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案"},{"start":2136.141,"end":2137.081,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商．事由：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":2152.563,"end":2154.505,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":2172.36,"end":2186.186,"text":"從來沒有一次我的站主席台然後我來齁我是要把議事加速進行讓反對的聲音沒辦法進來然後我把程序加速幾分金如我鬼三分金話話說阿輝沒有這樣的嘛所以既然有這麼大的瑕疵在這邊那主席如果你也同意既然你們已經在程序加嚴這一關在上禮拜五你們完成三讀了"},{"start":2199.397,"end":2203.78,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":2227.008,"end":2239.083,"text":"民進黨我們在立法院多數的時候國民黨也是有站主席台啊但是站主席台的用意就我剛才講的嘛就是讓程序慢一點盡量讓程序再慢一點讓他討論再完整一點沒人站主席台真的要開車啦"},{"start":2246.608,"end":2268.835,"text":"主席我具體建議啦我具體建議看主席能不能認為你能不能接納既然12月16有這麼多的瑕疵我們有沒有考慮反正今天沒有三個政黨在今天這個協商看起來是沒有辦法做有效的協商主席你有沒有辦法考慮我們這案我們退回程序委員會"},{"start":2270.659,"end":2288.661,"text":"內政委員會報告審查委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案案件 條文絕對不是只有說這個當選票數罷免票大於當選票這樣一個條文而已他還有很多其他的選罷法的一些條文而且這些條文都影響到我們的選舉權"},{"start":2289.963,"end":2291.044,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":2316.131,"end":2329.668,"text":"請各位委員要注意,我們排法案是每個委員提案的權利,主席只是安排法案以及按照議事規則來主持。"},{"start":2331.93,"end":2351.378,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":2355.373,"end":2372.298,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等17人擬具"},{"start":2381.54,"end":2382.081,"text":"蘇清泉等23人擬具"},{"start":2399.896,"end":2401.297,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":2424.99,"end":2429.213,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十七條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":2445.683,"end":2453.409,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第"},{"start":2475.285,"end":2478.227,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十七條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":2502.597,"end":2531.335,"text":"上一棟其實就是因為要針對這麼重要的案子大家來做討論結果你上一棟三分鐘你就跳過了然後就回到這一棟那我相信這一棟大概也是過水等一下又跳到這一個這個院長的協商然後你們最終的目的就是這個上個禮拜我買了一個保險還不夠這個身份證聯署這個聯署要付身份證銀本那還不夠還不行要買雙保險再買一個保險就是報名要多一票"},{"start":2532.276,"end":2536.639,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具〈公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案〉案"},{"start":2550.862,"end":2566.26,"text":"擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案件,並且擬具:「公職人員選舉罷"},{"start":2569.637,"end":2584.491,"text":"不同的法案每個委員有不同的意見我們都予以尊重大家可以暢所欲言許以珍委員可能優先然後接著張宏立委員接著再鄭天才委員謝謝主席"},{"start":2585.291,"end":2586.912,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商"},{"start":2607.617,"end":2609.777,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":2632.902,"end":2636.248,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員蘇清泉等17人擬具"},{"start":2647.571,"end":2649.633,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":2664.446,"end":2678.801,"text":"自於為什麼要提兩個不同的話,上個禮拜通過的這個是連署的條件的部分,因為我們都發覺很多連署都是造假、抄名冊還有死亡的連署,所以呢我們為什麼說要身份證影本,那是因為連署條件的問題。"},{"start":2680.603,"end":2681.343,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":2697.01,"end":2711.544,"text":"當時我想在上個會期賴瑞榮郭國文兩位委員也都有提出相同的法案覺得不能讓少數的民意被這個多數的民意被少數否決所以這是兩個不同的這個案子不是什麼雙保險因為他是不同的概念一個是聯署的問題一個是罷免門檻能不能過的問題"},{"start":2715.788,"end":2732.163,"text":"基本上我想這個是我提案的這兩個不同時間提出的這個案子其實比較早提出是在上個會期一開始的時候就提出可是因為民進黨一直已經罷免主席台完全不讓我們討論所以一直拖到現在那當然我想徐欣穎、趙偉再度排案讓我們來討論那上個會期呢我想已經是那樣的一個狀況必須要還原一個真實的狀況"},{"start":2740.851,"end":2743.673,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":2757.145,"end":2759.327,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等23人擬具"},{"start":2778.707,"end":2779.328,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":2798.331,"end":2799.531,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":2816.275,"end":2816.955,"text":"蘇清泉等23人擬具"},{"start":2829.195,"end":2840.959,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條條文修正草案：一、本院內政"},{"start":2854.184,"end":2868.249,"text":"但我們確實是被擋到我內政委員會的我我們不能進來在這個裡面其實全國也都知道是什麼原因但我們的意識我們那邊你不能讓我們變成我們沒有開會啊"},{"start":2869.983,"end":2880.285,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條"},{"start":2897.549,"end":2913.296,"text":"身為內政委員會的召委如果我遇到這樣我會想辦法把這個寫清楚因為我們內政委員會不管怎麼樣是確實是要進來開會沒有辦法開會那連上面的議事錄都寫我們都沒有來開會"},{"start":2915.097,"end":2937.826,"text":"這個對我們大家都知道我們身為立法委員我來了然後被寫成說我沒有來開會這是對我們非常大的不公平不管那一天會有沒有開成我們以前不管怎麼樣至少會讓人家簽到你簽完到再把他拖出去也是一件事情但不能說連簽到的機會都沒有我覺得這一點"},{"start":2938.871,"end":2940.932,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":2963.171,"end":2966.453,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十七條及第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商．事由：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員楊曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":2987.438,"end":2996.608,"text":"招委就是沒有辦法到他的位置因為都被霸佔了這個主席台而才會有現在的大家剛所講的"},{"start":2997.697,"end":3006.404,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商．事由：一、本院內政委員副總裁翰勳等17人擬具〈公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案〉案"},{"start":3027.632,"end":3028.273,"text":"蘇清泉等23人擬具"},{"start":3041.397,"end":3054.488,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等一、本院內政"},{"start":3070.503,"end":3072.105,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":3079.778,"end":3083.859,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":3105.265,"end":3114.748,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員楊曜等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．第六十九條條文修正草案．第六十九條條文修正草案．"},{"start":3130.677,"end":3135.081,"text":"王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員王美惠委員"},{"start":3150.655,"end":3152.817,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 案"},{"start":3173.621,"end":3175.422,"text":"擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":3194.059,"end":3197.163,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":3206.377,"end":3207.658,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3229.855,"end":3231.496,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 。"},{"start":3256.188,"end":3261.35,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案。好那本席也簡單單回應這個確實我第八屆當立委第十一屆進來我發現很多很奇怪的事我一直在適應所以呢我也覺得很奇怪為什麼我當召委可以"},{"start":3284.036,"end":3295.784,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":3313.096,"end":3316.741,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":3325.916,"end":3342.943,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條條文修正草"},{"start":3354.727,"end":3358.791,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商"},{"start":3370.743,"end":3372.844,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":3400.922,"end":3406.607,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商"},{"start":3424.301,"end":3426.742,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":3442.367,"end":3448.231,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":3462.6,"end":3467.941,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷"},{"start":3492.208,"end":3493.83,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":3515.831,"end":3521.053,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商"},{"start":3534.184,"end":3559.972,"text":"所以我主張那一天的會議完全是非法而且無效的會議是不是在這邊請求大家我們不要讓這種破天荒的惡例變成是立法院的常態此例一開未來不得了每個人就是自己躲在角落說我們開會說了算如果每個召委都可以躲在角落說好我們自己一群人大家手拉手大家舉手說會議通過"},{"start":3561.232,"end":3563.703,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3566.485,"end":3592.023,"text":"然後剛剛其實鄭天才委員提到的那個例子一例一休後來就退回重審啦後來就回到委員會啦因為大家就是希望說要各退一步不要讓立法院變成這種有惡力的狀況出現嘛所以是不是大家我們回到委員會把今天這個協商今天協商開了也沒有意義了啦你們在這邊過水急著要過其實當家不要這樣子鬧事吧你們是多數欸"},{"start":3593.024,"end":3597.225,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3612.546,"end":3639.312,"text":"做一個有格局願意來照顧所有立法院夥伴的召委嗎?把程序完備吧?把程序完備吧?是不是就退回委員會?重新好好審議?至少讓大家理解說現在到底在審什麼啊?像今天不只是審徐宇貞委員提的這個當選門檻加一,裡面有多少人的版本啊?還有包括我們陳冠廷委員的版本當天也都沒有被處理、沒有被討論,他甚至沒有辦法來提案說明耶!"},{"start":3641.673,"end":3658.846,"text":"好歹讓我們提案的委員來說明一下吧。翁曉玲還提了一個選前三天,十天改三天,欸這個受害者最深的是宋楚瑜耶。朝委宋楚瑜主席當時到現在的他還是無法釋懷,直到這一次的大選,"},{"start":3659.406,"end":3660.607,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3690.006,"end":3693.609,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":3713.883,"end":3715.744,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3731.348,"end":3748.013,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員國外的境外勢力要透過破壞選舉的制度來干預我們的選舉,那我們是不是應該更謹慎來討論每一次選舉的變革呢?在座大家都應該很珍視我們台灣民主的選舉制度才對。"},{"start":3749.253,"end":3752.534,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":3771.32,"end":3772.741,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":3801.78,"end":3802.52,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":3824.426,"end":3850.702,"text":"選舉法在第一會期本屆的第一會期排兩次都沒辦法開會那這個會期排的第一次排案也是沒辦法開會所以這個到底是誰造成的我想你們也應該去面對這個問題然後再來就是裡面每一個議案因為這個真的要導正視聽啦大家必須要知道說在怎麼樣"},{"start":3853.184,"end":3871.796,"text":"擬事的杯葛也不能限制立委的人身自由來強硬的通過。」接下來第二點就是說我們每一個委員他提的法案我們都尊重所以每個人都可以充分表達"},{"start":3872.517,"end":3882.399,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":3904.05,"end":3904.89,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":3924.964,"end":3928.546,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案 案"},{"start":3954.083,"end":3956.904,"text":"民進黨最大民進黨講什麼都對別人講都不行"},{"start":3972.448,"end":3975.652,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":3989.403,"end":3991.244,"text":"楊曉玲等16人擬具楊曉玲等16人擬具楊曉玲等16人擬具"},{"start":4014.94,"end":4018.282,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4039.141,"end":4042.724,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4047.478,"end":4057.72,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員翁曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":4074.804,"end":4076.145,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商．立法院內政委員"},{"start":4092.756,"end":4097.118,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4115.325,"end":4124.172,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員會報告審查委員楊曉玲等16人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":4136.201,"end":4137.541,"text":"選舉罷免法第五十二條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":4153.447,"end":4156.128,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":4181.495,"end":4182.816,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4197.267,"end":4205.449,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員蘇清泉等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院朝野黨團協商："},{"start":4227.333,"end":4230.395,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團擬具"},{"start":4254.721,"end":4280.914,"text":"基本上民眾黨麥玉珍我不知道他會不會再進來那看起來今天協商會變成只是過水所以我們還是在這個機會我們能用發言的時候還是要跟主席講如果你那一天主持議事那你看到民進黨沒有一個委員有辦法進來一場那你心裡沒有覺得奇怪那我想要請教主席的是為什麼官員一個都沒有進來我們今天在朝野協商官員也是來啊"},{"start":4286.176,"end":4310.51,"text":"更何況在委員會審查的時候官員更需要進來啊那天官員都沒有進來媒體朋友一個也沒進來所以主席我覺得不要睜眼說瞎話議事工房都有剛剛鄭天才委員舉了一例一休的時候我想一例一休的時候成就了誰成就了蔣萬安因為他佔領主席台一個人發言了兩個小時所有的媒體把他捧得很高"},{"start":4315.799,"end":4323.4,"text":"成就有獎忘案啊!大家都知道!那他也是在做他的意識攻防他不想讓民進黨開成會那當然後來民進黨我們用我們的方式我們希望可以把一例一休在當時完成修法但是當時雖然我們還很短的時間把他送出委員會但是國民黨一樣是有簽到一樣在意識路上國民黨是有出席的"},{"start":4345.814,"end":4355.819,"text":"那後來一例一休的處理怎樣?說因為民進黨在處理上時間太充足沒有讓大家充分發言後來經過朝野協商把他退回委員會這是一例一休的狀況後來還有一次是會計法的修法就是陳水扁總統在國務紀號費的一個狀況也是因為委員會處理有瑕疵後來還是把他退回委員會"},{"start":4373.919,"end":4374.92,"text":"擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":4386.038,"end":4389.099,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":4405.728,"end":4417.101,"text":"我覺得主席你可以去思考這件事啦你光看那個議事錄我們大家都到了立法院這麼多內政委員會的同仁到了立法院結果他們這個議事錄他們是沒有來開會的是缺席的我覺得這樣起來事實上白白大家都來政委委員會你這樣對大家立法院同事有必要嗎"},{"start":4427.182,"end":4450.032,"text":"那我還是要回到我一開始講的就是說如果國民黨認為這個選罷法透過加嚴的程序來阻絕未來不要有這麼多罷免狀況的發生那你們也達成一半了啊而且這個一半也不能說一半他基本上已經讓未來在連署上有很高的難度基本上在連署這塊你們就可以看出已經很難了就不會有連署幾乎沒辦法成功了啦"},{"start":4456.803,"end":4486.038,"text":"那如果這樣的話那你們幹嘛還要急著現在有急著說你現在退回委員會那你退回委員會未來再審查頂多再慢一點程序啊退回委員會完審查過了再回到二三讀你們還是可以達到你們最後要三讀的目的啊結果你不是啊主席你今天用這樣過水式的協商然後你要把這件事到了院長的協商後就要把它二三讀了"},{"start":4488.066,"end":4491.968,"text":"我講你這樣起來,你這個委員會的瑕疵長在那裡你也是逼著我們未來在院會處理的時候,我們要再控制一下因為你這個瑕疵長在這裡,我們怎麼可能去背書你這個瑕疵啊對吧,大家都沒辦法在那裡開會,你叫我們一號,我們要二、三度的時候,我們去背書這個瑕疵嗎"},{"start":4510.711,"end":4526.443,"text":"所以我覺得主席我覺得你可以發揮你的高度12月16也許你沒有期待到說我們的人會被阻絕在外面你覺得說是我們比較慢進來但是你應該也注意到官員也沒進來啊他確實他的問題都長在那裡嘛"},{"start":4533.138,"end":4534.379,"text":"公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4550.322,"end":4552.023,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商：一、本院內政委員"},{"start":4570.663,"end":4574.205,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案。」"},{"start":4602.224,"end":4608.108,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．事由．立法院朝野黨團協商．"},{"start":4628.2,"end":4632.807,"text":"選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案：立法院朝野黨團協商：立法院內政委員楊曉玲等17人擬具"},{"start":4638.345,"end":4643.329,"text":"立法院朝野黨團協商．事由：一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等17人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案．事由．一、本院內政委員楊曉玲等17人擬具"},{"start":4662.202,"end":4664.544,"text":"蘇清泉等23人擬具:「公職人員選舉罷免法第六十九條條文修正草案案 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那我們現在開始開會各位委員大家好我們今天是要協商國土計劃法那國土計劃法呢它攸關人民的權益社會高度關切那我們"},{"start":2106.192,"end":2132.75,"text":"在10月24號就是今年10月24號我們開了國土計劃法修正草案的公聽會那在11月7號我們也進行國土計劃法修正草案的第一次初步審查會議在11月21號我們進行了國土計劃法修正草案的審查那也審查完畢出了委員會所以本次協商呢向各位報告我們第7條"},{"start":2135.191,"end":2138.352,"text":"在國土計劃法的第7條、第23條、第35條還有第40條都有在11月21號內政委員會審議決議修正通過所以這4條原則上看看"},{"start":2152.545,"end":2177.024,"text":"這個各黨團是不是可以這個認同依委員會的決議作為本次協商會議的決議這個等一下大家都可以表達意見那第八條的部分國土署有建議的文字請委員們可以參考第45條就是延期條款那委員會保留等一下也請各黨團以及各位委員們發表高見"},{"start":2179.085,"end":2196.275,"text":"看看今天是不是可以協商能夠達到共識那另外有第32條之一關於農地發展權的部分那是淨富二讀的法案這一次也併案協商等一下我們會請提案人徐宇甄委員說明也會請主管機關來回應"},{"start":2199.597,"end":2225.563,"text":"那以上是今天大致協商需要處理的條文的一個概括那依例呢本席先介紹我們在場的委員以及行政機關列席的代表那我們首先我們介紹鄭天才委員麥玉珍委員許宇珍委員蔡易餘"},{"start":2227.15,"end":2253.558,"text":"委員您在民進黨的那個你們黨團的職稱是書記長蔡易餘書記長還有林黛樺委員接下來我們介紹我們今天列席的出席的行政官員我們內政部部長劉部長釋芳內政部政務次長董次長建宏"},{"start":2256.755,"end":2280.181,"text":"農業部政務次長胡忠一次長我們還有內政部國土署署長吳興修署長以及經濟部綜合規劃司副司長許嘉琳副司長人民會副主委杜章梅莊副主委"},{"start":2286.165,"end":2288.168,"text":"財政部有兩位專門委員張潔祐專委跟何慧麗專委法務部的廖江縣參事"},{"start":2300.001,"end":2324.036,"text":"還有國家科學及技術委員會的產學及園區業務處副處長陳昭榮副處長行政院主計總處的戴群芳專門委員戴專委有到嗎有在後面好謝謝好那我們現在呢就那等一下好了等一下"},{"start":2328.922,"end":2346.477,"text":"那我們是不是先讓我們各位委員來發表這個意見還是剛剛本席所說的這樣好了我們在委員會已經照案通過審查結果的第7條、第35條、第40條"},{"start":2351.761,"end":2354.562,"text":"還有23條對第7條第23條第35條第40條是不是這4條就照委員會好那請鄭天才委員有關這個第23條大家看23條23條在這個一二三第三項"},{"start":2380.834,"end":2390.179,"text":"前項就是這個修正的條文前項規則中涉及原住民族土地及部落之使用管制者這一計劃"},{"start":2392.762,"end":2416.221,"text":"因為現行的條文是原住民族土地及海域本席當初提出的修正條文是原住民族土地海域後面是加了部落及部落周邊一定範圍之土地使用管制者當時上次協商的時候"},{"start":2418.082,"end":2443.452,"text":"這個大家是針對部落桌邊一定範圍這個認定比較有大家有顧慮了因為這個部落桌邊一定範圍當然這個條文也不是新開創的是現行的原住民族基本法21條裡面的文字但是大家還是對這個部落桌邊一定範圍所以後來把這個部落桌邊一定範圍這個刪除掉了"},{"start":2444.272,"end":2472.646,"text":"但是現行條文原來有的那個海域是不是我建議還是應該留著上次是只是把那個部落周邊一定範圍這個因為比較難大家比較有疑慮所以刪除是不是把海域還是留著所以是原住民族土地海域及部落是使用管制者以上好那這個行政單位是不是有回應"},{"start":2476.415,"end":2477.862,"text":"好 請袁明慧副主委"},{"start":2479.811,"end":2508.966,"text":"跟委員說明,那個一開始是有海域的這樣的文字後來上一次協調的時候我們有跟委員說明委員就希望說要加部落一定範圍的部分那當時海域的部分是沒有特別說一定要放在裡面當然原條文是有那當然放在裡面對整個使用管制上是有幫助但是實務上海域要去做一些管制的話可能涉及的層面更廣那我們的意見是說如果要保留它的話可能我們還要再"},{"start":2509.864,"end":2516.737,"text":"評估看有沒有辦法定得出海域的部分因為這個傳統海域的發射事實上目前還沒有一個比較具體的範圍"},{"start":2519.07,"end":2545.441,"text":"我的建議啦就是說海域還是留著但是現行你們已經跟內政部研擬的那個使用管制規則現在目前還用不到海域就先不定在那個使用管制規則裡面因為這是現行的條文啦現行的條文只是把那個部落加上去就好了那所以為那個35條第一項的部分要一併調整是不是"},{"start":2552.483,"end":2553.463,"text":"所以是不是第23條就照鄭天才委員剛剛所說的把海域加上去"},{"start":2569.998,"end":2597.045,"text":"主席這個23條齁那因為我看到政委的版本他除了土地海域還有叫做部落以及部落周邊一定範圍那這個部落周邊一定範圍他就是只有部落好那是不是這部分我想是不是還是要讓那個主管機關要表示一下意見"},{"start":2598.866,"end":2618.566,"text":"請大家可以看一下螢幕我們把這個溝通正在討論溝通的結果我們就秀出來所以政委員提出就是說他除了土地還要加海域現行條文留著是不是可以"},{"start":2619.304,"end":2644.34,"text":"當然以一般來講我們的法律體力是你現在有的話圖管就一定要有但現在的狀況是在圖管根本現在不會有所以我們也是擔心這樣的體力出來以後會變成說到時候又要被又要被再加訂啦這樣我覺得是不是確定可以的話再一起處理就好了因為變成體力上就對不起來我知道"},{"start":2656.618,"end":2678.792,"text":"那這個部分要不要待會我們可以先往下這個你們溝通一下因為其實現在如果沒有海域的話其實現在都還行得通啦我是說到時候有具體的時候再一起處理看委員覺得怎麼樣因為反而相對你有的話計畫書或什麼要有的話其實都還來得及加啦"},{"start":2681.55,"end":2693.795,"text":"好 政委員我們因為現行條文有我們把它刪除這個我們只是說希望能夠更好的話就是加那個部落因為部落確實是需要的來 朱祁英"},{"start":2699.926,"end":2727.825,"text":"主席我想這部分基本上就是政委員他說要部落那如果主管機關也認為這部分可以這我們是沒什麼意見那就海域的部分有涉及到他的管制的對象那剛剛主管機關好像也有一些認為疑慮的地方那我想這部分是不是我們可以先保留那未來在院長的朝野協商的時候我們再來進一步的溝通"},{"start":2728.806,"end":2730.028,"text":"我只是說齁我只是說因為"},{"start":2740.034,"end":2760.241,"text":"你們內政部跟園民會已經在溝通學了很多次的使用管制規則你們也是一線型的條文定的啊海域還是在那邊啊所以不要太堅持我們只是把部落放進去主席可不可以讓園民會講個話好不好園民會你怎麼看"},{"start":2765.939,"end":2789.517,"text":"我剛好表達過說原本的那個條文是有海域啦那上一次委員修說是海域是拿掉的啦那我說上一次上一次協調的時候是拿掉的那現在這個海域因為它原本的條文是有那我們事實上跟內政部也在協調這個相關的執法的部分你自己認不認為應該把海域跟部落放進去我們可能認為說那個海域跟部落放進去是OK的啦"},{"start":2790.27,"end":2813.046,"text":"你認為在現況的我們這個過渡機關去納入的話有沒有便於而且更明確讓你去執行你在部落跟海域的一個輔導也好或者是一個管理也好你自己本身身為園民會的主管機關你自己要表達你現況的管理面、輔導面上"},{"start":2815.147,"end":2835.174,"text":"併案審查委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員吳琪銘等16人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳超明等19人、委員陳"},{"start":2837.895,"end":2862.051,"text":"海域 什麼叫做海域它的範圍 它要去定義它包括部落 這個我們常常一直講有沒有需要在你的國土計劃法當中相關的執法當中 再明確去定義所以你本身是主管機關那你自己就要表達那至於那個內容定義的部分你可以讓國土署來參考你所謂的定義好不好 你再明確講一下"},{"start":2864.337,"end":2883.812,"text":"針對海域的部分我們之前在協調的時候我們的使用管制規則裡面事實上當時有寫了一條的有關於海域的它也是延續那個延期法的那個精神就是這個非營利使用的這個採集它是免申請類似這樣的條款事實上在管制規則我們目前協調的部分是有"},{"start":2884.781,"end":2903.715,"text":"是有這個部分所以我們認為是說如果以當時我們協調那樣的版本其實海域在這個原的法院裡面放海域其實我們是認同說是可以的那部落呢部落本來就在裡面了本來就有了那周邊拿掉你覺得也沒也應該要拿掉"},{"start":2904.733,"end":2923.349,"text":"一定範圍那個是我們跟委員說希望拿掉因為那個戒指不好是不是這樣進行主席這個原民會畢竟有我們原民的主在如果主管機關都認同那我就覺得放入只是說裡面的內容是國土署他覺得哪裡是不宜的"},{"start":2923.969,"end":2938.854,"text":"裏面的內容他認為這個海域的部分他在議題裡不同他剛才講了一個什麼之前的法令沒有什麼的法裡面是沒有規範的那就是加進去而已而且那個是行政作為他們自己可以處理的"},{"start":2941.522,"end":2969.567,"text":"所以林委員是認同政經財委員加海運對因為對今天是最主要是主管機關我今天是聽主管機關他本身是原住民委員會那我覺得現在主管機關都說應該要有那我覺得民意跟主管機關是認同那我覺得是不是應該要放入那國土計劃法的上邊的文字是可以去甄列的啊國土署是可以去甄列的啊"},{"start":2972.323,"end":2972.766,"text":"好,請留不著"},{"start":2974.28,"end":3001.124,"text":"做這個總結的回應因為我看這個第23條的第一段他是在處理有關禁止跟限制使用那剛剛我問一下原民會他們會認為說如果在海域裡面的話大概是只有採集比如說可能或者是其他的捕撈類似這樣子但是我們講海域的部分的話在內政部跟原民會的主管之外"},{"start":3001.744,"end":3026.94,"text":"其實還會有國防部的海軍或者是海洋委員會他們的海巡需要在處理的這個區域也就是說有海的部分跟有陸的部分或是島礁的這部分都是要做一個比較嚴格的定義那目前為止因為今天來出席的就是我們內政部跟那個園民會所以我們會認為說是不是把它放到保留的部分"},{"start":3027.56,"end":3055.959,"text":"因為我的意思就是說如果你把它放進去變成太多的限制或是太多的禁止都不是好事那所以我是覺得說看政委員尤其是提案的委員可不可以給一點時間那剛剛我們蔡易餘書記長特別提到給我們一點時間我們再來思考一下我們都知道就是這個有一些是屬於海洋性的這個原民部落有需求那怎麼個需求放到原民圖館的部分後我們一定會照這樣的方向來處理但是現在把它放進去的話有點是"},{"start":3058.02,"end":3086.838,"text":"牽涉到其他部會不是新的放是原來就有了我不是是原來就有了我知道但是在這一條裡面呢它並不是放寬喔你要注意看一下所以我是覺得說這個要多加思考啦因為這一條條文原來的就有含義現行條文現行條文就有那如果這個行政單位跟我們提案委員的意見沒有辦法還沒有辦法取得公示是不是對那我們第23條我們就保留好不好"},{"start":3088.493,"end":3115.488,"text":"那所以我們第23條原本要修正喔那現在就是保留那我們想確定第7條、第35條、第40條是不是照之前內政委員會審查的結果大家有沒有意見好 請邱委書記長就是說因為這些條文基本上因為國土法我們委員會有審查但是我想有一些條文我們是不是都還是可以在"},{"start":3116.587,"end":3126.891,"text":"吳琪銘等16人、委員陳超明等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員陳超明等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳琪琪等21人、委員吳"},{"start":3146.684,"end":3153.509,"text":"第八條國土署有建議的文字請委員們參考看大家有沒有什麼意見那請國土署說明建議文字"},{"start":3172.484,"end":3198.758,"text":"建議文字就是在這個原條文的第三大項裡面直轄市縣市政府主管機關擬定直轄市縣市國路計劃時的辦理鄉村地區整體規劃並是實際需要研擬鄉村地區計劃納入直轄市縣市國路計劃並得以另以覆測方式定之那這個就是因為之前"},{"start":3200.739,"end":3226.234,"text":"這個鄉村第一整理規劃原來的作業方式是你訂了以後那再納到通盤檢討裡面去那當然因為地方政府有一些有希望有一個比較明確而且快速的一個執行那所以我們在這裡呢也認同在地方政府他的確有做鄉村第一整理規劃並且有明訂他的一個執行方式那所以我們才建議就那就在第八條裡面"},{"start":3227.634,"end":3253.866,"text":"強化這條條文的法令執行的效力直接放進去的話而且得以覆測的方式來訂製就是讓他很明確這一本規劃報告如果經過審查確實是有可以明確執行的方式的話他可以另以覆測方式訂製他不用再通盤檢討主意去載明是這樣方式"},{"start":3256.213,"end":3279.079,"text":"好 謝謝吳署長的說明 請問在座的委員對第八條有沒有什麼意見 請徐玉珍委員我認同那個國土署的 對 對 請徐玉珍委員好 謝謝主席 針對第八條的部分 我想是不是這個部分也跟其他條文一樣 就是也是保留送協商 謝謝"},{"start":3281.394,"end":3309.217,"text":"那請林代化委員我認同國土署他這個讓地方政府當中有明確的針對尤其鄉村地區的計劃如果有需要的話他也納入這個直轄縣市國土這個是對於有鄉村的一個縣市來講會尊重地方政府的給地方政府有明確的一個依據我個人是很支持的"},{"start":3311.437,"end":3322.111,"text":"謝謝林黛嬅委員還有沒有其他委員要表達意見如果沒有的話那我們還是保留那我們第八條我們也保留"},{"start":3324.702,"end":3344.708,"text":"好那請行政單位請是次長是董事長要跟委員們報告那第八條我們還是希望說能夠那個照審查通過因為其實各縣市政府我們都有補助相關的相規那大家也都進行進行到一段一定程度包括雲林縣包括嘉義縣包括"},{"start":3345.368,"end":3366.028,"text":"高雄市政府、新北市、桃園市我們都有補助所以我們是希望說這些補助包括澎湖我們都希望說透過這個法令我們就入法那這些已經在進行的案子我們就可以很快的放入以覆測的方式放入我們國土計畫裡面這樣就可以保障大家地方上的權益所以這一點還是懇請委員給我們支持謝謝"},{"start":3369.964,"end":3382.907,"text":"我想這個部分我覺得還是我們保留送協商大家可以再充分的討論好那我們第8條還是我們也保留第8條也保留那接下來我們討論第45條那請國土署說明45條就是有關是否要這個延期的"},{"start":3400.046,"end":3427.927,"text":"好那45條因為目前其實我們在到目前截止已經有16個縣市政府都有送來那其實到目前我們已經完成了9個這個國土計畫的審查那當然依照在行政單位來講我們在這幾年都依據法令規定來持續來進行所以我們希望還是能夠讓努力讓我們來能夠如期來完成這樣的一個國土計畫所以這一點部分在行政單位"},{"start":3428.787,"end":3453.908,"text":"當然還是覺得我們希望是如期請董事長我們行政單位說完我們再請委員們我也補充說明一下除了已經繳交的16個縣市以外我們這幾天我們也積極跟幾個地方縣市首長我們都有直接通電話包括我也跟雲林縣張縣長南投縣徐縣長然後新北市的劉副市長"},{"start":3455.549,"end":3474.519,"text":"還有台中市的黃副市長我們都有直接通電話還有彰化縣的王縣長他們都直接承諾我他們會在年底就是這沒幾天他們會在年底之前繳交國土計畫所以大概目前可能我們還是積極努力所以希望說我們儘量就是說能夠如期讓我們能夠"},{"start":3476.621,"end":3502.802,"text":"將這個對於關於整個國家重大的國土空間的計畫能夠把它完成那當然我們也同意就是說一旦送進來之後我們經過審查之後事實上就可以馬上啟動那個通盤檢討那透過啟動通盤檢討那將大家很多疑義的部分就在進行那個進一步的修正那事實上雲林縣張縣長也告訴我他送進來的草案他就是把他們已經修訂好的那個包括農一農二的空間的轉換"},{"start":3503.782,"end":3512.005,"text":"這個都送進來我們也都承諾我們會依照地方的特色我們來做經景的審查那希望能夠爭取委員們的支持謝謝好那請林淑芬委員"},{"start":3519.468,"end":3545.793,"text":"主席我是要談說那個高金素美委員有一個修正動議而這個修正動議就是說其實在這個有報佈審議完成的已經有14個縣市了那其他沒有承諾要報佈已經16個了然後完成審議了所以事實上他們可以先行這個施行畢竟2015年就已經完成立法2015年到現在已經將近10年了快10年了"},{"start":3547.873,"end":3563.432,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面是不是能夠讓這個報佈而且審議完成的人先行那只要修正一個文字就是說一併公告的這個一併拿掉以後呢大家就可以分階段先走的人然後準備好的人先行這樣子高金樹北委員的修正動議"},{"start":3569.594,"end":3589.331,"text":"其他還有沒有委員請許宇甄委員謝謝主席其實有關這個國土計劃法是不是要展延的部分其實主要的癥結點還是在於就是說其實糧食安全應該是要全國一起來負擔不應該由農業縣或是農民就是來負擔所有的權責所以現在我想癥結點這些農業縣的癥結點就在於說"},{"start":3592.294,"end":3614.611,"text":"針對農民的損失但目前政府並沒有提出相關的配套措施比如說該針對他們的特別犧牲該給予怎麼樣的補償那其實我想這個國土計劃法已經其實立法也超過8年了那有關機關也還沒有辦法提出良好的對策跟補償的方案那既然政府要限制農地的使用方式那就應該要給農民的補償我覺得這樣對辛苦耕種的農民才有保障"},{"start":3618.895,"end":3632.327,"text":"因為為了保障農民的權益我們還是希望等到有關機關能夠提出相關的修法保障農民的權益所以我們還是希望能夠展延至於展延的年限的話我覺得這個都可以討論至於剛剛董事長有特別提到我們幾個農業縣市的縣市長都有說年底之前12月30日前會提出其實他們的想法是說"},{"start":3642.637,"end":3666.309,"text":"希望在如期的提出是希望說在這段時間還是要有提出對於我們農業的這個農民的損失要提出賠償或對策的方案而不是說只是說我提出已經對這個這部法沒有意見他只是說希望能夠不要變成說全國好像只有誰沒有提出那還是希望說希望這個部分應該還是要提出相關的配套措施以上好那請問還有沒有好請蔡書記講"},{"start":3672.093,"end":3698.175,"text":"好 謝謝主席那主席我們看到這個45條幾乎很多版本那版本中有希望再展延那也有其他的不同那我自己有一個版本那我的版本主要還是針對因為我們未來我們知道農業縣在面對國土計畫如果正式上路之後對於農業縣他們土地的一個利用"},{"start":3698.916,"end":3701.157,"text":"每一個縣市他們承擔的說他們國土保育區或農業發展區的一個土地的一個比例"},{"start":3724.322,"end":3745.188,"text":"讓這個縣市因為他們負責更多的糧食安全或者是負責更多的一個水源的供給那他們應該要拿到更多的統籌分配那很可惜事實上我在財政委員會我的財化法都沒有被討論那現在三讀後也沒有把"},{"start":3747.328,"end":3754.995,"text":"兩市安全和水源地的標準列在這個統籌分配的這個評分的一個配比的一個配比所以變成說我這個我自己這個提案在於"},{"start":3764.123,"end":3784.172,"text":"跟財化法的聯動看起來變得遙遙無期了啦可能也都沒辦法處理到啦所以我是想說在這樣的一個情況之下那還有其他這麼多委員的版本所以我建議啦我們這個大概爭議最大的就是在這個45條那我想這個我還是主張我們是不是保留朝野協商然後大家再來做這個通盤的一個討論好 謝謝"},{"start":3789.163,"end":3808.652,"text":"好 謝謝 請林黛嬅委員接下來請林淑芬委員好 這個我也贊成在朝野協商當中再去討論以我高雄市來講我們整個東高雄、旗美地區9區我們的人口流失非常嚴重"},{"start":3809.853,"end":3817.216,"text":"我的出生率已經降到3.77%我60歲以上的占比是34.11%聽好哦60歲以上是占34.41%一個高雄市的城鄉差距是這麼大那現在我要來處理就是所謂的農業的非都市計劃內的這個農地的問題也就是在我高雄市之後你更限制了"},{"start":3838.644,"end":3865.72,"text":"我整個在榮地佔最多的東高雄跟非都市計劃內的榮地好那對於城鄉發展的這個部分是否能夠適宜性的做產業的發展就業制就業增加就業機會在相關所有的配套沒有講清楚之前本席是反對都市計劃法的通過配套如果沒有"},{"start":3867.321,"end":3876.651,"text":"國土計劃法當中的配套沒有提出來的時候那就是延期要把配套重於我的主計劃再來我們說這個國土計劃法當中要達到的目的是什麼我們講到說要糧食安全就以現況"},{"start":3885.52,"end":3910.956,"text":"糧食安全的風險這個通過之後自給率是下降的龍一的面積是少於區域計劃法當中的特定農業區原本約有3萬到4萬公頃的河川地在不影響防洪的前提下長期做農業使用是臺灣重要蔬菜、瓜類產地卻要被列為國土保育法"},{"start":3912.317,"end":3938.378,"text":"在都市計劃下的10萬公頃的農地當中農業部也曾經盤點有將近3萬公頃能是優良的農地應放在農業發展地區的第五類但最後各縣市政府卻是依據城市發展需求將大部分符合完整且高比率農業條件的農地放入了城鄉發展地區"},{"start":3939.822,"end":3967.725,"text":"該放的不放那目前有在做農作的不該放的你要放上述三個地區超過家種就超過10萬公頃的面積是重要生產力的農地卻未被列入優良農地的範圍這樣農地發展地區的話色恐讓台灣的農業生產力降低導致糧食自主力的下降影響糧食安全的風險好那再來"},{"start":3969.126,"end":3992.511,"text":"農地管理及品質有沒有提升我認為沒有如果這個法通過農業部原先依據全國國土計劃法發射來模擬農醫面積是33萬7千公頃但各縣市政府提報的農醫的面積是多少27萬7千公頃相較之下少了6萬少了6萬"},{"start":3996.039,"end":4017.173,"text":"倘若土地管理制度如果沒有合理的配套處理一定造成農業生產力的下降好再來阻礙農業發展許多農業休閒地區或農場被化為國土保育地區限縮了具百億產值的休閒農場的發展"},{"start":4019.654,"end":4043.283,"text":"若以為將山坡地直接化為國土保育區就達到保育的目標而不細緻我強調細緻區分環境敏感程度及影響輕重除了畫色成果完全和事實有嚴重的落差也可能造成保育跟農業雙輸以我高雄市原高雄縣"},{"start":4044.503,"end":4050.67,"text":"是我農業區的重鎮元高雄縣是我元高雄市的19倍面積耶我們的配套以及劃分的細膩性"},{"start":4056.027,"end":4080.804,"text":"是沒有的所以這個部分我站在高雄市民全高雄市民成鄉要均衡發展高高高平共榮成鄉共好這個理念之下如果配套沒有百分百的給我提出來本席我是反對現有的規劃要馬上通過所以我建議就是延期那我也贊成保留協商 謝謝"},{"start":4083.994,"end":4103.53,"text":"謝謝林代化委員我們這個討論了那麼久可是怎麼高雄的委員都還對於我們這個國土計劃法有這麼多的這樣的施行感覺還不是很OK所以我本心是希望行政單位應該要多溝通那我們接下來請林淑芬委員"},{"start":4104.13,"end":4108.612,"text":"好 各位在2015年要立法的時候我們就考慮到這個對地方對行政還有對這個農業地區的人會很大的衝擊所以我們其實是給了8年至少8年的這個準備了並不是說一完成立法就馬上要怎麼樣其實沒有如果大家覺得8年不夠可是我們知道看來16個縣市他們認為足夠了所以他們已經送出來而且已經完成審議了所以我們的意思是說那不夠的人大家想個辦法"},{"start":4134.005,"end":4138.609,"text":"就脫鉤嘛已經完成審議的人那你就先行那不夠的人就你要慢慢來你就慢慢來但是不要給他定時你要定時定6年定8年然後呢人家準備好的人他就已經準備好你叫他不能施行所以我們是不是能夠務實一點的討論就是說我們把疑病疑病這個字眼拿掉"},{"start":4158.105,"end":4173.038,"text":"那前面的到底是要幾年或是不要框幾年限縮死了你可能4年後那中央去指定施行日期那中央你就是不要一併分階段準備好的先行這樣子"},{"start":4173.899,"end":4178.042,"text":"這樣是很務實的就是你現在定了8年定了6年然後呢人家準備好的你還讓他不能上路在這種狀況裡面有可能準備好的地方的他們的大家為了搶這個過渡時期所以農地會持續流失和破碎化那他沒有辦法維持一個合理的運用大家都搶個案變更而且個案變更的申請數量已經暴增了的確都是暴增了我們今天在講說個別縣市以外你要考量全國"},{"start":4203.679,"end":4229.227,"text":"全國的這一些國土的規劃我們事實上國土計劃法並不是說洪水猛獸事實上也很多縣市他因為這個國土計劃法通過了以後呢這一些縣市他們有可能可以增加自己規劃他們因為有彈性可以比如說他們自訂可以因為地方特殊需求訂出管制規則阿里山縣阿里山鄉可以阿里山民宿區雲林的寺廟專區等等"},{"start":4230.908,"end":4254.469,"text":"那我們其實在裡面也允許一些這個新建農舍等相關設施並不是完全沒有彈性但是你主張這樣子就沒有辦法個案變更想要維持個案變更的沒關係 那你就慢一點那我們準備好的先行所以因為這樣子高金素美委員才會有一個修正動議所以如果這個大家是不是先討論我們戰不戰成分階段"},{"start":4257.287,"end":4279.516,"text":"準備好的先行那分階段準備好的先行那文字應該怎麼修才是最恰當的那沒有準備好的我們也不強迫他但文字要怎麼修可以讓他們不被強迫到如果這樣子逃退而求其次啦大家都不要太把它鎖死我們也不鎖死現在馬上那如果也不鎖死說阿一定要規定6年8年以後那我們讓準備好的先行那要怎麼處理很務實的來討論這樣子"},{"start":4287.404,"end":4290.567,"text":"好 謝謝接著請劉建國委員發言好 謝謝主席可以請坐啦請坐啦因為不一定會請行政官員回座因為是林委員講完我接續講林委員講的講完我基本上"},{"start":4312.128,"end":4340.181,"text":"是尊重但是正在內政部、正在農業部如果單純以農業的這個規劃來去做思考對於國土計畫在整體這個四個公共分區裡面我們的占比是怎麼樣我相信正在中央主管機關有一定的這樣的一個科學的一些根據跟盤查所以這個案如果說已經準備好了先行"},{"start":4341.121,"end":4365.64,"text":"那後面的再補上來那會不會跟你們原有的評估相關的科學這些根據有所落差那萬一有落差的時候能有去做調整哪一個縣市他必須要去做調整哪一個縣市他要檢要爭誰來做這樣的一個決定那地方政府願意願意願意這樣接受嗎"},{"start":4366.721,"end":4394.168,"text":"因為國土計畫基本上二屆就是縣市政府的公告這很清楚現在來到中央所以中央跟地方必須要充分合作然後非常的清楚把整個這樣的一個四大的功能盤整得非常非常到位他有夠格去做國土計畫不然我覺得如果整個在執行過程裡面幾個縣市是這樣幾個縣市又是那樣"},{"start":4396.38,"end":4417.979,"text":"到時候破壞整體的一個制度、佔比也會造成未來國土計畫的破碎性跟被人民挑戰這是第一件事情第二件事情我一直有在特別強調就是說當時為什麼在小康政府的時候會延了三年"},{"start":4418.94,"end":4427.473,"text":"那當時延伸三年最主要理由是什麼?好,現在時間到了那當年延的理由現在有消滅掉了嗎?"},{"start":4428.43,"end":4455.553,"text":"如果當時演的理由到現在要去執行反而還沒有消滅掉的時候那現在怎麼有辦法去執行這是第二件事情那第三件事情剛剛參議員也特別提到那天也是在這個財務法裡面我特別提到的一件事情我們在講財政訴訟法為什麼要跟國土計畫會連結在一塊因為那天很可惜財政訴訟法我們都在講收我們沒有在講支"},{"start":4457.339,"end":4479.699,"text":"只講收不講資啦所以那個陳浩華那天在秀的時候已經違背了財政雙數方法的整個公平性跟他的原意相對的我們雲林縣、農業大縣各位都非常清楚一直在講糧食自給率、自給率我們在糧食自給率的供應、貢獻有多大農業部有幫我們講話嗎?有幫我們把這個東西盤整出來嗎?"},{"start":4483.402,"end":4496.483,"text":"不是只有銀縣、嘉義、彰化、屏東等報完剛剛林大法委員特別提到了東高雄這些原有的農業用地現在在區域計畫裡面就是特農跟一般農"},{"start":4497.852,"end":4523.994,"text":"那顧名思義可能不是100%的轉嫁啦比如說特農就一定變成農醫但是依照我們雲林縣原有的規劃5萬5的在區計畫裡面的特農變成農醫之後是成了6萬我不曉得國民署跟農業部有沒有去看到這樣的事情那我雲林縣一年產值八九百億屏東人產值七百多億"},{"start":4525.441,"end":4532.289,"text":"屏東現在的特農是1萬1變成國土經濟化之後的農業剩下5500那雲林原本是5萬5國土經濟化的農業之後變成6萬我們足足大過屏東12倍"},{"start":4546.172,"end":4565.583,"text":"這個你們要去思考啊我現在讓你聽地方政委說他現在在做調整了他有在調整了他怎麼調整他調整起來合不合乎整個農業貢獻的這個縣市的農役的占比包含農二包含農三等這個占比公平嗎這個大家講清楚啊"},{"start":4570.034,"end":4591.685,"text":"在這個沒有講清楚的情況之下然後我們又是依照當時什麼樣的根據然後去做這樣的一個規劃為何原先是這樣的規劃那現在當然有一些討論有一些質疑有一些挑戰的情況之下又去做了大幅的修正喔"},{"start":4593.103,"end":4602.791,"text":"現在不到6萬了,剩下多少,你們都比我更清楚因為你們都有各別隊、各縣市去做聯繫嘛這個轉換這麼多,這個窗戶誰要負責任啊怎麼一下子可以這樣,一下子又可以那樣那你中央全部報給你,你都能概括承受嗎?你都接受嗎?所以你要跟我講國土計畫的執行"},{"start":4619.049,"end":4640.617,"text":"對農民而言、對農業而言、對私農工商而言、對都內跟非都所有的土地的這樣的一個運用規劃站在一個國家的上位土地的一個規劃的計劃裡面我這樣搞下去我會覺得我無所遵循啦我無所遵循"},{"start":4642.161,"end":4667.594,"text":"所以我當然知道說有許多縣市人家七早八早可能透過很多的專家學者教授專業的團隊顧問進駐長期的去把這整個空間盤整出來如何去跟如果有三級政府的去跟鄉鎮市透過鄉規透過其他的這樣的一個評估很認真的很用心的然後站在不管是站在這一個"},{"start":4669.539,"end":4696.206,"text":"站在這個農民的角度站在農地的角度去好好去做思考他規劃出來可能他現在已經到位了他們地方有沒有什麼意見我覺得剛剛林委員所講的確實啊有些人你要準備好你該讓人家上路去上路啊但是我說回歸到中央你站在全國的去面對到到底你是在八十萬的農地七十萬的農地六十萬的農地然後分布在所謂的農一到農五"},{"start":4697.506,"end":4714.636,"text":"你中央定奪了嗎?你中央決定了嗎?到時候如果先後訴訟的情況之下又沒有照你們如期的這樣的一個規劃、目標的面積那除了插入誰負責?是地方負責還是中央負責?這個大家要講清楚啊"},{"start":4720.221,"end":4744.075,"text":"這個一定要講清楚最後一點我特別強調當我們在供給這樣的一個糧食全國算是最大宗的蔬果包含畜牧業幾乎算是最大的情況之下在財政訴諸荒野的時候怎麼這個分配沒有把農業的這樣的一個貢獻去把它分配出來"},{"start":4745.031,"end":4762.28,"text":"那我現在在國土計畫裡面我們要把這個東西塞進去塞得進去嗎?如果塞如果只有農業縣的一個縣市去塞那當然其他縣市又會覺得不公平那我就不曉得你們要怎麼執行下去所以我簡單做適當的提醒給各位做一個參考"},{"start":4765.286,"end":4789.301,"text":"主席是不是就劉委員所說的就是說如果分階段讓準備好人先行真的會站在中央的立場會有這個產生這樣的困難嗎是不是請行政部門出來說明一下好本席先詢問還有沒有委員有要針對45條發言的好如果暫時沒有那我們請行政單位來說明"},{"start":4795.193,"end":4822.167,"text":"謝謝召委我想我來綜合回答一下剛剛幾位委員的這個憂慮第一個我非常謝謝各位因為在兩三個月前國土計劃法其實被充分的污名化那現在終於我們爭取到有空間有時間來跟大家來討論我是覺得非常謝謝各位不管最後的修正條文會產生什麼樣的結果但是我要先跟各位報告一下就是說從國土計劃法開始實行到現在"},{"start":4823.027,"end":4841.422,"text":"第一個 全國的國土計劃法已經公告第二個 各縣市的國土計劃也已經公告所以所謂的大面積 不管是大面積的農地或是大面積的工業區土地在不管是4年前或是8年前曾經公告過那現在我們只不過是希望說"},{"start":4842.823,"end":4860.463,"text":"各縣市政府可以按照當時差不多是4年前的縣市的國土計劃的一個公告的內容把功能分區圖再送到內政部來審議這是一個審議的機制不是說來了我們就是打圈或打叉絕對是沒有這個意思"},{"start":4862.125,"end":4866.527,"text":"那同時在處理的程序當中我們有加入所謂的通盤檢討那一般來講我們所了解的通盤檢討大概是五年但是如果大家覺得說五年太長的時間雖然寫五年內但是很多人都把它講成是五年我們也可以認同說縮短到也許是三年內也沒有關係"},{"start":4882.176,"end":4896.732,"text":"也就是說這個機制它是可以跟著變動的在內政或是說在國土計畫的這個審議委員會裡面如果它要調整的話其實是只有微調的空間除非縣市政府它要修改它的"},{"start":4897.353,"end":4900.696,"text":"公能分區圖透過通盤計劃的檢討這個大概就是跟幾位委員所提到的部分跟大家先回應一下然後會進入就是大家所說的部分為什麼我們會提鄉規的部分就是說我們希望在有農業生產為主的比較偏鄉或是鄉鎮的地區可以納入鄉村級的都市計劃"},{"start":4921.152,"end":4926.036,"text":"也就是說我們不是只有農地拿來生產農業農地也有農民的生活圈也有農民所需要的包括學校、市場等等這些所以它如果變成是相規計劃的部分的話也可以容納進去我們的功能分區圖來一起來討論也就是說我們把處理的程序盡量把它透明化跟公開化同時要有一致性"},{"start":4945.289,"end":4951.475,"text":"這個一致性就是縣市地方政府跟這個我們的國土計劃委員會裡面能夠達到一定的功能那大家都有達到這樣的共識的時候我們才有可能把剛剛所說的因為區域計劃法會可能隨著未來如果有公告這個國土功能分區的時候可能就是要關門了那也就是說在這樣子的轉變的過程當中一定會有很多爭議"},{"start":4969.013,"end":4983.42,"text":"那現在目前爭議最大的就是來自於農業縣的幾個這個委員所關心的部分那大概有幾些問題呢這個大概是我們的農業部門可以跟大家來做一下回應那以上是程序呢我先跟大家做一個簡要的說明好嗎謝謝好"},{"start":4987.264,"end":5006.455,"text":"那如果針對45條這個如果沒有委員還要發表意見的話因為我們整個的包括延長的時間還有是不是要把一併拿掉沒有整體的共識所以我們就保留保留剩議員會協商"},{"start":5007.896,"end":5026.229,"text":"好,那最後我們就來到第32條之一,有關於農地發展權的這一個,它是禁負二讀的法案,是不是我們請提案委員,許宇甄委員來說明"},{"start":5035.029,"end":5040.461,"text":"謝謝主席還有謝謝我們的部長請先回座 謝謝有關這個"},{"start":5047.343,"end":5070.33,"text":"有關本席所提出的《國土計劃法》增訂第32條之一的條文草案主要是針對在《國土計劃法》是著重在化學功能分區但是整部法我們看到只有棍子沒有糖果因為農業是國家的發展之本那農地更是國土永續重要的一環那《國土計劃法》不能只做土地的管制也應該要有農業的補償"},{"start":5071.75,"end":5090.011,"text":"那損失補償以及土地配套措施的完整支持就讓整體的架構更加完備才能讓農業能夠持續的發展農民才更有意願能夠繼續投入耕作那這一次推動農業錢修法的主核心目標是為了保障農民的權益我們檢視國土計劃法"},{"start":5091.713,"end":5095.875,"text":"關於農業權並沒有相關的規範因此在國土計劃法暫緩實行如果實施通過後應該一併處理農業權的一個問題那農民對於國土計劃法的憂慮主要的針點在於受限制卻沒有補償會有增訂農業權使良好的農地獲得法定的補償才能減少農民對農地轉為非農使用的誘因農業才能永續發展"},{"start":5118.604,"end":5132.377,"text":"而土地權益的措施應包含農地發展權的移轉以及農業農地價值量化或計算的相關補貼方式最好將糧食安全等效益回歸給農民、農地和農業的發展才能達成政府維護農地農用的政策目標"},{"start":5137.521,"end":5152.907,"text":"農地發展權是影響全國農民的重要的一個政策議題那中央政府欲積極嚴密方案由於我國對於農業權、農地發展權一直都停留在概念的層面缺乏農地發展權相關的移轉制度的立法授權"},{"start":5153.647,"end":5176.184,"text":"那為了兼顧糧食安全期、土地公平爭議、農業權的修法完成之後我們將授權中央主管機關提出全國農地的發展權移轉制度政府可以嚴密適合我國農業用地以及建築用地的合理的調配的制度避免中央地方各自解讀、各自論述的一個情形"},{"start":5177.245,"end":5198.575,"text":"因此本席提出國土計劃法增訂第23條之一增列有關農業權補償的條文那希望增訂之後讓農民的權益獲得明確的保障那也可以提高農民的收益並提升人民從農的意願落實國家糧食安全的目標促使農業永續發展以達到區域發展的橫平性謝謝"},{"start":5204.62,"end":5206.884,"text":"我們接下來是不是請國土署還有農業部來說明先請國土署先請農業部"},{"start":5219.956,"end":5239.806,"text":"謝謝委員那事實上我們現行的區域計劃法當中屬於農業用地的這些農地在轉為國土計劃法全面實施之後它被劃入農業發展地區農役到農務的話它還是農地仍然可以按照"},{"start":5240.566,"end":5264.547,"text":"目前的農業的產制取消來使用它也叫做農地所以變成國土計劃法之後我們並沒有對於農役到農務有任何加強嚴格的管制的這樣的狀況因此並沒有所謂的實質損失所以既然沒有這個加研也沒有實質的損失的話事實上就沒有發生所謂合理的補償因為現在的"},{"start":5267.049,"end":5287.799,"text":"區域計劃法之下的這個農地你如果變成國土計劃法裡面的一套農務的話還是可以照本來的這個使用所受到的限制目前區域計劃法裡面有三項受到限制第一個就是寵物生命紀念館的設施這個不能設在農役裡面第二個就是這些砂石碎結"},{"start":5288.879,"end":5313.278,"text":"委員習選不能再容移第三個就是事業廢棄物設施不能再容移事實上現在的特定農業區也是一樣受到這樣的一個限制因此根本沒有說區域計劃法變成國土計劃法之後有實質的我們對於土地管制的加嚴所以基本上也不會有實質的損失所以在要去設什麼農業圈的這方面的補償其實在"},{"start":5317.932,"end":5341.286,"text":"理論上是講不通這第一點第二點就是農地發展權移轉制度其實我是不曉得這個定義是不是可以再把它更清楚因為農地本身它就沒有所謂這個發展權移轉因為除非它是建地我這農地就是做農用的話事實上都還是可以來做使用沒有所謂它的權利的移轉制度以上"},{"start":5345.851,"end":5372.905,"text":"等一下這個剛剛我們次長還在詢問這個什麼農地發展權的他講的是農地發展權沒有定義啊在第三項沒有這個現在就是說這個法案已經出出來了齁那都沒有溝通欸沒去了解嗎不是因為這個臨時提出對沒關係所以這個行政單位要再加強接著請國土署"},{"start":5374.689,"end":5402.756,"text":"感謝委員的指教那其實有關農業權的部分當然我們其實都非常認同農業應該要有合理的一個機制讓農民在生產在生活上有比較受到好的照顧但是其實今天如果放在國土計畫法裡面它涉及到的是全國的土地尤其是農地本身那我們其實在臺灣現行的一個法令制度下"},{"start":5403.536,"end":5429.139,"text":"在過去大法官的相關的解釋以及憲法的解釋裡面大家都是以依據現況那我新訂的法令有剝奪它比現況還要差的這樣一個環境的狀況下那自為所謂的剝奪它的這個這個剝奪或限制它的一個權益那但是其實我們在訂國土計畫的時候我們已經充分考慮了農民在生產生活行為上的必要所以"},{"start":5429.899,"end":5456.533,"text":"彼之過去的區域計畫法我們還增訂了比較大的一個彈性那也過去區域計畫法沒有所謂的鄉村的縣市政府並沒有主動的規劃權我們在這一次呢也透過鄉村第一整體規劃希望能夠讓縣市政府乃至於到鄉村公所他們都有權利來來爭取自己鄉村的這個規劃權就是希望讓他們在現行的狀況下能夠還有對未來的發展的期待"},{"start":5457.173,"end":5484.269,"text":"那農業發展權本身就是在沒有任何規劃狀況下直接賦予它一個預期的價值或預期的利益那這些呢其實在過去在台灣的執行不管我們是看英國、美國他們原本在實行的一個概念其實大概不脫於是類似發展權移轉的概念那發展權移轉在美國它所提到的它是屬於大面積的農地或需要保護的地區"},{"start":5485.29,"end":5499.485,"text":"在去進行的那過去他的這個交易面積其實非常大幣而且確實是為了農業生產那當時呢也認為這樣是一個很好的制度但是其實我們台灣第一個大家的農民的土地的持分的面積其實相對是非常小"},{"start":5500.606,"end":5522.352,"text":"不會像美國那樣可以拿出來交易的動作是幾百公畝甚至上千公畝以上的土地在交易那第二個呢在以台灣這樣土農地比較零星而且比較大家小面積的狀況下去執行的話它就會類似現在都市計畫區所執行的公共設施保留地的容積移轉的概念是一樣"},{"start":5523.192,"end":5547.529,"text":"那過去保留地的移轉概念在民國78年第一次開始提出來以後那其實在當時的文化部跟內政部都有積極的去研擬也有去國外參訪那去了解日本德國的相關制度但是從85年開始第一版的執行古蹟的容積移轉到後來88年去訂定公共設置保留地的容積移轉"},{"start":5548.57,"end":5575.242,"text":"大家在當時也預期有可能會造成土地的交易發展權的交易不正常也就是說對於收購者來講當然是希望價低者得而不是價高者得因為一個都市即便我們限縮到都市計畫區內一個都市計畫區內也有幾百公頃的公設地保留地可以去變成對建商來講對開發商來講我就要找最便宜的結果就會造成有需要錢的人他只好建價出售"},{"start":5576.124,"end":5600.295,"text":"那建價出售往往可能就是兩折、三折那好一點四、五折後來就衍生了收購集團用兩、三折去收購這些榮譽然後再五、六折的價錢再賣給需要的人那這些就會造成在公設保留地後來在執行不佳的狀態下還被監察院還有相關的團體攻擊這樣反而會造成公設保留地地主的權益受損"},{"start":5601.235,"end":5616.083,"text":"那所以到後來102年才又重新啟動全國的都市計畫公共設施的專案通版檢討就是希望徹底來檢討而不是放任讓他去做農機轉的概念那其實今天全國的農地高達74萬到81萬公頃"},{"start":5619.665,"end":5644.632,"text":"這對各縣市來講如果要到跨縣市來講價格、定價跟價格的差異會造成全國普遍性的差異是非常高的我想臺東、屏東、花蓮的農地就不可能跟臺北市、新北市、桃園市的農地相比那價格者低也是未來我想在開放這樣的交易制度一樣會面臨的問題那會不會也造成未來的農民"},{"start":5645.885,"end":5668.508,"text":"或是未來的開發者他就是反正全國土地那麼多我就是繼續收購低價的就好那對於農民來講一旦發展權買走了或是農地買走了他就沒有以後被規劃進來的權利因為發展權一旦定掉你是賣掉了以後你賣掉上面的附加價值以後你也沒有被變更的機會"},{"start":5669.468,"end":5679.591,"text":"那這些就是會造成而且這些整體規劃的地區以後如果在農地上要被做整體規劃這些地方就是零星缺口的位置"},{"start":5680.285,"end":5703.717,"text":"那這些企業都會不管是對於農民的實質的權益或是對整個未來要做整體開發的這個開發的縣市政務來講都會是一個雙向的損失所以我們在目前來講會針對這個部分覺得這是一個非常大的疑慮那因為國土計畫法本身也是一個作用法它不是一個基本法的概念那一旦定了就變成勢必要"},{"start":5704.858,"end":5720.24,"text":"依照這樣的一個做法,我們就要全國性的去調查,而且要邀請各縣市政府相關的去進行,可想而知過去大家的經驗都一而再,再而三會重複提我想這對國路計畫法在這一塊沒有徹底研究清楚之前"},{"start":5720.92,"end":5735.277,"text":"我們是建議不應該貿然的這樣一個提出這樣其實反而會造成未來在農地上又被賦予這樣的一個狀況下對於台灣現在的農地交易來講會產生更混亂的現象那以上是國土署的一個意見"},{"start":5737.042,"end":5738.223,"text":"行政單位有要表達意見,請代專門委員"},{"start":5759.733,"end":5785.094,"text":"主席各位委員大家好主席總處這邊針對那個徐宇甄委員所提到的這個第三項因為第三項委員這邊有提到說設立特別基金那當然前端剛剛那個農業部跟那個國土署署長這邊有說相關的有沒有損失需要劃設農地有沒有損失需要補償這個還需要再評估啦那我們這邊是提到說"},{"start":5785.894,"end":5812.242,"text":"那有關這個前端應該是由內政部你會同農業部再去就有沒有產生損失需以補償先去評估然後對財務的衝擊你也要先去涉算那前端他們涉算完了之後再來決定那因為現在的條我們就馬上提到說要設立特別基金那依照財政紀律法第八條規定設立基金必須具備國庫撥補以外新增氏族的財源"},{"start":5812.762,"end":5832.645,"text":"那因為現在的條文是沒有規劃裁員的這一個部分那如果就冒然的就是寫了設立特別基金這幾個字可能會影響這個違反財政紀律法的規定所以我們是建議說這個條文的第三項即設立特別基金這幾個字我們是建議刪除以上謝謝好謝謝那我們請徐宇甄委員然後林淑芬委員"},{"start":5842.812,"end":5867.807,"text":"謝謝主席針對剛剛農業部那個胡次長提到的說農一跟農五其實都一樣應該不會有什麼特別的損失那這樣的話是不是我們都可以全部都不要畫農一呢就是讓全部都從農二開始畫因為這樣的話就不會對這些農民他們感受到他們會遭受到這樣的一個損失那尤其是剛剛提到的為什麼講說這個農業權的部分的話就是因為事實上我們現在就是限制他要農地農用"},{"start":5869.048,"end":5879.712,"text":"所以說他已經以後沒有辦法開發所以相對的他土地價格可能有一個預期的心理可能會下降同樣的包括農二的部分他可能因為化為農二之後他以後還有變更的機會所以他土地價格會上升這一來一往之間其實對於化為農醫、農地、農用的這些農民們他就"},{"start":5886.075,"end":5891.817,"text":"併案審查委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院內政委員吳琪銘等16人：一、本院"},{"start":5912.205,"end":5928.233,"text":"那當時是因為農業部一直都不提出來所以我們今天提出一個這個農業權的概念就是說希望針對這樣的損失你們可以用什麼樣的方式那我在法律裡也沒有定出說應該一定要怎麼做而是授權主管機關應該來去針對相關的配套輸出做出一個研擬出一個方案"},{"start":5929.654,"end":5943.989,"text":"那其實這個部分我覺得是農業部不該就一開始就講說這個根本不合理或怎麼樣的我覺得應該是要先研究一下瞭解農民真正的需求造成什麼樣的損失才來提出相關的一個配套或大家可以來怎麼研討我覺得這才是重點以上"},{"start":5946.118,"end":5967.481,"text":"好 那請次長回應好 謝謝 謝謝徐委員徐委員所講的非常正確事實上我們農一到農五裡面的農地都是做農用並沒有說農一的這個地 農二或者是農五那個就不做農用其實跟這個沒有關係我們最主要把它劃設農一到農五的原因就是農一的話是25公頃"},{"start":5968.982,"end":5995.336,"text":"集中25公頃 其中有80%的農地是作為農用那如果不符合集中25公頃80%以上做農用的話 那個叫做農用 但是要平地地區那接下來的農山是山坡地 農事是鄉村區 農務是都市計劃區市長這個部分我想大家都知道 資料都有所以我剛剛只是針對說農醫的部分 那這個部分的話因為他以後農醫可以再做變更嗎 可以不做農用嗎"},{"start":5996.316,"end":6018.366,"text":"剛才我所講的就是現在的特定榮譽區裡面的限制榮譽以後也會受到加強性是一樣的但是我們會劃榮譽到榮武是在我們堆疊式的補貼的時候我們會給榮譽更好的補貼是用這種方式來補貼他的就是你問榮譽的補貼是什麼好像大家都還沒有配套錯是不是有啦 我們已經都已經定了啦在"},{"start":6019.366,"end":6024.615,"text":"在榮譽的部分跟榮山它是山坡地山坡地的話我們有山坡地的這個做法那請問補貼是多少補貼的話"},{"start":6027.946,"end":6055.957,"text":"補貼的話其實在融一如果說整體從融一到融五共通的來講的話融一的話可以到14萬5千多這個是一年的話大概有14萬5千多的這個相關您說的是一公頃對 我們的相關政策給他的補貼啦包括稅的優稅制的優惠還有包括我們給他的這個轉座、氣座或者是我們給他的這個對地綠色給互等等這些加起來啊"},{"start":6056.673,"end":6082.947,"text":"這加起來,農一它可以得到的利益是比農二、農三還要高但是它以後就不能作為其他的移轉了是嗎?可以移轉五年內五年內只是檢討嗎?五年一次的檢討嗎?跟委員報告,農一、農二、農三、農四在相關的農業用地只要有提出計畫需求那麼我們就根據計畫需求做審定之後它就可以改變所以我們的署長剛剛有提到的,就是說"},{"start":6083.767,"end":6100.096,"text":"所有的計畫所有的農地它在規劃的時候為什麼我們不同意就是說發射什麼農地發展權是因為你一旦發射農地發展權它被賣掉之後它在未來任何的計畫擬定的過程裡面這塊地都不能被用因為它的權利已經賣出了"},{"start":6101.644,"end":6126.641,"text":"所以他不得變更所以這才是真正判農地死刑你如果用TDR你就是把農地判死刑而在美國的案例裡面他們之所以要用這樣是因為有一群人他就是堅持他要做農所以在美國所謂的農業權指的是我想從事農業的權利你不得干預我而不是說我們要來補助或補貼這是不一樣的概念"},{"start":6127.601,"end":6138.884,"text":"市長我想這個部分當然有不同國家有不同的一個概念的一個陳述但是這個部分我想剛剛我也表達得很清楚了就是說針對這部分我們主要是針對農醫的農地農誘雖然你們剛剛一直講說5年內5年可以提出一次但就不是像現在這樣子"},{"start":6146.806,"end":6151.688,"text":"所以為什麼剛剛講說有一些會可能開始申請可能要做農地一轉就是因為我看不到我現在作為農地農用我將來的未來我只會感受到說我就是會有很大的一個損失所以說為什麼希望說農業部這邊能夠有一個相關的配套措施讓這些農民尤其化作為農醫的農民他們能夠感受到說政府對他們的特別犧牲能夠有特別的補償"},{"start":6170.578,"end":6194.208,"text":"那主要的目的是這樣那相關的配套措施我是覺得到現在其實剛剛講的這個配套措施我們到現在也還沒看到那所謂的一公頃14.5萬到底是什麼樣的詳細的狀況好像也說不清楚而且就是每一個每一公頃找我提出申請就可以14.5萬我相信也不是還有很多的相關的一個問題所以這個部分的話主要是這樣那要不然的話其實對於國土計畫法來說每個縣市我相信大家都會願意來去針對國土計畫法來的"},{"start":6199.87,"end":6208.276,"text":"上路但是目前的問題就是這些問題都還沒有配套出這還沒有解決之前是不是要衝倉促的上路我覺得這是現在真正問題的癥結所在好那謝謝委員的指教我想還是跟委員們做一個說明在目前區計法的狀態之下事實上農地的變更的程序跟權力其實反而比國土計畫更複雜因為你個案變更是要有相關的"},{"start":6226.269,"end":6252.882,"text":"議務或者說有些計劃有些比鄰等等的狀況你如果沒有這些狀況其實你農地就是農地你不能夠做任何的變更使用但是在國土計劃法的狀況之下每個縣市每一段時間就可以進行檢討而且是全部的檢討就跟我們都市計劃通盤檢討是一樣它有發展的需求它有規劃的需求它有未來進一步不同的發展的想像的時候它就可以被拿出來討論拿出來使用而且就現階段來講我們在"},{"start":6255.965,"end":6268.159,"text":"從上一任的農業部陳其仲部長到現在陳進基部長他們都同意農地上產製除銷都可以設立撲破了過去在區計裡面的一些規範區計裡面規範裡面農地還不見得能夠做產製除銷我們現在為了達到綠色經濟的狀態"},{"start":6274.867,"end":6291.668,"text":"許多的小型的農產加工也可以在國土計畫範圍之內我們透過計畫允許在在地的產製儲銷都發展所以農業其實沒有什麼特別犧牲它就是一個產業它是一個發展那至於那個委員提到的相關的農業的補貼我是不是請我們胡次長在那邊"},{"start":6294.675,"end":6321.146,"text":"好 請胡次長是 謝謝因為我們現在龍一到龍五事實上各縣市政府所劃出來總共大概有79萬公頃龍一跟龍二有五十幾萬公頃其實這個是符合目前中央政府對於整個農地的需求那龍一到龍五的話我們現在就是按照剛才跟委員報告過的我們龍一因為它所做的有受到三個限制就是剛剛所講的這個寵物的生命紀念館"},{"start":6321.966,"end":6332.361,"text":"還有這個什麼沙石業還有這個還有另外啊還有這個事業廢棄屋等等這三種限制那榮譽它又是最弱的榮地所以我們以後再"},{"start":6334.154,"end":6355.585,"text":"這分成五類來對於平地這個農藝的補助會比較高因此以後一定會有農民到縣市政府要求說把我劃到農藝因為事實上他們認為可能誤解啦誤解說農藝可能限制比較多那其實剛才所講的這些跟農業無關的這些廢棄物或砂石廠這根本跟一般農民是無關的"},{"start":6355.785,"end":6370.849,"text":"次長這一步法立法到現在已經8年了那給你們8年的時間去跟農民溝通你說他們還有誤解的話那問題在哪裡絕大部分都沒有了因為一開始的時候就為什麼不去溝通呢絕大部分沒有因為有少部分說什麼會不是再來剛剛不是剛剛您提的不是剛剛次長您提到這個問題喔"},{"start":6376.59,"end":6383.579,"text":"不是啊 因為很多人都講說 農醫被放進去就變成農奴嘛所以我們去解釋解釋將近160餐候其實市長我相信喔 如果像你剛剛講的那樣的話對農民有這麼多的好處你覺得農民是頭殼壞掉 為什麼他們要反對"},{"start":6391.89,"end":6392.251,"text":"五年內應該是五年內五年內"},{"start":6409.369,"end":6423.814,"text":"對五年內嘛那你就變說時間上然後對可不可以變更都不知道那我就想嘛如果是這樣的話那剛照次長的講法的話那為了說在如果是農民為了安全起見我就我拜託你幫我化成農二我至少將來還有一個這個這個變更的一個機會但農醫的話"},{"start":6428.135,"end":6443.127,"text":"我剛不是講說判死刑而是覺得農醫既然只能作為農地農業剛我也講了你對於農地的這個價值有可能會被低估再來就是說我們的農二比如說我現在化為農二我可能未來我的這個土地可能可以移轉"},{"start":6443.787,"end":6459.296,"text":"所以我的農地價值會以變高那這樣一來一往之間當然我們的農民都會感受到我辛苦耕種那你現在好你說一公頃14.5萬我現在還不如把這些農地都租給太陽能光電業者一年就有40萬我什麼都不必做我就有40萬"},{"start":6460.316,"end":6486.557,"text":"所以是這樣的一個概念認為說如果真的希望農民來負擔糧食安全那是不是該給他們一些相關的補償讓他們覺得我們作為農民來為了國家負擔糧食安全那是針對國家的一個幫助那所以我們願意我覺得應該是這樣子而不是說好對他們來說都沒有損失那你想農民為什麼要反對為什麼這麼多朝野的立委公同提出要展言其實就是有很大的問題"},{"start":6487.981,"end":6498.352,"text":"好 次長次長 再加強溝通 再加強這個16人選 也有聽到你說農民還有很多的誤解所以沒關係 我們現在聽委員講你如果不會解釋 回去想一想再來解釋解釋了半天人家還聽不懂 這就是你們的問題好 換我講一下"},{"start":6509.463,"end":6512.624,"text":"現在委員所爭執是說 農地要維持農用犧牲他們可是現在沒有國土計劃法 農地還是要農用啊現在區域計劃法的概念 農地可以不農用嗎 不行的欸"},{"start":6525.168,"end":6530.529,"text":"然後農地沒有農用那他可以個案變更次長剛才已經講了,內政部次長剛才講農地的個案變更他綁很多程序要涉及到計劃所以他要涉及到變更權利他是很複雜的所以現在聯邦會農地個案去變更那是有資料的、有特款的、有領略的"},{"start":6545.053,"end":6553.685,"text":"不是一般農民都可以個案變更區域計劃法沒有國土計劃法現在的個案變更都是靠特權有能力的人大財團大產業大特權的人才有能力去個案變更而現在我們"},{"start":6561.616,"end":6569.341,"text":"在地方都趕快陳情,因為我們的鄉親我的選民,三重如舟無骨的很多都來自於雲林他問我一件事,他說委員我給你請講,我的農地在分林喔,他們都說現在去農地賣菜賣賣啊,搞什麼"},{"start":6576.001,"end":6580.464,"text":"農地不能移轉了他說縣政府就是這樣子說我說國土計劃法以後農地一樣可以買賣一樣可以移轉他一樣可以變更一樣可以蓋農舍通通都沒有改變只是他現在不能夠個案變更沒有方便那些特權的大財團的有能力的人個案變更"},{"start":6602.037,"end":6608.84,"text":"但是對一個沒有能力的小農民來講如果未來地方發展需求他計劃變更我們不用靠地權也不用跟外債團現在如果需要整片他變更是整片的土地大家跟進大家都可以認為需要整片大家一起變更而不是有能力的人自己變更自己好看自己唯一的差別就是不能夠個案變更嘛"},{"start":6628.07,"end":6634.773,"text":"所以現在為什麼要放這個假消息假風聲說農地不能賣啊國土計劃法過去以後農地不能賣不能夠移轉這一個假消息是因為即將要有詐騙集團來了我們講農業權什麼是農業權我們有經驗我有經驗我新北市新北市在巴黎台北港這個專區特區的土地重劃裡面"},{"start":6655.2,"end":6665.15,"text":"新北市政府我們因為抗爭那個阿嬤說我堅持我的土地我不要變成專區我不要變成工業區我不要變成住宅區我就是要務農所以大家抗爭很久終於把那個阿嬤的農地保留下來她要務農這個才叫做農業權"},{"start":6678.363,"end":6684.347,"text":"而你們錢客要的不是農業權,是農地移轉權啦我跟你講,農民搞不清楚不能夠買賣了,我今天買給錢客錢客廉價收購大量的土地然後打折,大家賺這個機會趕快把農民賠命的土地趕快買起來"},{"start":6698.815,"end":6699.878,"text":"然後呢假讓大家不知道資訊不對等然後專業能力不對等都收起了他再去大炒地皮大賺特賺"},{"start":6709.882,"end":6722.291,"text":"這個是有陰謀的 這個裡面不要假借農民也不要假借農業權三個字這個是草土地的農地移轉權的制度而今天藉由框騙、藉由資訊不對等詐騙農民而今天我要再跟大家講國土計劃法施行以後可以蓋農舍、可以買賣、可以移轉、可以變耕"},{"start":6733.098,"end":6742.686,"text":"不用再讓大財團有能力的人只有他們有個案變更的能力啦所以現在在那裡空中為大便然後在那裡假裝包裝了一個農業權的概念什麼農地判死刑那根本不是那樣子這是詐騙地方政府都講不實剛才還一直在講不能移轉、不能買賣胡說八道、睜眼說瞎話真的是詐騙農民"},{"start":6761.084,"end":6777.011,"text":"好 那是不是我們第32條之一我們也保留好 那審查到這邊我們協商的結論國土計劃法修正草案第7條、第8條、第23條增訂的第32條之一、第35條、第40條、第45條均保留送院長協商好 我們今天開會到這邊現在散會 謝謝"},{"start":6790.939,"end":6795.245,"text":"併農民在詐騙土地的要收到土地要詐騙土地的"}]}},{"id":"158429","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158429","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da54c01e613763ebc63456f4f17f81126f088c03504564e739d2a91ba8bd4818235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:08:03 - 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件目前有沒有再去做相關了解"},{"start":248.547,"end":262.737,"text":"我自己個人都有調出來詳細看過那因為他有一些已經告一個段落而且有調查結果而且有些有處處分了那除非有什麼新的事證我們當然會根據情況再做判斷"},{"start":263.618,"end":291.85,"text":"但你不是現在講是說也有這重啟有一些的這大林案的調查是調查委員會嗎?對,就是我上任之後在立法院外交國防委員會大家提出關心的幾個案子我們也都有展開調查,有些已經有初步的調查結果所以你也歡迎如果說有任何新事證也要在跟部裡面提出,是不是?對同仁如果說有提出的話你都會主動調查?一定的好,謝謝,謝謝洪孟凱委員,各位請回"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":453,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（12時3分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：勞動部霸凌案之後，行政院指示公務部門都要嚴辦各種霸凌事件，其中外交部從過去到現在也有一些相關爭議。本席最近從新聞上看到投書，把外交部從過去到現在一些爭議事件列出來。像「外交部的霸凌事件豈能忘記」，這位投書者之前還是外交部的官員啊！他的投書裡面特別提到幾件事情。我想，我們對於霸凌零容忍，從過去到現在，都不會因為時間流失就讓真相石沉大海嘛！部長也應該有這樣的認知跟面對的勇氣吧？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。第一起是2018年蘇啟誠處長的輕生事件，到現在六年多，事實真相到底為何？過去大家會覺得大阪辦事處處長其實也很努力、盡忠職守，但是那時候也有網軍事件。第二，2023年，駐巴西聖保羅辦事處的王組長疑似被其館長霸凌輕生，該館長事後雖然被監察院彈劾，但是全案的事實真相外界仍未明。還有第三件，就是晶片護照改版事件，部長在事實真相未明之下，就把相關人員給調職。就這個部分，我想請教林佳龍部長，既然我們看到勞動部有這樣的霸凌事件，而且沒有調查還不知道，甚至勞動部第一次調查還是想粉飾太平的調查，直到換了部長、新任部長上任重啟調查之後才水落石出，也還往生者一個交代。一樣，對於前述3個案件，外交部內部有沒有指示？是不是能夠重啟調查，至少給國人一個清楚、明白的真相、讓國人了解當時時空環境背景底下毋枉毋縱？林部長，你的看法呢？"],["林部長佳龍：這3個案子中，我想有些已經進入司法程序或監察院調查程序，如果有什麼新的事證，我們當然也會很重視，作為是否要再……"],["洪委員孟楷：一個部分是新的事證，另一個部分是當初有沒有針對底下同仁做訪談、做了解，以及把整個事件給勾勒出來？"],["林部長佳龍：有，我上任之後，其實在7月針對……不管是霸凌、性騷這些管理相關問題全面檢討之後，訂定了改善辦法。以您提到的第三個案子，我也調出來看過。基本上，我們都要進行調查，而且對當事人也要訪談，尤其是這幾天立法院關切的幾個案子，我們也都有很詳細的處理，包括調查委員會、有外聘委員，依照……"],["洪委員孟楷：也都有啟動是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：啊？"],["洪委員孟楷：也都啟動調查委員會跟外聘委員？"],["林部長佳龍：有，有些有提出檢舉，有些沒有被檢舉、而是來自委員的質詢，但我們都一樣重視。有則改之、要課責，但如果有一些是誤會，或者當事人本身能夠面對，我們會視情節到什麼程度處理。畢竟我們在講，有些時候是比較廣泛地講，例如管理上涉及個人領導風格等各種情況，我們也要去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。","部長，我時間有限，這3起案件當時都見報，也算是媒體喧然一時的事件，那麼對於這3起案件，目前有沒有再去做相關了解？"],["林部長佳龍：我自己個人都有調出來詳細看過，有些已經告一段落、有調查結果，而且有些做處分了。除非有什麼新的事證，那我們當然會根據情況再做判斷。"],["洪委員孟楷：但你不是講也針對一些霸凌案重啟調查委員會嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：對……"],["洪委員孟楷：這3案都沒有包含在裡面？"],["林部長佳龍：就是我上任之後，針對在立法院外交及國防委員會大家提出關心的幾個案子，我們也都有展開調查，有些已經有初步調查結果。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以你也歡迎如果有任何新事證要再跟部裡面提出，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果同仁提出的話，你都會主動調查？"],["林部長佳龍：一定的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員，葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158427","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158427","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da3962283a284a2aee3456f4f17f81126f088c03504564e7394a16c5dc7554018e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"11:55:46 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院函請審議。七、審查行政院函請審議。"},{"start":139.801,"end":162.308,"text":"就是管處的這些大使或代表是就是來自於多元的社會的一個背景特別是有一些專業我想這個對總和外交對臺灣要走出去除了傳統的外交關係以外我們也是要結合所有包括我們的經濟、文化各種國力"},{"start":162.628,"end":163.609,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":182.326,"end":206.462,"text":"更大的一個權限但是當然臺灣有這樣一個比例的規定讓我們的外交系統可以多元化但是我現在還是想要請教部長一下就是像葡萄牙、西班牙這些到現在還在空缺而且現在外交同仁其實他們都是很認真堅持本分從基層開始為國家開始拚外交那是不是部長在用人方面為財事用是不是要讓一些專業的為主的來調動這些任職的考量呢?"},{"start":211.144,"end":225.092,"text":"對,像委員講的,這幾個地方都在作業中,會,應該最近期啊,就會...那有沒有確定人選呢?那部長可以公布一下嗎?有些在作業中了,嘿。所以還沒有嗎?因為這個是已經太久了啦。有內定啦。有內定喔?嘿。是部長內定的嗎?"},{"start":230.302,"end":256.32,"text":"當然這個要跟總統報告也要經過行政院的程序因為我是希望說不要老是都是用單純任用這些政黨就是的智庫人員還是希望讓那些專業的外交人員可以補足這個有啦像委員吼我們這些司處長很優秀很多都外派我只是不好意思請他們舉手不過劉永健吶我們公眾會我們發言人他明天就要啟程到波蘭"},{"start":258.462,"end":264.007,"text":"那接下來的話我有請法務部次長還有警政署副署長。那部長你也請留步一下。截至7月底我國和其他國已經簽訂司法互助的條約的國家,包含我們今天審查的簽署國總共有13個國簽署了司法互助的條約。"},{"start":283.804,"end":288.509,"text":"但是從105年蔡英文總統上任後不是就積極推行新南向政策嗎?但是本席我現在看了十三國中只有越南和菲律賓那請問外交部部長還有法務部的次長那其他新南向國家呢?是我們跟他們關係不好嗎?還是有沒有什麼中共的因素呢?而且現在詐騙我看現在詐騙非常的猖獗國人被騙到緬甸"},{"start":307.748,"end":324.464,"text":"泰國和柬埔寨這些地方,然後其實他們又再到那邊去詐騙其他外國人,影響了臺灣的國際的關係,尤其是這些地方,那我們是不是更需要要去跟他們簽一些司法互助呢?是不是要更努力呢?對,要更努力。"},{"start":327.833,"end":353.3,"text":"所以部長也是贊成說那我們就是要是新南向的政策然後要去跟他們多因為隨著我們跟新南向國家的來往這麼樣的頻密那不管是人或是經貿的關係那我們事實上除了外交部之外法務部、調查局或者是我們內政部、警政署其實也是都有派外那這樣最近幾個例子都"},{"start":354.56,"end":355.82,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":384.33,"end":385.853,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":414,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時55分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["林委員憶君：部長你好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：首先我想請問你，你知道103年5月的時候，馬英九總統的時代，因為民進黨立委反映針對駐外外交領事人員任用條例第三條條文規定，除了駐外機構館長外之員額，合計數都不能超過15%，後來有修法調降至10%，而蔡英文執政的時候卻在106年12月修法，重新恢復到不得超過15%。雖然外交部有這樣任用條例的規定辦理，其實駐外機構館長外的員額合計數都並沒有超過法定的上限，但我還是想要請教部長一下，就是有關外交部圖利安插自己人的用才標準，像駐法代表處大使在他的經歷中都沒有外交或國際事務相關；還有現任駐美國公使銜副代表，同樣也沒有外交歷練和幕僚的經歷；像現在的駐德代表謝志偉；還有現任的駐日代表李逸洋，這些都沒有受過外交公務的培育、訓練。請問部長，這些都是好人選嗎？外交部任用政務官是用什麼標準和原則？而且最近荷蘭代表處主任調回禮賓司擔任司長，這個職位懸缺，而且葡萄牙、西班牙還有我國駐外單位的主管職現在也是空缺，請問部長，為什麼到現在還遇缺不補？還是你在等待哪一個特定人士嗎？外交部任用政務官是用什麼標準和原則，可以請部長講一下嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員。確實剛剛委員提到這幾位大使或代表，或者是公使副代表，應該都是相當優秀的人才，而且表現也很好，有一定比例讓我們館處的這些大使或代表是來自於多元社會的背景，特別是有一些專業，我想這個對總合外交，對臺灣要走出去，除了傳統的外交關係以外，我們也是要結合所有包括我們的經濟、文化等各種國力，所以我覺得適當的比例是好的，至於每個個人在任用的時候是不是適才適所，我們當然都會不斷地來檢視，像最近美國，大家也看到川普總統對於一些大使的任用，他有更大的一個權限，當然臺灣有這樣一個比例的規定，讓我們的外交系統可以多元化的取才。"],["林委員憶君：但是我現在還是想要請教部長一下，像葡萄牙、西班牙這些職位到現在還是空缺，而且現在外交同仁他們都是很認真、堅持本分，從基層開始為國家拚外交，部長在用人方面是不是唯才是用？是不是要以專業為主來作為調動這些任職的考量呢？"],["林部長佳龍：對，像委員講的這幾個地方都在作業中，應該近期就會……"],["林委員憶君：有沒有確定人選？部長可以公布一下嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：有些在作業中了。"],["林委員憶君：還沒有嗎？因為這個已經太久了。"],["林部長佳龍：有內定啦。"],["林委員憶君：有內定？"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["林委員憶君：是部長內定的嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：當然這個要跟總統報告，也要經過行政院的程序。"],["林委員憶君：我希望不要老是都是單純任用這些政黨的智庫人員，還是希望讓那些專業的外交人員可以補足這個空缺，畢竟外交很重要啊！"],["林部長佳龍：有啦，委員，我們這些司處長很優秀，很多都會外派，我只是不好意思請他們舉手。像是劉永健，也就是公眾會發言人明天就要啟程到波蘭了。"],["林委員憶君：好。","接下來有請法務部次長還有警政署副署長，部長也請留步。","截至7月底為止，我國和其他國家已簽訂司法互助條約者，包含今天審查的簽署國，總共與13國簽署了司法互助條約。但是從民國105年蔡英文總統上任後不是就積極推行新南向政策嗎？在本席看到的現有13國中，卻只有越南和菲律賓。請問外交部部長還有法務部次長，其他新南向國家呢？是我們跟他們關係不好嗎？還是有沒有什麼中共的因素呢？而且我看現在詐騙非常地猖獗，國人被騙到緬甸、泰國，還有柬埔寨這些地方，其實他們到了那邊又詐騙其他外國人，影響臺灣的國際關係，尤其是跟這些地方。那我們是不是更需要跟他們簽一些司法互助條約呢？是不是要更努力呢？"],["林部長佳龍：對，要更努力。"],["林委員憶君：所以部長也贊成秉持新南向政策，要去跟他們簽？"],["林部長佳龍：隨著我國與新南向國家來往這麼的頻密，不管是人或經貿的關係，事實上除了外交部之外，法務部調查局或內政部警政署也都有派外。最近有幾個很好的例子，比如說印尼偵破詐騙集團之後，涉案者幾乎全部都能遣返到臺灣……"],["林委員憶君：但是我看我們只有越南跟菲律賓簽約啊！"],["林部長佳龍：另外，透過泰國也一樣，有很多重要罪犯被遣返。"],["林委員憶君：部長，但以我現在看到的，我們只跟越南和菲律賓有簽署啊！"],["林部長佳龍：是，但除了簽訂所謂的司法互助協定之外，也有其他方式嘛！包括備忘錄、包括透過警政合作等各種方式啊！因為這是互利的啦！司法互助是互惠的，最主要是大家要共同打擊犯罪，況且現在跨境犯罪又愈來愈多。"],["林委員憶君：好啦！我還是希望要再努力一下喔！"],["林部長佳龍：對，要努力，如果能夠簽訂司法互助協定，是有更大的保障嘛！"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君召委。部長，我剛剛還心想你怎麼沒推薦我駐外、問半天都沒問到我。"],["林部長佳龍：國會議員駐外的很多欸！"],["主席：對啊！我個人可以接受西班牙，部長。","接下來進行詢答的委員，黃國昌委員。黃國昌委員、黃國昌委員不在。","接下來進行詢答的委員，洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158426","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158426","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da237225cd9c2dfae73456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda517e2bac01cfa5d53fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:48:24 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output、國人出訪或者是來臺旅客的國別統計當中這些前幾名的國家裡頭我們確實都還有要努力積極去洽簽司法互助的國家"},{"start":118.572,"end":133.377,"text":"審議。我特別又針對我們臺灣的對內外投資的主要國家以及進出口貿易的主要國家畢竟商務上的一些案件發生也非常多所以說優先爭取簽訂刑事司法互助的對象呢其實從剛剛的國人的出訪或來訪以及我們的商務的往來其實都很清楚的訂定了一個優先"},{"start":145.54,"end":146.76,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":164.787,"end":166.168,"text":"司法及國防、司法及法制委員會 函請審議。二、審查行政院函請審議。三、審查行政院函請審議。二、審查行政院函請審議。"},{"start":185.795,"end":199.393,"text":"我過去從文化部門去推文化外交,但是外交部絕對需要強強聯手,尤其Team Taiwan,Team Taiwan被世界看見的時候,文化就是最好的一個有效的工具。」下一頁。"},{"start":200.766,"end":226.426,"text":"Unesco世界遺產,不管是物質或非物質的,臺灣所定加入Unesco或其相關的國際組織,為了讓臺灣的遺產也成為世界的遺產,我分別在上一屆,針對不同的文化部長,也針對不同的行政院院長,從陳建仁到卓榮泰,都say yes。」那我把進度跟您報告。好,下一頁。"},{"start":228.021,"end":246.813,"text":"身列世界文化遺產分有形文資跟無形文資,這個大家很清楚,過去我們著墨比較多在有形文資,事實上無形文資是現在UNESCO在世界各國推動世界文化遺產最主力的,也就是軟大於硬,而不是過去都是有形的文資。"},{"start":248.536,"end":271.269,"text":"所以說呢在我的催生跟要求之下曾經一度停擺的有形文化資產的世界遺產推動會我們終於重組了我謝謝李永德部長、史哲部長到現在的李遠部長所以在這個有形文字的世界遺產推動會重啟之後我們開了兩次會我很快的跟部長報告重要的結論也就是將"},{"start":274.719,"end":290.199,"text":"努力加入UNESCO或是其相關的周邊組織,要列為我國外交的重要工作,就如同我們過去WHO、WHA國際刑警組織,我們要把UNESCO教科文的力量作為重點的這個target。"},{"start":291.32,"end":317.29,"text":"然後呢我們要建立跨部會的機制因為以前只有文化部自己很辛苦他需要外交部的助力而且不只外交部要跨部會第三個要擴大產官學研我們的學界要善用他們的力量確實透過國際的論壇我們在跟世界的有形無形的文化資產有很多的互動要給予資源舉辦活動或者是送人出去參加國際的Foreign Conference"},{"start":317.91,"end":326.987,"text":"第四、很具體的,我們針對深烈世界文化影響,我們訂定共同訂定了以臺灣的阿里山森林鐵路作為一個最有利的"},{"start":328.075,"end":355.105,"text":"必其功於一役。」過去我們有18個世界遺產的潛力點,我們現在把它聚焦在阿里山領帖。所以我,我知道您非常忙,我跟您報告。所以這是我們重點的部分在世界文化遺產的委員會跨部會組成產官學研的第一個大的結論。好,下一頁,下一頁。非物質,我也非常感謝在我要求之後,中央文化部主責針對非物質文化遺產也組成了推動會。"},{"start":357.545,"end":381.077,"text":"剛剛講的阿里山靈鐵那個是有形文化遺產現在無形文化遺產也跟您報告我們優先去參與ICTM就是國際傳統音樂學會讓臺灣的音樂可以打頭風第二個一樣要建立跨部會以及地方政府的溝通平台第三個優先推動的項目是無形文化遺產的紙紮跟塞夏族的矮靈祭"},{"start":386.926,"end":406.393,"text":"第四、飲食文化會是臺灣邁向世界文化遺產很有力的一個有賣點的潛力項目。我今天用這個時間我跟您報告下一頁,下一頁,這是我努力到現在,跨部會集合了、集結了"},{"start":407.458,"end":421.993,"text":"文化部繼續再推需要外交部強強聯手還有跨部會跟地方政府我借用這個寶貴的時間拋出來下個會期或在審預算我都會努力的就交於您OK嗎"},{"start":425.993,"end":438.925,"text":"我跟委員簡單講我已經有跟李遠部長在談文化外交兩個部我們應該來推動成立一個工作小組因為剛剛委員提到我們會做重點因為我本身也擔任過行政院新聞局長"},{"start":439.725,"end":440.385,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":373,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時40分）謝謝主席，有請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：來，部長請。"],["吳委員思瑤：然後世杰次長。"],["主席：來，次長。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，大家辛苦。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：我就接著剛剛定宇召委所說的，依據國際刑事司法互助法，我們來討論今天新增的3個簽訂。下一頁，我去整理了現在臺灣與12個國家所簽訂的刑事司法互助協定、條約，我說明在不同的執政時期大家簽訂的成果，在陳水扁總統的時候我們是和1國簽了，應該是美國；在馬英九總統的時候，我們跟菲律賓、南非2個國家簽訂了；在蔡英文總統任內，其實是6加3，包括波蘭、諾魯、貝里斯、斯洛伐克、聖文森、帛琉，然後再加上今天我們在這裡要完成程序的，所以是6加3。坦白講，我都是在隔壁的司法及法制委員會，我很少有機會來外交及國防委員會，我覺得非常好，我可以更進一步的了解我們的司法互助，尤其現在跨境的犯罪這麼多，在打詐四法通過之後，更多是要進行詐騙集團國際型犯罪的偵辦。事實會說話，這幾年民進黨執政，我們確實非常的努力，我大為肯定。下一頁，順著剛剛定宇召委所說的，他所做的表格其實跟我的這一頁相仿，就是不管是input、output，國人出訪或者是來臺旅客的國別統計，在這前幾名的國家裡頭，確實都還有我們要努力積極去洽簽司法互助的國家。下一頁，我特別又針對我們臺灣對內外投資的主要國家，以及進出口貿易的主要國家，畢竟也發生非常多商務上的案件，所以是優先爭取簽訂刑事司法互助的對象，從剛剛講的國人出訪或他國旅客來訪，以及我們之間商務的往來，其實都很清楚地訂定了一個優先的、你們可能要去鎖定的target。我剛剛有聽世杰次長說，確實我們可能跟日本、韓國的互動最多，也因為距離比較近，所以已經有先簽了備忘錄，先簽了MOU。一樣的，我就會等待你們針對未來積極再去強化推動的一個完整的報告，好嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["吳委員思瑤：對於今天這3案，我肯定大家，也希望未來我們可以來做更多，好嗎？好，這個部分我就提供給你們。","好，今天難得有機會佳龍部長在這裡，我想針對我長期關心的文化外交很快地給您提示，我過去從文化部門去推文化外交，但是外交部絕對需要強強聯手，尤其是Team Taiwan被世界看見的時候，文化就是一個最好的有效工具。下一頁，UNESCO世界遺產，不管是物質或非物質的，臺灣鎖定加入UNESCO或者相關的國際組織，為了讓臺灣的遺產也成為世界的遺產，我分別在上一屆針對不同的文化部長，也針對不同的行政院院長，從陳建仁到卓榮泰都say Yes，我把進度跟您報告。下一頁，申列世界文化遺產分有形文資跟無形文資，這個大家很清楚，過去我們著墨比較多的是有形文資，事實上，現在無形文資是UNESCO在世界各國推動世界文化遺產最主力的，也就是軟大於硬，而不是像過去都是有形的文資。好，下一頁，所以在我的催生跟要求之下，曾經一度停擺的有形文化資產的世界遺產推動會，我們終於重組了，我謝謝李永得部長、史哲部長到現在的李遠部長，在這個有形文資的世界遺產推動會重啟之後，我們開了兩次會，我很快地跟部長報告重要的結論，也就是要將努力加入UNESCO或是其相關的周邊組織列為我國外交的重要工作，就如同我們過去努力推動加入WHO、WHA、國際刑警組織，我們要把UNESCO教科文的力量作為重點的target。然後我們要建立跨部會的機制，因為以前只有文化部自己做得很辛苦，它需要外交部的助力，而且不只外交部，而且要跨部會。","第三個是要擴大產官學研蒐集資訊，我們的學界要善用他們的力量，確實透過國際的論壇讓我們跟世界有形、無形的文化資產有很多的互動，要給予資源舉辦活動，或者是送人出去參加國際的forum、conference。第四，很具體的，我們針對申列世界文化遺產共同訂定了以臺灣的阿里山森林鐵路作為一個最有力的，要畢其功於一役，過去我們有18個世界遺產的潛力點，我們現在把它聚焦在阿里山林鐵。我知道您非常忙，我跟您報告，這是我們重點的部分，就是在世界文化遺產的委員會，跨部會組成產官學研的第一個大的結論。","好，關於非物質，我也非常感謝，在我要求之後，中央文化部主責，針對非物質文化遺產也組成了推動會，剛剛講的阿里山林鐵是有形文化遺產，現在對無形文化遺產也跟您報告，我們優先去參與ICTM也就是國際傳統音樂學會，讓臺灣的音樂可以打頭鋒；第二個，一樣要建立跨部會以及地方政府的溝通平臺；第三個要優先推動的項目是無形文化遺產的紙紮跟賽夏族的矮靈祭；第四個，飲食文化會是臺灣邁向世界文化遺產一個很有利、有賣點的潛力項目。我今天用這個時間跟您報告，就是我努力到現在，跨部會集結了，文化部繼續在推，需要外交部強強聯手，還有跨部會跟地方政府，我借用這個寶貴的時間拋出來，下個會期或在審預算的時候，我都會努力的就教於您，OK嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：絕對OK，我跟委員簡單講，我已經有跟李遠部長在談，就是我們文化、外交兩個部應該來推動成立一個工作小組，因為剛剛委員提到了，我們會作為重點。我本身也擔任過行政院新聞局長，後來到交通部，交通部也負責觀光，然後現在到外交部，剛好可以把委員關心的一起串聯起來，我們會邀請委員來指導。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，所以您是key person，我需要有具體的進度，未來再做探討，好，謝謝。"],["主席：吳思瑤委員，歡迎下個會期來我們委員會，歡迎。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝主席的邀請。"],["主席：下一個進行詢答的委員是徐巧芯委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158424","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158424","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da669cdf0d372f8da73456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda51746decef9d92b3ed25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"11:33:23 - 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處長"},{"start":219.614,"end":245.205,"text":"我們簽訂這些刑事司法互助之後因為現在有一些犯罪是跨境的特別是網路的犯罪那網路的犯罪可能到一般的毀謗高到金融詐騙等等簽訂這個司法互助之後對我們警政署執行跨越國境的網路的他的IP跳接VPN的在執行上有什麼幫助"},{"start":246.721,"end":261.813,"text":"當然司法互助的作用當然是比較大那另外我們警政署跟其他的國家也另外會跟這些國家警察對警察會簽訂備忘錄跟合作協定現在有一些IP他是跳來跳去的羅馬尼亞哪裡都跳到臺灣來有的是詐騙"},{"start":265.496,"end":279.452,"text":"有的可能是對個人的毀謗等等那有時候我們以前講境外的我們沒辦法處理我們可以理解也許在中國的比較難處理但其他國家如果有這樣的合作方案我倒建議警政署應該讓受害者知道說我讓人害啊"},{"start":280.373,"end":283.137,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":297.375,"end":319.133,"text":"各國簽訂司法互助協定的國家,今天會增加吐瓦魯、聖露西亞等等。但是我另外右邊這個表示,我們國人經常訪問的前十大國家,不管是軍、商、房、旅遊或者去讀書等等,很多都還是否,像日本還是否。"},{"start":319.994,"end":326.178,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":343.241,"end":368.127,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛所提到這個國家裡面,那我們今天第二局的報告也有提到在簽訂,當然我們會盡力,全力都去掐簽正式的這個司法互助協定但是呢,在協定之前,我們其實也已經跟日本、韓國都已經推動完整備忘錄的這個簽訂所以我們如果有通緝犯,現在在日本、韓國,我們是有辦法引渡回來的嗎?"},{"start":368.527,"end":371.669,"text":"我們就是透過這個司法互助的請求在互換原則底下"},{"start":377.199,"end":382.9,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖"},{"start":408.325,"end":408.674,"text":"謝謝王定一委"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":318,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（11時33分）好，謝謝主席。麻煩外交部長、法務部次長，以及警政署副署長。"],["主席：請部長、次長、副署長。"],["王委員定宇：時間有限，幾個問題就教三位。第一個，剛才外交部長提到一個案例，有一位西班牙的性犯罪者在臺灣，前一段時間媒體也報得很大，我剛才聽到我們是經由跟德國的合作，由德國來處理這個遣送引渡的問題嘛。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["王委員定宇：我這樣理解，沒有錯嘛。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["王委員定宇：我請教三位，我們今天如果跟德國的刑事司法互助完備了以後，將來跟歐盟的刑事司法互助能夠採取這種嫁接的間接方式來執行嗎？因為歐盟他們內部有歐盟申根區的法律，也許我們很難跟某些國家簽署，但我們現在如果跟德國簽署了，透過這個方式，有沒有可能去執行相關的司法互助？這個是部長還是法務部可以回答？來，黃次長。"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，因為我們基本上簽的都還是雙邊的協定，當然這還是要看……因為剛剛我在報告的過程中有提到，其實司法互助基本上還是偵查、審判的作為，所以還是要依照相關的國家有沒有提出這個請求，所以如果在歐盟內部……"],["王委員定宇：不是，你在講的是條文嘛，這是bilateral，然後用法律的架構嘛。"],["黃次長世杰：對。"],["王委員定宇：但是我剛才聽到的是西班牙這個案例，當然細節不了解，我的意思是說，因為歐盟是一個高度統合的區域，臺灣要一國一國來簽司法互助，顯然也有一些困難，時間要花很久。"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["王委員定宇：如果這個模式對打擊犯罪或保障我們的受害人有所幫助的話，這個模式倒不失為一個方式，也許藉由已經簽署協定的特定國家，雙方有個默契，當然不是每個案子嘛，有些比較重要的案子可以透過這樣子間接、嫁接的方式來處理歐盟這塊，可能或不可能？"],["黃次長世杰：在個案上如果德國或是我們有洽簽的國家，以及有這個需求的歐盟其他國家，他們有這個意願的話，我們當然就是有可能可以透過這個模式來處理，但是還是要個案上去看這個國家的意願。"],["王委員定宇：好啦，這是一個方法，但不見得每次都走得通，這樣講比較對嘛。"],["黃次長世杰：對，是。"],["王委員定宇：另外，你剛才有提到，因為我們跟外國簽訂的司法互助，跟中國的共打是其中一項嘛。"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["王委員定宇：到今天為止，到今年為止，這個共打有沒有在執行？"],["黃次長世杰：我請司長來說明目前的近況。"],["王委員定宇：來，儘快。"],["黃次長世杰：好。"],["孟司長玉梅：有，這個仍然繼續執行中。"],["王委員定宇：今年執行了幾個案例？"],["孟司長玉梅：今年因為我們跟大陸地區司法互助的項目非常地多，包含了文書送達、調查取證、人身自由通報等等，很多。"],["王委員定宇：當然，在共打範圍內，第一個，我的問題是雙向都有在執行，還是單向執行？"],["孟司長玉梅：基本上是雙向執行。"],["王委員定宇：雙向的，那案量給我一個大概的數字，不用精準，我不是要考你啦，大概量是多少？"],["孟司長玉梅：是，截至目前為止，我看到的……"],["王委員定宇：今年。"],["孟司長玉梅：報告委員，我這邊看到的數字應該是三千多件。"],["王委員定宇：今年就三千多件？"],["孟司長玉梅：是。"],["王委員定宇：那量相當大喔！"],["孟司長玉梅：是，但是不是容我們回去再細查這個數字？"],["王委員定宇：沒關係，我知道說這表示這個共打還有在執行，而且是雙向的，量也達到三千多了，所以有些人說都沒有在執行，現在都停掉了，其實這個詮釋上也跟現況不符。"],["孟司長玉梅：是，不符。"],["王委員定宇：我要請教警政署副署長，我們簽訂這些刑事司法互助之後，因為現在有一些犯罪是跨境的，特別是網路的犯罪，網路犯罪可能從一般的誹謗，高到金融詐騙等等，簽訂這個司法互助之後，對我們警政署執行跨越國境的、網路的、他的IP跳接VPN的，在執行上有什麼幫助？"],["李副署長政曉：當然，司法互助的作用是比較大。此外，我們警政署也另外跟其他國家簽訂警察對警察的備忘錄跟合作協定，目前我們跟世界……"],["王委員定宇：對，因為現在有一些IP是跳來跳去的，從羅馬尼亞、哪裡都跳到臺灣來。"],["李副署長政曉：對，所以上次……"],["王委員定宇：有的是詐騙，有的可能是對個人的誹謗等等。"],["李副署長政曉：對。"],["王委員定宇：以前有時候你們講境外的你們沒辦法處理，我們可以理解，也許在中國的比較難處理，但其他國家如果有這樣的合作方案，我倒建議警政署應該讓受害者知道，他被人家害了，不會遇到因為他在國外就一籌莫展，政府還是存在，政府還是會做事的，所以是可以執行的，對不對？"],["李副署長政曉：對。"],["王委員定宇：OK，好，警政署先請回。我最後請教外交部跟法務部。我這邊有一個表，你們可以看到，有跟我們國家簽訂司法互助協定的國家在左側這邊，今天會增加吐瓦魯、聖露西亞等等，但是我另外右邊這個表是我們國人經常訪問的前十大國家，不管是經商、旅遊或者去讀書等等，很多都還是「否」，像日本還是「否」，韓國也是沒有，或者澳洲、澳大利亞也是沒有。請教兩位，我們目前對於臺灣經常往來的國家，不管是經商、旅遊、求學，新加坡也很密切，新加坡跟我們有FTA，這些國家我們有沒有什麼樣的推動計畫，去簽訂司法互助？法務部。"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，剛剛所提到的國家裡面，我們今天調查局的報告也有提到，在簽訂……當然，我們會盡力、全力都去洽簽正式的司法互助協定，但是在協定之前，我們其實跟日本、韓國都已經完成備忘錄的簽訂，所以我們現在個案的……"],["王委員定宇：所以我們如果有通緝犯現在在日本、韓國，我們是有辦法引渡回來的嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：我們就是透過這個司法互助的請求，在互惠原則底下……"],["王委員定宇：之前澳洲前任駐臺代表不是有要提供我們刑事互助，怎麼後來就沒有了？"],["黃次長世杰：澳洲的部分，是不是請外交部說明？"],["王委員定宇：這樣好了，因為時間到了，我建議兩位，由外交部來出一個報告，就是有關目前國人常去的國家，求學、旅遊、經商目前的狀態，所謂目前的狀態是可能現在沒有簽，那目前可以執行到什麼程度？第二個就是你們現在洽簽的進度，我不會要求一蹴可幾，有時候要10年、5年都不一定，請你們做一個完整的報告給本委員會，好不好？"],["黃次長世杰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員。"],["主席（王委員定宇）：現在進行詢答的委員是吳思瑤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158423","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158423","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857dac15eda01372e2f7e3456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda517c7b66ba030a8f37c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"11:26:29 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這些相關證明，甚至是大學或獨立學院的那些語文、翻譯系等，如果他有這個資格的話，這個部分我們都會一併審認，非常謝謝委員關心，我們也是很重視這一塊，如果這邊翻譯不確實的話，其實對於當事人權益會有很大的侵害，所以我們在翻譯這邊的訓練上都有在加強。"],["沈委員伯洋：OK。"],["黃法官湘瑩：在篩選上，我們都會注意他相關的資格。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，因為我們有放在這邊，就是請一些更專業的人士當考官，這可能是一個方式。另外一個就是卷證內容，起訴書……起訴書今天很敏感，就是說不管今天是起訴書、一審判決書，因為這些不在通譯的範圍之內，譬如說他是在審判前會收到這些東西，他有沒有辦法好好地閱讀，當然我們是希望說他自己有一些律師，但他不一定有相關的人可以幫助他，所以要怎麼樣讓他可以比較順暢地走完這整個司法的程序，這個會影響到我們之後視訊相關的，就是我們後面講到的，我有看到視訊訊問、U會議、微軟TEAMS，我有看到這一些。"],["黃法官湘瑩：對。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以希望能夠持續地加強原來的作為，這樣的話我們簽這個也才會有意義。"],["黃法官湘瑩：是，謝謝委員關心這件事。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為時間因素，我先問到這邊，謝謝。"],["黃法官湘瑩：謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員冠廷代）：好，謝謝。我們請王定宇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158422","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158422","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da1a639aac83172e253456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda517183e890e354bbf0e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"11:19:03 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«中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約》案。"},{"start":213.151,"end":214.192,"text":"函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事"},{"start":236.474,"end":246.885,"text":"因為WHO是他點名過而且他是第一任的時候也就是說要退出後來沒有完成整個程序那我們密切觀察因為我們不是WHA這個大會的這個會員國"},{"start":251.59,"end":266.229,"text":"不過我們也是積極在爭取參加可是如果有其他的世界衛生組織要成立以美國為主那我們也是理念相近我們也期待我們臺灣能夠一起來推動成立跟參與"},{"start":267.771,"end":268.652,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":285.894,"end":293.316,"text":"函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。"},{"start":312.522,"end":315.832,"text":"國際上面的論述的方式是不是要隨之改變?你怎麼看?"},{"start":317.786,"end":340.663,"text":"我想不管是臺海或俄烏戰爭之間是互相影響那我們對裡面相近國家被侵略我們當然是會表達支持可是同樣的臺海因為這些安全的問題那當然有關臺灣的生存跟發展所以我們自己要強化這個國防也要跟美國加強合作"},{"start":347.187,"end":370.107,"text":"這一個我們必須要承擔起臺灣應該承擔這個保衛自己的一個責任那當然也跟美國基於臺灣關係法我們的這一些不管安全還有各方面的合作也是要加強我想我們是更加應該為了要走向更現實主義因為他直接引用我們之前的前外長的這個文章"},{"start":370.808,"end":371.228,"text":"對抗臺灣．對抗烏克蘭．對抗臺灣．對抗烏克蘭。"},{"start":387.862,"end":388.643,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":408.985,"end":410.506,"text":"司法及法律局局長。四、審查行政院函請審議"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":266,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時19分）我們請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。今天除了就條約締結案之外，我可能也會就美國最新政情來跟你請教。條約締結案，剛才有委員提到一些部分，就是不依照慣例採用一些邦交詞彙，如條約、協定，是不是因為邦誼的狀況不同、受中國影響，然後做例外的使用？"],["林部長佳龍：抱歉！剛剛最後一句沒有……"],["陳委員冠廷：我說會不會因為邦誼狀況、受中國影響，所以有些條約可能變成協定、協定變成其他的說法？有沒有這種可能性存在？"],["林部長佳龍：我想在邦交國方面，都是以條約、協定為主，至於非邦交國不管用協議或其他互助什麼樣的一個方式，這當然有他們國內法，可能要經過一個什麼樣的立法程序，包括國會、用的名稱，也包括簽署的單位。我想這個是互助的，因為事實上跨境犯罪其實是互惠的，以最近來講，10月份有一位西班牙裔背景的犯罪者在臺灣，我們後來的遣返是透過德國。"],["陳委員冠廷：我的意思是，在條約的過程當中，在審議或者是對方在外交管道交流的時候，有沒有可能藉此得知這個國家的邦誼狀況有問題，所以它開始把一些用字從條約、協定再往下降，你們過去有沒有這樣的經驗？這樣是不是也可以成為一種對於邦交國開始受到影響的一個評估方式？"],["林部長佳龍：我想在邦交國方面的洽簽，因為既然有邦交，當然沒邦交或者是因為有邦交後來斷交而維持原來的互助條約或協定或其他的名稱，因為當時有簽，所以這是有效，但是不是要改簽？因為它的效力如果沒有排除因為沒邦交就自動失效的話，那還是在有效中的，像諾魯就是一個例子。"],["陳委員冠廷：OK，好，謝謝。我們來請教一下，最近川普總統的轉移政權小組有提到他們要退出WHO，這對臺灣來講是一個很大的事件，因為過去我們要參加這種不管是WHA或者是要參與WHO等等，我們都是希望特別是美國的協助，可是如果美國自己本身就要退出的話，那我們應該要怎麼辦？臺灣要怎麼樣應對如果美國退出之後的新局？"],["林部長佳龍：當然外面有一些報導表示，是不是因為這樣子而導致WHO裡面中國的影響力會增加，這值得觀察，不過我想如果美國退出，另外成立一個比較國際性的衛生組織，那臺灣應該是要第一個報名，我們也希望一起來發起、來參加。"],["陳委員冠廷：有聽到這樣的說法嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：什麼？"],["陳委員冠廷：現在已經有聽到美國可能要成立一個……"],["林部長佳龍：因為這個在他的Truth Social平臺上已經有講了。"],["陳委員冠廷：有講了？"],["林部長佳龍：而且就是以前也做過，像第一任的時候。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以如果有這樣子的可能性，我們可能也是用……"],["林部長佳龍：現在他上任，是不是會在就職第一天就以WHO作為一個例子？我們也密切觀察，就是川普政府對國際組織的一個立場，因為WHO是他點名過，而且他第一任的時候也就說要退出，後來沒有完成整個程序，我們密切觀察，因為我們不是WHA大會的會員國，不過我們也是積極在爭取參加，可是如果有其他的世界衛生組織要成立，以美國為主，那我們也是理念相近，我們也期待臺灣能夠一起來推動、成立跟參與。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長的分享，這個後座力很大，我們要先準備好，萬一有這樣子的事情發生之後，我們要先擬定好一些沙盤推演。","再來，另外一個部分，準國防部次長曾經質疑臺灣的挺烏立場，過去不管是在推特、現在的X，他也常常對我們的外交政策是有一些批判，特別是對我國國防，他認為我們的預算必須要快速增加，而且他會認為，就臺灣而言，我們應該是以臺灣優先，我們自己對於烏克蘭支持的力道跟我們未來國際上面的論述方式，是不是要隨之改變？你怎麼看？"],["林部長佳龍：我想不管是臺海或俄烏戰爭之間是互相影響的，對理念相近國家被侵略，我們當然是會表達支持。可是同樣的，臺海因為這些安全的問題，當然攸關著臺灣的生存跟發展，所以我們自己要強化國防，也要跟美國加強合作，我們必須要承擔起臺灣應該保衛自己的責任，當然也跟美國基於臺灣關係法，我們不管是安全還有各方面的合作也是要加強，這是要放在最重要的……"],["陳委員冠廷：未來我們應該要走向更現實主義，因為他直接引用他們之前前外長的文章，他說：Defending Taiwan by Defending Ukraine。基本上，他這樣的說法是認為臺灣是被一群自由派的人所領導，然後他們對自己國防的承諾不夠。我希望未來川普政權上臺之後，臺灣當然有自由派，也有保守派，但是共同的一個說法跟論述要很清楚，那就是我們對自己國防的承諾，臺灣優先，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：對，我同意美國優先、臺灣優先。"],["陳委員冠廷：他們已經都多次在X上面講，說我們對自己的排序怎麼可以排序在其他國家之後，這個我們自己也要檢討一下，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好，我們要展現決心跟防衛的能力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員，部長請回。","接下來進行詢答委員是沈伯洋委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158421","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158421","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857daed1500fb0f57f9953456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda51743ba2ecc2b3ce5ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"11:12:44 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一下我們跟我們的邦交國的這些文字是不是基本上都長一樣"},{"start":258.104,"end":269.63,"text":"市長,所有條約或協定都是跟該國所協商、洽商的結果內容,所以我們跟邦交國所簽的也許大同小異,但是也是會有些微的不一樣。"},{"start":271.263,"end":294.1,"text":"最後我請教一下這一個柯文哲案,裡頭有一個叫橘子的徐子瑜,現在不知道他人一對,如果他在的國家被我們法務部知道他在哪裡了,假設啦,假設知道在哪裡,我們沒有跟他簽協議,就要透過外交管道是不是,你們就沒辦法去處理是不是。"},{"start":295.067,"end":318.33,"text":"我們這個部分等一下可能可以請調查局來說明就是境外的這個國人假設是有通緝的情形那我們駐外的法務秘書或是說相關的警務合作的這個狀況也都可以直接來做這個協詢但是呢如果確定找到人之後可能還是要透過司法互助的管道來做這個相關的這個下談"},{"start":319.83,"end":328.463,"text":"對那所以說如果沒有跟我們有這一種互助的這一種關係的話那還是要透過外交的管道所以就會拖比較長的時間程序會比較複雜"},{"start":332.556,"end":359.093,"text":"就是比較間接合作的項目因為沒有協定來規定所以這個合作項目對方是否同意就要跟他們磋商那我們現階段就是說這個可能你們在進行中也不好意思透現階段我們還是會跟很多不是我們的邦交國在陸續在談這些的內容對不對那只要成果就會跟國人做報告好大家辛苦啦好謝謝各位好謝謝委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":215,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（11時12分）主席，請外交部林部長。"],["主席：來，部長請。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["王委員義川：部長，辛苦了，終於等到你了。"],["林部長佳龍：我也是啦！"],["王委員義川：12月24號外交部發了一個新聞，送給國人一個很大的禮物，部長記得是什麼事嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：12月24號是聖誕夜。"],["王委員義川：對，就前天。"],["林部長佳龍：送給國人……"],["王委員義川：很好的一個禮物。"],["林部長佳龍：很好的禮物？"],["王委員義川：送禮物的人都不知道自己送的禮物？"],["林部長佳龍：是聖誕老公公送的，還是……應該這樣講，我們外交部跟外交記者辦了一個活動……"],["王委員義川：不是啦！是你們今年試辦一個有條件線上申換護照……"],["林部長佳龍：對，辦簽證、護照。"],["王委員義川：對嘛！你們24號宣布從明年1月1號開始……"],["林部長佳龍：對，試辦擴大。"],["王委員義川：擴大，然後沒有每日申請上限，這個要讓國人知道，否則你們送了禮物，還是沒有人知道。"],["林部長佳龍：好，加強宣傳。這個效果很好，因為第一次試辦的時候，我有出席，看起來這半年也引起很好的反應，所以我們就擴大辦理，全面來推動。"],["王委員義川：針對今天的題目，我們跟三個國家簽了協議，站在外交部立場，你有沒有發現這三個國家簽的協議名字都不一樣？"],["林部長佳龍：因為涉及到條約、協定或協議或其他各種名詞，當然也涉及到有沒有正式外交關係，但基本上效力是一致的，然後每個國家的程序也不太一樣。"],["王委員義川：像臺德就是謝大使簽的，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["王委員義川：然後我們跟吐瓦魯、聖露西亞是法務部長簽的。我想請教法務部黃次長，因為我們現在簽的國家看起來很少，但實務上，有簽跟沒簽的差別到底在哪裡？"],["黃次長世杰：這個分不同的性質，假設我們跟邦交國所簽的協議……"],["王委員義川：不是，比如我們常常在電視上看到押解在其他國家詐騙的犯人回來，那些國家看起來也沒有在簽協定的名單裡，所以有簽跟沒簽到底差別在哪？"],["黃次長世杰：最大的差別就是條約裡所規定的司法互助項目，不需要透過外交途徑以及互惠原則，可以直接依照這個協定，由雙邊的司法主管機關，就是條約指定的司法主管機關提出司法互助請求，所以在執行上會更有效率，而就有約定的項目也會更加確保一定可以成功完成司法互助的工作。"],["王委員義川：這些條約的內容，我看到我們的那兩個邦交國，就是吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞這兩個邦交國，條文內容幾乎一模一樣，顯然應該就是法務部主導的條文內容，是不是？"],["黃次長世杰：這個其實在國際上都有相關的慣例。"],["王委員義川：可是我們跟德國就不一樣啊！"],["黃次長世杰：對，因為他們可能有不同的要求，每個國家洽簽都會有不同的要求。"],["王委員義川：德國跟很多國家都有簽，所以我們跟他們簽，要和他們跟別的國家簽的內容接近……"],["黃次長世杰：對，所以為什麼我們跟每個國家簽的時候，都要個別磋商。"],["王委員義川：好，那我請問一下，我們跟邦交國簽的這些文字是不是基本上都一樣？"],["黃次長世杰：這個我請司長回復委員。"],["孟司長玉梅：報告委員，就像剛剛次長說的，所有條約或協定都是跟該國所協商、洽商的結果內容，所以我們跟邦交國所簽的也許大同小異，但也是會有些微的不一樣。"],["王委員義川：好，最後再請教，柯文哲案中有一個叫橘子的許芷瑜，現在不知道人在哪裡，如果他在的國家被我們法務部知道了，假設啦！假設知道他在哪裡，但我們沒有跟這個國家簽協定、協議，那就要透過外交管道，所以你們就沒辦法處理，是不是？"],["黃次長世杰：是，這個部分等一下可能可以請調查局說明，就是在境外的國人，假設有通緝情形，駐外的法務秘書或是相關警務合作的狀況，都可以直接來協尋，但如果確定找到人之後，可能還是要透過司法互助管道來做相關的洽談。"],["王委員義川：對，如果跟我們沒有這種互助關係，還是要透過外交管道？"],["黃次長世杰：是，還是要透過外交管道。"],["王委員義川：那就會拖比較長的時間，程序也會比較複雜，是不是？"],["黃次長世杰：就是會比較間接。"],["王委員義川：會比較間接？"],["黃次長世杰：因為合作的項目沒有協定規定，所以這個合作項目對方是否同意，就要跟他們進行磋商。"],["王委員義川：這個可能你們在進行中，也不好透露，就是現階段我們還是會跟很多不是邦交國的國家陸續洽談這些內容，對不對？"],["黃次長世杰：對。"],["王委員義川：只要有成果就會跟國人報告？"],["黃次長世杰：是，是。"],["王委員義川：好，大家辛苦啦！好，謝謝各位。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王義川委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答委員是陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158420","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158420","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857dafe79b3690b6eed903456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda5170058b4a0f6ef72a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"11:01:47 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麻煩請部長林部長"},{"start":14.758,"end":31.663,"text":"部長早部長我們在今天主要是外交部報告有三個跟國外政府簽訂的條約協議那其中一項是中華民國臺灣政府跟聖露西亞政府刑事司法"},{"start":32.383,"end":36.085,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議（臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":59.986,"end":88.644,"text":"涉嫌進行販毒,所以遭美方的司法部門逮捕。」那這個案子有結果了嗎?這個案子就是美方在偵辦中。可是他有認罪了。對。對,他有認罪了。那剛剛我們在從辦公室過來之前,我們還是看到聖露西亞的那個官方網站上面還放著就是我們派的這一位外交"},{"start":89.997,"end":93.52,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":116.621,"end":118.884,"text":"進行當中,我們是不是今天在簽這個報告內容跟聖露西亞是不是我們應該讓他們很清楚的知道這個應該不要放在網站上了"},{"start":131.472,"end":160.003,"text":"當然聖露西亞方面都了解我們有跟他保持聯繫我請我同仁來說明一下為什麼沒有在他上面呈現首先先跟委員報告這個案子從案發一開始我們就透過駐外管處我們聖露西亞大使館已經跟聖露政府已經保持密切的聯繫但是之前案情在進行當中所以聖露西亞完全知情那相關的進展我們也有跟聖露西亞保持雙向的溝通"},{"start":160.503,"end":166.808,"text":"你們有沒有告訴說他已經認罪而且這個已經在進行當中那是不是我們應該要告訴他們說這個應該要拿下來因為我們推薦的是一個詐騙犯而且他是販毒報告委員謝謝委員的垂詢這個部分我們的確已經透過聖露西亞大使館跟聖國政府有保持密切的聯繫那同時這個情況也有讓他們知道不過有部分要跟委員澄清的是我們的"},{"start":187.222,"end":193.163,"text":"替代藝男被領選進來去參與我們的外交替代藝男的這個業務的時候其實是經過公開領選的所以他在這個過程沒有關係這個過程沒有關係聽我講完我沒有要聽你解釋前面的這一段因為也許我們不知道可是當他被美國逮捕以後我們有必有義務要告訴聖露西亞因為他就是我們的邦交國而且你今天拿出來的"},{"start":215.429,"end":226.644,"text":"這份報告是跟他相關司法互助的部分,如果我們推薦這樣一個人物,像我們一些公務人員你在一審判決有罪的時候,或者甚至有質疑的時候,你就會把他換下來,難道我們不應該這麼做嗎?"},{"start":231.398,"end":232.92,"text":"指揮大使館指揮大使館指揮大使館"},{"start":249.821,"end":249.881,"text":"函請審議函請審議"},{"start":267.578,"end":271.679,"text":"如果我們都知道不會外交部不知道今天因為這個還我們推薦的人剛開始我們不知道那個沒話說可是他已經被美國逮捕然後他已經在司法進行當中他可能很快就會受到審判那在這個過程當中我們就應該要很明確的告訴他這個人並不是適合放在官方網站上面因為那一篇也是我們寫給他們的"},{"start":294.523,"end":294.903,"text":"指控聖露西亞政府刑事"},{"start":310.013,"end":317.276,"text":"司法互助是非常諷刺的因為我們沒有好好的去告知人家這個部分我們希望馬上就看到結果因為我來之前還在網站上面還看到這個是第一個接下來我們希望馬上可以處理因為你禮拜五才發信而已那部長這個再請您可以去詳細的了解一下不然我覺得我們今天審這個真的是沒有意義那第二個我想要請教的是"},{"start":338.345,"end":343.548,"text":"部長,我們一般外交豁免權大概指豁免什麼?就是在雙邊的條件之下?當然,除了對於像當然是稅的問題、車牌還有其他,我想豁免就是以外交管轄權的有一些涉及的司法等等。"},{"start":359.979,"end":366.36,"text":"這個部分因為可能沒有辦法很完整的說明清楚那是不是就外交部在非邦交國的這個駐外管人員我們想要知道的是哪些國家是具有完整的外交豁免權哪一些國家是只有部分的豁免權或者哪一些國家是完全沒有的是不是請外交部可以提供相關的資料給本席"},{"start":387.185,"end":390.949,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。"},{"start":402.481,"end":406.083,"text":"我們大概要知道說有哪些啦不好意思主席借一點點時間因為我們在預算審查的時候也有提到因為我們也覺得這個非常重要就是我們中東的三個國家"},{"start":423.07,"end":431.053,"text":"是有正式派駐代表在我們這裡,雖然是屬於經貿類的,可是雙方也非常長的時間,甚至不管是在軍事或者公共安全,甚至教育交流的部分,其實都維持很長的時間,像約旦,而且我們有很多如果要學阿語的部分,其實也都是送到約旦去那裡受訓的,包括我們的軍方人員。"},{"start":449.179,"end":452.625,"text":"所以在這裡我們要看到就是說我想請教之前因為商會的部分目前的處理結果怎麼樣我們除了就是"},{"start":463.117,"end":488.477,"text":"就是對他們外交的這個特權的保障然後在不是不是部長就是說因為因為他們有去提告有那個假商會的那個因為他也用這樣的名義甚至發假的那個簽證這個部分這個部分請他書面回覆本委員等一下等一下因為我想要知道說是不是有跟警察單位去有提出他的外交豁免權有嗎"},{"start":489.978,"end":495.681,"text":"因為這三個不太一樣,那我們也都有在做,其實都把它當作是,就是駐台的,有跟警察單位講了,可是他們可能沒有接到,在警察單位約談的時候,我們第一時間就有出面,但是你要讓,對,應該要讓他們知道,要持續跟三個駐台的單位保持聯絡關懷他們,"},{"start":515.872,"end":528.382,"text":"現在我們特別再提出來是因為他們完全沒有接到相關的訊息所以我們在雙方雙邊的這樣子的交流互動上面可能有一些問題應該是有啦因為我有責成我們同仁要跟他們保持聯繫關懷沒有關係除了外交部的部分可能有涉及內政部或警政署我們也一定都要來關心請把書面資料提供給本席就是我們有通知我們的作為啦關心然後協助"},{"start":543.314,"end":548.156,"text":"另外還有對內的商會我們的做法是什麼因為他甚至用這樣公開的名義去募款在國內募款都已經是違法可是他用商會的名義去對外募款包括我們的邦交國這樣會造成誤導這個部分我們到底有什麼樣的做法也請提供書面資料給本席那最後我想要強調的是我想要請教就是我們現在駐約旦安曼的"},{"start":569.887,"end":593.776,"text":"那個代表處現在住的那個住處是怎麼來的目前有人知道嗎約旦安曼的那個那個代表處長久以來就有我們的市長對我知道是舊的那個是怎麼來的你知道嗎有人知道嗎買的租的借的對是買的租的還是什麼現在是我們的自由管轍對啊那是怎麼來的"},{"start":595.051,"end":598.552,"text":"是當時雙邊的政府經過這個協議約單的政府送的嘛對不對今天如果人家過去我們現在要買都花很多的錢現在都花很多的錢我們希望就這個部分我們應該怎麼樣對等的互惠尤其怎麼樣保障他們在這裡的安全跟權益我想這個是我們應該要做的好不好"},{"start":619.798,"end":619.818,"text":"函請審議"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":118,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（11時1分）謝謝主席。麻煩請部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["馬委員文君：部長早。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["馬委員文君：部長，我們今天主要是外交部報告跟三個國外政府簽訂的條約、協議，其中一項是中華民國臺灣政府跟聖露西亞政府刑事司法互約的部分，在這裡要請教部長，因為在您上任以後，其實第一次來業務報告的時候，我們曾經提到在外交部國合會派駐聖露西亞技術團裡面，曾經有持公務護照，就是我們外交護照計畫助理身分而去聖露西亞服勤的替代役林睿庠，他因為涉嫌經營販毒，所以遭美方的司法部門逮捕，這個案子有結果了嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：這個案子就是美方在偵辦中。"],["馬委員文君：可是他有認罪了。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["馬委員文君：他有認罪了，剛剛我們在從辦公室過來之前，我們還是看到聖露西亞官方網站上面還放著我們派的這位持外交護照的替代役男……"],["林部長佳龍：替代役。"],["馬委員文君：因為我們請了可能販毒還有詐騙這樣一個詐欺犯去教反詐騙，當時他是以網路專家而去教網路犯罪和加密貨幣，而且是以講師的身分，我們推薦給他們，到目前為止，他都已經認罪，而且到現在司法還在進行當中，就今天有關的報告內容，我們是不是應該讓聖露西亞很清楚地知道，這個應該不要放在網站上了？"],["林部長佳龍：好，當然聖露西亞方面都有了解，我們有跟他保持聯繫，我請同仁來說明一下為什麼沒有在上面呈現。"],["馬委員文君：為什麼還要放著？"],["林副司長美呈：先跟委員報告，這個案子從案發一開始，我們就透過駐外館處聖露西亞大使館已經跟聖國政府保持密切的聯繫，但是之前案情在進行當中，所以聖露西亞完全知情，相關的進展，我們也有跟聖露西亞保持雙向的溝通，但一直到前一陣子……"],["馬委員文君：你們有沒有告訴說他們，他已經認罪，而且這個已經在進行當中？"],["林副司長美呈：任何的進展，我們都有告訴聖露西亞大使館……"],["馬委員文君：是不是我們應該要告訴他們說這個應該要拿下來？因為我們推薦的是一個詐騙犯，而且他是販毒……"],["林副司長美呈：是，報告委員，謝謝委員的垂詢，這個部分，我們的確已經透過聖露西亞大使館跟聖國政府有保持密切的聯繫，同時這個情況也有讓他們知道，不過有部分要跟委員澄清的是，我們的替代役男被遴選去參與我們的外交替代役男這個業務的時候，其實是經過公開遴選的，所以他在進行……"],["馬委員文君：這跟過程沒有關係，這跟過程沒有關係……"],["林副司長美呈：是，我要跟委員鄭重澄清的是……"],["馬委員文君：聽我講完、聽我講完，我沒有要聽你解釋前面的這一段，因為也許我們不知道，可是當他被美國逮捕以後，我們有義務要告訴聖露西亞，因為它就是我們的邦交國，而且你今天拿出來的這一份報告是跟它相關司法互助的部分，如果我們推薦這樣一個人物，像我們一些公務人員在一審判決有罪的時候，或者甚至有質疑的時候，你就會把他換下來，難道我們不應該這麼做嗎？要不要馬上做？你回答這個就好，要不要馬上做？"],["林副司長美呈：是，跟委員報告，我們已經告訴聖露西亞大使館，就是……"],["馬委員文君：你們是不是應該請它要把它拿下來？"],["林副司長美呈：已經有告訴聖露西亞大使館，再把最新的這個狀況告訴……"],["馬委員文君：什麼時候跟他們說的？"],["林副司長美呈：我們最新的狀況，其實昨天的公文就已經出去了，上個禮拜五，我們先透過電話聯繫，跟大使館說明這個狀況。"],["馬委員文君：所以是不是今天要開這個會議，你們才把他……"],["林副司長美呈：沒有，上個禮拜五，我們其實就已經有告訴他們最新的狀況。"],["馬委員文君：上個禮拜五，這個已經多久了？這個已經多久了？"],["林副司長美呈：我們已經告訴……就是任何案件進行的過程當中，我們都跟聖露西亞……"],["馬委員文君：這個已經多久了？"],["林副司長美呈：從今年……"],["馬委員文君：因為他已經認罪，如果我們都知道了，外交部不會不知道，今天因為是我們推薦的人，剛開始我們不知道，那個沒話說，可是他已經被美國逮捕，然後他已經在司法進行當中，他可能很快就會受到審判，在這個過程當中，我們就應該要很明確地告訴它，這個人並不適合放在官方網站上面，因為那一篇也是我們寫給他們的，在不知情的情況之下，他們也放在上面，我們是去教人家的警察做這些事，所以應很負責任地去告訴聖露西亞，不然今天我們提出來審這個司法互助是非常諷刺的，因為我們沒有好好的去告知人家，這個部分我們希望馬上就看到結果……"],["林副司長美呈：沒問題，是。"],["馬委員文君：因為我來之前，還在網站上面看到，這是第一個，我們希望馬上可以處理，因為你禮拜五才發信而已。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["馬委員文君：部長，這個再請您去詳細了解一下，不然我覺得我們今天審這個真的是沒有意義。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["馬委員文君：第二個，我想要請教的是，部長，我們一般外交豁免權大概只豁免什麼？就是在雙邊的條件之下，我們有邦交國、非邦交國，簡單就好。"],["林部長佳龍：當然像稅的問題啦、車牌啦，還有其他。我想豁免就是以外交管轄權有一些涉及的，比如司法等等。"],["馬委員文君：這個部分因為可能沒有辦法很完整說明清楚，就外交部在非邦交國的駐外館人員，我們想要知道的是哪些國家是具有完整的外交豁免權，哪一些國家是只有部分的豁免權，或者哪一些國家是完全沒有的，是不是請外交部可以提供相關的資料給本席？就外交豁免權的部分。"],["林部長佳龍：我請同仁會後跟委員報告。"],["馬委員文君：提書面資料好了，好不好？就豁免權的部分，比較清楚的，大概有我們國內的，還有國外……"],["林部長佳龍：我也跟委員說明，這個資料有部分可能會……"],["主席：沒關係，如果資料涉及……"],["林部長佳龍：我們再註記……"],["主席：就用密件……"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["馬委員文君：對，可以，就是我們大概要知道有哪些啦！"],["林部長佳龍：對，哪些類別、哪一些項目。"],["馬委員文君：不好意思，主席，借一點點時間。因為我們在預算審查的時候也有提到，我們也覺得這個非常重要，就是中東的三個國家是有正式派駐代表在我們這裡，雖然是屬於經貿類的，可是雙方交流也有非常長的時間，甚至不管是在軍事或公共安全，甚至教育交流的部分，其實都維持很長的時間，像約旦，而且我們很多如果要學阿語的部分，其實也都是送到約旦去那裡受訓，包括我們的軍方人員，所以在這裡我們看到的，我想要請教之前因為商會的部分，目前的處理結果怎麼樣？就是他們到……"],["林部長佳龍：我們除了對他們有外交特權的保障……"],["馬委員文君：就是處理的結果。"],["林部長佳龍：然後在……"],["馬委員文君：不是、不是，部長，因為他們有去提告，有假商會的那部分，因為他也用這樣的名義，甚至發假的簽證，這個部分……"],["主席：馬委員，這個部分，請他書面回復本委員會，好不好？"],["馬委員文君：等一下、等一下，因為我想要知道說是不是有跟警察單位提出他能否有外交豁免權，有嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：因為這三國不太一樣，我們其實也都把他當作……"],["馬委員文君：不是啦！有沒有啦？"],["林部長佳龍：就是駐臺的……"],["馬委員文君：有嘛！有嘛！有跟警察單位講了，可是他們可能沒有接到，這個部分外交部可能要……"],["林部長佳龍：在警察單位約談的時候，我們第一時間就有出面。"],["主席：讓那三個駐臺單位了解……"],["馬委員文君：可是你應該要讓他們知道……"],["林部長佳龍：對，我也要求持續跟三個駐臺單位保持聯絡，關懷他們。"],["馬委員文君：現在我們特別再提出來，是因為他們完全沒有接到相關訊息，所以我們雙方、雙邊在交流互動上可能有一些問題。"],["林部長佳龍：應該是有啦！我有責成我們同仁要跟他們保持聯繫，關懷……"],["馬委員文君：沒有關係，如果有的話，請把……"],["林部長佳龍：除了外交部的部分，可能有涉及內政部或警政署，我們也一定都要來關心。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：部長，請把書面資料提供給本席，就是我們有通知……"],["林部長佳龍：就是我們的作為啦！有關心，然後協助……"],["馬委員文君：對，我們的相關作為。另外對於那個商會，我們的作法是什麼？因為他甚至用這樣的名義公開去募款，在國內募款都已經是違法，可是他用商會的名義對外募款，包括我們的邦交國，這會造成誤導，這個部分我們到底有什麼樣的作法，也請提供書面資料給本席。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：最後我想再請教，我們現在駐約旦安曼的代表處，那個駐處是怎麼來的？目前的，有人知道嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：安曼？"],["馬委員文君：約旦安曼的那個代表處。"],["林部長佳龍：長久以來就有啊！我們司長……"],["馬委員文君：我知道是舊的，那個是怎麼來的，你知道嗎？有人知道嗎？"],["主席：簡單回答，當時是買的、租的、借的？"],["馬委員文君：對，是買的、租的，還是什麼？"],["賀司長忠義：現在是我們的自由館舍。"],["馬委員文君：對，那是怎麼來的？"],["賀司長忠義：是當時雙邊政府經過協議……"],["馬委員文君：約旦政府送的嘛，對不對？現在如果要買要花很多錢……"],["主席：馬委員，時間差不多了！拜託！"],["馬委員文君：好。現在要花很多錢，我們希望就這個部分，應該怎麼對等互惠，尤其怎麼保障他們在這裡的安全跟權益，這個是我們應該要做的，好不好？有什麼樣的作為，麻煩……"],["主席：書面回復，請涵蓋委員垂詢的部分。"],["馬委員文君：一個禮拜之內，就是下禮拜，提供資料給我，好不好？"],["主席：改兩個禮拜，好不好？因為中間……"],["馬委員文君：沒有，兩個禮拜就過年了，我剛剛問的那個問題應該很簡單……"],["林部長佳龍：好，我們加快。"],["馬委員文君：而且你們都已經在做，剛剛說你們都已經在做了……"],["主席：謝謝馬委員，各位請回，謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：把資料提供給本席，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：接下來進行詢答委員是王義川委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"158419","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/158419","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc041460795857da101443479c20161e3456f4f17f81126f9baea63c35cda51759671ad967cd14905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"10:54:23 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主席先請外交部林部長來 部長請"},{"start":11.664,"end":17.688,"text":"部長早進入今天的條約簽訂的主題之前我想要先請問您我們上個星期五因為這個財政收支劃分法已經重新的來做翻修那麼我們知道3700億對於整體的中央政府總預算來講大概就是28%的中央政府的可以運用的經費現在必須要依照新法如果"},{"start":34.439,"end":61.906,"text":"總統公告之後可能會影響到的是中央政府的各個部會昨天陸續其實包括像國防部這邊也出估了大概就是有800億的部分包括經濟部、衛福部都有不知道外交部這邊有沒有來盤點我們知道外交工作有很多的部分其實都是在海外其實不論是我們外交鞏固邦誼或者是拓展我們新的外交關係都是需要的"},{"start":62.526,"end":70.722,"text":"那麼部長有沒有盤點過對於整個外交部的影響是什麼?跟委員報告外交部有盤點那因為外交部主管"},{"start":72.526,"end":85.773,"text":"相關114年度的預算案在稅出編列是319億。如果按照這一個三減,就扣除掉法律義務支出84億,有其他的235億將受到影響,因為這樣一比例三減如果是28%的話就是65億。"},{"start":93.397,"end":118.832,"text":"這個會明顯很直接的衝擊到我們外交工作,特別是在國際組織、交流還有跟友邦的合作計畫。這個都是,尤其是包括我們駐外管處的一些運作當然也都會連帶受到影響。好,那麼我們看到的是最新的財政委員會,下個禮拜開會的時候,他們的召委陳玉珍就已經要求要重新來編訂跟評估,部長怎麼看?"},{"start":124.612,"end":138.2,"text":"因為其實這個關鍵在做財劃法的修改跟配套因為它的這個支出跟收入還有相關的一個需要"},{"start":140.046,"end":143.431,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":155.367,"end":156.588,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事"},{"start":175.53,"end":191.184,"text":"那麼信友的福利之外其實國家不論是外交或國防相對的重要在這個部分的影響性我建議部長也必須把它具體化的落實讓民眾知道因為不論國防或外交其實是守護國家非常重要的第一道防線所以在這裡也提醒部長"},{"start":193.546,"end":210.291,"text":"因為預期心理,因為這個預算的不確定性,我們很多規劃或很多的要洽商的事情就沒辦法展開,因為公務員是依法行政的,所以這個即使是延後去重新編列,那一拖半年,那我們的政務會受到很大的影響。"},{"start":210.691,"end":227.018,"text":"尤其是很多外交工作其實不能等,我們不能跟我們的友邦說,抱歉,你等等一下,我們預算沒有下來,那麼我們到底要怎麼樣處理。所以在這裡,其實對於外交業務的衝擊的部分,外交部也有這個責任,必須要讓全國民眾知道。好,那麼我回到,我們,來下一頁。"},{"start":229.719,"end":253.586,"text":"有關於今天我們講到的是三跟三個友邦所簽訂的司法互助的協定那我們都知道其實對於民眾來講公開政府的資訊公開對於民眾相對是非常重要的部長您知道我們現在有多少友邦來簽訂協定嗎我們就是有六個友邦然後有六個不是我們的邦交國好來我要請這個黃政次主席來"},{"start":258.74,"end":274.151,"text":"本席在法務部上面的網站目前看到的司法互助跟協定是看到20筆可是在外交部的條約協定的資料庫看到的卻是23筆我想就叫兩位到底誰的哪一邊的資料是正確的好來部長"},{"start":284.5,"end":313.618,"text":"因為我們現在是講一些刑事互助方面我剛剛提到那當然也有一些民事還有其他的包括一些合作的一個項目所以說外交部是因為又涵蓋了其他的一些民事上面的部分嗎來,市長因為我們跟幾個國家包括越南在內我們另外簽的是民事的司法互助協定"},{"start":314.218,"end":314.518,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案"},{"start":334.451,"end":350.125,"text":"法務部的網頁沒有錯但是如果跟民事有關會通通涵蓋在外交部這裡但是這個其實會讓民眾會有一些產生一些confuse包括本席在了解的時候就會覺得說怎麼會一個是20筆一個是23筆那麼我認為讓民眾來查詢也了解自己的權利是蠻重要的在這個部分建議用一個更有效的方式來公開讓民眾來了解"},{"start":360.533,"end":387.204,"text":"那我們回去之後研議一下,看是不是要跟外交部來投布。當然這個事涉這個權管,所以我們還是要跟這個外交部來討論一下。好,也許全部都由外交部來公布,或是怎麼樣,那我覺得這個其實是可以好好來研議。最後一點點時間我要問的就是剛剛有講到台核,那麼本席因為是台法的國會聯誼會的會長,法國這裡其實也在關心司法互助的進度,那麼不知道現在台法之間的司法互助有沒有什麼新的進度?"},{"start":388.164,"end":413.104,"text":"跟委員報告因為那個法方目前在積極跟我們洽談這個受刑人這個移交的相關的協議那因為雙方從107年開始討論到現在那還有一些關鍵的問題還在洽談當中那因為現在法方比較積極所以我們也會跟外交部這邊協同用最快的速度積極來辦理相關的事務"},{"start":413.905,"end":414.145,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":82,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（10時54分）謝謝主席，先請外交部林部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長早。在進入今天的條約審查這個主題之前，我想要先請問您，上個星期五財政收支劃分法已經重新翻修了，我們知道3,700億對於整體中央政府總預算來講，大概就是28%中央政府可以運用的經費現在必須要依照新法，如果總統公告之後，那麼可能會影響到的是中央政府的各個部會，昨天陸續包括像國防部這邊也粗估了，大概就是有800億的部分，包括經濟部、衛福部也都有，不知道外交部這邊有沒有來盤點？我們知道外交工作有很多部分其實都是在海外，不論是我們在外交上的鞏固邦誼或者是拓展新的外交關係，都是需要的，請問部長有沒有盤點過修法後對於整個外交部的影響是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，外交部有盤點，因為外交部主管相關114年度的預算案，在歲出編列是319億，如果按照這個來刪減，就是扣除掉法律義務支出84億外，其他的235億將受到影響，因為這樣子依比例刪減，如果是28%的話就是65億……"],["林委員楚茵：有65億？"],["林部長佳龍：這會明顯且直接的衝擊到我們外交工作，特別是在國際組織交流，還有跟友邦的合作計畫，包括我們駐外館處的一些運作當然也都會連帶受到影響。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我們現在看到的這個是最新的財政委員會下個禮拜開會的議程，他們的召委陳玉珍就已經要求要重新編定跟評估，部長怎麼看？"],["林部長佳龍：其實這個關鍵在財劃法的修改跟配套，因為這個支出跟收入及相關的部分，需要讓它在符合財政紀律之下來做編列，事實上外交工作一日不能停，因為現在已經是12月底了，所以我想這個衝擊，甚至預期心理，都可能影響很大。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以對於這個部分，雖然我們希望這個法令能夠用其他的方式，包括暫停處分等等都可以，但是我相信它對於外交工作的影響會很直接，就像你講的，包括外館的運作還有參與國際組織，因為一般的民眾他們比較直接、直效關注到的可能是他們現有的福利，現有的福利之外，其實國家不論是外交或國防都相對的重要，在這個部分的影響性，我建議部長也必須把它具體化的落實，讓民眾知道，因為不論國防或外交，其實是守護國家非常重要的第一道防線，所以在這裡也提醒部長。"],["林部長佳龍：對，因為預期心理，因為這個預算的不確定性，我們很多規劃或很多要洽商的事情就沒辦法展開，因為公務員是依法行政的……"],["林委員楚茵：沒錯！"],["林部長佳龍：所以即使是延後去重新編列，一拖半年，那我們的政務會受到很大的影響。"],["林委員楚茵：尤其是很多外交工作其實是不能等的，我們不能跟我們的友邦說：不好意思，你稍微等一下，我們的預算沒有下來。所以我們到底要怎麼樣處理？在這裡，其實對於外交業務的衝擊部分，外交部也有這個責任必須要讓全國民眾知道。","好，我回到今天所要審查的跟三個友邦所簽署的私法互助協定，我們都知道，其實對於民眾來講，政府的資訊公開對於民眾相對是非常重要的，部長，您知道我們現在有跟多少友邦來簽署協定嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們有6個友邦，然後有6個不是我們的邦交國。"],["林委員楚茵：主席，我要請黃政次。"],["主席：請。"],["林委員楚茵：本席在法務部的網站上看到目前的司法互助協定有20筆，可是在外交部的條約協定資料庫看到的卻是23筆，我想就教兩位，到底哪一邊的資料是正確的？"],["林部長佳龍：因為我們現在講的是刑事互助方面，我剛剛提到，當然也有一些民事的，還有其他一些合作的項目。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以外交部是因為有涵蓋了其他一些民事上的部分嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員補充，因為我們跟幾個國家，包含越南在內，我們另外簽的是民事的司法互助協定，外交部這邊是全部都放上去，而法務部這邊主要還是放刑事司法互助的部分，所以會有一些數字上的差異。"],["林委員楚茵：所以變成在管轄上面所公開的資訊不相同？"],["黃次長世杰：對。"],["林委員楚茵：等於是對於民眾來講，他去查的時候就知道如果是刑事的，你去看法務部的網頁，沒有錯，但是如果跟民事有關，會通通涵蓋在外交部這裡，但是這個其實會讓民眾會產生一些confuse，包括本席在了解的時候就會覺得怎麼會一個是20筆、一個是23筆？我認為讓民眾來查詢，也了解自己的權利是滿重要的。在這個部分，建議用一個更有效的方式來公開讓民眾了解。"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，我們回去之後研議一下，看是不是要跟外交部來同步，但這個事涉權管……"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["黃次長世杰：所以我們還是要跟外交部來討論一下……"],["林委員楚茵：好，也許全部都由外交部來公布或是怎麼樣，我覺得這個其實可以好好來研議。","最後一點點時間，我要問的就是剛剛有講到臺荷，因為本席是臺法國會聯誼會會長，法國其實也在關心司法互助的進度，不知道現在臺法之間的司法互助，有沒有什麼新的進度？"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，因為法方目前在積極跟我們洽談受刑人移交的相關協議，因為雙方從107年開始討論到現在，還有一些關鍵的問題還在洽談當中，因為現在法方比較積極，所以我們也會跟外交部這邊協同，用最快的速度積極來辦理相關的事務。"],["林委員楚茵：好，歐洲包括臺荷、臺德，然後再到臺法，我覺得這些司法互助對於民眾的權利義務的保障都會相當重要，再請相關部會能夠積極的加快腳步。"],["黃次長世杰：好的，我們會積極辦理。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，各位首長請回。","好，接下來進行詢答的委員是馬文君委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDat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有請外交部林佳龍部長還有法務部黃士傑次長好 兩位請"},{"start":14.891,"end":34.285,"text":"兩位早安台灣確實跟德國還有吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞的這個刑事司法互助協議如果通過的話呢在我國的這個司法互助上其實就有很大的這個進展跟這個突破那最近的本席有發現就是說荷蘭的眾議院通過了一項友台動議"},{"start":35.406,"end":48.836,"text":"建議荷蘭政府參考德國的模式,演繹跟臺灣簽署刑事司法互助協定,並指出臺德合作經驗在打擊洗錢、網路犯罪等跨國犯罪領域可以發揮關鍵作用。"},{"start":54.039,"end":57.841,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員"},{"start":70.487,"end":98.052,"text":"在荷蘭眾議院通過這一個動議之後本部就有協助法務部就此來指派專人擔任跟荷方對接的承辦窗口相關資訊也已經通知了駐荷蘭代表處該處也已經跟荷方展開溝通這個模式我們認為很值得來推廣就台德的這個協議進一步再跟歐洲其他我們尤其是這些"},{"start":99.252,"end":104.296,"text":"民主法治的國家能夠比照來推動。請問次長有沒有要補充的部分呢?"},{"start":123.963,"end":143.989,"text":"謝謝委員觀詢跟詮詢在外交部的協助底下我們也積極回應目前本部的國際及兩岸法律司已經指定跟荷蘭方聯繫窗口所以目前我們會積極的跟外交部一起來洽談我們也希望用最快的速度來促成這個事情的完成"},{"start":144.449,"end":168.431,"text":"OK好謝謝次長那我先請外交部先回座那下一個我想要請教的就是說我們法務部那臺灣在這個司法互助方面我們運作基本上是非常的這個穩定可是隨著這個跨國犯罪的案件量的熱議的增長那我們現行的逐案請求模式在程序上面它是比較繁瑣的"},{"start":169.512,"end":187.981,"text":"在加三跟合作國家之間可能我們有一些法律體系上面的差異導致在處理資產凍結或是跨國證據調取像這些案件的時候呢效率其實基本上會受到一些限制那像歐盟的這個相互承認原則是一個很值得我們去參考的一個範例"},{"start":189.101,"end":215.374,"text":"官禁在於成員國之間直接承認彼此的司法決定,減少了重複審查的環節,讓合作效率提高。所以我想請教次長,我們有沒有可能嘗試跟友好國家來推動,有沒有困難度?請問次長。跟委員報告,委員所提出的歐盟的相互承認原則,它其實是建立在歐盟國際條約的基礎上。"},{"start":218.275,"end":233.946,"text":"所以說它其實是需要高度的洽商而且要把各該國家的內國法做相關的借接才有辦法用這種相互承認原則的模式當然這是一個非常理想的目標我們目前還是會以積極的來尋求司法互助協定的簽訂"},{"start":239.049,"end":249.897,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":267.108,"end":267.388,"text":"司法互助協議案。"},{"start":283.727,"end":305.306,"text":"當然如果你說全面就像市長剛才所講的可能有很多的這個每個國家他的這個機制並不一樣你要達到一個協同的話可能有一些困難度可是我們可以從比如說我剛才所提到的高需求的領域來先做著手我想這個部分的話應該是有可行的空間是我們都會在跟這個各個國家在"},{"start":305.886,"end":313.03,"text":"刑事司法互助協議案。四、審查行政院函請審議《台德司法互助協議》案。五、審查行政院函請審議《台德司法互助協議》案。六、審查行政院函請審議《台德司法互助協議》案。"},{"start":333.162,"end":355.172,"text":"這部分我們其實都有把它放到這個協定裡面那即使目前還未洽簽協定那我們依據這個各國依照互惠的原則來提出司法互助請求的時候在歐洲的部分事實上目前這個互動的情形也相當的良好所以我們會持續的努力累積這個個案的經驗之後王委員所提出的這個方向來努力"},{"start":355.692,"end":358.314,"text":"法規調整和信任基礎上投入更多資源,讓臺灣在國際舞台上有更大發揮的影響力。"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":61,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（10時47分）謝謝主席，有請外交部林佳龍部長及法務部黃世杰次長。"],["主席：兩位，請。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：兩位早安。臺灣跟德國、吐瓦魯及聖露西亞的刑事司法互助協議（條約）如果通過的話，在我國的司法互助上確實是有很大的進展跟突破。最近本席有發現荷蘭眾議院通過了一項友臺動議，建議荷蘭政府參考德國的模式，研議跟臺灣簽署刑事司法互助協定，並指出臺德合作經驗在打擊洗錢、網路犯罪等跨國犯罪領域可以發揮關鍵作用。所以我想先請教林部長，針對荷蘭眾議院的這個動議，我們是否已經展開相關合作的推動？因為荷蘭主動提出，那我方是不是應該積極來做接觸？請問這個部分我們有沒有進一步的進展？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，在荷蘭眾議院通過這一個動議之後，本部就有協助法務部就此指派專人擔任跟荷方對接的承辦窗口，相關資訊也已經通知駐荷蘭代表處，該處也已經跟荷方展開溝通，這個模式我們認為很值得來推廣，就是臺德的協議進一步再跟歐洲其他國家，尤其是這些民主法治的國家，能夠比照來推動。"],["羅委員美玲：所以這是繼德國、吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞之後，可能荷蘭會是下一個我們要簽署刑事司法互助協議的國家，我們未來會有這樣一個進展，對不對？"],["林部長佳龍：是，這個是我們要推動的方向。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好。請問次長有沒有要補充的部分呢？"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝委員關心跟垂詢，在外交部的協助下，我們也積極回應，目前本部的國際及兩岸法律司已經指定跟荷蘭方聯繫窗口，所以目前我們會積極跟外交部一起來洽談，我們也希望能用最快的速度來促成這個事情的完成。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好，謝謝次長。","我先請外交部長先回座。","下一個我想要請教的是法務部，臺灣在司法互助方面的運作基本上是非常的穩定，可是隨著跨國犯罪案件量的日益增長，我們現行的逐案請求模式在程序上面是比較繁瑣的，再加上跟合作國家之間可能有一些法律體系上的差異，導致在處理資產凍結或是跨國證據調取等案件的時候，效率其實基本上會受到一些限制，而歐盟的相互承認原則是一個很值得我們去參考的範例，它的關鍵在於成員國之間直接承認彼此的司法決定，減少了重複審查的環節，讓合作效率可以提高。所以我想請教次長，我們有沒有可能嘗試跟友好國家來做推動？有沒有困難度？"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，委員所提出歐盟的這個相互承認原則，其實是建立在歐盟這個國際條約的基礎上，所以它其實是需要高度的洽商，而且要把各該國家的內國法做相關的介接，才有辦法用這種相互承認原則的模式。當然，這是一個非常理想的目標，我們目前還是會積極尋求司法互助協定的簽署，讓我們的個案在請求的過程中能夠減少外交途徑的迂迴，能夠直接跟對方的司法單位合作，在這樣的基礎之上，我們再來努力，看能不能往所謂的相互承認原則上面來推進。不過因為這個事涉相關複雜的法律問題，所以我們也需要跟相關的國家有累積的個案合作基礎之後，才有可能再往這個方向來邁進。"],["羅委員美玲：是，本席也可以做一個建議，譬如說可以針對高需求領域來著手，例如在證據共享方面或者是在資產凍結方面，如果我們跟這些合作國家的司法部協作的話，當然就像次長剛才所講的，可能每個國家的機制並不一樣，你要達到一個協同的話可能有一些困難度，可是我們可以從譬如我剛才所提到的高需求的領域先著手，我想這個部分應該是有可行的空間嘛。"],["黃次長世杰：是，我們在跟各該國家研修討論、簽署司法互助協定的時候，都會把剛剛提到的這些、委員所指出來非常重要的這些領域納入，譬如我們今天審議的臺德司法互助協議的第六條就有規定，包含取得人之陳述、搜索及扣押，還有剛剛委員提到的資產凍結、執行與犯罪有關之財產沒收或追徵，以及資產共享等這些部分，我們其實都有把它放到這個協定裡面，即使目前還未洽簽協定，各國依照互惠原則來提出司法互助請求的時候，在歐洲的部分，事實上，目前互動的情形也相當的良好，所以我們會持續努力累積個案的經驗之後，往委員所提出的這個方向來努力。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，謝謝次長。所以我最後還是要呼籲我們的行政部門，我們先從現有的合作基礎出發，然後加速推動司法互助的升級，在法規的調整跟信任基礎上面能投入更多的資源，讓臺灣在國際舞臺上面發揮更大的影響力。以上，謝謝。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員，各位請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是林楚茵委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":196,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-2-35,36-1","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","林楚茵","馬文君","王義川","陳冠廷","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","徐巧芯","林憶君","洪孟楷","葉元之","黃仁","鍾佳濱","沈發惠"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-12-26"],"gazette_id":"1141201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1141201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案；二、審查\n行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案；三、審查行政\n院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案","agenda_id":"1141201_00002"}}},{"id":"16425","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16425","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dc7e719fa4ce89b4f3fae710ea3aec1ca6d1319bf84c9168213b7edb4d8ffe1aa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T10:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議」案。二、審查行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約」案。三、審查行政院函請審議「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T10:00:02+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T12:19:00+08:00","duration":8338,"影片長度":"02:18:58","委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"以及跟世界各國並肩打擊犯罪的堅強決心。第三、審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請審查行政院函請"},{"start":2714.478,"end":2741.041,"text":"這次條約如果生效的話同樣也是可以未來司法互助的中央主管機關就我國的法務部跟聖露西亞的檢查總署可以不用再迂迴透過外交途徑就可以直接聯繫來傳遞司法互助的請求案那麼也可以擇期舉行諮商會議增進司法互助的項目那麼雙方未來在互助的項目上可以透過私訊的詢問"},{"start":2742.603,"end":2758.363,"text":"等科技方法以及跨國共同偵查犯罪,大幅縮減跨境取證耗費的勞力、時間和費用,來達成共同打擊跨境犯罪提升定罪率的目的。」"},{"start":2759.664,"end":2783.853,"text":"由於聖露西亞地處加勒比海地區與美國以及中南美洲各國鄰近且互動頻繁,我國國人在美國及中南美洲投資、經商、定居求學工作者眾,所以此條約生效後,也有助於強化我國更加深入北洲國家區域的司法合作強度與密度。"},{"start":2787.008,"end":2804.113,"text":"本條約作為我國與交流平台友邦簽署的第二個司法互助條約,深具既往開來之意義,也為我國與友邦間司法合作模式紮根,朝持續拓展、深化與各邦交國在司法互助授權移交、引渡等領域的司法合作關係來邁進,"},{"start":2806.293,"end":2830.784,"text":"這三個條約在各該對方國家的內部、內國程序都已完備所以我們今天說我們大願審議完成生效之後這些條約在我們通知各該國家之後就會立刻來生效所以懇請各位委員大力來支持讓我們的司法互助可以往前邁進謝謝大家謝謝謝謝黃士傑次長"},{"start":2833.649,"end":2859.466,"text":"那其他機關的報告我們就請同仁們參閱書面資料我們就不再上台報告了那接下來開始進行詢答本聯席會委員4加2分鐘非聯席會委員4分鐘我們剛已經宣告11點發言登記截止那再次提醒若有臨時提案請在11點前提出11點半左右本席會試會議狀況來進行處理首先請羅美玲委員上台進行詢答"},{"start":2868.469,"end":2872.922,"text":"謝謝主席,有請外交部林佳龍部長,還有法務部黃士傑次長。"},{"start":2882.723,"end":2910.993,"text":"兩位早安台灣確實跟德國還有吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞的這個刑事司法互助協議如果通過的話呢在我國的這個司法互助上其實就有很大的這個進展跟這個突破那最近的本席有發現就是說荷蘭的眾議院通過了一項友台動議那建議荷蘭政府參考德國的模式也意跟台灣簽署這個刑事司法互助的這個協定並指出"},{"start":2912.013,"end":2936.44,"text":"臺德合作經驗在打擊洗錢、網路犯罪等跨國犯罪領域可以發揮關鍵的作用。」所以我想先請教我們林部長那針對這個荷蘭眾議院的這個動議我們是否已經展開相關的合作的推動因為荷蘭主動提出那我方是不是應該積極來做這個接觸請問這個部分呢我們有沒有進一步的進展好 總委員報告"},{"start":2938.32,"end":2965.888,"text":"在荷蘭眾議院通過這一個動議之後本部就有協助法務部就此來指派專人擔任跟荷方對接的承辦窗口相關資訊也已經通知了駐荷蘭代表處該處也已經跟荷方展開溝通這個模式我們認為很值得來推廣就台德的這個協議進一步再跟歐洲其他我們尤其是這些"},{"start":2967.068,"end":2972.131,"text":"民主法治的國家能夠比照來推動。請問次長有沒有要補充的部分呢?"},{"start":2991.798,"end":3011.839,"text":"謝謝委員觀詢跟詮詢在外交部的協助底下我們也積極回應目前本部的國際及兩岸法律司已經指定跟荷蘭方聯繫窗口所以目前我們會積極的跟外交部一起來洽談我們也希望用最快的速度來促成這個事情的完成"},{"start":3012.419,"end":3036.245,"text":"OK好謝謝次長那我先請外交部先回座那下一個我想要請教的就是說我們法務部那臺灣在這個司法互助方面我們運作基本上是非常的這個穩定可是隨著這個跨國犯罪的案件量的熱議的增長那我們現行的逐案請求模式在程序上面它是比較繁瑣的"},{"start":3037.345,"end":3061.813,"text":"在加三跟合作國家之間可能我們有一些法律體系上面的差異導致在處理資產凍結或是跨國證據調取像這些案件的時候呢效率其實基本上會受到一些限制那像歐盟的這個相互承認原則是一個很值得我們去參考的一個範例那它的關鍵在於就是說成員國之間直接承認彼此的這個司法決定"},{"start":3062.133,"end":3069.136,"text":"函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞"},{"start":3090.006,"end":3090.646,"text":"司法互助協議案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":3106.876,"end":3110.157,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":3134.941,"end":3135.141,"text":"司法協會函請審議"},{"start":3151.56,"end":3170.608,"text":"當然如果你說全面就像市長剛才所講的可能有很多的這個每個國家他的這個機制並不一樣你要達到一個協同的話可能有一些困難度可是我們可以從比如說我剛才所提到的高需求的領域來先做著手我想這個部分的話應該是有可行的空間"},{"start":3170.908,"end":3198.937,"text":"我們都會在跟各個國家在研修、討論簽訂這個司法互助協定的時候都會把剛剛提到的這些委員所指出的非常重要的這些領域納入譬如說我們今天審議的這個臺德司法互助協議裡面我們的第6條就有規定包含這個取得人之共數、收入擴大還有剛剛委員提到的資產凍結跟執行這些部分這個跟犯罪有關的沒收或是追徵以及資產共享"},{"start":3200.998,"end":3223.022,"text":"這部分我們其實都有把它放到這個協定裡面那即使目前還未洽簽協定那我們依據這個各國依照互惠的原則來提出司法互助請求的時候在歐洲的部分事實上目前這個互動的情形也相當的良好所以我們會持續的努力累積這個個案的經驗之後王委員所提出的這個方向來努力"},{"start":3223.522,"end":3248.3,"text":"OK好謝謝市長所以我最後還是要呼籲我們行政部門我們先從現在現有的這個合作基礎來做出發加速推動司法互助的這個升級那在法規的調整跟信任基礎上面能投入更多的資源來讓臺灣在國際舞台上面有更大的這個發揮的這個影響力OK好以上謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝羅美玲委員各位請回接下來進行巡大委員林楚英委員"},{"start":3259.84,"end":3261.925,"text":"謝主席 主席先請外交部林部長來 部長請"},{"start":3270.879,"end":3276.261,"text":"部長長,進入今天的條約簽訂的主題之前,我想要先請問您,我們上個星期五因為這個財政收支劃分法已經重新的來做翻修,那麼我們知道3700億對於整體的中央政府總預算來講大概就是28%的中央政府的可以運用的經費現在必須要依照新法如果總統公告之後,那麼可能會影響到的是中央政府的各個部會"},{"start":3299.491,"end":3323.056,"text":"那麼昨天陸續其實包括像國防部這邊也出估了大概就是有800億的部分那麼包括經濟部啦衛福部都有不知道外交部這邊有沒有來盤點那麼我們知道外交工作有很多的部分其實都是在海外其實不論是我們外交鞏固邦誼或者是拓展我們新的外交關係都是需要的那麼部長有沒有盤點過對於整個外交部的影響是什麼"},{"start":3326.281,"end":3344.989,"text":"跟委員報告外交部有盤點因為外交部主管相關114年度的預算案在稅出編列是319億如果按照這一個三減就扣除掉法律義務支出84億有其他的235億將受到影響因為這樣一比例三減如果是28%的話就是65億"},{"start":3352.612,"end":3378.787,"text":"這個會明顯很直接的衝擊到我們外交工作,特別是在國際組織、交流還有跟友邦的合作計畫。這個都是,尤其是包括我們駐外管處的一些運作當然也都會連帶受到影響。好,那麼我們看到的是最新的財政委員會,下個禮拜開會的時候,他們的召委陳玉珍就已經要求要重新來編訂跟評估,部長怎麼看?"},{"start":3383.831,"end":3397.426,"text":"因為其實這個關鍵在做財劃法的修改跟配套因為它的這個支出跟收入還有相關的一個需要"},{"start":3399.261,"end":3402.646,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":3414.582,"end":3415.803,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事"},{"start":3434.765,"end":3450.401,"text":"那麼信友的福利之外其實國家不論是外交或國防相對的重要在這個部分的影響性我建議部長也必須把它具體化的落實讓民眾知道因為不論國防或外交其實是守護國家非常重要的第一道防線所以在這裡也提醒部長"},{"start":3452.763,"end":3469.523,"text":"因為預期心理,因為這個預算的不確定性,我們很多規劃或很多的要洽商的事情就沒辦法展開,因為公務員是依法行政的,所以這個即使是延後去重新編列,那一拖半年,那我們的政務會受到很大的影響。"},{"start":3469.923,"end":3486.313,"text":"尤其是很多外交工作其實不能等,我們不能跟我們的友邦說,抱歉,你等等一下,我們預算沒有下來,那麼我們到底要怎麼樣處理。所以在這裡,其實對於外交業務的衝擊的部分,外交部也有這個責任,必須要讓全國民眾知道。好,那麼我回到,我們,來下一頁。"},{"start":3488.935,"end":3512.812,"text":"有關於今天我們講到的是三跟三個友邦所簽訂的司法互助的協定那我們都知道其實對於民眾來講公開政府的資訊公開對於民眾相對是非常重要的部長您知道我們現在有多少友邦來簽訂協定嗎我們就是有六個友邦然後有六個不是我們的邦交國好來我要請這個黃政次主席來"},{"start":3517.955,"end":3533.366,"text":"本席在法務部上面的網站目前看到的司法互助跟協定是看到20筆可是在外交部的條約協定的資料庫看到的卻是23筆我想就叫兩位到底誰的哪一邊的資料是正確的好來部長"},{"start":3543.715,"end":3572.839,"text":"因為我們現在是講一些刑事互助方面我剛提到那當然有一些民事還有其他的包括一些合作的一個項目所以說外交部是因為又涵蓋了其他的一些民事上面的部分嗎來,市長因為那個我們跟幾個國家包括越南在內我們另外簽的是民事的司法互助協定"},{"start":3573.439,"end":3573.739,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":3593.666,"end":3609.338,"text":"法務部的網頁沒有錯但是如果跟民事有關會通通涵蓋在外交部這裡但是這個其實會讓民眾會有一些產生一些confuse包括本席在了解的時候就會覺得說怎麼會一個是20筆一個是23筆那麼我認為讓民眾來查詢也了解自己的權利是蠻重要的在這個部分建議用一個更有效的方式來公開讓民眾來了解"},{"start":3619.745,"end":3646.419,"text":"那我們回去之後研議一下看是不是要跟外交部來投布當然這個事涉這個權管所以我們還是要跟這個外交部來討論一下也許全部都由外交部來公布或是怎麼樣那我覺得這個其實是可以好好來研議最後一點點時間我要問的就是剛剛有講到台核那麼本席因為是台法的國會聯誼會的會長法國這裡其實也在關心司法互助的進度那麼不知道現在台法之間的司法互助有沒有什麼新的進度"},{"start":3647.379,"end":3672.319,"text":"跟委員報告因為法方目前在積極跟我們洽談受刑人移交相關的協議因為雙方從107年開始討論到現在還有一些關鍵的問題還在洽談當中因為現在法方比較積極所以我們也會跟外交部這邊協同用最快的速度積極來辦理相關的事務"},{"start":3673.08,"end":3673.38,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":3702.731,"end":3702.751,"text":"審議案。"},{"start":3717.457,"end":3734.343,"text":"部長早部長我們在今天主要是外交部報告有三個跟國外政府簽訂的條約協議那其中一項是中華民國臺灣政府跟聖露西亞政府刑事司法"},{"start":3735.063,"end":3738.784,"text":"政府互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議．臺灣．政府互助條約案。"},{"start":3762.662,"end":3791.33,"text":"涉嫌進行販毒,所以遭美方的司法部門逮捕。」那這個案子有結果了嗎?這個案子就是美方在偵辦中。可是他有認罪了。對。對,他有認罪了。那剛剛我們在從辦公室過來之前,我們還是看到聖露西亞的那個官方網站上面還放著就是我們派的這一位外交"},{"start":3792.677,"end":3796.118,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":3819.548,"end":3821.572,"text":"進行當中,我們是不是今天在簽這個報告的內容跟聖露西亞是不是我們應該讓他們很清楚的知道,這個應該不要放在網站上了。"},{"start":3835.053,"end":3862.685,"text":"當然聖露西亞方面都了解我們有跟他保持聯繫我請我同仁來說明一下為什麼沒有在他上面呈現首先先跟委員報告這個案子從案發一開始我們就透過駐外管處我們聖露西亞大使館已經跟聖露政府已經保持密切的聯繫但是之前案情在進行當中所以聖露西亞完全知情那相關的進展我們也有跟聖露西亞保持雙向的溝通"},{"start":3863.405,"end":3863.726,"text":"報告委員 報告委員"},{"start":3878.567,"end":3881.128,"text":"聖露西亞大使館和聖國政府有保持密切聯繫有部分要跟委員澄清的是我們的替代藝男被領選進來去參與我們的外交替代藝男的這個業務的時候其實是經過公開領選的"},{"start":3897.515,"end":3899.636,"text":"這個過程沒有關係聽我講完我沒有要聽你解釋前面的這一段因為也許我們不知道可是當他被美國逮捕以後我們有義務要告訴聖露西亞因為他就是我們的邦交國而且你今天拿出來的"},{"start":3917.407,"end":3917.747,"text":"司法互助條約案。"},{"start":3934.518,"end":3938.302,"text":"我們已經告訴聖露西亞大使館已經有告訴聖露西亞大使館在把最新的這個狀況告訴的我們最新的狀況其實昨天的公文就已經出去了"},{"start":3952.517,"end":3953.058,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":3970.277,"end":3974.378,"text":"如果我們都知道不會外交部不知道今天因為這個還我們推薦的人剛開始我們不知道那個沒話說可是他已經被美國逮捕然後他已經在司法進行當中他可能很快就會受到審判那在這個過程當中我們就應該要很明確的告訴他這個人並不是適合放在官方網站上面因為那一篇也是我們寫給他們的"},{"start":3997.225,"end":4000.39,"text":"他們在不知情的情況之下他們也放在上面我們是去教人家的警察做這些事所以很負責任的去告訴聖露西亞不然你今天這個非常的諷刺今天我們提出來要審這個"},{"start":4012.709,"end":4019.973,"text":"司法互助是非常諷刺的因為我們沒有好好的去告知人家這個部分我們希望馬上就看到結果因為我來之前還在網站上面還看到這個是第一個接下來我們希望馬上可以處理喔因為你禮拜五才發信而已部長這個再請您可以去詳細的了解一下不然我覺得我們今天審這個真的是沒有意義那第二個我想要請教的是"},{"start":4041.044,"end":4049.309,"text":"部長我們一般外交豁免權大概指豁免什麼?就是在雙邊的條件之下?當然除了對於像當然是稅的問題啦、車牌啦還有其他我想豁免就是以外交管轄權的有一些涉及的司法等等"},{"start":4062.658,"end":4069.304,"text":"這個部分因為可能沒有辦法很完整的說明清楚那是不是就外交部在非邦交國的這個駐外管人員我們想要知道的是哪些國家是具有完整的外交豁免權哪一些國家是只有部分的豁免權或者哪一些國家是完全沒有的是不是請外交部可以提供相關的資料給本席"},{"start":4089.881,"end":4093.505,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。"},{"start":4105.177,"end":4108.079,"text":"我們大概要知道說有哪些啦不好意思主席借一點點時間因為我們在預算審查的時候也有提到因為我們也覺得這個非常重要就是我們中東的三個國家"},{"start":4125.752,"end":4133.297,"text":"是有正式派駐代表在我們這裡,雖然是屬於經貿類的,可是雙方也非常長的時間,甚至不管是在軍事或者公共安全,甚至教育交流的部分,其實都維持很長的時間,像約旦,而且我們有很多如果要學阿語的部分,其實也都是送到約旦去那裡受訓的,包括我們的軍方人員。"},{"start":4151.87,"end":4159.677,"text":"所以在這裡我們要看到就是說我想要請教之前因為商會的部分目前的處理結果怎麼樣我們除了就是"},{"start":4165.793,"end":4174.038,"text":"對外交特權的保障：立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會"},{"start":4192.668,"end":4213.562,"text":"因為這三個不太一樣,那我們也都有在做,其實都把它當作是,就是駐台的這個有嘛,有嘛,有跟警察單位講了,可是他們可能沒有接到警察單位約談的時候,我們第一時間就有,就有出面可是你要讓,對,應該要讓他們知道要持續跟三個駐台的單位保持聯絡關懷他們"},{"start":4218.565,"end":4231.075,"text":"現在我們特別再提出來是因為他們完全沒有接到相關的訊息所以我們在雙方雙邊的這樣子的交流互動上面可能有一些問題應該是有啦因為我有責成我們同仁要跟他們保持聯繫關懷沒有關係除了外交部的部分可能有涉及內政部或警政署我們也一定都要來關心請把書面資料提供給本席就是我們有通知我們的作為啦關心然後協助"},{"start":4246.007,"end":4250.851,"text":"另外還有對內的商會我們的做法是什麼因為他甚至用這樣公開的名義去募款在國內募款都已經是違法可是他用商會的名義去對外募款包括我們的邦交國這樣會造成誤導這個部分我們到底有什麼樣的做法也請提供書面資料給本席那最後我想要強調的是我想要請教就是我們現在駐約旦安曼的"},{"start":4272.566,"end":4296.481,"text":"那個代表處現在住的那個住處是怎麼來的目前有人知道嗎約旦安曼的那個那個代表處長久以來就有我們的市長對我知道是舊的那個是怎麼來的你知道嗎有人知道嗎買的租的借的對是買的租的還是什麼現在是我們的自由管社對啊那是怎麼來的"},{"start":4297.785,"end":4301.246,"text":"是當時雙邊的政府經過這個協議約單的政府送的嘛對不對今天如果人家過去我們現在要買都花很多的錢現在都花很多的錢我們希望就這個部分我們應該怎麼樣對等的互惠尤其怎麼樣保障他們在這裡的安全跟權益我想這個是我們應該要做的好不好"},{"start":4322.475,"end":4329.861,"text":"審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約。"},{"start":4360.8,"end":4387.631,"text":"主席請外交部林部長來,部長請部長委員好辛苦啦,終於等到你啦我也是啦你也是啦12月24號外交部發了一個新聞送給國人一個很大的禮物部長記得是什麼事嗎?"},{"start":4389.519,"end":4392.261,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事"},{"start":4412.269,"end":4425.818,"text":"跟外交的記者我們辦了一個活動是你們今年有試辦一個有條件線上身外護照辦簽證護照那你們24號有宣布從明年的1月1號開始試辦擴大然後沒有上線了就沒有每日申請的上線了這個要讓國人知道"},{"start":4439.471,"end":4440.932,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":4457.538,"end":4470.36,"text":"那針對今天的題目啊三個國家我們簽了這個協議站在外交部的立場有沒有發現這三個國家簽了協議的名字都不一樣是"},{"start":4472.558,"end":4493.96,"text":"當然因為有涉及到條約、協定或協議或其他的各種的名詞當然也涉及到有沒有正式的外交關係基本上效率是一致的每個國家的程序又不太一樣像我們臺德就是謝大使簽的"},{"start":4495.121,"end":4507.249,"text":"然後呢我們跟吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞是我們的法務部長簽的那我想請教一下就是說這個過程中,這個要請法務部黃執長請問一下實務上,因為我們現在簽的國家看起來很少,有簽跟沒簽的差別到底在哪裡?"},{"start":4520.123,"end":4532.97,"text":"這個分這個不同的性質,假設我們跟邦交國所簽的協議的話,譬如說我們常常在這個電視上看到這個壓解,有一些國家就詐騙了,全部帶回來了。"},{"start":4535.211,"end":4563.406,"text":"那些國家我看起來也沒有在這個簽的名單裡頭嘛所以有簽跟沒簽到底差別在哪裡?最大的差別就是說就條約裡面所規定的司法互助項目就不需要再透過外交的途徑以及互惠原則而可以直接依照這個協定由雙邊的司法主管機關就是指定條約裡面指定的司法主管機關來提出司法互助的請求所以在執行上面會更有效率"},{"start":4563.766,"end":4583.974,"text":"如果就有約定的項目,也會更加的確保,一定可以成功完成司法互助的工作。那這些條約的內容,我看到我們的邦交國,那兩個邦交國,就吐瓦魯跟聖露西亞這兩個邦交國,條文的內容幾乎一模一樣,所以顯然應該就是我們法務部主導的條文內容。"},{"start":4585.956,"end":4609.306,"text":"這個其實在國際上都有這個相關的這個慣例可是我們跟德國就不一樣對對對因為他們跟他們可能有不同的這個要求因為德國跟很多國家有簽啊是是是所以我們要跟他簽我們要跟他們跟別的國家簽的所以為什麼跟每個國家簽的時候都要個別去磋商好那我請問一下我們跟我們的邦交國的這些文字是不是基本上都長一樣"},{"start":4617.439,"end":4628.967,"text":"市長,所有條約或協定都是跟該國所協商、洽商的結果內容,所以我們跟邦交國所簽的也許大同小異,但是也是會有些微的不一樣。"},{"start":4630.578,"end":4653.431,"text":"最後我請教一下這一個柯文哲案,裡頭有一個叫橘子的徐子瑜,現在不知道他人一對,如果他在的國家被我們法務部知道他在哪裡了,假設啦,假設知道在哪裡,我們沒有跟他簽協議,就要透過外交管道是不是,你們就沒辦法去處理是不是。"},{"start":4654.401,"end":4677.648,"text":"我們這個部分等一下可能可以請調查局來說明就是境外的這個國人假設是有通緝的情形那我們駐外的法務秘書或是說相關的警務合作的這個狀況也都可以直接來做這個協詢但是呢如果確定找到人之後可能還是要透過司法互助的管道來做這個相關的這個下談"},{"start":4679.165,"end":4690.424,"text":"對那所以說如果沒有跟我們有這一種互助的這一種關係的話那還是要透過外交的管道還是要透過外交所以就會拖比較長的時間程序會比較複雜"},{"start":4691.89,"end":4718.227,"text":"就是比較間接合作的項目因為沒有協定來規定所以這個合作項目對方是否同意就要跟他們磋商那我們現階段就是說這個可能你們在進行中也不好意思透現階段我們還是會跟很多不是我們的邦交國在陸續在談這些的內容對不對那只要成果就會跟國人做報告好大家辛苦啦好謝謝各位好謝謝委員"},{"start":4719.488,"end":4739.51,"text":"好,謝謝王一川委員,各位請回。好,接下來進行詢問委員是陳冠廷委員。你好,我們請部長。來,部長請。"},{"start":4749.234,"end":4773.409,"text":"今天除了就條約地結案之外我可能也會就美國的最新的政情來跟你請教一下這個條約地結案剛才這個委員有提到的一些部分那不管是用協定還是不用慣例採用的一些邦交的詞彙條約、協定那是不是因為說會因為邦誼的狀況不同受中國的影響然後去做例外的使用"},{"start":4777.478,"end":4785.909,"text":"會不會因為邦誼有狀況受中國影響,所以有些可能條約變成協定,協定變成其他的說法,這種可能性是有沒有存在的?"},{"start":4786.496,"end":4809.841,"text":"我想在邦交國方面是都以條約、協定為主至於說非邦交國不敢用協議或其他互助的什麼樣的一個方式這當然有他們國內法可能在要不要經過一個什麼樣的立法程序包括國會用的名稱包括簽署的單位"},{"start":4812.679,"end":4814.26,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":4827.977,"end":4851.37,"text":"西班牙裔背景的犯罪者在臺灣,我們後來遣返是透過德國。」我的意思是說在條約的過程當中在審議或者是對方在外交管道在交流的時候有沒有可能藉此得知說可能這一個國家邦誼狀況有問題所以說他開始把一些用字從條約協定再往下降"},{"start":4852.15,"end":4859.841,"text":"你們有沒有過去有這樣的經驗?這事樣是不是也可以成為一種對於邦交國開始受到影響的一個評估的一個方式?"},{"start":4861.072,"end":4889.022,"text":"我想在邦交國方面洽簽因為既然有邦交那當然沒邦交或是因為有邦交後來斷交而維持原來的這個互助的條約或協定或其他的名稱那因為當時有簽嘛這是有效那是不是要改簽因為它的效力如果沒有排除說因為沒邦交就自動失效的話那還是在有效中像諾魯就是一個例子"},{"start":4889.722,"end":4890.563,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":4914.11,"end":4935.097,"text":"美國自己本身就要退出的話那我們應該要怎麼辦?所以臺灣要怎麼樣應對這樣子如果美國退出之後的新局?當然外面有一些報導說是不是因為這樣子WHO裡面中國的影響力會增加這值得觀察不過我想如果說美國退出另外成立一個比較國際性的衛生組織那臺灣應該是要第一個報名"},{"start":4940.905,"end":4942.448,"text":"有聽到這樣的說法嗎?因為這個在他的這個就是trust social那個"},{"start":4951.872,"end":4952.912,"text":"函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事"},{"start":4975.201,"end":4985.607,"text":"因為WHO是他點名過而且他是第一任的時候也就是說要退出後來沒有完成整個程序那我們密切觀察因為我們不是WHA這個大會的這個會員國"},{"start":4990.31,"end":5001.845,"text":"不過我們也是積極在爭取參加可是如果有其他的世界衛生組織要成立以美國為主那我們也是理念相近我們也期待我們臺灣能夠一起來推動成立跟參與"},{"start":5006.471,"end":5007.392,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":5025.234,"end":5031.316,"text":"函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約。"},{"start":5051.243,"end":5054.553,"text":"國際上面的論述的方式是不是要隨之改變?你怎麼看?"},{"start":5056.525,"end":5079.371,"text":"我想不管是臺海或俄烏戰爭之間是互相影響那我們對裡面相近國家被侵略我們當然是會表達支持可是同樣的臺海因為這些安全的問題那當然有關臺灣的生存跟發展所以我們自己要強化這個國防也要跟美國加強合作"},{"start":5085.913,"end":5108.825,"text":"這一個我們必須要承擔起臺灣應該承擔這個保衛自己的一個責任那當然也跟美國基於臺灣關係法我們的這一些不管安全還有各方面的合作也是要加強我想我們是更加應該為了要走向更現實主義因為他直接引用我們之前的前外長的這個文章"},{"start":5109.545,"end":5109.765,"text":"防禦臺灣,防禦烏克蘭。」"},{"start":5126.579,"end":5127.359,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":5147.825,"end":5149.646,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":5181.621,"end":5182.742,"text":"有請司法院"},{"start":5202.734,"end":5229.721,"text":"那因為現在已經進行了這一些相關的這個我想說就內容部分我們就我覺得不多看了因為這個畢竟其實應該都是蠻公版的東西那因為我們現在就是要跟這些友邦也包含新南向的政策國家簽訂這一些所以我有些小細節想要問第一個就是目前來講就是我們目前這個遣送中國的這個問題就是說像之前西班牙什麼等等之類的有些國家他們會直接把人送到中國去"},{"start":5230.521,"end":5250.45,"text":"那通常我們知道就是說當然透過一些外交手段等等之類的我會想要阻止這件事情發生那現在就是因為這個是近期之內又有一個這個相關的案件然後呢也是一樣就這個陳姓女子在這個菲律賓發生的案件也被要引渡到中國那目前我們這件事情這一類事情的處理機制大概是如何?好看?"},{"start":5255.27,"end":5256.351,"text":"韓國目前尚未作出要如何處置的最終決定"},{"start":5275.147,"end":5294.494,"text":"在司法互助的請求上面因為本案在我國的檢察機關有立案但是目前尚未接到檢察機關向本部提出司法互助的請求以上狀況跟委員報告因為我現在比較擔心的就是說因為現在中國除了這一類跟詐騙有關的案件之外因為中國畢竟還是會有很多政治的理由比如說台獨22條什麼之類的"},{"start":5296.275,"end":5296.696,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":5310.214,"end":5336.182,"text":"因為司法互助本質上它也是偵查作為的延伸所以我們基於法務行政的立場我們還是以這個檢察機關或是司法檢察機關它有這個做偵查的這個動作的請求的時候我們才會去啟動相關的機制那如果沒有的話其實是不會那所以如果說剛委員所提到的問題理論上應該比較像是這個外交部的這個權責並不是我們法務部去主動發動的部分這樣"},{"start":5338.763,"end":5356.611,"text":"因為這邊我有放一些法務部的資料就是說這個海峽兩岸這個共同打擊犯罪司法互助協議那現在當然就是說這個我們臺灣其實是很積極向中國在通報的但是反過來講他們常常是遺讀不回他們的法治畢竟跟我們來講還是有一個很大程度的落差"},{"start":5357.171,"end":5375.613,"text":"我現在當然擔心的是兩個,一個就是我們要求的他們不會做到,但他們自己會去做一些有的沒的在其他國家的執法。所以這兩個問題,剛剛有講,第二個我講的這個可能是外交部目前還是比較在著重的。但第一個部分就是說我們去要求,或者我們需要什麼東西,在那邊是拿不到的,那這個狀況現在也是蠻嚴峻的。"},{"start":5378.536,"end":5403.569,"text":"這個部分細節我等一下再請司長來描述但事實上兩岸司法共打的互助協議並沒有中斷也沒有中止我們還是持續互相還是有很多的案件在做往來當然這個有點不對稱的狀況這個可能也是事實但是我還是請司長來跟我們報告一下現在狀況到底是如何"},{"start":5403.649,"end":5406.511,"text":"我看到司法院的書面報告有問到有傳譯的需求、依相關規定、有同意。因為我們現在做這個事情,它一定會有一些視訊等等之類的,同意變得很重要。"},{"start":5426.286,"end":5447.174,"text":"那我關於我們現在要討論的這個案件的同意我待會再問我想先比較general問的就是說我們現在選任同意相關的一些問題那我最主要是想問第二個就是我們現在有時候在翻譯的時候翻了證人的話或者說這一個法官問的問題但他有時候對於其他人講了什麼有時候並沒有辦法如實的一個掌握"},{"start":5447.654,"end":5454.175,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":5477.819,"end":5489.686,"text":"因為我覺得這一個我們整體進展方向會影響到之後我們在簽了這些條約跟協定的時候我們畢竟開始會有視訊嘛我們會有更多其他的國家所以我們原本做得好不好一定會影響到後面這件事情"},{"start":5490.996,"end":5516.035,"text":"是,謝謝委員的關心那像關於這個同意的部分的話目前來講的話像我們法院的話會有一些是有一些特約同意在那這些特約同意他本身必須要語言能力達到中級以上的程度那如果說有的不見得是可以達到這個部分我們還會看他說有沒有在他們那個國家連續居住滿5年的這些相關證明還有甚至有大學或獨立學院的那些語文、翻譯系等這些如果還有這個資格的話這個部分我們都會一併審認"},{"start":5518.837,"end":5522.741,"text":"對對對那這個非常謝謝委員關係我們也是很重視這一塊如果說這邊翻譯不確實的話其實對於當事人權益其實會有很大的侵害所以我們在這個翻譯的這邊的訓練上我們這裡都有在加強那在篩選上我們都會注意他相關的資格這樣子"},{"start":5534.855,"end":5535.236,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":5550.359,"end":5577.29,"text":"譬如說他在審判前他會收到這些東西他有沒有辦法好好的閱讀這當然我們是希望說他自己有一些律師但他不一定有相關的人可以幫助他所以要怎麼樣讓他可以比較順暢的走完這一個整個司法的程序這個會影響到我們之後這個視訊相關的就是我們後面講到的我有看到這一個有視訊訊問啊U會議啊微軟teams我有看到這一些嘛所以希望能夠持續的加強原來的作為那這樣的話我們簽這個也才會有意義啦"},{"start":5577.85,"end":5579.831,"text":"謝謝主席我們請王定宇委員謝謝主席,麻煩外交部長、法務部次長以及警政署副署長警部長、次長、署長"},{"start":5614.283,"end":5639.463,"text":"時間有限,幾個問題就交於三位第一個,剛才外交部長提到一個案例有一位西班牙的性犯罪者在台灣那前一段時間媒體也報得很大我剛才聽到是我們是經由跟德國的合作由德國來處理這個遣送引渡的問題嗎?對我這樣理解沒有錯嗎?對那我請教三位我們今天如果跟德國的司法互助、刑事司法互助"},{"start":5640.578,"end":5642.46,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":5668.2,"end":5681.446,"text":"黃市長跟我們報告因為我們基本上簽的還是都是雙邊的協定當然這還是要看說因為剛我有在報告的過程中提到說其實司法互助基本上還是偵查"},{"start":5682.926,"end":5707.354,"text":"審判的作為。所以還是要依照相關的國家有沒有提出這個請求。所以說,如果我在歐盟內部...這個是bilateral,然後用法律的架構嘛。但是我剛才聽到的是西班牙這個案例,我當然細節不了解。我的意思是說,因為歐盟是一個統合的區域,高度統合的區域。那臺灣要一國一國來簽司法互助,顯然也有一些困難,時間要花很久。"},{"start":5707.974,"end":5727.599,"text":"那如果這個模式對打擊犯罪或保障我們受害人有所幫助的話這個模式倒不失為一個方式也許藉由特定國家已經簽署協定的雙方有個默契當然不是每個案子嘛有些比較重要的案子可以透過這樣子間接嫁接的方式來處理歐盟這塊"},{"start":5729.26,"end":5753.492,"text":"在個案上如果德國或是我們有洽簽的國家以及有這個需求的歐盟的其他國家他們有這個意願的話我們當然就是有可能可以透過這個模式在處理但是再來是要個案上去看各個國家的意願這是一個方法但不見得每次都走得通這樣講比較對嘛那另外你剛有提到因為我們跟外國簽訂的司法互助其中跟中國的共打是其中一項嘛"},{"start":5754.753,"end":5782.483,"text":"到今天為止,到今年為止,這個共打有沒有在執行?好,我請司長來說明目前的現狀。來,儘快。這個仍然繼續執行中。今年執行了幾個案例?因為我們跟這個大陸地區的這個司法互助的這個項目有非常的多,有包含了這個文書送達、調查取證、人身自由通報等等。在共打範圍內,第一個我的問題是,是雙項都有在執行還是單項執行?"},{"start":5783.843,"end":5783.863,"text":"函請審議"},{"start":5801.637,"end":5802.538,"text":"警政署副處長"},{"start":5818.197,"end":5843.789,"text":"我們簽訂這些刑事司法互助之後因為現在有一些犯罪是跨境的特別是網路的犯罪那網路的犯罪可能到一般的毀謗高到金融詐騙等等簽訂這個司法互助之後對我們警政署執行跨越國境的網路的他的IP跳接VPN的在執行上有什麼幫助"},{"start":5845.305,"end":5860.219,"text":"當然司法互助的作用當然是比較大那另外我們警政署跟其他的國家也另外會跟這些國家警察對警察會簽訂備忘錄跟合作協定現在有一些IP他是跳來跳去的羅馬尼亞達尼都跳到臺灣來有的是詐騙"},{"start":5864.082,"end":5893.206,"text":"有的可能是對個人的毀謗等等那有時候我們以前講進外的我們沒辦法處理我們可以理解也許在中國的比較難處理但其他國家如果有這樣的合作方案我倒建議警政署應該讓受害者知道說我好難受啊不會遇到他在國外我就一籌莫展政府還是存在政府還是會做事的所以是可以執行的對不對OK好那警政署先請回我最後請教外交部跟法務部我這邊有一個表你可以看到"},{"start":5893.806,"end":5917.698,"text":"我們國家跟各國簽訂司法互助協定的國家在左側這邊你可以看得到那今天會增加吐瓦魯、聖露西亞等等但是我另外右邊這個表示我們國人經常訪問的前十大的國家不管是軍、商、房、旅遊或者去讀書等等很多都還是否、像日本還是否"},{"start":5918.578,"end":5927.127,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":5941.824,"end":5966.73,"text":"跟委員報告,剛剛所提到這個國家裡面,那我們今天第二局的報告也有提到,在簽訂,當然我們會盡力,全力都去掐簽正式的這個司法互助協定,但是在協定之前,我們其實也已經跟日本、韓國都已經推動完整備忘錄的這個簽訂。所以我們如果有通緝犯,現在在日本、韓國,我們是有辦法引渡回來的嗎?"},{"start":5967.11,"end":5971.363,"text":"我們就是透過這個司法互助的請求在互惠原則底下"},{"start":5975.782,"end":5984.924,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。二、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）"},{"start":6006.894,"end":6032.771,"text":"謝謝王定義委員現在進行詢問委員吳思耀委員謝謝主席有請林佳龍部長來部長請然後士傑次長來次長"},{"start":6037.947,"end":6046.956,"text":"好,大家辛苦。我就接著剛剛定宇、趙薇所說的,來稍後一下。同樣的來下一頁。依據國際刑事司法互助法,我們來討論今天新增的三個簽訂,來下一頁。我去整理了,現在台灣12個國家來簽訂刑事司法的互助。"},{"start":6061.894,"end":6066.698,"text":"那我針對不同的執政時期大家簽訂的成果"},{"start":6070.362,"end":6091.542,"text":"陳水扁總統的時候,我們那時候簽一國,應該是美國。馬英九總統的時候,我們簽訂了菲律賓跟南非兩個國家。在蔡英文總統任內,其實是6加3。從波蘭、諾魯、貝里斯、斯洛伐克、聖文森、帛琉,然後再加上今天我們這裡要完成程序的,所以是6加3。"},{"start":6093.163,"end":6093.183,"text":"函請審議"},{"start":6111.382,"end":6127.651,"text":"詐騙集團國際刑的偵辦。」所以就事實會說話這幾年民進黨執政我們確實非常的努力我大於肯定下一頁那剛剛順著定宇昭偉所說的他剛剛所做的表格其實跟我這一頁是相仿的"},{"start":6128.191,"end":6143.507,"text":"就是不管是input output、國人出訪或者是來臺旅客的國別統計當中這些前幾名的國家裡頭我們確實都還有要努力積極去洽簽司法互助的國家"},{"start":6145.568,"end":6160.393,"text":"審議。我特別又針對我們臺灣的對內外投資的主要國家以及進出口貿易的主要國家畢竟商務上的一些案件發生也非常多所以說優先爭取簽訂刑事司法互助的對象呢其實從剛剛的國人的出訪或來訪以及我們的商務的往來其實都很清楚的訂定了一個優先"},{"start":6172.577,"end":6178.4,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":6192.025,"end":6195.406,"text":"司法及國防、司法及法制委員會提供的報告。三、審查行政院函請審議．立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會提供的報告。四、審查行政院函請審議．立法院提供的報告。"},{"start":6212.791,"end":6225.972,"text":"我過去從文化部門去推文化外交,但是外交部絕對需要強強聯手,尤其Team Taiwan,Team Taiwan被世界看見的時候,文化就是最好的一個有效的工具。"},{"start":6227.783,"end":6253.445,"text":"Unesco世界遺產,不管是物質或非物質的,臺灣所定加入Unesco或其相關的國際組織,為了讓臺灣的遺產也成為世界的遺產,我分別在上一屆,針對不同的文化部長,也針對不同的行政院院長,從陳建仁到卓榮泰,都say yes。」那我把進度跟您報告,下一頁。"},{"start":6255.017,"end":6273.806,"text":"身列世界文化遺產分有形文資跟無形文資,這個大家很清楚,過去我們琢磨比較多在有形文資,事實上無形文資是現在UNESCO在世界各國推動世界文化遺產最主力的,也就是軟大於硬,而不是過去都是有形的文資。"},{"start":6275.529,"end":6293.014,"text":"所以說呢在我的催生跟要求之下曾經一度停擺的有形文化資產的世界遺產推動會我們終於重組了我謝謝李永德部長、史哲部長到現在的李遠部長所以在這個有形文字的世界遺產推動會重啟之後我們開了兩次會我很快的跟部長報告重要的結論也就是將"},{"start":6301.713,"end":6317.216,"text":"努力加入UNESCO或是其相關的周邊組織,要列為我國外交的重要工作。就如同我們過去WHO、WHA國際刑警組織,我們要把UNESCO教科文的力量作為重點的這個target。"},{"start":6318.317,"end":6344.264,"text":"然後我們要建立跨部會的機制因為以前只有文化部自己很辛苦他需要外交部的助力而且不只外交部要跨部會第三個要擴大產官學研我們的學界要善用他們的力量確實透過國際的論壇我們在跟世界的有形無形的文化資產有很多的互動要給予資源舉辦活動或者是送人出去參加國際的Foreign Conference"},{"start":6344.904,"end":6353.985,"text":"第四、很具體的,我們針對深烈世界文化影響,我們訂定共同訂定了以臺灣的阿里山森林鐵路作為一個最有力的"},{"start":6355.071,"end":6382.097,"text":"必其功於一役。」過去我們有18個世界遺產的潛力點,我們現在把它聚焦在阿里山領帖。所以我,我知道您非常忙,我跟您報告,所以這是我們重點的部分在世界文化遺產的委員會跨部會組成產官學研的第一個大的結論。好,下一頁,下一頁。非物質,我也非常感謝,在我要求之後,中央文化部主責針對非物質文化遺產也組成了推動會。"},{"start":6384.538,"end":6408.095,"text":"剛剛講的阿里山靈鐵那個是有形文化遺產現在無形文化遺產也跟您報告我們優先去參與ICTM就是國際傳統音樂學會讓臺灣的音樂可以打頭風第二個一樣要建立跨部會以及地方政府的溝通平台第三個優先推動的項目是無形文化遺產的紙紮跟塞夏族的矮靈祭"},{"start":6413.919,"end":6433.393,"text":"第四、飲食文化會是臺灣邁向世界文化遺產很有利的一個有賣點的潛力項目。我今天用這個時間我跟您報告下一頁,就是我努力到現在,跨部會集合了、集結了"},{"start":6434.454,"end":6449.01,"text":"文化部繼續再推需要外交部強強聯手還有跨部會跟地方政府我借用這個寶貴的時間拋出來下個會期或在審預算我都會努力的就交於您OK嗎"},{"start":6451.668,"end":6453.269,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":6467.042,"end":6487.298,"text":"司法及國防部負責觀光,現在到外交部,剛好可以把委員關心的一起串聯起來。所以您是key person,我需要有具體的進度,未來再做探討。好,謝謝主席。歡迎下個會期來我們委員會,歡迎。好,謝謝主席的邀請,謝謝。來,下一個進行訓導委員,徐巧欣委員。"},{"start":6500.131,"end":6501.419,"text":"謝謝主席,我們有請林佳龍部長。"},{"start":6511.304,"end":6539.011,"text":"部長好這次簽訂德國跟吐瓦魯、聖露西亞三國的司法互助條約本席認為是非常好的一個方向簽訂越多的司法互助條約對於未來不管是打詐、人口販運或者是人在國外但是對台灣的民眾進行詐騙而找不到人的這種詐騙整體集團的情形能夠獲得改善的話對國人無疑是一大助力"},{"start":6539.651,"end":6560.81,"text":"對我國的司法體系、典調單位來說有很大的幫助。」但是我要特別問的事情是喔,部長,就您的掌握呢,在臺灣喔,就說在臺灣我們受到國外的這個詐騙,就是說有的是臺灣人在國外然後呢回來詐騙,然後有的是外國人在國外詐騙,這個最多的是在哪一個區域?部長,東南亞"},{"start":6564.369,"end":6566.33,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事"},{"start":6584.929,"end":6599.108,"text":"因為柬埔寨是放在越南我們俠館嘛我請我們亞太司來說明說明一下柬埔寨的部分因為大家都很關心先前很多人他們被騙工作然後到柬埔寨去有的是知道自己要去做詐騙集團但是呢無論如何"},{"start":6601.792,"end":6602.652,"text":"司法及法制委員會函請審議。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":6619.228,"end":6644.978,"text":"報告委員因為柬埔寨我們並沒有任何的代表處跟辦事處所以我們是由在越南的駐胡志明辦事處來監俠那我們那邊也有法務部派遣的人員駐外所以只要碰到這一類的情況都是由外交部跟法務部協同然後當地也有一些台商那麼透過各種不同的管道想辦法去營救我們受到詐騙"},{"start":6646.358,"end":6672.807,"text":"現在目前的情況是這樣,除了越南之外,也跟部長報告一下,泰國也有在協助這些柬埔寨的這個國人,泰國跟越南都有,可是幾乎都是請我們的台商幫忙。所以就是說除了台商之外,我覺得呢,我們現在在越南有嘛,在泰國也有嘛,那我們應該要更積極的針對柬埔寨的部分,因為這個在柬埔寨來說的話呢,我們可以看到非常多的新聞,那都是這個,我們其實陸委會也有"},{"start":6673.928,"end":6677.711,"text":"呼籲要合作來調查跟中國大陸這邊來調查柬埔寨的這個情況然後包含柬埔寨的這個人口販運鏈那臺灣的公權力是沒有辦法去企及的這部分我也希望外交部能夠多加重視因為這個事關我國國人的人權"},{"start":6691.565,"end":6713.923,"text":"不管他今天是去大陸,他今天是選元普賽他要做什麼,他是被騙還是他其實自己知道但他被箝制人身自由甚至遭到凌虐的事情我都希望外交部這邊能夠更積極的做處置好,那最後我要特別提醒一件事情就是部長,外交部的網頁一般來說它的維護資訊跟更新頻率為何?您大概知道嗎?"},{"start":6715.051,"end":6716.992,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":6736.698,"end":6755.019,"text":"那我們點進去看這個外交部的駐臺使館裡面呢巴拉圭的網站看起來像是設計得很好的樣子但是呢從我們的外交部的官網提供的吐瓦魯駐中華民國大使館的官網您知道嗎變成賭博網站來我們看一下"},{"start":6756.76,"end":6771.753,"text":"好,這個他是可以播放的嗎?你直接點好了,點給大家看一下。我們駐台使館,然後因為今天討論到吐瓦魯嘛,所以我在這個吐瓦魯我們這個之前我就先去看了一下他們的網址,我們從外交部上面會發生什麼事情。"},{"start":6773.374,"end":6774.215,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":6791.829,"end":6795.332,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":6812.335,"end":6823.961,"text":"我們部長可不可以回答一下我剛剛是現場操作給你看已經不是截圖了我們剛剛是現場操作給你看我們外交部的網站連到吐瓦魯的官方網站說是吐瓦魯國的大使館連進去之後是這個"},{"start":6828.132,"end":6843.608,"text":"我們來查明你不用查明了我剛剛查明給你看了你要告訴我你要如何處置好不好因為剛剛要查明的部分來我們再操作一次我再查明一次給你看來再貼一次那個網址我們現在查明查明是這樣查明的就是先到外交部"},{"start":6844.895,"end":6845.176,"text":"二、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":6867.275,"end":6872.66,"text":"我的意思是說如果我們今天要跟人家去簽這個條約的話是不是我們外交部要優先來處理一下我們的這個使館已經變成這樣的情形好不好這個沒有什麼好說的啦就也不用特別回他們的使館啦但我們也是要幫忙不是啦因為我們這個互助都簽了嘛那你這樣子變成說這是博弈網站那我們第一件事情就來處理這個嘛這個查處結果趕快回覆"},{"start":6890.854,"end":6899.556,"text":"對,你連這都沒處理好,那我很難相信說這一份條約有什麼效好,謝謝部長,謝謝好,謝謝委員提醒我們來查明之後來處理啦你們要先確認那個連結有沒有問題那如果沒有問題是幫官方網站出了問題那儘速回覆本委員會,謝謝"},{"start":6910.879,"end":6928.958,"text":"回覆先給那個諮詢委員好,接下來進行詢答委員翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在陳俊宇委員陳俊宇委員陳俊宇委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在莊瑞雄委員莊瑞雄委員不在林益君委員請詢答"},{"start":6942.435,"end":6943.716,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長部長你好"},{"start":6960.82,"end":6975.039,"text":"那請問首先我想請問你就是說你知道103年5月的時候馬英九總統的時代因為民進黨立委反應針對駐外外交領事人員的任用條例第三條的條文規定"},{"start":6975.72,"end":6994.137,"text":"除了駐外機構、館長外資源額和技術都不能超過15%,後來有修法調降至10%,而蔡英文執政的時候卻在106年12月修法重新恢復到不得超過15%。雖然外交部有這樣任用的條例規定辦理,"},{"start":6995.879,"end":7012.131,"text":"租外機構館長外員額合計其實都並沒有超過法定上限。有關外交部圖例安插自己人的用財標準,向駐法代表的大使"},{"start":7013.154,"end":7030.78,"text":"在經歷中都沒有外交或國際事務相關,還有現任駐美國公使銜副代表,同樣也沒有外交歷練和幕僚的經歷。而且,還像現在的駐德的代表謝智偉,還有現任的駐日代表李義祥,"},{"start":7032.08,"end":7043.13,"text":"這些都沒有受過外交公務的培訓的訓練,那請問部長這些都是好人選嗎?還有外交部任用政務官是用什麼標準和原則?而且還有現在最近的荷蘭代表處主任調回禮賓師擔任師長,這個職位選缺,而且葡萄牙、西班牙還有我國駐外的單位的主管職現在也在空缺,那請問部長為什麼到現在還欲缺不補?"},{"start":7058.703,"end":7059.183,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":7081.716,"end":7102.615,"text":"就是管處的這些大使或代表是就是來自於多元的社會的一個背景特別是有一些專業我想這個對總和外交對臺灣要走出去除了傳統的外交關係以外我們也是要結合所有包括我們的經濟、文化各種國力"},{"start":7104.537,"end":7104.837,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議"},{"start":7124.24,"end":7150.114,"text":"更大的一個權限但是待會台灣有這樣一個比例的規定讓我們的外交系統可以多元化的去找但是我先還是想要請教部長一下就是像葡萄牙、西班牙這些到現在還在空缺而且現在外交同仁其實他們都是很認真堅持本分從基層開始為國家開始拚外交那是不是部長在用人方面為財適用是不是要有讓一些專業的為主的來調動這些任職的考量呢"},{"start":7153.055,"end":7167.003,"text":"對,像委員講的,這幾個地方都在作業中,會,應該最近期阿,就會...那有沒有確定人選呢?那部長可以公布一下嗎?有些在作業中了,嘿。是還沒有嗎?因為這個是已經太久了啦。有內定啦。有內定喔?嘿。是部長內定的嗎?"},{"start":7172.196,"end":7198.237,"text":"當然這個要跟總統報告也要經過行政院的程序。好,因為我是希望說不要老是都是用單純任用這些政黨就是的智庫人員啦,還是希望讓那些專業的外交人員可以補足這個規則。有啦,像委員吼,我們這些司處長很優秀,很多都外派,我只是不好意思請他們舉手,不過劉永健吶,我們公眾會我們發言人他明天就要啟程到波蘭。"},{"start":7202.995,"end":7205.537,"text":"法務部次長及警政署副署長"},{"start":7210.539,"end":7217.625,"text":"部長,您也請留步一下。截至7月底,我國和其他國已經簽訂司法互助條約的國家,包含我們今天審查的簽署國,總共有13個國簽署了司法互助的條約。但是從105年蔡英文總統上任後,不是就積極推行新南向政策嗎?但是本席我現在看了13國中,只有越南和菲律賓。請問外交部部長,還有法務部的次長,"},{"start":7238.703,"end":7245.669,"text":"那其他西南向國家呢?是我們跟他們關係不好嗎?還是有沒有什麼中共的因素呢?而且現在詐騙,我看現在詐騙非常的猖獗,國人被騙到緬甸、泰國還有柬埔寨這些地方,然後其實他們又再到那邊去詐騙其他外國人,影響了臺灣的國際的關係,尤其是這些地方,那我們是不是更需要要去跟他們簽一些司法互助呢?是不是要更努力呢?"},{"start":7267.948,"end":7295.194,"text":"對,要更努力所以部長也是贊成說那我們就是要是新南向的政策然後要去跟他們多因為隨著我們跟新南向國家的來往這麼樣的頻密那不管是人或是經貿的關係那我們事實上除了外交部之外法務部、調查局或者是我們內政部、警政署其實也是都有派外那這樣最近幾個例子都"},{"start":7296.454,"end":7300.156,"text":"刑事司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議．立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議案。五、審查行政院函請審議．立法院函請審議"},{"start":7325.806,"end":7350.674,"text":"因為這個司法互助是互惠的最主要是大家共同打擊犯罪那些跨境的犯罪越來越多好那希望我們還是要再努力一下對要努力把它如果能夠簽訂司法互助協定是更有更更更大的一個一個一個保障好謝謝謝謝林益君召委我該想說你怎麼沒有推薦我去駐外問半天都沒有問到我"},{"start":7352.079,"end":7352.619,"text":"主席,謝謝,麻煩請林佳龍部長"},{"start":7383.75,"end":7406.336,"text":"部長,勞動部的霸凌案,行政院指示說公務部門都要嚴辦各種霸凌事件。其中外交部過去到現在也有一些相關的爭議的部分。本席也看到最近有新聞的投書,也有看到說有把幾個外交部過去到現在的一些爭議事件列出來。來,我們看一下。"},{"start":7407.678,"end":7430.135,"text":"這個外交部的霸凌事件請能忘記,那其中這一位投書者還是我們之前外交部的官員。好,他裡面特別提到幾件事情,我想霸凌林榮忍,過去到現在不會因為時間流失而真相就讓他石沉大海嗎?我想部長你應該有這樣的一個認知跟這樣的一個面對的勇氣吧?對。好。"},{"start":7430.555,"end":7430.835,"text":"事實和真相到底為何?"},{"start":7445.31,"end":7472.118,"text":"禁中職守,但有搶到網軍事件。二、2023年駐巴西聖保羅辦事處王組長遺事被館長霸凌輕生,館長雖被監察院彈劾,但全案事實真相,外界未明。三、晶片護照改版事件,部長在事實真相未明下,把相關人員調職。"},{"start":7475.029,"end":7496.601,"text":"這一個部分我想請教林將部長既然我們看到勞動部有這樣的一個霸凌事件而且沒有調查還不知道甚至勞動部第一個調查還是想要粉飾太平的調查直到換了部長之後新任部長上任再重請調查才水落石出也還這個往生者一個交代那一樣這三個案件"},{"start":7497.541,"end":7509.651,"text":"內部有沒有指示是不是能夠有重啟調查至少給國人一個清楚明白真相讓瞭解是說當時的時空環境背景底下不要誤往誤走林部長你的看法勒"},{"start":7511.651,"end":7535.256,"text":"這三個案子我想有一些進入司法的程序或者是監察院調查那當然如果有什麼新的事證我們當然也會很重視來作為一個一個是新的事證嘛另外一個部分是說當初有沒有針對我們底下的同仁去做訪談去做了解以及把整個事件給勾勒出來"},{"start":7535.856,"end":7557.422,"text":"有,像我上任之後除了其實我在7月就已經針對不管霸凌或性騷還有相關的這一些就是管理的問題有全面的檢討之後有訂定了一些改善的一個辦法但是如果以您提到的第三個案子我也調出來看過"},{"start":7558.562,"end":7574.918,"text":"基本上我們都要進行調查而且對當事人也要訪談尤其是這幾天立法院關切的幾個案子我們也都有一個很詳細的調查委員會也有外聘的委員也都有啟動調查委員會跟外聘委員"},{"start":7576.058,"end":7600.317,"text":"有,有些甚至沒有,當然有些有檢舉嘛,有些沒有44委員的質詢,但我們都一樣的重視,因為有則改之嘛,一個要克則,但是如果有一些是誤會,或者是說本身當事人有,能夠來這個面對,那是情節到什麼程度,因為我們在講有時候是比較廣泛的講啦,"},{"start":7600.677,"end":7603.26,"text":"這三個案件因為都是屬於當時《劍報》也是算媒體軒然一時的事件,那這三個案件目前有沒有再去做相關了解?"},{"start":7620.868,"end":7635.058,"text":"我自己個人都有調出來詳細看過那因為他有一些已經告一個段落而且有調查結果而且有些有處處分了除非有什麼新的事證我們當然會根據情況再做判斷"},{"start":7635.959,"end":7638.022,"text":"三、審查行政院函請審議．立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議"},{"start":7652.899,"end":7666.808,"text":"所以你也歡迎如果說有任何心事證也要在跟部裡面提出,是不是?對同仁如果說有提出的話你都會主動調查?一定的好,謝謝,謝謝鴻孟凱委員,各位請回好,接下來進行巡達委員,葉元之委員那我請外交部長,謝謝來,部長請"},{"start":7687.646,"end":7705.466,"text":"部長,我要跟你反映一件事情之前有一個民眾跟我澄清那是一個跟杜拜有關的事情他們是一家四口要去杜拜旅遊然後透過電子簽證去申請結果四個人裡面有的大人有的小孩"},{"start":7706.888,"end":7724.423,"text":"結果小朋友的電子簽證回覆是錯的傳回來是一個黑人很明顯就是杜拜那邊政府搞錯遇到這樣的事情當然我們想的就是找外交部協助結果我們聯絡外交部的單位外交部的人"},{"start":7724.963,"end":7726.885,"text":"國會聯絡人,態度很差,他們沒有辦法處理,丟了一個旅行社,專門辦杜拜的旅行業務的旅行社的資料給我,叫我們轉給澄清人,說請找旅行社幫忙。"},{"start":7740.918,"end":7753.265,"text":"當下我就非常傻眼我想說即便是要找旅行社幫忙外交部應該也有一定的管道吧就請外交部進行聯絡結果外交部那個同仁說我們會轉給住處就非常敷臉我問他說請問你什麼時候會回我他說反正我會轉給住處嘛你們就先找旅行社嘛"},{"start":7760.109,"end":7786.335,"text":"我不知道外交部這樣的一個態度啦怎麼連國人遇到這樣的問題這很明顯是杜拜那邊政府搞錯我們是黃總人他傳一個黑人過來請外交部協助居然是這樣的態度那我特別去看了一下本來我們在外交部在國外的住處其中有一個有一個服務嘛就是比如說協助旅外的國人辦理像住在國政府當局依法聯絡交測事項那當然"},{"start":7789.944,"end":7795.047,"text":"外交部提供任何協助,是因為我們住杜拜單位太弱,還是我們外交部太官僚?」"},{"start":7808.7,"end":7813.144,"text":"因為你執行...你現在還知道我是說事先去瞭解我們同仁都有提供這個談餐啦喔談餐喔那你覺得這樣OK嗎你同仁這種態度OK嗎就是說我們沒辦法我們在杜拜沒什麼辦法去處理這個簽證這麼簡單的事情請你去找旅行社你覺得這樣OK嗎"},{"start":7828.997,"end":7847.746,"text":"這當然是他的說法,但是即使不管怎麼樣的說法,有這個事情我們要去釐清因為要去辦這個入境的簽證是當地國有些規定,那我們不符合,我們的國人希望說能不能方便一下不是不是,部長你都沒有聽我講他是跟成年人一起去申請的嘛,你完全沒有在聽我講話"},{"start":7855.37,"end":7870.957,"text":"四個人有大人有小孩四個人同時去申請電子簽證只有小朋友的搞錯了他是搞錯了那因為很明顯錯誤所以希望透過外交部跟當地的杜拜負責發簽證的溝通一下說這很明顯是你搞錯能不能發一個正確過來因為未滿18歲他要併成人來申請我就說那四個人裡面有大人有小孩嘛"},{"start":7880.641,"end":7908.761,"text":"但是你們的回覆的態度就是說沒辦法處理嘛,要找旅行社,如果什麼事情都找旅行社,那我們外交部真的很爽耶。委員講後面就算啦。部長,你這樣子回答我相信大家都在直播都在看啦。你們是在杜拜是有住點的嘛,有辦事處的嘛。是。那我們希望說不管怎麼樣你找辦事處,辦得成辦不成是一回事嘛,至少你有去溝通嘛。我同意啊。結果你們的態度是說你找旅行社就好了啦。"},{"start":7909.201,"end":7911.622,"text":"委員那樣講,那個是不對的。你覺得不對嗎?對,不對。那他是負責國會聯絡的。我們請求我們協助,我們一定要當作自己的事啊。其實你願意承認說,你那個同仁這樣是不對的,我非常感謝你啊。"},{"start":7924.526,"end":7947.712,"text":"因為我今天不是在找你吵架的我只要講的是說其實我們很多國人或者是駐外的我們的國人可能會遇到一些協助是需要你幫忙的但是如果說大家態度都是說我們沒辦法處理那個我們沒有外交啦我們沒辦法啦請你找旅行社請你找東請你找民間那我們國人會認為我們的外交部好像有跟沒有沒有什麼差別啊大家的感受是這樣因為他們自己的事情最大嘛"},{"start":7948.072,"end":7968.078,"text":"他們自己的感受是這樣嗎?所以是不是可以請部長我會期許我們的同仁要有同理心然後把當作自己的事情幫忙找能夠解決的方法謝謝你這樣子回答啦但是你們下面是官僚到幾點請你去好好了解一下好 謝謝葉元柱委員各位請回"},{"start":7970.626,"end":7987.201,"text":"今天已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有黃人委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆聯席會各委員並複製聯席會那委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分"},{"start":7993.506,"end":8017.933,"text":"或要求補充資料者,亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供。」但是委員當場有另約定期限者,像今天馬文君委員有約定今年底以前,請從其所定。書面再增加一位中嘉賓委員,有兩位,黃仁跟中嘉賓委員都有提書面,列入報告,列入紀錄跟報告。"},{"start":8019.226,"end":8035.915,"text":"好,我們現在開始審查討論事項第一案請議事人員宣讀名稱及條文第一案,駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議案第一條目的"},{"start":8036.533,"end":8051.227,"text":"第二條定義第三條機關第四條請求要件第五條溝通管道第六條協助之類型第七條視訊訊問第八條解送受拘禁人第九條搜索及扣押"},{"start":8051.747,"end":8063.214,"text":"第10條聯合偵查團隊、第11條資產分享、第12條特定性原則、第13條拒絕試遊、第14條執行請求、第15條保證、第16條保密、第17條諮商、第18條個人資料保護、第19條支出、第20條最終條款。」宣讀完畢各位委員對於第一案有無異議"},{"start":8079.913,"end":8092.706,"text":"沒有異議的話第一案駐德國台北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議案照案通過我們現在處理第二案請宣讀"},{"start":8093.766,"end":8121.734,"text":"第二案,中華民國（臺灣（政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。第一條,協助之範圍。第二條,中央主管機關。第三條,協助之限制。第四條,請求之形式及其內容。第五條,請求之執行。第六條,費用。第七條,用途之限制。第八條,受請求方之贈言或證據。第九條,官方記錄。第十條,人員自請求方應訊。第十一條,視訊訊問。"},{"start":8123.334,"end":8135.338,"text":"第12條,人或證據之所在或其辨識。第13條,文書之送達。第14條,搜索及扣押。第15條,返還證物。第16條,交換犯罪記錄。第17條,財產之禁止處分及沒收。第18條,第三人。第19條,資產分享。第20條,與其他協定之關係。第21條,諮商。第22條,生肖修正與終止。宣讀完畢。"},{"start":8151.448,"end":8159.389,"text":"有關第二案委員各位委員有沒有異議沒有異議我們照案通過請議事人員宣讀第三案名稱及條文"},{"start":8164.349,"end":8183.305,"text":"司法互助條約案。第一條,協助之範圍。第二條,中央主管機關。第三條,協助之限制。第四條,請求之形式及其內容。第五條,請求之執行。第六條,費用。第七條,用途之限制。第八條,受請求國之證言或證據。第九條,官方記錄。第十條,人員至請求國應訊。第十一條,視訊訊問。"},{"start":8187.549,"end":8202.692,"text":"第12條,人或證據之所在或其辨識。第13條,文書送達。第14條,搜索及扣押。第15條,返還證物。第16條,財產之限制處分及沒收。第17條,第三人。第18條,資產分享。第19條,與其他協定之關係。第20條,諮商。第21條,爭議之解決。第22條,生效修正與終止。宣讀完畢。請問各位委員是否有異議?"},{"start":8216.84,"end":8236.456,"text":"沒有異議,我們照案通過。本期宣告,駐德國臺北代表處與德國在台協會刑事司法互助協議案。中華民國（臺灣）政府與吐瓦魯國政府刑事司法互助條約案。"},{"start":8237.697,"end":8252.803,"text":"司法互助條約案。四、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國（臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。五、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。六、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。七、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國．臺灣．政府與聖露西亞政府刑事司法互助條約案。八、審查行政院函請審議:「中華民國"},{"start":8268.234,"end":8269.476,"text":"在委之前本席再宣告一次"},{"start":8281.684,"end":8292.608,"text":"有關國防部主管非營業基金預算提案單,收件截止日期是12月27日星期五中午12點前,"},{"start":8300.33,"end":8326.295,"text":"主管信託基金預算提案單收件截止日期也是在12月27日星期五中午12點以前預期數不收案。」我們這兩國防部跟僑委會的基金我們會定在同一天進行審議那我們在會議通知其實都有書面告知各位委員那宣告請我們黨團的助理跟各位委員助理再一次確認時間12月27星期五中午12點以前好"},{"start":8330.516,"end":8333.44,"text":"大家辛苦,本次聯席會議到此結束,我們散會,謝謝。"}]}},{"id":"16423","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16423","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dc7e719fa4ce89b4f4d503f9c4523e5716d1319bf84c91682995455c6eb3e890a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：繼續處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議，國防部主管預算凍結案等4案。）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:29:58+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T09:27:00+08:00","duration":3422,"影片長度":"00:57:02","委員發言時間":"08:29:58 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中華民國113年12月16日星期一上午9時1分至12時56分12月18日星期三上午9時2分至12時29分下午1時至7時58分12月19日星期四上午9時1分至12時30分下午1時30分至4時11分地點 紅樓山林議會議室出席委員王定宇等11人列席委員邱益穎等12人"},{"start":1872.685,"end":1895.037,"text":"列席人員﹐12月16日﹐侨務委員會委員長許家青及所屬人員﹐行政院主計總署專門委員邱碧珠﹐12月18日﹐國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員﹐行政院主計總署專門委員邱碧珠﹐12月19日﹐國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員﹐行政院主計總署專門委員邱碧珠﹐主席王昭吉委員定宇﹐12月16日﹐星期一﹐報告事項"},{"start":1896.218,"end":1920.884,"text":"宣讀上次會議議事錄．決定確定．討論事項一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於僑務委員會．主管收支公開基金部分二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位．預算關於僑務委員會．主管信託基金一、裝守公益基金二、受理捐贈僑生獎助學金及堅困地區僑民學校施支輔助基金"},{"start":1921.984,"end":1947.356,"text":"僑務委員會委員長許家青報告委員林儲英等9人質詢．由僑務委員會委員長許家青等即席答覆決議一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請僑務委員會與二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員王逸川所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報"},{"start":1948.236,"end":1958.943,"text":"4.第二案令則其繼續審查5公開部分審查結果稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第210項僑務委員會無劣數第3款會費收入第172項僑務委員會24000元照列第4款財產收入第220項僑務委員會8583000元照列"},{"start":1968.376,"end":1988.023,"text":"第7款其他收入第219項僑務委員會62萬5千元照列稅出部分第21款僑務委員會主管不含機密部分第一項僑務委員會原列19億7千345萬5千元簡列一第6目僑生回國升學及僑親培訓研習向下擴大培育及留用僑生中業務費500萬元二第7目僑務新聞資訊及傳媒服務向下辦理僑務新聞資訊及傳媒服務中業務費至一般數費100萬元"},{"start":1997.947,"end":2005.93,"text":"以上共計檢列6百萬元科目均致行調整區域均造列改列為19億6745萬5千元本項通過決議33項6.機密部分審查結果命略其114年度中央政府總預算案關於求務委員會主管說之公開及機密部分審查完均審查結果送財政委員會會長後提報院會不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由王昭吉委員定於處洗說明"},{"start":2025.018,"end":2040.28,"text":"．有關委員提案內容文字及金額在不影響提案原意下授權一事人員修正處理。12月18日,星期三,討論事項繼續懲查114年度中央政府總預算案．關於國防部主管授資公開及機密部分,不含國家安全局部分．"},{"start":2041.261,"end":2056.982,"text":"決議本案113年12月19日繼續審查12月19日新啟示討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管授資公開及機密部分不含國家安全局部分決議依公開部分審查結果"},{"start":2057.903,"end":2077.822,"text":"稅務部分不含國家安全局部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第77項國防部五萬元照列第三款歸非收入第62項國防部一萬五千元照列第四款財產收入第88項國防部一百五十四萬五千元照列第七款其他收入第87項國防部六十六萬六千元照列"},{"start":2078.963,"end":2095.39,"text":"稅出部分不含國家安全局部分第9款國防部主管不含機密部分第一項國防部原列17億321萬4千元簡列第一幕一般行政項下基本行政工作維持中設備及投資資資訊軟硬體設備費100萬元科目執行調整其餘軍造列改列為17億221萬4千元本項通過決議33項"},{"start":2104.532,"end":2113.919,"text":"稅入部分不含國家安全局部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第78項國防部所屬6億129萬元照列第三款規費收入第63項國防部所屬77萬8千元照列第4款財產收入第89項國防部所屬原列70億8762萬元增列第一幕財產珍惜第二節租金收入100萬元其餘均照列改列為70億8862萬元"},{"start":2133.852,"end":2152.34,"text":"第5款營業營餘及事業收入第三項國防部所屬15億元照列第7款其他收入第88項國防部所屬20億3393萬6千元照列稅出部分不含國家安全局部分第9款國防部主管不含機密部分第二項國防部所屬"},{"start":2153.598,"end":2164.782,"text":"不含第10目國防支出機密計劃及第12目科學支出機密計劃原列4475億5663萬8千元除第7目非營業特種基金15億4392萬4千元暫照列是所屬非營業特種基金審議確定在行調整外檢列依第一目軍事行政2200萬元依政治作戰局200萬元依軍醫局"},{"start":2180.2,"end":2201.326,"text":"軍事醫療作業中業務費兩千萬元第三目教育訓練業務一千五百萬元依海軍司令部教育行政業務費制物品一百萬元二空軍司令部教育行政中業務費制一般事務費一百萬元訓練綜合作業中業務費制軍事裝備及設施兩百萬元三全民防衛動員署動員整備九百萬元含設備及投資中軟硬體設備費兩百萬元雜項設備費兩百萬元及業務費制物品五百萬元"},{"start":2210.885,"end":2220.214,"text":"國防大學教育行政中業務費至一般書費100萬元﹐吳參謀本部動員整備100萬元﹐第4幕後請及通知業務4150萬元﹐一陸軍司令部2900萬元﹐一通訊電子與資訊管理向下業務費200萬元﹐二軍事單位裝備零附件構置及保修中業務費至軍事裝備設施養護費有關辦理CM11N60"},{"start":2237.51,"end":2240.873,"text":"A3組合型戰車訓練模擬器等11項維修、維治案。114年度檢列1000萬元。3軍事單位裝備零附件購置及保修中業務費之軍事裝備設施養物費有關辦理"},{"start":2255.994,"end":2268.801,"text":"A.H-64-1桌邊設備及保修訓練器及UH-60M保修訓練器為保案全案檢列6000萬元114年度檢列1200萬元4.獲請補給資源向下業務費之軍事裝備設施養護費500萬元2.空軍司令部軍事單位裝備零附件購物至及保修向下業務費軍事裝備及設施辦理戰鬥各裝防護頭盔戰鬥背心及抗彈板"},{"start":2285.309,"end":2306.179,"text":"裝備零附件採購所需軍事裝備及設施一千萬元,三全民防衛動員署,後勤補給資源向下誘廢製物品,辦理通用服裝等籌補所需物品兩百萬元,四軍事情報局後勤補給資源五十萬元,五一般裝備陸軍司令部,攻擊無人機飛彈系統四十五億七千九百六十萬元,"},{"start":2307.459,"end":2323.697,"text":"第8目一般建築及設備1317萬元一第二屆營建工程1000萬元二海軍司令部第二屆營建工程向下訓練設施工程中設備及投資之防務建築及設備費辦理林園靶場展修工程所需防務建築及設備費117萬元三軍醫局"},{"start":2328.001,"end":2337.769,"text":"軍醫局第4屆其他設備向下醫療設備中第4作戰區高階持證及證紙斷層掃描系統整備200萬元以上工具檢列46億7127萬元科目軍智型調整區域軍造列改列為4428億8536萬8千元本項通過決議270項"},{"start":2354.546,"end":2357.567,"text":"2.機密部分審查結果命略3."},{"start":2357.567,"end":2372.271,"text":"114年度中央政府總預算案關於國防部主管說之公開及機密部分審查完略。審查結果送財政委員會會審後提報院會。需交由黨團協商院會討論時,有望召集委員定於出席說明。4."},{"start":2372.271,"end":2378.613,"text":"有關委員提案內容文字及金額再不影響提案原意下授權議事人員修正處理。宣讀完畢"},{"start":2381.728,"end":2409.066,"text":"請問在場委員對於上一次會議議事錄有無遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有的話我們議事錄確定那請議事人員宣讀今天的報告事項報告事項2繼續處理院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議．國防部主管預算提出書面報告後使得凍結等4案一陸軍司令部第8幕第二節上下裝訓部坑子口訓練場整建工程案預算凍結300萬元案"},{"start":2410.854,"end":2418.799,"text":"二陸軍司令部第8幕第二節向下．莊訓部長長安營區訓練場整建工程案預算凍結500萬元案三海軍司令部第5幕向下．魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統預算凍結500萬元案四軍備局第11幕向下．軍品研發中也佔全身行動力外骨骼系統開發預算凍結100萬元案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2436.518,"end":2452.523,"text":"跟各位同仁報告我們今天處理的報告事項是當時我們決議書面報告後使得凍結那經同意的當然我們可以表決但是本席決定我們經同意的還是溝通完略我們再排上來所以總共11個凍結案"},{"start":2454.264,"end":2475.701,"text":"我們照當時委員會決議書面報告後使得凍資那他們書面報告已經進來了所以我們就是照程序把它列案那希望各位同仁我們可以照程序來處理以上是報告事項那接下來我們要進行介紹在場委員跟與會官員之前今天因為有兩個段落的會議"},{"start":2481.643,"end":2508.211,"text":"馬委員請請主席我想請教一下所以剛剛那個報告事項現在目前的那個解凍案是怎麼樣等一下會處理那個是書面報告後就可以動之可是我們如果還有意見我是建議這樣子馬委員因為我們當時開會沒有因為明年有的要經同意的我知道如果這樣會大家比較沒有這樣的共識因為我們是希望因為我們到現在還沒有看到他的解決方案而且每一個"},{"start":2509.091,"end":2523.7,"text":"上述的這4案全部都是延宕的所以如果用這樣的處理因為我們在明年也有凍結那它也沒有影響進度事實上現在都還在做所以我們希望不要用這樣的處理模式好不好我們希望因為這樣我印象是總共11個案"},{"start":2527.242,"end":2538.525,"text":"其中雷同的案子有7個案當時是需經同意時的動作因為有時候我們沒有特別再提經同意主要是因為如果他可以達到這樣的標準那沒有問題可是現在我們剛剛提到的這4個解凍案全部都是延宕的"},{"start":2545.847,"end":2568.207,"text":"我待會會問有沒有意義好不好雖然不用金同意我會處理問大家有沒有意義那我覺得這也討論很多了啦那如果有意義那我們再來做處理我都希望這個案子都不大我希望這照程序大家如果回憶我們上個禮拜在審國防預算的時候其實需要金同意的交委員表達我從來沒有否決過通會發放金同意"},{"start":2568.687,"end":2568.787,"text":"今天有兩節"},{"start":2592.389,"end":2610.618,"text":"第一段就是剛才處理的那個書面報告的解凍案那待會我們會來進行處理那今天顧立雄部長如果大家看媒體有報導啦今天總統府有兵推啦那禮拜四也會有軍談所以因為我們處理這個案子也不是重大案子所以"},{"start":2611.138,"end":2637.723,"text":"顧立雄部長在昨天請假本席按照召委職權我給予准假這是第一段的部分我們第二段會議因為是跟司法法制聯席審查進行條約的一個案子裡面包含了跟德國的刑事司法互助跟土瓦魯的刑事司法互助跟聖露西亞的刑事司法互助"},{"start":2638.063,"end":2638.303,"text":"陳永康委員"},{"start":2655.264,"end":2664.075,"text":"許曉鑫委員、馬文君委員、羅美玲委員、陳冠廷委員、林楚瑛委員、王逸川委員、沈伯陽委員"},{"start":2675.888,"end":2688.821,"text":"我們來介紹一下我們第一階段與會的官員這一位我在委員會介紹官員從來沒有要求鼓掌過別的委員會有我們都沒有但是因為許願樸我們兩個認識的時候你還是少叫嘛"},{"start":2690.062,"end":2702.567,"text":"選普是我們原住民同胞第一個擔任少將中將到上將他在2月1號要藉臨退伍了那今天他代表部長所以今天"},{"start":2703.7,"end":2732.541,"text":"部長請假算是特別指定他來這邊來代表列席我相信馬委員應該有感受我們兩個跟他認識一樣久了所以我們待會介紹到請各位同仁我們用掌聲謝謝他為國家付出他的心力一輩子在軍旅生涯當中不管在陸軍總部或者在軍備副部長的任內對國家的貢獻卓著那我們有幸雖然不一定黨派相同能夠在這個會議室裡面一起為國家國防努力那"},{"start":2733.462,"end":2757.614,"text":"長官那句話能夠跟你在這邊成為某種同事深表榮幸我們今天代表列席的官員是徐元甫副部長恭喜榮退長務次長楊吉榮參事石文榮軍備局局長林文祥主計局局長謝其賢陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義"},{"start":2764.394,"end":2781.619,"text":"海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮中科院計劃主持人任國光行政院主計總處專門委員黃子涵好我們現在先處理第一個部分報告事項這個"},{"start":2787.907,"end":2808.516,"text":"院會交付113年度中央政府總預算決議．國防部主管預算凍結案當中提出書面報告後就可以動之,使得動之的4案那現在書面報告都已經送交本會請問各位委員對於預算解凍有無異議來,馬委員請"},{"start":2812.37,"end":2835.018,"text":"這部分有意義因為這4個案子明年幾乎持續因為除了外國格的這個部分其他的都還是明年都有背新的凍結主要是因為現在沒有辦法提出說他的改善方向因為所有案子都延長這個是防禦系統那個嗎對"},{"start":2836.498,"end":2839.039,"text":"對,就是康字口的訓練場還有長安營區的訓練場這些部分因為在我們的戰車來了以後它到現在還沒有做好可是我們沒有看到它積極的作為那個不是拿來說你做了什麼做了什麼"},{"start":2855.603,"end":2860.047,"text":"他把大部分的經費都用在那現在也用了可是我們希望他應該要有一個整體的規劃到現在我們沒有看到而且他持續工程是延宕落後當中所以他對我們很多的比如說戰力的訓練啊因為你像現在你就必須放在別的地方或者在別的地方先做這些的訓練"},{"start":2877.82,"end":2897.895,"text":"所以這個部分如果他因為提出書面報告因為他的書面報告並沒有完整的去說明他應該要怎麼改善所以我們到明年還會凍結那你如果現在把這些解凍而且沒有影響他的進度啊他都可以持續做可是他在沒有提供比較完善的一個書面報告之前我認為這樣解凍那我們所有的凍結的動作其實都沒有意義"},{"start":2903.38,"end":2905.564,"text":"這個部分我們希望大家可以針對有效的預算審查最後一個就是全身型動力外骨骼的部分"},{"start":2914.895,"end":2935.015,"text":"我們在昨天其實有看到媒體有出現南韓他大概也出現像因為這全世界都在推嘛包括福特公司其實他現在在他的那個整個廠房裡面其實大概都是用這些在運作了我們提供這樣的資源"},{"start":2936.577,"end":2936.857,"text":"中央政府總預算決議．國防部主管預算"},{"start":2952.654,"end":2978.248,"text":"那你如果通通沒有讓我們看到之前的我們為什麼一定要一直一直不斷的給預算而且它有一些相關的關鍵技術其實它是階梯式的螺旋式的它必須要疊加上去而不是你新的預算用一個新的所以就這4個案子為什麼我有意見的原因在這裡我們也不希望說大家提出來然後就給它過那我們明年可能就會那些要求會更嚴謹謝謝"},{"start":2980.509,"end":3006.225,"text":"好謝謝馬委員我們要求一項都很嚴謹現在有幾個思維我讓我們委員會同仁大家一起思考看看然後待會我們來進行處理第一個這個4個案子是順便報告後就可以動之了不用經同意這第一個第二個同樣的項目明年還是有凍結也就是說我們對這4個案子還是可以在明年度進行"},{"start":3007.525,"end":3030.617,"text":"監督跟管理而且我印象明年的話我們是經同意才能凍資這個設定的條件更嚴格那第三個我們案子也不能一直在那邊一直凍結在那裡那至於說不管是坑子口長安或者動力骨骼這個預算的凍結目的是為了監督那我也不會去考慮到這個主管機關這個凍結對他們業務有沒有影響因為如果凍結需經同意"},{"start":3036.4,"end":3058.143,"text":"那我們不同意你還是不能弄我不管有沒有影響那這個凍結因為這個案子真的當時設定的條件是書面報告後使得凍結所以我請馬委員思考一下各位思考一下我們這邊不要再細部討論因為這討論過了啦這是上次委員會討論過了那相關的延續型的案子我們在上個禮拜也都討論過了也就是第一個他是書面報告後就可以凍結的案子"},{"start":3059.204,"end":3073.394,"text":"那第二個我們同樣的案子在明年度我們不止還有凍結數而且我印象都是經同意使得凍之也就馬尾我們監督的力道其實是更強的沒有沒有減弱然後第三個就是說"},{"start":3074.758,"end":3103.211,"text":"院裡面已經把書面報告所凍結案發到委員會我覺得我們還是要依照程序來做處理那這個跟各位委員是不是溝通一下我真的不想用表決了我非常不想在外交國防委員會用表決馬委員這幾個案子金額不大我們就讓他書面報告因為真的他就是書面報告就可以凍結了反對啦你還是要表決好吧好這4案我們要一個一個表決嗎"},{"start":3106.291,"end":3121.356,"text":"應該是一包還是一個一個一個好了啦因為如果像這樣子凍結所以我們如果編了14年的東西你不可能第一年第二年第三年都凍結這就是為什麼要監督的原因如果是這樣的話"},{"start":3125.679,"end":3146.009,"text":"因為這個當時委員會設定就是書面報告就可以凍結了那我們是不是按照原來上次委員會設定的就是書面報告後時的凍結等4案我們從第一案開始陸軍司令部第8幕第2節向下裝訓部坑子口這就M1A2的那個訓場這個如果新同仁的話這是M1A2的訓場"},{"start":3151.171,"end":3172.977,"text":"裝訓部坑子口訓練場整建工程案預算凍結300萬元案我們現在表決是各位同仁是否贊成是否贊成按照原來設定條件書面報告後就可以凍資這樣子比較不會違反我們原來的決議好不好第一案贊成的請舉手"},{"start":3177.428,"end":3196.202,"text":"5票反對的請舉手5票對3票我們就照上一次設定的決議書面報告後就可以動之第二案陸軍司令部第8幕第二節向下裝訓部長安營區訓練場整建工程案這個都跟M1A2有關係的案子預算凍結500萬元案"},{"start":3203.807,"end":3212.458,"text":"是否贊成按照原設定條件書面報告後就可以動之就使得動之贊成的請舉手反對的請舉手"},{"start":3219.467,"end":3237.777,"text":"5票對3票贊成通過第3案海軍司令部第5幕向下魚叉飛彈海岸防衛系統預算凍結500萬元案贊成案原設定條件書面報告後就可動之贊成的請舉手反對的請舉手"},{"start":3246.084,"end":3272.554,"text":"好謝謝這個贊成者多數就照原設定條件書面報告後使得動之第4案軍備局第11幕向下軍品研發中野戰全身型動力外骨骼系統開發預算凍結100萬元案是否支持按照原委員會設定條件書面報告後使得動之贊成的請舉手"},{"start":3276.716,"end":3278.177,"text":"以上4案同意凍結提報院會"},{"start":3293.919,"end":3297.922,"text":"本會與司法法治委員會聯席審查三項條約案,其中跟德國的司法行事互助相當重要,希望本會委員都能出席參與。另外,"},{"start":3321.041,"end":3341.989,"text":"跟本會同仁報告,待會如果有司法法制的同仁過來也一併會再跟他們說一次那個林佳龍部長下午一點半以後也是一樣因為總統府有公務這個不可列席那這個公務還是對外的本院今天的在一點半以後一點半以後他請假"},{"start":3343.45,"end":3347.793,"text":"本會同仁因為兩個委員會我們時間4加2非本委員會同仁4分鐘啦齁這個我先跟各位宣告好我們現在是要先散會還是應該散會喔我們是兩段會喔好我們現在第一階段會議散會待會10點半進席聯審謝謝"}]}},{"id":"16421","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16421","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dc7e719fa4ce89b4f8bd03a951da4504b22ed645e3f9bcfe6de537e14460d43d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案。\n二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院校務基金、國立臺灣大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部所屬機構作業基金、國立高級中等學校校務基金、學產基金、運動發展基金、私立高級中等以上學校退場基金。\n三、繼續審查114年度行政法人國家運動訓練中心預算案。\n四、繼續審查114年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案。\n(12月25日及26日二天一次會)）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:30:14+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T17:49:35+08:00","duration":33561,"影片長度":"09:19:21","委員發言時間":"08:30:14 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貝委員,你的提案跟我提案就是不一樣的東西,然後就是你...我們現在是第7幕一起處理並動嗎?沒有錯,第7幕一起處理,你的是國立大學校務跟醫院基金,我的是私立高中以上學校退場基金但是我現在剛剛問的是第7幕要並動多少,好嗎?"},{"start":2154.537,"end":2179.176,"text":"我們並沒有要單項處理我這個部分我因為昨天我也特別強調就說私立高等私立高級中等以上學校退場基金就像這個是司長司長這個說明了那現在到底是我們專輔學校不管是私立高中的專輔學校有幾間私立高職的專輔學校有幾間目前大專的是已經沒有專輔了"},{"start":2184.031,"end":2189.018,"text":"期間那高職勒?高中職一起期間"},{"start":2194.554,"end":2205.446,"text":"孟海委員那個您對他的回覆哪裡不滿的話我們就針對這個部分因為我們現在已經在討論數字了沒有錯嘛因為這裡不是質詢趙偉我沒有在質詢我現在就是一直在強調是說為什麼我跟葛禄君委員的234案都是認為是說現在對於私立高中職的專輔學校"},{"start":2216.298,"end":2240.071,"text":"公、公開的資訊量都相對不足,所以說要強化專輔學校的校務資訊的揭露。部長剛表達他希望動一千萬啦,好不好?那個郭君瑋要發言。好,那這樣子我要求是在這一個私立高等中、高級中等學校以上退場機制這邊3億5千萬的這個科目裡面動結一千萬。我們不接受併動。"},{"start":2241.918,"end":2267.919,"text":"這個我們從昨天到現在都一直要不接受病棟那這樣子其他委員沒有這樣子的他們不就吃虧了沒有 不會喔怎麼會每一個委員自己提出自己的主張跟需求有些委員可以接受病棟有些委員不接受病棟那還有我昨天就已經講了就是說我們在監督的部分就是針對哪一個案有問題的案我就監督沒有問題的案我也不會刻意刁難"},{"start":2269.66,"end":2290.99,"text":"你今天第7幕非營業特種基金我對於國立大學校務基金這邊我沒有認為說有什麼樣的意義啊那如果說我並動起來那明年要解凍的時候你的高等的退場基金的解釋讓我覺得不夠清楚那我沒有辦法解凍反而我卡到了國立大學校務基"},{"start":2291.77,"end":2313.56,"text":"基金那這樣不是很奇怪嗎所以我才會focus在這一個部分請私立高等高級中等以上學校退場基金這邊如果說剛剛部長講是說可以凍結一千萬還是可以來運行因為我剛剛我也同意啊司長講是說維持一定的水位啊所以今天三億四千萬進去應該水位還是維持得了吧"},{"start":2313.7,"end":2330.575,"text":"我建議好了我們這邊分兩節處理好不好那前面第一節就照列那現在我們處理第二節就是洪孟凱委員要動一千萬就是洪孟凱、林一景、葛如君一起這樣好不好那個前面的委員說OK部長覺得可以嗎"},{"start":2332.12,"end":2357.893,"text":"謝謝委員因為確實我們當然不希望學校退場希望能夠永續發展但是如果真的要面臨退場我們只要對老師的權益跟學生的權益的一些安置包括交通的補助等等這都是實際發生以後才會用到的錢所以我想謝謝委員的指正這也是我們共同的方式那部長可以接受那我們第7幕就"},{"start":2359.233,"end":2365.895,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":2384.48,"end":2390.162,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":2405.027,"end":2419.617,"text":"跟委員報告這筆錢都是經常門沒有資本門這可能是預算科目的名稱我們錢都是給學生補助給學校的薪資的墊付對所以因為這可能是預算科目的問題對沒有設備購置沒有都沒有"},{"start":2422.665,"end":2438.715,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管48所國立大學教育部主管49所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立大學教育部主管50所國立"},{"start":2441.383,"end":2454.275,"text":"二三五萬美領案改組決議沒有委員發言我們第10幕就照列第11幕只有張雅玲一案她已經改組決議第11幕也就照列在我們處理組決議組決議請那個組決議239到247配合辦理"},{"start":2463.854,"end":2471.124,"text":"中央通過248到251已經建議修正文字後通過252案到"},{"start":2475.475,"end":2501.681,"text":"253案教育部招案通過配合辦理254案、255案建議修正文字後通過256案到268案招案通過配合辦理269案到270案建議修正文字後通過271案到275案招案通過配合辦理276案建議修正文字後通過277案到"},{"start":2506.905,"end":2515.375,"text":"281案照案通過282案建議修正文字後通過283案到287案照案通過288案、289案修正文字後通過291、290、291照案通過"},{"start":2523.945,"end":2548.273,"text":"二九二案修正文字後通過二九三到二九七照案通過二九八修正文字後通過二九九照案通過三百到三零一修正文字後通過三百零二到三百零三照案通過三零四案修正文字後通過三零五案三零六案"},{"start":2550.514,"end":2568.481,"text":"三零七案修正文字後通過三零八案照案通過我們現在進入國教署剛剛建議文字的這些部分我們提案委員都已經有同意了嗎"},{"start":2569.806,"end":2597.703,"text":"如果在現場沒有人反對的話就是同意他們各自都有溝通的簽名吧因為我看到的是像292案林倩琪委員的案件是後面還有多一個委員以簽名嗎還有298案范雲委員的案子是委員以簽名嗎配合辦理沒有問題但是建議修正文字的部分不同意的人就自己提出來好不好是不是也請行政部門說明一下是不是有跟個別委員他建議修正文字的部分是不是都已經有取得共識這部分"},{"start":2598.283,"end":2599.264,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":2621.74,"end":2633.343,"text":"請大家如果自己離席的話自己的權益我們就不要等到你回來又要別人重講一遍喔我們討論到數字就數字了好現在進入國教署趙偉趙偉你在審文化部的時候你幫那麼多的委員發言喔"},{"start":2639.645,"end":2644.127,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":2666.052,"end":2673.515,"text":"請行政部門說明一下說是不是都有個別溝通因為剛剛如同我們有委員講是說建議修正文字因為上面有你看嘛"},{"start":2686.12,"end":2709.64,"text":"都有溝通我知道但是上面有委員已簽名跟委員未簽名的兩個情況所以我現在只是請行政部門說明一下是說委員已簽名那當然委員已經同意了那委員未簽名的部分他有沒有什麼樣自在難行之處有那麼難懂嗎行政部門就有兩個版本嘛是哪一位委員的主角也沒有溝通他自己提出來好不好"},{"start":2713.701,"end":2726.207,"text":"三零一跟三零四建議修正文字按你們修正的建議版本應該都跟你們溝通過了吧是你的是不是三零一三百是你了"},{"start":2727.261,"end":2753.704,"text":"三百次召委你我的都溝通過啦那301羅廷偉的說明一下好嗎那簡單說明一下那謝謝羅委員羅委員那經過我們說明羅委員辦公室也知道這個改善要一年一年持續的努力不一定在特定八年啦所以我們會持續來努力謝謝委員謝謝好那他跟你辦公室說明過了你要不要跟你辦公室溝通一下我是覺得應該要壓個日期"},{"start":2760.175,"end":2782.73,"text":"委員這個關心我們會逐期就像以前有一期一期三年計劃四年計劃這樣所以是不是有允許因為他會一直有滿50年的他也會一直有地震發生所以他這個要一直做可能在某個特定年而已會不夠所以我們是用比較開放的角度來跟地方政府一起努力好嗎"},{"start":2787.01,"end":2789.933,"text":"三零一本來就是主決議修正文字後通過進入國教署第一幕"},{"start":2806.579,"end":2813.243,"text":"第三零九案林倩琦委員的稅入部分林倩琦委員有沒有要發言"},{"start":2815.723,"end":2839.817,"text":"這案是學務委員請我幫他講的他有注意到因為我們在學齡前的這個評量的權利均收的好像有比較高一點然後他說有許多這個身心障礙的學生其實在這個需求跟實際用途上是不是可以請教育部這邊做一個調整主要是這樣子"},{"start":2843.229,"end":2864.697,"text":"那這個部分教育部檢列有沒有問題請表達一下報告委員前兩天也去跟學員做過報告他知道這個學生不用繳費他只是學校收集基金這個都是教育部補助所以他後來是測案謝謝補助完畢好那309案以測案就照列那進來我們處理稅出的部分第一幕"},{"start":2866.36,"end":2891.67,"text":"第一幕有三位委員提案吳佩儀、神秀寶、萬美玲有沒有要發言?好,那個萬美玲委員先發言好,謝謝,我的是312案其實國教所來溝通,但是我覺得好像不夠清楚那我希望今天能夠得到一個更明確的答案那因為這一案的預算其實非常的重要我們看到在113年的時候我們是編1983萬,對不對"},{"start":2895.231,"end":2915.605,"text":"但是現在我們的預算案要改成要增加為6872萬這個應該可以用暴增來形容暴增4888萬那成長的是246%那其中呢本席看到增加最多像個人電腦伺服器網路的相關這些資訊東西那是從1439萬增加到2828萬它是翻倍那我要必須要講就是我們的設備"},{"start":2924.091,"end":2928.954,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":2939.261,"end":2964.086,"text":"二百六十四萬增加到三千七百六十四萬那增加了三千五百萬這個數字真的太大那成長了百分之三百七十七那我是認為應該再說得更清楚一點你到底修繕什麼是什麼樣的工程需要到這麼多那這個部分因為現在不清楚所以呢我是希望能夠凍結五百萬那等一下看這個署長說明之後我們再來看怎麼處理謝謝"},{"start":2965.707,"end":2966.49,"text":"吳佩儀、秀寶文要發言"},{"start":2971.212,"end":2978.034,"text":"謝謝主席我這個案子311案主要是關心我們的人員的這個聘任的問題在112學年的時候全國高中以下學校代理教師有3854人到113學年各縣市僅招考近5000名所以這個代理教師的人數還有25000多人那各縣市都傳出代理教師難以補齊的這個狀況"},{"start":2999.38,"end":3001.222,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":3016.181,"end":3033.215,"text":"但是在教育現場就是會有代理教師難以補齊的這個狀況那請教育部希望跟可以跟各地方的教育局妥善的處理不要造成學校家長跟學生會有這種焦慮跟恐慌我這個案子可以改成主決議但是我會希望說教育部這邊可以更積極以上"},{"start":3038,"end":3052.158,"text":"我的提案310案其實就是斑斑有先入的政策檢討討論昨天已經討論非常多那這個政策確實是倉促上路那也希望國教署教育部要"},{"start":3052.719,"end":3055.863,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":3072.622,"end":3075.665,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":3096.742,"end":3120.672,"text":"學校145校我們主管學校的部分我們一起幫忙第二個是有關一次性的處理廁所跟防曬中部其實中部以南到大概3月以後都很熱那我常常去辦公室大概在我們的3樓以上非常的不方便不舒服那廁所的部分那就已經有20年沒有修了所以是廁所大概有1800萬"},{"start":3121.952,"end":3122.372,"text":"委員會提供的具體項目"},{"start":3139.363,"end":3151.292,"text":"第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11�"},{"start":3162.898,"end":3178.253,"text":"那我們是來處理一下第一幕喔剛剛是萬美玲委員希望動500萬嘛那其他委員那教育部要不要表達一下看其他委員有沒有數字第一幕"},{"start":3184.571,"end":3185.212,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":3201.566,"end":3202.347,"text":"三一三到三六零學前教育部分"},{"start":3225.384,"end":3239.48,"text":"328、340、352"},{"start":3242.98,"end":3268.732,"text":"到360嗎?我先講這三個案子328就是針對學習歷程檔案但是昨天其實有做了一些說明但是我想要再強調因為弱勢的孩子的繳交率其實真的還是比較低尤其針對一些偏鄉學校的說明是不是可以請國教署、規劃局長到學校實地的說明了解他們的困境如果是可以的話我就不堅持我可以跟大家並動"},{"start":3270.393,"end":3298.772,"text":"那再來是340案340案是針對於國小、國中小學的教育的實驗教育的費用那就是說在這一大筆的預算裡面到底有多少預算是用於實驗教育的學生那請國教署補充說明那另外就是說目前教育學生的人數其實是實際在上升那也顯示說實驗教育是多數學生和家長的選擇那雖然說現在有針對於低中收入"},{"start":3302.576,"end":3318.314,"text":"一般生並沒有享有公立學校相等的學費補貼或協助方案。是不是可以請國教署說明,針對於全部實驗教育學生,我們可不可以規劃相關的協助方案?第三百五十二案"},{"start":3320.598,"end":3345.123,"text":"三百五十二案是針對於學前教育就是說因為其實現在我們在這些人口密集的地方都是希望可以來增加公共化幼兒園的招生名額那因為我的服務我現在負責的責任區是在桃園、龜山、蘆竹和大園那這一年其實我也收了一些民眾來陳情希望可以增加公共化幼兒園的名額因為當地有非常多而且大量的外來年輕人口"},{"start":3346.584,"end":3363.654,"text":"所以大家對幼兒園的需求很大所以我希望國教署針對這些都會區特別是桃園選區的話是不是可以請桃園市政府再規劃盤點有沒有可能再增加一些招生名額這部分希望國教署可以多支持再來是陳秀寶委員"},{"start":3368.852,"end":3397.025,"text":"謝謝主席在這段裡面我有兩個案子330案跟346案330案的部分呢也是大家都非常關心的關於學生歷程答案未提交比率增加的這個問題尤其是經濟弱勢的學生不管是在學習這個成果跟多元表現未提交的比率都昨年的攀升那教育部這邊是要來說明說未提交到學習歷程中央資料庫不代表沒有上傳至學習歷程的這個學校"},{"start":3398.705,"end":3422.632,"text":"提交到中央資料庫與否關係的學生選擇用何種管道入學本期在這邊是要提醒教育部如果說提交到中央資料庫的學生日漸減少就表示學生沒有選擇以學生歷程答案作為備審資料的人數增加所以教育部這邊你們應該要去了解為什麼學習歷程答案不是學生願意使用的方式"},{"start":3423.112,"end":3438.641,"text":"如果學生都選擇用PDF檔作為備審資料那學生立成答案的設置有沒有必要所以這邊呢我希望說教部可以更積極的去分析這個原因而且也應該更積極的提供協助給這些學生那這個案子我是可以改正處決議但是我希望說"},{"start":3439.401,"end":3439.821,"text":"教育部教育部主管"},{"start":3460.215,"end":3469.02,"text":"統計顯示校園自殺通報案件在國小、國中都是增加的從106年的114件、470件到110年的時候已經增加到1183件以及4204件可見國中、國小的學生也有身心調適下這個需求當然教育部有來說明就是說我們會看這個高中的這個年紀"},{"start":3485.888,"end":3496.212,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":3515.698,"end":3543.714,"text":"好那謝謝齁我們再請郭育晴委員發言好這一幕當中我的是337、350以及357那337的部分我想這個108課綱這個強調自主學習那跨領域的這個能力跟批判性的一個思維但是其實在資源跟這個支持不足其實老師他們在指導學生的時候其實也碰到了一些困難"},{"start":3544.614,"end":3562.987,"text":"那我想這個部分是不是應該教育部要提出一些所謂對應的這個措施幫助這個學校的老師他們在課程上的設計跟個別輔導還是能夠怎麼樣提高誘因引進外部的師資那這個部分其實我沒有特別堅持"},{"start":3563.847,"end":3574.09,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育"},{"start":3592.074,"end":3619.508,"text":"那是不是應該要提出一些偏鄉學習落差的一個原因跟改善的一個措施那另外就是在尤其是在這個國英術尤其是在英文跟數學的部分這個偏鄉代加強的比例其實他們還是高達47%那這個部分我想怎麼樣能夠來推動這個創新的發展縮減這個成鄉的學校他們在會考的成績上的一個差距我想這個也是我們教育部應該責無旁貸的部分"},{"start":3620.128,"end":3622.632,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會主管"},{"start":3629.361,"end":3657.705,"text":"這個幼兒園的性侵案其實一直在一直在尤其是數量通報的數量其實一直增加那其實還有沒有通報的黑數其實真的就不得而知了那我想這個家長信任感下降那我建議這個國教署推動這個監視器的建置跟雲端資料庫的一個管理才能夠保障這個就學的幼兒他們學習的一個安全的環境那我想這個其實是真的需要"},{"start":3658.885,"end":3669.75,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":3686.098,"end":3687.139,"text":"凍結金額等下可以並案處理。"},{"start":3698.729,"end":3723.445,"text":"我這邊大概就是359跟360大概就在談從過去就一直以來事實上是監視器跟我們的調查報告大概家長都沒辦法調閱了所以希望在那個資訊裡邊事實上是要對等尤其針對監視器假設家長要調閱目前國教署這邊大概沒有一些相關的一些辦法"},{"start":3725.006,"end":3730.607,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":3752.972,"end":3775.821,"text":"主述我孩子講的一些內容我希望能夠達到所以這邊我還是會維持原意也就是凍結當然要不要併案我覺得可以同意可是還是會是凍結50萬以上這59跟60謝謝好謝謝陳培育委員謝謝主席我的是314國教署關於幼兒閱讀的部分因為幼兒閱讀其實我們目前並沒有相關的法規範我知道有相關的補助"},{"start":3776.221,"end":3797.802,"text":"我們希望日後有相關的法規範可以協助把幼兒閱讀補起來318的部分我們其實提出非常多關於國教署的閱讀、圖書館的部分那我相信這件事情其實國教署已經有在積極努力了我們也希望後續可以看到更多的進展不管是閱推人員、圖書館人員的專任或者是相關中小學教師的增能323也是國教署的部分"},{"start":3798.382,"end":3825.829,"text":"那一樣是跟閱讀有關的相關預算還有閱讀禮帶的事情還有英文購書經費的事情主要是現在有相關的補助可是不管是本土語言的閱讀英文的閱讀或者是大家在用的華文的閱讀其實相關的閱讀的資源我們都希望可以協助學校積極的補足還有就是348代理教師的部分那這個部分我們知道其實國教署這邊有很多的進展可是其實相關教師的超終點吳政代理人數連年增加"},{"start":3826.389,"end":3835.32,"text":"在相關實質聘用政策的缺失。我們認為不是只有國教署,其實施藝師的部分可能也要重新來考慮。好,以上。那相關案子我都可以跟大家的案子一起並動。謝謝。好,謝謝。再來吳佩儀委員。"},{"start":3840.27,"end":3859.615,"text":"好,那因為我們常常在跟國教署一起會勘所以知道說國教署的預算很多都是實務上還有很多都是延續性使用所以一般我們都是很支持那這個部分我有兩個提案317跟324317已經說明過改成主決議324我要特別提出來那我的凍結金額"},{"start":3860.875,"end":3889.189,"text":"比較高,因為這個跟剛剛林玉琴委員關心的一樣都是臺北市培諾米達幼兒園性侵案件之後我們一再的跟國教署還有臺北市政府教育局在討論根據我們現有的法規、教保人員條例其實我們針對這個違法事件的調查跟通報是地方政府絕對是可以有所作為的但是在這個個案當中,中間有太多漏接、漏掉的環節"},{"start":3890.189,"end":3910.441,"text":"所以我是要求教育部必須要來訂定違法事件的調查參考手冊幼兒園的性侵違法事件調查手冊要提供給地方政府一個指引法規雖然有了但是一定要有指引出來絕對不可以再一次發生說相關的案件出現明明有法有行政人員"},{"start":3911.101,"end":3937.982,"text":"但是地方政府跟我們說他們不知道,不可以再有這樣的案件發生。那已經有在討論,等一下請國教署說明。那這樣我改成主決議,謝謝。好,謝謝。葉元芝委員。我知道國教署的預算都是用在小朋友身上,所以我沒有,我自己沒有特別提案,去凍結或是刪除。但是因為我在昨天的時候,"},{"start":3938.957,"end":3955.054,"text":"其實對於國教署有些政策是不滿的所以我才會提出要凍結教育部高官的特別費部分所以等一下我跟大家一起討論並動啦但是我是希望說國教署還是要針對比如說大家關心幾件事情第一個就是為什麼老舊校舍的更新這麼的緩慢"},{"start":3956.155,"end":3958.758,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":3975.63,"end":4002.217,"text":"所以以後一定要提案才能夠發言嗎?當然啊!對啊!為什麼?因為你現在已經在救我了!沒有啊!我...我...他有連署我們的啊!對啊!為什麼我不能發言?不是!我如果講了很久的話你這樣子講我OK!那我講不到兩分鐘你就叫我不要發言?不是!因為你今天要講斑斑有牛奶那些昨天都已經討論過了!我覺得大家要互相尊重啦!剛剛也有其他委員講斑斑有牛奶大家就互相尊重!我沒有講很久我只是跟署長提醒說等一下回答的時候可不可以一併回答我覺得"},{"start":4003.137,"end":4025.745,"text":"審預算因為等下大家要不要凍結都可以參與意見啊我為什麼不能發言每一題那個都可以回答20分鐘沒有 趙偉你這樣子打岔我你打岔我其實浪費更多的時間我本來快要講完了我快要講完了趙偉我們可以用這種程序來處理嗎讓提案的先講到他後面提案人先講講完之後你要講再講最後一個就是偏鄉教育因為上一次我們有質詢前一個部長部長所說針對偏鄉教育的指標"},{"start":4030.106,"end":4037.029,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":4052.615,"end":4068.235,"text":"就像剛剛雅玲委員說的就這一次先給他講完以後從他之後開始從提案的開始講好不好我的意思是說提案委員因為提案他已經有提案了嘛阿他已經講到一半先讓他講阿是等到他後面大家如果有時間我們再來補因為他後面有提案阿不是而且招委我覺得主持人的意識要中立阿"},{"start":4070.197,"end":4072.898,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":4085.725,"end":4088.867,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":4101.877,"end":4130.797,"text":"就你若要附著在別人的凍結案上講一個相關的我們OK那我剛剛是聽到你講幾個都是昨天講過的然後又是新的題然後都指定要國教所回答那那是平常你質詢的時候可以問不要在這個時候預算凍結案你又沒有提案所以我才打岔的好嗎不是那我要尊重一下現場的秩序嗎因為時間有限我們先讓提案人講完如果你還想再講跟提案相關的再發言好嗎"},{"start":4132.81,"end":4152.934,"text":"好那葛瑜君委員好謝謝主席本席關心幾個案子這四件都非常重要也希望可以得到回覆336、347、362跟373那第336案本席關心的是教育平權的問題"},{"start":4153.735,"end":4174.589,"text":"教育平權現在因為數位跟AI也變成數位平權跟AI平權從數據來看現在有很多學習歷程的這個機制底下經濟弱勢的學生的表現真的有受到局限我要再三的向教育部表達這件事情多元表現未提交的比例高達62%不僅如此我們不斷的提出證據跟這個銷售數據10萬份、20萬份的學習歷程商品"},{"start":4184.095,"end":4209.518,"text":"在瞎插、在入插這些平台上面賣得下下叫那進一步導致數位的落差是什麼呢有錢的學生可以付費買商品甚至更有錢的學生他可以用AI來製作精美的學習歷程那這些東西都上網可以直接買整套再更有錢的他根本就只要刷完卡他就躺著什麼事都不用做直接上傳就好"},{"start":4209.838,"end":4222.626,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":4237.182,"end":4253.814,"text":"教育部目前為止啦我們真的是說視而不見檔案大小有開放了嗎有幫助有去查緝這些這些學習歷程商品化了嗎有就說出來不然我覺得這個這個經費我們這樣花下去到底花在哪裡第347案我也要提一下"},{"start":4254.614,"end":4267.91,"text":"教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引教育部中小學數位教學指引"},{"start":4273.496,"end":4297.193,"text":"我個人是覺得這個預算我要把它刪減劣,我要凍結,為什麼?我要保護我們的這個立法院不分黨派的人都有被AI fake、deep fake影響啊結果我們的學童在教學的過程裡面是沒有辦法知道說有可能是假的那他看到這些被AI欺負的這些有的其他政黨的總召,這樣怎麼行呢?所以我是真的是非常嚴正的"},{"start":4298.715,"end":4313.111,"text":"說我們一定要把這些資訊要弄好不然我們這些預算編在這裡在做什麼我們看到有很多政黨也說這個這個在野黨的訊息都是都是假的都是真的都怎麼樣學生根本不知道有什麼misinformation這裡面完全沒有提到"},{"start":4313.772,"end":4340.172,"text":"怎麼會這樣那歐盟也講數位公民教育連專有名詞我們的臺灣這邊跟其他地方也對不起來所以這個部分是不是能夠說明一下不然的話我預算編下去說重視數位素養就進去兩頁然後講到深層式AI完全沒有提到deepfake這個造假最近還有其他黨團的總召去按鈴聲告學生根本搞不清楚這些真實人物在做什麼"},{"start":4344.555,"end":4349.239,"text":"第三百六十二案是雙語政策本席要再度確認雙語政策"},{"start":4365.413,"end":4391.421,"text":"國教署已經有學校午餐科學校午餐科就是對於營養午餐的部分的重視我們也認同學校營養午餐應該要好好的來做一個更精進現在也有校園食材登錄平台所以我們也建議是說未來這個精進的部分可以更往食農教育以及健康教育這個概念來走所以有一些是友善動物福利生產的食材包括說"},{"start":4392.441,"end":4413.412,"text":"之前我們講最基本的比如說那個雞蛋以前大量的雞蛋都是這個飼養的雞蛋都是龍格子雞蛋那現在也有一些業者開始慢慢採用這個比較開放的一個空間讓這個雞的飼養的過程裡面是可以比較安心的下蛋的"},{"start":4413.652,"end":4413.792,"text":"議員提供的資訊及資訊"},{"start":4440.542,"end":4450.787,"text":"規附的報告裏面一定要有這一項的一個規劃。謝謝。好,謝謝。然後下一位是林倩琦委員。謝謝教委還有各位同仁。那這一項裏面的幾案"},{"start":4456.77,"end":4457.31,"text":"教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":4478.94,"end":4507.135,"text":"他們的高級中學擴班政策的可行性做一個處理但是這一案在335案就改成主決議因為教育部之前也有去做相關的這個溝通那接下來339案其實也是對不起338案抱歉338案那其實跟剛才的問題有點連結那你們在7月份去現刊的時候"},{"start":4508.416,"end":4531.553,"text":"同意在相關的經費上還有整個班級滾動式的一個缺口的檢討還有在整個教學能量上的優化還有就是他高中職就學缺口班級需要增加的29到33班希望教育部這邊有很實質的做一個規劃跟處理這一案他也是同意就改成主決議"},{"start":4532.794,"end":4545.565,"text":"第三、繼續審查374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部主管374年度教育部"},{"start":4555.834,"end":4568.381,"text":"那我想325案非常的重要剛剛其實有很多人特別提到了大家都知道這個12年國民基礎教育的然後你們編的這個宣導費大概是901萬然後含媒體政策及業務宣導是610萬我必須要說現在對大家對於這個所謂媒體宣導其實都有一點害怕怕這個東西會不會被誤用會誤導或什麼所以這個東西一定要會好好的把它講清楚"},{"start":4583.09,"end":4610.271,"text":"所以為什麼需要做這樣?到底要宣傳什麼?這是很重要的。還有呢,我還是要提出來,國教數有一千多億,補助預算是大宗,我同意就是要補助我們的需要的一些學校。那除了各國立高中職費用之外,你整個體制大致都是在做這個處理。但是呢,我必須要說,現在已經改制了,六度已經改制了。但是呢,你們現在有很多的市,高雄市、台南市,"},{"start":4611.092,"end":4613.474,"text":"國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業"},{"start":4631.286,"end":4634.428,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":4653.482,"end":4680.58,"text":"的確是沒有提交的比率逐漸增加但是你們告訴我說沒有提交不代表他們沒有寫這是什麼理由沒有提交不代表他們沒有寫那寫的為什麼不提交你只要給我們一個說法為什麼不提交的比率會逐年增加而且經濟弱勢的孩子沒有提交的比率比一般的學生還要高"},{"start":4682.42,"end":4689.682,"text":"提交成果及表現的平均數,弱勢孩子一般學生低。國立大學附屬中學及一般中學經費來自一樣,設備由中央負擔,但大學端的支付"},{"start":4704.005,"end":4707.686,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":4721.59,"end":4744.049,"text":"我真的覺得因應12年國教的理想應該要增加老師的編制你可以把高中職老師兼待課的時數你有效降低到基本時數50%以下那你看嘛你要把這個當目標嗎像你看基本的授課14節那兼待課應該已不超過7節那目前待課老師的報表都是"},{"start":4744.87,"end":4760.479,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":4771.886,"end":4773.648,"text":"教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管48所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管49所屬單位預算案"},{"start":4792.426,"end":4798.088,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":4814.434,"end":4817.997,"text":"教育部主管114年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管114年度教育部主管114年度"},{"start":4830.109,"end":4848.241,"text":"我覺得這個東西等下應該委員都會很希望得到一個結果了好不好就很誠實告訴我們你們現在跟農業部還有未來這個到底該怎麼樣來做一個持續快完了最後一個就是有關353的案子我還是要特別提到353其實是非常重要的因為這有關於這個這個署長非常在乎的這個有關幼兒園的問題那我想每個人都應該評估各類型的配置"},{"start":4856.747,"end":4871.758,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫院作業基金、國立陽明交通大學附設醫"},{"start":4876.841,"end":4903.123,"text":"那你以正式老師的待遇要強化幼保的專業性和穩定性就很重要那你過去三年已經解決了中小學老師代理比例過高那你沒有把幼兒園代理教室的比例降低仍然維持30%的代理那我覺得你應該承諾這個減少代理老師的比率應該是要降到10%以下我覺得這是非常重要的還有一個我覺得最後我要提出來這個國教署應該好好的刪減"},{"start":4905.885,"end":4907.127,"text":"獲得優良且具有月寶經驗的非營利機構"},{"start":4913.929,"end":4939.219,"text":"國防部職場互助服務中心出了一個大包,大家都知道,署長也承接這個部分。但是呢,每個人都說這是幼兒園,但是這個幼兒園讓很多幼教中心,其實他非常的覺得幼兒園明明就是一個教保中心,然後這教保中心說實在的都是教育部自己搞的,然後你每年一次的這個幼兒園的基礎評鑑,他們都不用參加,教保中心跟一般幼兒園都不一樣。"},{"start":4939.599,"end":4943.501,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立"},{"start":4963.112,"end":4966.634,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":4980.503,"end":4980.843,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":4998.595,"end":5000.456,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":5021.974,"end":5023.335,"text":"三百二十九案高級中學教育編列154億元113年編列156億6千多萬"},{"start":5047.045,"end":5062.311,"text":"減少這個大概6%多那我不曉得就是在未來在發展相關的高中的一些所需的經費你是怎麼去做一個分配的但是我們看到其實現在最重要的就是在談12年國教那12年國教裡面108課綱的學習歷程檔案那學習歷程檔案其實我們已經講了很多出現很多的問題那不管是"},{"start":5070.014,"end":5097.505,"text":"剛才我們很多委員講的這個未提報率高弱勢學生的不公平商品化這已經一講再講但是呢我看起來我們好像現在對這件事情比較是束手無策那只能放任他就是自由去發展那甚至於我們以前說要做學習立成答案為的是要什麼其實是要減少升學壓力但現在孩子的升學壓力其實不減反增那我們又說學習立成答案可以協助他們做生涯探索可是現在很多的孩子在做學習立成答案"},{"start":5098.085,"end":5123.618,"text":"還是為了要去交報告而交看不出來有什麼這個生涯探索在裡面所以我們把這個學習歷程答案做到現在為止不管是家長、學生或是老師其實都有非常多的意見也沒有達到一定的成效可是呢我們在整體預算上面我們現在看起來是下降的所以我不知道就是預算更少你打算是要做什麼那減少的部分是在哪裡那希望國教署等一下能夠做一個說明"},{"start":5126.636,"end":5149.347,"text":"三百四十五案三百四十五案我想我分兩個部分第一個部分我們還是要提到斑斑有些奶這個政策我不免要提斑斑有些奶這個政策我也覺得教育部真的是蠻辛苦的因為這是農業部所提出來的教育部就這個奉命要下去執行但是教育部有一個地方有錯我覺得是"},{"start":5150.067,"end":5166.233,"text":"農業部政策倉促上路但是你教育部當時在跨部會的時候怎麼沒有跟農業部去把至愛難行的地方把它說出來你今天不把它提出來那執行面出了狀況那我們在第一線我想署長一定知道嘛我們大部分的學校"},{"start":5166.693,"end":5193.232,"text":"甚至我認為90幾%的學校都不會有冷藏設備我們在學校裡面的課程、人力這些不太可能有空餘的能力去支持這個政策這些在農業部在跟你談的時候為什麼都不說不說現在即便我要幫你們說這都是農業部的錯其實我覺得不然當跨部會的政策你們沒有辦法配合的時候是不是應該把它提出來"},{"start":5196.913,"end":5216.158,"text":"結論我們在教育第一現場是所有的學生、家長覺得現在是教育部失信於我們百萬學子當初我們要做斑斑有鮮奶的時候全國一致每一個孩子都有而現在有的縣市有做有的縣市沒做有的孩子喝得到鮮奶有的孩子喝不到鮮奶"},{"start":5216.838,"end":5226.985,"text":"我覺得教育部是不是可以來說明一下當時其實我們在委員會裡面質詢的時候很多委員也提出了很多寶貴的意見包括我們可以給這個營養午餐業者這個團善業者來做事實上有幾個縣市也是讓營養午餐的團善業者去做的"},{"start":5232.168,"end":5238.792,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":5258.883,"end":5286.18,"text":"在接下來的部分就是我們的老舊校舍那我想老舊校舍現在所有這個年限到底有多好動我不在這裡贅述但是事實上全國老舊校舍的量現在已經真的非常的大那即便有一些可能沒有達到你們覺得50年、40年但是還是要全面去做一個檢視那現在老舊校舍我們要怎麼做這個專案的經費下來夠不夠怎麼分配那這一點也希望等一下能夠聽到署長或者部長的說明"},{"start":5287.701,"end":5304.398,"text":"最後一個也是我非常關心的我對於不管幼兒或者是我們無障礙的這個部分我想長年以來我都非常關心這個部分結果我們發現其實在這個無障礙廁所的這個部分我們的規範好像都是以成人的這個標準來做"},{"start":5307.381,"end":5330.378,"text":"幼兒園的部分有一些身心障礙的小朋友我們沒有去照顧到幼兒園自己也不知道怎麼樣去來遵循說我們的無障礙設備設施包括廁所等等應該怎麼做所以這個我記得好像也有把它提出來過可是我們到現在為止也沒有一個方案出來也沒有一個具體的改善的一個措施出來所以我們是希望說"},{"start":5331.278,"end":5344.43,"text":"在這個部分第一個署長能不能告訴我們一下我們現在盤點了這全國你們所掌握的幼兒園的這個身心障礙孩子有多少那他們的障別分別是什麼那他們在這上面的需求我們要怎麼去達到以上好 謝謝林議警委員"},{"start":5350.439,"end":5370.786,"text":"謝謝主席這個項目我有比較多的案子有五個案子我簡單來講313案313案是關於代理老師因為我們現在國高、中、國小的代理老師如果要轉換縣市跟學校任教是由教育部授權各縣市政府是否採集值錢年資"},{"start":5372.987,"end":5381.792,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":5393.239,"end":5411.228,"text":"期續薪資不一造成代理老師權益受損教育部之前有說明說12月上旬會邀請各地方政府來研議不曉得研議的結果如何也請教育部等一下說明期待我們訂立一個全國一致的規範"},{"start":5414.27,"end":5437.241,"text":"三二零案三二零案是我長期關心的所謂的私校小聯考這個問題那教育部有表達說要修改私校要來修法規範私校又不得以測驗、口試或審查成績或其他類似考試的方式來招生可是我們還是可以看見很多考試中這樣的一個報導"},{"start":5438.742,"end":5456.444,"text":"我提出私校法第39條及57條的修正草案有明定說不得以考試或一個項能力指標對學生進行鑑別教育部來說明有表達對本席修法的支持所以本席"},{"start":5457.485,"end":5478.065,"text":"不堅持要動多少可是我還是要懇請教育部要加強要求縣市政府務必要落實對私立國中小這個監督的機制那如果學校使用考試的方式來招生那務必要請就是教育部這邊要嚴格管控目前的狀況"},{"start":5479.806,"end":5504.173,"text":"三二一案是本土語教學昨天有稍微提及到就是說我們師資跟排課真的是教學現場最大的難題教育部有提出直播共學可是找不到師資的問題還是很頻繁有現場的老師在反映說如果學校的課程安排跟直播共學的時段搭不起來就無法開課"},{"start":5505.213,"end":5513.137,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":5518.137,"end":5518.597,"text":"三、二、二案是交通車"},{"start":5544.533,"end":5564.146,"text":"學校交通車的車禍意外頻傳,之前有台北市某學校連續發生兩起車禍,這間學校的交通車租賃契約副本並沒有依照學生交通車管理辦法報與地方教育局被查。"},{"start":5565.266,"end":5581.57,"text":"在以臺中市為例今年5月前共稽查學校交通車有94次不合格率有32%其中違規的樣態以交通車沒有被查車領超過10年以上為最多所以我們如果從這樣來看的話其實"},{"start":5584.631,"end":5607.864,"text":"我是建議這樣的狀況放給全臺灣看起來都幾乎狀態一致所以我們可以從學生交通車管理辦法來規定那我們期待說交通車的駕駛人的交通安全教育訓練紀錄文件應該也要給予主管機關被查那也要落實整個的督查那另外"},{"start":5610.638,"end":5639.237,"text":"三三一案三三一案這個就是剛很多委員提及的高升的這個學習歷程檔案的問題那當然這個若從高中畢業生學習歷程檔案未提交率來看從第一屆到第三屆從18.31%提升到30.17%那對於弱勢學生未提交的情況更勝於一般生不過教育部來溝通的時候"},{"start":5642.719,"end":5667.65,"text":"有說明說沒有提交學檔的到中央資料庫的學生也未必表示沒有製作他們的學檔那另外對於經濟弱勢的學生學校也有挹注資源提供學習支持所以這一案我可以改成主決議就331案不過我還是希望教育部能盡量來縮小教育機會的落差"},{"start":5671.032,"end":5689.59,"text":"三、五、六全教總在今年3月有召開記者會指出公立幼兒園的基層教師反應很多縣市出現公立幼兒園有半班編制狀態也就是說班級內只有一名的教保人員一次帶15個孩子"},{"start":5690.571,"end":5708.097,"text":"這樣的方法雖然沒有違法可是幼兒園的幼兒園的孩子治理能力有限班上只有一名教保員真的是不夠我們幼兒園的師生比我們要逐年逐步調到1比12核心的精神就是希望說讓孩子有得到更好的照顧"},{"start":5708.837,"end":5725.628,"text":"那一個班級也務必要配置兩位教保人員才能符合最基本的安全需求所以這些案真的要敦促教育部務必要盤點各縣市公立幼兒園教保服務人員的配比那不能放任幼兒園採這種半班的編制好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":5731.332,"end":5752.208,"text":"三三二案是關於希望教育部檢討課資師經過教育部說明之後可以接受改組決議三三三案是關於高中多元選修教師的終點費我認為應該要提升但是教育部的反應是說並沒有這個需求開課很穩定很足夠那跟我收集到的訊息是不一樣的"},{"start":5753.089,"end":5757.114,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":5769.047,"end":5777.96,"text":"三、關於學界的朋友反應教育部國教院的《台灣後期中等教育長期追蹤資料庫調查與研究結果》"},{"start":5783.907,"end":5808.222,"text":"並不夠公開教育部有給我們看行政協議書資料所有權都是在甲方國教署也都禁止乙方自行對外發表我想這個部分還是可以檢討一下在一定期限內或者是這當然就是各自都是保密的能夠讓學界研究這對我們教育也是好事如果可以的話我等一下可以改組決議"},{"start":5809.983,"end":5834.696,"text":"三、四、二案是關於代理教師的續薪法規因為釋憲案之後要求一定要修所以我希望並動等到你們修完之後我們一起解凍三、四、三案是關於現行教育人員留職停薪辦法把代理教師視為可隨時終止聘約的免洗塊那這其實連勞基法都不如因為有"},{"start":5836.017,"end":5855.419,"text":"正是老師中途突然因為原因改變那他就要代理教師立刻離職那我覺得他應該是可以先調派行政職那才不影響學生的連續穩定的受教權那例如說下學期再回來教學工作那我希望維持洞覺教育部再檢討這個部分以上"},{"start":5856.36,"end":5856.5,"text":"三、二、六"},{"start":5886.53,"end":5893.437,"text":"我是326案我想大家對學習歷程都非常的有意見我簡單最後再講剛剛經濟弱勢有講到我最近有接到離島的孩子跟我們講在離島根本要增加多元學習歷程是很困難的"},{"start":5903.167,"end":5926.446,"text":"對他們來說那個是一元兩元的問題不是多元就是新台幣的問題他還要來到本島來做一個學習歷程的一個進修對他們來說真的是很困苦那所以我想經濟弱勢還有那個偏遠的以及這個離島的這個都應該好好來檢視所以學習歷程我們是真的覺得很不OK那昨天聽到的一些解答我覺得是有要進步但是"},{"start":5926.866,"end":5935.156,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":5946.79,"end":5960.838,"text":"還是一樣我們剛剛在講老舊校舍講很多次了不說那我們另外再講一個就是所謂的牽動校園、廁所、老舊問題的一個要重視我希望這個國教署目前有說要準備開專案是真的嗎"},{"start":5962.279,"end":5988.04,"text":"那我們是很期待那你是不是趕快給我們回應一下還有再來就是偏遠地區的學校老師教育的發展條例就是要改善環境交通失智不穩還有經費的問題可是現在我們執行下來專聘教師的還是名存實亡111年跟112學年度都還是掛零這部分我們是非常非常的關注也希望應該要好好的來重視那另外再來就是354案"},{"start":5990.646,"end":6018.137,"text":"準公幼政策推動以來我想這個是利益良善要福國利民來幫助年輕的家庭我們都一定支持但是現在我們看到有幾個缺失我希望一定要改進第一個缺乏嚴謹的監督機制那對這個公幼的補助款項監督不夠嚴謹我們是不是應該要來了解一下這個監督的機制要來做一個整備那再來就是退場的機制曖昧不明我們簡單舉例"},{"start":6019.938,"end":6041.889,"text":"親子天下曾整理了全國教保網的資料發現許多准公幼屢次違規卻還在准公幼的名單中根據調查2018年、2023年6年間裁罰的紀錄六都准公幼違規的機率平均是33.7也就是三分之一的准公幼都曾經發生違規裁罰的紀錄"},{"start":6045.532,"end":6053.663,"text":"違規樣態禁用未具教保人員資格外籍教師甚至超收巧立名目為前三名"},{"start":6064.077,"end":6077.602,"text":"請國教署一起回應好,那我做簡單的回應,剛剛張耀林委員希望我們在辦說明會,這個我們會來處理另外實驗教育那個目前是3100萬,那麼新年度三類人員再進去之後會增加1000萬"},{"start":6078.903,"end":6093.055,"text":"稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開稍後我們會繼續檢視需要的時候我們會慢慢打開"},{"start":6094.636,"end":6118.734,"text":"成績報委員有330、340、340的部分我們會照委員的要求,其他一樣委員都有要求還是要去詳細了解,這個的確也要了解那麼身心條是這個事辦一學期,我們正式實施在這本學年本學年實施一學期之後,我們會來評估國中小的部分有沒有在這樣的一個需求尤其爸爸媽媽的部分,老實講所以高中實施一學期後,我們會收集意見繼續來評估那這兩個案子"},{"start":6120.936,"end":6122.057,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":6136.067,"end":6137.748,"text":"附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":6161.438,"end":6189.493,"text":"接著357的部分包含對監視器的補助還有現在剛才委員有提到修兩法相關的通報辦法或是調查辦法修了之後委員很關心要有指引這個我們會做處理剛剛有幾位一起都提到了另外葉齊委員這邊林委員提到359、360這個案子對於調查報告監視器這個我們已經行文但是那天去委員辦公室還是希望有些可以再一次改善包含說前一天看了第二天竟然要把它"},{"start":6191.095,"end":6196.444,"text":"除掉這一類比較惡劣的行徑我們都會行文來要求跟訂註要點接著是"},{"start":6198.25,"end":6202.494,"text":"陳委員有提到314、318、323、348等等幼兒園的閱讀及國中小的閱讀我們訂定三年計劃這三年計劃中會有藏書的錢就是314的部分預期會超過八千萬一年會超過八千萬國中小的部分三年會十億部長非常在意閱讀計劃"},{"start":6222.193,"end":6237.652,"text":"接著是有關318、323像英文Bookfront Taiwan這個我們大概在藏書的類型上都會讓它多元提供學校348代理老師這一個我們會來持續的檢討雖然有進步了但是我們還是會繼續努力"},{"start":6238.152,"end":6264.028,"text":"接下來是吳委員所提的以北市個案看到的一些要努力改善的包含通報辦法、調查辦法、訂定檢核表跟指引我們就會來處理接著是葉委員所提的老舊班班還有校安、課綱、偏鄉這個容許我待會並同一起說明其中校安的部分昨天有檢視給委員委員可以看到說我們跟縣市開了兩次會之後校安的部分"},{"start":6265.748,"end":6269.209,"text":"各位委員這邊的336、347這兩案原則上對於4還有10M這一個我們來努力了解一下基層老師跟學生實際運用的情況我知道如果是10M的影像的話大概你以720而言他只能大概20秒左右但是我們有一些"},{"start":6291.716,"end":6309.896,"text":"這比較少我請教過委員也請教過一些專家這一些我們再跟高教司、計時司還有相關的招聯會我們來一起再評估一下至於商品這一個是不是我們跟高教司還書發部相關的單位甚至警政單位一起來處理我們會特別在20天內跟委員做一個報告再來是"},{"start":6313.517,"end":6341.283,"text":"紅委員的部分這個希望能夠對友善動物的部分像舉雞蛋能不能夠納入石燈平台做一些友善的處理這個我們已經在評估中評估後大概在20天內會跟委員回報林委員這裡所提到的就是徐欣穎委員這一個現在初步大概是62班的規模左右已經暴行政院現在在努力的爭取經費中柯委員這邊有325、327、353等四個案子基本上"},{"start":6342.557,"end":6355.119,"text":"高中職的部分的宣導昨天有特別報告可能在高中職的升學尤其技職的強化還有學習歷程檔案這些未來昨天有提到每生會有一本手冊"},{"start":6357.376,"end":6358.357,"text":"國立大學改修"},{"start":6379.127,"end":6398.519,"text":"國立大學改制這一個約略在我們新要點之後他要編百分之五學校規模的百分之五他有兩個好處第一個好處去支持他是改例第二個他要我們看到事前有承諾我們才可以改但是以前的學校這個可能我們就要來檢討新法之後的一定要照這個規範這我們來補資料給你"},{"start":6401.201,"end":6403.063,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":6424.562,"end":6434.225,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬"},{"start":6450.589,"end":6460.795,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬"},{"start":6479.799,"end":6495.411,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":6506.48,"end":6522.25,"text":"就是移給那個為什麼有兩億元這個落差其實在今年開始因為我們有1429個元額移給國立高中國立高中要自編經費就好他不必再由本署編來請補助所以我們直接移給他就變成他1400這個是在109年爭取110年開始落實到112年的時候開始給學校那接著是對"},{"start":6536.831,"end":6552.338,"text":"所以他112之後給學校學校他還沒有正式的運用所以現在正式給他之後我隨便舉個例子學校有時候給他100個名額他有8個沒有用類似這樣我們現在就整個移給他類似那個2億元他是移列的到時候我把那個預算算給委員看一下接著是345萬委員提到有關那個無障礙的這一個跟委員老實的說明一下有13類其他其他類為第13類"},{"start":6563.242,"end":6589.027,"text":"三百四十五你提到斑斑以及幼兒無障礙幼兒無障礙三百五十五這個數字放慢一下好不好對,三百四十五好,三百四十五案這一個當時有提到團善業者或是用券的方式券的方式因為他可能會只加惠都會地區偏鄉地區他還是處理不到他在問題上還有他會特定的品牌上架的經費會比較高"},{"start":6589.867,"end":6590.067,"text":"這一案我有一個重點"},{"start":6613.932,"end":6636.26,"text":"你沒有回答到就是說勞動部當時在跟你們談的時候你有沒有把一些至愛難心的地方在跨部會會議當中你有把它提出來嗎?原來有提到說能不能夠有一些反映說跟團善但是我們普遍接到縣市希望用共同公益契約共同公益契約就是農業部自己訂各縣市不用自己訂他們希望這種方式所以團善的共同公益契約這兩個都商量過最後選用共同公益"},{"start":6639.042,"end":6644.468,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":6653.658,"end":6659.9,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金﹚"},{"start":6675.245,"end":6684.328,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":6699.674,"end":6717.879,"text":"新訂的要點的部分我們會在4月以前訂完在訂完前有關需求的部分我們還是會用預算來協助跟縣市一起來努力協助只要他有個案提出來我們都會找專家一起去評估然後給他協助這就在還沒訂出來的前嘛會協助所以沒有就無縫接軌"},{"start":6718.659,"end":6737.048,"text":"市長,如果這個標準還沒有定出來的錢,你就算錢給他,他也不知道怎麼做。沒有問題,我們會找學者專家。所以4月以前要怎麼做,這件事情可能你還要再說清楚。好的,那會後跟委員報告,基本上會跟學者專家專案小組一起幫他,否則那個幼生的部分要人陪同,跟有一些比較年紀大的不一樣。"},{"start":6737.808,"end":6759.059,"text":"好,兵委員的部分是5案,這我簡單的說明一下,12月4號已經開過會,原則上我們盡量會來協助,各縣市大概有共識。那最後,那有一些細節上是不是容我後續,可能因為委員也都讓我們可以用主決議,我們會後來再來補充。有些會用行政的文來督導。那范委員所提的,有些已經改主決議,我們會來檢討。另外,要開新課能獎勵的,我們也會訂有一些相關的這個注意事項或是要點。"},{"start":6764.482,"end":6782.829,"text":"蘿薇園已經有報告線上開課專篇的部分我們用正式的更好所以這一個我們也會跟縣市一起來檢討最後那個總共優惠部分原來親子天下那個問題是前6年兩期的問題第三期都已經改善但是還是會持續要求看如果需要改善我們還是持續努力以上補充謝謝"},{"start":6783.709,"end":6796.317,"text":"那謝謝吼,我想大家若不滿意的話,等一下用預算來凍結表達繼續溝通吼,那我們現在就請361案到392案這個部分吼,那就換過來從林益金委員先講吼,然後等一下再一起處理。"},{"start":6800.74,"end":6803.982,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":6824.181,"end":6824.581,"text":"同一節同一節"},{"start":6843.434,"end":6868.062,"text":"放心啦,謝謝委員長部長希望說整目一起動他比較好處理啦因為這樣子他會不會沒焦點大家任何一個報告不滿意就到時候就不要解動啊不是因為這個是我們在審查預算之前也是這樣就是如果我們從哪裡劃開就從那個早晚開始做動結數的處理我並沒有這樣子我劃開都是跟結有關今天這樣子是為了讓大家發言方便啦因為我剛本來想到392一起這樣"},{"start":6871.063,"end":6874.106,"text":"一幕一起動比較好好嗎?那個局部長希望說一幕一起動他這樣比較好調節預算"},{"start":6881.596,"end":6900.862,"text":"361-392"},{"start":6903.143,"end":6903.784,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6920.775,"end":6943.36,"text":"程序問題稍微先處理萬美玲的委員的說法。因為真的太多了啦。對啊。不用擔心,我是覺得不用擔心啦。不是,我們在審查預算當然是,當然就是我們在審查為主,不是說部長想什麼審查我們要配合他來審查。不是,因為也好多委員點頭希望說整個一起動啊。沒有沒有,我想我提這個齁,其實不是,不是,"},{"start":6945.28,"end":6972.472,"text":"我想這樣就是我們提這個不是神來一筆突然要做這個改變當然當然是因為我們之前在宣告的時候每次從宣告那個點開始我們就會去處理凍結數或是三減數可是我並不是這樣可能你當時候也沒有說清楚所以我以為是到昨天一樣我剛剛本來是要到392一起講是因為你說這樣量太多了因為我主要考慮它就是同一節同一幕嘛因為這樣比較好處理是因為你說這樣太多了我配合你可是我們本來它就應該是同一幕同一節一起動啊"},{"start":6973.732,"end":6974.712,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":7003.038,"end":7003.598,"text":"請求召委分開審查"},{"start":7035.278,"end":7055.903,"text":"主席各位我想我們是不是做一個折衝這邊還是先可以有一個討論一個數字那下面有一個數字然後等一下兩個再一起加起來就變成我們在同一個節裡邊我覺得這我可以接受那部長提出解方我們今天前面談一個數字後面談一個數字最後加起來就是整目一起並動"},{"start":7057.403,"end":7065.546,"text":"關於前面這個部分到360案大家希望動多少?林益菁委員提議一千萬後面有人附議齁?陳培委員附議"},{"start":7073.491,"end":7074.552,"text":"張雅琳委員還是表達他的意見"},{"start":7095.51,"end":7116.926,"text":"因為部長有這個妥協方案我就尊重部長我們最後還是並動但是數字分批討論好嗎那如果林益金委員這個一千萬沒有別的數字我們前面就一千萬有有意見有意見因為我現在看到在這個到到這個地方為止我們的委員其實也有提議要動我看有別的委員有提議要動議的"},{"start":7118.658,"end":7126.6,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":7150.166,"end":7150.706,"text":"三八一、三八七"},{"start":7180.226,"end":7181.788,"text":"協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助"},{"start":7202.008,"end":7221.807,"text":"387是我昨天有提及的就是大學端提及免費的生理用品的問題那因為從大學端的執行狀況來看那當然高中以下也有可能就學校不會主動來通知生理用品的擺放地點"},{"start":7222.988,"end":7237.522,"text":"領取程序反鎖等等。可是教育部有來跟本辦說明有提到說免費提供生理用品在高中以下執行的反倒比較好。當然這一點是肯定"},{"start":7238.103,"end":7256.355,"text":"那不過還是希望說還是請教育部要多跟學校多宣導就是說若時就近取用尊重個人隱私還有就是說定點取用不需要實名登記才不會讓女學生有需求卻不好意思取用以上"},{"start":7259.137,"end":7278.93,"text":"萬美玲委員謝謝我有兩案我們先看368案368案也是本期長期很關心在特教的部分我想我們特教法修法之後我們當時有請教育部我們接下來盤點看一看我們不管是在各校分散式的資源班跟巡迴的輔導班的老師、師的配置的情況也要針對"},{"start":7283.413,"end":7311.34,"text":"如果這個服務的師生比其實可能這個服務學生人數過高那怎麼樣去協助督導或者是協助地方政府去做改善因為不是每一個縣市都有能力可以去把它做一個很好的改善那這個部分的話教育部好像還沒有一個很明確的成績出來那我們這個我們也有提到那時候說5年要達到師生比1比8這個目標大概還要多久那再來呢另外再看到"},{"start":7311.94,"end":7322.363,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院校務基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":7341.369,"end":7360.256,"text":"特別在看到我們在這個人員禁用上面好像也只有國中的部分是達標高中跟幼兒園的巡迴輔導班目前都是15比1這個數字看看對不對如果是的話我想相關的辦法我們也要出來看怎麼去做一個協助那為我們特教的孩子來盡多一點的力"},{"start":7361.596,"end":7380.789,"text":"另外在378案其實我就很簡單的來說一樣我們是就是針對我們在這個專輔人力上面沒有聘足的部分我想我不要再去贅述因為說得很清楚那我希望在專輔人力的這個補足上面我們要怎麼做能夠再跟我多做一些說明好不好以上"},{"start":7383.244,"end":7386.809,"text":"科智恩委員366 特教加級30年沒有調整基本工資調漲幅度至少要調整到4000元以上"},{"start":7400.946,"end":7427.193,"text":"支援班教師僅提供一份導師費。這是對於導師費均分的不合理現象,應該要落實班級編制教師給予足額的導師費。我覺得你跟不分類的支援班教師共用會造成很多教學的干擾,所以你真的應該提供經費來進行改善,提供獨立的空間來保障我們這些特殊生教學的權益。"},{"start":7428.513,"end":7431.655,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育"},{"start":7453.849,"end":7469.601,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":7471.542,"end":7472.243,"text":"三百七十六案中,分為甲類與乙類。"},{"start":7488.903,"end":7501.115,"text":"但我對於以類是有意見的,因為以類你配合單位來作刑,你上班時間要在單位執勤,下班後又要返回居所,然後你20小時要隨時待命來執勤,然後應該將校安中心專線的電話還會轉接到個人的聯絡電話,所以他們遇到重要事情就要馬上來做處理。"},{"start":7511.986,"end":7512.586,"text":"協助協助協助協助"},{"start":7533.633,"end":7553.596,"text":"要求這個教育部一定要確認這個每日施行校務就是所謂創新人力下班後以內執行的必要性如果有必要性的話請你明確的訂立他的執行的津貼然後你要補足學校在下班之後以內執行所增生的一個費用啊那我說實在的"},{"start":7554.336,"end":7568.344,"text":"執勤只是按僱主指示執行工作啊然後呢,都是執勤你就要給津貼啊你不能叫這些乙類的人就是免費來執勤啊不然你就請勞動部明白來解釋嘛那你校安夜間這個學校中心電話準要個人電話不是執勤也不需要給津貼那勞動部敢不敢做這樣解釋如果他不敢做這樣解釋那你未來一定會給學校帶來非常多的這個正義跟勞基法的一個訴訟嘛所以我覺得這部分還是要理定清楚"},{"start":7583.131,"end":7605.808,"text":"這個對於乙類的人力一定要乙類金儲否則我說實在會對這些人造成一個非常不公平的一個對待那其他另外兩案就是比較簡單我還是要請國教署解釋一下因為你們在一般的教育就是不好意思在390案的時候你們在一般教育推展的這個部分當中你第91頁裡面你一般業務的督導經費有606.3萬你的用途是什麼"},{"start":7611.732,"end":7618.239,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院校務基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":7631.554,"end":7631.654,"text":"協助協助協助協助"},{"start":7650.023,"end":7656.965,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":7678.251,"end":7680.353,"text":"林倩琦委員這案最主要是在整個特殊教育通報系統的平台之前出了問題但是業務單位的說明也就是因為在LAG的部分產生了一點誤差"},{"start":7703.374,"end":7709.177,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":7731.068,"end":7756.302,"text":"整個教育的發揮能夠更好。以上。好,謝謝。葛如君委員。謝謝召委。那我這邊兩個案子。第一個是362案。那關於雙語政策,本席真的需要替全國的師生再次確認,到底雙語政策走到現在這個地方。"},{"start":7757.102,"end":7769.319,"text":"教學現場亂象重生教育部的立場到底是什麼那我們之前問你們就說沒有改變但是我還是要再講這五個大家都不想聽的字斑斑喝鮮奶"},{"start":7770.994,"end":7797.344,"text":"所以有政策你們是會推但是最後還是取消那我們這邊看到有非常多這樣的一個狀況我們提出來問題很久了包含剛剛講的AI平權包含我們剛剛講到的這個學習歷程動作很緩慢但是在做這種比較是政治性的、政策性的或者甚至是這種其他部會請你們協助的話就推得很快啊取消的也很快"},{"start":7798.044,"end":7810.595,"text":"那到底雙語政策接下來要怎麼做?我們預算編了還會推行下去嗎?還是又會發生說像我自己最近在練英文我都在用這些AI的服務啦這些雙語的服務我們雙語的教學"},{"start":7813.021,"end":7840.76,"text":"加上AI可以講108國的語言我們真的還有要做嗎還是說到最後又像斑斑喝鮮奶一樣錢花了說停就停而且重點是不讓基層有準備的時間所以這個為什麼我們提出這個案子是這樣我還是希望教育部明確說清楚那第二個是373案一樣是在講特教老師那特教老師每學期初是需要針對學生去擬定個別化的教育計畫"},{"start":7841.781,"end":7858.48,"text":"那我們接受到非常多的訊息說現在已經是所謂AI內閣AI時代AI世界的中心就是臺灣結果數位化的時代之下推動智慧化的政府竟然還在要求第一線的特教老師要全職本的作業寫完再掃描"},{"start":7860.041,"end":7886.997,"text":"掃描完的檔案還要壓縮不然上傳不了到系統其實增加了非常多第一線老師的行政負擔教育部的預算溝通的時候說正在徵詢老師們的需求之後要建置電子化的系統這邊還是需要請部長還有相關的官員明確的答覆那這個系統在哪裡?什麼時候要上線?不要有些東西很快有些東西真的很慢真的是趕不上這個時代有賦臺灣作為這個科技之島的名號謝謝"},{"start":7890.98,"end":7891.261,"text":"陳培宇委員"},{"start":7898.083,"end":7924.729,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我的是三期二關於特教在這個會期我們發現很多縣市政府不知道為什麼要求特教老師要單獨再寫特殊課程教育計畫可是明明就已經有IEP了甚至地方政府的委員還要求實質審查我們之前開過協調會那我不確定現在各縣市政府是不是真的有收到國教署相關公文的通知不要再增加特教老師的負擔了那所以我們有相關的提案"},{"start":7925.429,"end":7948.349,"text":"接著是普特融合的課程指引,國教署說會有進度,但是因為還沒有看到,所以我們還是會持續監督。至於特教生共用教室的部分,還有導師費的部分,我相信很多人都很關心,因為特教老師在現場壓力真的很大,而且越來越沒有人願意當特教老師了。另外關於助理員的部分,國教署也說會用線上的課程,還有相關服務手冊。"},{"start":7949.75,"end":7957.113,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":7971.198,"end":7985.557,"text":"一起努力一起溝通因為不是只有法案其實有更多教育現場的困境需要國教署用國教署的高度來協助以上先這兩個部分那我可以跟其他委員的提案一起並動謝謝好 謝謝那張雅玲委員"},{"start":7988.423,"end":8015.16,"text":"對不起我漏看了,郭玉琴委員這個部分是第380案我想教育部跟警政署合作研發反詐騙課程的一個模組是希望能夠幫助學生建立防詐的一個資能但是根據112年的統計其實這個學校的學生遭詐期的一個案件其實也比111年要來得更多"},{"start":8015.62,"end":8034.386,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學院校務基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":8043.749,"end":8059.518,"text":"那怎麼樣來提升這學生防詐的一個能力跟意識才能夠減少這個部分的發生那這個部分我沒有特別堅持可以跟其他的一些委員一起來做並動謝謝 以上好 謝謝那請張雅琳委員那張雅琳委員演完之後再請林燁琴委員好嗎"},{"start":8063.342,"end":8088.562,"text":"好,我有兩個案子一個是365案那針對也是特殊教育的部分那因為今年其實我們有針對特教助理員補助聘任經費並且有進行的機制但是這部分的執行成果到底是怎麼樣待會請國教署做個說明那我也擔心各地執行的狀況不太一樣所以是不是可以請國教署明年度要針對各地方的狀況去做一些了解有沒有哪個縣市執行不佳"},{"start":8089.703,"end":8101.662,"text":"並且依據這個狀況來去調整我們教育部國民及學前教育補助高等以下學校及幼兒園禁用特教學生助理人員的作業要點。除了"},{"start":8104.73,"end":8117.982,"text":"因應我們一些特殊學生的一些多重狀況,我們是不是可以在這個真能課程裡面呢,增加一個個案討論的時段,讓他們可以彼此去了解可以怎麼樣來協助跟處理這樣子。"},{"start":8121.406,"end":8135.084,"text":"三百七十五案是針對於最近的校安事件,自殺智商率持續增加。現在是有15到45歲青壯世代的心理健康支持方案,但是其實國中的"},{"start":8135.785,"end":8150.739,"text":"自殺自傷人數持續增加。目前國教組說,國中小學生問題並不是只有提供免費諮詢服務就好,而是要依據整個族群嚴密相關配套規劃。"},{"start":8151.88,"end":8173.115,"text":"那我也是蠻認同的那我也想了解什麼時候會提供這些相關的配套措施的一個方案呢是不是能夠在114學年度前就來完成這樣子的配套方案那待會就是請國教署一併說明那我也可以跟其他的委員併案處理謝謝好謝謝那羅廷偉然後待會林月琴委員"},{"start":8176.4,"end":8199.031,"text":"我是367案我想特教學生的助理員人數不足我們持續在關注這一個問題我想他是支持教師教學的一個現場狀況並協助這個特殊生很重要的一個關鍵人物那我們再者看到特教學生的助理員從今年8月已經調薪但特教教師的助理員並沒有同步調整"},{"start":8199.691,"end":8214.066,"text":"所以這個部分我們是希望能夠國教署應該要好好的注重這件事情再來國教署我們要建議應該要加強的監督這個定期檢視各校無障礙設施的設備是否符合法令的規範還有學生的一個需求"},{"start":8215.328,"end":8229.865,"text":"我用110年底的數據,仍有7所國立高中職為依建築物無障礙設置規範去完成當然你們會再進步,我知道,但是我還是要再提醒加速建置完整的無障礙環境給孩子再來是377案"},{"start":8236.335,"end":8258.746,"text":"三期新案是要講到現今中央政府會制定專法對於營養午餐法我覺得這個部分我們是非常非常的希望趕快將法案送到立法院來審我想各地方政府也因為財政狀況及地方的考量造就現在各縣市政府的一個政策營養午餐是多頭馬車"},{"start":8260.367,"end":8289.141,"text":"那不管現在財化法分下來的地方預算有增加地方的一個財政我們還是希望營養午餐的政策能夠由全國來做一個公式甚至來幫忙協助有讓他們有一個更好的一個方向所以營養午餐法之前部長有答應我說會送進來到目前都還沒有看到的話我是覺得非常可惜我覺得為了要督促營養午餐法這個部分的話"},{"start":8289.841,"end":8303.748,"text":"我可能就會在這一個凍結數裡面會比較堅持那絕對不是因為針對國教署或者是要處罰但是我希望透過這樣子的方式來督導這一個營養午餐法趕快送進來"},{"start":8305.444,"end":8329.07,"text":"謝謝羅廷慧委員 林月琴委員請發言我這邊大概有六個案子我只先針對三案來做說明也就是在382案這邊我國在113年1月1號就已經有施行道路交通安全基本法也要求各級學校要針對交通安全教育跟推廣道路交通安全教育的宣導活動都要做"},{"start":8330.15,"end":8355.203,"text":"目前我們看到教育部有在做不過比較是在做宣導那參考歐洲運輸安全協會的建議為推行交通安全教育的話應該政府應該去提供學校支持系統來加強教師交通安全教學的能力必要時應該要到各校有一個指派的聯絡教師來鼓勵我們的學校來訂定交通安全政策"},{"start":8356.584,"end":8367.374,"text":"教育部要按照這樣子來做執行那383同樣也是的確現在有五階段的課程模組不過我們現在知道你的數據上的確顯示說推廣到達96%可是實務上我們自己看到的現象不是這樣一個學校你"},{"start":8375.242,"end":8383.789,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院校務基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":8394.238,"end":8395.919,"text":"教育部提交報告385案,目前幼童專用車總共3,515輛"},{"start":8420.139,"end":8446.376,"text":"近5年來領牌照的1794輛對照這3年來的交通事故每一年平均有30餘件甚至有死亡希望幼童專用車只有中華德利卡來改裝上市可是過去所謂的安全係數並不高所以我希望教育部針對幼生的交通安全應該更積極地去做查核在路上攔檢"},{"start":8447.717,"end":8449.057,"text":"以保障孩子的安全性"},{"start":8467.705,"end":8470.046,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金"},{"start":8489.474,"end":8500.004,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":8510.054,"end":8538.401,"text":"各個階段一直到幼兒園四階段的那個比例能夠來完成那個目標那其中幼兒園跟高中的部分它的服務型態比較不一樣我細節的跟委員做報告說明有定的辦法剛剛委員說要有定辦法事實上是有定辦法辦法我再給委員37、8的部分希望能夠聘組剛才專輔人你剛才已經有跟你們報告我們會訂一些其他的誘因包含交通費能不能夠更滿足當他要跨校服務的時候"},{"start":8539.361,"end":8554.471,"text":"這就是科委員366案的有幾個案子,包含特教加解我們已經抱怨,那抱怨一次之後有回回來我們再去統整一下,那另外有提到導師費的部分"},{"start":8556.323,"end":8560.824,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管"},{"start":8585.409,"end":8612.919,"text":"導師費的部分我們會跟地方政府和基層老師一起來檢討因為現在導師費大概是一份就像現行國中小有一個導師是一樣導師的分工跟導師費要不要兩份那特教的孩子可能比較複雜需要更多的幫忙等等那個跟涉及導師的工作項目跟實際上的照顧這個是不是容我一個院內跟地方政府跟基層老師會商之後跟你們報告獨立空間的部分有幾位委員有提到事實上現在只要有提我們都能夠來補助"},{"start":8614.239,"end":8630.18,"text":"三七六的部分學務創新一類人員這個我們一個月內跟我們有關工作同仁跟縣市一起來瞭解他的相關的今天以及相關工作內容跟勞動部的解釋不能違法但怎麼讓他能夠落實那他的必要性也會同步檢討一個月內跟委員會報"},{"start":8632.623,"end":8638.988,"text":"三九零案的部分有提到90頁的那個那個我們再補資料給委員那600萬是涉及到我們的幕僚單位因為那個預算書的格式沒有辦法細寫太多但我們把那個細節的那個內容在半小時內我們已經準備好到現在最後會後半小時內補給你那個85億那個依改例的有85億這個那至於剛剛已經有回覆那個兩線是那個會後再找委員可以的時間跟您報告"},{"start":8660.202,"end":8676.116,"text":"林委員有提到徐委員關心的通報平台那個會前已經跟他報告那我們盡量在今年的第一季會處理好那在特效師申筆的部分剛剛已經有講我們有個辦法再減負給委員那柯委員所提的362案跟371案362案的部分那麼基本上"},{"start":8676.476,"end":8681.301,"text":"第11屆第2會期教育部總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":8693.598,"end":8719.638,"text":"在生活化上、生活上或是運用上而不是變成是一個考試的科目那類似他就不要只是用科目他可以用比如說跟老師互動的時間晨間時間、午餐的時間、休息的時間讓他可以多用而不是在科目上又影響到可能的那科目的學習所以他是比較朝生活化而且是生活情境脈絡化的方式那我們會訂一個三年計劃"},{"start":8722.1,"end":8741.074,"text":"三年計劃其實會給委員一個是雙語政策接著是371的我們未來在電子化IEP的部分會先處理完相關的指引規範之後把它轉成IEP讓學校只做一次就好而且是這個時代不要再過度的那個紙本了接著是陳委員所提的這個372案"},{"start":8742.595,"end":8745.456,"text":"課程計劃已經簡化了,我們再把資料給您至於普特融合會有計劃,獨立空間那個我們已經做處理午餐專法的部分,我們3月已經報行政院因為審查的過程中還有人力以及餐費涉算的這個問題還跟地方政府在繼續溝通"},{"start":8760.741,"end":8786.361,"text":"細節還有相關的進度我們持續來跟您報告那郭委員持續有反映特教教師助理員加薪的部分我們已經處理了謝謝郭委員那另外郭委員有反映到那個反詐的部分我們會持續來強化照郭委員講的跟緊正單位而且課程要實務化張委員所提到的365案特教助理員那個月薪基本上月薪是全國都有教育部給比較沒有差別的問題但是我們會去注意到"},{"start":8786.801,"end":8790.204,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管"},{"start":8812.42,"end":8828.306,"text":"另外加速國立高中無障礙等等其實是全國高中跟國中小我們都會一起處理這個無障礙的盤點跟補助另外377案專法的部分剛剛已經有說明那現在是在人力跟相關參拜的公式上跟地方政府有比較多的協調另外一期委員所講到382的部分"},{"start":8830.327,"end":8857.403,"text":"那個宣導交通安全的教師能力的部分我們會跟委員一起來努力啦那委員對這方面有一些研究我們再來索取這個資料看看怎麼放到我們的教師研習中383案的這個五階段不定課程的這個雖然已經有做可能在學校的規模上不要只是不分的班級而能夠更廣及到全校性的這個我們知道那在不定課程以及相關的專業課程上再諮詢委員之後來落實那麼最後要有案幼童車的部分我們放入我們的考核事項謝謝"},{"start":8858.903,"end":8862.145,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":8878.072,"end":8906.804,"text":"那關於就是特教生所需要的交通車還有師生筆至於人員待遇以及教師是否具備特教職能這個部分希望說國教署這邊你們要持續的跟特教生家長教師們來溝通那你們有來說明就是說你們從113學年度會逐年的調降這個師生師筆也會再增加特教老師那在薪資方面也會依照考核成績來進行而且也會持續的補助縣市來"},{"start":8908.004,"end":8912.365,"text":"教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管"},{"start":8932.072,"end":8953.522,"text":"第362案雙語政策,屬長還是沒有回答到,教育部到底要不要繼續做?雙語政策有沒有要繼續推?第373案是這個系統到底什麼時候上線?如果都沒有回答到,我是沒有辦法做決定的,謝謝。國教署是不是簡短回應一下?"},{"start":8955.612,"end":8967.388,"text":"全球保護委員謝謝我們就來繼續努力並且跟家長教師來持續也溝通那麼專訪的進度的部分待會會後提供葛委員所提的雙語我們剛才有報告會有一個三年三年計畫兩個三年的計畫會持續只是內涵上我們會讓學校它在實踐的過程中會更接近生活化以及學生"},{"start":8973.416,"end":8978.281,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":8999.861,"end":9014.79,"text":"三六一到三九二案我們現在就來處理剛剛有委員提議說因為前面動了兩千萬這邊可以照列如果沒有委員異議的話我們後面就照列所以整目"},{"start":9016.171,"end":9022.834,"text":"第二幕整幕並動兩千萬書面報告後解凍以下改成主決議317、324、330、331、332、334、335、337、338、346、369、379以下改成主決議"},{"start":9041.443,"end":9065.338,"text":"我們可以補充一下好不好這個結論我們有意見就是我們前面那個部分我們動了兩千萬那我覺得我們還是要把它縮一下因為在前面那個部分我們有學習歷程檔案、老舊銷售這些延續性的重大政策所以我們動了兩千萬那後面的部分其實因為有很多都是在這個特教上面所以我覺得我們還是要說特教部分基金所回答的我們都可以接受但是都要照著回答來做"},{"start":9066.038,"end":9066.618,"text":"三九三到三九五案招案通過"},{"start":9086.793,"end":9099.39,"text":"三九六案到三九八到三九九案也是照案通過400案文字修正後通過401案到403案教育部照案通過404案到"},{"start":9102.543,"end":9125.871,"text":"到409案教育部照案通過410案、411案文字修正後通過412案、413案教育部照案通過那如果主決議這邊沒有異議的話主席宣告休息十分鐘待會讓體育署的上場謝謝國教署你們趕快回去上班吧好休息十分鐘"},{"start":9127.261,"end":9139.507,"text":"我去檢報室跟她的教授說你做這部份的節目別人是我的女神,我當女神,你為什麼覺得你都不喜歡女神?"},{"start":9152.274,"end":9158.321,"text":"教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":9170.656,"end":9188.382,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學�"},{"start":9197.276,"end":9215.188,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":9233.11,"end":9244.307,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":9248.913,"end":9254.996,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":9265.362,"end":9274.068,"text":"教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":9283.254,"end":9296.79,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":9306.361,"end":9320.026,"text":"裸東高工,我有問信譽,因為他們的學校需要有教練,沒有沒有,你們沒給他,因為他說他們成立五年可是成績非常的好,對對對"},{"start":9327.748,"end":9337.853,"text":"因為他是配合我們三級銜接的委員會哪一案哪一案?第幾案你跟我講第幾案你跟我講,因為要跟委員講這個有話給我們一人,我們話一千萬而已我們一百而已,成績越來越好,結果在幹越多"},{"start":9357.163,"end":9366.471,"text":"我跟妳說,教育部還沒有一個文化部的動棉布。我知道,可是那些新的就很討厭,就那三個男生。"},{"start":9379.822,"end":9402.212,"text":"提願人士之外幾個職業?No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,"},{"start":9403.157,"end":9409.704,"text":"但我們還是會講一下那個跟您報告,待會我們可能還是案情提案稍微講一下,但是也跟您說"},{"start":9421.836,"end":9428.905,"text":"四十一的案件。就上一次講的吧?對對對,就上一次講的。因為那兩個,一個是運發基金的。一個是運發基金的。然後另外一個是那個要在五科中心做那個電競科技。對對對。但是我可能會講個說話。"},{"start":9440.979,"end":9452.987,"text":"運科中心本身他通常因為人才不夠,他不會直接做,但找大專相關的專家合作,運科篩選、招勞的嘛,這是他們的做法。那我們47可以一起提這兩個要求?大學或者業界啦,我們其他的運科老師這樣做。"},{"start":9471.339,"end":9484.467,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":9490.67,"end":9491.451,"text":"市長身體還好嗎?我還好,我還好。"},{"start":9508.234,"end":9525.073,"text":"主委應該是三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三小一、三"},{"start":9525.633,"end":9540.611,"text":"因為一、第二、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十一、二、三、五、六、七、八、九、十一、二、三、五、六、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一、二、三、五、十一"},{"start":9541.352,"end":9551.375,"text":"第二是第一份財政委員會的額外宣揚,也開始在報告一宣。14個月中央情商委員會議同時舉辦幾個委員會的新公席,上網那兩名財政委員會的副委員、副委員會的副委員。這兩名財政委員會的副委員都在附近觀光,他們也不愛我們做某些事。"},{"start":9566.16,"end":9569.542,"text":"農業部、稅層、工農、生意、教育、臺灣、電子、諾農、小銅、碼、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子、電子"},{"start":9596.197,"end":9604.227,"text":"主管144年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":9612.096,"end":9635.345,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委"},{"start":9636.718,"end":9645.185,"text":"我很好奇你14個月前告訴我都有人說增加老師的負擔,有什麼原因要責罪?所以就是在政策上有一些東西可能都要先更細膩的去溝通"},{"start":9725.737,"end":9735.188,"text":"好 我們現在進行體育署那我們第一幕那因為我們剛剛是從林盈瑾委員這邊開始我們現在就從秀寶委員第一幕你有案子要不要發言我在這邊有兩個案子是426案跟427案426案的部分呢"},{"start":9748.214,"end":9766.55,"text":"是針對我們這個專任運動教練的輔導管理這個業務那其實最近也很多新聞沸沸揚揚對討論最多最被關注的是臺中某國小棒球教練這個案子甚至受害者也非常多人不僅學堂受害也引起大眾的不滿跟憂心"},{"start":9768.671,"end":9787.933,"text":"但是我們沒有辦法理解就是說,體育署你明明就有運動教練輔導及管理的這個機制,照理來說不僅是專任的這個運動教練,廣義來看只要是運動教練都應該有一套管理輔導訓練這些機制,那尤其是未來成為運動部之後,我們也期待說應該是可以做的更多。"},{"start":9789.434,"end":9793.257,"text":"此案本席堅持要動。此案本席堅持要動。此案本席堅持要動。此案本席堅持要動"},{"start":9810.527,"end":9817.59,"text":"教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度教育部主管484年度"},{"start":9837.438,"end":9866.47,"text":"我發現說有些地方政府對這個防護員的這個設置普遍是有不足而且這個概念好像沒有很嚴謹例如說我們彰化縣只有聘用體育署補助的這個費用的原額這個對體育班的學生來講是非常危險而且很明顯的是很忽視這一塊的重要性那體育署這邊你們有來溝通我也理解說聘用運動防護員這個部分主要是縣市政府的主責"},{"start":9867.17,"end":9890.529,"text":"那我也希望說我們體育署這邊可以多加溝通來讓我們縣市政府理解到說這是他們的責任我們要保護這些在體育班的這些孩子他們在訓練在培訓的過程裡面能夠有保護到他們的健康保護到他們的安全那所以這個希望你們再多溝通跟多跟縣市政府來溝通要聘用這個運動防護員來保護我們孩子的安全"},{"start":9893.352,"end":9901.072,"text":"那這個案子我是可以改成主決議啦但是體育署這邊你們一定要積極去做溝通以上好謝謝那個葛禄君委員"},{"start":9905.115,"end":9925.937,"text":"謝主席我這邊有幾個案子本席第441案關心的是電競的運動體育署長鄭署長也是很年輕有特別到辦公室來溝通署長也理解這個電競的運動在年輕族群裡可以說是全民運動而且產值也非常高"},{"start":9926.698,"end":9943.15,"text":"那所以作為這個未來說不定運動部的部長熱門人選不管怎麼樣成立以後其實可以考慮將電競運動放在競技運動師去比照日本跟韓國的做法集中我們的國家資源來培養亞奧運等級的電競選手"},{"start":9945.852,"end":9968.749,"text":"如果臺灣能夠在電競運動上持續取得優異的成績當然我想整個全民運動的風潮跟產業都可以帶起來所以最重要的就是電競選手的培育而且是專業用心的培育還是問一下鄭署長是否可以在最近一次的運動發展基金的管理委員會的會議上面"},{"start":9969.289,"end":9997.7,"text":"去針對電競運動人才去提出一個專案讓基金這邊能不能來協助如果署長可以答應的話呢這一案441案本席同意改為主決議那另外第461案呢則是關於足協對於職員、球員有欠薪的問題現在是第一幕聽到438號不好意思好 謝謝那再來是那個柯志恩委員我們這邊容然再回到那裡OK"},{"start":10000.744,"end":10002.145,"text":"423、425專任運動教練檢核管理方法"},{"start":10019.952,"end":10021.494,"text":"專業檢核管理各縣不一樣,制度混亂專業運動教練辛苦,專業應該得到合理的對待和尊重基層反映"},{"start":10036.596,"end":10053.345,"text":"其實你的系部的這個績效的評量的標準因為是規定不同薪資競賽制度也很不合理所以我們希望能夠把它修成全國是一致的還有就是我以前在質詢的時候有特別提到了他們有關於公價派代的問題應該來給予解決這個部分是公價的派代問題然後第三個就是我認為體育班至少應該聘"},{"start":10063.51,"end":10090.726,"text":"三名不同的專任教練來確保他們總類真的是總類上不一樣所以應該是至少要有三名的專任教練才可以有辦法做這樣的一個處理那425非常的重要我想羅廷偉委員在424的時候其實跟我提到也是差不多的我們還是要知道因為體育署他編列了學生的游泳自救教學但是你看到這些資料各位你看到這些資料"},{"start":10092.888,"end":10108.337,"text":"108年到113年高中以下學生遇到溺水受傷失蹤的死亡人數179那其中溺水死亡的學生是74人這很可怕溺水死亡的學生有74人"},{"start":10109.938,"end":10113.28,"text":"112年高中以下的游泳教練有2千將近3千校占72%但是沒有實施游泳教學的竟然占27.9%吧?還有很多縣市高中以下根本沒有實施游泳教學超過五成包括我所關切的高雄、桃園"},{"start":10133.69,"end":10145.828,"text":"這些地方他們非常多的學校沒有實施這個游泳教學比例達到真的都是超過50%那你這個沒有游泳教學然後你再加上學生溺水死亡的人數這麼高所以我希望"},{"start":10148.571,"end":10164.505,"text":"體育署盤點各縣市沒有實施游泳教學課程的相關原因,進行改善,是否可以給予經費,因為這些每個孩子的生命都不能損失,所以通過游泳教學可以讓這些學生的溺水死亡人數可以降低。以下是這兩個案。"},{"start":10173.695,"end":10177.498,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管"},{"start":10190.988,"end":10191.889,"text":"一億六千七百萬一億七百萬一億七百萬一億七百萬"},{"start":10221.248,"end":10223.049,"text":"議員提供教育提供教育提供教育提供"},{"start":10240.454,"end":10255.254,"text":"推動學生學習游泳課程的狀況不一成效也不一嚴格來講這幾年的成效其實我個人感覺到是一直在倒退一直在下滑所以我想我們是不是在這個部分等下所講說明更清楚另外"},{"start":10257.096,"end":10263.401,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":10282.657,"end":10309.782,"text":"目前在聘任上其實很複雜正式的部分是縣市要編列這個經費預算來聘對不對但是其實現在我們知道各縣市要因應我們這幾年大量去推展體育的社團蓬勃發展其實力有未待那可能也沒有辦法有這麼多的預算跟經費那體育署能不能說一說在這個部分的話你可以給予各社團什麼樣的一個支持然後還有它的辦法啦公平性要是什麼"},{"start":10310.362,"end":10310.722,"text":"李慧琼委員"},{"start":10335.37,"end":10355.183,"text":"417案主要是針對學校的運動校隊體育班常常傳出性平事件及暴力事件的問題之前有臺北市某高中的和球隊教練利用職務之便長期對女學生發展違反倫理關係市政府卻涉嫌包庇"},{"start":10355.803,"end":10374.688,"text":"藍投縣也有國小棒球隊的教練以關懷弱勢學生為名10年來對22個男學生伸出狼爪宜蘭縣也有某國中體育老師涉嫌性侵多名女學生教武術時候借幫女學生按摩推拿用手指性侵等等"},{"start":10377.029,"end":10378.15,"text":"提供提供提供提供提供提供"},{"start":10394.399,"end":10420.469,"text":"專任運動教練及體育班及運動代表隊學生納入校園安全通報持續強化性平教育性平教育也有納入體育班的評鑑訪視等等不過因為各類的事件真的還是層出不窮我覺得最主要原因是體育班及球隊充斥著威權控管的文化長有權力的人就會"},{"start":10421.049,"end":10421.549,"text":"教育部教育部長"},{"start":10445.111,"end":10470.737,"text":"涉法來處理以上謝謝在羅廷維委員我們就順著剛剛還沒發言到的在後面好謝謝我先事惡事案那我想事惡事案剛剛柯志恩委員有特別提到這個游泳的部分我們是非常關注那有很多的數據一直在顯示那包括衛實師游泳教學的這個學校也有1158校"},{"start":10472.978,"end":10473.939,"text":"此學生無法享有良好的體育設施設備"},{"start":10490.529,"end":10516.105,"text":"那我要先講當然我一定要稱讚體育署體育署在這幾年的復出我們都有看到那包括這一年我們上任的時候體育署也很積極的陪我們在這個學校去了解到底設施有沒有可以再來幫忙協助的部分但是還是有很多需要我們關注的學校所以在這部分我有事惡事暗那另外我們對於這個近期台中有這個體育教練有這樣子的相關問題我們也表達非常的遺憾所以也希望"},{"start":10519.927,"end":10534.854,"text":"在這個柯志恩委員423案我們也曾經一起來開過會討論到這個運動專鏈的一個檢核管理辦法我們也是要呼應各縣市因為現在不一的制度已經造成很大的一個錯亂也應該要有一個合理的一個規範這個部分也要請體育署來正視這個問題另外是...沒有,就這裡了對,第一幕這裡"},{"start":10548.626,"end":10549.147,"text":"張雅琳委員提出提出提出提出"},{"start":10570.51,"end":10573.332,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":10600.99,"end":10626.518,"text":"那再來就是說我們學校讓這些教練進來的時候呢有沒有確實的去落實查詢他們有不適應的行為這個目前看起來可能體育署未來也需要更強化的去掌握每個學校都有去落實這個事情才能夠去確實的保護我們的小孩那再來第430案"},{"start":10631.19,"end":10649.728,"text":"430案的部分主要是因為說我們有個新南向政策學校體育交流計畫希望可以跟新南向國家進行一些運動交流跟移地訓練那因為過去其實有非常多的中國用一個中國用很多的球隊他用非常低廉的方式適應我們的孩子過去但是因為中國還是畢竟有人身安全的考量"},{"start":10651.149,"end":10652.751,"text":"提供提供提供提供"},{"start":10668.81,"end":10672.294,"text":"編列不同等級的預算,還是希望能夠針對相關預算編列以及分級補助進行研議。"},{"start":10688.305,"end":10709.62,"text":"好,那我的部分是這兩個案子然後我可以併案來處理不過我也想要延伸一下剛剛前面兩位那個科職委員跟外媒的委員他們來關注還有這個羅羅廷惠委員關注這個游泳教學的這個議題我想要這個體育所可能會不會可以提供我資料就是說這些學校有教的到底有沒有到底就是游泳教學跟"},{"start":10710.481,"end":10712.842,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":10726.508,"end":10730.289,"text":"431、432、436體育班教師參加研習人數從108年577下降到112年108包含國中及高中職體育班有一成學校經過"},{"start":10752.017,"end":10757.299,"text":"統計沒有參與課後課業輔導嚴重影響學生學習權益請教育部、體育署盤點調查他們沒有參與課輔學校的原因確保體育班學生在受教權及學習效能中清楚掌握提升整體教育品質"},{"start":10783.048,"end":10811.02,"text":"第四、三、二的部分我想這個運動成績優良的學生他們分發的人數從111年的4000多人下降到112年的3800多人我想這也會影響到學生參與體育的一個意願因為如果說這個分發的人數或者是錄取的人數減少我在想可能這個削弱體育人才的一個培養的部分可能還是需要更明確的一個就是"},{"start":10812.312,"end":10812.532,"text":"第4、3、6部份"},{"start":10834.878,"end":10838.06,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":10850.965,"end":10871.775,"text":"全國特教適應體育的一個運動會而且要推動融合體育的相關的一些活動但是就像我剛剛說的由於學生的年紀增長尤其是屆齡所謂的青春期應該要更加的鼓勵他們去參與類似這樣的一個比賽但是在這個各縣市其實在這個活動的"},{"start":10872.555,"end":10892.253,"text":"比賽的這個機率其實是逐步在降低,整體的比例仍然低於4成,這個未來是不是可以加強相關政策的一個推動跟資源上的一個分配,也鼓勵這些特教的學生能夠多參與這些體育的競賽,那這個部分我沒有特別堅持,等一下可以整個全部一起並並動來做處理。"},{"start":10896.028,"end":10900.871,"text":"陳佩玉委員體育班長期不當對待體罰問題其實體育署在相關事情當中有一個叫做高級中等以下學校體育班的設立辦法第23條裡面的競賽成績條款"},{"start":10920.305,"end":10941.324,"text":"這個條款其實長年以來成為專任的教練對於現場的孩子們合理過度化訓練的幫兇那這件事情我認為體育署不管是修相關的辦法或者是有相關的行政措施其實都可以讓這件事情遠離體育班的現場也就是它有辦法做脫鉤那這件事情我們希望體育署等一下給我們積極的回應喔"},{"start":10943.386,"end":10953.755,"text":"第二是體育班成績比對系統我們談過很多次了其實體育署每年花大概八千萬的部分為現場的體育選手做相關的課業輔導可是到底現場的KPI的狀況呢我們沒有看到或是相關的配套跟調閱"},{"start":10960.24,"end":10960.9,"text":"附設醫院作業基金、教附設醫院作業基金、教附設醫院作業基金、教"},{"start":10977.067,"end":10984.533,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立"},{"start":10994.381,"end":11013.02,"text":"各級學校專任運動教練的聘任管理辦法目前我們收到的澄清是臺體大教練升級的問題那體育署的說法是說因為地方政府會因為預算的問題不給教練升等可是大專院校的部分我們認為這樣做其實是有疑義的我們希望體育署在相關救濟機制還有提供專業運動教練穩定升遷設計的問題要有更積極的行政措施"},{"start":11017.524,"end":11032.615,"text":"接下來還有關於現任體育班的仿試其實仿試當然可以確保孩子們在學校現場所受到的對待是不是合理合法的可是目前的很多仿試制度我們看到都只是行李如一不管是孩子們受到的超時訓練或者是不當的對待"},{"start":11033.536,"end":11059.461,"text":"其實剛非常多委員都提到了如果我們都只有看到很多的書面資料但孩子們現場的問題都沒有被解決體育班的孩子一再成為大人奪牌的工具這件事情就算有再多的方式我們都難以想像他會如何改變更變得更好那這件事情如果我們現在體育署還沒有辦法積極的處理其實之後被丟到運動部我不知道這些孩子們狀況會更變得多麼可怕所以我還是要積極的提出呼應其實我剛講這些問題都已經多次跟體育署溝通"},{"start":11062.182,"end":11080.715,"text":"接下來還有HBL今年高中籃球聯賽的分配門票是3200張可是到了UBA大專籃球聯賽卻只剩下1500張體育署的說法是尊重主辦單位可是我們認為這件事情不應該被大專體總把持體育署身為主辦單位而且補助相關預算應該更有自己的主體性"},{"start":11081.997,"end":11099.618,"text":"第6學生聯賽參賽帶隊教練要有合格教練證這確實是一個好的政策可是在沒有相關配套跟時間執行的空間彈性之前其實我們看到現場出現一個很荒謬的狀況很多學校的球隊為了去打球他們就要去"},{"start":11100.859,"end":11108.361,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":11125.825,"end":11142.776,"text":"那接下來還有就是中學足球聯賽今年相關爭議的判決跟裁判長介入現場的指揮其實有非常多的陳情可是目前我們看到體育署的報告只有全盤接受中學體總的說法甚至把相關的過錯放到最後轉嫁到學生身上"},{"start":11143.596,"end":11159.424,"text":"甚至在報告檢討書裡面還說要強化對學生的罰則我認為我們體育組的現場一再出現這種大七小的狀況真的是非常的可惡所以我還是要積極的強調雖然今天是審預算可是因為很多事情都還是沒有進度所以我們非常痛心還是要一再提出來"},{"start":11160.851,"end":11188.056,"text":"還有其實體育署每年補助非常多主辦相關賽事可是一旦有賽事就會有相關社群媒體需要要求主辦單位去做而這些主辦單位在經營相關社群媒體的時候會不會把這個當成明明是公器因為他拿政府單位的錢做相關社群媒體可是他可能又拿去做自己公司的運用甚至上面可能有大量沒有被授權的兒少照片那我相信體育署一定都有相關資料可是完全都沒有進一步去改善要求相關廠商必須要尊重兒少的"},{"start":11190.837,"end":11214.358,"text":"全域還有相關照片可以使用的全域空間都沒有討論到那接下來還有關於社區運動的部分我們從一上任就一直發現足協還有社區聯賽的問題那可是體育局的態度一整年下來其實都沒有積極的改進那甚至前瞻計畫的場地都只能變成學校的練習場我不知道未來成立運動部之後我們社區運動的場地到底要從何而來那如果"},{"start":11214.818,"end":11244.601,"text":"大家不再在意社區推廣的運動那我相信到了運動部之後還是有更多資源值會讓更多我們現場體育選手變成奪牌的操控對象那接下來呢其實各級學校這幾年非常多運動團隊用各種名義對學生不當的收費甚至跟學生的家長簽訂營養金的協議規避不得簽訂合約的原則用高額的違約金綁架而上選手的狀況到現在依然存在我想體育署非常清楚我們還是希望聽到進一步的"},{"start":11244.721,"end":11247.582,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":11265.171,"end":11288.759,"text":"家長還有教練大家不斷的吵來吵去那到底法律的角度我們到底可以怎麼做相關的調查機制相關惡意挖角處罰機制或者是要協助學生離開不友善環境的機制我們認為都一併要配套來討論那這個部分我的動靜可以參考其他委員並懂但是我想我提出這麼多問題還是希望體育署正面積極的回應好以上謝謝好謝謝再來是吳佩儀委員"},{"start":11290.72,"end":11314.316,"text":"好這一幕是體育教育推展那我有400第420號序號的提案那過去在臺北市我們是長期在支持基層體育學校體育所以其實也非常清楚就算是像臺北市裁員相對充足但臺北市政府體育局其實在學校體育上面其實資源也是很需要中央幫忙的那像我們萬華的東元國小是少磅的"},{"start":11316.397,"end":11334.834,"text":"重點學校明年度我們有舉辦一個全國錦標賽感謝體育署有支持我們來進行賽事的轉播因為像這個費用就非常的高那我這個提案主要是針對於學校裡面的運動防護員我們體育署過去10年來有在做的是我們來支持高中"},{"start":11335.475,"end":11362.674,"text":"聘用防護員高中防護員再來支援附近的中小學循回支持但是以去年度因為我一直跟體育署講這個資源都不夠因為像是我們一個以萬華東元國小為例光是一個學校它其實防護的需求就很高了所以我看體育署在今年度編列的預算是1.5億那麼年度增加到2億"},{"start":11363.655,"end":11364.055,"text":"議員提供教育提供教育提供"},{"start":11383.604,"end":11403.812,"text":"另外是除了體育班這一軌以外關於社區體育我們是不是能夠來可以一起合併來規劃增加這個支持我希望未來在運動部的規劃裡面要把它納入那體育署已經跟我有做初步的討論那預算上面我確實是有需要的所以這樣我就改成主決議謝謝好謝謝那議員執委員你的案子要不要講"},{"start":11411.474,"end":11422.861,"text":"四百三十三案關心游泳教學新北市推廣游泳教學比例偏低幾個原因偏鄉學校離游泳池實在太遠"},{"start":11426.403,"end":11450.065,"text":"他如果裡面沒有游泳池然後又離運動中心比較遠的話他們可能要排一整天的課去上那體育署現在的做法是補助門票嘛游泳池門票之類的那其實這樣的做法很多學校還是沒有辦法完成啦所以我覺得你訂這個既然大家都認為說游泳教育很重要我覺得就不能擺爛啦看到這樣的數字衛生師比例接近五成"},{"start":11450.706,"end":11476.378,"text":"那如果體育署沒有提出任何的改進的做法的話那這個預算實在是大家很難支持下去啦所以這邊就先凍結20%希望體育署可以針對就為什麼游泳教學一直沒有辦法推動跟落實的原因先把它列出來然後找到解決的方案因為你們現在目前的做法就是行不通只補助門票就是行不通所以要說明清楚才解凍 謝謝"},{"start":11477.756,"end":11503.013,"text":"好 謝謝林倩琦委員有案子要不要講好 謝謝張偉和各位同仁我這邊的案是414案好 那裡面的主旨有幾項一個是原住民的人才培育然後第二個是原鄉偏鄉的人才流失那第三個部分是水域相關的運動"},{"start":11507.556,"end":11531.145,"text":"最後一個是我們全民的體育教育第一個部分就是原住民的區塊當然業務單位這邊有來說明目前列的這幾種是可以彈性變動的但是我們也知道在今年的奧運跟十二強經典賽我們可以看出原住民在團體運動的這個區塊其實也已經有一些成績"},{"start":11532.545,"end":11557.507,"text":"我們先不管是產業或者是在全民運動的一個推廣上但是就目前為止原住民在個人的項目跟團體的項目都有相當成績的表現如果體育署選的這十樣要精進的話我是認為在114年就目前已有表現的而且潛力具足的就應該要列進去"},{"start":11557.867,"end":11560.329,"text":"第2、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":11587.967,"end":11588.588,"text":"原鄉、偏鄉、學校、病校"},{"start":11606.988,"end":11614.352,"text":"委員會主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":11630.162,"end":11630.362,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11661.383,"end":11664.546,"text":"第三、水域活動及水域運動台灣是四面環海水域應該是全世界的強項"},{"start":11676.778,"end":11690.575,"text":"那我想這個運動這個體育署應該也知道我們在這個水域的強項大概離我們的目標值應該很遠很遠所以我這邊要提出來幾個問題剛才有一些委員其實提到這個"},{"start":11691.997,"end":11719.513,"text":"游泳的教學、水域的安全應該體育署目前在水域的部分大部分都是在學校空間裡面的如果有游泳池沒有游泳池可能就到外面的游泳池用門票的方式但是這都還是在一個保護的空間在保護的空間裡面就已經有很多教練不足的問題現場人員困難的問題更遑論開放性的水域開放性的水域會碰到的問題第一個是當然"},{"start":11721.954,"end":11746.551,"text":"在我剛才講的室內或者是保護性的場域當中的設備玩不玩備這個是體育署可以做的但是開放水域你們怎麼去處理你們不能都說推給這個是其他部會那開放性的水域我相信體育署也一定有責任嘛因為太多的項目他就在開放水域比賽的嘛那這個跟你們"},{"start":11747.352,"end":11765.042,"text":"一定有直接關係如果我講的基礎的問題沒辦法解決那這個開放區隨意的活動都不可能再繼續下去嘛所以我這邊要特別提出來那另外我有談到那如果在比賽項目裡面有關於有載體的、有器具的怎麼去處理載體跟器具比如說船"},{"start":11766.323,"end":11766.783,"text":"獎勵教育部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":11792.208,"end":11797.675,"text":"要不然我當然也可以往後面再做一個補充,後面的是非常具體的,原住民的部分我先把幾個很直接的問題點出來,好,謝謝。謝謝,那再來洪孟楷委員。"},{"start":11809.824,"end":11824.115,"text":"好 各位謝謝我們今天是體育署在第一幕的一個部分本期有兩個案419我們要麻煩看一下主要也是學校運動活動的教學發展那其中"},{"start":11825.171,"end":11839.839,"text":"因為相關的一個預算都跟這個上個年度相同所以說等一下特別請這個署長來說明一下有沒有什麼可以加強的地方不是說這個照本宣科但另外一個部分對另外一個部分我要特別提一下因為剛剛我們有委員有講到"},{"start":11840.619,"end":11862.899,"text":"今年HBL高中籃球聯賽跟以往最大的不同我想署長可能也了解因為這是我們地方上很多的家長也是抱怨連連今年預賽特別從原本北部的一個部分移設到彰化"},{"start":11866.563,"end":11892.755,"text":"12強的比賽從原本的高雄移至到屏東書長你這樣看好像你不是很掌握的狀況來我來講一下說當初原本這都是之前行之有年都在12強的比賽尤其12強的副賽男子女子的副賽都是在高雄舉辦但今年特別講說要平衡各縣市的基層籃球發展所以前進國進之南屏東"},{"start":11894.156,"end":11907.39,"text":"平衡籃球發展我沒有意見我也認為是說應該要平衡籃球發展但是這一次的草率的動作不是說只是去打一場球12強的球隊去一個縣市打球然後就沒了"},{"start":11908.58,"end":11929.94,"text":"飯店、住宿相關的交通有沒有配套我們參與12強的本席剛好我的高中選區裡面男子高中跟女子高中都有進入12強他們家長會也好或是教練也好真的是抱怨連連以往在高雄確實他的住宿環境條件"},{"start":11931.311,"end":11935.075,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":11954.244,"end":11958.166,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":11970.433,"end":11988.81,"text":"無預警的就從高雄變成是到屏東然後沒有任何的一個配套措施那苦的就是這些球員就是這些家長就是這些教練那甚至有些啦啦隊還想要去參與的他也要找飯店啊也要找住宿啊我覺得在這個部分我真的特別因為"},{"start":11990.069,"end":12006.056,"text":"教練家長真的跟我們反映的太多那我們也只能是說好我們一定會讓體育署知道我也想聽聽看體育署當初同意HBL這樣子做主要的用意是什麼那沒有預想到移動的這些問題嗎那另外428案"},{"start":12008.936,"end":12029.712,"text":"游泳的一個項目的一個部分我也一樣看到就是說部分縣市的高中以下的學校其實未實施游泳教學的比例超過50%那當然有一些學校他可能就沒有游泳池或是相關的一個場域那但是還有其他的部分我們怎麼樣來提升學生的游泳能力那以及自救能力啊"},{"start":12030.132,"end":12053.709,"text":"剛剛我聽到委員有發言講是說會不會游泳跟能不能自救以及跟溺水的原因可能不盡然相等這一點我同意因為有一些研究確實如此有人講說越膽大的人反而他容易去比較危險的地方那反而是旱鴨子他不可能下水所以他就比較不容易發生這樣旱事但發生旱事在我這邊的一個統計的狀況看起來確實是事實"},{"start":12057.071,"end":12079.68,"text":"就還是有國小有25人國中有19人高中只有30人那我們能夠怎麼樣來督促怎麼樣來預防怎麼樣來教導我想學生的自救能力尤其臺灣我們常講說四面都環海照理講我們發展水上活動或說發展相關的游泳的能力應該是要強的但過往我們也許"},{"start":12080.64,"end":12104.043,"text":"受限場地、受限於這相關的一個教練等等設施等等我們沒有辦法說水上活動那麼的親近但我也希望是說在體育署推廣加強學校體育運動以及教學發展的部分真的要把這裡正在加強以上這兩案 謝謝好 謝謝那那個是不是請國教署鎮署長回應體育署對不起 體育署"},{"start":12106.52,"end":12128.942,"text":"謝謝早委還有各位謝謝各位委員那因為蠻多的問題大概是蠻雷同的我就針對不同類型的我就一起來做一些說明那我從前面我就按照提案號這邊來看就林倩琪委員關心的部分那原住民的人才培育的名額"},{"start":12129.682,"end":12142.337,"text":"原則部分我們今年是有增加10位那我們從114年我們會針對輕艇、划船在全中運前6名的部分為原則來做一個增加這個項目這個運動種類來培育"},{"start":12144.48,"end":12162.078,"text":"那在挖角的部分我們基本上目前是請就國中高中的部分我們是請高中體總這邊來設定一個審查的委員會當然我們有一些審查的標準比方說如果今天確實阿爸媽因為工作因素搬家這部分我們當然就會容許他就不會有所謂的"},{"start":12162.805,"end":12187.29,"text":"要求要一年的就讀才可以參賽規定等等這部分我們也是在監察院的監督之下成立這樣一個委員會來做一個審查的機制當然我們從今年年中開始開放比較沒有升學相關的這個賽事在國小還有國中軟式棒球等等這些跟升學比較無關的我們就解禁"},{"start":12187.91,"end":12190.233,"text":"基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業"},{"start":12207.911,"end":12212.777,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":12223.511,"end":12248.09,"text":"究讀一年以上才能夠參賽這個事情我們也是在經歷這麼多年來我們第一次先稍微放寬我們看看情況第三個是開放水域的部分牽涉到當然是一個地區還有一些下水碼頭船隻的置放空間等等目前是已經打算委託一位大學來做一個不完善整個國土的盤點"},{"start":12249.926,"end":12250.186,"text":"議員委員提到的"},{"start":12275.596,"end":12293.831,"text":"基層專業教練的不私任教練的部分其實我在臺中的棒球這個案子出來的時候我就找學校組的組長來討論到底我們整個跟國教署的合作整個的機制下看起來法都有但是到底哪裡有漏洞我整個把它找"},{"start":12294.651,"end":12322.894,"text":"後來我們細部去看我們想這次以臺中為例最主要的問題當然是學校他們本身因為人員一直在替換他忘記去每年逐年去做一個查詢其實我們不適任系統不適任教室系統可以查到他所有這個人這個教練他的過去所有相關的刑案的這些的記錄是查得到的但是他沒去查所以我們現在已經發文要求我們會發文要求各個學校"},{"start":12323.675,"end":12339.632,"text":"不管你是要聘編制內或編制外或社團等等你一樣應該有一個契約那這個契約用途是什麼就是契約第一個我們提醒我們的承辦人員不管你怎麼換人他看到這個契約他會裡面會寫說你要去"},{"start":12341.081,"end":12368.157,"text":"這個教練他要去幫他查他的過去不適應教室這個資料庫他有沒有過去的這樣子一個狀況比如說猥褻啦或是性騷等等這個狀況再來我們要求這個教練要寫一個切結書他同意學校來做同意查詢不適應教室等等的系統所以這部分算是補一個破段我們希望接住這樣子一個狀況所以這部分我們會持續加強那另外一方面我們在競技組的部分的一些教練證"},{"start":12369.618,"end":12395.966,"text":"這幾年其實有在做大規模的一個清查但是我們有一個問題就是舊制度的教練他們很多他們的身份資料是缺乏的那我們剛好明年會是所有證照他如果沒有做完足夠的回流教育他會全部失效那也藉由這樣的一個制度回流教育我們去補齊他所有的身份證讓我們可以做更深入的全面的清查"},{"start":12397.113,"end":12419.482,"text":"所以我們承認的確有一些漏洞在那這部分我們在持續在改善當中再來是萬維委員比較關心到的這個全中運、全大運的部分當然我們在去年發生勘台電線走火在那個田徑賽事的"},{"start":12421.668,"end":12425.79,"text":"中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":12448.317,"end":12475.64,"text":"我們在第一次發生類似食物中毒的時候我們其實有趕快聯繫臺中市府特別臺中市的副市長這邊也起一個團隊包括觀光局還有運動局等等一起合作來查詢原因後來發現找到是廚師本身有諾羅病毒所以才造成這些學生他們的食物受到感染那這個部分當時也是有做第一時間的一個反應"},{"start":12477.503,"end":12496.801,"text":"那我們在游泳池的部分,游泳池的部分我們其實沒錯我們最大的困難其實就是我們全國的游泳設施的確在各個學校其實真的普遍不足那這個當然牽涉到經費去預注去蓋游泳池第二個在多年前立法院其實有一個"},{"start":12498.261,"end":12514.438,"text":"應該是附帶決議吧就禁止中央政府在偵編預算來蓋游泳池所以這部分我們未來我也請跟各位委員一起合力來協助是不是這部分也去做相關的討論再優化那我們今年當然在"},{"start":12515.739,"end":12540.917,"text":"自救、教學、水域安全、游泳等等我們有爭辯的疑義我們現在是這樣我們是自救很多學校因為偏鄉或偏遠地方他必須要調整他的課程就回應剛剛葉元之委員提的其實葉元之委員提的是對的因為的確很多為了要去上這個自救課程或是游泳課程他必須要把一整個下午的課去合併那這牽涉到交通費及課程的"},{"start":12541.863,"end":12542.003,"text":"議事委員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會"},{"start":12565.823,"end":12586.268,"text":"參賽的部分其實學校有部分的南部學校也是有想說是不是要不要每次都在偏北部、中部是不是有機會到南部去那我想每個縣市的學校當然有不同的一個觀點那我們其實都有補他們的交通費、住宿費的補助不過至於可能屏東的住宿比較不好找這部分我們會來會請"},{"start":12587.408,"end":12611.615,"text":"高中體育總會列入考量、飯店數量的部分。其實我們這次還有遷就到場地,因為很多的適合辦比賽的籃球館的場地都不好租借,所以這部分請各位經委員能夠見諒。那防務員的部分,這部分我們持續都是由體育署這邊每年來編金費,那今年有增加5000萬主要也是因為這些的防務員他已經逐年有進行,我們從去年開始,"},{"start":12612.535,"end":12634.533,"text":"我們開始讓他們可以有進行這樣的一個制度不是說永遠都是一樣的薪水那因此我們必須要調整他的預算那這部分其實地方真的必須要負起一些責任在國小國中應該要一起那全部靠體育署其實我覺得我們經費在增加部分可能真的趕不上但我們這部分在未來運動部的部分我們會努力去盡可能去把它編組來支持喔"},{"start":12636.718,"end":12665.809,"text":"那在陳培毅委員的部分陳培毅委員這部分比較多的議案我一個一個來提那在兒少的部分我們基本上我們就剛剛提的除了我們用契約的方式之外我們接下來希望推兒少的一個兒少證的部分我們現在預期在運動部成立兩年之內的目標來做一個修法來把這個兒少證的部分把它處理來成立讓我們的這個社區特別是校外的部分能夠更加的保障"},{"start":12666.389,"end":12692.67,"text":"那我們的體育班的部分的客服我們當然我們昨天我們也有發新聞稿特別去糾正這些HBL的球隊在學期中出國去比賽我想客服的部分增加訪視的強度那我們現在已經有講我已經有特別講如果再這樣下去我們基本上我們會加強這個訪視我們會砍他的補助一到五年最嚴重五年不宜補助那在專任教練他的"},{"start":12697.108,"end":12721.362,"text":"中級教練有初級教練薪資的聘用牽涉到縣市的部分但是我們會從全國國立學校先做起這部分我們會持續跟地方溝通HBL門票部分也是持續跟大陸來溝通目前跟各大學各隊討論票數應該是OK的"},{"start":12724.107,"end":12734.815,"text":"那在教練的部分如果有租用證照的部分因為我們明年我們最近有推行那個回流教育那有些教練的確比較懶得去上課那這部分我們會加強來取締"},{"start":12738.548,"end":12740.269,"text":"社區設施設施設施設施設施設施設施設施設施設施設施設施"},{"start":12771.619,"end":12788.994,"text":"我想應該大部分都有涵蓋到,如果有遺漏的話再請委員這邊來提醒,謝謝。好,謝謝鄭署長。我想我們不滿意我們就直接用預算凍結之後再溝通,不滿意都可以不要解凍。好,那第一幕有沒有委員提議要凍多少?那個陳佩儀委員。"},{"start":12796.496,"end":12807.052,"text":"因為剛剛有人來問我,我有一個案子,那個案子寫得很多,可是那個是幫吳立華委員提案,那如果就我自己提的就是421的部分,我建議是不是1000萬,好,謝謝。"},{"start":12809.862,"end":12828.043,"text":"陳培委員提議這邊第一幕一千萬大家並動我想去年才動一百萬那今年其實今年好不容易要成立運動部那個公務預算我常年在過去當立委都希望公務預算能夠增加那個基金預算不要被基金預算壓"},{"start":12829.484,"end":12842.859,"text":"當然還有很多需要檢討,剛才陳佩玉委員還有很多委員提到體育班的事情,其實我個人也很反對國中小就設體育班,但是這個制度已經行之已久,而且運動體育班裡面有很多是屬於那個"},{"start":12844.261,"end":12846.322,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":12862.753,"end":12863.775,"text":"林建啟委員、柯志恩委員"},{"start":12877.126,"end":12899.208,"text":"謝謝昭偉我這邊提出來的幾個問題其實我也很認同昭偉就是說我們就用動的方式來做處理那如果能夠有比較好的一個方案那我們就解動就這麼簡單那其實我本來提的是1%但是我有同意那個我就附和剛才陳委員這邊提的一千不過分真的一千不過分"},{"start":12899.949,"end":12900.189,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":12919.679,"end":12920.559,"text":"教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":12943.751,"end":12964.443,"text":"國立的學校我們先做起,縣市我們會去督促他們至於每個學校要三個教練部分,這部分我們也是從國立開始那國教署這部分我們會跟他們溝通那公價派帶的部分,這部分牽涉到地方他們的經費那我們會,也是這個部分真的只能要求他們,但是他們"},{"start":12965.348,"end":12980.166,"text":"那你的考核標準全國一致,這應該是很可以嗎?你要跟地方溝通,你要跟地方溝通,其實地方只要你們出了一個標準過來,大家都很願意來做一個配合好不好?那你要多久?可以,你要多久?我們半年的時間好不好?"},{"start":12982.088,"end":12994.039,"text":"三個月三個月三個月時間這樣才可以拿到合理的方式三個月就用數字我可以用組決議但是你要三個月好不好寫一個組決議好不好體育署寫個組決議那個01金委員要提議這樣你提幾案我想這一幕因為去年去年動100"},{"start":13005.709,"end":13032.165,"text":"那去年當然去年的那個預算數比較低去年是38億多今年是44億可是去年38億多動100因為這是學校教育大部分都是真的是撥給縣市政府的然後支持學校體育的所以我想大家都很尊重學校體育而且學校體育三級體育也是全部體育的根本所以我是不是在懇切的而且我們今年達到世界冠軍12強"},{"start":13033.946,"end":13038.428,"text":"教育部主管12屆第12會期教育部主管12屆第12會期教育部主管12屆第12會期教育部主管12屆第12會期教育部主管12屆第12會期"},{"start":13056.475,"end":13063.186,"text":"就按照去年這樣動100這樣好不好如果可以的話大家討論看看討論看看我們就直接就數字討論羅廷輝委員"},{"start":13068.045,"end":13091.866,"text":"可以支持啦動10萬我都沒有意見但前提是你要把這一個講清楚說明白所以你剛剛跟科委員講完了我們比較能夠接受就改組決議嘛所以並不會說是鐵板一塊啦那目前剛剛回應了教練這部分那游泳池游泳的這個部分我們實際還是看到沒辦法有更具體的做法讓這個孩子能夠把他下降"},{"start":13093.167,"end":13114.605,"text":"為學習學校提升學習的孩子那這個部分怎麼辦?你剛剛的回應我覺得可以再更具體我想這部分就是我們逐年來增加編列當然我覺得最重要的是我們會盡可能增加清水池的部分的設備這邊我們會逐年來增加因為的確我們這幾年都有持續在增加也看到效果所以這邊我們持續在做"},{"start":13116.235,"end":13119.036,"text":"主席主席主席主席主席主席主席"},{"start":13139.426,"end":13167.642,"text":"就改組決議嘛先是100萬、1000萬然後張雅玲委員、陳培宇我們就就數字來討論好不好還願意先講一下齁因為剛才那個418案的部分啊署長也講得蠻清楚的齁那那個這一案呢我也改組決議418改組決議那個張雅玲委員、陳培宇委員好那我想因為我的4我是416案齁但是我想這個應該剛剛署長雖然已經有做說明了但是我想補充一下這應該還是要考量國立法應該要做一些修正啦齁"},{"start":13168.562,"end":13196.14,"text":"那這個我的430案因為剛剛我想這可以改組決議那我自己也想說因為還是因為今年我們的一些基層的運動表這次的今年的一些表現其實也帶動了很多基層那很多人都想要投入運動領域這個領域這樣很多的運動的項目都有很多的家長跟孩子去關心所以我在想我們這部分是不是就可以動少一點大概就是兩百萬這樣子好 那個張雅玲主張兩百萬"},{"start":13197.861,"end":13220.836,"text":"陳佩瑜、林建啟我們就敲定了謝謝主席我要講的是我尊重大家最後數字的意見不過我要提醒的就是我當然認同給孩子們的部分我們不要摳可是在我自己的提案大家可以細看其實我前三案都跟現場的議題沒有關係比較是現場的困境其實需要我們大人幫忙數字的部分我尊重大家謝謝林建啟委員我們最後一個"},{"start":13221.916,"end":13242.414,"text":"謝謝張偉還有各位同仁我提出來的問題都是很具體的那不好意思因為在這整年的過程當中那個開放性水域其實封閉性水域大家已經講得很清楚所以我就不再贅述開放性水域你如果沒有給我一個很確切的期程然後怎麼去處理"},{"start":13244.11,"end":13268.044,"text":"我至少堅持那一千萬我本來是提1%然後剛才陳委員的那個額度我覺得其實大家談的問題我都很認同跟接受他談的額度我可以接受可是如果還有一件事情不好意思召委那個如果循以往的慣例你們就循以往的預算就好了那我們就不用今天在這邊審這些新的東西或新的預算或提高的預算"},{"start":13270.067,"end":13289.787,"text":"還有講到表現好我更關心的一點是對奧運是最後的結果大家都期待往這個左右的方向但是你們如果只拿奧運的成績來跟我們說現在全民的體育有多好我不盡然相信像我剛才講的偏鄉或原鄉人才的流失我想這一年我也反映很多了在座的各位應該都知道"},{"start":13290.627,"end":13306.556,"text":"這不是第一今年我沒有看到成果我也不認為在一年內你們就能夠處理跟解決這些東西但是期程跟方式我也沒有聽到一個很支持的結果所以那如果這樣那我是不是要提高那我們再來談風地水域都還沒處理好開放水給他們一點時間"},{"start":13307.737,"end":13325.896,"text":"報告召委其實我們在開放水域我們從今年開始因為部長商人特別支持希望我們在做開放水域這部分所以我們其實在帆船、輕艇這部分的划船我們其實都已經在設施的部分在強化在加強甚至船隻的購買等等以及課程我們現在也請他們聘外籍教練這部分我們都持續在進行當中"},{"start":13326.937,"end":13327.157,"text":"吳佩宇委員舉手"},{"start":13341.954,"end":13368.148,"text":"因為因為是學校體育那原先我有凍結那剛剛有說明之後我改成主決議因為大部分都是補助給地方政府所以我就支持委員是希望可以按照原列數啦那剛剛另一級委員有說凍結100萬我就支持另一級委員凍結100萬那也希望說體育署就可以來多加說明因為剛剛好幾位都是因為你們之前說明可能不夠充足齁再說明清楚一點那大家其實都是絕對都是支持學校體育基層體育的預算的謝謝好謝謝齁"},{"start":13369.989,"end":13388.123,"text":"好那我來打個原廠啦那基本上有些委員說1000萬啦齁那大家廣泛討論喔我覺得之前是38億現在增加到44億喔預算一直在增加那我們的監督都是利益良善希望好還要更好愛之深則知切所以最後我想是不是我們就500萬"},{"start":13390.304,"end":13418.062,"text":"讓這件事情凍結那剛剛有人喊到一千嘛我想這個部分他們喊一千的已經改一百了我聽委員我已經改囉欠期委員這邊你要去協助安排嘛那我想欠期委員他這邊喊一千那我想打個原場欠期委員也是希望這件事情能夠有所改善那五百萬的部分凍結後續讓我們能夠追蹤不管是三個月有沒有達成我們的這個體育老師的專案的部分"},{"start":13419.801,"end":13438.762,"text":"萬美玲委員發言 張雅玲體育預算不夠我們認同今年體育署也有很好的表現這個我們也予以肯定不過我想今天在整個預算所有委員提出來的案子當中還是有很多"},{"start":13439.162,"end":13447.291,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":13462.762,"end":13478.221,"text":"我想了解一下就是說因為我們一下子從去年的一百萬變成五百萬到底到廷運署啦你們現場啦OK嗎OK好好好廷運署沒有市長你拿麥克風好嗎五百你OK嗎好啦我想齁大家都是利益良善啦齁"},{"start":13478.561,"end":13485.023,"text":"都希望監督追蹤那我們未來也會持續進進那凍結500萬應該可以接受那我們就凍結500萬後書面報告後解凍那我們唸一下改成主決議的312、418、420、423、427、430還有剛剛410照列"},{"start":13502.451,"end":13509.749,"text":"章偉我是4、2、4改組決議喔4、2、4也改組決議組決議可以用4啦章偉不好意思那如果是1000的話可以保留嗎"},{"start":13511.579,"end":13519.462,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":13537.329,"end":13556.271,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":13559.412,"end":13579.458,"text":"每一個委員在這邊其實都是關心各個領域發展那我們都希望是臺灣的運動越來越好啦這一點是自始至終我們都無庸置疑的地方那建籍委員他提的也不是沒有道理因為我知道說以在場來講如果說以水上運動發展的話建籍委員就算是在這個領域"},{"start":13580.618,"end":13601.688,"text":"不管是過去、現在、未來、經營、付出很多的所以,經濟委員他有提出本來是凍結一趴嘛一趴,44億的一趴是4000萬那即便是一趴,我們有99趴都是讓體育署可以好好的來運用,好好的來做"},{"start":13604.295,"end":13630.609,"text":"99%都是讓大家好好來做而且這一%並不是說要刪除並不是要減劣是希望能夠提供相關報告那昭緯我也拜託不是說這個話給如果說委員講的真的有道理比例來說的話我們應該還是要聽一下委員的建議那我折衷一下我還沒有講喔我折衷一下建基委員要不要也講一下是說那你有沒有特別針對哪個事項因為我其實剛剛也"},{"start":13632.992,"end":13643.263,"text":"我知道就是說第一幕裡面有沒有針對哪一個部分是你比較希望體育署一定要給你因為我就說嘛我們現在一整幕的凍結啊"},{"start":13645.148,"end":13663.893,"text":"一整末凍結啊我如果說我關心的是HBL剛剛署長有回答所以說我可以接受我請署長這邊一定要加強就是說未來住宿不是說只考慮場地的部分你球員的移動、教練的移動、啦啦隊移動這邊都要考慮進去嘛那我就可以來"},{"start":13665.373,"end":13692.674,"text":"接受他的理由可是現在建籍委員講法是說你那一幕裡面有沒有哪一個科目是你比較針對性的一個部分你比較希望能夠來做凍結保留的我覺得這樣子會比較符合說我們希望能夠督促的方向否則的話你說整個第一幕如果說他其他的部分寫得好但是你水上部分這邊沒有寫好那你反而是水上的部分去影響到其他幕我覺得這樣子可能也不是你當初的一個本意"},{"start":13693.274,"end":13703.919,"text":"所以說是不是讓倩姐委員這邊來想一下是說她的一個想法那還有體育署這邊五百萬你們其實可以接受一千萬不能接受差五百萬但是你的總預算是44億你地目是44億"},{"start":13712.273,"end":13729.704,"text":"沒有錯是給學校我就說我們都一直用在這邊但是你要告訴我是說為什麼那500萬你就沒有辦法用你自愛難行之處在哪裡不是一句說給學校然後就當然給學校這個大帽子扣下來每一個人都承擔不起啊那我現在只是很核心的問題問你有44億500萬凍結你可以做事結果再多500萬變1000萬凍結的時候你都說你沒有辦法做事了這理由是什麼"},{"start":13739.175,"end":13760.894,"text":"你這樣說真的無人說不通啦好不好來給署長再說明一下那我這邊還是因為我想這個部分也不要浪費大家時間啦齁林建啟委員的部分我們會持續來努力啦我們今年我已經給台南、南投、宜蘭都很多的船隻還有健身器材都是給水域的那我們持續在努力啦齁"},{"start":13761.814,"end":13764.397,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":13775.399,"end":13777.921,"text":"一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查"},{"start":13802.563,"end":13809.549,"text":"第二幕由12345由五個案子由委員發言第441案已改成主決議"},{"start":13813.868,"end":13825.532,"text":"443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤案443撤"},{"start":13842.557,"end":13868.437,"text":"好,那440待會兒署長說明齁那那個其他委員一人之謂你這邊沒有案子欸你要一起說,好那個洪孟楷委員先他有案子好,OK第二幕而已第二幕謝謝周偉及各位委員我是439案那439案其實有看到說過往體育署當然我們現在要升格運動部那個那一天我記得運動部我們答詢的時候大概講說可能之後正式員額要兩三百人喔"},{"start":13869.998,"end":13889.428,"text":"三、四百人可是在現在體育署的一個部分其實法定人數都還沒有編滿法定人數一直沒有禁用夠我們體育署比台北市政府體育局的正式員額人還少比新北市政府體育局的正式員額人還少"},{"start":13890.834,"end":13903.579,"text":"那我們那時候就一直講說體育署其實應該加強量的因為我們管的是全國的一個體育方向可是你在我歷次幾年度下來你的正式法定人數156但是你其實你都沒有編組156人都沒有禁用滿"},{"start":13906.76,"end":13915.222,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":13930.285,"end":13948.033,"text":"以現在的這個方向來講是2025年希望能夠運動部正式的掛牌那一次要變成是400人欸你100多人都沒有辦法金融滿然後就之後400人我的專業人員在哪裡我的人才在哪裡我覺得這個部分才是我們所擔憂的以上謝謝"},{"start":13950.12,"end":13951.923,"text":"第二幕如果沒有委員要發言的話"},{"start":13963.66,"end":13982.535,"text":"提議書政署長謝謝委員指教那我從439案紅委員的部分我想這部分是編制表我們當然是總數我們是符合我們是預算員的總數符合行政院的組織調整源而配置的所謂保留5%的空間的規定所以這部分是我們被分配到的"},{"start":13983.275,"end":14006.622,"text":"當然用勞務承攬能力的部分占了主要是有辦公廳設、清潔、保全、電機、消防、自訓人員的部分這邊我們會持續努力因為明年如果真的運動部組織法二三讀如果過了我們當然會急起直追包括整個考試、考選部等等我們跨部會來做這部分的原理而補充再來外務委員提到了這個"},{"start":14008.422,"end":14008.502,"text":"委員會主席委員會長"},{"start":14025.734,"end":14033.916,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":14052.415,"end":14073.92,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立"},{"start":14081.343,"end":14108.844,"text":"還是預算員額是人數?我們是預算員額總數134人那我請教那過去到現在我們體育署的同仁也很辛苦啊那我們長官們有沒有去跟這個人事總署抱怨一下?前幾年我們有人事總署給我們15個人額啦那也是經過了很多年然後增加了15個人額這不對啊我們過去不是一直講說我們那麼重視我們的運動發展結果行政院人事總署居然對於我們體育署那麼苛刻"},{"start":14110.005,"end":14114.67,"text":"那這樣我要幫體育署報區啊因為這個戳破這個謊言啊以前說什麼很重視我們的體育結果原來是我們的法定原額有但是預算原額都不給啊要人的時候不給人然後結果這個"},{"start":14130.051,"end":14154.826,"text":"那個整個...黃峰改委你是不是用結束還是...如果說這樣的話預算年額那這樣子就不是掌握在你們這身上了那就照練你幫他跟行政院爭取我們在爭取啦我改成主決議好不好這個部分我一定...謝謝因為一定要幫我們體育署講話啦不然這樣子好像真的委屈啊原來是我們人事總署行政院上面就不給人啊"},{"start":14155.796,"end":14155.876,"text":"二、繼續審查"},{"start":14172.036,"end":14191.302,"text":"四四零代會資料給萬委員之後改組決議第二幕預算就照列第439案、440案、441案改成組決議然後443案撤案主席宣布我們休息到一點半再繼續第三幕休息到一點半"},{"start":14204.804,"end":14206.627,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育局長"},{"start":14215.333,"end":14221.259,"text":"因為預算不一定會在這裏審查,所以他要調到前面嗎?你可以幫我調前面嗎?"},{"start":14241.838,"end":14248.604,"text":"他這一份就是他有行動結婚,他有承諾要做這些事,一個就是有行銷帶動,然後後期承諾未來要運動列入"},{"start":14262.697,"end":14267.961,"text":"我這兩個案是452、465,如果說他可以同意、他可以併列入會議基金的話,我可以併案處理"},{"start":14279.891,"end":14280.552,"text":"臺南醫院嗎?業務都很熟"},{"start":14309.167,"end":14318.211,"text":"最重要就是要他這裡跟他先讓他在這裡做成本,不然他發個文稿,發我文稿,我就發文稿晚上會回林口,我也會去參加我來一起教育"},{"start":14334.377,"end":14362.415,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":14362.495,"end":14381.399,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14389.495,"end":14393.077,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部"},{"start":14415.906,"end":14437.852,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第3會期教育及文化委員會基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫"},{"start":14438.632,"end":14447.621,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第3會期教育及文化委員會基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":14458.439,"end":14468.664,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14480.869,"end":14499.362,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":14511.229,"end":14532.304,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學"},{"start":14535.683,"end":14538.851,"text":"基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立教育部主管"},{"start":14551.877,"end":14564.206,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14583.853,"end":14597.204,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14613.172,"end":14628.998,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":14639.691,"end":14648.539,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":14660.17,"end":14667.076,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14686.613,"end":14706.906,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":14714.291,"end":14734.407,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14745.951,"end":14749.699,"text":"大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14758.078,"end":14774.125,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14778.187,"end":14787.533,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":14805.623,"end":14820.907,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14829.694,"end":14842.722,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第3會期教育及國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":14856.858,"end":14870.663,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14884.733,"end":14896.322,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":14914.745,"end":14929.439,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":14935.76,"end":14946.186,"text":"教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育部教育"},{"start":14969.878,"end":14985.929,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":15000.05,"end":15019.584,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":15031.357,"end":15038.022,"text":"教育大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":15057.043,"end":15072.972,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":15089.855,"end":15112.668,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":15116.084,"end":15131.56,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第13屆第4會期教育及國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":15151.824,"end":15164.894,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":15191.851,"end":15205.614,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":15221.245,"end":15221.506,"text":"都有了。"},{"start":18031.104,"end":18060.575,"text":"好 我們現在繼續這一本34頁的第三幕國家體育建設那我們從陳培宇委員開始可以嗎還是要你要一會就林一金委員林一金委員又從你開始你沒有案子那柯之恩委員你有沒有案子 第三幕那柯之恩委員正在說話那陳培宇委員你有沒有案子沒有案喔那柯之恩委員第三幕"},{"start":18062.978,"end":18064.418,"text":"克珍委員468案我可以改成組決議但是我還是根據我自己所寫的方式這是有關於運動區整體人才培育的計畫"},{"start":18087.845,"end":18108.852,"text":"目前來說你這個自辦執行跟下營區整修的這個過程在這整個階段當中我們都還是在屬於這個招標前置的作業那我們希望這個相關的工程有必要來做一個加強的管控但是這也是體育學來溝通過所以我這一塊我可以把它改成組決議好不好"},{"start":18110.052,"end":18118.554,"text":"四六班471案有471案還是一樣我不堅持凍結100凍結100也還蠻小的好像也沒什麼好不好那我還是強調你們的工程真的是多次流標執行的進度真的是蠻落後的而且你還延展到117年目前修正計畫也都沒有核定然後呢你看我說到目前為止113年7月底你的到119"},{"start":18137.739,"end":18143.786,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":18155.06,"end":18157.201,"text":"事事誓誓誓誓誓誓誓誓誓誓"},{"start":18170.45,"end":18170.47,"text":"獲得獎項獎項"},{"start":18192.003,"end":18215.479,"text":"之前跟部長這邊有提到過但是你把希望寄託在未來的兒童但是畢竟這些人也還存在這些管社也還有但是這成效不彰的6年部裡面的解釋是當時的指標在訂定可能沒有概念但是就算指標訂定沒有概念我們的名次確實是比過去沒有投注那麼多"},{"start":18216.44,"end":18216.52,"text":"協助協助協助協助"},{"start":18230.563,"end":18252.475,"text":"我希望有一個交代而且必須要是能夠支撐你們未來在這個設備經費投注的一個這個論述必須要很清楚然後第二個我還是提醒一下你們有一些目前在做的管社已經送到國發會或者是已經在某些過程當中那現在是預算時節你們不能說這個時候在過程當中但是未來也請你們"},{"start":18256.463,"end":18261.287,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":18280.425,"end":18298.9,"text":"所以一個是交代過去然後跟未來設施目前在進行當中的您必須要有個確認跟實證謝謝好 謝謝再來是陳培委員好 第三幕其實主要是幫那個賴慧雯委員聯署那一併跟其他委員一併那個並動就可以了 謝謝好 郭玉琴委員"},{"start":18301.186,"end":18317.995,"text":"4、5、1、4、6、0、4、6、6"},{"start":18318.095,"end":18324.919,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":18341.589,"end":18363.484,"text":"在460的部分我想這個單項運動協會的內部的治理跟資源的一個分配我們是強調就是在資源分配不均還有選手選拔不夠透明那這個部分也缺乏專業的一個管理其實都會影響到選手的訓練跟比賽的一些問題那這個部分我覺得應該也要再強加的研議"},{"start":18364.284,"end":18383.822,"text":"那這個部分我金額的部分我沒有特別的沒有特別的堅持等一下可以一起來並動處理那再來是第466我想國內的場館能不能夠支持國際性的一個賽事其實是非常非常重要的一件事情那在這個部分的話我想"},{"start":18384.002,"end":18390.747,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":18410.643,"end":18414.525,"text":"中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":18441.584,"end":18463.424,"text":"現在主席我在這一幕的部分第一個案子是第450案450案的這個部分我們這個關於全民運動的推展這個業務那其實我們希望說提供提高我們國民的體質跟生活品質我們也希望透過全民參與運動來減少後續的醫療支出及增進國民的健康"},{"start":18467.668,"end":18490.109,"text":"但是其實根據報導我們的國民的肥胖率是居高不下成人過重及肥胖率達到50.3%那國中生的這個肥胖過重也來到30%高中生也高達28.9%可見就是說我們真的是在這個全民運動的推廣這也是非常的重要"},{"start":18491.309,"end":18496.211,"text":"運動部未來也會成立全民運動署,目標是將經濟運動全民化,讓更多人從事運動,提高運動關注度,進而增進運動產業發展,降低後續醫療費用支出,增進全民健康。"},{"start":18509.875,"end":18522.393,"text":"但是這是一環扣一環的一些相關的政策規劃在目前呢一直都沒有看到體育署針對這個全民運動做出實質的規劃我不希望說未來看到就是我們全民運動署只會給錢只會補助但是沒有相關的規劃"},{"start":18525.678,"end":18547.391,"text":"所以我這個案子我是很堅持要動其實我不一定要動我原來提動的這個金額可以跟其他委員一併處理但是我會希望說體育署這邊可以拿出更多實際上的規劃而不是說我們只補助地方來蓋運動場館覺得這樣就可以增加人口運動人口也不是說給錢辦活動去補助他就能夠吸引更多人來規律運動這個需要說比較縝密的規劃比較實質的規劃那第457案的部分呢"},{"start":18552.987,"end":18554.408,"text":"基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立"},{"start":18568.015,"end":18575.582,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":18586.131,"end":18602.664,"text":"每一次的質詢、每一次的審預算的時候都一定會有委員拿出來關心到底體育署的管理有沒有實質的對自己本身去檢討說可以做些什麼可以用怎樣更具體一點的來做管理"},{"start":18604.125,"end":18628.555,"text":"體育署有很大很大的努力的空間所以這個我也蠻堅持要動的那金額不一定要動到500萬但是可以跟其他委員的案子一併來處理那第467案的部分呢就是關於我們的這個運動設施省基部112年的決算報告有指出我們的場館設施分級調查結果沒有公開那也沒有參考最新國際運動設施的規範來檢討修訂其中有11項機會和"},{"start":18634.277,"end":18659.081,"text":"有機會合格有三項不合格會讓民眾對我們的場館是否是符合國際標準的感到疑惑提署這邊有來說明相關的場館規範有盤點也開就是有公告上網所以這個案子我是可以改組決議但是我會希望說對於我們整體的運動設施我們相關的這些規範我們相關的這些訊息可以更透明第469案的部分"},{"start":18663.142,"end":18688.949,"text":"關於說我們現在國人都很注重健康那剛剛提到的說因為肥胖率比較高那大家也希望說比較有對自己的身體健康可以提高都會去私立的這種健身中心去參與去買會籍以及就是聘教練那消費行為有消費行為就衍生出消費爭議這個案子主要是針對說我們2024年健身中心根據這個"},{"start":18690.59,"end":18716.449,"text":"統計第一次申訴件數達到2300件平均一天是5.5件那體育署這邊算是說有預算來輔導這些公民營的運動設施落實消費者的保護但是說起來還是覺得說沒有很具體而且你們來說明的時候有說主要權責是在地方縣市政府但是你們既然是有撲普預算就要有實際的效果所以本席這邊對體育署這邊的說明我沒有很滿意"},{"start":18719.611,"end":18720.172,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":18734.94,"end":18741.144,"text":"469案第470案規劃國家體育園區相關業務足球訓練基地教文委員會委員們很多次質詢關心但一直沒有看到體育署有相關建設規劃"},{"start":18758.313,"end":18781.001,"text":"我相信在場的張亮次長當初您還是委員的時候應該記得就是說我們在第10屆的時候有決議希望體育署可以盡速建設國家足球訓練基地但是很可惜體育署來說明的時候就是把你們的重點還是放在足球園區那其實足球場、足球園區跟足球訓練基地的概念是完全不同我覺得說體育署一直在"},{"start":18781.921,"end":18791.012,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":18799.582,"end":18828.917,"text":"好謝謝那張雅琳委員我們要按照那個順序巡迴一下好那我的案子是464案喔因為過去我在民間的時候呢就跟那個當時的民間團體我們一起有了倡議這個遷租計畫那在去年開始啊其實這個已經有優化全民運動與賽會環境計畫來補助地方設置共用型場地那我也知道共用型場地是現在大家一起努力的方向嘛但是因為目前申請共用場地的限制其實並不是很多"},{"start":18829.637,"end":18832.661,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":18850.68,"end":18858.626,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":18880.674,"end":18882.397,"text":"好 謝謝羅廷維委員"},{"start":18893.462,"end":18920.658,"text":"那我想目前我們國家體育建設下面推展經濟運動我們還是一樣剛剛其實葛如君委員也對這個非常的關心那我們看到現在包括這幾年有過的運動產業發展條例都是為了要將這個電子競技納入到運動產業那比照這個電競選手能夠比照運動項目像國家隊的培訓、獎章還有賽事以及相關的資源"},{"start":18920.998,"end":18927.485,"text":"但是我們看到今年2月27號臺灣電競選手UMA獨自帶著300美元征戰卡普空杯快打旋風6最後由他來奪冠"},{"start":18936.115,"end":18943.521,"text":"可是這個過程當中體育署是沒有給予任何的一個協助這個我要請部長特別重視那我要跟部長講我幫體育署也講個話不是體育署的錯是現在的法規在認定上的一個問題它並不是所謂的國際奧委會或者是有那個總會的一個賽事"},{"start":18958.752,"end":18965.755,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":18983.763,"end":18993.768,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":19011.864,"end":19032.463,"text":"4、5、8案很簡單如果等一下署長可以說明得很清楚的話我是可以改組決議的我們有個游泳健將蝶王王冠宏大家都知道6月份的時候他要去比賽結果錯過要檢之前其實已經有兩次還不是發生第一次差點就要去錯過巴黎的奧運"},{"start":19033.844,"end":19054.659,"text":"我們都知道其實一個運動選手尤其可以到國手他的運動生涯其實是非常短暫的所以我們要非常非常的去珍惜跟保護我們的選手所以未來我想如果有類似像耀簡郎或是其他我們的國手或我們的選手在外面需要體育署幫忙有很多的事情要做宣導通報或是協調的"},{"start":19055.74,"end":19061.228,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":19074.124,"end":19086.007,"text":"好 感謝周偉本席在這個第三幕的部分總共有447、448、449以及46455462、463總共有6個案子那幾個部分我想都一併來做一個討論447誠如我這邊所講就是說這一個修正計畫是不是尚未核定那請"},{"start":19104.41,"end":19108.255,"text":"補助地方政府辦理各運動場館設施新建案件執行進度第2、4、48每年國民運動日"},{"start":19119.551,"end":19140.124,"text":"一往都是這個小巨蛋包起來然後大家辦不管是這個大拜拜的一個活動啊歌舞表演啊等等的但是感覺執行上來講是差強人意也因此今年就說國民運動日這一個部分先把它給沒有做規劃那但是我們還是要有國民運動日的發展啊看一下日本"},{"start":19141.431,"end":19164.594,"text":"日本是真的國民運動日他們是把整個運動場館把所有的相關的運動環節甚至從外面有這個相關的這個家庭的系列活動整整的全部都包在一起他甚至日本舉辦的那一個線他是可以結合變成是一個整個運動的亮點的觀光活動"},{"start":19165.535,"end":19191.809,"text":"日本確實有做到這樣子我們看到網路上討論日本的國民運動日的時候他甚至很多的一些照片很多的一些活動我們不要只留於是小巨蛋包起來一天的一個表演所以我先肯定是說我們可能要做過去這樣子然後滾動檢討但是未來要怎麼做這個應該要讓我們知道我會希望是能夠督促國民運動日一定要辦好"},{"start":19193.348,"end":19199.493,"text":"449無動力飛行運動各縣市都有,但各縣市到目前為止還沒有完善法規,體育署同仁跟我解釋已經督促了,可是還沒。"},{"start":19210.868,"end":19231.306,"text":"都是進行中部長或是署長就知道說各縣市現在尤其是不管南投、不管新北、不管可能花蓮、台東等等的都還在進行中還沒有完全說各縣市都已經把這個無動力飛行運動的管理辦法給完善那我們也更希望是說如果有的話是不是中央要有一個統一辦法"},{"start":19232.987,"end":19258.781,"text":"中央能不能有一個統一的相關辦法來去推廣因為鼓勵嘛我們各縣市譬如說我們新北那個翡翠灣山上也很漂亮啊那個降落傘下來你從空中俯瞰大海、藍天本席也做過一次啊結果你現在告訴我說原來那各縣市的那個辦法都還沒有通過那原來我那個時候是在無辦法可循的時候我就上去是非了"},{"start":19260.521,"end":19267.247,"text":"我想可能很多人也都已經有去體驗過那這個辦法是不是應該要出來449的這一個部分我加快455的部分"},{"start":19273.581,"end":19291.787,"text":"主協目前的欠款狀況及後續追討的部分能夠怎麼樣完善?還有防避機制能不能做出來?不要未來提到足球運動我們從2017、18年台灣足球6年計劃結果6年計劃下去之後從150幾名變190幾名"},{"start":19300.202,"end":19316.304,"text":"那這個當然是我們都不樂見其實本席一直強調身為喜歡運動的委員來講我希望我們的臺灣運動就是一直往前所以能不能夠有一個釜底抽薪的方式這一點455特別提出來"},{"start":19318.598,"end":19343.672,"text":"462跟463請大家看一下462林玉婷選手我們的金牌選手不能被國際上任何歧視任何人都不應該即便是美國總統川普他即將1月12號上任但是他有任何的懷疑每懷疑一次我罵一次每懷疑一次我要嚴正駁斥抗議一次林玉婷選手就是我們"},{"start":19344.713,"end":19367.88,"text":"女性優秀的全級金牌選手沒有任何的質疑那但是體育署在這個部分怎麼那個時候署長不也一起去巴黎嗎那我們除了是說媒體有看到以後我們到底有沒有正式的提出相關的抗議以及我們有沒有正式要求甚至我在外交國防委員會也要求外交部應該跟我們教育部聯合起來啊"},{"start":19369.227,"end":19392.354,"text":"體育署應該有正式的說明給外交部英文的、中文的、各國語言的任何國家、世界只要質疑我們運動選手哪怕不是林玉婷有沒有其他的選手被質疑的時候我們都應該要駁刺嚴正抗議但到目前為止動作沒有看到林玉婷選手就是我們女性最優質的拳擊金牌選手"},{"start":19393.717,"end":19420.437,"text":"那463的一個部分我想這個合併體育場館的基本需求的一個規劃到底有沒有去整體的來盤點因為全國的運動場館的設備非常的多所有運動場館結果在這一次我們看到是說318萬執行完畢就想要做一個結案那有沒有真正重視所以我以上我這幾個部分那還有"},{"start":19421.57,"end":19445.456,"text":"那個部長我等一下拜託你這個我們剛剛預算詢答的時候一個推播新聞我覺得這一定要請教育部部長來鄭重的駁斥一下秋後算帳斑斑有先擄如防空警報結果高雄市的老師遭調查剛剛新聞聯合報推播的他說什麼他說"},{"start":19446.874,"end":19465.347,"text":"江山國小有一個老師在9日的時候社群分享先奶車到校時間不固定就像防空警報老師手上的工作被迫中斷要去分裝先奶學生下課不敢輕舉妄動隨時回去準備班級喝先奶這個就是第一線教育工作者"},{"start":19466.317,"end":19494.397,"text":"所以我們講這個高雄可是我本我本席或說我相信很多委員大家各選區的老師真的都是這樣因為最長的下課20分鐘就差不多10點11點那個時候那那個時候大家如果說有一些比較大的學校一次一兩千人的學校他要分送鮮奶就很麻煩結果這個老師的發文引起熱烈的分享跟回應點閱率破百萬次行政院19日宣布下學期全面停止斑斑鮮奶的政策"},{"start":19495.373,"end":19513.438,"text":"我想這也從善如流啊但沒想到居然講是說因為檢舉而引起學校調查那現在這個學校在調查然後又說要召開校事會議教育局的理性督學下令對他展開調查質疑是職場霸凌部長"},{"start":19516.226,"end":19534.675,"text":"我們教育部、農業部的政策不能因為這樣子然後把說真話的人給打壓嘛所以等一下是不是請部長回應一下不會有任何的老師因為我們的政策改變與否而遭受到不當的職場霸凌好不好那最後"},{"start":19535.895,"end":19558.376,"text":"兩個案件是吳春成委員他剛剛其實12點的時候一直在這邊但是因為召委宣布休息他也特別拜託我們一定也要再提一下那我想體育署之前有溝通過我就快速講過吳春成委員的案件分別是465跟452跟465那其中452就是"},{"start":19561.337,"end":19582.366,"text":"希望是壯世代的一個部分因為也是說要建立正確的運動方式來提升全民的運動風氣所以說這個壯世代的一個運動資訊的一個教導跟闡述那我想請體育署等一下來說明一下對於全民運動的一個推廣那465的部分就是跟我們雙北2025年市壯運在5月17到5月30的一個市壯運那"},{"start":19588.988,"end":19599.415,"text":"同時與吳淳誠委員推動的壯世代不謀而合,希望能夠利用這次的市壯運,讓我們市壯世代的議題能夠更加注重。包括全國性體育運動團體單項,增列壯世代組別,"},{"start":19611.678,"end":19635.907,"text":"來取代原本長青組。原本是叫長青組或是銀髮組或是中老年組現在就可以叫壯世代組那另外體育推手獎研議能夠偵測壯世代項目以及強化ESG各面向評估運動企業認證要把壯世代納入分類那還有就是各縣市政府推動壯世代族群參與2025年市壯運"},{"start":19638.388,"end":19643.369,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":19667.967,"end":19677.019,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":19685.95,"end":19686.61,"text":"四、六、五的視狀慾,歡迎委員一起。"},{"start":19702.529,"end":19702.989,"text":"提案委員提案委員"},{"start":19717.708,"end":19733.672,"text":"我只有一案459案是關於性別平等跟體育的決策因為我們女性的選手在國際上表現非常好可是並沒有機會參與決策那所以我一直希望就是教育部能夠就是讓相關的亞奧運團體任性別委員站總數三分之一為原則那專項委員會"},{"start":19739.934,"end":19758.549,"text":"任意性別不得小於三分之一教育部回覆說的確已經有相關獎勵措施目前有六成以上法定專項委員會達成也有七個協會增訂了性別比例也納入年度計畫所以有四、五、九項同意改成主決議以上那是不是就請鎮署長回應剛剛大家的"},{"start":19761.431,"end":19787.848,"text":"好 那我從444林倩琦委員的部分我想足球的部分我們KPI的確當時設計6年的確是比較不合適那這部分我們也在接下來已經在尋找合適的專家學者來研擬一個新的下一階段的一個足球的一個計畫那公建計畫的部分目前也在行政院在審查當中那47黃孟楷委員的部分我想這個在"},{"start":19788.789,"end":19817.228,"text":"充實全民計畫的部分合定200案在完工率的部分達81.5那我們會持續的督促之前因為缺工缺料的部分那我們建立管好機制已經在定期公共建設的一個推動匯報、輔導會議都已經在持續進行當中那48案的部分國民體育我想我們雖然把那個體育表演會取消主要是回歸到各大學回歸他的精神就是學生自己設計自己來編導這樣的精神而不是一次性的上演那我們"},{"start":19818.188,"end":19835.621,"text":"議務費的部分雖然有減少但是我們把新增的國民銀髮族部分的一個業務推展以及科技體適能還有結合國民體育在全國辦理那還有一些體育嘉年華那這部分在活動的充實部分我們持續再來繼續努力當中那49的部分"},{"start":19837.475,"end":19852.01,"text":"在飛行運動的部分目前已經有在我們今年年初的強力的要求之下屏東縣宜蘭縣跟花蓮上週已經送案來已經陸續完成他們的一個資質條例那跨部會的部分呢讓各縣市一些沒有辦法達成這個"},{"start":19853.752,"end":19857.514,"text":"非行運動場域施助4·50案陳秀白委員規律運動今年剛出來達到35%未來也是全民運動署的設置在社區機制方面我們會全力協助過去編制人少加上經費也真的很少"},{"start":19877.242,"end":19891.599,"text":"運動部全力在全民運動這塊當然要強化它的功能請這部分也是會持續來那451案的郭育群委員的部分謝謝我們的主席讓我們規律運動達35%我們持續努力當中那452案吳春成委員的部分讓我們配合辦理"},{"start":19894.161,"end":19917.081,"text":"4、5、5紅夢凱委員的部分我們在足球協會的部分當然我們已經在強化他們的財務紀律以及他們相關的一個技術部門的一個教育訓練他們最近有一些人事的編動也希望能夠再往好的方向去那他們已經償還了一半的債務那我們持續來管控他們那在4、5、6案的委員的部分我們的電競人才的部分我們會用"},{"start":19918.222,"end":19923.005,"text":"電競人才培育專案協助高端職業選手及職業選手需求這部分請委員考慮改組決議這部分在幾個月之內會有新專案協助他們457案陳秀白委員的部分我們在協會的部分在今年度已經有撤換協會的理事長這部分我們會把"},{"start":19943.155,"end":19969.63,"text":"教育訓練做得更好那我們也在經費補助的部分主動要求他們針對選手的部分呢去符合我們的基本的要求那458案萬元的部分這個王冠宏的部分呢當時的確不是他的錯誤是那個檢測員當時跟飯店櫃檯溝通上有一些出了問題那選手的確有秀出他的證明他人在房間裡面並沒有不在那裡所以這部分本人在一開始"},{"start":19970.43,"end":19971.912,"text":"基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、教"},{"start":19992.151,"end":20006.99,"text":"已經發文給所有的協會在下一屆的選舉一定要所有的委員會都必須要有單一性別三層以上我們這部分包括奧會的部分我們也在非當人委員的部分也有做一個要求"},{"start":20007.911,"end":20023.712,"text":"四六零案郭委員的部份我們在協會的部份我們一樣持續教育訓練的輔導四六二案黃孟楷委員的部份我們在巴黎其實我們跟外交部駐法的大使一起開國際記者會有英文的書面說明當地的"},{"start":20025.014,"end":20032.44,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設"},{"start":20052.297,"end":20073.974,"text":"委託國立師分大學辦理全國運動設施現況調查計畫。當然這是一個跨年度是到114年3月,所以分年編列預算執行。這部分我們會再持續來協助督導他們來做更務實的一個報告的一個結案。那464案的詹雅琳委員的部分,我們當然針對簽署計畫我們也是不管是"},{"start":20074.974,"end":20089.709,"text":"公園內的或是開放校園等等我們持續都有經費在請各縣市能夠持續來申請當然我們現在也反被動為主動我們接下來會主動去尋找去各縣市適合的場域來設請邀請他們來設置這個足球場域"},{"start":20094.033,"end":20114.498,"text":"465案五村城委員的部分,其實我們跟五委員在過去這半年跟他們辦公室持續在做會議以及溝通也找專大學者一起跟他們討論,針對壯士在的這個機會如何在各個縣市去做推動,這部分我們持續在進行當中。我們最近一次有一個報告也給委員,那目前委辦那邊還沒有跟我們一個回覆。"},{"start":20115.159,"end":20126.437,"text":"這部分我們會持續來跟他們一起合作推動。那44、466案國際情委員部分我們當然針對管考的機制也是跟剛剛一樣我們會持續來努力這個管考的部分。那467案"},{"start":20128.254,"end":20149.667,"text":"我們這個場地我們是在全國運動設施普查成果是已經有公告在網站上不過A、B、C級的部分倒是在後台沒有主動的公開那這部分我們會再回來做研議看看是不是有需要做一個公開當然國際賽的部分我們還是希望賽事的主辦單位能夠綜合評估之後才能知道這個場地是不是真的適合"},{"start":20153.009,"end":20155.291,"text":"468克茲恩委員感謝改成主決議469陳秀白委員"},{"start":20168.979,"end":20183.793,"text":"繼續落實這個查核機制。我們部分在去年,上個會期民眾黨的陳家華委員其實有類似的一個提案,我們也是有一個健身房主動一個宣言的部分來進行,這部分我們會後可以提供給委員。"},{"start":20186.587,"end":20212.552,"text":"47臉案陳秀保委員的部分國家足球訓練基地的部分我們目前就訓練的部分是臺北田林場、輔大、國體大、民船以及國訓中心男子運動球場不過我們現在比較缺的其實是比賽的場域這部分我們持續在跟各縣市在溝通這部分抱歉我們還是會持續因為我們其實都有申請但是經費在那邊各縣市其實不太"},{"start":20213.032,"end":20218.436,"text":"委員會主動邀請各縣市是否可遵守這項解決方法。第17議案科委員補助案件完工率達81.5%,建立管考機制,持續推動。"},{"start":20237.512,"end":20261.296,"text":"以上,如果沒有說明,再麻煩再提出來,謝謝。好,謝謝鄭署長的說明。我們是不是就針對第三幕,看要動多少。稍微請部長也講一下剛剛斑斑鮮奶的部分。部長,那就簡要回答,好嗎?"},{"start":20266.977,"end":20272.631,"text":"謝謝委員關心,其實斑斑有先來,我想讓學童有更健康的這個"},{"start":20277.745,"end":20303.218,"text":"這一個新聞我想我們事後來了解因為院長本來也就是希望不增加老師的一個負擔各縣是在沒有這個做法沒有共識之前暫時停止所以我想會後我們會來會來了解絕對不會有這一個委員所說的因為這樣而變成列入校事的這一個事件我想這也不是我們樂見的絕對不會有秋後算帳的情況"},{"start":20305.62,"end":20305.64,"text":"第3會議"},{"start":20313.809,"end":20341.366,"text":"這邊是有委員提議動100萬侯孟開委員剛剛署長的解釋我大致可以接受但是我們還是希望是說能夠督促因為其實如同我的449就是這個飛行傘的一個辦法的部分就是看得出來現在都在申請中那有一些縣市都還申請中那448的部分剛剛也講了全民運動日國民運動日的一個規劃"},{"start":20342.307,"end":20365.136,"text":"那我想明年既然要做我們都期待要做好所以說是不是我針對這個推廣全民運動就我們在第三幕01的這個分支預算裡面推廣全民運動這邊我建議凍結600萬好不好那希望這個國民運動日跟這個飛行傘的這個推廣一起能夠更努力積極的把它給辦理完畢謝謝"},{"start":20368.077,"end":20392.155,"text":"羅廷偉委員你要發言嗎?456案我是凍結2000萬那請問那個署長你剛剛說會有類似的專案可以再更具體嗎?是類黃金專案嗎?幾個月可不可以說明一下?這個我們在半年之內我們會有一個類黃金計畫的一個人才電競人才培育專案我們基金來支持三個月好不好?我改組決議喔好OK好不好"},{"start":20392.615,"end":20409.453,"text":"那類黃金計劃還包含哪一些運動項目?除了電競我們黃金計劃目前就各個運動種類嘛那當然還有像職業網球、職業高爾夫這樣子目前主要是一些奧運種類的為主那為什麼不叫黃金計劃因為我們那個黃金計劃還是以奧運為主"},{"start":20412.936,"end":20437.522,"text":"所以你把電競納入類黃金計劃就是我們會處於一個案子那個感覺很像黃金計劃但是實際上就是扶植這些職業選手因為目前的法規裡面我們職業選手的部分沒有辦法直接補助所以我們用一個專案的部分來但是這個要經過管理委員會的同意才行對 因為電競本席也很關心那不要叫類黃金啦因為他們也是 對後面有委員抗議啦30秒就好那個類黃金的計劃你們在政策裡面真的叫類黃金計劃"},{"start":20441.903,"end":20468.065,"text":"沒有沒有他只是舉例而已好嚇死我嚇死我名字是不是怪怪的沒有我想應該是這麼講說把電競的人才怎麼樣去培養去鼓勵去補助給獎勵這樣一個我們的方向來努力我想就是電競專案啦好不好電競職業選手的專案三個月我改組決議阿不然我就繼續動囉不好意思組長有個建議啦就是新興運動計畫是不是因為其實都是屬於新興運動項目"},{"start":20469.286,"end":20485.935,"text":"把這一個電競人才也納進,電競校務也納進來這樣。好,那456案改組決議,那我們剛剛有委員動100萬,那有委員希望動500萬,有沒有其他的委員要發言?沒有的話是不是,那我444也改組決議。好,444改組決議。那我們是不是部長這邊對數字有沒有什麼看法?"},{"start":20497.331,"end":20516.463,"text":"我講我們尊重委員的一個建議那我們是不是整體動400萬好嗎?因為剛剛有100萬、有500萬啊尊重委員100萬也有人提啊我剛剛講的是說我要在這個分支預算的推動推展全民運動的這一個項目裡面動結600萬"},{"start":20523.219,"end":20542.197,"text":"因為這樣子齁,就是,對啊,因為我們有委員會抗議,就是說大家都會一起不動。然後我在462,462我改組決議,就是說那個李玉婷委員的這個部分,我想重點在於是要守護我們選手的權益,不容許任何人的污蔑或是抹黑。"},{"start":20544.437,"end":20546.639,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":20566.673,"end":20582.581,"text":"但是我的部分我就針對說國民運動日或我就針對說那個飛行傘的部分我必須要坦白從寬我對你剛才所提的日本的這個國民運動日的觀念我是非常佩服的我覺得它不應該只是一個償款一次"},{"start":20583.201,"end":20604.638,"text":"甚至可以變成全國的一個全民運動日然後就是一個嘉年華或是威斯德堡各縣市在那一天裡邊大家都全民運動有一個我相信它對全民運動是有一個縣市的意義所以是在這一個部分因為確實提議了許多的這些經會都用來支持各地方的所以是不是也委員我們這一個"},{"start":20606.912,"end":20613.135,"text":"我想大家的一個想法觀念,怎麼樣讓台灣能夠全民運動更好?是不是能夠給予支持?"},{"start":20620.017,"end":20630.927,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":20640.316,"end":20664.189,"text":"451、456、458、459、467、468、444、462"},{"start":20667.69,"end":20682.837,"text":"第475案到第482案照案通過第483案修正文字後通過第484案到第489案教育部照案通過"},{"start":20684.577,"end":20694.862,"text":"490案修正文字後通過491案到493案教育部照案通過494案修正文字後通過495案到497案教育部照案通過498、499修正文字後通過500案"},{"start":20706.807,"end":20712.492,"text":"五百案也是修正文字後通過。以下面到的預算案也該組決議。200、203、206、213、235、238、310、311、312、317、324、330、331、332、"},{"start":20728.106,"end":20755.636,"text":"三三四、三三五、三三七、三三八、三四六、三六九、三七四、三七九、四一八、四二零、四二三、四二四、四二七、四三零以上預算案改主決議481案文字上有修正就是三個月一個月改修正成三個月主決議案481案五個月改三個月"},{"start":20758.114,"end":20758.374,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":20776.038,"end":20777.839,"text":"教育部監督國家運動訓練中心這一本的第一頁比較小本的"},{"start":20809.207,"end":20832.021,"text":"運動中心國家運動訓練中心最最最薄的這個薄薄的教育部監督國家運動訓練中心這一本我們先處理國家運動訓練中心處理完之後再處理國家運動科學中心然後這樣子體育署的人就可以回去上班我們再回來處理清發署"},{"start":20834.64,"end":20849.635,"text":"國家運動訓練中心這一本先拿出來下一本是國家運動科學中心一個國訓中心一個國科中心大家手上都拿到了嗎"},{"start":20855.098,"end":20857.999,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":20890.027,"end":20892.49,"text":"委員還有沒有人還沒拿到資料的?"},{"start":20895.838,"end":20896.159,"text":"現在資料暫停。"},{"start":20921.819,"end":20943.237,"text":"主秘建議運發基金最後再處理你們就留兩個人下來我們先處理國家運動訓練中心然後還有國家現在國訓中心國訓中心然後國家運動科學中心之後我們再回來處理清發署那其他處理完的公務員就可以先走了"},{"start":20951.437,"end":20953.338,"text":"各位如果手上都有的話,我們這邊有1案到第12案"},{"start":20968.206,"end":20970.048,"text":"陳秀寶委員第一案是關於我們運科的專業人力近三年的進駐國訓中心的隊伍數及選手數都上升了但是運科的專業人力沒有減弱的提升"},{"start":20992.528,"end":21003.196,"text":"113年的7月底每位防護員平均要支援2.76隊要支援35.97位選手每位護理師平均要支援16隊選手數是來到了208.6位的選手他要這樣服務顯見我們國訓中心沒有有效的增補人力我們這樣子照護的品質及專業人力的負擔實在是說真的是壓力很大"},{"start":21020.93,"end":21035.941,"text":"應課中心提出提出更重視但是他們的效率增補人員的效率是真的還趕不上我們增加的人數所以這個部分我提凍結案是凍結500萬"},{"start":21038.143,"end":21061.138,"text":"但是國訓中心你們有來說明我想我是還是要提醒啦我們的運動發展是一定會有越來越多的好的選手進駐到國訓中心所以你們對於這個增補人力專業人力這個部分一定要更積極那我這個案子是可以改組決議但是我會希望你給我一份你們到底如何規劃來適時的增補這些相關的專業人力的這個報告書給我辦公室以上"},{"start":21067.202,"end":21094.872,"text":"好,那個等一下柯智恩委員好,謝謝我們一樣我覺得提出可能要正式一下這個國訓中心現在目前為止有非常多人就跑到你們運科因為你們運科的錢比較多好不好這是個事實你不能否認所以你這個部分你們要非常的注意因為你看非常多轉職然後我說實在拿一個我比較在行的運動心理諮商老師為例"},{"start":21095.532,"end":21112.783,"text":"我就說已經有四位運動心理諮商老師轉任到運科中心然後呢你們現在也僅剩下兩位而且還沒有任何諮商心理師進駐的這個狀況所以這個部分裡面吼你真的是知識體大啦因為這些人對不起你要聽我講完好不好因為對我來說的話這些運動員的心理的狀態非常非常重要國訓中心還是很需要欸署長我在講話拜託我給我尊重一下好不好我在講話"},{"start":21123.81,"end":21149.469,"text":"我真的很重視這一塊你的國訓中心未來也是培育選手一個非常非常重要的一個基地然後呢你的心理師如果他沒有任何的證照然後只是因為有證照而且是屬於運動心理的這樣的一個專業的話全部轉走的話那你就放在國訓中心的選手發生一些心理的問題你真的叫他怎麼辦所以我覺得強力的要求啊這個人力的配置啊你們的薪資各方面"},{"start":21150.089,"end":21158.823,"text":"不要多以為都是在體育署裡面這兩個東西還是很大的不一樣所以我覺得這個部分裡面我看是透過凍結或什麼樣的方法但是我要求體育署一定要正視這個問題然後給我一個報告"},{"start":21162.033,"end":21166.655,"text":"張雅玲、陳培余、林怡瑾、侯孟凱黃金計劃提供優秀運動選手補助選手反映經費審議流程非常複雜本來是頂尖選手想請高階的培練員但在審議過程中又會去刁難他"},{"start":21185.52,"end":21187.802,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":21207.837,"end":21220.383,"text":"教練、陪練員、場地租借等預算都有很大的差異。希望這個地方可以有更細緻的規劃,所以想請待會可以做一個更詳細的說明。這一案我沒有堅持,我可以跟其他的委員一起平安處理。謝謝。"},{"start":21226.869,"end":21230.573,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、教育部主管47所"},{"start":21249.091,"end":21277.19,"text":"接下來目前國訓中心所聘用的外籍教練當中有一位男足代表隊的教練不管是他的薪資或者是相關的很多在訓練上的做法其實讓非常多專業人士非常有疑問包含甚至在今年國際比賽日的時候他甚至選擇去花蓮儀訓讓很多球迷跟業界都覺得非常的不解那到底國訓中心有沒有任何的檢討機制對於這個教練跟協助這些球隊跟球員我相信沒有球隊跟球員願意被放在一個"},{"start":21278.531,"end":21302.603,"text":"不被重視的位子那他們畢竟代表國家但是如果對於教練相關的機制國訓中心沒有辦法有任何的監督我會覺得非常的可惜相關的預算其實也很沒有辦法讓人民信任那第三個就是過往台灣的亞運、世大運相關的名單到底什麼樣的隊伍可以被派出去參賽到底是要有奪牌希望派出去還是大家認為只要是有積極讓選手到國際賽事磨練參賽經驗我們都可以派出去"},{"start":21307.225,"end":21325.316,"text":"其向之前就有人討論過像是自行車、鐵人三項是不是體育署或是國訓中心認為沒有多拍希望就不拍那如果都是用這樣的角度明明大家的感覺體感上相關預算已經增加這麼多但是沒有讓選手機會到國際賽事上去磨練其實非常的可惜"},{"start":21327.036,"end":21348.542,"text":"體育界兒少權益及運動人員的人權及心理健康在國訓中心我們依然可以看見有長期沒有改善的狀況包含過度的住宿管理、兒少運動員的心理健康還有相關公會的組織改善作為我們一直在拜託國訓中心要把人權及兒少小組要盡速成立還有相關的心理倫理準則"},{"start":21349.302,"end":21357.729,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":21370.058,"end":21390.635,"text":"謝主席我是第六案第六案之前我質詢的時候就有提過就是說身心障礙選手的成就佳績跟非身心障礙的選手有落差那以奧運跟帕運來舉例本來奧運第一名是拿到兩萬元的成就佳績帕運第一名只有一萬五千差了五千"},{"start":21391.115,"end":21413.376,"text":"那上次質詢完之後那那個體育署有重篡如流然後有成就佳績要修正成一樣的金額所以國訓中心這裡我就這個第六案就改成主決議那我echo一下那個陳培宇的第五案那個第五案培宇委員講到那個競技強化委員會不公開的問題"},{"start":21414.777,"end":21437.556,"text":"這一題其實我也很關心那體育署跟我們說之所以不公開是因為擔心公開會產生賄賂的情形那同樣基於防弊的邏輯我也想問那如果說欠缺公開、欠缺監督會不會反而更容易在審議過程中發生檯面下私相授受的情形"},{"start":21439.258,"end":21453.51,"text":"第4屆、第5屆、第6屆競強會委員的名單重複率逼近百分百表面上不公開的名單實際上讓有心人有明確的往歷可循所以我要求我們應該要比照都市計畫委員會"},{"start":21454.551,"end":21462.6,"text":"或環評委員一樣公開委員名單,讓國訓中心可以接受全民監督。昨天有跟署長談到黃金計劃進退場的規定,當然這個部分署長謝謝,也謝謝國訓中心,我們新版昨天已經公告,"},{"start":21476.795,"end":21499.529,"text":"稍後有消除一些疑慮那可是既然新版已經合理了許多那就要請署長允諾未來就是說要依照現行版的機制有一些選手可以依照現行版的機制來退場也就是說假設今天亞運第一名的選手進場的選手在執行一年後進行檢核"},{"start":21500.089,"end":21515.805,"text":"那他就要依據當年世界排名來做調整相應對的這個級別所以延慶體育署在發給這個選手合併函的時候就要特別續名那避免這個爭議發生以上提醒 謝謝好 謝謝 洪孟楷委員下一位萬美玲"},{"start":21526.564,"end":21553.583,"text":"好感謝我是第10案跟第12案第10案的部分來請說明一下是說我們一樣都是有50位的這個替代役的員額補充兵但是今年的預算反而比去年減少那書面說明裡面講是說預算收編無影響替代役補充兵的照顧資源那不就是自己承認說以往都是撫編嗎"},{"start":21556.104,"end":21572.979,"text":"不是,重點是你的人員沒變啊欸署長,我現在在講然後結果你跟我扯掃指話這樣子就牛頭不對馬嘴你都是50人,來來聽清楚來署長,這樣子我覺得說你是有一點點不了解"},{"start":21573.88,"end":21597.908,"text":"都是50人去年你也是編50人然後你的預算規模是這樣那今年一樣是50人結果你的預算規模自己就減少了那本席覺得奇怪啊本席就問說為什麼你的專業服務費、使用材料費用品耗材費卻比較少結果你們跟我講是說減少了但是一樣可以獲得優秀的照顧那麼就代表說以往就是服編說清楚好不好第12案的部分"},{"start":21604.571,"end":21629.874,"text":"代管資產折舊,你的說明是代管資產,我們國訓中心的代管資產有七十幾億啊那原值七十幾億,確認一下那代管資產到底是什麼,怎麼七十幾億然後我們每年折舊攤提要兩億多那就每年我們要編兩億多的預算去做這七十幾億的攤提,國訓中心是建築嗎?還是什麼東西要這樣子攤提的一個七十兩億多每年,這個要說明,好不好以上"},{"start":21631.743,"end":21632.044,"text":"萬美玲委員"},{"start":21642.768,"end":21669.543,"text":"第8案的部分其實署長也有來說明過不過我覺得還是要細細叮嚀一下因為我們現在之前看到我們的國訓中心什麼颱風來以後大停電我們選手要在黑暗中來練球然後那個風雨雨水都還可以從這個窗戶灌進來預算不是沒有給那我們給選手這樣子的一個設備跟硬體我想這是不能接受所以呢我想"},{"start":21670.944,"end":21671.144,"text":"第9項預算案"},{"start":21686.877,"end":21715.657,"text":"但是作為補助國內外外移訓練及專案計劃的用途可是113年的時候我們是編列2億9,將近3億現在看起來增加的幅度達到102%其實蠻多的不過為什麼都會常常有一些負面的新聞爆出我們看到我們的選手在黃金計畫2.0跟3.0改版交接的時候收到了不合理的一個降級這也引起了很大的爭議"},{"start":21716.798,"end":21720.362,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":21731.715,"end":21734.337,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業"},{"start":21762.401,"end":21784.48,"text":"比較單純,應該等一下也可以把它講明白也就是說在這個預算下面113年是編3,507萬那我們現在增加了484萬但是其中有一項就是資訊行政系統整合行政協助的費用多增加了這個部分但是卻沒有說明這個用途要往哪去我想這個等一下應該可以很清楚做一個說明以上"},{"start":21785.748,"end":21788.809,"text":"請鄭署長說明第一案成修法委員會視人力服務對象增加來調整各隊都會讓他們另外偵騙誰對的"},{"start":21810.296,"end":21825.963,"text":"中心資與人員編制內。那整個國訓中心他們在薪資的部分的確目前他們的人事是正在做大幅度的檢討,因為的確現在的薪資的確沒有要拚到合理的、好的這些的防護或是治療師的部分,那我們會持續來加強。"},{"start":21827.083,"end":21831.024,"text":"大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":21848.564,"end":21866.062,"text":"資商心理師的部分之前國訓中心有兩個員友有聘但是最近有離職對這部分一樣也是卡在我覺得也是心智的問題所以這部分他們的人事是也在努力當中那這部分已經要求國訓中心趕快做一個調整才能聘到合適的人員"},{"start":21870.399,"end":21887.499,"text":"張雅玲委員提到的申請程序部分目前已經有簡化一層的流程我們在114年啟用協會管理系統也希望透過這樣子來減少資料建立及重複工作的問題我們持續努力當中"},{"start":21888.54,"end":21909.676,"text":"陳培宇委員的部分,我想進場委員的部分我昨天已經有跟國訓執行長這邊有做深入的討論那我們覺得也應該要公開所以進場委員會的委員我們在最近會把它做公開那我們這兩年也特別是去年跟今年我都汰換了差不多三成桌的委員其實這樣比較屬於良性的一個汰換"},{"start":21911.926,"end":21934.624,"text":"在亞運、世大運的部分我們必須說還是以能夠有一定的成績在亞洲比方說亞運亞洲前6名的這樣一個排名來參賽為夷而不是所有的人都可以去那當然你的錦標賽或者是亞警賽這些我們或是世青、亞青這部分我們體育署另外我們會全力來支持協會"},{"start":21936.545,"end":21953.756,"text":"這部分當然因為亞運跟奧運、世大運都牽涉到肌肉選手的輔導等等的福利這部分也不太合適去全面來開放那至於兒少人權委員會這部分體育署目前是有那我這部分也請國訓中心能夠儘早來成立這樣的一個相關的委員會"},{"start":21955.757,"end":21969.85,"text":"第7案科委員﹚就你剛剛講過了第8案外委員的部分讓我們再次的颱風的部分停電的部分是臺電在營區外整體的一個停電所以他們搶修之後基本上在復電所以這不算是國訓中心自己的問題再來是"},{"start":21972.093,"end":21985.773,"text":"宿舍有滲入的部分主要是那個漆密窗它的周邊那邊不夠密所以他們已經有做防水膠條來更新來處理那這部分問題也是解決那我們持續來努力那在第九案"},{"start":21987.408,"end":22013.812,"text":"在黃金計劃的部分之前發生領域性教練公開的一個訴求這部分是我們國訓中心的人員我們請他們能夠做更主動、更細膩的說明讓教練安心其實並沒有損害到選手的權益不過教練的憂心、擔憂當然是大家可以理解的第十案紅委員的部分我們在國訓中心的編列的部分這部分我是不是讓執行長來回答比較好"},{"start":22015.708,"end":22036.486,"text":"第四項的部分,報告衡委員,我們這個部分是因為每年編這樣的預算號實際執行的時候,招聘的替代役他人員會浮動,所以他浮動的情況之下今年沒有用那麼多,我們發現前幾年沒有用那麼多,所以才會就這樣的調整。以上報告,謝謝。好,那第十項,那個萬委員的部分。"},{"start":22037.951,"end":22056.526,"text":"在114年度增加編列135萬元,主要是完善選手及教練相關系統,使教練選手在單一平台上能夠更多作業。在紅委員的部分,代管資產折舊的部分,是不是請我們同仁來回答?"},{"start":22058.412,"end":22083.015,"text":"謝謝委員的指教那就是有關於這個所謂他們編列責救攤提的部分跟公務預算的確有所不同公務預算是不會編列這個所謂責救相關費用但是法人的會計制度他是比較偏向基金性質的所以他會編列相關的責救費用以上以上 謝謝好 謝謝那個林益菁委員要提議嗎好"},{"start":22085.089,"end":22109.827,"text":"不好意思署長就是我剛剛有這個ECO培育委員的這個第五案然後我自己的主決也有寫就是這個黃金計畫的這個退場的就是說如果說亞運第一名有進場那我們執行一年進行檢核那是不是可以一定要按照這個事件盤名來調整他的相對的級別網球的部分沒有錯對網球網球網球沒有錯是齁是齁就是有就依照新版"},{"start":22110.287,"end":22115.329,"text":"林倩琦委員我這邊就簡單補充謝謝趙委在剛才我這邊的第4案我就是提醒一下因為蘇理院有來說明所以在這個部分有關於職業選手在心理的部分剛才有委員提了然後第二個部分是有關於他們未來在職業上不是只有運動教練所以除了蘇理院這邊有談到的運動教練的人數正在增加然後也做一些輔導"},{"start":22138.257,"end":22149,"text":"但是他們其他的可能性,我也請這邊再做一個研議,好不好?所以我剛剛第12案還是沒有跟我說明,你們說明裡面寫說代管資產原值70.93億,那到底是什麼?是除了那建築物以外還有什麼東西?你用麥克風好不好?"},{"start":22165.713,"end":22191.911,"text":"國訓中心改制為行政法人之後就是體育署有移撥我們國有的財產就是一些就是建築物嘛我們的兩面建築物還有就是就是他們合撥給我們的經費就是指的用途我們有建就是我們的一二三期不是有建那個比如說我們的宿舍啊餐廳啊那一些建築物好那這樣子是不是代管資產列表給我一下那這我OK好不好改組決議齁你們再給紅委員"},{"start":22196.153,"end":22197.954,"text":"第8案、第9案、第11案張雅琳委員第三案改組決議"},{"start":22226.721,"end":22236.431,"text":"我這邊是提案是凍結100萬最主要是還是卡在我的這個心理師上面的這個層面所以你們要給予什麼樣的做法"},{"start":22240.938,"end":22266.537,"text":"我們建議好不好半年內把薪資做調整然後來聘到諮商心理師用合適的市場價值市場薪資可以嗎可以嗎 署長承諾主決議好不好 那就寫一個主決議給我那我們好像幾乎都改主決議了那我們這一個就照列了好不好好 因為國家運動訓練中心表現良好所以大家都改主決議照列第三案"},{"start":22269.839,"end":22280.007,"text":"第一案、第四案、第六案、第八案、第九案、第十一案、第三案、第七案國家運動科學中心國家運動科學中心國家運動科學中心國家運動科學中心國家運動科學中心國家運動科學中心"},{"start":22301.804,"end":22314.109,"text":"我是第二案我的第二案是這樣有關於人力的問題運科中心其實在前年9月就已經揭牌可是運科中心原本規劃編制員額是100人"},{"start":22316.59,"end":22318.833,"text":"計劃人力40人分階段招募人才今年預計禁用編制53人計劃人力12人截至今年8月底才有禁用編制43人計劃5人"},{"start":22331.527,"end":22345.666,"text":"就等於說還有很大的缺額。可是明年度好像預計要讓編制人力到64人,結果15人。那我是擔心人力的聘用會有不足。那我想運科中心又主要負責運科研發規劃。"},{"start":22347.188,"end":22371.485,"text":"那截至今年8月底運科中心的運動科學處跟運動科技及資訊開發處運動醫學研究處原本規劃研究人力有82個人那實際應用的研究人力只有17人喔82、17就落差很大所以有關人員招募的部分希望運科中心能加強規劃選材讓人力迅速到位"},{"start":22373.379,"end":22374.44,"text":"第三案主決議照案辦理"},{"start":22395.048,"end":22408.914,"text":"那簡單來說就是說因為大家也知道最近新聞上面一直以來都有這個到底是不當訓練呢還是體罰等等等等喔所以照那可能教練都跟家長說這是訓練的過程所以必須造成的一些傷害可是事實上都是過度訓練而造成運動選手"},{"start":22410.514,"end":22420.159,"text":"學生運動員在還沒站上世界舞台受傷,希望透過運科中心協助制定相關運動訓練指引。已經完成足球頭槌指引,讓孩子避免腦傷。"},{"start":22427.862,"end":22456.424,"text":"那我也想知道未來我們還有什麼樣子的運動指引的規劃那同時呢像這些已經公佈的指引會怎麼樣落實在運動教練的培訓上面好讓他們可以真正落實到我們的孩子能夠讓他們不會因為過度訓練而提早結束運動生涯所以這個部分的話就再請體育署再多做一些詳細的說明那這部分我沒有堅持謝謝好謝謝再來陳秀寶等一下柯志恩、洪孟凱"},{"start":22462.148,"end":22476.937,"text":"運動科學一直都是我們教文委員會的委員們很關心的議題運科中心在當初成立的時候本席也持續過說希望運科知識的科普也是非常重要的業務也就是我們應該用淺顯易懂的方式讓全民知道運科的知識"},{"start":22478.558,"end":22492.324,"text":"運動中心的業務並不只是提供專業選手也應該落實在全民運動來增加民眾相關運科的知識能夠增加我國規律運動的人數未來運動部也應該要盡全力來將競技運動全民化"},{"start":22494.025,"end":22494.045,"text":"獲得獎項獎項"},{"start":22510.157,"end":22535.391,"text":"但是我真的希望說運科中心可以透過更多的管道來傳遞運科知識你們不要只是注重在文章發表還是期刊可以讓這些運科知識更普及更生活化的跟我們的民眾所需要的這些來結合來提高我們民眾這個運動規律的這樣子的一個意願以上好 謝謝再來柯志恩委員"},{"start":22540.549,"end":22543.172,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":22560.132,"end":22560.853,"text":"侯孟楷委員"},{"start":22586.038,"end":22608.226,"text":"我先回答一下很難啊為什麼這跟早上我們討論那個是一樣的體育署一樣你的正式編列法定員額有100人然後結果這個人事員額現在只有64就是行政院就不給你100嘛行政院不給你100的話你這樣再怎麼補都沒辦法除非要拍板啊"},{"start":22609.42,"end":22623.567,"text":"所以我們現在立法院要給我們國科中心靠就是我們來提案是不是凍結這個減劣預算讓你能夠更有動力去跟行政院跟人事總處拍板不是 你的正式緣額你就沒有編列 你沒有緣額嘛你看本席的第3案跟第9案"},{"start":22634.005,"end":22658.619,"text":"你們的回答也是一樣,你的法定緣額100人,但是你的預算緣額只有64人。那就代表說你一開始編列的時候你就自我設限你只有64。你法定你可以100,已經掛牌3年了耶。結果我們自己都只有2%的人力編組,那無怪乎我們大家都在講是說我們國科人員不夠、人員不足、量能不夠,我們期許可以做更多事。"},{"start":22660.353,"end":22688.132,"text":"那你說你這有什麼辦法明年又是運動部要掛牌運動部掛牌之後運動部搶的人更多從100多人要變400人所以如果說職缺比較好來運動部國科人更少會不會再來第三案這個也是本席講的出國不是不好但是要去哪個國家看什麼項目以及真真正正他山之石可以攻錯這個本席要支持可是"},{"start":22689.281,"end":22717.997,"text":"你可不可以告訴我為什麼去英國卡達跟新加坡我們現在棒球強那是不是應該是要去看日本、美國我們足球好是不是要去看歐洲的相關國家你要發展什麼樣的運動什麼樣的強項我們去看那一個最強的國家他怎麼做英國你也許是看足球我不知道因為英國英超是確實不錯但卡達你是要去看什麼"},{"start":22719.755,"end":22742.837,"text":"卡達什麼運動最好?跟我們台灣什麼運動最match?台灣強的是巧固球阿其他國家要來台灣學習觀摩巧固球的培育阿那我們要去卡達看什麼?那新加坡?新加坡的運動選手不管是奧運的表現或什麼可能也沒有我們好吧?"},{"start":22744.073,"end":22766.141,"text":"那你現在又編列三個出國,然後出國人數要15人,你的運科中心也才64人,你等於四分之一的人力會出國。當然出國可能幾天啦,不是說一次就全部15個人全部出去啦。但是你這樣子會不會,已經人又少了,然後你又編列出國計畫,那出國到底是要看什麼,是要做什麼,以及回來有什麼樣的成效?"},{"start":22769.435,"end":22795.027,"text":"還有最後我的主決議雖然第九案我提主決議但是我想這也是跟剛剛很多委員都有提到就是說運動心理的一個部分因為運動心理諮商不管是之前的國訓中心負責運動心理諮商是只有五位那現在運科中心的部分是不是能夠加強培育運動心理師能夠讓我們許多的運動選手不管是在培訓的過程有運動心理的一個抒壓"},{"start":22797.895,"end":22815.763,"text":"比賽的過程以及最終比賽完畢之後他的一些心理的一個調適以及未來職場的規劃發展我想運動心理師非常重要所以運動心理師的緣額跟勞動條件完備運動員的心理支持制度這個部分我要要求再提供相關報告來精進說明謝謝"},{"start":22818.684,"end":22819.524,"text":"臺灣教育部主管"},{"start":22843.01,"end":22844.171,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":22862.538,"end":22867.419,"text":"提醒運科中心有關原住民及運科研究上除了研究主體性以外普遍性在開發許多系統"},{"start":22881.903,"end":22905.921,"text":"但是在開發這個系統的同時現代運動員或已經在這個運動場上職場上的運動員他們習慣的方式運客中心可能也要把它列入考量一個是導引那一個是現在的一個支援系統這邊做一個提醒那我這案改組決議OK好這案改組決議那署長是不是一起回應是讓執行長來回應那個羅廷偉剛剛有漏掉嗎你有提案嗎"},{"start":22907.959,"end":22934.134,"text":"我是第10案跟第11案是主決議那我想也看到這邊願意利益良善來回應我那我這邊都同意我們這邊就改成主決議這邊就維持這個主決議那我目前還是希望運動科學的這個競爭力跟影響力希望能夠更具體的所以我希望這個三個月內要提出這個建制相關資料進度調整的情形讓我知道一下"},{"start":22935.195,"end":22947.926,"text":"確保研究能力達到預期規模科研的研發很重要科運中心目前面臨的問題要提出改善的方案與預定的期程三個月一樣給我"},{"start":22949.648,"end":22976.612,"text":"那署長是那個執行長委員們好謝謝大家這麼的關心運動科學中心那我是不是一併因為有幾位委員柯之鑫委員林一金委員還有我們洪孟凱委員還有幾位委員特別針對在用人的部分容許我解釋一下今年8月份調查的時候的確那個人數是如此沒有錯但是因為我們今年1月才是真正的開始運作我們招人需要一點點時間我們不敢亂聘人"},{"start":22976.952,"end":22997.121,"text":"因為聘來之後就不是那麼好處理我們在等的其實是因為有些是來自於一些專案的人與研究人員他們的研究時間結束是7月底所以我們勢必要等到還有一些是來自於學校的老師他也是學期結束7月31號之後對 所以很抱歉那到今天為止其實已經滿額了"},{"start":22998.422,"end":23018.613,"text":"到今天為止我們已經聘滿了我們持續的會去招聘科技人員、研究人員所以在用人上面請大家放心我們會非常的珍惜大家給我們的機會我們會好好的找人為我們的選手做出好的一個規劃那明年的預算原額是64個人在編制類這個地方那我們也持續的去找人"},{"start":23021.087,"end":23047.297,"text":"一下子就聘滿100個人其實有它的危險性因為不要為了滿而滿這是我們希望能夠謹慎的聘人的一個原因好不好那請給委員能夠支持我們現在這樣子的一個做法接下來是洪孟凱委員提到的那三個訪問的地方英國是因為在2004年左右他成立了他們的運動科學中心為了2012年的倫敦奧運那個之後倫敦但是英國的運動科學現階段在各國評比當中"},{"start":23048.237,"end":23063.649,"text":"他其實是最好的。我們過去看了日本,日本關起來不給我們看。我們認為要去英國學習,因為現階段評估是最好。至於卡達,國家是不怎麼樣,但是他的那一個Aspartal的運動醫學中心是世界第一名。"},{"start":23068.771,"end":23080.035,"text":"新加坡的運動成就似乎也沒有那麼好可是他們在推動全民運動健康這個地方做得非常的好所以我們才會又是亞洲國家所以我們相信是從"},{"start":23080.695,"end":23103.574,"text":"人的健康的角度看看科學可以如何的介入這件事情我們去跟他做一些學習因此我們安排了這三個國家的訪問那接下來是張雅玲委員提到的這些指引我們會非常的努力來做那對於運動傷害預防這個東西因為講很容易做不容易我們在今年這個月底會完成初步的臺灣第一個運動傷害"},{"start":23107.749,"end":23127.006,"text":"追蹤的紀律系統是臺灣現有的唯一的流行病學的追蹤系統我們說那個系統當中可以讓我們的運動員的傷害原因清楚的了解有了機轉我們才有辦法去提出預防的方法所以從系統上來說我們是持續的見過很多的工具"},{"start":23128.247,"end":23152.065,"text":"傷害的發生第一件事情要去處理的其實是負荷的追蹤管理運動負荷的追蹤管理需要系統去追蹤現階段就需要一點點時間去開發好不好所以容許給我們一點點時間我們持續的努力來讓運動傷害預防這件事情持續的來處理那至於剛剛有幾位委員非常關心的有關於人力的部分那在運動心理諮商老師這件事情"},{"start":23153.045,"end":23170.191,"text":"從1月1號開始本來在國訓中心的這些運動科學技術人員將要一併的併到運科中心來運作所以會讓這個整體的運作我們將會對每一個運動員或個案提出一個五個人至少五個人的融合性的運動科學資源團隊來幫助他們"},{"start":23172.612,"end":23198.041,"text":"運動心理諮商老師本身也是這個一部分我們已經提案到我們的董事會要增加這一群運動技術科學技術人員的薪資已經提案了我們在董事會通過之後就可以去執行因此我們會善待我們會希望能夠讓好的人進到運動科學來來讓我們提供更好的服務那開發真的需要一點點時間好不好那我們已經做了一些努力至於剛剛在那個"},{"start":23199.982,"end":23227.904,"text":"科普的部分我們不是只有在發表文章我拜託我們的研究員到今天為止已經寫了73篇的科普文章我們不是去發表期刊我們在國語日報我們用漫畫的方式去讓人家瞭解讓小孩子瞭解我們透過FB我們透過Instagram我們正要去做Podcast的方式讓用直播的方式讓大家更瞭解所以期待各位能夠支持我們應可中立謝謝"},{"start":23228.624,"end":23253.058,"text":"那個有委員說很感動謝謝黃啟華執行長好像都所以我的第二案要改組決議第二案改組決議然後張雅玲我想再追問一下下就是我的那一案因為其實我知道現在有投足投槌的一些指引但是我還是想要知道他如何落實到現場好落實到現場因為可能體育署要配合因為如果只有這個指引出來教練自己在家裡訓練可是去比賽的時候裁判還是吹哨"},{"start":23253.718,"end":23278.021,"text":"這部分我們已經在執行,跟主席講了。如果給我一些相關的細節好不好,那我可以改組決議。好,謝謝,謝謝委員。好,謝謝第4案也改組決議。那我們現在是不是就處理那個動結數,剛剛這邊有委員希望趙烈覺得運科中心表現得很好,執行長又報告的有說服力。好,這邊都同意,洪孟開委員。很感動,很感動,不是不是,很感動,大家都感動。"},{"start":23279.503,"end":23298.542,"text":"趙烈也好、凍結也好我相信大家初衷都是希望我們運動更好啦那個剛剛出國考察的部分你這樣講我想我要支持啦但是我這凍結不要說凍結25%啦凍結250萬啦好不好那你出國回來的報告特別要讓我們講得很好為什麼還要凍250萬凍結200萬就我要看你的報告啊"},{"start":23302.064,"end":23321.195,"text":"主決議也可以看報告不是不是不是稍微我很佩服的是我們都想要做好英國我同意我剛我就講了英國2004年的這部分2012年的奧運確實它是近幾年來奧運辦得不錯的地方這我完全理解卡達的部分你自己看你的說明"},{"start":23322.657,"end":23333.39,"text":"你們的說明完全沒有提到剛剛執行長講的什麼醫學中心啊你的說明是說你要去卡達看培養世界級運動員啊我都很想本來很想問說來拜託講兩個卡達世界級運動員他剛剛說醫學醫學沒錯我現在講的是"},{"start":23340.598,"end":23368.448,"text":"你的報告裡面嘛你的報告裡面寫的是培養世界級運動員所以我才會為什麼一直爭結就是說那不然你告訴我卡達世界級運動員現在講兩個來聽聽那你剛剛還好我跟你解釋說明的機會你說你要去看醫學中心好那我覺得是說如果說要去看這個相關醫學中心很好我希望趕快取經取經回來之後讓我們國內有更提升的部分如同我們"},{"start":23369.987,"end":23391.347,"text":"職棒球員選手他去冬季去那個美國的那些訓練基地回來之後就帶到很多觀念嘛所以我提案我本來是凍結25%就不要凍結那麼多但凍結250萬好不好那可以整目來去做出因為總支出一億六千多萬我想250萬也不會影響到這個部分但我真的期待我們可以做好謝謝"},{"start":23393.324,"end":23415.297,"text":"林依菁委員要發言我是想跟那個侯孟楷委員溝通一下不是,因為他剛開始,他去年才開始營運而且今年我們的世界十二強,我們都很愛棒球運科中心發揮關鍵的力量,這你很清楚所以我想說,我們如果不要動肇練,要給他們鼓勵,因為去年才動50萬"},{"start":23418.065,"end":23426.53,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":23439.116,"end":23462.034,"text":"對,很多人都改組決議了不是改組決議就是支持,沒改組決議就不是支持對啊,因為你剛說5%我只是跟你回應說我不是5%,我是改組決議所以不要援引我的部分大家委員能不能,我實在很實在話講我覺得在這一屆裡面可能是大家的這個互相接觸的時間比較多"},{"start":23463.772,"end":23477.907,"text":"所以說大家真的是難免會有一些討論我其實我坐在這邊坐一整天我都很耐著性質因為我覺得說我們在當人民的把關者我們是要對的是行政部門那我一直就說我沒有反對"},{"start":23478.928,"end":23506.55,"text":"那我也希望是說行政部門告訴我們你要做什麼那你的說明裡面就沒有很清楚我已經給你兩次說明機會第一次到我辦公室的時候我就有提出一樣的問題英國卡達跟新加坡你們要看什麼沒有講到醫學中心第二次我看到你的書面說明也沒有講到醫學中心到剛剛終於執行長講醫學中心那如果說你第一次來我辦公室就講說你要看醫學中心的話我就可以理解啊"},{"start":23507.51,"end":23535.785,"text":"那是不是從上到下其實都沒有那麼的清楚那我現在我也就很直接的講我沒有執著我只是希望是說能夠鼓勵我們運科中心能夠越做越好我們讓署長說明一下好不好署長是不是要說明一下這樣有沒有自愛難行之處巴委員我想這個部分我們是不是能夠因為剛開始嘛我們當然變動凍結這部分我們是尊重委員啦那是不是請委員再給我們多點鼓勵啦"},{"start":23538.188,"end":23538.208,"text":"委員會議"},{"start":23562.45,"end":23586.51,"text":"處長答應了我們就不浪費時間了那個動200萬書面報告後解凍拜託出國報告我一定要求要看詳細完整的出國報告在書面報告那以下改成主決議第一案、第二案、第四案、第五案、第七案那還有原本的主決議第九案文字修正後通過第十案、十一案後配合辦理"},{"start":23587.686,"end":23605.652,"text":"遵照辦理財委抱歉第9案我的文字修正在哪邊我不知道我以為教育部跟你們溝通了沒有內文字修正沒關係沒有到你沒看沒簽名就不會過關好不好是啊那個第9案體育署這邊是誰要給黃鳳凱委員的第9案主決議"},{"start":23610.25,"end":23624.575,"text":"沒關係如果今天上會前有異動都可以再變動好不好那我們就先這樣了等一下我們必須要休息10分鐘之後我們先讓清發署跟大學校長很多在這邊排隊等"},{"start":23626.854,"end":23639.522,"text":"我們基金之後再一起處理你們其他的人可以先走就留下兩三位可以說明的就好了我知道啊知道因為大學校長也等很久了好嗎我們休息10分鐘之後繼續換場一下"},{"start":23661.549,"end":23665.57,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":23668.524,"end":23694.735,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":23695.175,"end":23701.44,"text":"基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業"},{"start":23717.585,"end":23732.095,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":23739.04,"end":23753.288,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":23763.454,"end":23764.134,"text":"我們尊重委員"},{"start":24244.632,"end":24268.72,"text":"我們現在回到原來這一本38頁清發署的部分那稅出因為委員也不一定要發言如果沒有異議的部分稅出38頁清發署清發署38頁501那個有沒有人要發言羅廷偉委員請"},{"start":24272.432,"end":24292.363,"text":"501501501"},{"start":24294.114,"end":24310.249,"text":"我想七天署還是要再譴責一下在110年4月收到民眾反映審議民主相關活動的講師由台南市政府前副發言人易圈圈疑似涉及對男性學員進行性騷擾已經有相關的陳情"},{"start":24315.134,"end":24331.862,"text":"台少盟也有清查7年總計有16名的少年受害那當然在這個過程當中我們已經有提出這樣的檢舉但是還是沒有落實而且輕忽了這個相關的責任那也沒有啟動調查所以在110年到111年還是由該員繼續擔任這個講師至少三場以上"},{"start":24339.085,"end":24351.123,"text":"我想不僅違背了署內的內部的一個決議也讓我們感到這個是圈契性平法的法紀的一個觀念我想未能及時的來做判決甚至來做一個決斷讓這件事情能夠斷絕這是我們應該要予以譴責的"},{"start":24355.089,"end":24378.287,"text":"好那但是呢我在這邊是要求檢列100萬那凍結1000萬齁那署內有來溝通有後續真的痛定思痛立即檢討改進我還可以接受那我也很擔心會不會還有案件喔那有回覆我112年113年是零案件那我持續列入觀察名單那目前我可以改成主決議"},{"start":24380.011,"end":24407.21,"text":"好 謝謝那501案改成主決議那我們就進入第一幕第一幕有兩案洪孟凱跟萬美玲委員有沒有要發言好在我簡單講一下第一幕的部分其實就看到說我們有這個教育業務志願服務獎勵辦法那是不是今年其實這個部分我覺得獎勵辦法就是一個"},{"start":24408.391,"end":24430.891,"text":"相關的一個鼓勵性質嘛那但是就說有沒有瞭解是說我們每年到底是這個服務的一個部分的一個高低參與的一個項目以及有沒有更精進的一個空間來讓民間響應教育業務志願服務發展的一個部分所以既然8年都沒有做檢討當然那就沒有修正嘛"},{"start":24431.351,"end":24455.698,"text":"那我覺得說要比較精進的是不是能夠來告訴我們是說有沒有願意去針對這個部分來做一個檢討,因為8年也到了一個circle了,那我覺得應該也可以再做一個啟動檢討。以上,謝謝。好,謝謝萬美玲委員。好,謝謝。我的503案完全針對預算,那我們看到在這筆一般行政業務費,那今年是編201萬,金額是不大,但是沒有說明清楚,"},{"start":24456.178,"end":24463.14,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":24473.663,"end":24478.765,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":24502.809,"end":24504.11,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":24521.92,"end":24534.534,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":24540.08,"end":24562.943,"text":"微服部修法之後到目前為止就是我們沒有再進一步收到其他的相關建議但是我們也希望說在相關的一個鼓勵部分能夠有更多的人員跟單位投入所以這邊我們會再持續的推廣那503位委員特別關心到我們資訊設備部分那這個部分因為"},{"start":24563.524,"end":24589.258,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":24589.338,"end":24616.131,"text":"好 謝謝說明齁那這邊我們委員是要照列還是我們委員要主張要動好 如你信不可以把它列出來讓我知道一下那我這個部分看孟凱應該那這樣子我們就第一幕就合併動結100萬啦好不好那就請我們這兩岸的部分就都要加強來辦理那個好 那個次長說OK齁那我們就第一幕動100萬書面報告後解動"},{"start":24619.99,"end":24621.611,"text":"張雅玲、陳秀寶、陳培余、洪孟楷"},{"start":24642.262,"end":24642.843,"text":"五百一十三案青年海外圓夢計劃"},{"start":24659.677,"end":24675.184,"text":"而受的意見也必須要被收納進來在未來的相關檢章或是計劃的修改所以請青年署待會兒說明一下那如果可以清楚說明的話呢我不會堅持這個案子我可以平安處理謝謝好謝謝那陳秀寶委員"},{"start":24677.885,"end":24686.531,"text":"現在主席在這一幕裡面我的案子是第522案主要是媒體有報導我們青發署這邊有一個青年海外圓夢計畫就是用來推廣青年在海外學習以及體驗但這個媒體這個報導之後呢其實相關的計畫辦法都沒有公佈到底有沒有實質的計畫具體的辦法希望青年"},{"start":24703.844,"end":24726.602,"text":"署這邊你們趕快上網公佈相關的這些申請的辦法讓有需要有意願要去申請的這些年輕人可以知道說他們該怎麼做這些相關的來準備所以這個案子我可以不堅持我該主決議但我會希望你們這邊盡快把相關的這些辦法來公告以上"},{"start":24729.904,"end":24742.951,"text":"兩位委員都說過了我只要補充說明關於青年海外圓夢計畫我認為這件事情應該不會只有青年署的業務因為我們所有青年到了海外他們會有各式各樣的議題其實可能是需要協助的"},{"start":24743.251,"end":24756.041,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學校院教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成"},{"start":24773.894,"end":24780.139,"text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員好感謝本席在這第二幕有504、509、512、515、516跟521我綜合來做一個說明首先504的一個部分"},{"start":24787.891,"end":24812.523,"text":"現在有這個多元職場的體驗業務透過RICH的職場體驗網的一個機制但我們現在看到是說是不是在非營利組織的提案徵求參與青年在先那才有這個成功配對的部分那反而有這個受限的一個職場體驗的選擇所以等一下請青年署這邊再說明說能不能有加大或是說有更彈性的一個調整的空間"},{"start":24813.644,"end":24840.574,"text":"五零九是在青年社會參與的預算項目反而比前一年還要縮編預算規模來得少那是不是也說明一下是以往編的都用不完還是說我們青年公眾參與確實有不容易推動的地方否則為什麼會這個青年公共參與業務我想是大家都會支持的但反而預算規模減少了那五一二"},{"start":24841.494,"end":24871.074,"text":"培養地方創生人才培育的部分其實我們也很樂見但是從114年到117年的一個跨年度的專案我們沒有看到是說在疫情過後有數量的一個參與有數量的一個增加或者是說量能的一個提升照理講最低潮的時候應該是疫情的那個時候嘛那現在既然疫情已經趨緩了應該我們這個業務可以每年有成長曲線逐步的往上嘛所以這個部分也請等一下說明喔"},{"start":24872.134,"end":24894.907,"text":"還有515的部分,剛剛幾位委員都有提到這國際體驗學習那回臺之後的成效分享就是說我們不要說是這種照本宣科或者說官樣文章可是看一下網路上如果說真的有一些青年到世界各國去做體驗交流他拍的Vlog,他拍的Youtube的影片"},{"start":24895.507,"end":24918.802,"text":"等等的可能它的那個宣傳效果見聞分享都比我們目前官方做的來的活潑那我們有沒有更能夠既然政府都已經有預算給予了那出去都看了那回來怎麼樣能夠讓我們在地的青年能夠更加深這個國際體驗的一個見聞分享的部分這要請青年署這邊來努力那以及"},{"start":24919.682,"end":24934.898,"text":"五一六部分其實也是類似就是說這個勞動部的一個相關的一個部分但是到目前為止好像還沒有一個很明確的一個狀況也請等一下一起再做說明好不好以上謝謝好謝謝那個萬美玲委員有沒有要發言"},{"start":24941.834,"end":24946.881,"text":"五零六、五零七、五一一、五一七、五一九五零六是針對預算,現在預算1370萬"},{"start":24954.671,"end":24982.886,"text":"一百一十三年的時候其實我們編列的是八百六十萬其實也是大幅增加那這個大幅增加沒有關係該給的預算其實都要可是我們並沒有詳細的去說明你這個所謂的七年職場體驗網的維運是怎麼做然後而且我們上網去看以後發現你這個電子報這一欄三個月都沒有更新了所以這層網頁資訊的維護還是需要再加強的啦所以這部分的話我希望等一下可以做一個說明要不然也一樣是要去凍結"},{"start":24984.166,"end":25007.708,"text":"五一一案也是針對預算預算在7年公共參與底下有一個物品371萬那這個部分也是之前大概也是在91萬左右那你現在增加這個幅度看起來總金額不大可是增加幅度高達307%一樣沒有做說明所以希望待會能夠再做一個詳細的解說"},{"start":25010.29,"end":25012.871,"text":"五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查五、繼續審查"},{"start":25030.783,"end":25055.168,"text":"不過我們看到111年申請人數大幅的下降由原來110年的6596人111年的5328人一直往下然後110年來到此剩下3000人所以不太沒有看到任何成效而且看起來人數是一直往下的所以我想這個有必要再說明一下這麼大的一個計畫可是成效不漲那最後一個"},{"start":25056.058,"end":25066.385,"text":"五一九二也是剛才我們很多委員所關心的那這個是一個青年海外圓夢計劃那這個計劃呢其實總經費是100億喔總經費是100億那預計要在114年你們預先要先編10億但是預計在115年到117年的時候你整個總經費高達了100億好我覺得要為這個青年學子"},{"start":25080.436,"end":25104.156,"text":"給他們更多的支持其實這個錢都不算多但是重點就是到現在為止這麼大的一個計畫沒有詳細的這個計畫內容跟執行的辦法而且呢我有看到青年署其實現在還有另外一個海外志工計畫跟青年撞油體驗的學習計畫這也都是我們為這些青年朋友們不管他們到海外服務啦或是相關的體驗學習啊所提供的機會喔"},{"start":25106.998,"end":25130.269,"text":"這兩個計畫其實已經在做了有沒有跌床架屋然後目標群是不是一樣的然後條件是不是也一樣的那如果都是一樣的為什麼要有一個新的圓夢計畫出來那如果說前面那兩個是執行的不好的那又何以這個新的圓夢計畫會來就是你有信心跟把握可以做然後最後一點這個我真的要提一下那今天早上行政院的會議"},{"start":25131.389,"end":25133.13,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管"},{"start":25146.158,"end":25158.906,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國"},{"start":25162.328,"end":25176.12,"text":"預算根本還在審查中有很多的內容我們還不了解早上就這樣公告了我不了解這是逼著我們非要同意這個預算在不清楚不用審查的情況之下閉著眼睛就要同意嗎我覺得這是不可以的所以我想這個圓夢計畫"},{"start":25178.382,"end":25199.196,"text":"只要對年輕人好我們支持可是必須說清楚講明白內容、細節還有跟前面那兩個計畫這個不同的點在什麼地方那你前面做的又是為什麼有沒有再繼續那這是不是跌床駕屋那最後我要再說一次真的要尊重委員會的審查我們真的沒有審查之前我不明白為什麼早上行政院要做這樣的公告"},{"start":25200.529,"end":25205.151,"text":"青髮署調查全國學生會概況發現124所學校有42所存部硬件由學校保管或與學校共同保管"},{"start":25218.018,"end":25221.26,"text":"協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助協助"},{"start":25238.448,"end":25259.991,"text":"至少應該要跟教育部其他高教師合作是不是能夠用評鑑或別的方式讓學校也尊重學生會的財務自主那這個部分為了支持清法署我跟大家小並動如果大家都不並動我就改組決議好嗎以上那是不是請清法署說明"},{"start":25262.634,"end":25265.337,"text":"海外援盟基金 海外援盟基金"},{"start":25281.756,"end":25291.116,"text":"最常被一直被行政院跟這個關心這個的這個計畫那這個計畫我想先說明一下就是說第一個就是說他跟這個"},{"start":25292.824,"end":25299.767,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":25319.889,"end":25344.141,"text":"海外志工現在一年只有100對,然後一對的預算只有20萬,6到10個人。所以他能夠做事情是時間規模上還有時間上都沒有辦法像海外圓夢這樣可以到,海外圓夢的資助的時間長度可以從…你說海外圓夢計畫是針對個人可以申請是這樣意思嗎?然後我們海外志工計畫是一對一對?"},{"start":25345.95,"end":25358.92,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":25374.833,"end":25385.88,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":25401.926,"end":25417.323,"text":"可能那個還不是細節是不是他應該是整體的政策啦他應該不是說元旦就要那是重大政策吧應該不是說"},{"start":25419.572,"end":25434.982,"text":"因為我們檢張要比較萬全所以我們目前檢張還在辦焦點座談收集各界的意見然後這個計畫我想目前這個因為青年署我也必須說這青年署真的非常認真因為目前是"},{"start":25435.922,"end":25455.3,"text":"行政院是要求各個部會提出一方面是兩個路線一個是青年人帶著這個夢想來我們來幫他孵化成一個比較有意義的計畫要再支持他另外一條路線是由部會來開拓出在國外的一些可能的機會那目前已經開拓出了576個名額的機會"},{"start":25457.982,"end":25473.635,"text":"其中青年署自己開發出來的集會就546個這些都是剛才委員提到說不是說年輕人出國就把它丟包繼續做沒有就是說怎麼樣讓他出國的時候這個地方也要能夠被照顧到"},{"start":25474.435,"end":25477.277,"text":"教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度"},{"start":25501.637,"end":25526.674,"text":"實際資助他的金額是以他實際上這個計畫需要的這個移動或是這個不管是機票或是說他的生活費用是多少這就是我們就是審查機制我們是如果是我們是交給外省那如果是部會的話是譬如說外交部開拓出來的這個機會的話是外交部跟委員一起來審這件事情因為部會也要覺得說這個年輕人是適合的年輕人因為"},{"start":25528.973,"end":25548.661,"text":"因為我們行政院有要求每個部會都比如說環保、國際上一些重要的一些國際的組織是跟環境部跟他本來就有關係的那他來兩邊來商討出一些那我們這些年輕人送過去那邊我們可以做一些什麼事情讓他們可以得到一些比較深刻的那所以到底是年輕人來申請還是我們要送年輕人出去?該講兩種路線 兩個路線"},{"start":25550.902,"end":25574.123,"text":"一個是年輕人帶著自己的夢想來我們找外部委員當他的coach一起把他的計畫孵化出來等到孵化到我們覺得看起來像樣了才給他金粉這是一條路另外一條路是比如說我們年輕人知道說哪個國際組織很重要我想要去比如說那個COP或是哪些國際的一些氣候邊緣組織很重要但是以他自己要去跟人家接觸很困難"},{"start":25575.004,"end":25585.152,"text":"這個是由部會幫他開拓出機會出來,就部會比如環境部跟國際上哪一些重要的這個比如聯合國或哪邊的組織本來就有connection的,那幫他開拓出機會。"},{"start":25586.81,"end":25598.94,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":25608.987,"end":25633.706,"text":"國際上也很重要的組織或是其他國家的政府這只有我們的政府的單位才有那個條件跟他們談那我們就談好了一些大概目前談好576名的公告在網站上那對這個有興趣的年輕人都可以來申請然後這個來申請的時候我們的部會跟外省委員會一起來面試然後選說你是可以代表我們臺灣去跟那個國際的這個哪個組織所以我們有兩條路線"},{"start":25636.548,"end":25638.352,"text":"是不是檢商出來之後再讓委員們參考好嗎?當然當然當然那個葛如君委員"},{"start":25645.176,"end":25665.971,"text":"謝謝主席本席也有在第508跟518這邊有提案青年署我知道青年發展工作真的非常的重要過去也有很多跟青年署的合作也都知道做得非常的努力也很用心我想第508案是青年基本法"},{"start":25666.952,"end":25690.493,"text":"本席自己也有提案所以不是在現在才開始討論是想要請教一下就是剛剛不知道有沒有委員問過說明確的回應什麼時候會有願版這是這麼簡單而已那第5018案跟剛剛大家所提的是幾乎一致的就是說今年海外圓夢的計畫大家都非常關注因為金額很高那我之前在"},{"start":25692.795,"end":25714.429,"text":"對談、質詢的時候我們的立場都是支持但是會需要關注執行的方式你們有沒有足夠的人力、量能其他部會會不會願意配合等等那其實今天我還有另外一個擔憂就是這個計畫在推廣的這個規劃的這個過程裡面有很多股力量有很多股力量舉個例子"},{"start":25715.99,"end":25726.297,"text":"剛剛葉次長說這個計劃因為我們還在審預算所以我們可能會1月23號公佈但是今天行政院12月26號的公報就已經說了這個首頁2025年元月起實施之重大政策及匯民的措施都知道了是不是"},{"start":25738.826,"end":25747.287,"text":"所以這個時程上面我覺得還是要稍微一致啦那這個麻煩能不能更加如果有還有不清楚的地方也希望可以補充謝謝"},{"start":25750.138,"end":25777.088,"text":"委員報告這個是元旦起的重大政策啦我想這個行政院的意思大概也不是說就是好像就說這個這個這個強壓著大家不是啦我想這畢竟也是因為青年們對這個政策一直很關心一直來問然後我想說其實說這個我想行政院就是早點讓大家知道說1月這個預期到1月開始做這個事情那我們大概是1月20幾1月23號的時候我們會把簡章公佈目前"},{"start":25778.188,"end":25779.89,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":25795.803,"end":25798.265,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":25825.843,"end":25826.163,"text":"三個月前"},{"start":25856.123,"end":25877.707,"text":"剪章提到剪章跟文件的準備AI的使用的限制或條件務必要考量進去不然變成說有付200塊美金的寫出來的剪章跟神一樣沒有錢的原夢不了好不好這個可以之後再來討論那我就是提出做個記錄謝謝那是不是陳雪玉署長也簡要說明好嗎我們就來討論這個"},{"start":25882.748,"end":25892.613,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第"},{"start":25909.401,"end":25936.013,"text":"自立公讀的自立青年的這些區塊所以我們那個緣額事實上都在增加就是從650個緣額增加到明年度增加到750個那也增加到那個企業的間隙所以這個部分我們都會努力努力來讓青年有更多的體驗那另外一個部分的話就是在509案委員也關心到這個"},{"start":25940.39,"end":25944.532,"text":"第12屆第13屆基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":25962.521,"end":25987.09,"text":"另外一個部分委員也關心到紅委員關心到我們512就是有關七年參與地方創設的這個部分那七年參與地方創設因為之前是那個前瞻計畫的預算那所以那個部分每年大概只有之前每年只有4000萬所以我們得量就是比較受限那明年度開始我們這每年會"},{"start":25988.21,"end":26003.774,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管27所國立大學教育部主管28所國立大學教育部主管29所國立大學教育部主管30所國立大學教育部主管31所國立大學教育部主管32所國立大學教育部主管33所國立大學教育部主管34所國立大學教育部主管35所國立大學教育部主管36所國立大學教育部主管37所國立大學教育部主管38所國立大學教育部主管39所國立大學教育部主管40所國立大學教育部主管41所國立大學教育部主管42所國立大學教育部主管42所國立大學教育部主管43所國立"},{"start":26017.198,"end":26029.163,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":26041.869,"end":26042.31,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":26060.73,"end":26084.706,"text":"參與的跟勞動部我們一起來合作但是在今年度開始就是我們也在朝後續的一個轉型規劃那當然這個部分是有受到少子化影響不過這個整個參與青年儲蓄專案的一個退出率事實上逐年都在下降參與過的青年朋友大概也都八九成是非常滿意的部分那再來萬委員這邊也關心到我們在506案"},{"start":26088.769,"end":26098.759,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":26104.906,"end":26113.532,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":26131.434,"end":26141.147,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第12屆第2會期教育及文化委員會主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":26146.574,"end":26165.118,"text":"我補充一下我們今年度的部分是有6折那因為青年朋友在暑期的時候是比較多職場體驗的所以我們有5折是集中在4到8月那委員剛好看到11月是我們的最後一折那我們已經這個部分因為謝謝委員的指點我們明年會改成月報就是每個月都會發一折這個部分做說明 謝謝"},{"start":26170.56,"end":26197.488,"text":"還有嗎?還有,就是剛才那個委員有關心到這個青年儲蓄專案的部分這個部分在之前那個次長也有跟委員這邊來做說明那我這邊在特別強調那個跟范瑩委員有關心到的這個510案學生會的部分那學生會這個部分我們已經有跟高教師技師特別協調了我們有一個棍子就是會增加這個學生資質加分項目進去"},{"start":26198.288,"end":26210.632,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第"},{"start":26222.862,"end":26245.484,"text":"對,青年基本法部分,那個關心的這個部分我們已經並同我們的青年發展政策白皮書一起研議,然後也廣真意見所以我們希望說在明年度的下個會期有一個院版出來,然後一起討論明年度下會期,好,那我們是不是一起處理這個第二幕青年發展工作那大家是要趙烈還是要小棟這樣"},{"start":26248.953,"end":26261.267,"text":"林益菁委員還是萬美林委你們有沒有提議?好 謝謝喔我來提一下這一幕其實18億就一整幕18億看起來不是很多但是呢我覺得我就是針對七年海外圓夢計畫"},{"start":26262.748,"end":26272.135,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":26288.84,"end":26308.012,"text":"最重要的就是剛剛講的我們在審查委員怎麼審查因為呢這個計畫現在先10億之後是100億那孩子們送上來的計畫到底可不可行我們不是要去嚴格審查他而是我們要幫他把關然後幫他做一個修正讓他出國去以後可以得到他人生我們想要給他的體驗嘛 對不對"},{"start":26309.253,"end":26311.916,"text":"審查委員的基金、教育部主管的基金、教育部主管的基金、教育部主管的基金、教育部主管"},{"start":26329.471,"end":26330.432,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47"},{"start":26348.752,"end":26370.179,"text":"我們現在先凍結1億那我們來看明年一整年邊做邊檢討然後看一下成效怎麼樣那等到5、6月的時候假設我們真的是做得很棒5、6月我們就再解凍那我們下半年度又可以再繼續申請了我覺得這樣會比較好一點那次長凍1億會不會對你們造成什麼影響部長委員這個1億齁真的有點多"},{"start":26371.599,"end":26392.788,"text":"我先跟你講委員會報告的事情就是說那個因為大家可能有個誤會啦這個計畫跟外面民間的原報計畫最大的差別我講這是我們政府這次做最重要的一件事情是民間的計畫主要就是你拿了計畫來民間的像是安利、Johnny Walker這種原報你拿計畫出來審查做簡報然後決定誰得獎"},{"start":26395.149,"end":26395.509,"text":"教育部主管"},{"start":26410.282,"end":26417.228,"text":"中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":26440.126,"end":26465.107,"text":"所以這樣子的利益我是支持的可是正因為我們是希望讓這些孩子有這個機會去體驗所以我剛剛才在講那你要孵化你的這個所謂的協助他孵化這個人員跟審查人員就很重要但你這些機制到目前為止完全沒有出來這個就是業界的相關的領域的專家不是說他今天想要做一件事情我們就隨便找一個教授來不是就是一定是個專家或是以前有這樣類似經驗的前輩帶著他所以這個我想"},{"start":26469.331,"end":26486.49,"text":"我可不可以再請教一下市長這是要什麼樣相關的經驗是算是這個的前輩可以讓我了解一下比如他今天如果他這個孩子他想要做的是一些比如國際志工然後這方面的經驗那我們就會找有這個國際志工的經驗的之前的可能這個前輩"},{"start":26487.671,"end":26490.272,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":26514.517,"end":26514.977,"text":"教育部主管"},{"start":26531.738,"end":26556.319,"text":"委員是不是給一千萬啦一千萬因為台灣講這個青年工作齁這個才10億而已然後就動一億那像我們今年這個我們跟我們其他的這個預算比起來這是動非常非常多我覺得這個其實是對青年政策方這個是因為剛剛本來林一景委員只有想要動一百萬齁現在一千萬已經算是很大的讓步可以動一千萬超過九億嗎"},{"start":26558.135,"end":26568.361,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":26576.172,"end":26588.576,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立"},{"start":26600.339,"end":26625.497,"text":"主席介入一下因為今天如果這個動議感覺教育委員並不支持這個計劃嗎?因為他還在進行中...對不起 昭緯 這個我嚴正抗議喔沒有沒有 我很少...我不想講 都想講話我講一下好不好我真的五年在教育文化委員會我沒有這麼嚴正抗議過我覺得這怎麼會是這樣子就叫做不支持那這樣我真的非常嚴正抗議昭緯我覺得這個事情你要收回去剛剛說的話"},{"start":26626.707,"end":26628.429,"text":"一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、繼續審查一、"},{"start":26646.448,"end":26672.428,"text":"好了,動議千萬,你們意思到了,然後之後想要專案報告都可以提要一個專案報告。那但是對不起,就是因為我一直很尊重趙偉,但趙偉你一定要把剛剛的話說清楚。剛剛收回好嗎?對,你收回,你收回什麼?收回。啊?收回了什麼?收回啦。收回我說這樣子動議代表說我們不支持這個計畫,好嗎?給外界的訊息。對,我覺得這一定要講明白,因為我們在這裡只要對案子有意見就叫做不支持。這帽子扣得太大了。我們非常支持年輕人這樣的計畫。是。謝謝委員。收回了。"},{"start":26677.01,"end":26684.052,"text":"市長也這麼誠懇在講東一千萬我可以接受但是一定要專案報告東一千萬專案報告後解凍我們這邊510、522改成主決議原本主決議523案是修正文字後通過"},{"start":26706.488,"end":26712.653,"text":"所以哪一個案子?501跟523是一樣的案子該主決議喔501跟523改523本來就是主決議阿對對對523要撤案是不是?"},{"start":26728.09,"end":26756.553,"text":"五二三案要撤案嗎?我們青年發展工作506案改組決議我們進入國家圖書館大家如果沒有特別的意見我們就直接討論金額因為校長已經等很久了他們中午就來了第一幕沒有委員特別要發言我們是不是就照列"},{"start":26759.303,"end":26761.124,"text":"主決意528、529也是照案通過"},{"start":26770.493,"end":26771.594,"text":"國立公共資訊圖書館"},{"start":26793.662,"end":26814.093,"text":"國立教育廣播電台稅出部分第二幕台務業務活動沒有異議的話就照列國家教育研究院稅出部分第一幕有三案沒有異議的話就照列"},{"start":26815.114,"end":26843.286,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47年度教育部主管47"},{"start":26845.613,"end":26873.206,"text":"現在是國家教育研究院對不對第一幕第一幕一般行政好我535、536我照列可以但我要要求改組決議好不好好535、536改組決議535、536改組決議預算照列好那再來第二幕喔538到549如果沒有委員有特別的意見好那個葛國均委員"},{"start":26874.817,"end":26901.409,"text":"謝謝主席我這邊有提案第541案那是關於國家教育研究院現在正在進行108課綱的調整那本席相當關心未來的這個我們整個世代都在轉換有數位有AI那我們剛剛有提過我們現在是叫數位素養但是從歐盟到美國都在講數位公民的素養裡面有非常多的向度那還有數位霸凌的預防等等"},{"start":26901.869,"end":26926.252,"text":"那既然是教育研究院應該理應提出前瞻的超前的研究不要一直在追趕尤其臺灣又是創造科技的地方所以這個預算的編列才會有意義所以希望能夠請院長說明在中小學的階段是不是能夠對於數位教育能夠有更多的超前部署而不是一直在汪洋補牢否則我們覺得這樣的預算的編列也是變得沒有足夠的效益謝謝"},{"start":26927.233,"end":26954.561,"text":"好 那是不是請院長說明一下好 那個羅廷文委員好 我想這個葛委員所提到這個部分我們也很關切那在這個部分上我們不只是希望待會能夠回答葛委員的一個問題在108課綱的部分其實很多家長團體對於108課綱有沒有再更有一步的精進能夠有一個具體的座談我想這個當時還有一度我們在選區還有遇到家長一直說有沒有118課綱"},{"start":26956.421,"end":26977.379,"text":"有這樣子的一個說法我們都滿頭問號結果部長跟我們講沒有118課綱是108好都沒有關係名稱不重要重要的是能不能多辦幾場跟地方的一個座談會家長團體的座談會這部分我也希望一併來回答國家教育研究院作為這麼前瞻的重要性我希望也要跟地方來做一個連結"},{"start":26979.346,"end":26980.366,"text":"萬美玲委員請院長說明"},{"start":27004.396,"end":27026.527,"text":"人工智慧發展我們在中小學的相關課程已經有規劃了但是小學的部分我們還在研發當中因為這個防偽、深偽的防霸令的部分我們已經積極的在規劃裡面謝謝委員的提醒跟汪委員說我們資料準備好了我們會馬上送過來謝謝"},{"start":27030.029,"end":27033.551,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":27059.845,"end":27072.249,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":27086.074,"end":27105.01,"text":"數位資訊教育、數位素養這裡邊我們應該把與時俱運把這些它都是一個科技能力所以這個基本上跟課綱是無關的沒有沒有我現在呼應叫那個羅廷文委員他是要開公聽會我只是要澄清一下他不要現在馬上告訴我要不要去改"},{"start":27105.47,"end":27133.438,"text":"通過公聽會你可以聽基層老師他們在運作部分通過公聽會你可以透過家長他們在這個地方其實會有很多的意見所以現在不應該來告訴我們要不要改或是不改你應該是呼應他在公聽會一連串的部分因為畢竟你已經實行6年了嘛你還是要有一些滾動式的一個修正好不好我現在只要澄清這一件事情就廣聽這個老師家長的一些意見我想那是對我們政策滾動式修正非常重要的一個地方對嘛所以就是他呼應他嘛要有一個主決或怎麼樣公聽會的方法嘛好不好"},{"start":27137.168,"end":27160.6,"text":"那個葉元智委員克綱這個事情是這樣其實我們在教育文化委員會也有開過公聽會那時候也有非常多的學生專家那克綱每一次就是大家講了一大堆覺得可以更好的地方但是就是不動如山我覺得應該這個應該是要針對克綱針對學生家長的意見要做調整不是說每次只是聽大家意見就只有聽而已"},{"start":27161.519,"end":27176.914,"text":"只有聽,就真的就只有聽,然後沒有任何動作,我覺得這是被大家最詬病的地方,所以一定要提出一個檢討的方向,然後要具體執行來落實,這個才是關鍵的。好,那我們還是回到那個國研院齁,那個林倩琪委員。"},{"start":27178.095,"end":27180.896,"text":"徐鑫委員提出五四二案,針對理工人才的部分,102課綱首屆新生到大學,我們明顯發現跟同期的"},{"start":27196.681,"end":27223.944,"text":"能夠因應這些課程的比例學生那個程度相對變低所以他這邊有提出來說希望在108課綱裡面去做一些檢討有關於這個相關的這個課程為什麼會第一屆入學之後能夠就是整個程度大家普遍覺得好像跟以前來講差很多最主要是這樣子那這一案呢由於在徐委員的同意下我們就改組決議好"},{"start":27225.426,"end":27225.446,"text":"這案該組決議"},{"start":27235.427,"end":27252.824,"text":"主席謝謝本期在這邊有540、543、545、546、548、549讓我綜合來做幾個部分的一個要求請等一下再做說明在這個540的一個部分行政業務跟雜項費用其實預算數編的蠻籠統的因為其實裡面"},{"start":27256.568,"end":27277.355,"text":"包括我們了解說出席費、差旅費、印刷費等相關的費用其實全都在裡面但是沒有進一步把預算金額給揭露那應該要有檢討的一個空間那另外在五、四、三、二、好"},{"start":27279.997,"end":27303.105,"text":"我幾個部分就一起講啦那個愛學網愛學網在548的這個愛學網的一個營運管理的部分其實目前使用率還是偏低的其實我覺得都是這樣子就我們有很多東西其實都是做做了之後那有沒有成效或說有沒有它的實質效益其實我們看沒有辦法說看很明確因為像愛學網這上面影片"},{"start":27304.195,"end":27304.695,"text":"獲得獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":27326.38,"end":27343.47,"text":"教育能力549的一個部分教育能力的培訓業務那目前成果到底為何各類班級有沒有揭露歷來半壘的成效跟業務統計這部分是不是也等一下再一併做個說明以上 謝謝好 是不是請林崇義院長簡要說明"},{"start":27345.223,"end":27353.372,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管274年度教育部主管"},{"start":27368.448,"end":27394.068,"text":"有一個是委員掌握非常精準的部分,也就是研究人員配置的妥適性的部分。國教院的業務非常多,包括資料庫的建置、語樂庫的建置、課綱、課程的審查等等,政策的智庫跟教學資源的累積,所以研究人力的種類非常多。"},{"start":27395.49,"end":27416.449,"text":"這個時候如何怎樣配置呢是我們持續要進行的部分跟委員做報告那我們是不是一起來處理一下大家是要照列還是要並動委員表達一下意見好嗎這邊有委員說要照列"},{"start":27420.099,"end":27445.509,"text":"因為剛剛真的是講到課綱這個我們真的是非常重視那也希望剛剛有回應說要有來研議辦理座談會那各縣市怎麼分幾場是不是講清楚說明白我們再來討論不然你直接提個數字因為今天在溝通下去時間不夠了動個100萬然後之後那個好嗎"},{"start":27449.66,"end":27455.026,"text":"國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":27465.456,"end":27492.475,"text":"那因為部長已經正式宣告其實沒有新的課綱所以如果在這個前提下是不是我們可以動100萬或50萬那但是我們請國教院提出相關的書面規劃報告因為我相信羅委員他在選區非常多家長或是孩子一定會跟他澄清他們所擔心的事情他們所在意的事情然後他們希望還繼續在原課綱或是延伸的課綱那是不是可以用這個方法不知道這樣建議主席可不可以採納所以陳培委員是希望說動50萬是不是"},{"start":27494.973,"end":27504.683,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":27517.591,"end":27544.458,"text":"五分之一是葛委員提出的那我希望有人說五十萬那有一個具體的報告那我覺得這可不可以專案報告這課綱真的很重要因為已經太多了剛剛已經一個青年圓夢了好嗎對而且這個國研院只是做研究嘛教育研究五十萬然後他如果報告不滿意你就不要解凍好嗎"},{"start":27545.538,"end":27565.271,"text":"那你可以答應我10場座談會嗎?沒有,不好意思,補充一下,座談會不是重點,因為這個座談會開太多了。現在那個大學生自己也有組一個課綱的改進的一個小組,他們也一直在開座談會。關鍵應該是說他們到底要怎麼去,你們到底要怎麼把它落實在實際上課綱的調整,然後在學校。"},{"start":27566.091,"end":27594.763,"text":"這個才是關鍵啊所以如果要報告解凍報告的話應該是要把那個我們現在齁因為不是在討論課綱我們現在討論那個國家就預算我知道我知道我現在是講解凍的條件嘛不要每次我講話你都很喜歡打岔好不好我在講解凍的條件就是說如果要報告不是說只是公聽會而已公聽會你開一千場一樣如果我們不做任何動作一樣嘛所以希望希望具體有解決大家的憂一些擔憂的方案出來"},{"start":27595.583,"end":27623.017,"text":"那書面報告如果不滿意的話,大家可以不要解凍好嗎?譬如說機場你們之後可以再協商,或者議員就議員講場不是重點,因為大家意見不一樣,那我們就鬥50萬,然後...周偉,其實我一直要導致一個觀念,我們今天在野委員或是執政委員其實都一樣是要把關監督政府,我並沒有期待說你給我報告我不滿意再繼續把你鬥,"},{"start":27624.725,"end":27637.4,"text":"要導正這個觀念好不好我不是說今天動50萬然後報告不滿意我就繼續動著我不是喔我幹嘛我希望的是你都把這個預算拿去用執行百分百然後好好的為國家發展"},{"start":27639.364,"end":27659.725,"text":"所以說今天凍結金額一個部分我們絕對不會無地放矢如果我今天凍結五分之一、三分之一那這樣子你沒有辦法做事但我如果說今天凍結是十分之一或二十分之一那你可以做事而你提出來的報告是可以說服我們委員我們讓你解凍趕快再去做"},{"start":27661.089,"end":27675.328,"text":"所以今天凍結不是說凍結少少的然後你給我報告我刻意還要卡你然後我只凍少少不是這樣子好不好我釐清這個觀念所以我具體建議啦這一個第二幕有兩億七千兩億八千萬將近兩億八千萬"},{"start":27678.021,"end":27707.227,"text":"因為真的非常多我自己也有提了五、六個案子那其實剛剛說明了你自己也有提到有一些部分我覺得後續我們可以再細談因為這個不是一時三刻可以解決的那我覺得說這樣子是不是我們第二幕就併動一千萬啦然後明年使得動欸一千萬等於是不到百分之五欸不是那個好院長說聲一下業務非常多來你一千萬沒有辦法做到來不然你你可以給我一個數字"},{"start":27710.916,"end":27718.761,"text":"五百萬書面報告後解凍以下改為主決議我特別要求連羅廷威委員、葉元智委員剛剛所提到的都要一併把它給納入"},{"start":27741.015,"end":27756.379,"text":"書面報告都要有剛剛所有委員的案子539案、542案、547案都改組決議我們這個部分都處理完畢了謝謝林院長剛剛有幾個組決議還沒有處理的國家運動訓練中心"},{"start":27764.966,"end":27768.367,"text":"第五案改為主決議第十案也改為主決議"},{"start":27798.201,"end":27806.964,"text":"那個基金的部分剛剛教育部有報告就是所有委員的案子他們都溝通過都已經全部改成主決議"},{"start":27810.232,"end":27836.2,"text":"大學基金的大家查一下是不是這樣子第一案到第28案那個都已經溝通過改成主決議那個萬美玲委員但是呢我還是要說一下我在這個基金的部分其實我有五個案子分別是針對政大、清大、央大還有海大跟陽明交大那我是因為經過我們溝通之後全部改組決議不過那我要要求"},{"start":27836.84,"end":27842.481,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":27864.64,"end":27877.575,"text":"我針對第7案喔第7案是我的母校成功大學那是因為針對成大的收支長期出現短處的現象那我想成大真的是我們南台灣學術的重鎮"},{"start":27879.757,"end":27907.154,"text":"所以開源節流確實很重要才能穩健整個基金的財務那經過成大校方跟我們說明之後其實才瞭解說實質上的收支其實是有剩餘所以我這個案子也改組決議那期許成大可以持續維持這個校務基金的運作以上OK好那1到28案如果沒有異議的話我們就討論294您欠其委員28"},{"start":27909.301,"end":27912.485,"text":"現在是1到28因為剛剛教育部報告就是都已經溝通過都改成主決議主席謝謝我們是都改成主決議讓很多學校我們也都親自溝通過但幾個學校我還是提醒一下"},{"start":27926.743,"end":27949.431,"text":"謝謝台大這邊有這個誠意在我們講的幾個主題上那因為來溝通的這個同仁也相當有一些專業所以原本可能教育部對不起教育部認為有問題的這個部分其實學校是更專業是可以處理的但是我覺得普遍性的問題就請教育部支持學校所提出來的可以"},{"start":27950.591,"end":27971.645,"text":"來突破一些問題的這個部分我覺得今天最整體的是這樣請教育部支持那臺大部分其實我在內容上我有寫了一些不管是原住民或者是臺大邁向全世界的這個專業大學能夠怎麼做我在這邊寫了但是在溝通的過程當中他們也有把"},{"start":27972.125,"end":27977.747,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":27989.71,"end":28018.621,"text":"基金大學因為很清楚就是說你們在原住民的部分已經做了很久但是我就針對其實也有點普遍性但既然因為你們已經很清楚而且教育部也有核給他們明年的這個專班那我在於原住民族專任師資的部分我覺得普遍性的要求那既然是因為很具體所以我就很清楚的請你們在原住民族的專任師資那某種程度應該要鼓勵跟優先那其實大部分的學校都一樣"},{"start":28019.181,"end":28043.698,"text":"那今天好像海大也是,對不起海大也過來,謝謝海大在原住民的這個部分有幫我們訓練了很多人才雖然不經過原住民的專班但是應該也已經有一些累積了但是海大部分是海洋科學博物館我希望能夠更緊密的連結那因為一個學術的那個空間平台很重要所以我覺得那個海大跟海科館"},{"start":28044.438,"end":28061.808,"text":"海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科學博物館海洋科"},{"start":28067.711,"end":28095.162,"text":"那雖然他投資你們在原住民的不是只有原住民就體操人才但是你們也擔負東部海洋教育的重要的一個任務所以希望這個區塊未來能夠跟教育部還有體育署這邊更緊密的連結那我想一起來推動這一個主軸另外正好你們在前兩天前兩個禮拜在有關於護理性的這個專班護理人員的專班你們已經有一些開展"},{"start":28096.002,"end":28121.59,"text":"期待未來在原住民的部分我想這是非常直接連結的原住民在護理人員的比例上是非常高的那不好意思高師大對不起高師大校長抱歉那個我覺得你們在不好意思這個也請教育部了解一下因為我一個概念上就是我們一直不希望原住民是只有博物館裡面的展示當然現在已經有一些超越了但是他們提出來一個課程"},{"start":28122.29,"end":28141.23,"text":"我覺得應該有些鼓勵比如說我們現在雖然國家政策是在長照日照方面是一個重點但是我們也希望原住民在長照日照產業裡面也有一些產業相關的人才那個概念跟他作為一個照顧者那我們也更期待在資本生活裡面那也有一個主軸"},{"start":28142.672,"end":28167.252,"text":"我這邊大概其實我們在之前的那個委員會裡面我有提到那跟你們談的是確認每一個區塊我的理解是對的那我現在講的就很直接也請部裡面有一些東西可以應該要再更支持那學校也請你們把我剛才講的其實對一些學校是通案那請大家多多支持那我們就朝一個國家更好的發展方向來努力"},{"start":28167.512,"end":28173.438,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":28189.198,"end":28205.77,"text":"稍微29到32是本席所提出那也感謝臺大成功大學都已經有跟本席來溝通但主要我還是利用這個機會再一次來說明過去醫護的一個部分當然我知道大家都很辛苦不管是公務人員醫護人員大家都辛苦那但是醫護在"},{"start":28207.071,"end":28222.898,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會"},{"start":28224.699,"end":28245.61,"text":"部給予加班費。人事的拆勤系統就要儘速更新,能夠讓員工在1月1號的時候正式上線。另外,我們也要求就是要針對不能因為明年所謂用預算不足的理由來拒絕核實給付加班費。我想這一點是我們一開始開宗明義先講。"},{"start":28246.59,"end":28255.182,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":28262.552,"end":28288.142,"text":"但我一直強調一個概念如果說能夠更加公開透明的話其實反而能夠對於醫院內部大家士氣能夠不會因為這樣子而互相懷疑猜忌好像別人會拿的比較多我拿的比較少公開透明其實也是我們管理者對於所有同仁的最基本的一個要求所以也提案不管是30案跟32案都提案要求臺大醫院跟成大醫院等"},{"start":28288.562,"end":28303.057,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":28303.856,"end":28327.883,"text":"讓同仁都能夠了解所以說這幾點我是特別再一次的要求那另外我想今天這個大學的校長也都有過來昨天也特別跟大家報告我們教育文化委員會的委員在高教司的部分也都有特別講到其實部長也是這個高等教育來的所以說其實之前我們高等教育裡面一直有提到是說要給更多的支持"},{"start":28328.263,"end":28353.287,"text":"所以我昨天也有特別要求部長說一定今年來不及做的明年真的要把我們所謂的高等教育的前瞻計畫的概念給納入教育部提出來我們才有支持的空間跟理由不要教育部自己不敢逐夢追夢然後我們要支持都沒辦法其實剛剛很多委員我們一整天坐下來你說凍結多凍結少是一回事啊"},{"start":28353.607,"end":28375.881,"text":"但更重要的是我們希望是能夠教育部提出一個宏觀的計畫讓我們覺得這個計畫是真的未來可行的三年五年長遠的發展我覺得這比支出必較那個50萬、100萬、200萬來得更直接明瞭好不好我們一起努力為高等教育來打拼謝謝羅廷威委員"},{"start":28379.236,"end":28404.166,"text":"我原本的是第二案對不起讓我補充說明那原本是全數凍結那我有聽到有跟我做一個解釋那我可以諒解那就改成主決議但我希望說後續能夠因應法規來做一個探討那我的我希望大家不要誤會我利益是良善的我希望在這一個部分上我們看到這樣的有公關未落費"},{"start":28405.006,"end":28408.731,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":28423.427,"end":28449.646,"text":"三、三案等一下好嗎?所以我們先把校長這邊處理完那謝謝喔那因為我們所有的案子都已經改成主決議主決議也已經文字修正後通過那我們是不是就謝謝你們從從午就等到這裡的校長們好嗎辛苦了也謝謝委員們都配合都能夠改主決議校長加油大家辛苦了謝謝謝謝校長們辛苦了"},{"start":28451.388,"end":28452.868,"text":"委員也都配合改成主決議"},{"start":28475.833,"end":28476.654,"text":"教育部所屬機構作業基金總支出"},{"start":28495.428,"end":28503.372,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":28523.877,"end":28535.658,"text":"所以你現在是要簡略還是要凍結?簡略是要簡略啊?對,因為不要去大陸啊那個教育部要不要表達一下你們的意見我很怕你們被統戰"},{"start":28538.581,"end":28539.622,"text":"中央政府總預算案"},{"start":28568.921,"end":28591.36,"text":"中國那邊有一個那個靠靠內蒙古那邊我記得好像那另外像他們有一個像說穿穿名字的半赤木昆蟲的調查其實就是有對不對不好意思給委員看一下他們是管主認為說這些有些是有需要跟中國大陸那邊去做考察或是研究的必要才列的"},{"start":28591.88,"end":28598.966,"text":"議務單位直接建議參考昨天的有關大陸用凍結方法,昨天是75萬凍結、25萬凍結三分之一,是不是可以建議來比照辦理?羅廷威委員,是不是比照昨天就凍結一部分好嗎?"},{"start":28613.314,"end":28640.773,"text":"你說考察講得這麼好聽裡面還放一個訪問然後去那個什麼國父孫中山紀念館這個部分到底有沒有實際的意義我就有待商考了那科博館在我的選區那我們都希望他能夠越來越好那硬體設施真的老舊編列這麼多的旅費出去硬體設施沒有去做一個新增沒有做一個改善"},{"start":28642.134,"end":28659.933,"text":"十幾年前我們以科博館為傲現在十幾年後還是一樣科博館的東西還在用滑鼠你能夠相信在科博館用滑鼠去點東西嗎人家都觸控螢幕了我們的科博館還在用滑鼠所以編列這個旅費我覺得真的很大的問題那柯志恩委員那科博館也是你的好朋友你知道裡面有多慘"},{"start":28661.274,"end":28678.249,"text":"所以用在科博館本身回饋到孩子我們支持但是你們去做這個考察有沒有實際幫助到科博館更新我覺得有待商榷所以我可以接受不要3但是要動那動多少你現在這一個466萬至少要給我動200"},{"start":28683.424,"end":28690.873,"text":"動200可不可以接受?那個司長梁司長那個侯孟凱委員講完之後司長一起處理好嗎?我們就針對數字來討論好不好?"},{"start":28696.932,"end":28718.833,"text":"我只提一下九月我才帶我的小朋友去科博館我看到那個科博館外面的這個告示牌我真的以為這是考古出來的你看一下那個斑駁的程度那個斑駁的程度因為他是直接日照那斑駁的程度這個不要以為這個是裝置藝術我們現在大陸地區旅費好不好"},{"start":28719.614,"end":28738.387,"text":"所以我特別提出來就是說呼應我們都支持但是就是說科博館如果說有設備的部分的話一定要提升稍微提醒大家我們就針對預算關心的議題其他別的時間都可以提出那剛剛說動200萬這也是預算關心的議題啊因為現在是在講大陸地區旅費好不好不是科博館"},{"start":28740.609,"end":28755.636,"text":"市長可以接受嗎?不是跟召委跟委員報告因為我們的基金今年底才剛因為都是會省的比較慢解凍比較慢那其實這邊凍的多形同就是應該是沒有辦法去進行那我只是跟委員報告這一點"},{"start":28756.556,"end":28767.865,"text":"那動多少你可以接受那個數字?我本來是想說是參考昨天的那個動三分之一比如說大概這樣150萬呢?羅廷威委員就少50萬好不好150萬意思到了我們已經有編了4000萬補助他們的趙偉我可以看你面子200變150減50但是我真的很納悶少這50你就可以變成廚房"},{"start":28781.855,"end":28797.844,"text":"多這50你就不能租房喔你真的是騙我但沒關係150我可以動150後續你們要去詳細的報告我要了解你們去的原因還有去的成效還有最重要的是科博館如何更新提出具體的計畫才可以使得動之"},{"start":28800.065,"end":28823.922,"text":"謝謝羅廷威委員願意配合就150萬書面報告後再解凍讓羅廷威委員知道要去哪裡講清楚還有科博館他關心的你們再私下跟他溝通再來我們就主決議34案照案通過我們進入學產基金基金用途有4案35、36、37、38有沒有委員要發言"},{"start":28828.991,"end":28852.158,"text":"那個議員執委員先36、38這個併案講啦因為36是羅志強、徐曉新有幫他提的38是自己第一個就是學產基金他的這個不管在金額跟補助人數方面呢"},{"start":28853.454,"end":28876.471,"text":"執行率都偏低大概是八十幾%而已那這個到底是因為它主要的用途是在講述學金給中低收入就是需要幫助的人那請問一下是需要幫助的人變少了還是說限制增加了才導致於它的執行率下降然後我這邊有一個陳情案跟這個類似是一個大學生 技職學校的大學生"},{"start":28877.532,"end":28892.817,"text":"他因為他是中低收入戶然後在大學的時候學校並沒有告訴他說可以申請這些類似的補助然後他畢業以後隔了幾年才輾轉得知原來可以申請然後後來要去跟教育部申請之後說已經喪失請求權了"},{"start":28894.617,"end":28922.243,"text":"但這個部分其實跟公務人員的規定是不太一樣因為公務人員的子弟如果要申請補助他是有一定年限的請求權10年可是一般像這種中低收入戶他如果要針對這些像助學金或是慰問金的請求權就沒有所以這個限制我覺得是不是應該可以考慮把它拿掉再加上你的執行率也沒有到很高嘛所以這是不是可以"},{"start":28923.203,"end":28925.847,"text":"我覺得這個案子我們這邊是凍結10%凍結10%然後書面報告之後解凍"},{"start":28931.749,"end":28938.795,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":28955.168,"end":28979.994,"text":"動節800基金用途這邊動節800那個你們哪一位要說明可以接受嗎?報告主席跟委員這邊跟各位委員報告一下因為我們這個112年我們的執行數確實是比較低落最主要是少子化的緣故然後因為照比例不是因為我們限制變嚴可是跟委員報告我們今年我們就把這個補助金額提高本來"},{"start":28980.754,"end":29006.402,"text":"中小學一學期是2000我們提高到2500那高中的部分的話一學期是4000的話增加到一學期是3000我們增加到4000所以我們今年的這個增加的補助金額就增加了7500萬另外呢我們在公讀的部分以前叫暑期公讀服務我們今年就已經改成寒暑假還有長假期都可以來公讀服務再來的話就是我們這個部分"},{"start":29007.142,"end":29032.147,"text":"增加了這些以後,今年的我們的執行率至少可以達到95%然後甚至於我們預估最好可以達到98%這個跟委員報告那第二的部分的話就是我們明年就是114年我們增編了這個6000萬左右那也跟委員報告因為我們現在正在研議我們把特殊專長的學生的補助的部分條件放寬"},{"start":29033.047,"end":29037.955,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功"},{"start":29049.167,"end":29062.32,"text":"高光懷學生高光懷學生因為這個比較嚴格所以我們把它改成虛光懷那另外我們就是說急難救助的部分我們是希望說把它提高就是本來"},{"start":29064.002,"end":29083.628,"text":"重大傷病卡資補助一次我們希望說如果可以的話重大傷病的時候每年是不是可以增加費用或增加次數大概以上謝謝杜處長的說明喔已經有放寬喔那剛剛說800萬是不是可以再降低一些我想剛剛杜處長說明的很清楚沒有回答那個請求權部分"},{"start":29087.353,"end":29105.606,"text":"委員我回答一下那個是針對學生的各類學雜費減免那個個案那因為我們每年的學雜費減免都是年度預算那現在假如在辦法裡面也提到學校都有跟學生告知你什麼條件可以申請什麼減免"},{"start":29106.647,"end":29118.817,"text":"那那個個案其實他上一個階段他也有申請啦那是因為是年度預算假如我讓說經過10年你回過頭來跟政府說我那時候可以申請什麼減免我沒申請我的年度預算我是沒有辦法去做核實的這樣的一個處理啦對那個我們是不是現在就不要進入那個那個個案討論不是那你今天如果是學產基金因為年度預算也不行"},{"start":29132.809,"end":29161.436,"text":"我知道那個不是我現在是說這個部分我是用那個因為是類似性質的嘛所以你們這個比如說請求因為我剛剛舉的是公務人員的例子嘛那個他們也是當年度的預算啊就沒這個問題那為什麼在你們補助中低收入戶學生就有這個問題咧大家都是年度預算啊那我想我們如果不滿意答案的話我們就用那個凍結之後來溝通好嗎因為剛剛是到800萬嘛那議員之委員就是剛剛處長很誠懇解釋我們再降一些好嗎"},{"start":29162.816,"end":29190.116,"text":"就處長800萬不能接受,多少你們可以接受?啊?500萬喔?你說可不可以?處長可以接受嗎?好,那800萬可以接受就書面報告後解凍再來就主決議39案就要一步照案通過那請大家翻到第10頁我們現在進入運動發展基金基金來源,好,洪孟楷委員先待會陳秀寶委員"},{"start":29194.704,"end":29219.949,"text":"好,我跟秀寶委員都是針對這個基金來源的部分我們需要要求甄列主要兩個部分啦第一今年十二強大家都看到了嘛中華隊表現那麼優異那連帶的就是鼓勵大家合法的管道來去做運動彩券第一看賽事更精彩對不對第二也可以增加對於我們的這個體育的一個發展那我們已經有看到2012年"},{"start":29223.575,"end":29251.558,"text":"2023年的一個決算就有72億多啊到最後是72億多啊那何以我們今年明年的預算數還是那麼的保守我覺得這樣子太過保守忽略了現在的一個整體的一個發展啊1、1、2年那個時候是WBC世界棒球經典賽但是我們只在預賽止步可是現在我們十二強已經打明年又有世界棒球經典賽的資格賽還有相關的一些國際賽事啊所以我認為"},{"start":29252.819,"end":29268.355,"text":"可以針對這個稅務的部分就是針列5億元那這個秀巴委員是2億元我們等一下再討論但至少針列是一定勢在必行我們也希望我們這個運動彩券這邊能夠大力的一個推動以上謝謝"},{"start":29270.715,"end":29276.46,"text":"秀寶委員這個案子是針對運動財建營運分配收入這三年的運動財建營運收入每年都有達到60億元以上的水準"},{"start":29287.091,"end":29293.02,"text":"所以如果你們編列的這麼保守我們如何來拓展我們的相關的業務的發展所以我才會提增列2億希望說我們整個運發基金可以收支平衡並且也敦促我們運發基金的這個核實編列"},{"start":29302.794,"end":29327.803,"text":"那我想這個案子增列也是說對我們運動裁券以及關心運動的人有所期許啦那體育署這邊也應該更積極要對自己更有信心而不是告訴委員們說因為沒有大型的國際賽事啊所以大家會有困難像這樣子的說法那體育署是有來說明也加上他有說今年是比上年度多編列收入的部分有多了那"},{"start":29328.843,"end":29346.119,"text":"我也不是一定堅持要增列這樣的數額但是我真的是希望說提出你們這邊好好研議如何將來增加關心運動的人數而且就可以反映在相關的運採的營收上面那這個案子其實我可以改組決議秀寶委員說如果你們說明清楚的話可以改組決議那是鎮署長要說明嗎"},{"start":29355.698,"end":29372.716,"text":"報告委員,這個部分其實我之前有先詢問臺灣運彩公司,畢竟他們才是比較第一線。總經理是跟我回答保守估計是希望可以拼到62億,但是如果真的要拼,他們覺得有機會到65億。"},{"start":29374.838,"end":29380.461,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":29400.402,"end":29420.637,"text":"所以到65億的意思是增略2億嗎?增略1.5億好 那個孟凱跟秀寶委員增略1.5億可以嗎?世界棒球經典賽今年12強那麼亮眼的一個成績一定是更加的突出嘛那明年世界棒球經典賽2月又在台灣打啊"},{"start":29421.636,"end":29424.537,"text":"臺灣大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":29452.677,"end":29471.39,"text":"基金來源增列至65億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1.5億基金來源增列至1."},{"start":29478.322,"end":29501.224,"text":"好謝謝主席我的是45案喔那第一個是關於單項協會的事情尤其是足協那我們其實一直在跟體育署溝通那如果大家還記得剛剛署長鄭署長有說在您的任內你真的非常積極處理很多單項協會不民主內部不民主的事情你甚至說你處理掉好幾位理事長我非常謝謝署長的積極"},{"start":29502.265,"end":29527.204,"text":"但是對於足協有非常多的紛爭跟確實很明確的錯誤,我不知道為什麼都還是沒有辦法處理,我覺得很遺憾,我真的還是要拜託署長。接下來關於足協欠款清單的部分,我知道你們說你們有去清查,可是因為到目前為止清單都還是沒有給非常多基層的工作人員。署長我知道你自己也是苦主,你應該被欠了很多錢,兩三百萬可能有。"},{"start":29528.004,"end":29555.08,"text":"那可是署長他們可能不敢欠你可是很多基層的工作人員他們就算想要去要錢都要不回來我覺得這個非常可惜喔那包含我們的不分區實名警他也是被欠債的人那再來關於單項協會性品而上的課程其實一直都是中華體總跟單項協會我們覺得在開設相關課程他們左手拿體育署的錢右手拿學員上課的繳費的錢可是到底課程的品質是什麼我們其實也很相信體育署積極的督導"},{"start":29557.048,"end":29586.168,"text":"目前體育署關於教練系統的部分這邊我要講得比較清楚目前我們針對違規的教練不管他是因為性貧、性騷、性侵或是過度的體罰目前我們的系統只能把他下架例如說陳培宇做錯了什麼事情陳培宇的教練資格被下架可是如果我是一般家長我想要去查詢陳培宇在相關系統裡面有沒有做過對兒少不好的事情其實現在是完全看不到的而且他如果沒有搭配兒少法也是一樣查不到的"},{"start":29586.748,"end":29614.27,"text":"那我們認為這件事情其實體育署你們真的不用修法就可以做我們只要要求協會他們在相關登錄系統上清楚地標註陳培瑜的資格被取消是因為陳培瑜做了哪些有違兒少法的事情或者是侵害兒少權利其實他的名字還是可以保留在上面給家長作為一個重要的依據參考我認為這件事情會讓家長更為放心因為平均這個會期如果大家願意關心兒少的話"},{"start":29615.131,"end":29643.32,"text":"平均每一個月超過4到6件都是所有這些體育教練對兒少不當性侵、性騷、不當體罰的事情真的看得令人非常心驚膽跳接下來關於禁藥基金會的部分把禁藥基金會行政法人化的做法很令人費解那目前明顯內控失令我相信體育署是清楚的我們也很希望連林玉婷她都站出來呼籲要整頓這個禁藥基金會我也希望不要讓選手們因為禁藥基金會而受到競賽的風險"},{"start":29644.941,"end":29658.774,"text":"最後關於青少年運動的投資受到既有奪牌主義的引導這件事情我們希望體育署在跟中學體總的督導上一定要更加積極不要讓人家覺得我們是中學體總的提款機以上謝謝"},{"start":29665.246,"end":29682.269,"text":"我這個部分裡面我有三個部分那43跟51我是決定可以改成組決議但是我還是要說明一下在43裡面因為這個運動員工會長期是被就是完全是我說實在體育署的積極度真的是不夠了"},{"start":29682.99,"end":29694.105,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":29698.891,"end":29713.499,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學"},{"start":29725.285,"end":29728.586,"text":"教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":29742.81,"end":29757.203,"text":"他們都已經這樣子在這個地方我想署長手上也有一本啊然後也是跟這個賴總統不斷的呼應我說實在的可能有很多時候署長有點不好意思說因為都是體壇大佬但是我還是要說一句話啦你們這個成立四年來內控有問題啊而且運動員教育檢測結果這個風險管理等等"},{"start":29761.227,"end":29785.203,"text":"都沒有提交有效支援,你們甚至開會的時候把你們趕出去,體育署都不敢說一句話,那我覺得這樣子一個耽誤東西,然後呢每個人認為希望走法治化,那我覺得這個東西體育署要是,我們可以讓你來用啦,對不對,不敢講的,這個大老人不敢講的,立法委員可以讓你們靠啊,那你到底在這個每一個運動員也都是深深呼喚你們,把它做一個行政法人化,然後特別對禁藥這個部分,沒有一個特別的還是被綁架,還是被現有的東西來綁架,"},{"start":29790.427,"end":29795.009,"text":"所以我覺得如果說沒有辦法提出一個積極有效的部分那乾脆簡列算啦因為你沒有辦法提出來嘛而且這個禁要何其嚴重啊萬一真的是把關不義讓我們的選手不小心觸犯了這個風險到國際上面這也是一個大笑話那目前的這個機制又沒有完全讓大家來覺得非常的一個相信我覺得署長在這一塊當中要給予一個很明確的答案"},{"start":29814.355,"end":29826.32,"text":"特別在46案當中我覺得這個東西要給一個明確的答案這是為運動員還有為這幾個大家都非常熟悉都已經上訴到總統的層面來這個東西如果不給予一個明確的答案我覺得這說不過去了"},{"start":29827.028,"end":29827.228,"text":"陳秀寶委員"},{"start":29848.586,"end":29876.442,"text":"好,你剛剛那個41案跟洪孟楷40案一起整個基金來源增列1.5億那再來是洪孟楷委員要發言,待會陳培委員好,本席有五個案子吧48案,健全運動產業的這個運動發展計畫為什麼會反而今年比去年的規模減少了1億元減少了15%之多是不是請等一下說明一下到底你想的方向是什麼52案的部分"},{"start":29877.643,"end":29905.669,"text":"這一個出國考察也一樣本席不會不支持出國考察但是重點是出國考察有沒有掌握確切的業務美國舊金山國際消費類電子產品展覽會這個是屬於比較是電子產品的一個部分如果說你今天是講是說是經濟部是科技部是速發部去我覺得勉強我們可以理解但我想知道體育署就看消費類電子產品是什麼樣的一個方向"},{"start":29908.328,"end":29935.409,"text":"之前第55案媒體政策跟業務宣導費用暴增了4倍等一下請署長特別說明一下去年編多少錢那今年為什麼要編暴增4倍之多不是40%是4倍400%媒體宣傳跟業務宣導我們一直講做得好的話大家都會知道大家都會有感但做不好只想要用這種人民的錢洗人民的腦我們沒有辦法接受那另外針對"},{"start":29937.523,"end":29963.523,"text":"五十七案也是一樣怎麼會這個預算的原額的部分反而是減少然後沒有比那個之前來的多那尤其是用在基層的各級學校人才培育計畫的一個部分所以本席在這一個特別是凍結十萬元其實要督促說應該要針對我們各級學校運動人才培育要重視最後第五十九案我覺得這一個很關鍵"},{"start":29964.944,"end":29992.882,"text":"怎麼會我們的一般行政計畫管理下面會有編列非典型勞動承攬人力43萬預算元額那我知道之前有一些單位他講的是說非典型勞動承攬人力可能是保全可能是清潔人員可能是相關的這一些不是公務人員但這樣子就更不應該啊如果說43萬元是相關的這一些清潔人員保全的話那就是已經低於我們平均的薪資啊"},{"start":29994.042,"end":30006.809,"text":"我們公部門絕對不能帶頭的尤其是壓榨或尤其是帶頭的苛刻這些給予我們協助的這些行政人員所以說這個部分請特別說明一下那不應該出現這樣的一個狀況以上 謝謝好 謝謝林建啟委員"},{"start":30013.607,"end":30014.048,"text":"媒體政策及業務宣導費"},{"start":30028.447,"end":30030.448,"text":"111、112執行率偏低,連續兩年下滑,明年又變得比較高。"},{"start":30050.987,"end":30065.633,"text":"五十三案這個基金在明年提出了辦理大型國際體育運動交流活動裡面的基金費編列10億多這個相較於今年增幅是277.49%"},{"start":30069.274,"end":30097.119,"text":"雖然體育署也有來做一些說明但是我對於裡面關於有一些媒宣公司或者是公關公司在舉辦這個賽事活動的部分我有疑慮雖然你們說現在也有某種程度的開放但是我也沒有看到相關的這個規則而且這些公司也都很確定了所以這個部分我基本上會採凍結我這邊有提出一個凍結數"},{"start":30099.563,"end":30101.185,"text":"在輔助各級學校運動人才培育計劃中,編列經費比114、113增幅7.96"},{"start":30117.244,"end":30117.464,"text":"請鄭署長一併簡要說明"},{"start":30134.466,"end":30162.395,"text":"我們先從林倩琦委員42案的部分那這個部分是因為我們的那個112年的媒體雖然執行率偏低主要是因為轉播跟引進民間投資這部分去跨年度的一個預算無法與當年度和解所致那當然我們在明年的部分我們在運動部成立之前其實我們有下達希望我們的全民組能夠努力針對我們的社區這個相關的賽事的"},{"start":30164.096,"end":30178.493,"text":"基層的賽事的舉辦能夠大力去推廣我們同時也希望在這明年的部分去推廣讓我們在後年如果運動部真正步入正軌的時候可以有一個參考就是說我們在"},{"start":30179.033,"end":30193.278,"text":"整個不同年不同的基層不同的層級的賽事方面包括像比方說像迷你足球啦像街舞啦三對三籃球啦等等一些比較屬於新興運動的部分或甚至一些身心障礙相關的賽事那還有這些"},{"start":30194.698,"end":30215.518,"text":"全國登山、海洋山林等不同年齡不同層級的賽事業務推廣我們希望在明年的時候可以先來大力做賽事相關的推動所以需要這些的經費事實上按柯委員的部分謝謝主決議的部分事實上按陳佩玉委員的部分"},{"start":30217.669,"end":30242.555,"text":"有關委員非常關心的是在教練查詢系統的註記的部分那其實我本人也很贊成在那個系統上面能夠呈現他的這個註記但是我們的法制基本上有研究過這邊是在各自法上面的確是有它為難之處那這部分我會再確認如果說各自法沒有疑慮基本上我們就會配合但是如果各自法有疑慮"},{"start":30243.155,"end":30243.315,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":30263.931,"end":30290.366,"text":"在46案的部分禁藥的教育的部分我想我以前也管過運動禁藥組那其實運動員在務處禁藥的部分的確我們還需要做更多那我們預計明年也會跟醫師公會畢竟開藥的所要指醫師公會的部分我們跟他們做全面的全國的醫師的教育訓練方面能夠把這個運動禁藥方面把它含進去那行政法的部分我們也在為是跟同仁講接下來在"},{"start":30291.306,"end":30312.034,"text":"整個運動部這個法案整個過了之後我們稍微喘一口氣我們運動部的部分我們希望在兩年內目標兩年內把它新增法人化這是我們的目標所以我們會啟動這方面的研議當然中間會有什麼過程我目前還不曉得但我們這個好那再來48案紅衛園的部分那那個"},{"start":30313.426,"end":30326.719,"text":"動資券的部分這個也是當然我們的對象主要是高中跟大學生那這也的確反映到我國的規律運動人口的比例在這個年齡層的確也比較低這也是為什麼當初要推動青春動資券來做一個誘導"},{"start":30328.3,"end":30355.985,"text":"希望他們增加這樣的比例那當然我們在執行的部分的確第一年這樣執行下來大概差不多2億到3億左右所以我們先簡略自己先把它收到3億的一個預算那這部分我們會繼續去持續來努力希望能夠增加這個使用的人數那第51案的部分這也是青春同志圈的部分52案在去美國舊金山的這個部分呢"},{"start":30358.054,"end":30378.451,"text":"我們想這部分我們之前可能要請我們的相關的那個委辦的主持人有去委辦這邊有做一些說明喔我想這個部分我們當然希望在這個電子產品展覽會去了解未來奧運在電競的奧運的穿戴智慧穿戴裝裝具以及虛擬擴增實境等等AI相關的一個"},{"start":30379.417,"end":30379.437,"text":"獲得獎勵獎勵獎勵獎勵"},{"start":30396.994,"end":30416.327,"text":"至於一些公司的部分我們在去年開始我們有針對公司的部分在運發基金去支持他們辦理國際賽那這也是因為公司因為在去年的經典賽那時候給我們一個感想就是說有些商業的公司的確他們很積極在爭取國際賽事的辦理"},{"start":30418.869,"end":30422.852,"text":"主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管124年度教育部主管"},{"start":30448.55,"end":30457.064,"text":"第50萬衡委員的部分這部分也是我們剛剛也是透過我們明年的一個全民運動這部分我們去試行所以需要不多"},{"start":30462.844,"end":30477.583,"text":"五十六案零委員的部分,我想明年我們在114年度比13年增加了五千萬元的部分,實際是因為擴編了各級學校運動團隊的部分,那我們是未來還是因為學校真的很多啊,依據"},{"start":30478.624,"end":30494.63,"text":"整個受理學校有申請來做這樣的擴編那57案的部分我們是有因為有三項的113年預算交12年減少是因為有三項聘任專運動教練計畫一致公務預算的關係所以把它剪下來但114年有爭取擴編預算來補助運動團隊那最後一個59案的部分我們在"},{"start":30501.345,"end":30522.923,"text":"人力部分因為檔案特殊性及機敏性,承攬人員似辦理工作場地人員管理及處理檔案、診券、掃描等。平均薪資3萬5千元,所以也相對算比較高。以上報告,謝謝。好,謝謝鄭署長的說明。那我們就直接處理,是凍結。不好意思,我剛剛舉手,抱歉抱歉。我剛剛漏講了49案,49案署長我們快速對一下。第一個是關於體育署的捐款網站。"},{"start":30530.089,"end":30547.02,"text":"其實要不是因為大家知道高成瑞其實很多人其實是不知道這件事情的我要拜託體育署在這件事情上要積極的調整那個做法那接下來關於那個運動文化的部分我們甚至去年還促成了體育署跟台時博的合作可是我們到目前為止看到你們的典藏只是換個名字繼續做"},{"start":30547.9,"end":30569.79,"text":"在相關的預算審查其實我們去年有講這件事情但我們還是沒有看到體育署對於文化累積這件事情的想像我覺得非常可惜甚至現在台南的文化局長謝老師其實也是運動史的專家一直在提醒我們這件事情那接下來關於運動產業的部分我們也花了很多時間跟體育署討論應該開快要十次的會吧可是我認為體育署對於相關產業的"},{"start":30570.93,"end":30586.686,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、"},{"start":30593.633,"end":30615.974,"text":"那接下來還有關於體育署有一個職能基準課程跟目前實際產業的需求明顯落差我們甚至因為這件事情去幫忙問了勞動部勞動部也提醒其實就很多的產業的需求跟市場的需求中間落差你們開出來的課程其實很大落差這個部分要拜託然後清單的部分組長您剛剛沒有回應到就是那個欠債清單的部分好 謝謝"},{"start":30616.755,"end":30622.501,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":30640.359,"end":30649.688,"text":"選手們如果真的還是有麻煩還是要主動來跟主協或是跟我們體育署來反映他只要主動來找我們我們會幫忙來跟主協來做反映如果真的有欠款的話那這邊我們積極來處理謝謝"},{"start":30651.926,"end":30676.978,"text":"那我們再來是不是就用凍結看是大家之後再解凍前再繼續溝通囉那個去年這個部分是凍100萬齁那這邊有沒有委員提議好 林建啟委員主席不好意思我在53案這邊是42案這邊我有簡列喔然後在53案這邊我有提一個凍結數好 那簡列的部分就不要再堅持了吧"},{"start":30679.829,"end":30695.881,"text":"就用動一起處理好不好那你幫我提個數字我說上次去年是100萬林建啟委員你提一個數字好嗎林建啟委員你要不要提一個數字我們整個並動多少錢因為53這邊我提的動結數是5%吧你們這個"},{"start":30706.069,"end":30706.709,"text":"五百萬,署長接受嗎?"},{"start":30733.841,"end":30744.426,"text":"四十二案林建吉委員提出媒體政策及業務宣導費5500萬元,已經比去年多增加1000萬元。本席在五十二案裡面又講是說我們有非亞奧運的部分也有編列媒體政策及業務宣導費。"},{"start":30754.09,"end":30771.078,"text":"從一一二年的一百九十萬一一三年的四百五十萬到現在一一四年成長到一千九百萬成長了四倍你基金用途的部分你補助相關地方學校的那個"},{"start":30772.52,"end":30775.282,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":30797.745,"end":30811.314,"text":"主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管一、繼續審查114年度教育部"},{"start":30825.903,"end":30836.233,"text":"穩定上路之後其實很多的機制我們都需要靠明年的上半年跟下半年我們來做一個嘗試所以這部分才會有這樣子的一個編列那謝謝委員多多支持謝謝"},{"start":30838.029,"end":30856.203,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":30856.303,"end":30875.262,"text":"美國舊金山的這個電子展既然你講是說要看什麼東西那確實你講VR、AR講那麼多那我想知道到底項目哪一個運動項目現在奧運是要推這樣的一個部分那以及你們看過之後的一個成果是什麼所以我要求在這個電子展它是"},{"start":30878.218,"end":30899.066,"text":"五十二案五十二案裡面我要求凍結五百萬那請給我這個出國考察的一個報告後使得動之五十二案凍結五百萬我們就一起並動一千萬好嗎五百加五百一千我沒有要並動因為剛剛我們的原則就已經是這樣了如果說我之後如果說他的報告給我我覺得說可以那我是不是連其他的部分"},{"start":30905.543,"end":30920.096,"text":"也一起放,沒有啊,不是,趙薇我講的很清楚我要看到的東西就是你去的報告嘛你出國的考察的報告的業務很單純所以說你在這一個部分10億7千萬裡面凍結500萬我相信不會自愛難行吧所以10億7千萬的這一個項目裡面凍結500萬"},{"start":30928.282,"end":30948.067,"text":"請給我出席的這個美國舊金山電子展的這個考察報告使得動之那另外第二個部分就在非亞奧運基層運動人才培育我剛已經講了去年只有450萬的媒體宣傳費用今年暴增4倍變1900萬所以在這一個項目裡面我也要求凍結500萬"},{"start":30950.267,"end":30977.886,"text":"你明年等運動部成立掛牌你真的有需求要媒體政策業務宣導的時候再請提出報告時的動之所以另外就是第55案11億8千多萬的這一個部分動計500萬我們剛剛說我們一起並動不要在最後這個時候破例好嗎不是沒有沒有啊你之前就已經有之前就已經有個別動之前是非常多人只有一個高雄市政府案好嗎不是我如果說我並動的話我是不是就要連帶的"},{"start":30979.267,"end":31001.479,"text":"你的報告給我那我是不是連帶的我要去考慮到其他的不用啊你可以自己不要解凍我之前就因為帶你教師案我就不准解凍沒有關係啊什麼叫沒有關係欸你覺得沒有關係我覺得有關係啊莫名其妙欸動跟解動的原則就是這樣嗎如果說你沒有那這樣子代表趙偉你完全不了解我們的立院的一個運作模式喔"},{"start":31002.441,"end":31007.027,"text":"我現在很針對這個預算如果說你的報告給我我就解凍這個預算那這樣子就會很單純但是如果說你今天有三個報告出來我兩個報告同意一個報告不同意的話那這樣不是莫名其妙嗎"},{"start":31019.123,"end":31045.465,"text":"剛剛的委員早上的不是都他的權利都受損嗎?那個是各委員沒有我今天我已經有很多案那等你當召委的時候你要開放個別動你那時候處理好嗎?我就是個別處理那我今天已經審到這個最後一個我們就依照剛剛的原則好嗎?沒有原則啊一開始我們就有這樣的狀況我們剛剛都是這樣剛剛唯一有一個就是用沒有啊我的部分一直都有啊沒有我的部分從一開始剛剛是因為部長願意就是用那個那署長所以是要請教署長署長願意嗎?"},{"start":31049.674,"end":31050.395,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":31068.957,"end":31096.582,"text":"10億7千萬、11億8千萬各500萬會造成摯愛難行嗎?這是第一個我想請教的部分那第二個部分我專注的點其實都非常的我想非常的理性今天就是你們去美國舊金山我也沒有說不去你們去美國舊金山看消費電子展回來之後給我們相關的數據我就是針對這個部分可以解凍我們就解凍不要影響到其他的業務項目嘛"},{"start":31097.782,"end":31122.621,"text":"到時候就是你不同意的話其他委員不會擋你的你就不要解凍好嗎那我是不是會卡到別人的預算不會怎麼不會勒我現在五百萬你這五百萬然後你這整個基金比如說假設一千五百萬我只要動這個五百萬結果我卡到其他的一千萬不是那今天召委從昨天到今天都不是這樣的原則嘛召委我說一開始沒有沒有12案到59案"},{"start":31124.142,"end":31143.761,"text":"教委我是不是一早的這個教育部的預算裡面我也有這樣子的一個要求後來我們是有依照他剛好是不同節不同列我們這樣子處理那這邊都是同一幕啊並沒有再去分了啊同一幕裡面我也有分支預算裡面是可以個別處理的啊來問一下旁邊的主秘吧"},{"start":31144.963,"end":31158.636,"text":"主秘應該是尊重召委吧?尊重每一個委員吧?每一個委員?那其他委員?召委也不太大,不說實在,召委是主持議事,但是你要尊重每一個委員啊。但很多委員剛剛表達這樣子不合理。那怎麼不合理?"},{"start":31160.326,"end":31175.273,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所"},{"start":31190.509,"end":31218.108,"text":"包委員是那個紅黑圓不好意思因為這個案子主要是產業組的他是屬於健全運動產業環境底下的科目那個第52案而不是在辦理大型國際的這個計畫底下對我說因為他這邊是是列辦理大型國際但是其實這個案子是我們是放在健全運動產業環境促進體育運動發展計畫底下那個科目所以這部分那一個科目總預算多少錢3億"},{"start":31222.952,"end":31223.954,"text":"建權第50案5億多第48案5億7千多萬"},{"start":31231.209,"end":31252.585,"text":"我再說明一下我一樣是本席的提案5億7千多萬那是不是這個部分我就凍結因為它比10億7千多萬少了整整5億那我這樣是凍結300萬剛剛議事員提醒說其實過去解凍是可以部分不解凍的好不好你到時候不滿意你就部分不解凍並沒有你講的就是全部不能解凍的問題"},{"start":31261.631,"end":31290.63,"text":"章緯我的42案跟53案剛才跟署長這邊我們講到的就是500萬好不好500萬我不知道你說42案跟53案現在大家都要個別動了嗎我們是不是就整幕昨天今天就這樣如果有一劫一裂的時候我們當時就有妥協能夠分開處理現在就只有一整幕那你現在開放洪孟凱這樣個別動林倩琪委員也要個別動那剛剛前面大家一起並動的人不是都權益受損了"},{"start":31291.991,"end":31309.246,"text":"這不是權益受損這為什麼不是權益受損你們自己接受的然後你現在跟我講權益受損我們現在只是行使我們立法委員的權益我覺得稍微說實在話啦大家都是直播所以說我們真的看得非常清楚啊好我們看得非常清楚齁那個"},{"start":31312.239,"end":31323.967,"text":"醫學院建議我們還是整體並動你可以個別註明你對那件事情特別的關切好不好請那個體育署一定要完成是並動一千嗎並動一千萬好署長OK"},{"start":31329.451,"end":31334.172,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":31350.856,"end":31377.996,"text":"就是幾位都特別注明那我們基金用途就整體並動一千萬幾位委員的要求請特別注明那我們書面報告後解凍43案、44案、51案改成主決議第60案原本的主決議文字修正後通過那我們現在進入私立高級中等以上學校退場基金基金用途有三案有沒有委員要發言"},{"start":31379.505,"end":31380.205,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":31404.807,"end":31404.967,"text":"預算改組決議439、440、441、444、451、456、458、459、462、467、468、469、501、506、522、525、535、536、539、542、547"},{"start":31431.312,"end":31455.942,"text":"國訓中心以下改成主決議第一案、第三案、第四案、第五案、第六案、第七案、第八案、第九案、第十案、十一案、十二案運客中心以下改主決議第一案、第二案、第四案、第五案、第七案基金案以下改主決議第一案到第28案都改主決議43案、44案、51案教育部照案通過"},{"start":31457.839,"end":31479.62,"text":"全部照案通過那今天還有那個附帶決議昨天的保留案是不是有委員要表達意見那個昨天的63案不好意思因為63案就是因為牽涉到整個高雄那個發展那我個人哪一個"},{"start":31481.144,"end":31503.974,"text":"五九六三跟六四了對這完全是還是在產業園區我覺得那個我們的萬美林召委的確是提出了非常多的一些意見我也完全的尊重但是我還是要去表達雖然我沒有提出案子但是身為為高雄的產業來做一個發聲我還是非常的希望能夠在這個凍結的層面當中能夠審慎的來評估因為畢竟地方對於這樣子的一個"},{"start":31509.096,"end":31513.76,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":31532.797,"end":31538.139,"text":"那我覺得這是有非常多的問題我們要去來做處理但是現在就我們的理解這9億7千萬已經匡列在這個地方然後呢我們懇請大家能夠著動然後可以讓地方能夠真正的展開來做一個更活化更讓符合大家覺得在產業上面可以更能夠觸發經濟的一個發展這是我還是要表達一下意見好謝謝柯政委員這是針對同一個案子的張雅琳委員"},{"start":31561.266,"end":31566.789,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關"},{"start":31588.396,"end":31609.752,"text":"就是那個不送協商的話,我們現在解決就不用送協商這個案子。好,那周委這樣子喔,因為這個案子呢,真的是姿勢體大,我們昨天花很多時間去談,那但是呢,這個柯政委員剛剛也有跟我,也不是剛剛談,他昨天跟我溝通到今天,那雅琳委員很關心這個案子喔,但我有幾個點我覺得我必須要說清楚。"},{"start":31609.912,"end":31612.053,"text":"9.7億是在工建計劃每一年工建計劃都會給教育部一筆經費去年給了58億,今年73億"},{"start":31626.081,"end":31647.348,"text":"但是9.7億並沒有額外附加在裡面所以我剛剛跟教育部調來的資料看到我們如果去年58億今年73億可是我們延續性的計畫就已經要多21億了結果我們看到國教署本來每一年在這個公建計畫當中有這個老舊校舍要更新改善"},{"start":31647.808,"end":31672.206,"text":"去年12億今年12億但明年就變成只剩下8億而已校舍是會越來越老舊可是呢這就明顯有排擠到所以我想這個是一個非常矛盾的地方那當然我想我們也支持昨天我一再重申那落腳再來一個縣市我們會羨慕但是呢我們不會嫉妒那我們會支持那只是說我有一個附帶決議要求就是說"},{"start":31673.667,"end":31677.909,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學校院校務基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立大學附設醫院"},{"start":31696.858,"end":31718.936,"text":"這筆預算不可以再排擠到教育部的預算最好是要由經濟部那裡去編因為這是跟產業發展有關係的因應台積電落腳在高雄所以我希望要做到一個附帶決議不能夠由教育部再來編這個預算因為各位真的排擠到了你們會後我可以給你們這張表來看光是國教署我們就不但沒有增加預算反而減少"},{"start":31720.157,"end":31737.436,"text":"所以我想我同意為了我們幾位非常我們大家都很關心高雄的委員那智恩是跟我講說那動三千萬那我可以同意但附帶決議一定要寫清楚明年不可以在別的教育部計劃上是不是能更詳實一點免得到最後淺"},{"start":31741.405,"end":31765.731,"text":"計畫不是教育部?羅廷委員要發言嗎?我想柯志恩委員也一直在強調這一個的重要性但萬美玲委員所提出的這些監督我覺得也是有所本本於這樣子我們非常的羨慕高雄有柯志恩不是有這個計畫所以我們就支持柯志恩委員說的這個部分還有張雅玲委員我也羨慕好不好"},{"start":31766.751,"end":31773.338,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育及文化委員會第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第1屆第2會期"},{"start":31779.565,"end":31794.091,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學"},{"start":31802.535,"end":31829.172,"text":"你這個清交過去有一些的歷史我覺得真的是指正粒粒他如何花多少時間、多少人力在高雄靜坐在這個地方不是只有我昨天所講的不是只有這個儀器設備在新竹然後只有人來這對整個的發展是沒有幫助的所以他一定要明令要寫清楚裡面他對於整個的學術上面對半導體人才的部分裡面他們到底做了哪一些實質上的部分這個我強烈要求一定要放在專案報告當中"},{"start":31831.594,"end":31837.216,"text":"提醒大家現在是5點20我們今天必須要所有案子處理完還有一些案子才會散會市長剛剛這個動3000萬附帶決議OK嗎?"},{"start":31846.158,"end":31860.662,"text":"我想這個我們尊重委員會 但是你負債決議一定要出來喔負債決議文字是不是先寫出來 今天解凍案 今天的這個凍結案才能夠成立喔就是說這個不能排擠到教育部未來的工業計畫的預算 不能再由教育部來編 要去經濟部編"},{"start":31865.403,"end":31879.194,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所國立大學教育部主管47所"},{"start":31894.125,"end":31922.752,"text":"所以要教育部來編預算真的非常奇怪那那個附帶決議寫出來之後我們再回來處理然後那個報告可不可以講一下新北市到底有什麼條件也可以來申請每週獨厚高雄謝謝那個好啦謝謝各位謝謝那我們先好這個等附帶決議出來之後我們再確認附帶決議趕快去寫那我們回來處理那個私立高級中等以上學校退場基金第61案改成主決議照案通過"},{"start":31924.485,"end":31948.405,"text":"還有今天有兩個臨時提案是有一個附帶決議那這個附帶決議洪孟凱委員你是主提案人是不是要說明一下大家手上有嗎有一個那個嚴正譴責教育部案這樣好來我手上拿到的這一個部分我不知道是不是最終版"},{"start":31949.125,"end":31972.814,"text":"當然已經跟我們溝通了兩次我們也都已經有一些部分的文字修正但我們現在手上又拿到一個完全把它畫得亂七八糟的我不知道是說這個是什麼樣的一個狀況我們像這樣子沒有辦法討論我們還沒有拿到是不是那個國會聯絡人發給大家有修正同意過的嗎沒有還是原本來沒關係那就原本的放上來嘛"},{"start":31975.918,"end":31994.43,"text":"副代決議副代決議寫得很清楚教育部跟農業部因為有推動斑斑有鮮奶的政策而造成說這個狀況非常潦草所以說我們避免不適當的狀況然後讓所有的這些老師家長們都這個"},{"start":31997.651,"end":32023.797,"text":"手足無錯那這樣子應該很合理吧那個部長有話要說我們給部長說一下這是最終版喔印給大家之後不好意思我們先等到最後先印給我們不然我們不知道怎麼討論欸很多委員手上沒有國會聯絡人後面張雅禮委員他們手上都沒有欸"},{"start":32027.578,"end":32042.162,"text":"我們只有原版的附帶決議沒有修正後的喔就用原版嗎?沒有沒有現在是要用修正還是沒有修正搞不清楚欸大家安靜一下喔那個部長有話要說"},{"start":32044.262,"end":32064.581,"text":"主席還有侯委員、各位委員這一個部分有關班班有先來這個政策確實其實當時是力量上希望讓這個學童有更好的一些這個鈣質的補充讓他有一個更好的一個健康的一個發展但是"},{"start":32067.1,"end":32087.306,"text":"當時教育部會配合確實也已經理解到已經有14個縣市他們都已經結合在營養午餐或者在10點的這個課間期間已經在推動所以我們在想說這一個就教育部的立場我們本來就是關心學童的一個發展"},{"start":32088.126,"end":32111.172,"text":"但是政策要推到全國的時候它確實也造成了一些混亂那我想這一個我們來悉心改進是不是能夠懇請這一個紅委員就是說我們這個教育部在配合這一個農業部這一個部分推動斑斑有電先來這個有一些文字上的一個改變這個"},{"start":32113.753,"end":32130.718,"text":"文字上必包含延遲譴責教育部、私立部州這些,是不是也能夠,我想我們許多的政策利益良善,但是我們習性改善,那也同時是不是能夠把這樣的字句能夠修正。"},{"start":32134.059,"end":32149.849,"text":"以及包括這個立法院的教育文化委員會報告後才能夠推行跨部會的因為我們確實有其中央不僅教育部不僅是跟跨部會在合作事實上我們教育部也跟地方政府有非常多的一些合作特別在"},{"start":32151.23,"end":32168.621,"text":"國民教育這個階段我們很多的政策也都需要跟地方來合作是不是我們虛心改善這一個也感謝洪委員的一個提醒但是這一個在這個質疑上是不是能夠著以這個修正以上謝謝"},{"start":32169.642,"end":32194.181,"text":"好 那個紅委員來 部長這樣子部長以教育部的大家長身份確實也講了第一 我們委員大家都是支持要學童補鈣只是你要用什麼方法但是這一次的方法確實讓全台灣的學校的老師、家長人也要麻煩學生人也要麻煩但教育部長剛剛已經有說了所以我做幾個建議大家聽聽看如果可以的話我們大家一起支持"},{"start":32195.202,"end":32210.888,"text":"第一、教育部這次是配合農業部所以說教育部配合農業部那行政院第一行的行政院算是拿掉那中間第五行嚴正譴責教育部私律不周教育部認為是私律有周只是方法有不好的地方"},{"start":32211.348,"end":32231.841,"text":"我們把這一句拿掉那以及最後立法院教育文化委員會書面報告好不好我再一次強調喔並不是因為你們的解釋說明有講說有什麼宣導啦內政部啦衛福部很多的一個政策但是我們在上面已經寫得非常清楚涉及教育相關政策"},{"start":32233.092,"end":32255.72,"text":"教育部配合或者是說跟其他部會推動涉及教育相關政策的時候應該事前謹慎評估並且向立法院教育文化委員會書面報告後使得推行我想這樣子應該大家都很中性也很可以理解吧如果說可以的話我們這樣子的文字修正動作可以嗎還沒有還有委員要表達意見葉元之先然後陳培語然後林怡瑾"},{"start":32257.091,"end":32276.193,"text":"我覺得斑斑有些人這個確實是農業部在推啦教育部配合啦但是教育部在這個過程當中應該也有很多建議權啦要把教學現場的狀況反映給農業部這個案子後來無疾而終的主要就是因為教學現場沒辦法配合而且農業部很扯的是他們包酒路也不夠所以整個壓力都在老師"},{"start":32277.554,"end":32290.701,"text":"跟學校的身上其實我覺得教育部也是蠻衰的可是你們在前面的決策過程當中要勇於跟他們溝通阿那我覺得這個案子的意義是在於說未來還會有很多斑斑出現阿我上次看到還有斑斑吃雞蛋阿"},{"start":32293.062,"end":32320.37,"text":"然後還有不是一樣嘛就是說今天有吃雞蛋上次有斑斑吃石斑然後又有然後斑斑石斑石斑不夠之後又變成斑斑好食材斑斑不斷的重複出現可是這不見得是教育部你們想要推的嘛所以你要勇於就是接受到農業部的訊息的時候勇於跟他溝通嘛站在學校的立場我覺得是這樣不然的話你們每次一直來這邊背其實搞不好部長每次都很無奈啊他從來不反駁一句話"},{"start":32325.939,"end":32346.706,"text":"陳培委員,我想大家對於學童補鈣的政策絕對都支持,我是不是可以建議這樣子,因為說實話我們立法權跟行政權應該是各自獨立,那我認為一旦有跨部會的事情確實需要更多的配套,更多的討論,也需要更多的時間,但如果"},{"start":32347.446,"end":32370.151,"text":"一旦教育部要做相關政策有跨部會就要來跟教育文化委員會報告我必須說我自己認為我們是越權了我們立法權我們只能監督那難道我們以後說不行那教育部或是我們還有文化部我們還有國科會我們還有和安會是不是所有行政機關我們還有體育署之後我們還會有運動部呢"},{"start":32370.931,"end":32396.326,"text":"是不是他們什麼事情都不能做所以我要強烈的表達我非常謝謝洪孟凱委員您在剛剛非常多字句的調整但是我還是要積極的建議應該不是向教育文化委員會報告後使得推行我覺得這真的是逾越了我們相關的權利謝謝好 那個你要讓盧廷偉委員先講嗎那等一下好 盧委員先 待會林益錦委員"},{"start":32397.176,"end":32426.153,"text":"我想那個洪孟楷委員所說的報告並不是說要經過我們同意我想這個可能大家稍微講清楚就好那但是都是希望政策在執行中納入更廣泛的意見那當然也不一定要教育文化委員會的委員報告可以跟全體委員報告大家一起來努力然後看這個政策在執行上是不是有更多的疏漏避免下一個班班有什麼造成問題所以我覺得這個事情這句應該不用改吧"},{"start":32426.553,"end":32452.75,"text":"另外我要再問一下部長部長部長我只是問你而已因為你有答應過嘛就是說這一個斑斑有鮮奶未來是不是在附帶決議再繼續寫下去就是說你們願意持續採補助的一個狀況看各縣市政府要不要做各縣市政府如果要做願意承接下來這個業務去領取你這個補助那就繼續執行所以是不是附帶決議也繼續寫下去"},{"start":32456.903,"end":32474.862,"text":"稍後林益景委員再發言,還是你先發言?那你不是之前也有行政也有配合的預算嗎?好,那個羅廷偉委員你發言完了嗎?好,那林益景委員發言完之後,我建議我們休息5分鐘之後再處理這個,好不好?好,協商一下問題,好,林益景委員先。"},{"start":32476.772,"end":32491.577,"text":"博翔教好不好因為實驗的關係我具體建議啦齁就是說剛剛孟凱委員講的就是刪掉欸謝謝孟凱委員就是說中間施力不周覺得好帥這個齁有要刪掉這個字句那是不是在容我建議喔就是說在呃"},{"start":32493.157,"end":32516.756,"text":"倒數第三行就是什麼事前審慎評估妥善規劃這邊後面那一句是不是也把它刪掉就並向立法院教育及文化委員會書面報告使得推行就妥善規劃之後就直接接後面避免類似怎樣這樣是不是就再刪掉這一句話那這樣的話是不是比較OK這是我的建議"},{"start":32521.419,"end":32548.345,"text":"趙偉說才是休息5分鐘差不多有共識了啦這樣子啦我想我們委員提出來也都希望是行政部門要做一個不要誒說實在話你們推政策出來然後大家抱怨然後你們自己再結束其實拍框是你不是爛的所以我現在講啦這樣子啦來謝謝部長這樣子啦使得兩個字拿掉好不好"},{"start":32549.528,"end":32577.625,"text":"像立法院教育文化委員會書面報告後推行那你至少你們要做什麼這些部分都讓我們知道不是使得使得的部分有一點像是說要同意才能夠推嘛主席才是我們現在要的是說因為有一些重大的政策的部分你總是還是要第一時間智慧讓教育文化委員會的委員知道是說你到底是要做什麼大象的部分這樣可以吧因為意見蠻不一致的我們休息五分鐘之後繼續討論好"},{"start":32582.323,"end":32591.405,"text":"委員這個我要拜託因為每一樣很多的跨部會的合作跟地方合作如果都要跟委員會報告我想這個其實部長你講完之後我們就休息一分鐘好嗎衛福部我們有陰害防治內政部我們有青年租屋補貼等等的這些"},{"start":32604.008,"end":32604.628,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":32622.466,"end":32636.578,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":32646.966,"end":32647.647,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":32668.86,"end":32676.248,"text":"我兒子以前有個學校的兔子叫斑斑,他每個人照顧他,有一天斑斑死掉了,全部人都哭了,害我兒子繼續心理諮商給這群小孩,因為斑斑死了"},{"start":32692.884,"end":32694.904,"text":"這個園區的企劃怎麼執行?然後還有要如何又如何能"},{"start":32715.129,"end":32715.89,"text":"委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":32730.537,"end":32731.438,"text":"內容亦包括該園區計畫具體資訊、方式及"},{"start":32759.376,"end":32762.979,"text":"如何符合南部產業發展並與廣邀其他大學自參與,如中山大學和一成功大學等。"},{"start":33029.035,"end":33034.257,"text":"一、繼續開會請大家回座位好嗎?"},{"start":33057.584,"end":33060.054,"text":"我們現在先處理第一個附帶決議"},{"start":33065.463,"end":33090.915,"text":"教育部配合農業部推動斑斑有鮮奶政策,但規劃不周倉促上路,以造成教學現場混亂,校方及師生極大困擾。該政策施行僅三個月,行政院及宣布下學期停辦。政策遭令細改,浪費政府公帑及耗費社會龐大資源。如同先前斑斑失實斑於決策混亂情況,"},{"start":33092.035,"end":33115.627,"text":"災部未來配合農業部推行涉及教育相關政策時應作事前審慎評估妥善規劃並向立法院教育及文化委員會書面報告使得推行避免類似上述不適當政策浪費教育資源及困擾學校失聲情況再次發生提案人侯孟凱、萬美玲"},{"start":33116.687,"end":33121.269,"text":"科職人業援資、葛如軍、羅廷瑋教育部這樣子OK嗎?部長心情很不好,他勉為尊重委員"},{"start":33135.96,"end":33144.145,"text":"請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣請問一下阿欣"},{"start":33160.114,"end":33182.876,"text":"是沒有錯但是因為這個是是向立法院教育文化委員會是我們所有的委員我還是想要表達我的意見我是覺得使得兩個字拿掉回到預算法會比較恰當好啦接受好不好就是書面報告後推行好不好但重點我們的重點是避免不要再有不適當的政策浪費教育資源好不好好"},{"start":33183.956,"end":33188.998,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立"},{"start":33200.582,"end":33205.965,"text":"附帶決議是剛剛的預算提案596364附帶決議有關國家重點領域校際研教園區先導計畫自115年起應改由經濟部編列以避免排擠教育部預算並請教育部於114年度提出專案報告"},{"start":33220.871,"end":33247.382,"text":"內容應包括該園區計劃之具體執行方式及如何活化南部產業發展與廣邀其他大學之參與如國立中山大學、國立成功大學等令高雄市政府、清大、陽明交大應提出在本計劃中更具體之承諾並應邀出席專案報告提案人萬美玲、柯智恩、林倩琦、葛如軍、張雅玲"},{"start":33248.536,"end":33252.299,"text":"第63案、第64案、第59案凍結3000萬元專案報告後解凍還有兩個臨時提案"},{"start":33274.042,"end":33292.072,"text":"我跟你們說還有一些案子齁臨時提案教育部是不是都已經文字修正後通過一個是文字修正後配合辦理齁那一個是兩個都是陳培委員還有陳培委員跟郭育群委員的好 修正通過後辦理"},{"start":33297.987,"end":33309.774,"text":"審查結果免予重複宣讀,在不影響文藝前提下授權醫事人員一、一四年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理,列入紀錄。"},{"start":33312.076,"end":33334.996,"text":"114年度行政法人國家運動訓練中心預算案114年度行政法人國家運動科學中心預算案均與審查完均,不需交由黨團協商關於今天會議如下決議114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部及所屬單位預算案教育部主管47所國立大學校院"},{"start":33335.817,"end":33342.043,"text":"一部所屬機構作業基金、國立高級中等學校校務基金、學產基金、運動發展基金、私立高級中等以上學校退場基金一項全部審查完畢。"},{"start":33355.136,"end":33377.181,"text":"14年度行政法人國家運動訓練中心預算案及國家運動科學中心預算案均審查完據,擬據審查報告提報院會不須交由黨團協商,院會討論時由范昭吉委員允補充說明,對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分,請相關機關尽速以書面答覆。"},{"start":33378.713,"end":33399.09,"text":"報文會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位委員教育部的部長、次長大家、署長大家辛苦了辛苦了辛苦了部長抱病來啊辛苦辛苦是不是要跟部長一起拍照我們要那個跨黨派一起還是要分開拍"},{"start":33400.794,"end":33407.091,"text":"一起好了一起好了我們教文超越黨派為教文的精神最後都沒有要送黨團協商的"},{"start":33411.765,"end":33421.089,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案有關教育部主管47所屬單位預算案"},{"start":33442.039,"end":33442.399,"text":"先看中間"},{"start":33454.982,"end":33473.588,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期教育及文化委員會第12屆第3會期教育及國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院"},{"start":33476.938,"end":33478.239,"text":"中間再補一下OK嗎?謝謝大家"},{"start":33494.193,"end":33495.914,"text":"大本文大本文這都不用"},{"start":33526.204,"end":33526.824,"text":"市委那我再問個什麼?"},{"start":33537.554,"end":33557.086,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案有關教育部主管47所國立大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學附設醫院作業基金、國立成功大學"}]}},{"id":"16419","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16419","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528ec7e719fa4ce89b4fea5b031af9c32cfd6d1319bf84c9168214a4fe8ca9f124325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分，關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司（含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司、臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司）。（處理）\n【12月25日及26日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:30:44+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T10:46:00+08:00","duration":8116,"影片長度":"02:15:16","委員發言時間":"08:30:44 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t":"通案共三案第一案依製三案而主決於第一案各國營金融事業機構員工致命的82年度起辦理員工薪給調整時配額並銷之午餐費數額迄今於30年未見調整建起財政部考量各國營金融事業機構員工應一體適用與提升同仁士氣及競爭文成一爭等三案提案第二案建起財政部原意鬆綁現行用人費薪給"},{"start":2116.565,"end":2131.525,"text":"管理要點及經營績效獎金實施要點．比照分工股銀行調高至4.6個月．並比照同業一獲利狀況提撥一定比例1%至8%的員工報酬的酬勞．文成益徵等三項提案．第三案"},{"start":2132.686,"end":2156.24,"text":"建起財政部研議修訂相關法規為構建固定資產預算之一般建築及設備計劃部分除房屋及建築中資、興建或構置各項辦公房屋、宿舍與交通及運輸設備中資、構置管理用車輛及增加國庫負擔經費者外其餘項目也有需要自行辦理並補辦預算委員陳玉珍等上任提案中國輸出入銀行提案部分共15案第一案"},{"start":2157.711,"end":2178.901,"text":"本期金利增列3000萬元委員李坤城等三人提案。第二案本期金利增列1000萬元委員賴世保等三人提案。第三案業務費用向下服務費用減列300萬元委員賴世保等三人提案。第四案服務費用減列200萬元委員郭國文等三人提案。第五案營業費用向下之業務"},{"start":2180.779,"end":2189.882,"text":"鄉下業務費用之服務費用凍結500萬元為賴會員等三項提案第6案服務費用凍結500萬元為賴會員等三項提案第7案服務費用凍結500萬元為賴會員等三項提案第8案管理費用減略200萬元為賴市保等三項提案第9案"},{"start":2199.284,"end":2215.129,"text":"主決於中國輸出入銀行110至112年度期間對我國對新南向國家出口金額曾增加情形為仍依次度拓展相關輸出保險業務原要求中國輸出入銀行提出書面檢討報告為李坤城等三案提案"},{"start":2216.469,"end":2239.117,"text":"請中國輸出入銀行針對中國輸出入銀行轉融資業務區域拓展不足及越南SCB貸款預期清償問題處置之檢討與改進為題提出書面報告、文言寬恒等三項提案第11案請中國輸出入銀行針對綠色永續貸款集中化現象與全面落實ESG原則推廣策略之檢討為題提出書面報告、文言寬恒等三項提案"},{"start":2239.677,"end":2260.394,"text":"第12案（輸出入銀行（中國輸出入銀行河貸至綠色永續貸款案件（屬單一類別者相對集中之現象（且社會S類件數、金額均掛零（擁有持續努力推展之空間（委員過關等三案提案第13案（要求中國輸出入銀行應提高所屬員工生意津貼至少12萬元以上（"},{"start":2261.295,"end":2283.837,"text":"並提出書面報告為賴氏堡等三案提案第14案要求中國輸出銀行對當年度營餘超過法定數時應針對超額營餘部分在提月10%至20%時發給員工分紅並提出書面報告為賴氏堡等三案提案第15案要求中國輸出銀行比較新制勞退雇主每個月必須為勞工至少提繳1500元員工也對等提繳"},{"start":2284.998,"end":2306.596,"text":"存入員工、退休金、理財專戶、投資、上市櫃、公股銀行並提出數目報告為賴氏寶等三案提案臺灣金融控股股份有限公司提案共8案第一案本期金利增列3億元為賴氏寶等三案提案第二案營業費用向下、管理費用、致服務費用為凍結100萬元為賴會員等三案提案第三案"},{"start":2308.137,"end":2325.798,"text":"管理分額向下服務分額之推展費減列400萬元為王洪輝等三項提案。主決議第4案要求臺灣金融控股就其子公司、臺灣銀行應如何提升永續指標確信項目提出順利報告委員郭國文等三項提案。第5案要求臺灣金融控股股份有限公司與應積極督促該子公司"},{"start":2328.615,"end":2347.675,"text":"原謀業務改善策對策與提升營運績效及改善財務結構並提出書面報告委員李坤誠等三人提案。第2案要求臺灣金控就如有提升臺銀人壽經營績效及舉在政治計劃優化進行檢討並提出書面報告委員吳秉內等三人提案。第7案有限臺灣金融"},{"start":2349.037,"end":2368.391,"text":"臺灣金融接到主要營業項目經營趨勢（包含遵循國家2050進行排放陸金與綠色金融3.0（僅有編列研究發展費用（未建起明確工作計畫及步驟（請臺灣金融控股股份有限公司擬定具體工作計畫（並提出輸入報告（委員吳立法等三案提案（第8案"},{"start":2370.185,"end":2385.231,"text":"各國營事業機構目前員工生意補助每台發給補助兩千元至一萬元不等建請在佣金費可支應前提下以實際行動降低年輕員工預負擔營造幸福友善職場亦有助於促進事業機構永續發展"},{"start":2387.555,"end":2402.515,"text":"臺灣銀行股份有限公司提案共28案第一案本期金利增列3億元為耐市保等三案提案第二案營業副用向下業務副用支付付費凍結1000萬元為耐會員等三案提案第三案"},{"start":2403.496,"end":2406.078,"text":"服務費用凍結一千萬元為賴會員等三人提案"},{"start":2433.976,"end":2445.903,"text":"服務費用凍結100萬元為賴慧玲陳佩玉等4人提案第12案業務費用向下服務費用之理運費減略100萬元為郭國文等3人提案第13案"},{"start":2447.971,"end":2473.184,"text":"業務費用向下服務費用之修理保養與保固費減略100萬元為李坤城等三人提案第14案修理保養與保固費凍結600萬元為吳立華等三人提案第15案業務費用向下租金與利息之交通及運輸設備租金減略100萬元為郭國文等三人提案第16案管理費用減略1200萬元為賴世保等三人提案第17案"},{"start":2473.784,"end":2500.103,"text":"營業部分向下其他營業費用之研究發展費用減約一千萬元為王宏威等三人提案。主決議第18案請臺灣銀行針對貴金屬業務及貴金屬商品太陽精進作為為題提出書面報告為袁寬恆等三人提案。第19案請臺灣銀行針對臺銀籃球隊未來發展及展望為題提出書面報告為袁寬恆等三人提案。第20案請臺灣銀行於三個月內完成相關組隊性"},{"start":2501.864,"end":2514.082,"text":"信憑原則與求人工會參與改善規劃並提出書面報告委員代會員陳培宇等私人提案第二十一案臺銀行因研議臺藝男子籃球隊加入籃球職業聯盟之可能性"},{"start":2515.517,"end":2538.272,"text":"暨可增加業務收入一臂力．求對越南人持續蓬勃發展．並提出書面報告委員羅明財等三領提案。．第22案．請臺灣銀行針對．高資產客戶適用之金融商品及服務進度．計劃委體提出書面報告委員袁寬恆等三領提案。．第23案．臺銀行為國營銀行堅務推動政策業務之任務．有限臺灣金控揭露主要營業項目經營趨勢．針對"},{"start":2541.814,"end":2560.99,"text":"（針對嚴重民族保留地信貸等相關業務之推動未見說明（請臺灣銀行股份有限公司提出書面報告（委員吳立法等三人提案（第二十四案（請臺灣銀行公司（針對社會性案件ESG檢核通過與未通過之審議程序及標準（提出書面報告（委員王世堅等三人提案（第二十五案（臺銀行迄今卻"},{"start":2562.391,"end":2588.901,"text":"為取得高資產客戶適用之金融商品及服務辦理資格與之所有專業證照人才和整合型團隊支援卻未能實際投入市場競爭要求臺灣銀行及早延宜規劃取得辦理該業務資格並提出書面報告為羅明財等三頁提案第26案要求臺灣銀行應提高所屬員工生意津貼至少12萬元以上並提出書面報告為賴世保等三頁提案第27案要求臺灣銀行"},{"start":2590.321,"end":2617.294,"text":"對當年度營餘超過法定數值應針對超額營餘部分（在提月10%至20%發給員工分紅（並提出書面報告、委員代事報等三頁提案。第18案（要求臺銀行比照新資勞退雇主每個月必須為員工至少提繳1500元（員工也對等提繳（存入員工退休金理財專務投資上市櫃供股銀行（並提出書面報告。臺銀行人壽保險股份有限公司提案公列案。"},{"start":2618.237,"end":2632.316,"text":"第一案 投資性不動產費用減列一千兩百萬元為王宏威等三人提案第二案 業務費用減列四百萬元為耐世保等三人提案第三案 管理費用減列三百萬元為耐世保等三人提案第四案 主決議"},{"start":2633.477,"end":2655.163,"text":"臺銀人壽已成立近20年,財務上仍應持續加強,創造獲利。要求臺銀人壽就入合提升經營績效,提出書面報告,委員吳秉銳等三項提案。第五案,臺銀人壽針對近年轉型之相關措施及規劃為何,請提出書面報告,委員郭國恩等三項提案。第六案,臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．於接軌IFAS-17"},{"start":2657.143,"end":2670.894,"text":"與新一代清償能力制度應審慎評估其缺口資本缺口是否適足以健全資本結構並提出書面報告王世堅等三人提案臺銀中央證券股份有限公司提案共兩案第一案"},{"start":2672.145,"end":2673.206,"text":"宣讀完畢9點50開始協商現在休息"},{"start":4973.1,"end":5001.713,"text":"好,我們先進入那個就是協商那財政部的通案第一案那個主決議跟陳一貞委員提出那第二案主決議也是陳一貞委員提出第三案主決議也是陳一貞委員提出那是不是就是說這個財政部這個通案我們那個暫時等一下再處理因為現在那個國民黨的委員沒有人在"},{"start":5004.166,"end":5032.294,"text":"對那財政部說明一下好不好報告報告召委那麼這個通案的部分那第一個是關於我們那個就是火石會要提高到3000元的部分那跟員工的福利有關那麼這個部分我們就遵照辦理"},{"start":5033.1,"end":5036.747,"text":"遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理"},{"start":5037.281,"end":5038.202,"text":"財政部主管中華民國12月25日及26日"},{"start":5067.902,"end":5068.002,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":5085.7,"end":5104.959,"text":"主席好,我們這邊是行政組織總署不好意思,因為這個案子其實是涉及我們預算法還有相關預算執行的規定我們這邊其實是有一些建議希望委員可不可以稍微修正文字因為委員不在,那我先跟各位在場委員稍微說明可是這個是建請案,建請的案子"},{"start":5106.66,"end":5120.036,"text":"因為這個文字裡面有提到說是建請財政部去研議修訂相關法規可是因為財政部建議上那個相關法規是本總書在阻擇他不太可能去修訂這個法規那我們是建議可不可以改正他去檢討"},{"start":5121.677,"end":5146.712,"text":"讓他來檢討,檢討後把相關的文字給我們總署再來去處理那因為這個提案這樣寫可能會有一點問題再來是不是一定要修訂那其實也不一定可能是有什麼其他的方式來處理這個國營事業目前遇到的問題所以我們建議是不是可以把這個修訂改成檢討那如果委員有意見我們等一下可以再說明好謝謝"},{"start":5150.658,"end":5151.098,"text":"是,是"},{"start":5159.955,"end":5187.392,"text":"對,對,對,不要熊丙對,檢討,檢討,對檢討,對,檢討對,那後段的文字因為委員有落了好,那我們就原意檢討恰主計總處原意檢討這樣子好不好那還有一點不好意思就是因為後面有把這個檢討想要的文字都落上來了我們這部分其實是建議是不是可以不要在提案裡面去落因為它這個直接就是說要放寬"},{"start":5190.269,"end":5217.145,"text":"應該是後面的文字可能不要落啦你把文字修正出來應該是因為是說到底財政部要怎麼建議這個文字其實可能一下子還沒有辦法出來那我們是不是建議補落文字好那至少可不可以改成檢討這樣子對因為我們本來想說怕這個文字其實對大院會不太好那他是建請案子啊所以基本上是沒有那麼大的一個關係啦好那我們只好就改成檢討好"},{"start":5220.283,"end":5221.424,"text":"緣建請財政部洽組織總署研議檢討相關法規"},{"start":5236.811,"end":5240.094,"text":"修正通過我們進入中國輸出入銀行第一案 甄烈請說明"},{"start":5262.088,"end":5288.494,"text":"報告召委還有報告委員那麼第一案跟第二案都是跟禁利有關那昨天我們有跟李昆城委員報告那也獲他的同意那麼第二案也是那賴市保委員辦公室也同意是不是建請第一案、第二案並案處理那麼昨天就稅前禁利一千萬元那麼收支科目執行調整"},{"start":5289.002,"end":5296.407,"text":"同意增列稅前盡力一千萬"},{"start":5305.926,"end":5306.407,"text":"科目自行調整"},{"start":5335.626,"end":5338.286,"text":"第3案及第4案我們同意可以並案同意檢列業務費用及業務費用內的服務費用200萬科目自行調整"},{"start":5363.271,"end":5391.003,"text":"是 謝謝那麼報告召委那麼第5案、第6案、第7案都是跟業務費用向下的服務費用相關昨天也徵得召委的同意就是第5案、第6案、第7案並案不是並案就是同樣都用免以凍結改為阻絕役提出書面報告第5案、第6案、第7案好,第5案"},{"start":5392.148,"end":5403.722,"text":"第6案、第7案均改成主決議進入到第8案第8案的部分這裡就是關於營業費用向下的管理費用"},{"start":5408.847,"end":5423.311,"text":"這個管理費用事實上也跟我們員工的這些用人費率他的薪資、加班費、獎金、退休金等等都有關這一部分是不是我們可以建請就是可以簡略為50萬元科目就自行調整"},{"start":5433.521,"end":5444.909,"text":"第8案,我想在場的委員有沒有針對第8案有其他的一個建議嗎?賴委員要減100萬賴司保委員要減100萬,我們在場的委員有沒有其他的一個意見?"},{"start":5455.14,"end":5456.081,"text":"第9案改成主決議第10案"},{"start":5484.563,"end":5503.659,"text":"第11案遵照辦理第12案遵照辦理第13案12案的部分那個那個就這個綠色永續貸款的部分從件數或金額其實都有很明顯的成長"},{"start":5504.52,"end":5518.716,"text":"但是畢竟是ESG的相關計畫我看了一下其實我們都過度集中於在綠色永續的貸款看S的部分社會責任的部分卻是掛鈴就件數跟金額都掛鈴"},{"start":5519.977,"end":5534.324,"text":"昨天我有質詢到有關於這個中東歐的這個專案的部分那是不是可以從這個角度來進行說外交配合或有所貢獻來提升這個S的這個部分把它納入我覺得這個方向是可以去處理的"},{"start":5534.984,"end":5555.167,"text":"那因為就產業別的供應鏈的移轉將來你們也會做一些配合那這個部分也是不是符合所謂S社會責任的部分那你們可以從這邊考慮加進去這樣你們的整個數字上會比較呈現出來你們具體做的內容還有貢獻我這部分我是真的做這樣的建議跟處理"},{"start":5557.13,"end":5573.187,"text":"財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．關於財政部主管中國�"},{"start":5573.447,"end":5573.987,"text":"郭文貴議員12案改成主決議"},{"start":5600.424,"end":5621.79,"text":"第13案賴氏堡委員這個是主決議我們就遵照辦理主記拿麥克風講好不好因為委員這邊寫的是英其實昨天有提到未來要怎麼調整其實就要看可不可以改成原意因為現在是寫英"},{"start":5624.242,"end":5653.137,"text":"對 看你們敢演 因為未來要怎麼檢討其實要看後面的處理嘛 以上暈了 本來就應該暈了 寫演藝的分離啊寫演藝幹什麼你們都不同意啊 這演藝代表你們不同意啊就我昨天講 這代表你們不同意啊 暈才是同意啊我當然要暈啊 不可以你們不同意我就不要去 要暈不可以 不可以 不可以什麼演藝 沒有這回事 就是暈"},{"start":5655.475,"end":5658.177,"text":"好來進入到第14案"},{"start":5684.048,"end":5706.746,"text":"第13案就是那個賴斯堡委員就是來我們就遵照辦理好遵照辦理遵照辦理第14案那個請賴斯堡委員來說明一下那這一部分就暗油的部分我們是在這個暗油裡面文字的第二行後端他引的那個比例依照現行的規定是106%"},{"start":5708.827,"end":5731.006,"text":"這一部分我們也把這個緣由跟委員辦公室做過說明那也獲口頭的同意那是不是可以做這個文字的修正那麼修正以後我們本行會遵照辦理修正什麼?那個達成率只有106只有修正那個才可以喔其他不要保修就那麼多沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":5733.295,"end":5737.919,"text":"臺灣金融控股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險"},{"start":5760.487,"end":5762.928,"text":"臺灣金融控股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司"},{"start":5782.475,"end":5782.976,"text":"建請財政部洽請主計總署"},{"start":5803.443,"end":5832.391,"text":"通案通案的這是3是吧我這裡是不是不是不是2通案的2通案的2你把那個對剛剛主席總書說是請財政部洽主席總書研議只有研議嘛然後把後面那些要點都刪掉嘛但是這樣刪掉以後變成是沒有沒有重點啦就是變成非常"},{"start":5833.686,"end":5834.106,"text":"主席"},{"start":5848.817,"end":5872.153,"text":"好,來,來,董事長,來進入第一案,掙掠這個本期金額第一案是要掙掠我們金控的一個稅錢合併的稅錢淨利那因為我們考慮到這個銀行其實這個整個金控的獲利的主要的來源就是銀行端那銀行因為受到這個美國降息的影響所以利差縮小,我們的換匯的獲利應該沒有辦法像113年這樣的一個獲利的狀況"},{"start":5877.576,"end":5903.409,"text":"人壽的部分因為受到匯率很大的影響所以每年都要做一些避險人壽避險每個月的大概費用要5.3億全年大概64億所以我們建議這個要增列的部分是不是建議是增列3億元改成增列上述的合併稅前淨利是3億元科目自行調整另外就是"},{"start":5907.172,"end":5929.07,"text":"請問在場的議員有沒有意見那賴司保委員那顯然這個已經就是那因為本案跟銀行有關所以我們是不是跟銀行的第一案就併案處理銀行的第一案也是要增加我們的盈餘的部分3億那是不是這兩個一起併案處理"},{"start":5932.643,"end":5938.851,"text":"相關的成本跟收入的調整項目請將資料送給議事人員"},{"start":5953.066,"end":5965.291,"text":"好那我在這個第一案我再那個念一次同意爭略合併稅前的淨利3億元科目自行調整來進入到第二案"},{"start":5967.265,"end":5992.836,"text":"第二案就有關這個ESG的部分那這部分我們也有跟這個委員有口頭做一些做的說明那因為本集團的ESG過去主要都是以臺灣銀行來做推動那人壽跟證券這個因為它的規模比較小沒有關係已經改成主席議了我們就不談了來修正通過第三案簡略案來說明"},{"start":5994.517,"end":6020.353,"text":"第三案呢是我們的這個業務推廣費那這個是業務推廣所必須那我們114年度是編列1980萬元那到目前為止就是我們113年到目前為止我們大概已經執行了1752萬元那這裡要刪減到400萬元其實對我們整個業務的推廣是有蠻大的影響所以我們這建議是不是就著刪就好了不要刪這麼多啊好紅衛委員請發言"},{"start":6024.407,"end":6044.705,"text":"昨天你們有提我大概有兩百萬是不是?兩百萬已經是最少的了,好不好?兩百萬可以了?科目字條啊!科目字條?對啊!科目字條就這幾例,沒關係啦!好好好,尊重尊重,欸可以再減少一點嗎?"},{"start":6045.9,"end":6047.901,"text":"臺灣金融控股"},{"start":6062.27,"end":6062.41,"text":"臺灣金控"},{"start":6091.169,"end":6095.153,"text":"臺灣金融控股份有限公司、臺灣金融控股份有限公司、臺灣金融控股份"},{"start":6115.934,"end":6118.298,"text":"請問在場的委員有沒有其他的意見"},{"start":6125.206,"end":6152.927,"text":"這裏銀行這裏銀行對好那我們第一案的正列案本期淨利3億那正列稅前淨利2.5億元科目自行調整來進入到第二案第二案已經向委員溝通了好第三案第三案也是經過委員同意修正好第四案該組決議對第五案"},{"start":6153.407,"end":6153.928,"text":"改組決議改組決議改組決議"},{"start":6174.175,"end":6178.539,"text":"改組決議第11案也是改組決議進入第12案第12遵照辦理"},{"start":6188.892,"end":6190.133,"text":"第13案 捐贈拜禮"},{"start":6208.926,"end":6210.967,"text":"並案簡列第13案跟第14案"},{"start":6222.492,"end":6246.494,"text":"第15案遵照辦理,第16案檢列,那是保委員這個有跟委員溝通了,提案委員溝通這個我們是建議是檢列200萬,客戶自行調整不行啦,你這個預算變10億勒10億而且你那個實現率這麼低這個10億一爬就一千萬了"},{"start":6248.232,"end":6249.373,"text":"根委員報告"},{"start":6270.8,"end":6271.28,"text":"9成是人事費"},{"start":6288.988,"end":6291.71,"text":"同意檢列管理費用300萬科目自行調整進入第17案檢列營業費用"},{"start":6312.202,"end":6333.002,"text":"第17案我們建議是不是就是減100萬因為減了1000萬對我們整個研發的費用的影響是很大的因為我們未來要做的不是未來其實是在年度進行當中就有非常多的一些研發的費用包括一些專利的申請還有我們這種鼓勵這個金融科技的發展的一些創新研發"},{"start":6333.723,"end":6334.143,"text":"11月25日及26日"},{"start":6363.527,"end":6374.103,"text":"因為它這個是有一些前瞻性的研發啦那你不能說你今年沒有前瞻性到明年才有前瞻性嗎那有一些是既定的你看你增加多少"},{"start":6375.925,"end":6381.431,"text":"你比今年增加了400多萬對不對今年預算多少今年是執行了3200萬大概2400萬"},{"start":6398.048,"end":6424.403,"text":"那個是執行數啦執行數啦執行數多少沒有我們年度還沒有執行完那麼到上個月為止大概是2400萬上個月11月才2400萬嘛11月那你們只有這一個年度就有前瞻性你們真的沒有用到那麼多啦不是因為不是只有我可以稍微就是我把那個大概400萬好不好"},{"start":6425.589,"end":6427.33,"text":"請問你這個錢是不是都是委外的?"},{"start":6454.174,"end":6462.703,"text":"自己我們有一個創新研發你們基本上就是委外給大部分都委外啊來你講一下3000多萬委外花多少錢"},{"start":6463.837,"end":6488.472,"text":"委員會多少?最少3000萬我跟你講但是因為我們有一個創新研發中心啊創新研發中心是去年才設立的對嘛,你們大部分都是委外來做,外面替你們做的嘛寫報告,對不對?這個都寫報告什麼沒有沒有沒有,研發是要自己內部系統要什麼系統但是你都是用外面的專業的進來幫忙嘛是不是這樣?我們有一組同仁,有一組同仁多少人?大概十幾個"},{"start":6489.312,"end":6490.633,"text":"第17案研究發展費用減劣400萬科目自行調整"},{"start":6518.841,"end":6532.108,"text":"進入第18案遵照辦理第19案遵照辦理第20案遵照辦理第21案遵照辦理第22案"},{"start":6537.438,"end":6552.489,"text":"第二十三案,遵照辦理等一下,吳立幻委員,請換言因為這個部分我一直都很關心就是為了履行普惠金融的價值但是我在臺銀的預算數執行政府政策方面"},{"start":6553.289,"end":6578.001,"text":"委員會那個地方已經有做出雲保地的信用貸款的作業要點但是我好看我們好像沒有相關的說明不知道到底有沒有配合推動所以這個部分有嗎?剛剛說配合辦理我們會在一個月內提出書面報告那書面報告的就會把執行的成果會呈現所以是有成果的對對對對好謝謝好那"},{"start":6581.425,"end":6581.945,"text":"本來是想改組決議可是剛才"},{"start":6600.117,"end":6619.922,"text":"我是跟你講齁這個剛才這個我們有緣提到的齁那個你們這個發展費用過多啦結果都在做一些無意義的事我昨天執行就是在講24這個事情你臺銀不是普通銀行你百分之百關股"},{"start":6620.842,"end":6646.569,"text":"你是9家公民銀行股甚至公民銀行股34家你是龍頭銀行你在ESG這麼重要政府國家政策那要去推動的你竟然輸給義銀光是看你們那些表格你們根本就敷衍歧視你看人家那個義銀在ESG推動這個部分用ESG去檢驗這些企業給予他們貸款的額度"},{"start":6650.372,"end":6652.557,"text":"包括人家他審查以後"},{"start":6654.309,"end":6682.488,"text":"有給他通過但是負條件通過的是多少那不給他通過的是多少但是總共審查多少不但都有而且每一屆他都有金額那你沒有金額你在做貸款的你隨便塞幾件那種小金額借個幾百一兩千萬的你塞一塞那件數又不多那表示你對ESG你們根本沒有積極在推嘛所以我認為啦"},{"start":6683.749,"end":6685.049,"text":"市長,剛剛那個研究費用已經刪了400萬"},{"start":6705.29,"end":6709.372,"text":"已經刪了400萬,同為款簽案,第17案,一樣的研發費用,一樣這一筆喔,同樣的科目,所以你不要再刪了,同樣的科目就刪了300萬"},{"start":6724.179,"end":6724.98,"text":"你總共輸給五家銀行欸"},{"start":6751.94,"end":6752.2,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":6771.423,"end":6790.534,"text":"昨天您有追尋到這個問題那其實我們總經理有做回應那也就是說我們會比照其他的飯工股看他們怎麼樣去落實這個這個這樣的一個比如說ESG的一些報表啦或是一些一些轉一些揭露所以我們會比照其他的飯工股的同意來做一些揭露"},{"start":6791.454,"end":6814.202,"text":"因為你們是龍頭你們要做榜樣的銀行我認為啦以臺銀之嚴謹你們包括人員、人才的進階包括你們進到臺銀這些你們的錄取你們是很嚴謹的銀行你怎麼可能在所有這樣壽星那些1、2、3評估當中你列件數你沒有列金額"},{"start":6815.362,"end":6815.942,"text":"拜託不要再審理啦"},{"start":6836.943,"end":6857.736,"text":"但是我很尊重他欸他是前輩欸對我今天太佩服他了啦一公屋一包都不敢擠要先擠一包王委員的意思應該是說不要減那麼多啦是不是減少一點我們早幾年說不通啦我們早幾年就這麼佛心啦你聽我這個姓羅的啦賴思寶參考就好啦"},{"start":6866.722,"end":6868.024,"text":"你們兩位現在賴姓是國姓耶!國姓耶!但是你們一定要積極"},{"start":6884.56,"end":6896.957,"text":"臺銀不是普通銀行臺銀是龍頭銀行好不好我們希望各方面都可以是龍頭啦對對對對包括員工福利也可以是龍頭對對你們開銷也是龍頭不要這樣不要這樣開銷要少開銷要少謝謝"},{"start":6902.543,"end":6928.615,"text":"好 謝謝王世堅委員跟賴思寶委員那進入到第25案遵照辦理第26案26案是遵照辦理但是文字上面本來是只有臺灣銀行我們建議是要改成因為我們是整個集團嘛所以建議要求臺灣金控集團好文字修正為臺灣金控集團那第27案一樣就是臺灣銀行改成臺灣金控集團等一下來請"},{"start":6930.117,"end":6932.145,"text":"來主席來我們請讓主席說明一下來主席"},{"start":6934.741,"end":6960.855,"text":"第27案27跟主席還有各位委員報告因為我們國營市的待遇基本上還是要用我們的基本待遇授權原則辦理那是行政院定班的所以我們有關福利事項都要在用人費用限額內去處理那這個後面可能是可以要不要通案的去處理那可能要由在人總在通盤檢討研議所以我們今天是可以改成研議這樣"},{"start":6962.944,"end":6988.338,"text":"不可以,不可以。你們人事長還在施法委員會,漫活他呢?你把引擎你調出來,他不敢這樣講。就是要這樣子,你去瞧,你去瞧,你去瞧,就這樣子。不是,統一要去統一,我們這裡決定這樣子。他知道他那裡有問題,他去處理啊,他去處理啊。除非,總部長不支持。"},{"start":6989.418,"end":7011.838,"text":"因為我聽到的聲音是你你都是被那個輸入市場被他洗腦過的所以你沒有在講你表面上戰爭事實上沒有我聽到的聲音這樣子所以這裡我堅持一定要我等一下還會整個翻過來前面的有關於"},{"start":7013.479,"end":7042.357,"text":"特別是我們那三家臺土輸這三家的員工福利我們都要用因比照這個放空因比照而不是嚴厲比照因啦應該的因啦應該的比照是這個概念啦否則人才要凋零啦好人才不要來啦真的這倒是真的你們人市場在哪裡已經被我賣頓了我都說一包你這裡"},{"start":7043.097,"end":7064.838,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7064.938,"end":7071.321,"text":"第二十七案文字修正第二十八案一樣是臺灣銀行改成臺灣金控集團好文字修正"},{"start":7085.323,"end":7103.734,"text":"在進入臺灣人壽,人壽第一案請王宏輝來銀行說明一下人壽這邊說明第一案是投資性不動產的費用我們之前有跟王委員跟賴委員這邊的說明原來是要檢列預算數1200萬經過那個說明之後是檢列500萬但是這邊請"},{"start":7113.633,"end":7122.405,"text":"5百萬但是5百萬對我們而言的話那恐怕對我們114年執行會有一些困難因為我們113年預估執行數會達到1.58億那因為我們114年變1.65億嘛"},{"start":7129.073,"end":7152.306,"text":"再加上說我們14年因為我們這些那個商辦的那個施修棟、屋領超過20年那我們希望做一些整修提高我們的出租率提高租金所以說能不能請委員來同意我們減業100萬讓我們這邊提高我們那個不動產的收益這樣的呈現一個正向的發展那科目讓我們進行調整"},{"start":7153.646,"end":7153.826,"text":"主席"},{"start":7168.201,"end":7186.99,"text":"謝謝委員的幫忙來,投資性不動產費用減劣100萬科目自行調整第二案第二案是有關我們的業務費用那就是這邊我們就是同意減劣100萬元然後科目自行調整是,事保委員你這個決算6億多勒,變了7億多勒你還減100你有沒有好意思講勒"},{"start":7199.878,"end":7223.756,"text":"7億多,一趴就7百萬了,我還給你4百萬這麼少因為這個八成都是一些人事費用八成人事費用,你也有那7億的話乘以兩成也有1億多啊各位有沒有看一下,因為我們IFAS-7有很多IFAS-7的一些顧問費還有一些這些那個IFAS-7相關的問題你今天有賺錢嗎?我有賺錢"},{"start":7227.794,"end":7229.415,"text":"第二案就是業務會用簡略100萬科目自行調整第三案"},{"start":7247.844,"end":7266.134,"text":"第3項是我們的那個管理費用那我們之前也向那個賴委員的說明那前列300萬我們就是有溝通過是前列80萬我不同意啊不行不行不行你實現率這麼低才九成然後編了一塊兩億欸"},{"start":7269.045,"end":7269.906,"text":"約聘人員的那個那他也要調薪啊"},{"start":7282.605,"end":7283.665,"text":"對第三案簡略科目管理費用100萬科目自行調整"},{"start":7313.429,"end":7318.475,"text":"第4案就是遵照辦理第6案請王世堅委員做一個建議"},{"start":7325.338,"end":7352.336,"text":"謝謝主席我特別要跟臺銀人壽講一下就是說因為這個資本市足率現在因為新一代清償能力制度你們知道嘛就是IFRS這個部分那大家都在搶你們大概預估說受損業資金大概缺口是8000億到9000億就別人都做得很積極人家現在都在搶債那你們只增列"},{"start":7352.896,"end":7365.187,"text":"增加100億元的資本額所以你要趕快查你100億到底夠或不夠所以我才說那你趕快去做一個報告出來好不好不要搶都搶輸人家不要忘了"},{"start":7369.23,"end":7395.296,"text":"臺銀是龍頭銀行那你們的保險當然比較晚開始但是好歹不當龍頭至少也要在前面往上啊前面四分之一好不好謝謝委員的勉勵努力來辦理遵照辦理好 第6案那個遵不遵照辦理好 照案通過來進入到臺銀綜合證券第1案遵照辦理好"},{"start":7397.2,"end":7420.475,"text":"第二案 等一下讓王世堅委員做一個建議一下說明這個齁 你好歹就掛臺銀兩個字齁不管是保險啊、證券啊齁 都是要往榮童那個概念去衝啦當然你們比較晚開始 但是好歹這麼多年下來"},{"start":7422.217,"end":7439.776,"text":"111年在兩年前跟去年的評估你們都沒有進到前四分之一欸都沒有進到前四分之一所以我意思就是說你一個月內齁你去提出這一些你們的經濟計畫好不好"},{"start":7441.198,"end":7466.031,"text":"要當一回事就對了掛上臺銀兩個字就是有一個責任就是要做模範那就是要去衝龍頭就是這麼簡單好不好謝謝來那個事保那個前面的通案通123"},{"start":7468.513,"end":7489.403,"text":"通123啦這個那個當裡面啦什麼建傾我都要改成要那個財政部應該啦銀都是銀啦不會改成建傾啦因為這樣才能夠前後一致嘛不然後面的銀前面是建傾這很奇怪的是嗎?不會啦,讓他們自己再處理啦好不好"},{"start":7493.51,"end":7496.914,"text":"謝謝委員我想委員都是出於就是說要激勵我們國營的金融事業的員工"},{"start":7511.511,"end":7512.912,"text":"有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份"},{"start":7540.876,"end":7541.196,"text":"市長市長"},{"start":7573.028,"end":7580.212,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7590.263,"end":7610.396,"text":"請啦!請財政部來就好了啦!請啦!請啦!好啦!請就好了啦!你不要再在那裡蓋啊!你那請就好了啦!那時候立法委員就說請啊!就是這樣就好了!不然你剛才那個離開的...沒有啦!等一下!等一下!等一下!他這個已經討論過的案子啦!沒有!我剛才沒有討論過這個!抱歉啦!這個..."},{"start":7613.151,"end":7628.501,"text":"原要求財政部嚴厲一點,很客氣的來,要求你們嚴厲來的呢?好啦,好啦,好啦,好啦,好,好,謝謝原要求財政部嚴厲啦,不要贏了啦,這個"},{"start":7640.598,"end":7644.02,"text":"這個很重要啦我都聽你們講話欸要求財政部員力兩個字拿掉啊修訂相關辦法就好啊打打燒啊"},{"start":7662.321,"end":7666.665,"text":"這個賴大昭委不要小看自己我們可以去改他他的辦法我們可以來他改"},{"start":7692.057,"end":7692.357,"text":"副主席總書嚴厲檢討"},{"start":7714.178,"end":7714.498,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":7739.329,"end":7750.24,"text":"原要求財政部和原要求財政部和原要求財政部和原要求財政部和原要求財政部和原要求財政部和"},{"start":7763.948,"end":7777.976,"text":"那通二是不是可以原要求財政部恰主計總署鬆綁好不好人是總署原要求財政部恰人事總署檢討"},{"start":7782.738,"end":7784.3,"text":"那我們就一定會去做嘛"},{"start":7796.853,"end":7814.746,"text":"前面兩個字應該加遵旨兩個字我們應該寫領旨辦理不是遵朝辦理領旨應該是國姓所以是國姓爺國姓爺國姓爺如果有困難我們就保委員法有一些財政部可以"},{"start":7829.236,"end":7850.404,"text":"主席報告協商完成請議事人員先讀協商結論先讀協商結論通案部分第一案修正通過告訴第二行修正為原因要求財政部考量各國金融事業機構員工應一體適用以提升同人士積極競爭第二案修正通過"},{"start":7853.465,"end":7870.89,"text":"告署第5行修正為原意要求財政部恰人事總署檢討雙綁現行通案第三案修正通過修正為原意要求財政部恰主席總署檢討相關法規"},{"start":7873.51,"end":7899.504,"text":"中國輸出入銀行部分第一案並案增略稅前金率一千萬元科目自行調整第三案第四案並案減略業務費用向下服務費用兩百萬元科目自行調整第五案改組決議第六案改組決議第七案改組決議第八案減略營業費用向下管理費用五十萬元科目自行調整第九案照案通過"},{"start":7900.905,"end":7918.419,"text":"第10案照案通過、第11案照案通過、第12案照案通過、第13案照案通過、第14案修正通過、第15案照案通過、臺灣金融控股股份有限公司、第一案增略合併稅前金融三元科﹖第15案照案通過"},{"start":7920.767,"end":7936.92,"text":"臺灣金融控股股份有限公司徵略合併稅前經濟三億元科目自行調整改組決議減略管理費用向下推展費200萬元科目自行調整遭案通過遭案通過遭案通過遭案通過遭案通過"},{"start":7940.423,"end":7968.761,"text":"臺灣銀行股份有限公司第一案增業稅前經歷兩億五千萬元客戶自行調整第二案改組決議第三案改組決議第四案改組決議第五案改組決議第六案改組決議第七案改組決議第八案改組決議第九案改組決議第十案改組決議第十一案改組決議第十二案減劣理運費一百萬元第十三案十四案併案減劣服務費用向下支修理保養醫保顧費一百萬元"},{"start":7970.458,"end":7997.368,"text":"第15案照案通過第16案管理費用減列300萬元科目自行調整第17案研究發展費用減列400萬元科目自行調整第18案照案通過第19案照案通過第20案照案通過第21案照案通過第22案照案通過第23案照案通過第24案照案通過第25案照案通過第26案修正通過第27案修正通過第28案修正通過"},{"start":7998.568,"end":8021.135,"text":"臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司第一案投資性不動產費用減月100萬元科目自行調整第二案業務費用減月100萬元科目自行調整第三案管理費用減月100萬元科目自行調整第四案照案通過第五案照案通過第六案照案通過臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司第一案照案通過第二案照案通過宣告完畢"},{"start":8025.065,"end":8048.74,"text":"請問各位委員對於協商的結論有沒有意義沒有意義通過本次會議做以下的決議一、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算的部分有關財政部主管中國輸出入銀行、臺灣金融股份有限公司"},{"start":8049.901,"end":8057.932,"text":"包含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司（（臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司（"},{"start":8060.191,"end":8079.47,"text":"除照協商結論通過以外其餘部分均照列．有關中國輸贏臺灣金融控股股份有限公司．包含臺灣銀行股份有限公司、臺銀人壽保險股份有限公司．臺銀綜合證券股份有限公司預算案．"},{"start":8081.031,"end":8096.436,"text":"業務計劃部分應依據業務收支、金融保險、轉投資、重大建設事業及資金運用等項目的審查結果隨同調整金融保險的部分隨同營業總支出審查"},{"start":8098.036,"end":8121.725,"text":"結果的調查營業總支出因隨同調整資金運用的部分因依據業務收支、金融保險、銀虧撥補轉投資及重大的建設事業的項目的審查結果隨同調整請問各位委員對以上的決議有沒有異議好沒有異議那就通過本次的會議議程已進行完畢散會"},{"start":8126.53,"end":8132.252,"text":"財政部主管中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位預算案附屬單位"},{"start":8150.798,"end":8166.529,"text":"財政委員會第11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆第2會期財政部主管中華民國11屆"}]}},{"id":"16420","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16420","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685c7e719fa4ce89b4f4182d8c913e7f3e36d1319bf84c9168212c08a7279d00e6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：繼續審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管公務預算部分。\n【12月25日及26日二天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:31:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T13:46:00+08:00","duration":18876,"影片長度":"05:14:36","委員發言時間":"08:31:24 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我的意思是無親無故在一個工作環境大家一起想要把它做好這樣子啦 所以我想精神都是一樣的請李建德次長當上召集人 他真的已經找到四個專家 四個專家有些是真的專門在處理"},{"start":2190.041,"end":2202.056,"text":"所以這個部分我們就尊重調查委員這個在我們上個禮拜的禮拜一專告的時候其實也有做一個結論"},{"start":2205.619,"end":2221.291,"text":"會到每一個未完的委員甚至不是未完的但是有興趣到昨天應該也在兩個禮拜內會完成那昨天已經到12個了那基本上我們非常都很感謝各位委員的指教"},{"start":2222.091,"end":2245.007,"text":"好那如果說所以這個部分造成大家的關心或困擾我想這個部分大概我們會真的很希望把它做得更好那如果說所有的委員的指教我們一定都悉心來接受那像趙思杰委員覺得我們需要再做怎麼樣的"},{"start":2246.144,"end":2262.816,"text":"加強補強這個我們絕對非常樂意只要有新事證或者有具體的事證我們在禮拜一的那個委員會也特別強調一定查到水落石出一定要對事實一個交代"},{"start":2263.977,"end":2289.659,"text":"這個部分那做中間讓大家擔心或者是同時我要保證絕對不可能讓整個機制有秋後算賬的這是我們在處理這件事情最基本的請大家放心那我想真的很感謝陳昭祖委員對這個這件案的一個關心的希望周全那如果有錯的需要再加強的"},{"start":2290.76,"end":2305.759,"text":"我們一定會努力去把它做好在這邊特別跟大家致意希望大家真的勇於來檢討、勇於來舉發假設真有具體的事證"},{"start":2306.74,"end":2321.938,"text":"在衛生部的立場絕對調查小組永遠存在一直只要有新的施政我們馬上調查而且馬上會跟大家做報告請趙市委員安心也請各位社會大眾能夠了解到"},{"start":2322.819,"end":2338.11,"text":"我們一起為改善工作職場的一個努力我們共同向前看把台灣營造成一個更健康尤其我們在衛環這邊工作營造一個更健康更好的一個國家以上謝謝"},{"start":2340.611,"end":2343.672,"text":"我們昨天到現在都非常努力讓我們未還"},{"start":2365.1,"end":2388.735,"text":"能夠很和諧那我們昨天審預算大家都看到事實上主要是對人的對那個弱勢團體的我們全部幾乎大家不管桃園都是非常努力幫忙大家好 這樣可以嗎可以喔我們現在開始我們社家署的案子開始"},{"start":2392.085,"end":2405.328,"text":"567案567案謝謝黃秀芳委員已經同意並且簽名改凍結一百萬元凍結一百萬568568謝謝王俊旭委員已經同意並且簽名改凍結十萬元568我只要知道一下好不好我們今天是大高鐵嘛齁今天可以讓大家台鐵嗎不要那麼快"},{"start":2418.07,"end":2418.09,"text":"拜託"},{"start":2439.053,"end":2439.073,"text":"569案"},{"start":2455.014,"end":2460.158,"text":"569案,謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並且簽名改組決議改組決議,陳金輝委員沒問題570案570案,謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並且簽名改組決議好,組決議571571案,謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並且簽名改動結30萬"},{"start":2479.915,"end":2486.801,"text":"571改動解30萬572陳昭志委員572萬陳昭志委員這邊也謝謝委員同意而且已經簽名改動解20分之1也是相當於30萬我們並且建議571和572因為是在同一個計畫向下我們是不是建議可以並動"},{"start":2505.615,"end":2524.584,"text":"科目呢?同一個科目同一個科目就是571跟572凍結30萬可以嗎?我配合交資委員好那就兩岸同一個科目凍結30萬好謝謝委員573573委員謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並且簽名改組決議改組決議好謝謝574574也謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並且簽名改組決議"},{"start":2534.317,"end":2560.746,"text":"五七五五七五也謝謝神經會委員已經同意並簽名改組決議五七六五七六同樣謝謝神經會委員那已經同意並簽名改組決議五七七林業勤五七八五七九都一樣五七五八零王振旭都同一個科目來林業勤委員"},{"start":2565.144,"end":2592.619,"text":"五七七這邊還是要請我們的社交署這邊因為長期伸脹的車位事實上是很常是被佔用使得伸脹到停車場之後根本都沒辦法使用所以這還是要請你們去落實不是只有依著法規謝謝委員的提醒這個部分我們一定會努力來設法做相關規劃跟改善謝謝五七七案的話也謝謝林耀勤委員已經同意並簽名改凍結100萬元"},{"start":2595.776,"end":2606.681,"text":"577動100萬578578"},{"start":2608.889,"end":2633.166,"text":"對578跟昨天討論的案事實上是一樣的就還是事實上這還是要請你去處理地方政府不能中央補助你要求說法定的我們社工大概要多少的薪水可是到地方補助的時候有地方自籌那最後呢因為每一年有一些調整的時候最後事實上是變成是民間團體概括承受你們的調整的這些金額"},{"start":2633.806,"end":2633.966,"text":"以上"},{"start":2657.051,"end":2686.478,"text":"好謝謝委員那中央的部分那今年明年會預計會調社會福利調百分之三這個部分我們中央預算會編組那地方部分我們會督促地方政府要照這樣的方式來處理那578案的部分那我們也謝謝還同樣謝謝林慧琴委員那已經同意並簽名改凍結50萬元好578凍結50萬元579579那也謝謝林慧琴委員那已經同意並簽名修正修正提案文字"},{"start":2695.83,"end":2716.561,"text":"580580謝謝王振旭委員已經有簽名已經同意委員這個就是要強調友善環境尤其對孩子普通你如果說一個家庭帶孩子出去應該各方面都要讓他更方便像要去看什麼動物園還是要看什麼只要有帶孩子應該就是往前做比較順序好的排列因為你知道"},{"start":2718.402,"end":2734.818,"text":"我們這些年輕人也有小孩子啊 整個生長環境不夠友善齁 其實非常困難讓我們年輕人多生孩子啊 所以麻煩社家屬多有主流的觀念以外也要實際執行謝謝委員的提示 你說動物園是 他們動物園派人給我們顧孩子還是什麼"},{"start":2738.261,"end":2742.963,"text":"不是啦,這是說他如果起的時候讓他擺比較前面的就不用擺這麼後面的了對阿,所以哪來的想法阿?對阿,這個比較好,讚讚,多謝稍微,謝謝"},{"start":2763.305,"end":2777.926,"text":"好那580案謝謝王委員那已經同意並簽名那改併案凍結10萬元那同時我們這邊建議是不是577到580案那可以合併以577案為主然後來併案來調那個來併案處理"},{"start":2780.851,"end":2786.517,"text":"平安凍結凍結100萬他都在同一個科目底下同一個科目底下"},{"start":2802.903,"end":2805.266,"text":"您這樣應該跟委員爭取一下是不是有這樣的機會謝謝"},{"start":2820.451,"end":2839.763,"text":"581案581581案邱政軍委員謝謝邱政軍委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好581改組決議582582是我的對因為我注意到你們這個推展社會福利綜合企劃以及婦女福利服務預算裡面有一些問題辦理婦女服務"},{"start":2842.765,"end":2864.746,"text":"福利的服務呢叫前一年度說邊20%這個還蠻大的再來另外一個是辦理老人身心障礙者兒童還有兒少年收容的業務也說邊有15%所以我覺得我可以併那個大象的395億的這一筆其他的預算提案"},{"start":2868.099,"end":2882.777,"text":"跟委員報告一下這幾個委員所提到這三個部分的預算之所以編列數較前一年度有減少那其中第一個有關婦女的部分是因為原來在今年有多辦理一個每次多年期每"},{"start":2883.377,"end":2904.284,"text":"五年才會辦一次的一個婦女生活狀況調查所以這個是在去年才會額外有編所以今年等於回到跟其他年度比較相當所以剛好是差一個年度關係額度看起來比較低那第二個有關這些機構的收容業務的部分那其實是也配合潛在預算的編列的部分那其實也是會"},{"start":2905.004,"end":2906.385,"text":"但是這個應該會是常態的為什麼你要有這麼多浮動"},{"start":2936.345,"end":2963.296,"text":"這個確實是在編列上面因為也有搭配社會安全網跟像前瞻基礎建設計畫的那個計畫帶因為配合計畫的內容裡面有提到相關的事物那所以在編列的時候就有一部分比較符合這些特定特定計畫的內容的部分我們把這個既有的預算的部分一部分就金額編在裡面但是總金額沒有沒有變少朝委那我就併那個大象的395億的這一筆其他預算提案就好了"},{"start":2965.08,"end":2967.343,"text":"他有個3995的那你要577啦577你病到577那你要動多少"},{"start":2978.355,"end":2996.389,"text":"五七七五七八五七九五八零我們行政單位希望兩個併在一起扣一筆他的要求是合理的因為這樣這裡扣那裡扣那裡扣有時候會廢掉如果不這樣你就乾脆"},{"start":3003.386,"end":3016.955,"text":"577、578、579、580到582一起就並動看一下兩百萬三百萬就結束這樣可以嗎現在這幾支案件總共的動結數是兩百萬現在是兩百萬如果就是連同陳委員的部分的話是兩百萬"},{"start":3035.304,"end":3058.631,"text":"五七七五七八五七九五八零連同五八二因為五八一是主決議嘛吼那五八零跟五八二那合併併動兩百萬就是全部併在一起但金額全部加起來啊差不多啦不是分別不是不是以一個最高數為主自己調配就對了現在可以嗎主計的會計的"},{"start":3062.978,"end":3063.038,"text":"主席"},{"start":3070.401,"end":3078.343,"text":"謝謝兩位委員577,578,579,580,580病案凍200萬好ok583583謝謝羊藥委員已經同意並簽名改病案凍結100萬元這不同科目羊藥病凍結100萬"},{"start":3096.045,"end":3103.623,"text":"584是盧憲毅委員和徐欣委員提的有關社區照顧公海據點補助的部分"},{"start":3107.572,"end":3133.907,"text":"昨天有和徐委員在溝通是說我們是建議是不是可以不要凍結我們在徐委員的提案裡面有要求我們提出書面的報告做精進的方案的規劃在這個裡面能夠做一個說明不過當時徐委員口頭他還沒有同意我們有做這樣的說明因為徐委員還沒有同意他昨天來的時候他的案子全部保留他昨天有來"},{"start":3142.07,"end":3148.272,"text":"徐欣怡的案子就保留保留送院會處理584保留送院會處理院會喔好585謝謝徒權級委員已經同意並簽名凍結500萬元好585案徒權級委員凍結500萬"},{"start":3172.229,"end":3199.468,"text":"586 盧委員586 盧委員謝謝盧委員已經同意並簽名改處決議好那我這邊再說明一下齁就是針對我們獨居老人尤其是我們中低收入戶還有我們偏鄉地區原住民地區的老人我們希望能夠推就是智慧手環也就是說緊急的時候可以聯絡到119或是在地醫療資源或是譬如說衛生所啊或者是當地的診所來幫忙所以這個部分還是希望我們社教署這邊努力齁謝謝"},{"start":3201.01,"end":3215.629,"text":"謝謝委員我們來規劃你要在那邊坐還是不坐?可行性的部分我們先來做一些評估因為手環確實是有一些經費上的部分但是我們看看在現有的計畫之內我們做一些可行性的評估我們到時候再書名報告再跟委員做一個回報"},{"start":3216.741,"end":3221.906,"text":"587 趙志偉委員已經同意並簽名改凍結五百萬並報告因為585和587案是在同一個會期公務我們建議是不是可以合併凍結"},{"start":3238.953,"end":3261.554,"text":"五八五跟五八七同樣要動五百萬要合併五八三、五八五、五八七三案五八五、五八七還有哪裡?五八五、五八七還有對五八三、洋藥因為五八三洋委員本來就已經同意可以併案陳委員你怎麼沒併"},{"start":3264.87,"end":3274.079,"text":"可以接受,好,那就你再念一遍吧。市長你再說一下,有一樣嗎?587、585、583合併都500萬,可以嗎?"},{"start":3295.964,"end":3312.436,"text":"好OK那就順便報告還有委員同意再動之588陳慶輝588謝謝陳慶輝委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好改組決議589陳雲委員589也謝謝陳雲委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好590王振旭委員590其實跟前面很類似因為我們台灣還沒有像英國或日本一樣有孤獨大城"},{"start":3326.246,"end":3348.212,"text":"我們還沒有孤獨大成當然因為老人家越來越多而且獨居老人真的越來越多就不應該設法來加強所以我是同意變案處理可以變動不過也是要好好想辦法拜託也謝謝王委員你同意簽名改就是跟前面的583、585、587可以並動那原來簽名是凍結10萬元那就變案處理"},{"start":3353.8,"end":3360.463,"text":"好,那就同一個客戶了好,590好,591陳昭書委員591那謝謝陳昭書委員已經同意並簽名改動結十分之一動十分之一,OK592592謝謝邱振軍委員"},{"start":3375.168,"end":3385.815,"text":"已經同意並簽名改組決議改組決議好593楊耀593也謝謝楊耀委員已經同意並簽名改併案凍結50萬元凍結50萬好594594謝謝陳金輝委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好改組決議595595謝謝盧憲毅委員已經同意並簽名改為組決議好改組決議"},{"start":3404.668,"end":3408.011,"text":"五九六五九六五九七五九八五九八"},{"start":3424.324,"end":3445.644,"text":"五九九五九九也謝謝林月琴委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好六百六百謝謝劉建國委員已經同意並簽名改組決議好謝謝六零一六零一也謝謝林月琴委員已經同意並簽名改動結一百萬元那這個部分因為五九三案楊耀委員有"},{"start":3446.385,"end":3451.391,"text":"動結已經有同意病案動結50萬元,我們建議593案和601案可以病案處理。"},{"start":3471.772,"end":3498.061,"text":"好同意602陳昭志委員602謝謝陳昭志委員已經同意並簽名改為主決議好不好意思主席我說明一下那個602跟627社家屬給的說明資料非常完整包括他們現在的做法和未來的計畫怎麼做那計畫的是什麼樣子都有一併提供我也希望未來其他私屬的報告要參考他們這個社家屬的這個報告"},{"start":3499.702,"end":3523.388,"text":"那因為提這個案的目的是個人助理 這個制度本來在創造創造的目的是為了提供身障者他可以藉由個人助理的實現來參與社會已經達到這個追求個人自主的一個實現那這個提案目前因為大家對於這個職業的功能跟目的不清楚時常跟居府員工的內容混淆那我們本來是擔心這個不利於個人助理制度的這個推行"},{"start":3524.128,"end":3532.43,"text":"擔心預算跟政策沒有辦法到位那因為社交署做了清楚的這個說明所以就說我們就同意改成這個主決議謝謝"},{"start":3552.17,"end":3555.833,"text":"603603謝謝昭偉已經同意並簽名改組決議604604謝謝邱正軍委員已經同意並簽名改組決議605605謝謝陳慶慧委員已經簽名並同意改組決議"},{"start":3573.427,"end":3585.163,"text":"好主決議齁606王玉民呃606也謝謝呃王玉民委員因簽名並同意不過他的改動社會福利服務業務少子女化對策計畫100萬元動100萬齁"},{"start":3593.226,"end":3603.074,"text":"在後面的另外一個科目改動另外一個後面的另外一個606他是少子女化對策計畫動100萬寫清楚607也謝謝林岳勤委員那這個部分我們遵照辦理凍結50萬608凍結50萬遵照辦理凍50萬"},{"start":3623.889,"end":3633.552,"text":"609陳慶輝60...對不起在609之前607和608因為都是同樣都是凍結50萬在同一個科目我們建議是不是可以並案凍結同意同意齁好兩案並607、608並案凍結50萬"},{"start":3638.055,"end":3650.038,"text":"好609呃609那謝謝陳昭柱委員已經呃同意並且不是609是我的是陳金輝啊對609是陳金輝陳金輝抱歉我念錯我念錯我念錯我念錯我念錯我念錯抱歉口誤抱歉口誤抱歉"},{"start":3659.437,"end":3669.985,"text":"610610謝謝劉建國委員已經同意並簽名改為主決議好611611謝謝林月琴委員已經同意並簽名改凍結社會福利業務推展兒少及少年服務業務50萬元好凍50萬那這個案子的話就是我們建議是不是可以併到607案一併凍結辦也在同一個項目他要嗎"},{"start":3689.93,"end":3699.519,"text":"他們不在喔這兩個不一樣的科目阿要改科目啦應該是"},{"start":3703.283,"end":3704.464,"text":"612謝謝邱正軍委員已經簽名並同意改為主決議改為主決議好613陳教授是委員"},{"start":3724.009,"end":3741.135,"text":"謝謝陳昭柱委員那已經同意並簽名那凍結二十分之三那修並修正修正文字什麼叫二十分之三?凍結百分之十五這是多少錢?32萬4千元沒有要計較啦凍二十分之三"},{"start":3752.267,"end":3755.649,"text":"好通過614614謝謝楊耀文同意並簽名改併案凍結100萬元好凍100萬"},{"start":3766.718,"end":3772.739,"text":"通過615615謝謝陳金輝委員那已經簽名並同意改併案凍結100萬元凍100萬好615100萬齁陳金輝616呃616謝謝王育民委員已經同意並簽名改併案凍結100萬元616凍100萬王育民好617617謝謝邱正軍委員已經同意並簽名改併案凍結100萬元好凍100萬齁"},{"start":3799.524,"end":3824.865,"text":"618 618案,謝謝林岳勤委員已經同意並簽名改凍結100萬元619 619謝謝林岳勤委員凍結100萬元我們遵照辦理好620 620 黃振熙謝謝王委員這邊已經同意並簽名改併案凍結10萬元我們黃振熙好像土地公一樣一般、五般、九般、佛心"},{"start":3827.6,"end":3829.942,"text":"他有要求啦齁 要求要做好啦"},{"start":3842.451,"end":3847.236,"text":"那一併在這一個科目裡面跟委員：前面有阿因為同一支前面有很多"},{"start":3861.727,"end":3863.888,"text":"因為前面 有在最前面的939393939393939393939393939393939393939393939393"},{"start":3887.498,"end":3888.439,"text":"611可以變動611跟620變動這樣嗎?你的意思是這樣嗎?"},{"start":3911.109,"end":3912.089,"text":"611是和607、608、611、612611一共有三支607、608、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611、611"},{"start":3936.817,"end":3936.957,"text":"607、608、611合併凍結50萬元"},{"start":3948.848,"end":3950.148,"text":"620就不動了?620我們剛才是建議614、615、616、617、618、619、620連同前面的9393和606"},{"start":3967.677,"end":3972.579,"text":"主席你可不可以跟我講一下針對607昨天新聞還是有報導這也是我上次質詢的你的兒童安全實施方案從96年開始然後一直要我們一直要求說要針對於內部的指標105年就停擺到現在至今到現在"},{"start":3997.17,"end":3997.37,"text":"一百零"},{"start":4026.062,"end":4029.146,"text":"8年的時候的確有啟動討論討論到現在都還沒有拿出來公佈說到底後來的狀況是什麼"},{"start":4033.833,"end":4055.193,"text":"公務委員報告這個方案那確實108年啟動在做討論那我們在今年已經出稿草案已經修正完已經報行政院那行政院在今年中有曾經有幾個問題要求我們再做一些回應我們在11月中的時候已經把修正的內容回覆行政院了所以後續的進度我們會跟行政院密切聯絡"},{"start":4056.634,"end":4083.042,"text":"但是以前是每一年都會在96年到105年的時候每一年會滾動式的檢討可是從105年就停擺到後來108年啟動然後108年到現在又經過了5年的時間所以希望你們能夠盡速的去把這件事情處理好因為這個經費不是很多可是還是希望你們能夠按照原來過去的一些規準是"},{"start":4083.522,"end":4090.485,"text":"每一年檢討指標每一年去調整以上好621621謝謝邱正軍委員已經同意並簽名改併案凍結100萬"},{"start":4113.362,"end":4122.385,"text":"因為他原來是同意簽名並但是因為這個沒有其他的分支沒有其他的一案所以就是凍結100萬"},{"start":4128.61,"end":4146.901,"text":"622622 謝謝陳金輝委員同意並簽署沒有沒有沒有我還沒我還沒對622因為我看了一下622到628大家都是動一樣的預算項目所以等等看別的委員的意見622到628但是我有發現你們辦理強化社會安全網的政策規劃"},{"start":4149.162,"end":4175.897,"text":"這筆預算中花了2308元可是其中有快六成的經費是在添購資訊軟體的設備以及車輛的養護費都包含在這個預算書裡面看起來是有點民時不符的情形另外經濟擴充而少家外內安置資源的業務114年對特種基金才補助880萬元相比前一年也是縮編了"},{"start":4177.899,"end":4186.308,"text":"所以我這邊我是建議動200萬元那看622到628其他的委員是不是要兵難凍結"},{"start":4188.134,"end":4212.622,"text":"好那你的先暫時hold你就先都動兩百萬嘛等一下再一起一併討論623623謝謝王玉民委員已經同意並簽名改為併案凍結一百萬元好624624謝謝林岳勤委員已經同意並簽名改為凍結一百萬元一百萬元626625625謝謝林岳勤委員凍結五十萬元我們遵照辦理"},{"start":4219.847,"end":4222.749,"text":"衛生福利部總預算案關於衛生福利部總預算案"},{"start":4241.942,"end":4265.021,"text":"628628謝謝圖圈及委員同意並簽名改凍結兩百萬元好這樣622636465626627合併啦齁凍到628到628兩百啊三百啊五百拿最高的這樣齁我們先以最高的就凍兩百"},{"start":4267.662,"end":4268.342,"text":"每一個都落街阿"},{"start":4286.768,"end":4308.678,"text":"所以這家本來事實上是你現在用親屬安置也是對於親屬安置也沒有一些配套的那當然現在看起來符合CRC當初他們2022年國際委員來審查的時候漸進的去去機構化的那種形態可是也沒有處理的非常好"},{"start":4309.258,"end":4309.278,"text":"好"},{"start":4339.997,"end":4346.923,"text":"那就622、623、624、625、626、627626、627是主決議啦主決議啦齁626那628圖天啟不在有授權給誰嗎?他人不在他要不要喝冰凍?他沒有他沒有這樣有意思嗎?"},{"start":4373.26,"end":4384.109,"text":"那前面那不然前面那幾個就併併動100啦好不好阿628628622是200喔628是200那就告陳清威的就是22223242526併案沒有26到25那就4個而已啊22到252232425"},{"start":4401.261,"end":4425.157,"text":"陳金貴你公務約兩百一百然後就併案動兩百 科目是什麼就是強化社會安全網 科目就是強化社會安全網好 這樣可以嗎 要請 可以啦齁好勉強同意了齁 你要把土前期要動兩百萬嘛齁 土委員已經同意並簽名改動結兩百萬元 動兩百好OK"},{"start":4429.412,"end":4429.793,"text":"繼續國家中醫藥研究所"},{"start":4455.8,"end":4458.302,"text":"國家喔,這個劉建國我非常注重的"},{"start":4485.632,"end":4487.915,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":4506.114,"end":4506.134,"text":"好"},{"start":4534.813,"end":4539.697,"text":"中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管公務預算部分"},{"start":4561.118,"end":4583.914,"text":"637這是趙偉的案子這一般行政基本行政工作裏面那趙偉提到水電會增加但其實不是這個內容是在那個御用人員薪資退撫基金跟一些這個資本建黨的一些基本行政那主要是放在這個地方那因為我們的這個公務的預算逐年遞減如果這個"},{"start":4585.855,"end":4612.487,"text":"呃...凍結或是刪裂那個在基本行政會做不下去啦所以麻煩趙偉好這個是水電的不是水電的不是水電水電只有占一小部分而已阿水電的問題跟趙偉報告我們本來是屋主阿後來這個建物移給楊交大以後我們變租客阿所以要分攤他們學生入住的很多水電費用所以這個是比較麻煩等一下水電我們再捅3阿這一件主要是在基本行政上"},{"start":4612.918,"end":4624.326,"text":"那這一件那就不然就改改凍結5%好我們努力好謝謝委員638638謝謝邱委員已經簽名改組決議639這水電保留640這個也是水電陳委員的也保留好保留"},{"start":4639.352,"end":4652.217,"text":"六四一六四零陳昭志委員你有意見嗎我們是請他說明一下因為他的幅度是2.2倍我們才這個"},{"start":4654.828,"end":4671.602,"text":"長幅是11%就是稍微請你們說明一下為什麼會編到2.2倍是謝謝委員那其實有幾個水電會有跟大家說明因為我們本來在教育部的這個支持下有建了這個建物我們本來是屋主"},{"start":4672.162,"end":4697.223,"text":"那後來呢這個財產移撥給楊交大所以我們變租客那因為呢跟楊交大的協議是用這個這個比率去分攤水電會因為他們現在學生入住的人數很多所以我們水電會整個就這個上漲很高那在我們的公務的這個基本行政裡面沒有不夠編列所以就會擴展到其他的部分去增加"},{"start":4698.424,"end":4711.957,"text":"因為是依照比例學生因為他們現在進到這個大樓裡面的這個量很多所以就增高了很多的水電會OK了解好接受接受解釋是謝謝謝謝那就是改組決議好謝謝委員謝謝好"},{"start":4722.15,"end":4729.053,"text":"640改組決議641謝謝陳委員已簽名改組決議642謝謝陳委員已經簽名改組決議643一樣是水電同樣的問題644謝謝邱委員已經簽名改組決議"},{"start":4753.872,"end":4759.096,"text":"645這個也是水電10萬塊喔10萬塊通過啦好謝謝646這個也是這個是振興計畫謝謝趙偉已經簽名改組決議好OK這再寫一年齁沒有規模沒拿齁"},{"start":4784.775,"end":4788.818,"text":"好啦 休息十分鐘齁 趕快溝通一下 我們要跑第二輪"},{"start":4789.889,"end":4814.224,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":4815.785,"end":4816.606,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6373.891,"end":6374.392,"text":"來這邊這邊再用這個寫 這邊寫比較大"},{"start":6400.649,"end":6401.289,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6427.017,"end":6428.558,"text":"第12屆第13屆第14屆第15屆第16屆第17屆第18屆第19屆第20屆"},{"start":6449.544,"end":6449.884,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6472.641,"end":6473.401,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6495.221,"end":6495.942,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6514.421,"end":6514.841,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6544.481,"end":6544.801,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":6566.158,"end":6566.858,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6594.444,"end":6595.264,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6626.63,"end":6627.651,"text":"第三案第四案第五案這個都是"},{"start":6656.926,"end":6663.812,"text":"媒體政策宣導的這個我們黨團有意見所以保留送宴會"},{"start":6668.641,"end":6696.535,"text":"我覺得這個長期的媒體宣傳費用受到質疑這個是很有道理的齁因為我看你們有很多譬如說社會救濟的業務其實長期在宣導可是需要被救助的人他的資訊"},{"start":6698.031,"end":6714.135,"text":"獲得真的是很少齁這個除了大眾的宣傳以外宣傳不一定就是一定要要媒體還是什麼管道你們想想看怎麼讓資訊可以"},{"start":6718.052,"end":6740.947,"text":"可以真正到需要的人因為你連需要的人他資訊都那麼欠缺就表示我們的宣傳做得很不好好不好那當然主席才是說要送保留院會協商我是沒有意見不過我還是借這個機會跟衛部部講一下"},{"start":6744.449,"end":6750.062,"text":"真的是必須要把宣傳費用落實好謝謝主席"},{"start":6751.649,"end":6778.738,"text":"請問主席我也可以依照這個部分再補充說明我想大家對於如何能夠讓訊息有效的傳遞到所需要接受到訊息的過程會有不同的想法包括主席剛剛所強調的就是是不是會變成一種網路上的不當使用不過以這個我們衛福部要推展的很多的政策像癌症的篩檢"},{"start":6779.918,"end":6797.268,"text":"健康檢查生育補助阿你這你若不適當的管道讓他把訊息傳遞到要接受的這些我們全國的國民齁一定會打折效果會就變得不是那麼好所以這部分可能也麻煩再多思考一下以上"},{"start":6806.655,"end":6825.526,"text":"第13案第四案第五案就保留齁成效不髒啦要有意見啦偏袒特定的媒體啦這是最大的問題啦我們大家不要說的因為協商在說第13案陳昭柱委員的案子來第13案現在溝通了喔快點搶下去"},{"start":6834.037,"end":6855.356,"text":"這個案子是非常重大也許很多人沒有參與不理解這個國家醫療科技評估中心十幾年前就說要成立但是耽擱了後來又說一次要再建立這個中心這個評估中心關係什麼整個做新藥新科技的評估之後要不要納入健保給付"},{"start":6856.757,"end":6878.055,"text":"這個評估的那個內容品質專家這個透明性有一定的標準這個是非常非常重要的事情因為我個人就是在30年來都在了解這一方面參與這方面所以這個就是為全國人的權益跟他的健康在把關所以這個部分我是想採取保留保留"},{"start":6879.321,"end":6893.62,"text":"因為我要保留去院會學生還是要檢列還是要動一下因為我在意的是他的整個執行的一個品質標準做法而不是目前我們目前所有在做健保給付的部分"},{"start":6894.241,"end":6896.762,"text":"但是事實上這個國人應該進入價值包括小孩子能夠回去上課大人回去工作等等這些價值的部分的都要考慮進去所以我們才有病人的練習我們要有一些價值的評估"},{"start":6916.77,"end":6934.419,"text":"所以我懇請這個在場的每個委員能夠支持這件事攸關我們每一個人就每個我們投健康的投資還有他真正的效益怎麼來解讀所以他會影響這個整個健保的最後的那個cover的範圍是不是允許大家就是來支持我我們進度"},{"start":6936.519,"end":6952.799,"text":"來陳委員就是帳案通過或是保留科技組跟你說明一下要不要跟你說明希望你聽一下謝謝陳委員那剛剛其實有跟時事長跟你做個溝通那您是希望我們把這個他的這個做的內容再給您做個報告"},{"start":6954.341,"end":6971.039,"text":"那因為剛剛有溝通但是委員還是希望要更看到更多的東西啦那所以如果委員如果允許的話那不要減三那看是不是可以用凍結的方式我們把報告交過來是不是可以用這樣的方式來處理"},{"start":6974.07,"end":6974.41,"text":"我真的很肯定趙志偉過去30年來在這個專業裡面"},{"start":7000.666,"end":7026.983,"text":"常常當專委整個把這個制度弄得非常好真的貢獻非常的多那所以他會有一個期待行政部門要好好配合這個來處理所以我想如果可以的話就是看因為其他的也都有凍結嘛一樣凍結然後那個一定要你同意以後才能解凍嘛因為現在科技的經費真的一天不能沒有你把如果沒有處理的話他就沒辦法凍對"},{"start":7028.784,"end":7048.074,"text":"科技的發展是會衝突的因為科技組織辦法真的很需要資源來發展部長都幫你講話了我要求的是一個品質因為這個部分有點專業所以我也不敢勞動就是說要在這邊做專題報告但是就是說基本上包括哪些"},{"start":7048.814,"end":7070.316,"text":"議員．"},{"start":7070.416,"end":7071.717,"text":"十四十五"},{"start":7096.48,"end":7107.025,"text":"16這都講一案啦齁阿黃秀芳是動100啦阿林業勤動10萬阿黃振旭是動10萬阿你要動多少"},{"start":7108.482,"end":7133.941,"text":"我們凍結的數字還是一樣五百萬元那其他委員如果願意一起來拆就是說來審查這份報告那我們當然歡迎我們就並動但是我還是堅持先不簡列但是就是凍結五百萬元這樣可以嗎?不給你刪了啊不好意思要並動的時候因為我們是不同的案子嘛那個報告的部分可能就要分列好啦這樣就是"},{"start":7140.318,"end":7149.727,"text":"第34案陳昭之委員陳昭之委員這邊是不是能我解釋一下因為那個還在做討論還沒獲得委員的簽名"},{"start":7158.095,"end":7173.54,"text":"然後那這邊的話主要是主要是因為同一個科目第一個是同一個科目293313233都併案改動1000萬所以我們是建議第一件事情是33是不是同意合併"},{"start":7174.58,"end":7176.361,"text":"衛生福利部主管公務預算部分"},{"start":7205.862,"end":7218.137,"text":"以上6個月我們同意6個月所以第一個就是說你市長希望能夠併2930313233因為他是併動1000萬所以那個同一個科目"},{"start":7224.005,"end":7231.692,"text":"那檢討改善醫療院所的部分會包括評估跟懲處嗎?醫院評鑑可以放這一項進去嗎?"},{"start":7247.426,"end":7247.686,"text":"那你希望用"},{"start":7263.471,"end":7288.913,"text":"專案報告的方式來讓我們瞭解因為輔導協助是衛福部協助環境部的義務然後在這個地方上面的話我們會建議是說那個專業還會在環境部所以我們才會覺得是說在這個地方上次就是環境部說很多醫院有問題但是衛福部這邊醫事長說他們就查無問題所以這件事就這樣浮上檯面來了那怎麼處理"},{"start":7289.534,"end":7304.963,"text":"不是查我問題是對於環境部的調查方法的Methodology很有問題因為他那主席怎麼辦兩個部門所以我才會建議是我們這邊是輔導我建議啦來啦29 30 31 32 33 掛你的34都給病案動一千萬來報告提案委員還有你這邊還有衛環報告之後同意才解凍比你本來要動五百萬還要多"},{"start":7317.571,"end":7345.736,"text":"她說她不同意環境部的調查不是我們不同意是專家覺得醫院的專家在做管理的時候覺得是環境部在提出抗生素流放水的那個methodology有問題方法學有問題對是他們的方法學有問題所以才建議環境部要找醫院管理的再重新做討論他的抽樣的地方要做改善並不是不同意環境部"},{"start":7346.596,"end":7349.897,"text":"稍微那現在怎麼辦兩個這樣推來推去啊沒有沒有沒有這個我們要從黃金部那邊去了解的我他那個案我也看不太出來什麼什麼在裏面發現第二代第三代就是那個這個委員會不管評過就是要有跨部門的那個"},{"start":7362.842,"end":7379.329,"text":"我覺得是兩件事,第一件事是那個委員這邊提到的他的事業廢棄物管理成果報告的那個methodology我們醫院管理這邊覺得很有意義因為他講的抗生素有些是四五十年都沒用過的抗生素在流放水這邊出現"},{"start":7381.069,"end":7406.872,"text":"連醫院管理都覺得很奇怪這是一件事可是委員今天希望我們做的事情我們就是展望未來展望未來的時候我們本來就建議是說在我們衛福部的職責是輔導醫院對於他的流放水排放的自主管理配套措施要做好所以我們在這邊會提出書面的報告那個報告可以包括你們會去派人去檢查瞭解他的結果嗎有包括這個部分嗎"},{"start":7408.153,"end":7422.788,"text":"會包括這個部分會要求他們做但是也要知道這個成果結果因為要先了解他的流程我們現在就講清楚在你的這個報告裡面要包含這個部分怎麼樣去確認是他們做到因為不是只有輔導嘛要知道輔導的結果嘛對這可以"},{"start":7426.511,"end":7445.557,"text":"主席我可不可以補充報告一下這間的確是環境部很希望能夠針對臺灣的環境可以有更永續的這個需求所以他們才開始去偵測變異老出來這個抗生素有沒有不符合他們期待的一個範圍這個部分對於醫療院所來講當然以前沒有類似的經驗所以才會去檢討說到底他剛才師長說的"},{"start":7453.46,"end":7474.718,"text":"我沒有用這些東西為什麼會檢測出這個東西出來很顯然的需要共同努力來找出這個癥結點這個計劃其實根本上就在輔導輔助還有如何能夠讓醫院在面對這個環境部的需求的過程裡面得到比較好的一個過程所以如果從這個角度來看的話事實上是應該要支持這樣的這個計劃的這些經貨醫生"},{"start":7477.06,"end":7494.693,"text":"我現在只是確定說你的報告內容因為你既然有自己的想法當然為什麼幾十年沒有用你認為沒有用可能少用也許病人就在用啊你知道住院病人很多人大家都自己在用其他的藥他可能他的排放的東西也許就在醫院出現嘛這個也有這樣的可能性啦"},{"start":7497.65,"end":7521.599,"text":"委員提出這個很好然後他剛剛說報告不能只有書面還要實際作為所以就請醫事室是不是先到那個蘇昭偉的醫院去test一下可以啊沒有沒有沒有就是test啊你屏東啊幾個縣市做相關的一些採樣嘛對不對為什麼會有不一樣的這樣的一個檢驗出來的這些數字原因是什麼理由是什麼那這個報告在"},{"start":7523.22,"end":7539.713,"text":"不是只有給陳昭志委員都給我們嗎?怎麼會有這個情況?應該說如果醫院沒有要再用這種抗生素然後會驗出那個是衍生物還是代謝物我不知道啦我不曉得他是"},{"start":7540.769,"end":7565.895,"text":"還是檢驗方法還是有一些 因為不管但是如果病人有在吃健康食品的或不吃的 吃一些中藥或是藥我們不知道他吃的病人也有可能 要每天服用等等 這個就要釐清嘛 要釐清 我有跟市長講很多住院病人不會告訴你們他現在在吃別的藥 對 那個我非常清楚 有可能 有可能 都不知道 大家都不知道 開藥的時候你也不知道病人在吃什麼藥"},{"start":7566.275,"end":7580.678,"text":"每鄉下在住院他有打電話打手機叫他的廠商騎摩托車上外面來啊?上來北方啊?你去外面吃,他也吃他自己的啊?對啊,他就放在那裡啊這我看你家裡還有很多對不對?"},{"start":7592.096,"end":7608.292,"text":"我們屏東不能偷偷阿 屏東不能偷偷偷阿好啦 陳教授委員 你給他冰案冰案冰案 遵照召委的態勢 但是就是那個報告內容包含什麼 我們就先講好了 要包含什麼 我看你都要跟環境部溝通一下啦 有啦 有有"},{"start":7610.441,"end":7610.661,"text":"臺灣市市長"},{"start":7634.077,"end":7659.913,"text":"缺藥平台最近我們就發現有一個就以安胎因為安胎現在小朋友早產都要照顧了那安胎當然是要做的但是安胎現在有兩個一個是很便宜副作用很大的一個是新的但是那個副作用很少的但是一個要自費因為健保署就是限制己付嘛那現在就是說缺藥平台當醫生告訴病人說他第一個便宜的要缺藥了"},{"start":7661.854,"end":7686.544,"text":"那為什麼這個缺藥食藥署過去都委託一個學會來做但是反不及急因為食藥署有很多藥的專家很多東西你一判斷你一判斷這個安胎藥重不重要啊你現在問每個委員安胎藥重不重要那這個缺藥的機制你要先做判斷不是都委託一個委員會那個藥學會等到他開會再告訴你多久以後是病人每天一萬塊再安胎"},{"start":7687.344,"end":7701.653,"text":"我可以告訴大家每天每一個一萬塊的安胎所以基本上這個平台有問題他們作業的應變速度有問題所以我的我提出來的理由是這個好那個陳秦惠你講那安胎你講你講一下"},{"start":7704.304,"end":7733.335,"text":"一天一萬五十四人一天一萬五十四人有啊上次我們有跟那個早產兒醫學會還有欸還有署長嗎石署長對啊有反映過這個問題因為我們現在早產兒的比例是升高的因為我們生育的年紀升高所以家長他們也有提出這個反映啦是很希望說可以因為現在少子化嘛他萬一生都不錯啊早產也不是故意的"},{"start":7733.635,"end":7738.773,"text":"你說一萬塊是自己付的還是﹖是真的是真的是真的阿那個這毛鼠在衝啥"},{"start":7744.082,"end":7770.542,"text":"有啦有啦那個我們最近才發新聞稿二月一號開始給付那個阿托西本的那個安胎藥對那個那個我們都很了解我們就是放寬了啊新增24週到28週就可以開始用然後差不多還有那個糖尿病的運用都放寬了然後過去是說他要先使用另外一個"},{"start":7772.898,"end":7776.496,"text":"條效不彰或﹑及無法耐受現在改成或"},{"start":7778.359,"end":7802.407,"text":"獲所以他等於整個放寬就是你沒有辦法對那個retro 但是選民陳情是最近的事他在某個醫院我也不講哪個醫院我知道啊因為目前還沒有幾副啊二月一號啊二月一號幾副啊二月一號還沒搞啊對啊因為那個要公告啊專家會議要通過我講你會議通過一定算公告所以二月一號才能夠生效那一天的藥費的事情慢慢"},{"start":7803.387,"end":7814.895,"text":"其實你是第二階段啦那個署長你是第一階段缺藥缺藥的敏感性同仁沒有敏感性嗎一定要委外一個委員會再處理然後等他們就進來告訴你這個藥缺了嗎"},{"start":7817.233,"end":7821.498,"text":"你不能判斷嗎我當時你帶你帶同仁來說居然跟我說阿像主委員像那個什麼矮膝安分缺藥我們就不會我說你不要捧我了你現在幾時講我們不會覺得矮膝安藥會矮膝安分會缺藥日子通和缺藥阿但是安泰藥缺藥很嚴重阿"},{"start":7834.875,"end":7855.437,"text":"所以我是希望署長那個是那個莊署長這邊啊你們要有基本判斷有這個勇氣感這個就是要缺藥啊因為你們缺藥機制又害怕害怕說才圖利廠商什麼然後又要拜託外面的委員會來執行那個時效來不及然後第二階段才是時署長你要處理的這個重點藥品早產藥跟安胎藥"},{"start":7856.238,"end":7865.654,"text":"要往全開放的方向走就是往這個適應的方向走時代不同你叫病人這個心臟一直跳一直跳打不下去了嘛打不下去了嘛是嗎全開嗎"},{"start":7869.312,"end":7887.217,"text":"不過一天一晚你們大家都聽到了齁一天一晚叫人家安胎叫人家生小孩然後安胎那你不安胎最後還是復樓生肖我這邊是署長的啦莊署長事業署還在嗎你這個缺藥的機制你這個缺藥機制等那麼久沒有時效啊"},{"start":7888.017,"end":7891.94,"text":"那個醫院說他剩兩支啦那我也不知道整個全國剩多少支啦所以你們要更積極啦這個病人跟我說他自己還可以付但是很多人付不起來那怎麼辦"},{"start":7910.731,"end":7933.439,"text":"報告委員現在我們在系統上面其實我們的系統上他一旦對於對於缺藥品牌的時候我們事實上有一個是所有台灣中盤商的藥品的量數量在哪裡我們就會請他們調度這些這個事情我們現在已經在做我是請你們不要坐在辦公室管理齁你們到基層有這個有問題的齁名單我們也可以了解但是你們不要去去去做秋貨算帳齁你們要了解"},{"start":7934.179,"end":7956.642,"text":"他們實際需要的他遇到什麼困難?你在那邊看全台灣有算幾百隻幾千隻但是很多地方的醫院不好意思這間就出來你屏東的地方啊那個醫院沒有藥就是沒有藥啊我們現在就是說一旦我們知道他缺藥平台事實上我們的同仁馬上就去中盤在那邊去盤點因為中盤那邊是最準他知道哪邊的藥品在哪一個方向"},{"start":7957.483,"end":7970.293,"text":"所以我們那時候就請中盤馬上請他們我們不理了大醫院可能買得到啦就小一點的醫院可能買不到啦可是我們還是希望他們先登錄缺藥平台我們才會知道所以有的時候可不可以讓病人登錄"},{"start":7972.227,"end":7988.695,"text":"議員．"},{"start":7989.215,"end":7991.597,"text":"好了好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦好啦"},{"start":8006.49,"end":8021.184,"text":"我才說要尊重專業審查科技評估啊所以我們不可以用其他的方式去要求共理會做什麼決定還是要從那個專業度去評估啦我們一向都是尊重專業嘛"},{"start":8022.765,"end":8050.577,"text":"所以經過專家會議討論之後提到共領會議通過通過之後我們現在要進行發布程序一月發布二月一號生效嘛因為你是錢不夠所以他同意的適用範圍你不收你只收一點點藥證的通過他是看他的安全性跟有效性但是健保的給付要看成本效益"},{"start":8051.477,"end":8057.12,"text":"現在有一個學友病的要一支一億阿他也是有藥證阿因為他有臨床試驗就可以拿到藥證可是我們能不能成本效益是另外一件事情"},{"start":8074.008,"end":8096.186,"text":"我想這個人民的需要而且對少子化的一個重要性我們一定要好好研述省慎來評估當然我們要尊重專業但是我們可以做建議強力來建議這樣子專業也是各有幾件啦需不需要你可以先打這個藥啊你忍耐一下就過去啦專業我當過專家委員當了30年了啦我看過每個人意見都不一樣啦"},{"start":8099.496,"end":8101.618,"text":"復合適應證嗎復合整個適應證過去就是說他要先用"},{"start":8116.568,"end":8118.489,"text":"先打到不舒服然後再開始用"},{"start":8142.721,"end":8143.943,"text":"我尊重主席才是來來來 41案陳昭秀委員"},{"start":8160.061,"end":8181.622,"text":"總結20分之3,你怎麼常常說20分之3?沒有啦,不要多啦,總結多少?這個我是,因為他動到資訊處的一個預算,但事實上我們資訊處在這個裡面的角色就沒有角色,因為各個資訊系統大概都是各個司署去處理的,是不是可以?說重點就好了啦,你要怎樣啦?喔,改組決議啦,因為這個"},{"start":8188.041,"end":8196.448,"text":"我們是從缺藥開始啦主席你來做才是缺藥然後他們的反應的效率一定要委託人家自己不敢做判斷嘛"},{"start":8208.996,"end":8228.744,"text":"好啦好啦好啦不要再說了再說了就全面凍五千萬沒有啦凍年啦不可以凍啦五十案徒前期差不多啦沒來捏這個是媒體宣導的宣導要保留雙元會啦幫你處理啦六十五凍一百啦什麼凍一百啦六十五六十五什麼陳昭志委員來"},{"start":8238.937,"end":8258.39,"text":"65案65案是那個因為委員動的是我們的委辦費他動我們那個社保司的那個健保的委辦費那裡面提到說委員很關心那個詐領就是英美機構就是英美"},{"start":8259.761,"end":8260.161,"text":"你是委叛誰啊?"},{"start":8287.41,"end":8288.992,"text":"總預算案關於衛生福利部主管公務預算部分"},{"start":8307.99,"end":8333.172,"text":"通個5%或11%好不好我可以接受我只是希望說大家你不能開源到現在那個連賴總統他的旅行的承諾都不能夠提高健康投資所以你現在對於不對的使用不正當的使用等等你就是要去管理你沒有開源之前你那個濫用或錯用的誤用的部分你要全部要加強管理現在只能先這樣做所以兩個月內我會提出書面報告"},{"start":8335.314,"end":8336.615,"text":"第64案陳昭志動5%兩個月內兩個月內報告69案陳昭志委員"},{"start":8355.342,"end":8382.538,"text":"那個跟委員報告齁這個凍結到我們國軍會這個出國的經費37萬齁因為我們現在國保基金總共基金的額度有達到6000多億齁那6000多億其中有國外的委託的經費達到1800多億那1800多億的話是有25個受託機構齁所以我們每年大概是要去查核到國外去查核兩家啦"},{"start":8383.118,"end":8407.9,"text":"那現在因為這一個有關的提案是說希望我們本部去修這個國民年金法第15條有關配偶的這個裁罰的一個規定那目前我們社保司的副司長也在這裡因為他裁罰的規定目前已經完成了專家的一個會議那專家也同意要把裁罰的規定把他刪除了"},{"start":8409.361,"end":8421.106,"text":"所以他們現在已經有共識要把這個配偶的裁罰的這個規定我們要看到你們確認的一個報告之後"},{"start":8435.691,"end":8454.938,"text":"那是不是跟委員報告跟委員補充報告我們今年已經開了三次的會那也找了專家學者然後大家都很支持對於法配有這件事情呢認為我們應該要去做處理所以我們已經有把三份的那個報告都有給那個給委員辦公室了"},{"start":8455.718,"end":8456.759,"text":"國保基金開放以來最高的"},{"start":8477.688,"end":8480.891,"text":"17%有到17%可能會衝到18%各位18%好是是是高獲利就是高風險所以改組協議啦齁你們要出去茶禪嘛對不對茶禪要有人有要去票啦"},{"start":8502.676,"end":8512.34,"text":"來78案78案是突圈紀委員那謝謝突委員我們已經取得他的簽名同意改為主決議喔好改了喔簽名了喔是好80案陳昭之委員是陳委員那也是謝謝陳委員我們也取得委員的簽名同意改為主決議好改主決議謝謝陳委員昭之委員今天不錯"},{"start":8529.085,"end":8556.734,"text":"一百年期案我會我會我會這間是要說除了我以外其他不是非衛環委員會的委員都紛紛的請我在這邊幫忙反映就請衛福部所知非常慢像我自己的話今年休會的時候也在上班所以6月24號發文結果一直到7月18完全沒有人理我"},{"start":8557.714,"end":8576.241,"text":"然後後來又自己又7月18再發第二張哪一個單位這個是食藥署在問生理食鹽水的問題食藥署署長回答這個怎麼那麼大牌因為他那個時候在交接是不是"},{"start":8580.055,"end":8583.478,"text":"國會聯絡人很好可能是部內並沒有很支持國會聯絡人給他一些資訊可以傳出來國會聯絡已經很認真了可是這個我們有一個"},{"start":8602.754,"end":8626.52,"text":"立法院的助理工會嘛,他們是評比衛福部是聯絡的評鑑作業中是前三名,副評前三名,倒數前三名。後三名。倒數後三名啊,對不起啊。那幾月的事情?在六月啊。六月剛接啦,你當時接的?七月一號。七月,那不能算他了啦。他回來了,你有沒有看過啦?"},{"start":8627.174,"end":8632.76,"text":"他7月1日及7月18日也沒回覆好 那就改善啦 改善啦齁"},{"start":8635.346,"end":8661.837,"text":"市長我們對這個真的是因為我當過8年的立委嘛我也必須要常常要需要資料現在要執行今天中午說我還沒來那我明天怎麼執行其實真的所以我的心同所以了解這個資料的要是非常其實都是很緊急啦所以我也要求說我們同仁齁"},{"start":8662.757,"end":8683.387,"text":"老實講啦,我必須要為我們的行政部門同仁講,為了這個他們都必須要馬上加班,到11點、12點也在拚,不明天要怎麼給人家...我也不是要求...對,但是我的意思是說,這是有啦,如果長期有一定的程序,那我真的每次都要求各部門要去檢討"},{"start":8685.118,"end":8711.104,"text":"你從國會聯絡人到單位單位就開始每個單位應該都一樣啦不是只有10小時啦就去看看怎麼樣回然後就層層層層到我那邊絕對不會超過10分鐘我就趕快叫出去每一次這個所有的文裡面一堆文裡面就是立法委員要的所知是列委馬上處理的所以這中間是不是有他那個我們會再檢討但是"},{"start":8713.244,"end":8729.693,"text":"我個人是覺得一定是用最完整最快速的一個部長講一個比較合理的時間我們之後就當成一個依據嘛一週或者是就是說看內容啦就是說有的是比較慢的有的是很急的我怎麼看這個兩週內有合理嗎"},{"start":8735.015,"end":8763.507,"text":"公務委員報告我們那個時候我們通常接到這個時候委員有要求實現那有的時候檔案很大我們會先請國會辦公室先跟委員辦公室洽詢是不是可以延產因為譬如說有的委員在講說那你從幾月到幾月從國外輸入的廠商的量多少然後去哪裡那這個我們資料可能掉的就是需要時間那我們這種如果我們手上有就是比較統整性的資料我們就可能會比較縮短就可以照委員的時程"},{"start":8764.167,"end":8764.727,"text":"107案 陳慶豪你怎麼辦 要凍結還是怎樣"},{"start":8783.709,"end":8810.648,"text":"因為這個案子雖然是國會的業務但是他動的是行政管理會啦就像剛才劉燕國因為可能委員有一些考量他動的是別的單位的預算所以劉燕國和陳俊輝是一樣的不是就是他對對都是動行政管理會這個機關的運作不是動到業務司署的啦所以是不是可以拜託委員這邊可以考量我們是不是改組決議"},{"start":8811.849,"end":8827.281,"text":"因為你動到我的行政,您動到我的行政管理費對,不是動到國會組的或動到其他的,是行政管理費,跟您報告,拜託下一案是劉委員的,對,也是動到行政管理費,對,但還沒到劉委員的啦,對他在說我們兩個可以合併啦"},{"start":8836.895,"end":8837.576,"text":"昨天已經非常謝謝劉建國委員提案"},{"start":8852.728,"end":8864.356,"text":"他已經同意我們改列為主決議簽字委員所以107是不是可以拜託政府委員107這樣就是我先動100萬但是剛才邱部長說的東西你如果可以給他下出來給我們一個依據好那我就幫你解凍好動100萬110案"},{"start":8882.901,"end":8883.221,"text":"主席因為"},{"start":8902.987,"end":8918.566,"text":"主席我可以發言?可以可以可以 今天就是要留給你我發言人工生殖技術不能跟代孕脫鉤代孕就是要透過人工生殖技術你背給阿哥的公脫鉤好那你現在瞬間改口幾個小時後我國界署已經備好這個案子了"},{"start":8922.07,"end":8936.563,"text":"幾個小時後民進黨的衛環組委員開了會以後你馬上凌駕專業就是讓國建署的努力付諸一炬好那你口口聲聲說欸要改成專法專法你專法出來"},{"start":8937.964,"end":8955.974,"text":"你現在沒有專法我看不到你的專法所以我全額我全額檢列專法給我看你給我看專法然後我要告訴你所有的民調不是你那個平台那個平台不叫民調所有的民調顯示國人需要這個法案的需要這個法案的好部長幫你解釋啊"},{"start":8961.298,"end":8987.926,"text":"我想我們多年來趙志偉很清楚我們同樣都是醫療人員一定是站在人民的立場上在做思考所以在這個人工生殖法裡面不是說是說先沒有爭議的因為沒有爭議的先處理啦那有比較多考量的我們下一步再處理我想該發展該努力的事情我們都不會停息"},{"start":8990.607,"end":8998.829,"text":"這個部分請趙主委放心那我們不花時間齁我全數凍結然後我看到你的專法出來我就解凍好主席就是這樣謝謝10111213"},{"start":9017.108,"end":9018.149,"text":"國際政策是什麼?你問過賴清德嗎?"},{"start":9044.73,"end":9058.785,"text":"2020、2002年開始就一路支持國建署每次的版本都有一個政治凌駕專業就因為是在野黨提的嗎你問過嗎就算總統都不能決定那你問過他他是支持的520還答應我啊"},{"start":9062.348,"end":9063.129,"text":"我必須要再聲明我們政府在做事絕對不分黨派而是以大家人民的需要社會的共識"},{"start":9080.049,"end":9107.35,"text":"那我沒瞭解就是說這次委員所關心的這一群人真的我們需要來看用什麼方式來幫忙因為你旁邊也做婦產科專家我們不要浪費時間因為朋友很多我要看到專法啊不然就是表決我們要看到專法全部全部凍結請大家努力因為你承諾的專法這已經又已經讓你妥協了我們專法已經在有在看到就解凍現在全數全數凍結"},{"start":9109.692,"end":9116.458,"text":"拜託主席這樣支持我個人是不要再說我為個人了沒什麼交際 多少病人在我背後等待哭泣但是這個有時候是必須要為了工作同仁啊或者怎麼樣的或者是不想當代理嗎 不願做代理嗎但是有一群人願意幫助別人"},{"start":9126.608,"end":9131.932,"text":"陳昭之委員你的案1101112131516我建議不然你把動一半啦"},{"start":9158.149,"end":9166.495,"text":"對阿對阿那陳委員講的很有道理啦不過陳委員你這15案原本就是凍結一半而已"},{"start":9184.847,"end":9204.534,"text":"你兩年提案就動一半而已阿現在是這樣因為你是要針對部長嘛所以應該去找部長可以動到他阿次長一直發言阿一直發言發反你是要針對部長跟次長阿這些有些錢是你去動不到部長的啦反而去動到他們底下的人啦有時候救助那個弱勢團體"},{"start":9211.656,"end":9215.581,"text":"好啦好啦先動一段啦好啦好啦都中一段"},{"start":9229.196,"end":9242.29,"text":"今天賣面紙給蘇玉萱今天我接受趙薇的才是我給趙薇面紙但是趙薇你要幫我盯著他們要把專法定出來我一定用6個人把專法定出來而且多久多久前定出來專法"},{"start":9245.046,"end":9245.286,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":9267.394,"end":9292.974,"text":"從收集意見到這個專家討論到法規到預告你沒有做民調你用那種網路上沒有沒有不是不是我的意思是說要做立專法這件事情那就程序一定要做你今天有帶怎麼可能還需要立專法部長可是你要出來還是要走行政的程序嘛"},{"start":9295.638,"end":9322.657,"text":"你轉彎的時候講的很簡單現在我要看專法你又說很困難我跟你講所有的不應戰的人等著人都在看今天的國會頻道喔你要知道有多少人等著這個法案嗎專家說有幾千人等著喔你要不要生孩子你需不需要生孩子去年13多萬今年還比較少農年還比較少你要亡國滅種了你們還在搞這些事情搞意識形態"},{"start":9326.004,"end":9343.749,"text":"主公有病病有錯嗎?你是要用專章還是專法專法喔專法喔專法很難耶目前的決定是用脫鉤所以沒有專章這件事情"},{"start":9346.772,"end":9357.599,"text":"好了那這幾個案子就動一半了來114案盧憲一的徐欣穎他說要保留嘛保留協商他的好再來117117案這邊是144"},{"start":9364.603,"end":9387.329,"text":"114這邊的話還沒有取得那個求證提供委員昨天是在會場裡面是說他要保留只有這樣子講所以還沒有沒有好那就給他保留118118是陳昭志委員的案子他是針對細胞治療這部分希望我們能夠做一些更進步然後那我們希望表達的是說"},{"start":9388.389,"end":9388.769,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":9404.56,"end":9418.371,"text":"要及專家研議現在治療成果等資訊事切公開的呈現方式然後在上半年我們會完成資訊的更新並向立法院委員會這邊提出書面報告以上"},{"start":9420.373,"end":9449.56,"text":"我要談的雖然常常跟我有不同意見但是反我待遇的林淑芬委員其實本來對這個案子是提出凍結三千萬比我還多基本上他某個程度是民進黨的良心雖然很多我就是公開的講就很多事情我跟他意見不一樣但基本上他是有這個想法那我要告訴大家就是在座委員這個特管法我的手邊的資料就是說有百分之七十幾的人他凍了一百萬到兩百萬未來再生業法會更高"},{"start":9450.22,"end":9474.341,"text":"那大概有20幾person他動到200多萬花了200多萬那他就是買一個希望但是這個希望如果不讓民眾清楚瞭解未來戰勝疫苗可能這個價格是N百萬那大家會為了因為家屬可能在病末或危急的時候他賣房子他花很多錢為了買那一線希望所以我希望這麼新興的一些治療方法我們有一些結果讓病人讓家屬讓民眾做參考"},{"start":9476.272,"end":9501.288,"text":"我就是這麼簡單的要求那目前這個特管公佈的資料品質很不好在美國甚至他每一家中心做出來的結果都讓大家清楚知道我要不要投資這樣的錢雖然是我最愛但是我們做我們的錢我相信在最後不幸離開的人他也不希望他的孩子他的家屬為了他發了這麼多的貸債但是一場空所以有人解讀是一個希望但是我們看到更多的是一場空跟負債"},{"start":9502.328,"end":9526.974,"text":"這個是一個倫理問題良知問題所以我希望有個結果有個 outcome 結果清楚的讓國人知道我這樣的投資我這樣的付出我這次賣房子我會得到什麼這個是醫學良知的問題所以我堅持的是這一點主席就是說我堅持的是這一個點那特管法未來的費用會比這個還高那目前就已經花了幾百萬了都是用百萬算"},{"start":9527.854,"end":9543.159,"text":"請教一下委員你的理念我非常敬佩而且是我們過去在做再生醫療法裡面要堅持的原則所以委員的意思是在哪裡要呈現 outcome"},{"start":9544.888,"end":9563.733,"text":"因為事前的評估比較重要嘛就好像藥物嘛你這個過程你轉角還有做出結果做出事前的評估本來有一種condition approval嘛就是我們都知道那個部分如果效果不好大概幾年就會取消嘛"},{"start":9564.366,"end":9583.176,"text":"我這個有做機制然後我們有演歌的審議會這是自費喔幾百萬的自費喔所以審議會所以我們非常不忍心各位我三四年三四年都在安寧照顧到末期的病人如果你在review跟他講真的很多慘痛的經驗有人用了很多"},{"start":9584.136,"end":9593.807,"text":"可能真的也沒效的,然後花了很多的錢。我常常跟這悲天憫人的劉建國大哥,我們婚禮,我們對,你如果說這個有效,你怕他的沒去用,你會最後,最後賣出什麼?"},{"start":9604.878,"end":9606.62,"text":"我剛剛跟司長講齁我也請各位委員做公平第一個我們要結果"},{"start":9620.816,"end":9636.938,"text":"他說這個數量因為分到幾個案子之後數量可能幾十個不只做統計那是另外一件事情但是他的基本的結果我們就算不公布醫院的名稱一些基本的結果而且我要求他在判斷這些療效跟結果的專家名單要公開"},{"start":9638.701,"end":9651.574,"text":"誰來判斷你等於幫我們做了一個決定讓我們去做參考就說好這個ok很ok很有希望我們希望我們可以投資這麼多錢來救我們的家人我要求專家小組公開誰來做審查"},{"start":9653.513,"end":9682.574,"text":"然後結果要出來我這樣講有不合理嗎?大家都可以拼嗎?但是要看呈現我想這個是一定要努力的我們這個再生醫療法通過之後大家欣喜若狂我是保留的態度因為這些T-cell什麼什麼細胞這本來的治療差不多就沒一半的成功率嘛這個只是當作輔助療法而已你怎麼可以當主力呢主力還是化療主力還是標靶嘛"},{"start":9683.234,"end":9689.362,"text":"所以你不要給病人跟家屬太大的希望大部分都是很不好的啦還可以延長幾個月就這樣嘛"},{"start":9691.658,"end":9719.123,"text":"就延長幾個月 也有可能一場空啦 我只是說如果這個這個細胞治療 頂多50我看的統計都說50幾 最好50幾%只能當輔助療法 要講清楚所以不是說這個通過之後 吼 大家說那我要殘命百歲 不可能的事情我看對 longevity 搞不好影響不到兩個月 三個月 而且台灣的生計要要預示嘛就是說這個東西有一會加壓過來嘛 所以你要把關啊 衛福部也要把關啊"},{"start":9720.183,"end":9742.45,"text":"拜託我想這個是這樣子我們如果有發展性的有可能有potential有效的我們盡量讓他有機會去發展這個也是很重要因為還是要給科技總是要進步醫療總是要進步但是我們一定要嚴格把關嚴格把關是第一步但是結果呢結果也要呈現"},{"start":9744.211,"end":9771.073,"text":"那結果的內容品質是什麼我補充一下其實結果有呈現這是第一個然後所以我們才會是說要來討論的是把結果資訊的要呈現哪些東西就可以再做進一步的精進因為成為我剛剛跟委員講是說我的癌症案子有通過的目前有收案的是280案然後收案的病人是1200多所以除一除其實真的是每一個"},{"start":9771.713,"end":9788.28,"text":"每一個案件收案的量其實並不多所以這個真實數據又是又不是單一陳如剛剛主席在講的他是一種輔助性治療輔助性治療要證實目前我們通過的案子是證實了他的安全性"},{"start":9788.9,"end":9806.553,"text":"然後有效性這件事情的數據怎麼呈現能夠呈現更好的這件事情我們願意在這個地方上面也同意委員的傳訊是說要再精進民眾聽好了幾百萬的治療是輔助他還要加別的治療所以你付出這個錢的時候你要更小心"},{"start":9807.313,"end":9832.225,"text":"所以你就把資料做成就是去識別化而已嗎然後第二個誰來判斷誰來判斷有效無效這個影響這個影響比任何委會都大欸生命欸幾百萬欸所以我要求專家名單公開然後你的這個結果出來就是這樣我這樣講我相信全國民眾會對我的好說愛政專家這樣就說一句了如果聽到大家這樣討論吼我覺得很感動啊"},{"start":9833.786,"end":9853.321,"text":"感動的意思就是說為了讓我們的環境尤其是一些癌症在不同的階段有好的選擇的機會那我們當初去透過再生雙法會去通過的過程裡面其實每一個進入到這個治療的都有經過非常嚴謹的討論"},{"start":9855.662,"end":9870.933,"text":"讓他醫療院所在執行的時候是有所根據而且根據裡面的要求一定要讓病人跟家人充分的瞭解以後他才來接受才來做醫療後續的評估那當初講這個輔助治療一直以公"},{"start":9871.633,"end":9895.785,"text":"他在接受這個治療當中如果也認同這個機會的話那他們願意在自費的情形之下共同來努力讓這個疾病得到好的控制這個就是剛剛趙志偉一直希望能夠看到的那這個好或不好我相信因為他不是臨床試驗所以他只能盡量把現在的這些看得到的資料"},{"start":9896.525,"end":9924.912,"text":"提供給民眾做參考那剛剛趙助委員所提到那這個審議委員要不要公布我覺得在現在的階段因為他們是看到後端的資料那可是如何去呈現這個統計的結果其實跟審議委員是沒有直接相關的所以我是認為現階段並不是很適當來公布這個審議委員的名單讓民眾參考最重要最重要的應該是說當民眾有這個醫療需求的時候一定要跟醫療端做非常充分的溝通"},{"start":9925.732,"end":9951.611,"text":"才能夠得到他該有的保障有溝通你要知情啊所以那個就是一個過程嘛結果如何我的疫情結果如何那你做資料啊做佐證啊所以那個充分的溝通一定要透過好的模式啊我自己本身看病人一定會把這些訊息都讓病人去做選擇我相信你啊但是我們現在講全國的一個制度啊"},{"start":9952.847,"end":9962.329,"text":"那沒辦法啦 早知我要報告他現在治療出來的好過要多過一年到底是那個看療藥還是那個標靶藥有效你這個再生醫療這樣的東西只能顯示他的安全信念嘛 對不對你剛才說的是安全信念嘛沒有啦"},{"start":9973.012,"end":9981.036,"text":"根本是原來的藥有效黃正熙把治療的抗癌藥有效啦不是藥有輔助藥要再生藥藥有效啊啊事實是這樣事實是這樣他也沒辦法跟你說有效沒他沒單獨做實驗嘛那民眾在聽國會頻道那你聽到了那你現在怎麼辦我再把關我再要求看結果結果要公佈但是委員的我是覺得要保留啦結果要公佈結果公佈出來有效沒效"},{"start":10002.5,"end":10002.88,"text":"就是因為這樣我們才認為說現有的經驗真實的經驗"},{"start":10019.446,"end":10033.6,"text":"所以整個過程,剛剛王書旭教授也有提了啦,這整個過程都是要求到非常嚴謹那在審議,審議可不可以用這件事情也是非常嚴謹我們最近很多醫院也要發展什麼,那種審查是非常嚴謹的"},{"start":10038.945,"end":10042.849,"text":"好啦好啦118案齁凍結凍結500萬阿你還沒好好討論啦報告我最少好不好那個林淑芬的我不知道他後來申請凍3000萬"},{"start":10051.65,"end":10057.453,"text":"主席我要補充一點啦齁 張志遠的用意是良好啦齁 這個我們都沒有質疑嘛但是其實坦白講 這個剛剛我們可能沒有講到現在我們的那個肺癌三期四期已經可以那個化療加免疫療法嘛"},{"start":10080.25,"end":10106.088,"text":"那個成效是斐然的喔那個成效是真的不錯的喔這個站在裡面醫生當然應該要明確表達嘛對不對雖然他是輔助但是很多的未來的病友基本上是有一直期待金毛鼠在某個環境裡面再換換一些那代表化療加上免疫的療法甚至有的那個未來的癌細胞都已經在驗不出來了他是有成效的啊對啊"},{"start":10108.89,"end":10114.816,"text":"這個這個這個怎麼會我們今天討論說性討論好像沒有好像你們有成效不敢講好像沒有什麼成效的"},{"start":10125.049,"end":10151.294,"text":"他體驗是這樣阿免疫治療健保有部分給付了嘛對不對 署長有嘛齁阿細胞治療沒有嘛齁沒有細胞治療也有阿細胞治療有阿你這你如果做到什麼程度你不就要公開告訴我清楚細胞治療我們去年10月就有給付那個急性白血病LL跟DLVCL卡T阿那個細胞治療阿那個是一劑819萬阿"},{"start":10155.782,"end":10179.476,"text":"阿另外一個是免疫檢查點抑制劑IO啦俗稱IOIO有幾副阿我們最近也有在發布二月一號開始那個小細胞肺癌那個IO還有那個雙標靶對hepatoma那個雙標靶的IO晚了很多年阿晚了很多年台灣的癌症死亡不過我們一直在努力阿"},{"start":10180.296,"end":10181.416,"text":"我補充一下剛剛健保署講的是現在已經上市的產品"},{"start":10200.663,"end":10220.951,"text":"致記裏面出來的效果我們這邊在講的是細胞治療我們臺灣的獨特就是雙軌管理致記跟技術然後現在在講技術的部分是自體細胞的部分以上技術類的這邊都沒有幾副我們現在講特管法都沒有幾副健保歸健保"},{"start":10222.15,"end":10244.896,"text":"我們現在一般的社會大眾兄弟姊妹都認為細胞治療跟免疫治療是混在一起的這個是我們宣導過了現在在講是細胞治療細胞治療是輔助療法免疫治療有的是有效的剛剛劉建國委員在講的那是有效的所以要分得清楚細胞治療更貴啊"},{"start":10248.457,"end":10269.337,"text":"一百二十二案媒體監督會保留了一百二十五案來趙主委謝謝趙主委員這邊他已經取得他同意簽名改組決議這部分有獲得委員簽名謝謝趙主委員一百三十九案"},{"start":10275.123,"end":10296.328,"text":"陳昭志委來139一不然這個我基本上如果今天沒有得到具體的答案我就是保留醫院評鑑簡直亂來你沒有按照醫療網的規規劃然後醫學中心的不斷的增加還違規去年這一次這個非常的清楚"},{"start":10297.288,"end":10324.214,"text":"全體委員都清楚你這個部分我是要求說不但你要按照醫療網的規劃去做而且每一次醫院評鑑每一回醫院評鑑我們要的不是榜單哪個醫院變成什麼級的不是我要一個整體的分析跟報告我今年通過了這些醫院我的財務重視什麼我的醫療行為會影響病人什麼我會在這什麼什麼樣的影響我們都看不到這樣完整的報告這麼重要的這個工作"},{"start":10325.094,"end":10341.083,"text":"在若醫院評鑑而且一堆有權力的委員在裡面我自己是忙到為了健保署我把他辭掉我也當過10年的評鑑委員但是我不要看到榜單而且我看到一直違反像這個北區北區已經本來應該只有4家照760萬人4家現在10家過分了去年要公布的延後改變遊戲規則還增加護航某個體系的醫院"},{"start":10352.635,"end":10369.571,"text":"這樣子怎麼辦?主席你要怎麼幫我裁這條?這條我裁得有道理啊你是凍結一半吶吼我們是建議改主決因為其實整個差太多了差太多了吼我會建議是不是因為這一個項目裡面"},{"start":10377.642,"end":10396.202,"text":"因為不然的話我們的運作其實會有問題因為他沒有針對我期待的東西我期待合不合理大家可受公平你做完你要有一個規劃你要有一個計劃你要增加什麼地方人口增加你可以增加有個說明第二個你評鑑的結果我今年這樣的結果會造成怎麼樣的影響"},{"start":10397.503,"end":10414.068,"text":"我要講的是醫院評鑑一直在處理的是品質的問題所以我們不會基本上面針對醫院達到某種品質的時候給他一個所謂的第三方認證去年不是吧去年就不是啦"},{"start":10414.448,"end":10442.017,"text":"去年也是因為其實在我們一循環每一個循環沒有我要講的是回到醫院評鑑本身的這個然後那委員剛剛在講的是因為臺灣我們的評鑑綁了幾副所以這一塊要去處理的時候才會有我們在這一循環需要做一個平衡就是說至少遊戲規則要一致這是第一件事所以我們在"},{"start":10443.797,"end":10467.27,"text":"12月24日也啟動了就是整個建保那個所謂平建改革制度的這個地方要重新的評估。市長我知道也不是你的我要保留到黨團學校保留好謝謝好你是凍結一半嗎還是保留保留到學校好這件保留140 141都是保留這個提醒保留宴會142召職委員"},{"start":10479.926,"end":10479.946,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":10502.163,"end":10519.59,"text":"因為昨天在溝通的時候委員有意見的其實是看到媒體宣導費啦主因是這個然後我們意思是想要跟委員溝通的是因為媒體宣導費也是的確是一直一直在講這些啊一直在幫反對的人講話一直在那邊翻來覆去一直法轄灣啊一直在霸凌這些不孕者啊霸凌需求者啊在這個霸凌幾十年啊"},{"start":10530.043,"end":10557.722,"text":"陳.陳.陳.陳.陳.陳."},{"start":10563.439,"end":10563.799,"text":"154邱政軍委員"},{"start":10594.366,"end":10604.793,"text":"阿娜今晚阿娜委員這邊沒有取得他的同意大概還是建議保留保留對那1155劉建國請委員知道"},{"start":10610.908,"end":10632.225,"text":"主席我建議一下我不曉得今天可以講這麼久 不能應該是昨天應該是改今天來才可以講久一點然後第二件事情這個委員如果沒有來他講保留基本上這個案不是保留協商除了他有特別強調保留協商這以前的慣例是這樣我特別提醒那我回過講15的案件"},{"start":10635.388,"end":10653.964,"text":"因為剛剛特別所要求一個禮拜兩個禮拜是部長承諾的其實部長也有聽我講過很多案件有時候我們在追的時候沒有那個一個禮拜兩個禮拜有的三個月都沒有再回的所以醫事室你這個案子我已經講過了整個部件353個這個行政區有353個整理部件是96.19其實算是高了啦"},{"start":10662.811,"end":10663.632,"text":"他就很奇怪了"},{"start":10684.938,"end":10714.197,"text":"雲林在部件的時候其實有跟衛生局做過一些的討論然後那是加入了衛生所全部加進來之後其實他的部件率就高了然後金門的部分的話我印象中他是起步稍微慢一點大概原因大概會分然後不過我們會盡量的因為那時候現在是從出生開始就不露街的話那個部件率會更高然後這個地方我們會再加強改善"},{"start":10716.412,"end":10734.925,"text":"他們人家在凍結都是那個一千萬五百萬以上的我這邊原本給我凍結五百嘛對不對就改一百阿你帶那個體育相關的改善特別針對這幾個縣市看怎樣補強好謝謝委員主席我再說一次阿我們委員沒有在現場基本上是過了在後他特別說他要保留什麼"},{"start":10746.873,"end":10767.045,"text":"154邱振鈞他本來是凍結一千萬條不處理三一數不處理就不要吵了這樣喔?還是大過了這樣?不予處理就是通過了不刪了就沒有這個案子了"},{"start":10770.655,"end":10798.911,"text":"你是本委員會都高望重省的所以很多的這個我已經處理很多了好好快來抽一名啦最後交給一名交給一名苦差一事啊所以邱振進這間欸你給我卡一下啦和諧不要啦我們要跟陳昭志委我是溝通跟溝通跟溝通欸欸那是那是那是高難度的捐給我"},{"start":10800.114,"end":10811.336,"text":"主席,這樣來處理行為基本上是正確的,醫護要有中,但是我們這樣說,因為你委員本身你自己沒有來這裡心理上,這就沒辦法處理嘛,一定是這樣嘛,就是沒處理,以前是這樣處理的。對啦,沒來就沒處理了。喂?你的衣服事案現在你覺得很痛苦,你現在想把它解決,因為你在哪?"},{"start":10829.813,"end":10843.68,"text":"以後要比照辦理以後只要沒來的他都要打電話而且現在是第二輪喔主席以後都要比照辦理就是說如果我們真的到假設第二輪沒來是不是你都要打電話這樣才公平啊"},{"start":10856.023,"end":10862.832,"text":"154案 邱振興改組決議來155案 阿妳在說什麼我可不可以再補充 凍結100萬喔對對 因為邱振興委員還有一個117案對 117案"},{"start":10871.852,"end":10891.203,"text":"來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來"},{"start":10892.352,"end":10892.372,"text":"157案來"},{"start":10920.775,"end":10932.919,"text":"媒體宣導媒體宣導158案這什麼任性國家157就是趙薇的案你們怎麼不講話沒有沒有因為那個趙薇有特別講這是媒體宣導的啦你們就是要讓趙薇就是秉公處理嘛"},{"start":10946.562,"end":10946.582,"text":"趙偉英銘"},{"start":10968.174,"end":10977.024,"text":"有通過內容是什麼?市長這是針對我們優化兒童醫療這邊的對於新手爸媽啦或者是我們縣市衛生局去推廣相關我們關於優化兒童醫療網的服務的一個業務宣導費謝謝委員的支持"},{"start":10989.458,"end":10998.583,"text":"157改組決議158這個保留送宴會啦這什麼任性齁這我看不到了每天都在任性"},{"start":11017.355,"end":11027.482,"text":"還說明一下啦,搞不好對國家很重要啦我們這都疫情的,都要想想意思是都要去替我們人民健康發明你怎麼可以,你什麼案沒有教育看過,你是在做什麼,你在講什麼做啊,你做到這麼多案,沒有教育看過"},{"start":11042.652,"end":11062.277,"text":"謝謝委員這個兩個案子齁在這個項目裡面有兩個案子一個是過去我們針對就是說化學危害化學物質的部分然後我們今年跟那個化學局也就是環境部的化學局在針對就是譬如說像是工業區那邊他可能會有一些輕氟酸"},{"start":11062.677,"end":11069.142,"text":"在做就是是說所謂的醫療任性的部分啊這一塊要強化的部分的話其實是我們過去對創傷的處理這部分是最弱的"},{"start":11082.793,"end":11109.558,"text":"的狀況會造成創傷從天然災害到我們就是平常看到的大量的車禍然後甚至是說真的有可能我們要去強化民房我們過去在民房體系裡面權動署成立之後這個地方也需要做強化的所以我們主要這一邊在今年開其實是去年開始到接下來的兩年大概都會強化外申的處理希望那個召委這邊能夠支持"},{"start":11114.507,"end":11119.09,"text":"一百五十八到一百六十這都要保留這都要當團這裡保留因為這有牽涉到"},{"start":11136.561,"end":11138.563,"text":"我再補充一下因為那個上次去委辦溝通的時候委辦有講到黑熊學院"},{"start":11155.918,"end":11179.908,"text":"這件事情是在上個月我們跟北一合辦因為我們在這個整個運作的時候其實我們希望跟民間團體合作越多越好然後那跟北一合辦這個任性醫療的這邊的時候上午是請國際專家學者下午是邀請台灣的團體台灣的團體裡面北一這邊是真的有邀請黑熊來做一個簡單的演講"},{"start":11181.309,"end":11208.292,"text":"而不是是說我們的單位就跟黑熊。我覺得這兩邊是需要做一些的釐清。以上。那是跟北一合辦的時候。那我們可以在這個地方再提醒其實我們不會只限說我們跟民間的團體合作越多越好。以上。"},{"start":11210.552,"end":11210.712,"text":"董事長"},{"start":11227.713,"end":11228.513,"text":"市長有話想說嗎?市長有話想說嗎?市長有話想說嗎?"},{"start":11250.499,"end":11269.468,"text":"我沒有意見我只是說說明一下還有有機會的時候也幫忙說明這個內容他真的是一個民間的一個醫療機構一個團隊用盡了心力想要把他們醫療的成就再共振更多的人我想這個是在做這個計畫而且已經佈建下去了"},{"start":11271.269,"end":11282.124,"text":"那個應該是對我們醫療照顧人民的健康會有很大的幫助我們也感謝北醫團隊真的是可能會花很多錢來到處理這個事情我想順便這樣講"},{"start":11286.809,"end":11307.763,"text":"沒有啦,他還要什麼,還要修繕來說,來這裡大家要怎麼樣,大家要分幾千要怎麼樣,要巷戰,搞那個東西在搞什麼,我們是做醫療,我們講到這邊大家氣氛會變不好,我不講,不要講那個,我們在做醫療對人的齁,說到威脅,你沒理由以色列這樣講,都分兩千好了,一天到一天,大家都回家住,天啊白亂,對不對,所以這個這個"},{"start":11318.151,"end":11319.953,"text":"這部分可不可以我們行政單位先解釋"},{"start":11336.22,"end":11354.617,"text":"這部分的話其實在針對就是投資醫療永續發展的這個部分的話委員就叫這邊是希望我們能夠改善職場這也是我們現在會希望是說這個這支計畫其實重點會在於幫忙協助健康台灣深耕計畫裡面"},{"start":11355.898,"end":11371.804,"text":"另外有一個面向是改善職場的工作環境所以是不是委員這邊能夠改組決議然後要求我們在這個地方運用整個去優化所謂的醫院的友善職場的地方特別是優化醫療工作環境以上"},{"start":11384.16,"end":11394.412,"text":"昨天那個病棟是動五千萬啊?對阿就病棟一起哪一個案變?就跟之前的包括昭偉您的案子昨天處理的"},{"start":11396.594,"end":11396.614,"text":"現場會那個"},{"start":11423.472,"end":11448.679,"text":"這個是裡面的宣導會啦那看要不要好啦好啦這個是什麼這個這個很重要因為這個在宣導會上面那個計畫的時候我們必須我們可能一夜就要去各個縣市去說跟醫療團體說明怎麼樣call計畫怎麼樣來申請計畫你要讓我出來說這個計畫四大方向怎麼樣大家來投資大家來投計畫我想"},{"start":11456.901,"end":11469.205,"text":"好這個改組決議再來179這王一鳴的是保留送宴會不檢列啦保留啦這些口腔試驗口腔心理來203"},{"start":11480.605,"end":11508.063,"text":"二零三的部分因為大家都看到現在的就是這個偏鄉的這個經濟計畫第二期在社會上引起非常大的爭議那我們就是希望說衛福部要針對訓練學員數量的估算依據第二個綁約的年限違約的條款及相關規範的設計現在完全沒有就是說違約情況下怎麼處理第三個教學醫院施肢的訓練"},{"start":11509.304,"end":11510.445,"text":"所以你是要凍結多少"},{"start":11539.907,"end":11565.45,"text":"一半我要想讓他們說明啊就是我要知道這些資訊是合理的吧就社會大家都要關注這個議題啊你要講清楚你要做哪些事之後第一個我們一定會按照委員的那個剛剛講的我們一定會這樣提是不是可以改成書面報告然後凍結可不可以少一點這樣子多少你要自己講凍結的話可不可以就是十分之一"},{"start":11569.169,"end":11571.79,"text":"這個部分已經在報紙上已經講過很多次了啦就是在一個在"},{"start":11596.601,"end":11611.348,"text":"偏鄉計劃如果有關於牙醫這個部分就是針對55個無牙醫的那個鄉鎮我們來鼓勵本國有本國執照的"},{"start":11612.468,"end":11616.989,"text":"委員條款很重要你答應到偏鄉去了到時候賠個錢就了事那還是無意啊還是缺意啊缺意識啊那個"},{"start":11636.218,"end":11655.948,"text":"對啦我知道那個那個榜約的是這樣子在幾條內容裡面我剛剛講的55碼第二個牙醫師工會前過縣市牙醫師工會都有在巡委醫療各個比較牙醫資源比較不足的這個我們也加強量能第三個我們就是要說阿你怎麼講阿咱錄鼓箱"},{"start":11656.548,"end":11657.649,"text":"學生的任何機會就對了啦"},{"start":11682.626,"end":11697.097,"text":"你要講清楚也讓那些有爭議的人但是這個已經我的新聞稿已經發了至少三次以上了那如果說你後面講PY幾個那個我們就盡量啦因為你要我凍結減少那我要專案報告"},{"start":11698.721,"end":11718.097,"text":"專案報告是這樣子的,因為有時候下一個會期真的有時候排不出來專案報告,會有這種困難,那個我們做那麼久,委員你知道,你熬一個會期,是另外一個朝會這樣,普通時候都這樣,他要排專案報告排不時間就沒辦法解凍。"},{"start":11722.501,"end":11749.986,"text":"所以可以替你報告你輸的也是你要同意的因為這個社會都在關注的案件我相信召委會排因為大家都在看這個案子引起這個社會很多的關注我可以改動也許降到也許10%但你們可以注意但是這個專案報告是因為會眾所矚目召委員我講一下不好意思召出委員"},{"start":11753.359,"end":11766.388,"text":"我...我是...因為有一個會計也不一定是做教育所以你要擺專報我都懂我沒有意見就是說那是變數第一就是因為這偏鄉是對我們那裡重要的是嗎?所以我們有古來的鄉庭連一間夜間所都沒有所以麻煩就是"},{"start":11777.415,"end":11783.338,"text":"蘇緬報告你,也要經過同意,他才可以去登記,是這樣嗎?這樣你說10%嘛,你自己說10%動10%啦然後跟委員會還有我們趙志偉蘇緬報告這次是給有委員面子啊"},{"start":11798.686,"end":11810.048,"text":"那我補充一句是203跟204齁是一樣的會計科目是不是可以並動然後那個科目自行調整好那可以啦可以啦可以啦謝謝謝謝對在科目就講好他們的紀錄203跟204是一樣好用203對好用203的科目好謝謝好再來211"},{"start":11824.348,"end":11848.121,"text":"21這是什麼?黃毓民這是媒體先導的保留啦一部第二保留送宴會來214214我們阿謝謝謝謝那個陳陳立委喔我們已經取得立委的那個改成那個組214喔214214改改改改改那個改動200要不要保留學長"},{"start":11852.93,"end":11853.971,"text":"214改動200216已經取得委員簽名改動50"},{"start":11881.394,"end":11887.82,"text":"217也取得陳立委的簽名改組決議217改組決議 招數對嗎237237 保留送宴會240陳招數委員"},{"start":11908.231,"end":11911.496,"text":"總協商,剛剛有一樣就是媒體政策跟業務宣導"},{"start":11923.671,"end":11944.416,"text":"公關是今年多編了300多萬的費用主要是要做一個媒體宣傳沒有錯但是我們是因為我們是部公關所以我們是要宣傳整個部的那個健康政策的部分所以跟人工生殖法或是跟其他的都是沒有相關的"},{"start":11945.557,"end":11965.395,"text":"昨天跟趙薇溝通的時候趙薇也說到了說我們做得不太好您覺得我們的宣傳都做不太好是真的我們沒有錢所以是不是可以讓我們拍這支影片這樣子就好了那這邊我也提出了說這個是TVBS林立現在目前給我們的報價他基本上是真的就是這大概就是這個預算那接下來趙標我們也會盡力的說跟趙標想要能夠來協調金額把它變小這樣子"},{"start":11971.189,"end":11976.634,"text":"是不是可以請趙偉這邊幫忙說讓我們 趙志偉240241那趙偉您的意見呢好啦那你給他改組決議然後趙媽去跟你報告啦"},{"start":11996.138,"end":12024.243,"text":"報告強撤啦尊重召委才去感恩招師來255這個是陳委員劉建國你趕早你威力太大了報告委員這個特別是在這個項目裡面這個項目是我們的醫院營業的費用那其實如果是凍結這個石棟區是事宜多其實影響我們"},{"start":12025.123,"end":12025.744,"text":"好那你希望動多少"},{"start":12047.621,"end":12060.52,"text":"是不是可不可以改主決議然後我們再打這個部分吧?沒有我要讓大家知道齁那個主席你也知道幾個月前我就是舉發了衛福部桃園醫院最肥的醫院最可能成為醫學中心醫院一個院長缺懸缺了兩年多"},{"start":12062.262,"end":12085.391,"text":"如果我不是逼著那個零選制度不開大家都在為誰而留這個不能夠這個假公濟私那因為職權不管你壓力來自何方職權在你身上所以我覺得在管理上你有非常多的一個問題要改進齁我目前的資料我都確認過了草屯啦 岐山啦 嘉義啦 苗栗"},{"start":12085.971,"end":12098.9,"text":"你這些東西都是你要達到無縫接軌一個這麼重要的部醫院齁衛福部醫院這個院長他借期到了任期到或借齡到了你在之前都知道你早就要啟動遴選制度讓他無縫接軌"},{"start":12101.121,"end":12129.188,"text":"那你這個亂七八糟的有的無縫接軌你也處理過啊處理過兩案啊做得很好啊其他的呢放半年放兩年衛福部討約放兩年呢那你這個怎麼跟我們解釋你是在喬人事嗎為什麼要這樣等為什麼你明明知道他會出缺又不處理政府院長多麼重要對管理多麼重要所以我要求的就是說你要把這個制度建立起來把它講清楚以後不要因人設事也不要私下去喬"},{"start":12130.228,"end":12154.082,"text":"就是把辦法做清楚我要求這樣全國人民可以給我一個公道我要求東西有不合理嗎但是我不要傷害任何每一家部立院的運作我的目的不在這裡執行長院你要負最大的責任啊我要講一個公道話啦事實上我跟部立院的互動也很綿密我覺得我們大部分部立院的院長都是非常優秀而且很認真"},{"start":12155.543,"end":12180.103,"text":"那你這個事實預期轉播的統籌費用還是什麼?所有的人事補助費這個裡面是99%都是人事補助費99%是人事補助費那再跟委員再解釋像剛剛岐山醫院那個是因為院長去考豐原醫院所以那個岐山就出現你現在就是讓我已經發現了有一些你根本就是一直閒置堆它是說你留一個位置要給某某人啦這樣這不好啊"},{"start":12182.005,"end":12198.354,"text":"對幕重重大家都知道整個衛福部醫院的人都知道啊大家衛福都知道有個制度有個制度有問題嗎有個制度我們一定有制度我們一上任以後馬上招牌馬上馬上桃園醫院馬上桃園醫院就招考介林都是知道的你任期除非你有任何意外不然基本上你都知道什麼時候開始要缺政府院長"},{"start":12207.119,"end":12217.324,"text":"你之前就展開零選的退休的大概都知道啦就是有些去考別的沒有任期任期也知道啊那種的就是說那些比較臨時你知道我說的都不是這個啦第三啦阿部頭你說等一陣子你說部頭發生什麼事阿我上任就馬上公告馬上考就沒有喔是我避出來的你們零選都放著好啦都有啦都有說了啦我3、4月質詢你到6月才肯發零選然後零選之後又不公佈"},{"start":12234.6,"end":12238.844,"text":"我當然不要傷害衛福部醫院啊你這個金額我可以降到一千萬但是你要把這個制度你要把這個寫明了我現在要求合理嗎"},{"start":12262.463,"end":12288.978,"text":"合理吧有合理合理非常合理我們都按照這個我們的遴選辦法齁那當中間剛剛講說退休的年齡我們都知道啊就是因為有任期也知道啊我們現在除缺的這個中間遴選是因為他去考別的醫院啊就空了那有相關行政的流程那我們還要再另外再找遴選委員遴選委員要滿三分之二他才可以可能第一次就流產掉每個委員會都有這些限制啦大法官也是要多好人才能開會啦"},{"start":12290.659,"end":12298.244,"text":"你管你管這麼久了我要制度化我要制度化請問稍微因為這個在劉建國委員還有陳清惠委員還有那個剛剛255都是同一個案子那劉委員我們昨天跟他溝通全部加起來要動一千萬啦我要優化你們的那個制度還有這個臨險制度還有"},{"start":12314.554,"end":12332.294,"text":"就是借鈴退休的你一定可以掌握就是平常出缺大家跑去考結果考上了這裡就突然出缺嘛不用不要跟我說疫情喔你上次一直說疫情台北醫院院長跟副院長都跟疫情無關都公告了都公告了不要再跟我講任何一個出發狀況"},{"start":12333.315,"end":12347.83,"text":"一個稱職的院長不會因為疫情我沒辦法到另外一個院就職不可能他就是醫院管理人才了解我們這個部分真的是人事費你現在如果說這個部分你現在沒有辦法我剛剛不是說一千萬嗎你說99是人事費我給他算40億4億4千萬就4千萬是一趴嘛他動一千萬"},{"start":12356.398,"end":12366.431,"text":"還是要重新審查?我保證好了沒有啦 我要看報告因為這個陋習已久陋習已久委員現在其實已經都改信了我們其實在這個流程裡面都已經讓我們少一點"},{"start":12372.719,"end":12394.021,"text":"我還沒請你來做專案報告已經有按照委員的指示一直在改善因為昨天李委員我們跟他說明解釋他是改屬決議啦他也同意我們因為這是用到我們的偏鄉離島的人事費用這很多都是護理人員"},{"start":12394.782,"end":12407.952,"text":"那其實對我們來講其實如果這個經費 四十億動一千萬不要跟我講會員你籌都籌得出來而且這四十億的是你在分配的是你在執行怎麼分配的 都分配到所有的不利院如果你沒有辦法接受保留協商"},{"start":12411.274,"end":12411.954,"text":"二五三三說我用八個字是四千萬"},{"start":12441.665,"end":12460.595,"text":"對阿對阿,所以齁,那個數目是很大,對整個部立醫院的營運真的是影響很大,這都是人事費齁,這都是要勾勒在裡面做工作的所有團隊的人欸,那不是他們要去做其他事情阿這,這,這全新會議改動4200萬,這怎麼說阿,現在要怎麼"},{"start":12464.017,"end":12467.74,"text":"我早上有跟那個成為委員說明以這個召委為主"},{"start":12475.208,"end":12494.737,"text":"我們一切都遵從召委的才事這第一點第二點跟召委報告未完三個部會目前這個衛福部最慘烈應該環境部加勞動部被動的不到衛福部現在被動的五分之二陳慶輝253"},{"start":12502.645,"end":12504.186,"text":"跟255全招支的"},{"start":12534.355,"end":12558.302,"text":"還要順便報告喔?不要再說了不要再說了,好新聞好新聞,再說的話就...沒關係啦,搞搞搞搞啦阿不然你要收集啦你說你有制度啊,那馬上交出來啊,這兩天就可以交出來,就可以解凍啦客戶是哪一個?那個...林慶豐?"},{"start":12569.339,"end":12588.668,"text":"二八六主決議委員已經簽名了那修正後通過二八七謝謝我們村委員已經做文字修正那已經取得簽名二八八謝謝我們村委員順道辦理"},{"start":12597.489,"end":12619.437,"text":"三一七三一七三一九都是蘇委員蘇昭偉的水電費那機關署這邊就是因為目前昆陽實驗室在原地重建所以我們從今年開始也搬到南港中研院這邊去有一個臨時辦公室所以這個水電費的增加主要在這邊所以還是希望說昭偉能夠支持我們能夠把這個水電費編組因為這個是"},{"start":12623.101,"end":12623.561,"text":"對,懇請趙偉能夠免刪"},{"start":12650.339,"end":12653.88,"text":"一千萬不是那個四四八六四四八六是基本行者所有的所以那是不是可以從一千萬里頭去"},{"start":12681.129,"end":12682.51,"text":"三一幾?"},{"start":12682.51,"end":12684.972,"text":"三一七 三一九 水電會減列5% 你自己釐清出來"},{"start":12695.482,"end":12703.65,"text":"再來320是陳昭芝委員的也是針對我們的水電費那這樣是不是可以請委員可以統一併讓趙薇的一起減5%好啦趙薇才是阿好謝謝謝謝陳委員併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併併"},{"start":12719.124,"end":12745.995,"text":"三三七是已經取得王玉明委員的簽名同意並這個三三五三三六案然後以三三二案的科目動防疫業務一百萬提書面報告已經有簽名了三三七跟三五三五三三六一起並但是還有一個三二二其實也是並在一起所以所以就是整個四案一起動防疫業務一百萬元動多少動一百"},{"start":12748.336,"end":12750.257,"text":"322322好動防100萬那是以在個322的科目來動來當主案來動包括322335336跟337"},{"start":12780.106,"end":12784.447,"text":"還有3323232323324335336337338339都是一起動防疫業務100萬委員有簽字同意並動好啦好啦好啦好啦"},{"start":12812.272,"end":12816.295,"text":"水電科目是不是能夠讓我們自行調整?對方習慣屬都高抬貴手"},{"start":12849.475,"end":12852.398,"text":"我們351已經得到陳委員的簽字,我們改動100萬,項目是科技業務"},{"start":12859.864,"end":12882.989,"text":"都一百,都是沒錯吧?好,那跟362跟委員解釋一下,因為這個是水電費是實驗室的那報告委員是4月1號和10月1號他提供提高了27%那我們現在把算過在舊的預算成算27%大概是250萬左右是不是可以這個"},{"start":12885.51,"end":12912.235,"text":"是不是可以這個就幫我們改組決議好可以謝謝委員好謝謝那363 364是趙志偉和那個趙偉的那個水電費那我不知道是不是可以建請用依照以福利衛福部整個水電費凍結3-50萬兩岸併成不知道這樣可不可以你是3-50萬你們的水電費是多少錢"},{"start":12913.777,"end":12913.797,"text":"剪類50萬"},{"start":12924.428,"end":12927.15,"text":"剪裂50萬因為我沒有分屬辦公室的好 謝謝委員363 364378已經得到委員的簽字改動100萬科目變成食品管理工作動100萬"},{"start":12949.005,"end":12954.611,"text":"378動100萬對齁好謝謝陳委員那407那已經得到陳委員已經簽字了那是這個動500萬那個科目改到那個藥裝管理工作那我們提書面報告接下來"},{"start":12968.2,"end":12968.36,"text":"第11屆第12會議"},{"start":12990.017,"end":13009.56,"text":"要跟委員解釋一下因為我們現在事實上這些那個因為一脫米子這些案子其實我們現在都在處理當中那處理當中那我們這些的偵測還有那個預指現在都已經在處理了我這件事有幾個重點齁那個一脫米子齁是在去年的9月"},{"start":13010.761,"end":13028.9,"text":"去年9月就發生案子然後12月已經大概全國都案子都出來了但是那個食藥署是在5月6月的時候才開始去討論這件事情公告時間要兩個月然後法務部那邊要進入毒品的審查那要再公告兩個月"},{"start":13029.881,"end":13045.526,"text":"所以我後來一直盯一直盯第一個你們反映的時效太慢那第二個就是說你們不能說因為一年開三次四次專家會議你遇到緊急事件尤其這個毒品你就是要加速臨時加開會議要趕快把它解決"},{"start":13046.226,"end":13074.799,"text":"因為像我陳情的媽媽她的孩子要去報案這個派出所不受理說他不是毒品不受理他的孩子買到了那個電子菸裡面加了伊托米子整個案子都是我一直追一直盯那剛開始當然第幾集我沒有特別意見然後你們後來在這事態嚴重後來又改成這樣毒品從成第三集又改成第二集所以整個反應非常慢然後又按照那個委員會一般常態的這個開會速度沒有做緊急的處理我的重點在這個地方"},{"start":13075.759,"end":13100.23,"text":"你每加快一天就少一些人受害報告委員那個事上這個案子後來委員提醒以後我們事上那個整個開始了以後我們整個速度加快包括那個管要的審議委員會本來以前是六個月開始現在已經是包括激動開會了所以這件事情是已經在處理當中另外一個是公告的實現本來以前標準是兩個月那現在已經都14天"},{"start":13102.371,"end":13128.03,"text":"14天如果委員同意的話我們就給你改到7天那我們都已經就是看緊急看近況啦一般的管制要明但是這個是毒品啦對對對那你希望怎麼做呢我的那個預算部分你希望我怎麼做呢是不是因為包括委員我們現在大概所有的方法都已經按照現在是縮短時間的那是不是請委員這個可以同意我們改成主決議因為我們現在都做了還在做主決議喔"},{"start":13130.137,"end":13150.364,"text":"因為我們現在這個這些事情他的處理方式我們現在已經有標準已經到在院裡頭的讀者你半年後當然不是你任內啦半年後才去有動作第一個案的時候就應該開始提高警覺開始討論而且這個藥是有許可證的藥欸報告委員因為那一次我們聽到這件事情的時候事實上是在讀審會他們提臨時動議案的時候我們回來就已經開始處理了"},{"start":13154.045,"end":13169.875,"text":"所以真正是讀審會他開始提名是動議案的放在準備下一次會議的時候然後他要做的時候我們其實我們就已經帶回來那你就是我要看一下書面報告你說你剛剛改進的措施我就要收個瞭解"},{"start":13170.896,"end":13174.138,"text":"415,416,417嘛,農曹志偉的嘛,就動500那是不是這個動500能把科目改在藥妝管理工作的下面的藥品機那417"},{"start":13199.67,"end":13200.05,"text":"416保留協商"},{"start":13226.804,"end":13228.808,"text":"四一六不一樣四一六不一樣"},{"start":13231.777,"end":13258.552,"text":"我現在跟委員報告一下那個轉類要的我知道委員很關心這個那上次我們現在已經開始在那在藥品組現在我們已經確定每年我們如果在這個那個OTC的會議我們現在已經定了目標是他每年會做三級五個藥品的轉類那今年到現在為止我們已經有四個已經轉類成功那一個現在正在補件"},{"start":13259.893,"end":13272.039,"text":"所以跟委員說我們這個會直接會 百分之八十都是我主持的時候轉列成功415417我們同意就是說就是病案嘛然後是500嘛那416保留協商431跟委員講就是"},{"start":13287.759,"end":13302.134,"text":"這個學名藥的好那我們現在事實上已經在在做勾再請那個那個年輕藥師學會事實上他們有辦辦那個說明會那我們現在跟就請各位的廠商然後讓他如果來來需要需要這些"},{"start":13303.675,"end":13328.764,"text":"設備和這些東西我們現在在溝通同時我們現在已經同意了一件事就是如果這些學名藥他有在做臨床試驗我們要鼓勵那個臨床單進行學名藥的臨床試驗那他如果一旦有發表在文獻上或IRP通過來發表在文獻上我們會同意他加入到訪單中間這樣子學名藥在外面看的時候就會比較容易說這個已經是經過在訪單上他就會修出來了"},{"start":13330.064,"end":13351.452,"text":"現在就是有兩件事一個就是說你在學名藥的品質要取得國人的信任台灣有將近150家藥廠反正我要考你有幾家150這麼小的地方150家藥廠這個競爭尤其說所謂的價差競爭下他的品質會有差異這個我們不得不承認現實就是這樣所以你第一個是這個"},{"start":13352.492,"end":13354.233,"text":"品質品質品質品質品質品質品質品質品質"},{"start":13382.27,"end":13393.024,"text":"我可以用凍結的方式 那就是不是請委員我們是不是可以凍500萬然後我們科目改列那個藥妝管理工作 來再來健保署"},{"start":13405.066,"end":13410.828,"text":"那個跟跟趙偉跟委員報告是不是437440443跟445可以合併處理因為都是屬於科技業務的水電費437440443跟445437是陳委員的然後440443445是趙偉都是水電水電費啦"},{"start":13436.69,"end":13437.29,"text":"二十一萬這樣子"},{"start":13459.491,"end":13486.109,"text":"不用不用就是免凍結這樣我們就一次幾個案科技業務的水電對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿對阿"},{"start":13489.188,"end":13502.456,"text":"四四零 四四三 四四五 那個加起來就是210萬啦 趕快 跟那個陳昭志委員是一樣十分之一 簡略十分之一 就是20萬"},{"start":13513.462,"end":13514.904,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":13528.478,"end":13543.764,"text":"247是陳昭志委員謝謝委員已經同意修改為提三個月提書面報告那我們遵照辦理那是不動不動嗎動動動也是凍結凍結也是有凍結就是原來的凍結11萬4千然後我們是三個月提書面報告這樣嘿"},{"start":13554.582,"end":13572.244,"text":"449494949494949494949494949"},{"start":13573.533,"end":13580.995,"text":"剪裂剪裂不凍結拉剪裂不凍結拉我們還是努力來節能阿捏阿不凍結阿捏好謝謝謝謝召委阿那個459陳召委員這邊謝謝陳委員已經同意改書面報告我們遵照辦理對凍結十分之一對那改書面報告"},{"start":13603.462,"end":13608.064,"text":"阿人460463460463跟474上案 蘇昭偉的是不是可以併案 併案阿檢列100萬免凍結 中水電費阿就對檢列部一點"},{"start":13627.472,"end":13631.254,"text":"科目科目科目科目就是就是併到那個460460那一案對用460併到460"},{"start":13657.247,"end":13666.976,"text":"對460463474然後並到460這桿用健保業務那475的話那個謝謝陳昭志我已經同意簽名改凍結健保業務200萬提書面報告"},{"start":13680.68,"end":13703.19,"text":"對嗎?嘿但是你就是說這個報告裡面我們需要看的這個資料我在上面寫到我們需要了解整個就是更透明的一些建立更透明指標啦那費用集中度的變化啦整個科學醫療機構的那個藥費佔率加加它金額變化等等這個我們希望能夠在報告中呈現的部分"},{"start":13703.57,"end":13712.076,"text":"好!我們來努力!好!好!好!處長你答應喔!嘿!對啊!對啊!對啊!我們來答應把它呈現出來!好!世紀無咒!嘿!"},{"start":13714.535,"end":13718.158,"text":"再來是477 劉建國委員477 477 477會口急昨天已經取得那個劉委員的同意簽名謝謝跟450470併案以450為主改動那個健保200萬"},{"start":13741.407,"end":13765.993,"text":"這我講一下好不好?我講一下,我保證你聽一下啦,因為昨天來要跟我拜託我簽約的時候,我一句也給他印好了,但是我給他看說我們是不是有什麼事前不同意的狀況啦,就那一天針對在健保裡面要把那個喊病的藥,我們是在家嘛,對不對?對,我們是家,然後那個心藥部分,癌症心藥部分其實也是算是家,對"},{"start":13767.914,"end":13788.552,"text":"對但是你們怎麼會有不同的說法說什麼要把要去要去從健保裡面把它移出來然後前面的是衛部的新聞稿後面在行政院的新聞稿去修正我是覺得這個有點奇怪然後我拿給署長看然後確實我們自己衛部裡面的次長級的都還講這種話所以你這個報導會呈現出來這個樣子那當然無可厚非啊"},{"start":13793.633,"end":13817.67,"text":"我是搞不清楚為什麼是衛福部的新聞稿先出來然後修正竟然是用行政院去發稿對阿你看這個事情發生到現在沒有任何一個我跟衛福部反映沒有一個人來回覆我什麼狀況這你們出問題啦對喔這教育局你們看是就是大家要去付錢這要大三要特三存資看人就要動一頁那個那個那個那個是行政院的新聞稿"},{"start":13824.949,"end":13835.784,"text":"沒有 前面是衛部先搞 那個署長也有看到台北醫院那一場 去台北醫院那一場對對 就是那一場 那個跟我也報到 因為那個行政院的新聞稿 那個是什麼"},{"start":13841.992,"end":13859.45,"text":"那個是行政院的新聞稿後來那天因為我們張燦有提到說您看那個很生氣說怎麼可以把罕要移出那個總額其實是沒有的所以後來我們跟行政院溝通之後有在修正確的文字所以那個不是衛福部的新聞稿那個是行政院的新聞稿"},{"start":13860.458,"end":13864.12,"text":"的確這個非常複雜但是韓病我們在健保絕對沒有移出來而且甚至在健保的總額裡面還加錢"},{"start":13888.888,"end":13911.157,"text":"我先講這個健保本身的總額裡面我們現在在採的當中我們一直強調要加點錢另外我們也感謝行政院在最後一刻特別額外在撥公務預算20萬那個是額外的公務預算所以總共原來的健保一點一毛錢也沒有減少甚至增加"},{"start":13911.997,"end":13940.467,"text":"加上這21那這個建國委員也有跟我指導這個部分那因為這個有一點在寫的我個人覺得在寫的當中把他加那個移出什麼護理會什麼什麼護理什麼中長城計畫什麼移出移出這幾個委員不應該把憲兵包括進去那台國會你知道嗎有的事實是移出不會做啦移出不會做但是憲兵是沒有移出"},{"start":13941.636,"end":13943.077,"text":"真的感謝建國委員跟大家的關心謝謝"},{"start":13969.85,"end":13996.988,"text":"所以寒病的藥是健保輸出嗎?多數會超過100億寒病在吃的食物是國健輸出嗎?他有一些營養品嘛那一年到吃多少?應該好幾千萬好幾億藥大部分都是健保出嗎?對寒藥所以家屬沒有什麼負擔吧?"},{"start":14001.639,"end":14028.892,"text":"當然還有一些還沒有納入啦所以行政院才會又多預注21就是有一些含藥還沒有納入的因為上次第8屆立委的時候有家屬要去哪裡治病還出來募款在後山的募到最後出去回來還沒有用完那些錢不曉得要怎麼辦那個看起來很悲慘真的是搞到最後真的是大家灰頭土臉所以不應該有再有那種事情發生吧不會了吧現在不會吧"},{"start":14029.272,"end":14054.802,"text":"現在幾乎都像上次提的那個是像SMA的那個喊要嘛那現在都已經全面給付了對一年就對一年就200塊478478是陳昭之委員還是要因為這個是那個只是用要我們會持續的檢討啦所以是不是可以請委員說免檢列啦然後凍結我們來努力這樣子"},{"start":14057.172,"end":14084.865,"text":"我還是先謝謝劉委員剛剛把喊病就是說一定要放在總額裡不讓他們覺得孤單被踢出去那第62條我們討論的時候其實你這個也放在這個附帶決議現在卓院長已經說點數要到0.9了那我們現在剛剛一直跟你要求重病你要照顧你要保護那這個只是要因為不然你就去修法因為你違法30年啊你要處理啊而且我要告訴大家就是說他不是因為這個都相對都便宜有這幾塊錢的要他不是說"},{"start":14085.725,"end":14108.387,"text":"﹗"},{"start":14108.667,"end":14132.876,"text":"現在在全面上大概在還有800項左右嘛啊這800項裡面呢有一些我們可能我一直跟你講是行為會改變啊因為你自己都告訴我們說啊陳署長告訴我們說你只要少看一次門診就省300億我們可以拿來做很多重要的事情這個是你們署一直在宣導的事情啊對但是因為國人平均17到18次看診嚇死人了"},{"start":14133.796,"end":14149.628,"text":"但是這個八百項的指示用藥裡面齁 那麼還是有一些不同 不是說全部都是通通都不附啦 因為有些比如說有些是公衛用藥 有一些是急救用藥 還有一些是小孩子進行的藥"},{"start":14150.669,"end":14169.49,"text":"好那些還有一些用量很大那個會影響到民眾馬上的就醫全醫的所以我們是在檢討有一些我們會把它逐步的秘書你要買就保留錢不然就是我剛剛講的就是我放在凍結然後你那個進擊度你那個你那個字我要有有時間進度的一個做法了"},{"start":14170.33,"end":14195.124,"text":"我們有時程啦我知道你有壓力但是我們就是因為這個反而在那邊而且我們要照顧重病嘛保險要照顧重病所以我是讓世界有民意的我們代表就是代表民意啊民意給你一個支持就是說讓你我們照顧重病要照顧非常重要我們今天談到喊病又談到一些細胞療法談到再生醫療我們要照顧那你都說錢不夠其實我非常清楚大家不要以為藥品通過給付就等於給付了"},{"start":14196.325,"end":14221.23,"text":"他事實上幾乎不到30%更是又限制人家用幾次又哪些人才能用其實那個真相只有很多人不知道因為我在裡面30年我都知道所以其實重病要照顧啦真的不讓人家因病而窮但是這個不會讓人家因病而窮嘛不要剪裂啦我剪裂拿掉不然凍結凍結多少啦"},{"start":14224.741,"end":14229.985,"text":"維持五百萬兩百萬就好啦兩百萬啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦對啦"},{"start":14259.522,"end":14259.682,"text":"臺北臺中門5%"},{"start":14278.841,"end":14280.862,"text":"謝謝陳昭智委員：已經簽名改為主決議。"},{"start":14300.461,"end":14305.166,"text":"改組決議了好感謝陳委員584這個保留協商這個是喜慶營的639"},{"start":14321.361,"end":14334.666,"text":"639跟637這個都是那個水電但是因為國際中央所真的經費拮据齁是不是實驗室能夠要維持能不能不能檢列檢列我們實驗室開不下去啦是不是能夠在就639這邊併在這邊凍結5%凍結5%"},{"start":14344.411,"end":14344.651,"text":"637變639這個凍水一定會5%"},{"start":14359.335,"end":14370.785,"text":"第641案來我們看一下640案先說明一下是謝謝陳委員改組決議然後641案是剛剛口誤這個是要改凍結50萬就641案是陳慶威的他是凍結50萬好那就二輪結束了"},{"start":14387.144,"end":14398.322,"text":"六四三?他多少講啊?我講一檔一咖哩剪五趴這個才兩萬五齁是不是能夠剪小"},{"start":14401.903,"end":14403.044,"text":"6.4.3不要選啦 刪掉啦 改組決議啦 6.3.9你要靠什麼"},{"start":14416.886,"end":14419.587,"text":"639是凍結5%跟639這個都是水電會是凍結5%以639為主637併到639比照王振熙佛心"},{"start":14443.056,"end":14444.277,"text":"五十案來這變成三輪了齁"},{"start":14476.459,"end":14480.601,"text":"國務院大使是長照師出大頭嗎?不是喔?這不是你們出大頭的嗎?這兩個人?"},{"start":14507.728,"end":14509.872,"text":"對啦,所以那個經費出大頭是你們嗎?還是他們?所以跟長照室沒關係?不對吧?"},{"start":14518.888,"end":14542.693,"text":"我知道,國務委員的案我已經處理過了啦,我已經出國所以不是長照式?這什麼?包含55案,昨天已經給你55案這個耶這是誰的?對啊這個也不是來來來,50案先處理,現在怎麼樣?沒有啦,50案先處理啊50案沒來嘛沒來就我自己刮刮來就對了齁?"},{"start":14547.952,"end":14557.46,"text":"市長請坐我前兩天有打電話去問你們副市長他打我現在長照是一個體系"},{"start":14568.75,"end":14587.966,"text":"不管我們跟機構,不管我們跟局部,不管我們的常在呼車,其實我們通通所有面向我們都要處理的當常在呼車給這個商業保險的費用是地方政府的福康巴士的費率的三倍這個沒有道理"},{"start":14589.701,"end":14610.912,"text":"那你如果覺得這個3A保險是屬於這個市場自由的經濟在亂的那你會出問題到時候你們處理這麼多的常在屋車這些人如果沒有辦法經營下去你有三個方式嘛第一個是常在屋車第二個是特約第三個是那個白牌"},{"start":14611.872,"end":14637.732,"text":"好,然後這一個是最大宗,這最大宗沒辦法贏的時候,他要跑去哪裡?對,這,這,對,其他共和我允許委員這邊說明齁,那呃,首先齁,就是呃,我們所謂的,剛剛委員特別關心到說呃,長照車是復康巴士的三倍齁,事實上在目前的,欸,目前的保險沒有這樣的規定對,沒有這樣的規定"},{"start":14641.174,"end":14661.084,"text":"那事實上在我們的長照交通接送車的補助裡面就是給他的這些相關營運的補貼的部分每一輛車就是一年有80萬那我們要求的強制險的部分就只有汽車強制責任險跟乘客的責任保險"},{"start":14662.305,"end":14674.976,"text":"這兩個保險是因為配合交通部的規定這個是一定要的那他可以用這80萬的一些補助裡面去處理他那至於就是說目前這個業界反映的是車體險那這個車體險在任何的車輛他都不是強制"},{"start":14682.102,"end":14704.008,"text":"他都是顧主為了後續如果發生事情責任的時候可以由保險公司這邊來分擔這個損失負擔那所以車體險不會不在我們規範他一定要投保的範圍那這個是先做第一個說明那我們也了解因為我們有跟金管會大概請教過這些相關這個車體險相關的保險的機制"},{"start":14707.529,"end":14725.446,"text":"那金管會他們的立場是說這種非屬於強制性的就是目前是確實就像委員剛剛講的是自由市場機制所以這個各保險業者他怎麼來認列怎麼去核算會有這個車子的肇事記錄或者是一些車齡的這個長短來決定這樣的一個這輛車的那個保費的計收"},{"start":14731.431,"end":14731.451,"text":"國務委員會議"},{"start":14751.678,"end":14753.86,"text":"15分鐘先休息15分鐘然後我們要一點之前要結束"},{"start":14769.998,"end":14780.081,"text":"我們現在了解的狀況是這樣我們問到南華產業保險公司華南產業保險公司其實是分成兩種一個就是自用車一個就是營業車經管會告訴我們說保險公司他們其實是看時照"},{"start":14789.684,"end":14789.704,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":15629.619,"end":15630.319,"text":"我們現在先讀確認病案凍結部分"},{"start":15654.405,"end":15672.854,"text":"第26案第27案並科技業務科技發展工作永續提供高品質健康醫療服務凍結2000萬元第29案第30案第31案第32案第33案第34案並科技業務科技發展工作永續提供高品質健康醫療服務業務費委辦費凍結1000萬"},{"start":15675.996,"end":15679.038,"text":"第84案85案並社會社工及社區發展業務凍結100萬第9494第9696案並保護服務業務強化社會安全網第二期計劃凍結100萬"},{"start":15694.665,"end":15713.088,"text":"第97案第98案並保護服務業務強化社會安全網第二期計劃凍結兩百萬第106案第109案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費用水電費減列五十萬"},{"start":15714.309,"end":15723.097,"text":"第110案到116案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費維持特別費凍結50%第117案第119案並依正業務凍結100萬元"},{"start":15731.844,"end":15737.626,"text":"第144案．250案並依正業務新南向依為合作與產業鏈發展中長程計劃第二期檢列50萬及凍結50萬第167案．174案並依正業務健康臺灣投資醫療永續發展凍結5000萬元"},{"start":15759.369,"end":15768.317,"text":"第203案第204案並心理及口腔健康業務優化偏鄉醫療精進計劃第二期凍結十分之一第108案第206案第207案208案第209案並心理及口腔健康業務國家癌症防治及品質改良計劃凍結300萬元"},{"start":15786.874,"end":15800.358,"text":"第218案至225案並護理及健康照護業務護理人力政策整備中長期計畫凍結300萬。第253案至255案並醫院營運業務凍結800萬。"},{"start":15815.069,"end":15821.478,"text":"第309案第310案第313案第314案並科技業務凍結100萬第317案第319案第320案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費水電費減列5%"},{"start":15832.421,"end":15843.024,"text":"第322案至第338案、第339案並防疫業務凍結100萬。第331案、第332案並防疫業務新型傳染病及流行應變整備及邊境檢疫計劃凍結100萬。"},{"start":15858.564,"end":15875.955,"text":"第363案第364案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費水電費減劣50萬第415案第417案並食品藥物管理業務藥裝管理工作藥品及管制藥品管理計劃凍結500萬"},{"start":15878.897,"end":15892.933,"text":"第425案、第426案並食品藥物管理業務、藥妝管理工作、藥健康、精進藥物及化妝品全生命週期管理第三期計劃檢列50萬"},{"start":15896.758,"end":15903.021,"text":"第436案第444案並科技業務凍結100萬第437案第440案第443案第445案並科技業務業務費水電費科目減列20萬第450案第470案第477案並保險業務凍結200萬第452案第454案"},{"start":15924.236,"end":15928.281,"text":"並健康業務醫療管理推動督導凍結90萬第460案第463案第474案並健康業務保費收繳及醫療費用和副作業減列100萬"},{"start":15942.281,"end":15945.003,"text":"第49495案第505案第522案第533案第545案第555案第556案並國民健康署凍結300萬宣讀完畢這是合併的嗎"},{"start":15971.943,"end":15983.192,"text":"我們現在先讀公務預算主決議文字修正部分第一案衛生福利部與相關團體機關"},{"start":15996.394,"end":16000.721,"text":"法規補唸社社會及家庭署的第571案第572案並健康業務數位身心障礙"},{"start":16006.348,"end":16019.371,"text":"障礙證明規劃及全國身心障礙福利資訊整合平台系統改版計劃凍結30萬第577案第578案第579案第580案第582案並社會福利服務業務凍結200萬第583案第585案第587案第590案並社會福利服務業務推展老人福利服務凍結500萬"},{"start":16034.955,"end":16041.081,"text":"第593案第601案並社會福利服務業務推展身心障礙者福利服務凍結100萬第607案第608案第611案並社會福利服務業務推展兒童及少年福利服務凍結50萬"},{"start":16056.354,"end":16060.555,"text":"第622案第623案第624案第625案並社會福利服務業務強化社會安全網凍結200萬第637案第639案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費水電費凍結5%宣讀完畢"},{"start":16084.153,"end":16090.499,"text":"更正637案639案並一般行政基本行政工作維持業務費水電費減列5%"},{"start":16104.31,"end":16107.752,"text":"現在先讀公務預算主決議文字修正部分開始"},{"start":16130.307,"end":16155.658,"text":"第一案衛生福利部與相關團體機關就下列事項妥為溝通妥善規劃醫事人力培育及應用第6案請衛福部修正計劃積極充實偏鄉牙醫醫療資源第7案原要求衛福部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告第9案一個月改為三個月書面報告前增列文字改善偏遠地區醫師人力之"},{"start":16156.258,"end":16170.791,"text":"第11案原要求衛生福利部應持續積極辦理原鄉及離島地區公費醫師培育及留任獎勵措施。第17案原要求衛生福利部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。"},{"start":16171.792,"end":16186.024,"text":"第18案要求衛生福利部完善科技計畫規劃及資源整合之機制。第19案要求衛生福利部與一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第21案要求衛生福利部應確實管控資訊軟硬體設備費執行。第25案"},{"start":16190.448,"end":16218.451,"text":"要求衛福部將相關內容及成果列入衛福部科技發展計畫成果及績效報告會編提交書面報告。第28案衛福部應將相關內容及成果列入衛福部科技發展計畫成果及績效報告會編報立法院備查。第43案原要求衛生福利部編列科技預算確實辦理相關工作。第49案原此要求衛生福利部積極支持國衛院體入國家重要醫藥衛生議題研究"},{"start":16220.132,"end":16235.496,"text":"回應當前國家在醫療健康方面的迫切需求第51案52案57案原此要求政府因依原住民族健康法規定確實寬列年度預算作為原住民族健康研究中心發展營運與執行研究計劃之用"},{"start":16237.957,"end":16252.706,"text":"第53案原此要求原民會未來繼續委託國衛院原住民族健康研究中心辦理年報編撰時因協助其所需相關資料之申請取得以加速年報內容更新第67案"},{"start":16253.727,"end":16270.373,"text":"要求衛生福利部應準決編列並落實節約能源措施,未來針對增編之費用項目應有相關說明。第70案要求衛生福利部限期於三個月內向本院提交書面報告。第71案刪除凍結數。第76案刪除凍結數專案改書面。"},{"start":16276.28,"end":16296.201,"text":"第81一八十二案,原要求衛生福利部向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第八十三案,要求衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第八十六八十九案,要求衛福部向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。"},{"start":16297.591,"end":16326.309,"text":"第9295及100案要求衛生福利部與一個月內向本院提交書面報告。第102案刪除凍結數。103案原請衛福部向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面檢討報告。第104案原要求衛生福利部與一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第124案請衛生福利部積極推動醫療事故預防及爭議處理法施政相關措施。"},{"start":16326.889,"end":16351.867,"text":"第130案,要求衛生福利部現期於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。第133案,應於一個月內向本院提交書面報告。第138案,原此衛福部應強化委辦業務之必要性,並於三個月內提供書面報告。第146案,要求衛生福利部應妥善"},{"start":16353.008,"end":16366.7,"text":"執行委辦計劃並於計劃內設有執行效益衡量指標以確實達到委辦之預期效益。第152案要求衛生福利部於三個月內向本院提交書面報告。第153案刪除凍結數"},{"start":16368.891,"end":16382.129,"text":"第166167案請衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第177案要求衛生福利部以善意輔導為原則依相關規定辦理牙醫醫院評鑑"},{"start":16383.971,"end":16412.11,"text":"第181案衛生福利部應和時編列心理健康行政管理向下置一般事務費並加強經費控管以利整體資源妥善規劃運用。第187案原此衛生福利部應妥為管理及監督委辦案件履約品質並結合相關部會及地方政府持續推動自殺防治工作以提升我國心理衛生自殺防治及精神醫療服務成效。第189案衛生福利部應持續鼓勵醫療機構投入藥引"},{"start":16414.392,"end":16422.15,"text":"醫療服務、積極輔助藥引治療費用並持續強化毒防中心轉介醫療之流程"},{"start":16423.8,"end":16452.459,"text":"第190案並持續加強獨房中心各管人員留任措施降低人員流動率第191案原此衛生福利部應妥為管理及監督委辦案件履約品質並持續加強獨房中心各管人員留任措施降低人員流動率第193案衛生福利部及法務部應積極辦理司法精神醫療保安處跟處所籌辦作業必力完善社會安全網第196案"},{"start":16454.28,"end":16481.47,"text":"委員要求衛生福利部應積極推行兒童口腔保健維護兒童口腔健康第197案衛生福利部應積極推行口腔保健及口腔癌復健照護工作維護國人口腔健康並於一個月內鄉立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第198案衛生福利部應積極推行各年凌晨口腔保健工作維護國人口腔健康第199案要求衛生福利部應持續強化"},{"start":16484.171,"end":16493.521,"text":"強化對計畫之監督與管理並於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告確保執行成效第二百案"},{"start":16494.881,"end":16522.629,"text":"修正文字與第一案同。第201案,原此衛生福利部應持續結合社政衛政主管單位及地方政府,從資源部件、網絡連結、機構及民間團體、培力等面向規劃,積極強化推展精神病人社區支持服務。第213案,原此要求衛生福利部積極強化護理業務政策規劃及護理品質提升,並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第222案,"},{"start":16523.969,"end":16539.565,"text":"原此要求衛生福利部積極推動護理人力短缺政策對策並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第二二期案要求衛生福利部於一個月內就護理人力政策準備中長程計劃114年推動規劃面"},{"start":16542.628,"end":16562.636,"text":"推動規劃向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第二二八案原此要求衛生福利部積極強化醫療醫院護理正向職場環境並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第二二九案要求衛生福利部一個月內就建構完善住院整合照護服務照護服務"},{"start":16564.136,"end":16579.331,"text":"及輔佐人力制度規劃向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告第二三六案要求衛生福利部限期於一個月內向本院提交書面報告第二四二案原則要求衛福部應積及管控資訊服務費執行"},{"start":16580.993,"end":16606.226,"text":"第二四三案原此要求衛福部應確實管控委辦費執行第二四四案基於訓練業務之必要性請於三個月內向本院提交書面報告第二四六案要求衛生福利部於二個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出兩計劃差異性之書面報告第二四七案原要求衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告"},{"start":16607.83,"end":16627.715,"text":"第248案要求衛生福利部持續針對山地原住民地區之照顧措施嚴禮促進扶持舉措並於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第249案原要求衛生福利部於計畫執行完畢後提供計畫成果摘要報本院"},{"start":16628.335,"end":16650.124,"text":"第261案於建請衛生福利部後面增列與國家衛生研究院高齡醫學暨健康福祉研究中心並於推廣失智症照護雲端護照後面增列之可行性進行研議等文字。第283案建請研議相關計劃引導醫療院所完善在宅住院照護服務。第286案"},{"start":16651.644,"end":16674.527,"text":"持續收集國際規範就現有數十分類方式重新研議與兩個月內提出書面報告與社會福利及衛生環境委員會第二八七案執行報告改為規劃報告第二九零案一個月改為三個月第三零三案倒數第二句句末增列支書面報告第三一一案要求疾病管制署以準結"},{"start":16676.409,"end":16697.629,"text":"經費委員則有效運用資源確保計劃產出具參考價值之實證研究成果並實際應用於疾病防治策略研擬第三一二案確保計劃能順利達成既定目標第三一六案應確實應業務情形事實依序辦理原額調整作業第三二五案"},{"start":16698.703,"end":16705.073,"text":"原要求衛生福利部應積極督導邊境檢疫措施持續精進港部偵檢設備及效能並強化國際港部安全衛生應變韌性"},{"start":16710.58,"end":16736.428,"text":"第三二八三二九案原此要求衛生福利部是未來疫情發展及國際藥物最新研發情形評估將COVID-19抗病毒藥物納入健保給付並加強多寶相關防治業務與地方政府協力推動落實防治工作第三三三案請疾管署確實一個項疫苗接種需求妥適積極推動疫苗接種作業保障國人健康第三四一案"},{"start":16738.176,"end":16764.885,"text":"機關署應預為規劃在地檢驗費裁員問題以確保該計劃藉其後全國防疫檢驗網絡得以持續進行令修正實驗室為檢驗機構。第三四二案委員要求衛生福利部應積極辦理提升行政效率捍衛民眾權益。第三四八三十九案委員要求食藥署提交書面報告。第三五四案專案報告改為書面報告。第三五七案"},{"start":16765.805,"end":16778.964,"text":"委員要求衛生福利部食品藥物管理署向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。第365案刪除凍結束。第366案刪除於一個月內及凍結束。第367案刪除研議檢視獎金發給要件以及凍結束。"},{"start":16782.128,"end":16799.197,"text":"第三六八至三七二案均刪除凍結數第三七四案衛生福利部食品藥物管理署應持續加強稽查及輔導食品業者於非登不可登錄之正確性第三七五案要求食藥署督促地方衛生局加強輔導業者辦理並對違規業者依法採採除第三七六案刪除凍結數"},{"start":16806.291,"end":16810.695,"text":"第379案 提出書面報告第380385至388案 刪除凍結數393 394案 刪除凍結數專案報告改為書面報告第395案 刪除凍結數399案 刪除凍結數專案報告改為書面報告第401至403案 刪除凍結數"},{"start":16829.878,"end":16844.603,"text":"第408案原始衛生福利部食品藥物管理署應強化藥品供應監測機制積極監測相關藥品庫存及生產情形以確保穩定藥品供應第413案刪除凍結數第420案專案報告改書面報告第422案刪除凍結數"},{"start":16855.387,"end":16877.312,"text":"第44案請衛生福利部競速修法第446案本部中央健康保險署應準決開支使預算資源發揮最大效益48案中央健康保險署應準決開支使預算資源發揮最大效益451案刪除凍結數453案"},{"start":16882.608,"end":16901.111,"text":"建保署應於3個月內向衛環委員會繳交中國匯台政策之因應政策書面報告。456案刪除倒數第4行至第2行並修正為處方國產學民藥規劃相關獎勵措施。458案專案報告改書面報告。465案專案報告改書面報告。466案"},{"start":16912.173,"end":16928.251,"text":"要求衛生福利部中央健康保險署持續強化治安措施遵循資通安全法及執法相關資通安全規範確保資訊安全保障人民權益467案一個月改為三個月471案"},{"start":16930.433,"end":16949.77,"text":"要求衛生福利部加速研議手冊電子化規劃作業於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。四期商案 原此衛生福利部中央健康保健署應遵循計劃目標妥善規劃推動使預算發揮最大效益。"},{"start":16951.854,"end":16970.95,"text":"476案刪除凍結束479案專案報告改書面報告492案藥物改為醫療服務499案原要求衛生福利部國民健康署應積極管控各項委辦計劃執行效率及經費使用成效"},{"start":16972.947,"end":17000.548,"text":"五百案,原要求衛生福利部國民健康署應積極檢討各項委辦計畫執行效率及經費使用成效,於一個月內提出書面報告。五零三案,原要求衛生福利部國民健康署於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出國民健康調查及計畫管理中心運作書面報告。"},{"start":17003.193,"end":17012.342,"text":"507 一個月改為三個月,專案報告改書面報告509 專案報告改為提出高齡健康數位學習書面報告513 專案報告改為書面報告"},{"start":17023.049,"end":17047.652,"text":"515案,專案報告改為癌症徵記資料以人工智慧協助及FHIR格式化之規劃書面報告。519案,專案報告改書面報告。520案,專案報告改為書面報告。525案,一個月改為三個月。"},{"start":17049.345,"end":17066.354,"text":"529案一個月改為三個月專案報告改為強化成人預防保健之具體作為書面報告530案一個月改為三個月專案報告改為強化慢性病防治及健康行為促進相關之具體作為"},{"start":17068.902,"end":17095.496,"text":"五三一案要求國建署於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出援助民族三高繁殖之具體作為五三四案刪除凍結數五三八案一個月改為三個月專案報告改為郵政患者健康照護成果之書面報告五四零案要求衛生福利部"},{"start":17097.301,"end":17123.79,"text":"於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交人工生殖補助政策經濟措施五四二案一個月改為六個月專案報告改為人工生殖補助政策對國家經濟與社會之影響書面報告五五零案原國民健康署因強化"},{"start":17125.728,"end":17145.272,"text":"推管癌症篩檢重要性並提升篩檢服務量。午午一案原國民健康署應強化推管癌症篩檢重要性及並提升篩檢服務量。午午三案專案報告改為將高風險族群列為擴大篩檢服務對象之規劃書面報告。午午四案"},{"start":17153.308,"end":17178.967,"text":"原國民健康署應強化推廣癌症篩檢重要性並提升篩檢服務量。565案要求衛生福利部持續精進早場和相關食物給付措施。569案要求衛生福利部社會及家庭署向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出精進輔導之書面報告。"},{"start":17181.555,"end":17207.246,"text":"570案要求衛生福利部社會及家庭署積極辦理。573案要求衛生福利部社會及家庭署一個月內向本院提交書面報告。574案要求衛生福利部社會及家庭署於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。575案"},{"start":17209.271,"end":17222.856,"text":"請衛生福利部社家署於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告576案專案報告改書面報告581案刪除簡略數及凍結數586案要求社家署"},{"start":17235.66,"end":17264.585,"text":"一個月內提出相關改善計畫規劃並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告五八八案請衛生福利部善用各類預算經費落實強化願名照顧措施以提升老人照顧服務品質五九二案"},{"start":17266.159,"end":17292.168,"text":"刪除凍結數五九四案一個月改為兩個月專案報告改為書面報告五九五案一個月改為兩個月相關改善計畫改為書面報告六零二案專案報告改為書面報告六零四案"},{"start":17295.151,"end":17316.018,"text":"要求衛福部社家署於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。605案一個月改為三個月,專案報告改為書面報告。609案一個月改為三個月,專案報告改為書面報告。612案刪除凍結數。6226案刪除凍結數。"},{"start":17322.34,"end":17348.651,"text":"635案應持續推動各項基礎性系統系統性及長期性之中醫藥研究進而進行癌症藥物研發以守護更多珍貴的生命636案應持續進行中醫藥之科學化與現代化研究強化中醫藥轉移醫學發展中醫藥實證醫學以提升老化或高齡者健康照護"},{"start":17352.1,"end":17380.589,"text":"638案國家中醫藥研究所應積極規劃活化措施以創造國有資產效益。62案專案報告改為書面報告令除印度及越南外擴大規劃與泰國及菲律賓之交流。644案"},{"start":17382.305,"end":17409.996,"text":"國家中醫藥研究所應強化對委辦研究之平和,針對臺產中藥進行相關研究,找出臺產中藥的優勢。第八案一個月改為三個月,專案報告改為書面報告。"},{"start":17414.52,"end":17439.028,"text":"第10案應積極辦理原鄉及離島公費醫師培育及留任檢慮措施。第12案原要求衛生福利部應依原住民族健康法之授權精進養成計畫公費醫師及護理師之培育機制及提升預算使用之效益。"},{"start":17441.584,"end":17469.025,"text":"第二十案雙案報告改為書面報告第二十三案衛生福利部應確實管控委辦費執行二十四案衛福部應積極推動永續提供高品質醫療服務各項措施計畫內容及成果應列入衛福部科技發展計畫成果及績效報告會編"},{"start":17470.723,"end":17498.003,"text":"於第一季內提供書面報告。三十五案,專案報告改書面報告。三十六案,要求衛生福利部審慎運用經費、積極落實績效管理並提交成果報告。三十七案,要求衛生福利部審慎運用經費、積極落實績效管理並提交成果報告與各層級"},{"start":17500.726,"end":17519.641,"text":"醫院溝通資訊需求在不增加醫院過多負擔下協助升級394042案要求衛生福利部審慎運用經費積極落實計畫績效管理並提交成果報告"},{"start":17524.263,"end":17548.196,"text":"454648原此要求衛生福利部積極並持續推動大數據精準決策,強化智慧政府並於114年底提交書面成果報告。58原此要求衛生福利部敦促國家衛生研究院於一個月內提出書面報告。"},{"start":17550.429,"end":17565.533,"text":"599案原始要求衛生福利部針對健康大數據永續平台計畫110-113計畫執行成果於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。61案專案報告改書面報告。64案"},{"start":17571.864,"end":17593.762,"text":"專案報告改書面報告包含平均點值0.95所需經費之算法各分區段攤扣之情形及健保總額以轉公務預算支應之項目。66案積極推動健保改善措施以確保健保永續經營"},{"start":17596.368,"end":17606.657,"text":"68案要求衛生福利部應積極落實節約人員措施本與準決原則減少空談支出73案刪解凍結數74案刪除凍結數75案三個月內提出書面報告"},{"start":17619.043,"end":17642.27,"text":"請衛生衛福部加強與勞動部合作積極協助低收中低收入戶就業並於社會救助法修法規劃強化就業脫貧措施第77案一個月改為三個月90案"},{"start":17643.584,"end":17665.269,"text":"就不但對待兒少事件之裁罰處理流程。91案要求衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出強化兒少性剝削網路犯罪凡字書面報告。99案刪除凍結訴。101案"},{"start":17671.257,"end":17690.371,"text":"原此要求衛生福利部於一個月內針對中產層計畫協助地方政府強化相關性騷擾繁殖宣導教育重點行業查核若實申訴案件審議與被害人權益維護事項提出書面報告"},{"start":17692.505,"end":17709.46,"text":"105案衛生福利部應要求主管之各財團法人積極配合政府待遇調整政策以激勵士氣。108案原要求衛生福利部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面檢討報告。121案刪除凍結數。126案刪除凍結數。129案"},{"start":17721.172,"end":17741.643,"text":"要求衛生福利部積極檢討醫視泛射師繼續教育課程與積分審查認定及採認之醫視人員團體資格。現在立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。"},{"start":17745.755,"end":17761.772,"text":"131要求衛生福利部準決支出準決經費並加強向替代役宣導節能省電之觀念。134增訂期限一個月內提出報告。137專案報告改書面報告。"},{"start":17765.942,"end":17789.239,"text":"145案,委員要求衛生福利部因於一個月內將2024臺灣醫療科技展計畫成果報告及全年來臺使用醫療人次書面報立法院備查151案,專案報告改書面報告156案,一個月改三個月專案報告改書面報告"},{"start":17793.231,"end":17820.088,"text":"159案兩個月改三個月向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出專案報告162案專案報告改書面報告163案專案報告改書面報告168案要求衛生福利部於六個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告"},{"start":17822.95,"end":17849.521,"text":"183案衛生福利部應結合相關部會持續強化各項自殺反制策略及作為並提具精進措施之書面報告以有效降低國人自殺死亡率188案衛福部以檢討改善並提具降低負荷精進措施之書面報告以提升各案服務品質"},{"start":17851.588,"end":17874.1,"text":"192案原始衛生福利部應督導地方政府積極於114年底完成心理衛生社工輔助人力禁用以達案量負荷1比20目標提供關懷反噬品質並持續精進人員人身安全保障措施提供友善安全資產環境"},{"start":17877.443,"end":17899.809,"text":"194案書面報告並落實推動以綿密社會安全完195案衛生福利部應針對中高齡國人積極推行口腔保健及口腔癌復健照護工作維護國人口腔健康尤其針對社區民眾於一個月內提書面報告"},{"start":17902.281,"end":17929.813,"text":"二零二案原此衛生福利部應持續補助地方政府衛生局結合在地民間團體提升精神病友及家屬社區支持服務量的人二一二案要求衛生福利部積極改善護理資產環境並向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出護理人力政策推動書面報告二一五案"},{"start":17931.187,"end":17949.872,"text":"衛福部應積極協助原鄉地區輔具相關之預算。219案,原此要求衛生福利部積極推動護理人員改善方案並向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。230案,刪除凍結數。"},{"start":17953.606,"end":17976.483,"text":"231案要求衛生福利部積極辦理中藥查驗登記及查產業務為國人用藥安全品質把關以守護國人健康233案原要求衛生福利部應加強辦理越南泰國等新南向國家要用植物考察及種植評估相關計畫以協助產業開發出新的中藥材來原國"},{"start":17982.168,"end":18005.969,"text":"234要求衛生福利部分階段於臺東花蓮及其他各區辦理中藥本草文化節與均衡各區域發展。235要求衛生福利部加強辦理中醫及中藥產業人才培育相關計畫。254要求衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。"},{"start":18008.571,"end":18028.544,"text":"案要求衛生福利部於三個月內提出書面報告案要求衛福部是醫療正義調處後三個月內提出檢討方案案要求衛生福利部依福惠積極檢討官方網站設計並通過無障礙網站空間服務認證並加速辦理臺灣醫院優化作業"},{"start":18037.523,"end":18065.532,"text":"二六零案要求衛生福利部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告二六四案兩個月改為三個月二九三案請衛福部就都會原住民之醫療健康照護需求於一一四年委託原住民族研究學者或實務工作者進行研究"},{"start":18069.693,"end":18089.865,"text":"294案衛福部因依據兒童及少年福利與權益保障法納入兒童及少年事故繁致協調會議或兒童及少年福利與權益推動小組會議討論"},{"start":18092.9,"end":18119.993,"text":"並依學校衛生法協同教育部嚴定推動落實學童私立保健。296案積極強化醫院護理正向職場環境推動護理薪資結構合理透明並嚴議擬定相關偏鄉離島地區醫院額外獎勵方案以提升偏鄉護理人員薪資待遇。299案"},{"start":18121.633,"end":18145.345,"text":"一月五日修正為一月十五日三百案要求衛生福利部二零二五年文化健康站及巷弄殘照站造福員薪資研議隨軍公教調整百分之三之可行性三零四案"},{"start":18147.642,"end":18175.138,"text":"原此以要求衛生福利衛福部將國家衛生研究院論壇兒童預防保健服務精進之政策及建議對兒童視力保健之建議請提供教育部並會同教育部於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出精進兒童視力保健書面報告"},{"start":18179.061,"end":18200.648,"text":"305一個月改為三個月提升勞工健康政策之建議提供勞動部推動相關政策或修法之參考規劃之建議是書面報告308疾病管事署"},{"start":18202.425,"end":18216.839,"text":"因持續積極推動預繁接種資料,自動借接,完善預繁接種數位化業管管理及服務品質與效能。"},{"start":18220.114,"end":18237.482,"text":"318案,仍此要求疾管署於114年辦理主管及同仁之職場霸凌之人提升訓練各一場次並提高個別員工心理資産協助補助額度以提供員工良好工作環境並於二個月內提交書面報告"},{"start":18239.693,"end":18250.8,"text":"321案要求衛生福利部疾病管制署持續精進各項繁殖政策並於一個月內提出具體達成各項KPI之精進檢討書面報告以達2035消除結核的目標"},{"start":18257.088,"end":18276.087,"text":"327案要求衛生福利部加強督導相關繁殖業務與地方政府共同協力推動資深員清除作業並於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。 330案專案報告改書面報告"},{"start":18277.634,"end":18304.748,"text":"三四三案要求衛生福利部疾病管制署應就新建工程採原地重建原實驗室不能中斷運作而需異地執行法定業務一節力求準確公談並全力積極趕辦主體工程招標工作三四四案創案報告改書面報告"},{"start":18308.165,"end":18317.648,"text":"3.55案專案報告改書面報告4.14案專案報告改書面報告4.19案專案報告改書面報告4.24案刪除凍結數4.83案並於大家醫計劃納入區域醫院"},{"start":18332.79,"end":18360.64,"text":"494949494949"},{"start":18361.783,"end":18381.715,"text":"49494949494949"},{"start":18384.03,"end":18409.326,"text":"501案應確實訂定飲食殖地規劃推動內容並於三個月內將規劃情形以書面報告送立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會502案建請於三個月內提出506案專案報告改為精準環境之健康四人計畫成果之書面報告"},{"start":18412.369,"end":18437.577,"text":"508 專案報告改為強化高齡健康數位學習書面報告510 要求衛生福利部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出成果書面報告512 要求衛生福利部應持續提供民眾身體活動環境精進促進全民健康514 專案報告改為後續維運規劃之書面報告"},{"start":18443.6,"end":18467.676,"text":"516案要求衛生福利部國民健康署積極辦理以提升行政效益並於一個月內提交書面報告521案原國民健康署應強化推廣癌症篩檢重要性並提升篩檢服務量並於二個月內提供擴大癌篩規劃配套作為之書面報告"},{"start":18469.602,"end":18481.925,"text":"五二四案專案報告改為書面報告五二八案專案報告改為強化三高繁殖之具體作為五三五案"},{"start":18487.664,"end":18513.89,"text":"針對擴大承建服務包括年齡下修至30歲新增尿酸項目並提升給付等應提出強化相關宣導工作並精進相關預防措施五三七案書面報告改為消除吸乾具體政策成果五三九案刪除簡列數"},{"start":18515.827,"end":18541.381,"text":"541雙案報告改為《人工生殖補助政策經濟措施之書面報告》548案要求衛生福利部國民健康署需落實兒童預防保健服務及強化宣導並經濟相關預防措施549案積極推動優生保健法修法工作"},{"start":18542.632,"end":18556.316,"text":"並於二個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。552案預防保健服務之乳房X官攝影醫療機構資格審查及品質監測原則。557案"},{"start":18565.558,"end":18584.433,"text":"原國民健康署應強化推廣癌症篩檢重要性並提升篩檢服務量。558案原此要求衛生福利部應落實第5期國家癌症繁殖計畫並持續依擴大癌症篩檢項目積極辦理。559案專案報告改書面報告。566案"},{"start":18592.949,"end":18620.099,"text":"並請國民健康署協同教育部589案刪除凍結數596案兩個月改為三個月597案兩個月改為六個月598案研議身心障礙者輔具費用補助基準基準表修正作業原則以落實輔具補助"},{"start":18621.601,"end":18627.365,"text":"定期檢討機制599案刪除凍結數600案要地方政府研議後於3個月內提出書面報告603案"},{"start":18639.468,"end":18657.702,"text":"花東地區及偏鄉地區為罪。要求衛生福利部社會及家庭屬於三個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。610案增訂期限為兩個月內提出書面報告。646案並進行臺產中藥材相關研究。"},{"start":18669.667,"end":18673.89,"text":"609案專案報告改書面報告78案刪除凍結數80案刪除凍結數118案專案報告改書面報告125案"},{"start":18696.598,"end":18721.127,"text":"明定主治醫師與醫療機構的勞動契約相關規範一個月改為三個月148案一個月改為三個月專案報告改為書面報告154案要求衛福部社會及家庭署"},{"start":18722.816,"end":18743.911,"text":"向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出本部少子女化執行成果書面報告157案一個月改為三個月三個月內提出該預算運用的詳細用途內容的專案報告176案"},{"start":18748.803,"end":18773.933,"text":"一個月改為三個月專案報告改書面報告217案原始要求衛生福利部就積極強化醫院護理正向職場環境向社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告240案案由保留第一段及最後一段修正為"},{"start":18775.746,"end":18784.595,"text":"衛生福利部於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告362案刪除檢列數536案書面報告改為逼行肝炎篩檢精進作為544案"},{"start":18801.929,"end":18822.197,"text":"原此要求衛生福利部國民健康署或同中央健康保險署於二個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出針對早產而單株抗體用藥之健保給付書面報告。640案節省經費支出"},{"start":18830.986,"end":18846.16,"text":"643案國家中醫藥研究所應積極落實節能措施以節省經費支出。645案為準決國家財政國家中醫藥研究所應積極採取節能措施。宣讀完畢"},{"start":18859.579,"end":18880.726,"text":"針對本次會議做以下決議第一中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於勞動部衛生福利部及環境部主管公務預算案均已審查完畢提報院會討論院會討論前需交黨團協商"},{"start":18889.108,"end":18913.356,"text":"應會討論時由蘇召集委員勤選及方召集委員秀芳補充說明有關正式別稅出預算水桶以上機關別審查結果調整本次會議到此結束謝謝大家辛苦了"}]}},{"id":"16424","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16424","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fcc7e719fa4ce89b4f819ba3698dbd896e6d1319bf84c916822d3bf5b1b95f114e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分。\n二、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案。\n【12月25日及26日兩天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:30:59+08:00","end_time":"2024-12-26T14:06:00+08:00","duration":20101,"影片長度":"05:35:01","委員發言時間":"08:30:59 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:"第15項﹐臺灣臺北地方法院24182,649元。第16項﹐臺灣士林地方法院111,125元。第17項﹐臺灣新北地方法院1810236,000元。第18項﹐臺灣桃園地方法院1510576,449元。第19項﹐臺灣新竹地方法院7102536,000元。"},{"start":2558.53,"end":2583.795,"text":"第二十項,台灣苗栗地方法院四億四千八百五十九萬八千元第二十一項,台灣台中地方法院十八億九千一百五十二萬一千元第二十二項,台灣南投地方法院四億零三百四十一萬四千元第二十三項,台灣彰化地方法院八億二千二百六十九萬六千元第二十四項,台灣雲林地方法院五億四千七百二十九萬五千元第二十五項,台灣嘉義地方法院"},{"start":2584.395,"end":2594.953,"text":"六億五千一百五十七萬二千元第二十六項．灣臺南地方法院十二億四千一百八十四萬三千元第二十七項．灣橋頭地方法院六億六千七百五十五萬元"},{"start":2596.087,"end":2607.718,"text":"第二十八項台灣高雄地方法院12億47176000元第二十九項台灣屏東地方法院6億90362000元第三十項台灣台東地方法院3億18319000元第三十一項台灣花蓮地方法院4億23459000元第三十二項台灣宜蘭地方法院3億88096000元"},{"start":2619.85,"end":2623.653,"text":"第33項台灣金融地方法院4億39623000元。第34項台灣屏龍台灣澎湖地方法院1億52452000元。第35項台灣高雄少年及家事法院3億89065000元。"},{"start":2638.171,"end":2646.097,"text":"第36項福建高等法院金門分院45045606,000元第37項福建金門地方法院Fi16964,000元第38項福建連江地方法院Fi37748,000元"},{"start":2654.045,"end":2663.911,"text":"第二案司法院主管114年度財團法人法律扶助基金會預算書案業務計劃請參與預算書收支預算總收入16億9291萬4千元總支出16億9291萬4千元本期逾處0元結繳公庫金額及轉投資計劃均無劣數固定資產投資2451萬3千元國庫增波基金額500萬元"},{"start":2680.42,"end":2701.733,"text":"繼續宣讀委員提案部分請參閱提案彙整表及提案書面內容114年度中央政府總預算案委員提案彙整表司法院主管收支部分稅入預算部分第一案第二款罰款及賠償收入第三十五項臺灣臺北地方法院第一幕罰金罰還及貸金第一節罰金罰還第二案"},{"start":2704.455,"end":2729.375,"text":"第二款法款及賠償收入第三十五項臺灣臺北地方法院第二幕末入及末收財務以上二案均為委員審發會等所提之主決議案稅出預算部分第四款第一項司法院第一案派員出國計劃簡列八百萬元委員黃國昌等提案第二案第一幕一般行政簡列一千六百萬元委員黃國昌等提案"},{"start":2730.235,"end":2738.443,"text":"第三案刻目同前檢列500萬元凍結50%委員羅志強等提案。第四案刻目同前檢列300萬元凍結100萬元委員翁曉林等提案。第五案刻目同前凍結30%委員吳思瑤、吳立華等提案。"},{"start":2747.992,"end":2758.937,"text":"第六案,第一幕向下,業務費之水電費,減列370萬元,凍結20%,委員黃國昌等提案。第七案,第一幕向下,業務費之委辦費,凍結32萬元,委員審法會林淑芬等提案。第八案,第一幕向下,領一人員維持中人事費之獎金,減列330萬5千元,委員羅志強等提案。"},{"start":2772.324,"end":2791.034,"text":"第九案第一幕向下零二基本行政工作維持業務費中業務費之特別費檢列一百零九萬五千元凍結一百零九萬五千元委員翁曉林等提案。第十案至第二十三案系針對第一幕向下零三辦理司法行政業務之提案。"},{"start":2791.914,"end":2813.365,"text":"第10案緊列五千萬元委員黃國昌等提案。第11案科目同前緊列兩千萬元凍結百分之二十委員黃國昌等提案。第12案科目同前凍結一億四千三百八十萬九千元委員謝龍介等提案。第13案科目同前凍結百分之十委員黃國昌等提案。"},{"start":2814.125,"end":2829.148,"text":"第14案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第15案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第16案坑木桐前凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。第17案業務費至一般事務費僅列100萬元凍結50%委員羅志強等提案。第18案業務費至大陸地區旅費凍結337000元委員謝龍介等提案。"},{"start":2843.231,"end":2862.987,"text":"第19案坑木桐前凍結80%委員羅志強、徐巧欣等提案。第20案業務費之國外旅費減列200萬元凍結100萬元委員翁小林等提案。第21案坑木桐前減列23萬元委員鍾嘉斌等提案。第22案坑木桐前凍結30%"},{"start":2865.689,"end":2875.938,"text":"委員羅志強、徐曉新等提案。第23案刻目銅錢凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第24案第一幕向下臨時辦理電腦資訊作業簡列3000萬元凍結30%委員羅志強等提案。第25案刻目銅錢簡列100萬元凍結150萬元委員林思明等提案。"},{"start":2888.208,"end":2899.532,"text":"第26案坑木同前凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第27案坑木同前檢列4000萬元凍結30%委員羅志強等提案。第28案第三目審判行政凍結100萬元委員吳思耀等提案。"},{"start":2905.754,"end":2927.373,"text":"第29案坑木同前凍結100萬元委員巫思耀等提案。第30案第三幕向下領一辦理民事審判行政凍結20萬元委員審法會零數分等提案。第31案第三幕向下領一辦理民事審判行政中業務費凍結三分之一委員審法會零數分等提案。"},{"start":2928.194,"end":2957.322,"text":"第三十二案第三目向下零二辦理刑事審判行政檢列一千萬元凍結百分之三十委員黃國昌等提案第三十三案科目同前凍結二分之一委員謝龍介等提案第三十四案科目同前凍結三分之一委員審發會林淑芬等提案第三十五案第三目向下零四辦理少年及家事審判行政凍結百分之二十委員吳宗憲等提案第三十六案第三目"},{"start":2958.622,"end":2984.827,"text":"審判行政零四辦理少年及家事審判行政科目同前凍結一百萬元委員宗家兵范雲等提案第三十七案第四目司法業務規劃司法業務規劃嚴考凍結五十萬元委員吳思耀等提案第三十八案第一四目向下領域辦理研究改進司法制度業務凍結一百萬元委員吳小林等提案第三十九案"},{"start":2985.487,"end":2996.503,"text":"刻目銅錢凍結10%委員吳思堯、吳立華等提案第40案第5目一般建築及設備第一屆交通及運輸設備上下01交通及運輸設備檢列265萬元"},{"start":3001.59,"end":3014.734,"text":"委員羅志強等提案第41案坑木同前檢列252萬元委員翁小林等提案第42案第五目第一節向下01交通及運輸設備向下中設備及投資之運輸設備費檢列265萬"},{"start":3019.395,"end":3035.475,"text":"委員黃國昌等提案。第43案第7目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助凍結1000萬元委員翁曉琳等提案。第44案科目同前凍結50萬元委員吳思耀等提案。"},{"start":3038.806,"end":3057.837,"text":"第45案至第63案分別為委員審法會等、委員林思明等、委員陳俊宇等、委員謝龍介等、委員鍾嘉斌等所提之主決議案。第46款第10項臺灣高等法院第64案第二目審判業務向下02辦理刑事案件業務凍結20%委員黃國昌等提案。"},{"start":3060.618,"end":3086.09,"text":"第65案坑木同錢凍結10%委員謝龍介等提案。第66案第二幕向下02辦理刑事案件業務中業務費之一般事務費凍結50萬元委員陳俊宇等提案。114年度財團法人法律扶助基金會預算提案。第一案至第四案分別為委員林思明等委員陳俊宇陳盈等分別所提之主決議案宣讀完畢。"},{"start":3089.943,"end":3117.999,"text":"好跟委員報告剛剛宣讀的提案當中第7案第7案的提案委員更正為莊瑞雄那審法會委員是連署人然後第31案30案30案提案委員是陳俊宇那麼審法會委員更正為"},{"start":3119.834,"end":3142.29,"text":"聯署人第31案提案委員更正為莊瑞雄,審判委員改列為聯署人。第34案提案委員更正為陳俊宇,審判委員改列為聯署人。好,那麼我們先進行"},{"start":3145.577,"end":3165.287,"text":"預算書及所有提案均已宣讀完畢,進行討論前先說明預算案的處理方式。依照委員會處理預算提案的慣例,稅入部分依來源別以向為單位,稅書部分依機關別以目為單位,分別依序進行審查。"},{"start":3167.281,"end":3186.227,"text":"各單位預算中於處理委員所提之爭三提案後其餘未涉及之預算部分均與照列有關正式別稅數預算隨同機關別審查結果調整預算提案經由整理後請分別參閱提案本及會整本來進行討論"},{"start":3188.188,"end":3210.434,"text":"另外,特別提醒機關稍後經討論決議修正之預算提案,請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後,送交主席臺並均列入公報記錄。審查預算過程中如有列行幕僚與首次答覆委員問題發言時,請先自行介紹職稱、姓名、必立公報人員記錄。"},{"start":3212.054,"end":3240.823,"text":"現在進行討論事項第一案繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分先處理稅入部分提案即兩案請參閱提案本集會診表稅入部分提案第一案及第二案依序進行處理那麼因為第一案跟第二案呢是主主決議主決議我看一下好"},{"start":3247.387,"end":3265.331,"text":"請翻開提案表的P2目前聯署人陳俊宇委員在場請問是否同意修正?有簽名了嗎?簽名了,那我們就照修正同意後通過第二案請看"},{"start":3268.224,"end":3276.359,"text":"稅務案第二案修正動議已經簽名提案委員聯署人也在場我們就照修正文字內容通過"},{"start":3278.94,"end":3299.185,"text":"稅務部分處理完畢,我們繼續處理稅出提案。處理前先做說明,依照慣例處理時,按照會審表所排列的提案順序,依序由提案委員先就提案內容進行說明之後,再由機關代表予以答覆,然後再整目一起處理做成決議。"},{"start":3301.496,"end":3326.829,"text":"那麼現在我們接著處理稅出請參閱提案本及會審表稅出部分提案依序進行討論那我們就請翻開到現在第一案第一案是簽案委員是黃國昌委員請提案委員說明第一案"},{"start":3328.206,"end":3347.146,"text":"我跟羅志強委員還有吳宗憲委員我們共同提出的第一案主要是在處理派員出國的計畫編列預算1028萬元在上一次執行的時候我們已經清楚的說明了"},{"start":3348.072,"end":3365.948,"text":"上一次來報告預算的是司法院的前副秘書長他來報告預算的時候跟司法法制委員會的委員說司法院在編列預算的時候採取的是臨機預算的精神"},{"start":3367.537,"end":3392.438,"text":"但是實際的內容完全不是臨機預算的精神完全是剪貼預算的精神為什麼我說是剪貼預算的精神在送交本院的預算書說明當中我們的司法院院長明年的出國計畫是要率員赴法國考察違憲審查制度但問題是"},{"start":3394.5,"end":3418.49,"text":"明年要去法國考察違憲審查制度那2024年也就是今年今年他們在去年的送來的預算書司法院院長要做什麼呢也是要去法國考察違憲審查制度那去年2023年司法院院長的出國考察計畫是什麼呢也是要去法國考察違憲審查制度"},{"start":3420.467,"end":3441.699,"text":"總而言之從2023年要去法國考察違憲審查制度到2024年要去法國考察違憲審查制度到明年又要去2025年又再寫去法國考察違憲審查制度只有兩種可能第一種可能是法國違憲審查制度太偉大了"},{"start":3442.239,"end":3471.859,"text":"而且他的變動情況非常的劇烈一定要每年都去如果沒有每一年去一趟法國去一趟巴黎走一下鄉瀉李瀉大道看一下羅浮宮本院的司法院院長沒有辦法精準的可以掌握我們法國的違憲審查制度這是第一種可能性第二種可能性司法院認為他們在編預算的時候編得再散漫"},{"start":3472.879,"end":3477.182,"text":"施法法制委員會都不會看"},{"start":3499.398,"end":3507.46,"text":"第二個不是只有司法院院長這樣啊司法院副院長也是一樣啊明年說要去加拿大今年"},{"start":3509.352,"end":3530.241,"text":"之前寫的也是要去加拿大去年寫的也是要加拿大所以從2023年2024年2025年副院長要去加拿大這造成我們司法院的出國考察計畫一大奇觀什麼奇觀呢就是我們的院長在編預算的時候一定要連續三年去"},{"start":3531.241,"end":3545.756,"text":"法國我們的副院長在出國的時候連續三年一定都要去加拿大那到底是法國跟加拿大非常非常的重要而法國跟加拿大的制度對於司法院目前"},{"start":3548.021,"end":3571.054,"text":"所在推動的制度改革又有什麼樣的重要性完全看不出來完全看不出來第三個問題是什麼第三個問題是不僅僅是預算書複製貼上甚至是直接掛羊頭賣狗肉為什麼說掛羊頭賣狗肉說要去法國最後也沒有去法國沒有去法國去了哪裡去了捷克"},{"start":3572.219,"end":3597.262,"text":"去了捷克那去捷克還要順便要經過奧地利沒有經過奧地利還不行九天的行程三天有公務其他六天就是要休息要交通要往返看完了去捷克憲法法院的考察報告我只能夠說空洞的程度令人嘆為觀止"},{"start":3599.523,"end":3601.846,"text":"連捷克憲法法院基本的運作規則"},{"start":3603.7,"end":3632.873,"text":"都沒有掌握我為什麼說連捷克憲法法院基本的運作規則都沒有掌握等一下羅志強委員會進一步的來加以補充做說明除了掛羊頭賣狗肉以外自己錢不夠編在其他計畫向下的他一樣可以挪來用只要奉何可變更就可以了那奉何可變更是奉誰何可呢奉司法院院長何可"},{"start":3633.573,"end":3650.285,"text":"那簡而言之就是司法院院長要去捷克這件事情他自己何可何可變跟其他計畫向下的經費全部拿來用因為當初跑去捷克憲法法院的一團總共6個人總共6個人掛羊頭賣狗肉的預算書讓我們開始懷疑啊我們這麼認真的看司法院寫的預算書第一個"},{"start":3662.045,"end":3678.759,"text":"看到複製貼上的內容覺得很離譜第二個理由是因為複製貼上也不會怎麼樣因為那個都是參考用的寫的東西跟實際要做的可以完全搭不上線那這樣子的一種"},{"start":3680.382,"end":3701.536,"text":"預算書編列的方式掛羊頭賣狗肉的執行方式甚至最後的成效讓很多納稅人在懷疑我們的司法院正副院長跟大法官到底是去觀光還是去考察到底是去觀光還是去考察那如果認為是考察"},{"start":3702.386,"end":3723.723,"text":"那考察最後具體的成效在哪裡我上次請教了來列席的司法院的副秘書長他也說不出來他也說不出來所以這個第一個案子一定尊潔支出啦這樣子的支出毫無意義毫無意義但我也沒有全砍1028萬我只砍了800萬"},{"start":3728.069,"end":3753.601,"text":"我只砍了800萬那這個案子我想我先做提案的說明到這裡那今天司法院有很多其他的案子那我如果人不在現場的話我也拜託了跟我一起共同提案的羅志強委員會來負責進行說明謝謝好那麼由於本案跨科目我們優先處理那接下來是不是有其他委員要接續來進行討論來請羅志強委員"},{"start":3758.103,"end":3770.68,"text":"我常在看有些美食節目說美食可以代表人的個性那如果是這樣的話我覺得司法院你們的院長的食物代表就是法國紅酒"},{"start":3772.011,"end":3800.259,"text":"那你們副院長的食物代表是加拿大龍蝦啦你們整個立法院的食物代表日本壽司你竟然連續三年院長這個要出國的計畫的項目科目可以一模一樣全部都是去法國考察然後副院長連續三年都一模一樣全部都是去加拿大考察那你整個司法院派員出國全部都是去日本考察"},{"start":3801.681,"end":3820.326,"text":"我覺得司法院如果你們這個司法院有放那個世界地圖的話你把世界地圖就留4個國家就好了中華民國、法國、加拿大跟日本要在司法院的考察世界當中全世界只剩下法國、加拿大跟日本嗎講白了啦"},{"start":3823.786,"end":3846.71,"text":"就偷懶別人行事嘛連編個預算書連編都懶得編直接複製貼上加預算叫大家怎麼審查這是一個問題一啦那問題二就是說剛國參委員也講到啦基本上你們掛羊頭賣狗肉然後跑到捷克去訪問去參訪"},{"start":3850.118,"end":3871.445,"text":"我贊成啦我覺得捷克是一個很值得參訪的一個國家他們的憲法法院運作有百年歷史是非常值得參考可是問題來了我在這邊可能想要先救教一下你們28月的報告裡面只有半頁是講所謂的未來展望就是要怎麼學習捷克"},{"start":3872.281,"end":3892.493,"text":"那你們整個的採訪這個參訪捷克得到最最重要的一句話叫做借鏡捷克憲法法院運作的方式我整本只看到這句話是精華中的精華要借鏡捷克憲法法院運作的方式我這要拜託我可能要先請我們的司法院這邊跟大家稍微說明一下"},{"start":3896.616,"end":3902.424,"text":"到底要怎麼樣去借鏡這個捷克憲法法院運作方式對我們的憲法法庭有什麼啟發?"},{"start":3904.605,"end":3905.946,"text":"請問其他委員有沒有要做詢問?"},{"start":3934.569,"end":3958.024,"text":"翁小林委員本席在第20案的部分其實有針對出國計畫提出意見認為也需要刪減不過因為項目的關係所以我現在就先將搭配著黃國昌委員這裡針對出國考察的案子一併講"},{"start":3960.05,"end":3978.303,"text":"就誠如剛剛黃國昌委員還有羅志強委員所說的其實司法院這幾年來是去法國、捷克、加拿大、日本去考察但考察回來之後到底我們學習到他們的憲法法院有何值得借鏡的地方"},{"start":3978.763,"end":4005.602,"text":"那麼這個以我們最近所提出的憲法訴訟法的修正案來說那麼其實訂定最低出席人數門檻那麼現在的這個最後通過的版本雖然是民眾黨的版本但是呢就是以參考捷克的模式為主那麼即便是法國或者是日本他們也都有很清楚的這個最低出席這個參與評議的"},{"start":4008.327,"end":4027.105,"text":"憲法法庭法官的人數還有提高作成判決的同意的人數。那麼就這個部分來講那麼到底我們的司法院院長和大法官們去這些國家考察"},{"start":4028.157,"end":4054.666,"text":"那考察出來之後好像從結果來看你們也沒有學習到人家的長處反而在我們法案通過之後呢又發表了一個新聞稿說我們這次的法案通過是深表遺憾我都不知道說司法院在深表遺憾什麼這代表說你們其實出國考察你們根本沒有看到人家是怎麼運作的那麼這因此呢我基本上我也支持黃國昌委員這個江"},{"start":4058.845,"end":4079.742,"text":"這次的這個預算出國出國考察的預算要大幅刪減那我在我後面的20案的部分其實也有他們其實去考察的地方其實有太多重複性那之後再講所以就這個地方來說待會要請副秘書長要清楚說明你們到底是去考察了什麼接近了什麼地方"},{"start":4082.335,"end":4103.841,"text":"主席,我請他們順便補充回答我的問題,大家回應的時候。好,那等一下我先做一個宣告。那麼因為剛剛我們的那個稅出的預算提案已經通過,那麼跟該案有關的機關代表,如果另有要供可以先行離席。好,謝謝,請繼續。因為我剛剛有提一個問題,就是到底這個捷克的這個憲法法院,"},{"start":4105.442,"end":4121.201,"text":"我們大法官我們的司法院要怎麼借鏡希望你們幫我們回答一下既然花那麼多錢去考察但也同時請我們的司法院的代表回答我三個問題捷克的憲法法院大法官有幾個人"},{"start":4122.813,"end":4123.794,"text":"接下來請莊瑞雄委員提出詢問"},{"start":4143.971,"end":4159.668,"text":"好 謝謝主席還有在場的委員我們司法院的代表在我看今天大家討論這個問題也非常好啦但是最主要的一個目標就是說你們司法院被鎖定了你們就是盧主啦那今天為什麼提了這麼多案"},{"start":4161.514,"end":4172.555,"text":"很簡單啊就是其實它的核心問題我在看是要來掩飾說為什麼在國會在行使大法官同意權的時候把整個未來的憲法法庭給癱瘓掉"},{"start":4174.073,"end":4202.388,"text":"那國人當然會震驚嘛那震驚以後在立法院當然要找一些理由來要你們要你們好好的做說明嘛其實我看跟整個預算裡面關聯性到底大不大司法院到底到底要不要提出非常專業的一個說明我看這個司法院沒辦法講清楚他不容易講清楚任何一個國家的一個憲法法庭他的一個設計裡面他的核心價值我看成每一個國家司法制度的一個"},{"start":4203.686,"end":4205.288,"text":"我反而會認為司法院以後廣邀英雄帖"},{"start":4218.314,"end":4222.695,"text":"去邀請全世界各國的憲法法庭到臺灣來好好考察一下說你看我們臺灣好厲害我們臺灣的國會裡面我們有辦法把整個憲法法庭他那個整個這個評議的人數10個把他動一個最低的一個門檻但是呢我們在國會行駛的時候都把他砍掉讓他你讓最低門檻你連評議的一個門檻你都達不到重點在這個地方所以"},{"start":4243.94,"end":4267.034,"text":"司法院我覺得特別要去注意啦,要去注意的地方出國的考察這些預算書裡面有時候啊你花了錢以後啊大家會認為說是公帑到底有沒有花在刀口上啊不然你說這個司法院去一趟出國以後考察寫了28月的報告這我看28月的報告很多欸"},{"start":4272.228,"end":4278.629,"text":"立法院裏面我們的報告,報告個頭啊,誰跟你報告。立法院是,你們司法院是管法。"},{"start":4280.168,"end":4305.884,"text":"一法審判我們立法院是立法那其實我看起來立法院才是法律無邊所以常常會要求別人標準是很高那我們自己實在是這個不堪聞問但是這九天裡面的行程那到底是一個行程裡面九天行程裡面應該去解釋一下扣掉飛機是多少到什麼地方去到底他的合理性只剩下三天的時候到底通不通"},{"start":4307.245,"end":4329.436,"text":"這個其實可以好好去做一個說明否則派員出國的計畫行之有年司法院的這麼多的法官或者司法院我們這麼多高官裡面要制定整個司法制度參考別人整個訴訟制度其實這幾年如果在我看來"},{"start":4331.414,"end":4348.156,"text":"我從過去在當學生到現在,我看副院長很清楚啊,大家以前都看的是說這個侍送制度如何去改革。任何人,哪一個政黨在執政的時候啊,最受過病的,這個民眾信任度最低的其實就是司法。"},{"start":4348.797,"end":4361.418,"text":"但可是我對這個數字我常常跟其他人看法會不一樣司法跟其他人就不一樣跟其他的單位不一樣你行政部門你說我民調非常高或者首長民調會非常高"},{"start":4362.369,"end":4388.624,"text":"他很簡單啊,他常常有一個支出裡面有一個新興的一個計畫老百姓會滿意啊我辦個活動老百姓會有幸福的一個感覺啊可是司法院讓人幸福的感覺不容易啊我跟陳俊宇來打個官司兩個人都不會覺得幸福啊一個判決下來搞不好各方對司法院多所責難啊陳俊宇委員的訴訟上的一個請求你沒有達到他的目標他出來罵死你司法院"},{"start":4390.527,"end":4405.725,"text":"我這個被告的人一個判決下來我也得不到滿足然後一般民眾因為我們兩個去鼓譟以後你那個整個司法的公信力整個司法的對民眾的喜愛性那跟一般機關本來會有所不同"},{"start":4406.286,"end":4418.241,"text":"可是呢,立法院在審酌的時候沒有人會管理這些他看的就是,欸,來我就是要好好叼你我前面做出一個決定了,立法部分我社會對我有所責難了我就必須要來轉移焦點到你司法院今天司法院你們是擄主你們還不知道"},{"start":4422.606,"end":4430.373,"text":"我期待等一下司法院好好把這個部分其實有編的預算好好做說明也還好啦但是如果說要去我們本院的委員去要求對你們做哪一個國家的憲法的制度他應該是如何如何他是幾人怎麼樣確實你們也可以好好去做一個補充上的一個說明但是這種制度"},{"start":4448.59,"end":4460.161,"text":"你很難去講說誰是好誰是壞乾脆去講說我們根本就不需要憲法法庭美國也沒有憲法法庭乾脆把這個職權去修個把整個法制把它給修掉全部轉給最高法院就好了違憲的審查該哪一個機關這個都涉及到根本的一個問題但是今天整個預算"},{"start":4470.811,"end":4485.937,"text":"到底會不會是像這個黃國昌委員講的裡面司法院的預算是隨便去做寫錢拿到手以後想去哪裡就想去哪裡把立法院當成一個橡皮圖章這個部分是很嚴厲的指控確實也該好好的來說明一下以上好那如果沒有其他委員的詢問我們就請針對本案請司法院機關代表說明"},{"start":4495.576,"end":4513.341,"text":"主席還有各位委員早安我是司法院副秘書長王梅英針對委員以上的就教的問題我簡要回答就是說其實在大法官出國考察我們的預算書編列之後常常會碰到情勢變更"},{"start":4514.321,"end":4533.369,"text":"因為就是大法官他會去參訪的那個機構常常是一個國家就是那個成績比較高的像是那個憲法法院那所以呢就是以前也有就是說都已經全部談好了那個之後呢那後來飛機票也買好了就後來就因為特殊原因所以就被婉拒了那在112年呢雖然說當時是編列到法國"},{"start":4538.051,"end":4554.529,"text":"但是當時我們受到了捷克他們憲法法院的那個邀訪那這個機會事實上是很不容易的這等於是突破外交上一個很大那個成就所以當年呢因為有這樣子的一個背景"},{"start":4555.109,"end":4568.395,"text":"所以就是本來是寫說到那個法國參訪就改到了那個捷克去那這是一個那個原因這是真的是因為是那個情勢變更那原來呢就是說在112年的時候已經預計去法國了嗎所以說在113年才會"},{"start":4572.597,"end":4591.921,"text":"一百一十二年沒有去程所以說才會在一百一十三年繼續編法國那在法國呢就是也確實也去了那個歐洲人權法院還有他們很多的相關的這個憲政機關那也有去了那個比利時的那個憲法法院這個是沒有編列那同時也去那個也去了"},{"start":4592.341,"end":4605.545,"text":"那之所以114年還會在編那是因為113年到了法國之後呢要考察那個憲法委員會113年因故就是沒有去程所以說才會繼續在114年編列那我想這個是一點就是說"},{"start":4608.746,"end":4610.467,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度"},{"start":4626.534,"end":4638.005,"text":"去捷克是到歐洲而且是到中路所以呢9天的行程其實真正扣掉9天扣掉那個行程就是說飛機跟內陸往返真正去參訪時間是5天那這5天裡面呢有3天"},{"start":4643.57,"end":4672.896,"text":"二十到二十二號他是上午跟下午事實上是上午跟下午六個半天天天都是滿檔的那個行程那到了23號這一天呢原來也是有排行程的後來是因為碰到外力因素介入了之後所以說臨時取消那這個是我過去參訪常會碰到那個狀況這個是一個前提背景那另外我想就是說有關於那個一個那個立法的一個制度"},{"start":4673.957,"end":4694.033,"text":"這個因為要討論的非常多今天是因為是預算巡打所以在這裡沒有辦法去談太多那我想只能談一個大方向就是說我們在捷克看了什麼就是說或者是說各國他們有關於這個那個憲法法庭他們是怎麼設計的就是一個大方向如果說他們那個憲法審查呢"},{"start":4695.114,"end":4713.304,"text":"他們在那個他們憲法審查職權的那個行使是採就是說判決門檻採最低人數這樣子規定的時候通常他們都會搭配相對的那個配套措施像是說那個有指定那個代理有指定代理"},{"start":4714.024,"end":4739.012,"text":"或者是說那個德國他們就有甚至一庭他們有分兩個庭一庭的人就是說臨時出缺的時候他是到另一庭去指定那一庭那個法官過來這邊那個代理的那或者呢就是說上那個也有就是就是採那個終生那個終生值的這種那個配套那我要談的不是說我們要學他們而是說那個制度是一個有機的他是環環相扣的"},{"start":4740.572,"end":4761.56,"text":"那像就是到捷克我們只能講一個那個大方向像他們有一個配套措施就是說如果說總統提名大法官之後呢那參議院他沒有在60天之內就投票一決的話他為了讓就是說他不要空窗期就是會產生一個空窗期所以他們就會就是說"},{"start":4762.78,"end":4775.086,"text":"提名之後60天還沒有投票的話就視為同意任命也有這樣子的配套措施就是讓那個憲法法庭的運作盡量避免他就是說不要產生那個閒置那當然就是說委員所講的沒錯捷克他的那個設計是跟我們新通過那個法律是一樣的是15個人法定人數是15個人那出席門檻是10個違憲審查是那個9個那但是"},{"start":4788.852,"end":4809.635,"text":"我想就是說我們有時候看到這個數字有時候也要去看就是說那怎麼樣的一個配套措施就是大家就是盡量避免就是說這個憲法法庭他會陷入就是說避免他就是說因為這個人數不到所以沒有辦法運作那我想以上那個簡單的那個詢答我看看我們書記聽那個有沒有什麼補充"},{"start":4813.411,"end":4839.509,"text":"來,書記廳有沒有補充?來,先補充,然後再撞委員好不好?是,主席、各位委員。我是憲法法庭書記廳廳長楊浩青。那補充剛剛我們副秘書長針對委員詢答的部分,然後這邊再做一個補充說明喔。那有關於剛剛委員垂詢,有關於本院院長率同大法官一行人到捷克考察,針對捷克憲法法院的運作到底在實際上考察,"},{"start":4839.989,"end":4863.1,"text":"然後回在這個實際上我們得到了什麼樣的一個借鏡的一個心得那覺得說在報告裡面可能講的不夠清楚那這邊我來做一個補充說明那首先其實我們在報告裡面有提到捷克縣法院他們跟我們一樣都會有設置一個審查庭的制度不過捷克縣法院因為他們是一個院長兩個副院長那他們就沒有排在審查庭他們是排四個審查庭來負責"},{"start":4866.061,"end":4891.457,"text":"那其實跟我國的人數一樣的情況之下以4個審查庭來運作那如何能夠運作的有效率這個當時我們也是有在我們這個考察的範圍內那第二個部分是在法院的硬體的部分我們在裡面有介紹有關於捷克憲法法院的建築跟他相關的設計那因為其實司法院其實之前一直有在規劃有關於憲法法庭是不是要這個"},{"start":4893.078,"end":4899.362,"text":"此外我們在報告裏面有跟德捷克憲法法院交流在COVID-19的疫情衝擊下那兩個國家的憲法法庭是憲法法院是如何的能夠維持正常運作"},{"start":4917.354,"end":4942.534,"text":"此外他們也有提供他們針對COVID-19相關的一些憲法訴訟他們的判決提出了一些他們的看法那這些我想基本上是我們有初步都有記載在這個報告內容那當然在這邊要跟主席跟委員特別報告的是院長跟大法官他們出國考察主要是我們的憲訴法畢竟是一個新的制度那我們多多吸取各國不同的違憲審查的經驗"},{"start":4944.395,"end":4970.589,"text":"其實對我們國家違憲審查的制度是有幫助的那院長層級的出訪其實他最重要的是建立司法高層的一個日後的一個交流合作機制那以這一次的出訪來說因為眾所周知捷克跟我國這幾年在各方面的合作友好程度都有相對應的提升那這一次捷克他們主動邀訪我們所以我們在原本的預算科目裡面去進行預算的那個地點去進行變更"},{"start":4973.45,"end":4990.576,"text":"然後因為對方邀訪那我們覺得這也是一個很有價值的所以我們就過去參訪然後後來傑克辛拉法院也回訪了我國就在今年的5月由現任的傑克辛拉法院院長率領他們一位副院長跟一位大法官他們的秘書長還有國際交流處處長總共五個人來台灣訪問"},{"start":4994.217,"end":5009.313,"text":"跟國務院報告這個應該是我們司法院有史以來現任的憲法法院的層級最高的這個訪團因為過去有很多的政治因素造成了其實有些國家的首長可能是卸任以後才會來我們台灣訪問"},{"start":5012.957,"end":5023.367,"text":"這個現任的訪團而且是正式的官方訪團其實對兩個國家建立日後的長久司法合作是有很重要的意義所以在這邊跟委員特別報告就是說當然其實我們日後也會繼續汲取其他國家的交流經驗就像剛剛我們副秘書長所報告的就是說回到羅委員剛剛所詢問的問題就是"},{"start":5035.518,"end":5063.039,"text":"關於門檻人數還有表決人數這個部分剛剛蜂蜜都有回答過事實上其實我們想要一併回答的就是說司法院當然不是說跟一個國家合作我們就一定覺得他的制度我們要引進其實我們當然是會參考很多國家的制度然後符合我們國情做一個最適當的選擇那以剛剛捷克來說他們在捷克的行政法院法裡面的配套制度就如同蜂蜜所報告的他會有一個避免"},{"start":5063.759,"end":5087.52,"text":"因為這個大官人數因為統一權的行使權缺過久他有一個配套措施那所以這也是司法院在過去強調說其實我們還是希望說在考慮最低出席門檻跟表決的門檻的時候能夠一併考慮到說那缺額的時候有沒有一個比較有效率的一個補足人數的方式讓憲法法庭能夠正常運作那以上補充謝謝"},{"start":5089.141,"end":5105.516,"text":"好,謝謝,剛剛因為專委員有先舉手,那羅委員再過來是羅委員。那麼謝謝金官代表的說明關於出國行程的變動的情況,常因為情勢變更,受到其他國家,或者是有壓力或是提高待遇的影響有所差別。那麼請專委員。謝謝周委員。"},{"start":5108.55,"end":5118.424,"text":"我剛我先把它回想一下我剛對黃國昌、羅志強或者翁委員的想法我現在改變了我認為他們倒是蠻善意"},{"start":5120.646,"end":5148.454,"text":"他們要你們去看這個捷克我看捷克憲法的規定裏面他是有很多很多很深奧的設計在裏面你像譬如說剛羅將委員或黃國昌委員要你們把捷克你們去參訪以後他們整個的設計憲法法庭的設計多去做一個瞭解其實也很好你說捷克憲法法庭裏面他如果說這個"},{"start":5150.935,"end":5178.535,"text":"他們把整個大法官的人選送到他們的國會裡面去那國會裡面不作為是60天他就自然就生效了那這個制度你說叫台灣來做也不可能嘛這也不可能嘛我看德國聯邦憲法法院他在把他後來德國他們去做一個法律的一個修訂你連大法官的人數甚至大法官的年齡"},{"start":5180.858,"end":5201.949,"text":"這一些來看的話,都還有任期。這一些他們自己都把整個基本法去做一個修訂。把他提高到這個是法院裡面內部的一個程序的一個自主。這個都已經納入他們基本法的一個保障。納入他們基本法的一個保障。那跟台灣當然國情會不一樣。"},{"start":5203.237,"end":5227.695,"text":"台灣現在司法院你們只是離開立法院你們很大而已啊到了立法院裡面你們會受到我們立法院尤其藍白連鎖把你們給摧殘了難道你們會不知道你們會受到這樣的一個待遇嗎可是呢整個憲法法庭的一個設計的一個本身呢這個確實是確實是很嚴肅的一個問題啦"},{"start":5233.199,"end":5255.433,"text":"應該聽聽說司法院對於你就像德國他們本來受到基本法保障然後他們去擔心說整個司法的一個獨立尤其是憲法法庭他擔心去遭到遭到他們極右派的政黨那可能會壯大到在國會裡面他有辦法去阻擋"},{"start":5256.67,"end":5281.97,"text":"他們整個法官的一個任命然後導致他們整個憲法法庭癱瘓的一個風險這個反而他們整個國家裡面有去預作這樣的一個防範跟法制的一個修訂反而我們的憲法或者我們現在的憲法法庭裡面我們就少了一個設計啊少了一個設計就是說發生像台灣現在目前這樣"},{"start":5283.393,"end":5309.668,"text":"你新的訴訟憲法訴訟程序法修訂新法出來以後法庭門檻幫你做一個提高然後你現在整個憲法法庭要運作的你沒有辦法達到達到他的這個門檻在這一種空窗期的時候空窗期的時候該如何那我倒是很想聽聽這個部分就是說"},{"start":5312.282,"end":5337.527,"text":"還沒有新的還沒有產生以前原來的憲法法庭哪一個國家真的完全放任他讓他癱瘓掉然後全部都不作為你以現在憲法法庭系屬在憲法法庭裡面的這一個120件裡面的解釋案那你叫這些人要怎樣去接打去走要怎樣那憲法法庭的法官"},{"start":5338.632,"end":5360.262,"text":"第一,他看到新法出來了,他要怎麼審?第二,因為新法出來了,然後呢,去提出釋憲的人,這些民眾,他怎麼辦?任何一個機關,你說五院憲政機關加總統府最高,它也是一個憲政機關,那這一些機關之間,"},{"start":5364.69,"end":5388.229,"text":"如果說今天立法院把行政院送過來的預算我們全部都把它不理它預算法有這樣的一個設計你除了新增的計畫或者說你被授權的支出那這些新增的計畫那這些你不能去動因為沒有國會的同意可是呢我們還有一個機關不關門就是馬照跑"},{"start":5393.226,"end":5393.888,"text":"五兆跳哪怕誰哪一個政黨他做大到國會國會裡面他可以完全"},{"start":5401.943,"end":5426.811,"text":"把各個機關把它給貪換掉但是法律有的設計就是經過上一個年度經過授權的你可以照樣讓這個國家去運作就是說機關它是可以不用關門的它的核心問題在哪裡核心價值在什麼地方核心價值就是說你立法院是憲政機關你行政院也是憲政機關立法院你是不能去貪換整個行政部門的"},{"start":5427.751,"end":5440.181,"text":"如果這個價值到底是通的同樣的司法院也是一個憲政機關那司法院這個憲政機關可不可以因為國會有人多數你去把它癱瘓掉這個是核心的問題癱瘓掉是小事"},{"start":5445.809,"end":5463.694,"text":"攤換掉是小事可是對於人民的影響衝擊那是大事為什麼因為司法院本身身為一個憲政機關如果你自己本身沒有一套機制那到最後讓整個憲法法庭因為國會同意權的行使你自己毫無辦法讓你束手無策那就代表說你司法院你也沒有盡責啊"},{"start":5473.348,"end":5482.585,"text":"你司法院也沒有忠誠的履行國家科與你你的憲政機關的一個義務啊那司法院你身為一個忠誠的"},{"start":5483.905,"end":5505.244,"text":"一個憲政機關看起來這也不對啊看起來這也不對啊所以我反而會覺得說這120件裡面最近立法院大家在討論或者外面媒體在討論不知道怎麼辦有人要釋憲在我看法完全都不要釋憲這120件裡面大法官會議做出那麼多號的一個解釋以前你說你說申請釋憲"},{"start":5507.662,"end":5531.341,"text":"司法院可以釋憲 立法院可以釋憲 最高法院可以釋憲 西洋也可以釋憲 當法官就幫你做出來啊你各級審的法院你只要碰到說法律的適用到底有沒有違背憲法的時候 你可以裁定停止你也可以來 法律也沒有規定啊 法律也沒有規定啊門口就開啦 大門就開啦 所以我反而會覺得說司法院與其你們到這邊都會被蹂躪了 你就大膽的"},{"start":5538.24,"end":5545.082,"text":"因為全部都是法律人哪有這麼多法律人到立法院來碰到這些選票選出來的有幾票?你們就孬了聳了不對這不對我認為這不對五院啊五院啊都是憲政機關都是憲政機關但是因為涉及到預算名子名高立法院幫人民把關這是對的可是啊"},{"start":5567.911,"end":5586.594,"text":"這個漫無事證的,立法院本來問證就是這樣子,立法院問證要有聲量的問題嘛,所以講話要稍微誇張一點,我這邊沒有人看,所以我在這邊講話,你看我們比較平和的坐在這邊,這個立法院我看起來就是他最優秀啊,他今天最沒有鏡頭的就是陳俊宇啊。"},{"start":5587.791,"end":5608.649,"text":"為什麼?為大家把關很仔細再看。那我們就多點口水,就有人會報導。這也不好。這也不好。我反而覺得說這些提案裡面,到司法院可以好好去想一想啦。可以去好好去想一想啦。那這些提案啦,在我看來,這個都是唯唯舊招啦。這是唯唯舊招啦。闖禍了嘛。"},{"start":5614.986,"end":5630.603,"text":"先把法庭癱瘓掉了嘛老百姓不滿了嘛那當然要提一些案把你們給徹底把你們給不要說汙名化了就把你們刻意去做一個放大但是涉及到名字我只是這些理由我不介紹而已喔"},{"start":5631.567,"end":5655.065,"text":"但是這些預算該怎麼樣去尊潔支出國會的一個把關這是對的喔以上好謝謝莊委員的寶貴意見那主席台這邊先做一個說明因為剛剛主席台這邊接到詢問為什麼剛剛做個宣告准與臺北地方法院機關代表先行離席那說明一下因為呢這個跟他們機關有關的兩個稅促提案已經處理過了"},{"start":5657.967,"end":5678.842,"text":"第二個因為今天臺北地院10點的時候有一個重要的事情回去要做處理我相信其實不只臺北地院的機關代表我們剛剛也看到黃委員也匆匆離開把任務交付給我們羅委員所以我們想這個事情因為有人詢問所以主席還是要做個說明謝謝接下來請羅委員再翁委員"},{"start":5682.674,"end":5703.98,"text":"我第一個先對主席這個裁定保持保留意見因為審到司法院的相關的那個業務的時候我覺得司法院出席人員應該還是要在這是對立法院最基本的尊重當然主席要放棄這個尊重要致見立法院那我也沒辦法因為你是主席我也拿你沒轍所以我還是要保留一個抗議"},{"start":5705.302,"end":5721.305,"text":"但是我要跟大家特別問我還要再去問一下我非常認同剛剛專業選委員講說這捷克憲法法院他的聲傲的設計然後我們剛好藉此來釐清那我非常謝謝司法院已經非常清楚澄清幾件事情第一個"},{"start":5722.779,"end":5750.735,"text":"捷克的憲法法院大法官他們就是成員15個人跟我們中華民國一模一樣而捷克他規定的所謂的審查的最低出席人數就是10個人跟這次憲訴法的規定一模一樣而他的違憲法律違憲的所謂的通過的門檻最低門檻也是9個人跟憲訴法也一模一樣"},{"start":5752.199,"end":5774.202,"text":"第一點啊 民進黨不要再扯了啦 什麼叫違憲 捷克上我們今天司法院去考察得到結論要借進捷克的憲法法院的結論 啊捷克憲法法院已經100年歷史了 哇原來捷克憲法法院是違背憲政民主原理 已經100年啦"},{"start":5775.593,"end":5803.128,"text":"值得我們來去借鏡啊我聽了半天我也非常謝謝司法院努力的在找洞講了一件事啊就是說他們有一個所謂防癱瘓的規定齁60天內名單提出60天內這個必須要行使同意權我想請教一下必須要行使同意權意思是我非得要投下同意票不可嗎"},{"start":5804.813,"end":5807.54,"text":"是不是?請問司法院是不是?"},{"start":5809.184,"end":5835.892,"text":"是嗎?沒關係,我這個問法我就把它接著,我只要這個答案,很簡單的答案嘛,是不是?那等一下一位羅委員,還有莊委員要表示意見。這一等要請投同意票啊,不能投不同意票啊。等一下那個羅委員,那我們是不是請機關代表,就剛剛莊委員跟羅委員的陳述,那是不是翁委員同意先。沒關係啊,我不用問了,沒關係。主席要在那邊亂我也沒關係啊,我不問啦,總可以吧。我不問可以了吧。沒關係啊,我不要問了嘛。"},{"start":5838.7,"end":5855.275,"text":"我不問了嘛!可以啊我不問啦!我不問啦!我就遵照你的旨意不問可以吧!可不可以!可不可以!你高興就好!我要跟各位說!我要跟各位說!我們要代理讓我們渥小林委員問!莫名其妙嘛!你跟我講60天內他必須要行使同意權"},{"start":5864.841,"end":5891.708,"text":"可以不同意阿,同意權其實只有同意跟不同意兩種而且今天照捷克的部分像德國法院名單還是用內閣制還是由國會提的當然就像專委員講的阿有很多不一樣的地方我要講什麼我就謝謝專委員阿為什麼你們今天如果提出配套來跟我講說60天內國會要進行人事同意權審查我都是想連述阿"},{"start":5893.154,"end":5914.062,"text":"可以配套我沒有反對配套啊但是今天回到今天根本上憲法法院我跟各位說講什麼我先講兩件事啊第一個不要跟我講什麼這個十個人三分之二出席叫癱瘓憲法法院你不要鬧了不要鬧了大法官死刑都要求一字決"},{"start":5922.199,"end":5935.207,"text":"才要求三分之二出席大法官這麼玻璃心莫名其妙嘛司法院還對限訴法通過表示遺憾你就做政治表態了那麼玻璃心大法官為什麼要求憲法死刑要以自決每個憲法判決都是攸關中華民國攸關國家發展幾十年欸"},{"start":5948.496,"end":5967.247,"text":"為什麼今天捷克的憲法法院要規定所謂的10人出席的所謂的相對的高多數的門檻為什麼規定9人投同意票的門檻就是因為知道捷克捷克就知道法院基本上法院基本上在做憲法判決的時候你就是務必要謹慎嘛"},{"start":5975.202,"end":5997.307,"text":"你輕易的宣告立法院的法律就是違憲難道不需要多一點的所謂的門檻嗎?這第一個事情我要講第一個事情要講我剛才請問委員去查捷克的憲法法院的提名國會扮演的角色是什麼?國會推薦權在哪裡?你要配套一起配套進去"},{"start":5998.769,"end":6025.254,"text":"捷克是像我們現在大法官是由總統獨斷提名嗎?也一起研究看看啊。一併研究看看啊。學也不要學半套。這第一個,捷克當然不是至高至理啦。不能說捷克用了我們就非用不可。但捷克就是你們今天去考察一個例子,所以今天才用捷克例子跟你講。這第一個,其他國家也有高門檻,沒錯吧。也有三分之二的門檻的嘛。不是只有捷克而已啊。"},{"start":6026.926,"end":6048.468,"text":"還有很多國家也是採所謂的三分之二的門檻阿結果他們通通都違憲所以當然不是說其他我認同莊委員講的不是每個別的國家這樣做我們國家就要這麼做不是不是每個國家確實有不同的國境我認同這一件事情但是你說就你來講第一個國際歷史上不是沒有那憑什麼說我們台灣做就是違憲"},{"start":6049.656,"end":6070.367,"text":"第二個我又跟我講大法官自己都講到一字訣憑什麼三分之二就要違憲第三個我要講真正關鍵在哪裡癱瘓癱瘓什麼今天以民進黨今天提出的名單你只要有一個名單你不要說今天違律侍從再多一個就好七個再多一個就好"},{"start":6071.721,"end":6087.093,"text":"跟在野黨商量不管是你把那個姚立民換掉還是把廖福特換掉你換一個換一個過去在很多的法學上不是唯律適從的你知道結果是什麼嗎?結果是什麼?結果就是通過啦兩個就過啦為什麼?因為劉靜儀就過啦但是被民進黨砍啦"},{"start":6107.054,"end":6129.284,"text":"你民進黨先癱瘓了一個還跟我講說大法官不過就要癱瘓那我跟你講照這個邏輯下立法院根本不要有同意權然後同意權幹什麼立法院只要否決大法官就要癱瘓大法官同意權幹什麼要啊去敬高全世界國家大法官任何只要採取國會同意權的例子的國家全部都滾蛋啦"},{"start":6131.943,"end":6159.969,"text":"沒有 我要講完啦我們的莊委員 我要講完啦很簡單嘛為什麼要立法院同意我看到很多大法官說大法官不用顧民意啊笑死人了大法官為什麼不用顧民意立法院同意立法院就是民意代表為什麼要立法院同意就是你的大法官必須要兼顧民意民意不是唯一指標但民意是重要指標"},{"start":6162.159,"end":6189.739,"text":"那如果民進黨多數的時候沒辦法多數形成的民意就是支持民進黨所以總統提名國會過沒話講但現在國會的多數民意不是民進黨的時候這個賴清德是連跟立法院商量都不用商量欸他不用去他40%不用去問60%的意見欸他直接提了名單之後然後你跟我講說沒通過叫癱瘓就有空窗期那我跟各位講民進黨就先癱瘓了一個啊"},{"start":6190.987,"end":6201.617,"text":"民進黨全體打臉賴清德那民進黨是不是要貪50%的貪換責任因為剩下還有一個兩個就十個就到了就滿了就沒有你的貪換問題沒有說你的貪換問題再往第四點推貪換什麼啊賴清德還可以繼續提名兩個月內還繼續提名"},{"start":6210,"end":6227.53,"text":"他提名完以後他只要不像這樣這次亂搞一定要搞綠意大法官不要設定大法官資格像民進黨今天講的阿不可以罵民進黨阿罵民進黨劉靜怡就給我滾蛋阿你不要設這個大法官的不准罵民進黨積極資格以下次提名好好提名兩個有這麼難過嗎"},{"start":6232.11,"end":6242.693,"text":"他提七個再過兩個有這麼難過嗎?你認真提名就兩個有那麼難過嗎?劉靜怡就差一點過了啊!劉靜怡就差一點過了啊!所以我跟你講我今天剛剛去看司法院這樣回答說真的我都覺得我黃國昌三八百萬客氣了還在那邊找辯解找藉口我講的哪一條不是道理?"},{"start":6263.015,"end":6284.856,"text":"我沒有說你一定要學捷克喔我先跟你講喔我承認捷克我沒有完全了解我沒有完全了解但至少三樣共識清清楚楚捷克就15人捷克的出席門檻就10個人捷克違憲審查門檻就9個人跟我們憲法訴訟法一模一樣現在賴清德說要釋憲了我就等著看等著看"},{"start":6288.749,"end":6308.934,"text":"你再宣布違憲看看阿我知道你們會宣布違憲阿我知道幫你們預言阿大法官今天淪落到邊緣是民進黨的側翼跟附庸嗎死刑民家黨綱你也要去護國會改革民進黨20年的主張結果你們今天大法官為了今天的民進黨通通宣布違憲大法官有任何公信力"},{"start":6313.615,"end":6326.761,"text":"今天不過好好審查也沒有廢掉大法官就是跟你講 你們一定要好好提名人不要一天到晚提這些黨議大法官再多提兩個非黨議大法官15個兩個非黨議大法官有那麼難嗎800萬啊 就減吧"},{"start":6335.017,"end":6351.826,"text":"那個主席在那邊跟委員會說明我們原則上預算審查我們尊重每位委員的發言權那委員只要提出我主席這邊知道你要發言我會按照這個順序讓大家充分的發言那機關代表如果要答覆那請"},{"start":6353.287,"end":6375.265,"text":"跟主席徵得發言權後再進行答覆當然委員在闡述意見的時候會常常有一些問句這些問句因為前面有委員在詢問在前後面有委員等待詢問機關代表可以先做個筆記我們待會主席指派的時候再由機關代表來進行一併說明接下來請翁委員"},{"start":6376.837,"end":6396.295,"text":"好 是 謝謝主席我就把剛剛羅委員沒有問完的問題我再請教這個副秘書長請問捷克的這個相關的法律是他們如果說國會沒有在60天參議院如果在60天之內沒有進行表決然後就視為同意對不對"},{"start":6403.197,"end":6408.019,"text":"所以我有進行表決,否決了呢?那這樣情況還構成癱瘓嗎?請副秘書長回答我可以請他先回答嗎?因為後面還有陳委員要詢問那您要針對這個部分因為你們互含互得太多今天我委員又請教你可不可以請教"},{"start":6430.578,"end":6438.2,"text":"我要跟...請尊重委員...請尊重主席!主席現在在跟委員說明因為有...休息!謝謝你喔!莫名其妙!對啊你大了你要休息就休息啊!"},{"start":6454.742,"end":6480.747,"text":"今天我們是依序讓大家充分發言完全讓大家充分講話你少來這一套啦我跟你講無所謂啊無所謂啊就一個簡單的問題然後在那邊卡半天就一個簡單問題卡半天我佩服你啦尊重主席"},{"start":6481.351,"end":6498.6,"text":"我尊重你勒,你有尊重我們今天委員審案的所謂的提問嗎?你沒有尊重,我尊重你什麼主席?我幹嘛?我理你啊?你是誰啊?你是我老闆啊?你賴清德啊?你總統啊?你偉大啊?你厲害啊?對啊?憑什麼?你知道誰在後面講話?你講什麼話?我們司法法制委員會輪你講話"},{"start":6512.008,"end":6536.221,"text":"怎麼樣?怎麼樣?你偉大啦!隨便你啊!會咬人的林淑芬我好怕你喔!不要來咬我!好會咬人啊!最會咬人的林淑芬!佩服你啦!我告訴你我這輩子在路上只被瘋狗咬過!我不想被人咬喔!我不想被人咬喔!"},{"start":6537.486,"end":6550.343,"text":"啊?什麼要人身攻擊?我講你咬人是事實吧?我有講錯嗎?我有講錯嗎?我講錯了嗎?你咬人不是事實?你咬人不是事實?早點走啦!"},{"start":6552.629,"end":6558.111,"text":"來咬人啊!你們打人抓人我不能夠反擊咬人啊!"},{"start":6573.438,"end":6590.902,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會11"},{"start":6596.903,"end":6607.231,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查司法院第12屆第2會期司法院及法制委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次全體委員會第22次"},{"start":6622.283,"end":6630.249,"text":"只要林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人"},{"start":6646.722,"end":6646.782,"text":"委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":6661.699,"end":6665.4,"text":"我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強我承認我破為曾志強"},{"start":6688.285,"end":6709.394,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":6709.394,"end":6710.395,"text":"林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人林淑芬會咬人"},{"start":6734.768,"end":6748.091,"text":"我本來就不如陳玉珍啊!我就不如陳玉珍啊!陳玉珍就是國民黨戰將啊!國民黨沒有人會咬人啊!你是民進黨的戰將,咬人戰將啊!咬一臉啊!你最會咬人啊!沒有啦,我講的不對,但你咬人最對啦!你咬人最偉大!"},{"start":6758.613,"end":6758.633,"text":"拜託!"},{"start":6781.374,"end":6783.195,"text":"你不要聽莊瑞雄的話,你繼續講"},{"start":6809.738,"end":6824.116,"text":"我知道你繼續說啊我知道繼續說啊你講一整天給你機會司法法制委員會男生不是跟女生吵架我從來都不跟翁小林吵架沒有人想要聽喔聽狗在那裏廢"},{"start":6828.601,"end":6840.651,"text":"你已經廢了一個小時了,人家也都聽得很煩了。我要來審預算了。你到底要給他整頓,要檢驗還是要解決?趕快講一講。他就不是男人,他根本不是男人。他是什麼?他連女人都不如。沒有啦,因為女人在旁邊看,叫女人去打啦。那個羅志強啦。"},{"start":6861.513,"end":6875.282,"text":"他就不是男人阿不要在那邊再講了好不好他不是男人羅志強不是男人阿我不能講喔他可以講人我不能講喔那你問題你都亂搞人阿你都亂搞人阿你都亂打人阿中國人不要在這裏講廢話啦中國人不要來這裏講廢話啦中國人不要在這裏羞辱台灣的制度啦"},{"start":6884.708,"end":6890.633,"text":"你沒有資格鬥他的制度智慧啦!中國人滾出去啦!中國的代表人滾出去啦!中國的代表人滾出去!你昨天講什麼?你是誰滾出來的?我是誰滾出來的?"},{"start":6900.02,"end":6907.507,"text":"翁小玲到底是不是中國的代表人台灣人都看得在眼裡了翁小玲昨天講什麼話全台灣的人都看在眼裡了中國的代表人翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲"},{"start":6928.284,"end":6951.639,"text":"中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲中國的代表翁小玲"},{"start":6958.254,"end":6981.126,"text":"繼續講阿 中國的代表你敢說你不敢承認你最好像個人一樣我就是代表中華人民共和國代表中華人民共和國的翁曉琳代表中華人民共和國的翁曉琳"},{"start":6986.601,"end":6990.867,"text":"你就是昨天這樣講啊!你昨天講什麼?菁姐他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼?他昨天講什麼?"},{"start":6998.11,"end":7019.426,"text":"大家都知道林淑芬是什麼樣的委員嘛大家都知道你是中華人民共和國代表的委員叫翁小玲代表中華人民共和國的委員叫翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委叫翁小玲中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲"},{"start":7022.722,"end":7025.084,"text":"中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲"},{"start":7047.233,"end":7069.691,"text":"你就是中華人民共和國的代表啊!你昨天就是這樣講啊!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲啊!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲!你就是中華人民共和國的立委翁小玲啦!欸?雖然一張公社位你也唸給我聽一下,我再馬上查一下。"},{"start":7078.795,"end":7097.973,"text":"這個都是召委的錯,沒有請大家喝咖啡。我讓你喘一口氣。我也讓你喘一口氣。"},{"start":7100.994,"end":7113.47,"text":"國在廢,我幫你廢幾聲。我是不會廢狗的,但狗一直廢,我只好罵一下。那你是誰啊?人民共和國的立委翁曉琳。有人說他自己是不會廢的狗,但他會咬人。"},{"start":7120.738,"end":7127.902,"text":"中華人民共和國的立委翁曉琳中華人民共和國的立委代表翁曉琳"},{"start":7145.584,"end":7157.795,"text":"你還講中共收復台灣有什麼不對?你就是中華人民共和國的代表!你就是中華人民共和國的代表才會講中共收復台灣有什麼不對?翁小玲就是中華人民共和國的代表!中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲才會說中共收復台灣有什麼不對?當然不對!"},{"start":7167.943,"end":7177.87,"text":"台灣人不會自己講中共收復台灣有什麼不對你就是中華人民共和國的代表中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲這就是中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲一家人間皆知翁小玲就是中華人民共和國的代表中華人民共和國的代表翁小玲翁小玲講中共收復台灣有什麼不對就是不對"},{"start":7198.944,"end":7209.492,"text":"就是不對!你翁小玲就是不對!翁小玲就是不對!你中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中華人民共和國的代表你閉嘴!中共不能沒有資格收復台灣啦!能收復台灣你放屁啦!"},{"start":7224.445,"end":7229.129,"text":"你就是中國狗你就是中國狗你就是中國狗翁小玲中國狗翁小玲中國狗翁小玲中華人民共和國的代表中國的狗中國狗出去外面中國的狗滾出去"},{"start":7252.97,"end":7275.165,"text":"我們繼續跟委員說明今天我們做預算審查我們尊重每位委員就預算內容所提的各種主張跟聲明那麼至於要機關代表答覆那請委員提出後我會指派機關代表來進行答覆那剛才呢有翁委員表達"},{"start":7276.145,"end":7305.044,"text":"那麼因為後面也有陳俊雲委員,現在有莊立文委員舉手要請求發言。那麼請問一下翁委員,您是要機關代表先就您剛才問題進行答覆嗎?我本來就是非常簡單,兩秒鐘的問題。那請問那個陳俊雲委員,讓機關代表先答覆好嗎?我們先處理一下,如果兩位委員同意,那麼翁委員有一個問題要先請機關代表就他問題答覆。那翁委員你要不要再重述一遍,然後再請機關代表回覆?"},{"start":7305.484,"end":7314.373,"text":"我的問題就是說依照捷克的規定,如果國會在60天之內行使了否決權,這還叫做癱瘓憲法法院嗎?好,那要機關代表回覆,那就請機關代表王滬密司長做說明。"},{"start":7323.471,"end":7339.205,"text":"是的,就是說那個不管是在台灣或者是說在捷克他們的國會怎麼行使那個同意權這都是那個國會那個職權那至於說這個是不是癱瘓我想這個是一個判斷這個不是司法院所能夠回復的"},{"start":7339.485,"end":7342.947,"text":"所以你們去參考捷克憲法法院沒有成果沒有成效嘛對你們去參觀了日本加拿大法國還有什麼其他這些國家你們有去學習到人家的憲法法庭怎麼去解釋權力分立原則的精髓嗎"},{"start":7357.074,"end":7362.437,"text":"沒有啊這些國家哪個國家不是有這個處罰藐視國會處罰官員在國會說謊的這相關規定憲法法庭都可以說那是違憲啊這個行政官員對國會啊只是負政治責任不負法律責任我這是"},{"start":7373.983,"end":7380.028,"text":"非常佩服這些大法官們到了這些這個所謂的這個憲法先進的國家裡面去學了學到什麼?學到了跟我們一般的理解一般過去所讀的書都不一樣啊對不對?所以由此可見這些大法官們出國去考察沒有一點成果另外大法官是一年365天都在工作嗎?"},{"start":7400.981,"end":7418.51,"text":"大法官就我所知大法官這個七八月他們也會放個暑假然後呢這個過年然後之前呢也會放寒假那這段時間就他們出國考察的時候請問大法官出國的時候大法官放假的時候是不是也是在癱瘓憲法法庭他們有審案子嗎"},{"start":7421.024,"end":7439.994,"text":"所以只是短暫的時間憲法法庭沒有運作就說他是會癱瘓憲法法庭這種說法成立嗎我們這次通過的憲法訴訟法另外也要求就是如果大法官缺額那麼這個就像是這個禮拜二人事選沒有同意通過"},{"start":7441.451,"end":7461.281,"text":"總統就要在兩個月之內競訴補提名補提名之後送到立法院立法院要競訴審查這樣不會造成憲法法庭的所謂的癱瘓所以我覺得司法院的種種說法都無法讓人接受還是你們心中已經預期反正賴清德也不會再提名"},{"start":7462.791,"end":7463.172,"text":"我還要再講就是"},{"start":7482.932,"end":7497.344,"text":"德國、歐盟國家尤其像德國、奧地利這些國家他們司法的信任度高達7成5、8成你看看我們台灣的司法信任度"},{"start":7498.723,"end":7527.119,"text":"笑死人我之前去做過研究我們的司法信任度大概只像是歐盟國家裏面什麼羅馬尼亞這個斯羅伐克斯羅伐克都還比較好我們是很低很低的二三成這跟人家德國能比嗎上樑不正下樑玩要司法大家對司法信任你大法官沒有建立好公信力誰會相信司法是公正公平的"},{"start":7529.161,"end":7550.727,"text":"今天大家這個看清楚你們派員出國的這個種種的這個計畫確實是沒有任何效益我基本上我並不反對司法院應該要這個出國考察但你考察出來要有成果嘛看到人家的優點見賢思其焉見不賢內自行也"},{"start":7551.847,"end":7560.451,"text":"結果呢,人家的常駐我們都沒有學習到。然後自己呢就在那邊造線造法。也難怪為什麼大家對司法院的預算這麼有意見。好,以上。好,謝謝。那麼接下來因為有陳俊偉,要讓莊委員先嗎?"},{"start":7570.027,"end":7574.593,"text":"謝謝主席我們預算已經討論了蠻長時間我覺得應該是我們主管單位對於相關的計畫的配套並沒有"},{"start":7585.588,"end":7610.586,"text":"很詳細的說明清楚才會導致委員對於我們這個預算有這麼多分歧的意見那我在此也建議就是我們這個出國考察我覺得這是利益良善也是要取長補短能夠參訪這個歐洲及一些先進國家的相關憲法的執行情形這也是要讓我們在推行相關這個憲訴法還是相關"},{"start":7613.148,"end":7618.991,"text":"司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度兩天一次會議"},{"start":7632.159,"end":7648.045,"text":"希望能夠在這個歐洲及這個先進國家裡面看到他們行之有年的這些制度能夠讓我們來做一個非常快速的一個參考的一個依據那我覺得這都是很好的一個方式可是"},{"start":7649.266,"end":7670.297,"text":"就是看起來我們可能在整個過程裡面沒有很完善的一個規劃的一個說明所以我在此也建議我們司法院是不是要提升我們司法院的相關審查這個制度還有運作模式應該是要能夠好好的去審視"},{"start":7672.478,"end":7688.179,"text":"因為我再次建議這個主席,因為這個案子已經討論這麼長時間,是不是針對這個預算,既然大家意見相著的話,是不是保留預算?好,謝謝陳委員。那麼因為陳委員要求,那程序上我跟委員會做個說明。"},{"start":7690.942,"end":7706.533,"text":"本案是第一案,內容涉及到大部分是國外旅費。國外旅費的部分在第一幕當中有第20案也是翁委員所提,21案是本席所提。"},{"start":7707.193,"end":7723.452,"text":"二十二案是羅志強委員所提那因為相關的內容剛剛在國外理會的討論當中各委員都已經充分表達那徵詢這二十、二一、二二是否並同第一案那我們剛剛有委員提議說就保留同意嗎?"},{"start":7725.384,"end":7748.599,"text":"好,那麼那我們第二十二一二二及第一案呢就因為是出國旅費那我們國外旅費我們就第一通案保留送院會協商那因為跟本案齁類類似的也跟委員會徵詢齁那因為十八十九他是一個大陸地區旅費性質呢跟國外旅費"},{"start":7750.595,"end":7776.113,"text":"接近那麼第18案已經撤案那19案的部分請教羅委員您覺得是否可以併案處理好那我們19案也併第一案依國外旅費的通則保留送院會協商謝謝委員會好那麼接下來我們進行第二案那麼第二案到底"},{"start":7778.803,"end":7805.619,"text":"到第27案都是第一幕那其中呢第2、3、4、5案他已經撤案了那麼這三個案子呢都是屬於關於對外宣導的部分那是不是這三案我們分別請羅委員跟因為黃委員不在好那請羅委員跟翁委員就這三案來進行做提案說明請羅委員請"},{"start":7808.018,"end":7810.419,"text":"事實上我們司法院編列了所謂的綜合性司法政策對外宣導溝通的經費大概是1600萬元"},{"start":7828.627,"end":7843.407,"text":"然後另外脫波的部分加進去大概是2350萬元可是實際上一方面除了說總體來說你就發現司法院過去人民對他的普遍信任度跟了解度都不太高啦"},{"start":7844.068,"end":7862.676,"text":"那8月台灣司法公正度實施的議題調查有高達84.2%的人不瞭解2016年至今政府所推動的司法改革內容那甚至有近半49.2%的民眾不相信司法會作出公正判決這總體的部分"},{"start":7864.617,"end":7887.936,"text":"但是另外我們從個體的部分就是說你就發現司法院媒體宣導案多項與國民法官制度相關但是根據立法院預算中心的評估報告司法院國民法官預算執行率低落那麼112年才只有19.48那麼國民法官預估的實際案量落差甚大"},{"start":7888.416,"end":7915.675,"text":"那112年預估案件是305件但實際收案只有108件連年雜大筆的沒宣預算毫無成效是浪費公帑所以在黃國昌主題的這個案子上他是主張減略預算是1600萬那我的部分的話是主張減略500萬那我是建議就是說是不是就保留送那請他們說明以後看怎麼樣處理"},{"start":7917.805,"end":7944.499,"text":"接下來第4案的提案人是翁曉琳委員請做提案說明因為我有發現這個司法院他這些年來他這個基本上編了蠻多的錢去做媒體宣導可是呢事實上成效不高這在我之前在質詢的時候我都有詢問過那麼更何況其實司法院更應該專注在司法審判的業務上面那麼有關於像是這個什麼法律"},{"start":7945.219,"end":7946.9,"text":"司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":7974.451,"end":7977.834,"text":"議員．一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會第11屆第2會期司法院及法律扶助基金會總預算案關於司法院及法律扶助基金會10年度預算書案。"},{"start":7998.433,"end":8021.665,"text":"那麼刪除300萬然後凍結100萬而且請司法院在兩個月之內要向司委會提出專案報告並經同意後才可以凍值好那麼因為剛剛第二案提案委員黃委員不在那剛剛羅委員是不是已經就您的部分一併說明了好那麼三案提案委員都已經說明那是不是請機關代表回覆"},{"start":8022.537,"end":8022.797,"text":"國民法官"},{"start":8044.085,"end":8064.905,"text":"已經有大幅提升了,這先與說明。然後接下來說,這一筆預算,國民法官它事實上只是占,國民法官制度只是占其中的一部分,112年之後就沒有再針對國民法官制度編列專門的宣導預算,都是併到這一項。"},{"start":8066.847,"end":8067.388,"text":"司法院函送財團法人"},{"start":8081.901,"end":8109.772,"text":"推行的這個新的那個司法制度我們有必要讓那個民眾那個瞭解就是說這些那個制度的內容是什麼那像那個明年114年重要的這個新的那個精神衛生法這是一個很大的那個變革就是說有那個強制住院要由那個法院審查那像這個是一個完全新的一套制度我們有必要就是讓那個民眾瞭解就是說怎麼去使用"},{"start":8110.772,"end":8117.857,"text":"進到法院來怎麼使用這一套制度那又例如呢就是說那個大家都知道法院是非常血汗的吼就是"},{"start":8119.307,"end":8141.245,"text":"收的案件量非常多但是人員沒這麼多所以我們就要利用各種比如說新的這些工具比如說像這個我們一直在推廣這個線上申請民事訴訟或者是那個強制執行還有這個電子債券的這些新的制度或者是說希望大家多利用這個訴訟外的紛爭解決機制ADR"},{"start":8144.548,"end":8152.977,"text":"或保護被害人新的訴訟參與制度以上這些等等我們都是要透過這一筆經費再做一個和民眾的宣傳以上好 那麼請專委員提詢問"},{"start":8165.005,"end":8182.547,"text":"我倒覺得翁委員這個地方可能你們要再考慮一下啦。如果說他編這個預算,立法院這邊有所不滿的話,我也會不滿。但我不滿的原因剛好跟你們相反。我會覺得你們編這個預算就真的編得太少了。"},{"start":8183.917,"end":8203.934,"text":"我覺得你們編得太少了一個訴訟制度的一個性格或者說一個重大制度的一個改變那會對現狀產生衝擊但你對於說整個會去使用到整個制度的一個改變的人你本來就是要讓他知道立法院立法委員"},{"start":8206.716,"end":8235.013,"text":"就比如說一個制度改變在經過立法院這邊的一個同意以後法令的一個修訂以後立法院是在審裡面很清楚啊早上審到這個這個這個時候我們這裡是不談專業的啊這裡是不談專業大家是大家你至少要有點聲量啊然後吵架吵贏政黨會有政黨的立場可是呢我碰到司法院的部分我常常都會去想就因為啊他的"},{"start":8236.533,"end":8262.234,"text":"從過去到現在大家談司法改革談到現在他的信任度都不高但不高我對我跟一般的人理解會不同他以後也不會高到哪裡去以台灣目前的現狀他也不會高但問題呢你編了這2350萬你像比如說一個新的國民法官法他這個制度一上路以後"},{"start":8264.346,"end":8284.828,"text":"不要說一般民眾不知道連國會議員我看都十分之九全部都不知道連國會議員都不知道啊所以這個制度你本來就必須要去做宣傳必須要去做宣傳倒也不是說司法院有辦法拿這兩千多萬去好像去為自己來做美容不會"},{"start":8286.095,"end":8296.922,"text":"司法院沒有什麼好美容的啦還有沒什麼沒什麼好美容的那只是說去今天做這樣的一個簡略的一個理由是講說司法院國民法官預算執行率偏低這個像112年19.418%那就是說國民法官預估跟實際案件量落差會比較大那也就是因為落差太大所以你們就必須要在"},{"start":8314.492,"end":8326.544,"text":"這個部分司法院再去加油的一個地方,不然其實整個涉及到制度改變,就算沒有這些新的制度,我都認為以現在在打詐來看的話,司法院也可以多盡一點力,宣傳的人各個機關其實都"},{"start":8334.183,"end":8355.932,"text":"這個也不是單一啊就只有這個檢察官的事情啊或者說警政機關的一個事情啊有時候常常我會看到說一個判決做出來以後啊好像是各方多所責難但是這個責難裡面呢常常都帶有民粹啊那只像這種時候的時候關鍵時刻你反而司法院也可以來講講話那這一些來看的話以提案的"},{"start":8361.328,"end":8366.002,"text":"提案的理由要去做一個簡略就是說你的案件數啊太低了"},{"start":8367.298,"end":8395.22,"text":"那我看來是你們應該把它執行的狀況再去做說明啊下一次啊我期待你們這個這一筆的預算對於制度性格的部分啊我認為你們下一次要去把它做一個提高啊那我們因為我們在國會在審預算的時候我們不能要求增加支出嘛但是我是做這樣的一個建議啦做這樣一個建議啦因為制度啊是大家的啦啊如果這個看完了以後我看就保留啊但是主席要譴責你的咖啡還沒來"},{"start":8400.01,"end":8410.745,"text":"謝謝,剛剛莊委員似乎是要提議要保的,但是有翁委員要發言,那是要先處理還是您的提議?好,那請翁委員發言對,因為我是這個"},{"start":8414.624,"end":8426.592,"text":"很在意機關做的媒體業務宣導它的成效是如何。我砍預算、刪預算,我不會無地方使,我都是有憑有據。那麼以剛剛副秘書長這邊講的幾個重點,"},{"start":8431.275,"end":8458.432,"text":"比如說您說這個ADR訴訟外紛爭解決機制這個很重要那我也認為這個宣導很重要那我實際上看了你們司法院的YT頻道上面這個影片它的確效果不錯有44萬次的點閱而我認為如果說這樣的一個影片做成它已經有發揮這樣的效果它其實可以繼續的再傳那麼就這個ADR的解決機制它這個法律通過之後目前你們有修法嗎沒有嗎"},{"start":8461.38,"end":8487.806,"text":"有嗎?就目前沒有新的修法嘛所以這個影片它可以繼續再用你們也不需要再去花錢再去做這方面的宣導然後呢另外呢但是你們自己可以去看看司法院的YT頻道裡面非常多的影片它的點閱率是非常非常少幾十次二、三十次、四、五十次然後您剛說的國民法官的他一年前到今天是638次"},{"start":8494.465,"end":8516.362,"text":"這個影片的點閱量其實是比很多的其他機關的要少當然這也不是只有司法院的問題我自己也看到很多機關所花的錢做的相關的影片的點閱量非常非常低我想請問在座的這些法官、庭長們你們平常有去看過你們司法院做的影片嗎?"},{"start":8517.796,"end":8544.003,"text":"做的YT影片嗎?我相信應該沒有,因為我上次就質詢過了。那麼所以我就本席是認為業務宣導、法律宣導固然重要,但是整個司法的公信力的建立絕對不是在你們這些做影片啊。那麼影片做完之後一次性你要怎麼樣去把它宣傳出去,這個不需要再花這麼多的錢去做。"},{"start":8547.17,"end":8564.725,"text":"所以我想這次你們是編了2300多萬我也只不過就是說刪了一成左右的錢我是希望你們可以把相關經費用在刀口上而不是做了很多沒有太大意義的這樣的一個影片"},{"start":8565.786,"end":8566.046,"text":"以上。"},{"start":8581.391,"end":8598.766,"text":"好謝謝翁委員那麼因為翁委員要請機關代表回覆那也提醒剛剛莊委員是提出要做全案保留所以我這邊就兩點機關代表待會回覆的時候請表示您的態度第一就是就剛剛委員所詢詢的部分請做說明第二那麼因為剛剛羅委員是"},{"start":8600.607,"end":8618.454,"text":"委員和委員都要分別要求檢列五百萬跟三百萬那以及分別凍結百分之五十及百分之一百萬那就這個部分是否要表達機關的看法那我再做一併處理記得專委是提出要保留機關代表王副秘長"},{"start":8619.636,"end":8639.692,"text":"好,那個謝謝主席跟委員齁那個有關於翁委員就是說請我們提高那個製作影片的那個點閱率齁我覺得這個非常感謝委員提醒那這個我想我們會就是說在以後製作的那個影片還有就是已經上架了我們會去做一個盤點那這個是我們就是會努力的方向這個謝謝齁那我想我剛剛那個舉例只是說我們這一筆那個經費呢"},{"start":8644.036,"end":8667.278,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":8667.578,"end":8670.421,"text":"﹚立法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":8684.554,"end":8709.226,"text":"我之前一直在辦那個刑事那也是去擔任那個地院院長之後也才知道說這個制度是怎麼run的那但是呢這一個制度就是確實是跟那個民眾的權利還有跟整個醫界事實上都會產生一個很大的一個變革那所以真的是有那個去去做那個溝通那個必要那等一下我看那個婷筠要補充好謝謝"},{"start":8710.336,"end":8724.739,"text":"好,那麼有廳長要做補充嗎?是,各位委員好,我是司法院新聞及法治宣導處的處長陳亭玉關於委員問到說司法院那個YT頻道的部分影片就是點閱率很低的問題"},{"start":8725.74,"end":8728.942,"text":"我是要說其實我們做的影片有一些是做那個媒體投放的所以是我們會因為根據民調啦一般民眾對於司法訊息的來源很大部分還是來自電視啊網路啊廣播等等的不同的媒體所以我們會製作相關的政策宣導的素材在這個四大媒體上做投放"},{"start":8748.533,"end":8753.675,"text":"那所以這個影片呢他所觸及的民眾的那個數量並不能只看這個我們YT頻道上的點閱率那其實我們除了在四大媒體上播放之外我們也會利用很多這個公益脫波的或是說在辦活動的時候來播放這個影片所以這個我們相關這個政策宣導影片的播放量絕對是不止於在那個YT頻道顯示的那個數量這個部分可能要跟各位委員補充說明"},{"start":8781.851,"end":8796.807,"text":"現在已經說明完畢,那對於本案有委員提案要檢列或凍結,也有委員提案保留,那請問來表達看法,對於檢列或凍結的意見。主張要保留這個我們尊重啊。好,那麼我們在這邊跟委員做個報告。"},{"start":8798.814,"end":8823.055,"text":"第二案第三案第四案我們就保留送院會協商那第五案測案那接下來呢第六案是水電費那因為是不是有保留因為我跟委員說明因為我們過去好幾天來都做水電費的部分最後結果都是通案保留送院會協商是我同意第六案直接通案保留送院會協商"},{"start":8824.278,"end":8852.33,"text":"同意好謝謝羅委員接下來第7案那因為有改書面有要報告的部分那是不是提案委員莊委員或林委員在場要做說明這個已經說明過了我想我們就同意他就是維持原動數但是這個專案報告改成書面報告好書面報告後同樣的概念就是說司法的形象不是一個委辦計畫或者是影展所以您的意思是說送書面報告使得動之是不是並經同意"},{"start":8853.722,"end":8871.046,"text":"要並經同期嗎?我們那個專委員跟那個其他委員的看法,我們是不是討論一下?書面報告,因為那只是一個引轉的經費而已。他可以並前面的一起報告。並前面。第七案。他就是專案改成書面而已,他們同意。"},{"start":8885.199,"end":8913.501,"text":"那只是一個引轉的經費預算編列數是32萬等於全數凍結是吧對它只是一個引轉的經費我跟委員報告一下吼那個也跟林委員吼莊委員說明吼因為呢並經同意啊那麼這個在程序上我們就要進入到委員會司法法制委員會的討論事項但是主席是並前面的第四第五案一樣啊"},{"start":8914.417,"end":8939.077,"text":"他也是要經同意。前面的第11屆他們是保留了。跟林委員說明,這個案子它的全數是32萬。如果你單獨凍結是送書面報告後使得凍支,那麼等到他們越快把書面報告送到委員會來排報告事項就可以凍支。但是如果您是要經同意後,我們委員會要排討論事項。"},{"start":8940.518,"end":8961.908,"text":"那討論是這樣,我跟委員說明,昨天我們在審查總統府在去年﹖不是,那只是一個引轉的經費而已﹖是,我說明一下,丁委員,總統府去年的委員會﹖本委員會有做出對今年度預算在12月19日進行凍結,那麼該凍結案也是到今年的昨天"},{"start":8962.728,"end":8963.589,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":8977.964,"end":8998.989,"text":"我還是說明一下 那麼全部的沒宣費用3200未來送院會協商後的內容不管是準與多少 那如果你主張簡列 這個30萬都不可能放在裡面 因為你是全數簡列我們是一個這個目的下 如果涉及到剛剛的所謂的媒體的對外說明"},{"start":9000.169,"end":9000.83,"text":"但若非……"},{"start":9011.577,"end":9035.205,"text":"不是還是有通過多少預算那這個32萬縱使有通過預算也不能使用在這個項目向下所以您的意思就是說要全數刪除的意思主席我知道因為我們知道我其實因為在野黨講很多我也不想再多說很多因為提升司法形象絕對不是靠一個影展就可以解決的也不是公關叫這個行銷費用可以解決的所以司法形象其實需要"},{"start":9036.125,"end":9049.835,"text":"從制度面還有執行面還有所有全體司法人員的這個努力所以這個32萬的影展其實我們要宣示的就是說其實司法的形象不是有計劃你你你這些人辦一個影展就可以解決的"},{"start":9051.089,"end":9066.974,"text":"瞭解林委員的意思那提案委員、專委員那是不是這樣子我們徵得委員會同意那本案就並同就不用去什麼凍結啦專案報告啦什麼就是全案保留送院會協商就一樣嘛因為你是包在那個媒宣的預算當中"},{"start":9068.21,"end":9087.182,"text":"但我們是指定的當然當然但是但是在全案協商的時候保有信用協商的時候呢這一個項目還是一樣是討論的標的之一好啦我知道OK那機關代表要不要做要需要做回應嗎還是都沒需要他們簡略他們好讓讓他們那個會計主任這邊來這32而已"},{"start":9093.789,"end":9096.092,"text":"如果委員會同意那我們本案呢一樣第7案保留送院會協商接下來我們進行的是"},{"start":9117.659,"end":9138.045,"text":"第8案,那第8案是人事費,那人事費的部分是不是請提案委員羅委員﹖有改了,對不起,有改組決議,抱歉抱歉,因為這個更新的這一版。好,那麼第8案改組決議,那第9案是屬於特別費的部分,那提案委員翁委員請說明"},{"start":9140.146,"end":9159.721,"text":"因為這些年來其實這個司法院在整個民眾的心中是無法取得更高的信任度大家普遍對於司法是不信任不信賴的那麼同時呢那麼司法院似乎在"},{"start":9160.902,"end":9183.842,"text":"解決法官過勞的議題上面也都沒有任何積極的作為就代表司法院的院長、副院長等人他們領導無方那麼在過去這個SIF改會議裡面有些重要的項目也沒有去積極的落實成效不彰所以從這個觀點來看這個司法院院長、副院長、副秘書長還有秘書長的這個特別費應該要"},{"start":9191.311,"end":9213.115,"text":"要有所刪減否則的話這個實在是對台灣的社會台灣民眾而且對於司法人員是沒有盡到他們的心力因此本席提案就是刪除、剪裂預算109萬然後凍結109萬然後也請司法院兩個月內向司法院"},{"start":9218.249,"end":9239.789,"text":"司法法制委員會提出專案報告後才可以動之。好,謝謝翁委員。那麼因為主席這邊有義務要做一個提醒。那麼根據大法官釋制第601號在民國94年7月22號的解釋對於立法院刪除大法官司法專業加給之預算是否違憲。這個部分有一個釋憲文。"},{"start":9243.112,"end":9264.188,"text":"那其實他大意是說其實就這個部分到底要刪除的預算立法院在做預算審議的刪除的部分如果涉及到的是屬於包括政府院長、大法官、法官涉及到屬於信奉的部分那麼是跟憲法第80條有違那我是把這個四憲文"},{"start":9265.689,"end":9273.283,"text":"提告給委員會做參考。那麼還是請機關代表做說明。還是有其他委員要表示意見。那翁委員繼續。"},{"start":9274.926,"end":9276.968,"text":"關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度"},{"start":9297.568,"end":9298.048,"text":"司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度"},{"start":9319.445,"end":9322.227,"text":"這個他的專業家級來看的話我是認為他本身就是法官身份出生的就應該跟一般法官一樣即便他當了大法官他的專業家級仍然是要保留可是對於那個非司法事務界出生的大法官"},{"start":9337.62,"end":9343.103,"text":"他不是就跟一般的這個徵務人員一樣啊就一般徵務人員法務部部長有特別領個什麼專業佳績當然現在法務部長如果說他本身他是司法人員的話可能還是繼續有這個專業佳績喔所以呢這個地方的確是可以檢討那現在本席所提出來的第9案那並不是刪除大法官的專業佳績而是特別費這個特別費在我們其他機關包括我們正式思委會審查其他的"},{"start":9365.316,"end":9365.796,"text":"謝謝翁委員,那剛剛莊委員有舉手是嗎?"},{"start":9391.233,"end":9418.868,"text":"來請這個我特別來跟翁委員提醒一下這個是20年前的事了20年前那個時候也是國情聯手然後提出這樣的一個修憲案那其實後來被在499的時候其實就被大法官宣告鬼憲那整部你現在提到的說我們要來修改法律這沒辦法修我也很不滿但是沒辦法修"},{"start":9421.906,"end":9427.488,"text":"你這個還是會免費到憲法裡面的規定。真的啦,會有這樣的一個問題啦,否則你說這一條的一個規定,這一條規定當然可以爭論啦,你說終身職也好啦,好多特殊的保障也可以啊,但那涉及到的是一個價值的一個問題啦,不然也很好啊,你們去提案啦,"},{"start":9447.193,"end":9448.354,"text":"憲法第81十一條裏面你說關於法官非依法律不得檢訪的規定你本來依法"},{"start":9472.976,"end":9494.333,"text":"來這個法官獨立審判你該本來就該去憲法裡面去保障他這個部分法官除了有懲戒事由你才可以去按照這個憲法第170條的規定你法律上跟他檢訪否則各個憲法機關你要用任何的理由像我們立法院你要去把他砍掉那不可能的事那這個到底對還是不對"},{"start":9498.837,"end":9502.76,"text":"我也不知道。但是那個是價值判斷。憲法就放在那個地方。20年前立法院要去報復大法官。我們去用塞一個粹配。我們現在法律就用預算案你再去把它預算給它做一個簡略。"},{"start":9519.232,"end":9521.493,"text":"我必須要跟你講的就是說其實我講這個是在從你的那個第八案跟第九案第十案一併跟你講的因為我剛好在看到我剛上"},{"start":9540.2,"end":9542.502,"text":"但是特別為這個部分,大家如果有意見的話,那就統一啦,就保留啦。"},{"start":9561.584,"end":9589.676,"text":"好,那麼莊委員有提提保留,那機關代表要示範說明在此之前還主席真的我們委員會同意的是不是這樣子,因為剛剛第7案雖然是說並同前面幾案保留送運會現場但是機關代表表示說林委員的提案提書面報告經同意後使得動之的凍結案他們可以接受那是否委員會同意剛剛第7案就依照這個方式來進行,請問委員會同意嗎?"},{"start":9591.465,"end":9616.314,"text":"可以吼。那我們第一期案呢重新做宣告。第一期案呢我們就依這個提案的內容吼。那改為提書面報告經同意後使得動之。那動結數是32萬。好謝謝。那第9案的部分那剛剛已經有委員表達詢問了。那機關代表。好委員有提出要進保留。那請機關代表進行說明。"},{"start":9620.167,"end":9633.076,"text":"我們是贊成保留但是這個特別費還是要說明稍微說明一下就是依這個各級政府機關特別費支用規定特別費是用在什麼是同人有婚喪喜慶的時候給的這個禮金電椅"},{"start":9635.077,"end":9654.582,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":9654.742,"end":9654.882,"text":"好,換委員繼續詢問"},{"start":9675.697,"end":9700.851,"text":"因為現在這個法官過勞的事件這麼多我其實我也沒有真的看就是這樣好了可能請這個司法院提出你們這4年來這個首長使用特別費支出的項目在哪些項目到底有哪些是真的是給基層的法官同仁婚喪喜慶的這樣的一個"},{"start":9705.835,"end":9710.421,"text":"這樣的一個這個未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未未"},{"start":9715.506,"end":9735.035,"text":"好 那麼翁委員我就您的意思來做一個整理您的意思說想要知道過去司法院該特別會的資用的情況那如果說你要知道這個資用的情況純粹只是知道你並沒有要檢列或凍結的話那這個案子是可以以阻絕的方式要求他們提出書面就過去幾年內的資用狀況予以說明"},{"start":9736.696,"end":9750.576,"text":"您看這是不是您的意思?就是說因為他剛剛基本代表是希望不要剪裂不要凍結那您好像也可以接受但是你要是要了解過去的滋用情況那是不是這樣的話就符合剛剛我說的那個主決意的方式您覺得勒?"},{"start":9751.127,"end":9768.265,"text":"是這樣的,因為我不確定到底他們把特別費使用到什麼地方,所以這個專案報告一定是要的。當然就是要看他們回復的狀況,然後才能夠決定到底要不要剪裂或是凍結,所以我建議這個部分仍然是維持。"},{"start":9769.612,"end":9791.748,"text":"您仍然覺得要檢列跟凍結並行,那把那個書面報告列為是檢列的特別條件,就是書面報告經同意後才能解除解凍嘛,對不對?解凍啦,凍結的這個解凍。來,好像那個吳委員要表示意見。報告主席,是在第9案是嗎?那剛剛不是說保留了嗎?"},{"start":9793.537,"end":9819.83,"text":"就是保留嘛,因為好像也就保留當然委員要求提供一些資料你們就來提供只是好像從來沒有針對因為我看這裡寫的是專案報告針對一個憲法機關的首長的特別費要進行一個立法院的專案報告這點我當然覺得很不適宜啊你說書面報告提供資料這個我"},{"start":9820.888,"end":9850.285,"text":"可以接受委員的監督。針對我們立法院沒有比較大啦。大家都是平等相為的啦。憲法機關互相尊重。那如果這樣我們也沒有要求韓國瑜院長的特別費的使用要做一個專案報告。我覺得大家彼此尊重啦。所以這個如果說委員還是要求要專案報告那我當然沒有辦法接受就保留。好,那麼我們政協委員會是否我們第9案就保留送院會協商?"},{"start":9851.81,"end":9872.469,"text":"同意。接下來跟委員會說明我們第10案、第11案一直到第16案。這裡分別都是就司法行政業務。其中第12案已經撤案。第14、15、16改為主決議。是否這些提案就剩下第10?"},{"start":9876.104,"end":9885.375,"text":"11及13那提案委員呢都是由黃國昌委員的提案那請教羅委員是列書委員幫他做說明請羅委員好"},{"start":9888.187,"end":9916.076,"text":"第10案就是有鑒於司法院國家預算應遵截所以辦理司法行政業務高達3億7千多萬為業務費為了避免浪費公帑所以建議是減列5000萬元這第10案第11案就是說我國的稅務救濟制度長年一直受到批評那行政院過度偏袒稅捐機關所以讓"},{"start":9917.455,"end":9942.34,"text":"民眾很難獲得公平的裁決那這對人民的侵害就相當嚴重所以司法院在第11屆第二會期有函請本院審議稅務行政事件審理法草案那草案以專法的形式變更稅務行政輸送制度設置稅務審查官那等等那影響層面都非常的大"},{"start":9943.188,"end":9962.277,"text":"但是在今年的8月12日辦的公聽會參加公聽會的73名代表只有5名的民間代表那司法院也沒有上網公開直播跟會議記錄只是會後發出新聞稿變成是一種過水政策宣導那甚至也拒絕提供本"},{"start":9963.477,"end":9986.431,"text":"委員該草案研究制定委員會的討論記錄,使得外界無法得知研修過程,所以希望司法院能夠檢討改進,所以檢列該預算2000萬元並凍結20%,那等司法院三個月內向立法院司法法制委員會提出專案報告同意後再實的凍結,這是第11案。"},{"start":9987.672,"end":10013.033,"text":"第13案有鑒於2017一七年司法國司會已經作成決議要進行制度的檢討改進以改善法官在內的司法人員具體工作條件但近年來司法人員過勞情形屢見不鮮引發法官協會的白花運動司法院責無旁貸希望能夠延宜改進措施所以凍結預算10%"},{"start":10016.235,"end":10023.145,"text":"希望司法院在3個月內向立法院司法法制委員會提出專案報告並經同意後時得通知。以上。"},{"start":10036.539,"end":10056.529,"text":"我綜合來針對10、11還有13案綱是聯署委員羅志強委員替提案委員黃國昌委員做的論述那第10案我想在要大砍5000萬但是內容實在只為了要蹲劫兩個字我覺得這個內容實在是太空泛"},{"start":10057.089,"end":10067.998,"text":"你要大砍人家預算之前這理由也要寫得合理正當那這麼習字如今只為了要尊潔然後就要大砍三億多要大砍五千萬我覺得這個"},{"start":10070.356,"end":10076.742,"text":"我很想探知提案委員進一步的這個提案理由是什麼他認為3減5000萬而不是500萬他這個合理性這比例原則在哪裡那第10案的部分那當然11案有多了一些這個比較具體的說明對於這個稅務救濟制度那我們尊重提案委員他對於提案的這個說明"},{"start":10094.398,"end":10100.161,"text":"但是一樣這一筆裡頭4億多要大砍2000萬還要凍結20%那這事足以會造成提案委員要求我們對於稅務行政事件審理的整個精進你反而把預算砍了那他怎麼去改善怎麼去改進呢那第13案也是一樣對於這個司法人員的過勞跟減壓事實上我自己在我的質詢裡頭我也提出了五大方法"},{"start":10124.073,"end":10143.213,"text":"那我也知道說這有困難但我覺得就是逐步做但是一個關鍵的是要去修這個中央政府機關總原額法其實反而是立法院應當扮演角色我們應當從根本解決我自己平常心講我提出了五大司法人員減壓的方法裡頭"},{"start":10145.135,"end":10171.252,"text":"比如說這個減少訴訟的一些行政程序然後我們如何把這個金字塔的這個訴訟的這個制度把它做很好的改善這些很多都是比較治標的治本就是要添補原額而添補原額就是要修政府機關基準法是立法院要幫助司法院一把的啊"},{"start":10172.213,"end":10191.769,"text":"那怎麼立法院我們應當扮演這個角色我們沒有積極在做反而要砍司法院的預算那砍了不就是更又造成司法人員過勞跟壓力嗎對不對預算沒了那他們怎麼去做事有的可以委外的有些可以去來做對於司法人員的其他補貼的預算都沒啦"},{"start":10193.59,"end":10222.458,"text":"所以總回來這三案我真的是要很很切的來說明一下台灣整體的司法預算占中央政府總預算只有一趴人均享有的司法的服務的費用只有1164元我們遠低於歐美進步國家以歐盟來講我們低於歐盟的中位數的一半都不到所以國家對於司法預算"},{"start":10224.076,"end":10246.918,"text":"我們應當立法院要做的是想辦法去司法來增加司法預算或者是其他司法資源的投入他包括預算跟人事所以我真的非常不樂見在台灣的司法投資相對不足的狀況之下委員們針對一筆司法行政3億要大砍5000萬"},{"start":10249.144,"end":10275.339,"text":"然後提案內容只有為了尊潔兩個字這是非常不負責任的提案方式啊這不是司法報復嗎這不是對於就你們還沒審預算之前就先揚言我要報復司法院的預算啊我就看到這個提案啊第十案只為了國家預算尊潔尊潔兩個字可以不用寫其他的內容就要砍人家"},{"start":10276.613,"end":10290.406,"text":"一﹑六分之一從來沒有這樣子粗糙的嘛然後我剛剛也說了國家的司法預算只有政府總預算的一趴不到我們遠低於其他進步國家我們還要這樣來砍預算嗎"},{"start":10292.475,"end":10307.94,"text":"我也要來分享司法預算的獨立這個是憲法所賦予的憲法徵修條文的第5條講到司法預算的獨立連司法院把預算送到行政院他只能夠加注意見不能做刪減"},{"start":10309.961,"end":10330.986,"text":"這就是我們的憲法基於五權分立對於司法預算的獨立他在憲法增修條文的第五條也好或者是預算法第93條都再次的去確認司法預算的獨立當然立法院可以審查可是如果是過當的不明就理的執行政治報復的"},{"start":10332.842,"end":10347.354,"text":"隨便一砍就兩千三千我在立法院這麼多年欸我跟大家分享一下過去近三年司法預算的審查結果在委員會的凍結數total 1296萬平均在委員會的減劣數只有70萬"},{"start":10356.796,"end":10379.256,"text":"這是大家立法院基於平等相為權利分立原則對於司法預算的獨立給予的尊重也是透過審查去做出這樣的決議當然在院會因為各部會統山的狀況那在刪減數有增加到1億左右那個是統山所以我再次提醒真的不要開這種惡例"},{"start":10381.823,"end":10404.27,"text":"你真的要刪預算我不曉得黃國昌第10案羅委員你替他說明你不覺得你替他說明也很心虛嗎?第10案啊11案、13案他多多少少有擠出一些具體他認為哪裡要改進好,凍結也許可以可是第10案您剛在聽他說明的時候我國的辦理司法行政業務3億7千多萬應尊潔然後就要砍5千萬"},{"start":10410.827,"end":10435.961,"text":"對,如果我們過去在臺北市議會審預算也沒有這樣嘛我們要審議各局處也要提更具體的所以我再次認為這三筆都應當協助司法院把委員關心的事情司法人員的減壓、司法行政的優化乃至於這個稅務審理的精進它都需要預算跟人力我們要做的是支持預算而不是不明就理的砍預算"},{"start":10438.151,"end":10464.805,"text":"好謝謝吳士堯委員先跟委員說明現在剛剛那個莊委員提議的咖啡已經送到各位桌前請大家依序享用希望我們溫暖提神然後還和解那麼我先跟委員報告一下那麼剛剛10案11案及13案請大家看手頭上的提案本有一個地方要更正提案本第11案它的預算書頁次是37頁不是44頁"},{"start":10466.986,"end":10493.139,"text":"那如果請大家看到預算書的第37頁為什麼它的表達會說這個11案它是在辦理司法行政業務向下一共4億1907萬2000元那這個項目包含哪些呢應該不只包含稅務行政事件審理法草案當中包括公聽會它一共如列了一共有54個項目"},{"start":10496.101,"end":10516.159,"text":"從37月、38月、39月到40月所以這個4億1907萬2000元的這個科目呢是包含了54個工作事項那因為這第11案呢他提的是主於所謂的這個稅審法的公聽會的部分"},{"start":10516.88,"end":10541.2,"text":"那麼他就通案進行提議進行檢列兩千萬凍結百分之二十那是否我們請機關代表就這三個提案的部分進行說明王副秘書長說明是什麼是針對他內容說的還是說內容說明"},{"start":10544.295,"end":10567.592,"text":"市長代表在演議之前那個羅委員要發言請因為剛剛吳世耀委員有一些意見那這個主題案雖然不在但是我還是要代表他代替他來回應一下首先我們來看第10案實際上剛剛這個吳世耀委員的隱居的憲法徵修條文那我不知道是我聽錯還是吳世耀委員的理解有誤"},{"start":10568.613,"end":10595.427,"text":"第五條的第六項他講的是司法院所提出是年度司法概算行政院不得刪減但得家族意見編入中央政府總預算案送立法院審議所以確實行政院是不可以刪減但是立法院本來就做預算審議機關在憲政上的話那實際上司法院預算那今天我們才會有所謂審議算這件事情"},{"start":10596.287,"end":10615.482,"text":"至於所謂的刪除這個五千萬到底是不是合理這件事情我覺得是榮獲討論但是我想這個環環產委員會提這個部分也是有一點免利的性質為什麼呢大家可以看到我們前面有講過近來國民對於司法普遍不信任也不了解"},{"start":10616.075,"end":10644.606,"text":"那像今年8月台灣司法公正度14議題調查有84.2%的民眾是不了解2016年到現在為止就政府所推動的司法改革內容那有49.2%的民眾不相信司法會做成公正判決所以因此針對這一次我們的那個司法院的那個預算當中包括司法行政業務的部分的話我想這個刪減的部分當然我們現在只是在司法法制委員會"},{"start":10645.706,"end":10667.722,"text":"那將來到這個協商也好或到院會也好大家覺得說到底五千萬合不合宜還是有討論的空間但是我覺得基本上對預算的刪除除了說這個提案委員認為的就是有尊潔國家預算現在實際上大家也知我們民進黨政府很窮錢不夠所以我們也很努力幫大家找錢"},{"start":10668.823,"end":10668.863,"text":"第11案"},{"start":10684.408,"end":10700.913,"text":"為什麼國常委員會有這樣的一個想法我們事實上從2017年納稅者權力保護法上路之後我們發現人民真的有得到更公平的裁決我們從勝數率來看就說事實上20182019大約是6%左右勝數率20177%左右2021是8%左右2022是4%左右2023是7%左右"},{"start":10710.436,"end":10724.712,"text":"所以換言之2017年是百分之六左右啦所以換言之人民的勝訴率是不是有這個納稅者權力保護法上路之後有獲得更公平的裁決這一點其實是有點疑問的那更重要的是說為什麼今天"},{"start":10725.693,"end":10752.494,"text":"國參委員他要提出說今天對於這一部分預算做出2000萬的一個簡列那其實第一個就是說你也發現我們司法院為因應相關的東西希望我們提出稅務行政事件審理法的草案那舉辦公聽會的部分這跟納稅的權益這麼攸關的事情我覺得司法院是不是在處理的態度上跟處理的做法上可能也要再注意一下包括研究計畫為什麼沒有公開"},{"start":10755.354,"end":10773.318,"text":"公聽會的代表就非常不平衡行政法院代表13人財政部代表20人六都稅券代表13人各縣市稅務局代表22人結果民間團體跟公會只有5個人所以這樣的公聽會的一個所謂的成員的組成其實我覺得是相當不平衡的"},{"start":10778.239,"end":10804.315,"text":"那更何況後面審議會的討論記錄啊那不公開然後也沒有進行比較合宜的所謂的這個透明的一個直播或是相關透明的揭露那這些部分我想就今天黃國昌委員第11案希望說能夠透過這個預算的這個簡略那麼也給我們行政機關一點鼓勵啦就希望說在相關的事情上你們能不能"},{"start":10805.476,"end":10819.488,"text":"給大家感受到你們願意更透明更願意接受問責也更願意為納稅人的這個橫評來去著眼那這個預算的一個提案我想可能希望我們司法院以及在座委員可以參考那"},{"start":10820.569,"end":10829.957,"text":"第三個十三案十三案的部分我就要特別說明一下十三案我覺得就很純粹因為只有凍結10%所以實際上它並不是一個簡略的預算所以這種情況之下就是針對我們現在司法院過勞的情況我覺得通常我們凍結預算並不是在反對這個預算凍結這個預算某種程度是督促我們今天司法院"},{"start":10845.589,"end":10874.375,"text":"對於司法人員過勞的情形真的要再加把勁努力讓我們立法院能夠更進一步的了解然後提出相關的不管是書面報告或專案報告讓我們知道實際上我們立法院真的很努力在做解除司法人員的過勞部分所以第13案它其實是凍結10%以程度來講10%的程度也不算我覺得說太為難司法院所以以上這三個案子我是建議說是不是就請主席就保留吧"},{"start":10876.255,"end":10886.695,"text":"需不需要機關代表說明?機關代表有要說明?我們現在要保留?好,那那個委員要求說?"},{"start":10887.332,"end":10908.192,"text":"好第二次發言那等一下要保留就保留我是沒有聽過說檢列預算是為了給公務部門鼓勵所以是檢列預算我聽不懂這個邏輯第二個呢羅委員說現在不是中央一直在喊沒錢嗎才化法修了沒錢剛好砍錢啊"},{"start":10910.229,"end":10934.398,"text":"這是什麼邏輯?你砍司法院的預算這錢又不能挪去做TPAS的補助也不能把砍掉司法院的錢挪去做這個以後租金補貼沒了被國民黨才化法這樣搞了也不可能這樣挪的嘛所以這邏輯也不通那講到數字跟提案的部分我還是就是就數字來做清楚的來大家分析一下"},{"start":10935.138,"end":10941.344,"text":"這一個司法行政向下總共編列的預算書是4億1900萬就換言之就4.2億那三個案呢第一案要減5000萬然後第11跟13分別動20%跟動10%加起來是動30%就是動掉1億2了"},{"start":10958.493,"end":10969.659,"text":"然後這邊砍5000然後11案再砍2000就砍7000所以呢整個司法院的行政加凍結加砍掉的話會只剩下兩億三"},{"start":10971.796,"end":10997.805,"text":"只剩下2億3在司法行政可以用那剛剛那個羅志強委員您真的辛苦了因為你要替黃國昌講你要替他圓實在是蠻辛苦的剛剛就以你的第11案來講我也非常關心稅務行政事件審理法可是您剛剛黃國昌說的要求偶要增加開公聽會然後公聽會呢這個更要擴大公開透明這些需要人力物力還要再舉辦"},{"start":10999.125,"end":11011.43,"text":"那鼓勵他舉辦就是要給他預算讓他辦啊結果呢你要他做一堆事情然後又砍了他的預算4.2億砍掉剩下2億"},{"start":11014.389,"end":11040.686,"text":"三,然後再動,啊對不起,砍七千萬,然後再動一億二,就等於剩下兩千三,兩億三他怎麼做事。所以,剛好就好了啦。我是覺得這個有點下手太重,而且不合理,我覺得重點就是在不合理。那沒關係,尊重這個提案委員,我們,因為羅志強委員今天真的很辛苦啊,替不在場的黃國昌說明他的提案,那就保留吧。"},{"start":11042.486,"end":11044.73,"text":"好,那麼要繼續補充,來羅委員請,辛苦了。"},{"start":11048.496,"end":11075.663,"text":"當然還是非常謝謝這個吳世耀委員的指教啦但是我要特別講一件事就是說基本上國家財政就是一個大的餅嘛那所以換言之預算如果能夠尊潔當然是國家這個餅那就是可以就有更多充裕的一個資源使用所以到這個對於我們吳世耀委員那個意見我是有點保留啦所以預算的尊潔這件事是通案的啦也不是只有司法院大家請請請慢慢好"},{"start":11077.303,"end":11106.062,"text":"第二,本來在政府部門的績效管理上,確實有兩個思路。剛剛吳世耀委員說,做不好要趕快把做不好的做好,所以我需要更多錢。這是一個思路。所以公聽會辦得哩哩啦啦,那黃國昌委員有意見,他就說我要減煉瑜。他說沒有,你這樣不對,辦不好要辦更多,辦更好,所以他需要更多錢。但是有另外一個從績效管理的角度來說,那這樣不是鼓勵他辦不好嗎?"},{"start":11107.503,"end":11126.854,"text":"愈辦愈爛錢愈來愈多像我之前在這個質詢這個陸委會是我也在講嘛陸委會都自己承認海基會的辦的業務愈來愈成果一直在倒退但他預算竟然捐助要增加40%那我就說一般的我們講一般的民間部門如果這個機關的單位的那個績效太差"},{"start":11127.734,"end":11144.015,"text":"一般就是說那我就是為了要對你要做一些所謂的督促嘛包括說你的預算簡列所以我倒覺得說預算簡列的方式其實也是一種督促好也是一種督促但是我不敢講說一定是吳士堯委員對還是我的方法是對的或是黃國昌方法是對的"},{"start":11144.736,"end":11167.379,"text":"但是這兩個思維同時存在那就讓這個民眾來去判斷那當然我也必須跟司法院的講一下就是說那你們在預算溝通部分可能再跟黃國昌委員再多做溝通然後因為反正如果假設待會是保留的話還會進到協商嘛所以有些東西你們到底要怎麼樣展現說今天"},{"start":11168.38,"end":11181.487,"text":"過去黃國昌委員覺得你們沒有做好的部分我們司法院就是可以透過檢列以外的方式能夠做得好那就是這個司法院的說服的工作所以以上大概是我的一個補充 謝謝"},{"start":11183.592,"end":11183.632,"text":"議員們的表達"},{"start":11204.773,"end":11221.896,"text":"那些相關的支印他有的是屬於一次性的比如說招標採購有的是屬於逐月支出的那如果是屬於逐月支出的凍結額度如果佔比例較低那也是說前面的時間逐月支出的還可支印"},{"start":11222.637,"end":11240.792,"text":"如果是屬於一次性支出的,那凍結的部分會整體的影響到無法做照表採購的指引。那提醒機關代表,後續如果遇到凍結案,建請你們說明的時候,要將這個部分分別做詳細的做說明。好,那本案我們就保留送學商。"},{"start":11242.762,"end":11254.019,"text":"好那麼接下來呢第14、15、16剛剛已經宣布了已經是改組決議第17案是羅遠的提案那麼您這裡好像有些調整是不是要做說明"},{"start":11255.589,"end":11259.531,"text":"其他委員對於本案您說是檢列改為檢列50不再凍結那這個項目可以參閱我們第17案預算書頁這是39頁"},{"start":11281.3,"end":11298.509,"text":"那他的原預算的編列是450.450萬那請問其他委員有沒有要表示意見在預算書的第39頁的第38項辦理院外聯繫考察及新聞聯繫這個剛剛不是有類似的預算在討論嗎?那個因為我們剛剛有一個關於新聞聯繫的部分前面是做保留"},{"start":11316.755,"end":11340.379,"text":"那麼他是在38、39因為剛剛做保留的是39項這裡面呢是一個是司法政策對外溝通宣傳語情收集那麼這目前我們這七案是就這個院外聯繫考察及新聞聯繫那麼那請機關代表明確的表達你們的意見"},{"start":11345.83,"end":11360.176,"text":"那是38的好,所以這個38的你們是怎麼樣接受檢列50萬好,那基本代表已經明確說明同意檢列50萬那我們本案我們就同意檢列50萬科目執行調整"},{"start":11365.542,"end":11391.71,"text":"18案已經撤案那19、20、21、22剛剛也都是保留送國外旅費保留送院會協商23案是改組決議那麼24案的部分我們進行到24案那麼24案跟27案我把後面的因為都是後面的電腦資訊部分那提案的委員到29案"},{"start":11396.569,"end":11420.696,"text":"二十四案到二十七案,我們就並同來處理。那二十四案到二十七案目前有二十七案改為主決議,是羅委員的,確認吧。二十五、二十四、二十五、二十六分別是羅委員還有林委員跟謝委員,但是先請羅委員做說明。"},{"start":11424.532,"end":11425.833,"text":"二、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會提出書面報告,使得動之。"},{"start":11450.998,"end":11475.115,"text":"我們先處理二十四案。二十四案改為不檢列但改動結兩千萬,兩個月內提出面報告後使得動之。好,我們委員會所確認。好,那麼確認的話,那我們第25案是林委員的部分,那邊因為有翁委員跟羅委員在場。請問。二十五案。"},{"start":11480.56,"end":11485.046,"text":"那麼目前的修正是改動100萬提書面報告史的動肢是因為他剛剛的意見好像跟那個委員的是一樣的好那麼那個請問代表我們第25案動100萬"},{"start":11498.861,"end":11523.661,"text":"不檢列動100萬提出面報告後使得動之確認喔好那我們就確認接下來是第26案那麼26案提案委員目前是有羅委員在場那麼是不是羅委員這裡我看到的是寫動700萬提出面報告使得動之請問羅委員"},{"start":11525.689,"end":11543.745,"text":"應該也是司法院及協議委員一起講的嘛。好。那麼我們第26案就動700萬提書面報告後,二、兩個月內提書面報告時的動之。好。那27案已經報告過了,改為主決議。好。那我們第一幕的部分,我們做個整理來跟委員會做報告。好。"},{"start":11550.629,"end":11560.537,"text":"那麼第一幕一般行政提案案號第二案至27案其中第5、12、18測案第8、14、15、16、23、27改為主決議第二至4案、第6案、第9至11案、13案還有19案保留送協商然後19、20、21、22也是保留送協商"},{"start":11579.335,"end":11600.364,"text":"接下來第一幕一般行政向下業務會委辦會之凍結三十二萬四提書面報告經同意後使得凍之第一幕一般行政向下辦理電腦資訊作業凍結兩千八百萬提出書面報告後使得凍之然後"},{"start":11603.859,"end":11624.561,"text":"檢列50萬本目檢列50萬科目自行調整接下來我們處理第三目審判行政提案案號第28案至第36案請看28案那28案的部分呢因為這邊已經看到委員簽名吳委員同意改為主決議"},{"start":11626.479,"end":11651.329,"text":"那麼第29案提案委員吳委員簽名同意改為主決議那麼第30案提案委員有包括陳俊宇委員林淑溫委員這裡面有文字修改改為書面報告他是凍結20萬改書面報告後提出時的凍支請問委員會是否接受那如果沒有問題我們"},{"start":11653.564,"end":11671.613,"text":"他要回來嗎?好,那我們因為有幾個案子我們先處理32案委員同意嗎?好,那我們先處理32案32案是由黃委員提出那麼羅委員在場那這裡是要檢列1000萬棟30%請田安委員做說明"},{"start":11676.184,"end":11702.153,"text":"事實上介於法院辦理強制處分的審核成效不彰甚至有一些違反相關規定導致縱放特定權貴我們希望這樣的一個提案能夠讓司法院來督促檢討改進所以檢列一千萬凍結百分之三十這是我們這個提案的說明事實上我剛剛講了我就直接講了"},{"start":11702.973,"end":11719.597,"text":"之前那個臺南地議院陳起玉這個我們在這個要求羈押被那個裁定駁回那引發所謂的臺南院檢失核等等的重大的爭議那這個在臺南的那個地方法院經常出現這種類似的狀況"},{"start":11721.678,"end":11747.654,"text":"那所以這個部分的話對於說今天重大犯罪到底我們今天有關於強制處分的審核的部分我們司法院是不是應該有一些怎麼樣去督促或怎麼樣去了解他的審核的成效那不然對於國人來說的話其實是非常妨礙國人對司法的信心那同時也可能助長今天權貴犯罪的這樣一個問題以上"},{"start":11751.414,"end":11751.975,"text":"總委員表示意見"},{"start":11775.089,"end":11798.518,"text":"並凍結30%檢列1000萬例差不多25%了這個是覺得比較不妥的原因我可以瞭解你的感受你說臺南的院檢怎麼樣這是呈現出來這是一個現象但問題就是說在司法審判實務裡面你是要求說司法院要去督促法官"},{"start":11799.896,"end":11814.153,"text":"這個是我倒認為這是非常不妥很困難我們一下子要求他審判獨立我們又用預算來卡司法院說司法院你來叫法官你來怎麼看因為民粹因為社會上嘩然因為怎麼樣"},{"start":11815.414,"end":11833.955,"text":"很困難我常常看到很多裁定或者判決社會法案的一些案件可是你去把它細讀除了那個法官非常混否則你看他在說理的過程裡面邏輯的脈絡他非常嚴謹可是呢"},{"start":11834.696,"end":11847.405,"text":"偶爾會有一些案件啊,會導出那個結論非常荒謬。會。我不否認會有這種狀況。可是呢,辦理法案再辦理強制處分,我們去講說它這個成效不彰。沒辦法量化。沒有一個標準。"},{"start":11853.018,"end":11864.242,"text":"我們一直在講說法官不予就法官就你就把你的見解放在你的判決書裏面就好那我們現在又有一個就是說立法院這邊要求說你要成效要漲這要怎麼看你說這個就要計啊打到你馬英九的時候你一定跳起來打到柯文哲的時候民眾黨一定跳開當然在國安阿扁我也跳開那同樣的事啊"},{"start":11883.117,"end":11895.199,"text":"啊所以說這個是我們個人的個人的期待會有不同但是法官的部分是不是我們也在給他一個獨立的空間啊怎麼判判下去喔"},{"start":11896.719,"end":11916.851,"text":"這個人如果是指標性人物的話各有支持者這個就是我們在這一次的法律在我們在修這個限訴法你們一直在強調說大法官沒有民意基礎我一直跟你們講說大法官不能去看民意基礎哪怕總統是有台灣最高的民意基礎憲法法庭都可以去彈劾他"},{"start":11918.031,"end":11935.896,"text":"那個不是在講民意基礎,因為你說強制處分的案件我可以瞭解你的感受,但是其實不要用說因為他的成效不彰,沒有那種成效不彰,你如果給予人權的保障該放人的你硬要去壓他"},{"start":11937.626,"end":11964.824,"text":"這也好像也不對所以我是覺得司法院的部分罵歸罵啦,罵完就好了啦該給他們支持還是要給他們支持啦我這樣的說理我希望那個羅遠可以接受啦因為我們確實在立法院我們應該好好去要求因為名字名高嘛我們本來這個預算裡面本來就是我們國會要去審可是呢這麼脆弱的一個司法機關我們要他好的時候"},{"start":11966.186,"end":11974.746,"text":"稍微拿捏一下啦,不要給他剪裂啦,應該是給他們多一點鼓勵,然後多出他們啦。以上,謝謝。"},{"start":11976.411,"end":11994.407,"text":"好 謝謝我跟委員會做個說明目前本幕第三幕審判行政的部分分別有兩個檢列案其他的是凍結案凍結案的部分我們待會會整幕處理檢列案的部分剛剛32案是檢列一千萬另外33案已經改為檢列兩百萬一般來講"},{"start":12001.073,"end":12020.213,"text":"三十二或三十三我們待會在處理的時候會一併討論那因為剛剛羅委員針對三十二案有表示意見那我們就請你羅委員表示意見來請我覺得各有其理啦那我的建議就是說要不要就保留好然後到協商裡面那到時候再看大家怎麼針對這問題再做更細部的討論以上"},{"start":12023.595,"end":12038.647,"text":"好那麼各位會員報告我們現在處理的是32案那接下來會處理33案另外呢有30案31案跟34案分別是凍結案那我們待會會一併處理提案委員稍後那我們先處理33案那33案是謝委員"},{"start":12042.669,"end":12059.65,"text":"提案,他們他簽名是說改為簡列兩百萬,那委員會這邊是建議說,是不是跟委員建議齁,這個兩百案就並同三十二案的簡列案啦,並同處理。齁,那因為三十二案是保留送院會協商嘛。"},{"start":12060.612,"end":12089.659,"text":"那麼要不要司法院及法院代表說明一下就我知道你們是同意檢列兩百萬但是兩百萬呢我們的處理方式上會回到第32案在因為只有兩個檢列案那會在第四幕的時候是第四幕的院會協商檢列的原則好那如果你們同意了那未來本幕的檢列案至少是兩百萬因為你們同意嘛所以至少是33案的檢列案是至少是兩百萬但是呢"},{"start":12090.851,"end":12101.379,"text":"如果三十二案的檢列金朝野協商超過兩百萬那就依其數額來決定那這個部分請機關代表再三思案因為有吳市長委員要發言我們請吳委員發言"},{"start":12105.892,"end":12119.16,"text":"我很難得省司法院預算我要有計算機在旁邊因為實在砍得很重的才4200萬的預算Total要減掉1000加200減掉1200萬你就剩下你就剩下3000萬然後還要再凍結30%就是再凍1200多萬所以你整個"},{"start":12129.887,"end":12135.27,"text":"有關於這一個辦理刑事審判你只剩下1700萬可以用欸你只剩下1700萬國家對於刑事審判尤其我們打炸司法一堆案件天啊剩下1700萬所以秘書長這邊有可能你在其中一案同意減200欸你要用總體來看啊"},{"start":12159.676,"end":12183.189,"text":"所以我是覺得萬萬不可啊我從來沒有看到司法院的預算是砍成這樣動成這樣我從來沒有看過這不是報復是什麼這不是鬥臭司法院是什麼當然這要協商保留但是我每一幕我都會做這樣子的提醒"},{"start":12184.534,"end":12211.631,"text":"不要只看單案單案,砍個一兩百,不要緊你擦起來你整幕剩下1700萬可以用欸開什麼玩笑?立委要這樣惡搞嗎?珍貴的司法資源我剛剛已經講了我國的司法預算只有總預算的一趴遠低於世界進步國家的二分之一都不到請大家三思"},{"start":12214.226,"end":12238.259,"text":"好那在這一半我回應之前剛好本席有一個提案是在36案因為都在第三幕當中那因為那個文字上那麼因為我有跟范委員這邊跟委員會說明36案的文字部分這是凍結案的部分因為本來是寫提專案報告並經同意後那本席同意改為提書面報告後使得凍支"},{"start":12238.999,"end":12260.955,"text":"那請機關代表注意,凍結案有的是跟本席的提案一樣是提書面報告後,使得凍支。有的是寫提書面報告經同意後,使得凍支。有的是提專案報告後,使得凍支。這三點在預算審議的凍結上的效力是不太一樣的,解凍條件是不一樣的。請審酌。那現在請機關代表綜合剛剛的簡列案,3233進行說明。"},{"start":12269.94,"end":12291.8,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":12293.851,"end":12313.47,"text":"好,那麼所以我們確認第三十三案並三十二案保留送院會協商一個是檢列一千一個是檢列兩百那其他的凍結部分是不是他們都已經不列入了嗎?他們都是只有凍結數嘛我再確認一次三十二案檢列一千萬沒有凍結數"},{"start":12315.703,"end":12333.104,"text":"送院會草野協商,32案他只有檢列200萬並沒有凍結數,同樣是並32案送院會協商。謝謝。接下來我們處理的是第30案、第31案、第34案。那麼分別提案委員都有包含的林淑芬委員,請林委員發言。"},{"start":12334.916,"end":12360.578,"text":"三十案是這樣子的因為我其實不想說可是因為我們當時司法院就有很多為改革而改革比如說像商事法院像是少事法院那以少事法院來講的話其實是為成立而成立我們應該讓民眾使用司法制度的這個可敬性要提高那在現在每一個法庭裡面都有這個少事法庭每個法院都有少事庭"},{"start":12361.178,"end":12379.599,"text":"可是你現在為了成立一個少數法院然後要幾個縣市公用其實讓他的可敬性會降低同樣的我們講商事法院也是同樣為了成立而成立結果本來設兩個現在還才成一個才成變成只有一個庭而這個庭永遠都是這三個法官在審理全國的商業事件"},{"start":12380.6,"end":12398.07,"text":"那這種東西其實大家都知道重大的這個商業事件到這裡來就這三個所以我們想這是不是另外一種形式的壟斷那是不是這三個法官擺平了就可以其實大家都有一個疑慮那當時就是為了設立而設立所以其實在實務面很多人其實覺得說這樣的東西應該有待檢討到底是要存還是廢但我也不是說存或廢的這個意見我們希望你們說已經到了一個"},{"start":12407.315,"end":12433.985,"text":"司法院應該要對現行的制度要做一個體檢到底這樣設立下去這樣號稱的改革真的是對的方向真的是實務面是最好的嗎所以我們已經達成這個共識他們同意凍結書面只有20萬而已然後專案報告我們也同意改成書面報告但你提出來的這個制度面的檢討要送到立法院來以後我們希望經同意後時的凍支他們同意"},{"start":12435.338,"end":12459.829,"text":"請問林委員因為是有三個案你都一併說明完畢了我一併說明好了那第31案就是我一再講的這個民事交通事件交通事件都改成民事檢議庭去審理檢議庭一次審理為原則那而且不管你及時及商那個事實的鑑定能不能直接在一次審理的時候就結束第一個第二個對於文化資本經濟資本"},{"start":12460.93,"end":12461.15,"text":"司法院函送財團法人"},{"start":12483.147,"end":12496.441,"text":"司法院會講說那他可以申請改為通常審理不一定會檢疫審理可是通常審理的這個決定權是在法官可是這個法官檢疫庭的法官如果他自己改成通常審理檢疫庭的法官自己要負責通常審理的程序"},{"start":12498.723,"end":12512.947,"text":"等於說就人性上檢議庭的法官要搬石頭砸自己的腳然後所以這個東西對檢議庭的法官來講是不堪負荷的所以我們也接到很多的檢議庭的家長法官的家長打電話來說這個問題從來沒有被討論因為他們的兒子在檢議庭裡面一個月要審100多件然後沒有放假他看了這個家長都覺得說法官怎麼會當成這個樣子所以我們認為說你這個"},{"start":12525.83,"end":12549.017,"text":"當初硬要修法把所有的交通事件的民事訴訟都改成檢疫審理這樣子改得太簡單了我們至少你是不是能夠應該要分級你有死重傷的重大傷殘的有死亡的案件的或人數是達到一個什麼樣案件其實不應該一律改成檢疫審理所以這個事情真的是需要"},{"start":12551.178,"end":12578.568,"text":"檢討這制度面本身運作起來就已經出問題了他沒有辦法確保當事人的權益而且有階級的不公平性所以我們希望他要提出檢討那所以當我們同意預算凍結數下降將這個凍結數改成百分之八那他們要提書面來但是要經同意後使得動之我都談的是制度面實務面大家認為不行的這個對當事人的權益這個而受到很大的侵害的"},{"start":12580.194,"end":12589.406,"text":"三十四案就是現在最糟糕的因為每個人都進行司法程序在審理當中我們剛剛講到進行程序當中已經在審議的就算了"},{"start":12594.753,"end":12598.577,"text":"因為這個案件是因為醫療糾紛醫療糾紛的訴訟醫糾的訴訟首先要先醫療鑑定可是現在所有的訴訟第一關醫療鑑定通通都沒有辦法進行因為這個訴訟的程序卡在我們也是修了一個刑事訴訟法刑事訴訟法修法要求醫療糾紛的鑑定"},{"start":12619.136,"end":12639.323,"text":"都必須以自然人的狀態去署名那那這種狀況所有的醫生醫神會的醫生都聚神那本來法律還規定說你個別醫生也可以鑑定啊醫學院也可以鑑定啊醫院也可以鑑定醫學會也可以鑑定但是通通沒有人要受理鑑定而且大家都仰賴醫神會醫神會也拒絕鑑定所有的醫療糾紛數百件而且到現在幾個月數百件未來如果不解決的話"},{"start":12647.085,"end":12667.003,"text":"你會讓醫療糾紛的訴訟沒有辦法人民沒有辦法救濟停擺一年兩年三年四年下去這個最爽的是誰第一個法院的法官因為法院的法官沒有案件可以審理因為他沒有鑑定檢察官沒有辦法起訴沒有辦法到法院所以法院的法官很輕鬆司法院也很輕鬆不用審醫療糾紛的刑事訴訟案件然後再來醫生"},{"start":12671.767,"end":12692.082,"text":"醫生沒有人願意審議沒有人願意做醫療糾紛的鑑定所以醫生被告的醫生也很爽因為你的案件沒有辦法審議所以就停擺在那裡我本來以為是社會的精英兩大勢力法界跟醫界自然主的第一名跟社會主的第一名在那裡鬥法"},{"start":12692.742,"end":12712.615,"text":"後來想一想不對他們兩個是獲得最佳利益的醫生被告的人也不會被告法院案件很多的也不用審理所以這樣停擺下去唯一的受害者叫做人民那我們已經溝通一次溝通兩次溝通三次他們都提不出任何狀況然後那個刑事廳聽他們就說這個司法院就說這是因為醫審會都是因為衛福部的問題那衛福部針對這個司法院所稱的衛福部的問題他有來跟我講本來"},{"start":12722.602,"end":12736.197,"text":"司法院說我們盡力去溝通了而且我們取得醫師全國聯合會的同意他們提出的解決的方案就是說具名的方式用代號代號到時候可以比對"},{"start":12737.678,"end":12761.711,"text":"他說全聯會沒有反對他們同意但是事實上全聯會以外他們11月29日開了一個形式鑑定諮詢會議邀請了台灣高等司法精神醫學會衛福部、法務部、高等法院、高檢署代表就提出他們說他們跟醫師公會獲得共識的折衷作法"},{"start":12763.737,"end":12784.802,"text":"司法院的講法是說獲得大家的肯認那事實上衛福部告知我們不要說獲得大家的肯認會議的現場連檢察署在最高等檢察署在會議中都認為司法院所提出的行政程序不可行然後再講就是說為什麼那個衛福部"},{"start":12785.702,"end":12790.604,"text":"認為他們所提的方案不可行還有幾個原因啦。據名拒絕的方式,法務部說你可以復券密封啊,那你出席的時候可以遠距離詢問啊,不用本人到場啊,那也可以採取適當的隔離措施啊,那兼顧法治的精神和實務所需。"},{"start":12804.028,"end":12816.553,"text":"那衛福部跟那個一一事工會聯合會他們的回應是如下第一個復券、密封、遠距詢問或其他適當隔離措施沒有辦法提高鑑定委員會參與鑑定的意願因為進入法庭的時候律師也會交叉結論"},{"start":12822.796,"end":12823.197,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":12840.999,"end":12859.885,"text":"司法院提出說保障這個當一鑑定人的權益是保障在他修正刑事訴訟鑑定心智問答集連行政法規都不是還有一個法院辦理刑事訴訟案件應行注意事項至少有一個法規他用法規裡面去"},{"start":12861.425,"end":12874.735,"text":"提出了這一些保護措施,但是法官：這個衛福部他們認為,法官你是依法獨立審判,你修正問答集或是因行注意事項,這一種法規,類似司法部門的內部的行政指導的方式,你怎麼有辦法去約束和強制法官獨立審判的這個基本,"},{"start":12884.642,"end":12884.762,"text":"有有有有"},{"start":12913.917,"end":12926.641,"text":"他沒有辦法阻卻這個案件的關係人請人家去關說請託或者是不利於己方的鑑定案件關係人可能會對鑑定人進行騷擾或報復最後我講最後一句話因為我先做誠意宣告因為本上午會議進行至議程所列事項均處理完畢為止"},{"start":12935.284,"end":12945.971,"text":"謝謝委員的體諒因為剛剛委員一直在發言當中所以不便打斷但是因為實在是需要讓委員會可以知道下一步的處理謝謝委員各位的體諒另外請繼續我再講最後一點就是說在訴訟的新制裡面"},{"start":12951.354,"end":12956.536,"text":"而衛福部和所有的醫師他們都認為說沒有妥適配到的情況下要求本部醫審會的醫事鑑定貫徹證據原則你看起來好像說確保了法院的審判權也確保了當事人的訴訟權但事實上你運作起來是讓已經陷入沒有人任何的醫生願意擔任鑑定人而無法釐清事實真相的窘境"},{"start":12974.781,"end":12983.727,"text":"我講我的結論我個人的看法我不支持醫師我也不支持法官但是我們在乎的是人民的訴訟權益當事人的救濟管道要能夠進行要能夠審理醫療糾紛不能這樣子擺爛下去我不管你醫師是怎麼樣這個法院是怎麼樣但我們就是當事人權益要被確保可是你現在變成這種僵局沒有辦法解決"},{"start":13000.299,"end":13007.325,"text":"多少的人的權益在那裡被你們犧牲掉他連審理都沒有辦法審理如果你的家屬如果你的家人遇到了這個醫療糾紛你要去訴訟你沒有辦法審理停擺一年兩年三年我們作何感想所以今天在這裡我們與眾心長我沒有要凍結你的預算為目的我也不想要砍你的預算但是我們希望是你要告訴我們怎麼解決這個僵局這個僵局不解決我就認為"},{"start":13028.743,"end":13046.69,"text":"是這些法院得利被告醫師也得利只有人民受傷害大家扪心自問你們都沒有家屬嗎?你們都不用看病嗎?大家都保證不會有醫療糾紛嗎?這樣子搞下去到底要怎麼解決?你告訴我們而當初在修法的時候"},{"start":13047.53,"end":13062.497,"text":"剛出在修法人家就語重心長衛福部也告訴你們說此案這樣修正下去會造成沒有人願意當鑑定人結果司法院立法院在這裡一意孤行強硬要闖關過去過了現在就是這副窘境你們放了火要怎麼解決你們要出來操屁股啊"},{"start":13069.62,"end":13070.3,"text":"所以這個案子我們還是認為要凍結,而且凍結的數目應該要多一點,4000多萬,我們要凍結400萬。"},{"start":13094.643,"end":13107.508,"text":"那個不要三分之一啦十分之一啦你不是三百萬還是四百萬他本來是我是凍結三分之一啦那你後來是說要趕三百萬嗎四百萬啦十分之一啦四百萬對啊因為他騙我們啊"},{"start":13110.322,"end":13125.604,"text":"其他331我們就照當時談好的條件他只要願意做我們都沒關係但是這一個案件對人民權益侵害這麼大到底要怎麼解決主席你也才示一下叫他們趕快作為"},{"start":13126.946,"end":13152.644,"text":"好,那麼在委員跟基金會代表回復之前我先做一個說明首先呢剛剛在第三幕正在審查當中的第36案那麼經提案委員同意後改為主決議在這裡做一個更正的宣告那也剛剛在座會議時間的原行宣告耽誤了一杯咖啡的時間請謝謝委員會包容那接下來呢我再提醒一下剛剛的30案、31案他是在我們預算書的"},{"start":13156.587,"end":13168.275,"text":"第44頁是屬於01辦理民事審判行政,那剛剛林委員講的第33案是在預算書的第44案是在預算書的第43頁"},{"start":13173.979,"end":13190.371,"text":"45頁是辦理刑事審判,雖然在同一幕下,但是兩個的預算不同。那麼民事審判的總預算呢,預算書是寫了466萬9千元。那麼林委員的提案分別是檢列20萬元跟檢列"},{"start":13193.573,"end":13218.744,"text":"凍結20萬元跟凍結34萬2千元那至於說林委員的第34案在刑事審判的部分呢是編原預算編列是4214萬那麼林委員要凍結的是400萬以上說明那我看到有莊委員舉手是不是莊委員先發言我再請機關代表說回命好謝謝莊委員謝謝我想司法院確實應該"},{"start":13220.985,"end":13239.001,"text":"說明一下啦齁那因為023這去年的修法那今年開始施行以後啊你造成了整個你說我們本來在刑務書法第208條的規定是說你的地檢署或者法院你說主定這個"},{"start":13241.343,"end":13267.43,"text":"拜託這些鑑定機關來做一個鑑定完你就鑑定人簽個名本來就本來認為就是有證據可是實務上你去實行完以後那你變成你這個一審會這個地方你要他你要他你主託委託他鑑定的他不鑑定他把你退回來那確實跟當初修法"},{"start":13269.841,"end":13296.229,"text":"會認為說一個制度讓民眾的一個輸送權的一個設計或是感受到比較溫暖那變成說都已經就變成這個制度實現的結果跟我們當初設計的一個目的就落差太大司法院這個地方是不是看要如何改觀因為司法院應該針對這個有沒有"},{"start":13299.01,"end":13315.103,"text":"聽長你們針對這個部分我記得我在司法法制委員會裡面我就聽到好幾位委員這樣的提過這相同的一個問題那你們是不是把你們有研議的初步的讓委員會這邊來做一個說明好不好"},{"start":13317.247,"end":13338.815,"text":"好 那麼待會兒機關代表說明的時候 因為我們都是凍結案 然後請注意 那麼林委員的提案 他是分別在民事審判向下分別凍結20萬及34萬2000提書面報告經同意後時的凍支 那另外在刑事審判的部分林委員是要求凍結400萬"},{"start":13340.676,"end":13354.769,"text":"提書面報告經同意後使得動之。後面還有35萬還沒進行。因為那是邵家審判的部分。我們先就這民事、刑事的部分請機關代表說明。"},{"start":13359.949,"end":13383.514,"text":"主席,各位委員,謝謝委員的承詢。我可能要先跟委員說明一下,我們並沒有跟委員說有說謊的情形。貴府部當時在12月29日那一天的開會,他們的確有表達沒有完全同意的立場。至於高檢署或是法務部檢察司派的代表,"},{"start":13385.894,"end":13397.087,"text":"的確有肯認我們這樣的做法就是說用蜜蜂或是姓名對照表的方式來保障那個所謂鑑定人的個人資料的方式來進行那208條這個機關鑑定的部分當時的設計是為了國事會議的結論那希望說"},{"start":13404.855,"end":13418.424,"text":"被告在接受鑑定的時候可以對鑑定人做一定的結論來辨明他的鑑定能力或是證明力這個部分那我們依循這個國事會議的結論來做刑事訴訟208條的修法因為之前很多的冤案或是比較不適當的案件的判決結果民眾為什麼沒辦法接受是因為說在鑑定的時候不曉得要找誰來結論因為他做的鑑定有問題或者是有什麼疑慮的時候"},{"start":13434.059,"end":13443.446,"text":"被告或是辯護人沒辦法去結問他因為他都不具名甚至我們法院希望傳鑑定人來做結問的時候也因為具名因為沒有具名不曉得要傳誰然後詢問一審會或是其他監禁機關他們也不願意告訴你說這到底是誰做的鑑定所以在在很多的冗長的訴訟程序中發現有這樣的問題也導致有一些"},{"start":13458.718,"end":13462.26,"text":"司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":13478.496,"end":13487.642,"text":"我們提出了草案那委員也支持我們這樣的看法那也許大家對現在實務上發生的問題覺得需要再檢討我們也做了一些相關的配套所以我剛剛如同委員所講的我們在注意事項或是包括問答集裡面或包括鑑定人的禮遇方案裡面我們又做了適當的修正我們就是"},{"start":13499.75,"end":13527.455,"text":"基於為了保障鑑定人的人身安全或是他的相關的個資所做的一些調整當然我們會跟我們的所謂的審判的法官來跟他們做宣導說明基本上鑑定的是我們的協力的是要給我們做一些審判上的協力他並不是我們的被告那當然我們要對他特別的履歷他提供一些意見給我們讓我們做一個事實上一個正確的判斷這是非常需要的事"},{"start":13529.571,"end":13537.093,"text":"好 謝謝那麼林委員請這樣他終於第一次說他的爭點在哪裡他為什麼當初要修法他說因為不曉得要找誰結問那麼你在現在你就應該是說找醫審會找衛福部來討論這種不曉得要找誰結問問責於誰的這一種制度要怎麼討論啊你們就這樣直接說你就叫他鑑定了醫生簽名就好了可是醫審會是何意志"},{"start":13556.118,"end":13561.361,"text":"他出見的那一個醫生的意見不一定會被醫審會肯認醫審會在醫師出審以後他是合意制所以合意的過程大家都可以修改修正甚至不認同出審醫師的意見那在這種狀況裡面我們也同意這樣的證據力到底是要問責於誰那我們就應該去找衛福部找醫審會的人家講說那到時候你們醫審會這種制度要問責於誰我們要找誰來結問"},{"start":13585.093,"end":13593.599,"text":"今天是這樣去解決只有你們就直接說管你的你就給我醫生簽名我要求你醫生簽名我把法律改下去就好了結果大家都在那裡"},{"start":13595.202,"end":13598.966,"text":"在那裡僵局,我現在不問,我不認為衛福部就完全是正確的,我也不認為衛醫審會全部都正確,但我也不認為說你們講的不正確,但是我現在都不管這一個,現在造成僵局,整個制度無法運作,然後人民的救濟管道阻塞,權力受損,那我們要怎麼解決?"},{"start":13616.545,"end":13634.853,"text":"我不認為衛福部全對喔!醫審會全對喔!我不認為你們全錯喔!但是我只要你們給我一個答案怎麼解決啊!我已經講了我自己講的都已經快要半年啦!好幾個月啦!沒有一個人可以告訴我怎麼解決!那那些訴訟的當事人更是心急如焚欸!"},{"start":13638.123,"end":13648.839,"text":"你不要再講過去怎麼樣怎麼樣你為什麼我也不要講說我們醫生為什麼不我們都不想聽這個我們想聽的是怎麼解決你告訴我們"},{"start":13650.603,"end":13651.524,"text":"好,那麼翁委員表示意見,請。"},{"start":13675.29,"end":13696.565,"text":"是我想我們今天是在審預算喔林淑芬委員提的這些問題喔其實可以在這個其他的這個日子質詢或者說是我都質詢過了我都質詢過了就直接提修法吧我都質詢過了要修法不是說我修就好了修法也要參考我修了法律他們可不可行啊我意思講說我們現在審預算就是審預算我現在提凍結案啊"},{"start":13698.906,"end":13713.212,"text":"你現在糾結在剛才吵架的情緒裏嗎?你剛才糾結在中共代理人的情緒裏面嗎?你就是為了反對我而反對我你顧及一下訴訟當事人醫療糾紛的訴訟當事人的權益好不好?你在這裡就會認為我可以討論嗎?我就是藉由審預算在跟他們講這些解決的方法你講話就可以"},{"start":13726.118,"end":13731.181,"text":"拜託你自己講話,別人跟我講話你認為訴求方式人的權益不重要嗎?你認為醫療糾紛的權益不重要嗎?"},{"start":13743.868,"end":13751.314,"text":"就是為了反對林淑芬嗎?反對林淑芬嗎?你還糾葛在剛才尊重委員的情緒啊?我們請尊重委員的發言喔?對,我們...那個...那個...是不是喔?司法院這個地方...那個...莊委員...現在是委員在發言啦..."},{"start":13767.765,"end":13779.109,"text":"現在是發言當中請大家喝了咖啡稍微降溫一下我們便當請開始散發是請後委員繼續請後委員繼續所以他發表了他對於這個預算的看法然後講了很多跟醫療訴訟當事人的權益的問題我都尊重他那為什麼我在發言的時候他可以不斷的這樣子打斷我的發言"},{"start":13792.762,"end":13797.323,"text":"我們請翁委員繼續翁委員繼續發言要不要直接就那個預算的部分表示意見好不好"},{"start":13822.731,"end":13824.272,"text":"我真的認為我們司法法制委員會裡面"},{"start":13838.379,"end":13852.27,"text":"大家都還是會談民主法治素養的對不對然後來了一個外面的委員然後來這邊干干干擾來干擾好我先說明一下目前我們在審的是刑事審判行政那麼是凍結400萬的預算提議那請換委員繼續"},{"start":13857.11,"end":13864.614,"text":"我的意思是講說剛剛的討論其實他可能涉及到修法或是應該是要在其他的質詢的場合裡面再來進行好好的討論現在是在講那你到底要不要凍結他的預算嗎"},{"start":13872.398,"end":13874.501,"text":"所以講了半天然後那個這個相關的廳長處長他們也都已經回復了那我在發言的時候為什麼可以讓林淑芳委員這樣打斷我對我認為說招委我覺得招委其實應該是要"},{"start":13889.246,"end":13900.977,"text":"主持主持一場的秩序不是每次這個我們國民黨委員在講的時候你看是請尊重其他委員會好不好那個委員你同意我再做個處理好不好我現在處理是這樣啦我們委員會今天的預算審議我們"},{"start":13906.202,"end":13932.49,"text":"主席這邊就盡量尊重委員的發言那委員的發言的部分我們也時間上的充分那我們今天是進行預算審議難免委員在進行預算審議的表達的看法是否是跟本預算的處理有相關我想我們尊重各委員的判斷那我們也希望說發言的時候委員就是針對對本預算他的處理方式表達一個具體的看法"},{"start":13933.451,"end":13935.637,"text":"那剛剛林委員的具體看法,因為剛剛行聽的"},{"start":13939.22,"end":13966.679,"text":"禮院理聽長已經表達了那麼林委員也表達了那目前我們所談的34案目前林委員的具體提案是凍結400萬那提書面報告後使得凍支那剛剛翁委員應該是對這樣的一個處理方式因為沒有聽到他對這個處理方式的意見那我現在要請機關代表明確的剛好提醒了因為目前該向下的預算是4214萬"},{"start":13968.88,"end":13970.621,"text":" ．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":13991.192,"end":14018.376,"text":"一次性採購的要不受影響那你們分月執行的就會受到壓縮那這個壓縮的金額是400萬那麼請那個機關代表就這個部分委員提案要求凍結400萬的部分表示意見這個這一項目通通都是那個分次的沒有一次執行的400萬就大概就是你們到明年10月的時候就會受影響了"},{"start":14019.684,"end":14021.405,"text":"好 那你們自己衡量啊那不然我先問一下那民事的部分剛剛有兩個民事的30跟31案我們同意好 那麼30案我們凍結20萬提書面報告經同意後使得凍支因為你們那個項目是466萬"},{"start":14046.045,"end":14058.601,"text":"另外,第31案是凍結342,000元,也是提書面報告,經同意後,使得凍支。這個你們確認你們是接受的。接下來是刑事廳的部分。"},{"start":14068.482,"end":14092.195,"text":"委員,這三十次案可不可以維持原來的,然後我們努力...三十次案,你們都考慮到你一年的這個業務能不能順利的進行,可是你有沒有考慮到現在已經幾百個人他的救濟管道完全停擺,然後他的權利受損,你有沒有想到你自己,你有沒有想到這幾百個人未來還會累積到幾千人,真的這樣下去沒有任何案件可以審理。"},{"start":14092.975,"end":14109.97,"text":"沒有任何當事人的權利可以被保障所以我就想400萬其實對他們來講應該是不影響如果沒有壓力的話他們不會不會想要認真的去跟衛福部溝通不會認真的想要提出解決的方案就是提修法也是要修啊"},{"start":14112.605,"end":14132.221,"text":"委員這個部分我們上次已經允諾就是說我們會持續去溝通那是不是可以...你已經持續溝通從委員會諮詢、院會諮詢我已經講了在你們委員會裡面至少講過三次、四次諮詢過三、四次了仍然沒有進度你就只告訴我們會持續溝通結果你持續溝通半年了都沒有任何進展否則我不會提預算案凍結"},{"start":14137.264,"end":14155.588,"text":"好,那個基金會代表再思考一下,我再跟您委員確認一下,因為您的30案、31案,您的標定對象都是跟商業審理有關,那您認為這20萬跟34萬2000要並計還是分計?因為在同一幕當中。不是,它一個是大象裡面,一個是業務費裡面。一個是業務費。"},{"start":14159.048,"end":14185.476,"text":"對啦一個30是在那個他們都同意啊30是在審判行政裡面20啦那那個百分之八的是在業務費審判行政的業務費的裡面好一個是在業務費的42萬427萬4千那一個呢一個20萬的是在在這個審判行政大小大大大大客戶因為我們業務會就是427萬"},{"start":14188.186,"end":14213.132,"text":"好,那我們就把它加總就是54萬兩千你要把它放到大的審判行政裡面因為它的項目就是這樣子好吧,不是啦,它是不一樣的行政我知道您說這個但是我們預算書商的處理就是共計是凍結54萬兩千元那這個項目是466萬9千元不是,它全部是多少錢,它整個審判行政"},{"start":14213.955,"end":14230.014,"text":"對,他的民事審判行政總共是466萬9千那目前你兩案合計是54萬2千超過一成那請機關注意一下好,那麼請機關代表就那個34案的部分表示意見"},{"start":14231.068,"end":14251.619,"text":"我們同意委員的提案好那麼34案呢我們就凍結300萬400萬400萬提書面報告後使得凍支經同意後提書面報告經同意後使得凍支好那接下來我們第35案翁委員3233已經保留了對請看35案翁委員"},{"start":14259.396,"end":14269.506,"text":"這個案子是吳宗憲委員提案因為我聯署所以我幫他說明這個案子因為這個114年度的司法院的預算那在"},{"start":14271.219,"end":14296.019,"text":"這個辦理邵家審判行政這個涉及到精神衛生法有關專家參審制度相關條文他其實他的這個施行日期應該是還沒有公佈對不對還沒有決定嘛所以這個制度其實在明年度仍然是處於舉辦模擬法庭工作小組會議等研議階段那麼可是呢他在執行這個像制度的這個費用編列卻編了2623萬"},{"start":14300.342,"end":14308.706,"text":"事實上經費過高已經不合理而且2623萬裡面又有房屋建築養護費竟然佔整個經費的61%也編了1600萬左右的費用所以這個費用跟專家參審制度其實也不具有關聯性"},{"start":14324.682,"end":14328.245,"text":"因此提出要凍結該項預算20%,也就是要凍結1472萬等司法院三個月內提出書面報告後才可以凍支"},{"start":14340.782,"end":14358.388,"text":"好謝謝翁委員那麼向委員提醒我們處理的是35案在預算書的頁次是第46頁是屬於辦理少年及家事審判行政他的預算編列是編列7362萬7千元那那個委員的提案數是要凍結20%那凍結數應該是1472萬5千元"},{"start":14368.834,"end":14372.428,"text":"好 那麼有沒有其他我要詢問 那如果沒有我們就請機關代表回應"},{"start":14374.919,"end":14402.57,"text":"在這裡說明一下就是說這個精神衛生那個法律這個部分已經通過了雖然說那個施行日期還沒有那個定那這一個就是說他通過之後的這個法庭呢他跟我們傳統的這些訴訟那個整個法庭是不一樣的譬如說他要連線到醫院就是去連線到醫院端這個地方有醫生還有那個病人那還有就是說這一個他要做那個專家參審"},{"start":14403.911,"end":14432.45,"text":"所以說他需要的這種法庭場域跟我們現有在法院裡面的這個法庭它的結構是不一樣的也因此呢就是說這個1800多萬是我們就是要來進行就是有六個法院的一個場域的一個改善那個工程啊所以說這整個對於就是說他的那個法庭還有評議室跟參審委員的那個休息室還有那個病人的那個等候室這些那個場域呢都要整個做那個規劃跟那個重建"},{"start":14433.971,"end":14461.606,"text":"所以1800萬是做這一個雖然說一定要在就是說真正run之前的時候先把這個法庭建制那個出來所以就是為什麼還沒有那個施行但是必須先那個支出這一筆那個費用然後再來就是說本來是預估是114年9月開始施行所以呢其他這個費用呢就包括了參審員的這個日費旅費住宿費還有這程序監理人的那個報酬以上報告"},{"start":14463.188,"end":14487.959,"text":"好 那麼跟委員說明齁 在我們預算書第46頁 那麼這一個項目呢 是列在預算說明欄的第8項它其中括號當中的房屋建築養護費1603萬3千元齁這是具體載明在委員的提案說明齁 所以委員提案委員要求這是針對房屋建築養護費"},{"start":14490.763,"end":14497.872,"text":"那麼所以呢這個部分如果執行的話那麼機關執行的話是要對是以凍結1472萬"},{"start":14503.512,"end":14525.231,"text":"的金額來要求對於房屋建築設備養護的1603萬3千元進行處理所以意思就是說委員雖然是對權數凍結20%但是他針對的項目是其中當然他是指名的當然他也包含了其他"},{"start":14525.971,"end":14539.848,"text":"所以這個就包含了16033千元所以這個部分還是提醒機關代表要說明你們哪些是屬於一次性的哪些是分期執行的那這樣20%的凍結數對你們的該項目正式的推動有哪些影響請說明"},{"start":14544.306,"end":14555.147,"text":"有關於這個法庭的部分他是一次性的但是我們必須先做規劃跟那個發包那所以說如果凍結的話到太晚的話這個我們就沒有辦法去進行"},{"start":14557.647,"end":14580.025,"text":"委員請發言因為羅委員跟翁委員也在場我倒對35案這筆預算會有不同的一個看法那我們現在就是說你在舉辦這個模擬法庭也好或者說你這個法庭建制完以後你該有的設備是不是我們給他支持"},{"start":14582.276,"end":14596.964,"text":"我認為應該支持你支持完以後你我像比如說司法法制委員會啊那應該是讓他們把這個建制完以後我們再去看看說他有缺漏的地方甚至於搞不好我們到最後去看我們會覺得說你為什麼變那麼少"},{"start":14598.965,"end":14616.631,"text":"你這個讓民眾進來或者說你要達到你原來規劃的目的的一個功能根本就不足搞不好我們還會要求他們去增加所以就是論事我來看這個的話其實這個也跟他們審判行政裡面涉及到的這個司法人員"},{"start":14618.071,"end":14625.637,"text":"：一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人"},{"start":14639.841,"end":14640.322,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":14659.626,"end":14680.358,"text":"是在哪個法院裡面要去做改善就說我還是認為說要提個書面報告了把你們整個規劃提清楚之後然後呢這個才才可以解鬥吧對而且就像我們剛剛講的因為你這個精神衛生法連施行日期都還沒有宣布"},{"start":14681.258,"end":14693.789,"text":"然後現在再做了這些模擬法庭工作小組其實那又回到像之前在推動國民法官法一樣就花了很多錢其實司法院已經聽了很多基層的這個法官司法人員在講司法院過去花了非常多的錢"},{"start":14695.083,"end":14722.995,"text":"去做國民法官把資源都去給了國民法官所以我認為說在精神衛生法這部分我同意你們這個可能必須要做一些法庭的改善可是我們要看到你們清楚的書面報告然後才能夠知道說你們這個之後的規劃而且你們預期什麼時候就要開始剛剛是說114年9月嗎"},{"start":14729.975,"end":14746.319,"text":"對不起,基金會代表,那個主席這邊做個處理。翁委員,謝謝。那這樣子啦,因為剛剛那個徵詢委員會意見,剛剛基金會代表已經說明了,他們本來的有個房屋養父是個新辦的工程,那要先做規劃。那麼因為本案雖然凍結數高達1400萬餘元,但是這個不影響他們的初期規劃。"},{"start":14751.32,"end":14773.088,"text":"那是不是就請剛剛尊照委員的意思提書面報告後時的動之那你們提了書面報告之後那麼你們後續的這1400萬如果要進行建築廳設的發包或裝修就OK是不是我真的委員會的同意我們本案是不是就凍結數的部分就是20%1492萬5000元那提書面報告後時的動之OK那個"},{"start":14781.591,"end":14809.194,"text":"對,原來天然就是這樣子而已,原來天然就是這樣子而已。那個委員會再說明。不是那個期程會不會受影響?因為剛剛交委的...你們要趕快動之就趕快送書面報告。那個期程...我們針對那個翁委員的那個指示齁,我們可以提三個月內提那個書面報告,詳盡的,但是我們建議改成那個主決預標動之啊,因為就是說他馬上就已經要那個...你們提書面報告齁,就可以動之了啦。"},{"start":14810.303,"end":14836.94,"text":"提出面報告的動作,你們越快提就越不受影響啦還是跟你們說明啊,你們提了就不受影響了對啊提書面了,好OK好好那麼我們這個本案齁就動20%提書面報告後時的動作齁對啊沒有提書面報告欸你們越快提你們就後續就可以經費就可以使用齁"},{"start":14838.732,"end":14844.365,"text":"好 那我們好像都已經處理了齁 來第三幕審判行政提案案號第28案至第36案"},{"start":14846.38,"end":14874.67,"text":"第二八二九三六改為主決議第三二三三保留送協商其中第二幕審判行政向下辦理民事審判行政凍結五十四萬二千元辦理刑事審判行政凍結四百萬元至提出書面報告經同意後使得凍支那麼另外呢辦理少年及家事審判行政凍結一千四百七十二萬"},{"start":14876.667,"end":14903.536,"text":"五千元是提書面報告後使得動之。那麼接著我們就來處理第四幕司法業務規劃嚴考提案案號第37案至第39案。那麼37案的部分目前我們手上看到的是吳思堯委員的提案改組決議。那麼第38案翁小林委員提案也改組決議。第39案吳思堯武立法委員的提案也改組決議。"},{"start":14905.137,"end":14932.557,"text":"好,那麼請問第4幕的部分是否委員都同意?同意。好。那接下來呢,我們第5幕的部分,那麼第40案的部分,羅委員的部分是改組決議。那41案翁曉琳委員的部分是要簡列。那麼42案也是黃委員的提議也是要簡列。那麼都是在交通運輸設備部分。那麼請提案委員說明。"},{"start":14935.407,"end":14947.804,"text":"好,那麼41案主要是針對司法院要汰壞兩輛的首長專用坐車可是到目前為止司法院還有首長專用坐車有16輛副首長專用車輛是一輛"},{"start":14950.788,"end":14971.206,"text":"那麼從11月開始即司法院現在還有7名首長也沒有出缺還沒未補啦那主要也還是考慮到就是經費尊潔原則那麼認為其實沒有必要要購置車輛所以我這邊提案就刪減就整個這個減劣預算拿152萬"},{"start":14978.041,"end":15004.437,"text":"那那個黃國昌委員黃國昌委員跟我這邊的提案那理由跟汪小雲委員差不多啦但是黃國昌委員的提案是簡列數是265萬全減謝謝喔全數簡列啦就是好那麼其他委員有沒有要做補充的詢問那沒有我們機關代表請說明第41案42案在預算書第49頁"},{"start":15007.952,"end":15029.937,"text":"是屬於交通機運輸設備部分來請說明我是司法院秘書處長楊思璇報告我們明年度要汰換的是兩輛公務車那一輛機車那兩台公務車的話到明年都是到達汰換年限滿10年那行駛里程也滿了12萬5000公里"},{"start":15032.057,"end":15046.168,"text":"我們要汰換的是油電混合車不是電動車另外有一台是機車那一台機車的部分我們已經使用滿13年了已經超過年限昨天去跟油油委員討論的時候他請我們改為燃油動力車我們會遵照辦理也請委員支持雖然我們現在的大法官還沒有拍滿但是按照新修過的限速法兩個月內還會再補"},{"start":15061.34,"end":15088.68,"text":"正在我們幕僚單位的立場我們還是要把我們的那個所有的備援都做到充足以上報告機關代表有做預算內容的說明但是我提醒司法院那麼對於三如通過的法律案在經公告實施前那你們到底是根據什麼樣的現況在進行預算的編列自己要審酌"},{"start":15092.79,"end":15097.313,"text":"那麼請秘書處處長這邊要注意那請機關代表說明你們對於明年要汰換的首長坐車有兩個簡略數那請說明我們這兩個簡略數是只要機關代表是王副長說明還是要繼續處長說明你們現在是認為我們馬上"},{"start":15119.98,"end":15146.731,"text":"我們的首長用車是15名大法官現有8名剛剛羅委員帶王委員的提案是認為就8名不知道什麼時候可以再回復到15名不知道那這個我可以理解羅委員他們的說明因為現在的情況就是8名那多久之內會有多少名的大法官是否如秘書處長說的兩個月內"},{"start":15149.278,"end":15171.635,"text":"目前該法尚未公告實施那你在影劇的時候要特別留意副秘書長你要不要做一個澄清是 這個車子是明年編列明年的那個車子齁那所以我們當然是以就是說滿額的15名大法官跟那個現有的那個首長就是來做一個編列的好請五位人發言對"},{"start":15177.496,"end":15205.832,"text":"我反而認為這個主席您剛剛的提醒是有必要但是您的提醒也剛好可以問這個提案的委員剛好就是翁小林委員跟那個公民黨的委員因為就你們提案通過的限訴法裡頭是要求在第四條的第三項要求要在兩個月去補提名這也是你們提的條文換言之你現在砍了這完全就砍掉了"},{"start":15206.861,"end":15233.979,"text":"但是你們提的法不也要求總統要補提名嗎?那會不會邏輯上就是說我們都希望大法官該補期就要補期那我們在做的很多的這個預算的編列都是以現在憲法所規定的大法官的緣額去做準備嘛也不會說現在沒有補期要大法官的那個辦公室就關起來然後什麼東西都把它砍成這個剪掉七份我想也不是這樣啦"},{"start":15235.02,"end":15259.549,"text":"那一這個剛好就提案的委員在這裡你們提的是就是總統就是要補期嘛那這也你們的限期要求補期嘛那再提名啊補提名齁那但是你預算砍了就是全砍啦這個是不是有矛盾的地方這個反而是要就叫這個提案的委員好謝謝那個先是羅委員再來是先是翁委員再羅委員那在羅委員發言之前齁"},{"start":15260.815,"end":15282.542,"text":"主席再次提醒機關代表我們現在在審預算我們預算是根據機關原額所編列目前司法院的首長屬於首長的機關原額是依憲法規定大法官15名這叫做法定原額也是司法院的機關原額"},{"start":15284.616,"end":15302.927,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分．一、繼續審查司法院"},{"start":15308.018,"end":15320.607,"text":"那麼就由司法院自己評估那委員主張就編制員額可能用不滿要就預算員額進行檢列這是委員的主張請機關代表要致重"},{"start":15325.441,"end":15345.281,"text":"我們現在提案刪除兩輛首長公務車並不會讓未來大法官全部滿之後讓他們沒有車用現在司法院政府首長加大法官的公務車有17輛"},{"start":15348.396,"end":15352.559,"text":"有17輛所以就算是這個夏年度沒有貸換兩輛他們仍然是有車可坐而且還多兩部車所以在這裡要講的就是我並不是說因為他們已經15輛了或是只有13輛了我不准他再買多兩輛不是那個意思再加上現在這個岡吳士堯委員講說現在大法官"},{"start":15378.908,"end":15382.15,"text":"司法院的副院長辦公室有運作嗎?要請機關代表回覆嗎?"},{"start":15406.424,"end":15412.43,"text":"司法院副院長辦公室有運作嗎?主席承接沒關係,大家會一起回應好了。據我了解現在司法院的副院長辦公室不是都沒有運作了嗎?秘書長現在是由副秘書長來代理秘書長現在不是也是空的嗎?秘書長是?"},{"start":15431.499,"end":15446.336,"text":"然後這個副院長辦公室的人員跟秘書長辦公室的人員也都打算到其他的廳處去服務所以有需要這個有這麼多有需要用再多買兩輛車嗎"},{"start":15449.502,"end":15476.468,"text":"沒有必要啦 對不對你站在這個經費的尊潔的立場人民的納稅錢還是很重要要節省的用所以我主張還是要刪除兩輛公務車的預算好跟委員報告目前我們在處理的是司法院一編制緣額所提出的設備太新案那因為目前的編制緣額並未用滿"},{"start":15477.779,"end":15503.963,"text":"不管是大法官還是秘書長或副秘書長至於委員提出如果目前機關的預算因編制原額未滿因此就不影響的話是主張將預算原額核實或者依需要來做編列那接下來我們請羅委員"},{"start":15506.519,"end":15525.599,"text":"我認同主席講其實這個跟憲法輸送法的修正沒什麼關係啦為什麼呢我先講幾個狀況就是實際上車一定夠用啦那我覺得我們立法院也行之多年就我們立法委員其實也沒有專用車立法委員就是大家用立法院調派嘛"},{"start":15525.819,"end":15548.679,"text":"我覺得這個制度蠻好的一方面節省公帑另外一方面實際上我們的需求也能夠照應得到所以第一個當然我也不是說大法官就不能用專用車但是事實上以大法官目前的狀況來講的話他也確實可以透過調派的方式來去讓大法官的車輛的需求還是可以得到滿足以目前的狀況來講"},{"start":15550.182,"end":15579.532,"text":"那第二就是說事實上你現在就是一定說滿10年就一定要換那車輛的使用的部分完全沒有這個彈性也未必是完全沒有彈性所以說雙重彈性加起來這是我們今天為什麼希望說今天司法院也可以考量到我還是講嘛我們現在民進黨政府一直說財政困難啊這個我們要好好的找錢啊對不對然後那民眾當然也希望我們錢是花在刀口上"},{"start":15580.114,"end":15594.781,"text":"那既然在立法院那個立法委員實際上過去也行之有年不是用專用車的方式大家實際上就是公務車一個破了嘛那有需要就去調用那我覺得也這運作得也蠻好的啊對那這種情況之下我覺得大法官"},{"start":15595.761,"end":15598.002,"text":"其他委員有沒有意見?接完代表是否同意簡列?"},{"start":15634.417,"end":15660.376,"text":"因為這兩輛車子除了就是說已經建滿10年就是超過公里數12萬5千它最主要問題是現在那個故障情形很嚴重所以說每年要花的那個修的那個費用就是超過這一個成本了對好我主席在這邊比較有點做一個比較"},{"start":15662.843,"end":15667.483,"text":"要保留是吧?好,那麼有委員同意?好,保留,送院會協商。"},{"start":15676.035,"end":15693.184,"text":"好,我們第五目一般建築及設備提案案號第四十案至第四十二案第四十案改為主決議第四十一、四十二保留送協商接著處理第七目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助提案案號第四十三案、四十四案目前我們是到"},{"start":15705.56,"end":15720.042,"text":"第七幕的部分有翁委員的提案要凍結一千萬那麼也有吳委員的部分已經改為主決議那請問翁委員做提案說明"},{"start":15721.795,"end":15740.32,"text":"是,法扶的預算這次是編列了15億可是我們看到其實法扶的財務結構其實也年年都出了一些問題而且應該是說法扶的經費年年提高而且大幅的提高"},{"start":15740.86,"end":15761.693,"text":"那就整個財務結構的話其實是需要調整之前在立法院曾經有要求這個法服的財務結構必須進行調整而不是都只是靠透過司法院來補助那再更何況就是我們看到這個也是之前才有人在講就法服呢基本上去幫助"},{"start":15762.794,"end":15767.837,"text":"司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會"},{"start":15793.354,"end":15809.962,"text":"因此在這裡的話就是提出凍結法律預算一千萬然後等司法院要就法律的這個整個的他的處理結構各方面提出專案報告後才可以動之好請基金代表說明董事長請"},{"start":15822.731,"end":15845.532,"text":"有關那個本案就是關於就是說我們的法護會的那個預算是不是要從怎麼樣去用增加來本金的補助的部分來處理這個問題那事實上法護會的那個本金的部分依照規定是100億那目前是來到38億"},{"start":15848.354,"end":15876.82,"text":"我們對這個38億呢我們都是放在定存上面就是我們的幾個銀行的定存所以現在的定存率這麼低所以在38億的話每年真的從這個利息之息來的數字沒有辦法去支持法服的運作所以就是說這些年來呢就是說這運作呢就是由司法院來捐助的方式捐助給法服"},{"start":15877.88,"end":15896.767,"text":"我們這些年來所接受的所謂行政契約的部分,我們跟勞動部、內政部、衛福部都有行政契約的關係。所有行政契約的收入是從司法院的監助的金額扣下來的。"},{"start":15897.947,"end":15915.777,"text":"所以就是不可能在這種行政契約的情況之下會增加法扶自己運作的基金所以這是目前的法扶基金的收入跟支出的情況那報告如實好謝謝董事長的說明那請問委員有沒有其他的詢詢那來那個吳委員"},{"start":15925.495,"end":15935.032,"text":"我想大家一定都是絕對支持法服然後來幫助很多經濟弱勢尋求他司法上的救濟協助"},{"start":15936.9,"end":15961.007,"text":"那看到翁委員這個提案是心情有點沉重啦因為剛剛就董事長的說明就是說他的本金就到38億你只能靠非常微弱的這個利息因為我們不可能叫法服去炒股票嘛我們不可能法服也沒有錢去買土地嘛他也不可能去有其他的這個盈利的可能嘛"},{"start":15961.707,"end":15986.408,"text":"所以大家這麼多年都是在慘淡的經營非常辛苦的支持但是更重要的是幫助經濟弱勢的公民然後國民去尋求他法律上必要的協助這是人權嗎那現在如果說對於法服的預算要給他凍結我覺得對於法服是個打擊"},{"start":15987.708,"end":16012.423,"text":"好那我相信委員們沒有人不支持法服所以請委員對於這樣子的提案因為您的提案是是足以是更希望它能夠穩定它的長期運作可是您現在採取用凍結預算的方式我看來是讓他們雪上加霜所以這個部分是請提案委員、溫委員確實應當好好去思考"},{"start":16013.682,"end":16036.475,"text":"這樣的提案我是認為如果說你們提案委員需要針對法服未來的強化他的長期運作的穩定性要要求他們再提什麼報告這個尊重但是用一個凍結的方式我要再次強調法服真的是產貸經營蠻辛苦的啦那多思考一下好嗎"},{"start":16037.901,"end":16057.129,"text":"我想這個對於辛苦的第一線人員不要造成這種大家看起來蠻傷感情的那因為有那個莊委員要第一次發言我們請莊委員謝謝莊委我現在看就是2023年法府將案件的前五名第一名就是"},{"start":16058.357,"end":16074.839,"text":"消費者債務的清理的部分就佔了一萬多件。詐欺背信的就是將近六千件。那清潔行為就五千多件。像這一些羅志強委員應該各位議員也很清楚啦。這個有時候到我們服務處去。"},{"start":16076.397,"end":16099.529,"text":"你說委員律師都是錢啦那法服的部分啊那其實就對於民眾來講那真的是有需要啦除非我們真的是說想法有什麼其他更好的一個辦法啦所以我在這邊啊在歐美人這我不知道律師給不出喔你找過那些給不出喔常常都會碰到這種案件"},{"start":16100.734,"end":16108.326,"text":"真的是有需要,所以在這邊也跟司法院有關啦,所以拜託法府趕到機器啦好不好。好,謝謝委員,那請。"},{"start":16112.353,"end":16136.881,"text":"我其實非常了解法扶的基金會的貢獻還有他們過去對於扶助弱勢族群所提供的法律的扶助可是事實上我們可以去檢視其實法扶現在提供的這些相關的經費補助也不見得完全都是針對經濟弱勢"},{"start":16139.389,"end":16144.932,"text":"司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案關於司法院函送財團法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案關於"},{"start":16168.366,"end":16173.21,"text":"給予他法律扶助而是要符合比例原則更何況我們有發現其實法扶基金會他有一些的費用去捐助去做什麼給一些什麼民間團體或是"},{"start":16183.837,"end":16186.14,"text":"參與其他的給予一些協會來幫出書啊或是辦什麼座談會啊不是就幫那個什麼廢死聯盟又出了書對不對是很多的費用這個要"},{"start":16202.743,"end":16226.839,"text":"復合你法律扶助基金會這個經費使用的目的所以呢我們也是看到就是法扶基金會那麼他在這些年來他有些使用項目是不合理的不合理的而且必須要進行檢討在151里所以而且我現在只是凍結預算1000萬要請他們要做這個專案報告之後那麼才可以凍值我覺得這樣的要求也不為過"},{"start":16228.305,"end":16250.051,"text":"好謝謝翁委員那麼這裡特別主席這邊特別跳脫來跟委員會的各位委員做一個請求因為就法扶基金會因為國民法官法通過之後那麼國民法官法過去是因為犯罪致死的就會到法扶這邊來那不管這個被告"},{"start":16250.771,"end":16277.667,"text":"他本身的資歷財力如何他的犯行如何惡行重大只要是進入國民法官法做審理那麼法輔呢他就有資格來申請法輔的扶助那因為這樣的關係啊我們會看到本來法輔他過去給人家印象是對那些弱勢的被告對那些因為資歷經濟資歷不足者採取援助但是由於國民法官法的施行之後"},{"start":16278.447,"end":16298.322,"text":"那麼過去還是以犯罪致死為國民法官的審理範圍從明年開始最重本刑10年以上就要列入那最重本刑10年以上的這個被告刑案被告可能形形色色可能包含了違反職務收賄罪"},{"start":16300.023,"end":16322.915,"text":"那除非法律修改這些人不管他是大富豪還是升斗小民他依法都可以請求法律扶助基金會的一個法律資源的協助做辯護那我顯瞭解各位委員對於社會上所瞭解的接受法律扶助的人不是我們通常概念上的經濟弱勢者這點一定很不平"},{"start":16323.675,"end":16351.888,"text":"但是因為法律上不能因為少數的經濟強勢者或是經濟犯罪因為受國民法官法的審理那我們就剝奪了其他的弱勢的被告他請求法律扶助的這樣的法定給付的這樣的權利那因為法律扶助基金會現在還遇到一個情況就這些辯護律師在受理國民法官法的辯護的時候他們的給付金額是遠低於市面上一般律師受理國民法官法案件"},{"start":16352.668,"end":16378.953,"text":"所以其實我所知道法律扶助基金會要找到律師去承辦國民法官法的訴訟案件已經很難找人了那最近這幾年有大力的提高拉大辯護律師的幾副項目但事實上就一般通俗的一個了解一個國民法官法的案件的辯護律師一般的行情大概就20萬以上但是目前我們法律扶助基金會大概最高最高到7萬多"},{"start":16380.313,"end":16397.294,"text":"那在過去去年我們本席也提出過一些今年也提出過質詢那法律扶助基金會也盡量的願意來調高但我要強調一下之所以國民法官法的辯護費會這麼貴是因為他要集中審理因為國民法官他不可能分散在一年兩年來出庭"},{"start":16398.976,"end":16408.224,"text":"所以目前我們的法院的配置跟相關的工房我們都是在兩週內至少一個月內就結束避免擔任國民法官他本身他的其他的生活的經濟的影響那我還是要強調一下明年開始連最重本營10年以上的都要列入我們國民法官審理對象也必然的會接受法扶基金會這邊他有權利來要求提供法律支援在這種情況之下"},{"start":16426.88,"end":16451.977,"text":"我們法律扶助基金會所編列的預算司法院這樣的編列情況就本席來講都過低那如果我們再與凍結可能會招致那些真正經歷弱勢者因為進入國民法官的審理對象不管他所犯的犯刑我們外觀上是如何的不可接受但是依法依憲法在被宣判有罪之前他就是無罪的推定我們就必須給予他國民"},{"start":16452.877,"end":16466.376,"text":"法律扶助的必要的協助所以在這裡還是懇切的我很少這樣用主席的職務就個案內容來拜託各位委員是不是我們國民法律扶助基金會的預算盡量的能夠予以成全"},{"start":16467.062,"end":16483.716,"text":"那這也是為所有所有在未來我們不曉得誰自己的親至親好友會不會因為這樣的關係而需要法律扶助基金會的協助所以在這裡真的要懇謝拜託提案委員是不是能夠審酌法律扶助基金會預算多餘支持我真的再三的拜託謝謝"},{"start":16489.286,"end":16517.24,"text":"首先當然沒有人否定法律扶助的重要性剛剛我們莊委員提到我們在當市議員的過程當中其實民眾確實有很多法律上的需求那很多也需要法律這個扶助的這個服務但是我要特別講就是說我從一個個案開始講起就是說之前那個施奪獎女老師的這個凶殺案"},{"start":16518.752,"end":16527.863,"text":"那這個凶犯五度判死然後最後大法官實質廢死判決出來之後馬上就免死確判"},{"start":16529.059,"end":16549.899,"text":"那他的家屬有一段很沉痛的一個陳述他說是讓在法院上一直都孤零零的對面坐的就是三個廢死的律師在為死刑犯在座辯護而受害者家屬卻得孤零零的沒有得到任何的援助"},{"start":16550.78,"end":16569.518,"text":"那我要講什麼當然我不是說今天死刑犯就不能夠有法律扶助任何的有對任何的我們講說在刑事上的話法律扶助他有一定的項目嘛但是我要講這橫平性在哪裡我想也是文委員這次提案的一個重點這重點一啦"},{"start":16570.559,"end":16599.178,"text":"第二,正因為法律扶助基金會這麼的重要,他的經費這麼的重要,所以我覺得正好是一個適當的時機,讓他來我們立法院做一個專案報告。他到底是怎麼樣使用這個經費,他怎麼樣分配這個經費,他怎麼樣去聘請他的所謂的律師。那這些都是在在應該更有好的方式來透明化,讓大家更清楚法律扶助基金會的一個運作的狀況。"},{"start":16600.439,"end":16624.287,"text":"更何況我跟各位講實際上法扶基金會他預算要增加一億要增加一億溫委員其實說實在話他是支持這個基金會運作的為什麼你明年要增加一億你看溫委員提的是什麼凍結一千萬這總經費不過百一百分之一百五十分之一啊"},{"start":16625.56,"end":16652.975,"text":"一百五十分之一到底對你法律扶助這也只是凍結案不是檢列案所以我講的關鍵在哪裡就是說基本上大家在如果熟悉立法院的運作我們有很多種審議預算的方式其中尤其是凍結案他往往不是真的要去刪這個相關單位的預算而是對他預算的資用的過程當中我們覺得有必要跟全國民眾交代"},{"start":16653.78,"end":16680.981,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":16681.101,"end":16701.313,"text":"在現在1億15億的經費的規模之下真的不是一個在刁難法律服務基金會的一個提案反而我認為是讓法律服務基金會到底做了什麼事情更加有個透明化的機會所以我是還是支持我們問委員的提案以上好代理主席我請嘉賓委員發言"},{"start":16702.403,"end":16723.246,"text":"好 謝謝我非常可以體會翁委員跟羅委員對於在接受法律扶助的雙方兩兆當事人的處境分別有給予他們一定的支持我現在強調一下犯罪被害人的權益我們另外有犯罪被害人保護法所以呢我本席也是非常支持犯保法當中"},{"start":16723.886,"end":16741.834,"text":"對於法條的適用的範圍能夠盡量納入不只是受到性侵害甚至未來能受到性影響所遭到不法侵害的當事人的予以補償那麼這是第一個要先述明的就是說對於案件的兩兆"},{"start":16742.634,"end":16753.382,"text":"法律給予的保障在判決確定之前那麼我們對於雙方都給予平等的支持這是我們憲法保障人權平等的一個基本精神"},{"start":16754.335,"end":16775.947,"text":"第二個我要說明的是為什麼法律扶助基金會會再增加預算呢?因為國民法官法未來可以適用法律扶助的對象明年開始會擴大所以增加1億大概就考量到這些案件的需求我是要再提醒一點在過去國民法官法的施行期程當中已經有明顯的感受到的一個"},{"start":16777.295,"end":16795.111,"text":"議員．"},{"start":16795.111,"end":16815.213,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":16815.333,"end":16841.511,"text":"所以也才會有法律扶助基金會要增加預算這樣的一個要求不只是因為案件適用範圍的擴大也包含必須強化辯護律師應該強化的他的質跟量的這個需求所以呢我是覺得呢這個部分也是希望委員會能夠去理解的那至於第三個我個人也可以認同呢這個專案報告但是有幾個情況還是要先說明那麼如果這個案子呢以書面報告後"},{"start":16842.792,"end":16868.713,"text":"此的動之我完全競表同意那如果還是要維持專案報告因為下個會期因為兩個月內嘛下個會期是在二月中以後才會開議那換言之明年的預算之後那麼還要在下個會期的二月三月當時的召委能夠及時排案那我也不確定未來的召委能否排案那我也希望提案委員能夠如果你們堅持還是要用"},{"start":16869.454,"end":16872.976,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查司法院及法制委員會第12屆第13會期司法院及司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":16895.05,"end":16921.317,"text":"承諾在下個會期競速敦請召委來排案進行專案報告第二目前的預算增加不只是一個國民法官法的適用範圍擴大還包括過去施行期間這個辯解雙兆雙方的兩兆之間在資源上的不對稱所以需要擴大來支持那最後還是要強調一次我們如果對於犯罪的被害人我們覺得要予以照顧的話"},{"start":16922.037,"end":16929.239,"text":"那麼適宜的是在犯罪被害人保護法當中去強化他的保障範圍以上建請委員會明察好來吳委員我想這個剛剛鍾嘉賓委員講的就是考慮到我們接下來的預算會期接下來的會期"},{"start":16943.089,"end":16972.227,"text":"的時間怕兩個月給法服專案報告的時間過短那麼可能就是我這裡的話我可以就是同意三個月內或四個月內然後要向司委會提出專案報告後然後才可以動質我這是其實我只是凍結一千萬那麼我在看法服的預算的時候我有發現你們還要成立一個專職律師刑事辯護中心"},{"start":16973.303,"end":16993.377,"text":"還要給他們訓練可是你明明你法扶的律師你就是他三年之後把律師當完三年之後然後就才可以聘請他們這個作為法扶的這個律師也就算是這些專職律師在刑事辯護能力需要提升這也不需要有法扶來做這律師公會也可以做"},{"start":16994.765,"end":17021.962,"text":"對法務部也可以辦理司法院也可以辦理那為什麼需要法律扶助基金會來成立花那麼多錢然後來成立這個中心我記得好像花上億是不是上億的金還是幾千萬的金費來成立這樣的一個形式辯護中心我認為說你們不需要擴大你的業務這些事情可以直接由這個律師公會跟他們溝通協調然後請他們那裡辦理就可以了"},{"start":17023.928,"end":17043.648,"text":"謝謝不好意思那麼吳委員之後請董事長做回應謝謝請吳委員我是建議說43案如果可以的話應當把它改組決議這是我的建議因為我自己的44案就是用組決議的方式來處理那我對於法服要協助法服的制度更"},{"start":17045.249,"end":17072.935,"text":"競盡那我有具體的建議的方向啊諸如我在質詢也多次提到現行的這個法律扶助的籌金給付的方的辦法那他確實是偏低那你對於這個法律律師所投入的心力真的是很難成正比啦所以這就是一個循環嗎所以說你更會因為他的籌金偏低你律師去參與國民法官案件好未來的意願的話"},{"start":17074.175,"end":17075.996,"text":"議員：一、繼續審查司法院第11屆第2會期司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會"},{"start":17097.583,"end":17107.97,"text":"然後讓你們有所依據去研議可行或不可行那我自己對於法服的預算的44案我就試圖用這樣子的方式我認為要提高這個法服律師的這個籌金給付的辦法才能夠達到剛翁小玲委員說的那個本金不夠啦未來能不能夠永續穩定啊這些"},{"start":17120.539,"end":17146.058,"text":"這至少是我的自我要求啦所以如果可以的話因為我一直沒有對這個案子我已經改成主決議了但我還是爭取一下機會來做一下說明我也希望司法法制委員的這個我們提出來的建議方案盡可能是更為具體然後我們才能夠跟司法院之間彼此有一個更正向的交流"},{"start":17147.098,"end":17174.523,"text":"這是我認為我能夠有一點小小的協力跟貢獻的地方每一個立委都一樣所以我再次希望對於法律的預算不要用凍結的方式我個人期待這真的我在想很傷感情的對這些這樣協助的協力的幫助經濟弱勢的這些律師我覺得情何以堪啊所以我再次做這個發言我希望預請是不是能夠改成主決議就好"},{"start":17175.943,"end":17175.963,"text":"謝謝委員們"},{"start":17203.021,"end":17216.234,"text":"我當先講結論我就當說能夠進入主決議如果不行的話我們希望用書面報告的方式那我想就是不是凍結而是就是說用一個"},{"start":17218.556,"end":17241.297,"text":"就是用一個我們來書面報告那如果那我想在這裡我必須先說明了一下就是說為什麼法服的費用會一直提高我們從這法從國民法官制度國民法官法制度施行以後呢我想各位如果有看那個那個紀錄片的話你會看到真的是"},{"start":17242.438,"end":17258.105,"text":"就像我當時在跟許院長講的就是說檢方是非常強有力的一個組然後院方也非常強有力那我們的辯護律師的部分呢因為我們台灣的大的律師事務所實在少的有限"},{"start":17259.145,"end":17273.766,"text":"那麼所以當我們在指派律師的時候呢很可能就從不同的律師事務所去找結果這一找的結果大家可能知道就有一個案子明確的這兩位辯護人就在法庭上做完全不同的主張"},{"start":17274.927,"end":17291.123,"text":"所以會有這樣問題所以我們那時候我們一直在希望然後非常的難找到外部律師的協助所以我覺得說我們法部有義務來增加專職律師而且對這些專職律師做必要的訓練"},{"start":17292.564,"end":17309.32,"text":"這個就是說我們這一段時間有一個專案小組就是說刑事辯護的專案小組讓這法服的律師專職律師能夠有多一點的時間去研究去練習這真槍實彈的這種戰爭就是說法庭的審判"},{"start":17314.125,"end":17342.738,"text":"所以是這樣子過來的那為什麼會有這問題因為他本身是一個強制辯護的案子那強制辯護的案子呢我們目前的走向呢就是說我們希望就是說法院先從公設辯護人義務辯護人然後沒有的話當法院可以指定我們就是必須去把這案子扛下來那扛下來的話我希望是非常有效的好好的一個三個角的一個一個一個"},{"start":17343.678,"end":17356.634,"text":"告徒而不是只有院方跟檢方的一條線因為這樣會違反我們實施國民法官制度的一個最終的目的這就是我們所以費用會一直提高"},{"start":17359.498,"end":17385.681,"text":"確實我們為了應付明年開始的10年以上的重大案件的那個強制辯護的問題我們希望能夠成立一個刑事辯護中心刑事辯護中心裡頭會增加了大概17名的專職律師跟助理我們要把這個team能夠把它強化然後可以落實我們的那個刑事訴訟法的修正"},{"start":17386.241,"end":17412.015,"text":"所以這個是要一些費用在這裡謝謝謝謝董事長說明那麼這裡供委員會參考從2023年以來法律扶助案件第一名是協助民眾還債一共有10142件占高達18.35%依序才是詐欺、背信、民事侵權、傷害及毒品"},{"start":17412.677,"end":17430.229,"text":"那其次法律扶助案件有48%是協助經濟弱勢。那麼剛剛陳陸董事長說的是透過法院轉介的強制編務案件是佔了34%那如果說大家在其他的網路媒體看到有85%的預算是用在加萊蘭身上這樣的訊息是非常嚴重的偏離事實。"},{"start":17431.73,"end":17456.814,"text":"最後目前司法制度只要犯三年以上的重罪或身心障礙者原住民的身份都需要有律師辯護不然訴訟無法進行所以法院才會轉介這些強制辯護的案件那不完全是國民法官的適用對象更不要說明年國民法官適用對象會擴大我想這三點供我們委員會做參考最後還是再次詢問董事長是希望說本案能夠改列為書面報告"},{"start":17459.955,"end":17473.113,"text":"就使得動之,那麼委員有認為要維持原案交付協商,那請問委員會最後的決定是?好,那麼結案委員要求維持原案交付協商,那我們就做這樣的處理,好。"},{"start":17476.906,"end":17504.443,"text":"好,那麼第七目對財團法人法律扶助基金會捐助第44案改為主決議第44案保留送協商繼續處理第四款第一項司法院之主決議提案號第45案至第63案請各位翻閱參閱我們目前45案以作文字修正那麼請問委員都看到手上了那麼請問機關代表意見是"},{"start":17506.052,"end":17511.453,"text":"遵照辦理嗎?好遵照辦理我們45案照修正文字後通過46案請問機關代表46案好遵照辦理好我們就照案通過47案我們有文字修正請看文字修正的內容遵照辦理好那麼我們就照文字修正後通過48案有文字修正也是遵照辦理好我們48案照修正後通過49案有文字修正"},{"start":17537.588,"end":17556.141,"text":"好我們修正後通過第50案有文字修正好50案修正後通過第51案好51案照案通過52案好照案通過53案謝謝照案通過54案有文字修正好那麼修正後通過第55案有文字修正好"},{"start":17566.013,"end":17591.242,"text":"修正後通過56案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過57案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過58案有文字修正遵照辦理修正通過59案已經撤案第60案遵照辦理照案通過第61案撤案第62案遵照辦理照案通過第63案有文字修正遵照辦理修正後通過"},{"start":17592.588,"end":17607.854,"text":"好,那麼剛剛因為還有一個就是范雲委員的提案,剛剛雖然說有改為主決議,但是主決議的內容他是改為好像三個月是在36案的部分,是不是?"},{"start":17608.942,"end":17619.228,"text":"我想看到36案那個文字上有修正為2個月改為3個月好 那麼現在宣讀主決議提案案號第45案至第63案其中第46、51到53、60、62照案通過第45及47到50、54到58、60案、63案照修正後通過"},{"start":17634.818,"end":17647.144,"text":"那麼第59案第61案徹案那麼第四款第一項司法院處理完畢繼續處理第十項台灣高等法院第二目審判業務提案案號第64至第66案那我們就請翻到第60"},{"start":17655.111,"end":17666.577,"text":"第64案,第65案已經撤案,那麼第66案改為主決議,所以我們目前事實上要處理的就是第64案,有黃委員所提案的部分,那麼凍結27%,羅委員。好。"},{"start":17672.406,"end":17691.447,"text":"依據108年7月17日修正公布的刑事訴訟法116條之二第一項第四款法院許可停止羈押時經審酌人權保障及公共利益之均衡維護,認為有必要,得定相當期間,命被告接受適當之科技設備監控。"},{"start":17693.028,"end":17710.194,"text":"司法院依同條第五項規定會同行政院定定刑事被告科技設備監控執行辦法,但是即使司法院及法務部業以共同委託台灣高等檢查署於111年1月12日建置科技設備監控中心"},{"start":17711.034,"end":17720.665,"text":"各院檢機關命被告接受適當之科技監控案件依舊低落111年8案、院方5案、檢方3案、 112年30案、院方18案、檢方12案、113年截至7月底38案"},{"start":17728.334,"end":17751.479,"text":"那院方18案檢方20案司法院應該檢討改進提升使用效率以避免像七寶檢討這種事件一再發生所以這個提案凍結預算20%那等高等法院3個月內向司法法制委員會提出專案報告並經同意後實得凍結實際上它這個效能不佳我們在立法院預算中心"},{"start":17752.359,"end":17769.449,"text":"內部也有特別提到就是說院檢機關在開案使用的科技監控設備情形欠佳不利發揮設置效能所以我想這個凍結案也希望我們這個台灣高等法院這個部分能夠努力的能夠把效率做起來以上"},{"start":17770.49,"end":17793.256,"text":"好,那麼跟委員報告目前我們的預算書是編號四之十臺灣高等法院單位預算在第29頁其中底下02辦理刑事案件業務那麼它一共是刑事庭編列了6919000元那目前提案委員是要就這權額凍結20%"},{"start":17796.477,"end":17822.919,"text":"相當於一千三百八十二萬兩千元好請問有沒有其他委員詢問來莊委員請這個案子因為羅委員在場所以我才提出來講因為羅委員比較好溝通你看大家都給你這種很溫暖的笑聲你看你像譬如說法院在做這種強制處分的時候"},{"start":17824.929,"end":17848.919,"text":"我倒認為立法院好好去做一個思考為什麼說覺得這個不妥呢就是說他編了這2000多萬裡面2000多萬嘛是2162萬你去把它凍結20%你就是說叫他說你應該要科技就比較科技設備的一個監控你要把它做一個提高嘛"},{"start":17850.32,"end":17877.814,"text":"這看起來其實就是說啊不然人跑掉你怎麼辦看聽起來是對乍聽之下是對其實我倒認為是錯為什麼他錯所以你在要保全這個被告方法本來就是那麼多但是不是每一個案子你都要用電子監控的部分電子設備去做一個監控的部分要去把它做量化這也怪"},{"start":17879.38,"end":17892.546,"text":"要做專案報告我贊成但是這個預算的部分我們先讓他建制完成讓他建制完成以後我期待司法院提出跟立法院反對的見解我認為這不應該量化這個真的有人權的問題我們常常會因為個案"},{"start":17900.777,"end":17925.948,"text":"你會覺得不合理這個人那麼可惡這個人那麼討厭為什麼讓他給跑掉如果是你用大數據去把他撈你撈一撈你會發現台灣發生這種事情只是讓人家不舒服而已那我們我們真的是該保全的被告他跑掉的多嗎我也不認為你說很多人去當了被假設他變成了被告以後會逃亡的可能"},{"start":17927.168,"end":17948.087,"text":"原因很多啦原因會很多啦可是你也知道除非你就是不想接受除非你要跑到國外去嘛不然你不可能台灣你跑到深山去啊哪一天你會被逮出來啊天氣這麼冷搞不好你就凍死了啊你要跑到國外去你說除非都不想回來否則如果是一時性的要跑掉被抓回來如果說都還沒有剛起訴還沒審判的那個的"},{"start":17950.709,"end":17979.097,"text":"我想你當法官,任何誰當法官一定對你的放過態度一定會把你加重嘛,會把你加重所以我倒會覺得說我們支持他們支持他們那到底該不該量化哪些狀況之下都要用電用科技設備來去做一個監控這個可以討論喔可是我是反對當了被告以後全部都是要科技設備來去做一個監控因為這很難量化就比如我們兩個吵架等下你告我啦"},{"start":17980.521,"end":17985.707,"text":"你罵我我告你了然後難道我要求說羅志強電子科技設備要把他監控把他跑掉到處跑到國外去玩這也不行這就怪你太難量化那我當然知道說"},{"start":17994.782,"end":18022.507,"text":"這個提案人是針對社會上發生的這種事情會生氣嘛你這個人這麼可惡法院或者院方或者警方你就沒有好好把他給管束住讓他給跑掉這個確實跟國民的法律感情有衝突那可是你要把他去做量化以後是因為你沒辦法量化到哪些程度啊所以我倒建議我們給他支持事後針對這個我支持你"},{"start":18023.741,"end":18034.355,"text":"請他們來做專案報告但是要要求跟我們立法院相反的見解這才有意義啊不然我們用預算砍人家卡人家讓他們不得不屈服"},{"start":18036.147,"end":18054.347,"text":"這不對我們是憲政機關他們也是憲政機關我為什麼對司法院會比較一個尊重就是說這個司法我都認為我這幾十年我看都還是脆弱了就是因為還脆弱才給他們多一點的支持這麼明理的羅委員應該會大家給他們支持一下"},{"start":18056.651,"end":18072.158,"text":"我想羅委員迫不及待想要回應我還是提醒大家目前可以看我們臺灣高等法院單位預算書的第30頁在右邊的說明欄那其中有一個括號6在括號5的底下有一個尖銳括號6"},{"start":18073.439,"end":18082.391,"text":"它底下是寫辦理科技監控等業務委外經費2162萬5千元大概是我想本提案的內容是針對這個項目啦那麼這個部分呢是不是委員委員要先再詢問那我們再請機關代表做說明來委員請"},{"start":18092.681,"end":18114.02,"text":"我覺得就有共識嘛第一個共識當然是專案報告覺得是有需要啦實際上我覺得中央委員講的也對啦其實科技監控的效率它其實另外一個反面就是人權的到底我們的拿捏的尺度啦所以這兩個是一體兩面那確實我覺得是有專案報告的必要那至於要不要凍結20%就保留松協商吧"},{"start":18119.891,"end":18122.608,"text":"我們請機關代表高院長"},{"start":18126.44,"end":18144.164,"text":"謝謝莊委員的解說其實剛剛主席有提到我們這是委外人力是一次性的那如果說那他這個費用如果這個現在是就我們的審判業務費凍結20%那我們這個委外費用是佔我們的審判業務費31%"},{"start":18152.566,"end":18175.439,"text":"那其實你這樣一凍結其實明年的委外人力就不能夠發保了那不能這個是各法院編在本院並不是本院自己用的是25個法院都編在我們這裡那等於有25個法院他們就沒有辦法"},{"start":18176.502,"end":18198.471,"text":"有科技監控的人力來處理專案報告我們當然是對於委員所指教的當然會牽涉到人權很多議題我們也是一直在鼓勵法官們要多多思考去使用可是我們不能說"},{"start":18199.651,"end":18212.63,"text":"你一定要用。這種案件差別性太大了。這句話絕對不能講。可是以司法行政我是提供你便利的使用。那如果把它凍結的話,那就沒了。"},{"start":18218.052,"end":18218.152,"text":"主席"},{"start":18236.084,"end":18266.084,"text":"議員．"},{"start":18266.084,"end":18266.584,"text":"但是這一筆就最後一筆"},{"start":18294.522,"end":18323.287,"text":"我覺得合理性啦你不用把你的理性良知陪葬在黃國昌身上嘛對不對這個科技監控開什麼玩笑沒有辦法做的話採購沒有辦法出去的話誰負這個責任欸黃國昌今天在這裡拍拍屁股不在了議事記錄發言全部卡的被羅志強嗯湯啦你沒有那個那個壞心嘛對不對所以羅委員這一筆專案報告可以但是你不要動它因為它是採購啊我想院長說明的非常清楚"},{"start":18324.983,"end":18332.426,"text":"讓院長先講,然後我們再請羅委員,謝謝真的是因為這個剛剛講說是凍結是我們6000多萬的20%可是這一凍就是2100萬全部凍結啦是不是剛剛說2100萬的20%這概念是不一樣,等於是我剛剛講的就不要凍了我們就不要凍了"},{"start":18354.008,"end":18356.269,"text":"所以拜託拜託真的不能凍結"},{"start":18366.809,"end":18394.217,"text":"有立即的急迫性來我說明一下我們目前的提案他會凍結的預算數是1380萬2000元那這個如果對應到目前本項預算2162萬5000元那已經高達了他的六七成了啦換言之這個金額對應到他的科技監控的委外預算大概只剩不到四成那這種情況在一次性的發包等於是就停擺"},{"start":18395.103,"end":18411.853,"text":"那他的可能的可能的發生的情況就是說只要明年有因受科技監控但無法受監控的這些當事人造成社會的危安或秩序治安的一些侵犯那到時候呢社會在檢討的時候"},{"start":18413.394,"end":18427.912,"text":"恐怕會回到我們本委員會的預算的處理也是吳委員跟羅委員所關心的今天宅宅發言的預算內容是誰在要求做這個凍結的那麼是不是考慮過羅委員用專案報告但是不予凍結呢您請表達意見"},{"start":18430.51,"end":18447.792,"text":"當然我覺得司法院的代表不管是莊委員、吳委員你們講的都蠻有道理但是我要特別講一件事情在立法院我們審查預算其實永遠有一個矛盾點就剛剛我講的兩個點事實上你的這個科技監察的這個部分"},{"start":18450.083,"end":18473.019,"text":"在立法院的預算中心當中就直接告訴你事實上你的設備情形欠佳也不利發揮建制的效果所以說本來在預算審議上尤其在凍結這件事那簡略預算倒是一回事啦簡略是另外一回事但是預算凍結這件事上本來就是有兩個面向一個面向就是說我抱歉我對你這個預算很保留"},{"start":18473.519,"end":18482.518,"text":"另外一項面向就是說我只是對你的使用方式我覺得我需要你們要交代清楚所以並不是反對這個預算"},{"start":18483.803,"end":18502.896,"text":"那黃國昌委員的這個提案其實很清楚他是凍結百分之二十他是不是在減這個預算當然剛剛我覺得司法院代表說這個是所謂委外一次性那可能會有一些影響我覺得也言之有理但這個理是我覺得你也不急於這一時"},{"start":18503.917,"end":18528.106,"text":"反正政黨協商馬上就會進行啊對不對那這案子我說過既然專案報告大家有共識我覺得今天我們討論就有一個收穫嘛那至於凍結要不要凍結凍結多少還是算了就不要凍結只有專案報告這部分我覺得我的建議啦還是保留到我們的那個政黨協商去謝謝謝謝好那麼能不能請呃高等法院表達一下"},{"start":18529.121,"end":18529.281,"text":"反正喔﹖"},{"start":18558.024,"end":18565.013,"text":"六十五萬已經測案啦六十六萬是主決議啦你們乾脆回去發個新聞稿要譴責羅志祥那就"},{"start":18567.196,"end":18572.879,"text":"我覺得這個東西來羅委員聽我講吼我們立法院要負責任因為我們預算被擋了6次7次延宕了審查如果沒有延宕副委的時間坦白講我們可能司法院的預算可能在11月就審了那你那個時候去凍結對於他馬上要招標然後馬上去做協商相對他不會去壓縮他要去標案出去的時間"},{"start":18594.75,"end":18616.445,"text":"可是現在因為我們預算延宕到現在剩下五天法定審查的期限你也知道協商我是黨編我至少很清楚這個協商可能到一月多去了就是馬上是這樣所以我我們既然說要到了專案報告大家有共識其實你就把這個案子改組決議然後要求專案報告然後要求提改善就沒有凍結的問題"},{"start":18618.499,"end":18629.466,"text":"這是你要他發新聞稿寫羅志強不會啦不會啦不會嘛對不對所以我們達到我們要的監督效果好我我再來來那個羅委員"},{"start":18630.731,"end":18649.156,"text":"我把莊委員當個玩笑話那說真的如果司法院真的要發新聞稿譴責我那我就那也是樂見啦看司法院要不要發新聞稿來譴責那我要跟大家講還是那句話今天預算審查按照往例慣例本來就有可能審到一月多"},{"start":18650.285,"end":18674.759,"text":"那今天司法院你在衡量這些事情上面的過程當中我覺得你不能用這個理由跟我講說我今天10萬火雞連政黨協商都跳過這個理由我不能接受啦當我說過不是不是我就要講嘛就是說事實上這件事情我剛剛說過我沒有否定吳委員你講的論理啊我也沒否定莊委員我甚至也沒否定司法院啦可是我要講的是什麼就是說"},{"start":18677.514,"end":18696.599,"text":"立法院預算中心覺得你效率不佳也是個事實嘛那到底效率不佳那我今天不用這個方式專案報告是不是足以要督促你效率更佳那就讓政黨協商去討論嘛 對不對所以這是我今天覺得啦就是說我們把一些意見保留一下就今天有這些討論很好啊那政黨協商可以少了一部分這種討論嘛"},{"start":18697.619,"end":18713.848,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":18714.178,"end":18732.106,"text":"我們就來看到底是不是紫彩專案報告還是說今天凍結從20%降到10%也可以啊所以這些東西我倒是覺得說先再沉澱一下這是我的意見以上我想因為剛剛莊委員有誇許我們羅委員好商量那現在莊委員已經失望的離開了"},{"start":18733.326,"end":18748.093,"text":"那我還是要跟羅文做一個說明啦因為事實上我了解行政機關的預算審查機關到我們這裡來那我們要看目的看我們的手段跟目的是否有一致那過去我們常打一個比喻你倒洗澡水不要連嬰兒一起倒掉"},{"start":18748.593,"end":18768.494,"text":"那顯然我們各位發言的委員都肯認這個科技監控的預算是確有執行的必要只是在它執行的效能上我們希望它能夠提升跟改善那透過專案報告是不是就足以來要求但是反過來說如果委員認為專案報告還不足以要求我們改採以凍結的方式那結果就是連嬰兒一起倒掉"},{"start":18769.014,"end":18779.159,"text":"因為呢 這個預算 我們政府計劃的預算有的是逐月支出 有的在年初發包 那如果因為凍結而不能在年初發包 那形同整筆預算 不是"},{"start":18781.794,"end":18799.847,"text":"不能執行那我把它講完就是不能執行那造成連精進的機會都沒有所以我們還是希望說我們這個監控科技監控如果是各地方法院對於相關有治安違律的人我們進行監控那這樣的一個行政業務是不可以一日停頓的"},{"start":18800.467,"end":18807.571,"text":"那麼當然這不能據以來要求審議機關立法機關審議預算都不得已去處理那我們希望說委員瞭解我們審議督導他改進的目的到底認為這個預算不應該執行應與權數刪除還是認為這個預算的執行應與精進那如果是後者我們採取凍結要看到的效果要適得其反因為凍結的結果對本性質的預算一次性採購在年初發包的就會造成全部不能執行"},{"start":18827.962,"end":18850.555,"text":"就等同於是全數刪除的意思啦。是我還是要提醒委員我們所做的手段要跟目的有一致性那如果我們要求的是精競那排專案報告大家都同意但是如果你採取凍結縱使交互黨團朝野協商事實上也不及在明年一月進行發包而各地方法院就失去了使用這筆預算科技監控的"},{"start":18852.265,"end":18872.317,"text":"機會,那也表示等同於對本案做全案刪除的動議啦。那麼還是請羅委員三思慎著啦。好啦我跟你講我的重點仍然是希望加強透明嘛。那當然我剛剛司法院既然這樣講說十萬火急,那我就問凍結多少是你們能接受的嘛。對啊就這樣啊。"},{"start":18873.462,"end":18874.303,"text":"因為是一致性的"},{"start":18890.066,"end":18907.914,"text":"那我要的其實重點還是專案報告啦就跟你講你主決議專案報告就有啦我這樣好不好先讓他們算好不好先讓他們算一下我可以發表一下好先讓他們換一下沒有沒有我不用休息我發表一下我不知道剛剛羅委員你是接了誰的電話是黃國昌打給你嗎"},{"start":18911.348,"end":18934.988,"text":"我覺得就你今天已經很努力的替不在場的黃國昌委員替他來說明每一個他的提案即便他的內容有多荒謬多不合理你也是很負責任就同事之間的情誼你也做到了就政治之力上你羅志強有沒有輸給黃國昌任何一點啊你不需要當他的這個小弟服務到這種程度我真的而且這會賠上"},{"start":18937.625,"end":18961.049,"text":"可能會相及部分你的我相信你是你也很清楚知道我們現在在跟你argue這最後一筆預算它的意義在哪裡所以立委大家都是一樣平等的其實今天主席非常的尊重照理講提案委員不在場真的不用為他這個不在場的人花這麼多時間在討論好那回到一個合理性齁剛剛羅委員已經在講我們已經要到最在乎的是專案報告"},{"start":18967.216,"end":18994.745,"text":"那用主決議就一定會要到專案報告那你現在請他們好他們去算五趴十趴我不知道我本人就是認為這個案子不要去凍結他你凍結一趴也好兩趴也好二十趴也好都會影響他馬上一月就要做的採購可能連帶影響就是科技監控整個偵查的空窗或是停擺所以我再次是覺得羅委員你今天很幫黃國昌了你真的不是他的小弟"},{"start":18996.243,"end":19004.707,"text":"你在政治資歷上一點都不輸黃國昌你何必當黃國昌的小弟不需要我在捍衛羅志強的尊嚴真的不需要"},{"start":19008.68,"end":19028.839,"text":"我跟吳委員講,實際上這個提案我的名字也在上面啦,所以也不要把我跟這個黃國昌好像什麼誰是小弟誰是大哥,也沒這個回事啦。那本來預算提案的討論大家就是各自說服嘛。"},{"start":19029.44,"end":19054.888,"text":"那你覺得你有道理 我也不是完全沒讓步啊 對不對那我也覺得 我聽聽我覺得你們講得有道理 我不會說每一件事情我都說鐵板一塊 抱歉就是不行嘛 所以因此我剛剛只是提一個idea嘛 那你今天對 讓他看司法院覺得做不做得到 你們就先說做不做得到嘛 以上果然羅委員是有溫暖的 那我們是不是請那個高等法院說明一下多少額度的凍結不影響你們年初的發包 但是後續有精進的餘地"},{"start":19057.58,"end":19070.505,"text":"可不可以拜託羅委員,一層就好,2166的一層,可以嗎?2166的一層,因為它是那個採購案。這是200萬好不好,凍結200萬。沒關係,它有2162的一層啦。"},{"start":19078.018,"end":19091.906,"text":"二一六二的議程好不好因為這個項目的預算就是二一六二那我們就開始做這樣的處理好非常感謝那我們就以凍結那麼216萬兩千元我先讀第二幕審判業務第65案撤案第66案改為主決議嗎"},{"start":19103.411,"end":19109.176,"text":"改為主決議本目凍結216萬2千元並針對凍結提案之要求依審查會決議提專案報告經同意後指的凍支"},{"start":19121.506,"end":19147.584,"text":"好,對我來講這溫度不夠還蠻冷血的好沒關係主席我最後因為讓他們議事人員去整理一下因為今天這是最後一個案子我想要請求這議事人員好沒關係兩個主角應該是沒有問題的就是說針對我們委員會司法法制委員會對於司法院的預算今天審查下來我們到底凍結數是多少檢列數是多少可不可以馬上整理出來"},{"start":19149.144,"end":19161.335,"text":"可不可以因為我還是要在這裡要做成我的發言的記錄我去統計了過去3年在司法法制委員會審閉司法院的預算的整體凍結數是佔0.33%1296萬"},{"start":19166.079,"end":19170.082,"text":"檢列數是減70.6萬占0.018%我要再次說我為什麼認為憲法徵修條文第5條以及預算法93條告訴我們的他盡可能去達到憲法機關的平等相違"},{"start":19181.972,"end":19195.546,"text":"立法院縱使有審查預算的權利但是憲法徵求條文的第5條預算法93告訴我們都是司法預算你起碼維持他的司法獨立的這件事情所以反映在過去歷屆我在立法院也許沒有那麼資深"},{"start":19196.772,"end":19208.362,"text":"但是我所對於司法預算的過去每一次除了協商的統刪什麼水電費、油費之外基本上大概就是過去三年是我剛講的凍結數0.33%然後減劣數0.018%"},{"start":19214.867,"end":19240.835,"text":"我就沒有做成歷史記錄因為我非常不樂見在這個會期預算都還沒有被排審之前我就看到在野黨的委員一直對媒體揚言我就是要大砍司法院預算我就是要修理你們開刀那等一下整理出來的數字就是一個印證我要做成我今天負責任坐在這裡的審查我認為立法委員我們都要尊重司法權的行使"},{"start":19242.222,"end":19270.714,"text":"所以過去的數字我都整理出來那今年我們到底在這裡審查我捍衛了一個早上的司法預算我們獲得什麼樣子的成果砍預算要合理我剛剛聽到每一個案子我心都在淌血啊一動就是一千萬兩千萬一砍就是三百萬五百萬我們今天交出什麼樣子審查理性審查司法院預算的成績單呢不要拿著政治報復的這種心態在大砍司法預算"},{"start":19271.977,"end":19286.986,"text":"我覺得我們要給社會一個清楚的說明我不是只針對現在留在現場的羅委員我說的是只是你今天特別認真你坐在這我覺得我需要這個數字因為我們要對社會交代媒體也在這裡都關心今天大砍"},{"start":19288.661,"end":19302.125,"text":"司法院預算的結果是什麼好,那麼委員可不可以再詳述一下你說的檢列跟凍結數在前年度我是用前三年111、112跟113年的平均數檢列多少凍結數是1296萬檢列數是70.6萬這是在委員會那最後送到院會檢列數多少70.6"},{"start":19314.062,"end":19327.264,"text":"然後因為到院會捅刪就有比較高的金額我不知道今天審議的結果是因為我知道很多是保留協商但是保留協商還是要算他原本的减劣數跟凍結數啊"},{"start":19329.797,"end":19338.705,"text":"如果說我大概跟委員報竟然會有人提出來那麼目前不記錄保留送協商的部分已經減列50萬凍結數是高達4974萬9千元這是目前委員會就已經做成的減列數跟凍結數"},{"start":19347.893,"end":19352.955,"text":"那未來到院會前的協商只會這兩個數字往上推啦過去還不曾有過委員會出去之後到院會把原來的檢列書或凍結書下降的情況所以剛剛委員您的一個統計跟我這邊接到我們議事人員所提供的但是沒有剛剛這個是沒有算這是最終最終那我這裡是上位那你協商的呢"},{"start":19373.161,"end":19375.704,"text":"議員．一、繼續審查司法院函送財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案"},{"start":19392.944,"end":19406.076,"text":"所以你這個是已經在委員會做成的決議嘛那我說的是保留協商的啊因為我們努力就是不讓他直接檢列跟凍結我們才努力要保留協商但是這是他們要砍要刪的意圖啊所以當然要算那個啊"},{"start":19408.068,"end":19412.152,"text":"接下來我們處理的是本日議程討論事項第一案已處理完畢以下宣告14年度中央政府總預算案關於司法院及所屬主管收支部分審查完畢提報院會"},{"start":19430.75,"end":19458.157,"text":"愿會討論前需交由黨團協商愿會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明現在進行討論事項第二案繼續審查財團法人法律扶助基金會114年度預算書案那麼提案第一案到第四案四案均為主決議依序進行處理那我們有四個主決議那麼請看我們的那個提案書的彙整在另外這一邊那麼"},{"start":19461.777,"end":19489.99,"text":"從內容開始第一案第一案是林委員那麼請問機關代表那麼對於內容是否陳董事長是否同意同意好那麼我們第一案照案通過那請問第二案是也是林委員提案好你們遵照辦理那我們第二案就照案通過第三案是陳羽委員提案那請問好遵照辦理好我們照案通過第四案"},{"start":19491.872,"end":19517.325,"text":"第四案也是遵照辦理好我們第四案就照案通過好那麼討論事項第二案處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完順提報院會院會討論前不需交由黨團協商院會討論時由中召集委員嘉賓說明那你們繼續再算是不是保留的部分有再繼續算嗎有齁那我們再等一下齁"},{"start":19518.208,"end":19543.93,"text":"那麼有關本日議程討論事項通過修正之預算提案請機關將修正內容經提案委員簽名同意後送交主席台均列入公報記錄通過之決議依例文字授權主席及議事人員處理那現在主席那麼特別應我們委員的要求我們將今天的剛剛的已經先初步將"},{"start":19544.671,"end":19572.519,"text":"委員會已經有審議完整我們的檢列數跟凍結數已經跟委員會做一個報告了那目前經過確保的檢列是50萬凍結的數將近5000萬但是送運會協商的部分那麼恐怕還在這個數字之上那我們就做個報告請大家再耐心一點因為這個宣告是有紀錄的"},{"start":19576.327,"end":19586.391,"text":"讓所有機關代表瞭解今天預算審查我們委員會努力的審查的結果有多少是要送到院會那個是不在本委員會的含色範圍那這跟選舉的速報表一樣是我們初步的一個統計"},{"start":19606.198,"end":19621.399,"text":"送院會協商的部分你要寫嗎?可以直接寫在這裡沒關係"},{"start":19639.804,"end":19640.286,"text":"二、繼續審查"},{"start":19707.398,"end":19734.241,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議"},{"start":19746.465,"end":19747.306,"text":"二、繼續審查司法院及所屬主管收支部分。"},{"start":19758.049,"end":19784.665,"text":"好,那麼跟委員做說明齁那麼今日委員會呢我們保留部分統計檢列數達一億兩千兩百一十九萬五千元凍結數保留的部分達一億五千八百五十四萬元那在最後呢會議結束前呢我再做一個說明齁那麼根據"},{"start":19787.162,"end":19805.579,"text":"根據民國9494年立法院審議中央政府總預算案刪除司法院院長、副院長、大法官秘書等94年度司法人員專業價值預算任有限制疑慮大法官在當年作出了誓字第601號的解釋當年大法官會議的主席是翁岳昇大法官院長"},{"start":19806.68,"end":19821.577,"text":"大法官包括陳仲謀、林勇謀、王和雄、謝再全、賴英照、余選民、曾永田、賴應南、楊仁壽、徐碧胡、彭鳳志、林芷怡、許忠利及許玉秀。那麼在當中這裡寫到"},{"start":19824.16,"end":19852.419,"text":"則施司法違憲審查權至大法官倘無明確穩定之奉及保障年年受制於預算權責機關將嚴重影響民主憲政秩序之穩定與健全與大法官依據憲法及法律獨立行使之權以維護自由民主憲政秩序保障人民基本權利故應受法官獨立審判制度性保障之憲法意旨尚有未符。"},{"start":19853.359,"end":19878.359,"text":"我想今天本期撿為我們委員會的召集委員主持今日的預算審議會議那麼剛剛我們所報告的那經過委員會委員的充分討論激烈的攻防之後呢我們做成的委員會的檢列數及保留預算數均超過往年之幅度而保留送院會"},{"start":19879.882,"end":19908.277,"text":"協商有待處理有可能遭刪除檢列可能的又都均達一億五千萬元以上那麼這樣的一個預算審議結果恐怕將使我國的憲政秩序因為立法權的預算審議可能損及到我們司法權的情況那麼非常的遺憾那因此呢做無上的一個說明那本次會議議程所列事項均已處理完畢議會進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家"}]}},{"id":"16422","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16422","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302ddc7e719fa4ce89b4ff37b898cdd86ce786d1319bf84c91682876431e6310b2c745ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2024-12-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業預算。\n二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算。\n三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營業預算。\n四、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金-臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金分預算。\n【12月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】）","type":"Full","date":"2024-12-26","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2024-12-26T08:31:40+0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金來源用途及輿出一、基金來源九十五億八七七三萬元"},{"start":1847.247,"end":1847.667,"text":"建設基金非營業預算"},{"start":1865.063,"end":1867.884,"text":"我本來是想說針對1億經過溝通以後適度的調整一下應該是針對2000萬這樣應該可以吧"},{"start":1878.186,"end":1897.991,"text":"好,那我們第一案我們做成決議基金來源我們增列兩千萬元好,謝謝我們現在處理第二到十一案港灣建設計畫預算數三十八億五千三百六十萬元好,那我們請提案委員有沒有要提問鄰居縣委員"},{"start":1906.276,"end":1925.92,"text":"謝謝本集題第三案是有3減3千萬和凍結10%主要先請我們港務基金這邊來說明一下為什麼你今年的執行率那麼差?港分建設計畫到今年11月原來今年預算的20億7599萬只有執行60%請說明"},{"start":1932.295,"end":1948.695,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":1949.155,"end":1963.318,"text":"第十案可以改為組結議。第八案跟第九案是不是適度的刪一下,因為我刪的金額算高,是不是能夠三個兩千萬。好,謝謝林國成委員。那林崑哲委員。"},{"start":1973.69,"end":1986.354,"text":"我的是第二案港灣建設計畫總共編列的預算是38億比113年度的預算增加了3億9683萬如果再比較112年度的決算也增加了11億左右其實我看這項預算在過去的這種執行率的狀況其實是不太好的"},{"start":2002.719,"end":2020.487,"text":"那除了預算編列應該要更加謹慎那我也認為應該要檢討過去的執行的狀態那港務公司有跟我們來對話討論我是可以同意改3減2000萬然後凍結5000萬提書面報告後解凍以上謝謝李坤哲委員那還有委員要提問"},{"start":2029.463,"end":2051.114,"text":"本席提第五案我的部分也是跟昆澤人關心的也是一樣有關我們在港灣建設計畫裡面除了部分新增計畫之外114年度部分項目是延續辦理的跨年的一個項目但是我們看到就是說截至113年7月底"},{"start":2053.095,"end":2075.552,"text":"累計的預算執行率未達一成的就有三項所以我們希望就是說我們航港局這邊針對這三項的執行率延遲的原因及改善的措施希望能夠提出具體的一個改善計畫然後於一個月內向交通委員會提出書面報告後使得動之那本席是提凍結預算10%好謝謝"},{"start":2078.854,"end":2081.401,"text":"還有沒有委員要提問?如果沒有我們現在就請這個局長、葉局長說明。"},{"start":2087.415,"end":2110.328,"text":"好,謝謝昭偉跟各位委員的這個提案的那針對剛剛各位委員的提案我這邊很簡要的綜合報告跟各位委員來做報告說明那第一個是有關林俊憲委員跟李昆澤委員特別提到這個港港建設計畫執行績效這個有落後的部分"},{"start":2110.928,"end":2135.203,"text":"那跟委員報告就是說最主要是港務公司這邊因為有一些的工程呢必須要配合這個規劃設計的時程那在下半年來才能夠發包那到11月的這個分配數執行數已經達到20.76億執行率到92.43那到年底呢可以全數執行完畢所以執行績效已經有改善"},{"start":2135.903,"end":2153.708,"text":"第二個為了有效的改善這個持續提升我們港灣建設計畫的這個執行率港公司每個月都有召開這個專案的會議來檢討航港局有透過我們相關的系統持續的來關注這個港公司執行狀況每年有兩次的專案會議"},{"start":2155.97,"end":2157.431,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":2173.55,"end":2194.148,"text":"那另外有關剛剛趙偉這邊有特別提到有三項的這個議員以上那到7月底為止執行績效為達一成的這個三項的工程我這邊特別跟趙偉報告第一個是高雄港的過港隧道的消防設備這個部分"},{"start":2195.909,"end":2216.364,"text":"這部分目前已經完成發包然後月付款已經完成撥付所以今年預計執行數已經全數執行完畢第二個是有關高雄港第五貨櫃中心的變電站的工程那這個工程也在7月份完成決標"},{"start":2217.245,"end":2239.865,"text":"那12月已經完成1.18億的一個撥付所以執行率也達到百分之百第三個工程就是我們七貴的貨櫃專用刀的部分那這個部分呢,航港基金的分配款2.59億元這個因為四個標都已經完成發包所以2.59億元今年度已經全數撥付完畢那執行率也達到百分之百"},{"start":2240.566,"end":2264.903,"text":"那我想,謝謝各位委員的提醒,我想航港局跟港澳公司會持續來關注跟提升這個港澳建設計畫的執行績效。那編列預算也會更加的省慎。那我想讓這個航港經濟的這個編列跟致用都能夠更為有效。那我想就先做以上簡要的報告。"},{"start":2265.609,"end":2288.975,"text":"好,謝謝葉局長詳細的說明,那如果沒有其他委員要再追詢,那我們就來做一個處理,那二到十一案有委員提刪減案還有凍結案,那剛剛我們李崑澤委員就是要刪減兩千萬,那林國成委員也是主張要刪減兩千萬,那這個部分"},{"start":2289.815,"end":2294.82,"text":"非營業部分關於交通部主管航港建設基金非營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司"},{"start":2316.141,"end":2326.592,"text":"我們接下來處理第12到16案國際商港未來發展及建設計畫一般港建設基金辦理部分預算數是46億3668萬2000元這部分提案委員要不要做提問鄰居縣委員"},{"start":2335.463,"end":2353.087,"text":"感謝主席、各位同仁。本期題第12案請接近說明明年度你在本預算跟今年相較增加了快10%大概增略了4億多達到了46億3600萬再來準備要做國際三港未來發展及建設計畫"},{"start":2358.948,"end":2369.216,"text":"但是我們的港灣建設計畫到今年11月已經超額執行了到60億執行率變143%但同年的香港服務費只有48億遠低於國際香港的支出造成收支失"},{"start":2381.666,"end":2383.928,"text":"國際香港未來發展及建設計畫在航港建設基金的辦理部分編列了46億3668萬元"},{"start":2407.842,"end":2420.516,"text":"這個比113年度的預算其實是增加了4億1,006萬元但是我們來看航港基金114年度預算其實是減少了12億2,355萬"},{"start":2423.82,"end":2451.413,"text":"而且113年度相關預算這個執行率也是狀況不佳那我一再認為這相關預算編列是應該要更加的嚴謹等一下要說明預算辦理的情形然後再如何改善的這種執行狀況也等一下請局長說明一下另外是第15案國際香港未來發展及建設計畫航港建設基金辦理部分"},{"start":2452.393,"end":2464.544,"text":"編列了46億3668萬元但是航港基金的剩餘是逐年降低我提醒局長112年的決算僅僅是4333萬元然後113年預計還會再短掃860萬元那114年度的預算"},{"start":2479.336,"end":2504.313,"text":"減少約12億2355萬元應該說明計畫的必要性便儘速要推動財務的改善以利基金的這種永續發展這兩個案我原本都是要刪減在看你們說明的狀況之後再來做處理以上"},{"start":2505.253,"end":2523.332,"text":"好,謝謝李坤澤委員那還有沒有委員要提問?若沒有我們現在就請航港局葉局長說明好,謝謝趙偉跟兩位委員的這個提案的提醒那首先跟林委員報告呢那第一個是有關國際商港這個計畫的這個進度的超前"},{"start":2526.996,"end":2549.571,"text":"剛剛李委員也有關心這邊跟兩位委員報告就是說這邊最主要是港務公司在執行航港基金在執行各國際商港的公共基礎設施的工程在今年度有進度超前的情形配合進度的執行依照工程的合約來撥付所以執行率有超過100%"},{"start":2550.692,"end":2569.887,"text":"那剛剛林委員特別垂詢了商服費每年只有48億那這個部分的確不足以支應這個我們國際三港的這個計畫那這邊特別跟委員報告航港基金的收入來源大概有三大部分除了商服費將近50億元之外"},{"start":2570.347,"end":2596.472,"text":"另外港務公司依照設置條例營業預提撥每年要營業預提撥30%給我們航港基金另外各港的土地的租金跟權利金有2%也是要歸到航港基金所以總共有三筆預算來支應但是就像剛剛李昆哲委員所提醒的我們逐年現在基金的剩餘逐年的降低"},{"start":2596.972,"end":2611.357,"text":"那到預估到明年底只剩下86億元這部分我想施一個警訊我們有特別的注意那我想未來呢我們在跟港公司第一個就是年度的計劃的預算的編列上"},{"start":2612.737,"end":2634.623,"text":"還是會以充分的審慎的以量入為出考量他的這個優先款級的這個原則下審慎來做一個編列那另外呢開源的部分有跟兩位委員報告就是說第一個是港公司在112年呢已經調高了這個港部業務費10%所以航港基金可以透過這個"},{"start":2635.843,"end":2659.131,"text":"港部業務費提升增加由公司營業分配另外臺北港土方管理費我們這邊也有足以增加所以一年大概可以增加4到5億元的收入我想透過開源節流的措施我們希望維持航港基金的財務永續這部分我想謝謝兩位會員提醒我們這邊後續還是會持續關注財務的狀況以上報告"},{"start":2663.792,"end":2681.189,"text":"謝謝我們李坤召委員謝謝召委我請教一下局長,航港建設基金為什麼會有這種逐年短促的情形因為我們知道航港建設基金當然它的來源當然是有政府預算的這種程序的撥款"},{"start":2682.57,"end":2700.368,"text":"也有香港的服務會的這個收入還有財產出租啊還有其他經營事業機構的收入等等那也有香港經營事業機構提撥之年度營餘的分配收入"},{"start":2701.268,"end":2726.007,"text":"以及航港局經營或管理國內商港的營運收入還有原商港建設費的這個撥入還有這個基金的支息的收入等等那為什麼會有減少的這種狀況來說明一下是是跟理論報告那因為航港理論基金主要的用途是用在"},{"start":2726.887,"end":2739.999,"text":"我們七大國際商港的公共基礎設施的這個工程的建設那這幾年配合離岸風電的發展等等那這幾年依照我們最新一期行政院核定的111到15的這個"},{"start":2741.821,"end":2767.8,"text":"我們國際三港的五年建設計畫這幾年的建設的需求是比過去來得高所以往往我們在基金的用途就是不管是國際專案的這個計畫還是港灣建設計畫的需求都會比我們基金的來源數來得高那以至於近幾年這個剩餘有逐漸下降的這個情形"},{"start":2768.26,"end":2786.718,"text":"那這個部分呢謝謝委員提醒我們也有特別跟部裡報告那也有特別關注到這樣的一個現象那這個部分除了我剛剛報告的開源節流還有編列的審慎的一個考量之外另外呢特別我們也跟港公司協商"},{"start":2787.759,"end":2813.714,"text":"在歸由航港基金來支應的這個分擔的這個原則裡面我們也再來進一步來檢視哪一些應該是歸在航港基金屬於基礎設施的部分哪一些是歸在屬於營業性有收入面的部分由港務公司的營業基金來負擔好,這樣就很清楚啦報告召喚我的部分就同意不刪減啦然後這個凍結3000萬提書面報告後解凍以上"},{"start":2816.476,"end":2837.036,"text":"好,謝謝李昆澤委員。那明居縣委員這邊是不是有同意就不審檢了。好,那我們現在就來進行處理第12到第16案國際商港未來發展及建設計畫一般港建設基金辦理部分決議就是凍結3000萬元提書面報告後使得凍資。"},{"start":2839.879,"end":2852.754,"text":"謝謝,那我們接下來處理第17到23案,五國智慧航安服務升級計畫,預算數是3億9千7百零5萬9千元。那我們請吉昂委員,還有那個林國成委員,謝謝。"},{"start":2853.615,"end":2874.102,"text":"好那個謝謝主席我本期提案是21案跟23案跟23案所以我這兩案啊當然本來是有3減5000萬跟8000萬那我在想是經過溝通說明以後這裡啊這兩個案子是否可以小刪200萬然後"},{"start":2876.463,"end":2903.997,"text":"我們堅持的就是這些智慧航安提升的這個計畫要做專案報告所以這兩個案要做專案報告所以啊我是建議這個小三兩百萬然後要做專案報告以上好謝謝林國成委員好那還有委員要提問嗎沒有的話那我們就請葉局長說明"},{"start":2909.087,"end":2928.177,"text":"謝謝林委員的提案就是有關21案跟23案我想相關的內容大概都有跟委員辦公室這邊來做報告那有關刪減的部分我想這邊我們配合辦理那是不是因為就是用在這個專案計畫裡面那可不可以跟委員"},{"start":2929.518,"end":2952.893,"text":"這邊請人幫忙就是說專案報告的部分可不可以改成書面報告我們會詳細的針對委員關心的事項就仔細的報告說明那是不是提書面報告後時的動機這個再拜託委員沒有啦這個因為這個智慧航運這個安全的部分這個非常重要啦"},{"start":2953.513,"end":2970.121,"text":"所以也可以把所有的東西把它排列一下做一個專案報告這個也無妨啊那所有三預算我都已經退讓那這個部分你書面跟專案只是來到立法院我們有疑問我們再問一問這個有什麼困難呢"},{"start":2972.623,"end":2977.591,"text":"我們就退回辦理,那是不是就3.2百萬名譽凍結,不知道這樣可以嗎?"},{"start":2986.887,"end":3011.965,"text":"就是跟委員會啦,專案報告一定是跟委員會啊好,那我們林季炫委員來,感謝主席跟各位同仁其實我也要提第17案啦其實因為我們一整輪預算審下來如果都專案報告你沒有計算可能累積起來就不得了"},{"start":3012.665,"end":3012.945,"text":"好。好的。"},{"start":3042.386,"end":3059.908,"text":"好那如果沒有其他委員要再就是垂詢我們就來做一個處理啦齁但是您因為民國總委員關心的那個我第10屆案也有提因為你那個是什麼智慧隨路因為現在反正送預算都要加入智慧兩個字啦好像好像這樣入味的不太會痛"},{"start":3061.309,"end":3076.8,"text":"但是你這個是航安、航行安全那為什麼水路事故那會增加呢?所以這個你們自己要改善啊,我說你事業報告要提出這邊是是是,我們會對這一點是是,謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":3077.622,"end":3103.798,"text":"好,本席又提第19案也是針對那個智慧航安的這個部分那就是請航港局就是針對我的提案一併做一個詳細的說明好,那我們現在就來做一個處理第17到23案我國智慧航安服務升級計畫我們就是三減兩百萬然後凍結十分之一"},{"start":3105.259,"end":3109.401,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":3132.753,"end":3145.391,"text":"第二十四到二十七案一般行政管理計劃預算數十二億六千六百九十八萬三千元那請問提案的委員要不要好那個林國成有"},{"start":3146.071,"end":3171.744,"text":"本席提了二十五案跟二十七案那個二十七案可以改為主決議啦改為主決議那另外就是二十五案這個部分建議那個凍結百分之二十書面報告,原則上是書面報告好,這一步刪減了好,那我們徐副委員"},{"start":3175.668,"end":3192.837,"text":"謝主席,我提出第24案,是有機於最近這個海難災害防救一個處理的機制。那,航港局截至今年7月為止,就16件外籍漁船擱淺的案子,帶電處理的費用高達3億6千多萬,但是帶追場的金額還有2億6千多萬。"},{"start":3196.579,"end":3225.923,"text":"所以帶電追回的比例只有不到三成那尤其目前我們跟其他的國家訂定的這個相關的一個條約協議或是約定並沒有一個強制規範的一個行政處分的一個措施造成我們這個追償的一個問題那所以本席我這邊提案凍結一般行政管理計畫預算五千萬那也請我們航港局提出相關的書面報告使得動之以上說明"},{"start":3226.909,"end":3244.821,"text":"好,謝謝徐副委員,那還沒有其他委員要提問,如果沒有我們就來進行處理,那這邊都是凍結案,那是不是建議我們就併案凍結五千萬,然後提書面報告後實行凍結。"},{"start":3250.111,"end":3252.632,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":3277.458,"end":3292.408,"text":"一、二十九案本來是建議是不是可以三個一百萬吧那報告就不要了。好,那局長這邊要不要說謝謝張偉根委員那這個部分我想我們努力的終結這個採購的預算那我們配合3.0百萬元"},{"start":3305.356,"end":3310.419,"text":"二十八案的部分你們有去溝通嗎?有跟旅委員辦公室報告我們就來處理我們併案處理一般建築及設備計畫我們併案處理三減一百萬元就免於凍結"},{"start":3330.676,"end":3354.393,"text":"好,謝謝。那我們接下來處理第30到43案,決議案。好,第30案。報告委員,報告委員會,甚至章案報告可以改成所有的報告,有跟盧委員辦公室報告了。OK,好,那就照文字修正後通過。第31案。遵照辦理。好,章案通過。第32案。遵照辦理。"},{"start":3354.733,"end":3362.657,"text":"召喚通過第33案。召喚通過第34案。召喚通過第35案。召喚通過第36案。召喚通過第37案。召喚通過第38案。召喚通過第39案。召喚通過第40案。報告召委、報告委員會那這邊可能要建議著作文字修正"},{"start":3381.207,"end":3402.321,"text":"那因為要跟委員會報告就是說因為邱委員這個提案是針對高雄港的貨櫃量的招商的經濟計畫的這個建議那因為這個部分是屬於經營管理面的部分是屬於港務公司的權責那是不是建議倒數第二行這個由航港局研擬高雄港貨櫃"},{"start":3404.463,"end":3422.623,"text":"運量、招商、經濟計劃這個文字呢,軸條為航港建設基金編列國際商港公共基礎建設經費檢討機制。軸座文字求證。好,那提案委員我們邱瑞華委員。我們的邱委員同意。對,主決議員。"},{"start":3425.887,"end":3437.357,"text":"第二行文字有修正有文字修正你有簽名的我們就是照文字修正後通過第41案遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理遵照辦理"},{"start":3446.553,"end":3471.203,"text":"那我們航港建設基金114年度附屬單位預算的預算提案我們處理完畢接下來我們處理港務公司我們就是休息5分鐘來換場一下那本席在這邊補充宣告就是公共工程委員會的預算提案第60案第61案這個兩位提案委員同意改組決議謝謝"},{"start":3473.832,"end":3476.993,"text":"就是盧明哲委員跟黃建豪委員同意改組決議。謝謝。"},{"start":3499.414,"end":3500.334,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央"},{"start":3527.501,"end":3527.521,"text":"臺灣國務卿"},{"start":3583.973,"end":3600.326,"text":"好,那我們繼續開會接下來我們處理臺灣港務公司114年度營業預算預算提案那我們首先來處理第一、第二案營業收入的部分那我們請提案委員要不要提問請林佩祥委員"},{"start":3600.886,"end":3625.803,"text":"謝謝主席。本席是針對他們的營業收入我是提議增列5億元是因為說根據他們現在疫情之後全球經濟已經復甦所以針對說今年明年據說明年的這個經濟成長率是3.2%左右所以說依港務公司去年的performance的績效來講應該可以增加到5億元但是經過溝通之後改為增列1億元"},{"start":3628.285,"end":3646.954,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":3648.879,"end":3663.772,"text":"還有營業收入增加随同增列支付航港建设基金全利金。好,谢谢。好,那我們现在处理第三到第三十案服务费用的部分。那总预算数是40亿1000。"},{"start":3666.454,"end":3671.616,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":3690.561,"end":3693.123,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":3712.611,"end":3733.464,"text":"第二十千元也大概啦二十千是我們那個所謂推廣費用就是也是等於是郵輪的對針對郵輪的國際國際招商啦幫主席沒想到提第15案第15案也是我們的業務費用啦業務費用這一筆錢主要是行銷獎勵啦就我們吸引國際的貨輪貨櫃裝卸到臺灣來"},{"start":3738.988,"end":3743.65,"text":"但是這筆錢花下去以後呢我發現我們從2021年2022年到2023年在臺灣在我們國內的我們的三港貨櫃吞吐量啊就有減少這個趨勢啊"},{"start":3755.234,"end":3775.262,"text":"所以你用獎勵金恐怕沒有辦法達到我們預期的能夠吸引國際的這種商輪到臺灣來裝卸貨運是不是還有其他的原因我認為應該要再提除了錢以外獎勵金以外看起來效果不好"},{"start":3775.962,"end":3788.95,"text":"有沒有其他的方式應該做一個檢討那北京本來提10分之一後來經過說明以後他們同意凍結2000萬這個北京同意那再提報告北京我講的是第15案好謝謝"},{"start":3790.54,"end":3803.475,"text":"好謝謝林俊憲委員接下來林培祥委員好謝謝主席本席提的是第6案、第13案跟第23案有關第6案也是一樣是旅運費要出包括說去邁阿密的郵輪論壇"},{"start":3811.824,"end":3825.112,"text":"本席曾經在港務公司任職的時候去過郵輪論壇。事實上來講,我認同林俊憲委員的想法,我是認同,三結百分之十。針對第23案來講的話,經過溝通協調之後,所謂的專業服務費本席願意改為凍結百分之二十。"},{"start":3833.217,"end":3857.597,"text":"但是針對第13案本席堅持目前因為如果說仔細看進去如果說以第13案6億6千6億6千6千萬的這個預算來看的時候我們當我們看進去這個預算書第48頁我們會看到說行銷獎勵措施高達6億5千萬然後真正有關這個拖船拖船的獎勵之類只到不到不到1千萬這一點來講我本席認為是說這點需要詳細解釋所以本席堅持"},{"start":3861.62,"end":3884.169,"text":"三除一億元,風險百分之三十。好,謝謝林佩祥委員。接下來邀請李昆澤委員,之後再請邱若驊委員,接續是林國成委員,謝謝。謝謝召委。我的是第三案。服務費用的預算,它編列40億左右。我看我們依據勞動部的違反勞動法令事業單位這個查詢系統的資訊,"},{"start":3890.851,"end":3916.061,"text":"我們港務公司都有相關違反的這些具體事項那其實我認為這個是嚴重的影響勞工的安全那作為國營事業應該要嚴守勞動法令杜絕這種違法的情形應該更具體的保障勞工的這些基本的安全"},{"start":3916.801,"end":3922.423,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":3942.689,"end":3965.807,"text":"預算必須增加維護的這些費用那這個我可以同意不刪減那第30案就是推展費我們編列了4013萬元這個用途主要是包括招商業務推廣等等但是我看我們港務公司的114年的營業收入預算比113年度的預算"},{"start":3970.151,"end":3974.436,"text":"僅僅增加了1.5%預計營業收入金額甚至會不會比112年的決算1億3109萬元這個請你們來說明以上"},{"start":3988.548,"end":4009.448,"text":"李昆哲委員。接下來邱若驊委員。謝謝主席。本席提的是第14案,因為有看到業務費用,它的包裝代理還有加工費,還有行銷獎勵金。高雄港112年貨櫃量大幅縮減,雖然國際排名沒有退後,還進步一名,可是貨櫃量大幅下滑是一個基準的事實。"},{"start":4010.189,"end":4035.464,"text":"也是港務公司現在現存的一個重大挑戰所以本席有提有凍結該科目就是兩千萬元這邊凍結兩千萬然後也要求港務公司提出精進的對策解決高雄港競爭力的問題然後再來是本席還有提第22案那這邊這個預算和過往類似的名目的預算像是港灣"},{"start":4036.445,"end":4036.985,"text":"以上說明,謝謝。"},{"start":4059.397,"end":4064.019,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算公司營業部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業部主管臺灣港務股份"},{"start":4078.795,"end":4092.871,"text":"接下來邀請林國成委員謝謝主席,因為本席提第四案跟二十案跟二十八案,第四案的部分就不刪減了,也不凍結"},{"start":4096.636,"end":4108.669,"text":"二十案的部分本席建議也不凍結然後三減三百萬第二十八案三減兩百萬其他不凍結好謝謝林國成委員"},{"start":4113.995,"end":4141.092,"text":"還有其他委員要遵循的那部分那本席這邊也提了三案我大概快速簡單的講一下就是我的第16案是針對我們的業務費用服務費用這一項就是我們有編列行銷獎勵措施6億5000萬元這個部分主要是要提供經濟獎勵又一來吸引航商來臺灣港群作業提升這個港口的競爭力"},{"start":4141.932,"end":4167.799,"text":"我們看到高雄港在2023年的時候這個排名就是已經降為第17名然後這個貨櫃量2023年也比2022年來跌幅了6.9%所以這個部分本期是提凍結3000萬元希望臺灣港務公司能夠研議提升港口競爭競爭力的一個有效的一個策略然後提出書面報告後使得動之"},{"start":4168.599,"end":4184.596,"text":"然後第21案的部分我們有看到就是在勞務成本維持費用專業服務費這個部分也編列了3600萬元主要是要配合相關環保政策及法規執行各環境監測與污染防治助業"},{"start":4185.237,"end":4185.597,"text":"第二十五案"},{"start":4215.133,"end":4240.716,"text":"我們針對業務費用、服務費用、推展費這個預算數4,0139,000元這個部分港務公司主要是要辦理客運及觀光油氣、水岸開發業務等等我想這個觀光的部分我們都非常的關心也希望我們可以做得更好那我們也看到就是就會擴規量的話我剛剛有提到我們的諜府叫"},{"start":4241.517,"end":4243.82,"text":"2023年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算2022年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4256.374,"end":4275.162,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4275.162,"end":4301.471,"text":"我想可能最大宗就是那個第13個業務大概就是整個的行銷獎勵6億5他最主要是我們在113年我們行銷獎勵金主要就是你這個貨櫃量的獎勵1.23億這個就是包含那個船舶卸轉或專案的那個獎勵"},{"start":4302.931,"end":4328.078,"text":"另外還有加上就是高雄港的我們增加那個轉口櫃大概17萬2另外還有就是藍色公路的獎勵是0.35億這個最主要就是減少那個貨櫃車在高速公路車流量24萬車次另外就是港口的那個數位轉型0.2億"},{"start":4329.838,"end":4331.839,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4351.572,"end":4363.025,"text":"並有兩千艘次的捷徑船舶到岸臺灣港口那今年齁其實剛剛也召委會講就是2022、2023是剛好是"},{"start":4366.869,"end":4389.957,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4390.057,"end":4418.425,"text":"那所以我們希望就是說這一個獎勵的話我們是用這到午上那114年我們稍微有編就是配合配獎委員還有講有一些脫傳或需要協助的我們都會在這裡來談信來應用這樣因為這一個是真的是一方面就是可以增加我們的收入那一方面也可以業者本來是像我們現在七櫃全部給長榮了長榮他整個是以高雄港作為母港"},{"start":4419.005,"end":4441.777,"text":"那去年的話他有講說大概今年不到400萬多明年他說他有講400以上起跳可以到4或是400以上跟委員補充報告就是說像基隆港的這個貴廠也有獎勵他們只要符合這個規定他都可以提出來都可以申請他們也都有申請那"},{"start":4444.359,"end":4471.978,"text":"明年我們重點在於說未來比如說它的那個運具啊或是像說電動對高機啊這些機具呢如果原來是用有的如果改成買電的我們都有獎勵我們都有補助希望說我們共同一起來努力來降低我們的碳排這樣子那所以說整個這個案子呢其實是多面向的鼓勵我們的行商能夠跟我們一起齁"},{"start":4473.22,"end":4485.937,"text":"結能減碳、落實這個環保的一個得益議題這樣子這個是我們一起在努力的部分對不起我要補充那請問一下當初自營櫃場被監察院檢討的一件事情後來案子怎麼樣了?"},{"start":4487.663,"end":4505.585,"text":"檢察院的說我們基隆港的基隆港的自營櫃場被被檢察院有有時候報告說基隆基隆基隆基隆港的自營櫃場與明真立這件案子後來怎麼樣了?補充跟委員報告齁實際上是我們是不會主動去拉拉這個船來"},{"start":4506.306,"end":4520.999,"text":"是如果有業者他選擇要靠我們的自營櫃場的話我們會接納的所以說我們是被動來服務我們的行商業者我們不會主動去跟以往所以我們的租金自營櫃場租金比別的地方便宜不是嗎"},{"start":4522.019,"end":4525.821,"text":"政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":4554.416,"end":4566.58,"text":"水電費凍結1000萬元我報告一下,因為這個都是給我們在港區的航商業者實際上是達到這個標準我們才會給,我們也不會亂給"},{"start":4569.781,"end":4596.603,"text":"第2、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算例如說貨櫃航商把航線拉到臺灣來像今年的鴻海事件就是那個波斯灣鴻海事件的時候我們獎勵措施就發揮了效用就增加了將近10萬Q所以說這個是很有效的第2個就是說航商業者因為我們有獎勵其他即使國際的"},{"start":4598.024,"end":4599.986,"text":"整個高雄港在今年我們跟他算起來"},{"start":4618.665,"end":4624.228,"text":"行銷獎勵的結果大概有增加整個30幾萬HU所以今年會達到920萬HU增加了4.2%比我們的經濟成長率都高所以這一個部分能不能請委員都協助一下謝謝"},{"start":4638.634,"end":4659.061,"text":"李崑澤委員其實我也是認同林佩祥委員認為說我們必須要監督港務公司要保持競爭力而且要促進貨運跟就業的成長有效提升港口的競爭力這我都支持林佩祥我都跟他想法都一樣"},{"start":4660.061,"end":4668.217,"text":"但是我們又要你們有競爭力喔你又把他砍那麼多錢喔還是要怎麼給你做事情而且凍結50%喔這個我想"},{"start":4673.387,"end":4702.159,"text":"凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%凍結20%"},{"start":4705.964,"end":4728.573,"text":"整個貨櫃行業景氣還沒那麼好我還有包括我們各項的一個獎勵剛剛已經報告過了已經到達了五億三千多萬那明年我們是一股會再成長所以說你如果凍結太多的話或是刪減太多的話我實際上是不夠不夠的話我就要必須要這個優惠獎勵措施就要減碼那坦白講"},{"start":4730.214,"end":4752.813,"text":"在競爭力上面我們是希望說如果能夠維持今年的一個量能我們希望說除了獎勵之外我們現在還在提升就是說整個貨櫃碼頭或所有的這個碼頭我們更新讓它效率會更好那我們朝向服務更好效率更好交通動線更好讓我們的業者能夠"},{"start":4753.993,"end":4776.42,"text":"更有吸引力在高雄港或是在其他的港口來有競爭力這是我們努力的一個方向報告林委員這番國融港給我們多一點支持啦,很抱歉啦拜託啦等一下等一下,那個林培祥委員,讓林培祥委員再講完再"},{"start":4777.24,"end":4794.604,"text":"好來謝謝主席齁那個等一下等一下那個軍縣委員等一下因為我想說林培祥委員那林軍縣委員謝謝好就剛林培祥委員關心的齁因為像我們那個貨櫃量這樣一直一直數量遞減下滑齁這確實是大家會關心的齁那你這種績效要做出來嘛"},{"start":4801.55,"end":4829.229,"text":"那我也提案啦因為這種預算每年都會遇到啦那請你港澳公司這裡自己墊出一個績效來就是說你跟金人江比你明年預金會成長多少你就跟我們委員會做個承諾嘛啊你如果做不到啊反正你沒想到每年都遇到他的我們做個負債決議做不成就再給你一次機會沒人來受益啊這個合理吧因為你要他提升他的競爭力"},{"start":4830.49,"end":4855.489,"text":"當然啦,小三一點預算是表示我們國會議員對你們表現得不滿意啦但是你給他砍太多他都不能做事情他明年又有理由啦你不給我錢做事啊我競爭力拉不上來啊所以不能提一個績效目標啦好不好林俊炫委員的建議很好啦那因為我看一下事實上我們港務公司他負責實施的範圍啊就是包括高雄港"},{"start":4856.289,"end":4864.236,"text":"基隆港、臺北港、臺中港及高雄港臺中港蔡其昌委員、高雄港林俊憲委員、李昆澤委員臺北林國成委員、基隆港林佩祥委員"},{"start":4875.365,"end":4901.32,"text":"所以我想這個是一個全國性的實施範圍所以這個部分是不是我們也都希望他們的績效更好所以是不是就是剛剛我們林俊憲委員他的一個建議你們要把那個績效定一個目標然後是不是等一下如果我們有決議書面報告的時候你們這個要含在內那我是不是在這邊建議一下當然我們"},{"start":4901.9,"end":4903.121,"text":"第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆第12屆"},{"start":4931.155,"end":4935.581,"text":"建議我們是不是就卓山好不好卓山一千萬好不好"},{"start":4937.362,"end":4961.951,"text":"主算一千萬,然後就凍結百分之二十,凍結百分之二十,就不要專案了啦好不好。專案的話真的,這三天呢。民委員,民委專案其實也是合理啦,也可以討論啦,但是就不要動那麼多啦。"},{"start":4963.091,"end":4981.004,"text":"10%喔不是啦不是啦那個董事長因為我說實在啦因為這個我們林委員他是很內行的你也知道他本來就是你們系統的人他一看到這個我說實在你們編這個預算根本你們自己都寫得不清不楚啦"},{"start":4981.744,"end":4984.085,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5000.035,"end":5017.969,"text":"我還是建議這個狀況報告一定要報告那你們如何訂定一些目標當然我們也知道你這個錢也不是亂編但是成果不佳是事實嘛那現在主席說三一千三一千你結得了三結一千我們"},{"start":5026.415,"end":5048.43,"text":"因為老實講我是每一個科目看得很細所以這個東西其實你們自己知道你們48頁寫得很爛如果我拿給我們旁邊的委員看到會覺得說包山包海6億5千萬就不見了那現在這個東西沒有出來這個東西如果跟我們出來的話我還會再檢討因為這每一個案子我就覺得奇怪這個錢好像跟我看到的時效不太一樣"},{"start":5049.651,"end":5078.107,"text":"不是,各位,別的地方我不敢講,航港局我沒有動,因為是建立站。港務公司說真的我會嚴格審查,因為很多人有跟我講事情。所以拜託,如果預算要編的話,編列出來不要學說呼嚨呼嚨大家不會去看。好不好?好,那我們就是灼山1000萬元,然後如果凍結20%就書面報告了,好不好?"},{"start":5078.482,"end":5086.811,"text":"因為如果要專案我們就實啦因為不是專案的話一定要專案之後他們才能動之才能解凍"},{"start":5089.896,"end":5105.227,"text":"對啦,而且每個交通委員會在排議程有時候會常常碰到特定的時事議題在排議程也很難去管理費用、工作、乘鎖、電費、凍結10%、刪減400萬元、提案人有耗等"},{"start":5108.609,"end":5120.913,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5121.075,"end":5123.076,"text":"六、管理費用專業服務費凍結10%凍結10%凍結10%凍結10%"},{"start":5147.955,"end":5173.272,"text":"六、繼續審查管理費用材料及用品費檢列應平均零千元提案人要審查等。OK好那我們就來處理啦我們就來做一個決議就是第三到三十案服務費用那個服務費用向下業務費用服務費用暫儲包裝代理及交工費那個預算數"},{"start":5175.013,"end":5191.077,"text":"六億六千零二十五萬六千元我們灼山一千萬元然後凍結百分之十然後提專案報告後使得凍支。好,就這樣。我們就並案處理啦。並案處理好不好。"},{"start":5199.359,"end":5209.243,"text":"固定資產建設改良擴充專案計畫加強推動公共建設計畫凍結十分之一我們接下來處理第三到31案"},{"start":5229.446,"end":5249.671,"text":"第三十一到三十六案。不好意思。那我們針對材料及用品費用預算數一億兩百八十三萬四千元我們這部分來進行處理。那請問提案委員那個林俊憲委員臺鐵公司自籌款凍結10%提案人劉明哲等"},{"start":5251.191,"end":5276.439,"text":"謝謝主席、各位同仁。本期提第三次案。剛剛那個我們公司都一直在提的我們的綠色港口、節能減碳、降低碳排。但是我們本期第三次案提的就是,那你明年的燃料費,這些燃料費就是供船舶、船橋、卡車、堆高機、發電機、還有機械使用的燃油,你增加了快四成,增加了37.5%。"},{"start":5278.32,"end":5297.836,"text":"那跟你所謂的順應國際和政府綠色能源政策建立綠色港口目標這不是背道而馳嗎那明年預算這裡預算你不要增加那麼多啦怎麼增加到快要4成北極建立卓山100萬那待會也請說明謝謝謝謝林居憲委員接下來邀請邱若驊委員"},{"start":5305.982,"end":5309.465,"text":"第三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5330.583,"end":5356.188,"text":"可是預算書裏面還有特別編列給紙本報章雜誌有那種左手種樹右手砍樹的感覺現在很多報章雜誌都可以電子化了所以本席冬節本預算百分之五也希望港務公司在兩個月內可以盤點相關紙本報章雜誌的實際情況還有電子化的情況提供書面報告那第35案那港務公司他編列傳播卡車對高階還有發電機等機械擁有高達1100"},{"start":5359.889,"end":5377.073,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5377.213,"end":5381.095,"text":"謝謝主席,我想請教港務公司,你們這個是有關臺北港的那些防風的那些樹嗎?"},{"start":5397.423,"end":5422.944,"text":"就是我知道臺北港在養港是那些是包括那些樹嗎就是那些種種那些樹去去去避免流沙是不是那如果那要講清楚啊那這個這個這個就很重要這不講清楚要講這些什麼財用費用費誰會看得誰會看得懂啊因為我在臺北港待過啊臺北港那邊不是那個現在樹種的怎麼樣了所以那邊附屬防止防止泥沙流沙那個樹種怎麼樣"},{"start":5424.205,"end":5441.501,"text":"這是包括在裡面還是別的項目?如果查出來是別的項目的話就麻煩囉那個北物流區有那個黃楓林帶對不對我們現在就是填到哪裡做到哪裡都有在種樹齁而且"},{"start":5442.302,"end":5453.428,"text":"那個綠帶蠻寬的,就50到100米都很寬,所以說我們會努力來做,而且包括臺中港的北溢沙區,這個都有在種樹,我們全省9個港都有在種。那我改這個科目改3減900萬改為凍結10%"},{"start":5465.862,"end":5466.383,"text":"李佩祥委員"},{"start":5475.444,"end":5497.876,"text":"好,那個針對那個委員會所關心的就是一些燃料的問題最主要就是說我們大概114年有增加一個挖泥船還有浚深的那另外在我們的那個港區的拖船他現在沒有辦法電動還是需要燃料"},{"start":5498.456,"end":5518.865,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":5518.865,"end":5537.654,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5537.714,"end":5557.209,"text":"好,謝謝請問提案委員還有要再提問的嗎?沒有的話我們就來做處理那第31到36案材料及用品費我們提案委員都有提刪減案那我們是不是也著刪剛剛我們林委員主張要凍結10%"},{"start":5568.458,"end":5571.942,"text":"主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":5586.378,"end":5592.928,"text":"接下來我們來處理第37到45案營業成本的部分我們預算數是122億1288萬6千元我們提案委員徐富奎委員謝謝"},{"start":5601.64,"end":5603.961,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5617.947,"end":5641.398,"text":"降到111年的671萬那尤其這個疫後各國增強一個觀光潮那港務公司針對各國的這個國際郵輪盡快復航的部分也有推出了國際郵輪靠婆免收碼頭費還有旅客服務費至少7成等措施那截至就是造成112年營業的損失高達1億6562萬"},{"start":5646.84,"end":5666.288,"text":"113年截至7月營業損失也高達7200多萬我們要求港務公司除了要加強國際行銷之外也應該繼續優化一個旅運的服務我提案凍結營業成本的1億元請港務公司能夠提出一個檢討的措施"},{"start":5668.169,"end":5690.871,"text":"那38案的部分有鑒於玻璃集的貨櫃船天使輪112年7月在高雄港外海沉沒那截至目前為止還沒有完全移除那到今年7月港務公司預估天使輪的一個善後代追的一個代償款高達2億6600多萬那至今也求償無果"},{"start":5691.691,"end":5697.615,"text":"本席也提出提案凍結營業成本5000萬元請港務公司針對傳遞移除的作業能夠進行檢討並積極辦理針對第39案有鑒於港務公司從110年到112年離岸封店這個業務收入介於140%到362%之間"},{"start":5712.085,"end":5738.245,"text":"那最究其原因就是因為部分的業者在預算編列合約到期之後不確定是否繼續承租那也是受到疫情的影響中廠的一個廠商無法如期的開工組裝造成工程的一個延誤那造成業者有這個短期的助力需求造成港務公司的預算評估失準那我們也要求凍結營業成本的5000萬那也督促港務公司針對這樣一個"},{"start":5739.466,"end":5750.18,"text":"離岸風電的業務加強合約的一個管理的機制然後也掌握業者的動態那請我們港務公司針對這三案提出書面報告使得動之以上說明"},{"start":5750.663,"end":5777.203,"text":"好,謝謝徐副國委員接下來邀請黃建豪委員好,謝謝昭偉那我們在這個向下我們提的我是提40案跟42案那40案針對的就是我們港區的各項空屋的這個檢測的標準跟檢測的成果我們希望說那檢測是一回事啦但是同時檢測完之後到底那個每年的空屋有沒有下降我們港區的這個整個空屋還有包含像台中港這邊"},{"start":5778.264,"end":5781.726,"text":"事由．立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11"},{"start":5805.537,"end":5833.196,"text":"後續的處理費用目前都是由我們自己來處理來吸收那要怎麼樣追償什麼球場像這樣如果一來一燒然後就是有2億6千多萬拿不回來那我未來如果再來幾張如果都發生類似的事情我想當然他們不會願意發生但是我發生之後我們要怎麼樣善後那到底你們要怎麼去約束跟規範這些國際郵輪經過臺灣周遭海域的時候他要提出怎麼樣擔保還是說就是他如果成了就算了那追不到就算了因為"},{"start":5833.916,"end":5834.836,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5860.745,"end":5870.761,"text":"好謝謝黃建豪委員好那還有沒有提案委員要提問如果沒有我們就來做處理那我們是不是請那個李董事長要不要做一個說明"},{"start":5873.997,"end":5876.8,"text":"國際郵輪今年到港432艘,明年預報610艘,人次、艘次增加"},{"start":5890.919,"end":5895.422,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5916.798,"end":5920.3,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":5947.198,"end":5948.359,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":5968.385,"end":5970.906,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府公司營業預算一、繼續審查114年度中央政府公司"},{"start":5996.579,"end":5999.202,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6011.656,"end":6037.467,"text":"另外就是黃委員最主要就是你這個3600最主要是永續報告書的話我們在臺中港的花店配合火力花店這一個我們都有一些能夠進行政策轉型所以我們有訂定就是國際山港的空屋房子比如說在船舶減速船舶使用低流還有擴大的岸電使用這些我們其中有降到"},{"start":6038.047,"end":6040.33,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":6058.134,"end":6076.808,"text":"好那謝謝呃李董事長的說明齁那呃如果沒有其他的要再提問的問題我們就來做一個處理那第37到45案呃委員提的都是凍結案齁那呃比起在這邊是不是我們建議就凍結1億元然後提書面報告後使得凍支好好不好好那我們呃第37到45案營業成本我們凍結1億元提書面報告後使得凍支"},{"start":6087.099,"end":6113.715,"text":"接下來我們來處理第46到58案營業費用的部分預算數是34億2724萬元好那我們提案委員林俊憲委員謝謝主席 還有佩翔委員 再次提第58案那經說明以後我同意給你凍結兩百萬好謝謝林俊憲 還是凍結十分之一嘛那現在同意凍結兩百萬兩百萬好那接下來邀請林佩翔委員"},{"start":6118.132,"end":6123.776,"text":"我的提案是48案、50案、52案跟57案前面三個案子48案、50案、52案我都願意改動解10%但是有關第57案有關這個港務公司的研究發展費用"},{"start":6135.623,"end":6137.964,"text":"從112年年就發展費用從1788萬直接增到後來113年的時候變成2860萬到今年居然暴增到6594萬"},{"start":6159.29,"end":6169.225,"text":"所以說這個整個來講我想知道說我想很清楚的知道說為什麼會能夠說暴增這麼多直接暴增4千萬"},{"start":6176.718,"end":6178.519,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6195.356,"end":6219.101,"text":"好謝謝主席本席提474955我本來這三個案都是有刪減那現在改為凍結那49案我是建議要凍結20%其他的部分還是尊重主席做裁定那我刪減的部分改為凍結好謝謝林國成委員那我們現在請李董事長說明"},{"start":6223.07,"end":6233.835,"text":"注意度是研究發展以往都是那個航港局他們在做那在106年到120年那個5年的那個港的計畫在113年的話就轉由港務公司來來來來來來那個辦理"},{"start":6244.301,"end":6247.346,"text":"本來是航港基金編在那邊所以多出來就4600萬"},{"start":6255.85,"end":6279.59,"text":"等於說我們自己來做了以前是那個經費在航港局以前在經費在航港局那裡那現在是移到我們這裡來這個就是五年的計劃另外就是另外相關的就是有一些是資安的一些錢也是有增加"},{"start":6282.961,"end":6285.104,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6299.619,"end":6304.665,"text":"好,謝謝李董事長的說明,他的意思是我改為第57案,我改為3減300萬,然後要凍結10%提出面報告給我57案了喔57案,3減300萬,然後凍結10%提出面報告給我OK,好,那我們"},{"start":6314.978,"end":6317.919,"text":"第16到58案營業費用3減300萬元凍結10%提書面報告後時的凍資。接下來我們處理第59案。59案的部分是有溝通測案嗎?"},{"start":6341.323,"end":6343.564,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":6381.616,"end":6388.281,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":6396.08,"end":6414.733,"text":"第59案在這邊宣告就是第59案營業外費用的提案就是提案委員同意撤案接下來我們處理第60到67案固定資產建設改良擴充計劃預算數是108億2669萬3000元請問提案委員要不要提問那請問林國成委員"},{"start":6433.702,"end":6449.815,"text":"本席是提66案那66案我想本來我刪的是1億多那經過溝通以後了解也認為就著刪500萬那科目自行調整那其他的話就不動"},{"start":6453.149,"end":6475.319,"text":"六十六、六十七一併謝謝海貿委員想要提問林國成委員主席主席我那個六十七的部分是還要再刪六百萬那我本來是刪三千多但是這個經過溝通以後他們也同意"},{"start":6475.999,"end":6487.787,"text":"就是不適當的我一例的就把它那個三、六百萬那個都經過國通的其他我就沒有一些OK好那呃是不是就請港務公司這邊做說明"},{"start":6490.113,"end":6512.5,"text":"這個最主要是66萬我們現在那個新的旅營大樓我們人員大概有進駐到10個樓層那另外也在委外一個遠船已進駐到第10樓那其餘的4到7樓我們是配合高雄市政府來配合招商所以我們在訪問HTC、IBM還有鴻海合作是相關的"},{"start":6513.34,"end":6533.349,"text":"另外,比較屬於公共設施的部分就是群樓的部分那個我們都免稅張店由捧房那餐飲由誠意酒店來那個成租這個群樓的一些公共設施大概相關的都已經招租出去了那我們繼續再努力"},{"start":6534.741,"end":6538.803,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6552.662,"end":6571.366,"text":"我們如果沒有其他委員要想要再進一步提問我們就來做處理了啦吼那就是剛剛林國松也有一案主張要刪500然後第67案刪600那我們是不是我們也就建議著刪就整數1000萬啦好不好"},{"start":6574.548,"end":6580.53,"text":"第60至67項固定資產建設改良擴充計劃3減1000萬元科目自行調整"},{"start":6599.059,"end":6627.836,"text":"好,我遵照辦理。好,那我們接下來就處理第68到86案,局1案。好,我們第68案。遵照辦理。好,那照案通過。第69案。遵照辦理。好,照案通過。第70案。遵照辦理。好,照案通過。第71案。遵照辦理。好,照案通過。第72案。"},{"start":6629.391,"end":6643.703,"text":"有一些文字修正就是改書面專案報告改書面專案報告改書面有跟提案委員溝通過好那我們就照文字修正後通過那第73案專案辦理專案通過第74案"},{"start":6649.207,"end":6651.689,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6665.526,"end":6687.983,"text":"第75案 存照辦理 照案通過 第76案 文字修正 邱委員他有同意有文字修正 那我們就照這個文字修正後通過"},{"start":6690.689,"end":6700.692,"text":"第二、繼續審查117年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查117年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查117年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查117年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6714.397,"end":6722.373,"text":"這個文字修正要專案報告改成書面報告。好,那照文字修正後通過第81案。本案遵照辦理。"},{"start":6722.807,"end":6745.674,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6746.317,"end":6763.864,"text":"好,那針對臺灣港務公司114年度營業預算這個預算提案處理完畢好,休息五分鐘我們換場一下那我們接下來就是處理臺鐵公司"},{"start":6769.85,"end":6770.33,"text":"臺鐵跟臺鐵去撥入就結束了。"},{"start":6796.72,"end":6801.867,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6813.062,"end":6813.222,"text":"改進改進"},{"start":6843.975,"end":6845.376,"text":"市長市長市長市長"},{"start":6867.35,"end":6868.11,"text":"目前有什麼事?"},{"start":6895.763,"end":6903.95,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6915.38,"end":6931.131,"text":"我可能等一下找個地方打球,在臺北打個球啊休息一下沒有啦,我們好像沒人做完打啊沒關係,我跟董事長講過,就是講經濟發展,有關金融房屋的房屋,我不能講我懂,可是我感受到"},{"start":6938.536,"end":6942.537,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":6967.751,"end":6976.356,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算。"},{"start":6998.134,"end":7008.987,"text":"好那我們現在繼續開會我們接下來處理交通部國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司我們就是請就位我們就繼續來開會喔"},{"start":7012.489,"end":7028.615,"text":"好那我們現在處理交通部國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司114年度附屬單位預算那我們首先來處理第一到第七案營業收入的部分那這部分啊我們呃就是請這個提案委員有沒有要提問的呃猜其三委員嘿開始啊"},{"start":7041.089,"end":7066.582,"text":"好謝謝主席齁這個台鐵公司啊本席提了幾個案子啦齁那當然第一個案子主要還是因為台鐵公司啊這個新車啊陸續都開始投入營運啊公司台鐵也公司化那首年啊這個虧損啊這個120億嘛齁"},{"start":7071.229,"end":7096.658,"text":"那看起來明年從預算的展現上面看起來也不大妙,看起來也不大妙所以本席一直對台鐵從根本的問題公司化之後應該會有一個大的革新那相關的這些收入這個除了便當之外其他的看起來我都覺得不是太滿意"},{"start":7098.058,"end":7125.397,"text":"所以呢會進行第一個部分在於來這個勞務收入啊增列120萬其實是一個態度的表達啦增加120萬說實在話臺鐵齁這個腳趾頭動一動就可以增加了啦但是本席覺得在交通委員會裡面我的態度必須要清楚讓臺鐵公司知道這個臺鐵公司啊要怎麼樣能夠精進能夠"},{"start":7128.018,"end":7134.743,"text":"全體委員會第11屆第2會期交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算有限公司營業預算"},{"start":7157.523,"end":7182.21,"text":"那我要求在增加在租賃成本上面給予這個凍結甚至後面的人力或者安全其實都只是本席的一個態度的展現那怎麼樣決定本席會尊重主席的裁決但是我想我必須要利用一開始的時候先將本席對台鐵公司的態度在這裡做一個說明謝謝"},{"start":7183.902,"end":7213.094,"text":"好,謝謝蔡啟昌委員那針對營業收入的部分還有沒有委員要提問跟希望了解的如果沒有的話我們那李坤澤委員相關的一至七案我看也有勞務收入要增略或是客運收入編列或是貨運收入要增加啦那這部分請台鐵來做簡單的說明一下好不好"},{"start":7213.956,"end":7229.591,"text":"好,那請杜董事長說明一下,你們可以增加多少?好,是,那個謝謝趙偉根委員的提示那臺北公司其實在明年度我們的客戶收的預算我們已經"},{"start":7230.678,"end":7248.635,"text":"叫今年的預算我們已經增加5億多但是我們還是非常有企圖心的剛剛我也有提及包括我們新車投入我們預期在明年我們的運能還會繼續的提升當然我們相對我們也會把服務再做得更好"},{"start":7249.836,"end":7266.736,"text":"另外就是今年比較去年其實我們在公司元年的第一年其實我們在客運的部分我們也是有所提升的大概叫去年大概收入的部分叫去年就增加了差不多7%左右"},{"start":7270.14,"end":7290.451,"text":"這個尤其在我們11月到12月這個期間我們有更好的一個成長所以剛剛委員的這個提示我們公司會再竭盡全力來處理這個要更努力了那個報告召委我看我們就更具體了那"},{"start":7292.533,"end":7316.895,"text":"我是建議有關於勞務收入、客運收入、貨運收入我們增列一千萬增列一千萬這表示對臺鐵的期許跟壓力那我建議美語凍結這三個部分以上好謝謝李昆哲委員的建議那其他營業收入的部分呢還是要全部一併出好那個林國成委員"},{"start":7319.364,"end":7337.428,"text":"本席提兩個案第二案跟第三案第二案的部分我同意我們崑澤委員要針對本來我是想說針對一億經過溝通說明以後我還是贊成說一千萬到兩千萬因為我看"},{"start":7345.709,"end":7366.76,"text":"我為了台鐵我去做了好幾次的台鐵我從來不做台鐵的那確確實實是有所改變啦有所改變所以這個業績應該可以再提升啦可以再提升第一個我很在乎的就是衛生跟準時的問題他們都有改進"},{"start":7367.94,"end":7391.365,"text":"做過以後確確實實大家是有所感觸改為國營公司化我是認為這個應該要提升一點所以在一千萬到兩千萬另外就是第三案的部分我也希望也把它針對一下因為我在看營業收入的部分"},{"start":7392.406,"end":7421.552,"text":"也就是我看最近的報表啊業績一直成長所以我在這裡建議啊就是還是要增累啊這個多增加五千萬左右好不好好謝謝林國成委員那五千萬可以嗎臺鐵公司可以啦那我們就來處理啦好不好那個報告早有五千萬我們來就是合併啦就是一併包括營業收入"},{"start":7422.832,"end":7447.904,"text":"自行調整客戶預算我們就是併案處理第一到七案就是營業收入的部分包括勞務收入還有其他營業收入我們就是增列五千萬元然後科目自行調整我們接下來處理第八到十七案服務費用預算數是六十三億七千零六十六萬九千元鄰居縣委員"},{"start":7448.769,"end":7470.161,"text":"好 謝謝感謝主席本期題第10案是我們的服務費用旅運費明年編的9571萬那裡面有很多的項目其中包括剛剛有提到臺鐵我們賣便當的那些人力這一點我要特別提醒臺鐵因為便當賣便當對臺鐵非常重要臺鐵一年賣了920萬個便當"},{"start":7476.841,"end":7502.541,"text":"其實是被火車耽誤的便當店一年可以收入7億5千萬臺鐵掛牌一年來虧損比去年多今年大概會虧120億吧那只有便當店還能夠成長但是很多旅客跟我反映因為我們賣便當的都是一些工時的人員有的態度都很不好不要忘記便當是臺鐵的命脈"},{"start":7505.279,"end":7532.865,"text":"你那個你那個服務態度真的要改善因為我也已經買過了我已經買過了另外你在這個零費向下還有一個出國那有一個是跟日本交流那這個推了很多年就是台日友好票券交流活動就互相可以換火車票了我們去日本可以換日本火車票日本人來我們這裡可以換台鐵的火車票開通第一年"},{"start":7534.338,"end":7543.627,"text":"日本人來臺灣只換5張那臺灣人去日本換了742張那今年啊日本人來這裡換了573張換了17張啊臺灣人去那邊換了570幾張所以可見了這個績效很不好啦日本人來臺灣搭乘台鐵意願不佳或者是不知道"},{"start":7555.879,"end":7585.122,"text":"那你既然把這一點列為你推廣的項目那你就應該要有一個考核嘛所以你這樣花這筆錢有用嗎?所以本席啊我有提三檢啦和凍結啦吼因為旅運費那你自己挪啦旅運費9571萬三五百萬凍結十分之一然後三個月內提報告好謝謝好謝謝林旭憲委員接下來還有沒有委員要提問李坤澤委員沒有"},{"start":7587.246,"end":7592.638,"text":"剛才已經有做初步的說明那我們就請杜董事長這邊說明"},{"start":7595.491,"end":7617.186,"text":"謝謝委員的提點的確我們的便當業務在公司元年是有成長預計今年可以達到7.5億可是其實我們的本業在今年也是有成長成長幅度也差不多是7%這個是我們尤其需要更努力的地方"},{"start":7618.548,"end":7634.422,"text":"剛剛委員有提及有關於便當的販售包括製作這個人力我們會來改善來補足因為這個人力補上來以後這個服務態度我們會特別注意"},{"start":7635.203,"end":7659.265,"text":"另外第二部分就是出國票券交換其實在臺鐵局時代是行之有年但是我們在臺鐵局時代可能我們負責任的單位可能積極度不夠那我們改公司以後我舉例像明年我們跟西武鐵道我們10週年那我們就會有新的票券交換的一個做法"},{"start":7659.705,"end":7669.464,"text":"我們希望能夠平衡讓那邊過來的客人也可以享受到我們臺鐵這邊的優惠的一個票券那我們明年會積極來推動"},{"start":7672.741,"end":7698.455,"text":"好謝謝那我們接下來邀請林國成委員發言再繼續請林俊賢委員好那個主席因為我本席提第9案跟第17案我還是第9案啦就小三一下好不好那我那個對啦小三一下啦齁那第17案我要特別跟杜董事長因為我要求你們補資料"},{"start":7700.556,"end":7725.852,"text":"你們也不補資料所以我建議3減800萬因為叫你們補資料我可以用凍結的方式你們也不補資料 我也覺得說現在是被爆辦刪掉太久了還是要全數刪除為什麼不補資料 可以說明一下嗎好 我們等一下統一說明那繼續鄰居縣委員"},{"start":7728.662,"end":7755.704,"text":"謝謝主席,不是要提第16案,一樣是在我們專業服務費裡面,它有一個向下是保險和保全費用現在大家都注意到,特別關注到車站還有車廂的安全問題那台鐵為了提升這個安全,我們都有花錢提升保險和保全結果今年的8月,大林車站我們有一位台鐵的女性站務員遭到乘客的攻擊"},{"start":7757.441,"end":7780.814,"text":"同樣在8月有民眾闖入軌道區堆疊石頭堆石頭大概需要一些時間結果堆完石頭也沒有被人發現造成泰魯格奧撞上這個石頭堆使班次當然一定會塞車影響到後續的乘客權益因為九月羅東站也有站務員受到旅客攻擊"},{"start":7782.597,"end":7808.698,"text":"所以看起來我們車站保全能力到底它執行績效我是很質疑我認為要維護我們站務員甚至乘客的安全同時也沒有辦法有效攔阻民眾入侵軌道那這一點我認為這嚴重影響到安全性所以北京提凍結十分之一在提台鐵真的這一點提出報告來謝謝好謝謝林俊憲委員接下來邀請李坤澤委員"},{"start":7809.398,"end":7816.78,"text":"我針對第12案來提出一個簡單的詢問這個專業服務費是編列了5億7965萬元那其實看起來是比113年度預算增加了4477萬元"},{"start":7827.014,"end":7848.096,"text":"那這個部分我本來是認為這應該臺鐵目前的營運狀況還是虧損的狀態我認為應該要更加的尊潔相關的支出那後來我了解這個相關的費用當然是包括隧道、邊坡、橋樑以及其他基礎設施的巡檢等等"},{"start":7848.917,"end":7873.216,"text":"那我看了一下預算也更清楚說應該是這個預算主要增加的原因是因為花蓮的金屋段他的這些土壤以及地下水污染的這些整治的場子還有土壤及地下水污染整治的工作等等那增加預算是不是這個主要原因請台鐵說明一下我是可以同意不予刪減以上"},{"start":7874.875,"end":7890.352,"text":"好,謝謝李昆哲委員。好,那針對以上幾位委員的提問,請杜董事長回覆。好,謝謝各位委員。那首先是那個剛剛我們林俊賢委員,啊,林俊賢委員等一下最後我們請我們同仁來說明。"},{"start":7892.453,"end":7916.366,"text":"這個林俊憲委員關心的就是有關於我們在路線上的維安以及我們在車站我們同仁執勤的這個其實我們在今年我們針對這兩個部分我們都有在公司內部進行研究那分兩個部分這車上服勤的人員我們明年開始我們會研議來增加他們的安全配備"},{"start":7918.087,"end":7931.199,"text":"車站的部分因為車站是比較廣域的所以我們會我們已經演繹了就是要增強車站跟我們保全還有入境的聯繫以及我們車站的監控設備的連線這個很重要"},{"start":7935.363,"end":7964.05,"text":"但是這些都是剛剛講的都是在我們這個科目向下專業服務費所以我們這個會提書面我們會詳細的來做一個說明剛剛那個李君哲李委員提示的其實在專業服務費向下還有一個很重要的就是橋樑邊坡的巡檢橋樑邊坡巡檢因為現在我們包括供電人力我們目前還是"},{"start":7965.251,"end":7982.887,"text":"就是在改善中那在改善之前呢這些具有專業性的巡檢的工作我們也是用專業服務費向下好 這個可以啦我覺得這個很重要那我就同意不予刪檢以上好 謝謝那個林國成委員的那個"},{"start":7987.522,"end":8005.112,"text":"有關那個林委員所指教的是有關我們那個推展費的部分那因為我們這個推展費的部分大部分就用在廣告刊登跟活動宣傳跟業務聯繫所需的這個費用啦那所以這部分有邊有這兩百多萬以上報告"},{"start":8006.578,"end":8025.778,"text":"好謝謝說明齁那林國成委員這邊我補充報告一下齁那個林國成委員剛剛要的資料我們會趕快提供齁不過為什麼為什麼沒有是是是好好"},{"start":8032.355,"end":8043.243,"text":"好,那這個委員的要求你們應該會前都要做好資料的提供跟溝通。抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉抱歉"},{"start":8054.392,"end":8079.198,"text":"因為他有案者幫他說明一下就是在第11案國外禮費的部分因為我們大部分都是到日本去嘛那日本其實這幾年的幣值都貶得還蠻兇的啦那但是我們的支出好像並沒有相對應的因為台幣對日幣的升值而有所減少啦那當然盧委員是希望我們台的公司能夠做個檢討"},{"start":8080.638,"end":8096.509,"text":"另外第13案的專業服務費就是從1、2、3、1、4到當然1、1、3今年的政府是最大的3、1、4變5、1、3到明年度的5、1、8左右都政府是還滿"},{"start":8098.206,"end":8104.272,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8118.314,"end":8135.892,"text":"那與民眾之間的一些糾紛如果說全部都是用輕鬆來解決的話可能也不是一個最好的方式但是我們的出動的費用卻漲幅達到了20多%那希望這部分也能夠做一些檢討這以上是我們陸委員的意見這樣子"},{"start":8136.8,"end":8160.923,"text":"好謝謝那針對亮仙翔委員的提問那我們請董事長這邊說明好謝謝好謝謝委員那個首先是我們專業服務的法律事務費的部分其實我們並不是說跟民眾的案件有增加我們主要是因為我們在資產運用還有我們公司其他一些這個對外有行政接觸的這些業務那所以才會有這個"},{"start":8161.885,"end":8168.246,"text":"提升的這個增加的需求這個我們沒有說特別有針對民眾的部分"},{"start":8169.11,"end":8195.69,"text":"那另外就是剛剛就是盧委員這邊有提到的像那個出國費用出國費用其實日本雖然現在幣值減少但是他在這個交通跟這個住宿的部分其實並沒有並沒有減少實質上出去的可能購物會有一點影響但我們出去考察我們也不是以購物為目的所以這個部分還是懇請能夠給我們維持"},{"start":8199.053,"end":8199.206,"text":"政府總預算案附屬單位預算。"},{"start":8201.566,"end":8202.907,"text":"第8到17案服務費用的部分"},{"start":8231.306,"end":8236.368,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通部主管臺灣公司營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣公司"},{"start":8253.717,"end":8254.918,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":8275.146,"end":8301.405,"text":"好謝謝謝謝好謝謝那我們接下來處理第18案第18案的部分這個保障勞工工作安全與健康降低職業災害勞工健檢費勞安配備及教育經費等那我們預算數是8916萬4千元那我們請提案委員黃建豪委員好謝謝昭偉這這個部分我跟大家提跟大家"},{"start":8302.83,"end":8323.756,"text":"講一下就是昨天他們也有來說明但是昨天說明的過程還是不太能夠接受就是說其實這件事情是這樣過去臺鐵轉任這個轉公司之前本來就有所謂的指安的人員那當初的條件都是希望說具有什麼護理師或是證書或者是這個勞工健康服務合格證書等等的是有這個條件的"},{"start":8325.096,"end":8350.677,"text":"現在公司化之後本來這些職安人員從以前的這個制度現在轉到公司化之後他們的職級被降到就直接他們說臺北公司說是平轉轉到11屆但是如果轉到11屆的話按照臺北公司化之後的11屆的人員他只需要這個高中職以上的學校畢業證書等等的條件就可以了所以說其實對這些職安人員來講的話"},{"start":8353.356,"end":8355.537,"text":"立法院第11屆第2會期交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":8370.981,"end":8371.781,"text":"事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8395.333,"end":8414.76,"text":"那這樣就不公平了那我一開始我本來進公司我進台鐵的時候我的我的條件是具備相關的這個專業性的那我現在進來之後我變成公司化之後我變成11屆我等於不需要專業我也可以在11屆那我那個我那個證照的意義在哪裡那同時他平轉過來之後現在11屆了但他11屆他還是要提供這些證書給你們去讓勞動勞動部去備查嗎"},{"start":8418.982,"end":8446.949,"text":"那其實這個等於你的這個職位是有問題的啊就是說你本來就有相關資格但評審過來之後反而他的待遇更差那你們同時又招考新的進來是9階的但是也要去變相關的職能那為什麼不用原來這批人呢好這也是我提出的相關動機希望你們提出一些檢討去對這些也有所交代不然說我本來已經辛辛苦苦的考上了結果你公司化之後反而我的待遇變差了而且並不是你沒需求哦你有需求哦所以你還招考新的"},{"start":8447.509,"end":8463.121,"text":"新的八階九階都是需要具備相關的職階這相關的職能才能到八階九階那你本來就一批人就有這些職能啦所以我覺得這是一個需要檢討的部分以上謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員黃建豪委員的主張蠻合理的啦是不是請杜董事長這邊說明一下"},{"start":8463.881,"end":8484.274,"text":"阿哥委員報告的確這個就是我們原來在臺鐵局任職但是他有執照那他擔任的工作在他要轉化為我們新的從業人員在轉換的過程中他只能轉到11屆了那這個部分我們會研議因為他有證照所以說他平行轉換到11屆以後怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":8487.682,"end":8490.408,"text":"再給他提升到89階的這個位階哈這個我們會回去會趕快來檢討然後我們也會提出這個書面報告"},{"start":8498.319,"end":8499.639,"text":"我們請提案委員林國成委員"},{"start":8528.166,"end":8529.367,"text":"二十一案三、三百萬二十六案改組結議"},{"start":8557.557,"end":8570.97,"text":"二十八案三兩百萬二十九案改為主決議三十案就尊重主席去做凍結之動作三十一案改主決議三十四案"},{"start":8572.831,"end":8594.662,"text":"三、五百萬三十五萬改為主結議那三十六萬的部分因為金額很大所以改為兩千萬所以以上做說明跟報告看公司這裡如何去解釋好謝謝林國成委員那我們還有沒有提案委員要提問的林俊憲委員謝謝"},{"start":8604.281,"end":8632.57,"text":"好謝謝主席本就提第33案這個也是民眾反映應該給臺鐵做個參考臺鐵的基屋維護費用裡面像這個包裝代理交通費這裡有編5億錢多其中有一個外包這筆錢99%都是外包例如其中有各型車輛的座椅部的整修還有我們車輛客車動力車的清潔洗車費用等等勞務外包"},{"start":8633.837,"end":8649.934,"text":"第一個有很多離合反應就台鐵區間車的座椅大家購併那個椅墊都也都變成白色的不管你原來的椅墊是不是藍色、紅色反正到最後都變白色的甚至有換黃或者是明顯的汙垢"},{"start":8652.022,"end":8670.213,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":8671.125,"end":8692.614,"text":"臺鐵一年的廁所清潔會員大家都編4億多嘛對不對4億5千萬各位想這筆錢幾乎全是外包那臺鐵的工作評比一直都很差那你既然是外包的錢那就應該要要求外包商這個我不知道有沒有做後續的績效的追蹤"},{"start":8694.736,"end":8695.917,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8711.519,"end":8711.819,"text":"李坤哲委員"},{"start":8737.06,"end":8762.916,"text":"好 謝謝那看來第19到41案其實也算臺鐵裡面的一些重要的經費預算的項目那我們來看它最主要有這些占物的費用、修理保養及保固還有一般房屋的修物費還有占物費用、修理保費那這些部分我們都知道臺鐵占非常的多"},{"start":8764.816,"end":8784.903,"text":"特等站、一等站、二等站、檢疫站、招呼站有很多站為了社會的責任所以很多站的維護保養負擔對臺北來說都是很重但是又不能不設站這是對社會,尤其是偏鄉地區有一個重要的責任"},{"start":8786.003,"end":8810.703,"text":"另外當然臺鐵是分成運工、機電在這個項目我看這個19我們的這個19到41案裡面最主要是在公務、電務、機務這三個項目這個都是整個臺鐵的算是主要器官了啦在預算要加三減什麼都要特別的小心"},{"start":8813.045,"end":8829.199,"text":"這個部分我比較具體的建議啦我們就19到41案我具體的建議也要請各位委員大家來共同討論也要尊重大家的意見我建議3.1千萬科目讓他們去調整"},{"start":8833.403,"end":8858.059,"text":"另外,相關剛才林國城委員提出相關的凍結或是阻絕一個部分,我就尊重委員會我再提醒,那些都佔物費用,房屋保固,我們要佔起來有夠多另外就是公務的維持費用、電務、機務,這些都是台鐵最重要的經費項目"},{"start":8859.6,"end":8873.533,"text":"但是也必須要讓臺鐵去加緊督促公司化之後必須提出更具體的效率跟成績以上好謝謝李崑澤委員接下來邀請黃建豪委員謝謝"},{"start":8876.315,"end":8877.716,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8892.91,"end":8893.751,"text":"對於長輩或對於年幼的小孩來講他是一個很難處理的一個狀況"},{"start":8915.464,"end":8916.665,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8933.72,"end":8935.341,"text":"第2、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":8953.726,"end":8955.067,"text":"臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算有限公司營業預算"},{"start":8981.678,"end":8985.761,"text":"黃建豪委員的提案及說明是非常正確的一年有4億要整理這些廁所的維護"},{"start":8998.952,"end":9020.851,"text":"杜董事長我們要給旅客更便捷的相關的服務跟感受我們也具體跟你經營我們對特等站、一等站當然沒有辦法說特等站、一等站、二等站、檢疫站、招呼站通通都要有更好的廁所的相關設施特等站跟一等站可以先來先做"},{"start":9021.732,"end":9026.853,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9044.707,"end":9063.894,"text":"杜董事長,這個很嚴肅,因為僅離開C2D維護在廁所的清潔但是讓民眾看到這樣的洗手間這個很重要,讓民眾在我們的車站有更人性更好的一個服務"},{"start":9066.233,"end":9076.838,"text":"臺鐵公司,你們去做啦。我想我們交通委員會會支持你這個預算啦。對不對,這變數會改善。特等站、一等站先做嘛。"},{"start":9079.097,"end":9107.211,"text":"好謝謝李坤澤文接下來邀請何欣淳委員好謝謝我在這一個預算科目上下是沒有提案但是有連署其他委員的提案是因為大家都很關心這一筆預算是用在站路的一個包括公廁跟公共設施一些清潔的維護那我還是以我個人從個人的感受其實是希望臺鐵應該是這樣子的一個角度去做精進"},{"start":9108.191,"end":9127.22,"text":"所謂個人感就是說使用的人那臺鐵的以客戶為尊那要以客戶為角度為主去看待每一個年齡層他對於臺鐵的這些公共設施的使用的感受這個其實我們可以訪民間企業"},{"start":9128.3,"end":9129.161,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9158.641,"end":9160.022,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":9178.803,"end":9180.144,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9197.842,"end":9210.701,"text":"你那個電梯那個指示牌動線有沒有清楚老人家要上你們的站二樓三樓去搭火車的時候我看不到你的動線指示牌啊"},{"start":9212.108,"end":9213.509,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9236.946,"end":9238.427,"text":"第3、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算第3、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9263.358,"end":9275.752,"text":"對臺鐵會有更多的信任因為如果像剛剛李委員還有很多委員講到的只要公測乾淨管理的好大家的第一印象就好那是一個信任感的問題"},{"start":9276.573,"end":9304.454,"text":"如果連公廁都管得不好的話那其他的管理怎麼會相信會有信任感呢所以我還是強烈的建議啦我是支持呼籲我們不同黨派的委員大家都來支持這個預算但是要給要求要給督促希望台鐵能夠盡速的來改善謝謝謝謝何新淳委員接下來邀請林國成委員那個杜董我請教一下我們車上的清潔"},{"start":9305.695,"end":9316.173,"text":"跟我們這筆事宜多的那種衛生改善有沒有一樣?或者分開的?車上啊,車上的清潔啊車上跟車站是分開的"},{"start":9320.17,"end":9344.671,"text":"車上清潔另外的,你們那個車上,對對對,你現在車上的這個是分開的,這事宜都是在我們各站裡面要去做改善作用,那另外就是車上這些清潔工作是歸清潔工作?對,車上還有我們車廂,包括外部。已經這個清潔公司在我們台鐵已經多久了?"},{"start":9345.911,"end":9348.952,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":9373.24,"end":9396.458,"text":"好啦好啦這個我跟你講齁我在執行的時候我非常重視衛生啦那個衛生啦我跟你講我們高鐵跟台鐵台鐵要跟它有拼命啦你這個衛生跟準時一定要做因為我很在乎這個我也希望我們公司化以後我們會做的比台鐵更好"},{"start":9397.639,"end":9421.768,"text":"這樣才有車票上啦所以我還是注意啊你們這些不能說變預算變成一大堆那票數人家的台鐵票到人家的高鐵票到清清氣氣啊台鐵這樣拉拉煞煞這樣不好啦好不好我是要跟你提醒這個啦好不好好那謝謝以上各位委員的意見那是不是請杜董事長這邊再簡單的回覆一下"},{"start":9422.928,"end":9446.861,"text":"謝謝各位委員跟召委我剛剛抱歉林國準委員剛剛講的我們沒有適時的遞送資料其實應該也是委員有在關心我們這個得標的廠商是不是都是長期固定在幾家這個資料第一個我們會趕快提供給委員第二個剛剛委員有垂詢的其實我們"},{"start":9449.682,"end":9470.337,"text":"現在車上跟車站這個清潔廠商的我們公開招標的結果他都會有一些不同都會有一些不同那這個詳細的我們會和會跟委員來說明那剛剛講的從那個李昆哲李委員還有何新成何委員還有這個"},{"start":9472.422,"end":9495.914,"text":"黃建華黃委員提的主要是大概重點是在第23案等案有關於我們這個廁所清潔還有就是我們通用設計還有就是對不同層級客人的友善性這個我要報告一下其實我們現在正在進行一個已經有做一個規劃就是我們剛剛講的"},{"start":9497.475,"end":9518.431,"text":"投等站跟一等站我們的一個廁所的一個改善我們會主戰來做改善那另外就是包括這個改善的項目有包括就是蹲室、坐室、馬桶的一個比例還有就是男生女生這個我們大號間的一個比例"},{"start":9519.491,"end":9546.334,"text":"這個我們會在整體的規劃裡面我們會把它做出來這個真的懇請還包括剛剛講通用設計的指標這個我們在通用設計我們有委員會我們有委員會是由我本人親自主持的有很多外部的委員各階層的這個我們會特別注意所以這個部分還是懇請各位委員能夠給我們充足的預算"},{"start":9547.191,"end":9563.129,"text":"另外回到剛剛第33跟34包括林俊憲林委員還有林國成委員提到的這個主要是我們現在新車我們包括900型跟3000型我們新車的座椅"},{"start":9564.17,"end":9590.115,"text":"那這個座椅當初因為我們台鐵輸送性質比較特別我們是像這個900型的區間車我們也有部分是拿來跑區間快車就是它行程會比較長所以座椅的舒適性我們當初的設計就不是像捷運這種硬邦邦的我們是希望它能舒適一點我們就採用了長毛的羊毛"},{"start":9590.815,"end":9608.137,"text":"的這個一面但是但是這個他也有缺點就是剛剛委員有提到他做久了會倒毛就變成白的而且呢他也不容易清理就是有一些髒污啊比如說旅客不小心那個紅茶弄上去哇那個要洗洗到乾淨比較困難"},{"start":9609.398,"end":9635.028,"text":"那這個我們已經有在研議我們利用這個要更換這個乙部的這個週期我們預定是在刪減我們會把這個乙部的材質再做一個優化我們可能會改採用同樣很舒適的羊毛的但是可能是用不織布的方式來做優化那所以這個改善我們也其實也是會擺在我們的這個規劃裡面"},{"start":9637.929,"end":9663.452,"text":"至於剛剛林國成委員有提到的這個剛剛已經做了初步說明就是我們對於這個車上清潔跟車廂的清潔還有車站的清潔其實我們公司原年我們的目標是車站的部分是外部評比我們要求所有參與評比的車站的公測都要拿到特育"},{"start":9664.193,"end":9687.521,"text":"但是很可惜沒有達到我們還有一個站隆溪站的公車沒有拿到特意物但是這個我相信我們明年我們一定全部車站的公車都要拿到這是外部評比不是我們公司自己去評的那至於其他一般common的這個車站的我們就照剛剛我有提報我們的改善規劃我們會納入來執行以上"},{"start":9690.762,"end":9695.563,"text":"謝謝杜董事長的說明我們知道臺鐵肩負著整個國內交通運輸的重責大任這個營業費用也可以說是臺鐵公司可以順利運作的一個真的是最主要的預算所以在這邊我們剛剛很多委員都有非常寶貴的意見也是希望就是說督促我們臺鐵公司要提升你們的服務品質我們知道這些費用也會"},{"start":9720.487,"end":9722.428,"text":"政府總預算案附屬單位預算：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":9748.157,"end":9772.149,"text":"然後凍結1億元然後提出書面後使得動之這樣好不好科目自行調整這個不是多少的問題那個那個因為剛剛很多委員都有建議啦因為這個真是一個公司營運的心臟啦因為不管是這個國營的或者是一般公司的營運營業費用"},{"start":9775.782,"end":9782.807,"text":"我們給他們機會啦因為他們也剛公司化剛公司化公司元年我們這個第一年我們小山1000啦"},{"start":9793.853,"end":9818.472,"text":"剛剛我們李崑澤有做一個補充啦因為我們的站齁不是不是所有的車站齁有大大小小一等站二等站齁還有張呼站等等齁這個需要維護的費用跟營運的費用真的蠻高的啦所以我們是不是就是好啦那就一千五好啦那就一千五好不好"},{"start":9821.912,"end":9843.4,"text":"是是,我們好好來做,我們好好來做是,那我們就這個營業費用的部分,我們決議就是營業成本,營業成本我們就是主要刪1500萬元,然後凍結10%,然後提出書面後,使得凍支,然後科目自行調整"},{"start":9847.739,"end":9849.423,"text":"凍結1億凍結1億就好了再修正修正以下我們營業成本有有"},{"start":9857.382,"end":9876.334,"text":"我們營業成本第19到41案營業成本的部分我們灼山1500萬元然後凍結1億元然後提出書面後使得動之然後科目自行調整好謝謝委員那主決議的部分我再宣告一下就第20案26案29案31案35案改組決議謝謝"},{"start":9901.595,"end":9907.557,"text":"維園提案改為主決議後,提案內容均改為向立法院交通委員會提出書面報告。"},{"start":9910.114,"end":9915.499,"text":"好,那我們現在接下來處理第42到69案營業費用好,那這部分預算數是21億5153萬4千元那我們提案委員徐富魁委員謝謝"},{"start":9926.721,"end":9952.926,"text":"謝謝昭偉我提出了第43到47案那43案的部分是針對臺鐵公司在太魯閣事故之後這個沿線的林軌工程跟高風險路段偵測安全防護措施的這部分本席是認為還做得不夠那尤其今年經歷凱米颱風還有山陀爾颱風也造成我們一些沿線的多處的山坡受損"},{"start":9954.206,"end":9964.016,"text":"顯見我們臺鐵公司對於鐵道周邊的一個潛勢危險的邊波盤點跟防護措施還是有不夠的地方所以我提案凍結營業費用5000萬那44案的部分是針對臺鐵公司自110年到113年截至7月份"},{"start":9972.404,"end":9995.313,"text":"有一部分的安全績效的指標沒有達成目標然後造成一些行車異常的事故那尤其今年的一到七月因為地震跟土石流造成的一個列車的一個異常事故也有三項指標沒有達成目標請見對於這個運輸安全的部分急需要檢討改善所以一樣提案凍結營業預算五千萬"},{"start":9998.374,"end":10024.703,"text":"45萬的部分是針對我想我們還是要幫我們臺鐵的員工請命我們在這個今年一月元旦這個公司化之後公司內部的缺工還有低薪的問題還沒有解決尤其是我們的同仁針對夜點的夜班的津貼還有危險津貼跟其他的職業相比能有明顯低於行情的一個現象那我想包含本席跟很多委員在委員會也多次提出"},{"start":10026.304,"end":10038.317,"text":"臺鐵部分目前也還沒有一個具體的一個措施一個說明那我想臺鐵如果不針對這樣一個津貼過低的問題提出改善很難留住人才所以一樣提案凍結營業費用5000萬"},{"start":10041.841,"end":10067.803,"text":"46萬的部分針對今年一到八月這個臺鐵的準點率雖然有已經降到我們的93%雖然有因為受到地震颱風的影響但是我想我們設定的目標今年是97%明年97.5%仍有一定的落差那為了持續提升我們有效的一個準點率我們也要求臺鐵公司提出相關的對策"},{"start":10068.523,"end":10081.929,"text":"這個案子我一樣提案凍結營業費用5000萬47案的部分臺鐵的招募人力的部分還有一個實際上明顯的落差今年原本預計招募936人"},{"start":10083.81,"end":10109.557,"text":"實際上錄取756人但是報到只有672人人員缺額高達264人那這樣的一個缺額狀況我想對原有的一些我們的員工的這個勞力的這個勞役不均的問題甚至工時過長的問題都形成很大的負擔也造成一個行車安全的一個危險那我們要求臺鐵在公司化之後應該有效檢討這個人力資源的運用"},{"start":10110.257,"end":10137.068,"text":"那怎麼樣提升有效的一個薪資結構造成一個誘因讓更多的年輕人願意來加入我們臺鐵的行列那我這個案是一樣提案凍結營業費用5000萬那請臺鐵公司提出相關的書面報告使得動之以上說明好謝謝徐副委員那接下來的發言順序我先宣告一下那就是廖先祥委員黃建豪委員林國成委員好謝謝那接下來我們邀請廖先祥委員"},{"start":10137.779,"end":10142.122,"text":"第五十案專業服務費裡面有電腦軟體的一些費用是針對這個部分有比較多的意見其實整體預算在今年編的預算是9900多萬"},{"start":10155.611,"end":10180.911,"text":"在前年也就是112年的決算12年的決算是5300大概5300那今年截至目前為止到11月底比12年的決算數還低只有4300那結果明年卻要編超過我們的他們可能今年執行的費用的一倍超過一倍從目前"},{"start":10182.112,"end":10206.91,"text":"執行4300到明年9900的1億那這個落差有點太大了那因此我當然台鐵有來做說明那有請他們提供一些資料他們說明年有一個軟體服務費用好幾個軟體服務費用大概1800多萬就算這1800多萬加上今年已執行的4300大概也才6000多萬的一個規模而已但是卻變到9000多萬那因此我才會提出一個3500萬的一個刪除動議以上"},{"start":10211.8,"end":10212.68,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":10230.83,"end":10257.667,"text":"一兩個月前當然有宣布說這個基層員工也會加薪從大概最基本的11屆從3萬3左右加到3萬6那其實大家可以很清楚看到3萬3到3萬6基本上就調薪10%左右那這會有相對剝落感的問題啦就如果今天我這樣講了如果今天是董事長加薪10%基層員工加薪40%我想今天就沒什麼要討論的但是因為董事長你加薪就董事長管理層加薪的40%但基層員工的薪資"},{"start":10261.13,"end":10261.71,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":10290.469,"end":10291.87,"text":"事由：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":10306.301,"end":10307.422,"text":"公司營業預算有限公司營業預算有限公司營業預算"},{"start":10327.62,"end":10353.638,"text":"就是希望能夠第一個能夠節省政府的成本但同時提升營運績效那提升營運績效還沒有做出來之前就先幫管理層加薪那員工才加10%這件事情我覺得這個真的對立法院來講我覺得說不過去所以我才提這個凍結案我希望說你們能夠提出一些薪資結構的改善方案在預算沒有在重大變動情況下面你的薪資結構怎麼調整應該去做一個說明以上這是提出的凍結案以上說明謝謝"},{"start":10354.198,"end":10381.205,"text":"好謝謝黃建豪委員接下來要請林國成委員然後介旭財、邱若驊委員謝謝好謝謝因為本期提五十四案這個五十四案這個管理費用這個就當然跟車票漲價是有關係的所以我比較在乎的這我本來是主張三減一億但是我在想說改變就三減八百萬"},{"start":10382.125,"end":10391.946,"text":"然後另外一個我蠻堅持的因為票價如果要漲價的時候一定要提專案報告所以以上跟各位說明"},{"start":10393.083,"end":10394.004,"text":"臺北公司114年度預算編列營業收入351億7867萬,營業成本407億6893萬,營業費用21億5153萬。"},{"start":10413.982,"end":10420.904,"text":"一頁的損失是77億4179萬有提到本期淨損是86億8970萬較113年度的預算案淨損增加11億9743萬加薪本來就是為了要表現良好的員工臺鐵近年來營業狀況不佳虧損連連高階管理階層反而加薪40%這樣的做法"},{"start":10444.009,"end":10462.139,"text":"會增加財政支出也會打擊基層員工的士氣然後引發社會觀感不佳那臺鐵也在虧損流言的情況下董建士更因他們的報酬更應該是要來做專節那本期原本是提三檢那這邊先做56案動50%57案動20%然後臺鐵也要提供營運改善的專報以上謝謝"},{"start":10471.644,"end":10499.332,"text":"好,謝謝邱立法委員那針對以上幾位委員的提問請杜董事長這邊說明好,謝謝趙偉根各位委員先講就照順序來,照順序來那個許委員的許委員提到的這個我們有關於營業費用的這些用途以及他的這個對我們的期待其實這個我們公司都有在進行"},{"start":10500.572,"end":10518.025,"text":"那其中有關於這個準點率準點率其實我們如果扣除今年天災的因素來看的話其實我們是還算是有在標準之上那我們預期明年我們這個準點率要到97.5這個目標不變那我們會努力來進行"},{"start":10522.708,"end":10537.254,"text":"那相關的我們的這些做法我想如果有這個書面報告的話我們會列在報告裡面詳細來做說明另外就是有關於這個員工的這個夜點費還有這個危險津貼"},{"start":10540.555,"end":10541.015,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度"},{"start":10570.555,"end":10574.156,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":10595.583,"end":10610.713,"text":"實際入企756報到672這個部分其實我們改制公司以後我們是有比較彈性因為我們除了入企的人員以外我們另外還有就是我們的備取人員"},{"start":10611.593,"end":10636.371,"text":"那這個被取人員在入企人員沒有報到或者是他在試用期間不堪用或者有新的職訣跑出來的時候我們公司的章程是給予我們說被取人員可以通知他來遞補所以實務上結合先前我們在112年年尾我們就已經開始在努力來補充人力"},{"start":10637.131,"end":10656.989,"text":"那所以目前我們的人力大概缺走掉1500多人大概也補了近1600人那但是這個不夠這個我承認這個公司在人力的部分還要再強化所以我們現在已經公告我們另外在今年"},{"start":10657.929,"end":10681.029,"text":"公告還要再招募第二批的從業人員。這個招募的過程我們會特別注意就是前面第一次招募有一些限制或者是說招募的期間太短了不長這個我們都有改正回來我們希望在第二次招募能夠把先前的情況做一個更有效的改善"},{"start":10683.175,"end":10702.044,"text":"再過來就是廖宣祥委員提的第50案第50案主要是講說我們的這個調查研究調查費這個我要報告一下因為公司公司化以後公司進程裡面我們的規劃我們的智慧化是很重要的一塊"},{"start":10703.264,"end":10719.344,"text":"自衛化裏面包括有我們有很多系統要AI而且我們各個分散的子系統我們公司要趕快的建一個我們資訊平臺這個資訊平臺還要能夠跟我們交通部這個上面的那個資訊群來做連結"},{"start":10721.667,"end":10741.19,"text":"所以這一塊的確我們需要這個研究費以及這個相關的軟硬體的這個服務費這是比較多那另外還有就是其實剛剛有提到就是我們在一般設備包括我們月台還有評價到我們那個保錦保全"},{"start":10742.411,"end":10766.488,"text":"這個我們也檢討因為剛剛也有委員提及吧就是我們現場工作的這個我們場域的一個安全性對旅客對員工都很重要那這個部分我們整體改善計畫裡面的我們也有納進來那所以這個這個部分的真的要懇請各位委員那個不要給我們盡量盡量不要給我們檢列"},{"start":10768.79,"end":10780.362,"text":"再過來就是剛剛林國成委員講到的票價調整現在票價調整我們還在研議我們預期在"},{"start":10784.336,"end":10796.873,"text":"今年春節後我們馬上就會送董事會來做討論那董事會通過以後我們會提報給這個交通部好的預算這個委員會審查委員會來做一個審核"},{"start":10799.096,"end":10814.088,"text":"那這邊來講這個要請示那個各位就是說如果說因為我們這個票價合理化是這樣票價合理化主要的依循還是立法院"},{"start":10815.028,"end":10842.577,"text":"已經通過的計算公司而且我們在這個計算公司底下我們公司在現在擬定的過程中已經做了很多的調整比如說要顧及我們常客要顧及中長途旅客要顧及特殊性的旅客我們有非常多的調整那這個調整其實都是等於說帳幅沒有那麼高"},{"start":10843.657,"end":10859.745,"text":"政府沒有這麼高當然這個細節現在正在很積極的在籌劃所以在這邊還是懇請是不是我們這個我們的這個票價調整的這個還是照程序送到那個我們"},{"start":10860.485,"end":10876.175,"text":"交通部的審議委員會來處理就好至於這個裡面的內容我想我們一定會很妥善的很積極很公開的向外界就訂案以後向外界來做一個說明"},{"start":10877.336,"end":10898.271,"text":"那再過來就是包括邱若驊委員跟剛剛這個林佩祥委員他們的提案王俊豪委員抱歉王俊豪委員那個提案的就是有關那我在這邊我真的還是要再鄭重的我要說明一次"},{"start":10899.472,"end":10924.911,"text":"我領薪水是依據我們國營事業賦予主管的一個領薪的一個規定這個就跟我現在我們公司上上下下我們留任人員是依照條例的保障我們從業人員是依據要點的規定是一致的並不是說我有什麼加薪的企圖沒有這個我要澄清一下"},{"start":10926.273,"end":10953.755,"text":"當然因為公司在體制上面我們就的確是受到我們整個用人費率框架的約束也是一個管理所以說在這個部分我們要怎麼樣能夠來再增加我們的營業收入"},{"start":10955.796,"end":10983.955,"text":"讓我們整個的人事費用可以有所增加然後惠及我們全體員工這個是我們未來要非常努力的在這裡我還是懇請各位尤其是我們董監這個是不是凍結讓我們能提書面來說明這個是懇請各位委員是不是能考慮用這個方式以上"},{"start":10984.844,"end":11002.622,"text":"謝謝杜董事長的說明,那我再請教一下因為剛剛我們廖縣小委員他針對這個業務費用服務費用專業服務費他是指引說我們資金率低嘛,然後你的費用又增加,就是預算數增加,那你們是有新增的業務項目嗎?工作項目嗎?"},{"start":11005.704,"end":11033.734,"text":"說明一下因為我們臺鐵公司我們數位發展處是新成立的單位那我們現在也在推數位轉型所以我們現在很多建制的這個告檢系統啊自動偵測後續都要做一些專業的一個數位系統的維護所以經費會較以往年度會逐步增加就是有新增的工作項目所以也跟那個委員做一個報告懇請這一項能夠讓我們數位轉型可以推動的更順利一點謝謝"},{"start":11034.474,"end":11039.676,"text":"臺鐵公司之前也有提出給我說他們明年度要增加的哪一些採購案也都給我了那就是接近2000萬"},{"start":11053.86,"end":11076.153,"text":"但就是說從今年的差不多決算數再加上兩千萬那也就六千多萬而已你還是有三千多萬你講不出來你要做什麼事情啊你要做什麼事情我們當然數位化智慧化我們都支持嘛但是你講不出來你在執行率低的情況下然後又要增加這麼多然後你講不出來你要多做什麼那這就會讓人家有所質疑啊"},{"start":11078.327,"end":11090.924,"text":"這個部分我也同意廖千祥委員的看法啦。你要檢查三千幾萬是要檢查什麼?你自己都講不清楚人家要怎麼給你預算。到底是什麼項目要增加到3500萬?可以再補充說明嗎?"},{"start":11098.533,"end":11099.134,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":11120.667,"end":11128.455,"text":"報告委員我們這個增加的部分包括說我們整個臺鐵公司的治安驗證的這個場域跟系統的擴張那以及我們這些治安檢測會針對我們未來要這個因應臺鐵這個數位轉型的這個"},{"start":11142.509,"end":11157.179,"text":"系統推動會增加一些資訊系統需要去做治安的檢測作業因為這個要做的項目都有跟系統的數量都有增加所以才會有這個增加費用的情形"},{"start":11159.704,"end":11160.985,"text":"李崑澤委員有要再建議"},{"start":11188.093,"end":11216.53,"text":"這個廖委員的提案也應該給台鐵一個警惕當然我們在相關的預算的項目的說明欄沒有辦法讓你們說明的非常具體而清楚但是像相關的這種資安的擴充相關的設備軟體的提升等等也包含相關安全的訊號車輛的運轉安全的這樣的一個重要的數位的這些"},{"start":11217.61,"end":11245.218,"text":"處理當然都是很重要的費用但是你們必須要說明清楚必須要具體清楚的說明這是三千五不是三十五這個關係到臺鐵整體的這種車輛運行的安全而且現在都是數位化資訊化相關的安全訊號等等你們連這個都說明不清楚錢怎麼要怎麼給你們"},{"start":11248.066,"end":11251.249,"text":"臺鐵能夠在整個行車控制的安全系統裡面能夠智慧化、數位化這也是必須要做的必備的一個方向"},{"start":11266.886,"end":11285.638,"text":"那同時在做這件事的時候資安是非常重要的尤其呢這個資安的防護措施還有包括剛剛提到的驗證這個都是在我們現在所謂的這個資安就是國安的這個大方向上大家都會支持台鐵去做這樣子的一個"},{"start":11286.698,"end":11314.401,"text":"基金、數位化、科技化、智慧化但是呢就如同其他委員在說的我們剛剛聽到你們在說的針對你們要這個資安的檢測、資安的驗證還有這一筆新興的計畫裡面這個智慧行控中心或者是智慧行控系統包括整個邊坡安全跟等等大家要求的這個安全的一個檢測的一個智慧化系統的一個"},{"start":11315.262,"end":11329.514,"text":"整合跟建置這個我們現在還看不到臺鐵能夠做完整的說明就是說你們要怎麼建置說服委員們可以來支持這第一個因為這個我當然知道這很專業但是就算專業"},{"start":11330.755,"end":11332.376,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11348.988,"end":11376.268,"text":"董事長不知道還記不記得我們呢重視治安沒錯我們現在要推動各項的行車安全包括邊坡檢測甚至之前邊坡以上的道路東西掉下來影響了我們鐵路的行車安全上面那個區塊是並沒有建置一個監測系統後來我們承諾現在也要追加要監測系統要建置但是問題是"},{"start":11378.555,"end":11380.605,"text":"這幾個監測系統的建制到底有沒有整合?"},{"start":11383.21,"end":11407.492,"text":"有沒有整合如果你告訴我今天這筆錢就是要來整合你講的夠清楚我們全力支持但是問題是從提預算案到現在我們沒有看到臺鐵有詳細的說明所以才會有那麼多委員有意見我是願意再請臺鐵再講清楚一點如果是我們當然全力支持這個預算好不好"},{"start":11408.237,"end":11431.434,"text":"好那台鐵這邊可以再做一下說明嗎?跟委員們報告建議要報告就我們現在台鐵配合數位轉型正在做智慧鐵道雲平台叫台鐵雲平台那剛才委員有提到說我們的落實告警系統、平交道告警系統還有我們的漂汙系統我們底下現在有15個主要的子系統都會透過我們的智慧雲平台做連結"},{"start":11432.535,"end":11450.262,"text":"那所以為什麼數位資訊的這個資安的防護驗證還有這個服務費用會增加主要就是因為我們透過這個智慧化跟資訊化數位化的過程需要把這個系統跨系統的資訊整合我今天可能是細項沒有寫得很清楚啦"},{"start":11450.742,"end":11472.415,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":11472.835,"end":11496.952,"text":"對於雲平臺未來的輔助資訊也會在我們的行控中心裡面做呈現就在行車控制的過程中我們也可以看到各項資訊在這個平臺上做一個整合可以有效的提供提高我們的安全防護但是這個過程中要補充一點就是說資訊整合過程中也碰到治安的問題所以我們治安的驗證還有這些防護措施的相關的這個費用"},{"start":11498.273,"end":11515.049,"text":"設備也都會做一個增加。謝謝說明剛剛很多委員的意見都非常的寶貴目的也是希望就是督促我們臺鐵公司能夠做得更好提供更好的一個服務那我想經過這樣子的一個溝通我們就來做一個處理有關營業費用的部分因為有委員有主張刪減預算的提案那因為委員也有"},{"start":11525.678,"end":11528.54,"text":"政府總預算案附屬單位預算部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":11554.58,"end":11572.002,"text":"我們昨三一千萬啦,然後動反一致時好不好?我們昨三一千萬就依照召委的一個指示,就是提議啦。好不好,好啦。沒關係,召委講得我尊重,但是我希望就是你們之後提的結論報告"},{"start":11573.643,"end":11601.862,"text":"則針對我講的這三千五百萬這一項你們能夠很明確就是我們當然會有一些說明你說要做什麼其實你們這些說明對一億的預算可以這樣說明對十億的預算也可以這樣說明你對一百億的預算都是可以一樣這樣子說明那既然是在討論數字我希望你們能夠很明確的把你們要支出的項目跟預計支出的項目能夠明確的表列出來項目跟金額再來申請解凍而不是說你要做什麼那那那一點意義都沒有以上好謝謝那我們就來決議了"},{"start":11603.743,"end":11627.043,"text":"我跟你講現在三的金額我沒有意見但是我蠻堅持的你票價要漲價以後你一定要專案報告這個是對立法院一個負責你不要走你們的董事會完了交通部核准你們核完以後你們就去宣布這個一定要專案報告我蠻堅持這個部分要專案報告真的"},{"start":11627.643,"end":11645.236,"text":"你專案報告我們也知道我還是建議你們啊在董事會通過以後就來報告報告以後啊反而是對這件事情是有幫助這個票價調整那如果你們走你們的程序根本你們都已經決定要漲了你來專案報告也沒有意義啊"},{"start":11646.016,"end":11661.316,"text":"所以我還是覺得你們董事會做的決定就先來做專案報告那至於三減多少我沒有意見但是這個部分我還是建議董事長一定要來做一個報告來做決定因為專案報告是朝委在排的啦"},{"start":11662.256,"end":11679.347,"text":"李坤城委員這個有關臺鐵的票價調漲與否當然社會有一定的討論當然他也有一定的行政的程序就是由臺鐵公司的董監事提出相關的討論及結論然後再送交通部"},{"start":11679.927,"end":11696.298,"text":"交通部再送行政院來做何可與否的相關的討論當然身為立委在交通委員會我們不管是相關的這些議程委員都可以隨時的針對部長以及相關的官員"},{"start":11697.259,"end":11715.517,"text":"提出相關的要求及說明這個部分倒不一定是要做明確的專案報告因為每個召委都有他關心的議題或是時事的相關的議題都會影響到召委排案以及相關法案的審理等等"},{"start":11717.459,"end":11736.032,"text":"這個票價議題不只是向立委要來做說明是要向社會大眾來說明所以不管是交通部或者是行政院臺北公司一定會尊重交通部及行政院的具體的看法行政院跟交通部也一定是參考"},{"start":11737.233,"end":11760.263,"text":"交通委員會委員以及社會大眾大家共同的想法社會大眾是認為說票這樣的調整與否是可以討論以前是連討論都不用討論因為我們有很多事情處理得不好但社會大眾現在認為說是有討論的空間的但是討論的結果當然是要向社會大眾來做具體的一個說明以上"},{"start":11760.885,"end":11783.991,"text":"好謝謝那我們這邊就做一個處理跟決議那針對第46到69案營業費42到69的營業費用的部分我們就是決議灼山一千萬元然後凍結百分之十凍結五千萬不好意思更正凍結五千萬元然後提書面報告後使得凍資"},{"start":11785.785,"end":11788.007,"text":"第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會第11屆第2會期交通委員會"},{"start":11808.679,"end":11835.681,"text":"報告林委員因為我們就已經刪一千萬了一千萬是很大條的如果說只有凍結凍結來我們來提專案報告這也是可以討論的方向啦這也要看召委各個召委安排這邊跟林委員說明啦其實專案報告就是召委的排案啦你要看下個會期他們不會"},{"start":11836.667,"end":11861.064,"text":"不是,因為你要專案報告他才能解凍的話齁我都同意不刪的阿這個專案報告就是跟老百姓不要這樣如果你要求專案報告他們可以,你要求他們馬上去跟你做專案報告就是你去你的辦公室專案報告一定可以包圍我們是不是可以專程去跟委員報告一下啦"},{"start":11862.168,"end":11863.73,"text":"第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11878.645,"end":11896.357,"text":"五、三次我說明一下我補充跟林委員補充因為以我們的經驗就是票價要調整的話不管有沒有凍結預算事實上召委通常都會排專案報告那我希望就是說這專案報告也不要跟預算綁在一起不要綁在一起啦"},{"start":11898.217,"end":11899.438,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11929.718,"end":11943.843,"text":"我們做一個折衷啦好不好就是我們有三的一千萬我們就是凍結五千萬然後提書面報告那事實上跳價的調整只要他們送董事會我相信一定會有召委排專案啦不是你送政黨協商我覺得案子太多了你到時候真的是會也是會延誤到他們的一個運作"},{"start":11958.817,"end":11959.417,"text":"三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":11989.922,"end":11990.963,"text":"公司營業預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12001.155,"end":12025.333,"text":"我們董事會如果合理通過我們就跟委員報告了交委會各位這個合理啦就是臺鐵的董事會有討論出一個結論的時候除了向交通部報告也要跟交通委員會來做說明以上好那這個部分你們務必要記得喔不要事後又疏忽了那你們在之後你們可能就會"},{"start":12027.748,"end":12040.936,"text":"好,那個杜董事長這個部分的要求就是你們只要送來董事會之後有什麼第一時間有一個結果第一時間就要告知我們委員會的委員是"},{"start":12043.217,"end":12043.657,"text":"第7、繼續審查第8、繼續審查第9、繼續審查第10、繼續審查第11、繼續審查第12、繼續審查"},{"start":12063.77,"end":12069.633,"text":"舉手再來就是要先想委員謝謝好好好謝謝謝謝趙偉本席提的是氣死案那這個預算數十億元我是提凍結十分之一就是凍結一億元那其實有兩件事第一件事情還是這個安全的問題"},{"start":12080.259,"end":12102.844,"text":"就是說我們在這個今年應該是這樣講我們今年那個月台跌落的事故的部分還有意外落軌38件那還有蓄意跳下月台釀成的72傷這個是一個數字那其實這個數字就是在告訴我們說那台鐵對於這個月台上的一個安全"},{"start":12103.404,"end":12103.744,"text":"計劃的進度在第一個。"},{"start":12126.715,"end":12128.376,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12148.865,"end":12178.387,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12178.663,"end":12207.596,"text":"好,謝謝何欣淳委員接下來邀請廖先祥委員好,謝謝主席那我提的是81及8383我先講83就是這個顯示系統的東西啦我沒有要刪啦但是因為來說明之後有一個覺得奇怪的地方就是我們目前有好像有兩個車站已經做好了那現在要做的是剩下的然後我們的同仁跟我講的時候說現在要做的這一些比"},{"start":12208.516,"end":12208.836,"text":"臺灣港務股份有限公司營業預算"},{"start":12225.856,"end":12254.428,"text":"的規格反而是最差的我覺得有點有點奇怪啦吼這個我希望臺鐵自己能夠去檢討一下為什麼會在當初在做全車怎麼會有這樣子的一個情形那另外一個這個自動驗票砸門的東西總預算因為分年度嘛總共大概9億多啦那因為當然就是在TPAS跟可能敬老卡能夠使用之後有做了一個裝備的設備的調整但是實際上現在的民眾在使用上面並沒有"},{"start":12255.811,"end":12276.8,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12276.86,"end":12277.641,"text":"臺灣政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12294.838,"end":12296.459,"text":"第三、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12316.491,"end":12316.831,"text":"邱若驊委員,謝謝。"},{"start":12336.662,"end":12353.015,"text":"發生土石淹沒軌道還有巨石掉落影響列車雙向通行的事件所以委員這邊有特別提到希望這個防護還有預警功能能夠再更精進然後他原本原先是林佩祥委員原本提是要凍結40%那這邊改動10%再提相關書面的說明以上謝謝"},{"start":12358.76,"end":12372.18,"text":"好,謝謝邱若驊委員那本席有提第85案也是針對那個車站資訊的那個顯示系統的部分那我們現在有要逐年貸換貸去換新建制列車暨站務資訊顯示系統"},{"start":12374.343,"end":12374.803,"text":"第11屆第12會議中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12395.555,"end":12396.215,"text":"：一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算"},{"start":12413.166,"end":12429.599,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":12429.699,"end":12456.17,"text":"李委員的部分李崑澤也不堅持刪減案那這部分我們就來做一個處理是不是我們就用凍結十分之一可以好那我們針對第70到85案固定資產建設改良擴充我們凍結十分之一然後提書面報告後使得動之然後科目自行調整好謝謝接下來就是處理決議案"},{"start":12463.789,"end":12465.01,"text":"那第86案那個決議案遵照辦理好照案通過87案87案遵照辦理好照案通過88案"},{"start":12483.165,"end":12511.741,"text":"88案請修正為提出書面報告。好,那我們就照文字修正後通過。好,第89案。區委員,謝謝區委員也有同意就是修正文字為提出書面報告。好,我們照文字修正後通過。第90案。90案提出書面報告。這個委員也有跟委員報告溝通過。"},{"start":12512.432,"end":12537.561,"text":"好。那我們就照文字修正後通過。第91案。文字有修正嗎?那OK。好。就是專案改書面。抱歉了。抱歉。好。那第91案。遵照辦理。好。照案通過。第92案。92案遵照辦理。好。照案通過。第93案。93案有經委員同意那個修正文字為提出書面報告。"},{"start":12538.22,"end":12567.334,"text":"好,就是第2委員我同意了,那我們照文字修正後通過,第94案?94案一樣,就是修正文字為提書面報告好,那我們照文字修正後通過,第95案?95案同樣是提文字修正為提出書面報告好,那我們照文字修正後通過,第96案?96案一樣,就是提文字修正為提出書面報告"},{"start":12567.765,"end":12595.381,"text":"好,我們在文字修正後通過第97案97案遵照辦理好,照案通過第98案98案遵照辦理好,照案通過第99案99案遵照辦理好,照案通過第100案100案建起修正就是最後一行就是於這個經營管理服務品質安全性準點率加強改善合理票價應這個妥善研議"},{"start":12597.141,"end":12618.408,"text":"剛剛有說那個董事會通過以後就跟這個交通交委會的委員來報告好那這個修正文字要送來主席臺那有經過提案委員同意了齁對林國成委員同意有同意好謝謝那我們照文字修正後通過第101案101案遵照辦理"},{"start":12619.468,"end":12635.237,"text":"好,照案通過第102案。呃,遵照辦理。照案通過第103案。呃,遵照辦理。好,照案通過第104案。104案建議最後那個報告前面加書面兩個字。好。改成,呃,就是變成書面報告。"},{"start":12636.704,"end":12664.705,"text":"OK好同意那照文字修正後通過第105案一樣就是改為書面報告好同意那照文字修正後通過第106案遵照辦理好照案通過第107案遵照辦理好照案通過第108案遵照辦理好照案通過好那114年度就是國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司營業預算的部分預算提案處理完畢"},{"start":12667.722,"end":12687.551,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12708.677,"end":12737.108,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":12745.25,"end":12762.628,"text":"好,那我們就來處理交通部臺鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金114年度附屬單位預算那我們現在來處理一到三案就是業務費用的部分好,那第一案徐副委員同意改主決議"},{"start":12763.831,"end":12770.835,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算第二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12794.794,"end":12800.355,"text":"二、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案臺灣港務股份有限公司營業部分關於交通部主管臺灣港務股份有限公司"},{"start":12821.199,"end":12843.005,"text":"這樣子我們第一到第三案業務費用我們就處理照剛剛的一個宣告只有業務費用下面的專業服務費業務費用下面的專業服務費就是凍結10%提書面報告或使得凍支那我們現在第二案是服務費用也是凍結10%對都是專業服務費好謝謝剩下一個組決議"},{"start":12852.117,"end":12859.722,"text":"一、繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算"},{"start":12870.546,"end":12890.57,"text":"服務費用向下專業服務費我們凍結百分之十提書面報告後使得凍支但是第一案剛才已經改組決議對我知道第一案改組決議對對就是二三案好那我們接下來就處理第四案遵照辦理那我們就照案通過好"},{"start":12904.137,"end":12921.636,"text":"好,協商完成做以下宣告一、今日協商結論免予宣讀授權議事人員整理作為決議列入記錄二、委員要求提供之書面報告及相關資料請相關機關技術以書面答覆三、如有委員對於提案補簽列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":12924.559,"end":12950.469,"text":"在針對本日會議做如下決議一、本日預算審查結果照列暫照列或照協商結論通過二、本日通過之決議文字授權主席及議事人員調整三、114年度港港建設基金港務公司、台鐵公司、台鐵局撥入資產及債務管理基金預算案審查完畢請問各位委員對以上決議有無異議"},{"start":12952.19,"end":12956.606,"text":"好沒有通過本次會議到此結束現在散會謝謝"}]}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}