是我們最理想的一個目標也需要完善的處理流程院內工作同仁既有適用公務員法令的職員也有勞工身份的公費助理因為身份別的不同遭遇到霸凌事件的時候法規和申訴流程恐怕也有差異"},{"start":3115.58,"end":3137.445,"text":"尤其是助理身份更特殊是應該以發薪水的立法院還是僱主委員為主現行的立法院防霸凌的處理作業要點中也僅將員工區分不同受理的單位我想再請教我們副局長若我們這個院內的職員和公費助理遭受到霸凌的時候分別應該要向誰來申訴"},{"start":3140.834,"end":3170.134,"text":"目前我先大概簡單回答一下,如果等不夠的話民生書館再做補充目前的申訴案件我們基本上是會受理的當然剛剛委員提到了不同的身分別的時候是不是有不同的程序我想這個部分的確是有這樣的一個狀況目前正在檢討說我們是不是把我們的那個申訴處理作業要點能夠把它擴大擴及到所有的我們在我們立法院這個場域裡面工作的所有的人員"},{"start":3175.6,"end":3183.609,"text":"有一個問題我想請教我們的這個當事人如果申訴的時候能不能受到一個比較完善的一個保護"},{"start":3186.172,"end":3214.411,"text":"沒有問題吧?沒有問題沒有問題那職場霸凌的這個案件當中時常是這個首長或是主管藉著不同等的這個權力來霸凌員工那在立法院當中權力位階最高的可能就是113位的這個立法委員那如果今天發生在這個立委霸凌職員或是助理甚至是反過來受到這個職場霸凌造成委員就是案件的這個當事人的時候立法院是否能夠介入來處理或調查"},{"start":3217.867,"end":3235.61,"text":"基本上這個部分我們請那個處長來這個應該是副秘書長你要回答怎麼會請處長我來回答這個部分其實立法委員他有一個特別的身份那當然在我們的國會裡頭他有一個特權那當然這個特權不包含霸凌的這個部分"},{"start":3236.271,"end":3264.036,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":3264.316,"end":3284.968,"text":"委員應該要有領導職能的平和的機制在現行的公務人員升遷法當中徵定若是主管職務應該平和其領導能力我想請教副部長多年來作為機關的重要主管是否也認同法治局提出的這種建議"},{"start":3286.289,"end":3313.639,"text":"就這個部分我先給答案好了基本上我是認同的認同的原因是在於說其實所有在機關服務的同仁應該都是一致的除了業務有那個職務的高低以外就於人的本質的部分他應該受到這個基本的尊重這個應該是大家的那個普世價值所以說我經常在新進同仁報到以後我會找時間去看一下新進同仁他的對於我們"},{"start":3314.279,"end":3314.319,"text":"多關心齁"},{"start":3338.882,"end":3338.902,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":3369.066,"end":3371.499,"text":"謝謝接下來我們請鍾瑞雄委員發言"},{"start":3381.152,"end":3401.619,"text":"謝謝主席請我們立法院副秘書長副秘書長請問一下副秘書長他身體不變我們剛剛有選他血氧降到很低問他比較好玩可是因為身體因素我們一定是第一方沒問題當然身體最重要來副秘書長副秘書長是多大你也不知道備詢這個準備這樣不行我來請教幾個問題就我們立法院"},{"start":3411.087,"end":3437.746,"text":"這個簽件或者擴建這樣的一個問題我記得我們本來是26個地址選址到最後變成6個那當然現在的一個狀況我看這整個會期這樣子似乎草野動蕩不安你們可能要花更多的心思在這個議事上但是也快一年的時間對於整個立法院的一個"},{"start":3440.446,"end":3444.959,"text":"擴建委員會或者尋找新的一個場域裡面你們現在這個計畫有沒有在進行?"},{"start":3448.609,"end":3469.508,"text":"好謝謝委員關心那就是剛剛委員所提到的我們之前有立法院未來國會院警規劃諮詢委員會他的成員有21人招派了6次會議是啦這就不用再給我拖時間了我就你就簡單跟他說你怎麼有編預算嘛預算也編了你們編了多少本來去年編了多少好這個部分709萬709嘛還有開的錢嗎"},{"start":3472.808,"end":3501.895,"text":"還沒有一天就沒開到還沒有那你不做事了報告委員這個部分是這樣啦容我再補充一下在113年5月的時候總務處有報請邀請了黨團協商組成國會貢獻規劃及監督委員會那這個部分我們必須要等到議決以後然後配合預算709萬來辦理後續的規劃啦那如果說沒有在113年執行去年編的709就是給今年用那現在已經12月份了嘛"},{"start":3502.495,"end":3504.4,"text":"那你們預算怎麼辦保留?什麼到時候?都12月底了,什麼到時候?那就不可能辦保留了吧?"},{"start":3514.156,"end":3538.508,"text":"副部長答詢不能開玩笑,你動作在這裡,我是在跟你開槓這個是很嚴肅的事情,去年編的預算今年用,然後今年用你說可以講了很多理由,朝野動盪不安,為了整個議事你們這個幾乎心思花在這個地方,所以整個擴建我們就全部都停擺了就算你停擺,那你這個去年編的錢,你今年就沒編了嘛"},{"start":3541.576,"end":3550.656,"text":"所以說嘛從看你們花錢跟看你們有沒有編預算我就看得出來新任院長的心思嘛不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":3551.67,"end":3553.091,"text":"總規一句話你認為在韓院長任內裡面會有任何作為嗎?"},{"start":3580.985,"end":3593.634,"text":"這個部分我是不是請總務處長來做一個補充他沒有辦法回答這個啦搞不好你也沒辦法回答啦我是說從你們沒有編預算還有別人編的預算你們一毛錢都沒花就可以知道你這個態度了嘛這個不要跟我講漂亮的話這個議題是朝野最高度共識的欸到底是你們怠惰"},{"start":3603.517,"end":3624.221,"text":"程序上啦齁程序上黨團協商還是你們你不要推給黨團協商嘛這不要推給黨團協商這立法院是最有高度共識的你不要推給就立法院所有的各黨你們就沒有積極的作為啊如果啦如果這一個年度沒有沒有去使用到這個經費的話我們會一半保留你們會一半保留今天幾號今天幾號今天幾號你都不知道欸"},{"start":3634.895,"end":3649.725,"text":"不能嬉皮笑臉啦我跟你講我就從第一個上來的答詢我就覺得奇怪你怎麼這樣的一個答詢的一個方式可能你沒有準備喔可能是要周秘書長來自己親自來來來備詢的但也不能這樣像這一種東西就是親著我親著叫一下也可以回答什麼你給我回答這樣"},{"start":3653.174,"end":3653.234,"text":"我們積極辦理"},{"start":3684.056,"end":3687.082,"text":"對啦要積極辦理積極辦理是四個字積極辦理你們怎麼積極辦理法"},{"start":3689.974,"end":3706.608,"text":"市部的部分,會後再跟總務處這邊來做商討不行啦,你們這樣不行啦一毛錢都沒有花,你說你要積極辦理當然大家都年輕啦,這就不對啦立法院,我再另外一個重要的問題啦大家都希望是無紙化啦不要浪費這麼多的一座我給你看一下三天分的三天的,再過年一個你覺得你地下室你看過嗎?有多嗎?"},{"start":3716.997,"end":3730.852,"text":"有很多很可怕那確實是很可怕那這個議題我倒是這樣子認為我們立法院我們其實也在推這個五子化的一個會議但我相信大多數人也不太清楚你如果從立法院的內網裡面那個網站"},{"start":3733.815,"end":3733.855,"text":"﹚審查委員會議"},{"start":3754.85,"end":3778.022,"text":"我們也立法院身為最高民意機關我們也必須要去做一個社會的典範我們立法院是不是應該更加強來推動這樣電子化的公文系統讓沒有必要的紙張浪費來做一個減少怎麼樣去避免本期認為這個很重要尤其是說我也認為立法院應該建置一些量化的一個指標比如說"},{"start":3779.229,"end":3781.51,"text":"一年我要減少多少值的使用量的一個百分比然後呢"},{"start":3790.179,"end":3792.68,"text":"我相信立法院應該是積極來辦理的我不曉得你們的意見怎麼樣可以再加強嗎"},{"start":3820.387,"end":3834.235,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分我想五指化這個趨勢是大家世界上共通的趨勢然後這部分可以分為兩個部分一個部分是電子公文的部分 一個部分是會議資料的部分這我都知道 先跟你說 我現在跟你說你要怎麼積極辦理就像你剛講的積極辦理 你有報嗎我要求的時候你要去做一個量化指標定期做一個公佈 你們有誰有沒有來幫忙他"},{"start":3847.441,"end":3847.782,"text":"副秘書長來回答這個問題"},{"start":3852.416,"end":3852.456,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":3883.14,"end":3886.955,"text":"當年的用紙量大概是15000令那到"},{"start":3888.075,"end":3900.817,"text":"去年大概112年的統計已經降到4000令所以我們整個很具體的一個節省大概73%的一個節省一年減7%?一年差不多不止1%請問你說7%?73%一年減73%?95年到112年總共減73%"},{"start":3917.02,"end":3944.268,"text":"本來是15000令今年呢今年大概也會預估大概用了目前113年到現在用1278令而已減少的跟去年減少的幅度做比較呢減少因為到113年以後就穩定了大概都是用4000令左右所以我的意思就是說我希望你沒有一個具體的一個指標那我會跟你"},{"start":3945.626,"end":3952.94,"text":"一間辦公室三天就這麼可怕 那麼多的一個辦公室有點可惜你看那個程序委員會對不對 起了大家手在手上就有人在現"},{"start":3957.768,"end":3979.819,"text":"你又不備又不行能夠電子化的盡量電子化好不好另外我要來幫我們立法院那麼多的助理來談一個問題我們在立法院工程的問題浪不浪費這個就是你們自己好好要自己去做一個檢討但是工程方面我不曉得你們有沒有注意到就是說立法院一天才有落一個機車走你在停你知道嗎有人知道這個問題嗎差不多就好了我有請我辦公室去算"},{"start":3988.493,"end":3989.473,"text":"我們地下的坡道是暗藏危機 要特別小心"},{"start":4016.084,"end":4017.766,"text":"秘書長、副秘書長或總務處長討論一下地下停車場的坡道可不可以改成比較防滑一點"},{"start":4024.653,"end":4048.06,"text":"防法一點﹖要不然你也要給那些助理大家這樣如果預計落後天提心吊膽這也不好這個是立委的沒問題大家有車的我也看到很少看到立委騎機車到立法院來的但是助理很多都騎機車那100多部放在外面的不算你要下去那個地方我相信你們也收到反應錢該花在刀口上的還是要去花了好不好最後一個問題我要就教的就是說你都有要出入識別卡嗎"},{"start":4053.281,"end":4056.322,"text":"委員指的是哪一種顏色的嗎?因為他有分不同的顏色。出入證啊。你也出入證啊。問他的功能啦。"},{"start":4069.468,"end":4069.488,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":4090.245,"end":4108.981,"text":"一些門禁、考勤、交通支付甚至於都讓拿的人都會覺得說它是非常有一個便利性好好地再去想一下讓這些使用的人覺得很便利那也體現一下你們對員工的一個照顧嘛"},{"start":4109.853,"end":4109.873,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":4127.381,"end":4153.531,"text":"不然立法院所有的各局處都在處理議事工房沒有這種事嘛你們各個單位全部都是不同的嘛那這個沒有提升的話代表沒有在做事啊你不能說立法院都是沒人管的立法院都是可以管你們的怎麼會不能管我們是說早末每一個政黨早末在政治議題啊可是你立法院該去提升的這個部分跟其他的各個單位啊立法院是一個院欸"},{"start":4155.032,"end":4157.853,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 這個部分我們會來做一個研究提升它的功能"},{"start":4181.12,"end":4207.511,"text":"這個有必要啦 不然現在真的是太陽春啦 怨欸 我們這叫做怨欸 不要開玩笑欸好不好 你那個立法院那個簽件跟擴建那件事情喔 不要再推給各黨團好不好 你們錢沒有給人家用一毛錢 然後沒有去辦保留 然後明年的今年沒有給他兵辦毛錢 這代表叫做不是說你們以後要積極辦理 這個叫做怠惰啦好不好"},{"start":4208.42,"end":4231.58,"text":"謝謝委員,我們會辦保留啊,謝謝謝謝中委,欸,那個蜂蜜蜂蜜,我想請教,就是說,不好意思我,謝謝就是他那個,因為我注意到,就是立委下那個地下通道的時候他會有一個車牌辨識系統,然後那個同仁下去的時候他那個機車沒有辦法辨識,他可不可以多裝一個那個,不然我看他每一次都在那裡,被警察"},{"start":4232.483,"end":4232.503,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":4248.769,"end":4251.93,"text":"主席在場的委員先進列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生"},{"start":4277.28,"end":4292.426,"text":"主席我可以先請副秘書長但是我要先瞭解他哪些部分可以取代秘書長再請其他可以幫忙的人上來可以嗎先請副秘書長好不好麻煩副秘書長我來問一下啦那我再決定要請誰來協助他因為"},{"start":4293.43,"end":4321.452,"text":"所以你的意思是說時間先不要動,那我們先先不要動。副秘書長,因為抱歉喔,如果今天是秘書長的話,那我就可以很放心,那我必須詢問一下你對於法規的選手才決定邀請哪些主管來協助你好嗎?你對中華民國憲法熟悉嗎?熟讀啦齁?基本上熟悉。好,針對他們熟讀吧?立法院主治法熟悉吧?有閱讀過。立法院職權刑事法如果不了解的話你會問誰?"},{"start":4323.154,"end":4332.316,"text":"法治局還是議事處那議事規則不熟悉你會問誰議事處目前在熟悉當中因為修了很多啦我熟悉的是比較舊的那立法院各委員會主支法你熟嗎"},{"start":4347.748,"end":4349.849,"text":"你認為立法院存在的目的這個組織什麼目的根據組織法第二條目的是什麼"},{"start":4375.117,"end":4402.552,"text":"是不是要協助立法委員來問政行使憲法的職權是不是你不用看法條我就告訴你了立法院組織法立法委員行使職權嘛好那立法委員就來開會嘛你認為立法院組織法存在就是要讓我們立法院來開會你認為民主國家的軍隊可以阻止國會議員到立法院開會嗎到國會開會嗎可不可以基本上不行不行好那我們憲法規定啊我們中華民國憲法總統可不可以宣布戒嚴"},{"start":4405.148,"end":4422.998,"text":"可以可以但是要怎麼樣是不是要經過立法院的通過或追認是那沒有通過或追認有沒有效基本上呃不會憲法第39條你首讀嘛對不對對好那麼正確條文認為總統在戒嚴的時候可以解散國會嗎不可以嘛這直接回答顯然你不太熟喔顯然不太熟喔不可以對不對"},{"start":4433.74,"end":4459.06,"text":"所以如果在臺灣我們根據中華民國憲法根據那條文總統要宣布戒嚴要經過國會同意而且在這段時間不能解散國會要維持國會的運作是不是這樣那戒嚴法第11條什麼時候我們可以宣布戒嚴要有戰爭或叛亂發生嘛對不對而且如果在一個月內要提交立法院追認嘛是不是所以今天我們昨天看到一個情況你認為在臺灣可不可能發生"},{"start":4461.428,"end":4464.009,"text":"那麼請問議事處跟法制局的分別執掌剛剛問過了齁那麼"},{"start":4488.308,"end":4497.755,"text":"法治局他是根據什麼?議事處處負責什麼?議事的事項對不對?法治局是法治的諮詢你確定嗎?好來往下看"},{"start":4498.612,"end":4526.594,"text":"那往下看所以我們在發生了所謂的要成立院會要成立國發基金調查委員會他在11月20號院會決議要成立到他的委員會11月27號名單送議事處那12月2號我們提示開會選召委那時候呢你認為院會我先問你院會的決議可不可以抵觸法律可不可以違背法律不行很好往下看"},{"start":4527.569,"end":4540.94,"text":"來我們看一下這是院會的決議11月22號他有幾個重點他規定了調查會的組成按照各黨團的席次比例推派對不對一席次比例分布多少席61761是不是這樣子然後推派是誰推派黨團推派嘛那誰會整"},{"start":4557.777,"end":4571.214,"text":"議事處會診 會診有沒有審查或否準的權利 沒有 他只是會診 然後呢 院會匯報 什麼叫院會匯報 匯報給大會知道嘛 各黨能送來的名單嘛 院會有否準的權利嗎 有沒有 有沒有否準的權利"},{"start":4576.513,"end":4604.264,"text":"大聲點有沒有 要慢慢講 沒有基本上是沒有 沒有好 那麼他這裡面規定了黨團來推派比例如何而且規定了名單要跟院會報告第一次會議什麼時間決定了對不對決定了時間對不對 就是12月2號然後呢 是由國民黨黨團來推派臨時主席對不對臨時主席要做什麼事情 要決定召集人對不對召集人幾位"},{"start":4608.121,"end":4611.002,"text":"根據立法院各委員會組織法第4至1條"},{"start":4634.144,"end":4651.661,"text":"委員會的議程是不是由召委來決定?那麼調查委員會?調查委員會的議程是不是由調查委員會的召委來決定?那根據我們過去的慣例調查委成立之後召委產生之後是不是調查委員會的議程由該委員會的召委來決定?是嗎?是不是?"},{"start":4655.575,"end":4665.946,"text":"好 那請問一下安排議程是照理的法定職權 院會可以決議委員會第一次12月2號議決的內容 要他們去處理運作要點嗎可不可以我們採委員會中心主義基本上是委員會主義好很好 謝謝下一頁"},{"start":4674.721,"end":4701.944,"text":"好接下來第二個問題既然院會要求要成立決議要成立一個調查委員會也決定調查委員會的組成也要告訴他時間名單等等等還包括說要推選出召委而推選那個召委之前的臨時主席是由國民黨來推派都訂了很清楚了而且呢這個委員會呢運作的時候呢要一個要運作要點好那現在我請問一下你看了有沒有看到上上星期"},{"start":4703.515,"end":4709.999,"text":"十二強國際棒球十二強的決賽有嗎 對不對台灣的先發投手是誰林玉明林玉明很好林玉明是原來大會先發的名單當中的嗎不是中華隊台灣更換了嘛 對不對更換了依規定可以更換嗎"},{"start":4732.034,"end":4754.748,"text":"會受到處罰要罰款嘛那我們台灣就決定更換那大會可以強制不更換或強制要更換嗎不行很好所以今天我們院會的決定這個調查委員會的推派各黨人推派代表之後院會也匯報給院會知道之後第一次名單先發名單出來了先發名單出來之後民進黨團可不可以更換可不可以根據立法院執行法第45條之一事實侵犯改派可不可以"},{"start":4764.079,"end":4768.584,"text":"可不可以來 署長可不可以可不可以改派名單簽發名單出來了可不可以改派"},{"start":4773.019,"end":4800.283,"text":"這個涉及到說我們當初第一次院會的決議剛剛對阿決議阿決議說要送名單阿名單送了沒那名單如果不送的話就是預算送了沒已經送了送了送完之後可不可以改院會已經被查過了被查過了可不可以改被查過之後呢這個被查的名單就用來開第一次會好開了第一次會第一次會開的時候呢有黨團要求要改派那可不可以改那但是改派的話呢巡曆還是要再報告院會什麼叫巡曆來我們來看下一個例子來往下一看"},{"start":4802.205,"end":4823.326,"text":"當時啊我們說這個是要議事處是匯報院會報告往下一頁國民黨說啊說必須正式新聞被查方法變更有這樣的規定嗎我們現在看陳柏惟當年陳委員解職後我們黨人新聞議事處改派蔡世應院會被查什麼時候生效"},{"start":4827.352,"end":4855.586,"text":"回去查啦!被查的意思是什麼?我決定了事後告訴你就好了啦!副部長是不是這樣子?你收讀法規嘛!什麼叫被查?我決定了事後告訴你!是不是這樣子?所以處長,議事處的處長啊顯然對法規的了解有缺失啊往下看所以呢我們11月22號他說來看看調查委員會往下看要命期出席喔"},{"start":4856.616,"end":4885.39,"text":"明期出席來請問一下我們國發會的這個設置要點立法主管機關要聘請各黨團推薦的學者專家臨聘之這個基金會啊他是根據一個管理條例設置管理條例來依法臨聘之那這個臨聘的這些學者專家是由各黨團推薦好啦那現在呢要調查的時候這些學者專家有沒有出席的義務"},{"start":4887.438,"end":4904.006,"text":"立法院職員薪是吧?有沒有?基本上是臨聘啦那臨聘了以後他應該就有出席義務阿那他是對基金會的出席義務阿現在是調查委員會要請他來阿調查委員會要根據哪一條請他來往下看"},{"start":4906.943,"end":4928.133,"text":"我們來看一下齁我們的修正動議的內容啊是說什麼必案有無護航犯水刑事不法檢調真法違法失職監察院糾舉彈劾彈劾糾舉如果是行使憲法職權的特定議案的重大關聯是立法院調查那麼現在調查必案是立法院的職權嗎是不是法制局局長調查必案是誰的職權"},{"start":4935.691,"end":4939.174,"text":"請問一下目前這調查委員會他可以調查的人在我們立執法的規範當中第46條以及46條之一之二"},{"start":4964.224,"end":4966.086,"text":"第16條之二跟47條第二項和我們50條之一之三之四之五有沒有一樣"},{"start":4982.206,"end":5005.258,"text":"規範的內容有沒有一樣為你所謂的規範的內容一樣調查要求人員來進行聽證或詢問我們的調查權的行使是在第8章第45條之後他這整張都在規範調查權那他跟我們聽證權的3章59條之1到之5的內容第9章之1第9章之1對不對59條嘛對對對有沒有一樣"},{"start":5008.072,"end":5009.274,"text":"有些一樣,有些不一樣嘛。好,來,副部長,來啦。"},{"start":5012.304,"end":5040.078,"text":"我們歷史法往下一頁歷史法修改之後啊我們看到我們歷史法59條之五的第一項拒絕證言的事由涉及國安及國外交法律明定之個人隱私或公私的秘密請問59條之五的內容這些拒絕證言的事由我們在調查委員會裡面46條之一46條46條之二以及我們所說的47條第二項有沒有一致"},{"start":5042.011,"end":5065.914,"text":"有沒有疑似我直接告訴你啊47條的第二項沒有所謂的涉及國安國安外交啦也沒有法定名令的個人 Ease 跟其他秘密啦所以同樣的一個調查委員會當他辦聽證會的時候或者他進行調查的時候被詢問或調查的人他的拒絕證言的室友就不一樣了國民黨"},{"start":5067.588,"end":5087.26,"text":"院會的決議漏了國安跟隱私或營業秘密當事人可不可以主張?院會的決議只有寫喔!詢問的內容不得逾越調查目的事項範圍並於詢問前告知有拒絕證言之權利及事由拒絕證言之事由準用行政訴訟法的相關規定那麼有沒有包括59條之五的內容?有沒有包括?這樣決議的內容我們有沒有說排除59條之五的適用?"},{"start":5096.701,"end":5105.915,"text":"根文報告第50條之五在大法官宪判是第9號的解釋指向,第50條之五指第一項"},{"start":5107.895,"end":5126.609,"text":"沒有違憲第二項第三項第四項第五項第六項第七項都被大法官宣布所以這第一項的內容很重要對不對他的第一項的內容就是說出席人員有下列情形之一者的拒絕證言或表達意見區長我的設計是說11月22的決議內文有沒有排除59條之五第一項的適用"},{"start":5133.074,"end":5157.603,"text":"這個要由調查委員會的委員來他們做...欸剛剛副院長你不是說了嗎?我們立法院的院會的決定都不可以抵觸法律違背法律了難道調查委員會可以排除59條之5的第一項的適用嗎?這個既然已經成立調查委員會了這個要由調查委員的委員合議可以說我們不適用59條之5第一項可以這樣嗎?"},{"start":5159.822,"end":5180.303,"text":"第59條之五的第一項是宪判是第九號他是沒有宣布違憲要試用啊就要試用啊第59條之五的第一項的內容對於當事人被要求去詢問的當事人的權利保障比47條"},{"start":5182.777,"end":5211.689,"text":"的第二項更重要：主席有下列之一的拒絕陣營或表達意見：他可以拒絕陣營：他也可以表達意見應該要適用嗎?適用阿 這樣就對了問了半天 最後我要結束主席站起來 下一項好 最後呢 這個跟我們預算執行阿我們目前 副院長你知道我們立法院的會議是有一些空氣品質指標阿這個會議是有沒有?應該有阿 沒有阿 沒有空氣品質指標阿"},{"start":5213.647,"end":5233.7,"text":"指標的部分那個部分會議是公報處的部分公報處有沒有有沒有空氣品質指標總務處是哪一個處管的你都搞不清楚哪裡有空有沒有2011就有啦2011的交通委員會就有啦教育委員會紅樓伊尼也有啦那為什麼這裡沒有"},{"start":5234.625,"end":5263.147,"text":"是否要有?空氣品質指標要不要有?每個會議室都裝潮好不好?可以承諾嗎?好,空氣品質很重要。噪音污染要不要研究一下?那也要求比照空氣品質指標,把每個會議室的噪音啊,的指標也放進去。因為我們會議室啊,這個職場啊,霸凌呢,空氣不好,噪音過潮,都會妨害我們的意識。承諾每個會議室都安裝兩個,空氣品質跟噪音,可以嗎?"},{"start":5264.79,"end":5294.094,"text":"可以,如果委員支持的話好,那當空氣品質不佳或者是噪音產生的話怎麼辦有沒有斷訊斷音什麼情況之下可以斷音什麼消音什麼時候可以斷訊有沒有這個規範主席可以決定嘛,主席可以決定是不是阿如果空氣品質太差聲音太吵怎麼處理基本上這是國會自律事項國會自律事項,設備要不要支持要支持主席可以做出這樣的決定嘛"},{"start":5295.077,"end":5322.184,"text":"好那請我們最後一頁所以呢我們希望調查委員會根據我們的立職法那麼應該就要遵照立職法的規定而且請責成法治局立職法通過之後前後條文相關需要整合的配套規章要求一併提出一個研究報告這個跟委員報告我們在憲判是第9號之後我們有做一個那個"},{"start":5323.694,"end":5349.162,"text":"因備齊的配套規章有沒有準備?配套規章準備了沒?我們是有把它整理啦,把它整理後我們事後再提供給委員會跟委員辦公室可不可以?副秘書長,責任法治局一個月內把相關的配套規章因備齊的條文應該補齊的,我們國會要趕快迅速推動內規我是問副秘書長啦,一個月內可以嗎?"},{"start":5353.527,"end":5354.047,"text":"黃國昌委員發言"},{"start":5370.475,"end":5371.836,"text":"我們現在是不是可以請副秘書長"},{"start":5400.492,"end":5418.845,"text":"副秘書長副秘書長好我們今天處理有關於立法院的預算那針對立法院的預算第一個問題是我們國會交流的事務我們預算增加了2500萬你有發現嗎"},{"start":5423.733,"end":5450.546,"text":"預算為什麼需要增加2500萬的這件事情是不是可以請我們負責國會交流的處事後再給所有的委員一個比較詳盡的書面資料因為我想你要多2500萬代表你要做很多新的事情讓所有的委員都知道這樣我們在審核預算的時候才有一個基準一個禮拜之內會有困難嗎"},{"start":5453.542,"end":5472.167,"text":"沒有問題沒有問題嘛那第二個事情就是說因為我們立法院裡面我們要去審人家的預算我們自己的預算到底怎麼用這件事情其實我們立法院自己要做表率啦那也因此我希望因為"},{"start":5473.519,"end":5487.346,"text":"新的國會台灣民眾黨當初所提出來的一個重要的訴求就是我們經費的使用必須要透明那這件事情呢當初不管是中國國民黨"},{"start":5489.173,"end":5510.319,"text":"還是民主進步黨他們的政府院長的候選人到台灣民眾黨黨團來拜會的時候他們也做出承諾了那因此我希望針對我們有關於國會交流事務的費用如果是有本院其他的一些自集團體所申請的話"},{"start":5511.806,"end":5533.838,"text":"那院長或者是透過什麼樣的機制准的話我覺得應該要有一個公開透明的機制讓大家都可以看得到這件事情會不會有困難不會有困難不會有困難嘛但是我必須要老實講到目前為止過去舊的國會到我們今天備詢為止這個制度都沒有建立起來"},{"start":5535.542,"end":5548.495,"text":"這個制度都沒有建立起來我當初201616到2020第一次當立法委員的時候我曾經有要過這樣的資料結果要這樣的資料引發那個時候高層蠻高的關切"},{"start":5550.977,"end":5580.337,"text":"但是我覺得這個事情我們所有的公務支出正正當當既然編在國家的預算裡面納稅人所使用那就應該讓全體納稅人都可以有一個機制大家都可以看得到那這個部分是不是再拜託秘書長回去跟同仁研議看什麼樣的時間點這個制度可以把它做起來那譬如說今年顯然來不及了嘛那明年我們的預算開始執行的時候這件事情是不是可以做到"},{"start":5581.337,"end":5599.869,"text":"副委員可以我接下來要問的是立法委員在議場裡面有攻防這難免但問題是立法委員在攻防的時候毀損公務這件事情這個錢到底應該要誰出這個錢應該納稅人出嗎副委員"},{"start":5610.007,"end":5631.235,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分應該是損壞者要負賠償責任好 那具體的來請教5月17號民進黨立委吳秉瑞砸毀備群台的螢幕請問這個修繕花了多少錢這邊容我請那個可以找熟悉的人上來回答"},{"start":5634.336,"end":5643.34,"text":"報告委員有關那個螢幕壞掉的部分的話是請廠商來維修目前沒有花錢就在保固就是維護裡面來執行就還在保固期間嗎OK好第二個11月4號財政委員會他砸毀了整個麥克風啊又是吳秉瑞這個花了多少錢"},{"start":5655.692,"end":5674.904,"text":"報告委員因為我們有關麥克風都會做備品的一個備品那因為麥克風使用他是非常及時的所以當這個設備有損壞的時候我們馬上是用備品來做使用那雖然是備品備品不要錢嗎備品要錢所以要多少錢目前我們在"},{"start":5681.645,"end":5690.128,"text":"備品使用以後再去買備品大概花了14萬花了14萬嗎?對阿花了14萬來請副秘書長誰應該要賠損壞者應該要負賠償責任那有跟損壞者求償嗎?損壞者有賠嗎?這個事情應該納稅人買單嗎?這是我的問題目前還沒有進行這樣的一個求償程序阿有打算要進行求償的程序嗎?還是就算了?"},{"start":5711.633,"end":5735.468,"text":"報告委員因為這個好像在院會裡面有一個對針對著這一個案子有一個提案那可能我們會依照這個院會的提案歸院會的提案嘛在侵權行為法裡面在刑法裡面毀損罪構成民事的侵權行為要負損害賠償責任這個是最基本的道理嘛"},{"start":5736.761,"end":5746.572,"text":"這是最基本的道理嘛這跟院會有沒有什麼樣的案子到底有什麼關係這是我的困惑這是我的困惑"},{"start":5748.191,"end":5748.631,"text":"副秘書長這個事情處理要多久?"},{"start":5775.734,"end":5799.783,"text":"如果委員都有公司的話基本上我們有一個月的時間把它處理掉用一個月的時間把它處理掉嘛好我要問的第二個問題是我們現在立法院各個會議室沒有申請使用我們自己可以開門去用嗎不開放使用不開放使用那我如果就是自己開門進去用了會怎麼樣目前是沒有法則"},{"start":5800.663,"end":5802.104,"text":"基本上是不開放時間不可以啦"},{"start":5827.301,"end":5851.121,"text":"那不可以但是我就是這樣子做了那現在打算要怎麼辦因為我們現在立法院的運作是要回到叢林法則嗎當然不是那所以這件事情你們有沒有什麼言議因為人家說啦說這是喇叭鎖阿沒有破壞阿用非常平和的手段阿就可以進來了那這個鎖要不要換阿"},{"start":5852.463,"end":5853.243,"text":"希望以後齁"},{"start":5881.311,"end":5907.863,"text":"不要再發生這樣的事情那最後一件事情這個是我要特別請你們回去研議的協商會議的會議記錄是不是應該都應該上網刊登公報是嗎從資訊公開的角度的話我們希望這個方式我跟副秘書長反映一下因為我常常會查立法紀錄我上次本委員會在處理"},{"start":5909.847,"end":5936.087,"text":"接避責保護法的時候我去查我們第9屆國會接避責保護法黨團協商委員會協商的會議紀錄結果我上去找了立法院議事及公報資訊網我在上面完全找不到那找不到呢我就請教了一下我們的同仁我們的同仁說2020年2月之前如果黨團協商沒有結論不會把會議紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":5939.79,"end":5957.862,"text":"那我現在只有一個問題黨團協商雖然沒有結論但是那個會議是有進行的而且那個時候應該IVOD都已經啟用了那是沒有做會議記錄導致沒有辦法上網還是有做會議記錄但是決定不要上網可以"},{"start":5963.41,"end":5974.218,"text":"跟委員報告那有關協商的部分發言跟那個影音是由公報處來做處理那我們會錄音錄影還有做書面的記錄但是黨團協商的那個報告是應該由那個黨團的協商的沒有沒有我現在不是在講黨團協商的報告是整個會議的會議記錄"},{"start":5986.766,"end":6005.743,"text":"比如說主席宣布開會哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話之後的2020年2月以後的都有2020年2月以前的沒有現在我的問題是說之前是沒有記錄所以沒有上網還是有記錄但是沒有上網"},{"start":6008.408,"end":6029.015,"text":"記錄我們是會有但是那時候沒有上網是沒有上網的問題有記錄但不上網的理由是什麼過去應該是沒有因為上網的那個是到後面才2002年才開始有這個機制現在這個就是我的問題可不可以請你們回去研議一下"},{"start":6030.134,"end":6054.353,"text":"我們如果手上沒有資料你說要同仁重新回去聽黨可能人力耗費過去這我可以理解但如果既然已經有了資料的話要不要考慮一下之前的資料立法的過程盡量讓他透明嘛那這樣子的話不管是立委或者是其他的公民大家要追蹤這整部法案"},{"start":6056.598,"end":6077.806,"text":"到底是發生了什麼樣的事情誰做過什麼樣的主張或者是發言才有跡可循嗎這應該沒有很困難吧副秘書長可不可以承諾回去研究一下如果有記錄的話看用什麼樣子的方式逐步把它公開好不好好這個部分我們會後來做研究OK好謝謝謝謝黃委員那下一位我們請審法會委員發言"},{"start":6099.954,"end":6122.586,"text":"主席我們請副秘書長麻煩副秘書長委員好副秘書長辛苦了今天臨危受命在這裡大概我不知道你是不是能夠回答所有的問題不過我希望說你盡量能夠如果說你沒有辦法回答了你就請同仁上來協助謝謝這個"},{"start":6127.711,"end":6137.039,"text":"今天是我們這個有關110年度中央政府總預算案有關立法院的主管收支部分所以我就就預算的部分來跟副秘書長來討論那這個我們立法院組織法第32條"},{"start":6145.09,"end":6157.295,"text":"我們在112年12月18日三讀通過有關公費助理實施健康檢查這個明定入法在112年12月18也明定在114年1月1日開始實施也就是說再過不到一個月"},{"start":6169.124,"end":6176.689,"text":"我們就要開始實施這個公費助理實施健康檢查的有補助對不對副部長對不對沒錯對啦齁那這個這個目前這個資訊你們有沒有"},{"start":6185.165,"end":6210.68,"text":"透過各種方式公告收支讓所有的這些黨團以及公費助理大家了解在114年1月1號這不到一個月之後就可以申請健康檢查補助那他的申請的程序如何申請的方式怎麼樣來辦理申請可以申請多少補助等等相關資訊的宣導跟告知你們有做嗎"},{"start":6212.002,"end":6236.832,"text":"謝謝委員那個公費助理的實施健康檢查補助要點在113年5月9號已經院長已經核定了也就是剛剛委員說的從今年1月1號開始執行那這個要點在113年5月10號已經含送本院全體委員我知道要點通過了啦我意思是說在還不到一個月就要實施了你們用什麼方式來宣導讓這些讓所有立法院的所有的這些公費助理大家知道說"},{"start":6239.679,"end":6260.572,"text":"從1月開始可以申請健康檢查補助那如何申請?向誰申請?怎麼樣申請?你們有做宣導嗎?我們之前已經有行文過那現在我們可以再次行文來做宣導你們的行文給誰?助理工會?全體委員還有各黨團都知道全體委員好像沒有你們好像行文給助理工會有的那個署長來"},{"start":6262.515,"end":6289.542,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個是行文給那個全體委員的辦公室跟黨團辦公室這個已經行文過那到今年在那個健康檢查是今年的5月不是我說什麼時候行文我不是說那個要點通過也是5月10號就要點通過的時候你們就行文給對對對對對沒有錯那我們預計在明年度開始實施之前我們會再度行文就是現在啊明年度開始實施就不到一個月啦是我們會再度行文給委員"},{"start":6290.662,"end":6295.825,"text":"就不到一個月了今天已經12月4號了我們會盡快來請問你們這個實施要點裡面的第二點裡面的第三項你們寫到說補助的人數你們有補助對象補助金額補助次數補助人數"},{"start":6314.987,"end":6323.815,"text":"補助人數你們這裡說每年以各委員及黨團得聘用公會助理法定員而上限之半數為補助上限為什麼為什麼設定半數"},{"start":6327.217,"end":6348.652,"text":"只有一半的助理可以申請為什麼這個是比照公務人員因為當初這個訂法是比照公務人員的健康檢查來實施辦理那也就是說如果說每兩年一次因為公務人員的那個健檢的部分每兩年一次每兩年一次但是你們這裡你們有要點你們有規定說兩年才能申請一次嗎"},{"start":6349.272,"end":6367.709,"text":"沒有沒有是我們的經費編列就會用半數就像我們職工你們沒有規定說兩年檢查兩年才可以申請一次補助理論上是每年都可以申請補助對不對對但是我們的經費的編就不會用足額的那個時次因為是兩年一次所以不是你們兩年一次的依據在哪裡嗎"},{"start":6369.091,"end":6384.25,"text":"這個是那個參照公務人員的健檢的方式我們現在也是兩年一次辦理一次健檢就是那個兩年一次但是沒有規定兩年一次那一個人可不可以兩年都申請不行不行我們規定不行的規定在哪裡"},{"start":6385.098,"end":6406.57,"text":"這是那個公教員工的他那個有相關的規定我把規定拿出來我就是要看這個規定因為我覺得很納悶阿我們會後再送給委員把這個規定拿出來編列半數你們也沒有規定說兩年這個公費助理兩年才可以申請補助一次但是你們卻只編列了半數"},{"start":6408.479,"end":6431.096,"text":"我們會後把這個規定來送給委員但是我接著看你們的預算因為這個是明年度才新增的嘛新增的結果你們把這個預算這個有關這個健康檢查的預算你們跟這個員工的調整待遇的預算放在一起在同一個向下對不對"},{"start":6434.455,"end":6450.248,"text":"我們是放在公費助理的那個科目向下一般行政一般行政的一般事務費裡面沒有我們是放在公費助理的那個不是這個是員工協助方案對你們放在這個這個公費助理向下的這個你們的這一筆經費公費助理經費這個是多少8200欸不是"},{"start":6465.203,"end":6485.22,"text":"公費助理經費是8億2823萬1000是含薪資對所以如果是健康檢查的補助經費上年度增列你們是把它跟整個待遇調整跟健康檢查經費放在同一個向下對不對"},{"start":6487.219,"end":6492.207,"text":"我們是把那個預算書是由那個組織處這邊來編列副組長你能不能回答一下啦預算書的部分我們是不是請那個組織處來解釋好不好委員"},{"start":6504.566,"end":6527.092,"text":"委員好 有關那個公費助理他的健康檢查經費我們是編在預算書的公費助理工作計畫上下的業務費裡面有編了十萬八千元是有關委員助理的那個健康檢查經費你們是把他跟調整 調整待遇沒有沒有沒有這個是業務費調整待遇是人事費人事人事費我們預算書預算書上面的64頁64頁好那這個"},{"start":6533.05,"end":6560.399,"text":"這個部分齁你們另外有這個員工協助方案的部分啦齁EAP的部分適用對象我看你們在預算處裡面放在這個這個一般行政向下的一般事務費齁有主管人員40歲以上職工的健康檢查駕駛身心健康保護措施及員工協助方案等這放在一起對不對這員工協助方案公衛助理可以使用嗎為什麼這上面沒有提到公衛助理阿可以使用阿"},{"start":6562.806,"end":6584.367,"text":"司法對象有立法委員公費助理職員約聘僱人員主管人員40歲以上職工御用人員跟技工工友及駕駛都職這個是今年新增編列的過去沒有獨立編列對不對這今年新增編列的嘛這部分齁你們在這個這個我看你們現在的網站齁有關這個EAP的部分齁你們只有放一個放一支電話而已啦"},{"start":6585.393,"end":6606.058,"text":"放一支預約諮詢電話就這樣子沒有其他的員工這個這個員工協助方案的相關的的資訊在網路上網站上面全部沒有現在這個霸凌的問題這個這個大家這麼關注但是結果我們自己立法院在這個員工協助方案只放了一支電話這個部分回去改善好不好副部長"},{"start":6607.274,"end":6635.045,"text":"謝委員,這個剛剛其他委員也有關注到這個問題基本上我們會多加宣告接著我這個時間我要跟你確認一下因為我們這個在去年的9月立法院新成立國際事務處來慢慢來我們新成立這個國際事務處對不對去年9月成立了立法院的國際事務處對不對那我就是去年9月"},{"start":6636.144,"end":6636.344,"text":"委員會主管委員會"},{"start":6657.745,"end":6676.013,"text":"對 只有今年獨立處在編列齁 你們在國際事務室的預算案把它區分成兩個部分一個部分是一般行政 另外一個部分是國會交流的事務 對不對 這分成這兩部分一般行政的部分齁 你們過去編在這個 這個跟秘書處齁 一起編在公共關係等秘書業務經費 裡面編了1000萬"},{"start":6680.512,"end":6687.298,"text":"今年成立國際事務處之後就增加到這個1191萬增加了大概191萬左右這個是一般行政費用但是你們在這個"},{"start":6705.69,"end":6714.299,"text":"這個國會交流事務上面齁你們今年的從去年的預算齁去年邊在秘書跟秘書處混編的去年邊在國際事務處的這個國會交流事務經費齁去年是4160萬今年增加到6759萬對不對"},{"start":6726.821,"end":6729.243,"text":"為什麼增加這麼多?增加2500萬,將近2600萬2599萬的國際交流事務經費為什麼增加這麼多?我們是不是請國際處林處長回答一下"},{"start":6740.623,"end":6741.384,"text":"不是不是不是 我說為什麼增加"},{"start":6759.461,"end":6778.527,"text":"為什麼增加三大項一個是呃國會國際論壇就是明年我們是台灣呃立法院是這個appu亞太國會議員聯誼會的主辦國所以我們編了一千萬這是一個大型的國際會會大概有呃上近百個那個國會議員到台灣這個部分增加一千萬嗎是但是我們總共增加是兩千六百萬捏"},{"start":6779.087,"end":6780.828,"text":"所以還有1600萬是增加在哪裡?接待部分增加1600萬喔?為什麼?為什麼增加這麼多?"},{"start":6800.723,"end":6818.24,"text":"跟委員報告我們到今年的11月30號值我們已經有立法院已經接待55國175團1984人次也就是說今年你們認為說過去這麼多年來編列的預算不夠所以今年在明年度的預算增加了1500萬就扣掉剛剛講的1000萬"},{"start":6822.466,"end":6823.868,"text":"韓院長上任之後比以前在接待外賓增加了將近1000萬的經費"},{"start":6835.103,"end":6852.597,"text":"那我們去年是164團那我們今年已經已經到11月底175團人數你剛剛講的辦理國際論壇有沒有提供業務計畫給立法院呃這一部分要等待那個外交部跟日方那個秘書處那邊給我們相關資料我們會呈報呈報你們編列了1000萬的你說編列1000萬的預算結果在預算審查的時候連個業務計畫都沒有"},{"start":6857.691,"end":6876.99,"text":"是不是?你們連業務計畫都沒有提供就要1000萬報告委員我們是參照確認我跟你講我時間到了啦你這個編列新增這個過去沒有的項目你新增辦理這個論壇你增加了1000萬的預算你就應該要有業務啊就應該要有業務報告啊你說這個業務報告要等外交部"},{"start":6877.771,"end":6883.878,"text":"等相關的經驗但是你們怎麼算這1000萬你還是要有業務計畫啊在哪裡在預算書看到嗎在本委員會看得到嗎預算審查過程中你們有提出來嗎什麼事後在預算審查的時候你們就要提出來了啦好不好"},{"start":6901.342,"end":6924.469,"text":"謝謝那我們下一位請林月琴委員林月琴委員林月琴委員那再請鄭天才委員發言我先宣告一下在羅志祥委員發言完畢之後我們休息5分鐘謝謝"},{"start":6928.895,"end":6937.603,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請副秘書長麻煩副秘書長副秘書長好今天來不是針對你們的預算"},{"start":6942.987,"end":6971.234,"text":"而是 如果我們 我是期免啦齁 期免我們立法院的 因為畢竟 這個立法院在五院之中 非常重要的一個角色 尤其是在審查預算或是決算的時候 都非常重要 這個我們就以常常我們的 很多的立法委員會常常引用的是什麼呢 就是預算中心嘛"},{"start":6972.674,"end":6988.741,"text":"對預算中心的資料這就很重要因為這個立法委員來自各個不同的地方然後的任期也不切也不一定所以然後這個委員的助理的經驗也未必那麼的"},{"start":6989.501,"end":6990.322,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7004.189,"end":7004.209,"text":"：審查："},{"start":7030.067,"end":7057.559,"text":"這個被因為霸凌案然後就產生了這個相關的預算的滋用我們就以就業基金來講以這個為例就業安定基金這很清楚的就業安定基金的用途非常清楚用途非常清楚但是卻被挪用作為不應該滋用的地方"},{"start":7059.06,"end":7081.433,"text":"那表示什麼呢?表示這個預算的編列怎麼樣去把它檢討這個是我們要去當然立委有責任立法院的這些同仁也有責任提供就像預算中心一樣能夠提供好的一個對國家對社會有幫助的部分"},{"start":7085.922,"end":7114.077,"text":"因為這個就案提及非常重要啊你看貝爾納用到八千多萬的錢這五個很難以想像啊這裡面還包含著什麼呢包含著操資並結算啊因為預算是看不出來啊在審查預算的時候看不出來就案提及他要做什麼用他寫的很掛勉堂皇啊就是符合"},{"start":7116.207,"end":7143.065,"text":"就要安提金的用途在預算書裏面是符合啊看不出來啊但是為什麼後來可以做這種事情會被挪用就是因為操資並結算很少人知道操資並結算啊連一般的公務員也不知道操資並結算是什麼更何況這個立法委員的這些助理"},{"start":7144.841,"end":7170.621,"text":"一般公務員也不知道超支並結算事實上就是超支並結算這個機制顯然有問題預算中心的同仁怎麼樣能夠提出這樣的我也請教過預算中心我雖然是老公務員我30年公務員我還請教過預算中心什麼是超支並結算"},{"start":7172.552,"end":7200.053,"text":"因為不是每個部會都有這個有這樣的一個機會碰到遭操之並結算尤其是尤其是執行預算非常嚴謹非常依法行政的時候沒有去操之並結算當然也就不知道操之並結算的這個功能還是他的我們講法寶嗎"},{"start":7202.45,"end":7230.725,"text":"所以這個部分了﹖所以祈勉我們所有的這個立法院的同仁能夠為國家為人民來去守護我們的相關的這些預算的審查結算的審查所以顯然呢審計部沒有顯然沒有好好的就結算的部分來善盡責任"},{"start":7232.079,"end":7232.939,"text":"主席有請張副秘書長麻煩副秘書長"},{"start":7265.264,"end":7290.993,"text":"請教副秘書長南韓總統尹錫悅昨天深夜宣布緊急戒嚴令還派出武裝部隊試圖攻入議會大廈要逮捕參加會議的國會議員你身為國會的議員工作人員對於尹錫悅這種宣布戒嚴甚至用軍事力量來攻擊國會的做法你怎麼看"},{"start":7293.052,"end":7311.058,"text":"基本上是民主憲政國家不應該用這種方式來處理不應該所以你不認同這個做法但是我要告訴大家民進黨立法院黨團可是非常認同他在尹錫悅宣布戒嚴令之後的第一時間"},{"start":7312.503,"end":7338.185,"text":"他就發出一個貼文我把第一段唸給副秘書長聽南韓國會被清北韓勢力操控南韓總統尹錫悅為守護自由憲政體制緊急宣布全國戒嚴我聽到民進黨說肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由的憲政體制"},{"start":7339.875,"end":7363.943,"text":"我說真的我的下巴都被嚇到快掉下來我不知道今天副秘書長你這新聞有看到吧對不對應該很不方便回答就不問你我覺得任何正常的我們台灣的民眾聽到民進黨去肯定戒嚴還說這叫做守護自由憲政體制下巴全部被嚇到掉下來"},{"start":7365.233,"end":7392.994,"text":"那麼我只能說全歷史人瘋狂但尹錫悅讓民進黨瘋狂啊這尹錫悅這樣的一個戒嚴的動作整個民進黨好像馬上就是原形畢露就立刻把這個羊皮外衣脫掉狼性就展現出來了另外尹錫悅宣布戒嚴想要動用軍隊攻佔國會他的理由是什麼不知道秘書長知道嗎"},{"start":7394.346,"end":7412.729,"text":"他有兩個理由啦請委員指示一個是在野黨癱瘓政府另外一個是要剷除清北韓勢力我不知道秘書長你聽起來有沒有覺得很熟悉非常有既視感因為這不是在南韓發生而已啊"},{"start":7414.222,"end":7437.603,"text":"過去這一年在我們立法院當我們在追超時雞蛋當我們在審今天預算民進黨的浪費當我們在揪出今天民進黨把就業安定基金當作自己的小金庫當我們在監督民進黨殘害文官、見害文官、霸凌文官種種事情的時候民進黨扣的帽子是什麼就是我們台灣政府啊"},{"start":7441.141,"end":7468.729,"text":"就是我們變成是誰親共的勢力也難怪今天尹錫悅今天宣布戒嚴明吉良會這麼嗨真的是秒發文欸速度極快欸雖然後來刪文了啦速度非常快就把他心聲說出來了嘛明吉良可能恨自己慢了一步尹錫悅做到了明吉良沒來得及做到他可能恨這件事情啊"},{"start":7470.871,"end":7499.293,"text":"與民進黨的論調完全一樣這不是我個人主觀感受啊抱歉啊民進黨在立法院黨團的貼文說第一段大大的肯定尹錫悅戒嚴是為了守護自由憲政體制他第二段第三段講的是什麼講的就是藍白癱瘓政府民進黨在抵抗世界級的暗黑勢力就跟尹錫悅一模一樣啊"},{"start":7500.882,"end":7516.375,"text":"那我要想請問大家去想一件事情剛剛我們副秘書長已經講到了你也不認同這個做法到底尹錫悅宣布戒嚴您覺得他是守護自由憲政體制還是破壞自由憲政體制您覺得"},{"start":7518.168,"end":7520.529,"text":"這個你回答保守沒有關係但下一個問題恐怕你的回答就跟立法院直接相關了我就要問你了"},{"start":7547.148,"end":7572.168,"text":"我們偉大的民進黨立法院黨團他爐裂很負責任的爐裂為什麼他要肯定隱形院戒嚴是所謂的捍衛自由的憲政體制他其中有一個理由我看到我真的是頭都暈了他說因為立法院百般刁難王逸川就職立法院百般刁難王逸川就職"},{"start":7573.683,"end":7587.092,"text":"民進黨衝關一路為翊川阿原來拼戒嚴肯定戒嚴擁戴飲習樂是為了王翊川阿好問題來了我想請問這問題很嚴肅阿請問副秘書長大院有百般刁難王翊川就職嗎有沒有"},{"start":7596.547,"end":7620.292,"text":"沒有沒有啊那為什麼他要說你百般刁難王逸川就職啊為什麼這個部分我們並不是很清楚啦那民進黨說真的他腦袋到底塞棉花還是塞木屑啊你今天隨便掰理由你也掰出個有本據的理由什麼叫做百般刁難王逸川就職我這樣講啦就往例來講過去部分據立委的地譜大概要多少時間啊"},{"start":7622.775,"end":7641.12,"text":"部份區立委的一個地補程序有幾個過程第一個部分就是立委辭職以後我們會簽奉院長來核定以後來函中選會還有內政部來註銷這個名籍那第二個程序是中選會會依選法法規定在15日內公告地補然後"},{"start":7643.04,"end":7668.947,"text":"第三個程序是中選會公告以後會喊請司法院派大法官來監視那這個宣誓時間就協商院長大法官還有委員的時間來辦理宣誓以往平均的時間大概是一個禮拜本次宣誓時間也是一個禮拜左右對嘛民進黨有點學問好不好沒有常識沒有知識起碼去考據一下嘛"},{"start":7670.337,"end":7683.632,"text":"紅森漢是11月25日接任勞動部長王逸川是12月2日在立法院宣誓就職沒錯吧就一個禮拜阿別人一個禮拜沒事你王逸川一個禮拜叫做刁難他阿你王逸川是皇帝還是什麼今生"},{"start":7689.401,"end":7717.059,"text":"塗在身上啊 碰不得啊 要跟人家不一樣啊更好笑的是竟然王逸川可以成為民進黨衝關一路拼戒嚴肯定戒嚴的一個理由搞到半天竟然是支持尹錫悅戒嚴肯定尹錫悅戒嚴為了自由新人體制竟然是為了王逸川你民進黨不要笑死人好不好"},{"start":7718.39,"end":7741.785,"text":"再下一個我也要跟民主組長講謝謝你剛剛回答很清楚不要讓這些抹黑黨在那邊亂抹黑像剛剛拿出鐵證來打臉他們一個禮拜時間什麼叫刁難別人一個禮拜不叫刁難你一個禮拜叫刁難莫名其妙的民進黨再下一個我就要問也是跟您有關跟國會有關這跟國會的安全跟尊嚴有關的問題"},{"start":7747.64,"end":7775.987,"text":"當然我們萬萬不期待南韓的情況在台灣發生但是呢如果今天我們總統真的跟尹錫悅一樣賴清德跟尹錫悅一樣宣布戒嚴那如果還動用軍隊來攻佔國會逮捕國會議員我想請問這種情形發生的話在法制上在現況上立法院如何因應"},{"start":7778.069,"end":7793.964,"text":"基本上 憲法上國會有家宅權 那我們有家宅權當然有一些防禦的一個配置面對是國軍 軍隊 武裝部隊 你的防禦 有辦法防禦嗎還有一個問題喔 能防禦嗎"},{"start":7801.842,"end":7823.321,"text":"總統下令軍隊來打國會 國會就算說今天有國會的駐衛警 國會的駐衛警能夠去跟軍隊不要講能力啦 我講說法制上他能夠防禦嗎 還是大門一開就讓軍隊進來實質上這個是勢力非常懸殊啦 那第二個部分就法制層面來看啦 不應該有這種情況發生啦我跟你講在南韓也不應該這種情況發生 南韓是民主國家"},{"start":7827.682,"end":7855.801,"text":"也是民主國家然後用的所謂的攻打國會理由跟民進黨87%相像啊所以這個部分應該還是有那個憲政機關來互相尊重我要跟大家講今天南韓最後坦白講我覺得接近總統政變總統在推翻民主總統在推翻憲政用的理由就是民進黨現在用的理由可是還好南韓我覺得的民主的根基是深厚的"},{"start":7857.214,"end":7882.424,"text":"顯然他們的軍隊也沒那麼配合所以這個總統想要遂行個人的意志來顛覆民主政權短短幾個小時昨天晚上就失敗了半夜宣布的戒嚴早上起來就不見了這個是今天真的能夠抵抗獨裁者最重要的韌性所以在這邊因為南韓昨天發生這麼重大的事情而且是跟國會有關的"},{"start":7884.045,"end":7907.437,"text":"所以今天在這邊也來救教一下副秘書長 最後還是一個簡單的結論尹錫悅瘋了啦 但民進黨更瘋 進來後就肯定尹錫悅瘋狂的民進黨 謝謝接下來我們請林思明委員 那我們接下來休息五分鐘"},{"start":7910.64,"end":7915.174,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":8244.472,"end":8245.214,"text":"主席副秘書長"},{"start":8263.097,"end":8287.64,"text":"副委員我想先就公費助理的議題來詢問你我們看到國會助理是對我們立委問政非常重要的左右手在委員的問政及辦公室的運作都是要靠這些助理給我們充分的協助所以幕僚實際上就是我們委員整個職權行使的延伸"},{"start":8288.801,"end":8317.203,"text":"當然我們在分工上也包羅萬象不管是有跑行程有處理選服行政事務製作質詢稿撰寫相關的談餐研擬法案所以業務是非常的多元所以助理的專業水準高我們的立委的問政的品質水準也會這個相對的提高所以幕僚的性質也就是公費助理的角色"},{"start":8318.324,"end":8318.945,"text":"公費助理的待遇"},{"start":8336.141,"end":8349.23,"text":"通常我們這個新鮮人跟這些資深助理會有一定的落差所以關於公費助理的待遇如何進一步的完善我們整個助理的一個"},{"start":8350.645,"end":8369.234,"text":"高的流動率如何來降低一個流動率讓人才願意留下來為我們立法院來服務那這部分我想就叫我們的這個復名組長我們也看到最近就是整個霸凌事件所造成的重大職場的不友善的事件"},{"start":8370.214,"end":8399.28,"text":"所以我們立法院是否可以以身作則在公費助理長期處在一個高壓的備障狀態之下能夠關注我們助理的身心健康所以是否能夠打造適時紓壓的友善職場環境來提高助理的續航力在這一部分我們立法院有沒有相關的一些舉措相關的一個友善我們職場環境的一個相關的一個辦法或規定"},{"start":8401.549,"end":8418.262,"text":"謝謝委員的關心,我想公費助理的重要性,剛剛委員所說的那個內容,我們都同意而且非常認同。就委員所垂詢的,有關助理的薪資的"},{"start":8420.384,"end":8440.316,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":8441.757,"end":8455.743,"text":"其他部分剛剛委員所提到的我再補充一點就調薪的部分歷來公費助理調薪都依例都比照軍公教調薪的這種方式來辦理目前委員的助理薪資每個月"},{"start":8458.304,"end":8483.412,"text":"總數是45萬多元那當然注意的話是57萬多元那這部分會比照來做調整那另外委員所垂詢的這個目前的一個媒體上可能有這些霸凌的狀況產生那本院除了定有立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要點這個部分在處理的部分我們也是適用的"},{"start":8490.535,"end":8500.099,"text":"根據本席了解,公費助理編列的預算中關於每會期每人的文康活動費的運用資訊好像不是很透明"},{"start":8501.024,"end":8525.605,"text":"就是說你對於這個相關這個助理的相關的文康活動費的運用他的整個資用的一個情形並沒有跟我們的助理工會做相關的一個討論所以是否未來可以就整個我們相關這些有關於助理的文康活動費或者相關的費用的支出能夠更加的公開"},{"start":8526.866,"end":8534.201,"text":"把整個運用的一個細項能夠跟助理工會來做充分的討論來符合我們公開透明的原則"},{"start":8535.731,"end":8561.448,"text":"好,謝謝委員的關心這個部分有關於公費助理的一個文康活動費的補助的部分那我們都一直以來都是要參照本院職工文康活動的編列跟使用然後按年度來編列公費助理文康活動經費那我們也研擬了補助的一個要點草案那相關的一個事項會後會在助理公會來做一個研討"},{"start":8563.149,"end":8585.266,"text":"我想剛才副委員你也同意說我們助理非常的辛苦那現在大概就是一年你剛才講是四十二萬四十五萬八千多元那一年如果說把公費的助理的預算如果調升大概百分之二十一年的預算大概會增加多少"},{"start":8588.278,"end":8593.888,"text":"因為你也肯定說他們很辛苦嘛所以未來他們的待遇有沒有在於調高的可能性"},{"start":8596.821,"end":8618.97,"text":"這個部分我們有沒有做研擬目前未來可不可以做研擬我想現在物價也一直調漲助理公費的相關的待遇薪資可不可以我們立法院再編列更多的預算讓我們立法委員能夠更在聘請助理方面能夠有更多的一個待遇來吸收到更好的一個人才"},{"start":8619.969,"end":8637.279,"text":"有沒有這種可能性?可不可以研擬啊?我們當然研擬有沒有是沒有問題啦。是幫我們助理來爭取權益啦。對,今天好像主計總署也有啦。我還是希望說你要去研擬相關可行性的方案啦。同仁也就這個部分表達一下他的看法,我建議這樣。你說請誰表達?主計總署今天也有。好啊,有沒有來?主計總署有沒有來?那個張專委。好,請專委喔。"},{"start":8651.124,"end":8658.755,"text":"你知道我的意思啦就是國會的助理公費助理的待遇有沒有調高的可能性學者現在物價的一個調漲"},{"start":8662.54,"end":8682.939,"text":"因為那個公費助理那個待遇他就是他不是我們主計總處來核定他待遇可不可以調整那如果當然如果待遇他能夠權責機關能夠讓核定他能夠調整的話那當然我們會配合編列預算主計總會配合嗎所以還是要由立法院來研擬可行性啊"},{"start":8683.985,"end":8686.748,"text":"6層是在審議會退休人員或他的眷屬無常使用"},{"start":8703.843,"end":8731.249,"text":"並未支付我們相關的租金或管理費這樣的一個情況未來要如何解決因為這樣做是不是會偏離說我們這個宿舍應該支持現職人員職務需要才去配給他宿舍如果你現在那麼多宿舍還是由這些過去審議會的這些相關的人員繼續在就是他的家屬繼續配置會不會背離我們的初衷"},{"start":8732.686,"end":8756.634,"text":"這個我們定有相關的要點那這個部分我們是不是容請那個中南部辦公室的卿主任來回答跟委員報告這個對眷屬宿舍的保障是在雖然在72年有一個宿舍那個事務管理規則裡面是沒有已經沒有眷屬宿舍可是在74年有做過解釋原來的原來的眷屬是有一個保障所以我們現在有在"},{"start":8758.734,"end":8781.201,"text":"民主議政園區裡面還有36戶的住宿宿舍那現在因為經過時間的遞移的話我們現在現存有24戶那24戶奇怪的我們因為全部有72戶那我們現在也在做一些活化的計畫那我們因為它是公共財產不能夠委託經營所以我們跟國產署也有一個共識可以用出產法的方式來對這個宿舍做一個活化的利用"},{"start":8782.803,"end":8801.849,"text":"對當然要活化利用我們都很贊同我是說現在是不是有這種就無償提供給這些家屬繼續使用收不回來的情形我因為是法定就是立法院行政院在這個部分有一個解釋函他對我們現在現存24戶他有個保障是對所以對他們有一個保障對是是OK好"},{"start":8805.014,"end":8819.715,"text":"但是我想這個就是提升他資產的管理效能你剛有提到就是未來會活化嗎所以相關宿舍管理的辦法是不是可以明確規範相關的條件還有相關租金的標準你們未來會不會訂定"},{"start":8822.045,"end":8822.505,"text":"下一位我們請楊瓊英委員發言"},{"start":8856.964,"end":8861.408,"text":"謝謝主席楊全發言是蜂蜜請蜂蜜"},{"start":8865.751,"end":8887.806,"text":"副秘好曾經擔任過審議員的目前在這一屆裡頭就是我非常尊敬的陳昌明委員他是第10屆那本席是第9屆跟第10屆那上一任的游錫堃院長跟這個蘇貞昌院長那都是第7屆第8屆"},{"start":8889.947,"end":8913.845,"text":"所以我也感謝在上個禮拜我們一起把益政博物館那終於是開幕而且加入了很多的AI的系統讓大家都能夠了解那更了解我們台灣民主的珍貴他的意識保存能夠讓我們的民眾甚至全世界的人了解"},{"start":8915.026,"end":8938.966,"text":"但是在這當中我具體建議因為就像我們的市議員美芳他爸爸是劉秉偉議長那所以因此他當時第10屆的議長就是劉議長那第9屆剛開始進去是屏東的這個簡明井議長所以大家當時知道說政治的中心就在省政府"},{"start":8940.888,"end":8966.202,"text":"從審主席一直到審長用選的那當然這個審議會呢也是政治的中心在這個本席有幸參與到民國78年到87年那這9年當中讓我很大的一個歷練跟學習而且在整個國家的重大建設裡頭比如說橫向的東西塊的部分就當時在第9屆跟第10屆的任內去完成之"},{"start":8967.422,"end":8989.506,"text":"所以我非常的希望當然現在是動審在當時87年動審但是我要給大家一個觀念他是動審他不是廢審他是動審他不是廢審歷史的脈絡是不容磨滅當天我去看了這個議政博物館我們的歷史的這個部分呢審議會的部分我沒看到"},{"start":8991.854,"end":9016.169,"text":"這是一個歷史脈絡比如說我們立法院我們門口的是這個如果落款是王金平院長但現在是韓國瑜院長所以他仍舊是王金平院長仍舊是當時這是一個歷史這是一個非常重要的一個資產本期那一天是一方面高興終於在游錫堃院長的時候我告訴他"},{"start":9017.009,"end":9033.264,"text":"你擔任過第7屆第8屆蘇貞昌院長你怎麼可以把它廢掉呢當時是大家是要廢的我極力反對當時我們是圖書館我說我們必須要將這些疫症全部留下來因為不留下來就沒得了"},{"start":9034.665,"end":9034.785,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":9051.184,"end":9066.417,"text":"他們從開始甚至二代三代都有那麼讓他們能夠安安生能夠在那邊繼續工作而且巫峰是一個非常好的地方所以我講這個歷史因為接下來我們還有一個民主時刻館"},{"start":9067.398,"end":9080.596,"text":"我真的充分建議因為我們劉平偉議長的女兒她也來跟我陳情他說我爸爸在第10屆做了那麼多事情但是他回去的時候看不到台灣審議會"},{"start":9083.311,"end":9083.631,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":9102.285,"end":9119.979,"text":"站第三邊邊我在那邊9年我很愛這個地方這個是一個民主非常重要的一個基地那這個也是台灣最重要的一個議政的一個一個非常重要的一個原地所以我具體建議將台灣審議會的這些歷史必須要去去把它做出來我覺得這個非常重要你同意嗎"},{"start":9130.878,"end":9131.959,"text":"接下來本席要跟您討論的操心館"},{"start":9153.649,"end":9159.552,"text":"因為當時他旁邊都是農業區我們北中南東來的審議員當時第9屆是77個那第10屆加2個新北加2個所以我們這個這個動審的時候呢第10屆是停留在79個審議員"},{"start":9170.297,"end":9195.448,"text":"在這樣的一個情況下朝廷管每個房間都是歷史性非常重要可是本行也覺得這麼好的地方為什麼呢因為你必須我建議我們立法院我們如果要做就要把它做好因為不要只有做一半第一個你的都市計劃你必須要去做調整因為你如果要當旅館"},{"start":9197.737,"end":9217.336,"text":"當旅館你必須要符合我們的旅館的這個條件那你必須要把專案拿出來必須要專案拿出來你OT的時候你BOT的時候你才能夠有人願意啊我怎麼你現在當然是飆不出去嘛對不對因為你的建築條件你是不適合來做這個旅館的嘛"},{"start":9222.421,"end":9250.462,"text":"所以你要從根去把它做好政府有這個政府這個非常重要的這個資產啊像我的房間我在那9年254在後棟的二樓這個非常重要啊我們那個地方是太美了佔地3000坪交通向草屯交流道下來從南這邊那麼從北從我們屋峰交流道下來就在門口這麼好的地方我相信你去把它正本"},{"start":9251.363,"end":9251.383,"text":"議員：審查"},{"start":9275.741,"end":9281.778,"text":"這個部分我們中辦的邱主任其實他擔任過觀光局長就這個部分他有做嚴厲我們是不是請他就一個補充說明"},{"start":9284.049,"end":9312.019,"text":"委員補充報告兩點第一個部分就是一路會館這個部分我們在年底今年年底我們會有一個OT案的簽約他是由台灣農創就是12家農會共同組成一間農創公司來跟我們簽約然後第二件事情就是說接下來我們最重要的部分就是第一個問題你OT你必須要讓他條件符合不要像目前條件不符當然大家不看錢就退出了嘛對不對我不希望那個地方是不活絡的要活絡啊請說"},{"start":9313.539,"end":9331.24,"text":"第二件事情就是我們現在旅館的旅館登記這是一件很重要的事情我們現在也跟除了立法院以外我們也跟這個農商公司我們一起在合作針對這個因為合法的這個合法登記必須要有一些消防一些無障礙那我們現在正在施工當中"},{"start":9331.681,"end":9336.043,"text":"我們這個區塊是美的不得了旁邊也有亞洲大學他的這個美術館世界有名的然後我們三山館在旁邊然後我們的宗教也在旁邊在我們奧斯瓦亞萬佛寺在上面在上面還有這個一貫道的這個總壇在那邊"},{"start":9359.531,"end":9362.172,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於立法院第11屆第12會期司法及法制委員會"},{"start":9378.741,"end":9380.142,"text":"我們下一位請洪孟凱委員發言"},{"start":9413.125,"end":9437.411,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩我們請張副秘書長麻煩張副秘秘書長他血氧的問題他現在回辦公室休息那他昨天好像也是在住院嘛他這幾天身體狀況不好我都有跟他保持聯繫好OK好了解謝謝謝謝主席好"},{"start":9439.151,"end":9451.147,"text":"張副秘書長我想請教剛剛延續這個楊委員的發言所以我們在上一個會期有看到是說立院之前的簽紙計畫還有在進行甚至有媒體報導講說韓院長屬於是北部為主"},{"start":9454.691,"end":9479.018,"text":"從過去到現在一直有討論這所謂的立院簽紙的一個計畫包括說上一屆的時候由錫堃院長是有最後選定6個地點那如果說以北部來講的話比較有可能就是空總土城看守所跟中正紀念堂那到目前為止好像又沒有任何的一個進度或進展那明年的一個相關的計畫也沒有這樣的一個安排我可不可以請教一下目前還有沒有在做這樣的討論"},{"start":9480.575,"end":9480.675,"text":"來 請說明一下"},{"start":9490.168,"end":9512.788,"text":"委員好,今年應委員會的要求,我們總統署已經簽報相關的計畫上來那等朝野協商後呢,那我們就會繼續辦理後面的相關的程序但你簽報的計畫是到哪邊?有委員有收到嗎?因為我看到你們明年的年度計畫也沒有任何的針對這個部分有要討論的方向啊因為程序上阿連可行性評估連計畫的這個預算都沒有"},{"start":9517.183,"end":9536.104,"text":"我實在很難講,如果說現在已經沒有討論,你就可以直接講沒有討論,那不然的話你會讓我們覺得是說,因為國人也是想要了解這一塊,因為畢竟對於整個中華民國國會來講,有人也認為我們的歷史脈絡來說,現在的立法院、院區可能是不服使用嘛。"},{"start":9537.737,"end":9563.164,"text":"來簡單說明一下向委員報告我們有提報像成立的機制然後還有過去選址的情況是提報草野協商所以目前是在等待草野協商的結果那至於協商後我們有在今年13年度有編列709萬的先期規劃的費用那剛剛的詢問之下我們也會辦理保留那保留到明年等到草野協商的結果之後我們會先進行先期規劃的一個辦理"},{"start":9564.384,"end":9570.568,"text":"所以說還是後續等待院長召開政黨團之間的朝野協商是不是?"},{"start":9570.568,"end":9590.441,"text":"是另外一個部分我們在討論這個職場安全職場霸凌的案件裡面其實本席也關注到我要幫我們所有優秀的立院議事人員抱屈跟抱不平因為在今年這一屆裡面特別不同是我們的議事人員被攻擊的狀況是有所聞"},{"start":9591.892,"end":9608.346,"text":"我們的這個執政黨的委員他可以說對於準備資料的議事人員叫罵甚至搶奪立院駐衛警的帽子來襲警那之前也有執政黨的委員他去搶秘書長的手中資料有搶議事人員的麥克風還有"},{"start":9610.854,"end":9633.576,"text":"早上4點去開門的那第一次開門的時候我們請院長說院長你要瞭解這樣的狀況不能說立法委員帶頭執法犯法結果第二次開門他直接不演了講說我沒有破壞門鎖是門鎖太好被開了所以我就進來了那這一些過程裡面"},{"start":9634.642,"end":9659.756,"text":"立法委員對於議事人員以前都說立法委員大家互相攻防沒有問題嘛大家都揹官揹大嘛你要跟我攻防我跟你攻防但是都屬於立委跟立委之間可是在這一屆是立委直接去打或是去挑戰去攻擊議事人員那到目前為止我們立法院這邊有為議事人員站出來有任何的案件幫議事人員討回公道嗎"},{"start":9661.022,"end":9661.282,"text":"好來重點來了"},{"start":9681.094,"end":9698.681,"text":"議事人員他敢 比較抱歉 我覺得我們議事人員都很優秀但是議事人員面對到立法委員的一個攻擊甚至之前我就講 有助衛警很可憐 在門口被搶帽子然後被打 然後被叫囂"},{"start":9700.542,"end":9721.499,"text":"結果那駐衛警他敢去提出申訴針對立法委員嗎那到最後不就變成是他又要被針對性他又要被針對性那到最後不了了之所以今天雖然說有法令的規定但是如果說我們的議事處我們的立法院不能站出來幫這些議事人員主持公道的話你還要請他自己去申訴"},{"start":9722.66,"end":9750.574,"text":"你不就是請鬼找要單嗎副秘書長你可以同意如果說今天議事人員是你的兄弟姐妹你可以同意他們在上班的時候遭受這樣子的攻擊嗎當然是不行啦是那我們怎麼樣幫他們來主持公道我剛講這一些有議事人員被攻擊手上資料秘書長被搶資料那我們有沒有提出任何的"},{"start":9751.294,"end":9752.195,"text":"議事人員的公平正義勒?"},{"start":9764.859,"end":9792.967,"text":"基本上這個國會的場域裡頭我們是充分尊重我們國會之律還有委員的程序權那至於說 副秘書長 不不不請容許我指證你國會的場域是委員跟委員之間委員跟委員之間你說議事工房我今天我進廚房不怕熱我進議事工房裡面我覺得說立法委員跟立法委員之間我們要怎麼議事工房合理的範圍內我們互相"},{"start":9794.841,"end":9811.51,"text":"這個摩高一尺道高一丈但是議事人員不能被波及啊我今天講的是說過去十幾屆來我們這第11屆嘛過去十屆來也有相關衝突但是衝突都僅限於委員跟委員之間那個是議事攻防可是今天是我們看到說當有"},{"start":9812.751,"end":9827.245,"text":"執政黨的委員他認為說他人數不夠然後打不贏的時候他去挑意識人員下手把意識人員手上的資料給搶走把意識人員的這個資料給拿走甚至就破壞門窗那這樣怎麼會算是意識攻防勒"},{"start":9829.915,"end":9845.188,"text":"我補充報告一下當委員所關心的部分其實我們都有在做也希望能夠幫我們的議事人員還有我們所有的同仁立法院的所有的員工都維護到他的一個職場最好的工作環境"},{"start":9845.828,"end":9875.135,"text":"所以比如說我們也去研議了會議室的一個使用規則我們也去研議了相關的這個內規我們正在調整正在修改我問一個比較明確的啦我們現在這每一個委員會的門啊有執政黨委員直接就講啊太好破壞了他不用技巧不用工具他只要簡單的這樣轉一轉扭一扭他就可以他說他沒有破壞殼就打開了"},{"start":9877.119,"end":9901.333,"text":"這個部分我們已經做好了 委員可以看一下旁邊這個門 這個是喇叭鎖 旁邊上下有那個窗這不是 我跟你講A你要不要答B 這個是內部鎖起來但是是不是有一個門沒有辦法內部鎖起來 一定就只有喇叭鎖 那喇叭鎖是不是容易就變成是說 有任何人他只要拿簡單的工具就可以進來"},{"start":9902.765,"end":9908.568,"text":"那這個要不要加強我們從上一次有這個所謂的開鎖盜賊凌晨4點來開鎖然後還洋洋得意那這一次也是兩個禮拜前嘛內政委員會啊也是一樣啊"},{"start":9921.255,"end":9936.894,"text":"本席相對來講都是早一點來啊我6點多我就到交易文化委員會我搜索委員會去簽到我那時候6點多一到的時候我看到內政委員會201裡面已經都是人啊開門啊那不是議事聯盟幫忙開的嘛那就是我們執政黨委員去開鎖嘛"},{"start":9938.12,"end":9965.151,"text":"那我的意思是說今天不管任何人你開鎖就是破壞議事規則那他還會告誡你他還會怪罪你說是因為你們立法院的門窗很好被打開所以我開鎖不是我的問題啊所以我現在強調的是說今天任何人可以這樣輕易的開鎖我們是不是應該要加強我們的立法院的這個門鎖是我們已經有加強了就像剛剛委員所說的我們另外有留一個門那個門不是只有喇叭鎖我們另外安裝了另外一個鎖所以那邊是兩道鎖"},{"start":9966.932,"end":9988.214,"text":"不會被再破壞了?應該不會啦有沒有做過壓力測試?目前沒有啦不是,副秘書長雖然輕鬆啊但是我輕鬆不放鬆啊我要的是什麼?要的是立法院你們是行政人員"},{"start":9989.639,"end":10016.216,"text":"多數少數一回事立委跟立委之間是民意的展現但重點是我們要維持整個立法院議場的正常運作正常運作就請從尊重保護捍衛議事人員的權益以及捍衛我們的開會場域開始做起如果說未來還有這樣的狀況的話很抱歉喔預算不給通過就是預算不合理的地方我們一樣會把它刪除喔"},{"start":10017.771,"end":10018.672,"text":"我們一直朝這個方向在努力 謝謝"},{"start":10040.964,"end":10058.869,"text":"北檢之前曾經發生過一件就是有民眾跑進去然後跑到頂樓去偷換他們的國旗換成民進黨黨旗這些事你們可以去參考一下就是說後來他被起訴所適用的條文那我的意思是說其實我們這裡晚上如果因為這個這個"},{"start":10061.328,"end":10088.57,"text":"立委不是這個機關的所有權人也不是這個機關場所的管理權人立委是借用這個場域在開會的人那如果夜間跑進來說這個沒有違法還是說我根本沒有違法我是立委那這個我在法律上我是完全不認同所以你們可以去參考我說的那個案子其實客觀事實的構成條件是一模一樣那如果說這我以前如果在處理案子的時候遇到這個狀況"},{"start":10090.071,"end":10110.113,"text":"我不是說立法院 我說如果機關有民眾夜間開門爬進去 翻牆爬進去 其實在法律上會構成犯罪那如果說今天以相同事實 立法院只是借用這個場域來開會他不是對這個場域有管理的權限 那可以說我自己晚上"},{"start":10111.155,"end":10139.487,"text":"我自己晚上開門進來這樣子合法嗎那如果公務員知悉有犯罪而不主動提出告發這樣對嗎所以我對這個事我還是蠻有意見但過去我不是要去追究哪一位立委或過去的事情我只是說如果這樣我們大家是不是把這個東西法律上依據為何我們講清楚從我們講清楚那天開始大家都不要犯這個事情就好我不是請你們去追究過去某一位立委某幾位立委他們的"},{"start":10140.407,"end":10144.75,"text":"下一位我們請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員羅廷偉委員接下來我們請葉元之委員發言"},{"start":10178.771,"end":10179.715,"text":"麻煩請複密,議事處處長委員好"},{"start":10185.564,"end":10211.621,"text":"副委員請教一下昨天晚上南韓宣布戒嚴後來民進黨有發一個社群的貼文非常肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情就是說那次尹錫悅為了要守護自由憲政體制然後下面就開始罵立法院前面在罵藍白這是他們的觀點我們當然不認同但後面一句講到藍白我就很好奇他說藍白百般刁難王逸川就職"},{"start":10212.902,"end":10241.057,"text":"我很想請教一下王逸川就職的時候藍白立委有哪一位是在現場嗎這個是這個不知道是立法院哪一個單位辦的就職 王逸川就職典禮人事處辦的人事處喔那不明知道狀況嗎你有在現場嗎我有陪大法官到那邊見那請問一下藍白誰百般刁難王逸川就職阿在現場的應該都是我們民進黨的委員沒有藍白喔那你有感覺到藍白有在刁難嗎"},{"start":10243.591,"end":10247.157,"text":"人事處有覺得藍白有刁難王一川就職嗎?"},{"start":10249.503,"end":10276.094,"text":"報告委員我們都是依照時間跟程序跟法規來辦理沒有有看有還是沒有沒有嗎所以為什麼民進黨要造謠啊我我我都連南韓戒嚴這件事情民進黨都可以發文造謠這個造謠黨也太誇張了那我想另問另外一件事情南韓昨天戒嚴之後啊後來解嚴的原因我相信大家昨天都有看到嗎就是他們的國會議員爬到立呃爬到他們的那個立議場裡面去後來表決好讓這個"},{"start":10277.995,"end":10302.643,"text":"就是解嚴了我萬一你看民進黨現在這麼肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情昨天很多民進黨支持者也在網路上講對啦台灣就要戒嚴啦藍白就在亂啦就是要戒嚴了哇我們現在很擔心會不會民進黨真的宣布戒嚴那現在假設民進黨戒嚴的話因為我們按我看到我們憲法是有一條是說立法院必要時得得議請總統戒嚴"},{"start":10304.304,"end":10313.454,"text":"假設同樣的狀況發生在臺灣可能總統軍隊包圍然後我們立法委員這樣爬進來我不知道說這個議事要怎麼處理這個議事大概會怎麼處理如果發生在我們臺灣的狀況的話"},{"start":10320.741,"end":10339.43,"text":"委員報告我們院會有固定的院會時間但是如果有這種緊急狀況的話當然會透過朝野或是由院長來請大家在針對這種情形來看是不是要你是說如果有緊急狀況大家要先爬進來嗎這個是分事實跟意識程序如果是事實部分的話"},{"start":10340.58,"end":10362.646,"text":"就是本來開會的時候委員從我們的立法院這樣解釋我們這個模擬一下因為昨天民進黨很肯定南韓戒嚴這個事我們是擔心說他們會不會比照辦理假設發生這個狀況依照我們憲法立法院是可以決議以請總統解嚴那假設我們要進行這樣的一個決議程序上是怎樣在意識上處理上是怎樣"},{"start":10363.922,"end":10385.343,"text":"如果說依照戒嚴法如果說總統與情勢緊急時經過行政院陳請他宣告的戒嚴可是他必須在一個月內提交我們立法院的罪認對對就罪認但是我講的是戒嚴的狀況戒嚴是憲法規定的對立法院可以得以移情他說對對對那就是在那麼緊急的狀況那我們要怎麼去進行這個程序"},{"start":10385.885,"end":10403.8,"text":"當然就是召集委員會之後有人提案然後立刻處理那就是還是要先爬進來嘛對不對如果一樣的狀況先集合開會嘛就是先大家先進到議場裡面嘛先組法定人數組法定人數會議是合法然後有人提案就處理這個那可以臨時召開嘛對不對"},{"start":10404.804,"end":10405.004,"text":"還要先溝通喔"},{"start":10420.2,"end":10439.745,"text":"因為這個沒有發生過我看到每一次那個草野協商都是大家就是扯東扯西扯一些程序東西就會讓這個會議沒辦法進行啊那這麼緊急的情況之下還是有可能面臨這個狀況嘛就是扯東扯西然後院長召開草野協商然後最後這個會開不成那開不成就沒有辦法做成解嚴的決議"},{"start":10440.845,"end":10467.035,"text":"是這個意思這種是屬於憲政上重大的事情到時候如果聽取各黨團意見之後院長還是本於他這個立法院他會去做相關的處理所以他可以聽完大家意見之後他可以決定說那我們現在開院會來決定是不是要通過這個解嚴的決議案然後移給總統是這個意思嗎如果是在會期中當然立法院就在運作如果修會的話依照憲法規定他有所謂臨時會的問題"},{"start":10469.216,"end":10491.521,"text":"還有臨時會的問題?那臨時會的問題要怎麼解?臨時會依照憲法的規定,因為四分之一委員有提議,我們就要開臨時會。就是要先開臨時會,然後再進到院會。因為我說是在協會期間,如果總統有宣布戒嚴,送這個案子來,但是依照法律規定來,我們必要就要開追認的會議。那這樣聽起來感覺好像我們沒辦法,像昨天那個男孩動作這麼快,可能就要戒嚴一段時間,聽起來?"},{"start":10494.35,"end":10502.134,"text":"緊急集會然後去通過一個解除戒嚴的道理瞭解我順便再問一個再一個問題請問一下那個現在韓院長有出訪計劃嗎你要問那個是不是要問那個國際處這個我比較不知道國際事務處"},{"start":10514.195,"end":10536.696,"text":"有沒有接到什麼消息是韓院長要去美國參加慶賀團有嗎?這一部分我們還在等這個總統府跟立法院外交部的通知所以都還沒有是不是?目前還沒有那如果假設啦假設我問一下如果說韓院長是當這個慶賀團代表因為過去都是立法院院長嘛不知道這次是不是啦如果是韓院長的話那立法院會有多少人陪同?"},{"start":10538.533,"end":10553.584,"text":"這一部分可能到時候也要由我們這個社會機構外交部跟駐美代表處跟美方溝通有場決定這個但這邊您這邊一定會接到通知嗎對不對然後到時候再派人嗎那目前是都還沒有接到通知"},{"start":10554.104,"end":10554.604,"text":"對 這幾天可能還在等待"},{"start":10581.254,"end":10583.896,"text":"張祺凱委員賴世寶委員蘇清泉委員高金素梅委員吳志堯委員"},{"start":10613.669,"end":10613.689,"text":"張復蜜"},{"start":10632.99,"end":10652.641,"text":"那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平"},{"start":10654.072,"end":10677.26,"text":"過去基於議事攻防那對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會"},{"start":10679.22,"end":10701.852,"text":"但是也要呼籲所有的議案都要遵循民主的原則如果有些排案的委員或者是做出非常多高度爭議性的政治性的法案那當然會有比較高的議事攻防但是大家要一視同仁立法院處理各個黨都要一致您同意吧同意"},{"start":10704.028,"end":10722.253,"text":"那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的"},{"start":10728.695,"end":10746.222,"text":"迫害傷害這些都是發生在這片土地上讓國人非常傷痛苦痛的歷史記憶沒有人可以也沒有人應該重蹈覆轍民主進步黨更不可能"},{"start":10747.402,"end":10767.168,"text":"過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠"},{"start":10770.21,"end":10781.199,"text":"審議立法院預算立法院今年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右"},{"start":10785.402,"end":10807.339,"text":"那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方"},{"start":10809.164,"end":10834.421,"text":"我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們113宪判9之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第8章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的"},{"start":10836.022,"end":10863.687,"text":"所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備"},{"start":10866.088,"end":10890.145,"text":"這應當是我們該做的事情吧是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考"},{"start":10893.407,"end":10910.622,"text":"這個部分也是我們支應預算我們該做的事那我們的法治局有沒有要針對立法院職權行使法修憲之後所謂的讓國會改革真正的成為權責相符的改革方案我們啟動了什麼樣的修法分析研議"},{"start":10917.756,"end":10918.937,"text":"在法制局做了哪些研究分析?怎麼樣來補正修法?"},{"start":10946.198,"end":10951.33,"text":"我們內部的有做相關的針對第9 憲判是第9號有關他"},{"start":10954.687,"end":10976.218,"text":"大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條好 那我們做了哪些的研析你說的這些我當然都了解那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的他針對每一個項 項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面"},{"start":10976.958,"end":10997.265,"text":"所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊結束修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的先辦解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊"},{"start":10997.865,"end":11004.147,"text":"眾嘉賓委員已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法及法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名"},{"start":11021.992,"end":11026.573,"text":"因為在這一個修憲之後的職權行使法有關調查權的行使的法規都沒有健全所以現在使用的這個工具會卡卡的"},{"start":11044.799,"end":11064.32,"text":"你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院又面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委"},{"start":11068.023,"end":11083.813,"text":"當然民進黨認為當天的選舉是無效的組成是不公的調查的範圍是不明確的而且明確的侵犯了其他憲法機關的權利把手伸到司法調查權的案件也把手伸到監察院調查權的案子這個是我們對於這一個國發基金不當投資調查委員會的立場好下一個"},{"start":11090.817,"end":11095.202,"text":"那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院"},{"start":11107.657,"end":11132.154,"text":"那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子"},{"start":11133.666,"end":11159.984,"text":"在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種"},{"start":11164.427,"end":11191.849,"text":"權利嗎?立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決"},{"start":11193.844,"end":11201.371,"text":"現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長紅生漢對於這整個霸凌案的報告"},{"start":11203.339,"end":11228.944,"text":"在下一頁最新的是昨天程旭文會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人"},{"start":11230.324,"end":11257.713,"text":"這該澄清都澄清過了但是還是有在業黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整"},{"start":11260.402,"end":11278.397,"text":"謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合"},{"start":11278.897,"end":11295.172,"text":"我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的五成四但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟譬如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判"},{"start":11296.313,"end":11309.022,"text":"規定的立法院該有的大概都在這個預算裡頭除非你高編很多幅編很多才足以去因應未來可能有10個20個5個10個我不知道數量多少的各式各樣的調查委員會又如同我剛剛說的國發基金不當調查的委員會因為範圍太廣國發基金的投資案超過千案捏提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案"},{"start":11324.093,"end":11341.811,"text":"所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔"},{"start":11342.432,"end":11359.695,"text":"是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎"},{"start":11370.99,"end":11386.438,"text":"是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎"},{"start":11397.756,"end":11400.058,"text":"我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器"},{"start":11424.958,"end":11442.815,"text":"所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權"},{"start":11443.976,"end":11465.631,"text":"民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持"},{"start":11471.536,"end":11490.465,"text":"除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金的案上千個議案你怎麼調查"},{"start":11493.871,"end":11519.04,"text":"你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內"},{"start":11520.18,"end":11542.411,"text":"其實也不用一個月內可能半個月內針對因為審預算就要了提出針對這麼多雨後春筍的調查委員會你們的預算如何指引人力如何調派專業如何支持提上一個報告給司法法制委員會好嗎好謝謝謝謝辛苦了謝謝吳委員那個法治局長還有那個複密麻煩"},{"start":11544.093,"end":11560.205,"text":"麻煩留步一下,就是說因為剛剛那個洪孟凱委員有提到這個部分那我想說我還是因為大家都已經質詢完畢了那我還是仔細說明一下就我國刑法306條對於無故侵入他人住宅以及建築物本來就有法律的規範"},{"start":11561.866,"end":11586.763,"text":"那對於公家機關呢夜間管制的區域民眾是不得侵入的那這個民眾當然也包括立法委員他在非上班時間在立法院管制區管制的區域內他也是不得無故侵入我想說這在法律上面應該是沒有問題所以之前有委員他們用打破窗戶或者是偷開門進入"},{"start":11591.053,"end":11604.873,"text":"不管任何政黨這個部分他在管制的期間內他如果用打破窗戶跟偷開門進入管制區域這個在法律上面叫做犯罪"},{"start":11605.834,"end":11635.029,"text":"只是說他是306條是屬於告訴哪一論之罪那我再補充一下我國刑事訴訟法241條對於非屬偵查機關的公務員也就是你我而且你們是非屬偵查機關的公務員他如果在執行職務的時候發現犯罪他應該予以告發雖然告發跟告訴哪一論之罪他還是有一定的差距但是可以看得出來我國的法制對於公務員在執行職務的時候發現有犯罪的話你本來就會有一個"},{"start":11635.649,"end":11647.509,"text":"告發的義務所以雖然清楚還是屬於告訴乃論那我也想請你們能夠去了解一下這個狀況以及目前我國其實有非常多的判決"},{"start":11649.332,"end":11678.291,"text":"他就是針對民眾在非上班時間他進入管制那公家機關他侵入管制區域那以立法院這邊為例好了立法委員在夜間要進出立法院這個是沒有問題的注意警員會讓他進來那以本棟大本棟樓為例你如果今天是進入到樓梯間也是沒有問題因為樓梯間並沒有管制可是包括院會的議場以及各委員會的開會場所晚上是會鎖門的"},{"start":11679.492,"end":11703.657,"text":"所以如果立法委員在管制期間也就是非開門進行委員會的期間他想要進入到我們的會場裡面他必須透過議事人員立法院的人員同意而且開門讓他進來才可以他不能夠用打破窗戶或偷開門的小偷模式來進入這邊那這樣進來的話他就是違反刑法306條"},{"start":11705.297,"end":11717.857,"text":"這明顯你立法院就是帶頭違法犯罪我想我剛剛就法制部分我分析得很清楚如果我的法律見解有錯誤的話法制局長也可以反駁我的說法法制局長你的想法呢?"},{"start":11719.249,"end":11744.817,"text":"那跟委員報告齁剛剛趙委員講的是完全正確沒有問題可是當這個侵入住宅的這個法醫被侵犯之後誰那個提出告訴的人那個告訴的人應該就是在這個機關就是我們院長那到時候應該是由院長看他是不是要同意當"},{"start":11745.897,"end":11762.42,"text":"這沒問題齁 這個我覺得非常多判決都如此 因為告訴哪一案之罪還是要有告訴權能才能夠提告 所以我剛剛有說過 行訴法241條的告發公務員的職權告發他是在告發案件 並不是在告訴哪一案件 所以"},{"start":11763.822,"end":11791.302,"text":"確實由院長來決定但是是不是能夠麻煩你們能夠公告收支給所有的立委在夜間你用這種非法的方式入侵其實會構成犯罪而且也會有被院長提告的風險我想過去的委員都完全漠視法律的規定動不動打破窗戶進到院會或進到委員會那這個也會造成危險他打破窗戶之前我記得有人就是被割到韌帶"},{"start":11793.055,"end":11816.312,"text":"前兩屆的事情那我希望說我們是不是有機會能夠把基本這種法律概念告訴這些立法委員請他們了解基本的法律概念那如果立法院帶頭做違法的事情我想全國人民應該會覺得這很荒謬吧所以我的意思不是說去追究任何人而且我也覺得過去的事情"},{"start":11817.426,"end":11837.263,"text":"我也不會想要回過頭去追究任何一個人或任何一個政黨那我比較希望就是說我們把這個道理至少能夠讓各位委員知道那讓大家不要說晚上還要躲在茶水間或幹什麼其實這都是這在我以前的觀念裡面這都是蕭曉在做的事情為什麼會是一個國會立委在做的事所以當然啦他們可能"},{"start":11838.004,"end":11853.198,"text":"不懂這個是犯罪那所以說是不是麻煩你們能夠告訴所有的立委這個可能會構成犯罪因為萬一有一天如果韓院長真的覺得那他必須整頓這個風氣他提告了那就告訴男子隊在發生後6個月內都可以到啊"},{"start":11853.899,"end":11870.93,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":11870.93,"end":11873.291,"text":"我希望這麼做一切依法也是不希望立法院的議事人員去承擔這個責任"},{"start":11891.061,"end":11911.703,"text":"否則他晚上要衝進來你攔也不是不攔也不是那不如我們就依法來做我們法治國家嘛我每次都希望大家能夠依法處理但是好像大家都不把我國法治以及意識規則當一回事啊我這邊主持七八個月的感覺好那謝謝非常謝謝複密以及非常謝謝法治局局長"},{"start":11913.331,"end":11930.848,"text":"今天所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢,那詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或書面答覆者請相關機關請述送交個別委員及本會委員謝龍介所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面回覆討論事項報告事項及詢答完畢"},{"start":11938.649,"end":11963.527,"text":"做以下決議令定期繼續審查審查會委員針對本次議程所列討論事項之預算提案請於12月10日今年的12月10日星期二中午12時前送交本會預時不予受領本次會議進行到此結束現在休息謝謝大家現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"157796","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083608a7a2426b299ceaee45dd5fe0ad212426cda09273b5966514694c160275afada5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:55:04 - 12:09:25","影片長度":"00:14:21","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:55:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:09:25+08:00","duration":861,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.472843750000001,"end":11.539718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.87721875,"end":12.552218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.05346875,"end":19.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.26846875,"end":58.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.924718750000004,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.11284375000001,"end":75.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.20534375,"end":72.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.02784375,"end":74.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":77.04846875,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.48721875000001,"end":78.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.65534375,"end":83.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.44409375000001,"end":89.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.19846875,"end":92.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.79284375,"end":93.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.91096875000001,"end":96.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.07534375,"end":102.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":102.22596875,"end":106.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.99721875,"end":108.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.76909375000001,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.54471875,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.93596875,"end":128.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.14596875,"end":128.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.24721875,"end":136.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.61784375000002,"end":132.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.46534375000002,"end":139.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.68846875,"end":147.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.67034375,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.28534375,"end":158.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.62221875,"end":164.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.92096875000001,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.21596875,"end":167.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.27909375000002,"end":169.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.15659375,"end":168.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.57409375,"end":180.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.02409375000002,"end":184.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.45846875,"end":180.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.31409375,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.47721875000002,"end":198.75096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.78471875000002,"end":204.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.37909375,"end":205.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.28159375,"end":212.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.67784375000002,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.04846875,"end":228.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.31596875000002,"end":231.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.60659375,"end":247.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.43534375000002,"end":265.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.72346875,"end":271.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.95971875000004,"end":267.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.80721875,"end":298.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.12346875000003,"end":300.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.96284375000005,"end":306.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.68784375,"end":329.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.86971875,"end":341.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.28159375,"end":412.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.80846875000003,"end":345.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.94534375,"end":420.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.12971875000005,"end":439.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.81034375,"end":443.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.96159375,"end":445.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.06284375,"end":444.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":445.51409375000003,"end":518.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":519.73034375,"end":536.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.9428437500001,"end":558.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":559.9097187500001,"end":560.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.24721875,"end":560.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.1922187499999,"end":562.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":561.8334687500001,"end":611.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.9522187499999,"end":626.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.98409375,"end":632.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.35409375,"end":632.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":633.11346875,"end":640.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.9053437499999,"end":642.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.1922187499999,"end":657.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.3290937500001,"end":667.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.72846875,"end":670.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":671.8247187500001,"end":681.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.19034375,"end":691.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.58534375,"end":692.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.75409375,"end":693.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.44159375,"end":698.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.2722187500001,"end":705.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.1572187500001,"end":706.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":706.5872187500001,"end":722.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.24284375,"end":762.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.6459687500001,"end":772.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":772.06221875,"end":773.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.42909375,"end":779.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.1203437500001,"end":778.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.4197187500001,"end":795.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.5522187500001,"end":796.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.34534375,"end":798.5053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":797.89784375,"end":858.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":806.5547187500001,"end":807.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.26284375,"end":813.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.9453437500001,"end":818.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.05846875,"end":824.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":826.48409375,"end":827.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.0547187500001,"end":847.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.28159375,"end":856.9265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.76596875,"end":859.18784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":12.262,"text":"政序委員發言後我們休息20分鐘吃便當讓大家不要被霸凌好 謝謝主席我是不是再請我們的這個部長 洪部長謝謝立委員"},{"start":19.455,"end":48.822,"text":"部長在你的臉書說上週我一上任以後我就指示同仁我們必須要針對舊安基金的資用進行檢討那你指示同仁針對這個舊安基金進行檢討你自己有沒有先針對舊安基金裡面所編列的這個計畫項目稍微看一下有哪些你是你認為說這些違規的資用項目不適當的資用項目不適當的計畫你覺得哪幾項是很特別很深刻的"},{"start":49.183,"end":49.785,"text":"提出來討論事實上也應該一併要檢討的不是只有媒體講的這一些演唱會"},{"start":55.273,"end":82.762,"text":"或是水電費或是什麼的你有沒有其他印象深刻的跟林委員報告其實其實我要求上週其實就要求同仁檢討我們其實確實現在看到的狀況是就是說他有他必須經過的程序的機制我是問你有沒有其他項目啦有不用講這麼多因為我身體不太舒服你講太久我等一下又要吐了不是因為你講話是我真的真的暈眩想吐"},{"start":83.516,"end":95.584,"text":"好,比方說我們其實看到勞動部下面有一間會議室的設備採購跟裝修那這個都講過了那你還有其他的項目2200萬其實我們陸陸續續真的都是陸陸續續在清查編列的不合時宜不應該編到這個救安基金來的"},{"start":110.43,"end":132.721,"text":"這確實是針對現在在救安基金裡面其實也許我們自己勞動部過去會有一套我們覺得為什麼可以編類進行講法但是從社會的觀感來說可能覺得是不適合的部長你到底有沒有看一下因為你也是曾經是我們委員委員會我就直接因為你都一直講不出來我直接就教於你我覺得這個錢是該花但是是不是應該"},{"start":137.104,"end":141.911,"text":"編載救安基金,絕對可以討論。第一個,辦理國內技能競賽及選手培訓編列,4億8500萬。參加國際技能組織賽事及交流訪問,編列7億3900多萬。"},{"start":154.329,"end":176.761,"text":"你覺得這個該編到這個基金裡面來嗎我跟您有個報告其實確實過去其實這個因為勞動部部本部的預算其實都一直很少這個會是救安基金的對大量收但12億多元我知道業務單位會認為說這符合在救福法裡面所謂促進國民就業是他用這個是"},{"start":178.522,"end":179.165,"text":"國際競賽是國際技能競賽國內技能競賽"},{"start":186.345,"end":207.88,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們在促進國民就業的過程當中有關如何提升國人對於技職的一個價值的一個認可這個部分是一個這競賽要辦到12億喔你們都辦了什麼因為這個部分比較特別在於說我們目前除了在花了12億的競賽到底是辦什麼除了分區的競能競賽跟全國的競賽"},{"start":209.501,"end":216.126,"text":"就是我們這個相關的技術職類我們都不知道說你們的競賽光是一個競賽不是演唱會300多萬國內和國際競賽就花了12億這個真的是有一點誇張那沒關係再把詳細細目通通送上來你們過去十幾億都怎麼花的第二個綠能產業作業安全促進計畫這個是職業安全與衛生那編到我們這個勞發署裡面的救安基金來不是救保"},{"start":238.903,"end":245.705,"text":"不是保險的這個安全上的是是編到這個促進就業的綠能產業作業安全基金的促進計畫花了1140萬這個東西不是應該就業安全為什麼獨厚綠能產業那綠能產業如果是因為高空作業一身危險那為什麼建築業沒有為什麼其他營造業沒有補助就只偏偏補助這個綠能產業"},{"start":266.938,"end":290.989,"text":"各位報告這綠能產業這案的計畫是我們子安署提的因為這個對阿子安署沒有編在你自己的救保基金裡面沒有在你自己的署內的業務然後編到這個安定基金來然後安定基金就算了你怎麼你怎麼只獨厚綠能產業高空墜落建築業為什麼沒有其他的那個容易一生直栽的產業為什麼沒有補助獨厚綠能產業而我們知道綠能產業"},{"start":295.251,"end":297.474,"text":"至少很多在股價上都是相當的表現得很不錯的"},{"start":301.036,"end":327.494,"text":"各位委員報告因為綠能產業從氫能太陽能太陽能等等都是算新的對啦為什麼是綠能那為什麼我們要看你的職業安全與衛生職災發生率最高的那一些產業為什麼沒有補助啊他們有比綠能產業還不危險嗎綠能產業有比我們最常發生的那些職災高的那些產業別還更重要重要到政府需要補助其他的常發生職災的卻沒有拿到補助嗎為什麼"},{"start":330.038,"end":331.34,"text":"這沒有補助款嗎?你確定嗎?你想把詳細的動資的狀況拿來好了"},{"start":345.956,"end":350.838,"text":"那我再就教一部長為了強化私立救福機構的就業服務的專業性勞動部開辦了以及技術式的檢定考試範圍要包括勞動法令招募和職業來輔導等等私立救福機構他設立許可及管理辦法這裡面就要求說你就業的這些服務的專業人力都一定要取得這個"},{"start":366.764,"end":366.824,"text":"林淑芬"},{"start":392.892,"end":415.304,"text":"還好一點現在是沒有證照的沒有專業認證的未來的失業者在輔導現在的失業者因為裡面都是承攬的以前都是用那個承攬以前都是用這個派錢那其實大家講說其實服務有關公共就業服務他其實要強化服務人員的專業的資格那所以要提要"},{"start":421.467,"end":421.707,"text":"請問部長你知不知此這樣的觀點"},{"start":441.386,"end":456.682,"text":"剛剛我聽林委員講我其實是支持這樣的觀點的當然是那因為以前的證照就業服務的專業人員有區分成仲介人力的還有輔導人員就是救福輔導的還有這個就業仲介的那現在整合成一張這個證照一張技術式證以後"},{"start":459.565,"end":483.959,"text":"他也具備兩項資格但是因為法規規定私立就業服務機構的專業人員比例因法定的設置標準所以該技術市政成為外勞仲介的必備的證照依法規規定估算私立就業服務機構的專業人員比例大概20到30%那他們其實是特別是私立的就業服務機構裡面一定要有這個證照那"},{"start":486.46,"end":509.391,"text":"看起來就是我們公立的服務機構裡面徵照的比例只有到63%那事實上扣除掉人資相關的徵照只有59%是具有以及這個徵照的這個資格那我們看就是說以及徵照要考什麼要考勞動法令要考職業輔導和招募就業服務人員的工作任務還包含"},{"start":510.431,"end":533.221,"text":"職涯諮詢就業輔導職業介紹就業市場的趨勢職業培訓和後續的追蹤輔導看起來這個就是要考的以及技術式的證照就是公立就業服務機構就業服務人員的工作的服務內容而這些要做這些服務內容的這些所有公立機構的人都不需要有這種證照這有一點有一點"},{"start":537.023,"end":558.358,"text":"有趣啊 所以我們在講說 勞動部到底是沒有硬性規定你們公立的要取得這個以及技術式的證照但是你們都說我們有在執訓啊 我們會做什麼法令啊 職業倫理 職業生涯的這一些在上課啊但在講法就是說 那這樣的話 那以及技術式的這個證照是雞肋喔 一點不重要嗎"},{"start":562.384,"end":567.227,"text":"那如果他是積勒的話那在私立就業服務機構有證照無證照也沒有保證品質啊那該證照到底是還有價值嗎還是乾脆就廢除了還是說事實上我們應該對證照制度應該蓋更多的肯定所以專業上認證上含金量應該更多就業服務的以及技術是檢定的"},{"start":586.139,"end":609.427,"text":"這個制度的精進 考試的精進 定位的檢討這個勞發署都應該要再檢討 是不是到底是要把它當成直接大家都不用了廢除了還是說更專業那證照上面的規範應該更精進含金量應該更高那如果含金量要更高的話你公立救福機構的這一些人都不需要有證照人家私立服務機構的還有證照勒"},{"start":611.98,"end":640.527,"text":"是跟委員報告這個部分有關公立跟私立救福機構的相關專業人員因為他的業務執掌的不同而對於他的專業裡面的這一些需求的一個內容是不是反映在我們的技術師證我就講了你們公立機構的業務執掌的範圍就跟考以及技術式的證照的內容是一致的是所以反而看起來是你們公立救福機構的這一些服務人員更需要擁有以及證照是"},{"start":642.457,"end":670.302,"text":"對啊那到底是要是要怎麼樣是要讓這個證照更專業那你們內部的公立的這個服務機構的所有的人什麼時候可以達成每一個輔導人力都是100%擁有專業的證照的這個資格的公立委員報告因為這個證照他的這個緣起的時間跟我們公立救福機構存在的時間還是有前後上的差異所以目前是採取鼓勵我們的對啦那你告訴我到底是時程上要不要追上啦"},{"start":671.854,"end":697.368,"text":"就是說未來多久你們希望每一個公立的都要有證照才能在公立機構當專業的服務者那個林委員我來跟業務單位討論一下針對拉高這個以及證照公立就業服務機構證照的比例施力的是100%那我們逐步的來拉高我們來提一個期程好不好"},{"start":698.328,"end":726.443,"text":"沒有證照的未來的失業者輔導現在的失業者的現象要解決就是我們來提一個逐步拉高的期程好不好好那另外的問題就改天再討論因為這個北分署的事情有一個制度面的問題我上次問過何部長洪部長也麻煩你回去一併思考就是說因為那個自殺的無性那個員工然後他們他比"},{"start":727.083,"end":745.439,"text":"下面有五個至六個勞務承攬的人力但是他沒有指揮監督權所以即便有人力他也不能叫他做事那這樣子的狀況你們通通派遣太難聽了所以全部改成勞務承攬就沒有派遣的事結果派遣你還可以指揮監督"},{"start":746.3,"end":746.36,"text":"林淑芬議員"},{"start":763.897,"end":779.065,"text":"其實我們在重新再調查瞭解的過程裡面非常清楚知道現在在人力結構上我們確實覺得它有不健康的地方整個勞發署都是這樣子在這個不健康的狀況之下是很容易出這些問題的這是潛在的原因"},{"start":780.105,"end":795.411,"text":"對你回去研究一下派遣然後勞務承攬但我最後再講一個因為剛才有委員一直提到林淑芬林淑芬林淑芬我在講說你認知的茶水間是設置在部長辦公室裡面對不對我就問這一句就好了"},{"start":796.491,"end":820.294,"text":"整個部長辦公室部長辦公室有幕僚工作室然後設在部長辦公室幕僚工作室進去他不是在我個人的那一間對他不是在你但是我問你幕僚的工作室是不是也是部長辦公室的一環所以我剛才說他在整個裡面你所認知的茶水間其實是在部長辦公室裡面所以並不是大家都會進去用"},{"start":821.175,"end":821.455,"text":"林淑芬議員"},{"start":842.182,"end":842.222,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"16334","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16334","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d323e8eb5774d58be8bd51cfe4d9463a4a82e37f9ba35fd77456385ee1155bf235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:30:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:04:00+08:00","duration":12786,"影片長度":"03:33:06","委員發言時間":"08:30:54 - 12:04:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":735.71346875,"end":736.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1751.8584687500002,"end":1761.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1761.81471875,"end":1800.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1800.74534375,"end":1831.9303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1832.4703437500002,"end":1844.6709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1844.8059687500001,"end":1847.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1847.57346875,"end":1940.0990937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1940.3184687500002,"end":1989.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1989.2559687500002,"end":2006.0128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2006.0297187500003,"end":2027.3765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2030.6334687500002,"end":2075.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2077.32659375,"end":2080.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2082.67596875,"end":2083.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2085.3759687500005,"end":2086.9284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2088.66659375,"end":2099.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2100.5634687500005,"end":2105.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2110.2497187500003,"end":2115.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2124.27284375,"end":2148.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2148.2353437500005,"end":2148.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2148.62346875,"end":2163.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2163.62534375,"end":2180.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2182.25534375,"end":2192.9372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2193.9665937500004,"end":2208.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2208.52971875,"end":2209.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2210.04846875,"end":2214.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2215.2965937500003,"end":2238.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2238.8709687500004,"end":2249.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2250.2615937500004,"end":2257.6865937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2257.72034375,"end":2265.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2266.2928437500004,"end":2269.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2270.37659375,"end":2283.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2283.08346875,"end":2307.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2308.1090937500003,"end":2308.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2309.6278437500005,"end":2312.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2313.62721875,"end":2314.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2315.07846875,"end":2323.8365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2324.2247187500006,"end":2357.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2359.12221875,"end":2366.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2366.7497187500003,"end":2368.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2368.7409687500003,"end":2382.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2382.94971875,"end":2388.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2388.07971875,"end":2416.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2417.52659375,"end":2458.0772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2458.33034375,"end":2460.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2461.51971875,"end":2512.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2518.0340937500005,"end":2541.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2547.88596875,"end":2552.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2553.3534687500005,"end":2560.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2560.55909375,"end":2586.1922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2594.47784375,"end":2596.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2597.2790937500004,"end":2598.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2602.30784375,"end":2604.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2603.0840937500006,"end":2603.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2605.0078437500006,"end":2613.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2614.18784375,"end":2614.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2614.8290937500005,"end":2614.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2615.16659375,"end":2615.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2615.20034375,"end":2616.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2616.01034375,"end":2629.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2629.1053437500004,"end":2634.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2635.16346875,"end":2640.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2639.92221875,"end":2646.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2646.5203437500004,"end":2647.4147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2646.79034375,"end":2647.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2647.75221875,"end":2659.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2659.1259687500005,"end":2662.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2664.45846875,"end":2665.5215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2666.6522187500004,"end":2680.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":2672.23784375,"end":2672.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2680.37159375,"end":2680.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2681.1647187500002,"end":2693.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2694.0234687500006,"end":2727.4190937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2727.5878437500005,"end":2736.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2730.3047187500006,"end":2730.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2736.12659375,"end":2773.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2774.51721875,"end":2790.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2790.54846875,"end":2811.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2811.69284375,"end":2815.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2815.9959687500004,"end":2819.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2819.9615937500002,"end":2824.0115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2825.0915937500004,"end":2833.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2833.9509687500004,"end":2834.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2835.0309687500003,"end":2849.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2846.6072187500004,"end":2846.9784687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2848.6659687500005,"end":2850.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2851.5009687500005,"end":2851.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2851.53471875,"end":2851.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2851.5684687500006,"end":2852.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2852.0409687500005,"end":2852.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2852.31096875,"end":2875.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2874.73784375,"end":2899.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2899.9997187500003,"end":2918.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2918.71409375,"end":2919.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2920.23284375,"end":2948.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2948.7009687500004,"end":2950.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2951.08034375,"end":2951.6709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2951.8565937500007,"end":2977.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2976.83159375,"end":2988.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":2988.4922187500006,"end":2995.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":2994.90471875,"end":3031.8103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3032.31659375,"end":3036.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3036.43409375,"end":3064.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3064.9697187500005,"end":3065.3747187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3065.3747187500003,"end":3068.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3069.1884687500005,"end":3082.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3083.2959687500006,"end":3092.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3090.90659375,"end":3091.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3092.12159375,"end":3103.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3104.5078437500006,"end":3120.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3119.6953437500006,"end":3121.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3122.6315937500003,"end":3129.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3129.97221875,"end":3130.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3130.02284375,"end":3130.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3130.9678437500006,"end":3131.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3131.03534375,"end":3131.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3131.96346875,"end":3132.0309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3132.0309687500003,"end":3139.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3132.9422187500004,"end":3134.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3136.41846875,"end":3136.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3137.78534375,"end":3137.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3137.97096875,"end":3138.0553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3138.0553437500002,"end":3138.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":3138.1903437500005,"end":3138.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3140.9747187500006,"end":3147.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3145.5478437500005,"end":3147.9440937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3147.9440937500003,"end":3173.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3174.4715937500005,"end":3185.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3183.24659375,"end":3216.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3190.48596875,"end":3190.5197187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3190.5197187500007,"end":3190.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3217.0303437500006,"end":3217.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3217.95846875,"end":3220.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3220.60784375,"end":3233.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3233.6690937500007,"end":3239.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3237.43221875,"end":3238.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3239.59221875,"end":3241.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3239.7947187500004,"end":3246.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3247.3378437500005,"end":3247.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3250.39221875,"end":3251.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3251.89409375,"end":3264.5840937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3265.0565937500005,"end":3267.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3267.68909375,"end":3270.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3270.99659375,"end":3299.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3299.85284375,"end":3302.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3302.08034375,"end":3306.6534687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3305.2528437500005,"end":3306.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3307.02471875,"end":3307.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3307.04159375,"end":3309.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3307.5478437500005,"end":3322.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3310.8047187500006,"end":3310.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3322.4147187500002,"end":3333.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3325.7390937500004,"end":3325.9753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3325.9753437500003,"end":3326.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3326.97096875,"end":3327.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3330.8184687500006,"end":3333.6365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3333.6365937500004,"end":3334.2272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3333.8728437500004,"end":3334.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3334.2272187500002,"end":3334.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3334.9697187500005,"end":3339.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3335.00346875,"end":3336.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3337.09596875,"end":3337.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3340.1503437500005,"end":3351.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3342.83346875,"end":3342.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3342.95159375,"end":3344.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3344.03159375,"end":3344.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":3344.28471875,"end":3344.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3348.0984687500004,"end":3348.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":3348.31784375,"end":3349.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3349.65096875,"end":3353.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":3352.4522187500006,"end":3352.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3354.1903437500005,"end":3355.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3356.5865937500002,"end":3367.7072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3370.79534375,"end":3372.7022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3372.7022187500006,"end":3372.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3372.9215937500003,"end":3372.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3372.97221875,"end":3373.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3373.02284375,"end":3373.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3377.79846875,"end":3456.6384687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3456.8240937500004,"end":3476.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3473.36159375,"end":3474.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3475.6903437500005,"end":3552.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3552.9440937500003,"end":3561.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3561.3984687500006,"end":3599.6540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3599.92409375,"end":3603.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3604.0078437500006,"end":3617.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3615.1959687500002,"end":3616.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3617.1365937500004,"end":3638.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3638.3484687500004,"end":3649.7390937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3647.42721875,"end":3702.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3678.71346875,"end":3679.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3701.4103437500007,"end":3707.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3704.32971875,"end":3706.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3707.19846875,"end":3729.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3729.6759687500007,"end":3740.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3738.6872187500003,"end":3750.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3750.3984687500006,"end":3755.1065937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3753.7059687500005,"end":3754.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3755.6972187500005,"end":3760.4728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3759.0215937500006,"end":3764.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3760.5234687500006,"end":3760.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3762.8522187500002,"end":3767.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3767.3240937500004,"end":3814.9959687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3813.2409687500003,"end":3816.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3816.29534375,"end":3846.8897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3846.4003437500005,"end":3848.9315937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3847.88534375,"end":3851.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3852.50909375,"end":3852.9647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3853.4372187500003,"end":3856.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3855.0740937500004,"end":3862.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3863.73096875,"end":3864.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3866.2284687500005,"end":3866.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3866.8359687500006,"end":3869.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3869.26596875,"end":3877.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3877.95659375,"end":3880.1672187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3879.1209687500004,"end":3880.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3881.14596875,"end":3885.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3884.6053437500004,"end":3887.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3887.23784375,"end":3889.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3889.0603437500004,"end":3891.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3891.81096875,"end":3896.3672187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3896.5359687500004,"end":3897.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3897.8522187500002,"end":3915.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3899.0672187500004,"end":3899.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3902.0709687500002,"end":3904.0284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3904.4840937500003,"end":3905.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3914.47409375,"end":3914.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3915.97596875,"end":3917.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3918.5915937500004,"end":3924.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3924.7340937500003,"end":3967.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3925.1728437500005,"end":3926.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3926.87721875,"end":3928.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":3930.38721875,"end":3932.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3967.6640937500006,"end":3968.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":3968.6259687500005,"end":4009.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4009.76721875,"end":4011.8259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4010.5265937500008,"end":4011.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4011.3703437500008,"end":4017.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4018.49159375,"end":4024.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4025.7478437500004,"end":4028.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4028.2284687500005,"end":4040.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4035.1134687500007,"end":4036.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4036.6828437500008,"end":4037.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4038.7922187500008,"end":4039.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4040.07471875,"end":4042.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4042.04909375,"end":4050.3009687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4043.2472187500007,"end":4043.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4046.2340937500003,"end":4046.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4049.3390937500008,"end":4052.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4051.4822187500004,"end":4053.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4052.8828437500006,"end":4052.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4052.89971875,"end":4052.9334687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4054.11471875,"end":4054.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4054.1484687500006,"end":4054.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4054.3847187500005,"end":4054.4015937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4056.1397187500006,"end":4057.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4067.5303437500006,"end":4069.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4071.4453437500006,"end":4072.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4072.6434687500005,"end":4073.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4077.1828437500008,"end":4078.0265937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4078.2628437500007,"end":4120.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4120.3153437500005,"end":4138.017218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4136.12721875,"end":4180.862843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4147.298468749999,"end":4150.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4181.26784375,"end":4181.470343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4181.470343749999,"end":4181.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4182.280343750001,"end":4182.314093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4182.314093749999,"end":4182.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4182.34784375,"end":4182.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4182.98909375,"end":4183.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4183.866593750001,"end":4314.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4184.06909375,"end":4184.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4315.28909375,"end":4333.767218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4334.83034375,"end":4359.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4343.622218750001,"end":4344.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4359.450968749999,"end":4365.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4367.432843750001,"end":4368.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4367.83784375,"end":4368.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4368.25971875,"end":4368.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4368.276593750001,"end":4368.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4368.29346875,"end":4368.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4368.63096875,"end":4372.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4371.3309687500005,"end":4379.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4381.32096875,"end":4383.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4383.61596875,"end":4429.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4429.026593750001,"end":4429.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4429.14471875,"end":4429.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4429.46534375,"end":4436.282843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4436.282843749999,"end":4445.985968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4437.00846875,"end":4439.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4440.872843749999,"end":4441.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4442.77971875,"end":4443.269093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4445.108468750001,"end":4446.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4446.39096875,"end":4453.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4446.4247187500005,"end":4447.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4451.335343750001,"end":4452.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4452.29721875,"end":4454.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4454.45721875,"end":4476.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4476.02346875,"end":4476.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4476.63096875,"end":4476.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4476.647843750001,"end":4476.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4476.749093750001,"end":4476.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4476.76596875,"end":4476.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4476.85034375,"end":4476.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4476.90096875,"end":4477.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4476.968468749999,"end":4479.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4480.1747187500005,"end":4482.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4482.62159375,"end":4482.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4482.75659375,"end":4488.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4487.329718749999,"end":4496.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4496.239718750001,"end":4496.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4496.30721875,"end":4496.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4496.50971875,"end":4527.1209687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":4496.610968749999,"end":4496.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4528.116593750001,"end":4528.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4528.13346875,"end":4535.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4528.18409375,"end":4529.618468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4532.993468750001,"end":4537.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4535.92971875,"end":4543.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4539.135968750001,"end":4539.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4541.54909375,"end":4541.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4543.70909375,"end":4547.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4547.03346875,"end":4548.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4548.67034375,"end":4548.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4548.72096875,"end":4548.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4548.77159375,"end":4549.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4549.19346875,"end":4554.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4549.817843750001,"end":4550.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4553.985968749999,"end":4577.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4564.2459687499995,"end":4565.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4578.1678437499995,"end":4578.927218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4578.218468749999,"end":4578.420968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4579.41659375,"end":4590.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4590.840968750001,"end":4592.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4594.013468749999,"end":4600.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4600.729718750001,"end":4600.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4600.864718750001,"end":4600.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4600.965968750001,"end":4619.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4619.68034375,"end":4636.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4636.52159375,"end":4638.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4638.090968750001,"end":4645.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4645.7353437500005,"end":4672.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4672.38096875,"end":4682.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4682.472218749999,"end":4689.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4689.07034375,"end":4692.175343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4692.175343749999,"end":4692.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4692.327218750001,"end":4693.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4693.10346875,"end":4694.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4695.53346875,"end":4697.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":4698.267218749999,"end":4700.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4713.20159375,"end":4715.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":4717.302218750001,"end":4718.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4721.655968749999,"end":4721.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4721.6728437500005,"end":4722.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4722.887843750001,"end":4740.5897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4741.484093749999,"end":4742.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4743.23909375,"end":4757.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4756.5028437500005,"end":4764.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4765.37909375,"end":4770.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4770.323468750001,"end":4794.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4771.200968749999,"end":4772.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4774.3397187499995,"end":4775.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4794.06659375,"end":4798.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4796.96909375,"end":4810.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4799.2303437499995,"end":4799.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4803.66846875,"end":4806.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4807.46534375,"end":4807.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4811.3465937500005,"end":4815.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4813.0340937500005,"end":4813.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4816.4090937500005,"end":4830.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":4830.66846875,"end":4830.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4830.786593750001,"end":4843.155968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4843.8309687500005,"end":4845.079718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4843.9490937499995,"end":4844.4384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4845.366593750001,"end":4854.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4855.84596875,"end":4858.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4856.385968750001,"end":4857.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4858.495343750001,"end":4862.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4862.30909375,"end":4893.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4874.138468749999,"end":4874.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4894.23659375,"end":4900.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4902.2353437500005,"end":4910.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4910.97659375,"end":4911.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4911.38159375,"end":4912.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4911.5165937500005,"end":4913.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4913.288468750001,"end":4913.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4913.32221875,"end":4913.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4913.91284375,"end":4932.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4933.167218750001,"end":4958.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4958.49659375,"end":4967.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4965.263468749999,"end":4970.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4971.11909375,"end":4971.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":4972.13159375,"end":5013.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4980.889718750001,"end":4981.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":4983.640343749999,"end":4983.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5000.751593749999,"end":5001.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5009.59409375,"end":5010.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5012.850968750001,"end":5017.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5016.24284375,"end":5016.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5016.25971875,"end":5017.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5017.7615937499995,"end":5018.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5018.40284375,"end":5028.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5018.419718749999,"end":5020.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5023.65096875,"end":5024.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5027.194718750001,"end":5034.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5028.81471875,"end":5029.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5033.40471875,"end":5034.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5034.77159375,"end":5034.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5034.839093750001,"end":5034.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5034.85596875,"end":5036.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5035.530968749999,"end":5042.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5037.404093749999,"end":5039.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5043.040343750001,"end":5047.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5046.077843749999,"end":5046.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5047.41096875,"end":5047.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5048.895968750001,"end":5052.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5053.18221875,"end":5060.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5054.8865937499995,"end":5054.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5059.29096875,"end":5067.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5060.92784375,"end":5061.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5064.67409375,"end":5068.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5067.71159375,"end":5103.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5102.45721875,"end":5124.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5111.53596875,"end":5111.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5111.55284375,"end":5111.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5111.97471875,"end":5112.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5125.13721875,"end":5191.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5191.911593750001,"end":5192.434718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5192.569718750001,"end":5197.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5198.45909375,"end":5203.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5203.97721875,"end":5206.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5204.888468749999,"end":5205.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5205.71534375,"end":5209.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5209.79909375,"end":5210.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5210.40659375,"end":5241.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5242.536593750001,"end":5253.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5254.821593750001,"end":5258.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5259.090968750001,"end":5272.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5273.02971875,"end":5273.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5273.82284375,"end":5275.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5274.19409375,"end":5274.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5275.03784375,"end":5275.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5275.42596875,"end":5276.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5276.03346875,"end":5278.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5276.387843750001,"end":5277.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5279.054093750001,"end":5308.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5308.88909375,"end":5314.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5308.99034375,"end":5311.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5313.15846875,"end":5315.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5314.28909375,"end":5314.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5316.01034375,"end":5325.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5318.22096875,"end":5319.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5323.064093749999,"end":5324.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5325.67971875,"end":5329.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5327.21534375,"end":5327.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5329.29096875,"end":5347.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5337.20534375,"end":5337.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5346.35159375,"end":5402.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5377.300343750001,"end":5378.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5400.25034375,"end":5400.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5401.819718750001,"end":5405.802218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5402.477843750001,"end":5403.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5403.220343749999,"end":5403.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5403.30471875,"end":5403.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5405.44784375,"end":5417.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5415.0497187500005,"end":5420.280968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5418.67784375,"end":5419.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5420.63534375,"end":5420.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5421.934718750001,"end":5423.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5426.25471875,"end":5428.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5438.96159375,"end":5441.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5441.44221875,"end":5442.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5447.382218750001,"end":5448.462218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5448.39471875,"end":5512.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5513.36346875,"end":5551.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5551.028468750001,"end":5586.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5586.95534375,"end":5587.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5588.08596875,"end":5620.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5620.51971875,"end":5620.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5621.97096875,"end":5667.280343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5667.364718750001,"end":5667.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5667.39846875,"end":5675.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5677.489718750001,"end":5677.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5677.827218750001,"end":5690.939093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":5684.44221875,"end":5684.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5684.475968750001,"end":5686.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5689.724093750001,"end":5694.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5695.64721875,"end":5695.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5696.69346875,"end":5704.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5703.57846875,"end":5704.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5704.827218750001,"end":5704.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5704.962218750001,"end":5752.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5721.887843750001,"end":5726.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5740.78784375,"end":5741.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5741.22659375,"end":5741.243468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5741.243468750001,"end":5741.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5742.76221875,"end":5743.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5743.0322187500005,"end":5744.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5745.63096875,"end":5746.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5750.67659375,"end":5751.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5752.27971875,"end":5764.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5760.278468750001,"end":5760.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5763.450968749999,"end":5775.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5765.999093750001,"end":5768.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5774.16659375,"end":5781.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5780.899718750001,"end":5783.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5784.089093750001,"end":5792.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5784.39284375,"end":5787.497843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5792.03721875,"end":5823.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5797.403468750001,"end":5797.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5797.42034375,"end":5797.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5821.585343750001,"end":5825.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5824.0322187500005,"end":5824.4540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5825.669093750001,"end":5852.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5853.546593749999,"end":5920.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5921.95784375,"end":5953.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5949.649718750001,"end":5965.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5965.05659375,"end":5979.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5969.241593750001,"end":5971.064093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":5973.7978437500005,"end":6045.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6046.394093750001,"end":6049.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6046.69784375,"end":6046.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6048.8915937500005,"end":6057.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6059.13471875,"end":6078.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6077.44409375,"end":6085.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6086.995343750001,"end":6087.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6088.4803437499995,"end":6091.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6092.327843749999,"end":6096.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6095.83784375,"end":6104.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6104.5790937500005,"end":6110.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6110.704718750001,"end":6118.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6118.349093750001,"end":6119.057843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6120.357218749999,"end":6122.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6122.618468750001,"end":6125.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6134.02596875,"end":6139.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6140.421593749999,"end":6141.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6143.2059687500005,"end":6144.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6144.454718750001,"end":6145.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6145.99034375,"end":6194.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6195.315968750001,"end":6195.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6195.33284375,"end":6207.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6208.157843750001,"end":6215.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6216.81471875,"end":6226.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6225.48846875,"end":6226.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6226.450343750001,"end":6229.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6227.83409375,"end":6244.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6245.384093750001,"end":6246.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6247.22346875,"end":6251.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6251.796593749999,"end":6254.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6254.81721875,"end":6257.061593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6257.31471875,"end":6333.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6334.0790937500005,"end":6385.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6387.06659375,"end":6395.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6397.7822187500005,"end":6398.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6399.554093750001,"end":6435.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6435.43034375,"end":6543.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6544.577843749999,"end":6560.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6560.811593750001,"end":6584.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6585.38159375,"end":6585.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6586.1747187500005,"end":6591.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6590.54534375,"end":6632.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6623.198468750001,"end":6623.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6623.232218749999,"end":6623.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6623.26596875,"end":6623.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6627.788468750001,"end":6628.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6632.530343750001,"end":6635.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6635.247218750001,"end":6675.544718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6675.29159375,"end":6675.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6675.409718750001,"end":6694.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6675.544718749999,"end":6675.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6675.561593750001,"end":6675.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6695.153468750001,"end":6695.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6696.030968749999,"end":6697.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6700.637843750001,"end":6704.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6711.77534375,"end":6713.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6714.407843750001,"end":6715.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6718.47471875,"end":6719.470343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6719.757218750001,"end":6743.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6743.97284375,"end":6753.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6753.62534375,"end":6755.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6754.772843750001,"end":6759.970343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6759.970343750001,"end":6763.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6760.88159375,"end":6803.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6803.96346875,"end":6818.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6815.82659375,"end":6825.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6821.243468750001,"end":6821.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6824.804093750001,"end":6828.4490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6828.16221875,"end":6887.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6887.5790937500005,"end":6890.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6890.12721875,"end":6920.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6920.45159375,"end":6961.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6962.234093750001,"end":6977.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6977.59034375,"end":6987.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6987.968468750001,"end":6989.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6989.74034375,"end":6994.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6992.72721875,"end":7029.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7000.725968750001,"end":7000.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7000.962218750001,"end":7001.232218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7001.232218749999,"end":7001.249093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7029.970343750001,"end":7040.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7040.6522187499995,"end":7057.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7054.70909375,"end":7068.782843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7071.56721875,"end":7075.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7076.91659375,"end":7077.692843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7078.13159375,"end":7080.3084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7080.696593750001,"end":7086.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7084.71284375,"end":7108.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7108.8778437500005,"end":7108.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":7108.97909375,"end":7109.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7109.2997187500005,"end":7119.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7119.036593750001,"end":7129.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7127.811593750001,"end":7166.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7166.708468750001,"end":7175.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7175.44971875,"end":7220.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7220.8603437500005,"end":7224.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7222.83471875,"end":7227.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7227.99846875,"end":7232.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7231.69409375,"end":7237.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7237.9715937500005,"end":7247.337218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7248.045968750001,"end":7328.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7329.2147187499995,"end":7344.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7342.545968750001,"end":7343.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7343.946593750001,"end":7349.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7348.2665937500005,"end":7350.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7349.751593750001,"end":7353.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7354.42596875,"end":7356.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7358.08784375,"end":7367.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7367.807843750001,"end":7371.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7371.80721875,"end":7373.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7373.86596875,"end":7376.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7387.99034375,"end":7389.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7390.774718750001,"end":7391.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7393.812218750001,"end":7393.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7393.964093750001,"end":7394.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7394.30159375,"end":7398.4022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7394.335343750001,"end":7394.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7394.571593750001,"end":7394.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7399.09409375,"end":7411.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7411.497218750001,"end":7411.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7411.581593750001,"end":7412.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7413.134093750001,"end":7417.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7417.31909375,"end":7418.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7418.2303437499995,"end":7418.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7418.280968750001,"end":7418.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7418.31471875,"end":7423.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7424.08596875,"end":7424.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7424.74409375,"end":7425.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7425.62159375,"end":7425.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7425.638468749999,"end":7425.655343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7426.56659375,"end":7427.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7426.85346875,"end":7429.1990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7429.65471875,"end":7430.667218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7429.6884687500005,"end":7430.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7431.510968750001,"end":7435.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7435.03784375,"end":7435.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7436.03346875,"end":7441.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7437.61971875,"end":7438.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7439.88096875,"end":7444.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7442.192843750001,"end":7442.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7443.374093750001,"end":7445.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7446.44534375,"end":7448.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7448.03159375,"end":7458.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7450.14096875,"end":7450.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7455.034718750001,"end":7455.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7455.270968750001,"end":7455.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7459.489718750001,"end":7459.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7459.50659375,"end":7459.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7459.52346875,"end":7460.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7460.02971875,"end":7460.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7460.45159375,"end":7460.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7460.519093750001,"end":7465.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7465.85159375,"end":7469.935343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7469.46284375,"end":7472.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7474.626593750001,"end":7481.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7482.169718749999,"end":7484.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7486.32096875,"end":7492.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7495.872218750001,"end":7507.904093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7496.985968750001,"end":7497.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7497.036593750001,"end":7497.087218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7498.79159375,"end":7498.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7498.8084687499995,"end":7499.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7499.36534375,"end":7499.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7500.4959687499995,"end":7500.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7500.5634687500005,"end":7500.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7500.90096875,"end":7500.934718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7501.60971875,"end":7502.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7502.1834687499995,"end":7502.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7504.56284375,"end":7507.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7508.44409375,"end":7509.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7508.8153437500005,"end":7509.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7509.743468750001,"end":7509.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7509.76034375,"end":7520.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7519.767218750001,"end":7524.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7523.715968750001,"end":7527.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7524.745343750001,"end":7524.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7525.09971875,"end":7525.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7527.58034375,"end":7536.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7528.170968750001,"end":7528.677218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7537.31721875,"end":7538.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7538.144093750001,"end":7538.295968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7538.295968750001,"end":7538.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7538.41409375,"end":7540.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7541.40096875,"end":7547.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7548.35346875,"end":7549.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7549.9228437500005,"end":7558.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7558.61346875,"end":7560.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7559.946593750001,"end":7562.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7562.86596875,"end":7564.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7564.6209687499995,"end":7564.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7564.823468750001,"end":7564.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7564.97534375,"end":7565.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7565.0428437499995,"end":7565.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7565.059718750001,"end":7568.704718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7568.704718750001,"end":7573.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7573.69971875,"end":7576.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7573.817843750001,"end":7574.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7576.534718750001,"end":7579.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7578.137843750001,"end":7586.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7587.132218750001,"end":7595.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7595.78909375,"end":7595.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7595.805968750001,"end":7596.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7596.599093750001,"end":7598.235968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7598.185343749999,"end":7599.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7598.77596875,"end":7598.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7599.231593750001,"end":7600.716593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7599.2822187500005,"end":7599.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7599.450968749999,"end":7609.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7609.84596875,"end":7615.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7614.62159375,"end":7616.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7616.86596875,"end":7616.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7616.950343750001,"end":7617.135968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7617.135968750001,"end":7624.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7619.54909375,"end":7620.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7625.472218750001,"end":7628.2059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7628.526593750001,"end":7660.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7629.454718750001,"end":7629.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7659.57659375,"end":7690.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7662.86721875,"end":7663.069718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7690.440968750001,"end":7693.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7693.495343750001,"end":7703.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7702.69221875,"end":7705.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7704.464093750001,"end":7707.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7706.40471875,"end":7718.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7714.92659375,"end":7717.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7718.2509687500005,"end":7718.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7718.36909375,"end":7719.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7718.53784375,"end":7735.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7732.08846875,"end":7745.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7735.716593749999,"end":7736.526593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7740.981593750001,"end":7741.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7742.145968750001,"end":7742.2303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7745.571593750001,"end":7747.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7746.263468749999,"end":7749.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7748.997218750001,"end":7751.663468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7751.984093750001,"end":7753.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7754.059718750001,"end":7756.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7754.093468750001,"end":7754.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7756.725968750001,"end":7834.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7756.860968750001,"end":7756.8778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7756.8778437500005,"end":7757.147843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7760.87721875,"end":7761.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7762.04159375,"end":7762.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7764.85971875,"end":7764.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7834.99221875,"end":7836.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7837.388468749999,"end":7861.350968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7852.93034375,"end":7853.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7853.03159375,"end":7853.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7853.099093750001,"end":7853.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7853.11596875,"end":7853.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7853.13284375,"end":7853.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7853.16659375,"end":7853.1834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7853.1834687499995,"end":7853.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7861.73909375,"end":7869.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7869.19784375,"end":7870.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7870.85159375,"end":7876.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7876.3865937499995,"end":7876.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7876.403468750001,"end":7876.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7877.804093750001,"end":7877.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7877.82096875,"end":7877.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7877.97284375,"end":7878.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7878.225968750001,"end":7878.276593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7878.276593750001,"end":7878.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7878.411593750001,"end":7880.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7879.94721875,"end":7895.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7896.265343750001,"end":7898.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7898.897843750001,"end":7903.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7901.665343750001,"end":7909.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7909.529093749999,"end":7913.714093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7913.714093750001,"end":7913.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7914.06846875,"end":7916.0428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7916.0428437499995,"end":7918.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7916.68409375,"end":7944.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7944.274718750001,"end":7944.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7945.23659375,"end":7947.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7948.13909375,"end":7949.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7949.8603437500005,"end":7951.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7951.69971875,"end":7953.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7951.919093750001,"end":7952.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7953.53909375,"end":7953.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7953.876593750001,"end":7953.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7953.94409375,"end":7953.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7953.977843750001,"end":7954.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7954.028468750001,"end":7954.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7954.399718750001,"end":7956.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7954.55159375,"end":7956.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7956.036593750001,"end":7956.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7956.10409375,"end":7980.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7956.15471875,"end":7956.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7980.2353437500005,"end":7991.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7991.59221875,"end":7994.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7994.44409375,"end":7994.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7995.929093750001,"end":7996.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":7997.380343750001,"end":8003.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7998.44346875,"end":7998.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7998.49409375,"end":7998.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7998.561593750001,"end":7998.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8004.231593750001,"end":8025.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8019.99284375,"end":8020.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8028.21096875,"end":8028.227843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8028.227843750001,"end":8029.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8030.53971875,"end":8032.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8040.040343750001,"end":8041.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8042.470343750001,"end":8043.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8050.09784375,"end":8055.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8055.599093750001,"end":8056.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8056.1728437500005,"end":8065.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8066.68596875,"end":8089.585343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8089.0790937500005,"end":8096.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8095.8290937500005,"end":8109.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8108.60346875,"end":8122.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8123.50409375,"end":8135.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8135.95784375,"end":8139.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8138.421593750001,"end":8144.6990937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8144.63159375,"end":8190.7509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8144.715968750001,"end":8144.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8190.86909375,"end":8210.984093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8209.566593750002,"end":8232.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8225.09159375,"end":8225.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8233.37721875,"end":8288.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8236.718468750001,"end":8236.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8236.735343750002,"end":8236.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8236.97159375,"end":8237.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8237.039093750001,"end":8237.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8237.42721875,"end":8237.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8290.27971875,"end":8293.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8292.524093750002,"end":8292.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8292.726593750001,"end":8292.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8292.895343750002,"end":8292.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8293.317218750002,"end":8293.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8294.59971875,"end":8313.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8314.782218750002,"end":8324.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8315.11971875,"end":8316.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8316.13221875,"end":8316.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8316.351593750001,"end":8316.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8324.97471875,"end":8336.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8337.32721875,"end":8340.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8340.094718750002,"end":8369.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8367.617843750002,"end":8389.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8389.69034375,"end":8410.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8411.121593750002,"end":8418.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8418.10784375,"end":8420.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8420.234093750001,"end":8420.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8420.250968750002,"end":8420.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8420.95971875,"end":8420.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8420.976593750001,"end":8433.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8432.738468750002,"end":8511.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8433.97034375,"end":8435.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8510.76846875,"end":8514.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8514.41346875,"end":8519.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8520.87659375,"end":8522.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8522.699093750001,"end":8523.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8523.77909375,"end":8524.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8524.032218750002,"end":8537.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8524.487843750001,"end":8524.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8528.63909375,"end":8529.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8529.094718750002,"end":8530.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8530.54596875,"end":8530.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8530.74846875,"end":8530.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8530.765343750001,"end":8530.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8530.782218750002,"end":8531.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8538.629093750002,"end":8542.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8542.122218750003,"end":8546.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8546.20596875,"end":8552.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8551.757843750001,"end":8553.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8556.415343750003,"end":8558.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8558.187218750001,"end":8560.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8567.62034375,"end":8569.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8569.88159375,"end":8570.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8576.024093750002,"end":8577.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8577.25596875,"end":8578.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8579.04471875,"end":8589.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8591.211593750002,"end":8688.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8690.284718750001,"end":8765.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8714.702843750001,"end":8714.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8714.73659375,"end":8714.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8714.753468750001,"end":8714.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8741.669093750003,"end":8743.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8758.30784375,"end":8759.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8765.766593750002,"end":8772.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8772.53346875,"end":8894.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8895.062843750002,"end":8897.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8899.16346875,"end":8899.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8900.09159375,"end":8916.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8917.641593750002,"end":8925.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8926.29846875,"end":8933.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8931.968468750001,"end":8932.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8934.70221875,"end":8939.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8939.66346875,"end":8943.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8943.91596875,"end":8944.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8945.940968750001,"end":8957.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8954.26034375,"end":8954.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8954.378468750001,"end":8954.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8954.85096875,"end":8954.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8954.95221875,"end":8955.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8958.95159375,"end":8961.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8961.78659375,"end":8962.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8962.95096875,"end":9059.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9060.910343750002,"end":9084.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9082.88159375,"end":9091.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9090.32346875,"end":9090.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9091.437218750001,"end":9091.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9091.774718750003,"end":9092.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9092.83784375,"end":9126.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9115.78784375,"end":9115.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9115.973468750002,"end":9116.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9117.964718750001,"end":9118.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9118.032218750002,"end":9118.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9118.454093750002,"end":9118.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9124.52909375,"end":9126.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9127.43159375,"end":9154.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9155.055968750003,"end":9197.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9198.019718750002,"end":9223.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9208.22909375,"end":9208.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9208.296593750001,"end":9208.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9221.57721875,"end":9222.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9223.41659375,"end":9226.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9224.88471875,"end":9224.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9226.15034375,"end":9226.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9226.335968750001,"end":9231.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9226.63971875,"end":9227.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9232.394093750001,"end":9233.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9244.797218750002,"end":9244.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9245.168468750002,"end":9245.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9246.805343750002,"end":9247.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9251.715968750003,"end":9252.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9253.926593750002,"end":9255.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9257.11596875,"end":9260.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9261.55409375,"end":9262.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9263.22471875,"end":9264.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9264.70971875,"end":9266.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9266.65034375,"end":9280.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9280.504718750002,"end":9283.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9283.52534375,"end":9285.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9285.887843750003,"end":9286.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9287.17034375,"end":9299.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9300.113468750002,"end":9305.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9305.969093750002,"end":9325.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9326.15159375,"end":9332.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9333.559718750003,"end":9333.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9334.859093750001,"end":9347.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9348.34221875,"end":9361.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9362.331593750001,"end":9371.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9372.70971875,"end":9386.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9387.62721875,"end":9391.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9393.195968750002,"end":9395.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9395.79471875,"end":9403.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9396.23346875,"end":9396.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9403.793468750002,"end":9405.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9406.98284375,"end":9409.480343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9410.121593750002,"end":9410.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9410.89784375,"end":9418.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9418.407218750002,"end":9423.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9423.80721875,"end":9459.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9434.70846875,"end":9435.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9460.08846875,"end":9463.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9464.35784375,"end":9470.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9470.88846875,"end":9470.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9470.90534375,"end":9470.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9470.93909375,"end":9470.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9471.124718750001,"end":9474.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9474.26346875,"end":9481.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9481.75596875,"end":9489.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9489.02909375,"end":9502.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9489.82221875,"end":9490.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9502.64721875,"end":9504.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9504.55409375,"end":9506.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9507.355343750001,"end":9508.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9509.059718750003,"end":9512.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9512.384093750003,"end":9512.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9513.480968750002,"end":9518.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9518.18909375,"end":9536.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9533.42721875,"end":9535.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9535.300343750001,"end":9556.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9548.125343750002,"end":9553.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9558.030968750001,"end":9590.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9591.46034375,"end":9592.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9592.33784375,"end":9592.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9592.91159375,"end":9592.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9592.945343750001,"end":9602.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9603.711593750002,"end":9615.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9613.566593750002,"end":9619.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9619.472843750002,"end":9632.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9633.22596875,"end":9634.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9635.26784375,"end":9647.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9647.805968750003,"end":9648.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9649.172843750002,"end":9661.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9662.31846875,"end":9670.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9671.12721875,"end":9672.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9672.96659375,"end":9685.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9682.41659375,"end":9683.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9684.77909375,"end":9692.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9692.84534375,"end":9693.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9692.879093750002,"end":9696.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9695.96721875,"end":9696.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9696.33846875,"end":9696.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9696.355343750001,"end":9696.372218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9696.372218750003,"end":9696.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9696.473468750002,"end":9696.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9696.49034375,"end":9696.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9696.55784375,"end":9696.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9696.675968750002,"end":9696.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9696.70971875,"end":9696.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9697.047218750002,"end":9697.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9697.06409375,"end":9697.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9697.08096875,"end":9698.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9699.34221875,"end":9707.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9707.66159375,"end":9743.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9746.00159375,"end":9750.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9750.794093750003,"end":9763.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9762.89346875,"end":9771.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9767.399093750002,"end":9767.550968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9768.968468750001,"end":9774.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9775.70159375,"end":9790.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9777.49034375,"end":9777.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9777.59159375,"end":9779.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":9779.02596875,"end":9779.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9779.481593750003,"end":9779.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9791.04096875,"end":9799.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9792.94784375,"end":9793.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9795.090968750003,"end":9806.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9806.71784375,"end":9815.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9815.25659375,"end":9822.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9816.539093750001,"end":9816.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9821.38221875,"end":9851.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9851.84159375,"end":9857.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9857.66346875,"end":9858.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9859.35096875,"end":9864.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9865.13909375,"end":9872.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9872.969093750002,"end":9875.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9876.293468750002,"end":9880.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9881.44034375,"end":9882.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9883.06034375,"end":9884.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9885.777218750001,"end":9903.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9900.914093750001,"end":9901.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9903.816593750002,"end":9903.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9903.934718750003,"end":9903.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9903.968468750001,"end":9904.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9904.20471875,"end":9908.085968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9908.27159375,"end":9908.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9908.625968750002,"end":9909.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9913.300343750001,"end":9914.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9915.274718750003,"end":9917.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9924.35346875,"end":9926.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9927.25596875,"end":9928.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9931.94721875,"end":9933.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9933.044093750003,"end":9933.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9934.10721875,"end":9945.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9946.13909375,"end":9955.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9956.21346875,"end":9966.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9966.92909375,"end":9975.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9975.34971875,"end":9983.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9983.331593750001,"end":9983.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9983.36534375,"end":9983.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9983.500343750002,"end":9988.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9983.51721875,"end":9983.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9983.669093750003,"end":9983.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9988.64721875,"end":9988.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9989.187218750001,"end":10003.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9999.227843750003,"end":9999.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10003.952843750001,"end":10009.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10009.437218750001,"end":10009.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10009.555343750002,"end":10014.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10014.972218750001,"end":10026.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10016.777843750002,"end":10016.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10016.96346875,"end":10016.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10016.997218750003,"end":10017.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10021.38471875,"end":10021.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10027.071593750003,"end":10027.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10027.83096875,"end":10057.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10058.121593750002,"end":10069.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10069.79909375,"end":10070.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10070.38971875,"end":10083.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10083.315968750001,"end":10088.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10088.749718750001,"end":10153.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10089.37409375,"end":10089.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10154.157218750002,"end":10201.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10201.57596875,"end":10202.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10202.16659375,"end":10210.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10211.80221875,"end":10218.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10217.52284375,"end":10219.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10219.19346875,"end":10221.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10220.374718750001,"end":10231.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10224.340343750002,"end":10224.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10229.672843750002,"end":10244.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10232.71034375,"end":10233.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10234.85346875,"end":10234.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10234.988468750002,"end":10235.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10235.039093750001,"end":10235.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10235.089718750001,"end":10235.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10243.274093750002,"end":10243.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10244.20221875,"end":10265.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10248.690968750001,"end":10249.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10266.02159375,"end":10289.511593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10290.76034375,"end":10300.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10299.687218750001,"end":10301.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10301.290343750003,"end":10326.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10304.41221875,"end":10304.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10306.15034375,"end":10306.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10316.34284375,"end":10316.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10326.50159375,"end":10340.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10340.44034375,"end":10401.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10404.54846875,"end":10420.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10420.49534375,"end":10439.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10438.079093750002,"end":10443.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10443.31034375,"end":10443.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10444.019093750001,"end":10445.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10444.96409375,"end":10444.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10446.75284375,"end":10448.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10448.980343750001,"end":10449.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10450.043468750002,"end":10452.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10453.249718750001,"end":10470.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10470.83346875,"end":10471.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10471.27221875,"end":10475.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10476.58784375,"end":10481.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10480.08096875,"end":10480.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10481.27909375,"end":10481.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10481.684093750002,"end":10482.055343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10482.055343750002,"end":10485.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10483.77659375,"end":10484.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10484.70471875,"end":10489.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10486.054718750001,"end":10486.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10489.969718750002,"end":10492.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10491.758468750002,"end":10496.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10493.98596875,"end":10494.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10495.184093750002,"end":10495.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10495.94346875,"end":10495.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10496.21346875,"end":10499.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10500.68534375,"end":10502.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10503.520343750002,"end":10506.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10512.953468750002,"end":10514.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10515.45096875,"end":10516.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10519.551593750002,"end":10520.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10521.120968750001,"end":10534.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10535.39721875,"end":10553.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10554.465968750003,"end":10560.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10557.01409375,"end":10557.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10560.405968750001,"end":10573.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10574.63159375,"end":10576.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10575.981593750003,"end":10583.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10583.11971875,"end":10616.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10617.797843750002,"end":10618.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10619.65409375,"end":10621.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10623.02909375,"end":10632.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10629.72846875,"end":10633.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10634.149718750003,"end":10634.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10634.993468750003,"end":10640.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10640.629718750002,"end":10652.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10651.952843750001,"end":10684.707218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10667.629718750002,"end":10668.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10685.51721875,"end":10687.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10687.91346875,"end":10688.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10689.21284375,"end":10696.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10695.06846875,"end":10700.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10697.633468750002,"end":10698.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10698.88221875,"end":10708.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10706.290343750003,"end":10707.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10708.855343750001,"end":10720.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10720.347218750001,"end":10722.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10722.895343750002,"end":10740.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10740.833468750003,"end":10750.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10751.093468750001,"end":10756.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10756.72971875,"end":10762.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10760.273468750001,"end":10805.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10806.88221875,"end":10819.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10820.16284375,"end":10822.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10822.99784375,"end":10834.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10835.012843750003,"end":10839.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10840.83471875,"end":10855.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10854.63846875,"end":10881.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10855.617218750001,"end":10857.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10881.70596875,"end":10882.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10883.140343750001,"end":10884.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10885.148468750001,"end":10890.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10890.599093750003,"end":10899.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10899.25596875,"end":10905.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10904.26784375,"end":10931.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10912.992218750001,"end":10915.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10919.97846875,"end":10922.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10932.887843750003,"end":10940.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10932.921593750001,"end":10933.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10933.02284375,"end":10933.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10935.722843750002,"end":10936.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10939.75596875,"end":10955.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10953.72846875,"end":10955.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10956.27659375,"end":10957.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10957.390343750001,"end":10966.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10963.718468750001,"end":10964.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10965.23721875,"end":10965.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10965.76034375,"end":10966.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10966.722218750001,"end":10967.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10967.02596875,"end":10967.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10967.07659375,"end":10969.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10967.903468750003,"end":10971.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10971.649718750003,"end":10982.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10982.04471875,"end":10982.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10982.53409375,"end":10984.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10985.234093750001,"end":10996.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10996.574093750001,"end":11030.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11030.89784375,"end":11031.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11030.914718750002,"end":11038.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11038.94721875,"end":11039.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11039.01471875,"end":11039.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11039.48721875,"end":11042.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11042.305343750002,"end":11046.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11046.28784375,"end":11047.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11047.941593750002,"end":11050.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11050.65846875,"end":11083.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11083.952843750001,"end":11090.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11090.90534375,"end":11091.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11091.73221875,"end":11092.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11091.73221875,"end":11092.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11092.15409375,"end":11092.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11095.57971875,"end":11106.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11112.10034375,"end":11113.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11114.125343750002,"end":11117.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11120.571593750003,"end":11121.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11121.70221875,"end":11188.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11122.714718750001,"end":11122.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11188.93221875,"end":11194.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11194.703468750002,"end":11205.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11206.02659375,"end":11206.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11208.051593750002,"end":11212.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11212.000343750002,"end":11220.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11213.08034375,"end":11213.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11220.606593750003,"end":11223.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11223.930968750003,"end":11224.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11224.133468750002,"end":11228.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11228.774093750002,"end":11229.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11230.22534375,"end":11232.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11233.00971875,"end":11234.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11234.79846875,"end":11318.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11318.61659375,"end":11326.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11326.581593750001,"end":11334.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11335.137218750002,"end":11337.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11337.85409375,"end":11344.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11346.308468750001,"end":11346.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11346.34221875,"end":11346.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11346.359093750001,"end":11346.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11346.96659375,"end":11347.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11347.33784375,"end":11379.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11379.41721875,"end":11384.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11384.90159375,"end":11394.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11395.43159375,"end":11399.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11400.156593750002,"end":11405.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11404.34159375,"end":11421.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11421.65534375,"end":11438.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11439.070343750001,"end":11445.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11446.090343750002,"end":11451.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11446.15784375,"end":11446.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11450.29221875,"end":11474.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11474.929718750001,"end":11477.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11478.726593750001,"end":11485.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11486.65784375,"end":11496.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11497.79534375,"end":11500.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11500.27596875,"end":11500.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11500.309718750003,"end":11500.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11500.343468750001,"end":11500.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11500.360343750002,"end":11500.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11500.44471875,"end":11512.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11509.000343750002,"end":11518.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11519.31096875,"end":11527.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11527.782218750002,"end":11543.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11544.40409375,"end":11544.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11544.977843750003,"end":11573.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11572.63596875,"end":11583.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11583.95909375,"end":11610.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11610.520343750002,"end":11617.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11617.675343750001,"end":11643.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11644.590968750003,"end":11645.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11645.55284375,"end":11690.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11688.95534375,"end":11689.461593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11690.254718750002,"end":11696.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11697.055343750002,"end":11697.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11697.07221875,"end":11720.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":11720.781593750002,"end":11726.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11730.974093750003,"end":11736.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11736.762218750002,"end":11738.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11742.668468750002,"end":11744.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11743.242218750001,"end":11798.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11799.351593750001,"end":11813.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11813.492843750002,"end":11820.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11819.93909375,"end":11821.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11821.10346875,"end":11821.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11823.17909375,"end":11823.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11823.364718750003,"end":11831.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11824.731593750003,"end":11824.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11824.765343750001,"end":11825.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11828.79846875,"end":11829.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11830.469093750002,"end":11830.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11832.308468750001,"end":11836.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11836.51034375,"end":11837.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11837.15159375,"end":11838.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11838.535343750002,"end":11873.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11873.972843750002,"end":11925.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11926.285343750002,"end":11933.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11933.659718750001,"end":11934.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11934.80721875,"end":11935.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11935.49909375,"end":11935.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11935.53284375,"end":11935.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11935.634093750003,"end":11935.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11935.75221875,"end":11943.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11941.87784375,"end":11942.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11944.527218750001,"end":11947.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11947.14284375,"end":11948.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11949.31971875,"end":11951.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11949.40409375,"end":11949.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11949.555968750003,"end":11949.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11952.509093750003,"end":11961.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11958.80346875,"end":11973.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11973.315968750001,"end":11973.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11973.41721875,"end":11973.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11973.45096875,"end":11974.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11973.484718750002,"end":11973.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11973.92346875,"end":11973.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11976.606593750003,"end":11976.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11976.62346875,"end":11988.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11988.13221875,"end":11989.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11989.97159375,"end":11997.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11990.44409375,"end":11990.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11995.28721875,"end":11995.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11995.33784375,"end":11995.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11995.962218750003,"end":11996.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11997.784718750001,"end":11998.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11998.83096875,"end":11999.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12000.164093750001,"end":12002.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12003.606593750003,"end":12006.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12006.644093750001,"end":12009.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12009.25971875,"end":12069.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12010.91346875,"end":12011.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12017.089718750001,"end":12017.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12069.739718750003,"end":12076.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12074.802218750003,"end":12075.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12075.93284375,"end":12087.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12077.92409375,"end":12081.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12081.02909375,"end":12081.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12087.137843750003,"end":12087.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12087.222218750001,"end":12087.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12087.57659375,"end":12088.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12088.42034375,"end":12088.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12089.179718750001,"end":12091.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12092.132843750001,"end":12096.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12097.11096875,"end":12097.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12098.91659375,"end":12104.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12105.12659375,"end":12132.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12133.949093750001,"end":12138.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12139.770968750003,"end":12140.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12141.087218750003,"end":12160.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12160.29096875,"end":12160.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12160.425968750002,"end":12161.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12161.03346875,"end":12161.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12162.09659375,"end":12227.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12228.90471875,"end":12232.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12232.785968750002,"end":12238.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12239.434718750003,"end":12239.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12239.97471875,"end":12256.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12257.69346875,"end":12257.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12257.71034375,"end":12269.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12269.269718750002,"end":12272.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12270.062843750002,"end":12270.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12271.73346875,"end":12275.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12274.230968750002,"end":12276.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12276.036593750003,"end":12276.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12276.914093750001,"end":12278.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12276.930968750003,"end":12276.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12276.964718750001,"end":12277.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12278.348468750002,"end":12294.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12294.46409375,"end":12354.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12355.602218750002,"end":12363.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12363.870968750001,"end":12378.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12373.219718750002,"end":12398.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12398.802218750003,"end":12412.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12413.16284375,"end":12427.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12425.380343750003,"end":12426.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12428.92409375,"end":12429.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12430.18971875,"end":12430.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12431.20221875,"end":12432.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12432.78846875,"end":12433.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12433.598468750002,"end":12435.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12435.269093750001,"end":12435.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12435.30284375,"end":12435.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12435.37034375,"end":12435.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12435.45471875,"end":12435.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12436.112843750001,"end":12438.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12439.53846875,"end":12468.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12470.976593750001,"end":12491.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12494.500343750002,"end":12498.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12503.96721875,"end":12523.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12523.812218750001,"end":12576.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12577.457843750002,"end":12578.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12581.11971875,"end":12582.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12582.317843750003,"end":12583.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12583.22909375,"end":12588.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12593.691593750002,"end":12594.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12596.003468750001,"end":12597.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12598.754093750002,"end":12624.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12626.14221875,"end":12675.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12746.34284375,"end":12751.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12761.985968750003,"end":12762.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12762.94784375,"end":12763.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12763.504718750002,"end":12763.555343750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":735.981,"end":736.001,"text":"議案。"},{"start":1751.994,"end":1760.3,"text":"報告委員會我們出席委員14人以足法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1761.857,"end":1781.256,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事錄時間中華民國113年11月25日上午9時至12時27分中華民國113年11月28日上午9時至11時32分第2本院群閑楼1.1會議室出席委員曾培育委員等15人立席委員鄭正前委員等15人"},{"start":1782.177,"end":1799.294,"text":"會席人員11月25日中央研究院院長廖峻芝率同有關人員行政院主席總署公務員審處檢驗室長李培元行政院主席總署金運算處課長劉雅緋11月28日國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承文率同有關人員行政法人國家災害防救科技中心董事長蘇政剛"},{"start":1800.835,"end":1829.927,"text":"行政法人國家太宗中心董事長吳承文行政院主席總署基金預算處專門委員黃厚吉行政院主席總署公務預算處科長顏玉平主席范召集委員允11月25日萬召集委員美玲11月28日11月25日報告事項宣讀上次會議是否決定是否確定討論事項一、今天審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案二、今天審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":1830.347,"end":1846.819,"text":"有關中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位預算案進行審查。決議一、114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案審查完畢。審查結果如下。稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第四項。"},{"start":1847.68,"end":1870.932,"text":"中央研究院500萬元招列第四款財產收入中央研究院493萬8千元招列第七款其他收入中央研究院13892萬4千元招列最初部分第一款總統府主管第五項中央研究院原額113億5487萬2千元除第五目非營業特種基金第一階科學研究基金第12億5874萬5千元佔招列"},{"start":1875.274,"end":1896.242,"text":"四、所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整外,其餘均照列。本項通過決議60項。二、114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位算案審查完略。審查結果如下。一、業務計劃應依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整。二、基金來源用途及輿處。"},{"start":1897.222,"end":1912.833,"text":"一、基金來源原例4.3億2,575.3萬元,增列財產收入向下權利金收入200萬元,且已均照列改列為4.3億2,775.3萬元二、基金用途4.3億2,491.3萬元照列三、本期剩餘原例84萬元,增列200萬元改列為284萬元三、截小公務列出四、補辦預算固定資產建設改良擴充9,239.2萬元照列五、通貨決議八項"},{"start":1926.963,"end":1955.124,"text":"三、對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分,請相關機關簽署以書面答覆。四、在不遺想文藝前提下,授權於事人援引114年度中央政府總預算案,審查報告與黨團協商範例整理。五、114年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案及科學研究基金附屬單位預算案全部審查而然均。十一、二十八月討論事項,依審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及基礎委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":1955.544,"end":1979.881,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院主管行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作業基金附屬單位預算案四、審查114年度行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案五、審查114年度行政法人國家泰國中心預算案謹進行詢答"},{"start":1980.982,"end":2005.249,"text":"本議程採綜合詢答由委員洪牧凱等事務員提出質詢。軍政國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承煥及相關人員及答覆說明。決議一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員所提出書面質詢或相關資料錄入記錄幣概念單公報。三、對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未解答附部分請相關機關介述與書面答覆。四、114年度中央政府總預算案有關國家科學及技術委員會及所屬單位"},{"start":2006.629,"end":2027.058,"text":"案行政院國家科學技術發展基金附屬單位預算案國家科學及技術委員會主管科學園區管理局作為基金附屬單位預算案行政法人國家災害防救科技中心預算案行政法人國家太空中心預算案相關提案請於12月5日下午2時前提出令定期繼續審查通過臨時提案以上修理完畢"},{"start":2030.657,"end":2049.019,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":2049.099,"end":2052.98,"text":"公務預算解凍案三案,第一案及第二案僅進行詢答。首先我來介紹在場委員都沒有。我們來先介紹我們與會的官員。"},{"start":2077.389,"end":2105.701,"text":"首先我們先介紹國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌院長黃永泰副院長于沛景副院長那因為其餘的我們已經有來過我們就不一一介紹那接下來我再介紹行政院主計總處公務預算處黃曉娟專門委員以及我們行政院主計總處基金預算處科長王沛山科長"},{"start":2110.265,"end":2113.03,"text":"好,那我們現在就來請蕭院長進行報告時間8分鐘"},{"start":2124.655,"end":2147.866,"text":"召委、各位委員,承蒙各位委員對本院各項施政者預算的支持,各項業務得以順利推展,在此有種感謝。本院114年適逢建院百年特規劃故宮100PLUS宴慶系列活動,期待透過該活動前面回顧故宮的典藏歷史展現研究科技文創能量,"},{"start":2148.726,"end":2173.439,"text":"也期待各界人士一齊重現發見故宮迎接下一個百年的盛景以下檢樣報告一、公務預算部分114年度施政目標有重點一、專業服務快整合行銷專業研究多邊策展策劃會心不遠、益氣、慈氣、同氣等各項展覽另外辦理歲時集慶宴慶"},{"start":2174.48,"end":2193.097,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":2194.262,"end":2211.429,"text":"多元教育推廣、管技串聯及專業行銷活動,配合展覽或捷徑辦理分零分眾多元型態的一個展覽。另外,在暑假期間,別院推出暑假親子共學體驗遊程,南部持續辦理親子藝術業及故宮亞洲藝術節等活動。"},{"start":2215.496,"end":2237.623,"text":"另外的話就是配合教育部辦理國立社交機構及文化機構的一個共同行銷活動另外規劃參加2025臺北國際書展旅展等大型展會活動開放多元擴大民眾參與召開策展執行會青年"},{"start":2238.943,"end":2265.096,"text":"二、兒童及青年事務推動執行會推動校園大使並辦理校際活動二、充實數位內容辦理open data專期以利於文物查詢二、持續更新故宮線上學校學習網站貼西學校私生啟用的機會三、以Google Arts & Culture合作每年推出線上展覽"},{"start":2266.417,"end":2288.64,"text":"三、在友善共融推動文化平權的部分,以營造友善空間,最主要是建構新僱傭計劃,現在北部延期的整建計劃持續在推動。那行政大樓的話在10月抱進,年底會啟用。那圖勝運線大樓現在預計年底也會完工,那明年也會啟用。"},{"start":2290.101,"end":2307.025,"text":"南部的新國保管各項計畫也持續在進行。友善平淺服務,持續辦理故宮遊藝室百萬鞋子遊故宮計畫。持續推動身心障礙教育,推動低度參與觀眾平淺教育活動,勇氣發展接軌國際的部分。"},{"start":2314.186,"end":2315.927,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2331.953,"end":2357.242,"text":"在南院就會有江戶福氏會的國際介展另外辦理馬來西亞主題亞洲藝術節的活動在國外的展覽部分包括9月份的捷克國家博物館的故宮牌瓶及其故事展覽另外11月份的華國凱布朗利博物館的一個龍展"},{"start":2359.318,"end":2381.564,"text":"第二、持續辦理故宮國寶出遊區,加強與地方管理所的連結。第三、優化文物保存導入RFID,目前進行庫房改箱違規的前置作業。四、導入智慧化監控系統,強化文物安全。"},{"start":2384.966,"end":2389.889,"text":"稅入、稅出預算編列部分稅入的部分的話114年稅入編列5億5949萬較113年增列1億3000多萬主要是以後編進結婚觀眾人潮指定回流稅出部分編列321.2萬"},{"start":2403.32,"end":2415.634,"text":"相較114年正列6億8千多萬,主要是因為新故宮計劃主要的工項都在進行,跟宴慶100的一個又推廣,那有關預算執行的部分請參列。"},{"start":2417.631,"end":2424.574,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院總預算案有關國立故宮博物院"},{"start":2437.359,"end":2439.38,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":2461.584,"end":2488.767,"text":"本院的那個預算凍結部分的話有三項那第一項的話是綜合規劃以推廣行銷凍結300萬那故宮會妥善應用預算提升博物館的相關資源及並立性那第二項的話是文物安全管理修復凍結100萬那故宮會秉持守護文化自然責任精進文物典藏管理環境"},{"start":2489.548,"end":2492.189,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":2518.149,"end":2541.58,"text":"所以本院的各項所注意算盡依照施政目標及右膝要何時編列執行那未來故宮面對下一個一百年將持續強化國際交流合作後持我國的文化外交讓故宮成為國際上典藏華山文物的專業博物館那也成為一個全民的博物館謝謝大家的指正"},{"start":2547.93,"end":2559.254,"text":"好,謝謝蕭院長口頭報告。那我們現在開始進行綜合詢答。今天每位出席委員質詢6分鐘,必要時延長2分鐘。列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘,發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分。委員如有臨時提案,請於上午10點30分前提出,並於本會委員吳佩奕質詢結束後,進行解凍案及臨時提案處理。"},{"start":2575.74,"end":2586.103,"text":"處理臨時提案時,若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場,原例不予處理。現在我們先請發言登記第一位,洪孟楷委員質詢。主席謝謝,麻煩請蕭院長。蕭院長請。"},{"start":2602.716,"end":2607.764,"text":"委員長,故宮最近最熱鬧的時候是不是11月30號馬英九基金會邀請陸生團參訪故宮的時候?"},{"start":2614.172,"end":2618.115,"text":"不過不管怎麼樣,這還是一個文化交流嘛。院長支持這樣的文化交流嗎?"},{"start":2635.502,"end":2660.921,"text":"基本上來講的話故宮支持文化交流各項……所有樣的文化文化是全體人類的文化是不分任何政治意識形態的故宮張開雙手歡迎各界的人就是說不管政黨不管國籍只要他可以入境到台灣的話基本上來講都經過一個合法的程序所以我們都以客為尊對那所以院長會認為說這是一種統戰嗎"},{"start":2666.711,"end":2680.07,"text":"政治的解讀的話當然就是故宮的沒有辦法理解的啦那故宮基本上來講對任何的觀眾他們用一種非常合理的一個正常的參觀方式我們都歡迎"},{"start":2681.271,"end":2708.609,"text":"其實有接待這次參訪團的101董事長賈永傑他也講他們來玩我們來玩大家都開心不用那麼嚴肅那一樣的道理對岸的民眾或是對岸的朋友十三億人如果說都能夠來台灣都能夠來參訪故宮看一下故宮的文物以前是課本裡面看到的現在可以看到實體的一個部分清明上河圖翠玉白菜我想這都是非常好的一個事情"},{"start":2709.75,"end":2726.63,"text":"只要兩岸開放交流更多人來看其實某種程度上這反而是一種文化的提升所以院長我說實在話我們覺得說是不是應該要更鼓勵或說更有自信能夠讓更多世界的觀光客都來故宮來參訪"},{"start":2728.492,"end":2751.786,"text":"這是故宮努力的目標,怎麼樣提升所有的參觀不管是國人或是國際人士的話都是故宮努力的目標是,所以院長我當然你可能比較少時間有辦法說這個參與我們這個政府這些的一個決策啦但如果說有機會我還是要呼籲跟建議啊也要適時的跟上面來反映啦尤其是我們的賴政府就是說兩岸"},{"start":2752.366,"end":2755.328,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":2775.072,"end":2790.289,"text":"對於兩岸開放的話當然故宮也是樂觀其成那我們希望說在兩岸一個有共識有和平的一個基礎下有更多的大陸那邊的民眾可以來台灣參觀這個故宮非常的期待"},{"start":2790.589,"end":2818.717,"text":"好,那另外一點我們現在故宮的狀況明年是百年願慶那明年百年願慶的時候我有看到我們的一個預算的部分有增加說我們要去捷克法國辦理相關的特展那也有文物基金會派員新增出去考察包括日本以及義大利的一個考察那院長是不是也能夠跟國人來說明或是來解釋一下除了我們派員出去"},{"start":2820.057,"end":2825.566,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":2833.973,"end":2835.494,"text":"現在這些宣傳業務都到"},{"start":2851.673,"end":2877.483,"text":"觀光署到觀光署但觀光署的話他們宣傳的重點目前看來的話都是國家風景區或是國家公園就比較少提到故宮這個部分的話我打算在過年以後一月份以後再找相關的外交部觀光署這些單位請他們來協助看能不能就是用一種整合的方式然後做一個整體的一個是院長你講的就是本席接下來想問的"},{"start":2878.183,"end":2899.77,"text":"獎項獎項獎"},{"start":2901.084,"end":2917.492,"text":"除了一些警官除了101等等我們也希望是大家能夠知道說故宮文物在這邊然後更多人來參觀但你看喔其實從最近一次疫情前2019年外國籍的旅客一年佔300萬人"},{"start":2920.313,"end":2942.649,"text":"但是到2023年疫情過後外國籍的旅客一年只不到百萬只有72萬多人到今年的統計目前為止也將近是70萬人左右所以我們現在外國籍的旅客不到疫情前的三分之一那我們也希望是說那你能不能夠有更多的讓外國籍的旅客知道是說來台灣除了"},{"start":2943.47,"end":2944.611,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":2962.708,"end":2987.246,"text":"國立故宮在台灣,文物在台灣那你剛剛講是說要到明年1月,明年1月的時候總預算大家都審過啦明年的計畫大家都已經報完啦明年的計畫大家都已經確認了,這樣來得及嗎?根文報告,其實我們那個提升國際的能量的這個計畫這個國際戰略計畫其實我們在今年有做了那...多少費用?上個月"},{"start":2988.707,"end":3011.423,"text":"有時候我不能明確去編一個預算說我這個東西叫做多少費用不是院長你不能明確編一個預算那就代表說你有沒有執行真的想要做這個核心的業務這一個部分另外是說即便我剛開宗明義強調故宮的本預算其實放眼到我們中華民國政府總預算來講其實是杯水車薪啦相對少啊"},{"start":3011.883,"end":3014.725,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3032.418,"end":3052.095,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":3059.682,"end":3062.063,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3083.339,"end":3102.776,"text":"那到目前為止我現在講的是說到2013年2023年2024年國外觀光客都只有七十幾萬不到疫情前的三分之一我們今年本來預估大概一百二十七萬大概少了五十萬因為原來疫情的話就是邊境入客會開放可是沒有開放所以的確是少了"},{"start":3104.377,"end":3122.159,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":3122.677,"end":3125.959,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3141.041,"end":3168.273,"text":"你沒有辦法編列在故宮本預算裡面但你至少你要怎麼樣想方設法拉資源整合拉觀光署拉外交部拉其他部會來告訴說你們要宣傳你們要有任何的這個文化甚至我們故宮不一定有錢但是我們可以有什麼樣的圖資什麼樣的協助讓你能夠更推廣能不能在預算審查我們逐條進入到實質審查的時候你有這樣的一個明確的一個計畫"},{"start":3169.313,"end":3172.898,"text":"讓我們能夠了解那我們這樣預算審查的時候更能夠支持"},{"start":3174.985,"end":3200.452,"text":"跟委員報告這個沒有問題因為我們本來就在做而且我們那個計畫概念概構想的話那個基本上來講是有的我希望之後在主條之前可以提出可以提供本席跟我們教文委員會的委員這個計畫的參考好不好那另外最後一分鐘我有看到是說故宮現在有跟屈臣氏這個商店做什麼跨界合作推出系列的品牌商品"},{"start":3201.793,"end":3220.092,"text":"本席其實認為是說如果說能夠讓文物結合商品本席這個方向本席是認同不過我現在想請教明年百年願慶我們有沒有什麼比較特別的紀念商品是一定要讓國人或是外國人士來台灣一定非買不可有沒有能不能先拿出來大家比方一下"},{"start":3220.572,"end":3248.2,"text":"議員長議員長"},{"start":3250.884,"end":3270.363,"text":"這不好笑啦我知道不好笑啦我要的是本席真的是站在一個期待跟鼓勵的立場對於行政部會來講有專業我們是支持但是我們真的希望是說百年我們能夠人生有幾個100年我們這次100年之後下一個100年我們都不在了"},{"start":3271.109,"end":3298.772,"text":"所以這個百年其實我覺得是非常重要的時刻那我們能夠怎麼樣不管是借用民間的創意借用什麼樣的一個力量我們去想一個東西是明年百年每一個來故宮一定非買不可這個東西是很特別的我們如果說沒有買沒有來來台灣沒有來故宮白來了來故宮沒有買這樣的一個商品沒有買這樣的紀念品白來了要有這樣的一個雄心壯志所以說拜託"},{"start":3300.069,"end":3321.525,"text":"委員長除了剛剛恭喜在游跳我知道啦紀念酒紀念幣這個都是一般這個都老掉牙嘛那怎麼樣來講那有沒有有什麼我覺得這個東西才是重點這東西也才是真的能夠讓我們從文物故宮精神以及人民的日常生活裡面來結合不是說要你做一個"},{"start":3322.566,"end":3326.869,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":3340.202,"end":3366.995,"text":"我們要來看到這樣的一個部分,好不好?這才是我們真的能夠支持我們編出來的預算,是不是能夠把錢花在刀口上的時辰。謝謝洪孟海委員,那個院長會後再跟洪孟海委員做詳細的報告。謝謝。那現在因為我們現場的委員已經達三人,請問一下上次會議的議事錄有無錯誤或者是遺漏之處?好,沒有,那麼議事錄確定。接下來我們有請柯智恩委員質詢。"},{"start":3371.111,"end":3373.232,"text":"院長請院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們今天要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如90歲的一個風華那這個部分其實很多的數據可以呈現出來你看"},{"start":3393.399,"end":3396.664,"text":"在10年前我們的故宮說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是呢我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名"},{"start":3408.9,"end":3413.846,"text":"這是何等的一個光榮啊這是台灣之光啊可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候呢你看才達到155萬2000多"},{"start":3425.3,"end":3427.422,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3451.641,"end":3471.157,"text":"不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的所有到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南苑大概是90...將近90萬"},{"start":3473.459,"end":3476.18,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":3500.691,"end":3501.751,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位"},{"start":3517.017,"end":3520.66,"text":"所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說路客等等之類"},{"start":3534.392,"end":3560.553,"text":"但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品你要來增加你的亮點做好行銷你反而是因為遊客變少這一塊你要琢磨可是你看看你的權利金收入真的是不好然後重點是你委託合作的承銷商數是近五年來最低院長我一直說你們要很努力可是你們承銷商的數額竟然是最低而且你們的所謂的網路商城的銷售"},{"start":3561.374,"end":3580.93,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3581.15,"end":3587.895,"text":"這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換的沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發"},{"start":3604.362,"end":3625.561,"text":"學生在設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發能不能有經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦院長這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了"},{"start":3629.465,"end":3631.126,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":3647.875,"end":3648.095,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":3670.299,"end":3679.966,"text":"改裝再製,它是可以創造的好不好給一些大家比較可以買得上手的而不是一個這麼樣層次太高的好了剩下時間我還是要問一下有關於新故宮計劃那這個部分來說的話你看新故宮計劃你原本107到112總積費是101"},{"start":3688.473,"end":3705.077,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":3705.077,"end":3729.599,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3729.719,"end":3754.66,"text":"八委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我下次問你嘛我下次問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢"},{"start":3755.865,"end":3758.248,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":3779.209,"end":3780.79,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":3805.689,"end":3815.954,"text":"會把故宮的整個場景有沒有辦法會全部遮蓋住我覺得這才是重點吧你不要每次給我空拍圖看不到所以然我要的是每個人在這個地方我們有動態模擬圖好 給我一個我要做這個模題因為我要看得出來會不會因為這樣子的部分然後來遮住我們故宮的全景因為已經有太多學者專家認為不要每次都拿羅浮宮那個跟台灣是不能比因為我們台灣不管緯度氣候等等還有包括節能減碳等等"},{"start":3833.283,"end":3835.446,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":3852.517,"end":3854.7,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":3866.963,"end":3886.071,"text":"沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我要強調一下你說給你故宮會員專屬的沒有沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊"},{"start":3887.575,"end":3889.077,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院"},{"start":3904.377,"end":3904.998,"text":"委員我要澄清一下"},{"start":3918.669,"end":3942.494,"text":"面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間好不好完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用好不好以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算嘛"},{"start":3945.495,"end":3946.636,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":3968.712,"end":3970.453,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度"},{"start":3990.299,"end":3996.02,"text":"所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討喔好不好寫這個部分理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎"},{"start":4018.49,"end":4018.57,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":4025.799,"end":4029,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4056.409,"end":4056.569,"text":"蕭薇薇議員"},{"start":4077.579,"end":4077.72,"text":"趙慧照"},{"start":4094.099,"end":4096.761,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":4120.602,"end":4136.937,"text":"委員報告文創商品或紀念品其實故宮是有規劃那剛講的就是說傳統的比如說紀念品紀念酒啦、郵票啦或是什麼金幣啦、金條啦這個都有那這個都是因為跟外面包括玩具公仔都是跟外面合作的"},{"start":4138.718,"end":4138.818,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":4153.815,"end":4180.589,"text":"我們今天大家還是一直很關心不管是這個故宮南北院參訪人數整個營收我想都不是太理想我覺得我們都值得來討論一下我們看到其實故宮在11月11號的時候你們發布了一個新聞說故宮北院已經突破去年總參觀人次這個155萬2190人但本席看到這個所謂的突破好像就是突破多了6個人是不是"},{"start":4182.452,"end":4192.821,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度"},{"start":4211.596,"end":4229.138,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":4229.298,"end":4239.427,"text":"好,那我們再來看根據統計我們的這個人數逐步恢復的看起來只有北院南院反而是反其道而行原本我們看到111年參訪的人數達到1039,895人可是112年參訪的人數反而下降到954,296人那113年截至10月只剩下839,552人"},{"start":4255.462,"end":4257.925,"text":"南院不爭反將南部縣區本國及外國籍參訪比例本國籍104萬3714人次"},{"start":4273.5,"end":4276.884,"text":"外國籍只有5548人,可以說99%多都是本國籍,可是我們看到112年本國籍參訪人次驟降,112年降到941,065人,113年截至10月底只剩下78萬人左右。"},{"start":4293.622,"end":4296.764,"text":"外國籍參觀者略增長,從原本的5548、112、113年分別來到13000、15000。為什麼本國民眾不願意去南院,外國略增?能不能就這兩件事情,院長來回答一下?"},{"start":4315.659,"end":4332.715,"text":"在疫情期間的話其實南院的參觀人數的話反而是比北院多了一點111年的話超過百萬那因為疫情期間的話有那個補助專案那另外的話北部的話大家比較不喜歡來旅遊"},{"start":4337.039,"end":4358.744,"text":"疫情之後北院其實是回流,然後南院其實有點劣降。以今年來講的話,大概會比今年劣深,南院有劣深,北院當然是增加幅度比較大,但是都不如預期,這是真的,這是我們要努力的一個方向。"},{"start":4359.805,"end":4379.597,"text":"為什麼我們自己的民眾是不願意去南院?為什麼南院的這個參訪人次這麼不好還要一直下降?有去了解過原因嗎?因為一樣是已經疫情後了,我們都在努力中,那何以北院的人次會上升而南院還要下降?這是為什麼?"},{"start":4381.828,"end":4400.32,"text":"這個我們要再理解看看因為所以你都不知道原因所以院長如果你不知道原因怎麼去努力讓南院的人士往上呢所以我想你說你還要再去了解看看這個我覺得非常的錯愕啦那一樣北院一樣南院一樣疫情之後了所以我想這個希望你一個禮拜之內給我一個原因好不好"},{"start":4400.66,"end":4414.684,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮文藝術發展基金附屬"},{"start":4430.168,"end":4451.539,"text":"好 這個部分的話當然那時候是做一個南北院的區域分好 院長我知道你想要做一個南北院區域北院給北區的學校 南院給南區的學校但是院長這是很無聊的一件事你難不成還怕說你開放的時候還搶掉了這個北院的聲音嗎不會不會 對嘛所以我覺得啦"},{"start":4454.52,"end":4474.271,"text":"不過我覺得你看我們南院現在其實參訪人數是不好的那事實上南院其實有很多值得看的地方南院的同仁也很努力而南院占地70公頃比本院還大現在在蓋這個國保館其實是非常適合學生前往參觀的所以你這樣的開放其實覺得不好是不是院長可以做一個調整"},{"start":4475.291,"end":4500.868,"text":"我們明年就調整。怎麼調整?明年的話北部的話我們會納入。因為它是一個有合作單位有委辦單位的。很好。也就是明年一月以後我們全國的這個學生都也可以按照他們的意願申請北院或者南院都可以去參訪了對嗎?對。那這個辦法要趕快讓教育部下去給我們所有的學校知道好嗎?"},{"start":4502.248,"end":4513.951,"text":"最後我想一樣我們看到北院雖然參訪的人數逐漸在恢復可是並沒有反映在整個故宮的營收上根據故宮自己的統計112年故宮實體跟網路的商業這個營收加起來是3億1069萬可是我們看到113年截至10月的營收只有2億5878萬所以參訪人數變多為什麼營收下降"},{"start":4529.752,"end":4547.039,"text":"公文報告,因為全年度還沒有結算,您的意思是說後面這兩個月你可以再增加一億是這樣嗎?門票跟基金的話都會增加。所以我們在今年你有把握我們可以超過去年是這樣嗎?會超過去年。"},{"start":4548.66,"end":4551.201,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":4578.188,"end":4583.633,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":4600.762,"end":4604.205,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4620.339,"end":4637.896,"text":"當然是有很大的影響,像110年、111年疫情期間,可是因為他的繳雇的概算是之前就編列的,所以我們還是照那個額度去繳雇,所以中間的話其實我們不能講虧空啦,就是我們那個基金虧空喔,這個詞用的不太對吧?"},{"start":4639.277,"end":4642.438,"text":"院長,我們可能要再嚴謹一點,要不然你說了這個話,我想同仁大家捏一把冷汗。我想最後一點點時間,我提醒院長,我想疫情沖撞之後,現在兩岸的關係這麼樣的不好,"},{"start":4660.383,"end":4682.22,"text":"北院、南院同仁都很努力,那怎麼樣讓我們不管在營收、在人事上面可以往上來提升我們要先找到原因,像剛剛院長講的,原因不詳這件事情不能夠再發生嗎?不是原因不詳,因為原因有非常多元,就是說沒有辦法就是說單純一個原因,當然就是說所謂的邊境開放這當然是一個主要的原因"},{"start":4682.66,"end":4684.842,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案"},{"start":4713.54,"end":4740.122,"text":"謝謝主席,有請故宮蕭中煌院長有請蕭院長各位院長,我們要關心同仁最近各部會紛紛爆出霸凌案件,野火燎原同屬教育委員會的教育部、文化部也都傳出有霸凌案件正在進行調查想先請教一下院長,您這邊有沒有接獲相關霸凌案件的投訴"},{"start":4743.294,"end":4764.745,"text":"故宮其實故宮其實也有故宮的話就是說依照那個人事室給我的資料的話109年有一件然後這個申訴研究人申訴對不起院長我問的是在這個事件爆發之後是不是有新的接獲的霸凌案件的投訴有或沒有"},{"start":4765.776,"end":4793.522,"text":"現在的話就今年以今年來講的話就8月份有一個投訴案那這個所以霸凌案傳出來以後你們都沒有接獲新的嗎因為我們的理解日前行政院一聲令下要求相關部會甚至回溯期有的到10年有關霸凌的案件都可以再提出那假設故宮院內有人反映霸凌的情形你理論上應該已經開始要接獲要積極處理了所以你們目前都沒有接獲新的案件"},{"start":4794.442,"end":4815.559,"text":"目前調查中的有一件有沒有新接獲的案件在勞動部霸凌事件之後你現在都不回答那你之後如果有案件完全沒有嗎所以故宮這個那您剛剛說還有一個調查的案件什麼時候會出爐現在在處理中九月份也是在這個事件之前"},{"start":4816.482,"end":4842.619,"text":"我想故宮的情況比較特殊啦過去有一些特殊文化那也有一些這個同仁的一些狀況我想院長應該要小心的針對這個情況來做內部的了解好不好沒有不代表真的沒有目前行政院傳出來每一個部會都在做內部的了解是故宮真的特別和平嗎?您有這樣的信心嗎?您有這樣的信心之後就是你們這邊都是零件嗎?"},{"start":4843.88,"end":4854.028,"text":"你可以這樣保證嗎?基本上來講申訴有就是那個霸凌他有他的定義然後申訴有他的管道以目前來講正式提出的管道是沒有"},{"start":4857.763,"end":4881.232,"text":"但是對同人的關懷這個事情的話我們都持續在講我想針對內部針對這個霸凌案件不管是過去調查中的還是未來你們現在是零件的這件事情希望你們有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了解好不好謝謝我想今天是114年度預算的答詢我想我們想要了解的是這個收購文物的部分"},{"start":4881.832,"end":4900.544,"text":"依據故宮文物藝術發展基金的第五條故宮收購文物的基金來源就是故宮益發基金請教院長您知道最近一次收購文物是在哪一年嗎故宮最近收購文物的話是在幾年前在疫情之前"},{"start":4903.036,"end":4913.071,"text":"110年今年還剩下不到一個月就結束了據院長瞭解故宮今年有沒有構藏任何一件文物故宮沒有沒有我們沒有編列預算"},{"start":4914.597,"end":4931.057,"text":"此外,故宮連續四年沒有收購任何文物,但過去有沒有收購?有!先前故宮後來每年從藝發基金拿出一筆錢,等著要買文物。"},{"start":4933.294,"end":4934.755,"text":"獲得國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案獲得國立故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":4958.567,"end":4959.168,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":4971.152,"end":4995.808,"text":"因為前面編列的疫情期間的話因為疫情期間編列的文物的話是因為要經過國際的一個委員來審閱那這個部分的話現在疫情已經結束了疫情結束之後就是以故宮目前來講就是我就任來講的話我認為去整理去盤點過去的故宮的文物要整理要修復的或是技長的入場"},{"start":4997.469,"end":5001.652,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":5021.347,"end":5039.241,"text":"一次不是只可以做一件事你不只往前看往現在看也可以往未來看嘛我跟委員說一下就是說天天來兜售我怒的不是兜售不是你們要主動構場啊不是你預算都沒有編你現在跟我講有人來兜售主動構場的話我們看了綜藝的這個預算基本上買不起"},{"start":5048.959,"end":5069.367,"text":"那你如果看到買得起的你沒有預算可以買啊因為這個部分的話如果真的有好的物件我們可以用基金因為基金本來就有這樣的功能所以不用先編是不是到時候想花多少就直接挪多少嗎也不是這個樣子但是基金它就有一個彈性的調整功能抱歉院長這是一個態度"},{"start":5070.287,"end":5089.683,"text":"根據你們的作業要點其實你們本來就應該要預先編列這個預算而且確實你們需要經過很多的審查而且這個審查在故宮裡面特別特別不一樣你們是實務審查我當然理解這是小心為上但是其實這就全球的這個趨勢來講也非常特別"},{"start":5092.725,"end":5106.354,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二"},{"start":5120.883,"end":5144.165,"text":"我們才重啟預算編列,也是後年。好,沒關係,謝謝院長願意負責。為什麼?因為其實院內的人力雖然大家都很辛苦,但是我想大家就是要各自負責不同的工作,這才是一個團隊。你不能說我現在處理手上的事了,其他的事情我們過去有做了我現在就不做了。"},{"start":5144.725,"end":5150.791,"text":"其實有很多構藏的機制我也希望院長可以考慮除了編列預算這是重中之重還是要提前來討論之外其實還有更多彈性的構藏的方法主動出擊你說你都買不起那看你是從哪些管道去買現在巴塞爾藝術展的年報都已經講了"},{"start":5165.385,"end":5192.194,"text":"現在有非常多的博物館、美術館都開始用線上購藏的方式你可以事先去看預展你可以了解這個產品之後用線上購買的方式來作業所以我想因應數位時代的來臨請問院長能不能請故宮研議去讓展品購藏的相關辦法更加的主動、積極、更有彈性這是我們這一屆的行政院的標語嘛是不是"},{"start":5192.534,"end":5192.674,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":5209.827,"end":5210.067,"text":"目前故宮編列了18億"},{"start":5226.622,"end":5252.934,"text":"展品出現的機率其實很低,圖書文獻類到113年度的展示率是0.094%那你們有編列了將近20億,北區重建計畫編列9.1億請教院長,你們擴建完成以後預計可以增加多少的展示空間?或者我們就數據化的來了解,各類文物的展示率有沒有辦法提高到10%?"},{"start":5255.067,"end":5272.321,"text":"跟委員報告沒有辦法,為什麼沒有辦法?因為基本上來講北院擴建跟南院擴建的話都增加200平方米但是所謂的博物館的展示力並不是所有的同學都可以上運動場去跑百米"},{"start":5273.126,"end":5292.178,"text":"所以在文物裡面有一些是研究用的對不起院長我打斷您現在國際的趨勢不是要跑步就一定要上場跑百米也可以在室內運動場練習給您了解一下我想故宮您作為一個國際型的博物館"},{"start":5292.938,"end":5295.4,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":5308.919,"end":5311.522,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5325.64,"end":5347.449,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5347.489,"end":5372.929,"text":"我想我希望您可以放寬心胸瞭解世界上的趨勢往前看現在已經有非常多的地方做開放庫房庫房可以用玻璃圍牆可以用各種方式讓產品非常好的存放在那個地方但是又可以讓民眾看到這個我想當然您又提到open data又提到數位的方式我現在手上拿的這個vision pro"},{"start":5375.15,"end":5388.127,"text":"現在新的設備台灣好不容易可以預購了12月17號要出現了戴上它你可以看到虛擬的文物我想故宮在這裡院長接下來這是一個關鍵期"},{"start":5389.989,"end":5391.35,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":5407.144,"end":5416.291,"text":"五月請我們準備去荷蘭路特丹的曼斯博物館,它就是一個完整的開放庫房。另外館長今天下午會在庫房演講。接下來我們有請陳培韻委員。"},{"start":5439.515,"end":5440.277,"text":"謝謝主席 有請院長"},{"start":5447.872,"end":5447.892,"text":"陳委員長"},{"start":5477.312,"end":5479.473,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5502.302,"end":5528.197,"text":"我們再把單月單月列出來我覺得對於南院我們還是很有期待院長你自己怎麼看我可不可以給你多一些時間來回答關於南院這一題目前規劃的想像而南院當然就是大家對南院很大的期待可是南院的確是在交通區域上它有比較不方便但是以我自己的認定的話突破100萬的話是南院的一個"},{"start":5529.138,"end":5552.09,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5552.15,"end":5579.711,"text":"好院長你剛講到兩個關鍵第一個說你你認為可能是因為交通不方便再來第二個你說你們2025的100的plus你們會把北院的重要文物帶到南院去但是交通不方便這個議題我認為應該也不會只有故宮南院有這個困境那我認為後續不管是接駁車啊交通車或者是什麼樣方便的公共運輸我認為故宮應該有機會跟地方政府做相對的討論因為確實我們希望有更多人去南院如果"},{"start":5580.531,"end":5606.56,"text":"議長你真的認為交通不便是其中的因素我希望院長在這個部分應該可以更加積極好嗎好再來我們來看一下院長這是我手上故宮自己在賣的文創商品這個是翠玉白菜的筆作我們來看一下這個設計公司看起來應該是臺灣可是呢他的製造廠商這個標題是這樣他叫做國立故宮博物院合作開發商品那設計廠商是臺灣設計可是是中國製造下一頁"},{"start":5609.701,"end":5621.015,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5621.994,"end":5622.274,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5652.174,"end":5666.514,"text":"但是我不懂,如果有這麼大的,光是製造的部分,成本兩億多,為什麼不能在台灣製造?你們是找不到廠商,還是因為你們這個文創商品的標案流程,你們其實是沒有限制廠商可以去中國下單嗎?"},{"start":5667.732,"end":5694.131,"text":"公務員報告在商言商因為臺灣的代理商臺灣的設計臺灣的製作然後就是製作在大陸基本上來講賺錢的還是臺灣的臺灣的廠商臺灣的代理商但是如果在臺灣的話我知道在臺灣做的話基本上來講的話他的成本所以那我可以問一下這個這樣的合作開發商品他的正常流程應該是什麼"},{"start":5697.044,"end":5721.445,"text":"報告委員補充說明說商品是廠商提案申請完以後經過故宮審查才可以在故宮上架所以他不是用採購的提議好那以翠玉白菜來說我要去做這個比作然後我跟故宮申請然後你們同意了我的企劃書你們滿意然後呢我去哪裡下單製造你們也不管我你們其實就只有收售權費嘛然後跟在你們的文創商店賣的額外的營業額對不對我們會特別鼓勵廠商用在台灣的"},{"start":5722.526,"end":5725.168,"text":"獲得獎勵的方式在台灣製造我認為我當然知道如果廠商他在商言商我可以理解可是故宮難道沒有高的標準的角度來看這個事情嗎我真的不懂像這個筆記本"},{"start":5746.367,"end":5759.662,"text":"這個筆記本要價列百八欸院長可是他是made in china那我自己做出版的我看一下他紙質也沒有特別好對這個筆記本當然是個案個案可是如果是出版的話比如說以新台印刷的話台中的話他就自己有一個品牌"},{"start":5760.523,"end":5761.704,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5784.239,"end":5784.96,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5799.381,"end":5822.001,"text":"故宮在設計相關合作開發商品接受廠商做標案跟提企劃的時候如果有一個這個更高的標準我認為其實也是照顧台灣廠商因為這幾年中國的製造品質其實大家也慢慢發現很多的問題所以我想我還是要拜託故宮在這件事情上當有廠商來提案他當然必須要將本求利我可以理解可是如果有一些些的可能性我認為我們還是要繼續鼓勵我們會盡量鼓勵台灣的廠商"},{"start":5826.304,"end":5852.425,"text":"這個部分我們會再往下追蹤接下來我要問一下關於100plus的部分院長我不知道你記不記得去年的9月2024年的9月我就口頭跟您提過你說要回去研究到了10月我在委員會質詢給您建議你說已經開了三次會議到了去年11月我正式用預算提案這個是我從去年就開始一直在追的題目可是我們往下看看到今年的1月故宮給我們的報告就只有三段話包含"},{"start":5853.604,"end":5881.525,"text":"公共化、在地化、專業化、多元化、國際化這些元素你們都沒有說你們就簡單的三段文字就想要告訴我這是你們的一百plus我覺得這個非常的荒謬喔那我們再來看我們到預算書裡面去把一百plus的關鍵字幫院長你抓出來了我們看到這邊會用將近一億三千多萬包含有紫計畫包含還有行銷、媒宣還有策展但是我們看到你們實際上的內容喔其實你們還把今年已經開辦的大美不言算進去"},{"start":5882.285,"end":5906.821,"text":"把法國跟捷克辦的兩個龍展也算進去然後如同你們的報告上面說南北院特展還有必送故宮送版圖書千年神域北宋西元亞極傳奇還有江戶服飾甲子萬年把這些放在一起叫做百年大展我實在是看不出策展的企劃性跟能力到底在哪裡可是實質上卻編列這麼多預算我真的很好奇院長你自己在你任內可以迎接這個100plus我認為非常的特別"},{"start":5909.142,"end":5910.724,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":5921.997,"end":5926.458,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":5950.066,"end":5950.827,"text":"主席,這些展覽都是很重要的。"},{"start":5970.046,"end":5996.705,"text":"例如說爪子萬年必送這個都是一個非常經典的展覽國外的博物館界的話都會認為說這是故宮的一個……院長我從頭到尾都沒有說它不經典我是說可是你們現在列出來的大展我看不出它跟百年plus的詮釋關係你們的論述的話語能力到底在哪裡如果我們去看一個展我們想像的是這幾個展之間可以讓我連結到百年plus可是我現在在看到相關報告裡面也沒有更何況"},{"start":5997.165,"end":6020.584,"text":"你們之前回給我的報告也才三句話就想要把百年plus講完我們回到最後一頁謝謝主席不好意思我從10月質詢11月審查預算1月收到報告只有三行字12月現在要審查預算我看到你們經費變得非常非常多可是卻沒有具體的計畫跟說明我認為這件事情它不只很難吸引台灣的遊客剛剛萬美林委員也說他希望可以吸引中國遊客我更想說的是"},{"start":6021.184,"end":6045.322,"text":"不管中國遊客要不要來我覺得是另外一個議題可是台灣現在每年到台灣來觀光的日本人跟韓國人絕對也都會對故宮有興趣可是我看不到一個論述的話語的能力好嗎院長所以我追了我從去年一直追追到現在已經一年了我們還是看不到百年plus的特殊性或者是他讓大家如何想像到我跟故宮百年plus的關係我認為這個部分故宮拜託要再加強"},{"start":6046.543,"end":6046.924,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":6059.161,"end":6085.435,"text":"故宮到台灣來每一件物品跟故宮的時代的接軌的一個關係那這個東西的話當然他會有一個陳述可是因為那個策展整個文案還沒有出來所以文案沒有出來的話他只是只能用一種比較好那最後一個問題如果真的像院長您說的我們現在就尊重您的規劃跟您的想像您認為這可以給故宮帶來多少人次的上升"},{"start":6088.619,"end":6099.953,"text":"如果因為百年plus你們的用心規劃跟企劃因為我們在做一個企劃我們當然會設定他的目標我們要走到哪裡去嗎我們當然就是北院250萬然後南院100萬350萬的話是我們一起的現階段的一個目標"},{"start":6104.619,"end":6124.79,"text":"好,那我們就來看看有沒有機會達到這個目標。如果沒有,我覺得認為回過來檢討如何跟不同的國家的遊客,日本的韓國或是我們台灣自己的本地遊客加強對故宮的認識跟想像。我認為這是故宮非常重要的任務。以上,謝謝院長,謝謝主席。是。好,謝謝陳秉渝委員。接下來我們有請林倩琦委員質詢。"},{"start":6134.559,"end":6160.975,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們的院團人還有我們故宮的同仁,大家早安,大家好。那我們就請蕭院長。好,有請蕭院長。好,院長早。好,院長早。據本席的了解,您的立場一直認為兩岸文化的交流對於兩岸民眾的相互理解是相對正面的。所以故宮在推動兩岸交流上,是不是應該更積極一點?"},{"start":6162.797,"end":6176.335,"text":"前年北京故宮王旭東院長提到良安故宮是親兄弟北京故宮跟故宮本院從來沒有任何障礙"},{"start":6177.577,"end":6194.277,"text":"所以從他們的回應來講他們應該是相當有意願在文化交流上重啟一些可能性所以您本身應該對這個部分也是蠻正面的所以目前有沒有研議這個一個時程那最快有沒有再拿一些可能性呢?"},{"start":6195.819,"end":6215.414,"text":"目前當然沒有一個既定的時程但是事實上透過民間的管道跟我接觸說希望跟故宮有一個合作關係的這個一直都沒有間斷那事實上我們在協助交流跟人員互訪上面的話我們是開放的"},{"start":6217.003,"end":6244.153,"text":"好的所以這個部分我相信您應該很正面只是本席這邊希望您再更積極一點那在話語權的部分也可以再更更被了解而且基本上來講的話因為故宮文物出國的話有一個司法免扣押的一個無形的那個那個那個智庫在那邊所以要跟兩岸交流的話大陸過來的話基本上來講我們是沒有問題但是大陸"},{"start":6245.453,"end":6269.273,"text":"故宮的東西,國立故宮博物院的東西要去大陸的話基本上來講的話目前還是要有一個嚴謹的方式來處理好的,那這是這個區塊嘛但是就本席了解您在學術上然後有一些文創商品上也有一些想法所以本席最主要也是提醒那這個部分不要忘記這個故宮的一個歷史"},{"start":6272.315,"end":6295.501,"text":"我想今天有很多人也很關心故宮100的這個計畫那剛才本席也聽了一下目前的這個進度那我這邊也很關心因為民國14年10月10號的成立在我們的文化藝術上是非常的重要所以故宮在迎接這個未來2025年的故宮100我想很多人會很關心所以從剛才的這個紅委員提到"},{"start":6296.361,"end":6318.476,"text":"在故宮的整個對外的連接上跟相關部會是不是可以以故宮作為一個主體然後在2025年這樣一個主題上然後可以連結各部會讓大家了解有這樣一個可能性所以這樣竟然在文案還沒有出來我想這個部分可以提供文案上的一些參考那雖然您這邊也有人數的一個預估那250在本院那150在南院的話"},{"start":6323.9,"end":6343.693,"text":"如果能夠協同其他部會來把這樣一個主題連接起來我想量能上搞不好自然而然的就變得很高所以這是本席的一個提醒那至於這個論述權本席這邊也提醒那114年你們的願慶那你有很多一個很精彩的表演跟願慶的活動"},{"start":6345.034,"end":6346.555,"text":"展覽主題與文物選件展覽的佈置教育推廣上透過主題與學校的連結"},{"start":6361.602,"end":6362.903,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院"},{"start":6387.073,"end":6395.198,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博"},{"start":6414.77,"end":6435.162,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":6435.322,"end":6437.705,"text":"不過這邊本席要提醒的就是說這個100plus是很重要的一個時間節點可是如果能夠透過這個100plus故宮100年的這樣一個主題讓大家在所有的展示上你們的一些展演上能夠透過這個機會連結"},{"start":6451.298,"end":6472.863,"text":"讓大家知道他不僅有這樣一個歷史性而且他有一個時間的標記性這個是本席在這邊要特別提醒的那也呼應了剛才那個陳委員所講的你們的話語權跟這個主題大家如何對這個100產生意義這是本席這邊的提醒而且也會在你們的業務內容上未來持續的去追蹤"},{"start":6474.463,"end":6495.732,"text":"本席就先做這樣一個提醒我想很多委員都有這樣提醒那包括其實我不知道還有沒有時間講但是你們百萬學子的悠遊博物館的計畫也是有委員關心但是你也可以透過這個計畫來把故宮100做一個連結這是本席其實你們在許多計畫上可以朝這樣一個方向讓大家從100"},{"start":6496.812,"end":6514.959,"text":"的這一年展開一個新的里程碑最後本席先談一下你們許多筆預算這可能你們要跟本席要做一個報告新故宮計畫的解凍書面報告跟新故宮公共化帶動觀光產業發展的中層計畫大部分是做硬體"},{"start":6515.819,"end":6519.201,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案總預算案"},{"start":6545.082,"end":6560.571,"text":"經貴編列有一點雷同所以這部分本席希望你能夠給本席一個很書面的報告然後告訴本席為什麼編在這樣一些項目下我感覺有一點重複編列不知道您這邊的看法"},{"start":6561.772,"end":6576.032,"text":"新故宮計劃基本上來講是一個公共建設計劃,可是它的經資比裡面是可以允許編列經常門的預算。當然這樣的經常門預算跟故宮的本預算裡面有沒有什麼"},{"start":6577.954,"end":6606.175,"text":"重複的部分我想這個我們會理清應該是沒有重複所謂的重複問題而是說去互補去補其所不足或是一個新興的計畫這個部分的話我們會用你們再檢視確認一下好不好那最後一個提醒當然跟故宮那個100有關但是也最重要就是這個百萬悠遊學子就我所知目前的數據就是你們接待偏鄉的學校目前41所我這邊有點焦急"},{"start":6606.835,"end":6608.697,"text":"姑宮100是一個很重要的主題話語權然後藉這個機會的推動讓大家對故宮從100"},{"start":6632.615,"end":6636.156,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":6658.504,"end":6659.445,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":6680.024,"end":6696.569,"text":"您們還是可以繼續這樣推動,我覺得這個方向很好。但是本席還是提醒,剛才外委員這邊有提醒,相關的計畫可能及早出來,大家也可以在這個學期的時間內去做一些處理。所以這是本席的一個提醒。謝謝院長。好,謝謝委員提醒。好,謝謝林倩琦委員。接下來我們有請陳秀寶委員質詢。"},{"start":6712.205,"end":6715.076,"text":"謝謝主席請校院長好有請校院長"},{"start":6718.942,"end":6742.882,"text":"委員早 院長早安 院長在我進入我的質詢主題之前我先就我們昨天晚上的一個很震撼的消息就是關於南韓政府緊急宣布戒嚴當然不久之後國會就通過戒嚴這個狀況我想請教一下院長我們目前故宮南北院有沒有跟南韓的博物館正在進行連展或是有這樣子策展的規劃"},{"start":6745.25,"end":6759.108,"text":"韓國的展覽,去年的話,亞洲藝術業主題國是韓國,所以我們在去年整個展覽非常順暢,完全沒有問題。而且去年的話,因為...院長,我是請教您說目前有沒有正在進行的聯展,或是未來有沒有這樣的規劃?"},{"start":6760.089,"end":6772.013,"text":"目前沒有目前沒有那其實我知道說我們故宮的這個文物界展交流呢一定是會選擇就是政局比較穩定然後就在整個國際情勢上相對就是比較不會有問題的國家但是昨天這個狀況是很突然的齁因為國際政局其實也是瞬息萬變這邊我其實是要提醒院長就是說未來我們故宮過於類似的狀況這樣緊急的狀況完全是出乎意料之外的狀況應該要有一套因應的辦法"},{"start":6787.858,"end":6803.516,"text":"關於我們的交流的國家臨時有怎樣政治的變化的話我們如何確保我們文物的安全我們有什麼緊急因應的措施這個部分希望院長這邊一定要很嚴謹的來研議對於相對的有突發狀況的時候做什麼處理來保護我們文物的安全"},{"start":6804.036,"end":6809.22,"text":"院長我這邊要提醒的是說萬一我們的文物跟國外交流的時候我們文物在其他人的國家那它有什麼緊急的政治的變化的時候對 這個我們要來研議因為過去我們是沒有做這一塊的"},{"start":6828.636,"end":6848.852,"text":"這個部分希望說你們要趕快嚴謹的來討論那接下來本期這邊要就我們故宮數位物件利用權利金達成利便利這個問題來就教我們院長目前我們故宮聯名的這個商品是越來越多元最近最夯的大家很熱烈討論的就是故宮跟屈臣氏聯名的這個商品"},{"start":6849.532,"end":6868.02,"text":"讓我們典藏文物可以走入我們民眾生活日常那本席過去也一直很一直都在提醒故宮我們要除了自己要開發周邊的也應該積極的跨界的來合作但是根據預算中心的報告我們故宮的數位物件利用權利金達成力是很低的我們從表格上來看在108年還有62.22%比"},{"start":6873.783,"end":6880.472,"text":"但是來到113年結算到7月的時候我們的達成率只有29.97%那這幾年最低最低的也只有13.75%那這個為什麼這麼低院長你們有沒有去了解過是什麼原因"},{"start":6890.886,"end":6914.301,"text":"與委員報告,故宮推出了open data,open data可以讓外界自由應用故宮的圖檔,所以在open data的部份IP授權的他的錢已經達成率當然是偏低,逐年降低,這是讓利給民間,但是出版授權跟品牌授權的話,"},{"start":6915.342,"end":6915.863,"text":"主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":6932.723,"end":6956.552,"text":"讓國寶的圖檔衍生出來的周邊產品可以走入尋常百姓家其實這也是我覺得很疑惑的地方當然院長您說的因為我們開放了部分的圖檔給民眾自己來使用但是其實我們自己本身開發的這些商品以及故宮聯名的商品都是引起很大的討論民眾都非常非常的熱烈那為什麼我們權利金的達成率是很低的我也希望說我們院長這邊要好好地探究我們如何來提升我們這個權利金的達成率"},{"start":6962.37,"end":6962.83,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6990.09,"end":6991.09,"text":"一張賣圖片的東西放掉。關於禮品的價格"},{"start":7005.895,"end":7009.816,"text":"姑宮北院112年度的遊客觀眾滿意調查結果顯示,針對禮品價格滿意度只有57.4%是所有調查項目滿意度最低的其中不太滿意的有7.5%非常不滿意的有1.4%院長你覺得這是什麼原因?就是說我們的這個"},{"start":7030.561,"end":7039.783,"text":"對這個禮品的價格不滿意但是院長您說的就是你們的調查報告裡面是說一個是因為禮品的價格太貴一個是因為禮品的明信片價格太貴院長你覺得是這個原因嗎?"},{"start":7041.318,"end":7068.439,"text":"不完全是這個樣子啦因為故宮基本上來講的話如果要在故宮或是用故宮人民上架的話故宮會要求他的品質那如果要求他的品質的話相對的話他當然他的價錢會反映在商品上面本席覺得說故宮的禮品集周邊其實我們要打我們主打的對象不只是外國的觀客還有我們自己本地在地的遊客那如果連這個售價是連本地的遊客都沒辦法介紹的我給你看一樣東西"},{"start":7071.721,"end":7074.427,"text":"這一次啊大家很夯的在討論這個院長你知道這個一包賣多少嗎?40塊"},{"start":7078.154,"end":7102.095,"text":"那你知道外面的商店這個一般賣多少嗎?呃...所以我就說這是品牌嘛因為有品牌的話...其實是一樣的東西但是我為什麼要特別跟您講這個東西其實很多遊客去到故宮很多東西他們都很喜歡包括我的助理他也常常去故宮參訪但是他們看到那些磁鐵板是他明明很喜歡他買不下手到最後他再買一包這個回來為什麼?因為這是所有的商品裡面相對是價格比較低的但是它已經是外面售價的兩倍了"},{"start":7105.538,"end":7128.524,"text":"議長﹗"},{"start":7128.564,"end":7137.586,"text":"這個是一回事我現在要提醒您的就是說我們走經濟質感的這個精品路線還是說我們走親切的評價路線我們的商品我們的價格如何做區隔我們如何去定位說我們今天這樣的紀念品或是說遊客他願意帶回去的商品我們如何來做界定我們如何做定位我們的客群我們到底如何去來符合我們的遊客他們所需要的來設定這樣的商品故宮有做這樣子的考量嗎"},{"start":7158.03,"end":7163.054,"text":"其實我們台灣的觀光客都會知道說只要在觀光地區買的東西一定比較貴一定比較貴那貴要貴得有價值他覺得說我願意去買即便說你這一包如果說他賣200賣300他願意去買的原因是什麼而不是說我逛到這邊我沒有什麼好買我只好買了一個我覺得還是很貴的東西那其實這個東西他吃完了之後他袋子就丟了他其實是沒有什麼紀念價值的"},{"start":7185.489,"end":7186.129,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮"},{"start":7207.685,"end":7223.994,"text":"所以這邊我還是要提醒喔這個部分呢除了就是我們這個授權之外我們對商品的定位我們對商品的這個路線我們還是要一個很清楚的這個客群的區分院長你能懂得我的表白嗎?是 這個表這個表達有夠清楚就是我是希望說您能夠對我們的商品我們怎樣的客群有怎樣的需求我們來做這樣的介紹"},{"start":7233.319,"end":7236.121,"text":"關於故宮的參訪人數這個部分因為其實之前院長您在這個記者在你們的參會的時候上面有講說你希望說你們達到你們的參訪人數有350萬"},{"start":7256.112,"end":7262.716,"text":"但是先到現在你也知道說這個人數是有相當相當大的落差我相信說到年底你也沒辦法達成這樣子的參訪人數那麼我們如何在未來我們去規劃說我們這些參訪人數如何從外國遊客這邊吸引過來包括我們自己本國的遊客這邊我想給院長一個建議那其實很多除了說我們要加強國外姐妹館這個合作之外呢"},{"start":7280.208,"end":7280.568,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7301.076,"end":7323.487,"text":"道韓國旅遊的遊客或是在他們自己在地的遊客來做推薦然後我們再跟相關的旅行社或是旅遊網站來合作來做成一日的這個行程推薦我相信這個可以吸引到很多的國際遊客請院長跟我們故宮同仁可以思考我們既然要作為國際的博物館不只是我們的館長專業要很傑出那我們要怎麼彈性的應用這個行銷來提升自己在國際的能見度院長您覺得呢"},{"start":7329.947,"end":7353.264,"text":"謝謝委員的指導因為我們最近這個禮拜的話也要跟議會網去談怎麼樣讓那個國際的旅客然後可以接高鐵然後可以接旅館可以接故宮包括到藍燕去像很多我剛有提到說很多國外的名人來到台灣他們都會想要去故宮那我們藉由他們的旅遊路線來做成旅遊建議來做成一日遊二日遊"},{"start":7357.568,"end":7358.189,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":7389.055,"end":7410.442,"text":"院長其實很多人都會有一個大哉問就是我們的那些國寶典藏品在故宮到底有沒有得到妥善的保存而且到底有幾件我先請教一下院長你們最近一次清查我們院內的所有的典藏品是什麼時候"},{"start":7413.211,"end":7419.397,"text":"清查的話是103年103年啊依照博物館法的話是20年進行一次總盤點所以是103年103年10年前曾經清查過97到101年7月"},{"start":7436.129,"end":7457.899,"text":"所以到底是哪一個?因為學長你回答問題的時候,你怎麼會給我一個錯誤的答案?我前面的那個印象是錯誤,同仁給我的比較精確。所以正確來講是什麼時候?97到101。到101。101?對。101的清查過,然後按照博物館法應該20年內要再清查一次,所以下一次清查是121年前完成,我這樣講有錯嗎?"},{"start":7460.601,"end":7478.677,"text":"呃,理論上是這樣,沒有錯。好,那請問一下上次清查總共幾件?故宮點餐品總共幾件?呃,69萬多件,精確的數據的話,69萬多件是不是?對。要不要後面的提醒一下?因為現在的件數的話,就是歷年有兼政然後是會滾動,現在是69萬8千887件。69萬8,那裡面有分幾種等級?"},{"start":7486.391,"end":7488.253,"text":"國保幾件?現在當院長要怎麼樣的人可以當?"},{"start":7510.526,"end":7524.276,"text":"國寶在你們故宮博物院的典藏應該是最重要的一件事情結果我問你國寶幾件這個對你來講應該是太陽從東邊西邊出來一樣的答案你都答不出來國寶幾件因為我要精切的數字國寶幾件4900049000幾件49000好那下一個等級重要股物的話是3585835858好加起來大概"},{"start":7537.369,"end":7543.672,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":7562.901,"end":7585.591,"text":"外部委員參與那個參與盤點就每一次都要有兩位的外部委員每一次都要兩個外部委員那兩外部委員會重複嗎?不會?就同樣從頭到尾就是兩個外部委員沒有沒有不可能委員不可能不可能嘛對不對好那我想問一下除了外部委員參與清查之外調查報告出來之後還有一個外部稽查機制嗎?"},{"start":7587.159,"end":7609.599,"text":"請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問請問"},{"start":7609.895,"end":7624.605,"text":"所以是否可以增加一個外部稽查機制就是你把你們清查的調查報告下次一定會下次怎麼做要怎麼做那如果現在我們可能現在大家都有這樣的疑問那我們現在可以怎麼去清查"},{"start":7625.649,"end":7650.333,"text":"現在怎麼可以藉由外部的機制來籌查我先講就是正常的一個記查程序的話就正常一個大盤點的話就是點檢我們叫點檢點檢的話是不只是看數量而且看作品的狀況那基本上來講的話要有業單位要有廣方的人要有兩位的外部的委員然後還要有政風所以這是一個內部沒有我講的不是你們內部我講的是外部"},{"start":7650.453,"end":7667.562,"text":"外部的機制的話當然就是說這個部分我們會研議也許找一個所謂的公證單位然後在整個盤點的過程裡面就派人參與因為現在我們變成要等到121年嘛但我就講了嘛我說現在就很多每次只要有故宮的議題大家都在問啦這些"},{"start":7669.904,"end":7692.977,"text":"國寶這些所謂你講的重要文物到底有沒有得到妥善保存它會不會遺失了我們不知道到底有沒有掉了我們不知道到底有沒有破損了我們不知道到底有什麼外部的監理機制可以進入到這個系統裡面讓大家可以知道其實這些國寶我現在是善意的讓這些國寶被大家知道有妥善的保存有什麼樣的機制可以做到公開透明"},{"start":7694.718,"end":7695.178,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管預算案"},{"start":7711.548,"end":7733.482,"text":"讓大家知道說故宮的國寶現在被妥占保存而且沒有遺失,明年前可不可以?可以,我跟委員報告就大盤點所謂的20年的遺失的大盤點之外的話我們每一季包括我自己包括那個單位的主管都會每一季都會抽點抽點的話是用電腦隨機去寫一件對啦那個是院長嘛那還是屬於內部我現在講的外部嘛"},{"start":7735.563,"end":7736.163,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":7757.49,"end":7777.09,"text":"這個會議結束前好不好?好不好?然後1月20幾號前提一個初步想法給我我們把外部的監理機制把它建立起來因為太多人懷疑這件事情接下來幾個細部的事情跟你討論一下第一個有關於解凍案你這邊提到說解凍案其中有一項是要處理土黨的外流事件"},{"start":7778.973,"end":7793.294,"text":"在你們的後續改善措施裡面這邊有提到112年3月17號曾經有跟淘寶網發出律師函提出希望他們可以把那些打包的圖檔下架的主張這是你們的報告裡面所寫的"},{"start":7794.255,"end":7821.348,"text":"那這邊有講說確實有部分的成效啦因為部分商品已經下架可是問題是那個是112年3月做的已經一年多以前了那我們來看我們最近找到的資料我這邊列出來的全部都是在淘寶上面有一些店家他就是在做打包圖檔銷售的工作那這個部分在故宮的認定裡面其實這個也是不OK的這也是侵權的"},{"start":7822.108,"end":7837.039,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7838.021,"end":7857.506,"text":"寫買過的店為什麼會寫買過的店因為我助理在今年年初的應該是第一次我們質詢院長的時候那是應該3、4月的時候已經半年前了同樣的店半年還一直存在代表說這半年來故宮對於要求淘寶下架這一些所謂的清錢店家沒有進行進一步的動作我想問說為什麼從112年3月之後就沒有再進一步的動作"},{"start":7862.093,"end":7874.35,"text":"根據委員報告就113年9月10月11月我們都有都有都有跟那個113年9月對所以112年3月之後就跳到113年9月沒有"},{"start":7877.867,"end":7877.887,"text":"〔記者〕"},{"start":7898.797,"end":7914.07,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7914.51,"end":7914.831,"text":"同一家"},{"start":7945.551,"end":7969.474,"text":"這是清朝的其中一項之品嗎?這你認出來嗎?呃,跟人講認不出來。認不出來?對。因為我不是這個專業。你看他在修復的時候,他必須要透過顯微鏡,有的要放大65倍,有的要放大50倍。所以做非常細微的修復。那這個部分,真的需要專門的人才啦。如果沒有專門人才,沒有辦法做到。可是,"},{"start":7970.094,"end":7994.108,"text":"目前來講的話,資品人只有一個人可以修復,上次你跟你提過,那後來我們的結論是講說你要跟行政院去爭取人力嘛,不曉得有去爭取了嗎?我有跟那個人種那邊跟那個溝通,那他們現在也在進行故宮的人力盤點,那如果說短期沒有辦法的話,因為我們會用基金的方式先行禁用。所以說是指資品還是所有的各類的?"},{"start":7996.329,"end":8024.602,"text":"當然是製品,那製品的話基本上來講的話我們希望說找到一個類似的不是只會專修製品啦因為基本上來講的話他有一些人才的話如果他的那個修復的幅度比較廣泛的話可以修復到其他的器物因為製品也不是製品他也有什麼碼頭啊有什麼東西上面所以這個部分的話我們會去找適當的人才增補OK好好謝謝"},{"start":8028.454,"end":8028.615,"text":"羅廷偉委員"},{"start":8050.134,"end":8064.534,"text":"院長好是上次有問到有關於參觀博物館的人次喔不知道院長還記不記得當時院長有說參觀人次是沒辦法讓人家滿意喔覺得可以再加強一下具體怎麼做院長有想出解決辦法了嗎"},{"start":8066.744,"end":8091.092,"text":"因為故宮其實同仁都很努力我們辦的好的展覽然後辦了一些教育活動可是人潮沒有回流真的是很我們自己也覺得很不滿意但明年的話我們100plus的話我們會有一些重要的文物到南苑的話基本上來講是不管是北苑南苑的話我期待它的參觀人數都會增加所以院長您覺得您的具體作為就是將"},{"start":8091.972,"end":8093.854,"text":"主管預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8112.75,"end":8122.015,"text":"之前馬英九總統執政蔡英文總統執政我們這些過往的旅客當中是不是入客是屬於大宗的?"},{"start":8123.927,"end":8144.566,"text":"路客在整個階段性的時候基本上來講把那個故宮博物院衝到高點可是當初沒有開放路客的時候觀眾其實也不少了但是你不能否認路客是佔極大多數那個時候是把故宮的參觀人數拉高到現在一直都沒有辦法突破的一個"},{"start":8144.986,"end":8166.146,"text":"就如同你所說的文化應該要有交流的一個橋樑但我們看到現在兩岸政策的一個僵局影響故宮參訪的人數似乎讓文化也受到了政治的一個限制這是非常可惜的這幾天我們看到陸生團參觀故宮陸生團都很興奮看到翠玉白菜肉心石清明上河圖本尊我想請問"},{"start":8167.247,"end":8190.465,"text":"故宮作為兩岸文化最高殿堂如果我們可以用文化取代口水用文化改變緊張關係以故宮作為一個平台推動兩岸文化的一個軟性互動讓文化外交超越政治的緊張院長你覺得這個有沒有辦法讓故宮成為兩岸文化交流的春暖花開的一個契機關鍵的一個鑰匙請回答"},{"start":8192.386,"end":8218.502,"text":"顧宮當然在整個兩岸文化交流的話會有一個一定性的作用跟影響可是如果要故宮變成是一個指標或是影響的關鍵的話基本上來講的話這個可能還要大家還要有有一點點共識當然不敢奢求一定當指標但是我希望能夠開啟這樣的契機未來透過這樣子的一個軟性互動文化交流"},{"start":8219.002,"end":8220.584,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8233.656,"end":8261.482,"text":"這就是我們最重要的一個今天來到的一個目標那我另外要跟你討論省基部去年的報告故宮在數位轉型的時候未依照數位安全規範將所謂的系統變更管理的一個作業環境措施等問題加上去年曾經故宮文物高階圖檔外洩並被放到淘寶賤賣的一個事情這無疑就是對整個故宮資訊安全的一個疑慮我想我們當然全力的來衝"},{"start":8262.762,"end":8286.84,"text":"所謂的入課、入生來參觀故宮但是對於我們自己的資訊安全的保障我們是認為刻不容緩而且是寸土不讓在審計部也有這樣子的一個報告我想問現在審計部的一個報告故宮今年五月回應提出五項的資安改善現在目前有符合哪一些是ISMS的規範改進內容有嗎?"},{"start":8294.894,"end":8313.61,"text":"請說委員好那個數字是主任謝君哥第一次報告ISMS的制度我們已經多年在這個月要重新取得ISO27002的這個認證的延續所以我們大致上是有經過ISMS這樣的一個標準的作業你們最近是不是有委外辦理"},{"start":8314.77,"end":8336.732,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":8337.403,"end":8362.077,"text":"我認為不應該再有這樣子的一個事件的發生跟委員報告的確就是在兩年前的話就是有所謂的同人作業的貪圖便利把圖檔放在開放空間中但這個事情的話跟所謂的淘寶的賤賣圖檔沒有關係因為我們去清查所有淘寶的圖檔裡面基本上來講都是以故宮open data的居多"},{"start":8362.737,"end":8387.71,"text":"但是open data本來就可以自由取用可是他們把它打包上去賣所以這樣的作為不符合法。我想我們都非常的重視不管是剛剛有委員提到所謂的文物的保存到現在數位資訊安全我想我要再一次的最後下通牒如果故宮讓我們這麼不擔心讓我們這麼擔心我們不排除還要到故宮做考察深入的了解我想不要走到這一步啊院長這很難堪啊"},{"start":8389.915,"end":8410.222,"text":"那我想故宮國寶的一個出遊到台中後續我也想跟你再追蹤上次我有跟你詢問喔在11月24本席有問到故宮國寶的一個出遊去本席有建議故宮館長移屍到台中當時院長有承諾我會再研議喔研議的情形我現在還沒有收到任何的答案院長"},{"start":8411.758,"end":8435.273,"text":"這個部分的話當然就是我會再找那個國內館的館長去討論1624到現在你還沒找他我有跟他溝通那那個那個比如說像那個高雄美術館他們也都來了都希望說跟故宮再加強合作甚至連台北美術館館長都來跟我們洽談我是很認真的在邀請我是希望院長能夠達到這次我們的一個需求我再提一個數據"},{"start":8440.516,"end":8463.9,"text":"這是一百一十二年預算中心評估報告故宮國寶出遊我們看到一百零七年國立台灣美術館一百零七年台中花博以及一百零八年的故宮南院相關的參觀人次都在這上面我想歷年的數據再加上國立故宮博物院博物院在這一百一十二年度的部會管制計畫平和結果裡面有提到"},{"start":8465.08,"end":8472.042,"text":" 112年故宮國寶由彰化2.0故宮文物及相關的新媒體藝術展總參觀的是43,389人次以及故宮出遊我們相關的國寶出遊在台南美術館的一個展覽合作都有129,424人次"},{"start":8483.706,"end":8503.661,"text":"就參觀人次來做我們來看這樣子的數據分析我們台中市居冠當然展期的期限長短也都有影響那如果就期限去和國立美術館相比也是遠超出許多所以院長台中市南北交通重要的一個樞紐擁有絕佳的地理位置"},{"start":8504.341,"end":8519.736,"text":"無論是高鐵台鐵還是開車民眾都非常方便喔再一次的麻煩院長慎重的幫我們協助我想這個工作我一定會努力來完成這是我第二次拜託第二次爭取喔也歡迎台中來策展大概可以多久給我答案"},{"start":8521.7,"end":8524.863,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8538.669,"end":8541.351,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":8567.842,"end":8570.384,"text":"謝主席有請蕭院長蕭院長請院長早院長早先說結論板橋林家私人文物寄存沒有問題有問題是他們不遵守我們國立故宮博物院藏品徵集作業要點"},{"start":8591.297,"end":8614.905,"text":"故宮長期對外宣稱板橋林家的文物這個案子之所以特殊是因為1969年林柏壽先生寄存蘭千山館文物的時候這是故宮最早的一個寄存案那可是上一次尋答院長的時候你也是這樣講可是我覺得這種說法基本上邏輯不同怎麼說"},{"start":8615.865,"end":8630.87,"text":"因為你一方面忽略1948年金陵大學寄存明崇禎刊本大學出函共32冊這個事實再來你也忽略板橋林家實際上還有兩批的寄存文物除了1969的藍籤三館以外還有2002年林漢東先生代表寄存的557件的書畫跟文物"},{"start":8641.154,"end":8648.477,"text":"那2022年底民眾在公共政策的網路平台上發起搶救藍千山館的文物那國保留台灣這個倡議那大家才開始來關心藍千山館這349文物究竟何去何從那最終故宮是讓藍千山館文物續存的沒錯可是同樣也讓板橋林家其他的557件文物"},{"start":8667.225,"end":8669.206,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8691.506,"end":8708.343,"text":"當然就是因為社會大眾關心板橋林家的議題那最早林博社他記場的時候實際上他是有一個監政的概念但是因為當時的整個社會環境跟那個所謂的監政的比如說扣減稅"},{"start":8709.364,"end":8712.487,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8729.082,"end":8729.662,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8753.698,"end":8754.398,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8772.731,"end":8789.166,"text":"因為剛剛談到民眾在這個公共政策的網路平台發起的倡議院長也應該知道那一次的倡議的其中有一項訴求就是說必須將黃泉本蘭亭還有小草千字文指定為國寶避免這種國寶文物流落到海外"},{"start":8790.487,"end":8813.719,"text":"據了解板橋林家確實有成員住在香港院長你想想我們如果讓板橋林家利用國家資源寄存他的文物在我們世界級的台灣故宮博物院那麼久結果到最後這幾件的國寶級文物如果竟然淪落到中國又或者到其他國家去這不是在砸故宮的招牌嗎"},{"start":8815.16,"end":8817.801,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":8836.969,"end":8851.215,"text":"故宮的新制、這個產品徵集作為要點或或者現行的文資保存法第66條都有規定故宮對於自己保存的管理的文物我們要暫行分級然後報中央主管機關來備查而且其中還會具備國寶或者重要古物的這個價值的我們還要列冊去審查"},{"start":8858.378,"end":8877.887,"text":"請院長說明針對板橋林家既存906件文物預計要什麼時候完成國寶跟重要古物的審查因為當初故宮跟板橋林家確實簽了不平等條約所以他們根本也不甩故宮的心智所以我覺得故宮"},{"start":8878.547,"end":8878.727,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":8901.461,"end":8901.641,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":8918.522,"end":8938.261,"text":"國法或重要股物審定的話因為雖然故宮是保管人但是還是要尊重當事人的一個立場因為如果審定國法重要股物的話當然是不能出境那我們也很了解這樣的一個相互的關係但是我們會"},{"start":8939.778,"end":8939.918,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":8959.011,"end":8979.749,"text":"有沒有方法把這個東西就留下來這樣子?對,獄長你這樣講其實是跟本席的想法是一次的,就是我們要把這個文物永留故宮那現在就是說方法怎麼處理,那怎麼符合法規,不要讓它那麼特殊那我想這個才是解決這個事情的這個最重要的方法"},{"start":8980.35,"end":8996.084,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8996.364,"end":9002.027,"text":"故宮有跟本辦表示說你們總計召開了6次的會議並且在1972到1978年間有運用這筆經費去印製出版品或收購200多件的文物但是2018雙方續約之後依這個合約就來進行所謂的日後經費的運用同時故宮也宣稱說假設日後板橋林家不會再繼續"},{"start":9024.36,"end":9041.783,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9041.983,"end":9058.491,"text":"再來這筆經費至今為止的運用看起來好像都需要經過板橋林家的同意而且如果相當的部分是必須用在替板橋林家來維護他的私人文物那故宮要怎麼說明這筆錢是你自己的?"},{"start":9061.316,"end":9082.674,"text":"跟委員報告就是說文物的技長的話當然就是他有一個邏輯可是這一筆一百萬的話他是監證監證的話是完成監證的話基本上來講就是故宮的財產那故宮在使用的用途賠償只是知會對方其實對方並沒有說一定要他們同意就讓他們知道說這個錢如果說這一百萬"},{"start":9085.356,"end":9086.278,"text":"是故宮的那當然故宮要怎麼使用無需經過他們的同意才對啊才是我們的嘛"},{"start":9092.921,"end":9117.558,"text":"所以這個部分的話就是有關資料的部分我們輸入資料會給委員可是我在這邊很肯定的就是說這一百萬的話是監證監證的話基本上來講的話就沒有所謂緩緩的問題那另外的經費的應用的話當然就是我尊重歷任的那個院長故宮他們怎麼樣去處理這個經費但是我的任內我也跟同仁討論過我也不會去用這一筆經費"},{"start":9118.519,"end":9120.261,"text":"：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":9135.721,"end":9135.861,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":9155.135,"end":9172.486,"text":"普新瑜、王士傑等的寄存案。還有金陵大學、江西省政府教育廳、陳芝麥夫人的寄存案。這個事情故宮一開始都沒有跟本辦說,都是我們一再追問之後,故宮才會有回應。"},{"start":9173.266,"end":9197.712,"text":"所以我想說故宮給的資料其實都沒有這些那依照新制或者是舊制還是像板橋這樣的這個置身於這個制度之外我們都不曉得到底是怎麼樣處理這些寄存文物所以是不是請這個院長能不能公開的這個透明的接受監督然後像做一個表格像本席秀出的這種PDD一樣然後清楚提供給本辦好不好"},{"start":9198.372,"end":9204.656,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9227.63,"end":9245.253,"text":"謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝林金委員接下來我們有請吳春成委員質詢有請院長院長請委員早院長好"},{"start":9258.066,"end":9282.324,"text":"恭喜這個故宮要百年喔百年喔但是我不曉得院長百歲宴慶不是百年不能用叫百年喔沒有啦現在百年都是好事啦那那個但是呢不曉得這個院長的心裡是酸甜苦辣是覺得很歡慶還是憂心忡忡"},{"start":9286.013,"end":9310.199,"text":"還有沒有百年?充滿了正面的正能量對期待很好我們沒有悲觀的權利本來就這樣子政務官都應該這樣子我在問有些部會就有些部會那個蠻悲觀的特別對高齡社會充滿悲觀的想像高齡基本上來講也是故宮現在主要的服務對象"},{"start":9311.98,"end":9332.255,"text":"對對對應該是這樣子所以等一下要請院長回答一下這麼大的市場你們怎麼看但是呢我要講今天我要講文化問題在2000年民進黨執政之後的時候我有寫了我有註述文化保台論"},{"start":9334.909,"end":9337.592,"text":"以文化為戰略保護台灣"},{"start":9348.413,"end":9371.352,"text":"那怎麼善用這一個所以在文化寶台當中故宮就是一個戰略的中心這個你認同吧在2000年之前台灣是華夏文化的燈塔故宮是整個全球對於中華文明的一個一個向心力的地方就在2000年"},{"start":9372.799,"end":9391.693,"text":"那時候很多路客來台灣看了很感動因為他們在搞文化大革命的時候都把很多的中國文化都把它砸毀了說幸好你們把它拿到台灣來保存在台灣但是現在換我們開始想要搗毀這些文化"},{"start":9393.258,"end":9394.759,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9411.069,"end":9431.73,"text":"政治蠢人多,造成世上苦難。你看那些歷代領導人,都是想要砸毀文化耶。為什麼會這麼蠢蛋的事情?我們現在也在幹這種事情。好,第一個我要問,還是跟你確認一下,故宮是不是中華文化?故宮是中華文化嘛,對不對?是,沒有問題嘛。"},{"start":9433.012,"end":9447.168,"text":"台灣重要資產故宮典藏全世界最龐大的中華文化虧寶也世界文明人類文明的重要遺產"},{"start":9448.857,"end":9463.071,"text":"那所以這個在世界國際的博物館當中就是名列前茅台灣的故宮在國際當中很有地位那要請問院長在當前的台灣政治情勢和氣氛下"},{"start":9464.417,"end":9480.669,"text":"目前以中華文物為主的故宮博物院是否會有感到矛盾?站在博物館的管理者的立場我絕對沒有任何的矛盾所以故宮只是一個博物館"},{"start":9482.283,"end":9506.15,"text":"故宮當然是一個博物館它是一個華夏文化的一個重要的收藏的一個地方不是一個國家文明的一個國家文明的因為故宮地位跟博物館一般不一樣欸為什麼會所以呢這個上次我有問過你們把自己定位是一個博物館"},{"start":9507.423,"end":9511.515,"text":"中性的博物館收集來自各地都一樣"},{"start":9514.531,"end":9540.287,"text":"這個影響到,這不是只有這樣子,這影響到你的經營策略。我知道,可是如果是說要協力來講的話,新博館協的概念裡面的話,都不會把博館當作一個意識形態的工具,那當然沒有錯啦,它的確是,可是因為新博館協的話,基本上來講,大家都講這個東西。沒有啦,我知道這是你的危難,這個不叫意識形態,國家文明,"},{"start":9541.488,"end":9541.688,"text":"議員主席主席"},{"start":9558.083,"end":9572.321,"text":"故宮過去是外賓參訪台灣的首選我們看本來預估今年應該有170萬的國際訪客來造訪故宮但是截至到我現在的資料是10月24只有70萬一半都不到"},{"start":9573.903,"end":9602.446,"text":"包括我們經典的故宮的精選網站瀏覽次數也從過去2021年的327萬次下降到今年54萬次感覺故宮在的吸引力大大下降那為什麼呢?院長沒有吸引力不是沒有吸引力當然沒有錯就是委員也講說不能一直講疫情疫情已經過去了但是疫情的確是有影響所以包括"},{"start":9603.752,"end":9624.198,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管二、審查"},{"start":9633.291,"end":9660.792,"text":"亮點就是因為你在你位在整個世界爭端的第一線嘛所以呢就是有亮點嘛還沾沾自喜齁那好這個跳過去齁這就是我們的問題啦腦袋有問題啦OK外交部齁最近你們今年八月有12件的文物齁要歸還給中華民國的中華文物也收到給故宮來典藏欸這個也感覺到很奇怪"},{"start":9662.386,"end":9668.58,"text":"中華民國的東西或者是中華文物的東西外國的要還為什麼不還給中國要還給台灣故宮"},{"start":9671.229,"end":9676.15,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":9699.468,"end":9716.887,"text":"最近賴總統說中華民國論述要持續下去這當然就是各自解讀啦各自解讀也不太清楚他講的這句話是什麼意思但總之好像"},{"start":9718.328,"end":9743.625,"text":"好像是要接受中華民國把這個就是中華民國過去好像跟台灣是一個對立的概念現在想要把它化解一下它的矛盾現在看起來但是話是這樣講實際好像也沒有做但是至少有一個方向那我請問在賴總統這樣的一個方向下故宮是否要調整你的定位"},{"start":9745.964,"end":9751.348,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":9776.521,"end":9789.471,"text":"沒有這個問題喔因為你本來定位是南院要有亞洲文化博物館那北院是華夏文化館現在說要把它變成南北院定位一致那到底是誰定位了誰?誰統戰了誰?"},{"start":9791.092,"end":9793.674,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":9806.801,"end":9818.453,"text":"故宮去中化了之以身在其。所以這一個,現在都在去中,我們課綱也要去中啊,什麼要去中,所以呢,我看你們的報告裡面都不太,寫下筆下字都有小心翼翼。"},{"start":9827.663,"end":9856.582,"text":"不然你們都會有文字獄的問題我告訴你來下一頁你看這個文字獄來了對不對你看南韓宣布戒嚴要剷除清北韓勢力因為有清北韓所以就要戒嚴那一天我們也是因為變成親中賣台的理由也要來搞這一套的時候你知道第一線要遭殃的就是故宮故宮是否為中共宣傳"},{"start":9857.743,"end":9880.61,"text":"有沒有這樣子你看連那個中生來台只是參訪一下中山女高的學生看到馬龍那個帥哥尖叫馬上覺得我們被統戰了你看網路就論戰成了一個玻璃心就碎成一片你知道故宮現在會不會有這種疑慮呢"},{"start":9886.314,"end":9892.575,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管故宮博物院"},{"start":9913.328,"end":9914.069,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管國務委員"},{"start":9934.5,"end":9955.1,"text":"國務院長11月30日馬辦邀請陸生來台舉報故宮展間一度水洩不通很多人要來索取簽名等等當天我們比較擔心的是因為在展間當中有很多的國寶"},{"start":9956.237,"end":9966.323,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":9967.3,"end":9988.266,"text":"跟委員報告因為大美不遠的話本身它就是一個排隊的展覽那一天的確是因為有這個訪問團的話就讓場面有點稍微混亂一點可是因為故宮基本上來講本來就已經有因應所以只是人潮擁擠一點的話其他的志氣都還算正常"},{"start":9988.686,"end":9989.486,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":10015.034,"end":10026.064,"text":"一般熱潮到故宮南院,如果北部沒有看的話我在這邊呼籲現在不用急著去擠會場,到南部南院去看也蠻好的。"},{"start":10027.961,"end":10057.136,"text":"那我接下來想要問的就是我們的新故宮計畫這個北部的院區我們有一個擴建的一個進度那當然我們知道這個北院的整擴建的部分其實10月底執行率也高達了84.12%那目前我比較想要知道的就是在至善路的入口那個無障礙的通道的新建的一個工程那目前的這個這個工程進行的狀況如何然後它的期程大概是多久"},{"start":10059.409,"end":10067.392,"text":"這個基本上來講臺北市政府的杜花他們已經審議通過然後現在在進行細部設計然後就是那個計畫的公開閱覽"},{"start":10070.484,"end":10072.886,"text":"我們現在的話程序上的話是明年開工然後116年完工"},{"start":10088.82,"end":10091.541,"text":"第116年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10112.188,"end":10127.993,"text":"今年到10月底我們的參觀總共合計的人次是到達的人次大概是56.89%那這個部分其實我們當然希望就是明年又剛好是這個故宮100plus"},{"start":10129.053,"end":10133.216,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10154.518,"end":10174.683,"text":"我想故宮北院的話反部回升所以事實上今年的話大概可以達到180萬200萬達不到那故宮南院的話可以超越去年95萬這個我想是可以達到的雖然是不理想但是事實上是一點點的進展"},{"start":10176.903,"end":10201.278,"text":"南北縣我希望明年還是達到350萬為目標350萬的話北縣會比較有挑戰但是南縣的話明年超過100萬絕對沒有問題因為南縣的話明年我們會把一些重要的文物到南縣去展另外的話我們也會跟旅行業者跟旅館業者做一個套票讓他們去看南縣的這些大展"},{"start":10202.159,"end":10227.005,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10227.005,"end":10244.206,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":10244.266,"end":10244.606,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":10266.172,"end":10288.974,"text":"至於我們看到的這些數據從108年到113年在第1屆姊妹館的部分只有在111年的時候其實我們增加了一個一館那另外在簽訂MOU的部分在110年的時候只有增加了一個單位一個機構那這個部分我們是在跟國際來做跨國的一些合作的部分是有碰到什麼樣的瓶頸嗎?"},{"start":10291.299,"end":10305.784,"text":"這個部分就是在疫情期間的話當然就是實際上之前的簽約的話就是有點有點延續但是有延續但是停滯了對停滯了那我這兩年的話我們就開始把那個現在的回來"},{"start":10306.124,"end":10306.925,"text":".故宮到捷克展覽跟到華國展覽"},{"start":10326.565,"end":10347.448,"text":"故宮的文物出國展覽的話會引起一個國際的效益所以這個國際的效益的話基本上來講的話在國際宣傳上面就會增加那其他的地方的展覽我們也都在談那接下來因為時間的關係我們直接進到下一題就是故宮這個我們特別開放所謂的這個"},{"start":10348.889,"end":10352.472,"text":"資料深度運用計劃5年計劃110年至114年總預算包含線上學校平台功能設置運用數位科技進行AI教學運用"},{"start":10368.784,"end":10383.413,"text":"那當然也特別要響應這個教育部108的新課綱以素養為導向為主軸強化這個故宮的文物跟現場教學的一個環境的一個結合但是我想要問的是就是113年故宮開設的這個所謂的教育頻道其實跟前幾年開放平台學習的人數這個人數落差很大從這個24萬、34萬一直到113年剩下9萬7"},{"start":10397.602,"end":10420.486,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":10420.566,"end":10427.59,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":10450.12,"end":10471.108,"text":"因為那個落差的話實際上是差太多了好,那另外最後一個問題我想請教的就是我們的故宮的教育頻道這個線上的一個學校就聽我說文物這個部分雖然我們有一個英文版增加了國際化可是到目前為止聽說是兩年沒有更新了這個有其他的規劃還是為什麼兩年沒更新這個部分可以"},{"start":10471.948,"end":10498.077,"text":"這個部分我再了解一下到底是那個是讓他休眠還是說有其他的中共發聲好就是內容沒有更新的部分同仁講了說之前是一個專案專案結束之後的話就是就不會再更新也沒有其他的新的規劃我再了解一下因為這一塊我再了解一下我看怎麼處理再麻煩跟我們辦公室提供一下資料謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":10500.691,"end":10501.071,"text":"張雅琳委員"},{"start":10521.401,"end":10533.752,"text":"院長好,我想請問一下,我們在114年的院慶總共有25項展覽活動,那我想做一個展認對它的中心思想,所以可不可以請院長簡單的告訴我,你們這次的策展的中心思想是什麼?"},{"start":10535.944,"end":10553.539,"text":"展覽的話當然最主要就是說如果現場的展覽的話是呈現故宮博物院現場的精華那現場的精華的話基本上它其實有一些條件的限制很多人就說為什麼你不一次把故宮所有的精品通通出來因為有一些現場的文物有一些策展的概念"},{"start":10554.642,"end":10555.363,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管預算"},{"start":10574.793,"end":10591.061,"text":"聽起來是這樣子,我可以這樣說明嗎?對,當然就是說我們可以透過一個方式來展現故宮的典藏的一個特殊性存在。好,我懂了。那我想問一下,因為我在之前的新聞裡面也有看到就是說我們希望可以成為全民的故宮、世界的故宮。"},{"start":10592.822,"end":10615.988,"text":"我想了解因為這個要展示我們的武力展示的話那有一個非常重要的重點那就是我們到底要如何讓所有人回到你剛講的全民的故宮世界的故宮所以我今天的論述今天的質詢就會在這個論點上面來跟院長做一些討論那最主要就是說我們的全民故宮我今天要達到這個目的我們的方法跟策略是什麼裝瓶展示就能夠達到全民的故宮嗎"},{"start":10623.796,"end":10640.106,"text":"當然這是一步一步努力的目標,不可能憑任何一個單項的業務。對,所以我說您的策略是什麼?因為我們喊到這樣子的目標,那從這個院長的展示是一個,那我們重要的策略是什麼呢?"},{"start":10640.686,"end":10642.449,"text":"預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10655.748,"end":10660.531,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10685.864,"end":10690.225,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算二、審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":10708.891,"end":10731.845,"text":"我想問一個問題喔,就是說因為我自己在英國我寫的論文就是寫觀光行銷,台灣的觀光行銷怎麼做那當然其實博物館行銷也是一個非常重要的重點那它其實是一種叫做Integrable Marketing這件事情呢它就是無形的東西我們要如何做行銷我想這個國外,我想台灣也有非常多的專業跟學者我覺得是不是應該要啟動一個調查研究啊"},{"start":10732.285,"end":10750.027,"text":"研究到底為什麼我們的人數一直無法回升?是廣告沒下隊呢?還是TA沒抓精準呢?還是你策展的東西不夠吸引人呢?我們是不是可以啟動一個相關的研究調查?幫我們怎麼去做到全民的故宮、世界的故宮呢?因為現在聽起來這樣瞎子摸象的感覺。"},{"start":10751.141,"end":10780.901,"text":"OK 好 那我們試著來啟動一個所謂的調查看看能不能幫故宮針灸就是為什麼觀眾不能回流的原因對 因為我想重點還是要找出問題嘛對症下藥他才有可能幫助我們達到我們當年的水準那再來就是在下一個點我也想要針對就是百年故宮展裡面其實呢只有一個展是針對於孩子的就是2025的夏日親子藝術月而已"},{"start":10781.521,"end":10804.708,"text":"那我想回到一個更重要的重點就是說我一直在質詢我們北院的親子的兒少人數進場次是少的那代表是說如果我們沒有在現在去recruit這個年紀的人去招募這個年紀的人進來故宮的話未來他到底會不會進故宮是一個大問號所以我們是不是應該要來著重這個部分來去努力可是呢我也發現喔"},{"start":10806.926,"end":10808.328,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":10823.047,"end":10824.128,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":10841.729,"end":10855.008,"text":"這個可能要更詳細的資料可以去了解可是因為這個東西跟路程的演進跟偏鄉如果要到故宮的話當然相對的成本就會比較多所以這個部分我們要進一步的了解一下"},{"start":10857.111,"end":10883.337,"text":"這就是為什麼說我們必須要更精準的去看我們現有的這些數字上去了解原因因為我看到你們直接在113年直接大幅砍了跟11年相比砍了51%對半砍了這個經費如果我們今天要招募讓世界的故宮全民的故宮的話我看這些所作所為好像都沒有達到我們想要達到的目的因為我們一直沒有針對親子兒少的族群來做相對的一些方案"},{"start":10885.217,"end":10904.011,"text":"根委員報告我比較關心的就是整體的服務人數有沒有減少因為如果經費的減少是因為我們本預算的減少但是因為我們從外面募集的經費資源比較多那基本上來講如果可以讓他的人數上升然後我們本預算減少其實不是壞事"},{"start":10904.611,"end":10931.673,"text":"如果你預算減少人數上升當然非常好表示你精準嘛你非常精準嘛可是你現在就是預算增加人效素減少嘛那是不是有問題這個是麻煩您做一些研究調查那是不是可以在一個月給我一個提供我一個調查報告好不好我們來了解啦對症下藥啦那再來就是說我也希望如果我們了解出來我們是不是可以針對我們的兒少的方案有更精進的規劃呢因為兒少人次就是一直在下降嘛"},{"start":10932.93,"end":10936.873,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":10957.526,"end":10964.41,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":10985.282,"end":11005.42,"text":"我們的願慶和新故宮目前是在114年的預算書中願慶多項的預算都編列在新故宮計畫之下那這個現在是有3325萬但是在111年公開的新故宮計畫裡面卻沒有任何關於願慶的說明那您的回覆是說"},{"start":11006.261,"end":11028.292,"text":"因為是根據行政院所屬各機關中長程個案計劃編審要點來編列的可是要點中其實也有說明要變更主要工作項目需要修正原計劃等於就是說你要在新故宮計劃裡面編列願慶經費的話你是需要做變更計劃的可是我在資料裡面只找得到111年的計劃書裡面沒有願慶計劃"},{"start":11031.813,"end":11058.506,"text":"跟我們報告新故宮計劃裡面並沒有宴慶的那個活動軟體展覽經會沒有嗎?對,那個是我們跟那個主計總部而是在你們114年的預算書你3325萬都編列在新故宮計劃那是這個是這個應該這樣講就是說原來的原來我這樣講就是說沒有百年宴慶的話故宮基本上來講它每一個展覽是每一個檔期都還是有展覽"},{"start":11059.747,"end":11062.21,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11084.071,"end":11084.231,"text":"張雅琳委員"},{"start":11112.51,"end":11117.534,"text":"謝謝主席我請國立故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長好蕭院長請吳委員長院長好今天是我們故宮的預算報告案的詢答那委員會關心很多故宮的規劃以及未來的進展那其中呢有關於我們故宮的參觀人士很多人在關心那也很多委員提醒故宮要來"},{"start":11140.329,"end":11144.871,"text":"持續的增加我們的行銷等等相關的計畫那要行銷就要錢就要預算所以我更加關心的是因為現在立法院正在討論這個才化法的修法尤其是在野黨的版本依照我們現在的試算倘若在野黨的才化法通過修法通過的話"},{"start":11164.7,"end":11187.633,"text":"我們整個國家整體的文化預算中央的文化部會受影響的會減少133億那文化部以外像故宮這跨部會的文化支出會受到衝擊的會減少了近88億那其中呢我們故宮非常重要就是我們的新故宮計畫這一個預算假設在野黨版本的裁判法通過我們會減少"},{"start":11195.278,"end":11198.161,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":11220.777,"end":11221.398,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11238.16,"end":11242.123,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":11258.973,"end":11265.979,"text":"中國學生以中國台北稱呼台灣馬英九基金會執行長蕭旭成說這不過是中國一個習慣性的講法我要講的是我們台灣人從來沒有這個習慣"},{"start":11276.347,"end":11281.829,"text":"例如棒球有人習慣講台灣對有人習慣講中華對這都是我們台灣人的習慣但是中國台北從來不是台灣人的習慣這是中國的壞習慣一個陋習甚至這個陋習已經衍生到對台灣全面性的霸凌而中國台北這個稱呼霸凌對台灣霸凌的受害者之一也就是我們故宮過去是不是曾經發生有中國的"},{"start":11305.635,"end":11334.691,"text":"民間公司甚至到中國的官方海峽論壇的活動以中國台北故宮的名號來對我們國立故宮博物院從事侵權的新聞有沒有這樣的事情的確是有這個問題故宮博物院一直非常關切所以我們也透過兩岸的律師在大陸那邊提告這個案子基本上來講最近已經被接受了所以我們也有成功的案例"},{"start":11335.111,"end":11347.142,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":11348.123,"end":11373.337,"text":"接下來是我們故宮也跟上國際的潮流一直在進行開放博物館的計畫其中就包括了open data我是非常的支持因為這是一個文化禁用權希望讓更多人能夠來使用我們的這個素材但是必須是非營利的那也是協助我們故宮來進行推廣院長我們最近9月是不是跟台灣維基媒體協會有簽署一個合作備忘錄"},{"start":11377.279,"end":11398.854,"text":"對這個是預計要進行什麼樣的計畫呢這個我們會跟那個維基他們的系統裡面去把故宮的展覽上傳到那個系統裡面那基本上來講透過維基的話就可以了解故宮的展覽的內容所以除了圖片之外也包括了影音"},{"start":11400.499,"end":11419.194,"text":"錄音檔相關的這些素材也會進入到維基的開放?現在在談因為基本上來講的話合作的初期階段的話基本上我們用既有的展覽素材上去那未來的話當然會透過更進一步的一個合作的議題這個會逐年來討論"},{"start":11421.701,"end":11425.982,"text":"議員提到開放授權與授權有競合關係,目前對於開放授權與授權有競合關係,目前對於開放授權與授權的合作,"},{"start":11439.567,"end":11459.582,"text":"規範上面有沒有什麼要提醒民眾的?因為其實我們是可以授權惡創嗎?怎麼樣是可以惡創但是又不會侵權?有沒有什麼要提醒民眾大家注意的?基本上來講的話open data的話就是像委員的資料就是我們可以不用申請然後現用途不用互惠就可以直接下載"},{"start":11460.282,"end":11486.425,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11486.664,"end":11487.165,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":11497.85,"end":11499.531,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":11519.4,"end":11522.142,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":11545.278,"end":11571.969,"text":"當然人力上面不夠可是對於博物館的文物保存的話基本上來講的話經常性的保存維護是比較重要的而不是說平常沒有照顧然後變成說讓這個文物生病了然後才去找醫生去修復所以基本上來講的話就是這個基本的維護工作故宮非常重視所以目前來講的話文物都可以處於一個非常穩定非常安全的狀態"},{"start":11573.089,"end":11588.729,"text":"人力它的根本其實是在人才我看到故宮是不是昨天才宣布我們跟台師大有一個合作的計畫能不能跟說明一下這個建交合作的內容故宮除了跟台師大之外的話其實我們"},{"start":11590.691,"end":11617.637,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":11617.637,"end":11645.93,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":11646.27,"end":11654.278,"text":"故宮是我們國家非常重要的資產所以我們也很支持你們去進行跨單位跨領域的合作那我就來建議因為剛剛很多人提到說兒少的這個展覽或資源的推廣其實呢文化部從今年開始我們編列一個預算每年有6億"},{"start":11665.169,"end":11666.49,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":11690.282,"end":11693.883,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11719.474,"end":11719.594,"text":"姜蕙琳議員"},{"start":11742.997,"end":11745.218,"text":"委員長,故宮的門票收入並不理想由這個數字告訴我們在108年你的預算數是10.99億但決算只有8.51億所以你的達成率是77.59"},{"start":11758.784,"end":11775.261,"text":"大幅下降到了110年度是5.4億,決算是3.6億,所以你的達成率還是都是下降當然到112年的時候收入整個預算2.3億,你的決算是3億多增加"},{"start":11775.922,"end":11797.749,"text":"此等於是這個達成率128.3%那雖然說你109年到111年有首度的回升但是跟疫情前你的差距還是很大所以本期要請教故宮是我們的國寶為什麼我們的門票收入竟然會越來越少那你要怎麼樣去精進它呢請做說明"},{"start":11799.4,"end":11799.7,"text":"怎麼進進呢?"},{"start":11823.483,"end":11824.243,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":11838.59,"end":11863.176,"text":"一個月好我也應許給你因為在2015年故宮參觀的人數是亞洲第一名但是我們看到現在在下降觀光署我沒有看故宮你是89萬7中正紀念堂195萬奪下了冠軍所以我希望你一個月內把這個經濟方案來給本席那接下來本席要跟你討論的一個議題也就是說我們故宮有69萬間的這個館廠"},{"start":11870.798,"end":11891.805,"text":"但是我們看到只有16位的修護人員那文物跟人一樣啊文物如果生病他還是要看醫生啊他剝落啊等等這些事項但是文物如果良好他還是要保養啊對不對他還是要維護所以在這樣的一個情況之下你面對修護人員的不足的這個問題你要怎麼去處理"},{"start":11893.626,"end":11915.026,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11915.046,"end":11916.787,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":11944.645,"end":11962.978,"text":"希望人總那邊可以讓我們增加人力那你預計要增加多少人?你現在16人你預計要增加多少人?我們在目前來講的話故宮南院的話我們希望說增加兩個人因為因為也沒有要院長你太客氣了本期已經告訴你69萬的這個場館呢館場裡面的這些寶貝你現在目前16萬16人那你告訴我我只要增加兩人不夠啦"},{"start":11973.425,"end":11992.24,"text":"你去盤點好不好說明清楚我們之前的話是提出11位要增加11位啦但是現在的話就是大概總我們現在暫時總委員兩位院長你這樣滿意嗎你11個連兩層都不夠他只給你兩個你滿意嗎你實際上是這麼困難對不對這些場館如果不見了就不見了欸"},{"start":12003.626,"end":12023.439,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12025.7,"end":12039.946,"text":"請問我們現在整個結合數位科技開放資料與數位化的轉換建構數位化的教育資源這是非常的重要應用整個進行資料的AI教學運用等等"},{"start":12040.766,"end":12055.255,"text":"所以本席要請教你要怎麼維護我們的故宮在開放資料跟藝術教育服務能夠去結合因為你到了114年底你這個計畫是到明年114年為止但是本席認為似乎還是沒有辦法去完整所以一個議題要怎麼樣去結合第二個114年明年到會不會繼續有其他的方式來推動嗎請做說明"},{"start":12069.764,"end":12077.609,"text":"拜託跟委員報告,AI STEAM的教學是當前的一個趨勢故宮會持續來推動所以不會到114年就截止,會持續嗎?對,當然會持續,因為這是未來的趨勢不然很多的藝術文化者都很緊張我們不只到114年會繼續,是不是?是好,謝謝"},{"start":12090.246,"end":12102.59,"text":"謝謝楊瓊怡委員的質詢,謝謝我們現在開始處理解凍案我們今天處理的解凍案有三案我們現在請醫生員宣讀並進行討論與協商"},{"start":12105.165,"end":12128.7,"text":"第一、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証綜合規劃與推廣行銷預算凍結300萬元專案報告請查照案。二、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証文物安全管理與修復預算凍結100萬元書面報告請查照案。三、國立故宮博物院行為113年度中央政府總預算決議檢証新故宮計劃預算凍結2000萬元書面報告請查照案。修理完畢。"},{"start":12133.968,"end":12155.083,"text":"好,那我們現在一案一案來處理喔那第一案,那個在場的委員有沒有意見沒有意見好,那如果沒有意見的話那這一案我們准於動之提報院會那我們接著處理第二案那第二案是關於在113年度我們總預算當中的第四目文物安全管理與修復當時凍結100萬那現在書面報告有過來了那在場委員有沒有意見"},{"start":12162.949,"end":12183.567,"text":"故宮瓷器庫房改箱違規規劃期程從今年起到2030年已經開始分年執行本席是同意解凍那也會持續來監督只說除了文物毀損的問題之外我要提醒說故宮要關注文物竊盜的問題因為2023年8月中旬大英博物館英國大英博物館"},{"start":12184.167,"end":12187.368,"text":"事發一格星期館長引咎辭職故宮是否有文物都有確實編入到典藏記錄是否有這個能力或時間"},{"start":12200.014,"end":12201.595,"text":"主管故宮博物院主管主管主管"},{"start":12229.179,"end":12233.581,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":12258.352,"end":12277.389,"text":"目前葉言之委員說還有啦可是因為我們同仁一直清查都認為說我們只要上架的話我們就去申訴基本上來講的話他都會下架好所以就是我們會主動看只要有看到我們就會請他們下架但是他們還是會上去沒錯我知道所以要請你們持續來關注是謝謝委員是"},{"start":12278.45,"end":12280.472,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":12294.525,"end":12296.506,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":12314.918,"end":12339.09,"text":"我發現關於新故宮計畫其實我們今天還是有非常多的委員都針對新故宮計畫提出了很多很多還是不清楚的地方那希望能夠故宮能夠再做說明那甚至於還針對新故宮計畫不同的這個地方也有很多的建議那包括其實我想剛剛那個配議委員其實也很關心那也擔心說因為工程是延續的"},{"start":12339.99,"end":12340.931,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":12356.249,"end":12371.594,"text":"額,基本上來講故宮博物院的預算是一個延期性的預算,那如果是因為政府的預算也是一個大餅嘛,這個大餅的話總預算如果說他分配的比例減少的話,自然而然的話會壓縮到那個"},{"start":12373.914,"end":12397.27,"text":"這當然是,這個是基礎好不好,預算的精神基礎。所以現在我的意思是說,我們要解凍嘛,要解凍足夠充分的理由,像剛剛上面兩岸我們大家都沒有意見。但是關於新故宮計畫這件事情,你看從今天我們諮詢的委員對於新故宮計畫有這麼多的意見跟不了解的地方,那我認為是不是應該要再說明才能夠把這個兩千萬來做解凍。"},{"start":12399.111,"end":12427.632,"text":"根文報告雖然我們新故宮計畫的執行率的話一般來講的話都會超過95成那今年的話其實有時候是一個預算應用的問題像今年的話南岩的廠商的話他就要我們依照原先的規劃預撥經費那我們預撥經費的話就不夠不夠的話那有時候就是會技術上就是把它拖到明年那如果是有這個經費的話那當然我們就在預撥經費上因為你剛剛說那個不夠的部分是不夠多少錢"},{"start":12428.962,"end":12432.971,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12439.608,"end":12466.576,"text":"所以我是這樣想啦我自己是比較建議說因為呢終究我們是支持這個故宮的而且故宮整理預算不是很多但是呢我覺得錢還是要花在刀口上嘛如果我們今天要處理這個解凍案但是這麼多的委員對於新故宮計畫還是有這麼多意見是不是我用故宮是不是需要再更詳細說明我們要不要再擇期再來處理還是院長還是兩個委員"},{"start":12471.367,"end":12498.225,"text":"因為兩千萬的數目不多那基本上來講的話解凍之後這個經費還是會回到新故宮計畫裡面也不會說因為我們就把它應用到別的地方去因為它是公共工程的預算公共工程的預算的話如果是沒有解凍的話基本上來講的話就是比較對我們是不是可以再補充數目資料然後就先行解凍"},{"start":12504.205,"end":12504.305,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12524.285,"end":12526.767,"text":"請故宮今天就我們今天這麼多的委員只要有提到新故宮計畫相關的疑問跟建議的"},{"start":12550.88,"end":12578.11,"text":"我覺得是不是三日內你們回覆各委員辦公室因為這個為什麼我只給三天那事實上你們今天來這裡答詢就應該要答得出來了但是今天可能還有一些沒有準備的很周全或是問的題目的資料你們還沒有辦法準備起來那所以能不能三天內那就今天所有委員有問到新公共情話我們都詳實的給予回答那今天這個兩千萬的解凍本席就沒有意見這樣好不好院長可以嗎"},{"start":12581.141,"end":12581.961,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12598.817,"end":12623.824,"text":"好,那我們解答案處理完畢了,現在我們繼續這個質詢。接下來我們鄭振全委員、鄭振全委員、鄭振全委員不在。蔓玉珍、蔓玉珍、蔓玉珍不在。張家俊、張家俊、張家俊不在。何新淳、何新淳不在。王美惠、王美惠、王美惠不在。蘇清泉、蘇清泉不在。陳冠廷、陳冠廷不在。陳冠廷不在。林楚英、林楚英、林楚英不在。高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。"},{"start":12626.175,"end":12644.722,"text":"今天質詢登記的委員均與發言完畢關於今天會議作成如下的決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":12645.462,"end":12649.687,"text":"公務預算解凍案。厲三、業宜審查完均準與動之提報院會114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案"},{"start":12662.242,"end":12675.08,"text":"故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案相關提案請於12月12日下午2點前停出,令定期繼續審查。報告委員會今天的議程處理完畢,現在散會,謝謝各位。"},{"start":12700.216,"end":12728.053,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查11"},{"start":12729.9,"end":12754.609,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央"},{"start":12762.104,"end":12762.928,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},{"id":"16338","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16338","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d323e8eb5774d58be9b5fa2f296a93534a82e37f9ba35fd772bf81493017089cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分。（處理）（12月4日及5日二天一次會））","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:29:59+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:01:00+08:00","duration":12661,"影片長度":"03:31:01","委員發言時間":"08:29:59 - 12:01:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-2-35-20"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":1857.3440937500002,"end":1860.4997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1863.6553437500002,"end":1867.3847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1868.4309687500001,"end":1873.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1874.16846875,"end":1879.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1879.3490937500003,"end":1880.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1880.78346875,"end":1884.4790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1884.58034375,"end":1886.5884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1886.7234687500002,"end":1891.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1891.6678437500002,"end":1896.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1896.4940937500003,"end":1906.1297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1906.2984687500002,"end":1912.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1912.7615937500002,"end":1914.7865937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1915.7653437500003,"end":1921.1147187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1921.55346875,"end":1927.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1928.2865937500003,"end":1931.7797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1932.0665937500003,"end":1933.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1934.1422187500002,"end":1937.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1937.9222187500002,"end":1939.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1939.98096875,"end":1945.3809687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1946.0559687500001,"end":1949.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1951.0509687500003,"end":1954.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1955.30346875,"end":1959.2015937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1959.7078437500002,"end":1963.2178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1963.47096875,"end":1965.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1965.7997187500002,"end":1975.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1975.5703437500001,"end":1976.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1976.81909375,"end":1978.4559687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1978.7259687500002,"end":1982.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1982.9784687500003,"end":1983.7884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1986.2015937500003,"end":1990.6734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1991.2472187500002,"end":1995.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1996.8159687500001,"end":2004.5784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2007.3628437500001,"end":2011.3622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2012.3240937500002,"end":2013.4715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2014.3153437500002,"end":2015.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2016.2222187500001,"end":2017.3697187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2017.7915937500002,"end":2024.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2024.6765937500002,"end":2025.4022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2027.3765937500002,"end":2035.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2036.2865937500003,"end":2036.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2038.0584687500002,"end":2046.2090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2047.0697187500002,"end":2048.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2049.12846875,"end":2053.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2055.92909375,"end":2059.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2060.1309687499997,"end":2060.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2061.7509687500005,"end":2093.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2094.06659375,"end":2109.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2109.4228437500005,"end":2115.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2115.27846875,"end":2115.3122187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2115.3797187500004,"end":2121.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2121.25221875,"end":2130.5672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2131.14096875,"end":2147.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2148.25221875,"end":2153.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2155.35659375,"end":2160.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2163.01784375,"end":2167.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2167.4053437500006,"end":2171.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2171.5397187500002,"end":2176.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2177.2265937500006,"end":2179.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2179.6228437500004,"end":2181.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2181.8503437500003,"end":2183.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2183.82471875,"end":2189.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2189.6803437500002,"end":2194.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2194.47284375,"end":2197.9490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2198.35409375,"end":2200.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2200.5984687500004,"end":2201.9822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2202.5222187500003,"end":2204.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2204.5809687500005,"end":2207.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2208.36096875,"end":2210.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2211.0947187500005,"end":2212.1240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2212.3434687500003,"end":2216.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2216.52846875,"end":2221.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2221.1522187500004,"end":2224.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2225.2022187500006,"end":2225.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2226.07971875,"end":2227.4803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2227.68284375,"end":2234.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2234.33159375,"end":2238.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2238.76971875,"end":2242.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2243.71409375,"end":2244.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2245.18221875,"end":2246.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2246.97096875,"end":2249.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2249.9578437500004,"end":2256.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2257.0115937500004,"end":2259.7959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2260.06596875,"end":2263.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2263.5928437500006,"end":2267.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2267.3728437500004,"end":2269.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2269.7859687500004,"end":2271.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2271.7265937500006,"end":2272.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2273.61659375,"end":2278.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2278.8984687500006,"end":2282.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2282.71221875,"end":2283.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2284.33221875,"end":2286.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2286.55971875,"end":2294.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2294.6259687500005,"end":2301.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2302.1015937500006,"end":2304.9197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2305.07159375,"end":2310.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2311.65284375,"end":2315.8884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2316.15846875,"end":2317.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2317.72784375,"end":2322.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2323.4315937500005,"end":2323.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2324.37659375,"end":2330.2997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2330.7890937500006,"end":2332.8309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2333.28659375,"end":2334.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2335.51409375,"end":2336.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2337.2353437500005,"end":2339.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2339.78346875,"end":2341.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2341.3190937500003,"end":2345.8584687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2346.1453437500004,"end":2349.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2350.0603437500004,"end":2353.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2353.46909375,"end":2356.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2357.40096875,"end":2359.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2359.37534375,"end":2362.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2362.6659687500005,"end":2363.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2363.8640937500004,"end":2366.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2367.2559687500006,"end":2370.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2370.59721875,"end":2374.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2374.3603437500005,"end":2377.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2378.05596875,"end":2381.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2381.7178437500006,"end":2384.7890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2385.16034375,"end":2389.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2389.76721875,"end":2393.5303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2394.03659375,"end":2398.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2398.98096875,"end":2399.9597187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2400.1622187500006,"end":2403.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2404.1278437500005,"end":2407.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2408.54909375,"end":2414.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2414.5059687500006,"end":2415.4678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2415.7547187500004,"end":2418.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2419.23096875,"end":2420.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2420.5809687500005,"end":2424.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2425.2215937500005,"end":2431.6172187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2432.1403437500003,"end":2439.0253437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2439.3797187500004,"end":2443.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2443.49721875,"end":2446.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2447.37846875,"end":2447.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2448.1209687500004,"end":2449.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2449.40346875,"end":2451.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2451.7997187500005,"end":2454.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2455.20846875,"end":2458.5497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2458.8534687500005,"end":2463.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2463.83159375,"end":2466.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2467.20659375,"end":2468.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2468.5059687500006,"end":2469.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2469.9403437500005,"end":2472.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2472.4209687500006,"end":2476.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2477.33159375,"end":2483.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2484.31784375,"end":2488.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2489.26221875,"end":2492.1309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2492.45159375,"end":2494.4765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2494.8984687500006,"end":2498.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2498.96534375,"end":2503.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2503.72409375,"end":2506.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2506.4578437500004,"end":2507.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2507.9765937500006,"end":2511.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2511.9590937500006,"end":2517.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2517.71346875,"end":2524.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2525.35784375,"end":2530.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2530.5215937500006,"end":2535.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2536.30971875,"end":2542.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2542.46909375,"end":2545.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2545.96221875,"end":2549.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2549.5059687500006,"end":2554.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2555.0409687500005,"end":2556.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2557.6397187500006,"end":2564.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2564.33909375,"end":2566.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2566.65096875,"end":2571.9834687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2572.3884687500004,"end":2575.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2575.96596875,"end":2577.7547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2578.14284375,"end":2579.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2579.6953437500006,"end":2584.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2585.4665937500004,"end":2587.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2588.28471875,"end":2591.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2592.6553437500006,"end":2595.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2596.3678437500002,"end":2597.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2598.20721875,"end":2602.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2602.30784375,"end":2606.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2606.7965937500003,"end":2608.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2608.39971875,"end":2609.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2610.0703437500006,"end":2613.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2614.06971875,"end":2618.3897187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2618.77784375,"end":2622.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2622.86159375,"end":2625.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2625.57846875,"end":2629.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2629.61159375,"end":2633.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2634.25221875,"end":2637.1715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2637.5934687500003,"end":2638.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2639.6690937500007,"end":2645.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2645.1534687500007,"end":2646.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2646.80721875,"end":2649.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2649.4228437500005,"end":2650.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2651.02596875,"end":2655.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2656.3415937500004,"end":2658.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2658.2315937500007,"end":2659.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2660.18909375,"end":2665.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2666.51721875,"end":2671.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2671.7653437500003,"end":2673.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2673.72284375,"end":2674.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2675.59596875,"end":2678.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2678.66721875,"end":2683.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2684.8434687500003,"end":2686.5309687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2687.4590937500006,"end":2690.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2690.37846875,"end":2696.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2697.5672187500004,"end":2698.6472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2699.54159375,"end":2702.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2702.3259687500004,"end":2704.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2705.75159375,"end":2706.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2706.7809687500003,"end":2708.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2709.46409375,"end":2710.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2711.45534375,"end":2716.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2716.4334687500004,"end":2719.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2719.9772187500002,"end":2722.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2723.89221875,"end":2727.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2728.11096875,"end":2729.8828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2730.9122187500006,"end":2731.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2732.7684687500005,"end":2738.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2739.83909375,"end":2743.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2743.9059687500003,"end":2744.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2745.01971875,"end":2746.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2747.19659375,"end":2751.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2751.95534375,"end":2756.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2756.6465937500006,"end":2757.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2757.9628437500005,"end":2760.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2761.05096875,"end":2765.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2765.28659375,"end":2766.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2767.0584687500004,"end":2771.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2771.68221875,"end":2775.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2775.5128437500007,"end":2778.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2779.44471875,"end":2784.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2784.45659375,"end":2785.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2785.82346875,"end":2788.2872187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2789.51909375,"end":2791.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2792.0672187500004,"end":2793.3328437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2793.6872187500003,"end":2795.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2796.08346875,"end":2797.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2798.2265937500006,"end":2799.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2800.23471875,"end":2800.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2802.22596875,"end":2807.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2808.3347187500003,"end":2810.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2811.20346875,"end":2814.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2815.2197187500005,"end":2821.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2821.63221875,"end":2822.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2822.54346875,"end":2823.6403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2824.4840937500003,"end":2825.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2825.98596875,"end":2828.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2829.0740937500004,"end":2830.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2830.9978437500004,"end":2835.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2835.60471875,"end":2840.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2840.54909375,"end":2841.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2841.9665937500004,"end":2845.7128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2846.6747187500005,"end":2850.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2850.5222187500003,"end":2852.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2852.78346875,"end":2853.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2854.4034687500007,"end":2858.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2858.3522187500002,"end":2859.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2860.0059687500006,"end":2862.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2862.38534375,"end":2872.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2872.20659375,"end":2872.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2872.8984687500006,"end":2876.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2877.50534375,"end":2881.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2882.26409375,"end":2884.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2884.62659375,"end":2888.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2889.2840937500005,"end":2890.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2890.8534687500005,"end":2891.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2891.6972187500005,"end":2894.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2894.9372187500003,"end":2901.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2902.5984687500004,"end":2903.9990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2904.1678437500004,"end":2905.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2906.2097187500003,"end":2908.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2908.5047187500004,"end":2911.7109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2911.91346875,"end":2912.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2912.82471875,"end":2915.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2916.0309687500003,"end":2918.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2918.54534375,"end":2922.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2922.2578437500006,"end":2923.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2923.8778437500005,"end":2927.4215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2927.6240937500006,"end":2930.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2930.40846875,"end":2931.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2931.80909375,"end":2935.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2936.19659375,"end":2939.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2939.8584687500006,"end":2941.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2941.7653437500003,"end":2944.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2944.7184687500003,"end":2947.5534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2948.00909375,"end":2951.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2953.1222187500007,"end":2954.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2954.3709687500004,"end":2959.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2959.6865937500006,"end":2964.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2964.95159375,"end":2968.2928437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2968.3603437500005,"end":2976.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2977.1015937500006,"end":2980.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2980.67909375,"end":3023.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3023.8622187500005,"end":3026.7647187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6116.44221875,"end":6116.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6116.96534375,"end":6117.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6119.715968750001,"end":6119.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6119.73284375,"end":6120.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6120.036593750001,"end":6123.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6123.360968750001,"end":6123.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6123.3778437500005,"end":6124.170968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6129.638468749999,"end":6129.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6129.95909375,"end":6130.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6130.43159375,"end":6130.583468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6130.583468750001,"end":6130.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6130.60034375,"end":6136.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6132.91221875,"end":6133.249718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6135.089093750001,"end":6135.460343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6137.097218750001,"end":6139.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6139.1728437500005,"end":6144.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6140.32034375,"end":6140.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6146.02409375,"end":6146.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6146.22659375,"end":6146.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6146.935343749999,"end":6154.343468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6154.343468749999,"end":6156.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6155.895968750001,"end":6156.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6156.53721875,"end":6156.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6156.638468749999,"end":6161.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6157.22909375,"end":6158.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6158.241593750001,"end":6168.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6161.97096875,"end":6162.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6162.25784375,"end":6162.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6162.52784375,"end":6162.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":6162.84846875,"end":6162.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6170.02034375,"end":6170.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6170.86409375,"end":6170.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":6170.96534375,"end":6171.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6178.964093750001,"end":6195.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6197.3240937499995,"end":6211.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6212.0897187499995,"end":6213.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6213.28784375,"end":6266.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6266.91659375,"end":6269.009093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6269.9540937500005,"end":6271.017218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6271.776593750001,"end":6282.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6283.18409375,"end":6299.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6299.654093749999,"end":6310.8084687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6311.888468749999,"end":6312.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6312.42846875,"end":6339.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6340.10346875,"end":6432.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6432.81471875,"end":6436.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6436.071593750001,"end":6437.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6439.716593749999,"end":6444.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6444.23909375,"end":6453.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6454.85346875,"end":6457.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6457.60409375,"end":6464.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6464.72534375,"end":6473.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6473.68596875,"end":6480.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6479.77784375,"end":6480.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6481.41471875,"end":6513.089093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6513.173468750001,"end":6526.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6526.74096875,"end":6529.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6529.28909375,"end":6530.149718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6529.626593750001,"end":6531.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6532.05659375,"end":6534.739718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6535.43159375,"end":6663.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6660.49221875,"end":6660.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6663.090968750001,"end":6679.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6679.03784375,"end":6679.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6679.29096875,"end":6679.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6680.03346875,"end":6680.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6680.050343750001,"end":6686.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6686.63159375,"end":6698.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6698.96721875,"end":6702.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6700.637843750001,"end":6700.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6700.65471875,"end":6702.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6703.23659375,"end":6800.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6756.42659375,"end":6756.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6757.60784375,"end":6757.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6797.2303437499995,"end":6797.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6800.385968750001,"end":6813.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6814.32471875,"end":6815.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6816.839093750001,"end":6817.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6818.30721875,"end":6828.921593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6828.01034375,"end":6843.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6843.19784375,"end":6846.876593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6846.4715937500005,"end":6852.040343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6851.17971875,"end":6855.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6852.968468749999,"end":6853.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6853.356593750001,"end":6854.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":6854.841593749999,"end":6857.339093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6857.82846875,"end":6859.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6860.376593750001,"end":6878.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6878.02784375,"end":6888.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6888.794093750001,"end":6896.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6896.72534375,"end":6901.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6902.41221875,"end":6902.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6902.479718750001,"end":6903.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6903.795968750001,"end":6906.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6908.014718750001,"end":6908.200343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6908.50409375,"end":6909.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6909.56721875,"end":6914.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6911.845343750001,"end":6913.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6913.026593750001,"end":6913.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":6913.397843750001,"end":6913.634093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6915.28784375,"end":6915.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6916.73909375,"end":6963.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6963.9384687500005,"end":6989.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6989.9090937500005,"end":6990.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6990.21284375,"end":7012.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6990.364718750001,"end":6990.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6994.634093750001,"end":6995.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7012.31909375,"end":7014.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7014.732218749999,"end":7020.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7019.102843750001,"end":7019.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7019.11971875,"end":7019.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7019.25471875,"end":7019.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7019.35596875,"end":7019.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7019.4403437500005,"end":7019.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7020.132218750001,"end":7022.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7020.419093750001,"end":7020.8240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7021.718468750001,"end":7029.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":7029.919718749999,"end":7036.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7038.694718750001,"end":7044.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7044.972218750001,"end":7046.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7046.946593750001,"end":7047.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7048.347218750001,"end":7050.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7050.30471875,"end":7060.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7062.842843750001,"end":7073.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7065.07034375,"end":7066.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7072.79909375,"end":7073.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7073.91284375,"end":7083.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7084.442843750001,"end":7090.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7090.88909375,"end":7094.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7095.00659375,"end":7099.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7098.8709687499995,"end":7098.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7098.9384687500005,"end":7100.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7100.474093750001,"end":7100.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7102.43159375,"end":7104.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7105.13159375,"end":7107.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7105.823468750001,"end":7108.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7108.5740937499995,"end":7109.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7111.763468749999,"end":7116.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7117.669718749999,"end":7124.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7124.2509687500005,"end":7124.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7124.26784375,"end":7124.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7126.74846875,"end":7127.4403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7126.88346875,"end":7126.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7126.90034375,"end":7127.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7127.06909375,"end":7127.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7127.17034375,"end":7127.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7127.4403437500005,"end":7135.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7136.0634687500005,"end":7140.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7141.09221875,"end":7141.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7141.88534375,"end":7143.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7143.842843750001,"end":7144.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7144.720343750001,"end":7160.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7160.9540937500005,"end":7188.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7185.57471875,"end":7186.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7186.907843750001,"end":7187.430968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7187.86971875,"end":7188.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7189.10159375,"end":7201.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7201.92659375,"end":7212.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7213.350968750001,"end":7307.091593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7305.57284375,"end":7315.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7314.66846875,"end":7319.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7319.714093750001,"end":7320.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7320.085343750001,"end":7322.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7321.485968750001,"end":7321.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7322.36346875,"end":7324.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7324.23659375,"end":7327.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7327.729718750001,"end":7335.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7334.73284375,"end":7336.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7336.200968749999,"end":7357.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7360.65284375,"end":7361.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7361.378468750001,"end":7361.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7361.78346875,"end":7361.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7362.30659375,"end":7362.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7362.71159375,"end":7366.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7365.9178437499995,"end":7366.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7367.13284375,"end":7372.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7369.444718750001,"end":7369.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7369.90034375,"end":7369.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7372.36409375,"end":7372.397843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7372.397843750001,"end":7373.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7373.03909375,"end":7377.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7374.186593750001,"end":7374.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7376.17784375,"end":7379.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7378.911593750001,"end":7454.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7382.96159375,"end":7383.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7441.4334687499995,"end":7441.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7454.03909375,"end":7456.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7454.899718750001,"end":7455.085343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7457.144093750001,"end":7458.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7458.6122187500005,"end":7458.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7458.62909375,"end":7485.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7485.7978437500005,"end":7485.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7485.983468750001,"end":7499.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7498.8084687499995,"end":7509.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7502.21721875,"end":7502.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7506.48659375,"end":7509.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7509.557843750001,"end":7516.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7513.28721875,"end":7516.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7517.624093750001,"end":7517.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7518.11346875,"end":7524.694718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7523.429093750001,"end":7531.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7531.309718750001,"end":7551.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7553.247218750001,"end":7565.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7565.02596875,"end":7565.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7565.144093750001,"end":7565.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7568.755343750001,"end":7570.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7570.64534375,"end":7570.729718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7570.729718750001,"end":7571.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7572.5184687500005,"end":7573.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7573.51409375,"end":7574.189093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7574.54346875,"end":7586.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7586.91284375,"end":7587.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7587.216593749999,"end":7587.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7587.925343750001,"end":7589.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7591.215968750001,"end":7591.2665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7591.2665937500005,"end":7591.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7591.97534375,"end":7592.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7592.02596875,"end":7592.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7592.987843750001,"end":7593.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7593.89909375,"end":7594.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7594.675343750001,"end":7596.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7595.26596875,"end":7595.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7596.80159375,"end":7613.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7614.554093750001,"end":7618.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7619.093468750001,"end":7624.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7625.30346875,"end":7637.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7637.97659375,"end":7670.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7670.950343750001,"end":7676.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7676.16471875,"end":7676.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7676.18159375,"end":7678.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7678.020968750001,"end":7678.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7679.08409375,"end":7682.948468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7680.11346875,"end":7680.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7682.49284375,"end":7719.314093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7719.314093750001,"end":7724.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7722.35159375,"end":7722.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7723.819718750001,"end":7729.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7729.1522187499995,"end":7729.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7729.65846875,"end":7731.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7731.43034375,"end":7737.370343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":7737.48846875,"end":7737.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7740.47534375,"end":7743.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7741.75784375,"end":7741.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7741.79159375,"end":7742.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7744.05284375,"end":7744.592843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7745.234093750001,"end":7752.270968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7748.0184687500005,"end":7748.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7749.43596875,"end":7754.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7753.13159375,"end":7756.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7755.139718750001,"end":7783.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7761.653468750001,"end":7763.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7774.107218749999,"end":7774.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":7774.3603437500005,"end":7774.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":7774.41096875,"end":7774.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7783.202843750001,"end":7792.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7783.52346875,"end":7785.177218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7792.028468750001,"end":7798.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7798.66034375,"end":7815.0965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7815.450968749999,"end":7822.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7822.97721875,"end":7824.360968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7824.833468750001,"end":7827.179093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7827.66846875,"end":7830.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7830.030968750001,"end":7831.212218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7832.02221875,"end":7842.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7843.260968750001,"end":7844.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7843.294718749999,"end":7843.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7843.46346875,"end":7843.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7845.06659375,"end":7848.829718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7849.13346875,"end":7859.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":7859.62971875,"end":7891.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7890.42659375,"end":7890.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7891.540343750001,"end":7901.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7902.57659375,"end":7925.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7925.30721875,"end":7925.340968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7927.33221875,"end":7945.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7945.388468749999,"end":7945.489718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7945.75971875,"end":7945.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7945.962218750001,"end":7946.856593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7946.87346875,"end":8006.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8006.72909375,"end":8015.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8016.58409375,"end":8059.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8059.952843750001,"end":8063.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8064.6103437500005,"end":8139.045968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8139.045968750001,"end":8140.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8140.4803437499995,"end":8140.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8140.581593750001,"end":8140.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8140.9697187500005,"end":8145.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8146.116593750001,"end":8146.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8147.2303437499995,"end":8164.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8164.79721875,"end":8167.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8167.51409375,"end":8172.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8173.825343750001,"end":8178.077843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8178.38159375,"end":8180.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8181.19971875,"end":8183.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8184.30471875,"end":8194.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8194.39596875,"end":8201.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8199.00284375,"end":8199.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8203.137218750002,"end":8207.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8207.81159375,"end":8212.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8213.38034375,"end":8214.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8214.527843750002,"end":8217.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8217.278468750003,"end":8229.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8229.192218750002,"end":8231.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8231.571593749999,"end":8235.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8236.262843750003,"end":8243.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8244.008468750002,"end":8245.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8244.632843750001,"end":8280.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8280.05346875,"end":8288.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8281.53846875,"end":8282.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8282.63534375,"end":8282.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8288.558468750001,"end":8291.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8292.01784375,"end":8296.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8296.72596875,"end":8297.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8298.008468750002,"end":8298.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8299.122218750003,"end":8300.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8300.60721875,"end":8307.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8307.52596875,"end":8321.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8311.79534375,"end":8312.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8321.49846875,"end":8321.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8321.59971875,"end":8356.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8321.65034375,"end":8321.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8356.024718750003,"end":8356.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8356.919093750003,"end":8357.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8357.05409375,"end":8358.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8358.977843750003,"end":8363.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8363.85471875,"end":8364.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8364.985343750002,"end":8365.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8365.660343750002,"end":8370.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8370.60471875,"end":8374.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8375.32971875,"end":8381.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8381.539718750002,"end":8385.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8385.79221875,"end":8390.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8390.770343750002,"end":8391.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8392.15409375,"end":8395.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8395.714718750001,"end":8396.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8396.457218750002,"end":8404.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":8404.844093750002,"end":8434.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8434.527218750001,"end":8507.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8506.95471875,"end":8506.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8507.02221875,"end":8507.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8507.24159375,"end":8508.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8508.64221875,"end":8509.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8508.743468750003,"end":8508.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8508.96284375,"end":8509.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8509.11471875,"end":8509.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8510.110343750002,"end":8516.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8516.18534375,"end":8519.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8519.56034375,"end":8532.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8532.300968750002,"end":8537.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8537.61659375,"end":8540.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8540.02971875,"end":8543.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8541.97034375,"end":8543.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8543.370968750001,"end":8543.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8543.421593750001,"end":8544.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8544.09659375,"end":8544.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8544.34971875,"end":8544.906593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8544.906593750002,"end":8544.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8544.94034375,"end":8546.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8546.47596875,"end":8548.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8547.50534375,"end":8548.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8548.855343750001,"end":8549.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8549.09159375,"end":8554.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8553.765968750002,"end":8553.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8554.862843750001,"end":8559.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8558.71034375,"end":8558.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8559.368468750003,"end":8559.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8560.988468750002,"end":8561.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8562.65909375,"end":8567.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8567.62034375,"end":8568.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8568.41346875,"end":8570.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8570.92784375,"end":8583.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8583.145343750002,"end":8583.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.17909375,"end":8583.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8583.195968750002,"end":8585.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8583.68534375,"end":8585.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8585.06909375,"end":8585.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8585.27159375,"end":8585.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8585.28846875,"end":8585.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8585.33909375,"end":8585.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8585.37284375,"end":8594.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8585.96346875,"end":8585.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8586.23346875,"end":8586.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8590.23284375,"end":8590.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8590.43534375,"end":8590.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8590.469093750002,"end":8590.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8590.70534375,"end":8591.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8593.38846875,"end":8595.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8594.940968750001,"end":8596.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8595.97034375,"end":8597.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8596.695968750002,"end":8598.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8598.231593750003,"end":8625.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8625.02909375,"end":8625.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8625.78846875,"end":8625.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8626.36221875,"end":8626.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8626.379093750002,"end":8639.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8639.47409375,"end":8641.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8641.769093750001,"end":8641.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8641.87034375,"end":8645.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8646.257843750001,"end":8657.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8658.10409375,"end":8663.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8664.22971875,"end":8664.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8665.191593750002,"end":8665.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8666.153468750003,"end":8704.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8673.88221875,"end":8674.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8674.35471875,"end":8674.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8674.65846875,"end":8674.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8674.92846875,"end":8675.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8675.50221875,"end":8675.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8688.192218750002,"end":8689.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8704.40909375,"end":8705.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8705.742218750001,"end":8705.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8706.214718750001,"end":8709.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8706.83909375,"end":8708.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8709.640343750001,"end":8713.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8711.98596875,"end":8713.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8713.36971875,"end":8713.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8713.605968750002,"end":8713.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8713.977218750002,"end":8714.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8714.16284375,"end":8729.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8714.280968750001,"end":8715.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8728.523468750001,"end":8735.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8730.329093750002,"end":8730.750968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8735.425343750001,"end":8737.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8738.78346875,"end":8739.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8741.972843750002,"end":8750.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8751.64221875,"end":8756.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8758.08846875,"end":8795.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8794.25159375,"end":8794.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8794.977218750002,"end":8795.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8795.16284375,"end":8795.230343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8796.074093750001,"end":8796.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8796.715343750002,"end":8796.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8796.79971875,"end":8796.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8796.85034375,"end":8796.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":8796.884093750003,"end":8797.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8798.90909375,"end":8814.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8815.09221875,"end":8818.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8818.51784375,"end":8819.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8819.699093750001,"end":8820.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8820.239093750002,"end":8820.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8821.977218750002,"end":8823.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8823.462218750003,"end":8834.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8830.262843750003,"end":8836.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8835.797843750002,"end":8848.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8847.340343750002,"end":8848.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8848.72409375,"end":8853.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8853.415343750003,"end":8874.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8875.31909375,"end":8875.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8876.41596875,"end":8877.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8877.95159375,"end":8880.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8880.85409375,"end":8881.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8881.12409375,"end":8894.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8890.65846875,"end":8890.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8890.675343750001,"end":8893.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8894.910968750002,"end":8895.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8896.29471875,"end":8899.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":8898.37034375,"end":8900.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8900.294093750003,"end":8912.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8912.039093750001,"end":8916.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8917.33784375,"end":8918.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8917.86096875,"end":8927.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8927.327843750001,"end":8949.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8949.906593750002,"end":8961.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8962.47846875,"end":8970.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8971.472843750002,"end":8972.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8974.965968750003,"end":8976.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8976.97409375,"end":8977.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8978.13846875,"end":8978.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8979.167843750001,"end":8988.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8991.31784375,"end":8992.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8993.089718750001,"end":8995.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8997.22409375,"end":8997.257843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8997.257843750001,"end":8998.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8998.624718750001,"end":8998.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8998.87784375,"end":8999.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8999.02971875,"end":8999.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8999.637218750002,"end":9000.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8999.789093750001,"end":9002.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9002.13471875,"end":9007.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9008.175968750002,"end":9011.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9011.95596875,"end":9020.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9020.039093750001,"end":9030.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9030.636593750001,"end":9031.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9031.93596875,"end":9037.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9039.22596875,"end":9040.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9041.95971875,"end":9041.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9041.976593750001,"end":9042.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9042.550343750001,"end":9043.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9043.140968750002,"end":9044.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9044.81159375,"end":9108.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9107.637218750002,"end":9125.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9123.06096875,"end":9132.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9130.70534375,"end":9134.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9134.70471875,"end":9135.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9135.430343750002,"end":9187.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9187.35471875,"end":9190.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9190.999718750001,"end":9205.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9194.61096875,"end":9194.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9194.66159375,"end":9195.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9195.03284375,"end":9197.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9197.395343750002,"end":9197.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9197.445968750002,"end":9197.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9203.031593750002,"end":9223.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9223.73721875,"end":9229.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9230.352218750002,"end":9242.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9241.844093750002,"end":9242.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9242.60346875,"end":9253.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9243.34596875,"end":9244.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9253.94346875,"end":9274.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9273.51846875,"end":9274.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9274.868468750003,"end":9274.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9274.88534375,"end":9274.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9274.902218750001,"end":9274.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":9275.796593750001,"end":9275.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9275.813468750002,"end":9276.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9277.332218750002,"end":9279.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9280.335968750001,"end":9291.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9294.780968750001,"end":9302.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9302.391593750002,"end":9303.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9305.969093750002,"end":9307.352843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9312.53346875,"end":9312.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9312.550343750001,"end":9313.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9313.90034375,"end":9318.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9320.312843750002,"end":9320.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9320.430968750003,"end":9321.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9320.532218750002,"end":9320.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9322.152218750001,"end":9322.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9322.962218750003,"end":9324.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9323.535968750002,"end":9323.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9323.67096875,"end":9323.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9323.70471875,"end":9343.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9324.801593750002,"end":9324.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9325.999718750001,"end":9326.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9342.402218750001,"end":9342.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9343.70159375,"end":9361.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9362.348468750002,"end":9365.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9366.044093750003,"end":9367.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9367.02284375,"end":9367.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9368.305343750002,"end":9399.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9399.92909375,"end":9469.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9469.977218750002,"end":9493.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9492.809093750002,"end":9494.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9497.93909375,"end":9503.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9503.42346875,"end":9508.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9508.55346875,"end":9519.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9520.332218750002,"end":9523.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9523.437218750001,"end":9527.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9527.26784375,"end":9529.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9529.54596875,"end":9538.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9538.82721875,"end":9541.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9543.062843750002,"end":9547.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9544.73346875,"end":9544.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9544.81784375,"end":9544.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9544.868468750003,"end":9544.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9544.902218750001,"end":9544.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9545.745968750001,"end":9545.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9545.77971875,"end":9545.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9545.796593750001,"end":9545.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9545.813468750002,"end":9546.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9546.15096875,"end":9546.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9546.77534375,"end":9549.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9548.395343750002,"end":9549.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9550.015343750001,"end":9561.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9551.550968750002,"end":9552.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9557.96346875,"end":9558.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9559.43159375,"end":9565.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9562.75596875,"end":9565.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9566.33346875,"end":9567.210968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9567.109718750002,"end":9570.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9571.76721875,"end":9572.290343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9573.20159375,"end":9612.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9576.00284375,"end":9577.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9612.402218750001,"end":9615.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9616.148468750001,"end":9622.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9617.32971875,"end":9618.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9623.067218750002,"end":9631.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9631.84221875,"end":9634.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9635.80784375,"end":9637.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9636.70221875,"end":9639.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9639.63846875,"end":9648.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9642.777218750001,"end":9643.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9643.03034375,"end":9643.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9643.60409375,"end":9643.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9643.77284375,"end":9644.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9648.59909375,"end":9656.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9656.19284375,"end":9661.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9661.54221875,"end":9665.406593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9665.49096875,"end":9673.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9674.046593750001,"end":9686.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9686.618468750003,"end":9688.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9686.753468750001,"end":9690.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9688.187843750002,"end":9688.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9688.22159375,"end":9690.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9691.15784375,"end":9717.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9695.477843750003,"end":9696.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9716.352218750002,"end":9721.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9721.54971875,"end":9721.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9721.58346875,"end":9732.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9727.962218750003,"end":9728.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9731.067218750002,"end":9732.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9732.51846875,"end":9735.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9734.374718750001,"end":9736.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9736.500968750002,"end":9737.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9737.83409375,"end":9738.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9738.37409375,"end":9742.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9738.47534375,"end":9738.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9742.05284375,"end":9744.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9742.49159375,"end":9742.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9745.10721875,"end":9745.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9745.140968750002,"end":9759.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9753.274718750003,"end":9754.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9757.274093750002,"end":9761.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9760.058468750001,"end":9762.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9762.03284375,"end":9768.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9768.023468750001,"end":9768.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9768.47909375,"end":9780.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9780.730343750001,"end":9781.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9782.29971875,"end":9783.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9783.97034375,"end":9793.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9793.859093750001,"end":9799.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9796.879718750002,"end":9797.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9799.07346875,"end":9812.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9807.004718750002,"end":9807.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9812.016593750002,"end":9812.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":9812.03346875,"end":9812.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9812.640968750002,"end":9829.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9828.840968750003,"end":9830.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9830.089718750001,"end":9834.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9832.97534375,"end":9835.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9835.28721875,"end":9835.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9835.894718750002,"end":9838.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9836.28284375,"end":9844.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9840.737843750001,"end":9843.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9844.56846875,"end":9863.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9845.715968750003,"end":9846.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9863.02971875,"end":9864.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9865.44284375,"end":9871.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9871.332218750002,"end":9871.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9871.821593750003,"end":9871.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9871.83846875,"end":9872.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9872.024093750002,"end":9872.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9872.73284375,"end":9872.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9872.969093750002,"end":9878.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9880.782218750002,"end":9880.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9880.832843750002,"end":9881.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9881.153468750003,"end":9882.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":9882.38534375,"end":9883.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9883.043468750002,"end":9893.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9893.03346875,"end":9894.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9895.125968750002,"end":9904.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9905.16659375,"end":9910.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9910.313468750002,"end":9914.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9914.042843750001,"end":9914.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9914.532218750002,"end":9947.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9947.337218750003,"end":9949.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9947.52284375,"end":9947.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9949.83471875,"end":9953.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9953.969093750002,"end":9954.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9955.79159375,"end":9963.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9962.59221875,"end":9968.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9963.90846875,"end":9964.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9966.59159375,"end":9966.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9967.90784375,"end":9967.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9967.92471875,"end":9992.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9991.043468750002,"end":10010.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":9994.671593750001,"end":9995.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10005.45471875,"end":10005.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10005.539093750001,"end":10005.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10010.51721875,"end":10013.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10012.356593750003,"end":10030.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10020.18659375,"end":10020.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10020.54096875,"end":10020.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":10021.722218750001,"end":10023.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10024.945343750001,"end":10026.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10030.969718750002,"end":10036.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10036.977218750002,"end":10039.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10037.331593750001,"end":10046.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10039.761593750001,"end":10039.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10046.76471875,"end":10047.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10047.60846875,"end":10048.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10048.587218750003,"end":10049.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10050.105968750002,"end":10050.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10050.98346875,"end":10052.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10051.641593750002,"end":10060.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10053.14346875,"end":10053.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10053.17721875,"end":10053.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10053.531593750002,"end":10054.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10057.969718750002,"end":10063.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10062.914093750001,"end":10064.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10063.875968750002,"end":10068.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10065.25971875,"end":10066.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10067.976593750001,"end":10073.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10069.664093750001,"end":10070.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10072.02659375,"end":10075.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10074.81096875,"end":10081.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10078.219718750002,"end":10080.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10081.493468750003,"end":10090.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10090.032218750002,"end":10102.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10101.38909375,"end":10107.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10102.85721875,"end":10103.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10107.750968750002,"end":10109.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10111.058468750001,"end":10111.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10111.09221875,"end":10124.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10124.035343750002,"end":10124.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10124.49096875,"end":10124.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10126.49909375,"end":10128.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10128.034718750001,"end":10128.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10128.50721875,"end":10128.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10128.524093750002,"end":10128.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10129.266593750002,"end":10145.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10145.027843750002,"end":10146.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10146.69846875,"end":10146.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10146.78284375,"end":10166.222843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":10168.61909375,"end":10179.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10179.098468750002,"end":10179.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10179.11534375,"end":10179.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10180.60034375,"end":10183.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10182.54096875,"end":10182.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10183.03034375,"end":10185.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10185.61221875,"end":10189.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10189.67909375,"end":10191.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10190.640968750002,"end":10195.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10191.704093750002,"end":10192.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10192.024718750003,"end":10192.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10195.14659375,"end":10200.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10198.25159375,"end":10198.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10202.284718750001,"end":10203.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10202.993468750003,"end":10203.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10204.461593750002,"end":10207.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10205.74409375,"end":10209.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10209.81096875,"end":10219.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10219.81784375,"end":10223.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10223.024093750002,"end":10224.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10225.69034375,"end":10238.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10238.75159375,"end":10254.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10255.00221875,"end":10336.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10334.129093750002,"end":10337.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10336.27221875,"end":10336.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10338.719093750002,"end":10338.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10338.972218750001,"end":10339.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10338.972218750001,"end":10339.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10339.00596875,"end":10342.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10342.85346875,"end":10345.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10344.473468750002,"end":10354.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10346.86971875,"end":10347.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10350.312218750001,"end":10385.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10385.024093750002,"end":10405.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10404.801593750002,"end":10405.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10405.51034375,"end":10496.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10497.47909375,"end":10500.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10501.79909375,"end":10504.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10504.70159375,"end":10555.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10555.883468750002,"end":10557.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10558.60034375,"end":10564.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10564.995968750001,"end":10567.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10567.847843750002,"end":10570.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10571.18909375,"end":10603.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10603.11659375,"end":10603.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10604.399093750002,"end":10639.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10640.562218750001,"end":10686.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10686.563468750002,"end":10748.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10703.99534375,"end":10704.855968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10747.667843750001,"end":10747.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10749.152843750002,"end":10751.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10752.56159375,"end":10770.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10770.972218750001,"end":10777.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10777.249718750001,"end":10785.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10781.50221875,"end":10785.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10785.45096875,"end":10788.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10785.737843750001,"end":10787.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10787.83034375,"end":10797.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10795.05284375,"end":10795.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10795.06971875,"end":10795.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10795.727843750003,"end":10809.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10809.83534375,"end":10816.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10816.26471875,"end":10817.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10817.699093750001,"end":10821.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10821.37784375,"end":10825.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10823.47034375,"end":10823.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10826.86221875,"end":10828.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10828.60034375,"end":10830.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10829.680343750002,"end":10830.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10830.996593750002,"end":10831.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10831.637843750003,"end":10831.722218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10831.90784375,"end":10846.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10834.28721875,"end":10834.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10835.92409375,"end":10836.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10836.312218750001,"end":10836.329093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10840.649093750002,"end":10840.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10840.66596875,"end":10841.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10844.175968750002,"end":10844.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10845.222218750001,"end":10852.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10850.774093750002,"end":10855.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10853.74409375,"end":10855.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10855.735343750002,"end":10862.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10857.996593750002,"end":10858.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10859.059718750003,"end":10891.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.489093750002,"end":10865.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10865.50596875,"end":10865.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.52284375,"end":10865.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10865.691593750002,"end":10865.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.708468750003,"end":10865.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10865.72534375,"end":10865.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10865.792843750001,"end":10866.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10866.24846875,"end":10866.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10866.282218750002,"end":10866.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10867.14284375,"end":10867.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10867.159718750001,"end":10867.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10867.19346875,"end":10867.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10867.51409375,"end":10867.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10868.89784375,"end":10870.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10889.856593750003,"end":10890.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10891.054718750001,"end":10894.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10894.800968750002,"end":10906.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10902.968468750001,"end":10933.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10906.17471875,"end":10906.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10907.27159375,"end":10907.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10907.28846875,"end":10907.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10907.59221875,"end":10907.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10927.234718750002,"end":10928.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10929.411593750003,"end":10938.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":10933.15784375,"end":10933.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10939.23284375,"end":10943.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10940.32971875,"end":10940.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10940.464718750001,"end":10940.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10940.81909375,"end":10940.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10941.39284375,"end":10941.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10941.49409375,"end":10942.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10942.03409375,"end":10942.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10942.118468750003,"end":10945.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10943.97471875,"end":10946.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":10945.78034375,"end":10945.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10946.65784375,"end":10950.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10950.04971875,"end":10950.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10950.977843750003,"end":10952.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10951.09596875,"end":10952.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":10954.16721875,"end":10983.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10980.69471875,"end":10980.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10981.487843750001,"end":10981.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10982.48346875,"end":10983.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10983.47909375,"end":10983.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10983.78284375,"end":10994.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10993.992218750001,"end":10995.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10995.46034375,"end":11009.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11011.74471875,"end":11013.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11013.21284375,"end":11015.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11016.047843750002,"end":11016.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11016.840968750003,"end":11019.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11020.637843750003,"end":11021.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11021.49846875,"end":11022.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11024.18159375,"end":11024.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11024.87346875,"end":11046.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11047.097843750002,"end":11048.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11048.954093750002,"end":11052.312218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11049.477218750002,"end":11050.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11052.582218750002,"end":11054.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11054.016593750002,"end":11060.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11054.65784375,"end":11055.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11058.859718750002,"end":11058.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11061.27284375,"end":11063.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11063.078468750002,"end":11066.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11064.344093750002,"end":11066.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11067.11159375,"end":11071.313468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11071.49909375,"end":11072.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11073.574718750002,"end":11081.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11081.539718750002,"end":11087.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11087.58096875,"end":11089.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11088.137843750003,"end":11094.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11094.73596875,"end":11115.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11115.930968750003,"end":11179.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11179.566593750002,"end":11182.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11181.08534375,"end":11181.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11181.11909375,"end":11182.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11182.114718750003,"end":11183.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11182.33409375,"end":11182.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11183.363468750002,"end":11183.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11184.29159375,"end":11198.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11198.73659375,"end":11204.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11204.929718750001,"end":11218.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11217.585968750001,"end":11219.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":11218.530968750001,"end":11228.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11227.52534375,"end":11227.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11227.57596875,"end":11227.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11227.710968750001,"end":11254.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11228.031593750002,"end":11229.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11255.453468750002,"end":11261.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11258.609093750001,"end":11259.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11261.528468750003,"end":11280.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11280.27659375,"end":11281.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11281.255343750003,"end":11282.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11281.62659375,"end":11284.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11282.149718750003,"end":11282.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11283.921593750001,"end":11288.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11285.254718750002,"end":11285.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11286.672218750002,"end":11287.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11288.207843750002,"end":11288.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11288.66346875,"end":11288.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11288.984093750001,"end":11290.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11290.01346875,"end":11291.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11290.367843750002,"end":11299.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11299.497218750003,"end":11302.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11303.26034375,"end":11312.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11318.481593750003,"end":11320.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11320.40534375,"end":11324.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11320.72596875,"end":11321.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11325.19784375,"end":11327.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11325.265343750001,"end":11327.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11327.94846875,"end":11329.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11329.31534375,"end":11329.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11329.956593750001,"end":11332.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11332.859093750001,"end":11333.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11334.90096875,"end":11340.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11340.402218750001,"end":11340.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11340.48659375,"end":11350.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11340.520343750002,"end":11340.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11340.63846875,"end":11340.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11340.97596875,"end":11341.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11341.39784375,"end":11341.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11341.465343750002,"end":11341.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11343.22034375,"end":11356.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11355.62346875,"end":11356.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11356.51784375,"end":11356.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11356.534718750001,"end":11359.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11358.660968750002,"end":11372.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11362.289093750001,"end":11363.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11364.128468750001,"end":11365.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11365.039718750002,"end":11365.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11371.50284375,"end":11371.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11371.87409375,"end":11372.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11372.71784375,"end":11375.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":11373.426593750002,"end":11374.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11374.050968750002,"end":11374.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11374.23659375,"end":11374.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11375.02971875,"end":11377.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11377.88159375,"end":11377.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11377.965968750003,"end":11378.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11378.03346875,"end":11380.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11378.18534375,"end":11387.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11381.222843750002,"end":11381.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11381.30721875,"end":11381.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11381.35784375,"end":11381.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11382.083468750003,"end":11382.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11382.539093750001,"end":11382.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11382.84284375,"end":11383.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11383.51784375,"end":11383.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11385.711593750002,"end":11385.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11387.145968750003,"end":11387.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11387.280968750001,"end":11390.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11391.48284375,"end":11391.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11391.921593750001,"end":11394.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11394.250343750002,"end":11395.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11394.95909375,"end":11396.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11395.161593750003,"end":11395.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11395.347218750001,"end":11395.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11395.39784375,"end":11399.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":11397.304718750001,"end":11402.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11399.380343750003,"end":11399.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11400.004718750002,"end":11400.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11400.07221875,"end":11400.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11400.17346875,"end":11400.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11400.44346875,"end":11401.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":11401.38846875,"end":11401.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":11401.962218750003,"end":11402.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11887.675343750001,"end":11889.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11889.71721875,"end":11890.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11891.30346875,"end":11896.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11896.68659375,"end":11905.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11908.634093750003,"end":11908.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11908.97159375,"end":11909.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11909.34284375,"end":11911.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11912.54909375,"end":11913.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11914.50659375,"end":11917.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11917.746593750002,"end":11918.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11919.46784375,"end":11922.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":11922.45471875,"end":11930.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11927.129093750002,"end":11948.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11948.03721875,"end":11949.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11950.332218750002,"end":11966.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11954.95596875,"end":11955.040343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":11955.040343750003,"end":11955.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11955.074093750001,"end":11955.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11966.262218750002,"end":11966.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11966.532218750002,"end":12019.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":11966.734718750002,"end":11966.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12019.047218750002,"end":12024.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12024.531593750002,"end":12027.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12025.949093750001,"end":12029.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12028.88534375,"end":12030.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12030.45471875,"end":12035.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12032.125343750002,"end":12039.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12036.664718750002,"end":12037.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12038.250968750002,"end":12040.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12039.887843750003,"end":12040.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12040.410968750002,"end":12042.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12042.60471875,"end":12053.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12053.15159375,"end":12053.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12055.159718750001,"end":12068.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12068.28846875,"end":12075.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12075.93284375,"end":12082.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12082.73346875,"end":12083.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12083.070968750002,"end":12083.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12084.42096875,"end":12085.011593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12085.180343750002,"end":12087.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12087.981593750003,"end":12088.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12088.63971875,"end":12088.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12088.67346875,"end":12094.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12091.761593750001,"end":12101.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12096.047843750002,"end":12096.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12101.02596875,"end":12120.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12120.550343750001,"end":12121.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12121.815968750001,"end":12129.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12129.44346875,"end":12133.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12133.223468750002,"end":12133.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12133.51034375,"end":12159.160343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":12133.527218750001,"end":12133.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12160.61159375,"end":12160.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12161.894093750001,"end":12164.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12166.332218750002,"end":12171.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12168.660968750002,"end":12169.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12173.132843750001,"end":12180.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12181.13159375,"end":12185.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12185.29971875,"end":12189.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12189.974093750003,"end":12191.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12193.230968750002,"end":12199.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12199.238468750002,"end":12202.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12202.96784375,"end":12207.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12207.96284375,"end":12208.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12208.047218750002,"end":12208.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12208.18221875,"end":12210.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12210.96659375,"end":12212.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12213.649718750003,"end":12217.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12217.71659375,"end":12223.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12223.84221875,"end":12228.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12226.660343750002,"end":12238.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12238.422218750002,"end":12247.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12248.344718750002,"end":12249.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12249.340343750002,"end":12251.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12250.605968750002,"end":12251.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12251.348468750002,"end":12255.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12256.07346875,"end":12257.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12258.33471875,"end":12260.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12260.039093750001,"end":12260.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12261.102218750002,"end":12261.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12261.11909375,"end":12278.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12261.92909375,"end":12262.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12278.972843750002,"end":12280.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12281.183468750001,"end":12283.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12284.052218750003,"end":12287.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12288.372218750003,"end":12289.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12289.90784375,"end":12307.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12308.21721875,"end":12309.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12309.044093750003,"end":12336.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12309.837218750003,"end":12309.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12309.870968750001,"end":12310.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12310.191593750002,"end":12310.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12336.28034375,"end":12337.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12337.765343750001,"end":12367.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12352.598468750002,"end":12353.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12367.97159375,"end":12387.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12387.833468750003,"end":12410.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12398.71784375,"end":12398.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12398.97096875,"end":12399.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12410.327843750001,"end":12415.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12415.356593750003,"end":12416.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12415.69409375,"end":12415.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12416.53784375,"end":12420.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12420.63846875,"end":12427.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12427.65846875,"end":12428.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12427.962218750003,"end":12433.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12433.395968750003,"end":12433.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12435.30284375,"end":12438.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12439.909718750001,"end":12448.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12449.39346875,"end":12450.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12450.996593750002,"end":12452.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12452.852843750003,"end":12469.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12469.457843750002,"end":12485.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12488.745968750001,"end":12491.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12492.340343750002,"end":12495.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12496.89659375,"end":12504.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12509.28284375,"end":12517.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12520.082843750002,"end":12521.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12522.36096875,"end":12532.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12534.93284375,"end":12536.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12537.39659375,"end":12538.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12542.83034375,"end":12543.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12544.66971875,"end":12546.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12551.976593750001,"end":12552.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12552.11159375,"end":12552.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12554.035343750002,"end":12559.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12560.582843750002,"end":12563.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12563.99159375,"end":12566.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12568.480343750001,"end":12574.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12575.83784375,"end":12585.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12585.38909375,"end":12589.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12589.43909375,"end":12592.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12593.910968750002,"end":12602.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12602.43284375,"end":12604.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12604.829093750002,"end":12604.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12604.84596875,"end":12604.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12604.879718750002,"end":12604.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12604.96409375,"end":12605.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12605.402843750002,"end":12606.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12607.259093750003,"end":12609.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12610.80284375,"end":12611.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12611.950343750003,"end":12613.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12613.789718750002,"end":12636.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12646.020968750003,"end":12646.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12646.35846875,"end":12646.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12646.965968750003,"end":12647.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12647.286593750003,"end":12647.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12647.30346875,"end":12648.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12648.332843750002,"end":12648.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12648.36659375,"end":12649.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12649.379093750002,"end":12652.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12649.868468750003,"end":12650.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12652.652843750002,"end":12654.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12654.67784375,"end":12657.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":12657.85034375,"end":12658.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12658.37346875,"end":12658.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12658.96409375,"end":12661.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12661.22534375,"end":12661.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12661.79909375,"end":12666.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12666.91221875,"end":12667.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12667.620968750001,"end":12671.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12675.585968750001,"end":12676.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12676.125968750002,"end":12677.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12680.074718750002,"end":12681.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12681.880343750003,"end":12681.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12689.727218750002,"end":12689.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12689.96346875,"end":12690.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12690.081593750001,"end":12690.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12690.38534375,"end":12691.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12691.97159375,"end":12691.988468750002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1857.506,"end":1866.611,"text":"報告委員會初期委員8人已足法定人數好我們開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1868.496,"end":1893.24,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月28日星期四上午9時3分至下午1時29分地點紅樓山寧一會議室出席委員盧美琳等9人 列席委員賴士寶等16人請教委員黃仁列席人員外交部部長林佳龍及所屬人員行政院主計總處專門委員張嘉宇經濟部人事處"},{"start":1896.822,"end":1914.224,"text":"專門委員紀嘉琳教育部國際及兩岸教育師檢任一等教育秘書曾進文化部文化交流師專門委員梁玉芳勞動部綜合規劃師專門委員李永裕僑務委員會人事事主任楊志傑等主席林州級委員易軍"},{"start":1915.899,"end":1945.219,"text":"報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項依審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分謹詢答外交部部長林佳龍報告委員盧美林等16人質詢均由外交部部長林佳龍拉丁美洲及加勒比海斯副司長張志信北美司司長王良玉國際組織司司長孫簡元及人事處處長黃立林等及其答覆"},{"start":1946.28,"end":1949.764,"text":"決議一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束"},{"start":1951.089,"end":1974.627,"text":"二委員所提口頭及書面諮詢未及答覆或要求提供之資訊請外交部與二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員盧美琳黃仁及王洪威等三人所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報是本案令則其繼續審查而繼續處理院會交付外交部113年度中央政府總預算決議18對外資捐助預算凍結100萬元案"},{"start":1979.306,"end":2004.218,"text":"決議本案處理完均同意動資並提抱怨會宣讀完畢在場委員對於上一次的會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正的地方沒有的話我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀討論事項討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分宣讀完畢"},{"start":2007.561,"end":2034.439,"text":"我們先介紹在場的委員陳永康委員徐巧欣委員羅美玲委員林楚瑩委員本席代表外交委員會非常歡迎王逸川委員加入本會要不要給你掌聲鼓勵歡迎今天是你的第一天上班那接下來我介紹一下今天列席的官員"},{"start":2038.12,"end":2057.789,"text":"根據本會議及相關法令規定我們有關情報單位我們只介紹主管管其餘的名職隱去這一段是跟新同學講的再來是由我們列席的官員由我們國安局局長蔡明彥行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員廖玉琳"},{"start":2061.783,"end":2083.22,"text":"好接下來本期要宣告一些事情請各位同仁聽一下本日會議因為我們已經就國安局的總預算案詢答已經結束了所以今天沒有詢答我們繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分今天進行提案處理"},{"start":2084.26,"end":2106.935,"text":"先處理機密部分再處理公開部分跟我們尋答的時候是一樣的但是我們待會請議事人員宣讀的時候先宣讀公開念完免得我們清場完各位回來又要在那邊等宣讀半天就是待會請議事人員宣讀公開預算數及委員提案把它讀完那同時佈置協商場地"},{"start":2109.577,"end":2129.82,"text":"宣讀完畢後改進行秘密會議請各位委員跟列席官員離開會議室經偵測掃描後再進入會場在進入會場的時候我們就直接到協商桌就座準備進行預算審查宣讀機密"},{"start":2131.241,"end":2153.147,"text":"藉時再會宣讀機密預算數及提案後開始進行處理機密預算待機密預算審查完盡後我們再恢復公開審查公開預算部分以上本席宣告不知道清不清楚有沒有必要再說明地方如果沒有的話我們就這樣來處理我們現在先請醫生員宣讀公開預算部分"},{"start":2156.068,"end":2159.811,"text":"114年度中央政府總預算案國家安全局收支公開部分"},{"start":2163.052,"end":2175.734,"text":"一稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第78項國防部所屬國家安全局部分972,000元第三款歸費收入第63項國防部所屬國家安全局部分32,000元第四款財產收入第89項國防部所屬國家安全局部分153,000元第七款其他收入第88項國防部所屬國家安全局部分878萬元"},{"start":2189.737,"end":2218.409,"text":"二稅出部分第九款第二項國防部所屬國家安全局部分第二幕情報行政十億八千三百零四萬八千元現在宣讀委員之預算提案第一案第七款第七款其他收入雜項收入其他雜項收入減列兩百五十萬元委員徐巧興等人提案第二案稅出第二幕行政管理人士費凍結三千萬元為馬文君等人提案第三案至第六案為第二幕"},{"start":2218.874,"end":2242.461,"text":"行政管理業務費致預算提案 檢列兩千萬元 凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第四案 檢列一百萬元 凍結一百萬元委員林儲英等人提案 第五案 凍結三千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第六案 凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第七案至第十三案 系第二幕行政管理業務費水電費致預算提案 第七案 凍結十趴委員徐曉新等人提案"},{"start":2249.025,"end":2271.156,"text":"第8案 凍結500萬元委員黃仁等人提案第9案 凍結300萬元委員王定宇等人提案第10案 凍結100萬元委員林柱英等人提案第11案 凍結100萬元委員陳冠廷等人提案第12案 凍結50萬元委員林益君等人提案第13案 凍結10萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第14案"},{"start":2273.649,"end":2290.78,"text":"第2目行政管理業務費通訊費檢列50萬元委員陳冠廷等提案。第15案至第19案系第2目行政管理業務費資訊服務費支預算提案。第15案檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案。第16案檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案。第17案檢列500萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案。第18案凍結"},{"start":2302.748,"end":2322.778,"text":"16%委員徐巧欣等提案第19案凍結50萬元委員盧美玲等提案第20案第二幕行政管理其他業務租金檢列30萬元凍結80%委員徐巧欣等提案第21案第二幕行政管理業務費保險費凍結10萬元委員黃仁等提案第22案第二幕"},{"start":2324.437,"end":2345.358,"text":"行政管理業務費案日案件計支籌金檢列50萬元凍結30萬元委員馬文君等提案第23案至第26案系第二目行政管理業務費物品之預算提案第23案檢列100萬元委員黃仁等提案第24案檢列100萬元凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案第25案"},{"start":2346.372,"end":2366.7,"text":"簡列一千萬元凍結百分之五十五元徐曉鑫等提案第二十六案凍結一百萬元五元陳慧婷等提案第二十七案至第三十七案系第二幕行政管理優惠一般事務費至預算提案第二十七案凍結一千萬元五元馬文君等提案第二十八案凍結一百五十一萬四千元五元林楚英等提案"},{"start":2367.287,"end":2388.338,"text":"第29案凍結20萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第30案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等人提案第31案凍結100萬元委員陳永康等人提案第32案凍結50萬元委員林益君等人提案第33案凍結50萬元委員黃仁等人提案第34案凍結20萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第35案凍結200萬元委員馬文君等人提案第36案凍結30萬元"},{"start":2394.096,"end":2398.444,"text":"委員林玉君等提案第37案凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第38案第二幕情報行政業務費防護建築養護費檢列100萬元凍結500萬元委員徐小新等提案"},{"start":2408.561,"end":2413.643,"text":"第39案至第42案系第二幕行政管理業務費車輛及辦公器具養護費之預算提案第39案檢列10萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第40案動結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第41案"},{"start":2426.874,"end":2451.324,"text":"動輒10%委員林儲英等提案第42案動輒100萬元委員王定宇等提案第43案第二幕行政管理設施及機械設備養護費動輒85%委員徐巧欣等提案第44案第二幕行政管理國內旅費減累50萬元委員馬文君等提案第45案至第46案系第二幕情報行政行政管理特別費支預算提案"},{"start":2451.84,"end":2467.943,"text":"第45案簡列117萬7千元委員徐巧欣等提案第46案凍結10萬元委員林毅君等提案第47至第52案系第二幕行政管理防務建築及設備費資預算提案"},{"start":2468.527,"end":2475.834,"text":"第47案簡列392萬3千元凍結80%委員徐曉新等提案第48案凍結200萬元委員黃仁等提案第49案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第50案凍結50萬元委員盧美林等提案第51案凍結30萬元委員王定宇等提案第52案凍結10萬元委員林益君等提案第53案第二幕行政管理"},{"start":2495.489,"end":2524.052,"text":"資訊軟硬體設備費檢列300萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第54至第63案系第二幕情報行政行政管理設備及投資雜項設備費之預算提案第54案檢列3000萬元凍結50%委員徐巧欣等提案第55案檢列量20萬元委員黃仁等提案第56案凍結200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第57案凍結300萬元委員王定宇等提案"},{"start":2525.387,"end":2535.089,"text":"第58案 凍結100萬元委員林柱英等提案第59案 凍結30萬元委員林益君等提案第60案 凍結100萬元委員陳永康等提案第61案 凍結1⅓委員黃仁等提案第62案 減獵500萬元 凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第63案 凍結1⅓委員黃仁等提案第64案 第二幕情報教育訓練業務費凍結100萬元委員林柱英等提案第65至第66案 第二幕情報教育訓練"},{"start":2555.093,"end":2571.829,"text":"交易訓練費之預算提案第65案凍結65%委員徐曉鑫等提案第66案凍結50萬元委員沈伯陽等提案第67案第二幕情報交易訓練業務費按日案件計資酬金凍結15%委員林柱英等提案"},{"start":2572.429,"end":2596.554,"text":"第68至第69夕第二幕情報教育訓練費設備及投資制預算提案第68案凍結50萬元委員徐曉新等提案第69案凍結70%委員徐曉新等提案第70至73案夕第二幕情報建築及設備設備及投資機械設備費制預算提案第70案凍結十分之一委員黃仁等提案第71案"},{"start":2599.024,"end":2623.659,"text":"動輒100萬元委員陳永康等提案第72案動輒50萬元委員陳慧婷等提案第73案動輒50萬元委員林毅君等提案第74至85案為主決議現在宣讀主決議之內容第74案中國對我國政府網路攻擊次數逐漸增加故請國家安全局針對如何提升與請集資進資安人員專業訓練"},{"start":2625.961,"end":2637.876,"text":"專業能力並強化資安防護提出具體說明及計畫原件請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案委員林楚英等人第75案"},{"start":2640.487,"end":2664.398,"text":"114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政向下行政管理中人士費指保險費編列國安特勤人員團體意外保險費171萬元建請國家安全局競速修訂國安局特勤人員團體意外保險規定保額應比照憲兵指揮部特勤人員之標準並找尋相關裁員負擔延伸之保費以確保公平及照顧傷亡人員之遺嘱生活"},{"start":2666.559,"end":2679.045,"text":"原件請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王定宇等人第76案特勤人員團體意外險114年度編列171萬元較113年度平均保費640多元多編列20萬元"},{"start":2687.509,"end":2703.841,"text":"建請國家安全局說明增列之原因（原建請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員林竹英等人（第77案為確保國家安全並凝聚全民意識（原建請國家安全局應研議精進"},{"start":2707.179,"end":2731.147,"text":"關網媒體視讀之網頁面以利民眾便於得知訊息要職並因訊名爭議訊息挑選基準以致國人辨識境外敵對勢力之攻擊相關經濟作為請於3個月內以書面報告向立法院外交及國防委員會提出提案人委員沈伯陽等人第78案"},{"start":2732.816,"end":2755.791,"text":"建議境外敵對勢力除透過網路對我政府進行資安攻擊外亦不排除可能藉由內部威脅事件取得我國國安情報工作成果考量全球企業在應對內部威脅的資安措施上平均支出達162萬美元建請國家安全局亦應統合各國安單位評估我國應對"},{"start":2758.172,"end":2783.443,"text":"內部威脅所需措施至預算經費（並向行政院爭取支提案人委員沈伯陽等人第79案為確保情報資訊系統與作業機房環境改善期間能運作正常（原進請國家安全局應就機房改善及情報資訊系統運作維持進行妥善規劃並兼顧機房改善之品質以防渡中共網軍對我政府發動妄害"},{"start":2784.563,"end":2804.332,"text":"事件之攻擊提案人委員省博洋等人第80案正在國家安全的角度國安局因盤點戰略物資的必需進口量並針對運送船隻提出國輪目標數量提供政府各部會相關情資報告檢討動員準備和因應策略"},{"start":2808.362,"end":2823.445,"text":"原件請國家安全局於兩個月內就運送能源燃料、鋼鐵、糧食的目標數量完成專案報告並向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告。提案人委員紅生漢等人"},{"start":2824.52,"end":2841.017,"text":"第81案目前交通部航港局清查專案僅限於起重機硬體、區域附加零件是否屬中國製產品軍衛盤點。國安局應啟動專案全面清查我國港口設施是否有中國製監控設備並啟動事前示警機制並於一個月內向"},{"start":2846.704,"end":2871.006,"text":"提出書面報告向立法院外交及國防委員會提案人委員紅詩翰等人。第82案行政院今年通過《知通安全管理法修正草案》僅要求訴發部資安署與各機關溝通並無公布相關產品清單,令各機關對危害國家知通安全產品限制使用原則所規範的部分對象為中國廠牌,"},{"start":2872.327,"end":2901.02,"text":"然有許多歐洲或臺灣品牌廠牌需年到中國公司開發的第三方APP卻不在規範範圍內請國家安全局針對公部門人員自行購買使用此類電子產品尤其是非中國產品卻使用中國製軟硬體的產品進行國家安全風險評估並於一個月內將書面報告送交立法院外交及國防委員會提案人委員紅生漢等人"},{"start":2902.622,"end":2918.087,"text":"第83近年國際局勢變化劇烈（如歐戰爭以哈衝突及朝鮮半島衝突皆對美中臺關係產生地緣政治之效應。國安局應強化情報延期能量"},{"start":2918.807,"end":2935.117,"text":"發威我國國安單位整體情報價值以提供陳峰充分資訊必力制定正確策略提案人委員黃仁等人第84案中共持續對我國稅刑虛擬認知攻擊並結合實體戰略武器形成複合性多元威脅"},{"start":2936.258,"end":2951.22,"text":"更顯未來科技傾收工作之困難性與重要性（原建議國安局應積極協同各情報機關（共同發揮科技情報能量（以應對敵對勢力對我之威脅提案人委員黃仁等人"},{"start":2953.151,"end":2976.137,"text":"第85案114年度國家安全局預算案與情報教育訓練中教育訓練費並列國安特考及新進人員訓練費用248萬4千元較113年度委輔減少60餘萬元．要求國安局於一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告以釐清狀況提案人委員黃仁等人宣讀完畢"},{"start":2977.668,"end":2993.52,"text":"本席補充介紹馬文君委員陳冠廷委員林一鈞昭委黃仁委員那因為各位委員可能在路上我再補宣告一次為了作業方便以及按照巡達的慣例我們預算審查先機密後公開那"},{"start":2995.081,"end":3014.829,"text":"為了方便作業所以該先把公開預算的部分提案宣讀完畢待會進入機密審查清場完畢再入場會再宣讀機密的提案機密預算審查完畢我們開放會場再恢復到公開預算的審查以上補充跟各位報告那我們在進場的時候請各位就直接回到協商台那"},{"start":3015.589,"end":3016.149,"text":"我們現在改進行秘密會議請議事人員清場"},{"start":6118.831,"end":6142.91,"text":"議員．．"},{"start":6146.8,"end":6147.72,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":6177.892,"end":6196.067,"text":"．．．"},{"start":6197.789,"end":6222.586,"text":"各位委員還有助理麻煩提醒各位委員我先講我們審查的慣例跟原則第一個主提案人如果不在場原則上不處理主提案人如果不在場提案原則上我們就不處理那當然有個案特別這個請託聯署委員我們會個案來處理主提案人不在場我們盡量我們原則上就不處理然後第二個"},{"start":6224.027,"end":6246.991,"text":"國家安全局預算審查案往例我們是以二級科目作為並案原則那在討論的時候來彈性處理比方說按照二級科目並案之後發現後面有個案子跟前面案子幾乎一樣的我們再來彈性處理第三個如果已經完成與提案委員溝通那溝通完畢達成共識我們請業管報告的時候請直接報告同意的"},{"start":6252.192,"end":6263.995,"text":"三檢動或照案的結果那如果委員還有其他問題提出詢問再請業管單位來加以說明我們這樣子可以把時間用在比較有爭議的討論上面那現在這個會場重新開放"},{"start":6270.357,"end":6280.607,"text":"提醒提案委員不在場原則上我們就不處理提案委員不在場我們原則上不處理請各位助理通知委員是不是盡量在場來進行討論"},{"start":6283.237,"end":6309.957,"text":"好,我們現在先從稅入再處理稅出的公開預算部分那剛才提案都已經宣讀我們就直接來處理稅入第一案徐曉欣委員的稅入簡列的部分我們剛才講過按照二級科目合併所以我待會會有幾個案幾個案並在一起討論稅入的第一案是徐曉欣委員的提案請業管說明"},{"start":6312.523,"end":6338.699,"text":"主席各位委員第一案提案委員為徐巧欣委員指導列管卷社會收租金及管理費之議題以提供書面資料說明本局居安新村及官戶新村的管理現況鑒於該項稅務科目其他雜項收入本局是依照過去3年的本局同仁宿舍管理費的實收實際收入的平均數來核實那邊鑒請委員能夠同意該科目507萬6千元能夠全數照列免於減列敬請指導好"},{"start":6340.16,"end":6365.665,"text":"那這個部分呢我可以同意喔就是改成這個凍結等一下我的筆呢我這個部分呢可以同意喔但是我希望在這個這個捲改條例的爭議那對於我們的老舊的這個宿舍管理的部分呢國安局這邊能夠更積極的來協助我們的捲舍實際居住的這個問題"},{"start":6369.526,"end":6386.877,"text":"因為呢在我們現在的老舊眷區裡面呢那很多包含是國安局的眷舍那的維修問題還有呢我們有一些包含居安尋稱光復尋存那包含比如說碰到這一些颱風或者是他外面的外牆"},{"start":6387.697,"end":6390.239,"text":"那經常會碰到這個我們的國安局覺得那外強不關國安局的事可問題是他就變成一個三不管的地帶所以我們在這個稅入這個稅入裡面呢那有收到這個錢但是呢那我們卻沒有去編列相關的這個管理的經費但所以說這一點呢希望我在這邊列簡列的理由是希望提出來那也給這個國安局一個這個警惕希望說呢我們對於"},{"start":6416.455,"end":6419.578,"text":"那是不是就是照列啦照列好第一案照列接下來"},{"start":6439.724,"end":6439.764,"text":"接下來這個"},{"start":6454.898,"end":6478.488,"text":"第二案開始是說出的嗎?是的好我們從第二案開始第二案這個是馬文君委員的提案請說明第二案馬文君委員提案關心若使兩性淫規及確保特勤體能建設成績真實性以致委員辦公室說明必提供書面資料建勤委員同意凍結100萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導來有共識嗎?"},{"start":6481.462,"end":6483.963,"text":"這個部分一百萬我覺得凍結太少了這個因為其實國安單位是一個非常嚴謹的單位那你發生這樣的事情不管是體測成績造假或者甚至像有不當的酒後的行為等等其實這個也都是公開的已經都被媒體公開出來這對我們的殺傷力很強可是怎麼樣積極的作為看起來還是沒有"},{"start":6509.717,"end":6523.131,"text":"所以你沒有辦法根絕這個部分,你說有那個攝影,現在也有啊,就是說之前有一些,你有那個監視器,之前也有,可是看不出來我們有什麼樣積極的因應的作為,那應該怎麼做,我覺得那是一個表態,一百萬太少了"},{"start":6529.258,"end":6529.979,"text":"這個支持這個馬委員的提案之外呢我想要特別在這個因為這個案子是關於國安局的特勤中心嘛"},{"start":6545.982,"end":6561.152,"text":"那先前有這個黃金之亂的檢討報告送到立法院那裡面有三項缺失但是呢卻認為這個是沒有潛在風險的但是我個人認為呢這一份的三項缺失檢討只有針對動線規劃欠加然後合影引導管制不足跟現場機動應變不佳這件事情是我覺得檢討報告是非常不優的"},{"start":6576.162,"end":6579.545,"text":"這三項檢討確實沒有包含是對於我國的顏面有損這件事情就是我們好不容易歡迎中華隊榮耀歸國然後因為我們整體的國安在特勤中心的規劃上面那不良"},{"start":6596.001,"end":6611.726,"text":"那導致於整個門國門的門面受損那後續也沒有任何的懲處對所以我想雖然在這個案子裡面特別提到的是謝敬華上將但是因為這個也是跟國安的特勤中心相關聯的這個部分"},{"start":6613.607,"end":6629.233,"text":"所以我也覺得在這個凍結數上面呢應該予以提升那對於國安局的特勤中心的部分呢再加在一起對說明然後就是除了這個謝敬華少將之外我覺得對於這個檢討報告的部分"},{"start":6632.794,"end":6643.716,"text":"檢討報告的部分我也希望能夠就是重新再更細緻的做出報告甚至就是我很質疑的是為什麼對當下沒有做就這些就當天的事件沒有做任何的懲處因為有蠻多媒體還有民眾也都有在講說為什麼只給了一份這個簡單的調查報告然後寫了三項詮釋卻沒有任何的懲處那就覺得大家是便宜行事覺得這件事情過去就過去了很不能接受對所以我希望"},{"start":6661.759,"end":6662.7,"text":"這個部分也能夠一起加進來,謝謝"},{"start":6680.094,"end":6701.267,"text":"第三案至第六案並案提案委員為馬文君委員及林楚英委員關心保密裝備存管等相議題以致委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建請委員同意第三至六案並案凍結一百萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導好各位委員沒有意見的話我才試一下好不好我們這個案子來馬委員"},{"start":6703.348,"end":6708.111,"text":"356是我的案子嘛第三案其實我們在質詢或者像剛剛機密或者現在我們都有提到保密器遺失的這個狀況其實來報的時候第一時間跟第二次跟第三次其實講的不太一樣那就這個部分因為保密器如果就是相關裝備啦包括手機等等"},{"start":6726.6,"end":6739.568,"text":"因為一開始可能如果是很多政府的高階主管其實都是有拿到我們的這些手機那他如果遺失然後沒有發現的話是不是在這個過程當中剛剛說我們的那個通訊很慢可是跟遺失是不一樣的那這中間會不會造成什麼樣影響可能也會很嚴重所以這個部分我們認為應該要有一個積極的作為"},{"start":6753.617,"end":6775.87,"text":"因為我們的預算是逐年一直在增加就這個部分那第5案的部分就是說這個特勤人員在特別租屋看守賴總統的這個部分你所有的你現在不管是我們提問的大概有多少人多少錢有多久射哨跟撤哨的SOP"},{"start":6777.551,"end":6777.671,"text":"第6案"},{"start":6800.607,"end":6813.601,"text":"是針對這個部分可能在我們局裡面之前在國安局的各營區你有設那個理髮部洗衣部自動販賣機還有無人商店等等那這些租金那這些租金因為"},{"start":6818.359,"end":6829.823,"text":"越來越少那是說我們的人可能不像國防部的那麼多可是之前為什麼有這樣的需求這個部分可能一併的說明一下好不好然後再這樣好不好那個馬委員馬委員講的這些幾個點我們會建立紀錄因為已經溝通完畢了所以我們3到6案以馬文君委員第5案為主題案其他併案處理凍結數100萬書面報告並盡同用時的凍結數"},{"start":6847.27,"end":6849.836,"text":"三案它是分開的也不是總統凍結一百萬一百萬太離譜了吧我們併案就合併這樣好像併案兩百啦三百你都一樣那也幾個月了"},{"start":6858.144,"end":6876.146,"text":"病案凍結300萬病案凍結300萬以馬文君委員的第5案為主題案提出書面報告後使得凍結書面報告內容請包括今天委員追尋的部分接下來處理第7案到第"},{"start":6877.447,"end":6879.789,"text":"我建議參考我們召委的數字"},{"start":6907.99,"end":6909.131,"text":"這部分我凍結的這個金額是最低的"},{"start":6922.321,"end":6934.906,"text":"那當然大家所注意到的可能就是電費跟這個水費的這部分可是我後來有發現說像這個瓦斯費的部分國安局可能要稍微注意一下你們編列的這個金額像113年你們編列了118萬7千元金額不高可是實際上你們的實際數只有48萬像112年也是一樣你們編列了這個112年編列了也是一樣"},{"start":6946.75,"end":6948.211,"text":"這部分在這裡提醒一下你們在瓦斯費的編列是不是有預算有沒有編列過高的這個現象以上謝謝"},{"start":6964.697,"end":6987.336,"text":"農美委員說完我先各位因為我今天議事組提醒我們剛才機密預算有一個附帶決議內容我就不講了那因為附帶決議我們還要連署提案我現在直接把那個文字寫進通過的內容這樣更好這樣子各位有沒有意見沒有這個第7到13本席也有提案那我們是不是併案以徐巧興委員當主提案凍結100萬因為這實質是負的沒問題"},{"start":6989.978,"end":7000.823,"text":"稍等,我想再講一下,不好意思委員我說一下,我只是提醒一下你們回應我們的預算審議的時候有說是因為配合電價調漲可是從112年從5600多萬到9257萬這個調漲有到,就算是水跟電分開來講的話那個調漲的速度也是太快了,所以這個東西麻煩大家注意一下那個你們書面報告的時候"},{"start":7017.972,"end":7035.022,"text":"主席我也是快速講一下就是說其實有關於機密的部分我們其實都是會很給予高度的支持可是像這個就像主席所講的就是時報時消的但是你們在幅度調整的比例上面我們其實還是會嚴格審議對"},{"start":7038.8,"end":7040.221,"text":"第14案簡列案是陳冠廷委員的提案,請業管說明"},{"start":7062.927,"end":7083.041,"text":"請委員關心通訊費應補償這部分是提供委員書面資料說明那建請委員能夠支持同意照列請委員知道我還是建議還是要檢列因為這個政府還是臨近預算沒有新的計劃你用這樣子的方式還是以年度去編列沒有新的作為的話"},{"start":7084.914,"end":7106.359,"text":"報告委員我是第5處處長跟委員報告一下我們在這個部分是有新增因應相關的需求總共新增了12條專寫那不然這樣好不好先凍結然後等到你們給我書面把那個目的就你們事前沒有溝通嗎有先凍啦先凍然後接下來書面報告後總額多少這個分支項目多少"},{"start":7111.786,"end":7134.676,"text":"好了那可以啦來凍結50萬書面報告後凍資來接下來併案第15案到第19案請業管說明一致各委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建議依馬文俊委員羅美林委員的溝通結果第15第19案併案3減20萬元以及凍結50萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資"},{"start":7146.05,"end":7159.624,"text":"15跟22案我們提出來的那個是一樣所以待會22案再提另外16案的部分因為我們對這個預算有疑慮的這個部分是因為他有新增"},{"start":7161.021,"end":7161.161,"text":"沒有把22嗎?"},{"start":7189.153,"end":7192.434,"text":"還有一個,沒有,22等一下好了,就是16啦,然後還有17,因為我想16跟17我們分開,分開好了,因為它是不一樣的東西,17案我們現在比較在乎的是因為它就其他網路空間、工房、技能、培訓場域,它大概"},{"start":7213.43,"end":7216.733,"text":"我們現在比較擔心的我們從建制到開始到現在為止都必須要仰賴廠商我們甚至都沒有培養自己的一個教官我們買那你如果全部都要靠廠商而且他們還進駐喔一個進駐三個人大概一個月要7萬多塊等於每個人"},{"start":7233.126,"end":7233.246,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7257.193,"end":7275.026,"text":"．．．"},{"start":7275.026,"end":7275.186,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":7299.321,"end":7300.462,"text":"第二案我們還是希望他可以稍微高一點"},{"start":7319.755,"end":7321.116,"text":"第16案凍結200,第17案凍結100,挪美零案凍結50"},{"start":7336.289,"end":7341.593,"text":"第15到第19案的併案處理分別以第16案凍結200第17案凍結100第19案凍結50然後書面報告經同意後使得凍支書面報告內容請涵蓋該委員槌尋部分羅委員"},{"start":7362.838,"end":7366.18,"text":"主席我想請教一下你剛才說16 17 19我們這樣動200 150那是說這一幕全部加起來350就這整個就是15到19350我只是做分配分配到案件"},{"start":7379.306,"end":7386.01,"text":"15到19我們總共就是動350的預示我再補充一下我這個案子我這個案當初我們就想說我們取的私通安全有證照人數的比例之前就一直定在88%那後來反映說其實我們早就實際值早就已經拔標了所以後來你們把它改成90%這目標值這部分我能夠接受可是我還是要補充一點就是說現在我們的這個"},{"start":7408.563,"end":7426.971,"text":"提供的指標就單純的檢視資安人員他具有相關證照的這個比例可是呢我們國安局他是作為一個資安責任A級的機關如果是按照資通安全責任等級分級辦法的話其實我們要很明確的要求A級機關的資安專職人員必須取得比如說4張以上的這個證照然後非專職人員也需要定期接受資安的這個訓練可是我們發現說我們在這個績效"},{"start":7434.654,"end":7435.254,"text":"17案我們希望可以調高他的那個凍結數"},{"start":7464.059,"end":7467.642,"text":"因為這個我剛剛除了剛剛講的以外如果我們被攻破的時候甚至還要找廠商來做我們完全沒有辦法去做現場的處理這是很嚴重的問題所以這個部分我們希望他可以獨立出來而且必須要找到一個合適的一個處置的作為"},{"start":7486.127,"end":7508.456,"text":"毛永國看這樣子我們15到18案定案處理以馬文君委員的提案我們抓第16案來當代表案但是你剛才問的內容通通要涵蓋在書面報告範圍內主席剛剛你們有講15跟16其他的東西是不一樣的所以我們還是希望你用兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百"},{"start":7513.019,"end":7513.823,"text":"對阿,而且沒有,不是阿,不是17的問題"},{"start":7518.603,"end":7532.773,"text":"會有問題嗎?這個金額其實都很高我們剛剛講的是他應該要有一個作為出來我們大家有共識就邁進啦但是我還是因為還有其他要併進去啦原則上16案凍結200書面報告金童佑史的凍資15、17、18案合併凍結200以17案這個為主題案然後書面報告"},{"start":7544.381,"end":7545.522,"text":"第20案提案委員徐巧欣委員"},{"start":7576.679,"end":7591.525,"text":"提案委員徐巧欣委員是關心洗滌設備租金跟更新公安機預算重疊的議題我們已經有提供素面資料說明然後建勤委員能夠同意照列來徐委員好等我一下翻一下在哪20案在哪這個因為他沒有重疊"},{"start":7597.08,"end":7599.522,"text":"20案這邊是你們在編列預算的時候就關於影印機跟洗滌設備有的寫租賃有的寫購置所以說我這邊等一下我再翻一下你等我一下我剛剛出去上個廁所就回來20案是這個嗎"},{"start":7625.339,"end":7627.101,"text":"銀印機及洗滌設備業務費物品訓練中心B、更新洗衣機、烘衣機費用53萬"},{"start":7640.479,"end":7668.698,"text":"其實它是有重疊的情形就是我們前後去看所以當時我是要求國安局要確切列出洗滌設備是租用或是購入為主那所以說這個國安局這次的預算提案說明資料這邊有提到了就是它是說有一部分是租賃有一部分是購置那這邊我希望我們這邊能夠就是檢列就不用了那我凍結"},{"start":7671.039,"end":7685.985,"text":"我們簡單凍結10萬元但請你們再把這個10萬元就20%了沒我簡單說明一下因為那個設備是在不同的營區我知道我知道我現在看你們的說明因為本來沒有說明嘛"},{"start":7686.465,"end":7707.55,"text":"但是因為我希望知道說你們的租賃的這個價格跟你的購置的這個價格你們的預算預算大概要怎麼去分配因為你這個你這個雖然你的價格是538000嘛但是因為你有租又有購然後你又把它寫在一起所以我希望說你們可以把你們租的你們租的價格跟你們購置的價格能夠分開寫然後分開寫然後讓我知道"},{"start":7714.591,"end":7737.176,"text":"那你只要書面報告給我不需要再經同意而動之好不好他這個其實是分開寫的啦目視的一個是那個區內中心我知道你分開寫啊但是你這邊你上面有去說明了啦他是分開的啦你沒有來跟我說明啊你就只有這個而已啊不然你現在講也可以"},{"start":7740.492,"end":7761.745,"text":"沒有啦就是我們他來講過一次了這樣子喔我們抓五萬塊錢凍結然後書面報告後使得凍結這樣好不好沒有問題你就給我書面一張紙那我跟你說我跟你說因為你租賃的部分以後會每年都有所以我要看你租賃的價格"},{"start":7763.046,"end":7764.327,"text":"第21案還原委員提案請業管說明"},{"start":7793.129,"end":7814.526,"text":"以致委員辦公室說明必提供書面資料本案已獲委員同意改列組決議請委員指導來 黃任委員對 因為有來商討過改為組決議最主要就是說當然我們的國安人員的一個特性屬於比較高危險所以我們希望近期能夠再更能夠進入到公股因為一般私人的保險裡面"},{"start":7815.467,"end":7820.009,"text":"二十二案委馬文君委員提案關心本局國安局網站的內容的議題一致委員辦公室說明那本案建情委員同意照列馬委員請說"},{"start":7846.874,"end":7864.539,"text":"15跟22你是病安凍結那這個部分為什麼會特別提出來因為國安局是國家很高階高層的一個單位位階很高然後你明明有英文的版面的版頁的設計可是你卻沒有英文叫人家點進去看的時候必須要連結到我們的中文這個部分去做中文版的連結替代我覺得這個"},{"start":7871.361,"end":7886.986,"text":"這個很奇怪而且你如果是歐洲國家或者你說日韓啊或者東南亞國家他點進去看不到你明明有要不然你就把它撤下來就不要用那你連國安局都沒有辦法做到這個部分而且就還不能凍結我覺得這個可能交代不過去啊"},{"start":7891.567,"end":7901.493,"text":"馬偉因為這個我建議這樣好不好22案我們剛才在第15案也有海天網站嘛那時候平安凍結200了所以我們這邊就不再凍但是你們的書面報"},{"start":7902.962,"end":7923.529,"text":"你們的書面報告我剛有一起宣讀書面報告要涵蓋你現在問的這個部分好不好這樣我們來處理就是第22案原則上就照列但是請在前面這個凍結第15案的部分要把這個委員垂詢的部分一併納入說明再來處理第23案到26案"},{"start":7927.352,"end":7940.604,"text":"23案至26案併案提案委員黃仁委員等4位委員以致委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建議依馬文君委員溝通的結果併案3減20萬元以及凍結50萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導來委員有沒有要詮詢的來有來曲曉鑫委員"},{"start":7947.249,"end":7959.996,"text":"呃我在這個地地地地地25案的部分吼我這邊有很大的意見那當然我現在的呃檢列金額跟凍結金額我們這邊都可以再調整可是我要講就是說我們在這個呃我25-1吼這個"},{"start":7963.658,"end":7967.94,"text":"第5處我們這個秦傳通聯系統的話機325萬ALE20數位話機阿我去幫你們尋過價了你們買300台157萬元但我去幫你們尋價了一台只要5200元ALE30數位話機200台你們買說168萬元我去幫你們尋過價一台只要8400元"},{"start":7989.592,"end":8014.839,"text":"數位化視訊系統52萬2000元你說15台嘛HDMI分屏器60台都沒有這麼貴喔我覺得你們在這個整個編列這個第5處這個秦船通聯化技上面的整個巡架上面出了很大的問題這個我直接因為這個ALE20然後ALE30你只要上網Google然後打電話去巡架這都是"},{"start":8016.639,"end":8016.96,"text":"科技中心買電腦100台95萬易經37台13萬會議桌椅40張12萬"},{"start":8035.299,"end":8063.509,"text":"其實都說真的有點偏高然後你的烘衣機所以剛為什麼前面有講一個烘衣機的問題就是你看雖然我知道你們在不同的地方但是你說烘衣機文康器材修修鞋椅什麼窗簾屏風那88800種種53萬8你把它全部弄在一起我希望你們可以分開列好然後再來就是你們第4個因應什麼中共複合式威脅888好等等的然後呢"},{"start":8064.693,"end":8090.991,"text":"物價上漲趨勢然後你在這邊你講說中共複合式威脅國際區域戰事感覺後面要列一個很重要的東西但你真列的是碳粉夾然後後面突然加了感光滾筒跟遠古這邊我想要知道他不是一般耗材那你的廠商是什麼樣的廠商然後你這裡你花了340萬元所以我不知道你碳粉夾跟感光滾筒跟遠古把它放在一起的理由是什麼"},{"start":8091.852,"end":8112.976,"text":"所以在這裡我覺得有這個復烂編列的問題好然後再來第二頁的部分再也是一樣是物品4261萬6千元那第5處大量更換設備化劑等325萬等等也是一樣嘛你就說呢持續使用了22年然後故障率偏高"},{"start":8113.456,"end":8113.736,"text":"請夜管說明"},{"start":8141.141,"end":8164.075,"text":"委員您好我是第5處處長針對剛剛有關於委員您巡駕的部分因為我們本局所使用的雖然是同機型的化機但是我們的功能和坊間的功能不太一樣我們有一些特別的需求包括一些勤船及總機加密的部分所以說這個價格可能跟坊間看到的商品"},{"start":8164.855,"end":8172.649,"text":"本身是不太一樣的這首先說明第二後續所有的招標都是採公開招標的部分那這個東西也都是"},{"start":8173.925,"end":8175.886,"text":"主機當然沒有問題阿那你一般的這個化機為什麼你要用買的不是租的阿"},{"start":8203.168,"end":8212.471,"text":"因為現在一般的話機來講的話我們是租賃比較多用買的比較少我們目前話機基於相關保密的考量全部都是用買的"},{"start":8213.587,"end":8234.883,"text":"你全部都要用買的就對了做相關的更換好但我必須說你提說那你的數位畫畫機那你說有保密所以比較貴那你貴在哪裡你也要跟我們講啊因為這個價差實在是太大了他那個要為你們客製化嗎要客製化那因為我們通聯的對象不是只有國內"},{"start":8236.434,"end":8261.201,"text":"還有一些國外的通聯需求所以這些花季在做客製化的過程中會比原本的房間所賣的價格少那你就不應該直接列說ALE20你就要寫說你是有特就是你懂我的意思嗎你第5處你在說明的時候你就要寫說因為你直接列了這個產的編號的話那大家當然就可以自己去查說那那是什麼東西嗎"},{"start":8261.721,"end":8261.901,"text":"馬文君委員"},{"start":8292.663,"end":8296.17,"text":"因為這是公開審查預算你確定有客製化嗎?我確定"},{"start":8298.055,"end":8323.158,"text":"哪一個部分你說客製化的部分在跟總機在跟總機做相關的規範的時候因為我們的通聯管道因為你其他的你除了總機你會有一些特殊的特殊的處理以外你其他的其實都是包括你的電腦科技中心要買100台的極簡型電腦他就是一般的電腦所以而且你們"},{"start":8323.979,"end":8327.361,"text":"國安局其實買這麼多電腦你的人數跟那個電腦的人跟電腦的配比到底合不合理每年我們待會後面也還會討論到就是說你一個專案就一台電腦那你到底有多少專案你像這樣一個科技中心你就買就買了100台了而且你是買極簡型的電腦你除了主機以外你其他的就是就是一般的電腦你們說明的時候也是這樣所以客製化不是每一個"},{"start":8354.479,"end":8360.782,"text":"各位好,我是科技東京主任我們中心買了100台的晶瑩電腦它主要就是在公共區域很多監視畫面它其實不需要這麼高的電腦然後我們另外還有我們人員的教育訓練要臨時架設一個環境所以它的電腦不需要很高檔"},{"start":8381.593,"end":8382.073,"text":"我們先這樣大家初步溝通"},{"start":8399.722,"end":8420.2,"text":"有關委員詢問部分請列入說明的部分陳冠廷委員簡單補充就是說其實從辦公室的非消耗用品到物品的大象其實增加的幅度都是60%以上從大象來看所以消耗品的使用都是才一個年度才一年的變化都這麼大所以還是要"},{"start":8421.18,"end":8421.461,"text":"馬文俊委員"},{"start":8434.531,"end":8437.612,"text":"這個部分剛剛因為我們不是說包括我們的那個什麼投幣機啊或者什麼立法廳啊什麼是因為我們的面積都很小然後我們的人數不多所以其實我們那些全部都拿掉了嘛可是你現在說你買那個電腦其實要做很多的監視的那個"},{"start":8453.598,"end":8454.058,"text":"這個部分該尊解就要尊解"},{"start":8481.201,"end":8506.898,"text":"你應該電腦的使用方式你該買就買我們沒有意見可是你買的時候必須要有尊潔的使用方式而不是國安局哇每次都是用這樣每次都買上百台好幾百台然後費用也沒有比人家低你買的也是極簡型的電腦而已自己稍微刪一下然後凍結是希望可以有一個有效的一個處置就是精進的一個方式好不好"},{"start":8510.24,"end":8530.777,"text":"我這邊的話建議剪裂200萬 凍結100萬不曉得國安局這裡可不可以接受剛才大家討論的話大家聽聽看這個意見是不是以黃人委員的提案為剪裂提案剪裂50然後凍結案以陳冠廷的委員的提案為提案凍結100"},{"start":8532.378,"end":8553.847,"text":"然後書面報告後已經同意使得動之那檢列的部分請科目自調可是黃人委員的檢列是一百萬啊對所以我現在在討論嘛黃人委員一百啦一百啦就照黃人委員參選一個啦好不好你們檢列一百OK嗎檢列五十好了不要啦"},{"start":8554.929,"end":8582.437,"text":"沒有你們這真的就是這就是真的我覺得不合理啊那個我會選不同委員當然是有分配這個數量的問題啦那現在就是說那個簡列50科目字條那我們凍結100的部分請把剛才委員比方說你這型號一樣為什麼價錢有價差說明清楚相關的部分請書面報告把它詳列清楚才能凍支這樣好不好我們這樣來處理啦"},{"start":8583.137,"end":8596.252,"text":"主席,您可以...沒有,那個黃任委員,是不是要堅持一下?因為你這邊,你這邊黃任委員,你是不是可以要堅持一下你自己的...好,謝謝黃任委員你50是不是?對啊,謝謝黃任委員那你50就50了"},{"start":8599.635,"end":8618.926,"text":"剪列以黃仁委員提案為主題案科目自行調整剪列50萬有關凍結的部分我們併案處理以陳冠廷委員的提案為主題案凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資報告內容請涵蓋剛才委員在現場隨詢的部分所以請國安局做記錄人請務必記錄清楚"},{"start":8619.506,"end":8641.512,"text":"好接下來我們來處理第27案到37案的並案處理請葉管說明27案至37案提案委員委馬文君委員等7位委員以分別至各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建議依各委員溝通結果並案凍結50萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資請委員指導來委員有沒有要詢問的部分"},{"start":8642.583,"end":8661.848,"text":"我們沒有同意凍結50萬這個部分就是說27案的這個部分是我們的夜點費因為國防部已經把它調整成100元了那我們現在也同意跟著調嘛 對不對增加26萬多"},{"start":8665.247,"end":8691.922,"text":"發言委員有關於國防部軍職業點費調整的這個部分正式的發布的這個公文的日期是在今年的8月底的時候那在8月底的時候來不及那邊到114年的預算案那所以說我們在114年要把這個調整的這個從60元調為100元這個部分那邊那未來會按照這個國防部的標準來核實那邊業點費需求你明年要支薪的是100還是60你明年1月1號開始支薪的是60還是100100元"},{"start":8693.163,"end":8705.09,"text":"那在114年開始要執行月點費的劣資的時候是按照100元的標準那相關的預算需求我們會就原編的人事費理念按行政院的規定來調整支應以上報告這屬於人事費的部分"},{"start":8709.793,"end":8736.73,"text":"報告委員跟你補充說明就我們估算的結果估算的結果大概我們的這個偵編的額度需求如果從60元調為100元估算後大概總預算規模大概約180萬元對就我自己的人事費是可以做一個調整列資以上報告希望這個部分一點費就是按照那個可是我還有一個就是35案的部分這個部分我們"},{"start":8742.431,"end":8749.458,"text":"這個因為你是要買一個什麼要裝那個冰水主機冷卻水塔對不對要更換嘛然後你的預算是2000多萬你買設備不是工程"},{"start":8758.154,"end":8761.077,"text":"你換冷氣的主機還有一些管線要更新為什麼還要有那個設計監照的費用比如說像我們大概你水電它大概是這一方面是最強的結果你還特別而且過去國安局是沒有的沒有編這種什麼那個設計監照的這個部分包括你其他的"},{"start":8779.918,"end":8780.318,"text":"夜館說明"},{"start":8799.162,"end":8817.661,"text":"整個的這個從規劃設計這個我們都必須要符合整個工程會的規範所以說我們這個編列都是按照工程會的這個規定去做核實編列這些都是有專業的技師而且要去技師要簽證那所以說這些部分是我們比較需要的部分謝謝"},{"start":8818.542,"end":8818.742,"text":"委員麻煩"},{"start":8848.802,"end":8873.328,"text":"有關夜點費其實我相信在場委員都是關心希望能夠達到100元那國安局說明我個人是可以接受因為宣誓要到100元的時候已經過了預算書送進立法院的時間但我們該確保他明年1月1號開始是100元不能打折扣那既然不要他打折扣我們在預算的凍結跟相關的三檢列上我們可能斟酌一下這個案子是不是這樣子我們就凍結100萬凍結100萬"},{"start":8878.018,"end":8892.126,"text":"主席因為你35含在裏面嘛對啊35那是不合理的啊你2000多萬然後你買的那個是設備你不是工程然後你編了這個部分那應該這樣我來踢五十五十嗎沒有啦你不要五十啦"},{"start":8901.192,"end":8915.866,"text":"27案到37案不含35案凍結100萬以王定宇委員提案為主題案書面報告後使得動之主席我可以補充說明一個部分嗎就我在這裡面很快"},{"start":8917.887,"end":8939.46,"text":"我宣讀完我宣讀完那你說明然後第35案的凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支好那個林處理委員補充說明好因為其實我跟羅美林委員比較關注的當然就是人力的增加的部分那當時我們認為是說面積沒有增加但是卻需要打掃的人力那個這部分希望你們說明那我大概算了一下如果是"},{"start":8940.12,"end":8961.189,"text":"增加三個人然後多150萬你平均除一年大概50萬這樣獎金吧所以月薪大概是4萬因為最近現在大家都在討論有關於公務機關是不是有霸凌啦或者是說這個所謂勞務過重的部分所以我我們這邊與同意就是你們增加但是也希望在這個部分能夠給基層人員一些更好的福利"},{"start":8962.529,"end":8987.976,"text":"好 第38案徐小青委員提案剛才我們在處理第5案的時候案有一樣我們就併在那邊一併處理好不好對 一樣的東西啦剛才 剛才凍結300好不好 OK好 我們38案就同意照列併入前面第5案一併處理好"},{"start":8991.345,"end":8997.351,"text":"一樣 你看一下 第5案一樣我們確認一下 我們兩個確認一下"},{"start":9002.199,"end":9010.266,"text":"提案委員為陳冠廷委員等4位委員以分別自委員辦公室溝通說明或是提供書面資料然後建議病案"},{"start":9032.023,"end":9037.333,"text":"三九至四十案並按凍結五十萬元提出書面報告後（使得凍支．請委員指導來 有沒有委員要追詢來 馬委員"},{"start":9045.59,"end":9053.238,"text":"在40案的部分我們特別提到的就是說在去年其實選舉的時候我們有特別買了4組的車輛那有3組是候選人然後1組是預備的那在選都是提供給選舉候選人使用而且我們買的"},{"start":9065.089,"end":9065.129,"text":"主席"},{"start":9084.381,"end":9089.462,"text":"那其他單位有沒有辦法使用或者其實那只是一個形式上的結果你拿去以後他們都沒有在動結果就把它擺擺到15年時間過了以後就很便宜的把它賣出我覺得這個對我們整個在預算上其實是很不划算就這個部分可以做一個更清楚的說明未來說明的時候其實沒有很詳細"},{"start":9108.907,"end":9134.012,"text":"這個其實我們大概每一屆都會問到這個啦就是說總統特警車輛嘛都很漂亮都名牌的然後打下來之後你丟到松子部都在哪裡其實那個吃油太重了沒有人敢開那個啦所以我們其實每年都會討論這個每四年會討論一次啦可是應該要有一個做法過去沒有總是現在你至少不然很浪費欸因為你們特警車好像也不能賣掉來你們說明一下"},{"start":9135.732,"end":9152.895,"text":"主席報告委員跟您做一個說明確實這個每4年都會遇到一次因為我們給總統的車隊的車子的規格基本上都安全防護要很高那自然是高價舉個例來講今年的是BMW740那你這個淘汰下來沒有單位敢收啊"},{"start":9153.556,"end":9179.295,"text":"因為他的維護費換4個輪胎他可能要買一台車所以說那防彈車他更貴那4個輪胎要300萬我們現在的運用基本的原則就是給我們特勤的支援單位但是這些全部都是要符合警備車7年淘汰行政車15年淘汰我們才會檢討他到送到我們的支援單位那比方說警政署或者是調查局我們的支援的勤務的單位"},{"start":9180.296,"end":9202.924,"text":"那其他的單位基本上也不太敢收那我們都是按照行政院的標準警備車7年那這個一般的行政車是15年太久我現在就說其實我們就每4年其實大概都會討論到這個部分可是真的對啊可是真的是你就把它擺到擺到時間到然後這樣真的是看這個"},{"start":9205.284,"end":9229.21,"text":"我跟馬委員在這邊比較久我們大概每4年會討論一次我個人的心得我也想不出什麼好辦法因為選總統幾組你就知道要買幾組的車那也不能假設誰會當選用防震的剩下的就用紙糊的也不行都一樣的規格所以淘汰下來也不能亂給沒有人要收啦所以這個我不會把它稱為浪費啦它變成是一個民主活動的必要性的支出5組候選人就6組"},{"start":9230.45,"end":9244.339,"text":"一組候選人兩組這個是沒有辦法所以這個部分我們請你們去思考大家及時管理怎麼去處理這個案子這個39案到42案請說簡單講一下就是說因為我看到你們的這個態度的車輛已經是25輛等於說已經是換新了可是你們的保養的預算卻是"},{"start":9253.985,"end":9279.633,"text":"總務長"},{"start":9281.497,"end":9302.796,"text":"這個剛剛我們特警中心主任也講因為這涉及到一些安危的任務而且他的違保費確實是比較高所以說我們都是按照時需去做經費的調漲以上這個是實質估算但是陳萬田委員質疑也有點道理就是說你的車輛減少然後違保費用調高是漲價了是誤調的關係還是怎麼樣"},{"start":9312.543,"end":9315.906,"text":"你們有沒有說明因為有很多有剛剛講B&W進口車那所以說那維保費確實比較高"},{"start":9320.542,"end":9324.703,"text":"還有沒有動?沒有動還是要維保呢?還有其他的車輛啦其實要說明的是其他車輛因為不是只有總統的這些車輛而已你其他因為你這一次台灣二十幾輛啊而且到底是給哪些單位其實應該在書面報告書裡面要詳細的列出來這樣子喔"},{"start":9344.648,"end":9366.899,"text":"本提案以林楚英委員提案為主提案我們凍結50萬書面報告內容請包含今天委員所含所垂詢的部分那書面報告後使得動之好接下來是第43案徐小青委員的提案那個請夜館說明"},{"start":9368.46,"end":9397.72,"text":"市商案提案委員為徐巧欣委員關心本局設備更新工程尊潔預算之議題本局在114年度的機械設備養護費較上年度其實已經減列了980萬元但是在114年我們確實有一些機械設備必須要持續的來維養那包含我們特勤中心的空調管路送風設備以及科技中心的一些圍牆整建那本項提案請委員能夠同意照列謝謝委員"},{"start":9398.62,"end":9426.118,"text":"來請委員第一件事情就是說你們這個算是就是說你們覺得呢這個特勤中心老舊所以希望說呢包含圍籬整件然後整體的補強所以為什麼你們要就是每年這樣子去買然後就不編一個就整體特勤中心的連續性預算去把它就做一個好就整體的一個就讓它完善一點這是我第一個問題"},{"start":9427.199,"end":9450.359,"text":"那第二個問題是說你這個第二點的這個你跟我說明的冰水主機跟空調送風機在我另外一邊就是在69案的部分齁其實你在科技中心編列營區空調系統冰水主機汰換案裡面還有2300萬啊所以我不太知道說為什麼你們這個冰水主機汰換工程設計會在兩個地方會出現"},{"start":9454.102,"end":9468.513,"text":"那這個理由是什麼呢後面還另外還有喔就在另外這個局本部的就是在我看你你給我的這個最後一頁也還都有這個"},{"start":9470.074,"end":9470.214,"text":"來請業管說明"},{"start":9498.13,"end":9515.006,"text":"各位好科技中心主任報告我們中心那個主辦第43案我們有最主要是我們圍牆我們圍牆我們1989年建立完了之後那個圍牆始終沒有修所以有很多地方都已經倒塌了所以我們正式上我們把所有檢討所有應該要把它補強的或者把它補強的地方用一次的計畫把它完成"},{"start":9520.371,"end":9520.391,"text":"委員．．．"},{"start":9543.206,"end":9570.773,"text":"對阿因為你在43案69-1 69-2都有有在不同的地方有出現同樣的東西請總務說明我們局本部的這個畢業主席他從民國86年到現在在使用所以說他的時間也相當長所以說我們也是做這方面的所以你們有不同的名稱一個是在特勤中心一個是在局本部啦科技中心局本部是好那需要永遠考慮你說一個在特勤中心嘛科技"},{"start":9573.257,"end":9599.503,"text":"一個在局本部嘛特勤科技中心局本部那我問的問題就是說那你的這個冰水主機在不同的單位分別的價格你們估算是多少錢因為你們就是因為你看喔你在43案的時候是把維尼冰水主機空調送風機然後什麼就blablabla全部都放在一起然後你算了一個數字嘛好那但是呢你在69之1 69之2的時候就"},{"start":9601.664,"end":9614.631,"text":"就我的意思說你們是把所有東西這樣列在一起讓我們沒有辦法去看說那你的每一項大概是多少這樣去評估你的冰水主機的價格是否合理我們這個案子我們是比照剛才馬委員那個案子三個單位對不對所以你是買了三套對不對"},{"start":9623.497,"end":9628.34,"text":"每一個營區都有專管嗎?都有設計監照嗎?三個設計監照嗎?"},{"start":9635.831,"end":9637.572,"text":"我們中心的科技中心的冰水組區我們明年我們今年把設計建造已經做完了"},{"start":9656.423,"end":9658.985,"text":"這三個都需要專業的氣勢去做設計設計完了之後整個大樓的管線要重新佈置"},{"start":9674.076,"end":9674.116,"text":"主席"},{"start":9691.892,"end":9711.442,"text":"去年大概去年大家都比較忙沒有仔細的看到這個因為所有的你的水電又碰到水跟電其實他都有甲級技師的執照是水電才有你的那個設計建造公司本身並沒有具備這樣所以他每一個都把他"},{"start":9712.943,"end":9718.326,"text":"編這個我覺得這個可能要稍微說明一下這個部分所以我剛剛講我們是比照剛才馬委員那個提案把它凍結100萬好然後那個我不是我覺得我在那個43 69跟就是43 69就都有出現這個冰水主機的部分你要一併處理嗎一併處理好不好43我看一下因為這樣我們動作會比較快一點還有69還有嗎對"},{"start":9739.4,"end":9742.522,"text":"619因為還有三台嘛所以應該會有三個我應該都有剛剛已經動一個了那這樣子動200好了好不好"},{"start":9745.522,"end":9754.872,"text":"主席現在處理我覺得說用凍結的方式可是我覺得應該要把它明確化未來為什麼要編這個這個很重要而且還每一個都編有關第43案跟69案兩案我們併案凍結200萬"},{"start":9768.746,"end":9792.706,"text":"那書面報告經同意後使得動之那在書面報告內容請國安局特別注意當我們採購這樣子的冷水主機等等的時候他賣你這個機子他應該就要幫你施作是不是可以遵截設計建造費用請你們把它寫到裡面去詢問一下因為我們一般"},{"start":9793.922,"end":9797.384,"text":"一般採購會把它合併在裡面所以因為它有兩個病案凍結兩百萬所以除了這個請問大家的意見就是說除了這個你剛剛講說凍結兩百萬對不對那我希望這邊再減列五十萬元作為一個我還是希望可以作為一個就是說"},{"start":9816.573,"end":9834.208,"text":"因為我覺得這樣編列真的不是很好啦所以我50萬元不是一個很大的數字但我希望作為一個就是要求他們未來在整體預算編列的時候不要用這樣子因為你其實你明年可能還會再編那我覺得你看因為你去年編了今年編了你明年其實還是會再編你這兩個案都凍結案對啊"},{"start":9835.93,"end":9838.351,"text":"第43案69案並案凍結200萬書面報告金銅鑰匙的凍支那書面報告的內容請包含該本席才是的部分另外檢列50萬科目知情調整再來第44案請說明"},{"start":9865.515,"end":9868.939,"text":"事事案提案委員馬文君委員關心本局國內旅費增列的議題"},{"start":9881.239,"end":9885.422,"text":"第44項請說明本局114年度國內旅費較上年度增列了16000元那主要增列的原因其實是因應本局執行治安健檢所需要的國內旅費"},{"start":9905.382,"end":9905.763,"text":"國內旅費111年金額不多"},{"start":9920.342,"end":9924.145,"text":"可是你一直增加我們覺得很奇怪111年的時候是105萬112年的時候是110萬113年的時候甚至108萬而已就今年那你104年變成117萬我們去年甚至還有選舉你可能在國內旅費的部分有很多還反而會增加可是你不斷不斷的在這個部分國內旅費的部分增加找不到什麼比較好的理由所以這個部分你們稍微"},{"start":9950.801,"end":9968.066,"text":"馬委員第一個我先確認你們是不是有溝通同意照列了沒有這部分我們有提相關的書面資料跟委員報告這邊藉著機會跟委員做補充報告看你們說有治安健檢那你每年都有治安健檢跟委員報告就是說我們"},{"start":9972.267,"end":9988.437,"text":"今年增列跟明年增列主要的差別就是我們今年編列8000塊明年增列16000塊到24000塊我們是以一個案子的資安健檢任務給同仁的國內的旅費每人"},{"start":9989.057,"end":9989.437,"text":"每天400塊的去計算一個案子20天"},{"start":10010.672,"end":10026.22,"text":"明年是最高的可是我們不知道你的那個用途在哪因為這是時知時負的啦你們減淚10萬會不會影響這部分我們是按照我們明年的自然健檢的需求去有它的需求減淚10萬可能會影響它是有必要性的減淚10萬它那個項目的量就會減少了麻煩這樣好不好你那10萬改凍結啦"},{"start":10030.964,"end":10034.81,"text":"那我不要凍結10萬那你凍結你把那個列出來嘛好不好你所謂的你所謂的你把那個你既然都已經可以算出來那表示你知道你有多少案件數那你把它列出來那凍結50萬好了"},{"start":10048.245,"end":10059.117,"text":"總數多少?總數多少?總數30你就把它列出來你既然可以算出來說你必須要花這麼多那你就把它列出來嘛我們20啦書面報告把它詳細列出來30還好吧"},{"start":10063.922,"end":10064.142,"text":"第45案第46案來並案處理請說明"},{"start":10091.193,"end":10109.138,"text":"45萬至6萬病案是分別為徐曉欣委員跟林玉君委員提案以自委員辦公室說明跟提供資料這是有關於特別費的部分建情委員能夠同意照列我先說明好不好因為我們局長這麼有誠意我就同意照列那個林玉君委員勒"},{"start":10111.152,"end":10123.804,"text":"主席因為剛剛前面已經凍結了啦我可以同意不凍結局長的特別費啦但是還是要針對招募人員的不足請局長身為首長的話要特別多積極一點所以改用書面報告所以林委員是要照列還是要凍結"},{"start":10126.533,"end":10129.316,"text":"我們現在併案處理47案到52案請夜管說明"},{"start":10147.277,"end":10159.921,"text":"47案至52案並案提案委員為徐巧行委員等6位委員指導有關於我們的房屋建築及設備的預算執行進度都分別自各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請47至50案並案凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導來 羅美玲委員"},{"start":10169.092,"end":10195.131,"text":"這一案我想請教一下我們大興房舍新建工程我們已經6度流標我想請教一下國安局我們後面要如何改善如何處理這個部分請說明總務是用整修的方式沒有改建一直流標6次而且我們提高價錢也標不出去為什麼你們是奧客所以沒有人要來標我們要求太多了我們要求不能使用外勞一大堆的規定那廠商的"},{"start":10195.691,"end":10195.971,"text":"第53案請說明"},{"start":10225.968,"end":10253.905,"text":"提案委員馬文君委員關心本局電腦採購的議題以致委員辦公室說明那建勤委員能夠同意本案凍結50萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導來馬委員請這個部分我們看到因為從剛剛科技中心採購這些相關的設備或者像電腦我們可以看到現在目前整個國安局有3000多台電腦"},{"start":10255.266,"end":10258.948,"text":"為什麼要這麼多 3000多台那因為我們電腦在汰換的時候大概是4到6年就會汰換可是你每年都買非常非常的多那從我們過去就前面幾年我們每年都看到我們買這麼多的電腦這是第一個那為什麼你有效的運用要怎麼樣更聰明的去運用這些資訊的資產而不是一直買一直買我們知道你們3000多台的目的是什麼"},{"start":10283.661,"end":10285.222,"text":"另外一個就是我們也看到國安局的單位在更新裝備的時候我們都不是針對需求或是損壞比如說像之前在科技中心廚房要更新的時候他是把所有廚房的全部都換掉"},{"start":10302.933,"end":10303.133,"text":"國安局發言委員"},{"start":10323.696,"end":10323.896,"text":"50到50是一起嗎?"},{"start":10342.881,"end":10354.29,"text":"沒有53單獨53單獨100可是要把它說明清楚就是你每年買了那麼多的電腦我們知道為什麼那個蔡局長這一題這一題也是本委員會的老題目了我們定期都會看到這些東西其實你們必須說明清楚我的電腦的數量是要支應什麼使用因為你們電腦還有分你們還有分內跟外"},{"start":10366.059,"end":10382.806,"text":"的使用跟更換的必要性第53案就按照馬文俊委員提案凍結100萬元書面報告請含包含委員詢問的部分及本席詢問的部分那經同意後使得凍支好接下來並案處理54到63案請業管說明"},{"start":10387.047,"end":10403.523,"text":"54至63案提案委員分別為徐巧欣委員等8位委員是關心本局有關各項設備汰換必要性的議題以分別到各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請委員能夠同意併案凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導徐巧欣委員"},{"start":10405.965,"end":10427.697,"text":"我這邊54-1-2-3都有提到就是說你們在國安局的設備裡面包含什麼桌球台、健身器材、無線對講機、音響設備、桌椅、健身器材就出現了兩次以上然後教室的部分一間教室要83萬"},{"start":10429.538,"end":10450.294,"text":"雖然你說教室到現在已經20年可是你說如果只是做一些更新的話那其實有需要這麼多錢嗎再加上你的餐廳設備更新案全案也要150萬雜項設備55萬元那你說訓練中心餐廳用了20年可是說只是更新而不是"},{"start":10450.994,"end":10458.821,"text":"就說全面全面的重做那你要花到150萬我覺得以現在行情價來說都是偏高然後你的什麼引體向上健身器材太夠149,000我個人會覺得就是說在這一個你看這麼多委員都有提出凍結或是刪除的原因就是我覺得你們沒有"},{"start":10473.493,"end":10474.193,"text":"林竹英委員"},{"start":10502.19,"end":10527.216,"text":"王逸川委員馬文君委員當然有到我們辦公室來溝通過了那其實這邊的6127萬里頭當然包含的部分非常的多有什麼冷卻水塔啦但是也有一些是沙發冷氣所以它會變成是當我們在看這筆預算的時候它通通都混在一起了那裡頭有特別提到的是有一些設備是用24年以上"},{"start":10529.156,"end":10529.256,"text":"王毅創委員"},{"start":10558.629,"end":10583.84,"text":"好,這些個別你們估這個價錢一定有個別的單價你們才會估嘛那你就把那個東西給大家看啊不然你隨便找一大筆數字去把它亂算算完了結果好像每一項都個別都覺得很貴所以我是建議後續把這資料補上來因為你們編預算不會亂編嘛你們那個數字出來一定是加總的嘛"},{"start":10584.54,"end":10584.64,"text":"馬文君委員"},{"start":10604.711,"end":10612.473,"text":"謝謝主席就這個部分62案其實我們比較特別的部分就是在之前質詢的時候有特別提出來就是我們槍擊偵測系統夜間攝影套件的這個部分為什麼我們認為這個有問題因為在去年要選舉的時候我們編了700多萬去買這兩套那時候有日間有夜間還有其他可能有四個項目可是廠商當時的報價700多他報700多萬"},{"start":10635.12,"end":10643.324,"text":"所以他可能得標了可是他到最後說好像又要漲價又要調高價格所以在這個部分我們那時候國安局把夜間的這個攝影套件把它拿掉可是還是700多萬那今年突然變成1000多萬要買這夜間的這個部分當時在巡打的時候特別提到說我們突然要增加熱顯像"},{"start":10664.375,"end":10666.577,"text":"可是如果是這樣問題就出在我們的採購人員你當時是沒有要求要這樣到真的採購然後廠商要調高價格的時候我們反而給他一個條件讓他可以增加這個經費預算的這個這個空間那"},{"start":10681.83,"end":10693.674,"text":"如果說按照他原來的報價700多萬可以買到結果你不但沒有買到那些今年又變了1000多萬等於是雙三倍的價格所以這個部分我們認為有非常大的問題而且廠商當時的報價他買了也不然可能有很多家那你買了這家"},{"start":10701.357,"end":10705.239,"text":"就只有一家那更於取於求因為他沒有我把它講完他變成這個廠商他現在他賣了那個組裝備以後你現在其他的附屬裝備全部要跟他買所以這個才是真的有可能是養套殺的這種模式所以這個部分我覺得這非常嚴重這部分"},{"start":10722.59,"end":10730.174,"text":"我本來是有提簡略跟凍結這個部分還是應該要查查清楚今天如果廠商是用這樣的模式我們就在而且就局長的說法他就只有一家那更離譜就是他那時候已經確定我們一定要然後我先給你報這樣的價然後我沒有辦法符合的時候我後面今年又更更高變一千多萬那更離譜啊所以這個部分我們建議要簡略跟凍結毛委員這樣子好不好這個"},{"start":10752.828,"end":10774.821,"text":"這個案子我們這一個併案我把它分兩區塊處理這個狙擊槍的夜間套件這一塊然後其餘的一塊在前面的設備的部分以林益君委員為主提案我們合併凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支那在馬文君跟黃人委員有關夜間套件的部分是不是凍100"},{"start":10775.922,"end":10776.342,"text":"我們數字上可能有一些落差我這邊再做一個這個說明"},{"start":10803.897,"end":10811.225,"text":"我們在95年買的這個舊的不含夜間套件的是2600萬那我們這次買的這個套件當時在108、109年我們去仿商的時候去年報價多少?110年報價的時候就已經到4100萬去年報價多少?我們的預算數是多少?去年"},{"start":10826.874,"end":10854.665,"text":"我們去年沒有買夜間套件吧?夜間沒有買夜間套件但是去年它就是1400萬你去年給我們的它包含夜間套件去年在給我們的時候它裡面就包含夜間套件所以你是因為後來把它拿掉了可是還是按照原來的金額啊最後它報價的是4112萬那我們錢不夠所以我們就只買了日間套件2900萬原來報多少?因為你編了啊你有編預算啊原來多少?"},{"start":10855.965,"end":10858.147,"text":"去年編的時候就是1400多萬兩套所以去年編1400多萬是含夜間套件的喔去年我把資料找出來給你好不好去年"},{"start":10871.115,"end":10896.45,"text":"他就是有日間夜間的套件後來你們在說明的是你們現在今年突然增加這一筆預算的時候的說明是說因為我們要求要熱選項所以那時候把它拿掉這個是非常清楚的你包括你給我們的資料其實都還有那個部分所以要講清楚因為這個是公開的這邊簡列一百你們會不會沒辦法執行有因為他這個交貨要"},{"start":10897.59,"end":10904.655,"text":"今年4月已經決標因為他的交貨期要400天所以說我們沒辦法是在明年的預算所以現在就變成我報價唯一的一家廠商然後我跟你報比較低的價然後我在交貨的時候我跟你說這樣不行我要調高價格所以你把夜間的把它拿掉拿掉以後你今年就再增加預算然後再去跟他買而且還不可以跟別人買這個會不會"},{"start":10927.93,"end":10951.658,"text":"來 局長這個是非常嚴重所以我想你們今天要有一個做法他是一家代理沒有錯但是因為中間有換了代理商所以是一家但是不是同一家對 所以不是說就一家從頭到最後在所謂的兩套商我們買的跟國際上的價格有沒有差異你應該要去理解的是這一個部分對 跟國際上的價格有沒有差"},{"start":10954.218,"end":10954.418,"text":"徐曉清委員"},{"start":10983.849,"end":10996.96,"text":"不好意思跳回去因為剛剛我還沒講到就往下跳了就是剛剛那個設備雜項設備的部分那剛剛有談到就是說以林義軍委員那主題案人是那個凍結100萬嘛對不對那在這邊因為我覺得這個總共6127萬元那這個太大一包所以我這邊還是提議說看能不能減裂100萬元"},{"start":11011.749,"end":11012.911,"text":"馬偉還是我們把凍結數調高一點因為我怕影響執行的部分"},{"start":11024.226,"end":11046.356,"text":"不是,我們的預算現在在審查然後可是你已經跟人家簽了合約然後那意思是不管怎麼樣我們都一定要通過的意思嘛今天如果說我們現在講的是如果我們受廠商予取予求你以後你根本沒有自主性他後續所有全部都要跟這一家買他全部都要跟這一家買"},{"start":11048.973,"end":11072.74,"text":"你們是因為槍是買這一家的所以套件只有這一家嘛套件它必須要是這一家因為它有軟體所以這個不管買別家的狙擊槍套件也是要用別家的所以這個是有點賣方市場啦所以我現在意思是說賣方市場沒關係啦所以我們的重點在哪裡呢我們買的這個槍型的夜間套件別國應該也有買我們不能比人家貴啦"},{"start":11073.849,"end":11094.293,"text":"這個是重點啦因為我現在買A廠牌我套件就會用A廠牌B廠牌就會用套件B廠牌所以廠牌的連通性是沒有問題但是不能因為被他綁死了我的價格就往上飆重點在這裡你們有沒有看看其他國家買到同樣的狙擊槍的夜間套件同一個型號的它的價格是多少"},{"start":11094.813,"end":11115.203,"text":"我目前就是沒有辦法去要到這個報價包含雷神公司這麼大的公司他都不給我們做一個報價那這個我們之前都已經去訪過在110年我們總共訪了五家到最後願意跟我們接洽的只有兩家那都不願意報價那因為最後面只有代理的就是唯一的這一家他做一個代理而且這中間換過一個代理商"},{"start":11116.708,"end":11140.166,"text":"主席這個部分我們為什麼要特別探討是在國防的預算裡面其實有很多類似你透過代理商也好透過直接的一個生產的軍火商也好那都是另外一回事我們現在講的是他的手法你今天你跟我們去年跟我們報價的時候他還含日間跟夜間其實都有包含在那裡代理商報的就是有含"},{"start":11140.746,"end":11143.689,"text":"結果他到我們真的要買的時候他突然把價格又拉高所以我們的錢才不夠你今天就是如果我們可以讓他用這樣的手法予取予求這是我們在預算的支用上面是非常不可決而且不應該存在的所以我們才會對這個案子會特別提出來你今天說其他都不會報價"},{"start":11162.389,"end":11178.634,"text":"全世界如果有選舉那這種距離槍是非常普遍的不會是只有一家今天如果說他現在就是報了以後我們跟他買了他後面不買他的還不行所以他現在變更高去年我們一千多萬就可以買這些他今年變四千多萬"},{"start":11179.654,"end":11197.15,"text":"所以這個部分一定要有一個組織的方式啊他是在含日夜間套件是從這個2900萬是變成4100萬因為當初我們報的時候是像95年買的最簡單95年買的是日間不含夜間套件2600萬"},{"start":11198.931,"end":11222.604,"text":"那這是我們買到的同一家公司的日間不含夜間是2900萬隔了18年他從2600變成2900同一家公司的產品所以我們從這個市場的波動性跟物價的漲幅來看這家報價還2900還算合理那重點委員關切的這個部分我們也要去增加夜間的部分增加夜間的時候當初他最後是給我們是4100萬那我們等於說2900加1400其實還是超過4100多一點點啦那這是這樣子的報價"},{"start":11230.107,"end":11254.455,"text":"6263我帶給你們休息時間去溝通一下我先處理54到6154到61剛才這一個徐教授我認為應該還有一些凍結這個簡略的部分我建議是不是用黃人委員的提案做簡略20萬以林益君委員做凍結100萬然後呢簡略的部分科目字條"},{"start":11255.915,"end":11275.941,"text":"動節的部分書面報告經同意後使得動之我們把54到61把它解決掉我覺得呢因為它這麼大一包6127萬如果只是3減20萬的話我個人覺得還是太少所以我自己是比較堅持試試看能不能夠減裂100萬那如果國安局真的覺得減裂100萬是讓你們沒有辦法運作的話我們再來討論好不好"},{"start":11280.362,"end":11284.005,"text":"以黃仁委員為主提案作簡列簡列一百萬元科目自行調整"},{"start":11300,"end":11312.107,"text":"凍結的部分以林毅君昭偉為主提案並案處理凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支62-63案我們現在休息5分鐘你們溝通完我們回來繼續再審"},{"start":11318.626,"end":11319.047,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會議"},{"start":11340.754,"end":11341.775,"text":"市長市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":11355.409,"end":11371.002,"text":"你去年對我是說你現在的版本是現在做的是113年做的我們當時拿到的資料就是說你之前要買的時候其實你已經有含之夜間了啦對啊你那時候報"},{"start":11375.066,"end":11378.688,"text":"三個鏡頭一個是那一個那一個的鏡頭上面那個又是他這邊那個沒差然後這邊後面"},{"start":11889.792,"end":11904.158,"text":"好我們恢復開會吼那有關62案63案這一個槍擊偵測系統葉建勝已套件吼本席宣告如下各位委員同仁聽一下吼"},{"start":11914.54,"end":11918.469,"text":"以黃人委員的提案為主提案凍結300萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支"},{"start":11922.846,"end":11943.637,"text":"主席順便請他們把112年就是當時我們採購的一些把舊的資料對照要列到書面報告內好書面報告請包含委員槌尋要求部分接下來64案楚瀅委員你這個案子我們在前面有一模一樣提案我們就併到那邊處理了好不好那本案就不處理了好謝謝來接下來第65到66案併案處理請葉管說明"},{"start":11950.764,"end":11965.552,"text":"提案委員分別為徐巧欣委員及沈伯洋委員以致委員辦公室說明或是提供素面資料其中第66案以獲沈伯洋委員同意改列組決議第65案建請徐巧欣委員能夠同意照列"},{"start":11966.272,"end":11967.133,"text":"107-114年國安局從事資通安全人員的業務人員當中資安技術管理專業證照合格人員"},{"start":11984.29,"end":12013.319,"text":"答預設標準88%但是針對特定證照的這個國際資訊安全專家認證歷年通過率低於目標通過率113年只有83%而且呢之前有國安人員拍攝不雅影片的外流事件所以我們覺得應該要提出詳細檢討報告避免類似事件再發生那原本我們是提出凍結預算是比較高的但是呢現在我們可以這邊我可以改列為"},{"start":12014.74,"end":12023.969,"text":"凍結金額100萬元那不曉得這個國安局這邊能不能夠接受徐教卿委員你這個案子我是不是建議用沈博洋委員當主題案啊"},{"start":12024.608,"end":12025.028,"text":"第67案 夜管說明"},{"start":12055.522,"end":12083.751,"text":"67案提案委員為林楚瑩委員關心有關於本局的教育訓練班對偵編講座終點會相關計畫之議題以致委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建請委員同意照列請委員指導來請林楚瑩委員好因為本席其實只是想要了解到你們從110年到113年在這些所謂的專題演講當中到底有哪些人來演講那麼內容如何那因為確實已經給了我很詳盡的資料所以我可以同意照列好同意照列"},{"start":12085.372,"end":12087.814,"text":"68-69病案處理請夜管說明70案-73案請夜管說明"},{"start":12103.566,"end":12116.577,"text":"70案至73案提案委員黃仁委員等4位委員都是在關心有關本局資訊傳輸網路機房的整建問題與分別自委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請委員能同意並案凍結50萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導"},{"start":12120.74,"end":12123.321,"text":"關體委員你現在有兩案了零一軍委員還只有一案我現在用零一軍委員當主題案好不好"},{"start":12141.928,"end":12159.053,"text":"70-73案以林毅君委員為主提案並案凍結50萬出面報告後使得凍結預算機密公開部分處理完略非常感謝各位委員接下來要處理主決議因為剛才有一個改列主決議"},{"start":12166.38,"end":12171.783,"text":"第86案114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政向下行政管理中業務費之保險費中特勤人員團體意外保險費編列預算171萬元為113年度特勤人員團體意外險決標數僅151萬元"},{"start":12193.734,"end":12212.446,"text":"請國家安全局、廣邀、台銀人壽等公股保險公司報價及投標並於一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告說明增列原因提案人委員黃仁等委員宣讀完畢好我們全部都宣讀完畢主決議的處理方式"},{"start":12213.72,"end":12234.068,"text":"委員提案如果關局同意就直接講那個同意那我們就過去了好這個案子就是練過去練過去好我開始來處理第一案好來第會議詢問那中間如我們可以詢問關局嗎好不好好來那另外陳永康委員有委託本席所以雖然他不在"},{"start":12234.889,"end":12234.949,"text":"來 接下來"},{"start":12258.742,"end":12286.491,"text":"主決議74案本局同意配合辦理照案通過75案已獲提案委員同意修正部分文字配合辦理照修正決議部分文字通過76案同意配合辦理照案通過77案已獲提案委員同意修正部分文字配合辦理照修正決議部分文字案通過78案同意配合辦理79案同意配合辦理"},{"start":12290.446,"end":12306.284,"text":"80案至82案因為洪森漢委員已經撤案我們80案到82案已經我們就撤案不予處理要不然就要交到外防委員會去處理好了80到82案我們就同意撤案不予處理83案"},{"start":12308.266,"end":12317.19,"text":"同意配合辦理這邊有要詢問這個國安局喔就請問局長就是有關於昨天這個因為裡面有寫到朝鮮半島的部分嘛那因為昨天這個南韓有宣布突然的戒嚴又突然的解嚴那這部分想要詢問我們國安局蔡局長那昨天的這個事件那國安局評估對台灣的影響大概有哪一些好 局長請再要說明"},{"start":12338.079,"end":12362.331,"text":"這部分我們剛在跟媒體做相關的報告那主要是因為是一個政治內部的一個政治紛爭產生了一個動盪的局面那也很快落幕了那我們大概關注的重點第一個是對於南韓國內的一個政局的後續的影響因為這個可能還有涉及到對總統的罷免案那第二部分是對於朝鮮半島情勢會不會有一些後續的效應那第三個部分就是社會安全秩序的部分"},{"start":12362.791,"end":12386.909,"text":"會不會影響到國人包括學生觀光客跟僑胞的安全大概有這幾個重點這個部分我們可能今天因為審查預算沒辦法詳細說明因為後續還很多因為包含他們的執政黨已經要求總統退黨然後聯合提出彈劾那政局的動盪會不會影響到商業的活動商業活動會不會影響到我們互有增補另外還有一個就是說"},{"start":12387.97,"end":12414.775,"text":"如果東北亞的動盪有時候會影響到台海的局勢請國安局詳細收集相關的訊息我們會適當的時候來排專報這樣好不好因為這牽涉到他國我們不適合在這邊輕率的去做評價或討論那很多他們國家內部的情形我們未必了解我們本委員會責成國安局詳時收集相關的情資跟預判在適當時候我們會排專報"},{"start":12417.837,"end":12418.618,"text":"85案照修正決議部分文字通過86案"},{"start":12440.429,"end":12463.667,"text":"黃仁委員的專主決議的來有沒有那個請說明配合辦理好那黃仁委員有沒有意見86案照案通過各位同仁大家辛苦了114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分業已處理完畢送請財政委員會會診後提報院會請問"},{"start":12470.432,"end":12472.713,"text":"願會審議前是否需交由黨團協商願會審議時請推派一位委員做補充說明請推派"},{"start":12488.772,"end":12504.016,"text":"通常是召委要打這賽會那我就推派王定宇委員做補充說明本次預算審查如有預算科目物質或金額調整我們授權議事人員處理另外林玉君委員有一個案子當時候說同意照列你要把它改組決議是不是但組決議文字要出來我稱我現在還沒有結束"},{"start":12520.1,"end":12531.862,"text":"你把那個案又拿給我,我來唸一下要宣讀,否則不行好,我們現在增加組決議第87案林玉君召委,剛才有一個同意照列的預算案他改組決議那個好,請宣讀87案那個這個是改組決議變第87案了"},{"start":12554.771,"end":12573.925,"text":"114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政行政管理中業務費預算編列476,000元國家安全局近年志願士兵招募多位達計劃目標國安局自106年至111年度各年度招募志願士兵目標人數皆為60人"},{"start":12575.868,"end":12592.779,"text":"國安局稅制112年度起將招募目標數減半為30人但未說明原因由美化招募率之與國家安全局面對長期招募人數不足因妥思對策捕食基層人力而非消除理事旅"},{"start":12593.959,"end":12604.086,"text":"下修招募至目標請國家安全局於3個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員林益君等選讀完畢"},{"start":12612.012,"end":12635.002,"text":"我重新宣讀一次本次預算審查如有預算科目物質或金額調整我們授權議事人員處理包含文字標點符號等部分12月4日及5日兩日為一次會但我提醒各位同仁明天要審退府會待會是休息不是散會所以現在休息我們明天繼續開會謝謝"},{"start":12639.527,"end":12639.808,"text":"謝謝!彈給立法"},{"start":12646.627,"end":12646.647,"text":"10年來"},{"start":12675.503,"end":12676.104,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"157799","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157799","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360ff09e18b61d8669ce45dd5fe0ad212426cda09273b596651c95f145e03d1f1aa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"12:09:32 - 12:22:21","影片長度":"00:12:49","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:09:32+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:22:21+08:00","duration":769,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.443468750000001,"end":26.929718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.87409375,"end":78.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.44909375,"end":83.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.29221875,"end":113.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.38034375000001,"end":167.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.65034375000002,"end":180.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.30221875,"end":194.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.49409375000002,"end":204.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.97784375,"end":205.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.04096875000002,"end":210.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.44096875000002,"end":214.78221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.11971875,"end":215.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.06471875000003,"end":218.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.27096875,"end":219.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.67159375000003,"end":233.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.37409375000001,"end":238.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.96409375000002,"end":257.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.93159375,"end":268.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.91721875,"end":290.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.36096875000004,"end":361.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.78034375000004,"end":386.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.90721875,"end":386.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.92409375,"end":386.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.69596875,"end":400.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.03346875,"end":389.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.08409375,"end":389.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.81221875,"end":456.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":456.41534375000003,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.21346875,"end":480.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.58034375000005,"end":482.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.97659375,"end":483.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.93846875,"end":514.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.65096875,"end":542.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.91659375,"end":556.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.33221875,"end":573.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.56846875,"end":557.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":557.54721875,"end":557.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.2534687500001,"end":588.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.1753437500001,"end":593.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.9297187500001,"end":599.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.8022187500001,"end":618.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.7022187499999,"end":682.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.2978437500001,"end":668.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.4328437500001,"end":668.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.5065937500001,"end":691.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.56846875,"end":693.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.6272187500001,"end":693.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.7453437500001,"end":694.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.69034375,"end":694.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.70721875,"end":726.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.86659375,"end":730.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.22471875,"end":731.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.4565937500001,"end":733.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.9753437500001,"end":734.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.2622187500001,"end":762.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.30846875,"end":762.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.35909375,"end":762.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.4097187500001,"end":762.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.44346875,"end":762.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.5109687500001,"end":762.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.7978437500001,"end":766.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.10096875,"end":768.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.48471875,"end":768.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.61971875,"end":768.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.63659375,"end":768.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.9740937500001,"end":769.9697187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.946,"end":25.526,"text":"好 謝謝主席我先祝我們這個林書恩委員早日康復他剛剛真的很辛苦而且還很努力的把他的工作做得非常好真的要大家都要多小心自己的健康那我們就麻煩黃部長 謝謝"},{"start":32.469,"end":50.099,"text":"是部長恭喜那也很辛苦因為這的確是一個困難的工作要您來承擔也希望您在這個承擔過程裡面除了注重自己身體健康的同時也把所有勞工的健康"},{"start":50.939,"end":77.894,"text":"還有所有的部分都可以做得非常的依照您的理想來執行是那今天就根據三個部分來跟您請教因為這三個部分主要就是之前也跟過去何部長還有許民生部長都有承諾過一些政策來做一個確認包括有勞保年金還有移工醫療呆帳還有有關於這個我們一些勞工如果他有"},{"start":78.544,"end":82.229,"text":"作為一些健康檢查那如何跟衛護部的資料可以做一些銜接"},{"start":83.57,"end":105.417,"text":"第一部分就是我們也了解這個勞保年金要改革是一個很需要持續進行的部分可是我們也理解很多的勞工朋友他退休的時候他的給付包括他的這個所能平均的費用只有18824那低於2萬元的甚至還超過百萬的這些勞工的朋友"},{"start":109.838,"end":130.032,"text":"那這一部分其實之前何部長有一直在確認說因為這個勞保年金已經很低很低了所以在這個改革過程裡面是覺得會不會砍到這些給付年金的費用那當初的考量有包括三大點一個就是勞保年金給付相對是低的"},{"start":130.652,"end":145.975,"text":"再過來就是他的家庭成員可能他的青年低薪勞保年金的這個勞工退休是一個收入主力不適合再做處理那第三個更重要就是避免勞工因為恐慌而去申請那"},{"start":146.576,"end":167.082,"text":"他申請的過程如果他一次就全部領退對他未來的生活其實更沒有保障那會影響到更多的權益那這邊要確認的是那您在這方面的意見或者是針對這個廣泛勞動朋友勞動朋友所關心的這個勞金改革的部分不曉得您的意見是如何"},{"start":168.022,"end":193.371,"text":"跟王委員報告其實今年在這個撥補包括基金投資的收益之下目前看起來這個基金餘額的水位其實有在增加的很有可能在今年其實會破一兆那我們會用各種方式來維持基金餘額的水位那這邊在講到確實我也同意這個何部長的看法其實砍如果要砍給勞工的給付這真的會影響到這個"},{"start":195.592,"end":197.013,"text":"對我們會用各種方式來維持盡量維持基金的水位"},{"start":216.161,"end":236.162,"text":"那第二個問題就是有關你這個移工10年也困難包括他身體健康違和的時候他還是必須要進到醫療的單位裡面去接受醫療那我想臺灣的健保制度即使是目前的狀態所有的醫療單位"},{"start":239.165,"end":263.211,"text":"一定也會針對於只要在臺灣的民眾當他健康有需要醫療的時候是不會有任何拒絕的這個是我們可以充分理解的可是我們也知道這些移工失聯移工他身體出狀況的時候他的費用就會造成醫院處理以後的這些代帳的困擾那在今年的4月份臺灣醫院協會也針對於全臺灣470家的醫院去了解"},{"start":269.033,"end":289.154,"text":"他們在執行過程當中針對於這個包括照顧失聯移工跟黑衣寶寶的醫療代帳那我們看到這個代帳的問題其實是蠻多元的至少在過去5年裡面就極限了1.25億以上包括醫學中心也好區醫院也好地區醫院也好"},{"start":289.622,"end":306.036,"text":"那這些代帳我曾經也質詢過好幾次那你也曾經建議說是不是有其他的資金的來源包括按定基金可以來支援這方面不管是用來支付也好或是用來顛覆也好能夠解決"},{"start":307.277,"end":328.902,"text":"至少這筆呆帳不要一直掛在這個醫院這樣的這個單位裡面所以今天也特別再請教一下部長那將來針對於這部分的這個醫療呆帳有沒有其他的思維模式因為我們也知道其實這個安定基金裡面的第五條第六款有講到要辦理勞工福祉"},{"start":330.262,"end":355.307,"text":"這個勞工理論上也應該包含我們的移工第7款是辦理外國人聘僱管理事項這個相對來講我們這些移工也算是外國人的一個來源所以這部分可不可以也再請研議看看那第二部分就是要強化這個外國仲介的責任我們也期待將來在外國仲介這個部分的責任也可以再加強第三個是移工來源國"},{"start":356.247,"end":360.035,"text":"能不能夠透過MVU的方式來請他們來負擔這部分對部長的意見怎麼樣"},{"start":361.823,"end":385.461,"text":"那個第一個跟外國人報告我其實完全理解我們其實很多醫院其實在這個移工事件的狀況下面還是提供移工就醫的權利這其實是一個醫療人權從醫療人權的價值的角度在進行那相關的這些現在所謂的這個呆帳那該要由誰來做承擔"},{"start":388.977,"end":406.447,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在剛委員提到兩個部分第一個就是有關移工的小朋友就是黑戶寶寶這個部分目前我們分別已經透過衛福部跟內政部移民署已經有相關的一個醫療甚至安置還有如果要之前如果要遣返的話相關的費用是有補助的所以黑戶寶寶的問題比較小"},{"start":407.808,"end":430.066,"text":"但是確實失聯移工目前我們並沒有提供他的醫療費用的一個補助那主要的考量在於說如果一般合法在台工作的移工他的健保以外沒有給付的醫療的部分費用他都必須要自己負擔的話那我們對於這些無證的移工失聯的移工這部分我們提供這個相關的醫療費用的補貼是不是會有一些觀感的問題必須考量"},{"start":430.586,"end":454.131,"text":"所以這個部分確實我們是朝著剛剛委員所提醒的包括透過雙邊我們的一個跟蘭嶼國之間的繼續的洽談怎麼讓他可以協助我們去做一些家屬跟外國仲介的一個聯繫同時也希望能夠透過法令的研修把外國仲介的連帶責任的部分把它納入他必須要對於這些醫療費用的電付基線款項分也納入他的一個這個連帶保證的範圍之內這個會持續來努力"},{"start":458.572,"end":477.243,"text":"我自己認為這裡面可能會有幾個議題需要考慮就是說我們怎麼樣不會讓這個失聯義工的這個醫療的費用的支出反而變成是這個擴大或增加失聯義工數字的道德風險那我覺得這部分當然是會必須去考慮的事情但就概念上面我自己認為說"},{"start":479.264,"end":504.792,"text":"到底是這個移工之所以失聯的責任在主要在誰身上其實誰就應該針對這件事情有比較大的致富的責任我覺得一個想法是這樣但當然會有一些細節操作面的細節的部分我覺得我也會來跟業務單位我們在做討論但我理解其實業務單位可能擔心的事情是就是說怎麼樣不會變成是擴大移工失聯的這樣子的道德的風險"},{"start":505.652,"end":531.886,"text":"因為合法的移工要繳錢,非法移工假如全部都是由政府或者追問基金來出的話怎麼不會造成這樣子的結果,他們可能考慮考慮的點是這個事情好,那就麻煩部裡面再去願意那第三部分就是勞工健檢的資料,我們在兩個禮拜前也提過一個臨時提案希望針對未來在打造這個健康台灣過程裡面,很多的勞工健康資料透過檢查以後,如何能夠有效的跟"},{"start":532.826,"end":557.878,"text":"衛福部這邊做銜接那這部分的話小黃部長對這樣的合作跟政策方向有沒有要持續類似這樣當初的這些我完全同意我完全同意就是這些資料之間的流通交換跟能夠綜合性發揮更大價值的使用所以我們會來跟衛福部來去討論這個資料上面的對接這部分我是非常同意好那就麻煩再持續執行"},{"start":559.058,"end":573.231,"text":"最後就是有關於這個職場霸凌就是今天的主題我相信大家對於如何能夠有效的去處理我們今天面對的困境大家對於部長真的期望非常高那到目前為止我們也感受到部長"},{"start":574.312,"end":590.501,"text":"用心決心還有努力的方向希望能夠盡快的讓這個事件可以落幕了以後把整個這個相關的同仁的士氣還有對於做事情的態度都能夠做一個完整的該有的一些方向跟訴求"},{"start":591.782,"end":617.142,"text":"這邊是想要針對於說如果有職場霸凌的話尤其職場在行為人是最高負責人這個部分我們現在如果透過內部機制事實上是無法解決這樣的問題那透過性評法可以用外圍的這個第三調查的或申訴的機制來處理那這部分是不是也將來部長會朝這個方向針對一般的職場也是用同樣的規範"},{"start":619.035,"end":639.498,"text":"跟王委員報告其實確實現在會有一些外界的聲音希望在這方面的職場霸凌的防治希望能夠有參考新公法的做法那現在沒有錯現在到底就是說尤其是如果霸凌的這個加害者是雇主的時候現在在現有的機制裡面"},{"start":640.719,"end":661.597,"text":"這確實就是一個大問題在這種機制裡面沒辦法處理所以我們其實也請業務單位在做這個法規的研議的時候要把這東西現在提出來的這個問題列為是重點要去解決的問題那是要透過第三方也好或者是拉高上面的層級我覺得這些做法目前其實都沒有排斥但最後我們還是"},{"start":662.638,"end":665.079,"text":"最後各位主席再有一分鐘的時間讓我們這個部長對勞動部又推動了期許"},{"start":699.654,"end":712.738,"text":"其實我在我上任從上週到現在其實最明顯感覺是我們要怎麼把部內同仁的士氣可以重新的凝聚起來那我自己在上週其實我們花很多心力在面對這個問題"},{"start":714.198,"end":729.643,"text":"因為這一段時間外界有很多的指教跟對勞動部的質疑真的都讓部內我們接下來很多業務工作的進行其實大家也許會有很多的不安或者是"},{"start":731.44,"end":745.245,"text":"會有一些不夠有信心的地方所以我上來以後最重要的事情是安內那這也是為什麼我們其實很加速的去規劃剛剛說像針對北分署的職場重建與員工支持的方案都是從這個事情的出發點"},{"start":746.445,"end":747.907,"text":"謝謝部長的回應,一起努力,謝謝主席,謝謝王委員,謝謝部長"}]}},{"id":"157793","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157793","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360bdd1736f14338963e45dd5fe0ad2124294948cb68dbf16ab198a39e653668eca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"11:15:40 - 11:36:55","影片長度":"00:21:15","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:15:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:36:55+08:00","duration":1275,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.101593750000001,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":11.52284375,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.56909375,"end":14.813468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.167843750000003,"end":24.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.00596875,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.775343750000005,"end":57.540968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.24971875000001,"end":68.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.72471875000001,"end":72.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.66096875000001,"end":79.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.00159375,"end":83.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.74346875,"end":85.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.01346875,"end":85.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.26221875,"end":93.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.26096875,"end":96.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.35346875,"end":97.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.02846875,"end":97.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.33221875000001,"end":99.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.00284375000001,"end":114.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.82034375,"end":107.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.76846875000001,"end":114.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.73034375,"end":114.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.96659375,"end":115.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.74284375,"end":115.89471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.89471875000001,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.91159375000001,"end":115.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.92846875000001,"end":126.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.67346875000001,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.51721875,"end":138.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.18221875,"end":151.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.58284375,"end":140.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.05034375,"end":147.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.19721875000002,"end":161.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.05659375000002,"end":161.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.06909375,"end":186.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.93409375000002,"end":191.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.18659375000001,"end":198.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.73409375,"end":199.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.11784375000002,"end":205.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.75409375,"end":206.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.32346875000002,"end":219.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.28784375,"end":224.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.90721875000003,"end":235.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.42034375000003,"end":239.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.21346875,"end":236.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.36471875,"end":245.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.57471875000002,"end":250.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.47721875000002,"end":253.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.99971875000003,"end":258.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.25284375,"end":254.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.44221875,"end":261.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.84659375,"end":262.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.03221875,"end":262.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.15034375,"end":262.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.21784375000004,"end":268.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.26846875,"end":262.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.27596875,"end":270.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.80721875,"end":282.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.86471875,"end":285.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.28596875,"end":286.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.28159375,"end":287.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.31534375,"end":286.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.88909375000003,"end":287.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.66534375000003,"end":287.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.90159375,"end":302.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":303.67971875,"end":309.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.52221875000004,"end":320.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.01471875000004,"end":320.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.06534375,"end":320.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.55034375,"end":321.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.76971875000004,"end":328.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.92159375,"end":321.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.95534375,"end":322.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.60909375,"end":323.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.76096875,"end":324.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.73971875,"end":325.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.22909375,"end":325.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.41471875,"end":325.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.80659375000005,"end":337.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":330.32534375,"end":330.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.56471875,"end":346.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.87659375000004,"end":341.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.93909375000004,"end":346.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.47471875,"end":351.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.60471875,"end":358.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.81034375,"end":361.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.30784375,"end":361.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.74221875,"end":373.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.06534375,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.06846875,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.04221875,"end":405.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.65534375000004,"end":407.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.54096875000005,"end":434.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.74784375,"end":440.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.73846875000004,"end":441.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.13909375000003,"end":460.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.48221875,"end":460.81971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.92096875000004,"end":478.04909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.51096875,"end":466.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.75409375000004,"end":477.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.62284375,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.57159375000003,"end":503.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.69471875000005,"end":507.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.25534375,"end":521.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":522.12659375,"end":529.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.73721875,"end":534.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.30096875,"end":556.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.9140937500001,"end":566.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.4740937500001,"end":584.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.74971875,"end":618.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.2297187500001,"end":618.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.8034687500001,"end":626.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.85409375,"end":619.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.99284375,"end":622.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.83659375,"end":623.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.02596875,"end":633.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.2578437500001,"end":627.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.8559687500001,"end":648.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.6047187500001,"end":663.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.77534375,"end":668.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":663.8259687500001,"end":664.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.92221875,"end":673.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":673.98471875,"end":686.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.67034375,"end":688.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.6784687500001,"end":702.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.86221875,"end":708.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.9665937500001,"end":716.2734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.2734687500001,"end":717.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.91034375,"end":718.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":717.9272187500001,"end":718.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.8215937500001,"end":727.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":725.4197187500001,"end":731.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.12346875,"end":733.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.1909687500001,"end":746.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":745.29846875,"end":748.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.17159375,"end":747.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.8803437500001,"end":753.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.94721875,"end":755.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.6809687500001,"end":759.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.0559687500001,"end":764.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.6884687500001,"end":764.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.16034375,"end":771.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":765.3459687500001,"end":767.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.51409375,"end":772.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.18034375,"end":772.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":773.0915937500001,"end":774.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.27284375,"end":784.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.2765937500001,"end":780.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.44471875,"end":784.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.64659375,"end":789.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.2240937500001,"end":790.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.5065937500001,"end":790.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":790.55721875,"end":790.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.60784375,"end":792.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.6497187500001,"end":793.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.1684687500001,"end":795.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":795.7040937500001,"end":803.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":802.8759687500001,"end":808.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.90034375,"end":812.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":812.51159375,"end":816.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.2578437500001,"end":821.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":818.3503437500001,"end":819.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.4553437500001,"end":823.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.80096875,"end":828.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":824.8640937500002,"end":842.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.0065937500001,"end":831.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":831.10784375,"end":832.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.22159375,"end":832.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":842.9878437500001,"end":870.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":871.16909375,"end":874.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":875.11784375,"end":877.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.49721875,"end":879.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":878.59409375,"end":884.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":885.22596875,"end":890.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":891.03096875,"end":894.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":895.3003437500001,"end":898.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.7934687500001,"end":905.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":905.37471875,"end":908.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.02409375,"end":912.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":913.1203437500001,"end":913.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":914.33534375,"end":933.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":934.14659375,"end":941.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":941.9428437500001,"end":966.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":966.7322187500001,"end":978.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":978.03846875,"end":989.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":990.15471875,"end":999.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":999.3347187500001,"end":1004.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1004.05971875,"end":1015.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1010.26971875,"end":1010.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1016.4797187500001,"end":1018.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1019.3147187500001,"end":1021.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1021.18784375,"end":1026.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1026.75659375,"end":1028.9334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1029.52409375,"end":1044.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1045.2347187500002,"end":1047.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1047.71534375,"end":1050.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1050.78659375,"end":1067.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1067.94846875,"end":1075.8965937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1076.08221875,"end":1098.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1099.1165937500002,"end":1120.4634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1121.8809687500002,"end":1131.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1131.65159375,"end":1134.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1134.62159375,"end":1164.3384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1164.9290937500002,"end":1183.2215937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1183.42409375,"end":1187.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1187.9972187500002,"end":1193.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1193.8528437500001,"end":1198.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1199.2022187500002,"end":1200.0797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1200.6197187500002,"end":1202.7290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1200.7378437500001,"end":1205.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1205.8003437500001,"end":1205.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1205.8172187500002,"end":1205.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1205.9690937500002,"end":1212.0272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1206.30659375,"end":1206.3740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1212.0272187500002,"end":1212.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1212.09471875,"end":1213.0228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1213.0228437500002,"end":1230.8765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1231.6865937500002,"end":1237.6265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1237.94721875,"end":1244.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1245.27096875,"end":1245.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1245.96284375,"end":1257.3365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1257.3365937500002,"end":1257.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1257.5897187500002,"end":1257.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1257.62346875,"end":1257.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1257.65721875,"end":1258.0284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1258.0284687500002,"end":1269.9759687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1269.9759687500002,"end":1270.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1270.58346875,"end":1270.9715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1270.9715937500002,"end":1271.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1271.71409375,"end":1271.7647187500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.39,"end":31.342,"text":"好 謝謝主席喔那謝謝請問我們部長喔謝謝土偉好 部長你好喔那個11月25號正式接下部長這一職嘛那好像11月26號你第一個行程就是去拜訪我們的北分署對不對是那去北分署以後那當然也甚至好像在媒體也有看到也去開箱視察了我們"},{"start":32.222,"end":51.18,"text":"前分署長謝宜榮的辦公室那進去看以後是不是也確定他這個小小辦公室也花了144.6萬元是不是確實有這件事情跟杜委員說明其實我有查現在當然在媒體上面講到新莊本部的那個所謂144.6萬這一個綠美化的標案它的範疇其實並不包括"},{"start":58.626,"end":83.499,"text":"謝勇分署長的辦公室他主要是針對外面的一些公共空間但是我要強調說我確實去看了謝勇的謝勇前分署長辦公室我進去看以後確實我覺得有很多部分是很過當的那尤其現在大家關注到比方說裝的這個軌道燈這很多盞的軌道燈那這軌道燈當然他看起來在辦公室裡面他就是專門去照他那些"},{"start":86.339,"end":113.814,"text":"那我也查過了的確這些軌道燈他是用小額採購的方式是用救安基金支付所以不管他金額大或小這部分都是非常非常不妥當當然啦我懂部長講的意思啦那確實他這個辦公室是確實花了一百多萬那當然有些是什麼需要用到的什麼會議室啊什麼等等並不是所有這一百多萬全部用他的辦公室"},{"start":116.875,"end":137.06,"text":"我們可以來討論責任的問題,但是在事實面上面,目前這一百多萬主要是針對外面的公共空間。謝永芬署長他自己在內部的狀況,包括我們已經查過他的這些職務的購買,目前是他自己用他的錢購買的。"},{"start":139.212,"end":165.552,"text":"那桌椅的部分是用：可不是剛剛不是有講說有些部分他是有用救安那個救安基金3萬9千多塊：軌道燈是所以裡面部分確實是有用到救安基金的錢嗎比如說就像軌道燈那些造植物的軌道燈他是用救安基金用小額採購的方式這是非常不適合我當然不能接受的部分所以裡面確實有部分使用是不當的是當然好那當然喔"},{"start":166.212,"end":186.495,"text":"上任之後去除了看過我們前前分署長辦公室那現在部長針對自己這個辦公室我們當時我們林淑芬委員有講我們部長辦公室當初許明春我們前部長說他裡面有廚房有流理台然後可以開火那是不是真的有這樣子的事情"},{"start":187.981,"end":206.083,"text":"我其實也是上禮拜一第一次看到大家所謂說的那個空間然後我其實看了以後大概他其實是我覺得他比較像是一個茶水間那那個茶水間的使用並不是我可以使用其實是部長室裡面大概"},{"start":207.384,"end":226.602,"text":"就是我幾乎所有部長室裡面的工作人呃的工作人都可以使用的空間並不是專屬他不因為我確實我自己有一間我自己有一間可是這個所謂的茶水間並不是在我自己的那個空間但是就是整體部長的辦公室裡面當然你的意思說其他同仁也可以使用當然所以確定就是"},{"start":227.443,"end":245.144,"text":"因素分委員講的沒有錯確實這整個部長辦公室裡面確實是有個小廚房有流離台可以可以煮水啊什麼之類的嗎其實他他他比較真的像是一個茶水他也沒有瓦斯爐就是其實沒有你想像的那個所謂廚房裡面"},{"start":246.67,"end":260.215,"text":"就廚房大概都會有瓦斯爐嘛對不對所以原則上聯儲分委員講的是沒有錯啦就是有一個確實有理台之類的然後茶水間之類的那你說有一個可以洗碗的地方茶水間嗎對"},{"start":261.877,"end":287.442,"text":"那可不可以煮東西可不可以開火就是他沒有瓦斯爐但是他有一個我去看的時候像電磁爐什麼之類的有一個微波爐微波爐對但是並不是大家所謂的廚房啦因為廚房真的都要你說都要有像瓦斯爐抽油煙機這種東西是大家可能想像的廚房所以所以部長你講但是重點就是有像茶水間之類的這個是這是有的設備嘛這是有的"},{"start":287.982,"end":300.707,"text":"那可是因為那時候我們針對這個事情我們也想了解說欸林淑芬委員講的到底是不是真的那我們也有向勞動部所知針對松江路至青大樓12樓針對我們看這個圖資可是裡面圖資上面並沒有這些構造還是說給那個圖資是不正確的"},{"start":313.117,"end":336.334,"text":"因為我們有索取到圖資圖資裡面並沒有說你講的什麼茶水間什麼之類這個圖資還是那個資料是錯的還是我們許部長是後面自己又再發包才去做的東西報告委員我們給委員的資料裡面確實是有茶水間我們有把這個圖都有畫出來提供給委員這樣子"},{"start":337.648,"end":360.594,"text":"所以你講的茶水間就在這上面並不是所以並不是林淑芬委員講的什麼廚房開火之類這樣子的東西對 圖紙上面的茶水間就是剛剛部長講的就是很簡單的那個所以今天講的重點就是說你們說林淑芬委員講的其實大家有點超過想像是不是第一個是我們其實"},{"start":363.019,"end":379.927,"text":"林委員當然講的到底是前後到底是什麼什麼時候其實我我我坦白說不是那麼簡單我只能就說就就實際的狀況面來讓大家知道我也是禮拜一的時候去然後看到其實看到就是一個大概是一個茶水間那裡面有微波爐有"},{"start":381.347,"end":406.834,"text":"有水槽那裡面有但你如果需要裝水的話你可以有飲水機部長我覺得針對這部分當然林淑芬委員講的那針對說你的你的釐清部分是說是茶水間但是其實我們從媒體上我們聽到的他是說有廚房有流體台而且可以開火甚至甚至可以在裡面暢飲"},{"start":408.595,"end":434.275,"text":"我相信這個媒體上面有這樣講那我是說針對這一部分為什麼這個事情發生了10天了也沒有聽我們勞動部針對這一部分做出一些事實的澄清你們像一些勞動部有一些年金的什麼短語音你們說那是假訊息你說馬上大張旗鼓又做突變又澄清為什麼這個事情你們到現在都沒有講清楚而且"},{"start":434.935,"end":453.588,"text":"我們所了解的 林子芬委員講的他是說有琉璃台有廚房可以開火甚至可以暢演也許大家對於那個空間的這個看法會不一樣但是我說就是這個所謂的空間有什麼東西我覺得我們沒有什麼好遮掩的啦"},{"start":453.848,"end":476.25,"text":"但是我就說就像他裡面真的沒有什麼抽油煙機啊沒有瓦斯爐啊都沒有這些事情那我覺得因為如果照這樣我覺得勞動部你也要適時的澄清因為我們現在很好奇啊當初林副總委員講的這樣那我想說欸我們洪部長進去以後不知道你進去以後使用的感覺怎麼樣我就裝水進去而已所以"},{"start":478.732,"end":503.022,"text":"一直以來我們都沒有聽到勞動部針對這部分來事實的來說明我們認為就是廚房阿可以開火阿可以吃飯阿甚至可以唱演阿上面的感覺就是這樣阿那你們從頭到尾沒有針對這部分做出任何的澄清阿我使用到的部分只有進去裝水所以我本來一直想說問部長齁到底使用以後的感覺怎麼樣阿就是水很乾淨"},{"start":504.784,"end":533.968,"text":"所以我覺得有受事實的澄清我相信當時大家看到林子芬委員講的這個新聞之後我相信大家的想法跟部長的說法應該是有所出入我覺得如果有事實的澄清的必要還是要說明那我想請我們勞動條件跟就業平等司還有勞動關係司的司長我想針對我們辦理音樂會的部分來瞭解一下"},{"start":540.533,"end":555.733,"text":"我們過去幾年,勞動部夜館的幾個法律,大部分我們所知道其實都是用研討會的方式,都是邀請專家學者、工會代表甚至婦女團體來討論這些落實法律上的問題。"},{"start":559.042,"end":584.03,"text":"報告以往大概都是用學術研討會的形式來去做這個幾週年的這個形式對啊所以因為我們看歷史資料幾乎都是這樣那為什麼針對性平工作平等法20週年他是違反慣例不是辦研討會而是挪用救安基金來舉辦這個音樂會這部分黃市長你有沒有什麼說法"},{"start":585.07,"end":599.582,"text":"報告委員那我們在當年的20週年的時候其實在上半年已經辦了兩場的這個學術研討會那一年其實是疫情那學術研討會在辦理的時候他是做一些學理上面的探討"},{"start":600.382,"end":618.325,"text":"那交流的部分的話都是大概學者專家還有一些同學和各界那他的人數其實是有限的那我們有發現一件事情是說這幾年其實要求我們對性別平等工作法多做宣達而那當年的話在111年其實我們性別平等工作法有很多"},{"start":619.427,"end":633.364,"text":"所以你講的意思說其實之前都是辦研討會然後你們也都辦過研討會但是針對這20週年確實也辦了一場演唱會嘛這一場的話是我們希望說透過一些多元的宣導所以他希望說拍出一個片子"},{"start":633.939,"end":663.089,"text":"拍出妻子的片子以及有一場的一個直播但是他拍攝的內容形式是用音樂會的方式這樣可以讓更多的勞工朋友和很多的婦女團體他們可以用這樣的方式來參與因為今天早上我也聽了很多委員的質詢答詢那針對我們這個音樂會的部分你看像王一民委員那時候有問針對這引帶的部分說要做妻子啊做妻子引帶啊"},{"start":663.829,"end":688.481,"text":"然後說這個費用花了兩百多萬那針對這部分其實現在大家所質疑就是說這個音樂會裡面用救安基金的錢很多的地方其實大家都認為這個項目這樣子使用這個預算是不對的那我們現在重點想了解黃市長這個活動是你自己想要辦還是誰提出要辦的"},{"start":690.007,"end":707.976,"text":"這個活動其實我們有做過評估那其實在在過往的時候大概都有很多委員外界有一些指教是說我們的性別平等工作法可以用更多的多元的方式老師長我問說這是你自己想到要去辦的還是之前我們前部長覺得要辦這個活動的"},{"start":708.996,"end":738.279,"text":"在我們這個相關的這個辦理的過程中其實我提到上半年我們辦了兩場的學術研討會所以是師長你自己覺得要辦的是嗎辦了這個學術研討會之後後續的話我們再參加的這兩場學術研討會許前部長不是啊我師長我說這是你自己想到要辦的還是我們前部長許部長覺得要辦交辦下去的後面的我們得到訊息是說有很多的我們包括像中南部的朋友"},{"start":739.219,"end":763.59,"text":"對於或基層的勞工朋友他們對於這樣的性別平等工作法我們當年有很多的新的一件所以是誰決定要辦這個演唱會是沒有辦法說讓這些人都有機會接觸到的那有這樣的一個沒有我一直問說這個演唱會到底是誰要辦的有一個像訊息進來我們就來研究說到底可不可以用什麼方式來做所以是市長你們自己討論要辦的還是之前部長找你們開會討論決定要辦的我們有一些共同的開會的討論"},{"start":765.311,"end":782.716,"text":"是部長召集還是你召集的?那是 那我們許前部長召集的嗎?那是你自己召集的?不是啦 就是誰召集就這麼簡單的問題所以是司長你自己召集決定要辦的嗎?我們有判斷過和研判過這個是可以來做的所以是司長召集的嗎?這邊是指誰啊?"},{"start":796.17,"end":823.05,"text":"所以我的意思說就是黃師長你自己招臺然後召集這個會議研議覺得要辦這個演唱會我們大概有一些構想和發想那運用的現在的那個相關的這些有的管道是那一年的統標案所以之前我們許前部長也知道他也同意要辦這個活動嗎我們有正式的簽我們的這個部分他也同意嗎我們有正式的簽這是完全正式的簽所以許前部長也同意嗎"},{"start":823.988,"end":841.869,"text":"對嘛 一定有簽嘛 一定有簽呈嘛所以許前部長也同意司長的這個做法嘛所以我們就說針對這個演唱會 其實齁黃國昌委員之前也有講你像今天早上很多的委員都針對這一部分我們現在 我們"},{"start":843.05,"end":870.133,"text":"我們現在執政黨官員這濫用預算的部分這必定已經是系統性的腐敗這是黃國昌委員之前在質詢的時候就有提出那可是我們勞動部輕描淡寫的回應說公務機關預算之用核銷相當嚴謹如有任何事證可提供檢調或廉政單位依法處理也就是說勞動部整個態度就是認為說如果"},{"start":871.209,"end":894.036,"text":"有任何不法你就去送,那所以他的意思就是說,針對這個事情查無不法,謝謝指教嘛。呃,土偉永,這樣跟土偉永報告齁,其實第一個,我們針對這一場音樂會的部分喔,第一個確實是在新公法方面喔,就是新公法確實是臺灣性別平等,跟我們的勞動法治化裡面非常標誌性的事件。"},{"start":895.356,"end":912.485,"text":"那但是確實在這一個呈現上面呃呈現的形式上面可能大家就對主觀上面會不同的看法也許部分的呈現的橋段其實讓大家觀感不佳這部分我們也在檢討對啊所以所以部長11月24號你們這樣子回覆可是你想想看這個"},{"start":914.386,"end":941.133,"text":"短短的4天之後我們的臺北地檢署就以分他治案來辦理我覺得這真的就是重重打臉我們勞動部前面講的輕描淡寫相當嚴謹如果你查有不法歡迎檢查就是好像說你們內部調查是絕對沒有問題結果地檢署馬上來偵辦你講的沒有錯目前其實檢調正在針對這部分開始月卷跟偵查所以我們也會全力的配合"},{"start":942.014,"end":958.233,"text":"所以我希望我們勞動部以後針對這些發言你看你講的非常嚴謹結果馬上地檢署就來偵辦然後而且在12月3號勞動部自己馬上又承認這個救安基金使用確實有不妥之處"},{"start":959.034,"end":974.085,"text":"所以我不知道說我們勞動部在11月24號這樣子禁制隨便發言那當然那時候部長還沒有來我想那時候其實整直的是說他確實有走過他確實有走經過必要的程序他必要的程序上是有走過"},{"start":974.946,"end":987.436,"text":"但是就項目內容上面合不合宜這部分當然可以檢討我希望部長現在在勞動部針對有時候這些發言真的要謹慎你才短短的發言幾天以後就重重打臉我覺得這對勞動部的發言"},{"start":990.199,"end":995.683,"text":"對我們基本上都是用面對問題的態度來看待這些其實大家的指教我希望部長現在到勞動部針對這部分有針對要好好的來好好的去改善一下而且我們現在針對霸凌難的部分其實之前"},{"start":1016.517,"end":1044.506,"text":"何部長的時候我們就有質詢過因為我們據我們了解啊謝一榮前分署長他擔任小主管的時候並沒有這個霸凌的歷史但是他所受的相關的業務經驗沒有職業訓練沒有就業服務的經驗他就去做這個分署長連很多的媒體各方面大家都說他接這個分署長是做直升機啊那不知道部長你對這個是不是為什麼"},{"start":1045.306,"end":1067.541,"text":"他能夠這樣子破格去升任分署長到底是誰幫他的謝前分署長的升任這事情是事實那我想他在當分署長前他做過哪些職位這也都完全都能夠查得到所以這些相關的升任的這些決策我覺得當然都都要必須接受社會的公平"},{"start":1068.041,"end":1086.978,"text":"因為據我們了解啦其實我們認為今天會發生這霸凌案我們是感覺一個主要原因我們的謝前分署長因為他這對這個業務並不是很熟絡所以他在領導我們這些分署裡面的這些同仁他沒有辦法去領導就瞎指揮"},{"start":1087.618,"end":1087.938,"text":"王安邦前次長"},{"start":1109.068,"end":1133.963,"text":"那可是為什麼這個事情也沒有記錄也沒有去做改善才會導致後面這無緣因為霸凌而親身的事情發生如果當初好好處理就不會發生這件事啊這當然是讓人很遺憾的事情那當然我現在上任以後我的工作就是怎麼讓其實這些相關的案件都可以好好的被處理這是我現在的工作"},{"start":1134.67,"end":1162.649,"text":"因為現在我們希望部長上來真的好好調查因為我們那時候臨時提案有講說要重啟調查當然說本來這次就要提出報告那後來部長也說要到下個禮拜嘛對不對我希望這些報告針對王安邦次長這些事情我覺得應該也要有一個交代因為我們據我們了解二月份而且很多委員都講明明知道之前就約談過而且這個事情真的很奇妙約談的長官"},{"start":1165.171,"end":1182.769,"text":"結果被調職結果被約談的還一直穩坐泰山所以人家一直講這個背後到底有什麼靠山我們勞動部到底還有多少局內人我覺得部長喔要真的好好調查清楚因為你這份報告很重要大家都在關注這份報告"},{"start":1184.091,"end":1195.483,"text":"呃,像杜委員說明,因為其實現在針對比較是在標案或者是採購上面,就經費使用上面的部分,現在檢調在查。那檢調是有請我們針對,假設是針對標案跟採購的部分,請我們先暫緩"},{"start":1200.649,"end":1216.785,"text":"我知道但是我希望針對這個霸凌案這中間還有很多的問題當然希望我們都在等這份報告針對霸凌案的部分我們當然現在就是重啟行政調查好因為這個大家對這個都是有很大的意義哦我一直要講啊"},{"start":1217.786,"end":1244.425,"text":"這個事情早之前可以處理到就像之前去年部長的時候就得到聽到很多的鬼故事而且王航班前次長也去約談過可是居然沒效果結果約談過以後他自己9月突然在晚上11點多被發布離職命令我們大家在笑去約談的主管結果自己被調職被約談的反而穩坐泰山所以這部分我希望給你給我們一個清楚的交代"},{"start":1246.423,"end":1269.476,"text":"我們當然希望能夠完整的把這個事件的前因後果然後尤其是這個災本分署名的事件能夠透過這個重啟調查能夠呈現的清楚部長大家對你來接這個勞動部長雖然大家說爭議很高可是我們也對你期望很深希望能夠把很多沒有辦法調查的事情希望能夠水落石出謝謝主席"}]}},{"id":"157794","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157794","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083605602943b735d4d9fe45dd5fe0ad2124294948cb68dbf16ab11a9d0916dc8a51f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"11:37:11 - 11:46:42","影片長度":"00:09:31","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:37:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:46:42+08:00","duration":571,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.7815937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.68846875,"end":9.818468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.57784375,"end":22.778468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.18346875,"end":26.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.11534375,"end":32.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.93721875,"end":35.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.46409375,"end":43.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.20971875,"end":51.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.83284375,"end":55.971593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.71409375,"end":58.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.85721875,"end":60.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.375968750000006,"end":60.696593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.05096875,"end":62.063468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.025343750000005,"end":69.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.46721875,"end":77.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.49971875,"end":79.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.50346875000001,"end":85.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.15721875,"end":83.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.26221875,"end":87.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.23659375000001,"end":90.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.02096875000001,"end":92.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.33721875,"end":94.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.83471875000001,"end":95.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.30284375000001,"end":99.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.94346875000001,"end":101.71971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.25971875,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.04846875000001,"end":105.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.39846875,"end":105.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.76534375,"end":115.42221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.55721875,"end":116.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.82659375,"end":121.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.18471875,"end":126.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.08284375000001,"end":128.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.39909375000002,"end":135.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.20784375,"end":137.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.03471875,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.11034375,"end":149.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.82159375,"end":156.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.62659375,"end":169.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.84409375,"end":176.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.72034375,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.89721875,"end":182.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.92221875,"end":184.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.23409375,"end":186.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.29284375,"end":189.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.33471875,"end":192.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.06409375,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.38034375,"end":195.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.11409375000002,"end":197.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.61596875,"end":200.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.26534375,"end":201.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.62784375,"end":209.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.02346875,"end":211.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.66034375,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.24221875,"end":216.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.45284375000003,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.98846875,"end":219.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.14846875,"end":220.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.59971875000002,"end":222.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.30409375000002,"end":223.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.87346875,"end":225.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.01659375000003,"end":228.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.22721875000002,"end":230.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.81346875000003,"end":232.95659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.37846875000002,"end":234.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.74096875,"end":236.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.06971875000002,"end":238.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.94284375,"end":243.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.24596875,"end":250.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.87784375,"end":251.01284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.77221875,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.21846875,"end":262.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.24721875,"end":267.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.14096875,"end":271.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.63409375000003,"end":273.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.72659375,"end":273.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.43534375,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.68221875,"end":290.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.12909375000004,"end":290.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.68596875000003,"end":297.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.44846875,"end":299.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.93346875000003,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.84846875,"end":305.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.05909375000005,"end":310.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.37471875,"end":316.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.44971875000005,"end":324.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.60471875,"end":326.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.03471875,"end":334.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.31221875,"end":335.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.33284375,"end":341.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.23909375,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.46221875000003,"end":351.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.51596875,"end":355.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.94159375000004,"end":356.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.21159375,"end":356.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.10596875000005,"end":362.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.40034375000005,"end":364.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.22284375000004,"end":368.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.40784375000004,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.02784375000005,"end":385.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.04659375,"end":387.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.39221875000004,"end":388.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.32034375,"end":394.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.75409375000004,"end":397.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.69034375,"end":438.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.78096875000006,"end":443.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.91096875000005,"end":448.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.58971875000003,"end":450.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.84659375,"end":458.60909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.06471875000005,"end":465.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.59534375000004,"end":466.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.06784375,"end":466.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.15221875000003,"end":481.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.93034375,"end":483.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.56721875000005,"end":484.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.96784375000004,"end":495.76784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.86909375000005,"end":500.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.35346875000005,"end":507.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.41971875,"end":509.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.43221875000006,"end":511.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.84971875,"end":514.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.23284375,"end":526.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.9865937500001,"end":528.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9440937500001,"end":536.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.79096875,"end":540.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.5834687500001,"end":553.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.32846875,"end":555.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.08784375,"end":554.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.1172187500001,"end":558.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.3528437500001,"end":567.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.5247187500001,"end":566.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.28409375,"end":567.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.6215937500001,"end":567.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.37,"end":0.53,"text":"蘇清泉議員"},{"start":5.161,"end":31.507,"text":"部長來我講一個故事給你聽我們的法人醫療法人裡面有一個員工姓謝他是少校少校退伍退伍以後就到我們法人來上班那就在管理部那現在少校退伍都40幾歲了嘛就牽涉到中高齡就業所以我今天講的每一個地方都很tricky"},{"start":32.987,"end":45.872,"text":"我們停車場的管理人是74歲高齡就業所以這樣這一種的中高齡就業、高齡就業我們勞動部要給人獎勵啦要獎勵要撥點預算去獎勵這些這個是要鼓勵企業因為現在到處缺人"},{"start":53.044,"end":69.52,"text":"他這個這個這個這個員工這個同仁他前一陣子跑來找我他說他要離職我跟他說你為什麼要離職他說我看跑不動就業這個要好好珍惜因為你本來就有退休縫了嘛軍售銷退有月退"},{"start":70.541,"end":79.049,"text":"他說他要出去創業,我扯住了,說你要創業?你是在討厭問題嗎?他說要做啥?他說要做茶壇。這是什麼涼水的嗎?現在涼水打了什麼什麼什麼,很多的嗎?要做茶壇,要幫他搬一間茶壇。我說,我問他什麼問題?"},{"start":94.875,"end":111.562,"text":"第一個我說,你的本質學能有沒有比原來這個老闆強?第一個第二個我說,你有沒有比他怕拚?因為要賞咧?飲料要賞,酒要賞,有沒有這樣賞?不然像工讀生賞,你有比他比較怕拚嗎?我看你變大變大了第三個,我問他說"},{"start":123.223,"end":148.126,"text":"他是怎樣才不會做?他說了解了解起來,哇,旁邊四、五大,不一樣的,親親茶良的,有什麼什麼,超多啦,什麼白痴的我講,旁邊那麼多競爭,我講你這三個條件,你有比他更怕拼嗎?你本質學能有比他強嗎?你可以這樣做到暗示十點嗎?再來你有本能要了嗎?"},{"start":151.837,"end":151.917,"text":"同樣的問題"},{"start":180.939,"end":198.793,"text":"我們何佩珊11月22日在這裡說到六四派我當主席嘛流淚流的事我非常不捨我都把他紊亂 把他勾勒他很害怕他也很害怕他說"},{"start":203.652,"end":222.062,"text":"公務體系很僵化這他講的就在上面講這裡到那邊我剛剛給他算了差不多8點多公尺啦我這裡打包到那裡他說很僵化第二個水很深所以他人都無奈那剛剛這一些問題我來請教部長"},{"start":227.148,"end":232.772,"text":"其實我想我非常清楚知道現在勞動部內外面對到的壓力跟狀況其實都有非常非常大的挑戰"},{"start":251.837,"end":272.806,"text":"那行政院在邀請我出任這個職位之後當然我現在決定我決定接受我就是做全部的承擔跟全力以赴所以從我的角度來說我比較不會去想說條件好壞的問題我現在的工作就是全力以赴把問題一步一步的解決"},{"start":274.508,"end":303.231,"text":"就是你碰到的問題就是從早上到現在都是你以前幫勞工幫各界幫職業團體講的話今天大家都一一的拿來給你檢視那你講過的話你自己就要承擔當然那你講過的話你要怎麼解決你要有一些負案那公務體系真的是不好搞啦蠻僵化退不動而且"},{"start":303.991,"end":315.996,"text":"那隊伍那麼龐大我剛剛一個一個勞動力發展署他加上外面的僱員臨時工的800眾室的什麼哈佛隆功加起來就好幾千人"},{"start":317.652,"end":341.17,"text":"裡面都是業聘人員一大堆真的有公務員人才不到五分之一對不對所以很難做嘛所以你現在自己要面對的不一樣做你為親差公共的去跟那些不可以親差公共的對啦我沒有覺得立委都是親差公共的啦沒有啦至少在這邊執行不用負法律責任嘛所以只要負道德責任"},{"start":342.284,"end":355.185,"text":"好那我還有2分23秒啊第二個問題我要問你的就是今天出問題這一這幾間都是救援安定基金嘛那勞動部下面有6個基金對"},{"start":357.219,"end":363.484,"text":"那這個基金舊安定基金收入是298億182萬元支出是273億3000多萬這個是舊安定基金那其他的有勞保的作業基金"},{"start":376.793,"end":384.839,"text":"現在其實勞務下面有6個基金那這6個基金的性質其實跟這個救援基金的性質比較不一樣因為他其實他的收入跟他的尤其是他的"},{"start":403.513,"end":418.989,"text":"這些其他的基金很多他都有固定的給付所以他的性質是比較不一樣那個部分當然他的使用上面是我們的基金運用局在做整體的使用那因為就案基金確實他會成績比較多人比方說會有來自不同的申請"},{"start":419.81,"end":437.616,"text":"包括地方政府也來申請勞工團體公會等等等都會來針對救安定基金如果他符合我們在救福法裡面包括是提升勞工福祉促進國民就業或者是移工相關的管理事務的話他都可以來申請所以他們的性質上面是比較不同"},{"start":438.857,"end":463.156,"text":"所以其他的作業基金應該是不太會出問題啦比較不會不受控阿亂做我想我們業務單位都非常非常嚴謹的在把關對像勞退基金救治變成國安基金在顧股市的什麼的那個有時候要去操作的那個有法治化有很嚴謹嗎"},{"start":464.741,"end":482.299,"text":"跟蘇緣報告齁其實我們在這些其他的基金包括勞保基金包括剛才說新制舊制等等等這些基金包括這個自在保險也有相關的基金這些基金我都已經要求同仁在管理的原則上最重要就是要專業就是用專業那"},{"start":485.671,"end":507.826,"text":"這個有很多管理上面的做法上面我們怎麼樣避免外界不當的干預那尤其是現在逐步的過去確實發生過相關的弊案那但是這幾年也把相關的機制建立的越來越完善這是事實機制的建立已經越來越完善那我現在更要求就是以專業為導向來做這些其他基金運用的管理"},{"start":509.431,"end":511.973,"text":"好 時間到了齁 不能敲鍋齁"},{"start":518.473,"end":544.92,"text":"我對洪部長到從立委跑到勞動部去我也是替你爭亂啦我希望好好的做啦各個署各個司要督促我想你當一個政務官就是要好好的盯啊盯住齁那下面的要慢慢改啦事實上"},{"start":545.68,"end":567.497,"text":"有些有些看起來真的是蠻蠻僵化蠻不好推的齁但是你還是要排除萬難啦謝謝謝謝謝謝蘇委員鼓勵如果總統行政黨支持你那你就好好幹嘛我覺得最重要的是要讓勞工朋友也能夠信任我們然後包括我們部內的同仁能夠信任我想這是最重要的更重要的加油加油"}]}},{"id":"157825","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157825","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836064dab75a77823154e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a1061d84deb0c5e6415a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"13:29:11 - 13:40:30","影片長度":"00:11:19","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:29:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:40:30+08:00","duration":679,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.704718750000001,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.18971875,"end":10.763468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.84221875,"end":20.348468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.56784375,"end":21.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.10346875,"end":23.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.63471875,"end":25.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.25909375,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.300968750000003,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.85346875,"end":29.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.42721875,"end":30.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.025968750000004,"end":32.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.924093750000004,"end":37.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.72971875,"end":43.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.34909375,"end":47.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.52971875,"end":55.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.43596875,"end":54.672218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.055968750000005,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.916593750000004,"end":58.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.055343750000006,"end":60.46034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.422218750000006,"end":62.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.75534375,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.39221875,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.31596875000001,"end":67.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.99471875,"end":71.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.96909375,"end":73.90971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.97721875,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.07846875,"end":78.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.34346875,"end":82.54971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.17409375000001,"end":86.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.32971875000001,"end":89.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.19409375000001,"end":92.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.18534375,"end":94.54784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.10471875,"end":99.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.63159375000001,"end":99.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.09971875000001,"end":106.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.28846875,"end":110.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.11909375,"end":117.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.93659375000001,"end":118.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.65784375000001,"end":127.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.09971875000001,"end":128.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.34846875,"end":130.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.36909375000002,"end":134.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.31346875,"end":139.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.80659375000002,"end":140.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.01721875,"end":147.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.17659375000002,"end":149.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.86409375000002,"end":152.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.39534375000002,"end":152.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.73284375,"end":152.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.90159375000002,"end":153.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.96471875,"end":156.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.45784375000002,"end":166.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.55346875,"end":167.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.51534375,"end":175.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.29471875000002,"end":175.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.32846875,"end":178.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.54784375,"end":175.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.83034375,"end":177.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.31096875,"end":182.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.07409375,"end":187.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.42346875,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.72659375,"end":193.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.80659375000002,"end":194.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.83596875,"end":195.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.86534375000002,"end":198.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.71284375000002,"end":201.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.51409375,"end":203.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.87659375,"end":208.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.38659375,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.39846875,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.39409375000002,"end":216.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.97596875000002,"end":217.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.66346875000002,"end":219.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.45659375000002,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.35096875000002,"end":228.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.44659375,"end":229.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.90221875,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.60659375,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.71596875,"end":234.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.84659375,"end":237.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.42846875,"end":239.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.60534375,"end":240.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.90034375000002,"end":243.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.24596875,"end":244.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.26284375,"end":246.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.30034375000002,"end":248.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.62471875000003,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.59471875000003,"end":256.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.83471875000004,"end":259.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.10846875000004,"end":261.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.93096875000003,"end":270.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.43596875000003,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.64659375,"end":275.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.32534375,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.96659375,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.36284375,"end":283.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.60284375000003,"end":283.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.32846875,"end":283.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.37909375000004,"end":283.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.46346875,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":283.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.75034375,"end":283.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.76721875000004,"end":284.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.95284375,"end":284.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.10034375000004,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.90596875,"end":287.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.03659375,"end":289.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.85909375,"end":292.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.71096875,"end":294.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.59659375,"end":296.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.60909375,"end":297.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.90846875,"end":299.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.59596875,"end":301.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.78971875,"end":306.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.40471875000003,"end":309.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.95284375,"end":312.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.91034375000004,"end":314.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.03659375,"end":316.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.65659375,"end":318.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.98534375,"end":321.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.93846875,"end":330.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.27034375,"end":336.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.94034375,"end":337.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.57721875000004,"end":345.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.02346875,"end":346.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.27659375,"end":345.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.20034375,"end":348.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.07346875,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.20846875,"end":350.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.65534375000004,"end":354.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.00971875000005,"end":352.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.42284375,"end":357.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.71346875,"end":359.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.68784375,"end":361.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.88596875,"end":361.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.54409375,"end":362.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.86034375,"end":365.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.50971875000005,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.58409375,"end":381.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.77721875000003,"end":382.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.99221875,"end":385.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.22409375,"end":384.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.50221875,"end":393.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.86846875000003,"end":392.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.03284375000004,"end":400.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.53784375000004,"end":408.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.36346875000004,"end":411.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.21534375000005,"end":417.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.37909375000004,"end":420.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.11284375,"end":422.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.59784375000004,"end":424.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.96034375000005,"end":426.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.79971875,"end":438.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.21971875,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.74284375,"end":441.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.05471875,"end":443.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.91534375000003,"end":458.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.84534375000004,"end":461.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.56221875000006,"end":486.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.50346875,"end":490.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.83596875,"end":496.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.67909375000005,"end":497.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.25284375,"end":497.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.32034375,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.02909375,"end":498.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.70409375,"end":498.72096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.72096875000005,"end":500.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.39159375,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.28596875000005,"end":501.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.00721875000005,"end":503.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.41221875,"end":504.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.88034375,"end":509.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.24659375000005,"end":515.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.6128437500001,"end":524.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.6159687500001,"end":527.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.9653437500001,"end":529.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.12534375,"end":530.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.83409375,"end":531.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.0828437499999,"end":534.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1540937500001,"end":536.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.4197187500001,"end":540.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.85346875,"end":547.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.9115937500001,"end":549.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.68346875,"end":551.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.0290937500001,"end":553.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.3915937500001,"end":558.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.86346875,"end":561.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.1415937500001,"end":561.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.78284375,"end":567.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.58784375,"end":569.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.39346875,"end":569.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.4272187500001,"end":569.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.4440937500001,"end":570.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.0347187500001,"end":570.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.0515937499999,"end":570.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.3047187500001,"end":573.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":573.6628437500001,"end":574.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.1140937499999,"end":576.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.3415937500001,"end":579.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.1428437500001,"end":580.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.8684687500001,"end":593.9128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.11971875,"end":594.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.30096875,"end":594.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.9422187499999,"end":597.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.3972187500001,"end":600.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.6753437500001,"end":604.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.2022187499999,"end":607.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.32409375,"end":609.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.64034375,"end":610.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.3828437500001,"end":611.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.5134687500001,"end":612.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.96034375,"end":617.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.2553437500001,"end":616.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.9597187500001,"end":619.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.15346875,"end":621.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.6384687500001,"end":624.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.94596875,"end":625.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.0134687500001,"end":628.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.04659375,"end":631.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.0165937500001,"end":634.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.7547187499999,"end":641.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.94346875,"end":645.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.79096875,"end":649.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.53284375,"end":655.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.2703437499999,"end":656.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.9578437499999,"end":660.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.1640937500001,"end":661.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.2734687500001,"end":663.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.1128437500001,"end":665.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.44159375,"end":668.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.82096875,"end":670.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.8078437500001,"end":672.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.7022187500002,"end":673.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.3515937500001,"end":676.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.71846875,"end":678.1528437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.717,"end":10.599,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長黃部長你好我請教一下是你接任部長是院長直接打給你還是老柯打給你"},{"start":35.896,"end":36.016,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":61.465,"end":65.379,"text":"他沒有跟你說 發表一個好處 跟你糾葛 都沒有所以 柯金明沒有祝福你"},{"start":70.291,"end":77.713,"text":"這個委員可以問柯總知道嗎?誰都沒有就對了奇怪你這麼重要你今天會做不到老實講就是柯建民給你很大的花費空間了花帕花種這樣種在地上不是出賣自己的靈魂拚到哭哭病才有這個部長是不是這樣"},{"start":92.256,"end":115.721,"text":"當然第一個這是行政人邀請我那跟其他的我覺得都沒有什麼太當然有啊你這個出賣靈魂有名的啊三接就是最好的例子雖然你解釋什麼天然氣那叫歪理你明明是環保的運動人士結果三接要保護藻礁結果你又後調就是為了民進黨的黨意"},{"start":119.922,"end":126.628,"text":"這個人可以為了黨意出賣自己的靈魂一輩子就奮鬥你會反團這個東西你這樣子就會讓我們覺得說你做這個補丟就不可能期待太多因為隨時都會出賣靈魂你講什麼你不要理我頭你說理我頭我怎麼知道你的意思那個"},{"start":142.199,"end":155.959,"text":"我現在因為我現在身份我就覺得我已經我不是很適合去談什麼三接不三接我現在的身份不一定很適合去談這些問題但是你過了經理都要談了我們當然有有權利來來提出質疑"},{"start":157.461,"end":161.864,"text":"你知道嗎你知道嗎現在因為謝宜龍的事情讓執政黨不滿意度人家處理民調最新的民調今天的民調45.6%不滿意的"},{"start":188.462,"end":211.641,"text":"你下來面對兩個一個很大的問題第一個 霸凌的事情第二個 你的這個就業安定基金急軟又有個待機這兩個問題 我就第一個先問你喔霸凌的事情喔 我也去跟你們勞動部要資料啊 你們都不給啊好多立委都反應要資料都不給啊 然後你們的次長"},{"start":213.444,"end":217.487,"text":"好像是那位帥哥 戴恩基是不是我這裡問了什麼名字 次長是吧請問你次長是吧 呃 署長還是次長我不知道是你還是很像 面對鏡頭說因為送給減掉了所以不給立委 是你講的嗎 不是齁 人家次長這樣講公開的勞動部的次長公開說人家在質疑啊 這個媒體質疑說為什麼立委要不到資料 因為減掉"},{"start":241.923,"end":243.164,"text":"我跟賴委員說明齁跟賴委員說明齁現在在"},{"start":250.983,"end":275.669,"text":"現在在檢調確實有來調卷那檢調清楚讓我們知道說針對採購跟標案的部分希望我們暫緩內部的行政調查但霸凌的事情的本身或不當管理的事情本身的話我們是可以我們是在做行政相關行政調查的那為什麼立委要不到資料我可能跟賴委員再確認一下是什麼樣的資料好不好"},{"start":276.363,"end":294.271,"text":"好幾個立委反映的都用不到資料但是我說要確認一下那個資料的標的是什麼但確實如果是跟820來這樣子好了喔你是來自於這個很走基層的啦喔環保的這個團體這樣奮鬥的來自於立委都是非常基層的"},{"start":295.652,"end":306.848,"text":"你要不要因為你們現在調查都會關關相護大家擔心關關相護就是上面一直壓底下來今天就是關關相護啊才出了一個謝宜龍的事情啊你要不要公開承諾"},{"start":311.004,"end":337.51,"text":"你這段時間兩個禮拜以內你的信箱全部打開讓所有的人跟你分立在勞動部裡面跟你分立全部open給大家賴委員說明我其實在上任上週其實就已經提供給我們基層一個我專屬的信箱跟手機的號碼其實這幾天的時間一個多禮拜的時間裡面其實蠻多部內的同仁就跟我們反映過各種建議其實就有了"},{"start":338.63,"end":345.84,"text":"其實我就是希望要讓因為這有點在這個非常時期裡面在這非常時期裡面直接就可以讓我們你這個open的時間多長從上禮拜二要準備維持多久"},{"start":351.864,"end":374.357,"text":"我們其實現在還是但是我跟大人說我覺得不要不需要什麼前面的就是比如說一個月或者兩個月以內我跟大人說明我也收到很多人家跟你們控訴的資料只是我還在整理啊因為這些資料坦白說現在就是說這個方法我知道這是一個特別特別時期的做法這不是一個長久的機制"},{"start":375.638,"end":376.318,"text":"現在大家懷疑高度遮影你的就業安全基金我仔細的讀了一下讀了好幾遍"},{"start":401.941,"end":408.57,"text":"這個包括許明春這個用他的這個錢去開演唱會啊這個奇奇怪怪的錢花了八千多萬啊你們沒有法則欸說濫用就業安定基金沒有法則"},{"start":418.427,"end":438.008,"text":"沒有罰者主事者就是勞動部長主席是勞動部長然後我翻篇了所有的辦法說被挪用了被不正當的使用了有沒有處罰沒有任何的處罰就變成你們的小金庫安安用你的錢去手伸進去拿你知道現在多少錢你知道嗎我知道多少錢你講一下多少錢"},{"start":442.19,"end":443.67,"text":"四百多億四百多億啊四百多億的金庫然後亂用一通沒有任何的罰則也不用付刑責也不用付賠償什麼都不用所以歷屆的勞動部長"},{"start":458.888,"end":485.53,"text":"那個跟賴委員說明齁現在在救援安定基金裡面其實有涉及到標案跟採購的部分檢調現在也在調閱我們會全力配合但是他違法不違法坦白說我們自己沒有辦法自己就說這是違法不違法這確實是需要有一定的司法單位來去做判定我們都會全力配合那我也說了只要有不法具體的不法事證該送證封的該送檢調的我們都不會護短"},{"start":488.812,"end":508.253,"text":"這些包括上一任的部長那個人相關的只要有涉及到不法事項的該送你還不要在這個場合公開承諾你不會去動用他一毛錢可以嗎那個不是私人用你當然公家的不一樣私人去用他我私人絕對不會"},{"start":510.287,"end":533.909,"text":"不要用其他名譽去動他一毛錢包括用他的錢去送禮那什麼都不會用這個跟賴委員說明我們在上任的第二天其實就已經針對部內的這個不當的送禮文化其實跟基層說明我們不搞這一套了時間到了我很快的把其他的小問題問完了這個勞保年金我們撥補了兩千六百多億兩千五百多億"},{"start":535.219,"end":561.09,"text":"明年還要撥一千三百億等於撥了三千多億快四千億了我們的負債十三兆每人的備債五十六萬這是勞保年金的改革好分工了我們可以下一頁你再當立委你有連署喔你剛才沒有回答牛委員的一個問題我現在就希望你明確回答你支不支持勞保的財務政府付最終的責任"},{"start":562.424,"end":579.02,"text":"現在的政策就是勞保的財務是政府來負最終責現在政策就是沒有立法喔對但是我說現在政策就是我希望你承諾嘛你去提案你提案就容易通過嘛我們勞動部來推動立法嗎"},{"start":581.222,"end":596.585,"text":"現在的政策就是不管有入法沒入法我現在勞動部的做法上面跟行政院我們就是用這個方向來執行我們的政策的不管有入法沒入法現在就是這樣做的最後一個小問題那個五一勞動節戰不戰成全國放假這個要你問啊要你回答你是勞動部的啊我問了人事長他說問你你說要問他我到底是誰"},{"start":609.65,"end":610.57,"text":"我們會來跟人事單位做一些討論。"},{"start":632.045,"end":633.446,"text":"因為這涉及到其他部會的權責所以我們願意跟他們來討論"},{"start":655.307,"end":655.487,"text":"謝謝委員指教"}]}},{"id":"157820","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157820","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d988c93a8b8d18a2e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a106855b1c4d5317d4a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"13:23:56 - 13:29:04","影片長度":"00:05:08","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:23:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:29:04+08:00","duration":308,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.33846875,"end":4.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.148468750000001,"end":4.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.459093750000001,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.57284375,"end":16.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.43346875,"end":27.351593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.579093750000002,"end":35.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.16471875,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.07596875,"end":36.227843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.59909375,"end":37.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.32784375,"end":44.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.13784375,"end":47.213468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.820968750000006,"end":65.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.56909375000001,"end":66.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.34534375,"end":73.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.69034375000001,"end":92.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.21471875,"end":99.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.43721875,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.82909375,"end":147.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.61971875,"end":178.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.26159375,"end":172.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.47659375,"end":173.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.70346875,"end":182.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.65221875,"end":200.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.11096875,"end":190.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.57909375,"end":191.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.97096875000003,"end":196.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.40471875,"end":203.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.61096875,"end":216.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.48659375000003,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.45659375000002,"end":227.52284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.09659375,"end":230.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.49284375000002,"end":244.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.69409375,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.44846875000002,"end":245.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.42284375000003,"end":287.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.37409375000004,"end":307.30784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.302,"end":5.103,"text":"謝謝主席,紅部長有請部長午安,針對802我只問一件事,就剛剛講這麼多案例,顯然社會大眾對於行政端的內部調查還是缺乏信心,你知不支持國會用聽證調查的方式來處理這個事?"},{"start":29.882,"end":46.293,"text":"這是國會的...國會在這支援心法裡面行使的權益當然我們都尊重阿一樣你跟何前部長一樣就四個字尊重國會這樣嗎這個是你要不要積極配合這個是國會的權限阿是國會的權限如果成立你會不會積極配合就算國會不調查我們也會積極調查"},{"start":48.041,"end":65.373,"text":"這你調查跟我們調查不太一樣但我剛講就之所以公部門會這麼多人然後大家對行政調查害怕就是因為公部門內部有他的文化這我想您也擔任過立委其實溝通也都了解今天不管國會調查不調查或國會用什麼態度我們都會積極調查積極調查那我希望未來如果有機會你要配合國會調查可以嗎"},{"start":66.601,"end":91.542,"text":"就是按照法治法規來但行政部門當然該配合的就必須配合啊該配合就必須配合好這個你除了要處理這個霸凌的這個爛攤子之外你現在很多工作要做啊這個本席一直都非常關心勞工放假的問題啊這個稍早不管是民眾黨陳昭志委員或國民黨廖偉祥委員其實大家都有去提到您過去在綠盟的期間對於這個我們國家的放假政策多有指教這個包含這個"},{"start":93.884,"end":109.001,"text":"2016年10月25號在蠻蠻不錯的你說勞基法修法應該增加負載吃緊緊急假日就如果說空污很嚴重啊電廠要稅休的時候乾脆就大家來放假給勞工多放一天假然後還可以幫台灣省省電這是你2016年講過的2016年10月你講說7天假不應該跟週休日掛鉤啊"},{"start":113.186,"end":129.426,"text":"掛鉤是政黨的權力操作左手給右手拿應該要切開來不應該這樣處理2017年你評論勞基法二修修二說灌老闆在一例一修之外又得到了彈性工時的後門順手再砍掉7天的國定假日這樣就沒有申訴了灌老闆一家獨贏啊"},{"start":130.928,"end":147.257,"text":"那其他我就不多再贅述,包含到最近你代表民進黨,那時候你還是副幹事長嘛,代表民進黨出席這個五一勞工的遊行,這個當台下高呼勞工團體跟這個協安勞工高呼還我七天假的時候,你說把這個聲音帶回去,現在也不用帶回去了,應該很清楚了吧?"},{"start":147.797,"end":165.564,"text":"接下來這是你打算怎麼處理在勞工放假的部分你是要贊成我們把7天國定假日恢復回來這是一種還是你要用比如說勞基法修訂增加特休假也是一種或者是我剛剛舉例你都講了有所謂的這個負載吃緊假或者是剛剛有委員提到的所謂的身心調適假新增價別你要用哪一種方式來把這個"},{"start":166.744,"end":168.986,"text":"我當然支持讓勞工降低工時的負擔但確實現在關於期間假的討論這當然就涉及到國定假日調整的問題"},{"start":182.697,"end":202.835,"text":"確實現在我要跟大家說 國定價值調整的問題現在是在今天節日實施辦法的法規裡面這其實是內政部主管的法規我們其實是內政委員會的委員我當然還先藉質詢的時間趕快問一下勞動部的態度我們當然願意把勞工的各種聲音反映給內政部各種聲音反映給內政部 所以你會怎麼反映給內政部"},{"start":203.666,"end":218.771,"text":"就是各種就只要是勞工勞方來的各種聲音或期待反映給內政部啊現在勞團大部分的勞基本上不分這個屬性啦大部分的勞團都主張恢復期間假你會把這樣的主張帶給內政部嗎該反映就反映啊該反映就反映一天都不少"},{"start":220.112,"end":240.249,"text":"就是該反應給內政部就讓大家知道說確實現在很多工會對這事情的看法是什麼該反應就反應啊該反應就反應你會不會幫忙堅持如果說其他部會有壓力經濟部有意見啊對不對或是其他人有意見然後要求你退卻的時候你會不會守穩勞動部長立場堅持站在這個這個法規目前的主管還是在內政部手上討論的平台會在內政委會沒有錯我們把意見會反應給當然反應給專關主管的部會嗎這個有一點"},{"start":246.534,"end":264.725,"text":"算是勉強算是有回答啦但是跟這個你在民間毫無包袱的時代顯然有蠻巨大的落差我們希望看到的是2016年2017年的這個洪森漢副秘書長這樣子的態度你現在站在勞動部的部長的位置你就守好勞工的立場這是本席給你的期許這第一個第二個"},{"start":265.845,"end":287.033,"text":"這個前任部長何佩珊上任的時候我們討論勞保年金改革的問題那他們講說撥補也是改革政府本來就要負最終支付責任那當然嘛這是一個政策宣示那當然很多的勞工團體跟勞工朋友都非常關心這樣的事情那現在這個因為特殊的狀況何佩珊部長就因故去職了那新的你上任之後這樣子的一個政策方向會不會維持"},{"start":288.41,"end":306.83,"text":"請你給大家一個說法呃我想現在政策就是政府會負最終責任現在政策就是明確的就是會負最終責任吼現在的政策面就是政府是負最終的責任所以包括也是因為要政府負最終責任所以包括現在包括撥補等等等是去負這個責任的做法制這樣的方向不會改變對不對不會OK好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"157828","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157828","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d933e75d22afb9a8e45dd5fe0ad21242d33acae7c847dfd3263c0903a4778e8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"13:56:15 - 14:09:47","影片長度":"00:13:32","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:56:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T14:09:47+08:00","duration":812,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.181593750000001,"end":10.712843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.31096875,"end":18.559718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.16721875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.879718750000002,"end":24.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.15784375,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.34221875,"end":34.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.59096875,"end":37.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.69159375,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.85159375,"end":41.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.28596875,"end":44.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.32346875,"end":46.454093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.17971875,"end":53.727218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.01409375,"end":57.844718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.51971875,"end":67.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.22284375000001,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.02846875,"end":71.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.95221875,"end":72.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.82534375,"end":74.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.14159375,"end":75.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.93034375,"end":80.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.81159375,"end":86.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.51534375,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.34909375000001,"end":100.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.99409375,"end":106.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.86221875000001,"end":108.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.22909375,"end":114.79784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.31659375000001,"end":118.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.48909375000001,"end":120.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.26096875,"end":121.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.39159375000001,"end":123.21846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.87659375000001,"end":124.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.63159375000001,"end":126.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.38659375,"end":128.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.22596875000002,"end":129.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.35659375,"end":131.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.88784375,"end":133.93409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.65971875,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.38096875000002,"end":137.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.28784375,"end":139.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.97096875,"end":141.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.20284375,"end":143.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.41784375,"end":143.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.34596875,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.36284375,"end":144.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.86909375000002,"end":144.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.95346875,"end":144.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.97034375,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.03784375,"end":145.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.67909375000002,"end":153.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.33221875,"end":162.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.00221875,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.38096875000002,"end":168.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.52784375000002,"end":169.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.38409375,"end":175.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.54346875000002,"end":181.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.58534375000002,"end":178.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.09534375,"end":183.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.67721875,"end":191.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.18721875,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.69284375,"end":193.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.02596875,"end":200.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.76721875,"end":208.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.40784375,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.06596875000002,"end":208.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.08284375000002,"end":208.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.97721875000002,"end":212.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.31409375,"end":220.68846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.02159375000002,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.06346875000003,"end":226.66221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.96596875,"end":228.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.27784375000002,"end":231.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.09159375000002,"end":250.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.38409375,"end":252.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.98721875,"end":258.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.14659375,"end":260.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.71596875,"end":270.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.65096875,"end":272.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.24971875,"end":275.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.64596875,"end":277.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.77221875000004,"end":280.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.56096875000003,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.70409375,"end":284.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.01596875,"end":285.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.87659375000004,"end":293.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.02721875000003,"end":297.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.27971875000003,"end":305.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.63721875000005,"end":306.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.59471875,"end":309.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.32846875,"end":311.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.72909375,"end":322.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.29284375000003,"end":326.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.56221875,"end":328.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.24534375,"end":338.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.34096875,"end":339.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.88909375000003,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.92284375,"end":344.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.29409375,"end":342.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.50034375,"end":353.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.61409375,"end":346.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.95034375,"end":354.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.94596875,"end":356.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.97096875,"end":357.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.76409375000003,"end":359.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.31659375000004,"end":360.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.86909375000005,"end":365.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.43784375,"end":369.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.85909375,"end":382.73909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.52784375000005,"end":385.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.51471875000004,"end":395.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.26471875000004,"end":401.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.22971875,"end":404.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.46971875,"end":415.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.32034375,"end":420.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.72034375000004,"end":422.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.15909375,"end":422.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.20971875000004,"end":422.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.22659375,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.26034375,"end":422.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.93846875,"end":431.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.72721875,"end":436.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.82346875,"end":438.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.54034375000003,"end":440.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.12659375000004,"end":447.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.36534375,"end":456.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.82034375,"end":459.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.10659375,"end":463.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.26659375,"end":464.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.82284375,"end":469.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.35409375,"end":470.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.16409375,"end":471.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.14284375000005,"end":473.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.48846875000004,"end":475.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.17596875000004,"end":477.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.92221875,"end":484.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.59659375,"end":486.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.21659375,"end":495.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.97034375000004,"end":497.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.28221875,"end":502.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.59784375000004,"end":505.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.34846875000005,"end":507.81659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.47471875,"end":509.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.14534375000005,"end":511.29284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.2040937500001,"end":513.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.38534375,"end":513.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.1615937500001,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.0390937500001,"end":515.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.11909375,"end":522.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.0759687500001,"end":532.6397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.04159375,"end":526.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.7703437499999,"end":538.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.90034375,"end":545.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.02159375,"end":546.9834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.3715937500001,"end":548.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.29534375,"end":551.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.10909375,"end":556.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.5009687500001,"end":557.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.2434687500001,"end":572.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.49846875,"end":582.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.32409375,"end":582.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.91034375,"end":583.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.5347187500001,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.71596875,"end":585.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.83784375,"end":588.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.49596875,"end":588.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.7153437500001,"end":594.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.30096875,"end":596.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.93784375,"end":597.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.22034375,"end":600.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.5403437500001,"end":602.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.9240937500001,"end":604.0547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.1897187500001,"end":618.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.02721875,"end":618.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.06096875,"end":618.7022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.7022187499999,"end":628.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.56221875,"end":631.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.00409375,"end":633.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.55659375,"end":637.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":638.14221875,"end":642.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.3234687500001,"end":640.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.39471875,"end":651.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.82784375,"end":656.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.31659375,"end":661.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.1340937500001,"end":665.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.0828437499999,"end":675.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.72284375,"end":680.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.6840937500001,"end":681.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.89909375,"end":684.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.39221875,"end":686.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.7253437500001,"end":689.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.79659375,"end":693.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.09971875,"end":695.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.1415937500001,"end":705.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.1484687500001,"end":709.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.9453437500001,"end":710.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.02534375,"end":714.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.2947187500001,"end":719.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.0365937500001,"end":725.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.17909375,"end":727.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.3559687500001,"end":737.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.40096875,"end":743.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.7378437500001,"end":741.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.8640937499999,"end":746.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.89784375,"end":744.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.6528437500001,"end":756.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.9522187500002,"end":747.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.23471875,"end":751.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.92596875,"end":753.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":756.67221875,"end":767.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.80721875,"end":757.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.71346875,"end":764.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.84346875,"end":771.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.60659375,"end":783.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.3134687500001,"end":785.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.83221875,"end":788.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.02596875,"end":797.4422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":798.9272187500001,"end":799.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.73721875,"end":804.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.7109687500001,"end":808.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.82846875,"end":810.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.97596875,"end":811.6172187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.24,"end":37.259,"text":"好 是不是有請召委 有請部長各位好部長好 部長請問一下你是局內人還是民演人還是賴清德派來的要清掃局系的清道夫我們跑一波影看一下 局內人 民演人 清道夫"},{"start":38.889,"end":43.173,"text":"我眼睛開過刀眼睛開過刀針對問題回答嗎"},{"start":47.233,"end":72.321,"text":"我現在就是勞動部長我想我要告訴你你在這個過程當中你有很多的資料為什麼外界可以馬上知道有人說是因為勞動部裡面有很多的局係他們都會把相關的資料來讓我們外界知道但我要說的是外界都在放大關注你的一舉一動今天的專題報告扣掉封面三張A4"},{"start":73.871,"end":96.371,"text":"了無新意夫言了事上一份報告說遭受職場霸凌情勢的得向本部機關長官單位主管人事提出申訴跟通報今天的報告說完善了申訴制度申訴管道多元化明訂申訴電話傳真電子信箱專用信箱等申訴管道請問部長"},{"start":97.432,"end":126.315,"text":"我個人認為這些文字上沒有什麼太大的差異就這幾天來說我看到你最大的政策就是公佈了你的電話就這樣而已所以請問我們部長上任第10天你是馬上被官僚的系統說服了嗎?針對政府部門霸凌案卓院長態度非常強硬好人他在做說一個禮拜"},{"start":127.443,"end":143.002,"text":"再給你多一個禮拜就是今天今天所有的委員都在說好聽話他在講真正做不出來又是一回事到底是他講好聽話敷衍人民還是你的能力有問題"},{"start":144.38,"end":168.765,"text":"到底誰要道歉跟羅廷說明齁其實從我上任上禮拜就馬上在進行重啟調查的準備工作我都有看你也有加碼去邀請一些人來做一個訪問我都知道可是我的意思是說卓院長對外公布講得這麼好聽一個禮拜處理我們引頸期盼結果換來的是又一個禮拜好因為你上任可以體諒"},{"start":170.444,"end":182.904,"text":"再給你一個禮拜現在又不行又要下個禮拜下個禮拜是禮拜一還是禮拜五我們下個禮拜公佈我也希望盡快下個禮拜是禮拜一還是禮拜五我們也希望盡快那可不可以禮拜一"},{"start":188.349,"end":200.404,"text":"所以我要講的是每一個文字自制都要到重點而不是卓院長講的很好聽我們引起期盼結果現在做不到所以現在是卓院長要道歉還是你要道歉"},{"start":202.813,"end":231.218,"text":"那個羅永我們現在的工作就是把這個調查希望盡力的部長今天來到未完委員會喔我們是來專案報告不是來聽你講鬼故事的今天喔我們大家都知道也有昭之委員也有提到你之前在所謂的鬼故事在政論節目有提到你跟誰反映你也不願意去公佈你跟誰反映到現在你還不願意說出嗎當時你所謂的聽到鬼故事"},{"start":233.177,"end":257.651,"text":"沈大豪問你你跟誰反應你就說勞動部的高層到今天我想問的是縱容而且默許甚至沒有作為我先不提到你當你反應到了這些人當中他們沒有作為沒有去及時的反應處理這件事情這些人你還不公佈所以我再一次問你在政論節目你所提到的你有向上反應鬼故事那個人是誰"},{"start":259.158,"end":272.447,"text":"我向勞動部反映你還是講勞動部嘛你不講人民嘛勞動部就是一個機關這個機關有什麼人你不願意講這就是官官相護嘛這就是官僚嘛才10天我們見義勇為紅委員不見了變官僚體系的紅部長這就是東扯西扯"},{"start":285.123,"end":306.569,"text":"所以你到底是紅委員還是紅部長今天在我們這邊備詢的是紅部長還是紅委員民眾心中自有一把尺所以不要一直在那邊東扯西扯沒有行政權也給你行政權了現在你還調查不出來好給你加碼時間問你一些細節你不願意說我要再一次提醒部長"},{"start":307.642,"end":328.095,"text":"你坐在這裡你是紅部長不是紅委員整個勞動部閨女館現在都有行政權還查不出來或者是還不願意透露細節讓全民知道當部長就是一個很好的照妖鏡走過的路一路一路都會幫你檢視出來第二個我要跟你探討一件事"},{"start":329.398,"end":339.123,"text":"紅部長 院長對你這麼器重想請問一下你知道救安基金的用途有哪些嗎我相信有其他的委員都問過你了你可以講大概幾項嗎"},{"start":340.896,"end":347.02,"text":"好當然我無疑刁難吼那我們先看一下這個報導所指出的相關福邊濫用的這些列舉出來吼可以看到今天我們大家都在琢磨就業安定基金"},{"start":370.956,"end":382.452,"text":"用在裝潢用在一些狗屁刀招的事情花了人民的納稅錢這是我們現在最生氣的一件事情請問聽許明春唱歌是提升勞工福祉嗎部長你覺得是嗎"},{"start":387.517,"end":414.859,"text":"那個跟羅委員報告齁其實現在在救安基金的支用的機制我知道你會說合宜合法沒關係我都可以我都聽過了但是我現在講是民眾觀感不佳就是部分有部分的橋段我不管合不合宜啊當列舉出來就業安定基金民眾的大觀感就是覺得他是應該使用在勞工福利"},{"start":416.38,"end":438.095,"text":"但我們聽許明春唱歌可以提供勞工福祉嗎?你直接告訴我可以跟不可以你覺得還有讓勞工提升福祉嗎?有讓外界觀感不佳的地方我當然會檢討這就是我們要的答案所以我們不要東扯西扯就直接就問題來回答那再來我問你外籍移工被遣返"},{"start":439.988,"end":447.614,"text":"從1月到現在所支出的就業安定基金的費用、機票費給這些外籍移工遣返的費用累積到多少錢了?詳細的數字我們可能在跟業務單位確認到現在還在業務單位確認就業安定基金今天一整天都在考這一題現在問你一個數字你們還不知道還沒有人上來救啊隨便google查一下"},{"start":470.407,"end":477.496,"text":"移工、機票、就業安定基金一到十月媒體報導說三千多萬"},{"start":479.96,"end":506.675,"text":"我先問一下部長你知不知道就業安定基金被挪用作為移工遣返的機票費用?跟委員報告因為這其實涉及整體用移工管理的事務在法定上面移工管理的事務是可以致用的我當然知道又是合宜不合宜嘛觀感不佳而已啊但是我現在的問題是移民署現在抓到的這些移工移民署現在用救福法60條來跟你講"},{"start":510.385,"end":537.762,"text":"說你要來買單那你編公務預算啊你為什麼用就業安定基金那個因為我們救福法裡面其實就有說勞工移工管理相關的事務那你就應該編列公務預算正常之印我支持你我沒有說不行但是不要用在就業安定基金因為人民的觀感真的很不好我們應該要跟現在你有行政權你應該要反映行政院"},{"start":538.939,"end":551.714,"text":"移工遣返的問題已經越來越大宗甚至有的因為時間快到了他已經沒有居留權他現在有很多人就直接檢舉他買機票不用擔心因為政府會幫他出所以就有所謂的開始檢舉的這個亂象"},{"start":556.607,"end":585.632,"text":"那個我支持抓移工違法的移工但是我現在問題是用就業安定基金不斷的支出我剛剛問你一到十月三千多萬就業安定基金來支應所謂的移工機票遣返你覺得合理嗎那個論其實在就服法的60條裡面就有講到說這個移工遣返由就安安定基金先行電付這是在魔法那你有還他錢了嗎電付以後要不要先再還他錢"},{"start":589.028,"end":602.398,"text":"我們會讓我們我們有因為在法規裡面是這樣明定的所以我們也會有電付的責任但能是電付還是直接支我們會有先行電付的先行電付有沒有還就業安定基金這是重點啊所以我要講的是"},{"start":603.058,"end":618.889,"text":"不管是電付不管是資印你如果是資印你也確定要用資印你把它排公務預算我支持你去修法你用就業安定基金今天我點出的問題你不要告訴我法這樣定民眾觀感能接受嗎而現在亂象出來了我們不用修法嗎"},{"start":619.75,"end":626.479,"text":"我剛剛有提到他用救福法60條我都知道是救福法60條但我要講的是民眾觀感不佳我跟部長講那我點出問題您願不願意回去討論有可能要又來修法嗎這不是我的手機"},{"start":638.234,"end":664.626,"text":"我們的行政部門現在確實必須是按照救福法60條裡面來去做執行我懂但是民眾觀感不佳媒體報導出來以後直接給你下一個大標說就業安定基金使用在這個上面上全民都覺得很憤慨要修法要去改變這就是你要改革我們要你來當紅部長就是希望你有所突破啊所以今天我提出這個問題我剛剛一開始就開宗明義講移民署直接用救福法60條"},{"start":667.128,"end":683.701,"text":"他用的是合法我沒有說不合法但是合不合宜民眾官板加不加這是我們要後續要探討的一個問題所以我想各部會用救安基金一直挖錢出去一直搬出去給各部會用部長為什麼勞動部要一直給面子給各部會"},{"start":685.558,"end":714.201,"text":"就算你說的他寫在了就業服務法第60條電付我現在還要追你你有沒有回去還這一筆錢所以我希望今天各部會都很關心各個委員都很關心就業安定基金我希望就業安定基金真的不要再變成小金庫我也期許容部長就業安定基金的錢我們很關注還有所有的私人家庭也請我要再一次跟你轉達"},{"start":715.382,"end":742.955,"text":"他們希望看到你能夠為失能者家庭一起發聲你們在當紅委員的過程當中為外勞的人權我尊重但是他們也擔心一昧的只幫外勞說話沒有去照顧到本勞以及所謂的失能者家庭這個平衡點能不能重新拿捏我並不是只支持外勞移工我是支持勞工"},{"start":743.835,"end":744.396,"text":"最後我還有一個問題想請問你"},{"start":767.896,"end":772.018,"text":"目前勞動部目前對於現在的這個併購的方案目前拿出來的併購的方案我們當然現在還"},{"start":799.073,"end":799.093,"text":"羅廷瑋"}]}},{"id":"157827","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157827","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d96c29f02d40f272e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a1063d997d3b3f5f9fd45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"13:46:19 - 13:56:04","影片長度":"00:09:45","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:46:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:56:04+08:00","duration":585,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.7809687499999995,"end":10.544093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.922843750000002,"end":17.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.90159375,"end":18.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.25159375,"end":24.094718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.68534375,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.22909375,"end":30.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.827843750000003,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.40971875,"end":34.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.181593750000005,"end":39.079718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.55221875,"end":41.813468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.049718750000004,"end":43.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.95659375,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.892843750000004,"end":49.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.976593750000006,"end":53.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.938468750000006,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.773468750000006,"end":55.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.02659375,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.595968750000004,"end":59.312843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.312843750000006,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.88221875000001,"end":64.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.65409375,"end":64.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.37534375,"end":67.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.17659375000001,"end":72.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.55971875,"end":73.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.79159375,"end":75.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.20471875,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.06096875,"end":80.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.24659375,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.94659375,"end":84.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.19096875000001,"end":88.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.91159375000001,"end":90.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.59909375000001,"end":101.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.78471875000001,"end":90.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.11221875000001,"end":101.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.58471875000001,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.90534375,"end":106.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.64721875000001,"end":109.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.70159375,"end":114.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.96659375,"end":121.54784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.91909375,"end":123.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.58534375,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.10409375,"end":126.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.63096875000002,"end":130.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.47034375,"end":133.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.01034375,"end":136.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.11534375000002,"end":138.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.55784375000002,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.50284375,"end":140.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.51534375,"end":142.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.01284375,"end":144.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.88596875000002,"end":145.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.74659375000002,"end":154.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.61534375000002,"end":149.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.04534375,"end":154.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.06596875,"end":154.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.08284375000002,"end":154.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.47096875,"end":157.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.86284375,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.08159375,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":165.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.01346875000002,"end":166.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.43096875,"end":171.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.63284375,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.94909375,"end":177.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.24846875,"end":175.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.97784375,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.99471875,"end":178.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.50096875,"end":182.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.54721875,"end":179.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.55096875,"end":191.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.86596875,"end":193.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.85721875000002,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.56596875000002,"end":196.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.65846875000003,"end":196.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.77659375000002,"end":197.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.31659375,"end":199.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.01659375000003,"end":202.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.68284375000002,"end":203.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.96534375000002,"end":205.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.63159375,"end":207.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.67346875,"end":209.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.70284375,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.44534375,"end":211.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.76596875,"end":211.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.11596875,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.24659375000002,"end":214.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.33909375000002,"end":219.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.01346875000002,"end":223.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.81034375000002,"end":224.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.21096875,"end":226.61159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.21909375,"end":232.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.25284375,"end":228.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.78784375,"end":233.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.80471875,"end":233.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.51346875000002,"end":238.82909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.12846875000002,"end":242.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.63846875000002,"end":250.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.59096875,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.34159375000002,"end":253.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.20221875000001,"end":257.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.41284375000004,"end":258.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.58534375,"end":260.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.58534375,"end":265.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.80409375,"end":264.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.93034375,"end":268.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.33909375,"end":276.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.32534375,"end":281.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.64159375,"end":278.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.67471875,"end":283.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.66596875,"end":287.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.49221875,"end":289.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.43721875,"end":290.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.20909375,"end":293.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.77409375,"end":298.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.08159375,"end":302.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.97534375000004,"end":305.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.18596875000003,"end":304.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.22784375000003,"end":308.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.42159375,"end":321.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.83284375,"end":323.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.15346875,"end":327.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.17034375000003,"end":324.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.68034375,"end":328.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.97534375000004,"end":331.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.86096875000004,"end":334.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.89846875,"end":337.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.50971875000005,"end":338.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.74159375000005,"end":340.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.74971875,"end":342.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.25596875,"end":342.54284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.59346875,"end":342.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.61034375,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.52159375,"end":349.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.29784375,"end":344.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.17096875000004,"end":346.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.16221875,"end":354.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.31346875,"end":353.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.79409375,"end":355.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.68409375000005,"end":357.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.20284375,"end":361.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.88159375000004,"end":364.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.85159375,"end":366.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.97784375000003,"end":368.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.66534375000003,"end":370.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.04909375,"end":373.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.29784375,"end":374.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.67284375,"end":381.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.54096875000005,"end":384.07221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.99221875,"end":383.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.44346875,"end":388.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.33721875000003,"end":390.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.15971875,"end":396.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.93096875000003,"end":402.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.37721875000005,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.76096875,"end":414.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.80159375000005,"end":415.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.81409375000004,"end":416.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.38784375,"end":417.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.73784375,"end":420.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.09596875000005,"end":423.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.60596875000005,"end":425.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.98971875,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.76159375000003,"end":431.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.05221875,"end":431.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.26721875000004,"end":433.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.15721875,"end":434.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.11909375000005,"end":436.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.11034375,"end":437.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.19471875000005,"end":439.65846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.68784375,"end":444.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.11346875000004,"end":446.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.94034375,"end":445.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.20596875,"end":452.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.61846875000003,"end":453.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.74909375000004,"end":459.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.11596875000004,"end":455.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.14096875,"end":458.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.87909375000004,"end":459.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.62159375000005,"end":466.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.63846875,"end":459.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.32096875,"end":469.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.45596875,"end":466.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.76784375000005,"end":476.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.57784375000006,"end":471.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.78346875000005,"end":477.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.45846875,"end":480.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.36096875000004,"end":485.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.38971875000004,"end":486.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.18284375,"end":487.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.44846875,"end":495.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.36721875,"end":496.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.07159375000003,"end":496.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.94909375000003,"end":496.96596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.98284375000003,"end":507.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.61409375000005,"end":509.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.43659375000004,"end":513.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.82409375,"end":514.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.3428437499999,"end":517.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.1440937500001,"end":519.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.47284375,"end":522.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.0209687500001,"end":524.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.5690937500001,"end":526.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.34096875,"end":534.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.05284375,"end":536.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.44909375,"end":539.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.5459687499999,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.6259687500001,"end":544.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.11534375,"end":540.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.0090937500001,"end":552.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.8897187499999,"end":557.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.2390937499999,"end":559.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.0447187500001,"end":563.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.8247187500001,"end":568.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.19159375,"end":569.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.8872187500001,"end":573.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.50721875,"end":570.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.01721875,"end":575.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.0678437500001,"end":574.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.2153437500001,"end":580.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.0422187500001,"end":577.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.1765937499999,"end":582.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.93596875,"end":581.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.9565937500001,"end":585.0365937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":19.634,"end":32.381,"text":"首先請問,霸凌案後現在大概是一個月了,到底我們現在的狀況是怎麼樣?因為我們看到這個一個月當中,很離譜的一件事情,"},{"start":33.442,"end":48.16,"text":"部長你知道嗎在你還沒有擔任部長你是立法委員的時候那一篇所謂的利益良善的那一篇這個目的良善的那一篇你認為適不適當"},{"start":50.981,"end":54.044,"text":"請針對本席的提問,你知道那一份報告在什麼地方可以再看到嗎?對,它公開了,現在還在哪裡?"},{"start":76.275,"end":100.682,"text":"在哪裡的意思是在你勞動部的官網但是他是全文公開的他早就全文公開了在你勞動部的官網仍舊維持目前你們要重新調查但是現在還在你的官網上你只要點了你就可以看到目的良善你這份報告你身為部長你認為這一份是不盡完善的嗎對 是"},{"start":102.102,"end":123.847,"text":"是不禁完善,好,不禁完善,現在還在你的官網上請問,被罵爆了之後呢,請問到底為什麼陳情的管道都失靈了呢?為什麼?因為你在當時擔任這個立法委員的時候,你也曾經有這個語言說,其實這個事情你早知道了"},{"start":124.779,"end":144.974,"text":"不是無姓公務員的事情我說的不是無姓公務員的事情對就是說我說的是謝義榮的不當的管理的傳聞你就已經早有傳聞嗎有有耳聞傳聞你看喔都是外圍知道喔當時的勞動部都不知道是"},{"start":146.555,"end":154.019,"text":"你勇於承認當時的勞動部不知道當時都是外圍知道為什麼這個政府會變成如此應該勞動部是勞工的靠山怎麼會如此怎麼會勞動部的長官變為慣老闆這樣的事件發生了這樣的憾事心很痛啊現在怎麼辦"},{"start":167.506,"end":187.103,"text":"所以我們現在在重新調查我們希望能夠更進一步的把事實還原把事情還原把事實還原然後也比較知道我們過去到底犯了什麼錯在了解犯了什麼錯的狀況下面才能夠提出改善的做法你說的希望知道以往犯了什麼錯因為以往大家針對這個事項都認為勞動部一開始就想要輕輕的放過"},{"start":191.929,"end":211.497,"text":"你會同意輕輕的放過嗎?當然不同意,絕對沒有這件事情。好,所以你重啟調查。那調查的內容,因為上一份是失敗的調查,所以要請教,勞動部到底有沒有持案?有沒有持案?包庇的為師,大致是誰處理?"},{"start":213.351,"end":238.444,"text":"是誰決策都會納入這些的因子會納入在你的調查嗎因為本席在商議院的部長我已經提出但是我看不到所以我希望能夠在你有為的作為以上剛剛本席所說的你會納入在你的調查的因子內嗎請做說明跟楊瓔說明吼現在調查報告的因為每一份報告還是會有它的範疇這個調查報告的範疇基本上我們會針對"},{"start":243.643,"end":244.805,"text":"但是這個就是重要的案子"},{"start":259.642,"end":264.785,"text":"委員我們關於申訴管道過去失靈的部分我們現在正在做檢討本席所提問的這事項你贊不贊成要列入在你的"},{"start":288.507,"end":288.987,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":304.503,"end":321.219,"text":"提起針對你現在是部長要針對立委的提問這些事項本席希望能夠納入在你調查的範疇之內你才能夠真正的水落石出所以你剛剛告訴我你們絕對不會吃案那以往有沒有吃你要去調查"},{"start":323.241,"end":338.798,"text":"所以本席要請教就你看這個事件以往你是幾天前你是立法委員現在是部長你認為何佩珊到底有沒有關關相呼有沒有"},{"start":343.698,"end":367.23,"text":"這位委員我覺得我們從機制我們會比較從機制面來看待這事情你以前是立法委員阿你現在是部長你更有power有權力阿你要查明真相阿到底他有沒有有沒有關關相互如果機制設計的不妥當就容易出問題你現在解讀是他有包庇有關關相互機制設置不妥當可以這麼解讀嗎"},{"start":369.573,"end":383.502,"text":"那個楊瓊瓔你現在是部長喔機制如果設計的不妥當就容易出問題那本席請問機制在你還沒當過部長以前他的目的良善的這樣子機制有沒有出問題這一篇報告這一篇報告裡面的內容我認為是不盡完善的"},{"start":391.226,"end":401.663,"text":"北京完戰就是有問題嘛所以你直接回答就在本期最後一個議題請教你您說的您上任之後您說要實施什麼實施尊嚴"},{"start":403.427,"end":403.647,"text":"入法什麼?"},{"start":432.352,"end":439.504,"text":"你說的是哪一個標的入法哪一個就你剛問我什麼事情你認為這個霸凌事件要不要入法"},{"start":440.714,"end":459.351,"text":"你要讓他有尊嚴啊尊嚴的勞動這是核心價值因為我們現在在法規的修訂上面指安法不足以你自己擔任過立法委員你現在是部長指安法不足以去保護不足以所以在法的立場你會沒有討論的空間因為我們現在正在推動跟規劃防治職場霸凌的法制化"},{"start":466.437,"end":467.659,"text":"請問大概多久時間?因為勞工很希望能夠看到有所作為有所方向"},{"start":486.381,"end":514.407,"text":"因為有一個時間我們在版本我們其實剛才在前面的委員會裡面有講到說我希望能夠在下個會期能夠提出下個會期來提出相關的草案相關的草案就是為陸法好好的去做一個整體性的一個檢討因為我們現在看到比如說五億勞動錢到底要不要放假會不會是國定假日就像立法院一樣我們是廣義的公務人員但是我們的助理是勞工"},{"start":515.407,"end":533.936,"text":"那這個整個社會的氛圍怪怪的在運作上面它沒有效能所以你會不會考慮建議五一勞動節全面放假那個跟委員長這些相關的討論我們當然都會跟其他的權責單位一起來討論我們都願意來討論都願意來討論你的立場"},{"start":537.509,"end":557.034,"text":"你的立場呢是朝方向因為這涉及到這個其他的權責單位所以我們都願意一起來討論當然所以你的立場也就是跟以往你說的要還原7天的國定假日那你目前的立場你現在是部長是不是你的立場還是一樣"},{"start":558.114,"end":585.009,"text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔"}]}},{"id":"157826","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157826","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360ea3bf86f2bdb52d1e45dd5fe0ad21242b44eee46cb88a106f3b915669f50d0dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:40:35 - 13:46:13","影片長度":"00:05:38","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:40:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:46:13+08:00","duration":338,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.10221875,"end":5.127218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.493468750000002,"end":18.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.49221875,"end":27.570968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.02659375,"end":37.611593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.65471875,"end":32.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.540343750000005,"end":34.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.32034375,"end":40.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.10471875,"end":49.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.33971875,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.88721875,"end":56.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.16971875,"end":58.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.95846875,"end":67.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.07096875,"end":93.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.79971875000001,"end":76.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.80534375,"end":103.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.14971875,"end":110.57909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.98409375000001,"end":112.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.00909375,"end":129.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.37971875000001,"end":118.61159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.68159375000002,"end":197.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.50284375,"end":140.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.90659375,"end":149.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.60596875000002,"end":154.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.74909375000001,"end":158.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.09034375000002,"end":160.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.26846875,"end":182.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.43221875,"end":187.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":221.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.90284375000002,"end":199.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.02159375000002,"end":247.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.42909375000002,"end":234.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.93096875,"end":236.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.62221875,"end":240.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.51596875,"end":244.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.02596875,"end":249.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.56159375000001,"end":251.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.99159375000002,"end":274.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.34096875,"end":257.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.62346875000003,"end":261.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.87159375000005,"end":264.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.66471875,"end":265.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.13659375000003,"end":270.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.83659375,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.67159375,"end":279.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.25721875,"end":282.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.68721875,"end":300.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.25659375000004,"end":285.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.54659375,"end":296.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.77721875000003,"end":302.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.17346875000004,"end":303.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.88221875,"end":304.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.48971875,"end":306.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.00409375000004,"end":307.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.91534375000003,"end":316.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.65721875,"end":313.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.53034375000004,"end":315.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.14596875,"end":318.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.99784375,"end":321.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.98909375,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.07346875,"end":322.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.31784375,"end":326.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.64159375,"end":333.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.70034375,"end":334.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.72971875,"end":335.16846875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.063,"end":5.424,"text":"麻煩請那個紅山部長謝謝議員好部長好我相信你看到那個救安基金被這樣濫用你自己可能也覺得非常不適當那中間可能也會有不法的問題剛剛看說您是會有不法會移送檢調對不對就是說如果有具體的不法施政什麼樣叫做不法的具體施政"},{"start":28.086,"end":53.75,"text":"就說如果當然有很明確說是怎麼樣貪瀆的貪瀆的嗎?只涉於貪瀆是不是?就是說具體的不法事證嗎?對這是哪一類的?到目前為止你的瞭解?我們目前瞭解我們其實現在在做一些項目上面檢視是有看到不合宜的地方是有不合宜?我們現在看到會有一些不合宜的地方對那如果許民村他挪用這個錢跑去開演唱會這有是不法還是不合宜?呃"},{"start":57.639,"end":63.642,"text":"這邊會有一些可能是外界觀感問題或不合宜的問題可是是不是不法這件事情其實就像剛剛在講的這場音樂會這場音樂會目前檢調已經在查了"},{"start":68.66,"end":93.039,"text":"部長我這樣問是因為救安基金一開始設立目的應該是保障本國勞工穩定就業但主要的目標是這個當然還有其他目標那有很多弱勢的家庭包括重症患者其實他們去找他們請外籍看護去找這個救援基金他們其實我覺得也是不得已的因為家裡就有人有重症患者他必須要請外籍看護因為請本國的看護的話真的非常的貴"},{"start":93.88,"end":102.666,"text":"那在這種情況之下要他們去繳就業基金結果繳了之後被勞動部這樣濫用我覺得國人通通都不能夠接受啦那所以假設我們現在"},{"start":104.592,"end":127.423,"text":"讓這些所謂的重症患者如果他必須要請外籍看護繳救基金我們讓他們減免部長你支持嗎現在低收跟弱勢的家庭目前就是我知道我是針對比如說重度失能的因為他們其實家裡有重度失能的人其實我覺得也是對家庭來說也是一個很大的負擔"},{"start":128.257,"end":143.406,"text":"但是他們有繳就業基金結果被勞動部的高官拿去開演唱會拿去裝潢豪華辦公室我覺得社會沒辦法接受這樣的一個做法葉元我覺得我們對哪些範疇這個範疇免繳就案訂金哪些範疇比較適合擴大這事情我們可以來討論所以你認為這是可以討論的方向"},{"start":150.731,"end":175.204,"text":"我認為這是可以討論的但是就是說到底範疇要開到多大那目前是弱勢跟中低數目前我知道我們當然討論就是沒有開放的部分嘛因為現在大家外界還發現救安基金是這樣被爛用嘛比如說拿去買咖啡拿去買信封拿去買影印紙拿去清垃圾這些本來勞動部你內部的公務預算就可以編列啊為什麼要用到救援基金呢跟葉元說明齁"},{"start":177.085,"end":197.015,"text":"確實長期以來勞動部部本部的預算真的是偏低那你不能用到救安基金嘛所以很多過去長期以來就是變成是用救安基金在支應很多就不可以嘛你們勞動部如果預算不夠你要去爭取而不是用挪用救安基金這兩回事那其他部會也會覺得他的預算不夠啊他們就沒有這樣的一個基金可以挪用啊"},{"start":197.675,"end":221.027,"text":"因為我們都還會來跟國人再交情沒有部長你第一個齁我覺得不能這樣挪用啦第二個齁現在大家覺得這是一個黑箱啦因為以前大家都不知道一知道就炸鍋了你同不同意把這些細目公開就到底救安基金那麼多錢每一年幾百億到底用在哪些地方這些細目可不可以公開讓國人知道因為我們現在會是在機制面我們會來沒有沒有不是機制面我現在問說可不可以公開"},{"start":222.128,"end":247.583,"text":"可不可以公開因為現在政府要公開透明嘛你竟然被人家質疑這麼誇張你公開一下欸部長其實我對你是很有期許的我覺得你會大刀闊斧做一些不一樣的事情會政治革新你會不願意公開救安基金的細目現在在採購招標的網站上面其實一些資訊沒有那是有標案才有但是如果他是比如說清垃圾這不可能有標案吧補助費也公開了對比如買咖啡豆這不可能有公開吧"},{"start":248.163,"end":273.986,"text":"可不可以公開啦我們想要知道說你這裡還買什麼嘛有沒有買抱枕啊有沒有買一些那個其他的東西啊因為我們會在機制面沒有打關機制面的強化打關機制我們會提出一個強化的方案我問的是有能不能公開就回答我問題就好機制歸機制能不能夠公開因為像你那個咖啡棟你的信封影子這些在標案上是看不到的現在標案上面或補專上面其實都公開了沒有沒有沒有這些東西看不到這些東西看不到"},{"start":274.747,"end":302.307,"text":"你能不能夠把整個公開讓大家看一下嘛對你來說又沒有差又不是你在用你就答應公開讓大家看一下會怎麼樣葉元我沒有我沒有遮掩的意思部長你公開一下現在就算有問題也不會摔到你頭上嘛葉元我沒有要遮掩的意思好那你就公開一下因為大家其實已經有公開的部分我們其實就公開了那是有公開的部分我們現在要知道沒公開的部分嘛沒公開的部分才是大家最想知道有貓膩的嘛可不可以公開嘛就這件事情就好"},{"start":303.168,"end":317.786,"text":"各位我不太懂為什麼不能公開部長我不懂欸該公開的我們都會公開什麼叫該公開該公開不公開也是你在決定啊因為我覺得你想要掩蓋就不公開啊你不想掩蓋就公開啊要有機制面的檢視啦好好好謝謝"},{"start":320.111,"end":334.898,"text":"就不公開嘛齁結論是這個嘛我覺得要我去確定一下就對不是啦因為你這樣子我們真的會懷疑說到底有什麼現在真的勞動部部真的變成抹布的部啦掩蓋的部啦希望你回去想一想明天再公開好不好謝謝"}]}},{"id":"16337","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16337","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea323e8eb5774d58be07d3830e66495180a82e37f9ba35fd77c7a6382d82e2052a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-04","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-04T08:31:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:36:00+08:00","duration":18244,"影片長度":"05:04:04","委員發言時間":"08:31:56 - 13:36:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1846.44284375,"end":1847.3878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1847.7928437500002,"end":1848.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1849.3790937500003,"end":1849.7672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1850.0540937500002,"end":1853.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1853.8172187500002,"end":1857.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":1857.9515937500003,"end":1862.9634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1863.5203437500002,"end":1884.0572187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1884.6140937500002,"end":1886.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.38596875,"end":1889.2715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1889.3222187500003,"end":1892.6634687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1892.6972187500003,"end":1896.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1896.6459687500003,"end":1898.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1898.4515937500003,"end":1902.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1902.6197187500002,"end":1908.8465937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1909.3359687500001,"end":1916.0015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1916.0184687500002,"end":1917.6722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1917.90846875,"end":1926.5653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1926.7340937500003,"end":1931.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1931.8809687500002,"end":1937.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1938.29346875,"end":1939.1878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1939.3059687500001,"end":1941.8709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1941.95534375,"end":1951.2703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1951.3884687500001,"end":1953.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1954.2572187500002,"end":1968.0103437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1968.2803437500002,"end":1970.4234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1970.6934687500002,"end":1974.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1974.9628437500003,"end":1977.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1977.8653437500002,"end":1986.3197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1986.5559687500001,"end":1988.7328437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1989.20534375,"end":1998.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1998.6384687500001,"end":2008.7128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2008.9828437500003,"end":2011.0415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2011.3453437500002,"end":2028.9797187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2029.41846875,"end":2035.0040937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2035.2403437500002,"end":2052.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2052.85784375,"end":2054.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2056.0134687500004,"end":2057.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2057.3465937500005,"end":2061.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2061.6834687500004,"end":2063.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2063.69159375,"end":2071.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2072.3484687500004,"end":2080.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2080.39784375,"end":2087.3503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2087.43471875,"end":2090.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2091.01221875,"end":2094.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2095.16346875,"end":2103.2634687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2103.66846875,"end":2106.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2107.39784375,"end":2108.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2108.29221875,"end":2120.5603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2120.66159375,"end":2139.0215937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2139.57846875,"end":2141.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2141.63721875,"end":2145.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2146.15971875,"end":2155.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2155.91346875,"end":2160.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2160.55409375,"end":2165.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2166.1397187500006,"end":2171.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2171.64096875,"end":2183.7234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2183.99346875,"end":2191.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2192.44784375,"end":2221.1522187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2221.42221875,"end":2224.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2224.54409375,"end":2226.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2226.85596875,"end":2238.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2239.0059687500006,"end":2253.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2254.3115937500006,"end":2267.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2267.7272187500002,"end":2276.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2276.6034687500005,"end":2278.8984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2279.2528437500005,"end":2283.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2283.5390937500006,"end":2296.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2296.4822187500004,"end":2310.4040937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2313.40784375,"end":2317.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2318.50409375,"end":2319.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2319.7022187500006,"end":2320.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2320.9003437500005,"end":2322.7734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2323.11096875,"end":2323.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2324.05596875,"end":2328.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2329.2197187500005,"end":2336.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2336.59409375,"end":2341.7409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2341.9772187500002,"end":2343.6140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2343.81659375,"end":2354.2115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2357.3503437500003,"end":2362.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2362.07534375,"end":2362.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2362.98659375,"end":2367.7790937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2367.7959687500006,"end":2369.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2371.42409375,"end":2372.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2374.15784375,"end":2375.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2377.21221875,"end":2377.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2378.07284375,"end":2379.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2381.24534375,"end":2382.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2383.89471875,"end":2385.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2386.9997187500003,"end":2392.3828437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2394.7790937500004,"end":2399.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2401.68096875,"end":2402.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2403.55409375,"end":2409.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2411.4853437500005,"end":2417.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2420.1590937500005,"end":2426.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2427.55034375,"end":2427.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2429.5078437500006,"end":2434.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":2438.56971875,"end":2442.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2447.7497187500003,"end":2449.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2449.65659375,"end":2451.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2451.6815937500005,"end":2462.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2462.75159375,"end":2478.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2478.36096875,"end":2479.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2480.03159375,"end":2492.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2492.7722187500003,"end":2497.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2497.6659687500005,"end":2500.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2500.3828437500006,"end":2512.7184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2513.00534375,"end":2513.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2513.59596875,"end":2518.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2519.43471875,"end":2523.5690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2523.7040937500005,"end":2524.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2524.58159375,"end":2532.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2532.9178437500004,"end":2534.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2534.9765937500006,"end":2536.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2536.74846875,"end":2537.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2537.6090937500003,"end":2541.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2541.7265937500006,"end":2547.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2548.08846875,"end":2548.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2549.16846875,"end":2549.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2550.2147187500004,"end":2552.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2552.0709687500002,"end":2555.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2555.90159375,"end":2566.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2566.6678437500004,"end":2586.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2587.0865937500002,"end":2598.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2598.4940937500005,"end":2598.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2599.2703437500004,"end":2604.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2605.04159375,"end":2607.7078437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2608.0622187500003,"end":2608.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2609.0240937500002,"end":2610.2897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2610.5934687500003,"end":2611.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2611.70721875,"end":2612.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2613.27659375,"end":2614.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2615.38596875,"end":2617.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2617.4278437500006,"end":2619.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2619.80721875,"end":2621.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2621.8828437500006,"end":2622.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2623.23284375,"end":2632.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2632.69971875,"end":2636.0915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2636.2940937500007,"end":2638.2178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2638.25159375,"end":2639.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2639.85471875,"end":2649.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2649.8278437500003,"end":2653.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2653.4053437500006,"end":2654.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2654.63721875,"end":2658.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2658.83909375,"end":2659.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2660.0878437500005,"end":2660.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2660.66159375,"end":2662.6190937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2663.4628437500005,"end":2664.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2665.11659375,"end":2668.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2668.32284375,"end":2669.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2669.75721875,"end":2670.6853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2671.0059687500006,"end":2671.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2671.7653437500003,"end":2674.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2674.4315937500005,"end":2676.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2676.5240937500002,"end":2684.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2684.9109687500004,"end":2687.0203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2687.18909375,"end":2690.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2690.3278437500003,"end":2692.1503437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2692.30221875,"end":2695.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2695.5759687500004,"end":2699.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2699.96346875,"end":2711.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2711.4890937500004,"end":2719.5047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2719.70721875,"end":2727.6553437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2727.9422187500004,"end":2729.5284687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2729.66346875,"end":2732.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2732.5997187500006,"end":2733.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2733.8484687500004,"end":2735.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2735.38409375,"end":2741.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2741.4928437500002,"end":2744.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2744.8678437500002,"end":2753.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2753.9803437500004,"end":2755.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2756.05596875,"end":2756.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2756.8828437500006,"end":2757.5240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2757.67596875,"end":2762.4347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2763.22784375,"end":2781.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2782.98846875,"end":2784.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2785.04721875,"end":2785.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2786.1778437500006,"end":2788.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2789.5528437500006,"end":2789.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2790.10971875,"end":2791.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2791.6622187500006,"end":2793.3497187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2793.92346875,"end":2805.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2805.5165937500005,"end":2808.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2808.67221875,"end":2809.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2809.58346875,"end":2811.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2813.12721875,"end":2836.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2836.88721875,"end":2837.3259687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2837.84909375,"end":2841.3253437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2841.4772187500002,"end":2843.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2843.56971875,"end":2868.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2869.06784375,"end":2870.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2870.99159375,"end":2875.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2875.3115937500006,"end":2878.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2878.9734687500004,"end":2880.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2880.81284375,"end":2884.5928437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2884.74471875,"end":2887.8834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2888.0690937500003,"end":2890.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2890.95471875,"end":2893.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2893.70534375,"end":2894.9034687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2894.9540937500005,"end":2896.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2897.5359687500004,"end":2900.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2901.11346875,"end":2904.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2904.87659375,"end":2911.3565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2911.4072187500005,"end":2911.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2912.3015937500004,"end":2917.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2917.39784375,"end":2917.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2918.19096875,"end":2924.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2924.9072187500005,"end":2925.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2925.76784375,"end":2927.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2928.0290937500004,"end":2931.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2932.11284375,"end":2935.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2935.77471875,"end":2937.8503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2938.7615937500004,"end":2945.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2945.5790937500005,"end":2955.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2955.9909687500003,"end":2956.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2956.93596875,"end":2960.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2960.61471875,"end":2963.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2964.8672187500006,"end":2966.3690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2966.68971875,"end":2985.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2985.50534375,"end":2986.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2987.19284375,"end":2989.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2989.79159375,"end":3014.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3015.08721875,"end":3015.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3015.9647187500004,"end":3019.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3019.32284375,"end":3022.2422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3027.25409375,"end":3027.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3027.86159375,"end":3029.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3029.5997187500006,"end":3030.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3031.1522187500004,"end":3035.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3035.7253437500003,"end":3036.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3036.61971875,"end":3037.2947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3037.5309687500003,"end":3038.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3038.7628437500007,"end":3051.5372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3051.92534375,"end":3059.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3059.70471875,"end":3060.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3061.00409375,"end":3064.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3064.9190937500007,"end":3066.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3067.0790937500005,"end":3075.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3075.5672187500004,"end":3077.7272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3078.13221875,"end":3085.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3085.42221875,"end":3085.7597187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3086.7722187500003,"end":3089.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3089.5059687500006,"end":3090.4509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3091.39596875,"end":3093.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3093.5222187500003,"end":3095.8340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3096.0028437500005,"end":3097.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3097.48784375,"end":3104.4909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3104.54159375,"end":3111.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3112.18596875,"end":3112.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3113.7215937500005,"end":3118.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3120.6403437500003,"end":3122.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3123.32346875,"end":3126.0740937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3126.3103437500004,"end":3129.2803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3129.4659687500007,"end":3195.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3195.34596875,"end":3202.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3203.14221875,"end":3215.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3215.49471875,"end":3216.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3217.60409375,"end":3222.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3222.9365937500006,"end":3223.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3224.3034687500003,"end":3224.5565937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3225.67034375,"end":3244.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3245.00909375,"end":3246.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3246.7303437500004,"end":3258.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3258.2897187500002,"end":3261.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3261.47909375,"end":3279.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3279.6872187500003,"end":3284.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3285.27284375,"end":3300.8484687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3301.7597187500005,"end":3302.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3302.56971875,"end":3303.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3304.2740937500002,"end":3307.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3307.7840937500005,"end":3313.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3313.79159375,"end":3316.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3316.62659375,"end":3329.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3330.0759687500004,"end":3330.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3330.7340937500003,"end":3332.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3333.50159375,"end":3339.0703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3340.0322187500005,"end":3343.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3344.45346875,"end":3344.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3345.4659687500007,"end":3348.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3348.4697187500005,"end":3358.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3359.21909375,"end":3360.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3361.0753437500007,"end":3394.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3394.58909375,"end":3396.3778437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3397.44096875,"end":3402.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3403.44846875,"end":3427.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3427.5290937500004,"end":3442.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3443.5097187500005,"end":3509.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3509.1365937500004,"end":3511.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3511.5497187500005,"end":3522.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3522.8728437500004,"end":3525.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3525.4209687500006,"end":3534.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3535.02284375,"end":3537.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3538.2965937500003,"end":3538.3640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3541.0809687500005,"end":3545.8903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3554.8678437500002,"end":3568.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3569.5153437500003,"end":3571.5065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3571.5740937500004,"end":3575.5397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3575.75909375,"end":3581.2097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3581.91846875,"end":3582.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3583.04909375,"end":3583.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3583.9772187500002,"end":3590.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3591.1490937500002,"end":3599.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3599.75534375,"end":3605.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3606.20159375,"end":3610.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3610.06596875,"end":3612.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3612.52971875,"end":3612.6309687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":3612.6309687500006,"end":3612.9347187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3612.8672187500006,"end":3617.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3612.9347187500007,"end":3612.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3617.0859687500006,"end":3620.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3620.12346875,"end":3623.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3624.4772187500002,"end":3624.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3624.94971875,"end":3634.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3634.9059687500003,"end":3637.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3637.9772187500002,"end":3638.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3638.33159375,"end":3643.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3643.57971875,"end":3648.4734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3648.74346875,"end":3650.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3651.52784375,"end":3654.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3651.5447187500004,"end":3651.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3651.6122187500005,"end":3653.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3657.0459687500006,"end":3657.6872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3658.39596875,"end":3659.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3660.1172187500006,"end":3661.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3661.1465937500006,"end":3661.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3661.9734687500004,"end":3665.1797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3662.00721875,"end":3662.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3663.1209687500004,"end":3664.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3665.19659375,"end":3665.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3665.7197187500005,"end":3665.8378437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":3665.92221875,"end":3665.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":3665.93909375,"end":3666.0065937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3676.70534375,"end":3710.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3711.07971875,"end":3712.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3712.68284375,"end":3714.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3715.46721875,"end":3718.7072187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3719.01096875,"end":3722.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3723.24659375,"end":3739.3790937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3739.5984687500004,"end":3747.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3747.5128437500007,"end":3750.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3750.66846875,"end":3754.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3754.1953437500006,"end":3756.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3756.6084687500006,"end":3758.2959687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3758.7684687500005,"end":3763.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3763.79721875,"end":3777.6178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3778.4278437500006,"end":3782.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3782.7647187500006,"end":3786.3084687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3786.40971875,"end":3790.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3790.98284375,"end":3795.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3796.1803437500002,"end":3802.5422187500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3802.7784687500007,"end":3803.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3803.40284375,"end":3805.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3805.4615937500002,"end":3817.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3817.3415937500004,"end":3819.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3819.31596875,"end":3821.3240937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3821.5603437500004,"end":3824.4122187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3824.9522187500006,"end":3826.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3826.5215937500006,"end":3828.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3828.5128437500007,"end":3831.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3831.8203437500006,"end":3833.7609687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3833.9972187500007,"end":3835.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3835.4822187500004,"end":3837.7265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3838.0809687500005,"end":3840.5615937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3840.6628437500003,"end":3843.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3843.8859687500008,"end":3845.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3846.0965937500005,"end":3846.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3847.58159375,"end":3848.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3848.8809687500006,"end":3851.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3851.14221875,"end":3853.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3853.6228437500004,"end":3855.5128437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3856.01909375,"end":3857.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3857.6222187500007,"end":3861.0984687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3861.19971875,"end":3864.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3865.1315937500003,"end":3865.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3866.2959687500006,"end":3868.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3868.84409375,"end":3871.3078437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3871.5778437500003,"end":3875.0709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3875.5265937500008,"end":3878.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3879.08721875,"end":3881.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3881.33159375,"end":3886.9678437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3887.4909687500003,"end":3890.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3890.6297187500004,"end":3892.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3892.7390937500004,"end":3893.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3893.73471875,"end":3895.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3895.42221875,"end":3899.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3899.4384687500005,"end":3900.5353437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3900.6872187500003,"end":3901.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3901.6153437500006,"end":3904.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3905.3447187500005,"end":3911.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3911.63909375,"end":3919.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3919.9247187500005,"end":3926.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3926.87721875,"end":3944.8322187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3945.0515937500004,"end":3949.1690937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3949.84409375,"end":3971.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3972.27096875,"end":3980.1347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3980.3203437500006,"end":3985.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3985.9734687500004,"end":3991.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3992.82471875,"end":3993.3815937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3993.97221875,"end":3995.5753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3995.6765937500004,"end":4002.5109687500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4002.57846875,"end":4005.3965937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4005.78471875,"end":4030.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4030.9453437500006,"end":4032.9872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4033.2234687500004,"end":4037.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4037.5097187500005,"end":4040.0578437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4040.2265937500006,"end":4044.3947187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4045.1203437500008,"end":4046.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4046.4365937500006,"end":4047.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4047.5840937500006,"end":4050.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4050.38534375,"end":4052.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4053.3722187500007,"end":4058.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4058.87346875,"end":4059.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4060.7128437500005,"end":4062.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4062.73784375,"end":4065.3703437500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4065.9440937500003,"end":4070.7703437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4070.93909375,"end":4079.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4079.49471875,"end":4083.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4083.6628437500003,"end":4086.1603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4086.6159687500003,"end":4089.7715937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4090.6828437500008,"end":4092.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4092.57284375,"end":4102.107218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4102.27596875,"end":4103.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4103.92971875,"end":4105.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4105.920968750001,"end":4107.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4107.25409375,"end":4109.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4109.59971875,"end":4110.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4111.05096875,"end":4115.202218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4115.53971875,"end":4118.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4118.27346875,"end":4122.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4122.694718750001,"end":4125.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4125.29346875,"end":4139.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4140.02534375,"end":4141.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4141.45971875,"end":4142.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4142.92784375,"end":4144.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4145.45909375,"end":4146.842843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4146.977843750001,"end":4148.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4148.715968750001,"end":4156.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4156.815968749999,"end":4158.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4158.452843749999,"end":4161.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4161.72659375,"end":4164.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4164.983468750001,"end":4193.046593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4193.147843750001,"end":4197.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4197.48471875,"end":4198.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4199.08784375,"end":4202.007218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4202.39534375,"end":4206.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4206.968468749999,"end":4219.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4219.37159375,"end":4227.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4227.842843750001,"end":4233.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4233.884093750001,"end":4239.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4239.53721875,"end":4248.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4248.80159375,"end":4267.7353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4271.515343749999,"end":4273.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4275.43034375,"end":4275.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4276.679093750001,"end":4288.120343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4288.727843750001,"end":4294.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4295.46096875,"end":4300.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4301.147843750001,"end":4310.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4311.407843749999,"end":4320.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4329.599093750001,"end":4333.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4333.682843750001,"end":4335.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4335.5897187499995,"end":4337.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4341.76596875,"end":4348.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4349.03909375,"end":4351.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4351.452218750001,"end":4355.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4357.257218750001,"end":4370.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4368.0740937499995,"end":4369.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4369.87971875,"end":4369.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4371.128468749999,"end":4375.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4376.0897187499995,"end":4420.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4420.92659375,"end":4420.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4420.960343750001,"end":4420.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4420.97721875,"end":4423.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4423.69409375,"end":4427.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4428.11534375,"end":4429.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4429.7353437500005,"end":4431.878468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4432.874093750001,"end":4434.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4434.62909375,"end":4436.704718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4437.53159375,"end":4440.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4440.9403437500005,"end":4445.327843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4445.749718749999,"end":4448.5340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4449.4959687499995,"end":4452.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4449.52971875,"end":4450.019093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4451.706593749999,"end":4461.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4460.903468750001,"end":4462.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":4463.046593749999,"end":4463.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4463.68784375,"end":4463.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4463.73846875,"end":4466.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4466.843468749999,"end":4472.564093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4473.20534375,"end":4475.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4476.411593750001,"end":4478.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4478.97659375,"end":4487.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4488.173468749999,"end":4489.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4490.282843749999,"end":4491.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4491.95346875,"end":4493.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4493.69159375,"end":4496.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4496.67846875,"end":4497.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4498.062218749999,"end":4499.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4499.327843749999,"end":4503.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4504.305968750001,"end":4504.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4504.84596875,"end":4506.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4507.03971875,"end":4512.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4512.8447187500005,"end":4518.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4519.341593749999,"end":4520.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4521.06284375,"end":4522.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4522.69971875,"end":4529.669093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4529.939093749999,"end":4531.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4531.964093750001,"end":4533.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4534.208468750001,"end":4534.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4535.22096875,"end":4539.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4540.23284375,"end":4544.620343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4545.02534375,"end":4546.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4547.13471875,"end":4548.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4549.1259687500005,"end":4549.581593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4549.85159375,"end":4552.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4552.78784375,"end":4554.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4555.36971875,"end":4561.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4561.74846875,"end":4563.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4563.77346875,"end":4566.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4567.13159375,"end":4569.224093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4569.6122187500005,"end":4571.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4571.78909375,"end":4573.763468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4574.3709687499995,"end":4575.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4575.923468749999,"end":4584.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4584.411593750001,"end":4585.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4586.335343750001,"end":4590.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4590.77346875,"end":4595.329718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4595.515343749999,"end":4597.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4597.169093750001,"end":4599.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4600.56096875,"end":4603.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4603.632218750001,"end":4604.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4605.690968749999,"end":4606.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4606.70346875,"end":4607.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4607.02409375,"end":4608.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4609.55534375,"end":4610.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4610.804093750001,"end":4614.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4614.39846875,"end":4616.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4616.92971875,"end":4622.852843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4623.139718750001,"end":4626.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4627.56096875,"end":4629.889718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4630.41284375,"end":4631.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":4631.999093750001,"end":4635.171593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4635.694718750001,"end":4642.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4643.06909375,"end":4645.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4645.98846875,"end":4646.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4646.764718750001,"end":4663.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4663.352843750001,"end":4679.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4679.73846875,"end":4683.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4684.109093749999,"end":4688.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4689.644093749999,"end":4692.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4693.255343750001,"end":4695.077843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4695.90471875,"end":4699.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4698.874718749999,"end":4700.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4700.30909375,"end":4703.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4702.5028437500005,"end":4703.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4703.7684687500005,"end":4707.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4707.85221875,"end":4715.952218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4716.23909375,"end":4722.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4722.0272187499995,"end":4754.106593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4754.62971875,"end":4770.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4770.694718750001,"end":4778.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4778.96346875,"end":4784.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4782.608468750001,"end":4782.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4782.96284375,"end":4783.013468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4784.83596875,"end":4794.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4792.41284375,"end":4792.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4792.42971875,"end":4793.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4794.370343750001,"end":4796.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4796.68221875,"end":4797.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4796.952218750001,"end":4800.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4800.782843749999,"end":4807.077218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4801.84596875,"end":4803.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4803.263468749999,"end":4803.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":4803.972218750001,"end":4804.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4804.022843750001,"end":4804.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4807.61721875,"end":4823.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4810.215968750001,"end":4811.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":4813.962218750001,"end":4814.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4823.479718750001,"end":4829.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4829.68971875,"end":4830.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":4830.34784375,"end":4830.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4830.972218750001,"end":4831.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4839.409718750001,"end":4841.7215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4849.33221875,"end":4852.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":4853.1122187500005,"end":4854.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4859.40659375,"end":4860.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4860.739718750001,"end":4861.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4861.819718750001,"end":4871.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4873.345343749999,"end":4886.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4886.845343749999,"end":4887.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4887.30096875,"end":4889.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4890.456593750001,"end":4893.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4893.983468750001,"end":4899.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4894.253468750001,"end":4894.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4899.53534375,"end":4905.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4900.075343750001,"end":4900.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4904.07471875,"end":4904.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4905.509093750001,"end":4908.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4905.9647187499995,"end":4906.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4909.069718750001,"end":4912.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4912.47846875,"end":4913.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4912.66409375,"end":4913.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":4913.811593750001,"end":4914.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4913.895968750001,"end":4914.132218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4914.7059687500005,"end":4915.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4915.5497187500005,"end":4921.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4921.92846875,"end":4923.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4924.999718749999,"end":4933.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4934.12909375,"end":4935.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4934.60159375,"end":4935.0740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4935.76596875,"end":4936.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4936.542218750001,"end":4938.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4938.550343750001,"end":4939.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4939.073468750001,"end":4939.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4940.4403437500005,"end":4940.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4942.51596875,"end":4948.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4948.675343750001,"end":4952.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4949.95784375,"end":4950.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4953.58596875,"end":4953.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4954.294718749999,"end":4955.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4956.555968750001,"end":4957.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4957.8553437499995,"end":4958.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4959.20534375,"end":4961.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4961.1122187500005,"end":4963.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4963.18784375,"end":4963.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4963.440968750001,"end":4969.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4970.612843750001,"end":4971.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4972.013468749999,"end":4979.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4976.232218749999,"end":4989.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4980.2822187500005,"end":4982.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":4982.6278437500005,"end":4982.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4990.491593750001,"end":4991.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4991.77409375,"end":4997.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4996.718468749999,"end":4998.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":4997.477843750001,"end":5000.751593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":4999.31721875,"end":5009.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5008.59846875,"end":5010.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5010.30284375,"end":5045.6728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5013.4247187500005,"end":5013.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5045.807843750001,"end":5062.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5060.32034375,"end":5064.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5064.94409375,"end":5076.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5067.930968750001,"end":5068.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5077.060343749999,"end":5078.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5077.2459687499995,"end":5077.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5078.86596875,"end":5087.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5079.01784375,"end":5079.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5079.034718750001,"end":5079.557843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5080.78971875,"end":5081.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5081.36346875,"end":5081.380343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5083.13534375,"end":5083.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5084.991593750001,"end":5091.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5091.977843750001,"end":5110.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5095.70721875,"end":5095.960343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5099.26784375,"end":5100.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5100.38159375,"end":5100.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5110.304093750001,"end":5116.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5117.003468750001,"end":5123.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5124.10784375,"end":5127.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5127.61784375,"end":5130.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5130.85784375,"end":5130.874718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5130.874718749999,"end":5130.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5130.8915937500005,"end":5130.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5130.925343750001,"end":5137.540343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5130.94221875,"end":5131.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5133.0009687500005,"end":5133.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5137.69221875,"end":5139.548468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5139.9872187500005,"end":5141.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5141.7928437499995,"end":5142.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5142.99096875,"end":5144.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5143.9697187500005,"end":5144.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5144.526593750001,"end":5149.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5149.28534375,"end":5151.090968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5151.276593750001,"end":5155.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5151.360968749999,"end":5151.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5153.655968749999,"end":5154.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5155.1747187500005,"end":5179.491593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5180.21721875,"end":5186.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5184.35159375,"end":5185.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5186.140343749999,"end":5186.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5186.8153437500005,"end":5200.905968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5198.661593750001,"end":5208.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5202.137843750001,"end":5202.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5207.099093750001,"end":5215.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5215.485968749999,"end":5220.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5220.85221875,"end":5245.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5223.82221875,"end":5224.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5225.25659375,"end":5226.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5232.61409375,"end":5236.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5236.967843750001,"end":5238.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5245.911593750001,"end":5249.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5249.759093750001,"end":5250.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5250.029093749999,"end":5250.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5251.22721875,"end":5253.6572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5253.91034375,"end":5255.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5255.20971875,"end":5260.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5260.6434687500005,"end":5263.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5261.4872187500005,"end":5262.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5263.2928437499995,"end":5263.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5264.811593750001,"end":5266.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5268.49034375,"end":5278.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5278.682843750001,"end":5282.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5280.825968749999,"end":5280.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5283.222218750001,"end":5297.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5296.78971875,"end":5307.0497187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5307.0497187500005,"end":5309.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5309.49659375,"end":5314.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5311.2684687500005,"end":5319.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5314.677218750001,"end":5352.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5320.78596875,"end":5320.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5320.85346875,"end":5322.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5322.96284375,"end":5324.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5352.84846875,"end":5361.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5362.18034375,"end":5365.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5365.50471875,"end":5366.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5366.60159375,"end":5373.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5368.7615937499995,"end":5411.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5378.07659375,"end":5378.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5378.1103437500005,"end":5379.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5379.44346875,"end":5379.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5384.55659375,"end":5385.467843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5388.269093750001,"end":5389.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5389.399718750001,"end":5389.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5389.720343749999,"end":5389.872218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":5393.26409375,"end":5393.2978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5393.2978437500005,"end":5394.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5396.08221875,"end":5396.099093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5396.099093750001,"end":5396.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5396.571593750001,"end":5396.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5401.397843750001,"end":5401.482218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5411.92784375,"end":5418.407843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5412.29909375,"end":5412.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5412.33284375,"end":5412.9403437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5412.9403437500005,"end":5412.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5418.407843749999,"end":5420.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5418.4247187500005,"end":5418.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5419.859093749999,"end":5420.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5421.276593750001,"end":5426.2040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5421.462218750001,"end":5422.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5423.03159375,"end":5423.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5424.3309687500005,"end":5424.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5425.37721875,"end":5433.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5433.325343750001,"end":5435.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5434.23659375,"end":5434.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5435.249093750001,"end":5437.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5436.80159375,"end":5449.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5437.84784375,"end":5437.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5438.48909375,"end":5438.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5438.50596875,"end":5440.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5440.9697187500005,"end":5442.083468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5442.083468750001,"end":5442.134093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":5445.57659375,"end":5445.593468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5445.593468749999,"end":5445.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5448.63096875,"end":5448.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5448.647843750001,"end":5449.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5449.440968750001,"end":5496.640343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5452.93409375,"end":5453.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5454.14909375,"end":5457.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5457.96284375,"end":5460.7303437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5462.11409375,"end":5462.468468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":5462.468468749999,"end":5464.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5496.977843750001,"end":5508.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5508.216593749999,"end":5516.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5508.57096875,"end":5509.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5516.249093750001,"end":5524.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5522.526593750001,"end":5544.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5525.2772187499995,"end":5525.749718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5527.74096875,"end":5527.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5544.177218750001,"end":5544.3290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5544.3290937500005,"end":5569.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5544.63284375,"end":5547.501593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":5555.2978437500005,"end":5556.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5556.968468749999,"end":5557.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5567.58284375,"end":5573.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":5570.97471875,"end":5600.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":5601.0965937500005,"end":5601.130343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":5601.130343750001,"end":5601.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5605.821593750001,"end":5608.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5612.50409375,"end":5615.997218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5616.43596875,"end":5620.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5621.59971875,"end":5622.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5623.00034375,"end":5626.392218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5626.56096875,"end":5632.7372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5633.665343750001,"end":5640.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5640.0272187499995,"end":5647.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5646.57471875,"end":5647.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5647.6884687500005,"end":5647.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5647.958468750001,"end":5648.7684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5649.122843749999,"end":5654.151593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5652.362843750001,"end":5652.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5653.89846875,"end":5688.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5689.065968750001,"end":5689.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5689.94346875,"end":5690.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5691.360968749999,"end":5695.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5695.98471875,"end":5701.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5703.15659375,"end":5722.208468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5711.610968749999,"end":5711.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5722.2928437499995,"end":5723.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5723.45721875,"end":5723.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5723.811593750001,"end":5723.845343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5723.845343749999,"end":5724.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5724.604718750001,"end":5724.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5724.90846875,"end":5731.827218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5731.962218750001,"end":5742.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5742.99846875,"end":5760.970343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5761.341593749999,"end":5761.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5762.050343750001,"end":5766.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5765.88096875,"end":5767.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5767.5009687500005,"end":5767.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5767.56846875,"end":5767.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5767.9228437500005,"end":5767.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5767.97346875,"end":5772.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5771.517218749999,"end":5772.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5772.968468749999,"end":5774.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5773.4072187500005,"end":5775.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5775.128468750001,"end":5776.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5776.7822187500005,"end":5782.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5782.401593750001,"end":5787.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5785.55721875,"end":5810.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5810.987843750001,"end":5812.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5812.725968750001,"end":5834.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5814.042218750001,"end":5814.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5816.16846875,"end":5816.573468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5833.819718750001,"end":5834.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5834.91659375,"end":5834.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5834.96721875,"end":5842.358468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5842.679093750001,"end":5843.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5843.843468749999,"end":5843.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5844.366593750001,"end":5844.653468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5844.653468750001,"end":5844.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5844.90659375,"end":5844.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5844.95721875,"end":5845.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5845.024718750001,"end":5847.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5848.264718750001,"end":5877.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5860.448468750001,"end":5862.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5877.39096875,"end":5878.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5879.2303437499995,"end":5893.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5893.28721875,"end":5893.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5893.97909375,"end":5899.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5897.421593749999,"end":5900.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5901.30284375,"end":5905.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5906.77034375,"end":5913.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5913.655343750001,"end":5944.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":5925.552218750001,"end":5926.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5938.765343749999,"end":5939.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5939.03534375,"end":5940.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5940.09846875,"end":5940.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5940.604718750001,"end":5940.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5940.7059687500005,"end":5940.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5944.80659375,"end":5945.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5944.874093750001,"end":5947.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":5945.937218749999,"end":5946.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5947.79346875,"end":5965.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5965.79909375,"end":5967.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5967.94221875,"end":6009.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6009.80909375,"end":6017.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6016.2215937500005,"end":6021.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6018.0272187499995,"end":6018.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6022.56659375,"end":6023.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6024.91221875,"end":6028.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6028.827218750001,"end":6037.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6033.029093749999,"end":6037.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6037.60221875,"end":6044.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6038.3447187500005,"end":6038.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6039.72846875,"end":6039.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6044.11596875,"end":6049.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6050.342843750001,"end":6063.454718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6063.454718750001,"end":6063.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6064.349093750001,"end":6064.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6064.36596875,"end":6065.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6066.20534375,"end":6067.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6067.18409375,"end":6068.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6069.124718749999,"end":6073.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6073.866593750001,"end":6073.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6073.967843750001,"end":6082.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6080.7684687500005,"end":6080.903468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6080.92034375,"end":6081.932843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6082.0340937500005,"end":6082.067843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6082.067843750001,"end":6082.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6082.2197187500005,"end":6094.859093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6082.23659375,"end":6083.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6084.599093750001,"end":6085.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6094.97721875,"end":6116.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6113.87721875,"end":6115.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6115.952843749999,"end":6128.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6127.208468750001,"end":6140.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6140.235968750001,"end":6141.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6141.974093750001,"end":6148.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6148.23471875,"end":6175.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6175.622843749999,"end":6175.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6175.6903437500005,"end":6175.724093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6175.724093750001,"end":6193.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6175.75784375,"end":6175.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":6193.89846875,"end":6200.665343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6200.665343750001,"end":6214.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":6208.93409375,"end":6209.794718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6214.23284375,"end":6214.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6218.77221875,"end":6221.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6221.03346875,"end":6221.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6221.08409375,"end":6221.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6228.458468750001,"end":6229.8759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6230.196593750001,"end":6231.968468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6234.90471875,"end":6234.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6234.9384687500005,"end":6235.529093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6235.529093749999,"end":6235.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6235.56284375,"end":6235.579718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6235.579718750001,"end":6237.030968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":6237.09846875,"end":6237.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6237.11534375,"end":6237.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6237.4022187499995,"end":6243.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6242.12721875,"end":6242.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6242.17784375,"end":6243.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6243.76409375,"end":6249.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6250.952843749999,"end":6254.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6254.6990937499995,"end":6257.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6257.567843750001,"end":6261.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6261.29721875,"end":6262.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6261.9384687500005,"end":6262.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6263.102843750001,"end":6272.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6266.612843750001,"end":6267.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6267.11909375,"end":6267.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6273.177218750001,"end":6275.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6274.47659375,"end":6274.5272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6275.82659375,"end":6278.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6278.67846875,"end":6279.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6280.0790937500005,"end":6280.720343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6281.41221875,"end":6283.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6283.04909375,"end":6283.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6283.487843750001,"end":6283.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6283.52159375,"end":6283.774718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6283.774718750001,"end":6285.9853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6284.39909375,"end":6287.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6287.9090937500005,"end":6289.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6289.83284375,"end":6293.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6293.984093749999,"end":6296.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6297.07221875,"end":6301.122218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6301.29096875,"end":6303.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6303.29909375,"end":6303.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6303.315968750001,"end":6304.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6304.27784375,"end":6304.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6304.66596875,"end":6306.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6306.842843750001,"end":6316.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6306.91034375,"end":6306.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6316.3603437500005,"end":6318.452843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6318.95909375,"end":6320.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6320.427218750001,"end":6322.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6322.6884687500005,"end":6325.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6325.89471875,"end":6328.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6326.805968750001,"end":6327.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6327.24471875,"end":6327.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6328.577843749999,"end":6328.5947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6328.5947187500005,"end":6328.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6329.151593750001,"end":6330.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6330.501593750001,"end":6332.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6333.5897187499995,"end":6338.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6338.888468749999,"end":6346.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6346.482218749999,"end":6347.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6347.325968749999,"end":6350.515343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6350.92034375,"end":6353.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6353.73846875,"end":6355.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6356.35409375,"end":6359.3915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6359.59409375,"end":6360.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6360.5897187499995,"end":6362.192843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6362.935343749999,"end":6363.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6363.71159375,"end":6364.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6364.50471875,"end":6365.483468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6365.939093750001,"end":6381.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6380.60346875,"end":6385.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6386.17221875,"end":6391.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6391.47096875,"end":6391.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6391.75784375,"end":6397.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6398.27159375,"end":6401.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6401.86596875,"end":6406.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6406.84409375,"end":6409.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6410.74221875,"end":6412.395968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6412.767218750001,"end":6414.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6415.36596875,"end":6422.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6422.82471875,"end":6424.950968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6425.45721875,"end":6426.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6425.845343750001,"end":6425.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6425.895968750001,"end":6426.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6426.43596875,"end":6426.4697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6426.503468750001,"end":6426.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6426.53721875,"end":6426.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6426.975968750001,"end":6426.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6426.99284375,"end":6427.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6427.262843750001,"end":6429.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6429.25409375,"end":6430.907843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6431.903468750001,"end":6432.359093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6432.7303437499995,"end":6433.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6433.540343750001,"end":6445.437218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6445.774718750001,"end":6455.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6448.13721875,"end":6448.440968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6455.86596875,"end":6456.591593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6456.89534375,"end":6458.093468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6458.616593750001,"end":6459.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6459.747218750001,"end":6476.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6476.335343750001,"end":6479.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6479.997218750001,"end":6480.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6481.2459687499995,"end":6484.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6483.38909375,"end":6485.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6485.481593750001,"end":6491.708468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6489.24471875,"end":6489.514718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6489.514718750001,"end":6489.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6492.130343750001,"end":6500.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6500.77034375,"end":6502.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6503.0653437500005,"end":6504.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6504.4490937499995,"end":6506.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6506.389718750001,"end":6508.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6509.02221875,"end":6510.794093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6511.165343750001,"end":6516.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6516.599093750001,"end":6518.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6518.87721875,"end":6520.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6520.42971875,"end":6521.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6522.67409375,"end":6523.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6523.821593750001,"end":6526.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6526.65659375,"end":6528.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6529.170968750001,"end":6535.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6535.65096875,"end":6537.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6537.591593749999,"end":6540.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6541.0340937500005,"end":6541.810343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6542.13096875,"end":6543.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6543.599093750001,"end":6546.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6546.67034375,"end":6548.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6548.762843750001,"end":6551.564093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6552.23909375,"end":6552.930968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6553.13346875,"end":6554.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6554.6522187499995,"end":6560.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6562.583468750001,"end":6563.190968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6563.41034375,"end":6564.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6564.220343750001,"end":6565.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":6565.51971875,"end":6565.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6565.78971875,"end":6565.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":6565.80659375,"end":6565.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6566.059718750001,"end":6569.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6570.042218750001,"end":6573.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6574.075343750001,"end":6584.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6585.4490937499995,"end":6589.026593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6587.288468750001,"end":6587.811593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6589.27971875,"end":6592.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6592.70534375,"end":6594.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6594.3759687500005,"end":6597.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6598.965968750001,"end":6599.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6600.11346875,"end":6601.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6601.51409375,"end":6603.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6603.977843750001,"end":6605.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6605.36159375,"end":6605.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6606.01971875,"end":6607.116593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6607.487843750001,"end":6608.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6608.39909375,"end":6609.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6609.5634687500005,"end":6611.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6611.335343750001,"end":6612.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6612.43221875,"end":6612.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6613.42784375,"end":6613.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6614.187218749999,"end":6615.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6615.8915937500005,"end":6646.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6646.452218750001,"end":6654.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6653.69159375,"end":6658.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6658.3153437500005,"end":6658.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6658.36596875,"end":6658.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6658.669718749999,"end":6658.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6658.821593750001,"end":6663.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6663.19221875,"end":6663.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6663.732218749999,"end":6665.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6665.419718749999,"end":6686.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6673.485968750001,"end":6673.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6673.73909375,"end":6673.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6686.88471875,"end":6686.901593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6686.91846875,"end":6709.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6707.92784375,"end":6709.210343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6709.210343750001,"end":6709.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6709.952843749999,"end":6710.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6710.02034375,"end":6710.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6710.03721875,"end":6711.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6710.897843750001,"end":6710.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6710.91471875,"end":6713.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":6713.7665937500005,"end":6714.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6714.036593750001,"end":6716.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6716.247218750001,"end":6728.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":6719.099093750001,"end":6719.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6726.57471875,"end":6727.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6729.02159375,"end":6729.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6729.07221875,"end":6729.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6729.224093750001,"end":6729.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6729.34221875,"end":6732.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6731.92409375,"end":6735.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6736.075343750001,"end":6737.138468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6736.109093749999,"end":6738.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6737.712218750001,"end":6740.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6740.31096875,"end":6740.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6741.222218750001,"end":6742.538468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6743.1122187500005,"end":6749.052218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6749.153468750001,"end":6749.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6749.2040937500005,"end":6751.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6751.78596875,"end":6752.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6752.0897187499995,"end":6761.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6761.843468749999,"end":6764.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6764.3915937500005,"end":6764.661593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6764.96534375,"end":6767.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6767.091593749999,"end":6770.247218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":6768.52596875,"end":6775.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6770.31471875,"end":6770.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6770.432843750001,"end":6770.854718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6774.600968750001,"end":6775.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":6775.98471875,"end":6776.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6776.91284375,"end":6776.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6781.94159375,"end":6786.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6793.163468750001,"end":6796.251593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":6796.50471875,"end":6800.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6801.80346875,"end":6802.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6802.815968750001,"end":6803.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6803.92971875,"end":6805.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6806.612843750001,"end":6809.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6810.274718750001,"end":6812.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6812.58659375,"end":6817.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6818.25659375,"end":6818.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6819.25221875,"end":6824.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6825.81659375,"end":6830.389718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6831.01409375,"end":6831.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6832.19534375,"end":6833.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6834.25409375,"end":6836.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6836.81909375,"end":6837.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6837.81471875,"end":6841.442843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6842.35409375,"end":6842.843468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6843.653468750001,"end":6845.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6847.062218749999,"end":6849.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6849.62721875,"end":6851.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6852.34409375,"end":6856.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6857.69346875,"end":6861.507218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6861.507218750001,"end":6867.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6868.24034375,"end":6872.054093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6872.054093750001,"end":6876.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6872.77971875,"end":6874.247843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6874.99034375,"end":6875.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6876.374093750001,"end":6880.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6876.47534375,"end":6876.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6876.5428437499995,"end":6877.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6880.28909375,"end":6884.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6885.25034375,"end":6887.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":6887.984093749999,"end":6888.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6888.3553437499995,"end":6890.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6890.515343749999,"end":6891.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6892.37159375,"end":6893.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6893.78909375,"end":6899.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6900.2353437500005,"end":6900.505343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6901.450343750001,"end":6907.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6907.79534375,"end":6919.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6920.31659375,"end":6929.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6926.155343750001,"end":6926.577218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6928.349093750001,"end":6938.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6937.495343750001,"end":6939.419093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6939.419093750001,"end":6950.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6950.72534375,"end":6974.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6975.39659375,"end":6975.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6975.53159375,"end":6975.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6975.5653437500005,"end":6976.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6975.58221875,"end":6978.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6979.17659375,"end":6993.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6993.06471875,"end":6993.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6993.132218750001,"end":6997.587218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6997.97534375,"end":6998.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6998.852843750001,"end":6999.6122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6999.15659375,"end":6999.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6999.6122187500005,"end":7000.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7000.94534375,"end":7003.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7003.965968750001,"end":7010.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7011.28971875,"end":7012.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7013.07846875,"end":7016.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7016.520968750001,"end":7016.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7017.24659375,"end":7072.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7070.385968750001,"end":7072.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7072.765343750001,"end":7083.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7084.206593750001,"end":7086.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7086.40034375,"end":7087.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7087.85159375,"end":7099.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7100.27159375,"end":7102.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7103.25846875,"end":7107.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7107.91596875,"end":7110.092843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7110.497843749999,"end":7113.923468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7114.56471875,"end":7117.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7117.33221875,"end":7119.407843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7119.829718750001,"end":7125.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7125.90471875,"end":7125.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7126.157843750001,"end":7134.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7134.595343750001,"end":7136.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7137.05909375,"end":7137.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7138.122218750001,"end":7140.501593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7140.61971875,"end":7143.4715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7143.62346875,"end":7144.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7145.2772187499995,"end":7147.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7147.60596875,"end":7152.364718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7152.364718750001,"end":7152.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7152.71909375,"end":7152.735968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7152.735968750001,"end":7152.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7152.786593750001,"end":7152.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7152.972218750001,"end":7153.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7153.967843750001,"end":7160.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7160.92034375,"end":7173.880343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7174.13346875,"end":7175.905343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7175.939093750001,"end":7176.310343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7176.20909375,"end":7177.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7177.964093750001,"end":7188.139718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7187.481593750001,"end":7197.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7197.96096875,"end":7198.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7198.04534375,"end":7210.684718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7211.8153437500005,"end":7219.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7219.79721875,"end":7219.814093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7220.64096875,"end":7220.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7220.657843750001,"end":7220.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7220.72534375,"end":7221.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7221.029093749999,"end":7231.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7231.575968749999,"end":7232.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7232.11596875,"end":7232.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7232.335343750001,"end":7232.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7232.807843750001,"end":7235.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7232.841593749999,"end":7233.263468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7235.710343750001,"end":7237.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7237.634093750001,"end":7238.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7238.747843749999,"end":7239.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7240.04721875,"end":7244.670968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7244.991593750001,"end":7248.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":7249.19346875,"end":7249.868468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7249.868468750001,"end":7249.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7250.6278437500005,"end":7251.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7251.70784375,"end":7264.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7264.51596875,"end":7266.827843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7264.83659375,"end":7265.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7269.409718750001,"end":7269.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7269.696593750001,"end":7269.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7269.966593749999,"end":7272.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7273.29096875,"end":7279.3153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7289.8622187500005,"end":7289.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7289.87909375,"end":7292.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7292.86596875,"end":7294.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":7294.435343749999,"end":7295.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7300.93221875,"end":7329.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7330.1259687500005,"end":7344.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7345.19534375,"end":7353.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7353.71721875,"end":7353.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7353.784718750001,"end":7353.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7353.80159375,"end":7384.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7385.83034375,"end":7387.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7388.46284375,"end":7390.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7390.47096875,"end":7401.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7401.929093750001,"end":7406.4853437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7406.73846875,"end":7408.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7408.69596875,"end":7410.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7410.653468750001,"end":7415.7665937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7410.687218750001,"end":7410.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7410.7040937500005,"end":7410.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":7410.737843750001,"end":7411.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7411.024718750001,"end":7415.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7415.02409375,"end":7443.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7415.7665937500005,"end":7416.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7443.62721875,"end":7444.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7444.015343750001,"end":7449.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7449.80346875,"end":7449.8709687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7450.00596875,"end":7470.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7466.661593750001,"end":7470.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7470.99846875,"end":7471.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7471.251593750001,"end":7471.2684687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7471.2684687500005,"end":7471.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7471.28534375,"end":7471.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7471.55534375,"end":7471.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7471.65659375,"end":7471.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7471.79159375,"end":7472.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7472.31471875,"end":7481.0897187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7472.331593750001,"end":7472.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7481.0897187499995,"end":7487.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7486.47284375,"end":7486.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7487.11409375,"end":7487.8397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7487.8397187499995,"end":7487.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7487.940968750001,"end":7487.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7487.97471875,"end":7503.044093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7502.72346875,"end":7514.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7513.97909375,"end":7523.142218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7523.39534375,"end":7527.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7528.03596875,"end":7530.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7528.778468750001,"end":7528.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7530.837218750001,"end":7533.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7533.790343750001,"end":7540.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7541.16471875,"end":7551.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7547.17221875,"end":7547.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7550.800343750001,"end":7551.036593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7551.036593750001,"end":7551.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7551.1884687500005,"end":7551.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7551.28971875,"end":7560.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7561.110968750001,"end":7561.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7561.161593750001,"end":7562.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7562.69721875,"end":7564.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7564.33409375,"end":7579.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7573.682843750001,"end":7573.767218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7573.767218750001,"end":7574.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7574.25659375,"end":7574.290343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7579.589093750001,"end":7581.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7582.8290937500005,"end":7596.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7596.734093750001,"end":7597.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7597.08846875,"end":7607.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7607.97284375,"end":7612.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7612.815968750001,"end":7638.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7638.685343749999,"end":7650.1434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7646.279093749999,"end":7646.5322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7650.16034375,"end":7652.759093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7652.82659375,"end":7655.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7656.269093750001,"end":7670.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7670.325968749999,"end":7689.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7675.169093750001,"end":7675.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7675.18596875,"end":7676.333468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7678.5272187499995,"end":7679.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7688.702843750001,"end":7703.654093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7692.263468749999,"end":7692.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7704.05909375,"end":7706.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7706.97846875,"end":7707.029093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7707.029093749999,"end":7707.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7707.974093750001,"end":7708.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7708.024718750001,"end":7708.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7708.9697187500005,"end":7709.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7709.03721875,"end":7709.762843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7709.762843750001,"end":7709.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7709.8134687500005,"end":7709.897843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7709.897843750001,"end":7710.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7710.032843750001,"end":7710.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7710.977843750001,"end":7711.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7711.028468750001,"end":7723.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7723.9715937500005,"end":7738.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7739.17596875,"end":7758.5653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7757.384093750001,"end":7757.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7757.4178437499995,"end":7757.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7757.45159375,"end":7758.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7758.02534375,"end":7771.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7758.5653437500005,"end":7758.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7772.622218750001,"end":7780.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7778.49471875,"end":7778.5790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7780.78971875,"end":7801.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7788.0965937500005,"end":7788.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7788.11346875,"end":7789.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":7789.109093750001,"end":7789.1259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7801.51221875,"end":7812.042218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7812.092843750001,"end":7819.0115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":7819.0790937500005,"end":7819.450343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7819.5009687500005,"end":7822.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7823.2303437499995,"end":7833.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7833.43971875,"end":7842.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7842.180968750001,"end":7842.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7842.2822187500005,"end":7857.267218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7857.94221875,"end":7858.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7858.583468750001,"end":7874.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7860.794093750001,"end":7860.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7860.81096875,"end":7861.536593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7861.536593750001,"end":7861.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7861.637843750001,"end":7861.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7861.97534375,"end":7862.245343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7874.7665937500005,"end":7881.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7880.1834687499995,"end":7889.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7881.4490937499995,"end":7881.465968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7881.465968750001,"end":7882.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7882.64721875,"end":7882.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7889.97096875,"end":7891.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7890.86534375,"end":7893.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7892.31659375,"end":7894.020968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7895.235968750001,"end":7895.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7895.97846875,"end":7906.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7898.982218749999,"end":7899.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7899.977843750001,"end":7900.028468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7900.028468750001,"end":7900.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7900.872218750001,"end":7901.2772187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7905.44534375,"end":7910.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7909.022843750001,"end":7909.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7911.16596875,"end":7919.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7917.6122187500005,"end":7917.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7917.62909375,"end":7917.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7917.94971875,"end":7917.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7919.7215937500005,"end":7921.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7922.91096875,"end":7923.872843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7924.395968750001,"end":7939.9715937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":7925.44221875,"end":7925.610968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":7925.610968750001,"end":7925.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7925.69534375,"end":7925.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7940.292218750001,"end":7957.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7940.342843750001,"end":7941.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7941.67596875,"end":7943.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7946.384093750001,"end":7947.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7947.58221875,"end":7947.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":7947.919718749999,"end":7948.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7948.307843750001,"end":7948.392218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7958.34846875,"end":7975.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7965.081593750001,"end":7965.7059687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7965.77346875,"end":7968.4228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7971.05534375,"end":7971.173468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7972.388468749999,"end":7975.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":7976.151593750001,"end":7999.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7987.255343750001,"end":7988.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7997.144093750001,"end":8006.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8006.155343750001,"end":8020.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8006.982218749999,"end":8007.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8021.005343750001,"end":8023.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8023.46909375,"end":8025.966593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8026.97909375,"end":8039.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8040.39471875,"end":8042.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8043.077843750001,"end":8044.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8044.5965937500005,"end":8048.342843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8048.342843750001,"end":8053.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8054.940968750001,"end":8059.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8055.21096875,"end":8055.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8055.24471875,"end":8055.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8055.362843750001,"end":8056.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8056.206593750001,"end":8056.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8057.0165937500005,"end":8058.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8059.9697187500005,"end":8067.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8067.3778437500005,"end":8068.964093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8068.964093750001,"end":8069.757218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8069.858468750001,"end":8087.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8075.59596875,"end":8077.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8087.03721875,"end":8091.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8091.94784375,"end":8091.9647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8091.9647187499995,"end":8096.571593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8096.08221875,"end":8096.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8096.571593750001,"end":8097.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8097.972218750001,"end":8107.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8098.46159375,"end":8100.2840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8100.75659375,"end":8102.292218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8104.401593750001,"end":8104.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8108.02971875,"end":8109.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8108.704718750001,"end":8109.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8109.24471875,"end":8109.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8109.6834687499995,"end":8113.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":8111.97846875,"end":8112.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8117.327843750001,"end":8121.327218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8130.76034375,"end":8132.279093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8220.855968750002,"end":8221.024718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8226.441593750002,"end":8227.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":8227.09971875,"end":8227.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8228.41596875,"end":8230.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8230.96409375,"end":8231.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8232.43221875,"end":8233.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8235.33471875,"end":8236.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8236.39784375,"end":8236.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8237.76471875,"end":8238.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8237.96721875,"end":8238.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8238.000968750002,"end":8238.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":8238.27096875,"end":8238.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8238.38909375,"end":8238.625343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":8238.625343750002,"end":8238.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8238.64221875,"end":8238.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":8238.895343750002,"end":8240.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8240.39721875,"end":8240.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8259.246593750002,"end":8259.719093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8266.82346875,"end":8266.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8266.90784375,"end":8267.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8269.894718750002,"end":8271.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8271.51471875,"end":8272.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":8272.544093750003,"end":8272.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8273.489093750002,"end":8273.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8273.691593750002,"end":8274.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8274.29909375,"end":8274.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8274.97409375,"end":8275.024718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8362.926593750002,"end":8365.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8365.12034375,"end":8365.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8365.829093750002,"end":8366.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8442.964718750001,"end":8443.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8446.25534375,"end":8447.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8585.676593750002,"end":8589.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":8590.35096875,"end":8590.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8596.45971875,"end":8598.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":8599.277843750002,"end":8599.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8599.328468750002,"end":8600.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":8604.222218750001,"end":8604.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8605.11659375,"end":8700.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8700.61221875,"end":8746.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8747.74409375,"end":8750.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8750.37659375,"end":8755.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8756.063468750002,"end":8763.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8763.74159375,"end":8787.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8788.429718750001,"end":8797.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8797.187843750002,"end":8883.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8862.22409375,"end":8863.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8863.97909375,"end":8864.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8864.046593750001,"end":8864.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8864.08034375,"end":8864.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8865.362843750001,"end":8865.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8865.683468750001,"end":8865.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8879.504093750002,"end":8881.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8882.22096875,"end":8890.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8883.85784375,"end":8884.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8884.53284375,"end":8887.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8887.65471875,"end":8918.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8906.402843750002,"end":8909.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8909.89596875,"end":8915.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8917.86096875,"end":8935.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8919.312218750001,"end":8919.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8927.715968750003,"end":8927.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":8927.73284375,"end":8927.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8927.800343750001,"end":8927.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8932.980968750002,"end":8937.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8937.60471875,"end":8939.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8938.684718750003,"end":8941.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8940.726593750001,"end":8944.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8942.262218750002,"end":8942.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8944.06784375,"end":8957.297843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8954.51346875,"end":9014.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8963.980343750001,"end":8964.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8964.351593750001,"end":8964.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8970.44346875,"end":8970.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8970.46034375,"end":8971.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":8971.03409375,"end":8971.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8971.40534375,"end":8971.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8971.422218750002,"end":8971.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8971.87784375,"end":8971.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8971.91159375,"end":8971.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":8971.945343750001,"end":8971.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8971.962218750003,"end":8972.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":8994.13596875,"end":8994.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9015.17909375,"end":9021.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9019.90409375,"end":9025.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9022.722218750001,"end":9022.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9022.82346875,"end":9022.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9022.97534375,"end":9022.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9022.992218750001,"end":9023.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9023.02596875,"end":9027.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9026.72159375,"end":9033.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9028.03784375,"end":9028.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9031.109093750001,"end":9041.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9041.43659375,"end":9048.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9047.84909375,"end":9055.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9056.843468750001,"end":9057.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9057.113468750002,"end":9068.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9057.92346875,"end":9058.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9060.50534375,"end":9060.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":9060.79221875,"end":9060.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9065.247218750003,"end":9065.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9068.33534375,"end":9070.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9070.12409375,"end":9071.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9075.54096875,"end":9077.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9087.30284375,"end":9090.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9094.727843750003,"end":9095.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9095.63909375,"end":9107.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9103.70534375,"end":9103.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9107.70471875,"end":9111.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9109.949093750001,"end":9114.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9115.31534375,"end":9122.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9122.63909375,"end":9125.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9122.672843750002,"end":9122.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9125.44034375,"end":9292.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9292.77284375,"end":9306.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9299.961593750002,"end":9300.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9300.737843750001,"end":9300.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9302.324093750001,"end":9303.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9305.85096875,"end":9308.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9308.31471875,"end":9312.094718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9308.51721875,"end":9338.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9323.839718750001,"end":9324.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9338.68971875,"end":9352.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9342.97596875,"end":9345.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9345.96284375,"end":9347.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9353.10096875,"end":9354.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9354.02909375,"end":9354.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9354.214718750001,"end":9358.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9354.332843750002,"end":9354.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9355.075343750003,"end":9355.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9355.09221875,"end":9355.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9355.76721875,"end":9355.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9355.78409375,"end":9356.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9356.543468750002,"end":9364.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9359.294093750003,"end":9359.867843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9362.43284375,"end":9376.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9367.42784375,"end":9367.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9367.44471875,"end":9367.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9367.96784375,"end":9368.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9377.02971875,"end":9382.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9377.839718750001,"end":9378.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9380.60721875,"end":9388.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9388.25159375,"end":9394.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9393.38159375,"end":9405.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9406.071593750003,"end":9414.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9414.171593750001,"end":9418.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9418.96409375,"end":9430.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9426.945968750002,"end":9426.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9429.54471875,"end":9432.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9432.04221875,"end":9439.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9432.24471875,"end":9436.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9439.34909375,"end":9468.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9440.73284375,"end":9441.188468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9468.441593750002,"end":9468.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9468.45846875,"end":9468.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9468.79596875,"end":9468.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9468.964718750001,"end":9469.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9469.234718750002,"end":9470.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9469.25159375,"end":9470.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":9470.129093750002,"end":9470.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9470.601593750001,"end":9472.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9470.820968750002,"end":9471.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9471.63096875,"end":9471.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9472.15409375,"end":9477.992843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9477.13221875,"end":9491.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9478.54971875,"end":9478.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9490.04159375,"end":9495.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9494.294093750003,"end":9512.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9508.620968750001,"end":9509.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9510.91596875,"end":9510.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9510.949718750002,"end":9511.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9511.01721875,"end":9513.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9512.97471875,"end":9515.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9513.51471875,"end":9513.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9514.51034375,"end":9514.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9515.067218750002,"end":9516.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9516.02909375,"end":9520.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9518.796593750001,"end":9519.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9520.905968750001,"end":9522.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9520.922843750002,"end":9520.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9521.445968750002,"end":9524.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9523.386593750001,"end":9538.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9538.574093750001,"end":9538.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9538.77659375,"end":9552.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9542.894093750001,"end":9542.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9542.910968750002,"end":9543.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9543.653468750003,"end":9543.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9552.00659375,"end":9572.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9552.495968750001,"end":9553.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9554.01471875,"end":9554.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9554.655968750001,"end":9554.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9554.706593750001,"end":9555.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9555.617843750002,"end":9555.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9569.08409375,"end":9569.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9569.30346875,"end":9569.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9572.66159375,"end":9599.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9590.160968750002,"end":9590.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9599.88096875,"end":9608.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9600.67409375,"end":9602.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9606.462218750003,"end":9615.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9615.49034375,"end":9621.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9621.17721875,"end":9621.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9622.004093750002,"end":9622.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9622.03784375,"end":9629.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9628.703468750002,"end":9628.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9629.074718750002,"end":9631.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9631.62284375,"end":9639.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9638.42346875,"end":9639.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9639.047843750002,"end":9641.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9639.31784375,"end":9639.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9641.34284375,"end":9655.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9654.285968750002,"end":9654.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9656.125343750002,"end":9667.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9667.769093750001,"end":9668.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9668.42721875,"end":9668.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9668.477843750003,"end":9668.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9668.69721875,"end":9668.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9668.933468750001,"end":9669.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9669.000968750002,"end":9669.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":9669.034718750001,"end":9669.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":9672.66284375,"end":9675.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9684.94784375,"end":9689.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9694.245968750001,"end":9694.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9694.90409375,"end":9719.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9704.539718750002,"end":9704.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9719.81159375,"end":9727.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9727.202843750001,"end":9731.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9732.50159375,"end":9735.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9736.551593750002,"end":9748.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9748.58346875,"end":9755.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9756.109718750002,"end":9757.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9757.544093750003,"end":9764.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9764.867843750002,"end":9774.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9770.149718750003,"end":9770.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9772.07346875,"end":9774.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9774.75659375,"end":9775.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9775.12784375,"end":9775.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9776.42721875,"end":9778.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9779.44784375,"end":9786.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9786.265343750001,"end":9786.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9787.81784375,"end":9789.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9789.066593750002,"end":9789.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9789.45471875,"end":9794.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9794.06159375,"end":9800.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9800.71034375,"end":9800.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9800.91284375,"end":9802.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9801.06471875,"end":9804.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9804.051593750002,"end":9811.577843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9812.219093750002,"end":9814.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9812.28659375,"end":9813.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9814.09221875,"end":9847.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9847.62284375,"end":9847.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9848.027843750002,"end":9857.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9857.59596875,"end":9875.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9874.454093750002,"end":9881.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9879.972218750001,"end":9884.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9882.13221875,"end":9886.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9885.28784375,"end":9900.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9901.403468750003,"end":9915.375968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9912.844718750002,"end":9930.344093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9929.09534375,"end":9932.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9932.234093750001,"end":9937.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9937.617218750001,"end":9942.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9941.12721875,"end":9948.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9942.629093750002,"end":9942.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9945.61596875,"end":9945.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":9948.754718750002,"end":9999.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9953.665343750003,"end":9956.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":9956.247218750003,"end":9957.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9957.968468750001,"end":9959.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9970.962218750003,"end":9971.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9971.97471875,"end":9973.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9976.024718750003,"end":9976.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9976.176593750002,"end":9977.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9977.03721875,"end":9978.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":9978.859718750002,"end":9985.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9989.237843750001,"end":9989.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":9989.254718750002,"end":9989.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":9996.93284375,"end":9998.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9998.02971875,"end":10002.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10002.737843750001,"end":10031.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10003.227218750002,"end":10003.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10031.391593750002,"end":10031.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10032.285968750002,"end":10053.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10032.437843750002,"end":10032.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10053.160343750002,"end":10053.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10053.379718750002,"end":10076.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10076.02596875,"end":10104.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10101.59159375,"end":10112.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10112.47596875,"end":10114.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10114.88909375,"end":10127.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10127.29221875,"end":10137.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10137.13034375,"end":10153.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10137.704093750002,"end":10138.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10151.44034375,"end":10152.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10153.02659375,"end":10153.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10153.043468750002,"end":10153.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10153.58346875,"end":10153.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10153.60034375,"end":10153.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10153.617218750001,"end":10153.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10153.97159375,"end":10154.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10154.12346875,"end":10154.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10154.27534375,"end":10177.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10154.528468750003,"end":10155.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10162.898468750001,"end":10163.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10178.305343750002,"end":10184.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10184.75159375,"end":10209.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10186.28721875,"end":10186.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10186.371593750002,"end":10186.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10210.01346875,"end":10211.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10211.515343750001,"end":10222.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10219.480343750001,"end":10220.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10221.72471875,"end":10255.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10256.149718750003,"end":10256.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10256.183468750001,"end":10256.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10256.301593750002,"end":10257.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10256.31846875,"end":10261.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10260.75659375,"end":10280.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10281.20909375,"end":10298.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10299.265343750001,"end":10317.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10317.28784375,"end":10324.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10324.155968750001,"end":10356.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10355.66159375,"end":10388.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10362.563468750002,"end":10362.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10368.60471875,"end":10368.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10392.75284375,"end":10400.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10399.01346875,"end":10399.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10400.785343750002,"end":10409.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10410.184718750003,"end":10415.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10413.340343750002,"end":10413.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10415.129093750002,"end":10425.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10418.90909375,"end":10419.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10425.59159375,"end":10425.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10425.743468750003,"end":10446.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10425.794093750003,"end":10425.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10447.64721875,"end":10455.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10456.55721875,"end":10462.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10462.952843750001,"end":10464.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10464.690968750001,"end":10466.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10465.19721875,"end":10465.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10466.36159375,"end":10467.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10467.019718750002,"end":10467.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10467.390968750002,"end":10467.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10468.21784375,"end":10470.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10470.242843750002,"end":10472.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10472.36909375,"end":10473.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10473.769718750002,"end":10477.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10477.65096875,"end":10480.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10478.359718750002,"end":10492.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10490.83034375,"end":10498.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10498.559093750002,"end":10501.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10500.33096875,"end":10503.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10502.69346875,"end":10506.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10505.899718750003,"end":10514.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10511.08034375,"end":10511.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10514.489093750002,"end":10523.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10514.590343750002,"end":10514.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10514.691593750002,"end":10515.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10522.015343750001,"end":10525.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10524.563468750002,"end":10532.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10526.47034375,"end":10527.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10531.515968750002,"end":10535.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":10533.895343750002,"end":10538.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10536.07221875,"end":10536.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10536.08909375,"end":10536.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10536.66284375,"end":10536.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10537.641593750002,"end":10538.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10538.215343750002,"end":10538.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10538.50221875,"end":10538.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10538.99159375,"end":10539.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10539.02534375,"end":10539.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10541.60721875,"end":10544.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10554.38159375,"end":10557.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10557.317843750003,"end":10558.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10562.59971875,"end":10562.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10562.97096875,"end":10563.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10564.219718750002,"end":10566.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10566.649718750003,"end":10569.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10570.176593750002,"end":10571.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10572.45471875,"end":10580.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10580.875343750002,"end":10587.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10588.148468750001,"end":10602.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10602.82971875,"end":10611.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10611.97596875,"end":10614.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10615.671593750001,"end":10617.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10617.831593750001,"end":10632.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10632.765968750002,"end":10636.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10636.630343750003,"end":10638.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10638.351593750001,"end":10638.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10638.790343750003,"end":10638.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10638.824093750001,"end":10638.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10638.97596875,"end":10665.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10665.030968750001,"end":10712.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10691.17034375,"end":10692.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10712.972843750002,"end":10713.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10713.090968750003,"end":10713.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10713.69846875,"end":10713.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10713.715343750002,"end":10713.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10713.968468750001,"end":10726.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":10723.367843750002,"end":10723.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10723.40159375,"end":10723.992218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10726.50659375,"end":10726.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10726.911593750003,"end":10727.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10727.333468750003,"end":10735.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10727.434718750003,"end":10728.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10735.973468750002,"end":10737.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10737.070343750001,"end":10737.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10737.77909375,"end":10737.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10737.82971875,"end":10740.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10741.10346875,"end":10747.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10747.02659375,"end":10749.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10749.574718750002,"end":10749.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10750.317218750002,"end":10753.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10753.962218750003,"end":10757.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10758.19784375,"end":10759.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10760.08784375,"end":10771.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10771.86659375,"end":10771.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10771.883468750002,"end":10774.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10774.81971875,"end":10805.734718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10783.08846875,"end":10783.949093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10787.745968750001,"end":10788.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10789.028468750003,"end":10789.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10791.930968750003,"end":10792.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10792.454093750002,"end":10792.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10793.550968750002,"end":10794.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10795.137218750002,"end":10795.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10805.97096875,"end":10816.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10817.14221875,"end":10817.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10817.918468750002,"end":10818.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10818.087218750003,"end":10842.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10842.77534375,"end":10846.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10847.449718750002,"end":10848.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10849.305968750003,"end":10850.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10850.43659375,"end":10850.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10850.79096875,"end":10850.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10850.80784375,"end":10855.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10855.02659375,"end":10859.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10859.97096875,"end":10861.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10861.03409375,"end":10862.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10862.755343750003,"end":10862.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10862.97471875,"end":10863.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10863.02534375,"end":10865.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10865.016593750002,"end":10865.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":10865.65784375,"end":10865.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10865.97846875,"end":10866.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10867.277843750002,"end":10870.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10870.905968750001,"end":10876.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10876.677218750003,"end":10878.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10879.292843750001,"end":10881.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10882.65096875,"end":10891.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10892.387843750003,"end":10894.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10894.446593750003,"end":10902.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10903.356593750003,"end":10905.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10905.972218750001,"end":10915.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10915.87784375,"end":10916.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10917.362843750001,"end":10920.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10920.29909375,"end":10923.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10923.505343750003,"end":10925.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10925.51346875,"end":10925.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10925.73284375,"end":10926.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10926.492218750001,"end":10931.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10931.976593750001,"end":10982.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10982.11221875,"end":10989.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10989.790343750003,"end":10989.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":10989.80721875,"end":10993.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10989.97596875,"end":10996.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10996.30409375,"end":11002.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11002.024718750003,"end":11010.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11011.27221875,"end":11020.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11020.620968750001,"end":11030.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11030.914718750002,"end":11038.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11038.96409375,"end":11041.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11041.664093750001,"end":11048.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11047.637843750003,"end":11052.683468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11052.91971875,"end":11053.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11053.965968750003,"end":11077.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11077.38846875,"end":11089.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11089.977218750002,"end":11092.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11093.149718750003,"end":11103.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11103.03846875,"end":11104.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11105.08034375,"end":11107.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11107.29096875,"end":11108.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11109.07971875,"end":11112.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11112.977843750003,"end":11116.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11117.247218750003,"end":11121.516593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11122.22534375,"end":11125.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11125.22909375,"end":11128.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11128.87409375,"end":11131.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11132.14784375,"end":11144.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11144.027843750002,"end":11154.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11152.617218750001,"end":11153.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11154.051593750002,"end":11154.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11154.13596875,"end":11155.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11158.30409375,"end":11160.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11167.382843750001,"end":11169.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11170.26846875,"end":11171.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11172.22596875,"end":11175.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11175.63471875,"end":11177.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11178.149093750002,"end":11179.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11179.43159375,"end":11181.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11181.895343750002,"end":11183.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11182.300343750001,"end":11183.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":11184.19034375,"end":11186.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11188.25721875,"end":11188.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11190.46784375,"end":11193.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11194.450343750003,"end":11196.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11197.555343750002,"end":11200.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11201.571593750003,"end":11203.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11205.081593750001,"end":11208.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11209.047218750002,"end":11209.890968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11210.70096875,"end":11213.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11213.82284375,"end":11215.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11216.25284375,"end":11218.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11219.93159375,"end":11222.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11223.458468750003,"end":11225.652218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11226.31034375,"end":11227.305968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11227.94721875,"end":11231.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11231.33909375,"end":11232.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11232.891593750002,"end":11234.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11235.08534375,"end":11235.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11236.519718750002,"end":11237.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11238.24096875,"end":11239.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11239.793468750002,"end":11241.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11241.91971875,"end":11243.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11243.269718750002,"end":11244.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11244.88971875,"end":11246.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11247.20159375,"end":11249.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11249.969093750002,"end":11253.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11253.25971875,"end":11253.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11253.664718750002,"end":11255.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11256.145343750002,"end":11257.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11257.27596875,"end":11258.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11258.96346875,"end":11260.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11258.980343750001,"end":11259.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11259.97596875,"end":11261.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11261.781593750002,"end":11262.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11262.18659375,"end":11262.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11262.844718750002,"end":11264.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11264.515343750001,"end":11266.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11266.28721875,"end":11267.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11268.56534375,"end":11269.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11270.640968750002,"end":11272.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11273.10471875,"end":11274.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11274.758468750002,"end":11275.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11276.192843750003,"end":11277.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11277.171593750001,"end":11277.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11277.99846875,"end":11281.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11282.250968750002,"end":11285.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11284.680968750003,"end":11285.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11285.54159375,"end":11286.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11286.081593750001,"end":11290.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11291.144093750001,"end":11296.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11295.54846875,"end":11300.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11301.505343750003,"end":11302.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11303.09159375,"end":11305.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11304.99846875,"end":11306.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11306.753468750001,"end":11307.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11307.32721875,"end":11307.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11308.879718750002,"end":11309.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11310.938468750002,"end":11311.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11315.612843750001,"end":11318.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11319.46034375,"end":11319.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11320.18596875,"end":11323.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11324.050343750001,"end":11326.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11326.66596875,"end":11327.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11327.83034375,"end":11330.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11330.73284375,"end":11332.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11331.509093750003,"end":11331.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11332.62284375,"end":11335.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11335.96409375,"end":11337.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11339.929718750001,"end":11341.245968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11341.634093750003,"end":11342.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11342.258468750002,"end":11350.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11351.55659375,"end":11353.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11352.636593750001,"end":11355.640343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11356.180343750002,"end":11357.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11358.62721875,"end":11359.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11360.129093750002,"end":11365.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11365.680968750003,"end":11366.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11367.13221875,"end":11368.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11368.85346875,"end":11370.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11370.49034375,"end":11371.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11372.22846875,"end":11375.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11375.60346875,"end":11376.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11378.15159375,"end":11384.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11384.614718750003,"end":11389.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11389.609718750002,"end":11390.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11390.89221875,"end":11390.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11391.68534375,"end":11393.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11394.11534375,"end":11399.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11400.49409375,"end":11402.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11403.02534375,"end":11404.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11405.320343750001,"end":11406.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11407.125968750002,"end":11407.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11408.391593750002,"end":11411.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11412.37409375,"end":11416.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11416.54221875,"end":11417.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11416.91346875,"end":11418.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11418.31409375,"end":11419.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11418.33096875,"end":11422.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11422.17846875,"end":11422.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11422.22909375,"end":11424.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11424.422843750002,"end":11424.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11424.50721875,"end":11424.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11424.574718750002,"end":11424.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":11424.70971875,"end":11424.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11424.726593750001,"end":11426.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11426.515343750001,"end":11432.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11432.67471875,"end":11435.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11437.41659375,"end":11439.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11439.492218750001,"end":11440.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11445.43221875,"end":11445.938468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11446.07346875,"end":11449.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":11446.208468750003,"end":11448.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11449.347218750001,"end":11449.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11449.887218750002,"end":11452.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11451.08534375,"end":11451.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11454.39284375,"end":11454.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11455.253468750001,"end":11456.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11457.46409375,"end":11459.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11460.214718750001,"end":11461.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11462.661593750003,"end":11465.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11466.441593750002,"end":11469.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11470.37346875,"end":11470.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11471.875343750002,"end":11473.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11474.035343750002,"end":11474.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11475.317843750003,"end":11477.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11478.102218750002,"end":11479.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11479.85721875,"end":11481.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11482.962218750003,"end":11485.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11485.797218750002,"end":11489.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11489.695343750001,"end":11490.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11491.61909375,"end":11500.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11500.49534375,"end":11516.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11500.984718750002,"end":11502.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11505.08534375,"end":11505.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11514.40034375,"end":11514.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11516.273468750001,"end":11518.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11516.83034375,"end":11521.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11522.43284375,"end":11524.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11524.49159375,"end":11525.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11526.989093750002,"end":11528.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11528.42346875,"end":11532.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11532.372218750003,"end":11532.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11534.24534375,"end":11536.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11537.35034375,"end":11539.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11539.76346875,"end":11545.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11546.88471875,"end":11546.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11546.90159375,"end":11546.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11546.918468750002,"end":11546.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11546.98596875,"end":11547.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11549.348468750002,"end":11550.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11551.710968750001,"end":11552.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11552.74034375,"end":11554.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11555.01846875,"end":11557.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11557.566593750002,"end":11558.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11559.473468750002,"end":11561.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11562.477218750002,"end":11565.531593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11566.544093750003,"end":11567.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11568.062843750002,"end":11570.324093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11570.62784375,"end":11571.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11572.31534375,"end":11574.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11574.99846875,"end":11575.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11576.68596875,"end":11577.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11578.10346875,"end":11578.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11579.11596875,"end":11580.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11580.48284375,"end":11581.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11582.187218750001,"end":11585.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11586.38909375,"end":11587.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11587.958468750003,"end":11588.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11588.66721875,"end":11590.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11591.215343750002,"end":11591.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11592.683468750001,"end":11595.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11596.36221875,"end":11598.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11599.180343750002,"end":11601.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11601.812843750002,"end":11604.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11604.79971875,"end":11605.710968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11606.38596875,"end":11608.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11608.42784375,"end":11609.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11610.43596875,"end":11611.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11612.089718750001,"end":11613.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11613.422843750002,"end":11615.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11615.785343750002,"end":11617.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11618.384093750003,"end":11619.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11620.45971875,"end":11622.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11622.315968750001,"end":11622.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11623.56471875,"end":11624.070968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11624.847218750001,"end":11633.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11634.415343750003,"end":11635.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11636.355968750002,"end":11638.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11639.32596875,"end":11641.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11642.009093750003,"end":11646.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11646.76784375,"end":11648.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11649.24846875,"end":11650.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11651.35784375,"end":11652.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11653.63596875,"end":11656.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11656.67346875,"end":11657.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11657.68596875,"end":11658.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11658.52971875,"end":11659.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11659.829093750002,"end":11661.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11661.719093750002,"end":11663.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11664.081593750001,"end":11664.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11665.296593750001,"end":11665.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11666.950343750003,"end":11668.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11668.739093750002,"end":11669.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11670.08909375,"end":11672.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11672.72159375,"end":11674.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11675.337218750003,"end":11676.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11676.602843750003,"end":11677.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11678.340968750003,"end":11680.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11680.58534375,"end":11687.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11684.247218750003,"end":11684.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11687.622218750003,"end":11702.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11702.97846875,"end":11703.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11703.94034375,"end":11715.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11712.36096875,"end":11713.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11715.617843750002,"end":11716.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11715.972218750001,"end":11744.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11718.790343750003,"end":11719.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":11719.17846875,"end":11719.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11744.879093750002,"end":11745.773468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11745.48659375,"end":11746.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11747.477843750003,"end":11749.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11749.637843750003,"end":11751.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11751.780968750001,"end":11752.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11754.210968750001,"end":11754.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11754.24471875,"end":11763.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11763.492218750001,"end":11763.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11763.509093750003,"end":11763.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11763.52596875,"end":11763.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11763.62721875,"end":11763.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11763.94784375,"end":11766.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11766.512843750003,"end":11768.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11768.85846875,"end":11768.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11768.89221875,"end":11768.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11769.347843750002,"end":11778.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11777.262218750002,"end":11779.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11779.590968750003,"end":11789.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11787.589718750001,"end":11789.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11789.496593750002,"end":11792.078468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11792.21346875,"end":11793.141593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11793.411593750003,"end":11796.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11793.64784375,"end":11794.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11796.43221875,"end":11796.449093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11796.449093750001,"end":11797.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11796.668468750002,"end":11797.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11797.91721875,"end":11799.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11800.80284375,"end":11802.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11803.148468750001,"end":11806.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11807.215343750002,"end":11808.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11808.86909375,"end":11811.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11811.87284375,"end":11813.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11813.864093750002,"end":11817.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11815.754093750002,"end":11820.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11820.968468750001,"end":11822.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11822.672843750002,"end":11826.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11826.840968750003,"end":11830.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11830.65471875,"end":11834.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11834.24909375,"end":11841.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11838.45096875,"end":11858.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11857.114718750003,"end":11857.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11858.02596875,"end":11858.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11858.464718750001,"end":11858.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11858.71784375,"end":11859.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11858.802218750003,"end":11858.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11859.12284375,"end":11859.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11859.224093750003,"end":11859.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11859.527843750002,"end":11867.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11860.118468750003,"end":11861.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11865.92346875,"end":11872.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11868.03284375,"end":11870.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11872.757843750001,"end":11883.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11884.215968750003,"end":11886.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11886.61221875,"end":11888.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11888.839718750001,"end":11889.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11890.375343750002,"end":11892.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11892.67034375,"end":11903.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11898.67784375,"end":11898.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11901.58034375,"end":11903.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11903.993468750003,"end":11912.414093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11908.90409375,"end":11910.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11912.684093750002,"end":11921.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11920.547843750002,"end":11921.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11922.03284375,"end":11928.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11927.88846875,"end":11928.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11928.090968750003,"end":11928.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11928.73221875,"end":11929.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11929.086593750002,"end":11936.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11935.465343750002,"end":11937.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11937.844718750002,"end":11938.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11938.75596875,"end":11940.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11940.578468750002,"end":11943.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11941.65846875,"end":11951.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11944.122218750003,"end":11944.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11951.95221875,"end":11953.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11955.175343750001,"end":11955.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11956.17096875,"end":11957.925968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11958.31409375,"end":11961.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11961.85784375,"end":11961.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11961.90846875,"end":11962.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11962.02659375,"end":11962.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11962.043468750002,"end":11962.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11962.12784375,"end":11978.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11962.212218750003,"end":11962.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11963.106593750003,"end":11964.743468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11971.544093750003,"end":11976.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11977.349093750003,"end":11977.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11978.395343750002,"end":11983.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11979.35721875,"end":11979.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11984.301593750002,"end":11984.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11984.875343750002,"end":11986.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":11987.84534375,"end":12004.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11987.980343750001,"end":11988.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11989.48221875,"end":11989.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11998.18971875,"end":11999.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12000.72096875,"end":12004.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12004.58534375,"end":12004.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12004.602218750002,"end":12004.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12005.20971875,"end":12006.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12005.496593750002,"end":12013.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12014.085968750001,"end":12014.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12015.790343750003,"end":12018.524093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12018.55784375,"end":12022.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12021.54471875,"end":12023.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12023.18159375,"end":12028.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12027.906593750002,"end":12034.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12035.01096875,"end":12035.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12035.027843750002,"end":12035.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12035.04471875,"end":12035.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12035.500343750002,"end":12048.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12036.10784375,"end":12036.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12048.848468750002,"end":12051.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12051.902843750002,"end":12053.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12055.007843750001,"end":12058.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12058.63596875,"end":12069.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12069.43596875,"end":12072.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12072.794093750003,"end":12076.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12077.24909375,"end":12081.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12081.957218750002,"end":12084.488468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12085.09596875,"end":12086.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12087.492218750001,"end":12090.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12090.495968750001,"end":12091.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12092.43659375,"end":12093.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12093.870968750001,"end":12095.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12095.609093750001,"end":12096.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12096.68909375,"end":12097.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12098.410343750002,"end":12099.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12100.739093750002,"end":12101.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12102.51096875,"end":12103.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12103.320968750002,"end":12105.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12105.852218750002,"end":12108.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12107.20221875,"end":12109.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12110.796593750001,"end":12115.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12115.94346875,"end":12115.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12115.977218750002,"end":12116.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12118.06971875,"end":12120.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12120.58409375,"end":12121.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12127.55346875,"end":12131.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12131.114093750002,"end":12132.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12135.99096875,"end":12136.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12136.649093750002,"end":12137.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12137.35784375,"end":12139.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12138.184718750003,"end":12141.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12141.94784375,"end":12146.132843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12146.554718750001,"end":12146.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12147.95534375,"end":12150.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12150.824093750001,"end":12151.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12152.528468750003,"end":12153.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12153.473468750002,"end":12157.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12157.894718750002,"end":12163.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12164.25659375,"end":12166.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12165.42096875,"end":12166.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12166.68659375,"end":12170.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12171.85034375,"end":12174.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12174.347843750002,"end":12187.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12187.61159375,"end":12207.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12207.996593750002,"end":12209.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12209.481593750003,"end":12209.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12209.954093750002,"end":12217.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12218.05409375,"end":12219.690968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12220.349093750003,"end":12224.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12225.090968750003,"end":12229.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12229.59659375,"end":12238.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12229.714718750001,"end":12235.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12235.28346875,"end":12235.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12235.50284375,"end":12235.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12238.86096875,"end":12240.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12240.09284375,"end":12245.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12245.340968750003,"end":12245.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12245.57721875,"end":12251.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12251.31471875,"end":12251.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12251.43284375,"end":12262.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12263.059718750003,"end":12264.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12265.067843750003,"end":12269.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12270.585968750001,"end":12273.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12273.589718750001,"end":12277.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12277.79159375,"end":12294.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12295.628468750001,"end":12296.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12296.219093750002,"end":12297.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12296.97846875,"end":12299.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12299.661593750003,"end":12300.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12300.387218750002,"end":12300.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12301.14659375,"end":12305.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12304.302218750003,"end":12307.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12308.520968750003,"end":12312.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12313.43159375,"end":12320.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12321.582218750002,"end":12330.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12330.42471875,"end":12332.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12331.605968750002,"end":12332.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12332.719718750002,"end":12336.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12333.00659375,"end":12336.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12336.48284375,"end":12343.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12344.07659375,"end":12344.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12344.92034375,"end":12345.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12345.29159375,"end":12346.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12346.742843750002,"end":12349.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12350.337218750003,"end":12351.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12352.446593750003,"end":12353.594093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12354.30284375,"end":12364.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12364.90034375,"end":12388.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12376.30784375,"end":12377.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12377.30346875,"end":12377.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12377.961593750002,"end":12377.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12377.97846875,"end":12378.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12378.062843750002,"end":12378.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12388.96409375,"end":12393.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12394.38096875,"end":12396.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12396.49034375,"end":12397.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12398.07659375,"end":12402.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12402.379718750002,"end":12404.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12405.04596875,"end":12408.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12408.99471875,"end":12414.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12414.563468750002,"end":12416.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12417.077843750001,"end":12425.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12426.257843750001,"end":12435.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12436.51784375,"end":12440.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12441.32721875,"end":12443.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12444.70221875,"end":12447.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12447.402218750001,"end":12448.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12449.039093750001,"end":12453.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12454.33784375,"end":12456.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12457.071593750003,"end":12461.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12457.76346875,"end":12458.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12460.480343750001,"end":12462.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12462.62346875,"end":12466.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12467.145968750003,"end":12467.719718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12468.090968750003,"end":12473.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12472.49534375,"end":12477.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12477.574718750002,"end":12481.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12481.81034375,"end":12482.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12482.77221875,"end":12485.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":12482.789093750001,"end":12483.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12485.792843750001,"end":12490.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12486.72096875,"end":12495.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12494.972843750002,"end":12495.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12495.52971875,"end":12497.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12497.605343750001,"end":12501.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12502.22909375,"end":12505.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12506.160968750002,"end":12512.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12510.008468750002,"end":12515.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12515.290343750003,"end":12524.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12525.33096875,"end":12528.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12528.773468750001,"end":12531.203468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12531.54096875,"end":12532.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12532.97534375,"end":12535.118468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12535.641593750002,"end":12542.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12542.712218750003,"end":12544.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12544.66971875,"end":12553.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12553.343468750001,"end":12553.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12553.630343750003,"end":12554.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12556.465343750002,"end":12560.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12561.08909375,"end":12564.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12565.72971875,"end":12595.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12595.109093750001,"end":12597.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12598.58534375,"end":12600.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12601.555343750002,"end":12603.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12604.407218750002,"end":12605.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12604.440968750001,"end":12605.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12605.36909375,"end":12605.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12605.622218750003,"end":12615.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12615.17346875,"end":12619.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12617.56971875,"end":12625.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12622.868468750003,"end":12635.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12635.64284375,"end":12639.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12640.620968750001,"end":12652.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12653.26034375,"end":12658.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12658.778468750003,"end":12664.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12663.23346875,"end":12666.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12667.48596875,"end":12674.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12667.519718750002,"end":12670.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12670.92846875,"end":12670.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12672.177218750003,"end":12676.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12676.649093750002,"end":12678.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12679.19721875,"end":12693.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12681.390968750002,"end":12681.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12681.441593750002,"end":12681.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":12681.47534375,"end":12681.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":12690.149093750002,"end":12691.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12693.878468750001,"end":12695.633468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12695.987843750001,"end":12698.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12699.14346875,"end":12708.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12708.762218750002,"end":12710.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12710.550968750002,"end":12713.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12713.06534375,"end":12719.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12719.427218750003,"end":12724.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12724.87784375,"end":12733.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12734.05784375,"end":12741.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12741.516593750002,"end":12747.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12748.199093750001,"end":12753.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12753.632843750001,"end":12756.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12753.66659375,"end":12754.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12754.949093750001,"end":12756.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12756.14721875,"end":12757.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":12756.704093750002,"end":12760.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12757.480343750001,"end":12757.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12759.62346875,"end":12763.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":12760.551593750002,"end":12760.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12764.095343750003,"end":12769.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12770.96346875,"end":12780.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12780.56534375,"end":12785.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12782.77596875,"end":12787.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12785.56034375,"end":12790.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":12790.437218750001,"end":12790.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12790.605968750002,"end":12797.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12797.38971875,"end":12798.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12798.469718750002,"end":12799.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12798.58784375,"end":12798.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12798.60471875,"end":12802.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12802.688468750002,"end":12805.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12805.82721875,"end":12813.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12807.76784375,"end":12807.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12807.801593750002,"end":12807.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12807.902843750002,"end":12807.953468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12807.953468750002,"end":12808.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12808.020968750003,"end":12808.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12813.218468750001,"end":12816.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12816.981593750003,"end":12823.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":12819.31034375,"end":12819.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12819.32721875,"end":12819.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12824.558468750001,"end":12826.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12825.85784375,"end":12830.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12828.000968750002,"end":12829.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12829.907843750003,"end":12830.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12831.13971875,"end":12833.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12832.624718750001,"end":12846.546593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12846.85034375,"end":12851.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12851.17034375,"end":12852.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12853.414718750002,"end":12859.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12861.09284375,"end":12862.527218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":12862.949093750001,"end":12864.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12874.52534375,"end":12877.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12877.86659375,"end":12880.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12884.954093750002,"end":12885.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12885.949718750002,"end":12886.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12887.40096875,"end":12940.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12940.82721875,"end":12957.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12957.33096875,"end":12957.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12957.567218750002,"end":12959.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12957.60096875,"end":12957.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12959.49096875,"end":12961.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":12961.313468750002,"end":12979.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12977.46284375,"end":13037.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13034.601593750001,"end":13034.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13038.145343750002,"end":13040.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13040.64284375,"end":13059.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13059.99846875,"end":13069.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13065.989093750002,"end":13066.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13068.90846875,"end":13075.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13070.629718750002,"end":13071.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13075.574093750001,"end":13086.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13078.18971875,"end":13078.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13083.657218750002,"end":13084.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13085.175968750002,"end":13086.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13086.47534375,"end":13088.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13087.31909375,"end":13089.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13089.63096875,"end":13106.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13106.82659375,"end":13127.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13119.128468750001,"end":13119.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13119.145343750002,"end":13119.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13119.364718750003,"end":13119.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13119.80346875,"end":13119.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13119.820343750001,"end":13120.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13120.12409375,"end":13120.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13122.250343750002,"end":13122.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13122.267218750003,"end":13123.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13126.97534375,"end":13134.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13134.974093750003,"end":13135.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13135.26096875,"end":13195.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13141.504718750002,"end":13141.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13141.52159375,"end":13143.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13144.57596875,"end":13145.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13196.43284375,"end":13219.905968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13220.15909375,"end":13220.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13220.95221875,"end":13221.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13221.89721875,"end":13259.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13259.76471875,"end":13265.417843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13265.755343750003,"end":13284.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13273.349093750003,"end":13273.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13273.36596875,"end":13273.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13273.61909375,"end":13273.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13282.59659375,"end":13283.845343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13285.00971875,"end":13316.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13293.059093750002,"end":13293.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":13316.110343750002,"end":13325.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13317.56159375,"end":13317.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13318.472843750002,"end":13319.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13320.278468750003,"end":13320.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13322.82659375,"end":13322.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13322.843468750001,"end":13322.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13322.97846875,"end":13323.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13324.547843750002,"end":13324.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13324.649093750002,"end":13325.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13328.46284375,"end":13330.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13335.22971875,"end":13338.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13338.790343750003,"end":13339.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13343.734718750002,"end":13344.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13344.645968750003,"end":13351.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13352.290343750003,"end":13353.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13352.89784375,"end":13366.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13356.087218750003,"end":13356.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13356.35721875,"end":13356.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13357.42034375,"end":13357.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13367.157218750002,"end":13369.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13369.60409375,"end":13380.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13380.99471875,"end":13382.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13382.969093750002,"end":13383.289718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13383.289718750002,"end":13383.407843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13383.84659375,"end":13383.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13383.863468750002,"end":13384.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13384.504718750002,"end":13396.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13392.351593750001,"end":13392.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13396.01346875,"end":13396.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13396.215968750003,"end":13422.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13422.96284375,"end":13422.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13423.249718750001,"end":13434.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13435.298468750003,"end":13439.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13439.90534375,"end":13440.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13440.614093750002,"end":13441.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13442.11596875,"end":13442.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13442.993468750003,"end":13443.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13443.43221875,"end":13445.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13445.64284375,"end":13455.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13454.738468750002,"end":13454.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13455.81846875,"end":13463.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13463.395343750002,"end":13463.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13463.547218750002,"end":13477.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13477.519718750002,"end":13488.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13483.476593750001,"end":13483.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13483.965968750003,"end":13484.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13484.97846875,"end":13485.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13485.484718750002,"end":13485.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13488.977843750003,"end":13492.859093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13493.449718750002,"end":13494.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13494.293468750002,"end":13494.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13494.816593750002,"end":13495.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13496.06534375,"end":13497.398468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13497.989093750002,"end":13499.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13499.79471875,"end":13506.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13506.899093750002,"end":13508.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13509.210968750001,"end":13511.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13512.09659375,"end":13516.112843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13516.73721875,"end":13529.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13520.73659375,"end":13521.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13522.339718750001,"end":13522.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13528.38096875,"end":13528.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13529.730968750002,"end":13532.954093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13532.363468750002,"end":13533.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13533.03846875,"end":13540.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13533.055343750002,"end":13533.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13533.105968750002,"end":13533.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13535.60346875,"end":13535.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13535.62034375,"end":13536.548468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13540.547843750002,"end":13540.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13540.851593750001,"end":13548.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13549.356593750003,"end":13550.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13550.892218750003,"end":13551.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13551.668468750002,"end":13551.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13551.70221875,"end":13551.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13551.85409375,"end":13551.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13551.972218750001,"end":13593.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13579.630343750003,"end":13580.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":13580.575343750003,"end":13580.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":13581.18284375,"end":13581.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13581.21659375,"end":13581.672218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":13581.672218750002,"end":13581.689093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13583.54534375,"end":13583.612843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13583.680343750002,"end":13583.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13584.321593750003,"end":13585.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13586.009093750003,"end":13587.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13593.231593750003,"end":13595.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13594.969718750002,"end":13596.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13596.606593750003,"end":13618.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13597.68659375,"end":13599.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13618.172843750002,"end":13627.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13627.909718750001,"end":13638.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13638.43971875,"end":13646.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13646.759093750003,"end":13647.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13647.012218750002,"end":13672.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13672.527218750001,"end":13679.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":13680.458468750003,"end":13693.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13687.05659375,"end":13687.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13689.520343750002,"end":13695.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13695.86534375,"end":13695.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13699.61159375,"end":13701.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13701.805343750002,"end":13709.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13716.047843750002,"end":13718.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":13718.86596875,"end":13719.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13723.45596875,"end":13724.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13724.367218750001,"end":13725.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13725.98721875,"end":13728.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13728.974093750003,"end":13737.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13737.833468750003,"end":13739.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13739.79096875,"end":13740.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13741.309718750003,"end":13744.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13744.85346875,"end":13747.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13749.325343750003,"end":13750.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13751.65409375,"end":13752.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13753.122218750003,"end":13755.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13755.83909375,"end":13758.657218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13759.36596875,"end":13761.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13762.47096875,"end":13764.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13764.63096875,"end":13767.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13767.938468750002,"end":13770.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13770.891593750002,"end":13773.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13773.034718750001,"end":13773.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13774.01346875,"end":13774.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13774.03034375,"end":13774.047218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13774.047218750002,"end":13774.064093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13774.064093750003,"end":13777.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13778.19846875,"end":13778.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13778.82284375,"end":13782.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13782.78846875,"end":13783.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13784.08784375,"end":13786.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13787.36159375,"end":13787.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13788.35721875,"end":13790.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13790.922218750002,"end":13792.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13792.64346875,"end":13794.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13794.567218750002,"end":13813.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13813.73721875,"end":13815.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13815.964718750001,"end":13816.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13816.032218750002,"end":13816.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13816.977218750002,"end":13819.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13817.230343750001,"end":13817.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13820.301593750002,"end":13824.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13825.262843750003,"end":13826.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13827.01784375,"end":13836.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13831.742843750002,"end":13831.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13834.29096875,"end":13835.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13835.55659375,"end":13835.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13836.61971875,"end":13837.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13836.87284375,"end":13838.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13838.864093750002,"end":13839.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13840.399718750003,"end":13841.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13841.83409375,"end":13841.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13841.918468750002,"end":13841.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13841.969093750002,"end":13843.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13844.719718750002,"end":13877.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13874.84159375,"end":13876.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13877.49096875,"end":13880.460968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13880.933468750001,"end":13882.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13882.03034375,"end":13882.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13882.97534375,"end":13883.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13883.02596875,"end":13883.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13883.751593750003,"end":13883.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13883.785343750002,"end":13883.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13883.835968750001,"end":13883.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13883.937218750001,"end":13885.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13884.98346875,"end":13886.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13887.07596875,"end":13891.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13891.83471875,"end":13892.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13892.03721875,"end":13892.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13893.167843750001,"end":13897.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13897.808468750001,"end":13909.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13897.825343750003,"end":13898.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13909.97534375,"end":13910.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13910.92034375,"end":13910.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13910.97096875,"end":13914.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13915.51034375,"end":13919.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13919.745968750001,"end":13921.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13921.956593750001,"end":13922.142218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13922.074718750002,"end":13926.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":13923.15471875,"end":13923.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13927.05284375,"end":13928.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13928.234093750001,"end":13928.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13929.094718750002,"end":13953.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13953.242843750002,"end":13957.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13953.344093750002,"end":13953.597218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13954.407218750002,"end":13954.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13958.06909375,"end":13960.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13960.313468750002,"end":13961.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13961.410343750002,"end":13962.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13963.03034375,"end":13968.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13968.548468750003,"end":13971.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13970.809718750003,"end":13971.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13972.56471875,"end":13973.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13973.796593750001,"end":13978.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13974.488468750002,"end":13975.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13978.53846875,"end":13981.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13981.778468750003,"end":13983.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13984.090343750002,"end":13985.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13985.69346875,"end":13987.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13988.005343750003,"end":13992.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13992.257843750001,"end":13998.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13998.957218750002,"end":13998.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13998.974093750003,"end":13999.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13999.007843750001,"end":14002.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":13999.024718750003,"end":13999.868468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":13999.868468750003,"end":13999.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14002.905968750001,"end":14008.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14009.31846875,"end":14011.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14011.731593750003,"end":14021.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14022.177218750003,"end":14030.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14030.699093750001,"end":14039.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14036.80784375,"end":14038.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14039.22096875,"end":14041.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":14040.047843750002,"end":14046.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14041.43159375,"end":14043.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14044.064093750003,"end":14045.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14046.03846875,"end":14051.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14051.03346875,"end":14056.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14056.905968750001,"end":14059.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14059.926593750002,"end":14061.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14061.394718750002,"end":14061.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14062.10346875,"end":14066.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14067.55409375,"end":14068.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14068.38096875,"end":14072.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14071.18221875,"end":14071.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14071.722218750001,"end":14072.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14073.56159375,"end":14085.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14079.906593750002,"end":14082.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14085.610343750002,"end":14085.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14085.644093750001,"end":14094.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14094.18284375,"end":14095.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14096.86596875,"end":14102.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14103.210968750001,"end":14104.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14122.87034375,"end":14124.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14124.60846875,"end":14125.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14124.827843750001,"end":14126.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14125.907843750003,"end":14128.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14129.13096875,"end":14129.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14129.50221875,"end":14130.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14135.03721875,"end":14138.243468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14135.40846875,"end":14136.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14136.167843750001,"end":14136.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14137.956593750001,"end":14138.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14138.243468750003,"end":14138.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14138.41221875,"end":14138.749718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14139.390968750002,"end":14139.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14141.078468750002,"end":14141.095343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14141.095343750003,"end":14154.797843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14154.696593750003,"end":14155.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14154.96659375,"end":14206.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14166.188468750002,"end":14166.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14170.778468750003,"end":14171.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14206.03034375,"end":14207.329718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14207.92034375,"end":14209.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14209.38846875,"end":14222.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14223.040343750003,"end":14226.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14226.95534375,"end":14229.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14229.75659375,"end":14240.792843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14237.97471875,"end":14281.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14242.598468750002,"end":14242.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14242.73346875,"end":14242.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14242.851593750001,"end":14242.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14255.997218750003,"end":14256.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14256.01409375,"end":14258.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14265.329093750002,"end":14265.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14265.531593750002,"end":14266.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14266.03784375,"end":14268.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14268.113468750002,"end":14268.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14269.24409375,"end":14270.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14270.745968750001,"end":14270.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14282.237843750001,"end":14282.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14283.18284375,"end":14294.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14294.370968750001,"end":14301.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14295.14721875,"end":14295.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14301.829718750003,"end":14319.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14317.65846875,"end":14317.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14317.692218750002,"end":14319.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14319.734093750001,"end":14319.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14319.98721875,"end":14320.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14320.03784375,"end":14320.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14320.071593750003,"end":14320.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14320.13909375,"end":14323.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14322.02909375,"end":14322.602843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14323.750343750002,"end":14330.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14330.38221875,"end":14330.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14330.48346875,"end":14330.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14330.78721875,"end":14330.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14330.90534375,"end":14343.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14330.95596875,"end":14331.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14331.090968750003,"end":14331.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14331.58034375,"end":14331.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14331.884093750003,"end":14331.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14331.95159375,"end":14331.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14331.968468750001,"end":14332.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14332.52534375,"end":14332.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14343.66284375,"end":14347.155968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14347.40909375,"end":14359.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14355.930968750003,"end":14364.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14364.503468750001,"end":14365.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14365.212218750003,"end":14365.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14365.465343750002,"end":14365.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14365.515968750002,"end":14365.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14365.532843750003,"end":14365.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14365.60034375,"end":14365.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14365.937843750002,"end":14374.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14375.45534375,"end":14380.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14381.243468750003,"end":14387.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14388.094718750002,"end":14388.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14388.735968750003,"end":14389.579718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14389.86659375,"end":14401.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14402.40471875,"end":14402.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14402.472218750001,"end":14403.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14403.02909375,"end":14404.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14405.492843750002,"end":14405.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14405.93159375,"end":14405.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14405.94846875,"end":14405.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14405.965343750002,"end":14406.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14406.04971875,"end":14411.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14409.99846875,"end":14410.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14410.032218750002,"end":14410.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14411.247218750003,"end":14411.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14411.41596875,"end":14418.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14411.449718750002,"end":14411.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14418.419093750003,"end":14424.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14422.249718750001,"end":14423.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14423.211593750002,"end":14425.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14425.38846875,"end":14426.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14426.02971875,"end":14426.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14426.40096875,"end":14428.392218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14428.392218750003,"end":14428.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14428.442843750003,"end":14429.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14429.286593750003,"end":14429.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14429.421593750001,"end":14429.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14431.328468750002,"end":14431.767218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14432.020343750002,"end":14437.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14437.58909375,"end":14437.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14437.605968750002,"end":14437.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14437.89284375,"end":14440.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14440.69409375,"end":14441.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14441.38596875,"end":14442.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14443.410968750002,"end":14509.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14444.102843750003,"end":14444.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14444.153468750003,"end":14444.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14444.17034375,"end":14445.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14445.97596875,"end":14446.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14449.33409375,"end":14449.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14457.957218750002,"end":14458.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14458.56471875,"end":14459.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14459.03721875,"end":14459.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14459.52659375,"end":14459.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14460.15096875,"end":14461.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14461.028468750003,"end":14461.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14461.500968750002,"end":14461.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14461.63596875,"end":14461.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14468.554718750001,"end":14468.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14468.571593750003,"end":14469.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14469.415343750003,"end":14469.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14470.140968750002,"end":14471.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14473.44846875,"end":14473.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14473.465343750002,"end":14473.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14473.49909375,"end":14475.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14479.30409375,"end":14481.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14482.66221875,"end":14483.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14485.21034375,"end":14487.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14488.56846875,"end":14488.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14488.973468750002,"end":14491.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14491.977218750002,"end":14493.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14493.023468750001,"end":14494.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14494.89659375,"end":14494.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14494.930343750002,"end":14494.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14509.425968750002,"end":14526.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14522.301593750002,"end":14522.672843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14526.891593750002,"end":14528.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14529.304718750001,"end":14551.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14551.52909375,"end":14575.930343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14576.571593750003,"end":14579.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14579.609093750001,"end":14596.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14593.446593750003,"end":14594.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14595.167843750001,"end":14595.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14595.57284375,"end":14599.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14596.298468750003,"end":14596.332218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14599.352843750003,"end":14604.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14599.403468750003,"end":14600.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14601.597218750001,"end":14601.985343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14604.027218750001,"end":14608.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14606.71034375,"end":14608.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14608.70159375,"end":14608.718468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14608.718468750001,"end":14608.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14608.81971875,"end":14611.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14608.97159375,"end":14609.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14609.055968750003,"end":14609.089718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14609.17409375,"end":14610.726593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14613.679718750001,"end":14614.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14614.439093750003,"end":14617.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":14625.863468750002,"end":14625.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14625.880343750003,"end":14631.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14631.735968750003,"end":14632.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":14633.187218750001,"end":14635.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14636.49471875,"end":14637.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14644.814093750003,"end":14644.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14644.83096875,"end":14651.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14651.20971875,"end":14652.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14653.47096875,"end":14659.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14659.782218750002,"end":14660.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14661.33471875,"end":14669.282843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14669.940968750001,"end":14673.687218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14673.687218750001,"end":14673.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14673.704093750002,"end":14673.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14674.277843750002,"end":14674.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14674.29471875,"end":14675.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14676.35346875,"end":14679.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14680.36971875,"end":14681.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14681.500343750002,"end":14682.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14683.42409375,"end":14684.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14685.53346875,"end":14686.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14686.02284375,"end":14686.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14686.343468750001,"end":14686.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14686.394093750001,"end":14687.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14688.149093750002,"end":14689.110968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14689.43159375,"end":14690.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14691.13596875,"end":14694.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14694.730343750001,"end":14698.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14699.52284375,"end":14701.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14702.13846875,"end":14703.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14703.977843750003,"end":14704.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14704.028468750003,"end":14704.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14705.294093750003,"end":14705.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14705.969093750002,"end":14706.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14706.036593750003,"end":14706.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14706.964718750001,"end":14707.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14707.032218750002,"end":14707.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":14708.68596875,"end":14708.702843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14708.702843750001,"end":14712.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14712.550343750001,"end":14716.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14716.87034375,"end":14719.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14719.199093750001,"end":14719.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14722.45596875,"end":14725.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14725.88159375,"end":14736.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14736.445343750001,"end":14748.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14748.308468750001,"end":14751.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14751.953468750002,"end":14761.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14761.454093750002,"end":14765.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14765.90909375,"end":14778.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14778.81846875,"end":14794.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":14781.14721875,"end":14781.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14781.552218750003,"end":14781.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14795.102843750003,"end":14804.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14804.333468750003,"end":14806.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14806.476593750001,"end":14813.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14813.597843750002,"end":14814.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14815.504718750002,"end":14817.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14817.664718750002,"end":14822.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14822.59221875,"end":14827.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14828.02596875,"end":14834.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14835.282218750002,"end":14835.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14836.919093750003,"end":14841.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14843.027843750002,"end":14852.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14852.680343750002,"end":14854.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14855.27909375,"end":14859.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14861.13471875,"end":14864.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14864.847218750001,"end":14866.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14866.349093750003,"end":14866.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14867.142218750003,"end":14872.660343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14873.504093750002,"end":14874.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14875.00596875,"end":14879.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14878.75221875,"end":14883.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14882.27909375,"end":14882.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14883.03846875,"end":14890.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14890.345343750003,"end":14891.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14891.847218750001,"end":14895.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14897.399093750002,"end":14898.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14898.68159375,"end":14901.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14901.80346875,"end":14904.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14904.874718750001,"end":14908.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14909.17784375,"end":14914.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":14914.375343750002,"end":14914.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14914.88159375,"end":14916.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14916.974093750003,"end":14921.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14921.73284375,"end":14925.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14925.968468750001,"end":14927.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14928.43221875,"end":14933.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14934.692843750003,"end":14935.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14935.03034375,"end":14938.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14938.962218750003,"end":14943.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14943.029093750003,"end":14943.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14943.704093750002,"end":14943.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14943.737843750001,"end":14945.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14946.184718750003,"end":14947.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14947.99034375,"end":14950.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14950.31909375,"end":14952.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14951.43284375,"end":14966.586593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14967.126593750003,"end":14980.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14981.470343750003,"end":14983.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14984.32221875,"end":14984.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14985.047843750002,"end":14986.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14986.92096875,"end":14988.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14989.08096875,"end":14990.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14990.937218750001,"end":14992.860968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14993.789093750001,"end":14995.054718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":14995.054718750001,"end":14995.071593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":14995.88159375,"end":14996.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14996.97846875,"end":14998.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":14998.952843750001,"end":14999.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15000.454718750003,"end":15002.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15003.05346875,"end":15003.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15004.454093750002,"end":15005.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15005.63534375,"end":15006.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15007.356593750003,"end":15007.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15007.390343750001,"end":15009.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15010.529093750003,"end":15012.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15013.33034375,"end":15022.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15013.65096875,"end":15013.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15014.69721875,"end":15015.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15016.519718750002,"end":15017.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15017.39721875,"end":15017.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15017.65034375,"end":15017.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15022.67909375,"end":15025.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15025.058468750001,"end":15027.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15028.230968750002,"end":15031.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15031.36971875,"end":15031.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15032.06159375,"end":15034.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15034.035968750002,"end":15034.204718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15034.89659375,"end":15034.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15034.91346875,"end":15037.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15038.06909375,"end":15039.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15039.992843750002,"end":15041.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15041.849093750003,"end":15043.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15044.279093750003,"end":15045.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15045.730343750001,"end":15047.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15047.35034375,"end":15047.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15049.122218750003,"end":15049.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15049.13909375,"end":15052.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15053.492843750002,"end":15057.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15058.352843750003,"end":15058.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15058.977218750002,"end":15059.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15059.11221875,"end":15059.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15059.399093750002,"end":15061.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15061.035968750002,"end":15064.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15064.64721875,"end":15067.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15067.667843750001,"end":15067.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15067.887218750002,"end":15068.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15068.96721875,"end":15069.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15069.034718750001,"end":15069.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15069.996593750002,"end":15070.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15070.03034375,"end":15077.320343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15077.320343750001,"end":15077.337218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15077.337218750003,"end":15077.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15077.894093750001,"end":15077.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15077.97846875,"end":15078.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15078.029093750003,"end":15078.636593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15079.007843750001,"end":15079.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15079.04159375,"end":15080.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15080.03721875,"end":15081.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15081.032843750003,"end":15081.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15081.977843750003,"end":15085.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15085.032218750002,"end":15086.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15087.05721875,"end":15087.074093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":15087.074093750001,"end":15095.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15095.258468750002,"end":15098.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15098.903468750003,"end":15101.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15101.72159375,"end":15104.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15104.72534375,"end":15106.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15106.46346875,"end":15106.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15106.767218750003,"end":15106.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15106.851593750001,"end":15106.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15106.969718750002,"end":15108.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15109.41659375,"end":15115.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15115.035968750002,"end":15115.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15115.727843750003,"end":15115.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15115.96409375,"end":15122.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15123.55784375,"end":15123.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15123.574718750002,"end":15126.477218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15128.19846875,"end":15134.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15134.93159375,"end":15144.314093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15143.723468750002,"end":15146.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15146.575343750003,"end":15150.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15150.895343750002,"end":15155.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15156.548468750003,"end":15159.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15160.125968750002,"end":15161.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15161.40846875,"end":15163.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15164.20971875,"end":15165.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15165.52596875,"end":15165.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15165.79596875,"end":15166.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15166.032218750002,"end":15166.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15166.487843750001,"end":15166.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15166.69034375,"end":15166.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15166.74096875,"end":15167.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15167.85471875,"end":15169.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15170.53784375,"end":15171.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15172.613468750002,"end":15174.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15175.364093750002,"end":15176.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15176.81534375,"end":15181.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15181.40534375,"end":15181.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15182.367218750001,"end":15183.970343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15183.970343750003,"end":15187.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15187.78409375,"end":15190.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15191.05784375,"end":15191.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15191.969093750002,"end":15193.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15193.84221875,"end":15195.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15196.407218750002,"end":15197.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15198.33096875,"end":15199.529093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15199.950968750003,"end":15209.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15209.97471875,"end":15210.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15210.02534375,"end":15211.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15211.847843750002,"end":15212.219093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15212.219093750002,"end":15213.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15213.029093750003,"end":15213.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15213.974093750003,"end":15214.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15214.024718750003,"end":15214.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15214.969718750002,"end":15215.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15215.03721875,"end":15215.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15215.847218750001,"end":15216.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15216.134093750003,"end":15218.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15218.58096875,"end":15221.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15221.719718750002,"end":15229.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15230.27534375,"end":15232.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15232.165343750003,"end":15232.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15232.570343750001,"end":15232.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15232.97534375,"end":15233.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15234.122843750003,"end":15234.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15234.13971875,"end":15235.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15236.164718750002,"end":15236.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15238.949093750001,"end":15239.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15239.843468750001,"end":15255.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15255.469718750002,"end":15263.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15264.19409375,"end":15267.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15267.383468750002,"end":15269.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15269.965343750002,"end":15272.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15272.496593750002,"end":15274.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15274.04909375,"end":15274.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15275.26409375,"end":15275.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15275.280968750001,"end":15276.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15276.765968750002,"end":15276.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15276.79971875,"end":15276.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15276.816593750002,"end":15278.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15276.934718750003,"end":15281.423468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15281.609093750001,"end":15282.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15282.97596875,"end":15283.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15283.02659375,"end":15283.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15283.617218750001,"end":15283.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15283.97159375,"end":15284.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15284.039093750001,"end":15284.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15284.96721875,"end":15287.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15287.97096875,"end":15297.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15297.977843750003,"end":15303.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15304.27221875,"end":15308.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15308.44034375,"end":15308.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15308.507843750001,"end":15308.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15309.01409375,"end":15321.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15322.328468750002,"end":15323.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15324.25221875,"end":15325.382843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15326.513468750003,"end":15327.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15329.027843750002,"end":15330.765968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15331.17096875,"end":15337.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15336.773468750001,"end":15337.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15337.02659375,"end":15337.212218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15337.212218750003,"end":15339.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15339.675968750002,"end":15341.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15341.61659375,"end":15343.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15343.624718750001,"end":15344.704718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15345.261593750001,"end":15347.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15348.113468750002,"end":15349.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15349.868468750003,"end":15351.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15352.36596875,"end":15354.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15354.407843750003,"end":15355.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15355.69034375,"end":15356.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15357.664718750002,"end":15358.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15358.96409375,"end":15366.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15367.08096875,"end":15368.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15368.02596875,"end":15370.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15370.793468750002,"end":15371.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15372.362843750001,"end":15372.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15372.379718750002,"end":15374.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15375.36659375,"end":15377.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15377.99909375,"end":15379.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15379.36596875,"end":15379.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15379.41659375,"end":15380.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15380.378468750001,"end":15380.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15380.63159375,"end":15380.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15380.78346875,"end":15383.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15383.972843750002,"end":15384.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15384.023468750001,"end":15385.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15385.96409375,"end":15388.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15388.934093750002,"end":15390.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15390.098468750002,"end":15390.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15390.773468750001,"end":15391.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15391.81971875,"end":15391.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15392.309093750002,"end":15392.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15393.574718750002,"end":15402.214718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15402.46784375,"end":15405.218468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15405.640343750001,"end":15407.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15407.867843750002,"end":15413.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15414.314093750003,"end":15415.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15417.199718750002,"end":15418.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15420.13596875,"end":15422.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15423.173468750003,"end":15424.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15424.08471875,"end":15424.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15424.75971875,"end":15425.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15425.02971875,"end":15428.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15429.113468750002,"end":15433.922843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15434.125343750002,"end":15439.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15434.800343750001,"end":15434.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15434.817218750002,"end":15435.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15435.05346875,"end":15435.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15435.070343750001,"end":15439.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15439.49159375,"end":15440.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15442.343468750001,"end":15443.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15444.030968750001,"end":15446.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15446.59596875,"end":15453.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15454.13909375,"end":15455.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15456.602843750003,"end":15457.024718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15457.024718750003,"end":15457.649093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15457.649093750002,"end":15457.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15457.66596875,"end":15458.610968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15458.83034375,"end":15461.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15462.72846875,"end":15463.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15469.12409375,"end":15470.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15470.86221875,"end":15471.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15472.144718750002,"end":15473.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15473.34284375,"end":15474.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15475.82346875,"end":15477.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15478.65846875,"end":15480.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15480.02534375,"end":15483.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15483.484718750002,"end":15488.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15488.175968750002,"end":15489.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15490.15034375,"end":15492.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15493.407218750002,"end":15495.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15496.05659375,"end":15499.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15497.28846875,"end":15497.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15497.32221875,"end":15499.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15500.76471875,"end":15500.798468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15500.798468750003,"end":15501.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15502.55346875,"end":15505.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15505.945343750001,"end":15506.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15507.329093750002,"end":15508.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15508.645343750002,"end":15510.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15510.56909375,"end":15513.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15514.011593750001,"end":15515.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15516.458468750003,"end":15517.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15517.032218750002,"end":15518.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15518.48346875,"end":15519.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15520.289093750001,"end":15521.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15522.077843750001,"end":15523.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15523.86659375,"end":15525.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15526.195343750001,"end":15527.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15527.96721875,"end":15528.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15529.55346875,"end":15530.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15533.384093750003,"end":15539.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15538.716593750003,"end":15540.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15539.340968750003,"end":15539.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15540.35346875,"end":15544.234718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15541.872218750003,"end":15544.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15544.234718750002,"end":15544.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15547.89659375,"end":15550.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15554.359718750002,"end":15555.777218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15556.215968750003,"end":15557.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15562.004093750002,"end":15562.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15562.020968750003,"end":15562.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15562.88159375,"end":15572.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15573.546593750001,"end":15574.154093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15575.605343750001,"end":15583.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15582.051593750002,"end":15592.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15590.97846875,"end":15599.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15597.10409375,"end":15597.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15599.972843750002,"end":15604.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15605.355968750002,"end":15605.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15606.840968750003,"end":15610.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15609.08534375,"end":15612.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15612.03846875,"end":15615.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15615.379718750002,"end":15625.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15626.348468750002,"end":15630.735968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15631.731593750003,"end":15633.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15634.515968750002,"end":15638.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15638.565968750001,"end":15640.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15640.371593750002,"end":15644.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15644.15159375,"end":15651.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15650.142218750003,"end":15651.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15652.15034375,"end":15652.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15652.21784375,"end":15652.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15652.504718750002,"end":15652.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15652.555343750002,"end":15653.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15653.972843750002,"end":15673.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":15673.21034375,"end":15673.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15673.41284375,"end":15673.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15673.83471875,"end":15676.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15677.68221875,"end":15679.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15679.825343750003,"end":15692.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15688.262843750003,"end":15690.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15691.097843750002,"end":15691.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15691.35096875,"end":15691.367843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15691.38471875,"end":15691.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15691.469093750002,"end":15691.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15692.02596875,"end":15701.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15692.12721875,"end":15694.000343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15695.40096875,"end":15695.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15695.97471875,"end":15696.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15696.76784375,"end":15697.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15697.004093750002,"end":15697.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15697.763468750003,"end":15697.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15697.797218750002,"end":15698.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15701.560343750003,"end":15702.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15703.51784375,"end":15709.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15710.284718750001,"end":15710.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15710.942843750003,"end":15712.883468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15713.38971875,"end":15716.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15717.102218750002,"end":15720.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15720.966593750003,"end":15726.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15726.67034375,"end":15730.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15730.46721875,"end":15730.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15730.58534375,"end":15731.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15731.024093750002,"end":15731.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15731.20971875,"end":15736.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15731.294093750003,"end":15733.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15736.96409375,"end":15745.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15737.672843750002,"end":15738.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15745.92471875,"end":15753.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15754.497218750003,"end":15757.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15757.99034375,"end":15762.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15763.94721875,"end":15765.499718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15765.499718750001,"end":15775.017218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15765.516593750002,"end":15766.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15776.012843750003,"end":15781.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15782.08784375,"end":15783.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15784.58534375,"end":15787.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15788.331593750001,"end":15791.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15792.75284375,"end":15796.667843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15797.12346875,"end":15803.232218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15803.839718750001,"end":15812.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15810.37034375,"end":15810.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15810.977843750003,"end":15811.956593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15812.648468750001,"end":15823.954718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15823.954718750003,"end":15824.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15824.157218750002,"end":15824.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15824.96721875,"end":15825.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15825.895343750002,"end":15827.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15828.08909375,"end":15835.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15835.125968750002,"end":15835.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15835.63221875,"end":15835.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15835.969718750002,"end":15836.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15836.070968750002,"end":15836.189093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15836.189093750003,"end":15836.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15836.20596875,"end":15842.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15843.15846875,"end":15844.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15843.64784375,"end":15844.238468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15844.238468750002,"end":15844.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15844.32284375,"end":15862.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15844.96409375,"end":15845.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15845.48721875,"end":15845.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15845.723468750002,"end":15845.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15845.774093750002,"end":15845.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":15845.79096875,"end":15846.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15862.969718750002,"end":15863.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15863.03721875,"end":15863.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15864.235343750002,"end":15864.269093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15864.269093750001,"end":15865.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15866.614718750003,"end":15868.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15869.16284375,"end":15870.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15871.27221875,"end":15872.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15872.031593750002,"end":15872.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15872.976593750001,"end":15873.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15873.027218750001,"end":15878.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15879.000968750002,"end":15885.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15885.683468750001,"end":15889.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15889.294718750003,"end":15894.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15895.335968750001,"end":15903.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":15898.52534375,"end":15898.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15898.54221875,"end":15899.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15899.031593750002,"end":15900.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15900.128468750001,"end":15901.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15901.309718750003,"end":15901.394093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15902.153468750003,"end":15906.642218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":15903.97596875,"end":15905.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15905.039093750001,"end":15905.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15906.675968750002,"end":15908.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15909.747218750003,"end":15911.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15909.797843750002,"end":15913.493468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15912.582218750002,"end":15913.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15913.83096875,"end":15916.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15914.50596875,"end":15914.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":15914.657843750003,"end":15914.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15916.429718750001,"end":15922.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15919.16346875,"end":15924.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15924.79971875,"end":15927.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15928.765343750001,"end":15932.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15933.152843750002,"end":15941.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15941.809718750003,"end":15953.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15953.453468750002,"end":15954.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15955.883468750002,"end":15956.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15957.58784375,"end":15962.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15963.696593750003,"end":15967.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":15967.645343750002,"end":15976.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15976.032218750002,"end":15977.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15978.175343750001,"end":15979.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15979.89659375,"end":15990.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15988.87409375,"end":15989.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15989.211593750002,"end":15989.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":15989.481593750003,"end":15989.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":15990.03846875,"end":16000.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15990.409718750001,"end":15992.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15993.126593750003,"end":15994.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15999.809093750002,"end":16006.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16006.12034375,"end":16009.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16006.356593750003,"end":16009.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16009.090343750002,"end":16009.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16009.765343750001,"end":16022.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16023.78846875,"end":16031.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16031.922218750002,"end":16035.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16035.989093750002,"end":16040.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16036.90034375,"end":16037.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16037.659718750001,"end":16037.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16037.69346875,"end":16037.727218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16041.50721875,"end":16045.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16046.316593750002,"end":16057.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16058.230343750001,"end":16059.782843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16060.255343750003,"end":16061.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16061.942843750003,"end":16064.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16064.558468750001,"end":16066.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16066.60034375,"end":16067.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16067.66346875,"end":16068.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16068.034718750001,"end":16069.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16069.013468750003,"end":16070.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16070.97096875,"end":16072.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16072.793468750002,"end":16072.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16073.519093750001,"end":16076.269718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16073.839718750001,"end":16074.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16075.206593750001,"end":16077.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16077.164093750001,"end":16077.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16077.180968750003,"end":16077.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16077.501593750003,"end":16077.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16077.552218750003,"end":16077.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16077.687218750001,"end":16078.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16078.024718750003,"end":16079.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16078.109093750001,"end":16078.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16079.35784375,"end":16079.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16079.50971875,"end":16079.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16079.62784375,"end":16079.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16079.661593750003,"end":16079.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16079.695343750001,"end":16079.745968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16079.745968750001,"end":16080.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16079.762843750003,"end":16079.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16080.167843750001,"end":16080.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16080.20159375,"end":16081.500968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16080.30284375,"end":16080.336593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16080.336593750002,"end":16080.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16080.35346875,"end":16083.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16081.500968750002,"end":16082.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16082.63159375,"end":16082.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16083.357218750003,"end":16084.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16083.610343750002,"end":16086.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16084.977218750002,"end":16085.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16085.618468750003,"end":16086.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16086.411593750003,"end":16086.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16086.462218750003,"end":16086.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16086.867218750001,"end":16086.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16086.90096875,"end":16086.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16086.968468750001,"end":16087.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16087.035968750002,"end":16087.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16087.96409375,"end":16088.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16088.38596875,"end":16088.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16088.43659375,"end":16088.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16088.48721875,"end":16088.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16088.976593750001,"end":16089.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16089.027218750001,"end":16089.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16089.837218750003,"end":16090.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16090.02284375,"end":16090.782218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16090.79909375,"end":16093.617218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16092.28409375,"end":16092.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16093.70159375,"end":16097.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16097.97096875,"end":16100.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16100.215343750002,"end":16100.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16100.333468750003,"end":16102.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16100.97471875,"end":16104.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16102.172843750002,"end":16102.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16102.29096875,"end":16103.235968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16103.235968750003,"end":16103.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16105.446593750003,"end":16109.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16109.024093750002,"end":16109.175968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16109.175968750002,"end":16109.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16109.88471875,"end":16113.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16110.610343750002,"end":16110.711593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16110.711593750002,"end":16111.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16114.32284375,"end":16125.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16125.03846875,"end":16152.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16152.34221875,"end":16154.046593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16154.316593750002,"end":16163.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":16160.442218750002,"end":16160.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16163.31096875,"end":16163.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16164.120968750001,"end":16166.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16165.16721875,"end":16165.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16165.487843750001,"end":16165.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16166.63534375,"end":16166.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16166.669093750003,"end":16167.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16167.816593750002,"end":16167.867218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16167.867218750001,"end":16170.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16171.44471875,"end":16172.507843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16172.676593750002,"end":16179.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16174.00971875,"end":16174.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16174.296593750001,"end":16174.532843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16174.532843750003,"end":16174.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16174.887218750002,"end":16176.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16181.367218750001,"end":16183.425968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16183.425968750002,"end":16183.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16184.117843750002,"end":16189.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16190.26034375,"end":16196.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16194.22596875,"end":16194.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16194.985343750002,"end":16198.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16198.42784375,"end":16200.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16198.47846875,"end":16199.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16199.946593750003,"end":16199.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16199.96346875,"end":16199.980343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16200.43596875,"end":16204.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16205.29596875,"end":16205.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16205.312843750002,"end":16205.852843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16205.852843750003,"end":16219.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16210.594718750002,"end":16210.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16210.67909375,"end":16210.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16210.746593750002,"end":16211.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16211.03346875,"end":16211.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":16211.607218750003,"end":16211.657843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16211.657843750003,"end":16216.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16219.58909375,"end":16224.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16225.309718750003,"end":16226.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16226.81159375,"end":16229.933468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16230.23721875,"end":16231.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16231.485968750003,"end":16233.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16234.270343750002,"end":16234.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16234.28721875,"end":16237.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16238.067218750002,"end":16238.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16238.97846875,"end":16239.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16239.029093750003,"end":16239.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16239.974093750003,"end":16240.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16241.67846875,"end":16245.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16245.812843750002,"end":16254.267218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16254.739718750003,"end":16256.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16257.372218750003,"end":16259.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16259.97096875,"end":16260.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16261.641593750002,"end":16263.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16264.45971875,"end":16266.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":16266.535343750002,"end":16269.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16269.032843750003,"end":16269.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16270.298468750003,"end":16272.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16272.84659375,"end":16277.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16278.33096875,"end":16280.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16278.668468750002,"end":16280.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16281.11534375,"end":16281.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16281.13221875,"end":16283.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16282.212218750003,"end":16283.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16283.91659375,"end":16283.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16283.950343750003,"end":16283.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16286.059718750003,"end":16295.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16288.60784375,"end":16289.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16297.079093750002,"end":16302.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16302.563468750002,"end":16304.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16304.48721875,"end":16305.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16306.714718750001,"end":16307.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16308.01409375,"end":16310.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16312.199093750001,"end":16312.941593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16313.565968750001,"end":16315.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16315.97909375,"end":16316.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16321.73346875,"end":16321.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16321.750343750002,"end":16322.425343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16322.965343750002,"end":16325.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16326.32346875,"end":16342.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16343.417843750001,"end":16378.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16347.180968750003,"end":16347.501593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16349.745968750001,"end":16350.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16378.821593750003,"end":16399.358468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16398.14346875,"end":16399.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16399.358468749997,"end":16399.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16399.544093750003,"end":16407.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16399.72971875,"end":16400.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16400.05034375,"end":16400.100968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16403.49284375,"end":16403.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16404.97784375,"end":16405.264718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16407.61034375,"end":16420.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16407.880343750003,"end":16408.639718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":16418.61284375,"end":16419.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16421.177843750003,"end":16427.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16426.324718750002,"end":16427.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16427.944718749997,"end":16431.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16431.640343749998,"end":16440.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16436.73659375,"end":16438.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16439.35221875,"end":16444.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16440.85409375,"end":16440.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16444.178468750004,"end":16445.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16445.747843750003,"end":16446.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16447.131593750004,"end":16456.733468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16455.687218749998,"end":16464.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16460.34471875,"end":16460.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16464.39471875,"end":16480.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16471.094093749998,"end":16471.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16480.442843750003,"end":16485.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16485.03284375,"end":16486.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16485.302843750003,"end":16486.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16486.93971875,"end":16493.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16493.537843750004,"end":16510.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16499.427218750003,"end":16500.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16510.834718750004,"end":16511.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16511.340968750003,"end":16512.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16512.47159375,"end":16517.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16516.622843750003,"end":16520.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16518.14159375,"end":16518.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16520.60534375,"end":16533.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16520.99346875,"end":16521.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16533.075968750003,"end":16534.780343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16534.780343749997,"end":16538.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16537.66596875,"end":16554.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16554.591593750003,"end":16554.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16554.64221875,"end":16560.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16555.654718750004,"end":16556.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16559.249093749997,"end":16566.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16566.77534375,"end":16573.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16571.31471875,"end":16575.280343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16575.280343749997,"end":16575.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16575.31409375,"end":16575.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16575.398468749998,"end":16575.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16575.499718749998,"end":16581.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16581.827843749998,"end":16581.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16581.929093749997,"end":16582.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16581.94596875,"end":16587.413468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16586.18159375,"end":16661.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16587.413468749997,"end":16587.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16587.919718750003,"end":16589.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16589.607218750003,"end":16589.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16604.62596875,"end":16604.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16660.887218750002,"end":16680.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16680.88409375,"end":16690.350968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16688.849093750003,"end":16689.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16689.895343750002,"end":16694.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16694.18159375,"end":16694.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16694.350343750004,"end":16748.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16698.974093750003,"end":16699.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16711.005968750003,"end":16713.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16732.099718750003,"end":16732.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16734.66471875,"end":16734.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16746.27471875,"end":16746.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16746.966593750003,"end":16752.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16751.168468750002,"end":16756.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16753.64909375,"end":16754.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16757.27721875,"end":16780.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16759.79159375,"end":16761.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16777.476593749998,"end":16794.655343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16789.356593750003,"end":16789.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16792.29284375,"end":16802.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16802.41784375,"end":16807.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16807.075343750003,"end":16818.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16808.32409375,"end":16809.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16811.78346875,"end":16813.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16813.622843750003,"end":16814.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":16814.027843750002,"end":16814.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16818.567218750002,"end":16818.600968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16818.719093749998,"end":16820.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16820.64284375,"end":16825.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16825.16534375,"end":16825.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16825.48596875,"end":16836.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16831.223468750002,"end":16831.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16831.560968750004,"end":16831.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":16831.59471875,"end":16831.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16833.332843750002,"end":16835.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16836.707843750002,"end":16868.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16837.19721875,"end":16837.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16842.79971875,"end":16844.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16848.874718749998,"end":16848.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":16848.92534375,"end":16849.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":16849.83659375,"end":16849.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16858.18971875,"end":16859.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16859.86034375,"end":16860.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16863.89346875,"end":16866.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16867.28534375,"end":16871.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16870.137218750002,"end":16872.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16873.410968750002,"end":16873.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16873.630343750003,"end":16873.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16873.984718749998,"end":16874.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16874.00159375,"end":16874.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16874.372843750003,"end":16874.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16874.72721875,"end":16878.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16874.74409375,"end":16874.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16875.739718750003,"end":16875.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16875.79034375,"end":16876.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16878.608468749997,"end":16881.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16880.920343750004,"end":16882.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16882.45596875,"end":16884.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":16883.94096875,"end":16884.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16884.02534375,"end":16885.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":16885.037843750004,"end":16887.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16887.467843749997,"end":16888.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16888.598468750002,"end":16888.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16888.750343749998,"end":16893.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16901.929718749998,"end":16904.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":16905.25409375,"end":16906.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16910.72159375,"end":16911.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16911.413468749997,"end":16912.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16913.13471875,"end":16917.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":16917.285968750002,"end":16917.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16917.48846875,"end":16930.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16930.397843749997,"end":16934.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16935.359093749998,"end":16938.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16938.632843749998,"end":16939.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16939.42596875,"end":16946.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16946.76659375,"end":16952.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16953.12846875,"end":16959.929093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16960.70534375,"end":16965.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16965.58221875,"end":16965.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16966.763468750003,"end":16966.780343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16966.780343749997,"end":16967.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16966.84784375,"end":16967.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16968.18096875,"end":16969.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16969.598468750002,"end":16978.069718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16979.04846875,"end":16979.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":16979.976593749998,"end":17004.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17004.867218749998,"end":17027.007218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17027.04096875,"end":17029.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17029.724093750003,"end":17039.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17039.039093749998,"end":17040.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17041.249718749998,"end":17045.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17045.38409375,"end":17045.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17045.41784375,"end":17045.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17045.637218750002,"end":17049.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17045.654093750003,"end":17045.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17048.33721875,"end":17049.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17049.029093750003,"end":17049.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17049.61971875,"end":17052.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17050.12596875,"end":17050.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17053.669718750003,"end":17061.921593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17054.24346875,"end":17054.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17054.26034375,"end":17054.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17054.37846875,"end":17054.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17054.715968750003,"end":17054.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17054.80034375,"end":17054.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17054.817218750002,"end":17054.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17062.05659375,"end":17068.249718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17068.350968749997,"end":17068.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17068.36784375,"end":17073.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17070.224093750003,"end":17070.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17070.257843749998,"end":17070.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17071.32096875,"end":17071.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17071.89471875,"end":17073.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17073.480968750002,"end":17073.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17073.497843750003,"end":17073.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17073.717218750004,"end":17074.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17074.223468750002,"end":17100.092843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17074.30784375,"end":17075.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17075.11784375,"end":17075.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17076.484718749998,"end":17076.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17076.51846875,"end":17078.982218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17100.531593749998,"end":17102.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17102.522843749997,"end":17120.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17112.968468749998,"end":17113.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17113.93034375,"end":17114.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17121.186593749997,"end":17122.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17123.22846875,"end":17143.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17130.029093750003,"end":17130.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17130.164093749998,"end":17130.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17130.61971875,"end":17130.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17130.974093750003,"end":17134.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":17134.973468750002,"end":17135.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17135.02409375,"end":17137.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17137.825343750003,"end":17137.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17137.960343749997,"end":17138.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17143.07346875,"end":17143.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17143.242218749998,"end":17144.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17143.29284375,"end":17160.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17158.429718749998,"end":17171.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17172.14909375,"end":17177.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17177.56596875,"end":17178.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17178.983468749997,"end":17180.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17182.122218750003,"end":17186.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17182.358468749997,"end":17194.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17187.89346875,"end":17187.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17187.97784375,"end":17188.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17188.028468750003,"end":17188.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17188.973468750002,"end":17189.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17189.02409375,"end":17189.850968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17192.21346875,"end":17194.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17194.896593750003,"end":17226.250343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17223.95534375,"end":17224.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17224.022843749997,"end":17224.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17224.090343750002,"end":17227.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17227.02659375,"end":17229.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17227.97159375,"end":17229.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17230.536593750003,"end":17238.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17239.092218750004,"end":17249.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17249.453468749998,"end":17254.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17254.802843750003,"end":17254.937843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17254.95471875,"end":17266.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17263.645343750002,"end":17264.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17264.99534375,"end":17281.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17266.851593749998,"end":17268.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17281.63409375,"end":17286.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17287.32096875,"end":17294.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17294.965343750002,"end":17301.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17301.209093750003,"end":17308.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17308.97159375,"end":17318.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17311.94159375,"end":17312.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17320.02471875,"end":17320.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17320.05846875,"end":17320.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17320.96971875,"end":17321.054093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17321.054093749997,"end":17321.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17321.07096875,"end":17321.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17321.340968750003,"end":17321.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17321.50971875,"end":17324.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17324.59784375,"end":17338.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17338.131593750004,"end":17338.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17340.257843749998,"end":17340.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17340.61221875,"end":17340.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17340.780968749998,"end":17340.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17340.81471875,"end":17340.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17340.966593750003,"end":17341.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17341.911593750003,"end":17343.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17343.64971875,"end":17350.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17343.717218750004,"end":17344.358468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17351.226593749998,"end":17355.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17351.26034375,"end":17355.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17355.090968750003,"end":17355.546593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17355.49596875,"end":17356.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17355.546593749998,"end":17355.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17356.694093750004,"end":17358.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17356.710968749998,"end":17359.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17359.61346875,"end":17377.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17368.607843750004,"end":17370.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17378.091593750003,"end":17381.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17378.88471875,"end":17412.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17410.187843749998,"end":17411.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17412.44909375,"end":17412.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17412.97221875,"end":17414.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17413.07346875,"end":17413.124093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17413.124093749997,"end":17435.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17435.466593750003,"end":17435.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17435.85471875,"end":17442.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17441.64284375,"end":17441.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17441.676593750002,"end":17441.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17441.693468750003,"end":17441.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17441.74409375,"end":17441.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17441.777843750002,"end":17441.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17441.895968750003,"end":17441.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17441.912843750004,"end":17441.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17442.351593749998,"end":17445.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17442.638468750003,"end":17460.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17461.319093750004,"end":17462.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17462.97284375,"end":17463.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17463.732218750003,"end":17470.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17470.887218750002,"end":17480.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":17475.764093750004,"end":17476.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17480.826593750004,"end":17488.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17488.521593750003,"end":17492.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17491.052843750003,"end":17491.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17491.96409375,"end":17492.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17492.58846875,"end":17492.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17493.179093749997,"end":17508.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17493.65159375,"end":17493.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17493.87096875,"end":17493.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17493.97221875,"end":17494.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":17494.208468750003,"end":17494.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17494.90034375,"end":17494.967843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17496.030968749998,"end":17496.132218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":17496.132218749997,"end":17496.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17496.36846875,"end":17496.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17497.56659375,"end":17497.920968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17508.80534375,"end":17508.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17508.92346875,"end":17508.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17508.974093750003,"end":17509.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17509.395968750003,"end":17509.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17511.23534375,"end":17514.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17515.16721875,"end":17519.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17520.077843749998,"end":17523.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17523.99284375,"end":17527.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17528.076593750004,"end":17531.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17532.12659375,"end":17535.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17536.294718750003,"end":17538.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17539.382843749998,"end":17542.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17543.33159375,"end":17545.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17555.295968749997,"end":17557.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":17557.23659375,"end":17558.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17561.640968749998,"end":17561.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17562.95721875,"end":17568.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17568.71159375,"end":17576.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17576.811593749997,"end":17577.233468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17577.06471875,"end":17589.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17589.94034375,"end":17590.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17590.26096875,"end":17605.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17590.277843750002,"end":17590.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17605.583468750003,"end":17607.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17607.64221875,"end":17610.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17610.93284375,"end":17612.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17612.957843750002,"end":17614.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17614.020968750003,"end":17614.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17614.07159375,"end":17615.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17615.89409375,"end":17616.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17617.24409375,"end":17619.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17620.146593750003,"end":17621.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17621.395343750002,"end":17625.107843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17625.614093750002,"end":17629.444718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17629.765343749998,"end":17631.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17632.178468750004,"end":17649.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17649.981593750003,"end":17650.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17650.26846875,"end":17663.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17664.139718749997,"end":17668.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17668.999718749998,"end":17672.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17672.256593750004,"end":17686.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17686.97159375,"end":17692.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17692.607843750004,"end":17697.788468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17697.974093750003,"end":17712.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17713.24596875,"end":17734.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17734.96409375,"end":17735.858468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17736.34784375,"end":17739.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17740.262843750003,"end":17777.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17777.404718750004,"end":17807.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17787.25971875,"end":17787.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17806.851593749998,"end":17807.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17807.49284375,"end":17809.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17808.387218750002,"end":17809.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17809.669718750003,"end":17817.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17811.981593750003,"end":17812.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17817.044093750003,"end":17817.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17817.33096875,"end":17819.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17819.575343750003,"end":17819.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17819.794718750003,"end":17821.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17822.241593749997,"end":17831.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17832.19784375,"end":17872.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17872.832843750002,"end":17889.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17881.03409375,"end":17881.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":17881.45596875,"end":17881.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17887.14284375,"end":17887.311593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17889.03284375,"end":17901.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17889.285968750002,"end":17891.108468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17901.68909375,"end":17901.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17901.99284375,"end":17934.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17935.13534375,"end":17938.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17938.29096875,"end":17952.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":17952.820343749998,"end":17953.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17953.107218750003,"end":17959.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17959.975343750004,"end":17960.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17960.02596875,"end":17960.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17960.97096875,"end":17978.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17963.18159375,"end":17964.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17968.26096875,"end":17968.311593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":17968.328468749998,"end":17968.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":17978.38596875,"end":18021.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18022.092218750004,"end":18063.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18063.14909375,"end":18092.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":18092.05596875,"end":18092.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18092.15721875,"end":18102.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18102.63659375,"end":18104.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18104.62784375,"end":18108.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18108.32346875,"end":18110.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18110.33159375,"end":18118.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":18112.289093749998,"end":18112.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18114.820343749998,"end":18116.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":18116.96346875,"end":18118.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18118.060343750003,"end":18118.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18118.41471875,"end":18139.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18119.47784375,"end":18119.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":18119.51159375,"end":18119.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":18121.16534375,"end":18121.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":18123.122843750003,"end":18123.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":18135.171593749998,"end":18136.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18139.44096875,"end":18147.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18141.887843750003,"end":18141.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18141.904718750004,"end":18142.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18145.21221875,"end":18146.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18147.54096875,"end":18151.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18151.57409375,"end":18154.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18155.13471875,"end":18158.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18158.39159375,"end":18161.530343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18162.22221875,"end":18168.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18169.242218749998,"end":18175.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18176.160968750002,"end":18177.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18177.89909375,"end":18181.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":18181.898468749998,"end":18195.09471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1850.244,"end":1856.714,"text":"我們請主任秘書報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員13人以主法定人數"},{"start":1858.458,"end":1883.485,"text":"現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第二會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月25日星期一上午九十二分至下午四十三十分113年11月27日星期三上午九十二分至下午四十五十九分地點紅樓202會議室出席委員邁域正委員等14人列席委員鄭天才委員等22人"},{"start":1884.665,"end":1908.715,"text":"列席官員11月25日﹐原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇及相關人員﹐不當當產處理委員會主任委員林峰正及相關人員。11月27日﹐海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲及相關人員﹐主席張昭吉委員洪璐。11月25日﹐報告事項﹐宣讀上次會議議事錄﹐決定確定。討論事項一﹐繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會原住民族文化發展中心部分。"},{"start":1909.375,"end":1937.54,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金、原住民族綜合發展基金。三、繼續審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會114年度預算書案。四、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預算。決議一、114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會原住民族文化發展中心部分。"},{"start":1938.38,"end":1941.241,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":1954.366,"end":1957.83,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":1975.009,"end":1997.979,"text":"本項通過決議51項請參閱。第九項原住民族文化發展中心1億1616萬元照列本項提案二案保留送院會處理提案內容請參閱。本項通過決議四項請參閱。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金原住民族綜合發展基金"},{"start":1998.979,"end":2020.773,"text":"總收入總支出本期短處結繳供庫轉投資計劃固定資產建設改良擴充供庫增撥基金額補辦預算儲物列數外其餘均照列。通過決議四項請參閱。三、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會114年度預算書案工作計劃收入支出及餘處均照列。通過決議兩項請參閱。"},{"start":2022.774,"end":2036.169,"text":"四、審查原住民族委員會函送財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會114年度預算書案收入支出逾處及本期剩餘均照列。通過主決議兩項請參閱。五、114年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會單位預算稅務部分照列。"},{"start":2042.035,"end":2063.277,"text":"稅出部分第17項不當黨產處理委員會原列5250萬元,僅列第二幕黨產處理業務300萬元,其餘均照列改列為4950萬元。本項通過決議一項,請參院。六、其他事項,主席宣告本次會議議程所列有關處理114年度之預算,統一作以下三點宣告。"},{"start":2063.757,"end":2086.923,"text":"一、有關各位委員之提案為時討論聚焦一、預算科目編排稅入部分以項為單位稅出部分原力處理到募資科目為原則。二、提案委員如有提出凍結相關預算者除由委員特別聲明意外解凍條件均一例改為向本委員會提出書面報告後時的凍結。三、處理預算提案時如提案委員不在場一、召委會議共事該提案不再處理。"},{"start":2087.563,"end":2106.417,"text":"委乳該案協商前相關部會已跟提案委員溝通完成：並將書面送至本委員會及依該溝通結果處理。七、114年度中央政府總預算案關於原住民族委員會原住民族文化發展中心不當黨產處理委員會單位預算均以審查完略。分別每據審查報告函送財政委員會提報院會。"},{"start":2107.478,"end":2128.968,"text":"八、114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於原住民族委員會主管作業基金、原住民族綜合發展基金審查完均。每具審查報告函送財政委員會提報院會。九、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會及財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會114年度預算書案均已審查完均。"},{"start":2129.968,"end":2155.598,"text":"4稅入預算確定後分別擬據審查報告提報院會公決﹐不需交由黨團協商﹐並推請張昭及委員紅鹿與院會討論時做補充說明。11月27日報告事項﹐邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況﹐並備質詢。報告事項與討論事項合併詢答﹐海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲報告﹐委員蔓玉珍等11人質詢﹐由海洋委員會主任委員管碧玲及相關人員答覆說明。"},{"start":2156.258,"end":2180.347,"text":"決定一、登記發言委員處不在場者外其餘均已發言完必詢答結束。二、委員吳啟明、丁薛忠、徐宇貞、羅志強、陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答覆部分相關機關與一周內另以書面答覆並複製本會。討論事項一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於海洋委員會部分。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於海洋委員會海巡署及所屬。"},{"start":2181.027,"end":2197.583,"text":"海洋委員會海洋保育署國家海洋研究院部分。三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於海洋委員會主管特別收入基金海洋污染防治基金。決議一、114年度中央政府總預算案關於海洋委員會海洋委員會海巡署及所屬。"},{"start":2198.203,"end":2223.053,"text":"海洋文匯海洋保育署國家海洋研究院部分稅入部分第二款第三款第四款及第七款除列書外其餘均照列稅出部分第二十四款海洋文匯主管第一項海洋文匯原列十一億七千五百二十四萬九千元簡列第二幕海洋業務八百萬元其餘均照列改列為十一億六千七百二十四萬九千元本項通過決議三十三項請參院"},{"start":2224.634,"end":2235.637,"text":"第二項海巡署及所屬288億3520萬9千元。減列第二幕海巡業務700萬元科目自行調整其餘均照列改列為288億2820萬9千元。本項通過決議39項請參閱。第三項海洋保育署原列8億6088萬2千元。減列第二幕海洋保育業務向下綜合規劃作業之業務費30萬元其餘均照列改列為"},{"start":2254.603,"end":2258.245,"text":"8億6千零58萬2千元本項通過決議17項請參閱。第四項國家海洋研究院26億6千752萬1千元照列本項通過決議18項請參閱。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於"},{"start":2272.952,"end":2295.689,"text":"海洋委員會主管特別收入基金海洋污染防治基金基金來源結繳公庫不辦預算。除劣數外其餘均照列。通過主決議一項。請參閱。三、114年度中央政府總預算案關於海洋委員會海洋委員會海巡署及所屬海洋委員會海洋保育署國家海洋研究院部分審查完略。拟據審查報告函送財政委員會提報院會。"},{"start":2297.411,"end":2310.24,"text":"四、114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於海洋委員會主管特別收入基金海洋污染防治基金預算案審查完略。擬拘審查報告函送財政委員會提報院會。宣讀完畢。請問各位委員,上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏?"},{"start":2318.527,"end":2325.011,"text":"沒有,那我們現在,那就議事錄確定。那我們現在繼續進行報告事項和討論事項,請宣讀。"},{"start":2331.006,"end":2351.564,"text":"主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況．並備質詢。五、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。六、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。七、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策經會114年度預算書案。"},{"start":2357.563,"end":2384.469,"text":"本日議程所列報告事項和討論事項合併詢答現在介紹在場委員以及列席的官員我們在場的委員有徐宇貞委員張鴻祿委員王美惠委員施巧惠委員黃潔委員李博義委員"},{"start":2387.262,"end":2407.229,"text":"我們現在介紹列席的官員,我們陸委會的主委,邱垂正,邱主委。財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長,吳豐山董事長。還有財團法人海峽交流基金會副董事長兼秘書長,羅文嘉秘書長。"},{"start":2411.513,"end":2425.898,"text":"以及財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會董事長賴秀儒。行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員李易柔李專委。請陸委會的邱主委垂政報告。"},{"start":2438.578,"end":2442.601,"text":"好,請業務報告和預算案一併報告。主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生,大家早安。承蒙貴委員會的邀請,報告本會業務推動情形,僅提出口頭報告,並備詳細書面報告,敬請大家指教。"},{"start":2462.836,"end":2483.649,"text":"那在近期工作重點有如列的以下7項一、審慎應處中共對台兩手策略堅定捍衛國家主權今年520後中共加大對台文攻武嚇經濟脅迫灰色地帶侵擾及法律戰並在國際場域重申其一中原則扭曲聯大2758號決議打壓台灣國際空間另外"},{"start":2487.711,"end":2513.104,"text":"中共在7月20屆三中全會通過300多項任務的決定,涉台部分強調深化兩岸融合發展,亦透過兩岸交流活動持續促融促統。面對中共對台的脅迫施壓,政府站穩中華民國憲政體制秉持四個堅持,不卑不亢維持憲傳,堅定維護國家主權及台海和平。二、"},{"start":2513.724,"end":2535.623,"text":"持續推動兩岸觀光旅遊,循序漸進,小三通客運常態化。政府在去年就公布了兩岸觀光旅遊相關規劃,並於去年9月底就做好準備,只要陸方開放入客,旅行社送件申請就可落實。至於國人賦入,政府從未"},{"start":2536.844,"end":2546.234,"text":"限制。那麼有關旅行業組團賦入的部分政府已宣布在6月1號前規劃的團體仍可持續出團。"},{"start":2548.137,"end":2572.239,"text":"令我們在今年4月、8月陸方分別宣布恢復福建居民到馬祖金門旅遊,其後申請到馬祖金門的旅遊採線團、旅遊團體及自由行這些個案,都有我政府主管機關專案審查許可,同時在11月1日起回歸以前的做法,"},{"start":2572.679,"end":2597.947,"text":"由移民署審核,目前運作良好。另外,配合小三通的旅運需求,自今年4月開始,馬祖小三通兩條客運航線恢復至疫情每週14班。九月起,今夏小三通客運航班由每日8班調整到每日10班,目前並啟動加班機制,有效因應旅運需求。三、"},{"start":2599.087,"end":2603.251,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":2620.107,"end":2641.611,"text":"貨品貿易早收優惠並停止執行對台灣的34項濃郁產品免徵進口關稅更揚言研究進一步採取經濟措施對於中共將兩岸互賴的經貿措施作為對台統戰或脅迫的工具政府以積極輔導國內業者轉型升級持續開拓多元外交市場"},{"start":2646.152,"end":2657.476,"text":"降低臺灣產品在中國大陸單一市場的依賴,維護業者及農民的權益。另外,針對陸方片片認定我方貿易措施構成貿易壁壘,並對我採取報復措施。"},{"start":2663.513,"end":2691.902,"text":"政府將持續透過WTO及ECFA既有的協議機制務實溝通解決爭議。四、妥善處理0214金門事件胡姓吊客平安返金。0214金門事件事涉政府公權力本會與海基會、海巡署等單位成立專案小組評估事態發展整合協調相關部門的意見在兩岸既有的溝通管道持續溝通下已於7月30日"},{"start":2692.843,"end":2707.114,"text":"務實推動相關問題妥善解決。同時有關於胡姓吊客因海上泥寒遭陸方長期扣留陸方也在8月7日安全送返胡姓吊客。五、開放兩岸同性伴侶與"},{"start":2708.015,"end":2727.091,"text":"第三地結婚及來台辦理結婚登記。為尊重行政法院判決政府經過整體政策評估後由主管機關內政部發布函示同性伴侶得比照現行兩岸異性與第三地結婚相關規定於9月19日起檢附相關向我們駐外機構驗證結婚"},{"start":2734.357,"end":2761.825,"text":"證書及相關應備文件由相關機關進行面談。經過面談之後,得以回到臺灣來向各該互證機關辦理結婚登記。至於國人與中國大陸人士不是在第三地辦理結婚者,仍然應該依兩條例及相關實務相關的規定來辦理。六、持續關注陸方國安法制,提醒國人留意賦入風險。"},{"start":2763.311,"end":2788.599,"text":"近年陸方陸續修訂相關國安法令並頒布審讀22條意見香港則於今年3月通過實施維護國家安全條例近期政府已陸續接獲多起國人反映負入遭到非法盤問、扣押、留置等案件嚴重威脅國人之人身安全"},{"start":2790.185,"end":2807.67,"text":"經整體評估,我們在6月27日提升副陸港澳旅遊警示為橙色,建議國人避免非必要的副陸港澳旅行。另外,本會也建置了國人副陸港澳動態登陸系統,還有最近也建置了風險諮詢專線,國人可以在出發前"},{"start":2813.388,"end":2836.309,"text":"向該系統登錄相關資訊,以便在有需要的時候得到政府必要的協處。另外,我們也持續辦理學生研習營隊,補助各大學開設試讀中國課程,促進青年學子深入了解整體兩岸情勢及兩岸關係發展,並提醒附入可能的風險以及因應作為建議。七、"},{"start":2837.89,"end":2861.365,"text":"我們持續密註港澳情勢採取應變措施,維護國家安全及利益。鑒於香港持續有涉及國安之拘捕檢控的案例,針對相關的情勢,本會持續收整香港涉國安案件的行為樣態,並公布相關的注意事項實施要點,提醒國人注意風險。"},{"start":2862.465,"end":2879.854,"text":"並完善急難救助協處機制並強化保障公務機密及公務人員安全。二、未來工作的方向。我們持續研判中共對台動向維護台海和平及區域的安全。中共對台政策"},{"start":2880.894,"end":2894.429,"text":"中國大陸內外部的情勢及美中關係發展影響本會將持續掌握美國總統大選後美中關係區域及兩岸情勢的變化評估中共對台策略及動態管控可能風險並積極落實"},{"start":2898.255,"end":2923.335,"text":"賴總統所宣示的和平四大支柱行動方案,強化自我防衛的能力與經濟社會韌性,並與全球民主國家共同發揮嚇阻力量維護台海和平及區域安全。二、關注陸方對台經貿作為,強化兩岸經貿風險管理。我們將持續關懷台商的需求,協助分散風險,強化"},{"start":2925.817,"end":2937.206,"text":"供應鏈的韌性、輔導產業轉型及多元佈局以維護臺灣整體的經濟韌性安全以及永續發展。另外,有關大院決議"},{"start":2938.786,"end":2963.524,"text":"在維護我方安全、增進兩岸和平發展、解除人民主團赴大陸觀光之限制。考陽陸方近年仍然推出各項國安法規及審讀22條,威脅國人赴陸人身安全。政府將持續評估及推動。三、持續推動陸生來台學習、關懷在台陸配及陸港澳人士生活。"},{"start":2964.909,"end":2968.27,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":2987.473,"end":3013.552,"text":"協助陸配融入臺灣社會本會也持續訪視各地弱勢的陸配及與移民組合辦相關的活動關懷偏遠地區陸配的生活宣導政府相關政策以及法規說明此外政府也持續關懷在台的港澳人士積極協助港澳人士在台生活所遭遇的問題以完善相關的照顧與服務"},{"start":3016.016,"end":3022.051,"text":"四、強化兩岸人員往來安全管理措施,營造兩岸健康有序的交流環境。"},{"start":3027.281,"end":3051.354,"text":"我們賴總統有強調兩岸對等尊嚴、健康有序、對話交流的承諾不變政府將持續配合整體及兩岸情勢的發展滾動檢視兩岸交流規範及管理機制循序穩健地調整中國大陸人士入境措施並強化人員安全的管理"},{"start":3051.974,"end":3059.118,"text":"以防範中共對台各領域的統戰、滲透維護國家安全並營造健康有趣的兩岸交流環境。結語"},{"start":3062.016,"end":3088.657,"text":"賴總統已於國慶談話強調四個不變,捍衛國家主權的決心不變,維持臺海和平穩定現狀的努力不變,希望兩岸對等尊嚴、健康有序對話交流的承諾不變,守護臺灣自由民主生活方式的堅持不變,本會要呼籲陸方要正視中華民國客觀存在的事實,認真理解我方所傳達的善意,與臺灣民選合法政府進行對話,務實處理"},{"start":3091.534,"end":3117.796,"text":"兩岸關係透過逐步堆疊善意形成正向循環為兩岸的良性互動創造有利條件與我方共同承擔維護起區域安全及全球和平的國際責任。以上報告敬請各位委員指教。謝謝。那我緊接著就我們陸委會114年度施政報告及收支預算報告案跟各位檢要報告"},{"start":3120.677,"end":3147.17,"text":"在113年度已過期間預算執行情形請大家參閱書面紮要。我這邊僅就114年度預算配合施政計劃編列情形本會依據行政院114年度施政方針及合併的預算額度並因應台海情勢變化及本會"},{"start":3148.41,"end":3164.655,"text":"推動務實穩健的兩岸政策及未來發展需要編訂114年度的施政計劃相關的工作重點以及預算的配置如下我們在114年度預算編列了10億3918萬6千元較本年度113年度的法定預算增列了1億1084千元"},{"start":3174.378,"end":3185.104,"text":"主要是捐贈海基會辦理政府委託業務等經費7521萬5000元及配合113年度條清增列本會人員維持費用1385萬9000元。相關的預算分配如下。一、綜合規劃業務編列了3066萬5000元佔比2.95%。工作的重點因應兩岸情勢的變化及中共對台政策"},{"start":3203.435,"end":3223.124,"text":"結合專業能量擴大與國內外的智庫互動合作,進行兩岸及中國大陸相關議題的研討會、座談、研究等,並辦理相關民調加強與地方政府的互動合作,多面向的收吸情勢資訊及政策建言,作為政府規劃兩岸政策的參考。二、"},{"start":3226.612,"end":3241.12,"text":"經濟業務我們編列了2563萬9千元占比2.47百分比工作的重點為收吸國際中國大陸兩岸經濟情勢變化強化兩岸經貿安全跟風險控管"},{"start":3242.06,"end":3259.314,"text":"演繹跟落實兩岸經貿政策及互動策略,秉持對等尊嚴,推動兩岸經貿健康有序交流,持續與各界溝通諮詢兩岸經貿政策,以完善兩岸經貿管理政策並凝聚社會共識,關懷服務台商,提升台商的聯繫及輔導工作效能。"},{"start":3261.576,"end":3265.618,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3285.327,"end":3299.724,"text":"管理作為妥善相關衍生問題,完備風險管理措施,強化公務人員及特定身份人員賦入管理及兩岸交流規範之宣導,落實兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助等法陣內的協議。"},{"start":3301.986,"end":3322.176,"text":"執行並維護國人權益根據辦理政府緊急服務電話及關懷簡訊之發送,持續宣導國人賦入前使用本會國人賦入港澳動態登錄系統,完善國人賦入人身安全協處機制,提升海基會的服務效能,落實執行政府委託事項。"},{"start":3322.816,"end":3326.699,"text":"在港澳門帳業務部分共編列1億3558萬元佔比13.05%其中捐助撤進費3476萬1千元佔比3.35%"},{"start":3340.1,"end":3360.247,"text":"香港辦事處及澳門辦事處編列8,205,000元佔比7.89。工作重點為密駐港澳情勢發展、健全安全管理機制及交流規範,維持住宿管務的正常運作,維護國家安全及保障民眾權益,關懷照顧在"},{"start":3361.507,"end":3386.174,"text":"臺港澳人士推進臺港澳健康有序交流。在聯絡業務部分編列了3171萬4千元佔比3.05%工作重點為強化兩岸政策溝通說明提高國人附入港澳之人身安全警覺意識反制中共對臺認知作戰及澄清錯假消息並積極運用本會社群平台及多元傳播管道"},{"start":3387.034,"end":3401.683,"text":"提升各界對政府兩岸政策的認同與支持加強國內外媒體聯繫及服務掌握兩岸關係的新聞報導動態及時回應外界關切的兩岸議題並提供正確的政策資訊"},{"start":3403.876,"end":3423.553,"text":"聯繫安排國際訪兵拜會及座談,及時向各國重要訪兵傳達政府兩岸政策訊息,並積極規劃辦理本會海外出訪計畫,加強與國際訪兵駐台使節的互動交流,爭取民主東門,國家由我力量持續就兩岸政策議題,"},{"start":3424.253,"end":3426.696,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3443.547,"end":3461.7,"text":"文教交流良性互動並增進臺灣青少年學生對中國大陸嗜讀能力並深入了解兩岸關係現況及兩岸政策。營造陸生來臺就學友善環境提醒臺灣學生附入就學發展風險運用多元管道促進兩岸資訊對等交流"},{"start":3465.463,"end":3483.658,"text":"傳遞臺灣民主自由價值及社會發展現況,增進兩岸人民相互了解。在一般行政共編列4億8,572萬1千元,佔比46.74%,主要系人事費、基本行政工作維持及治安防護所需要的經費。"},{"start":3484.458,"end":3508.064,"text":"均用以提升行政作業效能。八、第一預備金共編列兩百萬。符合預算法第22條規定編列供業務持續。有關本會114年度稅出稅入的編列情形請大家參閱稅入來源別以及我們後續的付表一、二的部分。結語"},{"start":3509.905,"end":3536.844,"text":"台海和平穩定修觀我們國家的生存發展也是全球安全繁榮不可或缺的要素本會將本於職責以務實穩健及負責任的態度推動兩岸良性互動交流並期待兩岸透過善意堆疊形成正向循環逐步建構兩岸和平穩定關係以上報告敬請各位委員給予指教並鼎力支持謝謝"},{"start":3541.465,"end":3544.306,"text":"謝謝邱主委接下來請海基會吳董事長封刪報告主席各位委員各位女士各位先生有兩個理由我想請求主席同意由本會秘書長來做業務報告第一個理由是羅秘書長比我早五個月"},{"start":3571.789,"end":3576.893,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3600.373,"end":3621.047,"text":"因為按照慣例還有我們這個立法院各委員會我看即便是就任一兩年的主管他們好像也是照著念嘛所以你可以照著他的口頭報告念一下念完就可以那個照紙念對各位所以我們這個"},{"start":3625.086,"end":3633.891,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3658.479,"end":3661.627,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3677.519,"end":3701.841,"text":"主席和各位委員先進,感謝大家的支持。那,奉董事長指示,我簡單口頭報告有關於113年度從1月到現在11月止重點的業務報告。海經衛是受政府委託來執行兩岸相關交流協商服務,來保障人民權益的民間基金會單位。"},{"start":3702.722,"end":3707.304,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3723.571,"end":3749.803,"text":"在今年的第12屆在金門的金夏永渡我個人代表海基會前往出席參加這些活動其他民間團體舉辦兩岸相關活動需要海基會參與出席海基會都全力以赴第二項海基會主要在做服務的部分海基會設有一個24小時的緊急服務專線這24小時緊急服務專線是全年無休"},{"start":3750.723,"end":3777.371,"text":"只要國人到中國大陸碰到任何問題無法解決需要緊急協助的時候都可以打這個緊急專線那在今年度1月到12月我們一共協處了有574案接了大概有電話更多但協處了574案那除此之外目前小三通的業務持續在進行小三通業務進行之後本會特別在今年的7月以及10月"},{"start":3778.462,"end":3779.923,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3800.313,"end":3805.957,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3824.989,"end":3826.61,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3847.6,"end":3850.121,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3865.305,"end":3880.862,"text":"第三項,我們對於大陸的台商子女目前在三所台商學校有5570個台灣的小孩是在三所台商學校念的是台灣的教科書那老師也是台灣派過去的"},{"start":3881.443,"end":3885.084,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3901.67,"end":3903.851,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3919.975,"end":3922.656,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3949.87,"end":3950.531,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3972.313,"end":3974.534,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":3992.844,"end":3994.945,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4013.633,"end":4030.299,"text":"分別在桃園、台南等縣市安排他們參訪相關的環境。除了之外,有些台商他不僅想回來台灣,他也想去東南亞其他國家。所以我們在今年首次安排了大陸台商跟亞洲的台商"},{"start":4030.939,"end":4031.139,"text":"文書查證和文書送達業務。"},{"start":4060.765,"end":4087.711,"text":"院政部分在今年113年度一共完成了12萬多件。四、審查司法互助文書送達部分完成了5129件。這是在例行性提供兩岸交流往來中有關於過去簽訂相關協議落實的部分在逐漸的推動。除此之外,海基委受陸委會委託,我們執行有關在中國大陸的配偶駕來台灣,也許是"},{"start":4090.711,"end":4093.833,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4105.982,"end":4107.343,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4122.757,"end":4126.7,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4145.492,"end":4174.407,"text":"最後這個意見參考那最後一下海基位除了辦理有文書驗證以及作為政府重要的這個委託機關之外所以在資訊安全的部分我們也被列為重點的這個項目所以在今年份我們完成了整個海基位異地備援的文書驗證系統以及我們即將建置足夠的內外防火牆防止各種這個駭客入侵的各種作為這是在資訊安全部分強化"},{"start":4174.887,"end":4175.948,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4193.96,"end":4217.326,"text":"今年我們陸委會補助海基會的比例增加是因為在去年度陸委會對海基會的政府補助款比例是有57%但是因為我們考慮海基會執行是兩岸相關業務而且執行政府委託業務所以我們在陸委會的支持之下在114年度預算由政府的補助款比例有57%提高到78%"},{"start":4219.446,"end":4238.196,"text":"所以實際上海基會在114年度的預算今天再送到大院來審查預算我們實際增加幅度是4418萬那4418萬主要用在三個部分第一部分是人事薪資的調整以及勞健保按照法定必須增加的部分這大概佔了2000萬左右"},{"start":4239.837,"end":4267.169,"text":"所以實際增加業務費另外是兩千萬,另外兩千萬用在大陸台商、紫米、我們多整舉辦夏令營、東令營以及探索營那這部分,以及強化在整個兩岸國際情勢沿襲掌握對中國勢獨、中國變化的相關資料上那以上是針對整個海基會有關113年度業務報告與114年度這個預算編列情形向大院做匯報報告,敬請各位指教,謝謝"},{"start":4277.392,"end":4297.557,"text":"其他單位的報告請委員們自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答委員諮詢前原例做了幾點宣告第一個每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午10點30分截止發言登記"},{"start":4301.198,"end":4303.64,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4329.819,"end":4337.484,"text":"我請邱主委跟羅文嘉副董事長邱主委、羅副董事長我想請問一下我們現在跟中國我們關係是不讀不回還是已讀不回還是偶爾看新情回"},{"start":4357.801,"end":4374.875,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在跟中國大陸的這個溝通聯繫我們是依照過去已經有的這些溝通聯繫大概分三個部分簡單說就好了那當然在陸委會跟國財辦海基會跟海協會"},{"start":4377.144,"end":4384.188,"text":"我在海基會任職,我想去年我們給對岸3179封信。我想他已讀不回,但有處理。我們陸委會其餘避免誤解誤判,我們認為有價值的資訊還是提供給他們參考。此外,我們兩岸目前正在落實的企業,兩岸企業有26項。"},{"start":4400.979,"end":4426.328,"text":"二十六項工作層級的都有在互動那進一步互動是沒有但是我們現在兩岸的大方向還是依照兩岸協議另外就是兩岸之間有許多的智庫、民間、台商也會傳遞有意義的資料避免兩岸誤解誤判我其實不需要我簡單的我要請教而已我為什麼要問這個問題"},{"start":4428.291,"end":4447.828,"text":"我不知道主委跟副董事長在10月份在中國的廣東有我們台灣的人被扣押然後呢是因為宗教是因為一貫道我不知道我們有沒有接收到這個訊息"},{"start":4449.58,"end":4452.123,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":4466.929,"end":4487.58,"text":"在今年的10月上旬,如果正確日期我們所知道應該差不多10月10號前後,在中國的中山,中山這個地區,那有一處民宅,這個在中國的公安突然進去,然後逮捕了裡頭的一些多少人員,詳細數字我們不知道。"},{"start":4488.2,"end":4490.421,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4507.319,"end":4521.516,"text":"我們知道這個事情是在10月下旬才知道是因為家屬來向海基會陳情希望海基會能夠提供協助我們隨即如同剛才講我們隨即也立即傳真給對岸的海協會"},{"start":4523.137,"end":4526.56,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4552.857,"end":4555.858,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4574.606,"end":4598.901,"text":"這三位的家屬在海基會有過非常深入的討論如何能夠更多的了解他們資訊以及提供協助那目前做到的是提供了律師有關大陸律師協助他們那以上是我們掌握的資料謝謝就中國的法令來講對中間有沒有很明確的確定這個非法集會有可能是被判徒刑的吧"},{"start":4600.592,"end":4602.074,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4609.585,"end":4611.206,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4632.845,"end":4641.89,"text":"這個是中國的他本身的法律規定我為什麼特別請教這個一貫道在台灣大概有200萬的道卿"},{"start":4643.143,"end":4662.75,"text":"那如果中國要對一貫道出手,可能入海關、道青有金書有什麼的話,可能就會被盤查。這個我覺得可能要像我們台灣一貫道的道青要多一點宣傳,不然很多都是有上年紀的人,他們根本不知道。"},{"start":4663.61,"end":4665.551,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4689.69,"end":4690.874,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4696.37,"end":4722.215,"text":"我想委員在講那個...不不你回答我是不是啊就好了我想我們當然是中華民國啊對啊對所以我要說這次這個某個基金會然後有很多中國的學生來啊你有沒有覺得他們的言論有超過了學生的參訪的條件講到了很多政治的層面呢"},{"start":4722.555,"end":4745.393,"text":"是,跟委員報告,這次馬英九基金會的陸生團到臺灣來,也包括有陸團的這些代表,講了這個中國臺北,我想這個傷害了臺灣人民情感,那麼這些矮化臺灣的言論也被大家所無法接受。"},{"start":4747.933,"end":4769.719,"text":"這個已經涉及違反大陸人士來台許可辦法同時馬英九基金會也跟主管機關有一個聲明的內容他也沒有確實來遵守那這個部分我們等他們回去之後我們會邀請相關的主管機關"},{"start":4771.319,"end":4773.861,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4800.819,"end":4802.36,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4830.383,"end":4831.223,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4859.72,"end":4871.308,"text":"主委好請教主委一下我們外配要拿台灣身份證要放棄沿國籍我們陸配拿台灣的身份證要放棄國籍嗎?依照我們兩條例陸配拿台灣的身份證只要放棄對岸的戶籍那當然要申請到我們的身份取得我們的戶籍"},{"start":4886.869,"end":4888.971,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4913.868,"end":4917.629,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":4942.574,"end":4969.12,"text":"原住民的委員會主委一定要是原住民代表才可以當主委,還有族群委員也是要原住民的身份才能當主委。這個主委知道嗎?我沒有這個資訊。沒有這個資訊,你不知道。我們客家人的委員會的主委是不是也是要客家人?是嗎?"},{"start":4972.062,"end":4987.086,"text":"一般慣例會請客家人、客家身份來當主委,這樣才直接服務自己族群。所以請教我們陸委會的主委,你是代表哪一個族群?"},{"start":4991.872,"end":5007.186,"text":"我想過去擔任陸委會主委並沒有特定的族群沒有特定的族群因為我不懂所以要問你問清楚因為我們的邏輯就是說哪一個族群就是哪一個代表才直接服務嗎"},{"start":5008.187,"end":5009.829,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5034.929,"end":5059.084,"text":"大陸還有港澳嘛,所以我們的工作人員有沒有就是代表的大陸還是港澳的人員來去協助做協調,有嗎?裡面的工作人員。我們當然作為台灣的公務人員,首先就不能有雙重國籍,一定要放棄中華民國以外的國籍,擔任公職一定是如此的。"},{"start":5060.646,"end":5063.851,"text":"所以我們外配都要去放棄國籍才能當公職人員或者公務人員但是我們陸配你沒有要求放棄國籍但是你說要求一定要放棄國籍才能考公務人員是這樣嗎?"},{"start":5077.362,"end":5078.384,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5092.025,"end":5094.966,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5117.512,"end":5126.911,"text":"那個住所幾幾名公務人員在那一邊因為我們有拍在住在我們的港澳那邊有幾個人"},{"start":5127.951,"end":5132.435,"text":"跟委員報告,我們現在在香港,我們的辦事處,並沒有我們的公務人員在那裡,都是當地的僱員。對,當地僱員有幾人?有42位。42位?對。但是我們看到就是只有兩位是正職,正職人員。那是在澳門辦事處?"},{"start":5151.351,"end":5152.712,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5180.29,"end":5189.096,"text":"款類還有就是編列高額的預算都沒有人還要編列這樣子的預算不是沒有人我們有40幾位僱員在那裡仍然在推動管務的正常運作包括我們的文書驗證那個數量搞不好是全球外管最多其中之一但是我們看到僅有兩位正職其他你說40幾位我們在你們的網站在你們的沒有40幾位當地的僱員"},{"start":5209.71,"end":5224.378,"text":"他們仍然在執行包括核發簽證、護照包括文書驗證、急難救助這些管務仍然在推動當中對,但是我們看到報告裡面沒有所以說你講的我們沒有看到"},{"start":5225.819,"end":5226.8,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5246.242,"end":5259.839,"text":"內容是一樣的就是內容的工作一樣的拍4人但是今年拍了11個人但是呢內容一樣工作量一樣內容一樣所以增加那麼多人是為什麼你是說在港澳還是澳門來出國的人數"},{"start":5268.573,"end":5270.196,"text":"出國的人數工作的內容是一樣的完全沒有變但是人數增加4個人現在增加了就是11個人所以工作內容差異在哪裡人數出國為什麼要增加"},{"start":5283.594,"end":5288.916,"text":"跟委員報告,因為過去在疫情,我們的同仁會去港澳我們住處進行各種業務考核,所以我們有安排這個。對啊,但是是去年啊,今年又沒有疫情,所以你這回答跟這個完全沒有關係。疫情去4個,沒有疫情去11個,這樣子差異在哪裡?"},{"start":5307.122,"end":5308.263,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5335.934,"end":5338.396,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5362.513,"end":5371.742,"text":"至於香港辦的相關的教育展,我們也有同仁去代表參加。對,但是我們看到的就是108、109的沒有,110年沒有,112年也沒有。所以呢,我們出國的情形、考察的情形的結果跟效果在哪裡,都沒有報告。"},{"start":5385.916,"end":5387.097,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5410.453,"end":5411.714,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5433.595,"end":5434.615,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5454.281,"end":5456.163,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5479.882,"end":5481.103,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5497.268,"end":5497.929,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5516.323,"end":5543.801,"text":"沒有增加,但是我們看到的案件減少。但是預算是增加的。麥委員你用的資料可能有點出入。我給你詳細的資料。去年度是暴增,前年度只有5萬5千件。去年度暴增到1萬件。那今年到現在11月還沒結束是8萬3千多件。所以從整個長年的趨勢上來看來,今年是增加的。"},{"start":5544.301,"end":5545.161,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5563.148,"end":5563.688,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5589.316,"end":5600.699,"text":"要有書面要有正確的明顯是改善明顯的是有達到我們要做的業務這樣我們才能接受謝謝接下來請劉許廷委員發言謝謝主席這個邱主委跟羅秘書長有請"},{"start":5616.479,"end":5620.363,"text":"主委、副董事長、副秘書長兩位早安我們今天要討論一下你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的跑位的狀況我先請教羅副董事長"},{"start":5633.755,"end":5637.58,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5649.618,"end":5654.702,"text":"我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。"},{"start":5665.43,"end":5668.112,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5691.411,"end":5700.797,"text":"在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?"},{"start":5703.188,"end":5706.649,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5725.057,"end":5741.489,"text":"就本席的了解按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠"},{"start":5743.11,"end":5745.852,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5762.126,"end":5763.046,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5782.461,"end":5786.763,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5811.541,"end":5833.169,"text":"龍平上有跟我講那其實他總的事前講還是我講事前事前就我講他總的來說他是希望啊希望中國大陸啊能夠務實面對兩岸關係能夠正視中華民國客觀事實存在這才是解決兩岸問題最主要的癥結之所在那也希望能夠良性互動"},{"start":5833.869,"end":5837.112,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5863.372,"end":5878.531,"text":"現在的政府跟社會做更詳細的說明說明為什麼這麼做、怎麼做、如何做這需要。第二個兩岸關係的突破我認為本會受陸委會之委託更積極主動掌握話語權避免掉入一個"},{"start":5879.352,"end":5880.673,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5906.856,"end":5909.159,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5928.539,"end":5929.939,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5944.884,"end":5946.184,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":5968.132,"end":5993.915,"text":"羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到很氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我有感受到這個民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講了不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走"},{"start":5994.415,"end":6023.355,"text":"你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。"},{"start":6024.96,"end":6027.082,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6050.39,"end":6062.968,"text":"健康、有序、對等尊嚴不能自我矮化找我們推動交流那目前為止看起來因為不管你講的是什麼基本上對方的回應好像都非常冷淡或者是不愉快你打算用什麼樣的方式來改變這樣的情況"},{"start":6064.46,"end":6068.283,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6091.261,"end":6116.745,"text":"記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員群要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒"},{"start":6117.145,"end":6136.79,"text":"今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人"},{"start":6137.33,"end":6138.13,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6163.479,"end":6167.56,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6191.548,"end":6192.349,"text":"接下來請王美惠委員"},{"start":6228.482,"end":6231.983,"text":"主席、主委、請主委。王維豪。主委、各位。主委,在這裡,我先幫你探討一下所有的解說和政策。因為我們總會,如果要來到台灣,要站在我們的新聞場。"},{"start":6251.001,"end":6254.082,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6281.482,"end":6283.243,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6303.215,"end":6308.62,"text":"對、對、對,這樣就要說清楚了。在這裡本身來說,因為有的人很認真、很努力,也有時候因為他們自己的不公有時候可以做我們政府單位的公職人員,他需要放棄他的國籍嗎?總配喔!總配喔!來,你解釋一下。謝謝委員,給我們這個機會。"},{"start":6334.352,"end":6361.362,"text":"我們陸委會這個兩條例21條你必須要住滿就成為我們的這個取得這個身份10年之後才能登記參選或者是擔任公職公務人員這是它的一個時間的條件但是你如果當選之後你還是要依照我們的國籍法20條的規定要放棄非中華民國"},{"start":6362.944,"end":6363.344,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6386.315,"end":6394.283,"text":"在公職領域的人對國家的謹慎謹略。所以我會去跟他去找公道,找當然保守立委。他是美國終身的教授。他為了要回來台灣擔任立法委員,他如果他終身美國,"},{"start":6410.779,"end":6412.18,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6431.886,"end":6433.827,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6445.816,"end":6450.159,"text":"因為我覺得這是一個問題,有的一年說實在的,如果你要買地、木、鉤,如果要買一個國家的木或鉤,一年算很久了。所以我們要最重要的注意,我是在這裡補充說,我們要聽好清楚,不要斷章取義說,總配要來台灣,要去新聞局,就一定要放棄。"},{"start":6473.934,"end":6477.957,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6503.118,"end":6504.019,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6523.831,"end":6524.812,"text":"大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6541.084,"end":6556.751,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6570.566,"end":6596.877,"text":"你聽起來你的感受是如何?來你回答一下我想陸團來發表對外發表這個說法是非常不當的那我們也會依這個大陸人士來台的許可辦法還有這個馬英九基金會給主管機關的相關書面申請切結的問題其中有一項非常清楚就是說"},{"start":6599.025,"end":6611.959,"text":"不去對外說跟活動無關的政治的言論與宣傳,那這個是不是違反了這個切結的標準?"},{"start":6614.261,"end":6627.045,"text":"我們也會跟所有的主管機關依照行政程序大家來討論來確認這個資訊我們也會做必要的行政作為跟行政處分所以委員這個事情我們也跟相關的邀請單位說明這個對台灣來說是絕大部分的國人沒辦法接受的"},{"start":6641.589,"end":6642.33,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6663.826,"end":6667.99,"text":"因為我覺得他來的時候要尊重你來到什麼地方,他說中國、台北的時候也不好,這是一個禮貌。還有我認為他是正經做過台灣的中華民國總統的時候的基金會,非常不應該是這樣。"},{"start":6687.29,"end":6692.212,"text":"包括基金會的人也必須要遵當你要執行這個專業交流你也要符合你所簽署的書面聲明之外還要符合入客來台的許可辦法這是規範你的所以你對外進行一些非必要的跟活動無關的政治宣傳是不宜的"},{"start":6714.359,"end":6715.88,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6743.161,"end":6745.443,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6770.901,"end":6776.466,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6797.759,"end":6817.17,"text":"邱主委、羅副董事長、密書長馬英九基金會在做什麼?馬英九基金會在做什麼?我來解讀一下蔡英文總統出訪的時候馬英九基金會在安排馬英九前總統去中國參訪對中國來講做國際媒體的平衡報導"},{"start":6826.091,"end":6845.431,"text":"現任總統去美國但是我們有卸任總統來中國參訪製造國際的錯覺馬英九基金會這一次在做什麼馬英九基金會這一次安排了這個交流團他要做什麼原來其實馬龍的球迷很多"},{"start":6847.338,"end":6856.605,"text":"大家也想要看馬龍但是全部的焦點就在馬英九基金會安排我確認一下這是不是安排的齁"},{"start":6858.205,"end":6884.502,"text":"這個學生的發言是不是馬雲酒基金會安排的?主委是根本原報告就我們初步了解他每天都會安排兩位學生對外這個安排那個媒體的聯訪所以基金會有安排每天兩位發言他沒有安排馬龍來講這句話他反而安排了一個比較不重要的人來講這句話但是"},{"start":6885.262,"end":6886.903,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6901.576,"end":6919.275,"text":"除了我們官方單位除了確認一下這個馬英九基金會他有做這個安排之外呢其實我們的學生非常自主的大家也覺醒所以這個交流團馬上被識破其實他就是糖衣毒藥"},{"start":6920.416,"end":6923.138,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6940.009,"end":6942.772,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6959.172,"end":6974.186,"text":"最等尊嚴的不但隱形。我想我們在事後相關主管機關都會收集相關的事證透過既有的這個行政程序再進一步來確認做一定的行政作為請委員放心我們會來"},{"start":6975.447,"end":6978.589,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":6998.958,"end":7000.299,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7017.301,"end":7030.456,"text":"我講我們經常跟金門的觀光業者都有互動那我們上個月也在照金門那我們是希望這樣金門大概經過五年的疫情他們因為他們的"},{"start":7032.738,"end":7035.743,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7048.74,"end":7075.053,"text":"突然一個宣布又沒了對不對對 因為中國大陸觀光業基本上是這個政策驅動的你就要配合政策來滿足它政策它不是一般市場驅動的觀光客我所謂市場驅動就是說跟你業者的努力跟消費者的選擇有關但是這個政策驅動完全是你要不要配合中共的政策所以它有風險我要舉一個活生生的例子"},{"start":7075.593,"end":7102.267,"text":"但是他已經很久已經快被淡忘了這在2009年的時候羅文嘉秘書長講過一句話看電影是我們自己的事當時高雄市政府新聞處主辦了一個電影節主辦單位有一個單位他放了一部電影居然踩中了中國的紅線但是我們放電影是我們自己事看電影也是我們自己的事當年高雄市發生什麼事情"},{"start":7103.311,"end":7125.615,"text":"高雄市主辦新聞處的處長被國民黨的議長要求下台。第二個,中國發出什麼事情?中國發出所有中國來台灣的旅行團禁止住在高雄的旅館。這個也是另外一個糖衣毒藥。來,秘書長你記得這件事情嗎?"},{"start":7126.523,"end":7153.116,"text":"謝謝委員提起,我相信確實有這件事情當時應該是納比亞的電影對於中國共產黨來講這部電影是他不能接受的所以他要求即使在管轄之外在中華民國國土領土範圍內在高雄市他也想要干預那當然我們不會被接受我們不會接受那不會接受最後結果就是他停止了所有的這個該次的活動而且"},{"start":7154.028,"end":7177.238,"text":"他禁止那段時間禁止所有的陸客團住宿高雄所以整個高雄的旅宿業當時已經習慣了這些陸客的住宿那就覺得說開始在覺得說那你市政府為什麼要辦這個活動影響我們的生意但是你過了這麼久你再回頭想想看電影是我們自己的事啊為什麼他要管我們看電影"},{"start":7178.078,"end":7178.899,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7199.276,"end":7218.97,"text":"我曾經在內政部來這邊備詢的時候我也提出來包含剛剛其他委員也有講的國籍法的問題那我想請主委我只講一個陸配來台取得身份證放棄戶籍就可以了但是陸配要放棄國籍是有困難的對不對"},{"start":7221.477,"end":7249.591,"text":"我覺得他要努力放棄看看因為中共的國籍法第4條也有一些放棄的事由要去努力放棄要去努力放棄要去努力放棄看看但是沈和全還是在中國有一天如果你中華民國的立法委員聲稱你已經放棄中國國籍但是中國隔天可以宣布你還是中國公民可不可以這樣"},{"start":7251.78,"end":7254.381,"text":"接下來請張志倫委員張志倫委員質詢完我們休息五分鐘讓行政單位用個洗手間"},{"start":7290.538,"end":7293.911,"text":"謝謝主席,各位委員各位官員大家早有請邱主委"},{"start":7301.09,"end":7324.204,"text":"張委員你好好 謝謝邱主委今天是這個陸委會的有關於114年度預算的這個質詢跟今天可能質詢的問題那本席想要先請教我們邱主委於今年陸委會於今年的6月1號發布了這個我們臺灣的旅客到大陸的進團令以及6月27號發布大陸的這個大陸的民眾到"},{"start":7330.228,"end":7343.929,"text":"大陸旅遊的這個陳設警戒那現在我覺得人民現在我要幫所有的這個全台觀光業、旅遊業來請命了這個禁團令到底什麼時候會取消它的要件為何"},{"start":7345.25,"end":7353.278,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7369.613,"end":7382.738,"text":"還沒有真正的對台灣開放團客那他其中一個藉口說我們團客去中國大陸還有限制就是你所謂的禁團令但是我要跟委員報告我們在"},{"start":7385.868,"end":7404.984,"text":"如果中共在520之後沒有對台軍演也沒有懲毒22條的話我們早就沒有所謂的這個所謂的進團令光刻早就過去了特別是我們現在我們現在政策我們是願意跟中國大陸進行這個"},{"start":7408.749,"end":7411.851,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7435.484,"end":7449.376,"text":"到大陸的一些限制。審讀22條。審讀22條。這樣的兩個東西都開放以後才會來正式解除禁團令嗎?不是這個。北京要問你的意見是什麼時候才能解除禁團令的要件為何?我們"},{"start":7450.997,"end":7469.261,"text":"剛剛除了我們追求健康有序的兩岸交流兩岸觀光旅遊交流之後我們還有一個我們對於國人賦入的安全我們最關心的是國人的安全所以安全就是因為審讀22條所以大陸要放棄審讀22條才會開放禁團令嗎?台灣的禁團令嗎?我們在確定它對國人賦入安全有沒有影響特別是審讀22條我跟委員報告"},{"start":7480.323,"end":7482.085,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7509.147,"end":7510.867,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7528.543,"end":7529.564,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7541.81,"end":7560.486,"text":"從3月到10月底有16.9萬人團客出團如果加上11月份的話我相信已經20萬團客到大陸去了所以主委的意思是說現在還有在這個當時6月1號進團令之後的旅遊團因為還沒有出團的目前還有在出團的情況"},{"start":7561.187,"end":7563.149,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7582.824,"end":7584.325,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7608.107,"end":7633.214,"text":"要去討論說未來要如何讓大陸這邊可以開放陸生來台跟委員報告我們一直呼籲中國大陸2020年4月份他們就不讓學位生來那現在來台灣的這個陸生的結構學位生現有學位生越來越少剩下1000多人那麼如果說現在比較多的是研修生大概今年1到10月還有2108位"},{"start":7635.054,"end":7638.797,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7656.329,"end":7683.021,"text":"中國大陸學生來臺灣留學而且我們也接到許多中國大陸的家長他們希望到臺灣留學但是中國大陸他對於他的國人境外就是嚴格管控所以他們還不能來我們也呼籲他應該讓兩岸的年輕人像我們剛剛今天早上討論到兩岸青年交流很重要最主要是學生交流學生交流應該讓他自由自在自主自然的交流其實入生來臺"},{"start":7685.942,"end":7686.503,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7704.165,"end":7706.628,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7727.208,"end":7744.817,"text":"請主委來解釋,登錄的重點是有利於國人遇到緊急事情的時候政府能夠及時聯絡緊急聯絡人提供必要協助是嗎?是,跟委員報告,我們對國人賦入感目前還有風險的情況下,那國人透過這個登錄系統"},{"start":7746.138,"end":7746.818,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7772.683,"end":7801.081,"text":"要求這個民眾來登錄的一個狀況那當時也被人家說這是違反各自竊取的一個問題那我想要請問現在還有這樣的狀況嗎?我們對外的這個宣導啊盡量不要去打擾民眾而且用說理的不要給人家干擾好 謝謝對於各自的部分我們跟所有的國人保證這沒有各自的問題而且我們最近也成立了一個風險的一個諮詢專線有各自的問題也可以跟我們講登錄不順也可以跟我們講"},{"start":7801.641,"end":7823.657,"text":"好那接下來我要請教主委的齁剛剛有提到齁台灣呃台灣國人齁現在去大陸旅遊大概到目前今年為止大概230多萬人有去大陸嗎?一到十月一到十月嘛那我想要請教現在登錄系統齁我們可以看到登錄系統這樣的資料齁我們登錄的資料113年目前登錄的資料只有幾萬人欸"},{"start":7824.938,"end":7847.675,"text":"那是不是這個登錄系統完全沒有發揮它的作用只有幾萬人登錄兩百多萬人去大陸旅遊可是只有不到兩萬人登錄這樣的系統然後要花人民納稅錢這個六七百萬來建設這樣的系統會不會認為有浪費國家預算的問題那我再請教另外一個問題第一個登錄人數比較少那我想要請教就是說"},{"start":7848.456,"end":7873.677,"text":"因為花了人民納稅錢大概六、七百萬因為登錄這個系統而實際緊急處理的人數違和大概多少人?這個我先跟委員回答就是說我們在以今年跟去年的話我們今年登錄的人數已經是去年的14倍我們港澳的部分有6倍是增加很多但是我們國人在評估它的風險"},{"start":7874.958,"end":7877.1,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7895.287,"end":7900.848,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7919.813,"end":7921.954,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7940.385,"end":7942.287,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7958.425,"end":7959.766,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":7976.241,"end":7978.562,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8002.208,"end":8004.85,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8027.028,"end":8029.79,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8055.297,"end":8082.45,"text":"復照號碼復照號碼我全部都填了而且這個系統連提供到我們國人要到哪裡附入哪裡的地址也不是必要填寫資訊那這個資訊你要如何去救助需要救助的國人報告委員因為國人不見得希望提供這麼詳細資料那他只要線上系統現在是線上系統他告訴我們是要緊急聯絡人而不是說一定要到大陸的哪一個城市住在哪一個地方"},{"start":8082.87,"end":8107.732,"text":"好,所以本席是拜託這個主委,主委非常辛苦,在你們在做事情的時候,要用人民大稅錢的時候,已經兩年的系統了,結果救助的人是零,而且沒有這個資訊,沒有防呆的人。謝謝委員執政,我們會不斷的把它優化。那到底裡面有多少的錯誤的資訊,所以我跟你講這個答案是零也不意外,因為根本就沒有,這個系統的功能基本上就是零。"},{"start":8108.713,"end":8111.314,"text":"應該是有很多了,謝謝委員,我們再跟委員私下說明。"},{"start":8166.347,"end":8179.527,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8212.317,"end":8236.169,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8238.165,"end":8240.906,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8263.061,"end":8281.436,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人"},{"start":8303.764,"end":8309.793,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財"},{"start":8328.004,"end":8350.89,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8363.479,"end":8365.9,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8411.061,"end":8411.182,"text":"函送財"},{"start":8446.594,"end":8447.604,"text":"審查大陸委員會"},{"start":8492.773,"end":8521.579,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8537.995,"end":8564.238,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政委員會函送財政"},{"start":8586.069,"end":8586.649,"text":"現在繼續開會接下來請黃婕委員發言"},{"start":8596.499,"end":8600.129,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請陸委會主委好請邱主委"},{"start":8604.421,"end":8633.68,"text":"黃委員好邱主委好先跟你請教因為大家知道說其實中國最近對於宗教的打壓是越來越嚴重那今天早上也出現一個新聞說有三位來自台灣的一貫道的教徒到中國去那結果被關押了到現在還沒有放出來那我知道說這件事情其實海基會也進入處理了那當然這個細節的處理我們希望說最後都是圓滿的結果但我想要請教的是其實現在還是很多國人"},{"start":8633.82,"end":8640.444,"text":"兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財兩、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8663.596,"end":8689.012,"text":"包括說今年一到九月國人赴中港澳的人次是331萬人跟去年同期比起來增加了77%去年同期是187萬人也就是說即便你們很努力的想要告訴大家說去中國有非常多的未知的風險不管是他們政治的變化還是這些他們對於各種宗教、文化的打壓但是國人還是"},{"start":8690.373,"end":8716.102,"text":"在無預警的情況下這樣子到中國去旅遊那這個部分我們陸委會還可以做什麼呢我在這邊具體請教建議兩件事情第一個這個國人赴中港澳的動態的登錄系統目前看起來登錄的比例實在是太低了是不是應該要有更強制或者是更明確一點的做法來提高國人去中港澳他們應該都要來先來登錄這樣的系統呢第二個"},{"start":8719.483,"end":8746.501,"text":"是不是可以具體的來要求我們旅遊業者來配合?配合什麼?就是你過海關出境之前你都必須要手上要拿到這個警示的小卡或者是說你在訂飯店、訂機票的當下就會看到這個旅遊警示告訴你說赴中國就是有這些風險啊你去你只是參加宗教活動你參加文化活動、參加學術活動就是有可能隨時被關啊"},{"start":8747.942,"end":8763.069,"text":"這些警示難道不應該讓國人知道嗎?是。我分兩個部分來回答委員的問題。第一個是風險。確實現負入港澳的風險極高。除了中國大陸不斷的出台相當多的國家安全的"},{"start":8763.809,"end":8764.81,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8788.467,"end":8789.788,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8809.161,"end":8813.083,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8838.636,"end":8839.236,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8859.847,"end":8860.588,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8885.371,"end":8889.453,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8912.304,"end":8914.365,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8940.435,"end":8941.597,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8956.476,"end":8958.477,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":8986.445,"end":8987.285,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9015.237,"end":9015.858,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9034.179,"end":9036.16,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9058.361,"end":9070.792,"text":"請主委、陸委會真的要強硬起來處理,此例一開,未來就是有如此多的統戰團可能來到台灣繼續做這種矮化我國、喪權入國的行為。是,我們依法依規來處理。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,請蘇巧慧委員。"},{"start":9087.332,"end":9090.435,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們請邱主委。好,請邱主委。主委你好。主委你好。主委,我們常常說民主、法治、自由、人權是我們應該要守護的基本價值。是。你認為這四個價值有沒有先後順序之分?我覺得都很重要。都很重要。我也都很重要。都很重要。有沒有先後順序之分?在你的認知裡面。"},{"start":9115.516,"end":9140.815,"text":"如果我的話因為我是12月10號出生的世界人權日所以我對人權我是放在第一位主委我跟你分享我的看法我認為民主法治自由人權其實是有層次之分的因為如果你沒有民主和法治作為基礎作為一個國家的框架作為我們民主國家的一個基盤那基盤都不穩固了"},{"start":9143.177,"end":9171.064,"text":"何來談人權、自由甚至是多元呢?所以民主跟法治一定是要優先被守護住穩固住作為國家的基盤、國家的框架這才有辦法繼續守護後面的人權、自由甚至是多元價值昨天晚上南韓用了3點8個小時為我們示範了民主法治是多麼困難守護的一件工程所以台灣其實是經歷了"},{"start":9173.084,"end":9196.963,"text":"三十八年這樣戒嚴的時候尤其主委你剛剛也說下個禮拜就是人權紀念日其實也是美麗島事件的紀念日啊台灣的民主是經歷了多少人的犧牲多少家庭的破碎才走到今天這樣子的地方所以我想在任何的國家其實都有親外勢力"},{"start":9197.623,"end":9198.544,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9215.606,"end":9217.288,"text":"所以如果你也同意這樣的論點之後那我們再來看接下來我們今天要討論的馬英九基金會的事件我覺得就很清楚了既然我們應該要守的是民主法治"},{"start":9230.523,"end":9231.923,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9252.65,"end":9263.841,"text":"這樣一個包裝教育文化交流的包裝正在破壞台灣的民主法制可是偏偏有人說台灣是一個有言論自由的空間我們應該要尊重別人講話的自由要尊重他的習慣用語主委我想請你就這一次馬英九基金會所邀請的中國青年團在台灣的土地上說出了"},{"start":9277.634,"end":9278.335,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9296.954,"end":9297.315,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9314.717,"end":9317.34,"text":"我們認為以及他後續的發言都有可能違反他當初所這個切結的相關的書面資料以及也違反我們現有的這個大陸人士來台的許可辦法"},{"start":9331.333,"end":9339.058,"text":"所以按照這個違反我們相關的這個違規違常的事件,我們都會邀請相關單位儘速作出處置,是不是這樣?就是你剛剛回答的七位委員都是這樣講的嘛,對不對?那我就想請問你,第一,你現在說的這個竊結書的效力有沒有包含邀請單位?"},{"start":9353.286,"end":9357.91,"text":"包括邀請單位包括邀請單位我們在這裡明確的做出答覆包括邀請單位除了邀請大陸團之外邀請單位也要遵守也必須遵守邀請單位也不能做出政治的談話相關的談話對不對所以這是第一個即便我們認為他中國台北是他的習慣用語但你邀請單位也不能做出政治談話蕭旭哲談話算不算是政治談話我想也明確談話我們的規範的內容"},{"start":9380.728,"end":9381.889,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9406.107,"end":9407.868,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9429.52,"end":9430.401,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9450.862,"end":9451.282,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9472.533,"end":9481.403,"text":"內政部的聯審會就是我們剛剛講的幾個主管機關一起坐下來我告訴你因為你反映的速度所以他現在說如果我們有違反規定今天不會站在這裡兩岸的用語不同他並沒有發表什麼要統一的言論台灣社會是有包容有雅量的不要跟一個二次的等於身體一笑"},{"start":9491.753,"end":9495.154,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9518.803,"end":9520.404,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9538.641,"end":9553.668,"text":"主委我們還是要請基金會的相關人士跟我們的切結書有明確說不去對外講跟活動無關的政治性言論及宣傳我認為你今天就應該要召開會議了這個事實已經這麼明確了這已經不是盡快兩個字可以處理今天就應該要召集會議如果昨天還是女學生的言論"},{"start":9565.874,"end":9567.535,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9589.025,"end":9595.628,"text":"因為台灣是民主法治的社會回到我剛剛說的第一點我們就是應該要堅守民主法治才有後面的人權自由和多元我想我們講四個堅持就是堅持自由民主的憲政秩序是但是你不能行政效率讓人家看破手腳啊對不對所以我要求你主委你可不可以承諾今天就應該要召開"},{"start":9615.995,"end":9628.925,"text":"我們會先聯繫相關的主管機關,持續收證,然後趕快再召開。不會,我知道行政有行政的作業程序,你的態度呢?你認不認為今天就應該要召開會議?是,我覺得應該要趕快。你會用在這裡承諾,你要用最快速的今天就開始啟動召集會議,這樣的承諾做不到嗎?可以吧?可以吧?我們就往這個方向來處理。"},{"start":9641.294,"end":9649.456,"text":"好 謝謝主委全台灣都在看你怎麼為這件事情這類的事情留下範例未來的中國同胞我們歡迎中國人民啦中國人民我們歡迎他來這裡可以啊 同友的同胞可以啊但你來這裡你要知道台灣是一個主權獨立的國家我們有我們的民主法治制度我們需要立委會要能夠表示這種態度謝謝主委謝謝委員"},{"start":9673.849,"end":9674.449,"text":"徐宇貞委員發言請邱主委"},{"start":9694.301,"end":9719.262,"text":"許文豪邱主委好我想剛剛有幾位民進黨的委員都特別提到這個馬英九基金會邀請陸生來台的這個相關的事件我想當時這位這個陸生團的大學生提到說要向中國臺北隊在世界十二強賽中奪冠表示祝賀並稱希望大陸和臺灣同胞能一起為祖國在棒球領域一起努力"},{"start":9719.922,"end":9720.503,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9737.033,"end":9755.068,"text":"剛馬龍也講過臺灣隊我們都大部分的國人也認為這個我們的棒球是臺灣隊頂多你說到中華臺北那你講到有矮化的這個中國臺北這是中國慣用矮化我們的用詞"},{"start":9756.109,"end":9759.071,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9776.46,"end":9782.983,"text":"基金會安排媒體但媒體要問什麼請問一下基金會會知道嗎就像媒體要問我們平常的問題請問一下陸委會有辦法叫它不要問嗎"},{"start":9788.044,"end":9810.265,"text":"請問媒體會要你這樣子嗎?我跟委員報告,據瞭解基金會每天都有安排。對,我的意思是說媒體要問什麼問題,請問你陸委會可以做到,要求媒體問什麼問題嗎?對,是基金會要切捷,他有跟我們切捷。不是,我的意思是說,如果今天媒體,不管平常對你陸委會的提問,你可以要求他你要問什麼不能問什麼嗎?"},{"start":9812.467,"end":9813.448,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9833.277,"end":9835.759,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9857.854,"end":9873.672,"text":"對一個媒體主動詢問大學生的一個回應他站在他的國家的角度來看這件事情就像我們大學生站在我們國家的角度來看這件事情事實上我不曉得這個陸委會覺得不妥到底不妥在哪裡而且剛剛已經講過了這是媒體"},{"start":9875.894,"end":9876.775,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9901.745,"end":9914.362,"text":"委員是這樣我們對這個團因為他持續要安排媒體採訪我們有跟他告誡有哪些話會引起台灣內部社會的對立所以我剛剛有跟主委一樣就是說"},{"start":9916.465,"end":9917.946,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9937.719,"end":9939.64,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":9961.612,"end":9977.683,"text":"兩岸這幾天的交流可以看得出來大家彼此都非常的珍惜這次能夠來台灣交流的機會。包括我們台灣大學生也認為跟陸生交流是非常好的一個經驗。所以說這個部分的話我覺得應該要多多鼓勵而不是當一個粗毛求疵。我覺得該用這樣子的一個粗毛求疵不能拿少數一兩個人的評論"},{"start":9985.087,"end":9985.588,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10002.802,"end":10030.951,"text":"我覺得如果我們真的要堆疊兩岸的聲音希望兩岸能夠和平的交流這個部分我覺得陸委會不可以有既定的立場也不會因為執政黨給的壓力而你們就做出一個不符合真正大家是我們的全民所期待的一個方式如果真的希望兩岸的和諧的話不該說真的一方面要去挑釁人家一方面要說這個人家他們來到台灣的時候我們還用這樣的一個方式"},{"start":10032.455,"end":10057.614,"text":"希望我們主委能夠為兩岸交流能夠多盡一份努力另外再請教一下主委我們最近馬英九基金會邀請的陸生團來台的時候我們可以看到剛剛你也回答到陸生來台的研修生跟學衛生你可以看一下表目前研修生的人數大量的下滑那學衛生其實也是一樣"},{"start":10058.434,"end":10086.525,"text":"那請問一下我看到您剛剛的報告裡面有講說我們要這個增加讓陸生跟台生來台陸生來台的這個研修的一個計畫那教育部現在也在研擬中那請問一下針對陸生來台那目前陸委會跟大陸溝通情況如何跟委員報告我們就我們的政策我們一向歡迎陸生來台就讀不管是學位生還是研修生"},{"start":10087.705,"end":10111.299,"text":"那中國大陸當然從2020年4月就以疫情跟政治的理由就不讓他學衛生來已經四年了所以學衛生的數字一直在下降那現在大概只剩下1000多人反而是研修生比較多既然賴總統已經有講了希望能夠這個大陸的陸生來台就學那請問一下目前你們跟大陸溝通的狀況如何"},{"start":10112.86,"end":10136.516,"text":"我們教育部主管機關有不斷的透過陸聯會跟對岸不斷的去溝通,對岸是還沒有回應,所以最主要的我們還是要呼籲,如果要真正做到剛剛所說的年輕人的交流,最好的就是學生交流,"},{"start":10137.116,"end":10138.137,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10158.576,"end":10177.672,"text":"講一句話就有可能被扣上這樣的大帽子那你說陸生怎麼來談所以我覺得兩岸要真的要堆疊生意我覺得在這方面必須要約束我覺得要約束我們這個執政黨的這些這些不管是委員、小編一直用這樣的一個方式去抹黑我覺得這也不是辦法那另外想請教一下你陸委會有評估過陸生減少對台灣整體教育環境跟地方經濟的衝擊嗎"},{"start":10186.094,"end":10209.216,"text":"因為以我舉例雲林環球科技大學本來有很多陸生來台的可是這幾年因為陸生沒有來台之後這個環球科大現在也已經這個停止招生了很多學校其實都面臨這樣的一個問題那我們既然覺得陸生來台就學可以這個兩岸交流可以讓我們的學生台生陸生都有很好的這樣子的一個溝通的一個管道那為什麼這個部分"},{"start":10210.057,"end":10212.619,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10239.518,"end":10242.879,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10256.244,"end":10258.905,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10281.512,"end":10297.718,"text":"海基會114年度的預算針對協處台商人身安全與兩岸經貿糾紛的費用編列了135萬,跟去年是一樣。針對兩岸人身安全與急難救助相關的業務編列99萬6千,比去年多了40萬。"},{"start":10299.512,"end":10315.888,"text":"我們當然可以接受增加40萬的經費支出但是今年陸委會捐助給海基會補助給海基會的預算增加了7521萬那針對台商、台生的急難救助卻兩邊加起來增加40萬"},{"start":10317.429,"end":10323.473,"text":"而其他的溝通管道幾乎都停滯。是不是反映陸委會跟海基會在經費的配置上出現問題了?跟委員報告我們就我們在中國大陸採商勤勞救助的部分如果因為我們是按照去年的額度我們陸委會補助了120萬加上"},{"start":10336.701,"end":10340.303,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算書案。三、審查大陸委員會函送財中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10355.589,"end":10357.471,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10376.645,"end":10377.988,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10392.776,"end":10393.957,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10410.306,"end":10412.709,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10425.845,"end":10426.785,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會函送財"},{"start":10456.578,"end":10459.822,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10478.183,"end":10479.424,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10496.644,"end":10512.443,"text":"大概要多久的時間才能完成優化?現在就很優化了,而且現在還有專人服務,是,是,我想我們這個馬上可以來注意,所以我覺得這有很大的問題,那剛剛也特別講到吉南救助非常多件,這個加起來這樣應該算是8000多件嗎?"},{"start":10514.825,"end":10515.325,"text":"接下來請黃建斌委員"},{"start":10554.417,"end":10555.098,"text":"邀請邱主委"},{"start":10562.765,"end":10587.347,"text":"黃委員好 主委好 這裡剛剛聽到很多 我想很多衝突都來自於對彼此的不了解那我想事實的 總是事情在不斷的溝通的過程裡面會讓我們更加進那一步所以台灣愛有主心 我相信台灣有很多是大陸學生也很羨慕的制度好 那主委我想先跟你請教 像"},{"start":10588.248,"end":10614.709,"text":"所以我們昨晚經歷了這個首爾驚心動魄6小時我想不只韓國民眾連台灣的民眾都很關注因為區域的情勢是牽一把棟全身那剛好在這個時候我們的總統跟外交部長都不在國內我想請教主委你有沒有及時掌握相關區域的情勢動態跟總統做回報然後以及我們總統有沒有做任何的指示"},{"start":10616.638,"end":10635.509,"text":"跟委員報告我們事情發生我想所有國安團隊都非常密注相關情勢的發展也做好各種應變的準備我覺得我們的國安團隊對各種的危機狀況都有很好的處理"},{"start":10636.73,"end":10659.219,"text":"本席這邊要再提醒因為區域情勢動盪的時候我們政府一定要及時的掌握正確的情資而且要適時的跟人民報告穩定民心的安定接下來本席就要就陸委會海基會的業務報告還有審查預算來請教主委請教主委目前在我們賴清德總統的執政底下"},{"start":10659.719,"end":10685.79,"text":"我們政府的陸委會跟海基會最主要的核心業務還有分工是什麼?請主委簡單的回答。是,我們陸委會就是就兩岸政策上的研議的實施,我們層上起下協調各部會,層上當然我們有行政院還有國安會,乃至於對總統負責,那協調各部會,因為陸委會的人少,我們相關的主管機關,"},{"start":10686.69,"end":10688.312,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10706.15,"end":10725.851,"text":"如果說兩岸情勢可行的話政府還要委託海基會赴中國大陸或是跟中國大陸人士?簡單來說我們陸委會就是針對大陸政策的規劃跟執行嘛那海基會是主要是以半官方就是類似我們民間團體的性質來進行兩岸的交流嘛對不對"},{"start":10727.032,"end":10728.913,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10750.39,"end":10760.217,"text":"我想在114年的預算裡面我們可以看到我們陸委會捐助海基會辦理兩岸仲介事務經費是2億5957萬那我們相較於113年度是1億8435萬增加了7521萬增加幅度高達四成"},{"start":10771.923,"end":10799.686,"text":"那根據海基會的說明吼,我們主要是要把你這個補助是,第一個是補助為了要改善我們的財政,財務的結構。對,政府補助案增加,從57%調到70%,所以實際上海基會的預算是增加4000多萬,不是7000多萬。那另外還有包括我們人事費嘛,然後擴大辦理、台商、子女、夏令營,然後增加大陸政經社會情勢掌握。對,是的。"},{"start":10800.467,"end":10801.528,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10817.188,"end":10841.924,"text":"提醒我們海基會的全名叫做財團法人海峽交流基金會交流的工作絕對是海基會的重中之重但是我們從目前海基會看到的一些作為跟陸委會好像都差不多本席這邊要提出兩點我想要請陸委會跟海基會要負起責任因為作為大陸政策還有兩岸交流的單位"},{"start":10842.825,"end":10844.926,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10867.339,"end":10869.8,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10882.711,"end":10884.392,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10903.402,"end":10904.963,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10928.756,"end":10948.439,"text":"委員提到這兩個是第一個觀光客有關觀光客我們在去年其實我們就已經開放入客來台觀光只要提出申請旅行者提出申請經過我們審查就可以落實但是截至目前為止中國大陸還沒有把觀光客放到台灣來"},{"start":10949.761,"end":10961.738,"text":"雖然我們現在兩岸的交流我們去大陸剛剛委員提到我們已經去了230萬那他才來32萬那個比重是我們去多他來多少我們去7.2他才來1所以已經蠻這個"},{"start":10965.963,"end":10967.984,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":10993.917,"end":10994.958,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11023.298,"end":11026.039,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11041.784,"end":11043.705,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11058.889,"end":11060.371,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11076.852,"end":11079.254,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11093.306,"end":11121.347,"text":"作物的成長不會因為兩岸交流停滯而停滯,它會繼續的成長。那農民的生活也要必須前進。這點我真的要拜託注意了。我想最後本席還是要深入提醒我們陸委會跟海基會,我們兩個單位最主要的工作就是要促進兩岸的交流,不管是在產業、經濟任何相關的方面。那我們也明白在現在賴清德總統執政的情況下很多事情,"},{"start":11122.268,"end":11126.132,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11146.232,"end":11155.037,"text":"跟委員報告,總統也宣示對等尊嚴、健康有序的交流對話,承諾不變。我們會來努力。謝謝主委、謝謝委員。好,接下來請賴氏寶委員。謝謝主席及各位先進。"},{"start":11170.342,"end":11184.98,"text":"首先我想請那個海基會的吳董事長跟我們的秘書長好不好,吳董事長坐了一半天,給你點檔一下。好,請吳董事長,羅副董事長兼秘書長。吳董事長"},{"start":11191.049,"end":11218.097,"text":"這個你接董事長其實外界期待了一律過去的經驗經歷了當過國代代表當過監察委員而且是媒體界的大佬什麼風風浪浪沒有見過什麼都見過啊那今天老實講我是很遺憾我沒有辦法接受你接了董事長一個月你說你熟悉度不如羅文嘉"},{"start":11220.02,"end":11233.943,"text":"所以請他來全年代理這個話我不接受的主席太客氣了再接受我不接受洪森漢被任命勞動部長不到一個禮拜今天來了他還可以說我不熟啊我找次長來啊敢不可以這樣董事長你敢不想要兩案我還就對你期待那麼高結果第一跑你讓我失望你要不要對我這個話回應一下"},{"start":11247.527,"end":11273.769,"text":"這個我不曉得我剛才還請求主席啊說由秘書長做業務報告的時候你在不在場我在那裡看電視我講兩個理由我知道你說你比較不熟啊他來了幾個月你現在有回應的嗎好你回應請我說第一個理由啊是因為他比我早5個月到是嗎你就講這個理由第二個理由啊是因為這個海基會章程規定內部的事務由秘書長綜餘"},{"start":11276.226,"end":11276.907,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11302.007,"end":11307.55,"text":"來這裡我們都問大事比如說來來來我們請請請問請問你啊這個送給大陸梅花路有沒有跟你報告事先跟內委員報告有我們事先知情"},{"start":11324.053,"end":11325.334,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11339.994,"end":11357.44,"text":"表面上他最小,因為海基會接受陸委會的委託,陸委會最大。他出過來海基會董事長、陸委會秘書長,結果發現倒過來,輪家最大,輪家的關係踏實了。報告委員我們沒有大小之分,我們只有分工合作而已。我的感覺就有大小啊。"},{"start":11358.78,"end":11360.881,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11378.203,"end":11379.704,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11403.084,"end":11404.426,"text":"開拓新的局我覺得不好事事都交給秘書長可能董事長也要展現出你的一些作為一個月不能講短"},{"start":11416.636,"end":11417.797,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11446.224,"end":11448.165,"text":"五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11474.15,"end":11476.652,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11491.773,"end":11515.536,"text":"幫委員,如果要作出這樣的處分,我們也要來自於我們的相關主管機關,包括教育部,他要提出來。會有這樣的決定嗎?不,我們還是有一定的程序,因為畢竟他還是,我們也沒有馬上來處理,因為他是學生,而且基金會有一些說明,但是我們有鄭重的"},{"start":11516.377,"end":11520.378,"text":"警告他基金有這麼嚴重今天是學生講今天如果是團長講不一樣如果今天團長講我完全支持你的做法今天不是團長欸他是一個小女生來來來我讓你讓你知道一下齁來一個我這裡講啊一個潛意識台配啊兩岸各自表述啊好像九二共識一中各表欸那個那個龍恩家秘書長可以起來喔這個"},{"start":11549.42,"end":11553.201,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11576.738,"end":11578.34,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11591.26,"end":11615.008,"text":"但是所以我們叫全日台北我們就中華台北但是大陸原來也用中華台北但是2017年以後大陸的政府以及媒體全面的把中華台北改成中國台北我方不接受但是他們用語啊這個小女生現在20出頭歲2017年7年前她可能讀過中歐"},{"start":11620.506,"end":11621.667,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11634.428,"end":11635.749,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11653.683,"end":11655.846,"text":"我們政府官員現在在位子上有處長、有署長、有科長打電話來給我們辦公室問我們馬龍的行程在哪裡,他買那個…"},{"start":11666.991,"end":11668.191,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11687.739,"end":11690.943,"text":"他們就是講中國台北所以對他們是這樣講那一個女生這樣講有這麼嚴重嗎今天他不是團長他在團裡面沒有任何的職位他就是one of the participant"},{"start":11703.038,"end":11704.98,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11719.011,"end":11745.645,"text":"所以當然我們對他的所說的話確實已經引發傷害臺灣人民情感了而且我們臺灣內部有很多不同立場發生了很多對立這個都不是我們從事兩岸交流願意看到的那這也相關已經違反了我們許可辦法還有我們基金會自己切結的一些內容所以我們會做行政調查那你們要把他趕走嗎"},{"start":11747.486,"end":11748.427,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11769.381,"end":11770.862,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11797.933,"end":11799.155,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11813.922,"end":11816.684,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11830.712,"end":11833.814,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11859.594,"end":11861.535,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11884.246,"end":11884.987,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11904.119,"end":11907.062,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11922.139,"end":11922.819,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11944.011,"end":11945.452,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11958.379,"end":11961.56,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":11988.461,"end":12007.015,"text":"沒有中華民國基本上就沒有我們現在存在的基礎所以這點是我們共同沒有中華民國就沒有九二共識從來沒有真的有九二共識這是被創造出來而且要造成會矮化我們中華民國消失的危險不會會危險啊沒有中華民國就沒有兩岸對話的基礎可以這樣講嗎?諸位可以嗎?"},{"start":12015.814,"end":12034.283,"text":"我想最主要的癥結的問題就在北京當局不肯正視中華民國客觀事實存在所以他要來正視中華民國客觀事實存在這是最根本的問題沒有正視中華民國的存在就沒有兩岸對話交流的基礎可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":12035.564,"end":12035.904,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12055.043,"end":12056.083,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12085.154,"end":12086.115,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12111.134,"end":12116.278,"text":"好,謝謝賴氏保委的質詢,也謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長還有龍主長。那接下來我們請徐昭瑋質詢。謝謝主席,本席有請邱主委、吳董事長。邱主委跟吳董事長。"},{"start":12136.058,"end":12163.601,"text":"徐委員好吳董事長因為董事長說政策是他嘛大方向那沒關係秘書長如果要從旁協助本席也不反對好本席首先想請問邱主委是請問昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴6小時後又很快的解嚴了您知道這個消息嗎"},{"start":12164.541,"end":12166.262,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12187.757,"end":12207.024,"text":"成為破壞自由民主制度的點點點。最後親愛的公民們,我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅,立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥清朝反國家勢力等等。"},{"start":12208.064,"end":12224.036,"text":"本席想請教您,這種說法,我相信你們都有看新聞,所以我剛唸只是提示一下,我相信你了解他宣布戒嚴的理由。我想請教這種說法,會不會有一天成為台灣宣布戒嚴的理由?您認為?"},{"start":12225.117,"end":12245.119,"text":"我想不可能因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統都堅持自由民主的憲政體制所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由沒錯所以我們要共同宣誓"},{"start":12245.68,"end":12266.193,"text":"台灣民主法制得知不易,所以我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說,昨天發生的當時,您知道嗎?執政黨的Thread上面有一些言論,今天早上又撤下了。您應該知道吧?也就是說我們的鄰居,韓國發生了動盪。"},{"start":12270.589,"end":12272.77,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12295.917,"end":12299.379,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12321.616,"end":12324.517,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12350.413,"end":12378.489,"text":"入委會跟海基會存在的目的按照入委會的這個你的施政你的預算書裡面有講我們入委會的施政目標跟海基會也都有提到要依賴總統的政策理念以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵追求兩岸的共存共榮您認同吧這是你們寫的認同或不認同就可以了當然認同"},{"start":12379.93,"end":12389.979,"text":"我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗,你們是以放話,你們不斷的挑釁對岸,不斷的放話,還有限制人民的講話。"},{"start":12398.346,"end":12425.345,"text":"現在剛剛我看蘇曉慧委員也問您了自由民主人權法制都一樣重要怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論剛剛很多位委員不管在野黨或執政黨的委員針對大陸青年來台我們台灣現在變成沒有言論自由了我們要用政治的力量用這個政治我們用"},{"start":12426.186,"end":12428.127,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12444.778,"end":12455.806,"text":"我們不要一直的放話我現在就請教你您身為陸委會主委上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話對話不是放話有沒有對話"},{"start":12457.113,"end":12475.907,"text":"我想我們經常在呼籲對岸好那本席想請問你您知道有兩岸熱線電話開通嗎?您知道這件事嗎?那個是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的這個所以從這個民進黨執政以後兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了是嗎?"},{"start":12482.841,"end":12488.727,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12506.329,"end":12528.217,"text":"我想對岸設置的這個政治的障礙,讓兩岸沒有溝通,我們經常在呼籲對岸。就是對岸設置障礙,我們的對話一定要好好的進行,不要只是放話。因為時間的關係接著,你們說要以交流取代圍堵,交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流。"},{"start":12528.817,"end":12554.648,"text":"那官方的交流我再我看了一下兩個單位的這個報告我們只看到官方交流就列三項今年一整個你來到立法院報告就列三項活動這個實在是太少了實在是太少但是呢本席要說的是我們民間的交流非常的熱絡你應該也知道好民間交流"},{"start":12556.533,"end":12584.211,"text":"既然熱絡,那我們就要詢問我們臺海的這種政治經濟關係在你們主政之下真的是持續緊張那民間既然有社會維持和諧的互動可是我們發現今天也很多委員有質詢不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流你們的門檻越來越嚴格"},{"start":12585.632,"end":12596.148,"text":"你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵為什麼我們優先圍堵這個兩岸的交流呢本席舉幾個例子好不好舉幾個例子你學術研討"},{"start":12598.652,"end":12625.752,"text":"在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆啊,為什麼?就這個回答。是,跟委員報告,有關於學術交流啊,校際之間的都還在進行。你講的是兩岸這個社台機構的交流啦。沒有沒有,我在講學術喔。如果是學術交流的話,各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都在進行。你現在不是在講進行不進行。"},{"start":12626.893,"end":12651.958,"text":"現在民間要進行,結果申請的部分,你們的這個申請的這個審查的越來越嚴格,比疫情之前還嚴格。譬如說現在要求,陸委會要求15類大陸人士,包含宗教、文化、體育、學術來台從事各種專業交流,需要專案申請。"},{"start":12653.305,"end":12655.908,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12672.772,"end":12694.426,"text":"所以從我短短的質詢我們就知道我們陸委會跟海基會我們可以好好的對話不對話就用放話然後兩岸的情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的民間一直要交流然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋"},{"start":12696.087,"end":12723.964,"text":"所以這一塊就讓我們覺得大陸委員會大家知道陸委會是讓您就是陸委會這個單位跟大陸能夠做就像你們上面所寫的你要促進兩岸的和平共榮不是不斷的促進兩岸的這種挑釁或者是對立我們發現我們官方做的是這樣本席要再說明就是就像你看"},{"start":12724.904,"end":12752.736,"text":"假設是像客委會,客委會他是做什麼?他就是要對客家族群能夠建立一個很好的一個互動的關係。請問國會聯絡人做什麼?國會聯絡人就是要來國會,讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話,老是造成這個行政單位跟立法院的對立,這個國會絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣。"},{"start":12753.68,"end":12755.262,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12771.021,"end":12775.783,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12798.51,"end":12809.08,"text":"我們有阻擾,我們會協助正常健康有序的交流。我剛剛問的你也沒有回答,剩下的時間就請你回答。你審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格?你說因為兩岸的局勢,兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣?"},{"start":12824.785,"end":12850.536,"text":"我要跟委員報告所以你不是贊成民間交流嗎?結果你越來越嚴格阿是比較嚴謹沒有嚴格阿所以阿我跟你講你們都用文字齁全部都用文字然後呢實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流本席希望你們能夠具體改善好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":12853.497,"end":12858.499,"text":"謝謝徐召委的質詢,謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長,謝謝羅秘書長。接下來我們請吳啟明委員質詢。好,召委,一位同仁,我們聖母關眼,請入委會我們的邱主委。"},{"start":12885,"end":12901.507,"text":"委員好主委好主委針對我們臺灣的觀光業他們的反應現在入客來臺真的人數也是非常的少那本席在這邊的資料包括我們交通部觀光署1至9月觀光營運調查報告"},{"start":12904.488,"end":12905.528,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12919.654,"end":12923.758,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":12942.398,"end":12953.729,"text":"以目前的統計今年到9月才28萬5的人次那我們從今年的9月賦中國大陸就205萬那差距是7.2倍這是不是應該對吧"},{"start":12959.951,"end":12988.306,"text":"這個數字一到九月是對的對那這證明說兩岸平等平等的交流還做了不過那因為中國大陸十幾億人口沒有理由說我們到對岸那麼多人那他進來的人數還是相對的少很多那要怎樣做改善呢事實證明現在是入客還沒有放他們的人到台灣來所以入客不來是因為中國大陸不讓他的觀光客"},{"start":12988.666,"end":12990.347,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13014.022,"end":13016.284,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13038.166,"end":13039.046,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13060.373,"end":13061.114,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13079.597,"end":13087.66,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13106.886,"end":13108.987,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13127.717,"end":13144.316,"text":"是,跟委員報告我們在2020年的時候中國大陸就不讓他的學位生到台灣來所以已經四年了所以該畢業都畢業所以他從你剛剛說的有一萬多人現在學位生只剩下一千多人"},{"start":13144.956,"end":13146.637,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13164.65,"end":13192.815,"text":"要讓中國大陸學生他們對外有尋求他們留學的權益因為不少中國大陸的父母親打電話到我們學校來就說他們願意讓小孩來就讀但是就不得其門而入因為他們境外去到台灣來這個就讀學位呢是可能要由政府核准的這個在我們看來是不可思議但是這個就是事實不管是觀光客來台"},{"start":13193.635,"end":13202.457,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13221.062,"end":13248.776,"text":"但是雖然在這種情況我想我們的教育部也不斷地去透過相關的這個對口單位不斷地跟他們講那麼希望有學衛生來就讀那麼我們學校之間有很多交流合作協議那這個也是那個研修生來的原因那所以我們一方面把台灣的這個就是照顧陸生的一些方案做好"},{"start":13249.116,"end":13277.405,"text":"像我們今年年初就落實了這個陸森納入健保而且我們還完成了十項友善陸森的這些做法我們都不斷去對岸的說明我們歡迎陸森來台救族的政策沒有改變我們也希望他趕快來因為陸森來他有個好處看到台灣是一個自由民主國家看到我們這邊的民眾大家的生活條件都是比對岸好"},{"start":13277.921,"end":13302.72,"text":"所以陸生來臺灣對我們臺灣相對都是很正面是非常正面這是我們要加強的好不好是而且陸生來臺那個才是真正的交流像今天一直討論那個訪團的爭議他是因為是刻意的有媒體的所以他不是自由自在自主自然的交流沒有這個市制環境的交流啊真的無法"},{"start":13303.2,"end":13304.521,"text":"接著請丁學忠委員"},{"start":13335.256,"end":13339.773,"text":"感謝主席我請入委會邱主委請邱主委"},{"start":13343.766,"end":13358.341,"text":"主委好。主委好。我每次來這村子,我來坐在這裡,大家都已經替我問候了。我想不知道要怎麼說了,也是要問啦,也是要講一下啦。你也知道說,我們最近這個月,大家比較關心的就是我們馬前總統的基金會邀請到陸森來"},{"start":13367.591,"end":13370.394,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13385.005,"end":13409.13,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們校園的各種的學術交流還有校園之間的私生交流其實蠻多的不僅是馬英九基金會這一團那這一團當然我們從剛開始期待他是能夠帶來兩岸相互尊重健康有序的交流我們跟好多主管機關都一直在協助促成給他"},{"start":13409.85,"end":13412.512,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13440.747,"end":13444.47,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13456.279,"end":13460.323,"text":"有可能說出來我們不高興,但是因為我們是主人的身份,我們要有那種感動,下去交流。我們也希望透過這審議的交流,這很多企業都希望這審議的交流可以持續推動。"},{"start":13475.795,"end":13476.516,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13499.807,"end":13502.63,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13516.806,"end":13520.09,"text":"五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13536.547,"end":13540.009,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13564.481,"end":13564.961,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13583.533,"end":13584.634,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13602.469,"end":13606.851,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13628.76,"end":13630.021,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13651.815,"end":13655.037,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13680.535,"end":13682.515,"text":"請王逸川委員本席宣告我們中午不休息繼續開會"},{"start":13716.604,"end":13742.829,"text":"主席請陸委會邱主委好請邱主委黃委員好主委好我第一次站上執行台歡迎指教很緊張我也很緊張因為今天這個馬英九那一團去到清華大學受到跟台大一樣的待遇現在清華大學有人舉中華民國國旗"},{"start":13744.929,"end":13767.064,"text":"有人舉中華人民共和國的國旗這幾天下來陸委會覺得他們當時有承諾嘛他們當時有說來這裡不談政治來這裡不談不談不談政治他們有一堆承諾照你目前看來站在一個陸委會主委的角度"},{"start":13768.001,"end":13785.608,"text":"目前看來那一條紅線踩過去了沒跟委員報告坦白講我們作為主管機關我們非常遺憾因為我們不希望我們來台交流的團體會引起這個那麼多不同意見的對立"},{"start":13787.389,"end":13789.39,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13813.86,"end":13814.601,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13836.913,"end":13864.682,"text":"除了這次這一團以外之前的有沒有哪一團像這一團這麼誇張的跟委員報告就是我們輔導協助的團非常多那他都有按照我們的一些原則上或是一些建議比如說我們有所謂的三不一低調的規範我想絕大部分的團都有遵守所以你們會看到其實我們兩岸的團很多"},{"start":13865.302,"end":13866.704,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13887.113,"end":13897.638,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13915.666,"end":13927.402,"text":"所有的行程他們的這一個每天原來他們就有一個行程表對不對到哪一個學校跟什麼團體交流跟什麼要叫到目前為止有沒有脫離行程"},{"start":13929.744,"end":13956.472,"text":"就行程而言是沒有了但是我們本來有要求你必須要尊重校園的安寧尊重學生跟老師的正常的生活不要去打攪但是我們看到恐怕不是這樣也有衝突有抗議的而且越來越不安主委你也在大學教書以前"},{"start":13958.151,"end":13966.034,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":13989.367,"end":13990.628,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14009.603,"end":14011.664,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14030.816,"end":14031.296,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14048.064,"end":14051.806,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14073.652,"end":14076.374,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14097.043,"end":14099.284,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14123.132,"end":14124.033,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14142.639,"end":14168.3,"text":"主委請教一下海基會的業務因為海基會當初成立的目的是因為兩岸官方沒辦法交流所以成立一個民間機構透過民間方式來做交流所以海基會扮演一個兩岸民間橋樑的工作但是現在海基會大家都知道說功能越來越沒辦法凸顯了這個當然是因為兩岸關係不好這個是有大環境的影響我想在服務交流還是有很多功能"},{"start":14168.76,"end":14170.562,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14185.18,"end":14186.842,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14208.27,"end":14222.399,"text":"跟委員報告我們過去我們有三所臺商子弟學校他們在中國大陸涉及到我們主權意涵的或是比較敏感的他們的教科書都把它刪掉"},{"start":14223.063,"end":14225.984,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14243.032,"end":14244.694,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14260.234,"end":14263.255,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14283.203,"end":14285.584,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14301.932,"end":14304.054,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14324.629,"end":14326.09,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14347.681,"end":14369.34,"text":"海峽基金會本業應該要回歸兩岸民間協商,透過官方無法處理的,海峽基金會要扮演它的功能,這是海峽基金會應該要努力的方向。對陸地家庭、台商、在台陸生以及在中國大陸的台生的服務應該加強。後面還有一些數據,為什麼我們認為你們具體的業務越來越少,譬如說,"},{"start":14376.106,"end":14404.437,"text":"這是馬總統時代那時候當時台商有一些人身安全的事件協處一年大概是200件還有加上其他的一些財產法益事件一年大概可以海基會當時是處理600多件不過現在台商的相關的陳情案件大概就只剩下200件之前是600件現在剩200件我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來就剩下三分之一這其實是你們主要業務可是你們的這個處理的案件數卻一直下滑"},{"start":14406.184,"end":14410.908,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14432.14,"end":14435.601,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14449.565,"end":14451.446,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14479.343,"end":14479.903,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14498.079,"end":14515.158,"text":"還有另外一個數據實際上剛剛秘書長講就是說好像因為兩岸關係不好然後台商也變少但是其實海基會重點工作依然存在你看光是112年海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數當然不包括不只是台商就1萬633通"},{"start":14517.62,"end":14519.661,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14534.006,"end":14536.768,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14551.698,"end":14575.658,"text":"然後不然就是我們去各國做交流去辦什麼座談會我認為這不是海基會應該要做的那我覺得主事者的觀念很重要你主事者如果認為說我的主要存在目的是要解決兩岸的問題的話你就會朝那個方向但如果主事者的想法是說反正我們現在兩岸關係不好我也沒什麼業務那我就好好的開展我的對外擴展的業務甚至做教育的工作那整個就偏掉了啦"},{"start":14577.08,"end":14598.98,"text":"所以我是希望說海基會包括陸委會還是能夠回到本業,不知道這樣怎麼可以?如果找個時間有機會我再跟業委員再做當面報告。你一定會知道海基會不管在兩岸基本的結構、兩岸協商、交流以及各種服務工作,我們做了努力和準備。找個時間我當面再跟您做報告。好,謝謝。委員我們的本業我們還是最主要的。"},{"start":14599.46,"end":14603.003,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14625.902,"end":14627.963,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14645.041,"end":14656.819,"text":"主委好、董事長好我想很多委員大家都非常的關心就海基會的預算其實我把各個年度從2008年到2025年整個都把它劃出來了"},{"start":14661.377,"end":14684.228,"text":"那裡面不管是就人事費跟人事費以外其他的到了明年已經到了3.54億3.54億的這個金額大概我如果往前看了十幾年唯一大概能夠相比擬的只有2012年3.56億是一直朝向增加"},{"start":14685.6,"end":14707.414,"text":"的狀態問題是納稅人非常的關心我們的海基會預算不斷的膨脹那實際上面到底在做些什麼樣子的事情當然對台商的服務我相信這個業務是持續的那只不過說台商可能"},{"start":14709.095,"end":14718.985,"text":"移開中國這個生產基地也蠻多的所以可不可以簡要的跟大家講一下說這個預算不斷的增加最主要的理由到底是什麼"},{"start":14722.735,"end":14751.191,"text":"有海基會我來做說明可以嗎?可以可以可以那實際上海基會今年增加預算如果會補助的部分增加七千多萬但其中因為是過去其中真正海基會預算增加四千多萬因為他是用來過去我們是自籌現在改由政府補助增加多這第二原因那四千多萬裡頭有兩千萬是人員調薪以及勞退健保相關經費所以實際今年比去年增加是兩千萬"},{"start":14752.071,"end":14757.455,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14776.55,"end":14779.751,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14806.822,"end":14834.295,"text":"中國對台灣也不是很有善在這樣的情況之下要去做兩岸交流的事務非常的辛苦這個我們大家都知道但也不可諱言的在面臨困難的局勢辛苦的局勢的時候人民也在關心在這樣的情況之下為什麼海基會的預算還是會一直增加我剛剛是很善意開放式的給你們回答這樣子的一個問題因為"},{"start":14837.661,"end":14859.183,"text":"這個會牽涉到台灣跟中國彼此之間的關係剛剛秘書長也說了說有在進行很多的協商有在進行很多的交流協商的部分我就比較不清楚了目前在陸委會的立場台灣跟中國的談判應不應該以國跟國的方式來加以進行"},{"start":14861.593,"end":14872.554,"text":"跟委員報告我們認為兩岸關係最主要的癥結就是北京當局不願正視中華民國客觀事實存在這個我理解所以"},{"start":14873.587,"end":14894.745,"text":"所以答案是什麼?所以當年呢,兩岸的定位還沒有...對不起,我沒有多少時間啊,請你不要拖延我的時間啊,請你具體問題來回答。你剛剛說得很好啊,北京當局不願意正視中華民國的存在嘛,說得非常的好。但我的問題是,我們跟中國的談判要不要以國跟國的方式來進行?"},{"start":14897.452,"end":14924.79,"text":"跟委員報告如果這是兩岸都願意的話本來就是應該一國一國的方式至少我們是一個談判的實體要很清楚現在最主要問題他不肯正視我們客觀事實存在這剛說過了嘛我們在質詢備詢的時候基本上不要浪費時間浪費時間沒意義在那邊繞來繞去的直接回答問題有這麼困難嗎來我們繼續往下看"},{"start":14928.473,"end":14949.684,"text":"海基會的白手套功能既然已經減弱,從現在就應該開始縮編。未來兩岸要以國跟國的方式談判,海基會的價值就不存在。贊成雙方在對等談判的情況下廢掉海基會。這個主張主委贊不贊成?以現階段而言,我們認為海基會仍有"},{"start":14950.684,"end":14953.845,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":14967.239,"end":14994.915,"text":"解說海基會的預算規模跟原額,踢除養老的肥貓,否則也沒有那麼多事可以做。對這樣的主張不是事實。主委你贊不贊成?我當然不贊成,這不是事實。這不是事實嗎?剛講的這兩段主張,一個上面的主張說的人是陳其邁,下面的那個主張說的人是李俊逸。我一個字都沒改啊!"},{"start":14996.136,"end":15021.523,"text":"這是當初民進黨在野的時候對海基會所提出來的強烈指控跟批評現在民進黨執政了主委說這不是事實那顯然我們國家存在兩個不同的海基會國民黨在執...委員我也待過海基會我們同仁都非常認真負責你請你幫我把話講完好嗎"},{"start":15022.745,"end":15047.085,"text":"我說我們國家存在兩個海基會一個是國民黨時期的海基會因為國民黨時期的海基會我跟主委報告啊上面這些話都不是我講的全部都不是我講的這兩段主張一個是陳其邁講的一個是李俊逸講的所以污衊的人不是我您剛剛說了現在的海基會不一樣"},{"start":15049.175,"end":15077.124,"text":"李俊逸跟陳其邁批評的是國民黨時期的海基會現在民進黨時期的海基會按照主委剛剛的說法不公平絕對不是這樣那顯然我們的海基會氣象已經煥然一新了過去對海基會所存在的批評現在都不存在了我剛剛說我們存在兩個不同的海基會我是順著你的邏輯啊去做這樣的解讀那但是但是"},{"start":15077.984,"end":15101.312,"text":"事實上是不是真的這個樣子我們現在的海基會跟過去的海基會展現了什麼樣子的不同我相信這件事情的評價主委你可以有你的看法海基會董事長跟秘書長都可以有各自的看法但是我相信在台灣這個民主社會當中每一個人都可以有他的看法"},{"start":15101.832,"end":15125.403,"text":"而我們立法委員最重要的事情是什麼就是站在人民的立場幫人民把關預算嘛這個才是我們現在之所以會站在這邊站在這邊不是在吵架啦站在這邊我們為什麼要去理解這件事情我剛剛也很善意的給海基會做說明了嘛若會贊不贊成制定兩岸協議監督條例"},{"start":15128.603,"end":15155.372,"text":"我們有曾經努力過但是最主要是中國大陸並不接受不好意思兩岸協議監督條例是我國的國內法跟中國大陸有什麼關係我想就是我們完成這個也沒辦法恢復兩岸的協商這是兩回事一個是監督機制一個是立法的監督機制立法的監督機制我們中華民國是一個主權獨立的國家"},{"start":15156.621,"end":15180.762,"text":"我們制定這個法律還要中國點頭喔重點是什麼重點是陸委會的立場在哪裡嘛陸委會的立場啊我提醒主委一下您前一任的主委是誰邱太三主委您前一任的主委是邱太三再前一任呢陳明通主委陳明通主委嘛來我跟您交換一下意見"},{"start":15182.403,"end":15210.25,"text":"我2019年我那時候第一次在國會的時候我問陳明通啊說兩岸協議監督條例到底什麼時候要立陳明通那個時候在國會怎麼講的他說現在比較迫切的是政治議題的協議拜託立法院先修兩岸人民關係條例把兩岸人民關係條例裡面的政治性協議的問題先處理完那至於剩下的剩下他拜託說2019年"},{"start":15212.33,"end":15230.838,"text":"北京對台灣主權的恐嚇非常的嚴重兩岸協議監督條例他希望立法院先過兩岸人民關係條例政治性協議的部分其他的部分我們未來繼續推動這是2019年說的話現在已經是2024年了所以我只有個最簡單的問題從陸委會的立場兩岸協議監督條例還要不要定"},{"start":15238.976,"end":15262.004,"text":"報告委員我想過去陳主委要求的是五之三的那個政治性協議那至於一般經濟性事務性的這個監督條例那我們尊重大院的這個審議所以只有尊重大院的審議行政部門沒有立場我們行政部門有既有的相關機制既有的什麼相關機制說來聽聽"},{"start":15264.261,"end":15264.601,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15275.302,"end":15282.665,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15304.552,"end":15324.392,"text":"兩岸人民關係條例五之三這個是政治性的協議當初民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例只有限於政治性的協議嗎?主委,你有沒有看過民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例?有看過嗎?只有政治性的協議嗎?是這樣定義嗎?是嗎?"},{"start":15329.059,"end":15356.821,"text":"那個時候行政院並沒有行政院版的而是立法院的我們委員提出來的啊對啊所以我現在的問題就來了嘛蔡英文也做了承諾賴清德也做了承諾搞了半天什麼搞了半天這個承諾全部都是空話連版本都沒有啊連推動都沒有要推動啊我要講清楚的是什麼兩岸協議內容非常的多啊"},{"start":15357.731,"end":15376.701,"text":"需要在國會裡面好好受到監督受到公民社會好好監督的絕對不是只有政治性的協議嘛絕對不是只有政治性的如果只有政治性的協議的話當初一群人在推兩岸協議監督條例那大家不是都犯傻了嗎"},{"start":15378.195,"end":15389.974,"text":"現在的問題在哪裡?你剛說北京敵視台灣北京不肯承認中華民國存在的事實北京不肯跟我們好好的協商談判這個我都同意啊"},{"start":15391.076,"end":15415.675,"text":"這個我都同意啊但是中華民國作為一個主權獨立的國家我們十年前就知道了兩岸的協議沒有健全的國會監督機制所以公民社會才會要求要訂這個嘛所以蔡英文才會承諾嘛賴清德也才會承諾嘛結果過了十年以後我們陸委會的態度是怎麼樣尊重本院的審議尊重本院的審議"},{"start":15420.382,"end":15436.815,"text":"這個是執政黨應該有的態度嗎?我簡單問你,所以站在陸委會的立場,到底有沒有要推兩岸協議監督條例?我們認為我們現在兩岸人民關係條例相關的機制已有。如果明天社會,不好意思喔,我再說一次喔,當初為什麼會反對?"},{"start":15442.401,"end":15463.819,"text":"你現在的說法跟當初陸委會的主委一模一樣我為什麼說一模一樣當初他們就是說說兩岸人民關係條例裡面已經有政權的機制如果這句話成立的話過去這十年公民社會在要求兩岸協議監督條例是在要求假的喔是在要求假的喔"},{"start":15469.158,"end":15471.66,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15493.579,"end":15496.642,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15516.553,"end":15543.382,"text":"就是臺灣民眾黨黨團啊但我要問的是什麼一位蔡英文一位賴清德跟臺灣社會做了承諾具體的行動在哪裡我沒有看到具體的行動在哪裡好那請主委是不是可以提出這個後續的報告在一個禮拜內好不好提到那個內政委員會"},{"start":15547.944,"end":15549.665,"text":"主席有請主委請邱主委主委好我想請教一下南韓總統尹錫悅宣布戒嚴你覺得他這麼做是為了守護自由的憲政體制嗎?"},{"start":15575.68,"end":15604.716,"text":"跟委員報告因為這不是陸委會的執掌因為昨天的訊息也太快雖然我們一直在關注你做一個政府部門的首長你認同這種用解嚴的方式來去實現他自己個人的政治的想法嗎如果以我個人的話我們是站在自由民主的憲政體制不能隨意變更非常好嘛所以坦白講你覺得這種做法叫守護自由憲政體制不是吧是在破壞自由憲政體制吧"},{"start":15605.396,"end":15610.677,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15634.551,"end":15636.712,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15652.216,"end":15675.907,"text":"所以他在跟所謂的解嚴離開戒嚴時代有很大的關聯但我今天看起來我覺得民進黨的朋友對解嚴還蠻喜歡的所以竟然會去附和南韓的所謂的總統的戒嚴對戒嚴還蠻喜歡的那我跟你講我們就從幾件事情來看我等一下就教一下我們的主委你覺得任何的兩岸交流都是統戰嗎?"},{"start":15678.168,"end":15702.426,"text":"跟委員報告,雖然在大量的交流裡面,當然不排除有統戰,乃至於滲透。任何的交流都是統戰嗎?沒有沒有,不是這樣。謝謝你嘛。就是說當然不排除啦。不排除跟任何當然是有差別,程度的差別。好啦,我問到我要的答案啦。謝謝你答點沈博洋啊。這句話沈博洋講的啊。"},{"start":15703.584,"end":15725.779,"text":"我告訴你但是我跟你講今天齁我還是要幫沈博邦講一句話我覺得沈博邦其實講的也不能說完全不對因為現在的陸委會跟海基會我就覺得你們基本上剛剛像黃國昌講的我覺得是在妨礙交流維作你們主業的感覺至少兩岸的交流在民進黨執政是越來越倒退沒錯吧這一點你總不能否認吧"},{"start":15727.061,"end":15732.842,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15754.551,"end":15755.931,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15776.092,"end":15803.044,"text":"我也不知道為什麼今天覺得馬龍可愛就等於中共統戰成功他另外一個我再問你齁你覺得今天馬龍來台齁是不是就等於會混淆中共齁他存在血洗台灣流島不留人的企圖啊第一個啊中共是不是要血洗台灣流島不留人齁再討論啦馬龍來台跟中共血洗台灣流島不留人到底有什麼關聯我的邏輯不好請你開示一下"},{"start":15804.932,"end":15827.271,"text":"我想我們當初同意馬英九基金會推動這個交流是從很正向的角度去看但是現在出現了傷害臺灣人民情感的一些言論我們也是表達遺憾所以你們準的我先跟你講一件事情"},{"start":15828.132,"end":15830.014,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15843.148,"end":15864.814,"text":"那我就跟你講我剛剛要談你陸委會的預算跟海基會的預算照你的邏輯標準你竟然不能遇見我們沈伯陽大師的預言來這邊會造成留島不留人血洗台灣來這邊害得中共統戰成功來這邊兩岸的交流就是統戰你陸委會造成不讓陸委統戰部啊多可怕"},{"start":15866.713,"end":15894.773,"text":"所以我跟你講今天是你們准的然後來這裡玻璃心單單一個學生講一句話台灣就要沉了沈博洋的流島不由人就好恐怖了你現在這邊是我其實對主委搞不清楚你前面感覺是不認同沈博洋你後半段又開始認同他你到底是主張哪一部分你到底是希望兩岸交流還是兩岸不交流啊呃 跟委員報告我們也希望兩岸的交流能正常健康有序的進行"},{"start":15895.356,"end":15900.219,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15924.847,"end":15926.128,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15941.857,"end":15952.342,"text":"可是我今天從結果論來講你剛才也承認啊兩岸交流當然說因素不完全在我們這邊啦這我認同啦但從結果論來講兩岸交流是越來越差勁啦不是嗎至少比起馬政府時代沒錯吧我先不講責任歸屬啦兩岸之間是越來越交流成績越來越倒退嘛沒錯吧"},{"start":15964.312,"end":15966.235,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":15978.24,"end":15982.382,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16006.252,"end":16008.634,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16038.78,"end":16061.076,"text":"我直接講個結論當你今天你們民進黨一天到晚兩岸交流是統戰我跟你講我今天最快的建議很簡單海峽交流基金會改成海峽不交流基金會最快預算砍成零兩岸不交流最符合沈伯陽要的東西當然我不會到這種程度我也要講的是什麼"},{"start":16062.037,"end":16068.719,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16087.046,"end":16091.61,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16114.42,"end":16117.964,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16129.859,"end":16131.42,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16146.905,"end":16148.466,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16166.699,"end":16169.683,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16184.232,"end":16203.76,"text":"造謠不造謠是你今天審黑熊你一句話就可以對不對對啦對不起啦口誤啦審黑熊啦好不好對不起啦對不起啦請省委員尊重一下這個質詢的人你來這邊鬧場然後叫我今天針對我的質詢要回答"},{"start":16206.093,"end":16212.135,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16234.295,"end":16240.378,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16261.688,"end":16265.39,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16289.52,"end":16308.351,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16323.394,"end":16340.951,"text":"我們就預算來做討論。陸委會在這個114年的預算當中,法證的業務跟兩岸法證交流,政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1339萬1千元。那你這個目的是要研議"},{"start":16344.12,"end":16358.476,"text":"兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制所以本席要在這邊請教也就是說如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全"},{"start":16359.116,"end":16377.943,"text":"但是又沒有通知我們也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我們我國來進行通報那主委你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的一個權利呢請做說明"},{"start":16378.923,"end":16380.544,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16399.654,"end":16403.177,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16421.252,"end":16426.274,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16447.162,"end":16462.73,"text":"我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性他認為我們不答應他政治前提他處於你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切我從早上聽到現在但就是這個答案所以本席具體建議邱主委"},{"start":16464.551,"end":16492.936,"text":"我認為我們兩岸交流剛剛你也回答了兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流你剛才也特別回答了那我覺得我們台灣這個國家呢中華民國是一個好的國家跟全世界各國都應該要做交流對不對?跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛對不對?是,楊委員所言甚至為何這個非常好所以本行要請教我們如果只有一位說對方怎麼樣我們還是得不到答案"},{"start":16493.696,"end":16495.078,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16511.694,"end":16531,"text":"你的訊息有沒有?跟委員報告,我們現在還在密註當中。密註當中到底是有還是沒有?你有沒有掌控?有沒有?我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密註這個情形發生,也做應處。但是剛剛委員所說的是媒體的說法。哪一部分是媒體的說法?"},{"start":16534.841,"end":16536.062,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16554.699,"end":16557.103,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16567.901,"end":16584.494,"text":"我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素還有一些不確定的因素就你說的這個不確定的因素你認不認同說如果多交流多溝通可以延長誤判的可能性各位委員報告我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係你也是希望透過交流"},{"start":16590.579,"end":16591.461,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16605.643,"end":16606.724,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16622.276,"end":16636.693,"text":"在2020年的港版國安法以及2020年的維護國家安全的條例公佈之後那麼國人好像有一點點害怕好像有點害怕但是我們看到在2024年就今年"},{"start":16637.173,"end":16638.113,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16662.243,"end":16678.717,"text":"委員講這個因為中國大陸有國安條例港版國安法或是他們最近所定的這個國家安全條例對於我們赴港澳人身安全確實有很多的升高它的風險所以我們一直也呼籲赴入港澳應該要"},{"start":16681.579,"end":16709.158,"text":"資訊評估它的必要性並向我們的動態登錄系統來登錄以確保它如果有需要的話我們可以提供協助你講的這個動態登錄本期就直接跟你討論因為中華民國是一個民主自由國家你沒有辦法限制人民怎麼走但是你要維護他的安全對不對是因此你講到了也就是赴大陸的跟港澳的緊張救助相關的你所謂的就是那個簡訊"},{"start":16710.419,"end":16711.441,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16726.602,"end":16727.362,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16746.212,"end":16746.892,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16769.659,"end":16770.199,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16794.813,"end":16795.934,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16820.666,"end":16844.675,"text":"因為你目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的,對不對?你也回答了是,本席是要告訴你你要怎麼樣去精進方案,這個才是重點,要不然你運動化下去,人家又不願意,那你又認為很危險,那你又說很危險,然後又沒有方案出來,而且成效又沒有出來,那這個邏輯太奇怪,執行效能是不髒的,"},{"start":16849.097,"end":16872.733,"text":"所以我還是給你一個方向你剛剛告訴我你有很多的這個系統怎麼樣去防止你把那個說明資料給本席但是我最後還是要告訴你一句話也就是如果兩岸多交流兩岸多溝通是是我們也要努力這個方向你也願意這個方向但是需要是最等尊嚴健康有序的正常交流所以才不會有誤判"},{"start":16873.473,"end":16875.816,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16902.34,"end":16906.124,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請我們邱垂正主委好請邱主委我也好好主委好"},{"start":16913.131,"end":16914.932,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16935.299,"end":16937.38,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":16961.383,"end":16976.552,"text":"賴清德總統有因為去了一趟中國大陸之後回來之後他改變他的台獨思想嗎?就你的理解跟委員報告520之後我們賴總統重申暫穩中華民國憲政體制不卑不亢維持現狀"},{"start":16979.113,"end":16981.955,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17005.175,"end":17029.178,"text":"陸生團來台灣本來我們看到是說第一時間陸委會副主委沈有忠副主委表示說由活動內容項目來講沒有太多的國家安全疑慮啊因為畢竟我們看到是這一次這陸生團他們就是做學術交流有參訪有看101有看淡水有去這個護衛砲台有去這個打棒球也都很好啊"},{"start":17029.938,"end":17051.873,"text":"但是因為他講了一個脫口而出一個用詞而讓我們覺得是說現在是有疑慮的所以你今天早上有講說要做進一步的行政方面的處分是跟委員報告我們從這個團的協助他包括協助他來我們日前有沒有要求說他絕對不能講什麼話"},{"start":17053.715,"end":17055.116,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17072.034,"end":17072.815,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17089.065,"end":17094.287,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17113.035,"end":17114.156,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17142.918,"end":17143.958,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17163.463,"end":17179.87,"text":"這個是他們的意見表達這是多元民主的聲音那還有在者如果說你真的這樣講的話那我實在也說那媒體要不要也要有一些因為看起來就我的看他的那些畫面那也都是媒體的訪問"},{"start":17182.722,"end":17189.505,"text":"主委,我覺得社會在對立或說社會沒有對立,我某種程度上是你們的敏感神經在作祟。因為就我的理解跟認知,中國大陸的學生如果說他從小到大他可能被灌輸的教育觀念是這個樣子,"},{"start":17209.975,"end":17211.876,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17230.595,"end":17248.728,"text":"如果說今天我們要辦任何的一個正常的交流活動我們要求的是別人來到我們這塊土地上面沒有做侮辱性或者是這個攻擊性的言辭但是他一定要講什麼不可的話那我覺得目前為止我們也算是一種思想審查"},{"start":17249.548,"end":17263.993,"text":"主委你會不會覺得我們有必要把自己限縮到這種程度嗎我想已經違反了對等尊嚴的不當說法引起臺灣社會的激烈反應我想我們行政部會議員說實在話啦你是立法院委員會主委"},{"start":17268.755,"end":17285.533,"text":"所以說對於我們來講因為其實本席還有看到另外一個議題所以你今天一開始的時候也有新聞講說解除淨團令那陸委會說持續的評估跟推動但實際上我看內文來講好像其實也沒有任何實質的進展"},{"start":17287.366,"end":17288.728,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17306.049,"end":17307.45,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17320.49,"end":17335.266,"text":"這個東西我們是在警示是在6月27號提出來的那多少倍就是說我們現在從1月到10月賦入的是230萬人次"},{"start":17340.327,"end":17350.214,"text":"主委對業務沒有到很熟齁昨天你們提出來這所謂的專線的時候你們新聞裡面才講增加了五倍"},{"start":17351.543,"end":17353.924,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17378.114,"end":17379.455,"text":"所以看起來你不是一個量化指標,你是個案的一個評估?"},{"start":17405.871,"end":17406.532,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17425.575,"end":17426.276,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17442.412,"end":17445.554,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17461.383,"end":17475.509,"text":"所以看起來 我說實在話啦大家都期待兩岸能夠正常穩定的交流都能夠有更多元的對話讓兩岸能夠更了解金孟程度上可能會降低這個戰爭風險跟惡意的螺旋"},{"start":17476.81,"end":17492.453,"text":"但如果說連我們主旗幟者的大陸委員會都沒有用這種比較客觀明確的一個指標的話我真的很擔憂整個賴清德政府是不是都一味的用更加惡意的方向來持續增加對應沒有我們是為了國人的安全"},{"start":17493.234,"end":17494.795,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17511.314,"end":17516.817,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17536.306,"end":17557.926,"text":"核心存、核心存、核心存人不在。高金數人人、高金數人、高金數人不在。我們現在請沈博洋委員質詢。好,謝謝主席,那有請主委,謝謝。我們請邱主委。"},{"start":17563.007,"end":17589.499,"text":"主委好 主委好那今天大家要問的問題應該都很一致不過在這個之前我還是要講一下就是說真的立法委員之間沒有在互相監督的啦我們監督的對象應該是行政院各部會的體系但是很多委員會習慣性的用言論免責權在這邊造謠我跟你舉一個非常簡單的例子還記得之前我有提出這個立法委員去中國要這個報備的這個法案那當然是被他們阻擋"},{"start":17590.379,"end":17609.465,"text":"然後呢,我在那個專訪裡面呢,從頭到尾就在提說,風險高低,我認為立法委員風險高,所以他去中國應該要報備。整篇專訪都有全程的錄影,我一個字都沒有提到中配啦。就中配兩個字完全沒有出現在我的言論裡面。結果呢,台灣的媒體就下一個標題,難道沈博洋要管共中配嗎?就問號。"},{"start":17610.985,"end":17624.574,"text":"接下來羅志強上來質詢以後他每一次就說沈伯陽說要管控總配我根本講都沒講過這就是他們造謠產業鏈的方式剛剛也是一樣他就在講說我說兩岸交流全部都是統戰"},{"start":17625.697,"end":17628.539,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17646.852,"end":17648.534,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17664.276,"end":17691.433,"text":"我有問文化部說這一次馬龍來的這個問題因為很明顯他有共青團的人他有共產黨的人所以呢他的統戰的目的會比較強烈就是比一般的交流團更強烈那他在那麼強烈的狀況之下剛剛我記得那個逸川委員有問說那個紅線到底在哪裡那文化部那時候的答案是說還是要因為他要跟大家開會嘛他沒有辦法一個人去做這樣的決定但很明顯在今天應該說昨天啊開始他們就做了一些碰觸紅線的舉動"},{"start":17692.834,"end":17712.54,"text":"那我覺得這件事情很麻煩的原因是因為主委應該自己都知道交流團太多了然後你陸委會不可能每一個都跟在旁邊當然你會請他簽一些就說你不能做什麼不能做什麼但在執法的量能上面陸委會他本身就不是一個執法單位所以現在麻煩的地方是說如果他自己說他都有按照行程走"},{"start":17713.28,"end":17713.74,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17732.225,"end":17754.584,"text":"所以他有沒有做陸委會所謂的那個目的外之事情,不好,不好認定,這是第一種。第二種就是像媒體,因為假設他今天出來,這是他不管在台大還有今天在清大,媒體上面堵麥,如果他有比較親近的媒體,那個媒體故意問什麼問題,他就直接按照樣板去回答。那因為他說我沒有在做目的外的舉動,我就只是在受訪而已嘛。"},{"start":17754.984,"end":17775.862,"text":"所以就變成說這邊有一些灰色的地帶那這個灰色地帶以後我相信內委會不可能突然出現那麼多的執法量能所以這也是為什麼我覺得可能在一開始的時候我們要先做一些風險的控管是不是有些個別一開始乾脆不要允許然後能夠在我們能夠看得到的量能之下我們讓他們過來但是要限制他所做的行為那不知道這個未來的規劃會是什麼"},{"start":17777.483,"end":17806.132,"text":"是 非常感謝委員剛剛的寶貴建議像那個重要的這個交流點那我們比如說中山女眾那因為她是大學交流怎麼會到高中交流呢那後來還有一些很不堪的說法那讓這個中山女眾的師生都很憤怒我們也是同感憤怒不應該如此但是那一場我們就有會同如果會同教育部的人到現場去訪視"},{"start":17807.572,"end":17808.914,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17822.329,"end":17823.209,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17837.817,"end":17839.158,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17863.847,"end":17866.968,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17891.994,"end":17909.947,"text":"因為中國會去利用交流做統戰那我們能夠做的事情不是說把交流全部砍掉不是嘛我們做的事情就是他每次要利用的那個點我給他堵住我不能讓他又比如說這次交流的某一個部分來做統戰我們每一個都堵住那這樣的話我們就可以讓他回歸正常方式的交流"},{"start":17910.587,"end":17937.734,"text":"那這邊呢,剛剛其實我記得前面黃委員也有提到我在前面的委員也都有提啦他們就會講說講幾句話又怎樣比如說他講這一個中國台北啦什麼等等之類的這個也是意見表達的自由啊但我在這邊我也想要詢問一下但我自己個人的意見其實非常的清楚就是俄羅斯如果現在在烏克蘭的內部宣傳烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的一部分這個是俄羅斯在當地能夠享有的言論自由嗎?"},{"start":17938.514,"end":17960.657,"text":"我想陸團的人他當然不能完全享有我們台灣的言論自由所以我們當然會用我們目前兩岸的許可辦法或是他所承諾的這些聲明書來歸管他這是必然的所以我們也會基於這些違反我們既有的規定進行必要的行政查處與處分"},{"start":17961.738,"end":17977.916,"text":"因為這個顯然都是紅線嘛因為中國你等於講中國台北的時候他連中華台北都不肯講耶中華台北好歹是在洛桑協議的時候我們硬撐著然後用了這樣的一個名稱用了中國台北跟中華台北他的意思是說我連一中各表都不給你了啦"},{"start":17978.436,"end":17981.597,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財六、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":17996.303,"end":17997.904,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18022.516,"end":18037.267,"text":"所以他一方面講得那麼威嚇性另外一方面又用很軟性的方式去表達這個其實就是我們需要特別去提防的事情但最後我還是要提一下就是如果這件事情一再的發生比如說馬英九基金會"},{"start":18038.107,"end":18062.911,"text":"他這個邀請的如果三番兩次有這樣的違反的話我記得今天應該有提到是不是應該要至少限制他能夠再去邀訪的這一個次數或者時間等等之類的那不然的話他違反等於他沒有一個很確切的成本那對他來講他以後要實行這個幫助中國做統戰的成本會太低那這一方面我想說剛剛其實有稍微在逸川的那個時候回答到那是不是能夠再說一次這個部分"},{"start":18063.191,"end":18064.552,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18085.183,"end":18086.764,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18102.671,"end":18103.673,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18118.653,"end":18119.274,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18147.894,"end":18148.975,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":18169.407,"end":18194.706,"text":"為其答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會。討論事項所列審查大陸委員會暨所屬單位預算等相關預算提案請113年12月13日星期五中午12點送至內政委員會會場以後續審查作為進行本次會議到此結束現在散會。"}]}},{"id":"157834","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157834","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083607aa2edeec254f725e45dd5fe0ad21242f04b39567fafe61e536dac32b4bbbdb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"15:14:19 - 15:29:09","影片長度":"00:14:50","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T15:14:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:29:09+08:00","duration":890,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.53221875,"end":11.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.26846875,"end":22.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.53784375,"end":36.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.12221875,"end":66.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.12159375,"end":69.48846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.42909375,"end":71.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.38221875,"end":77.28471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.11159375000001,"end":82.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.30909375,"end":87.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.02159375000001,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.75534375000001,"end":93.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.68284375,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.85971875,"end":101.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.87159375,"end":102.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.85034375000001,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.36909375,"end":108.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.49909375,"end":110.41034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.26221875,"end":113.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.29596875,"end":113.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.31284375000001,"end":113.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.83596875,"end":113.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.88659375,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.03846875,"end":114.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.07221875,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.13971875,"end":114.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.34221875,"end":114.37596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.37596875000001,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.39284375000001,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.88221875,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.60784375,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.75909375,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.02909375,"end":122.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.43409375,"end":120.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.73784375000001,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.48846875000001,"end":126.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.14159375,"end":131.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.06909375,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.81096875,"end":140.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.09346875,"end":140.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.91159375,"end":154.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.01971875,"end":160.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.39409375,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.98034375,"end":162.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.19534375,"end":163.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.21221875,"end":170.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.27971875,"end":164.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.26596875,"end":171.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":171.56534375,"end":173.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.80971875,"end":175.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.85159375,"end":176.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.55534375000002,"end":186.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.95534375000003,"end":200.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.64096875,"end":205.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.80471875,"end":215.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.19971875000002,"end":217.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.75221875000003,"end":226.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.26971875,"end":228.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.12596875000003,"end":231.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.50534375,"end":232.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.36159375000003,"end":234.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.11659375000002,"end":237.56346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.12034375000002,"end":239.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.92596875,"end":240.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.19159375,"end":242.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.25034375,"end":243.87471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.12784375,"end":246.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.91221875000002,"end":248.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.31284375,"end":251.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.29971875,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.10971875,"end":255.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.82221875000002,"end":255.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.83909375000002,"end":260.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.96909375,"end":262.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.77471875000003,"end":267.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.90909375,"end":268.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.63034375,"end":269.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.49096875000004,"end":269.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.50784375,"end":269.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.72721875,"end":270.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.43596875000003,"end":277.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.57409375000003,"end":281.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.53971875,"end":284.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.62784375,"end":284.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.24784375,"end":318.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.52534375000005,"end":330.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.41034375000004,"end":326.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.54096875000005,"end":328.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.74721875,"end":340.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.18409375000005,"end":351.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.50284375,"end":358.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.91159375,"end":358.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.94534375,"end":358.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.97909375,"end":360.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.76346875,"end":366.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.28596875000005,"end":366.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.89346875,"end":375.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.24221875,"end":376.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.39409375,"end":376.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.98471875,"end":377.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.03534375000004,"end":377.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.13659375000003,"end":377.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.32221875000005,"end":378.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.61721875,"end":383.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.25784375,"end":386.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.50221875,"end":386.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.53596875000005,"end":386.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.58659375,"end":386.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.63721875000005,"end":386.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.68784375,"end":386.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.77221875000004,"end":386.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.85659375,"end":386.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.90721875,"end":386.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.92409375,"end":393.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.36596875000004,"end":395.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.85096875000005,"end":405.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.92534375,"end":414.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.09284375000004,"end":414.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.19409375000004,"end":414.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.22784375000003,"end":414.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.32909375,"end":414.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.39659375,"end":414.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.54846875000004,"end":414.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.66659375,"end":414.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.75096875,"end":415.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.86471875,"end":422.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.25596875,"end":430.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.02284375000005,"end":435.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.55784375,"end":439.43909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.65846875000005,"end":445.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.39596875,"end":447.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.89346875,"end":450.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.45846875,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.96346875,"end":473.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.03721875,"end":483.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.36909375000005,"end":502.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.41471875,"end":488.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.01346875,"end":491.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":502.93971875000005,"end":507.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.34846875000005,"end":513.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.97596875,"end":514.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.22909375,"end":514.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.26284375,"end":514.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.3472187500001,"end":514.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.3640937499999,"end":514.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.54971875,"end":514.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.66784375,"end":525.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.2022187499999,"end":530.3784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.88471875,"end":554.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.12096875,"end":531.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.94034375,"end":553.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.1215937500001,"end":561.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.3997187500001,"end":558.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":561.68159375,"end":563.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.63909375,"end":564.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.7865937500001,"end":564.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.8034687500001,"end":568.7353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.8828437500001,"end":572.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.46471875,"end":572.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.86971875,"end":582.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.06659375,"end":592.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.71159375,"end":585.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.2547187499999,"end":599.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.4097187500001,"end":606.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.4340937500001,"end":607.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.2609687500001,"end":628.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.20284375,"end":628.2703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.87784375,"end":628.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.89471875,"end":633.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.7040937500001,"end":634.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.76721875,"end":634.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.88534375,"end":649.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.4653437500001,"end":649.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.8703437500001,"end":649.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.8872187500001,"end":649.9209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.9209687499999,"end":649.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.95471875,"end":651.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.06846875,"end":662.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.10221875,"end":651.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.59409375,"end":665.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.18471875,"end":664.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.6359687500001,"end":670.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.94721875,"end":684.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.97034375,"end":687.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.3159687500001,"end":689.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.5222187500001,"end":691.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.70346875,"end":695.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.2765937500001,"end":697.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.0359687499999,"end":698.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.63909375,"end":705.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.81096875,"end":716.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.1003437500001,"end":727.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.1028437500001,"end":760.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":760.9584687500001,"end":762.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.03846875,"end":768.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":763.6753437500001,"end":764.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.78846875,"end":770.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":770.93159375,"end":813.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.7434687500001,"end":815.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.7009687500001,"end":822.7547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":823.05846875,"end":830.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.97284375,"end":846.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.95346875,"end":846.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.97034375,"end":847.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.10534375,"end":847.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.1897187500001,"end":847.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.24034375,"end":847.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.96596875,"end":851.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.93159375,"end":857.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.7534687500001,"end":859.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":860.6728437500001,"end":875.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.6072187500001,"end":887.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.6684687500001,"end":890.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.44034375,"end":890.96346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.56,"end":22.379,"text":"好,謝謝主席：各位委員：各位官員：大家午安：事由有請洪部長張委員好部長好部長"},{"start":23.958,"end":50.655,"text":"這是您的上任是因為一位無姓公務員的白白的犧牲所以政府應該趁此機會讓申訴的機制更加的完善那尤其這個北分署謝宜蓉的這個問題她現在已經辭職了可是我想很多民眾還是非常好奇第一個要請教部長的她為什麼可以升官升得這麼快而且過去就本席所得知她就是"},{"start":51.375,"end":69.146,"text":"負責這個過去有負責過救安基金的公務員那請不請部長可以跟我分享一下您就你現在調查的狀況你瞭解他可以這個做直升機三級跳的一個做這個分北分署長的原因嗎他背後有什麼靠山嗎這個"},{"start":74.614,"end":92.465,"text":"張永過去確實這個謝永芬署長他的經歷他在做分署長前的職位是什麼我想也大家都都很清楚你不是想請教說你瞭解的是如何我我我我我可以跟文說但是就他當時為什麼這個"},{"start":96.909,"end":110.105,"text":"跳升到被牽合到升到北分組分署長這件事情我確實不瞭解到現在還不瞭解就是到底為什麼當然我覺得這事情必須是接受到社會的公平你不想瞭解嗎"},{"start":113.989,"end":140.652,"text":"這個相關的決策做這個決策就沒有辦法杜絕相關未來產生同樣的問題我說我的意思是做這個決策當然決策的人必須接受到社會的公平那到底是誰做這樣的決策您清楚嗎清楚或不清楚若不清楚就說不清楚清楚或是現在不能回應不清楚清楚我現在無法回應"},{"start":143.181,"end":171.033,"text":"跟委員報告當時謝分署長他前一個工作是在那個部長辦公室裡面的專門委員那在最後部裡面核定這個派定的時候他說他跳過副組長跟組長的這個職位的原因是什麼因為你講到他的職位嘛原因我們不知道程序原因不知道那你三歲我可以確認程序是由勞動力發展署發一個公文建議部裡面來核定他為分署長那誰核准的"},{"start":171.813,"end":176.017,"text":"部裡面依照人事程序核定的誰請問你知道誰核准的嗎這個要問"},{"start":182.004,"end":204.847,"text":"當時依照我們的人事的群者劃分是當時的許部長核定的許銘春許部長核定的好謝謝所以現在洪部長你也了解了所以部長他是有職權可以核定這樣子的人事案所以我才要問才要跟我們現任的洪部長講這樣的事情所以有關係就沒關係所以第一點要大家可以釐清那第二個"},{"start":205.848,"end":231.957,"text":"您今年在媒體上也有特別提到說今年2月有人跟您申訴有關勞動部的一些鬼故事就是霸凌的事件那可是很可惜的當時好像有被辭案的情況那我想要請教一下您自己的案子您自己提出的霸凌案為何被辭案那現在當任部長有沒有去做調查那個跟趙委員說明第一個"},{"start":233.447,"end":259.859,"text":"其實當時並不是有人來跟我申訴或有人來跟我澄清所以我有聽聞到相關這個謝芬署長這個不當管理的傳聞我有聽聞但不是有人來跟我澄清那你有聽聞那你後續有做澄清嗎那我其實就把這樣子的訊息向勞動部反映那請問勞動部會何此案那你現在當任部長的時候你想要重啟調查嗎"},{"start":261.181,"end":282.496,"text":"我現在正在重啟調查有關於你被施案的案件你有重啟調查所以在調查報告會提出來這樣的內容那個沒有就只要確認清楚而已我像張委員說我當時其實聽聞的並不是吳姓公務員的案子是對於當時謝芬署長的不當管理的一些作風所以我當然在部分提出提醒可是這並不是針對一個個別的個案的狀況"},{"start":286.254,"end":304.214,"text":"好,沒關係,我希望說部長你還是要有guts,要來針對你自己提的案子,自己擔任有行政職位的以後自己應該來重啟調查,就代表現在還有你提出的這個案子還有人在被霸凌當中,所以你既然擔任部長,之前有了解的案子應該要去查清楚。"},{"start":304.855,"end":328.907,"text":"那當然部長當然上星期有一個新聞也很大齁就是當然你當任部長的時候你有要求齁這個勞動部各單位齁到週末的時候來跟你做這個部會間的報告齁那後來當然是因為當然是第一個啦好像本來有說有封口後來你說沒有嘛那後來當然你也改口絕對沒有封口絕對沒有絕對沒有封口絕對沒有好"},{"start":330.848,"end":350.853,"text":"沒有封口那我想要跟你請教一下勞動部在你講完這些事情的時候雖然沒有開會勞動部上週末有多少人週末加班你知道嗎?我被你講了雖然你沒有封口你也沒有叫大家不要加班可是因為新冠上任三把火大家還是有加班你有確認這樣的情況嗎?"},{"start":355.563,"end":378.135,"text":"我坦白說我並沒有我我我能夠現在不知道勞動部整體的加班狀況還是不清楚我能我也很想知道但是我們要找到一個比較好去了解這件事情好那時間的關係我快問快一點齁我知道你好像比較累齁那你就你我請問一下你是何時現在說要重啟調查你是何時開始重啟調查的時間點是什麼時候是上週上週大概禮拜幾"},{"start":379.636,"end":405.553,"text":"我們上週大概從禮拜三就開始做相關的作業的討論然後開始從開始做相關作業的準備好那大概調查報告你今天有很多委員回覆嗎那本席想要請教你的是說過去的調查小組有說這個調查的這個調查的這個主持的人後跟這個謝芬署長後有這個友好關係哦那請問一下現在調查小組跟過去調查小組的最大不同是什麼"},{"start":407.254,"end":422.242,"text":"現在是由我自己親自來當召集人那還有沒有什麼其他專家學者單位有 有會有外部專家有沒有什麼跟之前的調查小組不一樣的地方嗎主責的主責就是說第一個是我我自己來擔任調查小組的召集人"},{"start":423.323,"end":444.289,"text":"然後在調查小組的成員上面那當然跟過去也有不同部長你好像沒有辦法很清楚的回應到底有哪一些不同吼那希望說你再繼續加油吼到底哪一些不同吼不然只有講不同其實好像感覺有點換湯換藥那我在請教吼當時媒體有踢爆吼就是我們當時的"},{"start":445.709,"end":474.349,"text":"謝宜榮前分署長他在擔任分署長的時候他有這個長官的直屬公務電梯你知道這件事嗎你當時有去看謝宜榮的辦公室他到底有沒有直屬的公務電梯跟文說明其實那是在發案署在新莊大樓裡面他有一個因為他裡面有好幾個部會不只是勞發署還包括其他部會都在裡面所以那整棟大樓裡面其實所以有沒有長官只有長官可以搭直屬電梯"},{"start":475.129,"end":494.683,"text":"那你現在是不是可以可以宣布說現在這個長官能搭自主電梯未來是所有所有的公務員都可以搭乘上禮拜二去北分署跟老爸說我就沒有搭那個電梯我自己就沒有搭那個電梯所以現在還是只有長官可以搭因為這個涉及到其他部分因為他是"},{"start":495.103,"end":499.626,"text":"現在的狀況還是只有長官能搭的直屬電梯你現在去了解這樣的狀況你只是選擇不搭可是沒有想說要改變"},{"start":514.918,"end":517.66,"text":"那我再請教一下勞動部裡面有沒有這樣子的長官只有長官可以搭的直屬電梯沒有"},{"start":532.492,"end":553.969,"text":"我希望說第一個部長在這邊可以答應第一個勞動部如果有只有長官能搭的直屬電梯從今天開始起開放給所有的勞動部的員工都可以搭乘第二個希望你來協助就是當你講的現在沒有辦法來協調的這個部分由你來協調讓所有的這個所有我們的基層員工可以來搭"},{"start":556.472,"end":568.508,"text":"你覺得這樣合不合理在勞動部裡面我絕對不會去要求哪一個電梯只能誰搭絕對不會去要求這件事情所以我自己這個開政務委政務會議的時候前政務委的政務會議你可以提出來啊"},{"start":570.049,"end":592.127,"text":"你是勞動部長你不是不僅是紅委員是我我我如果其他部會同意的話我當然同意在我們在新莊本部就不去再去區分所謂的長官跟一般的工作人員的電梯的使用所以你可以答應我說你會來提出這樣子的建議嗎我願意來提出這樣建議好謝謝齁好幫所有公務人員發聲啦齁好接下來我想要請教的就是說"},{"start":593.288,"end":613.807,"text":"未來非常大家非常重視的我們未來所有的這個勞工在週末如果收到這個LINE的訊息是不是應該要10分鐘內回應不然會收到檢討以及這個過去有這個打卡部分有假打卡真實有加班的問題是不是寫勞動部長在這邊可以跟大家"},{"start":614.387,"end":615.768,"text":"這樣是不可以的是不是"},{"start":634.885,"end":661.721,"text":"你說哪一個事情?就是週末傳LINE有10分鐘內要回覆或者是這個我們公務部門現在有假打卡就是事實上有上班可是假打卡說提早下班可是事實上還在上班這樣的狀況是不是可以未來可以取消掉?張委員你現在因為你剛才在講的是好幾件事情沒有沒有就兩件第一個就是週末的時候傳LINE要多久時間可以回覆過去謝宜榮分署長是說10分鐘內要回覆嘛那這個問題是不是可以把它解決就沒有以後都不用這樣做"},{"start":662.702,"end":689.552,"text":"第二個是我當然沒有這個規定謝宜蓉分署長這個規定是他自己的規定我們當然絕對不會有這樣的規定那第二個就是長期公務人員齁就是假打卡就是過時上班可是叫他提早做打卡然後還是繼續加班的問題這樣子對我們所有公務人員來講未來是不是可以把這個問題給解決在勞動部內的公務人員因為我是勞動部長勞動部所屬下的公務人員我會要求"},{"start":690.552,"end":715.958,"text":"不要有打假卡的狀況會有加班但該怎麼報就怎麼報好謝謝你的承諾好最後還有兩個最後兩個問題不好意思主席第一個救安基金的部分媒體踢爆有花了8000萬在不當的使用過程中那今天很多委員都提說救安基金使用的目的那我本席非常懷疑為什麼媒體會踢爆這8000萬請問這8000萬是用在哪些部門請問部長你知道嗎"},{"start":717.248,"end":726.848,"text":"還有這8000萬是否屬實?這8000萬到底是只有用在本分署還是勞動部還是哪邊?然後這8000萬的金額是怎麼來的?他到底是8000萬還是更高?"},{"start":728.114,"end":754.811,"text":"跟委員報告這個8000萬其實是我們的媒體朋友他透過公共那個採購的一個公告決標的一個結果去做的查詢這裡面包括勞動力發展署的這個會議室的一個裝修還有公文信封紙張的採購以及北分署的這個公共空間的一個美化跟清潔用品跟影印紙還有一個就是南分署南分署他在相關的建築物包括他那個保取"},{"start":755.371,"end":778.262,"text":"銷安的一個設施的一個增強跟外牆的整修等等那確實是有這些採購案好所以這上面的資料是沒錯的嗎好這些是在是公開資料上面媒體去把它給去去查到去找出來的對好那希望部長後未來這些都是人民納稅錢未來需要說這樣的情況不要再發生好最後我要問一個重點就是說"},{"start":779.122,"end":803.525,"text":"在您當任立法委員的時候,民國111年的4月25號,當時您有質詢許明春部長,提出因為台商回流,人力需求大增,製造業面臨三缺問題,缺地缺工缺宿舍,所以在質詢勞動部長許明春的時候,您要求要全面來盤點未來移工人數的住宿需求,而且依照公務預算進行"},{"start":804.266,"end":816.561,"text":"公辦公營的移工宿舍的研究評估報告需要說來蓋這個移工的這個這個宿舍有沒有這樣的有沒有這樣的事情我當時有質詢這個事情那請問你現在擔任勞動部長你會把你當時質詢前勞動部長的事情給承諾給實現嗎"},{"start":824.21,"end":846.083,"text":"我當然會針對包括移工的在臺灣的生活的需求住宿是其中一個生活需求所以你未來會來做這一塊那你在做這一塊的時候我們是不是還有很多廣大的臺灣勞工或原住民的好朋友還有很多新住民的好朋友他的這個宿舍問題是不是可以一併來解決不要只針對這個移工的部分"},{"start":847.274,"end":859.3,"text":"跟委員說明一共部分確實是因為他這個他進來以後他其實因為僱主會需要提供他相關的宿舍這是在僱主上面的責任"},{"start":860.851,"end":860.891,"text":"當然,好,謝謝"},{"start":888.721,"end":889.045,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝張委員"}]}},{"id":"157833","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157833","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083607902756c40757103e45dd5fe0ad21242f04b39567fafe61ed1d510c8f51747fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"15:03:35 - 15:14:13","影片長度":"00:10:38","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T15:03:35+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:14:13+08:00","duration":638,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.629093750000001,"end":7.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.813468750000002,"end":15.505343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.876593750000001,"end":16.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.973468750000002,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.54721875,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.76034375,"end":32.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.15659375,"end":34.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.16471875,"end":44.682218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.89721875,"end":49.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.094718750000006,"end":51.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.65159375,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.938468750000006,"end":51.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.97221875,"end":51.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.98909375,"end":52.039718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.039718750000006,"end":52.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.10721875,"end":52.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.22534375,"end":52.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.047843750000006,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.70971875,"end":59.228468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.915968750000005,"end":66.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.27784375,"end":68.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.47159375000001,"end":70.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.88909375,"end":71.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.32346875,"end":75.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.25534375000001,"end":77.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.26346875,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.22034375000001,"end":87.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.05971875,"end":91.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.06346875,"end":91.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.26971875000001,"end":94.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.63221875,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.63159375000001,"end":103.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.06534375000001,"end":107.22096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.53721875000001,"end":111.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.46096875,"end":113.95409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.49034375000001,"end":113.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.90346875,"end":113.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.95409375000001,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.64971875,"end":119.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.96159375,"end":130.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.06096875,"end":137.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.86596875,"end":146.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.91096875,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.96971875,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.24784375000002,"end":153.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.72409375,"end":155.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.34846875000002,"end":155.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.00659375,"end":157.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.51659375,"end":161.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.83659375000002,"end":169.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.28284375,"end":171.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.97034375,"end":178.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.91846875000002,"end":181.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.63971875000001,"end":183.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.16659375,"end":196.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.86096875,"end":201.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.09221875,"end":202.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.13846875000002,"end":205.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.90596875,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.01534375,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.62284375000002,"end":213.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.10721875000002,"end":221.24534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.59971875000002,"end":232.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.45034375,"end":234.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.20971875,"end":233.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.86346875,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":234.88034375,"end":239.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.19159375,"end":246.47346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.01346875000002,"end":248.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.83596875,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.96221875,"end":251.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.87346875000003,"end":251.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.37534375,"end":260.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.96534375,"end":257.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.98221875,"end":259.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.96909375,"end":263.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.00284375,"end":262.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.97284375000004,"end":264.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.46221875000003,"end":264.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.59284375000004,"end":268.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.66034375000004,"end":265.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.49534375,"end":270.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.59221875000003,"end":275.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.49909375000004,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.30471875,"end":276.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.91596875,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.91034375000004,"end":287.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.50471875,"end":291.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.31846875,"end":293.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.97659375,"end":294.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.36034375,"end":297.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.69346875,"end":305.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.67096875000004,"end":310.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.03721875,"end":311.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.34909375,"end":313.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.02409375,"end":317.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.50034375,"end":325.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.19096875,"end":327.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.01346875,"end":329.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.12284375,"end":333.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.93221875,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.03284375000004,"end":339.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.35346875000005,"end":339.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.24346875000003,"end":344.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.24284375,"end":347.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.33096875,"end":349.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.96346875,"end":354.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.48596875000004,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.58221875000004,"end":365.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.04971875,"end":375.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.50471875000005,"end":371.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.19159375000004,"end":380.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.81534375,"end":382.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.54909375,"end":389.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.47221875,"end":391.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.96971875,"end":391.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.17221875,"end":397.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.87596875,"end":399.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.76596875,"end":407.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.05159375000005,"end":424.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.46846875,"end":413.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.41659375,"end":421.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.13784375,"end":431.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.57534375,"end":439.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.07159375000003,"end":444.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.53096875000006,"end":448.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.07471875000005,"end":451.01534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.28534375000004,"end":452.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.44971875000005,"end":458.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.21659375,"end":460.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.10659375,"end":465.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.71346875,"end":470.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.40846875000005,"end":474.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.41221875,"end":478.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.87159375000005,"end":481.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.81221875000006,"end":483.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.97221875,"end":492.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.07659375000003,"end":496.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.20221875000004,"end":499.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.81346875,"end":501.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.12971875000005,"end":505.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.46659375,"end":510.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.14096875,"end":512.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.4865937500001,"end":519.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.2578437500001,"end":520.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.43909375,"end":520.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.5234687500001,"end":520.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.5403437500001,"end":520.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.7590937500001,"end":526.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.05409375,"end":531.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.7790937500001,"end":535.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.36909375,"end":537.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.9890937499999,"end":538.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.74409375,"end":540.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.2122187500001,"end":543.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":541.6003437500001,"end":542.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.4397187500001,"end":547.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.72596875,"end":548.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.6159687500001,"end":562.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.16659375,"end":566.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.0772187499999,"end":576.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.3797187499999,"end":577.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.3372187500001,"end":578.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.6072187500001,"end":581.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.6784687500001,"end":585.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.3784687500001,"end":593.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.5047187499999,"end":587.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.2334687499999,"end":600.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9497187500001,"end":602.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.00846875,"end":604.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.11784375,"end":611.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.25596875,"end":613.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.11221875,"end":616.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.79971875,"end":618.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.5928437499999,"end":618.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.31409375,"end":624.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.57096875,"end":623.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.91221875,"end":626.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.61221875,"end":632.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.94471875,"end":636.58971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.676,"end":33.826,"text":"主席有請部長謝謝羅委員部長好之前那個許民村前部長被爆料就用就業安定基金他的音樂會花了300多萬那你知道他的幕後花絮影片花了多少錢幕後花絮影片對我告訴你啦"},{"start":35.236,"end":44.319,"text":"做了7支影片花了203萬短影片就是60秒的短影片然後單支的價格是29萬沒錯吧是你知道平均每支點擊率多少嗎目前是300多對這是辛苦你了300多這個數字部長你聽得下去嗎"},{"start":61.253,"end":73.782,"text":"誒部長你也有做那個平台吧對不對是這效率看起來當然扯吧昏倒啦29萬照你們說300多的點擊率能看嗎"},{"start":78.672,"end":106.978,"text":"跟委員報告那整個的案子是一個音樂會以及音樂影帶的拍攝我講的是幕後花絮影片就是七支連同那個整個音樂會的演出沒關係沒關係喔這個這一件事情齁這影片目前都還在勞動部的YT上嘛對不對是但是許民村辦公室說這是不實指控欸我想請問部長一支影片29萬是真的還假的是不是不實指控"},{"start":108.858,"end":130.109,"text":"這個影片是當初我只問你嘛有沒有一支影片29萬嘛有沒有嘛這是整體連同音樂片的那個製作好啦我告訴你喔拍攝內容你們在性別工作平等法20週年音樂會及音樂影片結案報告裡就寫得很清楚一支就是29萬科目都有"},{"start":132.23,"end":157.29,"text":"還要再幫他幫我們的許明川炎黃嗎需要嗎部長新氣象不需要吧我們沒有必要為幫任何人去炎黃但我當然不是很清楚知道許前不講他所謂的不實指控的在講的是哪一件事情他就說這件事整件事是不實指控啊就是我不知道他具體是指哪一件事我們不用去為任何人對護短我跟你講國家錢就這樣浪費啦就一個安定基金的錢就這樣浪費啦"},{"start":163.888,"end":182.725,"text":"一個影片點擊率可以低到這種程度做了什麼他要去當演唱會去當歌星吼這邊浪費國家的錢喔現在還不滿足欸還要把他的演唱會來做幕後花絮欸都是拍他喔幕後花絮喔真的很愛秀欸我再想請教你下一個問題喔"},{"start":185.239,"end":200.061,"text":"新北市議員我們這個就是謝宜龍挪用就業安定基金145萬在公共空間種個人植物需要24小時的燈照所以112年新莊本部用電量高達3萬多度"},{"start":202.25,"end":202.59,"text":"這是真的吧?"},{"start":233.131,"end":237.535,"text":"你知道謝宏是2023年3月當上北分署的署長嗎?你知道2022年勞動部北分署用電度數是多少?"},{"start":253.667,"end":262.531,"text":"我手上的數據大概30幾萬度吧我手上你們勞動部給我的數據237萬度我講的是北分署不是新莊我記得是30幾萬度吧我講的是北分署237萬度這是韓訓練場北分署在新莊本部應該是30萬度"},{"start":277.681,"end":288.232,"text":"2023年齁,我們謝榮當了署長之後你知道變了多少度嗎?整個北分數?呃,我根本不知道,剛才就是說我們查了112年跟121年的差別你講是寫到北,我講是整個北分數啦251萬度啦,沒錯吧?"},{"start":293.476,"end":310.003,"text":"沒錯吧兩呃我說的是新莊因為他的辦公室在你不要再跟我講新莊放下新莊好不好我講的是北分署我已經質詢了多久你倒還在跟我停在新莊我在北北分署啊難道今天謝宜榮只管新莊本部啊他不管北分署啊好"},{"start":314.602,"end":325.086,"text":"誒 電費一年就要342萬而且實際上其他的分署的用電數是下降的哦237.2萬度2023變251.2萬度那我就問啊 其實北分署一年用電數增加了14萬度為什麼跟委員報告 因為疫情之後呢相關的這些直接服務的誒不對哦"},{"start":341.297,"end":353.311,"text":"其他的分署用電數是怎麼樣?是上升還是下降?我跟你講部長我要說句實在話啦你不用再幫他們背了啦他的浪費是大家有目共睹見證的啦"},{"start":355.826,"end":381.785,"text":"我跟羅委員報告齁我其實絕對沒有要去幫誰背我現在就問吧那其他的分署的用電數你們給我資料是下降的啊所以不要再找藉口什麼疫情藉口那其他單位就不受疫情影響部長我跟你說今天你的所有的幕僚今天這種表現啊還在遮蓋掩蓋那我就很懷疑你上來到底能夠滅什麼火我再想請教一下一個問題啊"},{"start":384.759,"end":405.276,"text":"謝宜龍他用救難定基金來花145萬種植物有這回事嗎我跟委員說明145萬是北分署他其實一些公共空間的這個綠美化工程就我查明後他本身他自己的辦公室並沒有用到這145萬但是"},{"start":408.098,"end":430.804,"text":"他為了照射那些植物所裝設的軌道燈確實是用舊安定基金那這部分是非常非常不妥當的而且這也不能被接受的所以那些軌道燈是用舊安定基金做的114年舊安基金裡面勞動力發展署辦公室業務基金所需水電油物通訊文書管理辦公室"},{"start":431.964,"end":439.469,"text":"用品維護、辦公廳設、公共空間、綠美化、衛生、安全等費用114年都是編多少錢?1億1849萬嘛 對不對那你覺得哪一個部分他花的最多?電費是最多啦電費在這個勞動力發展署各分數112年加總總花費大概是5837萬但是你知道"},{"start":461.241,"end":470.268,"text":"所謂的其他的包括所謂的購置辦公用品維護辦公廳設公共空間綠美化安全衛生你知道花多少錢嗎6000萬啊部長剛剛講的8000萬我跟你講"},{"start":479.929,"end":499.275,"text":"你如果仔細挖進去啊8000萬都還不才是小額科我向你說明其實我在上禮拜上任後其實就有要求要檢討救安基基金的資用我知道我看過了啦你在那邊我看過了但我要今天要提醒你的是問題的嚴重性是我今天要提醒部長"},{"start":500.851,"end":512.061,"text":"真的太扯了如果今天勞動部要選一個年度代表字我送你一個字就是扯我希望你把這扯的文化打破掉這是我們對你的期許那接下來我再問你你知道勞動部114年媒體宣傳費跟出國經費各自編多少錢嗎114年對"},{"start":524.773,"end":548.724,"text":"媒體宣傳費62萬是行政院轄下機關最少的部會非常節儉要肯定你出國預算166萬是34個中央機關裡的倒數第6你們很省啊對不對為什麼編那麼少你知道為什麼編那麼少嗎因為這是在公務預算裡面的對啊你知道為什麼因為公務預算編那麼少但是你的錢都編到哪邊去啊捐錢都編到哪去啊"},{"start":549.676,"end":561.099,"text":"所以你把就業安定基金當作小金庫114年的就業安定基金裡面媒體宣導跟業務費編2億1711萬比113年的1億6707萬漲幅高達30%然後呢旅運國外旅費編高達1074萬你難怪勞動部本部的預算公務預算編得這麼低啊博取美名啊"},{"start":578.722,"end":601.798,"text":"博取美名啊 然後就用小金庫來開始去搞啊我們並不是要博取美名啊我還是在告訴你部長一件事情我這到目前為止這件事情這樣不是算你的因為國人也不會算到你身上因為你剛上任算你也不合理可是今天如果說你是這種態度來面對救安利基金你跟我保證你會把救安利基金好好用誰相信你啊"},{"start":603.086,"end":625.844,"text":"根本就掩耳盜鈴嘛你在你的公務預算裡面編這麼低我們今天立法院看不到然後到Joy ID基金裡面狂編欸幾億幾億的編欸我們會來跟行政院爭取本部的預算我們會來跟行政院爭取本部的預算應該要增加因為過去本部的預算確實是分配的過少這就是結論啦要編什麼預算要出國還是要去養綠油油的媒體"},{"start":632.984,"end":635.992,"text":"就正大光明變大公務預算業不要濫用救援安定基金謝謝"}]}},{"id":"157829","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157829","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083608e7f84a1d0528752e45dd5fe0ad21242d33acae7c847dfd37aee9c616f299ce85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"14:09:55 - 14:29:14","影片長度":"00:19:19","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T14:09:55+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T14:29:14+08:00","duration":1159,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.79034375,"end":0.8072187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.957218750000003,"end":14.931593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.05409375,"end":14.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.977843750000002,"end":16.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.27221875,"end":22.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.71096875,"end":22.980968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.980968750000002,"end":23.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.01034375,"end":25.731593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.204093750000002,"end":26.507843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.94659375,"end":31.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.447843750000004,"end":35.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.78909375,"end":37.915343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.50596875,"end":44.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.57659375,"end":52.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.085968750000006,"end":53.929718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.43596875,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.95846875,"end":60.156593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.54471875,"end":63.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.164718750000006,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.97034375000001,"end":82.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.93784375,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.73346875,"end":95.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.07096875,"end":95.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.10471875,"end":95.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.18909375000001,"end":95.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.40846875000001,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.47596875,"end":96.28596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.96096875,"end":103.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.15471875,"end":100.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.61409375000001,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.95971875000001,"end":117.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.35159375,"end":109.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.20784375000001,"end":110.86596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.03346875000001,"end":135.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":137.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.20346875,"end":139.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.41409375,"end":141.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.06784375,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.75096875,"end":146.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.80534375000002,"end":148.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.15096875,"end":156.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.71534375000002,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.22034375,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.09784375,"end":181.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.96034375000002,"end":187.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.93409375000002,"end":189.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.60471875000002,"end":196.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.96221875,"end":197.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.04221875000002,"end":204.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.38284375,"end":208.87596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.20096875000002,"end":222.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.38471875000002,"end":220.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.41846875000002,"end":220.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.83159375000002,"end":223.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.45596875,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.51471875000001,"end":230.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.45909375000002,"end":231.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.43784375,"end":231.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.45471875,"end":231.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.47159375,"end":231.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.14659375000002,"end":240.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.25909375,"end":245.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.06846875000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.63346875000002,"end":250.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.12659375,"end":252.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.35846875000001,"end":254.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.33284375000002,"end":256.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.69534375,"end":258.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.97784375000003,"end":260.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.05346875000004,"end":261.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.74534375,"end":266.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.84159375,"end":267.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.83721875000003,"end":269.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.77784375000005,"end":276.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.59596875,"end":272.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.06846875,"end":273.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.25784375,"end":277.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.46846875,"end":286.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.02846875,"end":287.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.19284375,"end":287.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.31096875000003,"end":292.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.32284375,"end":311.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.45346875,"end":293.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.07784375,"end":294.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.09659375,"end":309.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.11346875000004,"end":309.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.03284375000004,"end":315.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.38659375000003,"end":318.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.28096875,"end":322.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.93471875,"end":318.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.96846875,"end":319.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.91284375000004,"end":328.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.62096875000003,"end":330.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.49409375000005,"end":332.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.19846875,"end":336.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.45096875,"end":339.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.48846875000004,"end":339.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.12971875,"end":341.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.34471875,"end":350.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.58784375000005,"end":354.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.44846875,"end":358.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.48096875000005,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.97034375000004,"end":366.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.14721875000004,"end":363.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.08346875,"end":368.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.05784375,"end":370.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.38659375000003,"end":373.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.18784375,"end":373.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.25096875,"end":380.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.20784375000005,"end":386.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.26159375000003,"end":391.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.93596875000003,"end":399.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.71534375000005,"end":408.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.06409375000004,"end":414.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.71284375000005,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.83096875,"end":421.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.03721875,"end":443.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.60284375000003,"end":445.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.85159375,"end":446.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.20159375000003,"end":448.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.41659375,"end":450.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.08284375000005,"end":456.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.02284375000005,"end":461.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.78159375,"end":467.04659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.36721875,"end":467.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.58659375,"end":468.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.46409375,"end":468.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.48096875000005,"end":468.73409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.73409375000006,"end":470.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.38346875,"end":473.12159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.64471875000004,"end":475.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.97346875000005,"end":488.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.55784375,"end":494.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.33346875,"end":494.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.38409375000003,"end":497.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.82659375000003,"end":504.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.73284375000003,"end":504.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.64409375,"end":512.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.00159375,"end":518.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.19471875,"end":521.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.89471875,"end":528.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.6953437500001,"end":532.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.55096875,"end":538.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.32659375,"end":540.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.84096875,"end":546.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.13534375,"end":548.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.8059687500001,"end":554.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.62784375,"end":555.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.18034375,"end":562.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.90596875,"end":558.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.39034375,"end":562.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.4240937500001,"end":565.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.84971875,"end":567.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.9509687500001,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.0772187499999,"end":571.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.05971875,"end":573.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.05096875,"end":575.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.6540937500001,"end":575.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.0590937500001,"end":577.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.10096875,"end":578.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.2865937500001,"end":581.6953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.6953437500001,"end":582.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.64034375,"end":582.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.6572187500001,"end":593.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.98034375,"end":595.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.7309687500001,"end":617.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":619.69784375,"end":627.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.29159375,"end":641.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.1184687500001,"end":628.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.1753437500001,"end":643.2890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.9978437500001,"end":645.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.9553437500001,"end":662.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":655.55721875,"end":656.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.6953437500001,"end":669.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.68159375,"end":670.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.20034375,"end":677.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.69721875,"end":682.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.9622187500001,"end":686.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.8940937500001,"end":695.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.78721875,"end":698.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.8584687500002,"end":701.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.7565937500001,"end":707.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.92034375,"end":708.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.4897187500001,"end":710.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.6159687500001,"end":717.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":717.16784375,"end":722.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.38221875,"end":722.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.22596875,"end":724.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.06534375,"end":726.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.88784375,"end":727.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.5247187500001,"end":732.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":733.50284375,"end":737.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":738.0928437500002,"end":742.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.22284375,"end":753.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.29721875,"end":759.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.8784687500001,"end":762.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.4353437500001,"end":760.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":761.92034375,"end":764.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.5147187500002,"end":771.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":772.18034375,"end":772.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.0578437500001,"end":777.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":777.63096875,"end":780.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.5290937500001,"end":782.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":782.59221875,"end":783.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.11096875,"end":786.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.37659375,"end":790.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":790.9622187500001,"end":794.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":794.23596875,"end":801.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.8972187500001,"end":808.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.27596875,"end":812.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":813.37221875,"end":814.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.5872187500001,"end":816.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.9834687500002,"end":820.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.08409375,"end":821.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.0122187500001,"end":823.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":824.08784375,"end":832.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":832.8459687500001,"end":833.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.90909375,"end":840.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":840.64221875,"end":846.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.25721875,"end":850.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":851.30721875,"end":856.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":857.21346875,"end":858.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.05284375,"end":867.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":867.7265937500001,"end":876.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":876.78846875,"end":882.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.0828437500002,"end":883.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.97721875,"end":884.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.1797187500001,"end":888.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.04409375,"end":891.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":892.12784375,"end":892.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":892.7522187500001,"end":897.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":896.63346875,"end":899.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.4097187500001,"end":897.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":899.0972187500001,"end":899.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.43471875,"end":899.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":899.97471875,"end":903.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.03721875,"end":921.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":921.0515937500002,"end":925.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":926.02971875,"end":936.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.29409375,"end":936.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":937.57221875,"end":939.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":939.96846875,"end":940.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":940.8459687500001,"end":946.7859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":946.7859687500002,"end":946.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":946.97159375,"end":947.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":947.0390937500001,"end":947.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.1740937500001,"end":947.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":947.4272187500001,"end":956.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":956.84346875,"end":958.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":956.8772187500001,"end":957.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":958.5478437500001,"end":966.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":966.8840937500001,"end":970.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":970.6978437500002,"end":971.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":972.97596875,"end":974.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":974.5959687500001,"end":977.5490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":976.38471875,"end":985.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":986.3915937500001,"end":992.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":993.0234687500001,"end":993.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":993.07409375,"end":998.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":999.5034687500001,"end":1002.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1002.20346875,"end":1014.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1014.64034375,"end":1028.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1028.96721875,"end":1032.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1032.51096875,"end":1040.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1034.58659375,"end":1035.6665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1040.5603437500001,"end":1040.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1040.5772187500002,"end":1043.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1043.9690937500002,"end":1047.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1048.39034375,"end":1048.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1049.09909375,"end":1049.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1050.5840937500002,"end":1058.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1057.82346875,"end":1063.3922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1063.8984687500001,"end":1066.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1067.10471875,"end":1069.7203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1071.0703437500001,"end":1074.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1073.9222187500002,"end":1082.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1078.19159375,"end":1079.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1082.96721875,"end":1085.8865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1086.62909375,"end":1093.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1093.14284375,"end":1100.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1094.7628437500002,"end":1096.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1101.96846875,"end":1105.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1105.61346875,"end":1107.2840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1107.75659375,"end":1109.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1109.86596875,"end":1114.1690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1114.3884687500001,"end":1115.0128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1115.1309687500002,"end":1118.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1118.5228437500002,"end":1119.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1119.2147187500002,"end":1122.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1124.02409375,"end":1124.9690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1124.9690937500002,"end":1125.4078437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1125.9478437500002,"end":1125.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1125.9815937500002,"end":1126.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1126.01534375,"end":1126.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1126.0659687500001,"end":1126.2684687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1126.2684687500002,"end":1126.6565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1126.6565937500002,"end":1126.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1126.70721875,"end":1128.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1128.4622187500001,"end":1131.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1130.4872187500002,"end":1132.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1132.22534375,"end":1133.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1132.76534375,"end":1135.1109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1134.5034687500001,"end":1152.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1138.95846875,"end":1139.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1140.79784375,"end":1141.0340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1153.0659687500001,"end":1159.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1157.8584687500002,"end":1158.11159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.586,"end":31.421,"text":"黃部長歡迎回良家希望今天不是震撼教育不過我看你的報告真的除了封面之外"},{"start":32.506,"end":44.502,"text":"薄薄三章本來以為今天會有大刀寇武的有點小失望而且更重要的我剛聽你說你說那個一些相關的這個法案的這個修改跟提出來要等到下會期啊"},{"start":45.706,"end":65.005,"text":"為什麼那麼久?這左院長不是講說上個禮拜就講說一個禮拜內霸凌案子各部都處理完嗎?最後一個禮拜啊已經太慢了啊現在緩霸凌已經變成風起雲湧變成一個運動沒有看見各個部會那麼多這個霸凌案是不是要再快一點點?現在火燒眉毛了可以等到你下會期再提法案嗎?"},{"start":65.325,"end":93.544,"text":"那個跟委員說明確實現在在霸凌防治的法規上面是不足的但這部分我們其實並沒有任何拖延禮拜一我們的治安署其實已經邀請相關的專家學者來提供意見我們現在會整中但確實這部法要修尤其是要在母法要定它其實涉及到蠻複雜的修法工程尤其是裡面相關的定義尤其是霸凌樣態的定義上面這事情"},{"start":94.798,"end":117.367,"text":"需要我們會積極但要很審慎而且下會期不要偷到不是什麼2月1號開始的會期我們絕對會很積極我也是善意提醒因為過幾天你再過段時間再來大家還是問你嘛因為外界的氣氛很大這個時間點要經得起考驗那我現在提醒你的現在在各個立法委員都接到很多啊你看各個部會裡面都有大家都在講"},{"start":119.079,"end":147.879,"text":"因為沉默以前很多人沉默了沉默變成常態所以霸凌就變成這種文化了現在已經大刀闊斧要趕快改我最近接到很多案子我問一個比較重要的樣態今天我特別要提醒的就是我們的女性特別是懷孕的女性我接到一個我們政府機關的一個個案他在懷孕准媽媽結果那段時間疫情連要在家裡面連要在家裡面居家上班都被他的主管刁難了"},{"start":150.185,"end":164.475,"text":"部長我今天能不能非常明確的從你這邊得到一個答案你看一下不是只有單獨這個個案你看104人力營覽最近公佈的10月份職場性別友善調查發現61.9的女性受訪者"},{"start":165.276,"end":186.936,"text":"他說 最近這一年 公司最近這一年因為性別而受到不平等待遇 超過有五成 認為有什麼升遷的問題 懷孕的問題 結婚育兒的問題 連要請個特別休假的這個問題都受到不公平的待遇 我今天很明確的對你做一個要求勞動部對於女性在職場受到不公平待遇 特別是"},{"start":187.967,"end":196.838,"text":"有身孕的女性請假問題還有她公平的這個問題你做出一個比較明確的指引跟規範可不可以那個跟跟文說明齁"},{"start":198.106,"end":224.304,"text":"其實你現在講的是就業歧視的部分其實就業歧視的部分其實我們有相關的法規那只要市政很明確該開法的我想我們就會來處理所以就這個個案剛剛來檢舉這個個案可能最近就有可能開法了那現在更重要從制度面去解決問題所以部長我今天就提醒你針對這個除了法令的這個落實之外要盡量重視這個問題好不好當然來另外我問你剛剛這個救安基金啊"},{"start":225.7,"end":247.552,"text":"變成小金庫這個問題你剛剛已經回答過你說他有主要用個三個用途嗎對不對在舊法裡面三個用途那現在很多今天很多立委都問你了隱藏費不符合買咖啡都不符合垃圾清印也不符合你現在該做什麼動作你這好像回答了一句社會觀感不佳你是不是應該回去看一下預算法預算法25條跟95條如果預算項目不對"},{"start":255.353,"end":264.782,"text":"你亂去挪用這個錢是應該去追回來的吧對不對而且老實講你現在不是有社會觀感不佳你這筆錢老實講連審計部都過不了"},{"start":267.91,"end":285.98,"text":"那個跟委員報告齁其實這部分目前檢調已經有相關的在查查了那我們會全力的配合那確實現在在名目上面如果其實有不符合的地方當然如果查包括政風等等等我們絕對不會護短"},{"start":287.481,"end":314.297,"text":"部長所以現在兩個大的問題嘛一個是有人去檢取了他已經進入有沒有貪污秩序條例的問題對對對沒有兩個問題一個當然如果是檢方那邊調查司法體系有沒有貪污秩序條例這本來就是要辦的嘛第二個更重要的是你這一邊啊你已經發現他社會觀感不佳的同時他的項目又嚴重的這個不對那你有責任去把他追回來啊不是就講一個社會觀感不佳預算法的規定裡面25跟90跟95條你有責任啊"},{"start":317.19,"end":321.843,"text":"我先提醒部長你回答之前我跟你講你這筆預算是有可能審計單位根本就過不了的案子對不對"},{"start":323.956,"end":350.764,"text":"有可能啊 審計單位敢合這個完全違反預算法的錢嗎所以你是不是有責任一個不只以後不能再發生包括被濫用的這個不合規定的應該去把這筆錢追回來啊委員我們會在名目上面去做一個完整的檢視不只檢視啦你自己去追當然要該採取什麼法律上面的工作我們當然就會做我跟委員說在接下來在檢視救安基金這件事情上面我沒有"},{"start":352.845,"end":358.41,"text":"就該怎麼該就該對啦你不要直接講說該怎麼說對啦包括要不要去吹這是你其中的一項"},{"start":360.906,"end":385.913,"text":"這筆錢不能夠只有欸如果有法規授權我們去做法規授權我們去做的話當然我們就要該做的去做主計單位財主單位都可以但是前提是先要要先確認他是否有不法但是確認不法是已經到了貪汙的狀況了嘛那預算項目預算法裡面是另外規定啊所以他是雙軌都要做那個因為現在其實很多相關的計畫他確實我們看到他確實有走走過"},{"start":387.313,"end":414.606,"text":"就案令基金撥付的程序他有走過這個程序所以如果要去認定他不法或該被追回也會有相關的法定的程序這不是我一念之間或者是任何首長一念之間說我覺得這不妥我就可以追回的他經過了他的法定的程序所以這時候司法單位有沒有認定他不法或者是有問題這也是這裡面很重要的判準"},{"start":415.826,"end":443.538,"text":"這不是我能夠一念之間說我喜歡怎樣我不喜歡怎樣我就可以說我去把你給追回的現在司法單位認定了就是當然有人去檢舉包括鍾小平去檢舉了習明春或是某些人嘛對不對所以司法單位已經在查我知道你剛剛講的如果是涉及到貪污自罪條例那一塊的當然後來一定請人要去追嘛還有這形式上的責任嘛另外預算法上面明定了你過不過得了審計單位跟處計單位那一關包括請人要去追你回去要再研究一下好不好就這兩個事情很重要不要只有講社會觀感不佳第二個"},{"start":444.599,"end":472.947,"text":"還有一個很重要的立法的部分你剛提說下會期提了你是要立一個專法是不是現在其實各界有可能有提到有人提專法有人提專章有各種不同的修現在有不同的修法的路徑我們現在我是持開放態度但是每一種做法有他的優缺點所以現在也在綜合評估中那現有的像吹哨者保護法你支不支持這不是我主管的吧"},{"start":473.683,"end":488.304,"text":"不是 我說你個人是不支持吹哨者保護法你以前在立法院應該是暫省的對不對你現在當了勞動部部長欸 吹哨者保護法跟你很相關啊如果謝宜芬這個事謝宜蓉這個事情如果之前有一個消費者保護法就不會搞到出人命啊對不對"},{"start":489.588,"end":503.947,"text":"被霸凌者 吹哨者有受到一定的這個保護 很多霸凌事件就沒有了因為我現在的身份是勞動部長那我會就我的職權跟職責裡面的工作我來負責任的回答黃副長"},{"start":504.908,"end":532.25,"text":"對於勞工可能會被霸凌對於你勞動部的人有可能像那位吳先生被霸凌你是不是應該就要支持催照者保護法因為霸凌法制上面的不健全所以我們當然現在在霸凌防治的法制的話我們會積極的來做這個可能沒有衝突啊你要去遞專章跟專法可是這個是一個很重要的法律對 但是這是我主責下面的工作我說我現在不太方便去對其他怎麼不方便哪一個勞動部部長不支持催照者要被保護"},{"start":533.564,"end":554.832,"text":"不是只有存在著保護法你要去重視你要去支持法令還多嘞包括考試院跟人事總局那個公務員那個保障法的修法你也要支持啊要不然你的你的導致部的員工有受到有受到這個保障嗎升遷法啊這個主管以前都不用接受考核的啊以後升遷法裡面也要訂啊是不是這樣"},{"start":556.426,"end":581.398,"text":"我現在勞動部部長我現在在做我的職權內的事情我可以來做負責任的回應啦那個黃部長這就是你的職權啦全世界的民主國家的勞動部的部長哪一個不保障我們的吹哨者不保護我們公務員這本來就是要集齊啊不是那個我尊重委員的想法但是你現在就勞基法"},{"start":582.777,"end":595.09,"text":"跟委員報告老七法跟慈安法目前對於檢舉人的部分都已經有相關的申訴保障制度那如果有一些迫害的部分的話都也有處罰的機制目前是有的現行機制如果夠的話"},{"start":596.769,"end":615.274,"text":"那謝宜蓉這個勞業總這事情不幸會發生為什麼現在職場有那麼多各個部會像宇鶴春巡風騎引擎有這麼多案子但是要去補破網要去補牆啊黃部長我提醒你一個點好不好現在我在跟你談的是一個有沒有要保障所有的勞動部的員工各部會還有這個勞工的勞動部部長"},{"start":619.738,"end":643.064,"text":"今天你今天你有沒有沒有點這個頭現在人民是在看這個新的這個勞動部長是有重視人權嗎有反霸凌嗎那個跟張榮說明對於一般的勞工這當然是我們主責的對象我們當然盡力的來保護對於勞動部下的公務員我們也會盡力來保護這部分我可以"},{"start":644.596,"end":670.058,"text":"我的態度是非常清楚的我很期待新任的這個勞動部長是有擔當而且是重視大家權利的他要全力透過所有的法令跟制度面去避免所有霸凌在發生的這個是我問你的一個重點當然這是我們的期待我最後再問不只是專法跟法律面要去強化包括吹哨者保護法公務員吹哨者保護法公務員保護法跟升遷法還有你管的所有跟你勞動有關的這個法令另外一個"},{"start":671.26,"end":698.049,"text":"你到製度面去解決這個問題你沒有發現現在由單位去調查現在看起來好像都是撐過鐵油的東西他出現幾個問題嘛利益衝突跟偏袒問題專業性也不夠調查過程這個透明度是低的政績收集也是不足的忽視了受害者這個需求很多都處理時間是非常強的後續跟進也不足單位文化業問題最終還有後面這個吹哨者場場身份都被曝光了"},{"start":698.928,"end":727.125,"text":"所以我今天提了四個具體的這個要求來我們看這四個部長你應該似曾相識這個我們一起去修這個電內法的時候很像對不對怎麼樣讓內部的這個內部原單位的調查不要讓那個吹哨者或是霸凌者的身份會去曝光然後這個外部的人員要怎麼進來讓他是專業的我至少提了四個要求來讓他們看看第一個以後不只是勞動部喔所有部會是不是要做這些事情以後"},{"start":728.824,"end":745.871,"text":"規定外部的專家比例要大於二分之一不要自己人調查自己人右手查左手查出來老是利益良善外部的專家比例要大於二分之一第二個審查紀錄要能夠公開透明讓受害者"},{"start":746.391,"end":746.732,"text":"委員你剛才講這點針對就是說這個"},{"start":765.575,"end":780.242,"text":"如果有職場霸凌的調查要怎麼讓他的專業更加專業化這當然我同意這個方向那第4點講到說會來規範職場霸凌的防治方式這是我們現在在做法治化的工作"},{"start":781.587,"end":809.728,"text":"那這個這個審查的制度要公算的就是第4項我們已經有共識了你要專法或是專章的嘛第一項呢外部的這個專家比例要大於二分之一我跟你講何佩珊何部長那時候黨的地方因為我在臉書上面發生這個事情第一時間我就發了新聞跟臉書我說你外部的委員一定要多找一些你不要讓人家覺得說你自己人在查自己那後來調查當然出了兩個問題就是外部的這個外部的這個專家人數太少"},{"start":810.208,"end":811.348,"text":"這個跟文說明在我們都應該要讓這個調查的過程裡面更加專業"},{"start":834.074,"end":855.897,"text":"當然我認為都應該要有外部的專家可是確實這個專家比例要到多少現在其實很多很多的公務機關裡面現在坦白說都面對他們現在都要找外部專家找不到的問題就是現在你答應你那個你說原來那個調查報告有問題對不對你下禮拜要拿來你現在調查的這個外部專家比例是多少"},{"start":857.25,"end":882.353,"text":"你不會搞到搞到沒有公信力吧又就是關關相護吧當然我們不會關關相護你現在外部的專家有幾個你現在下禮拜拿來的你最新的調查你外部專家有幾個我們那個跟委員說明我們有外部委員的參與啦然後這個我們絕對不會關關相護有啊上次何佩珊主導的你們上次那個被你認為有問題的就是也有外部委員只是人太少啊"},{"start":883.12,"end":903.804,"text":"我們不會關關相護不是,你的比例是多高?你這是有幾個?你這是有幾個外部職員?那個委員,重點是這份報告會是由我來負責任我是召集人你不要弄到跟合佩山一樣火又燒起來又不要換一個新的勞動部長,不會啦我是召集人,然後我會來負責你負責,那以後能不能建立一個制度以後就是外部的專家比例大概二分之一"},{"start":905.624,"end":923.982,"text":"欸這個你有沒有覺得似曾相識這個是前陣子你還當立委的時候我們兩個共同修法的方向啊那時候電內法你不是贊成的嗎你說電內法要有外部專家啊民間的代表二分之一欸我們等於所通過的咧張委員因為你現在到了勞動從立委變成勞動部長反而倒退路喔張委員因為電價審議委員全台灣只有一個電價審議委員會啦"},{"start":926.104,"end":934.611,"text":"但是現在我們要來成立各個調查小組這個是每個單位都要成立調查小組他的狀態跟全臺灣只有一個電價審議委員會這真的是不一樣"},{"start":937.625,"end":955.54,"text":"我們會盡力讓他更專業啦你今天意思是說倒退路還是怎樣立委的時候都比較立委的主張現在當了部長反而倒退路我們討論的狀況你是太謹慎嗎還是我們討論的狀況那個是真的是當時我們修法的時候是全台灣只有一個電價生意委員會"},{"start":957.021,"end":971.775,"text":"陳同仁只有一個部長這應該放出四孩皆准的吧就是不要避免自己人查自己人觀光項目就是外面大家可以慶福的專家學者進來外部有人進來二分之一這有什麼困難這個有爭議喔你剛剛意思是什麼找不到人"},{"start":973.018,"end":991.669,"text":"你是否定否定否定要有多一點學者專家還是我沒有否定我沒有否定但是現在各單位其實現在都面現在我都知道我聽聽聞到很多公務機關因為現在都要成立調查小組那這個這個這個安全防護小組裡面都在找外部專家所以他"},{"start":993.306,"end":1012.418,"text":"都已經別人找不到你自己勞動部現在火燒沒頭了你自己先顧好自己二分之一吧你現在會不會下禮拜提出來真的沒有二分之一好第二個地方來來來二分之一你今天不點頭然後講全民會有一個會有一個評論的喔部長你今天回答這個問題都是很重要的我認為媒體跟全民會去檢視說我們的勞動部長說"},{"start":1014.599,"end":1015.459,"text":"我們當然會公布最後的調查報告結果"},{"start":1043.951,"end":1046.712,"text":"我要向你表達說這個事情的調查真的跟電業跟電價審議是不太一樣的這裡面涉及到很多人的隱私"},{"start":1071.124,"end":1084.555,"text":"那這些強調我們要強調一個暴露我還要求你吹哨者跟被霸凌者都一定一定要做到啊你怎麼會因為要保護這個結果你的時間被拖延後不夠透明我只是要跟你強調說"},{"start":1087.196,"end":1113.874,"text":"這個相關的霸凌的調查真的跟這個電價審議是很不一樣的狀況非常重要啦兩個都非常重要就這次你們發生這個事情欸不要說一個部長下台了一條人命你這次的審查過程裡面能夠不公開透明嗎不能夠快一點公布給大家看嗎我看前面都盯著你啊部長是不是這樣你下禮拜來報告那個如果又有問題的話搞不好又換掉一個部長"},{"start":1114.494,"end":1114.814,"text":"報告當然會上網阿"},{"start":1126.862,"end":1152.42,"text":"報告直接公佈當然一定是上網啊當天就直接上網不用等兩個禮拜是不是報告為什麼要等兩個禮拜報告當天公佈當然當然就上網啊就當天報告下禮拜來立法院報告的時候同時上網讓前名可以檢視報告當然要上網啊當然OK大家就等著下禮拜拭目以待希望下禮拜不是火越燒越大是止血而且讓我們反霸凌進入一個新的里程碑好不好共同來捍衛我們讓我們所有的"},{"start":1153.24,"end":1153.381,"text":"主席"}]}},{"id":"157830","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157830","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360836813a0e0d4bd8ee45dd5fe0ad21242d33acae7c847dfd320cac61ede387e4d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"14:29:21 - 14:42:00","影片長度":"00:12:39","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T14:29:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T14:42:00+08:00","duration":759,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.126593750000001,"end":11.961593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.344093750000003,"end":22.879718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.38596875,"end":29.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.96721875,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.57409375,"end":38.877218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.48471875,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.994093750000005,"end":54.807218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.06034375,"end":60.578468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.73034375,"end":62.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.67096875,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.03971875,"end":83.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.22034375000001,"end":85.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.05971875,"end":90.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.44721875,"end":95.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":96.10034375000001,"end":96.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.02846875,"end":97.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.61846875,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.24971875000001,"end":112.68846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.85284375,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.39284375000001,"end":114.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.42221875000001,"end":115.43909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.43909375000001,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.22784375,"end":118.18971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.51034375,"end":127.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.39909375000002,"end":140.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.39721875,"end":141.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.76409375,"end":146.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.72534375,"end":149.50971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.40409375000002,"end":165.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.37596875,"end":181.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.89284375000003,"end":183.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.14159375,"end":184.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.52096875,"end":187.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.22534375,"end":187.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.44846875000002,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.81034375000002,"end":204.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.53909375,"end":206.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.53034375000001,"end":206.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.47534375,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.49221875,"end":208.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.45409375000003,"end":214.78221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.20409375000003,"end":217.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.93784375,"end":220.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.05971875,"end":224.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.00846875000002,"end":228.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.20596875,"end":231.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.03284375,"end":231.64034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.16346875000002,"end":232.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.00284375,"end":235.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.23034375,"end":239.23409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":240.12846875000002,"end":240.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.00596875000002,"end":249.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.63784375,"end":250.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.01284375000003,"end":272.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.96721875000003,"end":273.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.22034375000004,"end":275.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.41409375,"end":280.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.21909375,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.13034375,"end":288.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.21721875000003,"end":310.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.29471875,"end":313.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.46721875000003,"end":332.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.51909375,"end":335.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.97846875000005,"end":337.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.91909375,"end":345.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.35659375,"end":346.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.16659375,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.25034375,"end":371.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.92221875,"end":380.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.79471875,"end":378.75659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.33034375,"end":379.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.32596875,"end":387.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":387.58221875000004,"end":390.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.78846875000005,"end":404.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.91284375000004,"end":410.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.79784375,"end":412.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.87784375,"end":419.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.39159375,"end":420.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.50534375,"end":428.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.82471875000005,"end":434.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.13596875,"end":436.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.27909375,"end":437.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.22409375,"end":439.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.64159375,"end":445.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":447.21846875000006,"end":455.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.40346875,"end":451.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.55909375000005,"end":462.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.47346875000005,"end":464.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.36784375,"end":468.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.91596875000005,"end":471.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.70409375,"end":474.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.37846875,"end":477.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.03659375,"end":477.05346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.05346875000004,"end":477.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.08721875000003,"end":477.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.13346875,"end":479.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":480.07409375000003,"end":482.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.92596875000004,"end":483.53346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.12409375000004,"end":486.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":487.17846875000004,"end":487.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.47784375000003,"end":488.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.57471875000005,"end":489.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.41846875000005,"end":508.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":509.50409375000004,"end":510.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.97221875,"end":518.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.5872187499999,"end":519.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.3928437500001,"end":528.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":526.2778437500001,"end":528.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.7078437499999,"end":528.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.77534375,"end":528.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.8090937500001,"end":528.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.8428437499999,"end":531.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.3234687500001,"end":533.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.6984687500001,"end":537.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.2590937500001,"end":540.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.97596875,"end":546.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.0678437500001,"end":554.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.06659375,"end":559.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.84221875,"end":563.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.29721875,"end":573.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.0847187500001,"end":580.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.0247187500001,"end":596.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.41034375,"end":599.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.9540937500001,"end":606.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.32846875,"end":613.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.84221875,"end":613.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.96034375,"end":615.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.6984687500001,"end":616.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.4197187500001,"end":623.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.35534375,"end":625.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.04284375,"end":627.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.5065937500001,"end":631.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":631.98284375,"end":639.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.3403437500001,"end":643.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.4365937499999,"end":652.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.19471875,"end":656.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.02971875,"end":657.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.83534375,"end":661.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":661.37909375,"end":667.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.13784375,"end":670.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.34346875,"end":687.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.8390937500001,"end":688.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":688.9697187500001,"end":689.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.2565937500001,"end":689.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.89784375,"end":691.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.28159375,"end":693.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.4584687500001,"end":693.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.6272187500001,"end":693.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.52159375,"end":701.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.96346875,"end":710.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.16034375,"end":731.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.4272187500001,"end":737.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.27846875,"end":740.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.4509687500001,"end":754.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":754.86659375,"end":755.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.28846875,"end":756.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.3134687500001,"end":759.0178437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.427,"end":10.999,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請勞動部紅部長"},{"start":21.523,"end":45.672,"text":"黃委好部長好部長這個換了身份今天第4以部長的身份來跟你就以委員跟部長身份來質詢部長我想先就教一件事情上禮拜傳出一個消息你一直認為說是禮拜一要來排這個專報是誰給你的消息不是我當時是認為我當時是覺得這禮拜我就要來所以其實我應該要在"},{"start":47.488,"end":62.034,"text":"週末就對於大家各呃週末前就應該對業務報告對各當各司俗的業務有一個進一步的掌握好部長謝謝哦因為我一開始一誤以為你認為是禮拜一啦那我要提醒你說如果有人跟你講禮拜一的話他傳遞了錯誤的消息"},{"start":62.754,"end":78.245,"text":"好,那你當剛剛上任部長我也希望說你能得到正確的消息不要被蒙蔽啊所以說才特別提這個問題那既然是你自己自發性的覺得要提早準備好那我就沒有意見了好,那我們進到主題那其實今天很多委員關心的是我們所謂的就業安利基金的部分"},{"start":78.985,"end":97.534,"text":"請6檔"},{"start":101.65,"end":104.835,"text":"跟委員報告我們在105年到113年總共墊付了4億3000萬元那目前歸墊的是5827萬元一成大約一成"},{"start":115.478,"end":139.776,"text":"所以這顛覆的比例很低嘛所以我們就講說今天就業安定基金我們之所以它叫基金你當過委員很清楚我們在看預算的時候基金的目的不就是能夠有進有出才叫基金嗎如果一直付出去那就是供付預算了吧所以問一下部長我先想請教一下部長說我們還是講當然第一時間必須用就業安定基金來顛覆這個我沒有意見但是問題是後續你的基金一直在付給這種事情一直在"},{"start":140.536,"end":164.978,"text":"只要有人擺爛付不出罰款付不出機票然後我們就用救安定基金來讓他回國讓他回去那這沒辦法解決這個問題啊那我知道之前大概105年2015年的時候2015年左右的時候有提過說要去跟所謂的母國就是移工的母國來追討但是後續也不了了之我想問一下新部長上來之後對於這種救安定基金的虧損問題你們有沒有辦法解決"},{"start":168.75,"end":169.37,"text":"這個會有一個代帳處理的程序"},{"start":190.872,"end":219.972,"text":"跟委員報告那我想那個捐安定費捐安定金之間支出的墊付的款項那後面如果沒有辦法收回的話我們按照行政程序去執行呢最後也會抵抵的代償先部長來我想要提出一些思考啦如果這些移工他就是付不出錢或他就是不願意付的話應該有什麼樣的代償機制吧他們要怎麼樣去做這件事情就像那個working holiday一樣嘛"},{"start":221.092,"end":237.423,"text":"他不付這個罰款那是不是他能夠派工給他幫忙政府做一些比較基本的工作做完之後再讓他回去後來這錢就一直這樣子吃下去那個跟委員報告因為其實現在其實我們這都是按照舊法60條來做執行"},{"start":240.165,"end":255.937,"text":"那這個有他的法規要求的有他法規要求的程序所以我們現在只能按照這個舊法60號沒關係部長我是提供這個建議給你參考不然從以前到現在這個錢就越花越多然後就是這樣子沒完沒倒下去我覺得這不是一個辦法了"},{"start":256.678,"end":280.285,"text":"那再回到救安基金大家今天不斷的質詢說為什麼可以拿去買咖啡機為什麼可以去買垃圾桶為什麼可以拿去打掃當然依照你們的第1條裡面是促進國民就業提供理事勞工扶持跟處理外國人騙雇的相關管理事務這是他們救安基金的你們的核心的價值核心的目的支用上面這樣子那第5條裡面的用途有一項叫做管理及總務支出我猜想啦"},{"start":293.262,"end":308.989,"text":"跟委員報告因為這些所定的不管是職業訓練就業服務創業協助等等他這是一個對民眾的直接服務而這些直接服務必須要有行政管理才能夠讓這些服務能夠得以遂行所以他是在所謂的相關的範圍概念之內"},{"start":310.376,"end":330.758,"text":"所以是在管理總共支出支出這個項目在你們的在你們報帳的時候你們去申請的時候你們是用哪一條項目來去報所謂的咖啡機也好或是打掃用品也好這些被媒體寫出來的這些奇奇怪怪的支出就因為救安基金當初收的目的就是希望能夠所謂保障本國勞工或讓本國勞工的職能能夠提升嘛"},{"start":331.218,"end":349.907,"text":"他的當初目的是這樣嘛但是後來你變成使用上跑去用看起來是比較享受的事情那這跟一開始的這個支出辦法就很大的落差了所以今天講說特別把11條指出來就是說我要問一下部長也問一下你們部內如果真的要做這個改革你們可以把這個拿掉啊"},{"start":351.257,"end":371.149,"text":"跟委員報告這個部分如果拿掉的話變成我們所有的原來在這裡面包括為了維持包括訓練場或者是就業服務據點這個部分連這基本的營運維持我們都沒有辦法從救安基金來支的話那除非我們可以爭取得到公務預算否則在廣義的認定他還是在促進國民就業裡面的一部分"},{"start":371.997,"end":389.117,"text":"如果他在處理國民就業如果因為處理國民就業我需要喝咖啡那你就會報在那個相關項目裡面嗎那就可以用用這個所謂的所謂的管理級總務職出來報啦我們有不合宜我們也承認阿但是不是所有的包括我們的這些建設都是那個不合宜這部分要上線跟委員說明齁確實"},{"start":390.879,"end":410.354,"text":"就是說他其實相關的程序他有走過相關的程序但就像剛才說到說其實可能會有些訓練場他會有他的行政支出費用那這個訓練場的目的當然是促進國民就業所以這裡面的行政的費用他會用這個方式去報進來主要的原因是在這個地方"},{"start":411.823,"end":436.406,"text":"好所以部長意思說這個東西你們認為這個所謂的管理及總務總務支出並沒有拿掉的必要性就對了就就法規面來說因為現在真的會有蠻多的支出但我就是說合不合以社會觀感好不好我們會來檢視可是這些訓練相關的計劃包括他的場館的運營他的目的是要"},{"start":437.367,"end":444.966,"text":"促進國民就業在目的上面確實他的目的是在做這件事那做這件事的同時他會有一些行政上面的支出"},{"start":447.37,"end":474.083,"text":"行政支出我知道啦但行政支出你的用途裡面就已經包含在裡面了嘛所以說我要實施職業訓練及就業資訊等事項所以我自己會認為說當然你說當然當然現在大家看到所謂買咖啡等等等的呃大家會有不同的觀感來沒關係部長對可是他會有必要的行政支出部長那我請教一件事情我們就針對一件事情就好了好舉例來講就是以咖啡機為例你們現在有啟動內部調查還是全部都交由檢調來調查"},{"start":476.431,"end":487.604,"text":"像這個事情就我跟黃委員說明喔檢調現在是針對標案或者是採購的部分其實有在調查了"},{"start":488.53,"end":508.086,"text":"那就這些部分因為標案或者是採購的部分它就會涉及到一些形式上面的責任所以他們是有希望說我們其實在這些部分上面這個如果一些內部的調查的部分可以先暫緩那以他們來作為最優先"},{"start":509.591,"end":532.832,"text":"好部長因為我們希望說當然司法進行調查了但我們後續如果司法沒有調查出什麼結果我當然不知道他們司法是什麼調查了我們會全力配合司法的調查我們希望說讓民眾知道到底像比如說你這個什麼咖啡精有的沒有的到底是用什麼科目你把它支出的嗎我們在在合一性上我們會做一輪機制的檢討因為我們看到因為其實我剛剛這樣講"},{"start":534.944,"end":563.521,"text":"剛剛你們的這個不好意思剛剛是是是代理署長提到說要爭取公務預算我們看到明年度預算自己勞動部本來的預算就2900億左右2859億左右那救安基金也只有200億元的收入啦但是我是覺得說像這些有的沒有的支出理論上就應該使用公務支出就好了不應該一直就占用一直去用我們所謂的這個救安基金這麼好用當然就這麼好用是過去這些年你們便宜形式去用了那"},{"start":564.441,"end":580.871,"text":"當然發生就發生了嘛現在跟進行調查我們期待是西部長上來的未來像這樣子的基金這樣子基金使用如果不符合項目不符合他原來用來保障國民就業的部分的時候你在使用上你就應該去回到本預算裡面了你該行政支出就是行政支出啊"},{"start":581.872,"end":595.968,"text":"我們會跟盡量來跟行政院爭取在本部的預算裡面能夠擴編啦但確實是過去長期因為本部的預算都相當有限所以跟這三個名目下面相關的業務才會去用到救安基金的使用"},{"start":596.468,"end":624.884,"text":"好在最後這個主題站起來了我想問一下這個所謂的現在公務員公務機關這些霸凌案件後續的主管機關請問一下勞動勞工當然像是勞動部啊有時候職業安全衛生法等等的是勞動部主管那到底未來像公務員這一塊是勞動部主管還是誰主管目前其實在公務員保護的一些相關法令他的法公務員的法體系確實現在比較是在考試院下"},{"start":626.109,"end":643.795,"text":"所以未來的主管機關不一定是你們?你們的主管機關不討論了嗎?經過這一兩個禮拜這樣子動盪之後目前我說目前在公務員人員的法體系是在考試院那這部分不是我們說我們想怎樣就能夠怎樣的事情啊"},{"start":644.525,"end":644.945,"text":"主席坐下了"},{"start":673.396,"end":693.053,"text":"指案法裡面我想最嚴重的問題是這樣啦現在當然有指案法有一些依循標準包含說我們公務員相關也是依照什麼指案法去訂立相關的準則但是最麻煩是什麼沒有霸凌故意就是什麼叫霸凌故意什麼叫要件這部分在未來修法裡面你們會處理嗎當然這是重點那我們稍微開始討論這個事情現在已經在討論禮拜一已經召開相關會議了"},{"start":694.571,"end":710.319,"text":"好那我們希望這件事情齁能夠盡快的至少勞工的所謂職業安全衛生法勞工的準則定出來之後可能後續我不知道公務員的部分到底是歸你們還是以後歸考試員那至少有一個準則因為我知道現行階段公務員的部分是參考勞工的東西嘛"},{"start":711.386,"end":730.379,"text":"對,所以我們現在包括我們的職安署其實在於對於不管是勞動部法清開或者是霸凌的部分我也希望他其實能夠參考國外的一些案例跟做法那能夠更專業那當然我說公務員裡面如果要訂立的話我們勞動部我們也很願意一起參與討論提供我們在這部分累積的專業"},{"start":731.482,"end":758.661,"text":"好這叫拜託部長因為就像我們這個上一位部長跟這個分子長案件一樣第一份調查報告就如同那時候在記者會講的你會到他們按照法律就會講說最後因為沒有霸凌故意認為他沒有涉嫌重大所以這部分到底怎麼樣叫做霸凌故意這中間因果關係要怎麼建立起來我們希望部長能夠把這部分來強化可以嗎當然謝謝好謝謝黃健庭委員"}]}},{"id":"157832","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157832","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083605c97b38aaf3e869fe45dd5fe0ad21242f04b39567fafe61e141228277b1494e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"14:53:27 - 15:03:27","影片長度":"00:10:00","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T14:53:27+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T15:03:27+08:00","duration":600,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.970968750000001,"end":7.810343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.67846875,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.56846875,"end":36.143468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.63284375,"end":44.884718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.37409375,"end":45.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.133468750000006,"end":52.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.883468750000006,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.03534375,"end":53.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.55409375,"end":55.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.258468750000006,"end":74.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.80409375,"end":87.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.79846875000001,"end":84.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.45221875,"end":85.95846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.62909375000001,"end":93.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.34096875,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.13409375,"end":98.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.88471875,"end":100.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.62284375,"end":101.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.65221875,"end":108.68909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.27971875,"end":114.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.89909375,"end":120.28221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.28221875000001,"end":120.31596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.17659375000001,"end":121.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.19346875000001,"end":125.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.42471875000001,"end":127.01534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.63971875000001,"end":128.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.54659375,"end":131.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.14971875,"end":138.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.08096875,"end":141.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.52784375000002,"end":142.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.48971875,"end":166.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.02534375000002,"end":144.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.46534375000002,"end":163.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.42284375,"end":190.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.81159375000001,"end":188.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.86221875,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.89971875,"end":204.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.61909375000002,"end":245.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.79409375,"end":247.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.43096875,"end":251.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.70471875,"end":254.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.28221875000003,"end":277.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.65409375,"end":279.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.98721875,"end":286.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.58534375,"end":316.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.43284375,"end":327.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.22596875,"end":318.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.03471875,"end":327.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.45221875000004,"end":328.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.46909375,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.70284375,"end":345.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.74909375000004,"end":346.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.58846875,"end":349.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.42346875000004,"end":357.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.27034375,"end":360.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.45971875000004,"end":362.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.64096875,"end":365.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.26909375,"end":371.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.00659375000004,"end":372.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.20471875000004,"end":374.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.25096875,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.35159375,"end":383.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.83596875,"end":384.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.12284375,"end":384.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.44346875,"end":394.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.44596875,"end":395.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.77909375,"end":413.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.55284375,"end":414.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.86909375000005,"end":415.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.99971875,"end":417.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.12596875,"end":419.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.30721875,"end":419.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.53909375,"end":420.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.55596875000003,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.02721875000003,"end":439.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.51909375,"end":442.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.05471875,"end":462.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.50284375,"end":464.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.89096875,"end":464.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.48159375,"end":464.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.58284375000005,"end":464.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.63346875,"end":475.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.37471875000006,"end":473.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.20159375000003,"end":477.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.41221875,"end":479.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.48346875000004,"end":482.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.12846875,"end":492.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.87784375,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.02534375000005,"end":495.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.54409375000006,"end":496.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.56096875000003,"end":499.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.48034375000003,"end":508.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.79096875000005,"end":511.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.60909375,"end":514.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.51596875,"end":525.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.36221875,"end":529.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.9734687499999,"end":532.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.9097187500001,"end":535.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.8459687500001,"end":542.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.6728437500001,"end":536.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.41909375,"end":540.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.10221875,"end":545.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.8190937500001,"end":547.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.71346875,"end":547.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.6922187499999,"end":550.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.00409375,"end":551.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.21471875,"end":572.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.2622187500001,"end":579.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.9740937500001,"end":591.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.33534375,"end":598.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.31284375,"end":600.59534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.01,"end":6.59,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請洪孫恆部長"},{"start":16.636,"end":45.454,"text":"以往立法院叫洪委員會有兩個人回應現在只剩我回應了洪委員高森洪部長不過該瞭解跟確認一下你的上任你的上台其實說實在話是一個公務人員的離開跟大家不想看到的一個悲劇發生而北分署署長到目前其實你說他拍了影片之後人間蒸發沒有再出現那"},{"start":46.586,"end":74.178,"text":"現在調查報告今天上午你做的說明是說要一個禮拜內才會出來下週對我可不可以請教一下政府持續在進行在何沛山部長在卸任之前他也承諾是說他會在一個禮拜內再提出過相關的一個行政報告那為什麼你上任之後又進行了什麼樣的一個什麼樣的調整什麼樣的了解讓這個調查報告又要再延後一週"},{"start":74.958,"end":93.561,"text":"是想說從頭過身就過還是想要拉長時間讓大家淡忘這件事情當然不是是那來就說明一下你認為是說再過從這件事情11月4號到下週變成是一個月的時間了今天一個月剛好期滿"},{"start":96.234,"end":118.651,"text":"部長你認為我們的行政調查作業拖一個多月你可以接受嗎?如果說當初還是洪委員站在這個位置的時候他能夠接受行政部門一個多月的拖延嗎?那個洪委員我想向你說明因為我們是重啟調查是重啟調查會有重啟調查前的準備作業所以是誰負責重啟調查?"},{"start":121.206,"end":124.75,"text":"在上週我們其實很快就只是重啟調查的作業所以這週正在做相關的訪談"},{"start":139.107,"end":165.218,"text":"我們是重新我們我們是讓大家可以是重新的訪談那甚至也增加了一些邀請來受訪談的對象是就是希望能夠讓調查的過程的輪廓可以更加的清晰尤其是能夠更從這個無性公務員他是一個被壓迫者的角度他到底經歷了什麼是我們希望能夠更加清晰所以我們現在在進行這個相關的作業"},{"start":165.458,"end":190.467,"text":"非常好 所以這一個行政調查報告剛剛洪部長也已經講了你是召集人也因此外界也都在看這一個行政調查報告出來的時候到底他會是一個像之前何沛山前部長所提出來的是包庇謝宜龍的調查報告還是幫他開罪開脫的調查報告還是一個真真正正能夠釐清真相的調查報告本席提醒"},{"start":191.943,"end":203.863,"text":"在我們看到的媒體報導以及相關的一個資料裡面還有上一次我在衛福委員會質詢的時候有講到那位無性公務同仁他禮拜天11月3號"},{"start":205.66,"end":234.674,"text":"沒有被電話聯絡不上的時候他的家人還有前往我們的辦公處所來去做希望能夠瞭解說是不是無性公務人員在裡面加班結果我們的同仁跟我回覆講是說當天確實有在11月4號凌晨12點多的時候有看到他們的家屬去結果被警衛擋在外面連通報也沒有通報連聯繫也沒有聯繫所以到最後"},{"start":235.214,"end":253.534,"text":"就不知道這個無姓公務同仁他什麼時候離開因為他被發現的時候是隔一天11月4號早上7點半當我們有公務人員進去要上班的時候發現所以部長是不是連同這個部分也能夠做一個徹底釐清有沒有可能最後其實我們是有機會"},{"start":255.319,"end":255.499,"text":"部長,可以嗎?"},{"start":280.411,"end":297.14,"text":"跟吳姓公務員親身有關的相關的資訊我們當然都會納入在這裡面所以連這個部分因為本時已經本時這一個部分不是我講是上一次何沛山部長在你這個位置的時候我問他我們的同仁答詢的時候親口證實的"},{"start":299.101,"end":316.178,"text":"說11月4號12點多已經過了等於是11月3號禮拜天晚上但已經過了12點所以是11月4號的清晨12點多的時候無姓家屬他們確實有到辦公場所但是被警衛擋下來沒有辦法去確認說他是不是有在裡面"},{"start":319.39,"end":346.005,"text":"就我所知確實有這個事情但一些關於一些細節的部分可能這個可能等調查報告出來好那我們就期待一定要把這個調查報告讓我們看到你改革的決心我希望好不好不要希望啦有點自信好不好洪部長來部長再一個部分是就業安定基金啊現在有媒體直接講是說有八千萬被濫用"},{"start":347.637,"end":370.177,"text":"好那我請教一下我請教一下很多人都在問八千萬被濫用是重複了是不是我們這個我們衛環委員會來抱歉剛蘇蘇蘇蘇針偉旁邊這位是祖密祖密對本席的詢問有意見是不是剛我提到我講說八千萬被濫用然後祖密直接講說啊這重複了"},{"start":373.271,"end":395.531,"text":"好沒關係但是本席要問的是什麼要問的是說那我們可不可以釐清了解一下到底就業安定基金被用在哪些項目上面當然因為我們有發函或說我們有要詢問勞動部說到底過去就業安定基金我們支出的項目名稱不得其門而入啊部長"},{"start":396.806,"end":419.191,"text":"你既然講說當然你也在一個在上上禮拜還是立法委員還是監督者的位置如果說我們現在要求要就案訂基金去年我們這支出的項目包括說有沒有八千萬有什麼買咖啡豆青垃圾裝潢等等的部分能不能提供給立法部門來去做了解我想這應該不是秘密吧"},{"start":421.353,"end":441.469,"text":"這個關於這8000現在媒體裡面講8000萬相關的支出是這單都可以提供嗎?好因為其實甚至也很多現在其實都在網路上面是查得到的好那還有就業安定基金的一個用途因為就業安定基金其實有法規相關依據12項那裡面其實沒有所謂的政令宣導沒有所謂的政令宣導"},{"start":442.273,"end":461.631,"text":"有的是什麼有勞工權益的促進有的是這個就業的一個協助但是沒有所謂政令宣導可是居然被濫用或是挪用的部分所以是不是會後能夠請我們相關同仁提供去年就業安定基金的一個使用項目以及他的一個支出的一個細項"},{"start":464.247,"end":492.299,"text":"這沒有問題吧跟委員說明就安定基金當然它在母法裡面是三個大的目標那後來在致用辦法裡面其實有所謂12項12個目的對但是沒有政令宣導重點是在那三個大項上面那我們確實過去會有一些文宣文宣的經費也就是說比方說它是用在促進國民就業促進國民就業上面可能會有一些需要宣傳的需要"},{"start":493.919,"end":494.019,"text":"主席"},{"start":513.758,"end":530.966,"text":"最後一個事情部長新官上任不到一個月我只確認一下你之前有一二再三希望能夠提出要添災要有有薪假的一個部分現在擔任部長還會不會持續推動其實我也在跟業務單位討論這事情"},{"start":533.087,"end":554.845,"text":"我其實提的只是所謂這個颱風甲然後他如果有出勤的話那應該這個事業單位應該有義務要加給這個工資那這部分我知道其實業務單位現在也在研議中勞金法事實之一條嘛對不對本企業關心這個議題所以我希望部長"},{"start":555.586,"end":571.6,"text":"竟然在洪委員的時候就有相關的提案那擔任部長了你就更有權力能夠來做來推動來執行來達成所以你之前的提案我們會幫你追蹤我們也希望在未來的"},{"start":572.361,"end":572.401,"text":"謝謝,謝謝孟楷"}]}},{"id":"157831","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157831","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360e7a11b5c243a5614e45dd5fe0ad21242d33acae7c847dfd3aa518cd20a1dc6235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊曜","委員發言時間":"14:42:10 - 14:53:17","影片長度":"00:11:07","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長針對「勞動部勞動力發展署北基宜花金馬分署事件及如何完善申訴管道之具體策進作為及期程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T14:42:10+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T14:53:17+08:00","duration":667,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":12,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-2-26-12"},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.941593750000001,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.134093750000002,"end":26.457218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.36846875,"end":29.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.372218750000002,"end":32.768468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.392843750000004,"end":33.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.40971875,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.42659375,"end":34.540343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.48909375,"end":46.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.70846875,"end":39.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.27659375,"end":48.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.132843750000006,"end":51.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.883468750000006,"end":54.891593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.47346875,"end":58.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.312843750000006,"end":60.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.05096875,"end":62.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.008468750000006,"end":64.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.53971875,"end":66.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.29471875,"end":72.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.52596875,"end":81.06471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.36846875,"end":94.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.71221875,"end":97.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.97346875000001,"end":98.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.07034375,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.57221875,"end":102.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.86721875,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.11971875,"end":107.67659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.60034375000001,"end":110.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.25846875,"end":114.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.93721875000001,"end":114.40971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.47721875,"end":114.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.56159375,"end":119.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.74221875,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.50534375000001,"end":124.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.37846875000001,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.90534375000001,"end":134.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.43596875,"end":140.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.17346875,"end":141.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.33784375000002,"end":144.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.66659375,"end":145.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.47659375,"end":146.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.89409375,"end":159.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.97221875,"end":161.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.89596875,"end":163.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.96721875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.95846875,"end":167.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.42659375000002,"end":169.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.03409375,"end":169.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.92409375,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.57346875000002,"end":175.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.63221875000002,"end":176.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.91471875000002,"end":179.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.15471875,"end":180.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.44971875000002,"end":186.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.30971875,"end":188.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.67221875,"end":190.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.42284375,"end":193.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.63346875000002,"end":195.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.11409375000002,"end":197.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.34596875000003,"end":199.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.13034375,"end":201.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.13409375,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.97346875000002,"end":206.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.27721875,"end":207.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.85909375,"end":227.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.35409375,"end":227.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.65784375,"end":241.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.81596875000002,"end":245.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.54096875000002,"end":250.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.02971875000003,"end":251.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.05471875,"end":255.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.54784375,"end":261.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.04909375,"end":268.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.66409375,"end":270.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":270.19971875000005,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.41846875000005,"end":275.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.45596875,"end":277.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.02971875000003,"end":278.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.80596875000003,"end":287.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.00846875,"end":279.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.95221875000004,"end":291.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.25971875,"end":297.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.11096875000004,"end":303.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.21971875,"end":307.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.52721875000003,"end":308.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.28659375,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.97784375000003,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.47971875,"end":323.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.33909375,"end":326.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.96721875000003,"end":329.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.75159375000004,"end":331.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.72596875000005,"end":333.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.81846875,"end":337.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.30721875,"end":339.35346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.12971875,"end":341.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.00284375,"end":343.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.07409375000003,"end":345.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.59284375000004,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.97659375,"end":351.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.92096875000004,"end":354.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.72659375,"end":356.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.02159375,"end":359.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.51909375,"end":360.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.54409375,"end":362.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.51846875,"end":365.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.79659375,"end":367.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.49659375000005,"end":368.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.76221875000005,"end":371.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.78721875,"end":374.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.77409375,"end":375.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.51659375,"end":378.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.99284375,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.88284375,"end":382.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.67159375,"end":382.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.97534375000004,"end":393.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.04284375000003,"end":383.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.82159375000003,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.03534375000004,"end":404.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.11971875,"end":404.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.33909375,"end":404.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.46971875,"end":405.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.48659375000005,"end":405.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.41471875,"end":406.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.42284375,"end":416.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.53971875,"end":419.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.18471875,"end":422.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.64409375,"end":425.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.11221875,"end":426.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.72784375000003,"end":441.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.00534375,"end":434.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.61596875000004,"end":444.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.72096875000005,"end":454.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.82971875000004,"end":452.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.22159375,"end":454.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.91346875000005,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.39846875,"end":457.79909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.22096875000005,"end":462.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.43971875000005,"end":462.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.96284375000005,"end":472.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.89784375000005,"end":477.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.96471875000003,"end":482.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.38159375000004,"end":487.29659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.76909375,"end":494.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.30409375000005,"end":493.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.14346875,"end":495.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.42159375000006,"end":507.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.90096875000006,"end":507.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.91784375000003,"end":520.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.9453437500001,"end":523.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.98284375,"end":525.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.77159375,"end":528.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.99471875,"end":537.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.90471875,"end":538.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2209687500001,"end":540.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.0222187500001,"end":543.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.3215937500001,"end":545.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.91596875,"end":548.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.60346875,"end":550.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.81409375,"end":551.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":552.82221875,"end":554.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.99471875,"end":559.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.3359687500001,"end":563.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.0947187500001,"end":566.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.80721875,"end":570.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.4397187500001,"end":575.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.99159375,"end":577.3078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.0165937500001,"end":579.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.88534375,"end":583.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.9228437500001,"end":584.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.8172187499999,"end":586.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.7365937500001,"end":591.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.19159375,"end":592.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.3684687500001,"end":595.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.39784375,"end":596.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.81096875,"end":599.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.34221875,"end":601.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.5403437500001,"end":605.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.2822187500001,"end":609.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.02846875,"end":611.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.28971875,"end":612.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.3528437500001,"end":613.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.97721875,"end":616.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.33534375,"end":617.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.2297187500001,"end":620.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.03096875,"end":623.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.4272187500001,"end":623.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.6084687499999,"end":625.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.89096875,"end":626.5828437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.35909375,"end":630.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.5947187500001,"end":635.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.21846875,"end":647.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.84534375,"end":654.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.8315937500001,"end":656.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.7890937500001,"end":657.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.5990937500001,"end":658.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.7253437500001,"end":660.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.9909687500001,"end":661.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.91909375,"end":663.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.61909375,"end":667.1840937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.257,"end":26.112,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席請下 洪部長部長 我剛剛聽部長在回答張祺凱委員的時候我有一個疑問 所以想要先請教一下部長部長說現在各機關"},{"start":30.39,"end":54.569,"text":"因為都有相關的案件在申訴就是很多部會都有聽到這個部會下的相關的申訴嗎那都要經過一定調查的機制所以就是遍地烽火"},{"start":57.809,"end":66.338,"text":"縱使是這樣子呢我其實我也是主張外部委員必須要多於內部人員的"},{"start":68.095,"end":93.96,"text":"因為內部人員其實在特別是公務體系裡面公務體系裡面是這樣子就是大家可能在同一個單位待久了那他來擔任委員其實是作為外部委員輔導輔助之用我個人的看法這樣子出來的調查報告"},{"start":95.745,"end":118.057,"text":"第一會比較有公信力第二比較不會有欺上瞞下的調查報告出爐我這樣子講部長覺得怎麼樣我們希望這過程要怎麼樣更取信於外監更有公信力對因為我也不相信外部委員這麼懶找因為其實"},{"start":125.824,"end":140.217,"text":"大齡或性貧的案件的專家介面其實我們可以把它看得寬廣一點。像譬如說以洪部長來講"},{"start":142.403,"end":145.905,"text":"法案的提出很重要可是呢我常講"},{"start":170.95,"end":172.231,"text":"聽說發展署的辦公大樓裡面有一個長官專屬坐梯"},{"start":201.155,"end":226.716,"text":"有沒有部長沒有去過那個辦公室嗎我有跟委員報告部長到大樓的時候他沒有搭那個專屬座梯那至於那棟大樓因為不是只有勞動部勞動力發展署自己用是整個這個新莊年的辦公大樓管委會他們所做的一個規範所以那個部分從文化部以下他們確實當時在大樓管會有做這樣一個設計"},{"start":228.497,"end":248.907,"text":"為什麼我對這個電梯有意見呢?因為我覺得很多文化是從小細節發展出來的就是說你長官一走進辦公室就已經有別於其他的員工"},{"start":253.1,"end":268.32,"text":"大家的格格感會很深所以我是建議不管有幾個機關在那裡是不是大家去統合一下把他取消因為這個國人的觀感也不好"},{"start":268.72,"end":270.521,"text":"民進黨不要說在公務體系"},{"start":298.163,"end":312.499,"text":"我們從街頭走到執政我其實對這個是非常的厭惡的所以我自己到發案處的時候我自己也沒有坐那個所謂的長官電梯"},{"start":313.52,"end":337.758,"text":"對我現在不是說你啦對那我說如果其他的相關其他的部會也同意的話我們當然覺得也不用真的不用去分這個什麼長官跟一般的員工當然因為你想嘛就是說所有的長官都有專屬做題然後久了以後呢他就他就就是他就會發展出一個很奇特的文化勞動部啊"},{"start":340.808,"end":368.782,"text":"我的觀察這五六年還真的是默默的存在然後偶爾就出一些問題這個是很遺憾的就是說全國的勞工勞保的投保人數超過1200萬一個這麼大的部這幾年討論到的大概就是救安基金濫用"},{"start":370.09,"end":393.53,"text":"然後再做霸凌有關這次霸凌我有一個問題請教一下部長部長聽說你在立委任職期間就有聽過霸凌我有聽應該是我跟經營部說明因為之前在衛航委員會我就有聽聞過這位謝富恩署長在一些管理的作風上面"},{"start":394.858,"end":397.46,"text":"我覺得霸凌案或內部的事務最麻煩的就是他的聲音出不來我在未完第13年"},{"start":423.683,"end":425.386,"text":"其實我真的不知道那"},{"start":428.176,"end":452.432,"text":"我是覺得這樣子就是說那當初你覺得他的領導風格有問題我聽聞這件事情那你有沒有做什麼那時候我就向勞動部反映你有向勞動部反映許民村的時代去年的時候去年就還是許民村啊你說你向部長反映嘛就向勞動部"},{"start":456.494,"end":472.234,"text":"向勞動部反映,勞動部有沒有給你回覆?因為我其實是聽聞,所以我在聽聞的狀況下我覺得我還是要聽,那其實是一個反應跟提醒,說你們要注意這個事情這樣子。"},{"start":474.903,"end":494.362,"text":"所以你聽聞他的領導風格有問題不是有具體的人不是有具體的陳情人不是有人來跟我陳情不是或者是說我手上有很具體的事證這樣子就是有聽說有聽聞對所以你也就反應了對先就反應跟提醒反應了以後"},{"start":497.472,"end":519.905,"text":"反映給誰部長可能也忘了就向勞動部反映向勞動部反映然後勞動部也沒有給出任何的下文就是當然這中間經過了什麼事情坦白說我不是那麼清楚但是對我現在上任來說我最重要的事情就是說相關的反映相關的提醒都能夠被有效的處理當然"},{"start":521.367,"end":544.836,"text":"我覺得是這樣子就是一個部會的文化是漸漸形成的那在過去這幾年為什麼大家現在一直在講救安基金其實我曾經在這個位置跟許民春就救安基金的補助"},{"start":547.758,"end":564.529,"text":"發生過非常激烈的爭吵許民春還揚言不干了我為什麼剛剛問部長你當初是接獲到什麼訊息因為我覺得"},{"start":567.864,"end":596.147,"text":"我覺得就是就我的觀察在過去這6年我再講一次就是勞動部就默默的存在每一年只有在調最低基本工資的時候大家才發現原來行政院有勞動部那再一個就是大家討論到"},{"start":597.987,"end":626.209,"text":"舊安基金的時候會討論到因為舊安基金確實被濫用得很嚴重今天不討論因為我們還有機會討論然後再接下來就是你整個部會的文化已經非常的官僚跟僵化所以在內部光是一個分署長"},{"start":627.409,"end":655.729,"text":"就可以作威作福到這種程度這個是執政黨應該要有的警訊部長我們兩個就是各打50大板我當初沒有要求許民春信守承諾辭掉部長這是我的軟弱我覺得部長當初接到的訊息沒有去追也是你的疏忽"},{"start":657.662,"end":666.761,"text":"我們共同勉勵共同打拼謝謝主席謝謝部長謝謝楊耀委員以重心長"}]}},{"id":"157771","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157771","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836081bbc207ea3a1294ca1a359a53f99ce194948cb68dbf16ab5826011f50adb47c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"10:01:14 - 10:13:46","影片長度":"00:12:32","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:01:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:13:46+08:00","duration":752,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.57471875,"end":4.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.73909375,"end":6.2915937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.61221875,"end":11.927843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.99534375,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.164093750000003,"end":16.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.20971875,"end":51.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.32659375,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.750968750000006,"end":67.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.52659375,"end":69.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.87659375,"end":93.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.37409375,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.90659375,"end":105.34784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.70221875,"end":128.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.86721875,"end":135.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":144.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.44721875000002,"end":164.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.74784375000002,"end":194.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.63346875000002,"end":199.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.25284375,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.95534375000003,"end":241.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.36034375000003,"end":260.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.31096875000003,"end":278.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.50221875,"end":282.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.70409375,"end":286.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.24784375,"end":288.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.30221875,"end":290.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.64784375,"end":294.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.09034375000005,"end":309.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.43409375000005,"end":327.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.84471875,"end":330.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.10159375,"end":335.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.70409375,"end":346.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.31846875,"end":349.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.08596875,"end":354.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.45659375,"end":355.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.43534375,"end":355.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.61659375000005,"end":382.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.85221875,"end":360.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.13909375000003,"end":361.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.14846875,"end":384.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.04284375000003,"end":383.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.30409375000005,"end":385.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.26596875,"end":389.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.55659375000005,"end":394.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.07909375,"end":398.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.35284375000003,"end":408.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.15284375000005,"end":408.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.20346875,"end":422.81721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.28971875,"end":448.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.71096875,"end":428.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.12846875,"end":429.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.36784375,"end":436.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.34471875,"end":453.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.02784375000005,"end":452.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.12034375,"end":464.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.11034375,"end":495.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.08721875000003,"end":477.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.90284375000005,"end":499.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.61971875,"end":520.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2959687499999,"end":519.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.9284687500001,"end":520.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.9453437500001,"end":587.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.59784375,"end":531.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.72846875,"end":531.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.00971875,"end":568.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.8547187500001,"end":595.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.56659375,"end":604.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.42159375,"end":614.0615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.1459687500001,"end":617.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.48721875,"end":658.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.12221875,"end":673.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.90471875,"end":673.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.0859687500001,"end":692.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.3784687500001,"end":694.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.4878437500001,"end":720.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.7240937500001,"end":694.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.19909375,"end":706.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.15034375,"end":727.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.01846875,"end":745.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.12659375,"end":738.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.0959687500001,"end":745.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.31534375,"end":745.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":745.3997187500001,"end":747.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.4922187500001,"end":747.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":747.5090937500001,"end":749.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":748.23471875,"end":748.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.41596875,"end":749.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.63534375,"end":749.66909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.282,"end":31.742,"text":"委員長部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配"},{"start":32.242,"end":32.422,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":52.295,"end":52.315,"text":"﹚委員"},{"start":68.579,"end":68.599,"text":"委員．"},{"start":94.309,"end":112.405,"text":"最近幾年就有類似的個案就是在2022年的時候就有民眾因為他的個資不勝外洩所以他的銀行的錢就不見了就是少了6.7萬然後在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞就是"},{"start":112.925,"end":118.028,"text":"此外,罪犯集團可能利用木馬城市讓民眾損失了7億多的金額,顯示出網絡上的風險存在。"},{"start":130.435,"end":144.759,"text":"本席在最近接到了兩個個案最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了一萬五千元然後他就在"},{"start":153.562,"end":153.582,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":174.204,"end":174.344,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":204.204,"end":204.924,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":221.949,"end":221.969,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":242.072,"end":257.003,"text":"就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款"},{"start":259.245,"end":277.184,"text":"所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28"},{"start":279.946,"end":280.226,"text":"陳素月委員"},{"start":298.411,"end":298.431,"text":"委員８"},{"start":327.936,"end":355.077,"text":"他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付全銀Pay支付寶還有這個台灣Pay Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊"},{"start":356.944,"end":379.349,"text":"報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說"},{"start":386.37,"end":407.637,"text":"可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機"},{"start":408.637,"end":421.524,"text":"對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識啦就說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最安全那再來才是簡訊不過"},{"start":423.365,"end":448.6,"text":"的確沒錯就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能相就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的"},{"start":449.36,"end":466.101,"text":"﹗"},{"start":466.101,"end":490.725,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":490.865,"end":517.592,"text":"所以在這種消費異常的狀況下我們是不是也有要設定一個攔阻的功能就是一個防火牆這樣子這一部分我們有跟金管會有一些討論就是為了打炸確實有些所謂的這個異常的這個行為那金管那邊現在有一些系統像鷹眼系統是我們數碼部補助發展的那個他就可以偵測這種異常然後就會就會進行一些攔阻這個這個有在有在合作中"},{"start":518.092,"end":545.532,"text":"所以從金管會那邊出來處理好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人"},{"start":547.593,"end":558.376,"text":"委員會確認,不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新"},{"start":570.279,"end":593.714,"text":"這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統"},{"start":596.155,"end":616.821,"text":"那這個就是讓本席剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的"},{"start":617.861,"end":641.971,"text":"就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位批價第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個批價就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識"},{"start":643.191,"end":643.671,"text":"此外,此外,此外。"},{"start":658.423,"end":658.823,"text":"數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別?"},{"start":674.514,"end":693.976,"text":"素月生物證是一個卡片那個上面那個就是我剛講就是你要經過生物辨識那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的也就是你要拿去的話那個如果這種暴力破解或什麼是比較有機會被破解但是剛講這個素月皮夾因為它經過好幾層的加密然後再加上剛講生物辨識它的安全性會高很多"},{"start":694.617,"end":720.458,"text":"所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在演進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡"},{"start":721.186,"end":748.557,"text":"好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的手法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員今天謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時1分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請黃部長，還有資安署署長。"],["主席：黃部長、謝署長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員早。"],["陳委員素月：部長早安。現在是一個科技的時代、網路的時代，所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣，很多人，尤其是年輕的族群，都已經很習慣用電子支付了。我們看一下，根據統計，目前有幾個電子支付，包括街口支付，還有一卡通、全支付、全盈+PAY等等，所有用戶數的排名，其中使用數最高的是街口支付，已經高達657.1萬人；然後第二多的一卡通，有655.2萬人；然後全支付也有508萬，用戶數都蠻高的。交易的金額也都很高，街口支付有高達46.2億；全支付有43.9億；然後一卡通有34.1億元，這也顯示出我們現在的消費習慣，可能未來使用的人應該也會越來越多啦，照這個趨勢來說是很多。可是我們現在也發現，這樣子網路電子支付的使用習慣，如果在被駭客入侵或者是個資外洩的時候，可能也會面臨很大的一個危險啦！我們看到，其實最近幾年就有類似的個案，在2022年的時候，就有民眾因為他的個資不慎外洩，所以他銀行的錢就不見了，少了6.7萬；在今年的6月也有這樣子的一個新聞，有詐騙集團可能是利用木馬程式，也讓民眾損失了七億多這樣子的金額，所以也顯示出在網路上有這樣子的一個風險存在。","本席在最近就接到了兩個個案，最近才發生的，在上個禮拜跟昨天，上個禮拜接到一個個案的狀況，民眾陳情他在17號禮拜天的時候，他發現他的LINE Pay少了1萬5,000元，趕快用他的手機去查，因為他銀行帳戶是蠻多的啦，有行動銀行的其實只有兩家，就是新光銀行跟星展銀行，其中新光銀行有綁LINE Pay跟街口支付。他透過165客服要去查詢的時候，他打給165，然後要登入星展跟新光銀行的app，結果發現他的帳號密碼已經被更改了，所以他就趕快用電話去聯絡要凍結他的帳戶。結果他去查詢的時候，發現他新光的帳戶已經被轉走81萬了，然後星展也已經被轉了17萬出去，然後新光的帳戶其實在很短的時間，大概就一個晚上的時間，我看他清冊的時間，1分鐘可能就被轉3筆了，一筆不到二十幾秒的時間，就一筆一筆這樣子一直轉出去，被轉了81萬。後來禮拜一他又趕快臨櫃去查詢相關的一些銀行，他發現他的合作金庫也被轉出了20萬，聯邦銀行也被轉出20萬，富邦銀行也被轉了20萬，中國的銀行也被轉出十八萬多。他後來在21號去地方警察分局做筆錄的當下，他又接到星展銀行打電話去跟他確認，他是不是有在申請網路貸款，所以這是個案整個的過程啦！","昨天又有一個民眾陳情，他合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆，然後每一筆就是7,030固定的金額，28筆這樣一直連續轉出去，這是昨天接到的啦！從這兩件個案來說，陳情人就很懷疑，因為網路銀行他只有兩家，然後其中他被轉出去的帳戶，是轉到他自己已經很久沒有用的其中一個銀行，就是台新銀行，他說從104年那時候餘額已經只剩一百多塊，所以他也沒結清就放著放到現在。結果他新光銀行的錢是被轉到台新銀行去，然後再從台新銀行轉到街口支付、全盈+PAY、台新Pay，就這樣轉出去，然後錢就不見了。這個個案有幾個問題點，就是他只申請了LINE Pay跟街口支付，可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請全支付、全盈+PAY、支付寶，還有臺灣Pay、Google Pay等等，所以這部分在整個資安上，我們要怎樣去防堵啊？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷啦！"],["陳委員素月：是。"],["黃部長彥男：所以現在像我個人也是一樣，現在一定要用多因子認證，就是轉帳或是銀行交易一定要經過多因子再確認，不管是用生物辨識或者是用所謂的簡訊再確認，你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳。這個一定要設，不然的話，現在帳號密碼被偷……"],["陳委員素月：他這個過程還有一個問題，就是歹徒在申請他的電子支付的時候，可能有驗證碼，可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了。"],["黃部長彥男：對，驗證碼通常會送到你個人的手機號碼。"],["陳委員素月：對啊，他就是收不到，結果他事後發現他手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉，所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機。"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以驗證碼被……剛剛講，可能最好還是用生物辨識啦！就是指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想，多因子認證裡面生物特徵是最安全，再來才是簡訊。不過的確沒錯，現在歹徒要偷帳號密碼的管道還滿多，包括下載app，包括有時候是網路，比如說公司資安做得不好會被入侵，所以現在都不能相信，還是要回復到自己。我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾，在這個方面，一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證，就是剛剛講的，牽涉到銀行轉帳或是牽涉到金融，一定要用比較安全的方法，像生物辨識這種。現在生物辨識是慢慢的在普遍，每個銀行都在推，所以這個應該是我們未來希望能夠達到的一個安全防護。"],["陳委員素月：對，所以歹徒可能已經竊取他的個資了，在申請電子支付的時候，這個部分未來在資安方面，我們要怎樣去防堵，這個可能要去思考啦！另外，電子支付或第三方支付在消費異常的時候，因為像這兩個個案都是短短的時間，一筆一筆就一直轉出去了，而且甚至是1分鐘裡面就轉三筆了，不到20秒就一筆，所以在這種消費異常的狀況下，我們是不是也要設定一個攔阻的功能，就是一個防火牆這樣子？"],["黃部長彥男：這部分我們跟金管會有一些討論，就是為了打詐，確實有些所謂異常的行為，而金管會那邊現在有一些系統，像鷹眼系統是我們數發部補助發展的，那個就可以偵測這種異常，就會進行一些攔阻，這個有在合作中，透過金管會那邊來處理。"],["陳委員素月：包括民眾有反映，其實他很多銀行都是約定不轉帳，也就是沒有轉帳功能的，然後都被開通了，所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的讓民眾覺得非常的擔憂。還有冒名貸款，因為他沒有辦貸款，還好星展銀行有打去確認，打電話給本人確認，不然的話，他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了債務都不知道。","接下來本席要關心的是，因為這個涉及資安的問題，我們看到明（114）年度的預算裡面，在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億，分4年執行，在今年度已經有編列三億多，明年度是1.9億，這個部分主要就是要執行所謂的數位皮夾，就是分散式數位身分認證與授權系統，這就是本席剛剛講的那兩個個案，我就是聯想到這個，我們要執行這樣的計畫，未來如果實施數位皮夾，我們把資料都放在這個數位皮夾裡面，萬一被駭了怎麼辦？那不是非常的危險嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛有委員講，我們數位皮夾的第一個機制就是剛才講的，你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個皮夾，這裡面的資料都是經過加密，而且經過滿完整的像PKI的加密，但是你要拿到這個私鑰，一定要有一個機制，不是只有ID跟password，應該會建議有一些指紋或臉相辨識，這樣的話就可以保護，就算你的資料被拿走，因為他沒辦法破密，所以他也沒辦法拿到裡面的一些認證，這個我們在推的時候會特別注意，怎麼去保護在數位皮夾裡面的資料安全，這是一個很重要的議題。"],["陳委員素月：是，我們回想之前內政部推數位身分證的時候，就是因為這個資料的安全讓大家產生非常大的疑慮，所以後來就喊停了。所謂的數位皮夾跟數位身分證有什麼區別？"],["黃部長彥男：數位身分證是一個卡片，我剛才講的，要經過生物辨識，但那個卡片是沒辦法辨識的，如果被別人拿去的話，用暴力破解或怎麼樣，它是比較有機會被破解；但是剛剛講的這個數位皮夾，因為它經過好幾層的加密，再加上剛剛講的生物辨識，它的安全性會高很多。關於這個技術面，因為過去這幾年的技術也在研發、演進，很多國家已經在推數位皮夾，所以我們也參考國際的一些標準，希望這個東西將來是便民的，也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡、駕照等等卡片都可以在你的手機裡面，以後就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續，這當然是一個目標，這個計畫的目的是在這裡。"],["陳委員素月：好，我們知道科技一直在進步，歹徒作案的手法真的也是與時俱進，所以我們也要非常慎重的去防範，包括一些計畫的執行，或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案，是不是數位部這邊也能夠進一步的了解，發現哪些部分是漏洞，然後要想辦法防堵，確保民眾的財產安全。"],["黃部長彥男：是，謝謝委員建議。"],["主席：謝謝陳素月召委。那個手機是哪個品牌的？iPhone，好。","接下來有請林俊憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157770","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157770","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b0a60134e5c1a2fcca1a359a53f99ce194948cb68dbf16ab70d53a0d6a0ba6b15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"09:48:31 - 10:00:52","影片長度":"00:12:21","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:48:31+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:00:52+08:00","duration":741,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.58784375,"end":10.544093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.062843750000003,"end":20.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.550968750000003,"end":29.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.984093750000003,"end":62.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.666593750000004,"end":66.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.31159375,"end":67.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.59409375,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.48346875,"end":75.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.61409375000001,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.96909375,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.47471875000001,"end":113.39721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.75284375000001,"end":106.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.74721875,"end":123.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.94409375000001,"end":126.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.81284375000001,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.72909375,"end":151.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.24346875,"end":153.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.31909375,"end":155.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.09096875,"end":157.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.30159375000002,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.70159375,"end":171.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.03784375,"end":190.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.53721875000002,"end":200.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.34721875000002,"end":192.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.82659375,"end":208.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.57221875000002,"end":213.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.17471875,"end":224.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.53596875000002,"end":226.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.25284375,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.45471875,"end":232.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.20971875,"end":246.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.42284375000003,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.35909375000003,"end":259.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.60221875,"end":260.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.41221875,"end":275.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.39284375,"end":285.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.97784375000003,"end":293.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.36034375,"end":295.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.23784375,"end":328.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.45659375,"end":331.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.87784375,"end":338.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.69534375,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.53534375000004,"end":368.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.27721875000003,"end":389.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.04596875000004,"end":396.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.09971875,"end":417.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.14284375000005,"end":419.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.79659375,"end":420.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.12971875000005,"end":444.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.90659375,"end":447.64034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.85971875,"end":448.48409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.77096875,"end":451.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.97721875,"end":461.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.65096875,"end":463.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.10221875,"end":465.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.72221875,"end":463.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.77284375000005,"end":464.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.76846875,"end":465.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.64596875,"end":465.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.25346875,"end":473.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.35846875000004,"end":469.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.15096875,"end":481.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.08221875000004,"end":496.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.66221875,"end":500.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.27346875,"end":511.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.96784375000004,"end":516.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.64221875,"end":518.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.2622187500001,"end":530.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.5828437499999,"end":518.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.46721875,"end":548.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.78096875,"end":547.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.5359687499999,"end":548.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.55284375,"end":554.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.50971875,"end":574.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.87784375,"end":587.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.37784375,"end":588.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.4115937500001,"end":590.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.89221875,"end":595.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.1572187500001,"end":649.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.5034687500001,"end":648.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.7859687499999,"end":651.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.9797187500001,"end":657.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.24471875,"end":657.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.08846875,"end":658.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.12221875,"end":658.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.39221875,"end":658.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.83096875,"end":658.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.93221875,"end":658.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.98284375,"end":683.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.8059687500001,"end":687.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.37909375,"end":693.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.8803437500001,"end":698.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.50409375,"end":713.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.2990937500001,"end":728.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.96346875,"end":730.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.9209687500002,"end":738.0759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.0759687500001,"end":739.39221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.51,"end":27.622,"text":"謝謝召委請一下黃部長黃部長治安署謝署長謝署長產業署林代理署長來林代理署長部長好我剛才聽了一下治安署啊謝署長在備詢台上面有說明治安署啊他認為的確是工作壓力很大那從治安署成立到現在啊謝署長說大概有42個人離職"},{"start":30.083,"end":44.37,"text":"其中有21個人是到民間公司還有10個人回到工作壓力沒有那麼大的原單位那其他的人因為薪資的問題或是離家比較近的問題選擇平調"},{"start":47.812,"end":73.528,"text":"所以現在離職謝署長認為說只有8個人是覺得工作壓力太大不適應治安署所以請調到別的單位所以整個離職率謝署長說你不適應來說大概只有0.4%那我請問一下部長你認為治安署這個離職率到底是多少來說明一下"},{"start":75.769,"end":102.646,"text":"我這邊拿到的數字就大概就是以今年來講大概有24個人離職那但是比例上來講就是剛剛講就是中間有很多原因有在剛剛就是署長解釋的那當然我還是認為說這個這裡面因為治安署的工作真的是過重然後這個那個怎麼樣去調配人力跟未來部長離職率就是以42個人來做計算啦"},{"start":103.567,"end":125.745,"text":"您們說只有8個人是因為工作壓力的問題所以來離開或者是請掉這樣是粉飾太平這是第一第二我看這個產業署跟治安署相關的這個離職狀況其實我有初步的去了解相關的離職率的問題那其實我一開始看到"},{"start":126.914,"end":128.095,"text":"我看產業署跟資安署的債值人數應該是在300人以上"},{"start":149.793,"end":170.328,"text":"但是我看你們的預算原額卻只有150至165之間部長這又是粉飾太平為了說離職率要好看一點所以把這個原額從150把它擴大這個分母成為300以上來說明一下"},{"start":172.689,"end":199.954,"text":"報告委員這個我看的不是那個number我看的是離子人數所以我剛剛特別講說我看的是人數所以他那個離子率的計算這個我覺得這個計算是的確是一個問號不過我重點要看的是剛剛每個數的離子人數大概是有兩種計算的公式一種是期末的載子人數加上期間的離子人數或者是"},{"start":200.954,"end":223.911,"text":"其初在職人數加上期末在職人數除以二 這應該是一個基本的功能不過部長我已經講得很明白了從治安署謝署長剛才所說明的42個人的離職他只用8個人來作為一個計算的基礎這是不對的這是欺騙社會大眾我認為不可取"},{"start":224.631,"end":244.884,"text":"第二相關的數位署還有資安署相關的離職率的這個計算也是粉飾太平這個你要嚴加的督促了好那我現在來回到相關的這個推動本土繁體中文AI模型這個議題來請教一下這個部長就是說我們現在的"},{"start":249.414,"end":249.434,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":276.525,"end":279.769,"text":"報告委員我們推動主權的AI但資料的共享很重要那資料部請資源創新師來做個說明"},{"start":296.388,"end":312.364,"text":"報告委員對於這個資料的應用的部分我們過往有那個開放資料的一個處理所以在過往10年來講我們開放資料總有5萬多筆那依據我們做台德的訓練來講它其實有三分之一的資料大概是使用開放資料"},{"start":313.285,"end":338.729,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":338.989,"end":362.764,"text":"我們必須要降低對於外國技術或服務的依賴要強化我們自己臺灣本土的實力推動發展跟普及我看我們TWNIC就是臺灣網路資訊中心2024的臺灣網路報告雖然使用CHAP GPT的人口逐漸增加但是使用者比例大概集中於40歲以下"},{"start":363.984,"end":386.255,"text":"獲得大學以上的學歷為主要的族群我們必須要更普及另外我們是具有民主自由的這樣的一個優勢我們作為自由民主的國家我們所擁有的言論自由的環境或者是能夠讓AI數據收集更多多元具有代表性的這樣的一個環境這種開放的數據環境"},{"start":390.217,"end":415.552,"text":"是推動本土繁體中文AI模型的一大優勢也是國際合作的一個亮點那這對於提升我們的國家自主性跟國家競爭力也是一個重要的方向那臺灣在語言文化的自主性數據安全的方面如果沒有做好這個AI繁體中文的這樣的一個重要的基礎的話我們會喪失主導權"},{"start":418.774,"end":446.561,"text":"另外我看南韓有成立這個市中學堂的改革方案部長應該知道了他們建置AI的i市中學堂的一個平台作為推廣韓語的一個前哨站他們在世界各地設立伺服器讓學員能夠更方便學習韓語那我們數話部何時會跟進"},{"start":448.842,"end":472.703,"text":"我們對本國的技術有沒有信心來保證你講一下那我們有自己訓練的模型那至於說這個教育的推廣這一部分我們會去看看怎麼去最後跟其他部位共同合作這是一個重要的未來的建制的方向沒錯另外我們也要滿足我們在地的模型在地的需求來促進數位的平等因為"},{"start":474.209,"end":495.044,"text":"本土AI模型我認為它不只是技術的議題更是文化保存的一個問題本土的AI模型更能掌握我們台灣特有的社會文化的背景而且對於語言障礙的群體教育程度較低及高齡人口來說是特別重要的"},{"start":496.898,"end":510.251,"text":"國際AI大廠這些巨頭他們的AI模型他們是有強大的技術能力但是他們對於這些語言文化的掌握還是不足對於繁體中文的這個環境還是不足"},{"start":512.025,"end":534.461,"text":"我們的本土自己AI模型能夠深入的去捕捉這一些語言的細節然後能夠解決在國際工具使用中因為識別錯誤或表達不準的這一些問題部長你有注意到這一些嗎所以才說我們要推動主權的AI我們要有自己的AI的model跟自己的那個"},{"start":535.141,"end":559.397,"text":"我們有跟國科會在合作在訓練像台德的一些模型的訓練希望有些本土的話就是回應剛剛委員的部長另外像這種AI的模型他很重要就是AI的語言助理他能夠進一步強化對母語對方言的一些理解"},{"start":560.077,"end":586.831,"text":"那也能夠為高齡者語言障礙的群體或是偏鄉居民來提供便利那我們數位部有沒有類似的AI的這種助理工具有沒有去朝這個方面去推動來保定你講一下我們有那個一些平台的設像AI吧打像這樣的計劃在進行希望提供一些工具給給政府部門使用以外也給民眾使用那這個有在規劃中對"},{"start":588.43,"end":616.55,"text":"部長你對推動這一些AI的本土模型你有沒有什麼具體的目標那我們是希望短期、中期、長期你們有一個具體的目標我一個簡單的建議短期的目標一至兩年要建立本土繁體中文的語料庫然後開發針對特定領域的AI模型的原型然後推出分眾的AI素養課程"},{"start":617.631,"end":633.2,"text":"那中期目標3至5年要建立具有國際競爭力的本土AI模型然後要形成完整的AI人才的培育體系建立AI的倫理治理的一個框架長期目標5至10年"},{"start":633.9,"end":657.058,"text":"要成為華語AI技術的全球標竿然後輸出台灣AI技術跟治理的相關的經驗然後還要建立具有國際影響力的AI生態系統針對我的建議來部長你說明一下你的意見跟看法委員建議很好那我們在把我們這個未來推動的政策跟那個計畫看能不能朝這個目標來努力"},{"start":659.181,"end":686.938,"text":"這個部長要全力的督促數位部從成立到現在從之前的唐鳳部長到現在的黃部長其實我都跟你們有討論過相關的數位部相關的文官的體系行政的程序內部的文化的建立因為數位部是新成立的一個部會他從各部會調集人馬到"},{"start":688.847,"end":713.615,"text":"這個數位部來成立那唐部長是非常有創意的人但是他對行政體系文官體系不是那麼理解那黃部長也來自產業民間所以你相關的行政體系的建立內部文化尊重公務員尊重專業建立效率的這樣的一個未來的數位產業一個重要的部會啊"},{"start":714.355,"end":738.842,"text":"部長你的責任是很重是很重包括對相關數位產業的政策以及對內部文官體系程序的這樣的一個建立效率講了那麼久我們社會大眾其實對數位部還是蠻失望的我坦白的說這個部長要全力的督促謝謝委員的建議"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":231,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時48分）謝謝召委，請黃部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["李委員昆澤：資安署謝署長。"],["主席：謝署長。"],["李委員昆澤：產業署林代理署長。"],["主席：林代理署長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：部長好。我剛才聽了一下資安署謝署長在備詢臺上面有說明，他認為資安署的確是工作壓力很大，從資安署成立到現在，謝署長說大概有42個人離職，其中有21個人是到民間公司，還有10個人回到工作壓力沒有那麼大的原單位，其他的人因為薪資的問題，或是離家比較近的問題選擇平調，所以現在離職的部分，謝署長認為只有8個人是覺得工作壓力太大，不適應資安署，所以請調到別的單位，因此整個離職率，謝署長說，以不適應來說，大概只有0.4%。請問一下部長，你認為資安署這個離職率到底是多少？請說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：我這邊拿到的數字，以今年來講，大概有24個人離職，但是比例上，剛剛署長解釋了，中間有很多原因，當然我還是認為資安署的工作真的是過重，怎麼樣去調配人力跟未來資安工作……"],["李委員昆澤：部長，離職率就是以42人來計算，你們說只有8人是因為工作壓力的問題離開或請調，這樣是粉飾太平，這是第一。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["李委員昆澤：第二，我看數產署跟資安署的離職狀況，有初步去瞭解相關離職率的問題，我一開始看到資安署跟數產署提供給我的資料，看起來工作狀況還算穩定，但是我仔細再看相關資料就覺得不對，因為如果用離職率跟離職人數來回推，數產署跟資安署在職人數應該是300人以上，但是你們的預算員額卻只有150至165人之間，部長，這又是粉飾太平，為了離職率要好看一點，所以把員額從150人擴大分母成為300以上，來，說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我看的不是那個number，我看的是離職人數，我剛剛特別講我看的是人數，所以離職率的計算我覺得的確是個問號，不過我重要看的是剛剛每個署的離職人數。"],["李委員昆澤：你的離職人數大概是有兩種計算公式，一種是期末在職人數加上期間的離職人數，或是期初在職人數加上期末在職人數除以二，這應該是一個基本的公式。不過，部長，我已經講得很明白，從資安署謝署長剛剛說明42人的離職，他只用8人作為計算的基礎，這是不對的，這是欺騙社會大眾，我認為不可取；第二，數產署還有資安署相關的離職率計算，也是粉飾太平，你要嚴加督促。"],["黃部長彥男：好、好。"],["李委員昆澤：好，我現在來回到推動本土繁體中文AI模型，這個議題來請教一下部長，現在AI的ChatGPT相關的中文模型，基本是以英文加上簡體中文作為計算的基礎，對於繁體中文來說，相關的環境、數據、模型、產業政策、科技發展、區域合作，以及科技民主紅利如何讓全民共享？針對繁體中文AI模型的建立，數發部有什麼具體的政策？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們推動主權的AI，當然資料的共用很重要，資料的部分請資料創新司來做個說明。"],["李委員昆澤：來。"],["莊司長明芬：報告委員，對於資料應用的部分，過往有開放資料的處理，所以在過往10年開放資料總共有五萬多筆，依據我們做TAIDE的訓練，有三分之一的資料量大概是使用開放資料，這部分我們當然會持續努力；再來就是擴充的部分，近期也會找相關部會就中文語料部分來對於著作財產權……"],["李委員昆澤：好。"],["莊司長明芬：因為在訓練資料的時候必須要有著作財產權的合法性，這部分我們也會找一些部會來溝通。"],["李委員昆澤：好，司長，簡單的詢問你們，因為推動本土繁體中文AI模型是未來科技發展的重要基礎，我們必須要降低對於外國技術或服務的依賴，要強化臺灣本土的實力，推動發展跟普及，我看TWNIC就是台灣網路資訊中心的2024台灣網路報告，雖然使用ChatGPT的人口逐漸增加，但是使用者比例大概集中於40歲以下或具有大學以上學歷為主要族群，所以我們必須要更普及；另外我們具有民主自由的優勢，作為自由民主國家所擁有言論自由的環境，能夠讓AI數據收集更多元且具有代表性，這種開放數據的環境是推動本土繁體中文AI模型的一大優勢，也是國際合作的一個亮點，這對於提升國家自主性跟國家競爭力也是重要的方向，臺灣在語言文化的自主性及數據安全方面，如果沒有做好AI繁體中文的重要基礎，我們將會喪失主導權。","另外，我看南韓有成立世宗學堂改革方案，部長應該知道了，他們建置AI的i-世宗學堂平台作為推廣韓語的前哨站，在世界各地設立伺服器讓學員能更方便學習韓語，數發部何時會跟進？對本國的技術有沒有信心？部長您說一下。"],["黃部長彥男：我們有自己的訓練模型，至於教育的推廣這部分，我們會看看怎麼跟其他部會共同合作。"],["李委員昆澤：未來這是一個重要建置的方向。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["李委員昆澤：另外，我們也要滿足在地的模型、在地的需求來促進數位的平等。因為我認為本土AI模型不只是技術的議題，更是文化保存的問題，本土AI模型更能掌握臺灣特有的社會文化背景，而且對於語言障礙的群體、教育程度較低及高齡人口是特別重要的，國際AI大廠這些巨頭的AI模型有強大的技術能力，但是他們對語言文化的掌握還是不足，對繁體中文的環境還是不足，我們本土AI模型能夠深入捕捉這一些語言的細節，能夠解決在國際工具使用中，因為識別錯誤或表達不準的問題。部長，你有注意到這一些嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：所以我們才說要推動主權的AI，我們要有自己的AI model，我們現在已經跟國科會合作，包含像TAIDE的一些模型訓練，本土的話就是回應剛剛委員的關心。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，AI模型很重要的就是AI語言助理，它能夠進一步強化對母語、對方言的一些理解，也能夠為高齡者、語言障礙的群體或偏鄉居民提供便利，數發部有沒有類似AI的這種助理工具？有沒有朝這個方面去推動？部長，你講一下。"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一些平台像AI Bot這樣的計畫在進行，除了提供一些工具給政府部門使用以外，也給民眾使用，這個有在規劃中。"],["李委員昆澤：部長，對於推動這些AI本土模型，你有沒有什麼具體的目標？我們是希望短期、中期、長期有具體的目標，我簡單的建議：短期目標1至2年，要建立本土繁體中文的語料庫，開發針對特定領域AI模型的原型，推出分眾的AI素養課程；中期目標3至5年要建立具有國際競爭力的本土AI模型，要形成完整AI人才的培育體系，建立AI的倫理治理框架；長期目標5至10年，要成為華語AI技術的全球標竿，輸出臺灣AI技術跟治理的相關經驗，還要建立具有國際影響力的AI生態系統。針對我的建議，部長，說明一下你的意見跟看法。"],["黃部長彥男：委員建議很好，我們再把未來推動的政策跟計畫看能不能朝這個目標來努力。"],["李委員昆澤：部長要全力督促。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["李委員昆澤：數發部從成立到現在，從之前的唐鳳部長到現在的黃部長，我都跟你們有討論過數發部相關的文官體系、行政程序、內部文化的建立，因為數發部是新成立的部會，它從各部會調集人馬來成立數位部，唐部長是非常有創意的人，但是他對行政體系、文官體系不是那麼理解，而黃部長也來自產業民間，所以相關行政體系的建立內部文化、尊重公務員、尊重專業、建立效率，未來這樣一個數位產業重要的部會，部長，你的責任很重啊，是很重啊！包括對相關數位產業的政策，以及對內部文官體系程序的建立，效率講了那麼久，我們社會大眾其實對數發部還是蠻失望的，我坦白的說啦，部長要全力的督促。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員的建議。"],["主席：謝謝李委員，接下來請陳素月召委發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157769","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157769","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083602a56bcfe99cbaef0ca1a359a53f99ce194948cb68dbf16ab3ff16b6b2a727ff65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:36:10 - 09:48:16","影片長度":"00:12:06","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:36:10+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:48:16+08:00","duration":726,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.3553437500000003,"end":5.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.308468750000001,"end":7.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.93596875,"end":15.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.037218750000001,"end":15.134093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.20159375,"end":15.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.31971875,"end":15.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.66971875,"end":20.550968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.669093750000002,"end":21.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.765968750000003,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.71096875,"end":23.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":23.89221875,"end":23.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.297218750000003,"end":25.883468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.69346875,"end":27.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.90409375,"end":29.984093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.844718750000002,"end":32.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.10596875,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.73846875,"end":38.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.77159375,"end":46.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.690343750000004,"end":48.040343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.360968750000005,"end":50.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.02721875,"end":55.735343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.29221875,"end":60.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.641593750000006,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.12596875,"end":68.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.47159375000001,"end":71.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.08721875,"end":73.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.07409375,"end":75.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.71096875,"end":86.36346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.95409375,"end":89.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.97471875000001,"end":93.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.26534375,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.65721875000001,"end":99.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.77909375,"end":110.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.92659375000001,"end":101.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.06159375,"end":101.09534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.11221875000001,"end":101.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.64659375000001,"end":111.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.03034375,"end":125.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.26034375,"end":125.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.46284375,"end":125.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.51346875,"end":125.54721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.54721875000001,"end":126.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.01971875000001,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.10409375,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.17159375000001,"end":147.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.37409375000001,"end":126.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.81596875,"end":134.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.30346875,"end":147.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.56909375,"end":147.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":147.83909375000002,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.85596875000002,"end":148.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.14284375,"end":148.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.19346875000002,"end":148.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.26096875000002,"end":150.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.18471875,"end":167.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.28596875000002,"end":150.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.23846875,"end":157.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.24096875,"end":168.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.39284375,"end":186.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.15784375,"end":232.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.31596875000002,"end":201.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.19909375,"end":220.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.59909375,"end":226.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.73721875,"end":235.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.31471875000003,"end":236.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.19221875000002,"end":238.13721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.67721875,"end":242.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.12784375,"end":244.78596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.32596875000002,"end":246.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.69284375,"end":249.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.30409375000002,"end":256.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.40846875,"end":263.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.61409375,"end":268.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.15346875,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.02221875000004,"end":272.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.96284375,"end":275.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.76846875,"end":277.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.69221875,"end":279.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.75096875,"end":280.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.47659375,"end":295.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.40659375,"end":301.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.55346875000004,"end":305.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.56534375,"end":307.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.57346875,"end":310.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.96971875,"end":311.50971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.48846875000004,"end":312.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.33221875000004,"end":325.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.90409375,"end":331.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.79346875000005,"end":339.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.84284375000004,"end":346.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.28909375,"end":350.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.49096875000004,"end":361.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.50596875,"end":362.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.94034375,"end":368.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.34034375000005,"end":370.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.34846875000005,"end":372.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.18784375,"end":373.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.96409375,"end":374.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.21721875000003,"end":374.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.33534375000005,"end":374.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.50409375000004,"end":374.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.89096875,"end":386.38409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.38409375000003,"end":386.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.71721875000003,"end":388.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.28659375,"end":390.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.31159375000004,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.64471875000004,"end":394.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.53471875,"end":403.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.83284375000005,"end":408.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.54096875000005,"end":414.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.85221875,"end":416.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.04596875000004,"end":419.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.67846875000004,"end":421.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.20971875000004,"end":423.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.16721875,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.88846875,"end":434.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.23346875000004,"end":432.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.47784375000003,"end":441.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.15596875000006,"end":445.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.15534375000004,"end":446.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.92721875,"end":447.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.96096875,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.97784375000003,"end":450.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":450.69471875000005,"end":450.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.77909375,"end":451.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.03221875,"end":451.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.21784375000004,"end":451.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.23471875,"end":451.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.25159375000004,"end":451.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.65659375,"end":451.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.70721875000004,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.43284375,"end":453.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.56784375,"end":453.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.20909375,"end":453.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.58034375000005,"end":455.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.84159375,"end":457.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":457.15784375000004,"end":462.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.38909375000003,"end":470.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":468.48096875000005,"end":469.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.06721875000005,"end":479.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.50971875000005,"end":473.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.10784375000003,"end":484.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.09034375000005,"end":484.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":484.95096875,"end":484.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.96784375000004,"end":489.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.27159375,"end":486.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.87846875,"end":493.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.96221875000003,"end":496.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.88159375000004,"end":497.87721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.21471875000003,"end":508.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.71096875,"end":560.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.39471875,"end":568.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.24159375,"end":575.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.66659375,"end":578.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.8772187500001,"end":579.8897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.21034375,"end":581.9990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.6572187500001,"end":583.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.99034375,"end":588.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.4072187500001,"end":590.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.21284375,"end":604.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.3372187500001,"end":612.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.99409375,"end":625.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.59971875,"end":627.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.9834687499999,"end":629.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.8059687500001,"end":631.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.7803437499999,"end":632.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.53971875,"end":633.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.63221875,"end":641.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.50846875,"end":645.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.74846875,"end":647.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.0647187500001,"end":648.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.95909375,"end":649.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":650.98409375,"end":652.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.0890937500001,"end":668.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.53409375,"end":672.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.85409375,"end":678.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.7265937500001,"end":679.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.24971875,"end":679.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.2665937500001,"end":679.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.19471875,"end":681.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.2534687500001,"end":682.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.2322187500001,"end":688.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.0247187500001,"end":688.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.19346875,"end":688.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.9697187500001,"end":706.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.9734687499999,"end":692.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.2265937500001,"end":692.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.5365937500001,"end":708.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.71346875,"end":709.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.2322187500001,"end":725.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":723.34409375,"end":725.65596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.393,"end":7.115,"text":"好謝謝召委請黃部長黃部長好來部長早委員好我從來沒有看到我們沛翔委員這麼生氣的嚇我一跳這個最主要我特別要提醒當部長的人當長官的人"},{"start":33.171,"end":58.473,"text":"一定要特別去注意任何事情尊重三分如果你不尊重整個文官體制那文官體制雖承受不了他就會認知為霸凌那我今天特別要來請教我們部長也就是在11月29號"},{"start":61.687,"end":73.134,"text":"第19屆資安機能金頓獎致詞的時候你特別提到說每一年你我們貴單位"},{"start":76.769,"end":77.249,"text":"委員委員"},{"start":99.841,"end":100.281,"text":"委員：林國成委員"},{"start":125.273,"end":125.653,"text":"林國成委員"},{"start":152.074,"end":167.05,"text":"因為部長你要知道我這麼尊敬他 故意人不能亂講話所以我坦白講 你看連你到外面支持我們都非常注意你可以去發現到 立法委員不是傻瓜"},{"start":168.471,"end":168.691,"text":"林國成"},{"start":187.299,"end":216.879,"text":"由其主管數位所有產花發展的跟監督的業務的情況之下一個所長講出來的話是涵蓋整個部裡面所有的政策所以這個要特別因為如果是誤解那也就誤解連我就覺得不可能做到的啊因為一年我們治安所有的學生畢業也只不過是一萬七千人你們就可以網羅五千個人"},{"start":217.94,"end":242.719,"text":"這些是有所出入的所以我希望部長這個以後在外面的政策當然要謹言慎行不要讓人家產生這個誤解那就不好嘛其實我坦白跟你講我上一次對整個你們兩署的東西也就是"},{"start":244.161,"end":269.68,"text":"低薪福利差加班費砍掉這個我是不以為然的那在這個部分我必須要去提醒到現在你們都沒有去解釋為什麼為什麼所以你們可以看113年跟114年拜託你們的加班費兩項獎金也好加班費也好都是遞減加班費遞減27%那獎金"},{"start":273.993,"end":294.371,"text":"百分之十七這個部分我還是要提醒部長外公啊對我們公務人員也不要那麼刻薄但是他有一定的加班跟一定的這些獎金的制度所以部長你特別特別要提醒一下要注意這些啦好"},{"start":296.479,"end":311.325,"text":"博廷我現在又要講霸凌的事我請問一下我們論信管理還有我們資安署有你主管這些你們到底現在調查到什麼程度"},{"start":313.939,"end":338.93,"text":"我們啟動調查以後就外部專家委員包括心理諮商室跟律師那這個報告會在12月11號以前出來那我們會根據這個報告的結果做立即處置這個是我們目前在進行中好啦 伯弟我跟你講現在花生中央部會確確實實有很多部會啦那當然我們也是民內在內啦所以我還是要提醒部長真的"},{"start":340.21,"end":368.142,"text":"關苗殺人是非常重要不信事情不要再發生因為我一向都非常尊敬你是從業界來你是一個看起來就是溫溫如牙我希望這個事情除了你的政策管好你這些人員還是要去管好好不好好那我現在就特別要跟來那個那個我們那個"},{"start":369.746,"end":374.268,"text":"主席處處長來上來協助一下來好來主席處長部長你也要在啊因為我執行是執行你來我在想齁三年來"},{"start":391.4,"end":415.359,"text":"我們徵購機房徵購機房這裡面就包括在一般行政資訊管理跟設備投資編列總共的預算4000多萬然後聯繫三年加起來7600萬也就是購置機房我真的很納悶"},{"start":417.093,"end":440.739,"text":"你這個機房每一年購置你到底目的何在?你是在養黃金喔?還是在挖礦?現在很流行挖礦是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡挖礦你知道嗎?部長挖礦就是說機房很多就要挖挖挖挖挖挖不然你們為什麼連續三年7600萬都是在購置機房來部長你說一下那個"},{"start":448.133,"end":450.699,"text":"這我要請那個我們主席處長來好來處長你說明為什麼報告委員齁那"},{"start":455.922,"end":479.291,"text":"主要部的資訊他是一部兩署是共用的他並不會在部裡面不是我講的是我講的是購置機房啦其他的部分不要講為什麼會這樣啊因為機房是等於三個機關共用一個機房所以他必須比較大一點那因為現在我們的系統也蠻多需要做整合包括"},{"start":480.712,"end":495.267,"text":"對外面的所以必須就是會陸續來徵購這個機房這個機房你每年都購買機房那這個購買機房你們現在是都是用租的嘛那為什麼人員有成長這麼大嗎"},{"start":496.969,"end":525.334,"text":"我跟你講部長我坦白跟你講你也編列預算也不會這麼細啦我希望本席提出來的問題你們好好解釋因為我看出來就是不正常就是不是在我養網金就是在挖礦啊不然你們也每一年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房所以這個部分部長你要把它當成一回事你不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了你不能怪我因為我是理性問政"},{"start":526.795,"end":546.014,"text":"該給的我一定給但是你像現在處長所講的這樣我是不能接受的你要好好的去把它列出來為什麼連續三年連續三年甚至於你把那個相片都照來我認為是一個事實是有必要那當然我們要支持啊我們一向我坦白跟你講"},{"start":547.155,"end":574.181,"text":"現在的立法委員他是非常理性的啦該給的一定給啦不該給的一定刪啦所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下還有來那個處長我再請問一下另外支通安全的防疫計畫還有潤性強化計畫以及數位資深生態防護推動總共編"},{"start":577.041,"end":604.556,"text":"一億兩千萬請問一下啊這個項目都不是一樣嗎啊為什麼要編都同同樣是這樣啊然後編編這個預算所以處長你也不要跟我答覆那為什麼會這樣你也不要答覆實體下你來解釋我認為有理由那沒話講但是這個整個部分在我們翻這些資料你們都不寫清楚啊"},{"start":605.416,"end":605.957,"text":"還有最後一個"},{"start":626.656,"end":641.76,"text":"最後一個系統開花業務都不變喔出定業務不變喔不變但是為何增加今年增加一百四十九萬七千塊為什麼你的系統開花業務為什麼出定為什麼這個是資訊處處長簡單回答"},{"start":654.287,"end":681.03,"text":"委員報告就是因為我們的公共系統是向上集中到我們部會來那我們的這些公共系統包含官網、EIP跟供應系統這些功能的話就是每年要做一些功能的徵修對所以會有一些系統開發好我要拜託齁銀端黃火軟體這不是買過了嗎去年不是買過了為什麼一買再買呢為什麼為什麼那個是每年的收權費"},{"start":682.681,"end":683.682,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":706.656,"end":724.698,"text":"是台灣的建設我們不會砍人民的福祉我們不會砍其他的部分一分一毫民脂民膏都不能浪費這一點我要特別提醒部長那我也特別請處長你們要該解釋的要結束清楚好不好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":188,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時36分）謝謝召委，請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員國成：部長早。我從來沒有看到沛祥委員這麼生氣。"],["黃部長彥男：對，嚇我一跳。"],["林委員國成：我特別要提醒，當部長的人、當長官的人一定要特別去注意，任何事情要尊重三分，如果不尊重整個文官體制，文官體制承受不了就會認知為霸凌。我今天特別要請教部長，在11月29號第19屆資安技能金盾獎致詞的時候，你特別提到每一年貴單位要任用5,000個人，我這裡必須要提醒，施政不能靠口號、不能隨便亂開支票，人家說「上不正即下歪」，所以你會開這種空頭支票，底下的人就有樣學樣，若沒樣就自己想，所以才會造成現在賴總統、卓院長都跟全國人民道歉，霸凌的問題當然是環環相扣。部長，你在11月29號有沒有講貴部要任用5,000個資安人員？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，我的意思是我們會訓練5,000個人員，這5,000人是我們資安的培訓……"],["林委員國成：你們怎麼訓練？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有不同的課程，可以由資安署做個報告，但這個不是我們要補實，我們沒有那麼多名額，我們是要培養資安人員到政府跟業界去服務。"],["林委員國成：你要講清楚啊！"],["黃部長彥男：那個記者在這邊報導，確實……"],["林委員國成：你要講清楚啦！部長，你要知道，我很尊敬你，老實人不能亂講話。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員國成：我坦白講，連你到外面致詞，我們都非常注意，你可以發現到立法委員不是塑膠，連你在外面所講的話，我們都知道，那也沒有關係，不管是記者誤解或者你的幕僚給你的資訊是誤解，我們姑且不談，只是讓你有一個警惕。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員國成：尤其在主管所有數位產業發展跟監督業務的情況之下，一個首長講出來的話是涵蓋整個部的所有政策，所以要特別注意，如果是誤解，那也就是誤解，連我都覺得不可能做到，因為一年所有資安畢業的學生也只不過是1萬7,000人，你們就可以網羅5,000個人，這些是有所出入的，所以我希望部長以後在外面談政策當然要謹言慎行。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["林委員國成：不要讓人家產生誤解，那就不好了。我坦白跟你講，我上一次對於整個你們兩署的部分，也就是低薪、福利差、加班費砍掉，這個我是不以為然的，在這個部分我必須要去提醒，到現在你們都沒有去解釋為什麼，所以你們可以看113年跟114年的數字，拜託，你們有兩項，獎金也好，加班費也好，都是遞減，加班費遞減27%，獎金是17%，這個部分我還是要提醒部長，我跟你說，對員工、對我們公務人員也不要那麼刻薄，他們有一定的加班跟一定的獎金制度，所以部長你要特別提醒一下，要注意這些。","部長，我現在又要講霸凌的事，請問一下，關於韌性建設司還有資安署女主管這些事情，你們到底現在調查到什麼程度？"],["黃部長彥男：我們啟動調查以後就有外部專家委員，包括心理諮商師跟律師，這個報告會在12月11號以前出來，我們會根據這個報告的結果做立即處置，這個部分我們目前在進行中。"],["林委員國成：好啦，部長，我跟你講，現在發生在中央部會，確確實實有很多部會啦，當然我們也是名列在內，所以我還是要提醒部長，「官僚殺人」的問題真的非常重要，希望不幸的事情不要再發生。部長，我一向都非常尊敬你，你是從業界來，你看起來就是溫文儒雅、老實人，這個事情除了你的政策管好，這些人員還是要去管好，好不好？接下來請主計處處長上來協助一下。"],["主席：來，主計處處長。"],["林委員國成：部長你也要在，因為我是質詢你。我在想，3年來我們在增購機房的部分，這裡面就包括在「一般行政」資訊管理─設備投資，總共編列四千多萬的預算，連續3年加起來7,600萬，也就是購置機房的部分，我真的很納悶，你這個機房每一年都購置，到底目的何在？你是在養網軍還是在挖礦？現在很流行挖礦，是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡？你知道挖礦嗎？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：知道。"],["林委員國成：挖礦就是機種很多，就在那邊挖、挖、挖，不然你們為什麼連續3年共7,600萬都是在購置機房？來，部長，你說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：這個我要請我們主計處長來說明。"],["林委員國成：好，處長你來說明為什麼。"],["李處長錫東：報告委員，數發部的資訊是一部兩署共用的，它並不會在部裡面……"],["林委員國成：不是，我講的是購置機房啦，其他的部分不要講，為什麼會這樣？"],["李處長錫東：因為等於3個機關共用1個機房，所以它必須比較大一點，因為現在我們的系統也滿多，需要整合，包括對外面的，所以就是會陸續增購。"],["林委員國成：這個機房……"],["李處長錫東：當然也有計畫的啦。"],["林委員國成：你每年都編預算購買機房，而購買機房，你們現在都是用租的嘛，人員有成長這麼大嗎？我跟你講，部長，我坦白跟你講，你編列預算也不會這麼細啦，我希望本席提出來的問題你們要好好解釋，因為我看出來就是不正常，這不是在養網軍就是在挖礦，不然你們每年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房？部長，這個部分你要把它當成一回事，不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了，你不能怪我，因為我是理性問政，該給的我一定給，但是像現在處長所講的這樣，我是不能接受的，你要好好的去把它列出來，為什麼連續3年都編？甚至你可以把那個相片都照過來，我認為是一個事實、是有必要的話，那當然我們要支持啊！我坦白跟你講，現在的立法委員是非常理性的啦，該給的一定給，不該給的一定刪啦，所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下。","處長，我再請問一下，資通安全的防禦計畫還有韌性強化計畫，以及數位資安生態防護推動總共編1億2,000萬，請問一下，這個項目都不是一樣嗎？為什麼要編？同樣是這樣，然後就編這個預算，處長，你也不要跟我答復為什麼會這樣，你也不要答復，請私底下來跟我解釋，我認為有理由，那沒話講，但是這整個部分，我們在翻這些資料的時候覺得你們都不寫清楚，都在打混仗，這個部分就這樣分一分，然後整個大項目，而小項目你們也不講，還要勞駕我們每一筆、每一筆去對，說明你們也說明不清楚。請問一下，這個審預算怎麼會那麼輕鬆呢？","還有最後一個就是系統開發，業務都不變喔，處長，業務不變喔，部長，但是為何今年增加149萬7,000塊？為什麼？就是你的系統開發業務，處長，為什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：請資訊處處長簡單說明一下。"],["周處長智禾：跟委員報告，就是因為我們的共用系統是向上集中到我們部會來，我們的這些共用系統包含官網、EIP跟公文系統，這些功能每年要做一些功能增修，所以會有一些系統開發的……"],["林委員國成：好，我要拜託一點，關於你們的雲端防火軟體，這不是買過了嗎？去年不是買過了，為什麼一買再買呢？為什麼？"],["周處長智禾：那個是每年的授權費，現在雲端大概都是採1年授權1次，所以每年都要買授權。"],["林委員國成：好，關於系統開發增加的部分，我也希望你們能夠講清楚，有理由的我們絕對支持，但是沒有理由的，部長，請原諒，我們該砍的一定砍，本黨已經很清楚的告訴大家，只要是臺灣的建設，我們不會砍，人民的福祉，我們不會砍，其他的部分一分一毫民脂民膏都不能浪費，這一點我要特別提醒部長。我也要特別請處長，你們該解釋的要解釋清楚，好不好？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，再跟委員報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員。接下來請李昆澤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157768","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157768","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360aaca075a0f8d4ddbca1a359a53f99ce194948cb68dbf16abd197f29790cd35605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林沛祥","委員發言時間":"09:26:46 - 09:36:00","影片長度":"00:09:14","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:26:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:36:00+08:00","duration":554,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.6715937499999995,"end":5.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.9372187499999995,"end":6.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.218468750000003,"end":15.657218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.26471875,"end":24.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.820343750000003,"end":36.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.41346875,"end":44.445968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.15471875,"end":45.205343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.205343750000004,"end":59.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.23034375,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.26409375,"end":47.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.063468750000006,"end":63.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.06721875000001,"end":67.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.59846875000001,"end":69.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.78784375000001,"end":72.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.96471875,"end":77.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.53784375000001,"end":82.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.42721875000001,"end":85.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.50284375000001,"end":91.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.18971875000001,"end":100.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.69596875,"end":92.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.02784375,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.24034375000001,"end":118.39221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.79721875000001,"end":143.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.02971875,"end":147.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.42971875,"end":149.94846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.74159375000002,"end":156.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.68159375000002,"end":162.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.75659375,"end":163.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.27534375000002,"end":171.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.25346875000002,"end":169.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.90284375000002,"end":175.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.14284375,"end":180.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.55159375000002,"end":178.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.71159375000002,"end":181.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.74096875,"end":182.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.55096875,"end":184.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.66471875000002,"end":184.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.23409375,"end":185.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.35221875000002,"end":189.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.09846875000002,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.16034375,"end":202.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.69971875000002,"end":205.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.96909375,"end":214.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.51221875000002,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.23284375,"end":220.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.32971875,"end":223.20284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.07221875000002,"end":222.35909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.87784375,"end":240.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.32221875000002,"end":243.08159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.30096875,"end":243.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.22909375,"end":244.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.08971875,"end":247.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.26221875000002,"end":248.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.58284375000002,"end":249.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.59971875000002,"end":248.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.45596875,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.85221875000002,"end":255.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.10909375,"end":260.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":262.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.03221875,"end":262.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.58909375,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.06971875,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.46534375000005,"end":273.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.80659375,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.02034375,"end":285.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.75846875,"end":286.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.45034375,"end":286.55159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.56846875,"end":295.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.74409375000005,"end":297.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.41034375000004,"end":306.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.23159375,"end":313.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.75409375000004,"end":318.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.61409375,"end":320.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.99346875000003,"end":331.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.06784375,"end":335.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.48096875000005,"end":334.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.03346875,"end":338.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.26971875000004,"end":336.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.90659375,"end":343.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.21784375000004,"end":343.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.25159375000004,"end":343.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.31909375000004,"end":343.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.45409375,"end":344.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.17971875,"end":344.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.31471875,"end":344.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.34846875,"end":344.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.44971875000005,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.51721875000004,"end":344.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.56784375,"end":344.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.60159375,"end":344.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.77034375,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.02346875,"end":345.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.81659375000004,"end":345.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.85034375000004,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.03596875,"end":346.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.05284375,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.58846875,"end":356.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.73471875,"end":360.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.70471875000004,"end":367.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.03284375000004,"end":374.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.64784375000005,"end":372.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.03159375,"end":375.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.47846875000005,"end":384.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.78096875,"end":386.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.87346875000003,"end":406.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.28534375000004,"end":397.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.40284375000005,"end":401.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.59659375,"end":404.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.16596875000005,"end":413.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.13971875000004,"end":412.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.02971875000003,"end":413.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.44721875000005,"end":422.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.36596875000004,"end":426.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.25596875,"end":423.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.59721875,"end":427.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.63096875,"end":428.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.03159375,"end":428.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.89221875000004,"end":457.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.90909375,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.83284375000005,"end":462.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.51596875,"end":460.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.71409375,"end":462.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.01346875,"end":484.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.14534375000005,"end":483.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.02284375000005,"end":492.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.72721875,"end":486.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.55409375000005,"end":486.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.80284375,"end":490.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.39284375000005,"end":497.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.40971875,"end":492.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.56159375000004,"end":492.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.87721875000005,"end":502.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.99534375,"end":498.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.56846875,"end":514.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.81971875,"end":532.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.0322187500001,"end":547.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.7140937500001,"end":543.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.47721875,"end":549.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.98721875,"end":550.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.3415937500001,"end":550.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.7803437499999,"end":550.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.6953437500001,"end":554.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.711,"end":5.114,"text":"有請黃部長好黃部長"},{"start":15.216,"end":44.157,"text":"委員長在你這份報告這個預算收支預算報告的第三頁有講到一句話就是說這個提升整體通訊網路韌性裡面包括保障國民之數位人權那我想請問一下最基本的網路上的禮儀算不算數位人權啊網路上的禮儀啊就是說你寫的字啊這個用詞用字是不是應該算是算是人權的一種"},{"start":45.196,"end":45.936,"text":"您覺得這樣算不算霸凌?"},{"start":73.035,"end":100.154,"text":"部長請你聽到這句話如果你是我的下屬你會不會覺得像霸凌這是網路上喔因為我們知道網路上驚嘆號表示很氣憤才會用驚嘆號你覺得這樣算網路霸凌就是這個剛剛有講過像這種情緒的這是一個長官因為我們是如果有一天如果您是用這種語氣混蛋加驚嘆號直接命令你下面的下屬"},{"start":101.275,"end":117.441,"text":"他們感受就是這樣喔這是不是所以我們這樣我說我看到這個保障國民數位人權的時候我就很好奇說那我們的數發部有沒有把我們的基層工作人員當作一般的勞工還是說我們數發部的基層工作人員就沒有所謂的數位人權嗎"},{"start":119.477,"end":146.955,"text":"當然委員這個就是我剛剛講就是說我們在這個事前我們在做進步調查那調查結果很快就會出來那我們會採取適當措施沒有錯就是我剛剛講說工作壓力下情況工作壓力很大情況下也不能夠對在情緒上做任何的這個發洩所以這個的訓練中所以我剛剛特別強調我也跟我的同仁講我們要有那個那我想請問一下啦這邊有個關鍵的東西我因為我知道這個報告的時候我想請問一下什麼叫打岔啊"},{"start":148.439,"end":149.039,"text":"請問打X什麼意思?您知道嗎?"},{"start":164.472,"end":184.103,"text":"這是你們部裡面發生的事情你是最高主管你也知道以企業來講一向都最高主管完全掌控完全負責對吧我原理的資訊我都完全了解那那個您的這個是那請問什麼是打叉我的資訊完全了解那請問什麼是打叉打叉是什麼直接扣烤雞嗎是不是這個這個是不是你直接一烤雞來做威脅"},{"start":185.623,"end":205.14,"text":"請部長回答yes or no還是我不知道 or I don't know這個就是我剛剛講就是說需要內部給我調查報告其實那個很多的那個剛剛講就是我還是回到那個原則就是秀秀長請問您知道這個狀況嗎請問您知道打叉是什麼意思嗎打叉動不動一個叉兩個叉三個叉五燈講啊"},{"start":207.331,"end":222.797,"text":"請問打叉是什麼意思?是考積直接降一級嗎?還是一個什麼懲處之類的嗎?你有掌握這個狀況嗎?趙偉跟委員報告齁那個部分我們會列入專案小組的那個調查我們等於雙方的這個當事人都甚至是說我也很好奇啦齁"},{"start":224.105,"end":247.06,"text":"週末例假各科都有事然後科長48個小時沒宵沒席再打一個叉那想請問一下這個基層公務人員有沒有勞基法的保障啊那基層公務人員四十八小時待命週末四十八小時待命會不會違反勞基法啊沒宵沒席就要打叉沒宵沒席就要考基屬份是不是額市處處長請問你知道這狀況嗎"},{"start":253.596,"end":272.877,"text":"就這個部分我們會利用專案小組調查。你們千萬不要給我寫個什麼利益良善的東西出來喔。不會不會。你們千萬不要寫個利益良善的東西出來喔。謝謝委員提醒。不然話說真的不是只有我今天會看到會生氣喔。所有人都會生氣喔。"},{"start":274.844,"end":297.635,"text":"我這是很在議事廳在議事殿堂裡面直接質詢每一個都有每一個都有逐字稿的記錄那這件事情不能就這樣了之是如果這邊跟我講說數位人權四個字數位人權四個字然後我們基層公務員都不被尊重基層公務員最基本的網路用詞這種混蛋打岔胡搞"},{"start":299.431,"end":320.017,"text":"那我還不知道說我們這個數發布連最基本的數位人權說我們要保障國民的數位人權還要打詐我不知道這個該怎麼講我不知道這該從何講起所以我認為部長您現在就是想法就因為我從資安署到這邊一路看過來四個字關關相互啊"},{"start":321.075,"end":347.271,"text":"周委已經很客氣特地把這件事情讓你們這種主促長出來講可是你們現在給我的態度就是沒關係我們等調查委員報告出來之後我們再想辦法大事化小小事化我們拖過去對吧不會大事小小事化我們不會嗎不會不會這邊講的話大家全部人都看著喔全部媒體都要看著喔對我知道就是我們根據調查報告我們會做適當的處理那如果你是主管你是現在最高主管你認為你該不該道歉發生這麼大風波應不應該道歉"},{"start":347.671,"end":375.485,"text":"我為我所有同仁道歉是應該道歉因為這個確實是我督導不周讓他發生這樣的事情但是我也講說這個事情本身我們先調查報告我們還是等調查報告出來再做適當的補充部長至少你肯說為你的同仁黨來說出道歉這點我給你肯定因為很多人是不願意道歉我特別跟同仁講就是說我們部的工作很重但是我們要有愛的教育鐵的紀律鐵的紀律還是要有再來其實部長我還有另外一個議題也是很重要的"},{"start":376.565,"end":405.286,"text":"其實這個跟你比較無關啦其實這個案子上個這個案子跟現在這個案子跟上個案子其實跟你都是你是主管所以你要完全負責包括111現在已經老實講這是唐鳳部長留下來的東西可是我覺得這比較像是一個自我自嗨的這個所謂的safeguard自己保護自己有自我感覺良好的safeguard111防詐號碼知道吧那其實老實講媒體上面報的很大我們花了1200萬但是實質上我們有沒有保護到我們直接的人"},{"start":406.127,"end":409.45,"text":"所以說他是直接去跟所謂的末端使用者直接去touch"},{"start":432.828,"end":445.558,"text":"變成是說我們隨時隨地只要有一台50萬左右的機器我們只要一個犯罪集團隨便到鬧區掃一掃就可能掃到這些這些釣魚檢訊就繼續發送拜我們111的檢訊之外而且這111的檢訊還是我們國家花大錢去官方認證的有效檢訊他們不是這個沒有錯111防詐平台沒有被破解"},{"start":457.987,"end":461.69,"text":"但是他們直接略過防炸平台假冒成111這一樣嚴重啊"},{"start":488.007,"end":514.521,"text":"如果連PTT都在講的時候就表示說已經不是個案PTT在講東西通常都已經是很明顯了大家都看到了所以我們要來檢討對吧所以這個有防護的措施我們現在加強防護沒問題其實我們以前我質詢過的時候你也跟我提過我們正在做所謂的零信任網路零信任網路解決方案那我想知道說到目前為止這零信任網路解決方案目前進度是怎麼樣"},{"start":514.841,"end":542.282,"text":"我們現在已經有這個預計年底會有大概47個A級機關都會導入零星人網路所以當然我們會逐步的擴充但是這個零星人網路是很重要的一個防護的措施我們是極力推動那希望當然就資安法通過之後我們能夠加強對不管是CI或者是地方政府也推動零星人網路老師講防炸不會單單純純是數發部的數發部的業務可是防炸嚴格講起來現在不要是我個人全民都覺得防炸其實成效不是很好"},{"start":542.822,"end":550.155,"text":"那其實這點數發布我不能講說就是你們的責任但是你們應該要檢討我們繼續努力我們會認真地把這個工作做好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":133,"blocks":[["林委員沛祥：（9時26分）有請黃部長。"],["主席：好，黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員早。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，在你這份收支預算報告的第3頁有講到一句話，就是在提升整體通訊網路韌性裡面，包括保障國民之數位人權。我想請問一下，最基本的網路上的禮儀算不算數位人權啊？"],["黃部長彥男：網路上的禮儀……"],["林委員沛祥：就是你寫的字，用詞用字是否應該算是人權的一種？"],["黃部長彥男：用詞要小心。"],["林委員沛祥：要小心嘛，對不對？請教你一下，因為我以前在公部門待過，我知道公部門基層員工的辛苦，如果您是公部門的人，你忽然聽到這句話：混蛋！核稿人是瞎了嗎？為什麼是我在做你們核稿秘書？你覺得這樣算不算霸凌？你覺得這樣算不算霸凌？部長，請問你聽到這句話，如果你是我的下屬，你會不會覺得像霸凌？這是網路上，因為我們知道網路上表示很氣憤才會用驚嘆號，你覺得這樣算不算網路霸凌？"],["黃部長彥男：剛才講過，像這種情緒的……主管跟……"],["林委員沛祥：這是一個長官……如果有一天您是用這種語氣──混蛋加驚嘆號直接命令你下面的下屬，他們感受就是這樣喔。所以我看到這個保障國民數位人權的時候，我就很好奇，那我們的數發部有沒有把我們的基層公務人員當作一般的勞工？還是我們數發部的基層工作人員就沒有所謂的數位人權嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：當然，委員這個就是我剛剛講的，這個事情我們在做進一步調查，那調查結果很快就會出來，我們會採取適當處置。沒有錯，我剛剛講在工作壓力很大的情況下，也不能夠在情緒上做任何的發洩，所以這部分的訓練很重要，因此我剛剛特別強調，我也跟我的同仁講，我們要有那個……"],["林委員沛祥：我想請問一下，這邊有個關鍵的東西，因為我知道這個報告的時候，我想請問一下什麼叫打\"X\"？動不動就是一個\"X\"、兩個\"X\"，然後在立院裡面寫了10頁，如果在狀況外就打\"X\"，寫檢討報告說明不告知我的理由跟檢討，打\"X\"。請問打\"X\"什麼意思，您知道嗎？這是你們部裡面發生的事情，你是最高主管，你也知道以企業來講，一向都是最高主管完全掌控、完全負責，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：委員，你的資訊我都完全了解，您的這個是……"],["林委員沛祥：那請問什麼是打\"X\"？您對我的資訊完全了解，那請問什麼是打\"X\"？打\"X\"是什麼，直接扣考績嗎？是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：這個……"],["林委員沛祥：是不是直接以考績來做威脅？請部長回答Yes or No？還是我不知道、I don't know？"],["黃部長彥男：這個就是我剛剛講的，需要內部給我一個調查報告，我還是回到那個原則，我們……"],["林委員沛祥：人事處長，請問你知道這個狀況嗎？請問你知道打\"×\"是什麼意思嗎？動不動一個\"×\"、兩個\"×\"，三個\"×\"，五燈獎啊？請問打\"×\"是什麼意思？是考績直接降一級嗎？還是一個什麼懲處之類的嗎？你有掌握這個狀況嗎？"],["莫處長永榮：跟召委及委員報告，那個部分我們會列入專案小組的調查，等於雙方當事人……"],["林委員沛祥：甚至我也很好奇，週末、例假各科都有事，然後科長48小時沒消沒息再打一個\"×\"。想請問一下，基層公務人員有沒有勞基法的保障啊？基層公務人員週末48小時待命，會不會違反勞基法啊？沒消沒息就要打\"×\"、沒消沒息就要考績處分，是不是？人事處處長，請問你知道這個狀況嗎？"],["莫處長永榮：就這個部分，我們會列入專案小組調查。"],["林委員沛祥：你們千萬不要寫個什麼立意良善的東西出來喔！"],["莫處長永榮：不會。"],["林委員沛祥：你們千萬不要寫個立意良善的東西出來喔！"],["莫處長永榮：謝謝委員提醒。"],["林委員沛祥：說真的，不是只有我今天看到會生氣，所有人都會生氣，我是在議事殿堂裡面直接質詢，每一個都有逐字稿的紀錄，這件事情不能就這樣不了了之。"],["莫處長永榮：是。"],["林委員沛祥：你們在這邊跟我講「數位人權」4個字，然後我們基層公務人員都不被尊重，對基層公務人員最基本的網路用詞就是「混蛋」、「打\"×\"」、「胡搞」，那我就不知道數發部連最基本的數位人權，你們說要保障國民的數位人權還要打詐，我不知道這個該怎麼講、我不知道這該從何講起。部長，我從資安署一路看過來到這邊，就是4個字，「官官相護」啊！召委已經很客氣，特地點出這件事情讓你們主動出來講，可是你們現在讓我看到的態度就是，沒關係，等調查委員報告出來之後再想辦法，大事化小、小事化無，要把事情拖過去，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，不會大事化小、小事化無。"],["林委員沛祥：不會嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：不會、不會，我們會跟……"],["林委員沛祥：你在這邊講的話，全部的人都看著、全部媒體都看著喔！"],["黃部長彥男：對，我知道，我們根據調查報告會做適當的處理。"],["林委員沛祥：你現在是最高主管，你認為該不該道歉？發生這麼大的風波，應不應該道歉？"],["黃部長彥男：我為我的所有同仁道歉，是應該道歉，因為確實是我督導不周，讓這樣的事情發生，但是我也要講，針對這個事情本身，我們還是等調查報告出來再做適當的處理。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，至少你願意為你的同仁說出道歉，這點我給你肯定，因為很多人是不願意道歉的。"],["黃部長彥男：我特別跟同仁講，部的工作很重，但是我們要有愛的教育、鐵的紀律，鐵的紀律還是要有。"],["林委員沛祥：部長，我還有另外一個議題也是很重要的，其實這個跟你比較無關，現在這個案子跟上個案子，因為你是主管，所以你要完全負責，包括111，老實講，這是唐鳳前部長留下來的東西，可是我覺得這比較像是自嗨，所謂self-guard，自己保護自己、自我感覺良好。111防詐號碼知道吧？老實講，媒體上面報得很大，你們花了1,200萬，但是實質上有沒有保護到我們直接的……"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個是因為剛剛講的假冒的基地站，那是對2G的……"],["林委員沛祥：可是部長，這就是尷尬的地方，如果用幾十萬不到50萬的2G設備就可以破解我們初期1,200萬……"],["黃部長彥男：如果手機是用2G，也就是10年前的舊手機……"],["林委員沛祥：所以它是直接跟所謂的末端使用者（end user）去touch，變成隨時隨地只要有一臺50萬左右的機器，只要一個犯罪集團隨便到鬧區掃一掃就可能掃到這些，這些釣魚簡訊就繼續會發送。而且111的簡訊還是國家花大錢去官方認證的有效簡訊，沒有錯，111防詐平臺沒有被破解，但是他們直接略過防詐平臺，假冒成111，這一樣嚴重啊！"],["黃部長彥男：這個有幾個作法，一個是我們的通訊監察本來就會去偵測這種訊號，所以是抓得到人；另外，這些簡訊裡面都有網址，特別要強調，如果網址不是「.gov.tw」，就千萬不要點，也就是有雙重防護，一種是111，一種是……"],["林委員沛祥：這樣的案件其實在一個月之前就已經很多，如果連PTT都在講的時候，就表示已經不是個案，PTT在講的事情通常都已經是很明顯了，大家都看到了，所以我們要來檢討，對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：這個有防護的措施，我們現在加強防護，沒問題。"],["林委員沛祥：我之前質詢的時候，你也跟我提過你們正在做零信任網路解決方案，我想知道零信任網路解決方案到目前為止的進度是怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：預計年底有47個A級機關都會導入零信任網路，當然我們會逐步擴充，零信任網路是很重要的防護措施，我們會極力推動，在資安法通過之後，我們能夠加強CI部分，或者是地方政府也推動零信任網路。"],["林委員沛祥：老實講，防詐不會單純是數發部的業務，可是防詐嚴格講起來，不要說我個人，全民都覺得防詐成效不是很好，針對這一點，其實我不能講就是數發部的責任，但是你們應該要檢討。"],["黃部長彥男：我們繼續努力，我們會認真把這個工作做好。"],["林委員沛祥：好。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接下來有請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157767","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157767","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083603b5b11f1a5d8d8462ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a320617cb99a06a4423b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林思銘","委員發言時間":"10:47:56 - 10:57:50","影片長度":"00:09:54","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:47:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:57:50+08:00","duration":594,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.0934687499999995,"end":8.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.438468750000002,"end":16.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.607218750000001,"end":11.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.973468750000002,"end":16.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.12534375,"end":19.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.21784375,"end":37.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.32471875,"end":46.994093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.23034375,"end":50.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.432218750000004,"end":53.440343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.963468750000004,"end":66.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.65346875,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.53721875000001,"end":84.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.87846875000001,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.66221875000001,"end":95.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.99909375,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.07034375,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.33534375,"end":104.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.84159375,"end":106.57971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.06909375000001,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.88159375000001,"end":127.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.60596875,"end":148.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.61096875,"end":206.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.58096875,"end":232.51784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.51784375000003,"end":233.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.15909375,"end":233.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.19284375,"end":238.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.01471875000001,"end":246.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.33409375000002,"end":249.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.73034375,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.17221875,"end":263.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.36534375,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.47596875,"end":311.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.02534375000005,"end":306.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.47596875,"end":311.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.86409375,"end":320.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.92596875000004,"end":326.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.60096875,"end":323.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.52409375,"end":334.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.45096875,"end":342.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.97409375,"end":337.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.34534375000004,"end":337.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.36096875000004,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.02721875000003,"end":353.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.97221875,"end":352.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.71846875,"end":360.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.93659375000004,"end":368.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.68221875,"end":371.06159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.34846875000005,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.64346875,"end":374.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.02721875000003,"end":375.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.61784375,"end":375.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.97221875,"end":379.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.25909375000003,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.98846875000004,"end":386.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.27096875,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.52784375000005,"end":385.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.01284375,"end":386.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.43034375,"end":387.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.43846875,"end":390.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.28159375,"end":395.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.66534375000003,"end":398.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.86721875,"end":408.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.29159375,"end":413.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.22784375000003,"end":414.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.08846875,"end":427.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":427.64346875,"end":431.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.16221875,"end":429.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.81159375000004,"end":432.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.63846875,"end":434.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.05159375000005,"end":451.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.41596875000005,"end":455.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.80784375,"end":479.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.02784375000005,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.23846875000004,"end":487.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.03471875,"end":505.82534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.23971875,"end":501.18471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.18471875000006,"end":501.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.53909375,"end":501.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":506.46659375,"end":507.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":507.42846875000004,"end":530.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.83409375,"end":530.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":530.85096875,"end":530.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.88471875,"end":530.9522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":530.9522187499999,"end":530.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.96909375,"end":540.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":540.03096875,"end":551.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.56971875,"end":548.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.7590937500001,"end":553.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.77596875,"end":552.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.75034375,"end":565.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.18721875,"end":568.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.79409375,"end":571.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.0303437499999,"end":587.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.0790937500001,"end":583.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.07846875,"end":589.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.4409687500001,"end":589.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.18721875,"end":593.69346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.858,"end":7.1,"text":"謝謝主席我們請副秘書長麻煩副秘書長"},{"start":11.888,"end":36.431,"text":"副委員,我想先就公費助理的議題來詢問你我們看到國會助理是對我們立委問政非常重要的左右手在委員的問政及辦公室的運作都是要靠這些助理給我們充分的協助所以幕僚實際上就是我們委員整個職權行使的延伸"},{"start":37.592,"end":65.991,"text":"當然我們在分工上也包羅萬象不管是有跑行程有處理選服行政事務製作質詢稿撰寫相關的談餐研擬法案所以業務是非常的多元所以助理的專業水準高我們的立委的問政的品質水準也會這個相對的提高所以幕僚的性質也就是公費助理的角色"},{"start":67.112,"end":67.212,"text":"議員：林思銘"},{"start":84.909,"end":98.017,"text":"通常我們這個新鮮人跟這些資深助理會有一定的落差所以關於公費助理的待遇如何進一步的完善我們整個助理的一個"},{"start":99.653,"end":118.002,"text":"的流動率如何來降低一個流動率讓人才願意留下來為我們立法院來服務那這部分我想就叫我們的這個啊副秘書長我們也靠最近就是整個80事件所造成的重大職場的不友善的事件"},{"start":119.002,"end":148.072,"text":"所以我們立法院是否可以以身作則在公費助理長期處在一個高壓的備障狀態之下能夠關注我們助理的身心健康所以是否能夠打造適時紓壓的友善職場環境來提高助理的續航力在這一部分我們立法院有沒有相關的一些舉措相關的一個友善我們職場環境的一個相關的一個辦法或規定"},{"start":150.317,"end":168.113,"text":"謝謝委員的關心,我想公費助理的重要性,剛剛委員所說的那個內容我們都同意,而且非常認同。就委員所垂詢的,有關助理的薪資的編制跟"},{"start":171.596,"end":189.087,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":190.548,"end":204.535,"text":"其他部分剛剛委員所提到的我再補充一點就調薪的部分歷來公費助理調薪都依例都比照軍公教調薪的這種方式來辦理目前委員的助理薪資每個月"},{"start":207.096,"end":232.22,"text":"總數是45萬多元那當然注意的話是57萬多元那這部分會比照來做調整那另外委員所垂詢的這個目前的一個媒體上可能有這些霸凌的狀況產生那本院除了定有立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要連這個部分在助理的部分我們也是適用的"},{"start":232.68,"end":238.243,"text":"公費助理編列的預算中關於每會期每人的文康活動費的運用資訊好像不是很透明"},{"start":249.815,"end":274.374,"text":"就是說你對於這個相關這個助理的相關的文康活動費的運用他的整個資用的一個情形並沒有跟我們的助理工會做相關的一個討論所以是否未來可以就整個我們相關這些有關於助理的文康活動費或者相關的費用的支出能夠更加的公開"},{"start":275.655,"end":282.973,"text":"把整個運用的一個細項能夠跟助理工會來做充分的討論來符合我們公開透明的原則"},{"start":284.52,"end":310.213,"text":"好,謝謝委員的關心。這個部分有關於公費助理的一個文康活動費的補助的部分那我們都一直以來都是要參照本院職工文康活動的編列跟使用然後按年度來編列公費助理文康活動經費那我們也研擬了補助的一個要點草案那相關的一個事項會後會再與助理公會來做一個研討"},{"start":311.934,"end":334.034,"text":"我想剛才副委員你也同意說我們助理非常的辛苦那現在大概就是一年你剛才講是42萬45萬8千多元那一年如果說把公費的助理的預算如果調升大概21%一年的預算大概會增加多少"},{"start":337.066,"end":342.657,"text":"因為你也肯定說他們很辛苦嘛所以未來他們的待遇有沒有在於調高的可能性"},{"start":345.61,"end":367.741,"text":"這個部分我們﹖有沒有做研擬﹖目前未來可不可以做研擬﹖我想現在物價也一直調漲﹖助理公費的相關的待遇、薪資可不可以我們立法院再編列更多的預算讓我們立法委員能夠更在聘請助理方面能夠有更多的一個待遇來吸收到更好的一個人才"},{"start":368.737,"end":386.431,"text":"有沒有這種可能性,可不可以研擬啊?當然我們當然研擬有沒有是沒有問題啦。是幫我們助理來爭取權益啦。對,今天好像主計總署也有啊。我還是希望說你要去研擬相關可行性的方案。同仁也就這個部分表達一下他的看法,我建議這樣。你說請誰表達?主計總署今天也有。好啊,有沒有來?主計總署有沒有來?那個張專委。好,請專委喔。"},{"start":399.892,"end":407.543,"text":"你知道我的意思啦就是國會的助理公費助理的待遇有沒有調高的可能性學者現在物價的一個調漲"},{"start":411.328,"end":431.567,"text":"因為那個公費助理那個待遇他就是他不是我們主計總處來核定他待遇可不可以調整那如果當然如果待遇他能夠權責機關能夠讓核定他能夠調整的話那當然我們會配合編列預算主計總會配合嗎所以還是要由立法院來研擬可行性"},{"start":434.029,"end":451.277,"text":"副議員,我希望你們盡速釐出可行性的研究提供給我們司法及法制委員會另外對於我們立法院管理的職務宿舍中我們看六成是在審議會退休人員或他的眷屬無常使用"},{"start":452.632,"end":480.038,"text":"並未支付我們相關的租金或管理費這樣的一個情況未來要如何解決因為這樣做是不是會偏離說我們這個宿舍應該支持現職人員職務需要才去配給他宿舍如果你現在那麼多宿舍還是由這些過去審議會的這些相關的人員繼續在就是他的家屬繼續配置會不會背離我們的初衷"},{"start":481.457,"end":505.402,"text":"這個我們定有相關的要點那這個部分我們是不是容請那個中南部辦公室的卿主任來回答跟委員報告這個對眷屬宿舍的保障是在雖然在72年有一個宿舍那個事務管理規則裡面是沒有已經沒有眷屬宿舍可是在74年有做過解釋原來的原來的眷屬是有一個保障所以我們現在有在"},{"start":507.522,"end":529.987,"text":"民主議政園區里面還有36戶的住宿宿舍那現在因為經過時間的遞移的話我們現在現存有24戶那24戶奇怪的我們因為全部有72戶那我們現在也在做一些活化的計畫那我們因為他是公共財產不能夠委託經營所以我們跟國產署也有個共識可以用出產法的方式來對這個宿舍做一個活化的利用"},{"start":531.993,"end":550.645,"text":"對當然要活化利用我們都很贊同我是說現在是不是有這種就無償提供給這些家屬繼續使用收不回來的情形我因為是法定就是立法院行政院在這個部分有一個解釋函他對我們現在現存24戶他有個保障是對所以對他們有一個保障對是是OK好"},{"start":553.803,"end":568.504,"text":"但是我想這個就是提升他資產的管理效能你剛有提到就是未來會活化嗎所以相關宿舍管理的辦法是不是可以明確規範相關的條件還有相關租金的標準你們未來會不會訂定"},{"start":570.794,"end":593.626,"text":"響鐘響鐘"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":722,"blocks":[["林委員思銘：（10時48分）謝謝主席，我們請副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["林委員思銘：副秘，我想先就公費助理的議題詢問你。我們看到國會助理是我們立委問政非常重要的左右手，在委員的問政及辦公室的運作上，都要靠這些助理給我們充分的協助，所以幕僚實際上就是我們委員整個職權行使的延伸。當然，我們在分工上也包羅萬象，不管是跑行程，處理選服、行政庶務、製作質詢稿、撰寫相關的談參、研擬法案，所以業務是非常多元。","助理的專業水準高，立委的問政品質水準也會相對地提高，幕僚的性質也就是公費助理的角色可以說是非常地重要，它會影響到委員的問政以及立法的品質，也連動讓我們國會給國人的形象、公信力都會受到相關的影響。所以我們公費助理的待遇，通常新鮮人跟資深助理會有一定的落差，所以關於公費助理的待遇如何進一步地完善，讓整個助理高的流動率降低，讓人才願意留下來為我們立法院服務，這部分我想就教副秘書長，我們也看到最近霸凌所造成的重大職場不友善事件，所以我們立法院是否可以以身作則，在公費助理長期處在高壓的備戰狀態之下，能夠關注助理的身心健康？是否能夠打造適時紓壓的友善職場環境來提高助理的續航力？在這部分，我們立法院有沒有相關的舉措、相關友善職場環境的辦法或規定？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員的關心。我想公費助理的重要性，剛剛委員所說的內容，我們都同意，而且非常認同。就委員所垂詢有關助理的編制跟薪資部分，因為助理的部分是依照立法院組織法的規定，依照現行的規定，立法委員是雇主，所以這個部分我們尊重委員的用人權。其他的部分，除了剛剛委員提到的，我再補充一點，就調薪的部分，歷來公費助理調薪依例都比照軍公教調薪的方式辦理，目前委員的助理薪資每個月總數是四十五萬多元，黨團助理是五十七萬多元，這部分會比照來做調整。"],["林委員思銘：好。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：另外，委員垂詢目前媒體上可能有霸凌的狀況產生，本院訂有立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要點，在助理的部分也是適用的。"],["林委員思銘：OK，相關的法制面都……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：都有完備。"],["林委員思銘：有完善，OK。根據本席瞭解，公費助理編列的預算中關於每會期每人文康活動費用的運用資訊好像不是很透明，就是對於助理相關文康活動費的運用，整個支用的情形並沒有跟助理工會做討論，所以未來助理的文康活動費或者相關費用的支出是否能夠更加地公開，把整個運用的細項跟助理工會做充分的討論，以符合公開、透明的原則？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，謝謝委員的關心。有關於公費助理文康活動費的補助部分，我們一直以來都參照本院職工文康活動的編列跟使用，按年度編列公費助理文康活動經費。我們也研擬了補助的要點草案，相關的事項會後會再與助理工會做研討。"],["林委員思銘：OK。我想剛剛副秘也同意助理非常地辛苦，你剛剛講現在大概一年是四十二萬……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：45萬8,990元。"],["林委員思銘：四十五萬八千多元？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["林委員思銘：一年如果把公費助理的預算調升20%，一年的預算大概會增加多少？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分還要看預算……"],["林委員思銘：因為你也肯定他們很辛苦嘛。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["林委員思銘：所以未來他們的待遇有沒有再予以調高的可能性？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我們……"],["林委員思銘：有沒有做研擬？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前是還沒有，這個部分我們可以再研究一下。"],["林委員思銘：未來可不可以做研擬？現在物價也一直調漲，對於公費助理相關的待遇、薪資，我們立法院可不可以再編列更多的預算，讓立法委員在聘請助理方面能夠有更多的待遇來吸收更好的人才？有沒有這種可能性？可不可以研擬？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：研擬的部分當然是沒有問題，今天……"],["林委員思銘：幫我們助理爭取權益。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：今天好像主計總處也有來……"],["林委員思銘：我還是希望你們要去研擬相關可行性的方案。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：要不要請主計總處的同仁也就這個部分表達一下他的看法？"],["林委員思銘：OK。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我建議這樣。"],["林委員思銘：你說請誰表達？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：主計總處今天也有來。"],["林委員思銘：好啊，有沒有來？主計總處有沒有來？"],["主席：張專委。"],["林委員思銘：好，請專委。你知道我的意思啦，就是國會公費助理的待遇隨著現在物價的調漲，有沒有調高的可能性？"],["張專門委員家瑜：公費助理的待遇不是我們主計總處來核定其待遇可不可以調整，如果待遇的權責機關能夠核定調整的話，我們當然會配合編列預算。"],["林委員思銘：主計總處會配合嘛。"],["張專門委員家瑜：對，是。"],["林委員思銘：所以還是要由立法院來研擬可行性，好不好？"],["張專門委員家瑜：是。"],["林委員思銘：副秘，我希望你們儘速擬出可行性的研究提供給我們司法及法制委員會。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是，沒有問題。"],["林委員思銘：另外，我們立法院管理的職務宿舍中，有六成由省議會退休人員或其眷屬無償使用，並未支付我們相關的租金或管理費，這樣的情況未來要如何解決？因為這樣做是不是會偏離宿舍應該支持現職人員職務需要才去配給宿舍？如果現在那麼多宿舍還是由過去省議會的相關人員及其家屬繼續配置，會不會背離我們的初衷？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個我們訂有相關的要點，這個部分是不是容請中南部辦公室邱主任來回答？"],["林委員思銘：好。"],["邱主任俊龍：跟委員報告，有關對眷屬宿舍的保障，雖然在72年宿舍的事務管理規則裡面已經規定沒有眷屬宿舍，可是在74年有做過解釋，就是原來的眷屬是有一個保障的。我們在民主議政園區裡面還有36戶的眷屬宿舍，經過時間的遞移，現存有24戶；24戶其外的部分，全部有72戶，我們現在也在做一些活化的計畫，因為它是公用財產，不能夠委託經營，所以我們跟國產署有一個共識，可以用促參法的方式對這個宿舍做活化的利用。"],["林委員思銘：當然，要活化利用我們都很贊同，我是說現在是不是有這種無償提供給家屬繼續使用、收不回來的情形？"],["邱主任俊龍：行政院在這個部分有一個解釋函，對現存24戶有一個保障。"],["林委員思銘：所以對他們有一個保障？"],["邱主任俊龍：對，是。"],["林委員思銘：OK。為了提升資產的管理效能，你剛剛有提到未來會活化，所以相關宿舍管理的辦法是不是可以明確規範相關的條件及租金的標準？你們未來會不會訂定？"],["邱主任俊龍：再補充報告，除了這些眷屬宿舍以外，我們的職務宿舍是有收管理費的，每平方公尺收取12.38元的費用，所以這個是有一個……"],["林委員思銘：有一個管理辦法？"],["邱主任俊龍：對，國有財產的規定裡面是有一個管理費的辦法。"],["林委員思銘：好，以上，謝謝。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157766","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157766","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836032cc03150893660ab1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a3206844353fb8ddf334f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"10:44:49 - 10:53:30","影片長度":"00:08:41","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:44:49+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:53:30+08:00","duration":521,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.03409375,"end":8.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.447218750000001,"end":10.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.074718750000002,"end":22.559093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.559093750000002,"end":23.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.14971875,"end":32.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.66284375,"end":56.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.055968750000005,"end":63.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.805968750000005,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.59721875000001,"end":89.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.65596875,"end":77.68971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.48096875,"end":102.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.91784375,"end":106.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.36471875000001,"end":111.62534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.62534375000001,"end":157.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.64221875000001,"end":111.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.86284375,"end":177.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.54346875000002,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.05159375000002,"end":192.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.35409375,"end":255.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.69534375,"end":204.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.27346875,"end":260.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.48409375,"end":259.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.56846875,"end":259.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.90596875,"end":260.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.59346875,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.75909375000003,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.11346875000004,"end":282.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.15971875,"end":283.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.96846875,"end":303.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.30409375,"end":307.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.08846875,"end":336.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.61159375,"end":356.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.66721875,"end":377.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.09846875000005,"end":385.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.05096875000004,"end":387.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.21096875,"end":402.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.71534375000005,"end":477.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.74534375,"end":481.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.39034375000006,"end":486.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.85346875000005,"end":489.25409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.67596875000004,"end":490.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.60409375,"end":491.12721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.12721875000005,"end":504.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.59909375,"end":497.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.80971875000006,"end":498.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.60596875000005,"end":509.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.09909375,"end":513.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.1997187500001,"end":519.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.7178437499999,"end":520.03409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.808,"end":31.495,"text":"謝謝趙偉有請院長好院長請院長好是上次有問到有關於參觀博物館的人次喔不知道院長還記不記得當時院長有說參觀人次是沒辦法讓人家滿意喔覺得可以再加強一下具體怎麼做院長有想出解決辦法了嗎"},{"start":33.72,"end":58.091,"text":"因故宮其實同仁都很努力我們辦的好的展覽然後辦了一些教育活動可是人潮沒有回流真的是很我們自己也覺得很不滿意但明年的話我們100plus的話我們會有一些重要的文物到南苑的話基本上來講是不管是北苑南苑的話我期待它的參觀人數都會增加所以院長您覺得您的具體作為就是將"},{"start":58.951,"end":61.133,"text":"主管預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算"},{"start":79.729,"end":88.994,"text":"之前馬英九總統執政、蔡英文總統執政我們這些過往的旅客當中是不是入客是屬於大宗的?"},{"start":90.906,"end":111.546,"text":"路客在整個階段性的時候基本上來講把那個故宮博物院衝到高點可是當初沒有開放路客的時候觀眾其實也不少了但是你不能否認路客是佔極大多數那個時候是把故宮的參觀人數拉高到現在一直都沒有辦法突破的一個"},{"start":111.966,"end":133.123,"text":"就如同你所說的文化應該要有交流的一個橋樑但我們看到現在兩岸政策的一個僵局影響故宮參訪的人數似乎讓文化也受到了政治的一個限制這是非常可惜的這幾天我們看到陸生團參觀故宮陸生團都很興奮看到翠玉白菜肉行石清明上河圖本尊我想請問"},{"start":134.244,"end":157.447,"text":"故宮作為兩岸文化最高殿堂如果我們可以用文化取代口水用文化改變緊張關係以故宮作為一個平台推動兩岸文化的一個軟性互動讓文化外交超越政治的緊張院長你覺得這個有沒有辦法讓故宮成為兩岸文化交流的春暖花開的一個契機關鍵的一個鑰匙請回答"},{"start":159.348,"end":185.545,"text":"顧宮當然在整個兩岸文化交流的話會有一個一定性的作用跟影響可是如果要故宮變成是一個指標或是影響的關鍵的話基本上來講的話這個可能還要大家還要有有一點點共識當然不敢奢求一定當指標但是我希望能夠開啟這樣的契機未來透過這樣子的一個軟性互動文化交流"},{"start":185.965,"end":199.484,"text":"尤其是故宮這部分我們有這樣子的一個重要文物來做一個推廣我想這是本席希望看到我們的最重要的目的都跟你一樣只是希望參觀故宮的人數能夠提升"},{"start":200.635,"end":228.462,"text":"這就是我們最重要的一個今天來到的一個目標那我另外要跟你討論省基部去年的報告故宮在數位轉型的時候未依照數位安全規範將所謂的系統變更管理的一個作業環境措施等問題加上去年曾經故宮文物高階圖檔外洩並被放到淘寶賤賣的一個事情這無疑就是對整個故宮資訊安全的一個疑慮我想我們當然全力的來衝"},{"start":229.742,"end":253.817,"text":"所謂的入課、入生來參觀故宮但是對於我們自己的資訊安全的保障我們是認為刻不容緩而且是寸土不讓在審計部也有這樣子的一個報告我想問現在審計部的一個報告故宮今年五月回應提出五項的資安改善現在目前有符合哪一些是ISMS的規範改進內容有嗎?"},{"start":257.25,"end":258.371,"text":"您們最近是不是有委外辦理?"},{"start":281.766,"end":303.729,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":304.383,"end":329.059,"text":"我認為不應該再有這樣子的一個事件發生跟委員報告的確就是在兩年前的話就是有所謂的同人作業的貪圖便利把圖檔放在開放空間中但這個事情的話跟所謂的淘寶的賤賣圖檔沒有關係因為我們去清查所有淘寶的圖檔裡面基本上來講都是以故宮open data的居多"},{"start":329.719,"end":354.699,"text":"但是open data本來就可以自由取用,可是他們把它打包上去賣,所以這樣的作為不符合法。我想我們都非常的重視,不管是剛剛有委員提到所謂的文物的保存,到現在數位資訊安全,我想我要再一次的最後下通牒,如果故宮讓我們這麼不擔心,讓我們這麼擔心,我們不排除還要到故宮做考察,深入的了解,我想不要走到這一步啊。院長,這很難堪啊。"},{"start":356.895,"end":377.218,"text":"那我想故宮國寶的一個出遊到台中後續我也想跟你再追蹤上次我有跟你詢問喔在11月24本席有問到故宮國寶的一個出遊去本席有建議故宮館長移屍到台中當時院長有承諾我會再研議喔研議的情形我現在還沒有收到任何的答案院長"},{"start":378.737,"end":402.372,"text":"這個部分的話當然就是我會再找那個國內館的館長去討論1624到現在你還沒找他我有跟他溝通啊那那個那個比如說像那個高雄美術館啦他們也都來了都希望說跟故宮再加強合作甚至連台北美術館館長都來跟我們洽談我是很認真的在邀請喔我是希望院長能夠達到這次我們的一個需求我再提一個數據喔"},{"start":407.515,"end":430.86,"text":"這是一百一十二年預算中心評估報告故宮國寶出遊我們看到一百零七年國立台灣美術館一百零七年台中花博以及一百零八年的故宮南院相關的參觀人次都在這上面我想歷年的數據再加上國立故宮博物院博物院在這一百一十二年度的部會管制計畫平和結果裡面有提到"},{"start":432.06,"end":438.742,"text":" 112年故宮國寶由彰化2.0故宮文物及相關的新媒體藝術展總參觀的是43,389人次以及故宮出遊我們相關的國寶出遊在台南美術館的一個展覽合作"},{"start":447.265,"end":470.64,"text":"都有129,424人次就參觀人次來做我們來看這樣子的數據分析我們台中市居冠當然展期的期限長短也都有影響那如果就期限去和國立美術館相比也是遠超出許多所以院長台中市南北交通重要的一個樞紐擁有絕佳的地理位置"},{"start":471.44,"end":486.718,"text":"無論是高鐵台鐵還是開車民眾都非常方便喔再一次的麻煩院長慎重的幫我們協助我想這個工作我一定會努力來完成這是我第二次拜託第二次爭取喔也歡迎台中來策展大概可以多久給我答案"},{"start":488.939,"end":503.15,"text":"兩個禮拜兩個禮拜你的兩個禮拜我感受到裡面充滿著誠意跟態度不要緊張我沒有要罵你但是這兩個禮拜裡面我希望能夠得到很明確我們非常引頸期盼的答案"},{"start":505.669,"end":508.33,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":898,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（10時44分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：院長請。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長好。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：上次問到有關於參觀博物館的人次，不知道院長還記不記得？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當時院長說參觀人次是沒辦法讓人家滿意，覺得可以再加強一下。具體怎麼做，院長想出解決辦法了嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為故宮其實同仁都很努力，我們辦得好的展覽，然後辦了一些教育活動，可是人潮沒有回流，真的是很……我們自己也覺得很不滿意，但明年我們「100+」，會有一些重要文物到南院的話，基本上不管是北院、南院，我期待它的參觀人數都會增加。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以院長覺得，您的具體作為就是將重要的一些文物移到南院，就可以提升參觀的人次，是這樣嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是，我們會跟觀光旅遊，然後跟外交部觀光組駐外的館處合作，當然我們也會參加國際旅展，類似這樣的活動，整體來講……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想先請你回答我一個數據，之前馬英九總統執政、蔡英文總統執政，過往的這些旅客當中，是不是陸客是屬於大宗？"],["蕭院長宗煌：陸客，在整個階段性的時候，基本上來講，把故宮博物院的部分衝到高點，可是當初沒有開放陸客的時候，觀眾其實也不少。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是你不能否認陸客是占極大多數，對吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，那時候是把故宮的參觀人數拉高到現在一直都沒有辦法突破的一個……"],["羅委員廷瑋：就如同你所說的，文化應該要有交流的橋梁，但我們看到現在兩岸政策的僵局影響故宮參訪人數，似乎讓文化也受到了政治的限制，這是非常可惜的。這幾天我們看到陸生團參觀故宮，陸生團都很興奮看到翠玉白菜、肉形石、清明上河圖的本尊。我想請問，故宮作為兩岸文化最高殿堂，如果我們可以用文化取代口水、用文化改變緊張關係，以故宮作為一個平臺推動兩岸文化的軟性互動，讓文化外交超越政治的緊張，院長覺得這個有沒有辦法讓故宮成為兩岸文化交流春暖花開的一個契機、關鍵的鑰匙？請回答。"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮當然在整個的兩岸文化交流上會有一定的作用和影響，可是如果要故宮變成是一個指標或影響的關鍵的話，基本上來講，這個可能大家還要有一點點共識，因為一個博物館……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然不敢奢求一定當指標……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是我希望能夠開啟這樣的契機，未來透過這樣的軟性互動、文化交流，尤其是故宮這部分，我們有這樣子一個重要文物來做推廣，這是本席希望看到的。我們的最重要的目的都跟你一樣，只是希望參觀故宮的人數能夠提升，這就是我們今天最重要的一個目標。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我另外要跟你討論，審計部去年的報告，故宮在數位轉型的時候，未依照數位安全規範落實所謂系統變更管理作業環境措施，加上去年曾經發生故宮文物高階圖檔外洩，並被放到淘寶賤賣的事情，這無疑就是對整個故宮資訊安全的疑慮，我想我們當然全力來衝所謂的陸客、陸生參觀故宮，但是對於自己資訊安全的保障，我們認為刻不容緩，而且寸土不讓，審計部也有這樣一個報告。請問，針對現在審計部的報告，故宮今年5月回應並提出5項的資安改善，目前哪一些有符合ISMS規範改進內容，有嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個比較專業，我請我們資訊室幫忙回答。"],["羅委員廷瑋：請說。"],["謝主任俊科：委員好。數資室主任謝俊科第一次報告。ISMS的制度，我們已經實施多年，在這個月要重新取得ISO27002的認證延續，所以我們大致上是有經過ISMS這樣一個標準作業。"],["羅委員廷瑋：你們最近是不是有委外辦理ISMS的輔導驗證服務？"],["謝主任俊科：是有輔導，但是我們自己也要辦理。"],["羅委員廷瑋：目前是否都已經完成了？"],["謝主任俊科：完成，是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：全面的盤點都做過了，OK嗎？"],["謝主任俊科：OK！"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我想圖檔外洩只是其中的事情，你們對待資訊安全的整體態度，我們感覺到螺絲鬆了，院長，我認為不應該再有這樣的事件發生。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，的確在兩年前就是有同仁貪圖作業便利，把圖檔放在開放空間，這個事情跟淘寶賤賣圖檔沒有關係，因為我們去清查所有淘寶的圖檔裡面，基本上來講都是以Google Open Data居多，但是Open Data本來就可以自由取用，可是他們把它打包上去賣，這樣的作為是不合法的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想我們都非常重視，不管是剛剛有委員提到所謂的文物保存到現在的數位資訊安全，我要再一次下最後通牒，如果故宮讓我們這麼擔心，我們不排除還要到故宮做考察，深入的了解，我想不要走到這一步，院長，這很難堪。","再來，有關故宮國寶出遊到臺中，後續我也想跟你追蹤，上次在10月24日本席有詢問到「故宮國寶出遊去」，本席有建議將故宮館藏移師到臺中，當時院長有承諾會再研議，有關研議的情形，我現在還沒有收到任何答案，院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分的話，當然我會再找國美館館長討論。"],["羅委員廷瑋：10月24日到現在你還沒找他？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我有跟他溝通，譬如說像高雄美術館，他們也都來了，都希望跟故宮再加強合作，甚至連臺北美術館館長都來跟我們……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我是很認真的在邀請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：臺中的部分……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我是希望院長能夠達到這次我們的需求。我再提一個數據，這是112年預算中心評估報告，有關故宮國寶出遊，我們看到107年國立臺灣美術館、107年臺中花博，以及108年的故宮南院相關的參觀人次都在這上面，歷年數據再加上國立故宮博物院在112年度部會管制計畫評核結果裡面有提到，112年「故宮國寶遊彰化2.0故宮文物x新媒體藝術展」的總參觀人次是4萬3,389人次，以及相關的故宮國寶出遊在臺南美術館的一個展覽合作，都有12萬9,424人次，我們就參觀人次來看這樣的數據分析，我們臺中市居冠，當然展期的期限長短也都有影響，如果就期限去和國立美術館相比也是遠超出許多。所以院長，臺中市是南北交通重要的一個樞紐，擁有絕佳的地理位置，無論是高鐵、臺鐵還是開車，民眾都非常方便，再一次的麻煩院長慎重的幫我們協助。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想這個工作我一定會努力來完成。"],["羅委員廷瑋：這是我第二次拜託、第二次爭取，也歡迎到臺中來策展，大概多久可以給我答案？"],["蕭院長宗煌：兩個禮拜。"],["羅委員廷瑋：兩個禮拜？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我就再跟他……"],["羅委員廷瑋：你的兩個禮拜，我感受到裡面充滿著誠意跟態度，不要緊張，我沒有要罵你，但是這兩個禮拜裡面，我希望能夠得到很明確、讓我們非常引頸期盼的答案，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，我下去就跟國美館那邊聯絡。"],["羅委員廷瑋：兩個禮拜，我沒再縮減你的時間，但是我感受到你的態度跟你的誠懇。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我會跟他談，但是具體的展覽內容、策劃的方向，那個要再細談。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝你。"],["主席：謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","接下來我們有請林宜瑾委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157765","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157765","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360aa75bd7854fed84e4a6acd55cc740f50f169037e582a32069ece5cc56f5d9c585ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:33:28 - 10:47:21","影片長度":"00:13:53","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:33:28+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:47:21+08:00","duration":833,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.06471875,"end":2.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2.61284375,"end":3.7772187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.16534375,"end":5.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.662218750000001,"end":39.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.85596875,"end":54.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.908468750000004,"end":63.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.48096875,"end":93.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.56034375,"end":97.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.17596875000001,"end":110.00534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.02221875000001,"end":111.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.64221875000001,"end":116.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.45159375,"end":117.75096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.42596875000001,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.38346875,"end":125.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.38346875,"end":153.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.84159375000002,"end":131.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.23909375000002,"end":153.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.76221875000002,"end":153.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.91409375,"end":154.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.09971875000002,"end":154.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.31909375,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.42034375,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.02721875,"end":159.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.09471875,"end":159.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.56721875000002,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.73596875,"end":159.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.85409375,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.02284375000002,"end":179.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.39159375,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.55971875,"end":180.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.69471875000002,"end":180.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.71159375000002,"end":180.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.96471875,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.03221875,"end":181.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.18409375000002,"end":181.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.25159375,"end":181.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.60596875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.02784375000002,"end":187.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.04471875000002,"end":182.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.22534375,"end":190.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.85346875000002,"end":196.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.18596875,"end":196.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.75971875000002,"end":197.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":197.43471875,"end":212.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.17221875,"end":203.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.41971875000002,"end":224.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":223.59096875,"end":232.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.45034375,"end":232.48409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.48409375000003,"end":232.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.68659375000001,"end":232.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.72034375,"end":232.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.09159375000002,"end":237.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.74909375000001,"end":240.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.39034375000003,"end":238.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.53346875000003,"end":243.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.52034375000002,"end":250.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.87784375,"end":261.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.85159375,"end":257.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.53034375000004,"end":270.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.80721875,"end":270.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.94221875,"end":272.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.25846875,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.27534375,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.47784375000003,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.61284375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.81534375,"end":272.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.88284375,"end":272.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.96721875000003,"end":273.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.04721875,"end":289.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.42971875,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.31909375000004,"end":291.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.55909375000005,"end":317.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.44721875000005,"end":306.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.65221875000003,"end":322.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.54596875000004,"end":348.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.02721875000003,"end":359.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":359.87346875000003,"end":359.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.90721875,"end":365.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.98221875,"end":399.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.89909375,"end":386.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.22346875000005,"end":388.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.43284375,"end":413.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.04409375,"end":402.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":413.77221875000004,"end":433.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.75221875000005,"end":446.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.15534375000004,"end":448.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.87221875,"end":448.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.88909375000003,"end":468.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.16471875,"end":481.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.33534375000005,"end":490.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.37221875000006,"end":489.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.50284375,"end":511.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.50596875,"end":498.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.24221875,"end":528.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":528.7922187500001,"end":529.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":529.2140937500001,"end":532.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":532.94346875,"end":542.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.1697187500001,"end":551.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.7084687500001,"end":551.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.8772187500001,"end":551.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.8940937500001,"end":551.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.9953437500001,"end":566.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.6553437499999,"end":567.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.3134687500001,"end":584.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.50721875,"end":571.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.4797187500001,"end":590.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":589.93034375,"end":590.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.9428437500001,"end":601.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.19596875,"end":592.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.59534375,"end":600.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.62909375,"end":602.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.02971875,"end":602.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.16471875,"end":602.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.3672187500001,"end":603.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.97471875,"end":603.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.5147187499999,"end":603.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.56534375,"end":603.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.58221875,"end":603.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.6497187500001,"end":603.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.68346875,"end":603.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.96596875,"end":605.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.69159375,"end":609.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.6953437500001,"end":608.7122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.7122187500001,"end":610.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.0959687500001,"end":610.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.5009687500001,"end":616.5928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.1584687500001,"end":620.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.60096875,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":620.9128437500001,"end":628.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.30846875,"end":627.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.43471875,"end":631.0209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.6240937499999,"end":633.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.1259687500001,"end":634.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.1597187500001,"end":649.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":635.17221875,"end":635.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.1340937500001,"end":636.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.0222187500001,"end":650.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":650.0390937500001,"end":655.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.77721875,"end":651.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.48596875,"end":652.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.03409375,"end":667.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.13096875,"end":657.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":657.39659375,"end":658.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.0615937500002,"end":678.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":674.82846875,"end":684.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.7009687500001,"end":681.0047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.0847187500001,"end":685.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.8647187500001,"end":699.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":696.96846875,"end":698.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.9722187500001,"end":709.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":706.94159375,"end":715.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.8684687500001,"end":730.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":730.7690937500001,"end":733.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.19909375,"end":735.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.6922187499999,"end":749.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":750.10784375,"end":752.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":752.8078437500001,"end":753.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.30971875,"end":758.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.2078437499999,"end":763.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":764.6709687500002,"end":769.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.9409687500001,"end":764.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.99159375,"end":766.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":766.6284687500001,"end":768.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.48034375,"end":776.9053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.8347187500001,"end":769.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.05721875,"end":779.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":779.03159375,"end":792.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.3259687500001,"end":787.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.54846875,"end":801.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":801.6440937500001,"end":801.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.69471875,"end":806.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.79534375,"end":805.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.8459687500001,"end":807.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.9722187500001,"end":817.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":808.29284375,"end":809.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.6047187500001,"end":811.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.1315937500001,"end":814.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.75971875,"end":819.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":818.46846875,"end":818.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":819.1772187500001,"end":819.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.3290937500001,"end":823.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.5734687500001,"end":822.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.04096875,"end":828.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":828.96471875,"end":831.05721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.27,"end":5.064,"text":"謝謝主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請邱主委好請邱主委"},{"start":10.817,"end":38.48,"text":"張委員你好好 謝謝邱主委今天是這個陸委會的有關於114年度預算的這個質詢跟今天可能質詢的問題那本席想要先請教我們邱主委於今年陸委會於今年的6月1號發布了這個我們臺灣的旅客到大陸的進團令以及6月27號發布大陸的這個大陸的民眾到"},{"start":39.941,"end":53.636,"text":"大陸旅遊的這個陳設警戒那現在我覺得人民現在我要幫所有的這個全台觀光業、旅遊業來請命了這個禁團令到底什麼時候會取消它的要件為何"},{"start":54.98,"end":61.325,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":79.337,"end":92.464,"text":"還沒有真正的對台灣開放團客那他其中一個藉口說我們團客去中國大陸還有限制就是你所謂的禁團令但是我要跟委員報告我們在"},{"start":95.595,"end":97.056,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":118.476,"end":121.578,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":145.211,"end":159.103,"text":"到大陸的一些到大陸的一些限制。審讀22條。審讀22條。這樣的兩個東西都開放以後才會來正式解除禁團令嗎?喔!不是這個。喔!不是這個。對!所以本席要問你的意見是什麼時候才能解除禁團令的要件為何?我們"},{"start":160.724,"end":179.371,"text":"剛剛除了我們追求健康有序的兩岸交流兩岸觀光旅遊交流之後我們還有一個我們對於國人賦入的安全我們最關心的是國人的安全所以安全就是因為懲毒22條所以大陸要放棄懲毒22條才會開放禁團令嗎?台灣的禁團令嗎?我們在確定它對國人賦入安全有沒有影響特別是懲毒22條我跟委員報告"},{"start":190.075,"end":192.137,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":218.877,"end":221.038,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":238.27,"end":239.511,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":256.656,"end":273.385,"text":"如果加上11月份的話我相信已經20萬團客到大陸去了所以主委的意思是說現在還有在這個當時6月1號進團令之後的旅遊團因為還沒有出團的目前還有在出團的情況對現在還在繼續出團那大概他們會出團到什麼時候"},{"start":274.125,"end":278.188,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":292.571,"end":297.932,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":322.617,"end":348.298,"text":"跟委員報告我們一直呼籲中國大陸2020年4月份他們就不讓學位生來那現在來台灣的這個入生的結構學位生現有學位生越來越少剩下1000多人那麼如果說現在比較多的是研修生大概今年1到10月還有2108位那這個當然入生的這個在校園是越來越少"},{"start":348.899,"end":351.522,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":366.056,"end":392.745,"text":"中國大陸學生來臺灣留學而且我們也接到許多中國大陸的家長他們希望到臺灣留學但是中國大陸他對於他的國人境外就是嚴格管控所以他們還不能來我們也呼籲他應該讓兩岸的年輕人像我們剛剛今天早上討論到兩岸青年交流很重要最主要是學生交流學生交流應該讓他自由自在自主自然的交流其實入生來臺"},{"start":395.666,"end":396.908,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":413.889,"end":416.35,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":436.054,"end":454.587,"text":"想要請這個主委來解釋是他的這個登錄的重點是有利於這個國人在遇到緊急事情的時候政府能夠及時聯絡這個緊急聯絡人而提供必要協助是嗎?是,跟委員報告我們這個對國人賦入感目前還有風險的情況下那國人透過這個登錄系統"},{"start":455.868,"end":457.249,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":482.378,"end":484.799,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":511.368,"end":533.227,"text":"好那接下來我要請教主委的齁剛剛有提到齁台灣呃台灣國人齁現在去大陸旅遊大概到目前今年為止大概230多萬人有去大陸嘛一到十月一到十月嘛那我想要請教現在登錄系統齁我們可以看到登錄系統這樣的資料齁我們登錄的資料113年目前登錄的資料只有幾萬人欸"},{"start":534.668,"end":557.38,"text":"那是不是這個登錄系統完全沒有發揮它的作用只有幾萬人登錄兩百多萬人去大陸旅遊可是只有不到兩萬人登錄這樣的系統然後要花人民納稅錢這個六七百萬來建設這樣的系統會不會認為有浪費國家預算的問題那我再請教另外一個問題第一個登錄人數比較少那我想要請教就是說"},{"start":558.18,"end":583.385,"text":"因為花了人民納稅錢大概六、七百萬,因為登錄這個系統而實際緊急處理的人數為何?大概多少人?這個我先跟委員回答,就是說我們以今年跟去年的話,我們今年登錄的人數已經是去年的14倍,我們港澳的部分有6倍,是增加很多,但是我們國人在評估它的風險,"},{"start":584.685,"end":586.827,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":605.794,"end":628.04,"text":"跟委員報告事實上陸委會提供這樣的緊急服務我請問請問人數你清楚人數嗎?我們的人數基本上是包含海基會的緊急服務專線我請教的不是海基會的緊急服務我請教的是陸委會建設這樣的系統這個港澳台富登陸系統以後服務了多少人我直接跟主委報告服務是0人吶"},{"start":629.54,"end":631.661,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":650.912,"end":665.89,"text":"請教你現在花人民納稅前700萬進入的這個登錄系統有沒有服務到任何我們的國人?我們到港澳的時候會收到了簡訊,大陸也一樣,貴友基安就只有簡訊,簡訊以外上面是我們駐館的電話"},{"start":668.152,"end":668.593,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":685.951,"end":688.833,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":711.929,"end":714.591,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":737.055,"end":763.215,"text":"那請你提供你的電子郵件信箱,只是我沒有填寫啦我沒有填寫我的電子郵件信箱啦所以他這樣的系統也是可以過關的所以我要請教的就是我們立委會這樣子沒有房貸的一個系統要花人民納稅前七、八百萬是合理的嗎?你們有沒有在做這樣的資料的檢核?這個系統已經推了兩年了欸報告委員針對這部分我們事實上有發現我們已經請廠商進行後續的修正"},{"start":764.904,"end":792.177,"text":"針對負照號碼我全部都填了而且這個系統連提供到我們國人要到哪裡附入哪裡的地址也不是必要填寫資訊那這個資訊你要如何去救助需要救助的國人?因為國人不見得希望提供這麼詳細資料但他只要提現在是線上系統他告訴我們是要緊急聯絡人而不是說一定要到大陸的哪一個城市住在哪一個地方"},{"start":792.597,"end":817.422,"text":"好所以本席是拜託這個主委主委非常辛苦在你們在做事情的時候要讓用人民大稅錢的時候已經兩年的系統了是結果救助的人是零而且沒有這個資訊沒有房貸的謝謝委員執政我們會不斷的把它優化那到底裡面有多少的錯誤的資訊所以我跟你講這個答案是零也不意外因為根本就沒有這個系統的功能基本上就是零"},{"start":817.922,"end":818.462,"text":"張志倫委員休息5分鐘"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2286,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（10時33分）謝謝主席，各位委員、各位官員，大家早，有請邱主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：張委員，你好。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝邱主委。今天是陸委會關於114年度預算的質詢，關於今天質詢的問題，本席想要先請教邱主委，陸委會於今年6月1號發布了臺灣旅客到大陸的禁團令，以及6月27號發布民眾到大陸旅遊的橙色警戒。我要幫全臺所有的觀光業、旅遊業來請命，這個禁團令到底什麼時候會取消？它的要件為何？讓雙方可以開放兩岸觀光的禁團令的取消要件為何？請主委解釋一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝張委員的指教，我們也了解觀光業者過去在疫情期間已經非常辛苦了，他也希望有更多的客源，但是中國大陸截至目前為止還沒有真正的對臺灣開放團客，他其中一個藉口說，我們團客去中國大陸還有限制，就是你所謂的禁團令。但是我要跟委員報告，如果中共在520之後沒有對臺軍演、也沒有懲獨22條的話，我們早就沒有所謂的禁團令、觀光客早就過去了；特別是我們現在的政策，我們是願意跟中國大陸進行安全、健康有序、雙向對等、互惠的健康旅遊……"],["張委員智倫：主委，先跟你說明一下，現在大陸的旅客是從福建開放到馬祖跟金門來做旅遊，所以臺灣這邊的條件是說，第一個，未來大陸不能對臺軍演；第二個的條件，他要放棄之前提出有關臺獨分子到大陸的一些限制……"],["邱主任委員垂正：懲獨22條。"],["張委員智倫：懲獨22條，這兩個東西都開放以後才會正式解除禁團令嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是這個……"],["張委員智倫：本席要問你的問題是，什麼時候才能解除禁團令、要件為何？"],["邱主任委員垂正：剛剛除了我們追求健康有序的兩岸觀光旅遊、交流之外，我們還有一個，我們對於國人赴陸的安全，我們最關心的是國人赴陸的安全！"],["張委員智倫：何謂安全？"],["邱主任委員垂正：所謂安全就是因為懲獨22條，這個帶給國人……"],["張委員智倫：所以大陸要放棄懲獨22條才會開放臺灣的禁團令嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們在確定他對國人赴陸安全有沒有影響，特別是懲獨22條，我跟委員報告，懲獨22條……"],["張委員智倫：時間的關係，我了解，主委，就是要放棄懲獨22條才有可能……"],["邱主任委員垂正：至少對國人赴陸沒有安全危害，這是前提！"],["張委員智倫：我了解，可以，我們都接受，因為保障臺灣人的安全！可是對於我們全臺的觀光業到底如何開放？因為我本來認為只要雙方都開放觀光旅遊就可以解除禁團令……"],["邱主任委員垂正：不過委員，我要跟你報告，雖然我們沒有辦法常態化出團，但是現在觀光旅遊團仍然持續在出團，所以以數字而言，從3月到10月……"],["張委員智倫：主委，等一下，我要暫停一下，你說現在有禁團令可是臺灣還是繼續在出團？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，持續出團。"],["張委員智倫：那不是違反禁團令嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：他不是……那個禁團令是外面講的，我們講的是……"],["張委員智倫：主委，我了解你的意思……"],["邱主任委員垂正：對於安全問題還在……還沒有完全出團，但是如果業者在6月1號已經規劃的團仍然在出團，所以我們一直到現在還在出團，從3月到10月底有16.9萬團客出團，如果加上11月份的話，我相信已經20萬團客到大陸去了。"],["張委員智倫：所以主委的意思是說，現在還有當時6月1號禁團令之後的旅遊團，因為還沒有出團，目前還有在出團的情況？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，現在還在繼續出團。"],["張委員智倫：他們大概會出團到什麼時候？他如果跟觀光署申請是在6月以前就規劃的旅行團，那觀光署審認的話，所以3月到11月已經有16.9萬人持續以團客的名義出團。"],["張委員智倫：大概還有百分之多少的團還沒有出去？有掌握嗎？沒有掌握的話，會後再來討論。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["張委員智倫：第二個，在賴清德的就職演說，剛剛有提到第一個，重啟雙方對等的觀光旅遊；第二個，陸生來臺就學的部分。我知道大陸本身沒有開放到臺灣來就學，請問陸委會有沒有要去討論未來要如何讓大陸這邊可以開放陸生來臺？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們一直呼籲中國大陸，2020年4月份他們就不讓學位生來，關於現在來臺灣的陸生的結構，現有學位生越來越少，剩下一千多人；現在比較多的是研修生，大概今年1到10月還有2,108位，當然陸生在校園是越來越少。"],["張委員智倫：所以關於變少的部分，陸委會這邊有沒有任何的方式可以跟大陸來做溝通？就是政治放一邊，學生的交流是可以繼續進行的，有沒有什麼樣的前提？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們就是呼籲中國大陸讓中國大陸學生來臺灣留學，而且我們也接到許多中國大陸的家長希望到臺灣留學，但是中國大陸對於他的國人到境外就是嚴格管控，所以他們還不能來。我們也呼籲，他應該讓兩岸的年輕人，像我們今天早上討論到兩岸青年交流很重要，最主要是學生交流，學生交流應該讓他自由、自在、自主、自然的交流，其實陸生來臺念學位生最能達到充分交流。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委，這部分拜託陸委會再努力加強讓學生的交流可以繼續暢通。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會跟主管機關一起努力。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。我要再請教主委，我對接下來這個事情比較在意，就是陸委會最近有一個登錄的系統是國人赴陸港澳動態登錄系統，我不知道它的建置成本大概多少錢，在113年的時候我們政府編列了667萬的預算，在114年花了人民776萬的納稅錢去做，我主要是想要請主委來解釋，這個登錄的重點是有利於國人在遇到緊急事情的時候，政府能夠即時聯絡緊急聯絡人而提供必要的協助嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，在我們國人赴陸港澳目前還有風險的情況下，國人透過這個登錄系統會留下我們可以跟他聯繫的方式，還有我們也可以跟他的家人聯繫，如果有需要的話，我們就可以提供即時的援助，多一層保障，當然我們知道國人會擔心他的個資……"],["張委員智倫：跟主委報告兩件事，第一個，當時在這個系統實施當中，我還記得那時候的新聞有報導陸委會有委外單位的人好像穿著背心在機場到處要求民眾來登錄，當時也被人家說這有個資竊取的問題，那我想要請問主委，現在還有這樣的狀況嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們對外的宣導是儘量不要去打擾民眾，而且要用說理的，不要干擾人家。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：至於個資的部分，我們跟所有的國人保證，這沒有個資的問題，而且我們最近也成立了一個風險的諮詢專線，如果有個資問題，可以跟我們講，如果登錄不順，也可以跟我們講。"],["張委員智倫：好，接下來我要請教主委，剛剛有提到今年去大陸旅遊的國人到目前為止大概有兩百三十幾萬人……"],["邱主任委員垂正：1到10月。"],["張委員智倫：從1到10月，我想要請教主委，我們可以看到登錄系統裡面有這樣的資料，目前只有幾萬人登錄資料，那是不是這個登錄系統完全沒有發揮它的作用？只有幾萬人登錄，兩百多萬人去大陸旅遊，可是只有不到2萬人登錄，然後要花人民六、七百萬的納稅錢來建置這樣的系統，你認為會不會有浪費國家預算的問題？"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指正。"],["張委員智倫：我再請教另外一個問題，除了登錄人數比較少，我想要請教，花了人民大概六、七百萬的納稅錢，有登錄這個系統而實際緊急處理的人數大概是多少人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我先跟委員回復，以今年跟去年相比，我們今年登錄的人數已經是去年的14倍，我們港澳的部分有6倍，增加了很多，但是我們國人在評估它的風險還有疑慮，對個資還有疑慮，對怎麼樣登錄還有疑慮，所以我們最近也……"],["張委員智倫：主委，除了登錄的人次過少以外……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會努力。"],["張委員智倫：有沒有人可以回答有多少人是因為登錄這個系統而做緊急處理？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個比較細部，我請我們周處長來跟委員回復。"],["張委員智倫：請說。"],["周處長鳴瑞：跟委員報告，事實上，陸委會提供這樣的緊急服務……"],["張委員智倫：我只請問人數，你清楚人數嗎？"],["周處長鳴瑞：我們的人數基本上是包含海基會的緊急服務專線……"],["張委員智倫：沒有，我請教的不是海基會的緊急服務專線，我請教的是陸委會建置這樣的國人赴陸港澳動態登錄系統以後，總共服務了多少人？我直接跟主委報告，答案是0人，一個人都沒有服務到啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我請我們港澳處處長說明。"],["盧處長長水：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：花了人民納稅錢六、七百萬建置了一個系統，可是連一個人都沒有服務到，是怎麼回事？"],["盧處長長水：跟委員報告，我們駐館有兩樣，有一個是主動性，還有一個是被動性，我們的急難救助件數在去年就有4,834件……"],["張委員智倫：沒有，我只是請教你，你們現在花了人民納稅錢六、七百萬建置這個登錄系統，有沒有服務到我們任何的國人？"],["盧處長長水：跟委員報告，我們國人到港澳的時候會收到簡訊，到大陸也一樣，會有急難救助的簡訊，簡訊裡面會有我們駐館的電話，如果國人到那邊有需要急難救助，他可以主動打電話到駐館，可是有一些案件譬如說失聯、失蹤、昏迷、死亡……"],["張委員智倫：那我請教你，大家是不是直接打海基會的緊急專線就好了，不需要登錄這個系統？因為登錄這個系統，從過去到現在救助的人數是0啊！"],["盧處長長水：委員，這有分主動和被動，像在港澳發生的失聯、失蹤、昏迷、死亡，或者有一些緊急的事故，有一些大的車禍，那除非這些人已經昏迷了或死亡，我們會來協助他們。"],["張委員智倫：因為時間的關係，我要跟主委報告，這個系統使用的狀況完全不好，而且協助緊急處理的人數是0，所以希望對這個系統要好好的來做改進。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們經常碰到這種案子，以前我在海基會常常說這個人的身分不明、無法聯繫，如果他有登錄的話，就可以解決，我覺得還是有必要。"],["張委員智倫：好，講到登錄問題，我馬上給主委看什麼叫登錄，我剛剛私下有去登錄一下，我去登錄的時候是把我的名字打成「張小倫」，我的護照號碼全部都打0，然後我的緊急聯絡人是打「張大倫」，結果它就跟我講「恭喜你登錄成功，請你提供你的電子郵件信箱」，可是我沒有填寫我的電子郵件信箱，像我這樣寫在這個系統也是可以過關的。所以我要請教陸委會，像這樣一個沒有防呆的系統，要花人民納稅錢七、八百萬，這是合理的嗎？你們有沒有在做資料的檢核？這個系統已經推2年了！"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，針對這個部分，事實上我們有發現，我們已經請廠商進行後續的修正。"],["張委員智倫：多久會修正完畢？"],["周處長鳴瑞：針對護照號碼的檢核都會……"],["張委員智倫：護照號碼我全部都填0，而且在這個系統連我們國人赴陸時要到哪個地址也不是必要填寫的資訊，那沒有這個資訊，你要如何去救助需要救助的國人？"],["周處長鳴瑞：報告委員，因為國人不見得希望提供這麼詳細的資料，但是他只要提供……"],["張委員智倫：現在是線上系統。"],["周處長鳴瑞：他是要告訴我們緊急聯絡人，而不是一定要說是到大陸的哪一個城市、住在哪一個地方，就是國人希望不要填到那麼詳細。"],["張委員智倫：好，本席要拜託主委，主委非常的辛苦，但是你們在做事情的時候、要用人民納稅錢的時候，像這個已經用了2年的系統，結果救助的人數是0，而且對填寫資訊也沒有防呆的機制。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員的指正，我們會不斷的把它優化。"],["張委員智倫：那到底裡面有多少錯誤的資訊？我跟你講，這個答案是0其實也不意外，因為這個系統的功能基本上就是0。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，應該是有很多，謝謝委員，我們再跟委員私下說明。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝張智倫委員。","我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（10時47分）","繼續開會（10時55分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。接下來請黃捷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157764","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157764","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083608314d583a985e4652ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a32064447f47351fe5e595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"10:31:18 - 10:42:05","影片長度":"00:10:47","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:31:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:42:05+08:00","duration":647,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.5578437500000004,"end":5.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.886593750000001,"end":7.101593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.556593750000001,"end":27.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.824093750000003,"end":39.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.07534375,"end":40.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.80096875,"end":46.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.60596875,"end":46.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.112218750000004,"end":47.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.14596875,"end":47.837843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.837843750000005,"end":47.922218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.922218750000006,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.02346875,"end":50.875343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.596593750000004,"end":55.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.02221875,"end":59.852843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.190343750000004,"end":64.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.83096875000001,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.80346875000001,"end":86.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.61221875000001,"end":90.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.52721875,"end":95.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.31971875,"end":102.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.07909375000001,"end":97.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.76159375,"end":112.46909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.99221875,"end":118.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.80971875,"end":126.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.79596875000001,"end":132.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.29284375,"end":141.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.10159375,"end":143.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.29534375,"end":148.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.91909375,"end":151.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.12096875,"end":155.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.04034375,"end":158.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.58846875,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.76096875000002,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.65096875,"end":164.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.67596875,"end":168.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.61221875,"end":185.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.73596875,"end":187.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.86221875,"end":191.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.42284375,"end":194.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.19034375,"end":197.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.99159375000002,"end":199.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.52284375000002,"end":201.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.31159375000001,"end":203.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.11721875,"end":205.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.31096875,"end":208.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.65659375,"end":210.17534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.96846875,"end":211.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.48721875,"end":216.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.44409375,"end":220.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.97096875000003,"end":224.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.29534375,"end":229.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.76721875,"end":237.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.12034375000002,"end":240.98909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.44471875000002,"end":244.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.74784375000002,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.63346875000002,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.02534375000002,"end":255.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.34534375000004,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.77034375,"end":264.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.94721875,"end":272.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.25409375000004,"end":283.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.24409375,"end":283.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.71659375,"end":283.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.73346875000004,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.03721875,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.35346875,"end":287.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.17159375,"end":293.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.87096875000003,"end":295.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.86659375,"end":298.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.95471875000004,"end":304.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.38846875,"end":307.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.91534375000003,"end":311.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.45471875000004,"end":313.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.95659375,"end":316.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.14596875,"end":320.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.41534375000003,"end":324.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.22909375,"end":331.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.81034375,"end":332.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.39659375,"end":335.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.07971875000004,"end":337.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.54346875000005,"end":339.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.58971875000003,"end":342.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.31471875,"end":344.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.68596875000003,"end":344.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.93909375000004,"end":345.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.05284375,"end":349.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.05659375000005,"end":349.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.10721875,"end":351.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.97596875000005,"end":353.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.88284375,"end":356.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.69659375000003,"end":359.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.31221875,"end":368.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.52596875,"end":388.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.71284375000005,"end":389.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.55659375000005,"end":408.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.09784375000004,"end":409.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.11471875,"end":409.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.68409375000005,"end":412.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.43471875,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.83909375,"end":424.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.43284375,"end":426.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.52534375000005,"end":431.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.07721875000004,"end":435.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.99221875,"end":438.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.35909375000006,"end":440.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.02534375000005,"end":447.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.55596875000003,"end":451.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.58909375,"end":453.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.69409375000004,"end":456.11159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.42784375,"end":462.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.28346875000005,"end":465.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.13534375,"end":470.38784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.94471875000005,"end":473.47596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.52221875000004,"end":476.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.96471875000003,"end":482.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.70659375,"end":484.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.96784375000004,"end":486.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.55409375000005,"end":489.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.34659375,"end":493.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.21096875,"end":497.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.60284375000003,"end":499.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.47596875000005,"end":501.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.97346875000005,"end":504.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.01096875,"end":507.05721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.71534375000005,"end":510.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.83721875000003,"end":511.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.2165937500001,"end":517.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.9584687500001,"end":518.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.57846875,"end":524.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.8390937500001,"end":528.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.46721875,"end":535.4578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.4578437499999,"end":538.9340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.9890937499999,"end":538.1240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.98471875,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.4909687500001,"end":540.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.26284375,"end":542.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.1653437500001,"end":545.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.1609687499999,"end":547.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.6372187500001,"end":562.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.23409375,"end":572.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.7434687500001,"end":574.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.9878437500001,"end":573.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.75971875,"end":575.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.41784375,"end":581.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.6784687500001,"end":587.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.7534687500001,"end":587.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.8503437500001,"end":592.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.2547187499999,"end":598.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.9753437500001,"end":600.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.88221875,"end":603.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.7297187500001,"end":606.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.7209687500001,"end":607.5984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.6953437500001,"end":613.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.4497187500001,"end":619.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.03096875,"end":625.3172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.94159375,"end":631.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.7297187500001,"end":636.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.3828437500001,"end":638.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.2222187500001,"end":640.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.4834687499999,"end":643.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.81221875,"end":645.34784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.806,"end":5.013,"text":"張副秘書長麻煩副秘書長"},{"start":13.045,"end":38.778,"text":"請教副秘書長南韓總統尹錫悅昨天深夜宣布緊急戒嚴令還派出武裝部隊試圖攻入議會大廈要逮捕參加會議的國會議員你身為國會的議員工作人員對於尹錫悅這種宣布戒嚴甚至用軍事力量來攻擊國會的做法你怎麼看"},{"start":40.834,"end":58.856,"text":"基本上是民主憲政國家不應該用這種方式來處理不應該所以你不認同這個做法但是我要告訴大家民進黨立法院黨團可是非常認同他在尹錫悅宣布戒嚴令之後的第一時間"},{"start":60.285,"end":85.964,"text":"他就發出一個貼文我把第一段唸給副秘書長聽南韓國會被清北韓勢力操控南韓總統尹錫悅為守護自由憲政體制緊急宣布全國戒嚴我聽到民進黨說肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由的憲政體制"},{"start":87.657,"end":111.732,"text":"我說真的我的下巴都被嚇到快掉下來我不知道今天副秘書長你這新聞有看到吧對不對應該很不方便回答就不問你我覺得任何正常的我們台灣的民眾聽到民進黨去肯定戒嚴還說這叫做守護自由憲政體制下巴全部被嚇到掉下來"},{"start":113.015,"end":140.767,"text":"那麼我只能說全歷史人瘋狂但尹錫悅讓民進黨瘋狂啊這尹錫悅這樣的一個戒嚴的動作整個民進黨好像馬上就是原形畢露就立刻把這個羊皮外衣脫掉狼性就展現出來了另外尹錫悅宣布戒嚴想要動用軍隊攻佔國會他的理由是什麼不知道秘書長知道嗎"},{"start":142.13,"end":162.532,"text":"他有兩個理由啦請委員指示一個是在野黨癱瘓政府另外一個是要剷除清北韓勢力我不知道秘書長你聽起來有沒有覺得很熟悉非常有既視感因為這不是在南韓發生而已啊過去這一年"},{"start":163.72,"end":185.367,"text":"在我們立法院當我們在追超時雞蛋當我們在審今天預算民進黨的浪費當我們在揪出今天民進黨把就業安定基金當作自己的小金庫當我們在監督民進黨殘害文官、踐踏文官、霸凌文官種種事情的時候民進黨扣的帽子是什麼就是我們台灣政府啊"},{"start":188.922,"end":216.514,"text":"就是我們變成是誰親共的勢力也難怪今天尹錫悅今天宣布戒嚴民進黨會這麼嗨真的是秒發文欸速度極快欸雖然後來刪文了啦速度非常快就把他心聲說出來了嘛民進黨可能恨自己慢了一步尹錫悅做到了民進黨沒來得及做到他可能恨這件事情啊"},{"start":218.493,"end":247.054,"text":"跟民進黨的論調完全一樣這不是我個人主觀感受啊抱歉啊民進黨的立法院黨團的貼文說第一段大大的肯定尹錫悅戒嚴是為了守護自由憲政體制他第二段第三段講的是什麼講的就是藍白癱瘓政府民進黨在抵抗世界級的暗黑勢力就跟尹錫悅一模一樣啊"},{"start":248.663,"end":264.154,"text":"那我要想請問大家去想一件事情剛剛我們副秘書長已經講到了你也不認同這個做法到底尹錫悅宣布戒嚴您覺得他是守護自由憲政體制還是破壞自由憲政體制您覺得"},{"start":265.95,"end":268.311,"text":"這個你回答保守沒有關係但下一個問題恐怕你的回答就跟立法院直接相關了我就要問你了"},{"start":294.929,"end":319.947,"text":"我們偉大的民進黨立法院黨團他爐裂很負責任的爐裂為什麼他要肯定隱形院戒嚴是所謂的捍衛自由的憲政體制他其中有一個理由我看到我真的是頭都暈了他說因為立法院百般刁難王逸川就職立法院百般刁難王逸川就職"},{"start":321.465,"end":334.854,"text":"民進黨衝關一路為翊川阿原來拼戒嚴肯定戒嚴擁戴飲習樂是為了王翊川阿好問題來了我想請問這問題很嚴肅阿請問副秘書長大院有百班刁難王翊川就職嗎有沒有"},{"start":344.329,"end":368.511,"text":"沒有沒有啊那為什麼他要說你百般刁難王逸川就職啊為什麼這個部分我們並不是很清楚啦那民進黨說真的他腦袋到底塞棉花還是塞木屑啊你今天隨便掰理由你也掰出個有本據的理由什麼叫做百般刁難王逸川就職我這樣講啦就往例來講過去部分據立委的地譜大概要多少時間啊"},{"start":370.558,"end":388.918,"text":"部份區立委的一個地補程序有幾個過程第一個部分就是立委辭職以後我們會簽奉院長來核定以後來函中選會還有內政部來註銷這個名籍那第二個程序是中選會會依選法法規定在15日內公告地補然後"},{"start":389.679,"end":392.101,"text":"對嘛!民進黨有點學問好不好沒有常識沒有知識起碼去考據一下嘛"},{"start":418.118,"end":431.413,"text":"紅森漢是11月25日接任勞動部長王逸川是12月2日在立法院宣誓就職沒錯吧就一個禮拜阿別人一個禮拜沒事你王逸川一個禮拜叫做刁難他阿你王逸川是皇帝還是什麼今生"},{"start":437.042,"end":464.835,"text":"徒在身上啊 碰不得啊 要跟人家就不一樣啊更好笑的是竟然王逸川可以成為民進黨衝關一路拼戒嚴肯定戒嚴的一個理由搞到半天竟然是支持尹錫悅戒嚴肯定尹錫悅戒嚴為了自由新人體制竟然是為了王逸川你民進黨不要笑死人好不好"},{"start":466.172,"end":489.566,"text":"再下一個我也要跟民主組長講謝謝你剛剛回答很清楚不要讓這些抹黑黨在那邊亂抹黑像剛剛拿出鐵證來打臉他們一個禮拜時間什麼叫刁難別人一個禮拜不叫刁難你一個禮拜叫刁難莫名其妙的民進黨再下一個我就要問也是跟您有關跟國會有關這跟國會的安全跟尊嚴有關的問題"},{"start":495.427,"end":523.79,"text":"當然我們萬萬不期待南韓的情況在台灣發生但是呢如果今天我們總統真的跟尹錫悅一樣賴清德跟尹錫悅一樣宣布戒嚴那如果還動用軍隊來攻佔國會逮捕國會議員我想請問這種情形發生的話在法制上在現況上立法院如何因應"},{"start":525.868,"end":541.743,"text":"基本上 憲法上國會有家宅權 那我們有家宅權的當然有一些防禦的一個配置面對是國軍 軍隊 武裝部隊 你的防禦 有辦法防禦嗎還有一個問題喔 能防禦嗎"},{"start":549.606,"end":570.918,"text":"總統下令軍隊來打國會﹖國會就算說今天有國會的駐衛警﹖國會的駐衛警能夠去跟軍隊﹖不要講能力啦﹖我講說法制上他能夠防禦嗎﹖還是大門一開就讓軍隊進來﹖實質上這個是勢力非常懸殊﹖第二個部分就法制層面來看﹖不應該有這種情況發生﹖在南韓也不應該這種情況發生﹖南韓是民主國家﹖"},{"start":575.464,"end":603.579,"text":"也是民主國家然後用的所謂的攻打國會理由跟民進黨87%相像啊所以這個部分應該還是有那個憲政機關來互相尊重我要跟大家講今天南韓最後坦白講我覺得接近總統政變了總統在推翻民主總統在推翻憲政用的理由就是民進黨現在用的理由可是還好南韓我覺得的民主的根基是深厚的"},{"start":604.998,"end":630.209,"text":"顯然他們的軍隊也沒那麼配合所以這個總統想要遂行個人的意志來顛覆民主政權短短幾個小時昨天晚上就失敗了半夜宣布的戒嚴早上起來就不見了這個是今天真的能夠抵抗獨裁者最重要的韌性所以在這邊因為南韓昨天發生這麼重大的事情而且跟國會有關的"},{"start":631.826,"end":635.731,"text":"所以今天在這邊也來救教一下副秘書長 最後還是一個簡單的結論尹錫悅瘋了啦 但民進黨更瘋 進來就肯定尹錫悅瘋狂的民進黨 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":682,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時31分）主席，有請張副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：請教副秘書長，南韓總統尹錫悅昨天深夜宣布緊急戒嚴令，還派出武裝部隊試圖攻入議會大廈，要逮捕參加會議的國會議員。你身為國會的工作人員，對於尹錫悅這種宣布戒嚴，甚至用軍事力量來攻擊國會的作法，你怎麼看？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上民主憲政國家不應該用這種方式來處理。"],["羅委員智強：好，不應該，所以你不認同這個作法，但是我要告訴大家，民進黨立法院黨團可是非常認同啊！他在尹錫悅宣布戒嚴令之後的第一時間，就發出一個貼文，我把第一段唸給副秘書長聽：「南韓國會被親北韓勢力操控，南韓總統尹錫悅為守護自由憲政體制，緊急宣布全國戒嚴。」我聽到民進黨說，肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由的憲政體制，我說真的，我的下巴都被嚇到快掉下來，我不知道今天副秘書長，這新聞你有看到吧！對不對？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有。"],["羅委員智強：如果很不方便回答，我就不問。我覺得任何正常的我們臺灣民眾，聽到民進黨去肯定戒嚴，還說這叫做守護自由憲政體制，下巴全部會嚇到掉下來。我只能說權力使人瘋狂，但尹錫悅讓民進黨瘋狂啊！尹錫悅這樣的一個戒嚴的動作，整個民進黨好像馬上就是原形畢露，就立刻把羊皮外衣脫掉，狼性就展現出來了。另外，尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，想要動用軍隊攻占國會，他的理由是什麼，不知道副秘書長知道嗎？他有兩個理由。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：請委員指示。"],["羅委員智強：一個是在野黨癱瘓政府，另外一個是要鏟除親北韓勢力。我不知道秘書長聽起來有沒有覺得很熟悉，非常有既視感，因為這不是在南韓發生而已啊！過去這一年在我們立法院，當我們在追超思雞蛋、當我們在審預算、民進黨的浪費、當我們在揪出今天民進黨把就業安定基金當作自己的小金庫、當我們在監督民進黨殘害文官、踐踏文官、霸凌文官種種事情的時候，民進黨扣的帽子是什麼？就是我們癱瘓政府啊！就是我們變成是所謂親共的勢力，也難怪今天尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，民進黨會這麼嗨，真的是秒發文耶！速度極快，雖然後來刪文了啦！速度非常快，把他的心聲說出來了嘛！民進黨可能恨自己慢了一步，尹錫悅做到了，民進黨沒來得及做到，他可能恨這件事情。跟民進黨的論調完全一樣，這不是我個人的主觀感受，抱歉，民進黨立法院黨團的貼文，除了第一段大大地肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴是為了守護自由憲政體制，它的第二段、第三段講的是什麼？講的就是藍、白癱瘓政府，民進黨在抵抗世界級的暗黑勢力，就跟尹錫悅一模一樣啊！","我想請問，大家去想一件事情，剛剛副秘書長已經講到了，你也不認同這個作法，到底尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，您覺得他是在守護自由憲政體制，還是破壞自由憲政體制？您覺得？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，自由民主的社會都應該尊重個人表達意見的權利，至於尹錫悅是基於什麼樣的狀況去作這樣的決定，我想這個部分我不便予以置評。"],["羅委員智強：這個你回答保守，沒有關係，但下一個問題恐怕你的回答就跟立法院直接相關了。我問你，我們偉大的民進黨立法院黨團，很負責任地臚列出為什麼要肯定尹錫悅的戒嚴，是為捍衛自由的憲政體制。它其中有一個理由我看到真的是頭都暈了，它說因為立法院百般刁難王義川就職，民進黨衝冠一怒為義川吶！原來拚戒嚴、肯定戒嚴、擁戴尹錫悅是為了王義川啊！好，問題來了，我想請問，這個問題很嚴肅，請問副秘書長，大院有百般刁難王義川就職嗎？有沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有啊！那為什麼它要說你百般刁難王義川就職呢？為什麼？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我們並不是很清楚。"],["羅委員智強：民進黨說真的，它腦袋到底是塞棉花還是塞木屑啊？你今天隨便掰理由，也要掰出一個有本有據的理由，什麼叫做百般刁難王義川就職？我這樣講啦！就往例來講，過去不分區立委的遞補大概要多少時間？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不分區立委的遞補程序有幾個過程，第一個部分就是，立委辭職以後我們先奉院長核定，去函中選會還有內政部註銷名籍；第二個程序是中選會會依選罷法規定在15日內公告遞補；第三個程序是中選會公告以後會函請司法院派大法官監誓，這個宣誓時間則會協商院長、大法官還有委員的時間辦理宣誓，以往平均的時間大概是一個禮拜。"],["羅委員智強：一個禮拜？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：本次宣誓時間也在一個禮拜左右。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！民進黨有點學問好不好？沒有常識、沒有知識，起碼也要去考據一下嘛！洪申翰是11月25號接任勞動部長，王義川是12月2號在立法院宣誓就職沒錯吧？那就是一個禮拜啊！別人一個禮拜沒事，你王義川一個禮拜叫做刁難他，你王義川是皇帝還是有什麼金身，有黃金塗在身上，碰不得，就是跟人家不一樣！","更好笑的是，竟然王義川可以成為民進黨衝冠一怒拚戒嚴、肯定戒嚴的一個理由。說是為了自由憲政體制支持尹錫悅戒嚴、肯定尹錫悅戒嚴，搞了半天竟然是為了王義川！你民進黨不要笑死人好不好？","再下一個，我也要跟副秘書長講，謝謝你剛剛回答得很清楚，不要讓這些抹黑黨在那邊亂抹黑，像剛剛那樣要拿出鐵證來打臉他們，一個禮拜的時間，什麼叫做刁難？別人一個禮拜不叫刁難，你一個禮拜叫刁難，莫名奇妙的民進黨！","再下一個，我就要問跟您、跟國會有關的，這是跟國會的安全跟尊嚴有關的問題。當然我們萬萬不期待南韓的情況在臺灣發生，但是如果今天我們的總統真的跟尹錫悅一樣，賴清德跟尹錫悅一樣宣布戒嚴，如果還動用軍隊來攻占國會、逮捕國會議員，我想請問這種情形發生的話，在法制上、在現況上立法院會如何因應？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，憲法上國會有家宅權，有家宅權當然就會有防禦的配置。"],["羅委員智強：但你面對的是國軍，是軍隊、是武裝部隊耶！你有辦法防禦嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分……"],["羅委員智強：還有一個問題，能防禦嗎？總統下令軍隊來打國會，國會就算有自己的駐衛警，國會的駐衛警能夠去跟軍隊……不要講能力啦！我就講法制上它能夠防禦嗎？還是大門一開就讓軍隊進來？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：實質上，這個是勢力非常懸殊。第二個部分，就法制層面來看，不應該有這種情況發生，因為既然是……"],["羅委員智強：在南韓也不應該有這種情況發生，南韓是不是民主國家？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是民主國家。"],["羅委員智強：也是民主國家啊！它所持攻打國會的理由跟民進黨87%相像啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：所以這個部分憲政機關還是應該要互相尊重啦！"],["羅委員智強：我要跟大家講，今天南韓最後……坦白講，我覺得這件事情是總統政變，總統在推翻民主、推翻憲政，用的理由就是民進黨現在用的理由，還好我覺得南韓的民主根基是深厚的，顯然他們的軍隊也沒那麼配合，所以這個總統想遂行個人的意志顛覆民主政權，昨天晚上短短幾個小時就失敗了，半夜宣布了戒嚴，早上起來就不見了。這個是今天真的能夠抵抗獨裁者最重要的韌性，因為南韓昨天發生這麼重大的事件，而且還是跟國會有關的，所以今天在這邊也要就教一下副秘書長。","我最後還是要做個簡單的結論，尹錫悅瘋了，但民進黨更瘋，竟然還去肯定尹錫悅，瘋狂的民進黨！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來休息5分鐘。","休息（10時42分）","繼續開會（10時47分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來我們請林思銘委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157763","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157763","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360a3cd6892918fab18b1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a320640a1818b981201f85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:33:53 - 10:44:43","影片長度":"00:10:50","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:33:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:44:43+08:00","duration":650,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.645343750000002,"end":12.450968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.395968750000002,"end":14.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.43346875,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.46721875,"end":17.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.95659375,"end":21.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.73221875,"end":33.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.15221875,"end":34.759718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.78909375,"end":40.969718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":41.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.02034375,"end":41.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.15534375,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.774718750000005,"end":47.399093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.399093750000006,"end":47.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.43284375,"end":47.44971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.44971875,"end":47.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.68596875,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.97284375,"end":48.040343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.040343750000005,"end":48.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.204718750000005,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.508468750000006,"end":51.837218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.29284375,"end":53.322218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.32659375,"end":52.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.149093750000006,"end":57.962843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.688468750000006,"end":58.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.97534375,"end":59.447843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.447843750000004,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.970968750000004,"end":60.03846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.03846875000001,"end":60.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.08909375,"end":61.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.190343750000004,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.962218750000005,"end":62.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.02971875,"end":67.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.603468750000005,"end":63.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.94909375,"end":65.06721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.02909375,"end":68.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.08346875000001,"end":70.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.07909375,"end":70.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.23096875,"end":70.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.97346875000001,"end":71.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.39534375000001,"end":72.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.05346875000001,"end":72.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.15471875,"end":72.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.37409375,"end":72.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.77909375,"end":72.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.79596875,"end":81.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.65596875,"end":77.90909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.14471875000001,"end":84.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.03471875000001,"end":84.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.47346875000001,"end":88.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.48971875000001,"end":92.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.10096875,"end":95.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.26471875,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.80784375,"end":107.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.95909375000001,"end":115.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.49346875,"end":121.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.50596875000001,"end":119.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.14284375000001,"end":130.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.51409375,"end":122.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.11721875,"end":123.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.26471875000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.18409375,"end":129.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.08221875,"end":132.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.43659375000001,"end":143.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.42221875,"end":147.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.35409375,"end":150.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.73784375,"end":147.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.23534375,"end":159.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.80909375000002,"end":151.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.95534375,"end":160.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.78221875,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.03909375,"end":164.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.34284375000001,"end":164.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.61284375000002,"end":169.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.97471875000002,"end":172.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.54409375,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":183.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.58471875,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.50409375,"end":187.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.29284375,"end":187.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.46159375000002,"end":187.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.68096875,"end":191.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.34284375000001,"end":195.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.33784375000002,"end":199.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.43909375,"end":197.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.17284375000003,"end":202.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.74221875,"end":208.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.77034375000002,"end":218.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.42721875,"end":218.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.22034375,"end":220.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.82346875000002,"end":221.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.85284375,"end":223.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.92034375,"end":232.06221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.48409375000003,"end":238.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.25971875000002,"end":239.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.79096875000002,"end":247.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.20409375000003,"end":243.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.09346875000003,"end":250.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.16471875000002,"end":283.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.10971875,"end":252.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.23159375,"end":315.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.48846875000004,"end":285.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.13346875,"end":326.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.31346875,"end":328.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.08534375,"end":330.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.04284375000003,"end":340.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.56471875,"end":337.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.91909375,"end":340.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.85534375000003,"end":340.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.90596875,"end":340.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.93971875,"end":359.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.20971875000004,"end":342.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.70971875000004,"end":358.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.35471875,"end":369.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.61971875,"end":364.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.88471875000005,"end":372.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.63534375,"end":374.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.57159375000003,"end":376.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.69784375,"end":378.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.74846875000003,"end":377.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.36409375000005,"end":459.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.53284375000004,"end":379.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.49846875000003,"end":384.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.67971875,"end":385.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.43034375,"end":387.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.00971875000005,"end":483.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.58534375000005,"end":475.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.37721875000005,"end":492.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.83596875,"end":493.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.50659375000004,"end":498.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.97409375,"end":499.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.44221875000005,"end":500.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.66159375,"end":500.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.88096875,"end":503.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.58534375000005,"end":518.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.92034375,"end":521.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.5359687499999,"end":525.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.3034687500001,"end":532.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.1672187500001,"end":536.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.31846875,"end":536.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.5378437500001,"end":536.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.5715937500001,"end":536.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.7065937500001,"end":538.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.6640937500001,"end":541.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.28846875,"end":566.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.9465937500001,"end":567.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.8915937500001,"end":570.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.76034375,"end":571.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.49846875,"end":574.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.3547187500001,"end":575.5022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.60784375,"end":574.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.5022187500001,"end":575.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.5190937500001,"end":575.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.56971875,"end":575.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.58659375,"end":576.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.1940937500001,"end":578.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.1728437500001,"end":578.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.7590937500001,"end":602.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.87346875,"end":614.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.24721875,"end":617.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.06534375,"end":617.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.5503437500001,"end":619.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.00159375,"end":626.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.0478437500001,"end":621.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.86971875,"end":647.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.64784375,"end":642.95159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.701,"end":33.092,"text":"院長其實很多人都會有一個大哉問就是我們的那些國寶典藏品在故宮到底有沒有得到妥善的保存而且到底有幾件我先請教一下院長你們最近一次清查我們院內的所有的典藏品是什麼時候"},{"start":35.854,"end":42.017,"text":"清查的話是103年103年啊依照博物館法的話是20年進行一次總盤點所以是103年對103年10年前曾經清查過97到101年7月"},{"start":58.775,"end":80.555,"text":"所以到底是哪一個?因為學長你回答問題,你怎麼會給我一個錯誤的答案?我前面的那個印象是錯誤,同仁給我的比較精確。所以正確來講是什麼時候?97到101。到101。101?對。101的清查過,然後按照博物館法應該20年內要再清查一次,所以下一次清查是121年前完成,我這樣講有錯嗎?"},{"start":83.226,"end":102.12,"text":"呃,理論上是這樣,沒有錯。好,那請問一下上次清查總共幾件?故宮點餐品總共幾件?呃,69萬多件,精確的數據的話可能…69萬多件是不是?對。要不要後面的提醒一下?因為現在的件數的話就是歷年有兼政然後是會滾動,現在是69萬8兼887件。69萬8,那裡面有分幾種等級?"},{"start":109.036,"end":110.878,"text":"國保幾件?現在當院長要什麼樣的人可以當?"},{"start":133.154,"end":150.907,"text":"國寶在你們故宮博物院的典藏應該是最重要的一件事情結果我問你國寶有幾件?這個對你來講應該是太陽從東邊西邊出來一樣的答案你都答不出來國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾件?國寶有幾"},{"start":159.994,"end":166.477,"text":"議長,請問一下你們清查這些國寶或古物,重要古物的話,有外部集合機制嗎?有外部的委員長。外部委員是怎麼集合?"},{"start":185.526,"end":208.216,"text":"外部委員參與那個參與盤點就每一次都要有兩位的外部委員每一次都要兩個外部委員那兩個外部委員會重複嗎?不會?就同樣從頭到尾就是兩個外部委員沒有沒有不可能委員不可能不可能嘛對不對好那我想問一下除了外部委員參與清查之外調查報告出來之後還有一個外部稽查機制嗎?"},{"start":209.807,"end":231.781,"text":"例如說,你們這份報告出來之後,你交給哪個外部單位,然後那個外部單位可以根據你所清查的結果進行抽查,有嗎?有這個機制嗎?呃,我想過去應該沒有吧。沒有是不是?未來的話我一定會做。那這樣子院長,那你們清查的結果,我覺得很難讓外界了解到,就是到底這個清查是否相實啊?"},{"start":232.54,"end":250.62,"text":"所以是否可以增加一個外部清查機制就是你把你們清查的調查報告下次一定會下次怎麼做要怎麼做那如果現在我們可能現在大家都有這樣的疑問那我們現在可以怎麼去清查現在怎麼可以藉由外部的機制來抽查"},{"start":251.209,"end":273.026,"text":"我先講就是正常的一個記查程序的話就正常一個大盤點的話就是點檢我們叫點檢點檢的話是不只是看數量而且看作品的狀況那基本上來講的話要有業單位要有廣方的人要有兩位的外部的委員然後還要有政風所以這是一個內部沒有我講的不是你們內部我講的是外部"},{"start":273.106,"end":290.767,"text":"外部的機制的話當然就是說這個部分我們會研議也許找一個所謂的公證單位然後在整個盤點的過程裡面就派人參與因為現在我們變成要等到121年嘛但我就講了嘛我說現在就很多每次只要有故宮的議題大家都在問啦這些"},{"start":292.549,"end":315.602,"text":"國寶這些所謂你講的重要文物到底有沒有得到妥善保存它會不會遺失了我們不知道到底有沒有掉了我們不知道到底有沒有破損了我們不知道到底有什麼外部的監理機制可以進入到這個系統裡面讓大家可以知道其實這些國寶我現在是善意的讓這些國寶被大家知道有妥善的保存有什麼樣的機制可以做到公開透明"},{"start":317.363,"end":317.823,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管預算案"},{"start":334.173,"end":356.13,"text":"讓大家知道說故宮的博寶現在被妥占保存而且沒有遺失,明年前可不可以?可以,我跟委員報告就大盤點所謂的20年的遺失的大盤點之外的話我們每一季包括我自己包括那個單位的主管都會每一季都會抽點抽點的話是用電腦隨機去寫對啦那個是院長嘛那還是屬於內部我先講外部嘛"},{"start":358.191,"end":360.252,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮"},{"start":380.115,"end":399.735,"text":"這個會議結束前好不好?好不好?然後1月20幾號前提一個初步想法給我我們把外部的監理機制把它建立起來因為太多人懷疑這件事情接下來幾個細部的事情跟你討論一下第一個有關於解凍案你這邊提到說解凍案其中有一項是要處理土黨的外流事件"},{"start":400.436,"end":416.319,"text":"那在你們的後續改善措施裡面這邊有提到112年3月17號曾經有跟淘寶網發出律師函提出希望他們可以把那些打包的土檔下架的主張這是你們的報告裡面所寫的嘛"},{"start":416.9,"end":443.995,"text":"那這邊有講說確實有部分的成效啦因為部分商品已經下架可是問題是那個是112年3月做的已經一年多以前了那我們來看我們最近找到的資料我這邊列出來的全部都是在淘寶上面有一些店家他就是在做打包圖檔銷售的工作那這個部分在故宮的認定裡面其實這個也是不OK的這也是侵權的"},{"start":444.735,"end":459.701,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":460.65,"end":480.148,"text":"寫買過的店為什麼會寫買過的店因為我助理在今年年初的應該是第一次我們質詢院長的時候那是應該3、4月的時候已經半年前了同樣的店半年還一直存在代表說這半年來故宮對於要求淘寶下架這一些所謂的清錢店家沒有進行進一步的動作我想問說為什麼從112年3月之後就沒有再進一步的動作"},{"start":484.72,"end":496.992,"text":"跟委員報告就113年9月10月11月我們都有都有都有跟那個113年9月對所以112年3月之後就跳到113年9月沒有"},{"start":500.512,"end":500.532,"text":"〔記者〕"},{"start":521.442,"end":536.698,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":536.958,"end":552.67,"text":"這就是同一家啦院長請你盡快好不好不然你這邊講說你們已經改善了實際上我們查的結果就是沒有改善啊感覺好像故宮對於侵權這個事情就是不重視好再來一個很快講一下上次有這也是後續的追蹤啦上次有"},{"start":552.91,"end":571.988,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":572.523,"end":573.824,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":592.719,"end":616.747,"text":"目前來講的話資品人只有一個人可以修復上次你跟你提過那您提後來我們的結論是講說你要跟行政院去爭取人力嘛啊不曉得有去爭取了嗎呃我有跟那個人種那邊跟他們溝通那他們現在也在進行故宮的人力盤點那如果說短期沒有辦法的話因為我們會用基金的方式先行禁用所以說是指資品還是所有的各類的呃"},{"start":618.981,"end":647.247,"text":"當然是…當然是製品那製品的話基本上來講的話我們希望說找到一個類似的不是只會專修製品啦因為基本上來講的話他有一些人才的話如果他的那個修復的幅度比較廣況的話可以修復到其他的器物因為製品也不是製品他也有什麼馬腦啊有什麼東西上面所以這個部分的話我們會去找適當的人才增補OK好好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":790,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時34分）麻煩請院長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：院長好。其實很多人都會有一個大哉問，就是我們的那些國寶、典藏品在故宮到底有沒有得到妥善的保存，而且到底有幾件，我先請教一下院長，你們最近一次清查院內所有的典藏品是什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是103年，依照博物館法的話，是20年進行一次總盤點。"],["葉委員元之：所以是103年？10年前曾經清查過？"],["蕭院長宗煌：97到101年7月。"],["葉委員元之：所以到底是哪一個？院長回答問題，你怎麼會給我一個錯誤的答案？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我前面的那個印象是錯誤的，同仁給我的比較清楚。"],["葉委員元之：所以正確來講是什麼時候？"],["蕭院長宗煌：97年到101年。"],["葉委員元之：101年清查過，然後按照博物館法應該20年內要再清查一次，所以下一次清查是121年以前完成，我這樣講有錯嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：理論上是這樣，沒有錯。"],["葉委員元之：那請問一下，上次清查故宮典藏品總共有幾件？"],["蕭院長宗煌：六十九萬多件，精確的數據的話可能要……"],["葉委員元之：六十九萬多件，是不是？後面的人員要不要提醒一下？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為現在的件數，就是歷年如果有捐贈會滾動，現在是69萬8,887件。"],["葉委員元之：六十九萬八，裡面有分幾種等級？"],["蕭院長宗煌：如果依照文資法分等級的話，是國寶、重要古物跟一般古物。"],["葉委員元之：國寶幾件？院長，我問的應該都是基本的，這應該不是故意為難你吧，你是故宮院長，我問你國寶幾件？你還答不出來，我的天啊！現在當院長要怎麼樣的人可以當？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為它一直在滾動增加。"],["葉委員元之：國寶在你們故宮博物院典藏應該是最重要的一件事情，結果我問你國寶幾件，這個對你來講，應該是太陽從東邊出來一樣的答案，你都答不出來，國寶幾件？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為我要精確的數字。"],["葉委員元之：國寶幾件？"],["蕭院長宗煌：4萬9,003件。"],["葉委員元之：那下一個等級。"],["蕭院長宗煌：重要古物的話是3萬5,858件。"],["葉委員元之：加起來大概多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：加起來的話是……算術不好。"],["葉委員元之：這你根本不用去算好不好？這你應該對答如流。好啦！院長，我想問一下，你們清查這些國寶或重要古物，有外部稽核機制嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有，有外部委員參與。"],["葉委員元之：外部委員是怎麼稽核？"],["蕭院長宗煌：外部委員參與盤點。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼參與？"],["蕭院長宗煌：就每一次都要有兩位的外部委員。"],["葉委員元之：那兩位外部委員會重複嗎？不會？就是從頭到尾就是這兩個外部委員？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有、沒有，委員，不可能。"],["葉委員元之：那我想問一下，除了外部委員參與清查之外，調查報告出來之後，還有一個外部稽查機制嗎？譬如你們這份報告出來之後，你交給哪個外部單位，然後那個外部單位可以根據你的清查結果進行抽查，有這個機制嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想過去應該沒有吧。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：未來我們一定會做。"],["葉委員元之：好，院長，這樣你們清查的結果，我覺得很難讓外界了解到這個清查是否詳實，所以是否可以增加一個外部稽查機制？就是把你們清查的調查報告……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，下次一定會。"],["葉委員元之：下次，怎麼做？要怎麼做？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講……"],["葉委員元之：現在大家都有這樣的疑問，那我們可以怎麼去清查，現在可以怎麼藉由外部機制來抽查？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我先講正常的稽查程序的話，正常的一個大盤點就是點檢，我們叫「點檢」，點檢就不只是看數量，而且看作品的狀況。基本上要有業務單位，有館方的人、2位外部委員，還要有政風，所以這是一個內部……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，我講的不是你們內部，我講的是外部。"],["蕭院長宗煌：外部機制的話，當然這個部分我們會研議，也許找一個所謂的公正單位，在整個盤點的過程裡面派員參與，因為不可能……"],["葉委員元之：現在我們變成要等到121年……"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為……"],["葉委員元之：但我就講了，我就說現在就有很多人，每一次只要有故宮的議題大家都在問，這些國寶、這些所謂你講的重要文物到底有沒有得到妥善保存？它會不會遺失了，我們不知道；到底有沒有掉了，我們不知道；到底有沒有破損了，我們不知道，到底有什麼外部的監理機制可以進入到這個系統裡面，讓大家可以知道其實這些國寶……我現在是善意的，讓這些國寶被大家知道有妥善地保存，有什麼樣的機制可以做到公開透明？"],["蕭院長宗煌：博物館內部管理的話，當然外部的稽核機制，以目前來講，因為我過去在文化部，我知道是沒有，可是……"],["葉委員元之：沒有嘛！對，我現在就在講怎麼樣可以有外部機制。"],["蕭院長宗煌：可是可以來建立這樣的一個機制。"],["葉委員元之：那我想問，在明年可不可以有這個外部機制出來？至少讓大家知道故宮的國寶現在被妥善保存，而且沒有遺失，可不可以？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為現在……"],["葉委員元之：明年前可不可以？"],["蕭院長宗煌：可以。"],["葉委員元之：可以喔！那要怎麼做？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員報告，就是大盤點，所謂20年一次的大盤點之外，我們在每一季，包括我自己、單位主管每一季都會抽點，抽點是用電腦隨機選件……"],["葉委員元之：院長，那還是屬於內部。"],["蕭院長宗煌：那是內部。"],["葉委員元之：我現在是講外部。"],["蕭院長宗煌：外部的部分……"],["葉委員元之：這樣好不好？我們現在的目標就是明年前可以建立一個外部機制，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["葉委員元之：那你幾個月內提一個你的想法給我，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好……"],["葉委員元之：大概多久？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分我要評估，因為……"],["葉委員元之：你就提一個想法給我，大概什麼時候提出來？"],["蕭院長宗煌：3個月內。"],["葉委員元之：3個月？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["葉委員元之：這個會期結束前，好不好？大概1月二十幾號前。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["葉委員元之：提一個初步想法給我，我們把外部的監理機制建立起來。"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK。"],["葉委員元之：因為太多人懷疑這件事情。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["葉委員元之：接下來幾個細部的事情跟你討論，第一個，有關於解凍案，解凍案其中有一項是要處理圖檔的外流事件。在你們的後續改善措施這邊提到，112年3月17日曾經向淘寶網發出律師函，提出希望他們可以把那些打包圖檔下架的主張，這是你們的報告裡面所寫的；這邊又講確實有部分成效，因為部分商品已經下架。但問題在於那是112年3月做的，已經是一年多以前了。","那麼來看我們最近找到的資料，我這邊列出來的全部都是在淘寶上面的，有一些店家就是在做打包圖檔銷售工作，這部分在故宮的認定裡面，其實這個也不OK、是侵權。可是你們在112年3月那個時候跟淘寶主張之後，我不知道還有沒有動作，因為這些全部都在啊！譬如我這邊圈起來的一個叫八段錦古籍，它這個就是做圖檔打包的工作，這邊寫「买过的店」，為什麼會寫「买过的店」？因為我的助理在今年年初，應該是第一次我們質詢院長的時候，那時應該是3、4月，已經是半年前了，同樣的店，半年了還一直存在。代表這半年來，故宮對於要求淘寶下架、這一些所謂的侵權店家，沒有進行進一步的動作啊！我想問，為什麼從112年3月之後就沒有再進一步的動作？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，113年9月、10月、11月，我們都有跟那個……"],["葉委員元之：113年9月？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["葉委員元之：所以112年3月之後就跳到113年9月？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有……資料上面是這樣，我們……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，現在還是做得沒有很好啦！因為這全部都是在網站上、都存在的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["葉委員元之：圈起來的那一家店，從今年3月質詢你以來，到現在都還在，等於隔了8個月，中間都沒有什麼動作。所以如果你們希望解凍的話，然後其中有一項，這是成效之一，那沒有達到成效啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，其實我們有動作，可是因為它下架，它又上去，就是反反覆覆，我們一直在處理，起碼每季都會處理。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，這個寫「买过的店」，就不是下架再上去，這就是同一家啦！這就是同一家！"],["蕭院長宗煌：那我們就儘快……"],["葉委員元之：請你儘快，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：同仁請儘快處理。"],["葉委員元之：不然你這邊講你們已經改善了，實際上我們查的結果就是沒有改善啊！感覺好像故宮對於侵權這個事情就是不重視。","再來很快地講一下，這也是後續追蹤，上次問過院長織品部分，你說是只有一個人力、很少。當時我問你織品的時候，你也不是很了解，其實你可以去看很多文獻，上面都有，你可以讀一下。比如我們舉一個清朝的為例，這是清朝的其中一項織品，這個你認得出來嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員講，認不出來。"],["葉委員元之：認不出來？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。因為我不是織品專業。"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係。你看他在修復的時候，他必須要透過顯微鏡，有的要放大65倍，有的要放大50倍，做非常細微的修復。這個部分真的需要專門的人才，如果沒有專門人才沒有辦法做到。可是目前來講，織品只有一個人可以修復，上次已經跟你提過，後來我們的結論是你要跟行政院爭取人力。不曉得有去爭取了嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我有跟人總那邊溝通，他們現在也在進行故宮的人力盤點。如果短期沒有辦法的話，我們會用基金的方式先行進用。"],["葉委員元之：是指織品還是所有各類的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然是織品。織品的話基本上來講，我們希望找到一個類似的，不是只會專修織品，有一些人才，如果他修復的幅度比較廣泛的話，可以修復其他的器物，因為織品也只不是織品，還有瑪瑙或什麼東西在上面。所以這個部分我們會去找適當的人才、增補。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員。接下來我們有請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157761","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157761","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836027c0adc7e99bd407b1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a3206816541f3e3d245755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:22:53 - 10:33:48","影片長度":"00:10:55","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:22:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:33:48+08:00","duration":655,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.79034375,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.10659375,"end":25.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.27159375,"end":35.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.89034375,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.071593750000005,"end":42.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.30284375,"end":45.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.180343750000006,"end":86.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.26221875,"end":100.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.12534375,"end":107.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.55909375,"end":103.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.13659375,"end":110.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.46096875,"end":169.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.91159375,"end":172.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.42596875,"end":202.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.75034375,"end":243.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.53284375,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.87221875,"end":269.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.26721875000004,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.03909375,"end":276.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.02596875,"end":311.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.00784375,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.26909375,"end":322.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.96784375000004,"end":339.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.00784375,"end":351.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.86596875000004,"end":358.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.23221875,"end":360.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.41346875000005,"end":362.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.99534375,"end":368.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.02846875,"end":391.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.15971875,"end":391.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.61534375,"end":401.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.35221875,"end":411.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.11034375,"end":448.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.95659375,"end":457.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.73159375,"end":503.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.15909375,"end":506.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.15034375000005,"end":510.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.29721875,"end":514.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.99284375,"end":520.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.28721875,"end":529.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.3447187500001,"end":609.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.89346875,"end":611.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.5134687500001,"end":626.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.8615937500001,"end":625.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2790937500001,"end":631.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.58221875,"end":632.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.0672187499999,"end":635.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.74159375,"end":638.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.40346875,"end":649.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.10659375,"end":653.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.15659375,"end":655.45596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.25,"end":25.189,"text":"委員長 院長早安 院長在我進入我的質詢主題之前我先就我們昨天晚上的一個很震撼的消息就是關於南韓政府緊急宣布戒嚴當然它不久之後國會就通過戒嚴這個狀況我想請教一下院長我們目前故宮南北院有沒有跟南韓的博物館正在進行連展或是有這樣子策展的規劃"},{"start":27.553,"end":41.411,"text":"韓國的展覽,去年的話,亞洲藝術業主題國是韓國,所以我們在去年整個展覽非常順暢,完全沒有問題。而且去年的話...院長我是請教您說目前有沒有正在進行的聯展或是未來有沒有這樣的規劃?"},{"start":42.392,"end":53.118,"text":"目前沒有目前沒有那其實我知道說我們故宮的這個文物界展交流呢一定是會選擇就是政局比較穩定然後就在整個國際情勢上相對就是比較不有問題的國家但是昨天這個狀況是很突然的齁因為國際政局其實也是瞬息萬變這邊我其實是要提醒院長就是說未來我們故宮過於類似的狀況這樣緊急的狀況完全是出乎意料之外的狀況應該要有一套因應的辦法"},{"start":70.288,"end":85.82,"text":"關於我們的交流的國家臨時有怎樣政治的變化的話我們如何確保我們文物的安全我們有什麼緊急因應的措施這個部分希望院長這邊一定要很嚴謹的來研議對於相對的有突發狀況的時候做什麼處理來保護我們文物的安全"},{"start":86.34,"end":91.641,"text":"議長,我這邊要提醒的是說萬一我們的文物跟國外交流的時候我們文物在其他人的國家那它有什麼緊急的政治的變化的時候對,這個我們要來研議因為過去我們是沒有做這一塊這個部分希望說你們要趕快嚴謹的來討論"},{"start":115.865,"end":131.158,"text":"那接下來本期這邊要就我們故宮數位物件利用權利金達成利便利這個問題來就教我們院長目前我們故宮聯名的這個商品是越來越多元最近最夯的大家很熱烈討論的就是故宮跟屈臣氏聯名的這個商品"},{"start":131.838,"end":150.326,"text":"讓我們典藏文物可以走入我們民眾生活日常那本席過去也一直很一直都在提醒故宮我們要除了自己要開發周邊的也應該積極的跨界的來合作但是根據預算中心的報告我們故宮的數位物件利用權利金達成率是很低的我們從表格上來看在108年還有62.22%比"},{"start":156.089,"end":172.266,"text":"但是來到113年結算到7月的時候我們的達成率只有29.97%那這幾年最低最低的也只有13.75%那這個為什麼這麼低院長你們有沒有去了解過是什麼原因"},{"start":172.486,"end":191.032,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":197.654,"end":199.135,"text":"總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":213.969,"end":238.874,"text":"讓我們國寶的圖檔衍生出來的周邊產品可以走入尋常百姓家那其實這也是我覺得很疑惑的地方當然剛剛院長您說的因為我們開放了部分的圖檔給民眾自己來使用但是其實我們自己本身開發的這些商品以及故宮聯名的商品都是引起很大的討論民眾都非常非常的熱烈那為什麼我們權利金的達成率是很低的我也希望說我們院長這邊要好好地探究我們如何來提升我們這個權利金的這個達成率"},{"start":244.554,"end":246.074,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":272.413,"end":273.413,"text":"一張賣圖片的東西放掉。關於禮品的價格"},{"start":288.198,"end":292.139,"text":"姑宮北院的 112年度的遊客觀眾滿意調查結果顯示,針對禮品的價格滿意度只有57.4%是所有調查項目中滿意度最低的其中不太滿意的有7.5%,非常不滿意的有1.4%院長你覺得這是什麼原因?就是說我們的這個"},{"start":312.885,"end":322.084,"text":"對這個禮品的價格不滿意但是院長您說的就是你們的調查報告裡面是說一個是因為禮品的價格太貴一個是因為禮品的明信片價格太貴院長你覺得是這個原因嗎?"},{"start":323.639,"end":350.74,"text":"不完全是這個樣子啦因為故宮基本上來講的話如果要在故宮或是用故宮人民上架的話故宮會要求他的品質那如果要求他的品質的話相對的話他當然他的價錢會反映在商品上面本席覺得說故宮的禮品集周邊其實我們要打我們主打的對象不只是外國的觀客還有我們自己本地在地的遊客那如果連這個售價是連本地的遊客都沒辦法接受的我給你看一樣東西"},{"start":354.025,"end":357.812,"text":"這一次啊大家很夯的在討論這個院長你知道這個一包賣多少嗎?40塊"},{"start":360.478,"end":369.264,"text":"那你知道外面的商店這個一般賣多少嗎?所以我就說這是品牌嘛因為有品牌的話其實是一樣的東西但是我為什麼要特別跟您講這個東西其實很多遊客去到故宮很多東西他們都很喜歡包括我的助理他也常常去故宮參訪但是他們看到那些磁鐵板是他明明很喜歡他買不下手到最後他再買一包這個回來為什麼?因為這是所有的商品裡面相對是價格比較低的但是它已經是外面售價的兩倍了"},{"start":387.858,"end":410.862,"text":"議長﹗"},{"start":410.882,"end":412.143,"text":"姑宮有做這樣子的考量嗎?姑宮有做這樣子的考量嗎?"},{"start":440.476,"end":446.46,"text":"我們每一樣商品其實我們台灣的觀光客都會知道說只要在觀光地區買的東西一定比較貴一定比較貴那貴要貴得有價值他覺得說我願意去買即便說你這一包如果說他賣200賣300他願意去買的原因是什麼而不是說我逛到這邊我沒有什麼好買我只好買了一個我覺得還是很貴的東西那其實這個東西他吃完了之後他袋子就丟了他其實是沒有什麼紀念價值的"},{"start":467.793,"end":468.493,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮"},{"start":490.006,"end":513.559,"text":"所以這邊我還是要提醒喔這個部分呢除了就是我們這個授權之外我們對商品的定位我們對商品的這個路線我們還是要一個很清楚的這個客群的區分院長你能懂得我的表白嗎?是 這個部分的話我們請教這個表這個表達有夠清楚就是我是希望說您能夠對我們的商品我們怎樣的客群有怎樣的需求我們來做這樣的建議"},{"start":515.74,"end":518.462,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":531.873,"end":532.814,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":547.651,"end":567.422,"text":"如何在未來我們去規劃說我們這些參訪人數如何從外國遊客這邊吸引過來包括我們自己本國的遊客這邊我想給院長一個建議那其實很多除了說我們要加強國外姐妹館這個合作之外呢是不是我們也可以透過明星或是網紅這個旅遊路線來做我們故宮的國際的推銷那其實很多國外的名人來到我們台灣不管是明星網紅那來到台灣第一個都很想要去故宮"},{"start":575.706,"end":599.167,"text":"我們是不是可以參考這樣的方式像有韓國他有這樣的模式就是說他將韓星的旅遊行程做成是一個旅遊建議來向到韓國旅遊的遊客或是他們自己在地的遊客來做推薦然後我們再跟相關的旅行社或是旅遊網站來合作來做成一日的這個行程推薦我相信這個可以吸引到很多的國際遊客請院長跟我們故宮同仁可以思考"},{"start":599.707,"end":609.026,"text":"我們既然要作為國際的博物館不只是我們的館藏專業要很傑出那我們要怎麼彈性的應用這個行銷來提升自己在國際的能見度院長您覺得呢"},{"start":612.41,"end":635.583,"text":"謝謝委員的指導因為我們最近這個禮拜的話也要跟議會網去談怎麼樣讓那個國際的旅客然後可以接高鐵然後可以接旅館可以接故宮包括到藍燕去像很多我剛有提到說很多國外的名人來到台灣他們都會想要去故宮那我們藉由他們的旅遊路線來做成旅遊建議來做成一日遊二日遊"},{"start":639.889,"end":655.367,"text":"議員議員議員議員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":750,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時22分）謝謝主席，請蕭院長。"],["主席：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員早。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長早安。在我進入我的質詢主題之前，我先就昨天晚上一個很震撼的消息，就是關於南韓政府緊急宣布戒嚴，當然不久之後國會就通過解嚴，我想請教一下院長，我們目前故宮南北院有沒有跟南韓的博物館正在進行聯展？或是有這樣子策展的規劃？"],["蕭院長宗煌：韓國展覽的話，去年亞洲藝術節主題國是韓國，我們去年整個展覽非常順暢，完全沒有問題，而且去年因為……"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，我是請教您說，目前有沒有正在進行的聯展，或是未來有沒有這樣的規劃？"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前沒有。"],["陳委員秀寳：目前沒有喔？那其實……"],["蕭院長宗煌：未來的話是有可能。"],["陳委員秀寳：我知道我們故宮的文物借展交流一定是會選擇政局比較穩定，在整個國際情勢上相對比較不會有問題的國家，但是昨天這個狀況是很突然的，因為國際政局其實也是瞬息萬變，我其實是要提醒院長，未來我們故宮對於類似這樣緊急的狀況，完全是出乎意料之外的狀況，應該要有一套因應的辦法，萬一我們交流的國家臨時有怎樣政治的變化的話，如何確保我們文物的安全，我們有什麼緊急因應的措施？這個部分希望院長這邊一定要很嚴謹地來研議，對於相對的有突發狀況的時候，做什麼處理來保護我們文物的安全。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，因為過去在故宮裡面的話，當然我們有地震、火災、水災這些防護措施，可是因應地緣關係的這種緊急突發狀況的話，其實……"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，我這邊要提醒的是，萬一我們的文物跟國外交流的時候，我們文物在其他人的國家，它有什麼緊急的政治變化的時候……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，這個我們要來研議，因為過去我們是沒有做這一塊。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，這個部分希望你們要趕快嚴謹地來討論。","接下來本席要就故宮數位物件利用權利金達成率偏低這個問題來就教院長，目前故宮聯名的商品是越來越多元，最近最夯的、大家很熱烈討論的就是故宮跟屈臣氏聯名的商品，讓典藏文物可以走入我們民眾生活日常。本席過去也一直都在提醒故宮，我們除了自己要開發周邊，也應該積極地跨界合作，但是根據預算中心的報告，故宮的數位物件利用權利金達成率是很低的，我們從表格上來看，在108年還有62.22%，但是來到113年，結算到7月的時候，達成率只有29.97%，這幾年最低最低的也只有13.75%，這個為什麼這麼低？院長，你們有沒有去了解過是什麼原因？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為故宮推出了Open Data，Open Data可以讓外界自由應用故宮的圖檔，所以在Open Data的部分，IP授權的權利金達成率當然是偏低，逐年降低，基本上來講這是讓利給民間，但是出版授權跟品牌授權的話，我們權利金都增加了，所以整體來講，它是朝正向的發展。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，再連結到今天解凍的這個報告，其實圖檔侵權也是我們故宮要去考慮的問題，我們如何在開放故宮跟防止侵權之間，讓我們國寶的圖檔衍生出來的周邊產品可以走入尋常百姓家，其實這也是我覺得很疑惑的地方，當然剛剛院長您說的，因為我們開放部分的圖檔給民眾自己來使用，但是其實我們自己本身開發的這些商品以及故宮聯名的商品，都是引起很大的討論，民眾都非常非常的熱烈，那為什麼我們權利金的達成率是很低的？我也希望我們院長這邊要好好的探究，如何來提升我們權利金的達成率？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為Open Data跟IP的授權，基本上來講它有一點競合關係，因為Open Data開放的越多的話，既然它可以自由取用圖片，它就不會跟故宮用買的方式來進行。我們現在在推的就是品牌授權跟出版授權，品牌授權跟出版授權都一定要跟故宮合作，所以這個部分，我們是把一張一張賣圖片的那個東西放掉。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，因為今天時間比較沒有那麼長，接下來你要告訴我的這個部分，你就做一個報告送到我辦公室。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：接下來我要跟你這邊了解的就是關於禮品的價格，故宮北院112年度的遊客觀眾滿意調查結果顯示，針對禮品的價格滿意度只有57.4%，是所有調查項目中滿意度最低的，其中不太滿意的有7.5%，非常不滿意的1.4%，院長，你覺得是什麼原因？就是對禮品的價格不滿意，但是你們的調查報告裡面是說一個是因為禮品的價格太貴，一個是因為禮品的明信片價格太貴，院長，你覺得是這個原因嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不完全是這個樣子啦，因為基本上來講，如果要在故宮或用故宮聯名上架的話，故宮會要求它的品質，如果要求它的品質的話，相對的，價錢會反映在商品上面。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，其實本席覺得故宮的禮品及周邊，我們主打的對象不只是外國觀光客，還有在地的遊客，如果這個售價是連本地的遊客都沒辦法接受的，我給你看一樣東西，這一次大家討論很夯的是這個，院長，你知道這個一包賣多少嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：40塊。"],["陳委員秀寳：那你知道外面的商店這個一包賣多少嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：所以我就說這是品牌，因為有聯名品牌的話……"],["陳委員秀寳：其實是一樣的東西，我為什麼要特別跟您講這個東西？其實很多遊客到故宮，很多東西他們都很喜歡，包括我的助理他也常常去故宮參訪，但是他們看到那些磁鐵板，明明很喜歡，但他買不下手，到最後他只好買一包這個回來，因為這是所有的商品裡面相對價格比較低的，但是它已經是外面售價的兩倍了，外面一包乖乖賣20塊，這個一包賣40塊。為什麼要讓我們的商品是那樣子，說我看中這個卻買不下手，只好買一包乖乖回去？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，乖乖的自有品牌，一印也許是20萬包，可是故宮只做2萬包，那個成本價格當然就不一樣。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長，這個是一回事，我現在要提醒您的就是，我們要走精緻質感的精品路線，還是走親切的平價路線？我們的商品價格如何做區隔？如何去定位今天這樣的紀念品，或是遊客願意帶回去的商品？我們到底要如何看遊客的需要來設定商品？故宮有做這樣的考量嗎？我們臺灣的觀光客都知道，只要在觀光地區買的東西一定比較貴，但貴要貴得有價值，讓人願意去買，即便這包賣200、賣300，但他願意去買，而不是說我逛到這邊，沒有什麼好買，只好買了一個我覺得還是很貴的東西，其實這個東西他吃完了之後，袋子就丟了，是沒有什麼紀念價值的。我們如何去開發一個讓遊客買了很滿意、很喜歡而且會留下來當作紀念的商品？就是我到故宮去了，我有買一個這樣的商品回家，這是故宮應該要思考的。而且這份遊客的滿意度調查也是你們自己做的，我相信你們自己看了這樣的結果之後，你們本身也會有所考量。所以這邊我還是要提醒，這個部分除了授權之外，我們對商品的定位、商品的路線，還是要有一個很清楚的客群的區分，院長，你能懂得我表達的嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，這個部分的話，我們請……"],["陳委員秀寳：這個表達有夠清楚，就是我希望您能夠了解怎樣的客群有怎樣的需求，來做這樣的……"],["蕭院長宗煌：就是針對不同的客群提供不同的商品服務。"],["陳委員秀寳：對，最後我收一下尾，關於故宮的參訪人數，之前院長您在你們的餐會的時候有講，你希望你們的參訪人數達到350萬，但是到現在你也知道實際參訪人數有相當大的落差，我相信到年底也沒辦法達成這樣子的參訪人數，那麼未來如何吸引外國遊客，包括本國的遊客？我想給院長一個建議，除了加強國外姐妹館的合作之外，是不是也可以透過明星或網紅的旅遊路線來做故宮的國際推銷？其實很多國外的名人來到我們臺灣，不管是明星或網紅，來到臺灣第一個都很想要去故宮，我們是不是可以參考這樣的方式？像韓國就有這樣的模式，就是將韓星的旅遊行程做成一個旅遊建議，推薦給到韓國旅遊的遊客或是在地的遊客，然後再跟相關的旅行社或旅遊網站合作，做成一日的行程推薦，我相信這樣可以吸引到很多的國際遊客，請院長跟故宮的同仁可以思考。我們既然要做國際的博物館，不只是我們的館藏專業要很傑出，我們要怎麼彈性的應用行銷來提升自己在國際的能見度，院長，您覺得呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：謝謝委員的指導，因為我們最近這個禮拜也要跟易飛網去談怎麼樣讓國際的旅客可以接高鐵、可以接旅館、可以接故宮，包括到南院去。"],["陳委員秀寳：我剛剛有提到，很多國外的名人來到臺灣，他們都會想要去故宮。"],["蕭院長宗煌：名人的部分的話當然就在……"],["陳委員秀寳：那我們就可以藉由他們的旅遊路線來做成一日遊、二日遊的旅遊建議。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們去年舉辦故宮之夜，我們有找網紅，這個部分其實成效不錯，我們可以接續來研議。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，那就請院長多努力，謝謝主席，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員。","接下來有請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157760","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157760","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360028f1528bb08e4214a6acd55cc740f50f169037e582a3206e335e2cb9b568a595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:25:15 - 10:33:13","影片長度":"00:07:58","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:25:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:33:13+08:00","duration":478,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":2.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.047218750000001,"end":4.890968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.076593750000001,"end":5.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.13971875,"end":7.995968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.83971875,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.501593750000001,"end":14.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.864093750000002,"end":19.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.48346875,"end":20.922218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.46221875,"end":27.199718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.043468750000002,"end":32.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.24096875,"end":33.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.42221875,"end":35.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.48096875,"end":38.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.04596875,"end":39.720968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.024718750000005,"end":43.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.564093750000005,"end":45.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.88034375,"end":48.141593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.27221875,"end":51.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.837218750000005,"end":54.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.55409375,"end":59.127218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.92034375,"end":63.632843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.632843750000006,"end":70.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.46721875,"end":74.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.33159375000001,"end":74.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.55096875000001,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.60159375,"end":78.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.97284375000001,"end":76.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.23409375,"end":77.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.56721875000001,"end":82.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.73596875,"end":79.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.48221875,"end":86.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.47721875,"end":90.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.21096875,"end":90.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.59909375000001,"end":92.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.74221875,"end":94.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.58159375000001,"end":95.61096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.99909375,"end":101.87159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.46221875,"end":102.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.67721875000001,"end":109.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.05596875,"end":122.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.56034375,"end":131.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.38221875000002,"end":128.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.57596875000002,"end":140.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.72221875,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.64596875,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.88471875000002,"end":177.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.62346875,"end":178.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.97784375,"end":181.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.23096875000002,"end":179.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.38659375,"end":194.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.75159375,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.81909375,"end":194.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.90346875,"end":199.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.11784375000002,"end":200.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.04596875000001,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.43409375000002,"end":201.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.96971875000003,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.18909375,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.97346875000002,"end":212.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.51659375000003,"end":215.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.28846875000002,"end":218.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.03909375,"end":218.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.47346875000002,"end":275.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.61284375,"end":274.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.99221875,"end":285.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.43346875000003,"end":288.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.62721875,"end":302.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.48159375,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.46846875,"end":309.33284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.12596875,"end":312.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.72471875,"end":316.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.79159375,"end":321.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.03971875,"end":328.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.38471875000005,"end":336.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.78846875000005,"end":338.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.28596875,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.33221875000004,"end":342.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.81284375,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.79971875,"end":347.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.48721875,"end":349.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.78221875,"end":354.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.96284375000005,"end":355.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.68846875,"end":355.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.17784375,"end":356.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.21159375,"end":356.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.97096875,"end":376.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.36034375,"end":378.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.16596875000005,"end":378.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.43596875000003,"end":379.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.15721875,"end":390.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.70846875,"end":400.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.86284375,"end":412.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.05909375000005,"end":422.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.00721875000005,"end":422.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.86784375,"end":422.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":422.88471875000005,"end":423.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.03659375,"end":434.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.78596875000005,"end":434.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.20784375000005,"end":434.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.25846875,"end":434.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.32596875,"end":434.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.57909375,"end":435.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.03471875,"end":435.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.05159375000005,"end":435.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.55784375,"end":435.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.60846875000004,"end":437.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.75596875,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.93721875000006,"end":439.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.86096875000004,"end":440.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.95784375000005,"end":441.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.25721875000005,"end":451.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.42034375000003,"end":452.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.09534375000004,"end":452.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.85471875,"end":453.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.93471875,"end":466.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.74284375,"end":469.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.06346875,"end":467.08034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.08034375000005,"end":468.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.61971875,"end":471.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.32846875,"end":474.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.50096875,"end":477.77909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.089,"end":10.794,"text":"馬英九基金會在做什麼?我來解讀一下蔡英文總統出訪的時候馬英九基金會在安排馬英九前總統去中國參訪做國際媒體的對中國來講做國際媒體的平衡報導"},{"start":28.309,"end":47.649,"text":"現任總統去美國但是我們有卸任總統來中國參訪製造國際的錯覺馬英九基金會這一次在做什麼馬英九基金會這一次安排了這個交流團他要做什麼原來其實馬龍的球迷很多"},{"start":49.554,"end":58.82,"text":"大家也想要看馬龍但是全部的焦點就在馬英九基金會安排我確認一下這是不是安排的齁"},{"start":60.423,"end":86.735,"text":"這個學生的發言是不是馬英九基金會安排的?主委是根本原報告就我們初步了解他每天都會安排兩位學生對外這個安排那個媒體的聯訪所以基金會有安排每天兩位發言他沒有安排馬龍來講這句話他反而安排了一個比較不重要的人來講這句話但是"},{"start":87.475,"end":99.384,"text":"台灣的學生很快就清醒了馬上醒原來這一團是來做什麼的原來這一團是來統戰的原來這一團最主要的目的就是要講出中國臺北這四個字對不對那"},{"start":103.795,"end":121.493,"text":"除了我們官方單位除了確認一下這個馬英九基金會他有做這個安排之外之外呢其實我們的學生非常自主的大家也覺醒所以這個交流團馬上被識破其實他就是糖衣毒藥"},{"start":122.634,"end":125.356,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":142.327,"end":167.958,"text":"那我們在這個事情發生的時候我們也有多次跟馬英九基金會要求他們必須按照書面聲明的切結來遵守同時也要遵守我們相關的法令包括大陸來台許可辦法相關的規定這個已經違反對等尊嚴的不但言行我想我們在事後相關主管機關都會收集相關的事證"},{"start":169.238,"end":172.621,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":195.498,"end":218.084,"text":"一到十月中國大陸來台應該大概在三十二萬是他們不願意來還是被限制我認為問題的本質在他們還沒有開放入客來台中國還沒有開放入客來台嗎那現在已經開放的部分是金門只有在金門而已金門馬祖那主委你有什麼話要對金門的觀光業講"},{"start":219.52,"end":232.694,"text":"我想我們經常跟金門的觀光業者都有互動那我們上個月也在到金門那我們是希望這樣金門大概經過五年的疫情他們因為他們的"},{"start":234.956,"end":237.98,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":250.976,"end":277.277,"text":"突然一個宣布又沒了對不對對 因為中國大陸觀光會基本上是這個政策驅動的你就要配合政策來滿足它政策它不是一般市場驅動的觀光客我所謂市場驅動就是說跟你業者的努力跟消費者的選擇有關但是這個政策驅動完全是你要配合中共的政策所以它有風險我要舉一個活生生的例子"},{"start":277.817,"end":304.485,"text":"但是他已經很久已經快被淡忘了就在2009年的時候羅文嘉秘書長講過一句話看電影是我們自己的事當時高雄市政府新聞處主辦了一個電影節主辦單位有一個單位他放了一部電影居然踩中了中國的紅線但是我們放電影是我們自己事看電影也是我們自己的事當年高雄市發生什麼事情"},{"start":305.526,"end":327.811,"text":"高雄市主辦新聞處的處長被國民黨的議長要求下台。第二個,中國發出什麼事情?中國發出所有中國來台灣的旅行團禁止住在高雄的旅館。這個也是另外一個糖衣毒藥。來,秘書長你記得這件事情嗎?"},{"start":328.762,"end":354.276,"text":"謝謝委員提起,我想起來確實有這件事情。當時應該是納比亞的電影。對於中國共產黨來講,這部電影是他不能接受的。所以他要求即使在管轄之外,在中華民國國土領土範圍內,在高雄市,他也想要干預。那當然我們不會被接受,我們不會接受。那不會接受的最後結果就是他停止了所有的該次的活動。"},{"start":355.1,"end":379.777,"text":"而且他禁止那段時間禁止所有的陸客團住宿高雄所以整個高雄的旅宿業當時已經習慣了這些陸客的住宿嘛那就覺得說開始在覺得說那你市政府為什麼要辦這個活動影響我們的生意但是你過了這麼久你再回頭想想看電影是我們自己的事啊為什麼他要管我們看電影"},{"start":380.297,"end":382.338,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":401.489,"end":421.638,"text":"我曾經在內政部來這邊備詢的時候我也提出來包含剛剛其他委員也有講的國籍法的問題那我想請主委我只講一個陸配來台取得身份證放棄戶籍就可以了但是陸配要放棄國籍是有困難的對不對"},{"start":423.695,"end":451.801,"text":"我覺得他要努力放棄看看因為中共的國籍法第4條也有一些放棄的事由要去努力放棄要去努力放棄要去努力放棄看看但是沈和全還是在中國有一天如果你中華民國的立法委員聲稱你已經放棄中國國籍但是中國隔天可以宣布你還是中國公民可不可以這樣"},{"start":452.898,"end":457.76,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2245,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（10時25分）謝謝，我們請邱主委還有秘書長。"],["主席：好，請邱主委、羅副董事長兼秘書長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：李委員好。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，馬英九基金會在做什麼？馬英九基金會在做什麼我來解讀一下，蔡英文總統出訪的時候，馬英九基金會在安排馬英九前總統去中國參訪，對中國來講，做國際媒體的平衡報導，現任總統去美國，但是我們有卸任總統來中國參訪，製造國際的錯覺。馬英九基金會這一次在做什麼？馬英九基金會這一次安排這個交流團，他要做什麼？原來其實馬龍的球迷很多，大家也想要看馬龍，但是全部的焦點就在馬英九基金會安排……我確認一下這是不是安排的，這個學生的發言是不是馬英九基金會安排的？主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，就我們初步了解，他每天都會安排兩位學生對外接受媒體的聯訪，所以應該是他們安排……"],["李委員柏毅：所以基金會有安排每天兩位發言，他沒有安排馬龍來講這句話，他反而安排了一個比較不重要的人來講這句話，但是臺灣的學生很快就清醒了，馬上醒，原來這一團是來做什麼的？原來這一團是來統戰的，原來這一團最主要的目的就是要講出中國臺北這四個字，對不對？我們官方單位除了確認一下馬英九基金會有做這個安排之外，其實我們的學生非常自主地，大家也覺醒了，所以這個交流團馬上被識破，其實他就是糖衣毒藥，穿著馬龍的糖衣來宣導中國臺北的毒藥，主委，你認為這樣說合不合理？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想外界跟委員看法一致的人非常多，我們陸委會也接到非常多的民眾跟委員看法是大致相同。"],["李委員柏毅：我服務處電話也是被打爆啊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，在這個事情發生的時候，我們也有多次跟馬英九基金會要求他們必須按照書面聲明的切結來遵守，同時也要遵守我們相關的法令，包括大陸來臺許可辦法相關的規定，這已經違反對等尊嚴的不當言行，我想我們相關主管機關事後都會蒐集相關的事證，透過既有的行政程序再進一步來確認，做一定的行政作為，請委員放心，我們會依規定來處理。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝主委。我來講第二個糖衣毒藥，來講一下兩岸的觀光，主委，今年到目前為止，國人去中國的有230萬人……"],["邱主任委員垂正：1到10月。"],["李委員柏毅：1到10月，那中國來臺有多少人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：1到10月中國大陸來臺應該大概在32萬……"],["李委員柏毅：他們是不願意來還是被限制？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我認為問題的本質在於他們還沒有開放陸客來臺。"],["李委員柏毅：中國還沒有開放陸客來臺嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，比如說我們……"],["李委員柏毅：現在已經開放的部分是金門、馬祖？"],["邱主任委員垂正：只有金門、馬祖。"],["李委員柏毅：主委，你有什麼話要對金門的觀光業講？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們經常跟金門的觀光業者都有互動，我們上個月也到金門，我們是希望這樣，金門經過了五年的疫情，因為金門、馬祖的產業比較單一化，以觀光產業為主，那個產業對他們來說至關重要，過去他們確實沒有生意做，現在看到比較多的陸客來，但是我們要提醒我們的金門鄉親……"],["李委員柏毅：有一天突然一個宣布又沒了，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，因為中國大陸觀光客基本上是政策驅動的，你就是要配合政策、滿足它的政策，他不是一般市場驅動的觀光客，我所謂的市場驅動，就是跟業者的努力、跟消費者的選擇有關，但是政策驅動完全是你要不要配合中共的政策，所以有風險。"],["李委員柏毅：你講的很清楚了。我要舉一個活生生的例子，但是它已經很久、已經快被淡忘了，就在2009年的時候，羅文嘉秘書長講過一句話，看電影是我們自己的事！當時高雄市政府新聞處主辦了一個電影節，主辦單位放了一部電影，居然踩中了中國的紅線，但是我們放電影是我們自己的事、看電影也是我們自己的事，當年高雄市發生什麼事情？高雄市主辦的新聞處處長被國民黨的議長要求下臺，第二個，中國發出什麼事情？中國發出：所有中國來臺灣的旅行團禁止住在高雄的旅館。這個也是另外一個糖衣毒藥，秘書長，你記得這件事情嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝委員提起，我想起來確實有這件事情，當時應該是納比婭的一部電影……"],["李委員柏毅：熱比婭的，對，熱比婭……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：對於中國共產黨來講，這部電影是他不能接受的，所以他要求即使在管轄之外，在中華民國國土領土範圍內、在高雄市他也想要干預。當然我們不會接受，那不會接受的最後結果就是，他停止了該次所有的活動。"],["李委員柏毅：而且他那一段時間禁止所有的陸客團住宿高雄，所以整個高雄的旅宿業當時已經習慣了這些陸客的住宿，就開始會覺得市政府為什麼要辦這個活動影響我們的生意？但是你過了這麼久再回頭想想，看電影是我們自己的事，為什麼他要管我們看電影？他無所不用其極，包含觀光也是他的手段之一。所以主委剛剛這些提醒，我想還是要繼續提醒我們所有……"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果陸客來臺這個政策成為他對臺的經濟脅迫，這是我們國人跟業者需要去面對會有這個風險。"],["李委員柏毅：最後，我曾經在內政部來這邊備詢的時候也提出來，包含剛剛其他委員也有講的國籍法問題，主委，我只講一個，陸配來臺取得身分證，放棄戶籍就可以了，但是陸配要放棄國籍是有困難的，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得他要努力放棄看看，因為中共的國籍法第十條也有一些放棄的事由，要去努力放棄。"],["李委員柏毅：要去努力放棄。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["李委員柏毅：要去努力放棄看看……"],["邱主任委員垂正：畢竟……"],["李委員柏毅：但是審核權還是在中國，有一天如果中華民國的立法委員聲稱你已經放棄中國國籍，但是中國隔天可以宣布你還是中國公民，可不可以這樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：各種的情況都有，我想我們的主管機關內政部針對放棄的部分跟用人權責機關應該會來處理這個事情。"],["李委員柏毅：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請張智倫委員。張智倫委員質詢完，休息5分鐘讓行政單位用個洗手間。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157759","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157759","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083600d4eefdb465051fc2ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a32061a6072d9306be1cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:25:41 - 10:31:10","影片長度":"00:05:29","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:25:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:31:10+08:00","duration":329,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.4353437499999995,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.240343750000001,"end":10.594718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.699718750000002,"end":16.602218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.99034375,"end":18.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":23.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.42846875,"end":21.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.47034375,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.97596875,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.38909375,"end":35.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.21096875,"end":47.314718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.58471875,"end":51.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.735968750000005,"end":56.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.102218750000006,"end":59.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.56596875,"end":65.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.58596875,"end":68.88096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.30284375000001,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.53409375000001,"end":79.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.98471875,"end":82.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.53284375000001,"end":85.08096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.60409375,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.26596875,"end":90.80159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.02096875000001,"end":112.68846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.34659375000001,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.73034375,"end":121.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.69971875,"end":124.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.90596875000001,"end":126.57659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.76221875,"end":128.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.92221875,"end":132.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.15784375,"end":134.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.18284375000002,"end":137.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.11909375000002,"end":139.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.97534375,"end":139.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.21159375000002,"end":142.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.75534375,"end":145.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.47221875,"end":147.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.85159375,"end":150.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.14659375000002,"end":170.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.95784375000002,"end":172.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.43846875,"end":176.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.74159375000002,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.35721875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.15846875000003,"end":183.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.01471875000001,"end":186.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.71471875,"end":189.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.49909375000001,"end":195.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.88221875000002,"end":197.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.41346875000002,"end":199.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.04596875000001,"end":205.92284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.44596875000002,"end":209.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.54659375,"end":211.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.01471875000001,"end":214.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.60909375,"end":217.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.42721875,"end":218.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.25409375,"end":221.09346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.49846875,"end":223.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.74284375000002,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.14346875,"end":225.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.51034375,"end":228.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.91909375,"end":232.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.02409375000002,"end":236.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.90534375000001,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.62221875,"end":240.92159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.05659375000002,"end":242.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.69346875000002,"end":249.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.52346875,"end":251.89034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.48096875000002,"end":256.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.40846875,"end":259.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.54721875,"end":262.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.33159375,"end":266.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.90471875000003,"end":270.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.39784375,"end":272.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.71409375,"end":275.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.97096875,"end":276.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.60784375000003,"end":278.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.59909375,"end":282.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.83909375,"end":284.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.93159375,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.17596875000004,"end":290.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.07409375000003,"end":293.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.79096875,"end":294.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.51221875000005,"end":297.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.84096875,"end":300.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.65909375,"end":306.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.02096875,"end":308.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.28221875,"end":312.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.39971875000003,"end":316.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.07846875,"end":326.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.77284375000005,"end":329.97096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.448,"end":22.725,"text":"我先宣告一下在羅志強委員發言完畢之後我們休息五分鐘主席各位委員有請副秘書長麻煩副秘書長副秘書長好今天來不是針對你們的預算"},{"start":28.089,"end":56.336,"text":"而是如果我們﹐我是期免﹐期免我們立法院的﹐因為畢竟這個立法院在五院之中﹐非常重要的一個角色﹐尤其是在審查預算﹐或是結算的時候都非常重要﹐這個我們就以常常我們的﹐很多的立法委員會常常引用的是什麼呢﹐就是預算中心嘛﹐"},{"start":57.776,"end":84.869,"text":"預算中心的資料這就很重要因為這個立法委員來自各個不同的地方然後的任期也不一定所以然後這個委員的助理的經驗也未必那麼的這個每一個都能夠升任不能講說升任了那麼了解了那麼了解所以預算中心就很重要"},{"start":85.689,"end":113.679,"text":"當然不是只有預算中心包括其他的各處都很重要尤其是各委員會的這些工作人員都很重要所以讓立法院運作的非常達到監督各個院各個部會我們就以這個最近"},{"start":115.17,"end":142.667,"text":"這個被因為霸凌案然後就產生了這個相關的預算的滋用我們就以就業基金來講以這個為例就業安定基金這很清楚的就業安定基金的用途非常清楚用途非常清楚但是卻被挪用作為不應該滋用的地方"},{"start":144.183,"end":170.488,"text":"那表示什麼呢?表示這個預算的編列怎麼樣去把它檢討這個是我們要去當然立委有責任立法院的這些同仁也有責任提供就像預算中心一樣能夠提供好的一個對國家對社會有幫助的部分"},{"start":171.021,"end":199.179,"text":"因為這個就案提及非常重要啊。你看貝爾納用到八千多萬的錢。這很難以想像啊。這裡面還包含著什麼呢?包含著操資並結算啊。因為預算是看不出來啊。在審查預算的時候看不出來就案提及他要做什麼用。他寫的很掛勉堂皇啊。就是符合"},{"start":201.309,"end":228.164,"text":"就要安提金的用途在預算書裡面是符合啊看不出來啊但是為什麼後來可以做這種事情會被挪用就是因為操資並結算很少人知道操資並結算啊連一般的公務員也不知道操資並結算是什麼更何況這個立法委員的這些助理"},{"start":229.943,"end":256.404,"text":"一般公務員也不知道超支並結算那事實上就是超支並結算這個機制顯然有問題預算中心的同仁怎麼樣能夠提出這樣的我也請教過預算中心我雖然是老公務員我30年公務員我還請教過預算中心什麼是超支並結算"},{"start":257.655,"end":285.68,"text":"因為不是每個部會都有這個有這樣的一個機會碰到遭操之並結算尤其是尤其是執行預算非常嚴謹非常依法行政的時候沒有去操之並結算當然也就不知道操之並結算的這個功能還是他的我們講法寶嗎"},{"start":287.553,"end":315.965,"text":"所以這個部分了﹖所以祈勉我們所有的這個立法院的同仁能夠為國家為人民來去守護我們的相關的這些預算的審查結算的審查所以顯然呢審計部沒有顯然沒有好好的就結算的部分來善盡責任了"},{"start":317.125,"end":329.77,"text":"﹗"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":674,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時25分）主席、各位委員。有請副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：副秘書長好。今天來不是針對你們的預算，我是期勉啦！期勉我們立法院，因為畢竟立法院在五院之中是非常重要的一個角色，尤其是在審查預算或是決算的時候都非常重要，我們很多的立法委員常常引用的是什麼？就是預算中心嘛！對不對？預算中心的資料就很重要，因為立法委員來自各個不同的地方，然後任期也不一定，委員助理的經驗也未必都能夠勝任，不能講說勝任，是那麼了解，所以預算中心就很重要。當然不是只有預算中心，包括其他的各處都很重要，尤其是各委員會的這些工作人員都很重要，讓立法院的運作能夠監督各個院、各個部會。","我們就以最近因為霸凌案，然後產生了相關預算的支用，我們以就業基金來講，就以這個為例，就業安定基金的用途非常清楚，但是卻被挪用作為不應該支用的地方，那表示什麼呢？表示檢討預算的編列是我們要去做的，當然立委有責任，立法院的這些同仁也有責任提供，就像預算中心一樣，能夠提供一個好的對國家、對社會有幫助的部分，因為這個就業安定基金非常重要，卻被挪用八千多萬的錢，這很難以想像，這裡面還包含著什麼呢？包含著超支併決算，因為預算書看不出來，在審查預算的時候，看不出來就業安定基金它要做什麼用，它寫得很冠冕堂皇，就是符合就業安定基金的用途，在預算書裡面是符合，看不出來，但是為什麼後來可以做這種事情？會被挪用？就是因為超支併決算，很少人知道超支併決算，連一般的公務員也不知道超支併決算是什麼，更何況立法委員的這些助理，一般公務員也不知道超支併決算，那事實上就是超支併決算這個機制顯然有問題，預算中心的同仁怎麼樣能夠提出這樣的……我也請教過預算中心，我雖然是老公務員，我是30年的公務員，我還請教過預算中心什麼是超支併決算，因為不是每個部會都有這樣的機會碰到超支併決算，尤其是執行預算非常嚴謹、非常依法行政的時候，沒有去超支併決算，當然也就不知道超支併決算的功能，還是我們講法寶嗎？","所以這個部分期勉我們所有立法院的同仁，能夠為國家、為人民來去守護我們相關這些預算的審查、決算的審查，顯然審計部沒有好好的就決算的部分來善盡責任，我從這樣的一個部分來看，是有這樣的一個想法，所以我今天來不是針對你們的預算，而是來期勉大家。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位我們請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157758","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157758","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b05a3ad2871669bb2ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a3206458456231790284f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"10:11:57 - 10:25:28","影片長度":"00:13:31","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:11:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:25:28+08:00","duration":811,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.485343750000002,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.25284375,"end":12.231593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.707843750000002,"end":16.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.73721875,"end":20.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.45846875,"end":18.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.02346875,"end":27.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.313468750000002,"end":32.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.68409375,"end":33.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.06784375,"end":34.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.63284375,"end":46.875968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.10784375,"end":52.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.57534375,"end":59.430968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.02159375,"end":63.767843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.80159375,"end":73.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.28096875,"end":75.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.96846875,"end":77.28471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.04409375,"end":80.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.32221875,"end":84.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.06846875000001,"end":84.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.51971875000001,"end":85.94159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.61659375,"end":88.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.56534375000001,"end":92.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.09221875,"end":104.67284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.85846875,"end":108.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.27971875,"end":110.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.81534375000001,"end":112.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.40159375,"end":119.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.29909375000001,"end":120.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.55221875000001,"end":136.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.62159375000002,"end":146.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.00534375,"end":137.69721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.51846875,"end":150.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.79221875000002,"end":152.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.44159375,"end":154.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.02784375000002,"end":156.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.41159375,"end":160.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.03971875000002,"end":167.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.27159375000002,"end":162.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.34284375000001,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.03846875000002,"end":170.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.22784375,"end":183.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.67846875,"end":176.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.72909375,"end":177.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.56846875000002,"end":179.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.83784375000002,"end":185.68971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.70659375000002,"end":187.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.15784375,"end":189.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.44034375,"end":196.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.34659375,"end":196.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.97909375,"end":200.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.39221875,"end":202.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.20596875,"end":204.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.07471875000002,"end":210.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.52534375000002,"end":217.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.66784375,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.03471875000002,"end":222.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.75971875000002,"end":230.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.45909375000002,"end":231.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.74159375000002,"end":232.21409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.87221875,"end":234.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.79159375,"end":235.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.80846875,"end":236.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.11221875,"end":238.86284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.41159375,"end":248.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.35971875,"end":246.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.44784375,"end":252.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.97471875000002,"end":253.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.97034375,"end":253.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.84784375,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.18471875,"end":263.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.40346875,"end":268.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.20409375,"end":275.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.62971875,"end":273.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.02596875,"end":277.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.35471875,"end":285.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.11721875,"end":288.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.62721875,"end":289.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.36534375,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.20909375,"end":293.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.65596875,"end":297.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.19534375,"end":302.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.90409375,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.31284375,"end":304.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.76846875,"end":303.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.24909375000004,"end":309.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.56534375,"end":307.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.36221875,"end":314.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.09159375,"end":314.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.27721875000003,"end":315.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.03221875,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":316.04909375,"end":316.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.38221875,"end":319.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.36909375000005,"end":325.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.06034375,"end":325.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.46534375000005,"end":328.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.67159375,"end":329.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.13971875000004,"end":332.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.05909375000005,"end":333.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.49346875000003,"end":337.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.37471875,"end":339.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.91034375000004,"end":340.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.10409375,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.29346875000005,"end":348.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.16221875,"end":349.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.84971875,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.48221875,"end":355.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.99659375000005,"end":357.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.90346875,"end":357.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.00034375,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.96221875000003,"end":359.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.05909375000005,"end":360.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.42596875000004,"end":365.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.67846875000004,"end":366.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.74159375000005,"end":367.58534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.36159375,"end":369.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.80409375000005,"end":372.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.08221875000004,"end":375.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.63471875000005,"end":380.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.17409375,"end":382.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.44409375000004,"end":380.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.36784375,"end":382.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.45221875000004,"end":383.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.12284375,"end":385.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.72596875000005,"end":386.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.43471875,"end":387.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.89034375,"end":387.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.66659375,"end":395.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.12096875000003,"end":397.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.37409375000004,"end":397.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.63534375,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.17909375000005,"end":403.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.67221875,"end":410.54909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.29971875,"end":423.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.13346875,"end":426.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.01909375,"end":429.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.99346875000003,"end":432.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.36409375000005,"end":434.59596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.66784375000003,"end":437.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.12721875000005,"end":438.00471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.86534375,"end":439.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.89471875000004,"end":440.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.73409375000006,"end":450.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.48784375,"end":460.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.17409375000005,"end":462.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.92909375000005,"end":464.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.36346875000004,"end":465.62909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.47284375000004,"end":468.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.65846875000005,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.73846875000004,"end":469.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.25721875000005,"end":469.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.30784375,"end":469.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.55221875,"end":472.07534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.70409375,"end":477.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.23534375,"end":476.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.60596875000005,"end":483.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.55034375,"end":483.80346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.88346875,"end":493.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.28284375000004,"end":497.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.96159375,"end":505.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.60596875000005,"end":508.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.08221875000004,"end":509.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.02721875000003,"end":512.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.55409375,"end":515.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.91659375,"end":521.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.74721875,"end":520.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.28284375,"end":533.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.92221875,"end":538.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.3897187499999,"end":539.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.58784375,"end":542.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.08534375,"end":544.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.04284375,"end":550.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.83096875,"end":558.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.23471875,"end":560.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.7534687500001,"end":561.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.1540937500001,"end":574.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.8103437500001,"end":576.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":576.7678437500001,"end":580.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.66596875,"end":584.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.44596875,"end":585.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.99409375,"end":588.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.4072187500001,"end":591.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.02284375,"end":595.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.7690937500001,"end":599.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.5490937500001,"end":600.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.47721875,"end":602.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.68784375,"end":603.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.7847187500001,"end":604.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.42159375,"end":607.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.0203437499999,"end":610.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.9228437500001,"end":613.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.97721875,"end":616.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":617.48721875,"end":621.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":621.25034375,"end":621.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":622.5834687500001,"end":628.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.84409375,"end":629.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.02534375,"end":632.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.77159375,"end":634.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.61096875,"end":641.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.55096875,"end":645.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":645.5503437500001,"end":648.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":649.6172187500001,"end":665.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.3615937500001,"end":668.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":668.07846875,"end":683.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.0803437500001,"end":687.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.73409375,"end":685.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":688.1428437500001,"end":694.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.6615937500001,"end":690.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":694.1840937500001,"end":696.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":695.97284375,"end":696.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":696.2934687500001,"end":704.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.16596875,"end":702.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.80284375,"end":708.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":705.82784375,"end":705.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":706.4522187500002,"end":707.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":708.2240937500001,"end":708.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":708.9497187500001,"end":720.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.44159375,"end":726.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.60096875,"end":730.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":731.07284375,"end":735.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.4265937499999,"end":739.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.37096875,"end":743.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":743.9822187500001,"end":749.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.4665937500001,"end":753.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.7865937500001,"end":753.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":753.8034687500001,"end":753.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":753.87096875,"end":753.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":753.9722187500001,"end":759.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.5915937500001,"end":765.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.6115937500001,"end":773.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":767.4890937499999,"end":767.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.97846875,"end":768.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":771.85971875,"end":772.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":774.0365937500001,"end":791.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.74284375,"end":795.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":794.53971875,"end":797.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":798.8428437500002,"end":800.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":799.01159375,"end":799.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":800.04096875,"end":803.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.6228437500001,"end":807.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.7947187500001,"end":810.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":810.97596875,"end":811.14471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.913,"end":31.545,"text":"主席我們請副秘書長麻煩副秘書長委員好副秘書長辛苦了今天臨危受命了在這裡大概我不知道你是不是能夠回答所有的問題不過我希望說你盡量能夠如果說你沒有辦法回答了你就請同仁上來協助謝謝這個"},{"start":36.67,"end":46.22,"text":"今天是我們這個有關110年度中央政府總預算案有關立法院的主管收支部分所以我就就預算的部分來跟副秘書長來討論這個我們立法院組織法第32條"},{"start":54.029,"end":66.256,"text":"我們在112年12月18日三讀通過有關公費助理實施健康檢查這個明定入法在112年12月18也明定在114年1月1日開始實施也就是說再過不到一個月"},{"start":78.086,"end":86.779,"text":"我們就要開始實施這個公費助理實施健康檢查的有補助對不對副部長對不對沒錯對啦齁那這個這個目前這個資訊你們有沒有"},{"start":94.124,"end":119.639,"text":"透過各種方式公告收支讓所有的這些黨團以及公費助理大家了解在114年1月1號這不到一個月之後就可以申請健康檢查補助那他的申請的程序如何申請的方式怎麼樣來辦理申請可以申請多少補助等等相關資訊的宣導跟告知你們有做嗎"},{"start":120.955,"end":145.788,"text":"謝謝委員那個公費助理的實施健康檢查補助要點在113年5月9號已經院長已經核定了也就是剛剛委員說的從今年1月1號開始實行那這個要點在113年5月10號已經含送本院全體委員我知道要點通過了啦我意思是說在還不到一個月就要實施了你們用什麼方式來宣導讓這些讓所有立法院的所有的這些公費助理大家知道說"},{"start":148.638,"end":169.508,"text":"從1月開始可以申請健康檢查補助那如何申請?向誰申請?怎麼樣申請?你們有做宣導嗎?我們之前已經有行文過那現在我們可以再次行文來做宣導你們的行文給誰?助理工會?全體委員還有各黨團都知道全體委員好像沒有你們好像行文給助理工會有的那個署長來"},{"start":171.474,"end":198.504,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個是行文給那個全體委員的辦公室跟黨團辦公室這個已經行文過什麼時候行文的在那個健康檢查是今年的5月不是我說什麼時候行文我不是說那個要點通過也是5月10號就要點通過的時候你們就行文給對對對對對沒有錯那我們預計在明年度開始實施之前我們會再度行文就是現在啊明年度開始實施就不到一個月啦是我們會再度行文給委員"},{"start":199.604,"end":204.209,"text":"就不到一個月了今天已經12月4號了我們會盡快來請問你們這個實施要點裡面的第二點裡面的第三項你們寫到說補助的人數你們有補助對象補助金額補助次數補助人數"},{"start":223.926,"end":233.735,"text":"補助人數你們這裡說每年以各委員及黨團得聘用工會助理法定員而上限之半數為補助上限為什麼為什麼設定半數"},{"start":236.176,"end":257.611,"text":"只有一半的助理可以申請為什麼這個是比照公務人員因為當初這個訂法是比照公務人員的健康檢查來實施辦理那也就是說如果說每兩年一次因為公務人員的那個健檢的部分每兩年一次每兩年一次但是你們這裡你們有要點你們有規定說兩年才能申請一次嗎"},{"start":258.211,"end":276.668,"text":"沒有沒有是我們的經費編列就會用半數就像我們職工你們沒有規定說兩年檢查兩年才可以申請一次補助理論上是每年都可以申請補助對不對對但是我們的經費的編就不會用足額的那個時事因為是兩年一次所以不是你們兩年一次的依據在哪裡嗎"},{"start":278.03,"end":291.827,"text":"這個是那個參照公務人員的健檢的方式我們現在也是兩年一次辦理一次健檢就是那個 兩年一次但是沒有規定兩年一次那一個人可不可以兩年都申請 不行不行 不行的規定在哪裡"},{"start":294.057,"end":315.532,"text":"這是那個公教員工的他那個有相關的規定我把規定拿出來我就是要看這個規定因為我覺得很納悶阿是我們會後再送給委員把這個規定拿出來編列半數你們也沒有規定說兩年這個公費助理兩年才可以申請補助一次但是你們卻只編列了半數"},{"start":317.438,"end":340.055,"text":"我們會後把這個規定來送給委員但是我接著看你們的預算因為這個是明年度才新增的嘛新增的結果你們把這個預算這個有關這個健康檢查的預算你們跟這個員工的調整待遇的預算放在一起在同一個向下對不對"},{"start":343.414,"end":362.726,"text":"我們是放在公費助理的那個科目向下你們放在一般行政一般行政的一般事務費裡面沒有我們是放在公費助理的那個不是這個是員工協助方案你們放在這個這個公費助理向下的這個你們的這一筆經費公費助理經費這個是多少8200欸不是"},{"start":374.161,"end":394.666,"text":"公費助理經費是8億2823萬1000是含薪資?對啊所以如果是健康檢查的補助經費上年度增列你們是把他跟整個待遇調整跟健康檢查經費放在同一個向下嘛對不對"},{"start":396.178,"end":401.182,"text":"我們是把那個預算書是由那個主計處這邊來編列的預算書的部分我們是不是請那個主計處來解釋好不好委員"},{"start":413.505,"end":434.59,"text":"委員好 有關那個公費助理他的健康檢查經費我們是編在預算書的公費助理工作計畫上下的業務費裡面有編了十萬八千元是有關委員助理的那個健康檢查經費你們是把他跟調整 調整待遇沒有沒有沒有這個是業務費調整待遇是人事費人事人事費在我們預算書預算書上面的64頁64頁好那這個"},{"start":442.012,"end":469.361,"text":"這個部分齁你們另外有這個員工協助方案的部分啦齁EAP的部分適用對象我看你們在預算處裡面放在這個這個一般行政向下的一般事務費齁有主管人員40歲以上職工的健康檢查駕駛身心健康保護措施及員工協助方案等這放在一起對不對所以員工協助方案公衛助理可以使用嗎為什麼這上面沒有提到公衛助理啊可以使用啊"},{"start":471.762,"end":493.31,"text":"司法對象有立法委員公費助理職員約聘僱人員主管人員40歲以上職工御用人員跟技工工友及駕駛都制這個是今年新增編列的過去沒有獨立編列對不對這今年新增編列的嘛這部分齁你們在這個這個我看你們現在的網站齁有關這個EAP的部分齁你們只有放一個放一支電話而已啦"},{"start":494.335,"end":515.035,"text":"放一支預約諮詢電話就這樣子沒有其他的員工這個這個員工協助方案的相關的的資訊在網路上網站上面全部沒有現在這個霸凌的問題這個這個大家這麼關注但是結果我們自己立法院在這個員工協助方案只放了一支電話這個部分回去改善好不好副部長"},{"start":516.213,"end":544.012,"text":"謝委員這個剛剛其他委員也有關注到這個問題基本上我們會多加選接著我這個時間我要跟你確認一下因為我們這個在去年的9月立法院新成立國際事務處來慢慢來我們新成立這個國際事務處對不對去年9月成立了是立法院的國際事務處對不對那我就是去年9月"},{"start":545.103,"end":545.303,"text":"議員：沈發惠"},{"start":566.687,"end":585.035,"text":"對,只有今年獨立處在編列齁,你們在國際事務處的預算大概把它區分成兩個部分一個部分是一般行政,另外一個部分是國會交流的事務對不對,這分成這兩個部分一般行政的部分齁,你們過去編在這個這個跟秘書處齁一起,編在公共關係等秘書業務經費裡面編了一千萬"},{"start":589.471,"end":596.237,"text":"今年成立國際事務處之後就增加到這個1191萬增加了大概191萬左右這個是一般行政費用但是你們在這個"},{"start":614.649,"end":627.24,"text":"這個國會交流事務上面齁你們今年的從去年的預算齁去年邊在秘書跟秘書處混編的欸去年欸邊在國際事務處的這個國會交流事務經費齁去年是4160萬今年增加到6759萬對不對"},{"start":635.763,"end":646.432,"text":"為什麼增加這麼多?增加兩千五百萬,將近兩千六百萬兩千五百九十九萬的國際交流事務經費為什麼增加這麼多?我們是不是請國際處林處長回答一下"},{"start":649.582,"end":650.343,"text":"不是不是不是 我說為什麼增加"},{"start":668.403,"end":687.485,"text":"為什麼增加三大項一個是呃國會國際論壇就是明年我們是台灣呃立法院是這個appu亞太國會議員聯誼會的主辦國所以我們編了一千萬這是一個大型的國際會會大概有呃上近百個那個國會議員到台灣這個部分增加一千萬嗎是但是我們總共增加是兩千六百萬捏"},{"start":688.046,"end":689.788,"text":"所以還有1600萬是增加在哪裡?接待部分增加1600萬喔?為什麼?為什麼增加這麼多?"},{"start":709.685,"end":727.197,"text":"跟委員報告我們到今年的11月30號時我們已經有立法院已經接待55國175團1984人次也就是說今年你們認為說過去這麼多年來編列的預算不夠所以今年在明年度的預算增加了1500萬就扣掉剛剛講的1000萬"},{"start":731.425,"end":732.807,"text":"韓院長上任之後比以前在接待外賓增加了將近1000萬的經費"},{"start":744.042,"end":763.998,"text":"那我們去年是164團那我們今年已經已經到11月底175團人數你剛剛講的辦理國際論壇有沒有提供業務計畫給立法院呃這一部分要等待那個外交部跟日方那個秘書處那邊給我們相關資料我們會呈報呈報你們編列了一千萬的你說編列一千萬的預算結果在預算審查的時候連個業務計畫都沒有"},{"start":766.653,"end":785.947,"text":"是不是?你們連業務計畫都沒有提供就要一千萬報告委員我們是參照去年我跟你講我時間到了啦你這個編列新增這個過去沒有的項目你新增辦理這個論壇你增加了一千萬的預算你就應該要有業務啊就應該要有業務報告啊你說這個業務報告要等外交部"},{"start":787.107,"end":787.427,"text":"謝謝 那我們下一位"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":557,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時11分）主席，我們請副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：副秘書長辛苦了，今天臨危受命，在這裡我不知道你是不是能夠回答所有的問題，不過我希望能夠儘量回答，如果你沒有辦法回答，就請同仁上來協助。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：今天是討論有關114年度中央政府總預算案有關立法院主管收支部分，所以我就預算的部分來跟副秘書長討論，我們立法院組織法第三十二條在112年12月18日三讀通過有關公費助理實施健康檢查，明定入法，也就是在112年12月18日將其明定入法；也明定在114年1月1日開始實施，也就是說，再過不到一個月我們就要開始實施公費助理健康檢查補助，副秘書長，對不對？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒錯。"],["沈委員發惠：目前這個資訊你們有沒有透過各種方式公告周知，讓所有的黨團以及公費助理了解，在114年1月1號，也就是不到一個月之後，就可以申請健康檢查補助，包括它申請的程序如何、怎麼樣辦理申請、可以申請多少補助等等相關資訊的宣導跟告知，你們有做嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員，公費助理實施健康檢查補助要點113年5月9號院長已經核定了，也就是剛剛委員說的，從今年1月1號開始施行，這個要點在113年5月10號已經函送本院全體委員還有各黨團……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道要點通過了，我的意思是說，還不到一個月就要實施了，你們用什麼方式來宣導，讓立法院所有的公費助理大家知道，從1月開始可以申請健康檢查補助，包括如何申請、向誰申請等等，這個你們有做宣導嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們之前已經有行文過，現在我們會再次行文來做宣導。"],["沈委員發惠：你們行文給誰？助理公會？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：全體委員還有各黨團都知道。"],["沈委員發惠：全體委員的部分好像沒有，你們好像是行文給助理公會。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有，我請處長來說明。"],["黃處長瑞月：跟委員報告，我們有行文給全體委員辦公室跟黨團辦公室，這個已經行文過了。"],["沈委員發惠：什麼時候行文的？"],["黃處長瑞月：健康檢查是今年5月……"],["沈委員發惠：不是！我是問什麼時候行文，不是問要點通過的時間。"],["黃處長瑞月：也是5月10日……"],["沈委員發惠：要點通過之後你們就行文？"],["黃處長瑞月：對、對，沒有錯。我們預計在明年度開始實施之前，我們會再……"],["沈委員發惠：就是現在！明年度開始實施剩不到一個月！"],["黃處長瑞月：我們會再度行文給委員。"],["沈委員發惠：剩不到一個月，今天已經12月4日了。"],["黃處長瑞月：我們會儘快行文。"],["沈委員發惠：不好意思，這個實施要點的第二點第三項提到補助對象、補助金額、補助次數及補助人數，其中，你們在補助人數裡說，每年以各委員及黨團得聘用公費助理法定員額上限之半數為補助上限。為什麼？為什麼設定半數，只有一半的助理可以申請？為什麼？"],["黃處長瑞月：這是比照公務人員，當初的訂法是比照公務人員健康檢查來實施辦理……"],["沈委員發惠：也就是說如果……"],["黃處長瑞月：每兩年一次，因為公務人員健檢每兩年一次……"],["沈委員發惠：每兩年一次？"],["黃處長瑞月：對。"],["沈委員發惠：但要點裡有規定兩年才能申請一次嗎？"],["黃處長瑞月：沒有，但我們的經費編列就會用半數，就像我們職工……"],["沈委員發惠：既然你們沒有規定兩年才可以申請一次補助，所以理論上是每年都可以申請補助，對不對？"],["黃處長瑞月：對，但在經費編列上就不會足額……"],["沈委員發惠：為什麼？"],["黃處長瑞月：因為兩年一次……"],["沈委員發惠：不是！你們兩年一次的依據在哪裡？"],["黃處長瑞月：這是參照公務人員的健檢方式，我們現在也是兩年辦理一次健檢。"],["沈委員發惠：雖然是兩年一次，但一個人可不可以兩年都申請？"],["黃處長瑞月：不行、不行，我們是規定……"],["沈委員發惠：不行的規定在哪裡？"],["黃處長瑞月：公教員工有相關規定……"],["沈委員發惠：把規定拿出來！"],["黃處長瑞月：我們會後是不是……"],["沈委員發惠：我就是要看規定，因為我覺得很納悶。"],["黃處長瑞月：是，我們會後再送給委員。"],["沈委員發惠：把規定拿出來！"],["黃處長瑞月：是，沒問題。"],["沈委員發惠：編列半數，但你們也沒有規定公費助理兩年才可以申請補助一次，你們卻只編列了半數。"],["黃處長瑞月：我們會後把規定送給委員。"],["沈委員發惠：我接著要看你們的預算。這是明年度新增的，結果你們把有關健康檢查的預算跟員工調整待遇的預算放在一起，在同一個項下，對不對？"],["黃處長瑞月：健檢部分嗎？我們放在公費助理的科目項下。"],["沈委員發惠：你們放在一般行政的一般事務費裡……"],["黃處長瑞月：沒有，我們放在公費助理的……"],["沈委員發惠：這是員工協助方案。對，你們放在公費助理項下，這筆公費助理經費是8億2,823萬1,000元，對不對？"],["黃處長瑞月：含薪資。"],["沈委員發惠：對……"],["黃處長瑞月：如果是健康檢查的補助經費……"],["沈委員發惠：但上年度經費部分，你們是把待遇調整跟健康檢查經費放在同一個項下，對不對？混在一起嘛？"],["黃處長瑞月：預算書是由主計處編列的……"],["沈委員發惠：副秘書長能不能回答一下？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：預算書的部分？是不是請主計處來解釋，好不好？"],["許處長靜江：委員好。有關公費助理的健康檢查經費，我們編在預算書公費助理工作計畫項下的業務費裡。"],["沈委員發惠：你們是不是跟調整待遇……"],["許處長靜江：沒有，這是業務費，調整待遇是人事費。"],["沈委員發惠：人事費？"],["許處長靜江：在預算書的第64頁。"],["沈委員發惠：好。你們另外有員工協助方案，即EAP的部分，適用對象我看是放在預算書的一般行政項下一般事務費，有主管人員、40歲以上職工健康檢查、駕駛身心健康保護措施及員工協助方案等，這是放在一起，對不對？所以員工協助方案公費助理可以使用嗎？為什麼這上面沒有提到公費助理可以使用？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：可以使用。"],["黃處長瑞月：適用的對象含公費助理。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：適用的對象有立法委員、公費助理、職員、約聘僱人員……"],["沈委員發惠：主管人員、40歲以上職工……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：約用人員、技工、工友及駕駛都是。"],["沈委員發惠：這是今年新增編列的，過去沒有獨立編列，對不對？這是今年新增編列的？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["沈委員發惠：我看到你們在網站上有提到EAP，可是只放一支預約諮詢電話而已，網路上沒有其他員工協助方案的相關資訊，網站上全部沒有。現在大家這麼關注霸凌問題，結果立法院自己在員工協助方案上竟然只放了一支電話，這部分回去改善，好不好，副秘書長？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員。剛剛其他委員也有關注到這個問題，基本上我們會多宣導。"],["沈委員發惠：接著我要跟你確認一下時間。在去年9月，立法院新成立了國際事務處，對不對？去年9月成立了立法院國際事務處，對不對？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["沈委員發惠：既然是去年9月成立的，所以理論上今年的預算就必須呈現。但可能是因為9月掛牌，使你們來不及呈現預算，因此去年跟秘書處混在一起編，對不對？把秘書處、國際事務處兩個主管機關的費用都放在同一個項目裡，今年才把國際事務處獨立出來編列，對不對？今年你們把國際事務處的預算區分成兩個部分，一個是一般行政，另外一個是國會交流事務，對不對？就分成這兩部分？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒錯。"],["沈委員發惠：在一般行政部分，過去是跟秘書處一起編在公共關係等秘書業務經費1,000萬，今年成立國際事務處之後為1,191萬，將近1,200萬，大概增加一百九十一萬左右，這是一般行政費用。但在國會交流事務上，去年是和秘書處混編在國際交流事務經費，為4,160萬，今年增加到6,759萬，對不對？為什麼增加這麼多？增加了將近兩千六百萬、2,599萬的國際交流事務經費，為什麼增加這麼多？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是不是請國際處林處長回答？"],["林處長晨富：跟委員報告，有關國會交流事務經費，下年度（114年）增編的部分有三大塊：第一大塊就是今年3月由副院長率跨黨派立委到日本參加亞太國會議員聯誼會，這個活動我們爭取到……"],["沈委員發惠：不是，我是問為什麼增加？為什麼增加？"],["林處長晨富：分成三大項，一個是國際論壇，明年我們臺灣立法院是APPU亞太國會議員聯誼會的主辦國，所以我們編了1,000萬。這是一個大型的國際會議，大概有近百個國會議員到臺灣來。"],["沈委員發惠：這部分增加1,000萬？"],["林處長晨富：是、是。"],["沈委員發惠：但你們總共增加近2,600萬？"],["林處長晨富：另外一部分是有關……"],["沈委員發惠：還有1,600萬增加在哪裡？"],["林處長晨富：到立法院參訪外賓的接待部分。因為……"],["沈委員發惠：接待部分增加1,600萬？"],["林處長晨富：沒有。接待部分是增加999萬，包括院裡面的……"],["沈委員發惠：為什麼？"],["林處長晨富：款宴餐費、酒水、禮品，還有……"],["沈委員發惠：為什麼？為什麼？為什麼？為什麼增加這麼多？"],["林處長晨富：跟委員報告，到今年11月30日止，立法院已經接待55國、175團、1,984人次……"],["沈委員發惠：也就是說，你們認為過去這麼多年來編列的預算不夠，所以在明年度預算增加了1,500萬？先扣掉剛剛講的1,000萬？"],["林處長晨富：999萬，有關接待外賓到立法院訪問的部分。"],["沈委員發惠：再增加999萬？"],["林處長晨富：現在世界各……"],["沈委員發惠：韓院長上任之後，在接待外賓這部分增加了將近1,000萬的經費？"],["林處長晨富：去年是164團，今年到11月底已經有175團，人數……"],["沈委員發惠：你剛剛說要辦理國際論壇，有沒有提供業務計畫給立法院？"],["林處長晨富：等外交部跟日方秘書處給我們相關資料後，我們會呈報。"],["沈委員發惠：你們編列了1,000萬的預算，結果在預算審查時連業務計畫都沒有，是不是？你們連業務計畫都沒有提供就要1,000萬？"],["林處長晨富：報告委員，我們是參照去年……"],["沈委員發惠：我時間到了啦！你編列新增過去沒有的項目，你新增辦理這個論壇，你增加了1,000萬的預算，你就應該要有業務報告啊！你說這個業務報告要等外交部相關的經費，但是你們怎麼算這1,000萬，你還是要有業務計畫啊！"],["林處長晨富：我們是依據去年本院辦理國際宗教自由……"],["沈委員發惠：在哪裡？在預算書看得到嗎？在本委員會看得到嗎？預算審查過程中，你們有提出來嗎？"],["林處長晨富：我們事後再提供委員辦公室詳細的……"],["沈委員發惠：什麼事後？在預算審查的時候，你們就要提出來了啦！好不好？"],["林處長晨富：是。"],["主席：謝謝。我們下一位請林月琴委員、林月琴委員、林月琴委員不在。","那再請鄭天財委員發言。我先宣告一下，在羅智強委員發言完畢之後，我們休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157757","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157757","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360caf95a596e6684da4a6acd55cc740f50f169037e582a3206df663d1e515b30ea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"10:15:50 - 10:25:02","影片長度":"00:09:12","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:15:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:25:02+08:00","duration":552,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7478437500000004,"end":3.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.37221875,"end":4.8572187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.90784375,"end":4.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.92471875,"end":5.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.228468750000001,"end":11.067218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.93659375,"end":10.965968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.57346875,"end":17.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.762218750000002,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.47471875,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.39409375,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.106593750000002,"end":30.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.74784375,"end":30.827843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.86159375,"end":40.784093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.439093750000005,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.969718750000006,"end":43.517843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.63596875,"end":46.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.48784375,"end":46.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.90534375,"end":48.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.23846875,"end":50.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.85846875,"end":51.617843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.892218750000005,"end":51.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.617843750000006,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.174718750000004,"end":55.634093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.70159375,"end":57.540968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.743468750000005,"end":61.742843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.81034375,"end":64.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.93221875,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.02409375,"end":71.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.05784375,"end":72.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.20971875000001,"end":71.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.07034375,"end":72.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.49221875,"end":74.78721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.63534375,"end":83.86596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.16971875,"end":86.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.73471875,"end":90.16034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.49784375,"end":93.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.70409375000001,"end":96.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.61534375000001,"end":95.18909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.40409375,"end":96.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.96096875,"end":98.41221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.31096875,"end":100.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.39909375,"end":106.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.71471875,"end":114.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.32534375,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.13534375,"end":118.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.72971875,"end":121.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.54784375000001,"end":123.65721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.16346875,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.31909375000001,"end":128.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.36534375,"end":130.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.74471875,"end":132.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.31409375,"end":133.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.76534375,"end":149.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.41284375,"end":153.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.96471875,"end":165.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.06409375,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.65346875,"end":177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.55159375000002,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.57659375,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.20909375000002,"end":189.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.63409375,"end":192.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.26659375,"end":194.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.27909375000002,"end":194.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.08909375000002,"end":196.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.09721875000002,"end":198.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.71284375000002,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.53971875000002,"end":201.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.34971875000002,"end":213.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.58409375000002,"end":223.21971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.92971875,"end":216.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.69221875000002,"end":224.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.70471875,"end":225.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.42596875,"end":227.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.55659375000002,"end":243.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.14471875,"end":246.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.82346875000002,"end":248.16096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.05534375000002,"end":252.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.19846875000002,"end":252.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.30784375000002,"end":259.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.05409375,"end":257.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.92284375,"end":267.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.57971875000004,"end":270.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.87471875,"end":272.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.25846875,"end":274.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.30034375,"end":276.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.83159375,"end":278.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.97471875,"end":284.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.42534375,"end":286.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.68659375000004,"end":287.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.23909375,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.48346875000004,"end":290.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.63096875,"end":294.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.46596875,"end":296.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.98034375000003,"end":303.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.49409375000005,"end":305.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.35034375000004,"end":308.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.84346875,"end":309.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.92346875000004,"end":311.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.42534375,"end":313.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.49659375000005,"end":315.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.57221875000005,"end":319.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.04846875000004,"end":320.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.92596875000004,"end":322.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.46159375,"end":328.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.39284375,"end":331.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.21971875,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.97909375,"end":333.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.29534375000003,"end":333.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.88596875,"end":336.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.85159375,"end":341.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.88471875000005,"end":352.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.25846875,"end":356.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.11471875,"end":355.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.08909375,"end":360.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.46409375,"end":361.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.20221875000004,"end":364.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.79221875,"end":367.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.93971875,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.34034375000005,"end":371.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.78721875,"end":372.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.17096875000004,"end":373.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.82909375,"end":374.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.31409375000004,"end":375.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.20846875,"end":376.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.38971875000004,"end":378.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.16159375,"end":380.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.24159375000005,"end":380.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.23721875,"end":381.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.99659375000005,"end":383.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.68409375000005,"end":413.92409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.24471875,"end":422.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.48409375,"end":426.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.14159375,"end":426.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.20909375,"end":426.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.47909375,"end":426.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.63096875,"end":431.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.01846875,"end":431.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.54159375,"end":432.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.22909375,"end":443.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.31221875000006,"end":441.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.05034375,"end":454.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.67721875,"end":479.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.72034375000004,"end":477.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.70721875000004,"end":481.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.57596875,"end":481.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.86284375,"end":483.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.09034375000005,"end":496.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.92534375,"end":487.33034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.38409375000003,"end":494.85659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.93221875,"end":497.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.01659375,"end":497.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.10096875000005,"end":500.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.75034375,"end":503.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.86784375,"end":506.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.91846875000005,"end":505.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.52159375,"end":508.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.13721875000005,"end":508.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.03159375,"end":510.34784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.92159375000006,"end":532.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.26846875,"end":532.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.7747187500001,"end":535.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.91784375,"end":537.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.3015937499999,"end":543.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.2422187500001,"end":538.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.41034375,"end":544.7390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.7509687500001,"end":549.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.7678437500001,"end":549.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.86909375,"end":549.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.08846875,"end":552.61971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.739,"end":8.663,"text":"王維豪主委老闆主委在這裡我先幫你探討一下稍後解說一下因為我們中美人要來到台灣要站我們的新聞場他要站他本身在台灣的新聞場他需要辦什麼來"},{"start":26.064,"end":27.765,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":49.298,"end":51.059,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":71.031,"end":75.574,"text":"對、對、對,這樣就要說清楚了。在這裡本身來說,因為有的人很認真、很努力,也有時候因為他們自己的不公平,有時候可以做我們政府單位的公職人員,他需要放棄他的國籍嗎?總配喔!總配喔!來,你解釋一下。謝謝委員,給我們這個機會。"},{"start":101.428,"end":104.549,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":130.759,"end":134.262,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":158.122,"end":160.164,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":178.595,"end":179.496,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":199.701,"end":202.183,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":213.632,"end":217.955,"text":"因為我認為這是一個問題,有的一年說實在,如果你要買地、木、鉤,如果要買一個國家的木或鉤,一年算很久了。所以我們要最重要的注意,我是在這裡補充說,我們要聽到清楚,不要斷章取義說,總配要來台灣買財新聞席,就一定要放棄。"},{"start":241.753,"end":245.776,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":270.934,"end":271.434,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":291.667,"end":293.669,"text":"大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":308.9,"end":312.863,"text":"尤其在台灣,我們看到我們的棒球在那裡贏出全世界第一名的時候,那天我相信沒分什麼動的,都為了中華民國台灣加油了。"},{"start":330.561,"end":351.593,"text":"在這,主委,我請教你,他說中國、台北,你聽起來,你的感受是怎樣,你回答一下。我想陸團來對外發表這個說法是非常不當的,那我們也會依"},{"start":353.494,"end":379.772,"text":"大陸人士來台的許可辦法。還有這個馬英九基金會給主管機關的相關書面申請切結的問題其中有一項非常清楚就是說不去對外說這個跟活動無關的政治的言論與宣傳那這個是不是違反了這個切結的這個標準"},{"start":382.074,"end":394.859,"text":"我們也會跟所有的主管機關依照行政程序大家來討論來確認這個資訊我們也會做必要的行政作為跟行政處分所以委員這個事情我們也跟相關的邀請單位說明這個對台灣來說是絕大部分的國人沒辦法接受的"},{"start":409.045,"end":409.866,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":431.641,"end":435.802,"text":"因為我覺得他來的時候要尊重你來到什麼地方,他說中國、台北的時候也不好,這是一個禮貌。還有我認為他是正經做過台灣的中華民國的總統的時候的基金會,非常不應該是這樣。"},{"start":455.106,"end":460.028,"text":"包括基金會的人也必須要遵當你要執行這個專業交流你也要符合你所簽署的書面聲明之外還要符合入客來台的許可辦法這是規範你的所以你對外進行一些非必要的跟活動無關的政治宣傳是不宜的"},{"start":482.155,"end":483.696,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":510.974,"end":513.255,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":540.221,"end":543.003,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2203,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（10時15分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：王委員好。"],["王委員美惠：主委早安。"],["邱主任委員垂正：早安。"],["王委員美惠：主委，本席跟主委探討剛剛沒有說明清楚的問題。如果中配想要在臺灣拿到屬於他的身分證的話，需要辦理哪些程序？簡單說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，有關陸配取得身分，必須住滿一段時間取得在我們這邊定居的身分，然後他要回中國大陸去放棄他的戶籍再回來，這才是完整的程序。"],["王委員美惠：拿到身分後，回去他們國家辦理戶籍……"],["邱主任委員垂正：放棄。"],["王委員美惠：放棄？就是除戶、放棄？"],["邱主任委員垂正：然後把除戶證明拿回來臺灣。"],["王委員美惠：如果只有除戶的話，並沒有讓他們放棄國籍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，因為兩岸條例沒有處理國籍，還有領土、主權等問題，這不是兩岸條例處理的範圍。"],["王委員美惠：對，所以要講清楚。本席要說的是，有人很認真、很努力，有時候也會加入不同政黨。但如果想成為政府單位的公職人員的話，是否需要放棄國籍？我問的是中配，中配！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員美惠：你解釋一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：感謝委員給我們機會說明。依照兩岸條例第二十一條規定，必須要住滿且取得身分十年之後才能登記參選，或擔任公務人員，這是時間的條件。但當選之後，還是要依照國籍法第二十條規定，放棄非中華民國以外的國籍，只能單一國籍。我想國籍法應該要由主管機關內政部來說明，不過邏輯與本質的問題，就是不要讓效忠與忠誠義務發生衝突，只能效忠中華民國，不能效忠其他國家！"],["王委員美惠：本席為什麼會這樣問？因為這麼久以來，我們都希望公職人員能對國家效忠盡心……"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員美惠：嘉義的蔡公投、蔡同榮博士、蔡委員，他取得美國終身教授職位，卻為了回臺灣擔任立法委員，他放棄了在美國的終身職！"],["邱主任委員垂正：他放棄了。"],["王委員美惠：我們規定如果中配要擔任公職人員，那麼在任職一年內必須放棄……"],["邱主任委員垂正：是、是。"],["王委員美惠：但如果一年後還沒有放棄的話怎麼辦？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果沒有放棄原國籍的話，那麼任何人都一樣，就失去當選的公職資格，這點在國籍法有很清楚的規定。"],["王委員美惠：我覺得這是一個問題。老實說，如果要亂搞，甚至想把國家搞亂的話，一年綽綽有餘了，所以你們必須非常小心。我要說的是，要聽清楚，不要斷章取義，覺得中配要來臺灣拿到身分證後，就代表他們一定要放棄國籍，不是這樣的！而是擔任中華民國的公職人員才要放棄國籍。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，委員說得很正確。"],["王委員美惠：在這裡本席要跟你探討，這幾天我是怎麼想都想不通，當過中華民國總統的馬英九前總統，他的基金會最近邀請中國的學生來我們臺灣交流，在交流當中，我覺得我們臺灣是一個民主自由的國家，希望學生們多交流，你們有你們國家的事情，而我們中華民國有可以讓人學習的事情，不過我看起來，他們申請來臺灣參加學校交流的時候都是在吃中華民國、臺灣的豆腐，尤其在臺灣，我們看到我們的棒球贏得全世界第一名的時候，那天我相信不分什麼黨都會為中華民國、臺灣加油。主委，我請教你，他說中國臺北，你聽起來你的感受是怎麼樣？來，你回答一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想陸團對外發表這個說法是非常不當的，我們也會依大陸人士來臺的許可辦法，還有馬英九基金會給主管機關的相關書面申請切結的問題，其中有一項非常清楚，就是不去對外說跟活動無關的政治的言論與宣傳，這個是不是違反了切結的標準，我們也會跟所有的主管機關，依照行政程序，大家來討論、來確認這個資訊，我們也會做必要的行政作為跟行政處分。所以委員，這個事情我們也跟相關的邀請單位說明，這個對臺灣來說，是絕大部分的國人沒辦法接受的，而且引發不同立場的人的對立，這個絕對是我們邀請陸生來臺所不想看到的事情，因此這個事情我想相關的主管機關會負起責任。"],["王委員美惠：主委你不想看到這樣的事情，不過現在的環境、社會，說實在的，都覺得我們中華民國太過軟弱了！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是啊。"],["王委員美惠：因為我覺得他來這裡應該要尊重他來到的地方，他說中國臺北，這個也不好，這是一個禮貌。更何況他是曾經當過臺灣、中華民國的總統，他的基金會如此，非常不應該這樣啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，委員，你說得對，包括基金會的人，當你要執行專業交流，你要符合你所簽署的書面聲明之外，還要符合陸客來臺的許可辦法，這是規範你的，所以你對外進行一些非必要的、跟活動無關的政治宣傳是不宜的。"],["王委員美惠：他的想法我也覺得很奇怪耶！他當八年的總統，他應該去發揚在中華民國的自由、民主跟教育是如何的好才對，不是來吃中華民國的豆腐啦！所以我非常地氣憤！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，自我矮化的離譜言論，我想絕大部分的國人都不認同。"],["王委員美惠：主委，我質詢的時間到了，不過我希望你們對這件事要趕快處理好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員美惠：因為這些學生明天就要離開了，這件事情結束之後，我相信申請來的人會更多，你如果沒有一個作為，說實在中華民國會亂糟糟啦！所以主委，這是你的責任，你知道嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，這是我職責所在，一定做好。"],["王委員美惠：所以你要趕快啦，不是嘴巴在說，不是說得嚇死人、做得笑死人啦！好不好？以上。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，感謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員。","接下來請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157755","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157755","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360a8439717d0b4fc52b1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a3206f03749d7e409c8a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"10:13:01 - 10:22:49","影片長度":"00:09:48","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:13:01+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:22:49+08:00","duration":588,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.96221875,"end":13.851593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.340968750000002,"end":15.488468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.14221875,"end":17.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.37409375,"end":19.184093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":68.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.25221875,"end":81.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.09409375,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.71721875,"end":100.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.40784375000001,"end":100.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.36971875,"end":103.47471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.77034375000001,"end":118.81409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.30346875000001,"end":120.90659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.12596875000001,"end":125.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.69909375,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.75346875,"end":130.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.23409375,"end":207.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.88034375,"end":259.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.98596875000004,"end":269.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.70159375000003,"end":272.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.49034375,"end":309.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.45096875,"end":417.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.49721875,"end":434.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":434.71409375,"end":458.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.30096875000004,"end":459.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.09409375,"end":465.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.46471875000003,"end":505.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.11784375,"end":497.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.69096875,"end":502.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.43284375,"end":509.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.16659375000006,"end":549.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.2109687500001,"end":549.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.5990937500001,"end":549.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.86909375,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.69596875,"end":550.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.96596875,"end":568.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.08971875,"end":569.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.96721875,"end":571.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.55721875,"end":578.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.67784375,"end":585.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.69471875,"end":587.0615937499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.484,"end":34.897,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們的院團人還有我們故宮的同仁,大家早安,大家好。那我們就請蕭院長。好,有請蕭院長。好,院長早。好,院長早。據本席的了解,您的立場一直認為兩岸文化的交流對於兩岸民眾的相互理解是相對正面的。所以故宮在推動兩岸交流上,是不是應該更積極一點?"},{"start":36.719,"end":50.26,"text":"前年北京故宮王旭東院長提到梁漢故宮是親兄弟北京故宮跟故宮本院從來沒有任何障礙"},{"start":51.502,"end":68.202,"text":"所以從他們的回應來講他們應該是相當有意願在文化交流上重啟一些可能性所以您本身應該對這個部分也是蠻正面的所以目前有沒有研議這個一個時程那最快有沒有再拿一些可能性呢?"},{"start":69.744,"end":89.336,"text":"目前當然沒有一個既定的時程但是事實上透過民間的管道跟我接觸說希望跟故宮有一個合作關係的這個一直都沒有間斷那事實上我們在協助交流跟人員互訪上面的話我們是開放的"},{"start":90.925,"end":118.1,"text":"好的,所以這個部分我相信您應該很正面只是本席這邊希望您再更積極一點那在話語權的部分也可以再更被了解基本上來講的話因為故宮文物出國的話有一個司法免扣押的一個無形的那個智庫在那邊所以要跟兩岸交流的話大陸過來的話基本上來講我們是沒有問題但是大陸"},{"start":119.381,"end":145.116,"text":"故宮的東西、國立故宮博物院的東西要去大陸的話基本上來講的話目前還是要有一個嚴謹的方式來處理好的,那這是這個區塊嘛但是就本席了解您在學術上然後有一些文創商品上也有一些想法所以本席最主要也是提醒那這個部分不要忘記這個故宮的一個歷史"},{"start":146.237,"end":169.446,"text":"我想今天有很多人也很關心故宮100的這個計畫那剛才本席也聽了一下目前的這個進度那我這邊也很關心因為民國14年10月10號的成立在我們的文化藝術上是非常的重要所以故宮在迎接這個未來2025年的故宮100我想很多人會很關心所以從剛才的這個紅委員提到"},{"start":170.286,"end":192.404,"text":"在故宮的整個對外的連接上跟相關部會是不是可以以故宮作為一個主體然後在2025年這樣一個主題上然後可以連結各部會讓大家了解有這樣一個可能性所以這樣竟然在文案還沒有出來我想這個部分可以提供文案上的一些參考那雖然您這邊也有人數的一個預估那250在本院那150在南院的話"},{"start":197.828,"end":217.604,"text":"如果能夠協同其他部會來把這樣一個主題連接起來我想量能上搞不好自然而然的就變得很高所以這是本席的一個提醒那至於這個論述權本席這邊也提醒那114年你們的願慶那你有很多一個很精彩的表演跟願慶的活動"},{"start":218.965,"end":220.087,"text":"主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":235.367,"end":259.974,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":260.998,"end":269.123,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博"},{"start":288.695,"end":309.053,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":309.233,"end":311.635,"text":"不過這邊本席要提醒的就是這個100plus是很重要的一個時間節點可是如果能夠透過這個100plus故宮100年的這樣一個主題讓大家在所有的展示上你們的一些展演上能夠透過這個機會連結"},{"start":325.223,"end":346.788,"text":"讓大家知道他不僅有這樣一個歷史性而且他有一個時間的標記性這個是本席在這邊要特別提醒的那也呼應了剛才那個陳委員所講的你們的話語權跟這個主題大家如何對這個100產生意義這是本席這邊的提醒而且也會在你們的業務內容上未來持續的去追蹤"},{"start":348.388,"end":369.654,"text":"本席就先做這樣一個提醒我想很多委員都有這樣提醒那包括其實我不知道還有沒有時間講但是你們百萬學子的悠遊博物館的計畫也是有委員關心但是你也可以透過這個計畫來把故宮100做一個連結這是本席其實你們在許多計畫上可以朝這樣一個方向讓大家從100"},{"start":371.034,"end":384.268,"text":"這一年展開一個新的里程碑好最後本席先談一下你們許多筆預算這可能你們要跟本席要做一個報告新故宮計畫的這個解凍書面報告跟新故宮公共化帶動觀光產業發展的中程計畫"},{"start":388.012,"end":418.012,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":419.012,"end":434.498,"text":"經貴編列有一點雷同所以這部分本席希望你能夠給本席一個很書面的報告然後告訴本席為什麼編在這樣一些項目下我感覺有一點重複編列博士長您這邊的看法"},{"start":434.798,"end":437.081,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":451.876,"end":480.1,"text":"重複的部分我想這個我們會理清應該是沒有所謂的重複問題而是說去互補去補其所不足或是一個新興的計畫這個部分的話我們會用你們再檢視確認一下好不好那最後一個提醒當然跟故宮那個100有關但是也最重要就是這個百萬悠遊學子據我所知目前的數據就是你們接待偏鄉的學校目前41所我這邊有點焦急"},{"start":480.64,"end":506.237,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":506.539,"end":530.966,"text":"有個概念然後再推進到未來的100年。謝謝委員的提醒百萬油脂由故宮的計畫不管南北院的我想我跟同仁這邊會研議我們完全開放就是說南部可以申請北部北部也可以申請南部完全沒有問題那因為經費的部分故宮的經費有限這個錢其實我們是從社會資源裡面找來的比如說那個什麼"},{"start":532.426,"end":533.367,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":553.946,"end":570.493,"text":"您們還是可以繼續這樣推動,我覺得這個方向很好。但是本席還是提醒,剛才外委員這邊有提醒,相關的計畫可能及早出來,大家也可以在這個學期的時間內去做一些處理。所以這是本席的一個提醒。謝謝院長。好,謝謝委員提醒。好,謝謝林倩琦委員。接下來我們有請陳秀寶委員質詢。"},{"start":586.136,"end":586.318,"text":"謝主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":729,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（10時13分）好，謝謝主席，我們立院同仁，還有故宮的同仁，大家早安，大家好。請蕭院長。"],["主席：好，有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員早。"],["林委員倩綺：院長早。據本席的了解，您的立場一直認為兩岸文化的交流，對於兩岸民眾的相互理解是相對正面的，所以故宮在推動兩岸交流上是不是應該更積極一點？在前年北京故宮的王旭東院長也提到兩岸故宮是親兄弟，北京故宮跟我們的故宮本院從來沒有任何的障礙，所以從他們的回應來講，應該是相當有意願在文化交流上重啟一些可能性，您本身對這個部分應該也是滿正面的，所以目前有沒有研議一個時程？這一塊有沒有哪些可能性？"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前當然沒有一個既定的時程，但是事實上他們透過民間的管道跟我接觸，希望跟故宮有一個合作關係，這個一直都沒有間斷。事實上，在學術交流跟人員互訪上面我們是開放的。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，所以這個部分我相信你應該很正面，只是本席這邊希望您再更積極一點，在話語權的部分也可以更被了解，而且更廣泛。"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，因為故宮文物要出國的話，有一個司法免扣押的無形桎梏在那邊，所以兩岸要交流，大陸過來的話，基本上來講我們是沒有問題，但是國立故宮博物院的東西要去大陸的話，目前還是要有一個嚴謹的方式來處理。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，這是這個區塊，但是就本席了解，您在學術上、一些文創商品上也有一些想法，所以本席最主要也是提醒，這個部分不要忘記故宮的歷史。我想今天也有很多人很關心「故宮100+」的這個計畫，剛才本席也聽了一下目前的進度。我這邊也很關心，因為民國14年10月10號成立的故宮，在我們文化藝術上非常地重要，所以故宮在迎接未來2025年的「故宮100+」，我想很多人會很關心，所以剛才洪委員提到，在故宮整個對外的連接上，相關部會是不是可以以故宮做為一個主體，然後在2025年這樣的一個主題上連結到各部會，讓大家了解有這樣的一個可能性？既然文案還沒有出來，我想這個部分可以提供文案上的一些參考，雖然您這邊也有人數的預估，250在本院，150在南院的話，如果能夠協同其他部會來把這樣的一個主題連結起來，我想量能上搞不好自然而然就會變得很高，這是本席的一個提醒。","至於這個論述權，本席這邊也提醒，114年你們的院慶有很多很精彩的表演跟院慶的活動，我這邊要提醒一下，這個展覽主題跟文物的選件，您剛才也講了一些，展覽的布置，最重要的是在教育的推廣上能夠透過這樣的一個主題跟學校連結，我想應該是很能夠把故宮的這個角色，透過這樣一個機會傳達得更廣，但是在中華文化這樣的一個主題、論述跟話語權上，本席還是要提醒，你們在文案的部分不要忘記這個連結，剛才也有委員提醒，「故宮100+」在主題性上要如何讓大家了解，這個「100+」跟平常的一些展示有什麼差別？本席這邊想要了解一下，縱使文案還沒有出來，院方這邊有沒有什麼樣的想法？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然沒有錯，「故宮100+」是一個很重要的歷史節點，可是我們講「100+」，並不是說明年的那一年會有一個讓大家耳目一新，然後在那之後怎麼樣，其實我們把「故宮100+」當作是一個系列的重新檢視、重新盤點，故宮重新出發的開始，所以「100+」當然沒有錯，其實我們從今年開始就是「100+」，明年是最主要的那一年，但後年的話我們還是會繼續，所以……"],["林委員倩綺：不過這邊本席要提醒的是，這個「100+」是很重要的一個時間節點，可是如果能夠透過這個「100+」、故宮100年這樣的主題，讓大家在所有的展示上、你們的一些展演上，能夠透過這個機會連結，讓大家知道它不僅有這樣一個歷史性，而且它有一個時間的標記性，這個是本席在這邊要特別提醒的。也呼應了剛才陳委員所講的，你們的話語權跟這個主題，大家如何對這個100產生意義，這是本席這邊的提醒，而且也會在你們的業務內容上，未來持續的去追蹤，本席就先做這樣的提醒，我想很多委員都有提醒。","我不知道還有沒有時間講，你們百萬學子悠遊博物館的計畫也是有委員關心，你也可以透過這個計畫來跟「故宮100+」做一個連結，其實你們在許多計畫上可以朝這樣一個方向，讓大家從100的這一年展開一個新的里程碑。","最後，本席先談一下，你們許多筆預算可能要再跟本席來做一個報告，新故宮計畫的解凍書面報告，跟新故宮─故宮公共化帶動觀光產業發展中程計畫，大部分是做硬體，可是你們有一些東西編在這裡面，展覽創新、活動整合、交通串聯、行銷國際，這邊就有六千多萬的經費，跟硬體可能不是很直接的相關；子計畫在整合行銷跟媒宣的部分有一千七百多萬；國際焦點躍昇展也有一百多萬，將近200萬的預算編列，它其實跟你們新南向行銷及媒宣推廣的經費編列有一點雷同。所以這個部分希望你能夠給本席一個書面報告，告訴本席為什麼編在這樣的一些項目下，感覺有一點重複編列，不知道你這邊的看法？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，新故宮計畫基本上來講是一個公共建設計畫，可是它的經資比是可以允許編列經常門的預算，當然這樣的經常門預算跟故宮的本預算有沒有什麼重複的部分，我想這個我們會釐清，應該是沒有所謂的重複問題，而是說去互補、去補其所不足或是一個新興的計畫，這個部分我們會用書面資料來回復。"],["林委員倩綺：對，你們再檢視、確認一下，好不好？","最後一個提醒，當然跟「故宮100+」有關，但是最重要就是百萬學子悠遊，就我所知目前的數據，你們接待偏鄉學校目前41所，我這邊有點焦急，其實光是嘉義地區就有78所偏鄉的學校，全臺更有1,138所，所以本席在這邊呼應剛才萬委員其實也很關心你們對於全國學校的推廣，所以還是一句話，「故宮100+」是一個很重要的主題、話語權，然後藉這個機會的推動，讓大家對故宮從100有個概念，然後再推進到未來的100年。"],["蕭院長宗煌：謝謝委員的提醒，百萬學子遊故宮的計畫，不管南北院，我想我跟同仁會研議，我們完全開放，就是說南部可以申請北部、北部也可以申請南部，完全沒有問題。因為經費的部分，故宮的經費有限，這個錢其實我們是從社會資源裡面找來的，譬如說萬華的龍山寺、中壢的仁海宮，我們是去募錢，然後來辦這個活動，因為我們當然希望說有更大的規模，可是用故宮的預算來講的話，基本上我們就沒有辦法完全支撐那麼多的量。"],["林委員倩綺：好，這個方向我覺得挺好的，你們有這樣一個啟動，還是可以繼續這樣推動，我覺得這個方向很好，但是本席還是提醒，剛才萬委員也有提醒，相關的計畫可能及早出來，大家也可以在這個學期的時間內去做一些處理，這是本席的一個提醒，謝謝院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，謝謝委員提醒。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員。接下來我們有請陳秀寳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157754","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157754","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083605dc465a4d3cc4ad24a6acd55cc740f50f169037e582a32065378fc16f52fc0c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:05:38 - 10:15:41","影片長度":"00:10:03","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:05:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:15:41+08:00","duration":603,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":1.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.49471875,"end":5.8697187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.970968750000001,"end":12.130343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.058468750000003,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.024093750000002,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.984718750000003,"end":26.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.515968750000003,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.75596875,"end":32.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.291593750000004,"end":68.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.45909375000001,"end":68.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.31971875,"end":70.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.77096875000001,"end":75.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.39471875000001,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.54971875000001,"end":82.56659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.56659375000001,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.95346875,"end":91.40909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.73659375000001,"end":102.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.85034375000001,"end":103.00221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.17096875,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.27221875000001,"end":103.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.96409375,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.31846875000001,"end":121.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.40846875000001,"end":140.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.73471875,"end":141.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.46034375000002,"end":145.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.20659375,"end":152.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.94409375,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.80034375,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.81721875000002,"end":155.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.19221875000002,"end":158.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.62221875,"end":161.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.79471875000002,"end":166.33409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.96721875,"end":189.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.46971875,"end":189.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.38096875000002,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.39784375000002,"end":191.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.11909375000002,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.45221875000001,"end":194.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.56159375000001,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.24659375000002,"end":221.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.03846875000002,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.03409375,"end":223.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.75971875000002,"end":223.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.77659375000002,"end":224.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.26596875,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.65784375,"end":256.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.84159375000002,"end":242.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.80096875000004,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.62346875000003,"end":272.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.61284375,"end":273.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.40596875,"end":278.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.79784375,"end":280.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.67909375,"end":285.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.16346875,"end":293.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.98096875000005,"end":293.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.48721875,"end":293.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.52096875,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.34784375000004,"end":294.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.94534375,"end":305.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.17534375,"end":320.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.19971875000005,"end":324.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.25034375,"end":345.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.26721875000004,"end":325.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.31346875,"end":325.43159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.14159375,"end":346.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.33534375000005,"end":397.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.00784375,"end":391.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.61471875,"end":401.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.95971875000004,"end":402.98909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.30534375,"end":407.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.22034375000004,"end":417.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.42221875,"end":416.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.02909375,"end":428.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.75471875000005,"end":418.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.10471875,"end":419.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.73596875000004,"end":442.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.73534375,"end":433.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.84784375000004,"end":442.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.75909375000003,"end":443.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.77596875,"end":444.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.61534375,"end":446.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.61096875000004,"end":448.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.51784375000005,"end":452.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.25971875000005,"end":453.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.31034375,"end":463.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.80721875,"end":461.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.68034375,"end":496.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.02596875,"end":464.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.25346875,"end":494.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.14346875,"end":507.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.72409375,"end":505.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.53409375,"end":519.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.61221875,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.97471875,"end":573.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.04971875,"end":555.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.15096875,"end":555.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.16784375,"end":555.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.18471875,"end":555.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.20159375,"end":555.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.83221875,"end":569.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.2578437500001,"end":580.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.0247187500001,"end":580.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.4465937500001,"end":590.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.4453437500001,"end":589.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.33534375,"end":593.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.60909375,"end":594.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.1653437500001,"end":600.3759687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.03,"end":27.862,"text":"兩位早安我們今天要討論一下這個你們兩位之間的分工跟兩個單位之間現在的這個跑位的狀況我先請教這個羅副董事長日宇從就任到現在你接受過多少場專訪上過多少場節目我基本上原則如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話他們主動邀訪如果我時間可以我就會接你大概上了幾場你有沒有算過"},{"start":29.021,"end":34.145,"text":"我沒有仔細算過,也許這個委員可以提供。我來唸一下。對,是,謝謝。8月22號您上這個陳水扁前總統微笑電台專訪。8月28是中時的專訪。9月24央廣。10月21寶島聯播網。"},{"start":45.293,"end":61.827,"text":"那當然中間還有比較重大的事件比如說10月15你在馬祖拋出所謂的二六共識還要說要送這個對岸和平之路這個梅花路10月24號是電台報導全世界11月4號是一地獨立的專訪11月9號是民視新聞觀測站11月13是這個王時期的其有之禮11月20號是匯流新聞網這個角色"},{"start":70.814,"end":80.18,"text":"在董事長、主委跟你之間好像你的角色是最鮮明的這個是你們三個商量好的這個戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎?"},{"start":83.011,"end":105.545,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們海基會被政府作為唯一有授予公權力委託的執行單位那麼他積極的對外去說明他的業務那我們對於祕書長積極認識我們表示肯定表示肯定 這個就本席的了解啦"},{"start":105.885,"end":121.031,"text":"按照陸委會跟海基會的角色分工按照兩岸人民關係條例陸委會跟海基會的業務基本上是陸委會抓總對海基會行監督跟指導的責任確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候能夠"},{"start":122.512,"end":125.255,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":141.529,"end":142.349,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":161.863,"end":166.286,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":190.404,"end":194.186,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":213.274,"end":216.516,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":242.472,"end":244.715,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":258.755,"end":260.096,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":286.259,"end":288.52,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":307.924,"end":309.346,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":324.286,"end":325.166,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":347.535,"end":373.317,"text":"羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪我感覺到氛圍的改變因為前面的時候其實我感受到民進黨似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意不管是所謂的二六共識啊或者是什麼也好前面都講應該要這個這個衝突的局勢要放緩兩邊之間要多一點溝通但是同時你也在不同的節目上講不同的話比如說你又講說送人家和平之路後來你又講說在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走"},{"start":373.817,"end":402.754,"text":"你講中央大陸裡面有五失人員、投資失敗、生活失意、關心失和、心理失常、精神失常,所以社會很危險。我的意思是說,如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球,這當然是你們分工的其中的戰術考量,但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼?你的目標是什麼?為什麼你有的時候好像要降溫,有的時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興,也要影響交流的話,請你說明一下。學院委員確實看出了關鍵點,我用四個字回答,就是不卑不亢。"},{"start":404.363,"end":406.504,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":429.775,"end":431.777,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":443.843,"end":446.726,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":470.667,"end":496.151,"text":"記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況我們會根據我們的資料然後以上的稱呼都不是我們自創都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料所以不是我們創的所以講出事實對台灣是好的就像我們講最近剛剛有委員局要一貫道問題如果我們一直不證實這件事情會更多國人誤觸避雷所以講出事實是很重要的只是要提醒"},{"start":496.551,"end":516.213,"text":"今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式那當然你就有連續的曝光的機會那也許久而久之啦這個對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口跟委員報告那你的講話就很重要嘛政策主導部分我們每個禮拜四下午的政策由我們梁文傑副主委擔任發言人"},{"start":516.733,"end":518.774,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":542.881,"end":548.904,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":570.235,"end":592.873,"text":"我希望這個部分你們什麼時候可以看到這個良善的大門打開或什麼時候我們可以把和平之路送出去最後一個問題你們有心理有打算嗎有想法嗎我想這個看對岸要不要收啦我們的善意不過委員擔心了我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰這個不用講了我們是海陸一家然後只會給我們國人是海陸大餐謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":598.778,"end":600.029,"text":"接下來請王美惠委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2147,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時5分）謝謝主席，有請邱主委跟羅秘書長。"],["主席：請主委還有副董事長兼秘書長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：牛委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩位早安。我們今天要討論一下你們兩位之間的分工，跟兩個單位之間現在跑位的狀況，我先請教羅副董事長，從就任到現在，你接受過多少場專訪、上過多少場節目？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：基本上，如果有媒體朋友需要了解海基會相關業務的話，他們主動邀訪，如果時間可以，我就會答應……"],["牛委員煦庭：大概上了幾場你有沒有算過？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我沒有仔細算過，也許委員可以提供……"],["牛委員煦庭：我來唸一下……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：是，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：8月22號您上了陳水扁前總統微笑電臺專訪；8月28號是中時的專訪；9月24號是在央廣；10月21號是寶島聯播網，當然中間還有一些比較重大的事件，比如說10月15號你在馬祖拋出了所謂二六共識，還說要送對岸「和平之鹿」，也就是梅花鹿；10月24號是在寶島全世界電臺；11月4號是ETtoday的專訪；11月9號是民視新聞觀測站；11月13號是王時齊的齊有此理；11月20號是匯流新聞網。在角色上，董事長、主委跟你之間，好像你的角色是最鮮明的，這是你們三個商量好的戰術跟跑位的一個方式嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們海基會被政府作為唯一授予公權力委託執行的單位，它積極對外說明它的業務，所以對於秘書長積極任事，我們表示肯定。"],["牛委員煦庭：表示肯定，好。就本席的了解，關於陸委會跟海基會的角色分工，按照兩岸人民關係條例，陸委會跟海基會的業務，基本上陸委會是抓總的部分，對海基會行監督跟指導的責任，確保海基會執行政策和政府委託業務的時候，能夠符合政策方向跟法律規範。傳統的認知上，為什麼要成立海基會，就是因為海基會是民間單位，當初為了交流方便，所以要善用民間單位的靈活性來做處理，但是兩岸的政策跟官方的立場，應該還是由陸委會來抓總，這樣才對嘛！可是看起來，現在好像有一點點喧賓奪主的味道，主委不會這樣覺得嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有這種感覺啦！因為過去海基會大概就是沉默的服務比較多。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有談判的時候，不見得是顯性，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，但是因為過去大家聚焦海基會在於協商談判，但是它的服務，它在兩岸之間扮演交流的角色……"],["牛委員煦庭：我剛有聽到前面的回答，就是服務案件增加，當初你們來本席辦公室交流的時候，其實也都有提到，這點我表示非常肯定，就是你們不管是對臺商也好，對人民的一些服務，這個都是對的、沒有問題，而且這個也不是本席要問的，但我要講的是今天實際的狀況，看起來是都是我們羅秘書長在拚命的發球，譬如說二六共識跟和平之鹿，事前邱主委知道嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：羅秘書長有跟我講，其實總的……"],["牛委員煦庭：事前講還是事後講？"],["邱主任委員垂正：事前就有講。總的來說，他是希望中國大陸能夠務實面對兩岸關係，能夠正視中華民國客觀事實存在，這才是解決兩岸問題最主要癥結之所在，也希望能夠良性互動，善意堆疊……"],["牛委員煦庭：拋出共識或者是拋出一些善意，比如說和平之鹿這件事情，為什麼不是陸委會講？為什麼是海基會講？你們的戰術考量是什麼，可否說明一下？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝牛委員，我想重要的是，現在不管是政府部門或受政府委託的海基會，我們在執行交流或是兩岸協商相關政策的時候，其實要讓民眾知道，要得到社會認同……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以是善用你的知名度跟聲量嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：所以我覺得，現在的政府跟社會做更詳細的說明，說明為什麼這麼做、怎麼做、如何做，這是需要的。","第二個，兩岸關係的突破，我認為本會受陸委會之委託，更積極主動掌握話語權，避免掉入一個惡性的循環，我希望有所突破，達成健康有序的交流，這是陸委會賦予我們的職責。基本上從過去到現在，不管在哪個職務上，我都會努力去跟社會做溝通，媒體有需要說明，我也都努力說明，我不迴避。謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：我的問題是，為什麼是你來發動？你們兩個當然可以談一些調整分工……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：沒有發不發動的問題……"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼都是你在發動？現在都是你在拋球，也許你拋球之後國臺辦或什麼單位會回應；回應完之後陸委會才……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：兩個原因：第一個原因，其實我們所有的政策，陸委會還有相關單位每個禮拜都有相關會議做討論，所以海基會是完全在陸委會和國家政策方向下去執行相關業務，這是很確定的第一點。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：第二個，基本上，媒體有需要了解的，我覺得掩蓋或是不談，不是件……我看來應該儘量談清楚……"],["牛委員煦庭：你應該積極主動。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：在座所有媒體，剛才你唸了這麼多，沒有一件是我去要求的！沒有一件，沒有一件！"],["牛委員煦庭：他們來找你就對了！好，那我們就回到本質。不管你們兩家之間怎麼分工，誰跑什麼位，誰發什麼球，問題還是要回到核心用意來。剛剛兩位都有講，希望可以理性的、有序的，也許對等尊嚴的來做兩岸交流。但從羅副董事長這一段時間的專訪來看，我有感覺到氛圍的改變。前面的時候我有感受到民進黨政府似乎想在兩岸關係上釋出一些善意，不管是所謂的二六共識或者是什麼也好，前面講衝突的局勢要放緩，兩邊之間要多一點溝通。不過你同時也在不同的節目上講了不同的話，比如說你講要送人家和平之鹿，後來你又講在天安門廣場有人比V就會被帶走。你講中國大陸有五失人員，投資失敗、生活失意、關係失和、心理失衡、精神失常，所以社會很危險。我的意思是，如果要由羅秘書長來主動發球，這當然是你們分工中的戰術考量，但你發球的慣性跟邏輯性是什麼？你的目標是什麼？為什麼你有時候好像要降溫，有時候又好像講出一些對方也許會不高興，會影響交流的話？請說明一下。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝牛委員，委員確實看出了關鍵點。我用四個字回答，就是不卑不亢！不卑不亢！該堅持的立場我們不能放棄；我們不能同意對岸用所謂接受一個中國為原則，作為兩岸協商的前提……"],["牛委員煦庭：這是你們政策的……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：這是基本立場，不能放棄中華民國的主權……絕對不卑……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個本席尊重，但我要談的是，最後這兩個單位到底有沒有發揮功能？不管陸委會也好，海基會也好，到底核心的政策指導是什麼？你到底還要不要交流？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：健康有序、對等尊嚴、不能自我矮化，然後我們推動交流！"],["牛委員煦庭：到目前為止，不管你講的是什麼，基本上對方的回應好像都非常冷淡或者不愉快，你打算用什麼樣的方式來改變這樣的情況？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：善意的大門、溝通的大門永遠為對岸敞開，但不是在放棄我們國家主權和自由民主體制的前提下。"],["牛委員煦庭：這點本席理解！但我的意思是，你講人家有五失人員，或者講人家國內的事，當然就會被對方……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：報告委員……"],["牛委員煦庭：如果人家侵門踏戶，所以你要強硬回應，這點本席可以理解。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：報告委員，其實這是在記者會中所描述的中國現況，因為每兩個禮拜我們會有記者會，而記者會問現在中國大陸的狀況，我們會根據我們的資料……至於以上的稱呼都不是我們自創，都是來自中國內部的報導和相關資料，不是我們創的。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席的意思是……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：講出事實對臺灣是好的。就像剛剛有委員提到一貫道的問題，如果我們一直不證實這件事，會有更多國人誤觸地雷，所以講出事實是很重要的。"],["牛委員煦庭：本席在這裡只是要提醒，今天既然你們選擇了這樣一個分工模式，當然你就有連續曝光的機會，也許久而久之，對岸就把你視為主要的對話窗口……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["牛委員煦庭：你的講話很重要……"],["邱主任委員垂正：政策主導部分，我們每個禮拜四下午由梁文傑副主委擔任發言人，跟媒體記者發布，這個從來沒有中斷過。"],["牛委員煦庭：但曝光的效果好像有一些落差。沒有關係，本席用開放的心態來看待，但我要提醒你，他本來有他的業務分工，而業務分工本來有一定的外交考量，也就是要保持海基會的彈性。如果善意的大門真的打開時，你可以降低政治色彩；但如果今天主客的位置基於你們兩個自己的默契，或協商結果有了不一樣的感覺，讓本來是緩衝機制的海基會變成有比較濃的政治風格，會不會反而影響未來的交流狀況？這是本席要提醒的，時間會給大家答案。第二個要提醒的是，既然羅秘書長有比較多的發言機會，所以他的一貫性跟後面能不能夠有序的導引，來完成我們的政策目標，我想這也是大家要長期監督的，也是審預算時會討論的重點。我希望這個部分……你們什麼時候可以看到良善的大門打開，或什麼時候可以把和平之鹿送出去？這是最後一個問題。你們心裡有打算，有想法嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想這要看對岸要不要收下我們的善意。不過委員擔心我們兩個會不會有海陸大戰？這個不用講！"],["牛委員煦庭：不會有海陸大戰？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們是海陸一家，只會給我們國人海陸大餐，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請王美惠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157753","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157753","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083609a5eee7a3fab6962b1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a3206a443fcc4334c3ed75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"10:01:24 - 10:12:56","影片長度":"00:11:32","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:01:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:12:56+08:00","duration":692,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.57784375,"end":12.771593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.007843750000003,"end":13.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.981593750000002,"end":20.078468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.01096875,"end":83.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.97971875,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.74159375,"end":123.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.96096875,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.97784375,"end":157.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.55471875,"end":158.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.68534375000002,"end":192.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.13596875000002,"end":192.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.57034375,"end":238.87971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.87971875000002,"end":247.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.08909375000002,"end":262.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.04159375,"end":258.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.34034375000005,"end":266.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.24659375000005,"end":267.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.32659375000003,"end":276.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.17784375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.44346875,"end":276.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.57846875,"end":323.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.48721875,"end":297.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.38721875000005,"end":312.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.37846875,"end":316.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.24721875,"end":318.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.29284375000003,"end":322.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.91284375000004,"end":336.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.92971875,"end":324.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.87784375,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.03346875,"end":346.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.59846875,"end":340.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.76596875,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.33096875,"end":349.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.43159375000005,"end":355.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.70534375,"end":364.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.04284375000003,"end":359.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.96971875,"end":395.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.01971875000004,"end":369.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.12096875000003,"end":369.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.20159375000003,"end":397.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":395.61471875,"end":396.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.25159375000004,"end":424.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.14596875,"end":492.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.57409375000003,"end":524.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.26596875,"end":537.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.65596875,"end":550.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.85784375,"end":542.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.3972187500001,"end":548.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.55284375,"end":617.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.9934687500001,"end":620.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.2803437499999,"end":618.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.4909687500001,"end":629.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.73409375,"end":650.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.0603437500001,"end":657.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.5947187500001,"end":659.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.07971875,"end":663.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.9440937500001,"end":667.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.4540937500001,"end":676.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.1953437500001,"end":690.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.93159375,"end":690.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.9734687499999,"end":692.96909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.117,"end":11.879,"text":"謝謝主席,有請院長"},{"start":19.774,"end":48.356,"text":"陳院長好院長早我想要先第一題跟院長討論一下南北院人潮落差很大那其實剛也非常多委員都有提到這件事情我們看到故宮最近的新聞包含北院在上個月初都還有都已經達到去年整年的參觀人次那我們看起來應該整體數字是樂觀的是不斷上升的我們甚至看到南院還辦路跑活動這可能不是大家一般認識博物館的方法但我們看到還有4700人參與我相信故宮在球星球片上"},{"start":49.136,"end":50.377,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":73.909,"end":99.802,"text":"我們再把單月單月列出來我覺得對於南院我們還是很有期待院長你自己怎麼看我可不可以給你多一些時間來回答關於南院這一題目前規劃的想像而南院當然就是大家對南院很大的期待可是南院的確是在交通區域上它有比較不方便但是以我自己的認定的話突破100萬的話是南院的一個"},{"start":100.742,"end":123.695,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":123.755,"end":139.114,"text":"好,院長你剛講到兩個關鍵第一個說你認為可能是因為交通不方便再來第二個你說你們2025的100的plus你們會把北院的重要文物帶到南院去但是交通不方便這個議題我認為應該也不會只有故宮南院有這個困境"},{"start":139.514,"end":158.916,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":159.758,"end":180.625,"text":"再來我們來看一下院長這是我手上故宮自己在賣的文創商品這個是翠玉白菜的筆作我們來看一下這個設計公司看起來應該是台灣可是呢他的製造廠商這個標題是這樣他叫做國立故宮博物院合作開發商品那設計廠商是台灣設計可是是中國製造下一頁"},{"start":181.305,"end":183.188,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":193.595,"end":193.875,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":223.775,"end":238.102,"text":"但是我不懂,如果有這麼大的,光是製造的部分,成本2億多,為什麼不能在台灣製造?你們是找不到廠商,還是因為你們這個文創商品的標案流程,你們其實是沒有限制廠商可以去中國下單嗎?"},{"start":239.336,"end":265.732,"text":"根委員報告在商言商因為臺灣的代理商臺灣的設計臺灣的製作然後就是製作在大陸基本上來講賺錢的還是臺灣的廠商臺灣的代理商但是如果在臺灣的話我知道在臺灣做的話基本上來講的話他的成本所以那我可以問一下這個這樣的合作開發商品他的正常流程應該是什麼"},{"start":268.642,"end":293.038,"text":"報告委員補充說明說商品是廠商提案申請完以後經過故宮審查才可以在故宮上架所以他不是用採購的提議好那以翠玉白菜來說我要去做這個比作然後我跟故宮申請然後你們同意了我的企劃書你們滿意然後呢我去哪裡下單製造你們也不管我你們其實就只有收售權費嘛然後跟在你們的文創商店賣的額外的營業額對不對我們會特別鼓勵廠商用在台灣的"},{"start":294.019,"end":294.899,"text":"獎勵博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":317.09,"end":318.551,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":337.227,"end":354.639,"text":"但是因為小東西的話有時候成本的關係我相信你們這91萬件不見得都是made in china對不對一定有相關的案子是在台灣完成的我想大部分都是台灣高價位都是台灣那個小東西的話因為小東西成本的關係面長也要確定喔大部分嗎"},{"start":355.76,"end":356.58,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":370.985,"end":393.605,"text":"故宮在設計相關合作開發商品接受廠商做標案跟提企劃的時候如果有一個這個更高的標準我認為其實也是照顧台灣廠商因為這幾年中國的製造品質其實大家也慢慢發現很多的問題所以我想我還是要拜託故宮在這件事情上當有廠商來提案他當然必須要將本求利我可以理解可是如果有一些些的可能性我認為我們還是要繼續鼓勵我們會盡量鼓勵台灣的廠商"},{"start":397.908,"end":424.026,"text":"這個部分我們也會再往下追蹤接下來我要問一下關於100plus的部分院長我不知道你記不記得去年的9月2024年的9月我就口頭跟您提過你說要回去研究到了10月我在委員會質詢給您建議你說已經開了三次會議到了去年11月我正式用預算提案這個是我從去年就開始一直在追的題目可是我們往下看看到今年的1月故宮給我們的報告就只有三段話包含"},{"start":425.228,"end":447.618,"text":"公共化、在地化、專業化、多元化、國際化這些元素你們都沒有說你們就簡單的三段文字就想要告訴我這是你們的一百plus我覺得這個非常的荒謬那我們再來看我們到預算書裡面去把一百plus的關鍵字幫院長你抓出來了我們看到這邊會用將近一億三千多萬包含有紙計劃包含還有行銷、媒宣還有策展"},{"start":448.038,"end":465.735,"text":"但是我們看到你們實際上的內容其實你們還把今年已經開辦的大美不言算進去把法國跟捷克辦的兩個龍展也算進去然後如同你們的報告上面說南北院特展還有避送故宮送版圖書千年神域北送西元雅集傳奇還有江戶服飾假死萬年把這些"},{"start":466.135,"end":468.556,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":493.978,"end":494.138,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":521.698,"end":523.139,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":540.872,"end":541.993,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物"},{"start":560.229,"end":560.69,"text":"我從10月質詢、11月審查預算、1月收到報告"},{"start":578.328,"end":603.802,"text":"只有三行字12月現在要審查預算我看到你們經費變得非常非常多可是卻沒有具體的計畫跟說明我認為這件事情他不只很難吸引台灣的遊客剛剛萬美林委員也說他希望可以吸引中國遊客我更想說的是不管中國遊客要不要來我覺得是另外一個議題可是台灣現在每年到台灣來觀光的日本人跟韓國人絕對也都會對故宮有興趣可是我看不到一個論述的話語的能力好嗎院長"},{"start":604.562,"end":629.023,"text":"所以我追了我從去年一直追追到現在已經一年了我們還是看不到百年plus的特殊性或者是他讓大家如何想像到我跟故宮百年plus的關係我認為這個部分故宮拜託要再加強還是院長你覺得這已經改了這已經做了沒辦法沒有沒有沒有這論述的話當然是當然是沒有譬如說我們有一個展覽叫做甲子萬年甲子萬年的話就是故宮北院然後這"},{"start":630.782,"end":657.054,"text":"故宮到台灣來每一件物品跟故宮的時代的接軌的一個關係那這個東西的話當然他會有一個陳述可是因為那個策展整個文案還沒有出來所以文案沒有出來的話他只是只能用一種比較好那最後一個問題如果真的像院長您說的我們現在就尊重您的規劃跟您的想像您認為這可以給故宮帶來多少人次的上升"},{"start":659.012,"end":671.52,"text":"如果因為百年plus你們的用心規劃跟企劃因為我們在做一個企劃我們當然會設定他的目標我們要走到哪裡去嗎我們當然就是北岸250萬然後南岸100萬350萬的話是我們一起的現階段的一個目標"},{"start":676.223,"end":676.884,"text":"主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":672,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時1分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：有請院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：陳委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：院長早。我想第一題先跟院長討論一下南北院人潮落差很大，剛剛非常多委員也都有提到這件事情。我們看到故宮最近的新聞，包含北院在上個月初都已經達到去年整年的參觀人次，我們看起來整體數字應該是樂觀的，是不斷上升的，我們甚至看到南院還辦路跑活動，這可能不是大家一般認識博物館的方法，但我們看到還有4,700人參與，我相信故宮在求新求變上非常努力。可是有了這個努力之後，我們來看目前故宮的數字，我上次在業務報告的時候就跟院長討論過，故宮所擁有的國寶應該是臺灣最具競爭力的博物館，可是如果我們看網路溫度計，它目前也只有排名第三，把參觀人次加起來，其實也都排得很後面。可是我們再把單月、單月列出來，我覺得對於南院，我們還是很有期待，院長，你自己怎麼看？我可不可以給你多一些時間回答關於南院這一題？目前規劃的想像。"],["蕭院長宗煌：關於南院，大家對南院有很大的期待，可是南院的確是在交通區位上比較不方便，但是以我自己的認定，突破100萬是南院一定可以做到的一個目標。針對這個部分，我們在明年有一個策略性的作為──「故宮100＋」，我們把故宮北院的谿山行旅圖三件重要文物，包括國寶的銅器，我們會到南院去展覽，我想這個對南院的參觀人數會有一定的幫忙。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，院長，你剛剛講到兩個關鍵，第一個，你說你認為可能是因為交通不方便。再來第二個，你說你們2025「故宮100＋」，你們會把北院的重要文物帶到南院去。但是交通不方便這個議題，我認為應該也不會只有故宮南院有這個困境，後續不管是接駁車、交通車，或者是什麼樣方便的公共運輸，我認為故宮應該有機會跟地方政府做相對的討論，因為確實我們希望有更多人去南院，如果院長你真的認為交通不便是其中的因素，我希望院長在這個部分應該可以更加積極，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：再來我們來看一下，院長，我手上這是故宮自己在賣的文創商品，這個是翠玉白菜的筆座，我們來看一下，這個設計公司看起來應該是臺灣的，可是它的製造廠商……這個標題是這樣，它叫做國立故宮博物院合作開發商品，設計廠商是臺灣設計，可是是中國製造。我手上這個也是，一樣都是臺灣設計，可是都是中國製造，就連這一本「大美不言」，我本來以為裡面有漂亮的插圖，結果其實打開，它就是筆記本！"],["蕭院長宗煌：筆記書。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，我很想知道一下，到底為什麼我們臺灣沒有廠商有能力生產這樣的文創商品嗎？怎麼說？因為我們看到滿滿的文創商品，而且故宮花了非常多的預算想要增加文創商品的開發。在你們的書面報告裡面，你們說出版品會增加8萬6,000件，文化創意衍生商品91萬7,621件，合計產製成本2億3,960萬9,000元，可是我不懂，如果有這麼大的……光是製造的部分，成本就兩億多，為什麼不能在臺灣製造？你們是找不到廠商，還是因為你們這個文創商品的標案流程沒有限制廠商，可以去中國下單嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，在商言商，因為臺灣的代理商、臺灣的設計、臺灣的製作，就是製作在大陸……基本上來講，賺錢的還是臺灣的廠商、臺灣的代理商，但是如果在臺灣……"],["陳委員培瑜：不是啦，我當然知道，院長，我當然知道……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道、我知道，在臺灣做的話，基本上來講，它的成本都會提高，所以……"],["陳委員培瑜：那我可以問一下，這樣的合作開發商品正常流程應該是什麼？"],["王處長耀鋒：報告委員，補充說明，所有商品是廠商提案申請完以後，經過故宮審查，才可以在故宮上架，所以它不是用採購的程序。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，以翠玉白菜來說，我要去做這個筆座，我向故宮申請，然後你們同意了，我的企劃書，你們滿意，但是我去哪裡下單製造你們也不管我？你們其實就只有收授權費，還有在你們的文創商店賣的額外營業額，對不對？"],["王處長耀鋒：我們會特別鼓勵廠商用臺灣的……"],["陳委員培瑜：特別鼓勵？可是我很好奇……"],["王處長耀鋒：譬如說用獎勵的方式在臺灣製造。"],["陳委員培瑜：你們今年花了兩億多，我們來看，我不懂為什麼不能在臺灣做，或者是有沒有一些重要的標誌性商品，如果臺灣廠商是可以生產的，我當然知道廠商在商言商，我可以理解，可是故宮難道沒有高的標準跟角度來看這個事情嗎？我真的不懂，像這個筆記本……"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，出版的話……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個筆記本要價680，院長，可是它是Made In China，我自己做出版的，我看一下它紙質也沒有特別好。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個筆記本當然是個案、個案，可是如果是出版的話，譬如說，臺中興臺印刷它就自己有一個品牌。"],["陳委員培瑜：對嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：這些品牌基本上來講，就是臺灣才有辦法做出那樣的水準。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我就問，我相信我現在看到你們書面報告的數字……"],["蕭院長宗煌：但是因為小東西，有時候成本的關係……"],["陳委員培瑜：我相信你們這91萬件不見得都是Made In China對不對？一定有相關的案子是在臺灣完成的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我想大部分都是臺灣，高價位都是臺灣……"],["陳委員培瑜：大部分嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：但是小東西的話，因為小東西成本的關係……"],["陳委員培瑜：院長，你要確定喔！大部分嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：那個印刷……"],["陳委員培瑜：你們有盤點過嗎？91萬件……"],["蕭院長宗煌：清明上河圖那個大圖，那些高價位的都是臺灣自己生產的。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以你覺得這個不算高價？可是這也是高價位筆記本，680欸，裡面什麼都沒有！我要講啦，我認為故宮在設計相關合作開發商品，接受廠商做標案跟提企劃的時候，如果有一個更高的標準，我認為其實也是照顧臺灣廠商，因為這幾年中國的製造品質，其實大家也慢慢發現很多的問題，所以我想還是要拜託故宮在這件事情上，當有廠商來提案，他當然必須要將本求利，我可以理解，可是如果有一些些的可能性，我認為我們還是要積極鼓勵。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們都會儘量鼓勵臺灣的廠商。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個部分我們以後再往下追蹤。接下來我要問一下關於「100+」的部分。院長，我不知道你記不記得去（2023）年9月我就口頭跟您提過，你說要回去研究，到了10月我在委員會質詢給你建議，你說已經開了3次會議，到了去年11月我正式用預算提案，這個是我從去年就開始一直在追的題目，可是我們往下看，看到今年1月，故宮給我們的報告就只有三段話，包含公共化、在地化、專業化、多元化、國際化這些元素你們都沒有說明，你們就簡單的三段文字，就想要告訴我這是你們的「100+」，我覺得這個非常地荒謬。","我們再來看，我們到預算書裡面去幫院長把「100+」的關鍵字抓出來了，我們看到這邊會用將近一億三千多萬，包含子計畫，還有包含行銷、媒宣，還有策展，但是我們看到你們實際上的內容，其實你們還把今年已經開辦的「大美不言」算進去，把法國跟捷克辦的兩個「龍展」也算進去，然後如同你們報告上面說的，南、北院特展還有「皕宋─故宮宋版圖書觀止」、「千年神遇─北宋西園雅集傳奇」，還有「江戶浮世之美」、「甲子萬年」，把這些放在一起，叫做百年大展，我實在是看不出策展的企劃性跟能力到底在哪裡，可是實質上卻編列這麼多預算，我真的很好奇。院長，在你自己任內可以迎接這個「100+」，我認為非常地特別，歷史上不會再有第二個院長有機會迎接「故宮100+」，所以我想問，到底院長您自己在跟相關企劃團隊溝通的時候是抱持著什麼樣的想像在看這個百年plus？"],["蕭院長宗煌：博物館有博物館的一個既定行程跟它的規畫，「100+」老實講，沒有錯，是我到任以後才開始規劃的，它已經有一些既有的展覽，既有的展覽的話，我們去調整把那個展覽變成是一個比較有指標性的展覽，這個部分基本上來講，我不可能讓一個博物館把所有展覽都拿掉，然後只有一個大展，叫做百年大展。"],["陳委員培瑜：院長，我當然認同，在您到任前同仁們已經在努力的事情，我當然覺得不可以廢止，可是我覺得您到任之後，您可以接受您的同仁給你這樣的說法，然後你認為沒有辦法更改時程，所以我們就看不到一個有策展性的百年plus這件事情，我覺得……"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，這些展覽都是很重要的、很好的展覽。"],["陳委員培瑜：剛剛葛如鈞委員……"],["蕭院長宗煌：比如像「甲子萬年」、「皕宋」，這個都是非常經典的展覽……"],["陳委員培瑜：我沒有說它不經典，院長，我沒有說。"],["蕭院長宗煌：國外的博物館界都會認為這是故宮的一個……"],["陳委員培瑜：我沒有說它不經典，院長，我從頭到尾都沒有說它不經典，我是說你們現在列出來的大展，我看不出它跟百年plus的詮釋關係，你們論述的話語能力到底在哪裡？如果我們去看一個展，我們想像的是這幾個展之間可以讓我連結到百年plus，可是我現在看到相關報告裡面也沒有，更何況你們之前回給我的報告也才三句話就想要把百年plus講完，我們回到最後一頁。謝謝主席，不好意思。","我從10月質詢，11月審查預算，1月收到報告，只有三行字，現在12月要審查預算，我看到你們的經費變得非常非常多，可是卻沒有具體的計畫跟說明，我認為這件事情不只很難吸引臺灣的遊客，剛剛萬美玲委員也說他希望可以吸引中國遊客，但我更想說的是，不管中國遊客要不要來，我覺得那是另外一個議題，現在每年到臺灣來觀光的日本人跟韓國人也絕對都會對故宮有興趣，可是我看不到一個論述的話語能力，好嗎？院長，我從去年一直追，追到現在已經1年了，我們還是看不到百年plus的特殊性，或者是它如何讓大家想像到我跟故宮百年plus的關係，我認為這個部分，故宮，拜託要再加強！還是院長你覺得這已經做了，沒辦法再改？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有、沒有，論述的話當然是沒有錯，譬如我們有一個展覽叫做「甲子萬年」，「甲子萬年」就是故宮北院……是故宮到臺灣來，每一件物品跟故宮時代接軌的一個關係，這個東西當然會有一個陳述，可是因為那個策展的整個文案還沒有出來，文案沒有出來的話，它只能用一種比較形容式的……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，最後一個問題，如果真的像院長您說的，我們現在就尊重您的規劃跟您的想像，你認為這可以給故宮帶來多少人次的上升？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮不能……"],["陳委員培瑜：如果因為百年plus，你們的用心規劃跟企劃……因為我們在做一個企畫，當然會設定它的目標要走到哪裡去嘛。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們當然就是北院250萬，然後南院100萬，350萬是我們現階段的一個預期目標。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們就來看看有沒有機會達到這個目標，如果沒有，我認為回過來檢討如何加強不同國家的遊客，日本的、韓國的或是我們臺灣自己的本地遊客對故宮的認識跟想像，我認為這是故宮非常重要的任務。以上，謝謝院長，謝謝主席。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳培瑜委員。","接下來我們有請林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157752","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157752","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360e9bdf932b631bd422ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a32066c7d451d8d01ad695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"09:59:52 - 10:11:47","影片長度":"00:11:55","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:59:52+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:11:47+08:00","duration":715,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.08096875,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.342218750000001,"end":6.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.603468750000001,"end":8.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.67096875,"end":8.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.82284375,"end":9.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.852218750000002,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.99096875,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":14.442218750000002,"end":14.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.712218750000002,"end":29.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.23721875,"end":30.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.32159375,"end":30.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.33846875,"end":32.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.148468750000003,"end":33.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.06784375,"end":34.658468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.21909375,"end":38.978468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.501593750000005,"end":44.040968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.53034375,"end":46.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.24721875,"end":53.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.16159375,"end":56.055968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.98409375000001,"end":70.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.90596875,"end":82.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.76909375000001,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.03846875,"end":87.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.79784375,"end":90.76784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.10534375,"end":92.67471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.51846875000001,"end":95.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.56034375,"end":97.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.31534375000001,"end":106.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.05221875000001,"end":115.21971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.55721875,"end":116.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.27846875,"end":119.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.33284375000001,"end":121.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.56034375,"end":124.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.34909375000001,"end":131.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.89221875,"end":144.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.39221875,"end":155.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.46221875,"end":162.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.48221875000002,"end":165.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.16534375,"end":167.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.91596875000002,"end":170.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.97471875000002,"end":171.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.22346875000002,"end":177.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.21409375000002,"end":183.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.32284375,"end":186.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.58409375000002,"end":214.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.76534375,"end":217.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.87034375000002,"end":219.84471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.99221875,"end":224.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.51471875000001,"end":226.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.47221875000002,"end":233.74971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.87159375000002,"end":238.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.22534375,"end":242.65971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.33471875,"end":248.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.04284375,"end":250.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.48971875,"end":251.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.41346875000002,"end":256.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.62784375,"end":259.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.68221875,"end":261.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.71159375,"end":262.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.80846875000003,"end":263.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.53409375,"end":265.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.70221875000004,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.58721875000003,"end":277.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.54909375,"end":276.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.94096875,"end":280.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":281.13471875,"end":282.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.10909375,"end":284.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.57284375,"end":286.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.47971875,"end":288.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.23471875,"end":306.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.46409375,"end":311.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.59846875,"end":311.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.45471875000004,"end":314.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.07034375,"end":319.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.08659375,"end":319.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.76159375000003,"end":320.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.63909375000003,"end":322.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.22096875,"end":324.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.63409375000003,"end":327.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":327.55784375,"end":329.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.81471875,"end":332.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.53596875,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.11346875000004,"end":339.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.01596875,"end":341.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.42034375000003,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.14159375,"end":354.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.46096875,"end":354.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.24971875,"end":357.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.23659375,"end":361.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.26971875000004,"end":363.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.90659375,"end":367.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.83846875,"end":369.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.21784375000004,"end":371.61846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.00659375000004,"end":372.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.10346875000005,"end":375.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.74409375000005,"end":378.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.73534375,"end":380.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.61284375,"end":380.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.76034375,"end":381.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.79409375,"end":382.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.99221875,"end":392.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.01659375,"end":392.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.83034375,"end":404.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.59221875000003,"end":406.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.33409375,"end":414.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.97034375000004,"end":415.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.57346875,"end":422.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.06159375000004,"end":426.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.54659375,"end":427.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.14971875000003,"end":431.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.72284375000004,"end":433.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":433.90409375,"end":433.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.22471875,"end":436.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.22846875000005,"end":439.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.87346875000003,"end":442.15596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.84784375000004,"end":444.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.58159375,"end":447.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.56846875,"end":452.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.58034375000005,"end":455.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.30534375,"end":460.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.90409375,"end":464.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.57846875,"end":469.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.18534375,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.36659375000005,"end":474.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.74159375000005,"end":476.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.08721875000003,"end":479.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.73221875,"end":485.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.04784375,"end":493.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.50659375000004,"end":497.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.97471875,"end":495.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.33721875000003,"end":497.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.48471875,"end":500.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.21034375000005,"end":501.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.84284375000004,"end":502.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.66534375000003,"end":507.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.59721875,"end":510.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.82034375,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.0690937500001,"end":514.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.9040937500001,"end":516.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.48596875,"end":522.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.70034375,"end":527.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.8259687500001,"end":529.2647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.68221875,"end":533.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.68596875,"end":536.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.49971875,"end":539.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":540.2165937500001,"end":542.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":543.4397187500001,"end":545.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.61659375,"end":546.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.2365937500001,"end":550.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.5947187500001,"end":553.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.22284375,"end":559.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.0109687500001,"end":562.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":563.18346875,"end":565.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.03534375,"end":572.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.4097187500001,"end":574.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.1984687500001,"end":577.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.79721875,"end":578.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.4340937500001,"end":580.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.45909375,"end":584.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":584.96909375,"end":588.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":588.6140937499999,"end":591.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.96346875,"end":595.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.0772187499999,"end":595.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.0347187500001,"end":616.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.1753437500001,"end":619.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.90034375,"end":620.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.30534375,"end":625.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.4015937500001,"end":635.5772187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.33659375,"end":639.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":640.7578437500001,"end":640.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.79159375,"end":646.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.7234687499999,"end":648.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.9422187499999,"end":650.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.3215937500001,"end":655.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.6753437500001,"end":656.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.00846875,"end":659.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.94909375,"end":662.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.74159375,"end":665.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.0872187500001,"end":668.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.52971875,"end":671.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":671.50409375,"end":672.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.1072187500001,"end":676.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.98846875,"end":681.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.73034375,"end":683.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":684.14346875,"end":686.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":687.19784375,"end":688.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.21846875,"end":692.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.5303437500002,"end":700.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.79096875,"end":699.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":700.69784375,"end":706.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.20721875,"end":710.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.45159375,"end":711.58221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.107,"end":5.467,"text":"我們現在是不是可以請副秘書長"},{"start":34.124,"end":52.477,"text":"副秘書長副秘書長好我們今天處理有關於立法院的預算那針對立法院的預算第一個問題是我們國會交流的事務我們預算增加了2500萬你有發現嗎"},{"start":57.365,"end":84.198,"text":"預算為什麼需要增加2500萬的這件事情是不是可以請我們負責國會交流的處事後再給所有的委員一個比較詳盡的書面資料因為我想你要多2500萬代表你要做很多新的事情讓所有的委員都知道這樣我們在審核預算的時候才有一個基準一個禮拜之內會有困難嗎"},{"start":87.193,"end":105.832,"text":"沒有問題沒有問題嘛那第二個事情就是說因為我們立法院裡面我們要去審人家的預算我們自己的預算到底怎麼用這件事情其實我們立法院自己要做表率啦那也因此我希望因為"},{"start":107.15,"end":120.996,"text":"新的國會台灣民眾黨當初所提出來的一個重要的訴求就是我們經費的使用必須要透明那這件事情呢當初不管是中國國民黨"},{"start":122.805,"end":143.674,"text":"還是民主進步黨他們的政府院長的候選人到台灣民眾黨黨團來拜會的時候他們也做出承諾了那因此我希望針對我們有關於國會交流事務的費用如果是有本院其他的一些自集團體所申請的話"},{"start":145.458,"end":167.487,"text":"那院長或者是透過什麼樣的機制准的話我覺得應該要有一個公開透明的機制讓大家都可以看得到這件事情會不會有困難不會有困難不會有困難嘛但是我必須要老實講到目前為止過去舊的國會到我們今天備詢為止這個制度都沒有建立起來"},{"start":169.193,"end":182.147,"text":"這個制度都沒有建立起來我當初201616到2020第一次當立法委員的時候我曾經有要過這樣的資料結果要這樣的資料引發那個時候高層蠻高的關切"},{"start":184.629,"end":213.969,"text":"但是我覺得這個事情我們所有的公務支出正正當當既然編在國家的預算裡面納稅人所使用那就應該讓全體納稅人都可以有一個機制大家都可以看得到那這個部分是不是再拜託秘書長回去跟同仁研議看什麼樣的時間點這個制度可以把它做起來那譬如說今年顯然來不及了嘛那明年我們的預算開始執行的時候這件事情是不是可以做到"},{"start":214.989,"end":215.11,"text":"副秘書長"},{"start":243.659,"end":264.887,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分應該是損壞者要負賠償責任好 那具體的來請教5月17號民進黨立委吳秉瑞砸毀備群台的螢幕請問這個修繕花了多少錢這邊容我請那個可以找熟悉的人上來回答"},{"start":267.988,"end":276.998,"text":"報告委員 有關那個螢幕壞掉的部分的話是請廠商來維修目前沒有花錢就在保固就是維護裡面來執行就還在保固期間嗎對OK好第二個11月4號財政委員會他砸毀了整個麥克風啊又是吳秉瑞這個花了多少錢"},{"start":289.344,"end":308.554,"text":"報告委員因為我們有關麥克風都會做備品的一個備品那因為麥克風使用他是非常及時的所以當這個設備有損壞的時候我們馬上是用備品來做使用那雖然是備品備品不要錢嗎備品要錢所以要多少錢目前我們在"},{"start":315.137,"end":323.78,"text":"被品使用以後再去買被品大概花了14萬花了14萬嘛對阿花了14萬來請副秘書長誰應該要賠損壞者應該要負賠償責任那有跟損壞者求償嗎損壞者有賠嗎這個事情應該納稅人買單嗎這是我的問題目前還沒有進行這樣的一個求償程序阿有打算要進行求償的程序嗎還是就算了"},{"start":345.285,"end":369.122,"text":"報告委員因為這個好像在院會裡面有一個對針對著這一個案子有一個提案那可能我們會依照這個兩個事情齁院會的提案歸院會的提案嘛在侵權行為法裡面在刑法裡面毀損罪構成民事的侵權行為要負損害賠償責任這個是最基本的道理嘛"},{"start":370.393,"end":380.219,"text":"這是最基本的道理嘛這跟院會有沒有什麼樣的案子到底有什麼關係這是我的困惑這是我的困惑"},{"start":381.803,"end":381.963,"text":"副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":409.369,"end":433.311,"text":"如果委員都有公司的話基本上我們有一個月的時間把它處理掉用一個月的時間把它處理掉嘛好我要問的第二個問題是我們現在立法院各個會議室沒有申請使用我們自己可以開門去用嗎不開放使用不開放使用那我如果就是自己開門進去用了會怎麼樣目前是沒有罰則"},{"start":434.318,"end":435.759,"text":"基本上是不開放時間不可以啦"},{"start":460.953,"end":484.776,"text":"那不可以但是我就是這樣子做了那現在打算要怎麼辦因為我們現在立法院的運作是要回到叢林法則嗎當然不是那所以這件事情你們有沒有什麼言議因為人家說啦說這是喇叭鎖阿沒有破壞阿用非常平和的手段阿就可以進來了那這個鎖要不要換阿"},{"start":486.098,"end":486.898,"text":"希望以後齁"},{"start":514.946,"end":542.216,"text":"不要再發生這樣的事情那最後一件事情這個是我要特別請你們回去研議的協商會議的會議紀錄是不是應該都應該上網看登公報是嗎從資訊公開的角度的話我們希望這個方式我跟副秘書長反映一下因為我常常會查立法紀錄我上次本委員會在處理"},{"start":545.681,"end":569.739,"text":"我去查我們第9屆國會接避者保護法黨團協商委員會協商的會議紀錄結果我上去找了立法院議事及公報資訊網我在上面完全找不到那找不到呢我就請教了一下我們的同仁我們的同仁說2020年2月之前如果黨團協商沒有結論不會把會議紀錄刊登公報"},{"start":573.442,"end":573.562,"text":"可以﹖"},{"start":597.062,"end":610.391,"text":"跟委員報告那有關協商的部分發言跟那個影音是由公報處來做處理那我們會錄音錄影還有做書面的記錄但是黨團協商的那個報告是應該由那個黨團的協商的沒有沒有我現在不是在講黨團協商的報告是整個會議的會議記錄"},{"start":620.418,"end":639.394,"text":"比如說主席宣布開會哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話之後的2020年2月以後的都有2020年2月以前的沒有現在我的問題是說之前是沒有記錄所以沒有上網還是有記錄但是沒有上網"},{"start":640.899,"end":647.002,"text":"對 這個就是我的問題 有記錄但不上網的理由是什麼過去應該是沒有因為上網的那個是到後面才2002年才開始有這個記錄現在這個就是我的問題 可以不能請你們回去研議一下"},{"start":663.786,"end":688.002,"text":"我們如果手上沒有資料你說要同仁重新回去聽黨可能人力耗費過去這我可以理解但如果既然已經有了資料的話要不要考慮一下之前的資料立法的過程盡量讓他透明嘛那這樣子的話不管是立委或者是其他的公民大家要追蹤這整部法案"},{"start":690.25,"end":690.711,"text":"這部分我們會後來做研究"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":486,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時59分）開始以前先跟主席做一個會議詢問，我剛剛知道我們的秘書長因為身體不適，這個理由非常的正當，我絕對支持主席的裁示，只是我也希望我們委員會這邊能夠對秘書長表達關切，因為我覺得他這樣子真的太辛苦了。"],["主席：好，那我們就照……"],["黃委員國昌：我們現在是不是可以請副秘書長。"],["主席：副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：副秘書長好。我們今天處理有關於立法院的預算，針對立法院的預算，第一個問題是我們國會交流的事務，預算增加了2,500萬，你有發現嗎？預算為什麼需要增加2,500萬的這一件事情，是不是可以請負責國會交流的處，事後再給所有的委員一個比較詳盡的書面資料，因為我想你要多2,500萬，代表你要做很多新的事情，讓所有的委員都知道，這樣我們在審核預算的時候才有一個基準，一個禮拜之內會有困難嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有問題。"],["黃委員國昌：那第二個事情就是說，因為我們立法院裡面，我們要去審人家的預算，我們自己的預算到底怎麼用這件事情，其實我們立法院自己要做表率，因為新的國會，台灣民眾黨當初所提出來的一個重要的訴求，就是我們經費的使用必須要透明，那這件事情當初不管是中國國民黨還是民主進步黨，他們的正、副院長的候選人到台灣民眾黨黨團來拜會的時候，他們也做出承諾了，因此我希望有關於國會交流事務的費用，如果是由本院其他的一些次級團體所申請的話，那院長或者是透過什麼樣的機制准的話，我覺得應該要有一個公開透明的機制，讓大家都可以看得到，這件事情會不會有困難？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不會困難。"],["黃委員國昌：但是我必須要老實講，到目前為止，過去舊的國會到我們今天備詢為止，這個制度都沒有建立起來！這個制度都沒有建立起來！我當初2016到2020第一次當立法委員的時候，我曾經有要過這樣的資料，結果要這樣子的資料引發那個時候高層滿高的關切，但是我覺得這個事情，我們所有的公務支出正正當當，既然編在國家的預算裡面，納稅人所使用，那就應該讓全體納稅人都可以有一個機制，大家都可以看得到。那這個部分是不是再拜託副秘書長回去跟同仁研議，看什麼樣的時間點，這個制度可以把它做起來，譬如說今年顯然來不及了，那明年我們的預算開始執行的時候，這件事情是不是可以做到？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：報告委員，可以。"],["黃委員國昌：好。我接下來要問的是，立法委員在議場裡面有攻防，這難免啦！但問題是立法委員在攻防的時候毀損公物這件事情，這個錢到底應該要誰出啊？這個錢應該納稅人出嗎？請問副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員。這個部分應該是損壞者要負賠償責任。"],["黃委員國昌：好，那具體的來請教，5月17號民進黨立委吳秉叡砸毀備詢台的螢幕，請問這個修繕花了多少錢？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這邊容我請……"],["黃委員國昌：可以，找熟悉的人上來回答。"],["鄭處長輝彬：報告委員，有關那個螢幕壞掉的部分，是請廠商來維修，目前沒有花錢，就是在保固維護裡面來執行。"],["黃委員國昌：就還在保固期間？"],["鄭處長輝彬：對。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好。第二個，11月4號財政委員會，他砸毀了整個麥克風，又是吳秉叡，這個花了多少錢？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，麥克風我們都會有備品，因為麥克風使用是非常即時的，所以當這個設備有損壞的時候，我們馬上是以備品來做使用。"],["黃委員國昌：雖然是備品，備品不要錢嗎？"],["蘇處長顯星：備品要錢……"],["黃委員國昌：所以要多少錢？"],["蘇處長顯星：目前我們備品使用以後再去買備品，大概花了14萬。"],["黃委員國昌：花了14萬？"],["蘇處長顯星：對。"],["黃委員國昌：請問副秘書長，誰應該要賠？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：損壞者應該要負賠償責任。"],["黃委員國昌：那有跟損壞者求償嗎？損壞者有賠嗎？這個事情應該納稅人買單嗎？這是我的問題。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前還沒有進行這樣一個求償程序。"],["黃委員國昌：有打算要進行求償的程序嗎？還是就算了？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，因為好像院會裡面針對這一個案子有一個提案，可能我們會依照這個……"],["黃委員國昌：這是兩個事情，院會的提案歸院會的提案，在侵權行為法裡面、在刑法裡面，毀損罪構成民事的侵權行為，要負損害賠償責任，這個是最基本的道理嘛！這跟院會有沒有什麼樣的案子，到底有什麼關係？這是我的困惑，所以什麼時候要求償？"],["蘇處長顯星：報告委員，因為公報處負責的是把這個設備能夠提供給委員即時使用……"],["黃委員國昌：這個我了解，所以我才請教副秘書長。"],["蘇處長顯星：我會遵照院方的要求，如果有要求償我們會把這個報價給院方，院方做求償的時候是依據這個，而公報處是即時的提供麥克風。"],["黃委員國昌：副秘書長，這個事情要處理多久？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：如果委員都有共識的話，基本上，我們用一個月的時間把它處理掉。"],["黃委員國昌：用一個月的時間把它處理掉，好。","我要問的第二個問題是，現在立法院各個會議室沒有申請使用的話，我們自己可以開門去用嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不開放使用。"],["黃委員國昌：我如果是自己開門進去用了會怎麼樣？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前是沒有罰則。"],["黃委員國昌：目前是沒有罰則，那針對這件事情，之前我們也跟院長反映過，我每次來這邊，在你們議事人員沒有來以前，其實我都站在外面等議事同仁來，議事同仁開了門以後我們才進來，那我自己可以把門打開進來嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上不開放的時間是不可以的。"],["黃委員國昌：不可以，但我就是這樣子做了，那現在打算要怎麼辦？我們現在立法院的運作是要回到叢林法則嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：當然不是。"],["黃委員國昌：所以這件事情你們有沒有什麼研議？因為人家說這是喇叭鎖，沒有破壞，用非常平和的手段就可以進來，那這個鎖要不要換啊？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：請委員看一下旁邊那個門，我們已經在旁邊裝了門栓的部分。"],["黃委員國昌：不是啊！你如果要從外面鎖的話，你裡面的門栓要怎麼做？總有一道門裡面沒有門栓嘛！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們有一道門沒有，對，沒有錯，但那個有加兩個鎖。"],["黃委員國昌：所以沒有辦法用這樣子就直接進來了？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有辦法。"],["黃委員國昌：每一個委員會的會議室都已經處理好了嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，目前都處理好了。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好。希望以後不要再發生這樣的事情了。","最後一件事情，我想要特別請你們回去研議的，協商會議的會議紀錄是不是都應該上網刊登公報，是嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：從資訊公開的角度，我們希望是以這個方式。"],["黃委員國昌：我跟副秘書長反映一下，因為我常常會查立法紀錄，上次本委員會在處理揭弊者保護法的時候，我去查我們第9屆國會揭弊者保護法黨團協商、委員會協商的會議紀錄，我上去找了立法院議事暨公報資訊網，結果我在上面完全找不到，因為找不到，我就請教了一下我們的同仁，我們的同仁說，2020年2月之前，如果黨團協商沒有結論，不會把會議紀錄刊登公報，我現在只有一個問題，黨團協商雖然沒有結論，但是那個會議是有進行的，而且那個時候應該ivod都已經啟用了，所以是沒有做會議紀錄導致沒有辦法上網，還是有做會議紀錄但是決定不要上網？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個我們請公報處說明。"],["黃委員國昌：可以。"],["蘇處長顯星：跟委員報告，有關協商的部分，發言跟影音是由公報處來做處理，我們會錄音、錄影還有做書面的紀錄，但是黨團協商的報告應該是由那個黨團協商的……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有、沒有、沒有，我現在不是在講黨團協商的報告，而是整個會議的會議紀錄，譬如說主席宣布開會、哪一個黨團的代表說了什麼話等等，2020年2月以後的都有，2020年2月以前的沒有，現在我的問題是，之前是沒有紀錄所以沒有上網？還是有紀錄但是沒有上網？"],["蘇處長顯星：紀錄我們有，但是那時候沒有上網。"],["黃委員國昌：對，這個就是我的問題，有紀錄但不上網的理由是什麼？"],["蘇處長顯星：過去應該是沒有，因為上網是到後面2020年後才開始有這個機制。"],["黃委員國昌：現在這個就是我的問題，可不可以請你們回去研議一下，我們如果手上沒有資料，你說要同仁重新回去聽打，可能人力耗費過鉅，這我可以理解，但既然已經有資料的話，要不要考慮一下，之前的資料、立法的過程，儘量讓它透明，這樣子的話，不管是立委或者是其他的公民，大家要追蹤這整部法案，到底是發生了什麼樣的事情、誰做過什麼樣的主張或者是發言，才會有跡可循，這應該沒有很困難吧！副秘書長，可不可以承諾回去研究一下，如果有紀錄的話，看用什麼樣子的方式逐步把它公開，好不好？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，這個部分我們會後來做研究。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。下一位我們請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157750","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157750","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360010bd509f814d3444a6acd55cc740f50f169037e582a3206ba60f46e32a191315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:52:50 - 10:05:29","影片長度":"00:12:39","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:52:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:05:29+08:00","duration":759,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.3134687500000002,"end":2.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.574093750000001,"end":8.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.907218750000002,"end":9.599093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.004093750000003,"end":19.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.512843750000002,"end":34.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.01284375,"end":36.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.48534375,"end":37.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.60721875,"end":42.150968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.31596875,"end":39.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.150968750000004,"end":47.517218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.454718750000005,"end":43.095968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.70284375,"end":53.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.360968750000005,"end":48.580343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.470343750000005,"end":50.554718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.22534375,"end":52.596593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.60909375,"end":57.000968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.149093750000006,"end":54.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.27096875,"end":60.173468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.64596875,"end":61.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.83159375,"end":61.523468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.99596875,"end":62.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.04659375000001,"end":62.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.87346875,"end":63.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.70034375,"end":69.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.07909375,"end":71.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.16721875,"end":81.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.29659375,"end":83.59596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.76909375000001,"end":83.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.96721875,"end":86.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.71784375,"end":87.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.25784375,"end":87.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.60784375,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.68346875,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.82596875,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.10846875,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.75346875000001,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.46221875,"end":103.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.70659375000001,"end":105.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.02284375,"end":106.57971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.37284375,"end":109.29659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.26284375,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.35534375,"end":111.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.60846875,"end":117.36284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.62534375000001,"end":111.64221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.79721875000001,"end":119.23596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.18096875,"end":127.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.39971875,"end":137.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.44971875000002,"end":130.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.79534375,"end":130.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.64221875,"end":139.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.94159375,"end":148.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.88596875000002,"end":146.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.48471875,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.76596875,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.47034375,"end":193.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.59221875,"end":162.14909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.95846875,"end":210.15846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.48784375000002,"end":212.40284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.11159375000003,"end":224.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.09846875000002,"end":216.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.26159375,"end":235.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.46409375000002,"end":225.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.68346875,"end":225.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.18534375000002,"end":227.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.21909375,"end":227.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.97409375,"end":229.54784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.33659375000002,"end":231.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.12534375,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.14534375000002,"end":264.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.89159375000003,"end":244.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.43534375000002,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.54909375000003,"end":248.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.17096875000004,"end":271.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.29221875,"end":275.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.78534375000004,"end":279.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.00846875,"end":280.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.12659375000004,"end":285.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.15159375,"end":281.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.85971875,"end":287.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.13784375,"end":289.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.96034375,"end":290.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.12471875,"end":292.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.12034375,"end":292.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.67721875,"end":298.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":297.43596875000003,"end":299.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.44409375000004,"end":303.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.54534375000003,"end":299.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.82346875,"end":302.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.34221875000003,"end":327.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.38471875000005,"end":334.98284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.55284375,"end":334.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.98284375000003,"end":347.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.82909375,"end":356.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.85846875000004,"end":349.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.32221875000005,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.24971875,"end":363.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.65346875,"end":368.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.00284375,"end":393.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.98971875,"end":372.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.40721875,"end":374.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":379.09409375,"end":379.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.74784375,"end":386.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.18159375000005,"end":386.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.07909375,"end":397.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.94346875,"end":398.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.17971875,"end":399.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.37784375,"end":401.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.07784375,"end":403.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.36034375,"end":408.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.81096875000003,"end":411.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.65471875000003,"end":410.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.47721875,"end":411.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.97909375,"end":414.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.65784375000004,"end":426.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.85034375000004,"end":430.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.97659375,"end":429.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.38971875000004,"end":445.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.95721875000004,"end":455.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.20034375,"end":457.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.64721875000004,"end":462.47346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.43596875000003,"end":468.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.76034375,"end":500.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.97034375000004,"end":469.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.02096875,"end":470.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.97846875000005,"end":472.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.99909375000004,"end":510.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.34784375000004,"end":513.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.6384687500001,"end":521.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.96284375,"end":560.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.2153437500001,"end":521.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.2609687500001,"end":527.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":532.70721875,"end":533.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.5715937500001,"end":537.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.43159375,"end":542.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.24971875,"end":544.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.56534375,"end":549.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.09534375,"end":566.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.4665937500001,"end":560.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.51721875,"end":561.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.07409375,"end":561.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.57534375,"end":568.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.59221875,"end":566.6259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.6765937499999,"end":567.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.00971875,"end":568.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.10659375,"end":569.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.1572187500001,"end":574.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.64659375,"end":570.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.19909375,"end":571.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.5322187500001,"end":573.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.5615937499999,"end":581.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.47596875,"end":583.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.4040937500001,"end":582.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":583.46721875,"end":586.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.9184687500001,"end":587.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":586.7409687500001,"end":590.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.51721875,"end":644.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":590.21721875,"end":590.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.71034375,"end":593.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.8115937499999,"end":593.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.96346875,"end":594.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.79846875,"end":597.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.1015937500001,"end":601.4053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.29971875,"end":608.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.88096875,"end":608.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.3659687500001,"end":612.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.1115937500001,"end":656.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.3503437500001,"end":664.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.72159375,"end":657.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.41659375,"end":672.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.7109687500001,"end":695.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.42784375,"end":673.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.4965937500001,"end":717.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":703.4653437500001,"end":705.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.76721875,"end":721.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.12534375,"end":748.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.24721875,"end":749.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.9722187500001,"end":756.5203437499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":2.211,"text":"主委好請邱主委主委好想要請教主委一下我們外配要拿台灣身份證要放棄演國籍我們陸配拿台灣的身份證要放棄國籍嗎"},{"start":21.564,"end":23.866,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":39.27,"end":60.927,"text":"對,因為兩條例並不處理國籍的問題所以大家都聽到說我們陸委會的主委說不用放棄國籍對,取得我們的身份不用放棄國籍對,我們只有處理戶籍的問題是,不放棄國籍嘛,我們外配要放棄國籍嘛就是要強調這個,就是我們外配要放棄國籍,是不是?"},{"start":62.025,"end":66.088,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":90.751,"end":117.299,"text":"原住民的委員會主委一定要是原住民代表才可以當主委,還有族群委員也是要原住民的身份才能當主委。這個主委知道嗎?我沒有這個資訊。沒有這個資訊,你不知道。我們客家人的委員會的主委是不是也是要客家人?是嗎?"},{"start":120.219,"end":137.659,"text":"一般慣例會請客家人、客家身份來當主委,這樣才直接服務自己族群。所以請教我們陸委會的主委,你是代表是陸委會的主委是代表哪一個族群?"},{"start":140.049,"end":155.34,"text":"我想過去擔任陸委會主委並沒有特定的族群沒有特定的族群因為我不懂所以要問你問清楚因為我們的邏輯就是說哪一個族群就是哪一個代表才直接服務嗎"},{"start":156.341,"end":157.682,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":183.083,"end":207.261,"text":"大陸還有港澳,所以我們的工作人員有沒有代表的大陸還是港澳的人員來去協助做協調,有嗎?裡面的工作人員。我們當然作為台灣的公務人員,首先就不能有雙重國籍,一定要放棄中華民國以外的國籍,擔任公職一定是如此的。"},{"start":208.803,"end":212.108,"text":"所以我們外配都要去放棄國籍才能當公職人員或者公務人員但是我們陸配你沒有要求放棄國籍但是你說要求一定要放棄國籍才能考公務人員是這樣嗎?"},{"start":225.236,"end":226.378,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":240.182,"end":242.403,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":265.248,"end":265.648,"text":"大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":291.232,"end":293.113,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":321.246,"end":324.055,"text":"這樣子的已經沒有在那一邊的人員減少只有幾個人但是為何還會就是"},{"start":328.467,"end":336.772,"text":"款類還有就是編列高額的預算都沒有人還要編列這樣子的預算不是沒有人我們有40幾位僱員在那裡仍然在推動管務的正常運作包括我們的文書驗證那個數量搞不好是全球外管最多但是我們看到極有兩位正職其他你說40幾位我們在你們的網站在你們的沒有40幾位當地的僱員"},{"start":357.884,"end":372.552,"text":"他們仍在執行包括核發、簽證、護照包括文書驗證、急難救助這些管務人在推動當中對,但是我們看到報告裡面沒有所以說你講的我們沒有看到"},{"start":373.993,"end":374.974,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":394.136,"end":396.799,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":416.75,"end":422.859,"text":"出國的人數工作的內容是一樣的完全沒有變但是人數增加4個人現在增加了就是11個人所以工作內容差異在哪裡人數出國為什麼要增加"},{"start":431.768,"end":435.21,"text":"跟委員報告,因為過去在疫情,我們的同仁會去港澳我們住處進行各種業務考核,所以我們有安排這個。對啊,但是是去年,今年又沒有疫情,所以你這回答跟這個完全沒有關係。疫情74個,沒有疫情71個,這樣子差異在哪裡?"},{"start":455.282,"end":456.362,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":484.652,"end":492.737,"text":"但是呢我們的工作效率又沒有好但是呢又正在預算又在國際會議裡面的考察活動但是目前我們兩岸關係的問題沒有解決但是呢我們的溝通的效果又在哪裡跟委員報告因為像去年有亞洲航運四大運我們陸委會的文教署有派人前往"},{"start":510.687,"end":519.929,"text":"至於香港辦的相關的教育展,我們也有同仁去代表參加。對,但是我們看到的就是108、109的沒有,110年沒有,112年也沒有。所以呢,我們出國的情形、考察的情形的結果跟效果在哪裡,都沒有報告。"},{"start":534.093,"end":535.214,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":558.63,"end":559.971,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":581.761,"end":582.621,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":602.426,"end":603.286,"text":"因為我從預算看到今年的海基會文書驗證案件比去年減少了3300件"},{"start":627.737,"end":629.257,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":645.262,"end":646.023,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":664.497,"end":691.969,"text":"沒有增加但是我們看到的案件減少但是預算是增加的麥委員你用的資料可能有點出入我給你詳細的資料去年度是暴增前年度只有五萬五千件去年度暴增到一萬件那今年到現在11月還沒結束是八萬三千多件所以從整個長年的趨勢上來看來今年是增加的"},{"start":692.449,"end":693.31,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":711.323,"end":711.863,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":737.476,"end":748.586,"text":"要有書面要有正確的明顯是改善明顯的是有達到我們要做的業務這樣我們才能接受謝謝接下來請劉許廷委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2052,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（9時52分）謝謝主席，有請陸委會主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：麥委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：主委好。想要請教主委一下，我們外配拿臺灣身分證要放棄原國籍，陸配拿臺灣的身分證要放棄國籍嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：依照兩岸條例，陸配拿臺灣的身分證只要放棄對岸的戶籍，當然，也要申請到我們的身分，取得我們的戶籍，才能拿到我們的……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以他們沒有放棄國籍，我們要放棄國籍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，因為兩岸條例並不處理國籍的問題，只有戶籍。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以大家都聽到了，陸委會的主委說不用放棄國籍。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，取得我們的身分不用……"],["麥委員玉珍：放棄國籍。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，我們只有處理戶籍的問題。"],["麥委員玉珍：是，不放棄國籍，我們外配要放棄國籍，就是要強調我們外配要放棄國籍，是不是？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，是，目前是這樣。"],["麥委員玉珍：謝謝。我請教一下，原住民主委是不是原住民？在我們的法律上，原住民的主委是不是一定要是原住民才有資格當主委？是嗎？是不是？"],["邱主任委員垂正：應該沒有這個條件吧。"],["麥委員玉珍：沒有嗎？沒有？原住民族委員會主委一定要是原住民才可以當，還有族群委員也是要原住民的身分才能當，主委知道嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我沒有這個資訊。"],["麥委員玉珍：沒有這個資訊，你不知道？好。我們客家委員會的主委是不是也是要客家人？是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：一般慣例會請客家人、具客家身分的人來擔任這個職務……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，當主委嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：會比較適合。"],["麥委員玉珍：這樣才直接服務，自己族群的人服務自己族群。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以請教陸委會主委，你是陸委會主委，你代表哪個族群？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想過去擔任陸委會主委並沒有特定的族群。"],["麥委員玉珍：沒有特定的族群，好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：只要他沒有雙重國籍就好。"],["麥委員玉珍：因為我不懂，所以要問你、問清楚。我們的邏輯就是哪一個族群就是哪一個代表才是直接服務，是不是？"],["邱主任委員垂正：看部會的屬性。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，所以我就請教一下，我不懂，你當主委，所以要請教你一下。你說其他你不懂，所以你說沒有代表性。我要請教一下，我們在處理兩岸關係，針對主委沒有這樣的規定，但是服務的對象是大陸還有港澳，裡面的工作人員有沒有代表大陸及港澳的人員去協助做協調，有嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然，作為臺灣的公務人員，首先就不能有雙重國籍，一定要放棄中華民國以外的國籍，擔任公職一定是如此的，避免解決……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我們外配都要放棄國籍，才能當公職人員或者公務人員。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是對陸配沒有要求放棄國籍，你說要求一定要放棄國籍，才能考公務人員，是這樣嗎？我們都照法律走，但是我們希望也是要問清楚法律的原則嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，這個是戶籍，在臺灣生活跟放棄國籍是兩回事。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，所以這是兩回事嘛？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你講得很清楚，是兩回事。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們也知道是兩回事，所以我們依法執行、依法辦理。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["麥委員玉珍：如果你說沒有，我再問你，陸委會明年還是編列港澳相關的預算，目前我國在香港、澳門各派幾名公務人員在那邊，我們駐在港澳那邊有幾個人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們現在在香港……"],["麥委員玉珍：港澳。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們的辦事處並沒有我們的公務人員在那裡，都是當地的雇員……"],["麥委員玉珍：對，當地雇員有幾人？"],["邱主任委員垂正：有42位。"],["麥委員玉珍：42位喔？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們看到只有2位是正職人員。"],["邱主任委員垂正：那是在澳門辦事處。"],["麥委員玉珍：對。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們在澳門有2位同仁，其他也都是雇員。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，我們現在各部門已經沒有了，但是我們還是編列港澳的官舍、館舍及停車場租金四千三百多萬，那邊已經人員減少，只有幾個人，但是為何還會循例編列高額的預算？"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指教……"],["麥委員玉珍：都沒有人了，還要編列這樣子的預算。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是沒有人，我們有四十幾位雇員仍然在那裡推動館務的正常運作，包括我們的文書驗證數量搞不好是全球外館最多的其中之一……"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們看到只有2位正職，其他你說四十幾位，我們在你們的網站、書面都沒有看到。"],["邱主任委員垂正：四十幾位當地的雇員他們仍然在執行包括核發簽證、護照，包括文書驗證、急難救助，這些館務仍然在推動當中。"],["麥委員玉珍：對，但是我們看到報告裡面沒有，所以你講的我們沒有看到。如果都編列這樣子不精準，其他預算是不是也誇大預算？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們的租金，我們有租辦公室、官廳……"],["麥委員玉珍：因為去年港澳辦事處協調只派了4個人，書面有看到，派了4個人，工作的內容是一樣的，派了4個人；但是今年派了11個人，工作內容一樣，工作量一樣，，所以增加那麼多人是為什麼？你自己看！"],["邱主任委員垂正：您是說在港澳還是澳門？"],["麥委員玉珍：出國的人數。工作的內容是一樣的，完全沒有變喔，但是出國人數增加，從4個人增加到現在的11個人，所以工作內容差異在哪裡？出國人數為什麼增加？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為過去在疫情時，我們的同仁會去我們港澳的駐處進行各種業務考核，所以我們有安排這個，就是說我們……"],["麥委員玉珍：但那是去年，今年又沒有疫情，所以你的回答跟這個完全沒有關係，疫情去4個，沒有疫情去11個，這樣子的差異在哪裡？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是因為沒有疫情，我們比較能夠去啊！"],["麥委員玉珍：沒有疫情多去玩一點，多人去，不是去處理事情？"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為我們已經沒有公務人員在那邊，我們要去做考察跟業務督導。"],["麥委員玉珍：有疫情少一點人去；沒有疫情多一點人去，這樣子的話會更熱鬧，是這樣子嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是這樣，我們去做必要的業務考察。"],["麥委員玉珍：還有明年出國的預算中，要增加經濟的專題考察，但是這一項兩年多下來，我們在網路上都沒有看到考察的效果是什麼，你們的工作效率又沒有好，但是又增加預算，又有國際會議的考察活動，但是目前我們兩岸關係的問題又沒有解決，所以我們溝通的效果又在哪裡？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為像去年有杭州亞運、世大運，我們陸委會文教處也有派人前往，至於香港辦的相關教育展，我們也有同仁代表參加，畢竟我們現在僑外生來自於香港的最多。"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們看到的是108年，109年沒有；110年沒有；112年也沒有……"],["邱主任委員垂正：那是因為疫情的緣故。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我們出國考察的結果跟效果在哪裡，都沒有報告，相關的資料都沒有，我們任何人出國考察，都是要寫報告的，但是你們都不用寫報告，還要去考察十幾次，包括考察經濟發展或是其他，但是我們兩岸的觀光問題沒有解決，這樣子的考察預算又沒有報告，這樣子是指大家都可以辦出國了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指正，有關於這些考察，都有考察報告……"],["麥委員玉珍：但是我們在網路上都沒有看到啊！還有，就只有108年有，後面到今年都沒有。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為考察的內容有涉及到當事人，或是活動比較敏感，或是我們訪問的人比較敏感。"],["麥委員玉珍：這樣子那麼多年的考察都是敏感、都不用報告？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果委員有問政的需要，在保密的原則下，我們都願意去委員辦公室說明。"],["麥委員玉珍：經濟跟國際發展是敏感嗎？所以怎麼樣促進我們國際的發展呢？怎麼促進我們經濟的發展呢？怎麼促進我們觀光的發展呢？說是敏感，但又沒有達到效果，所以什麼叫做敏感？又要叫做機密了嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，在保密的原則下，我們都願意去委員辦公室說明考察的成果。"],["麥委員玉珍：還有，因為時間的關係，所以這個部分我希望我們要看到真正的結果。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好的，我們願意配合。"],["麥委員玉珍：主席，給我1分鐘，還有最後一題，我想要請教一下，因為我從預算書看到今年海基會文書驗證案件比去年減少了3,300件，服務案件也減少了3萬件，但是預算卻增加了六千四百多萬元，業務減少但是錢又增加，我們的預算是能做多少沒關係，但是歷年之所以增加，是因為業務有增加，若減少則是因為達不成目標，但你們還是可以增加的，是這樣的邏輯嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然不是，海基會在做文書驗證，數量是非常多，而且人力都沒有增加，相關的情形我是不是請……"],["麥委員玉珍：沒有增加，但是我們看到的是案件數量減少而預算是增加的。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：麥委員引用的資料可能有點出入，我給你詳細的資料，去年度是暴增的，前年度只有5萬5,000件，去年度暴增到1萬件，今年到現在11月還沒結束，是八萬三千多件，所以從整個長年的趨勢上來看，今年是增加的。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你這部分的書面在哪裡？因為我們看到你們給我們的書面是沒有的，都是減少的，希望你可以提供一個完整的資料給我。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：沒有問題。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們才能知道你的數量是增加的，你的經費要增加是合理的，而不是你的數量減少那麼多，你的額度、經費又增加那麼多，這個都是人民的血汗錢！"],["羅副董事長文嘉：再跟委員報告，沒有增加，這個引用的數字是錯誤的，我們馬上提供正確資料。"],["麥委員玉珍：除了你剛才說的書面，還有就是要真的把錢花在刀口上，這些請提供我們書面，我們才能為人民把關這個錢，確定這不是亂花，所以不能用說的，而是要有書面的、要有正確的，明顯是有改善、明顯是有達到你們該做的業務，這樣我們才能接受，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請牛煦庭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157749","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157749","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d50a5bda506223c9b1ffdbb9442e4f6ef169037e582a320659671ad967cd14905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"09:49:46 - 10:01:19","影片長度":"00:11:33","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:49:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:01:19+08:00","duration":693,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":10.898468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.809718750000002,"end":12.349718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.547843750000002,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.828468750000003,"end":35.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.704718750000005,"end":41.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.61534375,"end":64.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.54346875,"end":43.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.665343750000005,"end":46.049093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.37534375,"end":68.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.29471875,"end":72.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.58971875,"end":69.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.45846875000001,"end":81.11534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.01096875,"end":76.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.67221875,"end":86.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.32596875,"end":83.84909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.73471875,"end":113.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.09534375000001,"end":101.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.13971875,"end":115.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.30846875,"end":114.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.70909375000001,"end":124.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.15471875000001,"end":128.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.79596875000001,"end":128.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.78721875,"end":132.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.63471875000002,"end":163.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.46409375000002,"end":145.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.54534375,"end":171.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.57784375,"end":180.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.67784375000002,"end":180.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.81284375,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.03221875,"end":181.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.80846875,"end":182.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.82534375,"end":183.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.22159375,"end":203.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.47596875000002,"end":228.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.82221875000002,"end":237.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.57221875000002,"end":240.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.44471875000002,"end":242.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.44034375,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.21534375000002,"end":252.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.96596875000003,"end":254.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.04346875000005,"end":271.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.90284375000005,"end":280.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.17659375,"end":288.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.56846875,"end":290.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.72846875,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.02721875000003,"end":294.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.52034375,"end":307.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.10659375,"end":299.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.73034375000003,"end":304.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.85659375,"end":313.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.49346875000003,"end":309.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.36596875000004,"end":317.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.38659375000003,"end":316.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.73659375,"end":318.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.20471875000004,"end":322.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.50784375,"end":330.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.14471875000004,"end":325.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.63346875,"end":337.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.23659375,"end":331.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.99971875,"end":339.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.02034375,"end":373.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.76596875,"end":394.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.86159375,"end":382.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.46284375000005,"end":462.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.91221875,"end":467.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.78471875,"end":474.31971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.31971875000005,"end":477.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.19721875000005,"end":480.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.10784375000003,"end":480.12471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.12471875000006,"end":480.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.71534375000005,"end":511.83284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.86221875,"end":524.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.1303437500001,"end":529.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.3828437500001,"end":542.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.33846875,"end":543.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.1315937500001,"end":546.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.51971875,"end":544.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.6797187500001,"end":549.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.73034375,"end":547.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.3459687500001,"end":578.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.21471875,"end":583.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.34971875,"end":582.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.46721875,"end":586.2178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.5009687500001,"end":584.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.6653437500001,"end":585.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.3359687500001,"end":595.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.54659375,"end":589.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.3897187499999,"end":595.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.98846875,"end":599.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.54096875,"end":598.0303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.5828437499999,"end":617.7234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.53096875,"end":607.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.6772187500001,"end":676.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.60909375,"end":648.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.5590937500001,"end":670.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.1453437499999,"end":672.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.75284375,"end":674.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.72284375,"end":690.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.3584687500002,"end":688.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.9865937500001,"end":689.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.9609687500001,"end":691.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.2265937500001,"end":693.3234687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.829,"end":10.433,"text":"同屬教育委員會的教育部文化部也都傳出有霸凌案件正在進行調查想先請教一下院長您這邊有沒有接獲相關霸凌案件的投訴"},{"start":13.604,"end":35.069,"text":"故宮其實故宮其實也有故宮的話就是說依照那個人事室給我的資料的話109年有一件然後這個申訴原件申訴主席院長我問的是在這個事件爆發之後是不是有新的接獲的霸凌案件的投訴有或沒有"},{"start":36.1,"end":63.849,"text":"現在的話就今年以今年來講的話就8月份有一個投訴案所以霸凌案傳出來以後你們都沒有接獲新的嗎?因為我們的理解日前行政院一聲令下要求相關部會甚至回溯期有的到10年有關霸凌的案件都可以再提出那假設故宮院內有人反映霸凌的情形你理論上應該已經開始要接獲要積極處理了所以你們目前都沒有接獲新的案件"},{"start":64.749,"end":85.884,"text":"目前調查中的有一件有沒有新接獲的案件在勞動部霸凌事件之後你現在都不回答那你之後如果有案件完全沒有嗎所以故宮這個那您剛剛說還有一個調查的案件什麼時候會出爐現在在處理中九月份也是在這個事件之前"},{"start":86.806,"end":112.913,"text":"我想故宮的情況比較特殊啦過去有一些特殊文化那也有一些這個同仁的一些狀況我想院長應該要小心的針對這個情況來做內部的了解好不好沒有不代表真的沒有目前行政院傳出來每一個部會都在做內部的了解是故宮真的特別和平嗎?您有這樣的信心嗎?您有這樣的信心之後就是你們這邊都是零件嗎?"},{"start":114.214,"end":124.352,"text":"你可以這樣保證嗎?基本上來講申訴有就是那個霸凌他有他的定義然後申訴有他的管道目前來講正式提出的管道是沒有"},{"start":128.07,"end":151.556,"text":"但是對同人的關懷這個事情我們都持續在記錄我想針對內部針對這個霸凌案件不管是過去調查中的還是未來你們現在是零件的這件事情希望你們有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了解好不好謝謝我想今天是114年度預算的答詢我想我們想要了解的是這個收購文物的部分"},{"start":152.136,"end":170.867,"text":"依據故宮文物藝術發展基金的第五條故宮收購文物的基金來源就是故宮益發基金請教院長您知道最近一次收購文物是在哪一年嗎故宮最近收購文物的話是在幾年前在疫情之前"},{"start":172.802,"end":183.398,"text":"110年度中央政府總預算今年還剩下不到一個月就結束了據院長瞭解故宮今年有沒有構藏任何一件文物故宮沒有而且因為我們沒有編列預算"},{"start":186.442,"end":202.687,"text":"姑宮連續四年沒有收購任何文物,但過去有沒有收購?有喔!先前故宮後來每年從藝發基金拿出一筆錢等著要買文物,全世界的"},{"start":204.779,"end":225.815,"text":"這個博物館、美術館這本來就是一個很正常的事情結果呢故宮最後都把這筆權原封不動的再放回去現在居然連購藏文物的預算直接懶得編請教一下院長近幾年沒有購藏文物的原因是什麼是不是打算要放棄以收購的方式來取得文物都叫大家用捐的啊用愛啊這個什麼可不可以解釋一下"},{"start":228.831,"end":229.371,"text":"委員長,我們時間有限,我問的是113、114都是0嘛"},{"start":241.459,"end":259.667,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":259.667,"end":279.155,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":279.255,"end":281.137,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":300.675,"end":301.715,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":323.544,"end":339.694,"text":"因為這個部分的話如果真的有好的物件我們可以用基金因為基金本來就有這樣的功能所以不用先編是不是到時候想花多少就直接挪多少嗎也不是這個樣子但是基金它就有一個彈性的調整功能這是一個態度"},{"start":340.614,"end":360.127,"text":"根據你們的作業要點其實你們本來就應該要預先編列這個預算而且確實你們需要經過很多的審查而且這個審查在故宮裡面特別特別不一樣你們是實務審查我當然理解這是小心為上但是其實這就全球的這個趨勢來講也非常特別"},{"start":363.029,"end":368.412,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。"},{"start":391.207,"end":414.486,"text":"我們才重啟預算編列,也是後年。好,沒關係,謝謝院長願意負責。為什麼?因為其實院內的人力雖然大家都很辛苦,但是我想大家就是要各自負責不同的工作,這才是一個團隊。你不能說我現在處理手上的事了,其他的事情我們過去有做了我現在就不做了。"},{"start":415.046,"end":421.108,"text":"其實有很多構藏的機制我也希望院長可以考慮除了編列預算這是重中之重還是要提前來討論之外其實還有更多彈性的構藏的方法主動出擊你說你都買不起那看你是從哪些管道去買現在巴塞爾藝術展的年報都已經講了"},{"start":435.692,"end":462.518,"text":"現在有非常多的博物館、美術館都開始用線上購藏的方式你可以事先去看預展你可以瞭解這個產品之後用線上購買的方式來作業所以我想因數位時代來臨請問院長能不能請故宮研議去讓展品購藏的相關辦法更加的主動、積極、更有彈性這是我們這一屆的行政院的標語嘛是不是"},{"start":462.858,"end":462.998,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":480.992,"end":481.352,"text":"目前故宮編列了18億"},{"start":496.946,"end":523.259,"text":"展品出現的機率其實很低,圖書文獻類到113年度的展示率是0.094%那你們有編列了將近20億,北區重建計畫編列9.1億請教院長,你們擴建完成以後預計可以增加多少的展示空間或者我們就數據化的來了解,各類文物的展示率有沒有辦法提高到10%"},{"start":525.391,"end":542.64,"text":"公務員報告沒有辦法,為什麼沒有辦法?因為基本上來講北院擴建跟南院擴建的話都增加200平方米但是所謂的博物館的展示力並不是所有的同學都可以上運動場去跑百米"},{"start":543.45,"end":558.503,"text":"所以在文物裡面有一些是研究用的對不起院長我打斷您現在國際的趨勢不是要跑步就一定要上場跑百米也可以在室內運動場練習給您了解一下啦我想故宮您作為一個國際型的博物館我們眼睛要張開放眼未來要購藏產品"},{"start":567.27,"end":589.681,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":595.964,"end":617.756,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":617.816,"end":643.236,"text":"我想我希望您可以放寬心胸瞭解世界上的趨勢往前看現在已經有非常多的地方做開放庫房庫房可以用玻璃圍牆可以用各種方式讓產品非常好的存放在那個地方但是又可以讓民眾看到這個我想當然您又提到open data又提到數位的方式我現在手上拿的這個vision pro"},{"start":645.477,"end":658.451,"text":"現在新的設備台灣好不容易可以預購了12月17號要出現了戴上它你可以看到虛擬的文物我想故宮在這裡院長接下來這是一個關鍵期"},{"start":662.155,"end":668.981,"text":"議員提到,我們應該要有更多的方式來模擬、來看這些展品,是不是院長可以承諾來進行內部的討論?"},{"start":677.47,"end":687.439,"text":"五月請我們主任去荷蘭路特丹的曼斯博物館,它就是一個完整的開放庫房。另外館長今天下午會在庫房演講。謝謝葛如君委員。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":597,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時49分）謝謝主席，有請故宮蕭宗煌院長。"],["主席（萬委員美玲）：有請蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：葛委員早。"],["葛委員如鈞：早。院長，我們要關心同仁，最近各部會紛紛爆出霸凌案件，野火燎原，同屬教文委員會的教育部、文化部也都傳出有霸凌案件正在進行調查，我想先請教院長，您這邊有沒有接獲相關霸凌案件的投訴？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮其實也有，故宮依照人事室給我的資料，在109年有1件研究員申訴……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，院長，我問的是在這個事件爆發之後是不是有新接獲霸凌案件的投訴，有或沒有？"],["蕭院長宗煌：以今年來講的話，在8月份有一個投訴案，已經結案了。"],["葛委員如鈞：在這個霸凌案傳出來以後，你們都沒有接獲新的嗎？因為以我們的理解，日前行政院一聲令下要求相關部會，甚至回溯期有的到10年，有關霸凌的案件都可以再提出，假設故宮院內有人反映霸凌的情形，你理論上應該已經開始要接獲、要積極處理了，所以你們目前都沒有接獲新的案件，是嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前調查中的有1件，但是這個是……"],["葛委員如鈞：在勞動部霸凌事件之後，你們有沒有新接獲的案件？你現在都不回答，那你之後如果有案件……"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有、沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：完全沒有嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：那您剛剛說還有一個調查案件，什麼時候會出爐？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在在處理中，它是9月份，也是在這個事件之前。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想故宮的情況比較特殊，在過去有一些特殊文化，一些同仁也有一些狀況，我想院長應該要小心的針對這個情況來做內部的了解，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有爆出來並不代表真的沒有，目前行政院傳出來每一個部會都在做內部的了解，是故宮真的特別和平嗎？您有這樣的信心嗎？你有信心之後你們這邊都是0件嗎？你可以這樣保證嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，霸凌有它的定義，然後有申訴的管道，以目前來講，循正式管道提出的是沒有，但是對於同仁的……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，關於霸凌的定義，故宮會不一樣嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對於同仁的關懷的這個事情，我們都持續在進行。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想內部針對霸凌案件，不管是過去調查中的還是你們現在是0件的這件事情，希望你們有一些相關的資訊可以提供給本席了解，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝。今天是114年度預算的答詢，我們想要了解的是收購文物的部分，依據故宮文物藝術發展基金收支保管及運用辦法的第五條，故宮收購文物的基金來源就是故宮藝發基金，請教院長，您知道最近一次收購文物是在哪一年嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：最近收購文物是在幾年前，是在疫情之前，在110年。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，在110年。今年還剩下不到1個月就結束了，據院長了解，故宮今年有沒有購藏任何一件文物？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮沒有，因為我們沒有編列預算。"],["葛委員如鈞：對啊！這個很奇怪，故宮到今年年底如果沒有的話，就已經連續4年沒有收購任何的文物，在過去有沒有收購？有喔！故宮後來每年從藝發基金拿出一筆錢等著要買文物，在全世界的博物館、美術館，這本來就是一個很正常的事情，結果故宮最後都把這筆錢原封不動的再放回去，現在居然連購藏文物的預算都直接懶得編，請教院長，近幾年沒有購藏文物的原因是什麼？是不是打算要放棄以收購的方式來取得文物？都叫大家用捐的啊！用愛啊！這個可不可以解釋一下？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，在表列的話，我們當然110年……"],["葛委員如鈞：院長，我們時間有限，我問的是在113年、114年都是0嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為前面在疫情期間的話，編列預算收購的文物要經過國際的委員來審閱，那這個部分……"],["葛委員如鈞：院長，現在疫情已經結束了！"],["蕭院長宗煌：在疫情結束之後，目前以故宮來講，在我就任以後，我認為去整理、盤點過去故宮文物要整理、要修復或是寄藏、入藏、捐贈的部分，這個比編列文物購藏的經費重要。我跟委員報告一下，現在所編的錢，如果在國際市場上有文物是故宮屬意的，故宮買不起。"],["葛委員如鈞：那你之前就買得起，現在就買不起，突然暴漲了是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為那個文物基本上來講……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，院長，我必須打斷你，故宮是一個大院，不是一次只可以做一件事……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道。"],["葛委員如鈞：你不只往前看，往現在看，也可以往未來看嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我跟委員說明一下，天天來兜售文物的很多……"],["葛委員如鈞：不是兜售……"],["蕭院長宗煌：可是這個東西好跟不好……"],["葛委員如鈞：你們要主動購藏啊！你連預算都沒有編，你現在跟我講有人來兜售！"],["蕭院長宗煌：如果要主動購藏的話，我們看中意的，用這個預算基本上是買不起。"],["葛委員如鈞：那你如果看到買得起的，你沒有預算可以買啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：在這個部分的話，如果真的有好的物件，我們可以用基金，因為基金本來就有這樣的功能。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以不用先編是不是？到時候想花多少就直接挪多少嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是這個樣子……"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：但是基金就有一個彈性的調整功能……"],["葛委員如鈞：抱歉！院長，這是一個態度。根據你們的作業要點，其實你們本來就應該要預先編列這個預算，而且確實你們需要經過很多的審查，而且這個審查在故宮裡面特別不一樣，你們是實物審查，我當然理解這是小心為上，但是其實就全球的這個趨勢來講也非常特別，如果是主動購藏，你可以去那裡看，你不一定要人家送過來，這個其實叫做什麼呢？就是貨到你還不一定付款，所以我想跟院長分享，其實……"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，這3年不編預算是我的主意，我願意負責，因為我去衡量目前整個故宮的狀況，我對整個文物盤點，然後把該修復的、該釐清的捐贈、寄藏的這個部分通通審過了之後，我們才重啟預算編列，也許是後年。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒關係，謝謝院長願意負責，為什麼？因為院內人員雖然都很辛苦，但是我想大家就是要各自負責不同的工作，這才是一個團隊，你不能說我現在處理手上的事了，其他我們過去有做的事情，我現在就不做了，其實有很多購藏的機制，我也希望院長可以考慮，除了編列預算，這是重中之重，還是要提前來討論之外，其實還有更多彈性的購藏方法，可以主動出擊，你說你都買不起，那要看你是從哪些管道去買嘛！現在巴塞爾藝術展的年報都已經講了，現在有非常多的博物館、美術館都開始用線上購藏的方式，你可以事先去看預展，你可以了解這個產品，之後用線上購買的方式來作業。因應數位時代的來臨，請問院長能不能請故宮研議讓展品購藏的相關辦法更加的主動積極、更有彈性？這是我們這一屆行政院的標語嘛！是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，所謂遠端的購買，這個事情早就有了，國際拍賣市場用電話都可以直接去買。"],["葛委員如鈞：對，你們現在是沒有預算，也沒有去買。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，所以用數位的話，那當然更沒有問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。對不起，我爭取一點時間，就是馬上新年又要到了，故宮每每被詬病文物展示率偏低，我想要請教，目前故宮編列了18億，但藏品出現的機率其實很低，圖書文獻類到113年度的展示率是0.094%，你們的預算編列了將近20億，北區重建計畫就編列9.1億，請教院長，你們擴建完成以後，預計可以增加多少展示空間？或者我們就數據化的來了解，各類文物的展示率有沒有辦法提高到10%？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，沒有辦法！為什麼沒有辦法？因為基本上來講，北院擴建跟南院擴建都增加200平方米，但是所謂的博物館展示率，並不是所有同學都可以上運動場去跑百米，所以在文物裡面有一些是研究用的……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，院長，我打斷您。現在國際的趨勢，不是要跑步就一定要上場跑百米……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道……"],["葛委員如鈞：也可以在室內運動場練習，給您了解一下。我想，故宮作為一個國際型的博物館，我們眼睛要張開，放眼未來，要購置藏品，也要了解全世界的博物館如何處理藏品展示率過低的問題。美國布魯克林博物館要規範……這個其實都是所謂的開放……"],["蕭院長宗煌：開放博物館。"],["葛委員如鈞：開放式庫房。"],["蕭院長宗煌：開放式庫房，故宮南院現在就要做。"],["葛委員如鈞：我剛剛就問你有沒有要增加嘛？你新建的案子有開放式庫房嗎？比例會增加多少？"],["蕭院長宗煌：南院的話，基本上來講……"],["葛委員如鈞：你剛剛跟我講，抱歉，做不到！一定要上場跑步，不用每一個藏品都要上場跑步。"],["蕭院長宗煌：所以開放式的庫房並不是庫房開放讓大家進去，因為它的環境、空調、溫度、溼度都有一定的限制，當然沒有錯，透過數位展示，可以把所有產品以Open Data方式讓所有民眾都可以看到東西，這是一個也很有效的方法。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長，我希望您可以放寬心胸，了解世界上的趨勢，往前看，現在已經有非常多的地方做開放庫房，庫房可以用玻璃圍牆，可以用各種方式，讓藏品非常好的存放在那個地方，但是又可以讓民眾看到。當然您又提到Open Data、又提到數位的方式，我現在手上拿的這個Vision Pro，現在新的設備臺灣好不容易可以預購了，12月17號要出現了，戴上它你可以看到虛擬的文物，我想院長在這裡，故宮接下來是一個關鍵期，柯志恩委員剛剛也提到了，我們應該要有更多的方式來模擬、來看這些藏品，是不是院長可以承諾進行內部的討論？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告……"],["主席：院長，是不是會後再跟委員講就好了？"],["蕭院長宗煌：30秒。5月我請我們主秘去荷蘭鹿特丹的博伊曼斯博物館，它就是一個完整的開放庫房，另外，館長今天下午……"],["主席：院長，請你會後再備詳細的資料跟委員說明跟報告。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員。","接下來我們有請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157748","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157748","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836048cd605338ba51832ad4098cec3b17fdf169037e582a320642d906fa9f5dffe95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"09:41:29 - 09:59:47","影片長度":"00:18:18","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:41:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:59:47+08:00","duration":1098,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":7.472843750000001,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.68721875,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.99034375,"end":21.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.563468750000002,"end":21.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.59721875,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":21.63096875,"end":25.309718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.64784375,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.84596875,"end":23.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.984718750000003,"end":28.566593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.106593750000002,"end":37.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.140343750000003,"end":29.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.60846875,"end":31.637843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.941593750000003,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":37.84784375,"end":43.315343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.821593750000005,"end":45.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.08284375,"end":49.727843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.398468750000006,"end":52.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.76096875,"end":54.908468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.07721875,"end":57.844718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.87409375,"end":60.274718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.98346875,"end":61.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.23221875,"end":64.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.89409375000001,"end":68.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.14659375000001,"end":71.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.26034375,"end":73.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.39909375,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.96409375,"end":77.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.02284375,"end":79.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.07346875,"end":79.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.12409375,"end":79.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.20846875000001,"end":81.90846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.35971875,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.36346875000001,"end":91.81409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":93.50159375000001,"end":95.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.45034375,"end":98.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.06596875000001,"end":100.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.90971875000001,"end":101.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.89659375000001,"end":107.00159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.64284375000001,"end":109.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.83221875000001,"end":112.48596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":113.04284375,"end":116.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.32909375000001,"end":119.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.53971875,"end":121.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.78409375000001,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.45909375000001,"end":123.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.69096875000001,"end":131.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.95971875,"end":132.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.51659375,"end":133.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.30971875,"end":134.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.45721875,"end":136.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":136.65096875,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.88659375,"end":140.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.92034375,"end":141.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.37596875,"end":141.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":142.13534375,"end":143.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":143.73846875,"end":144.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":144.97034375,"end":145.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.33721875,"end":146.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.79284375,"end":148.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.98659375,"end":151.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.62346875,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.69909375,"end":152.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.98596875,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.07034375,"end":153.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.12096875,"end":153.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.57659375,"end":153.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.96471875,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.69034375,"end":156.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.56346875,"end":157.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.57159375,"end":159.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.46971875,"end":163.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.93784375,"end":165.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":166.65471875,"end":167.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.54909375,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.49409375000002,"end":168.93284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.42221875,"end":169.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.96221875,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.06346875,"end":175.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.80096875,"end":178.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.37846875000002,"end":180.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.72409375,"end":182.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.96846875,"end":186.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.42784375000002,"end":190.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":190.60034375,"end":191.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.66346875000002,"end":191.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.68034375000002,"end":191.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":191.73096875000002,"end":195.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.19846875000002,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.01221875000002,"end":203.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.10034375,"end":209.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.71096875,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.74034375000002,"end":216.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.85784375,"end":219.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.69284375,"end":222.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.91596875000002,"end":223.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.02971875,"end":224.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":225.00846875000002,"end":228.68721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":229.24409375000002,"end":230.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.60659375,"end":232.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.68659375000001,"end":233.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.35721875000002,"end":234.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.86346875,"end":235.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.99409375000002,"end":236.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.27659375000002,"end":241.90034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.38971875000001,"end":245.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.22471875000002,"end":249.56159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.84846875000002,"end":251.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.77221875,"end":252.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.03784375,"end":254.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.65784375,"end":255.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.15971875,"end":256.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.08784375,"end":257.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.96096875,"end":259.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.76659375,"end":261.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.23909375,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":263.11221875,"end":265.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.11596875000004,"end":267.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.90471875000003,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.18721875,"end":270.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.43159375,"end":273.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.52409375,"end":274.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.63784375,"end":274.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.16096875,"end":276.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":278.36721875,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":279.81846875,"end":280.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.72971875,"end":281.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.45534375,"end":282.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.46346875,"end":283.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":285.45471875000004,"end":286.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.40784375000004,"end":289.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":289.96034375,"end":290.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.40284375000005,"end":294.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.61784375,"end":297.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.95909375,"end":298.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.64659375,"end":301.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.43534375,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":302.98784375,"end":304.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":304.60784375000003,"end":307.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":308.69159375000004,"end":309.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.19346875,"end":311.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.23534375,"end":313.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.87221875,"end":314.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.25596875,"end":316.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.15034375000005,"end":316.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.24721875,"end":318.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.24284375,"end":319.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.08659375,"end":322.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.95096875,"end":326.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.60846875000004,"end":328.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.56596875,"end":330.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.00034375,"end":334.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.05034375,"end":336.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.19346875,"end":338.57721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.35346875000005,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.98596875000004,"end":342.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.35284375000003,"end":344.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.22596875000005,"end":347.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":348.80346875000004,"end":350.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.36846875000003,"end":352.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.17846875000004,"end":352.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.85346875000005,"end":354.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.29596875000004,"end":357.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.32096875,"end":358.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":358.91159375,"end":361.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.74659375000005,"end":363.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":363.31596875,"end":365.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.18471875,"end":369.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":369.86346875000004,"end":370.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.33159375,"end":372.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.28909375,"end":374.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.50409375000004,"end":375.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.73159375,"end":379.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.75221875,"end":381.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":381.55784375,"end":384.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.73034375000003,"end":386.11409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":386.41784375000003,"end":387.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.47221875,"end":389.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.23159375,"end":390.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":391.31159375000004,"end":392.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.79659375,"end":394.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.82159375000003,"end":396.40784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.20096875,"end":399.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.35659375,"end":402.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.59221875000003,"end":404.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.96346875,"end":404.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.99721875,"end":405.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.01409375000003,"end":405.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":405.79034375000003,"end":405.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.82409375000003,"end":408.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":408.23721875,"end":409.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.44784375,"end":410.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":410.46471875000003,"end":410.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":410.95409375,"end":412.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":412.72596875000005,"end":423.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.22221875,"end":428.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.47034375000004,"end":429.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.68534375,"end":430.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.71471875000003,"end":433.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.15721875,"end":437.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.64596875,"end":438.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.16909375,"end":439.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.29971875,"end":442.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.13471875000005,"end":443.94471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.70409375,"end":445.98659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.36596875000004,"end":449.00721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.56409375000004,"end":449.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":451.53846875000005,"end":452.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.65659375,"end":453.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.24284375,"end":454.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.06534375,"end":457.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.29284375000003,"end":458.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.92534375,"end":460.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.97159375,"end":462.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.23284375000003,"end":463.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":464.38034375,"end":465.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.60346875000005,"end":468.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":468.46409375,"end":469.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.59471875,"end":469.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.98284375000003,"end":471.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":471.61971875,"end":471.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.24409375000005,"end":475.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.24346875000003,"end":476.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":477.22221875,"end":477.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.01534375000006,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":482.68971875000005,"end":484.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.64284375000005,"end":487.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.20784375000005,"end":489.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.69284375,"end":490.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":492.64596875,"end":495.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.63284375,"end":497.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.80096875000004,"end":500.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.39159375,"end":501.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":502.29846875000004,"end":503.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.95221875000004,"end":504.59346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.65659375,"end":507.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.75784375,"end":506.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.52534375000005,"end":512.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.0690937500001,"end":514.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.11096875,"end":514.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.4653437500001,"end":514.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.66784375,"end":533.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.8447187500001,"end":517.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.1272187500001,"end":519.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.9622187500001,"end":521.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":524.79284375,"end":526.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.1628437500001,"end":536.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.4153437500001,"end":543.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.4522187499999,"end":550.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.3372187500001,"end":552.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":552.80534375,"end":554.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":554.9653437500001,"end":556.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.4965937500001,"end":558.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":558.57659375,"end":559.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.0990937500001,"end":564.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.9722187500001,"end":566.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.55846875,"end":568.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.82784375,"end":571.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.07659375,"end":572.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":572.31284375,"end":573.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.6965937500001,"end":574.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.7934687500001,"end":575.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.7890937500001,"end":576.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":577.3078437500001,"end":578.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.0672187499999,"end":578.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":579.0122187500001,"end":579.7547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.2609687500001,"end":584.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.3234687500001,"end":587.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":587.21346875,"end":590.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.35221875,"end":591.5672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.3603437500001,"end":593.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.74409375,"end":594.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.12346875,"end":598.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.2959687499999,"end":603.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.0209687500001,"end":605.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.82659375,"end":610.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.29409375,"end":615.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.22159375,"end":617.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.0947187500001,"end":619.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":619.46159375,"end":621.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.1572187500001,"end":624.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.76034375,"end":624.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.8740937499999,"end":627.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.42221875,"end":630.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.85221875,"end":633.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":634.04159375,"end":635.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.75846875,"end":638.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":639.4753437500001,"end":639.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.68159375,"end":643.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":644.08221875,"end":646.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":646.0903437500001,"end":646.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.42346875,"end":648.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.2122187500001,"end":651.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":652.08096875,"end":661.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":661.7334687500002,"end":664.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":666.42471875,"end":668.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":666.4922187500001,"end":666.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.21346875,"end":668.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.93909375,"end":668.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":668.97284375,"end":668.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.9897187500001,"end":669.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.78284375,"end":669.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":669.79971875,"end":669.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":669.96846875,"end":670.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":670.0359687499999,"end":670.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":670.9640937500001,"end":671.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":671.04846875,"end":671.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.45346875,"end":672.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.1072187500001,"end":674.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.60909375,"end":675.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.1784687500001,"end":679.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.07659375,"end":680.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.8190937500001,"end":685.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.94909375,"end":686.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.3372187500001,"end":687.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.8728437500001,"end":690.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.43346875,"end":691.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":692.32784375,"end":694.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.21346875,"end":696.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":696.95159375,"end":699.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.9722187500001,"end":700.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.8159687500001,"end":703.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.14034375,"end":706.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":705.94596875,"end":708.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.44346875,"end":708.5615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.5615937500002,"end":708.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.57846875,"end":708.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.62909375,"end":708.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":709.60784375,"end":714.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":715.1259687500001,"end":715.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":717.6572187500001,"end":718.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.87221875,"end":720.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":720.7622187500001,"end":723.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.25971875,"end":724.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.35221875,"end":729.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.43596875,"end":734.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.92471875,"end":738.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.2153437500001,"end":739.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.4934687500001,"end":741.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.96596875,"end":742.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":742.0247187500001,"end":742.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":743.77971875,"end":747.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":747.99846875,"end":751.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.5422187500001,"end":760.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":761.17784375,"end":765.9365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":766.12221875,"end":767.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":767.7253437500001,"end":768.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":768.82221875,"end":769.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.8347187500001,"end":771.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.8259687500001,"end":772.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":772.7709687500001,"end":773.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":773.9522187500002,"end":775.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":775.38659375,"end":776.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.7322187500001,"end":778.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":780.07784375,"end":781.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":781.57971875,"end":787.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":788.49846875,"end":792.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":792.8859687500001,"end":794.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":795.53534375,"end":797.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.4040937500001,"end":798.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.99471875,"end":800.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":801.5090937500001,"end":802.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":803.3147187500001,"end":807.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.8034687500001,"end":821.1515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.4890937500002,"end":823.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":825.1172187500001,"end":825.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":827.42909375,"end":831.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":832.4409687500001,"end":837.6047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":837.9422187500002,"end":841.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.38471875,"end":842.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.6797187500001,"end":853.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.42221875,"end":844.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":844.57409375,"end":844.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":844.9622187500001,"end":845.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":849.34971875,"end":849.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.4797187500001,"end":857.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.7197187500001,"end":862.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":860.6897187500001,"end":862.6809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.6809687500001,"end":862.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.9678437500002,"end":868.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":868.4353437500001,"end":874.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.29096875,"end":874.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.2865937500001,"end":875.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":875.97846875,"end":879.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.0834687500001,"end":879.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":879.72471875,"end":879.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.9272187500001,"end":879.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":879.9778437500001,"end":881.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.02846875,"end":892.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.99846875,"end":883.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":890.2547187500002,"end":891.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":891.84096875,"end":892.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.1909687500001,"end":893.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.33846875,"end":894.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.06409375,"end":896.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.02159375,"end":898.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.9284687500001,"end":904.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":903.51846875,"end":905.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":905.22284375,"end":905.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":905.62784375,"end":917.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":918.26721875,"end":920.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":918.3347187500001,"end":926.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":924.7978437500001,"end":924.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.3334687500001,"end":926.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.97471875,"end":927.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":927.8859687500001,"end":929.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":928.3247187500001,"end":932.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":933.3872187500001,"end":934.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":934.5347187500001,"end":935.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":937.11659375,"end":937.8759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":938.70284375,"end":942.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":943.17471875,"end":944.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":945.84096875,"end":947.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":949.46909375,"end":952.9453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":949.51971875,"end":950.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":952.0678437500001,"end":954.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":956.3540937500002,"end":958.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":959.5265937500001,"end":960.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":960.89346875,"end":961.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":961.16346875,"end":961.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":961.61909375,"end":962.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":963.3403437500001,"end":965.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":966.6984687500001,"end":969.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":970.30971875,"end":970.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":970.9678437500002,"end":972.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":972.7565937500001,"end":974.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":973.38096875,"end":976.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":974.7647187500002,"end":976.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":976.48596875,"end":978.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":977.92034375,"end":978.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":978.3928437500001,"end":980.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":981.54846875,"end":984.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":984.09659375,"end":987.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":987.6572187500001,"end":989.5303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":989.8003437500001,"end":990.5259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":991.0828437500002,"end":991.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":992.5678437500001,"end":993.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":993.76596875,"end":994.8459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":995.1665937500002,"end":999.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1000.53284375,"end":1001.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1001.1909687500001,"end":1001.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1001.96721875,"end":1002.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1002.0515937500002,"end":1005.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1006.2703437500002,"end":1007.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1007.8059687500001,"end":1009.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1009.9153437500001,"end":1011.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1011.9740937500001,"end":1012.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1014.9272187500001,"end":1017.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1018.9265937500002,"end":1019.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1019.83784375,"end":1020.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1021.2553437500001,"end":1021.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1022.62221875,"end":1023.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1023.5165937500001,"end":1025.1197187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1025.1197187500002,"end":1026.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1027.4822187500001,"end":1028.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1028.1065937500002,"end":1030.0472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1030.82346875,"end":1032.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1033.75971875,"end":1035.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1036.57784375,"end":1037.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1038.3328437500002,"end":1039.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1039.83471875,"end":1042.2984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1042.60221875,"end":1044.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1044.9647187500002,"end":1050.5672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1050.95534375,"end":1052.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1053.2840937500002,"end":1058.68409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1058.95409375,"end":1060.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1060.21971875,"end":1060.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1060.74284375,"end":1060.8609687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1060.8609687500002,"end":1062.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1061.19846875,"end":1068.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1068.1340937500001,"end":1069.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1069.92284375,"end":1077.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1076.82471875,"end":1077.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1077.8372187500001,"end":1078.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1078.4278437500002,"end":1088.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1084.1653437500001,"end":1084.8909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1086.35909375,"end":1086.7472187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1087.8440937500002,"end":1087.8778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.2447187500002,"end":1089.2615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1089.2615937500002,"end":1089.2784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.2784687500002,"end":1089.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1089.29534375,"end":1089.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.43034375,"end":1089.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1089.46409375,"end":1089.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1089.5147187500002,"end":1089.5484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1089.5484687500002,"end":1090.3753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1090.3753437500002,"end":1090.6622187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1090.6622187500002,"end":1090.6790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1092.28221875,"end":1095.4209687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.609,"end":27.53,"text":"主席,在場的委員先進,列席了政府機關組長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者,你是先生。主席,我可以先請副秘書長,但是我要先瞭解他哪些部分可以取代秘書長,再請其他可以幫忙的人上來,可以嗎?先請副秘書長,好不好?麻煩副秘書長我來問一下啦,然後我再決定要請誰來協助他,因為"},{"start":29.198,"end":57.215,"text":"所以你的意思是說時間先不要動嗎?那我們時間先不要動。副秘書長,因為抱歉喔,如果今天是秘書長的話,那我就可以很放心。那我必須詢問一下你對於法規的選手才決定邀請哪些主管來協助你好嗎?你對中華民國憲法熟悉嗎?熟讀啦齁?基本上熟悉。好,針對他們熟讀吧?立法院主治法熟悉吧?有閱讀過。立法院職權刑事法如果不了解的話你會問誰?"},{"start":58.919,"end":81.545,"text":"法治局還是議事處那議事規則不熟悉你會問誰議事處好議事規則你熟嗎目前在熟悉當中那直宣刑事法剛修過你熟嗎因為修了很多啦我熟悉的是比較舊的比較舊的新的你要適應那立法院各委員會主支法你熟嗎"},{"start":83.533,"end":85.634,"text":"你認為立法院存在的目的這個組織主要目的根據組織法第二條目的是什麼?"},{"start":110.902,"end":138.32,"text":"是不是要協助立法委員來問政行使憲法的職權是不是你不用看法條我就告訴你了立法院組織法立法委員行使職權嘛那立法委員就來開會嘛你認為立法院組織法存在就是要讓我們立法院來開會你認為民主國家的軍隊可以阻止國會議員到立法院開會嗎到國會開會嗎可不可以基本上不行不行好那我們憲法規定啊我們中華民國憲法總統可不可以宣布戒嚴"},{"start":140.916,"end":158.768,"text":"可以可以但是要怎麼樣是不是要經過立法院的通過或追認是那沒有通過或追認有沒有效基本上呃無現法第39條你首讀嘛對不對對好那麼正確條文認為總統在戒嚴的時候可以解散國會嗎不可以嘛這直接回答顯然你不太熟喔顯然不太熟喔不可以對不對"},{"start":169.508,"end":194.571,"text":"所以如果在臺灣我們根據中華民國憲法根據統統要宣布戒嚴要經過國會同意而且在這段時間不能解散國會要維持國會的運作是不是這樣那戒嚴法第11條什麼時候我們可以宣布戒嚴要有戰爭或叛亂發生嘛對不對而且如果在一個月內提交立法院追認嘛是不是所以今天我們昨天看到一個情況你認為在臺灣可不可能發生"},{"start":197.273,"end":199.835,"text":"請問議事處跟法制局的分別執掌 剛剛問過了齁 那麼"},{"start":224.076,"end":233.523,"text":"法治局他是根據什麼?議事處是負責什麼?議事的事項對不對?法治局是法治的諮詢你確定嗎?好來往下看"},{"start":234.397,"end":262.357,"text":"那往下看所以我們在發生了所謂的要成立院會要成立國發基金調查委員會他在11月20號院會決議要成立到他的委員會11月27號名單送議事處那12月2號我們提示開會選召委那時候呢你認為院會我先問你院會的決議可不可以抵觸法律可不可以違背法律不行不行很好往下看"},{"start":263.337,"end":276.699,"text":"來我們看一下這是院會的決議11月22號他有幾個重點他規定了調查會的組成按照各黨團的席次比例推派對不對一席次比例分布多少席61761是不是這樣子然後推派是誰推派黨團推派嘛那誰會整"},{"start":293.562,"end":313.105,"text":"議事處會診 會診有沒有審查或否準的權利 沒有 他只是會診 然後呢 院會匯報 什麼叫院會匯報 匯報給大會知道嘛 各黨能送來的名單嘛 院會有否準的權利嗎 有沒有 有沒有否準的權利 大聲點 有沒有"},{"start":314.542,"end":340.047,"text":"沒有基本上是沒有沒有好那麼他這裡面規定了黨團來推派比例如何而且規定了名單要跟院會報告第一次會議什麼時間決定了對不對決定了時間對不對就是12月2號然後呢是由國民黨黨團來推派臨時主席對不對臨時主席要做什麼事情要決定召集人對不對召集人幾位幾位"},{"start":343.89,"end":367.737,"text":"議員寫在哪裡立法院職權刑事法第46條調查委員會設召集委員一名對不對是嗎好然後呢這個調查委員會要不要運作要不要運作要點要你們要協助人跟他打聲一點時間很寶貴該誰跟我們副部長提示就提示好那我先問你一下根據立法院各委員會組織法第4條4-1條委員會的議程是由召委來決定"},{"start":373.328,"end":402.167,"text":"那麼報告調查委員會調查委員會的議程是不是由調查委員會的召委來決定那根據我們過去的慣例調查委員會成立之後召委產生之後是不是調查委員會的議程由該委員會的召委決定是嗎 是不是好 那請問一下安排議程是召委的法定職權院會可以決議委員會第一次12月2號議決的內容要他們去處理運作要點嗎"},{"start":406.247,"end":407.894,"text":"委員會中心主義基本上是委員會主義"},{"start":410.506,"end":437.713,"text":"好接下來第二個問題既然院會要求要成立決議要成立一個調查委員會也決定調查委員會的組成也要告訴他時間名單等等等還包括說要推選出召委推選那個召委之前的臨時主席是由國民黨來推派都訂了很清楚了而且呢這個委員會的運作的時候呢要一個要運作要點好那現在我請問一下你看了有沒有看到上上星期"},{"start":439.283,"end":445.767,"text":"十二強國際棒球十二強的決賽有嗎 對不對台灣的先發投手是誰林玉明林玉明很好林玉明是原來大會先發的名單當中的嗎不是中華隊台灣更換了嘛 對不對更換了依規定可以更換嗎"},{"start":467.622,"end":490.396,"text":"他會受到處罰要罰款嘛那我們台灣就決定更換那大會可以強制不更換或強制要更換嗎不行很好所以今天我們院會的決定這個調查委員會的推派各黨人推派代表之後院會也匯報給院會知道之後第一次名單先發名單出來了先發名單出來之後民進黨團可不可以更換可不可以根據立法院執行法第45條之一事實情況改派可不可以"},{"start":499.847,"end":504.354,"text":"可不可以來 署長可不可以可不可以改派名單簽發名單出來了可不可以改派"},{"start":508.787,"end":536.048,"text":"這個涉及到說我們當初第一次院會的決議剛剛對啊決議啊決議說要送名單啊名單送了沒那名單如果不送的話就是預算了送了沒已經送了送了送完之後可不可以改院會已經被查過了被查過了可不可以改被查過之後呢這個被查的名單就用來開第一次會好開了第一次會第一次會開始開了嘛第一次會開的時候呢有黨團要求要改派那可不可以改那但是改派的話呢巡曆還是要再報告院會什麼叫巡曆來我們來看下一個例子來往下一看"},{"start":537.99,"end":559.091,"text":"當時啊我們說這個是要議事處是匯報院會報告往下一頁國民黨說啊說必須正式新聞被查方法變更有這樣的規定嗎我們現在看陳柏惟當年陳委員解職後我們黨的新聞議事處改派蔡世應院會被查什麼時候生效"},{"start":563.117,"end":565.178,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":592.383,"end":621.158,"text":"明期出席來請問一下我們國發會的這個設置要點立法主管機關要聘請各黨團推薦的學者專家臨聘之這個基金會啊他是根據一個管理條例設置管理條例來依法臨聘之那這個臨聘的這些學者專家是由各黨團推薦好啦那現在呢要調查的時候這些學者專家有沒有出席的義務"},{"start":623.203,"end":638.113,"text":"立法院只願新是吧?有沒有?基本上是臨聘啦那臨聘了以後他應該就有出席義務阿那他是對基金會的出席義務阿現在是調查委員會要請他來阿調查委員會要根據哪一條請他來往下看"},{"start":642.708,"end":663.898,"text":"我們來看一下齁 我們的修正動議的內容啊 是說什麼必案有無護航犯水 刑事不法 檢調真怕違法失職 監察院糾舉彈劾彈劾糾舉 如果是行使憲法職權的特定議案的重大關聯是立法院調查 那麼現在調查必案是立法院的職權嗎是不是法制局局長 調查必案是誰的職權"},{"start":674.721,"end":695.791,"text":"有關那個調查委員會他必須針對特定議案那特定案所衍生的相關事項就由這個調查委員來做人那請問一下那目前這調查委員會他可以調查的人在我們立執法的規範當中第46條以及46條之一之二"},{"start":700.051,"end":704.815,"text":"之三還有第59條聽證權的內容46條之二跟47條第二項和我們50條之一之三之四之五有沒有一樣"},{"start":717.974,"end":740.806,"text":"規範的內容有沒有一樣為你所謂的規範的內容調查提要求人員來進行聽證或詢問我們的調查權的行使是在第8章第45條之後他這整張都都都在規範掉那他跟我們聽證權的三章59條之一到之五的內容第9章之一第9章之一對不對59條嗎對對對有沒有一樣"},{"start":743.837,"end":744.839,"text":"有些一樣有些不一樣"},{"start":748.069,"end":775.849,"text":"我們歷史法往下一頁歷史法修改之後我們看到我們歷史法59條之五的第一項拒絕證言的事由涉及國安及國安外交法律明定之個人隱私或公私的秘密請問59條之五的內容這些拒絕證言的事由我們在調查委員會裡面46條之一46條之二以及我們所說的47條第二項有沒有一致"},{"start":777.776,"end":807.082,"text":"有沒有一致我直接告訴你喔47條的第2項沒有所謂的涉及國安國安外交啦也沒有法定明定的個人隱私跟其他秘密啦所以同樣的一個調查委員會當他辦聽證會的時候或者他進行調查的時候被詢問或調查的人他的拒絕證言的室友就不一樣了國民黨院會的決議漏了國安跟隱私或營業秘密當事人可不可以主張"},{"start":808.19,"end":823.025,"text":"議員會的決議只有寫哦﹚詢問的內容不得逾越調查目的事項範圍﹚並於詢問前告知有拒絕證言之權利及事由﹚拒絕證言之事由準用行政訴訟法的相關規定那麼有沒有包括59條之五的內容有沒有包括這樣決議的內容我們有沒有說排除59條之五的適用"},{"start":832.469,"end":841.68,"text":"跟委員報告,第50條之五在大法官宪判是第9號的解釋指向,第50條之五指第一項"},{"start":843.683,"end":862.377,"text":"沒有違憲。第二項、第三項、第四項、第五項、第六項、第七項都被大法官宣布。所以這第一項的內容很重要對不對?他的第一項的內容就是說出席人員有下列情形之一者的拒絕證言或表達意見。區長我的設計是說11月22的決議內文有沒有排除59條之五第一項的適用?"},{"start":868.842,"end":884.406,"text":"這個要由調查委員會的委員來他們做 欸剛剛副秘長你不是說了嗎我們立法院的院會的決定都不可以抵觸法律違背法律了難道調查委員會可以排除59條之五的第一項的適用嗎可以說我們不適用59條之五第一項 可以這樣嗎"},{"start":895.586,"end":916.072,"text":"第59條之五的第一項 宪判是第九號 他是沒有宣布違憲要適用啊 就要適用啊第59條之五的第一項的內容對於當事人被要求去詢問的當事人的權利保障比47條"},{"start":919.406,"end":947.663,"text":"出席人員有下列之一的拒絕陣營或表達意見他可以拒絕陣營他也可以表達意見啊應該要適用嘛適用啊很好那就對了問了半天來最後我要結束主席站下一項好最後呢這個跟我們預算執行啊我們目前副院長你知道我們立法院的會議是有一些空氣品質指標啊這個會議是有沒有應該有啊沒有啊沒有空氣品質指標啊"},{"start":949.418,"end":969.465,"text":"指標的部分那個部分會議是公報處的部分公報處有沒有有沒有空氣品質指標總務處是哪一個處管的你都搞不清楚哪裡有空有沒有2011就有啦2011的交通委員會就有啦教育委員會紅樓伊尼也有啦那為什麼這裡沒有"},{"start":970.393,"end":998.898,"text":"是不是要有?空氣品質指標要不要有?每個會議室都裝潮好不好?可以承諾嗎?好,空氣品質很重要。噪音污染要不要研究一下?那也要求比照空氣品質指標,把每個會議室的噪音啊,的指標也放進去。因為我們會議室啊,這個職場啊,霸凌呢,空氣不好,噪音過潮,都會妨害我們的意識。承諾每個會議室都安裝兩個,空氣品質跟噪音,可以嗎?"},{"start":1000.938,"end":1001.719,"text":"主席可以做出這樣的決定嗎?"},{"start":1034.228,"end":1057.968,"text":"我們希望調查委員會根據我們的立職法應該就要遵照立職法的規定而且請責成法治局立職法通過之後前後條文相關需要整合的配套規章要求一併提出一個研究報告這個跟委員報告我們在憲判是第9號之後我們有做一個那個"},{"start":1059.462,"end":1084.814,"text":"因備齊的配套規章有沒有準備了?配套規章準備了沒?我們是有把它整理啦,把它整理後我們事後再提供給委員會跟委員辦公室可不可以?副秘書長,責任法治局一個月內把相關的配套規章因備齊的條文應該補齊的,我們國會要趕快迅速推動內規我是問副秘書長啦,一個月內可以嗎?"},{"start":1089.295,"end":1089.817,"text":"黃國昌委員發言"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":338,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（9時41分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。主席，我可不可先請副秘書長？但是我要先了解他哪些部分可以取代秘書長，再請其他可以幫忙的人上臺，可以嗎？先請副秘書長，好不好？"],["主席：好，麻煩副秘書長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我先來問一下，我再決定要請誰來協助他，因為……"],["主席：所以你的意思是說時間先不要跑？"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，先不要動。"],["主席：好，那我們時間先不要動。"],["鍾委員佳濱：副秘書長，抱歉，如果今天是秘書長的話，我就可以很放心，我必須詢問一下你對於法規的嫻熟，才決定邀請哪些主管來協助你，好嗎？你對中華民國憲法熟悉嗎？熟讀啦？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上熟悉。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，增修條文熟讀吧？立法院組織法熟悉吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有閱讀過。"],["鍾委員佳濱：立法院職權行使法如果不了解的話，你會問誰？法制局還是議事處？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：兩位可能都會問。"],["鍾委員佳濱：議事規則不熟悉，你會問誰？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：議事處。"],["鍾委員佳濱：議事處，好，議事規則你熟嘛？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前在熟悉當中。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，職權行使法剛修過，你熟嘛？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：因為修了很多，我熟悉的是比較舊的，不過沒關係……"],["鍾委員佳濱：新的你要適應？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：立法院各委員會組織法你熟嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有涉獵過一部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：如果不了解你會問誰？問議事處嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：應該會問法制局。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們就請議事處跟法制局分別上來。"],["主席：麻煩議事處、法制局。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我這樣可以開始問了。","副秘書長，請教一下，你認為立法院存在的目的，這個組織存在的目的，根據組織法第二條目的是什麼？是不是要協助立法委員來問政、行使憲法的職權，是不是？你不用看法條，我就告訴你了，立法院組織法，立法委員行使職權嘛！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：立法委員就來開會嘛！立法院組織法存在就是要讓我們立法委員來開會，你認為民主國家的軍隊可以阻止國會議員到立法院開會嗎？到國會開會嗎？可不可以？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上不行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不行，好，我們憲法規定中華民國總統可不可以宣布戒嚴？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是要怎麼樣？是不是要經過立法院的通過或追認？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有通過或追認有沒有效？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上……"],["鍾委員佳濱：憲法第三十九條你熟讀嘛！對不對？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：增修條文認為，總統在戒嚴的時候可以解散國會嗎？不可以嘛！這直接回答，顯然你不太熟喔！不可以，對不對？所以如果在臺灣，根據中華民國憲法跟增修條文，總統要宣布戒嚴要經過國會同意，而且在這段時間不能解散國會，要維持國會的運作，是不是這樣？那戒嚴法第一條，什麼時候我們可以宣布戒嚴？要有戰爭或叛亂發生嘛！對不對？而且在一個月內要提交立法院追認嘛！是不是？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們昨天看到一個情況，你認為在臺灣可不可能發生？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上所有憲法設計的都有可能發生。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是，你認為在臺灣可能發生？我們臺灣的法律，憲法規定跟韓國不一樣，你覺得昨天韓國的這個事情有沒有可能在臺灣發生？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我認為不太可能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不太可能，很好。","那我現在問的就是我們審預算的事情，議事處及法制局分別的職掌，剛剛問過了。議事處是負責什麼？議事事項，對不對？法制局是法制諮詢事項，你確認嘛！好。","我們院會在11月22日決議要成立國發基金調查委員會，名單於11月27日前送議事處，12月2日我們第一次開會選召委。我問你，院會的決議可不可以牴觸法律？可不可以違背法律？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：不行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不行，很好。我們看一下，這是院會的決議、11月22日，它有幾個重點，規定了調查委員會之組成，按照各黨團的席次比例推派，依席次比例分布，多少席？7、6、1，是不是這樣子？然後是誰推派？黨團推派。那誰彙整？議事處彙整。彙整有沒有審查或否准的權利？沒有，它只是彙整。然後什麼叫院會彙報？彙報給大會知道嘛！各黨團送來的名單，院會有否准的權利嗎？有沒有否准的權利？大聲點，有沒有？沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上是沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有，好。這裡面規定了黨團推派、比例如何，而且規定了名單要跟院會報告，第一次會議是什麼時間決定了，對不對？決定了時間，對不對？就是12月2日，是由國民黨黨團推派臨時主席，對不對？臨時主席要做什麼事情？要決定召集人，對不對？召集人幾位？幾位？1位，寫在哪裡？立法院職權行使法第四十六條，調查委員會設召集委員一名，是嘛！好，然後這個調查委員會要不要運作？要不要有運作要點？要。你們要協助人，大聲一點，時間很寶貴，該誰跟我們副秘書長提出提示……好，那我先問你一下，根據立法院各委員會組織法第四條之一條，委員會之議程，是由召委決定，那麼包不包括調查委員會？調查委員會的議程是不是由調查委員會的召委決定？根據我們過去的慣例，調查委員會成立，召委產生之後，是不是調查委員會的議程由該委員會的召委決定？是嘛！是不是？好，那請問一下，安排議程是召委的法定職權，院會可以決議委員會第一次（12月2日）議決的內容，要他們處理運作要點嗎？可不可以？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們採委員會中心主義，基本上是委員會自……"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，謝謝。接下來第二個問題，既然院會決議要成立一個調查委員會，也決定調查委員會的組成，也告訴它時間、名單等等，還包括要推選召委之前的臨時主席，是由國民黨推派，都訂得很清楚了，而且這個委員會運作的時候要有一個運作要點。那現在我請教一下，你有沒有看到上上星期國際棒球十二強的決賽，有嘛！臺灣的先發投手是誰，有沒有人可以告訴他？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：林昱珉。"],["鍾委員佳濱：林昱珉，很好。林昱珉是原來大會先發名單當中的嗎？不是，臺灣更換了，對不對？更換了。依規定可以更換嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：會受到處罰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要罰款嘛！我們臺灣就決定更換。那大會可以強制不更換或強制要更換嗎？不行，很好，所以今天我們院會的決定，這個調查委員會的推派，各黨團推派代表之後，也彙報給院會知道後，第一次名單、先發名單出來了；先發名單出來之後，民進黨黨團可不可以更換？可不可以根據立法院職權行使法第四十五條，視實際情況改派，可不可以？可不可以？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我可不可以請議事處處長講？"],["鍾委員佳濱：來，處長，可不可以？可不可以改派？"],["高處長百祥：可以改派。"],["鍾委員佳濱：名單、先發名單出來了，我可不可以改派？"],["高處長百祥：這個涉及到我們當初第一次院會的決議，剛剛……"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，決議啊！決議說要送名單哪！名單送了沒？"],["高處長百祥：名單如果不送的話，就是逾期。"],["鍾委員佳濱：送了沒？"],["高處長百祥：已經送了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：送了。"],["高處長百祥：而且院會已經備……"],["鍾委員佳濱：送完之後可不可以改？"],["高處長百祥：而且院會已經備查過了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：備查過了，可不可以改？"],["高處長百祥：備查過之後，這個備查的名單就用來開第一次會議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，開了第一次會議，第一次會議開始開了嘛……"],["高處長百祥：第一次會議要開的時候，有黨團要求改派。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那可不可以改？"],["高處長百祥：但是改派的話，循例還是要再報告院會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：什麼叫循例？我們看下一個例子，議事處是彙報，院會報告……國民黨說必須正式行文備查方可變更，有這樣的規定嗎？當年陳柏惟委員解職後，我們黨團行文議事處改派蔡適應，院會備查，什麼時候生效？回去查啦！備查的意思是什麼？我決定了，事後告訴你就好了啦！","副秘書長，是不是這樣子？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你熟讀法規嘛！什麼叫備查？我決定了，事後告訴你，是不是這樣子？","所以議事處的處長顯然對法規的了解有缺失。","調查委員會要命其出席，請問一下，國發會的這個設置要點，主管機關要聘請各黨團推薦的學者、專家遴聘之，這個基金會是根據一個設置管理條例依法遴聘之，遴聘的這些學者專家是由各黨團推薦。現在要調查的時候，這些學者專家有沒有出席的義務？立法院職權行使法，有沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上是遴聘，那遴聘了以後他應該就有出席義務。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是他對基金會的出席義務啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在是調查委員會要請他來啊！調查委員會要根據哪一條請他來？我們的修正動議的內容是說什麼？「弊案有無護航放水」。刑事不法，檢調偵查；違法失職，監察院彈劾糾舉；如果與行使憲法職權之特定議案有重大關聯，是立法院調查權，那麼現在調查弊案是立法院的職權嗎？是不是？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我們請法制局局長回答，好不好？"],["鍾委員佳濱：法制局局長，調查弊案是誰的職權？"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，有關那個調查委員會，它必須針對特定議案，而特定議案所衍生的相關事項，就由調查委員來做。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請問目前這個調查委員會，它可以調查的人，在我們立職法的規範當中，第四十六條及四十六條之一、之二、之三，還有第五十九條聽證權的內容……"],["郭局長明政：報告委員，沒有第四十六條之三。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對不起，是第四十七條第二項。第四十六條之二及第四十七條第二項和第五十九條之一、之三、之四、之五有沒有一樣？規範的內容有沒有一樣？"],["郭局長明政：委員，你所謂的規範內容一樣……"],["鍾委員佳濱：調查，要求人員來進行聽證或詢問。"],["郭局長明政：我們的調查權行使是在第八章第四十五條之後，這整章都都在規範調查……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那它跟我們聽證權的專章第五十九條之一至之五的內容……"],["郭局長明政：它是第九章之一。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第九章之一，對不對？"],["郭局長明政：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：第五十九條嘛！"],["郭局長明政：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有一樣？有些一樣，有些不一樣嘛？"],["郭局長明政：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。副秘書長，立職法改了之後，我們看到立職法第五十九條之五第一項得拒絕證言之事由，涉及國安、國防及外交、法律明定之個人隱私或公司的秘密，請問第五十九條之五這些得拒絕證言的事由，在調查委員會裡面，第四十六條之一、第四十六條之二以及我們所說的四十七條第二項，有沒有一致？有沒有一致？我直接告訴你，第四十七條第二項沒有所謂的涉及國安、國防及外交，也沒有法律明定的個人隱私或其他秘密啦！所以同樣的一個調查委員會，當它辦聽證會或者進行調查的時候，被詢問或調查的人，他拒絕證言的事由就不一樣了。副秘書長，院會的決議漏了國安跟隱私或營業秘密，當事人可不可以主張？院會的決議只有寫，詢問的內容不得逾越調查目的、事項、範圍，並於詢問前告知有拒絕證言之權利及事由，拒絕證言之事由準用行政訴訟法的相關規定。那麼有沒有包括第五十九條之五的內容？有沒有包括？這項決議的內容，我們有沒有說排除第五十九條之五的適用？"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，第五十九條之五在大法官憲判字第9號的解釋意旨下，第五十九條之五指第一項沒有違憲。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啊！沒有違憲，對啊！"],["郭局長明政：第二項、第三項、第四項、第五項、第六項、第七項都被大法官宣判……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，所以這第一項的內容很重要，對不對？"],["郭局長明政：第一項的內容就是說出席人員有下列情形之一者得拒絕證言或表達意見，他可以……"],["鍾委員佳濱：局長，我的意思是說，11月20號的決議內文有沒有排除第五十九條之五第一項的適用？"],["郭局長明政：這個要由調查委員會的委員他們做……"],["鍾委員佳濱：剛剛副秘書長你不是說了嗎？我們立法院院會的決議都不可以牴觸法律、違背法律，難道調查委員會可以排除第五十九條之五第一項的適用嗎？"],["郭局長明政：既然已經成立調查委員會，這個要由調查委員的委員合意……"],["鍾委員佳濱：合意說我們不適用第五十九條之五第一項，可以這樣嗎？"],["郭局長明政：這個第五十九條之五的第一項，憲判字第9號它是沒有宣布違憲。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啊！沒有宣布違憲，所以要適用啊！就要適用啊！第五十九條之五第一項的內容，對於被要求去詢問的當事人的權利保障，比第四十七條的第二項更重要。"],["郭局長明政：出席人員有下列之一者，得拒絕證言或表達意見，他可以拒絕證言，他也可以表達意見。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，所以應該要適用嘛！"],["郭局長明政：適用。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這樣就對了，問了半天。最後，我要結束了，主席站起來……最後跟我們預算執行有關，副秘書長，你知道我們立法院的會議室有一些空氣品質指標，這個會議室有沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：應該有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有啊！沒有空氣品質指標啊！有沒有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：會議室是公報處的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：公報處，有沒有？有沒有空氣品質指標？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是總務處。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是哪一個處管的，你都搞不清楚？哪裡有空氣指標？201就有啦！201的交通委員會就有啦！教育委員會紅樓101也有啦！那為什麼這裡沒有？是不是要有？空氣品質指標要不要有？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：要，這個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：每個會議室都裝設，好不好？可以承諾嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，空氣品質很重要，噪音污染要不要研究一下？也要求比照空氣品質指標，把每個會議室的噪音指標也放進去，因為我們會議室的職場霸凌，空氣不好、噪音過吵，都會妨害我們的議事，承諾每個會議室都要安裝兩個，包括空氣品質跟噪音，可以嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：可以，如果委員支持的話。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，當空氣品質不佳或者是噪音產生的時候，怎麼辦？有沒有斷訊、斷音？什麼情況之下可以消音？什麼時候可以斷訊？有沒有這個規範？主席可以決定，是不是？如果空氣品質太差、聲音太吵，怎麼處理？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上這是國會自律事項。"],["鍾委員佳濱：國會自律事項，設備要不要支持？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：設備我們絕對支持。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要支持主席可以做出這樣的決定嘛！所以我們希望調查委員會根據我們的立職法，那麼應該就要遵照立職法的規定，而且請責成法制局，立職法通過之後，前後條文相關需要整合的配套規章，要求一併提出一個研究報告。"],["郭局長明政：這個跟委員報告，我們在憲判字第9號之後，我們有做一個……"],["鍾委員佳濱：應備齊的配套規章有沒有準備了？"],["郭局長明政：我們在113年6月24號，我們國會五法修正過後，總共修了大概41個條款，包含中華民國刑法，那……"],["鍾委員佳濱：配套規章準備了沒？"],["郭局長明政：我們是有把它整理，我們事後再提供給委員會跟委員辦公室，可不可以？我們把它完全整理了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，副秘書長，責成法制局一個月內把相關的配套規章，應備齊的條文、應該補齊的，我們國會要趕快迅速推動內規，我是問副秘書長啦！一個月內可以嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。那我們下一位請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157747","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157747","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836068da755c481a99d14a6acd55cc740f50525ce9d933a56c3f3ef1174435adc4975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:44:09 - 09:52:38","影片長度":"00:08:29","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:44:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:52:38+08:00","duration":509,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.0772187500000001,"end":2.0222187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2.46096875,"end":3.7434687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.30034375,"end":6.494093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.476593750000003,"end":17.294093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.73284375,"end":19.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.14596875,"end":24.398468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.95096875,"end":39.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.78471875,"end":38.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.50596875,"end":38.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.72534375,"end":38.759093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.822218750000005,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":91.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.40471875,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.82596875,"end":98.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.44596875,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.56784375000001,"end":102.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.33971875,"end":105.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.22534375000001,"end":108.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.63409375,"end":114.02159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.44346875000001,"end":117.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.18971875000001,"end":121.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.24034375000001,"end":118.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.43409375,"end":130.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.59721875,"end":130.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.66034375,"end":130.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.67721875,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.80784375000002,"end":132.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.39846875,"end":132.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.43221875,"end":134.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.53721875000002,"end":141.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.89909375000002,"end":144.43034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.10534375,"end":147.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.73784375,"end":156.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.88409375,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.99346875,"end":160.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.64721875,"end":161.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.38534375,"end":165.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.40596875,"end":166.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.75596875000002,"end":167.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.02159375000002,"end":172.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.99971875,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.73346875000001,"end":181.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.53846875000002,"end":187.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.03534375,"end":189.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.75659375,"end":190.75221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.39346875,"end":198.36284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.61596875,"end":200.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.67471875,"end":202.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.90221875,"end":203.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.93159375000002,"end":208.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.94346875000002,"end":213.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.73596875,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.82846875,"end":217.31346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.81971875000002,"end":218.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.52846875,"end":220.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.49846875,"end":223.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.06346875000003,"end":229.95284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.44221875000002,"end":231.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.46721875,"end":235.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.84221875000003,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.28909375,"end":240.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.51659375000003,"end":242.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.06471875000003,"end":244.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.53284375,"end":252.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.08846875,"end":254.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.02909375000002,"end":258.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.48409375,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.20909375,"end":267.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":269.25471875,"end":271.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.30909375000005,"end":273.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.40159375,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.39721875000004,"end":276.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.03846875,"end":277.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.24909375000004,"end":279.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.49784375,"end":282.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.15971875,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.64034375,"end":291.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.79971875,"end":295.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.25471875,"end":298.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.10659375,"end":299.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.70971875000004,"end":303.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.40534375000004,"end":311.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.77971875000003,"end":314.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.68221875,"end":315.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.47534375000004,"end":331.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.06346875,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.43221875,"end":352.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.80284375,"end":357.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":358.33784375000005,"end":361.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.94909375000003,"end":363.75471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.58159375,"end":367.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.56846875,"end":369.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.01971875000004,"end":372.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.21346875,"end":371.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.46221875000003,"end":384.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.93284375,"end":391.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.02471875000003,"end":422.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.30659375000005,"end":439.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.37159375000005,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.96534375000005,"end":453.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.28534375000004,"end":451.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":453.51284375,"end":462.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.08971875000003,"end":461.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.04721875,"end":469.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.64596875,"end":465.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.76409375000003,"end":465.78096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":469.47659375,"end":475.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.55659375000005,"end":471.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.02909375,"end":471.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.92346875000004,"end":471.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.99096875000004,"end":472.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.31096875000003,"end":492.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.90971875,"end":480.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.63909375000003,"end":482.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.19034375,"end":497.80971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.38346875,"end":499.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.05846875000003,"end":499.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.68284375,"end":500.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.15409375,"end":508.96409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.369,"end":6.172,"text":"跟那個羅文嘉副董事長。好,邱主委、羅副董事長。我想請問一下,我們現在跟中國,我們關係是不讀不回,還是已讀不回,還是偶爾看新情回?"},{"start":26.484,"end":43.579,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在跟中國大陸的這個溝通聯繫我們是依照過去已經有的這些溝通聯繫其實大概分三個部分簡單說就好了好不好那當然在陸委會跟國台辦海基會跟海協會"},{"start":45.847,"end":52.912,"text":"我在海基會任職,我想去年我們給對岸3179封信,我想他已讀不回,但有處理。我們陸委會其餘避免誤解誤判,我們認為有價值的資訊還是提供給他們參考。此外,我們兩岸目前正在落實的協議,兩岸協議有26項。"},{"start":69.665,"end":95.031,"text":"二十六項工作層級的都有在互動那進一步互動是沒有但是我們現在兩岸的大方向還是依照兩岸協議另外就是兩岸之間有許多的智庫、民間、台商也會傳遞有意義的資料避免兩岸誤解誤判我其實不需要我簡單的我要請教而已我為什麼要問這個問題"},{"start":96.994,"end":116.531,"text":"我不知道主委跟副董事長在10月份在中國的廣東有我們台灣的人被扣押然後呢是因為宗教是因為一貫道我不知道我們有沒有接收到這個訊息"},{"start":118.266,"end":118.927,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":135.612,"end":156.283,"text":"在今年的10月上旬,如果正確日期我們所知道應該差不多10月10號前後,在中國的中山這個地區,那有一處民宅在中國的公安突然進去,然後逮捕了裡頭的一些多少人員,詳細數字我們不知道。"},{"start":156.943,"end":167.268,"text":"但是其中有三位是來自於臺灣的一貫道的道青他們都大概年紀有70幾歲都是年紀蠻大那他們是過去這邊陪同這個當地人讀一貫道的經書"},{"start":176.025,"end":185.474,"text":"我們知道這個事情是在10月下旬才知道是因為家屬來向海基會陳情希望海基會能夠提供協助我們隨即也立即傳真給對岸的海協會"},{"start":191.84,"end":195.263,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":221.56,"end":224.561,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":243.309,"end":267.578,"text":"這三位的家屬在海基會有過非常深入的討論如何能夠更多的了解他們資訊以及提供協助那目前做到的是提供了律師有關大陸律師協助他們那以上是我們掌握的資料 謝謝就中國的法令來講對中間有沒有很明確的確定這個非法集會有可能是被判徒刑的吧"},{"start":269.295,"end":270.877,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":278.288,"end":279.91,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":301.532,"end":310.587,"text":"這個是中國的他本身的法律規定對啊我為什麼會特別請教這個一貫道在台灣大概有200萬的道卿"},{"start":311.843,"end":331.45,"text":"那如果中國要對一貫道出手,可能入海關、道青有金書有什麼的話,可能就會被盤查。這個我覺得可能要像我們台灣一貫道的道青要多一點宣傳,不然很多都是有上年紀的人,他們根本不知道。"},{"start":332.31,"end":334.992,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":358.574,"end":359.577,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":365.053,"end":390.912,"text":"我想委員在講那個不不你回答我是不是啊就好了我想我們當然是中華民國啊對啊對所以我要說這次這個某個基金會然後有很多中國的學生來啊你有沒有覺得他們的言論有超過了學生的參訪的條件講到了很多政治的層面呢"},{"start":391.252,"end":414.082,"text":"是,跟委員報告,這次馬英九基金會的陸生團到臺灣來,也包括有陸團的這些代表講了中國臺北,我想這個傷害了臺灣人民情感,那麼這些矮化臺灣的言論也被大家所無法接受。"},{"start":415.483,"end":420.427,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":440.022,"end":442.564,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":469.522,"end":471.542,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":498.288,"end":499.91,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2016,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時44分）請邱主委跟羅文嘉副董事長。"],["主席：請邱主委、羅副董事長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：好，我想請問一下，我們現在跟中國的關係是不讀不回，還是已讀不回，還是偶而看心情回？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們現在跟中國大陸的溝通聯繫，是依照過去已經有的溝通聯繫機制，大概分三個部分。"],["張委員宏陸：簡單說就好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，當然在陸委會跟國台辦、海基會跟海協會，我在海基會任職經驗，去年我們給對岸3,179封信，他已讀不回但有處理，那陸委會基於避免誤解、誤判，我們認為有價值的資訊還是會提供給他們參考。此外兩岸目前正在落實兩岸協議有26項，工作層級都有在互動，進一步的互動是沒有，但是現在兩岸的大方向還是依照兩岸協議。"],["張委員宏陸：好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：另外就是兩岸之間有許多智庫、民間、臺商也會傳遞有益的資料，避免兩岸誤解、誤判。"],["張委員宏陸：好、好、好，其實我簡單的請教而已，我為什麼要問這個問題？主委跟副董事長，10月份在中國廣東有臺灣的人被扣押，是因為宗教、一貫道，我不知道我們有沒有接收到這個訊息？這個也可以請羅副董事長回答。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我想有一些國人跟海基會就宗教、一貫道的部分去陳情，我請海基會來說明。"],["張委員宏陸：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：向委員做回應，在今年10月上旬，如果正確日期我所知道應該差不多在10月10日前後，在中國中山地區的一處民宅，中國的公安突然進去逮捕裡頭的一些人，多少人員詳細數字我不知道，但是其中有3位是來自於臺灣一貫道的道親，他們大概的年紀都有七十幾歲，都年紀蠻大，他們是前往陪同當地人讀一貫道的經書。我們是在10月下旬才知道這個事情，是因為家屬來向海基會陳情，希望海基會能提供協助，如同剛剛講，我們隨即也立即傳真給對岸的海協會，就這三個人的狀況詳敘並希望他們能夠協助支援，但是並沒有得到回復。隨即我們也透過過去簽訂的海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議，會同我們的主管機關法務部及警政署，透過他們的管道跟窗口去瞭解這個案例，但是對岸一直也沒有具體的回應。之後我們也透過其他海基會能運用的管道，來探尋這三位道親到底現況如何？這個資訊相較以往有類似的案子，非常不透明，所以我們能夠提供給大院的詳細內容也有限，我們多次跟這三位的家屬在海基會有過非常深入的討論，如何能夠瞭解更多他們資訊及提供協助，目前做到的是提供大陸的律師協助他們，以上是我們掌握的資料，謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：就中國的法令來講，對宗教沒有很明確的確定，這個非法集會有可能是被判徒刑的吧？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：是。"],["張委員宏陸：我想請教，會不會有可能被判刑？有沒有這個可能？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：在中國的刑法第三百條規定「組織和利用會道門、邪教組織或者利用迷信破壞國家法律、行政法規實施的」，會是什麼會，各種會，這個罪最重可以判到無期徒刑，最輕也可以單處罰金，範圍非常大，這是中國本身的法律規定。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦，我為什麼會特別請教這個？一貫道在臺灣大概有200萬的道親，如果中國要對一貫道出手，可能在入海關時，道親有經書或有什麼的話就可能就會被盤查，我覺得要向臺灣一貫道的道親多一點宣傳，不然很多都是有上年紀的人，他們根本不知道，如果去中國旅遊時，因為他每天要念經書就帶一本，在機場可能就被抓起來了，這個是我擔心的，那三個人當然也要儘量去幫忙，我覺得就是這樣。","我再請教一下邱主委，我們是中華民國，賴總統去到夏威夷是中華民國臺灣，對不對？他的獻花是中華民國臺灣總統，對不對？我們不是中國臺北吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想委員在講那個……"],["張委員宏陸：你回答我是不是就好了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們當然是中華民國啊，但是……"],["張委員宏陸：對啊，所以我要說，這次某個基金會有很多中國的學生來，你有沒有覺得他們的言論超過了學生參訪的條件，講到很多政治的層面了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，這次馬英九基金會的陸生團到臺灣來，也包括陸團的代表講了中國臺北，我想傷害了臺灣人民情感，這些矮化臺灣的言論也被大家所無法接受，這個已經涉及違反大陸人士來臺許可辦法。同時，馬英九基金會跟主管機關有一個聲明的內容，它也沒有確實來遵守，這個部分等他們回去之後，我們會邀集相關的主管機關就行政程序以我們蒐集到的事實來做進一步的處分，謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得除了這個之外還有一些羞辱性的言論，這個我們就不再提了，可是一群學生來，也不是每個學生都這樣，我們必須也要對學生有所尊重，不是每個學生都這樣。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員宏陸：但有沒有違反中華民國的法令，我倒覺得不管它是不是誰的基金會，該怎麼辦就怎麼辦。"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，我們一視同仁。"],["張委員宏陸：我不認為這是一視同仁的問題而已，這是國格的問題！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們依規定處理。"],["張委員宏陸：涉及一個國家的國格跟國家的尊嚴，如果連在臺灣發生，我們都沒有辦法處理的話，國際上怎麼看？未來大家怎麼做？這一點我特別要問就是這一個。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們會很慎重看待這個問題加以做行政處分。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157746","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157746","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b3052af0771b2b01b1ffdbb9442e4f6e525ce9d933a56c3fbb479112f1783c0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:38:46 - 09:49:11","影片長度":"00:10:25","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:38:46+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:49:11+08:00","duration":625,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.41909375000000004,"end":1.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.6172187500000001,"end":2.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.156593750000001,"end":49.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.01909375,"end":49.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.28909375,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.06721875000001,"end":109.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.30596875,"end":79.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.25846875,"end":110.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.29221875,"end":110.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.34284375,"end":110.35971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.35971875000001,"end":110.42721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.42721875000001,"end":110.57909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.23721875000001,"end":112.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.03034375,"end":112.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.80659375,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.02596875,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.04284375,"end":243.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.26284375,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.78721875,"end":287.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.57909375,"end":273.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.40784375000004,"end":294.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.38971875000004,"end":297.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.81159375000004,"end":298.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.27971875000003,"end":301.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.28784375000004,"end":308.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.29471875,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.58971875000003,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.03409375,"end":358.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.08471875000004,"end":358.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.45596875,"end":358.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.94534375,"end":358.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.96221875000003,"end":365.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.94846875,"end":374.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.96534375000005,"end":368.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.84659375,"end":370.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.71971875,"end":372.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.09909375,"end":375.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.01034375,"end":375.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.02721875000003,"end":375.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.39846875,"end":382.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.41534375000003,"end":376.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.30909375000005,"end":383.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.44784375,"end":404.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.03534375000004,"end":405.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.63846875,"end":405.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.79034375000003,"end":408.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.94221875000005,"end":406.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.13159375000004,"end":416.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.28659375,"end":456.07784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.23034375000003,"end":425.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.55096875000004,"end":425.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.07346875,"end":457.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.10721875,"end":464.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.17471875,"end":458.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.98409375000006,"end":466.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.81909375000004,"end":468.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.09284375000004,"end":468.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.68346875000003,"end":477.66096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.52284375000005,"end":470.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.59034375000005,"end":470.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.66096875000005,"end":477.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.72846875000005,"end":477.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.79596875000004,"end":478.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.94784375,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.18409375000005,"end":482.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.79159375,"end":479.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.95971875000004,"end":482.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.99346875000003,"end":506.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.08471875000004,"end":493.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.12471875000006,"end":507.90096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.19221875000005,"end":507.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.35659375000006,"end":519.0890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.8147187500001,"end":521.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.98721875,"end":528.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.6865937499999,"end":529.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.70346875,"end":529.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.75409375,"end":529.8047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.8047187500001,"end":529.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.9228437500001,"end":529.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.9565937500001,"end":548.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.60346875,"end":565.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.3772187500001,"end":567.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.03096875,"end":574.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.6922187499999,"end":601.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.27409375,"end":577.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.30409375,"end":611.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.44596875,"end":618.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.04409375,"end":620.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.96346875,"end":623.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.49034375,"end":625.1147187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.438,"end":1.819,"text":"蕭院長照為照院長我想接續兩位委員的一個地方我補充一下我剛對於您回答說我們現在明年的故宮百年那相關的紀念品好像目前規劃又是郵票"},{"start":23.215,"end":26.496,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":49.561,"end":66.716,"text":"委員報告,文創商品或紀念品其實故宮是有規劃,那剛講的就是說傳統的比如說紀念幣、紀念酒啦、郵票啦或是什麼金幣啦、金條啦,這個都有。那這個都是因為跟外面,包括玩具公仔都是跟外面合作的。院長這不要再回囉。"},{"start":67.677,"end":67.998,"text":"二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":82.777,"end":109.56,"text":"我們今天大家還是一直很關心不管是這個故宮南北院參訪人數整個營收我想都不是太理想我覺得我們都值得來討論一下我們看到其實故宮在11月11號的時候你們發布了一個新聞說故宮北院已經突破去年總參觀人次這個155萬2190人但本席看到這個所謂的突破好像就是突破多了6個人是不是"},{"start":111.421,"end":129.55,"text":"當然就是那個時間點是不是那個時間點多了6個人那我個人覺得啦我們有成績當然是值得鼓勵但多6個人這件事情實在沒有必要來發布這個新聞但是特別要提醒院長我們在疫情前108年的時候其實故宮本院的參訪人次高達3832373人是現在你統計數據的兩倍之多所以要到疫情恢復前的水準"},{"start":140.555,"end":158.097,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":158.257,"end":168.407,"text":"好,那我們再來看根據統計我們的這個人數逐步恢復的看起來只有北院南院反而是反其道而行原本我們看到111年參訪的人數達到1039,895人可是112年參訪的人數反而下降到954,296人那113年截至10月只剩下839,552人"},{"start":184.421,"end":186.902,"text":"南院不增反降?南部縣區本國及外國籍參訪比例108年本國籍1043714人次"},{"start":202.448,"end":206.052,"text":"外國籍只有5548人,可以說99%多都是本國籍,可是我們看到112年本國籍參訪人數驟降,112年降到941,065人,113年截至10月底只剩下78萬人,外國籍參訪人數略成長,"},{"start":225.011,"end":225.531,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案"},{"start":244.635,"end":261.731,"text":"在疫情期間的話其實南院的參觀人數的話反而是比北院多了一點111年的話超過百萬那因為疫情期間的話有那個補助專案那另外的話北部的話大家比較不喜歡來旅遊"},{"start":265.998,"end":287.706,"text":"疫情之後北院其實是回流然後南院的話其實有點劣降所以今年來講的話院長麻煩你不要用我剛才跟你講的數據來回答好嗎對以今年來講的話大概會比去年劣升就南院有劣升然後北院當然是增加幅度比較大但是都不如預期這是真的這是我們要努力的一個方向"},{"start":288.784,"end":308.55,"text":"為什麼我們自己的民眾是不願意去南院?為什麼南院的這個參訪人次這麼不好還要一直下降?有去了解過原因嗎?因為一樣是已經疫情後了,我們都在努力中,那何以北院的人次會上升而南院還要下降?這是為什麼?"},{"start":310.808,"end":326.01,"text":"這個我們要再理解看看因為所以你都不知道原因所以院長如果你不知道原因怎麼去努力讓南院的人士往上呢所以我想您說你還要再去了解看看這個我覺得非常的錯愕啦那一樣北院一樣南院一樣疫情之後了所以我想這個"},{"start":327.111,"end":347.004,"text":"希望你一個禮拜之內給我一個原因好不好這不可能沒有一個原因的了解的那另外我想我看到故宮的北院有辦這個故宮有意思這個給我們的學生參訪北部院區這是開放給全國公立高中以下學校來申請的但是呢我們南院剛剛看到了本國啦這個外國整體來說這個參訪人士都不好"},{"start":348.985,"end":365.145,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":365.345,"end":375.713,"text":"議長我知道你想要做的南北院區隔北院給北區的學校南院給南區的學校但是院長這是很無聊的一件事你難不成還怕說你開放的時候還搶掉了這個北院的聲音嗎對嘛所以我覺得啦"},{"start":383.479,"end":403.231,"text":"不過我覺得你看我們南院現在其實參訪人數是不好的那事實上南院其實有很多值得看的地方南院的同仁也很努力而南院佔地70公頃比本院還大現在在蓋這個國保館其實是非常適合學生前往參觀的所以你這樣的開放其實覺得不好是不是院長可以做一個調整"},{"start":404.251,"end":429.852,"text":"我們明年就調整明年的話北部的話我們會納入那因為它是一個有合作單位有委辦單位的很好那也就是明年一月以後我們全國的這個學生都也可以按照他們的意願申請北院或者南院都可以去參訪了對嗎對好那這個辦法要趕快讓教育部下去給我們所有的學校知道好嗎"},{"start":431.213,"end":444.502,"text":"最後我想一樣我們看到北院雖然參訪的人數逐漸在恢復可是並沒有反映在整個故宮的營收上根據故宮自己的統計112年故宮實體跟網路的商業這個營收加起來是3億1069萬可是我們看到113年截至10月的營收只有2億5878萬所以參訪人數變多為什麼營收下降"},{"start":458.711,"end":470.299,"text":"公文報告因為全年度還沒有結算您的意思是說後面這兩個月你可以再增加一億是這樣嗎門票跟基金的話都會增加"},{"start":472.64,"end":495.976,"text":"所以我們在今年你有把握我們可以超過去年是這樣嗎?會會會超過去年沒有問題嗎?對對因為他的結算的話是後後面一個月後面一個月好因為本席看到這個數據這比例上來說要用後面這一個多月兩個月去增加一億的這個這個零收看起來是有困難但是那個院長說是可以達標那我想我們就是恭喜並且肯定"},{"start":496.976,"end":519.09,"text":"再來但是我們看到在這個我們的故宮文物藝術發展基金我們的腳褲數好像也是往下降這可以說明一下嗎腳褲數實際上我們現在的淨利的話沒有那麼高可是腳褲數的話我們是一直在爭取降低沒有錯因為現在是我們結腳基金在腳褲所以這個部分的話"},{"start":522.998,"end":528.542,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":549.296,"end":566.873,"text":"當然是有很大的影響,像110年、111年疫情期間可是因為他的繳雇的概算是之前就編列的所以我們還是照那個額度去繳雇所以中間的話其實我們不能講虧空啦,就是我們那個基金虧空齁,這個詞用的不太對吧"},{"start":567.654,"end":571.398,"text":"院長,我們可能要再嚴謹一點,要不然你說了這個話,我想同仁大家捏把冷汗。我想最後一點點時間,我提醒院長,我想疫情沖撞之後,現在兩岸的關係這麼這樣的不好,"},{"start":589.337,"end":611.162,"text":"北院、南院同仁都很努力,那怎麼樣讓我們不管在營收在人事上面可以往上來提升我們要先找到原因,像剛剛院長講的原因不想這件事情不能夠再發生不是原因不想啦,因為原因有非常多元,就是說沒有辦法就是說單純一個原因當然就是說所謂的邊境開放這當然是一個主要的原因"},{"start":611.622,"end":613.466,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":535,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時38分）有請蕭院長。"],["主席：院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：召委早。"],["萬委員美玲：院長，我想我接續著剛剛兩位委員，有一個地方我補充一下，對於您剛剛回答說，明年的故宮百年，相關的紀念品好像目前的規劃又是郵票，沒有其他的規劃，其實現在故宮百年的相關活動應該已經如火如荼地開始在規劃中了，這個部分沒有，我覺得實屬可惜。其實我們常常去國外很多的博物館都可以看到，大批的遊客都是希望能夠買一些紀念品回來的，何況故宮百週年，這一點我希望院長來加強，看看做什麼樣的規劃跟彌補，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，文創商品紀念品其實故宮是有規劃，剛剛講的傳統的，譬如說紀念幣、紀念酒、郵票或是金幣、金條這些都有，這都是跟外面合作的，包括玩具公仔……"],["萬委員美玲：院長，這不要再回了，我想連我在內已經第三個委員問，你回答一樣的東西，這就不需要再回應了。我想我們就是希望要更有創意一點，讓大家有興趣一點的東西，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，我想還有時間，我們就再來研究。"],["萬委員美玲：在預算審查的時候，你把它提出來，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["萬委員美玲：好。我們再來看，今天大家還是一直很關心，不管是故宮南北院參訪人數、整個營收，我想都不是太理想，我覺得都值得來討論一下。我們看到其實故宮在11月11號發布了一個新聞說，故宮北院已經突破去年總參觀人次155萬2,190人。但本席看到，這個所謂的突破好像就是突破多了6個人，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然就是那個時間點突破……"],["萬委員美玲：是不是？那個時間點多了6個人，我個人覺得，有成績當然是值得鼓勵，但多6個人這件事情實在沒有必要發布這個新聞。但是也要特別提醒院長，我們在疫情前，108年的時候，其實故宮北院的參訪人次高達383萬2,373人，是現在這個統計數據的兩倍之多，所以要恢復到疫情前的水準，我覺得還有很大一段路要走。但說實在話，現在我們在做一些檢討的時候，也不宜一直再說疫情的影響、疫情的影響，疫情真的已經……在影響上來講已經沒有這麼大了，我覺得應該要開始朝更積極努力的方向走啦。","我們再來看，根據統計，人數逐步恢復的看起來只有北院，南院反而是反其道而行，原本我們看到111年參訪的人數達到103萬9,895人，可是112年參訪的人數反而下降到95萬4,296人；113年截至10月，只剩下83萬9,552人，南院是不增反降，這是第一個問題。第二個問題我一併把它問完，南部院區，我們看到本國跟外國籍的參訪比例，您要看108年的時候，本國籍來到104萬3,714人次，外國籍其實只有5,548人，可以說百分之九十九點多都是本國籍。可是我們看到112年，本國籍參訪的人次驟降，112年降到94萬1,065人，113年截至10月底，只剩下78萬人左右而已，外國籍的參觀人數略成長，從原本的5,548，112年跟113年分別來到一萬三跟一萬五，所以這個現象也蠻特別的，為什麼我們自己本國的民眾都不願意去南院？而外國是略增，能不能就這兩件事情，院長來回答一下？"],["蕭院長宗煌：在疫情期間的話，其實南院的參觀人數反而是比北院多了一點，111年超過百萬，因為疫情期間有補助專案，另外北部大家比較不喜歡來旅遊。疫情之後，北院其實是回流，南院其實有點略降，以今年來講的話……"],["萬委員美玲：院長，麻煩你不要用我剛才跟你講的數據來回答好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：以今年來講的話，大概會比去年略升，就南院有略升，然後北院當然是增加幅度比較大，但是都不如預期，這是真的，這是我們要努力的一個方向。"],["萬委員美玲：為什麼我們自己的民眾不願意去南院？為什麼南院的參訪人次這麼不好，還一直下降？你有去了解過原因嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為現在統計還沒有統計到年底。"],["萬委員美玲：不是，院長，因為一樣是已經疫情後了，我們都在努力中，何以北院的人次會上升，而南院還下降，這是為什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個我們要再理解看看。"],["萬委員美玲：所以你都不知道原因，院長，如果你不知道原因，怎麼去努力讓南院的人次往上呢？你說你還要再去了解看看，這個讓我覺得非常錯愕。一樣北院，一樣南院，一樣疫情之後了，所以希望你一個禮拜之內給我一個原因，好不好？這不可能沒有原因。","另外，我看到故宮的北院有辦故宮遊藝思，讓學生參訪北部院區，這是開放給全國公立高中以下的學校來申請的；我們剛剛看到南院整體的本國、外國參訪人次都不好，而南院有一個百萬學子悠遊博物館的專案計畫，卻只有開放給新竹以南到屏東縣市的學校，為什麼要有這樣的差異？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分的話，那時候是做一個南北院區域的分……"],["萬委員美玲：好，院長，我知道，你想要做南北院的區隔，就是北院給北區的學校參訪，南院給南區的學校參訪。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["萬委員美玲：但是院長，這是很無聊的一件事……"],["蕭院長宗煌：明年我們會擴張到南……"],["萬委員美玲：你難不成還怕你開放了之後，還搶掉了北院的生意嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不會、不會，明年南院會開放到北部。"],["萬委員美玲：你看南院現在其實參訪人次是不好的，事實上南院其實有很多值得看的地方，南院的同仁也很努力，而南院占地70公頃，比北院還大，現在在蓋國寶館，其實是非常適合學生前往參觀的，所以你這樣的開放方式，本席覺得不好，是不是院長可以做一個調整？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們明年就調整。"],["萬委員美玲：怎麼調整？"],["蕭院長宗煌：明年我們會納入北部的部分，因為這也是一個有合作單位、有委辦單位的，所以明年……"],["萬委員美玲：很好，也就是明年1月以後，我們全國的學生也都可以按照他們的意願申請北院或南院的參訪了，對嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["萬委員美玲：好，這個辦法要趕快讓教育部下去給我們所有的學校都知道，好嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["萬委員美玲：最後，我們看到雖然北院的參訪人數逐漸在恢復，可是並沒有反應在整個故宮的營收上，根據故宮自己的統計，112年故宮實體跟網路的商業營收加起來是3億1,069萬，可是我們看到113年截至10月的營收只有2億5,878萬，所以為什麼參訪人數變多，營收卻下降？這個原因不會又不知道了吧？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為全年度還沒有結算，因為今年、這幾年都……"],["萬委員美玲：院長，你說全年度沒有結算，您的意思是說後面這2個月可以再增加1億，是這樣嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：門票跟基金都會增加。"],["萬委員美玲：所以你有把握今年可以超過去年，是這樣嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：會，會超過去年。"],["萬委員美玲：沒有問題嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["萬委員美玲：那很好。"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為它的結算是後面1個月。"],["萬委員美玲：好，因為本席看到這個數據，在比例上來說，要用後面這一個多月、兩個月去增加1億的營收，看起來是有困難……"],["蕭院長宗煌：結算沒有問題。"],["萬委員美玲：但是院長說是可以達標，我想我們就是恭喜並且肯定。","再來我們看到，故宮文物藝術發展基金繳庫數好像也是往下降，這個部分可以說明一下嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：繳庫數，實際上我們現在的淨利沒有那麼高，可是繳庫數我們是一直在爭取降低沒有錯，因為現在是解繳基金在繳庫，所以繳庫數減少是讓我們之前的成本去攤平。"],["萬委員美玲：好。院長，我認為疫情一定是重創故宮，但是過去我們也很清楚知道，我們有大部分的參訪人次來自於對岸的遊客，現在兩岸這樣的情況，對故宮的影響是不是依然是最大的阻礙因素？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然是有很大的影響，像110年、111年疫情期間，可是因為它繳庫的概算是在之前就編列了，所以我們還是照那個額度去繳庫，中間的話其實我們不能講虧空，就是說我們那個基金……"],["萬委員美玲：虧空喔？這個詞用得不太對吧！"],["蕭院長宗煌：就是我們基金的額度下降滿多的，所以現在基本上就希望把這個基金彌平。"],["萬委員美玲：院長，我們可能要再嚴謹一點，好嗎？要不然你說了這個話，我想同仁大家都捏一把冷汗。最後我用一點點時間提醒院長，我想在受疫情重創之後，現在兩岸的關係這麼的不好，北院、南院的同仁都很努力，那怎麼樣不管在營收、在人次上面可以往上提升，我們要先找到原因，像剛剛院長講的原因不詳這種事情不能夠再發生。"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是原因不詳，而是因為原因非常的多元，就是沒有辦法說是單純因為一個原因，所謂的邊境開放當然是一個主要的原因，可是還有其他的原因……"],["萬委員美玲：院長，如果有機會的話，你會不會跟中央建議其實兩岸應該要開放，至少在觀光旅遊的部分？"],["蕭院長宗煌：私底下不管是故宮或個人，我都有在表達。"],["萬委員美玲：很好，我們繼續加油，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝召委，謝謝院長。","我們接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157743","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157743","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b094bca7d3c024e32ad4098cec3b17fd525ce9d933a56c3f97002103209a870d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:26:38 - 09:40:38","影片長度":"00:14:00","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:26:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:40:38+08:00","duration":840,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.5572187500000005,"end":12.450968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.805343750000002,"end":14.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.58159375,"end":18.289718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.72846875,"end":20.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.98971875,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.46221875,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.402843750000002,"end":23.824718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.22971875,"end":24.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.48659375,"end":30.405968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.49034375,"end":33.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.32534375,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.46034375,"end":36.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.494093750000005,"end":33.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.24909375,"end":35.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.970343750000005,"end":37.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.438468750000006,"end":52.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.73346875,"end":41.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.93409375,"end":66.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.90221875,"end":74.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.24284375,"end":75.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.25971875,"end":87.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.32971875000001,"end":86.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.51096875,"end":88.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.10159375,"end":89.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.20284375,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.22721875,"end":99.81284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.35284375,"end":100.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.19659375,"end":104.11596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.11596875000001,"end":125.14221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.19721875,"end":127.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.20534375000001,"end":126.82971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.38659375,"end":127.43721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.70721875000001,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.80846875,"end":128.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.06159375000001,"end":129.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.06971875000002,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.34346875,"end":136.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.13596875000002,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.69659375,"end":168.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.18096875,"end":147.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.13534375,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.46846875,"end":172.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.15159375000002,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.27721875,"end":187.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.52909375000002,"end":189.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.75659375,"end":191.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.51159375,"end":195.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.49409375000002,"end":197.18159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.36721875,"end":199.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":199.52721875,"end":200.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.51846875,"end":201.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.10909375,"end":202.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.45909375000002,"end":203.99909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.47159375,"end":207.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.43721875,"end":221.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.56159375000001,"end":224.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.38409375,"end":226.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.60284375,"end":229.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.25659375,"end":230.47596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.01596875,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.11721875,"end":231.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.18471875,"end":236.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.44971875000002,"end":237.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.91784375,"end":241.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.11534375000002,"end":243.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.18284375000002,"end":244.73534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.17846875,"end":244.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.19096875000002,"end":250.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.45596875,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.47659375,"end":254.06721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.08784375,"end":259.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.40346875,"end":275.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.37346875000003,"end":265.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.96409375,"end":266.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.22409375,"end":279.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.79721875,"end":285.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.89346875,"end":286.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.02409375,"end":289.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.52159375,"end":300.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.70971875000004,"end":306.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.58596875,"end":309.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.60284375000003,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.37471875,"end":312.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":313.14659375,"end":315.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.07846875,"end":322.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.33096875,"end":322.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.73159375,"end":323.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.17034375000003,"end":323.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.20409375,"end":335.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":336.06284375,"end":337.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.88534375,"end":339.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.07909375,"end":342.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.43721875,"end":344.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.60159375,"end":397.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.53409375,"end":399.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":400.13721875000005,"end":401.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":401.90909375,"end":406.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":406.83659375,"end":417.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.80534375,"end":444.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.85159375,"end":447.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.33659375,"end":458.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.18721875000006,"end":466.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.19971875000005,"end":460.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.01284375000006,"end":468.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.17284375,"end":469.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.06721875000005,"end":474.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.02846875000006,"end":476.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.81721875000005,"end":478.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.05721875,"end":509.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.55034375,"end":512.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.98034375,"end":515.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.69721875,"end":532.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.47159375,"end":529.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.84221875,"end":537.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.87096875,"end":539.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.9128437500001,"end":540.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.11096875,"end":543.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.96284375,"end":544.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.63784375,"end":548.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.1984687500001,"end":548.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.26596875,"end":548.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.4853437500001,"end":549.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.1772187500001,"end":552.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.1428437500001,"end":553.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.50971875,"end":559.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.01534375,"end":561.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.49596875,"end":562.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.23409375,"end":567.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.53721875,"end":570.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.9965937500001,"end":571.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.1315937500001,"end":572.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.15659375,"end":580.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.1340937500001,"end":584.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.2222187500001,"end":607.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.2890937500001,"end":589.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.6772187500001,"end":589.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.77534375,"end":610.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.96909375,"end":612.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.40346875,"end":614.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.1372187500001,"end":617.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":620.2209687500001,"end":620.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.38534375,"end":623.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":624.50721875,"end":633.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.09221875,"end":643.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.64346875,"end":651.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.2665937500001,"end":680.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":680.51534375,"end":685.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.6828437500001,"end":692.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.15909375,"end":693.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":693.0534687500001,"end":693.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.40346875,"end":695.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.10346875,"end":698.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.2847187500001,"end":698.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.31846875,"end":698.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.33534375,"end":698.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.3859687500001,"end":698.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.4197187500001,"end":698.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.5378437500001,"end":698.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.60534375,"end":698.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.6897187500001,"end":698.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.74034375,"end":699.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.17909375,"end":699.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.2297187500001,"end":699.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":699.58409375,"end":701.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":699.63471875,"end":700.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.7778437500001,"end":701.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.82846875,"end":703.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":703.41471875,"end":708.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.15659375,"end":708.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.35909375,"end":717.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":717.87659375,"end":736.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":737.40096875,"end":738.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":738.29534375,"end":754.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.90034375,"end":763.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":763.99596875,"end":766.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":766.6453437499999,"end":768.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.22721875,"end":771.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":771.9609687500001,"end":781.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":782.6597187500001,"end":783.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.1953437500001,"end":784.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":785.3428437500002,"end":789.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":790.5065937500001,"end":791.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":792.2109687500001,"end":795.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.9740937500001,"end":797.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":798.1340937500001,"end":799.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":801.86346875,"end":803.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":802.94346875,"end":807.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.29284375,"end":809.3728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":809.3728437500001,"end":811.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":811.41471875,"end":827.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.6147187500001,"end":835.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.88346875,"end":837.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":837.6047187500001,"end":837.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":837.6384687500001,"end":838.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.5834687500001,"end":840.25409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.815,"end":29.309,"text":"謝謝主席請我們立法院副秘書長請麻煩副秘書長他身體不變我們剛剛有選他血氧降到很低問他比較好玩可是因為身體因素我們一定是第一方沒問題當然身體最重要來副秘書長副秘書長是多大你也不知道備詢這個準備這樣不行我來請教幾個問題就我們立法院"},{"start":38.766,"end":65.422,"text":"這個簽件或者擴建這樣的一個問題我記得我們本來是26個地址選址到最後變成6個那當然現在的一個狀況我看這整個會期這樣子似乎朝野動蕩不安你們可能要花更多的心思在這個議事上但是也快一年的時間對於整個立法院的一個"},{"start":68.112,"end":72.643,"text":"擴建委員會或者尋找新的一個場域裡面你們現在這個計畫有沒有在進行?"},{"start":76.288,"end":97.26,"text":"好 謝謝委員關心那就是剛剛委員所提到的我們之前有立法院未來國會院警規劃諮詢委員會他的成員有21人召開了6次會議是啦 這就不用再給我拖時間了我就你就簡單跟他說你怎麼有編預算嘛預算也編了 你們編了多少本來去年編了多少好 這個部分709萬709嘛 有開的集嗎"},{"start":100.49,"end":129.574,"text":"還沒有一家人就沒開到還沒有那你不做事了報告委員這個部分是這樣啦容我再補充一下在113年5月的時候總務處有報請邀請了黨團協商組成國會貴賤規劃暨監督委員會那這個部分我們必須要等到議決以後然後配合預算709萬來辦理後續的規劃如果說沒有在113年執行去年編的709就是給今年用那現在已經12月份了嘛"},{"start":130.174,"end":132.079,"text":"那你們這個預算怎麼去辦保留?什麼到時候?都12月底了,什麼到時候?那就不可能辦保留了吧?"},{"start":141.835,"end":166.257,"text":"副編長答詢不能開玩笑你動作在這裡我是在跟你開槓這個是很嚴肅的事情啊去年編的預算今年用然後今年用你說可以講了很多理由朝野動盪不安為了整個議事你們這個幾乎心思花在這個地方所以整個擴建我們就全部都停擺了就算你停擺那你這個去年編的錢你今年就沒編了嘛"},{"start":169.238,"end":178.077,"text":"所以說嘛 從看你們花錢跟看你們有沒有編預算我就看得出來新任院長的心思嘛 不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":179.352,"end":186.856,"text":"你做一個負密你是負貿要賺而已嘛你沒辦法給我寫嘛就是說這件事情你們不把它當重要的事也沒有關係但是要講清楚怎麼你們連這個去你們自己都不編那去年編的你們一毛錢也都沒用然後你們錢也沒有去辦保留然後今年也不編明年的那所以你的解讀總歸一句話你認為在韓院長任內裡面有會有任何作為嗎"},{"start":208.644,"end":221.313,"text":"這個部分我是不是請總務處長來做一個補充他沒有辦法回答這個啦搞不好你也沒辦法回答啦我是說從你們沒有編預算還有別人編了預算你們一毛錢都沒花就可以知道你這個態度了嘛這個不要跟我講漂亮的話這個議題是朝野最高度共識的欸到底是你們怠惰"},{"start":230.916,"end":232.476,"text":"今天幾號?今天幾號你都不知道勒"},{"start":262.555,"end":272.783,"text":"這不能嬉皮笑臉啦我跟你講我就從第一個上來的答詢我就覺得奇怪你怎麼這樣的一個答詢的一個方式可能你沒有準備喔可能是要周秘書長來自己親自來來來備詢的但也不能這樣像這一種東西就是親著我親著叫一下也能回答什麼你給我回答這樣"},{"start":280.854,"end":280.914,"text":"我們積極辦理"},{"start":311.718,"end":313.661,"text":"對啦 要積極辦理積極辦理是四個字積極辦理 你們怎麼積極辦理法"},{"start":317.293,"end":334.938,"text":"市部的部分,廢後再跟總務處這邊來做商討不行啦,你們這樣不行啦一毛錢都沒有發,你說你要積極辦理你動作大家都中斤啦,這就不對啦立法院,我再另外一個重要的問題啦大家都希望是五指化啦,不要浪費這麼多的一個帳我給你看一下,三天分的那三天的,再過年一個啦你覺得你地下室你看過沒有?有多嗎?"},{"start":344.659,"end":357.818,"text":"有很多很可怕那確實是很可怕那這個議題我倒是這樣子認為我們立法院我們其實也在推這個五子化的一個會議但我相信大多數人也不太清楚你如果從立法院的內網裡面那個網站"},{"start":361.483,"end":361.503,"text":"獲得獎項"},{"start":385.287,"end":385.387,"text":"﹚莊瑞雄﹚"},{"start":406.892,"end":416.95,"text":"拜託你剛才說的 要積極辦理 這都是假話 這都是空話 立法院應該做的是說我怎麼樣去量化我一年我要減少多少值的使用量的一個百分比 然後呢"},{"start":417.881,"end":444.476,"text":"定期去做一個公佈說無紙化你推動的一個成效的一個數據啊逐步去強化我們整個線上系統的一個便利性跟使用度那我想呢這個最主要是說全球現在都是在推行節能檢探當下無紙化減少紙張啦不是那個不少紙化那個紙這個我相信立法院應該是積極來辦理的我不曉得你們的意見怎麼樣可以再加強嗎"},{"start":448.067,"end":460.998,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分我想五指化這個趨勢是大家世界上共通的趨勢然後這部分可以分為兩個部分一個部分是電子公文的部分 一個部分是會議資料的部分這我就知道了 因為先跟你說 我現在跟你說你要怎麼積極辦理就像你剛講的積極辦理 你有簿嗎 我要求的時候你要去做一個量化"},{"start":470.277,"end":475.566,"text":"指標定期做一個公布你們有誰有沒有辦法來幫忙他副秘書長來回答這個問題我們請公報處長"},{"start":480.28,"end":480.32,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":510.82,"end":532.09,"text":"當年的用紙量大概是一萬五千令那到去年大概一百一十二年的統計已經降到四千令所以我們整個很具體的一個節省大概百分之七十三%的一個節省一年減七百一年差不多不知道一百七十三%"},{"start":536.932,"end":541.576,"text":"95年至112年總共減73%本來是15000人今年呢今年大概也會預估大概用了"},{"start":553.208,"end":580.105,"text":"目前113年到現在用1278令而已。減少的跟去年減少的幅度做比較呢?減少,因為到113年以後就穩定了啦,大概都是用4000令左右。所以我的意思就是說,我希望你們有一個具體的一個指標啦。那我會給你一個辦公室三天就這麼可怕。那那麼多的一個辦公室啊,有點可惜啦。你看那個程序委員會,對吧?"},{"start":582.342,"end":582.462,"text":"議員：莊瑞雄議員"},{"start":612.011,"end":614.999,"text":"差不多就好了我有請我辦公室去算中興大樓這樣"},{"start":620.233,"end":642.923,"text":"我告訴你 我要去算過 一天後一百三十八隻 最少我算一百二百隻 辦公室都出動 去數那個機車 數那個機車要幹什麼呢 就是說我們那個整個下去那個坡道 停在外面的機車不算喔 我說停在中心大樓底下的 那變成說我們地下的坡道是暗藏危機 要特別小心 就是說看"},{"start":643.763,"end":651.139,"text":"秘書長 副秘書長 還是找您總務處長您討論一下就是說那個地下停車場那個坡道可不可以改成比較防滑一點"},{"start":652.332,"end":652.712,"text":"最後一個問題"},{"start":676.816,"end":678.337,"text":"委員指的是哪一種顏色的嗎?因為他有分不同的顏色。"},{"start":697.148,"end":697.528,"text":"市長市長市長市長市長"},{"start":717.924,"end":736.638,"text":"一些門禁、考勤、交通支付甚至於都讓拿的人都會覺得說他是非常有一個便利性好好的再去想一下讓這些使用的人覺得很便利那也體現一下你們對員工的一個照顧嘛"},{"start":737.435,"end":737.555,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":755.04,"end":781.153,"text":"不然立法院所有的各局處都在處理議事工房沒有這種事嘛你們各個單位全部都是不同的嘛那這個沒有提升的話代表沒有在做事啊你不能說立法院都是沒人管的立法院都是可以管你們的怎麼會不能管我們是說早末每一個政黨早末在政治議題啊可是你立法院該去提升的這個部分跟其他的各個單位啊立法院是一個院欸"},{"start":782.914,"end":785.516,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒 這個部分我們會來做一個研究提升它的功能"},{"start":808.802,"end":819.772,"text":"這個有必要啦!不然現在真的是太陽春啦!院欸!我們這叫做院欸!不要開玩笑欸好不好!你那個立法院那個簽件跟擴建那件事情喔不要再推給各黨團好不好!你們錢沒有給人家用一毛錢然後沒有去辦保留然後"},{"start":827.739,"end":839.921,"text":"明年的今年沒有給他兵辦毛錢這代表叫做不是說你們以後要積極辦理這個叫做怠惰啦好不好謝謝委員我們會辦保留謝謝謝謝莊委員欸那個蜂蜜蜂蜜我想請教"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":262,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時26分）謝謝主席，有請立法院副秘書長，秘書長跑去哪？"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。秘書長身體不便，我們剛剛有宣示，他血氧降到很低。"],["莊委員瑞雄：問他比較好玩啦！沒關係。"],["主席：可是因為身體因素，我們一定是第一考量。"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒問題，當然，身體最重要。來，副秘書長，副秘書長是多大你知不知道？備詢準備成這樣不行啦！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員早，不敢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我來請教幾個問題，就我們立法院遷建或者擴建這樣的一個問題，我記得我們本來是26個地址選址，到最後變成6個。當然，現在的一個狀況，我看這整個會期這樣子，似乎朝野動盪不安，你們可能要花更多的心思在議事上，但是也快一年的時間，對於立法院的擴建委員會，或者尋找新的一個場域裡面，你們現在這個計畫有沒有在進行？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，謝謝委員關心，就是剛剛委員所提到的，我們之前有立法院未來國會願景規劃諮詢委員會，成員有21人，召開了6次會議。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是啦，這有啦，這就不用再拖我的時間了。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你就簡單跟我說，你們有編預算嘛，預算也編了，你們編了多少？本來去年編了多少？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分是709萬。"],["莊委員瑞雄：709萬嘛。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：有花到錢嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：還沒有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一毛錢都沒花到？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：還沒有。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那就代表你們沒做事情啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：報告委員，這個部分是這樣，容我再補充一下，在113年5月的時候總務處有報請、邀集了黨團協商組成國會擴建規劃暨監督委員會，這個部分我們必須要等到議決以後，才能配合預算709萬來辦理後續的規劃，如果沒有在113年執行……"],["莊委員瑞雄：去年編了709萬就是給今年用嘛。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：現在已經12月份了，你們這個預算有沒有去辦保留？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，到時候就會辦保留……"],["莊委員瑞雄：什麼到時候！都12月底了，什麼到時候！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：因為現在還有一些事……"],["莊委員瑞雄：那就不可能辦保留了吧？副秘書長，答詢不能開玩笑，不能開玩笑！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你當我在這裡是在跟你聊天，這個是很嚴肅的事情。去年編的預算，今年用，然後今年用的你可以講很多理由──朝野動盪不安，為了整個議事，你們幾乎心思花在這個地方，所以整個擴建你們就全部都停擺了，就算你停擺，你去年編了錢，你今年就沒編了嘛，所以從看你們花錢跟看你們有沒有編預算，我就看得出來新任院長的心思，不是這樣子嗎？你做一個副秘，你是副幕僚長而已，你沒辦法解決什麼，這件事情你們不把它當成重要的事也沒有關係，但是要講清楚，怎麼連這個你們自己都不編？去年編的你們一毛錢也都沒用，然後你們錢也沒有去辦保留，今年也不編明年的，所以你的解讀總歸一句話，你認為在韓院長任內會有任何作為嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我是不是請總務處長來做一個補充？"],["莊委員瑞雄：他沒有辦法回答這個啦，搞不好你也沒辦法回答，我從你們沒有編預算，還有別人編了預算你們一毛錢都沒花，就可以知道你的態度了，不要跟我講漂亮的話，這個議題是朝野最高度共識的，到底是你們怠惰，還是你們……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：程序上黨團協商會有共識……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你不要推給黨團協商，這不要推給黨團協商，這是立法院最有高度共識的，你不要推給立法院的各黨，你們就沒有積極的作為啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：如果這一個年度沒有使用到這個經費的話，我們會辦保留。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們會辦保留？今天幾號？你今天來備詢連今天幾號你都不知道了，這不能嬉皮笑臉啦，我跟你講，我從你第一個上來的答詢，我就覺得奇怪……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：12月4號。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你怎麼會是這樣的一個答詢方式，可能你沒有準備好，可能是要周秘書長自己親自來備詢，但也不能這樣，像這種東西我隨便叫一個起來也可以回答，怎麼你回答成這樣？你就說：「好，我們後面會來積極辦理」，替你們韓院長說個好話也好，但你不是耶！你是去年的錢一毛錢都沒花，然後明年的、今年該編的錢，一毛錢都沒編耶！我從這兩點就可以看得出來你們對這個議題是玩假的，玩假的也沒關係，你們就是認為這個對立法院來講不是最重大的事，但只要有一個好答案我也沒意見，這樣不行啦，好不好？你今天答詢的態度代表韓院長喔！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們積極辦理。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對啦，要積極辦理！積極辦理是4個字，「積極辦理」你們怎麼個積極辦理法？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：細部的部分會後再跟總務處這邊來做商討，然後再請教委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不行啦！你們這樣不行啦！一毛錢都沒有花，你說你要積極辦理，你以為大家都「囡仔」，這就不對了。","立法院我另外一個重要的問題，大家都希望無紙化，不要浪費那麼多的紙，我給你看一下3天份的，這是3天份的，我個人的啦，地下室你看有過嗎？有沒有很多？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有，很多。"],["莊委員瑞雄：很可怕喔！確實是很可怕，這個議題我倒是這樣子認為，我們立法院其實也在推無紙化的會議，但我相信大多數人也不太清楚，你如果從立法院的內網，那個網站入口進去以後會有一個無紙化的會議系統，點進去以後常常會卡住，你想要去找會議的參考資料其實還是很分散。當然，我們在審法案也好，預算也好，尤其是法案，常常會有一些對照表，不可能說完全都沒有紙張，但是我們立法院身為最高民意機關，我們也必須要去做一個社會的典範，立法院是不是應該更加強來推動電子化的公文系統，減少不必要的紙張？怎麼樣去避免浪費，本席認為這個很重要，尤其我也認為立法院應該建置一些量化的指標，譬如不要像你剛才說的「積極辦理」，這都是假話、空話，立法院該做的是要怎麼樣去量化，一年要減少多少紙使用量的百分比，然後定期去公布無紙化推動成效的數據，逐步去強化我們整個線上系統的便利性跟使用度，我想這個最主要是全球現在都是在推行節能減碳的當下，無紙化是減少紙張啦，不是少子化的那個「子」。這個我相信立法院應該是要積極來辦理的，我不曉得你們的意見怎麼樣？可以再加強嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是，謝謝委員，我想無紙化這個趨勢是世界上共通的趨勢，這可以分為兩個部分，一個部分是電子公文的部分，一個部分是會議資料的部分，電子公文的部分……"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個我都知道，我已經先跟你說了，我現在是問你說你們要怎麼積極辦理，就像你剛剛講的「積極辦理」，你們有方法嗎？我要求的是你要去做一個量化，那個指標要定期去做公布，你們誰有辦法來幫忙副秘書長回答這個問題？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，我們請公報處長來。"],["蘇處長顯星：跟委員報告，目前我們印刷所用紙的部分在每一屆委員上任的時候都會用一個書面調查，希望他們提供我們需要紙本，或者是需要電子公文，我們會經由這樣的調查來統計需要印的印量。以我們目前的統計資料來講，95年當年的用紙量大概是1萬5,000令，到112年的統計，已經降到4,000令，所以我們整個很具體的節省大概73%紙的用量。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一年減1%？"],["蘇處長顯星：一年差不多……不只1%。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你剛剛說7%？"],["蘇處長顯星：73%。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一年減73%？"],["蘇處長顯星：95年到112年總共減73%，本來是1萬5,000令……"],["莊委員瑞雄：今年呢？"],["蘇處長顯星：今年預估大概用了……目前113年到現在用三千多令而已。"],["莊委員瑞雄：跟去年減少的幅度做比較呢？"],["蘇處長顯星：因為到113年以後就穩定了，大概都是用4,000令左右。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我的意思就是說，我希望你們有具體的一個指標，一個辦公室3天就那麼可怕，那麼多的辦公室，有點可惜啦！你看程序委員會，大家去都在舉手而已，沒有人在翻，但不備又不行，能夠電子化的盡量電子化啦！好不好？"],["蘇處長顯星：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：另外，我要來幫我們立法院那麼多的助理來談一個問題，我們在立法院工程的問題，浪不浪費這個就是你們自己要好好去做檢討，但是工程方面我不曉得你們有沒有注意到，立法院一天差不多有多少台助理的機車在停，你們知道嗎？有人知道這個問題嗎？差不多就好了，我有請我辦公室去中興大樓算，我跟你說，我曾經去算過，一天有138臺，最少有102臺，辦公室都出動去數機車，數機車要幹什麼？就是說我們下去那個坡道，停在外面的機車不算，我說停在中興大樓底下的，變成說我們地下的坡道是暗藏危機，要特別小心。副秘書長，還是找總務處長，你們討論一下，地下停車場那個坡道可不可以改成比較防滑一點，不然讓那些助理大家尤其在下雨天會提心吊膽，這也不好。立委的沒問題，大家有車，我也很少看到立委騎機車到立法院來，但是助理很多都騎機車，一百多部，放在外面的不算，下去那個地方，我相信你們也收到反映，錢該花在刀口上的還是要去花，好不好？","最後一個問題，我要就教的就是你們都有出入識別卡，出入的這個識別卡，到底那一張的功能有多少種？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員指的是哪一種顏色的嗎？因為它有分不同的顏色。"],["莊委員瑞雄：出入證，你的出入證，我問它的功能啦！你知道它有什麼功能嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：就是識別嘛！"],["莊委員瑞雄：只有識別？那樣不行啦！你看你第一個想的就是識別。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：另外還有就是使用電腦的時候，我們會插卡。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那個都不夠啦！我跟你說，那個都不夠，功能都太過於陽春了，你去看看各縣市政府，它那個識別卡，就是那個出入證，幾乎都有一些門禁、考勤、交通支付，甚至於讓拿的人都會覺得說它是非常有便利性，好好的再去想一下，讓這些使用的人覺得很便利，也體現一下你們對員工的照顧嘛！好不好？比如說，目前最大宗的整合悠遊卡的功能，可以去實現無現金的支付，大幅去提高使用效能。我去福利社也看過那邊有一臺，使用度到底多高不知道，但是這個看得到的問題，沒有所有立法院各局處都在處理議事攻防，沒有這種事嘛！你們各個單位全部都是不同的，這個沒有提升的話代表沒有在做事啊！你不能說立法院都是沒人管的，立法委員都是可以管你們的，怎麼會不能管？只是每一個政黨比較著墨在政治議題，可是立法院該去提升的這個部分跟其他各個單位……立法院耶！是一個院耶！跟地方政府……只有一個出入證、一個識別卡，你們的功能那麼陽春，代表這實在是……就發揮一點創意，然後大家多積極一點，不會的話很簡單啊！問各縣市政府看他們怎麼做的，可以嗎？副秘書長簡單回答一下。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：可以，謝謝委員的提醒，這個部分我們會後來做研究，提升它的功能。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個有必要啦！不然現在真的是太陽春啦！院耶！我們叫做院耶！不要開玩笑，好不好？","立法院遷建跟擴建那件事情，不要再推給各黨團，好不好？你們沒有給人家用一毛錢，沒有去辦保留，然後明年的今年沒有給它編半毛錢，這代表你們以後不是要積極辦理，這個叫做怠惰啦！好不好？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員，我們會辦保留。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員。","副秘，不好意思，我想請教，因為我注意到立委下那個地下通道的時候，會有一個車牌辨識系統，但是同仁下去的時候，機車沒有辦法辨識，可不可以多裝一個？不然我看每一次駐衛警都把他們攔下來，然後還要再找證件，駐衛警有時候還要從管理室跑出來，是不是多裝一個機車的辨識系統？反正是同一套系統嘛！可不可以多裝一個？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：如果技術上面沒有問題的話，我們來研究後續也把這個納入。"],["主席：我想原本的管理系統應該軟體的部分是一樣，就是多一個感應機車車牌的，謝謝。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157742","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157742","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083601345a20229f49e03b1ffdbb9442e4f6e525ce9d933a56c3f762f5bddbbf20da75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"柯志恩","委員發言時間":"09:27:02 - 09:38:32","影片長度":"00:11:30","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:27:02+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:38:32+08:00","duration":690,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":1.3472187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.45221875,"end":7.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.45534375,"end":90.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.48096875,"end":109.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.01846875000001,"end":108.30096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.33034375000001,"end":186.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.58409375000002,"end":194.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":233.34471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.58096875,"end":236.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.66471875000002,"end":250.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.85284375,"end":250.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.77659375000002,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.00534375,"end":283.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.08409375,"end":335.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.35346875000005,"end":312.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.05034375,"end":341.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.98659375,"end":339.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.85534375000003,"end":363.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.31596875,"end":373.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.34409375,"end":383.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.03846875000005,"end":384.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.57846875,"end":388.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.36284375,"end":388.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.35409375,"end":393.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.66159375,"end":397.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.49221875,"end":401.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.98096875000005,"end":448.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.88096875,"end":450.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.93534375,"end":480.51284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.04034375000003,"end":482.62221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.52534375000005,"end":485.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.14909375,"end":486.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.07721875000004,"end":489.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.73096875000005,"end":496.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.37096875000003,"end":498.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.86846875000003,"end":500.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.49284375,"end":503.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.92284375,"end":511.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.61346875000004,"end":513.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.7609687500001,"end":514.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.7859687499999,"end":519.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.2453437500001,"end":520.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.7765937500001,"end":522.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.70034375,"end":524.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.4509687500001,"end":530.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.17596875,"end":531.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.5090937500001,"end":549.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.7278437500001,"end":537.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.1240937499999,"end":539.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.16471875,"end":548.2490937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.97034375,"end":551.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.23159375,"end":558.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.39096875,"end":602.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.84659375,"end":560.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.6015937500001,"end":562.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.04409375,"end":565.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.1984687500001,"end":643.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.4072187500001,"end":645.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.18346875,"end":644.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.0947187500001,"end":651.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.1315937500001,"end":658.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.38784375,"end":662.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":661.88534375,"end":673.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.7197187500001,"end":669.9853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.32284375,"end":671.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":672.43221875,"end":672.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.71471875,"end":676.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.70596875,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":676.83659375,"end":677.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.90784375,"end":680.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.97909375,"end":686.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":685.13909375,"end":687.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.7378437500001,"end":688.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.77971875,"end":690.15096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.249,"end":7.255,"text":"請克制任委員質詢好,謝謝招募,我們是不是請院長好,院長請好,院長早我想延續我們剛剛的話題因為百年故宮這個真的是非常重要的一個指標那我們現在要問為什麼百歲的故宮不如九十歲的一個風華那這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來你看在十年前我們的故宮"},{"start":29.371,"end":32.273,"text":"說實在那時候的人數是540萬之多當然有很多的時代的一個背景但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前你看2015還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第6名這是何等的一個光榮這是台灣之光可是你看看曾幾何時你看我們歷屆的參觀的人數從過去500多萬我們先不要講太久到113年11月的時候你看才達到155萬2000多"},{"start":58.931,"end":61.071,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":85.296,"end":104.811,"text":"不愛故宮了還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好?你覺得真正的原因是什麼?如果委員看前面那張投影片的話當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑最低的時候到41萬人次那現在的話當然拉回來的話以目前來講的話南院大概是90...將近90萬"},{"start":107.113,"end":109.214,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":134.343,"end":135.384,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":150.812,"end":168.284,"text":"所以說你會發現整個從109到11年我這要指出來就是你們的通路承銷商的整體的銷售額是下降的過去大家對於這個故宮的文物是非常非常的熱愛但是呢你雖然說疫情你可能說國外觀光客你可能說入客等等之類但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品啊"},{"start":172.927,"end":173.307,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":195.009,"end":214.582,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":214.802,"end":222.748,"text":"這是很可惜的你這麼多人才來幫你做可是你會發現你看這個新一代的設計產權你的競爭然後你的這個部分來說的話可是你竟然有49%的地方好不好你竟然有28件換了沒有辦法變成衍生商品這是怎麼一回事辦都辦了為什麼沒有把它變成更加的一個開發"},{"start":238.017,"end":259.187,"text":"跟委員報告,就是學生的設計競賽的話基本上是鼓勵學生去從事設計可是設計出來的作品的話,其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發,能不能經濟效益還是一句話啦,好啦,那個院長,這個我們在預算審查社會好好來部分我還是一個強調,故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母這個金雞母現在3比8了,已經瘦巴巴的了"},{"start":263.029,"end":264.731,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":281.527,"end":282.627,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":299.634,"end":300.774,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術"},{"start":322.202,"end":322.242,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":338.663,"end":340.724,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":363.351,"end":388.309,"text":"八位委員那個審議的部分是歸審議的部分目前編列的經費的話就是我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓不是啦我現在只問你嘛我現在只問你那一句嘛你等下解凍了這兩千萬當中你會不會認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過你有沒有跟他做溝通還是你們得到內部的消息你有把握他會不會通過基本上來講我們當然有溝通我們跟那個但是呢結果呢"},{"start":389.978,"end":395.263,"text":"現在就是還是要經過專家審議12月19號如果審議不通過的話目前的經費都沒有還沒有編到那個證管的部分好那我們就來看目前的經費嘛因為我現在大家還是有的你說你那時候我問過你說你要尊重專業其實我們也問過很多專業的一個問題嘛現在目前為止你降低玻璃的高度你的問題還是沒有辦法"},{"start":412.179,"end":413.98,"text":"審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度中央政府總預算審查114年度"},{"start":442.096,"end":443.417,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":466.952,"end":469.093,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":487.236,"end":488.818,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":500.616,"end":519.717,"text":"沒有四樓咖啡廳有啊你給會員啊明明就出現在你們這個地方你要給你們會員嘛很多但是我只要強調一下你說給你的故宮會員專屬的沒有是有你們的誤會嗎還是怎麼樣也許過去有討論過但起碼我到過以後那你就這裡啊你就就就就寫在這裡啊"},{"start":521.178,"end":521.898,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":537.927,"end":538.648,"text":"委員我要澄清一下"},{"start":552.321,"end":561.605,"text":"面板上面講的話四樓會員空間跟右邊那個二樓咖啡廳這是兩塊所以說有沒有專屬的會員使用的空間沒有完全沒有是不是那就把這個部分把它釐清澄清一下因為我看到這個部分看得很細節還有包括你的剛剛說的旅行的費用以小虧大我還是要問一下你看出國的經費因為我們現在審預算"},{"start":579.053,"end":580.254,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":602.244,"end":604.366,"text":"議長寫也給我們寫得好一點好不好而且文物基金會你增加了51.3萬然後你還寫到一個2025要去參加日本國際旅展這是交通部的地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的然後呢2025要義大利的波羅納的童書展那是吳政院的"},{"start":623.948,"end":629.67,"text":"所以你寫這個東西到底對這樣的一個東西到底有什麼我只是提出來這個部分你在編寫這些預算的時候你不覺得應該花一些時間它的最主要的目的是什麼你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務那它背後的原因是什麼你可不可以澄清清楚否則我在質詢預算的時候我會想下來跟你們做進一步的探討好不好寫這個部分你理由是要運用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎是這個理由嗎"},{"start":652.202,"end":652.503,"text":"二、審查114年度"},{"start":659.451,"end":660.552,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":689.842,"end":689.863,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":474,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時27分）謝謝召委，我們是不是請院長。"],["主席：院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員早！"],["柯委員志恩：院長早！我想延續剛剛的話題，因為百年故宮真的是非常重要的一個指標，我們接著要問，為什麼百歲故宮不如90歲風華？這個部分其實有很多的數據可以呈現出來，你看10年前我們的故宮，說實在，那時候的人數是540萬之多，當然有很多的時代背景，但是我們還是不免要緬懷過去10年前，你看2015年還獲得世界博物館人氣排行榜的第六名，這是何等的光榮，這是臺灣之光！可是你看看，曾幾何時，我們歷年參觀的人數從過去五百多萬，我們先不要講太久，到113年11月的時候才達到一百五十五萬兩千多，當然原本故宮已經計畫南、北院目標是350萬人，但是今天北院155萬加上南院80萬，也才235萬，距離你的目標值其實還差了一百多萬，是不是？院長，這個目標值只要一算出來、一加減出來，你就發現跟你當初所預定的方向是有一大段距離的，院長，你覺得是大家不愛故宮了，還是故宮在這一塊的宣傳沒有做得太好，你覺得真正的原因是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：如果委員看前面那一張投影片的話，當然可以知道從2019疫情之後整個下滑，最低的時候到41萬人次，現在當然有拉回來，以目前來講，南院大概是將近90萬，北院的話是168萬。"],["柯委員志恩：不是，院長，到疫情結束之後，顯然整個人數都還是沒有回升，我們從預算來看，參觀如果不如預期，當然會影響到故宮的營收嘛！你看門票收入，2017年的時候還編了12.3億，到明年只編4億，所以疫情前門票收入10億到目前為止，門票就可以看出完全沒有恢復以前的水準。","過去大家認為你們的文物基金還有剩餘1.8億，對不對？108年的時候一億一千多，但是到了110年的時候決算就短絀了三千五百多萬，所以你會發現整個從109到111年，我要指出來的就是你們的通路承銷商整體銷售額下降，過去大家對於故宮的文物是非常、非常熱愛，但是你雖然說疫情、你可能說國外觀光客、你可能說陸客等等之類，但我們總認為你應該在這個時候更努力開發你的文創商品，要來增加你的亮點，做好行銷，你反而是因為遊客變少，這一塊你要著墨，可是再看看你的權利金收入真的是不好，然後重點是你委託合作的承銷商數是近5年來最低，院長，我的意思是你們要很努力，可是你們的承銷商數額竟然是最低，而且你們網路商城的銷售，說實在你的決算也完全往下降，而且重點是我要特別直指一個重點，你辦理國寶衍生商品的設計競賽，很好！還有設計競賽，我們現在人才非常的多，有超過五成的得獎作品沒有把它開發成衍生性文創商品，那你辦這個在幹嘛？這是很可惜的，這麼多人才來幫你做，可是你會發現新一代的設計產學，競爭的部分來說的話，你竟然有49%、28件沒有辦法變成衍生商品，這是怎麼一回事？辦都辦了，為什麼沒有把它變成更佳的開發？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，就是學生的設計競賽的話，基本上是鼓勵學生從事設計，可是設計出來的作品，其實我們要媒合廠商能不能開發、能不能具有經濟效益……"],["柯委員志恩：還是一句話，好了，院長，這個我們在預算審查的時候會好好來討論，我還是強調故宮文物的藝術發展基金過去是一隻金雞母，這個金雞母現在「瘦卑巴」了，已經瘦巴巴了，過去常常幫你們故宮營造非常多的產值，目前來說，真的屢次下降，這個部分你們勢必要提出檢討。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，跟委員報告，當然沒有錯，因為疫情讓整個收支下降，新的開發廠商也會觀望，所以這個部分的話……"],["柯委員志恩：還有剛剛誠如孟楷委員所提到的，其實100年是一個非常好的時間點，包括郵票或是金條，那都不是普羅大眾會做到的，你只不過就是把故宮的元素放進來，一個小小的旅行帶的外面有「朕知道了」或什麼，那個都是引領風潮的，往這個方面去做，有這麼多優秀的成品，把它做一些所謂的改裝、再製，它是可以創造的，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["柯委員志恩：給一些大家比較可以買得上手的，而不是一個這麼樣層次太高的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["柯委員志恩：好了，剩下的時間我還是要問一下有關於新故宮計畫，這個部分來說的話，新故宮計畫原本107年到112年總經費是101億，今年總經費又要開始增加為107億，所以你看看是增加多少？增加了五億八千多萬，整個增幅是44.98%。"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，這個是在核定修正計畫，我到的時候已經核定了。"],["柯委員志恩：對，但是我要特別講，明年的18.8億有沒有辦法執行得完？我們等一下還要來解凍，解凍113年新故宮的2,000萬，我只問一句話嘛！因為新故宮最主要是你的玻璃入口的修正計畫，你有把握臺北市的文資審議會會通過嗎？因為我們等一下要解凍啊！這件事很重要，你有把握文資局會通過嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，審議是歸審議的部分，目前編列經費的話，我們北院的圖書文獻大樓、研究大樓，與南院的國寶館……"],["柯委員志恩：不是啦！我現在只問你那一句嘛！你等一下解凍的這2,000萬當中，你認為北市的文資審議會會不會通過？你有沒有跟它做溝通？還是你們得到內部的消息，你有把握它會不會通過？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，我們當然有溝通，我們跟文化資產……"],["柯委員志恩：但是結果呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在還是要經過專家審議，並不是用溝通就可以……"],["柯委員志恩：12月19號如果審議不通過的話，那這個部分等於又被卡住。"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前的經費都還沒有編到正館的部分。"],["柯委員志恩：好，那我們就來看目前的經費，因為現在大家還是有……那時候我問過，你說你要尊重專業，其實我們也問過很多專業的問題，現在你降低玻璃的高度，目前為止，你的問題還是沒有辦法解決，而且那時候我記得院長已經不斷的告訴我說，那是你尊重專業，但是故宮有沒有自己的意見？我們先看下面一個圖，非常多人，因為故宮給我非常多遠眺的部分，我只要求故宮在入口亭完成之後，你覺得站在這個前面，你說不會擋住，你們都給我一個空拍圖，我現在只問，故宮可不可以給我做一個模擬圖，讓我站在這個前面，這邊有一個玻璃簾幕有沒有辦法把故宮的整個場景全部遮蓋住？我覺得這才是重點嘛！你不要每次給我空拍圖，看不出所以然，我要的是每個人在這個地方。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們有動態模擬圖。"],["柯委員志恩：好，給我一個，我要做模擬，因為我要看得出會不會因為這樣子遮住故宮的全景？因為已經有太多學者專家認為，不要每次都拿羅浮宮，那個跟臺灣是不能比，因為我們臺灣不管緯度、氣候等等，還有包括節能減碳等等都已經不斷地提出呼籲，我覺得故宮要有自己的說法，不是建築師原創是怎麼樣就是怎麼樣。","時間的關係，我再問一下，4樓三希堂的地板真的要敲出八角洞，我記得上次你說完全不會嘛！對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有、沒有，沒有敲出八角……"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以說沒有，然後你就說現在已經確定是不會用了嘛！對不對？確定？"],["蕭院長宗煌：三希堂原則上都不會動。"],["柯委員志恩：所以說安全結構問題，我再問一下，4樓咖啡廳是給會員專用嗎？你們在第113頁的地方，給會員用的？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有4樓咖啡廳。"],["柯委員志恩：有啊！你給會員，明明就出現在你們這個地方，你要給你們會員嘛！但是我只要強調一下，你說給故宮會員專屬的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：是你們有誤會嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也許過去有討論過，但起碼我到了以後，從來沒有……"],["柯委員志恩：就這裡啊！就寫在這裡啊！"],["蕭院長宗煌：那應該是舊的計畫書。"],["柯委員志恩：你送一個舊的計畫書給我喔？現在是怎樣？你送一個舊的給我，然後我在這邊質問你，你告訴我那是舊的，我只強調一點，文化是權利，不是福利。"],["蕭院長宗煌：2樓沒有，4樓沒有咖啡廳……"],["柯委員志恩：回去了解一下。院長，我只強調一件事情，文化是權利，不是福利，它應該是廣闢給人，我也覺得有故宮之友很好，但是在門票、在很多導覽的部分……"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員，我要澄清一下，因為面板上面講的，4樓會員空間跟右邊的2樓咖啡廳，這是兩塊，4樓沒有咖啡廳。"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以有沒有專屬的會員使用空間？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["柯委員志恩：完全沒有是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：沒有。"],["柯委員志恩：那就把這個部分釐清、澄清一下，因為我這個部分看得很細節，還有包括你剛剛說的旅行費用，以小窺大，我還是要問一下，你看出國的經費，因為我們現在要審預算嘛！我覺得出國預算都沒有問題，但是你們的寫法，你看考察地緣政治的圖像：東亞國際外交的合縱連橫，拜託！地緣政治、國際外交、合縱連橫，這是你們博物館該做的事嗎？寫法可不可以寫得更清楚一下？而且要是東亞國際，英國是東亞嗎？院長，寫也寫得好一點，好不好？還有文物基金會增加了51.3萬，然後你還寫到2025年要去參加日本國際旅展，這是交通部的；地緣政治是國防部的或是外交部的；然後2025年義大利波隆那童書展，那是文策院的，所以你寫這個到底對這樣的東西有什麼……我只是提出來這個部分，你在編寫這些預算的時候，你不覺得應該花一些時間在它最重要的目的是什麼？你讓大家覺得這些都不是你們家的業務，它背後的原因是什麼？你可不可以澄清清楚？否則我在質詢預算的時候，我會詳細跟你們做進一步的探討。"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK，好，這個我們會處理。"],["柯委員志恩：好不好？寫這個部分的理由是要利用人很多的時候去宣傳故宮嗎？是這個理由嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：不是，因為波隆那的部分，我們希望跟他們出版商的童書合作，把故宮的文物改變成可以上國際市場的一個……"],["柯委員志恩：那你國際旅展也都是這個部分。然後你的地緣政治到底要幹嘛？前面那一頁的地緣政治寫了這麼多，合縱連橫，看的我都說故宮目前在什麼地方。"],["蕭院長宗煌：那是一個跟英國單位合作的……"],["柯委員志恩：寫清楚、寫清楚，你不要每次一列出來就跟我們要這些錢，你的預算書裡面，很多人都會看得很細節的，好不好？院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，我們會給委員一個書面說明。"],["柯委員志恩：更清楚的目的，好不好？謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員。"],["主席（柯委員志恩代）：我們現在請萬美玲召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157741","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157741","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836066eac3e41394593e2ad4098cec3b17fd525ce9d933a56c3fdaa114f3341ed6a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"09:13:36 - 09:26:32","影片長度":"00:12:56","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:13:36+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:26:32+08:00","duration":776,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.054718750000003,"end":10.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.57784375,"end":16.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.93971875,"end":17.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.71096875,"end":31.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.75721875,"end":24.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.08096875,"end":88.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.43909375000001,"end":93.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.76721875000001,"end":95.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.67846875000001,"end":96.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.63596875,"end":99.61034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.81284375000001,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.47034375000001,"end":159.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.12409375000001,"end":192.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.13159375,"end":193.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.09346875,"end":194.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.32534375,"end":201.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.39596875,"end":203.40846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.91034375,"end":206.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.03659375,"end":219.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.72659375,"end":234.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.79284375,"end":228.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.07971875,"end":228.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.78346875000003,"end":239.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.76596875,"end":243.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.61784375000002,"end":241.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.52471875,"end":248.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.59971875000002,"end":249.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.81471875000003,"end":268.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.18471875,"end":258.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.79909375,"end":278.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.82284375,"end":279.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.92409375,"end":282.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.16409375,"end":325.92096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.66596875,"end":284.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.29221875,"end":354.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.26659375,"end":394.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.70471875000004,"end":360.19409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.15159375,"end":363.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.88909375000003,"end":466.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.37784375,"end":426.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.98659375000005,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.02846875,"end":450.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.96221875000003,"end":484.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.22096875000005,"end":500.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.11721875,"end":548.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.25721875,"end":583.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.9228437500001,"end":584.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.96909375,"end":588.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.1203437500001,"end":593.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.6003437500001,"end":624.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.79846875,"end":597.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.30846875,"end":629.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.0422187500001,"end":645.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.14346875,"end":630.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.4578437499999,"end":643.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.73596875,"end":673.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.07659375,"end":654.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.8484687499999,"end":655.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.3840937500001,"end":656.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.5122187500001,"end":681.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.86534375,"end":695.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.66909375,"end":723.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.71909375,"end":700.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.5972187500001,"end":773.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":773.5134687500001,"end":775.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.88471875,"end":774.6440937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.1,"end":16.314,"text":"好主席我們周秘書長那張副秘書長那我想有請張副秘書長副秘書長"},{"start":23.725,"end":48.991,"text":"副秘書長早今天是要審議我們立法院的預算那我還是想就一些議題來請教副秘書長近幾年因為公部門的這個霸凌事件引發社會各界對公務員身心健康的一個關注而近幾年由人事總署所推動的員工協助方案也是政府這個重要的政策之一希望能夠透過工作面生活面健康面的協助來減緩壓力所帶來的問題"},{"start":52.112,"end":73.034,"text":"立法院作為中央最高的民意機構更應該要以身作則妥善的照顧工作夥伴在我們剛剛秘書長的報告當中也提到立法院在114年度工作重點項目中也包括辦理員工協助方案以及促進同仁身心健康並且能夠建構友善職場的環境"},{"start":74.515,"end":93.848,"text":"立法院從113年也就是今年開始在和廠商合作辦理員工協助的這個方案實際所提供的這個服務面向以及使用的人次事務缺乏資料的參考是不是請教我們副秘書長員工協助方案在今年具體使用的這個情形為何"},{"start":98.185,"end":125.245,"text":"謝謝委員的關心首先我就委員所詢問的這個員工協助方案的辦理情形這個部分來先表達一下目前的做法第一個我們一個員工協助方案是113年的時候他就委託了這個語聯管理顧問有限公司來辦理那細部的部分等一下這個人事處長可以再做補充"},{"start":126.785,"end":147.535,"text":"這是第一個另外我們也開設了精神科門診這由本院的醫務室每週一上午來開設精神科門診由臺大醫院的精神科醫師來助診提供本院同仁如果有需求的話可以來做醫療服務第三個我們還有一個轉介機制如果有需要的話"},{"start":148.295,"end":176.156,"text":"也可以透過這樣的轉接的機制來作為我們這個協助的一個方法另外剛委員有提到的那個霸凌的這個部分在這邊我一併來作為簡單說明本院他有訂立一個立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要點那這個部分我們也簽封那個院長來核定了"},{"start":177.136,"end":203.324,"text":"在5月1日的時候也含之本院各單位相關的一個宣導的資料已經放在立法院院內的一個支援入口網站提供有需要的同仁或者是員工來做一個參考以上說明謝謝好那剛剛講的這個員工協助方案我們到底使用率是普及還是說高還是低簡單回答就好了"},{"start":204.964,"end":204.984,"text":"請證書處長來陪"},{"start":207.356,"end":234.179,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們委託那個語聯公司來承包這個員工協助方案那相關的資料因為都涉及個人的隱私那當然語聯顧問公司他也有提供一個他每半年就會提供一個使用的報告給我們那那個報告他有給我們是不是我們會後提供給委員來參考他使用的那個次數都有一定的那個統計有各項不同的使用的方法我剛剛問的"},{"start":235.16,"end":237.985,"text":"是不是可以透過這個問卷調查來掌握員工實際的需求有沒有可能"},{"start":248.886,"end":248.906,"text":"問卷"},{"start":279.066,"end":305.416,"text":"如果透過文件可能就會比較涉及個人的隱私部分那會後再提供我剛剛講的資料那在明年度立法院的這個預算當中已經辦理員工協助方案列入工作的這個計畫了相較在上年度這個同項目的這個預算編列從帳面上來看我們僅增加了12萬2000元如果將多出來的這個部分作為員工協助方案的這個預算其實也不算太充裕"},{"start":305.896,"end":326.288,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":326.808,"end":353.586,"text":"謝謝委員這個部分其實在我們在這個評估明年的這個委託案的時候其實也有去考慮到那我也請人事處把這個去年的一個執行清新提供一個資料給我據我的了解那個求助的人數其實基本上並沒有那麼多那我們是用一個類似同胞的方式如果說有需要的同仁的話就去那邊來請求協助那目前為止"},{"start":355.247,"end":361.19,"text":"除了一般的這個個案之外我們各部門當中可能會遇到危機個案或是非自願的這個個案那我們的人事單位應該依據機關的實際情況來妥善規劃標準作業的程序"},{"start":379.241,"end":393.888,"text":"那但在目前立法院似乎還缺乏相關的這種預防措施或是這個緊急事件的處理機制我想再就叫我們副秘書長是否也應該完善危機或是非自願個案的這種預防和處理的流程"},{"start":395.289,"end":416.701,"text":"謝謝委員 這個部分在上個禮拜我也就這個部分因為有一些新聞事件媒體這些公開我們也積極來就這個部分來做一些相關的一個預防或者規劃總務處的部分也召開了一些就職場霸凌的部分的防治來做一些統整"},{"start":417.461,"end":443.977,"text":"那我有特別麻煩那個我們主辦的局處就是人事處在印一些我們的那個貼紙就是那個宣導的貼紙目前我們大家可以看到目前有的是那個性騷擾的那個貼紙房子的貼紙那我們就說那我們的那個職場辦理的部分是不是也應該用這樣的一個方式讓我們的需要的有需要同仁必須要事實來求助的時候能夠馬上可以知道那個"},{"start":444.557,"end":444.697,"text":"委員會主管"},{"start":467.257,"end":483.756,"text":"當有這個職場霸凌的事件發生的時候需要更完善的處理機制來即使因應那近期因為許多這個政府機關傳出這種案例社會大眾也聚焦於公部門這個霸凌事件那立法院去年也曾經"},{"start":485.325,"end":498.699,"text":"有過職員公開陳情表示受到長官言語的霸凌我想再請教副部長在您上任的這期間有沒有接到員工的霸凌的申訴目前沒有"},{"start":501.294,"end":523.833,"text":"當然能夠不發生霸凌事件是我們最理想的一個目標那也需要完善的處理流程院內工作同仁既有適用公務員法令的職員也有勞工身份的公費助理那因為身份別的不同遭遇到霸凌事件的時候法規和申訴流程恐怕也有差異"},{"start":525.034,"end":546.914,"text":"尤其是這個助理身份更特殊是應該以發薪水的這個立法院還是僱主委員為主現行的這個立法院防霸凌的處理作業要點中也僅將員工區分不同受理的單位我想再請教我們副部長若我們這個院內的職員和公費助理遭受到霸凌的時候分別應該要向這個誰來申訴"},{"start":550.287,"end":579.579,"text":"目前目前的申訴案件我們基本上是會受理的那當然剛剛委員提到了不同的這個身分別的時候是不是有不同的程序我想這個部分的確是有這樣的一個狀況目前我們也目前正在檢討說我們是不是把我們的那個申訴處理作業要點能夠把它擴大擴及到所有的我們在我們這個立法院這個場域裡面工作的所有的人員"},{"start":585.061,"end":593.064,"text":"有一個問題我想請教我們的這個當事人如果申訴的時候能不能受到一個比較完善的一個保護"},{"start":595.626,"end":623.865,"text":"沒問題吧?沒問題沒問題那職場霸凌的這個案件當中時常是這個首長或是主管藉著不同等的這個權力來霸凌員工那在立法院當中權力位階最高的可能就是113位的這個立法委員那如果今天發生在這個立委霸凌職員或是助理甚至是反過來受到這個職場霸凌造成委員就是案件的這個當事人的時候立法院是否能夠介入來處理或調查"},{"start":627.318,"end":643.579,"text":"基本上這個部分我們請那個處長來這個應該是副秘書長你要回答怎麼會請處長我來回答這個部分其實立法委員他有一個特別的身份當然在我們的國會裡頭他有一個特權那當然這個特權不包含霸凌的這個部分"},{"start":645.742,"end":673.49,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":673.77,"end":694.422,"text":"委員應該要有領導職能的這個平治平和的這個機制在現行的公務人員升遷這個升遷法當中徵定若是主管職務應該平和其領導能力我想請教這個副部長多年來作為這個機關的重要主管是否也認同法治局提出的這種建議"},{"start":695.743,"end":723.093,"text":"就這個部分我先給答案好了基本上我是認同的認同的原因是在於說其實所有在機關服務的同仁應該都是一致的除了業務有那個職務的高低以外就於人的本質的部分他應該受到這個基本的尊重這個應該是大家的那個普世價值所以說我經常在新進同仁報到以後我會找時間去看一下新進同仁他的對於我們"},{"start":723.473,"end":723.693,"text":"多關心喔"},{"start":748.345,"end":748.365,"text":"謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":209,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（9時13分）主席、周秘書長、張副秘書長。有請張副秘書長。"],["主席：張副秘書長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：副秘書長早。今天要審議立法院的預算，我還是想就一些議題來請教副秘書長。近期內因為公部門霸凌事件，引發社會各界對公務員身心健康的關注，而近幾年由人事總處所推動的員工協助方案，也是政府重要的政策之一，希望能夠透過工作面、生活面、健康面的協助，減緩壓力所帶來的問題。立法院作為中央最高的民意機構，更應該要以身作則，妥善照顧工作夥伴。在剛剛秘書長的報告當中也提到，立法院114年度工作重點項目也包括辦理員工協助方案以及促進同仁身心健康，並且能夠建構友善職場環境。立法院從113年，也就是今年開始和廠商合作辦理員工協助方案，實際所提供的服務面向以及使用人次似乎缺乏資料供參考。請教副秘書長，員工協助方案在今年具體使用的情形為何？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員的關心。首先就委員所詢問的員工協助方案辦理情形，先表達一下目前的作法。第一個，我們有一個員工協助方案，是113年就委託了宇聯管理顧問有限公司來辦理，有關細部的部分，等一下人事處長可以再補充。這是第一個。另外，我們也開設了精神科門診，由本院醫務室每週一上午開設精神科門診，由臺大醫院的精神科醫師來駐診，本院同仁如果有需求的話，可以提供醫療服務。第三個，我們還有一個轉介機制，如果個案有需要的話，也可以透過這樣的轉介機制作為協助的一個方法。","另外，剛剛委員有提到霸凌的部分，我在這邊也一併簡單說明。本院有訂立立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要點，這個部分我們也簽奉院長核定了，那在5月1號也函知本院各單位，相關宣導資料已經放在立法院院內資源入口網站，提供有需要的同仁或者是員工來參考。以上說明，謝謝。"],["陳委員俊宇：剛剛講的這個員工協助方案，到底使用率是普及，還是高，還是低？簡單回答就好了。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：請人事處長來說明。"],["黃處長瑞月：跟委員報告，因為我們委託宇聯公司來承包這個員工協助方案，相關資料因為涉及個人的隱私，當然，宇聯顧問公司每半年就會提供一個使用的報告給我們，有關那個報告，它有給我們，是不是我們會後提供給委員來參考？它使用的次數都有一定的統計，也有各種不同的使用方案。"],["陳委員俊宇：我剛剛問的是，我們使用的情形是很普遍的，還是說使用率偏低？"],["黃處長瑞月：其實沒有那麼高啦！"],["陳委員俊宇：沒有那麼高？"],["黃處長瑞月：對、對、對，因為我們還是有宣傳。"],["陳委員俊宇：沒關係，我們是不是可以透過這個問卷調查來掌握員工實際的需求？有沒有可能？"],["黃處長瑞月：問卷？因為這個比較涉及個人的隱私，也有強調不是機關可以強制或介入，但因為這個員工協助，依照規定除非他有自傷或傷人，機關才可以強制介入，不然的話，我們就是宣導，也會跟員工說有需要真的可以尋求協助，如果不知道的話，都可以到我們人事處來詢問那個方案，所以如果透過問卷，可能就會比較涉及個人的隱私部分。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，會後再提供我剛剛講的資料。"],["黃處長瑞月：是。"],["陳委員俊宇：在明年度立法院的預算當中，已經將辦理員工協助方案列入工作計畫。相較在上年度同項目的預算編列，從帳面上來看，我們僅增加了12萬2,000元，如果將多出來的部分作為員工協助方案的預算，其實也不算太充裕，尤其在立法院的預算額有553位職員，若將上千名的公費助理也納入的話，並以市場行情諮商費用來估算，能夠使用的人次恐怕還是相當有限。我還是再就教副秘書長，如果要擴大員工協助方案，會不會有資源不足的疑慮？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員，這個部分在我們評估明年委託案的時候其實也有考慮到，我也請人事處把去年的執行情形提供一些資料給我，據我了解，求助人數其實基本上並沒有那麼多。"],["陳委員俊宇：是。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們是用一個類似統包的方式，有需要的同仁就去那邊請求協助，目前為止，人數的部分沒有那麼多。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以我們目前編列的預算還是夠支用？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：夠的，這個部分是沒有問題的。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，除了一般個案之外，我們各部門當中可能會遇到危機個案或是非自願的個案，我們的人事單位應該依據機關實際情況來妥善規劃標準作業程序，但在目前立法院似乎還缺乏相關這種預防措施或是緊急事件的處理機制，我想再就教副秘書長，是否也應該完善危機或是非自願個案的這種預防和處理的流程？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員，在上個禮拜，我也就這個部分，因為有一些新聞事件媒體有公開，我們也積極來就這個部分做一些相關的預防或者規劃，總務處的部分也針對職場霸凌防制來做一些統整，我有特別麻煩我們主辦的局處人事處再印一些我們宣導的貼紙，大概可以看到目前有性騷擾防制的貼紙，有關職場霸凌的部分是不是也應該用這樣一個方式，讓我們有需要同仁必須適時來求助的時候，能夠馬上可以知道那個管道是什麼。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以聽起來，我們還在研擬當中？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前有在做了。"],["陳委員俊宇：已經在做了？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，進行中，已經在做了，是。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，員工協助方案應該作為這個防護網的建置，減少員工受到各種壓力的影響，落實友善職場的環境建構，讓我們的工作同仁都能夠受到關懷和照顧，當有職場霸凌事件發生的時候，需要更完善的處理機制來即時因應，近期因為許多政府機關傳出這種案例，社會大眾也聚焦於公部門霸凌事件，立法院去年也曾經有過職員公開陳情，表示受到長官言語的霸凌，我想再請教副秘書長，在您上任的這期間，有沒有接到員工霸凌的申訴？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：報告委員，目前沒有。"],["陳委員俊宇：沒有，好。當然，能夠不發生霸凌事件是我們最理想的一個目標，也需要完善的處理流程，院內工作同仁既有適用公務員法令的職員，也有勞工身分的這種公費助理，因為身分別的不同，遭遇到霸凌事件時，法規和申訴流程恐怕也有差異，尤其是助理身分更特殊，應該是以發薪水的立法院還是雇主委員為主？現行立法院防霸凌處理作業要點中，也僅將員工區分不同受理的單位，我想再請教副秘書長，若院內的職員和公費助理遭受到霸凌的時候，分別應該要向誰來申訴？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我先大概簡單回答一下，如果不足的話，人事處處長再做補充，目前的申訴案件，我們基本上就會受理，當然剛剛委員有提到不同身分別是不是有不同的程序，我想這個部分的確是有這樣一個狀況，目前也正在檢討是不是把我們的申訴處理作業要點能夠把它擴大，擴及到在我們立法院這個場域裡面工作的所有人員，這樣子的話，能夠更完善我們的申訴管道，謝謝。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，有一個問題我想請教，我們的當事人如果申訴的時候，能不能受到一個比較完善的保護？沒問題吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：沒有問題、沒有問題，這部分。"],["陳委員俊宇：職場霸凌的案件當中，時常是首長或是主管藉著不同等的權力來霸凌員工，在立法院當中，權力位階最高的可能就是113位立法委員，如果今天發生立委霸凌職員或是助理，甚至是反過來受到職場霸凌，造成委員就是案件的當事人時，立法院是否能夠介入來處理或調查？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，這個部分我們請處長來……"],["陳委員俊宇：這應該是副秘書長你要回答，怎麼會請處長？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，我來回答。"],["陳委員俊宇：對啊！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分，其實立法委員有一個特別的身分，當然在我們的國會裡頭，他有一個特權，當然這個特權不包含霸凌的部分，有關霸凌的部分，如果從我們訂定的要點裡頭，那個方向，其實基本上都是可以適用的，即便是一個立法委員。"],["陳委員俊宇：可以適用？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，可以適用。"],["陳委員俊宇：應該要如何將立委納入這個相關規範，我希望我們也是要有一套標準。最近也有媒體報導，在法制局對於公部門職場霸凌的法制研析當中，建議對機關首長和各級主管人員應該要有領導職能評核的機制，在現行的公務人員陞遷法當中，增訂若是主管職務應該評核其領導能力。我想請教副秘書長，多年來作為機關的重要主管，是否也認同法制局提出的這種建議？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：就這個部分，我先給答案好了，基本上我是認同的，至於做法……"],["陳委員俊宇：認同？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對，認同的原因是在於，其實所有在機關服務的同仁應該都是一致的，除了業務有職務的高低以外，就人的本質部分，他應該受到基本的尊重，這個應該是普世價值，所以我經常在新進同仁報到以後找時間去看一下新進同仁，對於他在這個場域裡面工作時的適應狀況，去關心一下、了解一下，主要也就是希望新進同仁在新的場域裡頭能夠適應我們的生態，能夠專心於業務，然後對於主管的部分也會做一個提醒，多協助我們的新進同仁，不要讓新進同仁有不適應感或有其他的狀況發生，以上。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，多關心啦！"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，不論是對於事前的預防，還是事中的介入和保護，或是事後的處理和懲處，建構友善職場和防治霸凌的這種機制，都需要更全面的檢討和資源的投入，我也希望我們立法院能夠以身作則，真正來落實、杜絕霸凌事件，將我們立法院建置為一個友善的職場。以上，謝謝。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：當然，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157740","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157740","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083607a192a78d059cb93b1ffdbb9442e4f6e525ce9d933a56c3f664dd9db077cb6475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:14:00 - 09:26:52","影片長度":"00:12:52","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T09:14:00+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T09:26:52+08:00","duration":772,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.19971875,"end":1.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.902843750000002,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.704093750000002,"end":13.446593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.74971875,"end":20.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.50909375,"end":18.660968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.74534375,"end":18.762218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.43284375,"end":28.836593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.612843750000003,"end":30.254093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.254093750000003,"end":30.304718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.59159375,"end":30.625343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.625343750000003,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.65909375,"end":30.675968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.675968750000003,"end":31.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.43534375,"end":44.580968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.580968750000004,"end":50.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.588468750000004,"end":56.14034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.34721875,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.962218750000005,"end":62.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.21534375,"end":62.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.19409375,"end":74.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.56784375000001,"end":74.73659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.73659375000001,"end":74.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.83784375,"end":74.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.85471875,"end":74.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.93909375,"end":78.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.88346875,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.07721875,"end":95.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.64596875000001,"end":87.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.81471875000001,"end":87.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.77971875,"end":96.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.58971875,"end":108.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.44846875,"end":142.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.02971875,"end":151.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.64534375,"end":145.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.55159375000002,"end":189.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.95909375000002,"end":205.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.99034375000002,"end":226.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.10096875000002,"end":230.79659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.42096875000001,"end":234.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.38659375,"end":239.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.51659375000003,"end":248.65034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.39284375000003,"end":249.93284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.47284375,"end":264.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.06596875,"end":262.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.09096875,"end":265.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.95971875000004,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.01034375,"end":267.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.75284375,"end":291.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.17971875,"end":314.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.44159375000004,"end":333.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.15596875,"end":335.23596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.65784375000004,"end":366.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.53909375,"end":392.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.22346875000005,"end":388.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.27346875,"end":403.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.91721875,"end":411.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.31284375,"end":447.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.75846875,"end":451.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.80846875000003,"end":484.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.59659375,"end":497.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.72096875000005,"end":508.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.33159375,"end":507.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.56346875,"end":519.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.9497187500001,"end":536.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.1372187500001,"end":537.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.05659375,"end":555.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.71846875,"end":541.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.3503437500001,"end":549.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.82659375,"end":552.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.22721875,"end":553.7165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.3828437500001,"end":562.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.97284375,"end":563.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.35221875,"end":587.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.8884687500001,"end":588.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.89659375,"end":600.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.67159375,"end":632.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.8940937500001,"end":606.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.23159375,"end":606.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":632.4553437500001,"end":632.9953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.38346875,"end":635.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.04971875,"end":648.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.3859687500001,"end":644.6728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.09409375,"end":654.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.89096875,"end":653.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.00034375,"end":656.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.2365937500001,"end":662.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":662.74596875,"end":663.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.8172187499999,"end":666.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.1884687500001,"end":680.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.49846875,"end":682.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.9622187500001,"end":685.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.42159375,"end":714.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":715.2609687500001,"end":717.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.5222187500001,"end":722.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.6609687499999,"end":722.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.4665937500001,"end":722.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.4834687500002,"end":722.6015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.6015937500001,"end":722.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.8884687500001,"end":724.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.0234687500001,"end":749.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.2465937500001,"end":726.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.1809687500001,"end":742.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.2434687500001,"end":748.4540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":749.2978437500001,"end":752.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.4284687500001,"end":754.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.57534375,"end":768.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.1740937500001,"end":759.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.55721875,"end":766.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.82659375,"end":768.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.61534375,"end":770.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":770.2903437500001,"end":770.4253437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.396,"end":24.432,"text":"紅孟楷委員質詢主席謝謝,麻煩請蕭院長蕭院長請委員長院長好,院長故宮最近最熱鬧的時候是不是11月30號馬鷹九基金會邀請陸生團參訪故宮的時候"},{"start":29.599,"end":33.544,"text":"不過不管怎麼樣這還是一個文化交流嘛,院長支持這樣的文化交流嗎?"},{"start":50.929,"end":76.35,"text":"基本上來講的話故宮支持文化交流各項……所有樣的文化文化是全體人類的文化是不分任何政治意識形態的故宮張開雙手歡迎各界的人就是說不管政黨不管國籍只要他可以入境到台灣的話基本上來講都經過一個合法的程序所以我們都以客為尊對那所以院長會認為說這是一種統戰嗎"},{"start":82.155,"end":95.275,"text":"政治的解讀的話當然就是故宮的沒有辦法理解的啦那故宮基本上來講對任何的觀眾他們用一種非常合理的一個正常的參觀方式我們都歡迎"},{"start":96.717,"end":124.036,"text":"其實有接待這次參訪團的101董事長賈永傑他也講他們來玩我們來玩大家都開心不用那麼嚴肅那一樣的道理對岸的民眾或是對岸的朋友13億人如果說都能夠來台灣都能夠來參訪故宮看一下故宮的文物以前是課本裡面看到的現在可以看到實體的一個部分清明上河圖翠玉白菜我想這都是非常好的一個事情"},{"start":125.177,"end":142.057,"text":"只要兩岸開放交流更多人來看其實某種程度上這反而是一種文化的提升所以院長我說實在話我們覺得說是不是應該要更鼓勵或說更有自信能夠讓更多世界的觀光客都來故宮來參訪"},{"start":143.899,"end":168.258,"text":"這是故宮努力的目標怎麼樣提升所有的參觀不管是國人或是國際人士的話都是故宮努力的目標是 所以院長我當然你可能比較少時間有辦法說這個參與我們這個政府這些的一個決策但如果說有機會我還是要呼籲跟建議也要適時的跟上面來反映尤其是我們的賴政府就是說兩岸和平的關鍵"},{"start":169.139,"end":188.95,"text":"如果說能夠更開放兩岸能夠有更溝通的管道甚至兩岸現在觀光卡住我覺得故宮扮演某種程度上也是一個觀光交流也是一個文化交流能夠有更多人來的話我相信一定會對於我們的觀光市場也會更活絡那也可以提升更多故宮的參觀人數是不是這樣子"},{"start":190.498,"end":205.715,"text":"對於兩岸開放的話當然故宮也是樂觀其成那我們希望說在兩岸一個有共識有和平的一個基礎下有更多的大陸那邊的民眾可以來台灣參觀這個故宮非常的期待"},{"start":206.015,"end":234.14,"text":"好,那另外一點我們現在故宮的狀況明年是百年願慶那明年百年願慶的時候我有看到我們的一個預算的部分有增加說我們要去捷克法國辦理相關的特展那也有文物基金會派員新增出去考察包括日本以及義大利的一個考察那院長是不是也能夠跟國人來說明或是來解釋一下除了我們派員出去"},{"start":235.504,"end":241.352,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":249.4,"end":250.921,"text":"現在這些宣傳業務都到"},{"start":266.96,"end":292.922,"text":"觀光署到觀光署但觀光署的話他們宣傳的重點目前看來的話都是國家風景區或是國家公園就比較少提到故宮這個部分的話我打算在過年以後一月份以後再找相關的外交部觀光署這些單位請他們來協助看能不能就是用一種整合的方式然後做一個整體的一個是院長你講的就是本席接下來想問的"},{"start":293.643,"end":315.213,"text":"獎項獎項獎"},{"start":316.527,"end":332.918,"text":"除了一些警官除了101等等我們也希望是大家能夠知道說故宮文物在這邊然後更多人來參觀但你看喔其實從最近一次疫情前2019年外國籍的旅客一年佔300萬人"},{"start":335.74,"end":358.074,"text":"但是到2023年疫情過後外國籍的旅客一年只不到百萬只有72萬多人到今年的統計目前為止也將近是70萬人左右所以我們現在外國籍的旅客不到疫情前的三分之一那我們也希望是說那你能不能夠有更多的讓外國籍的旅客知道是說來台灣除了"},{"start":358.894,"end":360.055,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":378.137,"end":402.663,"text":"國立故宮在台灣,文物在台灣那你剛剛講是說要到明年1月,明年1月的時候總預算大家都審過啦明年的計畫大家都已經報完啦明年的計畫大家都已經確認了,這樣來得及嗎?根文報告,其實我們那個提升國際的能量的這個計畫這個國際戰略計畫其實我們在今年有做了那...多少費用?上個月"},{"start":404.123,"end":426.853,"text":"有時候我不能明確去編一個預算說我這個東西叫做多少費用不是院長你不能明確編一個預算那就代表說你有沒有執行真的想要做這個核心的業務這一個部分另外是說即便我剛開宗明義強調故宮的本預算其實放眼到我們中華民國政府總預算來講其實是杯水車薪啦相對少啊"},{"start":427.313,"end":429.755,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":447.848,"end":473.408,"text":"文化的台灣觀光的台灣美食的台灣娛樂的台灣那其中一個文化的台灣當然要故宮啊但我現在講的是說到目前為止你的報告書第一明年的計畫是沒有這一項你沒有跨域的整合的雄心壯志那第二你自己本預算也沒有辦法編然後又沒有去整合的話那這樣子我們怎麼樣期待明年我們的觀光客能夠到達300萬"},{"start":475.109,"end":477.49,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":498.766,"end":518.197,"text":"那到目前為止我現在講的是說到2013年2023年2024年國外觀光客都只有70幾萬不到疫情前的三分之一我們今年本來預估大概127萬大概少了50萬因為原來疫情的話就是邊境入客會開放可是沒有開放所以的確是少了"},{"start":519.838,"end":522.34,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":538.08,"end":540.702,"text":"議長,我能不能要求,因為我們接下來要審相關故宮的預算,那我覺得這一塊真的是重要。"},{"start":556.471,"end":583.7,"text":"你沒有辦法編列在故宮本預算裡面但你至少你要怎麼樣想方設法拉資源整合拉觀光署拉外交部拉其他部會來告訴說你們要宣傳你們要有任何的這個文化甚至我們故宮不一定有錢但是我們可以有什麼樣的圖資什麼樣的協助讓你能夠更推廣能不能在預算審查我們逐條進入到實質審查的時候你有這樣的一個明確的一個計畫"},{"start":584.74,"end":588.324,"text":"讓我們能夠了解那我們這樣預算審查的時候更能夠支持"},{"start":590.412,"end":615.879,"text":"跟委員報告這個沒有問題因為我們本來就在做而且我們那個計畫概念概構想的話那個基本上來講是有的我希望之後在主條之前可以提出可以提供本席跟我們教文委員會的委員這個計畫的參考好不好那另外最後一分鐘我有看到是說故宮現在有跟屈臣氏這個商店做什麼跨界合作推出系列的品牌商品"},{"start":617.22,"end":635.538,"text":"本席其實認為是說如果說能夠讓文物結合商品本席這個方向本席是認同不過我現在想請教明年百年願慶我們有沒有什麼比較特別的紀念商品是一定要讓國人或是外國人士來台灣一定非買不可有沒有能不能先拿出來大家批判一下"},{"start":635.998,"end":663.643,"text":"議長議長"},{"start":666.328,"end":685.784,"text":"這不好笑啦我要的是本席真的是站在一個期待跟鼓勵的立場對於行政部會來講有專業我們是支持但是我們真的希望是說百年我們能夠人生有幾個一百年我們這次一百年之後下一個一百年我們都不在了"},{"start":686.536,"end":714.195,"text":"所以這個百年其實我覺得是非常重要的時刻那我們能夠怎麼樣不管是借用民間的創意借用什麼樣的一個力量我們去想一個東西是明年百年每一個來故宮一定非買不可這個東西是很特別的我們如果說沒有買沒有來來台灣沒有來故宮白來了來故宮沒有買這樣的一個商品沒有買這樣的紀念品白來了要有這樣的一個雄心壯志所以說拜託"},{"start":715.356,"end":736.951,"text":"院長除了剛剛公使仔游跳我知道啦紀念酒紀念幣這個都是一般這個都老掉牙嘛那怎麼樣來想比較那有沒有有什麼我覺得這個東西才是重點這東西也才是真的能夠讓我們從文物故宮精神以及人民的日常生活裡面來結合不是說要你做一個"},{"start":737.992,"end":742.294,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":755.629,"end":763.455,"text":"我們要來看到這樣的一個部分,好不好?這才是我們真的能夠支持我們編出來的預算,是不是能夠把錢花在刀口上的時辰。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":404,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時14分）主席謝謝，麻煩請蕭院長。"],["主席：蕭院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：委員早。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長好。院長，故宮最近最熱鬧的時候是不是11月30號馬英九基金會邀請陸生團參訪故宮的時候？滿熱鬧的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：那天場面是有點比較、稍微熱鬧一點、混亂一點，因為有很多不是原來預期要來參訪故宮的民眾就衝過來了。"],["洪委員孟楷：不管怎麼樣，這還是一個文化交流嘛！院長支持這樣的文化交流嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，故宮支持各項文化交流。"],["洪委員孟楷：所有的文化，文化是全體人類的，文化是不分任何政治意識形態的，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮張開雙手，歡迎各界的人，不管政黨、不管國籍，只要他可以入境臺灣，基本上來講都是經過合法的程序，所以我們都以客為尊。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長會認為這是一種統戰嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：政治的解讀當然是故宮沒有辦法理解的，故宮基本上來講，對任何觀眾，只要他們是用一種非常合理、正常的參觀方式，我們都歡迎。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。其實有接待這次參訪團的101董事長賈永婕也講，他們來玩、我們來玩，大家都開心，不用那麼嚴肅。一樣的道理，對岸的民眾或對岸的朋友有13億人，如果都能來臺灣、都能參訪故宮，看一下故宮的文物，以前是課本裡面看到的，現在可以看到實體的部分，像是清明上河圖、翠玉白菜，我想這些都是非常好的事情。只要兩岸開放交流，有更多的人來看，其實某種程度上，這反而是一種文化的提升。所以院長，我說實在話，我們覺得是不是應該要更鼓勵，或是更有自信能夠讓更多世界的觀光客都來故宮參訪？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這是故宮努力的目標，怎麼樣提升所有的參觀，不管是國人或是國際人士，都是故宮努力的目標。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以院長，我當然……你可能比較少有時間參與政府的這些決策，但如果說有機會的話，我還是要呼籲跟建議，也要適時地跟上面反映，尤其是我們的賴政府。也就是說兩岸和平的關鍵，如果能更開放兩岸溝通的管道，甚至兩岸觀光現在卡住了，我覺得故宮某種程度上也扮演著觀光交流、文化交流的角色，能夠有更多人來的話，相信一定會讓我們的觀光市場更活絡，也可以提升更多故宮的參觀人數，是不是這樣？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對於兩岸開放，故宮當然是樂觀其成，我們希望在兩岸有共識、有和平的基礎下，有更多大陸民眾可以來臺灣參觀，這個故宮非常期待。"],["洪委員孟楷：另外一點，我們現在故宮的狀況，明年是百年院慶，明年百年院慶的時候，我有看到預算的部分有增加要去捷克、法國辦理相關的特展，也有文物基金會新增派員出去考查，包括考察日本以及義大利。院長，是不是也能跟國人說明，或是解釋一下，除了我們派員出去策展、考察以外，怎麼樣利用這些活動或狀況，增加更多國外觀光客來到我們的故宮？有沒有比較實際的作為？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，當然，在過去有新聞局的時代，因為新聞局海外有駐外單位，他們不管怎麼宣傳，內容一定會包括故宮，可是新聞局裁撤之後……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那現在這些宣傳業務都到觀光署。"],["蕭院長宗煌：到觀光署，但觀光署宣傳的重點目前看來都是國家風景區或是國家公園，就比較少提到故宮，這個部分，我打算在過年以後、1月以後再找相關的外交部、觀光署這些單位，請他們來協助，看能不能用一種整合的方式，做一個整體的宣傳……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，院長，你講的就是本席接下來想問的，這也是我在你的，不管是明年的預算或是報告裡面，沒有看到的，這也是本席特別關心和擔憂的，就是沒有錯，以故宮的能量，相對來講，你把館藏、北院、南院給做好，你把我們的文物給保存好，這是很重要的一個部分，但更重要的是我們也希望很多的觀光客、國外的旅客來到臺灣，除了風景區，除了景觀，除了101等等，大家能夠知道文物在故宮，然後更多人來參觀，但你看，從疫情前2019年外國籍的旅客一年有300萬人，到2023年疫情過後，外國籍的旅客一年只不到百萬，只有七十二萬多人，到今年的統計，目前為止也將近是七十萬人左右，所以我們現在外國籍的旅客不到疫情前的三分之一，我們也希望你能不能夠有更多的宣傳，讓外國籍的旅客知道來臺灣除了好吃的東西、好玩的東西以外，沒有來故宮看，這個是可惜的！這個是遺憾的！這個是白來了！但是你過去到現在都還沒有跟不管是觀光署、不管是我們相關的駐外單位來做整合，看能夠怎麼樣在宣傳的時候多帶到一點故宮在臺灣、文物在臺灣，你剛剛講是要到明年1月，明年1月的時候，總預算大家都審過了，明年的計畫大家都已經報完了，明年的計畫大家都已經確認了，這樣來得及嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，其實提升國際能量的計畫，就國際戰略計畫，我們在今年有做了，上個月……"],["洪委員孟楷：多少費用？"],["蕭院長宗煌：有時候我不能明確去編一個預算說這個東西是多少費用……"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，院長，你能不能明確編一個預算就代表你有沒有真的想要執行這個核心業務，這是一個部分。","另外，我剛剛開宗明義強調，故宮的本預算放眼到我們中華民國政府總預算來講，其實是杯水車薪，相對少，尤其是宣傳這一塊，所以我才會講到，其實你應該是用故宮的高度來結合，不管是觀光署，不管是外交部，不管是經濟部等相關部會，大家來講，我們能夠提供什麼樣的東西，拜託大家在對外推動中華民國觀光的時候，順便帶到文化的臺灣、觀光的臺灣、美食的臺灣、娛樂的臺灣，其中一個文化的臺灣當然要故宮。","但我現在講的是到目前為止，你的報告書第一、明年的計畫是沒有這一項，你沒有跨域整合的雄心壯志，第二、你自己本預算也沒有辦法編，又沒有去整合的話，這樣子我們怎麼樣期待明年我們的觀光客能夠到達300萬，別說300萬，有沒有辦法突破100萬？"],["蕭院長宗煌：應該可以突破100萬沒有問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是低標啦！院長，不行啦！疫情前，扣掉陸客，你2019年都還有差不多300萬的外國觀光客，其中日本觀光客、韓國觀光客都占大宗，日本觀光客有10%，到目前為止，我現在講的是到2023年、2024年國外觀光客都只有七十幾萬，不到疫情前的三分之一……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們今年本來預估大概127萬，大概少了50萬，因為原來預期邊境陸客會開放，可是沒有開放，所以的確是少了……"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["蕭院長宗煌：所謂的國際戰略計畫，其實我們今年一直在推，現在推的是國內的專家學者及相關單位的諮詢，會講明年是因為我們會議的安排就是到明年，因為我們要找外交部、找教育部、找觀光署一起來開會……"],["洪委員孟楷：是他們都很被動，不願意來跟你開會，還是……"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是啦！也不是，因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：那現在12月4日，你跟我講明年1月才能……"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為我們開完會以後要有會議紀錄，有會議紀錄才去形成這個計畫……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，我能不能要求，因為我們之後接下來要審故宮的相關預算，那我覺得這一塊真的是重要……"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有辦法編列在故宮本預算裡面，但至少你要想方設法拉……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們去做一個資源整合。"],["洪委員孟楷：拉資源整合、拉觀光署、拉外交部、拉其他部會來，告訴他們，他們要宣傳、他們要有任何文化活動的時候，雖然故宮不一定有錢，但是可以有什麼樣的圖資、什麼樣的協助，讓你能夠更推廣，能不能在我們進入到預算實質審查的時候，你有這樣一個明確計畫，讓我們能夠瞭解，這樣我們預算審查的時候更能夠支持。"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，這個沒有問題，因為我們本來就在做，而且我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：好。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們那個計畫概念、構想基本上來講是有的，我們現在在進行諮詢會……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我希望在審查之前可以提供本席和我們教文委員會的委員這個計畫作為參考，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：另外，最後1分鐘，我有看到故宮現在跟屈臣氏商店有做跨界合作，推出系列的品牌商品，本席認為，如果能夠讓文物結合商品，這個方向本席是認同，不過，我現在想請教，明年百年院慶，我們有沒有什麼比較特別的紀念商品是讓國人或者外國人士來臺灣一定非買不可，有沒有？能不能先拿出來讓大家「鼻芳一下」？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們跟中華郵政出版故宮百年郵票，有包括赤壁賦的整套郵票，當然這個是……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，這個都是……"],["蕭院長宗煌：另外，我們跟中央造幣廠會合作做金條，金條應該可以……"],["洪委員孟楷：你覺得這個有吸引力嗎？你自己講得都在笑了，我這一題是希望你，院長，這不好笑啦！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道不好笑啦！因為……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席真的是站在一個期待與鼓勵的立場，對於行政部會來講，有專業我們是支持，但是我們真的希望百年，我們人生有幾個100年，我們這次100年之後，下一個100年我們都不在了，所以這一個百年其實我覺得是非常重要的時刻，我們不管是借用民間的創意，或者借用什麼樣的力量，去想一個東西，是明年百年每一個來故宮的一定非買不可，這個東西是很特別的，如果來臺灣沒有來故宮白來了，來故宮沒有買這樣的商品、沒有買這樣的紀念品白來了，要有這樣的雄心壯志，所以拜託，院長，除了剛剛說的，說實在，郵票……"],["蕭院長宗煌：我知道，紀念酒、紀念幣都是一般……"],["洪委員孟楷：這個都老掉牙嘛！有沒有……"],["蕭院長宗煌：怎麼樣來想一個比較……"],["洪委員孟楷：我覺得這個東西才是重點，這個東西也才是真的能夠讓我們把文物、故宮、精神以及人民的日常生活來結合，不是要你做一個mission impossible，去看一下大英博物館，去看一下其他博物館……"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：他們做的東西有沒有什麼是值得我們學習參考的，我們來結合嘛！"],["主席：會後請院長……"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，我們請我們行銷處的同仁動動腦……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，拜託，在預算審查的時候，真的，我們要來看到這樣的部分，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們編出來的預算是不是能夠有把錢花在刀口上的實質效果，這才是我們真的能夠支持的。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，我們也希望有一個經典商品可以賣得很好。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。院長，會後再跟洪孟楷委員做詳細的報告。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在因為我們現場的委員已經達3人，請問一下，上次會議的議事錄有無錯誤或者是遺漏之處？（無）沒有，議事錄確定。","接下來有請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"158064","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158064","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6c9ad41bd34b9fe1f02d9348600421deca1a359a53f99ce1bd03cff43a440a0fbb206ea06e1c8f725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"13:00:42 - 13:06:52","影片長度":"00:06:10","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:00:42+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:06:52+08:00","duration":370,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":3.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.818468750000001,"end":10.274093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.20221875,"end":20.449718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.49596875,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.829093750000002,"end":26.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.11971875,"end":28.718468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.836593750000002,"end":28.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.85346875,"end":31.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.625343750000003,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.71784375,"end":34.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.25784375,"end":35.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.54409375,"end":38.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.759093750000005,"end":50.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.602843750000005,"end":40.547843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.07784375,"end":52.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.15346875,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.055343750000006,"end":78.58409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.08721875,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.92159375,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.79909375000001,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.45721875000001,"end":80.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.47409375000001,"end":80.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.49096875000001,"end":80.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.76096875,"end":80.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.94659375,"end":82.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.70971875000001,"end":85.51971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.49846875,"end":88.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.32909375,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.99034375000001,"end":98.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.88471875,"end":100.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.50471875000001,"end":108.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.52159375000001,"end":100.89284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.36846875,"end":108.53721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.53721875000001,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.60721875,"end":120.50159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.87721875000001,"end":122.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.72096875000001,"end":120.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.88971875000001,"end":120.94034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.02471875,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.96471875,"end":146.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.33034375,"end":136.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.40471875,"end":149.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":153.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.42096875000001,"end":151.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.31909375,"end":154.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.33596875,"end":157.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.94346875000002,"end":156.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.00221875,"end":157.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.17096875000001,"end":163.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.61721875,"end":172.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.86471875,"end":174.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.12596875,"end":177.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":178.11284375000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.02784375000002,"end":209.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.56284375,"end":188.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.80659375000002,"end":193.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.85721875000002,"end":194.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.73471875,"end":194.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.37096875,"end":200.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.38784375,"end":201.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.43284375000002,"end":217.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.80721875,"end":235.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.35971875,"end":220.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.76846875,"end":222.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.62346875,"end":231.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.18409375000002,"end":235.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.35284375,"end":235.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.79159375,"end":256.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.59534375,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.20221875000001,"end":261.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.08721875000003,"end":263.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":263.77034375,"end":265.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.39471875000004,"end":269.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.22534375000004,"end":269.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.50784375,"end":273.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.92096875000004,"end":276.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.22409375,"end":295.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.33596875,"end":289.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":295.09034375000005,"end":297.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.92971875,"end":298.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.38096875,"end":298.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.48221875,"end":299.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.39346875,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.63784375,"end":302.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.51534375,"end":303.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.13971875000004,"end":307.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.23221875,"end":305.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.36721875,"end":306.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.25284375,"end":311.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.23534375,"end":313.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.88909375000003,"end":316.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.36971875,"end":318.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.39034375,"end":319.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.33534375,"end":328.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.84471875,"end":330.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.00471875,"end":332.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.67534375,"end":332.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.56971875000005,"end":334.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.03784375000004,"end":334.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.08846875,"end":334.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.64534375,"end":334.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.15159375,"end":337.21034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.18534375,"end":335.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.54784375,"end":339.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":339.20159375000003,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.78784375000004,"end":341.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.08784375000005,"end":365.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.77534375000005,"end":366.99471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.483,"end":20.115,"text":"麻煩請部長謝謝好請部長部長先請教一下之前速發部大力宣傳的臺灣雲市集所謂的點線面平台現在還存在嗎"},{"start":22.932,"end":49.947,"text":"我們那個雲四季主要是給中小企業我知道我現在是問的點線面平台現在還存在嗎還存在效果怎麼樣現在有多少店家加入6萬8千家那這樣算6萬8千家有加入這個外送平台所以民眾可以透過LINE綁定然後去跟這些6萬8千家訂餐是嗎"},{"start":53.202,"end":78.168,"text":"我知道我們上架的這個支付的系統然後另外8家的中小企業去用不是啦我在問點線面平台你直接回應我好不好因為那時候你們宣傳的是說如果參加這個台灣雲市集然後一般的民眾如果叫外送的話可以用來綁定嘛不用排隊嘛而且經濟部還有補助嘛所以有多少家餐廳加入這個外送平台服務"},{"start":78.988,"end":81.955,"text":"就是6萬8千6萬8那你覺得多還是少你覺得多還是少這有達到你們預期的目標嗎"},{"start":90.476,"end":119.136,"text":"部長為什麼都不回答這是旁邊第三個人跟第二個人解釋然後你就躲在旁邊我現在是在質詢部長還是在質詢那個報委那個部長為什麼問這東西因為這個東西是你們事務發布當時一直在宣傳的嘛也被社會廣泛討論啊結果你對於這個業務完全一竅不通還要叫別人來提醒你然後提醒你的那個人自己也不清楚還要叫第三個人來提醒那當初你宣傳這個點線平台在宣傳假的喔"},{"start":119.716,"end":145.568,"text":"你有在追蹤這個後續的效果嗎那個雲世紀這個project我care是上面上層這個你們當時宣傳的就是這個點線面平台嗎社會大眾關心的是你們這個東西當初講了後續嘛沒關係啦你之後再補資料給我現在感覺是好像你完全沒有掌握狀況所以當時講了放一把火就沒事了還叫經濟部補助一堆錢然後有沒有效果你現在搞不清楚狀況"},{"start":148.611,"end":160.925,"text":"我講的是就是點線面平台這個我講就是我講的那麼具體不要跟我扯別的好不好第二個那個時候因為我們都知道隔幾天周杰倫演唱會就要開始了嘛"},{"start":161.345,"end":176.992,"text":"周杰倫演唱會黃牛票非常嚴重當時你們前部長唐鳳部長說只要數位簽章把過關的話有通過的話可以解決黃牛票的問題我想請教一下現在這個部分進度到哪裡了"},{"start":178.472,"end":195.559,"text":"指名制不是問題現在是說執行單位要不要用指名制沒有他不是這樣講的喔他的講法是說因為現在黃牛票很多人會用機器人掃票所以如果電子簽章法有過的話到時候這些機器人掃票他也必須要提供電子簽章所以會加強他就會"},{"start":196.599,"end":196.779,"text":"綜合委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":218.24,"end":234.619,"text":"拜託不要一直岔開話題唐鳳講的就是機器人掃票他講的是說如果你機器人掃票的話你如果不需要提供這些姓名沒有電子簽帳的話那他就可以隨便提供很多個資就可以去買了但是如果說有電子簽帳的話就會增加難度這唐鳳講的沒錯"},{"start":236.14,"end":263.317,"text":"對所以跟什麼你要不要進去那個無關我現在講的是第一階段機器人掃票的部分你不要一直扭曲我的問題好不好我的問題那麼簡單請問一下電子簽贓法如果現在已經通過了嘛那有一年的日落條款嘛那請教一下等可以做到唐鳳的那樣杜絕黃牛票要到什麼時候要到什麼時候但是那個就是賣票的單位不願意做不是對是這樣子就是確實這樣那所以現在立刻可以是不是現在立刻可以"},{"start":264.017,"end":277.853,"text":"現在那個技術現在只要現在只要你的意思是說現在只要賣票單位願意接受的話立刻可以做就可以執行不那跟電子簽商數位簽商法無關跟數位簽商法無關是這個意思很多技術不電子簽商可以是其中一個技術其中一個那當時唐鳳為什麼要這樣瞎掰我講的是他講的話欸"},{"start":280.436,"end":307.233,"text":"是他講說到時候數位簽證法過關的話黃牛票問題也可以透過這種方式解決而且他已經跟文化部在討論這他講的結果你現在打臉他你說跟那個沒關係其實有很多技術可以解決只要只要賣票單位可以接受話都給你們講就好了那個主要是看售票單位那他為什麼這樣講嗎技術是在我講的是唐鳳講的話唐鳳講的話你就不認了啦反正錢超現在你們都跟你們無關第三個問題"},{"start":308.734,"end":337.158,"text":"你們現在到底跟六大平台的關係怎麼樣現在就是有密切的密切合作那之前為什麼會出現很多財經的網紅他們被下架為什麼那個上次我已經解釋過那個是內部是FacebookMeta內部作業的問題所以跟我們數話部無關那有白名單這種事情嗎白名單也不是我們提供的那誰提供的這個不清楚不清楚對但是不是我們數話部提供的"},{"start":337.711,"end":337.971,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":367.551,"end":368.729,"text":"謝謝。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1109,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時）麻煩請黃部長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請黃部長。"],["葉委員元之：部長，先請教一下，之前數發部大力宣傳的臺灣雲市集所謂的「點麵線」平臺，現在還存在嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們那個雲市集主要是給中小企業……"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我現在是問的「點麵線」平臺現在還存在嗎？"],["林代理署長俊秀：還存在，雲市集還存在。"],["葉委員元之：還存在，現在效果怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：效果……"],["林代理署長俊秀：效果還不錯。"],["葉委員元之：有多少店家加入？"],["林代理署長俊秀：6萬8,000家。"],["葉委員元之：6萬8,000家？"],["林代理署長俊秀：嗯，小商號。"],["葉委員元之：這樣算有6萬8,000家加入這個外送平台，所以民眾可以透過LINE綁定，然後去跟這6萬8,000家訂餐，是嗎？"],["林代理署長俊秀：我們上架這個資服的系統，然後6萬8,000家的中小企業去用……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦！我在問「點麵線」平臺，你直接回應我好不好？因為那時候你們宣傳的是如果參加這個臺灣雲市集，一般的民眾叫外送的話可以用LINE綁定，不用排隊嘛！"],["林代理署長俊秀：是、是、是沒錯，掃QR Code都可以。"],["葉委員元之：而且經濟部還有補助，所以有多少家餐廳加入這個外送平臺服務？"],["林代理署長俊秀：就是6萬8,000家。"],["葉委員元之：6萬8,000家？"],["林代理署長俊秀：是。"],["葉委員元之：那你覺得多還是少？這有達到你們預期的目標嗎？部長為什麼都不回答？是旁邊第三個人跟第二個人在解釋，然後你就躲在旁邊，我現在是在質詢部長還是在質詢……"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，那個因為……"],["葉委員元之：部長，為什麼問這個東西？因為這個東西是你們數發部當時一直在宣傳的，也被社會廣泛討論，結果你對於這個業務完全一竅不通，還要叫別人來提醒你，然後提醒你的那個人自己也不清楚，還要叫第三個人來提醒，那當初你宣傳這個「點麵線」平臺是在宣傳假的喔！"],["黃部長彥男：那個……"],["葉委員元之：你有在追蹤這個後續的效果嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：那個雲市集的project，我care的是上面上層這個project……"],["葉委員元之：你們當時宣傳的就是這個「點麵線」平臺，社會大眾關心的是你們這個東西當初講了的後續。"],["黃部長彥男：那個是其中……"],["葉委員元之：好，沒關係啦，你事後再補資料給我。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["葉委員元之：現在感覺是好像你完全沒有掌握狀況……"],["黃部長彥男：不是……"],["葉委員元之：所以當時講了、放一把火就沒事了，還叫經濟部補助一堆錢，然後有沒有效果你現在也搞不清楚狀況。"],["黃部長彥男：雲市集有好幾百個app，所以……"],["葉委員元之：我講的就是「點麵線」平臺，我講的那麼具體，你不要跟我扯別的好不好！"],["黃部長彥男：那個……"],["葉委員元之：你再補資料給我。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我再補資料給你。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，我們都知道隔幾天周杰倫演唱會就要開始了，周杰倫演唱會黃牛票非常嚴重，你們前部長唐鳳說：只要電子簽章法過關、通過的話，可以解決黃牛票的問題，我想請教一下，現在這個部分的進度到哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，實名制不是問題，現在是執行單位要不要用實名制……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，他不是這樣講的喔，他的講法是因為現在黃牛票很多人會用機器人掃票，所以如果電子簽章法有過的話，到時候這些機器人掃票也必須要提供電子簽章。"],["黃部長彥男：對，要實名。"],["葉委員元之：所以會增加電子掃票的難度，這個是當時唐鳳講的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，然後……"],["葉委員元之：所以這個東西就是跟電子簽章法有關，我現在問你，如果要解決黃牛票問題，請問一下你們現在要推這個東西的進度到哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個都可以執行，現在的問題是在於執行單位在收票，就是你進來要驗票會增加它的成本……"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的是機器人掃票，拜託一下不要一直岔開話題……"],["黃部長彥男：不是機器人掃票，機器人掃票……"],["葉委員元之：唐鳳講的就是機器人掃票，他講的是如果機器人掃票不需要提供這些姓名、沒有電子簽章的話，那他就可以隨便提供很多個資就可以去買了……"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒有錯，所以……"],["葉委員元之：但是如果有電子簽章的話就會增加難度，這是唐鳳講的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯，但是……"],["葉委員元之：所以跟什麼你要不要進去那個無關，我現在講的是第一階段機器人掃票的部分，你不要一直扭曲我的問題好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：不是……"],["葉委員元之：我的問題那麼簡單！請問一下電子簽章法現在已經通過了，有一年的日落條款，請教一下可以做到唐鳳講的那樣杜絕黃牛票要到什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：可以做到，但是……"],["葉委員元之：要到什麼時候？"],["黃部長彥男：但是那個就是賣票單位不願意做。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦……"],["黃部長彥男：對，是這樣子，確實是這樣子。"],["葉委員元之：好，所以現在立刻可以是不是？現在立刻可以？"],["黃部長彥男：現在那個技術都在……"],["葉委員元之：你的意思是現在只要賣票單位願意接受的話立刻就可以做？"],["黃部長彥男：就可以執行。"],["葉委員元之：跟電子簽章法無關？"],["黃部長彥男：它裡面有很多技術，電子簽章可以是其中一個技術。"],["葉委員元之：其中一個？當時唐鳳為什麼要這樣瞎掰？我講的是他講的話耶！"],["黃部長彥男：不是……"],["葉委員元之：是他說到時候電子簽章法過關的話，黃牛票問題也可以透過這種方式解決，而且他已經跟文化部討論，這是他講的；結果你現在打臉他，你說跟那個沒關、其實有很多技術可以解決、只要賣票單位可以接受。話都給你們講就好了！"],["黃部長彥男：不是，那個主要是看售票單位要不要用。"],["葉委員元之：那他為什麼這樣講？"],["黃部長彥男：技術是在，但……"],["葉委員元之：我講的是唐鳳講的話。"],["黃部長彥男：唐鳳講的話……不過重點是……"],["葉委員元之：你就不認了啦！反正前朝的現在都跟你們無關。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，那個是……"],["葉委員元之：第三個問題，你們現在到底跟六大平台的關係怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：現在就是有密切的……"],["葉委員元之：密切合作，之前為什麼會出現很多財經網紅被下架？為什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：那個上次我已經解釋過，那個是Facebook、Meta內部作業的問題，所以跟我們數發部一點關係都沒有。"],["葉委員元之：無關？那有白名單這種事情嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：白名單也不是我們提供的。"],["葉委員元之：那誰提供的？"],["黃部長彥男：這個不清楚。"],["葉委員元之：不清楚？"],["黃部長彥男：對，但不是我們數發部提供的。"],["葉委員元之：你們數發部平常跟他們都怎麼溝通？"],["黃部長彥男：我們都是叫它下……"],["葉委員元之：下架？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們如果看到假廣告，被我們掃描出來或是民眾報案，我們就叫它下架，我們是叫它下架哪些廣告，但是上次那個事件是Meta內部在作業的，我的瞭解是他們內部作業的錯誤造成這些下架，但是這個跟數發部無關，我們沒有發任何文、沒有發任何訊息給他們，要求他們在這個事情上做任何事。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：這個已經在媒體上公布，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"158063","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158063","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6c9ad41bd34b9fe19b1f83ff0f4b6973ca1a359a53f99ce1bd03cff43a440a0f0ecafa458f489ced5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"10:24:48 - 10:36:06","影片長度":"00:11:18","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T10:24:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T10:36:06+08:00","duration":678,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.4990937500000001,"end":5.228468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.24534375,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.363468750000001,"end":6.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.36721875,"end":9.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.738468750000003,"end":8.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.78909375,"end":9.902843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.13909375,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.42096875,"end":15.454718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.454718750000001,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":15.910343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.606593750000002,"end":15.758468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.61471875,"end":18.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.875968750000002,"end":23.453468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.875343750000003,"end":27.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.58784375,"end":44.159093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.73284375,"end":48.360968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.377843750000004,"end":49.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.76159375,"end":54.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.18284375,"end":65.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.11346875000001,"end":67.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.74596875,"end":68.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.65721875,"end":70.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.51784375,"end":71.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.71596875,"end":72.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.34034375,"end":74.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.61409375000001,"end":78.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.16221875000001,"end":78.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.82034375,"end":79.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.07346875,"end":80.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.68909375,"end":88.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.25346875000001,"end":93.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.97409375000001,"end":94.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.99471875,"end":117.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.79409375,"end":113.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.44784375,"end":121.17659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.94409375000001,"end":133.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.30534375000002,"end":134.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.60471875000002,"end":136.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.22471875000002,"end":138.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.97971875000002,"end":140.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.88659375,"end":141.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.10159375,"end":143.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.19409375,"end":152.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.64846875,"end":155.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.34846875000002,"end":156.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.79971875,"end":159.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.90471875,"end":162.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.89159375,"end":164.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.23721875,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.40096875,"end":178.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.82159375,"end":182.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.85471875000002,"end":184.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.21721875,"end":185.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.65159375000002,"end":187.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.88346875000002,"end":188.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.59221875,"end":189.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.41909375,"end":190.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.31346875,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.91659375,"end":194.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.80221875,"end":197.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.82284375,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.42596875,"end":202.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.98659375000003,"end":205.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.24784375000002,"end":208.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.08284375000002,"end":209.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.29346875000002,"end":213.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.44909375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.69784375,"end":217.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.35971875,"end":220.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.09346875000003,"end":223.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.77221875,"end":233.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.05346875,"end":235.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.63971875000001,"end":236.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.42846875,"end":238.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.87971875000002,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.96346875,"end":250.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.84409375,"end":252.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.32909375000003,"end":264.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.95159375000003,"end":267.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.34784375000004,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.12784375,"end":307.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.18971875,"end":307.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.37534375,"end":307.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.42159375,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.02471875000003,"end":311.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.96096875,"end":315.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.52159375,"end":318.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.88409375000003,"end":324.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.89159375,"end":331.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.99596875000003,"end":340.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.75409375000004,"end":349.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.96784375000004,"end":357.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.98346875000004,"end":360.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.14346875,"end":362.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.84346875,"end":364.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.91909375,"end":366.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.09596875,"end":368.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.55971875,"end":371.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.75346875,"end":372.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.25534375,"end":373.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.08221875000004,"end":375.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.93846875,"end":376.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.32221875000005,"end":379.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.86596875000004,"end":381.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.65909375,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.43659375000004,"end":402.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.12409375000004,"end":405.97596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.17409375000005,"end":414.68346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.75096875,"end":421.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.32784375,"end":423.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.28971875,"end":424.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.42034375000003,"end":430.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.19159375000004,"end":430.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.65971875,"end":434.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.76471875000004,"end":435.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.28784375000004,"end":441.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.40909375,"end":462.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.38471875000005,"end":465.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.25346875,"end":476.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.25596875,"end":478.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.06159375000004,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.67284375,"end":484.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.18721875000006,"end":488.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.74784375,"end":490.65471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.27909375,"end":491.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.27471875000003,"end":494.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.78909375,"end":498.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.19346875,"end":519.2240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.5278437500001,"end":524.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.63659375,"end":527.1553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.97284375,"end":534.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.9765937500001,"end":537.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.6765937499999,"end":540.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.6047187500001,"end":541.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.37659375,"end":549.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.7803437499999,"end":565.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.6765937499999,"end":576.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.24034375,"end":577.8984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.21909375,"end":580.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.34534375,"end":581.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9484687500001,"end":582.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.8090937500001,"end":587.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.20909375,"end":592.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.14096875,"end":596.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.07284375,"end":596.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.5747187500001,"end":599.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.4309687500001,"end":602.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.82284375,"end":603.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.95346875,"end":613.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":613.7747187500001,"end":639.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.94784375,"end":650.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.81534375,"end":661.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.06846875,"end":651.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":651.5578437500001,"end":651.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.35784375,"end":677.4440937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.877,"end":5.682,"text":"謝謝主席有請黃部長跟人事處莫處長謝謝兩位"},{"start":19.929,"end":47.397,"text":"委員我剛好也有機會在基層擔任過首長那因為現在這個至少這兩個多禮拜一個霸凌的事件是全民都在關心的那在這個問題的裡面我剛剛的感覺我們的訴發部事發部的反應我是覺得稍微慢了一點也是說當總統院長鞠躬道歉之後你們的目標就是趕快來修訂一下法規在11月28號20號"},{"start":49.798,"end":51.159,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":75.7,"end":93.901,"text":"委員表達意見,您有沒有彙整?還是還沒收件?朝委請問的是那個什麼的調查。我跟委員報告。這樣好了啦。那我們這個任訓司裡面的所有同仁的收件沒有?"},{"start":97.265,"end":120.294,"text":"跟詹委報告就是說就我們那個本部的那個離職率比較偏高的那個部分那大概確實我們那個瞭解就是昭緯有調查的這個部分那個方案那確實是我們那個六個業務室也都收卷了嗎?治安署每位同仁的反應也都收到了嗎?彙整了嗎?"},{"start":124.073,"end":143.036,"text":"你到底在做什麼啦我跟你講齁真的很離譜啦剛剛一直講同仁怎樣同仁怎麼樣我們只問一個這種調查最基本的第一件事同仁保密的甚至不具名的不要有標示性的反應起來啊這件事有沒有做"},{"start":144.229,"end":159.231,"text":"到目前為止有沒有做在11月20號他單位發生這麼嚴重霸凌的事件當行政院長下令的時候你們這個當然我想這個部長也是問題你要負責啦齁處長在做什麼在觀望應該不會到我們"},{"start":159.972,"end":183.998,"text":"我跟你講每個單位可能都有這樣的危機啊你最基本的員工的反應我們同仁會不會有這樣的一個反應你至少要有這種警覺性我還沒有爆發我要警覺性所有的同仁全部你們反應一下不具名的你們反應一下各單位的一個情況你自己能夠幫忙部長做一個反應哪裡危機哪裡沒有危機我講的對不對我是認定的速度慢了"},{"start":185.41,"end":213.759,"text":"第二位部長講真的你們算是整個數位部因為畢竟比較專業以前我們在部隊講說合理的叫訓練不合理的叫磨練問題現在這個社會發展到這個點上大概沒有什麼不合理的空間也許部隊還有一些其他我們在政府在管理這個部分我要必須給你們八個字就是"},{"start":214.819,"end":232.38,"text":"秦深說重話秦深重話秦深也可以說重話嘛不要講髒話嘛重話也講得出來第二個禮職氣也可以喝我說真的那我們現在因為在座很多都做我們的數位的專業的"},{"start":234.093,"end":245.443,"text":"我們都說理科人我碰過蠻多的真的很直就是平常就只管010101數位那他不知道0跟1之間還有100種1000種可能還有0.01像我們不是理科人我們覺得彈性很大"},{"start":250.948,"end":270.638,"text":"所以我是覺得對於我們所有主管甚至各單位二級的首長甚至科長、組長這個的部分如何做管理我是覺得這一方面的調教跟訓練甚至跟SOP是怎麼樣這個部分你要怎麼著手部長你說一下好不好"},{"start":271.999,"end":294.238,"text":"謝謝委員的建議的確這件事情就是讓我也跟部內同仁講就是我們要加強我們的所謂訓練教育訓練包括靈導統一的訓練也就是說剛剛委員講的很好我們要我用一句話就是我們要愛的教育鐵的紀律也就是說我們紀律是要很嚴格但是你那個在跟員工在溝通的時候那個愛那個字很重要所以"},{"start":295.259,"end":311.155,"text":"這個我們會在內部然後我們會再請外面的一些專家跟老師來跟我們做內部的訓練希望這個所謂的職場霸凌的這個事情在我們數位發展部不會再發生好那這個部分我還是第二個建議啦第二個建議說"},{"start":313.101,"end":313.121,"text":"委員．"},{"start":332.005,"end":338.109,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第12會期交通委員會及立法院第12會期交通委員會及立法院第12"},{"start":358.038,"end":359.159,"text":"所以我是覺得怎麼樣在工作性質上面"},{"start":380.919,"end":405.489,"text":"不要到私人的個人的一個上面我是覺得這是一個關鍵的一個重點這個部分我建議這整個要去推敲尤其剛剛我們署長也特別說壓力這麼大對不對我覺得這個東西是非常非常重要的管理還是持續要做但是只是不要情緒失控這是我的建議那再來就是我們數位三件特別看到你的一個報告"},{"start":407.61,"end":430.776,"text":"強化打詐公司協力齁其中一樣剛剛很多委員講啊11政府短碼簡訊平台上路啦當然我講不幸中的大幸是因為他現在是用舊的2G的一個平台用車載著到處去跑然後去干擾現在可能5G、4G的訊號台然後他發出去那只有"},{"start":431.716,"end":441.563,"text":"中間還有二級的功能的手機能夠收到可是你知道嗎?其實不光是二級手機了那常常發的是Hokang"},{"start":442.475,"end":442.835,"text":"委員會提供的資料"},{"start":464.01,"end":489.777,"text":"看到一個事情不是111二級手機影響比較少而看到一個問題其實最認真去遵循推敲我們數位部、數發部最新政策的還有NC最新政策的其實是詐騙集團你有什麼訊息什麼可以代表政府的公信力公信力了他就跟上來你想想看像這樣的一個情況111"},{"start":491.337,"end":518.438,"text":"拜表政府現在大概我們網路去google我可以看到自己十幾個二十個包括我們監理站他特別專業各位111請不要擔心絕對不是詐騙他同時間在幫你宣傳的有345個單位機關嘛你們在整個用到現在也大概4600多萬通在發那如果你夾雜這個的部分等於這些宣傳的機關"},{"start":519.679,"end":526.942,"text":"也順便再幫忙他那個詐騙集團他宣傳都沒有宣傳了因為大家都說11是標準的讓你看看8月1號111的簡訊你就可以放棄記得111簡訊是政府發送的能避免被詐騙集團保佑111安全"},{"start":539.687,"end":541.188,"text":"所以我最後一個拜託啊"},{"start":566.796,"end":567.176,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":588.288,"end":596.441,"text":"手機裡面這個部分你們在建制現在花了大概兩億大概這兩年今年加明年大概會"},{"start":598.409,"end":624.326,"text":"的預算你們對這個自己在做花2億多的有沒有信心本身數位皮夾上路的時候對於這種入侵式的或者copy抄襲式的本身有足夠的防衛機制你最後說明一下剛剛也跟委員報告就是說我們這個機制這個東西放在手機裡面有多重的保護一個當然就講說需要你需要一些像生物特徵的辨識才能進到這個皮夾"},{"start":625.327,"end":647.938,"text":"那這個PGC用最新的加密技術再加一個國際認證的標籤PKI這樣的一個技術所以就是說這個資料在你的手機裡面一定要經過一些認證這個認證是不是商號密碼而是你的生物特徵然後進去之後像FIDO這種然後進去之後才去渠道裡面資料再解密才能真正使用所以有多重的保護那應該這個應該是相對的相當的安全應該了齁"},{"start":651.92,"end":651.94,"text":"謝謝 謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":416,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時24分）謝謝主席。有請黃部長跟人事處莫處長。"],["主席：請黃部長跟人事處莫處長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：謝謝兩位。我剛好有機會在基層擔任過首長，至少兩個多禮拜以來，有一個霸凌事件是全民都在關心的，而在這個問題裡面，我剛剛的感覺是數發部的反應稍微慢了一點。也就是說──當總統、院長鞠躬道歉之後，你們的目標就是趕快在11月28日修訂一下法規，20日鞠躬說要全面澈查，你們28日就修訂法規。我剛剛也問了，你們目前對於所有單位的同仁、員工做了一些調查，調查資料都回來了沒有？","處長，你來說好了。員工表達的意見你們有沒有彙整？還是還沒收卷？"],["莫處長永榮：請問召委問的是什麼調查？我跟召委報告……"],["魯委員明哲：這樣好了，靭性司所有同仁的部分收卷沒有？"],["莫處長永榮：跟召委報告，就我們本部離職率比較偏高的部分，就是召委說的調查的部分……"],["魯委員明哲：你的意思是說……"],["莫處長永榮：我們6個業務司確實是靭性司比較高一點。"],["魯委員明哲：資安署同仁的部分，你都收卷了嗎？資安署每位同仁的反映你都收到了嗎？彙整了嗎？"],["莫處長永榮：……"],["魯委員明哲：不是，你到底在做什麼啦！"],["莫處長永榮：跟召委報告……"],["魯委員明哲：我跟你講，剛剛一直講同仁怎麼樣、同仁怎麼樣，我們只問一個：這種調查，最基本的第一件事，同仁保密的、甚至不具名的、不要有標示性的，把他們的反映收集起來，這件事情到目前為止有沒有做？在11月20日他單位發生這麼嚴重的霸凌事件，當行政院長下令的時候，你們……","當然，我想部長也是問題，你要負責啦！處長在做什麼？在觀望？想說：應該不會到我們。我跟你講，每個單位可能都有這樣的危機啦！你們對於最基本的員工反映、同仁會不會有這樣的反映？你至少要有這種警覺性！我們還沒有爆發，但是我要有警覺性，請所有同仁全部反映一下、不具名的反映一下各單位的情況。你自己能夠幫忙部長做一個反映，哪裡有危機，哪裡沒有危機。我講得對不對？我覺得你們的速度慢了！","其次，部長，講真的，你們數位部畢竟比較專業，以前我們在部隊說，合理的叫訓練，不合理的叫磨練。問題是現在社會發展到這個點上，大概沒有什麼不合理的空間，也許部隊還有一些，其他譬如政府在管理的這個部分，我必須給你們八個字，就是「輕聲重話」，輕聲也可以說重話嘛！不要講髒話嘛，重話也講得出來。然後是「理直氣和」，理直氣也可以和。因為在座很多都是數位方面的專業人士，我們都說理科人啦！我碰過滿多的，真的很直，平常就只管0、1、0、1，不知道0跟1之間還有一百種、一千種可能，還有0.01，像我們不是理科人，我們就覺得彈性很大。所以我是覺得，對於我們所有主管甚至各單位的二級首長或是科長、組長要如何做管理，這方面的調教跟訓練，甚至SOP是怎麼樣，這個部分要怎麼著手？部長，你說一下好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的建議，的確，這件事情也讓我跟部內同仁講，就是我們要加強我們的教育訓練，包括領導統御的訓練。剛剛委員講得很好，我用一句話就是我們要用「愛的教育、鐵的紀律」，也就是說，我們的紀律是要很嚴格，但是在跟員工溝通的時候，「愛」那個字很重要，所以這個部分我們會再努力，然後我們會再請一些外面的專家和老師來跟我們做內部的訓練，希望所謂職場霸凌的這個事情，在我們數發部不會再發生。"],["魯委員明哲：好，這個部分，我還有第二個建議，第二個建議是，因為霸凌事件發生到現在，我們也希望不要到最後走到偏差了，我們要真的把不對的事情找出來，不要讓對的事情連講都不敢講，因為就我以前的經驗，現在在政府裡面，說真的，八成的員工都能夠做完他的事情、能夠符合他的能量，甚至有三成，四成是蠻優秀的，但是有兩成需要你去關心、去輔導，這也是事實，也許有個3%到5%，因為我以前碰過，人家來罵我為什麼裝個路燈或者做個工程，兩個月完全沒有消息，不裝也沒給消息，結果我一去看，我們承辦人的抽屜一打開，半年以上的公文，他壓在這裡，這是事實喔。所以如果以現在的標準，我不知道怎麼樣跟他好好講，肯定要臭罵一頓的。所以我是覺得怎麼樣聚焦在工作性質上面，不要到牽涉到私人、個人，我是覺得是一個關鍵的重點，這個部分我建議要整個去推敲，尤其剛剛署長也特別說壓力這麼大對不對？我覺得這個東西是非常、非常重要的，管理還是持續要做，但是只是不要情緒失控，這是我的建議。","再來，有關數位三箭，特別看到你的報告，強化打詐，公私協力，其中一樣剛剛很多委員提到，111政府短碼簡訊平臺上路，當然我講不幸中的大幸是因為它現在是用舊的2G，就是一個平臺用車載著到處去跑，然後去干擾現在可能5G、4G的訊號臺，然後它發出去，中間還有2G功能的手機能夠收到。可是你知道嗎？其實不光是2G手機，常常發的是「好康」啦，你知道其實也沒有純2G手機，太少了！可能就4G下容到3G、2G，它有這種功能、它收得到，結果訊號一關掉，它又恢復4G了，它趕快發給群組，一看這是好康的，政府又提供什麼了。所以這種東西，我是覺得也不能忽視，因為我比較擔心的是，我看到一個事情，不是111短碼簡訊、2G手機，它影響比較少，而是我看到一個問題，其實最認真去遵循推敲數位部、數發部以及NCC最新政策的，其實是詐騙集團，你知道嗎？你有什麼訊息，什麼可以代表政府公信力的，他們就跟上來，你想想看，像這樣的一個情況，111代表政府，現在大概網路去google，我可以看到十幾個、二十個機關，包括監理站，他們特別專業，內容傳送：各位！111，請不要擔心，絕對不是詐騙。同時間在幫你宣傳的有345個單位機關，你們整個用到現在也大概四千六百多萬通在發，如果你夾雜這個部分，等於這些宣傳機關也順便在幫忙詐騙集團，宣傳都不用宣傳了，因為大家都說111是標準的，然後你看看，8月1日的宣傳影片。","（播放影片）"],["魯委員明哲：好吧，安全又可靠。其實NCC發覺訊號異常的時候，它也不知道詐騙的手段，也不知道111，你們也沒有辦法知道是什麼111、它的方式如何嘛！是因為發覺訊號有異常，在新竹、高雄有異常，去追查到底為什麼有人一直在干擾，抓到人之後才發現是111。","最後一個，拜託！數位皮夾，剛剛陳素月召委在擔心數位皮夾，你把所有的證件弄進去，弄進去之後，像剛剛所說的，它可以在手機裡面把你相關資料偷走，或者把你的功能都關掉，讓你收不到。數位皮夾也是在手機裡面，這個部分你們在建置，現在花了大概兩億，今年加明年這兩年，大概會花到兩億六的預算，你們對於自己花兩億多建置的數位皮夾，有沒有信心？數位皮夾上路的時候，對於這種入侵式的或者copy抄襲式的，本身有足夠的防衛機制？你最後說明一下。"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛也跟委員報告，我們這個東西放在手機裡面有多重的保護，一個是需要一些像生物特徵的辨識才能進到這個皮夾，這個皮夾是用最新的加密技術，再加一個國際認證的標記和PKI這樣的一個技術，所以這個資料在你的手機裡面，一定要經過一些認證，這個認證是不是帳號密碼，而是你的生物特徵，不像FIDO這種，進去以後才去取到裡面資料，再去解密才能真的使用，所以有多重的保護，這個應該是相對的相當安全……"],["魯委員明哲：應該啦？應該。我們也希望真正的安全，政府做的，到時候如果真的發生詬病，那種反彈的壓力非常大，我們真的不希望道高一尺魔高一丈，這種詐騙集團在臺灣天天上演，我們不要每一次各單位跟NCC都追在詐團的後面，我們真的希望有方法堵在詐團的前面，一起努力，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲召委。","接下來我們請何欣純委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157824","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157824","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083601077f7501e7ce6f3ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a10696fa539d5614b54a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"13:24:06 - 13:35:36","影片長度":"00:11:30","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:24:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:35:36+08:00","duration":690,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.11096875,"end":1.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.36409375,"end":3.7434687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.764093750000001,"end":10.122218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.223468750000002,"end":10.476593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.52721875,"end":10.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.814093750000001,"end":14.745968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.745968750000003,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.20159375,"end":20.399093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.04034375,"end":22.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.41159375,"end":36.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.04221875,"end":36.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.32909375,"end":36.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.48096875,"end":43.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.517843750000004,"end":47.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.02346875,"end":68.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.15096875,"end":82.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.21221875,"end":84.05159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.10221875,"end":86.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.92034375,"end":88.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.77659375,"end":104.31846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.60534375,"end":104.94284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.31409375000001,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.31284375,"end":150.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.28596875000002,"end":171.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.39659375000002,"end":171.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.61596875,"end":172.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.66659375,"end":171.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.07159375,"end":179.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.46721875,"end":187.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.13784375,"end":180.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.61784375000002,"end":188.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.20409375,"end":209.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.90534375000001,"end":222.79784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.99346875,"end":213.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.96659375000002,"end":228.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.37909375,"end":233.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.32784375000003,"end":233.37846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.37846875000002,"end":233.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.39534375000002,"end":233.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.41221875000002,"end":233.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.49659375000002,"end":236.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.70284375000003,"end":240.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.73596875,"end":246.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.03971875000002,"end":241.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.18721875000003,"end":242.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.82784375000003,"end":270.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.22909375,"end":272.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.61284375,"end":273.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.08096875,"end":288.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.55971875,"end":295.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.73159375,"end":304.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.67534375,"end":320.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.33096875,"end":322.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.10284375000003,"end":324.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.77346875,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.54096875000005,"end":328.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.34659375,"end":330.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.35909375,"end":338.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.45909375,"end":368.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.88471875000005,"end":374.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.47034375000004,"end":390.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.02034375000005,"end":392.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.98221875,"end":392.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.99909375000004,"end":393.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.01596875,"end":393.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.74159375000005,"end":394.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.58096875,"end":397.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.31909375000004,"end":399.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.94346875,"end":401.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.31409375000004,"end":403.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.81596875,"end":407.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.11909375000005,"end":409.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.36346875000004,"end":411.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.01721875000004,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.06784375,"end":414.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.59909375,"end":415.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.67909375000005,"end":417.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.01221875000005,"end":420.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.81784375,"end":421.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.97346875000005,"end":422.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.46284375000005,"end":429.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.36034375,"end":435.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.72659375,"end":441.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.02596875,"end":438.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.68784375,"end":442.91534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.80971875,"end":444.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.83471875000004,"end":447.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.39971875000003,"end":453.46221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.46221875000003,"end":456.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.60471875,"end":460.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.78596875000005,"end":466.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.03471875,"end":462.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.20346875,"end":462.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.35534375000003,"end":462.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":462.49034375,"end":462.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.59159375,"end":462.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.82784375000006,"end":462.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.03034375000004,"end":463.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.16471875,"end":470.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.88534375,"end":481.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.52096875,"end":483.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.42784375,"end":485.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.50784375,"end":486.48659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.97596875000005,"end":487.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.61284375,"end":490.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.95846875,"end":492.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.62909375000004,"end":496.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.44284375,"end":496.54409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.54409375000006,"end":501.18471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.57784375000006,"end":496.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.43784375,"end":503.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.51346875,"end":507.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.64784375000005,"end":508.76159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":509.35221875,"end":514.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.76534375000006,"end":519.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.32096875,"end":521.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.0547187500001,"end":524.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.26534375,"end":526.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.8347187500001,"end":527.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.5772187499999,"end":528.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.9778437500001,"end":533.0615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.24284375,"end":535.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.35659375,"end":537.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.88784375,"end":539.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.59221875,"end":540.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.98846875,"end":543.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.65909375,"end":544.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.48159375,"end":547.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.68346875,"end":549.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.0209687500001,"end":555.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.00721875,"end":557.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.01971875,"end":559.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.10346875,"end":564.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.33096875,"end":572.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.1240937499999,"end":565.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.5659687500001,"end":576.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.5947187500001,"end":579.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.8603437500001,"end":578.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.96159375,"end":578.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.97846875,"end":579.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.06284375,"end":580.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.1472187500001,"end":581.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.1047187500001,"end":581.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.72909375,"end":588.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.0065937500001,"end":602.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.3090937500001,"end":596.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.16034375,"end":604.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.64096875,"end":610.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.46721875,"end":614.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.4284687500001,"end":615.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.6940937500001,"end":629.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.7765937500001,"end":630.3797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":630.9365937499999,"end":636.8428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.7465937500001,"end":632.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":637.06221875,"end":648.6047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.61346875,"end":678.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.9509687500001,"end":673.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.98471875,"end":674.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.1028437500001,"end":674.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":678.96284375,"end":682.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.08096875,"end":679.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":679.1315937500001,"end":680.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.4097187500001,"end":689.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.6497187500001,"end":685.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.96596875,"end":686.97846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.604,"end":20.202,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長好 請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞花署北分署的這個事件"},{"start":22.648,"end":42.341,"text":"我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣"},{"start":43.778,"end":67.116,"text":"一次走了81一位如果連親生那一位他也是有提出申請喔total是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個"},{"start":69.369,"end":86.084,"text":"這一個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了"},{"start":87.197,"end":104.103,"text":"這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助"},{"start":105.413,"end":107.354,"text":"在10月11日調查結果出來馬上立刻做處置"},{"start":120.518,"end":122.999,"text":"關於資訊：包括心智：人員調動的比例：內部有自己的統計：其他部會提供數位化的資訊嗎?"},{"start":140.373,"end":159.785,"text":"沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了齁,等一下我們就好好討論啦齁。我是提,我是說請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總處跟這個全庶部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。"},{"start":160.225,"end":188.436,"text":"我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是就是堅持這兩個單位的這系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果願意協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是這個"},{"start":189.616,"end":189.636,"text":"委員８"},{"start":209.989,"end":233.969,"text":"拜託部長,這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛,對不對?請教部長,可以嘛。好,那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦,那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角,還是要照顧家庭,或者是緩鄉,才導致自己單位的人力一直流失,那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛,就沒辦法嘛對不對?如果這個單位的階層"},{"start":236.775,"end":259.667,"text":"所長接著是認為這樣這個不是AI可以去處理嗎?對吧?對,但是沒有說這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣去人跟人的關係我知道我的題目都很單純嘛如果是這樣AI是沒辦法幫助嘛簡單講就這樣因為這個所長本身自己有主觀上的認定了嘛那剛剛你特別講到11月21號我本來沒要問你說我有跟你講一些比較有的對不對"},{"start":262.288,"end":285.893,"text":"知安署內部有情緒管控的問題轉觀存在。貼文講的這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群知安署的受迫員工借來澄清信,繼續血淚嘛。然後控制知安署的管理不當,直接點名知安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。"},{"start":288.612,"end":294.952,"text":"我是接到這個這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的"},{"start":295.902,"end":319.031,"text":"照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新單位大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有16512年是146113年剩下129或許146扣129少了17個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是42人平調7人降調14人辭職21人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題"},{"start":324.83,"end":327.672,"text":"本屬人員調子原因多屬外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量。"},{"start":346.503,"end":368.108,"text":"而調離現實至本署流動率偏高另又因這一個資産高階人才藍密且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過筆試面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及聘用人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這一個限制"},{"start":368.979,"end":390.404,"text":"至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責?"},{"start":395.609,"end":419.044,"text":"不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文這案是答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的"},{"start":423.335,"end":444.785,"text":"誰做成決議做這樣的公文書打呼到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啊你打呼我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定"},{"start":448.559,"end":456.363,"text":"報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容"},{"start":472.927,"end":490.452,"text":"議員８"},{"start":491.367,"end":504.782,"text":"對,責任使的回覆為什麼我給我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼還交代責任使的署長來做這樣的官腔官室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你說兩天用招40幾個"},{"start":507.685,"end":529.234,"text":"立法院第11屆第12會期交通委員會提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件閱讀委員我們現在在調查中這個回覆是我當然知道你在調查中嘛那院長交代一星期啊這個是一二一發生的事情已經過了一個禮拜了快兩個禮拜了啊那你怎麼還打呼我這種東西我沒有要求你給我調查報告跑了這麼多人兩年新的單位兩單位來找40幾個有嚴重嗎"},{"start":534.298,"end":558.872,"text":"有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這各位替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理?"},{"start":561.89,"end":563.753,"text":"你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢"},{"start":577.642,"end":595.911,"text":"那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嗎部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛"},{"start":605.694,"end":607.055,"text":"所以就叫做外界挖角吧"},{"start":630.987,"end":653.508,"text":"但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說"},{"start":655.089,"end":678.459,"text":"你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣講要被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這張我這張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的"},{"start":679.019,"end":685.39,"text":"我們會仔細調查在做適當的事情你們蘇華署會真的持續發生很多不可思議的事情"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1271,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時24分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉委員建國：部長，今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情。"],["黃部長彥男：劉委員好。"],["劉委員建國：就是有關目前公部門內爆發的霸凌問題。部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動部勞發署北分署這個事件？"],["黃部長彥男：有，這個事件……"],["劉委員建國：好。我是第一個提出了解到北分署人流異常的委員，包含勞發署也是一樣異常，也是在質詢的時候我問出來的。你看這名北分署長就任之後，不到兩年時間，他那個單位就好像大逃難一樣，一次走了81位，如果連輕生那一位，他也是有提出申請，total是82位，這是非常非常離譜的一件事情。面對人力流動異常的狀態，11月20號的時候在衛環委員會，我有特別要求質詢銓敘部跟人事總處，然後是否要建置一套預警的機制。當時銓敘部是這麼答復我的，他說公務人員離職及調動資料分別在這兩個單位處理，但是一直沒有辦法對接起來，可能要等到明年，我現在私底下了解，可能連明年都沒辦法對接了。臺灣是個數位資訊進步的國家，怎麼會離職跟調動的相關資料要對接起來這麼困難？所以我是希望可以請教部長，你對這個事情什麼看法？你這個單位、你們貴部能不能予以協助？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個，就是剛剛委員提到的霸凌這個事情，我也一直在強調，這是在我們單位也不容許的事情，所以我們現在已經啟動調查，當然在12月11號調查結果一出來，我們馬上做處置。另外剛剛委員講的資訊，就是包括薪資或是人員調動的比例，我們內部是有自己的統計，但是其他部會，我不知道委員指的是我們要提供數位化的資訊嗎？還是……"],["劉委員建國：沒有啦！我的問題很清楚，霸凌的事情我都還沒問你，你就直接講了，等一下我們就好好討論啦！我是今天來這邊拜託你，人事總處跟銓敘部對於離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來，他們說可能到明年才會完成，我私下了解可能連明年都對接不起來，怎麼接都接不上，站在數位部的角度、立場，跟你們的專業，能不能予以協助？我的問題就這樣而已啊！"],["黃部長彥男：關於建置這兩個單位系統的介接，這個我們請我們的數位政府……"],["劉委員建國：能不能予以協助啦？就這樣而已！"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["劉委員建國：可以就好，因為你們如果願意協助，應該就不用等到明年，甚至於遙遙無期一直對接不上！"],["黃部長彥男：我們數政司會……"],["劉委員建國：但是這不只是我要的東西，我要的應該是預警的系統跟機制，因為這個有建置起來，你才有辦法做這些事情啦！","我接下來就要說，只要數據資料庫能對接起來，導入AI去監控這個數據，特定單位的人流過於異常，系統自動提醒相關單位介入了解，這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛，對不對？請教部長。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["劉委員建國：可以嘛！好，但是如果這個單位的首長階層對人流異常完全不在乎，甚至認為自己單位的人員都是被挖角，還是要照顧家庭或者是返鄉，才導致自己單位的人力一直流失，這個恐怕不是AI可以去處理的嘛！沒辦法嘛，對不對？如果這個單位的首長階層是認為這樣，這個就不是AI可以去處理的嘛，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是……"],["劉委員建國：對嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯，這個是要靠訪談或怎麼樣，人跟人的關係還是要……"],["劉委員建國：我知道，我的題目都很單純。如果是這樣，AI也是沒辦法幫助嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒辦法！"],["劉委員建國：簡單講就這樣，因為這個首長本身自己有主觀上的一個認定了。剛剛你特別講到11月21號，我本來沒有要問，既然你說了，我就說多一點。資安署內部有情緒管控問題的長官存在，貼文講得這麼清楚，部長可以看，長官脾氣暴躁經常罵人，罵到牆壁都快倒下來的感覺，部長有掌握嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：有，我們現在在調查中。"],["劉委員建國：好，我這邊也同樣有接到署名一群資安署受迫員工寄來的陳情信，句句血淚，控訴資安署管理不當，直接點名資安署署長跟副署長飆罵下屬，言語霸凌，我是接到這個，這一張我有交給……"],["黃部長彥男：有，我們在查。"],["劉委員建國：有給部長室，部長，等一下看你怎麼答復的。照理講，一個新的單位基本上就像一個新大陸，大家都會想要轉調進去的一個單位，但是怎麼會現在都轉出來？資安署是111年8月27號成立，預算員額是165，112年是146，113年剩下129，146扣129，少了17個，大家覺得不怎麼樣，但是成立到現在總離職人數是42人，平調7人、降調14人、辭職21人，部長，你覺得這嚴不嚴重？這個單位有沒有出問題？"],["黃部長彥男：這個數目確實是比較偏高啦！所以我剛剛講……"],["劉委員建國：嚴不嚴重嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：算是嚴重。"],["劉委員建國：好，算是嚴重！你知道我給你的這個陳情書，你們怎麼回應我的嗎？主席，我念給大家聽一下，不好意思，占用一點時間。","本署人員調職原因多屬外界挖角、職涯發展、選擇返鄉家庭照顧，或經濟因素等考量而調離現職，致本署流動率偏高。另又因資安高階人才難覓，且本署進用人員過程嚴謹，需通過筆試、面試篩選，或因本署組織業務特性，公務人員及聘用人員進用需辦理查核，查核通過始得進用，相關人員亦受嚴格境管限制，致常遇到對外公告徵才無人報名，人員資格不符等狀況。未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留才作業，致力補實缺額。就是很難找人啊！難覓的資安高階人才，徵用過程嚴謹的，你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑掉42位，誰要負責？請回答我！"],["黃部長彥男：署長……"],["劉委員建國：誰該負責？不要再跟我講到別的地方，我時間到了。"],["謝署長翠娟：是，了解……"],["劉委員建國：誰該負責？"],["謝署長翠娟：謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼有這樣的答復？我給你這一張一群血淚員工的控訴，你給我答復這樣，還用正式公文，資安署答復的嗎？還是部長你授意他們這樣答復我的？"],["謝署長翠娟：跟委員報告一下……"],["劉委員建國：我跟你們沒完沒了！"],["謝署長翠娟：沒有。謝謝委員，真的非常謝謝委員關切我們的員工。"],["劉委員建國：這個是誰要求這樣答復的？誰作成決議以這樣的公文書答復到我的辦公室？我給你這一張，你給我這一個！誰決定的啦？你答復我誰決定的！我沒有問你其他問題，誰決定的？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，您手上的公文書……"],["劉委員建國：就是你資安署決定的，是不是？"],["謝署長翠娟：您給的公文書，因為投訴的對象……"],["劉委員建國：我不是給你公文書，我是給你陳情書，你是給我公文書，誰給的？誰做決定？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我們非常想要留所有的員工，所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤，他們到哪邊，我們都有……"],["劉委員建國：請答復我，誰給我這一張公文書？"],["謝署長翠娟：我們是……"],["劉委員建國：我給你員工的陳情信，你給我這張公文書，誰給我這一張？誰給我的公文書？誰回的這個內容？你們願意面對問題嗎？你們要處理問題嗎？你們如果要處理問題，連這樣正式答復的公文書都講到你們之間的矛盾、衝突，不近人性啊！離譜極致啊！部長，你要怎麼處理？"],["黃部長彥男：那個是資安署的回復嘛！"],["劉委員建國：對，資安署的回復，我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊！你為什麼要交代資安署的署長來做這樣的官腔官式的回復？然後自己在那邊打臉，就已經這麼難找人，這麼嚴謹了，還在兩年跑掉四十幾個，你還好意思說！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們現在在調查中，這個回復……"],["劉委員建國：我當然知道你在調查中，院長交代一星期啊，這個是1121發生的事情，已經過了一個禮拜，快兩個禮拜了，那你怎麼還答復我這種東西？我沒有要求你給我調查報告，跑了這麼多人，新的單位，兩年多來跑掉四十幾個，有嚴重嗎？有沒有嚴重嘛？你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才，這麼短的時間讓這麼多人跑掉，這還是鐵飯碗，連鐵飯碗都放棄，有的人是辭職耶！不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已耶！"],["莫處長永榮：跟委員報告，投訴的部分，我們有列專案小組的調查，以上報告。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你覺得他們回我這樣有道理嗎？回這一張公文書有沒有道理？"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，如果您覺得我們回復得不夠具體，其實我們每一個同仁離職的原因，我們都有去追蹤，我們給委員詳細的報告好嗎？"],["劉委員建國：你是覺得我覺得你給我回得不夠具體，所以我今天才來這邊質詢？那我們就讓它公開，讓大家很清楚你怎麼回我嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我部裡面現在就是剛剛講的，調查報告出來馬上會做處理，現在我們就是已經啟動……"],["劉委員建國：針對員工霸凌這件事情，我是請教部長，這麼短的時間內，資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才，對不對？這是你們寫的，那怎麼會在這麼短的時間讓42位同仁離開你們單位？誰該負責嘛？霸凌是另外一件事情嘛！人流異常這麼嚴重，比例這麼高，誰該負責嘛？你答復我這個問題啊！"],["黃部長彥男：這是署的工作，署長可以再說明……"],["謝署長翠娟：報告委員，我們非常希望留任員工，但是同仁如果在民間找到比較高的薪水，人事行政總處有要求我們必須尊重員工想要去找到更高的薪水，或者是更近的……"],["劉委員建國：所以就叫做外界挖角嘛？"],["謝署長翠娟：但是，委員，我有詳細的資料，就是每一個人去哪裡，這個都有詳細的資料，所以可以禁得起檢視，我們真的很想留員工，所以我們都會問員工你要去哪裡，然後薪水是多少，很多員工告訴我他的薪水變多，所以我們真的必須尊重。"],["劉委員建國：我要謝謝主席給我很長的時間，你如果這麼講，我實在也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了，反正我覺得你們就是很懇切的、很好的一個心情，希望留住更多同仁，但是他們就是因為怎麼樣、怎麼樣，被挖角了，如果你還這樣講，那好，我們就好好地來了解得更清楚嘛！這一張他們給我的陳情書，我再給部長，部長，如果你要再持續這樣答復我，我是覺得你們數發部真的……"],["黃部長彥男：我們會仔細調查，再做適當的……"],["劉委員建國：你們數發部真的會持續發生很多不可思議的事情！"],["黃部長彥男：好，了解。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝主席，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言，賴士葆，賴士葆委員不在。","羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋，羅廷瑋委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","王美惠、王美惠，王美惠委員不在。","張啓楷、張啓楷，張啓楷委員不在。","羅美玲、羅美玲，羅美玲委員不在。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，我們作以下決議：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員羅美玲所提書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。三、委員在質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請數位發展部儘速以書面答復。四、114年度數位發展部單位預算另擇期進行處理，委員預算提案在12月20號（星期五）中午12點前截止收件。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157823","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157823","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836058bf63757cac279dca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1061c7a1f58fb7c6e965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"13:15:36 - 13:23:56","影片長度":"00:08:20","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:15:36+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:23:56+08:00","duration":500,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.047843750000000004,"end":0.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.9590937500000001,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.629093750000001,"end":6.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.79784375,"end":54.891593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.055968750000005,"end":60.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.86534375,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.53221875,"end":92.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.82659375,"end":102.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.68159375,"end":104.45346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.14534375000001,"end":105.51659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.59659375000001,"end":107.06909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.64284375000001,"end":112.89096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.51534375000001,"end":118.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.03784375000001,"end":142.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.81034375000002,"end":147.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.14284375,"end":151.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.65284375000002,"end":158.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.50409375,"end":163.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.35971875,"end":165.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.94596875000002,"end":169.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.40096875,"end":174.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.34534375,"end":177.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.06221875,"end":178.99034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.73284375,"end":186.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.53346875000003,"end":192.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.94596875000002,"end":206.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.74971875,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.11909375000002,"end":226.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.10096875000002,"end":229.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.30721875,"end":230.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.10034375,"end":232.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.11284375000002,"end":238.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.40284375000002,"end":243.03096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.43159375000002,"end":245.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.64659375000002,"end":251.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.31659375,"end":259.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.31534375,"end":272.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.17409375,"end":274.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.92471875,"end":277.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.69659375000003,"end":277.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":277.03409375,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.28284375000004,"end":278.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.70471875000004,"end":281.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.50159375000004,"end":308.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.47221875,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.22721875,"end":311.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.23971875,"end":312.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.58534375,"end":316.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.14596875,"end":346.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.07784375,"end":351.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.68909375000004,"end":361.88159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.37096875000003,"end":395.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.05784375,"end":395.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.58096875,"end":412.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.74284375,"end":446.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.91471875,"end":448.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.39971875000003,"end":452.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.24721875,"end":452.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.98971875,"end":456.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.44909375000003,"end":458.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.18721875000006,"end":467.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.09284375000004,"end":480.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.95159375000003,"end":482.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.41534375000003,"end":484.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.81596875,"end":488.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.42721875,"end":489.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.93346875000003,"end":498.11346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.85221875,"end":496.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.82221875000005,"end":500.44221875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.029,"text":"我請黃部長好請部長好委員好好部長午安這個辛苦了已經一點多了本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的這個數位部打詐司法生肖的部分的有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究那如果說你有答案的話您就回答我如果沒有我希望事後能夠給我用一個報告的方式"},{"start":28.194,"end":34.175,"text":"首先我們需要肯定啦就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登那麼接下來呢有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC喔那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中喔這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地"},{"start":60.914,"end":77.832,"text":"但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta"},{"start":78.473,"end":105.708,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":108.936,"end":126.535,"text":"這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種"},{"start":127.316,"end":147.031,"text":"我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商"},{"start":148.148,"end":164.189,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":164.42,"end":178.718,"text":"第三種我現在講的第三種就是叫做自助投放自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式他用勾選條件的方法這個方法"},{"start":179.779,"end":204.604,"text":"他是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒"},{"start":206.784,"end":217.559,"text":"他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種"},{"start":219.161,"end":242.82,"text":"就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔"},{"start":245.686,"end":270.785,"text":"因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別針對這個來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google林博朗應該是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然"},{"start":272.326,"end":289.596,"text":"所以包括我講的第三屆自助投放的方式也可以?這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛 對不對"},{"start":295.52,"end":312.961,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":313.635,"end":333.85,"text":"有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告"},{"start":337.992,"end":365.778,"text":"誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合的當然就是google跟9他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook"},{"start":366.098,"end":394.563,"text":"所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實"},{"start":395.743,"end":400.407,"text":"最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打詐所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化"},{"start":422.145,"end":425.229,"text":"如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐司法的"},{"start":441.147,"end":457.454,"text":"就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度玩練因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種"},{"start":459.194,"end":472.64,"text":"對嗎?除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人"},{"start":480.981,"end":500.35,"text":"﹗"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1241,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（13時15分）謝謝主席。主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長午安。辛苦了！已經一點多了，本席會快速的針對有關於接下來我們要上路的數位部打詐四法生效部分，有關於實際產業面的問題來跟您做一個探討跟研究，如果你有答案的話您就回答我；如果沒有，我希望事後能夠給我一個報告。首先我必需要肯定，就是針對現在網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登，那麼接下來有六大平台被點名，會針對廣告委託託播者的身分驗證，我們簡單講就是所謂的KYC，那麼這六大平台現在被點名的這六個當中，部長，哪些有落地、哪些沒有落地？"],["黃部長彥男：目前都有申請所謂法律代表人，都已經申請了。"],["林委員楚茵：但是有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在臺灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣，他們遵循的臺灣法規也就不一樣，我想部長應該知道的。比如今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta就是有一個所謂代表人，但其實事實上它沒有分公司在這裡，它也只接廣告業務；但是比如像LINE，它其實是有分公司在這裡，他們遵循國內的法規就不一樣。那麼接下來我們打詐四法要針對廣告來做KYC的時候，部長，您知不知道其實下廣告的方法不一樣，有哪幾種方法，你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個詳細我不清楚，但是我們剛剛講，其實納管的意思就是如果有發現它沒有廣告實名制，我們就……"],["林委員楚茵：好，部長，我來告訴你好了，因為本席來自於業界，我雖然在媒體圈，但是媒體圈廣告非常重要，其實平台也是媒體，有三大種，我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下，第一種叫做平台直客，就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告，我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題、我有稅務的問題，在場的大家都會被實名制；另外一種叫代理商，所有的平台都一樣，不論是電視、報紙、電視台、甚至於平台都一樣，同樣的透過代理商，代理商今天怕收不到錢，它也一定會實名制，為什麼？不然我現在幫你上完廣告你跑掉，那我跟誰收錢？第三種，我現在要講的第三種就是叫做自助投放，自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式，他用勾選條件的方法，這個方法是透過一個網際網路跨域性的。我必需要講，部長，我們立法雖然立意良善，但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合，今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式去登廣告了，我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台，很多媒體、網媒看起來很像狗皮膏藥，每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩，要把它點掉的那個廣告多數就是透過我講的第三種，所謂的自助投放的方式，這種請問數發部現在找到未來讓他KYC的方法嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：像Google就……"],["林委員楚茵：我跟你說喔，如果你沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉，尤其他是跨網域，他可能是外國人，他不是跳板，他本身就從外國進來，你根本抓不到這個人喔！因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論，沒有人特別針對這個來點出來，所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢？我也要提醒你們。我想請問一下，現在在部長旁邊的是？"],["林代理署長俊秀：我稍微跟委員說明一下，Google聯播網應該是最大的，可能委員指的是這一個。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["林代理署長俊秀：我們要求Google一定要把後面下廣告的人實名制，所以我們當然……"],["林委員楚茵：所以包括我講的第三點，自助投放的方式也可以？"],["林代理署長俊秀：是，Google也答應我們。"],["林委員楚茵：好，就是在上路之後可以實施？"],["林代理署長俊秀：對。"],["林委員楚茵：因為這個部分非常重要，如果可以的話當然是最好！另外，你們現在講的要求平臺定期發布透明度報告，也就是要有所謂的白名單，對不對？現在我們所點名的六大平臺當中，我必須說每一個狀況不一樣，你們手上針對掌握他們在被詐騙廣告投放的比率，包括內容有沒有一定，他們這六個絕對不可能每一個擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的，那你們現在有一個數字嗎？比如說，Google、YouTube、LINE、Facebook、Instagram跟TikTok，誰最嚴重？誰是屬於前段班的學生？誰是屬於後段班的學生？本席要提問的第二個問題是，這六大平臺當中有沒有一個現有的報告，誰在詐騙防範當中、打詐防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府？誰是屬於特別不想合作、不配合，或相應不理的？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作，最配合當然就是Google跟LINE，他們現在已經開始落實實名制，目前最大的假廣告來源是在Facebook。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["黃部長彥男：Meta也答應我們，現在已經開始實施針對所謂高風險的客戶，它答應我們在1月底以前會全面實施，我們也在後面督促，我們密切跟他們保持交流，確定他們有照這個進度在實施，如果照他們所答應我們的作法，應該是在1月底以前全面實施實名制，包括剛剛講的三種廣告的態樣，他們都會去落實。"],["林委員楚茵：好，最後本席想再借用主席一點時間，就是董瑞斌以銀行公會理事長說金融打詐，所以全面無法實名制的都要全部不下廣告。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員楚茵：這個本席是贊同，也認可，但是就像本席剛剛講的，在這六大平臺或幾大平臺當中，有優等生，也有好像鞭子不打下來就不動的，所以要有差異化，如果願意認真配合我們實施打詐，讓詐騙無所遁形的，我們可以給予肯定，甚至於公布白名單。所以本席要建議，除了定期讓他們交報告之外，這些不法的、不乖的、不願意配合我們打詐四法的，就公布它，甚至於在稅法、稅務上面，跟財政部、金管會或者是NCC、交通部一起合作，讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度頑劣，因為就像我講的，登廣告方式有三種，對不對？除了自主投放的之外，還有直客，還有代理商，我們就希望所有直客、代理商，不是只有董瑞斌說相關的銀行、保險、證券、期貨不要投廣告，全民都不要投廣告，所有企業都不要投廣告，這樣它才會怕！但是同樣的，也不要一竿子打翻全船人，願意配合的、優秀的、有改善的，就把它公布出來，黑名單、白名單一併公布，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：本席關心的有關自主投放式廣告怎麼樣納管，是不是會後也可以給我一個比較詳細的說明，好嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157822","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157822","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360cfc6dd06bd39f333ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a10686cf5dcbc0b7422b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"13:07:08 - 13:15:20","影片長度":"00:08:12","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:07:08+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:15:20+08:00","duration":492,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.09846875000000001,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.06784375,"end":7.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.30346875,"end":12.180968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.653468750000002,"end":17.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.27284375,"end":19.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.12909375,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.089718750000003,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.56096875,"end":39.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.77159375,"end":41.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.830343750000004,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.29409375,"end":48.782843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.96846875,"end":51.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.516593750000006,"end":55.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.56659375,"end":57.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.21596875,"end":60.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.899093750000006,"end":62.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.907218750000006,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.26534375,"end":68.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.01596875,"end":69.94409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.56846875000001,"end":71.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.28971875,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.54659375,"end":77.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.44909375,"end":79.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.38971875,"end":81.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.41909375,"end":81.50346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.50346875000001,"end":81.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.65534375,"end":81.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.31346875,"end":83.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.47784375,"end":91.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.08909375,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.95784375000001,"end":90.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":92.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.79284375,"end":96.48846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.51409375,"end":96.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.82596875,"end":99.81284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.56409375000001,"end":99.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.42034375,"end":107.23784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.52471875,"end":109.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.97159375000001,"end":110.44409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.44409375000001,"end":111.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.16971875,"end":111.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.55784375,"end":111.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.09784375000001,"end":116.29971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.24471875,"end":118.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.49346875,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.42159375000001,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.94471875,"end":129.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.24284375000002,"end":129.25971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.93034375000002,"end":130.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.94721875000002,"end":133.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.23784375,"end":138.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.84471875,"end":152.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.27721875,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.36159375,"end":152.41221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.61471875,"end":153.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.63159375,"end":152.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.30221875,"end":157.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.53346875,"end":160.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.02284375000002,"end":161.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.28409375,"end":165.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.18221875,"end":171.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.60346875000002,"end":180.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.89721875,"end":185.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.53784375,"end":187.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.41096875000002,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.28409375,"end":190.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.52846875,"end":193.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.24534375000002,"end":196.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.91159375,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.02909375000002,"end":212.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.23846875,"end":212.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.45346875,"end":212.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.60534375,"end":212.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.62221875,"end":212.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.87534375,"end":214.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.64721875,"end":214.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.00159375,"end":215.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.38971875000001,"end":218.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.51159375,"end":220.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.75596875000002,"end":225.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.27846875,"end":227.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.04596875000001,"end":230.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.08346875,"end":233.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.05346875,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.87346875000003,"end":253.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.96596875000003,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.03721875,"end":257.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.74596875000003,"end":257.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.77971875000003,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.38284375,"end":270.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.92159375,"end":269.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.41909375,"end":270.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.97596875,"end":272.89971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.60846875000004,"end":276.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.16909375,"end":280.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.30346875000004,"end":286.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.27721875000003,"end":288.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.82971875000004,"end":291.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.27659375,"end":293.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.11159375,"end":296.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.81159375000004,"end":300.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.38471875000005,"end":306.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.97034375000004,"end":308.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.86034375,"end":309.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.97409375,"end":315.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.64409375,"end":319.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.30159375,"end":321.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.44909375000003,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.56596875,"end":340.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.19284375,"end":347.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.58846875,"end":349.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.30534375,"end":353.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.23721875,"end":355.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.75596875,"end":364.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.85159375,"end":367.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.93971875,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.01971875000004,"end":375.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.70221875000004,"end":379.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.90409375,"end":382.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.95409375,"end":386.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.56971875000005,"end":387.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.16846875000005,"end":393.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.37034375,"end":394.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.02409375,"end":396.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.30221875,"end":400.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.33534375000005,"end":404.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.09846875000005,"end":406.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.74784375,"end":409.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.67159375,"end":418.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.15534375000004,"end":424.89284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.46659375,"end":427.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.26784375000005,"end":431.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.71034375000005,"end":433.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.05596875000003,"end":435.32159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.89534375000005,"end":442.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.20221875000004,"end":444.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.61534375,"end":448.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.32784375000006,"end":450.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.03221875,"end":452.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.90534375000004,"end":456.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.06096875000003,"end":456.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.31409375000004,"end":459.03096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.30096875000004,"end":462.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.97971875,"end":466.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.33784375000005,"end":466.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.48534375,"end":468.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.22346875000005,"end":470.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.07971875000004,"end":472.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.73346875000004,"end":474.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.79221875,"end":478.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.18409375000005,"end":481.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.26784375000005,"end":485.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.98034375000003,"end":487.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.03909375,"end":489.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.03034375000004,"end":490.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.57846875,"end":493.65846875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.569,"end":2.251,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩有請部長來請部長部長好,延續上一次的主題,你們數位部也好,數發部也好"},{"start":18.342,"end":42.862,"text":"推了很多計畫然後那個計畫的內容我上次問你兩年砸了3億要數位富能推動銀髮世代社會連結計畫那到底具體的成效是什麼我請你們會後給我資料你們會後給我的資料不好意思部長我講的比較直接一點一堆官樣文章一堆官樣文章"},{"start":44.349,"end":69.738,"text":"我們以前啊在大學的時候我相信部長經驗也很豐富啊大家審過非常多的計畫什麼是官樣文章啊什麼是有具體的成效其實我們大家都讀得出來內行人不要講外行話但讓我生氣的是什麼讓我生氣的事情是我諮詢完以後結果你們數位部很老的啊很老的啊"},{"start":70.892,"end":99.32,"text":"處理的方式這個計畫點擊率慘不能讀乾脆把它遮掩掉這個是誰下的決定啊是部長下令的嗎那個報告員那個這是他們那個在跟我報告的時候他是說我們不好意思一個問題一個問題第一個誰下令把它拿掉的是我們的內部人員在你們內部人員權力這麼大喔那當然是有跟我報告但是我所以你同意是嗎"},{"start":100.481,"end":128.977,"text":"我同意是因為那個這個因為我們有4000多個資訊那當然就是我們8有超過8萬人次來來來來4000多個資訊有超過8萬次8萬人次好8萬人次吧那平均每一個資訊多少人次數學沒有那麼難啊4000多個資訊有8萬人次但是這個報告委員這個沒辦法平均因為有些訊息很多人想看那有些人看的人就比較沒有啦不要講空的啦"},{"start":130.967,"end":149.039,"text":"我上次這個點擊率慘不能賭嘛啊你們處理問題的方式是什麼不是解決問題啊是把發現問題的線索全部都抹掉啊點擊人數直接拿掉掩耳盜鈴啊你們後來說有4000多個頁面4000多個資訊那總點擊率是8萬多嘛那我就問你嘛一個頁面一個資訊的點擊率是多少"},{"start":159.574,"end":179.684,"text":"平均是多少?就20次嘛!這個數學有這麼困難嗎?不是 這個報告委員 這個因為4000多個頁面 有的可能會有破萬的點擊 有的可能只有幾個沒有錯 那沒有關係啊哪一個點擊率好 哪一個點擊率不好老老實實的呈現出來給大家看 有什麼問題啊"},{"start":180.965,"end":199.143,"text":"奇怪耶!民進黨政府從2016年以來講的口號是什麼啊?是開放政府耶!是公開透明耶!這個符合開放政府的理念嗎?這個符合公開透明的理念嗎?還是點擊率不好?慘不忍睹?"},{"start":200.024,"end":227.02,"text":"最快的方式是什麼直接點擊率把它刪掉讓大家不要看我們有一個總體點擊率報告委員這個上次看到這個number報告我剛講8萬人支持我們以為我們是10月20幾號再上去沒有關係啊那你就把它放上去嘛半年以後我們再看一次啊一年以後再看一次啊你書發布可以開記者會可以發新聞稿做各式各樣的澄清嘛"},{"start":228.321,"end":253.276,"text":"所以我們上去的時間比較短所以這個數字可能比較難看我們相信半年以後一年以後這個數字一定會大幅提升能夠好好的擴大我們的引法族跟社會的連結各項活動各項計畫沉積斐然請社會大眾拭目以待一個有信心的政府"},{"start":254.036,"end":270.541,"text":"一個號稱要公開透明的政府不是應該這樣做嗎?部長我有沒有說錯?那個謝謝委員的指導那我想這個其實很簡單那如果委員認為這個數字很重要我們就再把它放回去好把它放回去齁我們過一段時間繼續再來檢驗我老實跟你講啦為什麼我覺得這個計畫非常的荒謬"},{"start":277.653,"end":299.858,"text":"點進去還不一定會真的去參加那個活動真的要計算KPI是什麼真的要計算KPI是說我投了這幾億下去做了這些事情我實際產出的output是什麼所以我實際產出的output我老實講也不是上去看點擊幾次而是實際到那個地方參與那個活動的人因為這個"},{"start":301.451,"end":319.367,"text":"而增加了多少這個才是實際的Major的方式嘛但問題是什麼但問題是說有點幾並不代表什麼並不代表有趣但是什麼如果連點都不點的話代表他的效益我可以很確定的講是ZERO"},{"start":320.359,"end":346.806,"text":"是零嘛你們該做的事情不是直接把點擊的次數抹掉你們該做的事情是除了點擊的次數以外到那個空間到那個地點參與那個活動的你們進一步去調查請問你來參加這個活動獲得資訊的管道是什麼你才有辦法去major你這個計畫實際產生的效用跟output是什麼嘛"},{"start":347.842,"end":366.88,"text":"這個是一個非常簡單的道理我沒有辦法理解啦數位部為什麼沒有辦法理解這麼簡單的道理但是我上次是善意跟部長講請你回去了解這些計畫因為如果實際上面執行的成果是這個樣子你會很難說服很多的委員"},{"start":367.981,"end":395.836,"text":"在明年繼續支持這個計畫相同的狀況一樣我代部長看我上次問說次世代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬到底在做什麼因為我為什麼會有這個困惑因為這個困惑是連審查委員都說與既有的計畫高度重疊這不是我講的是審查委員講的"},{"start":397.352,"end":424.625,"text":"然後呢你們給我的書面回覆我不知道部長有沒有看你說啊這裡面有什麼有智慧教育也有智慧醫療但人家在說的是什麼你的智慧教育智慧醫療跟教育部的校園五級示範教室跟學習載具計畫到底有什麼不同跟衛福部導入五級級智慧科技提升醫療與健康照護有什麼不同"},{"start":425.546,"end":448.308,"text":"因為這些計畫書我全部都拜讀過了我拜讀完了以後不好意思我跟部長講我陷入了極度的迷惘到底有什麼不一樣不同的部會用計畫當名目找一些fancy的詞幾億幾億這樣的花我們的政府很有錢那個主席已經站起來我拜託部長"},{"start":449.386,"end":466.413,"text":"我再給你們一次機會我再給你們一次機會這個計畫存在的意義跟目的到底是什麼跟其他部會的計畫到底有什麼不一樣你們第一次送來給我的書面回覆我看完了但我看完以後的心得就像我剛剛跟部長報告一樣"},{"start":467.54,"end":467.78,"text":"好 謝謝黃國昌"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1204,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（13時7分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好！延續上一次的主題，你們數位部也好、數發部也好推了很多計畫，那個計畫的內容我上次問你，兩年砸了3億要做數位賦能推動銀髮世代社會連結計畫，到底具體的成效是什麼？我請你們會後給我資料。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["黃委員國昌：你們會後給我的資料，不好意思，部長，我講的比較直接一點，一堆官樣文章！一堆官樣文章！我們以前在大學的時候，我相信部長經驗也很豐富，大家審過非常多的計畫，什麼是官樣文章、什麼是有具體的成效其實我們大家都讀得出來，內行人不要講外行話，但讓我生氣的是什麼？讓我生氣的事情是我質詢完以後，結果你們數位部很厲害、很厲害，處理的方式是這個計畫點擊率慘不忍睹就乾脆把它遮掩掉！這個是誰下的決定？是部長下令的嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這是他們在跟我報告的時候，他是說我們整個……"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思哦，一個問題、一個問題來。"],["黃部長彥男：對、對，我……"],["黃委員國昌：第一個，誰下令把它拿掉的？"],["黃部長彥男：是我們的內部人員在……"],["黃委員國昌：你們內部人員權力這麼大喔？"],["黃部長彥男：那當然是有跟我報告，但是我……"],["黃委員國昌：所以你同意是嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我同意是因為我們有四千多個資訊、超過8萬人次……"],["黃委員國昌：來、來、來，四千多個資訊有超過8萬次？"],["黃部長彥男：8萬人次。"],["黃委員國昌：好，8萬人次嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：對、對。"],["黃委員國昌：平均每一個資訊多少人次？數學沒有那麼難，四千多個資訊有8萬人次。"],["黃部長彥男：但是報告委員，這個沒辦法平均，因為有些訊息很多人想看，有些看的人就比較少。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有啦，不要講空的啦，這個點擊率慘不忍睹嘛！你們處理問題的方式是什麼？不是解決問題啊，而是把發現問題的線索全部都抹掉啊！把點擊人數直接拿掉，掩耳盜鈴啊！你們後來說有四千多個頁面，四千多個資訊總點擊率是八萬多，那我就問你，一個頁面一個資訊的點擊率是多少？平均是多少？就20次嘛！這個數學有這麼困難嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：不是，報告委員，因為四千多個頁面有的可能會有破萬的點擊率，有的可能只有幾個沒有錯，所以……"],["黃委員國昌：那沒有關係啊，哪一個點擊率好、哪一個點擊率不好就老老實實的呈現出來給大家看，有什麼問題啊？奇怪耶！民進黨政府從2016年以來講的口號是什麼啊？是開放政府耶！是公開透明耶！這個符合開放政府的理念嗎？這個符合公開透明的理念嗎？還是點擊率不好、慘不忍睹，最快的方式是什麼？就是直接把點擊率刪掉，讓大家不要看？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有一個總體點擊率，不過報告委員，上次看到的這個number，包括我剛才講的8萬人次，因為我們是十月二十幾號才上架。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啊，那你就把它放上去嘛……"],["黃部長彥男：因為我們上架……"],["黃委員國昌：半年以後我們再看一次啊、一年以後再看一次啊！數發部可以開記者會、發新聞稿或做各式各樣的澄清，你可以說我們上架的時間比較短，所以這個數字可能比較難看，我們相信半年以後、一年以後這個數字一定會大幅提升，能夠好好的擴大我們的銀髮族跟社會的連結，各項活動、各項計畫成績斐然，請社會大眾拭目以待。一個有信心的政府、一個號稱要公開透明的政府不是應該這樣做嗎？部長，我有沒有說錯？"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的指導，我想這個其實很簡單，如果委員認為這個數字很重要，我們就再把它放回去，沒問題。"],["黃委員國昌：好，把它放回去，我們過一段時間繼續再來檢驗。"],["黃部長彥男：好，再來看。"],["黃委員國昌：我老實跟你講啦，為什麼我覺得這個計畫非常的荒謬？點進去還不一定會真的去參加那個活動，真的要計算KPI是什麼？真的要計算KPI是投了這幾億下去做了這些事情，實際產出的output是什麼，所以實際產出的output我老實講也不是上去看點擊幾次，而是實際到那個地方參與那個活動的人因為這個而增加了多少，這個才是實際的measure的方式嘛。問題是有點擊並不代表有去！但是如果連點都不點的話，代表它的效益我可以很確定的講是zero！是零嘛！你們該做的事情不是直接把點擊的次數抹掉，你們該做的事情是除了點擊的次數以外，到那個空間、到那個地點參與那個活動的，你們進一步去調查請問來參加這個活動獲得資訊的管道是什麼？你才有辦法去measure這個計畫實際產生的效用跟output是什麼。這個是一個非常簡單的道理，我沒有辦法理解數位部為什麼沒有辦法理解這麼簡單的道理，但是我上次是善意跟部長講，請你回去瞭解這些計畫，因為如果實際上執行的成果是這個樣子，你會很難說服很多委員在明年繼續支持這個計畫。","相同的狀況一樣，我帶部長看，我上次問次世代行動創新應用賦能發展計畫2年2億1,300萬到底在做什麼？我為什麼會有這個困惑？因為這個困惑是連審查委員都說與既有的計畫高度重疊，這不是我講的，這是審查委員講的。然後你們給我的書面回復我不知道部長有沒有看，你說這裡面有智慧教育、也有智慧醫療。但人家在說的是什麼？你的智慧教育、智慧醫療跟教育部的校園5G示範教室與學習載具計畫到底有什麼不同？跟衛福部的導入5G及智慧科技提升醫療與健康照護有什麼不同？因為這些計畫書我全部都拜讀過了，我拜讀完了以後，不好意思，我跟部長講，我陷入了極度的迷惘，到底有什麼不一樣？不同的部會用計畫當名目，找一些fancy的詞，幾億幾億這樣的花，我們的政府很有錢喔？","主席已經站起來，我拜託部長，我再給你們一次機會、這個計畫存在的意義跟目的到底是什麼？跟其他部會的計畫到底有什麼不一樣？你們第一次送來給我的書面回復我看完了，但我看完以後的心得就像我剛剛跟部長報告一樣，每一句話我都看得懂，但看完了以後我不知道你的key point是什麼，沒有辦法解決這個問題。我再給數位部一次機會，如果這一次所提出來的說明一樣沒有辦法說服的話，那到預算程序的時候該刪的就刪，政府不可以浪費公帑。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們再給委員報告。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃國昌委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請林楚茵委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157821","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157821","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083600686e1bef4f46c4f4a6acd55cc740f50b44eee46cb88a1066249bd8a06f3bcbd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"13:24:44 - 13:34:38","影片長度":"00:09:54","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:24:44+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:34:38+08:00","duration":594,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":11.320343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.286593750000002,"end":11.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.556593750000001,"end":24.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.43221875,"end":24.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.73596875,"end":39.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.05846875,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.10034375,"end":44.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.424718750000004,"end":47.314718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.415968750000005,"end":50.031593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.369093750000005,"end":51.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.719093750000006,"end":54.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.62159375,"end":55.549718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.853468750000005,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.10596875,"end":63.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.22346875000001,"end":66.51846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.65346875,"end":66.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.68721875,"end":66.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.73784375000001,"end":84.45659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.45659375000001,"end":84.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.74346875,"end":98.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.61471875000001,"end":103.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.47471875000001,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.74846875,"end":132.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.36471875,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.72096875,"end":170.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.82284375,"end":174.38346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.75471875000002,"end":211.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.89659375000002,"end":251.62034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.73471875,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.34346875000003,"end":241.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.98471875,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.87909375,"end":243.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.17846875,"end":244.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.43971875000003,"end":246.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.62034375000002,"end":251.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.72159375,"end":254.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.82284375,"end":251.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.08409375000002,"end":254.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.23596875,"end":256.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.32034375,"end":254.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.71659375,"end":307.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.29096875000005,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.59346875,"end":315.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.96471875000003,"end":316.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.63471875000005,"end":321.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.03534375000004,"end":335.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.81159375000004,"end":323.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.84534375000004,"end":325.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.16409375,"end":336.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.46784375000004,"end":336.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.80534375,"end":369.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.61034375,"end":372.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.76596875,"end":395.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.02409375,"end":412.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.67346875000004,"end":398.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.46659375,"end":398.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.86096875000004,"end":454.84596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.89659375,"end":456.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.56721875000005,"end":497.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":497.64096875,"end":536.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.5815937500001,"end":526.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":537.1284687500001,"end":539.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.11971875,"end":542.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.78159375,"end":544.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.80659375,"end":552.8390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.29534375,"end":552.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":552.92346875,"end":576.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.0034687500001,"end":554.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.2397187500001,"end":554.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.62346875,"end":555.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.59784375,"end":557.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.64659375,"end":570.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.24471875,"end":581.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.3459687500001,"end":576.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.7547187499999,"end":581.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.03284375,"end":585.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.0490937500001,"end":589.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.60971875,"end":592.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.84971875,"end":594.55409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.01,"end":23.989,"text":"不過在這個之前我還是要講一下說真的立法委員之間沒有在互相監督我們監督的對象應該是行政院各部會的體系但是很多委員會習慣性的用言論免責權在那邊造謠我給你舉一個非常簡單的例子還記得之前我有提出立法委員去中國要報備的法案那當然是被他們阻擋"},{"start":24.85,"end":44.432,"text":"然後呢,我在那個專訪裡面呢,從頭到尾就在提說,風險高低,我認為立法委員風險高,所以他去中國應該要報備。整篇專訪都有全程的錄影,我一個字都沒有提到中配啦。就中配兩個字完全沒有出現在我的言論裡面。結果呢,台灣的媒體就下一個標題,難道沈伯央要管控中配嗎?然後就問號。"},{"start":45.473,"end":59.065,"text":"接下來羅志強上來質詢以後他每一次就說沈伯陽說要管控總配我根本講都沒講過這就是他們造謠產業鏈的方式剛剛也是一樣他就在講說我說兩岸交流全部都是統戰"},{"start":60.168,"end":81.685,"text":"我的原文講得很清楚對台灣而言我們想要做交流但是對中國而言他們都要用這個交流當作統戰所以我們要做風險的控管就那麼簡單的一個句子他都只取了中間的那一段說省不要說全部的交流都是統戰我還記得因為媒體報導一開始也有偏差但我們直接跟媒體更正媒體直接就更正了因為他們就發現"},{"start":82.506,"end":83.287,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":98.669,"end":125.899,"text":"我有問文化部說這一次馬龍來的這個問題因為很明顯他有共青團的人他有共產黨的人所以呢他的統戰的目的會比較強烈就是比一般的交流團更強烈那他在那麼強烈的狀況之下剛剛我記得那個異川委員有問說那個紅線到底在哪裡那文化部那時候的答案是說還是要因為他要跟大家開會嘛他沒有辦法一個人去做這樣的決定但很明顯在今天應該說昨天啊開始他們就做了一些碰觸紅線的舉動"},{"start":127.319,"end":147.028,"text":"那我覺得這件事情很麻煩的原因是因為主委應該自己都知道交流團太多了然後你陸委會不可能每一個都跟在旁邊當然你會請他簽一些就說你不能做什麼不能做什麼但在執法的量能上面陸委會他本身就不是一個執法單位所以現在麻煩的地方是說如果他自己說他都有按照行程走"},{"start":147.728,"end":148.228,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":170.876,"end":172.057,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":189.455,"end":210.351,"text":"所以就變成說這邊有一些灰色的地帶那這個灰色地帶以後我相信內委會不可能突然出現那麼多的執法量能所以這也是為什麼我覺得可能在一開始的時候我們要先做一些風險的控管是不是有些個別一開始乾脆不要允許然後能夠在我們能夠看得到的量能之下我們讓他們過來但是要限制他所做的行為那不知道這個未來的規劃會是什麼"},{"start":211.972,"end":240.603,"text":"是 非常感謝委員剛剛的寶貴建議像那個重要的這個這個交流點那我們比如說中山女眾那因為她是大學交流怎麼會到高中交流呢那後來還有一些一些很不堪的說法那讓這個中山女眾的師生都很憤怒我們也是同感憤怒不應該如此但是那一場我們就有會同如果會同教育部的人到現場去訪視"},{"start":242.063,"end":243.385,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":256.82,"end":259.163,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":272.282,"end":273.643,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":298.132,"end":304.095,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":326.485,"end":344.432,"text":"因為中國會去利用交流做統戰那我們能夠做的事情不是說把交流全部砍掉不是嘛我們做的事情就是他每次要利用的那個點我給他堵住我不能讓他又比如說這次交流的某一個部分來做統戰我們每一個都堵住那這樣的話我們就可以讓他回歸正常方式的交流"},{"start":345.072,"end":352.919,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":372.996,"end":395.127,"text":"我想陸團的人他當然不能完全享有我們台灣的言論自由所以我們當然會用我們目前兩岸的許可辦法或是他所承諾的這些聲明書來歸管他這是必然的所以我們也會基於這些違反我們既有的規定進行必要的行政查處與處分"},{"start":396.207,"end":398.009,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":413.044,"end":430.214,"text":"對,我不給你中華台北我就給你中國台北所以這是一個很強烈的政治宣示任何北韓現在如果在南韓去宣稱南韓是他的一部分如果今天俄羅斯去宣稱烏克蘭是他的一部分這個都會是作戰的一環這絕對不是什麼意見表達的自由啊"},{"start":430.774,"end":432.795,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":456.984,"end":471.755,"text":"所以他一方面講的那麼威嚇性另外一方面又用很軟性的方式去表達這個其實就是我們需要特別去提防的事情但最後我還是要提一下就是如果這件事情一再的發生比如說馬英九基金會"},{"start":472.595,"end":497.382,"text":"他這個邀請的如果三番兩次有這樣的違反的話我記得今天應該有提到是不是應該要至少限制他能夠再去邀訪的這一個次數或者時間等等之類的那不然的話他違反等於他沒有一個很確切的成本那對他來講他以後要實行這個幫助中國做統戰的成本會太低那這一方面我想說剛剛其實有稍微在逸川的那邊說回答到那是不是能夠再說一次這個部分"},{"start":497.682,"end":502.405,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":517.276,"end":517.816,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":537.422,"end":538.644,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":553.141,"end":553.742,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":582.362,"end":583.564,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":3177,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（13時24分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沈委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：主委好。今天大家問的問題應該都很一致，不過在此之前，我還是要講一下，說真的立法委員之間沒有在互相監督的，我們監督的對象應該是行政院各部會的體系；但是很多委員會習慣性的用言論免責權在這邊造謠，我跟你舉一個非常簡單的例子。還記得之前，我曾提出立法委員去中國要報備的這個法案，當然是被他們阻擋，然後我在一個專訪裡面，從頭到尾都是提風險高低的問題，我認為立法委員風險高，所以他去中國應該要報備。整篇專訪都全程錄影，我一個字都沒有提到中配，就是中配兩個字完全沒有出現在我的言論裡面，結果臺灣的媒體就下一個標題─難道沈伯洋要管控中配嗎？羅智強上來質詢以後，每次就說沈伯洋說要管控中配，我根本講都沒講過，這就是他們造謠產業鏈的方式。","剛剛也是一樣，他就在講我說兩岸交流全部都是統戰，我的原文講得很清楚：對臺灣而言，我們想要做交流，但是對中國而言，他們都要用這個交流當作統戰，所以我們要做風險的控管。就那麼簡單的一個句子，他只取了中間的那一段，說沈伯洋說全部的交流都是統戰。我記得一開始媒體報導也有偏差，我們直接跟媒體更正，媒體直接就更正了，因為他們發現原來我的原文根本就不是這樣講。他們都一直用這樣的方式來質詢來造謠，我當然覺得這樣很不對，也會陷陸委會於不義。","接連這個問題，我想提的就是上個禮拜還是上上禮拜，那時候陸委會不在，我問文化部這一次馬龍來的這個問題，因為很明顯還有共青團的人，還有共產黨的人，所以它的統戰目的會比一般的交流團更強烈。在那麼強烈的狀況之下，我記得義川委員曾問到那個紅線到底在哪裡，文化部那時候的答案是還要跟大家開會，他沒辦法一個人去做這樣的決定。但很明顯的，昨天開始，他們就有一些碰觸紅線的舉動。我覺得這件事情很麻煩的原因，主委自己應該都知道，交流團太多了，陸委會不可能每個都跟在旁邊，當然你會請他簽一些你不能做什麼之類的。但在執法的量能上，陸委會本身就不是一個執法單位，所以現在麻煩的是，如果他自己說都有按照行程走，我們沒有跟著，我們就只能相信；又比如他們去中山女高那一次，臺灣媒體不能進去，因為怕妨礙校園安寧，而且隔天要段考，就變成在裡面做什麼，我們有時候沒辦法全程掌握，所以他們有沒有做陸委會所謂目的外之事情，不好認定！這是第一種。","第二種，假設他今天出來，不管在臺大，還是在清大，媒體上去堵麥，如果他有比較親近的媒體，那個媒體故意問什麼，他就直接按照樣板去回答，他說我沒有在做目的外的舉動，我就只是在受訪而已，這邊有一些灰色地帶，對於這個灰色地帶，相信陸委會不可能突然出現那麼多的執法量能，這也就是為什麼我覺得可能在一開始的時候，我們要先做一些風險的控管，是不是有些個案一開始就乾脆不要允許，然後在我們能夠看得到的量能下，讓他們過來，但是要限制他所做的行為。不知道這個未來的規劃會是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：非常感謝委員剛剛的寶貴建議，像那個重要的交流點，比如到中山女中，因為他們來是大學交流，怎麼會到高中交流呢？後來還有一些很不堪的說法，讓中山女中的師生都很憤怒，我們也同感憤怒，不應該如此！對於那一場，我們陸委會也有會同教育部的人到現場去訪視。我同意委員所說的，你的能量沒辦法每個節點都去訪視，所以這種情況也在其他校園引發不同的意見，引發社會的對立，這些都是我們所不樂見的。所以，委員說得很好，未來我們在審查各種交流案件時，我們希望每個交流的案子都對臺灣有所助益，對兩岸關係有所助益；也要排除委員剛剛所說有統戰滲透的，就要透過我們的規範，讓它是正常、健康、有序；他們當然會透過交流來做統戰，我們就要把他統戰的各種誘因、各種結構去除掉，這是我們要努力的。所以這個個案，對於我們未來在處理交流事項，也提供很多寶貴的經驗，包括這次的成員都是共青團或預備黨員、黨員，就是來做特定的交流。我們認為年輕人的交流很重要，但還是要在自主、很自然、很自由、很自在的氣氛下交流，才是真正的交流，而不是在特定的行程，在媒體燈光下做政治宣傳，這個都不是太正常的交流。"],["沈委員伯洋：感謝主委，這就回到我一開始提到的，因為中國會去利用交流做統戰，我們能夠做的事情，並不是把交流全部砍掉，我們要做的事情就是把他每次要利用的那個點給堵住，譬如這次交流的某一個部分要來做統戰，我們去把每一個都堵住，這樣我們就可以回歸到正常方式的交流。我記得剛剛洪委員還有前面的委員，他們會說：講幾句話又怎樣，譬如他們講中國臺北之類的，這也是意見表達的自由；但我自己個人的意見，其實也非常的清楚，如果俄羅斯現在在烏克蘭內部宣傳：烏克蘭就是俄羅斯的一部分，這個是俄羅斯在當地能夠享有的言論自由嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想陸團的人當然不能完全享有我們臺灣的言論自由，所以我們當然會用目前兩岸的許可辦法，或是他所承諾的這些聲明書來規管他，這是必然的。我們也會對違反我們既有規定的部分，進行必要的行政查處與處分。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為這個顯然都是紅線，他們連中華臺北都不肯講，中華臺北好歹是在洛桑協議的時候，我們硬撐著，然後用了這樣的一個名稱。用中國臺北的意思是，我連一中各表都不給你，我不給你中華臺北，我就只給你中國臺北，所以這是一個很強烈的政治宣示。如果北韓現在在南韓宣稱南韓是它的一部分，如果俄羅斯去宣稱烏克蘭是它的一部分，這個都會是作戰的一環，絕對不是什麼意見表達的自由。當然這就是兩手策略，相信陸委會對這兩手策略非常熟悉，他們一方面軍演讓你感受到威脅，一方面用運動員之類的軟性交流，讓你感受到好像有比較緩和，這種兩手策略是共產黨非常擅長的。所以，我當時在受訪的時候，為什麼會提到血洗臺灣、提到留島不留人，原因很簡單，因為那個是解放軍的宣稱，但在統戰的時候，他們不會講。所以，他們一方面講得那麼有威嚇性，另一方面又用很軟性的方式去表達，其實這就是我們需要特別去提防的事情。","最後，我還是要提一下，如果這樣的事情一再的發生，譬如馬英九基金會的這個邀請，三番兩次這樣違反的話，我記得今天應該有提到，是不是應該要限制它能夠再去邀訪的次數或時間之類的？不然的話，其違反等於沒有一個很確切的成本，對它來講，以後要實行幫助中國做統戰的成本會太低。這個部分剛剛在回答義川委員的時候有稍微提到，是不是能夠再說一次？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，如果有違規、違常的案例出來，我們會就個案的輕重緩急，對邀請單位、對陸團的相關個別人士，都有一些限制的規定，這屬於行政方面的處置；對於邀請單位，如果以這一團，當然我們會有一定的行政程序，也會邀所有主管機關一起來審認，確認它的那個規範，輕的部分當然是書面警示，如果是其他的部分，就不會讓這個邀請單位在一定期間內，比如六個月到五年繼續擔任。這個是我們的機制，當然要由聯審會共同來審認。"],["沈委員伯洋：就再設立一個標準。"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個是邀請單位的部分。至於陸籍人士講了不當的話，我們會依規定來註記，或者是一段期間註記他不許可入境；如果犯嫌嚴重的話，像過去在西門町，他用動作去妨礙人家正常的表意自由，已經違法了，我們就立即把他強制出境。所以有不同的作法。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員的質詢，謝謝邱主委。","接下來蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員不在。","鄭天財、鄭天財、鄭天財委員不在。","登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內，以書面答復，並副知本會。","討論事項所列審查大陸委員會暨所屬單位預算等相關預算提案，請於113年12月13日（星期五）中午12點送至內政委員會彙整，以利後續審查作業進行。本次會議到此結束，現在散會。","散會（13時35分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157819","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157819","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360aaf21f6b9ddcdb8e4a6acd55cc740f50b44eee46cb88a106286ec5ce099167b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"13:13:44 - 13:23:58","影片長度":"00:10:14","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:13:44+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:23:58+08:00","duration":614,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.87846875,"end":5.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.257843750000001,"end":10.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.40909375,"end":10.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.62846875,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.48721875,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.49909375,"end":31.367843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.75596875,"end":32.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.56596875,"end":39.400343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.88971875,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.268468750000004,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.828468750000006,"end":58.705343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.705343750000004,"end":58.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.88659375,"end":59.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.90346875,"end":60.797843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.970968750000004,"end":60.392843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.30409375000001,"end":62.282843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.73846875,"end":71.20971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.17159375,"end":72.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.96471875,"end":97.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.97346875000001,"end":120.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.23159375,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.84721875000001,"end":133.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.78221875,"end":133.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.37284375000002,"end":142.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.52409375000002,"end":138.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.46034375000002,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.01284375,"end":143.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.79284375,"end":155.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.38346875000002,"end":147.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.02784375000002,"end":155.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.19659375,"end":161.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.47409375,"end":161.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.49096875,"end":193.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.36409375000002,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.41034375,"end":166.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.44784375,"end":168.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.60784375,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.63784375,"end":195.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.64596875,"end":213.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.09159375000002,"end":207.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.32659375,"end":216.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.33471875,"end":236.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.16909375,"end":231.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.14596875,"end":236.28096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.28096875000003,"end":237.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.38221875000002,"end":253.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.55284375000002,"end":253.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.59471875000003,"end":265.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.27221875000004,"end":270.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.67221875,"end":273.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.24534375,"end":275.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.27909375,"end":275.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.32971875000004,"end":279.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.46471875000003,"end":280.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.13909375000003,"end":280.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.27409375,"end":280.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.52721875000003,"end":280.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.89846875,"end":284.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.93221875,"end":282.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.96534375000005,"end":285.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.38721875000005,"end":287.53034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.43784375,"end":286.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.75409375000004,"end":287.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.00284375,"end":319.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.12909375000004,"end":322.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.09909375,"end":322.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.65971875,"end":331.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.19846875,"end":342.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.57659375000003,"end":347.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.92596875000004,"end":347.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.07784375,"end":361.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.76846875,"end":357.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.13534375,"end":374.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.74034375,"end":379.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.44409375000004,"end":388.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.03784375000004,"end":394.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.36596875000004,"end":402.11159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.11159375000005,"end":402.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.44909375000003,"end":402.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.97221875,"end":411.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.09846875000005,"end":405.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.14784375000005,"end":431.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.18159375000005,"end":413.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.38096875,"end":433.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.39784375000005,"end":433.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.88721875000005,"end":434.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.03471875,"end":436.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.77284375000005,"end":443.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.80659375000005,"end":437.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.33284375000005,"end":452.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.38346875,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.81721875000005,"end":451.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.75346875,"end":471.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.73096875000005,"end":463.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":463.92471875,"end":464.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.23159375000006,"end":474.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.02471875000003,"end":503.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":503.02409375,"end":528.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.29409375000006,"end":504.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.60596875000005,"end":505.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.23034375000003,"end":507.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.60659375,"end":528.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.9609687500001,"end":535.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.76596875,"end":535.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.50846875,"end":535.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.52534375,"end":535.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.64346875,"end":538.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.81221875,"end":553.6997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.4422187499999,"end":554.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.9653437500001,"end":556.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.85534375,"end":563.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.02721875,"end":573.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.8872187500001,"end":569.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.86534375,"end":581.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.59409375,"end":585.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":584.15909375,"end":585.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":586.28534375,"end":602.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.7747187500001,"end":586.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.85909375,"end":587.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.2553437500001,"end":589.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.3584687499999,"end":607.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.2734687500001,"end":612.7790937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.848,"end":27.682,"text":"主委好好 主委好台灣的民主包容可貴啦其實就在於多元意見的表達多元意見的表達就是你不認同我的話但是我不一定認同你的想法你的話可是我是指捍衛你說話的權益對不對那一樣的道理我想先請教一下賴清德總統從過去到現在你認為他的骨子裡面"},{"start":28.547,"end":52.805,"text":"他自己也說過嘛,他就是務實了台獨工作者嘛,對不對那賴清德總統2014年他擔任台南市長的時候他也前往過中國大陸做交流,他那時候去上海那時候台南市政府也提了相關的出國報告也講是說兩岸交流尊重且自信的交流穩健良性的交流讓兩岸聽見更多元不同的聲音"},{"start":54.526,"end":69.679,"text":"賴清德總統有因為去了一趟中國大陸之後回來之後他改變他的台獨思想嗎?就你的理解跟委員報告520之後我們賴總統重申暫穩中華民國憲政體制不卑不亢維持現狀"},{"start":72.236,"end":73.638,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":91.34,"end":118.512,"text":"我今天會以一個比較包容多元的方向來看尤其是在這一次這個陸生團來台灣本來我們看到是說第一時間陸委會副主委沈有忠副主委表示說由活動內容項目來講沒有太多的國家安全疑慮啊因為畢竟我們看到是這一次這陸生團他們就是做學術交流有參訪有看101有看淡水有去這個互委砲台"},{"start":119.392,"end":121.354,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":146.837,"end":148.259,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":165.177,"end":168.118,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":193.746,"end":196.308,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":221.306,"end":223.387,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":245.72,"end":249.702,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":275.525,"end":279.747,"text":"主委,我覺得社會在對立或說社會沒有對立,我某種程度上是你們的敏感神經在作祟。因為就我的理解跟認知,中國大陸的學生如果說他從小到大他可能被灌輸的教育觀念是這個樣子,"},{"start":303.176,"end":303.857,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":323.717,"end":341.63,"text":"如果說今天我們要辦任何的一個正常的交流活動我們要求的是別人來到我們這塊土地上面沒有做侮辱性或者是這個攻擊性的言辭但是他一定要講什麼不可的話那我覺得某種程度上我們也算是一種思想審查"},{"start":342.671,"end":358.871,"text":"主委你會不會覺得我們有必要把自己限縮到這種程度嗎我想已經違反了對等尊嚴的不當說法引起臺灣社會的激烈反應我想我們行政部我真的說實在話你是部委會主委"},{"start":361.875,"end":378.67,"text":"所以說對於我們來講因為其實本期還有看到另外一個議題所以你今天一開始的時候也有新聞講說解除淨團令那陸委會說持續的評估跟推動但實際上我看內文來講好像其實也沒有任何實質的進展"},{"start":380.529,"end":381.31,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":399.189,"end":400.591,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":413.171,"end":428.395,"text":"其實我們是在警示是在6月27號提出來的那多少倍就是說我們現在從1月到10月賦入的是230萬人次"},{"start":433.447,"end":443.336,"text":"主委對業務沒有到很熟齁昨天你們提出來這所謂的專線的時候你們新聞裡面才講增加了五倍"},{"start":444.666,"end":447.247,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":472.058,"end":498.376,"text":"因為我們還是有一些被監察、被拘禁、然後刑方不明或是不能讓他或促進管制的這些案例還有所以還是有一些風險所以我們持續的去觀察他個人付入是不是安全如果還是有疑慮的話我們還是要提出各種的警示還有各種的風險提醒所以看起來你不是一個量化指標你是個案的一個評估"},{"start":498.996,"end":499.637,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":518.717,"end":519.398,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":535.535,"end":538.356,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":554.525,"end":568.634,"text":"所以看起來 我說實在話啦大家都期待兩岸能夠正常穩定的交流都能夠有更多元的對話讓兩岸能夠更了解金孟程度上可能會降低這個戰爭風險跟惡意的螺旋"},{"start":569.935,"end":585.576,"text":"但如果說連我們主旗幟者的大陸委員會都沒有用這種比較客觀明確的一個指標的話我真的很擔憂整個賴清德政府是不是都一味的用更加惡意的方向來持續增加對應沒有我們是為了國人的安全"},{"start":586.777,"end":590.979,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":3118,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時13分）主席，麻煩請邱垂正主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。臺灣的民主包容可貴其實就在於多元意見的表達，多元意見表達就是我不一定認同你的想法、你的話，可是我誓死捍衛你說話的權益，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：那一樣的道理，我想先請教一下，賴清德總統從過去到現在，你認為他的骨子裡面，他自己也說過嘛，他就是務實的臺獨工作者，對不對？賴清德總統2014年他擔任臺南市長的時候，他也前往過中國大陸做交流，他那時候去上海，那時候臺南市政府也提了相關的出國報告，也講說兩岸交流是尊重且自信的交流、穩健良性的交流，讓兩岸聽見更多元不同的聲音。賴清德總統有因為去了一趟中國大陸回來之後而改變他的臺獨思想嗎？就你的理解。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，520之後賴總統重申站穩中華民國憲政體制，不卑不亢，維持現狀。"],["洪委員孟楷：我問的問題跟你回答的答案是完全不一致的，我問的是2014年賴總統當時是臺南市長，他有因為去了一趟中國大陸之後，然後改變他的臺獨思想嗎？好像也沒有嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個我很難替他回答。"],["洪委員孟楷：但外人大家都知道，其實我今天會以一個比較包容多元的方向來看，尤其是在這一次陸生團來臺灣，本來我們看到第一時間陸委會沈有忠副主委表示由活動內容項目來講沒有太多的國家安全疑慮，畢竟我們看到這次陸生團就是做學術交流，有參訪，有看101，有看淡水，有去滬尾礮臺，有去打棒球，也都很好啊！但是因為他脫口而出講了一個用詞，而讓我們覺得現在是有疑慮的，所以你今天早上有講說要做進一步的行政方面的處分。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。跟委員報告，我們協助這個團，包括協助他……"],["洪委員孟楷：日前我們有沒有要求他絕對不能講什麼話？或是思想審查？我們告訴陸生說來之後絕對不能講到什麼詞，不然就是踩到我們的紅線，有沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為他也有聲明切結啦，針對相關的……"],["洪委員孟楷：對啦，主委，我們很實在講，我覺得就事論事很持平……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們相關的許可辦法也有規定。"],["洪委員孟楷：我沒有說我認同他的話喔，我們是中華民國，我是臺灣人，但是他今天要來講任何的話語都是他的意見表達，那他今天講的任何意見表達，我們居然會因為他的一句話之後，第一，有一些獨派團體開始如影隨形的去做抗議，我覺得這某種程度上也對於整個陸生團、學生團來講，好像會有一點點太製造衝突的一個情況嘛。再者是說，我們民主臺灣2,350萬人有可能因為聽到一句、一個詞，然後我們就突然覺得我們不是中華民國了、我們被統戰了？我覺得也不至於嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：臺灣是有自信的一個地方，我們也認為我們的球隊出去打比賽，是中華民國代表隊，任何人都搶不走我們的榮耀，任何人都搶不走陳傑憲的MVP，因為他就是我們共同的驕傲啊！不容許任何人去拿一個詞之後……"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是來臺交流不應該傷害臺灣人民的情感……"],["洪委員孟楷：好啦，拉回來，我現在問我們當時有沒有要求他什麼東西絕對不能講？"],["邱主任委員垂正：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼？什麼用詞不能講？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們要求他跟活動無關的政治性的談話跟宣傳不要講，特別是引發了不同立場的對立，如果傷害了臺灣人民情感，那這個部分就不是我們初衷要推動的交流。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，很實在話來講，這個是他們的意見表達，這是多元民主的聲音，再者，如果真照你這樣講的話，我實在也要說喔，媒體要不要也要有一些……因為看起來他的那些畫面也都是媒體的訪問，您懂我意思嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，是這樣，我們推動一個交流……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有錯，推動一個交流，但是重點是我們看到……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們不要引起那麼多的副作用，社會對立增加，這個是我們不樂見的。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我覺得社會在對立或是說社會沒有對立，某種程度上是你們的敏感神經在作祟，因為就我的理解跟認知，中國大陸的學生如果從小到大可能被灌輸的教育觀念是這個樣子，如果他今天講出另外的話，我們可能才會覺得好奇，才會覺得奇怪。今天是他的立場，你沒有辦法用你自己的意識、你自己的言論、你自己的觀念、你自己的價值，去強輸他一定要講你的話。"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為是基金會安排去做聯訪而提出這個話……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，你先把本席的問題聽完，如果今天我們要辦任何一個正常的交流活動，我們要求的是別人來到我們這塊土地上面，沒有做污辱性或者是攻擊性的言詞，但是他一定要講什麼不可的話，那我覺得某種程度上，我們也算是一種思想審查，主委，你會不會覺得我們有必要把自己限縮到這種程度嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想已經違反了對等尊嚴的不當說法，引起臺灣社會的激烈反應，我們行政部門……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，我真的說實在話啦……"],["邱主任委員垂正：還是要依照相關法規來處理。"],["洪委員孟楷：你是陸委會主委，其實本席還有看到另外一個議題，今天一開始的時候，有新聞提到解除禁團令，陸委會說會持續的評估跟推動；但實際上看了內文之後，好像也沒有任何實質的進展，所以我可不可以請教一下，如果你說對解除禁團令有持續的評估跟推動，有什麼指標是你認為……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，這個指標很重要，我們現在唯一重視的是國人赴陸旅遊的安全，我們現在看到還是有很多個案報來……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在我們國人赴陸的人數增長了多少倍？從陸委會提出這個警訊、警告之後，到現在成長了多少倍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們的警示是在6月27日提出來的……"],["洪委員孟楷：多少倍？"],["邱主任委員垂正：1月到10月我們赴陸的有230萬人次。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委對業務沒有到很熟，因為昨天你們提出所謂的這個專線的時候，你們在新聞裡面講增加了5倍，換言之……"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果是那個專線的話，我們是比去年增加了14倍，港澳部分是5倍。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒錯，所以我現在講，即便是你們提出來，國人在這個部分還是有持續成長的一個狀況。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，赴陸港澳還是有成長。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我現在講的是這個禁團令的部分，你們現在評估的具體指標及一些具體條件是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為我們還是有一些被盤查、被拘禁，然後行方不明，或是出境管制的這些案例還有，所以還是有一些風險，我們會持續觀察國人赴陸是不是安全，如果還是有疑慮的話，我們還是要提出各種的警示，還有各種的風險提醒。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以看起來，你不是做一個量化指標，你是個案的評估？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們也在看手邊的案子多不多。"],["洪委員孟楷：多是多少？少又是多少？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果還是很多被盤查、被拘禁……"],["洪委員孟楷：說實在，主委這樣講都非常抽象，因為對我們來說，一個地方旅遊警訊的高、低，你要解除與否，其實是可以很客觀的判斷。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：譬如說，到什麼程度以下，還是怎麼樣；但我現在要問的是，很多人今天早上看到這樣的新聞標題─你持續推動跟評估，大家會有期待，但是點進內文裡面，完全不是這麼一回事，因為你們沒有任何一個客觀的數字，這樣還是會陷入一個惡意的螺旋。"],["邱主任委員垂正：有，我們還是有一些案例，比如今天有三位道親被對方拘捕，所以我們還是有些擔心，還是要持續宣導，也會持續評估。我們會把相關的這個機制再跟委員報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：我說實在話，大家都期待兩岸能夠正常、穩定的交流，能夠有更多元的對話，讓兩岸能夠更了解，其實在某種程度上，可能會降低這個戰爭風險跟惡意的螺旋；但若連我們主其事的大陸委員會，都沒有用一種比較客觀明確的指標，我真的很擔憂，整個賴清德政府是不是都一味的用更加惡意的方向來持續增加對立？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，我們是為了國人的安全，大院的決議也要求我們維持國人的安全。"],["洪委員孟楷：大家都為了國人的安全，大家都為了2,350萬人的安全，大家都為了中華民國生存的安全，大家都為了臺灣這塊土地安全。但是除了這個以外，我們還是期待陸委會能夠扮演好你們應該扮演的角色。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席（黃委員建賓代）：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢，也謝謝邱主委。","接下來羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋、羅廷瑋委員不在。","張啓楷、張啓楷、張啓楷委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","林倩綺、林倩綺、林倩綺委員不在。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","現在請沈伯洋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157817","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157817","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360548852b60b7d59234a6acd55cc740f50b44eee46cb88a10619376995a466ca645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"13:03:50 - 13:13:35","影片長度":"00:09:45","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T13:03:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:13:35+08:00","duration":585,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":0.6722187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.3134687500000002,"end":3.4397187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.72659375,"end":4.654718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.46409375,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.695968750000002,"end":13.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.037218750000001,"end":30.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.13159375,"end":66.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.91159375,"end":35.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.45971875,"end":37.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.55221875000001,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.94159375000001,"end":86.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.07221875,"end":87.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.29159375,"end":95.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.47721875,"end":87.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.24034375000001,"end":91.59471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.65784375000001,"end":92.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.32409375,"end":108.52034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.62784375000001,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.24221875,"end":107.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.90846875000001,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.05534375,"end":119.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.35409375,"end":125.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.46721875,"end":126.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.29409375,"end":128.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.91409375,"end":131.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.87534375,"end":133.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.47846875000002,"end":134.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.84534375,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.40096875,"end":151.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.09221875,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.14221875,"end":167.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.82471875000002,"end":159.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.17346875,"end":172.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.74659375000002,"end":174.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.01659375,"end":174.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.65346875,"end":180.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":198.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.17471875,"end":188.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.56534375,"end":199.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.07159375,"end":200.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.20221875000001,"end":200.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.23596875,"end":204.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.38721875000002,"end":208.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.90596875,"end":206.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.28534375,"end":221.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.74096875,"end":208.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.82346875000002,"end":222.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.51096875000002,"end":226.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.37971875000002,"end":242.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.33909375000002,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.40221875,"end":244.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.33034375000003,"end":244.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.97971875000002,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.50596875000002,"end":261.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.02846875,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.99409375,"end":263.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.24721875,"end":269.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.55846875000003,"end":269.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.64284375,"end":270.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.65971875,"end":274.87409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.89534375,"end":349.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.00909375000003,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.32284375,"end":292.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.60096875000005,"end":368.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.59784375000004,"end":378.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.56284375,"end":377.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.59221875000003,"end":381.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.87846875,"end":381.92909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.96284375000005,"end":382.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.03034375000004,"end":435.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.08096875,"end":382.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.72159375,"end":387.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.73659375000005,"end":401.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.81346875,"end":420.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.37846875,"end":422.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.00534375,"end":434.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.57909375,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.88221875000005,"end":444.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.37971875000005,"end":442.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.00784375,"end":468.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.57284375,"end":448.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.19034375,"end":482.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.08721875000003,"end":477.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.04034375000003,"end":482.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.36909375000005,"end":490.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.14846875,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.80596875000003,"end":506.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.95346875,"end":497.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.30346875000004,"end":497.38784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.53096875000006,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.64034375000006,"end":501.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.28096875000006,"end":507.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.35659375000006,"end":512.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.86221875,"end":512.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.87909375,"end":513.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":513.2165937500001,"end":524.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.9540937500001,"end":519.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.0634687500001,"end":523.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.42159375,"end":556.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.92784375,"end":525.3328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.5303437499999,"end":532.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.58846875,"end":537.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.92034375,"end":546.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.59096875,"end":547.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.6240937499999,"end":553.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.01596875,"end":558.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.86784375,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.1415937500001,"end":561.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.36096875,"end":562.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.4578437499999,"end":566.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.45346875,"end":563.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3390937500001,"end":569.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.65096875,"end":569.8490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.1697187500001,"end":572.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.65471875,"end":572.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.75159375,"end":575.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.18159375,"end":580.7165937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.851,"end":3.953,"text":"邀請邱主委預算討論"},{"start":14.339,"end":28.68,"text":"陸委會在這個114年的預算當中：法政的業務跟兩岸法政交流：政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1339萬1千元那你這個目的是要研議"},{"start":31.853,"end":46.232,"text":"兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制。所以本席要在這邊請教也就是說如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全"},{"start":46.833,"end":65.689,"text":"但是又沒有通知我們也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我們我國來進行通報那主委你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的一個權利呢請做說明"},{"start":66.65,"end":76.353,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財六、審查大陸委員會函送財七、審查大陸委員會函送財八、審查大陸委員會函送財九、審查大陸委員會函送財十、審查大陸委員會函送財十、審查大陸委員會函送財十、審查大陸委員會函送財十、審查大陸委員會函送財十、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":96.46,"end":108.186,"text":"我們過去就希望如果有協議正常被執行的話,他都能夠通報我們,但國安案件都沒有。我們現在如果要確保博恩的話,我們當然會希望透過既有的溝通聯繫機制。你有溝通嗎?請問,到目前為止就沒有,你有什麼親近方案,你有溝通嗎?"},{"start":119.392,"end":121.175,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":134.895,"end":150.477,"text":"我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性,他認為我們不答應他政治前提,他處於...你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切,我從早上聽到現在,但就是這個答案,所以本席具體建議邱主委"},{"start":152.279,"end":180.646,"text":"我認為我們兩岸交流剛剛你也回答了兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流你剛才也特別回答了那我覺得我們台灣這個國家呢中華民國是一個好的國家跟全世界各國都應該要做交流對不對?跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛對不對?是,楊委員所言甚至為何這個非常好所以本行要請教我們如果只有一位說對方怎麼樣我們還是得不到答案"},{"start":181.306,"end":182.187,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":199.187,"end":219.493,"text":"你的訊息有沒有?跟委員報告,我們現在還在密註當中。密註當中到底是有還是沒有?你有沒有掌控?有沒有?我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密註這個情形發生,也做應處。但是剛剛委員所說的是媒體的說法。哪一部分是媒體的說法?"},{"start":222.574,"end":223.795,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":242.415,"end":243.956,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":255.615,"end":275.287,"text":"我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素還有一些不確定的因素就你說的這個不確定的因素你認不認同說如果多交流多溝通可以延長誤判的可能性各位委員報告我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係你也是希望透過交流"},{"start":278.309,"end":279.189,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":293.374,"end":294.455,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":310.009,"end":324.425,"text":"在2020年的港版國安法以及2020年的維護國家安全的條例公佈之後那麼國人好像有一點點害怕好像有點害怕但是我們看到在2024年就今年"},{"start":324.906,"end":325.846,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":348.695,"end":350.736,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":368.709,"end":370.791,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":397.972,"end":398.793,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":414.535,"end":415.195,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":433.922,"end":434.602,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":457.389,"end":457.929,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":482.466,"end":484.187,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":508.406,"end":535.846,"text":"因為你目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的。你也回答了是本席是要告訴你你要怎麼樣去精進方案這個才是重點我們會持續的宣導人家又不願意那你又認為很危險那你又說很危險然後又沒有方案出來而且成效又沒有出來那這個邏輯太奇怪執行效能是不髒的"},{"start":536.827,"end":565.74,"text":"所以我還是給你一個方向你剛才告訴我你有很多的這個系統怎麼樣去防止你把那個說明資料給本席但是我最後還是要告訴你一句話也就是如果兩岸多交流兩岸多溝通是是我們也要努力這個方向你也願意這個方向但是希望是對等尊嚴健康有序的正常交流才不會有誤判的這個可能性這一點是重點你把你那個經濟方案多久給本席"},{"start":566.4,"end":567.54,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":3043,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（13時3分）謝謝，楊瓊瓔發言，請邱主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就預算來做討論，陸委會在114年的預算當中，法政業務跟兩岸法政交流政策規劃以及研擬推動是編列了1,339萬1,000元，這個目的是要研議因兩岸交流安全管理及衍生的問題來健全整個制度化處理的機制。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要在這邊請教，也就是說，如果是以國安事由限制國人的人身安全，但是又沒有通知我們，也就是說沒有依照海峽兩岸共同打擊犯罪以及司法互助協議的規定來向我國進行通報，請教主委，你有什麼精進的方案能夠保障海峽兩岸人民的權益呢？請做說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝楊委員指教。有關於國安事由的案件，過去在陸方包括在馬前總統執政的時候，他們也都沒有通報我方，要有刑事案件才會依照兩岸共同打擊犯罪及司法互助協議跟……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就你這一句，依照以往都沒有，現在你當主委，你有什麼精進方案？本席要聽的是這個，而不是你的批判，我要聽的是你的方法，請做說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們過去希望如果有協議正常被執行，他們都能夠通報我們，但國安案件就沒有，我們現在如果要確保國人，我們當然會希望透過既有的溝通聯繫機制……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有溝通嗎？請問到目前為止就是沒有，你有什麼精進方案？你有溝通嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們跟陸方的執法單位，我們也有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有溝通？第一個，有沒有溝通？第二個，溝通有沒有良？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們都會向對方反映。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼你希望的但是沒有，為什麼？是溝通不良？還是怎麼回事呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得是對岸在執法的態度沒有積極性，他們認為我們不答應他政治前提，所以處於一個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這你還是以政治前提來回答所有的一切，我從早上聽到現在就是這個答案。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席具體建議邱主委，我認為我們兩岸交流，剛剛你也回答了，兩岸交流不是什麼都不能交流，你剛剛也特別回答了，那我覺得我們臺灣這個國家、中華民國是一個好的國家，跟全世界各國都應該要做交流，跟全世界各國都應當有好的交流就要交流嘛，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，楊委員所言甚是，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個非常好，所以本席要請教，我們如果只有一味說對方怎麼樣，我們還是得不到答案，那我方有什麼精進方案？這是本席要聽的，你把你的精進方案書面資料提供給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我要請教的是，外媒有報導這個周末大陸地區要對臺做軍演，有沒有這回事？你的訊息有沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們現在還在密注當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：密注當中，到底是有還是沒有？你有沒有掌控？有沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們跟許多相關的國安部門都在密注這個情形發生，也做應處，但是剛剛委員所說的那是媒體的說法，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哪一部分是媒體的說法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：就是說已經會有一個固定的時間……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說是媒體的說法，換句話說，在你們跟相關單位國防部、國安局有掌控這個訊息，所以你剛才說外媒報導周末有這個事項，你認為是媒體的說法？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前是媒體的說法，我們還在持續關注當中，密注這個情勢的發展。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你密注這個情勢的發展，到目前還認為不至於成形，可以這麼解讀嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得還有一些非常不確定的因素，我們持續掌握。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有一些不確定的因素？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就你說的這個不確定的因素，你認不認同如果多交流、多溝通，可以防止誤判的可能性？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們也是希望透過交流來緩和兩岸關係。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也是希望，好一個希望透過交流。好，你希望透過交流來延緩、來緩和，這個非常好，我們是一個民主國家，本來多交流可以防止誤判情勢，以免擦槍走火，人民要的是一個安全。","好，你這個回答非常好，也就是希望透過多方的交流，所以本席再繼續跟你討論，在港澳蒙藏業務裡頭，你們聯繫服務費用編列114年是8,200萬5,000元，在這個情況之下，2020年「港版國安法」與2024年「維護國家安全條例」公布實施後，國人好像有一點點害怕，但是我們看到在2024年，就是今年1月到7月投資情況的成長，所以相對的也就是陸委會是否有去密切的評估相關的情勢對於臺港民間往來的影響，以強化保障在港以及赴港國人的安全？請說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員講因為中國大陸有國安條例、港版國安法，或是他們最近所訂的維護國家安全條例，對於我們赴港澳人身安全確實升高風險，所以我們一直也呼籲，赴陸港澳應該要仔細評估必要性，並向我們的動態登錄系統來登錄，以確保國人如果有需要，我們可以提供協助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你講的這個動態登錄，本席就直接跟你討論，因為中華民國是一個民主自由國家，你沒有辦法限制人民怎麼走，但是你要維護他的安全。對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因此你講到赴大陸跟港澳相關的就是那個簡訊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：簡訊也有，還有登錄系統。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是登錄，但是我告訴你成效，113年1月到7月的時候，國人赴港澳、赴陸的登錄比例各自是多少呢？是4.8%跟2.45%，換句話說，現在當然好像是高一點，但是都不及5%。你在整個預算776萬以這樣的成效，是人家不登錄？還是覺得沒有危險？還是也不知道你的政策？到底是怎麼回事？請作說明。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，雖然我們5%真的是不高，並且很偏低，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有5%，聽清楚，你只有2.45%及4.8%的登錄。"],["邱主任委員垂正：現在應該有5%。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是現在應該……"],["邱主任委員垂正：應該是政府各系統的登錄比例最高，但是我們還是要繼續鼓勵國人來登錄，畢竟赴陸港澳的風險確實比較高，所以我們也是呼籲國人登錄。我們為了要協助國人登錄以及協助我們國人來評估……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你這個邏輯有點奇怪，你一直說是危險的，但是預算給你，你的登錄比是4.8%跟2.45%，又不成比例，表示你的方案應該要怎麼去做精進啊？因為預算給了！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們一方面優化，二方面我們最近也通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線，也提供我們民眾……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：通過了很多風險評估的諮詢專線？哇！你這樣講更讓人覺得恐怖，讓人害怕。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不會，因為很多人詢問到底要怎麼登錄，我們來予以協助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，謝謝你的回答。"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果他會擔心現在赴陸港澳風險怎麼樣，我們都可以協助評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請聽本席的提問，因為目前為止你的登錄成效是還不夠的，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也回答了「是」，本席是要告訴你，你要怎麼樣去精進方案，這個才是重點。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們會持續的宣導。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：預算花下去，人家又不願意，那你又認為很危險，然後又沒有方案出來……"],["邱主任委員垂正：有方案，我們也是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且成效又沒有出來，這個邏輯太奇怪，執行效能是不彰的。所以我還是給你一個方向，你剛才告訴我，你有很多的系統怎麼樣去防止，你把書面資料給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我最後還要再告訴你一句話，也就是如果兩岸多交流、兩岸多溝通……"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們也要努力這個方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也願意這個方向……"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是必須是要「對等尊嚴、健康有序」的正常交流。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，才不會有誤判的這個可能性，這點是重點，你多久可以給本席你的精進方案？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是的，我們應該很快……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很快是多快？是現在還是三天？"],["邱主任委員垂正：一個禮拜好嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，一個禮拜把你的精進方案給本席。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157815","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157815","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836061f4713ec82e2b6dca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1065010cf70e641b11b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳春城","委員發言時間":"12:55:29 - 13:00:33","影片長度":"00:05:04","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:55:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:00:33+08:00","duration":304,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.40596875,"end":5.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.13909375,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.113468750000003,"end":15.488468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.539093750000003,"end":47.820968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.377843750000004,"end":112.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.12721875000001,"end":122.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.84721875000001,"end":125.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.34034375,"end":131.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.82471875000002,"end":149.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.81346875,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.70721875,"end":208.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.23034375,"end":211.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.89659375000002,"end":233.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.54721875,"end":234.59346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.80846875,"end":276.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.93284375,"end":299.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.77159375,"end":283.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.09159375,"end":287.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.63534375,"end":290.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.83784375,"end":290.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.17409375,"end":301.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.40971875,"end":303.96659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.524,"end":5.345,"text":"有請黃部長部長辛苦了我今天要來謝謝你因為壯世代政策與產業發展促進法在本週一已經出了委員會是在立法上跨出一大步"},{"start":27.173,"end":47.453,"text":"那在這裡這個訴發部為壯士代開先鋒做了一個很好的示範在兩週前我們的資訊月有做了一個壯士代董資樂園用一種創新的方式讓過去都叫做"},{"start":48.482,"end":51.264,"text":"希望這個成功的經驗可以作為未來我們的參考。"},{"start":71.716,"end":98.981,"text":"那為什麼講這個壯世代統治樂園用創新模式在這裡其實在各方面包括從立法院多數的委員都對這個議題的認知肯定還有在民間大量的這個高齡解放運動支持的壯世代也風起雲湧包括我們的院長左奎在兩個禮拜之前行政運會之後"},{"start":100.521,"end":111.498,"text":"所發的新聞稿也是肯定要讓壯士來持續貢獻社會所以這一個速發部走在這一個潮流打先鋒因為"},{"start":114.298,"end":130.848,"text":"這個禮拜一這個在審議的過程當中還是遇到了現在執政黨的立委很多的主腦說不懂這個壯時代是什麼壯時代的定義是什麼反正提了很多"},{"start":131.869,"end":153.435,"text":"後來呢我覺得用CHAPTERGDP去問一下我覺得這個很好喔我覺得是不是數位發展部可以開發一下問證諮詢的立法問證諮詢提升我們的問證品質大家問的問題實在是太可笑了幼稚般的我念一下CHAPTERGDP你只要問一下"},{"start":154.855,"end":157.557,"text":"他提倡的不再是60歲事為人生的終點而是另外一個充滿可能的新起點"},{"start":173.189,"end":198.164,"text":"所以醫療進步人類說明延長這個年齡層依然由體力智慧而支援去追求目標探索興趣甚至重新投入事業貢獻社會狀態不僅是一個詞語更是一種價值觀的倡導他幫助我們重新看待年齡生命力和社會的角色為每個人提供積極的框架裝置的核心精神第一個是延續活躍的生活第二個是健康與自主這個其實他很多啦"},{"start":199.104,"end":210.749,"text":"他會創造回應我們的社會例如勞動力不足、輸入下降的問題讓中在發揮他們的潛力對整個社會這種雙贏的局面等等這種AI的智慧"},{"start":211.92,"end":213.381,"text":"來開發一下 這個可以節省我們國會 我們國家很多 不然大家花太多時間老是討論問題 問政品質不高好 下一頁"},{"start":235.848,"end":242.937,"text":"好所以呢我還是回到這裡就這一次的諮詢業因為用了壯士代的董茲樂園有規劃了展場跟AI有關那這一個跟這一個"},{"start":251.969,"end":275.049,"text":"是不是因為他可以提供裝飾在第三人生不僅是促進中年轉職的機會或者促進中生學習第三人生大學的推動或者是整個多元化的共同都有很多很肯定的幫助所以是不是可以請求這個訴發部是不是可以一個月之內就以上的四個面向能夠提出報告"},{"start":276.971,"end":277.571,"text":"好的,謝謝部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1099,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（12時55分）有請黃部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["吳委員春城：部長辛苦了。我今天要來謝謝你，因為壯世代政策與產業發展促進法已經在本週一出了委員會，在立法上跨出了一大步。數發部為壯世代開先鋒，做了很好的示範，在兩週前的資訊月，你們舉辦了壯世代懂資樂園，用一種創新的方式，將過去都叫作樂齡資訊這種很沉悶的說法，改變為壯世代懂資樂園，現場應該有數萬名的壯世代湧入，成為銀髮族大玩資訊月的一個創舉。希望這個成功的經驗可以作為我們未來的參考。","為什麼講壯世代懂資樂園用創新模式？其實在各方面，包括立法院多數的委員都對這個議題的認知肯定，還有民間大量的高齡解放運動支持著壯世代也風起雲湧；包括我們的院長──卓揆在兩個禮拜前的行政院會結束後所發布的新聞稿，也表示要讓壯世代持續貢獻社會。所以數發部在這一個潮流中打了先鋒。","但是在這個禮拜一的審議過程中，執政黨立委還是有很多的阻撓，他們說不懂壯世代是什麼，壯世代的定義又是什麼？反正就是提了很多。後來我用ChatGPT去詢問了一下，我覺得這個很好，數發部是不是可以開發一下立法問政諮詢，來提升我們的問政品質，因為大家問的幼稚班問題實在太可笑了。其實你只要問一下ChatGPT，壯世代到底想要做什麼，它的定義非常清楚。它說壯世代是指55歲到臥床前，這個概念直接挑戰了傳統對年齡的看法，尤其對退休以後的階段非常重要，它提倡60歲不再視為人生的終點，而是另外一個充滿可能的新起點，隨著醫療進步，人類壽命延長，這個年齡層依然有體力、智慧和資源去追求目標、探索興趣，甚至重新投入事業，貢獻社會。壯世代不僅是一個詞語，更是一種價值觀的倡導，它幫助我們重新看待年齡、生命力和社會角色，為每個人提供積極的框架。壯世代的核心精神，第一個是延續活躍的生活，第二個是健康與自主……其實它有很多，它會創造回應我們的社會，例如勞動力不足，生育率下降的問題，讓壯世代發揮他們的潛力，對整個社會達成一種雙贏的局面等等。這種AI的智慧已經是最基本的，而我們立委問政的品質，問的都是一些小學生的疑問跟問題，我在這裡建議數發部有沒有可能來開發一下，這可以節省我們國會、國家很多……不然大家花太多的時間，老是討論同樣的問題，問政品質不高。","這一次的資訊月特別設立壯世代懂資樂園，所規劃的展場都跟AI有關，因為它可以提供壯世代第三人生，不僅是促進中年轉職機會，或者促進終身學習、第三人生大學的推動或者是整個多元化的共融，都有很多很肯定的幫助，所以是不是可以請求數發部1個月之內就以上的四個面向提出報告？"],["黃部長彥男：可以，沒問題，特別謝謝委員對壯世代立法的努力，我也瞭解我們現在在所謂高齡化，未來國家怎麼樣讓壯世代能夠再投入工作跟職場來幫助國家發展非常重要，所以委員剛剛講的這個四個面向我們再跟委員做進一步的報告。"],["吳委員春城：好的，謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳春城委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157814","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157814","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083603d354e4d4e77c9b6ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a106720e17fc406f2b395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"12:45:34 - 12:55:16","影片長度":"00:09:42","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:45:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:55:16+08:00","duration":582,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.1359687500000004,"end":5.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.7009687499999995,"end":7.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.434718750000002,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.910343750000003,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.47534375,"end":21.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.49159375,"end":23.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.352218750000002,"end":36.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.24034375,"end":39.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.29471875,"end":42.336593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.336593750000006,"end":42.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.85971875,"end":52.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.929718750000006,"end":69.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.50534375000001,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.53471875000001,"end":72.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.59346875,"end":77.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.36471875000001,"end":78.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.08159375000001,"end":82.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.95471875000001,"end":89.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.83534375,"end":91.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.52284375,"end":96.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.82596875,"end":99.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.88034375000001,"end":101.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.54659375,"end":103.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.20471875000001,"end":114.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.00846875,"end":119.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.46784375000001,"end":122.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.66159375000001,"end":128.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.54659375,"end":130.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.49159375000002,"end":141.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.20721875,"end":141.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.86534375000002,"end":144.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.61596875,"end":144.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.07159375,"end":158.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.89221875,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.02284375000002,"end":192.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.86159375000003,"end":192.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.89534375000002,"end":192.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.96284375000002,"end":193.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.03034375000001,"end":197.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.48534375,"end":197.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.97471875000002,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.02534375000002,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.83534375000002,"end":199.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.05471875,"end":200.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.20659375000002,"end":199.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.04596875000001,"end":213.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.87284375000002,"end":202.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.47909375,"end":211.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.63909375,"end":213.95534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.66846875000002,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.85346875000002,"end":226.15596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.36346875,"end":221.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.70034375,"end":228.26534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.72096875000003,"end":229.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.78846875000002,"end":234.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.27721875,"end":234.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.07034375,"end":234.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.96471875,"end":245.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.26659375000003,"end":247.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.12721875000003,"end":249.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.32096875000002,"end":257.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.83471875000004,"end":259.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.97784375000003,"end":261.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.16721875,"end":288.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.95909375,"end":271.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.14471875000004,"end":271.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.74534375,"end":289.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":290.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.71971875,"end":291.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.53784375000004,"end":300.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.82784375,"end":302.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.78534375000004,"end":326.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.21409375,"end":313.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.27096875,"end":331.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.57409375000003,"end":339.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.79221875,"end":355.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.18846875,"end":343.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.58721875000003,"end":355.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":355.85721875,"end":367.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.33659375,"end":366.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.19721875000005,"end":367.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.21409375,"end":367.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.24784375,"end":372.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.87159375000005,"end":381.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.69284375,"end":398.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.08284375000005,"end":397.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.89284375000005,"end":398.77034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.22596875000005,"end":401.26784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.25971875000005,"end":400.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.71096875,"end":403.37721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.20846875,"end":404.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.37284375,"end":406.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.22909375,"end":407.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.95471875000004,"end":417.46784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.37221875,"end":408.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.26534375,"end":419.67846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.98659375000005,"end":433.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.45471875000004,"end":421.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.12096875000003,"end":423.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.58346875,"end":436.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.65471875000003,"end":455.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.34159375,"end":442.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.47471875,"end":458.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.82409375000003,"end":467.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.03784375000004,"end":474.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.74159375000005,"end":486.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.40221875000003,"end":510.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.15534375000004,"end":500.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.21284375000005,"end":548.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.8172187499999,"end":531.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.16034375,"end":550.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.39221875,"end":551.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.7422187500001,"end":565.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":565.69784375,"end":566.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.74846875,"end":566.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.6047187500001,"end":567.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.6003437500001,"end":581.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.38784375,"end":579.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.9740937500001,"end":580.1428437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.571,"end":20.84,"text":"來麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來黃部長請來黃部長道高一尺摩真的可以高一丈嗎"},{"start":22.537,"end":38.992,"text":"我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台"},{"start":43.095,"end":51.79,"text":"去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙"},{"start":53.991,"end":55.672,"text":"從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來"},{"start":81.132,"end":98.42,"text":"新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊"},{"start":100.129,"end":114.352,"text":"就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府都過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費"},{"start":129.628,"end":158.292,"text":"收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解"},{"start":158.592,"end":187.858,"text":"來﹗"},{"start":187.918,"end":200.189,"text":"我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少"},{"start":201.089,"end":202.07,"text":"所以現在到底有多少被詐騙?"},{"start":228.903,"end":245.831,"text":"二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打詐儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長"},{"start":250.35,"end":278.814,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":278.954,"end":290.903,"text":"以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙"},{"start":293.183,"end":298.625,"text":"主要是針對所謂的這個廣告平台上的這些詐騙那從廣告平台上的詐騙我們開始進行這個一些這個機制包括實名制以後我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上"},{"start":313.251,"end":317.093,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會及立法院第12屆第3會期交通委員會及立法院第4會期交通委員會及"},{"start":339.847,"end":366.196,"text":"市長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到之後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛"},{"start":367.316,"end":395.829,"text":"所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月所以之前我也一直很關心時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施"},{"start":396.109,"end":414.935,"text":"一月底以前臉書、IG、TREI他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社"},{"start":415.555,"end":435.396,"text":"他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外"},{"start":436.833,"end":458.485,"text":"當然就是說他若實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞"},{"start":459.898,"end":486.148,"text":"如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有一些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同的分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告"},{"start":486.708,"end":509.966,"text":"有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作的那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長"},{"start":510.686,"end":529.091,"text":"但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理"},{"start":530.971,"end":530.991,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":554.082,"end":566.771,"text":"對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意"},{"start":567.652,"end":581.41,"text":"好,麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1054,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時45分）麻煩主席請數位部黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：黃部長，道高一尺，魔真的可以高一丈嗎？數位部一年幾十億元預算，或是一開始的時候，連同前瞻計畫，你們有上百億元的預算，說實在的，真的是要人給人、要錢給錢，因為我們希望能夠真正做到防詐。本席會這樣問，是因為111政府簡訊平台，去年10月唐鳳部長說，明年1月，也就是2024年正式上線，設三關卡堵詐騙，那時候把111簡訊短碼當成救世主，說這個簡訊代碼一出來之後，政府之間的詐騙就不會再發生了，而且有三關卡阻詐騙，還要求公股行庫都加入協調、防詐。結果不到一年的時間耶！真的不到一年，今年1月開始正式上線，到現在10月多、11月，相關新聞就出來了嘛！破獲詐騙集團，政府的簡訊111有假，被詐團破解、2G發送。本席不知道這些機器是否精密，但是看起來，本席覺得他們就像土法煉鋼，這兩台不大的機器，就可以把政府花了那麼多錢，由那麼多數位科技人才的數發部所做出來的111簡訊破解，發送繳費假訊息。","再來，這是新聞台做的連線報導，它發送什麼樣的訊息？這也是剛剛幾位委員共同關心的，包括和政府相關的繳費、收費等等，因為他等於是假借政府的名義嘛！那時候大家看到111簡訊就覺得安心，可以放心點開來看，結果卻不是這麼回事。部長，本席給你機會、時間說明一下，到底是我們想得太天真？還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡？還是我們根本不了解現在的環境多麼兇險，以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫，結果不到一年就被破解。"],["黃部長彥男：關於111簡訊平台，我們那個系統並沒有被破解。他們是用假的基地站，假的基地站只對2G手機有效，但是現在2G手機非常少，只要是最近3、5年買的手機，大概都沒有辦法接收2G的訊號，所以如果民眾還有舊的手機，建議把2G的功能關掉就不會看到。因為2G是單方向驗證，3G以上都是雙向驗證，所以假的基地站不會收到訊息。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個新聞出來也快兩、三個禮拜了，對不對？現在到底有多少民眾因為接到這類的訊息被詐騙？"],["黃部長彥男：對。所以目前2G手機……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在的統計數是多少？有沒有統計相關數字？因為你說的理由，本席還是沒有辦法接受。一般的手機可以收到2G的訊號，它也可以使用簡訊發送。"],["黃部長彥男：不行，現在的手機……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在變成是用簡訊發送的方式，你們只是計算簡訊的費用。"],["黃部長彥男：你要連上基地站，它會做雙向認證，3G以上都是這樣，只要是現在新買的手機都沒有2G功能。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在到底有多少人被詐騙？知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：2G的手機目前還有在用的應該不多。我們沒有數字，2G手機應該……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有數字？看到現在這樣的狀況，你們還是沒有數字？好，本席再請教，不管是數發部推出的通報網，或者現在刑事警察局所謂的打詐儀表板，詐騙案還是大幅成長，尤其是去年和今年的數字相比，真的是大幅提升，那個數字甚至可以差到3倍、4倍。"],["黃部長彥男：那個是統計的方式不同……"],["洪委員孟楷：是統計的方式不同？但不管怎麼樣，那就代表兩個部分，一個就是過去的統計，是把頭埋在沙子裡面，假裝沒有這個數字，就以為沒有這個詐騙；如果你要說統計的數字不同，就代表現在比較還原真實的狀況，以前可能美化了這個數字，讓這個數字感覺比較有擦脂抹粉，現在沒有，所以我們現在才會看到一個月高達百億的詐騙！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們數發部負責的是防詐這部分，主要是針對廣告平台商的這些詐騙；從我們開始對廣告平台商的詐騙進行一些機制，包括實名制的實施之後，假廣告的詐騙的確下降了90%以上。因為詐騙有階段性，比如養套殺，如果在前端不要接觸到詐騙訊息，被養的就會減少，這個效果應該在未來幾個月會出現。也就是說，因為我們在前端做了防詐的工作，我們認為現在民眾接觸到詐騙，確實有減少，而且從數字上，我們看到減少；但是這整個金額的數目，目前看到的統計可能是3個月甚至6個月前……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，它絕對不是單一部會的議題，我同意這是很多部會的議題。"],["黃部長彥男：對，是很多部會的……"],["洪委員孟楷：因為這也是我們從過去到現在一直要求的，並不是要各部會互踢皮球，你踢我、我踢你，到時候要負責的就變成是員警的責任，也不是嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：當然不是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以，我們要從源頭管理，源頭阻止、源頭把關，來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高，高到讓他認為根本就不划算，他就不會想要來詐騙，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以我們看到源頭這邊也在減少，應該在未來幾個月……"],["洪委員孟楷：時間也有限，但我之前一直也很關心，即所謂的六大平台，你們在廣告實名制的部分，到底現在的進度如何？"],["黃部長彥男：Google跟LINE已經從這個月開始落實廣告實名制，Facebook從現在開始實施，從高風險……他已經答應我們在1月底以前會全面實施。"],["洪委員孟楷：1月底以前，臉書、IG、Threads他們是整個母公司……"],["黃部長彥男：他們會全部的……"],["洪委員孟楷：1月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制，所以我們到時候看到的，不管是假冒某某某名人，假冒什麼投資社，下面一定都會是實名制？"],["黃部長彥男：一定確實是本人？"],["洪委員孟楷：一定會有一個帳號投入？如果說是詐騙，也可以循線，順藤摸瓜找到後面刊登廣告的用戶。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：到時我們有任何的詐騙罰則，也都可以來處罰？"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是這一個人，他有可能是國內，還是國外？"],["黃部長彥男：當然他要落實實名制的時候，就必須確認這是本人的ID，投放廣告當然可以在國外，但至少可以再回溯到這個真正的戶主；如果是國外的話，當然就要藉由這個國際的戶主……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我覺得這樣子還是會有漏洞。如果他現在是用國外的帳號，就像之前我們一直講，為什麼詐騙的機房放在東南亞？就是因為他們可能在東南亞有些機房，然後打電話來臺灣進行詐騙，再由臺灣的車手取錢，等於是犯罪集團有不同分工。如果今天這樣的實名制，他會不會也把機房放在東南亞其他國家，再來這裡投放廣告？"],["黃部長彥男：有一些像投資金融的廣告，就得要國內的人才能夠下廣告，這是Facebook跟我們合作的；因為現在金融詐騙在投資上面大概占了80%，那是最大源頭，先把這個堵住；至於其他詐騙廣告，我們經過國際刑警的互助，將來也希望在這邊能夠很快去杜絕。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來增加犯罪成本、減輕犯罪的樣態跟狀況，就請你好好的溝通。如果金融廣告一定要在國內才有辦法投放的話，其他相關詐騙廣告也應該比照辦理，把樣態拉出來。其實我們追根究柢，它也會一直進化，沒有錯，但只要進化案件夠多，你就可以收納，你就可以再要求。我覺得重點在於這些大公司，我相信以他們現在的一個數據來講，其實他們一定都了解，只是有錢賺嘛，又沒有人管，就不賺白不賺！可是對我們來講，主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴它，即便是有錢賺，你也不能賺，因為這個就是非法的錢，這個就是詐騙集團的錢，這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢。是吧？"],["黃部長彥男：完全同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛講1月底的時候這幾個平台會有相關實名制的一個規劃，書面資料是不是可以給本席？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請吳春城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157813","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157813","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836022a659cd84e0de06ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1063fd1aa64397e0cb55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"12:36:33 - 12:45:21","影片長度":"00:08:48","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:36:33+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:45:21+08:00","duration":528,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.665968750000001,"end":16.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.49596875,"end":21.512843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21.512843750000002,"end":21.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.63096875,"end":21.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":21.64784375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.57596875,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.34534375,"end":76.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.31846875000001,"end":77.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.02721875,"end":82.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.61721875,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.23721875000001,"end":84.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.95784375000001,"end":92.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.23159375,"end":94.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":94.44659375,"end":96.67409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.67409375000001,"end":100.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.89284375000001,"end":108.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.28409375000001,"end":118.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.54096875,"end":111.86159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.52284375,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.03659375000001,"end":126.99846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.60596875,"end":130.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.54221875000002,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.69409375,"end":136.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.71096875,"end":130.96409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.16596875000002,"end":139.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.22034375,"end":147.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":146.25284375,"end":150.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.40409375000002,"end":171.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.76784375,"end":173.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.97846875000002,"end":185.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.03159375,"end":185.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.50409375,"end":185.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.65596875,"end":189.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.88784375,"end":189.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.29659375,"end":200.96159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.36659375000002,"end":204.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.90221875,"end":228.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.97409375,"end":231.30284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.80909375000002,"end":242.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":240.58409375000002,"end":240.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":242.28846875000002,"end":243.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.06471875000003,"end":249.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.02596875,"end":248.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.24534375000002,"end":248.61659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.63346875000002,"end":250.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.50659375,"end":291.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":252.41346875000002,"end":254.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.12034375,"end":293.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":293.30159375,"end":299.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.03909375,"end":302.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.08909375,"end":315.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.98159375,"end":317.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.77034375,"end":319.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":317.78721875,"end":317.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":317.95596875,"end":319.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":319.49159375,"end":327.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.38471875000005,"end":333.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.41346875000005,"end":393.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":394.24784375,"end":402.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":403.09034375000005,"end":411.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.40534375000004,"end":420.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.12971875000005,"end":430.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.38159375000004,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.24221875,"end":430.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":431.71034375000005,"end":432.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.03096875,"end":432.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":433.73534375,"end":433.75221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.75221875000005,"end":437.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":435.23721875,"end":436.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.77284375000005,"end":436.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":436.82346875,"end":436.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.97534375000004,"end":437.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.02596875,"end":437.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.37596875,"end":446.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.26534375000006,"end":444.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.31596875,"end":444.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.23971875,"end":446.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.25659375000004,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.90596875000006,"end":449.42909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":449.42909375000005,"end":499.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":499.93596875000003,"end":505.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.18909375000004,"end":501.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.58909375,"end":507.19221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":506.90534375000004,"end":507.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.71534375000005,"end":526.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.21909375,"end":525.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":525.9740937500001,"end":526.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.7165937500001,"end":527.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.04,"end":15.188,"text":"謝謝主席 有請黃部長"},{"start":23.066,"end":45.78,"text":"謝謝部長我想數位信任很重要啦也希望全民可以信任數法部那我想我還是非常感謝我仔細閱讀了你們相關的這個過去一年所做的事跟相關的計畫在相關的資安跟技術上我覺得是有精進有不錯的成果先予以感謝那但是有幾個議題還是想要來就教一下想請教部長"},{"start":47.061,"end":66.56,"text":"在新的計畫書裡面呢你們有這個MOCN的預算是5.6億那低軌衛星是編了1.7億但是你們在第15頁的時候自己講了其實用所謂的傳統的這個5G的網路或者一般的電信基地台重大災難發生的時候可能會有部分的業者失效"},{"start":67.561,"end":76.134,"text":"全球現在都在佈建低軌衛星但是我們反而MOCN的預算竟然是它的將近三倍這個規劃您知道嗎?您同意嗎?"},{"start":77.312,"end":78.992,"text":"這個請司長在這邊做個說明謝偉文我看這技術是這樣子"},{"start":101.119,"end":117.9,"text":"現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的這個技術所以他需要一些資本支出所以這個6億我們需要重新建對但是現在全世界都在限低軌衛星啊結果你們現在是在補足多網路的跨網路我知道啊可是這個合不合邏輯啊部長有沒有理解過"},{"start":119.571,"end":134.791,"text":"我們看了各國都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統的網路就算你是多網路是對吧衛星只有Mega級的流量那你救災的時候你是要怎麼樣你要下載2G上傳2G嗎不是吧對吧"},{"start":136.573,"end":138.675,"text":"二、新增1億計畫．新增AI網絡主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫．"},{"start":163.594,"end":186.913,"text":"兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出用什麼技術誰還執行一億要弄出30位資安人才啦這個部長知不知道啊你能不能簡要的回答第一個這個因為深層AI用深層AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展那我們這個計畫是委託這個會做一套自己的系統嗎委託誰會外包嗎是資安院嗎"},{"start":190.396,"end":212.025,"text":"那就是資安院執行就不用開標案了然後訓練30位人才然後產出會產出一套自己的軟體嗎用的是什麼樣的AI用的是什麼樣的技術已經確定了嗎還是需要額外的報告我跟委員報告一下這個是委託由資安院來執行那我們會內部我們沒有在委外"},{"start":212.785,"end":213.365,"text":"謝謝,您可以在旁邊,部長。"},{"start":232.259,"end":249.754,"text":"書面上就是寫30位你不要現在來了突然變150然後到底是採用什麼技術講清楚這是一億的計畫好不好往後面所以能不能提出報告再提出來多久可以給細節一點的或者你們內部的計畫分享一下我們提報告給委員"},{"start":250.615,"end":269.09,"text":"人民的錢一週內可以吧因為這個預算你都編進去啊好不好好再來資安事件現在有非常多監理站詐騙也提醒所有的民眾連我們辦公室助理都收到而且是怎麼樣他剛被開完罰單結果就收到就收到監理站繳罰還的詐騙的信件"},{"start":272.632,"end":291.159,"text":"請問訴發部這邊有沒有收到監理站的這個結果上網一查一大堆人被騙11月10號就是11月一堆監理站各種方面而且都是那種剛收到交通罰單沒多久就收到這個繳費的詐騙的簡訊有沒有監理站或交通的單位有沒有跟你們通報"},{"start":292.179,"end":293.38,"text":"我們目前沒有收到通報吧?"},{"start":317.802,"end":332.45,"text":"目前沒有嘛對不對這個消息已經都在網路上了民眾都非常的恐慌可不可以麻煩一樣多久以內一周好不好這個詐騙快一點瞭解一下有或沒有就好然後我們來看一下說我們能幫什麼忙"},{"start":334.15,"end":352.336,"text":"一一一的短碼破功啦我想各位應該也知道這個消息了齁當然我知道短碼是一個好的做法但是有沒有解決方案結果呢我們看短碼有問題gov.tw可能也有問題這個到底我們在防詐上面應該要如何做我是希望齁應該要"},{"start":354.016,"end":368.651,"text":"更多的落實你們有很多跨部會的預算更多的落實合作資安打詐這一題我就之後有機會再交流因為時間很有限了資安人力短缺也麻煩注意一下剛剛呢這個中加兵委員有提到以新續職"},{"start":370.152,"end":392.887,"text":"這個方向我們也是覺得是從阿宅的角度來看也是認同所以希望這個部分呢也予以去了解那治安的人力的培育也要增加啦什麼11個啦30個啦150啦我覺得都是遠遠不夠其實你們預算是很充足的希望能夠補足治安人力增加流財的誘因最後我想請教部長一件事近期通查網"},{"start":394.324,"end":420.336,"text":"算是不小心提前下架了啦那雲端發票還有很多政府機關的數位的平台大家都有點擔心可能會有不被信任的問題所以我想訴發部應該要帶頭被信任而不是帶頭被不信任啦所以我想請教部長請教部長這個題很認真知通系統的外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核"},{"start":421.158,"end":422.699,"text":"連查核都是外包啊"},{"start":451.053,"end":473.112,"text":"事任性查核抱歉我在問的是事任性查核抱歉部長我跟您溝通一下這是你們資通安全管理法的私情細則資通安全管理法裡面就算你們內部請資安院來做或者你們內部來做都要有公務人員的事任性查核不能有不適任的人來做我們的資通系統這是第一點"},{"start":473.692,"end":499.104,"text":"第二點連外包廠商都應該要有適任性的查核這是你們的資通安全管理法我們目前認為而且資通系統的定義對不起講得非常清楚這是資通安全法第三條第一項用於資料的收集控制傳輸儲存流通刪除資訊或對資訊進行其他處理使用或分享系統等於幾乎所有的資訊系統在外包上都應該要做適任性查核請問部長"},{"start":500.28,"end":500.3,"text":"謝謝委員．"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1008,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（12時36分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，部長好。數位信任很重要，也希望全民可以信任數發部。本席非常感謝，也仔細閱讀你們過去一年所做的事和相關計畫，在相關的資安和技術上，本席覺得有精進，有不錯的成果，先予以感謝，但是有幾個議題還是想要就教一下。請教部長，在新的計畫書裡面，你們有編列MOCN的預算5.6億元，低軌衛星是編列1.7億元。但是你們在第15頁也寫了，其實用傳統的5G網路或者一般的電信基地台，重大災難發生的時候，可能會有部分業者失效。全球現在都在布建低軌衛星，但是我們的MOCN預算卻反而是將近它的三倍，您知道這個規劃案嗎？您同意嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：關於MOCN，我們剛才說到韌性，它需要多個solution。"],["葛委員如鈞：對呀！但是災難發生的時候，地面上的沒辦法用，尤其是傳統網路，但是衛星還在啊！當然，還是需要地面機站，但是你們花6億元布建傳統網路，這樣對嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分請司長說明。"],["鄭司長明宗：謝謝委員。MOCN這個技術是這樣的，現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的技術，所以它需要一些資本支出，這6億元是因為我們需要重新布建。"],["葛委員如鈞：對，但是現在全世界都在建低軌衛星啊！本席知道你們現在是在補足多網路或跨網路，可是這樣合不合邏輯？部長有沒有了解過？我們看了各國的狀況，都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統網路，就算是多網路也是一樣，對吧？"],["鄭司長明宗：委員，衛星只有Mega級的流量，那……"],["葛委員如鈞：救災的時候是怎麼樣？要下載2G、上傳2G嗎？不是吧！"],["鄭司長明宗：是。但是因為MOCN是要給民眾使用，所以這個……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有關係，謝謝。部長，希望您了解一下，好不好？這個實務上到底符不符合國際趨勢，麻煩了解一下。能不能回復本席？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們回去再做研究調查。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝。第二個，你們新增1億元的計畫，這是一個新項目，新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫，它只是一個研究計畫喔！請問這兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出？用什麼技術？誰來執行？1億元要培養出30位資安人才，部長知不知道這個計畫？你們能不能簡要回答？"],["黃部長彥男：第一個，因為用生成式AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展，我們這個計畫是委託……"],["葛委員如鈞：會做一套自己的系統嗎？委託誰？"],["黃部長彥男：資安院。"],["葛委員如鈞：會外包嗎？是資安院執行嘛！因為是資安院執行就不用開標案了，然後還會訓練30位人才？會產出一套自己的軟體嗎？使用什麼樣的AI？什麼樣的技術？已經確定了嗎？還是需要另外報告？"],["何院長全德：這個部分是委託資安院執行，會由我們內部執行，並沒有再委外。大概是從防禦的角度切入，包括AI的資安訓練、模型，還有人才的培育。人才培育不是只有30位，我們一年培養的高階人才大概是150位。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，您可以在旁邊協助回答。部長，書面上就是寫30位，現在又突然變150位。到底是採用什麼技術？請你們說清楚，因為這是1億元的計畫，好不好？能不能提出報告？多久可以提出詳細一點的報告？或者和我們分享你們內部的計畫，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們會提報告給委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：這是人民的錢。一週內可以吧？因為這個預算你們都編進去啦！好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["葛委員如鈞：再來是資安事件，現在有非常多監理站詐騙訊息，要特別提醒所有民眾，因為連我們辦公室的助理都有收到，而且他是剛被開完罰單，就收到監理站繳罰鍰的詐騙信件。請問數發部有沒有收到監理站詐騙案的訊息？因為我們上網一查，發現一大堆人被騙。11月的時候爆發監理站的詐騙案，各種方式的都有，而且都是剛收到交通罰單，沒多久就收到繳費詐騙簡訊，監理站或交通單位有沒有向你們通報？"],["黃部長彥男：如果是簡訊的話，我也要特別向民眾……"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，部長，本席怕你搞錯問題，本席的意思是有沒有資料洩漏？有沒有駭客入侵？例如去查誰最近被罰，趕快寄詐騙簡訊給他。有沒有相關的通報？數發部有沒有進行資安查核的協助？有還是沒有？"],["黃部長彥男：我們目前沒有收到通報。"],["葛委員如鈞：目前沒有嘛！對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：這個消息已經在網路上流傳，民眾都非常恐慌，可不可以麻煩你們，多久之內可以處理？一週，好不好？因為這是詐騙，所以你們的動作要快一點，先了解一下有或沒有就好，然後我們再看能幫什麼忙。再來，111的簡訊短碼破功，各位應該也知道這個消息了。當然，本席知道短碼是一個好的做法，但是有沒有解決方案？現在短碼有問題，gov.tw可能也有問題，我們在防詐方面到底應該如何做？本席希望要更加落實。你們有很多跨部會的預算，應該加強落實跨部會合作資安、打詐，這一題之後有機會再交流，因為時間很有限。","資安人力短缺的問題也麻煩注意一下，剛剛鍾佳濱委員有提到以薪續職這個方向，我們從阿宅的角度來看也是認同的，所以希望這個部分你們也要去了解。另外，資安人力的培育也要增加，11個、30個、150個，本席覺得遠遠不夠，其實你們的預算是很充足的，希望能夠補足資安人力，增加留才的誘因。","最後本席想請教部長一件事，近期通查網算是不小心提前下架了，對雲端發票和很多政府機關的數位平台，大家都有點擔心，可能會有不被信任的問題。數發部應該帶頭被信任，而不是帶頭被不信任，所以本席想請教部長，這一題是很認真的，資通系統外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核？"],["黃部長彥男：一定要啦！現在就是共同供應契約會做一些查核，是不是請……"],["葛委員如鈞：都有做嗎？這是法律喔！資通安全管理法。"],["林代理署長俊秀：目前通報查詢網是委託工研院，他們有外包給一家民間企業。"],["葛委員如鈞：連查核都是外包啊？"],["林代理署長俊秀：不是查核，我是說那個系統開發。"],["葛委員如鈞：抱歉，本席問的是適任性查核。抱歉，部長，本席和您溝通一下，這是你們資通安全管理法的施行細則，是資通安全管理法的規定，就算你們內部請資安院來做，或者由你們內部來做，都要做公務人員的適任性查核，不能由不適任的人來做我們的資通系統，這是第一點。","第二點，連外包廠商都應該要有適任性查核，這是資通安全管理法規定的，而且資通系統的定義寫的非常清楚，這是資通安全法第三條第一項，用於資料的蒐集、控制、傳輸、儲存、流通、刪除資訊或對資訊為其他處理、使用或分享之系統，等於幾乎所有資訊系統外包時都應該做適任性查核。請問部長，你們有沒有做？"],["黃部長彥男：據我的了解，是所謂的機敏系統要做查核。"],["主席：葛委員，時間差不多了。"],["葛委員如鈞：抱歉喔！這是你們的法條，如果需要修就去修，這不是單指機敏系統喔！請你們帶頭守法，落實適任性查核，關於這一點，本席希望內部也做個討論，我們雙方來交流，好嗎？謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員，謝謝部長和各位首長。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157812","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157812","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d3c6f6151ec00651ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a106ef9928609a2109b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:28:48 - 12:36:17","影片長度":"00:07:29","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:28:48+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:36:17+08:00","duration":449,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.14034375,"end":2.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.62034375,"end":9.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.379718750000002,"end":24.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.02284375,"end":69.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.74159375,"end":75.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.71534375,"end":79.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.90034375,"end":84.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.89971875,"end":88.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.14784375,"end":94.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.09221875,"end":97.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.95659375000001,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.05284375000001,"end":111.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.04721875000001,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.57034375,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.08471875000001,"end":115.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.35471875,"end":118.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.10096875,"end":128.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.09971875000001,"end":129.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.93909375,"end":130.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.85034375,"end":133.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.10721875000002,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.68846875,"end":143.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.89471875,"end":148.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.58221875,"end":144.91971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.65784375,"end":151.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.12971875000002,"end":151.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.65284375000002,"end":164.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.31096875,"end":153.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.65096875,"end":165.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.67596875,"end":165.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.70971875,"end":166.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.97971875000002,"end":167.59971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.70096875000002,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.51471875000001,"end":174.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.78846875000002,"end":186.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.25909375,"end":194.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.49846875,"end":195.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.20284375,"end":202.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":196.37159375000002,"end":197.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.83471875,"end":202.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.90221875,"end":207.62721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.82971875,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.68534375000002,"end":213.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.71909375,"end":213.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.73596875,"end":242.60909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.75284375,"end":214.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.03096875000003,"end":244.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.85784375000003,"end":244.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.53284375,"end":246.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.16971875000002,"end":246.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.72659375,"end":246.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.74346875,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.16534375,"end":250.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.43909375,"end":251.46846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.24471875,"end":263.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":260.88471875,"end":267.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.80409375,"end":264.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.52909375,"end":277.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.24909375000004,"end":279.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.62034375,"end":280.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.03784375000004,"end":280.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.20659375,"end":280.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.71284375,"end":284.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.00346875,"end":288.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.18846875,"end":288.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.23909375,"end":301.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.72846875,"end":289.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.50284375,"end":302.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":302.29596875000004,"end":309.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.98284375000003,"end":310.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.00784375,"end":341.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.98596875000004,"end":347.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.25534375,"end":346.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.94284375,"end":349.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.17034375000003,"end":351.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.87471875,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.16159375,"end":352.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.19534375,"end":352.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.22909375,"end":353.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":354.05159375,"end":372.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.14409375,"end":356.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.24534375,"end":356.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.63096875,"end":373.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.81221875,"end":373.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.96409375,"end":374.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.24659375000005,"end":375.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.26346875,"end":378.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.65534375000004,"end":381.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.30034375,"end":383.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.68409375000005,"end":386.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.13096875,"end":390.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.33346875,"end":386.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.88971875000004,"end":390.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.92346875000004,"end":407.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.85159375,"end":392.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.74784375,"end":409.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.03034375000004,"end":411.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.85284375000003,"end":413.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.60346875000005,"end":414.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.04221875,"end":416.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.53159375,"end":415.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.59034375000005,"end":417.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.40034375000005,"end":428.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.45471875000004,"end":420.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.62659375000004,"end":429.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.33534375000005,"end":431.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.64284375000005,"end":437.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.95409375,"end":438.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.79784375,"end":438.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.93284375,"end":441.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":442.64534375000005,"end":442.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.84784375000004,"end":446.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.87721875000005,"end":443.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.91096875000005,"end":443.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.92784375,"end":444.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.02909375,"end":444.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.99096875000004,"end":445.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.87659375000004,"end":448.48409375000006}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":2.215,"text":"主席楊瓊發言,邀請部長。請部長。好,委員好。"},{"start":9.434,"end":28.205,"text":"市長好,我們要討論出國的計畫編列,你在這個今年度是編列了2224000元,那你在113年現在呢是31336000元,所以相對你比今年度跟明年度呢你是明年度減了9132000元。"},{"start":30.726,"end":39.411,"text":"但是我們去細看這裏面到底是怎麼回事因為112年的出國計畫是1408萬6千元你的決算是1342萬9千元達成率是95.30%比原先編列的出席重要的你在這個裏面相關活動裏頭跟重要會議裏頭總共是23項但是你的執行結果有6項他沒有執行的在你總共23項的26.09%"},{"start":59.804,"end":75.725,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":76.125,"end":97.595,"text":"為什麼預算會這樣子編列還會這樣子執行呢請說說明報告委員這個我上任之後就特別對出貨預算做個通盤這個違反預算法欸立法院三讀通過的預算你竟然有的你不執行沒有的你可以去執行這個邏輯怎麼這麼奇怪啊這到底是什麼重要的事項啊"},{"start":98.015,"end":102.017,"text":"不執行表示你的預估是有問題的那你沒有編列的你有9項增加欸你可以隨便這樣增嗎?可以如此嗎?這個你有辦理追加嗎?要怎麼做?"},{"start":115.582,"end":120.985,"text":"議員有些計畫沒有執行的部份是因為原本有一些國際會議要去參與那我們的外交有問題囉還是人家不邀請我們還是我們自己不去參加"},{"start":133.232,"end":151.395,"text":"我們要去參加那只是說有些地區因為可能有些簽證的問題過不了就是臨時有問題所以就沒辦法做那你在編列預算當時我們還審預算那個騙立法委員喔跟委員報告對不對因為很多個國際活動他都會這個問題你們去精心那你沒有的竟然會增加9項怎麼回事呢"},{"start":151.755,"end":173.681,"text":"您現在怎麼處理?就是因為有些計畫在編列預算的時候因為1、2年在編列計畫的時候數位發展部訂定成立所以我們是參考以往的編列方式去編列哇 這個邏輯更奇怪注意聽部長你請回部長編列的預算沒有辦法執行沒有編的竟然可以去執行"},{"start":175.682,"end":195.481,"text":"我們政府的預算是經過立法院三讀通過送請行政院單位來執行之 對不對怎麼可以這樣子亂搞呢亂來還剛剛回答的是說依照前年度那你們都沒有在精進部長依你的看法可以如此嗎"},{"start":196.463,"end":202.411,"text":"可以這麼做嗎?內部檢討部長還好你來一個內部檢討不然我們覺得太驚訝了怎麼可以這是一個公務預算怎麼可以隨便你要怎麼做就怎麼做"},{"start":214.436,"end":225.143,"text":"當然不行當然不行你要好好地去檢討來本席請你把檢討的方案給本席那本席跟你討論的114年裡頭你的民主網絡的連結跟這個這個是從113年1月份1月5號核定那總經費是7.8億你分4年度但是我們看到113年你編列的3.39億呢你到8月份我給你做統計只有14.5"},{"start":243.075,"end":251.001,"text":"部長,這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?各位委員報告,那個有關於質詢率會比較慢的原因是因為整個專案是比較新,所以他有很多厲害的關係者在做協調。我們專案新不新,這不是邏輯。你請回。部長,我要請你再一次聽清楚。"},{"start":269.013,"end":286.085,"text":"這個預算是你們編出來的不是因為新他的年度到了只有完成率不到兩成你可以接受這樣的成效嗎部長你可以接受嗎請你告訴我當然不行所以要檢討趕快去經濟因為他是113年到116年以下的回答本席不希望聽到這種言語因為是新的你速發布是新的單位當然是新的政策新的計畫嘛"},{"start":297.532,"end":320.582,"text":"對不對怎麼可以如此的回答呢不負責任的回答好還好你說不行所以執行率到現在8月份14.5趕快去精進人民需要接下來再一個議題深化政府資通訊的應用建設裡頭本席覺得非常的奇怪預算給沒有問題但是你在測試的結果審計部113年4月20號給你的是說"},{"start":325.484,"end":348.957,"text":"你的發現你的連結網址失效的有118337筆但是你自己書發部說你失策的連結只有380筆哇那個差距部長差距多少45倍那我們政府經過公開資訊的可用性這麼低花了這麼多錢那到底誰在造假"},{"start":350.636,"end":351.317,"text":"審計部已經告訴你"},{"start":375.299,"end":377.821,"text":"一萬多筆。你們說380筆。差距45倍。李選惠部長這個要不要精進啊?你說的休息現在的時間科技資訊"},{"start":391.713,"end":411.002,"text":"對 這個這個失效這麼需要你把它關掉對不對失效的原因我們會再檢討不過剛剛講就是說你要維護期間關掉一些這個網站是大家都在做的事情那只是說這個數字到底現在還剩多少我們測完以後再跟委員做個報告到現在還不清楚審計部已經告訴你了審計部告訴你這一萬多筆因為你的落差45倍"},{"start":417.745,"end":445.92,"text":"請把正確的方案精進出來不要再粉飾太平審計單位已經告訴你了你還不精進對不對你要看怎麼樣方案不要讓人民這麼痛苦我們會再把最新的數字跟我們測試的結果再跟委員報告趕快去精進多久時間告訴本席你的精進方案我們在這一個禮拜以內就可以提出報告趕快加油"},{"start":447.896,"end":447.916,"text":"好,謝謝楊瓔"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":954,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時28分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。我們要討論出國計畫的預算編列，你們今年度編列2,220萬4,000元，113年是3,133萬6,000元，所以今年度和明年度相比，明年度是減列913萬2,000元，我們細看這裡面到底是怎麼回事。112年的出國計畫是1,408萬6,000元，決算是1,342萬9,000元，達成率是95.34%。和原先預定出席的重要會議相比，你們規劃的相關活動和重要會議總共23項，結果卻有6項沒有執行，占了26.09%。","最奇怪的是，原來的計畫不執行，未列預算的新增計畫卻有9項，這9項占了23項的40%預算，等於是四成。為什麼預算會這樣編列、執行呢？請說明。"],["黃部長彥男：我上任之後就特別對出國預算做通盤檢討。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個違反預算法耶！立法院三讀通過的預算，有編列的項目你們不執行，沒有編列的，你們卻可以執行，這個邏輯怎麼這麼奇怪？到底是什麼重要的事項？"],["黃部長彥男：不執行是因為很多活動有狀況，比如部長級會議，如果他們臨時沒有邀請部長……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不執行就表示你們的預估有問題。至於你們沒有編列的，其中有9項新增，你們可以隨便增加嗎？可以如此嗎？你們有辦理追加嗎？要怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：預算的部分，請國際司說明。"],["莊司長盈志：謝謝委員。第一個，有些計畫沒有執行，是因為原本有一些國際會議要參與，可是因為……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那是我們的外交有問題囉！"],["莊司長盈志：不是的，向委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是人家不邀請我們？還是我們自己不去參加？"],["莊司長盈志：我們要去參加。只是有些地區可能因為簽證的問題過不了，或是臨時有問題，所以沒有辦法出門。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你們當時編列這樣的預算給委員審查，是在騙立法委員嗎？"],["莊司長盈志：沒有。因為很多國際活動都會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個問題你們要去精進。但是你們沒有編列的，竟然增加9項，這是怎麼回事呢？這部分的預算怎麼處理？"],["莊司長盈志：因為112年在編列預算的時候，數位發展部是第一年成立，所以我們是參考以往的編列方式……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：哇！這個邏輯更奇怪。部長要注意聽，你請回。部長，你們編列的預算沒有辦法執行，沒有編列的竟然可以執行，政府的預算是經過立法院三讀通過，送請行政院各單位執行之，對不對？怎麼可以這樣亂搞呢？亂來！剛剛回答是依照前年度編列，顯然你們都沒有精進！部長，依你的看法，可以如此嗎？可以這麼做嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分我們內部會再好好檢討。不過我……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，還好你說要內部檢討，不然我們真的覺得太驚訝了，這是公務預算，你們怎麼可以想要怎麼做就怎麼做，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：當然不行。但是各……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然不行！你們要好好檢討，請你把檢討方案給本席。","本席要和你討論114年民主網絡之連結與創新工作計畫，這是113年1月5日核定，總經費7.8億元，分4個年度執行。但是你們113年編列3.39億元，到8月份只有執行14.5%。部長，這怎麼辦？"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分剛剛司長有說明，這是關於執行率，請司長再補充說明。"],["莊司長盈志：有關執行率比較慢的原因，是因為整個專案比較新，所以它有很多利害關係者在做協調……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼專案新不新，不是用這樣的邏輯，你請回。部長，本席要請你再次聽清楚，這個預算是你們編列的，不能以它是新的計畫為理由，執行年度快到期了，結果完成率不到兩成，你可以接受這樣的成效嗎？部長，你可以接受嗎？請你告訴本席。"],["黃部長彥男：當然不行。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然不行！"],["黃部長彥男：所以要檢討，檢討的時候……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，要檢討，要趕快去精進，因為它是113年到116年的計畫。"],["黃部長彥男：因為這個計畫……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：以下回答時，本席不希望聽到這樣的言語，因為這是新的。數發部是新的單位，當然是執行新的政策、新的計畫嘛！對不對？怎麼可以如此回答呢？這是不負責任的回答。"],["黃部長彥男：這個計畫裡面有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還好你說不行。因為到8月份的執行率只有14.5%，你們要趕快精進，這是人民需要的。"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分會趕上。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來是另一個議題「深化政府資通訊應用建設」，本席覺得非常奇怪，給預算當然沒有問題，但是測試的結果是什麼？審計部113年4月20日檢核，發現你們的連結網址失效的有1萬8,377筆，但是數發部說試測失效的連結只有380筆。哇！部長，這兩者差距多少？45倍！政府公開資訊的可用性這麼低，還花了這麼多錢，到底是誰在造假？380筆和一萬多筆，差距45倍。"],["莊司長明芬：關於之間的落差，其實我們每個禮拜都有在做檢測，有些機關剛好是週末在做一些系統維護，維護的時候他們就會關掉系統，乃至於有些連結失效。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：審計部已經告訴你們有一萬多筆失效，你們說是380筆，差距45倍，你請回。部長，這個部分要不要精進？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛司長有說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們說是因為週末休息，但是現在這個時代這麼需要科技資訊，竟然會把它關掉？"],["黃部長彥男：失效的原因，我們會再檢討。不過剛剛有說到，是因為維護期間關掉一些網站，這是大家都在做的事情。只是現在這個數字到底還剩多少？我們測完再向委員報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：到現在還不清楚？審計部已經告訴你們了。"],["黃部長彥男：因為這個測……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：審計部告訴你們有一萬多筆，和你們的落差是45倍，請精進正確的方案，不要再粉飾太平。"],["黃部長彥男：這個數目和……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：審計單位已經告訴你們，你們還不精進？你們要看使用什麼樣的方案改進，不要讓人民這麼痛苦。"],["黃部長彥男：好。因為這個檢測是4月24日做的，我們會再向委員報告最新的數字和測試結果。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：趕快去精進。多久可以告訴本席你們的精進方案？"],["莊司長明芬：我們一個禮拜以內就可以提出報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個禮拜，趕快加油！"],["主席：好，謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，謝謝部長，各位首長。","接下來請葛如鈞委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157811","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157811","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360ea94f77cfa30a9e3ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a10656400f31e14007595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:21:41 - 12:28:38","影片長度":"00:06:57","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:21:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:28:38+08:00","duration":417,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.6215937500000001,"end":13.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.10721875,"end":25.934093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.58784375,"end":40.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.408468750000004,"end":44.260343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.361593750000004,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.06971875,"end":49.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.85846875,"end":51.297218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.056593750000005,"end":58.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":54.351593750000006,"end":54.807218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.27971875,"end":55.431593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.127218750000004,"end":62.924093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.80971875,"end":66.99096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.99096875000001,"end":67.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.30721875,"end":72.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.32784375,"end":73.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.60596875,"end":75.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.62284375,"end":74.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.63096875000001,"end":79.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.30159375000001,"end":79.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.32659375,"end":84.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.42721875000001,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.63346875,"end":91.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.26971875000001,"end":97.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.24346875,"end":100.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.99409375,"end":107.62596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.16596875,"end":112.89096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.89096875000001,"end":112.90784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.51534375000001,"end":113.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.97096875000001,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.03846875,"end":115.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.67971875,"end":115.28721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.53159375000001,"end":117.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.54846875000001,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.97034375000001,"end":118.88159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.88159375000001,"end":118.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.40471875,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.42159375000001,"end":123.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.45534375000001,"end":120.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.70346875000001,"end":124.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.99034375000001,"end":125.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.98159375,"end":128.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.46221875,"end":131.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.62221875,"end":132.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.93846875,"end":134.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.43596875,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.78159375,"end":139.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.82346875000002,"end":143.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.53596875,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.50159375,"end":151.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.10846875000001,"end":159.56721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.73596875,"end":160.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.14096875,"end":162.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.57096875000002,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.23721875,"end":168.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.44346875000002,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.46846875,"end":173.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.01221875000002,"end":180.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.26846875,"end":182.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.00659375,"end":186.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.35596875000002,"end":188.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":189.46971875,"end":195.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.94159375,"end":198.05909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.57784375,"end":205.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.90596875,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.60596875000002,"end":211.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.30596875,"end":218.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.39346875,"end":220.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.12721875000003,"end":223.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":223.59096875,"end":226.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.30784375000002,"end":227.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.36659375000002,"end":230.42534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.86409375000002,"end":232.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.65284375000002,"end":233.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.83409375000002,"end":237.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.74909375000001,"end":237.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.76596875,"end":237.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.81659375,"end":239.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.75721875000002,"end":241.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.22096875000003,"end":245.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.25846875000002,"end":251.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.48096875000002,"end":253.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.34971875000002,"end":263.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.29346875000005,"end":266.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":266.79096875,"end":267.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.44909375000003,"end":267.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.90471875000003,"end":268.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.02284375,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.76034375,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.02971875000003,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.24909375000004,"end":278.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.29971875,"end":284.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.57721875000004,"end":286.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.21409375,"end":292.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.10346875,"end":292.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.52534375,"end":293.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.48284375000003,"end":298.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.03909375,"end":299.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.62971875,"end":301.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.05971875,"end":304.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.60784375000003,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.59034375000005,"end":309.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.75471875,"end":313.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.36596875000004,"end":314.49659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.78346875,"end":315.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.38659375000003,"end":317.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":318.22596875,"end":319.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.70221875000004,"end":321.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.19159375000004,"end":322.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.22534375000004,"end":322.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.95096875,"end":323.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.03534375000004,"end":323.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":323.54159375,"end":323.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.40221875000003,"end":329.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.81909375000004,"end":338.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.83596875,"end":330.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.21971875,"end":333.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.42534375,"end":342.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.49221875,"end":346.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.03596875,"end":347.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.41534375000003,"end":352.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.76909375,"end":355.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.11034375,"end":357.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.96659375,"end":367.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.93971875,"end":386.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.18159375000005,"end":386.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.80596875000003,"end":388.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.74659375000005,"end":389.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.84784375000004,"end":388.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.03346875,"end":394.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.63596875,"end":396.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.72846875000005,"end":398.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.78721875,"end":401.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.68971875000005,"end":402.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.97221875,"end":403.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.95096875,"end":405.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.62159375000005,"end":406.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.27971875000003,"end":407.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.39346875,"end":408.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.49034375,"end":413.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.87346875000003,"end":414.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.81846875,"end":415.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.74659375000005,"end":416.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.16846875000005,"end":416.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.19784375,"end":418.12596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.846,"end":11.635,"text":"主席、在場委員、先進列席政府預算上官員會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、新生。又請我們速發部黃部長還有主計處的李處長和人事處的莫處長。好,請部長、處長。我要。"},{"start":28.286,"end":49.586,"text":"部長好兩位處長好我今天不要提呢短期專案補足政府治安能力定期公佈非實名制廣告平台來我們看一下部長既然我們政府的治安能力不足為什麼高考只開11名缺我看一下目前我們中央跟地方的缺額是239個但是呢提報值卻只提報11個結果不到200人來考什麼原因部長"},{"start":52.918,"end":62.505,"text":"請自安署那個書長簡單的說我直接問你啦為什麼是因為我們公部門待遇低嗎你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給跟績效獎金了專業加給合訂了沒簡單好時間有限好報告委員因為這個考試公布是12月28號你簡單告訴我有沒有有沒有幫助"},{"start":73.686,"end":76.907,"text":"政府加薪拚得過民間搶財嗎?美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬。一般的AI工程師在台灣也有大概300萬,平均月收入是25萬。"},{"start":98.257,"end":125.336,"text":"啊你看你們考試院我看在考試院齁你們現在找的這些人我把名字調出來齁若是資安人員或資訊人員大概最頂到9、9萬或8萬8能比嗎部長你覺得這樣的就算加了專業家籍跟技巧養精有辦法搶得過人嗎確實是一個問題啦那怎麼辦怎麼解決這個是一個來我們來看一下現在公安部資安人員人體多少是不是剛剛那個數字資安人員8萬9萬"},{"start":127.011,"end":133.93,"text":"啊跟明天下一題啊那月薪有10萬嗎?愛芳就像業界為什麼原因你知道嗎?"},{"start":135.472,"end":159.207,"text":"因為我們現在政府用的是怎樣?以質蓄心啊。如果你是師長階層的檢任12職等就12萬5。你是科長的9職等的就8萬多。以此類推。也就是說你們的編制是什麼職缺來的人又什麼薪水是不是這樣子?為什麼請人事跟主計來就要請他們幫忙講啊?你們兩位處長趕快過來告訴他。是不是以質蓄心?政府用的是以質蓄心?"},{"start":160.267,"end":185.563,"text":"我們趕快趕快因為時間的關係往下看但是呢美國呢軍方很特別啊軍方他們需要這些資訊人才他們叫什麼以薪敘職啊你在民間多少錢我就用多少錢挖你這個錢如果相當於少校你進來就當少校這個錢現在進來是相當於少將你就是當少將部長你覺得如果我們要資安人才我們可以參照美國以薪敘職嗎"},{"start":188.183,"end":191.968,"text":"美國的做法我們沒辦法做,那往下來怎麼辦?"},{"start":199.602,"end":220.028,"text":"你們現在做了大概三種一個是用正職或約聘僱那他就是以職續薪加上加給有薪酬上限但是呢可以直接執行另外一種就委外外包廠商包去做另外一種呢就是什麼承攬找人來找學界來找學來承攬委辦然後呢他就寫個研究報告他不能執行沒有薪資上限"},{"start":221.161,"end":240.751,"text":"除了這三種方法有沒有其他方法可以解決我們有那個法人像治安院他信了治安院就是委外啊他能夠直接執行嗎要搖頭到底是不是治安院是不是委外還是承攬治安院是我們的行政法人所以基本上也是辦個政府主席他的心智也這樣有上限嘛可以追得上民間的標準嗎"},{"start":242.488,"end":242.728,"text":"接下來談打詐"},{"start":255.527,"end":282.627,"text":"儘管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台其中臉書跟meta加起來市占率四分之三但是呢詐騙廣告占的關係90%有將近6萬件嚴不嚴重嚴重對那你們怎麼做我在我報告裡面講過我們現在就是第一個要落實廣告實名制再來這就是廣告實名制的結果會杜絕很多這種假的很好所以呢我們立法院我質詢了13次我們跟行政院通過了4個法對不對"},{"start":284.668,"end":303.839,"text":"所以你們就說停止非實名制下廣告這是誰做的這一第一槍趙鋒晶開了第一槍是不是對有沒有效果有Meta說什麼數話部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制是不是這樣子對真的會落實嗎我們等著看喔身份驗證百分之百落實好接下來"},{"start":304.699,"end":319.327,"text":"可是除了Meta之外未落地的網路平台怎麼納管抖音這裡面有詐騙有毒品有色情小紅書三方詐騙點數卡淘寶也有淘寶小紅書抖音有落地嗎沒有落地沒有落地你怎麼管"},{"start":324.677,"end":347.512,"text":"我們現在這個第一個先處理剛剛講的這個投資詐騙廣告這些大概就是都是那是在有平台有落地的平台你可以要求他對不對那沒有落地的平台怎麼辦怎麼納管也是一樣一個月提一個對應方案可以嗎可以那個這個就是我們就是事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析我們就會解析好頭目停止解析那是涉請"},{"start":348.513,"end":367.309,"text":"所以除了同步停止解析之外我都猜得到你要做什麼了還有哪些對策其實網路平台如果實名制廣告其實就有很大的影響因為越多非實名制的你下載你的廣告容易受詐騙所以其實業界民間自發性的要求去抵制要非實名制他不下廣告"},{"start":368.61,"end":393.459,"text":"這個請你們定期公佈好不好你們定期公佈那些非實名制的廣告平台以及這平台的詐騙數量供民間參考廣告組自己做決定他要不要持續在這些沒有落地的或非實名制的平台他要不要繼續投放廣告我們讓這個市場力量來發揮機制可不可以以後定期做這個事情可以嗎定期公佈非實名制廣告網路平台及各網路平台的詐騙案件各樣數據"},{"start":395.099,"end":416.386,"text":"讓所有的廣告主知道你不要浪費錢在那些民間通販廣告不但無效而且助長詐騙好不好今天用三個決議兩個報告怎麼樣招攬人才怎麼樣未納管這些未落地的平台未納管錢你怎麼處置以及最後定期公佈好不好部長可以嗎可以好謝謝謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":901,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時21分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關長官、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請數發部黃部長、主計處李處長和人事處莫處長。"],["主席：請部長、處長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好，兩位處長好。這是本席今天的質詢標題，短期專案補足政府資安能力，定期公布非實名制廣告平台。部長，既然政府的資安能力不足，為什麼高考只開11個缺？目前中央和地方的缺額是239個，但是職缺只提報11個，結果不到200人來考。因為什麼原因？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：這個部分請資安署署長說明。"],["鍾委員佳濱：本席直接問你啦！為什麼？是因為公部門待遇低嗎？你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給和績效獎金？核定沒有？簡單說明就好，因為時間有限。"],["謝署長翠娟：因為這個考試是12月28日公布，學生……"],["鍾委員佳濱：請你簡單告訴本席，有沒有幫助？給專案加給和績效獎金有徵到才嗎？"],["謝署長翠娟：有幫助，絕對有幫助。但是要努力爭取，因為如果太少的話，也是沒有辦法和業界競爭。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。部長，你看，馬上說到下一題。政府加薪拚得過民間搶才嗎？美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬元，一般的AI工程師，在臺灣大概也有300萬元，他們的平均月收入是25萬元。考試院現在找的這些人，本席把名字調出來，如果是資安人員或資訊人員，最頂大概是9萬元或8萬8,000元，這樣能比嗎？部長，就算加了專業加給和績效獎金，有辦法搶到人嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這確實是一個問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：怎麼辦？怎麼解決？"],["黃部長彥男：這是一個全面性的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們來看一下，現在公部門資安人員能領多少？是不是剛剛那個數字？8萬元、9萬元，月薪有10萬元嗎？有辦法追上業界嗎？你知道為什麼嗎？因為現在政府是以職續薪，如果你是司長階層簡任12職等，就是12萬5,000元，如果是科長9職等，就是八萬多元，依此類推。也就是說，你們的編制是什麼職缺，來的人就是什麼薪水，是不是這樣子？為什麼請人事和主計上台？就是要請他們幫忙說明啦！兩位處長趕快過來告訴他，政府用的是不是以職續薪？"],["李處長錫東：沒有錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是美國軍方很特別，因為他們需要這些資訊人才，所以是以薪續職，你在民間多少錢，我們就用多少錢挖你過來。如果薪資相當於少校，你一進來就是少校，如果相當於少將，你就是當少將。部長，我們的資安人才可以參照美國以薪續職嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：公部門大概很難，因為這牽涉到……"],["鍾委員佳濱：很難！美國的做法，我們沒辦法比照，怎麼辦？你們現在有三種做法，一個是正職或約聘僱，就是以職續薪加上加給，有薪酬上限，但是可以直接執行。另外一種就是委外，外包給廠商去做。還有一種是什麼？承攬，找學界、學者承攬委辦，他們就是寫研究報告，但是不能執行，沒有薪資上限。除了這三種方法，有沒有其他方法可以解決？"],["黃部長彥男：我們有法人，像資安院，它現在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：資安院就是委外啊！它能夠直接執行嗎？有人搖頭。到底資安院是不是委外？還是承攬？"],["李處長錫東：資安院是我們的行政法人，所以基本上也是半個政府機關。"],["鍾委員佳濱：他的薪資也是一樣有上限嘛！追得上民間的標準嗎？"],["李處長錫東：這就相當於剛才委員說的以職續薪。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對嘛！是以職續薪嘛！部長，怎麼辦？請你們研究，一個月內提出辦法，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。接下來談打詐，金管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台，其中臉書和Meta加起來市占率四分之三，但是這兩個平台的詐騙廣告就占了90%，將近6萬件。嚴不嚴重？"],["黃部長彥男：嚴重。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們怎麼做？"],["黃部長彥男：我在報告裡面有說過，現在第一個就是落實廣告實名制，廣告實名制會杜絕很多假的詐騙廣告。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。我在立法院質詢了13次，行政院通過4個法，對不對？停止非實名制下廣告是誰做的？"],["黃部長彥男：兆豐金。"],["鍾委員佳濱：兆豐金開了第一槍，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有沒有效果？有，Meta說什麼？數發部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制。是不是這樣？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：真的會落實嗎？我們等著看喔！身分驗證百分之百落實。可是除了Meta之外，未落地的網路平台怎麼納管？抖音，這裡面有詐騙、有毒品、有色情，小紅書首傳三方詐騙，點數卡被拿走，淘寶也是一樣。淘寶、小紅書、抖音有落地嗎？沒有落地，你們怎麼管？"],["黃部長彥男：現在第一個就是先處理剛剛說的投資詐騙廣告，這些大概就是藉由……"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是在平台的部分。有落地的平台，你們可以要求它，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，有落地的平台。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有落地的平台怎麼辦？怎麼納管？也是一樣在一個月內提解決方案，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析，我們就會停止解析。"],["鍾委員佳濱：同步停止解析，那是色情的部分。除了同步停止解析之外，本席都猜得到你要說什麼了，還有哪些對策？其實網路平台改成實名制廣告就有很大的影響，因為越多非實名制的廣告越容易受詐騙。其實業界、民間也自發性要求抵制，如果是非實名制，他們就不下廣告。這個部分請你們定期公布，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你們要定期公布那些非實名制的廣告平台，以及這個平台的詐騙數量，供民間參考。廣告主自己做決定，要不要持續在這些沒有落地，或非採實名制的平台繼續投放廣告，我們讓市場力量發揮機制。可不可以？"],["黃部長彥男：可以，這是很好的建議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：以後定期做這件事情，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：定期公布非實名制廣告網路平台，及各網路平台的詐騙案件等各樣數據，讓所有廣告主知道，你不要浪費錢在那些地方投放廣告，因為不但無效，而且還助長詐騙，好不好？今天三個決議、兩個報告，怎麼樣招攬人才？這些未落地的平台未納管前，你們怎麼處置？最後，定期公布，好不好？部長，可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好，可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的指導。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157810","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157810","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360e288fe2c1b3f371fca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a106a64db3ebae0f41b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"12:10:42 - 12:21:28","影片長度":"00:10:46","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:10:42+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:21:28+08:00","duration":646,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.23346875,"end":1.0434687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.4822187500000001,"end":3.4734687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.7097187500000004,"end":4.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.15971875,"end":13.919093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.492843750000002,"end":35.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.69721875,"end":30.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.36721875,"end":66.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.73784375000001,"end":74.75346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.25971875,"end":78.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.00596875000001,"end":90.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.26971875000001,"end":92.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.63659375,"end":95.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.40846875000001,"end":119.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.03346875000001,"end":124.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.99034375000001,"end":142.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.36909375000002,"end":131.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.48971875,"end":149.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.17221875,"end":156.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.73221875000002,"end":158.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.30159375000002,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.49034375000002,"end":171.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.56534375,"end":171.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.58221875,"end":171.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.59909375,"end":173.20221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.63284375,"end":172.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.74659375000002,"end":174.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.09659375,"end":174.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.99096875,"end":177.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.42096875000001,"end":178.19721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.19721875000002,"end":214.46159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.68096875,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.58159375000002,"end":255.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.20159375000003,"end":336.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.13409375000003,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.92221875,"end":353.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.03909375,"end":353.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.19096875,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.03471875,"end":373.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.50846875,"end":374.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.97659375,"end":419.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.35784375000003,"end":427.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.03534375000004,"end":441.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.10534375000003,"end":458.32221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.55846875000003,"end":459.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.68909375000004,"end":461.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.39346875,"end":486.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.46971875,"end":494.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.08034375000005,"end":495.27846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.49784375,"end":503.29409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.27784375000005,"end":499.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.59784375000004,"end":505.47096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.90971875,"end":512.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.27159375,"end":572.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.31284375,"end":592.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.34346875,"end":592.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.3603437500001,"end":594.3347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.8115937499999,"end":602.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.07284375,"end":596.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.6372187500001,"end":620.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.73284375,"end":612.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.69346875,"end":632.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.50596875,"end":632.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":632.53971875,"end":633.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.3959687500001,"end":635.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.53096875,"end":637.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.9440937500001,"end":644.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.0447187500001,"end":641.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.4453437500001,"end":646.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":644.9765937500001,"end":645.2465937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.091,"end":3.032,"text":"謝謝趙偉謝謝主席那有請部長好我們請部長"},{"start":13.168,"end":34.879,"text":"好,部長好。部長想直接先請教一下在今年7月的時候部長曾經公開的宣稱數位發展部要成立一個假訊息委員會那在應應面對網路上各式各樣的假訊息不實訊息那我想先請教部長這個委員會大家眾所期待進度如何?"},{"start":37.386,"end":57.465,"text":"主要是我們想結合NGO的力量因為我覺得訊息的真假不應該由政府來判斷所以那時候我的這個想法是說我們會結合像我們現在有這個網路事實通報、網路事實查核中心還有所謂這些NGO包括什麼MicroPen我們是希望藉由這些民間力量對假訊息來做一個判斷"},{"start":58.146,"end":77.958,"text":"但是最後要不要下架這展訊息還是需要有一個目的事業主導機關來跟我們講那我們就可以下架這樣好那所以說今天來講還是要針對假訊息或網路上的不實訊息來做一些處理嘛那到時候再做一個判斷那我們看一個圖那在這個圖我不知道這個部長你有沒有看過"},{"start":79.062,"end":90.238,"text":"在昨天的話有這樣子的一個訊息那我想請教一下部長像這樣子的一個圖啊一個梗圖啊那他這樣子是真的訊息還是假的訊息還是是屬於不實的訊息"},{"start":95.449,"end":118.302,"text":"他上面有提到了零零總總因為南韓昨天在戒嚴嘛這個是全世界都在關注那這樣子的一個梗圖啊還沒有發揮人機己機、人逆己逆關心國際情勢的這種擔憂的心情、煩惡還在上面就寫百般刁難往逸川就職除了他沒有戴酒車旗之外應該也沒有什麼刁難"},{"start":120.704,"end":133.1,"text":"為什麼很多訊息需要由NGO來判斷因為這是個人的意見我想問一下像這樣子的訊息是不是等於是一個模糊焦點或是一個不實訊息或是一個在操弄社會對立的訊息"},{"start":134.662,"end":156.179,"text":"但是如果是有違反違背這樣子的一個風氣的時候是不是就應該要有專業的一個機制來讓他下架就是說為什麼不適合由政府來做判斷就是像這種訊息應該交由社會的那我想直接請教一下部長您看這樣的訊息在昨天那樣子的場合像這樣子一個梗圖是不是應該要下架"},{"start":157.26,"end":175.639,"text":"這是個人言論自由個人言論自由對那所以說像這樣訊息的話其實在假訊息委員會來講的話是不用被審核不用下架的不是就是這個其實這是個人的意見所謂假訊息就是說他拿假內容的話是內容那是個人意見那你知道這個帳號是什麼帳號嗎"},{"start":178.242,"end":204.281,"text":"好我跟你講這個就是立法院民進黨黨團帳號但他自己就下架了啦沒關係但是我還是要針對這個這樣子用小號發生張貼不實訊息那以及目前假訊息委員會的設置進度及業務分工以及就是未來來講要為社會帶來的這個就是實際上效益還是希望數發部可以在一個月"},{"start":204.941,"end":229.842,"text":"左右來跟交通委員會做一個進度上面的報告專案報告來讓我們對於假訊息的委員會能夠有更清楚的認知部長這樣可以嗎我就是會把我們的現在想法大概做個規劃不過就是剛剛講就是我這個所謂的委員會是指的是這個是一個NGO當一個組織那我們跟NGO都有談過所以我想就是用跟就是說一個訊息的出現應該有同時好幾個團體那沒關係部長"},{"start":232.063,"end":254.848,"text":"但是我希望在這過程中包括一個月左右的專案報告針對以這樣子的梗圖為例的一個假訊息委員會的進度那包括NCO的邀請那是要在社會是公正的那不是盡量避免這意識形態那我接著要就叫就是邀請我們的任性建設師市長"},{"start":258.56,"end":277.308,"text":"在今天我們其實看到部長他其實有為了訴發部的同仁跟士氣那也是跟大家做一個道歉我知道這部長其實是很希望我們部內大家的士氣能夠維護"},{"start":278.829,"end":304.231,"text":"那當然說在這個霸凌的一個行為來講在目前社會各界飽受檢討所以我知道師長其實你心裡很清楚所以我相信師長今天如黃建豪委員所說的您有出息還不像勞動部的分署長他選擇逃避那所以在這裡您的出息我相信您也是正面的面對那我現在個人是覺得"},{"start":305.534,"end":317.477,"text":"議長剛才為了這個部分的道歉他也是為了您的道歉那我覺得其實現在社會各界欠一個說法今天姑且不論調查報告13號才出爐我覺得針對這個事件來講我想請市長簡單的30秒做一個回應除了在"},{"start":324.139,"end":335.889,"text":"回應推給說調查報告我覺得其實就頓對著訴發部的同仁有看著部長來簡短的來回應不管是道歉也好或是回應也好請讓你30秒"},{"start":339.238,"end":352.634,"text":"接著就是我們剛剛說的生智檢討那我也部長你道歉我也是先要造成大家的困擾一定要先道歉對同仁非常的抱歉生智檢討接受調查"},{"start":355.297,"end":373.729,"text":"希望說這個部分能夠痛定思痛那因為我們不否認你對你們領域的專業但是我坦白講機關內大家必須還要上下一心那覺得延續剛才許志堅委員所提到的就是我們我翻到了我們這個預算書這個PTT的最後一頁那"},{"start":375.049,"end":403.367,"text":"在這個預算書上面所揭示的內容啊訴發部預算總說明他的重要施政追蹤管制考核的這個實施成果跟說明的部分我們看到了辦理總統副總統巡視指示及交班事項行政院重要會議決定決議事項及院長指示事項還有財政法人的管理監督那我想請問一下我們看了這個實施成果跟內容那我們也"},{"start":404.167,"end":406.549,"text":"這是說明的內容是不是再補充說明一下是不是"},{"start":431.415,"end":441.004,"text":"總統或副總統這個巡視指示交辦事項這個我都知道蔡市長你很認真我知道我是說那立法院跟民意的部分為了不在數法部的管考內容之中"},{"start":442.128,"end":443.048,"text":"接下來的話本席針對我們看到這個軟體"},{"start":461.454,"end":483.089,"text":"就是目前司法院他們的員工有跟我們這邊陳情他是有強制在司法院的機關電腦來講必須用個人手機登錄以及包括跟這個他的系統做一個聯動那我想請問一下我們目前看到的這樣子的手機必須要登錄機關電腦以及使用這個APP那部長知道這個APP嗎?"},{"start":486.971,"end":502.52,"text":"我自己也有這個IDExpert這個是不是這個有幾個單位有在用包括他這是強制的嗎就是多因子認證裡面這是一個管道那這個管道像有些單位我知道有在用這樣的軟體"},{"start":503.641,"end":527.6,"text":"那這個部長你自己有在使用?我自己在在我們的這個因為我個人在中研院的網站他也是用這個軟體所以我有在用你有在用那目前來講因為時間已經到了那司法院的同仁他有跟我們這邊陳情啊那他是說這個是是不是能夠達到這個個資的標準以及包括在技術上的防護都能夠不被竊取個資尤其他們在"},{"start":528.36,"end":548.457,"text":"公司如果用這個登錄之後他們聯動的個人手機包括他們的通訊軟體的通話訊息會被做一個聯動甚至在技術上是不是安全因為司法院他必須被要求使用這個APP的時候也表示著包括未來地檢署、調查站等等他們也是會被要求還用這樣子的一個系統APP"},{"start":549.258,"end":571.04,"text":"那我本席在這裡還是建議就是部長能夠簡單的回應啊因為司法體系調查體系對這個APP的要求使用他們對技術上的質疑到底是這樣子的房屋是堅若磐石嗎還是說會不會被駭客攻擊的時候變成遺卵即死那我在想在這個使用上的技術是不是部長簡單回應就好"},{"start":572.341,"end":592.169,"text":"這個IDExpert就像講他是用這些我們所知道的像FIDO啦這些OTP的技術就是說當然系統implementation有沒有漏洞又不是很清楚但是他用的標準他用的機制是OK的所以我想這個還是可以再進一步去評估就是了"},{"start":592.469,"end":620.337,"text":"所以不會被駭客入侵,原則上?對,就是說如果他的implementation,畢竟軟體是人寫的嘛,如果他軟體是不是夠安全,這個因為不是很清楚但是他現在所講的這個不管是FIDO或是OTP這個是現在所謂的多因子認證的常用的標準,所以這個標準是OK但是在所謂的這個軟體的產生過程中是不是有其他漏洞,這個是因為是全景的軟體我就不清楚"},{"start":620.757,"end":643.051,"text":"好那沒關係那因為你剛才有提到一句就不是很清楚但是就來源跟內容來講啦但是我是覺得當機關的同仁使用上有疑慮的話就數位發展部就主動出面說明啊我們可以去就直接針對機關各單位來去做宣告就好這個這是可以我們再請那個我們事實上再去評估一下這個問題的安全性好OK謝謝好謝謝有話委員謝謝部長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":851,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（12時10分）謝謝召委，謝謝主席。請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["游委員顥：部長好。部長，今年7月的時候，部長曾經公開宣稱數位發展部要成立一個假訊息委員會，因應、面對網路上各式各樣的假訊息、不實訊息，本席想先請教部長，因為這個委員會眾所期待，進度如何？"],["黃部長彥男：我們主要是想結合NGO的力量，因為我覺得訊息的真假不應該由政府判斷，所以那時候我的想法是結合其他單位，像現在有網路事實查核中心，還有NGO，包括MyGoPen，我們希望藉由這些民間力量對假訊息做一個判斷，但最後要不要下架這個訊息，還是需要由目的事業主管機關告訴我們，這樣我們就可以下架。"],["游委員顥：所以還是要針對假訊息或網路上的不實訊息做一些處理，到時候再做判斷。我們來看一張圖，部長有沒有看過這張圖？昨天有這樣的訊息。本席想請教一下部長，像這樣的梗圖，它是真的訊息還是假的訊息？還是屬於不實訊息？它上面有提到很多事情，因為南韓昨天戒嚴嘛！全世界都在關注。這樣的梗圖沒有發揮人飢己飢、人溺己溺的精神，也沒有因為關心國際情勢而有所擔憂，反而是寫百般刁難王義川就職，但事實是除了他沒有帶酒測器之外，應該也沒有所謂的刁難。"],["黃部長彥男：為什麼很多訊息需要由NGO判斷？因為這是個人的意見。"],["游委員顥：本席想問一下，像這樣的訊息是不是模糊焦點，或是不實訊息，或是在操弄社會對立的訊息？如果有違反、違背社會風氣，是不是應該要有專業的機制讓它下架？對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：為什麼不適合由政府判斷？像這種訊息應該交由社會的……"],["游委員顥：本席直接請教部長，你看這樣的訊息，在昨天那樣的場合，像這樣的梗圖是不是應該下架？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，這是個人言論自由。"],["游委員顥：對，個人言論自由。所以像這樣的訊息，就假訊息委員會來說，不用審核、不用下架？"],["黃部長彥男：不是，其實這是個人意見。所謂的假訊息是說，他拿假……"],["游委員顥：內容呢？"],["黃部長彥男：那個內容是個人意見。"],["游委員顥：你知道這是什麼帳號嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我不曉得這是什麼帳號。"],["游委員顥：好，本席告訴你，這個就是立法院民進黨黨團的帳號，他們自己下架了啦！沒關係，但是針對這樣用小號發聲、張貼不實訊息的狀況，以及目前假訊息委員會的設置進度及業務分工，還有未來要為社會帶來的實際效益，希望數發部可以在一個月左右，向交通委員會做進度方面的專案報告，讓我們對假訊息委員會有更清楚的認知。部長，這樣可以嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我會把我們現在的想法大概做個規劃，不過就像剛剛說的，我所謂的委員會指的是一個NGO的組織，我們有和NGO談過，一個訊息的出現，應該同時由好幾個團體……"],["游委員顥：沒關係。部長，本席希望在這個過程中，包括一個月左右要做的專案報告，以這樣的梗圖為例，說明假訊息委員會的進度，包括對NGO團體的邀請，他們必須在社會上是公正的，儘量避免意識形態。","本席接著要就教韌性建設司司長，今天看到部長為了數發部的同仁和士氣向大家道歉，本席知道部長其實很希望部內的士氣能夠維護，當然，就霸凌行為來說，目前飽受社會各界檢討。司長，其實你心裡也很清楚，就如黃健豪委員說的，您今天出席，不像勞動部的分署長選擇逃避，本席相信您是要正面面對。本席覺得部長剛才的道歉，也是為了您而道歉，但現在還是欠社會各界一個說法，今天姑且不論調查報告結果如何，因為13日才會出爐，針對這個事件，請司長簡單用30秒回應，不要再推給調查報告，你就面對數發部的同仁，也看著部長，不管是道歉也好，或是回應也好。"],["鄭司長明宗：謝謝委員。就如同我們剛剛說的，我會深自檢討，部長已經道歉，我也要因為造成大家的困擾先道歉，對同仁非常抱歉。我會深自檢討，也會接受調查。"],["游委員顥：也希望能夠痛定思痛。我們不否認你在你們的領域是專業的，但是本席也要坦白說，在機關內，大家必須上下一心。","接著延續剛才許智傑委員提到的，就是本席PTT的最後一頁，這是預算書上面揭示的內容，數發部預算總說明「重要施政追蹤管制考核」的實施成果和說明，我們看到辦理總統或副總統巡視指示及交辦事項、行政院重要會議決定、決議及院長指示事項，還有財團法人的管理監督。","本席想請問一下，我們看了這個實施成果和內容，也翻了所有部會的預算書，但是只有數發部，立法院和民意的部分沒有列為管考的考核標準，本席想請問一下部長，這個部分要如何改進？"],["黃部長彥男：這是說明的內容。是不是再補充說明一下？"],["蔡司長壽洤：總統或副總統巡視指示交辦事項……"],["游委員顥：這些本席都知道。蔡司長，本席知道你很認真，本席現在是說立法院和民意的部分，為何不在數發部的管考內容之中？"],["蔡司長壽洤：未來我們會把這個部分納入管考。"],["游委員顥：要納入管考啦！好不好？因為剛才許智傑委員也有提到，許多委員提的案子也代表民意和地方建設需求，還是要把它納入，好不好？"],["蔡司長壽洤：是。"],["游委員顥：OK。關於這個軟體，日前司法院員工向我們陳情，司法院的機關電腦必須用個人手機登錄，和系統連動。本席想請問一下，就我們目前看到的，手機必須登錄機關內的電腦，以及使用這個app，部長知道這個app嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我自己也有，就是IDExpert，有幾個單位在用，包括……"],["游委員顥：這是強制的嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：在多因子認證裡面，這是一個管道，我知道有些單位有在用這樣的軟體。"],["游委員顥：部長，你自己有在使用嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：因為中研院的網站也是用這個軟體，所以我有在使用。"],["游委員顥：發言時間已經到了。司法院的同仁向我們陳情，他質疑這個軟體是不是能夠達到防護個資的標準，包括技術上的防護，能夠不被竊取個資？尤其是如果他們在公司用這個軟體登錄，並和個人手機連動，包括他們的通話訊息也會連動，技術上是不是安全？因為司法院要求使用這個app的時候，也表示包括地檢署、調查站等等，他們也會被要求使用這樣的app系統。","本席還是建議，請部長簡單回應，因為司法體系、調查體系要求使用這個app，但員工對技術方面有所質疑，這樣的防護堅若磐石嗎？被駭客攻擊的時候會不會變成以卵擊石？關於使用的技術，部長簡單回應就好。"],["黃部長彥男：IDExpert就是使用我們知道的，像FIDO這些OTP的技術。當然，系統implementation有沒有漏洞，這我不是很清楚，但是它使用的標準、機制是OK的，我想這個部分還可以再進一步評估。"],["游委員顥：所以原則上不會被駭客入侵？"],["黃部長彥男：畢竟軟體是由人編寫，所以它的軟體是不是夠安全？這個部分我不是很清楚，但是就它現在使用的，不管是FIDO或是OTP，這是現在所謂的多因子認證常常用的標準，這個標準是OK的。但是這個軟體的產生過程是不是有其他漏洞？因為這是全景的軟體，我就不清楚了。"],["游委員顥：好，沒關係。但是你剛才有提到一句，就來源和內容來說，你不是很清楚，但當機關同仁在使用上有疑慮時，數發部要主動出面說明。"],["黃部長彥男：我們可以去……"],["游委員顥：直接針對機關及單位宣導。"],["黃部長彥男：這是可以的。我們再請同仁評估一下這個軟體的安全性。"],["游委員顥：好，OK，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝游顥委員，謝謝部長。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157809","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157809","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360c6b16ec53caf9b8aca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1068b571ebbc9e398835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"11:59:14 - 12:10:24","影片長度":"00:11:10","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:59:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:10:24+08:00","duration":670,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.97596875,"end":2.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.69284375,"end":4.1822187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.1822187500000005,"end":4.199093749999999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.94471875,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.649093750000002,"end":15.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.395343750000002,"end":17.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.711593750000002,"end":20.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.297843750000002,"end":23.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.563468750000002,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.145343750000002,"end":39.180968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.414718750000002,"end":28.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.76909375,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.80221875,"end":33.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.70909375,"end":34.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.81034375,"end":34.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.99596875,"end":35.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.197843750000004,"end":39.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.23159375,"end":42.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.48409375,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.065343750000004,"end":52.478468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.68534375,"end":52.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":53.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.36409375,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.74721875,"end":66.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.65346875,"end":68.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.38721875,"end":73.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.90534375,"end":84.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.96284375,"end":94.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.07096875,"end":95.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.16784375,"end":97.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.61471875000001,"end":101.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.87159375,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.37346875,"end":104.72346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.48284375,"end":106.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.62596875000001,"end":108.67221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.34721875000001,"end":112.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.69659375,"end":124.75409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.83846875,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.06159375000001,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.04846875,"end":133.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.45721875,"end":138.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.74346875,"end":139.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.99221875,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.59909375,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.24346875,"end":163.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.14034375,"end":167.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":168.91596875000002,"end":203.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.56909375,"end":174.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.30659375000002,"end":180.69471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.43659375000001,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.75034375,"end":207.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.60659375,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.11659375000002,"end":210.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.34409375,"end":210.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.73221875000002,"end":214.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.55846875,"end":253.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.52846875,"end":245.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.57909375000003,"end":245.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.88159375,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.96534375,"end":258.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.03284375000004,"end":258.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":258.69096875,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.95221875000004,"end":261.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.03659375,"end":261.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.49221875,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.96471875000003,"end":262.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.03221875,"end":263.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.52159375,"end":264.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.56346875,"end":264.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.76596875,"end":271.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.45784375,"end":265.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.02284375,"end":268.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.91721875,"end":269.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.31784375,"end":270.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.97159375,"end":276.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.40971875,"end":279.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.53159375,"end":281.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.70846875,"end":282.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.54784375,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.04534375000003,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.15034375,"end":289.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.31471875,"end":291.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.25534375,"end":293.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.38159375000004,"end":296.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.31784375,"end":303.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.79784375,"end":309.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.36659375,"end":313.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.07471875000005,"end":327.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.74346875000003,"end":333.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.90284375000005,"end":346.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.45346875,"end":349.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.40659375,"end":354.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.36784375,"end":355.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.92471875,"end":360.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.61596875000004,"end":364.51409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.71659375,"end":366.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.04096875000005,"end":371.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.56784375,"end":371.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.63534375,"end":382.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.65221875000003,"end":372.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.61409375000005,"end":372.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.18721875,"end":377.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.81096875000003,"end":382.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.45221875000004,"end":387.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":382.60409375,"end":382.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.51471875000004,"end":389.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.34971875,"end":393.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.92721875,"end":396.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.79159375,"end":399.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.09909375,"end":404.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.91284375000004,"end":406.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.64659375,"end":408.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.67596875000004,"end":411.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.28721875,"end":413.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.22784375000003,"end":415.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.43846875,"end":418.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.67846875000004,"end":420.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.12971875000005,"end":427.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.86284375,"end":428.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.07784375,"end":432.45284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.85784375000003,"end":435.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.67159375000006,"end":440.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.24909375000004,"end":441.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.10534375000003,"end":443.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.04596875000004,"end":444.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.00784375,"end":450.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.61034375,"end":452.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.46659375,"end":460.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.38096875,"end":461.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.42284375,"end":463.67159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.97534375000004,"end":472.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.00346875,"end":475.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.23909375000005,"end":483.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.02721875000003,"end":486.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.25034375,"end":487.71846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.35159375,"end":486.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.71846875000006,"end":506.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.22471875,"end":489.37221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.50721875000005,"end":489.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.55784375,"end":490.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.94096875,"end":495.31221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.56409375000004,"end":503.68221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.46659375,"end":512.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.59221875,"end":513.2334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.60909375,"end":513.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.25034375,"end":516.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.37221875,"end":516.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.08096875,"end":527.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.6615937500001,"end":531.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.57221875,"end":533.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.1709687499999,"end":535.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.06096875,"end":537.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.00596875,"end":541.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.9209687499999,"end":546.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.01721875,"end":553.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.8134687500001,"end":554.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.2353437500001,"end":555.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.73721875,"end":576.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.72159375,"end":580.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.5772187499999,"end":594.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.95909375,"end":595.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.11096875,"end":595.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.1784687500001,"end":596.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.93346875,"end":598.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":599.05971875,"end":599.1272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.1272187500001,"end":599.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.65034375,"end":600.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.9834687499999,"end":601.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.2153437500001,"end":602.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.39659375,"end":603.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.7803437499999,"end":608.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.5222187500001,"end":609.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.41659375,"end":613.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.6184687500001,"end":614.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.0065937500001,"end":617.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.3815937500001,"end":622.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.1909687500001,"end":623.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.22471875,"end":623.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.24159375,"end":623.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.39346875,"end":623.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.56221875,"end":626.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.63346875,"end":633.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":634.05846875,"end":636.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":636.58971875,"end":639.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":639.39096875,"end":641.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.66909375,"end":645.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.19596875,"end":645.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.3815937500001,"end":645.6684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.6684687500001,"end":651.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.71909375,"end":646.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":646.76534375,"end":647.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":649.3303437500001,"end":649.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.7434687500001,"end":653.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.0303437499999,"end":652.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.80659375,"end":652.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":653.09346875,"end":655.9115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.44346875,"end":655.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.45596875,"end":661.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.20596875,"end":669.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":665.59784375,"end":665.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.85096875,"end":665.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.96909375,"end":666.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.13784375,"end":666.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.0828437499999,"end":667.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.6059687500001,"end":667.6397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":667.70721875,"end":668.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.62659375,"end":671.20034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.384,"end":15.56,"text":"謝謝主席。我們請部長。黃部長。部長好。部長你知道我要問什麼嗎?數位工"},{"start":18.752,"end":19.852,"text":"那一天市長有到辦公室跟我"},{"start":43.527,"end":43.667,"text":"第二頁"},{"start":74.963,"end":97.059,"text":"那我們數話部就是說為了提升國際海欄登陸站的韌性建設促進我國國際通訊基礎建設的韌性發展所以呢這個不是說我們還編了那個獎補助費嘛對不對還有五千多萬的海欄登陸站的那個補助費用所以相對的就是說"},{"start":98.669,"end":120.844,"text":"任重道遠啦如果我們先假設這個海南站通通不成立的時候我們國家會急嘛總不能沒有嘛阿如果都沒有人來的時候到底怎麼處理嘛所以我也先感謝一下就是我們書畫部就是在9月2號10月1510月22都有召開這個座談會"},{"start":128.637,"end":150.99,"text":"我曾參加過一場。為什麼我一直這樣要求就是說這個對我們高雄來講非常的重要但是呢業者他如果通通不來或是他沒有主動來的時候國家任性建設又是關鍵基礎設施是不是速發部現在有"},{"start":152.321,"end":167.658,"text":"主動那也謝謝你們在開會的時候有七家國際海南的業者有來啦所以事實上書發部也蠻主動的我也蠻感謝的但是最後就是巴士已經有一撇了那第二撇不知道什麼時候可以劃得成"},{"start":169.293,"end":196.433,"text":"這報委員就是剛剛講就是我們現在就是要做規劃案那規劃案就是我們由我們來主導那規劃案現在就是在經費方面我們現在就是要跟國科會申請課發基金這個也有跟國科會主委吳主委有提過那我們現在正在進行這個工作只要這個基金下來我們就規劃規劃完以後剛剛就委員講的一些可能就是未來的營運啊未來的這個這個內容就會比較細部的規劃那這時候就再來再來"},{"start":197.754,"end":200.475,"text":"規劃就交給你們因為你們專業那我是希望說有沒有預計什麼時候可以有結果規劃的那個現在在申請"},{"start":215.609,"end":235.657,"text":"跟委員報告我們12月因為剛剛其實剛剛委員節裡有關鍵就是誰要來這八字的另外一撇現在重點是對於7家海南業者來講他們想要知道效益評估所以我們12月中會盡快召開因為把這個需求帶出來以後才能夠比較明確說明年"},{"start":236.457,"end":252.592,"text":"明年Q1因為我們同步已經在申請課發基金那明年Q1看至少有一個有一個initial有一個初步的一個確認因為需求要評估出來後這些海南業者才願意提出申請所以明年第一季希望有機會"},{"start":254.013,"end":282.103,"text":"好,那個OK先謝謝你們了就是12月現在已經12月了所以我們12月大概中旬我們大概20號前後我們會跟經濟部還有高雄市政府還有那個先把需求面把它研究出來我想我問了很多次了部長跟市長應該都很熟了就是說將來"},{"start":283.664,"end":293.663,"text":"需求面是看很遠嘛那你現在臺灣的AI的硬體製造業我們現在是世界最強的嘛"},{"start":294.591,"end":313.176,"text":"未來AI的設計跟應用當然我是比較私心不過我們高雄的條件也真的比北部好所以將來這個高雄好好的發展這個AI的設計跟應用我們有機會變成全台灣最好的一個AI的城市"},{"start":315.62,"end":325.456,"text":"當然這個的基礎點就是這個海嵐站部長跟市長也都覺得很重要所以我再一次的強調我希望說我本來一直覺得誰去掛鈴鐺"},{"start":328.777,"end":353.893,"text":"您說台南業者私人公司我們也不方便去找那如果是用數位發展部用公開公平公正的方式然後呢又你看這裡又有補助那由數位發展部來做一個尋找跟招標是最好啦所以我是覺得我的結論是這個鈴鐺我們就掛在數位發展部身上"},{"start":356.309,"end":366.058,"text":"務必到最後能夠促成海南真的完成那部長有沒有這樣子一個侃奉的信心我們努力啦我們努力"},{"start":368.789,"end":396.294,"text":"部長不敢說沒問題就是努力就是說我們還是就是規劃書出來就比較清楚到底是業者意願因為最終還是要有人去營運蓋完也會有人去所以我再舉個例子給部長參考我們鳳山火車站現在已經蓋好了那現在要招標要招商那如果台鐵公司的董事長跟我說我就努力招標但是如果標不出去的話"},{"start":397.93,"end":426.164,"text":"我那個地方空在那裏所以他不能說他要跟我說他務必要完成那些地方如果沒有標準是不會看的當然廠商有很多不同的考量他們當然要賺錢了撩錢的生意沒人做那我封山其實好處就是我找了一個山井拉拉破進來但是他們就變成說將來還要跟那個拉拉破競爭所以變成廠商也會猶豫跟卻步"},{"start":428.291,"end":435.042,"text":"所以這個都是商場上的問題我們知道但是台鐵公司總不能告訴我說我努力"},{"start":436.684,"end":461.144,"text":"我剛才說你務必要完成啦 這個控制案那裡是真的很難看 所以是務必要完成那部長自己認為 這個真的是國家重大建設 這個也是整個國家跟城市發展的重要指標 這個東西如果沒有完成 那我們後續的不要說我高雄的AI首都啦 包括全台灣的AI啦 都會受到"},{"start":462.449,"end":476.51,"text":"議員８"},{"start":477.341,"end":505.336,"text":"發言委員就是我剛講就是說我們第一階段先把規劃弄出來然後規劃出來後再規劃交給專業規劃我們來規劃OK我只希望說有人願意把它單下來說我一定會努力到最後把它完成這樣子一個重責大任這個是國家不只是高雄這是國家AI基礎建設重要的一個項目我們務必要讓國家完成這個項目"},{"start":506.477,"end":535.539,"text":"議案後會有很多細節出來包括經費需求等等等 這個出來後我們比較知道應該怎麼執行部長我覺得你比較保守一點因為這個的確是一個大工程 所以我需要一些資訊來做這個所謂的commitment不過這個不怕委員沒問題 我們會把這個東西一步一步把它做好你就說好了 我們會一步一步把它做到完成好不好我們努力努力不砸"},{"start":537.119,"end":553.494,"text":"政府部長我告訴你這是一個做部長的擔當今天我是許智傑是一個你問你你才會這樣回答我上一次有問過部長一次今天來金澤總統問你說部長你覺得這樣子努力到他完成為止你肯不肯"},{"start":554.81,"end":558.672,"text":"部長,其實我算脾氣很好。 我知道在亞東我真的可以賭賣很大聲,你知道嗎?"},{"start":582.894,"end":602.523,"text":"我們一定會先把規劃做出來以後再看後面怎麼進行再跟委員做看怎麼樣安排再請委員支持就是報告預算的爭取報告方面都需要再去努力我們主席聽到就覺得愛笑今天不要說你做補充 說我做補充 雖然我不是來行的"},{"start":610.472,"end":622.113,"text":"一個海南站在你的專業上有那麼困難嗎?推動一個海南站的登陸站,我如果說今天去全台都沒人設,我一定有付錢找到人來設。"},{"start":623.503,"end":623.523,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":641.727,"end":641.747,"text":"好,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":803,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（11時59分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["許委員智傑：部長好。部長，你知道我要問什麼嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：數位港。"],["許委員智傑：什麼時候可以做？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，上次我們在臺南開會，那一次開會就決定我們會先做規劃，我會申請經費，這個我也跟國科會主委提過，也給它一個規劃書，我們會申請科發基金，很快就要進行，先把規劃做出來，然後再去執行。"],["許委員智傑：OK。那天司長有到我辦公室跟我分析一下、分享一下現在的進度，我想我們把它confirm一下，因為這個比較重要。","你看海纜的管轄權，基本上申請跟核准都在NCC，現在我如果要請NCC去主導可能比較困難，所以這個部分到時候有需要NCC的話，我們再請他們幫忙。數發部為了提升國際海纜登陸站的韌性建設，促進我國國際通訊基礎建設的韌性發展，這個部分還編了獎補助費，對不對？還有五千多萬的海纜登陸站補助費用，所以相對的，任重道遠啦！如果我們先假設海纜站統統不成立的時候，我們國家會急嘛！總不能沒有嘛！如果都沒有人來的時候，到底怎麼處理？所以我先感謝一下數發部，在9月2日、10月15日、11月22日都有召開座談會，我也有去參加過一場，那基本上我為什麼一直這樣要求？因為這對我們高雄來講非常重要，但是業者如果統統不來或是他沒有主動來的時候，這個國家韌性建設又是關鍵基礎設施，是不是數發部現在有主動？那也謝謝你們在開會的時候，有7家國際海纜的業者有來，所以事實上數發部也滿主動的哦！也滿感謝的，但是最後就是八字已經有一撇了，第二撇不知道什麼時候可以畫得成？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，就是剛剛講的，我們現在要做規劃案，規劃案是由我們來主導，在經費方面我們現在要跟國科會申請科發基金，這個也有跟國科會吳主委提過，我們現在正在進行這個工作。"],["許委員智傑：是，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：只要這個基金下來我們就規劃，規劃完以後，對於剛剛委員所講的，一些未來的營運、未來的內容就會做比較細部的規劃，這時候再來看下一步的工作，也就是說，還是要找到一個營運商對將來……"],["許委員智傑：沒關係，規劃就交給你們，因為你們專業。"],["黃部長彥男：規劃是我們在規劃，對。"],["許委員智傑：好，我只希望說，有沒有預計什麼時候可以有結果？"],["黃部長彥男：規劃的部分，現在還在申請。"],["鄭司長明宗：跟委員報告，剛剛委員提了一個關鍵就是誰要來，這個八字的另外一撇，現在重點是對於7家海纜業者來講，他們想要知道效益評估，所以我們12月中會儘快召開，把這個需求帶出來以後才能夠比較明確說明年Q1，因為我們同步已經在申請科發基金，那明年Q1至少有一個initial，有一個初步的確認，因為需求要評估出來以後，這些海纜業者才願意提出申請，所以明年第1季希望有機會。"],["許委員智傑：好，先謝謝你們，現在已經12月了。"],["黃部長彥男：12月中。"],["許委員智傑：所以12月大概中旬？"],["鄭司長明宗：大概20日前後，我們會跟經濟部、高雄市政府還有……"],["許委員智傑：20日前後，先把需求面把它研究出來，我想我問了很多次，部長跟司長應該都很熟了啦！就是說將來，因為需求面是看很遠嘛！現在臺灣AI的硬體製造業是世界最強的，未來AI的設計跟應用，當然我是比較私心啦！不過我們高雄的條件也真的比北部好，所以將來高雄好好地發展AI的設計和應用，我們有機會變成全臺灣最好的一個AI城市，當然基礎點就是這一個海纜站，部長跟司長也都覺得很重要，所以我再一次強調，我本來一直覺得誰去掛鈴鐺啦！你說海纜業者私人公司我們也不方便去找，如果是數發部用公開、公平、公正的方式，你看這裡又有補助，由數發部來尋找跟招標是最好，所以我覺得我的結論是，這個鈴鐺就掛在數發部身上，務必到最後能夠促成海纜站的完成，部長有沒有這樣子一個confirm的信心？"],["黃部長彥男：我們努力啦！我們努力。"],["許委員智傑：部長不敢說沒問題？"],["黃部長彥男：努力就是說我們有規劃書出來，就比較清楚業者的意願，因為最重要還是要有人去營運，蓋完以後要有人去營運。"],["許委員智傑：對，所以我再舉個例子給部長參考，我們鳳山火車站現在已經蓋好了，現在要招標、要招商，如果臺鐵公司的董事長跟我說我就努力招標，但是如果標不出去的話，那個地方空在那裡耶！所以他不能說他要努力，他要跟我說他務必要完成，那個地方如果沒有標出去是不能看的。當然廠商有很多不同的考量，他們當然要賺錢啦！賠錢的生意沒人做，鳳山的好處就是我找了一個三井LaLaport進來，但是他們就變成將來還要跟LaLaport競爭，所以廠商也會猶豫跟卻步，這個都是商場上的問題我們知道，但是臺鐵公司總不能告訴我說我努力，我會跟他說你務必要完成啦！這個空在那裡真的是很難看，所以是務必要完成。","部長既然認為這個真的是國家重大建設，也是整個國家跟城市發展的重要指標，這個東西如果沒有完成，那我們後續的，不要說我高雄的AI首都，包括全臺灣的AI都會受到壓擠跟限制，這是一條寬廣的道路，我們必須去開闢嘛！所以是不是部長可以把這個責任擔在肩上，一定會努力到它完成為止？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我剛剛講的是說，我們第一階段先把規劃弄出來，規劃出來以後再來……"],["許委員智傑：規劃交給專業。"],["黃部長彥男：對，規劃由我們來規劃，然後規劃我們一定會完成。"],["許委員智傑：OK，我只希望有人願意把它擔下來說我一定會努力到最後把它完成，這樣子一個重責大任，這個是國家，不只是高雄哦！這是國家AI基礎建設重要的一個項目，我們務必要讓國家完成這個項目嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：規劃之後會有很多細節出來，包括經費的需求等等等，這個出來以後，我們比較知道應該怎麼執行。"],["許委員智傑：部長，我覺得你比較保守一點。"],["黃部長彥男：因為這的確是一個大工程，所以我需要一些資訊來做所謂的commitment，不過報告委員，沒問題，我們會把這個東西一步一步做好。"],["許委員智傑：你就說好，我們會一步一步把它做到完成，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：我們努力。"],["許委員智傑：部長，我說實在的，這是做部長的一個擔當啦！今天我許智傑是一個立委，問你你會這樣回答，我上一次有問過部長一次，今天如果是賴清德總統問你，說部長你覺得這樣子努力到它完成為止，你肯不肯？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這件事情我們會盡力去把它做完規劃以後，我再跟委員確認這個東西要怎麼做比較好，因為現在還沒看到細節，我個人就是要看到細節才能做最後的確認，但是這個細節包括剛剛講的……"],["許委員智傑：部長，其實我算脾氣很好，我如果是在野黨，這個時候我可以罵得很大聲你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：好啦！委員，我跟你講說我們一定會先把規劃做出來以後，再看後面怎麼進行、怎麼樣安排，再請委員支持，包括預算的爭取，包括各方面都需要再去努力。"],["許委員智傑：連我們主席聽了都想笑，我跟你講，部長，今天不要說你當部長，如果換我當部長，雖然我不是內行的，一個海纜站在你的專業上有那麼困難嗎？推動一個海纜登陸站，如果說今天全臺灣都沒有人設，我一定負責找到人來設，這種很簡單的魄力，這樣也沒辦法？"],["黃部長彥男：我們去找啦！我們去找，但是我還是要看到細部規劃出來，我才知道要找什麼人。報告委員，放心，在我督導之下，我們部會會全力以赴，一定讓你滿意。"],["許委員智傑：好啦！一定讓本席滿意，你直接這樣說，本席就會稍微滿意，好不好？其實不是那麼困難的事，部長，這關係到政治擔當和判斷。"],["黃部長彥男：了解。這是好事，我們會盡力。"],["許委員智傑：不要說你，如果許智傑擔任數發部部長，本席敢保證一定會完成。部長，你就是做到讓本席滿意就對了。好啦！謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員健豪代）：好，謝謝許智傑委員，也謝謝部長。","接下來請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157808","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157808","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083604bc55ebd15ab5251ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1065e42fc9f2fe0e8b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"11:50:17 - 11:58:55","影片長度":"00:08:38","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:50:17+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:58:55+08:00","duration":518,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.55409375,"end":4.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.78034375,"end":13.075343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.864718750000002,"end":11.286593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.41284375,"end":18.289718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.96471875,"end":20.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.85471875,"end":28.988468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.66346875,"end":42.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.11284375,"end":46.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.82534375,"end":50.487218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.46596875,"end":52.664093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.664093750000006,"end":52.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.91721875,"end":66.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.06284375,"end":66.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.07971875,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.46784375,"end":66.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.58596875,"end":75.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.17096875,"end":77.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.22971875,"end":79.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.49534375,"end":82.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.56659375000001,"end":89.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.53159375,"end":94.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.02034375000001,"end":99.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.57659375,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.98534375000001,"end":104.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.42409375000001,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.01471875,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.04846875000001,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.08221875000001,"end":104.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.31846875000001,"end":108.26721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.48659375000001,"end":108.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.29659375000001,"end":110.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.96721875,"end":115.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.77221875000001,"end":122.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.20159375,"end":124.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.61909375,"end":127.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.55096875,"end":136.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.10659375,"end":142.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.65846875,"end":144.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.17284375,"end":150.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.74659375000002,"end":146.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.96534375000002,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.81721875000002,"end":153.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.03659375,"end":153.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.07034375,"end":153.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.37409375000001,"end":153.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.39096875,"end":153.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.54284375,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.40721875,"end":159.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.11159375,"end":162.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.60034375,"end":166.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.73909375000002,"end":168.46034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.55721875,"end":170.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.29534375,"end":180.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.96471875,"end":181.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.92659375000002,"end":182.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.11221875,"end":184.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.74471875,"end":185.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.60096875000002,"end":188.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.50784375,"end":189.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.95471875,"end":194.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.56159375000001,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.61596875,"end":198.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.95346875,"end":198.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.05471875,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.05409375000002,"end":205.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.72034375,"end":210.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.52971875,"end":211.42409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.82909375000003,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.31346875000003,"end":217.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.97096875000003,"end":229.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.37159375000002,"end":223.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.92784375000002,"end":228.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.10471875000002,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.40346875,"end":239.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.43221875,"end":243.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.97596875000002,"end":246.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.19909375,"end":247.80659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.27909375000002,"end":250.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.97909375,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.90721875000003,"end":259.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.12534375,"end":260.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.03659375,"end":270.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.67221875,"end":274.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.99221875,"end":275.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.07221875,"end":279.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.07159375000003,"end":285.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.02846875,"end":289.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.46659375,"end":290.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.69846875,"end":293.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.92596875000004,"end":295.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.59659375,"end":296.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.19971875000005,"end":297.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.07721875000004,"end":355.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.19471875000005,"end":361.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.05034375,"end":376.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.46159375,"end":381.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.59159375,"end":393.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.99971875,"end":389.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.60659375,"end":396.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.94784375,"end":399.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.56346875,"end":402.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.56721875000005,"end":411.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.74721875,"end":414.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.20659375,"end":415.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.24034375,"end":415.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.27409375,"end":415.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.32471875000005,"end":415.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.35846875000004,"end":415.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.42596875000004,"end":421.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.56846875,"end":424.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.89721875000004,"end":428.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.62221875,"end":428.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.75721875000005,"end":428.92596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.84159375,"end":434.62971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.21284375000005,"end":429.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.55846875000003,"end":432.68909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.10221875,"end":439.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.20721875000004,"end":439.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.69221875000005,"end":448.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.77096875,"end":451.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.77471875000003,"end":453.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.91784375000003,"end":456.49971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.07346875,"end":459.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.89159375,"end":465.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.10159375,"end":496.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.57784375000006,"end":500.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.96534375000005,"end":517.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.87096875000003,"end":511.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.9965937500001,"end":518.5322187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.035,"end":28.5,"text":"謝謝主席請黃部長黃部長部長好部長還是我們繼續就打詐的議題再跟你請教這個上一次本席已經提到這個執法我們要公告來實施本席上次質詢我也很關心說那是不是"},{"start":29.758,"end":50.293,"text":"一月一號開始我們就可以開始對於實名制如果這些通路平台沒有做到我們就可以開始進行相關的這個處分那我又看到這個Meta宣稱明年一月底廣告代理商全面落實實名制"},{"start":51.516,"end":74.874,"text":"部長你有看到這個嗎有,他有跟我們討論那就是實際上是從這個月現在12月開始他是分成高風險、中風險跟低風險先從高風險的所謂的廣告的用戶開始進行實名制廣告用戶的實名制這個一月底的意思就是說如果到一月底他還沒有辦法落實廣告"},{"start":76.235,"end":102.077,"text":"用戶的實名制那訴發部要怎麼處理就開始進入那個我們的那個法規就是罰錢就罰則了嘛進入罰則這個數字啊這個是他們自己講的就我上一次我已經擔心了嘛你說1月1號我就跟你講1月1號甘做個狗你看他現在馬上跟你講1月底了嘛那我現在開始又先預測啦希望我的預測不要再審準一次到1月底他又說還沒準備好跟你說2月底"},{"start":103.135,"end":127.415,"text":"市長,我們不能一拖再拖,這個一定要確實,這是他們自己講的那第二個部分,我們的廣告實名制我看一下我們這個政策上面是不是先從大公司開始做起還是說一月底開始只要任何的"},{"start":128.598,"end":132.54,"text":"一月底所有的廣告只要是寫個贊助廣告這個贊助商都要經過實名制好所以除了大廠"},{"start":145.128,"end":147.049,"text":"如果這樣的邏輯沒有抓大放小的話那換言之民眾從2月1號開始就不應該再看到這樣的事情對不對"},{"start":171.325,"end":197.431,"text":"就是如果再有這樣的事情我們就可以溯源就應該是他們要先認證阿如果說他們認證不可能看到了嘛部長因為他要實名制嘛所以舉例嘛這個什麼你現在看到這個這個是賣我們中華職棒假帽T的廣告嘛阿這個球迷每天都跟我檢舉阿"},{"start":199.418,"end":202.089,"text":"我覺得我在網路上呼籲沒什麼用我所以我來呼籲你"},{"start":203.3,"end":228.876,"text":"這是不是從2月1號才講因為這個所謂摩曼頓這個沒有實名這個就假的嘛連摩曼頓這個都是假的對那個報告委員就是如果有這個廣告出現因為他是實名制所以我們一定可以找到賣廣告的這個人當然就可以把他繩之以緩是嘛就是不可能再出現連找這個人都找不到嘛你可以找到這個人他就不敢他就不敢登了嘛對就是這個邏輯就是這個意思所以這個"},{"start":230.117,"end":236.847,"text":"明年二月一號我不希望再看到啦齁這個大家都講好數發部要有一點作為這個這個如果再出現的話這太離譜這個我們現在說實在話"},{"start":240.418,"end":240.478,"text":"蔡其昌"},{"start":270.818,"end":284.904,"text":"能不能真的拿到一件假帽的假的帽T我都懷疑好這是第一個我想先跟部長做一個溝通第二個這個我們網路詐騙通報的這個查詢網我們從10月14號就公測結束對不對那部長公測結束之後檢討起來優缺點是什麼"},{"start":298.208,"end":314.597,"text":"就像委員的簡報講的第一個就是當初公測的時候雖然是一萬兩千多人下載但是那個量就有一個人可以檢舉可能一次好幾百甚至好幾千件所以那個量的確很大"},{"start":315.037,"end":315.217,"text":"蔡其昌"},{"start":344.957,"end":345.017,"text":"蔡其昌"},{"start":366.351,"end":380.847,"text":"所以這些都在更新中我們是希望這個更新完以後在12月底再去公測一次然後再看看這個是不是如果行政院通過我們就會正式上線好所以部長結論就是公測的結果你們覺得效果很好"},{"start":381.613,"end":383.455,"text":"目前我給團隊定的目標是12月底就是說再三個禮拜吧"},{"start":404.833,"end":428.599,"text":"然後但是最後要不要再上就變正式版那要行政院測試通過所以我們現在也在安排好所以正式版你的預估大概什麼時候可以目前希望那就是明年第一季不過這個還是要行政院通過才可以我知道我知道前提都不要講我說你個人的主觀我個人是希望能夠在第一季但是這個這個有些condition就是好"},{"start":428.939,"end":456.112,"text":"那包括一些個資的問題這個都要一併處理因為我們也有接到一些反應說個資檢舉的個資容易在這裡被洩漏這些都要一併處理所以我想打詐就是我一直在講大概我就跟你講過第一次我們基本就跟你講大概在這個台上我只有速發部重中之重我每天看到你就會問打詐我會持續follow這些進度那我持續follow的目的就是要讓你們"},{"start":457.228,"end":482.377,"text":"我其實不是指責你們啦我希望一方面督促你們二方面也當你們的靠山啦讓所有的跟打詐有關的包括業者啦政府其他的部位都知道立法院對這個問題是非常的關心這個是人民心中的痛這個是台灣當前最大的社會問題之一啦所以我們要趕快來加以面對跟解決"},{"start":483.157,"end":499.423,"text":"所以對的事情比如說我剛剛講過這些實名制的這些廣告時間能提早要求業者的配合要落實不可以讓他們在這樣大家一起混啦反正過一天是一天第二個有用的東西像這個通報查詢網"},{"start":501.044,"end":501.565,"text":"謝謝委員的鼓勵 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":742,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時50分）謝謝主席，請黃部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長早。部長，我繼續就打詐的議題跟你請教，上一次本席已經提到這個子法要公告實施，上次質詢我也很關心是不是1月1日開始就可以對於實名制……如果這些通路平臺沒有做到，我們就可以開始進行相關的處分，那我又看到Meta宣稱明年1月底廣告代理商全面落實實名制，部長，你有看到這個嘛？"],["黃部長彥男：有，它有跟我們討論，事實上是從這個月，12月開始，它是分成高風險、中風險及低風險，先從高風險的廣告用戶開始執行實名制。"],["蔡委員其昌：是，廣告用戶的實名制，這個1月底的意思就是說，如果到1月底它還沒有辦法落實廣告用戶的實名制，那數發部要怎麼處理？"],["黃部長彥男：就開始進入我們的法規，就是罰錢。"],["蔡委員其昌：就罰則了嘛！進入罰則。這個數字是他們自己講的，我上一次就已經擔心了，你說1月1日，我就跟你講1月1日做得到嗎？你看它現在馬上跟你講1月底了嘛！那我現在又先預測，希望我的預測不要再神準一次，到1月底它又說還沒準備好，跟你說2月底。"],["黃部長彥男：我們會監督。"],["蔡委員其昌：部長，我們不能一拖再拖，這個一定要確實，這一次是他們自己講的。","第二個部分，我們的廣告實名制，在政策上面是不是先從大型、大公司開始做起？還是說1月底開始，只要是廣告在這些通路平臺上面，上廣告都要實名制，不管你上廣告的公司大跟小？"],["黃部長彥男：1月底是所有的廣告，只要是寫個贊助廣告，這個贊助商都要經過實名制。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，所以除了大廠，就是大的這些銀行什麼之外……"],["黃部長彥男：大、小、中。"],["蔡委員其昌：任何只要你要做廣告都要實名制。"],["黃部長彥男：對，只要上面寫個贊助廣告就是要實名制。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，如果照這樣的邏輯，沒有抓大放小啦？"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，全部。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，如果沒有抓大放小的話，換言之，民眾從2月1日開始就不應該再看到這樣的事情，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：如果再有這樣的事情，我們就可以溯源，應該是他們要先認證啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：對。"],["黃部長彥男：如果說他們認證……"],["蔡委員其昌：不可能看到了嘛！部長，因為它要實名制嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是……"],["蔡委員其昌：所以舉例，你現在看到的這個，這個是賣我們中華職棒假帽T的廣告，球迷每天都跟我檢舉啊！我覺得我在網路上呼籲沒什麼用，所以我來呼籲你，是不是從2月1日來講，因為所謂的摩曼頓，這個沒有實名制，這個就假的嘛！連摩曼頓這個都是假的。"],["黃部長彥男：對，報告委員，如果有這個廣告出現，因為它是實名制，所以我們一定可以找到賣廣告的人，當然就可以把他繩之以法。"],["蔡委員其昌：是嘛！不可能再出現連這個人都找不到嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：可以找到人。"],["蔡委員其昌：你可以找到這個人，他就不敢登了。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：這個邏輯就是這個意思嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：應該是這樣子。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以明年2月1日我不希望再看到，大家都講好，數發部要有一點作為，這個廣告如果再出現的話，這太離譜。我們現在說實在話，再怎麼呼籲也沒有用，它就是到處賣啊！因為臺灣人的需求太高了，大家都想要共同分享國家拿到世界冠軍的喜悅嘛！像這個仿冒到實在是太離譜了！所以我也藉這個機會呼籲一下，讓部長也看一下，現在網路上很夯，但是這個都是仿冒的，都是假的啦！都是仿冒的，能不能出這個產品我都懷疑，能不能真的拿到一件假的帽T我都懷疑，好，這是第一個，我想先跟部長溝通。","第二個，網路詐騙通報查詢網在10月14日公測結束，對不對？部長，公測結束之後，檢討起來優缺點是什麼？"],["黃部長彥男：就像委員的簡報講的，第一個，當初公測的時候，雖然是一萬兩千多人下載，但是一個人檢舉可能一次好幾百件，甚至好幾千件，所以那個量的確很大，我們要去自動化，所以自動化要開始加強。","另外，我們也看到有一些惡意的攻擊，因為這個網確實效果很好，其實剛剛我做業務報告有講過，就是我們這樣上架，1萬2,000人測試，到11月底的時候就已經看到通報將近6萬件，然後下架了1萬5,000件，也就是這個通報讓我們能夠即時下架1萬件假廣告，確實有它的效果，但是也因為這樣的關係，可能詐騙集團或怎樣，他們就會來做惡意的攻擊，包括上傳一些有的沒的，像色情網頁等等，這種東西我們也要自動處理。還有一個就是介面讓它更好用，所以這些都在更新中，我們是希望更新完以後，在12月底再去公測一次，如果行政院通過，我們就會正式上線。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以部長，結論就是公測的結果你們覺得效果很好。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：但是有一些缺點，這個缺點不一定是網路的缺點，可能是對手會做什麼回應的缺點。"],["黃部長彥男：惡意的攻擊。"],["蔡委員其昌：那你們會來加以改善。"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以部長，我想請教，什麼時候要再公測一次？什麼時候要再上線？"],["黃部長彥男：目前我給團隊訂的目標是12月底。"],["蔡委員其昌：12月底。"],["黃部長彥男：對，就是再3個禮拜吧！但是最後要不要變正式版，那要行政院測試通過，所以我們現在也在安排。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，所以正式版你預估大概什麼時候可以？"],["黃部長彥男：目前希望是明年第1季，不過這個還是要行政院通過才可以。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我知道、我知道，前提都不用講，我說你個人的主觀。"],["黃部長彥男：我個人是希望能夠在第1季，但是這個有一些condition就是……"],["蔡委員其昌：好，包括一些個資的問題，這個都要一併處理。"],["黃部長彥男：都要處理，沒錯。"],["蔡委員其昌：因為我們也有接到一些反映，說檢舉的個資容易在這裡被洩漏，這些也都要一併處理。"],["黃部長彥男：這個都是問題之一。"],["蔡委員其昌：我想打詐，我一直在講嘛！我就跟你講過，第一次我們見面我就跟你講，大概在這個臺上數發部是重中之重啦！我每天看到你就會問打詐，我會持續follow這些進度，我持續follow的目的其實不是指責你們啦！我希望一方面督促你們，二方面也當你們的靠山，讓所有與打詐有關的，包括業者及政府其他部會都知道立法院對這個問題是非常的關心，這個是人民心中的痛，這個是臺灣當前最大的社會問題之一，我們要趕快來加以面對跟解決，所以對的事情，譬如說我剛剛講過，實名制的這些廣告時間能提早，要求業者的配合要落實，不可以讓他們再這樣大家一起混，反正過一天是一天。","第二個，有用的東西，像這個通報查詢網，公測完缺點改善，再公測一次再缺點改善，那就要趕快來實施，如果行政院有困難，我們立法院也可以質詢行政院嘛！所以我希望大家一併努力，把這件事情做好，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，謝謝部長。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員的鼓勵，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員。","接下來有請許智傑委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157807","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157807","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083601559b6c08ea59a34ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a106854671cd304e1f855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"11:40:41 - 11:49:59","影片長度":"00:09:18","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:40:41+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:49:59+08:00","duration":558,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.8240937500000001,"end":3.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.029093750000001,"end":14.745968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.15096875,"end":39.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.619718750000004,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.39096875,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.166593750000004,"end":91.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.49346875,"end":105.55034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.72971875,"end":92.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.73596875000001,"end":107.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":108.36846875,"end":110.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.20346875000001,"end":113.54909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.13971875,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.71221875,"end":174.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.53096875,"end":177.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.47159375,"end":177.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.64034375,"end":180.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.65721875,"end":177.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.67409375,"end":177.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.75846875000002,"end":177.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.46284375000002,"end":200.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.03346875000003,"end":243.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.87909375,"end":216.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.15971875000002,"end":229.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.96971875000003,"end":230.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.30096875,"end":243.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.40221875,"end":243.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.48659375000003,"end":247.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.52034375000002,"end":243.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.01346875000002,"end":290.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.21409375,"end":259.75409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.07409375000003,"end":310.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.18909375000004,"end":314.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.76659375,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.28096875,"end":369.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.11534375,"end":351.13221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.14909375,"end":351.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.72284375000004,"end":351.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.31096875000003,"end":370.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.69034375,"end":373.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.06534375,"end":390.33284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.29534375000003,"end":387.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.33284375000005,"end":390.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.48471875,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.80784375,"end":402.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":402.63471875000005,"end":428.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.84159375,"end":428.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.87534375,"end":441.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":441.97034375000004,"end":479.16284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.72409375,"end":490.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.97534375000004,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.02909375,"end":516.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.2709687500001,"end":517.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":517.46909375,"end":556.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.33659375,"end":556.9228437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.189,"end":2.492,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請黃部長黃部長"},{"start":12.139,"end":23.488,"text":"委員好部長好部長根據我們這個提交的一個預算報告我們114年度編列數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫的預算是1億9千多萬那因為這個計畫是從113年到116年是4年的計畫但是我們從這個今年執行的狀況來看今年好像執行率只有14.5%截至8月份"},{"start":39.761,"end":46.495,"text":"那不曉得這個問題出在哪裡?這樣會不會影響到後續這三年的一個執行一個進度?我請那個國際市的市長來做個說明"},{"start":50.782,"end":77.011,"text":"謝謝委員給我的時間有關於預算的諮詢率的部分因為我們在執行的過程中會有涉及到非常多的利害關係者必須要做充分的討論所以這諮詢率的整個開發的期程就會比較壓縮一點可是我們在這個壓縮過程中我們也希望說開發出來的東西是確保能夠非常的安全"},{"start":77.691,"end":104.609,"text":"那所以我們目前的諮詢率原則上在今年年底會達到基本的門檻值那明年後年的預算的執行就不受到整個專案執行期程的影響以上說明好部長市長因為這個案子剛有提到因為是需求很複雜而且必須要整合很多多方的一個利害關係人的一個意見那但是當時我們在執行的時候難道這些問題沒有事先來做規劃嗎"},{"start":106.591,"end":111.936,"text":"這個包含這個風險評估嗎?為什麼現在還在討論說這個執行率的問題會出現這樣的一個狀況?這個這裡面有幾個重要計畫像數位匹甲計畫確實要牽涉到跟其他部會的溝通那所以這個的確在執行上需要討論跟溝通的那個過程會比較複雜跟比較冗長"},{"start":129.633,"end":129.993,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":150.306,"end":173.662,"text":"我們都支持但是就是說還是要提醒說因為現在預算會期我們所有的立委大家也都會關注我們過去的執行的狀況跟未來你們便利的預算是不是合理執行上會不會有問題因為這個會影響到我們整個施政的方針跟我們這個百姓的一些福祉所以包含我們現在跨境數據這個授權系統的部分目前這個還有問題嗎"},{"start":175.592,"end":177.733,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":200.886,"end":215.654,"text":"對 這個本期還是要提醒齁 這個不要 當時我們都推出這個這麼好的一個政策結果就跟數位身份證一樣 到最後將無疾而終 這個也被外界很多的指引齁 這個我們既然要講要做就應該要有具體的一個節奏啦齁 這點再提醒一下部長"},{"start":216.254,"end":241.436,"text":"我想數位創新關鍵的基礎建設計畫是有助於提升我們的一個基礎設施和促進一個跨境合作跟加速數位轉型的一個重大意義那這部分還是請部長我們團隊再強烈努力那針對行政院在去年訂定的新世代打擊炸氣的一個策略可能領1.5版那我知道我們數位部預計在明年就要推動的這個2.0版"},{"start":244.218,"end":271.494,"text":"不巧目前部長這個我們執行的進度是怎麼樣對就是在數就是我們這個2.0版我們訴發部被賦予一個主導的角色叫防詐那這邊委員所列的就是我們防詐目前會執行的一些措施那裡面結果很重要很重要就是我們要對所謂的網路廣告平台商就是現在所講的常在講的像Meta裡面的Facebook、Instagram、Google然後Line"},{"start":271.834,"end":271.894,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":291.317,"end":291.897,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":309.524,"end":332.116,"text":"所以這個方面我相信在目前已經減少大概九成了我們目前已經看到這個詐騙廣告在這些平台已經減少九成那明年應該會減少更多所以這個應該在這一方面我們會看到其他的像遊戲點數啊這個第三萬支付都有精進措施然後這個所謂的網路平台所謂的遊戲平台都有一些也都看到效果"},{"start":332.896,"end":335.578,"text":"對部長我想包含第三方支付跟遊戲點數詐騙這些案子的處理當然我想我們還是需要公視來協力合作"},{"start":351.852,"end":352.172,"text":"謝謝委員長,我要提醒"},{"start":370.711,"end":387.869,"text":"好,不然那我請教一下,針對這個AI的這個網路主動式的那個防禦關鍵技術這個案子那目前我們在便利的預算上面明顯我們感覺到計畫的目標跟成果鏈結不足那這部分我們怎麼樣來強化這個部分"},{"start":391.252,"end":411.24,"text":"這個計畫是我們補助資安院那資安院已經有根據這個這個把一些所謂KPI預計的KPI已經做了更明顯的說明那是不是請這個那報告委員最主要這個計畫大概就是說他駭客現在在用生人式AI進行攻擊之後他在一些技術或"},{"start":411.98,"end":412.22,"text":"﹚徐富癸"},{"start":428.883,"end":452.928,"text":"那我們有沒有什麼具體的一些指標可以來直接反映所謂的一個AI的研發的一個水準包括有一些國際專利的一些申請數量還有技術商品化的一個進度這些有沒有比較具體的一個東西有報委員我們大概在第一年補助在資安院的話我們在後續的相關的跟他所謂簽署補助契約條件的部分會把委員今天所"},{"start":454.008,"end":455.028,"text":"徐富癸徐富癸"},{"start":479.355,"end":495.785,"text":"目標二提到的推動友善的一個AI資安研發生態包含辦理這個技術交流然後材料的開發部分那這部分是不是有同樣有一個量化的一個達到的一個程度是這個也會未來也會有一個量化的一些指標跟數據"},{"start":497.146,"end":514.255,"text":"我想這個AI的一個網路主動防禦關鍵的技術研究這個是我們提升這個治安技術升級的很重要的一步但是現在既有的目標設定成果鏈結跟效益的一個量化本身還是認為還有加強的空間這部分請部長跟我們團隊繼續來努力謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":517.577,"end":533.11,"text":"那最後我想剛剛我們很多委員都提到我們這個職場霸凌這個案子那我想這個也是行政院之前有一直有請相關部會一定要審慎處理的一個重要的一個作為那我想"},{"start":533.83,"end":534.03,"text":"徐富癸"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":707,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（11時40分）謝謝主席，有請黃部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：部長好。部長，根據你們提交的預算報告，114年度編列「數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫」預算一億九千多萬，因為這個計畫從113年到116年是4年的計畫，但是從今年執行的狀況來看，今年截至8月份執行率只有14.5%，不曉得問題出在哪裡？會不會影響到後續這3年的執行進度？"],["黃部長彥男：我請國際司的司長來做個說明。"],["莊司長盈志：謝謝委員給我時間，有關於預算執行率的部分，因為我們在執行過程中會涉及到非常多的利害關係者，必須要做充分的討論，所以整個開發期程就會比較壓縮一點，可是在這個壓縮過程中，我們也希望開發出來的東西能夠確保非常的安全，所以目前的執行率，原則上在今年年底會達到基本的門檻值，明年、後年的預算執行就不受到整個專案執行期程的影響，以上說明。"],["徐委員富癸：好，部長、司長，剛剛有提到，因為這個案子需求很複雜，而且必須要整合多方利害關係人的意見，但是當時我們在執行的時候，難道這些問題沒有事先規劃嗎？包含風險評估。為什麼現在還在討論執行率的問題，會出現這樣的狀況？"],["黃部長彥男：這裡面有幾個重要計畫，像數位皮夾計畫確實牽涉到跟其他部會的溝通，所以的確在執行上，需要討論跟溝通的過程會比較複雜跟冗長，當然我也是希望能夠儘速追上原來預計執行的進度，因為畢竟這裡面有幾個計畫是我們數位的關鍵基礎建設，有滿多創新在裡面，這個如果推動得出來的話，對政府的效率會有很高的提升，所以我個人對這個計畫有滿多的期許，當然執行上……"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我們都支持啦！但是還是要提醒，因為現在是預算會期，所有的立委都會關注過去執行的狀況跟未來你們編列的預算是不是合理，執行上會不會有問題，因為這也會影響到整個施政方針跟百姓的福祉嘛！包含現在跨境數據授權系統的部分，目前還有問題嗎？跨境數據授權系統已經完成評選……"],["莊司長盈志：跟委員說明，這個就是我們目前在開發的數位皮夾，數位皮夾目前的階段已經有一些雛形的版本，目前已經開始召開包含政府間還有產業間整個數位皮夾的應用方式及後續的發展規劃，所以執行上不會有問題。"],["徐委員富癸：本席還是要提醒，不要當時我們推出這麼好的一個政策，結果就跟數位身分證一樣，到最後這樣無疾而終，這個也被外界很多的質疑，我們既然講了要做，就應該要有具體的節奏，這點再提醒部長。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員提醒。"],["徐委員富癸：我想「數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫」有助於提升我們的基礎設施，還有促進跨境合作及加速數位轉型的一個重大意義啦！這部分還是請部長跟我們團隊加強來努力。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員的指導。"],["徐委員富癸：針對行政院在去年訂定的「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」，我知道數位部預計在明年就要推動2.0版，不曉得目前執行的進度怎麼樣？"],["黃部長彥男：對，在2.0版我們數發部被賦予一個主導的角色叫防詐，委員這邊所列的就是我們防詐目前會執行的一些措施，其中有一個很重要很重要，就是我們要對所謂的網路廣告平臺商，就是現在常常在講的，像Meta裡面的Facebook，還有Instagram、Google和LINE，目前很多詐騙集團用的一些管道我們要做適當的管理，這裡面包括網路實名制，目前在推動上有滿大的進展，預計明年年初就會在這方面有所謂的廣告實名制，然後會讓這些平臺上的詐騙廣告，包括假名人廣告會大量減少，所以這個已經預計。","其實目前像Google跟LINE已經全部配合，他們已經執行實名制，那Facebook大概在明年年初以前會全面配合，所以這方面目前已經減少九成，我們看到詐騙廣告在這些平臺已經減少九成，明年應該會減少更多。至於其他的，像遊戲點數、第三方支付都有精進措施，所謂的遊戲平臺也都看到效果，整體來講，這個防詐的工作，在源頭的防詐工作我們會繼續努力地加強，希望從源頭就防止詐騙集團，這是目前我們的做法。"],["徐委員富癸：對，部長，包含第三方支付跟遊戲點數詐騙這些案子的處理，我們還是需要公私來協力合作。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["徐委員富癸：在溝通的過程裡面，當然部長也很辛苦啦！但是我覺得還是要加快時程，包含這些電信業者也好，還有銀行端的部分，怎麼樣來有效整合，我們還是要有具體操作的一些量化成績出來。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，我請教一下，針對AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術這個案子，目前在編列的預算上面，明顯感覺到計畫的目標跟成果鏈結不足，我們怎麼樣來強化這個部分？"],["黃部長彥男：這個計畫是我們補助資安院，資安院對預計的KPI已經做了更明顯的說明，是不是請司長做說明？"],["蔡司長壽洤：報告委員，最主要這個計畫大概是說駭客現在用生成式AI進行攻擊之後，它的一些技術或時效上會更加地提升，所以我們大概這個部分就會委託資安院再去做，用生成式AI的方式當防守方，然後用AI的技術讓攻擊方在時效或效能上能夠達到一致。"],["徐委員富癸：那我們有沒有什麼具體的指標可以直接反映AI研發的水準？包含國際專利的申請數量，還有技術商品化的進度，這些有沒有比較具體的一個東西？"],["蔡司長壽洤：有，報告委員，我們大概在第一年補助資安院的話，我們在後續跟它簽註補助契約條件的部分，會把委員今天所垂詢的這個部分納進去。當然現在資安院大概有一些技術移轉的規定，如果未來在AI主動式防禦的部分有具體的成效，如果符合資安院相關辦法，我們會把相關的技術轉移給國內的資安產業或中小企業使用，所以這個部分我們都會列入未來的KPI。"],["徐委員富癸：另外，目標二提到推動友善的AI資安研發生態，包含辦理技術交流、材料的開發部分，這部分是不是同樣有量化達到的程度？"],["蔡司長壽洤：是的，這個未來也會有量化的一些指標跟數據。"],["徐委員富癸：好，我想這個AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究是我們提升資安技術升級很重要的一步，但是現在既有的目標設定跟成果鏈結，還有效益的量化，本席認為還有加強的空間，這部分請部長跟我們團隊繼續來努力。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員提醒。"],["徐委員富癸：最後，剛剛很多委員都提到職場霸凌這個案子，這個也是行政院之前一直請相關部會一定要審慎處理的一個重要作為，我想部長給我的感覺一直是很溫暖，尤其來自產業界，你的領導統御的思維一定不一樣，所以在這件事情上面，我們希望部長能夠正面回應，然後提出一個具體的改革方案，捍衛基層公務同仁的尊嚴，請部長加油，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員提醒，謝謝。"],["徐委員富癸：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員。","接下來有請蔡其昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157806","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836097d82dbeab436f97ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1068c3f6bbd0a8feaf75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:31:43 - 11:40:21","影片長度":"00:08:38","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:31:43+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:40:21+08:00","duration":518,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.00534375,"end":4.806593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.907218750000002,"end":9.531593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":13.480343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.47159375,"end":17.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.51721875,"end":23.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.044093750000002,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.01846875,"end":26.777843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.63846875,"end":27.840968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.840968750000002,"end":28.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.44846875,"end":28.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.254093750000003,"end":32.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.127218750000004,"end":36.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.712843750000005,"end":44.462843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.85096875,"end":48.681593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.900968750000004,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.562843750000006,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.541593750000004,"end":55.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.414718750000006,"end":57.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.439718750000004,"end":65.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.91096875000001,"end":70.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.92284375,"end":73.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.99846875,"end":76.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.86284375000001,"end":90.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.44721875,"end":90.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.70034375,"end":90.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.75096875,"end":90.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.03784375000001,"end":104.50409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.35221875,"end":110.64659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.23721875000001,"end":112.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.06409375000001,"end":117.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.70534375000001,"end":112.92471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.68784375000001,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.79534375,"end":134.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.93846875,"end":141.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.46034375000002,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.68784375,"end":148.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.12596875,"end":157.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.03159375,"end":166.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.22471875000002,"end":164.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.15284375000002,"end":169.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.50659375,"end":170.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.69221875000002,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.26096875000002,"end":178.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.78346875,"end":201.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.46596875,"end":187.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.21471875,"end":201.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.23159375,"end":201.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.33284375000002,"end":213.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.44221875000002,"end":203.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.64346875,"end":212.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.80784375000002,"end":213.09471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.49971875,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.82034375,"end":217.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.05596875,"end":218.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.18659375000001,"end":220.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.41409375,"end":224.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.07159375,"end":228.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.51846875,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.39471875,"end":246.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.20346875,"end":251.48534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.44784375,"end":248.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.39284375000003,"end":249.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.48534375000003,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.37159375000005,"end":282.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.38846875,"end":277.54034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.47221875,"end":283.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.46346875,"end":286.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.37846875,"end":287.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.32346875,"end":292.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.87971875,"end":296.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.24221875,"end":305.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.05909375000005,"end":311.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.42096875000004,"end":325.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.33159375,"end":318.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.83221875000004,"end":327.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.65471875000003,"end":346.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.12471875,"end":345.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.47034375000004,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.48721875,"end":351.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.36409375,"end":353.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.89971875000003,"end":359.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.42596875000004,"end":362.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.55659375000005,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.26471875000004,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.35284375000003,"end":399.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.96846875,"end":400.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.15409375,"end":402.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.98909375000005,"end":403.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.32659375000003,"end":404.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.67659375000005,"end":405.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.35159375,"end":405.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.71846875,"end":407.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.61284375,"end":408.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.03471875,"end":410.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.46034375000005,"end":425.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.99409375000005,"end":427.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.21721875000003,"end":432.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.44409375000004,"end":436.06409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.05971875,"end":439.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.96221875000003,"end":445.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.43471875,"end":442.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.03659375,"end":458.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.97596875000005,"end":461.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.32596875,"end":464.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.15659375,"end":470.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.40034375000005,"end":473.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.55596875000003,"end":476.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.64846875,"end":480.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.27221875000004,"end":483.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.22534375000004,"end":486.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.33034375000005,"end":490.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.59971875,"end":491.90346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.32096875,"end":497.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.97846875000005,"end":500.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.94409375000004,"end":512.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.84534375,"end":515.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.25846875,"end":515.8997187499999}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.13,"end":28.258,"text":"有請說發部黃部長黃部長部長好部長我們先來看到第一張投影片請問部長這兩張圖差別在哪裡兩張圖下面有多個可以看到更多的說明可以什麼樣的說明就是這個什麼東西不見了"},{"start":30.445,"end":52.719,"text":"就是上網點擊人數不見了點擊人數不見了那11月13日的時候黃國昌在我們交通委員會質詢的時候有針對素材署樂齡好幫手網站點閱率過低的問題提出質詢那隨後本席辦公室在11月28日上該網站上面查詢點擊率的時候發現點擊率消失了不見了"},{"start":53.559,"end":69.578,"text":"本席立即向素材署詢問為什麼點擊率會消失呢那素材署給本席的回覆是部長您參考因為使用者習慣不同所以會讓個別網站的點擊率過低所以個別的點擊率呢他不適合作為找尋平台資源的參考依據請問部長"},{"start":70.879,"end":72.44,"text":"為什麼原本在網站上的點擊率被拿下來了呢?"},{"start":91.087,"end":110.389,"text":"因為剛剛就像他那邊所講的就是事實上我們整個的效率單看單一個點因為有4000多個網頁可以看所以如果單看某一個當然它的數目可能不高可是整體來看它是超過8萬人次委員在你的說法如果認為個別的點局不適合呈現那為什麼一剛開始要放在網站上面"},{"start":111.297,"end":114.618,"text":"我個人認為說這個也不叫遮蔽就是說我們希望看到是整體的效益而不是單疊各個網頁的效益所以才會講說那我們是不是把這個展現的方式做點調整"},{"start":130.865,"end":141.067,"text":"是展現還是想要逃避?是要逃避國會的監督嗎?沒有逃避因為我們還是會展現所有的點擊率所以所有點擊率剛剛講超過8萬人次這個還在上面這個沒有消失"},{"start":141.579,"end":168.751,"text":"這沒有消失可是剛才圖片上面看到我們確實點擊率是整體的網頁的那個點擊率那個在在這個這個那部長你可以再上去網頁上面看看現在都是看不到了那對於數發部本來就是要促進高齡者生活便利而建置的網站本心給予肯定還有支持可是遇到這個網頁點閱成效不彰的時候應該是要去面對吧需要需要去我我還有想辦法提升民眾的使用率我們要去promotion就是說我們要去做多點做點宣傳"},{"start":169.751,"end":174.137,"text":"所以你們自己有沒有去參考大數據去分析高齡者他們的興趣然後還有"},{"start":175.707,"end":200.923,"text":"相關的愛好的文章還有問題你們有去做分析嗎那個因為剛剛講就是這個東西是在我們是在10月10月21日上線所以所以這個資料的update一直在增加所以在黃委員黃國昌委員實際上我們算是11月初的事情所以上線不到一個月那個是那時候show出來的number那現在我們這個這個經過這就多一個月現在"},{"start":201.443,"end":223.958,"text":"是還是要請部長還有數位發展部就是被委員諮詢之後也不要用這種逃避的心態然後去遮蔽這個點閱率那也請數位發展部跟數位產署研議那如何有效推廣網站之對策還有另外點閱率為全民的監督政府之依據不應該被隱藏好那我們再來看到針對昨天的霸凌事件這邊要先請問部長"},{"start":226.707,"end":252.14,"text":"公務人員的考積法第6條規定規定年中考積以100分為滿分分為甲乙丙丁四等請問部長公務人員評評中有混蛋這個等級嗎那個報告委員這個事情我們正在內部調查中如果有不適當就是說調查結果出來在11月11號出來後我們會做立即處理所以這個所以沒有這個等級嗎為什麼有基層員工爆料有長官很喜歡用混蛋來評評公務人員所以我我"},{"start":252.86,"end":277.117,"text":"這樣的評比是出於第一兩三嗎?這不應該有這種語言出現所以我就說這個是第一個我們需要有幾個部分一個就是說以後我會跟這個我的這個部門的主管講就是這個我們特別講到說我們要有鐵的機率但是也要愛的教育就是說跟這個我們的這個所謂的部門的同仁溝通的時候要特別把愛放在心上所以如果有愛的心"},{"start":277.677,"end":278.278,"text":"打差是什麼意思?"},{"start":288.773,"end":311.491,"text":"報告委員這個我不清楚但是我們在調查就會把它弄清楚現在這是數發部的職場文化嗎因為有長官很喜歡給基層打X當然不是我們沒有這樣的一個那個絕大部分的主管跟這個我們部門同仁的溝通目前絕大部分啊這個都都都都就是說目前並沒有太多並沒有任何的抱怨但只有少數那這我們在調查"},{"start":312.432,"end":325.402,"text":"因為11月20日的時候院長就要求各部會要來做清查然後數位發展部司長就被爆料了那本席對於數位發展部發覺自己內部能力的問題更是要打上一個大大的差還是部長你要不要給自己打一個差"},{"start":328.718,"end":345.535,"text":"我剛剛特別跟委員講就是說有一些不當的言語跟不當的行為我們調查之後我們會做處置那當然這個是非常不恰當的那我這邊剛剛也跟其他委員說我特別為這件事情做個道歉就是這個我們會事後處理"},{"start":347.489,"end":376.525,"text":"部長您昨天有回應已經成立專案小組了然後調查報告什麼時候出來12月11號以前會出來12月11號那部長您對數發布發生辦理案件部長您掌握多少了解多少那個我在在那個11月22號在院長在在在要求調查所以我已經交代我們的部門的那個主管說我們開始要做內部調查那這個過程中當然發生了這些所謂的這些申訴案我們當然就要立刻處理"},{"start":377.125,"end":401.652,"text":"那當然就是說至於說這個申訴我們剛剛講我們請了所謂的我們有請了幾個外部的專家包括法律專家跟心理輔導專家從各個層面去評估這個事情的發生的原因背景跟他的行為那評估報告出來後我們就會立刻處理所以市長那本期希望這不是只是一個走一個流程跟走一個形式然後就吵吵結案了這邊問部長一個問題部長你今天的點心買了嗎部長你吃點心嗎點心對"},{"start":406.752,"end":432.725,"text":"通常不是我為什麼會問這個問題是因為原本規定開會喔便當或是點心喔只要一提供即可可是啊就有長官卻無視已經原本有會議便當了還強勢要求公務員再提供點心導致公務員他不能違背這個法規下的前提他只能自己操腰包然後吸收買單部長您知道嗎這個也是在調查裡面這也在調查裡面那部長您知道師長的一個月薪水多少錢嗎師長的薪水"},{"start":440.511,"end":445.436,"text":"市長有人可以替部長做回答嗎?一定是不少啦。那為什麼在數位發展部還有長官要基層公務人員替市長來做買單?"},{"start":460.371,"end":471.966,"text":"這是不當的行為這是不當的行為喔那本席知道這個就是這只有一個感受啦稀有廖天丁劫富濟貧啊今有鄭市長劫貧濟急柴蒙趁中華對市長趁點心喔"},{"start":474.605,"end":500.399,"text":"那再來看到還有聽說師長的肺活量極差未來有沒有要接近徐明春部長開演唱會還是明年在中華隊資格經典賽的時候要不要請師長去球場運用他強而有力的肺活量替我們中華隊來做應援呢就是我們這個要謹守這個公務人員應有的規範所以這個事情我們會部長您知道有咆哮下屬的這件事嗎"},{"start":502.054,"end":503.537,"text":"好這請部長去了解請部長加油以上謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":636,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（11時31分）謝謝主席，首先先祝主席生日快樂。有請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：部長好。我們先來看第1張投影片，請問部長，這兩張圖差別在哪裡？"],["黃部長彥男：兩張圖下面，可以看到更多的說明。"],["邱委員若華：什麼樣的說明？"],["黃部長彥男：就是這個……"],["邱委員若華：什麼東西不見了？"],["黃部長彥男：上網點擊人數不見了。"],["邱委員若華：點擊人數不見了。11月13日黃國昌在我們交通委員會質詢的時候，有針對數產署「樂齡好幫手」網站點閱率過低的問題提出質詢，所以本席辦公室在11月28日上該網站查詢點擊率，結果發現點擊率被消失了，不見了，本席立即向數產署詢問為什麼點擊率會消失，數產署給本席的回復是，部長，請您參考，因為使用者習慣不同，會讓個別網站的點擊率過低，所以個別的點擊率不適合作為找尋平臺資源的參考依據，請問部長，這個說法你相信嗎？你可以接受嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我回去有做一個瞭解，目前整個服務的點擊率有超過八萬多人次，它沒有平均分配在我們四千多個的……"],["邱委員若華：那為什麼原本在網站上的點擊率被拿下來了呢？"],["黃部長彥男：就像它這邊所講的，事實上我們整個的效率，因為有四千多個網頁可以看，所以你如果單看某一個，當然它的數目可能不高，可是整體來看，它是超過八萬人次。"],["邱委員若華：部長，因為照你的說法，如果認為個別的點擊率不適合呈現，為什麼一剛開始要放在網站上面？"],["黃部長彥男：這個就是當初他們……"],["邱委員若華：那為什麼又是在黃國昌委員質詢之後才遮蔽點擊率？這是不是鴕鳥心態？"],["黃部長彥男：我個人認為這個也不叫遮蔽，我們希望看到的是整體的效益，而不是各個網頁的效益，所以才會說我們是不是把展現的方式做一點調整。"],["邱委員若華：是展現還是想要逃避？是要逃避國會的監督嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：不需要，沒有逃避，因為我們還是會展現所有的點擊率，所有的點擊率剛剛講超過8萬人次，這個還在上面，沒有消失。"],["邱委員若華：這沒有消失，可是剛才從圖片上面看到，確實點擊率是……"],["黃部長彥男：有整體網頁的點擊率，那個在……"],["邱委員若華：部長，你可以再去網頁上面看一看，現在都看不到了。對於數發部本來就是要促進高齡者生活便利而建置的網站，本席給予肯定還有支持，可是遇到網頁點閱成效不彰的時候，應該是要去面對吧？"],["黃部長彥男：需要去……"],["邱委員若華：還有想辦法提升民眾的使用率。"],["黃部長彥男：對，我們要去promotion，我們要去做多一點宣傳跟教育。"],["邱委員若華：請問你們自己本身有沒有參考大數據，去分析高齡者的興趣、愛好的文章還有相關的問題？你們有去做分析嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛講這個東西我們是在10月21日上線，所以資料的update一直在增加，那黃國昌委員的質詢是11月初的事情，當時上線不到一個月，那時候show出來的number，現在又多經過一個月，現在……"],["邱委員若華：所以還是要請部長還有數發部，被委員質詢之後不要用這種逃避的心態去遮蔽點閱率，也請數發部跟數產署研議如何有效推廣網站之對策。"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個是重點。"],["邱委員若華：另外，點閱率為全民監督政府之依據，不應該被隱藏。"],["黃部長彥男：好。"],["邱委員若華：我們再看到，針對昨天的霸凌事件，這邊要先請問部長，我們來看公務人員考績法第六條規定，規定年終考績以一百分為滿分，分為甲、乙、丙、丁四等，請問部長，公務人員評比中有「混蛋」這個等級嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這件事情我們正在內部調查中，如果有不適當，就是說調查結果出來，在12月11日出來以後我們會立即處理，所以這個……"],["邱委員若華：所以你們有這個等級嗎？為什麼基層員工爆料，有長官很喜歡用「混蛋」來評比公務人員？這樣的評比是出於立意良善嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：不應該有這種語言出現啦！所以有幾個部分，一個就是以後我會跟我們部門的主管講，我特別講到我們要有鐵的紀律，但是也要愛的教育，與部門的同仁溝通的時候，要特別把愛放在心上，所以如果有愛在心……"],["邱委員若華：有愛的教育，有鐵的紀律，然後還有「混蛋」這個評價。另外，我要再問到……"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，就不會有「混蛋」這種句子。"],["邱委員若華：再來，我要請教部長一個問題，打叉是什麼意思？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這個我不清楚，但是我們在調查，我會弄清楚現在……"],["邱委員若華：這是數發部的職場文化嗎？因為有長官很喜歡給基層打叉。"],["黃部長彥男：當然不是，我們沒有這樣的職場文化，絕大部分的主管與部門同仁的溝通，目前並沒有任何的抱怨，只有少數，那這個我們在調查。"],["邱委員若華：因為11月20日的時候，院長就要求各部會要來清查，然後數發部司長就被爆料了，本席對於數發部發覺自己內部問題的能力更是要打上一個大大的叉，還是部長你要不要給自己打一個叉？"],["黃部長彥男：剛剛特別跟委員講，有一些不當的言語跟不當的行為我們調查之後會處置，當然這個是非常不恰當的，我剛剛也跟其他委員講過，我特別為這件事情道歉，這個我們事後會處理。"],["邱委員若華：部長，您昨天有回應，已經成立專案小組，然後調查報告什麼時候出來？"],["黃部長彥男：12月11日以前會出來。"],["邱委員若華：12月11日，那部長對於數發部發生霸凌案件，您掌握多少？瞭解多少？"],["黃部長彥男：我在11月22日院長要求調查的時候，我已經交代我們部門主管要開始做內部調查，在這個過程中發生這些申訴案，我們當然就要立刻處理。至於說這個申訴，我們有請了幾個外部的專家，包括法律專家及心理輔導專家，從各個層面去評估這件事情發生的原因、背景跟他的行為，評估報告出來以後我們就會立刻處理，所以我們現在在等評估報告。"],["邱委員若華：是，部長，本席希望這不是走一個流程跟走一個形式然後就草草結案了。"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，就是我們……"],["邱委員若華：這邊問部長一個問題，部長，你今天的點心買了嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：蛤？"],["邱委員若華：部長，你吃點心嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：點心？"],["邱委員若華：對。"],["黃部長彥男：通常不吃。"],["邱委員若華：我為什麼會問這個問題？是因為原本規定開會，便當或是點心擇一提供即可，可是就有長官卻無視，原本已經有會議便當了，還強制要求公務員再提供點心，導致公務員在不能違背法規的前提下，他只能自己掏腰包吸收買單，部長，您知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個也是在調查裡面。"],["邱委員若華：這也在調查裡面。部長，您知道司長一個月薪水多少錢嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：司長的薪水，報告委員，這個我不是很清楚。"],["邱委員若華：現場有人可以替部長回答嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：這個應該跟主計確認，人事處。"],["邱委員若華：一定是不少啦！好，沒關係，部長，為什麼在數發部還有長官要基層公務人員替司長來買單？"],["黃部長彥男：這是不當的行為。"],["邱委員若華：這是不當的行為，本席知道這件事只有一個感受啦！昔有廖添丁劫富濟貧，今天有鄭司長劫貧濟己；采盟蹭中華隊，司長蹭點心。還有，聽說司長的肺活量極佳，未來有沒有要借鏡許銘春部長開演唱會？還是明年在中華隊經典賽資格賽的時候，要不要請司長去球場運用他強而有力的肺活量，替我們中華隊來做應援呢？"],["黃部長彥男：我們要謹守公務人員應有的規範，所以這件事情我們會……"],["邱委員若華：部長，您知道有咆哮下屬這件事嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：一樣是在調查中，如果有咆哮下屬也是一個不當的行為，這都是屬於不當行為的一種，我們所謂霸凌裡面的不當行為，這個都是屬於不應該有的現象。"],["邱委員若華：好，再請部長去瞭解，請部長加油，以上，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。","接下來有請徐富癸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157805","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157805","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083603371db1a25518bc4ca1a359a53f99ce1b44eee46cb88a1062f620ca07494474b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"11:22:53 - 11:31:23","影片長度":"00:08:30","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。\n【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:22:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:31:23+08:00","duration":510,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-2-23-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.7353437500000002,"end":4.1822187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.599718750000001,"end":12.653468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":13.868468750000002,"end":16.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.14659375,"end":17.766593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.57659375,"end":26.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.47409375,"end":27.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.00971875,"end":30.405968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.74346875,"end":33.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":33.173468750000005,"end":33.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.20721875,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":33.46034375,"end":33.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.47721875,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.88221875,"end":33.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":33.89909375,"end":33.915968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.915968750000005,"end":34.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":34.00034375,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.034093750000004,"end":34.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":34.30409375,"end":34.337843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.337843750000005,"end":34.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.46846875,"end":36.649718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.345343750000005,"end":40.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.547843750000006,"end":41.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.454718750000005,"end":43.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.09159375,"end":45.104093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.59346875,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.74909375,"end":50.487218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.24659375,"end":58.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.40221875,"end":54.570968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.790343750000005,"end":55.634093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.815343750000004,"end":57.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.127218750000004,"end":60.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.696593750000005,"end":61.641593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.67096875,"end":65.48909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.48909375000001,"end":65.70846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.26534375,"end":67.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.49721875,"end":68.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.54346875,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.13409375,"end":69.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.58534375,"end":71.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.58096875000001,"end":73.08284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.40346875,"end":75.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.25971875,"end":75.85034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.50409375000001,"end":78.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.32659375,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.31784375000001,"end":84.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.31721875000001,"end":86.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.76846875000001,"end":88.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.81409375000001,"end":94.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.90221875,"end":94.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.40846875000001,"end":96.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.91034375000001,"end":99.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.96471875,"end":101.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.54659375,"end":105.38159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.57971875000001,"end":109.54971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.02221875000001,"end":111.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.96284375,"end":112.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.70096875,"end":116.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.24471875,"end":117.73409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.29096875,"end":118.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.89846875,"end":119.86034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.82221875,"end":123.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.33221875000001,"end":126.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.99846875000001,"end":130.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.96409375000002,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.37721875,"end":136.87034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.59596875,"end":140.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.71784375000001,"end":142.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.60346875000002,"end":146.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.63659375,"end":152.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":150.80909375000002,"end":151.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":152.12534375,"end":152.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.54721875,"end":153.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":153.23909375000002,"end":153.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":153.79596875000001,"end":172.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.01221875000002,"end":174.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.02909375000002,"end":174.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.69534375,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.32221875000002,"end":218.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.41471875000002,"end":219.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.28784375,"end":222.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.05534375000002,"end":222.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.34221875,"end":223.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.80596875,"end":226.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.91534375,"end":228.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.90659375,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.02034375000002,"end":237.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":237.61409375000002,"end":238.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.28471875000002,"end":242.22096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":242.65971875000002,"end":243.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.11534375000002,"end":243.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":244.43159375000002,"end":248.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.98409375000003,"end":247.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.48596875,"end":247.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.48159375,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":248.49846875000003,"end":248.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.13471875000002,"end":256.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.93596875000003,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.37846875,"end":263.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.07409375000003,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.41096875,"end":271.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.54534375000003,"end":272.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.40596875,"end":276.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.96659375,"end":278.24909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.95784375,"end":279.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.61159375,"end":281.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.07534375,"end":288.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.66096875,"end":293.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.26346875,"end":296.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.99721875,"end":300.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.43534375,"end":302.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.57846875,"end":305.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.59909375,"end":307.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.18534375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.12159375000005,"end":312.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.82596875,"end":316.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.07846875,"end":318.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.20471875000004,"end":323.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.12784375,"end":327.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.97971875,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.80221875,"end":331.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.74284375,"end":332.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.26159375000003,"end":335.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.84346875,"end":337.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.59409375,"end":340.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.41221875,"end":343.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.44971875000005,"end":347.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.12846875,"end":350.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":349.34346875,"end":349.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":350.45721875000004,"end":350.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":351.23346875000004,"end":351.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":351.77346875,"end":359.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.08471875000004,"end":359.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.28659375,"end":367.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.39534375000005,"end":369.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.03221875,"end":370.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.95596875,"end":374.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":375.29721875,"end":376.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.53346875,"end":383.49846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.25846875,"end":380.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.08909375,"end":386.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.48971875,"end":385.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.10971875,"end":390.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.27784375000005,"end":393.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":393.31971875000005,"end":397.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":397.96034375000005,"end":398.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.55096875000004,"end":399.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":399.74909375000004,"end":399.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.76596875,"end":399.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":399.78284375000004,"end":403.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.56284375,"end":404.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":404.76096875,"end":409.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.18221875,"end":412.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.16471875,"end":417.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.07534375,"end":418.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.18909375000004,"end":420.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":420.26909375,"end":420.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.69096875,"end":421.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":422.37846875,"end":423.62721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.23909375000005,"end":425.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.46659375,"end":430.54596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.47409375,"end":433.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":433.65096875,"end":439.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.47284375000004,"end":441.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":441.46409375,"end":443.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.68721875000006,"end":446.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.71221875000003,"end":447.28596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":447.28596875000005,"end":447.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.77534375000005,"end":447.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":447.79221875,"end":447.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.80909375000005,"end":447.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":447.92721875,"end":447.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.97784375000003,"end":447.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":447.99471875,"end":448.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.02846875,"end":448.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":448.04534375000003,"end":448.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.06221875000006,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.21409375,"end":450.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":448.68659375000004,"end":448.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.88909375000003,"end":448.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.67784375,"end":453.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.71534375000005,"end":457.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.28846875000005,"end":460.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.22471875,"end":464.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.54909375000005,"end":464.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.03846875000005,"end":469.22346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.01659375,"end":473.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.86409375000005,"end":475.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.24346875000003,"end":478.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":478.42034375000003,"end":478.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.45409375,"end":483.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.97721875,"end":479.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.97221875,"end":485.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.77784375000005,"end":486.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.19971875000005,"end":488.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.91659375,"end":491.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.51096875,"end":493.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.41784375000003,"end":497.62409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":497.62409375000004,"end":499.07534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":498.23159375000006,"end":507.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":501.52221875000004,"end":502.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":503.66534375000003,"end":504.23909375000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.929,"end":21.135,"text":"剛才那個調查局打電話來今天是我們召委魯明哲委員的生日來點掌聲好不好你幹嘛講調查局啊有點壓力我哪有那麼厲害祝我們召委生日快樂長命百歲早生貴子"},{"start":28.129,"end":36.414,"text":"生完了生完了?好是不是請我們黃志偉謝謝黃部長黃部長對不起部長我接續上一次的質詢就是那個馬祖5G的涵蓋率目前在中華電信"},{"start":51.788,"end":80.082,"text":"涵蓋率是90%,是不是?大概各村莊都已經涵蓋了昨天我看你們的官網94吧?是不是?上網率蠻不錯的蠻不錯的那麼這是南竿地區大概有超過90那在遠船的部分"},{"start":81.66,"end":96.993,"text":"遠傳部分南竿大概只有四圍村,可能老家記一下。那麼四圍村還收不到,北竿的大概我講遠傳的部分,"},{"start":106.616,"end":132.479,"text":"北竿各村都通,但是村外,村落以外的都收不到。舉光那邊除了清凡、大屏、福鎮涵蓋率尚可,其他村莊也都收不到,全無。東雲鄉就是樂華村跟中柳村涵蓋率尚可,其他地區也收不到。"},{"start":133.447,"end":146.203,"text":"我想在其他地區,可能我們有阿兵哥、有軍人、防衛部、指揮部、營部、聯部。我想馬祖地區我們軍民一家同早一命。"},{"start":148.471,"end":174.799,"text":"這個部隊的部分也勞駕能夠幫忙一下好不好部長先跟委員報告我們在12月2號有開了針對這個問題有開了一個會那我們在偏鄉就是說在預算方面我們變成2.25億就希望能夠改進剛剛講到馬祖這個5G的涵蓋那細節是不是請市長再進一步說明好你說明一下勒"},{"start":177.035,"end":202.124,"text":"謝謝委員我們上次11月22日委員執行之後我們12月22日立刻就召集了三大針對馬祖地區的建設那所以剛剛我們部長有說我們其實114年前截有2.25億然後呢現在馬祖有125台5G基地台跟委員說明5G所以會不好是因為它後面的背後後面的後船不夠強大所以我們現在這個海南也積極在建制然後我們"},{"start":203.184,"end":216.314,"text":"請你明年會再加設9站的基地台以馬祖人口來講總共125加9這個人比例非常高我們會再加再再謝謝委員今天提供這些資訊我們會再請業者再加我講的是遠傳的部分還有臺灣大哥大府臺灣大哥大都未達40%未達40%"},{"start":224.861,"end":252.52,"text":"那麼當然剛才部長也講了113年10月補助5G業者建置15340座的5G基地台嗎?全國那是全國全國應該有2萬台了吧?3萬了還2萬?基地台啊?全國10萬台補助的部分是1萬不錯啦我們目前普及率應該全世界台灣地區算最高的"},{"start":254.295,"end":261.401,"text":"114年編任預算2.25億,剛剛部長講了補助電信事業加速在偏遠地區設置5G基地台現在5G時代已經來臨了,離島無感1421億的標金只進不出你看目前"},{"start":283.12,"end":302.218,"text":"我們4G的手機大概都已經買不到了市面上沒有了都5G的但是卻還在沿用4G時代的4G的普及率比較高5G的很像還不到達一半還沒有到達一半那我是覺得112年2月2號"},{"start":306.636,"end":332.379,"text":"跟8號啊我們海嵐中段兩條嘛是不是海嵐中段兩條那麼大概是中共漁船啊還是不明的船隻啊破壞了嘛齁那麼政府的機關金融交易齁醫療服務及交通運輸等運作我們受到影響這個到月底才恢復欸到月底啊"},{"start":333.611,"end":356.645,"text":"所以這個時間沒辦法即時的轉換提升馬祖籍、離島網路的韌性、強化低軌衛星提供全天候的24小時全時段的服務這個是很重要的,部長你覺得呢?目前我們有低軌衛星有8個站、8個盤子在馬祖"},{"start":362.338,"end":390.234,"text":"那這個低軌衛星引入馬祖通訊的耐性提升也拜託速發布你們現在是不是在全時的服務?我不曉得你雖然已經完成了全台低軌衛星的網路的涵蓋但是還沒有到達24小時來提供服務所以本席想請教一下截至目前為止全台灣的衛星通訊"},{"start":391.435,"end":404.72,"text":"是不是已經24小時全職在服務?就是12月底前就會全台24小時服務什麼時候開始?12月底就是等那個灣位那邊確認開通應該他目前給我們的數的那個時間是12月底部長那個上次講到我們第四條海欄"},{"start":413.28,"end":442.683,"text":"第四條海欄你們要補助中華電要補助多少錢大概?1.4億1.4億?會不會太少了一點?因為我看你們預算編了很多啊NCC所有的經費預算都已經在你們都已經在書發布了嘛所以你這個如果不去處理啊那個我們繼續爭取額外預算來補助這個海底電能1.4億能不能再增加一些?我們去爭取我們會去爭取"},{"start":444.741,"end":468.871,"text":"因為我現在就少三一點嘛是不是?你補助多一點我就少三一點嘛因為這個大家對尤其NCC啊現在任務我看起來已經慢慢逐漸在萎縮了啦齁所有的功能都已經在速發部了那你速發部的角色當然相對的持重啦齁那你中華電信雖然是官民股都有啦齁"},{"start":470.489,"end":490.219,"text":"問題是他們有沒有那麼多錢我是很懷疑是不是請數法部這邊在經費補助的部分能夠再做一些檢討稍微給他調整一下我們加速第四條海欖線的進行尤其海欖在中斷的時候你們低軌衛星怎麼樣進場怎麼做"},{"start":494.511,"end":503.346,"text":"你們密切的注意一下,也做一些演練好不好?我想今天大概就走到這個議題好不好?謝謝部長,祝我們各位生日快樂,謝謝!"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":582,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（11時22分）剛才調查局打電話來，今天是我們召委魯明哲委員的生日，來點掌聲好不好？"],["主席：哇！你幹嘛講調查局，有點壓力啊！"],["陳委員雪生：我哪有這麼厲害。祝我們召委生日快樂。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：長命百歲、早生貴子。"],["主席：生完了。"],["陳委員雪生：是不是請黃部長，謝謝。"],["主席：黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我接續上一次的質詢，馬祖5G的涵蓋率，目前中華電信涵蓋率是90%吧，是不是？大概各村莊都已經涵蓋了，昨天我看你們的官網上網率94%是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["陳委員雪生：蠻不錯的，蠻不錯的。這是南竿地區大概有超過90%了，在遠傳的部分，可能勞駕記一下，南竿大概只有四維村還收不到；北竿大概各村都通了，但是村外、村落以外的收不到；莒光那邊，除了青帆跟大坪、福正涵蓋率尚可，其他村莊也都收不到，全無；東引鄉就樂華村跟那個中柳村涵蓋率尚可，其他地區也收不到，我講的其他地區可能我們有阿兵哥軍人、有防衛部、指揮部、營部、聯部，我想馬祖地區我們軍民一家、同島一命，部隊的部分也勞駕你們能夠幫忙一下，好不好？部長。"],["黃部長彥男：好，先跟委員報告，我們在12月2號針對這個問題有開了一個會，我們在偏鄉預算方面編了2.25億，就希望能夠改進剛剛講馬祖5G的涵蓋，細節是不是請司長再進一步說明？"],["陳委員雪生：好，你說明一下。"],["鄭司長明宗：謝謝委員，上次11月22號委員質詢之後，我們12月2號立刻就召集了三大針對馬祖地區建設的會議，剛剛部長有說，我們其實114年前瞻有2.25億，然後現在馬祖有125臺5G基地臺。跟委員說明，5G所以會不好，是因為他後面Backhaul後傳不夠強大，所以我們現在海纜一直積極在建置。其實我們明年會再加設9站的基地臺，以馬祖人口來講，總共125加9，這個比例非常高，謝謝委員今天提供這些資訊，我們會請業者再加強。"],["陳委員雪生：剛才我講的是遠傳的部分，還有台灣大哥大部分。"],["鄭司長明宗：是，這兩家……"],["陳委員雪生：台灣大哥大都未達40%啦，未達40%。當然剛才部長也講了，113年10月補助5G業者建置1萬5,340座的5G基地臺嘛……"],["黃部長彥男：那是全國。"],["陳委員雪生：全國應該有2萬臺了吧？3萬了還2萬？基地臺啊！"],["黃部長彥男：全部10萬臺，補助的部分。"],["陳委員雪生：不錯啦，我們目前普及率，全世界應該臺灣地區算最高的啦！114年編列預算2.25億，剛才部長講了嘛，補助電信事業加速在偏遠地區設置5G的基地臺嘛！現在5G時代已經來臨了，離島無感，你1,421億的標金只進不出啦，你看目前我們4G的手機大概都已經買不到了嘛，市面上沒有了，都5G的，但是卻還在沿用4G時代的，4G的普及率比較高，5G的很像還沒到達一半。再來，112年2月2號跟8號，我們海纜中斷兩條嘛，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["陳委員雪生：海纜中斷兩條，大概是中共漁船還是不明的船隻破壞了嘛，政府機關、金融交易、醫療服務及交通的運輸等運作，我們受到影響，到月底才恢復耶，到月底啊！所以這個時間沒辦法及時的轉換啦！提升馬祖暨離島網路韌性，強化低軌衛星通信，提供全天候24小時全時段的服務，這個是很重要的，部長，你覺得呢？"],["黃部長彥男：目前我們低軌衛星有8個盤子在馬祖……"],["陳委員雪生：是。低軌衛星引入，馬祖通訊的韌性提升，也拜託數發部，你們現在是不是在全時的服務啊，我不曉得？"],["黃部長彥男：現在，對。"],["陳委員雪生：你雖然已經完成了全臺低軌衛星網路的涵蓋，但是還沒有到達24小時提供服務……"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["陳委員雪生：所以本席想請教一下，截至目前為止，全臺灣的衛星通訊是不是已經24小時全時服務？"],["黃部長彥男：12月底前就會全臺24小時服務。"],["陳委員雪生：什麼時候開始？"],["黃部長彥男：12月底，就是等OneWeb那邊確認開通，目前給我們的時間是12月底。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，上次講到我們第4條海纜，第4條海纜你們大概要補助中華電多少錢？"],["黃部長彥男：1.4億。"],["陳委員雪生：1.4億哦？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["陳委員雪生：會不會太少了一點？因為我看你們預算編了很多，NCC所有的經費預算都已經在數發部了，所以你這個如果不去處理……"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們繼續爭取額外預算來補助海底電纜。"],["陳委員雪生：1.4億，能不能再增加一些？"],["黃部長彥男：我們去爭取，我們會去爭取。"],["陳委員雪生：因為我這樣就少刪一點，是不是？"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個我們會盡力爭取。"],["陳委員雪生：你補助多一點我就少刪一點，尤其NCC現在的任務我看起來已經慢慢逐漸在萎縮，所有的功能都已經在數發部了，你數發部的角色當然相對的吃重，那中華電信雖然是官民股都有，問題是他們有沒有那麼多錢，我是很懷疑啦！是不是請數發部在經費補助的部分能夠再做一些檢討？稍微給它調整一下，我們加速第4條海纜線的進行。"],["黃部長彥男：好，我們再……"],["陳委員雪生：尤其海纜在中斷的時候，你們低軌衛星怎麼樣進場、怎麼做？你們密切地注意一下，也做一些演練，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，這個我們會進行。"],["陳委員雪生：我想今天主要是這個議題，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝部長。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：好，祝我們召委生日快樂，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝雪生委員。","接下來有請邱若華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":286,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-23-13","speakers":["魯明哲","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","何欣純","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","蔡其昌","許智傑","游顥","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","葛如鈞","洪孟楷","吳春城","葉元之","黃國昌","林楚茵","劉建國","羅美玲"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢；二、審查114年度中\n央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算（僅進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00005"}}},{"id":"157804","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157804","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083608a225587c32eea6e4a6acd55cc740f50b44eee46cb88a10650fc6cff46c367e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:51:18 - 13:03:32","影片長度":"00:12:14","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:51:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T13:03:32+08:00","duration":734,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.4822187500000001,"end":12.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.007843750000003,"end":13.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.066593750000003,"end":22.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.765968750000003,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.43971875,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.63284375,"end":36.93659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.03784375,"end":37.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.24034375,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.252843750000004,"end":44.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.81721875,"end":45.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.31909375,"end":50.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.563468750000006,"end":54.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.85784375,"end":65.28659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.82659375,"end":70.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.20971875000001,"end":72.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.97721875,"end":77.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.01034375,"end":79.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.84971875000001,"end":83.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.62971875000001,"end":90.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.62034375,"end":90.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.75096875,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.03784375000001,"end":112.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.67159375000001,"end":112.95846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.29596875,"end":116.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.16034375000001,"end":118.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.28659375000001,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.74096875000001,"end":140.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.62221875,"end":133.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.87909375,"end":135.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.24596875,"end":136.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.24159375000002,"end":137.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.02159375000002,"end":142.40534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.99596875,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.76284375,"end":152.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.86784375000002,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.58034375,"end":160.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.44471875000002,"end":165.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.14846875,"end":169.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.94534375,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.85659375,"end":172.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.69596875000002,"end":172.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.71284375000002,"end":172.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.91534375,"end":172.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.96596875,"end":174.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.78846875000002,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.94034375,"end":175.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.02471875,"end":185.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.04971875,"end":177.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.38596875000002,"end":193.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.97534375,"end":196.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.46846875,"end":202.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.42534375000002,"end":203.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.49284375000002,"end":205.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.97784375,"end":214.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.49096875,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.56596875000002,"end":223.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.04659375000003,"end":227.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.79284375,"end":231.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.23096875000002,"end":236.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.60159375,"end":242.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.31784375,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.84846875000002,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.96221875,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":252.10971875,"end":262.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.63971875000004,"end":262.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.74096875000004,"end":263.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.02784375000005,"end":265.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.37346875000003,"end":267.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.55034375,"end":274.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.09346875,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":276.96659375,"end":282.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.68721875,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.14284375,"end":283.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.32846875,"end":283.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.85159375,"end":285.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.42096875000004,"end":285.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.48846875000004,"end":285.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.69659375000003,"end":304.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.09284375000004,"end":308.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.64096875,"end":310.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.75034375,"end":318.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.46221875000003,"end":324.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.14471875000004,"end":328.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.80659375000005,"end":334.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.79721875,"end":345.36096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.00346875,"end":340.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.64846875,"end":348.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.20846875,"end":349.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.22534375000004,"end":352.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.24221875,"end":351.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.06034375,"end":352.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.29221875,"end":353.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.30909375000005,"end":355.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.98409375,"end":354.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.84034375000005,"end":360.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.52346875,"end":360.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.54846875000004,"end":363.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.80159375,"end":362.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.26096875,"end":367.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.20971875000004,"end":371.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.61409375000005,"end":380.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.28784375000004,"end":392.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.91471875,"end":394.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.36159375,"end":396.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.06596875,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.17471875,"end":406.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.12346875000003,"end":416.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":416.69159375000004,"end":416.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.65346875,"end":417.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.67034375000003,"end":418.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.35784375000003,"end":428.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.87534375,"end":428.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":428.94284375,"end":428.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.97659375,"end":429.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":429.82034375,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.97221875,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.00596875,"end":430.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.02284375000005,"end":431.64284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.92534375,"end":433.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.27034375000005,"end":445.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":445.61534375,"end":448.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.86846875000003,"end":448.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.24346875000003,"end":461.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.24971875000006,"end":470.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.38346875,"end":475.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.45034375000006,"end":479.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.37846875,"end":477.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.96846875000006,"end":485.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.76096875,"end":497.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.70846875,"end":499.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.73346875000004,"end":500.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.42096875000004,"end":503.71596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.01971875000004,"end":512.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.96346875,"end":515.7647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0265937500001,"end":514.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.66784375,"end":515.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.0390937500001,"end":515.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.7647187499999,"end":515.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.95034375,"end":516.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.62534375,"end":517.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.64221875,"end":516.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.06409375,"end":517.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.4015937500001,"end":519.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.4353437500001,"end":517.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.8190937500001,"end":519.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.47721875,"end":519.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.5447187500001,"end":519.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":519.57846875,"end":522.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":519.59534375,"end":520.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.99596875,"end":522.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.86909375,"end":522.9197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":522.9197187500001,"end":526.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.0547187500001,"end":525.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.0247187500001,"end":526.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.04159375,"end":526.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.3959687500001,"end":526.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.4297187500001,"end":526.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.9697187500001,"end":527.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.8472187500001,"end":527.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.9653437500001,"end":528.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.03284375,"end":533.0615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.6359687500001,"end":529.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.69471875,"end":532.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.26409375,"end":536.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.4153437500001,"end":544.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.72721875,"end":541.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.7690937500001,"end":542.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.92471875,"end":552.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.0715937500001,"end":550.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.15596875,"end":551.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.80096875,"end":569.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":569.08971875,"end":593.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.27284375,"end":585.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.7609687500001,"end":602.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.03846875,"end":600.1397187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.5990937500001,"end":605.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.11346875,"end":606.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.2947187500001,"end":607.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.3115937499999,"end":609.6740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.9228437500001,"end":612.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.15471875,"end":619.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.4709687500001,"end":616.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.84534375,"end":622.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.5959687500001,"end":629.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.72159375,"end":636.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.7547187499999,"end":633.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.49721875,"end":636.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.06659375,"end":636.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.1003437500001,"end":636.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":636.21846875,"end":636.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":636.9778437500001,"end":639.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.9397187500001,"end":639.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.9140937500001,"end":644.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.77409375,"end":658.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.0390937500001,"end":655.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":655.13534375,"end":655.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":659.0334687500001,"end":664.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.75409375,"end":666.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.1884687500001,"end":669.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.6984687500001,"end":670.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.93034375,"end":672.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.73159375,"end":676.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.52846875,"end":679.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.1397187500002,"end":684.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":685.29096875,"end":693.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.2178437500002,"end":696.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.8334687500001,"end":700.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.1028437500001,"end":703.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":703.9209687500002,"end":705.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.9965937500001,"end":709.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.7765937500001,"end":711.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.3078437500001,"end":717.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.8090937500001,"end":719.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":718.6528437500001,"end":719.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.59346875,"end":723.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.0447187500001,"end":722.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.23034375,"end":722.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.3484687499999,"end":723.1415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.4284687500001,"end":723.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":725.5209687500001,"end":728.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.0522187500001,"end":728.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.86221875,"end":733.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.47,"end":11.194,"text":"主委好我想請教一下南韓總統尹錫悅宣布戒嚴你覺得他這麼做是為了守護自由的憲政體制嗎?"},{"start":15.151,"end":44.187,"text":"跟委員報告因為這不是陸委會的執掌因為昨天的訊息也太快雖然我們一直在關注你做一個政府部門的首長你認同這種用解嚴的方式來去實現他自己個人的政治的想法嗎如果以我個人的話我們是站在自由民主的憲政體制不能隨意變更非常好嘛所以坦白講你覺得這種做法叫守護自由憲政體制不是吧是在破壞自由憲政體制吧"},{"start":44.867,"end":50.149,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":74.022,"end":76.183,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":91.69,"end":115.356,"text":"所以他在跟所謂的解嚴離開戒嚴時代有很大的關聯但我今天看起來我覺得民進黨的朋友對解嚴還蠻喜歡的所以竟然會去附和南韓的所謂的總統的戒嚴對戒嚴還蠻喜歡的那我跟你講我們就從幾件事情來看我等一下就教一下我們的主委你覺得任何的兩岸交流都是統戰嗎?"},{"start":117.639,"end":141.9,"text":"跟委員報告,雖然在大量的交流裡面,當然不排除有統戰,乃至於滲透。任何的交流都是統戰嗎?沒有沒有,不是這樣。謝謝你嘛。就是說當然不排除啦。不排除跟任何當然是有差別,程度的差別。好啦,我問到我要的答案啦。謝謝你答點沈伯陽啊。這句話沈伯陽講的啊。"},{"start":143.052,"end":165.249,"text":"我告訴你但是我跟你講今天齁我還是要幫沈博王講一句話我覺得沈博王其實講的也不能說完全不對因為現在的陸委會跟海基會我就覺得你們基本上剛剛像黃國昌講的我覺得是在妨礙交流維作你們主業的感覺至少兩岸的交流在民進黨執政是越來越倒退沒錯吧這一點你總不能否認吧"},{"start":166.532,"end":171.997,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":194.022,"end":195.724,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":215.563,"end":242.535,"text":"我也不知道為什麼今天覺得馬龍可愛就等於中共統戰成功他另外一個我在問你齁你覺得今天馬龍來台齁是不是就等於會混淆中共齁他存在血洗台灣流島不留人的企圖阿第一個阿中共是不是要血洗台灣流島不留人齁再討論啦馬龍來台跟中共血洗台灣流島不留人到底有什麼關聯我的邏輯不好請你開示一下"},{"start":243.362,"end":248.206,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":267.603,"end":269.689,"text":"一間我說句實在話你要講什麼表達遺憾啊對啊有有有學生有一個學生講到中國台北"},{"start":275.131,"end":277.753,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":306.191,"end":334.241,"text":"所以我跟你講今天是你們准的然後來這裡玻璃心單單一個學生講一句話台灣就要沉了沈博洋的流島不由人就好恐怖了你現在這邊是我其實對主委搞不清楚你前面感覺是不認同沈博洋你後半段又開始認同他你到底是主張哪一部分你到底是希望兩岸交流還是兩岸不交流啊跟委員報告我們也希望兩岸的交流能正常健康有序的進行"},{"start":334.827,"end":345.213,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":364.315,"end":366.036,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":381.328,"end":391.813,"text":"可是我今天從結果論來講你剛才也承認啊兩岸交流當然說因素不完全在我們這邊啦這我認同啦但從結果論來講兩岸交流是越來越差勁啦不是嗎至少比起馬政府時代沒錯吧我先不講責任歸屬啦兩岸之間是越來越交流成績越來越倒退嘛沒錯吧"},{"start":403.653,"end":405.716,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":417.671,"end":421.853,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":445.723,"end":448.104,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":478.251,"end":500.547,"text":"我直接講個結論當你今天你們民進黨一天到晚兩岸交流是統戰我跟你講我今天最快的建議很簡單海峽交流基金會改成海峽不交流基金會最快預算砍成零兩岸不交流最符合沈伯陽要的東西當然我不會到這種程度我也要講的是什麼"},{"start":501.508,"end":515.541,"text":"啊 造謠啊 謝謝你啊 謝謝你啊來來來來來 我知道你沒有講交流是統戰嗎?你說任何交流都是統戰不是嗎?你講任何交流統戰你講這句話要收回去啊?"},{"start":517.662,"end":523.984,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":544.997,"end":548.579,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":569.447,"end":573.27,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":586.377,"end":589.28,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":604.28,"end":609.144,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":623.706,"end":628.007,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":645.564,"end":651.185,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":673.766,"end":678.848,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":701.159,"end":704.861,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":728.973,"end":729.314,"text":"接下來請楊瓊英委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2946,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時51分）主席，有請主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：主委好。我想請教一下，南韓總統尹錫悅宣布戒嚴，你覺得他這麼做是為了守護自由的憲政體制嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為這不是陸委會的職掌，且昨天的訊息也太快，雖然我們一直在關注……"],["羅委員智強：身為一個政府部門的首長，你認同這種用戒嚴的方式去實現他自己個人的政治想法嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果以我個人的話，我們是站在自由民主的憲政體制，不能隨意變更。"],["羅委員智強：非常好嘛！所以坦白講，你覺得這種作法叫做守護自由憲政體制？不是吧？而是在破壞自由憲政體制，沒錯吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們對這個事情還不太了解，沒辦法進一步評論。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，我告訴你，你這種模模糊糊的態度，也難怪民進黨黨團會去聲援尹錫悅，發文寫說：南韓總統尹錫悅為了守護自由憲政的體制，所以宣布了戒嚴。那你說跟你的立場沒關係，跟你的立場大有關係！請問，陸委會為什麼會成立？淵源是什麼？就是解嚴之後，開放兩岸大陸探親，對不對？沒錯吧？76年解嚴，開放兩岸探親，然後77年陸委會成立。對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為兩岸之間民眾的交流衍生了許多權利義務的關係，需要有一個規範……"],["羅委員智強：沒錯嘛，所以它跟所謂的解嚴、離開戒嚴時代有很大的關聯。但我今天看起來，我覺得民進黨的朋友對戒嚴還蠻喜歡的，竟然會去附和南韓總統的戒嚴，對戒嚴還蠻喜歡的。那我跟你講，我們從幾件事情來就教一下主委，你覺得任何的兩岸交流都是統戰嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，雖然在大量的交流裡面，當然不排除有統戰、乃至於滲透……"],["羅委員智強：任何的交流都是統戰嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有、沒有，不是這樣……"],["羅委員智強：謝謝你……"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然不排除啦，也有這些案例……"],["羅委員智強：「不排除」跟「任何」當然是有差別，程度的差別。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，我問到我要的答案了，謝謝你打臉沈伯洋，這句話是沈伯洋講的。但是我今天還是要幫沈伯洋講一句話，我覺得沈伯洋講的其實也不能說完全不對，因為現在的陸委會跟海基會，我就覺得你們基本上就像剛才黃國昌講的，有以妨礙交流為你們主業的感覺，至少兩岸的交流在民進黨執政時是越來越倒退，沒錯吧，這一點你總不能否認吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想這個不能只歸責自己啦！"],["羅委員智強：當然、當然啊！我先講結果論嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是我們還是致力於推動對等尊嚴、健康有序的交流。"],["羅委員智強：您辛苦了！您辛苦了！整個民進黨在反交流，我們沈伯洋都說交流是所謂的統戰，結果你們今天自甘為被統戰部嗎？還是海峽交流基金會自甘為被統戰交流基金會嗎？莫名其妙的主張嘛！","那我再問你一個問題，如果臺灣有人覺得馬龍可愛，那是不是就代表中共統戰成功了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們不這樣認為啦！"],["羅委員智強：謝謝你嘛！我跟你講，今天你身為陸委會主委，你這個立場是對的。這又是沈伯洋黑熊部隊講的啊！我也不知道為什麼今天覺得馬龍可愛就等於中共統戰成功。另外，我再問你，你覺得今天馬龍來臺是不是就等於會混淆中共存在血洗臺灣、留島不留人的企圖？第一個，中共是不是要血洗臺灣、留島不留人，這個再討論。馬龍來臺跟中共血洗臺灣、留島不留人有什麼關聯？我的邏輯不好，請你開示一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們當初同意馬英九基金會推動這個交流……"],["羅委員智強：你都知道我要問什麼了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是從很正向的角度去看。"],["羅委員智強：非常好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是現在出現了傷害臺灣人民情感的一些言論，我們也是表達遺憾。"],["羅委員智強：表達遺憾啦！我告訴你，你們准的啊！我先跟你講一件事情，我說句實在話，你要講什麼表達遺憾，對啦！有一個學生講到「中國台北」，我們的國格就立刻崩盤啦？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是這樣，因為他引發了臺灣社會不同意見的對立，也傷害臺灣人民的情感。"],["羅委員智強：那我就跟你講，我更要砍你陸委會的預算跟海基會的預算！照你的邏輯標準，你竟然不能預見我們沈伯洋大師的預言：來這邊會造成留島不留人、血洗臺灣，來這邊害得中共統戰成功，來這邊兩岸的交流就是統戰！你陸委會照沈伯洋的標準就淪為統戰部啊！多可怕啊！所以我跟你講，今天這個是你們准的，然後來這裡玻璃心，單單一個學生講一句話，臺灣就要沉了！沈伯洋的留島不留人就好恐怖了！我其實搞不太清楚主委，你前面感覺是不認同沈伯洋，你後半段又開始認同他，你到底是主張哪一部分？你到底是希望兩岸交流還是兩岸不交流？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們也希望兩岸的交流能正常健康有序的進行，當然中國大陸對臺灣的統戰……"],["羅委員智強：中國大陸對臺灣的統戰……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還是要透過一定的程序把它導正。"],["羅委員智強：我先跟你講，中國大陸對臺灣的統戰跟企圖，臺灣民眾知之甚深啦！這麼多年來……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得中國大陸當然會有政治企圖……"],["羅委員智強：但是，如果……"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以我們面對交流就是要透過我們在場各位同仁的努力，把它導正成正常健康……"],["羅委員智強：當然啊！非常好啊！可是，我要先跟你講，好好勸勸那位黑熊老大，他講了一些很奇怪、莫名其妙的話。","再來我要跟你講，今天兩岸之間，說真的，陸委會的存在跟海基會的存在就是為交流而衍生的兩個單位，可是我今天從結果論來講，你剛剛也承認了，兩岸交流當然因素不完全在我們這邊，這我認同，但從結果論來講，兩岸交流是越來越差勁，不是嗎？至少比起馬政府時代，沒錯吧？我先不講責任歸屬，兩岸之間交流的成績是越來越倒退，沒錯吧？但是我跟你講，我就不懂，這又是我不懂的邏輯，如果你是一個企業管理者，你的部門成果越來越差，請問你給這個部門的預算是越來越高還是越來越低？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，雖然實際上的交流可能不像以前，但是我們還有一個重要的責任，就是要維護我們國家安全、維護我們在……"],["羅委員智強：如果要維護國家安全，陸委會改成國安會就快一點，改成國安局也快一點。"],["主席：照問題回答、照問題回答。他問你在這種情況下，你預算應該高還是低……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們在兩岸目前的現況下，其經營成本可能會更高，因為我們沒辦法跟中國大陸直接對話……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，陸委會主委我來當好了，我把兩岸調成零，經費就漲3,000倍，哇！多開心啊！因為兩岸我做得越爛，代表需要的經費就越高，預算爭取是這樣爭取的啊？最誇張的就是你們海基會啦！短短一年竟然可以增加7,000萬的捐助，增加40%，你當全國老百姓是「盤仔」是不是？你怎麼會想像到會准你這個預算過呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，因為時間有限，我直接講個結論，當今天你們民進黨一天到晚說兩岸交流是統戰，我跟你講，我有個最快的建議，很簡單，海峽交流基金會改成海峽不交流基金會最快，預算砍成零、兩岸不交流最符合沈伯洋要的東西啊！當然我不會到這種程度啦！"],["沈委員伯洋：造謠啦！"],["羅委員智強：我要講的是什麼？"],["沈委員伯洋：造謠！"],["羅委員智強：造謠？謝謝你啊！來、來、來，你沒有講交流是統戰嗎？"],["沈委員伯洋：我是說對……"],["羅委員智強：你說任何交流都是統戰，不是嗎？"],["沈委員伯洋：你是被新聞媒體……"],["羅委員智強：你講任何交流都是統戰，你有沒有講這句話？要收回去啊？"],["沈委員伯洋：我說對中國來說，自己回去看新聞標題啦！"],["羅委員智強：你有沒有講這句話？"],["沈委員伯洋：不要利用言論免責權！"],["羅委員智強：少來！少來！你有沒有講留島不留人？你有沒有講覺得馬龍可愛就是中共統戰成功？"],["沈委員伯洋：廢話，中國要進攻臺灣的目的就是這樣子。"],["主席：不好意思，不是發言的委員……"],["羅委員智強：我跟你講，黑熊老大！黑熊老大！"],["主席：我們尊重發言的委員。"],["沈委員伯洋：不要造謠……"],["羅委員智強：黑熊老大，黑熊老大，我跟你講，你不要抗議我啦！你不要抗議我啦！"],["沈委員伯洋：我沒有在抗議你啦！"],["主席：您可以等您質詢的時候……"],["羅委員智強：你不要抗議我，真的！你要抗議我們邱主委啦，剛剛邱主委都打你臉了，我也很同情你，我剛一直幫你爭取啊……"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們追求對等、健康且有序的交流……"],["沈委員伯洋：不用再講這些東西，每次都說幫賴清德爭取、幫民進黨爭取……"],["羅委員智強：你沈伯洋的理念由我羅智強在幫你質詢，你要謝謝我啊！對不對？兩岸交流都有統戰，第一個要廢的陸委會跟海基會啊，符合黑熊學院的理念啊！對不對？不能夠搞「留島不留人」啊！不是嗎？"],["沈委員伯洋：剛剛還造謠……還敢講……"],["主席：請非質詢的委員尊重一下，請沒有質詢的委員尊重一下。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，今天陸委會、海基會存在的目的就是為了交流，照你的邏輯我幫你講啊，我多支持愛護你啊！黑熊學院不敢當校長的沈委員，你厲害嘛！我幫你講話嘛！我就認同你，要怎麼樣？我認同你啊！我認同你啊，所以叫陸委會把預算刪光光，兩岸不要交流啊，我認同你啊！"],["沈委員伯洋：不要用這種言論免責權造謠，你直接問就好，問我幹嘛？"],["羅委員智強：我問你幹嘛？今天你在那邊……"],["沈委員伯洋：造謠是你家的事啦！不要再造謠了啦！"],["羅委員智強：哎呦，我告訴你，黑熊也不要顛倒是非到這種程度。"],["主席：好啦！請尊重發言的委員。"],["羅委員智強：我在這邊質詢是誰進來鬧場的啊？"],["沈委員伯洋：你在造謠啊！"],["羅委員智強：是誰進來鬧場的啊？"],["沈委員伯洋：你時間已經到了，我就告訴你不要再造謠！"],["羅委員智強：造謠不造謠不是今天你沈伯熊、沈黑熊一句話就可以，對不對？"],["沈委員伯洋：沈伯熊是什麼啦，你連中文都不會喔？"],["羅委員智強：對不對啦，口誤啦！沈黑熊啦，好不好？對不起啦！"],["沈委員伯洋：新聞報導也不會看，別人發言內容也不看，隨便亂扣帽子……"],["主席：請沈委員尊重一下質詢的委員。"],["羅委員智強：你來這邊鬧場，叫我今天針對我的質詢要回答，沒有關係，我告訴你，來、來、來，沒關係，沒關係，你偉大，你真正偉大！"],["主席：沈委員，請尊重一下質詢委員。"],["羅委員智強：本人在立法院到現在為止，沒有委員在台上質詢有委員在底下鬧場過，你厲害！你第一個！你厲害！你厲害！我佩服你啊，我欣賞你啊！我告訴你，很簡單，今天為了我們偉大的沈黑熊的信念，我直接跟主委跟海基會講，你莫名其妙嘛！對不起沈伯洋啦，海峽根本照他的邏輯不該交流，結果呢？你預算還增加40%，捐助增加40%，你是當今天黑熊學院都是白癡嗎？黑熊學院的人都廢了嗎？黑熊學院今天都是數學的笨蛋嗎？預算那麼爛，你對得起黑熊學院？你沒有績效，然後你還要增加40%的預算？我跟你講，我為黑熊學院不值啊！沈伯洋可憐啊，沈伯洋苦口婆心，你們陸委會沒聽到啊？","我最後只講一句話，我跟你講，你們主動撤回這40%捐助啦，真的，不然對不起沈伯洋啦，兩岸之間怎麼可以交流？留島不留人啊！沈伯洋講的啊，謝謝你！"],["主席：謝謝羅智強委員。","現場的委員請注意秩序。","我們請楊瓊瓔委員。請尊重質詢的委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157802","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157802","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360e4e3586f98281f934a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b59665142429a604935b5345ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:35:47 - 12:51:00","影片長度":"00:15:13","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:35:47+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:51:00+08:00","duration":913,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0434687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0603437500000001,"end":1.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.2078437500000003,"end":2.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.60846875,"end":5.464718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.915968750000001,"end":7.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.235343750000002,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.875343750000003,"end":29.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.203468750000003,"end":30.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.739093750000002,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.345343750000005,"end":44.159093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.682218750000004,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.75784375,"end":50.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.774093750000006,"end":51.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.938468750000006,"end":53.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.828468750000006,"end":54.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.954718750000005,"end":56.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.74784375,"end":57.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.587218750000005,"end":59.532218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.869718750000004,"end":60.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.557218750000004,"end":63.329093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.48096875,"end":64.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.15159375,"end":69.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.92721875000001,"end":72.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.52596875,"end":75.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.68159375,"end":78.24659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.10721875,"end":82.60034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.97159375000001,"end":86.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.29159375,"end":89.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.86034375000001,"end":95.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.26909375000001,"end":118.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.71284375,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.39159375000001,"end":131.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.84159375000002,"end":135.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.38096875000002,"end":143.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.87346875,"end":145.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.96596875,"end":149.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.23971875,"end":152.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.75409375,"end":151.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.02409375000002,"end":152.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.32784375,"end":152.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.96909375,"end":165.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.49034375000002,"end":174.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.77159375000002,"end":176.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.89784375000002,"end":183.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.98534375,"end":185.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.92596875,"end":187.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.06909375,"end":197.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.43034375000002,"end":205.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.70346875,"end":206.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.32346875000002,"end":212.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.43221875,"end":222.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.10159375,"end":225.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.70034375,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.57284375,"end":234.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.25159375,"end":236.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.73659375000003,"end":237.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.56346875000003,"end":243.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.92534375000002,"end":244.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.41034375,"end":260.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.15659375,"end":249.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.71721875000003,"end":252.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.74971875,"end":261.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.26846875,"end":265.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.82034375,"end":268.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.10284375000003,"end":272.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.20784375,"end":274.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.29596875000004,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.58221875000004,"end":285.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.30284375,"end":292.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.12034375,"end":297.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.83659375,"end":304.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.11409375,"end":313.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.10846875000004,"end":316.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.60596875000005,"end":317.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.39471875000004,"end":320.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.74034375,"end":331.15221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.85409375,"end":322.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.23659375,"end":337.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.54784375,"end":350.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.89159375,"end":353.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.72659375,"end":355.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.43534375,"end":356.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.32534375,"end":358.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.50221875,"end":360.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.35846875000004,"end":363.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.19346875,"end":365.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.28596875000005,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.37409375000004,"end":370.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.87596875,"end":372.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.45784375000005,"end":374.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.85846875000004,"end":375.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.03971875,"end":377.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.77784375000005,"end":380.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.95034375,"end":383.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.70096875,"end":392.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.07221875000005,"end":384.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.08471875000004,"end":385.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.02534375000005,"end":388.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.66221875,"end":388.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.93221875,"end":389.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.18534375,"end":389.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.08346875,"end":398.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.63534375,"end":401.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.77409375,"end":402.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.46596875,"end":404.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.31784375,"end":407.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.50721875000005,"end":410.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.41409375,"end":411.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.27034375000005,"end":414.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.70034375,"end":415.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.15159375,"end":417.78846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.56034375,"end":423.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.89721875000004,"end":428.08221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.77409375,"end":429.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.66846875000005,"end":432.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.65534375000004,"end":434.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.05159375000005,"end":439.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.40096875,"end":447.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.31534375,"end":449.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.41221875,"end":457.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.46159375,"end":471.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.12596875,"end":474.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.12971875000005,"end":477.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.18846875,"end":479.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.83784375000005,"end":492.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.96221875000003,"end":496.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.60284375000003,"end":505.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.47159375,"end":501.87659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.35284375000003,"end":516.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.12784375,"end":514.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.9965937500001,"end":520.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.29971875,"end":526.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.95284375,"end":529.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.54721875,"end":531.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.84659375,"end":534.2765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.6140937499999,"end":535.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.23409375,"end":536.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.1453437499999,"end":537.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.27596875,"end":539.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.95909375,"end":542.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.0347187500001,"end":545.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.76846875,"end":546.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.2365937500001,"end":551.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.77159375,"end":557.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.2053437500001,"end":560.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4622187500001,"end":563.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.2634687500001,"end":566.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.8115937499999,"end":568.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.7522187500001,"end":569.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.35534375,"end":588.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.9853437500001,"end":591.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.1072187500001,"end":600.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.71346875,"end":602.6203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":602.97471875,"end":604.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.54409375,"end":606.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.5690937500001,"end":607.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.3703437500001,"end":633.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":625.8740937499999,"end":626.0090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.61534375,"end":637.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":637.8215937500001,"end":642.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.91784375,"end":644.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.6853437500001,"end":651.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.0522187500001,"end":647.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.32221875,"end":648.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":651.96284375,"end":653.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":653.9709687500001,"end":674.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.69346875,"end":679.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.4353437500001,"end":692.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.73284375,"end":694.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.65659375,"end":695.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.95159375,"end":697.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":699.44909375,"end":701.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.59221875,"end":709.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.19471875,"end":707.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.0803437500001,"end":711.6497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.0209687500001,"end":713.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.0122187500001,"end":715.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.66596875,"end":717.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.5347187500001,"end":719.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.28971875,"end":722.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.78721875,"end":724.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.81221875,"end":725.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.1284687500001,"end":727.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.0690937500001,"end":736.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.5022187500001,"end":741.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.21471875,"end":742.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.78409375,"end":745.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.7878437500001,"end":747.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.40346875,"end":750.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.96846875,"end":751.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.1709687500002,"end":756.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":756.3347187500001,"end":759.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":759.40596875,"end":760.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":761.19471875,"end":762.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.73034375,"end":763.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.97909375,"end":772.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.87221875,"end":775.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.0615937500002,"end":778.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.2553437500001,"end":783.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.71846875,"end":786.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.62096875,"end":788.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.55721875,"end":792.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":793.57784375,"end":794.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.1809687500001,"end":798.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.5178437500001,"end":809.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":805.39034375,"end":809.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.8959687500001,"end":811.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":812.7647187500002,"end":813.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.4522187500002,"end":816.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":815.46471875,"end":815.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.9665937500001,"end":823.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.5603437500001,"end":826.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.00721875,"end":832.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.1497187500001,"end":834.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.54534375,"end":840.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":841.2834687500001,"end":842.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":842.5659687500001,"end":843.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.71346875,"end":844.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":846.24471875,"end":848.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":849.07971875,"end":853.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":853.90596875,"end":860.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.5634687500001,"end":859.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":860.5378437500001,"end":862.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":863.8115937500002,"end":866.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":866.4609687500001,"end":870.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.7097187500001,"end":868.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.75596875,"end":869.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":871.18596875,"end":871.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":872.9578437500002,"end":876.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":876.34971875,"end":877.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":877.7334687500002,"end":878.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.06659375,"end":880.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":880.99034375,"end":884.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.4328437500001,"end":886.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.8797187500002,"end":888.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.88784375,"end":890.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":890.69346875,"end":892.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.4990937500002,"end":893.51159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":894.2878437500001,"end":895.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.59971875,"end":897.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.4053437500002,"end":899.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.9578437500002,"end":901.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":903.80534375,"end":909.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":909.15471875,"end":911.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.7409687500001,"end":913.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":912.2765937500001,"end":912.9853437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":1.33,"text":"集會董事長邱主委、吳董事長"},{"start":15.47,"end":27.244,"text":"主委好、董事長好我想很多委員大家都非常的關心就海基會的預算其實我把各個年度從2008年到2025年整個都把它劃出來了"},{"start":31.786,"end":54.639,"text":"那裡面不管是就人事費跟人事費以外其他的到了明年已經到了3.54億3.54億的這個金額大概我如果往前看了十幾年唯一大概能夠相比你的只有2012年3.56億是一直朝向增加"},{"start":56.01,"end":77.851,"text":"的狀態問題是納稅人非常的關心我們的海基會預算不斷的膨脹那實際上面到底在做些什麼樣子的事情當然對台商的服務我相信這個業務是持續的那只不過說台商可能"},{"start":79.524,"end":89.395,"text":"移開中國這個生產基地也蠻多的所以可不可以簡要的跟大家講一下說這個預算不斷的增加最主要的理由到底是什麼"},{"start":93.161,"end":121.612,"text":"有海基會我來做說明可以嗎?可以可以可以那實際上海基會今年增加預算如果會補助的部分增加七千多萬但其中因為是過去其中真正海基會預算增加四千多萬因為他是用來過去我們是自籌現在改由政府補助增加多這第二原因那四千多萬裡頭有兩千萬是人員調薪以及勞退健保相關經費所以實際今年比去年增加是兩千萬"},{"start":122.812,"end":146.12,"text":"兩千萬中主要兩大部分一大部分我們今年比較增加是有關大陸臺商子女回來臺灣寒暑假的營隊活動這增加大概佔了二分之一因為二分之一左右大概是有關於相關學界、民間社團以及綜合研系有關兩岸情勢的討論和掌握主要這樣子您剛說的啦某個程度上來講"},{"start":147,"end":150.521,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":177.252,"end":204.704,"text":"中國對台灣也不是很有善在這樣的情況之下要去做兩岸交流的事務非常的辛苦這個我們大家都知道但也不可諱言的在面臨困難的局勢辛苦的局勢的時候人民也在關心在這樣的情況之下為什麼海基會的預算還是會一直增加我剛剛是很善意開放式的給你們回答這樣子的一個問題因為"},{"start":208.086,"end":229.573,"text":"這個會牽涉到台灣跟中國彼此之間的關係剛剛秘書長也說了說有在進行很多的協商有在進行很多的交流協商的部分我就比較不清楚了目前在陸委會的立場台灣跟中國的談判應不應該以國跟國的方式來加以進行"},{"start":232.016,"end":242.964,"text":"跟委員報告我們認為兩岸關係最主要的癥結就是北京當局不願正視中華民國客觀事實存在這個我理解所以"},{"start":244.013,"end":248.137,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":267.861,"end":292.638,"text":"跟委員報告如果這是連岸都願意的話本來就是應該一國一國的方式至少我們是一個談判的實體要很清楚現在最主要問題他不肯正視我們客觀事實存在這剛說過了嘛我們在質詢備詢的時候基本上不要浪費時間浪費時間沒意義在那邊繞來繞去的直接回答問題有這麼困難嗎來我們繼續往下看"},{"start":298.882,"end":320.114,"text":"海基會的白手套功能竟然已經減弱從現在就應該開始縮編未來兩岸要以國跟國的方式談判海基會的價值就不存在贊成雙方在對等談判的情況下廢掉海基會這個主張主委贊不贊成以現階段而言我們認為海基會仍有"},{"start":321.114,"end":324.578,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":338.168,"end":365.316,"text":"簡說海基會的預算規模跟緣額,踢除養老的肥貓,否則也沒有那麼多事可以做。對這樣的主張不是事實。主委你贊不贊成?我當然不贊成,這不是事實。這不是事實嗎?剛講的這兩段主張,一個上面的主張說的人是陳其邁,下面的那個主張說的人是李俊逸。我一個字都沒改啊!"},{"start":366.545,"end":391.966,"text":"這是當初民進黨在野的時候對海基會所提出來的強烈指控跟批評現在民進黨執政了主委說這不是事實那顯然我們國家存在兩個不同的海基會沒有國民黨在執...我也待過海基會我沒有同仁都批評的認真負責你請你把我把話講完好嗎"},{"start":393.154,"end":417.492,"text":"我說我們國家存在兩個海基會一個是國民黨時期的海基會因為國民黨時期的海基會我跟主委報告上面這些話都不是我講的全部都不是我講的這兩段主張一個是陳其邁講的一個是李俊逸講的所以污衊的人不是我您剛剛說了現在的海基會不一樣"},{"start":419.585,"end":447.534,"text":"李俊逸跟陳其邁批評的是國民黨時期的海基會現在民進黨時期的海基會按照主委剛剛的說法不公平絕對不是這樣那顯然我們的海基會氣象已經煥然一新了過去對海基會所存在的批評現在都不存在了我剛剛說我們存在兩個不同的海基會我是順著你的邏輯啊去做這樣的解讀那但是但是"},{"start":448.394,"end":471.739,"text":"事實上是不是真的這個樣子我們現在的海基會跟過去的海基會展現了什麼樣子的不同我相信這件事情的評價主委你可以有你的看法海基會董事長跟秘書長都可以有各自的看法但是我相信在台灣這個民主社會當中每一個人都可以有他的看法"},{"start":472.239,"end":496.132,"text":"而我們立法委員最重要的事情是什麼就是站在人民的立場幫人民把關預算嘛這個才是我們現在之所以會站在這邊站在這邊不是在吵架啦站在這邊我們為什麼要去理解這件事情我剛剛也很善意的給海基會做說明了嘛若會贊不贊成制定兩岸協議監督條例"},{"start":499.029,"end":525.016,"text":"我們有曾經努力過但是最主要是中國大陸並不接受不好意思兩岸協議監督條例是我國的國內法跟中國大陸有什麼關係我想就是我們完成這個也沒辦法恢復兩岸的協商這是兩回事一個是監督機制一個是立法的監督機制立法的監督機制我們中華民國是一個主權獨立的國家"},{"start":527.048,"end":551.16,"text":"我們制定這個法律還要中國點頭喔重點是什麼重點是陸委會的立場在哪裡嘛陸委會的立場啊我提醒主委一下您前一任的主委是誰邱太三主委您前一任的主委是邱太三再前一任呢陳明通主委陳明通主委嘛來我跟您交換一下意見"},{"start":552.813,"end":580.599,"text":"我2019年我那時候第一次在國會的時候我問陳明通啊說兩岸協議監督條例到底什麼時候要立陳明通那個時候在國會怎麼講的他說現在比較迫切的是政治議題的協議拜託立法院先修兩岸人民關係條例把兩岸人民關係條例裡面的政治性協議的問題先處理完那至於剩下的剩下他拜託說2019年"},{"start":582.739,"end":599.774,"text":"北京對台灣主權的恐嚇非常的嚴重兩岸協議監督條例他希望立法院先過兩岸人民關係條例政治性協議的部分其他的部分我們未來繼續推動這是2019年說的話現在已經是2024年了所以我只有個最簡單的問題從陸委會的立場兩岸協議監督條例還要不要定"},{"start":609.383,"end":632.428,"text":"報告委員我想過去陳主委要求的是五之三的那個政治性協議那至於一般經濟性事務性的這個監督條例那我們尊重大院的這個審議所以只有尊重大院的審議行政部門沒有立場我們行政部門有既有的相關機制既有的什麼相關機制說來聽聽"},{"start":634.687,"end":636.369,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":645.711,"end":650.973,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":674.962,"end":694.786,"text":"兩岸人民關係條例五之三這個是政治性的協議當初民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例只有限於政治性的協議嗎?主委你有沒有看過民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例有看過嗎?只有政治性的協議嗎?是這樣定義嗎?是嗎?"},{"start":699.468,"end":727.224,"text":"那個時候行政院並沒有行政院版的而是立法院的我們委員提出來的啊對啊所以我現在的問題就來了嘛蔡英文也做了承諾賴清德也做了承諾搞了半天什麼搞了半天這個承諾全部都是空話連版本都沒有啊連推動都沒有要推動啊我要講清楚的是什麼兩岸協議內容非常的多啊"},{"start":728.16,"end":747.143,"text":"需要在國會裡面好好受到監督受到公民社會好好監督的絕對不是只有政治性的協議嘛絕對不是只有政治性的如果只有政治性的協議的話當初一群人在推兩岸協議監督條例那大家不是都犯傻了嗎"},{"start":748.624,"end":760.37,"text":"現在的問題在哪裡?你剛說北京敵視台灣北京不肯承認中華民國存在的事實北京不肯跟我們好好的協商談判這個我都同意啊"},{"start":761.483,"end":785.609,"text":"這個我都同意啊但是中華民國作為一個主權獨立的國家我們十年前就知道了兩岸的協議沒有健全的國會監督機制所以公民社會才會要求要訂這個嘛所以蔡英文才會承諾嘛賴清德也才會承諾嘛結果過了十年以後我們陸委會的態度是怎麼樣尊重本院的審議尊重本院的審議"},{"start":790.812,"end":807.22,"text":"這個是執政黨應該有的態度嗎?我簡單問你,所以站在陸委會的立場,到底有沒有要推兩岸協議監督條例?我們認為我們現在兩岸的民間關係條例相關的機制已有。如果民間社會,不好意思,我再說一次,當初為什麼會反對?"},{"start":812.83,"end":834.205,"text":"你現在的說法跟當初陸委會的主委一模一樣我為什麼說一模一樣當初他們就是說說兩岸人民關係條例裡面已經有健全的機制如果這句話成立的話過去這十年公民社會在要求兩岸協議監督條例是在要求假的喔是在要求假的喔"},{"start":839.565,"end":839.845,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":863.988,"end":865.83,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":886.96,"end":901.574,"text":"就是台灣民眾黨黨團啊但我要問的是什麼一位蔡英文一位賴清德跟台灣社會做了承諾具體的行動在哪裡我沒有看到具體的行動在哪裡好那請主委是不是可以提出這個後續的報告是好好好謝謝在一個禮拜內好不好OK提到"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2878,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時35分）謝謝主席，是不是麻煩有請主委？然後海基會的董事長也可以。"],["主席：請邱主委，還有吳董事長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好，董事長好。我想，很多委員大家都非常關心，就海基會的預算，其實我把各個年度，從2008年到2025年，整個都畫出來了，裡面不管是人事費跟人事費以外其他的，明年已經到了3.54億。3.54億的金額，如果往前看十幾年，唯一能夠相比擬的，只有2012年的3.56億，是一直朝向增加的狀態。但問題是納稅人非常關心，我們的海基會預算不斷地膨脹，那實際上到底在做些什麼樣子的事情？當然，對臺商的服務，我相信這個業務是持續的，只不過說，臺商可能移開中國這個生產基地也滿多的，所以可不可以簡要地跟大家講一下，這個預算不斷地增加，最主要的理由到底是什麼？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：委員，由海基會我來做說明，可以嗎？"],["黃委員國昌：可以，可以，可以。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：謝謝。實際上海基會今年增加預算，陸委會補助的部分增加七千多萬，我們海基會預算真正增加的是四千多萬，因為過去我們是自籌，現在改由政府補助，增加多，這是第一個原因。那四千多萬裡頭有2,000萬是人員調薪及勞退、健保相關經費，所以實際今年比去年增加是2,000萬，那2,000萬中主要是兩大部分，一大部分我們今年增加比較多的是有關大陸臺商子女回來臺灣參加寒暑假的營隊活動，這增加大概占了二分之一，另外二分之一左右是有關於學界、民間社團及綜合研析兩岸情勢的討論和掌握，主要是這樣子。"],["黃委員國昌：秘書長剛剛說的從某個程度上來講，內容都相當抽象，我不好意思說空泛，內容相當抽象……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我可以提供具體的數字，辦幾場的數字，多少金額，都沒有問題。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，等我們審到具體的預算細項的時候，我們一樣一樣再盤點，我一開始的時候是比較善意地用開放式的問題，讓你們簡要地跟社會大眾說明，為什麼有必要、錢會增加，因為現在兩岸關係不好，中國對臺灣也不是很友善，在這樣的情況之下，要去做兩岸交流的事務非常辛苦，這個我們大家都知道。但也不可諱言，在面臨困難的局勢、辛苦的局勢的時候，人民也在關心，在這樣的情況之下，為什麼海基會的預算還是會一直增加。我剛剛是很善意，開放式地給你們回答這樣子的一個問題。因為這個會牽涉到臺灣跟中國彼此之間的關係，剛剛秘書長也說了，說有在進行很多協商，有在進行很多交流，協商的部分，我比較不清楚，目前陸委會的立場，臺灣跟中國的談判應不應該以國跟國的方式來加以進行？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們認為兩岸關係最主要的癥結，就是北京當局不願正視中華民國客觀事實存在。"],["黃委員國昌：這個我理解，所以答案是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以當年……"],["黃委員國昌：不用講古啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：兩岸的定位還沒有確定……"],["黃委員國昌：對不起，我沒有多少時間，請你不要拖延我的時間，請你具體就問題來回答。你剛剛說得很好，北京當局不願意正視中華民國的存在，說得非常的好。但我的問題是，我們跟中國的談判要不要以國跟國的方式來進行？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，如果是兩岸都願意的話，本來就是應該……"],["黃委員國昌：以國與國的方式？"],["邱主任委員垂正：至少我們是一個談判的實體，這個要很清楚。現在最主要的問題是他不肯正視我們客觀事實存在。"],["黃委員國昌：這剛剛說過了嘛！我們在質詢、備詢的時候，基本上不要浪費時間，浪費時間沒意義嘛！在那邊繞來繞去的，直接回答問題有這麼困難嗎？","來，我們繼續往下看，海基會的白手套功能既然已經減弱，從現在就應該開始縮編，未來兩岸要以國跟國的方式談判，海基會的價值就不存在，贊成雙方在對等談判的情況下廢掉海基會。這個主張，主委贊不贊成？"],["邱主任委員垂正：以現階段而言，我們認為海基會仍有重要的功能。"],["黃委員國昌：好，第二個，海基會的功能幾乎只剩下替某政黨向臺商拉票固樁，變成「某政黨的特種黨部」，董事長的功能只剩下喝酒吃飯、交際、幫忙拉票，要減縮海基會的預算規模跟員額，剔除養老的肥貓，否則也沒有那麼多事情可以做。對這樣的主張……"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個說法不是事實。"],["黃委員國昌：主委你贊不贊成？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我當然不贊成，這不是事實。"],["黃委員國昌：這不是事實嘛？好。剛剛講的這兩段主張，上面那個主張，說的人是陳其邁；下面的那個主張，說的人是李俊俋。我一個字都沒改，這是當初民進黨在野的時候對海基會所提出來的強烈指控跟批評。現在民進黨執政了，主委說這不是事實，那顯然我們國家存在兩個不同的海基會。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，委員……"],["黃委員國昌：國民黨在執政……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我也待過海基會，我們的同仁都非常的認真負責……"],["黃委員國昌：請你讓我把話講完，好嗎？我說我們國家存在兩個海基會，一個是國民黨時期的海基會，因為國民黨時期的海基會……我跟主委報告，上面這些話都不是我講的，全部都不是我講的，這兩段主張一個是陳其邁講的，一個是李俊俋講的，所以誣衊的人不是我。您剛剛說了，現在的海基會不一樣，李俊俋跟陳其邁批評的是國民黨時期的海基會；現在民進黨時期的海基會，按照主委剛剛的說法：不公平、絕對不是這樣。那顯然我們的海基會氣象已經煥然一新了，過去對海基會所存在的批評，現在都不存在了！我剛剛說我們存在兩個不同的海基會，我是順著你的邏輯去做這樣的解讀。但是，事實上是不是真的這個樣子？我們現在的海基會跟過去的海基會展現了什麼樣子的不同？我相信這件事情的評價，主委你可以有你的看法，海基會董事長跟秘書長都可以有各自的看法，我相信在臺灣這個民主社會當中每一個人都可以有他的看法，而我們立法委員最重要的事情是什麼？就是站在人民的立場幫人民把關預算，這個才是我們現在之所以會站在這邊，站在這邊不是在吵架，站在這邊，我們為什麼要去理解這件事情？我剛剛也很善意的給海基會做說明了。","好，陸委會贊不贊成制定兩岸協議監督條例？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們有曾經努力過……"],["黃委員國昌：失敗了！"],["邱主任委員垂正：最主要是中國大陸並不接受。"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思，兩岸協議監督條例是我國的國內法，跟中國大陸有什麼關係？"],["邱主任委員垂正：就是說我們完成這個的話，也沒辦法恢復兩岸的協商。"],["黃委員國昌：不是，這是兩回事，一個是監督機制，一個是立法的監督機制。立法的監督機制，我們中華民國是一個主權獨立的國家，我們制定這個法律，還要中國點頭？重點是什麼？重點是陸委會的立場在哪裡？陸委會的立場，我提醒主委一下，您前一任的主委是誰？"],["邱主任委員垂正：邱太三主委。"],["黃委員國昌：您前一任的主委是邱太三，再前一任呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：陳明通主委。"],["黃委員國昌：好，陳明通主委。來，我跟你交換一下意見，我2019年第一次在國會的時候問陳明通說：兩岸協議監督條例到底什麼時候要立？陳明通那個時候在國會怎麼講的？他說：現在比較迫切的是政治議題的協議，拜託立法院先修兩岸人民關係條例，把兩岸人民關係條例裡面的政治性協議的問題先處理完。那至於剩下的，他拜託說，2019年北京對臺灣主權的恐嚇非常的嚴重，有關兩岸協議監督條例，他希望立法院先過兩岸人民關係條例政治性協議的部分，其他的部分我們未來繼續推動。這是2019年說的話，現在已經是2024年了。所以我只有一個最簡單的問題，從陸委會的立場，兩岸協議監督條例還要不要訂？"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，我想過去陳主委要求的是五之三（第五條之三）的政治性協議，至於一般經濟性、事務性的監督條例，我們尊重「大院」的審議。"],["黃委員國昌：所以只有尊重「大院」的審議，行政部門沒有立場？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們行政部門有既有的相關機制。"],["黃委員國昌：既有的什麼相關機制？說來聽聽，說來聽聽啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想兩岸條例已經有相關機制。"],["黃委員國昌：如果兩岸條例那個機制可以用、如果可以滿足的話，當初怎麼會說要訂兩岸協議監督條例？"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為2016年的時候……"],["黃委員國昌：來、來、來，我提醒一下，當初這是誰做的承諾？這是蔡英文的承諾、這是賴清德的承諾！奇怪了，蔡英文跟賴清德當初怎麼不主張說我們現在已經有既有的機制可以好好運作了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，那個時候沒有五之三的修法。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以你把兩岸協議監督條例完全窄化成只是政治性的協議嘛！我才特別做這張圖提醒你們啊！兩岸人民關係條例五之三，這個是政治性的協議。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["黃委員國昌：當初民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例只有限於政治性的協議嗎？主委，你有沒有看過民進黨所提出來的兩岸協議監督條例？有看過嗎？只有政治性的協議嗎？是這樣定義嗎？是嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：那個時候行政院並沒有行政院版的，而是立法院的委員提出來的。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊，所以我現在的問題就來了嘛，蔡英文也做了承諾，賴清德也做了承諾，搞了半天，這個承諾全部都是空話，連版本都沒有啊！連推動都沒有要推動！我要講清楚的是什麼？兩岸協議內容非常的多，需要在國會裡面好好受到監督，受到公民社會好好監督的，絕對不是只有政治性的協議嘛！絕對不是只有政治性的，如果只有政治性協議的話，當初一群人在推兩岸協議監督條例，那大家不是都犯傻了嗎？現在的問題在哪裡？你剛剛說北京敵視臺灣，北京不肯承認中華民國存在的事實，北京不肯跟我們好好的協商談判，這個我都同意啊！這個我都同意啊！但是中華民國作為一個主權獨立的國家，我們10年前就知道了兩岸的協議沒有健全的國會監督機制，所以公民社會才會要求要訂這個，所以蔡英文才會承諾嘛！賴清德也才會承諾嘛！結果過了10年以後，我們陸委會的態度是怎麼樣？尊重本院的審議。尊重本院的審議！這個是執政黨應該有的態度嗎？我簡單問你，站在陸委會的立場，到底有沒有要推兩岸協議監督條例？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們認為我們現在兩岸人民關係條例相關的這個機制已有，如果民間社會包括立法院願意推動的話，我們樂觀其成。"],["黃委員國昌：我再說一次喔，當初為什麼會反對？你現在的說法跟當初陸委會的主委一模一樣。我為什麼說一模一樣？當初他們就是說兩岸人民關係條例裡面已經有健全的機制，如果這句話成立的話，過去這10年公民社會在要求兩岸協議監督條例是在要求假的哦？是在要求假的哦？答應的事情，如果你們推動而立法院不通過是立法院的錯，但是你們做出了政治承諾，結果今天的態度是這個樣子！不好意思啦，我沒辦法接受。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們已經答應公民社會，通過了兩岸條例五之三相關的立法。"],["黃委員國昌：我剛不是跟你講過了嗎？五之三是只有政治性的協議啊！除了政治性的協議，其他的協議不用監督？"],["邱主任委員垂正：現行的兩岸條例就可以處理。"],["黃委員國昌：用兩岸人民關係條例可以……"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果委員認為不足，可以去推動，我們樂觀其成。"],["黃委員國昌：我推動了啊！我提案了啊！在這一屆國會裡面，唯一有提出兩岸協議監督條例的就是台灣民眾黨黨團，就是台灣民眾黨黨團！但我要問的是什麼，一位蔡英文，一位賴清德，跟臺灣社會做了承諾，具體的行動在哪裡？我沒有看到！具體的行動在哪裡？"],["主席：請主委是不是可以提出後續的報告？在一個禮拜內，好不好？提到內政委員會。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157801","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157801","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360dd0318c3cd8819584a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b59665134c366ed1daa38bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:27:14 - 12:35:40","影片長度":"00:08:26","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:27:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:35:40+08:00","duration":506,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.16596875,"end":0.35159375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.79784375,"end":8.434718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.51909375,"end":9.750968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.72159375,"end":9.919718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.801593750000002,"end":12.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.04159375,"end":13.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.41284375,"end":14.138468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.94784375,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.33596875,"end":20.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.86721875,"end":22.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.06971875,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.28909375,"end":22.660343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.28471875,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.989093750000002,"end":38.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.62409375,"end":38.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.877218750000004,"end":90.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.09909375,"end":50.588468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.672218750000006,"end":55.414718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.02534375,"end":91.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.83096875000001,"end":106.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.95096875,"end":110.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.86596875000001,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.66721875,"end":124.72034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.86846875,"end":165.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.49221875,"end":126.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.94159375,"end":141.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.49409375000002,"end":141.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.61221875,"end":142.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.49284375000002,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.20971875,"end":152.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.49659375000002,"end":154.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.13159375,"end":166.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.09346875,"end":178.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.29471875000002,"end":175.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.24784375000002,"end":203.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.58596875,"end":203.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.67846875,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.97346875000002,"end":206.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.04096875000002,"end":206.49659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.59784375,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.96909375,"end":207.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.64409375000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.29284375,"end":214.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.84971875000002,"end":227.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.86659375000002,"end":216.46971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.55659375000002,"end":231.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.28596875000002,"end":243.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.85846875000001,"end":248.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.41409375,"end":249.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.44346875000002,"end":249.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.66284375,"end":249.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.74721875,"end":249.81471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.84846875000002,"end":258.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.34909375,"end":264.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.10346875,"end":271.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":271.98846875000004,"end":272.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.59596875,"end":273.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.74346875000003,"end":285.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":286.23096875000005,"end":286.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.24784375,"end":288.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.03659375,"end":288.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.40346875,"end":289.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":294.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.89221875000004,"end":295.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.36034375,"end":302.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.32971875000004,"end":308.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.14346875,"end":307.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.07159375000003,"end":307.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.15596875,"end":308.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.28659375,"end":309.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.26534375,"end":309.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.28221875,"end":309.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.29909375,"end":313.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.31596875,"end":309.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.28596875,"end":312.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.23909375,"end":315.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.91409375,"end":321.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.51659375,"end":321.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.78659375,"end":324.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.63846875,"end":325.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.29659375,"end":326.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.32159375000003,"end":330.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.01346875,"end":333.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.24471875,"end":343.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.85096875000005,"end":343.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.48784375,"end":343.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.99409375000005,"end":348.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":344.04471875,"end":345.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.33096875,"end":353.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.44846875,"end":357.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.05159375,"end":354.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":357.32534375,"end":363.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.34221875000003,"end":359.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.21471875000003,"end":371.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.24846875000003,"end":365.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.57284375,"end":367.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":369.17159375,"end":393.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.47909375,"end":373.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.94721875000005,"end":373.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.03159375,"end":374.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.38596875,"end":378.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":393.31971875000005,"end":410.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.21221875000003,"end":406.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.76846875,"end":412.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.21534375000005,"end":459.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":460.48221875,"end":463.24971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.51971875000004,"end":465.34221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.34221875000003,"end":480.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.39096875,"end":477.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.17971875,"end":479.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.55096875000004,"end":480.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.15846875000005,"end":480.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.27659375,"end":480.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.52971875000003,"end":480.58034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.58034375000005,"end":480.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.59721875,"end":483.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.26346875,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.31409375000004,"end":483.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.39846875,"end":483.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.52471875000003,"end":485.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.93784375,"end":492.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.85721875,"end":492.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.73034375000003,"end":492.74721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.74721875000006,"end":495.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.18596875000003,"end":494.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.59034375000005,"end":498.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.33284375000005,"end":501.55596875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.82,"end":8.181,"text":"海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務"},{"start":26.556,"end":52.208,"text":"主委請問一下海基會的業務因為海基會當初成立的目的是因為兩岸官方沒辦法交流所以成立一個民間機構透過民間方式來做交流所以海基會扮演一個兩岸民間橋樑的工作但是現在海基會大家都知道說功能越來越沒辦法凸顯了這個當然是因為兩岸關係不好這個是有大環境的影響服務交流還是有很多功能"},{"start":52.668,"end":54.35,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":69.088,"end":70.75,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":92.177,"end":106.307,"text":"跟委員報告我們過去我們有三所台商子弟學校他們在中國大陸涉及到我們主權意涵的或是比較敏感的他們的教科書都把它刪掉"},{"start":106.991,"end":109.372,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":126.943,"end":127.744,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":144.139,"end":146.44,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":167.11,"end":169.493,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":185.854,"end":187.976,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":207.777,"end":235.912,"text":"應該是這樣有一些業務費啦但是至少我看到光是出國到各國去的旅費就40萬對那另外還有業務費因為你們給的資料就是一大包嘛就說我們這個幾千萬我們要做什麼什麼什麼什麼所以我們也不知道說到底你花多少錢去做跟其他國家的交流啊但我覺得這也不管怎麼樣這也不是海基會的本業啦這種海基會的本業應該要回歸就是兩岸的一些民間的協商嘛"},{"start":236.152,"end":237.673,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":260.157,"end":288.345,"text":"這馬總統時代那時候當時台商有些人身安全事件協處一年大概是兩百件還有加上其他的一些財產法益事件一年大概可以海基會當時處理六百多件不過現在台商的相關的陳情案件大概就只剩下兩百件之前是六百件現在剩兩百件我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來就剩下三分之一這其實是你們主要業務可是你們的這個處理的案件數卻一直下滑"},{"start":289.451,"end":296.877,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":316.047,"end":319.529,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":333.556,"end":335.117,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":363.288,"end":363.808,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":393.388,"end":411.962,"text":"依然存在,你看喔,光是112年海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數,當然不包括,不只是台商啦,就1萬633通嘛。那相較之前的平均4千多通,實際上兩岸的需求是有增加,是有增加。所以我只是透過這個預算的討論,就是跟主委跟秘書長講,"},{"start":413.303,"end":434.765,"text":"如果你要希望說海基會這個存在被大家認為是有需要的應該就本業上兩岸你如果協助兩岸的人民在溝通上面解決他們的問題嗎而不是說編了很多好像因為主業務變少了所以我為了編預算編預算然後邀請台商之女來導正他教育的觀念"},{"start":435.606,"end":459.566,"text":"然後不然就是我們去各國做交流去辦什麼座談會我認為這不是海基會應該要做的那我覺得主事者的觀念很重要你主事者如果認為說我的主要存在目的是要解決兩岸的問題的話你就會朝那個方向但如果主事者的想法是說反正我們現在兩岸關係不好我也沒什麼業務那我就好好的開展我的對外擴展的業務甚至做教育的工作那整個就偏掉了啦"},{"start":460.987,"end":482.885,"text":"所以我是希望說海基會包括陸委會還是能夠回到本業,不知道這樣怎麼可以如果找個時間有機會我再跟業委員再做當面報告你一定會知道海基會不管在兩岸基本的結構兩岸協商、交流以及各種服務工作我們做了努力和準備找個時間我當面再跟您做報告好謝謝委員我們的本業我們還是最主要的"},{"start":483.365,"end":486.908,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2826,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時27分）請陸委會主委和海基會董事長。"],["主席：好，請邱主委、董事長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。主委，我想問一下海基會的業務，因為海基會當初成立的目的是因為兩岸官方沒辦法交流，所以成立一個民間機構，透過民間的方式來交流，所以海基會扮演一個兩岸民間橋梁的工作。但是現在大家都知道海基會的功能越來越沒辦法凸顯了，這個當然是因為兩岸關係不好，這個是有大環境的影響。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想在服務交流和協商還是有很多功能。"],["葉委員元之：是啦！可是沒有像之前大家期望的那樣。現在的問題是說，海基會的功能不斷地在萎縮，可是編的預算卻越來越多，你看，這個是海基會明年編的預算，明年編的預算是3,198萬，比去年還多了大概一千多萬，根據海基會所提供的原因，是說因為文教費，還有一些交流活動的費用增加，我想請教一下，這個文教費用主要是用在哪裡？是請臺商子弟回臺灣觀光旅遊還是怎麼樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們有三所臺商子弟學校，他們在中國大陸用的教科書，內容涉及到我們主權意涵的，或者是比較敏感的，都會被刪掉，我們往往在暑假和寒假讓他們到臺灣社會來補課，所以我們會舉辦很多活動，包含剛剛說的夏令營、冬令營或探索營，來為他們補充臺灣元素的課程。"],["葉委員元之：主委，我不是說你們辦這個活動不好，而是說它不能成為海基會最主要存在的目的，這個比重就很奇怪。你現在感覺是說，因為怕臺商子弟在那邊受到洗腦，我們要把他們找回來，給他們洗滌一下、導正一下。"],["邱主任委員垂正：強化他們跟臺灣的連結。"],["葉委員元之：感覺海基會變成幫臺商子弟洗滌人心的機構之一，我認為這不是海基會存在最主要目的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：還有其他、還有其他。"],["葉委員元之：這不是海基會存在的最主要目的，這是第一件事情。","第二件事情是，你們提到會到各國去交流嘛，對不對？這也是你們增加預算的原因之一。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想海基會沒有這麼說啦。"],["葉委員元之：有。我們有看到預算書裡面，包括會到大陸以外的其他國家去做交流，跟智庫去做協商。"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，如果有這種狀況，可能要去交流，就是因為川普2.0將採取高關稅，那中國大陸的臺商會到東南亞臺商雲集的地方，像越南、泰國、菲律賓、印尼，對臺商雲集的部分，我們也希望海基會能夠去瞭解臺商的動態。"],["葉委員元之：所以就是到各國去瞭解臺商動態？"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是有沒有編列那麼多預算？應該是沒有，應該是沒有。"],["葉委員元之：有一些業務費，但是至少我看到光是出國到各國去的旅費就有40萬。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。"],["葉委員元之：另外還有業務費，因為你們給的資料就是一大包，說這個要幾千萬，要做什麼，所以我們也不知道到底你們花多少錢去跟其他國家交流，但是我覺得不管怎麼樣，這也不是海基會的本業，海基會的本業應該是要回歸兩岸的一些民間的協商。就是說，透過官方無法處理的，海基會要扮演它的功能，這才是海基會應該要去努力的方向。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想，對陸配家庭、對臺商、對在臺陸生，以及對在中國大陸的臺生，服務應該要加強。"],["葉委員元之：是，應該是這樣，那後面還有一些數據，也讓主委看一下，知道為什麼我們認為你們的具體業務越來越少，譬如說馬總統的時代，臺商有一些人身安全的事件，協處的件數一年大概是200件，還要加上其他一些財產法益事件，海基會當時是處理六百多件，不過現在臺商的相關陳情案件大概就只剩下200件，之前是600件，現在剩200件，我們這邊都有把那個數據列出來，就是剩下三分之一。這其實是你們的主要業務，可是你們處理的案件數字卻一直下滑。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我覺得看案件類型啦。"],["葉委員元之：你有去分析案件類型嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我去年在海基會的時候，我們一年就可以服務36萬5,000件，而且我們……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，沒有。我現在指的是臺商的部分。等一下還有別的數據，我現在講的是臺商的部分。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，那我是不是請羅秘書長來說明？"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：針對臺商的部分，在馬英九總統時代，海基會一年大概處理四、五百件，我們過去一年是有300件，所以雖然數字……"],["葉委員元之：你看這個數據，112年是277件，111年也是277件。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：葉委員，你引用的數字只是我們其中一項計劃，整個對臺商和大陸相關計畫還有其他統計，因為這只是其中一個表格。"],["葉委員元之：至少這項計畫裡面的人數在遞減。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：臺商的部分是因為這幾年臺商也大量從中國離開。"],["葉委員元之：所以你認為案件減少並不是因為兩岸關係不好，而是因為臺商減少的關係？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：兩岸關係當然有影響，但是中國內部臺商大幅出走……"],["葉委員元之：臺商大幅出走，造成海基會目前收到的可以處理的案件數變少，是這個意思嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：但是我們的服務指標是不希望案件多，案件多就表示糾紛多。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，沒有人會希望案件多，我們只是要了解，海基會主要的業務……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我們即使是一位、兩位……"],["葉委員元之：這我了解，這我了解，我只是想了解海基會的主要功能是否存在嘛。","好，還有另外一個數據，實際上剛剛秘書長講了，因為兩岸關係不好，然後臺商也變少，但是其實海基會重點工作依然存在，你看，光是112年，海基會緊急服務專線接聽的通數就1萬633通，當然不只是臺商，但相較之前的平均四千多通，實際上兩岸的需求是有增加。我只是透過預算的討論，跟主委和秘書長講，如果你希望海基會被大家認為是有需要的，應該就本業協助兩岸人民在溝通上面解決他們的問題，而不是編了很多，好像因為主業務變少了，所以為了編預算而編預算，然後邀請臺商子女來導正他們教育的觀念，不然就是去各國交流，去辦什麼座談會，我認為這不是海基會應該要做的。我覺得主事者的觀念很重要，主事者如果認為海基會存在的主要目的是要解決兩岸問題的話，就會朝這個方向，但如果主事者的想法是，反正現在兩岸關係不好，海基會也沒什麼業務，那就好好開展對外擴展的業務，甚至做教育的工作，那整個就偏掉了。所以我是希望海基會和陸委會還是回到本業，不知道這樣可不可以？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：委員，我找個時間有機會再跟葉委員當面報告，你一定會知道海基會在兩岸基本的結構、兩岸協商交流及各種服務工作，我們做的努力和準備。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我找個時間，當面再跟您報告。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們的本業還是最主要的，那其他功能的擴充，可能要跟委員講的整體……"],["葉委員元之：你們的本業現在感覺就是阻礙兩岸交流，現在本業變這樣了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，沒有。還是在交流服務，全力以赴。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員。","接下來請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157800","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157800","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360f01d8412748310d74a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b596651f0a2f51fd5bd8c715ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"12:20:34 - 12:27:02","影片長度":"00:06:28","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:20:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:27:02+08:00","duration":388,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.41909375000000004,"end":3.0178437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.25409375,"end":4.3678437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.793468750000001,"end":8.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.687843750000003,"end":9.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.341593750000001,"end":12.602843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.31159375,"end":16.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.78784375,"end":21.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.17096875,"end":23.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.90909375,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.12846875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.63034375,"end":28.684718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.190968750000003,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.67971875,"end":35.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.99159375,"end":36.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.47659375,"end":39.720968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.17659375,"end":42.994718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.70346875,"end":46.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.80846875,"end":48.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.96846875,"end":51.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.275968750000004,"end":54.689093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.229093750000004,"end":57.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.03471875,"end":58.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.33409375,"end":61.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.53596875,"end":63.008468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.19409375,"end":66.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.10909375,"end":67.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.42534375000001,"end":71.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.69909375,"end":72.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.67784375000001,"end":74.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.24284375,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.89659375000001,"end":97.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.97346875000001,"end":102.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.58471875000001,"end":104.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.62221875,"end":109.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.61721875,"end":110.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.35534375,"end":120.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.66221875000001,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.09659375000001,"end":120.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.41721875,"end":120.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.95721875000001,"end":121.95284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.19346875000001,"end":122.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.20159375,"end":123.21846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.21846875000001,"end":123.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.70784375000001,"end":123.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.80909375,"end":123.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.96096875,"end":124.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.73721875000001,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.77096875000001,"end":124.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.97346875000001,"end":125.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.02409375,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.96909375000001,"end":126.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.03659375000001,"end":126.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.45846875000001,"end":126.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.49221875,"end":128.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.04034375,"end":161.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.16221875000002,"end":160.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.82846875,"end":164.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.27096875,"end":167.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.31284375,"end":167.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.97096875,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.03846875000002,"end":169.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.32096875000002,"end":170.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.37159375000002,"end":169.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.41346875000002,"end":176.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.15534375000001,"end":176.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.23971875,"end":176.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.52659375000002,"end":176.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.84721875000002,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.50534375,"end":177.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.52221875,"end":180.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.72846875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.02784375000002,"end":194.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.16284375,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.97096875000003,"end":196.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.50659375,"end":199.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.84784375,"end":203.84721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.08346875,"end":211.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.39534375000002,"end":206.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.49221875,"end":207.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.45784375000002,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.57159375,"end":212.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.43221875,"end":237.98534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.58034375000003,"end":238.01909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.01909375000002,"end":238.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.03596875000002,"end":238.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.08659375000002,"end":238.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.25534375,"end":238.42409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.42409375000003,"end":238.44096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.44096875000002,"end":241.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.54221875000002,"end":239.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.40659375,"end":244.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.61721875,"end":245.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.74784375000002,"end":246.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.35096875000002,"end":252.70034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.88596875000002,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.14721875,"end":256.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.90221875000003,"end":258.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.11721875,"end":262.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.84284375000004,"end":259.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.87596875,"end":265.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.09909375,"end":268.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.44471875,"end":269.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.03096875,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.34284375000004,"end":276.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.59534375000004,"end":282.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.27784375000005,"end":284.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.31159375000004,"end":292.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.65596875,"end":296.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.03534375000004,"end":306.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.53159375,"end":314.95221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.03659375,"end":323.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.14534375,"end":322.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.27596875,"end":322.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.50784375,"end":325.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.40221875000003,"end":330.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.78596875,"end":326.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.88284375,"end":328.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.53659375,"end":329.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.03846875000005,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.96659375,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.03409375,"end":340.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.22659375,"end":343.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.26409375000003,"end":345.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.71534375000005,"end":346.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.39034375,"end":351.26721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.89159375,"end":352.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.70159375000003,"end":357.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.53659375,"end":355.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.97534375000004,"end":356.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.89909375,"end":359.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.97471875,"end":378.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.21034375000005,"end":367.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.36846875000003,"end":378.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.50346875,"end":379.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.20346875,"end":388.47659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.938,"end":27.167,"text":"主席請陸委會邱主委好請邱主委黃委員好主委好我第一次站上執行台歡迎指教很緊張我也很緊張因為今天這個馬英九那一團去到清華大學受到跟台大一樣的待遇現在清華大學有人舉中華民國國旗"},{"start":29.264,"end":51.404,"text":"有人舉中華人民共和國的國旗這幾天下來陸委會覺得他們當時有承諾嘛他們當時有說來這裡不談政治來這裡不談不談不談政治他們有一堆承諾照你目前看來站在一個陸委會主委的角度"},{"start":52.335,"end":77.609,"text":"目前看來那條紅線踩過去了沒跟委員報告坦白講我們作為主管機關我們非常遺憾因為我們不希望我們來台交流的團體會引起這個那麼多不同意見的對立衝突或者是傷害台灣人民情感這我們絕對不樂見所以針對這個案件我們主管機關"},{"start":80.791,"end":108.995,"text":"還有匯從相關主管機關然後來加以進一步來審認相關的資料是不是有違反既有的我們的法規對它違規違常我們會加以來判定進一步的審認這是我們的職責所在我們將來也不允許有類似的活動出來那今年有這種團到台灣來這個不管大學交流學術交流不管什麼的交流"},{"start":109.704,"end":110.444,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":129.31,"end":149.033,"text":"跟委員報告就是我們輔導協助的團非常多了那他都有按照我們的一些原則上或是一些建議比如說我們有所謂的三不一低調的規範我想絕大部分的團都有遵守所以因為看到其實我們兩岸的團很多"},{"start":149.854,"end":153.995,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":171.445,"end":181.971,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":200.001,"end":211.734,"text":"所有的行程他們的這一個每天原來他們就有一個行程表對不對到哪一個學校跟什麼團體交流跟什麼要叫到目前為止有沒有脫離行程"},{"start":214.079,"end":240.826,"text":"就行程而言是沒有了但是我們本來有要求你必須要尊重校園的安寧尊重學生跟老師的正常的生活不要去打攪但是我們看到恐怕不是這樣也有衝突有抗議的而且越來越不安主委你也在大學教書以前"},{"start":242.466,"end":250.369,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":273.696,"end":274.978,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":293.937,"end":295.818,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":315.146,"end":315.626,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":332.398,"end":336.14,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":358.127,"end":360.469,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":381.618,"end":382.739,"text":"審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2774,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（12時20分）主席，請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席：好，請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：王委員好。"],["王委員義川：主委好，我第一次站上質詢台。"],["邱主任委員垂正：歡迎指教。"],["王委員義川：很緊張。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我也很緊張。"],["王委員義川：因為今天馬英九那一團到清華大學，受到跟在臺大時一樣的待遇，現在清華大學有人舉中華民國國旗，有人舉中華人民共和國的國旗。他們當時有承諾，他們當時有說來這裡不談政治，他們有一堆承諾，這幾天下來，照你目前看來，站在一個陸委會主委的角度，目前看來，那一條紅線踩過去了沒？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，坦白講，我們做為主管機關，我們非常遺憾，因為我們不希望來臺交流的團體引起那麼多不同意見的對立與衝突，或者是傷害臺灣人民情感，這個我們絕對不樂見，所以針對這個案件，我們主管機關將會同相關主管機關，然後進一步審認相關的資料是不是違反我們既有的法規，對於違規違常的部分，我們會加以判定，來進一步審認，這是我們的職責所在，我們將來也不允許有類似的活動出來，謝謝。"],["王委員義川：今年這種團到臺灣來，不管是大學交流、學術交流，不管什麼名義的交流，這種團有多少？"],["邱主任委員垂正：文教交流的團是滿多的，這個數據我們是不是可以提供委員……"],["王委員義川：好，會後提供。","除了這一次這一團以外，之前的有沒有哪一團像這一團這麼誇張的？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們輔導協助的團非常多，他們都有按照我們的一些原則或建議，比如說，我們有所謂「三不一低調」的規範，絕大部分的團都有遵守，所以你可以看到，其實我們兩岸的團很多，但是都沒有引起社會的對立，或者是傷害臺灣人民情感，從這兩個指標就可以看出，我們對馬英九基金會這一團是滿遺憾的。"],["王委員義川：你都沒有跟馬英九基金會說不要太誇張？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們同仁都有即時跟他們聯繫。"],["王委員義川：可是他們有反應嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：同仁都說他們知道，他們會注意。"],["王委員義川：會注意？他們說「中國台北」的時候，還有人說可以講中國臺灣，再加上去！還說會注意？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。所以他們自己也是提油救火，讓臺灣社會更加沸騰、更加對立，我們是非常遺憾。"],["王委員義川：第二，他們現在到各個大學去交流，所有的行程，他們每天原來就有一個行程表，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員義川：到哪一個學校，跟什麼團體交流，什麼樣的交流，到目前為止，有沒有脫離行程？"],["邱主任委員垂正：就行程而言是沒有，但是我們本來有要求他們必須要尊重校園的安寧，尊重學生跟老師的正常生活，不要去打擾，但是我們看到的恐怕不是這樣，也有衝突，也有抗議，而且越來越不安，這讓我們非常遺憾。"],["王委員義川：主委，你以前也在大學教書，在學校裡頭抗議、舉牌，在校園裡頭喊得大小聲，這是臺灣民主政治的常態嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：在校園裡常常見到這種事情。"],["王委員義川：這是在中國沒有辦法見到的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想是不可能的。"],["王委員義川：沒有辦法嘛，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["王委員義川：所以這次他們來也達到一個交流。","好，馬英九基金會改天又要申請的時候，你們會特別、特別、特別叫他們要注意什麼事情嗎？還是都一樣？都一樣，照原來的程序送申請，再許下承諾，再搞出同樣的事情，你們也都沒有辦法，現在你們可能遇到的最嚴重的狀況，我說最嚴重的狀況，你們有可能對這個申請單位做什麼樣的決定、什麼樣的處分？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，跟委員報告，對於違反我們相關規定、違規、違常的陸籍人士，當然我們會註記他的身分，以後遇案嚴審，當然我們會按照情節輕重，他們也有可能一段期間無法到臺灣來，就是遇案，在一定期間我們無法同意他們來臺。"],["王委員義川：你說的是那個人嘛？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是那個人就是1年到5年不能來。"],["王委員義川：那個人不重要，因為他們中國人太多。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，是邀請單位的部分。"],["王委員義川：他們的人來，身分是真的假的我們也搞不清楚，重點在申請的單位。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。邀請單位，按照我們現在的許可辦法，我們也是依個案情節輕重，從書面警示到一段時間不得再邀請相關的專業團體來臺交流，從6個月到5年，都可以裁處。"],["王委員義川：好，說到做到，說到做到！"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，我們會。"],["王委員義川：就這個案子，會不會接下來立案請馬英九基金會來說明，說他們是在做什麼，當時答應陸委會是那樣，到臺灣來卻亂搞。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然會，我們會依行政程序法的規定，會請他們就有利、不利的消息來做說明。"],["王委員義川：你們會做相關的處分？"],["邱主任委員垂正：會。"],["王委員義川：會召開這樣的會議？"],["邱主任委員垂正：會。"],["王委員義川：裁處的結果會跟外界公布？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然。"],["王委員義川：好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員。鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157798","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157798","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360987ba3898857a4044a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b59665153aeae6a5651927f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"丁學忠","委員發言時間":"12:14:19 - 12:20:21","影片長度":"00:06:02","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:14:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:20:21+08:00","duration":362,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.44409375,"end":3.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.37221875,"end":10.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.98284375,"end":11.556593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.556593750000001,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.590343750000002,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.77971875,"end":15.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.11284375,"end":16.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.84971875,"end":28.043468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.296593750000003,"end":39.501593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.704093750000006,"end":41.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.23971875,"end":42.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.53909375,"end":42.555968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.555968750000005,"end":43.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.180343750000006,"end":81.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.04409375,"end":51.398468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.672218750000006,"end":55.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.57096875,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.92534375000001,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.00784375,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.59784375000001,"end":99.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.27284375,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.80846875,"end":102.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.12471875,"end":104.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.31846875000001,"end":113.98784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.41409375,"end":113.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.51096875,"end":135.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.24596875,"end":138.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.01784375,"end":147.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.16909375,"end":143.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.16034375,"end":144.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.68721875,"end":151.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.14221875,"end":152.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.93534375000002,"end":153.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.47534375,"end":154.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.75784375,"end":156.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.68159375000002,"end":157.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.47034375,"end":165.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.57471875000002,"end":167.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.88659375,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.77221875,"end":174.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.44659375,"end":188.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.42909375000002,"end":180.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.04909375,"end":181.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.07346875000002,"end":187.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.42346875,"end":207.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.05596875,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.73096875000002,"end":191.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.26221875000002,"end":195.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.54409375,"end":199.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.01534375,"end":209.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.58471875,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.34409375,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.37784375,"end":210.58034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.58034375000003,"end":210.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.90096875,"end":210.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.95159375,"end":210.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.96846875,"end":254.45534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.33971875,"end":239.28471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.87534375,"end":240.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.98034375,"end":244.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.71846875000003,"end":245.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.69596875000002,"end":255.31596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.31596875000002,"end":297.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.36221875,"end":257.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.13221875,"end":330.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.46846875,"end":305.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.70471875000004,"end":305.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.20284375,"end":338.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.15096875,"end":352.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.78284375000004,"end":345.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.17909375000005,"end":354.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.28721875,"end":359.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.48096875000005,"end":362.33721875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.452,"end":17.648,"text":"主委好!主委好!我每次來這村子,我來坐在這裡,大家都已經替我問候了。我總不知道要怎麼說了,也是要問啦,也是要講一下啦。你也知道說,我們最近這個月,大家比較關心的就是我們馬前總統的基金會邀請到陸森來"},{"start":26.296,"end":29.098,"text":"交流基金會審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":43.708,"end":67.833,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們校園的各種的學術交流還有校園之間的私生交流其實蠻多的不僅是馬英九基金會這一團那這一團當然我們從剛開始期待他是能夠帶來兩岸相互尊重健康有序的交流我們跟好多主管機關都一直在協助促成給他"},{"start":69.053,"end":70.433,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":99.433,"end":101.534,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":114.982,"end":119.003,"text":"有可能說出來我們不高興,但是因為我們是主人的身份,我們要有那種感動,下去交流。我們也希望透過這審議的交流,這很多企業都希望這審議的交流可以持續推動。"},{"start":135.008,"end":137.71,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":158.473,"end":161.336,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":175.512,"end":179.296,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":195.233,"end":197.274,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":223.167,"end":223.667,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":242.219,"end":243.56,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":261.195,"end":265.178,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":286.693,"end":286.893,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":310.492,"end":314.033,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":339.241,"end":353.426,"text":"麻煩說有什麼稍微查冊、稍微錯誤,我們用全面攻擊的方針,這樣也不是待客之道。其實我們都善意堆疊,正向循環。好,感謝各位,謝謝。感謝委員,謝謝。好,接下來請王逸川委員。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2754,"blocks":[["丁委員學忠：（12時14分）感謝主席，我請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：丁委員好。"],["丁委員學忠：主委好。我每一次寫的質詢稿，我坐在這裡，大家都已經幫我問好了，我也不知道要怎麼說起，但也是要問，也是要說一下。你也知道我們大家最近關心的就是馬前總統的基金會邀請陸生來交流，其實已經很久沒有正常的交流了，也受到媒體的關注。我想請問主委，對這個正常的交流，你有樂見嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。跟委員報告，我們校園的各種學術交流，還有校園之間的師生交流，其實滿多的，不僅是馬英九基金會這一團。對於這一團，我們剛開始期待是能夠帶來兩岸相互尊重、健康有序的交流，我們跟好多主管機關都一直在協助促成，給他們協助，讓他們能夠順利來臺，只是在這個過程當中，他們說的話傷害到臺灣人民情感，社會反彈、社會對立比較多，所以我們滿遺憾的。"],["丁委員學忠：善意的交流，我們都非常歡迎。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["丁委員學忠：雖然有可能是口誤，或是因為某種關係說出讓我們臺灣人民覺得不高興的話，但是我們是主人，客人來到我們家，他有可能喝醉而說了什麼話，我們也常常遇到，平常好好的人，酒一喝下去就亂講話了。他們有可能說出讓我們不高興的話，但是我們以主人的身分，要有度量來包容他，我們也希望透過這些善意的交流，很多企業都希望善意的交流可以持續地推動，促成我們經濟的發展，這是比較重要的，也是大家比較期待的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。感謝委員寶貴的建議。"],["丁委員學忠：這個延伸出來的問題，剛才很多委員都問過了，我就不要再說了。在這裡要跟主委討論一下，這次陸委會預算裡面，我看到明年的預算書裡面有一筆是2億5,957萬元，是用來捐助海基會，做為事務費，比今年多7,521萬，多出四成的錢。有人懷疑說，現在兩岸不是都已經沒什麼來往，關係已經急凍了，陸委會的新聞稿每一篇也是在和大陸互嗆，跟國台辦也只剩新聞稿和發言人的溝通而已，海基會跟海協會這兩個民間管道已經無話可說了，在這個狀況又要增加這些經費。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們增加對海基會經費的補助，最主要也是改變海基會的財務結構，讓它能夠專心，更主動地去服務兩岸的民眾，提高服務品質，讓更多人受惠，譬如說，關懷臺商子女回來參加夏令營、冬令營，過去只有120個人，現在夏令營就600人，然後冬令營還有增加。"],["丁委員學忠：這個我認同。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。而且到臺灣各地辦，我們也會到花東辦，也會到委員的故鄉或是各縣市去辦。"],["丁委員學忠：歡迎來我們雲林，來促進我們那裡的消費。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。這個都是在幫忙海基會擴大深入服務，所以這個預算都有很清楚的計畫，我們一定撙節預算使用，也做好兩岸溝通交流的工作。剛剛也有說，中國大陸的臺商需要我們的協助、關注，尤其現在中國大陸的經濟環境並不好，我們更要協助我們的臺商，不管是回來投資，還是到其他國家全球布局，或是留在中國大陸奮鬥，我們也也要祝福他們，提供他們轉型、升級的相關資訊，這個我們都會透過我們的海基會來協助，這些預算我們都會非常撙節。"],["丁委員學忠：我之前也一直強調，人跟人在一起是講信用，要用誠懇的態度來相處，這是最重要的。前兩天我們臺南有幾隊壘球隊去東莞參加慢速壘球錦標賽，他們回來跟我說，那邊氣氛很好，我昨天跟他們吃飯，他們跟我說氣氛都很好，和大陸那邊的人透過運動交流，氣氛都很好，希望我們一樣可以有這個精神，不要因為有一些差錯，一些錯誤，我們就用全面攻擊的方式，這樣也不是待客之道。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。我們都善意堆疊，正向循環。"],["丁委員學忠：好。感謝主委，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：感謝委員。謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請王義川委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157797","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360c114fa3632d8fce54a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b59665106c82363fbb529205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"12:06:34 - 12:14:12","影片長度":"00:07:38","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T12:06:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:14:12+08:00","duration":458,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.7565937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.09409375,"end":3.3890937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.114093750000002,"end":8.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.075968750000001,"end":9.970343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.56096875,"end":63.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.00409375000001,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.49096875000001,"end":80.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.77784375,"end":82.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.66784375,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.42284375,"end":102.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.63971875,"end":160.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.76159375,"end":157.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.32221875000002,"end":163.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.80284375000002,"end":168.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.91596875000002,"end":182.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.15846875000003,"end":192.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.14909375000002,"end":189.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.08534375000002,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.77284375000002,"end":194.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.71721875,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.33284375000002,"end":201.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.81721875000002,"end":207.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.33596875,"end":209.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.97284375,"end":210.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.02346875,"end":210.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.05721875,"end":210.20909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.20909375000002,"end":229.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.44534375,"end":211.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.96971875000003,"end":250.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.27159375000002,"end":242.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.92971875,"end":243.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.41034375,"end":246.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.10159375,"end":319.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.43784375,"end":258.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.66471875,"end":266.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.73596875000004,"end":268.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.59284375000004,"end":343.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.33596875,"end":343.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.09534375000004,"end":344.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.04034375000003,"end":388.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.93221875,"end":408.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.50909375000003,"end":396.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.75659375000004,"end":407.02221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.16971875,"end":440.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.21909375,"end":416.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.43846875,"end":416.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":439.28721875,"end":448.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.72159375,"end":441.09284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.61596875000004,"end":442.18971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.45534375000005,"end":443.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.00346875,"end":447.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.69096875,"end":448.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.60596875000005,"end":453.93471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.009,"end":3.211,"text":"請入委會我們的邱主委主委好主委好主委針對我們臺灣的觀光業他們的反應現在入客來臺真的人數也是非常的少那本席在這邊的資料包括我們交通部觀光署1至9月觀光營運調查報告"},{"start":27.665,"end":28.686,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":42.814,"end":46.918,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":65.555,"end":76.886,"text":"以目前的統計今年到9月才28萬5的人次那我們從今年的9月賦中國大陸就205萬那差距是7.2倍這是不是應該對吧"},{"start":83.108,"end":111.463,"text":"這個數字1到9月是對的對那這證明說兩岸平等平等的交流還做了不過那因為中國大陸十幾億人口沒有理由說我們到對岸那麼多人那他進來的人數還是相對的少很多對委員就您的事實證明現在是入客還沒有放他們的人到台灣來所以入客不來是因為中國大陸不讓他的觀光客"},{"start":111.823,"end":113.665,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":137.185,"end":139.446,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":161.323,"end":162.504,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":183.707,"end":184.267,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":202.754,"end":210.961,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":229.957,"end":233.42,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":250.876,"end":267.467,"text":"是,跟委員報告我們在2020年的時候中國大陸就不讓他的學位生到台灣來所以已經四年了所以該畢業都畢業所以他從你剛剛說的有一萬多人現在學位生只剩下一千多人"},{"start":268.127,"end":268.688,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":287.807,"end":315.972,"text":"要讓中國大陸學生他們對外有尋求他們留學的權益因為不少中國大陸的父母親打電話到我們學校來就說他們願意讓小孩來就讀但是就不得其門而入因為他們境外去到台灣來這個就讀學位呢是可能要由政府核准的這個在我們看來是不可思議但是這個就是事實不管是觀光客來台"},{"start":316.792,"end":322.717,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":344.216,"end":371.953,"text":"但是雖然在這種情況裡我想我們的教育部也不斷地去透過相關的這個對口單位不斷地跟他們講那麼希望有學衛生來就讀那麼我們學校之間有很多交流合作協議那這個也是那個研修生來的原因那所以我們一方面把臺灣的這個就是照顧陸生的一些方案做好"},{"start":372.273,"end":400.542,"text":"像我們今年年初就落實了這個陸森納入健保而且我們還完成了十項友善陸森的這些做法我們都不斷去對岸的說明我們歡迎陸森來臺救族的政策沒有改變我們也希望他趕快來因為陸森來他有個好處看到臺灣是一個自由民主國家看到我們這邊的民眾大家的生活條件都是比對岸好"},{"start":401.038,"end":403.718,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":431.203,"end":432.364,"text":"接著請丁學忠委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2731,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（12時6分）召委、與會同仁、所有政府官員。請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席（徐委員欣瑩）：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：吳委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：主委好。主委，臺灣觀光業反映，現在陸客來臺人數真的非常少，根據本席的資料，包括交通部觀光署1至9月觀光營運調查報告，在旅遊業平均房價的部分，早期我們臺灣的房價都過高，那現在計算起來稍微還有一點點便宜，那證明說，我們的旅遊業現在比較蕭條。根據本席的資料，從6月份持續規劃出團赴中國大陸的，3月至10月旅行業組團人次有16萬4,000人，陸客來臺，以目前的統計，今年到9月才28.5萬人次，從今年9月我們赴中國大陸的人次就有205萬，差距是7.2倍，這數字應該對吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個數字1到9月是對的。"],["吳委員琪銘：這證明兩岸平等交流還做得不夠，中國大陸有十幾億人口，沒有理由說，我們到對岸那麼多人，但是對岸進到我們這裡的人數還是相對地少很多，那要怎麼做改善呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。事實證明現在是中國大陸還沒有放他們的人到臺灣來，所以陸客不來，是因為中國大陸不讓它的觀光客到臺灣來，還設立了很多疊加的條件，所以我們也在持續地觀察，也呼籲它趕快加大加快放寬這個政策，讓陸客到臺灣來。不過，由於中國大陸現在提出了很多疊加的附加條件，我們認為非常不合理，而且在做完這些條件之後它才說要研究，我們也擔心這個將來成為對臺灣經濟脅迫的一個方式。所以我們對陸客來臺，是希望它趕快把人放過來，當然我們也要呼籲我們的業者跟國人，這裡面還是有風險，因為它是用政策驅動，不是市場驅動，這個部分我們也會跟我們業者多加宣導。"],["吳委員琪銘：其實我們這幾年在補助國旅、補助旅遊業、補助我們的飯店，政府投資很多，要是能平等，大家的交流也是要求我們陸委會跟中國大陸那邊做聯繫，他們人那麼多，他們出團，進來的跟出去的應該也是要比例差不多，才算比較合理啦，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，現在非常不對稱，我們去的人是7.2倍，所以這個還是很不對稱。"],["吳委員琪銘：對啊。7.2倍的差距太過大了，這一點是你陸委會的業務，你應該要跟他們來做聯繫，看要怎麼樣設法解套，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。我們努力。"],["吳委員琪銘：再來就是從疫情時期到現在，我們開放陸生來臺灣，早期是將近一萬人，我看資料，2020年是六千多人，2021年是四千多人，逐年下降，到2022年是三千多人，證明中國大陸來臺的陸生人數現在都明顯地少很多，要怎樣讓陸生來，這也是我們賴總統的政策。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。跟委員報告，在2020年的時候中國大陸就不讓它的學位生到臺灣來，已經4年了，所以該畢業就畢業，你剛剛說的有一萬多人，現在學位生只剩下一千多人，現在陸生在臺灣校園裡面比較多的就是研修生，在各校研修生還有兩千多人，不過他們如果還不放的話，這個人數會隨著時間推移，真的會越來越少。我們也呼籲中國大陸，應該要讓中國大陸的學生有對外尋求留學的權益，因為不少中國大陸的父母親打電話到我們的學校來，說他們願意讓小孩來就讀，但是不得其門而入，因為他們從境外到臺灣來就讀學位可能要由政府核准，這個在我們看來是不可思議，但這就是事實，不管是觀光客來臺，還是學生來臺，都要獲得他們政府的同意。那這個部分呢？有關於陸生或陸客的工作，因為不是市場驅動的，跟業者的努力或消費者的選擇無關，而是由政府政策驅動的，所以有相關的風險，雖然是這種情況，我們的教育部也不斷地透過相關對口單位，去跟他們講，希望有學位生來就讀。學校之間有很多交流合作協議，這也是研修生來的原因，所以我們一方面把臺灣照顧陸生的一些方案做好，像我們今年年初落實了陸生納入健保，而且我們還完成了十項友善陸生的做法，我們都不斷地去跟對岸說明，我們歡迎陸生來臺，就讀的政策沒有改變，我們也希望他們趕快來。"],["吳委員琪銘：因為陸生來有一個好處，他們看到臺灣是一個自由民主國家，看到我們這邊的民眾生活條件都比對岸好，所以陸生來臺灣，對我們臺灣相對都是很正面的。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是非常正面。"],["吳委員琪銘：這是我們要加強的，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。而且陸生來臺，那才是真正的交流，像今天一直討論那個訪團的爭議，因為是刻意的、有媒體的，所以不是自由、自在、自主、自然的交流，沒有「四自」環境的交流，真的無法充分溝通，充分諒解，都是因為某種理由在從事交流，這樣的交流不是最好的交流，最好的年輕人的交流就是學生的交流。"],["吳委員琪銘：所以陸生來臺，我們是保持著歡迎。我們還要再加油。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們會加油。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接著請丁學忠委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157795","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157795","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360fe7d7e0b0e66458c4a6acd55cc740f506cda09273b596651ef9928609a2109b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:54:11 - 12:06:19","影片長度":"00:12:08","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:54:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T12:06:19+08:00","duration":728,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.91659375,"end":3.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.57471875,"end":4.2497187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.2497187499999995,"end":6.207218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.0934687499999995,"end":8.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.82284375,"end":13.024718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.429718750000003,"end":13.851593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.10471875,"end":14.189093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.84721875,"end":17.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.715968750000002,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.42034375,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.36534375,"end":24.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.769718750000003,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.13159375,"end":33.392843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.29596875,"end":33.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.595343750000005,"end":37.071593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.74221875,"end":41.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.23971875,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.486593750000004,"end":74.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.87159375,"end":84.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.94596875,"end":86.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.22409375000001,"end":91.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.96596875,"end":96.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.50534375000001,"end":105.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.57284375,"end":102.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.39471875000001,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.73596875000001,"end":106.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.96784375,"end":129.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.21596875,"end":112.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.32471875,"end":118.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.93471875,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.94284375,"end":136.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.47784375,"end":139.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.46471875,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.64971875,"end":161.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.48659375,"end":164.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.85346875000002,"end":166.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.53659375,"end":167.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.02159375000002,"end":172.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.19409375,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.39596875,"end":179.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.32346875000002,"end":187.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.47409375,"end":197.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.31659375,"end":199.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.49784375000002,"end":199.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.62846875000002,"end":203.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.66221875000002,"end":199.74659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.88159375,"end":203.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.35784375,"end":210.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.96846875,"end":211.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.81221875,"end":212.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.16659375,"end":216.52034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.21221875,"end":218.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.32159375,"end":220.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.17784375000002,"end":231.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.77534375000002,"end":255.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.18284375000002,"end":244.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.83659375000002,"end":245.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.88971875000001,"end":260.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.17596875000004,"end":260.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.27284375,"end":262.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.38221875,"end":264.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.98534375,"end":268.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.23784375,"end":271.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.97159375,"end":275.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.90346875,"end":281.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.45534375,"end":283.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.96971875,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.13284375,"end":302.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.40971875,"end":307.29096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.21909375,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.59409375,"end":313.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.27721875000003,"end":315.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.91409375,"end":320.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.22971875,"end":323.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.96346875,"end":327.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.65534375000004,"end":325.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.22034375000004,"end":328.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.37221875,"end":329.00909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.49846875000003,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.02096875,"end":334.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.96596875,"end":340.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.37034375,"end":343.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.46659375,"end":348.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.66846875000005,"end":349.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.64721875000004,"end":352.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.68096875000003,"end":350.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.66784375000003,"end":357.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.61284375,"end":356.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.70096875,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.21971875,"end":362.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.86471875,"end":364.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.48034375000003,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.12096875000003,"end":372.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.03596875000005,"end":379.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.90034375000005,"end":381.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.16534375000003,"end":391.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.20596875,"end":395.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.66534375000003,"end":398.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.44971875000005,"end":399.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.85034375000004,"end":401.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.53346875000005,"end":409.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.60409375,"end":411.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.54471875,"end":421.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.52221875000004,"end":420.62346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.37409375000004,"end":427.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.98096875000005,"end":431.71034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.60471875,"end":464.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.46034375000005,"end":467.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":468.43034375,"end":470.80971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.29909375000005,"end":472.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.31596875,"end":472.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.49721875000006,"end":482.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.04846875000004,"end":486.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.46159375,"end":492.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.76034375,"end":506.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.49596875000003,"end":519.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.15221875,"end":525.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.67034375,"end":531.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.12534375,"end":533.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.36096875,"end":537.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.4115937500001,"end":540.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.0522187500001,"end":543.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.5578437500001,"end":545.6840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":546.0890937500001,"end":562.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.02409375,"end":558.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.8797187499999,"end":565.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.03534375,"end":574.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.6540937500001,"end":591.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.76971875,"end":600.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9328437500001,"end":608.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.3915937500001,"end":614.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.09096875,"end":620.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.5078437500001,"end":624.0515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":620.55846875,"end":621.3684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.80721875,"end":622.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.5959687500001,"end":627.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":624.4565937500001,"end":624.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.49846875,"end":630.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.00409375,"end":636.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":637.85534375,"end":647.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.45721875,"end":652.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.65096875,"end":654.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.50284375,"end":657.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.29534375,"end":657.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.4978437500001,"end":664.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.28159375,"end":664.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":665.3447187500001,"end":666.5090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.4797187500001,"end":669.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.5634687500001,"end":670.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":670.94721875,"end":672.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.7022187500002,"end":680.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":674.6428437500001,"end":675.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.09346875,"end":683.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":683.85659375,"end":690.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.1853437500001,"end":686.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.45034375,"end":692.9015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.73284375,"end":696.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.8928437500001,"end":695.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.78284375,"end":697.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.0147187500002,"end":700.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":699.48284375,"end":713.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.7084687500001,"end":717.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.06221875,"end":719.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.28971875,"end":726.07784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.935,"end":30.472,"text":"徐委員好吳董事長因為董事長說政策是他嘛大方向那沒關係秘書長如果要從旁協助本席也不反對好本席首先想請問邱主委是請問昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴6小時後又很快的解嚴了您知道這個消息嗎"},{"start":31.435,"end":33.136,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":54.651,"end":73.901,"text":"成為破壞自由民主制度的點點點。最後親愛的公民們,我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅,立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥清朝反國家勢力等等。"},{"start":74.961,"end":90.913,"text":"本席想請教您啊,這種說法,我相信你們都有看新聞,所以我剛剛念,只是提示一下,我相信你了解他宣布戒嚴的理由。我想請教,這種說法,會不會有一天成為台灣宣布戒嚴的理由?您認為?"},{"start":92.014,"end":111.996,"text":"我想不可能因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統都堅持自由民主的憲政體制所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由沒錯所以我們要共同宣誓"},{"start":112.577,"end":133.088,"text":"台灣民主法制得知不易,所以我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說,昨天發生的當時,您知道嗎?執政黨的Thread上面有一些言論今天早上又撤下了。您應該知道吧?也就是說我們的鄰居,韓國發生了動盪。"},{"start":137.466,"end":139.647,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":163.335,"end":174.163,"text":"我只問你贊不贊成這種類比對於昨天韓國的局勢我們是高度關切不能拿來類比成台灣吧你就贊不贊成嘛贊成就贊成不贊成就說不贊成啊是委員我對這個那個立法院是我沒有掌握到我沒法回復謝謝"},{"start":188.51,"end":191.391,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":217.307,"end":245.385,"text":"入委會跟海基會存在的目的按照入委會的這個你的施政你的預算書裡面有講你們我們入委會的施政目標跟海基會也都有提到要依賴總統的政策理念以對話取代對抗以交流取代圍堵追求兩岸的共存共榮您認同吧這是你們寫的認同或不認同就可以了當然認同對"},{"start":246.807,"end":262.741,"text":"我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗,你們是以放話,你們不斷的挑釁對岸,不斷的放話,還有限制人民的講話。"},{"start":265.223,"end":292.219,"text":"現在剛剛我看蘇曉慧委員也問您了自由、民主、人權、法治都一樣重要怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論剛剛很多位委員不管在野黨或執政黨的委員針對大陸青年來台我們台灣現在變成沒有言論自由啦我們要用政治的力量用這個政治我們用"},{"start":293.08,"end":295.363,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":311.673,"end":322.678,"text":"我們不要一直的放話我現在就請教你您身為陸委會主委上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話對話不是放話有沒有對話"},{"start":323.991,"end":342.844,"text":"我想我們經常在呼籲對岸。好,那本席想請問你,您知道有兩岸熱線電話開通嗎?您知道這件事嗎?那個是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的這個……所以從這個民進黨執政以後,兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了,是嗎?"},{"start":349.738,"end":371.733,"text":"本席想請問有沒有你現在既然都大家都口口聲聲說要用對話取代取代我們是都敞開大門是中國大陸用政治前提好嘛那現在重點就是2015年12月30日兩岸熱線電話開通請問至今有沒有用過嗎"},{"start":373.206,"end":395.123,"text":"我想對岸設置的這個政治的障礙,讓兩岸沒有溝通。我們經常在呼籲對岸。就是對岸設置障礙,我們的對話一定要好好的進行,不要只是放話。因為時間的關係接著,你們說要以交流取代圍堵,交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流。"},{"start":395.703,"end":421.545,"text":"那官方的交流我再我看了一下兩個單位的這個報告我們只看到官方交流就列三項今年一整個你來到立法院報告就列三項活動這個實在是太少了實在是太少但是呢本席要說的是我們民間的交流非常的熱絡你應該也知道好民間交流"},{"start":423.43,"end":451.088,"text":"既然熱絡,那我們就要詢問我們臺海的這種政治經濟關係在你們主政之下真的是持續緊張那民間既然有社會維持和諧的互動可是我們發現今天也很多委員有質詢不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流你們的門檻越來越嚴格"},{"start":452.509,"end":463.018,"text":"你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵為什麼我們優先圍堵這個兩岸的交流呢本席舉幾個例子好不好舉幾個例子你學術研討"},{"start":465.526,"end":492.646,"text":"在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆啊,為什麼?就這個回答。是,跟委員報告,有關於學術交流啊,校際之間的都還在進行。你講的是兩岸這個社台機構的交流啦。沒有沒有,我在講學術喔。如果是學術交流的話,各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都在進行。我現在不是在講進行不進行。"},{"start":493.787,"end":518.833,"text":"現在民間要進行結果申請的部分你們的這個申請的這個審查的越來越嚴格比疫情之前還嚴格比如說現在要求陸委會要求15類大陸人士包含宗教文化體育學術來台從事各種專業交流需要專案申請"},{"start":520.202,"end":524.025,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":534.523,"end":562.081,"text":"所以從我短短的質詢我們就知道我們陸委會跟海基會我們可以好好的對話不對話就用放話然後兩岸的情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的民間一直要交流然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋"},{"start":562.961,"end":590.86,"text":"所以這一塊就讓我們覺得大陸委員會大家知道陸委會是讓您就是陸委會這個單位跟大陸能夠做就像你們上面所寫的你要促進兩岸的和平共榮不是不斷的促進兩岸的這種挑釁或者是對立我們發現我們官方做的是這樣本席要再說明就是就像你看"},{"start":591.801,"end":619.61,"text":"假設是像客委會,客委會他是做什麼?他就是要對客家族群能夠建立一個很好的一個互動的關係。請問國會聯絡人做什麼?國會聯絡人就是要來國會,讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話,老是造成這個行政單位跟立法院的對立,這個國會絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣。"},{"start":620.558,"end":622.139,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":637.898,"end":642.662,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":665.402,"end":675.965,"text":"我們有阻擾,我們會協助正常健康有序的交流。我剛剛問的你也沒有回答,剩下的時間就請你回答。你審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格?你說因為兩岸的局勢,兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣?"},{"start":691.662,"end":717.599,"text":"我要跟委員報告所以你不是贊成民間交流嗎?結果你越來越嚴格啊沒有,是比較嚴謹,沒有嚴格啦所以啊,我跟你講,你們都用文字全部都用文字然後呢,實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流本席希望你們能夠具體改善好,謝謝謝謝,謝謝委員"},{"start":720.4,"end":722.022,"text":"謝謝徐昭偉的質詢,謝謝我們邱主委,謝謝吳董事長,謝謝羅秘書長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2673,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時54分）謝謝主席！本席有請邱主委、吳董事長。"],["主席：請邱主委和吳董事長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：還要請吳董事長，因為董事長說大方向的政策是他管嘛。沒關係，秘書長如果要從旁協助，本席也不反對。","本席首先想請問邱主委，昨天深夜南韓尹錫悅總統宣布戒嚴，6小時後又很快的解嚴了，您知道這個消息嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，昨天晚上大家都很清楚。"],["徐委員欣瑩：他宣布戒嚴的理由您知道嗎？沒關係，本席很快地念一下。他的理由就是指他們的在野黨「企圖透過立法獨裁來癱瘓國家的司法和行政系統，推翻自由民主制度，本應成為自由民主基礎的國會卻成為破壞自由民主制度的……」，他講了一堆，最後是「親愛的公民們，我宣布戒嚴是為了保護自由人民免受朝鮮共產主義勢力的威脅，立即剷除掠奪我國人民自由和幸福的無恥親朝反國家勢力……」。本席想請教您，我相信你們都有看新聞，所以我剛剛念的只是提示一下，我相信你瞭解他宣布戒嚴的理由，我想請教，您認為這種說法會不會有一天成為臺灣宣布戒嚴的理由？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想不可能，因為我們的政府不管是從蔡總統還是從賴總統……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，你覺得不可能就可以了，我只要問你可不可能。"],["邱主任委員垂正：都堅持自由民主的憲政體制。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你如果這樣繼續講，我要要求暫停時間。","所以您也同樣不會同意這種戒嚴的理由，沒錯，所以我們要共同宣示臺灣民主法治得之不易，我們大家要不分黨派一同維護。但是本席在這裡還是要很遺憾的說，昨天發生的當時，您知道嗎？執政黨的Threads上面有一些言論，今天早上又撤下，您應該知道吧？也就是說我們的鄰居韓國發生了動盪，我們不該幸災樂禍！我們不應該幸災樂禍！我們更應該謹言慎行，怎麼會這樣po文後接著今天凌晨還是什麼時候又撤下？而且把韓國拿來比喻成臺灣是非常不適當的。所以請問主委，你是不是也不贊成這種比喻？把韓國昨天的情況拿來比喻臺灣。"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，因為我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我只問你贊不贊成這種類比？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對於昨天韓國的局勢，我們是高度關切，持續密注。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以不能拿來類比成臺灣吧？你就說贊不贊成嘛！贊成就贊成、不贊成就說不贊成。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我對這個沒有掌握到，沒有辦法回復。謝謝！"],["徐委員欣瑩：你沒有掌握到，我現在就問你，昨天韓國的這種情況如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，你認同這種類比嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不可能啊！我想我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是可不可能，我說如果……"],["邱主任委員垂正：各政黨的基因都堅守自由民主的憲政。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不要浪費我的時間，我現在沒有說誰，我現在說的是如果有人拿來類比成臺灣，您贊同嗎？不贊同吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK！接著本席要就我們陸委會跟海基會存在的目的來請教，陸委會的預算書裡面有講到，陸委會的施政目標和海基會也都有提到，要以賴總統的政策理念，以對話取代對抗，以交流取代圍堵，追求兩岸的共存共榮，您認同吧？這是你們寫的，只要答認同或不認同就可以了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然認同。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們發現陸委會跟海基會實際的作為不是以對話取代對抗，你們是以放話，你們不斷的挑釁對岸，不斷的放話，還有限制人民的講話。剛剛我看蘇巧慧委員也問過您，自由、民主、人權、法治都一樣重要，怎麼會掌握權力之後限制人民的言論呢？剛剛很多位委員，不管在野黨或執政黨的委員，針對大陸青年來臺，我們臺灣現在變成沒有言論自由啦！我們要用政治的力量，用政權箝制人民的言論自由！既然是自由民主的國家、自由民主的社會，我們就應該要有言論自由。這是第一點，本席沒有要你回應。第二個，講到以對話取代對抗，我們不要一直放話，我現在就請教你，您身為陸委會主委，上任以來有沒有跟對岸對話？是對話，不是放話噢！有沒有對話？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有或沒有？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們經常在呼籲對岸相向而行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席想請問，您知道有開通兩岸熱線電話嗎？您知道這件事嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：那是在馬英九前總統的時候設立的熱線。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以從民進黨執政以後，兩岸的熱線電話就完全丟到垃圾桶裡了，是嗎？本席想請問，有沒有？現在既然大家都口口聲聲說要用對話取代……"],["邱主任委員垂正：兩岸的溝通、對話，我們都敞開大門，是中國大陸用政治前提……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好嘛，那現在重點就是2015年12月30日兩岸熱線電話開通，請問，至今有沒有用過？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對岸設置了政治的障礙，讓兩岸沒有溝通，我們儘量在呼籲對岸……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你看，你不斷地放話說就是對岸設置障礙。我們的對話一定要好好地進行，不要只是放話。","因為時間的關係，接著你們說要以交流取代圍堵，交流有官方的交流跟民間的交流，那官方的交流，我看了一下兩個單位的報告，只看到官方交流今年就列三項，你來到立法院報告，就列三項活動，這實在是太少了，實在是太少！但是本席要說的是，我們民間交流非常熱絡，你應該也知道。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，民間交流既然熱絡，那我們就要詢問了，我們臺海這種政治、經濟關係，在你們主政之下，真的是持續緊張，民間社會雖然維持和諧的互動，可是我們發現，今天也有很多委員有質詢，不管是宗教、文化、體育、學術的交流，你們的門檻越來越嚴格，你一直強調要以交流取代圍堵，那為什麼我們優先圍堵兩岸的交流呢？本席舉幾個例子，學術研討在疫情之前的標準還比現在寬鬆，為什麼？你就這個回答。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。跟委員報告，有關於學術交流，校際之間的都還在進行，你講的是兩岸涉臺機構的交流……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，沒有。我在講學術，就是舉辦學術研討會。"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果是學術交流的研討會，各校的學術交流都一直在進行。各種研討會、座談會都一直在進行。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是。我現在不是在講進行不進行，現在民間要進行，結果申請時你們的審查越來越嚴格，比疫情之前還嚴格，譬如說，現在陸委會要求15類大陸人士，包含宗教、文化、體育、學術，來臺從事各種專業交流，需要專案申請。疫情之前都沒有那麼繁複的行政程序，為什麼現在特別繁複呢？所以你們說一套做一套，這樣真的不好。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有。現在因為兩岸情勢也改變，過去在疫情前，解放軍的軍機飛越海峽中間都很少，現在是天天在我們周圍軍機艦擾臺。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以從我短短的質詢，我們就知道，我們的陸委會跟海基會可以好好地對話卻不對話，就用放話，然後兩岸情勢的緊張是我們官方造成的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想是對岸！"],["徐委員欣瑩：民間一直要交流，然後又被我們自己這裡阻擋，所以這一塊就讓我們覺得，大家知道，就像你們所寫的，陸委會這個單位是要促進兩岸的和平共榮，而不是不斷地促進兩岸的挑釁或對立，我們發現我們官方做的是這樣！本席要再說明的就是，像客委會，客委會是做什麼？就是要對客家族群建立一個很好的互動關係。請問，國會聯絡人做什麼？國會聯絡人就是要來國會，讓行政單位跟國會能夠有很好的互動。如果國會聯絡人老是放話，老是造成行政單位跟立法院對立，這個國會聯絡人絕對就是不合格嘛。現在陸委會跟海基會就是這樣，你們做出來的情況，讓民間感嘆……"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，我們是對等、尊嚴、健康、有序、正常的交流，我們都持續推動。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我看到你們寫得非常冠冕堂皇，我說的這個都是學界，因為學術交流不會受政治影響，他們持續交流，您本身也是學者，學者就是純粹學術，他們私底下不斷地感嘆，學者跟本席反映，陸委會變成阻止交流委員會。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有。我們都持續來協助，正向看待，給予必要的協助。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有都是你們講的，可是我們的國人就強烈感受，他們辦一場研討會，而且學術上的交流很不容易，但是被官方層層阻撓，這一點本席非常……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有阻撓，我們會協助正常、健康、有序的交流。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我剛剛問的，你也沒有回答，現在剩下的時間就請你回答，你們審查為什麼比疫情前還要嚴格？你說因為兩岸的局勢，那兩岸局勢從過去到現在不都是這樣？你不是贊成民間交流嗎？結果你越來越嚴格啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，是比較嚴謹，沒有嚴格啦。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我跟你講，你們都用文字，全部都用文字，然後實際的作為真的沒有讓兩岸共榮共存，也沒有促進兩岸的和平跟交流，本席希望你們能夠具體改善。好，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐召委的質詢，也謝謝我們邱主委，謝謝吳董事長，謝謝羅秘書長。","接下來請吳琪銘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157792","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157792","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083607851578ea9d117d74a6acd55cc740f5094948cb68dbf16ab30ded3c40876aedc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:38:08 - 11:53:57","影片長度":"00:15:49","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:38:08+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:53:57+08:00","duration":949,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.14909375000000002,"end":1.7522187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.0897187500000003,"end":5.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":7.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.012843750000002,"end":8.974718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.29534375,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.759093750000002,"end":13.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.180968750000002,"end":13.497218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.05409375,"end":16.180343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.12096875,"end":18.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.33159375,"end":23.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.33096875,"end":26.828468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.43596875,"end":30.405968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.45221875,"end":33.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.962218750000005,"end":38.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.91096875,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.58159375,"end":42.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.70346875,"end":45.627218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.09971875,"end":48.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.79534375,"end":52.579718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.322218750000005,"end":55.515968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":57.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.82784375000001,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.219718750000006,"end":62.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.75534375,"end":63.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.96596875,"end":65.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.40034375,"end":67.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.10471875,"end":69.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.65721875,"end":71.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.78346875,"end":72.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.13346875,"end":73.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.75346875000001,"end":76.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.08221875000001,"end":79.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.84971875000001,"end":82.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":83.12346875,"end":83.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.52846875,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":86.00909375,"end":87.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.13971875,"end":88.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.82721875,"end":90.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":88.86096875000001,"end":89.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":89.80596875,"end":91.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.66221875000001,"end":92.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.06721875000001,"end":92.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.72534375000001,"end":93.92346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":94.39596875000001,"end":96.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.15096875,"end":97.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":98.44596875,"end":99.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":100.50471875000001,"end":102.41159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":102.96846875,"end":103.87971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":104.63909375,"end":105.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.07346875,"end":107.62596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.00159375000001,"end":107.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.62596875000001,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.86221875000001,"end":111.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.13159375000001,"end":115.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.52784375,"end":115.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.42221875000001,"end":115.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.96221875,"end":120.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.31659375000001,"end":116.35034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.99096875000001,"end":126.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":125.39534375000001,"end":130.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.36909375000002,"end":132.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.97221875,"end":135.62159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":134.87909375,"end":136.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.63409375,"end":137.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.19096875,"end":137.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.76034375,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.80221875,"end":141.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.49346875,"end":148.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.34096875,"end":149.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.06659375,"end":153.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.93096875,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.52971875,"end":157.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.71096875,"end":160.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.61346875,"end":162.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.55409375000002,"end":165.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.79409375,"end":167.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.81034375000002,"end":171.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.51471875000001,"end":171.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.13909375,"end":180.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.43721875,"end":183.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.51721875,"end":185.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.06096875,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.49096875,"end":189.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.00971875000002,"end":195.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.57846875,"end":196.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.01284375,"end":198.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.71721875,"end":199.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.35409375,"end":200.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.09221875,"end":204.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.48409375,"end":206.76659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.03221875000003,"end":214.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.47846875000002,"end":219.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.47346875000002,"end":220.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.77284375000002,"end":220.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.54909375000003,"end":223.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.97909375,"end":224.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.58659375000002,"end":229.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.35784375,"end":232.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.88909375,"end":234.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.18409375000002,"end":236.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.98971875,"end":237.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.25534375,"end":241.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.23784375000002,"end":246.03471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.42284375000003,"end":247.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":246.79409375,"end":248.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.19471875000002,"end":249.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.21159375000002,"end":252.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":252.02534375000002,"end":252.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":252.05909375000002,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.09284375000001,"end":254.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.01659375000003,"end":254.08409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.08409375000002,"end":256.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.32034375,"end":254.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.67471875,"end":254.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.39596875,"end":262.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.55534375,"end":265.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.28034375000004,"end":269.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.35596875000005,"end":270.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.29596875000004,"end":275.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.90346875,"end":278.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.02159375,"end":276.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.07221875,"end":278.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.22784375000003,"end":279.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.75096875,"end":282.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.93221875,"end":280.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.96596875,"end":281.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.27346875,"end":284.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.15096875,"end":286.65284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.32784375,"end":289.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.09534375000004,"end":291.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.52534375,"end":295.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.32221875000005,"end":299.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.25409375000004,"end":300.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.75596875,"end":303.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":303.91596875000005,"end":304.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.18159375000005,"end":307.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.98284375000003,"end":309.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.72096875,"end":311.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.82596875,"end":315.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.67784375,"end":319.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.55909375000005,"end":320.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.48284375000003,"end":345.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.86534375,"end":332.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":334.96596875,"end":335.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.26409375000003,"end":344.80409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.10346875000005,"end":349.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.71096875,"end":351.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.29659375,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.37221875,"end":355.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.85284375000003,"end":358.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.30409375000005,"end":359.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":359.90721875,"end":361.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.25284375,"end":362.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.10909375,"end":366.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.21409375,"end":369.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.64409375,"end":374.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.76534375,"end":376.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.86659375000005,"end":377.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.22909375,"end":380.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.59159375,"end":382.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.62096875000003,"end":383.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.89909375,"end":386.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.44721875000005,"end":388.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.35409375,"end":391.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.35784375000003,"end":395.39534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.40784375000004,"end":397.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.94346875,"end":400.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.49159375000005,"end":401.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.19596875,"end":404.22096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.87909375000004,"end":405.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.56659375000004,"end":407.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.98409375,"end":408.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.97971875,"end":409.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.36346875000004,"end":411.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.05096875000004,"end":414.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.25284375,"end":417.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.80534375,"end":418.14284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":418.53096875,"end":420.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.09596875000005,"end":421.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.54721875,"end":425.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.22596875000005,"end":428.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.04409375,"end":430.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.69346875,"end":433.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.19534375,"end":434.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.68034375,"end":435.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.26659375,"end":438.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.30846875000003,"end":439.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.31659375000004,"end":441.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.95346875,"end":442.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.30346875000004,"end":445.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.63221875000005,"end":447.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.26471875000004,"end":449.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.34034375000005,"end":452.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.19659375000003,"end":452.73659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.44534375,"end":453.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.71096875,"end":463.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.27909375,"end":465.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.23659375000005,"end":468.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.20659375,"end":471.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.87284375,"end":476.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.63159375000004,"end":478.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.11221875,"end":480.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.23846875000004,"end":482.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.49971875000006,"end":485.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.53721875,"end":487.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.54971875,"end":488.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.39346875,"end":488.98409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.70971875000004,"end":491.09346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.59971875,"end":493.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.96221875000003,"end":494.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.16034375000004,"end":495.80159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.81409375000004,"end":498.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.61971875,"end":499.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.96971875,"end":502.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.58534375000005,"end":503.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.20096875,"end":506.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.48346875000004,"end":507.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.20471875000004,"end":510.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.46596875000006,"end":517.1653437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":514.09409375,"end":514.7859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.7859687499999,"end":514.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.48596875,"end":532.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.85909375,"end":533.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.80409375,"end":543.7097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.24159375,"end":543.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.76034375,"end":545.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.49846875,"end":546.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.86971875,"end":574.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":548.68784375,"end":549.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.74284375,"end":575.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.3672187500001,"end":576.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.41346875,"end":576.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.3415937500001,"end":578.9109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.50159375,"end":581.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.64471875,"end":582.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.0747187500001,"end":584.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":584.42909375,"end":593.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.3390937500001,"end":593.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.57534375,"end":593.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.59221875,"end":593.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.71034375,"end":593.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.7947187500001,"end":596.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.35971875,"end":598.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.22846875,"end":607.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.1428437500001,"end":609.4209687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":609.43784375,"end":609.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.47159375,"end":619.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.50409375,"end":619.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.42784375,"end":623.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.27534375,"end":626.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.51159375,"end":624.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.32971875,"end":627.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":626.51534375,"end":627.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.7978437500001,"end":629.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.68346875,"end":632.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.9953437500001,"end":636.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.0959687500001,"end":638.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.73284375,"end":641.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":641.7365937500001,"end":643.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.74471875,"end":647.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":645.61784375,"end":650.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.8828437500001,"end":652.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.5534687500001,"end":656.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.72159375,"end":659.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.53534375,"end":663.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.0959687500001,"end":670.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.3315937500001,"end":687.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.9953437500001,"end":688.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":688.34534375,"end":689.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.61534375,"end":688.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.07096875,"end":689.1553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.3915937500001,"end":697.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.9822187500001,"end":691.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.78721875,"end":701.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.94721875,"end":700.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.6215937500001,"end":713.3372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.07971875,"end":716.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.47596875,"end":717.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.72034375,"end":719.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.2390937499999,"end":722.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.53409375,"end":733.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.5247187500001,"end":728.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.4272187500001,"end":733.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.8234687500001,"end":733.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.89096875,"end":742.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":738.7847187500001,"end":739.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":739.96596875,"end":739.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":739.99971875,"end":740.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.0334687500001,"end":740.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":742.49721875,"end":751.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":750.4115937500001,"end":751.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.91346875,"end":758.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":757.7690937500001,"end":758.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.5790937500001,"end":759.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.95034375,"end":766.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.3459687500001,"end":767.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.7253437500001,"end":768.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.63659375,"end":770.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":770.45909375,"end":773.3447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.5559687500001,"end":781.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.3784687500001,"end":773.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.86784375,"end":774.4584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":781.7822187500001,"end":783.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":785.0390937500001,"end":785.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.0515937499999,"end":787.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.19471875,"end":791.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":791.73846875,"end":792.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.7722187500001,"end":791.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":792.10971875,"end":808.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":793.0209687500001,"end":794.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":801.39096875,"end":806.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.1453437500002,"end":807.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.1240937500002,"end":813.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":809.11971875,"end":809.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.18221875,"end":814.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.77284375,"end":816.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.6459687500001,"end":816.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":817.72596875,"end":834.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.8103437500001,"end":818.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":819.24471875,"end":820.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":828.0703437500001,"end":830.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.55096875,"end":834.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.2297187500001,"end":834.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":834.46596875,"end":834.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.0734687500001,"end":836.2040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":835.3603437500001,"end":843.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.9497187500001,"end":844.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":845.6540937500001,"end":852.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":851.4084687500001,"end":853.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":853.04534375,"end":858.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.82096875,"end":858.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.12471875,"end":864.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.8915937500001,"end":864.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":864.9084687500001,"end":865.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":865.1784687500001,"end":865.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.3640937500002,"end":878.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":865.95471875,"end":865.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":865.98846875,"end":866.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":878.72909375,"end":881.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.7834687500001,"end":883.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":884.8884687500001,"end":886.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.64346875,"end":888.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.46596875,"end":898.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.29971875,"end":902.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":902.65784375,"end":906.7922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":907.1128437500001,"end":911.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":911.80409375,"end":914.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.9597187500001,"end":916.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.3728437500001,"end":919.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":920.35971875,"end":921.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":922.3003437500001,"end":923.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.75159375,"end":925.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":925.4897187500001,"end":926.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.5359687500002,"end":927.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":928.29096875,"end":929.4553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":930.6028437500001,"end":931.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":932.3915937500001,"end":932.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":933.18471875,"end":935.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.69909375,"end":937.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":937.0659687500001,"end":939.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":940.66034375,"end":945.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":945.72284375,"end":946.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":947.93346875,"end":949.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.229,"end":14.844,"text":"首先我想請那個海基會的吳董事長跟我們的秘書長好不好,吳董事長坐了一半天啦,給你頂檔一下好,請吳董事長,羅副董事長見秘書長吳董事長"},{"start":20.93,"end":47.955,"text":"這個你接董事長其實外界期待了一律過去的經驗經歷了當過國代代表當過監察委員而且是媒體界的大佬什麼風風浪浪沒有見過什麼都見過啊那今天老實講我是很遺憾我沒有辦法接受你接了董事長一個月你說你熟悉度不如羅文嘉"},{"start":49.861,"end":52.222,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":77.39,"end":103.787,"text":"這個我不曉得我剛才還請求主席啊說由秘書長做業務報告的時候你在不在場我在那裡看電視我講兩個理由我知道你說你比較不熟啊他來了幾個月你現在有回應的嗎好你回應請我說第一個理由啊是因為他比我早5個月到是嗎你是講這個理由第二個理由啊是因為這個海基會章程規定內部的事務由秘書長重圍"},{"start":106.087,"end":107.488,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":131.451,"end":137.413,"text":"來這裡我們都問大事比如說來來來我們請請來這邊是大事沒有錯請問你啊這個送給大陸梅花路有沒有跟你報告事先跟內委員報告有我們事先知情"},{"start":153.916,"end":155.438,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":169.875,"end":187.553,"text":"表面上他最小,因為海基會接受陸委會的委託,陸委會最大。他租過來海基會董事長,租過來秘書長,結果發現倒過來,輪家最大,輪家的關係踏實。報告委員我們沒有大小之分,我們只有分工合作而已。我的感覺就有大小啊。"},{"start":188.644,"end":190.905,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":208.083,"end":209.044,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":233.328,"end":245.627,"text":"開拓新的局我覺得不好事事都交給秘書長可能董事長也要展現出你的一些作為一個月不能講短"},{"start":246.516,"end":247.576,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":276.107,"end":278.048,"text":"五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財五、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":301.929,"end":302.91,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":321.656,"end":345.397,"text":"幫委員,如果要作出這樣的處分,我們也要來自於我們的相關主管機關,包括教育部,他要提出來。會做這樣的決定嗎?不,我們還是有一定程序,畢竟他還是,我們也沒有馬上來處理,因為他是學生,而且基金會有一些說明,但是我們有鄭重的,"},{"start":346.498,"end":348.839,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":379.281,"end":386.667,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":406.578,"end":408.199,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":421.141,"end":444.369,"text":"但是所以我們叫全日台北我們就中華台北但是大陸原來也用中華台北但是2017年以後大陸的政府以及媒體全面的把中華台北改成中國台北我方不接受但是他們用語啊這個小女生現在20出頭歲2017年7年前她可能讀過中歐"},{"start":450.37,"end":450.53,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":464.309,"end":465.49,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":483.547,"end":484.908,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":505.239,"end":519.108,"text":"就這個樣子然後你們扣一個就是一個小女生她幾幾年來在大陸受的教育包委員你聽我講話Chinese Taipei就是他們就是講中國台北所以對他們是這樣講那一個女生這樣講有這麼嚴重嗎今天她不是不是團長她在團裡面沒有任何的職位她就是one of the participant"},{"start":532.918,"end":534.7,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":548.855,"end":576.41,"text":"所以當然我們對他的所說的話確實已經引發傷害臺灣人民情感了而且我們臺灣內部有很多不同立場發生了很多對立這個都不是我們從事兩岸交流願意看到的那這也相關已經違反了我們許可辦法還有我們基金會自己切結的一些內容所以我們會做行政調查那你們要把他趕走嗎"},{"start":577.51,"end":578.591,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":599.244,"end":600.725,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":627.917,"end":629.039,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":643.803,"end":646.564,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":660.589,"end":663.69,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":689.457,"end":689.617,"text":"兩位長官、幾位長官"},{"start":714.11,"end":715.311,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":735.49,"end":761.291,"text":"健康有序的交流我們都歡迎也會提供協助但是這個交流團已經有一點違反我們既有的這些許可辦法之前所以我們還是要進行必要的行政相關調查我要問一下羅秘書長因為今天都沒有跟你對話我仔細的看了一下不能接受九二共識因為九二共識就是"},{"start":764.654,"end":765.554,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":788.24,"end":790.681,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":817.762,"end":818.883,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":845.697,"end":863.844,"text":"我想最主要的癥結的問題就在北京當局不肯正視中華民國客觀事實存在所以他要來正視中華民國客觀事實存在這是最根本的問題沒有正視中華民國的存在就沒有兩岸對話交流的基礎可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":865.425,"end":865.765,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":884.906,"end":885.066,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":904.56,"end":905.341,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":932.416,"end":935.019,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2590,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時38分）謝謝主席及各位先進。首先，請海基會吳董事長和秘書長。吳董事長已經坐半天了，讓你動一下，稍微活動一下。"],["主席：請吳董事長和羅副董事長兼秘書長。"],["賴委員士葆：吳董事長，你接董事長外界都很期待，以你過去的經驗和經歷，你當過國大代表、監察委員，而且是媒體界的大老，什麼樣的風風浪浪你沒有見過？你什麼都見過。老實講，今天我很遺憾，我沒辦法接受你接任董事長已經1個月，卻說你的熟悉度不如羅文嘉，所以請他全權代理，這個話我不接受。主席太客氣了，他接受，但是我不接受。洪申翰被任命為勞動部長不到一個禮拜，他今天來了，他也可以說他不熟，他找次長來，可以這樣嗎？董事長，難道你不知道兩岸？外界對你期待那麼高，結果第一炮你就讓我失望，你要不要對我這句話回應一下？"],["吳董事長豊山：我不曉得剛才我請求主席由秘書長來做業務報告時你在不在場？"],["賴委員士葆：我在那裡看電視。"],["吳董事長豊山：我講2個理由。"],["賴委員士葆：我知道，你說你比較不熟，他已經來幾個月了。"],["吳董事長豊山：你不是要我回應嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：好，你回應，請。"],["吳董事長豊山：第一個理由是他比我早到5個月。"],["賴委員士葆：是嘛！你就是講這個理由。"],["吳董事長豊山：第二個理由是海基會的章程規定內部的事務由秘書長綜理……"],["賴委員士葆：今天很多是政策性的喔！"],["吳董事長豊山：所以他的報告會讓大家更滿意，我只負責大的原則，我認為我沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：所以小事你不管，小事給秘書長？"],["吳董事長豊山：小事我不管。"],["賴委員士葆：這個是小事喔？今天來立法院國會是大事喔！吳董事長！來國會是大事喔！你當過國大代表，來這裡接受人民的監督。"],["吳董事長豊山：您曲解我的意思，來這邊是大事，內部的業務就是秘書長的事情。"],["賴委員士葆：來這裡我們都問大事。"],["吳董事長豊山：來這邊是大事沒有錯。"],["賴委員士葆：請問邱主委，羅文嘉秘書長講要送給大陸梅花鹿，事先有沒有跟你報告？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟賴委員報告，有，我們事先知情。"],["賴委員士葆：他講到「二六共識」，有沒有跟你報告？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個是後來當天在……"],["賴委員士葆：他都先講啦！所以你們三位當中，我感覺最大的是羅文嘉，表面上他最小，因為海基會接受陸委會的委託，陸委會最大，再過來是海基會董事長，再過來是秘書長，結果我發現是倒過來，羅文嘉最大！羅文嘉關係特殊啦呴！"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，我們沒有大小之分，我們只有分工合作而已。"],["賴委員士葆：但我的感覺就是有大小啊！差很多啊！對不對？羅文嘉笑嘻嘻的。他也來找過，我覺得他的態度誠懇，勇於任事，他增加預算我也不會太為難，該砍的砍一點，基本上他只要多做事，我都支持。但是大家應該知道他背後嘛，因為他的歷練，大家不敢小看，我知道邱主委心裡想什麼，想說「嗯！羅文嘉哪一天爬到我頭上，所以現在不能得罪」，就這樣而已。"],["邱主任委員垂正：歡迎來超越。"],["賴委員士葆：就這樣而已啦！就這句而已啦！吳董事長，我對你寄予厚望，兩岸陷入僵局，找你當董事長就是希望能夠開拓新的局面，我覺得不好事事都交給秘書長，可能董事長也要展現出你的一些作為，一個月不能講短啦，勞動部長才一個禮拜。"],["吳董事長豊山：謝謝委員的鼓勵。"],["賴委員士葆：好不好？努力一下啦！"],["吳董事長豊山：謝謝委員的鼓勵，不要挑撥離間。"],["賴委員士葆：我沒有挑撥離間，怎麼說是挑撥離間呢？這個叫挑撥離間？喔！我那麼厲害，我會挑撥離間耶！我是就事論事，我怎麼看都是羅文嘉現在最大尾啦！海基會兩位長官請回，我要請問邱主委。吳董事長對我剛剛講的話好像很不爽，沒關係啦，你要常常來。","主委現在對大陸團喊打喊殺，結果你可以看到人家簽了切結書，馬英九基金會簽了切結書，提到「若有違反則立即停止所有接續行程」，就是說你就處分啊！處分就是stop here、停了，到現在也沒有啊！你有種把它停掉！你可不可能今天把它停掉？不管他什麼時候走，今天做決定把它停掉，有這樣決定嗎？準備這樣做嗎？準備這樣做嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：報告委員，如果要做出這樣的處分，也要來自於我們的相關主管機關，包括教育部，他要提出來，我們在……"],["賴委員士葆：會做這樣的決定嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還是有一定的程序，我們沒有馬上來處理，因為畢竟他還是學生，而且基金會有一些說明，但是我們有鄭重的警告他，提醒他可能……"],["賴委員士葆：有這麼嚴重？今天是學生講，今天如果是團長講就不一樣，如果今天是團長講的，我完全支持你的作法，但今天不是團長講的耶，他是一個小女生。來、來！讓你知道一下，一個「Chinese Taipei」兩岸各自表述，就好像「九二共識 一中各表」。羅文嘉秘書長可以一起看喔！我們講「Chinese Taipei」，老實講這個名稱我也不滿意，我們出去外面代表臺灣參與體育賽事，當然是臺灣隊，但沒有辦法，因為國際的現實、政治的現實，我們要參與只能稱「Chinese Taipei」，人家掛國旗，我們掛五個圓圈的奧運旗，老實講我們也不滿意，但是如果沒有忍辱負重地參與，我們怎麼會有這麼多金牌呢？這次中華隊或臺灣隊怎麼會能夠拿到12強的金牌呢？所以我們叫「Chinese Taipei」就是「中華台北」，大陸原來也用「中華台北」，但是2017年以後，大陸的政府以及媒體全面的把「中華台北」改成「中國台北」，我方不接受，但那是他們的用語啊！這個小女生現在20出頭歲，2017年就是7年前他可能才剛讀國中，他懂什麼？就是接受教育，接受教育幾年來順口就說出「中國台北」，有這麼嚴重嗎？今天如果是帶團的團長、當過清大校長的人來講這個話，你的作法就對，今天那個側翼媒體因為看到馬龍這麼受歡迎，受歡迎到什麼程度，主委你知道嗎？到今天為止，陸續還有在位的我們政府官員，有處長、有組長、有科長打電話給我們辦公室，詢問我們馬龍的行程在哪裡，說是買了乒乓球拍要給他簽名，迷到這個程度！連我們的公務人員都要去追他，就這個樣子。然後你們扣一個小女生，他幾年來在大陸受的教育，「Chinese Taipei」他們就是講「中國台北」，所以對他們是這樣講，一個女生這樣講，有這麼嚴重嗎？今天他不是團長，在團裡面沒有任何職位，就是one of the participant，有這麼嚴重嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，我想由於很多事實我們還在釐清，包括他是不是基金會安排出去講的，他也對外說「我代表代表團」，當然他所說的話確實已經引發傷害臺灣人民情感，而且引起我們臺灣內部很多不同立場發生了很多對立，這個都不是我們從事兩岸交流願意看到的，也已經違反了我們相關的許可辦法還有我們基金會自己切結的一些內容，所以我們會做行政調查。"],["賴委員士葆：那你們要把他趕走啊！如果這樣你可以把他驅逐啊！如果你認為事態嚴重就驅逐啊！現在就驅逐，可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果有持續嚴重的話，我們已經跟基金會說這個已經引發國內非常多人的反感，認為他這個是不妥不當的談話。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你們給他的最後通牒是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們希望他還是要依照他們所答應政府主管機關的……"],["賴委員士葆：他們答應了嘛！你們也沒有停止他們的行程。"],["邱主任委員垂正：把它完整走完，我們也會立刻展開行政調查的程序，讓這個事情該怎麼樣做我們就來進行處分。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你的意思是不排除今天就把他趕走？你的意思是這樣子嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想我們還是希望他能夠走完。"],["賴委員士葆：希望走完喔！那以後這樣的團你們歡不歡迎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果是這樣的團，會造成我們國內不同意見的人的對立，傷害臺灣人民的情感，我們當然是不歡迎。"],["賴委員士葆：如果他是無意的呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然這就要事實認定。"],["賴委員士葆：如果是無意的呢？"],["邱主任委員垂正：事實要調查嘛！"],["賴委員士葆：我剛剛講過，2017那一年，全中國大陸就將「Chinese Taipei」講成「中國台北」，我們當然不接受，講「中國台北」我個人也不能接受，我也認為是被吃豆腐，我不接受，但是他們的官方語言是這樣子，他在國中的時候就被教育成這樣。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們對現在的交流團都採「三不一低調」原則，都不讓他們對外接受媒體採訪，是因為委員主持的協調會，我們也認為他們可能要對外怎麼樣，所以才讓他們跟外界的媒體有這個接觸。"],["賴委員士葆：所以這個又是我的錯？又是我的錯？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，我們感謝委員的協調，但是你如果是按照我們的法規、按照你的聲明書去走就不會有這個問題。"],["賴委員士葆：主委，你看協調完畢以後，我們字裡行間還稱讚陸委會、稱讚教育部，感謝再感謝！因為生殺大權在你手上。可是我要提醒幾位長官，在現在兩岸氣氛這麼不好的狀況下，有這麼一個團來，老實講要感謝喔！因為現在沒有人敢來啊！一來就這樣子容易被扣帽子啊！所以他們來，我們現在沒有任何的降格，我們還是維持賴清德總統的基調，對不對？有人來就不錯啦！"],["邱主任委員垂正：只要是對等尊嚴、相互尊重，健康有序的交流，我們都歡迎也會提供協助，但是這個交流團已經有一點違反我們既有的這些許可辦法之嫌，所以我們還是要進行必要的行政相關調查。"],["賴委員士葆：我要問一下羅秘書長，因為今天一直都沒有跟你對話。我仔細的看了一下，你說不能接受「九二共識」，因為「九二共識」就是中華人民共和國……"],["羅副董事長文嘉：就是我講的「一個中國　一國兩制」。"],["賴委員士葆：其實「九二共識」沒有這樣子啦！"],["羅副董事長文嘉：有，他確實這麼講，白紙黑字。"],["賴委員士葆：大陸把它扭曲了，我們不接受嘛！一樣的，他講「中國台北」我們不接受，他講這個我們也不能接受嘛！對不對？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：對。"],["賴委員士葆：那倒過來講可不可以？只要有中華民國的空間，我們可以接受「九二共識」，可以嗎？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：「九二共識」白紙黑字沒有所謂共識，從來沒有！中國到現在所有白紙黑字、正式發言都說「九二共識」是體現「一個中國」，這個中國就是中華人民共和國。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，那是我們加的啦。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：我想賴委員也是非常明瞭，對岸的立場從來沒變過。"],["賴委員士葆：主委很清楚，我從頭到尾都講中華民國，沒有中華民國就沒有「九二共識」。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：沒有中華民國基本上就沒有我們現在存在的基礎，所以這點是我們共同的想法，但「九二共識」從來沒有真的有九二「共識」，這是被創造出來而且會造成矮化我中華民國消失的危險。"],["賴委員士葆：不會矮化啦！"],["羅副董事長文嘉：會危險啦！"],["賴委員士葆：可不可以講沒有中華民國就沒有兩岸對話的基礎，可以這樣講嗎？主委，可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想最主要的癥結問題就在北京當局不肯正視中華民國客觀事實的存在。"],["賴委員士葆：那我們要講嘛！我們要講！"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以他要來正視中華民國客觀事實存在，這才是根本的問題。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我要講，沒有正視中華民國的存在，就沒有兩岸對話、交流的基礎，可以這樣講嗎？可以吧？"],["羅副董事長文嘉：可以。"],["賴委員士葆：可以吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["賴委員士葆：這句話大聲講，不用怕他啦！他不愛聽，我們也要講，這就是捍衛中華民國我們的主權嘛！捍衛中華民國在臺灣這一塊地方，我們行使我們的民主自由。老實說，大陸這個團來這裡不是什麼統戰團啦！被我們統戰還差不多，他們每天回去看電視就覺得王義川好會講，說不定還愛看王義川的節目，認為非常讚，變成在統戰他們，你們怕什麼？還怕被統戰？什麼叫統戰團？來被我們統戰啦！他們回去晚上都看我們的call in節目哩！非常愛看，我們的call in節目可以罵官員，可以罵這裡、罵那裡，罵東罵西，這種空氣沒得找啦！多辦幾個團只有好、沒有壞啦！那個小女生就不要為難啦！真的如果有那麼嚴重，那你把它停掉，你可以今天就把它停掉，你把他趕出去，要做就做大一點，不要似有若無。"],["主席（黃委員建賓代）：謝謝賴士葆委員的質詢，也謝謝我們邱主委，謝謝吳董事長還有羅秘書長。","接下來我們請徐召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157791","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157791","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360f81782097ffaccbab1ffdbb9442e4f6e94948cb68dbf16ab4c7f6e4539bc04505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:46:21 - 11:52:32","影片長度":"00:06:11","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:46:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:52:32+08:00","duration":371,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.29596875,"end":13.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.973468750000002,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.54721875,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.65659375,"end":94.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.24409375,"end":95.39159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.39159375000001,"end":95.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.50096875000001,"end":98.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.68659375,"end":106.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.18846875000001,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.12034375,"end":103.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.77409375,"end":105.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.61346875000001,"end":110.57909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.79846875000001,"end":111.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.43971875000001,"end":112.51971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.84034375,"end":147.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.29471875000002,"end":200.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.59034375000002,"end":208.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.96471875,"end":210.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.09096875,"end":216.90846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.16596875000002,"end":216.94221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.94221875000002,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.83221875,"end":221.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.46471875,"end":222.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.64159375000003,"end":226.32471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.70909375000002,"end":223.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.83096875,"end":235.45409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.12534375,"end":247.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.70534375000003,"end":248.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.77284375000002,"end":249.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.94534375,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.43721875,"end":263.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.27659375,"end":264.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.56346875,"end":271.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.73221875,"end":265.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.71909375,"end":267.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.44034375,"end":271.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.08971875000003,"end":272.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.13596875,"end":273.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.46909375,"end":276.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.92846875000004,"end":280.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.96596875,"end":283.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.61534375,"end":343.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.21846875,"end":286.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.44534375,"end":291.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.04471875,"end":350.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.09034375000005,"end":349.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.22096875,"end":361.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.24596875000003,"end":356.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.54409375,"end":361.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.89846875,"end":362.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.48471875,"end":366.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.45471875000004,"end":370.50471875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.089,"text":"蕭院長"},{"start":17.317,"end":19.538,"text":"委員長,故宮的門票收入並不理想由這個數字告訴我們在108年你的預算數是10.99億但決算只有8.51億所以你的達成率是77.59"},{"start":33.105,"end":49.579,"text":"大幅下降到了110年度是5.4億,決算是3.6億,所以你的達成率還是都是下降當然到112年的時候收入整個預算2.3億,你的決算是3億多增加"},{"start":50.239,"end":72.307,"text":"此等於是這個達成率128.3%那雖然說你109年到111年有首度的回升但是跟疫情前你的差距還是很大所以本期要請教故宮是我們的國寶為什麼我們的門票收入竟然會越來越少那你要怎麼樣去精進它呢請做說明"},{"start":73.697,"end":74.017,"text":"怎麼進進呢?"},{"start":97.803,"end":98.644,"text":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":112.913,"end":137.477,"text":"一個月好我也應許給你因為在2015年故宮參觀的人數是亞洲第一名但是我們看到現在在下降觀光署我沒有看故宮你是89萬7中正紀念堂195萬奪下了冠軍所以我希望你一個月內把這個經濟方案來給本席那接下來本席要跟你討論的一個議題也就是說我們故宮有69萬間的這個館廠"},{"start":145.121,"end":165.977,"text":"但是我們看到只有16位的修護人員那文物跟人一樣啊文物如果生病他還是要看醫生啊他剝落啊等等這些事項但是文物如果良好他還是要保養啊對不對他還是要維護所以在這樣的一個情況之下你面對修護人員的不足的這個問題你要怎麼去處理"},{"start":167.978,"end":189.343,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":189.343,"end":192.005,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":218.943,"end":222.185,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度中央政府總預算二、審查114年度"},{"start":247.722,"end":266.546,"text":"你去盤點好不好說明清楚我們之前的話是提出11位要增加11位啦但是現在的話就是大概總我們現在暫時總委員兩位院長你這樣滿意嗎你11個連兩層都不夠他只給你兩個你滿意嗎你實際上是這麼困難對不對這些場館如果不見了就不見了欸"},{"start":278.728,"end":295.92,"text":"關長裏面的作品的寶貝這不能有閃失啊你趕快再去努力好不好我們已經替你看到了這個問題你一定要趕快去努力好不好最後一個議題我給你功課博物館開放資料的深度運用計畫當中我要請問喔請問"},{"start":300.003,"end":314.259,"text":"我們現在整個結合數位科技開放資料與數位化的轉換建構數位化的教育資源這是非常的重要應用整個進行資料的AI教學運用等等"},{"start":315.08,"end":330.552,"text":"所以本席要請教你要怎麼維護我們的故宮在開放資料跟藝術教育服務能夠去結合因為你到了114年底你這個計畫是到明年114年為止但是本席認為似乎還是沒有辦法去完整所以一個議題要怎麼樣去結合第二個114年明年到會不會繼續有其他的方式來推動嗎請做說明"},{"start":344.082,"end":344.482,"text":"我們現在開始處理解凍案"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1155,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時46分）謝謝召委及與會的同仁，首先請故宮的蕭院長。"],["主席：蕭院長。"],["蕭院長宗煌：楊委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。故宮的門票收入並不理想，由這個數字告訴我們，108年你的預算數是10.99億，但決算只有8.5億，所以你的達成率是77.59%，大幅下降。到110年度的預算數是5.4億、決算是3.6億，所以你的達成率也還是下降。當然到了112年的時候，整個預算是2.3億、決算是三億多，是增加，達成率是128.3%，雖然較109年到111年有回升，但是與疫情前的差距還是很大，因此，本席要請教，故宮是我們的國寶，為什麼我們的門票收入竟然會越來越少？你要怎麼樣去精進它呢？請做說明。"],["蕭院長宗煌：疫情影響的確對故宮造成很大的打擊，雖然在疫情後逐步回升，但回升的力道不如預期，所以我們也一直針對這個部分進行檢討。把博物館的展覽、把博物館的推廣教育做好是應該的，明年的話……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼精進呢？你提供書面資料給本席，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你知道狀況正在下降，那是我們的國寶，該如何讓它精進，書面資料需要多久時間可以給本席？精進方案。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個精進方案一個月就可以了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要那麼久？"],["蕭院長宗煌：一個月。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個月，好，我也應許給你。因為2015年故宮的參觀人數是亞洲第一名，但是我們看到現在正在下降，我們看到觀光署的資料，故宮這邊是89萬7，中正紀年堂是195萬，奪下了冠軍，所以我希望你在一個月內將精進方案提供給本席。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要與你討論一個議題，故宮有69萬件館藏，大概的初估是如此，但是我們看到只有16位修復人員，文物其實與人一樣，如果文物生病了也是要看醫生，像是剝落等等的問題，但是即使文物良好也是需要保養，對不對？它還是需要維護。在這樣的情況之下，面對修復人員不足的問題，你要怎麼處理？你是要增加人力或是有什麼樣的方式可以解決這個問題，因為我們的館藏不容許有任何的閃失，一閃失就沒了，怎麼辦呢？所以本席要請教，你要怎麼做呢？目前你們有與臺師大簽署合作備忘錄，希望以建教合作的方式讓學生畢業後直接進入故宮擔任修復師，目前你是這麼做，但本席認為似乎還是不夠，怎麼辦？請做說明。"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然最好是不要讓文物生病，因此，基本上，保存維護的工作是很重要的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個要做，但是你們的人力不足，怎麼辦呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：人力不足的部分，目前我們也與……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：臺師大？"],["蕭院長宗煌：希望人總那邊可以讓我們增加人力……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你預計要增加多少人？現在有16人，你預計要增加多少人？"],["蕭院長宗煌：以目前來講，故宮南院的部分是希望增加2個人，因為也沒有要……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你太客氣了！本席已經告訴你，總共有69萬件館藏寶貝，目前只有16人負責修復，現在你告訴我只要增加2人，不夠啦！你去盤點一下，好不好？說明清楚！"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們之前是提出要增加11位，現在是暫時准許南院增加2位。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，這樣你滿意嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為博物館的編制人力……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要求增加11位卻只給2位，連二成都不到，這樣你滿意嗎？實際上你們是這麼困難，對不對？這些館藏如果不見了就是不見了耶！這些館藏作品寶貝不能有閃失啊！你趕快再去努力，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們已經替你看到了這個問題，你一定要趕快去努力，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，我給你功課，在博物館開放資料深度運用計畫當中，現在整個開放資料予以數位化的轉換，結合數位科技，建構數位化的教育資源，這是非常的重要，進行資料AI教學運用等等，請問你要怎麼推動我們的故宮開放資料與藝術教育服務能夠結合，因為你這個計畫是到明年114年為止，但本席認為似乎還是沒辦法完整，因此，一個議題，要怎麼樣結合？第二個，明年114年到了之後會不會繼續？有其他的方式推動嗎？請做說明。"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，AI、STEAM的教學是當前的趨勢，故宮會持續的推動，沒有問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以不會到114年就截止……"],["蕭院長宗煌：不會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會持續嘛……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，當然會持續，因為這是未來的趨勢。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你要拜託媒體幫忙寫，不然很多的藝術文化者都很緊張。我們不只是到114年，而且會繼續，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢，謝謝。","現在開始處理解凍案，共計3案，請議事人員宣讀，並進行討論與協商。","(一)國立故宮博物院函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(一)第3目「綜合規劃與推廣行銷」預算凍結300萬元專案報告，請查照案。","(二)國立故宮博物院函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(二)第4目「文物安全、管理與修護」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。","(三)國立故宮博物院函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議(三)第5目「新故宮計畫」預算凍結2,000萬元書面報告，請查照案。"],["主席：我們現在一案一案來處理。","第(一)案，在場的委員有沒有意見？沒有意見，如果沒有意見的話，這一案就准予動支，提報院會。","第(二)案，關於113年度總預算中第4目的「文物安全、管理與修護」，當時是凍結100萬元，現在書面報告已經提過來了，請問在場委員有沒有意見？","宜瑾委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝主席。故宮這個瓷器庫房改箱為櫃的規劃期程，從今年起到2030年已經開始分年執行，本席是同意解凍，也會持續監督。只是除了文物毀損的問題之外，我要提醒一點，故宮要關注文物竊盜的問題。在2023年8月中旬英國的大英博物館坦承文物遭竊，事發一個星期後館長引咎辭職。我們看到別人要想想自己，故宮文物是否都有確實編入文物典藏紀錄、是否有能力及時發現文物失竊的狀況？我想策展人的提件、清點機制是否確實，或者是否有引進重量偵測儀器，文物一旦被拿起，保全系統就會啟動之類的啦！這些都要非常的兼備，所以我是要提醒故宮，對於整個防竊機制要做好萬全的準備，以上。"],["蕭院長宗煌：好，謝謝委員提醒，我們會重視。"],["主席：好，謝謝。如果沒有其他的意見，這一案也准予動支，提報院會。吳委員有要補充，沒問題。"],["吳委員沛憶：我只是想關心一下，之前有故宮的圖檔被放到淘寶網站從事營利行為，這個就是侵權了嘛！你們也有抽查，並請淘寶要下架，現在已經都全數下架了嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：目前葉元之委員說還有，但是我們的同仁一直清查，只要上架就會去申訴，基本上，它都會下架。"],["吳委員沛憶：好，就是我們會主動去看，只要看到，就會請它下架。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，但是他們還是會上去。"],["吳委員沛憶：沒錯，我知道，所以要請你們持續的關注，謝謝。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：這一案的預算解凍沒有問題，我們就准予動支，提報院會。","第(三)案是關於113年總預算中的「新故宮計畫」凍結2,000萬元的部分，兩位委員有沒有意見？沒有意見，但本席有一點意見。","第一個，當時凍結的2,000萬元，以總預算來講，其實金額並不大，但是我今天把整個書面報告稍微看了一下，而且本席今天在這裡主持了一個上午的會議，我發現還是有非常多委員針對新故宮計畫提出很多還是不清楚的地方，希望故宮能夠再做說明，甚至還針對新故宮計畫不同的地方都有很多的建議。像沛憶委員其實也很關心、也很擔心，因為工程是連續的，如果少了經費是否會讓工程變成爛尾樓或是無法繼續下去等等。因此，我在想這個說明是不是需要再更仔細一點，故宮要不要針對這個部分說明一下？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上，故宮博物院的預算是延續性的預算，因為政府的預算就是一塊大餅，如果總預算分配的比例減少，自然而然會壓縮到國發會……"],["主席：院長，這個當然是，這個是基礎，好不好？預算的精神、基礎。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["主席：我現在的意思是解凍要有充分足夠的理由，像剛剛上面的兩案，大家就都沒有意見，但是關於新故宮計畫這件事情，你看，今天質詢的委員對於新故宮計畫有這麼多的意見與不了解的地方，我認為是不是應該要再說明，才能夠解凍這筆2,000萬元？"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，我們新故宮計畫的執行率，一般來講，都會超過九五成，其實有時候是預算運用的問題，像今年南院的廠商就要我們依照原先的規劃預撥經費，我們預撥經費的話，就不夠，不夠的話，有時候就會技術上拖到明年，如果有這個經費，當然我們就……"],["主席：院長，你說不夠的部分是不夠多少錢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：二億多。"],["主席：二億多？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["主席：與這個凍結案有什麼關係？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這是預付款。"],["主席：我自己是這樣建議，終究我們是支持故宮的，而且故宮整體預算也不是很多，但是我覺得錢還是要花在刀口上，如果我們今天要處理這個解凍案，但是這麼多委員對於新故宮計畫還是有這麼多意見，我認為故宮是不是需要再更詳細說明，我們要不要擇期再來處理？院長？兩位委員？"],["蕭院長宗煌：因為2,000萬元的數目不多，基本上，解凍之後這個經費還是會回到新故宮計畫，我們並不會將它運用到其他地方，因為它是公共工程的預算，我們是不是可以再補充書面資料，然後就先行解凍？"],["林委員宜瑾：既然院長都已經這樣講了，是不是就容院長再提一些書面資料，我們就先解凍？因為我們還要審預算，如果他提的書面資料真的還讓我們很不滿意的話，其實我們可以在審預算時再來處理，對不對？"],["主席：好，這樣好不好？其實剛剛沛憶委員提到的那個應該就是明年的預算，而且剛剛宜瑾講得很好，因為我們還要審預算，如果今天這個解凍案准予動支的話，我想是不是能夠請故宮就今天我們這麼多的委員只要有提到新故宮計畫相關疑問跟建議的，是不是3日內請你們回復各委員辦公室？為什麼我只給3天？事實上你們今天來這裡答詢就應該要答得出來了，但是今天可能還有一些沒有準備地很周全或是所問題目的資料，你們還沒有辦法準備起來，所以能不能3天內就今天所有委員有問到新故宮計畫，你們都詳實地給予回答？有關今天這個2,000萬的解凍，本席就沒有意見，這樣好不好？院長可以嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：遵照辦理。"],["主席：好，這樣子這個新故宮計畫2,000萬的解凍案，我們就准予動支，也提報院會。","解凍案處理完畢了，現在我們繼續質詢。","接下來，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","麥玉珍、麥玉珍，麥玉珍不在。","張嘉郡、張嘉郡、張嘉郡不在。","何欣純、何欣純不在。","王美惠、王美惠、王美惠不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉不在。","陳冠廷、陳冠廷、陳冠廷不在。","林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","今天質詢登記的委員均已發言完畢，關於今天會議作如下決議：報告及詢答完畢，委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報，對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答復部分，請相關機關儘速以書面答復。","113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案業已審查完竣，准予動支，提報院會。114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案、故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案相關提案請於12月12號下午兩點前提出，另定期繼續審查。","報告委員會，今天的議程處理完畢，現在散會，謝謝各位。","散會（12時2分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157790","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157790","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083606bd0b45cd6183427b1ffdbb9442e4f6e94948cb68dbf16ab174afd410f84480c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳沛憶","委員發言時間":"11:36:00 - 11:45:55","影片長度":"00:09:55","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:36:00+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:45:55+08:00","duration":595,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.6340937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.050968750000001,"end":8.603468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.04221875,"end":12.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.52221875,"end":16.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.63596875,"end":82.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.64846875,"end":17.918468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.86596875000001,"end":88.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.65409375,"end":100.23471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.97721875,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.98534375000001,"end":107.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.93409375,"end":115.25346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.01409375,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.57409375,"end":123.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.72471875000001,"end":124.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.15909375000001,"end":127.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.97721875000002,"end":129.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.73221875000002,"end":213.55034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.55034375000002,"end":229.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.07096875000002,"end":232.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.80471875,"end":239.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.24221875,"end":241.39409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.39409375000002,"end":241.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.86659375000002,"end":242.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.25471875000002,"end":274.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":274.36784375,"end":279.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.83534375,"end":289.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.38221875,"end":294.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.07346875,"end":300.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.25846875,"end":316.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.60596875000005,"end":333.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.97034375000004,"end":340.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.02409375,"end":346.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.10846875000004,"end":341.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.20909375,"end":369.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.89721875000004,"end":372.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":373.66034375000004,"end":380.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.60846875000004,"end":391.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.74596875000003,"end":395.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.09159375,"end":407.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":403.95096875,"end":413.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":414.24471875,"end":422.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.71596875,"end":438.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.33784375000005,"end":440.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.02971875000003,"end":467.99159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.58659375,"end":478.74096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.89284375000005,"end":505.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.45409375,"end":512.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":512.60909375,"end":538.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.5078437500001,"end":540.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.4865937500001,"end":585.7959687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.9228437500001,"end":584.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.2053437500001,"end":591.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.9553437500001,"end":594.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.95909375,"end":594.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.61,"end":12.229,"text":"請吳佩儀委員質詢。謝謝主席,我請國立故宮博物院蕭中皇院長。好,蕭院長請。"},{"start":15.806,"end":37.64,"text":"委員長好今天是我們故宮的預算報告案的詢答那委員會關心很多故宮的規劃以及未來的進展那其中有關於我們故宮的參觀人士很多人在關心那也很多委員提醒故宮要來持續的增加我們的行銷等等相關的計畫那要行銷就要錢"},{"start":43.003,"end":51.291,"text":"所以我更加關心的是因為現在立法院正在討論這個才化法的修法尤其是在野黨的版本依照我們現在的試算倘若在野黨的才化法通過修法通過的話我們整個國家整體的文化預算中央的文化部會受影響的會減少133億那文化部以外"},{"start":69.667,"end":89.343,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":90.23,"end":93.092,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":115.726,"end":118.688,"text":"國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":143.166,"end":143.606,"text":"主管預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管預算案有關"},{"start":170.896,"end":200.52,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":200.58,"end":229.64,"text":"民間公司甚至到中國的官方海峽論壇的活動以中國台北故宮的名號來對我們國立故宮博物院從事侵權的新聞有沒有這樣的事情的確是有這個問題故宮博物院一直非常關切所以我們也透過兩岸的律師在大陸那邊提告這個案子基本上來講最近已經被接受了所以我們也有成功的案例"},{"start":230.06,"end":242.125,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":242.466,"end":253.912,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案二、審查11"},{"start":272.222,"end":293.82,"text":"對這個是預計要進行什麼樣的計畫呢這個我們會跟那個維基他們的系統裡面去把故宮的展覽上傳到那個系統裡面那基本上來講透過維基的話就可以了解故宮的展覽的內容所以除了圖片之外也包括了影音"},{"start":295.428,"end":314.146,"text":"錄音檔相關的這些素材也會進入到維基的開放?現在在談因為基本上來講的話合作的初期階段的話基本上我們用既有的展覽素材上去那未來的話當然會透過更進一步的一個合作的議題這個會逐年來討論"},{"start":316.63,"end":318.751,"text":"議員提到開放授權與授權有競合關係,目前對於Open Data及未來危機的合作,"},{"start":334.499,"end":354.533,"text":"規範上面有沒有什麼要提醒民眾的?因為其實我們是可以授權惡創嗎?怎麼樣是可以惡創但是又不會侵權?有沒有什麼要提醒民眾大家注意的?基本上來講的話open data的話就是像委員的資料就是我們可以不用申請然後不限用途不用互惠就可以直接下載"},{"start":355.213,"end":381.169,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":381.613,"end":392.534,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":392.739,"end":394.48,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展"},{"start":414.332,"end":421.757,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":440.229,"end":466.901,"text":"當然人力上面不夠可是對於博物館的文物保存的話基本上來講的話經常性的保存維護是比較重要的而不是說平常沒有照顧然後變成說讓這個文物生病了然後才去找醫生去修復所以基本上來講的話就是這個基本的維護工作故宮非常重視所以目前來講的話文物都可以處於一個非常穩定非常安全的狀態"},{"start":468.041,"end":475.871,"text":"人力它的根本其實是在人才我看到故宮是不是昨天才宣布我們跟台師大有一個合作的計畫能不能跟說明一下這個建交合作的內容故宮除了跟台師大之外的話其實我們前"},{"start":485.623,"end":512.568,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":512.708,"end":514.409,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":541.199,"end":547.187,"text":"故宮是我們國家非常重要的資產所以我們也很支持你們去進行跨單位跨領域的合作那我就來建議因為剛剛很多人提到說兒少的這個展覽或資源的推廣其實呢文化部從今年開始我們編列一個預算每年有6億"},{"start":560.103,"end":561.524,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":585.213,"end":586.214,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1124,"blocks":[["吳委員沛憶：（11時36分）謝謝主席，請國立故宮博物院蕭宗煌院長。"],["主席：蕭院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：吳委員早。"],["吳委員沛憶：院長好。今天是故宮預算報告案的詢答，委員會關心很多故宮的規劃以及未來的進展，其中有關於故宮的參觀人次，有很多人關心，也有很多委員提醒故宮要持續增加我們的行銷等等相關的計畫。既然要行銷就要錢、就要預算，所以我更加關心一點，因為現在立法院正在討論財劃法的修法，尤其是在野黨的版本，依照我們現在的試算，倘若在野黨的財劃法修法通過的話，我們整個國家的整體文化預算，中央的文化部將受到影響而減少133億，文化部以外，像是故宮，這類跨部會的文化支出將會受到衝擊而減少近88億。其中故宮非常重要的，也就是新故宮計畫，假設在野黨版本的財劃法通過，這個預算會減少18億，對於整個新故宮計畫來講是非常大的影響，所以我相當擔心！院長，新故宮計畫是一個幾年度的連續計畫？"],["蕭院長宗煌：它是一個九年計畫。"],["吳委員沛憶：九年計畫嘛！我們已經進行好多年、已經快要走一半了嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：其中包括了很重要的北院的整擴建工程、南院的國寶館，這是工程啊！工程最害怕的就是做到一半，錢沒了、預算沒了、計畫沒了，怎麼辦？變成爛尾樓啊！我非常的擔憂！我希望故宮可以好好的向國人說明，因為我相信新故宮計畫是國人眾所期待的，大家都會支持中央故宮編列這筆預算，要好好的向國人說明。","再來是最近的時事，馬英九基金會邀請中國學生訪臺，中國學生就以中國臺北來稱呼臺灣，馬英九基金會執行長蕭旭岑說這不過是中國一個習慣性的講法。我要講的是我們臺灣人從來沒有這個習慣，以棒球來說，有人習慣講臺灣隊、有人習慣講中華隊，這都是我們臺灣人的習慣，但中國臺北從來不是臺灣人的習慣，這是中國的壞習慣、一個陋習，甚至這個陋習已經衍伸到對臺灣全面性的霸凌，而中國臺北這個稱呼對臺灣霸凌的受害者之一，也就是我們的故宮。過去是不是曾發生中國的民間公司甚至到中國官方的海峽論壇活動，以中國臺北故宮的名號，對我們國立故宮博物院從事侵權的行為，有沒有這樣的事情？"],["蕭院長宗煌：的確是有這個問題，故宮博物院也一直非常關切，而且我們也透過兩岸的律師在大陸那邊提告，基本上，這個案子最近已經被接受了，所以我們也有成功的案例。"],["吳委員沛憶：我們已經提告，最近也立案了，對於故宮的權益，我們一定要強力的捍衛，好不好，院長？"],["蕭院長宗煌：好。"],["吳委員沛憶：其實故宮也跟上國際的潮流，一直在進行開放博物館的計畫，其中就包括了Open Data，我是非常的支持，因為這是一個文化近用權，希望讓更多人能夠使用我們的素材，但必須是非營利的，這樣也是協助故宮進行推廣。院長，最近9月我們是不是與台灣維基媒體協會簽署了合作備忘錄？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對。"],["吳委員沛憶：這是預計要進行什麼樣的計畫呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們會把故宮的展覽上傳到維基的系統，基本上，透過維基就可以了解故宮的展覽內容。"],["吳委員沛憶：所以除了圖片之外，包括影音及錄音檔相關的這些素材，也會進入維基的開放……"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，現在正在談，基本上，合作的初級階段是用既有的展覽素材上去，未來當然會透過更進一步的合作議題，這個會逐年討論。"],["吳委員沛憶：剛剛院長答復前面其他委員質詢時提到，開放與授權是有一個競合的關係，目前對於Open Data以及未來與維基的合作，在規範上有沒有什麼要提醒民眾？因為我們可以授權二創，怎麼樣可以二創卻又不會侵權，有沒有什麼要提醒民眾注意？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上，Open Data就是像委員的資料，我們可以不用申請、不限用途、不用付費，就可以直接下載。當然這個與圖版的IP會有一點競合關係，因為開放得越大，他可以自行上網下載，當然就不需要花錢去買。另外一個情況，如果是在維基的話，基本上它是CC BY4.0，也是一樣，資料上去之後都可以自由下載、自由運用，因為這已經是我們revise過去，屬於我們Open Data裡面的資料，所以不會有其他的問題。"],["吳委員沛憶：是，基本上，針對Open Data，我們就是鼓勵文化的近用，大家可以來協助故宮推廣，但我們是有專利權及商標權，這個部分不能被侵犯，這點要提醒大家。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，專利及商標的部分，我們是有品牌授權，另外有一個共創，以目前來講，基本上是故宮主要的獲利模式，而不是去賣圖片。"],["吳委員沛憶：好。上個會期也曾向院長關心過，關於故宮古物修復人力的問題，現在故宮有近69萬的藏品，但是我們的修復人力只有16位，院長覺得足夠嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：人力上當然是不夠，但是對於博物館的文物保存，基本上，經常性的保存維護是比較重要的，而不是平常沒有照顧，文物生病了才要找醫生修復。基本上，故宮非常重視基本的維護工作，因此，目前文物都可以處於非常穩定、非常安全的狀態。"],["吳委員沛憶：人力的根本其實是在人才，我看到故宮昨天才宣布與臺師大有一項合作計畫，能不能說明一下建教合作的內容？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮除了與臺師大合作之外，其實半個月前也與臺南藝術大學博物館學與古物維護研究所簽署了合作備忘錄，因為這兩所學校在文物修復上都有一個專責的組織或系所在進行，未來我們希望能與他們建教合作，讓學校的同學可以進到故宮實習，作為他們未來的職業或前進的動力。另外，南院的國寶館也有一個修復室，希望這個修復室未來可以成為學校進入職場養成的中繼點，到了故宮的文物修復室，我們會透過故宮文物基金的方式，讓他們開始實作領薪水，未來可以成為他們進入職場的一個中繼站。"],["吳委員沛憶：故宮是我們國家非常重要的資產，所以我們也很支持你們進行跨單位跨領域的合作，所以我要提出建議，因為剛剛很多人提到兒少的展覽或資源的推廣，其實文化部從今年開始編列了一筆預算，每年有6億要支持臺灣本土兒少影音節目的製播，公視也在今年成立了小公視兒童台，故宮過去也曾經與公視合作過兒少節目，但那已經是2007年的事了，因此，我建議故宮也可以與小公視合作，把我們既有展覽的內容進行更多兒少節目的推廣，院長回去之後能否與公視研議一下？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這是很好的機會，我會請同仁盡快與公視討論這個案子。"],["吳委員沛憶：謝謝院長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳沛憶委員。","本席要徵求在場兩位本委員會委員的意見，剛才本來是宣告在吳沛憶委員質詢完畢之後就要處理解凍案，但是後來因為楊瓊瓔委員已經坐在現場等了，我們是不是就等4分鐘的時間讓楊委員發言？可以喔！謝謝。","請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，時間為4分鐘，請準時，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157789","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157789","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360b53b8354be009c0f2ad4098cec3b17fd94948cb68dbf16ab0630bd2d7ebc433a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:27:11 - 11:42:44","影片長度":"00:15:33","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:27:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:42:44+08:00","duration":933,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.063468750000002,"end":9.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.662218750000001,"end":11.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.492843750000002,"end":15.184718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.336593750000002,"end":24.719093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.17471875,"end":26.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.36846875,"end":47.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.00659375,"end":61.72596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.14784375000001,"end":72.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.96471875,"end":90.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.41346875,"end":92.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.64096875,"end":94.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.66596875,"end":96.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.28159375,"end":97.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.41221875000001,"end":100.26846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.62284375,"end":104.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.52096875000001,"end":106.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.40659375000001,"end":109.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.49471875,"end":125.14221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.24346875,"end":141.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.44346875000002,"end":147.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.31159375000001,"end":162.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.77346875,"end":202.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.64909375000002,"end":259.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.00721875,"end":261.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.85909375,"end":263.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.58471875000004,"end":264.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.51284375,"end":271.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.31346875,"end":305.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.31221875,"end":307.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.10534375000003,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.20159375000003,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.55971875,"end":321.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.49534375,"end":324.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.07721875000004,"end":325.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.12346875000003,"end":326.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.96721875000003,"end":336.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.62409375000004,"end":337.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.29471875,"end":337.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.75034375,"end":337.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.76721875000004,"end":340.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.16784375000003,"end":339.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.31534375,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.09034375000005,"end":354.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.84909375,"end":356.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.65471875000003,"end":357.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.41409375,"end":358.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.64596875,"end":358.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.38846875,"end":367.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.90596875,"end":371.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.02784375000005,"end":371.90534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.90534375000004,"end":371.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.92221875,"end":376.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.90909375,"end":375.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.42784375,"end":383.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.30471875,"end":382.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.84034375000005,"end":399.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.19034375,"end":384.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.99909375000004,"end":393.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.97721875,"end":405.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.45721875000004,"end":426.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":405.73971875,"end":406.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.91096875000005,"end":417.56909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.79659375,"end":422.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.98159375,"end":426.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.83346875,"end":501.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.94409375000004,"end":518.2790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.78534375,"end":520.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.84409375,"end":523.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.53971875,"end":526.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.0834687500001,"end":541.4990937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.0222187500001,"end":559.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.96034375,"end":567.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":568.5834687500001,"end":587.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.95596875,"end":589.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.6772187500001,"end":596.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.7434687500001,"end":598.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.9922187500001,"end":626.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.17346875,"end":630.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.0209687500001,"end":632.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.24846875,"end":635.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.49284375,"end":640.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.28096875,"end":642.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":642.90096875,"end":643.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.9809687500001,"end":645.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.17471875,"end":648.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.54971875,"end":650.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":651.7434687500001,"end":653.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.6459687500001,"end":673.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.2590937500001,"end":723.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.51284375,"end":755.1028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.4740937500001,"end":756.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.85784375,"end":758.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":759.10221875,"end":760.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":760.3172187499999,"end":761.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":762.6965937500001,"end":764.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":765.3459687500001,"end":768.4172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.4172187500001,"end":772.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":770.49284375,"end":773.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":774.54284375,"end":776.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.23034375,"end":781.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":782.54159375,"end":791.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":792.1940937500001,"end":796.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":796.49721875,"end":798.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":798.31971875,"end":802.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.5134687500001,"end":801.2053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":801.9309687500001,"end":801.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":801.98159375,"end":811.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.0265937500001,"end":865.0434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":865.9040937500001,"end":867.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.24971875,"end":879.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":880.58534375,"end":884.3484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.82096875,"end":885.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":886.62659375,"end":887.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.2634687500001,"end":889.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.11971875,"end":903.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":904.0078437500001,"end":906.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.1297187500002,"end":910.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":910.3528437500001,"end":913.0359687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":913.05284375,"end":913.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.5715937500001,"end":929.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":930.2822187500001,"end":930.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.7378437500001,"end":932.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":932.9653437500001,"end":933.3872187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.106,"end":8.126,"text":"張複蜜"},{"start":27.426,"end":47.078,"text":"那今天的主題我想先主要做幾個回應第一個立法院對於破壞議場議事的任何的開會不管是空間或是所有的我們提供的軟硬體硬體部分該查該辦就要公平"},{"start":48.509,"end":70.376,"text":"過去基於議事攻防對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞這不是只有某一黨不是只有民進黨大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有所以說要處理我非常同意我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的然後都能夠循議事規則能夠好好來開會"},{"start":73.317,"end":73.617,"text":"同意（"},{"start":98.464,"end":116.71,"text":"那第二個我也要澄清一下在自由民主的臺灣不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路臺灣不可能走回戒嚴沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事臺灣從1949到198738年的戒嚴時間造成人民莫大的"},{"start":123.132,"end":123.312,"text":"委員：吳思瑤"},{"start":141.839,"end":161.605,"text":"過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨民進黨是站在反抗推翻威權的一方所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事這才是不折不扣的造謠"},{"start":162.845,"end":175.638,"text":"好今天呢審議立法院的預算立法院今年度編列下年度的預算最初是36億當中最大宗呢是在議事行政的支持佔54.38%20億左右"},{"start":179.842,"end":201.773,"text":"那對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列比例是4成大概是這樣子所以說立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政以及讓我們的議事支持的系統能夠非常穩健的進行這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方"},{"start":203.601,"end":228.858,"text":"我現在要就教於您現在立法院有個亂象越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍我們的人力物力怎麼來因應下一頁首先我想問一下在我們一一三憲判九之後針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的"},{"start":230.459,"end":258.14,"text":"所以立法院現在當務之急針對部分多部分是違憲少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好的來修訂讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器成為一整套非常精良的裝備"},{"start":260.522,"end":284.599,"text":"這應當是我們該做的事情吧是是那請問因為我們百分之五十四點三八的預算用在議事行政支持也百分之四十用在委員問政的優化協力那麼我們的法治局相關有關立法政策法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析評估諮詢公委員審查之參考"},{"start":287.461,"end":289.964,"text":"律法局局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長律法局長"},{"start":312.233,"end":314.756,"text":"在憲判第9號判決結果之後我們整理了有關在113年6月24號我們立法院三讀通過的"},{"start":326.178,"end":345.77,"text":"國會改革國會內會改革總共大概修正的是40個條文包含中華民國新華那一條條文那在憲判是之後我們法治局做了哪些研究分析怎麼樣來補正修法我們內部的有做相關的針對第9憲判是第9號對有關他"},{"start":349.124,"end":370.652,"text":"大陸灣的審查標的違憲或部分違憲總共有18條。好,那我們做了哪些的延期?你說的這些我當然都了解。那我們有做一個那個針對因為這次憲判是第9號是很特別的。他針對每一個項,項下的每一個都繫到那個條文的文字裡面。"},{"start":371.392,"end":391.699,"text":"所以我願意給時間啊你們要好好來做研析分析啊提出修法的建議啊那我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法的建議事後我們再把有再進行嘛那大概多久時間可以更因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別因為整套的違憲實在太多啊"},{"start":392.319,"end":400.962,"text":"向次是散落在各個條文所以說當然我願意給時間我只是責成你們應當進行中央編委已經有要求我們一個月之內我們會提供給司法法制委員會我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有名"},{"start":416.428,"end":418.189,"text":"現在使用的工具會卡卡的"},{"start":439.236,"end":458.757,"text":"你不曉得要適用這個條文前面合憲後面違憲所以現在立法院面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立比如說我們那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資這件事情的調查委員會也已經選舉出黃國昌召委"},{"start":461.98,"end":462.14,"text":"好,下一個。"},{"start":485.254,"end":489.639,"text":"那未來呢現在在協商的還有部會首場財產申報調查委員會他同樣的問題一樣立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院"},{"start":502.094,"end":526.593,"text":"那部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡如果廣義的部會首長狹義的才是立行政院的部會首長喔如果廣義的所有的行政機關的首長其實也包括我們的各院院長喔所以範圍不明確然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則但是可能這個案子"},{"start":528.103,"end":540.616,"text":"在野黨委員透過表決他還是會成立的我要說這是違憲的調查委員會在下一個還有一個呢就是勞動部的這個霸凌調查委員會我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查徹查"},{"start":542.336,"end":565.38,"text":"現在行政調查已在進行全案行政院主院長也宣誓全案已經移送檢調調查換言之這個案子也在司法偵查當中國會的調查權有國會優惠的這種權利嗎立法院再大都不能夠跌床架屋把手伸到其他院紀機關的職權行使裡頭"},{"start":568.661,"end":595.811,"text":"但是這個案子很遺憾應當透過表決它還是會成立的民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管專案報告要在委員會的專案報告或是院會的專案報告我們都願意該進行我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立我們非常的在乎從制度面去解決現在這個時候未還委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長侯生翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告"},{"start":597.776,"end":626.135,"text":"在下一頁最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了要針對青鳥期間那那個時候身份不是立委那時候是政論節目的來賓王逸川他所提的一段言論然後又被在野黨無限延伸說是不是執政黨王逸川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人這該澄清都澄清過了"},{"start":627.276,"end":652.149,"text":"但是還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會我要就教於您的是越來越多的調查委員會每一個都是特種委員會以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多請問我們的人力物力你們怎麼來分派我們的所有的議事人員然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整"},{"start":654.836,"end":672.834,"text":"謝謝委員關心,我想國會的議事人員他的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序的一個順利的一個進行所以在這個委員如果有共識或是大家有意覺的一個情況底下我們絕對是全力來配合"},{"start":673.334,"end":689.612,"text":"我們現在編列的預算就是我剛說的有20億這是議事行政的支持占了我們總預算的5乘4但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下就是我們的常設委員會跟比如說紀律委員會這些其他的委員會都可以研判"},{"start":690.733,"end":691.994,"text":"提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案"},{"start":718.53,"end":736.248,"text":"所以我們所有議事委員要投入的案子有多少上千案喔另外所有的部會首長的財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些廣義來講立法院院長也是首長之一喔"},{"start":736.869,"end":754.143,"text":"是不是您在點頭也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的如果這樣包山包海你的預算有辦法支應嗎那請問你要從哪一個委員會來調你國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱所以你們每一個委員會都是都是臨時編組嗎"},{"start":765.427,"end":780.875,"text":"是不是還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會那個是參事室的兩位參事兩位參事我們參事室有幾位參事目前四位四位參事那現在已經有四個委員會會成立了你四位參事怎麼來輪他們會不會過牢而且每一個委員會的這個調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持因應的嗎"},{"start":792.193,"end":794.695,"text":"我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作要調查就要有精良的武器"},{"start":819.412,"end":837.247,"text":"所以我剛剛說該修法把立法院職權刑事法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循這個要先做到未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則民進黨版的國會改革方案立法院職權刑事法也有調查權"},{"start":838.408,"end":860.074,"text":"民進黨不反對國會調查權但是依憲法的精神國會的調查權有其界限不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域不得侵犯監察院的不得深入司法權但是現在非常遺憾立法院已經是一個什麼該成立想查什麼就查什麼請你們及早因應我會在審議預算的時候因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持"},{"start":865.973,"end":884.905,"text":"除非你服邊很多啦要不然你現在成立現在已經4個調查委員會我跟你打包票未來可能越來越多怎麼去調派人力調派人力不是只有人去支援就好還有專業相輔調查的案件光國發基金個案上千個議案你怎麼調查"},{"start":888.311,"end":913.464,"text":"你們的人力物力要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器你們的預算足夠嗎?我們的人力足夠嗎?我們的專業足夠嗎?我不希望因為這樣而造成我們議事人員的過勞造成大家或者是勞役不均這也是我要非常利用審議預算的時候我們馬上會面對了你們可不可以一個月內"},{"start":914.625,"end":914.645,"text":"謝謝吳委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時27分）謝謝，有請張副秘。"],["主席：麻煩張副秘。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家辛苦，也預祝秘書長真的要保重身體，最近感冒比較多，我自己也病了半個月。","針對今天的主題，我想先主要做幾個回應。第一個，立法院對於破壞議場議事任何的開會，不管是空間或是所有我們提供的軟體硬體部分，該查該辦就要公平。過去基於議事攻防，對於立法院的公務造成很多的破壞，這不是只有某一黨，不是只有民進黨，大家在激烈的議事攻防上各黨都有，所以要處理我非常同意，我們都希望大家能夠規規矩矩的，然後都能夠循議事規則好好來開會。但是也要呼籲所有的議案都要遵循民主的原則，如果有些排案的委員或者是做出非常多高度爭議性的政治性法案，當然會有比較高的議事攻防，但是大家要一視同仁，立法院處理各個黨都要一致。您同意吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：同意。"],["吳委員思瑤：第二個，我也要澄清一下，在自由民主的臺灣，不會有任何一個政黨要主張讓臺灣走回頭路，臺灣不可能走回戒嚴，沒有任何一個政黨去肯定戒嚴這件事。臺灣從1949到1987這38年的戒嚴時間，造成人民莫大的迫害、傷害，這些都是發生在這片土地上，讓國人非常傷痛、苦痛的歷史記憶，沒有人可以、也沒有人應該重蹈覆轍，民主進步黨更不可能。過去在這片土地上宣告戒嚴的政黨是中國國民黨，民進黨是站在反抗、推翻威權的一方，所以如果有立委繼續帶風向說民進黨在肯定戒嚴這件事，這才是不折不扣的造謠。","今天審議立法院的預算，立法院今年度編列下年度的預算，歲出是36億，當中最大宗是在議事行政的支持，占54.38% 即20億左右，對於委員問政的相關support也有15億543萬的編列，比例是四成，大概是這樣子。所以立法院的預算用在支持委員的優質問政，以及讓我們支持議事的系統能夠非常穩健的進行，這是我們花這筆預算最重要的地方。我現在要就教於副秘，現在立法院有個亂象，越來越多的調查委員會雨後春筍，我們的人力、物力怎麼來因應？首先我想問一下，在我們113憲判字第9號之後，針對國會調查權回應在立法院職權行使法第八章調查權之行使，多數的條文是被大法官宣告違憲的，所以立法院現在當務之急，針對多部分是違憲、少部分合憲的條文使用上會產生前後矛盾或競合的問題，立法院應當優先針對立法院職權行使法來好好修訂，讓立法院的調查權成為一個強大的武器，成為一整套非常精良的裝備，這應當是我們該做的事情吧？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為我們54.38%的預算用在支持議事行政，40%用在委員問政的優化協力，我們的法制局有關立法政策、法律案及預算案等等之研究要進行分析、評估、諮詢，供委員審查之參考，這個部分也是我們支應預算，我們該做的事，那我們的法制局有沒有要針對立法院職權行使法，修憲之後，所謂的讓國會改革真正的成為權責相符的改革方案？我們啟動了什麼樣的修法分析研議？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是不是請法制局說明？"],["吳委員思瑤：好，沒問題。"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，在憲判字第9號判決結果之後，我們整理了有關在113年6月24日立院三讀通過的國會內規改革，總共大概修正了41個條文，包含中華民國刑法那一條條文。在憲判字第9號之後……"],["吳委員思瑤：之後法制局做了哪些研究分析？怎麼樣來補正修法？"],["郭局長明政：我們內部有做相關的……針對憲判字第9號有關大法官的審查標的違憲或部分違憲，總共有18條。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，那我們做了哪些的研析？"],["郭局長明政：審查標的……"],["吳委員思瑤：你說的這些，我當然都瞭解。"],["郭局長明政：委員，因為這次憲判字第9號是很特別的，它針對每一個項，項下的每一個都細到條文的文字裡面……"],["吳委員思瑤：所以我願意給時間，你們要好好來做研析、分析，以提出修法的建議。"],["郭局長明政：我們的修法建議也只能提供那個修法建議，事後我們再把……"],["吳委員思瑤：有在進行吧？"],["郭局長明政：有、有。"],["吳委員思瑤：大概多久時間可以更……因為您說這一次的憲判解釋確實很特別，因為整套的違憲實在太多啊，項次是散落在各個條文。"],["郭局長明政：是、是。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以當然我願意給時間，我只是責成你們應當進行。"],["郭局長明政：剛才鍾佳濱委員已經有要求我們一個月之內，我們會提供給司法及法制委員會跟委員辦公室……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我們也希望趕快提供給立法院的各黨團，我們來針對未來讓國會真改革的法案能夠修得更好，為了讓我們以後的調查權的行使有明確的法治依據。"],["郭局長明政：是、是，我們一定本於權責，幫委員提供這樣的問政……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，更積極來做，沒有任何的預設立場，法律本來就沒有顏色。"],["郭局長明政：沒有問題，這個沒有問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為在修憲之後的職權行使法有關調查權的行使的法規都沒有健全，所以現在使用的這個工具會卡卡的，你不曉得要適用這個條文，前面合憲、後面違憲，現在立法院又面對了如雨後春筍的調查委員會的成立，譬如那天已經正式召開會議的國發基金不當投資調查委員會，也已經選舉出黃國昌召委，當然民進黨認為當天的選舉是無效的，組成是不公的，調查的範圍是不明確的，而且明確的侵犯了其他憲法機關的權力，把手伸到司法調查權的案件，也把手伸到監察院調查權的案子，這個是我們對於國發基金不當投資調查委員會的立場。","未來還有現在在協商的部會首長財產申報調查委員會，同樣還是一樣的問題，立法院立法權又把手伸到監察權裡頭了，因為財產申報的主管機關是監察院，部會首長的範圍到底到哪裡？如果廣義的是部會首長，狹義的才是行政院的部會首長，如果廣義的所有行政機關的首長，其實也包括我們的各院院長，所以範圍不明確，然後又侵犯了權力分立的原則，但是可能這個案子在野黨委員透過表決還是會成立的，我要說這是違憲的調查委員會。","還有一個就是勞動部的霸凌調查委員會，我們都非常支持霸凌案嚴查、徹查，現在行政調查已在進行，行政院卓院長也宣示全案已經移送檢調調查，換言之，這個案子也在司法偵查當中，國會的調查權有國會優位的權力嗎？立法院再大都不能夠疊床架屋，把手伸到其他院際機關的職權行使裡頭。但是很遺憾，這個案子應當透過表決還是會成立的，民進黨非常支持所有霸凌的不管是要在委員會的專案報告，或是院會的專案報告，我們都願意、該進行，我們對於霸凌的整個機制的建立非常在乎，從制度面去解決，現在這個時候衛環委員會正在進行勞動部新任部長洪申翰對於這整個霸凌案的報告。","最新的是昨天程序委員會在野黨又提案了，要針對青鳥期間那個時候身分不是立委而是政論節目來賓王義川所提的一段言論，然後又被在野黨無限延伸說，是不是執政黨王義川有辦法把手伸到通訊自由去非法監控國人？這該澄清都澄清過了，但還是有在野黨委員要成立調查委員會。我要就教於您的是，越來越多的調查委員會，每一個都是特種委員會，以後可能比我們8個常設委員會還多，請問就原有的人力、物力，你們怎麼來分派所有的議事人員？然後支出面要怎麼來因應調整？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員的關心。國會議事人員的目的就是支援我們國會的議事程序能夠順利進行，所以在委員如果有共識或是大家要議決的情況底下，我們絕對是全力來配合。"],["吳委員思瑤：我們現在編列的預算就是我剛剛說的有20億，這是議事行政的支持，占了我們總預算的五成四，但是這是在一個常態的狀況之下，就是我們的常設委員會跟譬如紀律委員會這些其他的委員會，都可以研判routine的立法院該有的大概都在這個預算裡頭，除非你高編很多、浮編很多，才足以去因應未來可能有10個、20個或5個、10個，我不知道數量多少的各式各樣的調查委員會。又如同我剛剛說的國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會，因為範圍太廣，國發基金的投資案超過千案，提案的委員並沒有辦法說明他要查哪一案，所以我們所有議事人員要投入的案子有多少？上千案嗎？另外，所有的部會首長財產申報調查委員會如果不幸也成立了，所有的部會首長到底擴及哪些？廣義來講，立法院院長也是首長之一，是不是？您在點頭。也可能韓國瑜院長的財產申報也是在野黨委員說要成立調查的標的，如果這樣包山包海，你的預算有辦法支應嗎？請問你要從哪一個委員會來調？國發基金的議事人員是誰來擔綱？哪一個委員會的議事人員來擔綱？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：那個是另外再找。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以你們每一個委員會都是臨時編組嗎？是不是？還是國發基金可能是經濟委員會？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：那個是參事室的2位參事來當主任秘書跟……"],["吳委員思瑤：2位參事，我們參事是有幾位參事？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前4位。"],["吳委員思瑤：4位參事，那現在已經有4個委員會會成立了，你4位參事怎麼來輪？他們會不會過勞？而且每一個委員會的調查標的是這幾位參事的專業上能夠支持、因應的嗎？"],["郭局長明政：跟委員報告，有關調查委員會，它不是每天都開會啦！"],["吳委員思瑤：但是它調查的案子很多，我們各個委員會一個禮拜開一、三、四。"],["郭局長明政：因為有關的議事人員是由秘書長來做指派，所以人力調配的問題，這個可能……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我把這個問題點出來，我希望所有的調查委員會都是合憲合規的運作，要調查就要有精良的武器，所以我剛剛說該修法，立法院職權行使法有關於調查權該如何給我們一個最清楚的依循，這個要先做到，未來成立的任何調查委員會依循一套清清楚楚的遊戲規則。在民進黨版的國會改革方案，立法院職權行使法也有調查權，民進黨不反對國會調查權，但是依憲法的精神，國會的調查權有其界限，不能侵犯其他憲法機關的核心領域，不得侵犯監察院，不得伸入司法權，但是現在非常遺憾，立法院已經是一個什麼該成立，想查什麼就查什麼。","請你們及早因應，我會在審議預算的時候，因為你們現在編的54%用在議事的支持，除非你浮編很多啦！要不然你現在已經4個調查委員會要成立，我跟你打包票，未來可能越來越多，怎麼去調派人力？調派人力不是只有人去支援就好，還要專業相符，調查的案件光國發基金一個案，就有上千個議案，你怎麼調查？你們的人力、物力，要專業的行使調查權就要有精良的武器，你們的預算足夠嗎？你們的人力足夠嗎？你們的專業足夠嗎？我不希望因為這樣而造成議事人員的過勞，或者是造成大家勞逸不均，這也是我要利用審議預算的時候，我們馬上會面對了，你們可不可以一個月內，其實也不用一個月內，可能半個月內，因為審預算就要了，針對這麼多如雨後春筍的調查委員會，你們的預算如何支應、人力如何調派、專業如何支持，提一個報告給司法及法制委員會，好嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：好，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝，辛苦了！"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","法制局長還有副秘麻煩留步一下，因為剛剛洪孟楷委員有提到這個部分，現在大家都已經質詢完畢了，所以我還是仔細說明一下，我國刑法第三百零六條對於無故侵入他人住宅以及建築物本來就有法律的規範，那對於公家機關夜間管制的區域，民眾是不得侵入的，這個民眾當然也包括立法委員他在非上班時間，在立法院管制的區域內，他也是不得無故侵入，這個在法律上面應該是沒有問題。之前有委員他們用打破窗戶或者是偷開門進入……"],["吳委員思瑤：有哦！黃國昌有，國民黨陳超明有，要公平對待！"],["主席：沒關係，不管任何政黨，那這個部分……"],["吳委員思瑤：各黨都有，公平對待！"],["主席：在管制的期間內，他如果用打破窗戶跟偷開門進入管制區域，這個在法律上面叫做犯罪，只是說第三百零六條是屬於告訴乃論之罪。","我再補充一下，我國刑事訴訟法第兩百四十一條，對於非屬偵查機關的公務員，也就是你們，你們是非屬偵查機關的公務員，他如果在執行職務的時候發現犯罪，他應該予以告發，雖然告發跟告訴乃論之罪還是有一定的差距，但是可以看得出來，我國的法制對於公務員在執行職務的時候，發現有犯罪的話，你本來就會有一個告發的義務，所以雖然侵入住宅是屬於告訴乃論，但我也要請你們能夠去瞭解一下這個狀況，目前我國其實有非常多的判決就是針對民眾在非上班時間進入公家機關，他侵入管制區域。","以立法院這邊為例好了，立法委員在夜間要進出立法院，這個是沒有問題的，駐衛警也會讓他進來。以本棟樓為例，你如果今天是進入到樓梯間，也是沒有問題，因為樓梯間並沒有管制，可是包括院會的議場以及各委員會的開會場所，晚上是會鎖門的，所以如果立法委員在管制期間，也就是非開門進行委員會的期間他想要進入到會場裡面，他必須透過議事人員、立法院人員的同意，而且開門讓他進來才可以，他不能夠用打破窗戶或偷開門的小偷模式來進入這邊，這樣進來的話他就是違反刑法第三百零六條啊！明顯你立法委員就是在帶頭違法犯罪。","我想剛剛就法制部分我分析得很清楚，如果我的法律見解有錯誤的話，法制局長也可以反駁我的說法，法制局長，你的想法呢？"],["郭局長明政：剛剛召委講得完全正確，沒有問題，可是當侵入住宅的這個法益被侵犯之後，那個提出告訴的人在這個機關就是我們院長，到時候應該是看院長是不是同意當告訴人。"],["主席：是，這個沒有問題，我覺得非常多判決都是如此，因為告訴乃論之罪還是要有告訴權人才能夠提告，所以我剛剛有說過，刑事訴訟法第兩百四十一條的告發，公務員的職權告發，它是在告發案件，並不是在告訴乃論案件，所以確實由院長來決定，但是是不是能夠麻煩你們公告周知給所有的立委？在夜間你用這種非法的方式入侵，其實是會構成犯罪，而且也有被院長提告的風險，我想過去的委員都完全漠視法律的規定，動不動打破窗戶進到院會或進到委員會，那這個也會造成危險，他打破窗戶，之前我記得有人就是被割到韌帶嘛！前兩屆的事情，那我希望我們是不是有機會能夠把這種基本的法律概念告訴這些立法委員，請他們瞭解基本的法律概念？如果立法員帶頭做違法的事情，我想全國人民應該會覺得這很荒謬吧！","我的意思不是說去追究任何人，而且過去的事情我也不會想要回過頭去追究任何一個人或任何一個政黨，我比較希望我們把這個道理至少能夠讓各位委員知道，讓大家不要說晚上還要躲在茶水間或幹什麼，其實在我以前的觀念裡面，這個都是宵小在做的事情，為什麼會是一個國會立委在做的事？當然啦！他們可能不懂這個是犯罪，所以是不是麻煩你們能夠告訴所有的立委，這個可能會構成犯罪？因為萬一有一天如果韓院長真的覺得他必須整頓風氣，他提告了，那這個告訴乃論之罪在發生後6個月內都可以告啊！所以什麼時候會被告我們不清楚，所以不如我們先把它變成一個通案的概念，告訴所有的立委這樣做是不對的，我想這個也會減少立法院在場所管理上面的負擔，這個再麻煩副秘能夠處理。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝主席的指教，我們會後請法制局就這個案例的狀況來做完整的分析研究以後，做成一個報告，然後我們再來看後續怎麼樣……"],["主席：其實我希望這麼做，一切依法，也是不希望立法院的議事人員去承擔這個責任，否則他晚上要衝進來，你攔也不是，不攔也不是，那不如就依法來做，因為我們是法治國家嘛！我每次都希望大家能夠依法處理，但是好像大家都不把我國法治以及議事規則當一回事啊！這是我在這邊主持7、8個月的感覺。好，非常謝謝副秘，非常謝謝法制局局長。","今天所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。委員謝龍介所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157788","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157788","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360d538a4029c7cc9994a6acd55cc740f5094948cb68dbf16ab861507bed890295c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"11:27:56 - 11:38:02","影片長度":"00:10:06","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:27:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:38:02+08:00","duration":606,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.097843750000001,"end":5.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.71784375,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.14784375,"end":11.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.691593750000003,"end":13.328468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.952843750000003,"end":21.934718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.39034375,"end":29.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.612843750000003,"end":43.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.31096875,"end":53.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.49096875,"end":56.376593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.376593750000005,"end":56.393468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.15284375,"end":59.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.07659375,"end":59.110343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.36346875,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.12846875000001,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":79.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.28846875,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.03096875,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.66846875000002,"end":133.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.45409375,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.88284375,"end":165.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.39284375,"end":178.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.93284375000002,"end":169.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.26034375,"end":182.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.60159375,"end":187.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.56284375,"end":191.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.47784375,"end":191.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.81534375,"end":199.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":201.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.60284375,"end":212.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.36471875,"end":215.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.31784375,"end":241.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.58659375000002,"end":225.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.24409375000002,"end":229.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.54346875000002,"end":230.83034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.27721875,"end":233.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.49659375000002,"end":233.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.04909375000003,"end":236.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.60159375,"end":237.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.79909375000003,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.46909375,"end":257.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.65721875,"end":283.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.58534375,"end":259.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.29034375000003,"end":288.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.94784375,"end":290.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.82096875,"end":291.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.28909375,"end":306.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.13909375000003,"end":308.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.77596875,"end":311.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.38721875000005,"end":317.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.15846875,"end":320.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.80784375,"end":323.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.14909375,"end":333.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.88596875,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.92784375,"end":344.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":344.85471875,"end":347.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.45346875,"end":356.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.37596875,"end":358.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.86096875000004,"end":361.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.76346875,"end":364.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.02034375000005,"end":366.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.99471875,"end":367.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.24784375,"end":367.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.00721875000005,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.96784375000004,"end":445.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.28846875000005,"end":434.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.02471875000003,"end":452.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.73659375000005,"end":461.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.13596875,"end":480.96846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.96846875000006,"end":482.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.16221875,"end":489.18659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.18659375000004,"end":489.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.23721875,"end":489.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.30471875,"end":494.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.40096875,"end":494.92409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.46409375,"end":499.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.03721875,"end":500.05409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.10471875,"end":519.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.88659375,"end":534.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.64784375,"end":558.3403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.72846875,"end":563.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.7234687499999,"end":566.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.74409375,"end":570.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.37221875,"end":572.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.62909375,"end":587.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.53409375,"end":595.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.16596875,"end":594.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.54971875,"end":595.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.68471875,"end":596.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.8022187500001,"end":601.70909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.267,"end":28.849,"text":"黃委員好 主委好 剛剛聽了很多 我想很多衝突都來自於對彼此的不了解那我想事實的 總是事情在不斷的溝通的過程裡面會讓我們更加進來一步所以台灣愛有主心 我相信台灣有很多是大陸學生也很羨慕的制度好 那主委我想先跟你請教 像"},{"start":29.75,"end":56.203,"text":"所以我們昨晚經歷了首爾驚心動魄6小時我想不只韓國民眾連台灣的民眾都很關注因為區域的情勢是牽一把棟全身那剛好在這個時候我們的總統跟外交部長都不在國內我想請教主委你有沒有及時掌握相關區域的情勢動態跟總統做回報然後以及我們總統有沒有做任何的指示"},{"start":58.14,"end":77.013,"text":"跟委員報告我們事情發生我想所有國安團隊都非常密注相關情勢的發展也做好各種應變的準備我覺得我們的國安團隊對各種的危機狀況都有很好的處理"},{"start":78.234,"end":100.718,"text":"本席這邊要再提醒因為區域情勢動盪的時候我們政府一定要及時的掌握正確的情勢而且要適時的跟人民報告穩定民心的安定接下來本席就要就陸委會海基會的業務報告還有審查預算來請教主委請教主委目前在我們賴清德總統的執政底下"},{"start":101.218,"end":127.291,"text":"我們政府的陸委會跟海基會最主要的核心業務還有分工是什麼?請主委簡單的回答。是,我們陸委會就是就兩岸政策上的研議的實施,我們層上起下協調各部會,層上當然我們有行政院還有國安會,乃至於對總統負責,那協調各部會,因為陸委會的人少,我們相關的主管機關,"},{"start":128.171,"end":129.992,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":154.782,"end":182.057,"text":"簡單地說我們陸委會就是針對大陸政策的規劃跟執行嘛那海基會是主要是以半官方就是類似我們民間團體的這個性質來進行兩岸的交流嘛對不對是這樣子沒錯吧那不過其實目前我們從陸委會跟海基會都在發言的性質來看好像幾乎都一致齁就是不斷輪流的開記者會跟發新聞稿那我幾乎看不到有什麼實質的交流的座位啦齁"},{"start":182.777,"end":183.88,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":191.872,"end":201.72,"text":"我想在114年的預算裡面我們可以看到我們陸委會捐助海基會辦理兩岸仲介事務經費是2億5957萬那我們相較於113年度是1億8435萬增加了7521萬增加幅度高達4成"},{"start":213.427,"end":226.671,"text":"那根據海基會的說明吼,咱主要是要把你這個補助是,第一個是補助要改善我們的財政,財務的結構。對,政府補助案增加,從57%到70%,所以實際上海基會的預算是增加4000多萬,不是7000多萬。"},{"start":231.232,"end":257.609,"text":"另外還有包括我們人事費嘛還有擴大辦理、台商、子女、夏令營然後增加大陸政經社會情勢掌握那不解釋他一解釋我就覺得怪怪的我們不用預算這麼多的納稅錢這錢不是拿來做交流是在做這些事情海基會的任務三大任務協商、交流、服務交流是其中一項那個我跟主委跟民主黨"},{"start":258.69,"end":283.426,"text":"提醒我們海基會的全名叫做財團法人海峽交流基金會交流的工作絕對是海基會的重中之重但是我們從目前海基會看到的一些作為跟陸委會好像都差不多本席這邊要提出兩點我想要請陸委會跟海基會要負起責任因為作為大陸政策還有兩岸交流的單位"},{"start":284.326,"end":305.581,"text":"你必須要衝盡一切的努力確保人民跟產業的權益第一點就是我們的觀光的部分我想疫情解封快兩年了我們兩岸的觀光其實一直很難回溫旅館公會跟全民會上個禮拜也才到我們交通部觀光署來提交陳情書理事長來說我們觀光我們全台灣超過4000家以上的"},{"start":312.726,"end":322.55,"text":"關關旅遊業者、遊覽車業者、超過36,000名的導遊。因為兩岸觀光的停滯,波及到的觀光產業人口可謂超過200萬。"},{"start":324.195,"end":325.896,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":344.904,"end":346.465,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":370.06,"end":372.603,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":391.263,"end":403.26,"text":"雖然我們現在兩岸的交流我們去大陸剛剛委員提到我們已經去了230萬那他才來32萬那個比重是我們去多他來多少我們去7.2他才來1所以已經蠻這個"},{"start":407.485,"end":409.486,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":435.419,"end":436.78,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":464.802,"end":467.003,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":483.269,"end":486.53,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":513.138,"end":515.619,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":534.79,"end":562.846,"text":"作物的成長不會因為兩岸交流停滯而停滯它會繼續的成長那農民的生活也要必須前進這點我真的要拜託注意我想最後本席還是要深入提醒我們陸委會跟海基會我們兩個單位最主要的工作就是要促進兩岸的交流不管是在產業、經濟任何相關的方面那我們也明白在現在賴清德總統執政的情況下很多事情"},{"start":563.766,"end":567.627,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":587.734,"end":593.744,"text":"跟委員報告,總統也宣示對等尊嚴、健康有序的交流對話,承諾不變,我們會努力。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2553,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（11時27分）謝謝主席！我們有請邱主委。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：黃委員好！"],["黃委員建賓：主委好！主委，我剛剛聽了很多，我想，很多衝突都是來自於對彼此的不瞭解，事情在不斷溝通的過程中會讓我們更加進那一步，所以我們臺灣要有自信，我相信臺灣也有很多讓大陸學生非常羨慕的制度。","好，主委，我想先跟你請教，昨晚經歷了首爾驚心動魄6小時，我想不只是韓國民眾，連臺灣的民眾都很關注，因為區域情勢牽一髮動全身，剛好這個時候，我們的總統和外交部長都不在國內。我想請教主委，你有沒有即時掌握相關區域的情勢動態跟總統回報？以及總統有沒有做任何的指示？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，事情發生後，我想所有的國安團隊都非常密注相關情勢的發展，也做好各種應變的準備，我覺得我們的國安團隊對於各種危機狀況都有很好的處理。"],["黃委員建賓：好。本席這邊要善意提醒，因為當區域情勢動盪時，我們政府一定要即時掌握正確的情資，而且要適時的跟人民報告，穩定民心。","接下來，本席要就陸委會和海基會的業務報告和預算審查來請教主委。請教主委，目前在賴清德總統執政下，陸委會跟海基會最主要的核心業務和分工是什麼？請主委簡單的回答。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們陸委會的工作是兩岸政策的研議和實施，我們會承上啟下協調各部會，「承上」我們有行政院和國安會，乃至於對總統負責，還有協調各部會，因為陸委會的人少，所以相關主管機關都是一起來推動兩岸政策。我們還有委託海基會，海基會做為政府公權力唯一授權的機構，它會協助我們委託的事項，服務兩岸的民眾，接受兩岸交流的委託等等。如果兩岸情勢可行的話，政府還會委託海基會赴中國大陸，或是跟中國大陸人士協商。"],["黃委員建賓：簡單的說，陸委會就是針對大陸政策做規劃和執行。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["黃委員建賓：海基會主要是以半官方，就是類似民間團體的性質來進行兩岸的交流，對不對？是這樣子沒錯嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是的。"],["黃委員建賓：不過目前我們從陸委會和海基會對外發言的性質來看，好像幾乎都是一致的，就是不斷輪流的召開記者會和發新聞稿，我幾乎看不到有任何實質的交流作為。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想實質的交流作為很多，剛剛……"],["黃委員建賓：秘書長，沒關係，我先簡單的講一下。從114年的預算裡面我們可以看到，陸委會捐助海基會辦理兩岸中介事務經費是2億5,957萬元，相較113年度的1億8,435萬元，增加了7,521萬元，增加幅度高達四成。根據海基會的說明，第一個是要改善財務結構。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：對，政府補助案增加，從57%調到70%，所以實際上，海基會的預算是增加四千多萬元，不是七千多萬元。"],["黃委員建賓：另外還包括人事費、擴大辦理臺商子女冬夏令營，增加大陸政經社會情勢掌握。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：對，是的。"],["黃委員建賓：這一解釋我就覺得怪怪的，這麼多的納稅錢不是拿來做交流，而是拿來做這些事情。"],["羅副董事長文嘉：海基會有三大任務：協商、交流和服務，交流是其中一項。"],["黃委員建賓：我提醒一下主委和秘書長，海基會的全名是「財團法人海峽交流基金會」，交流的工作絕對是海基會的重中之重。但是目前海基會的作為和陸委會都差不多，本席這邊要提出2點，我要請陸委會和海基會負起責任，因為你們做為大陸政策和兩岸交流的單位，必須要窮盡一切的努力，確保人民跟產業的權益，第一點就是觀光的部分，疫情解封快2年了，兩岸的觀光一直很難回溫，旅行公會全聯會上個禮拜才到交通部觀光署遞交陳情書，對不對？理事長還說全臺灣有超過4,000家以上的觀光旅遊業者、遊覽車業者，然後有超過3萬6,000名的導遊，但是因為兩岸觀光停滯，波及的產業人口可能超過200萬人，這後面有許多觀光業者都面臨倒閉或轉行，所以他們希望政府能夠聽到業者的心聲，這是上個禮拜發生的事情。","第二個就是農產品，今年9月中國大陸宣布停止對臺34項農產品免徵進口關稅的政策，我想這個恐怕會衝擊到臺灣很多的農業，就以我們臺東來講，臺東的鳳梨釋迦和柚子就會直接受到衝擊，這個會影響到農民的收入，但是到現在我們還沒有看到政府有任何明確的作為。除了發新聞稿之外，我想請教主委，這2個部分主委到底做了什麼樣的溝通和努力？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝委員提到這2個，第一個是觀光客，有關觀光客，其實去年我們就已經開放陸客來臺觀光，只要旅行社提出申請，經過我們審查後就可以落實，但是截至目前為止，中國大陸還是沒有開放觀光客到臺灣來。雖然現在兩岸的交流，剛剛委員也有提到，我們已經去了230萬人次，但是他們才來32萬人次，那個比重是我們去多，他們來少，我們去7.2人，他們才來1人，這個非常的不對稱。另外，我也要跟委員報告，就算剛剛所說的團客，現在只要你組團，就可以赴陸。截至11月底，我們的團客已經去了16萬9,000人，但是中國大陸連一個團客的名義到臺灣都沒有。"],["黃委員建賓：主委，這也是業者要跟你陳情的事情，對吧！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們希望中國大陸趕快放人過來。"],["黃委員建賓：其實這些數字業者都知道，對不對？業者就是跟你陳情這種情況你們要怎麼處理。確實，我們不能把這些問題都丟回去，說我們都做了，但是大陸沒有。我們還是要努力，主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還是有努力，我們也希望他們趕快放觀光客過來。包括像今年以來的夏季旅展、秋季旅展和各種踩線團，我們都有不斷的協助業者趕快把觀光品質、觀光安全做起來，讓中國大陸的老百姓想來，但是現在完全是卡在中國大陸官方，因為他們不願意、真正的把陸客放過來臺灣，這是本質的問題，因為它疊加了很多、不斷的增加附加條件，這個都不是政策的……"],["黃委員建賓：主委，聽起來都是大陸單方面不願意，但是我想，我們還是要適時的來做努力。針對農產品的部分……"],["邱主任委員垂正：農產品的部分，中國大陸先禁止，然後再放開，這樣的作為對我們的農業當然是一種傷害，所以我們的農業部門已經積極的在協調，希望農民要有風險的觀念之外，也會協助農民拓展多元的外銷市場，希望能夠幫助農民有穩定的、永續的生意可以做。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委您的回答。主委，不管是交通方面或是農業產業部分的說明，本席都瞭解，但是迫在眉睫的事情已經發生了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是的，瞭解。"],["黃委員建賓：這些事情不能說我們還在等、還在研議，因為農作物的生長不會因為兩岸停止交流而停滯，它會繼續生長，農民的生活也必須要前進，這點我真的要拜託主委。","最後，本席還是要善意的提醒陸委會和海基會，你們2個單位最主要的工作就是要促進兩岸交流，不管是在產業、經濟，或是任何相關的方面。我們也明白，在現在賴清德總統執政下，很多事情你們有不能說和不能做的壓力，不過農業、觀光跟老百姓和產業息息相關，我們一定要努力，那怕是前進一點點，我們都要努力，因為這個攸關他們的生計，所以我在這裡要拜託主委，不管是觀光業者或是農民，請幫忙他們。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，總統也宣示：對等、尊嚴、健康、有序的交流、對話，承諾不變。我們會努力，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝主委！謝謝秘書長！謝謝！"],["主席：接下請賴士葆委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157787","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157787","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360793eb0803b56537bb1ffdbb9442e4f6e94948cb68dbf16ab1b3ed4d2a5df194e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"11:26:01 - 11:35:51","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:26:01+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:35:51+08:00","duration":590,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.8072187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.48971875,"end":9.227843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.98721875,"end":10.662218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.087843750000001,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.640343750000003,"end":28.566593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.933468750000003,"end":48.479093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.03596875,"end":54.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.55034375,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.94221875,"end":68.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.15096875,"end":70.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.51784375,"end":78.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.67284375,"end":110.59596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.31721875000001,"end":113.34659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.19034375000001,"end":115.92846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.54846875000001,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.26471875000001,"end":128.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.66909375,"end":129.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.52971875,"end":134.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.18284375000002,"end":147.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.48909375,"end":179.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.16596875000002,"end":162.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.05346875,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.43284375000002,"end":183.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.74909375000001,"end":190.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.60471875000002,"end":195.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.15284375000002,"end":193.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.40159375000002,"end":203.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.82659375,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.37471875,"end":214.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.90034375000002,"end":217.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":217.46534375000002,"end":234.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.36971875,"end":245.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.61284375000002,"end":251.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.35034375,"end":256.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.82659375000003,"end":300.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.41846875000005,"end":314.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.71596875,"end":316.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.51721875000004,"end":329.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.53221875,"end":333.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.38784375,"end":349.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.15784375000004,"end":375.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.13659375000003,"end":351.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.22534375000004,"end":377.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.65971875,"end":379.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.68471875,"end":384.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.11846875000003,"end":400.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.80409375000005,"end":426.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.49471875,"end":410.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.49784375,"end":416.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.40721875,"end":434.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.45784375000005,"end":427.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":430.25909375000003,"end":430.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.24159375000005,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.28159375,"end":450.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.82971875000004,"end":451.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.97721875,"end":461.20784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.25471875000005,"end":458.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.39784375000005,"end":461.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.20784375000005,"end":462.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.42284375,"end":465.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.43971875000005,"end":464.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.20284375000006,"end":476.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":476.58096875,"end":477.27284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.05346875000004,"end":479.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.77034375000005,"end":490.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.11034375,"end":525.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.4172187500001,"end":525.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.4340937500001,"end":532.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":525.4509687500001,"end":526.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.4834687499999,"end":534.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.07409375,"end":537.1453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.8415937500001,"end":540.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.7397187500001,"end":542.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.4440937500001,"end":544.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":545.17784375,"end":578.2022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.4722187500001,"end":584.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.42471875,"end":586.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.1840937500001,"end":587.23034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.911,"end":28.275,"text":"議員質詢謝謝主席 有請院長蕭院長請張委員早好 院長好 我想請問一下我們在114年的院慶總共有25項展覽活動那我想做一個展認對他的中心思想所以可不可以請院長簡單的告訴我你們這次的策展的中心思想是什麼"},{"start":30.464,"end":48.084,"text":"展覽的話當然最主要就是說如果現場的展覽的話是呈現故宮博物院現場的精華那現場的精華的話基本上它其實有一些條件的限制很多人就說為什麼你不一次把故宮所有的精品通通出來因為有一些現場的文物有一些策展的概念"},{"start":49.181,"end":49.201,"text":"獲得獎項獎項"},{"start":69.192,"end":70.093,"text":"我們希望可以成為全民的故宮、世界的故宮"},{"start":87.364,"end":110.508,"text":"我想了解因為這個要展示我們的武力展示的話那有一個非常重要的重點那就是我們到底要如何讓所有人回到你剛講的全民的故宮、世界的故宮所以我今天的論述今天的質詢就會在這個論點上面來跟院長做一些討論那最主要就是說我們的全民故宮我今天要達到這個目的我們的方法跟策略是什麼雙平展示就能夠達到全民的故宮嗎"},{"start":118.315,"end":134.648,"text":"當然這是一步一步努力的目標,不可能憑任何一個單項的業務。對,所以我說您的策略是什麼?因為我們喊到這樣子的目標,那從這個院長的展示是一個,那我們重要的策略是什麼呢?"},{"start":135.228,"end":136.991,"text":"預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":150.23,"end":155.072,"text":"二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案二、處理或審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案"},{"start":180.383,"end":184.764,"text":"三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":203.43,"end":232.555,"text":"我想問一個問題喔就是說因為我自己在英國我寫的論文就是寫觀光行銷台灣的觀光行銷怎麼做那當然其實博物館行銷也是一個非常重要的重點那它其實是一種叫做integrable marketing這件事情呢它就是無形的東西我們要如何做行銷我想這個國外有我想台灣也有非常多的專業跟學者我覺得是不是應該要啟動一個調查研究啊研究到底為什麼我們的人數一直無法回升是廣告沒下隊呢還是TA沒抓精準呢你的策"},{"start":233.055,"end":235.738,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮"},{"start":245.68,"end":275.42,"text":"OK,好,那我們試著來啟動一個所謂的調查看看能不能幫故宮針灸就是為什麼觀眾不能回流的原因對,因為我想重點還是要找出問題嘛對症下藥,下藥他才有可能幫助我們達到我們當年的水準啦那再來就是在下一個點喔我也想要針對就是百年故宮展裡面其實呢只有一個展是針對於孩子的就是2025的夏日親子藝術月而已"},{"start":276.04,"end":299.245,"text":"那我想回到一個更重要的重點就是說我一直在質詢我們北院的親子的兒少人數進場次是少的那代表是說如果我們沒有在現在去recruit這個年紀的人去招募這個年紀的人進來故宮的話未來他到底會不會進故宮是一個大問號所以我們是不是應該要來著重這個部分來去努力可是呢我也發現喔"},{"start":301.465,"end":315.166,"text":"在我們的人次上面我們在這個現在百萬學子由故宮故宮由一時的經費和人數我們都是大幅下降的喔都是大幅下降可是我發現一個很奇怪的點我也想請教院長在我們112年我們總共"},{"start":317.569,"end":318.67,"text":"總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管主管"},{"start":336.268,"end":349.327,"text":"這個可能要更詳細的資料可以去了解可是因為這個東西跟入城的遠近跟偏鄉如果要到故宮的話當然相對的成本就會比較多所以這個部分我們要進度的了解一下"},{"start":351.65,"end":377.867,"text":"這就是為什麼說我們必須要更精準的去看我們現有的這些數字上去了解原因因為我看到你們直接在113年直接大幅砍了跟11年相比砍了51%對半砍了這個經費如果我們今天要招募讓世界的故宮全民的故宮的話我看這些所作所為好像都沒有達到我們想要達到的目的因為我們一直沒有針對親子兒少的族群來做相對的一些方案"},{"start":379.748,"end":398.539,"text":"跟委員報告我比較關心的就是整體的服務人數有沒有減少因為如果經費的減少是因為我們本預算的減少但是因為我們從外面募集的經費資源比較多那基本上來講如果可以讓他的人數上升然後我們本預算減少其實不是壞事"},{"start":398.979,"end":426.193,"text":"當然啦!如果你預算減少人數上升當然非常好表示你精準嘛!你非常精準嘛!可是你現在就是預算增加人效素減少嘛!那是不是有問題?這個是麻煩您做一些研究調查那是不是可以在一個月給我一個提供調查報告好不好?我們來了解啦!對症下藥啦!那再來就是說我也希望如果我們了解出來我們是不是可以針對我們的兒少的方案有更精進的規劃呢?因為兒少人次就是一直在下降嘛!"},{"start":427.469,"end":431.392,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":452.066,"end":458.829,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":479.821,"end":499.936,"text":"我們的願慶和新故宮目前是在114年的預算書中願慶多項的預算都編列在新故宮計畫之下那這個現在是有3325萬但是在111年公開的新故宮計畫裡面卻沒有任何關於願慶的說明那您的回覆是說"},{"start":500.797,"end":522.83,"text":"因為是根據行政院所屬各機關中長程個案計劃編審要點來編列的可是要點中其實也有說明要變更主要工作項目需要修正原計劃等於就是說你要在新故宮計劃裡面編列願慶經費的話你是需要做變更計劃的可是我在資料裡面只找得到111年的計劃書裡面沒有願慶計劃"},{"start":526.352,"end":553.045,"text":"跟我們報告新故宮計劃裡面並沒有宴慶的那個活動軟體展覽經會沒有嗎?對那個是我們跟那個主計總助理可是在你們114年的預算書你3325萬都編列在新故宮計劃那是這個是這個應該這樣講就是說原來的原來我這樣講就是說沒有百年宴慶的話故宮基本上來講它每一個展覽是每一個檔期都還是有展覽"},{"start":554.266,"end":556.748,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":578.527,"end":585.979,"text":"好沒關係因為這樣聽我其實不是很了解啦我們會後好不好約個時間來做針對這個部分做說明可以嗎?是可以"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1079,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時26分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：蕭院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：張委員早。"],["張委員雅琳：院長好。我想請問一下，114年的院慶總共有25項展覽活動，辦一個展都會有它的中心思想，因此，可不可以請院長簡單地告訴我，你們這次策展的中心思想是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：院藏的展覽當然是呈現故宮博物院院藏的精華，基本上，院藏的精華其實是有一些條件的限制，很多人說為什麼不一次把故宮所有的精品都展覽出來，因為有一些限展的文物、有一些策展的概念，沒辦法如大家所想的，每個人想要看的東西通通這一次就能看得到。"],["張委員雅琳：聽起來好像是一種百年的慶典，最主要就是武力展示，展示我們故宮博物院有非常驚人、非常精彩的收藏，是嗎？聽起來是這樣子，我可以這樣說明嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，當然我們可以透過一個方式展現故宮典藏的特殊性。"],["張委員雅琳：好，了解，我懂了。我在之前的新聞也有看到，我們希望可以成為全民的故宮、世界的故宮，如果要武力展示的話，有一個非常重要的重點，我們到底要如何讓所有人回到你剛剛講的全民的故宮、世界的故宮？因此，今天我的質詢就會在這個論點上與院長做一些討論。今天我們要達到全民故宮這個目的，最主要的方法與策略是什麼？光憑展示就能夠達到全民的故宮嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然這是一步一步努力的目標，不可能憑任何一個單項的業務……"],["張委員雅琳：對，所以我想問你的策略是什麼？既然我們喊出這樣的目標，院藏的展示是一個，但最重要的策略是什麼呢？"],["蕭院長宗煌：全民的故宮，基本上來講，故宮把南北院區的展覽做好之外，當然我們與地方的展館之間，從故宮國寶……"],["張委員雅琳：抱歉！院長，這個聽起來比較像是方法，策略好像不是很清楚。沒關係！我們就回到剛剛郭昱晴委員質詢時你提到南北院明年的人數要達到350萬，是嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["張委員雅琳：350萬人次，南院會負責100萬，剩下的250萬應該是歸在北院，但是我看了一下數字，今年您說人數會達到180萬，等於是今年的180萬到明年的250萬還有38%的人次要努力，你有什麼具體的方法或策略嗎？不然，其實38%這個數字不低耶！"],["蕭院長宗煌：當然我們不能指望所謂的陸客來訪，但是因為南院有精彩的展覽，北院……"],["張委員雅琳：我想針對北院，因為南院的數字其實是增加不到10%。"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，北院的展覽也很精采，我們有很多特殊的展覽能夠達到展覽的亮點。"],["張委員雅琳：我想問一個問題，因為我自己在英國寫的論文就是觀光行銷、臺灣的觀光行銷怎麼做，當然博物館行銷其實也是一個非常重要的重點，它其實是一種intangible marketing，這件事情就是無形的東西，我們要如何做行銷？我想臺灣也有非常多的專業及學者，是不是應該要啟動一個調查研究，研究到底為什麼我們的人數一直無法回升？是廣告沒下對呢？還是TA沒抓精準呢？還是你策展的東西不夠吸引人？是不是可以啟動一個相關的研究調查，不然我們要怎麼做到全民的故宮、世界的故宮呢？因為現在聽起來像是瞎子摸象的感覺耶！"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK！好，我們試著來啟動一個所謂的調查，看看能不能幫故宮針灸出為什麼觀眾不能回流的原因或是不能提升的原因？"],["張委員雅琳：對，我想重點還是要找出問題對症下藥，這樣才有可能幫助我們達到當年的水準。","再下一個點，關於百年故宮展的部分，其實只有一個針對孩子的展，也就是2025夏日親子藝術月。我想回到一個更重要的重點，我一直在質詢北院的兒少親子人數進場次是少的，代表如果我們現在無法recruit這個年紀的人進來故宮，未來他到底會不會進故宮是一個大問號，因此，我們是不是應該要著重這個部分去努力？但是我也發現，像是百萬學子遊故宮、故宮遊藝思的經費及人數都是大幅下降、都是大幅下降，而且我也發現一個很奇怪的點，要請教院長。112年的經費是增加的，總經費從2,284到112年的2,581，增加了13%，但是校數卻減少了21%，為什麼？經費增加了，來參觀的校數還變少？原因是什麼？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個可能需要更詳細的資料去了解，因為這個東西與路程的遠近之間，像是偏鄉要到故宮所需的成本相對就會比較多，所以這個部分我們要進一步的了解……"],["張委員雅琳：這就是為什麼我們必須要更精準地從現有的這些數字去了解原因，因為我看到你們直接在113年大幅砍了51%，跟111年相比，可以說是對半砍了這個經費，如果今天我們要成為世界的故宮、全民的故宮，我看這些所作所為好像都沒有達到我們想要的目的，因為我們一直沒有針對親子兒少族群作相對的一些方案。"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，我比較關心的是整體服務人數有沒有減少，如果經費的減少是因為我們本預算的減少，但我們從外界募集的經費資源比較多，基本上來講，如果可以讓它的人數上升，本預算又能減少，其實也不是壞事，所以我再來了解。"],["張委員雅琳：如果你預算減少、人數上升，當然非常好，表示你精準嘛！你非常精準嘛！但現在就是預算增加、校數減少，這樣是不是有問題？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，我來了解一下。"],["張委員雅琳：這個再麻煩你做一些研究調查，是不是可以在一個月內提供我一份調查報告，好不好？讓我們來了解，對症下藥。"],["蕭院長宗煌：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：再者，如果我們研究出來之後，是不是可以針對兒少方案有更精進的規劃呢？因為兒少人次就是一直下降，這就回應到你自己的目標，全民的故宮嘛！問題是兒少人數一直在下降，所謂全民的故宮就是沒有達到嘛！"],["蕭院長宗煌：兒藝中心因為空間改變的關係，基本上，明年應該可以比較順暢的運作，所以我們希望兒藝中心可以提供兒少一個更好的活動空間……"],["張委員雅琳：兒少人數的差異不是幾萬人而已，不是1、2萬人這種數字，所以你們真的可以回去再看，兒藝中心真的可以補得上嗎？好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我請同仁分析之後，再給委員一份書面的報告。"],["張委員雅琳：我想我們要針對這一段好好的分析，同時我也想要了解夏日親子藝術月，現在應該有一些規劃了，是不是可以給我一份詳細的規劃內容，讓我了解這個活動到底是怎麼設計的，好不好？"],["蕭院長宗煌：OK！好。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一個問題，關於我們的院慶與新故宮，在114年的預算書中，院慶的多項預算都編列在新故宮計畫之下，現在是有3,325萬元，但是在111年公開的新故宮計畫中卻沒有任何關於院慶的說明，你的回復說是根據行政院所屬各機關中長程個案計畫編審要點編列，然而要點中其實也有說明，要變更主要工作項目，需要修正原計畫，等於是你要在新故宮計畫中編列院慶經費的話，你是需要變更計畫的喔！但是我在資料裡只找得到111年的計畫書，裡面並沒有院慶計畫，所以……"],["蕭院長宗煌：報告委員，新故宮計畫並沒有院慶活動軟體的展覽經費。"],["張委員雅琳：沒有嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，那是我們與主計總處那邊……"],["張委員雅琳：但是在你們114年的預算有3,325萬都編列在新故宮計畫。"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個應該是要這樣講，沒有百年院慶的話，基本上，故宮的每一個檔期都還是有展覽，只是後來這些展覽被歸納到院慶的展覽之一，於是就變成好像在新故宮那邊也有、這邊也有，實際上，我們新爭取的展覽經費，譬如原本是30萬，但是我辦了一個很大的展覽，於是就變成50萬，基本上，那筆30萬就會歸併，所以在預算書裡沒辦法很精確地呈現。"],["張委員雅琳：好，沒關係！其實這樣聽，我也不是很了解，會後我們就約個時間，針對這個部分提出說明，可以嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是，可以，沒有問題。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員。下一位是吳沛憶委員，我們在吳沛憶委員質詢結束之後，開始進行解凍案的處理。","請吳沛憶委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157786","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157786","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd82083609bcd8c88c4aee76a4a6acd55cc740f5094948cb68dbf16ab7446958c994ab1495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"11:13:26 - 11:27:47","影片長度":"00:14:21","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算。三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案。四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進會114年度預算書案。【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:13:26+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:27:47+08:00","duration":861,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-2-15-13"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.61659375,"end":6.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.27471875,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.876593750000001,"end":16.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.11471875,"end":43.197218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.838468750000004,"end":46.892843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.90534375,"end":59.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.88659375,"end":67.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.46346875,"end":69.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.81346875,"end":75.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.20471875,"end":85.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.63846875,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.44409375000001,"end":85.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":86.09346875,"end":87.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.75159375000001,"end":86.76846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.76409375,"end":90.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.78471875000001,"end":97.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":100.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.72409375000001,"end":105.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.38159375000001,"end":112.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.13159375000001,"end":112.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.19909375,"end":113.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.41846875,"end":115.86096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.40534375,"end":122.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.53909375,"end":123.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.57284375,"end":125.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.62346875,"end":124.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.44596875,"end":158.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.99346875,"end":159.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.31409375,"end":168.83159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.94971875000002,"end":180.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.54284375,"end":187.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.79096875000002,"end":192.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.29221875000002,"end":195.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.50284375,"end":198.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.62471875,"end":212.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.75721875000002,"end":226.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.09721875000002,"end":242.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.43221875,"end":248.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.35596875000002,"end":242.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.79471875000002,"end":242.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.92034375000003,"end":253.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.48096875000002,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.94909375,"end":254.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.80096875000004,"end":256.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.05784375,"end":311.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.01909375,"end":267.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":267.78659375,"end":271.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.31596875,"end":285.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.17596875000004,"end":289.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.14596875,"end":296.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.59159375,"end":301.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":308.25284375,"end":314.07471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.07471875000005,"end":342.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.58096875,"end":314.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.74534375,"end":343.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.62284375,"end":364.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.79159375,"end":344.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.49721875,"end":364.69971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.69971875000005,"end":387.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.71659375,"end":364.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.97034375000004,"end":415.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.97909375,"end":423.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.11346875000004,"end":417.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.81284375,"end":425.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.24284375,"end":448.51784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.51784375000005,"end":464.97096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.99034375,"end":449.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":463.09784375000004,"end":463.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.97096875000005,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.03846875000005,"end":489.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.86534375,"end":467.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.25221875000005,"end":474.70784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.64221875000004,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.07159375000003,"end":520.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.3672187500001,"end":522.7847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.86909375,"end":533.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.9015937500001,"end":532.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.11221875,"end":567.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.5034687500001,"end":567.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.55409375,"end":572.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.6384687500001,"end":569.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.05971875,"end":592.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":592.5459687499999,"end":610.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.61909375,"end":628.3884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.59096875,"end":635.5265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.5265937500001,"end":668.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.99846875,"end":699.3815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":673.90034375,"end":674.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.08971875,"end":712.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.40096875,"end":710.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.15596875,"end":721.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.55534375,"end":726.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":724.64346875,"end":724.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.34784375,"end":758.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.24596875,"end":730.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.26284375,"end":730.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.27971875,"end":730.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":737.14784375,"end":737.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":759.0009687500001,"end":766.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.8940937500001,"end":774.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.28971875,"end":774.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":774.3572187500001,"end":774.4753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.4753437500001,"end":775.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.0447187500001,"end":777.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":776.53409375,"end":777.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.6984687500001,"end":778.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":778.35659375,"end":779.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":778.7109687500001,"end":778.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":779.5209687500001,"end":780.2297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.2803437500002,"end":780.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.3984687500001,"end":781.3603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.59659375,"end":783.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":783.70596875,"end":784.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":785.10659375,"end":789.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.02159375,"end":792.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.76409375,"end":803.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.1672187500001,"end":809.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":809.9465937500001,"end":813.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.6340937500001,"end":814.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.04721875,"end":818.0634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.2197187500001,"end":825.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.4172187500001,"end":822.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.8259687500001,"end":834.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.9272187500001,"end":826.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.36909375,"end":837.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.9172187500001,"end":843.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":837.85784375,"end":838.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":842.88659375,"end":846.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":845.2490937500002,"end":851.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.40909375,"end":847.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":848.97846875,"end":849.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":849.82221875,"end":850.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.9609687500001,"end":855.44159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.171,"end":0.576,"text":"邱主委"},{"start":5.649,"end":30.594,"text":"許文豪邱主委好我想剛剛有幾位民進黨的委員都特別提到這個馬英九基金會邀請陸生來台的這個相關的事件我想當時這位這個陸生團的大學生提到說要向中國臺北隊在世界十二強賽中奪冠表示祝賀並稱希望大陸和臺灣同胞能一起為祖國在棒球領域一起努力"},{"start":31.255,"end":32.056,"text":"四、審查大陸委員會函送財四、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":48.384,"end":66.4,"text":"剛馬龍也講過臺灣隊我們都大部分的國人也認為這個我們的棒球是臺灣隊頂多你說到中華臺北那你講到有矮化的這個中國臺北這是中國慣用矮化我們的用詞"},{"start":67.461,"end":70.422,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":87.808,"end":93.731,"text":"基金會安排媒體但媒體要問什麼請問一下基金會會知道嗎就像媒體要問我們平常的問題請問一下陸委會有辦法叫它不要問嗎"},{"start":99.392,"end":121.61,"text":"請問媒體會讓你這樣子嗎?我跟委員報告,據瞭解基金會每天都有安排。對,我的意思是說媒體要問什麼問題,請問你陸委會可以做到,要求媒體問什麼問題嗎?對,因為是基金會要切結,他有跟我們切結。可是我的意思是說,如果今天媒體不管平常對你陸委會的提問,你可以要求他你要問什麼不能問什麼嗎?"},{"start":123.715,"end":124.796,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":144.614,"end":145.974,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":169.202,"end":185.02,"text":"對一個媒體主動詢問大學生的一個回應他站在他的國家的角度來看這件事情就像我們大學生站在我們國家的角度來看這件事情事實上我不曉得這個陸委會覺得不妥到底不妥在哪裡而且剛剛已經講過了這是媒體"},{"start":187.242,"end":188.183,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":213.096,"end":216.361,"text":"委員是這樣我們對這個團因為他持續要安排媒體採訪我們有跟他告誡有哪些話會引起台灣內部社會的對立所以我剛剛跟主委一樣就是說"},{"start":227.816,"end":229.297,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":249.068,"end":251.489,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":272.957,"end":289.025,"text":"兩岸這幾天的交流可以看得出來大家彼此都非常的珍惜這次能夠來台灣交流的機會。包括我們台灣大學生也認為跟陸生交流是非常好的一個經驗。所以說這個部分的話我覺得應該要多多鼓勵而不是光一個吹毛求疵。我覺得該用這樣子的一個吹毛求疵不能拿少數一兩個人的評論"},{"start":296.43,"end":296.93,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":314.133,"end":342.305,"text":"我覺得如果我們真的要堆疊兩岸的聲音希望兩岸能夠和平的交流這個部分我覺得陸委會不可以有既定的立場也不能因為執政黨給的壓力而你們就做出一個不符合真正大家是我們的全民所期待的一個方式如果真的希望兩岸的和諧的話不該說真的一方面要去挑釁人家一方面要說這個人家他們來到台灣的時候我們還用這樣的一個方式"},{"start":343.803,"end":366.566,"text":"希望我們主委能夠為兩岸交流能夠多盡一份努力另外再請教一下主委我們最近馬英九基金會邀請的陸生團來台的時候我們可以看到剛剛你也回答到陸生來台的研修生跟學衛生你可以看一下表目前研修生的人數大量的下滑"},{"start":367.347,"end":371.209,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":395.518,"end":400.6,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":424.208,"end":447.864,"text":"我們教育部主管機關有不斷的透過陸聯會跟對岸不斷的去溝通,對岸是還沒有回應。所以最主要的我們還是要呼籲,如果要真正做到剛剛所說的年輕人交流,最好的就是學生交流。"},{"start":448.584,"end":449.485,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":469.924,"end":489.015,"text":"講一句話就有可能被扣上這樣的大帽子那你說陸生怎麼來談?所以我覺得兩岸真的要堆疊生意我覺得在這方面必須要約束我覺得要約束我們這個執政黨的這些這些不管是委員、小編一直用這樣的一個方式去抹黑我覺得這也不是辦法那另外想請教一下你陸委會有評估過陸生減少對台灣整體教育環境跟地方經濟的衝擊嗎?"},{"start":496.521,"end":501.366,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":521.325,"end":521.965,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":538.411,"end":540.873,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":567.849,"end":570.03,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":592.863,"end":609.075,"text":"海基會114年度的預算針對協處台商人身安全與兩岸經貿糾紛的費用編列了135萬,跟去年是一樣。針對兩岸人身安全與急難救助相關的業務編列99萬6千,比去年多了40萬。"},{"start":610.7,"end":634.642,"text":"那我們當然可以接受增加40萬的經費支出但是今年陸委會捐助給海基會補助給海基會的預算增加了7521萬那針對台商、台生的急難救助卻兩邊加起來增加40萬而其他的溝通管道幾乎都停滯是不是反映陸委會跟海基會在經費的配置上出現問題了"},{"start":635.843,"end":654.395,"text":"跟委員報告,我們在中國大陸財商提供救助的部分,因為我們是按照去年的額度,我們陸委會補助了120萬加上海基會自己自籌的135萬,如果有用完的額度的話,我們願意再提供經費。"},{"start":655.796,"end":673.75,"text":"這個部分我們也跟大陸臺商有承諾就是說我們的臺商如果在大陸需要急難救助我們希望透過臺商協會跟我們一起合作把需要的國人送回來希望我們陸委會這邊跟海基會這邊因為既然今年的預算增加7521萬那我們在臺這個大陸的臺商跟臺生事實上他們急難救助是最需要我們這個陸委會臺基會這邊來幫忙的那也希望針對這個部分"},{"start":684.799,"end":686.6,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":704.124,"end":705.284,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":721.651,"end":722.191,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":737.176,"end":737.956,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人海峽交流基金會審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":767.927,"end":771.151,"text":"二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財二、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":789.511,"end":791.112,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":807.912,"end":809.334,"text":"三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財三、審查大陸委員會函送財"},{"start":826.013,"end":850.706,"text":"那剛剛有特別有講到了我們今年的預算才增加40萬喔所以針對這個部分我也覺得主委一定要好好的我們在其他科目的預算可以如果這邊有情緒的話那可能就拜託我們的主委針對這個部分一定你看8000多件如果只增加40萬的話完全沒有辦法處理當然不是這個因為還有其他的科目還有其他科目的話那可能因為我們現在查到的就是這樣好不好謝謝主委謝謝委員好接下來請黃建斌委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2475,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時13分）謝謝主席，我們是不是請陸委會邱主委？"],["主席：好，請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：邱主委好。剛剛有幾位民進黨的委員都特別提到馬英九基金會邀請陸生來臺的相關事件，我想當時這位陸生團的大學生提到要向「中國台北隊」在世界12強賽中奪冠表示祝賀，並稱希望大陸和臺灣同胞能一起為祖國在棒球領域一起努力，當然外界批評為吃臺灣豆腐，有發表對臺不當言論之虞，剛剛主委提到您也覺得不妥，請問一下不妥的言論是什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：馬龍也講過「台灣隊」，大部分的國人也認為我們的棒球是臺灣隊，頂多你說到「中華台北」，講到有矮化的「中國台北」，這是中國慣用矮化我們的用詞，我們國人都覺得不妥。"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，這位陸生是主動面對媒體，然後說出這段話，還是媒體採訪他？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想因為他有說他代表他們的代表團，而且……"],["許委員宇甄：是媒體主動採訪他的嗎？不是他主動對媒體？"],["邱主任委員垂正：基金會安排的。"],["許委員宇甄：基金會安排媒體，但媒體要問什麼，請問一下基金會會知道嗎？就像媒體要問我們平常的問題，請問一下，陸委會有辦法叫他不要問嗎？請問媒體會讓你這樣子嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，據瞭解，基金會每天都有安排，我們……"],["許委員宇甄：對！我的意思是媒體要問什麼問題，請問陸委會可以做到要求媒體問什麼問題嗎？陸委會可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，因為是基金會要切結，它有跟我們切結……"],["許委員宇甄：不是，我的意思是如果今天媒體，不管是平常對陸委會的提問，你可以要求他們要問什麼、不能問什麼嗎？不可能嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們當然要尊重媒體的發問權。"],["許委員宇甄：對啊！在媒體自由的時代，他們要問什麼，你覺得馬英九基金會有辦法要求他們只能問這題，不能問那題嗎？你應該是要求媒體不要問這類的問題，而不是來要求馬英九基金會，而且我想對於來臺的陸生，「中國台北」是他們的慣用語，就像我們其實對外的名稱是「中華台北」，但我們的慣用語是「臺灣」，所以我們也都非常尊重。針對這個部分，其實他這段話有涉及政治性的言論跟宣傳嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個是他給我們的聲明、切結書，我們也希望他能夠按照這個切結書來落實。"],["許委員宇甄：對一個媒體主動詢問大學生的回應，他站在他的國家角度來看這件事情，就像我們大學生站在我們國家的角度來看這件事情，事實上我不曉得陸委會到底覺得不妥在哪裡？而且剛剛已經講過了，這是媒體……"],["邱主任委員垂正：不妥的原因就是我們臺灣社會不同立場的人有不同的爭論。"],["許委員宇甄：我們臺灣是強調言論自由的國家……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們希望那個訪談在臺灣進行都沒有社會的爭論。"],["許委員宇甄：基本上，他來到臺灣之後，他有他國家的慣用語，我們當然就是尊重，至於這個部分，我不曉得到底為什麼這麼說，剛剛還有委員提到這是統戰團，請問一下現在來的統戰團，都是誰核准可以進來的？"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，是這樣啦！我們對這個團，因為他們持續要安排媒體採訪，我們有跟他們告誡，哪些話會引起臺灣內部社會對立，如果他們刻意引發對立……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我剛剛有跟主委講，如果陸委會可以做到要求媒體問什麼問題的話，我相信馬英九基金會就可以做得到，不可能嘛！媒體要問什麼，我們不知道，就像有時候我們常常被媒體堵麥，他會問什麼問題，事實上我們也不清楚，我認為這件事情……"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們對其他的團都要求「三不一低調」，就是不能讓媒體對外採訪，但是馬英九基金會就希望能夠比照去年的……"],["許委員宇甄：因為我們希望，陸委會口口聲聲說要堆疊善意跟兩岸交流……"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，是。"],["許委員宇甄：現在兩岸交流幾乎是停滯的狀態，陸委會口口聲聲說希望能夠堆疊善意，可是實際上就不是這樣啊！目前的話，針對這些大學生來跟我們交流……"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是引發臺灣社會的對立，這樣的交流方式不是很正常、健康。"],["許委員宇甄：事實上，從兩岸大學生這幾天的交流可以看得出來，大家彼此都非常地珍惜這次能夠來臺灣交流的機會，包括我們臺灣的大學生也認為跟陸生交流是非常好的經驗。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是、是！委員說得是。"],["許委員宇甄：所以對這個部分，我覺得應該要多多鼓勵，而不是在那邊吹毛求疵，我覺得不應該用這樣子的吹毛求疵……"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然也引發校園的不安，也有人去抗議，所以引發社會的抗議，我們不樂見。"],["許委員宇甄：你不能拿少數一、兩個人的言論來說引起大家的抗議，我覺得這樣真的非常不妥。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是、是。"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分剛剛一直提到要怎麼懲處或什麼的，我覺得不能未審先判，我們應該是要瞭解整個的狀況。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有，我們剛剛說了，我們會依照既有的行政程序來處理。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得如果我們真的要堆疊兩岸的善意，希望兩岸能夠和平交流，在這個部分，我覺得陸委會不可以有既定的立場，也不能因為執政黨給的壓力，你們就做出不符合全民真正所期待的方式。如果真的希望兩岸和諧，說真的不應該一方面去挑釁人家，一方面又在他們來到臺灣的時候，我們還用這樣的一個方式，希望主委能夠為兩岸交流多盡一份努力。","另外，再請教一下主委，最近馬英九基金會邀請的陸生團來臺，我們可以看到，剛剛你也回答到，陸生來臺的研修生跟學位生，你可以看一下這張表，目前研修生的人數大量地下滑，學位生其實也是一樣。我看到您剛剛的報告裡面有說我們要增加讓陸生來臺的研修計畫，教育部現在也在研擬中，請問一下，針對陸生來臺，目前陸委會跟大陸溝通情況如何？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，就我們的政策，我們一向歡迎陸生來臺就讀，不管是學位生，還是研修生。從2020年4月，中國大陸就以疫情和政治的理由，不讓他們的學位生來臺，這已經4年了，所以學位生的數字一直在下降，現在大概只剩下一千多人，反而是研修生比較多。"],["許委員宇甄：我想請教，賴總統已經講了，希望大陸的陸生可以來臺就學，請問一下，目前你們跟大陸溝通的狀況如何？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們的主管機關教育部有不斷透過陸聯會跟對岸溝通。"],["許委員宇甄：那目前溝通的狀況怎麼樣？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前對岸還沒有回應。"],["許委員宇甄：還沒有回應嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：最主要我們還是要呼籲，如果要真正做到剛剛所說的年輕人的交流，最好的就是學生交流……"],["許委員宇甄：學生來臺交流，他講的話、其實綜觀看起來，有什麼大問題嗎？沒有，但是我們卻一直吹毛求疵，給這個大學生加扣大帽子，那你覺得他們還敢來臺嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：不是給那位大學生，而是他引發了我們臺灣社會……"],["許委員宇甄：如果你是陸生的話，你敢來臺嗎？講一句話就有可能被扣上這樣的大帽子，那你說陸生怎麼來臺？我覺得兩岸真的要堆疊善意，這方面必須要約束執政黨，不管是委員或小編，他們一直都用這樣的方式去抹黑，我覺得這也不是辦法。","另外想要再請教一下，陸委會有評估過陸生減少對臺灣整體教育環境及地方經濟的衝擊嗎？以雲林環球科技大學為例，本來他們有很多來臺的陸生，可是這幾年陸生沒有來之後，現在環球科大也已經停止招生了，其實很多學校都面臨這樣的問題。既然我們覺得陸生來臺就學可以促進兩岸交流，可以讓我們的學生、不管是臺生或陸生都可以有好的溝通管道，那為什麼到目前為止這部分還是卡住？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我想卡住是在陸方，陸方也許有很多複雜的思考，不過，我們歡迎陸生來臺，不管是學位生或是研修生我們都歡迎。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，如果卡住的原因是在陸方的話，事實上，不管是陸委會或海基會，只要陸方卡住，我們就完全沒有作為的話，那事實上這2個單位也不必要存在了。因為只要陸方卡住，決定權就在陸方嗎？不是嘛！我覺得不管是邱主委或是海基會，其實你們都很願意兩岸溝通，但是我覺得要有正確的作法，如果我們在臺灣動不動就開始講：「你的言論不妥，應該要處分，應該要有相關的言行」，這樣兩岸的關係永遠都不會好，再麻煩一下主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然，我們也不希望陸方有太多傷害臺灣人民情感的言論。"],["許委員宇甄：傷害臺灣人民情感？請問一下，這個部分你要不要做一個民調？針對這個部分，到底有多少人認為這是傷害臺灣人民的情感？還是只有少部分的人？我覺得這部分不能只是片面之詞。","另外，想請教一下。不好意思，主席，再給我2分鐘的時間。海基會114年度的預算，針對協處臺商人身安全與兩岸經貿糾紛的費用編列了135萬元，跟去年一樣。針對兩岸人身安全與急難救助相關業務，你們編列了99萬6,000元，比去年多了40萬元，我們當然可以接受增加40萬元的經費支出，但是今年陸委會補助給海基會的預算增加7,521萬元。針對臺商和臺生的急難救助，兩邊加起來只有增加40萬元，其他的溝通管道幾乎都停滯，這是不是反映陸委會和海基會在經費的配置上出現問題了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，就在中國大陸的臺商急難救助這部分，因為我們是按照去年的額度補助120萬元，加上海基會自籌的135萬元，如果額度用完的話，我們願意再提供經費，這個部分我們已經有承諾大陸的臺商，如果臺商在大陸需要急難救助，我們希望臺商協會可以跟我們一起合作把需要的國人送回來。"],["許委員宇甄：希望陸委會和海基會，因為既然今年經費增加7,521萬元，那在大陸的臺商和臺生，事實上，他們的急難救助是最需要陸委會和海基會來幫忙的，也希望針對這個部分，請主委、董事長和秘書長針對臺商、臺生的急難救助預算再多做考量，要不然的話，我覺得這樣的經費配置是有問題的。","最後再請教一下，剛剛有提到，現在到大陸旅遊是列為橙色警戒，剛剛主委一直提到，希望能夠登錄中、港、澳的登錄系統。"],["邱主任委員垂正：動態登錄系統。"],["許委員宇甄：對，剛剛張智倫委員也有特別的提到，他用不同的姓名進行登錄，結果也登錄成功。當然，他是要測試這個系統的正確性與否，但是我們也不可否認有一種狀況，那就是我在登錄的時候，我可能登錄錯誤，自己卻沒有察覺到。也就是說，我覺得自己登錄了，但是當我在大陸有需要的時候，事實上有可能我們這邊完全沒有資料，所以顯見這個登錄系統有非常大的問題，所以目前只有5%的人登錄，甚至急難救助連一件申請案都沒有。針對這個部分，請問主委要怎麼處理？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們急難救助的數量還是非常龐大，就以去年為例，我們還是有四千多件。至於港澳這部分的急難救助量更多，有4,834件。總的一點，就剛剛講的那個登錄系統，那是我們要幫忙國人，我們有他的電話就可以直接提供他服務。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我現在講的是如果我不小心登錄錯誤的話。"],["邱主任委員垂正：登錄率或是優化的部分，我們除了不斷優化之外，我們也有請專人，任何人都可以打電話給我們，我們最近也公布了3支電話，包括港、澳和中國大陸，我們海基會和陸委會都會一起來服務國人。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這部分的優化，請問什麼時候？否則大家都去登錄，結果登錄了也沒用，大概要多久的時間才能完成優化？"],["邱主任委員垂正：現在就很優化了，而且現在還有專人服務。"],["許委員宇甄：張智倫委員才剛剛登錄耶！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，這個我們會馬上處理。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得這有很大的問題，剛剛你也特別講到，我們有非常多件的急難救助，加起來應該算是八千多件。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們來努力。"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛有特別講到，我們今年的預算才增加40萬元，所以針對這個部分，我覺得主委一定要好好的來分配經費。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還有其他科目的預算，如果這邊有急需的話。"],["許委員宇甄：好，拜託主委！針對這個部分，如果八千多件只增加40萬元，那這完全沒有辦法處理。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然不是只有這個，我們還有其他的科目。"],["許委員宇甄：如果還有其他科目的話，那可能……因為我們現在查到的就是這樣，好不好？"],["邱主任委員垂正：好，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請黃建賓委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-15-13","speakers":["徐欣瑩","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","王美惠","李柏毅","張智倫","黃捷","蘇巧慧","許宇甄","黃建賓","賴士葆","吳琪銘","丁學忠","王義川","葉元之","黃國昌","羅智強","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員及財團法人海峽交流基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於大陸委員會單位預算；三、審查大陸委員會函送財團法\n人海峽交流基金會114年度預算書案；四、審查大陸委員會函送財團法人臺港經濟文化合作策進\n會114年度預算書案【所列預算案僅詢答，另定期處理】","agenda_id":"11311101_00001"}}},{"id":"157785","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157785","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836030048a913e131d032ad4098cec3b17fd94948cb68dbf16ab267846fbddf791135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"11:19:56 - 11:26:45","影片長度":"00:06:49","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:19:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:26:45+08:00","duration":409,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.24909375,"end":12.062843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.83534375,"end":10.544093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.699718750000002,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.20159375,"end":50.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":51.752843750000004,"end":57.540968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.540968750000005,"end":60.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.52784375,"end":64.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.35846875,"end":67.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.10909375,"end":67.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.29034375,"end":71.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.77909375,"end":73.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.13346875,"end":74.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.02346875,"end":77.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.17471875000001,"end":83.00534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.88721875,"end":107.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.76096875,"end":144.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":145.12221875,"end":148.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.26909375,"end":164.74784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.66909375,"end":156.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.74784375000002,"end":164.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.04721875,"end":169.70909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.33346875,"end":175.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.18971875,"end":172.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.75909375,"end":193.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.73909375000002,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.98721875,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":203.34096875,"end":209.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.30659375000002,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":210.54659375,"end":215.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.52471875,"end":219.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.55409375000002,"end":216.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":218.25846875000002,"end":219.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.20346875,"end":219.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.77721875,"end":219.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.79409375,"end":222.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.54471875000002,"end":226.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.66284375,"end":227.92784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.62409375000001,"end":232.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.92346875,"end":230.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.28159375,"end":233.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.67784375000002,"end":236.29784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.51721875,"end":238.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.35659375,"end":245.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.45721875,"end":242.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.91284375,"end":242.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.61284375000002,"end":249.07221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.07221875000002,"end":249.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.54471875000002,"end":249.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.00034375,"end":252.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.79346875000002,"end":252.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.31221875000003,"end":270.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.57096875,"end":271.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.33034375,"end":281.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.84471875,"end":274.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.39284375,"end":276.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":281.38784375,"end":291.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.46659375,"end":292.72784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.74471875,"end":298.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.89659375,"end":293.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.58409375,"end":295.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.85346875000005,"end":300.64221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.74784375,"end":299.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.18659375000004,"end":301.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.99221875,"end":305.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":305.72159375,"end":308.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.84784375000004,"end":315.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.11721875,"end":312.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.71159375,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.62221875,"end":321.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.56284375,"end":323.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.03534375000004,"end":323.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.05221875,"end":323.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":323.89596875,"end":323.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.91284375000004,"end":327.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.13159375000004,"end":328.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":328.97534375000004,"end":332.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.07596875,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":336.70409375,"end":341.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.51784375,"end":340.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":342.52596875,"end":342.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.01096875,"end":348.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":348.58409375,"end":353.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":353.17409375,"end":366.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.24159375000005,"end":353.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.15284375000005,"end":354.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.24346875000003,"end":377.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":377.03534375000004,"end":383.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.70096875,"end":389.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.74221875,"end":392.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.37909375000004,"end":396.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.12096875000003,"end":396.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.74534375,"end":396.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.91409375,"end":397.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.26846875,"end":400.13721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":399.68159375000005,"end":403.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.35221875,"end":402.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":403.54596875000004,"end":405.35159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.638,"end":10.122,"text":"麻煩請複密,議事處處長麻煩複密,議事處處長委員好"},{"start":15.41,"end":41.467,"text":"副委員請教一下因為昨天晚上南韓宣布戒嚴後來民進黨有發一個社群的貼文非常肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情就是說那次尹錫悅為了要守護自由憲政體制然後下面就開始罵立法院前面在罵藍白這是他們的觀點我們當然不認同但是後面一句講到藍白我就很好奇他說藍白百般刁難王逸川就職"},{"start":42.748,"end":70.908,"text":"我很想請教一下王逸川就職的時候藍白立委有哪一位是在現場嗎這個是這個不知道是立法院哪一個單位辦的就職 王逸川就職典禮人事處辦人事處喔那不明知道狀況嗎你有在現場嗎我有陪大法官到那邊見那請問一下藍白誰百般刁難王逸川就職在現場的應該都是我們民進黨的委員沒有藍白喔那你有感覺到藍白有在刁難嗎"},{"start":72.816,"end":77.005,"text":"基本上人事處有覺得藍白有刁難王一川就職嗎"},{"start":79.369,"end":106.298,"text":"報告委員我們都是依照時間跟程序跟法規來辦理沒有有看有還是沒有嗎沒有嗎所以為什麼民進黨要造謠啊我我我都連南韓戒嚴這件事情民進黨都可以發文造謠這個造謠黨也太誇張了那我想另問另外一件事情南韓昨天戒嚴之後啊後來解嚴的原因我相信大家昨天都有看到嗎就是他們的國會議員爬到立呃爬到他們的那個立議場裡面去後來表決好讓這個"},{"start":107.839,"end":131.486,"text":"就是解嚴了萬一你看民進黨現在這麼肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情昨天很多民進黨支持者也在網路上講對啦台灣就要戒嚴啦藍白就在亂啦就是要戒嚴了哇我們現在很擔心會不會民進黨真的宣布戒嚴那現在假設民進黨戒嚴的話因為我看到我們憲法是有一條就是說立法院必要時得以請總統戒嚴"},{"start":134.147,"end":143.296,"text":"假設同樣的狀況發生在臺灣可能總統軍隊包圍然後我們立法委員這樣爬進來我不知道說這個議事要怎麼處理這個議事大概會怎麼處理如果發生在我們臺灣的狀況的話"},{"start":150.585,"end":169.271,"text":"委員報告我們院會有固定的院會時間但是如果有這種緊急狀況的話當然會透過朝野或是由院長來請大家在針對這種情形來看是不是要你是說如果有緊急狀況大家要先爬進來嗎這個是分事實跟意識程序如果是事實部分的話"},{"start":170.427,"end":192.499,"text":"就是本來開會的時候我要從我們的立法院這樣進行我們這個模擬一下因為昨天民進黨很肯定南韓戒嚴這個事我們是擔心說他們會不會比照辦理假設發生這個狀況依照我們憲法立法院是可以決議以請總統解嚴那假設我們要進行這樣的一個決議程序上是怎樣在意識上處理上是怎樣"},{"start":193.78,"end":215.166,"text":"如果說依照戒嚴法如果說總統與巡視緊急時經過行政院陳請他宣告的戒嚴可是他必須在一個月內提交我們立法院的追認對對對追認但是我講的是戒嚴的狀況戒嚴是憲法規定的對立法院可以得以移情他說對對對那就是在那麼緊急的狀況那我們要怎麼去進行這個程序"},{"start":215.732,"end":233.709,"text":"當然就是召集委員會之後有人提案然後立刻處理那就是還是要先爬進來嘛對不對如果一樣的狀況先集合開會嘛就是先大家先進到議場裡面嘛對先組法定人數然後會議是合法然後有人提案就處理這個那可以臨時召開嘛對不對"},{"start":234.71,"end":258.067,"text":"召開的部分就是說我們因為現在那個是屬於特殊狀況對平常我們是正常都是二五在開院會沒錯那這種特殊狀況的話可能院長一定會請朝野黨團先來溝通然後再來看怎麼還要先溝通因為這個根據那個以前沒有發生過我看到每一次那個朝野協商都是大家就扯東扯西扯一些程序東西就會讓這個會議沒辦法進行"},{"start":259.668,"end":277.563,"text":"那這麼緊急的情況之下還是有可能面臨這個狀況嗎就是扯東扯西然後院長召開朝野協商然後最後這個會開不成那開不成就沒有辦法做成解嚴的決議是這個意思這種是屬於憲政上重大的事情到時候如果聽取各黨團意見之後院長還是本於他"},{"start":279.624,"end":304.774,"text":"他會去做相關的處理所以他可以聽完大家意見之後他可以決定說那我們現在開院會來決定是不是要通過這個解嚴的決議案然後移給總統是這個意思嗎如果是在會期中當然立法院就在運作對如果休會的話依照憲法規定他有所謂臨時會的問題他有臨時會的問題對對對那臨時會的問題要怎麼解臨時會依照憲法規定四分之一委員有提議我們就要開臨時會"},{"start":305.802,"end":334.27,"text":"就是要先開臨時會然後再進到院會在協會期間如果總統有宣布戒嚴送這個案子來但是依照法律規定來我們必要就要開追認的會議那這樣聽起來感覺好像我們沒辦法像昨天那個南韓動作這麼快可能就要戒嚴一段時間聽起來緊急集會然後去通過一個解除戒嚴的道理瞭解我順便再問一個再一個問題請問一下那個現在韓院長有出訪計劃嗎"},{"start":336.721,"end":337.923,"text":"你剛剛問那個是不是要問那個國際處是不是這個我比較不知道國際事務處是嗎"},{"start":344.059,"end":366.543,"text":"有沒有接到什麼消息是韓院長要去美國參加慶賀團有嗎這部分我們還在等這個總統府跟立法院的外交部的通知所以都還沒有是不是目前還沒有那如果假設啦假設我問一下如果說韓院長是當這個慶賀團代表因為過去都是立法院院長嘛不知道這次是不是啦如果是韓院長的話那立法院會有多少人陪同"},{"start":368.377,"end":383.451,"text":"這一部分可能到時候也要由我們這個社會機構外交部跟駐美代表處跟美方溝通邮場決定這個但這邊您這邊一定會接到通知嗎對不對然後到時候再派人嗎那目前是都還沒有接到通知"},{"start":384.352,"end":384.372,"text":"好謝謝謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":846,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時20分）麻煩請副秘、議事處處長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘、議事處處長。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：請教副秘，昨天晚上南韓宣布戒嚴，後來民進黨有發一個社群的貼文，非常肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情，就是尹錫悅為了要守護自由憲政體制，然後下面就開始罵立法院，前面在罵藍白啦，這是他們的觀點，我們當然不認同。但是後面有一句，講到藍白我就很好奇啊，他說藍白百般刁難王義川就職。我想請教一下，王義川就職的時候，藍白立委有哪一位在現場嗎？不曉得王義川就職典禮是立法院哪一個單位辦的？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：人事處辦的。"],["葉委員元之：人事處喔！那副秘知道狀況嗎？你有在現場嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我有陪大法官到那邊。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，藍白誰百般刁難王義川就職啊？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：在現場的應該都是民進黨的委員。"],["葉委員元之：沒有藍白喔？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：除了……"],["葉委員元之：那你有感覺到藍白立委有在刁難嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上……"],["葉委員元之：請教人事處，你覺得藍白有刁難王義川就職嗎？"],["黃處長瑞月：報告委員，我們都是依照時間、程序跟法規來辦理。"],["葉委員元之：我是問你有還是沒有嘛？沒有嘛！所以為什麼民進黨要造謠啊？我不知道連南韓戒嚴這件事情，民進黨都可以發文造謠，這個造謠黨也太誇張了。","我想問另外一件事情，南韓昨天戒嚴之後，後來解嚴的原因，我相信大家昨天都有看到嘛，就是他們的國會議員爬到議場裡面，後來表決，於是就解嚴了。你看民進黨現在這麼肯定南韓戒嚴這件事情，昨天很多民進黨支持者也在網路上講：對啦！臺灣就是要戒嚴啊，藍白就在亂啊，就是要戒嚴了。哇！我們現在很擔心，會不會民進黨真的宣布戒嚴？現在假設民進黨戒嚴的話，因為我看到憲法是有一條，就是立法院必要時得移請總統解嚴，假設同樣的狀況發生在臺灣，可能總統的軍隊包圍，然後我們立法委員這樣爬進來，我不知道這個議事要怎麼處理？這個議事大概會怎麼處理？如果發生在我們臺灣的話。"],["高處長百祥：跟委員報告，我們院會有固定的院會時間，但是如果有這種緊急狀況的話，當然會透過朝野或是由院長請大家針對這種情形來看是不是要……"],["葉委員元之：你是說如果有緊急狀況，大家……那要先爬進來嗎？"],["高處長百祥：這是分事實跟議事程序，如果是事實部分的話，本來開會的時候，委員就要進來立法院……"],["葉委員元之：不是，我們要模擬一下嘛，因為昨天民進黨很肯定南韓戒嚴這個事，我們是擔心他們會不會比照辦理，假設發生這個狀況，依照我們憲法，立法院是可以決議移請總統解嚴，假設我們要進行這樣的一個決議，程序上是怎樣？在議事上、處理上是怎樣？"],["高處長百祥：依照戒嚴法，如果總統於情勢緊急時，經過行政院之呈請而宣告戒嚴，可是他必須在一個月內提交我們立法院追認。"],["葉委員元之：對，這是追認，但是我講的是解嚴的狀況，解嚴是憲法規定的，就是立法院可以……"],["高處長百祥：就是立法院認為必要時，得決議移請總統解嚴。"],["葉委員元之：對、對，那就是在那麼緊急的狀況，我們要怎麼去進行這個程序？"],["高處長百祥：當然就是召集院會之後，有人提案，然後就立刻處理。"],["葉委員元之：那就是還是要先爬進來嘛，對不對？如果遇到這樣的狀況……"],["高處長百祥：必須先集合開會。"],["葉委員元之：先集合開會嘛，就是大家先進到議場裡面嘛……"],["高處長百祥：先足法定人數，如果議事合法，然後有人提案就處理。"],["葉委員元之：可以臨時召開嘛，對不對？"],["高處長百祥：召開的部分就是因為這個是屬於特殊狀況，平常我們正常都是禮拜二、五開院會。"],["葉委員元之：沒錯。"],["高處長百祥：有這種特殊狀況的話，院長一定會請朝野黨團先來溝通，然後再來看怎麼……"],["葉委員元之：還要先溝通喔？"],["高處長百祥：因為這個沒有發生過。"],["葉委員元之：我看到每一次朝野協商，大家就是扯東扯西扯一些程序的東西，就是讓會議沒辦法進行，那這麼緊急的情況之下，還是有可能面臨這個狀況嘛，就是扯東扯西，然後院長召開朝野協商，最後這個會開不成，然後開不成就沒有辦法做成解嚴的決議，是這個意思？"],["高處長百祥：這種是屬於憲政上重大的事情，到時候如果聽取各黨團意見之後，院長還是本於他……"],["葉委員元之：他還是可以決定嘛？"],["高處長百祥：他會去做相關的處理。"],["葉委員元之：所以他聽完大家意見之後，他可以決定現在開院會，來決定是不是要通過這個解嚴的決議案，然後移給總統，是這個意思嗎？"],["高處長百祥：如果是在會期中，當然立法院就在運作，如果休會的話，依照憲法規定有所謂臨時會的問題。"],["葉委員元之：有臨時會的問題？"],["高處長百祥：對、對。"],["葉委員元之：那臨時會的問題要怎麼解？"],["高處長百祥：臨時會是依照憲法規定，有四分之一委員提議，我們就要開臨時會。"],["葉委員元之：就是要先開臨時會，然後再進到院會……"],["高處長百祥：如果說是在休會期間，如果總統宣布戒嚴送這個案子來，但是依照法律規定，我們必須要開追認的會議。"],["葉委員元之：這樣聽起來，感覺好像我們沒辦法像昨天南韓動作這麼快，可能就要戒嚴一段時間了，聽起來是這樣。"],["高處長百祥：等於是緊急集會，然後去通過一個解除戒嚴的……"],["葉委員元之：瞭解。我順便再問一個問題，請問現在韓院長有出訪計畫嗎？這是不是要問國際事務處？"],["高處長百祥：這個我比較不知道。"],["葉委員元之：那請教國際事務處，有沒有接到什麼消息是韓院長要去美國參加慶賀團？"],["林處長晨富：這部分我們還在等總統府跟外交部的通知。"],["葉委員元之：所以都還沒有是不是？"],["林處長晨富：目前還沒有。"],["葉委員元之：我問一下，假設韓院長當這個慶賀團代表，因為過去都是立法院院長，不知道這次是不是？如果是韓院長的話，立法院會有多少人陪同？"],["林處長晨富：這部分可能到時候也要由涉外機構，即外交部跟駐美代表處跟美方溝通以後才能決定這個代表團。"],["葉委員元之：但您這邊一定會接到通知，對不對？會接到通知，然後到時候再派人，那目前是都還沒有接到通知？"],["林處長晨富：原則上照以往的慣例，只要外交部正式行文給立法院秘書長，我們就正式啟動。"],["葉委員元之：以往大概是什麼時候？"],["林處長晨富：以往大概是在12月中旬之前會有訊息過來。"],["葉委員元之：12月中旬才會有訊息，所以現在可能就是還不能對外發布，還在等待？"],["林處長晨富：這幾天可能還在等正式的函知。"],["葉委員元之：OK，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員不在。","賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員、賴士葆委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在。","下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}},{"id":"157784","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157784","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd8208360bb32c90daea10a56b1ffdbb9442e4f6e94948cb68dbf16ab33e48bbe8774fc435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"11:16:15 - 11:25:55","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案。\n二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案。\n三、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算(公務預算)解凍案3案。\n（第一案及第二案僅進行詢答，相關預算提案請於12月12日下午2時前提出））","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:16:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:25:55+08:00","duration":580,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":11,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-2-22-11"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.469093750000001,"end":6.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.40534375,"end":8.316593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.079718750000001,"end":13.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.21034375,"end":13.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.25659375,"end":25.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.27159375,"end":36.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.345968750000004,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.078468750000006,"end":63.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.46409375,"end":63.531593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.531593750000006,"end":63.632843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.632843750000006,"end":68.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.649718750000005,"end":63.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.79659375,"end":69.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.31971875,"end":83.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.37721875000001,"end":79.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.08534375,"end":89.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.58659375,"end":89.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.67096875,"end":94.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.10471875,"end":106.84971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.92721875000001,"end":97.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.18721875,"end":107.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.94659375,"end":137.62971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.25409375,"end":149.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.94846875000002,"end":150.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.53909375,"end":163.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.44846875000002,"end":168.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.89909375000002,"end":170.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.52346875,"end":169.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.45159375,"end":233.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.28971875000002,"end":281.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.70846875,"end":282.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.31596875,"end":290.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.93471875,"end":298.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.67221875,"end":299.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.32596875,"end":301.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.50721875,"end":311.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.48971875,"end":305.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.78846875,"end":324.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.84284375000004,"end":313.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.98596875000004,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.38971875000004,"end":323.74409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.33471875000004,"end":345.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.82346875,"end":329.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.17096875000004,"end":369.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.90971875,"end":380.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.81971875000005,"end":381.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.42284375,"end":406.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.52784375000005,"end":384.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.29971875,"end":386.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.47534375000004,"end":396.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.60034375000004,"end":420.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.57284375,"end":481.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.68096875000003,"end":519.5615937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.21159375,"end":523.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":523.4428437500001,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.1515937500001,"end":526.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":524.21909375,"end":524.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.88534375,"end":528.9440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.1128437500001,"end":529.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.17596875,"end":533.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.38221875,"end":550.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.96596875,"end":552.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":551.42159375,"end":556.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":556.8215937500001,"end":561.1753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":560.21346875,"end":560.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.4284687500001,"end":561.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.81659375,"end":562.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.20471875,"end":565.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.90909375,"end":564.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.8034687500001,"end":569.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.18721875,"end":566.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.10221875,"end":572.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.89096875,"end":576.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.1015937500001,"end":574.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.3334687500001,"end":575.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.3797187499999,"end":579.7378437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.56,"end":4.942,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":12.373,"end":35.203,"text":"國委員長好 院長辛苦了那11月30號就是馬辦邀請了陸生來台舉報的故宮那展間一度水洩不通很多人是就是要來索取簽名等等那當天其實我們比較擔心的是因為在展間當中有很多的國寶"},{"start":36.374,"end":46.442,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":47.436,"end":68.406,"text":"跟委員報告因為大美不遠的話本身它就是一個排隊的展覽那一天的確是因為有這個訪問團的話就讓場面有點稍微混亂一點可是因為故宮基本上來講本來就已經有因應所以只是人潮擁擠一點的話其他的志氣都還算正常"},{"start":68.826,"end":69.626,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":95.151,"end":106.21,"text":"一般熱潮到故宮南院,如果北部沒有看的話我在這邊呼籲現在不用急著去擠會場,到南部南院去看也蠻好的。"},{"start":108.063,"end":137.275,"text":"那我接下來想要問的就是我們的新故宮計畫這個北部的院區我們有一個擴建的一個進度那當然我們知道這個北院的整擴建的部分其實10月底執行率也高達了84.12%那目前我比較想要知道的就是在至善路的入口那個無障礙的通道的新建的一個工程那目前的這個這個工程進行的狀況如何然後它的期程大概是多久"},{"start":139.529,"end":147.899,"text":"這個基本上來講臺北市政府的杜花他們已經審議通過然後現在在進行細部設計然後就是那個計畫的公開閱覽"},{"start":150.62,"end":153.041,"text":"我們現在的話程序上的話是明年開工然後116年完工"},{"start":168.936,"end":171.557,"text":"第116年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":192.324,"end":208.124,"text":"今年到10月底我們的參觀總共合計的人次是到達的人次大概是56.89%那這個部分其實我們當然希望就是明年又剛好是這個故宮100plus"},{"start":209.326,"end":212.388,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮博物院主管"},{"start":234.675,"end":254.836,"text":"我想故宮北院的話反部回升所以事實上今年的話大概可以達到180萬200萬達不到那故宮南院的話可以超越去年95萬這個我想是可以達到的雖然是不理想但是事實上是一點點的進展"},{"start":257.038,"end":281.414,"text":"南北縣我希望明年還是達到350萬為目標350萬的話北縣會比較有挑戰但是南縣的話明年超過100萬絕對沒有問題因為南縣的話明年我們會把一些重要的文物到南縣去展另外的話我們也會跟旅行業者跟旅館業者做一個套票讓他們去看南縣的這些大展"},{"start":282.295,"end":307.142,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":307.142,"end":324.343,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":324.403,"end":324.743,"text":"議員主席議員"},{"start":346.309,"end":369.111,"text":"至於我們看到的這些數據從108年到113年在第1屆姊妹館的部分只有在111年的時候其實我們增加了一個一館那另外在簽訂MOU的部分在110年的時候只有增加了一個單位一個機構那這個部分我們是在跟國際來做跨國的一些合作的部分是有碰到什麼樣的瓶頸嗎?"},{"start":371.536,"end":391.664,"text":"這個部分就是在疫情期間的話當然就是實際上之前的簽約的話就是有點延續但是有延續但是停滯了對停滯了那我這兩年的話我們就開始把那個現在拉回來所以像上個上個月是上個月吧我們跟那個蒙古簽約這個基本上來講蒙古的那個"},{"start":394.445,"end":420.555,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":420.615,"end":429.519,"text":"接下來因為時間的關係我們直接進到下一題故宮我們特別開放所謂的資料深度運用的一個計畫它是一個五年的計畫從110年到114年當然我們也知道這個總預算當中其實也包含了我們的線上學校平台功能的一個設置就是我們可能運用一些數位的科技來進行AI的一個教學的運用"},{"start":448.929,"end":463.554,"text":"那當然也特別要響應這個教育部108的新課綱以素養為導向為主軸強化這個故宮的文物跟現場教學的一個環境的一個結合但是我想要問的是就是113年故宮開設的這個所謂的教育頻道其實跟前幾年開放平台學習的人數這個人數落差很大從這個24萬、34萬一直到113年剩下9萬7"},{"start":477.739,"end":500.64,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":500.7,"end":502.821,"text":"二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算"},{"start":530.259,"end":550.407,"text":"因為那個落差的話實際上是差太多了好,那另外最後一個問題我想請教的就是我們的故宮的教育頻道這個線上的一個學校就聽我說文物這個部分雖然我們有一個英文版增加了國際化可是到目前為止聽說是兩年沒有更新了這個有其他的規劃還是為什麼兩年沒更新這個部分"},{"start":552.068,"end":578.199,"text":"這個部分我再了解一下到底是那個是讓他休眠還是說有其他的中共發聲好就是內容沒有更新的部分同仁講了說之前是一個專案專案結束之後的話就是就不會再更新也沒有其他的新的規劃我再了解一下因為這一塊我再了解一下我看怎麼處理再麻煩跟我們辦公室提供一下資料謝謝謝謝主席謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1035,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（11時16分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：蕭院長請。"],["蕭院長宗煌：郭委員早。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，院長辛苦了！11月30號馬辦邀請了陸生來臺擠爆了故宮，展間一度水洩不通，很多人就是要來索取簽名等等，當天其實我們比較擔心的是，展間當中有很多的國寶，這個部分後來有沒有研擬出，就是將來如果碰到類似的狀況，我們那個動線應該要怎麼樣來做比較合理的管理？"],["蕭院長宗煌：跟委員報告，因為「大美不言」本身就是一個排隊的展覽，那天的確是因為有這個訪問團，讓場面有稍微混亂一點，可是因為故宮基本上來講，本來就已經有因應，所以只是人潮擁擠一點的話，其他的秩序都還算正常。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我們希望其他的展覽也能夠有這麼多的人潮，剛剛有特別提到「大美不言」，也幫你們宣傳一下，這個是我看過非常喜歡的，包含這個梵克雅寶的一些，算是絕世精品，會一直展到12月29號，對不對？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，之後會移到故宮南院，所以也會帶領一番熱潮到故宮南院，如果北部沒有看的話，我在這邊呼籲……"],["郭委員昱晴：期待。"],["蕭院長宗煌：現在不用急著去擠那個會場，到南部南院去看也滿好的。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，我接下來想要問的就是我們的新故宮計畫，北部的院區我們有擴建的一個進度，當然，我們知道北院擴建的部分，其實10月底執行率也高達84.12%，目前我比較想要知道的就是，在至善路的入口那個無障礙通道興建的工程，目前這個工程進行的狀況如何，然後它的期程大概是多久？"],["蕭院長宗煌：基本上來講，臺北市政府的都發已經審議通過，現在在進行細部設計，就是那個計畫的公開閱覽。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，你們的期程大概什麼時候可以開工，或者什麼時候可以竣工？這個有預計的行程嗎？因為這個對於來參觀的一些人潮其實是非常重要的一環。"],["蕭院長宗煌：我們現在程序上是明年開工，然後116年完工。"],["郭委員昱晴：116年完工，好，接下來剛剛有特別提到，明年是故宮的百歲院慶，我們從過去到現在，先來看一下，在108年跟113年1月到10月，你們北院跟南院參觀的人次跟比例，我們可以看到，今年到10月底，你們的購票參觀人次在總參觀人次的占比合計大概是56.89%，這個部分我們當然希望明年又剛好是「故宮100+」，雖然現在疫情已經結束，但是參觀的人次、觀眾減少，還是沒有回到疫情前的水準，我想如果要再吸引更多遊客，無論是院慶活動的吸引力或是要拓展更多的客群、更多的民眾能夠前往故宮，這個部分是不是有一些比較具體的計畫？"],["蕭院長宗煌：故宮北院正在緩步回升，事實上，今年大概可以達到180萬人次，但200萬人次達不到，故宮南院則可以超越去年的95萬人次，這是可以達到的，雖然並不理想，但事實上是有一點點的進展。我希望南北院明年能夠達到350萬人次為目標，對北院而言，350萬人次是比較有挑戰，但是對南院而言，明年超過100萬人次是絕對沒有問題，因為明年我們會把一些重要的文物放在南院展覽。另外，我們也會與旅行業者、旅館業者合作套票，讓遊客可以去看南院的大展……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["蕭院長宗煌：明年初「大美不言」過去之後，也會掀起一波春節的觀賞熱潮，我想明年其實反而是南院比較……"],["郭委員昱晴：重點會放在南院，是不是？"],["蕭院長宗煌：南北院，北院也有很精彩的展覽。"],["郭委員昱晴：都有，但是剛剛你說北院可能會比較有點挑戰，原因是什麼？是因為展出的活動或是展出的內容？"],["蕭院長宗煌：也不是，因為原本我預估今年北院的國外觀眾大概會有172萬、173萬左右的人次，但現在就少了差不多50萬人次，只有一百二十幾萬人次，少了差不多50萬人次。"],["郭委員昱晴：沒關係，之後有更詳細的計畫，麻煩再提供給我們。"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：接下來要問的是關於我們的國際能見度，在文化上無論是與他國的文化合作或配合，國際的合作其實也非常非常的重要，至於我們看到的這些數據，從108年到113年，在締結姊妹館的部分，只有在111年的時候增加了一館。另外是簽訂MOU的部分，只有在110年的時候增加了一個單位、一個機構。在我們與國際進行跨國合作的部分，是否碰到了什麼樣的瓶頸嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：這個部分在疫情期間，實際上之前的簽約就是有點延續，但是……"],["郭委員昱晴：有延續，但是停滯了？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，停滯了。這兩年我們就開始把那個線再拉回來，像上個月我們就與蒙古簽約，基本上，蒙古博物館的館長也是親自過來，因此，慢慢、慢慢的，我們會加溫……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["蕭院長宗煌：另外向委員報告，明年故宮會到捷克展覽以及到法國展覽，事實上，故宮的文物出國展覽會引起國際效益，而這個國際效益基本上就會增加國際的宣傳，而且我們也在談其他地方的展覽。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，因為時間的關係，我們直接進到下一題，關於故宮特別開放的資料深度運用計畫，它是一個五年的計畫，從110年到114年，當然我們也知道總預算當中其實也包含線上學校平台功能的設置，可能就是以一些數位科技來進行AI教學的運用，當然也特別要響應教育部108新課綱，以素養導向為主軸，強化故宮文物與現場教學環境的結合。但我想要問的是113年故宮開設所謂的教育頻道，其實與前幾年開放平台學習的人數落差很大，從24萬、34萬一直到113年只剩下9萬7,000，這個數據的落差為什麼會差別這麼多？"],["蕭院長宗煌：二個因素，一個因素當然是因為疫情期間沒辦法、不方便實體參訪，所以網路平台的使用率會比較高。在疫情結束之後，有開放的話，大家就會想再找時間去看就可以了。另外一個因素就是統計的方法，我們採用新的統計方法，它呈現出來的數據就不一樣，因為我們會真正去評量他在網路停留的時間，而不是點了一次就算一次，所以它的統計方式是有改變的。"],["郭委員昱晴：所以你們在113年統計的指標有一些改變，是這個意思嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：是。"],["郭委員昱晴：是這個意思，所以人數才會落差這麼多？"],["蕭院長宗煌：對，因為那個落差實際上是差太多了。"],["郭委員昱晴：好。最後一個問題，故宮的教育頻道、線上學校，也就是「聽我說文物」這個部分，雖然我們設置了英文版、增加了國際化，但是聽說到目前為止已經2年沒有更新了，這個是有其他的規劃嗎？為什麼這個部分2年沒更新，可以簡短回答嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：我再了解一下，事實上是休眠了，或是有其他的狀況發生。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，關於內容沒有更新的部分，到時候再給我們辦公室……"],["蕭院長宗煌：同仁說之前是一個專案，專案結束之後就是……"],["郭委員昱晴：就不會再更新，也沒有其他新的規劃，是這個意思嗎？"],["蕭院長宗煌：關於這一塊，我再了解一下，看要怎麼處理。"],["郭委員昱晴：好，再麻煩提供資料給我們辦公室，謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員。","接下來請張雅琳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-22-11","speakers":["萬美玲","洪孟楷","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳培瑜","林倩綺","陳秀寳","葉元之","羅廷瑋","林宜瑾","吳春城","郭昱晴","張雅琳","吳沛憶","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311001_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案；二、審查114年度中央政府\n總預算案有關國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案；三、處理或審查 113\n年度中央政府總預算有關國立故宮博物院主管預算（公務預算）解凍案3案（第一案及第二案僅\n進行詢答）","agenda_id":"11311001_00004"}}},{"id":"157783","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157783","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01ebf86bd820836019e206392a6dff152ad4098cec3b17fd94948cb68dbf16ab94885ffc673e66ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:07:15 - 11:17:43","影片長度":"00:10:28","會議時間":"2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分。\n【僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月10日中午12時截止收件】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-12-04","start_time":"2024-12-04T11:07:15+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-04T11:17:43+08:00","duration":628,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":2,"sessionTimes":17,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-2-36-17"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.3890937500000002,"end":7.422218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.48971875,"end":8.434718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.03784375,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.071593750000002,"end":10.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.73346875,"end":20.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.34909375,"end":16.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.47534375,"end":19.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.56784375,"end":20.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.58471875,"end":20.719718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.719718750000002,"end":25.039718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.78721875,"end":21.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.039718750000002,"end":27.419093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.97596875,"end":28.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.579093750000002,"end":59.414093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":59.61659375000001,"end":70.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.20971875000001,"end":71.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.22659375,"end":78.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.02721875,"end":78.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.28034375,"end":78.33096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.36471875000001,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.77784375,"end":92.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.86971875,"end":87.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.12284375,"end":87.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.97846875,"end":95.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.64471875000001,"end":101.11221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.26409375,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.00159375000001,"end":126.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.88034375000001,"end":126.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.55534375,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.02784375000002,"end":154.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.18284375000002,"end":135.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.87034375000002,"end":137.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.94909375,"end":146.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.97721875000002,"end":162.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":163.07721875000001,"end":174.33284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.63659375,"end":181.53846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":182.46659375000002,"end":191.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.18659375000001,"end":197.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.21096875,"end":200.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.43409375000002,"end":204.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.43784375,"end":218.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":219.20346875,"end":221.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.05534375000002,"end":222.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.71346875,"end":224.51909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":225.21096875,"end":226.24034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.61159375000003,"end":250.69221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.50221875000003,"end":268.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.59909375,"end":252.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.66409375,"end":270.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.41471875,"end":288.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.50909375000003,"end":290.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.90534375000004,"end":312.84284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.11284375,"end":314.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.69909375000003,"end":316.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":317.21346875,"end":317.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.24721875,"end":318.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":318.61409375,"end":322.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":322.96784375000004,"end":323.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.38534375,"end":328.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":329.31284375,"end":333.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.12284375,"end":330.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.24096875000004,"end":330.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.54471875,"end":330.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":334.30784375,"end":339.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.72471875,"end":343.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.87596875,"end":350.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.71034375000005,"end":352.07721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.44846875,"end":353.37659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":355.26659375,"end":365.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.03721875,"end":368.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.61471875,"end":383.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":384.86534375,"end":418.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.86846875000003,"end":449.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.45034375,"end":421.72034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.85534375000003,"end":449.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.34471875,"end":454.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.74471875,"end":458.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.76096875,"end":465.91596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":465.91596875000005,"end":465.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.62471875000006,"end":466.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":466.64159375,"end":475.93971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.97846875000005,"end":472.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.31971875000005,"end":475.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.93971875000005,"end":475.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.95659375,"end":475.97346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.97346875000005,"end":475.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":475.99034375,"end":476.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.02409375,"end":476.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.12534375,"end":476.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.41221875,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.85096875000005,"end":477.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.67346875000004,"end":480.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":481.05284375,"end":492.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.21971875,"end":500.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.27034375000005,"end":493.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.32096875,"end":495.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":501.82596875,"end":503.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.13784375000006,"end":506.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":507.49596875000003,"end":511.30971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":511.81596875,"end":547.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.9622187500001,"end":560.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":559.09971875,"end":559.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":559.70721875,"end":560.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.36534375,"end":560.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.41596875,"end":560.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.66909375,"end":560.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.70284375,"end":562.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":562.5759687500001,"end":564.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.49971875,"end":564.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.75284375,"end":564.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.8203437500001,"end":565.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.88346875,"end":565.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.29659375,"end":569.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.08534375,"end":571.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.9753437500001,"end":573.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":574.32096875,"end":579.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.22721875,"end":600.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":602.55284375,"end":606.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.17221875,"end":609.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.35784375,"end":622.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":623.1909687500001,"end":623.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":624.1697187500001,"end":624.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.60409375,"end":627.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.9665937500001,"end":628.0847187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.756,"end":27.178,"text":"主席謝謝,麻煩我們請張副秘書長麻煩張副秘秘書長他血氧的問題他現在回辦公室休息他昨天好像也是在住院嘛這幾天身體狀況不好我都有跟他保持聯繫OK好了解謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":29.782,"end":42.019,"text":"張副秘書長我想請教剛剛延續這個楊委員的發言所以我們在上一個會期有看到是說立院之前的簽紙計畫還有在進行甚至有媒體報導講說韓院長屬於是北部為主"},{"start":45.343,"end":69.643,"text":"從過去到現在一直有討論這所謂的立院簽紙的一個計畫包括說上一屆的時候由錫堃院長是有最後選定6個地點那如果說以北部來講的話比較有可能就是空總土城看守所跟中正紀念堂那到目前為止好像又沒有任何的一個進度或進展那明年的一個相關的計畫也沒有這樣的一個安排我可不可以請教一下目前還有沒有在做這樣的討論"},{"start":71.263,"end":77.028,"text":"委員好,今年應委員會的要求,我們總務處已經簽報相關的計畫上來那等草野協商後呢,那我們就會繼續辦理後面的相關的程序但你簽報的計畫是到哪邊?委員有收到嗎?"},{"start":95.845,"end":102.374,"text":"因為我看到你們明年的年度計劃也沒有任何的針對這個部分有要討論的方向啊,連可行性評估連計劃的這個預算都沒有。"},{"start":107.113,"end":126.724,"text":"那我實在很難講,如果說現在已經沒有討論你就可以直接講沒有討論那不然的話你會讓我們覺得是說因為國人也是想要了解這一塊因為畢竟對於整個中華民國國會來講有人也認為我們的歷史脈絡來說現在的立法院院區可能是不服使用嘛"},{"start":128.385,"end":153.816,"text":"來簡單說明一下向委員報告我們有提報像成立的機制然後還有過去選址的情況是提報草野協商所以目前是在等待草野協商的結果那至於協商後我們有在今年113年度有編列709萬的先期規劃的費用那剛剛的詢問之下我們也會辦理保留那保留到明年等到草野協商的結果之後我們會先進行先期規劃的一個辦理"},{"start":155.017,"end":161.22,"text":"所以說還是後續等待院長召開政黨團之間的朝野協商是不是?"},{"start":161.22,"end":181.069,"text":"是另外一個部分我們在討論這個職場安全職場霸凌的案件裡面其實本席也關注到我要幫我們所有優秀的立院議事人員抱屈跟抱不平因為在今年這一屆裡面特別不同是我們的議事人員被攻擊的狀況是有所聞"},{"start":182.54,"end":198.975,"text":"我們的這個執政黨的委員他可以說對於準備資料的議事人員叫罵甚至搶奪立院助衛警的帽子來襲警那之前也有執政黨的委員他去搶秘書長的手中資料有搶議事人員的麥克風還有"},{"start":201.477,"end":224.206,"text":"早上4點去開門的那第一次開門的時候我們請院長說院長你要瞭解這樣的狀況不能說立法委員帶頭執法犯法結果第二次開門他直接不演了講說我沒有破壞門鎖是門鎖太好被開了所以我就進來了那這一些過程裡面"},{"start":225.27,"end":250.385,"text":"立法委員對於議事人員以前都說立法委員大家互相攻防沒有問題嘛大家都悲觀悲大嘛你要跟我攻防我跟你攻防但是都屬於立委跟立委之間可是在這一屆是立委直接去打或是去挑戰去攻擊議事人員那到目前為止我們立法院這邊有為議事人員站出來有任何的案件幫議事人員討回公道嗎"},{"start":251.67,"end":251.91,"text":"好,來,重點來了"},{"start":271.725,"end":289.33,"text":"議事人員他敢 比較抱歉 我覺得我們議事人員都很優秀但是議事人員面對到立法委員的一個攻擊甚至之前我就講 有助衛警很可憐 在門口被搶帽子然後被打 然後被叫囂"},{"start":291.19,"end":312.127,"text":"結果那助衛警他敢去提出申訴針對立法委員嗎那到最後不就變成是他又要被針對性他又要被針對性那到最後不了了之所以今天雖然說有法令的規定但是如果說我們的議事處我們的立法院不能站出來幫這些議事人員主持公道的話你還要請他自己去申訴"},{"start":313.308,"end":341.222,"text":"你不就是請鬼找要單嗎?副秘書長你可以同意如果說今天議事人員是你的兄弟姐妹你可以同意他們在上班的時候遭受這樣子的攻擊嗎?當然是不行啦是那我們怎麼樣幫他們來主持公道我剛講這一些有議事人員被攻擊手上資料秘書長被搶資料那我們有沒有提出任何的"},{"start":341.946,"end":342.887,"text":"議事人員的公平正義呢?"},{"start":355.487,"end":383.615,"text":"基本上這個國會的場域裡頭我們是充分尊重我們國會自律還有委員的程序權那至於說 副秘書長不不不請容許我指證你國會的場域是委員跟委員之間委員跟委員之間你說議事工房我今天我進廚房不怕熱我進議事工房裡面我覺得說立法委員跟立法委員之間我們要怎麼議事工房合理的範圍內我們互相"},{"start":385.492,"end":402.623,"text":"這個摩高一尺道高一丈但是議事人員不能被波及啊我今天講是說過去十幾屆來我們這第11屆嘛過去十屆來也有相關衝突但是衝突都僅限於委員跟委員之間那個是議事攻防可是今天是我們看到說當有"},{"start":403.403,"end":417.871,"text":"執政黨的委員他認為說他人數不夠然後打不贏的時候他去挑意識人員下手把意識人員手上的資料給搶走把意識人員的這個資料給拿走甚至就破壞門窗那這樣怎麼會算是意識攻防勒"},{"start":420.544,"end":435.844,"text":"我補充報告一下當委員所關心的部分其實我們都有在做也希望能夠幫我們的議事人員還有我們所有的同仁立法院的所有的員工都維護到他的一個職場最好的工作環境"},{"start":436.465,"end":465.503,"text":"所以比如說我們也去研議了會議室的一個使用規則我們也去研議了相關的這個內規我們正在調整正在修改我問一個比較明確的啦我們現在這每一個委員會的門啊有執政黨委員直接就講啊太好破壞了他不用技巧不用工具他只要簡單的這樣轉一轉扭一扭他就可以他說他沒有破壞殼就打開了"},{"start":466.67,"end":471.633,"text":"這是內部鎖起來但是是不是有一個門沒有辦法內部鎖起來一定就只有喇叭鎖那喇叭鎖是不是容易就變成是說有任何人他只要拿簡單的工具就可以進來"},{"start":493.414,"end":496.777,"text":"那這個要不要加強我們從上一次有這個所謂的開鎖盜賊"},{"start":502.08,"end":527.49,"text":"臨晨4點來開鎖然後還洋洋得意那這一次也是兩個禮拜前嘛內政委員會啊也是一樣啊本席相對來講都是早一點來啊我6點多我就到交友文化委員會我搜索委員會去簽到我那時候6點多一到的時候我看到內政委員會201裡面已經都是人啊開門啊那不是議事連員幫忙開的嘛那就是我們執政黨委員去開鎖嘛"},{"start":528.749,"end":555.797,"text":"那我的意思是說今天不管任何人你開鎖就是破壞議事規則那他還會告誡你他還會怪罪你說啊是因為你們立法院的門窗很好被打開所以我開鎖不是我的問題啊所以我現在強調的是說今天任何人可以這樣輕易的開鎖我們是不是應該要加強我們的立法院的這個門鎖是我們已經有加強了就像剛剛委員所說的我們另外有留一個門那個門不是只有喇叭鎖我們另外安裝了另外一個鎖所以那邊是兩道鎖"},{"start":557.498,"end":578.856,"text":"那目前那個會議室 委員會的會議室不會被再破壞了應該不會啦不會被 有沒有做過壓力測試目前沒有啦不是 副秘書長 雖然輕鬆啊但是我輕鬆不放鬆啊我要的是什麼 要的是 立法院 你們是行政人員"},{"start":580.27,"end":606.848,"text":"多數少數一回事立委跟立委之間是民意的展現但重點是我們要維持整個立法院議場的正常運作正常運作就請從尊重保護捍衛議事人員的權益以及捍衛我們的開會場域開始做起如果說未來還有這樣的狀況的話很抱歉喔預算不給通過就是預算不合理的地方我們一樣會把它刪除喔"},{"start":608.42,"end":609.3,"text":"我們一直朝這個方向在努力 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":805,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時7分）主席謝謝，麻煩請張副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩張副秘。"],["洪委員孟楷：主席，我是不是可以先會議詢問？秘書長今天是請假嗎？"],["主席：秘書長因為血氧的問題，他現在回辦公室休息，他昨天好像也是住院，他這幾天身體狀況不好，我都有跟他保持聯繫。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，OK，了解，謝謝主席。","張副秘書長，我想請教，延續剛剛楊委員的發言，我們在上一個會期有看到立院之前的遷址計畫還有在進行，甚至有媒體報導說韓院長屬意是以北部為主，從過去到現在一直有討論所謂的立院遷址計畫，包括上一屆游錫堃院長最後有選定6個地點。如果以北部來講的話，比較有可能的就是空總、土城看守所跟中正紀念堂，到目前為止好像又沒有任何的進度或進展，明年的相關計畫也沒有這樣的安排，我可不可以請教一下，目前還有沒有在做這樣的討論？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們持續都有就這個部分在關心，那個部分是不是請總務處來做一個比較完整的報告？"],["洪委員孟楷：來，請說明一下。"],["廖處長烱志：委員好，今年應委員會的要求，我們總務處已經簽報相關的計畫上來，等朝野協商後，我們就繼續辦理後面的相關程序。"],["洪委員孟楷：你簽報的計畫是到哪邊？委員有收到嗎？因為我看到你們明年的年度計畫也沒有任何針對這個部分的討論方向……"],["廖處長烱志：因為程序上……"],["洪委員孟楷：連可行性評估、計畫的預算都沒有，我實在很難講……如果現在已經沒有討論，你就可以直接講沒有討論，不然的話，你會讓我們覺得……因為國人也是想要了解這一塊，畢竟對於整個中華民國國會來講，有人也認為我們的歷史脈絡，現在的立法院院區可能不敷使用。來，簡單說明一下。"],["廖處長烱志：向委員報告，我們有提報成立的機制，還有過去選址的情況，是提報朝野協商，所以目前在等待朝野協商的結果，至於協商後，我們有在今年113年度編列709萬的先期規劃費用，在剛剛的詢問之下，我們也會辦理保留，保留到明年，等到朝野協商的結果之後，我們會先進行先期規劃的辦理。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以還是後續等待院長召開政黨團之間的朝野協商，是不是？"],["廖處長烱志：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，OK。另外一個部分，我們在討論職場安全、職場霸凌的案件裡面，其實本席也關注到，我要幫我們所有優秀的立院議事人員抱屈跟抱不平，因為今年這一屆特別不同的是，我們的議事人員被攻擊的狀況時有所聞，我們的執政黨的委員可以對準備資料的議事人員叫罵，甚至搶奪立院駐衛警的帽子來襲警，之前也有執政黨委員去搶秘書長手中的資料，搶議事人員的麥克風，還有早上4點去開門的，第一次開門的時候，我們請院長要去了解這樣的狀況，不能立法委員帶頭知法犯法，結果第二次開門，他直接不演了，說他沒有破壞門鎖，是門鎖太容易被開了，所以他就進來了。這一些過程裡面，立法委員對於議事人員，以前都說立法委員大家互相攻防，那沒有問題，大家都一樣，你要跟我攻防，我要跟你攻防，但是都屬於立委跟立委之間，可是這一屆是立委直接去打、去挑戰、去攻擊議事人員，到目前為止，我們立法院這邊有為議事人員站出來，有就任何的案件來幫議事人員討回公道嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員關心，其實這個部分姑且不論其他法律的規定，我們就是依照我們立法院員工職場霸凌防治與申訴處理作業要點的內容，我們的申訴案件，必須是他有提出申請，我們受理以後來做……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，重點來了，議事人員他敢……我覺得我們議事人員都很優秀，但是議事人員面對到立法委員的攻擊，甚至之前我就講了，有駐衛警很可憐，在門口被搶帽子、被打，然後被叫囂，結果駐衛警他敢針對立法委員提出申訴嗎？到最後不就變成是他又要被針對性、他又要被點名做記號，到最後不了了之？所以今天雖然是有法令的規定，但是如果我們的議事處、我們的立法院不能站出來幫這些議事人員主持公道的話，你還要請他自己去申訴，你不就是請鬼找藥單嗎？副秘書長，如果今天議事人員是你的兄弟姐妹，你可以同意他們在上班的時候遭受這樣一個攻擊嗎？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：當然是不行。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，那我們怎麼樣幫他們主持公道？我剛剛講的這一些，有議事人員被攻擊、秘書長手上資料被搶，那我們有沒有提出任何法律的賠償要求？除了立法委員、黨團跟黨團之間，我們要求送紀律委員會，我們要求做譴責案以外，那議事人員的公平正義呢？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：基本上，在國會的場域裡頭，我們是充分尊重我們國會自律還有委員的程序權，至於說……"],["洪委員孟楷：副秘書長，請容許我指正你，國會的場域是委員跟委員之間，這是議事攻防，我今天進廚房不怕熱，在進到議事攻防裡面，立法委員跟立法委員之間，我們要怎麼議事攻防，在合理的範圍內，我們互相的魔高一尺、道高一丈，但是議事人員不能被波及啊！我今天要講的是，我們這次是第11屆，過去10屆以來也有相關的衝突，但是衝突都僅限於委員跟委員之間，那個是議事攻防，可是今天我們看到的是，執政黨的委員認為他人數不夠，在打不贏的時候，他去挑議事人員下手，把議事人員手上的資料給搶走，把議事人員的資料給拿走，甚至破壞門窗，這樣怎麼會算是議事攻防呢？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是啊！我補充報告一下，剛剛委員所關心的部分，其實我們都有在做，也希望能夠幫我們的議事人員還有我們所有的同仁、立法院所有的員工，都維護一個最好的職場工作環境，譬如說，我們也去研議了會議室的使用規則；我們也去研議了相關的內規，所以我們正在調整、正在修改。"],["洪委員孟楷：我問一個比較明確的，現在每一個委員會的門，有執政黨委員直接講，這太好破壞了，不用技巧、不用工具，只要簡單的轉一轉、扭一扭，沒有破壞就可以打開了，所以要不要換？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：這個部分我們已經做好了，委員可以看一下旁邊這個門，我們已經做了門栓……"],["洪委員孟楷：這個是喇叭鎖……"],["張副秘書長裕榮：旁邊上下有那個門栓……"],["洪委員孟楷：我跟你講A，你在答B，這個是內部鎖起來，但是是不是有一個門沒有辦法內部鎖起來，一定就只有喇叭鎖，那喇叭鎖是不是很容易的，任何人只要拿簡單的工具就可以進來？這個要不要加強？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：有，那個……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們從上一次有所謂的開鎖盜賊凌晨4點來開鎖，然後還洋洋得意，這一次、兩個禮拜前，內政委員會也是一樣，本席相對來講都是早一點來，我六點多就到教育及文化委員會，即到我所屬的委員會去簽到，那時候六點多一到的時候，我看到內政委員會201會議室裡面已經都是人了、都開門了，那不是議事人員幫忙開的，那就是我們執政黨委員去開鎖的嘛！我的意思是，今天不管任何人，你開鎖就是破壞議事規則，他還會挖苦你說、他還會怪罪你說，是因為你們立法院的門窗很好被打開，所以他開鎖不是他的問題，所以我現在強調的是，今天任何人可以這樣輕易地開鎖，我們是不是應該要加強我們立法院的門鎖？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：是，我們已經有加強，就像剛剛委員所說的，我們另外有留一個門，那個門不是只有喇叭鎖，我們還安裝了另外一個鎖，所以那邊是兩道鎖，目前那個委員會的會議室……"],["洪委員孟楷：不會再被破壞了？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：應該不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有做過壓力測試？"],["張副秘書長裕榮：目前沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，副秘書長，雖然輕鬆，是我輕鬆不放鬆，我要的是什麼？在立法院你們是行政人員，但多數、少數是一回事，立委跟立委之間是民意的展現，但重點是我們要維持整個立法院議場的正常運作，正常運作就請從尊重、保護、捍衛議事人員的權益，以及捍衛我們開會場域開始做起，如果未來還有這樣的狀況的話，很抱歉，預算不合理的地方，我們一樣會把它刪除。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：謝謝委員，我們會朝這個方向來做。"],["洪委員孟楷：我絕對不會盲目的認為你們提出來的預算我們都要無條件的通過，該刪除的我們還是會刪除，重點在於要維護我們正常的開會環境以及保護議事人員的安全為主，謝謝。"],["張副秘書長裕榮：我們一直朝這個方向在努力，謝謝。"],["主席：副秘，北檢之前曾經發生過一件事情，就是有民眾跑進去並跑到頂樓把他們的國旗換成民進黨黨旗，是有這件事情，你們可以去參考一下，就是後來他被起訴所適用的條文，我的意思是說，因為立委不是這個機關的所有權人，也不是這個機關場所的管理權人，立委是借用這個場域在開會的人，如果夜間跑進來，說這個沒有違法，還說他根本沒有違法，他是立委，這個在法律上我是完全不認同的，所以你們可以去參考我說的那個案子，其實客觀事實的構成要件是一模一樣，我以前在處理案子的時候如果遇到這個狀況，我不是說立法院，我是說如果有機關夜間被民眾開門爬進去、翻牆爬進去，其實這在法律上會構成犯罪了。如果今天以相同的事實，立法委員只是借用這個場域來開會，他不是對這個場域有管理的權限，那可以我自己晚上開門進來，這樣子合法嗎？如果公務員知悉有犯罪而不主動提出告發，這樣對嗎？所以我對這個事情還是滿有意見的，我不是要去追究哪一位立委或過去的事情，我只是說，如果是這樣，是不是把這個東西在法律上的依據為何，我們大家講清楚，從我們講清楚那天開始大家都不要犯這個事情就好，我不是請你們去追究過去某一位立委或是某幾位立委他們的行為，如果這個國家的政治人物都不遵守法律，那你要人民遵守法律，人民也會覺得不服啊！我只是依法論法，我沒有說到特定人，好，再麻煩你研究一下，謝謝。","下一位我們請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","羅廷瑋委員、羅廷瑋委員、羅廷瑋委員不在。","接下來請葉元之委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-2-36-17","speakers":["吳宗憲","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","林思銘","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","葉元之","吳思瑤","謝龍介"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2024-12-04"],"gazette_id":"11311101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["11311101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於立法院主管收支部分【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"11311101_00002"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}