{"total":{"value":68,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2025-05-16"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"16682","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16682","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db1097a25523ba703a2eb28a9b25c087c452bdb8234cc31cac997c82404cdc0ca35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-05-16T13:30:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意第三核能發電廠經通過整體安全評估後，恢復繼續運轉？」請公決案。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-05-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-05-16T13:00:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:06:00+08:00","duration":3957,"影片長度":"01:05:57","委員發言時間":"13:00:03 - 14:06:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[19],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2025051339","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":405.57096875,"end":413.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":414.19409375000004,"end":424.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":425.48346875000004,"end":431.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":431.81159375000004,"end":441.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":441.48096875000005,"end":448.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":448.60221875,"end":462.82784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":463.19909375000003,"end":465.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":465.73034375000003,"end":470.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":471.16409375,"end":474.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":474.72471875,"end":485.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":485.91284375000004,"end":499.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":499.58159375,"end":501.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":501.91034375000004,"end":513.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0772187499999,"end":647.7778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.26721875,"end":674.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.16596875,"end":682.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.9115937500001,"end":693.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.54284375,"end":728.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.01409375,"end":736.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":737.6709687500002,"end":744.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":745.14659375,"end":747.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":749.1628437500001,"end":751.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":751.52534375,"end":756.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":756.7565937500001,"end":764.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":767.52284375,"end":769.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.2522187500001,"end":774.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":775.57221875,"end":777.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.4453437500001,"end":778.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":779.1328437500001,"end":857.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.78721875,"end":863.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":863.84534375,"end":933.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":934.16346875,"end":995.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":995.87534375,"end":1002.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1004.32971875,"end":1006.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1006.75971875,"end":1007.6540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1008.14346875,"end":1020.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1021.06971875,"end":1036.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1037.0672187500002,"end":1038.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1038.7378437500001,"end":1049.0484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1049.35221875,"end":1058.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1060.0172187500002,"end":1066.3284687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1066.7334687500002,"end":1079.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1079.59221875,"end":1082.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1082.7647187500002,"end":1091.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1092.0628437500002,"end":1112.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1112.39721875,"end":1115.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1115.75534375,"end":1124.1253437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1124.2940937500002,"end":1126.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1127.12909375,"end":1133.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1134.31784375,"end":1141.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1141.60784375,"end":1156.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1157.11596875,"end":1178.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1178.20971875,"end":1180.8084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1182.3778437500002,"end":1187.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1188.18284375,"end":1192.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1192.5703437500001,"end":1194.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1195.3040937500002,"end":1200.2147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1200.67034375,"end":1201.7503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1202.1890937500002,"end":1204.8215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1205.2940937500002,"end":1206.6947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1207.4878437500001,"end":1208.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1209.41159375,"end":1212.3140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1212.8709687500002,"end":1215.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1216.02659375,"end":1226.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1226.5397187500002,"end":1231.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1232.0240937500002,"end":1235.2134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1235.4834687500002,"end":1236.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1236.9178437500002,"end":1240.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1241.32221875,"end":1243.9715937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1244.42721875,"end":1253.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1254.2147187500002,"end":1255.1765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1255.7503437500002,"end":1258.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1258.3997187500001,"end":1262.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1263.1753437500001,"end":1267.1409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1267.74846875,"end":1270.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1270.46534375,"end":1272.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1272.7265937500001,"end":1280.0672187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1280.2022187500002,"end":1284.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1284.8259687500001,"end":1287.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1288.0997187500002,"end":1291.1540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1291.3228437500002,"end":1301.0597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1302.7134687500002,"end":1303.4222187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1305.32909375,"end":1311.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1311.5559687500001,"end":1313.1590937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1313.6990937500002,"end":1314.5597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1315.0828437500002,"end":1317.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1320.0609687500003,"end":1321.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1322.0859687500001,"end":1328.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1329.0047187500002,"end":1333.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1333.6622187500002,"end":1338.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1338.6234687500003,"end":1340.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1341.01971875,"end":1341.3909687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1342.0997187500002,"end":1343.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1352.5453437500003,"end":1361.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1365.9778437500001,"end":1371.7828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1369.7915937500002,"end":1370.0784687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1372.6434687500002,"end":1374.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1376.64284375,"end":1378.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1378.88721875,"end":1380.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1380.7772187500002,"end":1380.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1380.9459687500002,"end":1381.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1386.4134687500002,"end":1388.1178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1410.39284375,"end":1411.7428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1412.7890937500001,"end":1412.8397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1412.8397187500002,"end":1417.0753437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1471.5984687500002,"end":1472.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1472.81346875,"end":1475.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1489.9247187500002,"end":1490.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1499.4253437500001,"end":1499.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1502.6484687500001,"end":1503.4247187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1503.0028437500002,"end":1503.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1503.4247187500002,"end":1504.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1538.9634687500002,"end":1539.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1539.06471875,"end":1542.6422187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1571.7853437500003,"end":1572.0384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1572.5953437500002,"end":1574.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1573.0172187500002,"end":1573.1015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1614.9515937500003,"end":1616.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1616.9765937500001,"end":1618.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1621.71846875,"end":1622.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1622.2584687500002,"end":1623.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1624.6040937500002,"end":1627.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1626.39284375,"end":1626.7640937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1627.64159375,"end":1627.8778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1628.2659687500002,"end":1628.6878437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1806.6009687500002,"end":1807.5628437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1807.9509687500001,"end":1808.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1809.4190937500002,"end":1811.7984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1811.7984687500002,"end":1824.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1812.2203437500002,"end":1813.4690937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1814.8865937500002,"end":1815.2915937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1817.4684687500003,"end":1817.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":1817.48534375,"end":1817.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1817.5865937500002,"end":1817.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1820.9784687500003,"end":1821.1134687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1824.8934687500002,"end":1829.6859687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1827.7284687500003,"end":1827.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1827.74534375,"end":1827.9815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1827.9815937500002,"end":1828.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1830.41159375,"end":1832.8922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1833.2634687500001,"end":1837.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1834.2928437500002,"end":1834.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1839.6253437500002,"end":1842.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1842.64596875,"end":1846.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1847.2022187500002,"end":1852.7203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1853.3109687500003,"end":1854.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1855.4203437500003,"end":1860.4828437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1861.1747187500002,"end":1861.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1862.2547187500002,"end":1867.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1867.97534375,"end":1871.9409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1872.5822187500003,"end":1876.7503437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1877.2734687500001,"end":1883.4159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1884.27659375,"end":1887.3647187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1888.6809687500001,"end":1892.4103437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1893.5240937500002,"end":1894.4522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1895.4815937500002,"end":1900.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1901.1178437500002,"end":1906.0453437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1906.7709687500003,"end":1910.7872187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1911.3272187500002,"end":1913.3184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1913.7909687500003,"end":1918.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1918.9378437500002,"end":1920.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1921.2497187500003,"end":1925.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1926.0253437500003,"end":1928.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1929.4678437500002,"end":1933.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1933.8047187500001,"end":1939.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1940.1665937500002,"end":1946.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1946.6465937500002,"end":1951.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1952.7553437500003,"end":1954.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1954.8647187500003,"end":1957.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":1958.3409687500002,"end":1974.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1976.4984687500003,"end":1977.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1978.3378437500003,"end":1982.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1982.30346875,"end":1985.6278437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":1985.8809687500002,"end":2016.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2016.9478437500002,"end":2022.4322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2023.6640937500001,"end":2037.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2038.3284687500002,"end":2041.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2041.65284375,"end":2046.6478437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2047.0190937500001,"end":2047.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2047.7784687500002,"end":2049.1959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2049.60096875,"end":2081.5115937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2082.5240937500002,"end":2084.1103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2084.9372187500003,"end":2101.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2102.04846875,"end":2112.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2112.22409375,"end":2116.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2116.74659375,"end":2119.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2120.52659375,"end":2156.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2157.41534375,"end":2162.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2163.4059687500003,"end":2183.5378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2184.24659375,"end":2187.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2187.67221875,"end":2190.5409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2190.9122187500006,"end":2203.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2204.07471875,"end":2205.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":2206.2684687500005,"end":2219.1609687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2220.34221875,"end":2225.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2226.41721875,"end":2226.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2226.43409375,"end":2254.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2255.5603437500004,"end":2256.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2257.1803437500002,"end":2258.4628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2259.6103437500005,"end":2261.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2263.30596875,"end":2270.2247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2271.1022187500002,"end":2272.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2273.36346875,"end":2275.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2275.47284375,"end":2276.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2277.34596875,"end":2278.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2279.4890937500004,"end":2281.7165937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2282.18909375,"end":2284.9734687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2285.59784375,"end":2286.5428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2286.74534375,"end":2287.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2288.7028437500003,"end":2290.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2291.3015937500004,"end":2292.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2293.93409375,"end":2294.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2295.3347187500003,"end":2296.2965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2296.88721875,"end":2298.4903437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2298.87846875,"end":2301.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2302.60784375,"end":2304.4978437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2305.2740937500002,"end":2305.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2306.3709687500004,"end":2308.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2308.6659687500005,"end":2312.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2313.0028437500005,"end":2315.0447187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2315.61846875,"end":2321.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2322.36846875,"end":2327.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2328.9665937500004,"end":2329.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2330.5528437500006,"end":2333.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2333.65784375,"end":2336.4928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2337.37034375,"end":2340.7284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2342.1628437500003,"end":2348.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2349.4022187500004,"end":2362.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2363.3747187500003,"end":2388.4003437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2388.65346875,"end":2396.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2397.76596875,"end":2405.2584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2406.38909375,"end":2409.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2409.9159687500005,"end":2412.3797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2412.70034375,"end":2414.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2415.43409375,"end":2416.3622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2417.05409375,"end":2418.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2419.11284375,"end":2422.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2423.7872187500006,"end":2426.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2426.45346875,"end":2428.9509687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2429.76096875,"end":2433.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2433.5409687500005,"end":2436.4940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2437.06784375,"end":2438.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2438.6540937500004,"end":2440.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2441.5397187500002,"end":2447.4459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2447.56409375,"end":2448.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2449.0828437500004,"end":2451.3103437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2451.7322187500004,"end":2452.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2453.7234687500004,"end":2454.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2454.9890937500004,"end":2456.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2457.9928437500002,"end":2464.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2465.5865937500002,"end":2466.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2467.49346875,"end":2472.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2472.6572187500005,"end":2487.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2487.76034375,"end":2488.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2488.94159375,"end":2492.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2493.0084687500002,"end":2493.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2494.0547187500006,"end":2495.3709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2495.4384687500005,"end":2509.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2509.5965937500005,"end":2510.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2510.77784375,"end":2511.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2511.84096875,"end":2515.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2515.6884687500005,"end":2516.2284687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2517.17346875,"end":2535.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2535.88784375,"end":2539.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2539.26284375,"end":2544.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2545.2197187500005,"end":2546.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2547.04221875,"end":2559.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2560.06971875,"end":2564.0184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2564.6259687500005,"end":2565.5709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2566.2459687500004,"end":2571.8990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2572.2028437500003,"end":2600.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2600.6034687500005,"end":2601.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2601.9365937500006,"end":2619.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2619.5372187500006,"end":2623.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2624.24534375,"end":2625.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2627.19846875,"end":2628.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2630.3034687500003,"end":2632.0584687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2632.9190937500007,"end":2634.5222187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2634.91034375,"end":2636.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2637.39096875,"end":2639.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2639.8378437500005,"end":2640.4284687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2641.66034375,"end":2642.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2643.9215937500003,"end":2646.0478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2647.0097187500005,"end":2649.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2650.1484687500006,"end":2652.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2653.67534375,"end":2656.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2658.5184687500005,"end":2659.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2659.69971875,"end":2660.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2661.3534687500005,"end":2663.2940937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2664.74534375,"end":2666.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2667.0740937500004,"end":2669.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2669.57159375,"end":2671.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2673.08159375,"end":2674.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2675.5115937500004,"end":2680.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2680.9284687500003,"end":2683.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2684.47221875,"end":2686.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2687.3915937500005,"end":2691.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2692.6228437500004,"end":2696.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2697.65159375,"end":2698.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2700.9590937500006,"end":2702.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2703.22034375,"end":2704.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2705.44784375,"end":2706.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2706.6122187500005,"end":2707.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2708.08034375,"end":2709.2784687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2709.48096875,"end":2710.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2711.45534375,"end":2712.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2712.97409375,"end":2714.5772187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2715.79221875,"end":2718.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2720.01096875,"end":2723.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2724.0947187500005,"end":2725.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2726.45721875,"end":2728.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2729.5790937500005,"end":2731.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2732.1778437500006,"end":2734.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2736.41346875,"end":2740.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2740.75034375,"end":2747.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2747.97284375,"end":2750.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2751.22971875,"end":2751.8203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2753.7440937500005,"end":2757.7097187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2759.2790937500004,"end":2761.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2761.60784375,"end":2763.2615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2764.4765937500006,"end":2766.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2766.55221875,"end":2767.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2767.98659375,"end":2770.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2770.9734687500004,"end":2773.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2774.0615937500006,"end":2778.0440937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2778.4659687500007,"end":2782.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2782.9715937500005,"end":2783.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2784.20346875,"end":2787.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2787.8484687500004,"end":2789.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2789.50221875,"end":2790.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2790.3122187500003,"end":2791.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2792.4890937500004,"end":2794.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2795.3747187500003,"end":2796.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2796.5222187500003,"end":2797.8553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2798.7665937500005,"end":2801.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2803.1034687500005,"end":2804.5547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2805.0778437500003,"end":2806.7147187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2807.71034375,"end":2811.9628437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2813.14409375,"end":2814.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2816.0128437500007,"end":2816.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2817.1940937500003,"end":2818.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2819.3203437500006,"end":2820.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2822.05409375,"end":2827.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2827.79159375,"end":2829.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2832.6347187500005,"end":2834.0690937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2835.01409375,"end":2836.0603437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2836.65096875,"end":2837.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2837.84909375,"end":2837.8659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2837.89971875,"end":2839.8740937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2841.1397187500006,"end":2842.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2843.9072187500005,"end":2844.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2845.6453437500004,"end":2852.7159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2857.66034375,"end":2858.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2859.3984687500006,"end":2860.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2861.8115937500006,"end":2862.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2863.53284375,"end":2866.1484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2867.66721875,"end":2868.3759687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2868.9665937500004,"end":2871.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2872.79721875,"end":2873.9278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2874.73784375,"end":2876.54346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2877.0497187500005,"end":2877.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2877.99471875,"end":2879.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2881.70721875,"end":2882.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2883.22596875,"end":2886.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2886.2803437500006,"end":2888.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2889.26721875,"end":2890.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2890.93784375,"end":2892.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2893.16534375,"end":2894.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2896.6415937500005,"end":2901.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2901.41721875,"end":2902.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2902.6490937500002,"end":2920.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2920.8740937500006,"end":2922.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2922.6628437500003,"end":2923.6247187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2924.0634687500005,"end":2927.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2928.48471875,"end":2929.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2930.0372187500006,"end":2933.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2933.26034375,"end":2938.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":2940.12846875,"end":2943.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2945.89971875,"end":2955.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2956.58159375,"end":2963.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2964.0234687500006,"end":2989.7578437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2990.56784375,"end":3040.9059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3041.36159375,"end":3072.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3073.5084687500002,"end":3088.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3088.39221875,"end":3095.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3096.7790937500004,"end":3107.5622187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3107.7647187500006,"end":3121.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3122.42909375,"end":3123.1884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3123.76221875,"end":3124.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3124.6228437500004,"end":3127.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3127.62659375,"end":3131.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3132.3347187500003,"end":3151.8590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3152.1122187500005,"end":3154.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3154.42409375,"end":3163.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3163.94159375,"end":3166.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3167.3503437500003,"end":3169.2403437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3169.86471875,"end":3174.1678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3174.4715937500005,"end":3174.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3175.2647187500006,"end":3192.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3192.4772187500002,"end":3194.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3194.7722187500003,"end":3195.4303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3195.71721875,"end":3197.7422187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3198.29909375,"end":3200.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3201.0665937500007,"end":3202.5515937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3202.7878437500003,"end":3203.8678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3204.69471875,"end":3205.6397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3206.3484687500004,"end":3207.2428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3207.6309687500006,"end":3210.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3210.5672187500004,"end":3211.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3212.42346875,"end":3213.1490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3213.50346875,"end":3214.1784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3214.4147187500002,"end":3215.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3215.89971875,"end":3216.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3217.40159375,"end":3219.3590937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3220.4053437500006,"end":3224.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3224.7422187500006,"end":3229.1803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3229.7372187500005,"end":3231.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3232.04909375,"end":3235.1709687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3235.6940937500003,"end":3250.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3251.2697187500007,"end":3258.0534687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3258.39096875,"end":3260.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3261.2428437500002,"end":3263.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3264.36471875,"end":3264.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3265.39409375,"end":3268.1447187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3268.4147187500002,"end":3270.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3270.2878437500003,"end":3273.1397187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3273.6628437500003,"end":3275.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3276.3290937500005,"end":3277.2909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3277.9490937500004,"end":3279.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3280.1090937500003,"end":3281.2228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3281.40846875,"end":3283.2478437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3283.58534375,"end":3284.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3285.39096875,"end":3286.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3287.1797187500006,"end":3288.2090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3288.69846875,"end":3301.4053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3301.9453437500006,"end":3303.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3304.02096875,"end":3319.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3319.7147187500004,"end":3322.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3323.37659375,"end":3324.3722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3324.4734687500004,"end":3326.4647187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3327.03846875,"end":3329.4684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3329.7384687500007,"end":3331.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3332.0165937500005,"end":3334.0753437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3334.39596875,"end":3340.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3340.96034375,"end":3344.2509687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3344.7403437500006,"end":3347.0859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3347.2547187500004,"end":3348.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3349.11096875,"end":3350.4609687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3350.5115937500004,"end":3357.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3358.13909375,"end":3360.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3360.85596875,"end":3369.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3369.8672187500006,"end":3374.9128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3375.4697187500005,"end":3378.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3378.7265937500006,"end":3382.2197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3382.6922187500004,"end":3386.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3386.9615937500002,"end":3388.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3388.56471875,"end":3390.8934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3391.39971875,"end":3392.5134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3392.91846875,"end":3395.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3395.9728437500007,"end":3398.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3399.3478437500007,"end":3399.9384687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3400.32659375,"end":3403.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3403.81971875,"end":3406.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3406.89096875,"end":3426.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3427.25909375,"end":3429.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3430.81971875,"end":3452.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3453.36471875,"end":3453.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3454.20846875,"end":3455.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3456.4697187500005,"end":3460.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3460.65471875,"end":3462.1228437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3462.39284375,"end":3465.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3466.1222187500007,"end":3474.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3475.2853437500007,"end":3476.1122187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3476.3653437500006,"end":3477.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3477.7997187500005,"end":3481.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3481.8497187500006,"end":3485.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3486.0684687500006,"end":3490.3884687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3490.8272187500006,"end":3503.9728437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3504.41159375,"end":3511.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3512.0390937500006,"end":3512.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3513.9628437500005,"end":3516.0722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3516.4434687500006,"end":3526.8722187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3527.14221875,"end":3536.9803437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3537.2334687500006,"end":3539.6803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3539.78159375,"end":3541.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3543.4940937500005,"end":3544.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3545.9747187500006,"end":3549.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":3549.90659375,"end":3553.5684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3556.53846875,"end":3564.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3565.04346875,"end":3573.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3573.8522187500002,"end":3573.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3573.97034375,"end":3579.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3580.23096875,"end":3584.2472187500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3584.7197187500005,"end":3587.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3587.70659375,"end":3592.6678437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3592.9715937500005,"end":3598.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3598.72596875,"end":3604.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3604.6153437500006,"end":3605.2228437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3605.61096875,"end":3615.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3615.24659375,"end":3620.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3620.9503437500007,"end":3631.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3632.0203437500004,"end":3636.8634687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3637.3190937500003,"end":3642.0272187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3642.0272187500004,"end":3679.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3679.5065937500003,"end":3692.2303437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3692.92221875,"end":3693.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3694.6940937500003,"end":3703.9415937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3704.85284375,"end":3709.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3709.4090937500005,"end":3724.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3724.37721875,"end":3725.9297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3727.0772187500006,"end":3730.0134687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3730.0134687500004,"end":3742.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3742.5009687500005,"end":3748.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3748.7784687500007,"end":3755.3428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3756.5240937500002,"end":3759.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3759.4434687500006,"end":3765.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3765.06284375,"end":3765.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3765.3834687500002,"end":3765.8390937500008},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3765.8390937500008,"end":3766.1765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3766.1765937500004,"end":3766.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3766.76721875,"end":3770.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3767.17221875,"end":3767.7628437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3769.9228437500005,"end":3774.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3771.62721875,"end":3778.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3779.0690937500003,"end":3780.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3781.1953437500006,"end":3786.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3787.25346875,"end":3789.1603437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3789.6159687500003,"end":3796.6697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3796.9228437500005,"end":3804.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3805.02284375,"end":3812.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3812.02596875,"end":3813.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3813.40971875,"end":3816.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3817.56096875,"end":3834.1659687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3834.8409687500007,"end":3847.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3848.00346875,"end":3850.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3850.29846875,"end":3857.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3857.47034375,"end":3872.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3872.23596875,"end":3873.0290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3873.7547187500004,"end":3874.1934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3874.86846875,"end":3885.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3885.78659375,"end":3888.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3889.1953437500006,"end":3890.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3891.0009687500005,"end":3899.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3899.7928437500004,"end":3926.3878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":3927.5353437500007,"end":3928.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3928.9697187500005,"end":3936.7997187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3938.3015937500004,"end":3948.1903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3948.39284375,"end":3957.2184687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3958.5009687500005,"end":3959.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3967.81596875,"end":3968.6259687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":3968.8790937500007,"end":3969.5709687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":405.892,"end":424.466,"text":"好 謝謝大家那個本次黨團協商會議的主題是本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒公投提案為保障人民參政權您是否同意政府應於二年內於中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實以轉投票制度法制化請公決案"},{"start":425.527,"end":440.484,"text":"本院於114年4月18日本院第11屆第三會議及第8次會議決議本案盡負二讀交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商那現在介紹在場的委員及行政"},{"start":442.065,"end":469.783,"text":"機關列席的代表首先介紹民主進步黨的張宏祿委員中國國民黨的王宏威委員以及我們台灣民眾黨的劉書斌委員今天也感謝我們的行政機關有派代表來包括中央選舉委員會選務處王小林處長法政處蔡清告處長不好意思希望蔡處長不要介意"},{"start":471.764,"end":496.938,"text":"內政部的吳安堂常務次長吳堂安常務次長民政司的鄭英宏司長司法院司法行政訴訟及懲戒廳何孝剛法官以及我們的法務部廖江縣參事好那謝謝各位行政機關來列席的代表我們現在是不是因為發言前所以你如下每個黨團都發言每次我有發言的時間"},{"start":499.799,"end":512.663,"text":"我們希望能夠就大家檢要三分鐘為限我們先請提案的台灣民眾黨黨團代表發言我們後續再請其他的兩位黨團發言我們先請劉慧媛好 謝謝主席還有在場的官員跟其他兩黨的委員大家好本黨提出來的公投案最主要是基於憲法17條賦予公民的這樣的一個選舉罷免創制覆決的四個權"},{"start":529.728,"end":540.414,"text":"那這個四個權之所以重要在於是最主要是民主的基礎那我們最重要的是在各國我們事實上每次投票的狀況都是大概有20幾%的選民是沒辦法因為他工作或者是求學甚至是因為治療因素他沒有辦法在當天到現場他的投票所他戶籍在地的投票所去做投票"},{"start":559.105,"end":583.308,"text":"那這個地方在全世界各國都已經有了這種針對要把這公民參政權能夠落實所以都已經有了包括了是各種的這種移轉投票那這種不在籍的投票更是一個我們也都是已經在各國都實施包括我們現在看到的是在國外他們我們常熟悉像印尼菲律賓都可以移工到我們這邊來去做這個公民投票"},{"start":583.948,"end":590.634,"text":"好那這個部分呢更重要的是在我們本國之內呢在85年的時候中選會呢也有針對選罷法這邊在研修這個專案小組的採取所謂不在籍投票這部分已經到現在85年到現在多久了"},{"start":601.903,"end":603.305,"text":"已經114年了等於說是有30年的時間都沒有在進展那聯安政部也有在講所以他們最重要的理由是說要兼顧秘密投票跟社會責任的社會的信任度"},{"start":617.322,"end":633.406,"text":"但是這個部分我們這個信任度秘密投票這部分如果是在國內的本當日還有親自去投票的話這個部分應該不是問題信任度的部分的話就是在於說有人是當初這樣討論到是國外的尤其像台商他如果在各地特別是如果在中國的部分"},{"start":639.028,"end":643.956,"text":"他到時候去做這樣的投票是有疑慮的所以本黨最重要的是在討論說是要針對的是在國內的"},{"start":648.991,"end":668.69,"text":"國內的轉移轉投票在他登記的如果做事前他去做一個登記的話他在他的工作實際上他住的這個地方去做這樣的一個登記之後他可以去做現場的投票這個部分在很多的做投開票所的工作人員事實上都已經做這個事情了這絕對不會是大問題"},{"start":670.552,"end":687.046,"text":"更重要的是應該要去注意到的這樣的問題就已經不會是大問題的時候不要再去找其他的理由而且這個地方當然有至少之前我們在做這個案的時候有執政黨的委員有提到說是不是應該要有其他的一個就是說"},{"start":693.692,"end":698.815,"text":"是不是你們這個是可以修法可是問題是大眾重要的是大民主已經30年你過去在民進黨在執政的時候2016年到2024年的這個情況之下8年期間你們執政了你們都沒有去做那就是你們當初在在野黨成為是在野黨的時候做這樣的事情你們都不做那現在就變得說我們就而且真的要開始要做的時候你們可能會一直在杯葛因此用最符合到民主進步黨所說的大民主"},{"start":724.212,"end":747.346,"text":"這樣的情況下我們用直接民主的這種方式讓公民有這樣的機會來進行透過來約束到立法院必須要去尊重到直接民意的最高的這樣的一個意義存在著好 謝謝好 謝謝劉書斌委員我們補充介紹那到場的委員還有中國國民黨的羅志強委員那民主進步黨的王惠美委員"},{"start":749.532,"end":768.997,"text":"王美惠委員,不好意思,特辭跟王委員致歉,王美惠委員,我回家會複習十次好,那現在不曉得中國國民黨跟民主進步黨黨團哪一位委員要先代表發言好,那就請王洪威委員,謝謝"},{"start":771.752,"end":785.486,"text":"那先請教主席,我們是不是有三分鐘?是,有三分鐘的限制,是好,謝謝主席喔好,那我想就說最近大家也都知道那菲律賓呢,做他們的大選"},{"start":786.647,"end":814.206,"text":"那在台灣菲律賓的移工也蠻多的所以呢過去其實有很多次大家都特別討論在台灣的東南亞的移工不管是菲律賓或者是印尼在他們國內有重大選舉的時候即便他們人不在國內也是一樣是可以投票的那也就是說他仍然可以去實行他的一個公民的權利"},{"start":815.447,"end":819.272,"text":"但是在台灣事實上我們在這個不管選舉或公投投票事實上我們被限縮的不要說在海外的投票權我們事實上連在國內本身尤其每次到了選舉我們有一些的族群"},{"start":832.609,"end":855.729,"text":"事實上因為他們工作 特殊工作的性質沒有辦法進行投票這裡面譬如說過去我們常講的軍警還有像護理人員因為大家知道台灣的護理人員很忙他們根本有時候都在工作崗位上走不開所以其實長期以來就是應該"},{"start":857.833,"end":873.907,"text":"推行不再急投票那事實上是一直大家討論的議題那可能我想可能對民進黨團來說因為在上一次我看到也有很多民進黨團的立委也都有發表言論"},{"start":875.548,"end":889.534,"text":"說這個修法就好了不需要來做公投但是事實上我們現在立法院裡面有關於不在籍投票有沒有這個版本有的包含我個人都有提出版本"},{"start":890.214,"end":912.03,"text":"那我们提出版本之后呢 其实尤其在海外投票的部分那很多就会给他赋予说 这个会使得中共可以来影响我们的投票那这当然就是针对广大的台商或者是在大陆工作 或者投资 或者就学的台胞"},{"start":914.391,"end":928.644,"text":"所以所謂的海外的投票權就會容易又染上政治甚至直接給你丟上猴帽子所以我覺得在這一次的我們的公投案裡面因為我們的修法事實上我要講的從"},{"start":935.03,"end":953.61,"text":"這個會期應該是這個屆一開始其實在立法院就有版本那與其這樣子推行其實非常非常的緩慢那我們也知道嘛其實民主我們在國會裡面我們是代議士那同樣的公投就是最直接的民主那我套一句賴總統所說的話"},{"start":955.532,"end":962.018,"text":"用更大的民主來決定我們公民投票的權利所以我想這也符合包含賴總統跟民進黨的同朋友們一個所謂的更大的民主的一個合法合理的一個程序所以對國民黨團來講我們支持這個公投案那也希望在國會裡面我們"},{"start":984.016,"end":1001.833,"text":"跨黨派都能夠去支持用更大的民主來決定讓我們的公民來決定他們可以行使他們應有的權利 以上 謝謝好 非常感謝王洪維委員那請問民主進步黨黨團是不是請張宏祿委員代表發言來 請張委員好 謝謝"},{"start":1006.809,"end":1036.056,"text":"其實這個要移轉投票或不再集投票不再集投票裡面的裡面有包括移轉投票裡面是一種要修法也可以其實公投也是權利我們也不能說不行不過如果說就我們現在所說的這個公投的題目這樣子我覺得會有一點點問題為什麼第一個移轉投票台灣現在已經有實施了"},{"start":1037.697,"end":1058.511,"text":"14個對象是什麼所有的在投開票所工作的工作人員他們每一次投開票所他們都已經有移轉投票了這是事實那再來如果說中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實移轉投票法制化"},{"start":1060.063,"end":1082.024,"text":"以我辦過多次選舉的經驗,只要是縣市長、縣市議員那次的選舉因為選到代表村里長,你光印製選票,全台灣會有八千多張的選票為什麼?光村里長就七八千人了"},{"start":1083.207,"end":1111.432,"text":"這樣子的話我們能不能夠有這個能量去印製這麼多的選票因為如果是照這個主文的話所有的選務工作必須要做到這些八千多張的選票我相信在台灣應該沒有辦法有這個能力去負擔啦所以我個人我是覺得說啦在現在的情況之下台灣如果真的要實施"},{"start":1112.732,"end":1140.657,"text":"這個移轉投票其實公投跟總統我認為是比較合適的你把所有的選舉都放進去我真的覺得村里長就沒有辦法而且以選務的經驗來講如果你把村里長放下去甚至代表議員就好了你在你移轉投票的地方那一張票了不起一張兩張不會超過很多張票"},{"start":1141.707,"end":1155.955,"text":"那你有沒有投這一張票我跟你講馬上就可以看得出來了那你會造成很多選舉實務上的困擾這點我就不多說了困擾是什麼所以我覺得"},{"start":1158.017,"end":1179.472,"text":"你要把所有的這些我認為是不可行那如果你不把村里長代表甚至縣市議員有的地區大概幾百票就選上了這些你不排除掉你就算這個公投過了我覺得好像執行非常困難以上"},{"start":1182.623,"end":1206.397,"text":"好 謝謝張宏祿委員我先跟各位黨團的代表做一下報告我們目前協商的主題是針對這個公投提案我只針對這個公投提案至於說公投內容你要贊成還是反對這個是下一個階段的事情也就是說如果假設真的成案了以後交付公民投票"},{"start":1207.506,"end":1224.838,"text":"台灣的每一個公民每一個政黨都可以有自己他的看法譬如說我就反對移轉投票那你就大聲說我反對移轉投票這樣會造成選務困難投票秘密諸如此類的操作不下去整個會議癱瘓掉"},{"start":1226.619,"end":1254.928,"text":"反正台灣是一個民主多元的社會公共政策都可以拿出來辯論所以大家也夠可以說那我就是反對移轉投票在這個公投案我行使作為國家主任的權利我就是要投反對票那如果出來的結果是反對多於贊成那我們也必須要尊重這樣子的結果嘛所以我只是先跟各位黨團報告就是說今天協商的主題是說這件事情交付"},{"start":1256.048,"end":1271.707,"text":"讓全台灣的公民來做決定這一件事情大家贊成或不贊成那至於說你再不贊成移轉投票這件事情那個是第二個層次的問題等到真的成案的時候每一個公民每一個政黨"},{"start":1273.308,"end":1300.866,"text":"大家都可以有不同的看法立場跟意義一切甚至覺得這個公投的主文寫得不好其他的各個黨團要針對這個公投主文提出修正動議或再修正動議在我們最後表決之前大家通通都有這個機會我先跟大家做這樣的說明跟報告我有先徵詢一下就是到場的羅委員是不是要發言不用"},{"start":1302.708,"end":1317.438,"text":"好 是 請既然看起來就沒有共識嘛那就叫院長協商或是進行下一個流程就好了那請問王委員有沒有意見沒有沒有嗎行政機關的代表有要講話嗎你希望講話是不是不用嘛因為看起來是兩個黨團贊成一個黨團不贊成嘛"},{"start":1329.144,"end":1338.795,"text":"那所以我們今天這個第一個主題的協商就沒有共識那我們接下來就交由院長協商或者是依照議事規則來加以處理謝謝各位黨團的代表好謝謝"},{"start":1352.722,"end":1360.728,"text":"我們第二場協商是表定一點半是不是?不好意思我們先休息一下,下一場協商是一點半開始,謝謝大家"},{"start":1386.568,"end":1386.728,"text":"歡迎光臨"},{"start":1414.368,"end":1415.593,"text":"下面下面"},{"start":1461.428,"end":1463.248,"text":"好啊,沒問題你待會兒給你水好啊,謝謝"},{"start":1497.893,"end":1498.754,"text":"這個沒了還有這個沒了"},{"start":1534.514,"end":1549.855,"text":"對,對,對"},{"start":1571.901,"end":1572.121,"text":"嗨嗨"},{"start":1596.664,"end":1623.422,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1626.34,"end":1648.729,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":1806.63,"end":1816.134,"text":"我會到長篇,把我的立場再講一下三分鐘好不好?給一個人五分鐘,好不好?可以吧?我真的很快,我很快,我還沒交給人,沒關係好不好?你要通過人,你也可以有更多的意見"},{"start":1833.74,"end":1835.382,"text":"謝謝各位來參加這場協商會議的各黨團的代表"},{"start":1847.267,"end":1875.826,"text":"那本次協商的主題是本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據公投提案主文為您是否同意第三核能發電廠經過整體安全評估後恢復繼續應轉公決案本院經114年4月18日立法院第十一屆第三會議第八次院會決議交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商協商會議進行先介紹今天出席的委員級"},{"start":1877.987,"end":1902.442,"text":"機關代表首先介紹民主進步黨的莊瑞雄委員以及民主進步黨的許富軌委員還有中國國民黨的羅志強委員還有中國國民黨的鄭天才委員以及台灣民眾黨的張祺凱委員今天非常感謝經濟部何進昌政務次長"},{"start":1906.989,"end":1928.109,"text":"以及台灣電力股份有限公司王耀廷總經理徐永輝副總經理以及國家發展委員會產業發展處鄭永明前任基政劉穎潔專員核能安全委員會陳明珍主任委員張新富主任委員"},{"start":1929.942,"end":1951.427,"text":"還有核能管制處高斌組長、核物料管制組陳文謙組長、中央選舉委員會選務處王曉琳組長以及法政處蔡京告組長好 謝謝我們今天是不是首先請提案的黨團代表張祺凱、張維園我們那個因為這個是黨團協商這個不是"},{"start":1958.413,"end":1972.967,"text":"那個要來吵架的就各個黨團把立場說明清楚就好了當然希望有共識沒有共識我們也是尊重各黨團各自的立場表達那所以我們每位委員發言的時間限時五分鐘好那我們先請張淇凱委員好"},{"start":1977.216,"end":1991.104,"text":"謝謝主席今天這個研議核三的公投非常重要因為這個禮拜六我們台灣就進入聯合非核的這個時代了那這個禮拜二"},{"start":1991.704,"end":2007.817,"text":"台灣民眾黨有跟這個國民黨有特別提出了這個核管法的修正也三讀通過了大家有看到包括商總跟工總很多企業界人士都出來呼籲說應該盡快再重啟核電要趕快重啟核電那事實上"},{"start":2011.159,"end":2035.176,"text":"這是核管法的修正 修正完之後 只是把法律的障礙把它拿掉 就像孫悟空啊那個緊箍咒 先拿掉可是到底要不要重啟核電 或者研議核電啊主要鑰匙 這把鑰匙要不要開 還是在民進黨的手裡就是台電到底要不要申請 核安會到時候審查會不會過也就是說 賴清德總統到底要不要點頭這老講 以後的"},{"start":2038.633,"end":2053.375,"text":"責任跟權責就純乎賴清德總統一念之間我們就等著看台電到底會不會提出申請另外我們發現它的法律的強制性不過強我們研究之後發現"},{"start":2055.077,"end":2079.814,"text":"如果透過公投是一個更合適的一個方法所以雙管齊下台灣民眾黨提出了公投的這個公投由全民來做決定那公投法是有強制性的通過之後呢政府機關就有義務必須要遵守所以我們提出了這個核三的這個公投事實上大家這幾天可能都碰到很多國外的媒體來採訪也看到很多的這個報導發現說我們回到這個"},{"start":2084.978,"end":2089.381,"text":"核電完全沒有的狀況之下台灣的電就會發電成本會提高所以變貴了也變髒了因為它天然氣的發電跟煤炭這個發電加起來會高達高達所有我們發電的84%到85%"},{"start":2102.076,"end":2113.33,"text":"那事實上全世界的潮流都是慢慢在返回核能在用核能然後呢在這個天然氣燃氣跟這個燃煤它都是大幅在降低了包括我們最主要的競爭對手南韓南韓現在的用核電是30.3%"},{"start":2120.575,"end":2144.953,"text":"他的化石燃料就是用天然氣跟這個燃煤大概只有六成左右而且他們這個化石的燃料還慢慢在降低當中日本目前是8%的核電他們已經宣布了要快速的恢復到20%那目前他們這個化石這個天然氣跟燃煤大概也是六成左右他們也要適度的降低他們甚至提出來一個很重要的就是"},{"start":2145.914,"end":2162.269,"text":"會造成污染跟空污的天然氣跟燃煤他們要大幅降低到30到40%從60一下子大幅的這個降低那前幾天大家已經有看到了連川普都喊出來說他要讓美國的核能再度偉大所以他們的核電"},{"start":2163.49,"end":2179.815,"text":"要快速擴張要增加四倍所以我們在核電廠被關掉之後你發現跟世界這個潮流是對撞的而且台灣民眾黨是一個理性務實科學的政黨我們還特別做了這個民調很清楚的民調裡面發現從各個年齡層還有各個教育別"},{"start":2184.298,"end":2205.146,"text":"都是支持要重啟核電的所以我們提出了非常具體的提出來你是否同意第三核電廠經過整體安全評估之後繼續運轉我要特別強調在核工法通過之後只是拿掉法律的這個障礙要不要用核電"},{"start":2206.686,"end":2218.633,"text":"還是在民進黨執政黨的手上第二個 現在我們直接由民眾來做一個決定河山廠到底要不要繼續運作重啟運作交給全民來做一個公決 謝謝好 謝謝張祺凱委員我們現在接下來請莊瑞雄莊委員謝謝主席剛聆聽了張祺凱委員的一席話我還是覺得你要是要用搞不好"},{"start":2235.916,"end":2255.623,"text":"傲慢 而且非常粗暴法律通過了以後那當然後面怎麼做行政部門依法行政公投通過以後當然他必須要拘束力這個是非常清楚的可是重點就是說你剛那個講法就是叫別人的兒子死不了政客你能當立委當多久你憑什麼要把河山重啟"},{"start":2263.359,"end":2270.061,"text":"你如果說要仿效歐美國家川普說要讓核能再偉大要多偉大要四倍要幾倍啊跟我核三什麼關係跟核三要重啟什麼關係你那麼愛川普你叫美國多蓋一點啊跟核三重啟什麼關係呢核三貢獻台灣四十年喔四十年喔有九倍有九倍因為你沒住在這裡嘛你住在這裡你不會說這個屁話嘛"},{"start":2293.951,"end":2296.233,"text":"就這麼簡單嘛 你說如果安全 核廢料有辦法處理這個都是一個理性的議題 大家可以來討論啦那你要處 面臨的剩下幾天 要處理你不要說 我們來做一個公投 做個過後 核酸你就必須要繼續運轉下去"},{"start":2313.595,"end":2327.679,"text":"誰賦予你這麼大的權力啊你如果說今天公投的是說台灣要不要繼續使用核能要在哪裡可以討論喔要在哪裡可以討論喔你這個老人家死不了你以為你很大當了立委 屏東人就是次等國民照你的看法 照你的想法裡面我告訴你你跟當年的黃國昌委員講的就完全不一樣當年黃國昌委員講的是說藍與黑的人是違規的"},{"start":2342.196,"end":2345.599,"text":"蘭嶼已經放了43年了 照你張吉凱的想法 你要死好啊本地人應該放你那些阿當幫那些人河山本來就蓋在你屏東啦 屏東你死好啦繼續放在那個地方才不會有危險的 不要搬到別的地方 別的縣市來啊你們那個想法都是高人一等的想法 這個很糟糕啊我舉一個例子啊"},{"start":2363.904,"end":2370.869,"text":"2018年我們在反核實那個食安反核實的一個公投的時候那個時候連署人數49萬361人不合格多少你知道嗎是7萬8479人也包括死亡連署1萬1534人我現在不針對這一次的什麼罷免不是我說當年偽造就7萬2810人"},{"start":2388.78,"end":2394.604,"text":"大家為了一個食安 國民黨為了一個食安他就去偽造出這麼多的一個連署出來為了反核食喔 好啦為了一個食品的一個安全 反核食你就不惜去這樣子去偽造那麼多還為了一個大目標啊你這不是的 你今天這不是的你今天核安你這個整個都不顧了那核廢料你怎麼處理 你們也沒講啊你真的以為 核酸那麼安全嗎"},{"start":2419.161,"end":2422.684,"text":"你隨便去google一下你都知道河山廠就是在斷層帶啦剛好都沒有發生你們就認為很安全啦那對屏東人來講會覺得說 啊不好家宅好家宅沒發生啊你現在就認為說 嗯啊就沒發生就好啊萬一發生了 萬一你的事情繼續這樣這個不通啦那你在一個斷層帶裡面到底安不安全 要重新再去檢討啦核廢料到底有沒有辦法解決 也沒辦法你也沒辦法去解決"},{"start":2449.315,"end":2452.857,"text":"所以呢你這個到底學者專家提出來的怎麼都只有我看得見你們會看不見這個社會這樣已經吵過多少次河山再斷成帶了好不容易判來40年為國家貢獻了可以讓他出獄了吧"},{"start":2467.537,"end":2471.661,"text":"他在國家公園的旁邊 你有去過嗎 南湾去兩顆地那裡你也問一下良心的 這如果把你通過了 你長期來領先 我會說你一輩子有屏東人來陪我啦 我不跟你騙啦我講這個都很正常 沒有什麼情緒啦 只是說你不把屏東人當人啦你甚至沒有把那個蘭嶼的人當人啦 你都認為存在啦危險就是你們這些人繼續承擔 你們的想法就這麼簡單嘛"},{"start":2493.041,"end":2507.395,"text":"那你認為說這個核電會比較便宜一點再來把它重啟把它打開就好了讓它繼續把它延續我們公投過了以後政府就有這樣的一個責任你們看到的都是很多都是蓋新廠啦我來舉很多幾樣就好你說核電原液可以換來更便宜的電價"},{"start":2517.219,"end":2520.761,"text":"這都是政客在騙老百姓的話術啦你研議需要的安全強化的投資未來反應能除以拆遷的費用跟高低階核廢料最終處置都是轉嫁到全體納稅人的一個負擔主席都有在兩個把它講完"},{"start":2535.811,"end":2540.173,"text":"好 沒有問題 再給莊委員兩分鐘 請繼續你像譬如說我舉的一個例子啦就是美國佛羅里達州的水晶的一個核電廠1968年動工1977年併網本來運轉到2013年2008年的時候他那個電廠向核管會提出研議的申請 進行更新的程序工程中出現問題 預計恢復成本超過30億美金最終"},{"start":2564.753,"end":2571.612,"text":"放棄研議 提前停機2013年啟動為60年的除疫程序這是第一行"},{"start":2572.298,"end":2578.342,"text":"第二個還是你最喜歡的美國加州聖歐諾佛瑞核電廠分隊2013年的期間結果呢2001年你耗資6.7億美金差不多215億然後進行蒸汽機的一個更新在2011年完工本來預計延續20年結果呢更新過程裡面發生的冷水管線的洩漏的問題不得不在2012年停機2013年也是一樣有個廚藝"},{"start":2602.057,"end":2613.026,"text":"所以從簡單兩個例子 我不相信你沒看過這兩個例子也就是說 研議不是萬能啦不是說時間到了以後 檢查之後就要研議靠 這麼簡單還是要回復到 我必須要講的你核廢料怎麼處理你核一核二 你為什麼不敢把這個題目放是核一跟核二你為什麼專門挑核三你看我們平常都沒有嘛"},{"start":2630.339,"end":2636.444,"text":"你一剖新北市的人的臉頰嘛就這麼簡單嘛 人多嘛你不敢擔這個政治風險嘛我再次講你就是欺負我屏東嘛你憑什麼 你憑什麼你能當多久的立法委員 你憑什麼嘛敢提這個案子就不怕我質疑你嘛你愛怎麼講你等一下請環國常委員跟你講嘛你就告訴我啊 為什麼你不合一合二你要給我挑河山啊"},{"start":2658.544,"end":2662.786,"text":"就這麼簡單啊 你就看平常人弄嘛河山大家都很清楚是在斷層帶啊你難道不知道河山整個整個蓄水池裡面已經要裝滿了嗎河味料你放哪裡 你沒講啊你要河味料儲存在什麼地方嘛所以喔 你河山你再把它延育十年 二十年喔騙人的啦 你就沒地方人放啦我最後又要強調啦"},{"start":2687.455,"end":2690.996,"text":"我們1982年喔 開始把那個低階的核廢料那十萬桶 把人家放在蘭嶼 放了就43年放了43年每一個政府都想說想處理啊沒有能力處理啊海拋嗎 不敢啊運到別的國家去嗎 沒人買啊放到別的地方 因為 因為張興源你沒有根啊"},{"start":2715.851,"end":2718.153,"text":"沒有人知道你是屬於哪一縣市的人啊在台北你說你是台北人要選舉你說你是嘉義的人兩個地方你都不敢放啊你就把人家走西北都去北京這樣就好啊還是要負責任啊要有一點人道的靈敏啊"},{"start":2736.468,"end":2739.99,"text":"屏東河山場真的貢獻了40年你不要再告訴我什麼鄉鎮長什麼那個叫做老百姓的共識屏東人沒有人跟你有共識你去問到的是鎮長他們要的是補貼我告訴你你問到的那個鎮長如果敢再跳出來挺你我馬上罷免他什麼那叫做恆春人的共識那叫屏東人的共識"},{"start":2764.557,"end":2783.243,"text":"是你政客的話術說謊這個叫說謊我今天講的都沒有人身攻擊我今天講的是 宇眾心腸要跟你講所有的外地人我們不要認為說我們有共識所以要把這樣的一個不利益這樣的一個危險放在哪一個地方我們沒這麼大的權利我再舉一個無害的給你聽讓你好好的反省"},{"start":2792.54,"end":2801.346,"text":"北投 關渡公園我以前在那邊當台北市議員關渡平原要不要開發你如果問關渡平原那裡人家99%說要開發你如果問全北投才會剩下68%要開發如果問全台北市他告訴你不能開發那是台北市的費不到30%的人說要開發你知道嗎這個議題剛好相反你如果去問恆春"},{"start":2822.113,"end":2828.439,"text":"你真的以為我們屏東人都是白癡我們喜歡核電廠我們喜歡擁抱核廢料你是在說什麼瘋子你不敢挑戰別的縣市你不敢挑戰新北不敢挑戰河一河二你設定叫做河山公投我當然也跟你們台灣民眾黨拚命謝謝"},{"start":2846.2,"end":2865.589,"text":"好謝謝莊惠雄委員那個中國國民黨那個政委員天才要代表中國國民黨發言嗎這個河山場研議這個部分跟這個蘭嶼核廢料沒有關係這個"},{"start":2869.181,"end":2893.969,"text":"无论是核一核二核三甚至已经花了非常多的钱然后后来停摆的核四当时的规划都是要把核废料放在原地这第一个所以跟这个蓝银没有关系这第一个第二个就是说"},{"start":2896.97,"end":2899.331,"text":"這個不是只有鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村鴻村"},{"start":2916.658,"end":2942.705,"text":"所以我簡單講是說這個部分是這樣所以不是只有鎮長支持因為這個滿州鄉也是我的省區啦他們也是支持的所以這個部分所以這是我所聽到的這是我聽到的是這樣所以公投嘛所以就公投嘛以上謝謝好謝謝喔好那請徐委員覆軌"},{"start":2946.737,"end":2963.491,"text":"很遺憾剛剛聽到我們民眾黨的委員跟國民黨的委員講這個話實在是讓人家很痛徹心扉我想民國90年我就在恆春當任記者的工作那當時台灣史上最嚴重的核子事故"},{"start":2964.171,"end":2988.765,"text":"就發生在河山場當時不但電廠全黑反應爐的冷卻設施喪失動力差點造成大量的輻射外洩我想當時那時候真的是人心恐慌和恐懼那所以我想這個包含莊委員一號我們莊委員一號我們三個屏東的委員我們都很清楚知道過去為什麼河山場會被叫做恆春山會不是沒道理的我想"},{"start":2990.706,"end":3013.745,"text":"上個禮拜 前幾天 這個禮拜二我想這個藍白藉由強行暴力通過這樣的一個法令我想我們還是要強調這個在核安潛艇跟核廢料的處理上面跟社會共識三個潛艇沒有達成一個共識 我們是堅決反對到底那尤其這個核能運轉 這個核三長已經運轉了40年"},{"start":3016.247,"end":3027.737,"text":"確實這個相關的設備老舊甚至這個整個結構性的檢查都必須要再重啟這個真的不需要花多少錢跟花多少時間真的要慎善來評估那第二個我講的整個核廢熱的處理剛剛莊委員講的"},{"start":3030.879,"end":3046.411,"text":"不要說高階現在連第一階的廢料都因為這樣子沒辦法處理我想這不只是只有河山廠合一合二也是問題重重那為什麼我們要我們要犧牲我們的河山廠機區你們都不敢說合一合二包含我們現在的主席"},{"start":3047.291,"end":3065.061,"text":"黃國昌委員你在擔任時代力量主席的時候時代力量立委的時候你講的我想這個歷史都有記錄從2016年到2019年包含現在你們的主席貴黨的主席柯文哲他還曾經擔任過這個核電反核貪腐大隊的領隊"},{"start":3066.101,"end":3094.818,"text":"我想他也是反對到底你知道你們這個論調是怎麼樣時空背景不一樣 為了不一樣的論調那我想現在你們要提出一個空殼的一個公投不只要燒錢而且我想這樣子的一個公投不是萬靈丹也不能改變這樣一個現狀我想包含我們的賴總統跟左院長都很清楚說明了即使未來我們河山場目前就是沒有研議沒有重啟的一個必要性我想這一點也是我們的堅持謝謝"},{"start":3097.186,"end":3121.372,"text":"好 謝謝許副委員我們補充介紹到場的有民主進步黨的鍾嘉斌委員鍾委員舉手表示要發言現在有請鍾委員好 謝謝主席在場各政黨協商代表我想這是由民眾黨來提出的一個公投案首先我們就三個部分來談第一個就是說這個公投案的定位"},{"start":3122.432,"end":3136.453,"text":"他是是不是確認一下是不是屬於公投法第二條第二項第三款重大政策之創之覆決那如果是的話那我們就來看現在是根據公投法第15條"},{"start":3138.456,"end":3155.567,"text":"那麼立法院對於第二條第二項第三款之事項任有提出公民投票之必要呢他可以附具主文理由書啊經立法院院會通過那目前我們今天協調的政黨協商的目的就是要將這個案子經過協商之後呢看是不是要交付院會來通過之後那麼交付公投"},{"start":3158.871,"end":3173.752,"text":"那我想這個部分要程序上的問題就是說這一個公投的效力是什麼它是公投法第二條第二項第三款重大政策那我們開始來進入了第二部分了那如果它是這樣子的話"},{"start":3175.339,"end":3203.59,"text":"他這裡的效果我們都知道 成如剛剛許委員所說的我跟莊委員跟許委員包括民進黨全體黨團成員我們都非常的痛心因為就在不久之前藍白霞國會辦的些微優勢就通過了核管法那核管法經過通過之後本來就不管是核一核二核三都需要依核管法的規定他如果要"},{"start":3204.741,"end":3231.264,"text":"恢復運轉要恢復運轉那麼它要經過什麼樣的程序那既然都已經核管法三讀了那接下來為什麼這個公投的這個主要對象是限定是核三廠這也為什麼說明了今天我們屏東的三位委員都坐在這裡因為核三廠就在屏東啊"},{"start":3232.093,"end":3257.683,"text":"核官法通過的適用對象是核一核二核三那根據核官法如果民眾黨有任何意見可以根據核官法去提出要求對行政院提出要求根據核官法在未來發布通過實施之後那麼去做一些必要的程序現在要透過全國公民的公民投票來針對子民核三廠要優先恢復繼續運轉"},{"start":3261.308,"end":3284.027,"text":"好 那接下來呢 這樣強烈的針對性我想在場我想不只是屏東的鄉親不服屏東選出的立委不服我想全國的民眾也會很奇怪這是不是一個公投的霸凌明明根據藍白通過的核管法核一核二核三都可以在核管法修正後去申請恢復運轉"},{"start":3287.637,"end":3288.939,"text":"就是說恢復運展那樣的情況那為什麼要針對河山廠"},{"start":3293.928,"end":3322.444,"text":"坐落在屏東的核產黨來進行全國的公投是不是要挾全國的公民多數來霸凌屏東少數的民意這一點我們是嚴正的抗議我想不只我們三位屏東委員不能接受民進黨黨團也不能接受那第三個呢是要對於民眾黨提出的這個公投的主文呢做一些文藝上的確認恢復跟繼續是兩件不同的事情"},{"start":3324.668,"end":3347.847,"text":"繼續運轉就是到5月17號之前如果是河山廠的話就都不要停叫做繼續運轉繼續運轉就是現在開始走請你繼續下去無論我們現在的開會繼續開會就是沒有間斷的叫繼續開會恢復就是停止後重新啟動那到底河山廠現在這個主文是要恢復"},{"start":3349.164,"end":3369.135,"text":"假設在公投之後 停了之後再來恢復還是你希望在他5月17號之前沒有停止就持續的繼續運轉如果是後者的話 緩不濟急嘛縱使這個公投組 這樣的一個公投的院會假設在日後的院會通過要進行公投也是今年8月23號以後的事情"},{"start":3371.033,"end":3398.629,"text":"屆時核三廠是持續在運轉中所以要繼續運轉嗎還是屆時就算那個公投通過了核三廠是處在一個停止運轉要恢復運轉的狀態那為什麼一個公投主文會出現這樣的文藝上的前後矛盾到底是恢復運轉還是繼續運轉說清楚講明白如果是恢復運轉那核一現在停了也可以恢復啊核二停了未來你要透過公投恢復也可以啊"},{"start":3399.38,"end":3413.407,"text":"河山未來停了你要再恢復你公投過了也可以啊但是顯然的這個提案我要回過來第二點講就擺明的是衝著河山廠來的因為當這樣的一個提案提出的時候就只有河山廠持續在運作"},{"start":3414.548,"end":3428.58,"text":"也就是因為合唱的習慣運作這個公投主文才會變成是恢復或持續運轉最後我要說明這個矛盾清楚再給一點時間就是因為在為什麼這個公投主文這麼關鍵的重要因為根據公投法第15條"},{"start":3430.885,"end":3452.027,"text":"只要是根據15條第二項立法院用第二條第二項第三款通過的他後半段有發現了一些問題首先他不是用第17條第一項第三款第19條的規定什麼是第17條第一項第三款呢第17條第一項公投法第17條第一項第三款是說政府機關針對公民投票案提出自意見書好啦"},{"start":3454.315,"end":3480.96,"text":"表示這個案子未來不會有政府部門的提出意見書如果一旦立法院通過之後這個公投主文是行政院政府機關是不會有意見書的現在在場我們做的包括經濟部的次長台電公司的總經理他們作為核能的主管機關電廠的主管機關或是事業的運轉者他們是沒辦法提出意見的"},{"start":3481.9,"end":3495.569,"text":"那麼這種情況之下這樣的公投它具有什麼樣的一個社會正當性更何況在同法第15條第二項的中間那一段不是用第9條至第13條公投法的第9條至第13條它講的是什麼所有的民間發起的公投主文都要送到選委會選務機關去做相關事項的審查跟規範換言之這樣的一個恢復繼續運轉這樣的前後矛盾語意不通的主文"},{"start":3512.22,"end":3541.008,"text":"是在一個沒有辦法適用第12條對不起喔從第9條到第13條這些中選會作為公民投票主管機關他得以參與去幫忙審視的換言之這麼一個荒唐可笑的公投案的主文啦前後矛盾的主文呢就會假如通過的話就莫名其妙的跑到8月23號交給全國的公民來決定要不要對屏東的河山場對屏東做霸凌"},{"start":3543.776,"end":3553.569,"text":"這樣的一個提案本席或者本黨團我們的三位齊齊以為不可我們希望民眾黨懸崖勒馬不要再鬧笑話了"},{"start":3558.068,"end":3580.639,"text":"謝謝,跟各個黨團的代表簡單說明一下大家都有各自不同的政策立場,都尊重我一開始在主持協商的時候,我就說了就讓各個黨團表達各個黨團基本上面的立場,跟大家的理由剛剛大家發言的時候,我也沒有做任何的中斷或者是任何的評論因為這個是處於在協商的階段"},{"start":3584.981,"end":3597.357,"text":"如果對於公民投票這樣的意思或者是認為主文有什麼樣子的寶貴的建議那接下來大家都可以透過體修正統議或者是再修正統議來加以處理"},{"start":3598.96,"end":3620.36,"text":"至於說這樣子的公民投票到底是採取贊成的立場還是反對的立場每一個台灣人都是國家的主人到公投的時候大家都可以有自己自由意志的表達加入人民來加以做決定我想這個應該是一個最基本的道理"},{"start":3622.063,"end":3635.702,"text":"因為現在三個黨團都已經表達完了立場,顯然是沒有共識今天我吵到半夜也不會有共識,但是剛剛莊惠雄委員有舉手說他希望再爭取發言一分鐘"},{"start":3637.544,"end":3648.64,"text":"好 那是莊委員跟張委員都各一分鐘來 現在先有請莊銳雄委員謝謝主席這個恩賜的一分鐘我先糾正一下啦剛鄭店長委員講錯了不要講蘭嶼跟什麼河山沒有關係啦蘭嶼的河"},{"start":3654.668,"end":3658.349,"text":"核廢料不會是憑空出來的我告訴你核一貢獻42028桶核二廠貢獻37488桶核三廠也貢獻了將近7000桶不要講說沒關係第二個你都聽到滿洲的人講的我在跟你講恆春半島裡面你認識幾個你跟我講到滿洲去我建議這個如果你可以修"},{"start":3679.614,"end":3686.116,"text":"我絕對尊重剛主席講的說公投是人民意志的一個展現我絕對完全贊成但是我們不能亂設計你說設計這個河山要你把它重啟的話你要設計這個這樣子我反對你如果把它設計到最後說如果公投案這個成案了以後同意票最多的縣市來安置核廢料廠我贊成"},{"start":3704.892,"end":3708.256,"text":"把這個放進去的話就變成是說老百姓的爭議就出來了這個才叫做展現公投的意志你告訴他說台北市你全部贊成台北市你會分到很多核廢料喔新北市你也贊成河山重啟你也會分到很多核廢料這樣民意就展現了嘛好不好不要吵那麼久嘛那個題目再修正一下嘛 謝謝"},{"start":3727.116,"end":3733.799,"text":"好 謝謝莊委員 請張吉凱委員水泳啊 很好啊 你有提出新的意見你們自己也可以提案或者提修正嘛這很好 對對對 很好我也要跟你說 前民進黨的朋友們要看一下這個條文眼睛要張開啦 這條文裡面是否同意河山廠要經過整體的安全評估以後啊 一定 一定是安全評估嘛說實在 我們生命共同體怎麼可能說屏東不安全 全台灣安全咧"},{"start":3756.564,"end":3774.312,"text":"今天那個核安會的專家都在這邊啊沒有經過安全評估核三省有可能重啟嗎請不要危言聳聽安全評估一下核一核二我跟你在講核廢料 你在講什麼鬼東西啊你也可以安全的先固定 先確定第二個 第二個來 講出來張氣凱委員 張氣凱委員請你尊重我的會議主持我已經先插入了"},{"start":3781.636,"end":3795.329,"text":"我想要跟各位委員講的事情是剛剛大家講話有些交鋒有些情緒都沒有關係但我希望在場的委員你們在講話的時候別人沒有插嘴換別人講話的時候就讓人家講"},{"start":3797.091,"end":3798.331,"text":"其實我們經濟委員會去考察河山省的時候你也有去啊"},{"start":3817.911,"end":3833.527,"text":"當天四個鄉鎮市的不是只有恆春的鎮長附近四個縣市的鄉鎮長都有來很多的民意代表也都來附近的村民長也都來他們都明確表達他們贊成河山廠重新啟動或者研議"},{"start":3834.935,"end":3856.271,"text":"所以我覺得今天很好今天三位這個屏東的立委有來啦可是你們要尊重一下四個鄉鎮的鄉鎮長跟他們的這個名義那天是有很多的村里長都是有來的所以我重複一下我強調一下另外我強調一個點很重要啦公投 民進黨是靠公投起家的我建議你們不要汙名化公投不要汙名化公投我列一段文字給大家聽啦"},{"start":3858.144,"end":3870.457,"text":"說這段話叫做國民黨重新執政以後除了美牛公投連署不成外人民速度去提這個連署要求X法去要公投可是那時候被公投審議委員會給它駁回了他說這個"},{"start":3875.653,"end":3885.087,"text":"公審會是依照公投法成立的這是公投法裡面最荒謬的設計籠罩著威權者去操弄公投讓公投沒辦法成案所以民進黨主張把那個委員會把它廢除掉這是鄭麗菁的提案"},{"start":3891.115,"end":3919.234,"text":"後來民進黨主張所以把公投法審議委員會也刪掉了民進黨是靠公投起家的他們還把公投審議委員會把它砍掉了結果今天一路上他們都在講公投是多麼恐怖不讓人民公投我記得這樣說不過去所以第一個請尊重憲法上給予人民的權利請尊重公投的這個權利第二個我剛才講了我們尊重三位屏東立委對屏東他自己的一個看法可是我也提醒你們我們到實地去考察確實附近的四個鄉鎮從鎮長"},{"start":3921.255,"end":3936.415,"text":"就是鄉鎮長一直到民意代表到村里長還有很多民眾都是支持河山市要嚴厲的好 謝謝各位黨團的代表大家都已經發言了那我不曉得那個今天行政機關的代表有沒有特別想講話的有的話請舉手好嗎"},{"start":3938.342,"end":3956.642,"text":"好 如果行政機關的代表有沒有特別要發表意見的話那報告黨團協商會今天我們沒有辦法達成共識本案保留我們後續依照立法院職權刑事法第十二章相關的規定處理協商會議結束謝謝大家 散會"},{"start":3968.957,"end":3969.202,"text":"喔 雞蛋"}]}},{"id":"16681","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16681","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db1097a25523ba703a2eb28a9b25c087c452bdb8234cc31cacce66e1c1c766f0845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-05-16T13:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具公投提案主文為：「為保障人民參政權，您是否同意政府應於二年內於中華民國自由地區之各項選舉、公投，落實移轉投票制度法制化？」請公決案。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-05-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-05-16T13:00:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T13:23:00+08:00","duration":1377,"影片長度":"00:22:57","委員發言時間":"13:00:03 - 13:23:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2025051340","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2192.38034375,"end":2200.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2201.00346875,"end":2211.5165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2212.2928437500004,"end":2218.1990937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2218.63784375,"end":2227.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2228.29034375,"end":2234.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2235.4284687500003,"end":2249.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2250.0084687500002,"end":2257.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2257.9734687500004,"end":2260.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2261.55096875,"end":2265.9890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2266.2253437500003,"end":2272.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2272.72221875,"end":2285.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2286.39096875,"end":2288.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2288.68596875,"end":2300.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2300.90346875,"end":2434.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2435.1103437500005,"end":2461.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2461.9922187500006,"end":2469.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2469.73784375,"end":2480.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2480.3690937500005,"end":2515.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2515.84034375,"end":2523.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2524.4803437500004,"end":2531.1628437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2531.9559687500005,"end":2534.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2535.97221875,"end":2537.8622187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2538.3515937500006,"end":2543.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2543.56596875,"end":2551.5478437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2554.33221875,"end":2556.6103437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2558.07846875,"end":2561.7740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2562.3984687500006,"end":2564.2547187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2564.2547187500004,"end":2565.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2565.9590937500006,"end":2643.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2644.5965937500005,"end":2650.3847187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2650.65471875,"end":2676.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2676.81096875,"end":2720.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2720.97284375,"end":2781.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2782.6847187500007,"end":2789.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2791.1559687500003,"end":2792.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2793.5690937500003,"end":2794.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2794.98659375,"end":2807.77784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2807.87909375,"end":2823.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2823.92721875,"end":2825.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2825.5809687500005,"end":2835.8915937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2836.14471875,"end":2845.6453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2846.82659375,"end":2853.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2853.5597187500007,"end":2865.8447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2866.40159375,"end":2869.0847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2869.5740937500004,"end":2878.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2878.88909375,"end":2898.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2899.20659375,"end":2902.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2902.56471875,"end":2910.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2911.13721875,"end":2912.8415937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2913.95534375,"end":2920.5703437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2921.14409375,"end":2928.0459687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2928.06284375,"end":2928.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2928.41721875,"end":2943.5203437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2943.90846875,"end":2964.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2965.0359687500004,"end":2967.6347187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2969.1872187500003,"end":2974.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2975.00909375,"end":2978.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2979.3797187500004,"end":2981.6240937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2982.0965937500005,"end":2987.0409687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2987.47971875,"end":2988.5934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2988.99846875,"end":2991.6647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2992.13721875,"end":2993.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2994.29721875,"end":2995.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2996.2547187500004,"end":2999.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2999.6803437500002,"end":3002.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3002.85284375,"end":3012.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3013.3659687500003,"end":3018.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3018.83346875,"end":3022.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3022.2928437500004,"end":3023.3728437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3023.7272187500002,"end":3027.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3028.11471875,"end":3030.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3031.2197187500005,"end":3040.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3041.00721875,"end":3042.0028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3042.57659375,"end":3044.9053437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3045.2428437500002,"end":3047.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3047.9597187500003,"end":3049.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3050.0184687500005,"end":3053.9503437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3054.5915937500004,"end":3057.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3057.3253437500007,"end":3058.9453437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3059.5528437500006,"end":3066.7584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3067.0284687500007,"end":3071.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3071.6522187500004,"end":3074.6559687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3074.9597187500003,"end":3087.8690937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3089.5059687500006,"end":3090.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3092.1384687500004,"end":3098.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3098.38221875,"end":3099.9684687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3100.5084687500002,"end":3101.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3101.89221875,"end":3104.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3106.87034375,"end":3108.2878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3108.9122187500006,"end":3119.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3120.48846875,"end":3125.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3125.50034375,"end":3127.2722187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3127.84596875,"end":3128.2003437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3128.9090937500005,"end":3129.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3139.3884687500004,"end":3147.8428437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3152.97284375,"end":3158.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3156.6178437500002,"end":3156.8878437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3159.5203437500004,"end":3160.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3160.02659375,"end":3161.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3161.84909375,"end":3162.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3162.8953437500004,"end":3163.0303437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3163.40159375,"end":3165.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3165.6797187500006,"end":3167.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3173.22284375,"end":3174.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3197.2528437500005,"end":3198.5184687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3199.58159375,"end":3204.0534687500003}],"whisperx":[{"start":2192.698,"end":2211.299,"text":"好 謝謝大家那個本次黨團協商會議的主題是本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬拒公投提案為保障人民參政權您是否同意政府應於二年內於中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實以轉投票制度法制化請公決案"},{"start":2212.36,"end":2227.293,"text":"本院於114年4月18日本院第十一屆第三會議及第八次會議決議本案盡附二讀交付黨團協商並由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商現在介紹在場的委員及行政"},{"start":2228.874,"end":2256.611,"text":"機關列席的代表那首先介紹民主進步黨的張宏祿委員那中國國民黨的王宏威委員那以及我們台灣民眾黨的劉書斌委員那今天也感謝我們的行政機關有派代表來包括中央選舉委員會選務處王小林處長法政處蔡清這什麼告處長不好意思希望蔡處長不要介意"},{"start":2258.592,"end":2284.907,"text":"內政部的吳安堂常務次長吳堂安常務次長民政司的鄭英宏司長司法院司法行政訴訟及懲戒廳何孝剛法官以及我們的法務部廖江縣參事好那謝謝各位行政機關來列席的代表我們現在是不是因為發言前所以如下每個黨團都發言每次我有發言的時間"},{"start":2286.608,"end":2299.478,"text":"我們希望能夠就大家檢要三分鐘為限我們先請提案的台灣民眾黨黨團代表發言我們後續再請其他的兩位黨團發言我們先請劉委員好 謝謝主席在場的官員跟其他兩黨的委員大家好本黨提出來的公投案最主要是基於憲法17條賦予公民的這樣的一個選舉罷免創制 覆決的這個四個權"},{"start":2316.536,"end":2327.223,"text":"那這個四個權之所以重要在於是最主要是民主的基礎那我們最重要的是在各國我們事實上每次投票的狀況都是大概有20幾%的選民是沒辦法因為他工作或者是求學甚至是因為治療因素他沒有辦法在當天到現場他的投票所他戶籍在地的投票所去做投票"},{"start":2345.916,"end":2370.117,"text":"那這個地方在全世界各國都已經有了這種針對要把公民參政權能夠落實所以都已經有了包括了是各種的這種移轉投票那這種不在籍的投票更是一個我們也都是已經在各國都實施包括我們現在看到的是在國外他們我們常熟悉像印尼菲律賓都可以移工到我們這邊來去做這個公民投票"},{"start":2370.777,"end":2377.463,"text":"好那這個部分呢更重要的是在我們本國之內呢在85年的時候中選會呢也有針對選罷法這邊在研修這個專案小組的採取所謂不在籍投票這部分已經到現在85年到現在多久了"},{"start":2388.712,"end":2391.555,"text":"已經114年了等於說是有30年的這個時間都沒有都沒有在進展那聯安政部也有在講所以他們最重要的理由是說要兼顧這個秘密投票跟社會責任的這個社會的信任度"},{"start":2404.145,"end":2413.535,"text":"但是這個部分我們這個信任度秘密投票這部分如果是在國內的本當日還有親自去投票的話這個部分應該不是問題信任度的部分的話就是在於說有人是當初這樣討論到是國外的尤其像台商他如果在各地特別是如果在中國的部分"},{"start":2425.848,"end":2450.448,"text":"他到時候去做這樣的投票是有疑慮的所以本黨最重要的是在討論說是要針對的是在國內的國內的轉移轉投票在他登記的如果做事前他去做個登記的話他在他的工作實際上他住的這個地方去做這樣的一個登記之後他可以去做現場的投票這個部分在很多的做"},{"start":2451.829,"end":2468.82,"text":"投開票所的工作人員事實上都已經做了這個事情這絕對不會是大問題那更重要的是應該要去注意到的這樣的問題就已經不會是大問題的時候不要再去找其他的理由而且這個地方當然有"},{"start":2470.541,"end":2483.75,"text":"之前我們在做這個案的時候呢有執政黨的委員有提到說是不是應該要有其他的一個就是說是不是你們這個是可以修法可是問題是重要的是"},{"start":2485.111,"end":2490.712,"text":"大民主 已經30年了 過去在民進黨在執政的時候2016年到2024年的這個情況之下8年期間你們執政了 你們都沒有去做那就是你們當初在在野黨 成人式在野黨的時候做這樣的事情你們都不做 那現在就變得說 我們就而且真的要開始要做的時候 你們可能會一直在杯葛因此用最符合到民主進步黨所說的 大民主"},{"start":2511.036,"end":2534.169,"text":"這樣的情況下我們用直接民主的這種方式讓公民有這樣的機會來進行透過來約束到立法院必須要去尊重到直接民意的最高的這樣的一個意義存在著好 謝謝好 謝謝劉書斌委員我們補充介紹那到場的委員還有中國國民黨的羅志強委員那民主進步黨的王惠美委員"},{"start":2536.358,"end":2555.803,"text":"王美惠委員,不好意思,特辭跟王委員致歉,王美惠委員,我回家會複習十次好,那現在不曉得中國國民黨跟民主進步黨黨團哪一位委員要先代表發言好,那就請王洪威委員,謝謝"},{"start":2558.581,"end":2572.315,"text":"那先請教主席,我們是不是有三分鐘?是,有三分鐘的限制,是好,謝謝主席喔好,那我想喔,就是說最近喔,大家也都知道那菲律賓呢,做他們的大選"},{"start":2573.956,"end":2601.513,"text":"在台湾菲律宾的移工也蛮多的所以过去其实有很多次大家都特别讨论在台湾的东南亚的移工不管是菲律宾或者是印尼在他们国内有重大选举的时候即便他们人不在国内也是一样是可以投票的也就是说他仍然可以去实行他的一个公民的权利"},{"start":2602.273,"end":2604.554,"text":"但是在台灣事實上我們在這個不管選舉或公投投票事實上我們被限縮的不要說在海外的投票權我們事實上連在國內本身尤其每次到了選舉我們有一些的族群"},{"start":2619.418,"end":2642.533,"text":"事實上呢 因為他們工作 特殊工作的性質沒有辦法進行投票 這裡面 譬如說過去我們常講的 軍 警 還有像護理人員因為大家知道台灣的護理人員很忙他們根本有時候都在工作崗位上走不開那所以 其實長期以來 就是應該"},{"start":2644.659,"end":2660.736,"text":"推行不再急投票那事實上是一直大家討論的議題那可能我想可能對民進黨團來說因為在上一次我看到也有很多民進黨團的立委也都有發表言論"},{"start":2662.357,"end":2676.363,"text":"說這個修法就好了不需要來做公投但是事實上我們現在立法院裡面有關於不在籍投票有沒有這個版本有的包含我個人都有提出版本"},{"start":2677.043,"end":2686.648,"text":"那我們提出版本之後呢 其實尤其在海外投票的部分那很多就會給他賦予說 這個會使得中共可以來影響我們的投票那這當然就是針對廣大的台商 或者是在大陸工作 或者投資 或者就學的台胞"},{"start":2700.896,"end":2719.141,"text":"那所以所謂的海外的這個投票權就會容易又染上政治甚至直接給你丟上猴帽子那所以我覺得在這一次的這個我們的公投案裡面因為我們的我們的這個修法事實上我要講的從"},{"start":2721.842,"end":2740.417,"text":"這個會期應該是這個屆一開始其實在立法院就有版本那與其這樣子推行其實非常非常的緩慢那我們也知道嘛其實民主我們在國會裡面我們是代議士那同樣的公投就是最直接的民主那我套一句賴總統所說的話"},{"start":2742.358,"end":2748.84,"text":"用更大的民主來決定我們公民投票的權利所以我想這也符合包含賴總統跟民進黨的同朋友們一個所謂的更大的民主的一個合法合理的一個程序所以對國民黨團來講我們支持這個公投案那也希望在國會裡面我們"},{"start":2770.845,"end":2788.662,"text":"跨黨派都能夠去支持用更大的民主來決定讓我們的公民來決定他們可以行使他們應有的權利 以上 謝謝好 非常感謝王洪瑞委員那請問民主進步黨黨團是不是請張宏祿委員代表發言來 請張委員好 謝謝"},{"start":2793.638,"end":2822.884,"text":"其實這個要移轉投票或不再集投票不再集投票裡面的裡面有包括移轉投票裡面是一種要修法也可以其實公投也是權利我們也不能說不行不過如果說就我們現在所說的這個公投的題目這樣子我覺得會有一點點問題為什麼第一個移轉投票台灣現在已經有實施了"},{"start":2824.044,"end":2845.316,"text":"實施的對象是什麼所有的在投開票所工作的工作人員他們每一次投開票所他們都已經有移轉投票了這是事實那再來如果說中華民國自由地區之各項選舉公投落實移轉投票法制化"},{"start":2846.889,"end":2868.837,"text":"以我辦過多次選舉的經驗,只要是縣市長、縣市議員那次的選舉因為選到代表村里長,你光印製選票,全台灣會有八千多張的選票為什麼?光村里長就七八千人了"},{"start":2870.016,"end":2898.241,"text":"這樣子的話我們能不能夠有這個能量去印製這麼多的選票因為如果是照這個主文的話所有的選務工作必須要做到這些八千多張的選票我相信在台灣應該沒有辦法有這個能力去負擔啦所以我個人我是覺得說啦在現在的情況之下台灣如果真的要實施"},{"start":2899.541,"end":2927.471,"text":"這個移轉投票其實公投跟總統我認為是比較合適的你把所有的選舉都放進去我真的覺得村里長就沒有辦法而且以選務的經驗來講如果你把村里長放下去甚至代表議員就好了你在你移轉投票的地方那一張票了不起一張兩張不會超過很多張票"},{"start":2928.516,"end":2942.842,"text":"那你有沒有投這一張票我跟你講馬上就可以看得出來了那你會造成很多選舉實務上的困擾這點我就不多說了困擾是什麼所以我覺得"},{"start":2944.825,"end":2966.278,"text":"你要把所有的這些我認為是不可行那如果你不把村里長代表甚至縣市議員有的地區大概幾百票就選上了這些你不排除掉你就算這個公投過了我覺得好像執行非常困難以上"},{"start":2969.912,"end":2993.224,"text":"謝謝張宏祿委員我先跟各位黨團的代表做一下報告我們目前協商的主題是針對這個公投提案我只針對這個公投提案至於說公投內容你要贊成還是反對這個是下一個階段的事情也就是說如果假設真的成案了以後交付公民投票"},{"start":2994.335,"end":3011.661,"text":"台灣的每一個公民每一個政黨都可以有自己他的看法譬如說我就反對移轉投票那你就大聲說我反對移轉投票這樣會造成選務困難投票秘密諸如此類的操作不下去整個會議癱瘓掉"},{"start":3013.442,"end":3041.734,"text":"反正台灣是一個民主多元的社會公共政策都可以拿出來辯論所以大家也都可以說那我就是反對移轉投票在這個公投案我行使作為國家主任的權利我就是要投反對票那如果出來的結果是反對多於贊成那我們也必須要尊重這樣子的結果嘛所以我只是先跟各位黨團報告就是說今天協商的主題是說這件事情交付"},{"start":3042.854,"end":3058.513,"text":"讓全台灣的公民來做決定這一件事情大家贊成或不贊成那至於說你再不贊成移轉投票這件事情那個是第二個層次的問題等到真的成案的時候每一個公民每一個政黨"},{"start":3060.135,"end":3087.695,"text":"大家都可以有不同的看法立場跟意見甚至覺得這個公投的主文寫的不好其他的各個黨團要針對這個公投主文提出修正動議或再修正動議在我們最後表決之前大家通通都有這個機會我先跟大家做這樣的說明跟報告那我有先徵詢一下就是到場的那個羅委員是不是要發言不用"},{"start":3089.697,"end":3104.267,"text":"是 請既然看起來就沒有共識嘛那就叫院長寫商務之後進行下一個流程就好了那請問王偉源有沒有意見沒有沒有嗎行政機關的代表有要講話嗎你希望講話是不是不用嘛因為看起來是兩個黨團贊成一個黨團不贊成嘛"},{"start":3116.15,"end":3124.703,"text":"所以我們今天第一個主題的協商就沒有共識我們接下來就交由院長協商或者是依照議事規則來加以處理謝謝各位黨團的代表"},{"start":3139.548,"end":3147.554,"text":"我們第二場協商是表定一點半不好意思我們先休息一下,下一場協商是一點半開始,謝謝大家"},{"start":3173.376,"end":3173.556,"text":"歡迎光臨"},{"start":3200.191,"end":3201.211,"text":"法定人數不足"}]}},{"id":"16680","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16680","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a6091097a25523ba703a313f24779fd214cf52bdb8234cc31cacc59045f2dffeb71c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-05-16","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-05-16T08:30:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T17:12:00+08:00","duration":31292,"影片長度":"08:41:32","委員發言時間":"08:30:28 - 17:12:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1780.8159687500001,"end":1783.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1785.1697187500001,"end":1788.1565937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1802.5509687500003,"end":1802.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1803.3609687500002,"end":1806.0778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1806.9047187500003,"end":1807.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1808.3728437500001,"end":1810.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1810.4990937500002,"end":1815.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1815.7303437500002,"end":1821.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1822.2947187500001,"end":1824.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1825.0284687500002,"end":1826.6822187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1827.8465937500002,"end":1833.4490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1833.7528437500002,"end":1836.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1836.4022187500002,"end":1841.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1841.6503437500003,"end":1843.4728437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1844.08034375,"end":1846.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1846.88159375,"end":1848.4678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1849.0584687500002,"end":1852.8722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1853.05784375,"end":1854.8128437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1855.0659687500001,"end":1858.13721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1858.9303437500002,"end":1859.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1860.22971875,"end":1863.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1863.5540937500002,"end":1869.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1869.93284375,"end":1879.3153437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1879.9565937500001,"end":1881.5597187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1881.9647187500002,"end":1891.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1891.7690937500001,"end":1894.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1894.7728437500002,"end":1897.4897187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1898.1140937500002,"end":1899.8353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1900.17284375,"end":1903.6322187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1903.9190937500002,"end":1907.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1907.5303437500002,"end":1910.1122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1910.29784375,"end":1917.7734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1918.1953437500001,"end":1921.6715937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1922.11034375,"end":1925.3165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1925.5528437500002,"end":1928.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1929.4678437500002,"end":1931.3409687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1931.52659375,"end":1932.5728437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1933.3322187500003,"end":1934.9859687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1935.20534375,"end":1937.5172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1937.73659375,"end":1946.0897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1946.2584687500002,"end":1947.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1948.3172187500002,"end":1951.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1951.6753437500001,"end":1958.3578437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1958.6278437500002,"end":1960.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1960.8890937500003,"end":1964.7028437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1964.9897187500003,"end":1966.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1966.7447187500002,"end":1969.6640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1970.64284375,"end":1972.5159687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1972.7184687500003,"end":1976.6503437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1976.9034687500002,"end":1982.4722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":1982.6747187500002,"end":1984.2947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1987.23096875,"end":1995.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1996.4278437500002,"end":1999.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":1999.3472187500001,"end":2002.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2017.8084687500002,"end":2018.5340937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2018.6690937500002,"end":2019.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2020.55909375,"end":2022.2297187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2023.78221875,"end":2028.0515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2028.7603437500002,"end":2030.4647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2030.9203437500003,"end":2035.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2035.88159375,"end":2038.1090937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2038.5309687500003,"end":2041.9903437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2043.0028437500002,"end":2046.8165937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2047.1203437500003,"end":2048.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2048.9597187500003,"end":2050.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2050.7147187500004,"end":2053.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2054.78159375,"end":2058.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2058.7978437500005,"end":2062.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2062.61159375,"end":2069.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2069.71596875,"end":2074.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2075.3184687500006,"end":2077.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2077.68096875,"end":2080.2459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2080.7184687500003,"end":2085.2409687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2086.3209687500002,"end":2090.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2092.80096875,"end":2095.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2095.4840937500003,"end":2101.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2101.8122187500003,"end":2105.7947187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2105.99721875,"end":2114.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2115.3290937500005,"end":2121.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2122.2478437500004,"end":2131.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2132.3053437500002,"end":2136.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2137.0303437500006,"end":2138.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2139.0215937500006,"end":2145.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2145.92346875,"end":2146.4297187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2146.80096875,"end":2156.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2157.41534375,"end":2165.5997187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2166.4434687500006,"end":2169.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2170.13909375,"end":2176.1297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2176.88909375,"end":2183.1328437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_47","start":2183.68971875,"end":2184.4490937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2188.88721875,"end":2194.1015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2207.1628437500003,"end":2209.8797187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2211.11159375,"end":2211.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2212.2422187500006,"end":2213.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2213.57534375,"end":2216.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2217.32159375,"end":2226.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2226.67034375,"end":2237.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2238.1453437500004,"end":2244.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2245.04721875,"end":2260.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2260.90971875,"end":2266.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2267.42346875,"end":2305.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2305.7803437500006,"end":2311.7878437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2312.1084687500006,"end":2378.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2379.1697187500004,"end":2388.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":2388.53534375,"end":2390.2734687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2396.75346875,"end":2398.6940937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2399.0653437500005,"end":2411.5528437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2412.1434687500005,"end":2412.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2413.5272187500004,"end":2417.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2426.5378437500003,"end":2427.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2428.27596875,"end":2432.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2432.95034375,"end":2435.9540937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2436.22409375,"end":2436.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2437.67534375,"end":2446.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":2549.0672187500004,"end":2551.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2580.1003437500003,"end":2582.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_54","start":2583.2390937500004,"end":2588.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2593.2459687500004,"end":2598.4265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2611.3865937500004,"end":2614.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2614.7615937500004,"end":2633.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2633.7628437500007,"end":2633.8809687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2633.96534375,"end":2644.4615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2645.05221875,"end":2652.6797187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2653.01721875,"end":2653.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2653.06784375,"end":2662.1465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2662.93971875,"end":2710.2234687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2710.9659687500007,"end":2712.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2713.63221875,"end":2728.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2729.0222187500003,"end":2737.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2737.8984687500006,"end":2760.4434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2760.88221875,"end":2766.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2767.04159375,"end":2768.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":2768.7628437500007,"end":2792.0672187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2795.0372187500006,"end":2800.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2816.3503437500003,"end":2889.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2889.3515937500006,"end":2890.9209687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2891.79846875,"end":2947.8065937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2948.4140937500006,"end":2949.7978437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2950.84409375,"end":2952.2109687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2952.64971875,"end":2968.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":2969.00159375,"end":2973.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":2977.5909687500007,"end":2984.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5381.2997187500005,"end":5385.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5387.25659375,"end":5390.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5390.88471875,"end":5396.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5397.76971875,"end":5399.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5400.09846875,"end":5419.352843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5419.673468749999,"end":5423.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5423.92596875,"end":5435.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5435.670968750001,"end":5437.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5439.231593750001,"end":5443.65284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5446.65659375,"end":5447.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5449.2215937500005,"end":5476.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5478.38159375,"end":5484.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5484.507218750001,"end":5490.936593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5491.1728437500005,"end":5498.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5498.63159375,"end":5499.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5500.13346875,"end":5501.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5502.29346875,"end":5504.892218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5505.24659375,"end":5507.9803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5508.182843750001,"end":5512.671593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5513.093468749999,"end":5515.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5516.18159375,"end":5520.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5520.029093749999,"end":5524.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5523.80909375,"end":5524.062218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5524.163468750001,"end":5524.214093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5524.247843749999,"end":5527.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5528.55096875,"end":5531.520968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5531.55471875,"end":5551.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5552.04096875,"end":5564.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5564.78159375,"end":5568.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5568.94971875,"end":5569.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5571.05909375,"end":5571.075968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5571.075968749999,"end":5575.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5575.17659375,"end":5584.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5585.35221875,"end":5593.637843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5593.89096875,"end":5598.919718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5599.358468750001,"end":5601.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5601.5184687500005,"end":5613.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5613.71909375,"end":5620.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5620.55346875,"end":5622.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5622.224093750001,"end":5632.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5632.720343749999,"end":5635.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5635.622843749999,"end":5643.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":5643.48659375,"end":5649.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5649.34221875,"end":5649.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5649.44346875,"end":5660.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5661.05346875,"end":5661.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5661.8465937500005,"end":5670.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5670.48659375,"end":5672.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5672.83221875,"end":5683.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5683.19346875,"end":5684.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5684.77971875,"end":5694.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5694.66846875,"end":5695.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5695.27596875,"end":5695.2928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5695.2928437499995,"end":5695.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5695.529093749999,"end":5704.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5703.6122187500005,"end":5704.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5704.776593750001,"end":5714.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5714.96909375,"end":5715.137843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5715.137843750001,"end":5715.323468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5715.66096875,"end":5726.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5726.325968749999,"end":5727.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5727.30471875,"end":5738.560343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5738.12159375,"end":5738.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5738.8134687500005,"end":5747.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5747.72346875,"end":5748.651593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5748.651593750001,"end":5758.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5758.2197187500005,"end":5759.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5759.11409375,"end":5759.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5759.13096875,"end":5771.145968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5770.74096875,"end":5771.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5771.63534375,"end":5780.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":5779.98846875,"end":5780.899718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5781.169718749999,"end":5789.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5789.16846875,"end":5789.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5789.59034375,"end":5789.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5789.894093750001,"end":5789.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5789.96159375,"end":5797.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5797.15034375,"end":5798.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5798.061593750001,"end":5808.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5807.62971875,"end":5808.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5808.76034375,"end":5816.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5816.53971875,"end":5817.687218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5816.6747187500005,"end":5816.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5817.029093749999,"end":5817.079718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5817.687218749999,"end":5825.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5825.382218750001,"end":5826.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5826.276593750001,"end":5836.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5835.7772187499995,"end":5836.823468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5836.84034375,"end":5848.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5850.15471875,"end":5850.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5851.28534375,"end":5861.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5861.46096875,"end":5862.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5862.47346875,"end":5871.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5871.2147187499995,"end":5872.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5872.17659375,"end":5883.887843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5883.077843749999,"end":5884.157843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5884.24221875,"end":5893.962218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5893.405343750001,"end":5893.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5893.962218750001,"end":5894.4178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5894.4178437499995,"end":5904.509093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5904.72846875,"end":5904.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5904.745343750001,"end":5913.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5913.554093750001,"end":5914.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5914.56659375,"end":5920.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5920.84409375,"end":5926.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5925.687218749999,"end":5926.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5926.75034375,"end":5935.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5936.149718750001,"end":5936.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":5936.16659375,"end":5937.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5937.11159375,"end":5937.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5937.14534375,"end":5946.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5946.44346875,"end":5947.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5947.624718749999,"end":5956.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5955.80909375,"end":5955.825968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5955.825968749999,"end":5956.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5956.534718750001,"end":5956.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5956.78784375,"end":5964.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5964.280343750001,"end":5965.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5965.309718750001,"end":5977.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":5976.7509687500005,"end":5977.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5977.628468750001,"end":5988.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5987.702843749999,"end":5988.698468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":5988.698468750001,"end":6000.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":5999.9540937500005,"end":6000.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6000.86534375,"end":6023.528468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6023.342843750001,"end":6024.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6024.186593750001,"end":6033.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6033.602843750001,"end":6039.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6040.52159375,"end":6043.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6044.72346875,"end":6045.0272187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6045.58409375,"end":6057.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6056.36721875,"end":6057.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6057.39659375,"end":6068.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6068.044718749999,"end":6068.989718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6069.05721875,"end":6081.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6080.4647187499995,"end":6081.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6081.52784375,"end":6089.86409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6089.3915937500005,"end":6090.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6090.57284375,"end":6101.001593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6100.56284375,"end":6101.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6101.5584687499995,"end":6113.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6112.5947187500005,"end":6113.607218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6113.759093750001,"end":6123.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6122.97284375,"end":6129.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6129.790343750001,"end":6132.929093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6133.23284375,"end":6143.155343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6142.93596875,"end":6143.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6143.91471875,"end":6152.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6152.0653437500005,"end":6152.9090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6153.14534375,"end":6162.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6161.81909375,"end":6162.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6162.91596875,"end":6173.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6172.97346875,"end":6173.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6173.86784375,"end":6182.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6182.96346875,"end":6190.1522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6190.4559687500005,"end":6193.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6194.151593750001,"end":6204.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6204.462218750001,"end":6214.030343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6213.70971875,"end":6214.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6214.6209687499995,"end":6222.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6222.24846875,"end":6222.974093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6222.737843750001,"end":6222.788468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6222.974093750001,"end":6223.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6223.19346875,"end":6231.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6230.5340937500005,"end":6231.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6231.63096875,"end":6240.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6239.528468750001,"end":6240.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6240.38909375,"end":6249.231593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6248.7928437499995,"end":6249.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6249.889718750001,"end":6257.6522187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6257.247218750001,"end":6258.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6258.19221875,"end":6267.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6267.034718750001,"end":6273.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6274.00409375,"end":6274.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6275.35409375,"end":6279.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6279.53909375,"end":6291.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6291.11534375,"end":6291.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6291.925343750001,"end":6300.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6300.936593750001,"end":6302.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6302.573468750001,"end":6312.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6312.175343750001,"end":6313.356593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6314.26784375,"end":6323.059718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6323.059718750001,"end":6324.122843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6323.22846875,"end":6323.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6324.359093749999,"end":6332.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6332.08784375,"end":6332.982218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6333.15096875,"end":6341.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6342.128468750001,"end":6343.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6342.56721875,"end":6343.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6344.30534375,"end":6354.548468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6353.97471875,"end":6354.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6354.835343750001,"end":6364.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6364.8759687500005,"end":6372.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6373.347218750001,"end":6377.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6378.139718750001,"end":6386.847218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6386.712218750001,"end":6387.606593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6387.6572187500005,"end":6397.124093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6396.7528437500005,"end":6397.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6397.815968750001,"end":6415.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6415.65284375,"end":6416.513468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6416.513468749999,"end":6416.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6416.54721875,"end":6424.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6424.5965937500005,"end":6425.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6425.27159375,"end":6433.118468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6432.49409375,"end":6433.439093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6433.388468749999,"end":6442.298468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6441.977843750001,"end":6442.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6442.97346875,"end":6453.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6452.69346875,"end":6453.689093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6453.689093750001,"end":6464.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6463.74659375,"end":6464.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6464.64096875,"end":6476.284718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6476.11596875,"end":6477.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6477.01034375,"end":6484.874093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6484.5028437500005,"end":6484.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6484.97534375,"end":6485.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6485.41409375,"end":6490.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6490.155968749999,"end":6496.5009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6496.56846875,"end":6499.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6499.639718750001,"end":6500.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6500.989718750001,"end":6509.798468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6509.528468750001,"end":6510.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6510.4228437500005,"end":6517.257218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6517.03784375,"end":6517.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6517.08846875,"end":6517.999718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6517.999718749999,"end":6526.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6526.302218750001,"end":6527.432843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6527.669093750001,"end":6539.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6538.772843750001,"end":6539.8865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6539.9540937500005,"end":6557.0653437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6556.626593750001,"end":6557.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6557.571593750001,"end":6568.776593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6568.304093750001,"end":6569.282843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6569.434718750001,"end":6579.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6579.23909375,"end":6580.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6580.18409375,"end":6591.743468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6591.186593750001,"end":6592.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6592.13159375,"end":6601.530968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6601.530968749999,"end":6601.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6601.952843749999,"end":6613.765343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6613.394093750001,"end":6614.187218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6614.96346875,"end":6632.429093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6632.12534375,"end":6633.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6633.1884687500005,"end":6643.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6642.72284375,"end":6643.718468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6643.920968750001,"end":6654.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6654.450968749999,"end":6655.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6655.682843750001,"end":6664.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6664.23846875,"end":6665.234093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6665.234093749999,"end":6675.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6674.751593750001,"end":6675.645968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6675.747218750001,"end":6687.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6687.171593749999,"end":6688.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6688.724093750001,"end":6703.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6702.84846875,"end":6702.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6702.86534375,"end":6703.911593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6703.97909375,"end":6711.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6710.948468750001,"end":6711.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6712.028468750001,"end":6729.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6729.983468750001,"end":6730.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6730.911593750001,"end":6739.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6738.927218750001,"end":6739.9228437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6739.9228437500005,"end":6746.942843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6746.942843750001,"end":6751.769093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6752.055968750001,"end":6766.399718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6765.977843750001,"end":6766.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6767.057843750001,"end":6775.866593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6775.66409375,"end":6776.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6776.87909375,"end":6790.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6789.7040937500005,"end":6790.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6790.61534375,"end":6799.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6799.28909375,"end":6800.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6801.29721875,"end":6812.384093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6812.097218750001,"end":6813.2615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6813.312218749999,"end":6820.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6820.669718749999,"end":6821.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6821.68221875,"end":6833.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6833.1572187500005,"end":6834.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6834.169718749999,"end":6842.7928437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6842.69159375,"end":6843.552218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6843.7040937500005,"end":6846.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6846.4715937500005,"end":6846.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6846.505343750001,"end":6853.727843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6853.255343750001,"end":6854.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6854.30159375,"end":6863.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6863.430968750001,"end":6864.325343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6864.409718750001,"end":6876.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6876.62721875,"end":6877.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6877.04909375,"end":6877.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6877.065968750001,"end":6877.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6877.589093750001,"end":6888.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6888.62534375,"end":6889.485968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6889.51971875,"end":6903.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6903.880343750001,"end":6904.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6904.352843750001,"end":6910.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6910.51221875,"end":6911.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6911.6259687500005,"end":6919.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":6919.017218750001,"end":6920.0634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6920.11409375,"end":6931.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6932.669093750001,"end":6933.225968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6933.44534375,"end":6942.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6943.249718750001,"end":6945.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6946.1522187499995,"end":6979.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":6980.661593750001,"end":6988.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":6988.45784375,"end":7020.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":7020.80721875,"end":7032.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8980.028468750003,"end":8986.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8986.91346875,"end":8990.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8990.237843750001,"end":8997.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":8997.831593750001,"end":9013.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9013.64346875,"end":9015.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9015.246593750002,"end":9016.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9016.90034375,"end":9023.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9023.86971875,"end":9026.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9027.66659375,"end":9040.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9041.33534375,"end":9043.343468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9043.59659375,"end":9050.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9050.954093750002,"end":9067.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9066.83346875,"end":9076.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9076.992218750001,"end":9092.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9092.247218750003,"end":9094.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9094.660343750002,"end":9102.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9102.43971875,"end":9118.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9118.335968750001,"end":9127.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9127.97159375,"end":9144.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9144.15471875,"end":9146.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9146.669093750003,"end":9147.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9148.22159375,"end":9154.735343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9154.988468750002,"end":9170.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9170.85096875,"end":9176.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9178.44471875,"end":9182.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9182.579093750002,"end":9194.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9194.374718750001,"end":9197.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9197.749718750001,"end":9209.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9210.152843750002,"end":9213.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9214.050968750002,"end":9216.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9216.12659375,"end":9221.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9221.594093750002,"end":9241.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9241.40534375,"end":9284.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9284.925968750002,"end":9290.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9291.203468750002,"end":9302.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9315.840968750003,"end":9317.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9317.899718750003,"end":9319.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9321.055343750002,"end":9322.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9323.18159375,"end":9324.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9324.734093750001,"end":9326.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9326.421593750001,"end":9327.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9328.24409375,"end":9330.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9330.910343750002,"end":9332.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9334.015343750001,"end":9340.191593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9340.984718750002,"end":9345.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9346.148468750001,"end":9348.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9348.527843750002,"end":9353.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9354.24846875,"end":9360.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9361.15034375,"end":9367.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9369.06471875,"end":9375.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9376.06784375,"end":9383.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9384.45471875,"end":9386.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9386.867843750002,"end":9388.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9389.702843750001,"end":9394.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9395.42346875,"end":9399.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9399.76034375,"end":9402.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9403.540343750003,"end":9404.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9405.41346875,"end":9406.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9406.915343750003,"end":9407.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9408.265343750001,"end":9409.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9410.290343750003,"end":9416.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9417.040343750003,"end":9426.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9426.96284375,"end":9430.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9430.253468750001,"end":9432.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9432.852218750002,"end":9442.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9443.43284375,"end":9447.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9448.47846875,"end":9452.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9453.878468750001,"end":9458.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9458.957843750002,"end":9462.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9463.429718750001,"end":9467.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9467.68221875,"end":9471.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9471.597218750001,"end":9478.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9478.634093750003,"end":9482.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9483.105968750002,"end":9488.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9488.792843750001,"end":9492.960968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9494.024093750002,"end":9496.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9497.43284375,"end":9499.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9499.52534375,"end":9500.706593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9501.17909375,"end":9501.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9502.52909375,"end":9503.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9503.91284375,"end":9512.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9512.890343750001,"end":9518.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9518.40846875,"end":9520.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9520.602218750002,"end":9534.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9535.148468750001,"end":9541.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9542.590343750002,"end":9544.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9544.649093750002,"end":9551.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9551.93909375,"end":9552.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9553.862843750001,"end":9554.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9555.499718750001,"end":9556.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9556.883468750002,"end":9557.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9558.01409375,"end":9559.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9559.515968750002,"end":9561.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9562.13159375,"end":9563.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9565.18596875,"end":9567.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9567.83534375,"end":9570.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9571.36221875,"end":9572.695343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9572.965343750002,"end":9578.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9579.495968750001,"end":9589.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9590.07659375,"end":9600.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9600.94409375,"end":9601.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9602.10846875,"end":9616.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9617.12721875,"end":9618.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9621.059093750002,"end":9623.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9623.70846875,"end":9629.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9629.19284375,"end":9633.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9642.254093750002,"end":9660.917843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9661.37346875,"end":9673.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9673.40534375,"end":9676.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9677.472218750001,"end":9687.023468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9687.546593750001,"end":9689.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9689.352218750002,"end":9694.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9694.887218750002,"end":9696.405968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9696.625343750002,"end":9698.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9698.464718750001,"end":9707.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9707.89784375,"end":9714.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9715.356593750003,"end":9717.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9718.59659375,"end":9732.315968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9733.547843750002,"end":9738.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9738.40784375,"end":9743.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9743.43659375,"end":9745.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9746.355968750002,"end":9751.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9752.39721875,"end":9756.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9757.29096875,"end":9761.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9762.285968750002,"end":9767.601593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9768.192218750002,"end":9775.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9775.465343750002,"end":9789.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9790.872218750003,"end":9800.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9801.16596875,"end":9803.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9803.86596875,"end":9812.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9812.894093750001,"end":9823.812218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":9824.01471875,"end":9825.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9828.503468750001,"end":9834.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9849.37784375,"end":9851.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9852.48284375,"end":9860.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9861.426593750002,"end":9864.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9864.12659375,"end":9865.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9865.29096875,"end":9871.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9871.922843750002,"end":9882.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9883.245968750001,"end":9887.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9887.81909375,"end":9892.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9893.067218750002,"end":9893.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9894.164093750001,"end":9900.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9900.964718750001,"end":9902.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9902.38221875,"end":9905.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9905.80784375,"end":9908.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9908.89596875,"end":9916.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9916.92846875,"end":9921.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9921.704093750002,"end":9923.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9924.285968750002,"end":9936.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9937.718468750001,"end":9943.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9943.641593750002,"end":9950.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9951.134093750003,"end":9966.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9966.28784375,"end":9972.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":9974.590343750002,"end":9980.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_51","start":9976.024718750003,"end":9976.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9992.76471875,"end":9993.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":9994.23284375,"end":10010.331593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10010.53409375,"end":10011.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10012.42409375,"end":10018.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10018.684718750003,"end":10023.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10023.91596875,"end":10026.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10027.30784375,"end":10030.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10030.480343750001,"end":10032.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10032.555968750003,"end":10036.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10037.550968750002,"end":10042.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10043.38971875,"end":10058.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10058.83034375,"end":10062.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10062.67784375,"end":10067.993468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10068.465968750003,"end":10069.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10069.44471875,"end":10071.874718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10072.07721875,"end":10075.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10075.50284375,"end":10082.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10083.113468750002,"end":10088.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10088.327843750001,"end":10097.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10097.54159375,"end":10099.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10100.44409375,"end":10101.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10101.76034375,"end":10104.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10105.18596875,"end":10115.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10115.766593750002,"end":10123.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10123.815968750001,"end":10129.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10129.82346875,"end":10134.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10135.223468750002,"end":10140.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10140.45471875,"end":10143.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10143.289718750002,"end":10153.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10154.07284375,"end":10174.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10177.782218750002,"end":10182.254093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10192.46346875,"end":10193.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10194.758468750002,"end":10200.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10200.52971875,"end":10201.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10201.96409375,"end":10205.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10206.199718750002,"end":10208.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10208.309093750002,"end":10212.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10212.98346875,"end":10219.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10220.35784375,"end":10224.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10224.559718750003,"end":10226.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10226.31471875,"end":10234.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10234.718468750001,"end":10238.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10238.835968750001,"end":10247.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10247.965343750002,"end":10271.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10271.60721875,"end":10282.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10283.301593750002,"end":10287.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10288.44846875,"end":10297.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10299.484718750002,"end":10316.039093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10317.102218750002,"end":10317.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10319.32971875,"end":10320.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10320.949718750002,"end":10322.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10322.839718750001,"end":10325.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10325.97846875,"end":10330.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10331.226593750001,"end":10332.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10334.297843750002,"end":10337.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10337.06534375,"end":10339.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10339.49534375,"end":10347.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10347.44346875,"end":10348.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10348.86096875,"end":10355.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10355.72909375,"end":10376.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":10376.62034375,"end":10377.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10380.24846875,"end":10385.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10397.32596875,"end":10398.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10399.249718750001,"end":10400.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10401.46034375,"end":10407.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10408.26096875,"end":10410.758468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10411.534718750001,"end":10412.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10412.90159375,"end":10413.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10414.082843750002,"end":10414.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10415.652218750001,"end":10416.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10417.339718750001,"end":10418.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10418.84159375,"end":10419.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10420.57971875,"end":10421.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10421.79471875,"end":10422.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10423.094093750002,"end":10427.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10427.76846875,"end":10428.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10428.696593750003,"end":10432.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10433.13471875,"end":10446.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10447.259093750003,"end":10454.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10454.65034375,"end":10456.574093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10456.894718750002,"end":10459.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10460.18534375,"end":10461.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10461.737843750001,"end":10463.273468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10463.762843750003,"end":10465.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10466.36159375,"end":10467.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10468.015343750001,"end":10470.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10470.69846875,"end":10478.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10479.051593750002,"end":10482.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10483.35471875,"end":10485.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10485.71721875,"end":10486.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10486.628468750001,"end":10491.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10491.30284375,"end":10497.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10498.390343750001,"end":10499.571593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10500.145343750002,"end":10508.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10508.954093750002,"end":10513.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10514.269718750002,"end":10525.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10526.58846875,"end":10527.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10528.27596875,"end":10529.102843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10529.74409375,"end":10530.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10531.414718750002,"end":10533.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10534.23284375,"end":10545.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10546.180343750002,"end":10547.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10548.070343750001,"end":10549.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10551.175343750001,"end":10554.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10555.05659375,"end":10556.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10556.457218750002,"end":10559.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10559.207843750002,"end":10563.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10563.696593750003,"end":10566.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10566.379718750002,"end":10575.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10575.762218750002,"end":10580.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10580.68971875,"end":10581.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10595.792843750001,"end":10595.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10595.97846875,"end":10595.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":10596.29909375,"end":10600.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10601.15909375,"end":10608.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10609.96784375,"end":10623.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":10613.39346875,"end":10613.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10625.172218750002,"end":10629.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10630.707218750002,"end":10656.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10657.57221875,"end":10672.523468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10690.95096875,"end":10694.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10695.000968750002,"end":10696.688468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10697.49846875,"end":10701.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10702.544093750003,"end":10703.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10704.40034375,"end":10704.957218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10705.66596875,"end":10706.492843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10707.10034375,"end":10708.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10709.04096875,"end":10710.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10711.032218750002,"end":10713.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10713.394718750002,"end":10714.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10714.930343750002,"end":10715.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10715.723468750002,"end":10718.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10718.575343750003,"end":10719.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10720.144718750002,"end":10721.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10722.28784375,"end":10725.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10726.000343750002,"end":10727.367218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10727.586593750002,"end":10730.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10730.60721875,"end":10731.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10732.41284375,"end":10734.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10734.960968750001,"end":10735.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10736.20971875,"end":10737.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10737.880343750003,"end":10739.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10740.31034375,"end":10743.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10744.12409375,"end":10746.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10746.53721875,"end":10747.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10748.49471875,"end":10757.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10758.09659375,"end":10761.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10761.758468750002,"end":10769.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10770.297218750002,"end":10774.988468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10775.39346875,"end":10777.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10777.77284375,"end":10782.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10782.91971875,"end":10783.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10784.67471875,"end":10788.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10789.24784375,"end":10790.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10790.766593750002,"end":10792.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10792.605968750002,"end":10796.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10796.68971875,"end":10806.004718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10806.949718750002,"end":10808.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10809.379718750002,"end":10819.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10820.280968750001,"end":10826.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10826.727218750002,"end":10827.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10828.347218750001,"end":10831.789718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10832.17784375,"end":10835.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10835.738468750002,"end":10838.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10838.269718750002,"end":10839.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10839.82221875,"end":10846.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10847.80409375,"end":10848.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10849.407218750002,"end":10855.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10856.24159375,"end":10857.355343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10857.65909375,"end":10867.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10867.21034375,"end":10871.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":10872.120968750001,"end":10876.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":10882.634093750003,"end":10888.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10901.145968750003,"end":10906.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10907.27159375,"end":10908.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10908.63846875,"end":10910.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10911.000968750002,"end":10913.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10913.54909375,"end":10915.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10916.367218750001,"end":10919.438468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10919.97846875,"end":10925.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10925.749718750001,"end":10927.875968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10928.26409375,"end":10930.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10930.862843750001,"end":10932.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10932.53346875,"end":10934.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10935.081593750001,"end":10937.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10937.86596875,"end":10944.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10944.81846875,"end":10950.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10950.690968750001,"end":10958.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10959.398468750001,"end":10959.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10960.394093750001,"end":10962.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10962.60471875,"end":10964.410343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10964.849093750003,"end":10968.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10968.66284375,"end":10969.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10970.23221875,"end":10974.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10975.530968750001,"end":10977.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10977.910343750002,"end":10985.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10985.79096875,"end":10986.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10986.73596875,"end":10987.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10987.782218750002,"end":10992.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10992.54096875,"end":10993.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10994.02596875,"end":10995.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":10995.308468750001,"end":11000.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11000.894093750001,"end":11001.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11001.653468750003,"end":11003.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11004.30284375,"end":11005.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11006.42909375,"end":11007.492218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11008.62284375,"end":11009.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11010.242843750002,"end":11011.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11012.16659375,"end":11012.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11013.38159375,"end":11015.457218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11015.895968750003,"end":11019.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11021.093468750001,"end":11024.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11025.71721875,"end":11027.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11027.759093750003,"end":11031.015968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11031.52221875,"end":11033.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11033.614718750003,"end":11051.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11052.44721875,"end":11053.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11054.067218750002,"end":11055.180968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11055.704093750002,"end":11056.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11057.374718750001,"end":11058.589718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11059.011593750001,"end":11060.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11060.14221875,"end":11060.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11061.036593750003,"end":11063.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11063.68596875,"end":11069.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11069.81159375,"end":11072.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11072.562218750001,"end":11075.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11076.29159375,"end":11078.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11078.92409375,"end":11086.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11090.51721875,"end":11096.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11104.65846875,"end":11132.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11132.417843750001,"end":11147.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11147.706593750001,"end":11158.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11158.489718750003,"end":11177.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11178.21659375,"end":11183.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11184.156593750002,"end":11191.919093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11192.172218750002,"end":11195.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11196.239093750002,"end":11201.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11201.706593750001,"end":11206.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11206.634093750003,"end":11215.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11215.797218750002,"end":11225.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11225.652218750001,"end":11230.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11230.86659375,"end":11240.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11240.805968750003,"end":11253.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":11253.242843750002,"end":11285.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11288.157218750002,"end":11294.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11294.839718750001,"end":11304.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11308.339718750001,"end":11308.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11309.605343750001,"end":11309.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":11309.622218750003,"end":11310.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":11322.278468750003,"end":11323.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":11324.62409375,"end":11325.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11334.124718750001,"end":11334.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11334.968468750001,"end":11335.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11335.62659375,"end":11336.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11337.870968750001,"end":11338.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11338.96784375,"end":11343.456593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11345.97096875,"end":11346.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11346.426593750002,"end":11346.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11358.390968750002,"end":11360.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":11359.302218750003,"end":11359.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":11359.36971875,"end":11359.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":11359.656593750002,"end":11359.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11361.867218750001,"end":11371.249718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11372.75159375,"end":11373.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11373.730343750001,"end":11374.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_65","start":11378.742218750001,"end":11386.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_65","start":11386.53846875,"end":11389.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_65","start":11390.41971875,"end":11399.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_65","start":11399.852843750003,"end":11401.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11401.962218750003,"end":11402.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_65","start":11402.29971875,"end":11402.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11402.384093750003,"end":11408.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11408.88096875,"end":11410.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11410.770968750003,"end":11415.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11415.73221875,"end":11418.195968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11418.48284375,"end":11425.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11425.890968750002,"end":11429.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11429.82284375,"end":11435.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11436.10034375,"end":11437.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11437.534718750001,"end":11438.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11439.036593750003,"end":11448.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11448.891593750002,"end":11455.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11455.995968750001,"end":11457.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11457.76784375,"end":11463.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11464.19721875,"end":11466.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11467.15034375,"end":11470.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11470.559093750002,"end":11477.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11478.000968750002,"end":11481.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11482.067843750003,"end":11486.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11487.56909375,"end":11492.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_64","start":11492.73284375,"end":11493.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11496.074093750001,"end":11502.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11522.027843750002,"end":11531.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11531.91659375,"end":11539.797218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11540.219093750002,"end":11579.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11579.976593750001,"end":11596.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11596.46346875,"end":11607.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11607.719093750002,"end":11619.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11620.172843750002,"end":11653.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11654.47971875,"end":11670.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11670.645968750003,"end":11686.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_44","start":11686.20471875,"end":11700.649718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":11697.747218750003,"end":11698.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":11698.03409375,"end":11700.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11703.062843750002,"end":11708.817218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11718.503468750001,"end":11719.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11720.359718750002,"end":11725.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11725.45596875,"end":11730.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11730.585968750001,"end":11732.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11733.31971875,"end":11733.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11733.927218750003,"end":11737.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11737.89284375,"end":11738.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11738.449718750002,"end":11739.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11739.64784375,"end":11740.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11740.710968750001,"end":11745.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11745.28409375,"end":11747.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11747.96721875,"end":11751.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11751.81471875,"end":11752.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11752.70909375,"end":11755.375343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11756.30346875,"end":11756.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11757.282218750002,"end":11762.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11762.31096875,"end":11765.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11765.36534375,"end":11767.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11768.36909375,"end":11768.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11769.347843750002,"end":11770.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11771.355968750002,"end":11775.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11775.92909375,"end":11777.937218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11778.409718750001,"end":11783.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11784.164093750001,"end":11785.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11786.239718750003,"end":11787.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11787.589718750001,"end":11789.648468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11789.817218750002,"end":11792.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11792.95596875,"end":11793.462218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11794.00221875,"end":11796.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11797.10721875,"end":11799.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11800.296593750001,"end":11800.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11801.39346875,"end":11801.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11802.355343750001,"end":11805.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11805.98346875,"end":11806.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11807.29971875,"end":11808.632843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11809.375343750002,"end":11809.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11810.539718750002,"end":11813.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11813.712218750003,"end":11814.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11815.21409375,"end":11816.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11817.40784375,"end":11818.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11818.808468750001,"end":11819.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11819.820968750002,"end":11820.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11821.559093750002,"end":11822.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11822.63909375,"end":11825.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11826.149093750002,"end":11826.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11827.06034375,"end":11827.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11828.02221875,"end":11829.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11829.60846875,"end":11832.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11832.359093750001,"end":11833.894718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11834.29971875,"end":11837.117843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11837.337218750003,"end":11838.282218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11838.737843750001,"end":11840.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11840.56034375,"end":11844.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11844.42471875,"end":11845.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11845.52159375,"end":11846.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11846.48346875,"end":11847.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11847.462218750003,"end":11848.407218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11848.54221875,"end":11854.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11855.34284375,"end":11861.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11861.97471875,"end":11864.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11865.552218750003,"end":11869.754093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11870.378468750001,"end":11873.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11873.88846875,"end":11875.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11876.352218750002,"end":11880.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11880.840968750003,"end":11882.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11883.203468750002,"end":11885.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11885.86971875,"end":11887.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11887.253468750001,"end":11887.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11888.384093750003,"end":11889.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11889.852218750002,"end":11890.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11890.864718750003,"end":11892.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11892.704093750002,"end":11893.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11894.070968750002,"end":11896.602218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11897.024093750002,"end":11897.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11898.40784375,"end":11899.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11900.09534375,"end":11901.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_60","start":11901.816593750002,"end":11902.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":11905.42784375,"end":11910.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_50","start":11915.940968750001,"end":12098.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":12098.66346875,"end":12098.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12100.097843750002,"end":12105.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":12102.055343750002,"end":12102.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12116.48346875,"end":12118.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12118.812218750001,"end":12148.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12149.035343750002,"end":12166.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12166.804718750001,"end":12178.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12178.515968750002,"end":12180.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12181.519718750002,"end":12191.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12192.488468750002,"end":12193.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12193.31534375,"end":12207.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12208.40159375,"end":12215.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12216.46784375,"end":12228.887843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12229.10721875,"end":12239.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12240.227843750003,"end":12240.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12240.98721875,"end":12261.844718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_49","start":12262.28346875,"end":12293.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12295.594718750002,"end":12302.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12318.426593750002,"end":12319.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12320.738468750002,"end":12321.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12321.91971875,"end":12323.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12324.82221875,"end":12327.117218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12327.84284375,"end":12331.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12332.16284375,"end":12334.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12335.01471875,"end":12337.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12337.461593750002,"end":12349.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12350.08409375,"end":12352.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12352.66596875,"end":12354.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12355.450343750003,"end":12357.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12357.340343750002,"end":12358.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12359.129093750002,"end":12360.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12361.390343750001,"end":12362.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12363.43221875,"end":12367.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12367.347218750001,"end":12368.899718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12369.692843750003,"end":12370.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12370.65471875,"end":12371.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12372.257843750001,"end":12372.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12373.40534375,"end":12374.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12375.379718750002,"end":12377.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12377.94471875,"end":12378.383468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12378.83909375,"end":12382.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12383.20971875,"end":12385.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12386.01096875,"end":12390.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12391.86659375,"end":12394.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12394.262843750003,"end":12395.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12395.140343750001,"end":12395.157218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12395.22471875,"end":12402.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12402.312218750001,"end":12407.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12407.93159375,"end":12411.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12413.348468750002,"end":12418.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12418.44471875,"end":12420.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12421.684718750003,"end":12422.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12423.01784375,"end":12424.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12424.65471875,"end":12425.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12427.253468750001,"end":12429.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12430.493468750003,"end":12431.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12432.36659375,"end":12433.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12434.56034375,"end":12435.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12435.657218750002,"end":12436.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12437.04096875,"end":12440.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12441.20909375,"end":12443.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12443.41971875,"end":12447.503468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12447.95909375,"end":12448.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12448.785968750002,"end":12451.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12451.82346875,"end":12453.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12453.76409375,"end":12455.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12455.92409375,"end":12457.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12457.442843750003,"end":12457.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12458.10096875,"end":12467.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12467.21346875,"end":12472.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12472.57971875,"end":12473.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12474.16596875,"end":12477.102218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12477.60846875,"end":12480.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12480.56159375,"end":12485.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12486.332843750002,"end":12489.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12489.40409375,"end":12489.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12489.927218750003,"end":12494.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12494.702843750001,"end":12499.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12500.355968750002,"end":12503.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12505.941593750002,"end":12515.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12517.230968750002,"end":12520.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12524.993468750003,"end":12527.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12527.659718750001,"end":12533.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12534.07221875,"end":12534.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12535.169093750003,"end":12548.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12549.27659375,"end":12550.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12550.57596875,"end":12568.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12568.750343750002,"end":12569.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12570.15096875,"end":12582.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12583.44846875,"end":12585.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12586.469093750002,"end":12594.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12594.636593750001,"end":12599.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12600.070343750001,"end":12602.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12603.25971875,"end":12608.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12608.59221875,"end":12620.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12621.315968750001,"end":12625.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12625.93971875,"end":12637.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12637.97159375,"end":12639.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12639.996593750002,"end":12642.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12643.472843750002,"end":12647.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12647.97846875,"end":12652.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12653.175968750002,"end":12660.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12661.15784375,"end":12666.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12667.45221875,"end":12673.695968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12673.83096875,"end":12683.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12684.05721875,"end":12686.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12687.347843750002,"end":12689.828468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_46","start":12690.081593750001,"end":12710.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12712.20471875,"end":12725.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12726.04221875,"end":12726.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":12726.19409375,"end":12726.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":12726.261593750001,"end":12726.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21580.96221875,"end":21591.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21603.912218750003,"end":21605.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21606.05534375,"end":21627.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21627.351593749998,"end":21628.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21629.207843750002,"end":21634.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21635.130968750003,"end":21638.944718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21639.41721875,"end":21642.319718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21642.420968750004,"end":21654.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21654.58784375,"end":21657.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21657.55784375,"end":21663.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21663.75096875,"end":21680.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21681.28409375,"end":21731.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21731.60534375,"end":21738.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21738.42284375,"end":21744.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21745.18971875,"end":21747.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21748.007843749998,"end":21759.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_45","start":21759.51659375,"end":21786.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21788.693468750003,"end":21794.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21796.89471875,"end":21797.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21797.670968750004,"end":21798.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21798.497843750003,"end":21800.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21800.219093749998,"end":21802.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21805.889093750004,"end":21806.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21808.38659375,"end":21810.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21811.64346875,"end":21813.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21813.63471875,"end":21814.562843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21815.45721875,"end":21817.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21818.41034375,"end":21826.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21827.47221875,"end":21828.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21829.075343750003,"end":21829.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21830.459093750003,"end":21831.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21833.24346875,"end":21834.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21834.96471875,"end":21835.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21836.280968749998,"end":21839.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21839.402843750002,"end":21840.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21841.326593750004,"end":21843.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21843.840968750003,"end":21844.819718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21845.747843750003,"end":21846.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21846.827843749998,"end":21847.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21848.11034375,"end":21849.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21849.69659375,"end":21851.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21851.451593750004,"end":21852.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21853.49346875,"end":21854.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21855.11346875,"end":21858.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21859.467218750004,"end":21860.327843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21860.969093749998,"end":21862.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21863.179718749998,"end":21864.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21865.00221875,"end":21866.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21866.639093750004,"end":21867.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21868.19159375,"end":21870.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21871.178468750004,"end":21872.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21874.047218749998,"end":21874.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21875.53221875,"end":21877.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21878.18159375,"end":21879.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21880.72971875,"end":21881.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21881.97846875,"end":21882.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21883.14284375,"end":21883.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21884.32409375,"end":21884.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21885.285968750002,"end":21886.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21886.703468749998,"end":21890.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21890.922218749998,"end":21892.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21893.08221875,"end":21895.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21896.55846875,"end":21898.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21898.802843750003,"end":21900.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21901.536593750003,"end":21904.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21905.62034375,"end":21908.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21909.40034375,"end":21916.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21916.80846875,"end":21923.507843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21923.86221875,"end":21925.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21925.482218750003,"end":21928.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21929.802218750003,"end":21930.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21931.11846875,"end":21932.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21933.210968749998,"end":21934.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21935.23596875,"end":21936.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21936.80534375,"end":21938.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21939.015968749998,"end":21939.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21941.817218750002,"end":21956.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21956.920343750004,"end":21958.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21959.468468749998,"end":21965.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21965.81346875,"end":21967.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21967.585343749997,"end":21971.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21971.71971875,"end":21978.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21978.48659375,"end":21982.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_56","start":21982.58721875,"end":21991.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21993.539093749998,"end":21997.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":21997.926593750002,"end":22000.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22001.402843750002,"end":22002.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22002.364718750003,"end":22004.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22009.06409375,"end":22010.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":22013.80596875,"end":22184.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":22185.239093750002,"end":22188.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22188.14159375,"end":22188.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":22188.411593750003,"end":22188.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22188.47909375,"end":22188.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22190.99346875,"end":22196.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22207.66596875,"end":22212.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22212.42471875,"end":22225.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22225.40159375,"end":22237.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22237.41659375,"end":22238.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22238.69909375,"end":22246.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22247.507843749998,"end":22248.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22248.72284375,"end":22253.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22253.97096875,"end":22254.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22254.983468750004,"end":22262.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22262.93159375,"end":22271.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22272.246593750002,"end":22282.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22283.012843750003,"end":22288.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22288.76721875,"end":22292.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22292.631593750004,"end":22296.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22297.30596875,"end":22319.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22320.44159375,"end":22333.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22333.958468750003,"end":22341.670343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22342.530968749998,"end":22346.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22347.154718750004,"end":22347.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22347.998468750004,"end":22350.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22351.72784375,"end":22353.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22353.887843750003,"end":22357.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22357.482218750003,"end":22360.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22361.32971875,"end":22366.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22366.72971875,"end":22367.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22367.927843750003,"end":22368.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22368.60284375,"end":22371.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22371.842843750004,"end":22374.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22374.64409375,"end":22376.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22376.33159375,"end":22376.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_58","start":22377.209093750003,"end":22388.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22390.725968749997,"end":22396.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22408.07346875,"end":22412.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22412.69721875,"end":22425.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22425.809093750002,"end":22428.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22428.96471875,"end":22441.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22441.772843749997,"end":22444.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22444.202843749998,"end":22448.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22448.35409375,"end":22453.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22453.382843749998,"end":22458.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22458.66471875,"end":22469.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22470.224093750003,"end":22474.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22474.324718750002,"end":22483.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22484.31471875,"end":22488.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22488.145343750002,"end":22508.429093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22508.513468750003,"end":22512.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22513.035968750002,"end":22513.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22513.980968750002,"end":22515.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22515.567218750002,"end":22516.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22516.950968750003,"end":22518.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22518.70596875,"end":22519.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22519.97159375,"end":22522.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22522.772843749997,"end":22527.835343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22528.20659375,"end":22529.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22529.387843750003,"end":22532.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22533.03284375,"end":22543.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22543.427843750003,"end":22552.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22552.844093749998,"end":22562.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22563.00284375,"end":22564.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22564.80846875,"end":22566.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22567.01909375,"end":22569.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22569.95534375,"end":22569.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22570.309718750003,"end":22576.536593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22576.671593749998,"end":22580.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22581.24471875,"end":22590.239093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22590.255968750003,"end":22592.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":22592.669093750003,"end":22592.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22596.44909375,"end":22599.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22600.12784375,"end":22604.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22614.16784375,"end":22620.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22620.24284375,"end":22642.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22642.905968749998,"end":22644.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22644.94784375,"end":22647.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22647.765968749998,"end":22655.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22656.00096875,"end":22666.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22666.952843749998,"end":22681.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22681.161593750003,"end":22703.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22703.50409375,"end":22707.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22708.515968749998,"end":22735.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22736.106593750003,"end":22738.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22738.80659375,"end":22740.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22740.73034375,"end":22766.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22766.88659375,"end":22768.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22769.06346875,"end":22770.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22770.75096875,"end":22772.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22772.67471875,"end":22775.999093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22776.404093750003,"end":22778.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22778.496593750002,"end":22779.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22779.239093750002,"end":22783.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22784.115968750004,"end":22785.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22785.87096875,"end":22787.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22787.575343750003,"end":22789.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_59","start":22789.53284375,"end":22791.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22794.73034375,"end":22801.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":22809.49596875,"end":22811.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22826.944718749997,"end":22828.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22829.256593750004,"end":22830.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22831.484093749998,"end":22836.850343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22837.33971875,"end":22839.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22839.567218750002,"end":22847.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22848.527843750002,"end":22848.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22849.304093749997,"end":22852.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22853.607218750003,"end":22854.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22855.34534375,"end":22857.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22857.927218750003,"end":22862.702843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22863.715343750002,"end":22868.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22869.419093750003,"end":22870.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22870.85346875,"end":22871.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22872.35534375,"end":22874.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22875.19034375,"end":22877.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22878.26159375,"end":22879.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22880.303468750004,"end":22880.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22881.231593750003,"end":22883.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22884.083468750003,"end":22886.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22886.918468750002,"end":22893.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22893.887843750003,"end":22897.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22897.83659375,"end":22903.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22904.147843749997,"end":22906.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22907.590343750002,"end":22908.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22908.82221875,"end":22909.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22910.08784375,"end":22910.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22911.505343750003,"end":22921.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22922.288468749997,"end":22922.94659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22923.30096875,"end":22923.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22924.53284375,"end":22925.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22927.469093749998,"end":22936.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22936.68284375,"end":22940.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22941.677843750003,"end":22942.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22943.11221875,"end":22956.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22957.96221875,"end":22966.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22967.44596875,"end":22968.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22969.184093750002,"end":22970.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22971.614093750002,"end":22977.672218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22978.802843750003,"end":22981.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22982.46471875,"end":22987.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22987.69596875,"end":22989.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22989.92346875,"end":22991.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22991.965343750002,"end":22992.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":22993.09596875,"end":23007.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23008.82346875,"end":23008.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23008.840343750002,"end":23008.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23008.890968749998,"end":23009.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23009.02596875,"end":23011.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23011.827218750004,"end":23012.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23012.451593750004,"end":23016.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23028.53346875,"end":23035.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23036.22846875,"end":23041.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23042.45534375,"end":23050.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23050.90971875,"end":23058.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23059.094093749998,"end":23062.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23063.295968750004,"end":23066.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23067.04221875,"end":23069.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23070.231593750003,"end":23076.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23077.116593749997,"end":23086.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23086.279718750004,"end":23091.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23091.89909375,"end":23094.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23094.700343750003,"end":23096.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23096.742218749998,"end":23099.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23100.06659375,"end":23102.749718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23104.16721875,"end":23108.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23109.398468749998,"end":23118.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23119.05096875,"end":23137.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23137.748468750004,"end":23143.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23144.312843749998,"end":23148.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23148.97034375,"end":23157.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23158.16721875,"end":23160.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23161.22159375,"end":23164.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23164.242218749998,"end":23175.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23176.61159375,"end":23179.817843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23180.49284375,"end":23185.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23185.234718749998,"end":23187.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23187.56346875,"end":23188.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23189.132843749998,"end":23193.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23194.499093750004,"end":23197.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23197.553468750004,"end":23200.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23200.725968749997,"end":23204.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23204.77596875,"end":23207.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":23208.04971875,"end":23211.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23213.770343750002,"end":23220.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23233.44659375,"end":23234.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23234.42534375,"end":23235.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23235.944093750004,"end":23241.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23242.20471875,"end":23244.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23244.95534375,"end":23249.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23250.203468749998,"end":23253.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23254.86096875,"end":23262.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23262.859718749998,"end":23264.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23265.070343749998,"end":23271.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23273.11971875,"end":23277.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23278.418468750002,"end":23280.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23280.91596875,"end":23282.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23282.83971875,"end":23286.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23286.72096875,"end":23287.294718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23287.935968750004,"end":23291.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23292.30659375,"end":23304.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23304.55784375,"end":23305.772843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23306.12721875,"end":23315.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23315.72909375,"end":23316.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23317.61909375,"end":23327.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23327.64284375,"end":23336.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23336.755343750003,"end":23340.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23340.974093750003,"end":23361.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23361.645968750003,"end":23373.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23374.302218750003,"end":23392.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23392.864718750003,"end":23405.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23406.31409375,"end":23412.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23412.64221875,"end":23413.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23413.755968750003,"end":23414.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":23414.717843750004,"end":23416.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23418.43034375,"end":23424.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23435.64284375,"end":23436.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23436.99284375,"end":23441.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23442.29159375,"end":23444.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23444.772218750004,"end":23448.062843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23449.007843749998,"end":23450.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23451.404093750003,"end":23463.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23464.02659375,"end":23466.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23467.317218750002,"end":23469.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23469.966593750003,"end":23480.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23481.677843750003,"end":23492.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23493.67596875,"end":23500.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23501.26971875,"end":23505.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23505.99471875,"end":23510.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23510.39909375,"end":23515.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23515.242218749998,"end":23541.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23542.39409375,"end":23548.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23548.992218749998,"end":23552.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23552.991593750005,"end":23556.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23557.007843749998,"end":23559.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23560.60221875,"end":23563.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23563.25159375,"end":23565.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23565.512843750003,"end":23571.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23571.773468749998,"end":23587.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":23587.484093749998,"end":23598.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23600.781593749998,"end":23608.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23624.64284375,"end":23630.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23630.97096875,"end":23644.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23644.403468750003,"end":23653.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23654.309093750002,"end":23657.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23657.76846875,"end":23665.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23666.08784375,"end":23671.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23671.70721875,"end":23675.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23676.31409375,"end":23682.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23682.287843750004,"end":23683.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23683.90784375,"end":23685.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23686.185968750004,"end":23688.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23688.56534375,"end":23697.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23697.660968750002,"end":23710.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23710.671593749998,"end":23712.156593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23712.69659375,"end":23717.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23718.653468750003,"end":23724.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23724.998468750004,"end":23725.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23727.14159375,"end":23734.178468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23734.33034375,"end":23743.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23743.39221875,"end":23744.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23745.63659375,"end":23756.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23757.162218750003,"end":23770.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23770.746593750002,"end":23788.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23789.15721875,"end":23793.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23793.544718750003,"end":23809.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23816.967218750004,"end":23817.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":23819.279093750003,"end":23819.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23822.046593749998,"end":23828.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23828.475968750005,"end":23832.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":23832.93096875,"end":23841.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23849.83971875,"end":23857.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":23852.87721875,"end":23853.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23858.226593749998,"end":23859.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23859.96471875,"end":23861.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23861.21346875,"end":23861.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23861.39909375,"end":23862.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23862.867218749998,"end":23863.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23863.94721875,"end":23864.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23865.600968750005,"end":23867.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23868.14909375,"end":23871.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23872.452218750004,"end":23873.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23873.95409375,"end":23876.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23877.54846875,"end":23879.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23880.585968749998,"end":23882.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23883.33659375,"end":23886.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23887.48784375,"end":23888.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23888.43284375,"end":23890.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23890.96409375,"end":23891.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23892.34784375,"end":23896.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23896.718468749998,"end":23900.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23900.920343750004,"end":23903.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23904.04221875,"end":23904.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23904.97034375,"end":23907.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23907.754718750002,"end":23909.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23909.61096875,"end":23910.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23911.82159375,"end":23913.154718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23913.61034375,"end":23915.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23916.05721875,"end":23917.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23918.28471875,"end":23921.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23922.030968749998,"end":23926.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23926.70534375,"end":23927.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23928.62909375,"end":23929.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23929.506593750004,"end":23931.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23931.615968750004,"end":23932.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23933.590343750002,"end":23935.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23936.037218750003,"end":23938.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23939.007218750005,"end":23940.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23941.16721875,"end":23942.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23943.428468750004,"end":23944.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23944.64346875,"end":23945.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23946.11159375,"end":23947.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23947.512218750002,"end":23948.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23949.57096875,"end":23951.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23951.865968750004,"end":23954.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23954.36346875,"end":23955.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23956.101593749998,"end":23956.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23957.16471875,"end":23958.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23958.818468750003,"end":23960.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23961.28221875,"end":23962.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23963.273468749998,"end":23965.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23966.14221875,"end":23966.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23967.812843749998,"end":23968.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23969.382218750005,"end":23970.225968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23970.428468750004,"end":23971.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23971.457843750002,"end":23973.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23974.15784375,"end":23975.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23975.592218750004,"end":23978.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23979.10221875,"end":23983.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23984.350343750004,"end":23986.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23986.81409375,"end":23989.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23989.935968750004,"end":23993.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23994.340343750002,"end":23997.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23997.630968750003,"end":23998.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23999.132843749998,"end":24001.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24001.832843750002,"end":24002.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24003.840968750003,"end":24004.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24004.97159375,"end":24005.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24006.203468749998,"end":24007.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24008.295968750004,"end":24010.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24010.405343750004,"end":24013.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24013.881593750004,"end":24015.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24015.83909375,"end":24016.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24017.340968750003,"end":24018.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24019.028468750003,"end":24019.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24020.091593750003,"end":24020.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24020.80034375,"end":24021.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24022.319093750004,"end":24023.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24024.209093750003,"end":24025.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24025.64346875,"end":24028.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24029.254718750002,"end":24032.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":24032.545343750004,"end":24034.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24036.19034375,"end":24043.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24054.398468749998,"end":24054.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24055.090343750002,"end":24055.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24056.44034375,"end":24057.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24058.31346875,"end":24060.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24060.94596875,"end":24061.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24062.22846875,"end":24062.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24063.561593750004,"end":24065.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24065.991593750005,"end":24068.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24068.944718750005,"end":24070.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24070.716593750003,"end":24071.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24072.623468750004,"end":24074.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24075.22221875,"end":24076.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24077.61846875,"end":24079.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24079.896593750003,"end":24084.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24085.077218750004,"end":24086.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24087.94596875,"end":24089.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24089.819093750004,"end":24091.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24092.755343750003,"end":24095.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24096.38346875,"end":24097.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24099.404093750003,"end":24100.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24101.34471875,"end":24103.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24103.80846875,"end":24107.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24108.55034375,"end":24109.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24109.47846875,"end":24110.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24110.777843750002,"end":24112.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24112.718468749998,"end":24114.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24115.334093750003,"end":24117.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24118.287218750003,"end":24124.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24125.72909375,"end":24127.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24128.14221875,"end":24129.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24129.82971875,"end":24130.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24131.264093750004,"end":24132.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24133.72784375,"end":24134.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24134.436593750004,"end":24136.124093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24136.562843749998,"end":24139.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24140.140343749998,"end":24141.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24142.131593750004,"end":24146.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24146.73846875,"end":24150.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24151.176593750002,"end":24154.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24154.669718750003,"end":24162.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24162.55034375,"end":24163.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24164.355968750002,"end":24167.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24167.444093750004,"end":24168.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24168.794093750003,"end":24172.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24172.67534375,"end":24175.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24175.49346875,"end":24177.231593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24178.15971875,"end":24178.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24178.834718750004,"end":24181.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24182.631593750004,"end":24184.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24185.702843749998,"end":24187.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24188.419718750003,"end":24189.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24190.343468749998,"end":24190.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24191.288468750005,"end":24193.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24193.785968750002,"end":24194.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24195.01784375,"end":24195.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24196.06409375,"end":24197.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24198.527843750002,"end":24204.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24205.514093750004,"end":24207.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24207.944093750004,"end":24210.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24211.015343749998,"end":24211.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24212.061593750004,"end":24212.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24213.951593750004,"end":24217.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24218.10284375,"end":24222.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24223.047218749998,"end":24228.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24228.632843749998,"end":24229.763468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24230.067218750002,"end":24230.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24231.029093750003,"end":24232.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24232.68284375,"end":24234.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24234.927218750003,"end":24238.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24240.17534375,"end":24246.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24255.059093750002,"end":24255.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24255.835343750005,"end":24256.476593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24258.60284375,"end":24261.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24261.89346875,"end":24263.007218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24264.070343749998,"end":24265.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24266.162843750004,"end":24270.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24272.592218750004,"end":24273.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24274.094093749998,"end":24275.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24276.203468749998,"end":24277.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24278.498468750004,"end":24281.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24282.312218749998,"end":24283.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24284.303468750004,"end":24285.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24286.294718750003,"end":24287.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24287.779718750004,"end":24288.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24289.247843750003,"end":24292.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24292.960343750005,"end":24293.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24294.25971875,"end":24295.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24296.335343750005,"end":24299.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24300.46971875,"end":24304.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24305.53221875,"end":24306.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24307.185968750004,"end":24309.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24309.56534375,"end":24311.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24311.725343750004,"end":24315.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24315.522218750004,"end":24318.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24319.13346875,"end":24320.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24320.55096875,"end":24322.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24323.959718750004,"end":24325.444718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24325.630343750003,"end":24327.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24327.621593750002,"end":24328.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24329.140343749998,"end":24331.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24331.637843750003,"end":24332.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24333.29159375,"end":24334.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24334.945343749998,"end":24336.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24336.56534375,"end":24338.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24338.23596875,"end":24339.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24339.29909375,"end":24340.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24340.699718750002,"end":24342.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24343.75409375,"end":24344.429093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24344.732843750004,"end":24345.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24346.28534375,"end":24347.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24347.95596875,"end":24348.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24349.592843750004,"end":24351.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24351.584093750003,"end":24353.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24353.895968750003,"end":24354.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24354.672218749998,"end":24357.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24358.215968750003,"end":24360.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24360.865343750003,"end":24363.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24363.54846875,"end":24364.864718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24365.100968750005,"end":24365.927843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24366.29909375,"end":24368.357843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24369.15096875,"end":24370.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24371.05784375,"end":24371.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24372.18846875,"end":24373.538468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24373.943468750003,"end":24374.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24375.14159375,"end":24376.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24376.50846875,"end":24378.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24378.280343750004,"end":24379.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24379.934093750002,"end":24380.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24381.250343749998,"end":24381.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24382.195343749998,"end":24382.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24383.241593750005,"end":24383.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24384.11909375,"end":24385.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24386.46471875,"end":24387.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24387.83159375,"end":24390.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24391.037843750004,"end":24391.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24391.999718749998,"end":24392.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24393.19784375,"end":24393.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24394.04159375,"end":24396.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24396.26909375,"end":24397.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24397.82159375,"end":24398.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24399.255968750003,"end":24400.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24400.58909375,"end":24401.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24401.905343750004,"end":24402.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24402.91784375,"end":24403.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24403.84596875,"end":24405.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24406.208468750003,"end":24407.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24407.693468750003,"end":24409.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24409.53284375,"end":24410.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24410.69721875,"end":24411.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24411.827843749998,"end":24413.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":24414.156593749998,"end":24416.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24416.09721875,"end":24416.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24419.202218750004,"end":24422.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24423.89346875,"end":24431.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24433.731593750003,"end":24437.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24448.311593750004,"end":24449.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24449.61096875,"end":24466.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24467.44784375,"end":24470.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24470.670968750004,"end":24473.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24473.77596875,"end":24476.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24476.64471875,"end":24479.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24479.817218750002,"end":24481.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24481.960343750005,"end":24483.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24484.08659375,"end":24487.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24487.967843750004,"end":24490.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24491.19096875,"end":24494.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24495.105968750002,"end":24496.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24496.506593750004,"end":24498.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24498.43034375,"end":24501.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24502.497218750003,"end":24503.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24503.42534375,"end":24507.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24508.217843750004,"end":24511.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24511.44096875,"end":24515.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24516.132218750005,"end":24517.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24517.887218750002,"end":24520.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24521.498468750004,"end":24522.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24522.561593750004,"end":24526.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24527.185343750003,"end":24527.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24528.40034375,"end":24530.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24531.65721875,"end":24532.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24533.27721875,"end":24535.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24535.58909375,"end":24537.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24538.795343750004,"end":24542.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24542.507843749998,"end":24543.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24543.82409375,"end":24546.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24546.726593749998,"end":24549.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24549.983468750004,"end":24550.607843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24550.97909375,"end":24552.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24552.56534375,"end":24555.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24556.88534375,"end":24557.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24558.707843750002,"end":24561.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24561.74534375,"end":24566.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24567.34784375,"end":24572.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24572.79846875,"end":24573.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24573.74346875,"end":24579.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24579.919718750003,"end":24582.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24582.889718750004,"end":24584.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24584.42534375,"end":24586.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24587.648468749998,"end":24589.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24590.584718750004,"end":24592.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24592.76159375,"end":24595.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24595.68096875,"end":24597.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24598.02659375,"end":24600.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24600.827843749998,"end":24601.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24602.397218750004,"end":24604.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24604.725968750005,"end":24611.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24612.623468750004,"end":24618.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24618.546593749998,"end":24622.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24623.052218750003,"end":24623.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24624.317843750003,"end":24626.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24627.270968750003,"end":24629.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24629.835968749998,"end":24629.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_61","start":24629.85284375,"end":24629.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24631.709093750003,"end":24639.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24660.58221875,"end":24661.577843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24663.248468750004,"end":24669.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24669.12096875,"end":24669.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24669.94784375,"end":24674.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24674.453468749998,"end":24680.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24680.730968750002,"end":24685.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24685.99596875,"end":24690.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24690.670343750004,"end":24692.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24692.83034375,"end":24697.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24698.43284375,"end":24702.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24703.17471875,"end":24726.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24726.951593750004,"end":24727.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24728.014718750004,"end":24729.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24729.584093750003,"end":24734.764718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24734.91659375,"end":24737.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24737.734718749998,"end":24746.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24747.33659375,"end":24754.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24754.609718749998,"end":24759.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24760.161593750003,"end":24765.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24765.325343750003,"end":24772.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24773.442218750002,"end":24788.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24788.460968749998,"end":24795.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24795.902843750002,"end":24802.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24802.50096875,"end":24838.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24839.069093750004,"end":24840.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_67","start":24840.840968750003,"end":24843.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24843.96284375,"end":24844.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24844.48596875,"end":24846.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":24847.33784375,"end":24852.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24869.25846875,"end":24870.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24870.94596875,"end":24893.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24893.11971875,"end":24894.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24895.31346875,"end":24917.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24917.520968750003,"end":24922.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24923.39346875,"end":24930.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24930.953468749998,"end":24943.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24943.74471875,"end":24946.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24946.78221875,"end":24957.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24958.155968749998,"end":24976.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24976.802843750003,"end":24983.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24983.654093750003,"end":24989.999093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24990.285968750002,"end":24991.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":24991.93971875,"end":25016.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25016.965343750002,"end":25018.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25019.46284375,"end":25028.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25028.52471875,"end":25030.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25030.41471875,"end":25033.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25033.536593750003,"end":25039.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25040.219093749998,"end":25043.695343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25044.13409375,"end":25051.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":25051.62659375,"end":25054.107218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":25056.435968750004,"end":25065.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25069.750343749998,"end":25070.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25072.61909375,"end":25093.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25093.93221875,"end":25120.442843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25120.898468749998,"end":25127.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25128.18846875,"end":25146.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25147.324718750002,"end":25156.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25157.63534375,"end":25160.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25161.567218750002,"end":25166.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25166.93346875,"end":25169.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25170.004718750002,"end":25177.598468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25177.88534375,"end":25182.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25183.28534375,"end":25188.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25188.55034375,"end":25197.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25198.270343750002,"end":25201.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25202.067218750002,"end":25206.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25206.842843750004,"end":25230.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":25213.52534375,"end":25213.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25231.176593750002,"end":25239.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25239.17534375,"end":25240.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_55","start":25240.93034375,"end":25243.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":25244.54159375,"end":25249.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":25846.05096875,"end":25849.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25868.91659375,"end":25873.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":25869.45659375,"end":25869.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":25869.810968750004,"end":25869.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":25870.047218749998,"end":25870.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25874.114093750002,"end":25879.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25880.18909375,"end":25882.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25883.14221875,"end":25884.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25884.593468749998,"end":25887.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25888.23846875,"end":25889.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25890.31409375,"end":25892.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25892.74409375,"end":25894.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25894.887218750002,"end":25898.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25898.88659375,"end":25902.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25903.39221875,"end":25906.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25906.733468750004,"end":25912.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25913.449718750002,"end":25937.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25937.530343750004,"end":25945.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25946.355968750002,"end":25947.132218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25947.36846875,"end":25948.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25948.617218749998,"end":25953.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25953.69659375,"end":25955.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25956.177218750003,"end":25958.421593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25959.062843749998,"end":25960.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25960.98659375,"end":25973.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25973.96346875,"end":25975.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25975.53284375,"end":25980.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25981.35471875,"end":25982.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25982.48534375,"end":25984.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25984.780343750004,"end":25990.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25990.804718749998,"end":25994.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25994.348468750002,"end":25995.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":25996.12034375,"end":26000.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26001.537218750003,"end":26004.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26004.32159375,"end":26010.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26011.122218750003,"end":26012.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26013.61971875,"end":26014.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26014.76721875,"end":26033.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26034.645968750003,"end":26044.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_63","start":26045.226593749998,"end":26051.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26053.309718750003,"end":26054.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26054.74409375,"end":26058.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26069.138468750003,"end":26069.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26070.285968750002,"end":26080.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26081.271593750003,"end":26088.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26088.93284375,"end":26090.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26091.88596875,"end":26093.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26094.11346875,"end":26095.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26096.50971875,"end":26098.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26098.889093750004,"end":26100.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26101.403468750003,"end":26108.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26108.54159375,"end":26114.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26115.19034375,"end":26131.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26132.234093749998,"end":26134.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26134.562843749998,"end":26138.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26138.882843749998,"end":26145.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26145.76784375,"end":26147.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26147.320343749998,"end":26157.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26157.951593750004,"end":26170.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26170.692218750002,"end":26173.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26173.49346875,"end":26174.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26174.826593750004,"end":26179.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26179.72034375,"end":26184.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26184.867218749998,"end":26193.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26194.030343750004,"end":26206.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26206.787843750004,"end":26213.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26213.67284375,"end":26214.499718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26215.29284375,"end":26216.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26217.030968749998,"end":26220.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":26221.18221875,"end":26253.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26257.12596875,"end":26261.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26272.00971875,"end":26296.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26296.866593750005,"end":26301.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26301.591593750003,"end":26307.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26308.49346875,"end":26317.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26317.55534375,"end":26318.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26319.04034375,"end":26322.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26322.55034375,"end":26326.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26327.68034375,"end":26362.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26363.86034375,"end":26391.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26392.311593750004,"end":26402.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26403.12846875,"end":26424.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26424.86346875,"end":26427.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26427.968468749998,"end":26429.959718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26430.53346875,"end":26433.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_57","start":26433.36846875,"end":26445.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26446.935968750004,"end":26447.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26447.880968750003,"end":26449.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26449.568468750003,"end":26451.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26461.802843750003,"end":26478.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26478.812843749998,"end":26481.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26481.614093750002,"end":26484.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26485.022843750005,"end":26491.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26491.739093750002,"end":26494.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26494.405343750004,"end":26499.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26500.109093749998,"end":26502.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26503.82159375,"end":26547.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26547.578468749998,"end":26564.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26564.99346875,"end":26568.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26569.43159375,"end":26571.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26571.929093750005,"end":26584.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26584.703468749998,"end":26599.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26599.19909375,"end":26607.788468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":26608.15971875,"end":26646.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26658.26159375,"end":26659.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26661.130343750003,"end":26663.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":26672.08221875,"end":26689.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":26690.138468750003,"end":26720.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":26720.36159375,"end":26745.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":26745.437843749998,"end":26750.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":26750.466593750003,"end":26834.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":26837.13659375,"end":26841.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26855.37846875,"end":26864.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26865.18284375,"end":26870.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26871.105968750002,"end":26901.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26902.139093750004,"end":26914.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26915.301593750002,"end":26924.076593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26924.46471875,"end":26927.890343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26928.312218749998,"end":26934.218468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26934.606593750003,"end":26942.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26943.077843749998,"end":26944.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26945.372843750003,"end":26950.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26951.312843749998,"end":26951.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26952.747218750003,"end":26954.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26954.873468750004,"end":26976.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26976.304718749998,"end":26982.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26982.68346875,"end":26984.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26985.147218750004,"end":26989.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26989.804718749998,"end":26999.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":26999.44034375,"end":27001.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":27001.63409375,"end":27011.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":27012.450968750003,"end":27017.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":27017.90159375,"end":27021.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_69","start":27021.98534375,"end":27030.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27032.44784375,"end":27033.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27034.64159375,"end":27037.341593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27050.520968750003,"end":27165.827843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27166.215968750003,"end":27234.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27238.12034375,"end":27239.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27240.97221875,"end":27243.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27255.231593750003,"end":27365.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27365.577218750004,"end":27383.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27383.98784375,"end":27391.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27391.48034375,"end":27393.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27393.77534375,"end":27412.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_68","start":27412.928468750004,"end":27437.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27440.265968749998,"end":27444.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27456.668468750002,"end":27460.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27461.37659375,"end":27473.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27473.577218750004,"end":27476.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27477.340343750002,"end":27478.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27479.33159375,"end":27480.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27481.08659375,"end":27483.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27483.97221875,"end":27487.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27488.17409375,"end":27490.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27490.58721875,"end":27503.952218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27504.272843750005,"end":27506.804093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27506.922218749998,"end":27510.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27511.124093750004,"end":27511.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27512.575343750003,"end":27518.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27518.76846875,"end":27523.155968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27523.324718750002,"end":27523.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27524.25284375,"end":27526.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27527.020343750002,"end":27530.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27531.137843750003,"end":27531.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27532.13346875,"end":27541.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27541.583468750003,"end":27549.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27549.717218750004,"end":27556.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27557.15909375,"end":27558.593468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27559.200968750003,"end":27559.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27559.79159375,"end":27561.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27561.88409375,"end":27562.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27562.778468750003,"end":27563.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27563.875343749998,"end":27569.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27570.287843750004,"end":27574.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27574.304093750005,"end":27576.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27576.835343750005,"end":27578.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27578.53971875,"end":27580.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27581.121593750002,"end":27583.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27584.26034375,"end":27586.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27587.044718750003,"end":27588.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27588.56346875,"end":27598.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27599.279093750003,"end":27601.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":27602.249093750004,"end":27603.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27606.53534375,"end":27610.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":27620.44034375,"end":27622.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":27623.27534375,"end":27744.741593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":27744.927218750003,"end":27756.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":27756.756593750004,"end":27761.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_43","start":27761.97096875,"end":27781.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27783.554093750005,"end":27788.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27799.93971875,"end":27809.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27810.233468750004,"end":27812.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27812.51159375,"end":27821.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27821.69159375,"end":27827.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27828.070343749998,"end":27830.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27831.209093750003,"end":27835.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27835.78221875,"end":27843.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27844.388468750003,"end":27856.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27856.99409375,"end":27860.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27861.398468749998,"end":27872.147843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27872.249093750004,"end":27874.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27874.30784375,"end":27876.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27876.585968749998,"end":27888.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27888.83721875,"end":27891.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27891.840968750003,"end":27897.359093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27897.51096875,"end":27905.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27905.864093750002,"end":27907.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27908.007218750005,"end":27912.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27912.934718750003,"end":27925.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27926.232218750003,"end":27927.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27927.58221875,"end":27935.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27937.97721875,"end":27958.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27959.155343750004,"end":27965.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":27965.787218750003,"end":27973.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":27976.28346875,"end":27980.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":27992.41596875,"end":27993.546593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":27994.035968750002,"end":27998.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":27998.895968750003,"end":28001.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28002.55784375,"end":28009.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28010.37096875,"end":28012.750343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28013.42534375,"end":28016.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28017.492218749998,"end":28019.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28019.75346875,"end":28021.390343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28021.66034375,"end":28027.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28027.53284375,"end":28028.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28028.967218750004,"end":28030.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28031.00909375,"end":28031.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28032.05534375,"end":28034.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28034.434718750003,"end":28036.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28037.25284375,"end":28037.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28038.07971875,"end":28043.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28044.08721875,"end":28046.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28047.209093750003,"end":28048.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28049.36909375,"end":28052.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28052.45721875,"end":28055.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28055.49471875,"end":28060.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28060.607843750004,"end":28076.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28076.757218750005,"end":28078.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28078.950968750003,"end":28087.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28088.046593750005,"end":28090.560968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28091.01659375,"end":28095.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28095.302843750003,"end":28103.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28103.318468750003,"end":28108.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28108.785968750002,"end":28109.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28109.562218750005,"end":28110.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28110.94596875,"end":28112.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28112.88659375,"end":28114.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28114.89471875,"end":28119.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28119.788468750005,"end":28122.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28123.163468750005,"end":28125.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28126.116593750005,"end":28127.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28127.65221875,"end":28130.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28130.80784375,"end":28132.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28133.33909375,"end":28141.624718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28142.60346875,"end":28153.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28154.11221875,"end":28154.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28155.66471875,"end":28160.693468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28161.216593750003,"end":28162.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28162.73534375,"end":28164.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28164.473468750002,"end":28165.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28165.739093750002,"end":28166.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_62","start":28167.156593749998,"end":28174.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28177.61909375,"end":28182.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28188.115343750003,"end":28189.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28190.022218750004,"end":28196.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28196.94096875,"end":28201.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28201.851593749998,"end":28204.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28204.703468749998,"end":28205.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28205.969093749998,"end":28209.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28209.850343750004,"end":28211.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28212.11159375,"end":28215.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28215.58784375,"end":28220.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28220.380343750003,"end":28221.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28222.45596875,"end":28223.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28224.02534375,"end":28229.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28229.91471875,"end":28240.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28240.765343750005,"end":28246.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28246.553468750004,"end":28254.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28254.83909375,"end":28257.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28258.29846875,"end":28272.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28272.507218750005,"end":28277.046593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28277.09721875,"end":28279.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28280.01659375,"end":28284.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28285.41659375,"end":28292.234093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28293.820343749998,"end":28295.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28296.317843750003,"end":28300.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28301.059718750003,"end":28310.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28310.72909375,"end":28314.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28314.779093750003,"end":28315.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28315.67346875,"end":28323.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28323.638468750003,"end":28330.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":28330.725968750005,"end":28332.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28334.185343750003,"end":28338.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28341.762218750002,"end":28347.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28364.459093750003,"end":28365.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28366.585343750005,"end":28368.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28369.57221875,"end":28371.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28372.575968750003,"end":28374.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28375.529093750003,"end":28377.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28378.094093749998,"end":28379.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28379.41034375,"end":28380.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28380.912218750003,"end":28383.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28384.810343750003,"end":28386.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28387.240343750003,"end":28388.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28389.147218750004,"end":28390.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28391.07096875,"end":28391.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28391.762843750003,"end":28396.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28396.80846875,"end":28398.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28399.373468750004,"end":28400.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28401.600968750005,"end":28404.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28405.75221875,"end":28408.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28408.857218750003,"end":28413.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28414.864718750003,"end":28415.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28416.231593750003,"end":28419.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28419.927218750003,"end":28421.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28422.154718750004,"end":28425.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28425.614093750002,"end":28427.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28428.668468750002,"end":28429.343468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28429.950968750003,"end":28431.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28432.178468750004,"end":28433.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28434.051593750002,"end":28435.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28436.66721875,"end":28441.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28442.100968750005,"end":28443.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28443.94034375,"end":28449.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28449.86346875,"end":28455.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28456.17471875,"end":28457.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28457.895968750003,"end":28465.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28466.50221875,"end":28470.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28471.733468750004,"end":28473.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28473.89346875,"end":28476.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28478.162843750004,"end":28479.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28479.91784375,"end":28480.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28481.757218750005,"end":28482.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28483.647218750004,"end":28484.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28485.14909375,"end":28491.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28492.13534375,"end":28493.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28493.51909375,"end":28494.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28494.632843749998,"end":28498.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28499.374718750005,"end":28501.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28502.69909375,"end":28506.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28506.79971875,"end":28509.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28510.37721875,"end":28513.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28514.427218750003,"end":28516.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28517.04284375,"end":28518.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28519.13534375,"end":28521.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28521.734093750005,"end":28525.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28527.65721875,"end":28528.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28529.69909375,"end":28530.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28530.880343750003,"end":28531.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28532.29784375,"end":28532.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28533.006593750004,"end":28533.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28535.099093750003,"end":28535.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28536.077843750005,"end":28536.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28537.61346875,"end":28540.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28540.44846875,"end":28542.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28543.317218750002,"end":28544.414093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28544.56596875,"end":28546.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":28546.270343750002,"end":28549.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28558.48784375,"end":28559.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28561.23846875,"end":28563.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28575.379718750002,"end":28576.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28576.94909375,"end":28577.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28577.23596875,"end":28580.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28580.661593750003,"end":28582.703468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28582.787843750004,"end":28586.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28587.25971875,"end":28589.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28590.465968750003,"end":28593.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28594.262843750003,"end":28597.671593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28598.177843750003,"end":28599.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28600.287218750003,"end":28603.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28603.560968750004,"end":28605.265343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28606.15971875,"end":28607.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28608.13409375,"end":28610.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28611.593468750005,"end":28615.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28616.234093750005,"end":28618.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28619.355968750002,"end":28620.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28621.161593750003,"end":28622.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28622.49471875,"end":28623.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28625.616593750005,"end":28629.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28629.936593750004,"end":28632.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28633.22721875,"end":28637.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28637.732843750004,"end":28649.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28650.203468749998,"end":28657.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28657.257218750005,"end":28661.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28661.40846875,"end":28671.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28672.967843750004,"end":28677.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28677.996593750002,"end":28687.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28687.919093750003,"end":28691.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28693.35284375,"end":28694.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28695.14159375,"end":28697.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28698.12846875,"end":28702.819718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28703.022218750004,"end":28706.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28706.56596875,"end":28712.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28712.640968749998,"end":28713.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28714.14284375,"end":28714.952843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28715.30721875,"end":28716.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28716.404093750003,"end":28717.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":28717.51784375,"end":28719.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28721.804093750005,"end":28723.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28725.398468749998,"end":28728.452843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28741.66596875,"end":28743.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28743.77534375,"end":28745.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28746.52596875,"end":28747.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28749.07409375,"end":28750.694093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28751.47034375,"end":28754.490968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28755.638468750003,"end":28757.849093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28760.295968750004,"end":28765.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28766.927843750003,"end":28767.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28768.15971875,"end":28769.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28771.01159375,"end":28772.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28772.412218750003,"end":28774.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28775.61846875,"end":28776.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28777.035968750002,"end":28777.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28778.841593750003,"end":28780.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28781.10284375,"end":28781.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28782.942218750002,"end":28784.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28784.68034375,"end":28786.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28787.21159375,"end":28789.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28790.012843750003,"end":28790.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28792.20659375,"end":28792.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28793.53971875,"end":28795.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28796.340968750003,"end":28798.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28799.125343749998,"end":28799.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28800.96471875,"end":28802.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28803.04034375,"end":28803.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28805.08221875,"end":28805.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28806.887843750003,"end":28807.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28808.372843750003,"end":28809.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28810.465343750002,"end":28811.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28812.608468750004,"end":28813.334093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28813.92471875,"end":28814.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28815.764093750004,"end":28816.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28817.16471875,"end":28817.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28819.51034375,"end":28820.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28822.22721875,"end":28824.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28824.825968750003,"end":28825.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28826.108468750004,"end":28829.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28831.289093749998,"end":28832.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28832.554718749998,"end":28833.600968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28834.05659375,"end":28835.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28835.710343750005,"end":28836.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28837.887218750002,"end":28838.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28839.405968750005,"end":28842.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28843.45596875,"end":28848.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28849.193468750003,"end":28850.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28850.543468750002,"end":28851.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28851.944093750004,"end":28853.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28854.28971875,"end":28855.437218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28856.55096875,"end":28857.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28858.069718750005,"end":28862.271593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28862.87909375,"end":28864.397843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28864.87034375,"end":28867.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28867.536593750003,"end":28868.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28869.544718750003,"end":28873.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28874.084093750003,"end":28876.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28876.68284375,"end":28877.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28878.437843749998,"end":28880.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28880.15909375,"end":28881.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28882.87596875,"end":28883.382218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28885.255343750003,"end":28885.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28886.436593750004,"end":28892.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28893.76034375,"end":28895.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28896.224093750003,"end":28897.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28897.590968750003,"end":28898.873468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28899.632843749998,"end":28904.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28904.864093750002,"end":28905.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28906.11284375,"end":28907.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28907.58096875,"end":28908.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28909.03221875,"end":28909.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28910.11221875,"end":28911.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28911.749093750004,"end":28913.419718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_66","start":28913.89221875,"end":28925.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28932.91034375,"end":28934.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28934.496593750002,"end":28935.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":28935.74534375,"end":28938.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28943.65971875,"end":28945.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28945.617218749998,"end":28951.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28951.21971875,"end":28954.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28954.999718750005,"end":28959.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28959.319718750005,"end":28962.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28963.26846875,"end":28966.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28966.52534375,"end":28969.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28969.91721875,"end":28988.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28989.22221875,"end":28992.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28992.850343750004,"end":28994.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28994.217218750004,"end":28998.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28998.672218749998,"end":29035.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29035.17284375,"end":29044.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29044.234718749998,"end":29045.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29045.348468750002,"end":29045.685968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29045.95596875,"end":29058.780968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29059.388468750003,"end":29078.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29079.14909375,"end":29085.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29086.57409375,"end":29087.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29087.654093750003,"end":29088.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29088.818468750003,"end":29110.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29111.43096875,"end":29113.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29113.793468750002,"end":29117.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29118.062843749998,"end":29119.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29120.138468750003,"end":29122.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29122.484093750005,"end":29127.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29129.79096875,"end":29131.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29131.71471875,"end":29134.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29147.29034375,"end":29149.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29149.770968750003,"end":29152.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29153.685968750004,"end":29158.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29159.11971875,"end":29163.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29163.86159375,"end":29167.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29168.19846875,"end":29171.168468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29171.843468750005,"end":29172.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29173.632218750005,"end":29174.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29174.779718750004,"end":29178.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29179.28534375,"end":29183.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29183.99346875,"end":29186.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29186.96346875,"end":29188.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29188.499093750004,"end":29191.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29191.890968749998,"end":29197.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29197.881593750004,"end":29199.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29200.176593750002,"end":29206.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29206.504718750002,"end":29213.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29213.64284375,"end":29219.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29219.97096875,"end":29221.827218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29222.16471875,"end":29226.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29227.80096875,"end":29230.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29230.82159375,"end":29233.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29234.483468750004,"end":29236.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29236.82909375,"end":29238.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29239.17471875,"end":29244.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29245.114718750003,"end":29247.780968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29248.607843750004,"end":29250.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29251.223468750002,"end":29252.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29253.045968750004,"end":29256.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29257.31534375,"end":29258.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29258.715968750003,"end":29259.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29260.639718750004,"end":29263.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29263.778468750003,"end":29264.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29264.824718750002,"end":29267.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29267.929718749998,"end":29268.452843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29269.718468750005,"end":29272.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29272.82346875,"end":29274.359093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29275.15221875,"end":29277.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29278.27409375,"end":29279.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29280.788468750005,"end":29282.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29283.16784375,"end":29285.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29286.74534375,"end":29289.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29289.934718750003,"end":29291.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29291.77409375,"end":29293.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29293.849718750003,"end":29294.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29294.30534375,"end":29295.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29295.942218750002,"end":29298.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29299.334093750003,"end":29300.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29301.038468750005,"end":29305.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29305.442843750003,"end":29309.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29310.927218750003,"end":29314.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29315.65221875,"end":29318.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29319.12846875,"end":29325.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29326.350968750005,"end":29328.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29328.49409375,"end":29329.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":29329.32096875,"end":29330.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29332.71284375,"end":29333.843468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29334.467843750004,"end":29337.201593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29344.08659375,"end":29344.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29345.419718750003,"end":29350.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29351.08971875,"end":29356.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29357.451593750004,"end":29364.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29365.349093750003,"end":29370.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29370.25971875,"end":29372.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29373.31409375,"end":29375.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29375.288468750005,"end":29387.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29388.09659375,"end":29392.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29393.226593749998,"end":29396.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29396.97284375,"end":29400.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29401.022843750005,"end":29401.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29401.866593750005,"end":29402.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29403.351593749998,"end":29405.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29405.57909375,"end":29407.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29407.435343750003,"end":29409.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29410.05096875,"end":29410.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29410.77659375,"end":29416.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29417.037218750003,"end":29422.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29422.437218750005,"end":29424.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29424.68159375,"end":29425.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29426.014718750004,"end":29428.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29429.22096875,"end":29435.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29435.66721875,"end":29436.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29436.83159375,"end":29438.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29438.637218750002,"end":29442.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29442.687218750005,"end":29451.546593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29451.968468750005,"end":29464.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29464.607843750004,"end":29473.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29474.108468750004,"end":29477.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29477.905343750004,"end":29481.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29482.022843750005,"end":29484.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29485.279718750004,"end":29487.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29487.692843750003,"end":29497.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29498.39159375,"end":29503.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29503.87596875,"end":29508.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29509.107218750003,"end":29515.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29515.418468750002,"end":29519.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29520.76784375,"end":29521.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29521.965968750003,"end":29525.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29540.039093749998,"end":29542.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29542.72221875,"end":29543.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29544.679718749998,"end":29545.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29546.789093749998,"end":29547.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29548.27409375,"end":29549.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29549.742218749998,"end":29551.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29552.39159375,"end":29555.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29556.272843750005,"end":29559.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29560.356593750003,"end":29560.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29561.976593749998,"end":29564.187218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29565.14909375,"end":29567.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29568.35534375,"end":29569.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29571.19034375,"end":29572.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29572.55721875,"end":29573.130968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29573.265968749998,"end":29573.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29574.396593750003,"end":29575.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29575.375343749998,"end":29577.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29578.632218750005,"end":29579.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29580.539093749998,"end":29582.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29583.036593750003,"end":29584.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29586.24284375,"end":29587.997843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29588.68971875,"end":29591.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29592.16596875,"end":29594.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29594.57909375,"end":29597.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29598.038468750005,"end":29599.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29599.97909375,"end":29601.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29601.312218750005,"end":29604.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29605.311593750004,"end":29607.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29607.960968749998,"end":29608.905968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29609.59784375,"end":29611.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29611.58909375,"end":29612.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29613.124718750005,"end":29615.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29615.858468750004,"end":29617.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29617.984718749998,"end":29620.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29620.397843750005,"end":29620.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29621.51159375,"end":29624.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29625.156593749998,"end":29630.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29631.045968750004,"end":29631.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29632.54784375,"end":29634.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29635.50096875,"end":29636.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29637.54284375,"end":29639.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29640.428468750004,"end":29641.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29641.778468750003,"end":29643.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29644.25909375,"end":29648.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29648.93346875,"end":29656.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29657.11784375,"end":29658.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29660.054093750005,"end":29661.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29661.65721875,"end":29664.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29665.28534375,"end":29668.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29668.93034375,"end":29673.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29673.840968750003,"end":29675.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29676.405968750005,"end":29677.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29678.059718750003,"end":29682.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29683.83096875,"end":29685.788468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29686.24409375,"end":29697.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29698.427843750003,"end":29699.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29699.895968750003,"end":29701.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29701.600343750004,"end":29704.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29704.72221875,"end":29707.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29708.50221875,"end":29710.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29710.763468750003,"end":29724.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29727.28409375,"end":29730.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29738.826593750004,"end":29744.327843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29744.732843750004,"end":29745.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29745.40784375,"end":29760.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29761.388468750003,"end":29771.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29772.475343750004,"end":29776.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29776.474718750003,"end":29786.093468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29786.66721875,"end":29797.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29797.467218750004,"end":29802.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29802.968468750005,"end":29805.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29805.51659375,"end":29814.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29815.000343749998,"end":29817.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29818.81409375,"end":29827.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29828.39909375,"end":29833.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29833.81596875,"end":29835.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29835.317843750003,"end":29838.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29838.405968750005,"end":29855.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29855.787218750003,"end":29904.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29905.467218750004,"end":29909.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_48","start":29909.179718749998,"end":29921.937218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29923.01721875,"end":29924.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":29925.177218750003,"end":29927.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":29942.288468750005,"end":29952.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":29952.85221875,"end":29958.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":29959.33221875,"end":29961.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":29961.84659375,"end":29971.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":29971.65096875,"end":30006.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30006.78471875,"end":30007.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30008.320343749998,"end":30012.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30013.29846875,"end":30015.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30015.82971875,"end":30027.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30027.810968750004,"end":30045.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30045.647843750005,"end":30088.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30088.881593750004,"end":30116.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30116.75909375,"end":30117.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30118.294718750003,"end":30121.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30122.715968750003,"end":30124.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30124.943468750003,"end":30126.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30130.950968750003,"end":30136.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30139.45596875,"end":30143.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30146.72909375,"end":30147.420968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30151.25159375,"end":30152.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":30161.849093750003,"end":30164.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_53","start":30164.22846875,"end":30232.538468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30235.54221875,"end":30237.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30239.052218750003,"end":30239.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30240.80721875,"end":30243.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30243.912218750003,"end":30245.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30246.645968750003,"end":30247.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30247.99596875,"end":30251.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30252.07971875,"end":30254.054093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30254.94846875,"end":30264.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30265.05659375,"end":30271.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30702.287843750004,"end":30711.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30713.81346875,"end":30715.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30716.969093749998,"end":30719.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30720.006593750004,"end":30720.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30721.64346875,"end":30730.418468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30805.29284375,"end":30810.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_52","start":30805.512218750002,"end":30806.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30810.912218750003,"end":30815.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30820.817843750003,"end":30828.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30831.85409375,"end":30833.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":30847.76721875,"end":30849.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30850.73721875,"end":30861.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30927.18096875,"end":30929.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30929.71221875,"end":30931.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30931.872218750003,"end":30933.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30933.96471875,"end":30937.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30937.913468750005,"end":30940.765343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30941.389718750004,"end":30942.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30942.82409375,"end":30949.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30955.14284375,"end":30955.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30956.357843750004,"end":30960.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30960.390968749998,"end":30962.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30963.209093750003,"end":30966.280343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30966.719093749998,"end":30971.241593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30971.646593750003,"end":30973.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30973.739093750002,"end":30977.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30977.60346875,"end":30977.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":30977.70471875,"end":30983.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31059.58221875,"end":31065.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31066.95659375,"end":31069.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31071.951593750004,"end":31080.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31080.33846875,"end":31081.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31081.317218750002,"end":31083.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31098.37784375,"end":31101.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31102.36034375,"end":31107.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31108.452218750004,"end":31112.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31112.974718750003,"end":31120.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":31120.787843750004,"end":31124.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31125.951593750004,"end":31133.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31133.730968750002,"end":31135.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31135.452218750004,"end":31138.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31146.420968750004,"end":31157.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31158.030968750005,"end":31158.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31159.14471875,"end":31174.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31174.63596875,"end":31176.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31176.694718750005,"end":31188.203468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31188.87846875,"end":31207.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31207.94721875,"end":31209.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31210.005968750003,"end":31220.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31221.34596875,"end":31243.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31246.169093750003,"end":31251.687218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31251.906593749998,"end":31258.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31258.319093750004,"end":31259.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31261.44096875,"end":31263.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31263.887843750003,"end":31269.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31269.86159375,"end":31273.05096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1780.868,"end":1785.249,"text":"各位同仁 各位媒體先進 大家早安 大家好"},{"start":1807.083,"end":1825.496,"text":"賴清德總統執政即將滿一週年此時應該是展現政績收穫民眾支持的時刻然而一份又一份的民調卻狠狠打臉這位強調合作的總統根據日前公布的全國性民調賴清德總統幾乎墊底"},{"start":1827.898,"end":1848.281,"text":"僅略勝當年陷入貪汙風暴的前總統陳水扁這份民調不是在野黨的指控而是人民用數據對賴清德總統執政的真實評價賴總統去年就職的時候說三黨不過半是人民的選擇我們要有合作的信念"},{"start":1849.102,"end":1871.643,"text":"但一年過去了,我們看見的不是謙卑與合作,而是不斷操縱對立,肆意攻擊在野黨的政治手段。在賴總統執政週年之際,理應釋放善意,結合在野力量,共同面對美國關稅壓力及兩岸緊張局勢。近日,美國外交事務"},{"start":1873.385,"end":1877.679,"text":"刊登華府智庫專家專文指出台海爆發戰爭的風險很高"},{"start":1879.997,"end":1907.041,"text":"而且還在升高本席期盼在面對攸關全民安危的兩岸關係賴總統以國家安全為重重新調整兩岸政策降低兩岸日益緊繃的情勢化解可能面對的開戰風險但是令本席遺憾的是當在野黨立委在國會發出監督聲音時賴總統卻未秉持憲政合作的精神"},{"start":1907.621,"end":1931.914,"text":"反而公開操作政治對立以執政黨主席掀起大罷免風潮將國家治理推向政黨之間的對抗的泥沼這種將反對意見視為敵人的政治邏輯不僅與民主精神背道而馳更加劇台灣社會內部的撕裂感民主的核心是節制而不是濫權"},{"start":1933.376,"end":1960.008,"text":"本席呼籲賴清德總統應尊重民意的選擇而不應面對在野黨監督政府施政時反而用政治動員煽動民粹發起大罷免進一步撕裂台灣在野黨立委用立法權來制衡行政權就被扣上毀憲亂政的帽子這樣的思維已經背離了民主的精神最後本席相信"},{"start":1960.948,"end":1982.984,"text":"民眾要的是團結與務實解決問題的總統而不是製造對立做政治清算與權力鬥爭的總統請賴總統放下權力的執著正是物價高漲青年低薪產業困境與居住壓力這些人民在乎的民生問題才是施政的核心賴總統您聽到了嗎"},{"start":1988.151,"end":2002.531,"text":"謝謝張志倫委員的發言歡迎現在在議場二樓旁聽的來自台北市幼華高中的所有同學 歡迎各位同學未來的國家棟樑 歡迎你們接下來我們請劉書斌委員發言 林倩琦委員請準備"},{"start":2017.85,"end":2041.458,"text":"院長各位同仁大家好凱開安讓我們看見責任的模糊以及長期被忽略的社福漏洞5月13日的時候台北地院針對凱開安作出判決劉彩萱被判無期徒刑劉若琳被判處18年而福聯盟在事後表示感到萬分的愧疚"},{"start":2043.069,"end":2052.08,"text":"也向凱凱安道歉說抱歉讓您受苦了但我們要問一句一句道歉能讓凱凱復生嗎"},{"start":2055.144,"end":2074.065,"text":"凱凱母親在懷孕期間便已經打算出養了社福中心將個案轉接到兒童福利聯盟而根據兒少原則安置原則孩子應優先安置到寄養家庭由專業程度遠高於一般的居家保母的寄養父母來收養"},{"start":2075.373,"end":2090.061,"text":"但現實是什麼呢現實是寄養家庭嚴重不足持續湧現的個案數讓社工幾乎是疲於奔命一個社工甚至常常要負責超過80位居家保姆的訪視"},{"start":2093.027,"end":2113.495,"text":"應用額案的照樣來源有三第一個是家屬親屬第二個是居家保姆第三個是托育中心政府面對額虐的問題卻總是重點錯置社會安全網的一個重點不該是只放在看得見的地方而是應該去加強那些看不見的盲點"},{"start":2115.39,"end":2135.582,"text":"我們也要檢討政府在管理與監督體系當中是不是出現了求援兼裁判的情況過去幾年 標案總是集中在特定的社福團體卻已再次爆出訪視疏漏 包庇案件甚至是嚴重失職的狀況這些問題不能用一句我們很抱歉就帶過了"},{"start":2137.083,"end":2164.86,"text":"我們需要系統性的改革第一個強化家庭的親子教育在內的兒少個案風險評估跟風險管制機制第二提升寄養家庭的招募跟補助擴充安置來源第三調整社工的工作內容跟範圍還有人力讓他們真正的落實仿試第四對長期監督就把持監督權失能的團體呢要重新檢查這個他的公信力還有合約的資格"},{"start":2166.662,"end":2184.757,"text":"這是我們的良心考驗的時候了孩子不能等凱凱也不應該要白白的犧牲孩子尤其是他不再能夠復生了讓我們一起來守護兒少做出正確的行動守護兒少做正確的行動謝謝大家謝謝劉淑冰委員的發言接下來我們請林倩琦委員發言陳敬威委員請準備"},{"start":2207.179,"end":2216.161,"text":"主席 府會同仁 媒體朋友 大家好核管法修法過關台灣不再被非核神主牌綁架"},{"start":2217.352,"end":2237.088,"text":"今天本市要特别针对此周核子反应器设施管制法修正案的三读通过所带来的重大意义提出说明这项修法不仅让台湾核能设施的管理制度更加完善更为国家未来的能源政策的稳定安全与发展打开了全新的法治空间"},{"start":2238.429,"end":2265.943,"text":"臺灣的能源政策長期受到非核家園意識形態的影響缺乏科學與理性的討論導致能源結構失衡電力供應不穩電價不斷上升面對AI產業半導體先進製程帶來的巨量用電需求我們再也不能忽視核能在能源穩定性中重要的角色此次修法正是回應現實的需求重建能源韌性的重要一步"},{"start":2267.512,"end":2286.279,"text":"此次修法的核心是針對核子反應器設施運轉執照的管理機制進行了系統性的調整根據新法的規定核能設施的運轉執照有效期間是最長40年但如果設備安全性能良好經營者還可以在執照借滿前依法申請換照"},{"start":2287.979,"end":2304.207,"text":"經主管機關審核確認無安全顧慮以後,換發的運轉執照可延長20年。這樣的修法不僅導入了國際間通行的核電廠研議制度,也為台灣未來核三的研議提出了一些討論。"},{"start":2305.848,"end":2334.208,"text":"来评估新型小型模组化核能成为现在我们在往前一步很重要的步骤提供了我们也针对这次的修法提供了法治的依据那另外一个核心则是进一步强化了核能设施运转前的安全门槛法条明定核子反应设施新建完成后必须要经过主管经关审核中期安全分析报告新建期间的检查改善结果以及系统功能试验合格"},{"start":2334.608,"end":2351.815,"text":"才能夠填裝燃料然後在燃料填裝後也必須要通過主管機關的功率試驗審核並取得運轉執照才能夠運轉這不僅提高了核電廠運轉的安全性也回應了社會大眾對核能安全的高度關切"},{"start":2352.615,"end":2377.766,"text":"過去民進黨一直說無法可管但是因此而迴避了電廠研議的討論但現在法院已經明確未來核電廠能夠在安全無異的情況下能夠延續運轉回歸到科學評估及專業審查不再被政治操作綁架這也證明了非核家園口號式的政策已經難以因應台灣目前的能源現實"},{"start":2379.227,"end":2388.365,"text":"台灣不應該繼續走一條電力不穩電價飆漲碳排難降的困局之路能源政策必須要回歸理性與科學的討論兼顧供電穩定"},{"start":2397.349,"end":2417.381,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言歡迎會現在在一層二樓旁聽的又有來自我們立法委員羅志祥委員邀請的美國加州聖蓋博士的市長還有議員Welcome,Legislative YoungWelcome, Mayor, pleaseThank you接下來我們請陳慶威委員發言徐議長委員請準備"},{"start":2426.57,"end":2446.373,"text":"主席各位委員還有媒體朋友以及樓上的同學們大家早安大家好下週就是賴清德總統即將就任一週年讓我們現在依依跟電視機前面的朋友們來細數他這一年來到底做了哪些福國利民的政績呢"},{"start":2549.005,"end":2551.152,"text":"發言時間剩下一分鐘"},{"start":2580.114,"end":2587.239,"text":"不好意思本席想了三分鐘但我想不出賴清德這一年來到底做了什麼豐功偉業謝謝大家"},{"start":2611.417,"end":2633.368,"text":"主席各位同仁還有各位同學大家早回顧賴清德總統一年來的施政表現內政上無能為力外交上進退失據兩岸關係更是火上加油導致台海空前的局勢緊張並在多項關鍵的議題上暴露出領導風格的局限與政策方向的偏差"},{"start":2634.148,"end":2661.709,"text":"根據最新的賴清德總統的就職週年的滿意度調查我們看到高達55%的民眾是不滿意的而滿意度只有32%我們也可以看到對賴清德總統未來施政表現有57%的民眾沒有信心打擊詐騙 司法改革 拼經濟表現都有超過五成多的不滿意度而近六成的民眾也不支持大罷免"},{"start":2662.97,"end":2679.399,"text":"而我們可以看到呢民怨逐步在高漲但是賴清德總統仍選擇築起對抗民意的高牆壟斷政治與司法的權力還對在野黨發動大罷免 大搜索 大羈押只要不認就羈押 押到你認為止"},{"start":2680.419,"end":2709.438,"text":"但身為賴清德愛將的陳忠彥性招待案卻能三度脫身我們看到的是台灣民主出現空前的危機而更令人震驚的是民進黨一邊抹黑在野黨親共賣台自己卻在總統府行政院外交部國安會民進黨部養共諜這種雙標的行徑不僅令人不齒更徹底揭穿真正造成國安破口的是民進黨"},{"start":2711,"end":2726.891,"text":"而綠共就在民進黨賴清德個性剛病格局狹隘這一年來的表現令人失望居住正義停滯不前青年低薪問題沒有解決難怪20到29歲的年輕人滿意度只有26%"},{"start":2729.093,"end":2753.772,"text":"而賴政府不僅沒有開創新局反而故不自封還越做越爛難怪他的執政成績是死當而賴清德總統在面對在野黨監督的時候處處表現出總統和行政權至上的威權獨裁心態毫無承受民主制度應有的尊重與溝通導致政策推動困難民進黨長期以來的野蠻腐敗"},{"start":2755.614,"end":2774.964,"text":"反改革的形象使賴清德總統的誠信與能力備受質疑這不僅是他個人的危機更是整個執政團隊的嚴重警訊總結這一年來賴清德政府不僅無能更令人憂心的是他正一步步將台灣帶向獨裁戰爭與崩壞的深淵"},{"start":2778.906,"end":2791.369,"text":"他沒有謀略卻充滿傲氣沒有改革卻只會鬥爭沒有民意基礎卻想操縱整個國家的命運賴清德總統若繼續執迷不悟將會是台灣史上最黑暗的災難"},{"start":2816.38,"end":2833.955,"text":"院長各位親愛的家人大家好從新住民積分法通過後我一路追蹤新住民發展署的設立進度結果已經超過9個月了直到前天我在內政委員會執行時終於看清"},{"start":2837.557,"end":2856.672,"text":"內政部根本就是在偷劉世芳部長竟然說新住民發展署不能成立是因為三級機關的數量已滿我今天公開質問部長你知不知道中央行政機關組織基準法三級機關的數量已從70個調整為71個"},{"start":2864.337,"end":2890.355,"text":"發展署的編制早就納入法規了那你說的額度不足到底是你沒看懂法還是唐塞國人還是根本什麼都沒做家人倆包只好亂編一個署滿了來遮羞原來這就是民進黨對新住民的態度嗎解凍預算的報告"},{"start":2891.856,"end":2916.605,"text":"部長輕描淡寫的說一句依照時程 何來時程有白紙黑字嗎一句話就想打發敷衍監督權我們200萬新住民的人口不是數字 不是口號我們是這塊土地的家人 也是主人是大家共同生活的夥伴"},{"start":2917.105,"end":2934.617,"text":"我們要問的不是新住民發展署能不能成立而是為什麼到現在還沒成立我們期待的是實質的權力保障不是行政的怠惰不是政治的跳票劉部長"},{"start":2936.258,"end":2949.351,"text":"如果你無心處理內政業務就請你別再當薪水小偷了台灣人民要的就是讓你成"},{"start":2951.562,"end":2972.975,"text":"兌現承諾讓我們一起來監督一起發聲新住民發展署不能再等了請賴政府你別再讓內政部部長把內政部一直搞爛下去了台灣人民加油新住民加油謝謝大家"},{"start":2977.682,"end":2984.489,"text":"谢谢曼玉珍委员的发言现在我们登记国事论坛的发言委员均已发言完毕现在休息"},{"start":5381.643,"end":5393.849,"text":"報告院會我們現在開會我們請民主黨報告出席人數報告院會出席委員八十九人已足法定人數我們現在開會先處理朝野黨團協商結論兩件請議事人員宣讀第一件"},{"start":5397.827,"end":5422.535,"text":"立法院黨團協商結論時間114年5月15日星期四下午3時30分地點紅樓302會議室決定事項一本地三會期經會集合委員會依政黨比例由國民黨黨團推派4人民進黨黨團推派4人台灣民眾黨黨團推派1人代表組成名單請於5月22日星期四中午12時前送至議事處會診"},{"start":5424.096,"end":5446.716,"text":"上述名單送交議事處後及不予更換主持人韓國瑜將啟程寫上代表胡坤崎王宏威羅志強柯建銘吳思堯陳培宇陳昭志黃國昌張其凱宣讀完畢請繼續宣讀第二件立法院黨團寫上結論時間一百十四年五月十五日星期四我們對"},{"start":5450.575,"end":5475.738,"text":"更正我們現在做以下決定114年度5月15日朝野黨團協商結論經決定如下一本第三會計新費集合委員會一政黨比例由國民黨團推派四位民進黨團推派四位台灣民眾黨黨團推派一位代表組成名單請於5月22日星期四中午12點前送至議事處會診上述名單送交議事處之後我們不再予以更換請繼續宣讀第二件"},{"start":5478.504,"end":5507.294,"text":"議法院黨團協商結論時間一百十四年五月十五日星期四下午三十三十分地點紅樓三零二會議室決定事項一請各黨團於五月二十一日星期三中午十二時前將中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第五期特別預算案之提案送致財政委員會會診預時不再收案二財政委員會收案後於五月二十三日星期五中午十二時前提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考"},{"start":5508.614,"end":5531.137,"text":"請行政部門先行向提案委員及黨團進行雙向說明落實溝通以利後續進行密集協商主持人韓國瑜將啟程協商代表胡坤吉 王宏威 羅志強柯建民 吳思堯 陳培宇 陳昭之 黃國昌 張啟凱宣讀完畢請問議員會對以上朝野黨團協商兩岸有無異議沒有異議兩岸我們就予以通過一百四年"},{"start":5531.881,"end":5546.479,"text":"5月15日超越党团协商结论今决定如下一 请各党团于5月21日星期三中午12点前将中央政府前瞻基础建设计划第五期特别预算案之提案送至财政委会会者预时不再收案"},{"start":5547.08,"end":5568.351,"text":"二 財政委會收案後於5月23日星期五中午12點前提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考請行政部門先行向提案委員及黨團進行雙向說明落實溝通 以利後續進行密集協商我們現在進行報告事項請秘書長宣讀第三會期第十一會議議事錄"},{"start":5571.147,"end":5598.425,"text":"宣讀立法院第十一屆第三會期第十一次會議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年五月九日上午九十四九十七分十十至下午一時五十分三十三十分至五十十一分五月十三日上午九十至十一時三十四分下午二十三十分至八十四三分地點本院議場出席委員柯委員建民等一百十三年主席院長韓國瑜報告事項第一案宣讀本院第一十一屆第三會期"},{"start":5599.426,"end":5622.544,"text":"第十四會議事錄決定確定第二至十八二十至五三五十五至六百四十二案均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會第十九案決定經獲讀與相關提案並按協商第五十四案決定同意撤回執行事項夾請在答案部份十一件與本院委員執行部份事件討論事項第一案提案"},{"start":5623.734,"end":5641.564,"text":"黨團策委會議案第2至4、6至18、20、21案均決議通過第2案決議照審查會意見通過第4、9案決議請院長召集協商協商後再行處理其他事項變更議程提議台灣民眾黨黨團議案國民黨黨團思案均予以通過台灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團分別提議延長開會時間議案予以通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":5649.488,"end":5672.425,"text":"大会议员会针对第三会期第十一次会议议事录并没有委员或党团提出错误或遗漏之处我们现在作以下决定第三会期第十一次会议议事录确定请宣读第二案第二案本院委员王玉敏等17人邻居住宅法第四条第十九条及第二十条条文修宪草案请委员会见交内政委员会审查宣读完毕请委员会有意 没有意通过下议案"},{"start":5672.881,"end":5694.371,"text":"第3案,本院委員王玉敏等17人離聚,就業服務法第24條、第27條及第28條的文修生草案,程序委員會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查,宣傳完畢。第4案,本院委員李博義等17人離聚,社會秩序維護法第8條、第9條及第10條的文修生草案,程序委員會見交內政委員會審查,宣傳完畢。"},{"start":5695.592,"end":5698.795,"text":"第五案委員會審查宣傳完畢委員會審查宣傳完畢委員會審查宣傳完畢委員會審查宣傳完畢"},{"start":5715.709,"end":5738.074,"text":"第七案 本院委員李柏毅等17人離去 運動財券發行條例第21條及第21條之一條維修正常案 財修委員會兼交教育解放化財政兩委員會審查 宣言完畢第八案 本院委員李柏毅等17人離去 中華民國刑法刪除第五章之一章名及第141條之一條文章案 財修委員會兼交司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5739.074,"end":5758.144,"text":"第九案 北域委員李柏毅等16人離聚 刑事訴訟法第31條條文修正常案 裁刑委員會監交司法及法制委員會審查 宣傳完畢第十案 北域委員李柏毅等16人離聚 病人自主權利法第9條條文修正常案 裁刑委員會監交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣傳完畢"},{"start":5759.244,"end":5775.835,"text":"第十一案 北域委員政天才等16人離聚因應國際情勢強化經濟社會韌性及促進全民消費特別條例草案 財修委員會兼交經濟財政兩委員會審查 宣言完畢第十二案 北域委員王宏偉等18人離聚 貨物稅條例第12條之3條維修現場案 財修委員會兼交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5781.238,"end":5803.71,"text":"第十三案 北医委员王洪伟等十七人累居 使用排生税法第五条条文修正草案 采修委员会间交财政委员会审查 确定完毕第十四案 北医委员王洪伟等十七人累居 青年基本法草案 采修委员会间交交给文化委员会审查 确定完毕第十五案 北医委员陈冠廷等十六人累居 劳动基准法增厘第三十二条十二条文草案"},{"start":5804.23,"end":5805.111,"text":"第十六案第十七案第十八案"},{"start":5826.391,"end":5826.871,"text":"議通過下議案議通過下議案"},{"start":5851.325,"end":5852.626,"text":"会通过下议案会通过下议案"},{"start":5872.265,"end":5892.163,"text":"第25案 本院委員和新選的17位人力具因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性特別條例草案 前衆委員會間交經濟財政兩委員會審查 確定違規第23案 本院委員和新選的22位人力具日程資料保護委員會組織法草案 前衆委員會間交司法及法律經濟兩委員會審查 確定違規"},{"start":5894.565,"end":5919.945,"text":"第24案 北医务员陈北宇等16人离聚保险法第167条之1条文修正草案财政委员会监交财政委员会审查 宣传完毕第25案 北医务员陈北宇等16人离聚保险法第167条之1条文修正草案财政委员会监交财政委员会审查 宣传完毕第26案 北医务员吴立华等19人离聚组寻平等反歧视法草案"},{"start":5920.906,"end":5925.773,"text":"主持人平等及反歧视法草案财修委员会间交内政委员会审查宣言完毕"},{"start":5936.247,"end":5937.808,"text":"第二十八案第二十九案第二十九案"},{"start":5953.397,"end":5954.178,"text":"未通過下言未通過下言"},{"start":5977.754,"end":5978.294,"text":"委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查委員會審查"},{"start":6000.948,"end":6030.181,"text":"第34案 北域委員吳麗華等18人列舉《軍事審判法》增訂第237條是一條文草案 陳修緣會監教司法及法治外交及國防兩委員會審查 宣布完畢第35案 北域委員吳麗華等17人列舉《陸海工軍軍官事官認識條例》第12條條文修正草案 陳修緣會監教司法及法治外交及國防兩委員會審查 宣布完畢第36案 北域委員張志倫等19人列舉《婚婚稅條例》第11條是一條文修正草案"},{"start":6030.641,"end":6043.844,"text":"请选业委员会意见将财政委员会审查宣传完毕报应会报告事项第36案现有国民党团体金服二毒与相关提案并案协商请委员会有異议灭议本案金服二毒与相关提案并案协商下议案"},{"start":6044.775,"end":6047.457,"text":"第三十七案委託我小燕委託我小燕"},{"start":6069.153,"end":6089.64,"text":"第39案 北域委員徐宇珍的21人離去因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費者適應特別條例草案財修委員會兼交經濟財政兩委員會審查 宣言完畢 下議案第40案 北域委員賴世寶的27人離去土地法第97條條文修正草案財修委員會兼交內政委員會審查 宣言完畢 下議案"},{"start":6090.64,"end":6116.655,"text":"第四十一案 本優委員賴瑟寶的三十二年連續《證券投資人集齊或交易人保護法》第十條是一條維修生草案陳修遠會監教財政委員會審查 宣言完畢第四十三案 本優委員賴瑟寶的三十二年連續《因應國際情勢強化經濟與社會潤性特別條例草案》陳修遠會監教經濟財政兩委員會審查 宣言完畢第四十三案 本優委員林建啟等十八人連續"},{"start":6117.375,"end":6120.478,"text":"報告議員會報告事項第43案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請問議員會有異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商下一項"},{"start":6133.291,"end":6149.959,"text":"第四十四案 北域委員林倩琦等16人離聚核子反應器事實管制法第六條條文修正常案財修委員會建交交集文化委員會審查 宣布完畢第四十五案 北域委員林倩琦等17人離聚第一頁法第55條條文修正常案財修委員會建交經濟委員會審查 宣布完畢"},{"start":6153.201,"end":6155.743,"text":"第四十六案第四十七案第四十八案"},{"start":6183.782,"end":6193.613,"text":"報應會報告事項第48案現有國民黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商請問願會有無異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商下頁"},{"start":6194.192,"end":6213.685,"text":"第49案 北部委員王玉敏的23人離聚 中華民國刑法第271條條文修正常案 裁判委員會監教司法計劃事務委員會審查 宣告完畢第50案 北部委員王玉敏的26人離聚 性別平等工作法第15條條文修正常案 裁判委員會監教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣告完畢"},{"start":6214.725,"end":6230.773,"text":"第五十一案北部委员杨崇英等19人邻居青年基本法草案财修委员会监教教育及文化委员会审查讯论案第五十二案北部委员离婚生等26人邻居自动安全隔离法修正草案财修委员会监教消通委员会审查讯论案"},{"start":6231.753,"end":6248.854,"text":"第五十三案 北部委員禮昆城等二十二人離聚 定業法部分條文修正草案 裁處委員會兼交經濟委員會審查 宣傳秘密第五十四案 北部委員參與等十七人離聚 兒童托育服務方草案 裁處委員會兼交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣傳秘密"},{"start":6249.955,"end":6279.154,"text":"第55案 本院委員參與的學生人力區青年基本法草案 財政委員會建交及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢第56案 本院委員參與的學生人力區戶戶稅條例第11條11條文書審草案 財政委員會建交財政委員會審查 宣言完畢報告事項第56案 現有民進黨黨團體禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商 請問院會有異議沒有異議 本案禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商 下議案"},{"start":6279.605,"end":6301.256,"text":"第五十七案 北域委員陳俊宇等三十五人鄰居老年農民福利今天算行條例第四條條文修正草案陳修永會兼交社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委員會審查 宣言完畢第五十八案 北域委員陳俊宇等三十五人鄰居破產房地水條及地板實際條條文修正草案陳修永會兼交司法及法律委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":6302.617,"end":6312.149,"text":"第五十九案 本院委員邱怡穎等二十人離去 運動財券發行條例部分條文修正草案 財修委員會監教教育及文化財政兩委會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6314.298,"end":6342.58,"text":"第六十案本院委員邱盈等二十任理據農產品市場交易法第十五條條文修正常案陳修緣會監交經濟委員會審查宣布完畢第六十一案本院委員邱盈等二十任理據虛募法部分條文修正常案陳修緣會監交經濟委員會審查宣布完畢第六十二案本院委員黃潔等二十任理據兒童投育服務法草案陳修緣會監交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣布完畢"},{"start":6344.341,"end":6364.541,"text":"第六十三案本院委员黄杰等二十人邻居文化创意产业发展法增历第十条十二条文章案财修委员会建交教育及文化委员会审查宣传完毕第六十四案本院委员吴丽华等十六人邻居货物税条例第十一条十一条文修审查案财修委员会建交财政委员会审查宣传完毕"},{"start":6365.401,"end":6376.949,"text":"報告議員會報告事項第64案現有民進黨黨團提議禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商請問議員會有無異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並案協商下議案"},{"start":6378.188,"end":6406.593,"text":"第六十五案本院台外民眾黨黨團凝聚農村財政條例第七條條文修正常案財修委員會間交經濟委員會審查宣告完畢第六十六案本院台外民眾黨黨團凝聚農業保險法第二條及第十條條文修正常案財修委員會間交經濟財政條例委員會審查宣告完畢第六十七案本院委員徐玉珍你撤回前提是公會法第六條之一及第七條條文修正常案財修委員會間你請委員會同撤回宣告完畢"},{"start":6407.893,"end":6435.482,"text":"第六十八案 考试院函情随意公务人员抗击法第十二条条文修正常案案陈书彦会间交司法执法证明会审查 宣布完毕第六十九案 考试院函情随意公务人员保障法部分条文修正常案案陈书彦会间交司法执法证明会审查 宣布完毕第七十案 行政院函情随意儿童托育服务法常案案陈书彦会间交社会福利及卫生环境委员会审查 宣布完毕第七十一案 内政部行为废止"},{"start":6435.922,"end":6460.931,"text":"防灾中心服勤人员训练专业机构申请登录收费标准财修委员会兼交内政委员会宣传完毕第七十二案内政部海外修正消防安全设备检修专业机构管理办法第三条第21条及第21条之一条文财修委员会兼交内政委员会宣传完毕第七十三案内政部海外修正都市危险及老旧建筑物建筑容及奖励办法第二条及第十二条之一条文"},{"start":6461.551,"end":6465.433,"text":"第七十四案第七十四案第七十四案第七十四案"},{"start":6477.159,"end":6499.585,"text":"第79案 援助民族委員會行為修正援助民族委員發展獎勵辦法 懲罰委員會兼交內政委員會宣布完畢第76案 國防部交通部內政委員會行為修正動員實施階段國軍機動運輸及軍品運輔交通管制辦法第二條第六條及第七條條文懲罰委員會兼交外交及國防交通內政三委員會宣布完畢"},{"start":6501.045,"end":6527.322,"text":"第七十七案国防部罕为废止海军技术学校组织规整等四项法规财修委员会兼交司法及法治外交机构方两位委员会宣传完毕第七十八案经济部函送刘苏宜校正规费收费标准财修委员会兼交经济委员会宣传完毕第七十九案经济部函送加入天然气供气定型化气液应记载及不得记载事项财修委员会兼交经济委员会宣传完毕第七十九案"},{"start":6527.722,"end":6530.304,"text":"请不吝点赞 订阅 转发 打赏支持明镜与点点栏目"},{"start":6557.6,"end":6576.046,"text":"第八宣案 農業部還未修正農業科技園區管理費與服務費及必要費用收費標準第十三條主二及第十四條條文陳修緣會見交經濟委員會宣言完畢第八宣案 農業部還送黃金葛鐵線鏈及無花果為需用植物品種及種苗放置植物種類"},{"start":6576.906,"end":6579.969,"text":"未通过下言未通过下言未通过下言"},{"start":6602.307,"end":6620.128,"text":"第86案 金融監督管理委員會海維修正 證據商財務報告編制準則部分條文及其護生財務報告編制準則部分條文 程序委員會兼交財政委員會宣傳完畢第87案 金融監督管理委員會海維修正 虛擬通貨平台及交易服務"},{"start":6620.248,"end":6624.97,"text":"第八十八案金融監督管理委員會刊文修正金融商費專業處理機構設立及管理辦法第25條條文財修委員會兼交財政委員會宣布完畢"},{"start":6643.979,"end":6664.312,"text":"第八十九案 金融監督管理委員會海外修正 銀行辦理購資選客戶 需用之金融商品及服務管理辦法部分條文 裁修委員會兼交財政委員會 宣告完畢第九十案 教育部海外修正外國特定專業人才具有體育領域特殊專長 裁修委員會兼交教育及文化委員會 宣告完畢"},{"start":6665.333,"end":6674.82,"text":"第九审案 教育部才宣布海外修生 盈利事业捐赠体育运动发展事项 奋勇练习实施办法第十条条文 采讯委会间教教育及文化财政两委委会宣布完毕"},{"start":6688.769,"end":6710.864,"text":"第九十三案 交通部原住民組委員會 行為註銷前送之 觀光地區與風景特定區及自然人文生態景觀區 觀光保育費收取辦法第六條條文 程序委員會間交交通內政兩委員會 宣布完畢第九十四案 交通部含送日月潭公有碼頭及設施進駐事項 程序委員會間交交通委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6712.125,"end":6729.521,"text":"第九十五案交通部考慮修正觀光遊樂業管理規則第四十二條條文交通部觀光局審查觀光遊樂業修正許可收費標準明確修正為交通部觀光署審查觀光遊樂業修正許可收費標準並修正條文陳書永會兼交交通部永會宣傳完畢"},{"start":6730.982,"end":6751.594,"text":"第九十六案 國家運輸安全調查委員會交通部海維修正重大運輸事務之範圍 財修委員會兼交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第九十七案 數位發展部海維修正無線電頻率供應計畫 財修委員會兼交交通委員會 宣讀完畢報告委員會本案由國民黨團體改交審查 本案交交通委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":6752.113,"end":6776.672,"text":"第九十八案书卫发展部海维修审公告无人载具科技创新实验条例可供创新实验运用至无线电频率与其地理范围实验期限及其他相关条件财修委员会兼交交通委员会宣传完毕第九十九案司法院海维修审法院涉事加税调解委员本发布分条文集第二十五条附件二财修委员会兼交司法及法治委员会宣传完毕委员通告下议案"},{"start":6776.952,"end":6778.353,"text":"第101案第101案無異通告 下一案"},{"start":6801.345,"end":6820.597,"text":"第102案 法務部海外修正性侵害犯罪 負保護管署加害人 慈皇實施辦法第一條GD11條條文 採取委員會 建交司法及法律委員會 宣布完畢第103案 客家委員會海外修正 客家委員會編制表 採取委員會 建交司法及法律內政 兩委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6821.778,"end":6842.423,"text":"第104案 中央研究院行為修正 中央研究院各學術諮詢委員會及學術諮詢總會組織規程 柴州委員會建交司法及法治教育及文化兩位委員會 宣布完畢第105案 衛生福利部行為修正 出生證明書及死傳證明書 柴州委員會建交社會福利及外向環境委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6843.783,"end":6859.431,"text":"第106案 衛生福利部海外修正醫院熱力火庫沖 許可辦法第六條 附表產生委員會兼交社會福利集會上環境委員會宣傳完畢第107案 衛生福利部海外修正藥事法第27條 適合必要藥品清單"},{"start":6864.514,"end":6873.6,"text":"第108案衛生福利部函宋以維生物發酵至取之食品原料伽瑪 氨基丁酸之使用限制及標識規定社會福利集會上環境委員會宣傳完畢"},{"start":6877.702,"end":6906.322,"text":"第109案 衛生福利部函送證券服務證及服務紀錄冊管理辦法第4條及第11條條文刊物表陳修永會兼交社會福利及物上環境委員會宣傳完畢第一項案 衛生福利部函文修正全國性社會福利財政法人年度工作計劃及包括編制辦法第4條第8條條文及全國性社會福利財政法人會計處理及財務包括編制準則部分條文第19條附表1至附表4"},{"start":6907.022,"end":6907.642,"text":"第111案第112案第111案"},{"start":6933.598,"end":6943.966,"text":"通過 報言會第113案到578案 請依序宣讀我們宣讀之後 照程序委員會意見通過 請問議員會有無異議沒有異議 宣讀之後通過 請宣讀"},{"start":6946.209,"end":6968.684,"text":"第113案 教育部 第114案 追第118案 金融监督管理委員會 第119案 追第150案 教育部 第1151案 追第214案 衛生福利部 第215案 經濟部 第216案 國家運輸安全調查委員會 第217案 司法院 第218案 追第245案 國軍退局官兵輔導委員會 第246案 追第433案 國防部 第433案 及第435案 原住民組委員會"},{"start":6969.545,"end":6971.227,"text":"我們抱怨會第579案以下請一併宣讀宣讀之後我們均准以被查請宣讀"},{"start":6988.516,"end":7004.595,"text":"第5792 委本院社會福利及外商環境委會 違憂會簽署審查相關行政命令 已於法定展現審查及審查期限第5802 委本院社會福利及外商環境委會 違憂會簽署審查相關行政命令 已於立法院職業刑事法第61條 鎖定審查期限"},{"start":7021.208,"end":7031.836,"text":"我们现在报告事项均已处理完毕我们现在请各党团干部至议场后方主席休息室我们进行本次会议后续议程之沟通我们现在休息"},{"start":8980.066,"end":8996.806,"text":"歡迎各位我們現在繼續開會在進行討論事項之前我們先處理變更議程之提議並截止收案我們依提案先後順序進行處理首先我們處理國民黨團體變更議程共八案請議事人員宣讀第一案提議內容"},{"start":8997.901,"end":9024.614,"text":"本院國民黨黨團針對本地12次會議建議將委員盧信義等17人聆聚公職人員選舉報名法部分條文修正草案暫委員會抽出禁錮而讀與相關提案並安協商是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢全院會對本案有無異議沒有異議本案照案通過我們現在處理國民黨團變更議程第二案請議事人宣讀提議內容本院國民黨黨團針對本地2次會議"},{"start":9027.694,"end":9031.836,"text":"請問院會對本案有無異議沒有異議我們照案通過我們現在處理國民黨團變更議程第三案請議事人員宣讀提議內容"},{"start":9051.004,"end":9076.446,"text":"本院國民黨黨團 針對本地12次會議 建議將委員賴世寶的石丘人離去均然待遇條例第四條及第六條條文修正常案 自委會抽出禁服惡毒與相關提案並按施收是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢全院會對本案有無異議 沒有異議本案照案通過現在處理國民黨團所提議的變更議程第四案請議事人員宣讀提議內容"},{"start":9077.065,"end":9101.307,"text":"本院國民黨黨團針對本地十二次會議建請將委員翁曉琳等二十三人一聚均然待遇條例第六條談文修正草案案在委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案閉案協商是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢請問議員會對本案有無異議沒有異議我們本案照案通過我們現在處理國民黨黨團變更議程第五案請議事人員宣讀內容"},{"start":9102.506,"end":9126.919,"text":"本院國民黨黨團 針對本地十二次會議 建請鄉委員羅廷偉等十六人一聚均然待遇條例第五條及第六條條文修憲草案案自委員會抽出淨富二讀與相關提案並且協商是否要當進行公決 宣讀完畢全院會對本案有意 沒有意我們本案照案通過我們現在處理國民黨團變更議程第六案 請議事人宣讀題內容"},{"start":9128.038,"end":9154.555,"text":"本院國民黨黨團 針對本地12次會議 建議向委員羅廷偉等16人理據國區退出官兵輔導條例 增立第27條之二條文草案案自委員會抽出信附的圖與相關提案平安協商是否有當進行公決 宣讀完畢全院會對本案的提議內容有無異議沒有異議本案照案通過我們現在處理國民黨黨團變更議程第七案請議事人宣讀提議內容"},{"start":9155.051,"end":9180.884,"text":"本院國民黨黨團 針對本地選案次會議 禁止鄉委員汪小玲等18案的離去國軍退出官兵輔導條例 審理第二十七條之二條文草案案自委員會 求出進一步閱讀 與相關提案並按協商是否有當及其公決 宣讀完畢前院院會對本案有無異議沒有異議本案 照案通過我們處理國民黨團提變更議程的第八案 請議事員宣讀提議內容"},{"start":9182.645,"end":9193.62,"text":"本院國民黨黨團針對歷選節第三會期第十二次會議議事程討論事項提議僅限列十六案如下列表是否由黨進行公決宣讀完畢"},{"start":9194.477,"end":9220.812,"text":"全院會對本案提的內容有無意義滅議本案照案通過包園會我們現在變更議程已經處理完畢討論事項第一案本院國民黨團建議院會決議儘速邀請行政院院長就國防軍備預算提高為GDP10%對我國可能造成的影響進行專案報告議案請議事人員宣讀提案內容"},{"start":9221.653,"end":9244.001,"text":"北約國務黨黨團有親與近日美國總統川普提名的準國防部長柯柏吉就有關防衛台灣問題表示台灣的國防預算應該接近GDP的10%國防軍備預算如上GDP10%大約2.6兆元幾乎是我國中央政府一年的稅數是否會對我國財政造成重大衝擊"},{"start":9244.921,"end":9265.846,"text":"并产生排挤效应对武官整体施政可能造成什么影响国防安全能确实获得保障吗种种问题均拥观众大烂清的政府应清楚向国家交代国防军备预算提高为GDP百分之十姿势体大国家忧心国防预算提高甚至为其国恩"},{"start":9266.366,"end":9268.067,"text":"本案經提案人說明提案子去大地討論之後"},{"start":9291.243,"end":9319.807,"text":"我們即議決交付審查或禁服二讀或不予審議我們現在請國民黨黨團提案代表葛如君委員說明提案子去時間五分鐘各位委員同仁以及全體國民大家好"},{"start":9321.109,"end":9339.667,"text":"今天我在這裡希望能夠代表國民黨黨團進行說明這是一項關乎國家安全與未來發展的決議國民黨始終堅定的支持國防建設致力於確保台灣"},{"start":9341.058,"end":9367.231,"text":"能夠具備應對任何威脅與威嚇的能力然而我們也認為國防安全的定義與實踐必須要與時俱進不能只是停留在傳統的思維而是要更積極地擁抱新興科技以全面提升國家的韌性 競爭力這才是國安 才是國防"},{"start":9369.124,"end":9390.701,"text":"本席身為立法院台美國會聯誼會的副會長先進科技交流協會的會長以及曾經隨同立法院長韓國瑜所帶領的川普就職訪團的代表團成員我有幸與美方進行深入的交流在這些對話當中我們討論到許多關鍵的議題"},{"start":9395.635,"end":9404.49,"text":"國安在這個時代國防在這個時代已經有了更大的範疇包含海防"},{"start":9405.472,"end":9425.845,"text":"海巡半導體AI人工智慧無人機人形機器人量子電腦區塊鏈科技等等領域這些不僅是科技發展的前沿更是增進國家安全提升國防韌性的重要元素"},{"start":9427.148,"end":9452.077,"text":"這些交流讓我深刻的體悟到國防預算的應用應該納入更廣闊的視野將新興科技納入其中作為國防安全的擴大解釋同時我們也已經通過核管法的修法能源安全也是國防安全的一部分"},{"start":9453.922,"end":9477.646,"text":"我們同此前董事長說核綠可以共存一年將可以為台灣省下N個千億然而我們現在看到我們的能源的來源90%仰賴外部進口當極端情況發生的時候我們可能面臨斷氣斷電的風險這難道不是國安難道不是國防嗎"},{"start":9483.167,"end":9512.164,"text":"我們能夠透過更新興的能源科技更穩定的電力我們能夠把台灣的國防國安做得更好同時我們也認為我們剛剛所提到的海防海巡半導體AI無人機人型機器人量子電腦區塊鏈科技等等都是能夠強化我們的國防能力"},{"start":9512.984,"end":9541.222,"text":"在未來能夠與美國有更多的交流合作然而令人遺憾的是執政黨以及行政院長至今沒有針對國防預算要如何提升到GDP的5%、7%或者10%進行完整明確的說明並且仍然將焦點局限在傳統的國安以及國防的思維"},{"start":9542.965,"end":9563.121,"text":"這次的特別條例關於國土安全的預算甚至竟然想要用限制性招標的方式來增加這樣的做法是否正確這樣的做法是否足夠答案是顯而易見的遠遠不足"},{"start":9565.253,"end":9578.168,"text":"目前行政單位對於傳統的國防以及國安過度聚焦在特定的領域我們沒有看到對於新興科技的理解"},{"start":9579.711,"end":9601.276,"text":"國防安全是一個動態演進的領域如果我們不積極的擁抱我們將難以對應日漸複雜的威脅甚至連金融都可能成為一種武器所以我們要更加的擁抱數位金融而我們沒有看到任何的說法與想法為此"},{"start":9602.176,"end":9614.664,"text":"在此代表國民黨黨團進行提案說明要求立法院通過決議儘速邀請行政院院長率同國防部長或者相關部會首長針對這個議題進行專案報告以上謝謝"},{"start":9621.687,"end":9633.332,"text":"謝謝葛如君委員的發言報告委員會我們進入大體討論每位委員發言時間三分鐘首先我們請徐巧欣委員發言林益君委員請準備"},{"start":9642.281,"end":9659.818,"text":"主席各位媒體朋友各位同仁所有關注於台灣國防的好朋友們我們今天為什麼要提出希望行政院能夠來到立法院來做專案報告那當然是因為有關於防衛台灣的議題"},{"start":9661.46,"end":9686.482,"text":"美國的國防部次長柯伯吉他談到希望包含日本跟台灣的國防預算應該要接近GDP的10%這是先前他在被提名的時候所說的話但相對於台灣日本的石破茂總理他直接說日本人的軍費多少應該由日本人決定"},{"start":9687.603,"end":9705.404,"text":"那我们想要问一个问题那台湾人的军费多少是不是也由台湾人决定那我们可以看一下目前台湾的军费国防预算占了GDP的2.4%左右是新台币6470亿"},{"start":9707.947,"end":9731.779,"text":"根據賴總統的宣示他希望把這個國防預算提升到百分之三以上那他將會是八千零四十億我們並不反對國防預算提高到百分之三以上但我們更希望在這個提升當中要注意到的是我們軍人的權益 軍人的薪資軍人的待遇 軍人的家籍 軍人的保護"},{"start":9733.601,"end":9756.324,"text":"至於川普最後希望的如果我們今天從3%到5%到8%到最終目標10%跟各位報告他一共會花的當到5%的國防預算的時候就是新台幣的1.34兆這是我們在國家的預算的非常高的比例"},{"start":9757.325,"end":9765.25,"text":"到百分之八的時候會佔預算的2.14兆到百分之十的時候會佔台灣預算的2.68兆"},{"start":9768.237,"end":9789.587,"text":"那我们今年的总预算编了将近三兆其中如果2.68兆都用在国防预算的话他对于其余的我们的社会我们的教育我们的医疗是否会产生排挤我想呢行政院都有必要到立法院里面来跟各位朋友做说明"},{"start":9790.936,"end":9812.102,"text":"尤其是去年美国的智库里面有提到的是我们在军备上面呢很多都是采买以后不断的延宕如果我们提高了国防预算但是我们采购的包含我们的F16 Block V都是在美国出产之后但延宕了到台湾"},{"start":9812.962,"end":9834.511,"text":"那付出了這麼多的經費 增加了GDP 貨卻沒有來軍人也不夠 那該如何做好國防所以我想應該讓行政院長要來立法院報告 謝謝謝謝許曉清委員的發言接下來我們請林益君委員發言 沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":9849.4,"end":9863.314,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好114年度中央政府總預算案其中國防預算編列可能就是史上最高了有介於目前兩岸的情勢緊張"},{"start":9865.436,"end":9886.918,"text":"台灣又位於印太地區的第一島鏈重要的地緣的政治地位台美雙方對於台灣需要持續提升國防預算其實都有共識台灣民眾黨是注重國家財政紀律的政黨但國防預算是保衛國家的重要支出"},{"start":9887.879,"end":9908.108,"text":"目前提升預算到GDP3%是全民的共識但是國防部連替軍人加薪都要斤斤的計較就算要買裝備要買什麼用在哪裡國防部拖到現在一句話一個字都沒有交代"},{"start":9908.968,"end":9936.056,"text":"如果要大幅提升預算的話政府應該要先公布一份公開版的國家安全戰略讓民眾知道我國處在什麼樣的戰略的環境面對怎麼樣的威脅在這種前提下軍隊要如何的打仗還有需要怎麼樣的裝備怎麼樣的編制和訓練然後才會知道具體需要多少錢"},{"start":9937.762,"end":9954.017,"text":"我還是呼籲國防部應該對於提升國防預算的幅度需要審視評估根據從台海威脅與政府財政狀況來做完整的完善的評估針對近日美國川普提出的"},{"start":9955.278,"end":9969.388,"text":"這個GDP10%國防預算這個軍備預算已經佔了GDP18已經大約是2.6兆元幾乎是我國中央政府一年的稅出針對這個問題我想行政院長應該來又會這裡向大家報告 謝謝謝謝林益菁委員的發言接下來請沈伯陽委員發言陳玉珍委員請準備"},{"start":9992.793,"end":10011.458,"text":"好 謝謝主席國民黨今天突然把這個GDP說10%的這個案子把它提到第一案很多人會覺得很奇怪為何要這樣做不是有很多你們認為重要的議程什麼反戒嚴 反廢死等等之類的為什麼要把這個放在第一案呢我來告訴大家"},{"start":10012.498,"end":10035.598,"text":"因為才十幾個小時之前美國眾議院才剛開了一個聽證會聽證會的標題是如何阻止中國入侵台灣才十幾個小時前而已 才剛開完而已而裡面會議的結論三個證人全部都在強調台灣不可能用10%的GDP來做"},{"start":10037.608,"end":10058.043,"text":"那如果這個新聞出來了,大家就知道,國民黨這個提案本身就是一個謊言啊。所以為了要怎樣呢?為了要洗掉這件事情,趕緊把這個案子提到最前面,然後製造一個假象,製造一個定調,說台灣現在要用10%的GDP去做這些軍事的改革。"},{"start":10058.888,"end":10081.797,"text":"再來,這個不斷式,這還暗示了什麼事情呢?它還故意暗示了,以後台灣只要增加了,那一定都是美國要求的。很抱歉,美方不但沒有這樣要求,台灣要怎麼去做,也是台灣自己的事情。而我們現在的政策,從以前到現在,討論的都是3%。為什麼可以突然冒出這個10%?"},{"start":10083.197,"end":10099.484,"text":"如果真的擔心台灣的國家安全,那你這個提案應該改成什麼?改成說中國要台灣以後不能夠抵抗,以後台灣生靈塗炭,請問我們該怎麼辦?請行政院來做專案報告嗎?這才是我們現在面臨的局勢不是嗎?"},{"start":10100.504,"end":10114.801,"text":"更不要講說這個提案本身還故意造成軍民的對立從頭到尾的文字就故意講說今天如果用了GDP的10%這樣的不實訊息放上去之後然後提到說這樣會有排擠的效應"},{"start":10115.842,"end":10134.621,"text":"故意去製造說只要我們今天加強我們的國防加強我們的國安那我們的人民就會受害明明會造成人民受害的是中國的入侵中國的侵略跟中國的惡意更不要講說這兩件事情不但不是相似的它應該是相輔相成的"},{"start":10135.262,"end":10151.714,"text":"各位應該也都知道中國如果要拿下台灣有可能不費一兵一卒因為他有統戰因為他有滲透因為他可以大量的讓國民黨的支持者每天都在看中國內容農場的新聞國民黨的立法委員在後面在聽中國的podcast"},{"start":10152.374,"end":10174.166,"text":"這個才是影響我們國安如果我們今天要防止滲透除了對於立委的規範之外我們對於台灣的弱勢族群怎麼去照護讓他不要被中國見縫插針這樣的一個社會安全網也是國安的預算之一故意把軍事跟人民造成對立進而提出這樣的提案我只能說是非常惡意謝謝"},{"start":10177.867,"end":10181.749,"text":"主席各位同仁大家好身為一個來自從小生活在戰地政務長大的立法委員我想"},{"start":10202.011,"end":10219.423,"text":"我們對軍人尤其是我本人對軍人的尊重絕對是從心底的尊重從小我們見到軍人就必須行敬禮軍耐民民進軍在金門是我們刻在心裡的信念也是我們一直奉行的想法"},{"start":10220.464,"end":10238.174,"text":"所以今天剛剛沈伯陽委員說這個討論這個國防預算是不是要到GDP的10%是一個要試圖挑起軍人跟民間的對立對於這一點說法我非常不能苟同"},{"start":10238.934,"end":10260.151,"text":"因為在戰時的時候 打仗的時候 軍人跟民眾是一起的也是一體的 居民是不能分開的再來 他說國民黨故意要把這個案子排到第一案是因為十幾個小時前發生一個什麼議會啊 什麼事情啊台灣不能達到10%這種說法"},{"start":10262.193,"end":10276.546,"text":"我真的很遺憾沈博洋委員本身是程序委員會的委員這個案子在星期二的程序委員會就已經排進去了更何況要要求台灣的軍備預算達到台灣的GDP的10%這個要求並不是國民黨提出來的啊這是美國現在的國防部的次長"},{"start":10288.476,"end":10315.587,"text":"柯博吉他從有關防衛台灣問題這是他表示台灣的國防預算應該接近GDP的10%難道你是說這位美國的現在的國防部已經提名通過的4月15提名通過的國防部次長柯博吉先生說的是謊言嗎你是在我們的中華民國的國會殿堂公開批評美國的國防部次長嗎大家都知道"},{"start":10319.423,"end":10332.608,"text":"武力的武這個字 指戈為武對一個國家來講 對全民來講我們要有很強大的軍事力量 軍事防備不是只有武器"},{"start":10334.329,"end":10354.997,"text":"要打仗到最後一步的時候我們應該都要以民為念從賴總統3月13號宣布賴17條以來還有前天接受日本這個新聞的這個訪問他竟然說他說了國人要有最好的準備最壞的打算其實意思就是說我們要準備打仗"},{"start":10355.777,"end":10376.248,"text":"如果總統真的覺得我們離戰爭已經非常的近了就必須很公開的不只是軍備的部分不只是預算的部分最重要是民防的準備也要準備所以我覺得我們需要請行政院長好好的來這裡報告到底我們政府的打算是怎麼樣用多少錢什麼時候準備打仗"},{"start":10381.105,"end":10406.932,"text":"謝謝陳玉珍委員發言接下來我們請登記最後一位王定宇委員請發言各位同仁今天我們看到這個提案要討論美國要求我們增加GDP10%的國防預算這件事情"},{"start":10408.308,"end":10430.176,"text":"如果我們的同仁夠用功,夠認真,會Google,就會發現這個議題的設定是假議題。為什麼呢?第一個,小錯誤而已,科博級不是準,它在四月初就已經通過任命了。第二個,10% GDP的預算,這個10%從哪裡出現的?"},{"start":10433.24,"end":10459.213,"text":"第一次出現Kobe投書台北Times在2024年5月11號裡面點出台灣國防預算佔比2.5%不足應該要5%後面加了一句話說那如果很重要的話Why not為什麼不10%10%是這樣來的當時他是民間人士當時他是用投書的方式"},{"start":10460.233,"end":10478.02,"text":"第二次出現是在二零二五年三月四號當時柯博吉擔任國務院副國務卿正式在眾議院外交委員會作證提到的數字是五趴也沒有提到十趴"},{"start":10479.11,"end":10497.131,"text":"今天稍早幾個小時前美國眾議院對中特別委員會開會裡面就已經指出不應該要求台灣的國防預算佔GDP的10%甚至於認為台灣的經濟量體很大不應該用%數來討論我們的態度是什麼"},{"start":10500.214,"end":10524.408,"text":"我們國家的態度就是我們國家的安全我們自己應該要投資我們應該要重視不管是不對稱戰力或者是對於防衛任性我們都願意加大投資跟美方在談不管相關的軍事服務軍售的時候我們會就我們的需求來提出而美方就他的立場來討論"},{"start":10526.636,"end":10549.613,"text":"我們的國家的國防預算我們國家自己決定不是任何國家來指定所以如果美國一個官員在民間報社投書提到10%或者私下談話提到10%我們國會就要列案在這裡進行討論的話讓行政黨報告的話那麼我們這一次訪美"},{"start":10551.226,"end":10569.31,"text":"防美團在場的也有國民黨的委員副院長都在美國的國務院 美國的國安會 美國的國防部特別關切在野黨阻擋國防預算難道不應該列案美國參議院 Dan Sullivan在軍事委員會聽證的時候點名國民黨三減動預算這是玩危險的遊戲難道不應該列案報告這都不應該"},{"start":10575.811,"end":10581.513,"text":"因為那是我們自己國家的事情所以我建議把這個案子暫緩那如果國民黨的同仁"},{"start":10601.223,"end":10629.371,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝王定宇委員的發言報議院會現有國民黨黨團提進付二讀請問院會有異議沒有異議本案進付二讀依照立法院職權刑事法第74條之一規定交付黨團協商我們現在做一下決議本案交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集報議院會我們進入討論事項第二案本院吳宗憲委員"},{"start":10630.765,"end":10656.778,"text":"您具公投提案主人為您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決政策請公決案本案經第三會期第六次會議決議交付黨團協商並由國民黨黨團負責召集協商抱怨會本案因協商已經超過一個月沒有辦法達成共識我們依照立法院職權刑事法第七十一條之一規定"},{"start":10657.645,"end":10671.896,"text":"由院會定期處理因此與本次會議提出討論我們現在依照登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先請莊瑞雄委員發言鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":10691.664,"end":10719.033,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們在場的同仁死刑是國家對於個人最嚴厲的一個處罰是一條人命那如果錯了他就沒有回頭路各位可以去想一想過去最愛死刑的政黨其實就是中國國民黨最愛拿死刑來恫嚇人民的也是中國國民黨"},{"start":10720.202,"end":10735.392,"text":"可是呢 台灣民主化已經三十年了已經超過三十年了如果說一個判決連法官都還有疑慮的話那就代表是不是證據還沒有夠充分"},{"start":10736.323,"end":10760.878,"text":"是不是案情還有需要再斟酌的一個地方在這種情況之下你都叫法官輕率的讓他死刑確定讓國家機器動用這樣的一個刑法其實還是值得我們立法院好好再來考慮死刑不是不能支持我們現刑法裡面就有好多的死刑都還存在"},{"start":10761.818,"end":10787.39,"text":"所以國民黨的朋友其實也不用去刻意地用政治上的議題來鼓動民眾的一個情緒不管是在我們刑法裡面或者說我們一些特別法比如說民用航空法這一些死刑都還存在那現在爭執的是說如果一個審判按照憲法法庭所揭示的他必須要法官的一字決這代表是一種慎重"},{"start":10789.318,"end":10807.579,"text":"我們也更期待我們朝野的政黨給法官更寬裕的一個空間不要用情緒去挑起民粹用政治上的一個攻防去干擾整個司法的一個運作守住人權"},{"start":10809.434,"end":10829.193,"text":"才是整個立法院該去做的事情而不是去滿足社會上民粹的一個情緒這個不是讓我們司法得到更公平或者說讓人民信賴的一條路各位去看看歷史曾經給我們過教訓"},{"start":10832.176,"end":10834.398,"text":"1949年國民黨推的懲治判斷條例唯一死刑連過去在1956年大法官4至68號到1970年更誇張的2號解釋"},{"start":10848.024,"end":10875.906,"text":"這一些啊讓我們這個國家台灣走了幾十年才把它撥亂反正過來中國國民黨你不可以輸掉了整個憲法法庭的一個解釋以後你重新再走回頭路利用公投這樣的一個方式啊我覺得中國國民黨的朋友啊好好的去善思啊不要連憲法法庭做出的解釋啊你都不把"},{"start":10883.455,"end":10906.295,"text":"謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備主席在場委員先進今天國民黨的委員提出了一個反廢死公投"},{"start":10907.324,"end":10924.879,"text":"刑法有沒有廢死?大法官憲判有廢死嗎?根據吳宗憲委員的提案說明,他說一三憲判八字號,雖宣告死刑為有條件核憲,憲判就死刑核憲啊,那今天到底要反廢死是要反哪一個的?"},{"start":10925.939,"end":10949.573,"text":"說到這個不禁想到之前大法官也有一個解釋引起國人的注意就是釋字第七四八號這在2017年的時候大法官透過憲法解釋說民法未使相同性別兩人得經營共同生活之目的與憲法第22條保障婚姻自由與第7條保障人民平等權一直有違"},{"start":10950.794,"end":10974.36,"text":"那麼要在兩年內請立法院去修改至於用什麼方式來達成婚姻自由的平衡保障由立法權來決定之結果在大法官解釋婚姻平權之後婚姻同性婚姻平權之後呢立法院之外國民黨發動了三個公投其中一個說你是否同意民法婚姻規定應現在一男一女的結合"},{"start":10975.575,"end":11004.757,"text":"公投通過了沒 通過了你是我同意以婚姻規定以外之其他形式來保障同性別二人經營共同永久生活之權益通過了沒 通過了大衛周章搞了一個反對同性婚姻的公投之後結果呢結果行政院訂定了一個司法院釋字第78號解釋施刑法裡面保障了用這個法律保障了婚姻平權"},{"start":11007.122,"end":11024.81,"text":"時間過去了 八年的時間 台灣社會經歷了公投 台灣社會經歷了立法院的修法台灣社會經歷了立法院重新訂立的釋制第七十八號 釋行法不同的性別 相同的性別 在婚姻的關係上 同樣的平等"},{"start":11026.219,"end":11053.085,"text":"請問大會桌上的結果國民黨發動這個公投你們的目的在哪裡社會被你們搞得烏煙瘴氣結果呢今天大法官在我們的憲判九字號怎麼說他說法院組織法六組文第一條為明定殷晉何以廷法官一致絕食的刻竹死刑與憲法保障人民生命權和正當法律程序有違要立法院在兩年內來完成很清楚啊"},{"start":11054.127,"end":11054.929,"text":"就像國民黨說的啊憲法"},{"start":11057.623,"end":11085.645,"text":"憲判說的還是死刑核憲但是立法院要施定法律立法院捨自己的立法權不由卻來指摘法院卻來指摘大法官就像我們看到憲法訴訟法第五條就明定憲法訴訟法本身的審理規則是司法權專有結果國民黨藍白多數亂修一通現在捨自己的立法權不由要發動全民公投何其荒謬全民何其無掛我們堅決反對"},{"start":11091.399,"end":11096.345,"text":"謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言接下來請沈伯陽委員發言 王逸川委員請準備好 謝謝主席齁 那這個"},{"start":11107.789,"end":11131.625,"text":"各位委員我覺得這一個名稱雖然叫做反廢死公投但是在國民黨的角度我覺得應該把它叫做反憲法公投簡單來講國民黨就是要告訴大家這個憲法的任何的一些權力分立的原則國民黨沒有想要遵守這個從去年開始一直到現在國民黨都一直依照這個路徑在立法院活動"},{"start":11132.546,"end":11146.493,"text":"第一個他先通過了國會濫權他想要讓立法權可以凌駕到行政權的身上所以呢他可以想要把誰叫來問話就問話然後用藐視國會罪相繩而這個呢已經被大法官宣告違憲"},{"start":11147.754,"end":11177.214,"text":"後來他們把腦袋動到監察院的身上把監察院的預算幹掉把監察院裡面的辦法提出認為監察院全部都要來聽立法院的話接下來他們又把他們的腦筋動到司法的身上最有名的就是當今天司法在追溯國民黨的偽造文書在追溯國民黨的犯罪的時候結果現在是用包圍法院的方式去對我們的這個司法體系施壓"},{"start":11178.295,"end":11195.368,"text":"而一直到現在他們更進一步呢要再去弱化我們司法院的一個權力從而廢除了憲法法庭讓憲法法庭沒有辦法實質的運作只能受理跟不受理相關的案件而到今天提出這個公投案他是說什麼"},{"start":11196.289,"end":11214.876,"text":"因為憲法法庭已經對於死刑核限一事做出了決定結果呢我們的立法院不但不想要遵守這個決定還要把這件事情來交付公投想要告訴全國的民眾很抱歉今天憲法法庭講什麼都不算數"},{"start":11215.916,"end":11230.202,"text":"所以今天憲法法庭應該要被廢掉今天憲法法庭說國會濫權是違憲那是他的問題憲法法庭說死刑核憲那也是他的問題那國民黨不就是在反對憲法嗎他就是在反對司法的存在"},{"start":11230.942,"end":11252.508,"text":"台灣的民主化走到今天,為什麼能夠民主不斷的深化?就是因為司法能夠獨立,就是因為司法能夠進行它的全能。但是國民黨違背了最重要的權力分立的原則,它凌駕了行政,它凌駕了監察,甚至還有國家安全戰略法,以及上一個公投案的反戒嚴。"},{"start":11253.588,"end":11270.695,"text":"國家安全按照公投法第16項這是總統的權利應該是總統交付公投怎麼會是立法院交付公投呢所以他也開始凌駕了總統的權利讓他想要架空行政架空監察架空總統到現在想要架空這個國家的司法"},{"start":11271.135,"end":11285.098,"text":"我必須告訴全國的民眾像這樣的立法委員根本就不應該留在立法院因為他會破壞從1949年到現在台灣人民努力建立起來的民主制度大罷免 大成功 謝謝"},{"start":11288.823,"end":11302.631,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言報告委員會現在來我們一層二樓旁邊是遠自屏東來的我們希望兒童合唱團他們七月份要去歐洲比賽我們熱烈掌聲歡迎你們來立法院從屏東來的好"},{"start":11322.318,"end":11346.059,"text":"好谢谢祝福祝福你们7月份在欧洲好祝福好"},{"start":11358.808,"end":11370.356,"text":"謝謝伊拉開會囉好請坐好歡迎祝福你們7月份在歐洲可以得到最好的成績回台灣歡迎你們來立法院請坐現在我們接下來請王逸川委員發言黃婕委員請準備好可愛"},{"start":11378.806,"end":11385.539,"text":"好 主席 各位委員像這個這麼悅耳的聲音 李焕宜聽這個又逼聽這個國民黨拿一些有的沒的才有意義"},{"start":11390.615,"end":11409.613,"text":"國民黨創創這個什麼反廢時公投你想要罵民進黨對私刑的態度,那還不好啦1月16日就怕我親一個娘,你們就要說說雖然親一個,可是沒辦法解除你們的質疑要大調是怎樣?不是又怕沒衛生,你們當初創這個公投不知道你們要創什麼"},{"start":11415.779,"end":11424.167,"text":"你就是看大罷免大成功看得到北韋長 叫這個罷免這個這個公投 都要淋淋酒的啊你實在是在亂說淋淋酒的 你就想要選團 我教你怎麼選團進去 不管看得到公投的 看得到要罷免的 都要投 贊成 這樣啦"},{"start":11436.178,"end":11448.305,"text":"都跟他同意,這樣你告訴我什麼?你把那個公投叫做,如果真的有辦公投,就算是要罷免你,你去的政客,去的社區裡面,就跟這裡的大家說,說進去,那個罷免的也同意,啊,公投的也同意,你實在是有狗狗的,帝國還不可以用,啊,這個投票也不知道要怎麼說,像你如果說,欸,這邊如果中央國民黨要罷免,不同意!"},{"start":11464.253,"end":11488.489,"text":"如果要公投的要同意,這樣會廢棄整集都說同意,這樣事情就改變了連翁都不想用我會去找跟大神保養說,你來時代是沒資格跟老大有關係這條,建議你們撤回帝母庭寫寫一個大家再調回不然這個庭頭,這都是你輸的東西這都是你輸的東西亂衝一趟,臨崗會去找死的啦可憐啦"},{"start":11496.087,"end":11502.236,"text":"好 谢谢王一川委员发言接下来请黄杰委员发言李博弈委员请准备"},{"start":11522.199,"end":11538.927,"text":"好謝謝各位同仁我要告訴大家國民黨提這個反廢死公投其實就是他們非常懦弱投機而且怕罷免再說一次國民黨提這個反廢死公投就是因為他們懦弱投機而且怕罷免"},{"start":11540.468,"end":11560.905,"text":"記得在國民黨2018跟2021的時候其實都有提過公投當時他們都還願意動員支持者來進行相關的連署結果四年之後他們現在再次提公投在朱立倫的帶領之下卻淪落到只敢投機取巧叫立法委員不修法然後提出公投案"},{"start":11561.605,"end":11579.44,"text":"然後懦弱到連三四十萬的人次的動員都不敢嘗試這就是國民黨的懦弱再來他們自稱這個是反廢死公投但是其實提案的主文是說您是否同意各級法院和議庭的法官判處死刑不需一決制的政策"},{"start":11580.16,"end":11606.756,"text":"大家看清楚喔這個主文是在講說人民投票決定各級法院在評議這個判處被告死刑的時候何怡婷的法官的意見要不要完全一致請問這個內容跟你是不是支持死刑或反對死刑到底有什麼關係所以這就是文不對題啊所以最後不論這個公投的結果到底有沒有通過都不會形成有無廢除死刑的任何的法律效果"},{"start":11608.017,"end":11624.231,"text":"所以國民黨現在提這個是否以自決的一個程序問題把它包裝成反Face公投這就是一場幽靈公投這根本就是把人民當白痴爽再來最重要的問題就是台灣根本就沒有Face"},{"start":11624.591,"end":11653.322,"text":"何來的廢死公投呢台灣到目前為止都還有死刑大法官釋憲的時候也不斷的說明死刑何限啊死刑何限啊甚至今年一月都還有執行死刑耶連國民黨自己前陣子不久不是都還在講說要提案虐童唯一死刑嗎這個就恰恰證明了台灣一直都是有死刑的啊那我不知道說國民黨現在反廢死到底是在反幾點的啊"},{"start":11654.505,"end":11669.552,"text":"所以最後我要告訴大家其實中選會也講得很清楚公投法裡面也寫得很清楚公投案的提出必須要是創制或是覆決那請問國民黨提的這個主文到底是創制還是覆決"},{"start":11670.692,"end":11684.802,"text":"都不是所以很簡單國民黨提出這個公投案只是希望說藉此來操作民粹希望掩耳盜鈴希望到時候可以動員支持者出來投票因為他們怕罷免"},{"start":11686.303,"end":11700.333,"text":"那很顯然就我剛剛以上的說明這個反廢死的公投實質上跟有無廢除死刑的內容一點關係都沒有所以很簡單這麼不適任亂提案的立法委員把他們罷免好謝謝黃婕委員發言接下來請李博義委員發言陳培宇委員請準備"},{"start":11718.527,"end":11732.189,"text":"好 謝謝首先還是很認真的對於國民黨這一次提出來的公投的主文內容是寫你是否同意各級法院何義廷法官判處死刑不須一字決的政策"},{"start":11733.393,"end":11754.278,"text":"反死刑公投其實這個就是針對我們憲判第八號的反制那就是說依照公投但是依照公投法實施的公投公投的內容他其實不能抵觸憲法當然也不能抵觸憲法的這些解釋跟判決但是藍白如果一致決的"},{"start":11757.321,"end":11766.189,"text":"以自覺死刑是違憲的其實藍白應該照法律上來講應該用立委的身份再去申請釋憲啊"},{"start":11769.38,"end":11792.247,"text":"我們大家都忘記了因為藍白全面杯葛大法官的人士同意權所以他們也無從申請釋憲如同剛剛其他委員講的藍白中國國民黨跟台灣民眾黨沒有要把台灣的憲法當做一回事我來大家帶大家複習一下去年一整年立法院發生的事情"},{"start":11793.007,"end":11820.684,"text":"他們把國會擴權法案包裝成國會改革法案想要騙但是被我們憲法法庭在6月21號的時候否決了認為這個是違憲馬上國民黨又提出憲法訴訟法的修法要毀掉這個憲法法庭在1月10號的附議案又被否決了"},{"start":11823.78,"end":11839.957,"text":"現在這個反廢死的公投案其實一樣他是用反廢死來包裝即將要發生的8月23號希望用這個反廢死的議題來包裝他們即將要被罷免"},{"start":11840.698,"end":11856.087,"text":"希望用這個反Face的這個假的議題來包裝不要被罷免所以在這邊還是要很認真的提出來其實台灣有沒有此行 有法務部在今年1月16號對黃凱琳執行槍決這黃凱琳是殺害一對母女"},{"start":11862.045,"end":11887.536,"text":"那經過第八字號判決以後台灣各級法院有沒有做出死刑的判決?有在高雄地方法院2025年3月10號對於殺害兩個父母的無性男子也提出了死刑判決台灣有沒有死刑?有台灣有沒有執行死刑?有國民黨想要做什麼?想要騙"},{"start":11888.416,"end":11902.224,"text":"他就是想要騙台灣人民利用這一個包裝的假公投來掩飾他們即將被罷免還是一個結論種種毀線亂象必須要大罷免大成功"},{"start":11915.967,"end":11932.266,"text":"好 謝謝主席雖然時間只有三分鐘可是我要再次強調目前在我左手邊國民黨團只有王宏威委員還有葛如君委員出席基本上提出這個公投提案的黨團卻不出席不發言我想大家可以看得出來他們有多麼害怕罷免"},{"start":11933.067,"end":11941.971,"text":"因為他們知道自己在推的是詐騙公投他們也知道自己在推的是空殼公投我想我要再次強調因為我們會繼續論述繼續主張但是他們會繼續詐騙繼續空殼因為他們知道自己要被罷免了他們希望可以混淆人民"},{"start":11951.175,"end":11978.209,"text":"可以製造錯誤的視聽我要再次強調台灣目前並沒有廢除死刑也沒有藍白所謂虛構的實質廢死的說法我們來看憲判第八號但是雖然國民黨有很多自己標榜自己是法學專家但是他可能不願意去看別人的見解不願意去聽別人的聲音憲判第八號裡面有說死刑在目前是有條件核限所謂的有條件就是指"},{"start":11978.689,"end":11998.494,"text":"程序必須慎重確保作為終極手段的死刑不會被濫用如果按照今天的提案邏輯來看難道國民黨團你們認為死刑可以不用慎重嗎死刑作為終極手段可以不用清清楚楚仔細的討論嗎你們認為以自決這件事情是不可以的嗎我知道為什麼了"},{"start":12004.116,"end":12033.315,"text":"因為過往的國民黨在台灣戒嚴時期恐怖時期白恐時期你們看到不爽讓你們不爽的人你們要殺就殺要關就關要限制他們的自由就限制他們的自由這就是國民黨的威權邏輯這就是國民黨的邏輯所以他現在不管人權不管程序不好好討論不在乎邏輯更不在意民意推出這樣的公投"},{"start":12033.735,"end":12055.68,"text":"我大概也可以理解其來有自這就是國民黨的歷史這就是國民黨荒謬的傳統而現在他們要把這個荒謬的傳統繼續詐騙台灣人民所以我要說國民黨這一次提出的公投提案不是對司法的關心而是再一次把民意當工具把人民對他們的信任"},{"start":12056.46,"end":12080.771,"text":"還剩下少少的信任當成政治提款機再一次不願意去關心制度不願意討論修法不願意去想像一個更美好的未來而只要用一個詐騙空殼公投來欺騙人民如果國民黨現在在國會多數你們真的在意這些事情你們可以做的事情是教育的改革是社會安全網的加強"},{"start":12081.451,"end":12097.54,"text":"是司法制度的討論但這些你們都不談你們也不做你們想要發錢你們想要詐騙人民所以所有委員剛剛已經說了只有六個字可以解決現在荒謬的國會跟我一起喊大罷免大成功謝謝好 謝謝陳培宇委員發言接下來蘇巧慧委員發言沈發慧委員請準備"},{"start":12116.835,"end":12138.127,"text":"主席各位同仁我們現在要討論的是本月委員吳宗憲等52人拟據公投提案主文他是你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決之政策請公決案是的就如同我的同仁民進黨的委員們所指"},{"start":12139.107,"end":12165.988,"text":"現在在場的國民黨委員一共只有王宏威委員和葛如居委員兩位其他的這些共同提案委員都不在現場本席要提醒各位這一案根本不能簡稱為反廢死因為第一台灣沒有廢死 何來廢死公投大法官已經說死刑核限而且死刑的嚇阻功能為我國人民之法感情所支持"},{"start":12166.869,"end":12191.815,"text":"第二 這一案的題目內容更是和支持或反對死刑毫無關係因為這一案現在的提案主文各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須以自決在人民投票決定之後不管公投最後的結果 投票結果是通過還是不通過都不會形成廢除死刑或不廢除死刑的效果"},{"start":12192.555,"end":12206.967,"text":"所以如果說這個提案是反廢死公投要不就是國民黨刻意欺騙誤導人民要不然就是國民黨再一次展現他立法品質低落的最佳證明"},{"start":12208.462,"end":12228.538,"text":"遵守憲法對多數人民政府機關都是最基本的常識但是對部分立法委員來說卻好像難如登天公投提案主文的各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須以自決這個在113年憲判自第八號大法官所作出的判決完全相反"},{"start":12229.238,"end":12255.651,"text":"大法官對死刑核限所作出的憲法解釋是大法官對於憲法保障人民生命權的剝奪所要求的正當法律程序而根據公投法公投的類型可以分為法律的覆決立法原則的創制以及重大政策之覆決與創制請問現在你到底是在對哪一種類型提出公投"},{"start":12256.391,"end":12278.493,"text":"如果是立法行政政策的話那麼這是可以提出的嗎這一屆的立法院就像藍白擴權法案時不斷透過逾越立法院憲法職權範圍毀憲亂政蔑視權力分立的法治國原則藍白擴權的時候就是想要侵蝕行政部門的權力所以"},{"start":12279.113,"end":12292.777,"text":"只要讓國民黨掌握立法院多數他們就能夠搗亂整個國家連權力分立都不會分所以這一次的這個公投絕對是欺騙人民的公投我們當然反對好 謝謝蘇巧慧委員發言接下來我們請沈發慧委員發言吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":12318.445,"end":12331.056,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我要在這裡首先要告訴大家請大家不要再講反廢死公投了因為國民黨所提出來的公投案並不是反廢死公投"},{"start":12332.179,"end":12348.728,"text":"他們一開始他們號稱要提出反廢死公投結果被整個社會輿論績效說現在都沒有死刑也沒有相關廢死的法案在立法院你提這個反廢死公投就跟提說要禁止外星人跟台灣人結婚一樣它是一個平行時空完全不存在的議題"},{"start":12350.217,"end":12371.082,"text":"結果被笑了之後他們就趕快改他們在抑制他們趕快改 改什麼他們現在沒有說要反廢死了他們現在說反對這個死刑判決應該要一致決這個是大法官會這個是這個憲法法庭憲判第八號所做出的解釋但他們也知道這個"},{"start":12373.487,"end":12390.45,"text":"所以這個不是反被死公投這個應該我們怎麼樣定義它就是國民黨反對嚴謹的判決死刑的公投國民黨反對說判死刑要嚴謹他們認為可以輕率的判死刑這就是國民黨這個公投案的真正主張"},{"start":12391.929,"end":12420.529,"text":"所以我們也可以提出他可以提出說反對這個法院一定要一次決裁判死刑那我們也可以提出一個說那我們這個是否贊成你是否贊成三個法官裡面只要有一個說要判死刑就可以判死刑我們也可以提出說只要媒體報導有人贊成判死刑這個人就判死刑就是你針對判死刑的嚴謹與否他的程序國民黨要進行公投這就是他意旨上面最荒謬的地方"},{"start":12421.735,"end":12433.254,"text":"第二個就是他的這個公投主文他的公投主文說根據公投法第二條第二項他們提出這個公投案而且他們也知道"},{"start":12434.585,"end":12450.832,"text":"他們也知道說這個大法官這個憲法法院判決是不能拿來公投的所以他們在後面偷加了兩個字說你是否贊成這個政策他們加了政策兩個字為什麼就是因為公投法裡面有提到"},{"start":12451.872,"end":12473.125,"text":"第二條第二項提到說能夠作為公投的這個課題只有第一法律案的覆決這顯然不是法律案的覆決第二立法原則的創制這個也不是立法原則的創制所以他們只好用第三款這是什麼重大政策的創制覆決所以他再加了政策兩個字但是各位"},{"start":12474.652,"end":12503.135,"text":"這個死刑判決必須要這個法院法官一致決這個不是政策耶這個是憲法法院的判決這是與憲法同等效力的所以他們不管在議址上面荒謬在這個主文上面違法更重要的他們在程序上面亂證直接提進婦公投掏空立法程序要在今天用多數暴力表決解決辦法只有一個就是罷免國民黨的立委"},{"start":12507.145,"end":12519.392,"text":"好 謝謝審發會委員的發言抱怨會現在在我們一場二樓旁聽的遠從台中霧峰分局的顧問團朋友我們掌聲歡迎好 接下來我們請吳思瑤委員請發言"},{"start":12525.254,"end":12548.346,"text":"主席各位同仁大家辛苦了我想來舉幾個例子大家來看看這樣的題目能不能夠作為公投的題目第一題請問你是否同意台灣各政黨的負責人不應當率眾違法包圍司法機關不應當發動民粹來鬥臭司法公然妨礙司法公正"},{"start":12549.346,"end":12565.564,"text":"再來一題,請問你是否同意各個政黨應當具備正確的人權意識以及正確的史觀,不應當誤用濫用納粹等獨裁威權的符號,消費他國的歷史事件,嚴重損及台灣國際形象?"},{"start":12568.806,"end":12582.017,"text":"最後一題請問你是否同意國會議長應當謹言慎行不宜發表歧視性的言論物化女性傷害國會形象"},{"start":12583.496,"end":12598.177,"text":"我舉了三個簡單的題目這樣的建議案如果納為公投的題目即使它再有社會正當性依舊不能夠成為公投議案的標的為什麼"},{"start":12600.16,"end":12619.37,"text":"很清楚的公投法的規定任何的提案需要來具備法的明確性更重要的是公投法所規範立委所發動的公投最基本的法定要件就是要符合政策的創制或覆決"},{"start":12621.391,"end":12642.239,"text":"我剛剛舉的三個例子 社會都很有共感但是因為它並不符合公投法的重大政策的創自及覆決所以立委不能拿來成為公投的題目所以同理可證 台灣沒有廢死"},{"start":12643.527,"end":12659.936,"text":"大法官的宣告死刑是合憲的在野黨的委員到底是法盲還是文盲我更要說舉辦一次公投要花費的經費至少是9億起跳"},{"start":12661.226,"end":12682.891,"text":"每增加一個議題就要再新增1.5億的公帑如果議題是合理正當而且合法當花則花但拿不存在的議題來做政治操作這就是浪費公帑耗費社會的資源"},{"start":12684.251,"end":12708.131,"text":"國民黨民眾黨提的兩個公投文不對題語焉不詳公投綁罷免就是因為他們怕罷免我要再一次說不要拿珍貴的憲法賦權來當政黨的遮羞布不要拿神聖的公民投票來當國民黨怕罷免的救生圈民進黨反對這樣的公投"},{"start":12712.527,"end":12725.058,"text":"谢谢吴思瑶委员的发言报应会我们上午的会议进行到此为止下午两点三十分继续开会进行后续的广泛讨论之委员的发言我们现在休息"},{"start":13477.369,"end":13478.114,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":14306.227,"end":14306.903,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":14954.879,"end":14955.742,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":15253.486,"end":15253.568,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":16555.052,"end":16556.254,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":21581.245,"end":21590.583,"text":"我們繼續開會現在接下來進行廣泛討論首先請林楚英委員發言陳婷菲委員請準備"},{"start":21604.182,"end":21627.729,"text":"謝謝主席與大院同仁國民黨所提的公投它的題目是是否同意各級法院判處死刑不需要一致的公投其實這樣的公投題目說穿了就是一個操弄民意混淆視聽的文字遊戲就如同今天上午民進黨多位委員發言所說的它就是一個詐騙公投造假公投為什麼會這麼說呢"},{"start":21629.409,"end":21653.802,"text":"國民黨現在是立法院的多數搭配了民眾黨之後全國國人都非常清楚只要透過修法沒有國民黨過不了的但是為什麼他們不透過修法呢那就是因為如果國民黨真的要廢死台灣真的以他們要反廢死台灣真的就是已經廢死形同存在的時候他們隨便修一個法令就可以啦"},{"start":21654.662,"end":21680.088,"text":"但是就是因為沒有法令可以修台灣實質上的就是目前的法令就是還可以判處死刑啊就是因為這樣所以國民黨現在反過來用了一個充滿了文字遊戲的公投國民黨的司馬昭之心就是想要透過公投來反罷免詭計被揭穿了現在乾脆就來跟大家玩起公投的文字遊戲"},{"start":21681.348,"end":21707.692,"text":"但是這些東西他們自己能講清楚嗎他們不能講清楚就創造一個假公投而在這個假公投的過程當中其實就是只是怕被罷免可是說穿了公投過去國民黨都至少會拿到街上跟大家來做連署可是這一陣子以來從國民黨要發起罷免民進黨的立委就可以看到充斥著造假連署跟死人連署"},{"start":21708.652,"end":21726.544,"text":"時間再往前推盧秀燕台中市長盧秀燕當年所提出來的反公屋空投根據中選會的數據在49萬多人當中不符合被剔除的高達182848人也就是說不合格率高達36.8%所以國民黨怕了"},{"start":21731.787,"end":21752.162,"text":"國民黨不敢把公投的連署的題目拿到街上接受民眾的檢驗所以就選擇在今天用壓霸的方式要用國會多數的方式直接霸凌壓霸過關這樣一個假公投這樣一個不存在的公投"},{"start":21752.982,"end":21781.064,"text":"國民黨因為害怕再度出現死人連署所以乾脆使用多數暴力但是人民的眼睛是雪亮的不管國民黨現在是文學素養太差還是國民黨決定用公投的方式要來霸凌在憲法法庭之上只要你玩文字遊戲這些民眾都會一眼看穿這都是一個憲政鬧劇也是一個政治鬧劇終結鬧劇只有一個方法那就是"},{"start":21781.704,"end":21802.058,"text":"大罷免大成功罷免這些只想用多數霸凌的國民黨立委好謝謝林楚英委員的發言接下來請陳廷飛委員發言莊瑞龍委員請準備賴瑞龍委員請準備非常抱歉賴委員非常非常抱歉謝謝"},{"start":21808.444,"end":21831.559,"text":"我從這27年到今天在這裡 我無法來解釋 也無法來跟大家報告說我們現在如何去反一個根本不存在的東西說要反Face 請問台灣Face了嗎"},{"start":21833.534,"end":21862.003,"text":"說要反廢死請問我們有把我們的死刑把它修法把它廢止掉了嗎完全沒有我不知道國民黨用這樣的議題做政治操作在混淆視聽尤其這一次的公投是由立法院發動立法院知法玩法"},{"start":21863.22,"end":21882.154,"text":"把一個完全就不存在的一個事實居然說我們要來反請問要怎麼反尤其國民黨只不過說在政治操弄在處理我們"},{"start":21883.208,"end":21907.201,"text":"固定在雙我們的整個公投的一個投票當中就是在今年8月的最後一個禮拜第四個禮拜就在這樣的一個前提之下為了公投而公投因為關鍵就是5月25號如果5月25號我們沒有辦法"},{"start":21909.471,"end":21928.107,"text":"在立法院把他送出那麼國民黨的軌跡就沒有辦法執行了逼著我們在今天在下個禮拜要趕快把這樣子不存在的一個公投要反的公投要把他送出"},{"start":21929.858,"end":21957.597,"text":"我都覺得身為立法委員身為立法機關今天在這裡我覺得無奈又可笑而且這個無奈又可笑是因為國民黨在做政治操作在欺騙人民他用一個大法官憲法法庭所做的一個視線就說我們實質廢死"},{"start":21959.518,"end":21977.541,"text":"根本就是在欺騙人民的情感 嘲弄人民的情感我要告訴國民黨 到目前為止 台灣沒有廢死到目前為止 我們沒有修法去處理任何一條廢死的條例"},{"start":21978.642,"end":22003.977,"text":"所以拜托国民党不要再操弄人民内心的感触也不要让我们以为国民党真的已经跟我们所有的法背离太远了谢谢陈廷飞委员接下来我们请赖瑞龙委员发言对不起赖委员我刚刚记成双瑞熊对不起对不起对不起请张亚林委员请准备"},{"start":22009.093,"end":22034.59,"text":"抱歉抱歉主席 各位委員在野黨一直在說大法官的憲法判決讓台灣實質廢死但事實上台灣並沒有廢除死刑在今年1月16號才執行的一個死刑犯所以這是個假議題包括連今天的提案吳宗憲委員的裡面自己也提到了今年1月16才剛執行了一個死刑"},{"start":22035.43,"end":22060.452,"text":"那所以說但是藍白為什麼在這個時間點要發起這樣的公投他明顯是具有政治目的他試圖要影響民團所發起的大罷免但是司法不是民粹的一個附庸法律也不應該迎合這樣的一個表演我們堅持憲政的體制應該受到尊重司法的獨立必須要捍衛國民黨這個公投提案真正的目的其實在干擾大罷免的進行"},{"start":22061.192,"end":22070.242,"text":"然後國民黨現在仍然不願意面對大罷免真正的原因大罷免真正的原因是過去這一年半來藍白兩黨迴憲亂政從國會擴權法案當連人民"},{"start":22076.489,"end":22104.75,"text":"不到立法院來你都可以強制每個人一次罰十萬罰到他來為止這明顯的擴權違憲但是藍白執意表決通過而通過了之後大法官會議判定違憲之後然後藍白再聯手把大法官會議給癱瘓掉讓憲法法庭整個癱瘓掉然後也強行修財政收入劃分法把3753億的財源拿走拿去怎麼使用也不講清楚"},{"start":22105.79,"end":22121.218,"text":"這些都引發了民怒包括在審查總預算的時候用最短的時間半小時內提出了四張的黑箱最高版本然後強行的表決通過連表決內容是什麼怎麼算都不清楚也都不知道狀況下就被表決通過"},{"start":22122.038,"end":22148.541,"text":"這就是去年一整年的國會亂象人民的不滿而這也是導致民團發起大罷免的真正原因而國民黨藍白不思去解決面對這些大罷免的真正原因而試圖採用公投來干擾罷免的進行我們認為是不會成功的如果國民黨不反省持續來做這些動作包括現在為了要反制這個民團發起的罷免還推動了自己的一個罷免結果"},{"start":22150.002,"end":22165.812,"text":"要這樣推動罷免卻又不好好的連署不認真連署然後呢抄黨員名冊抄到了許多死亡連署造假連署偽造文書的問題甚至於有許多的黨工被收押現在還有可能形成是一個組織性的犯罪"},{"start":22166.292,"end":22187.834,"text":"朱立倫恐怕也深陷其中我們認為這都是國民黨不認錯不改過不面對問題的根本原因所以我們要再次呼籲藍白兩黨不要想要玩弄公投如果不正是大罷免的原因的話想要透過公投來干擾大罷免的進行這是不會有成效的我們反對這樣假議題的一個公投大罷免大成功謝謝"},{"start":22191.132,"end":22194.514,"text":"各位立委同仁以及我們線上看直播的公民朋友"},{"start":22212.486,"end":22236.821,"text":"我在此堅決的反對這項公投提案因為這根本是一個被硬拗出來的假議題這是一個假議題為什麼我這麼說呢我們從三點來說明第一件事情成如許多委員都一直一再的強調台灣現在就有死刑而且法院也會判所以這項提案根本不是"},{"start":22237.481,"end":22251.706,"text":"要不要死刑而是國民黨在搞政治操作他們拿一個這麼嚴肅牽涉人命的一個司法議題來轉移焦點只是因為自己害怕被罷免就想操作死刑議題來自保"},{"start":22253.988,"end":22282.064,"text":"第二個 這項公投真正的內容是要把法院判死刑的一致決改為多數決讓殺一個人變得更容易但是我要問大家一件事情如果三個法官裡面有一個人是懷疑的但還是被迫依循多數決的決議去判死刑這樣是可以被接受的嗎?錯殺一個人就是永遠回不來的"},{"start":22283.118,"end":22303.087,"text":"司法的尊嚴和我們的良心能夠承擔得起這樣的錯誤嗎難道這就是國民黨對人命的一個態度嗎第三國民黨說民意有七成五支持死刑就把它變成一個通行證了但是我要跟大家講正義不是看聲量"},{"start":22304.187,"end":22319.162,"text":"正義不是看聲量台灣是一個法治的國家法律的存在就是要保護那些可能有一點可能是無辜的人如果連法官自己都不能夠取得共識的時候國家怎麼能夠放心的去執行死刑呢"},{"start":22320.492,"end":22341.254,"text":"最可惡的事情這個議題原本應該是要理性的充分的好好的來討論因為這是一條活生生的人命可是國民黨卻把它拿來當作一個政治提款機國民黨不是真的在乎我們的司法制度也不是真的在乎民眾的一個安全而是在製造對立"},{"start":22342.594,"end":22365.324,"text":"掩蓋自己的無能掩蓋自己怕被罷免的焦慮他們只是因為害怕就把人民的生命拿來賭我們不能夠接受這樣子的一個操作我們不能夠讓真正重要的司法議題呢變成國民黨政治算計的犧牲品我堅決反對這樣子的一個公投我們絕對不可以為了討好"},{"start":22366.735,"end":22395.401,"text":"民粹讓台灣犧牲了正義跟法治有一句話是這麼說的我也要呼籲大家怕什麼就來什麼所以既然國民黨現在這麼怕罷免那就請大家把握最後機會還有一些區域還在連署當中就請大家成全他們大罷免大成功好 謝謝張雅玲委員的發言接下來我們請李坤澄委員發言徐富奎委員請準備"},{"start":22409.038,"end":22426.737,"text":"謝謝主席還有所有立法院同仁的確根據公投法立法院是有為重大政策的創設跟覆決的權利有提出公投的必要者就經過立法院院會的同意通過之後交由中選會來辦理公投"},{"start":22429.079,"end":22447.787,"text":"但是呢 重大政策的這個創制呢是說你政府呢 這個沒有了政策那我們經由公投的程序呢希望政府來制定的這個政策這是從無到有的一個過程那重大政策的覆決呢就是說政府呢 它已經實施通過了一個重大的一個政策"},{"start":22448.487,"end":22469.304,"text":"然後立法院要求政府予以廢止利用公投的這個程序所以這個創制是從無到有 複決就是說有把它變到無如果現在要求說這個政府沒有的政策你要提起一個公投要求政府不要做或是說本來已經有的政策透過公投要求政府要來做"},{"start":22473.048,"end":22493.147,"text":"這個邏輯是非常的矛盾但是現在國民黨的這兩個公投包含這個反Face的公投、反J的公投就是這麼邏輯、矛盾、錯誤擺出的一個公投然後現在有沒有死刑?那大家都知道,現在還是有死刑只是說死刑需要各級法院、何義廷一致性的判決"},{"start":22494.529,"end":22517.766,"text":"這個是憲法這個憲法法庭的憲判制第八號的一個判決的意思結果呢看到這個國民黨的今天的這個提案說你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一字決好啦就算今天的這個公投的結果過了過了那也就是說好那不需要一字決那請問一下"},{"start":22518.795,"end":22535.137,"text":"死刑有沒有廢除 沒有這跟反廢死一點關係都沒有那所以說國民黨提了一個反廢死但它的內容完全跟反廢死一點關係都沒有更何況這個是大法官憲法法庭的這個判決它的效力等同於憲法"},{"start":22535.618,"end":22552.23,"text":"那結果呢 今天國民黨想要用一個公投來凌駕在憲法法庭的判決意旨之上這根本就是莫名其妙嘛所以國民黨的立委大家就覺得說反正我都能夠利用修這個憲訴把你們憲法法庭給廢掉了"},{"start":22552.91,"end":22568.724,"text":"我要利用這個公投把這個憲法法庭所解釋出來的判決例子把它廢除掉或是凌駕在上面好像也無所謂但是最重要的是說這本來這兩個公投提出來的原因就是要來遏止這個大罷免"},{"start":22570.645,"end":22592.022,"text":"希望說能夠利用在8月23號投票的時候能夠跟罷免綁在一起但是現在呢這個只剩下國民黨的這個罷免呢有可能在7月7月中旬上旬呢就有可能會投票了跟這個8月的公投一點關係都沒有所以我看國民黨這兩個公投是越來越無力了你看沒有一個國民黨的立委在這邊"},{"start":22596.496,"end":22602.442,"text":"好 謝謝李昆城委員的發言接下來我們請徐富奎委員發言張宏祿委員請準備"},{"start":22614.609,"end":22631.915,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁我想從去年這一屆的任期開始我想在立法院什麼無奇不有的事都會發生遺憾的是國民黨跟民眾黨的委員藉由國會改革這樣的一個"},{"start":22632.995,"end":22647.26,"text":"荒謬的一個情勢一連串做出一些很令人匪夷所思的事情我想不只我們這個民進黨的委員覺得這個難以理解甚至我們在跑新城的時候我們很多鄉親都說到底他們是在衝阿火是要把台灣毀掉這實在很恐怖"},{"start":22651.701,"end":22666.446,"text":"我想今天他們提出這樣的一個詐騙公投更是離譜蔡英文總統執政的期間法務部分別在2018年的8月跟2020年的4月分別執行了兩名死囚的一個死刑"},{"start":22667.062,"end":22694.752,"text":"那賴總統上任之後今年1月法務部也針對這個黃姓死囚也執行了一個死刑代表我們現在是這個相關的程序都有在進行當中那更離譜的是國民黨還針對這樣子賴總統執行死刑還特別感謝他還給司法正義跟這個受害者公道但是現在用這個詐騙公投來愚弄鄉親愚弄百姓非常非常的離譜"},{"start":22695.652,"end":22717.635,"text":"我們要求堅持判決死刑的程序要有嚴謹的一個審判也必須要有一個周延的處理但是在這樣的過程裡面我們發現國民黨前後矛盾甚至不符合相關的一個程序我想我們現有的一個法律框架依然可以判決並且執行死刑"},{"start":22718.315,"end":22737.956,"text":"所以我們台灣根本不存在這樣一個廢死的一個議題國民黨透過這樣的公投只是在找到一個虛構的提案想要化解現在大罷免的危機甚至是浪費我們所有納稅人的錢來政治一個不當的一個政治操作那遺憾的是現在大法官"},{"start":22739.094,"end":22758.35,"text":"現在的國民黨逢大法官必反只要是大法官做出的決議都反對甚至嚴重利用這個立法院的多數暴力干預我們行政立法司法的一個監督機制制衡的一個機制我想令人非常的遺憾如果國民黨民眾黨"},{"start":22760.232,"end":22770.124,"text":"這樣子執迷不悟那將來迎來民意的一個反撲我想國民黨的委員最近一直喊話說公投不是洪水猛獸叫大家不要害怕"},{"start":22770.816,"end":22791.631,"text":"那我這邊也要很勇敢的呼籲我們的國民黨跟民眾黨的委員罷免也不是洪水猛獸而是民意真正要解決在野黨野蠻失衡的一個解方大罷免大成功我想我們台灣民意也會勇敢的直敲對決要三政不失任的國民黨立委"},{"start":22794.738,"end":22799.824,"text":"好 謝謝徐副委員的發言 接下來請張宏祿委員發言 郭育晴委員請準備張宏祿委員請發言"},{"start":22827.474,"end":22851.927,"text":"各位委員同仁我們今天在討論這一個公投的問題我想一個問題我們要先知道在依大法官的解釋台灣現在是沒有廢除死刑的而且大法官他的解釋非常的明確在台灣死刑還是合乎情理"},{"start":22853.635,"end":22877.088,"text":"他只是對要不要判處死刑他的嚴謹度提高而已要法官一致同意我認為這個是非常適合台灣現在既有的民情啊想想以前國民黨政府剛來台灣的時候那時候的228事件"},{"start":22878.305,"end":22905.527,"text":"很多人就這樣不見了也沒有透過審判也沒有透過什麼那在國民黨執政的時候戒嚴期間也有很多人就犯了所有的戒嚴條款然後受到不公平的審判甚至屈打成招也被判死刑所以現在台灣的實際情況就是死刑還是存在只是比較嚴謹的去判決"},{"start":22907.682,"end":22925.013,"text":"所以今天這個本位委員有提出的這個是你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決製政策我覺得很奇怪也很矛盾為什麼呢"},{"start":22927.506,"end":22956.379,"text":"如果你對判處法官對判處你對法官對於這判處刑要不要一致決其實這個不是政策的問題這個其實也是可以透過修法去要求說要去怎麼解決但一個不是政策的問題你要人民來創製覆決來做一個公投我覺得這基本上是很多委員說的違憲那另外我個人的看法是這樣子是不對的"},{"start":22958.015,"end":22981.441,"text":"你不管你立法院的名義再強大你也不可以把手伸到司法院去你要去影響法官的判決我們很擔心啊如果未來有任何人對法官的判決有任何爭議他是不是也透過公投的手段來做我認為對於審判流程"},{"start":22982.506,"end":23010.936,"text":"根本不是政策的決定審判的流程不可以拿來當成公投的一個標的我覺得其其不以為然所以我覺得今天這個案子啊大家要在審慎的思考而不是為了某種利益某種的政治手段而去公投我勸大家要三思好謝謝張宏祿委員的發言謝謝"},{"start":23012.523,"end":23016.184,"text":"我們接下來請郭玉琴委員發言 郭國文委員請準備院長以及所有在場的同仁還有電視機前面正在收看直播的朋友"},{"start":23036.28,"end":23057.765,"text":"死刑在法院合議庭必須一致決是有其憲政跟人權背景死刑是不可逆的一個重刑更需要更高層次的司法跟確信以及共識判處一個人死刑不能只是投票而必須是整體的司法價值的共同承擔"},{"start":23059.165,"end":23076.338,"text":"再次的強調台灣實質上並沒有廢除死刑而實質上法律仍然保有死刑然而藍白呢針對廢死的這個議題惡意的想要綁著所有的公投在政治上其實具有非常明確的一個目的啦"},{"start":23077.199,"end":23102.412,"text":"其實就是想要藉由主張讓人民來決定死刑的存廢塑造自己好像跟平民百姓站在一起或者是想要維繫他們所謂的維持社會安全的一個形象刻意是要來聚焦媒體跟民間的一個注意討好迎合反廢死的一個民意說穿了就是怕被罷免"},{"start":23104.232,"end":23129.555,"text":"此行的議題不但涉及人權司法制度跟憲法的價值更應該要透過專業的辯論而不是情緒的勒索動員為主的用公投的方式歐洲人權法院他說了人權保障不應交付多數決其實就是擔心對特定犯罪的情緒反應而非理性的判斷"},{"start":23130.476,"end":23159.793,"text":"死刑的存廢本來就不應該成為政黨操作的民粹的武器再次的強調目前我們的法律條文死刑仍然存在特殊的案件仍然有判死死刑的一個判決雖然台灣死刑的執行門檻極高也需要在合議庭當中的法官全體同意一致才能夠判決死刑"},{"start":23161.294,"end":23179.186,"text":"但是目前光台灣的刑法還有刑事訴訟法仍然保留死刑作為最高的刑罰有60多項的犯罪行為最重是可以判處死刑在這裡我真的是要建議藍白的委員"},{"start":23180.786,"end":23196.851,"text":"與其你們現在在搞這種詐騙空殼的公投還不如好好的去檢討為什麼罷綠委的過程當中是這麼的荒腔走板連署的錯誤率是這麼的高"},{"start":23197.651,"end":23220.004,"text":"死人連署也這麼的多被司法調查還要去違法去包圍北檢那我只能說大罷免大成功不適任的立委被罷免掉剛好而已謝謝郭玉琴委員發言接下來我們請郭國文委員發言林月琴委員請準備"},{"start":23233.479,"end":23261.964,"text":"主席 各位委員從早上來聆聽由吳宗憲等52位立委所提出的這個公投案有幾位委員是如此的定義定義說這個公投案基本上是反對嚴謹判死的公投定義這個公投案是一個反憲法的公投不論是審法會委員的觀點或是審博洋委員的觀點都有其他的定義跟道理存在"},{"start":23262.915,"end":23291.624,"text":"但是最終大家都非常清楚其實這一個反廢死也好反嚴謹判死的公投也好它本質上是一個反罷免公投那這反罷免公投背後呢其實真正的原因真的不是法理上的理由法理上的理由大家都非常清楚從法理的內容當中大法官會議所解釋的就等同於憲法的一個規格它反對的不只是這個大法官對這個解釋的內容而已"},{"start":23292.644,"end":23316.509,"text":"從大法官另一個解釋案520的解釋案當中呢即便是最高行政機關你有參與國家決策的這個權利但你也不能影響這個權利分立的原則也簡單的講今天這個公投案呢這實質的內容違反了大法官會解釋在程序上也違反了大法官會解釋可以說既不合法也不合理"},{"start":23317.697,"end":23340.455,"text":"一個沒有正當性沒有一個合法性的公投案當中當然引不起人民的共鳴也如同這個公投案當中也引不起藍營的立委的共鳴因為他們本質上就是要反罷免公投他們清楚的知道這一個根本沒有辦法達到反罷免為什麼第一個他會浪費國家的公帑超過十億上"},{"start":23341.115,"end":23358.78,"text":"第二個他只會饒死動眾到藍營的支持者而沒有辦法達到實質的效果但是我必須跟藍營的朋友說其實不只沒有實質的效果而且有反效果試想這個罷免案從何而來就是第一會期的時候違法亂紀擴權的法案強行通過"},{"start":23361.781,"end":23373.408,"text":"第二個會期的時候又亂立財政收支方法亂砍國家預算跟國家、人民、社會來作對以至於導致整個罷免案如火如荼"},{"start":23374.386,"end":23391.847,"text":"真正的原因是這樣子可是呢卻又重蹈覆轍推動這個公投案也是在浪費國家的資源浪費人民的這個精力以及浪費整個社會的一個調和的空間這樣的情況底下不是又複製了他原來被罷免的理由嗎"},{"start":23392.935,"end":23416.141,"text":"也因此呢真正創造國民黨的危機是在於國民黨當初進入這一屆第十一屆立法院的時候由富坤起所主導的總路線的一個失敗跟錯誤以至於後來啊又加上一個無能的黨主席無法化解他的危機才會導致今天的結果所以我可以預祝大罷免一定會大成功祝福國民黨"},{"start":23418.879,"end":23441.456,"text":"好 謝謝郭國文委員的發言接下來我們請林月琴委員 陳俊宇委員請準備各位同仁我反對國民黨提出來的反廢死公投提案"},{"start":23442.352,"end":23468.545,"text":"因為這是一個假議題第一 台灣尚未廢除死刑這是事實我們的刑法仍然保有死刑在113年憲判制第八號判決中大法官明確地表示死刑作為刑罰並不違憲第二 該死人當然可以判死但不是亂殺人我們支持罪行相當的原則"},{"start":23470.317,"end":23492.322,"text":"該死就判死但應限於最嚴重的個案這包括犯刑的殘忍性手段跟犯人的心智狀況等都須由法院綜合評估慎重來量刑第三死刑判決要非常的嚴謹大法官也清楚指出"},{"start":23493.717,"end":23509.914,"text":"一二審的時候須由所有合議庭法官一致同意三審必須有延遲辯論偵查偵審過程必須保障辯護權不能對心智明顯不足者判死刑"},{"start":23510.795,"end":23534.419,"text":"這就是為了防止冤案 防止國家濫殺第四 法官如果判錯的話 全民買單司法不是機器 如果法官出錯 社會會受害死刑一旦執行 沒辦法回頭國民黨卻主張降低判死的標準一審 二審 兩票 三審 三票 就可定人身死"},{"start":23535.2,"end":23557.32,"text":"這樣的制度你我都能接受嗎我們反問一句如果一二審三位法官一致判死三審五位法官也一致判死誰能阻止那個罪大惡極的人服法呢所以保障程序不是為了保護壞人是為了讓我們不要錯殺無辜第五這應該是你憑爭議的契機"},{"start":23560.646,"end":23579.973,"text":"不是挑起對立的操作廢死跟反廢死的爭議需要的是更嚴謹的制度更可信的司法程序而不是一直公投票社會對立 情緒對撞第六 國民黨此舉是在操作社會的撕裂"},{"start":23580.933,"end":23608.182,"text":"這個提案無助於司法改革只會支持跟反對死刑的人們對立讓社會在情緒對立中空轉甚至還把社會成本推給執政黨這不是為台灣好 是政治操弄大罷免 大成功好 謝謝林月琴委員的發言接下來我們請陳俊宇委員發言何新淳委員請準備"},{"start":23624.67,"end":23652.784,"text":"好 主席各位在場的委員同仁依據憲法所主張的主權在民的一個原則也為了確保我們國民能夠行使直接民權公投保障我們公民參與政治決策的一個權利但是今天我們在這裡討論這個公投案如同前面許多委員所提到的實際上就是一個假議題"},{"start":23654.403,"end":23671.086,"text":"此時此刻的台灣根本就沒有廢死我們也看到在今年的1月份法務部還在執行這個死刑犯而這個113年憲判制第8號的一個憲法判決"},{"start":23671.874,"end":23695.487,"text":"所宣告的是死刑為有條件的這個合憲在現行的這個法律框架之下透過嚴謹的一個判決程序台灣依舊保留死刑的一個存在實在想不通國民黨為什麼需要在此時此刻透過立法院來提一個這樣的一個空殼的一個公投"},{"start":23697.725,"end":23725.086,"text":"那進一步看到公投提案的一個主文寫道您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一字決之政策那從字面上來看並非他們也是反對這個死刑的部分而是在論述上一直提到說這個反廢死那"},{"start":23727.322,"end":23755.979,"text":"換言之僅僅是要透過這個投票來決定我們各級法院在評議判被告死刑的時候何一庭法官們的一個意見需不需要完全一致基本上與支持或反對廢死毫不相干所以根本不能夠稱作是反廢死的一個公投而且這項公投的一個主文還會抵觸先前這個憲法法庭的一個判決"},{"start":23757.419,"end":23769.902,"text":"縱使今天在立法院通過了在三個月後也透過公民投票通過了恐怕也只是這個虛耗公帑浪費社會資源的一個無效公投"},{"start":23770.799,"end":23787.893,"text":"那這次立法院所發起的一個公投案也即將在稍後再次以藍白多數表決通過來破壞司法立法之間的一個權力分立為了只是自己在政治上的一個操作是在刻意誤導台灣人民"},{"start":23789.409,"end":23808.577,"text":"轉移注目焦點模糊民眾判斷的一個方向我們記憶猶新去年藍白聯手毀憲亂政提出許多的惡法亂三總預算讓行政部門無法正常的運作來癱瘓國家甚至企圖弱化國防對中共的文攻武嚇"},{"start":23822.076,"end":23841.103,"text":"好 谢谢陈俊宇委员的发言报告院会登记第22号及登记第30号何新存委员与王美惠委员对调发言次序接下来我们请王美惠委员发言林俊宪委员请准备"},{"start":23849.881,"end":23869.348,"text":"主席 各位鄉親 鄉親 大家好尤其是我們在座的同事 大家好今天講到公道 我覺得從這次以來 我覺得不知道要做什麼事我如果回到我們的故鄉 自己的心"},{"start":23872.509,"end":23884.294,"text":"大家都問說 阿維林到底是在開什麼花啦所以在這個過程當中 我覺得是很悲哀在一個國會的地方 他要先這樣"},{"start":23887.535,"end":23895.938,"text":"今天為了這個公道 我覺得國民黨在這兩個公道雖然是一國外已經過去了 會協商的兩黨旗但是根本都沒有實際去合作也沒有討論這樣的提案是要做什麼呢尤其為了操作議題"},{"start":23916.109,"end":23922.783,"text":"藉著聲量完全沒有說社會的一臉從這次開始國民黨有很多法案"},{"start":23928.923,"end":23948.242,"text":"因為要投票的時候 修正的版本都沒出來年齡也沒發過請大家看清楚 這就是國民黨提案的態度 邏輯的水平"},{"start":23949.563,"end":23955.287,"text":"再說這次的公投 根本是欧美改善 欧美操作國民黨就是要公投和罷免 無法照废 沒錯就是要轉移我們的罷免的壓力 而且這個會時 這個議題大法官早就已經改善了"},{"start":23980.025,"end":23988.152,"text":"國民黨到現在還要站出來說要講道實在是非常惡質現在又想要指控大法官的解釋這是什麼態度這裡亂七八糟的提案就是要騙百姓騙民眾"},{"start":24003.891,"end":24016.522,"text":"我建議國民黨乾脆把這個案子趕快撤回這個是對社會的責任對台灣人民的交代尤其現在就是我們台灣"},{"start":24022.809,"end":24043.017,"text":"要大罷免、大成功所有的台灣人要看清楚什麼人會不讓台灣人亂殺殺以上謝謝王美惠委員的發言接下來我們請林俊憲委員發言劉建國委員請準備"},{"start":24054.417,"end":24078.907,"text":"主席 各位同仁我們今年一月國家才剛執行死刑現在法院依然依法可以判處死刑死刑的制度還沒有被判處死刑那麼國民黨這個公投到底是在反對什麼反對一個不存在的東西反對一天一天的那根據我們的公投法"},{"start":24079.946,"end":24107.513,"text":"我們立法院,我們立法院只能針對行政機關的重大政策來進行公投但是死刑啊,這是蘇安營在判的那我國民黨就放政策兩個字,我覺得這要欺騙誰判處死刑根據啊,憲法法庭在去年做的大法官的解釋宣判裡面啊"},{"start":24108.578,"end":24131.765,"text":"就是說各級法院在判處死刑的時候所有法官要一致決啦這不是實質的廢死這是一種對人權還有司法就是雙重啦尤其是對人權的一個保障那這個東西可以拿來公道嗎用多數決就來決定死刑的判決嗎"},{"start":24133.806,"end":24149.768,"text":"所以這個所謂的反廢死 這是標準的 國民黨在混淆視聽他要欺騙民眾 讓民眾認為他們在支持國民黨的反廢死公投就是在支持繼續有死刑"},{"start":24151.323,"end":24176.9,"text":"其實你認真看 國民黨的公投主文它是像你是否同意各級法院合議庭的法官判處死刑不須一致決的決策它這就是要推翻憲法法庭去年做的第八號判決要判施刑所有的法官 不管你就是幾個範圍法官要一致決那國民黨的公投就是要來改變就是說不需要法官一致決"},{"start":24178.944,"end":24206.926,"text":"這樣定義就是立法在干涉司法那麼就算這個公投過了啦這也一定是違憲的嘛因為去年的大法官這憲法法庭已經做出裁定了實行必須一致決的判決所以我們這個公投啦 通過啦這是標準的違憲啦因為你要推翻憲法法庭已經做出的裁決憲法的解釋是有一種啦"},{"start":24208.621,"end":24231.731,"text":"你現在要公道這是要公道什麼?所以這很清楚啦,國民黨這邊的公道不是在關心司法制度啦,也不是要對暫行私刑立場的堅持啦,它是要用死刑議題來動員群眾的情緒啦,轉移焦點的操作啦,因為這怕麻煩啦。"},{"start":24232.833,"end":24238.256,"text":"大罷免來啊,我們都會怕死啊現在亂來,這個真的亂來好,謝謝林俊憲委員的發言接下來我們請劉建國委員發言,李崑哲委員請準備主席,各位動聽"},{"start":24258.649,"end":24284.772,"text":"今天在野黨提出不是反廢時的公投而是是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須疑自決的公投案我們台灣的國會與你無情相啊台灣的國會若無情相要讓台灣人民可以信賴和服從拜託一下拜託一下"},{"start":24286.325,"end":24304.239,"text":"台灣的國會要進行,台灣就要進行進步和發展。這個議題與會不會死無關,只是象徵立法院正在一步一步地破壞台灣憲政體制,災難又企圖把手伸進司法體制內。"},{"start":24305.758,"end":24322.405,"text":"當然五款分立,你看到所有是平行單位,所有大多數做出來的憲法改正以及所有的審判制度,是你看到可以用公道的方式,這位是我,所有應該理由去判嗎?"},{"start":24324.008,"end":24338.713,"text":"在野黨如果對憲法法庭做出的聲言有意見,應該向憲法法庭立案,聲稱在心。我會在議會內利用這種提供方式,來修訂憲法法庭對憲法罪犯的解說款。在野黨也是很多法律專家、憲法學者,"},{"start":24349.839,"end":24367.784,"text":"你不夠用現代法庭提出中心的施行,等到頭用一個危險亂情的公道給予它來欺騙社會大眾。說這是犯匪夕的公道,這意圖很清楚的,就是要因應騙地區會的罷免案。所以我在這裡必須要強調,台灣到現在沒有匪夷私刑,"},{"start":24373.973,"end":24384.337,"text":"我們要了解還有重金全國有十行的罪名都必須要判施刑另外他絕對不能大頭破壞台灣的憲政體制"},{"start":24386.516,"end":24412.947,"text":"竟不應該把手藏在司法的心法環境當時在野黨竟敢不可以提出私刑的議題來當作罷免的救命端救命端所以在這裡 經過反對結公投 盡酷判司法獨立 寸步奔流大罷免 大成功 給台灣國會 掛金進銷 好不好"},{"start":24419.466,"end":24437.313,"text":"好 謝謝劉建國委員的發言各位報告委員會我們現在在議場二樓旁丁來自台北市南港高中的同學們我們掌聲歡迎我們接下來請李坤哲委員發言許智傑委員請準備"},{"start":24448.339,"end":24466.597,"text":"大家好 担任立委必须遵照人民的托付担任立委再怎么蛮横是不能践踏民主宪政的原则尤其是要遵从三权分立基本民主政治的一个基本精神"},{"start":24467.518,"end":24486.874,"text":"那麼依據憲法第78條 司法院具有解釋憲法 解釋法律以及命令的重要職權根據4至第185號的解釋 大法官所做的憲法解釋"},{"start":24488.035,"end":24501.189,"text":"具有拘束全國機關各級機關以及全體人民的效力這是憲法明文授權並給予司法院重要的職權"},{"start":24502.557,"end":24530.605,"text":"另外 釋字第520號也明確的指出利用公投提出創制或者是覆決案這是人民的基本權利但是這個提案既不是創制 也不是覆決因此它根本就不是公投案可以處理的範圍同時 公投是人民的基本權利"},{"start":24531.704,"end":24553.557,"text":"因此公投提案原則上是應該要由人民來發動雖然立法院也可以提出公投案但前提是不能違反憲法相關權利分立的基本原則尤其是不能干涉其他憲政機關的職權"},{"start":24556.94,"end":24578.977,"text":"如果立法院忽视自己作为宪政机关应该遵守宪法执行相关职务的职权利用公投案来侵害干预大法官的权利这是严重逾越权力分立底线的违宪行为"},{"start":24580.098,"end":24600.029,"text":"國民黨委員的法制素養如此低落對憲政原則之無知非常令人遺憾更讓人遺憾的是這個明顯違憲的公投提案竟然是中國國民黨所出手的一個提案這對"},{"start":24602.455,"end":24629.7,"text":"在過去一直自詡為是中華民國憲法守護者的中國國民黨來說是一個最大的嘲諷將中華民國的憲法基本運作的精神踐踏到這種樣子這也有為全國國民基本的附託我們希望中國國民黨回頭思案要遵照憲法的基本精神"},{"start":24631.752,"end":24632.993,"text":"主席 大家好"},{"start":24663.411,"end":24679.947,"text":"剛才已經很多我們的先進提到國民黨這一次的暴力多數想要用這個方法來通過我們的公投案那也很多人提到你要尊重立法權跟司法權的分別"},{"start":24680.908,"end":24697.383,"text":"那另外呢 這個台灣目前並沒有廢死的問題那國民黨還提到這個主要叫做反廢死公投這個跟1加1等於2 樓上有很多南港高中的同學1加1等於2公投你們覺得適不適當"},{"start":24698.504,"end":24719.312,"text":"我相信大家都覺得說,這就有答案了就不用說了,又來這裡揮那國民黨現在提的這個公投,就是我們目前並沒有反廢死而他提的是反廢死公投,那跟提1加1等於2不是一樣的道理嗎?真的是笑掉人民大亞那我們來看朱立倫真的是不如盧秀燕、不如江啟臣"},{"start":24720.012,"end":24733.487,"text":"我們來看之前盧先生也提過反空汙、反深奧、反核死的公投當時盧先生提的是經過人民連署不過當時他的死亡比例是2.43%、2.32%跟2.35%"},{"start":24737.911,"end":24757.725,"text":"後來江啟臣當主席的時候,他也提過這個公投案,反萊豬公投綁大選,還有重啟核四,當時發起人林維周提出的反萊豬死亡比例是0.3%,江啟臣提出的公投綁大選死亡比例是0.31%,"},{"start":24760.379,"end":24786.106,"text":"黃士修提的重啟協和式的死亡比例是0.28%所以你可以看到盧仙英時代其實他這個死亡比例呢2點多%很有可能也不少都是用抄的那我們再來看現在這一次國民黨在罷免我們的綠色的立委的死亡比例是4.7%你可以看到為什麼這麼多人就會被辦案然後國民黨還說什麼這個是"},{"start":24788.587,"end":24803.877,"text":"不符比例原則那我請問各位如果我們再提一個死亡連署偽造文書又不要被偵辦那這個也來當一個公投案這有需要嗎所以國民黨這個動作根本是脫褲子放屁好那我們來看朱立倫"},{"start":24804.637,"end":24832.299,"text":"朱立倫你今天為什麼不學學盧秀燕為什麼不學學江啟臣你就直接訴出民意因為你們這個題目呢你知道民意明顯不符那你沒有辦法用透過民意的連署然後這個時候才要用立法院的多數來爭取這個公投案的通過那相對的呢朱立倫如果你在用民意去連署的話恐怕你也會出現報名立委的這個死亡連署的比例過高"},{"start":24832.879,"end":24851.862,"text":"所以朱棣臉真的是國民黨這一次這個人是很差那我們希望說大家不要讓他們閃避大罷免大成功大罷免大成功大家一起來 謝謝好 謝謝許智傑委員的發言我們接下來請林怡瑾委員發言邱毅英委員請準備"},{"start":24869.291,"end":24893.382,"text":"主席 各位同仁首先 國民黨的公投主文當中指稱死刑判決憑以自決是一項政策這本身就是天大的錯誤死刑判決憑以虛以自決是憲法法庭作出的憲法判決意旨但就它的本質根本就不是一項政策況且"},{"start":24895.373,"end":24916.543,"text":"根據憲法訴訟法第38條憲法判決有著拘束各機關及人民之效力這是對全國絕對性的拘束力國民黨刻意在公投主文用政策兩字來形容根本是混淆視聽同時也凸顯了中國國民黨對法律的錯誤理解"},{"start":24917.643,"end":24942.185,"text":"就連能不能拿來公投的標的都不知道真是徹底的法盲針對死刑判決平易一致決身為立法委員的我們應該要重新檢視作為死刑判決的刑度到底有沒有修法的地方譬如我們是不是要研議國民法官法是不是要與時俱進的修正或者來探討"},{"start":24943.866,"end":24961.679,"text":"保安監禁制度等等而不是用情緒性民粹性的手段交由公民複決的一個根本不成命題的公投題目我再強調一次立法委員的職責在修法那必須要客尊"},{"start":24962.739,"end":24991.229,"text":"憲法的義務那依據憲法法庭的判決來議職修法那才是負責任的表現那立法院如果提議要舉行這項公投那其實就是違反憲法上的權利分立以立法權侵害了司法權那我就問國民黨是違憲違上癮了嗎看到國民黨連這種詐欺人民的公投內容都提了出來我們就知道面對大罷免國民黨慌了"},{"start":24991.989,"end":25018.717,"text":"那事實上對外雖然這個反廢死公投國民黨的公投主人一個字都沒有提到反對廢死那理由很簡單因為台灣根本沒有廢除死刑剛剛很多同仁都有講那國民黨說了一個謊那居然要用全民用納稅錢來用公投辦理公投陪他們大家圓謊那臉皮真的是非常非常的厚宇宙級的惡劣啊"},{"start":25019.517,"end":25042.92,"text":"那我深深覺得國民黨這一年多來展現到國人面前的樣貌就是無能失職而且狀況外沒有一樣事情做得好那說立法只會搞最高機密版那說監督只會亂刪預算那就連簽連署也只會抄死人名冊那就說搞公投最後也在弄詐騙"},{"start":25044.241,"end":25044.401,"text":"我講比較久的"},{"start":25072.639,"end":25089.213,"text":"主席各位委員我們今天要討論的是這一個公投案請大家再認真的看一下這個公投的主文叫做您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑"},{"start":25089.993,"end":25113.744,"text":"不需一致決之政策我想請教一下各級法院的判決這個怎麼會是一個政策呢這是在2024年憲法法庭第13號判決所確立的原則這個判決主文寫死刑判決作為最嚴厲的國家制裁"},{"start":25114.444,"end":25130.042,"text":"需建立於法官意見一致的最高程序保障上所以這是憲法法庭作出的判決它不是一個政策但是我覺得非常遺憾的"},{"start":25131.585,"end":25145.925,"text":"寫這個公投題目 寫這個公投主文的國民黨 民眾黨的幾位主腦竟然都是號稱是法學博士我不知道他們的法律是不是從高位卡車騙去"},{"start":25147.367,"end":25165.872,"text":"第二我要提出這個公投的主文進入院會討論完全違反了程序正義這個公投主文已經一改二改三改從反廢死一直到現在變成說要反對要"},{"start":25166.972,"end":25187.761,"text":"同意這個是不是一個政策中華民國的法律沒有廢除死刑所以他們要反廢死原本上就是一個邏輯不通的提案在立法院裡頭沒有經過完整的討論沒有經過完整的協商韓院長在朝野沒有共識之下靜置就將其列案"},{"start":25188.621,"end":25205.742,"text":"破壞了朝野協商的憲政根本所以沒有程序正義當然也就沒有實質的正義講了這麼多民進黨在今天用我們的論述來表達對這個案子的反對"},{"start":25206.883,"end":25229.737,"text":"或許接下來的表決我們有可能會輸因為你們總是國民黨民眾黨兩黨總是會用多數暴力來強行表決通過但是我們必須告訴大家程序正義非常重要違反憲法的公投提案根本不能在立法院裡頭通過"},{"start":25231.278,"end":25242.947,"text":"要阻止國民黨民眾黨持續違法亂政只有一個方法就是大罷免大成功謝謝大家"},{"start":25846.089,"end":25873.045,"text":"法院會現在繼續開會 請王委員定語發言各位同仁 中國國民黨提出反廢死公投"},{"start":25874.178,"end":25898.012,"text":"我們必須先了解這一個必須支出國庫7億新台幣的反費時公投是否必要是否合法人民的權利不管選舉罷免公投都是必要的支出但是如果為了政治算計來推動公投花人民的稅金這是我們不能接受的"},{"start":25898.939,"end":25918.825,"text":"反肺死我們必須要先研究死刑還在不在在2009年5月14號當時的馬英九總統宣布簽署兩個國際人權公約其中公民與政治權利公約叫做ICCPR"},{"start":25919.745,"end":25944.962,"text":"裡面的第六條第一項第二項就是引起廢死爭議相關的議題但是我國法律中的死刑沒有修訂所以當時眾使馬總統簽了這個人權公約但是死刑還在2024年9月20號憲法法庭的憲判制第八號作出釋憲文"},{"start":25946.423,"end":25972.748,"text":"死刑不違憲要求以更嚴謹的程序來進行死刑判決而在這個釋憲之後2025年1月16號黃林凱被告被執行槍決死刑也就是憲法認定並無違憲死刑還在而這個釋憲文之後也確實執行了死刑的槍決"},{"start":25974.068,"end":25987.444,"text":"所以死刑還在那現在為什麼有這個反廢死公投因為國民黨的立委怕自己不在死刑還在怕國民黨立委自己不在所以就像今天我們在這邊討論這個議題的時候提案的中國國民黨立委"},{"start":25990.848,"end":26012.669,"text":"在現場的幾乎只剩下現在只剩兩個通通沒有來開會是這樣的情形自己的提案不上來發言不敢面對然後把這個案子丟出來仗著人他們的席次多數要來執行這個公投花人民的錢來救自己的政治前途"},{"start":26013.67,"end":26033.44,"text":"我們的公投在公投法第二條第二項明定的公投適用的範圍是法律的覆決、立法原則的創制以及重大政策的創制或覆決。我們死刑還在,難道你要創一個死刑以外的死刑嗎?"},{"start":26034.72,"end":26057.485,"text":"我們的政策沒有廢除死刑難道你要否決一個沒廢除死刑的釋憲或者相關的這一些既定的政策嗎所以要遏止國民黨這種荒腔走反的亂象只有大罷免大成功才能夠遏止這一切好 謝謝謝謝王阿遠 下一位請何新淳委員發言"},{"start":26069.158,"end":26090.453,"text":"大家好今天我們要嚴正的表達對國民黨提出這個反廢死公投案的疑慮與反對我們都知道台灣目前並沒有廢除死刑根據憲法法庭的判決死刑在特定條件下依然核限政府也依法在執行那麼我就必須要問一句"},{"start":26092.046,"end":26114.337,"text":"這有什麼好反Face的為什麼會有這個公投案這個公投案又有什麼意義我想大家都心知肚明國民黨的這個公投題目是建立在虛構的前提上是不存在的假議題這不是在解決問題而是在製造對立更是在浪費國家資源"},{"start":26115.257,"end":26138.208,"text":"以死刑一字決的司法制度設計問題來包裝成反Face這個公投,就是在混淆民眾視聽,試圖操作社會的情緒,這是極其非常不負責任的做法。我們不是害怕公投,公投是民主的體現,我們也捍衛民主。"},{"start":26138.968,"end":26163.411,"text":"但是我們要提醒大家民主制度本身是需要被保護的我們必須要盡最大的力量來維護如果今天可以為了政黨一己之私來做政治操作提出像這樣一個荒誕的題目不存在的題目是不是只要"},{"start":26164.231,"end":26193.431,"text":"題目聳動可以了撥情緒就能夠綁架社會討論這個我們要深思跟三思各位同仁國會不應該成為散播假議題的起點更不能讓立法的資源被浪費在政治的操作上真正的民主是建立在真實的問題理性的辯論與制度的信任上我們要維護民主"},{"start":26194.131,"end":26214.176,"text":"最後我要呼籲國民黨停止這一場毫無根據的公投鬧劇如果真的關心司法制度的改革那就請提出具體的修法如果真的關心國人的安全就請跟我們一起強化民主的防衛不要用"},{"start":26215.316,"end":26239.952,"text":"不存在的問題不要用這樣子的假議題來掩飾真正政治操弄的事實也不要用這種不存在的問題來毀憲亂政混淆人民視聽打擊民主的力量台灣的民主我們要真正的來守護請停止這一個公投案請停止這一齣鬧劇"},{"start":26241.413,"end":26252.522,"text":"請不要做政治操弄請維護台灣社會人民的力量正在監督著你們再一次的來呼籲國民黨三思而後行謝謝"},{"start":26272.045,"end":26295.516,"text":"主席、各位同仁,今天我們在這裡討論反Face公投,說穿了就是大家口中的假議題。什麼是假議題呢?就是表面上看起來像是在討論公共政策,實際上卻是在轉移焦點,操弄情緒,讓社會陷入對立,讓本來應該受到關注的司法改革,淹沒在這無止盡的口水與情緒動員中。"},{"start":26297.237,"end":26317.985,"text":"這項公投提案不是在解決問題而是在騙操弄社會情緒也就是騙用假議題包裝政治目的的也是在騙就像罷免連署一樣拿一大堆死亡人口的資料給黨工抄寫充連署抄一份三塊錢這也是騙"},{"start":26319.125,"end":26326.226,"text":"而且是在踐踏我們民主制度的根本我只想問一句難道這個黨就不能正常一點嗎"},{"start":26327.728,"end":26350.203,"text":"大家心裡都明白,司法制度當然還有很多值得檢討的地方,無論是被害人的權益、冤案的問題,還是司法程序的透明與效率,這些才是我們社會真正該花力氣去處理的問題。但是很遺憾的,我們現在看到的不是改革方向的討論,而是一波又一波的情緒操作,"},{"start":26350.703,"end":26362.35,"text":"用公投提案激化社會對立把複雜的司法議題硬生生簡化成一場挺不挺的動員戰這樣的做法對社會真的有幫助嗎"},{"start":26363.905,"end":26391.572,"text":"公投制度是民主社會的工具沒錯但工具怎麼用決定了它帶來的是進步還是傷害如果它是為了解決社會的分歧讓人民就重大政策做出選擇那是值得肯定的但是如果只是被某些政黨拿來操作聲量煽動情緒那就是在破壞民主很遺憾的這場反廢死公投就是這樣的一個例子一個徹頭徹尾的政治操作"},{"start":26392.392,"end":26421.188,"text":"大家看看這項公投提案只有對立沒有改革這樣的議題放進公投是要解決問題嗎還是只是為了製造更多的問題換來更多的聲量假議題是遮不住真名義的人民的力量終究會勝出最後我要呼籲我們的社會最不缺的就是這種假議題台灣真正需要的是需要是要有面對問題解決問題而不是永遠只會拿社會的傷痛來炒短線"},{"start":26422.568,"end":26444.683,"text":"煽動情緒 操弄民意今天的公投提案是在騙罷免連署也是在騙說到底這個政黨的操作方式就跟詐騙集團是沒有兩樣的所以也呼籲我們所有的民眾這樣子的一路騙喔大家不要上當了一起加油 謝謝"},{"start":26448.657,"end":26451.383,"text":"謝謝陳委員下一位請黃秀芳委員發言"},{"start":26461.84,"end":26484.254,"text":"主席各位同仁根據公投法政府沒有的政策就是像現在我們政府根本沒有Face如果提起公投要求政府不要做或是本來有的政策卻要求政府做這個邏輯就是自相矛盾即便通過也沒辦法發生效力"},{"start":26485.194,"end":26501.907,"text":"國民黨想透過立法院黨團直接在立法院提案要人民公投投票決定各級法院判被告死刑時何以庭法官們要不要意見完全一致這個內容根本是"},{"start":26503.888,"end":26529.999,"text":"跟支持死刑或者是支持或者是反對廢除死刑完全無關跟這個完全明顯是文不對題那憲法法庭憲判第八號判決認為現階段死刑是合憲的而且在今年一月我們的政府才剛執行死刑因此沒有廢除死刑的問題國民黨提出"},{"start":26532.74,"end":26547.018,"text":"這一項公投我就想要問你們的公投反方在哪裡用一個虛構的提案來進行政策操作不符合法律不符合民意更加速人民對國民黨的失望"},{"start":26547.719,"end":26568.553,"text":"那外界有報導說如果兩個公投案真的如此不堪民進黨在怕什麼我要告訴大家這樣的言論是荒謬是可笑的如果我們已經知道這是錯的路為什麼要讓它繼續走下去中選會已經就國民黨的公投案表示"},{"start":26569.694,"end":26582.691,"text":"過去辦理全國性的公投案經費預估一案公投辦理為例預估至少要9.2億那每增加一案至少要增加1.5億左右"},{"start":26584.893,"end":26607.469,"text":"國民黨提出來這樣的一個公投根本就是浪費公帑國民黨主張什麼還錢於民那這都是騙人的他們寫幾行字就想隨便的花掉大家十億的辛苦錢這也是為什麼我們要在這裡不厭其煩的登記發言來告訴民眾公投案不合理的地方"},{"start":26608.249,"end":26636.903,"text":"最後我還要告訴大家透過人民投票來重新決定被告死刑的法院合議庭是否需要一製決已經抵觸憲法法庭的判決縱使這個公投案或者是今天表決通過也僅是浪費公帑浪費社會資源無效的公投那前面講的這個十億不只是白白的花掉"},{"start":26637.803,"end":26662.8,"text":"簡直是丟進水裡還不止那不管是公投最後投票的結果是通過或不通過都不會形成廢除謝謝黃委員下一位請武力華委員發言"},{"start":26672.093,"end":26689.387,"text":"主席各位立院同仁大家好今天在這裡討論公投廢死我覺得很尷尬事實上呢我國沒有廢死一月份也才剛執行死刑歷年來也一直都有判死的案件"},{"start":26690.228,"end":26719.828,"text":"我们来看看去年的9月,宪判自第8号揭示我国司法最高机关对死刑的见解,他说死刑是有条件的核限,也就是刑事程序符合最严密的正当法律程序下,并只适用于犯罪情节最严重程序符合最严密正当法律程序的要求,是可以判处执行死刑的。"},{"start":26720.508,"end":26735.715,"text":"那么这就是宪法法庭他尝试努力打开长久以来关于死刑存废不断争执的结然而我们却看到国民党提出的公投他的主文是"},{"start":26736.328,"end":26755.058,"text":"您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策這個主文內容和廢不廢死到底有何關聯簡單來講根本八幹子打不著叫做文不對題"},{"start":26756.178,"end":26779.65,"text":"就算通過了也不會產生廢死或不廢死的法律效果那麼它就只有一種效果就是我們可以看到國民黨不斷的想要把他們的手伸入司法的意圖沒有權力分立的概念仗著國會多數為所欲為"},{"start":26780.51,"end":26808.224,"text":"用民粹來凌駕司法從去年國會上任以來我們大家都可以看到不斷的修一些違憲的法案毀憲亂政的意圖非常的明顯像是國會擴權選罷法的修惡還癱瘓憲法法庭甚至在用犯罪行為造假罷免聯署書被抓包還要喊說是司法破壞"},{"start":26809.604,"end":26833.854,"text":"講這些就是告訴大家立法院未來的兩年半一直都會這麼亂與其一起葬送台灣的未來倒不如我們來推倒這個高牆來翻轉這個局勢讓我們就在這一次一起的合力大罷免大成功 謝謝"},{"start":26837.176,"end":26838.181,"text":"好 謝謝吳委員下一位請吳啟明委員發言"},{"start":26855.404,"end":26878.748,"text":"好 主席我們全國國人大家好我嚴正的譴責我們在黨在立法院所提出的反會死的公投案這樣的提案完全是多此一擊讓立法院的意識空轉浪費寶貴的公共資源首先台灣目前的法律上仍然存在死刑的制度"},{"start":26879.288,"end":26899.218,"text":"今年1月才剛執行死刑今年的3月也有法官判死死刑並不像在野黨所說的現在是實質的會死而死刑是否執行是由司法與行政機關依照法令針對個案來審慎衡量而定"},{"start":26902.239,"end":26923.228,"text":"那在野黨提出的反會時公投不但無制於制度的改革反而是加深的對立製造的爭議完全是一種政治的操作而在野黨提出的公投內容所寫的你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判決"},{"start":26924.908,"end":26951.436,"text":"處死刑不惜一致解的政策這不是要問要不要廢除死刑而是在做挑戰法院怎麼做出死刑判決的程序這並不是一個可以靠公投決定的政策方向因為依法立法院提公投應該是針對行政機關重大政策而"},{"start":26952.796,"end":26981.27,"text":"法院判決的門檻審判的流程根本不是行政機關的業務反而我們是立法機關自己該用的法例來規範的內容而且就算司法院法務部真的照在野黨的意思推出死刑不息一字節的草案未來這部法例也有可能會被大法官先告違憲"},{"start":26982.771,"end":27011.286,"text":"因為這個法例就是和憲法抵制的解釋抵制這不是要挺不挺死刑的問題而是我們要鎖制司法的獨立憲政的自治的底線如果這個案子過了以後是不是每個法院的程序都可以開放來做公投我們不反對討論死刑的制度"},{"start":27012.486,"end":27027.598,"text":"但這個方向 這個方式真的是不對也走不通在這邊我還慎重的來拜託在野黨會此實行台灣目前沒有會此實行這個議題好 謝謝謝謝吳委員接下來請羅美玲委員發言"},{"start":27050.563,"end":27066.955,"text":"主席各位同仁我們現在要討論的是吳宗憲委員等52人所提案的所謂的反廢死公投案其實這公投案的提案的主文是你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑"},{"start":27067.415,"end":27095.1,"text":"不需以自決之政策基本上這個公投案跟反廢死是無關的可是我們卻看到藍白刻意以這個反廢死來宣傳這個公投案事實上台灣根本就沒有廢除死刑不論是刑法還是刑法訴訟法死刑依舊是法定最高刑法之一卻在多起重大刑案當中法院還是有判處死刑"},{"start":27095.66,"end":27116.862,"text":"那憲法法庭113年憲判自第八號判決一宣告死刑核限因此反廢死跟這個公投其實完全是沒有關係的那公投的這個效果呢只能夠影響政策或是立法在死刑根本沒有廢除的狀況之下呢這個公投案過跟不過"},{"start":27117.683,"end":27143.358,"text":"根本無法達到廢死或反廢死的狀況那更深層的問題是這項公投案可能連形式上都不合憲是無效的根據公投法第15條規定立法院僅能提出針對立法原則之創制及重大政策之創制或覆決所以立法院可以提的是覆決案"},{"start":27144.498,"end":27165.403,"text":"可以提的覆决案是重大政策之覆决如同今天早上也有委员提到就是国民党也知道说这是违反这个公投法所以才会在这个公投主文后面的硬是加上政策两个字可是我想请问大家判处死刑需不需要一致决这是政策吗"},{"start":27166.443,"end":27179.135,"text":"當然不是啊是憲法法庭的這個判決跟政策無關更何況司法審判的獨立性立法院怎麼可以提案來干涉呢而且辦一場公投必須花費9億到10億的這個"},{"start":27182.338,"end":27197.855,"text":"更何況這是一個沒有意義也無效的公投我想我們都支持社會辯論死刑的存廢也不逃避對制度進行檢討改革的責任但我們也必須了解死刑是奪取人生命的刑罰本來就應該要審慎來執行"},{"start":27201.218,"end":27203.5,"text":"再者我们立法机关所做的决定"},{"start":27231.478,"end":27233.46,"text":"謝謝羅委員下一位請陳樹岳委員發言"},{"start":27255.85,"end":27278.527,"text":"謝謝主席還有各位委員大家午安國民黨今天提反廢死公投根本就是假議題因為我們看到台灣目前仍然有死刑我們的刑法陸海空軍刑法毒品危害防治條例槍炮彈藥刀械管制條例兒童及少年性剝削防治條例這些現行法律的條文裡面"},{"start":27279.307,"end":27297.438,"text":"都仍然有處於死刑的刑罰民進黨執政從來也沒有說要廢除死刑到目前也從來沒有任何一位委員提案要廢除死刑所以今天國民黨說要反廢死公投不知道是在反什麼我們來看一下國民黨的公投主文"},{"start":27298.058,"end":27321.69,"text":"是您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策所以這個公投主文並非在詢問同意或不同意廢死今天呢各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑要不要經過一致決來公投操弄等同於反廢死公投還說要作為修法或研議相關配套法案之重要基礎"},{"start":27322.45,"end":27350.55,"text":"明明现行的法律里面都有死刑的刑罚所以不晓得是要修什么法所以这根本就是在诈骗我们看到宪法法庭113年宪判制第8号判决宣告死刑为有条件核限在114年1月16日也才执行枪决黄姓死刑犯所以证明是有死刑的在宪法法庭做出死刑需以自觉的解释之后在今年的3月10号"},{"start":27351.01,"end":27368.608,"text":"高雄地方法院114年度從數字第一號刑事判決何一庭的三名法官也是一致判處無性男子死刑所以這個在在都證明了台灣目前就是有死刑的存在那國民黨今天針對憲法法庭的判決主文"},{"start":27370.109,"end":27390.42,"text":"來推這個公投 再再證明了他們迴憲亂政的行為因為我們看到2018年的11月當時立法院司法法治委員會的會議邀請時任司法院秘書長呂太郎列席立法委員劉世芳有詢問大法官解釋的法律未接與公投案的法律未接哪邊比較高"},{"start":27391.72,"end":27412.227,"text":"呂太郎秘書長當時表示大法官的視線位階比較高大法官解釋是憲法解釋位階效力就是等同憲法是最高層次公投的議題屬於法律原則的創制將來相關政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律不能抵觸大法官解釋"},{"start":27412.987,"end":27437.299,"text":"因為大法官解釋的未接就跟憲法一樣所以在這邊要再次的強調公投案只能決定法律立法原則或重大政策大法官的解釋未接等同憲法根本不可能是公投可以推翻的所以毀憲亂政的藍白立委在立法院的一天國家永如臨日所以要讓國家正常運作國泰民安就是大罷免大成功"},{"start":27456.666,"end":27460.667,"text":"主席 各位議員同仁 各位國人同胞 大家好"},{"start":27461.905,"end":27483.156,"text":"針對國民黨所提的今天的公投案我認為在法治上有以下的幾個問題首先依據我國憲法法庭113年憲判制第八號的判決主文第六點就已經寫得非常的清楚科處死刑的判決應經各級法院和議庭法官的一致決"},{"start":27484.136,"end":27510.052,"text":"這是非常清楚的事情而且我國是法治國家憲法判決具有具屬全國各機關及人民的效力我想在憲政權利分立及法治國的原則下我們作為立法委員更應該要遵守尊重憲法法庭的判決再來公投的議題屬於法律原則的創制公投必須在"},{"start":27511.458,"end":27531.372,"text":"憲法及法律秩序內部進行而且將來相關的政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律不得抵觸大法官憲制及憲法的基本原則所以此案若違背憲法層級的解釋即時通過了相關法律修正亦屬無效而且"},{"start":27532.133,"end":27556.475,"text":"合議制度的原則設計本來就是要保障司法判決是多元觀點與慎重考慮尤其在涉及死刑的重大案件上要求法官一致同意才可判處死刑是為了要確保國家不輕率剝奪人民的生命將死刑判決門檻降低至多數決反而可能會導致冤錯案件機率的上升"},{"start":27557.413,"end":27585.887,"text":"違背程序正義進而損害司法的信賴最後 死刑議題關係到最基本的人權的保障不應該被簡化為政治動員的手段死刑是一種國家權利對生命的最終剝奪應該有最嚴格的程序保障國民黨此次公投案試圖鬆綁司法合一的制度降低國家殺人的門檻"},{"start":27588.108,"end":27610.056,"text":"違憲違法違反情理時不可取我們呼籲全國國人基於對生命尊嚴的尊重對憲政體制的捍衛拒絕此一違憲背離司法正義的公投提案大罷免大成功謝謝王委員下一位我們請陳秀寶委員發言"},{"start":27620.474,"end":27633.826,"text":"主席 各位立院同仁國民黨在過去一年多來不斷與中國離英外合在立法院通過各種民主倒退的法案國民黨為了擴大自己的權力提出國會擴權法案"},{"start":27635.868,"end":27661.128,"text":"被大法官宣告違憲後又繼續提出《憲訴法》實質癱瘓憲法法庭在演難人民的怒火之後為了自己的利益又提出《選罷法》提高罷免門檻上限試圖讓國民黨掌握如共產黨般的獨裁權力國民黨持續以多數的優勢提出癱瘓行政效能削弱台灣國家安全的離譜內容"},{"start":27663.109,"end":27678.934,"text":"14年總預算再遭到在野黨通刪939億其中636億更是無理由的要求行政院自行調整刪減內容顯見在野黨根本就是為刪而刪而根本為就各部會的業務進行實質的監督"},{"start":27681.315,"end":27699.21,"text":"而離島建設條例更是直接開放中國醫生無照來台執業協助中國洗產地讓台灣門戶大開是國家安全人民權益不顧在民眾的怒火之下開始自發性的對國民黨進行大罷免"},{"start":27699.73,"end":27716.867,"text":"多數的藍營區域立委都已經達到二階罷免門檻這個時候國民黨又試圖轉移民眾的焦點不敢透過全民連署只敢利用立法院的多數優勢用取巧的方式提出空殼公投案"},{"start":27717.987,"end":27741.038,"text":"創制、復決是憲法保障的人民基本權利所以公投案是由人民提案為原則立法院雖然可以提案交付人民公投但必須是對國家重要政策而且以不違反憲法權利分立原則為前提這個假議題的公投案侵犯了司法權違反權利分立原則"},{"start":27741.798,"end":27760.533,"text":"而且是文不對題的假公投各級法院和議庭法官判決是否一字決與廢除死刑完全無關更何況台灣沒有廢除死刑何來反廢死的說法國民黨以假公投欺騙民眾轉移罷免的焦點"},{"start":27762.014,"end":27787.365,"text":"奉勸國民黨不要再做背離人心的政治操作放下對權力的執著放下自身的利益才能跟民眾站在一起我們要捍衛台灣珍貴的民主自由請罷免胡適任立委大罷免大成功好 謝謝陳秀寶委員下一位請范雲委員發言"},{"start":27800.043,"end":27827.345,"text":"國民黨提出的公投就是愚民公投就是詐騙公投而且它的公投文本身有三個違反第一違反公投精神公投的核心是讓人民行使直接民權讓沒有行政權與立法權的公民有機會提出國民黨作為民代作為立委連公投的核心都不知道連法律都不會看"},{"start":27828.146,"end":27855.774,"text":"法學者很多早就站出來講有法學者說這個公投主文醜態百出東吳大學法學院的特聘教授張嘉穎甚至用狗屁不通來形容這個公投主文國民黨自己作為國會多數不敢自己提修法只敢投機取巧濫用公投法給的優待連自己動員連署都不敢是逃避責任"},{"start":27857.045,"end":27873.508,"text":"第二,這個公投違反公投法本身,立法院提出的公投很明確的只能針對重大政策創制覆決,也就是目前政府沒有在做的要做,已經在做的廢止。"},{"start":27874.409,"end":27891.168,"text":"那現在的何怡婷一致決根本不是重大政策創制覆決它是憲法法庭判決的結果那這種詐騙公投形式上就違反公投法的相關要件第三 違反憲政秩序"},{"start":27892.189,"end":27911.846,"text":"憲法法庭的判決的未接等同憲法效力比公投還高今天就算公投投出結果也可能就是違憲所以它根本就是浪費公帑的無效公投那國民黨連這個都不知道嗎我不相信同樣的很多的法學者已經說"},{"start":27913.147,"end":27935.655,"text":"國民黨其中一位講國民黨的公投案明顯違憲就像寫在額頭上跟反Face無關只是要進行認知作戰這不是我們立委講的是學者講的學者也批評立法院作為國家機關把有違憲疑慮的法案交由公民投票職權行使有違憲的嫌疑"},{"start":27938.001,"end":27958.46,"text":"最後我們要呼籲所有在看轉播的公民請大家告訴大家藍白立委今天要闖關詐騙公投愚弄人民就是為了反制大罷免他們要動員支持者的感情要愚弄支持者的智慧他們真正害怕的就是大罷免"},{"start":27959.241,"end":27979.962,"text":"面對這種違憲違反公投法形式違反公投法精神的公投案我想只有人民可以教訓他們所以我還是只有一句話該罷就罷大罷免大成功謝謝好謝謝范委員下一位請吳秉瑞委員發言"},{"start":27992.455,"end":28018.925,"text":"主席各位同仁我今天要來揭穿這個提案人的滿口的謊言他這次吳宗憲委員所提出的這個公投主文是你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策其實他這個就是在扭曲因為這個是憲法法庭的判決內容根本就不是一個政策"},{"start":28019.81,"end":28048.211,"text":"那他為什麼要這樣寫呢他因為要把它包裝成說他是在創製一個政策的這個外貌以符合這個公投法規定必須要包裝必須要是創製法律政策的外貌所以他討論的東西根本就不是一個政策是一個憲法法庭的判決那憲法法庭的判決他是憲法層次的剛剛很多委員都講過了"},{"start":28049.412,"end":28078.405,"text":"法律跟命令抵觸憲法者無效憲法法庭就可以宣告法律跟命令違憲那全國各機關還有人民都要受到憲法法庭的拘束結果你現在把憲法法庭的判決拿來當作公投的政策這根本就也違反了憲法這個法律違憲的概念法律跟政策抵觸憲法者無效這我想是基本常識如果連這個都不知道那他的憲法是在學什麼呢"},{"start":28079.165,"end":28108.129,"text":"吳宗孝委員在提案說明的時候說全世界民主國家都沒有要求死刑判決必須一致決我就跟你講說你就是扯瞞天大謊全世界的法律基本上分成兩大法系我們台灣這個大陸法系是先有成文法後面再進入每一個個案的時候依照成文法來判決另外還有一個很大的體系叫做英美法系他們的採取主要是陪審團制度"},{"start":28108.829,"end":28129.009,"text":"我想沒有看過大家都要嘗試啦陪審團就是明確連有沒有成立犯罪都必須陪審團一字決更不要講說判死刑必須一字決所以吳宗憲在那邊講說全世界的民主國家沒有這樣的制度我想問美國 英國"},{"start":28131.091,"end":28154.82,"text":"這些國家不是民主國家嗎他們的國家裡面要判決被告有罪還不是死刑喔就必須是全體陪審團一致的決定所以提案人在這個地方提案說明的時候滿天扯謊然後用這樣子詐欺的方式要來通過這個公投案然後讓人民來公投我想說喔"},{"start":28155.814,"end":28180.963,"text":"司法官特考很遺憾還有這些法律系的學生他說曾經當過檢察官是因為沒有考憲法嗎所以對憲法不知道嗎我覺得不是啦是他很壞利用這樣的扭曲利用大家的資訊落差要達到他這個惡搞的目的所以大罵免大成功好 謝謝吳委員下一位請賴慧如委員發言"},{"start":28188.154,"end":28203.872,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我們要面對的要表決的是國民黨自以為反會死的公投案主文是你是否同意各級法院和議題法官的判處死刑不需要一致"},{"start":28204.753,"end":28221.216,"text":"的政策坦白說這根本就是一個法律上的一個荒謬還有政治上的一個虛假民主上失格的一個公民頭案首先就法律面來講這項主文本來就是錯的我相信很多"},{"start":28222.506,"end":28239.984,"text":"民進黨的同仁把這一個在法律上層面錯誤的一個議題講得非常的清楚了這個不是行政院的政策也不是立法院的立法決定而是憲法法庭在去年9月20號所做成的一個判決的要求"},{"start":28240.865,"end":28265.135,"text":"是憲法層級的一個要求是我們對人權的最低的一個底線可是國民黨卻把憲法層級的一個司法判決扭曲成可以用公投表決的一個政策這個不只是一個錯誤更是憲法上不斷不斷的一個錯誤更進一步的講當法官並沒有宣告死刑是違憲的"},{"start":28266.195,"end":28291.975,"text":"甚至在今年的一夜 臺灣也有把死刑患被依法執行換句話說 臺灣並沒有賄死也沒有賄死的法律條文國民黨卻打著反賄死的大旗 發動了公投請問你們到底在反什麼你們是在反賄死 還是在反事實還是在反憲法 反罷免 反失業呢"},{"start":28294.054,"end":28321.533,"text":"說得清楚一點這就是一場假議題的政治操作什麼是緩會死什麼是緩戒嚴說穿了就是國民黨怕被罷免怕對人民的怒火所以才用急著用公投去綁救援用社會對正義的關心來轉移焦點騙取同情我想在這裡我們大家看得很清楚人民的眼睛是血亮的人民受不了違憲的藍白"},{"start":28323.955,"end":28347.476,"text":"惡搞國家 人民受夠了各位國人讓我們一起用罷免教訓這些失格的立委大罷免 大成功好 謝謝麥委員下一位請林黛樺委員發言林黛樺委員林黛樺委員不在我們請邱志維委員發言"},{"start":28364.522,"end":28386.008,"text":"好 謝謝最近常常感冒並不是我體弱多病是我憂國憂民過去一年多來我個人感覺立法院四處都充滿了瀰漫的病毒這病毒各種各樣的"},{"start":28387.267,"end":28413.658,"text":"有禍國殃民的 有迴旋亂政的有削弱國家安全 削弱國家主權破壞社會團結 破壞國家經濟成長的各種病毒作為少數病毒的消毒者我戰戰兢兢 全力以赴希望把立法院瀰漫的病毒一掃而空"},{"start":28414.915,"end":28435.029,"text":"作為一個少數病毒者我們一定全力以赴而且是死命必達本身雖苦也在所不惜希望大罵免一定要大成功島嶼啊 再次來天光今天討論各級法院"},{"start":28436.704,"end":28451.801,"text":"法院法官判諸死刑不須以自決的公投提案大家都說過了不管是憲法的內容憲法的解釋公民投票法相關的規定非常明確這樣的公投是一個毀憲違法亂證的低級公投詐騙公投"},{"start":28457.992,"end":28482.327,"text":"是試圖用公投作為掩蓋藍白過去一年多毀憲亂政的遮羞布以這公投作為影響大罷免的武器各位啊 這種愚蠢的做法是騙不了有智慧的台灣人民最近常常去職棒球場看職棒不管是哪一隊"},{"start":28483.7,"end":28509.037,"text":"都是挺台灣 大家為這個土地去努力打拚大多是年輕學子 很多是年輕夫婦他們擔憂在未來他們的居家貸款他們育兒福利會不會受到影響他們台灣的國家安全會不會受到影響但是我在球場上面感受到他們的正面能量他們對國家是充滿信心的"},{"start":28510.441,"end":28536.506,"text":"但是為什麼這次有風起雲湧的大罷免全國各區域的國民黨的立委都遭受到大罷免第二局段因為你們作為已經得到全體的人民的唾棄剛好我去看球賽碰到我隔壁的被他認出來我說請問住哪裡我住基隆啊"},{"start":28537.819,"end":28549.302,"text":"那我們都是社會病人人說對啊 我們都是社會病人人那不要忘了喔拿出你的選票去罷免在一趴優秀的好 謝謝邱委員接下來請陳昭智委員發言"},{"start":28575.404,"end":28588.722,"text":"主席 各位同事台灣民眾黨一向主張人民是頭家我也主張重大的政策尤其對於爭議強烈政府一意孤行但多項的民意調查卻顯示"},{"start":28590.885,"end":28605.084,"text":"這項政策跟多數的民意是不符合的這個時候就應該交付全民來做決定去年大法官做出死刑需個審及一致判決引起很多人的憤怒"},{"start":28606.346,"end":28631.72,"text":"這就是實質的廢死民進黨如果要廢死就大大方方的修法不需要透過幾位御用的大法官用個人的意志跟價值在法律程序上搞幾個小動作直接輾壓直接凌駕八成以上的民意此行需要一致決這是台灣幾乎獨創的制度廢死與否這麼重大的社會議題"},{"start":28633.574,"end":28649.141,"text":"這麼多人關心的議題當然應該交給全國人民來做決定這樣才符合我數十年來長期支持的那個政黨的人民做主的主張那個政黨的名字一開頭就叫民主"},{"start":28650.27,"end":28671.641,"text":"民主進步黨在野的時候民主進步黨選票還贏不了人家的時候他們就主張公投如果我說民進黨是公投起家也不為過當年民進黨為了爭取公投甚至集體絕食抗議害我們支持者不忍心急著忙著去送水去支持"},{"start":28673.038,"end":28691.54,"text":"呼籲民進黨你們可以支持廢死你們可以反對這次公投案內容你們也可以提出自己的版本但是你不能阻止人民心事公投的權利為什麼不能公投你們在怕什麼你們對大罵名有信心難道對這個公投案就沒有信心嗎"},{"start":28693.573,"end":28722.393,"text":"請各位支持這個反死刑以自決的公投案交付全民決定請記得反犯死不等於反公投我們只是讓這件事訴諸民意讓我們共同捍衛民主價值讓人民當家作主真正的實現大公投大成功大公投大成功大公投大成功好 謝謝"},{"start":28725.475,"end":28754.024,"text":"下一位我們請張祺凱委員發言當去年大法官憲法法庭做了實質會使台灣的民意沸騰那時候的民調高達九成的民眾"},{"start":28755.677,"end":28781.352,"text":"都是持反對意見的我不曉得民進黨為什麼反對這樣一個反對實質廢死的一個公投在大法官被提名人審查期間我跟國民黨的吳宗憲吳委員我們辦了公聽會包括邀請大法官的被提名人還有"},{"start":28782.964,"end":28811.293,"text":"一些受害者的家屬希望可以面對面的溝通我到現在還是很心疼心痛包括那時候來參加我們公聽會的施斗獎女教師她的先生還有她的小孩還有台南兩位警察英勇信職的悲慘的事情"},{"start":28812.677,"end":28836.255,"text":"家屬們一邊講一邊哭一方面他們非常生氣為什麼大法官離人民這麼遠為什麼離受害者家屬的心情這麼這麼的遙遠無視於他們長久來受到的悲痛跟折磨"},{"start":28838.232,"end":28854.59,"text":"當法律跟民進黨站在加害者的這一邊漠視了被害者的受到折磨跟心情就跟這次一樣我們希望透過公投讓全民直接民意的反應好好來討論"},{"start":28856.601,"end":28881.186,"text":"你是我同意各級法院合議庭的法官判處死刑不應該是一字決因為去年引起民意沸騰的就是大法官們做了需要有三級的法官全部都是要同意那根本就是一個實質的廢死這跟民進黨從蔡英文主政開始積極在推動廢死"},{"start":28885.325,"end":28895.127,"text":"事實上有某些先進國家沒有錯廢死是一條漫長的路可是第一個你要得到整個社會的共識而且要求得"},{"start":28896.326,"end":28925.587,"text":"受害者他們的一些聲音你要把所有的事情配套做好的才去推動結果民進黨不是用劇劍華馬上的極力的這個推動弄出了一個去年的實質廢食這次是一個補破網的機會一方面展現了人民的憤怒一方面我們心疼我們希望可以幫受害者家屬請大家支持這次的公投案你是否同意各級法院何玉婷"},{"start":28932.947,"end":28934.914,"text":"好,謝謝張委員現在為我們請吳宗憲委員發言"},{"start":28943.666,"end":28969.135,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想我們自己提出來的提案我們當然會予以捍衛當然本來社會議題就有很多種不同的面向就如同我們在看法律學說的時候本來就假說與說秉說每一個學說就是為自己所希望的方向去捍衛至於採取不同學說不同想法或否定見解的人我們就予以尊重"},{"start":28969.955,"end":28997.143,"text":"那整個討論到現在其實我聽了非常多立委同仁大家的說法那我發現其實有一個東西大家可能在認定上面還是有一些可能有一些誤會例如其實法律上面有分為法定刑、宣告刑還有確定之後的執行那大家今天有提到說今年二月確實有一個被告被槍決但是這個槍決他是屬於判決確定之後的執行這個跟"},{"start":28998.763,"end":29021.17,"text":"我國憲法有沒有法律有沒有實質廢死其實這個是兩回事跟我國法律是不是還有死刑的存在存廢也都是兩回事其實這東西其實不太一樣所以我們不能用有一個人被槍決然後我們去推論說其實我國沒有廢死那當然從法定刑的角度來看我國確實是沒有廢除死刑那只是我們一直認為從憲判8號他所"},{"start":29024.411,"end":29045.485,"text":"大法官所得出來的結論他就是認為死刑需要經過一致決然後在參酌其實法律上面有一個叫做不利益變更禁止原則所以可能會導致將來要判死刑在實際上面變成一個幾乎是不可能的任務這也是這一次為什麼我們必須要提出來我們希望我們就以"},{"start":29046.245,"end":29064.115,"text":"賴清德總統他的邏輯他希望很多事情必須訴諸更大的民意那我們今天其實就是跟著賴清德的腳步在走我們希望訴求更大的民意所以我們希望把這個憲判八號所得出來這個結論我們希望來訴諸全民的想法來做"},{"start":29065.275,"end":29085.409,"text":"當然也有很多人談到迴憲亂政其實我一直覺得迴憲亂政什麼叫迴憲亂政很多時候你拿憲法裡面的罷免權來濫用把人民的罷免權當作政治的武器這反而才是迴憲亂政的一個行為當然我們也尊重大家最後的做法但是我們從頭到尾我們就是不認同"},{"start":29086.65,"end":29110.524,"text":"那另外就是有關權力之間的彼此分立以及立法權監督行政權你不讓立法權監督行政權或不准他在預算上面去實質的審核這個才是違憲亂政這一直以來我們都是這麼的認為最後我還是希望我們要向政府宣示的是一個核心的道理就是如果你沒有能力保障人民不被無端的殺死"},{"start":29111.505,"end":29131.095,"text":"那你就必須確保殺人犯在殺人之後有可能被法院判死而不是剝奪了法庭的這個權利而不是剝奪了法庭的這個權利那你也要給人民一個免於恐懼的自由這是憲法的基本人權 謝謝好 謝謝吳委員接下來請羅志強委員發言"},{"start":29147.315,"end":29172.237,"text":"杜成哲詐騙集團,居近61位受騙民眾。餵食毒品,用燒紅的鐵棍燙肚子。電擊,有三個人慘遭虐死、棄屍。如此慘絕人寰、泯滅人性的惡行,高等法院、二審法院的判決沒有實行。"},{"start":29173.7,"end":29199.15,"text":"一歲男童凱凱招保姆姐妹寧願致死凱凱被保姆長時間罰站如有不從就打罵走路叫慢就推他撞牆推頭撞地只能吃剩飯冬天被迫裸體身上一共42處新舊傷連生殖器都受傷瘦成皮包骨"},{"start":29200.216,"end":29226.506,"text":"台大醫師都感嘆從來沒有見過這麼嚴重的人為暴力但是因為檢方是以寧月兒童致死罪起訴他的最高刑是無期徒刑最後法官雖然認為保母姐妹以虐取樂為害甚懼一審仍然是保母姐妹是用無期徒刑跟18年徒刑"},{"start":29227.844,"end":29255.115,"text":"我們現在的刑事司法政策已經完全向加害人侵犯不顧被害者的暗夜悲歌一輩子坐於陰柴善良正直的私奪獎女老師被殘忍殺害兇手五度被判處死刑你知道是誰救了她嗎就是大法官大法官做出實質廢死的憲法判決後"},{"start":29257.372,"end":29285.711,"text":"最高法院直接說他要依照大法官的憲判意旨於是改判兇手免死定業受害女教師的丈夫說真正的無期徒刑是殺人犯對家屬造成的無期的傷痛司法沒有還給家屬公道而是帶給他們無期的傷痛"},{"start":29286.809,"end":29314.339,"text":"所以今天為什麼我們提出了這個反實質廢死反對大法官以自己的想法要求死刑判決一字決的這個公投我們就是要告訴今天高高在上的大法官以及今天把廢死放進黨綱裡面的民進黨你們請聽聽人民八成的廢死的名義"},{"start":29315.714,"end":29333.545,"text":"不要把公投當作洪水猛獸謙卑的聽聽人民對於今天民進黨實質廢死的憤怒希望我們的公投凝聚民意讓我們的正義可以貫徹謝謝羅委員接下來請劉許廷委員發言"},{"start":29344.367,"end":29371.884,"text":"謝謝主席今天我們聚集在此支持反廢死公投我們必須捍衛社會的公平與正義我們要先跟大家說說大搞實質廢死的憲判第八號是怎麼來的是民進黨在完全執政的時代輕易放行廢死大法官通過的一個結果總統提名的每位大法官都需要經過立法院的審查之後才通過然而在民進黨執政的時期"},{"start":29374.026,"end":29402.447,"text":"黨議是壓倒性的他們對於八成民意反對死刑的訴求置若罔聞在審查的過程中自甘淪為橡皮圖章以至於這批大法官欠缺真正的民意基礎在五大憲政機關中立法院是唯一受到人民直接選舉的機構立法委員每天傾聽民意並對選民負責立法委員的聲音本來就要貼近人民的心聲但司法"},{"start":29403.408,"end":29431.355,"text":"我們相信司法不應該是被害人追求正義的工具更是對社會秩序的信任因此在上一輪的大法官的投票是否廢死是在野力量法官的重要指標即便我們要被批評是毀憲亂政甚至變成所謂大罷免的理由我們都要堅持原則因為我們清楚如果我們的司法體系失去了公信力當政府無法為被害人伸張正義時"},{"start":29432.615,"end":29451.253,"text":"社會的公平正義也就無從談起過去八年民進黨大喊司法改革卻讓人民對於司法的信任蕩然無存他們透過大法官釋憲的方式變相廢除死刑完全違背人民對於公平正義的期待"},{"start":29452.074,"end":29477.251,"text":"我們相信司法不應該成為政黨或是任何個人追求理想的工具它應該代表的是全體人民全體社會的公平正義民進黨過去的做法不僅未能推動司法的改革反而讓體系大幅倒退如果我們繼續無視人民對於司法不公的訴求跟怒火那恐怕司法的公信力將會進一步的消失"},{"start":29477.967,"end":29497.269,"text":"我更要強調維繫司法公信力的努力不只是立法委員的工作跟責任單靠我們是不夠的我們必須站出來讓全民共同支持反對實質廢死的公投讓人民的聲音至少有一個清楚表達的機會"},{"start":29498.61,"end":29525.178,"text":"讓我們滿漢無能的政府看到人民對於司法不公的焦慮讓我們的政府正視司法無法維持正義的警鐘如此才能讓真正的公平正義回到我們的社會讓我們一起努力為未來發聲為公平正義而戰謝謝大家好 謝謝劉委員接下來請賴司法委員發言"},{"start":29540.406,"end":29569.467,"text":"謝謝主席 江副院長我們都看到啊這個廢死大家都了解廢死是民進黨的黨綱啊行動綱領26條寫得很清楚啊民進黨要廢死啊各位不要忘了所以三十幾位判死刑的在蔡英文時代幾乎沒有執行賴清德時代"},{"start":29571.863,"end":29593.949,"text":"這個槍斃的少數一兩位有個交代因為知道人民火大啦超過八成的人都反對廢死啊因為民進黨只重視加害者的人權完全漠視被害人的人權民進黨的行動綱領26條寫得這麼的清楚如果民進黨"},{"start":29600.297,"end":29603.601,"text":"說不是這樣子那拜託你們修黨綱把二十六條廢掉"},{"start":29605.356,"end":29634.514,"text":"大家都了解你們找一堆理由就是要廢死所謂的進步價值進步時代就是你們扛著進步價值來跟民意對幹這是我們清楚看得到的 第一點第二點這大法官的解釋變成一個實質廢死要所有的個庭都要廢死都要死刑才能夠判死刑這個跟民意完全對重"},{"start":29635.546,"end":29658.726,"text":"民意不支持的所有的政府所有的單位都是為服務人民而存在的當人民的意志是反對Face的時候大法官居然玩文字遊戲大法官舔不支持大法官只是要kissDPP的SRE"},{"start":29660.497,"end":29682.635,"text":"丟臉啦大法官大法官現在已經變成社會的亂源大法官只要解釋一出社會彼亂大法官變成一群妖魔鬼怪因為他們就是要kissDPP執政黨的S這樣而已啦因為大法官想要繼續當大法官想要升官 想要當官"},{"start":29683.888,"end":29706.945,"text":"可恥讓人家瞧不起現在來講大法官本來是很重要維持社會公平正義的最後一道防線結果現在大法官製作件成為執政者的出口啊大法官就是這個樣子看民進黨風向怎麼吹他就跟著怎麼走你不會解決嗎來我替你解決"},{"start":29708.55,"end":29730.209,"text":"一方面又變成一個執政的民進黨的為事者就是大法官他今天做出這樣子的一個解釋人民當然有權利出來公投說I say NO大家一起來支持這次的公投案謝謝謝謝賴委員下一位請徐巧欣委員發言"},{"start":29739.552,"end":29759.512,"text":"謝謝主席也想要跟在這個社會上面因為實質廢死而受到改判或者是原來以為自己的公道會被證明而但在實質廢死的大法官釋憲之後感到失望的所有朋友們那希望你們可以一起來關心這個議題"},{"start":29761.414,"end":29785.857,"text":"民進黨說有死刑啊前一陣子不是才槍決了幾位要犯嗎以此聲稱這個公投沒有意義是在玩弄文字遊戲現在槍決的死刑犯是以前就已經定讞的但在大法官釋憲變成實質廢死一致決才能夠死刑之後未來死刑還會再有嗎社會上都非常的存疑"},{"start":29786.741,"end":29804.812,"text":"要違反社會台灣的八成民意卻又不敢承擔社會上的責難與反彈這一群大法官無異於就是知法玩法設下了八大關卡包含只是用犯罪情節更嚴重程序要符合最嚴密的"},{"start":29805.592,"end":29827.433,"text":"程序要求然后呢包含每一省都要一致决如果有精神障碍心智缺陷等等都不能处以死刑所以未来再被判死刑可以说是难上加难很多的被害者不断的出来发声说着他的委屈但我们的政府我们的大法官没有听到我今天讲给大家听"},{"start":29828.427,"end":29855.176,"text":"第一个案子2022年8月22号台南沙检图二检我替他说是他亲笔写下的信我替他念他说事发至今还是常想起明晨和瑞节会非常难过三月的天气是凉爽的我比较喜欢因为太阳很大很热的时候我都会忍不住的想那一天他们满身是伤的躺在地上心里有多么的痛苦跟绝望"},{"start":29856.076,"end":29875.546,"text":"現在的我坐在這裡的心情有他們的萬分之一嗎明成的脖子動脈靜脈被割斷血流個不停還是盡力的到警車裡面去按報警瑞潔身中38刀頭顱胸膛被刺手掌幾乎被砍斷等到來支援的同事他說的是先救學長"},{"start":29877.013,"end":29901.18,"text":"這樣的法律犯決會鳴鼎名城和銳傑身為警察的信念懇請庭上不要讓他們榮譽感和責任心變成笑話請面對這樣的犯罪行為除以死刑這也是被害者家屬的唯一心願司法機關監護維護社區的功能請面對重大惡行唯有死刑的正確執行才能彰顯功利與功利2025年3月9號圖怡婷寫下來的"},{"start":29905.501,"end":29921.309,"text":"我還有兩個案子,未來有機會會繼續跟大家分享這斑斑血淚都是在告訴我們大法官不敢承擔八成的民意反彈卻又要實質廢死,多可惡所以我們需要用公投來告訴大家事實的真相,謝謝"},{"start":29934.224,"end":29937.329,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":29942.335,"end":29970.001,"text":"主席各位立院宣敬同仁以及媒體朋友大家好剛剛一整天聽到民進黨輪番委員上陣50位左右的一個發言但發言的內容感覺好像就是用CHAPGTP一樣複製貼上50個講稿重點還是只有一個我們到底要不要尊重公投的直接民意我們要不要尊重公投的直接民權以及台灣社會能不能接受實質的廢死"},{"start":29972.101,"end":29998.779,"text":"這兩個問題的答案其實都是否定的第一當然要尊重直接民權因為公投過去到現在民進黨在野的時候不是最想強調公投就是直接人民權利的展現公投就是應該要至高無上的公投就是應該要大家都尊重的這也是政府如果當今天跟民意背道而馳坐在冷氣房裡面高高在上聽不到民意的時候"},{"start":29999.279,"end":30027.395,"text":"人民能夠站出來用公投的直接名義告訴政府你方向做錯了第二個部分我們當然也知道台灣社會有沒有廢死的空間很抱歉我們必須要說不管民進黨政府拿出什麼樣華麗堂皇的一個數據或是講言辭但重點台灣社會在目前為止就是沒有廢死的條件"},{"start":30028.015,"end":30044.628,"text":"甚至我記得在第十屆我們在司法法治委員會質詢的時候法務部的書面報告還公然的講說廢死是現在台灣趨勢跟民意我就直接問部長你的趨勢你的民意從何而來部長答不出來"},{"start":30045.837,"end":30068.038,"text":"換言之不要再偷渡不要再想要試圖操弄以為人民能夠接受所謂的廢死的一個議題事實上我們現在就沒有廢死的空間而更重要近年頻繁發生的虐童案超過11萬名的網友在公共政策參與平台上面連署希望加重虐童的刑責"},{"start":30068.959,"end":30085.311,"text":"有在該平台上面連署的朋友就非常的清楚超過10萬人以上的連署代表什麼意思非常困難也代表著大家對於虐童案件高度的憤怒而且沒有辦法接受我們就更應該提出來虐童應該要"},{"start":30089.035,"end":30109.993,"text":"所以每當有重大的一個刑案人們都希望犯人能夠受到應有的制裁更重要也希望藉由死刑來嚇阻重大犯罪的行為不期待犯罪預防犯罪才是人民希望安居樂業的心理期待所以今天我們討論公投絕對不是假議題"},{"start":30110.814,"end":30135.452,"text":"是要讓國家 讓政府看到真實的民意反對實質廢死 要求公平正義如果現在在執政的委員要來反對這樣的公投 我們不同意廢死我們更想要否決公...好 謝謝洪委員下一位請林淑飛委員"},{"start":30139.517,"end":30142.881,"text":"林淑芬委員請林淑芬委員發言"},{"start":30161.889,"end":30177.266,"text":"好 那我今天是最後一個我今天要來講說這是國民黨和民眾黨最大的荒謬今天的荒謬是大家都知道公投是創自負絕權要給人民行使的可是政府一來"},{"start":30178.287,"end":30203.39,"text":"並沒有要廢除死刑第二個這個國家的死刑也在所以並沒有所謂的覆決的這個權利的必要性第二個立法委員本身就有武器立法委員本身就可以立法和修法如果覺得法律不夠你就直接提案修法如果覺得憲法不完整你就提修憲就是這樣子而已立委本身有自身的這個權利"},{"start":30204.551,"end":30231.019,"text":"不行使卻要做政治操作把這個權利假裝讓人民來決定這是相當的荒謬和可笑所以這是一個假議題不存在的議題純粹是為了政治鬥爭而操作的所以今天在這裡我們想在野黨最大的不負責任就是假裝直接民主卻把自己的權利不行使因為這是一個假議題謝謝"},{"start":30236.675,"end":30253.761,"text":"好 謝謝林委員報告院會林黛嬅委員之書面發言列入公報紀錄報告院會登記發言的委員均已發言完畢廣泛討論結束報告院會本案"},{"start":30255.163,"end":30270.303,"text":"吳宗憲委員等人所提公民投票提案現有民進黨黨團依據立法院職權行使法第九條規定提議將本案撤銷現在進行表決按零七分鐘並分發表決卡"},{"start":30702.332,"end":30718.058,"text":"好 我們請議事委員再確認一下是不是都已經拿到表決卡有請各位委員確認是不是都已經拿到表決卡如果都沒有問題我們現在針對民進黨黨團對本案撤銷之提議進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":30733.453,"end":30733.494,"text":"好球"},{"start":30805.339,"end":30832.085,"text":"表決結果出席102人贊成48人反對54人贊成者少數民進黨黨團提議不通過報告院會現有國民黨黨團提議本案照案通過現在進行表決進行表決時間一分鐘"},{"start":30851.21,"end":30854.611,"text":"現在針對國民黨黨團提議詐案通過進行表決現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":30927.213,"end":30949.512,"text":"報告院會表決結果出席102人贊成54人反對48人贊成者多數國民黨黨團提議照案通過報告院會本案吳宗憲委員等人所提公民投票提案作以下決議照案通過"},{"start":30955.182,"end":30982.075,"text":"報告院會現由本院委員傅坤祺等人針對本案之決議提出附議並請院會隨即表決處理報告院會現在進行處理本件附議案現在進行表決針對委員傅坤祺等人所提附議案現由民進黨黨團要求記名表決記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":31059.619,"end":31083.213,"text":"表決結果初期102人贊成48人反對54人贊成者少數,附議案不通過報告院會本案完成程序後由委員登記發言並截止發言登記每位委員發言時間兩分鐘我們首先請林黛樺委員發言"},{"start":31086.477,"end":31086.777,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":31098.667,"end":31123.568,"text":"本席非常遺憾今天通過這樣的法律那對於這個假議題我們現有的法令就沒有這個反對使行的一個判決跟執行但是還是很遺憾國民黨利用多數的這樣的一個濫權而通過這樣的法律所以本席針對這樣的一個結果表達遺憾 謝謝"},{"start":31126.664,"end":31137.371,"text":"好 謝謝林委員同時 劉委員建國聲明對剛才之表決與民進黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄下一位請陳冠廷委員發言"},{"start":31146.891,"end":31173.619,"text":"各位同仁 大家好其實憲法法庭在113年憲判制第八號判決中它對死刑的科處還有執行有設置的條件不管我們對判決內容有什麼看法我們必須認知到憲法法庭的判決具有拘束全國各機關的還有人民的效力它位就是等同於憲法的這是我們國家的法治七處也是每一位從政人都必須要捍衛的核心價值"},{"start":31174.699,"end":31191.772,"text":"那我當然是支持死刑但是正因為我支持死刑我才認為說每一件死刑的判決他必須要經過最嚴格的檢驗讓他的程序正義無懈可擊這才是我們應該努力的方向不是去推動一個既違背法制又引發憲政的這個爭議的公投"},{"start":31193.914,"end":31207.317,"text":"那我既然支持此行我們就是希望說不要有這樣子的冤獄那所以說更謹慎的這樣的做法其實也是相信是憲法法庭他當初的原則跟他的努力"},{"start":31208.018,"end":31235.903,"text":"那我還是強調我們從過去到現在從未改變說我們支持死刑的立場但是怎麼樣去實踐我們必須要更嚴肅的來看待這個法治國家的基本原則那還有另外一點就是說公民投票的結果不可以凌駕或改變憲法法庭所擁立的這個憲法秩序那如果我們今天允許透過公投來變動或者是挑戰其他的釋憲結果"},{"start":31236.983,"end":31258.514,"text":"那是不是可以未來也推翻其他重大的憲政原則我想以上都是我們必須要注意的那謝謝各位好 謝謝陳委員報告委員會我們登記發言的委員均已發言完畢另外張委員自論聲明對剛才的表決與國民黨黨團意見一致列入公報記錄"},{"start":31261.479,"end":31268.848,"text":"抱怨會依黨團共事本日會議進行到此為止5月20日星期二上午9時繼續開會進行後續討論事項現在休息"}]}},{"id":"161520","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161520","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746ea6bdd046ea81317b8e2d73ce5d96c5ba61988edb4e2f0bed9cc7248204e3c0a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"17:09:28 - 17:11:14","影片長度":"00:01:46","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T17:09:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T17:11:14+08:00","duration":106,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.333468750000002,"end":19.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.94346875,"end":36.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.548468750000005,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.60721875,"end":50.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.790968750000005,"end":69.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.85971875,"end":71.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.91846875,"end":82.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.25846875,"end":105.76971875000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.268,"end":4.233,"text":"好 好好"},{"start":8.799,"end":35.53,"text":"各位同仁 大家好其實憲法法庭在2013年憲判制第八號判決中它對死刑的科處還有執行有設置的條件不管我們對判決內容有什麼看法我們必須認知到憲法法庭的判決具有拘束全國各機關的還有人民的效力它位就是等同於憲法的這是我們國家的法治七處也是每一位從政人都必須要捍衛的核心價值"},{"start":36.61,"end":53.678,"text":"那我當然是支持死刑但是正因為我支持死刑我才認為說每一件死刑的判決他必須要經過最嚴格的檢驗讓他的程序正義無懈可擊這才是我們應該努力的方向不是去推動一個既違背法制又引發憲政的這個爭議的公投"},{"start":55.819,"end":69.217,"text":"那我既然支持實行我們就是希望說不要有這樣子的冤獄那所以說更謹慎的這樣的做法其實也是相信是憲法法庭他當初的原則跟他的努力"},{"start":69.929,"end":97.814,"text":"那我還是強調我們從過去到現在從未改變說我們支持死刑的立場但是怎麼樣去實踐我們必須要更嚴肅的來看待這個法治國家的基本原則那還有另外一點就是說公民投票的結果不可以凌駕或改變憲法法庭所擁立的這個憲法秩序那如果我們今天允許透過公投來變動或者是挑戰其他的釋憲結果"},{"start":98.894,"end":105.416,"text":"那是不是可以未來也推翻其他重大的憲政原則以上這是我們必須要注意的那謝謝各位"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":282,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（17時9分）各位同仁，大家好。其實憲法法庭在113年憲判字第8號判決中，它對死刑的科處還有執行有設置條件，不管我們對判決內容有什麼看法，我們必須認知到，憲法法庭的判決具有拘束全國各機關和人民的效力，它的位階是等同於憲法的，這是我們國家的法治基礎，也是每一個從政者都必須捍衛的核心價值。","我當然支持死刑，但正因為支持死刑，我才認為每一件死刑的判決都必須經過最嚴格的檢驗，讓它的程序正義無懈可擊，這才是我們應該努力的方向，而不是去推動一個既違背法治又引發憲政爭議的公投。我既然支持死刑，就希望不要有冤獄，所以更謹慎的做法其實相信也是憲法法庭當初的原則和努力。","我還是強調，我們從過去到現在，從未改變支持死刑的立場，但是怎麼樣去實踐？我們必須更嚴肅地來看待這一個法治國家的基本原則。還有另外一點就是，公民投票的結果不可以凌駕或改變憲法法庭所擁立的憲法秩序，如果我們今天允許透過公投來變動或者是挑戰其他的釋憲結果，是不是未來也可以推翻其他的重大憲政原則？","以上就是我們必須要注意的。謝謝各位。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","報告院會，登記發言委員均已發言完畢。","另外，張委員智倫聲明對剛才的表決與國民黨黨團意見一致，列入公報紀錄。","報告院會，依黨團共識，本日會議進行到此為止。5月20日（星期二）上午9時繼續開會，進行後續討論事項。現在休息。","休息（17時11分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161519","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161519","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746f486ba634097d490b8e2d73ce5d96c5ba61988edb4e2f0be263c0903a4778e8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"17:08:41 - 17:09:16","影片長度":"00:00:35","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T17:08:41+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T17:09:16+08:00","duration":35,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.32534375,"end":9.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.341593750000001,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.38284375,"end":20.770343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.90534375,"end":32.447843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.86534375,"end":34.236593750000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.62,"end":31.696,"text":"本席非常遺憾今天通過這樣的法律那對於這個假議題我們現有的法令就沒有這個反對使行的一個判決跟執行但是還是很遺憾國民黨利用多數的這樣的一個濫權而通過這樣的法律所以本席針對這樣的一個結果表達遺憾 謝謝好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":279,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（17時8分）本席非常遺憾今天通過這樣的法令，對於這個假議題，我們現有的法令就沒有反對死刑的判決跟執行，但還是很遺憾國民黨利用多數的濫權而通過這樣的法律，本席針對這樣的結果表達遺憾。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","同時，劉委員建國聲明對剛才之表決與民進黨黨團意見一致，列入公報紀錄。","下一位請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161518","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161518","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7464cb462786a04bd27b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc3dda3dec39bdc3285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"16:52:48 - 16:54:23","影片長度":"00:01:35","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:52:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:54:23+08:00","duration":95,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.39784375,"end":5.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.67096875,"end":9.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.193468750000001,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.79096875,"end":94.46346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.465,"end":4.808,"text":"林淑媛委員請林淑媛委員發言"},{"start":23.817,"end":39.194,"text":"好 那我今天是最後一個我今天要來講說這是國民黨和民眾黨最大的荒謬今天的荒謬是大家都知道公投是創自負絕權要給人民行使的可是政府一來"},{"start":40.215,"end":60.381,"text":"並沒有要廢除死刑第二個這個國家的死刑也在所以並沒有所謂的覆決的這個權利的必要性第二個立法委員本身就有武器立法委員本身就可以立法和修法如果覺得法律不夠你就直接提案修法如果覺得憲法不完整你就提修憲"},{"start":61.241,"end":81.556,"text":"就是這樣子而已立委本身有自身的權利不行使卻要做政治操作把這個權利假裝讓人民來決定這是相當的荒謬和可笑所以這是一個假議題不存在的議題純粹是為了政治鬥爭而操作的所以今天在這裡"},{"start":82.978,"end":93.173,"text":"我們想在野黨最大的不負責任就是假裝直接民主卻把自己的權利不行使因為這是一個假議題啦謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":205,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（16時53分）我是最後一個，今天要來講，國民黨和民眾黨最大的荒謬是，大家都知道公投是要給人民行使創制、複決權，可是政府一來並沒有要廢除死刑。第二個，國家的死刑也在，所以並沒有所謂複決權利的必要性。再來，立法委員本身就有武器可以立法和修法，如果覺得法律不夠就直接提案修法，如果覺得憲法不完整就提修憲，就是這樣而已，立委有自身的權力不行使，卻政治操作利用權力假裝讓人民決定，這是相當荒謬和可笑的。這是一個假議題、不存在的議題，純粹是為了政治鬥爭而操作的，所以今天在這裡，我們講在野黨最不負責任就是假裝直接民主，卻不行使自己的權力，這就是一個假議題，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","報告院會，林岱樺委員之書面發言，列入公報紀錄。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161517","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161517","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74676d64ab5a3a6873eb8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc123a4db8f526838d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"16:49:19 - 16:52:40","影片長度":"00:03:21","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:49:19+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:52:40+08:00","duration":201,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.429718750000003,"end":23.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.976593750000003,"end":30.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.456593750000003,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.970968750000004,"end":42.235343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.79221875,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.92596875000001,"end":78.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.42784375000001,"end":84.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.40596875,"end":86.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.97096875000001,"end":116.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.78909375,"end":159.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.97221875,"end":187.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.79909375000003,"end":188.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.43596875,"end":193.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.84034375000002,"end":195.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.05096875,"end":198.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.05846875,"end":202.27784375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.435,"end":8.677,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":13.462,"end":41.144,"text":"主席各位立院宣敬同仁以及媒體朋友大家好剛剛一整天聽到民進黨輪番委員上陣五十位左右的一個發言但發言的內容感覺好像就是用CHAPGTP一樣複製貼上五十個講稿重點還是只有一個我們到底要不要尊重公投的直接民意我們要不要尊重公投的直接民權以及台灣社會能不能接受實質的廢死"},{"start":43.245,"end":69.905,"text":"這兩個問題的答案其實都是否定的第一當然要尊重直接民權因為公投過去到現在民進黨在野的時候不是最想強調公投就是直接人民權利的展現公投就是應該要至高無上的公投就是應該要大家都尊重的這也是政府如果當今天跟民意背道而馳坐在冷氣房裡面高高在上聽不到民意的時候"},{"start":70.405,"end":98.522,"text":"人民能夠站出來用公投的直接名義告訴政府你方向做錯了第二個部分我們當然也知道台灣社會有沒有廢死的空間很抱歉我們必須要說不管民進黨政府拿出什麼樣華麗堂皇的一個數據或是講言辭但重點台灣社會在目前為止就是沒有廢死的條件"},{"start":99.142,"end":115.747,"text":"甚至我記得在第十屆我們在司法法治委員會質詢的時候法務部的書面報告還公然的講說廢死是現在台灣趨勢跟民意我就直接問部長你的趨勢你的民意從何而來部長答不出來"},{"start":116.963,"end":139.154,"text":"換言之不要再偷渡不要再想要試圖操弄以為人民能夠接受所謂的廢死的一個議題事實上我們現在就沒有廢死的空間而更重要近年頻繁發生的虐童案超過11萬名的網友在公共政策參與平台上面連署希望加重虐童的刑責"},{"start":140.094,"end":156.444,"text":"有在該平台上面連署的朋友就非常的清楚超過10萬人以上的連署代表什麼意思非常困難也代表著大家對於虐童案件高度的憤怒而且沒有辦法接受我們就更應該提出來虐童應該要"},{"start":157.404,"end":158.865,"text":"所以今天我們討論公投絕對不是假議題"},{"start":181.943,"end":197.319,"text":"是要讓國家讓政府看到真實的民意反對實質廢死要求公平正義如果現在在執政的委員要來反對這樣的公投我們不同意廢死我們更想要否決"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":201,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（16時49分）主席、各位立院先進同仁，以及媒體朋友，大家好。剛剛一整天聽到民進黨的委員輪番上陣，50位左右的發言，但發言的內容感覺好像就是用ChatGPT一樣，複製、貼上50個講稿。重點還是只有一個，我們到底要不要尊重公投的直接民意？我們要不要尊重公投的直接民權？以及臺灣社會能不能接受實質的廢死？這兩個問題的答案其實都是否定的，第一，當然要尊重直接民權，因為公投從過去到現在，民進黨在野的時候不是最想強調公投就是人民權利直接的展現，公投應該是至高無上的，公投應該是大家都要尊重的？是如果政府跟民意背道而馳，坐在冷氣房裡面高高在上，聽不到民意的時候，人民能夠站出來，用公投的直接民意告訴政府方向錯了。","第二個部分，我們當然也知道臺灣社會有沒有廢死的空間，很抱歉，我們必須說，不管民進黨政府拿出什麼華麗堂皇的數據或是言詞，但重點是臺灣社會到目前為止就是沒有廢死的條件。甚至我記得在第10屆司法及法制委員會質詢的時候，法務部的書面報告還公然地講廢死是現在臺灣的趨勢跟民意。我直接問部長，你的趨勢、民意從何而來？部長答不出來。換言之，不要再偷渡、不要想要試圖操弄，以為人民能夠接受廢死的議題，事實上我們現在就是沒有廢死的空間。而更重要的，近年頻繁發生的虐童案，超過11萬名的網友在公共政策參與平臺上面連署，希望加重虐童的刑責，有在該平臺上面連署的朋友就非常清楚，超過10萬人以上的連署代表非常困難，也代表大家對虐童案件高度憤怒，而且沒有辦法接受。我們更應該提出虐童致死應該處以死刑，每當有重大的刑案，他們都希望犯人能夠受到應有的制裁，也希望藉由死刑來嚇阻重大犯罪的行為、不期待犯罪，預防犯罪才是人民安居樂業的心理期待。所以今天我們討論公投絕對不是假議題，是要讓國家、讓政府看到真實的民意，反對實質廢死、要求公平正義，如果現在執政的委員要反對不同意廢死的公投，甚至更想要否決公投的話，我們絕對不同意，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪委員。","下一位請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161516","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161516","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7460a33bbba9bb03ea6b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbcda6e6bdae5930a855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"16:46:01 - 16:49:11","影片長度":"00:03:10","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:46:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:49:11+08:00","duration":190,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.16909375,"end":12.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.075343750000002,"end":13.598468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.78409375,"end":29.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.71409375,"end":40.024718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.80096875,"end":44.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.80034375,"end":54.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.009718750000005,"end":65.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.80971875,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.29409375,"end":73.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.84221875,"end":83.00534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.35971875,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.15659375,"end":94.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.54784375000001,"end":96.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.75846875,"end":102.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.10784375,"end":103.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.64346875000001,"end":106.36034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.74846875,"end":123.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.02846875,"end":124.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.06221875000001,"end":173.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.79284375,"end":190.24596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.579,"end":28.844,"text":"谢谢主席也想要跟在这个社会上面因为实质废死而受到改判或者是原来以为自己的公道会被证明而但在实质废死的大法官视线之后感到失望的所有朋友们那希望你们可以一起来关心这个议题"},{"start":29.738,"end":54.19,"text":"民进党说有死刑啊前一阵子不是才枪决了几位要犯吗以此声称这个公投没有意义是在玩弄文字游戏现在枪决的死刑犯是以前就已经定验的但在大法官视线变成实质废死一自觉才能够死刑之后未来死刑还会再有吗社会上都非常的存疑"},{"start":55.069,"end":73.14,"text":"要違反社會台灣的八成民意卻又不敢承擔社會上的責難與反彈這一群大法官無異於就是知法玩法設下了八大關卡包含只是用犯罪情節更嚴重程序要符合最嚴密的"},{"start":73.94,"end":95.751,"text":"程序要求然后呢包含每一省都要一致决如果有精神障碍心智缺陷等等都不能处以死刑所以未来再被判死刑可以说是难上加难很多的被害者不断的出来发声说着他的委屈但我们的政府我们的大法官没有听到我今天讲给大家听"},{"start":96.772,"end":123.501,"text":"第一个案子2022年8月22号台南沙检徒二检我替他说是他亲笔写下的信我替他念他说事发至今还是常想起明晨和慰节会非常难过三月的天气是凉爽的我比较喜欢因为太阳很大很热的时候我都会忍不住的想那一天他们满身是伤的躺在地上心里有多么的痛苦跟绝望"},{"start":124.421,"end":143.89,"text":"現在的我坐在這裡的心情有他們的萬分之一嗎鳴成的脖子動脈靜脈被割斷血流個不停還是盡力的到警車裡面去按報警若婕身中38刀頭顱胸膛被刺手掌幾乎被砍斷等到來支援的同事他說的是先救學長"},{"start":145.337,"end":169.527,"text":"這樣的法律犯決會明定名城和瑞捷身為警察的信念懇請庭上不要讓他們榮譽感和責任心變成笑話請面對這樣的犯罪行為除以死刑這也是被害者家屬的唯一心願司法機關監護維護社區的功能請面對重大惡行唯有死刑的正確執行才能彰顯功利與功利2025年3月9號圖怡婷寫下來的"},{"start":173.829,"end":189.652,"text":"我還有兩個案子未來有機會會繼續跟大家分享這斑斑血淚都是在告訴我們大法官不敢承擔八成的民意反彈卻又要實質廢死多可惡所以我們需要用公投來告訴大家事實的真相謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":196,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（16時46分）謝謝主席。在這個社會上面，因為實質廢死而受到改判，或者是原來以為自己的公道會被證明，但在實質廢死的大法官釋憲之後，感到失望的所有朋友們，希望你們可以一起來關心這個議題。民進黨說有死刑啊！前一陣子不是才槍決了幾位要犯嗎？以此聲稱，這個公投沒有意義，是在玩弄文字遊戲。現在槍決的死刑犯是以前就已經定讞的，但在大法官釋憲變成實質廢死一致決才能夠死刑之後，未來死刑還會再有嗎？社會上都非常的存疑，要違反臺灣社會八成的民意，卻又不敢承擔社會上的責難與反彈。這一群大法官無異於知法玩法，設下了八大關卡，包含只適用犯罪情節更嚴重，且程序要符合最嚴格的要求，包含每一審都要一致決，如果有精神障礙、心智缺陷等等，都不能處以死刑，所以未來被判死刑可以說是難上加難。很多被害者不斷地出來發聲說著他的委屈，但我們的政府、我們的大法官沒有聽到，我今天講給大家聽。","第一個案子，2022年8月22號臺南殺警案凃二姊，這是她親筆寫下的信，我替她念，她說：事發至今還是常想起明誠和瑞傑會非常難過，3月天氣是涼爽的，我比較喜歡，因為太陽很大、很熱的時候，我都會忍不住的想，那一天他們滿身是傷的躺在地上，心裡有多麼的痛苦跟絕望，現在的我坐在這裡的心情，有他們的萬分之一嗎？明誠的脖子頸動脈、頸靜脈被割斷血流的不停，還是盡力的到警車裡面去按報警；瑞傑身中38刀，頭顱、胸膛被刺，手掌幾乎被砍斷，等到來支援的同事，他說的是先救學長。這樣的法律判決會明定明誠和瑞傑身為警察的信念，懇請庭上不要讓他們的榮譽感和責任心變成笑話，請面對這樣的犯罪行為，處以死刑，這也是被害者家屬的唯一心願，警察司法機關監護維護社區的功能，請面對重大惡行，唯有死刑正確執行，才能彰顯公理與公義。2025年3月9號，凃怡婷寫下來的。","我還有兩個案子，未來有機會會繼續跟大家分享，這斑斑血淚都是在告訴我們，大法官不敢承擔八成的民意反彈，卻又要實質廢死，多可惡！所以我們需要用公投來告訴大家事實的真相，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員。","下一位請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161515","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161515","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74671e51f6096a34e65b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc5676bdfe407d455b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"16:42:36 - 16:45:54","影片長度":"00:03:18","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:42:36+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:45:54+08:00","duration":198,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.6215937500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.57721875,"end":16.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.26034375,"end":18.340343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.21784375,"end":19.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.344093750000003,"end":22.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.81221875,"end":23.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.28034375,"end":26.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.929718750000003,"end":30.102218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.81096875,"end":33.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.89471875,"end":35.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.51471875,"end":38.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.68721875,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.893468750000004,"end":44.260343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.74534375,"end":46.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.095343750000005,"end":47.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.80409375,"end":48.360968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.93471875,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.930343750000006,"end":52.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.15346875,"end":54.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.06034375,"end":57.017843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.57471875,"end":59.312843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.797843750000006,"end":62.53596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.227843750000005,"end":65.72534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.70409375,"end":68.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.15096875,"end":71.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.55971875,"end":73.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.51721875,"end":75.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.85034375000001,"end":78.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.84971875000001,"end":81.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.49909375,"end":83.44409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.13596875,"end":85.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.14409375000001,"end":87.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.67971875,"end":89.70471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.39659375000001,"end":91.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.53971875,"end":94.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.93596875,"end":95.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.04971875000001,"end":99.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.69471875,"end":104.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.58409375000001,"end":106.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.08596875,"end":109.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.03909375,"end":111.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.06409375000001,"end":114.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.98346875,"end":115.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.31659375000001,"end":117.95346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.81409375000001,"end":122.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.48846875000001,"end":131.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.63909375,"end":133.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.60909375,"end":136.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.21221875,"end":139.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.82346875000002,"end":142.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.46846875,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.39596875,"end":150.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.96096875,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.61471875,"end":157.49159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.36909375000002,"end":160.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.78221875,"end":171.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.98284375,"end":174.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.43409375000002,"end":175.69971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.13846875000002,"end":178.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.27721875,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.04034375,"end":183.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.79971875,"end":185.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.31846875000002,"end":198.64971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.956,"end":17.938,"text":"謝謝主席 江副院長我們都看到這個"},{"start":21.417,"end":43.986,"text":"廢死大家都了解廢死是民進黨的黨綱啊行動綱領26條寫得很清楚啊民進黨要廢死啊各位不要忘了所以三十幾位判死刑的在蔡英文時代幾乎沒有執行賴清德時代"},{"start":46.402,"end":68.488,"text":"這個槍斃的少數一兩位有個交代因為知道人民火大啦超過八成的人都反對廢死啊因為民進黨只重視加害者的人權完全漠視被害人的人權民進黨的行動綱領26條寫得這麼的清楚如果民進黨"},{"start":74.838,"end":77.244,"text":"說不是這樣子那拜託你們修黨綱把26條廢掉"},{"start":79.895,"end":108.576,"text":"大家都了解你們找一堆理由就是要廢死所謂的進步價值進步時代就是你們扛著進步價值來跟民意對幹這是我們清楚看得到的 第一點第二點這大法官的解釋變成一個實質廢死要所有的個庭都要廢死都要死刑才能夠判死刑這個跟民意完全對撞"},{"start":110.086,"end":133.283,"text":"民意不支持的所有的政府所有的單位都是為服務人民而存在的當人民的意志是反對Face的時候大法官居然玩文字遊戲大法官舔不支持大法官只是要kissDPP的S而已"},{"start":135.056,"end":157.177,"text":"丟臉啦大法官 大法官現在已經變成社會的亂源大法官只要解釋一出 社會必亂大法官變成一群妖魔鬼怪 因為他們就是要kissDPP執政黨的S 這樣而已啦因為大法官想要繼續當大法官 想要升官 想要當官"},{"start":158.427,"end":181.477,"text":"可恥讓人家瞧不起現在來講大法官本來是很重要維持社會公平正義的最後一道防線結果現在大法官製作件成為執政者的出口啊大法官就是這個樣子看民進黨風向怎麼吹他就跟著怎麼走你不會解決嗎來我替你解決"},{"start":183.086,"end":197.901,"text":"一方面又變成一個執政的民進黨的為事者就是大法官他今天做出這樣子的一個解釋人民當然有權利出來公投說I say NO大家一起來支持這次的公投案謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":192,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（16時42分）謝謝主席。我們都看到廢死，大家都了解廢死是民進黨的黨綱啊！行動綱領第26條寫得很清楚，民進黨要廢死，各位不要忘了，所以三十幾位被判死刑的，在蔡英文時代幾乎沒有執行，賴清德時代槍斃了少數一、兩位，有個交代，因為知道人民火大了，超過八成的人都反對廢死，因為民進黨只重視加害者的人權，完全漠視被害人的人權。民進黨的行動綱領第26條寫得這麼清楚，如果民進黨說不是這樣子，那拜託你們修黨綱，把第26條廢掉，大家都了解你們找一堆理由就是要廢死，所謂的進步價值、進步時代，就是你們扛著進步價值來跟民意對幹，這是我們清楚看得到的，第一點。","第二點，大法官的解釋變成實質廢死，要所有各庭都要是死刑才能夠判死刑，這個跟民意完全對撞，民意不支持的！政府所有的單位都是為服務人民而存在，當人民的意志是反對廢死的時候，大法官居然玩文字遊戲，大法官恬不知恥，大法官只是要kiss DPP的ass而已！丟臉啦！大法官。大法官現在已經變成社會的亂源，大法官只要解釋一出，社會必亂，大法官變成一群妖魔鬼怪，因為他們就是要kiss DPP執政黨的ass這樣而已，因為大法官想要繼續當大法官，想要升官，想要當官，可恥！讓人家瞧不起。現在來講，大法官本來是很重要、維持社會公平正義的最後一道防線，結果現在大法官自作賤成為執政者的芻狗，大法官就是這個樣子，看民進黨風向怎麼吹，他就跟著怎麼走。你不會解決嗎？來，我替你解決，一方面又變成執政的民進黨的圍事者就是大法官，他今天做出這樣子的一個解釋，人民當然有權力出來公投說，I say No，大家一起來支持這次的公投案，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","下一位請徐巧芯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161514","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161514","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746052e0f04965dc7b7b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc739c7deb8e227a905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"16:39:28 - 16:42:29","影片長度":"00:03:01","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:39:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:42:29+08:00","duration":181,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.81909375,"end":6.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.152218750000001,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.805343750000002,"end":18.660968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.184093750000002,"end":26.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.06471875,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.97534375,"end":34.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.02971875,"end":36.767843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.987218750000004,"end":49.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.829093750000006,"end":54.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.94221875,"end":58.266593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.705343750000004,"end":62.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.75534375,"end":63.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.58221875,"end":64.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.08409375000001,"end":66.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.29471875,"end":68.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.13409375,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.76659375,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.45846875000001,"end":78.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.73596875,"end":83.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.13596875,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.41409375,"end":87.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.73034375,"end":90.58221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.95346875,"end":96.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.38284375,"end":98.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.56409375000001,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.30221875000001,"end":103.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.41971875,"end":113.31284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.70096875,"end":124.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.26471875000001,"end":125.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.32346875,"end":135.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.82409375,"end":139.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.62096875,"end":143.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.73846875,"end":146.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.99534375000002,"end":148.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.40846875,"end":159.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.10721875000002,"end":165.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.60846875000001,"end":170.56971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.82284375,"end":181.13346875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.094,"end":33.588,"text":"謝謝主席今天我們聚集在此支持反廢死公投我們必須捍衛社會的公平與正義我們要先跟大家說說大搞實質廢死的憲判第八號是怎麼來的是民進黨在完全執政的時代輕易放行廢死大法官通過的一個結果總統提名的每位大法官都需要經過立法院的審查之後才通過然而在民進黨執政的時期"},{"start":35.749,"end":64.154,"text":"黨議是壓倒性的他們對於八成民意反對死刑的訴求置若罔聞在審查的過程中自甘淪為橡皮圖章以至於這批大法官欠缺真正的民意基礎在五大憲政機關中立法院是唯一受到人民直接選舉的機構立法委員每天傾聽民意並對選民負責立法委員的聲音本來就要貼近人民的心聲但司法"},{"start":65.134,"end":90.344,"text":"我們相信司法不應該是被害人追求正義的工具更是對社會秩序的信任因此在上一輪的大法官的投票是否廢死是在野力量把關的重要指標即便我們要被批評是毀線亂正甚至變成所謂大罷免的理由我們都要堅持原則因為我們清楚如果我們的司法體系失去了公信力"},{"start":91.244,"end":112.977,"text":"當政府無法為被害人伸張正義時,社會的公平正義也就無從談起。過去八年,民進黨大喊司法改革,卻讓人民對於司法的信任蕩然無存。他們透過大法官釋憲的方式,變相廢除死刑,完全違背人民對於公平正義的期待。"},{"start":113.797,"end":138.974,"text":"我們相信司法不應該成為政黨或是任何個人追求理想的工具它應該代表的是全體人民全體社會的公平正義民進黨過去的做法不僅未能推動司法的改革反而讓體系大幅倒退如果我們繼續無視人民對於司法不公的訴求跟怒火那恐怕司法的公信力將會進一步的消失"},{"start":139.69,"end":158.717,"text":"我更要強調維繫司法公信力的努力不只是立法委員的工作跟責任單靠我們是不夠的我們必須站出來讓全民共同支持反對實質廢死的公投讓人民的聲音至少有一個清楚表達的機會"},{"start":160.337,"end":180.943,"text":"讓我們滿漢無能的政府看到人民對於司法不公的焦慮讓我們的政府正視司法無法維持正義的警鐘如此才能讓真正的公平正義回到我們的社會讓我們一起努力為未來發聲為公平正義而戰謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":186,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（16時39分）謝謝主席。今天我們聚集在此支持反廢死公投，我們必須捍衛社會的公平與正義，我們要先跟大家說說大搞實質廢死的憲判字第8號是怎麼來的，是民進黨在完全執政的時代，輕易放行廢死大法官通過的一個結果。總統提名的每位大法官都需要經過立法院的審查之後才通過，然而在民進黨執政時期，黨意是壓倒性的，他們對於八成民意反對死刑的訴求置若罔聞，在審查的過程中自甘淪為橡皮圖章，以至於這批大法官欠缺真正的民意基礎。","在五大憲政機關中，立法院是唯一受到人民直接選舉的機構，立法委員每天傾聽民意，並對選民負責，立法委員的聲音本來就要貼近人民的心聲。我們相信司法不應該是被害人追求正義的工具，更是對社會秩序的信任，因此在上一輪大法官投票，是否廢死是在野力量把關的重要指標，即便我們被批評是毀憲亂政，甚至變成所謂大罷免的理由，我們都要堅持原則！因為我們清楚，如果我們的司法體系失去了公信力，當政府無法為被害人伸張正義時，社會的公平正義也就無從談起。","過去八年，民進黨大喊司法改革，卻讓人民對於司法的信任蕩然無存。他們透過大法官釋憲的方式，變相廢除死刑，完全違背人民對於公平正義的期待。我們相信司法不應該成為政黨，或是任何個人追求理想的工具，它應該代表全體人民、全體社會的公平正義。民進黨過去的作法不僅未能推動司法改革，反而讓體系大幅倒退。如果我們繼續無視人民對於司法不公的訴求跟怒火，恐怕司法的公信力將會進一步消失。","我更要強調，維繫司法公信力的努力，不只是立法委員的工作跟責任，單靠我們是不夠的，我們必須站出來，讓全民共同支持反對實質廢死的公投，讓人民的聲音至少有一個清楚表達的機會，讓我們顢頇無能的政府看到人民對於司法不公的焦慮，讓我們的政府正視司法無法維持正義的警鐘，如此才能讓真正的公平正義回到我們的社會。讓我們一起努力為未來發聲，為公平正義而戰，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝牛委員。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161513","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161513","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746e6e451d3d3170e58b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbcbe04807aac789fd55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"16:36:06 - 16:39:21","影片長度":"00:03:15","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:36:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:39:21+08:00","duration":195,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.240343750000001,"end":12.113468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.704093750000002,"end":15.809093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.61909375,"end":21.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.05284375,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.79471875,"end":30.524093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.13159375,"end":34.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.79346875,"end":35.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.58221875,"end":37.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.69596875,"end":41.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.21846875,"end":46.268468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.92659375,"end":49.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.89659375,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.432218750000004,"end":54.284093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.82409375,"end":60.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.814718750000004,"end":62.164718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.09284375000001,"end":69.04971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.42096875,"end":76.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.57596875,"end":82.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.88721875,"end":84.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.09784375000001,"end":89.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.75096875,"end":93.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.77159375000001,"end":96.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.43346875,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.76221875,"end":101.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.10784375,"end":107.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.04784375000001,"end":110.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.54096875,"end":113.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.15659375000001,"end":115.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.99596875,"end":119.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.24846875,"end":121.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.66596875,"end":122.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.57284375,"end":126.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.62721875000001,"end":127.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.75784375,"end":130.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.86284375,"end":131.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.65159375000002,"end":135.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":137.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.06846875000002,"end":140.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.20721875,"end":142.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.72159375,"end":145.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.11784375000002,"end":148.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.67846875,"end":152.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.81721875000002,"end":154.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.70721875,"end":156.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.78284375,"end":157.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.23846875,"end":158.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.87534375,"end":161.76096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.28409375,"end":163.17846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.97159375,"end":172.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.86034375,"end":177.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.58534375000002,"end":181.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.06159375000001,"end":188.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.28409375,"end":191.17409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.30909375000002,"end":193.41846875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.25,"end":35.349,"text":"杜成哲诈骗集团,拘禁61位受骗民众,喂食毒品,用烧红的铁棍烫肚子,惦记有三个人惨遭虐死弃尸,如此惨绝人寰,泯灭人性的恶行,高等法院二审法院的判决没有实行。"},{"start":36.636,"end":62.085,"text":"一歲男童凱凱招保姆姐妹寧願致死凱凱被保姆長時間罰站如有不從就打罵走路叫慢就推他撞牆推頭撞地只能吃剩飯冬天被迫裸體身上一共42處新舊傷連生殖器都受傷瘦成皮包骨"},{"start":63.151,"end":89.455,"text":"台大醫師都感嘆從來沒有見過這麼嚴重的人為暴力但是因為檢方是以寧月兒童致死罪起訴他的罪高刑是無期徒刑最後法官雖然認為保母姐妹以虐取樂為害甚懼一審仍然是保母姐妹是用無期徒刑跟18年徒刑"},{"start":90.799,"end":118.889,"text":"我們現在的刑事司法政策已經完全向加害人侵犒不顧被害者的暗夜悲歌一輩子坐於陰柴善良正直的私奪獎女老師被殘忍殺害兇手五度被判處死刑你知道是誰救了他嗎就是大法官大法官做出實質廢死的憲法判決後"},{"start":120.307,"end":148.635,"text":"最高法院直接說他要依照大法官的憲判意旨於是改判兇手免死定業受害女教師的丈夫說真正的無期徒刑是殺人犯對家屬造成的無期的傷痛司法沒有還給家屬公道而是帶給他們無期的傷痛"},{"start":149.744,"end":177.271,"text":"所以今天為什麼我們提出了這個反實質廢死反對大法官以自己的想法要求死刑判決一字決的這個公投我們就是要告訴今天高高在上的大法官以及今天把廢死放進黨綱裡面的民進黨你們請聽聽人民八成的廢死的名義"},{"start":178.669,"end":192.962,"text":"不要把公投當作洪水猛獸謙卑的聽聽人民對於今天民進黨實質Face的憤怒希望我們的公投凝聚民意讓我們的正義可以貫徹"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":181,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（16時36分）杜承哲詐騙集團拘禁61位受騙民眾餵食毒品、用燒紅的鐵棍燙肚子、電擊，有3個人慘遭虐死棄屍，如此慘絕人寰、泯滅人性的惡行，高等法院（二審法院）的判決沒有死刑。一歲男童剴剴遭保母姊妹凌虐至死，剴剴被保母長時間罰站，如有不從就打罵，走路較慢就推他撞牆，推頭撞地，只能吃剩飯，冬天被迫裸體，身上一共42處新舊傷，連生殖器都受傷，瘦成皮包骨，臺大醫師都感嘆，從未見過這麼嚴重的人為暴力。但是因為檢方是以凌虐兒童致死罪起訴，其最高刑是無期徒刑，最後法官雖然認為保母姊妹以虐取樂，危害甚鉅，一審仍然判決保母姊妹無期徒刑跟18年徒刑。","我們現在的刑事司法政策已經完全向加害人傾靠，不顧被害人的暗夜悲歌。一輩子作育英才，善良正直的師鐸獎女老師被殘忍殺害，兇手五度被判處死刑，你知道是誰救了他嗎？就是大法官。大法官做出實質廢死的憲法判決後，最高法院直接說，他要依照大法官的憲判意旨，於是改判兇手免死定讞。受害女教師的丈夫說，真正的無期徒刑是殺人犯對家屬造成的無期傷痛，司法沒有還給家屬公道，而是帶給他們無期的傷痛。","今天為什麼我們提出反實質廢死，反對大法官以自己的想法，要求死刑判決必須一致決的公投？我們就是要告訴今天高高在上的大法官，以及今天把廢死放進黨綱裡面的民進黨，你們請聽聽八成人民反對廢死的民意，不要把公投當作洪水猛獸，謙卑的聽聽人民對於今天民進黨實質廢死的憤怒。希望我們的公投凝聚民意，讓我們的正義可以貫徹。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。","接下來請牛煦庭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161512","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161512","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746a8ec5f54b497f1bcb8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc7a419371ec2b560b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"16:32:50 - 16:35:58","影片長度":"00:03:08","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:32:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:35:58+08:00","duration":188,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.79846875,"end":4.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.7897187500000005,"end":10.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.30784375,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.121593750000002,"end":18.239093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.40784375,"end":22.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.32284375,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.64721875,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.02221875,"end":48.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.32721875,"end":51.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.97221875,"end":53.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.28846875,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.79409375,"end":94.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.29471875,"end":103.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.39034375,"end":104.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.40284375,"end":104.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.06096875,"end":117.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.49346875,"end":137.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.27096875,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.69596875000002,"end":147.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.94034375,"end":170.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.55284375000002,"end":172.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.86471875,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.20159375,"end":178.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.24346875,"end":181.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.58909375000002,"end":186.71909375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.776,"end":28.248,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想我們自己提出來的提案我們當然會予以捍衛當然本來社會議題就有很多種不同的面向就如同我們在看法律學說的時候本來就假說與說秉說每一個學說就是為自己所希望的方向去捍衛至於採取不同學說不同想法或否定見解的人我們就予以尊重"},{"start":29.088,"end":56.453,"text":"那整個討論到現在其實我聽了非常多立委同仁大家的說法那我發現其實有一個東西大家可能在認定上面還是有一些可能有一些誤會例如其實法律上面有分為法定刑、宣告刑還有確定之後的執行那大家今天有提到說今年2月確實有一個被告被槍決但是這個槍決他是屬於判決確定之後的執行這個跟"},{"start":58.133,"end":80.282,"text":"我國憲法有沒有法律有沒有實質廢死其實這個是兩回事跟我國法律是不是還有死刑的存在存廢也都是兩回事其實這東西其實不太一樣所以我們不能用有一個人被槍決然後我們去推論說其實我國沒有廢死那當然從法定刑的角度來看我國確實是沒有廢除死刑那只是我們一直認為從憲判8號他所"},{"start":83.543,"end":104.591,"text":"大法官所得出來的結論他就是認為死刑需要經過一致決然後在參酌其實法律上面有一個叫做不利變更禁止原則所以可能會導致將來要判死刑在實際上面變成一個幾乎是不可能的任務這也是這一次為什麼我們必須要提出來我們希望我們就以"},{"start":105.351,"end":123.244,"text":"賴清德總統他的邏輯他希望很多事情必須訴諸更大的民意那我們今天其實就是跟著賴清德的腳步在走我們希望訴求更大的民意所以我們希望把這個憲判八號所得出來這個結論我們希望來訴諸全民的想法來做"},{"start":124.385,"end":144.762,"text":"當然也有很多人談到毀憲亂政其實我一直覺得什麼叫毀憲亂政很多時候你拿憲法裡面的罷免權來濫用把人民的罷免權當作政治的武器這反而才是毀憲亂政的一個行為當然我們也尊重大家最後的做法但是我們從頭到尾我們就是不認同"},{"start":145.763,"end":169.635,"text":"那另外就是有關權力之間的彼此分立以及立法權監督行政權你不讓立法權監督行政權或不准他在預算上面去實質的審核這個才是違憲亂政這一直以來我們都是這麼的認為最後我還是希望我們要向政府宣示的是一個核心的道理就是如果你沒有能力保障人民不被無端的殺死"},{"start":170.615,"end":185.927,"text":"那你就必須確保殺人犯在殺人之後有可能被法院判死而不是剝奪了法庭的這個權利那你也要給人民一個免於恐懼的自由這是憲法的基本人權 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":174,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（16時32分）謝謝主席。對於我們自己提出來的提案，我們當然會予以捍衛，當然，本來社會議題就有很多種不同的面向，就如同我們在看法律學說的時候，本來就有甲說、乙說、丙說，每一個學說就是為自己希望的方向去捍衛，至於採取不同學說、不同想法或持否定見解的人，我們就予以尊重。","整個討論到現在，我聽了非常多立委同仁的說法，我發現其實有一個東西大家可能在認定上還是有一些誤會，法律上有分為法定刑、宣告刑，還有確定之後的執行。大家今天有提到今年2月確實有一個被告被槍決，但是這個槍決是屬於判決確定之後的執行，這個跟我國法律有沒有實質廢死其實是兩回事，跟我國法律是不是還有死刑的存在、存廢也都是兩回事，其實這個東西是不太一樣的，所以我們不能用有一個人被槍決，然後去推論其實我國沒有廢死。","當然，從法定刑的角度來看，我國確實是沒有廢除死刑，只是我們一直認為，從大法官做成的憲判字第8號所得出來的結論，就是認為死刑須要經過一致決，然後再參酌法律上有一個叫做不利益變更禁止原則，所以可能會導致將來要判死刑在實際上變成一個幾乎是不可能的任務，這也是這一次為什麼我們必須要提出來。我們就以賴清德總統的邏輯，他希望很多事情必須訴諸更大的民意，我們今天其實就是跟著賴清德的腳步在走，我們希望訴求更大的民意，所以對於憲判字第8號所得出來的這個結論，我們希望訴諸全民的想法來做。","當然，也有很多人談到毀憲亂政，其實我一直覺得什麼叫毀憲亂政？很多時候你拿憲法裡面的罷免權來濫用，把人民的罷免權當作政治的武器，這反而才是毀憲亂政的一個行為，當然，我們也尊重大家最後的作法，但是我們從頭到尾就是不認同。另外就是有關權力之間的彼此分立以及立法權監督行政權，你不讓立法權監督行政權，或不准他在預算上做實質的審核，這個才是毀憲亂政，一直以來我們都是這麼認為。","最後我還是希望，我們要向政府宣示的一個核心道理就是：如果你沒有能力保障人民不被無端的殺死，那你就必須確保殺人犯在殺人之後，有可能被法院判死，而不是剝奪了法庭的這個權力。你也要給人民免於恐懼的自由，這是憲法的基本人權，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","接下來請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161511","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161511","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746e4eb44689b40597cb8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbca12d4359cc2b37275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"16:29:18 - 16:32:43","影片長度":"00:03:25","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:29:18+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:32:43+08:00","duration":205,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.03909375,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.48159375,"end":6.342218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.01721875,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.050968750000001,"end":7.3209687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.337843750000001,"end":7.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.67534375,"end":7.7428437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.793468750000001,"end":7.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.87784375,"end":7.995968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.637218750000002,"end":9.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.007843750000003,"end":14.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.117218750000003,"end":17.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.85096875,"end":19.133468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.41596875,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.81221875,"end":25.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.980343750000003,"end":29.190968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.637843750000002,"end":36.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.26971875,"end":38.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.501593750000005,"end":41.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.336593750000006,"end":43.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.720343750000005,"end":46.251593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.96034375,"end":47.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.377843750000004,"end":49.305968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.18346875,"end":51.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.42784375,"end":52.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.284093750000004,"end":55.735343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.00534375,"end":57.962843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.55346875,"end":60.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.37159375,"end":61.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.548468750000005,"end":64.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.88159375000001,"end":66.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.68284375,"end":69.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.46721875,"end":71.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.32346875,"end":73.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.38221875,"end":75.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.42409375000001,"end":77.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.22971875,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.71471875,"end":80.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.80721875,"end":82.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.95034375,"end":84.65909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.26659375,"end":85.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.10596875,"end":87.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.50659375000001,"end":89.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.83534375,"end":92.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.56909375000001,"end":95.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.18471875,"end":97.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.45034375,"end":100.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.61409375000001,"end":103.42409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.89659375000001,"end":104.94284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.39846875,"end":106.42784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.05221875000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.22909375,"end":110.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.74784375,"end":113.78534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.79784375000001,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":121.75034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.91909375,"end":122.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.28596875000001,"end":125.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.63159375000001,"end":126.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.89284375000001,"end":129.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.44534375,"end":133.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.22096875,"end":135.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.19534375,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.84471875,"end":140.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.86971875,"end":144.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.42596875,"end":147.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.04159375,"end":149.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.77971875,"end":151.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.46721875,"end":152.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.23471875,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.61409375000002,"end":157.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.79534375,"end":164.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.08534375000002,"end":166.85721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.56596875000002,"end":168.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.93284375000002,"end":170.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":175.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.18909375,"end":177.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.43784375,"end":178.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.92284375,"end":179.91846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.37409375000001,"end":181.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.42034375,"end":182.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.09096875,"end":184.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.23409375,"end":197.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.23534375000003,"end":204.70784375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.785,"end":28.531,"text":"當去年大法官憲法法庭做了實質會使台灣的民意沸騰那時候的民調高達九成的民眾都是持反對意見的"},{"start":31.667,"end":60.179,"text":"我不曉得民進黨為什麼反對這樣一個反對實質廢死的一個公投在大法官被提名人審查期間我跟國民黨的吳宗憲吳委員我們辦了公聽會包括邀請大法官的被提名人還有一些受害者的家屬希望可以面對面的溝通我到現在還是很心疼"},{"start":61.454,"end":87.17,"text":"心痛包括那時候來參加我們公聽會的施斗獎米教師他的先生還有他的小孩還有台南兩位警察英勇信職的悲慘的事情家屬們一邊講一邊哭因為那邊"},{"start":90.865,"end":107.598,"text":"他們非常生氣為什麼大法官離人民這麼遠為什麼離受害者家屬的心情這麼這麼的遙遠無視於他們長久來受到的悲痛跟折磨"},{"start":109.564,"end":125.944,"text":"當法律跟民進黨站在加害者的這一邊漠視了被害者的受到折磨跟心情就跟這次一樣我們希望透過公投讓全民直接民意的反應好好來討論"},{"start":127.95,"end":152.535,"text":"你是我同意各級法院合議庭的法官判處死刑不應該是一字決因為去年引起民意沸騰的就是大法官們做了需要有三級的法官全部都是要同意那根本就是一個實質的廢死這跟民進黨從蔡英文主政開始積極在推動廢死"},{"start":156.673,"end":166.47,"text":"事實上有某些先進國家沒有錯廢死是一條漫長的路可是第一個你要得到整個社會的共識而且要求得"},{"start":167.654,"end":196.938,"text":"受害者他們的一些聲音你要把所有的事情配套做好的才去推動結果民進黨不是用劇劍華馬上的極力的這個推動弄出了一個去年的實質廢食這次是一個補破網的機會一方面展現了人民的憤怒一方面我們心疼我們希望可以幫受害者家屬請大家支持這次的公投案你是我同意各級法院何玉婷"},{"start":204.3,"end":204.321,"text":"啊"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":169,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（16時29分）去年大法官憲法法庭做了實質廢死的判決，臺灣的民意沸騰，那時候的民調，高達九成的民眾都是持反對意見的，我不曉得民進黨為什麼要反對這樣一個反對實質廢死的公投。在大法官被提名人審查期間，我跟國民黨的吳宗憲委員辦了公聽會，邀請包括大法官被提名人，還有一些受害者的家屬，希望可以面對面溝通。我到現在還是很心疼、心痛，包括那時候來參加我們公聽會的師鐸獎女教師的先生及小孩，還有臺南兩位警察英勇殉職的悲慘事情，家屬們一邊講一邊哭，一方面他們非常生氣為什麼大法官離人民這麼遠，為什麼離受害者家屬的心情這麼這麼的遙遠，無視他們長久以來受到的悲痛跟折磨。","當法律跟民進黨站在加害者的這一邊，漠視了被害者受到的折磨跟心情，就跟這一次一樣，我們希望透過公投，讓全民直接民意的反映，好好討論「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」因為去年引起民意沸騰的就是大法官們做了須要三級法官全部都要同意，那根本就是一個實質的廢死，民進黨從蔡英文主政開始積極在推動廢死。事實上，有某些先進國家沒有錯，廢死是一條漫長的路，可是第一個，你要得到整個社會的共識，而且要求得受害者他們的一些聲音，你要把所有事情的配套做好了才去推動，結果民進黨不是，用鋸箭法，馬上的、極力的推動，弄出了去年的實質廢死。","這次是一個補破網的機會，一方面展現了人民的憤怒，一方面我們也心疼，我們希望可以幫受害者家屬。請大家支持這一次的公投案「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」請共同來表達你的意見，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張委員。","下一位請吳宗憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161510","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161510","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746e92ff0d215bcbd48b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc61f4198ff1cb05dc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"16:26:36 - 16:29:10","影片長度":"00:02:34","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:26:36+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:29:10+08:00","duration":154,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.869093750000001,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.72534375,"end":14.712218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.167843750000003,"end":21.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.765968750000003,"end":24.044093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.97221875,"end":28.245968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.75221875,"end":32.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.68409375,"end":34.337843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.759718750000005,"end":37.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.016593750000006,"end":38.033468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.08409375,"end":39.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.64909375,"end":42.049718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.64034375,"end":45.407843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.09971875,"end":50.453468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.70659375,"end":53.305343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.862218750000004,"end":54.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.66784375,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.916593750000004,"end":58.283468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.13971875,"end":63.750968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.44284375000001,"end":66.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.73346875,"end":71.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.25596875000001,"end":83.84909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.69284375000001,"end":91.59471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.72971875,"end":95.62784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.89784375,"end":106.39409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.47409375000001,"end":111.82784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.48596875000001,"end":121.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.42534375000001,"end":126.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.84221875000001,"end":129.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.64784375000002,"end":131.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.63471875000002,"end":137.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.52846875,"end":140.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.07221875000002,"end":146.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.14721875,"end":148.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.61534375000002,"end":149.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.76284375,"end":150.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.89346875,"end":151.61909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.99034375000002,"end":153.66096875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.909,"end":23.207,"text":"主席各位同事台灣民眾黨一向主張人民是頭家我也主張重大的政策尤其對於爭議強烈政府一意孤行但多項的民意調查卻顯示"},{"start":25.37,"end":39.592,"text":"這項政策跟多數的民意是不符合的這個時候就應該交付全民來做決定去年大法官做出死刑區各省級一致判決引起很多人的憤怒"},{"start":40.834,"end":66.211,"text":"這就是實質的廢死民進黨如果要廢死就大大方方的修法不需要透過幾位御用的大法官用個人的意志跟價值在法律程序上搞幾個小動作直接輾壓直接凌駕八成以上的民意實心需要一致決這是台灣幾乎獨創的制度廢死與否這麼重大的社會議題"},{"start":68.079,"end":83.654,"text":"這麼多人關心的議題當然應該交給全國人民來做決定這樣才符合我數十年來長期支持的那個政黨的人民做主的主張那個政黨的名字一開頭就叫民主"},{"start":84.775,"end":106.158,"text":"民主進步黨在野的時候民主進步黨選票還贏不了人家的時候他們就阻擋公投如果我說民進黨是公投起家也不為過當年民進黨為了爭取公投甚至集體絕食抗議害我們支持者不忍心急著忙著去送水去支持"},{"start":107.523,"end":126.016,"text":"呼籲民進黨你們可以支持廢死你們可以反對這次公投案內容你們也可以提出自己的版本但是你不能阻止人民心事公投的權利為什麼不能公投你們在怕什麼你們對大罷免有信心難道對這個公投案就沒有信心嗎"},{"start":128.081,"end":153.328,"text":"請各位支持這個反死刑一致決的公投案交付全民決定請記得反犯死不等於反公投我們只是讓這件事訴諸民意讓我們共同捍衛民主價值讓人民當家作主真正的實現大公投大成功大公投大成功大公投大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":164,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（16時26分）主席、各位同事。台灣民眾黨一向主張人民是頭家，我也主張重大的政策，尤其對於爭議強烈，政府一意孤行，但多項民意調查卻顯示這項政策跟多數民意是不符合的，這個時候就應該交付全民來決定。去年大法官做出死刑須各審級一致決的判決，引起很多人的憤怒，這就是實質的廢死。民進黨如果要廢死，就大大方方地修法，不需要透過幾位御用大法官用個人的意志跟價值在法律程序上搞幾個小動作，直接輾壓、直接凌駕八成以上的民意。","死刑需要一致決，這幾乎是臺灣獨創的制度，廢死與否這麼重大的社會議題、這麼多人關心的議題，當然應該交給全國人民決定，這樣才符合我數十年來長期支持那個政黨由人民作主的主張，那個政黨的名字一開頭就叫民主。民主進步黨在野的時候，民主進步黨選票還贏不了人家的時候，他們就主張公投，如果我說民進黨是靠公投起家也不為過。當年民進黨為了爭取公投，甚至集體絕食抗議，害我們支持者不忍心，急著忙著去送水、去支持。呼籲民進黨，你們可以支持廢死，你們可以反對這次公投案內容，你們也可以提出自己的版本，但是你不能阻止人民行使公投的權利。為什麼不能公投？你們在怕什麼？你們對大罷免有信心，難道對這個公投案就沒有信心嗎？","請各位支持這個反死刑一致決的公投案交付全民決定，請記得反廢死不等於反公投，我們只是讓這件事訴諸民意，讓我們共同捍衛民主價值，讓人民當家作主，真正地實現大公投、大成功！大公投、大成功！大公投、大成功！"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位我們請張啓楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161509","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161509","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746f02e960da5d34935b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc6631682cceb1dba85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"16:22:50 - 16:26:28","影片長度":"00:03:38","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:22:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:26:28+08:00","duration":218,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.4653437500000002,"end":7.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.145343750000002,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.28846875,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.258468750000002,"end":31.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.26221875,"end":33.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.23221875,"end":37.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.79721875,"end":38.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.11346875,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.61534375,"end":43.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.51346875,"end":46.133468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.92659375,"end":48.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.83346875,"end":50.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.774093750000006,"end":51.297218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.46596875,"end":56.157218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.477843750000005,"end":58.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.05971875,"end":60.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.30409375000001,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.45534375,"end":67.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.56034375,"end":73.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.55096875000001,"end":75.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.93471875,"end":78.80346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.63034375000001,"end":81.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.84096875,"end":84.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.30034375000001,"end":87.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.37159375,"end":89.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.65409375,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.88159375000001,"end":93.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.75471875000001,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.35346875,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.78721875000001,"end":103.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.62659375000001,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.54971875000001,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.87784375000001,"end":116.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.58221875000001,"end":125.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.20534375000001,"end":130.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.41971875000002,"end":133.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.57971875,"end":136.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.84909375,"end":139.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.62096875,"end":140.70096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.46034375000002,"end":142.38846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.35034375,"end":144.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.83534375000002,"end":150.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.82159375,"end":152.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.22221875,"end":154.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.33596875,"end":158.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.06096875,"end":161.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.40221875,"end":166.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.48596875,"end":168.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.08034375,"end":173.15159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.13034375,"end":175.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.72909375,"end":177.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.82159375,"end":180.72846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.42034375,"end":185.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.36034375,"end":188.67659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.38534375,"end":190.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.58346875,"end":191.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.98409375,"end":192.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.67596875,"end":193.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.78534375,"end":195.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.76409375,"end":196.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.31659375,"end":199.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.11784375000002,"end":202.31159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.98659375000003,"end":204.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.28596875000002,"end":205.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.97346875000002,"end":208.96034375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.499,"end":3.399,"text":"好 謝謝最近常常感冒"},{"start":29.415,"end":45.957,"text":"並不是我體弱多病是我憂國憂民過去一年多來我個人感覺立法院四處都充滿了瀰漫的病毒這病毒各種各樣的"},{"start":46.96,"end":73.362,"text":"有禍國殃民的 有迴旋亂政的有削弱國家安全 削弱國家主權破壞社會團結 破壞國家經濟成長的各種病毒作為掃除病毒的消毒者我戰戰兢兢 全力以赴希望把立法院瀰漫的病毒一掃而空"},{"start":74.608,"end":94.719,"text":"作為一個少數病毒者我們一定全力以赴而且是死命必達本身雖苦也在所不惜希望大罵免一定要大成功島嶼啊 再次來天光今天討論各級法院"},{"start":96.397,"end":111.484,"text":"法院法官判諸死刑不須一致決定公投提案大家都說過了不管是憲法的內容憲法的解釋公民投票法相關的規定非常明確這樣的公投是一個毀憲違法亂證的低級公投詐騙公投"},{"start":117.705,"end":142.022,"text":"是試圖用公投作為掩蓋藍白過去一年多毀憲亂政的遮羞布以這公投作為影響大罷免的武器各位啊 這種愚蠢的做法是騙不了有智慧的台灣人民最近常常去職棒球場看職棒不管是哪一隊"},{"start":143.39,"end":168.733,"text":"都是挺台灣 大家為這個土地去努力打拼大多是年輕學子 很多是年輕夫婦他們擔憂在未來他們的這個居家貸款他們月額福利會不會受到影響他們台灣的國家安全會不會受到影響但是我在球場上面感受到他們的正面能量他們對國家是充滿信心的"},{"start":170.131,"end":196.196,"text":"但是為什麼這次有風起雲湧的大罷免全國各區域的國民黨的立委都遭受到大罷免第二句的因為你們作為已經得到全體的人民的唾棄剛好我去看球賽碰到我隔壁的被他認出來我說請問住哪裡我住基隆啊"},{"start":197.512,"end":208.79,"text":"那我們都是社會病人的人說對啊 我們都是社會病人的人那不要忘了喔拿出你的選票去罷免在一趴的優秀的"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":158,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（16時23分）謝謝。最近常常感冒，並不是我體弱多病，而是我憂國憂民。過去一年多來，我個人感覺立法院四處都充滿、瀰漫著病毒，且病毒各種各樣，有禍國殃民的、有毀憲亂政的、有削弱國家安全、削弱國家主權的、破壞社會團結、破壞國家經濟成長的各種病毒。作為掃除病毒的消毒者，我戰戰兢兢、全力以赴，希望把立法院瀰漫的病毒一掃而空！作為一個掃除病毒者，我們一定全力以赴，而且是使命必達，粉身碎骨也在所不惜！希望大罷免一定要大成功，島嶼再次迎來天光！","今天討論各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決的公投提案，大家都說過了，不管是憲法的內容、憲法的解釋、公民投票法的相關規定都非常明確，所以這樣的公投就是一個毀憲、違法亂政的低級公投、詐騙公投，是試圖用公投作為掩蓋藍白過去一年多毀憲亂政的遮羞布，以這個公投作為影響大罷免的武器。各位啊，這種愚蠢的作法騙不了有智慧的臺灣人民。","最近常常去職棒球場看職棒，不管是哪一隊，都是挺臺灣，大家為這個土地去努力打拚，大多是年輕學子，很多是年輕夫婦，他們擔憂未來他們的居家貸款、他們的幼兒福利會不會受到影響，臺灣的國家安全會不會受到影響，但是我在球場上感受到他們的正面能量，他們對國家是充滿了信心的。為什麼這一次會有風起雲湧的大罷免？全國各區域的國民黨立委都遭受到大罷免第二階段，因為你們的作為已經得到全體人民的唾棄！剛好我去看球賽，被我隔壁的認出來了，我說：請問你住哪裡？他說：我住基隆。我說：那我們都是社會邊緣人。他說：對啊，我們都是社會邊緣人。我說：不要忘了，拿出你的選票去罷免那1%優秀的這個人，讓基隆能夠回歸正常。大罷免一定要大成功！"],["主席：好，謝謝邱委員。","接下來請陳昭姿委員發言"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161508","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161508","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7469c047b6f5efe89bcb8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbcbe43c8a959977bea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"16:20:12 - 16:22:43","影片長度":"00:02:31","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:20:12+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:22:43+08:00","duration":151,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.98784375,"end":7.759718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.92846875,"end":14.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.77971875,"end":19.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.72409375,"end":21.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.57596875,"end":23.453468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.824718750000002,"end":27.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.70596875,"end":29.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.950343750000002,"end":32.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.46034375,"end":37.932218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.235968750000005,"end":39.43409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.31159375,"end":41.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.88096875,"end":47.534093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.75346875,"end":58.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.63784375,"end":63.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.42596875000001,"end":72.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.69471875,"end":75.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.15409375,"end":90.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.37971875000001,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.91909375,"end":97.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.95659375000001,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.15034375,"end":102.78284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.27221875000001,"end":110.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.67596875000001,"end":113.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.17346875000001,"end":118.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.91534375,"end":132.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.61784375000002,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.52909375000002,"end":141.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.49409375000002,"end":148.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.49721875,"end":150.18471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.024,"end":21.742,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我們要面對的要表決的是國民黨自以為反會死的公投案主文是你是否同意各級法院和議題法官的判處死刑不需要一致"},{"start":22.623,"end":39.08,"text":"的政策坦白說這根本就是一個法律上的一個荒謬還有政治上的一個虛假民主上失格的一個公民頭案首先就法律面來講這項主文本來就是錯的我相信很多"},{"start":40.373,"end":57.851,"text":"民進黨的同仁把這一個在法律上層面錯誤的一個議題講得非常的清楚了這個不是行政院的政策也不是立法院的立法決定而是憲法法庭在去年9月20號所做成的一個判決的要求"},{"start":58.752,"end":82.992,"text":"是憲法層級的一個要求 是我們對人權的最低的一個底線可是國民黨卻把憲法層級的一個司法判決扭曲成可以用公投表決的一個政策這個不只是一個錯誤 更是憲法上不斷不斷的一個錯誤更進一步的講 大法官並沒有宣告死刑是違憲的"},{"start":84.073,"end":105.941,"text":"甚至在今年的一夜台灣也有把死刑換被依法執行換句話說台灣並沒有賄死也沒有賄死的法律條文國民黨卻打著緩賄死的大旗發動了公投請問你們到底在緩什麼你們是在緩賄死還是在緩事實還是在緩憲法緩罷免緩失業呢"},{"start":111.921,"end":139.402,"text":"說得清楚一點這就是一場假議題的政治操作什麼是緩會死什麼是緩戒嚴說穿了就是國民黨怕被罷免怕對人民的怒火所以才用急著用公投去綁救援用社會對正義的關心來轉移焦點騙取同情我想在這裡我們大家看得很清楚人民的眼睛是血亮的人民受不了違憲的藍白"},{"start":141.824,"end":149.937,"text":"惡搞國家人民受夠了各位國人讓我們一起用罷免教訓這些失格的立委大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":152,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（16時20分）主席、各位同仁。今天我們要面對的、要表決的是國民黨自以為反廢死的公投案，主文是「你是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策」。坦白說，這根本就是一個法律上荒謬、政治上虛假及民主上失格的公投案！","首先，就法律面來講，這項主文本來就是錯的，很多民進黨同仁已經就這個法律層面上錯誤的議題講得非常清楚了。這不是行政院的政策，也不是立法院的立法決定，而是憲法法庭在去年9月20號所做成的判決要求，是憲法層級的要求，是我們對人權的最低底線。可是國民黨卻把憲法層級的司法判決扭曲成可以用公投表決的政策，這不只是一個錯誤，更是憲法上不斷的錯誤。","更進一步講，大法官並沒有宣告死刑違憲，甚至在今年1月也有死刑犯依法執行。換句話說，臺灣並沒有廢死，也沒有廢死的法律條文，國民黨卻打著反廢死的大旗發動公投，請問你們到底在反什麼？你們是反廢死還是在反事實？抑或在反憲法、反罷免、反失業呢？","說得清楚一點，這就是一場假議題的政治操作！什麼是反廢死？什麼是反戒嚴？說穿了就是國民黨怕被罷免，怕面對人民的怒火，所以才急著用公投綁救援，用社會對正義的關心來轉移焦點，騙取同情，這點大家看得很清楚，人民的眼睛是雪亮的，人民受不了違憲的藍白惡搞國家，人民受夠了！各位國人，讓我們一起用罷免來教訓這些失格的立委，大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","下一位請林岱樺委員發言。林岱樺委員、林岱樺委員，林岱樺委員不在。","我們請邱志偉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161507","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161507","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7464312f5c6ac89b286b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc0b16ca848615eb905ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"16:16:51 - 16:20:05","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:16:51+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:20:05+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.489093750000002,"end":12.636593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.10909375,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.96909375,"end":20.972843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.63096875,"end":28.887218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.44409375,"end":31.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.48159375,"end":35.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.565343750000004,"end":38.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.84346875,"end":40.446593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.75034375,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.62284375,"end":47.500343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.040343750000005,"end":49.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.09909375,"end":50.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.16221875,"end":53.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.47409375,"end":55.752218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.30909375,"end":56.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.13596875,"end":62.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.16034375,"end":65.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.28221875,"end":67.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.44221875000001,"end":71.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.53034375,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.58471875000001,"end":79.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.68096875,"end":95.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.84721875000001,"end":97.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.02409375,"end":106.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.11971875,"end":109.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.08971875,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.39284375000001,"end":122.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.40846875000001,"end":127.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.85909375000001,"end":128.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.66909375,"end":129.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.06971875000002,"end":131.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.94284375,"end":133.44471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.95096875000002,"end":138.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.86159375,"end":141.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.23659375,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.20659375,"end":146.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.72534375,"end":149.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.89784375000002,"end":151.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.41221875000002,"end":160.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.67659375000002,"end":172.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.18534375000002,"end":174.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.75471875000002,"end":179.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.30659375000002,"end":181.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.82534375,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.54659375,"end":184.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.79534375,"end":185.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.24659375000002,"end":193.80659375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.533,"end":38.006,"text":"主席各位同仁我今天要來揭穿這個提案人的滿口的謊言他這次吳宗憲委員所提出的這個公投主文是你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策其實他這個就是在扭曲因為這個是憲法法庭的判決內容根本就不是一個政策"},{"start":38.871,"end":67.289,"text":"那他為什麼要這樣寫呢他因為要把它包裝成說他是在創製一個政策的這個外貌以符合這個公投法規定必須要包裝必須要是創製法律政策的外貌所以他討論的東西根本就不是一個政策是一個憲法法庭的判決那憲法法庭的判決他是憲法層次的剛剛很多委員都講過了"},{"start":68.49,"end":97.484,"text":"法律跟命令抵觸憲法者無效憲法法庭就可以宣告法律跟命令違憲那全國各機關還有人民都要受到憲法法庭的拘束結果你現在把憲法法庭的判決拿來當作公投的政策這根本就也違反了憲法這個法律違憲的概念法律跟政策抵觸憲法者無效這我想是基本常識如果連這個都不知道那他的憲法是在學什麼呢"},{"start":98.244,"end":127.207,"text":"吳宗孝委員在提案說明的時候說全世界民主國家都沒有要求死刑判決必須一致決我就跟你講說你就是扯瞞天大謊全世界的法律基本上分成兩大法系我們台灣這個大陸法系是先有成文法後面再進入每一個個案的時候依照成文法來判決另外還有一個很大的體系叫英美法系他們的採取主要是陪審團制度"},{"start":127.907,"end":151.485,"text":"我想沒有看過 大家都有嘗試啦陪審團就是明確 連有沒有成立犯罪都必須陪審團一字決更不要講說判死刑 必須一字決所以吳宗憲在那邊講說全世界的民主國家沒有這樣的制度我想問 美國 英國這些國家不是民主國家嗎"},{"start":152.466,"end":173.899,"text":"他們的國家裡面要判決被告有罪還不是死刑喔就必須是全體陪審團一致的決定所以提案人在這個地方提案說明的時候滿天扯謊然後用這樣子詐欺的方式要來通過這個公投案然後讓人民來公投我想說喔"},{"start":174.893,"end":193.561,"text":"司法官特考很遺憾還有這些法律系的學生他說曾經當過檢察官是因為沒有考憲法嗎所以對憲法不知道嗎我覺得不是啦是他很壞利用這樣的扭曲利用大家的資訊落差要達到他這個惡搞的目的所以大罵免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":147,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（16時17分）主席、各位同仁，我今天要來揭穿這個提案人的滿口謊言，這次吳宗憲委員提出的公投主文是：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」其實這就是在扭曲，因為這個是憲法法庭的判決內容，根本就不是一個政策。那他為什麼要這樣寫呢？因為他要把它包裝成是在創制一個政策的外貌，為符合公投法規定，必須要包裝成創制法律政策的外貌，他討論的東西根本就不是一個政策，是一個憲法法庭的判決。憲法法庭的判決是憲法層次的，剛剛很多委員都講過了，法律跟命令牴觸憲法者無效，憲法法庭就可以宣告法律跟命令違憲，全國各級機關還有人民都要受到憲法法庭的拘束，結果他現在把憲法法庭的判決拿來當作公投的政策，這根本就違反了憲法法律位階的概念。法律跟政策牴觸憲法者無效，我想這是基本常識，如果連這個都不知道，那他的憲法是在學什麼呢？","吳宗憲委員在提案說明的時候說：全世界民主國家都沒有要求死刑判決必須一致決。我跟你講：你就是扯瞞天大謊。基本上全世界的法律分成兩大法系，我們臺灣是大陸法系，是先有成文法，後面進入每一個個案的時候是依照成文法來判決；另外還有一個很大的體系叫做英美法系，他們主要採取的是陪審團制度。我想大家都要有常識，陪審團就是明確地連有沒有成立犯罪都必須陪審團一致決，更不要講判死刑必須一致決。所以吳宗憲在那邊講全世界的民主國家沒有這樣的制度，我想問美國、英國這些國家不是民主國家嗎？他們的國家裡面要判決被告有罪，還不是死刑喔，就必須是全體陪審團一致的決定。所以提案人在這個地方做提案說明時漫天扯謊，用詐欺的方式通過這個公投案，要讓人民公投。","我覺得很遺憾，對於司法官特考還有這些法律系的學生，他說他曾經當過檢察官，難道是因為沒有考憲法嗎？所以不知道憲法嗎？我覺得不是，是他很壞！利用這樣的扭曲、利用大家的資訊落差達到他惡搞的目的，所以大罷免！大成功！"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","下一位請賴惠員委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161506","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161506","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7463b841ee749b253a3b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbce845366a77bfd4645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"16:13:39 - 16:16:44","影片長度":"00:03:05","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:13:39+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:16:44+08:00","duration":185,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.185343750000001,"end":21.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.47909375,"end":23.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.75721875,"end":32.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.93721875,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.31596875,"end":41.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.43784375,"end":46.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.02784375,"end":54.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.634093750000005,"end":67.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.25659375000001,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.64409375000001,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.53659375000001,"end":87.64596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.78096875,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.08284375000001,"end":102.79971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.08659375,"end":108.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.77346875,"end":117.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.14346875000001,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.23596875000001,"end":123.80909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.18034375,"end":137.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.46096875,"end":138.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.82784375,"end":147.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.20596875,"end":169.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.41784375,"end":176.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.04971875,"end":184.84596875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.289,"end":38.591,"text":"國民黨提出的公投就是愚民公投就是詐騙公投而且它的公投文本身有三個違反第一違反公投精神公投的核心是讓人民行使直接民權讓沒有行政權與立法權的公民有機會提出國民黨作為民代作為立委連公投的核心都不知道連法律都不會看"},{"start":39.392,"end":67.017,"text":"法學者很多早就站出來講有法學者說這個公投主文醜態百出東吳大學法學院的特聘教授張嘉穎甚至用狗屁不通來形容這個公投主文國民黨自己作為國會多數不敢自己提修法只敢投機取巧濫用公投法給的優待連自己動員連署都不敢是逃避責任"},{"start":68.288,"end":87.027,"text":"第二 這個公投違反公投法本身立法院提出的公投很明確的只能針對重大政策創制覆決也就是目前政府沒有在做的要做已經在做的廢止那現在的何怡婷一致決"},{"start":87.968,"end":116.605,"text":"根本不是重大政策创制复决它是宪法法庭判决的结果那这种诈骗公投形式上就违反公投法的相关要件第三违反宪政秩序宪法法庭的判决的未接等同宪法效率比公投还高今天就算公投投出结果也可能就是违宪所以它根本就是浪费公党的无效公投"},{"start":117.385,"end":136.648,"text":"國民黨連這個都不知道嗎我不相信同樣的很多的法學者已經說國民黨其中一位講國民黨的公投案明顯違憲就像寫在額頭上跟反Face無關只是要進行認知作戰這不是我們立委講的是學者講的"},{"start":137.569,"end":146.898,"text":"學者也批評立法院作為國家機關把有違憲疑慮的法案交由公民投票職權行使有違憲的嫌疑"},{"start":149.246,"end":169.706,"text":"最後我們要呼籲所有在看轉播的公民請大家告訴大家藍白立委今天要闖關詐騙公投愚弄人民就是為了反制大罷免他們要動員支持者的感情要愚弄支持者的智慧他們真正害怕的就是大罷免"},{"start":170.467,"end":183.952,"text":"面對這種違憲違反公投法形式違反公投法精神的公投案我想只有人民可以教訓他們所以我還是只有一句話該罷就罷大罷免大成功謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":142,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（16時13分）國民黨提出的公投就是愚民公投，就是詐騙公投，而且它的公投文本身有三個違反：第一，違反公投精神，公投的核心是讓人民行使直接民權，讓沒有行政權與立法權的公民有機會提出，國民黨作為民代、作為立委，連公投的核心都不知道，連法律都不會看。法學者很多早就站出來講，有法學者說這個公投主文醜態百出，東吳大學法學院的特聘教授張嘉尹甚至用狗屁不通來形容這個公投主文。國民黨自己作為國會多數，不敢自己提修法，只敢投機取巧、濫用公投法給的優待，連自己動員連署都不敢，是逃避責任。第二，這個公投違反公投法本身。立法院提出的公投，很明確地只能針對重大政策創制、複決，也就是目前政府沒有在做的要做，已經在做的要廢止。現在的合議庭一致決，根本不是重大政策的創制、複決，它是憲法法庭判決的結果，這種詐騙公投在形式上就違反公投法的相關要件。","第三，違反憲政秩序，憲法法庭判決的位階等同憲法，效力比公投還高，今天就算公投投出結果也可能是違憲，所以它根本就是浪費公帑的無效公投，國民黨連這個都不知道嗎？我不相信。同樣的，很多的法學者已經說，其中有一位講國民黨的公投案明顯違憲，就像寫在額頭上，跟反廢死無關，只是要進行認知作戰；這不是我們立委講的，是學者講的。學者也批評立法院作為國家機關，把有違憲疑慮的法案交由公民投票，職權行使有違憲的嫌疑。","最後，我們要呼籲所有在看轉播的公民，請大家告訴大家，今天藍、白立委要闖關詐騙公投、愚弄人民就是為了反制大罷免，他們要動員支持者的感情，要愚弄支持者的智慧，他們真正害怕的就是大罷免。面對這種違憲、違反公投法形式、違反公投法精神的公投案，我想只有人民可以教訓他們。所以我還是只有一句話：該罷就罷，大罷免、大成功，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝范委員。","下一位請吳秉叡委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161505","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161505","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7463674989ac1a201c1b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc43b8e70d39bd81cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"16:10:44 - 16:13:32","影片長度":"00:02:48","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:10:44+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:13:32+08:00","duration":168,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.90346875,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.72159375,"end":130.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.39034375,"end":141.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.20284375,"end":146.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.41721875000002,"end":166.60409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.931,"end":19.274,"text":"主席 各位立院同仁國民黨在過去一年多來不斷與中國離英外合在立法院通過各種民主倒退的法案國民黨為了擴大自己的權力提出國會擴權法案"},{"start":21.335,"end":47.295,"text":"被大法官宣告违宪后又继续提出宪诉法实质瘫痪宪法法庭在野兰人民的怒火之后为了自己的利益又提出选罢法提高罢免门槛上限试图让国民党掌握如共产党般的独裁权力国民党持续以多数的优势提出瘫痪行政效能削弱台湾国家安全的离谱内容"},{"start":48.576,"end":64.451,"text":"2014年總預算再遭到在野黨通刪939億其中636億更是無理由的要求行政院自行調整刪減內容顯見在野黨根本就是為刪而刪而根本為就各部會的業務進行實質的監督"},{"start":66.753,"end":84.676,"text":"而離島建設條例更是直接開放中國醫生無照來台執業協助中國洗產地讓台灣門戶大開是國家安全人民權益不顧在民眾的怒火之下開始自發性的對國民黨進行大罷免"},{"start":85.197,"end":102.305,"text":"多數的藍營區域立委都已經達到二階罷免門檻這個時候國民黨又試圖轉移民眾的焦點不敢透過全民連署只敢利用立法院的多數優勢用取巧的方式提出空殼公投案"},{"start":103.125,"end":126.796,"text":"创制、复决是宪法保障的人民基本权利所以公投案是由人民提案为原则立法院虽然可以提案交付人民公投但必须是对国家重要政策而且以不违反宪法权利分立原则为前提这个假议题的公投案侵犯了司法权违反权利分立原则"},{"start":127.256,"end":145.994,"text":"而且是文不對題的假公投各級法院和議庭法官判決是否一字決與廢除死刑完全無關更何況台灣沒有廢除死刑何來反廢死的說法國民黨以假公投欺騙民眾轉移罷免的焦點"},{"start":147.455,"end":166.306,"text":"奉勸國民黨不要再做背離人心的政治操作放下對權力的執著放下自身的利益才能跟民眾站在一起我們要捍衛台灣珍貴的民主自由請罷免胡適任立委大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":138,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（16時10分）主席、各位立院同仁。國民黨在過去一年多來不斷與中國裡應外合，在立法院通過各種民主倒退的法案。國民黨為了擴大自己的權力，提出國會擴權法案，被大法官宣告違憲後，又繼續提出憲訴法，實質癱瘓憲法法庭。在點燃人民的怒火之後，為了自己的利益又提出選罷法，提高罷免門檻上限，試圖讓國民黨掌握如共產黨般的獨裁權力。國民黨持續以多數優勢提出癱瘓行政效能、削弱臺灣國家安全的離譜內容，114年總預算遭到在野黨通刪939億，其中636億更是無理由地要求行政院自行調整刪減內容，顯見在野黨根本就是為刪而刪，根本未就各部會的業務進行實質的監督。而離島建設條例更是直接開放中國醫生無照來臺執業，協助中國洗產地，讓臺灣門戶大開，置國家安全、人民權益於不顧。","在民眾的怒火之下，開始自發性地對國民黨進行大罷免，多數的藍營區域立委都已經達到二階罷免門檻，這個時候國民黨又試圖轉移民眾的焦點，不敢透過全民連署，只敢利用立法院的多數優勢，用取巧的方式提出空殼公投案。創制、複決是憲法保障的人民基本權利，所以公投案是由人民提案為原則，立法院雖然可以提案交付人民公投，但必須是對國家重要政策，而且以不違反憲法權力分立原則為前提。這個假議題的公投案侵犯了司法權，違反權力分立原則，而且是文不對題的假公投。各級法院合議庭法官判決是否一致決，與廢除死刑完全無關，更何況臺灣沒有廢除死刑，何來反廢死的說法？國民黨以假公投欺騙民眾，轉移罷免的焦點。奉勸國民黨不要再做背離人心的政治操作，放下對權力的執著，放下自身的利益，才能跟民眾站在一起。我們要捍衛臺灣珍貴的民主自由，請罷免不適任立委。大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員。","下一位請范雲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161504","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161504","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746a741aed5090638abb8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbcd6b39e882d62cf0b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"16:07:56 - 16:10:35","影片長度":"00:02:39","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:07:56+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:10:35+08:00","duration":159,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.25721875,"end":14.594093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.982218750000001,"end":26.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.199718750000002,"end":30.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.92909375,"end":32.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.93721875,"end":34.337843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.658468750000004,"end":37.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.57784375,"end":43.922843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.159093750000004,"end":57.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.87846875,"end":60.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.51096875,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.72971875,"end":65.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.18096875,"end":72.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.37409375,"end":76.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.94721875,"end":77.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.84159375,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.60909375,"end":84.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.72659375,"end":85.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.72221875000001,"end":102.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.33971875,"end":110.34284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.76471875,"end":112.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.80659375,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.50659375000001,"end":115.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.38409375,"end":117.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.44721875,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.89346875000001,"end":127.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.89284375000001,"end":130.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.44096875,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.12846875,"end":134.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.72721875000002,"end":137.24159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.86596875,"end":140.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.65034375000002,"end":142.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.11846875,"end":152.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.88471875000002,"end":155.34846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.83784375000002,"end":157.40721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.281,"end":14.284,"text":"主席各位議員同仁各位國人同胞大家好"},{"start":15.506,"end":36.757,"text":"針對國民黨所提的今天的公投案我認為在法治上有以下的幾個問題首先依據我國憲法法庭113年憲判制第八號的判決主文第六點就已經寫得非常的清楚科處死刑的判決應經各級法院和議庭法官的一致決"},{"start":37.757,"end":63.651,"text":"這是非常清楚的事情而且我國是法治國家憲法判決具有具屬全國各機關及人民的效力我想在憲政權利分立及法治國的原則下我們作為立法委員更應該要遵守尊重憲法法庭的判決再來公投的議題屬於法律原則的創制公投必須在"},{"start":65.058,"end":83.94,"text":"憲法及法律秩序內部進行而且將來相關的政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律不得抵觸大法官憲制及憲法的基本原則所以此案若違背憲法層級的解釋即時通過了相關法律修正亦屬無效"},{"start":84.781,"end":110.073,"text":"而且合議制度的原則設計本來就是要保障司法判決是多元觀點與慎重考慮尤其在涉及死刑的重大案件上要求法官一致同意才可判處死刑是為了要確保國家不輕率剝奪人民的生命將死刑判決門檻降低至多數決反而可能會導致冤錯案件機率的上升"},{"start":111.014,"end":139.486,"text":"違背程序正義進而損害司法的信賴最後 死刑議題關係到最基本的人權的保障不應該被簡化為政治動員的手段死刑是一種國家權利對生命的最終剝奪應該有最嚴格的程序保障國民黨此次公投案試圖鬆綁司法合一的制度降低國家殺人的門檻"},{"start":141.707,"end":157.162,"text":"違憲違法違反情理實不可取我們呼籲全國國人基於對生命尊嚴的尊重對憲政體制的捍衛拒絕此一違憲背離司法正義的公投提案大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":133,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（16時8分）主席、各位立院同仁、各位國人同胞，大家好。針對國民黨今天所提的公投案，我認為在法制上有以下幾個問題：首先，依據我國憲法法庭113年憲判字第8號的判決，主文第六點就已經寫得非常清楚，科處死刑的判決，應經各級法院合議庭法官一致決，這是非常清楚的事情，而且我國是法治國家，憲法判決具有拘束全國各機關及人民的效力，我想在憲政權力分立及法治國的原則下，我們作為立法委員，更應該要遵守、尊重憲法法庭的判決。","再來，公投的議題屬於法律原則的創制，公投必須在憲法及法律秩序內部進行，而且將來相關的政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律，不得牴觸大法官的限制及憲法的基本原則，所以此案若違背憲法層級的解釋，即使通過了，相關法律修正亦屬無效。而且合議制度的設計，本來就是要保障司法判決之多元觀點與慎重考慮，尤其在涉及死刑的重大案件上，要求法官要一致同意才可判處死刑，是為了要確保國家不輕率剝奪人民的生命，將死刑判決門檻降低至多數決，反而可能會導致冤錯案件機率上升，違背程序正義，進而損害人民對司法的信賴。","最後，死刑議題關係到最基本人權的保障，不應該被簡化為政治動員的手段。死刑是一種國家權力對生命的最終剝奪，應該有最嚴格的程序保障，國民黨此次公投案試圖鬆綁司法合議的制度、降低國家殺人的門檻，違憲、違法、違反情理實不可取。我們呼籲全國國人，基於對生命尊嚴的尊重，對憲政體制的捍衛，拒絕此一違憲、背離司法正義的公投提案。大罷免，大成功！"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","下一位我們請陳秀寳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161503","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161503","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7463d148a38ff908730b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc6365cf59414950575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"16:04:35 - 16:07:49","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:04:35+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:07:49+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.03784375,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.40034375,"end":146.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.30346875,"end":152.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.17596875,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.18721875,"end":167.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.71784375000001,"end":192.35534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.684,"end":25.702,"text":"謝謝主席還有各位委員大家午安國民黨今天提反廢死公投根本就是假議題因為我們看到台灣目前仍然有死刑我們的刑法陸海空軍刑法毒品危害防治條例"},{"start":26.743,"end":52.905,"text":"槍炮彈藥刀械管制條例兒童及少年性剝削防治條例這些現行法律的條文裡面都仍然有處於死刑的刑罰民進黨執政從來也沒有說要廢除死刑到目前也從來沒有任何一位委員提案要廢除死刑所以今天國民黨說要反廢死公投不知道是在反什麼我們來看一下國民黨的公投主文是"},{"start":53.385,"end":82.473,"text":"您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策所以這個公投主文並非在詢問同意或不同意廢死今天呢各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑要不要經過一致決來公投操弄等同於反廢死公投還說要作為修法或研議相關配套法案之重要基礎明明現行的法律裡面都有死刑的刑法所以不曉得是要修什麼法"},{"start":82.873,"end":108.048,"text":"所以这根本就是在诈骗我们看到宪法法庭113年宪判制第8号判决宣告死刑为有条件核限在114年1月16日也才执行枪决黄姓死刑犯所以证明是有死刑的在宪法法庭做出死刑需以自觉的解释之后在今年的3月10号高雄地方法院114年度"},{"start":109.048,"end":123.395,"text":"從數字第一號刑事判決何一庭的三名法官也是一致決判處無性男子死刑所以這個在在都證明了台灣目前就是有死刑的存在那國民黨今天針對憲法法庭的判決主文"},{"start":124.935,"end":151.501,"text":"來推這個公投再再證明了他們迴憲亂政的行為因為我們看到2018年的11月當時立法院司法法治委員會的會議邀請時任司法院秘書長呂太郎列席立法委員劉世芳有詢問大法官解釋的法律未接與公投案的法律未接哪邊比較高呂太郎秘書長當時表示大法官的釋憲未接比較高"},{"start":152.321,"end":181.885,"text":"大法官解釋是憲法解釋未接效力就是等同憲法是最高層次公投的議題屬於法律原則的創製將來相關政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律不能抵觸大法官解釋因為大法官解釋的未接就跟憲法一樣所以在這邊要再次的強調公投案只能決定法律立法原則或重大政策大法官的解釋未接等同憲法根本不可能是公投可以推翻的"},{"start":182.345,"end":192.127,"text":"所以毀憲亂政的藍白立委在立法院的一天國家勇如臨至所以要讓國家正常運作國泰民安就是大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":127,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（16時4分）謝謝主席及各位委員，大家午安。國民黨今天提反廢死公投，根本就是假議題，因為我們看到臺灣目前仍然有死刑，我們的刑法、陸海空軍刑法、毒品危害防制條例、槍炮彈藥刀械管制條例、兒童及少年性剝削防制條例，這些現行法律的條文裡面，都仍然有處以死刑的刑罰。民進黨執政從來也沒有說要廢除死刑，到目前也從來沒有任何一位委員提案要廢除死刑，所以今天國民黨說要反廢死公投，不知道是在反什麼。","我們來看一下國民黨的公投主文是「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」，所以這個公投主文並非在詢問同意或不同意廢死。今天各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑要不要經過一致決來公投，操弄等同於反廢死公投，還說要作為修法或研議相關配套法案之重要基礎。明明現行法律裡面都有死刑的刑罰，所以不曉得是要修什麼法，這根本就是在詐騙。","我們看到憲法法庭113年憲判字第8號判決宣告死刑為有條件合憲，在114年1月16日也才執行槍決黃姓死刑犯，所以證明是有死刑的。在憲法法庭作出死刑須一致決的解釋之後，在今年3月10號高雄地方法院114年度重訴字第1號刑事判決，合議庭的三名法官也是一致決判處吳姓男子死刑，在在證明了臺灣目前就是有死刑的存在。國民黨今天針對憲法法庭的判決主文來推這個公投，在在證明了他們毀憲亂政的行為。","我們看到2018年11月，當時立法院司法及法制委員會的會議，邀請時任司法院秘書長呂太郎列席。立法委員劉世芳詢問，大法官解釋的法律位階與公投案的法律位階哪邊比較高？呂太郎秘書長當時表示，大法官的釋憲位階比較高，大法官解釋是憲法解釋，位階效力就是等同憲法，是最高層次。公投的議題屬於法律原則的創制，將來相關政府部門依據公投結果制定的法律，不能牴觸大法官解釋，因為大法官解釋的位階就跟憲法一樣。所以在這邊要再次強調，公投案只能決定法律、立法原則或重大政策。大法官的解釋位階等同憲法，根本不可能是公投可以推翻的，所以有毀憲亂政的藍白立委在立法院的一天，國家就永無寧日，要讓國家正常運作、國泰民安，就是「大罷免、大成功」！"],["主席：好，謝謝陳委員。","下一位請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161502","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161502","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7467d3ae9ca246e4233b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc0f7628e6d07117175ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅美玲","委員發言時間":"16:01:09 - 16:04:27","影片長度":"00:03:18","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T16:01:09+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:04:27+08:00","duration":198,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.539718750000002,"end":126.86346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.23471875000001,"end":195.81471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.587,"end":27.976,"text":"主席各位同仁我們現在要討論的是吳宗憲委員等52人所提案的所謂的反廢死公投案其實這公投案的提案的主文是你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑"},{"start":28.436,"end":56.133,"text":"不需以自決之政策基本上這個公投案跟反廢死是無關的可是我們卻看到藍白刻意以這個反廢死來宣傳這個公投案事實上台灣根本就沒有廢除死刑不論是刑法還是刑法訴訟法死刑依舊是法定最高刑法之一卻在多起重大刑案當中法院還是有判處死刑"},{"start":56.693,"end":77.878,"text":"那憲法法庭113年憲判自第8號判決一宣告死刑核限因此反廢死跟這個公投其實完全是沒有關係的那公投的這個效果呢只能夠影響政策或是立法在死刑根本沒有廢除的狀況之下呢這個公投案過跟不過"},{"start":78.698,"end":104.401,"text":"根本無法達到廢死或反廢死的狀況那更深層的問題是這項公投案可能連形式上都不合憲是無效的根據公投法第15條規定立法院僅能提出針對立法原則之創制及重大政策之創制或覆決所以立法院可以提的是覆決案"},{"start":105.522,"end":126.427,"text":"可以提的覆决案是重大政策之覆决如同今天早上一位委员提到就是国民党也知道说这是违反这个公投法所以才会在这个公投主文后面的硬是加上政策两个字可是我想请问大家判处死刑需不需要一致决这是政策吗"},{"start":127.487,"end":140.176,"text":"當然不是啊是憲法法庭的這個判決跟政策無關更何況司法審判的獨立性立法院怎麼可以提案來干涉呢而且辦一場公投必須花費9億到10億的這個"},{"start":143.359,"end":158.971,"text":"更何況這是一個沒有意義也無效的公投我想我們都支持社會辯論死刑的存廢也不逃避對制度進行檢討改革的責任但我們也必須了解死刑是奪取人生命的刑罰本來就應該要審慎來執行"},{"start":162.253,"end":191.753,"text":"再者我们立法机关所做的决定也都应该在宪法法律框架之下来进行国民党之所以硬要提这样的假议题公投纯粹是制造民粹打击政府破坏民主好转移他们在立法院毁线乱政这种预算胡搞乱山引起人民大罢免的焦点面对这样子荒谬的闹剧我们一定会坚守意识殿堂守制制度在这里我们还是要呼吁"},{"start":192.294,"end":195.045,"text":"南北两岛及早悬崖勒马"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":122,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（16時1分）主席、各位同仁。我們現在要討論的是吳宗憲委員等52人提案的反廢死公投案。其實這個公投案的提案主文是，「您是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決之政策？」基本上，這個公投案跟反廢死是無關的，可是我們卻看到藍白刻意以反廢死宣傳這個公投案。事實上，臺灣根本就沒有廢除死刑，不論是刑法還是刑事訴訟法，死刑依舊是法定最高刑罰之一，且在多起重大刑案當中，法院還是有判處死刑。","憲法法庭113年憲判字第8號判決宣告死刑合憲，因此反廢死跟公投其實完全是沒有關係的，公投的效果只能夠影響政策或是立法，在死刑根本沒有廢除的狀況之下，這個公投案過與不過根本無法達到廢死或反廢死的狀況，更深層的問題是，這項公投案可能連形式上都不合憲，是無效的。根據公投法第十五條規定，立法院僅能提出針對立法原則之創制及重大政策之創制或複決，所以立法院可以提的複決案是重大政策之複決。如同今天早上也有委員提到，國民黨也知道這違反公投法，所以才會在這個公投主文後面硬是加上「政策」兩個字。可是我想請問大家，判處死刑需不需要一致決是政策嗎？當然不是，是憲法法庭的判決，跟政策無關，更何況司法審判的獨立性，立法院怎麼可以提案干涉呢？而且辦一場公投必須花費9億到10億的公帑，更何況這是一個沒有意義也無效的公投。","我們都支持社會辯論死刑的存廢，也不逃避對制度進行檢討改革的責任，但我們也必須了解，死刑是奪取人生命的刑罰，本來就應該要審慎執行。再者，立法機關所作的決定，也都應該在憲法、法律框架之下進行。國民黨之所以硬要提這樣的假議題公投，純粹是製造民粹，打擊政府、破壞民主，好轉移他們在立法院毀憲亂政、在總預算胡搞亂刪引起人民大罷免的焦點。面對這樣子荒謬的鬧劇，我們一定會堅守議事殿堂、守住制度。在這裡我們還是要呼籲藍白兩黨及早懸崖勒馬，不要成為踐踏民主的幫兇，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。","下一位請陳素月委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161501","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161501","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7462622f69531295291b8e2d73ce5d96c5b4ebb0ed34a0e2cbc3eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"15:57:52 - 16:01:01","影片長度":"00:03:09","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:57:52+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T16:01:01+08:00","duration":189,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.585968750000003,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.39034375,"end":28.043468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.33034375,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.38034375,"end":71.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.50909375,"end":81.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.60471875,"end":85.13159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.51971875000001,"end":91.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.76346875,"end":99.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.25159375000001,"end":101.50034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.58034375000001,"end":108.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.52034375000001,"end":108.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.95471875000001,"end":111.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.08096875000001,"end":139.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.87409375000001,"end":141.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.33784375000002,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.01221875000002,"end":156.31034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.64784375000002,"end":158.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.84159375000002,"end":168.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.65846875,"end":175.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.05846875,"end":178.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.17596875,"end":187.34346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.622,"end":35.929,"text":"好 主席我們全國國人大家好我嚴正的譴責我們在野黨在立法院所提出的反會死的公投案這樣的提案完全是多此一擊讓立法院的意識空轉浪費寶貴的公共資源首先台灣目前的法律上仍然存在死刑的制度"},{"start":36.509,"end":53.977,"text":"今年1月才剛執行死刑今年的3月也有法官判死死刑並不像在野黨所說的現在是實質的會死而死刑是否執行是由司法與行政機關依照法令針對個案來審慎衡量而定"},{"start":59.46,"end":80.443,"text":"那在野黨提出的反會時公投不但無制於制度的改革反而是加深的對立製造的爭議完全是一種政治的操作而在野黨提出的公投內容所寫的你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判決"},{"start":82.104,"end":108.657,"text":"處死刑不惜一致解的政策這不是要問要不要廢除死刑而是在做挑戰法院怎麼做出死刑判決的程序這並不是一個可以靠公投決定的政策方向因為依法立法院提公投應該是針對行政機關重大政策而"},{"start":110.017,"end":138.468,"text":"法院判決的門檻審判的流程根本不是行政機關的業務反而我們是立法機關自己該用的法例來規範的內容而且就算司法院法務部真的照在野黨的意思推出死刑不息一字節的草案未來這部法例也有可能會被大法官先告違憲"},{"start":139.969,"end":168.481,"text":"因為這一個法例就是和憲法底次的解釋底次這不是要挺不挺死刑的問題而是我們要鎖制司法的獨立憲政的自細的底線如果這個案子過了以後是不是每個法院的程序都可以開放來做公投我們不反對討論死刑的制度"},{"start":169.704,"end":184.597,"text":"但這個方向 這個方式真的是不對也走不通在這邊我還慎重的來拜託在野黨會此實行台灣目前沒有會此實行這個議題好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":119,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（15時58分）主席、全國國人，大家好。我嚴正地譴責在野黨在立法院提出的反廢死公投案，這樣的提案完全是多此一舉，讓立法院的議事空轉，浪費寶貴的公共資源。首先，臺灣目前的法律仍然存在死刑的制度，今年1月才剛執行死刑，今年3月也有法官判處死刑，並不像在野黨所說的，現在是實質的廢死。而死刑是否執行，是由司法與行政機關依照法令，針對個案審慎衡量而定。在野黨提出的反廢死公投，不但無助於制度的改革，反而加深了對立，製造了爭議，完全是一種政治操作。在野黨提出的公投內容寫：你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判決處死刑不須一致決的政策。這不是要問要不要廢除死刑，而是在挑戰法院怎麼做出死刑判決的程序，這並不是一個可以靠公投決定的政策方向，因為依法，立法院提公投，應該是針對行政機關的重大政策，而法院判決的門檻、審判的流程，根本不是行政機關的業務，反而是立法機關自己該用法律規範的內容，而且就算司法院、法務部真的照在野黨的意思，推出死刑不須一致決的草案，未來這部法律也有可能會被大法官宣告違憲，因為這個法律就是抵制憲法解釋。這不是挺不挺死刑的問題，而是我們要守住司法獨立、憲政秩序的底線。如果這個案子過了，以後是不是每個法院的程序都可以開放公投？我們不反對討論死刑的制度，但這個方向、這個方式真的不對，也走不通。在這邊我慎重地拜託在野黨，廢除死刑，臺灣目前沒有廢除死刑這個議題，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。","接下來請羅美玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161500","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161500","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746daf78a15651a0b7bb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a328b9a2276f57a04d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"15:54:57 - 15:57:45","影片長度":"00:02:48","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:54:57+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:57:45+08:00","duration":168,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.48596875,"end":22.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.52534375,"end":52.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.74846875,"end":77.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.80784375,"end":82.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.87034375,"end":167.19471875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.482,"end":21.773,"text":"主席各位立院同仁大家好今天在這裡討論公投廢死我覺得很尷尬事實上呢我國沒有廢死一月份也才剛執行死刑歷年來也一直都有判死的案件"},{"start":22.614,"end":30.659,"text":"我们来看看去年的9月,宪判自第8号揭示我国司法最高机关对死刑的见解。"},{"start":52.914,"end":68.106,"text":"那么这就是宪法法庭他尝试努力打开长久以来关于死刑存废不断争执的结然而我们却看到国民党提出的公投他的主文是"},{"start":68.726,"end":87.458,"text":"您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決之政策這個主文內容和廢不廢死到底有何關聯簡單來講根本八幹子打不著叫做文不對題"},{"start":88.579,"end":112.059,"text":"就算通過了也不會產生廢死或不廢死的法律效果那麼它就只有一種效果就是我們可以看到國民黨不斷的想要把他們的手伸入司法的意圖沒有權力分立的概念仗著國會多數為所欲為"},{"start":112.899,"end":140.936,"text":"用民粹来凌驾司法从去年国会上任以来我们大家都可以看到不断的修一些违宪的法案毁宪乱政的意图非常的明显像是国会扩权选罢法的修二还瘫痪宪法法庭甚至在用犯罪行为造假罢免联署书被抓包还要喊说是司法破坏"},{"start":141.996,"end":166.258,"text":"講這些就是告訴大家立法院未來的兩年半一直都會這麼亂與其一起葬送台灣的未來倒不如我們來推倒這個高牆來翻轉這個局勢讓我們就在這一次一起的合力大罷免大成功 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":115,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（15時55分）主席、各位立院同仁，大家好。今天在這裡討論公投廢死，我覺得很尷尬，事實上我國沒有廢死，1月份也才剛執行死刑，歷年來也一直都有判死的案件。我們來看看去年的9月，憲判字第8號揭示我國司法最高機關對死刑的見解，它說死刑是有條件合憲，也就是刑事程序符合最嚴密的正當法律程序下，只適用於犯罪情節最嚴重、程序符合最嚴密、正當法律程序的要求，是可以判處執行死刑的，這就是憲法法庭嘗試努力打開長久以來關於死刑存廢不斷爭執的結。然而，我們卻看到國民黨提出的公投，它的主文是：您是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決之政策。這個主文內容和廢不廢死到底有何關聯？簡單來講，根本八竿子打不著，叫做文不對題，就算通過了，也不會產生廢死或不廢死的法律效果，那麼它就只有一種效果，就是我們可以看到國民黨不斷地想要把他們的手伸入司法的意圖，沒有權力分立的概念，仗著國會多數，為所欲為，用民粹來凌駕司法。","從去年國會上任以來，我們大家都可以看到，不斷地修一些違憲的法案，毀憲亂政的意圖非常地明顯，像是國會擴權、選罷法修惡，還癱瘓憲法法庭，甚至用犯罪行為造假罷免連署書，被抓包還要喊說是司法迫害。講這些就是要告訴大家，立法院未來的兩年半一直都會這麼亂，與其一起葬送臺灣的未來，倒不如我們來推倒這個高牆、翻轉這個局勢，讓我們就在這一次一起合力大罷免、大成功！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝伍委員。","下一位請吳琪銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161499","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161499","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746398c7f1943b5d3f4b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3a11b46a314bfa5925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"15:51:23 - 15:54:49","影片長度":"00:03:26","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:51:23+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:54:49+08:00","duration":206,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.40096875,"end":27.874718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.16159375,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.60409375,"end":37.915343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.337218750000005,"end":40.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.91909375,"end":46.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.690343750000004,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.40284375,"end":94.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.15971875000001,"end":111.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.60846875,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.02971875,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.52721875,"end":130.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.30159375,"end":145.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.86471875,"end":154.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.70721875,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.80909375000002,"end":206.14221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.427,"end":30.843,"text":"主席 各位同仁根據公投法政府沒有的政策就是像現在我們政府根本沒有Face如果提起公投要求政府不要做或是本來有的政策卻要求政府做這個邏輯就是自相矛盾即便通過也沒辦法發生效力"},{"start":31.664,"end":32.124,"text":"這個內容根本是"},{"start":50.475,"end":76.331,"text":"跟支持死刑或者是支持或者是反對廢除死刑完全無關跟這個完全明顯是文不對題那憲法法庭憲判第八號判決認為現階段死刑是合憲的而且在今年一月我們的政府才剛執行死刑因此沒有廢除死刑的問題國民黨提出"},{"start":79.333,"end":93.585,"text":"這一項公投我就想要問你們的公投反方在哪裡用一個虛構的提案來進行政策操作不符合法律不符合民意更加速人民對國民黨的失望"},{"start":94.306,"end":115.14,"text":"那外界有報導說如果兩個公投案真的如此不堪民進黨在怕什麼我要告訴大家這樣的言論是荒謬是可笑的如果我們已經知道這是錯的路為什麼要讓它繼續走下去中選會已經就國民黨的公投案表示"},{"start":116.261,"end":129.278,"text":"過去辦理全國性的公投案經費預估一案公投辦理為例預估至少要9.2億那每增加一案至少要增加1.5億左右"},{"start":131.48,"end":154.05,"text":"國民黨提出來這樣的一個公投根本就是浪費公帑國民黨主張什麼還錢於民那這都是騙人的他們寫幾行字就想隨便的花掉大家十億的辛苦錢這也是為什麼我們要在這裡不厭其煩的登記發言來告訴民眾公投案不合理的地方"},{"start":154.83,"end":183.493,"text":"最後我還要告訴大家透過人民投票來重新決定被告死刑的法院合議庭是否需要一製決已經抵觸憲法法庭的判決縱使這個公投案或者是今天表決通過也僅是浪費公帑浪費社會資源無效的公投那前面講的這個10億不只是白白的花掉"},{"start":184.193,"end":184.213,"text":"謝謝黃委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":109,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（15時51分）主席、各位同仁。根據公投法，針對政府沒有的政策，就像現在我們政府根本沒有廢死，如果提起公投要求政府不要做，或是本來有的政策卻要求政府做，這個邏輯就是自相矛盾，即便通過也沒辦法發生效力。國民黨想透過立法院黨團直接在立法院提案，要人民公投決定各級法院判被告死刑時合議庭法官們要不要意見完全一致，這個內容根本跟支持或反對廢除死刑完全無關，明顯是文不對題！","憲法法庭憲判字第8號判決認為現階段死刑是合憲的，而且在今年1月我們的政府才剛執行死刑，因此沒有廢除死刑的問題。國民黨提出這一項公投，我就想要問，你們的公投反方在哪裡？用一個虛構的提案進行政策操作，不符合法律、不符合民意，更加速人民對國民黨的失望。外界有報導說，如果兩個公投案真的如此不堪，民進黨在怕什麼？我要告訴大家，這樣的言論是荒謬、是可笑的，如果我們已經知道這是錯的路，為什麼要讓它繼續走下去？","中選會已經就國民黨的公投案表示，依過去辦理的全國性公投案進行經費預估，以辦理一案公投為例，預估至少要9.2億，每增加一案至少要增加1.5億左右。國民黨提出這樣的一個公投根本就是浪費公帑，國民黨主張什麼還錢於民，這都是騙人的，他們寫幾行字就想隨便花掉大家10億的辛苦錢，這也是為什麼我們要在這裡不厭其煩地登記發言，告訴民眾公投案不合理的地方。","最後我還要告訴大家，透過人民投票重新決定判處被告死刑的法院合議庭是否需要一致決，已經牴觸憲法法庭的判決，縱使這個公投案或者是今天表決通過，也僅是浪費公帑、浪費社會資源的無效公投，前面講的10億不只是白白地花掉，簡直比丟進水裡還不值。不管公投最後的投票結果是通過或不通過，都不會形成廢除死刑或不廢除死刑的法律效果，國民黨在國會贏了表決，終究還是要面對民意的檢驗，以上。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員。","下一位請伍麗華委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161498","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161498","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7461bcb4dee44778002b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3048316b8811dac4f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"15:48:12 - 15:51:16","影片長度":"00:03:04","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:48:12+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:51:16+08:00","duration":184,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.78471875,"end":34.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.67534375,"end":38.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.34971875,"end":45.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.268468750000004,"end":55.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.313468750000006,"end":56.359718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.815343750000004,"end":64.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.47221875000001,"end":100.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.63534375,"end":129.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.10346875000002,"end":140.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.90346875,"end":161.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.62159375000002,"end":165.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.82784375,"end":167.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.30846875,"end":170.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.12659375,"end":183.09096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.81,"end":33.299,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我們在這裡討論反Face公投說穿了就是大家口中的假議題什麼是假議題呢就是表面上看起來像是在討論公共政策實際上卻是在轉移焦點操弄情緒讓社會陷入對立讓本來應該受到關注的司法改革淹沒在這無止盡的口水與情緒動員中"},{"start":34.999,"end":63.979,"text":"這項公投提案不是在解決問題而是在騙操弄社會情緒也就是騙用假議題包裝政治目的的也是在騙就像罷免連署一樣拿一大堆死亡人口的資料給黨工抄寫充連署抄一份三塊錢這也是騙而且是在踐踏我們民主制度的根本我只想問一句難道這個黨就不能正常一點嗎"},{"start":65.519,"end":92.092,"text":"大家心裡都明白司法制度當然還有很多值得檢討的地方無論是被害人的權益冤案的問題還是司法程序的透明與效率這些才是我們社會真正該花力氣去處理的問題但是很遺憾的我們現在看到的不是改革方向的討論而是一波又一波的情緒操作用公投提案激化社會對立把複雜的司法議題"},{"start":93.132,"end":100.13,"text":"硬生生簡化成一場挺不挺的動員戰這樣的做法對社會真的有幫助嗎"},{"start":101.67,"end":129.337,"text":"公投制度是民主社會的工具沒錯但工具怎麼用決定了它帶來的是進步還是傷害如果它是為了解決社會的分歧讓人民就重大政策做出選擇那是值得肯定的但是如果只是被某些政黨拿來操作聲量煽動情緒那就是在破壞民主很遺憾的這場反廢死公投就是這樣的一個例子一個徹頭徹尾的政治操作"},{"start":130.157,"end":158.95,"text":"大家看看這項公投提案只有對立沒有改革這樣的議題放進公投是要解決問題嗎還是只是為了製造更多的問題換來更多的聲量假議題是遮不住真名義的人民的力量終究會勝出最後我要呼籲我們的社會最不缺的就是這種假議題台灣真正需要的是需要是要有面對問題解決問題而不是永遠只會拿社會的傷痛來炒短線"},{"start":160.33,"end":182.459,"text":"煽動情緒 操弄民意今天的公投提案是在騙罷免連署也是在騙說到底這個政黨的操作方式就跟詐騙集團是沒有兩樣的所以也呼籲我們所有的民眾這樣子的一路騙喔大家不要上當了一起加油 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":103,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（15時48分）主席、各位同仁。今天我們在這裡討論反廢死公投，說穿了就是大家口中的假議題，什麼是假議題呢？就是表面上看起來像是在討論公共政策，實際上卻是在轉移焦點、操弄情緒，讓社會陷入對立，讓本來應該受到關注的司法改革淹沒在這無止境的口水與情緒動員中。這項公投提案不是在解決問題，而是在騙，操弄社會情緒，也就是騙，用假議題包裝政治目的，也是在騙，就像罷免連署一樣，拿一大堆死亡人口的資料給黨工抄寫、衝連署，抄一份3塊錢，這也是騙，而且是在踐踏我們民主制度的根本。我只想問一句，難道這個黨就不能正常一點嗎？","大家心裡都明白，司法制度當然還有很多值得檢討的地方，無論是被害人的權益、冤案的問題，還是司法程序的透明與效率，這些才是我們社會真正該花力氣去處理的問題。但是很遺憾地，我們現在看到的不是改革方向的討論，而是一波又一波的情緒操作，用公投提案激化社會對立，把複雜的司法議題硬生生簡化成一場挺、不挺的動員戰，這樣的作法對社會真的有幫助嗎？","公投制度是民主社會的工具沒錯，但工具怎麼用決定了它帶來的是進步還是傷害。如果它是為了解決社會分歧、讓人民就重大政策做出選擇，那是值得肯定的；但是如果只是被某些政黨拿來操作聲量、煽動情緒，那就是在破壞民主。很遺憾的，這場反廢死公投就是這樣的一個例子，一個徹頭徹尾的政治操作。大家看看這項公投提案只有對立、沒有改革，這樣的議題放進公投是要解決問題嗎？還是只是為了製造更多的問題、換來更多的聲量？假議題是遮不住真民意的，人民的力量終究會勝出！","最後我要呼籲，我們社會最不缺的就是這種假議題，臺灣真正需要的是面對問題、解決問題，而不是永遠只會拿社會的傷痛來炒短線、煽動情緒、操弄民意！今天的公投提案是在騙、罷免連署也是在騙！說到底這個政黨的操作方式就跟詐騙集團沒有兩樣，所以也呼籲我們所有的民眾，這樣子的一路騙大家不要上當了，一起加油，謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。","下一位請黃秀芳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161497","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161497","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746a50ccc42e41dec9ab8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a374277e4527d10aae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"15:44:56 - 15:48:04","影片長度":"00:03:08","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:44:56+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:48:04+08:00","duration":188,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.1359687500000004,"end":3.8615937500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.21596875,"end":14.796593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.26909375,"end":22.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.930343750000002,"end":24.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.86659375,"end":27.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.11096875,"end":29.984093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.50721875,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.88659375,"end":34.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.400968750000004,"end":42.134093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.555968750000005,"end":48.580343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.187843750000006,"end":65.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.23159375,"end":68.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.57721875,"end":72.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.88034375000001,"end":79.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.78221875,"end":91.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.96596875,"end":104.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.68971875000001,"end":107.06909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.49096875000001,"end":108.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.82409375,"end":113.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.71784375,"end":118.37534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.86471875000001,"end":127.65659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.02784375000002,"end":140.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.78534375,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.67034375,"end":148.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.29034375,"end":150.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.02846875,"end":154.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.17971875,"end":187.57971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.168,"end":24.446,"text":"大家好今天我們要嚴正的表達對國民黨提出這個反廢死公投案的疑慮與反對我們都知道台灣目前並沒有廢除死刑根據憲法法庭的判決死刑在特定條件下依然核限政府也依法在執行那麼我就必須要問一句"},{"start":26.059,"end":34.585,"text":"這有什麼好反Face的為什麼會有這個公投案這個公投案又有什麼意義我想大家都心知肚明"},{"start":35.581,"end":52.25,"text":"國民黨的這個公投題目是建立在虛構的前提上是不存在的假議題這不是在解決問題而是在製造對立更是在浪費國家資源以死刑一字決的司法制度設計問題來包裝成反廢死這個公投"},{"start":56.292,"end":80.857,"text":"就是在混淆民眾視聽試圖操作社會的情緒這是極其非常不負責任的做法我們不是害怕公投公投是民主的體現我們也捍衛民主但是我們要提醒大家民主制度本身是需要被保護的"},{"start":81.497,"end":97.404,"text":"我們必須要盡最大的力量來維護如果今天可以為了政黨一己之私來做政治操作提出像這樣一個荒誕的一個題目不存在的題目是不是只要"},{"start":98.224,"end":118.094,"text":"題目聳動可以了撥情緒就能夠綁架社會討論這個我們要深思跟三思各位同仁國會不應該成為散播假議題的起點更不能讓立法的資源被浪費在政治的操作上"},{"start":118.934,"end":139.902,"text":"真正的民主是建立在真實的問題、理性的辯論與制度的信任上,我們要維護民主。最後,我要呼籲國民黨,停止這一場毫無根據的公投鬧劇。如果真的關心司法制度的改革,那就請提出具體的修法。"},{"start":140.882,"end":157.351,"text":"如果真的關心國人的安全就請跟我們一起強化民主的防衛不要用不存在的問題不要用這樣子的假議題來掩飾真正政治操弄的事實"},{"start":158.271,"end":186.529,"text":"也不要用這種不存在的問題來毀憲亂政混淆人民視聽打擊民主的力量台灣的民主我們要真正的來守護請停止這一個公投案請停止這一齣鬧劇請不要做政治操弄請維護台灣社會人民的力量正在監督著你們再一次的來呼籲國民黨三思而後行謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":98,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（15時44分）大家好。今天我們要嚴正表達對國民黨提出這個反廢死公投案的疑慮與反對，我們都知道臺灣目前並沒有廢除死刑，根據憲法法庭的判決，死刑在特定條件下依然合憲，政府也依法在執行，那麼我就必須要問一句，這有什麼好反廢死的？為什麼會有這個公投案，這個公投案又有什麼意義？我想大家都心知肚明，國民黨的這個公投題目是建立在虛構的前提上，是不存在的假議題，這不是在解決問題，而是在製造對立，更是在浪費國家資源，以死刑一致決的司法制度設計問題來包裝成反廢死公投，就是在混淆民眾視聽，試圖操作社會的情緒，這是極其、非常不負責任的作法。我們不是害怕公投，公投是民主的體現，我們也捍衛民主，但是我們要提醒大家，民主制度本身是需要被保護的，我們必須要盡最大的力量來維護。如果今天可以為了政黨的一己之私做政治操作，提出像這樣一個荒誕的題目、不存在的題目，是不是只要題目聳動、可以撩撥情緒，就能夠綁架社會討論？這個我們要深思及三思。","各位同仁，國會不應該成為散播假議題的起點，更不能讓立法資源被浪費在政治操作上，真正的民主是建立在真實的問題、理性的辯論與制度的信任上，我們要維護民主。","最後，我要呼籲國民黨，停止這一場毫無根據的公投鬧劇，如果真的關心司法制度的改革，那就請提出具體的修法；如果真的關心國人的安全，就請跟我們一起強化民主的防衛，不要用不存在的問題，不要用這樣子的假議題掩飾真正進行政治操弄的事實，也不要用這種不存在的問題來毀憲亂政，混淆人民視聽，打擊民主的力量。我們要真正地來守護臺灣的民主，請停止這個公投案，請停止這一齣鬧劇，請不要做政治操弄，請維護臺灣社會，人民的力量正在監督著你們，再一次呼籲國民黨三思而後行，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝何委員。","下一位請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161496","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161496","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74699dbb913f2afa140b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3332e030545e112f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"15:41:21 - 15:44:43","影片長度":"00:03:22","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:41:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:44:43+08:00","duration":202,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.09159375,"end":21.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.30596875,"end":28.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.414718750000002,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.33409375,"end":32.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.78534375,"end":35.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.43034375,"end":38.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.50596875,"end":40.446593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.91909375,"end":42.674093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.06221875,"end":46.369718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.078468750000006,"end":50.774093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.56721875,"end":54.250343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.92534375,"end":61.101593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.62471875000001,"end":85.31721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.68846875,"end":93.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.54784375000001,"end":95.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.56034375,"end":96.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.82596875,"end":101.55096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.88846875,"end":103.82909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.36909375,"end":106.57971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.23784375000001,"end":108.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.17846875000001,"end":121.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.12159375,"end":123.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.72471875000001,"end":128.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.52971875,"end":130.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.66034375,"end":132.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.97221875,"end":138.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.99659375000002,"end":143.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.31221875,"end":149.15534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.71221875,"end":152.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.47971875000002,"end":158.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.31409375,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.81159375000001,"end":162.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.97596875000002,"end":182.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.82096875000002,"end":193.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.36784375000002,"end":200.18534375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.388,"end":46.206,"text":"各位同仁 中国国民党提出反废死公投我们必须先了解这一个必须支出国库7亿新台币的反废死公投是否必要 是否合法人民的权利不管选举罢免公投都是必要的支出但是如果为了政治算计来推动公投花人民的税金这是我们不能接受的"},{"start":47.13,"end":67.019,"text":"反肺死我們必須要先研究死刑還在不在在2009年5月14號當時的馬英九總統宣布簽署兩個國際人權公約其中公民與政治權利公約叫做ICCPR"},{"start":67.939,"end":93.15,"text":"裡面的第六條第一項第二項就是引起廢死爭議相關的議題但是我國法律中的死刑沒有修訂所以當時眾使馬總統簽了這個人權公約但是死刑還在2024年9月20號憲法法庭的憲判制第八號作出釋憲文"},{"start":94.611,"end":120.952,"text":"死刑不違憲要求以更嚴謹的程序來進行死刑判決而在這個釋憲之後2025年1月16號黃林凱被告被執行槍決死刑也就是憲法認定並無違憲死刑還在而這個釋憲文之後也確實執行了死刑的槍決"},{"start":122.253,"end":135.618,"text":"所以死刑還在那現在為什麼有這個反廢死公投因為國民黨的立委怕自己不在死刑還在怕國民黨立委自己不在所以就像今天我們在這邊討論這個議題的時候提案的中國國民黨立委"},{"start":139.039,"end":160.84,"text":"在現場的幾乎只剩下現在只剩兩個通通沒有來開會是這樣的情形自己的提案不上來發言不敢面對然後把這個案子丟出來仗著人他們的席次多數要來執行這個公投花人民的錢來救自己的政治前途"},{"start":161.861,"end":181.628,"text":"我們的公投在公投法第二條第二項明定的公投適用的範圍是法律的覆決、立法原則的創制以及重大政策的創制或覆決。我們死刑還在,難道你要創一個死刑以外的死刑嗎?"},{"start":182.908,"end":199.943,"text":"我們的政策沒有廢除死刑難道你要否決一個沒廢除死刑的釋憲或者相關的這一些既定的政策嗎所以要遏止國民黨這種荒腔走反的亂象只有大罷免大成功才能夠遏止這一切"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":94,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（15時41分）各位同仁，中國國民黨提出反廢死公投，我們必須先了解，這一個必須支出國庫7億新臺幣的反廢死公投是否必要、是否合法，人民的權利不管選舉、罷免、公投，都是必要的支出，但是如果為了政治算計來推動公投，花人民的稅金，這是我們不能接受的。反廢死，我們必須要先研究死刑還在不在，在2009年5月14號，當時的馬英九總統宣布簽署兩個國際人權公約，其中公民與政治權利公約（ICCPR）裡面的第六條第一項、第二項就是引起廢死爭議相關的議題，但是我國法律中的死刑沒有修訂，所以當時縱使馬總統簽了這個人權公約，但是死刑還在。在2024年9月20號，憲法法庭的憲判字第8號做出釋憲文，內容是死刑不違憲，要求以更嚴謹的程序來進行死刑判決。而在這個釋憲之後，2025年1月16號黃麟凱被告被執行槍決死刑，也就是憲法認定並無違憲，死刑還在，而在這個釋憲文之後也確實執行了死刑的槍決，所以死刑還在，那現在為什麼有這個反廢死公投？因為國民黨的立委怕自己不在，死刑還在，怕國民黨立委自己不在。","就像今天我們在這邊討論這個議題的時候，提案的中國國民黨立委在現場的現在只剩兩個，通通沒有來，開會是這樣的情形，自己的提案不上來發言，不敢面對，然後把這個案子丟出來，仗著他們的席次多數，要來執行這個公投，花人民的錢來救自己的政治前途。我們的公投在公投法第二條第二項明定公投適用的範圍是法律的複決、立法原則的創制以及重大政策的創制或複決，我們的死刑還在，難道你要創一個死刑以外的死刑嗎？我們的政策沒有廢除死刑，難道你要否決一個沒廢除死刑的釋憲或者這些相關的既定政策嗎？所以要遏止國民黨這種荒腔走板的亂象，只有大罷免、大成功才能夠遏止這一切。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員。","下一位請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161495","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161495","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746757105532fb6c59bb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a38775ffc34e28c48f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱議瑩","委員發言時間":"15:28:16 - 15:31:13","影片長度":"00:02:57","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:28:16+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:31:13+08:00","duration":177,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7478437500000004,"end":4.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.6334687500000005,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.09659375,"end":26.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.929718750000003,"end":53.440343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.89596875,"end":60.814718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.18596875,"end":79.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.32221875,"end":81.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.09409375,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.63284375,"end":93.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.56471875000001,"end":99.18846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.93096875,"end":102.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.98534375000001,"end":110.61284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.84909375000001,"end":115.84409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.28284375000001,"end":121.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.53096875000001,"end":130.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.26784375,"end":134.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.06471875,"end":139.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.82346875000002,"end":163.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.14034375,"end":173.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.89409375000002,"end":176.25659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.647,"end":22.219,"text":"主席各位委員我們今天要討論的是這一個公投案請大家再認真的看一下這個公投的主文叫做您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑"},{"start":22.979,"end":46.73,"text":"不需一致決之政策我想請教一下各級法院的判決這個怎麼會是一個政策呢這是在2024年憲法法庭第13號判決所確立的原則這個判決主文寫死刑判決作為最嚴厲的國家制裁"},{"start":47.45,"end":63.047,"text":"需建立於法官意見一致的最高程序保障上所以這是憲法法庭作出的判決它不是一個政策但是我覺得非常遺憾的"},{"start":64.568,"end":78.928,"text":"寫這個公投題目 寫這個公投主文的國民黨 民眾黨的幾位主腦竟然都是號稱是法學博士我不知道他們的法律是不是從高位卡車騙去"},{"start":80.37,"end":98.858,"text":"第二我要提出這個公投的主文進入院會討論完全違反了程序正義這個公投主文已經一改二改三改從反廢死一直到現在變成說要反對要"},{"start":99.958,"end":120.744,"text":"同意這個是不是一個政策中華民國的法律沒有廢除死刑所以他們要反廢死原本上就是一個邏輯不通的提案在立法院裡頭沒有經過完整的討論沒有經過完整的協商韓院長在朝野沒有共識之下靜置就將其列案"},{"start":121.624,"end":138.726,"text":"破壞了朝野協商的憲政根本所以沒有程序正義當然也就沒有實質的正義講了這麼多民進黨在今天用我們的論述來表達對這個案子的反對"},{"start":139.887,"end":162.729,"text":"或許接下來的表決我們有可能會輸因為你們總是國民黨民眾黨兩黨總是會用多數暴力來強行表決通過但是我們必須告訴大家程序正義非常重要違反憲法的公投提案根本不能在立法院裡頭通過"},{"start":164.27,"end":175.94,"text":"要阻止國民黨民眾黨持續違法亂政只有一個方法就是大罷免大成功謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":85,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（15時28分）主席、各位委員。我們今天要討論的是這一個公投案，請大家再認真看一下這個公投的主文叫做「您是否『同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」我想請教一下各級法院的判決，這怎麼會是一個「政策」呢？這是在2024年憲法法庭第13號判決所確立的原則，這個判決主文寫到，死刑判決作為最嚴厲的國家制裁，需建立於法官意見一致的最高程序保障上。這是憲法法庭做出的判決，它不是一個政策，但是我覺得非常遺憾，寫這個公投題目、寫這個公投主文的國民黨、民眾黨的幾位主腦，竟然都號稱是法學博士，我不知道他們的法律是不是讀到背後去了？","第二，我要提出，這個公投的主文進入院會討論，完全違反了程序正義，這個公投主文已經一改、二改、三改，從反廢死一直到現在變成說要反對、要同意這是不是一個政策。中華民國的法律沒有廢除死刑，所以他們要反廢死，原本就是一個邏輯不通的提案。在立法院裡頭，沒有經過完整的討論，沒有經過完整的協商，韓院長在朝野沒有共識之下，逕自就將其列案，破壞了朝野協商的憲政根本，所以沒有程序正義，當然也就沒有實質的正義。","講了這麼多，民進黨在今天用我們的論述表達對這個案子的反對，或許接下來的表決我們有可能會輸，因為國民黨、民眾黨兩黨總是會用多數暴力強行表決通過，但是我們必須告訴大家，程序正義非常重要，違反憲法的公投提案根本不能在立法院裡頭通過。要阻止國民黨、民眾黨持續違法亂政只有一個方法，就是大罷免、大成功，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝邱議瑩委員的發言。","報告院會，現在我們休息10分鐘，現在休息。","休息（15時31分）","繼續開會（15時41分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161494","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161494","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746e4d3abb45d07c6abb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a31a06a885b33e9f7b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"15:24:43 - 15:28:05","影片長度":"00:03:22","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:24:43+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:28:05+08:00","duration":202,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.43346875,"end":17.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.12096875,"end":41.205968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.48846875,"end":64.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.69596875,"end":70.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.58534375,"end":77.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.12846875000001,"end":90.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.93659375,"end":93.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.95721875000001,"end":96.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.85971875,"end":104.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.33096875000001,"end":123.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.97784375,"end":130.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.82909375,"end":137.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.46096875,"end":138.55784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.11471875,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.63784375,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.69971875000002,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.55596875,"end":180.35721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.71159375000002,"end":186.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.41096875000002,"end":190.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.30909375000002,"end":198.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.81846875000002,"end":201.29909375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.474,"end":40.544,"text":"主席 各位同仁首先 國民黨的公投主文當中指稱死刑判決憑以自決是一項政策這本身就是天大的錯誤死刑判決憑以虛以自決是憲法法庭作出的憲法判決意旨但就它的本質根本就不是一項政策況且"},{"start":42.557,"end":63.704,"text":"根據憲法訴訟法第38條憲法判決有著拘束各機關及人民之效力這是對全國絕對性的拘束力國民黨刻意在公投主文用政策兩字來形容根本是混淆視聽同時也凸顯了中國國民黨對法律的錯誤理解"},{"start":64.824,"end":89.35,"text":"就連能不能拿來公投的標的都不知道真是徹底的法盲針對死刑判決平易一致決身為立法委員的我們應該要重新檢視作為死刑判決的刑度到底有沒有修法的地方譬如我們是不是要研議國民法官法是不是要與時俱進的修正或者來探討"},{"start":91.05,"end":110.218,"text":"保安監禁制度等等而不是用情緒性民粹性的手段交由公民複決的一個根本不成命題的公投題目我再強調一次立法委員的職責在修法那必須要克遵憲法的"},{"start":111.699,"end":138.413,"text":"那依據憲法法庭的判決來議職修法才是負責任的表現那立法院如果提議要舉行這項公投那其實就是違反憲法上的權利分立以立法權侵害了司法權那我就問國民黨是為憲為上癮了嗎看到國民黨連這種詐欺人民的公投內容都提了出來我們就知道面對大罷免國民黨慌了"},{"start":139.153,"end":165.861,"text":"那事實上對外雖然這個反廢死公投國民黨的公投主人一個字都沒有提到反對廢死那理由很簡單因為台灣根本沒有廢除死刑剛剛很多同仁都有講那國民黨說了一個謊那居然要用全民用納稅錢來用公投辦理公投陪他們大家圓謊那臉皮真的是非常非常的厚宇宙級的惡劣啊"},{"start":166.701,"end":190.104,"text":"那我深深覺得國民黨這一年多來展現到國人面前的樣貌就是無能失職而且狀況外沒有一樣事情做得好那說立法只會搞最高機密版那說監督只會亂刪預算那就連簽連署也只會抄死人名冊那就說搞公投最後也在弄詐騙"},{"start":191.425,"end":200.915,"text":"所以從內容到程序國民黨沒有一出不荒唐那這一屆我看起來不見人悔改所以最後只有一種態度就是大罷免"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":79,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（15時24分）主席、各位同仁。首先，國民黨的公投主文當中指稱死刑判決評議一致決是一項政策，這本身就是天大的錯誤，死刑判決評議須一致決是憲法法庭做出的憲法判決意旨，探究它的本質，根本就不是一項政策。況且，根據憲法訴訟法第三十八條，憲法判決有著拘束各機關及人民之效力，這是對全國絕對性的拘束力。國民黨刻意在公投主文用「政策」兩字來形容，根本是混淆視聽，同時也突顯了中國國民黨對法律的錯誤理解，就連能不能拿來公投的標的都不知道，真是澈底的法盲。","針對死刑判決評議一致決，身為立法委員的我們應該要重新檢視，作為死刑判決的刑度到底有沒有修法的地方，譬如我們要研議國民法官法是不是要與時俱進的修正，或者來探討保安監禁制度等等，而不是用情緒性、民粹性的手段，交由公民複決一個根本不成命題的公投題目。","我再強調一次，立法委員的職責在修法，必須要恪遵憲法的義務，依據憲法法庭的判決意旨修法，這才是負責任的表現。立法院如果提議要舉行這項公投，其實就是違反憲法上的權力分立，以立法權侵害司法權。我就問，國民黨是違憲違上癮了嗎？看到國民黨連這種詐欺人民的公投內容都提的出來，我們就知道，面對大罷免，國民黨慌了。事實上，對外，這個反廢死公投，國民黨的公投主文一個字都沒有提到反對廢死，理由很簡單，因為臺灣根本沒有廢除死刑，剛剛很多同仁都有講，國民黨說了一個謊，居然要全民用納稅錢來辦理公投陪他們大家圓謊，臉皮真的是非常非常厚、宇宙級的惡劣。","我深深覺得，國民黨這一年多來展現到國人面前的樣貌就是無能、失職，而且狀況外，沒有一樣事情做得好，說立法只會搞最高機密版，說監督只會亂刪預算，就連簽連署也只會抄死人名冊，說搞公投最後也只是在弄詐騙，所以從內容到程序，國民黨沒有一處不荒唐，這一屆我看起來不見悔改，所以最後只有一種態度，就是大罷免、大成功。"],["主席：好，謝謝林宜瑾委員的發言。","接下來邱議瑩委員發言完畢之後，我們將會休息10分鐘。請邱議瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161493","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161493","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7469d50c038ac798f75b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3884be6fd1f80153f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許智傑","委員發言時間":"15:21:10 - 15:24:34","影片長度":"00:03:24","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:21:10+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:24:34+08:00","duration":204,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.99409375,"end":20.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.64346875,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.48221875,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.88221875,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.125968750000006,"end":44.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.37409375,"end":49.643468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.048468750000005,"end":51.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.22534375,"end":57.304718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.844718750000006,"end":62.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.56971875000001,"end":86.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.32971875000001,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.97909375,"end":94.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.32846875,"end":96.65721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.12971875000001,"end":106.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.71471875,"end":113.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.00471875000001,"end":118.44284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.57346875,"end":124.48409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.72034375000001,"end":132.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.82034375,"end":147.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.88971875000001,"end":154.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.29784375,"end":161.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.87909375,"end":198.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.43034375000002,"end":199.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.23596875,"end":202.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.34096875,"end":203.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.96534375000002,"end":204.25221875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":20.154,"end":20.835,"text":"主席 大家好"},{"start":22.814,"end":39.35,"text":"剛才已經很多我們的先進提到國民黨這一次的暴力多數想要用這個方法來通過我們的公投案那也很多人提到你要尊重立法權跟司法權的分別"},{"start":40.311,"end":56.783,"text":"那另外呢 這個台灣目前並沒有廢死的問題那國民黨還提到這個主要叫做反廢死公投這個跟1加1等於2 樓上有很多南港高中的同學1加1等於2公投你們覺得適不適當"},{"start":57.904,"end":78.729,"text":"我相信大家都覺得說,這就有答案了就不用說了,又來這裡揮那國民黨現在提的這個公投,就是我們目前並沒有反廢死而他提的是反廢死公投,那跟提1加1等於2不是一樣的道理嗎?真的是笑掉人民大亞那我們來看朱立倫真的是不如盧秀燕、不如江啟臣"},{"start":79.409,"end":92.905,"text":"我們來看,之前盧先生也提過反空汙、反深奧、反核死的公投。當時盧先生提的是經過人民連署,不過當時他的死亡比例是2.43%、2.32%跟2.35%。"},{"start":97.33,"end":117.125,"text":"後來江啟臣當主席的時候,他也提過這個公投案反萊豬公投綁大選,還有重啟核四當時發起人林維周提出的反萊豬死亡比例是0.3%江啟臣提出的公投綁大選死亡比例是0.31%"},{"start":119.802,"end":145.509,"text":"黃士修提的重啟協和式的死亡比例是0.28%所以你可以看到盧先生時代呢其實他這個死亡比例呢2點多%很有可能也不少都是用抄的那我們再來看現在這一次國民黨在罷免我們的綠色的立委的死亡比例呢是4.7%你可以看到為什麼這麼多人就會被辦案然後國民黨還說什麼這個是"},{"start":147.99,"end":163.279,"text":"不符比例原則那我請問各位如果我們再提一個死亡連署偽造文書又不要被偵辦那這個也來當一個公投案這有需要嗎所以國民黨這個動作根本是脫褲子放屁好那我們來看朱立倫"},{"start":164.039,"end":191.696,"text":"朱立倫你今天為什麼不學學盧秀燕為什麼不學學江啟臣你就直接訴諸民意因為你們這個題目呢你知道民意明顯不符那你沒有辦法用透過民意的連署然後這個時候才要用立法院的多數來爭取這個公投案的通過那相對的呢朱立倫如果你在用民意去連署的話恐怕你也會出現報名立委的這個死亡連署的比例過高"},{"start":192.276,"end":200.67,"text":"所以朱棣臉真的是國民黨這一次這個人是很差那我們希望說大家不要讓他們閃避大罷免大成功大家一起來 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":74,"blocks":[["許委員智傑：（15時21分）主席、大家好。剛才已經有很多先進提到，國民黨這一次想要用多數暴力這個方法來通過公投案，也有很多人提到，要尊重立法權跟司法權的分別。另外，臺灣目前並沒有廢死的問題，國民黨還提到這個主要叫做反廢死公投。樓上有很多南港高中的同學，一加一等於二要公投，你們覺得適不適當？我相信大家都覺得已經有答案就不用說了，怎還來這裡吵？國民黨現在提的這個公投就是我們目前並沒有反廢死，而他提的是反廢死公投，跟提一加一等於二不是一樣的道理嗎？真的是笑掉人民的大牙！","我們來看朱立倫真的是不如盧秀燕、不如江啟臣，之前盧秀燕也提過反空污、反深澳、反核食的公投，當時盧秀燕提的提案雖然是經過人民連署，不過當時的死亡比例是2.43%、2.32%跟2.35%。後來江啟臣當主席的時候也提過公投案，包括反萊豬、公投綁大選，還有重啟核四，當時發起人林為洲提出的反萊豬死亡比例是0.3%，江啟臣提出的公投綁大選死亡比例是0.31%，黃士修提的重啟核四死亡比例是0.28%，所以可以看到盧秀燕時代的死亡比例二點多趴，很有可能也有不少都是用抄的。我們再來看，這一次國民黨罷免綠色立委的死亡比例是4.7%，你可以看到為什麼這麼多人會被法辦，國民黨還說不符比例原則。我請問各位，如果我們再提死亡連署、偽造文書要不要被偵辦，也來當一個公投案，有需要嗎？所以國民黨這個動作根本是脫褲子放屁！","我們來看朱立倫，朱立倫今天為什麼不學學盧秀燕、為什麼不學學江啟臣，就直接訴諸民意？因為你知道這個題目明顯不符民意，沒有辦法透過民意連署，所以這個時候才要用立法院的多數來爭取通過這個公投案。相對的，如果朱立倫再用民意去連署，恐怕也會出現罷免綠委死亡連署比例過高的情形，所以朱立倫、國民黨這一次真的很差。我們希望大家不要讓他們閃避。大罷免、大成功！大罷免、大成功！大家一起來。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許智傑委員的發言。","接下來請林宜瑾委員發言。邱議瑩委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161492","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161492","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746b2a22b5f5b0d7702b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a35aed41defc5d99185ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李昆澤","委員發言時間":"15:17:48 - 15:21:02","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:17:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:21:02+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.919718750000001,"end":10.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.20221875,"end":28.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.05596875,"end":31.789718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.27909375,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.252843750000004,"end":40.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.44221875,"end":43.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.53471875,"end":45.205343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.69471875,"end":48.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.57596875,"end":52.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.782218750000006,"end":56.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.697218750000005,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.148468750000006,"end":59.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.02159375,"end":63.430343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.08846875,"end":64.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.01659375,"end":69.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.80909375,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.04909375,"end":77.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.74034375000001,"end":79.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.47846875,"end":82.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.10659375,"end":83.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.16971875,"end":88.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.79346875,"end":89.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.00846875,"end":92.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.26534375,"end":94.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.86846875,"end":96.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.18034375,"end":99.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.40346875,"end":103.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.11596875000001,"end":105.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.43221875,"end":107.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.33471875000001,"end":111.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.55784375,"end":112.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.58721875,"end":113.80221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.15659375000001,"end":116.89034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.49346875,"end":119.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.33284375000001,"end":123.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.35346875,"end":128.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.95596875,"end":134.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.40659375,"end":135.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.35159375,"end":140.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.51096875000002,"end":145.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.01659375,"end":148.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.25659375,"end":150.70784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.17596875,"end":153.74534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.36971875,"end":156.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.30596875,"end":159.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.63471875000002,"end":161.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.43596875,"end":163.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.00534375,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.33409375000002,"end":173.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.21471875,"end":180.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.08721875,"end":184.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.64346875,"end":185.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.92596875,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.86221875,"end":191.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.28346875000003,"end":193.73909375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.943,"end":28.204,"text":"大家好 擔任立委必須遵照人民的託付擔任立委再怎麼瞞他 是不能踐踏民主憲政的原則尤其是要遵從三權分立 基本民主政治的一個基本精神"},{"start":29.125,"end":48.479,"text":"那麼依據憲法第78條 司法院具有解釋憲法 解釋法律以及命令的重要職權根據4至第185號的解釋 大法官所做的憲法解釋"},{"start":49.64,"end":63.211,"text":"具有拘束全国机关各级机关以及全体人民的效力这是宪法明文授权并给予司法院重要的职权"},{"start":64.161,"end":92.212,"text":"另外 釋字第520號也明確的指出利用公投提出創制或者是覆決案這是人民的基本權利但是這個提案既不是創制 也不是覆決因此它根本就不是公投案可以處理的範圍同時 公投是人民的基本權利"},{"start":93.308,"end":115.164,"text":"因此公投提案原則上是應該要由人民來發動雖然立法院也可以提出公投案但前提是不能違反憲法相關權利分立的基本原則尤其是不能干涉其他憲政機關的職權"},{"start":118.544,"end":140.581,"text":"如果立法院忽视自己作为宪政机关应该遵守宪法执行相关职务的职权利用公投案来侵害干预大法官的权利这是严重逾越权力分立底线的违宪行为"},{"start":141.702,"end":161.659,"text":"國民黨委員的法制素養如此低落對憲政原則之無知非常令人遺憾更讓人遺憾的是這個明顯違憲的公投提案竟然是中國國民黨所出手的一個提案這對"},{"start":164.059,"end":191.311,"text":"在過去一直自詡為是中華民國憲法守護者的中國國民黨來說是一個最大的嘲諷將中華民國的憲法基本運作精神踐踏到這種樣子這也有為全國國民基本的附託我們希望中國國民黨回頭思案要遵照憲法的基本精神謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":70,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（15時17分）大家好。擔任立委，必須遵照人民的託付；擔任立委，再怎麼蠻橫，也不能踐踏民主憲政的原則，尤其是要遵從三權分立、基本民主政治的基本精神。依據憲法第七十八條規定，司法院具有解釋憲法、解釋法律以及命令的重要職權。根據釋字第185號解釋，大法官所做的憲法解釋具有拘束全國機關、各級機關以及全體人民的效力，這是憲法明文授權，並給予司法院的重要職權。另外，釋字第520號也明確指出，利用公投提出創制或是複決案，這是人民的基本權利。但是這個提案既不是創制，也不是複決，因此它根本就不是公投案可以處理的範圍。同時，公投是人民的基本權利，因此公投提案原則上應該要由人民發動。雖然立法院也可以提出公投案，但前提是不能違反憲法相關權力分立的基本原則，尤其是不能干涉其他憲政機關的職權。如果立法院忽視自己作為憲政機關應該遵守憲法執行相關職務的職權，利用公投案來侵害、干預大法官的權力，這是嚴重逾越權力分立底線的違憲行為。國民黨委員的法治素養如此低落，對憲政原則之無知，非常令人遺憾。更讓人遺憾的是，這個明顯違憲的公投提案竟然是中國國民黨所出手的，這對過去一直自詡為是中華民國憲法守護者的中國國民黨來說，是最大的嘲諷，將中華民國憲法基本運作的精神踐踏到這種樣子，也有違全國國民基本的付託。我們希望中國國民黨回頭是岸，要遵照憲法的基本精神！"],["主席：謝謝李昆澤委員的發言。","接下來請許智傑委員發言。林宜瑾委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161491","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161491","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7467edfb01359179ebfb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a39f750fbe189a9eba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"15:14:36 - 15:17:27","影片長度":"00:02:51","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:14:36+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:17:27+08:00","duration":171,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.25034375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.87346875,"end":9.278468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.632843750000003,"end":10.290968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.41721875,"end":15.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.707843750000002,"end":16.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.867843750000002,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.977218750000002,"end":24.347843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.406593750000003,"end":27.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.92534375,"end":28.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.01784375,"end":31.688468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.31284375,"end":35.400968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.126593750000005,"end":36.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.11784375,"end":38.877218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.10909375,"end":41.087843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.59409375,"end":42.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.06221875,"end":45.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.774718750000005,"end":47.635343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.07409375,"end":49.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.149718750000005,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.267218750000005,"end":58.384718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.346593750000004,"end":60.696593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.017218750000005,"end":63.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.37971875,"end":65.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.53971875,"end":68.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.35346875,"end":72.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.94784375,"end":73.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.34846875000001,"end":76.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.77409375,"end":79.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.44471875,"end":81.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.41909375,"end":82.53284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.95471875000001,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.46909375,"end":86.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.10596875,"end":88.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.75971875,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.37971875000001,"end":91.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.03346875000001,"end":92.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.11346875000001,"end":94.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.51409375,"end":96.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.56846875000001,"end":98.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.54721875,"end":99.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.09971875000001,"end":101.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.77034375000001,"end":102.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.40721875000001,"end":104.95971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.39846875,"end":107.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.69346875000001,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.03034375,"end":113.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.69659375,"end":117.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.36284375000001,"end":118.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.89846875,"end":119.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.11346875000001,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.96534375,"end":124.29846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.87221875,"end":125.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.00284375000001,"end":127.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.75784375,"end":128.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.95596875,"end":129.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.32284375,"end":131.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.11159375,"end":133.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.74846875,"end":134.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.06471875,"end":135.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.99284375000002,"end":136.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.03909375,"end":137.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.95034375,"end":139.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.27909375000002,"end":141.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.64596875,"end":144.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.85221875000002,"end":145.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.81409375,"end":146.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.01221875000002,"end":147.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.83909375000002,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.06659375,"end":150.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.63596875000002,"end":152.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.07034375,"end":153.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.40346875,"end":155.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.71971875,"end":156.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.71534375000002,"end":157.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.66034375,"end":159.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.02284375000002,"end":161.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.50784375,"end":162.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.34721875,"end":167.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.95409375,"end":169.92846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.913,"end":27.147,"text":"主席 各位同仁今天在野黨提出不是反廢死的公投而是是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一致決的公投案我們台灣的國會與國立沒有正常"},{"start":30.063,"end":58.048,"text":"台灣的國會若不正常要讓台灣人民可以信賴和服從拜託一下拜託一下台灣的國會要正常台灣就要正常進步和發展這個議題與會不會是無關只是象徵立法院正在一步一步地破壞台灣憲政體制災難又企圖保守深進司法體制內"},{"start":59.4,"end":74.649,"text":"當然五款分立,你看到蘇菲律師是平行單位,蘇菲律師大多數做出的憲法解釋以及蘇菲律師的審判制度,是你看到他可以用公道的方式,這位蘇菲律師應該理由去破嗎?"},{"start":77.813,"end":101.999,"text":"在野黨如果對憲法法庭做出的聲言有意見,應該向憲法法庭立案,聲稱在心。我們會在立法院內利用這種提供方式,來修訂憲法法庭對憲法的罪犯的解說款。在野黨也是很多法律專家、憲法學者,"},{"start":103.662,"end":115.088,"text":"你不夠用現代法庭提出中心的審判反正用一個危險軟體的公道給議題來欺騙社會大眾說這是犯費事的公道這議題很清楚的就是要因應本地區會的罷免案所以我在這裡必須要強調台灣到現在沒有負責施行"},{"start":127.799,"end":138.149,"text":"我們要了解,還有重金全國10行的罪名,都必須要破死刑另外,他絕對不能大頭破壞台灣的憲政體制"},{"start":140.322,"end":168.209,"text":"竟不應該把手藏在司法的心肺環境當時在野黨竟敢不可以提出私刑的議題來當作罷免的救命打救命打所以在這裡 經過反對結公投 盡酷判司法獨立 寸步奔流大罷免 大成功 給台灣國會 掛金盡雄好不好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":66,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（15時14分）主席、各位同仁。今天在野黨提出的不是反廢死的公投，而是是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決的公投案。臺灣的國會又不正常了！臺灣的國會如果不正常，要怎麼讓臺灣人民可以信賴跟服從？拜託一下！拜託一下！臺灣的國會要正常，臺灣才有辦法正常的進步跟發展。這個議題與廢不廢死無關，只是象徵了立法院正在一步一步的破壞臺灣憲政體制，在野黨又企圖把手伸進司法體制內。臺灣五權分立，立法院跟司法院是平行單位，司法院大法官做出的憲法解釋及司法院的審判制度，是立法院可以用公投的方式去指揮司法院應該如何去破案嗎？在野黨如果對憲法法庭做出的釋憲有意見，應該向憲法法庭遞件聲請再審，怎麼會在立法院用這種公投的方式來否定憲法法庭對憲法的最高解釋權？在野黨也有很多法律專家、憲法學者，你們不敢向憲法法庭重新提出釋憲，反而用一個毀憲亂政的公投假議題來欺騙社會大眾，說這是反廢死的公投，其實這個意圖很清楚，就是要因應遍地開花的罷免案。","我在這裡必須要強調，臺灣到現在並沒有廢除死刑，據我了解，還有將近犯50項的罪名都必須要判死刑，立法院絕對不能帶頭破壞臺灣的憲政體制，更不應該把手伸進司法的審判權當中，同時，在野黨更加不能拿死刑的議題當作罷免的救命單。所以我在這裡堅決反對假公投、真擴權；司法獨立、寸步不讓；大罷免、大成功！讓臺灣國會趕快正常，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員的發言。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是來自臺北市南港高中的同學們，我們掌聲歡迎他們。","接下來請李昆澤委員發言。許智傑委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161490","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161490","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7469e6b0bb2a7599d66b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3dab1372d823571c45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"15:11:12 - 15:14:29","影片長度":"00:03:17","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:11:12+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:14:29+08:00","duration":197,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.4822187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.41721875,"end":12.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.10909375,"end":13.750343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.459093750000001,"end":15.539093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.33221875,"end":18.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.96471875,"end":19.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.247218750000002,"end":20.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.563468750000002,"end":23.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.01034375,"end":26.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.96346875,"end":28.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.718468750000003,"end":29.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.64221875,"end":32.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.24096875,"end":34.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.63721875,"end":37.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.932218750000004,"end":42.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.095968750000004,"end":44.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.96471875,"end":47.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.837843750000005,"end":49.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.774093750000006,"end":53.625968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.40221875,"end":55.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.422843750000006,"end":58.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.36346875,"end":61.101593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.82721875,"end":65.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.56909375000001,"end":67.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.49721875,"end":68.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.79659375,"end":70.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.73721875000001,"end":72.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.35284375,"end":75.41159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.30596875,"end":82.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.73096875,"end":85.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.16096875000001,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.84846875000001,"end":88.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.28284375000001,"end":90.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.76346875,"end":92.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.45534375000001,"end":94.14284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.58159375000001,"end":97.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.15909375000001,"end":99.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.15034375,"end":108.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.19534375,"end":112.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.68846875000001,"end":121.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.35784375,"end":125.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.46284375,"end":126.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.82971875000001,"end":133.41096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.51221875000002,"end":135.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.17846875,"end":136.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.85346875000002,"end":139.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.65034375000002,"end":142.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.72159375,"end":145.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.43846875,"end":147.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.36221875,"end":149.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.30721875,"end":151.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.82159375,"end":152.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.03659375,"end":153.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.11659375000002,"end":155.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.54659375,"end":160.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.96784375000001,"end":163.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.53284375,"end":165.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.96284375000002,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.05096875,"end":169.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.08034375,"end":170.97471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.97034375,"end":175.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.13846875000002,"end":180.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.06596875000002,"end":186.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.65159375000002,"end":187.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.06909375,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.04784375,"end":190.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.68471875,"end":196.57409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.422,"end":25.427,"text":"主席各位同仁我們今年一月國家才剛執行死刑現在法院依然依法可以判處死刑死刑的制度還沒給人復讀"},{"start":26.994,"end":54.664,"text":"那麼國民黨這個公投 到底是在反對什麼反對一個不存在的東西 反對逃過一天的那根據我們的公投法 我們立法院我們立法院只能針對行政機關的重大政策來進行公投但是死刑啊 這是數萬億你捧的那我國民黨就放政策兩個字 我覺得這要欺騙誰啦"},{"start":57.452,"end":82.45,"text":"判處死刑根據憲法法庭在去年做的大法官的解釋宣判裡面就是說各級法院在判處死刑的時候說話要一致決這不是實質的廢死這是一種對人權還有司法就是雙重啦尤其是對人權的一個保障"},{"start":83.8,"end":101.488,"text":"那這個東西可以拿來公道嗎?用多數決,就來決定死刑的判決嗎?所以,這個所謂的反廢死,這是標準的,國民黨在混淆視聽它要欺騙民眾,讓民眾認為他們在支持國民黨的反廢死公投,就是在支持繼續有死刑"},{"start":109.344,"end":134.923,"text":"其實你認真看 國民黨的公投主文它是像你是否同意各級法院合議庭的法官判處死刑不須一致決的決策它這就是要推翻憲法法庭去年做的第八號判決要判施刑所有的法官 不管你就是幾個範圍法官要一致決那國民黨的公投就是要來改變就是說不需要法官一致決"},{"start":136.963,"end":164.953,"text":"這樣定義就是立法在干涉司法那麼就算這個公投過了啦這也一定是違憲的嘛因為去年的大法官這憲法法庭已經做出裁定了實行必須一致決的判決所以我們這個公投啊 通過啊這是標準的違憲啊因為你要推翻憲法法庭已經做出的裁決憲法的解釋是有一種啦"},{"start":166.641,"end":182.586,"text":"你現在要公道這是要公道什麼?所以這很清楚,國民黨這邊的公道不是在關心司法制度,也不是要對暫行私刑入境的堅持,它是要用死刑議題來動員群眾的情緒,"},{"start":186.924,"end":192.411,"text":"轉移焦點的操作啦,不是在怕肉麵啦大肉麵來啦,我們都會怕死啦現在亂來,這個是亂來"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":62,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（15時11分）主席、各位同仁。今年1月我們國家才剛執行死刑，現在法院依然可以依法判處死刑，死刑的制度也沒有被廢除，國民黨這個公投到底是在反對什麼？反對一個不存在的東西，這反對是頭殼有一個洞！根據公投法，我們立法院只能針對行政機關的重大政策進行公投，但是死刑是司法院在判的，國民黨就放入「政策」2個字，我覺得這是要欺騙社會。要判處死刑，根據憲法法庭去年做的大法官解釋宣判，就是各級法院在判處死刑的時候所有法官要一致決，這不是實質的廢死，這是一種對人權及司法雙重的保障，尤其是對人權的保障，這個東西可以拿來公投嗎？可以用多數決就決定死刑的判決嗎？","所謂的反廢死是標準的國民黨在混淆視聽、欺騙民眾，讓民眾認為如果支持國民黨的反廢死公投，就是在支持繼續有死刑。其實你認真看，國民黨的公投主文是寫「你是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策」，這就是要推翻憲法法庭去年做的第8號判決，要判死刑，不管是哪一級的法院，所有的法官要一致決，而國民黨的公投就是要改變成不需要法官一致決。這樣等於是立法在干涉司法，就算這個公投過了，也一定是違憲的，因為去年的憲法法庭已經做出裁定，死刑必須一致決的判決，所以這個公投如果通過了，這就是標準的違憲，因為你要推翻憲法法庭已經做出的裁決。憲法的解釋只有一種，你現在要公投這個是要公投什麼？所以很清楚，國民黨這次的公投不是在關心司法制度，也不是對贊成死刑立場的堅持，它是要用死刑議題動員群眾的情緒，轉移焦點的操作，因為他們怕罷免，大罷免來了，國民黨會嚇死，現在亂搞，搞出反廢死公投，亂來，真的是亂來！"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員的發言。","接下來請劉建國委員發言。李昆澤委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161489","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161489","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7466cce90905c831d7cb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a3a58ef45d272994b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"15:07:54 - 15:11:05","影片長度":"00:03:11","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:07:54+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:11:05+08:00","duration":191,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.03846875,"end":14.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.109718750000003,"end":9.632843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.442218750000002,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.977843750000002,"end":17.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.63159375,"end":18.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.06596875,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.16284375,"end":21.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.79971875,"end":23.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.347843750000003,"end":27.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.65096875,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.16971875,"end":33.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.74721875,"end":36.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.78471875,"end":38.775968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.53534375,"end":43.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.68659375,"end":44.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.665343750000005,"end":46.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.17971875,"end":48.158468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.563468750000006,"end":52.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.91721875,"end":56.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.13596875,"end":59.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.257843750000006,"end":60.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.20284375000001,"end":63.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.97034375000001,"end":65.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.80971875,"end":67.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.02034375000001,"end":69.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.80909375,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.25596875000001,"end":73.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.50034375,"end":77.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.22971875,"end":82.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.92096875,"end":84.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.82784375,"end":85.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.75596875000001,"end":87.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.83159375000001,"end":88.87784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.78909375,"end":91.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.25284375000001,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.22284375000001,"end":96.92721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.36596875000001,"end":98.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.64409375000001,"end":100.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.85909375,"end":101.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.32721875,"end":103.25534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.71096875,"end":104.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.76971875000001,"end":107.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.04784375000001,"end":110.39346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.56221875000001,"end":111.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.30034375000001,"end":113.14409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.32971875000001,"end":114.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.03409375000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.49784375,"end":118.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.47221875000001,"end":121.75034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.34096875,"end":122.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.02846875,"end":124.68659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.58096875000001,"end":126.42471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.64409375000001,"end":127.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.69034375000001,"end":129.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.37346875,"end":131.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.80784375000002,"end":134.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.31784375,"end":135.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.92534375,"end":140.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.56596875,"end":142.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.02971875,"end":145.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.13471875000002,"end":149.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.53909375,"end":153.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.84659375,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.34846875000002,"end":157.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.03159375,"end":159.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.03971875000002,"end":161.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.17034375,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.40221875,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.49471875,"end":166.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.58721875,"end":169.72596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.06346875,"end":171.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.02096875,"end":172.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.52284375000002,"end":174.56909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.24409375000002,"end":175.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.30721875,"end":176.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.99909375000001,"end":177.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.53471875000002,"end":180.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.42471875,"end":181.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.82534375,"end":184.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.45346875,"end":188.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.65971875000002,"end":191.05596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.075,"end":24.441,"text":"主席 各位鄉親 鄉親 大家好尤其是我們在座的董事 大家好今天講到廣島 我覺得自這次以來 我覺得不知道要做什麼事我們要回到我們的故鄉 自己的心"},{"start":28.72,"end":40.516,"text":"大家都問說 阿輝到底是在開什麼會啦所以在這個規定當中 我覺得是很悲哀在一個國會的地方 他要先這樣"},{"start":43.76,"end":51.082,"text":"今天為了這個公道 我覺得國民黨在這兩個公道雖然是國會已經過去了 會協商的兩檔期但是根本都沒有實際去合作 也沒有討論這樣的提案 是要通阿密啦"},{"start":68.086,"end":78.999,"text":"尤其為了操作議題 藉著聲量 完全沒有說社會的一臉從這次開始 國民黨有很多法案"},{"start":85.135,"end":96.186,"text":"因為要投票的時候 修正的版本都沒出來年齡也沒發過 請大家看清楚這就是國民黨提案的態度 邏輯的水平"},{"start":106.315,"end":122.626,"text":"再說這次的公投 根本是欧北改水 欧北操作國民黨就是要公投和罷免 無法照序不然就是要轉移我們的罷免的壓力而且這個潰石 這個議題大法官早就已經改水了"},{"start":135.316,"end":138.9,"text":"國民黨到現在還要站出來說要講道實在是非常惡質現在又想要指控大法官的解釋這是什麼態度這裡亂七八糟的提案就是要騙百姓、騙民眾"},{"start":160.103,"end":172.729,"text":"我建議國民黨乾脆把這個案子趕快撤回這才是對社會的信任對台灣人民的交代尤其現在就是我們台灣"},{"start":179.005,"end":187.677,"text":"要大罷免、大成功所有的台灣人要看清楚什麼人會不讓台灣人亂殺殺異性"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":56,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（15時8分）主席、各位鄉親，尤其是我們在座的同事，大家好。今天講到公投，我覺得自從這屆以來，我都不知道在當什麼立委，當我回到故鄉──嘉義的時候，大家都在問：「阿惠，你們到底在開什麼會？」在這個過程當中我感到很悲哀，身為國會的立法院竟變成這樣！","今天為了這個公投，我覺得國民黨提出的這兩個公投雖然已經過了一個月的協商冷凍期，卻根本沒實際協商，也沒討論，這樣的提案是要做什麼？尤其是為了操作議題、製造聲量，完全不顧社會責任。從這一屆開始國民黨有很多法案到立委要投票的時候，修正的版本都沒出來，就連字也沒看過。請大家看清楚，這就是國民黨提案的態度，既潦草又隨便。再說到這次的公投，根本就是胡亂解釋、胡亂操作，國民黨就是要把公投和罷免搞在一起，目的就是要轉移罷免的壓力，而且廢死這個議題大法官早就已經解釋完了，國民黨到現在還拿出來說要公投，實在非常惡劣，現在又想要架空大法官的解釋，這是什麼態度？這樣亂搞、亂做的提案，就是只會騙百姓、騙民眾，我建議國民黨乾脆趕快把這個案子撤回，這才是對社會負責任，對臺灣人民交代。","尤其現在我們臺灣要大罷免、大成功，所有的臺灣人要看清楚，什麼人會搞到臺灣人亂七八糟，以上。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員的發言。","接下來請林俊憲委員發言。劉建國委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161488","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161488","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7468cd73ed1d2cf0046b8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a356161e727e47ac5e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"15:04:00 - 15:07:32","影片長度":"00:03:32","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:04:00+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:07:32+08:00","duration":212,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.05409375,"end":33.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.83159375,"end":42.876593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.737218750000004,"end":54.87471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.515968750000006,"end":61.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.135343750000004,"end":65.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.70846875000001,"end":71.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.66534375,"end":72.84659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.30221875000001,"end":75.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.51284375,"end":77.70659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.97659375,"end":86.59971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.07221875,"end":99.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.06596875000001,"end":101.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.12471875,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.08159375000001,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.42659375000001,"end":114.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.56971875,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.04784375,"end":145.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.59034375000002,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.15784375,"end":177.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.58534375000002,"end":182.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.95596875,"end":198.78471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.96471875,"end":208.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.62284375000002,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.40721875000003,"end":212.26784375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.09,"end":42.218,"text":"好 主席各位在場的委員同仁依據憲法所主張的主權在民的一個原則也為了確保我們國民能夠行使直接民權公投保障我們公民參與政治決策的一個權利但是今天我們在這裡討論這個公投案如同前面許多委員所提到的實際上就是一個假議題"},{"start":43.823,"end":60.503,"text":"此時此刻的台灣根本就沒有廢死我們也看到在今年的一月份法務部還在執行這個死刑犯而這個113年憲判制第八號的一個憲法判決"},{"start":61.294,"end":86.267,"text":"所宣告的是死刑為有條件的這個合憲在現行的這個法律框架之下透過嚴謹的一個判決程序台灣依舊保留死刑的一個存在實在想不通國民黨為什麼需要在此時此刻透過立法院來提一個這樣的一個空殼的一個公投"},{"start":87.145,"end":114.506,"text":"那進一步看到公投提案的一個主文寫道您是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不需一字決之政策那從字面上來看並非他們也是反對這個死刑的部分而是在論述上一直提到說這個反廢死那"},{"start":116.738,"end":145.396,"text":"換言之僅僅是要透過這個投票來決定我們各級法院在評議判被告死刑的時候何一庭法官們的一個意見需不需要完全一致基本上與支持或反對廢死毫不相干所以根本不能夠稱作是反廢死的一個公投而且這項公投的一個主文還會抵觸先前這個憲法法庭的一個判決"},{"start":146.838,"end":159.33,"text":"縱使今天在立法院通過了在三個月後也透過公民投票通過了恐怕也只是這個虛耗公帑浪費社會資源的一個無效公投"},{"start":160.219,"end":177.31,"text":"那這次立法院所發起的一個公投案也即將在稍後再次以藍白多數表決通過來破壞司法立法之間的一個權力分立為了只是自己在政治上的一個操作是在刻意誤導台灣人民"},{"start":178.829,"end":197.996,"text":"轉移注目焦點模糊民眾判斷的一個方向我們記憶猶新去年藍白聯手毀憲亂政提出許多的惡法亂三總預算讓行政部門無法正常的運作來癱瘓國家甚至企圖弱化國防對中共的文攻武嚇"},{"start":203.39,"end":203.41,"text":"好,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":51,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（15時4分）主席、各位在場的委員、同仁。依據憲法所主張的主權在民原則，也為了確保我們國民能夠行使直接民權，公投保障我們公民參與政治決策的權利，但是今天我們在這裡討論這個公投案，如同前面許多委員所提到的，實際上就是一個假議題。此時此刻的臺灣根本就沒有廢死，我們也看到在今年的1月份，法務部還在執行死刑犯，而113年憲判字第8號的憲法判決所宣告的是死刑為有條件的合憲。在現行法律框架之下，透過嚴謹的判決程序，臺灣依舊保留死刑的存在，實在想不通國民黨為什麼須要在此時此刻透過立法院提出這樣的空殼公投。","進一步看到公投提案的主文寫到「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」從字面上來看，他們也並非反對死刑，而是在論述上一直提到「反廢死」。換言之，這僅僅是要透過投票決定各級法院在評議判被告死刑的時候，合議庭法官們的意見須不須要完全一致，基本上與支持或反對廢死毫不相干，所以根本就不能夠稱為反廢死的公投，而且這項公投的主文還會牴觸先前憲法法庭的判決。縱使今天這在立法院通過，也在3個月後透過公民投票通過了，恐怕也只是虛耗公帑、浪費社會資源的無效公投。","這次立法院發起的公投案，也即將在稍後再次以藍白多數表決通過，破壞司法、立法之間的權力分立，為的只是自己在政治上的操作，是在刻意誤導臺灣人民，轉移矚目焦點、模糊民眾判斷的方向。我們記憶猶新的是，去年藍白聯手毀憲亂政，提出許多惡法，亂刪總預算讓行政部門無法正常運作以癱瘓國家，甚至企圖弱化國防，對中共的文攻武嚇、滲透卻未能究責，這不禁讓我們感到失望，因此我們堅定地反對這項空殼公投。大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝陳俊宇委員的發言。","報告院會，登記第22號及登記第30號的何欣純委員與王美惠委員對調發言次序。","接下來我們請王美惠委員發言，林俊憲委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161487","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161487","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746d2f3f99dc383ee6db8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a38a5713b642961ecf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"15:00:56 - 15:03:50","影片長度":"00:02:54","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T15:00:56+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:03:50+08:00","duration":174,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.227843750000002,"end":10.172843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.62846875,"end":15.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.910343750000003,"end":17.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.39096875,"end":21.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.62659375,"end":24.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.02284375,"end":37.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.66221875,"end":40.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.93596875,"end":42.674093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.56846875,"end":54.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.27971875,"end":66.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.29471875,"end":74.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.88846875,"end":79.19159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.61346875000001,"end":83.86596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.00096875,"end":88.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.91159375000001,"end":115.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.01284375,"end":122.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.59409375000001,"end":125.96909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.61034375000001,"end":130.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.62659375,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.20409375,"end":136.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.85346875000002,"end":138.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.13159375,"end":145.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.37534375,"end":160.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.06909375,"end":172.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.02534375000002,"end":171.61596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.261,"end":32.886,"text":"各位同仁我反對國民黨提出來的反廢死公投提案因為這是一個假議題第一台灣尚未廢除死刑這是事實我們的刑法仍然保有死刑在113年憲判至第八號判決中大法官明確的表示死刑作為刑罰並不違憲第二"},{"start":35.726,"end":53.977,"text":"该死人当然可以判死但不是乱杀人我们支持罪行相当的原则该死就判死但应限于最严重的个案这包括犯行的残忍性手段跟犯人的心智状况等"},{"start":55.319,"end":83.53,"text":"都須由法院綜合評估慎重來量刑第三死刑判決要非常的嚴謹大法官也清楚指出一二審的時候須由所有合議庭法官一致同意三審必須有延遲辯論偵查偵審過程必須保障辯護權不能對心智明顯不足者判死刑"},{"start":84.41,"end":108.02,"text":"這就是為了防止冤案防止國家濫殺第四法官如果判錯的話全民買單司法不是機器如果法官出錯社會會受害死刑一旦執行沒辦法回頭國民黨卻主張降低判死的標準一審二審兩票三審三票就可定人身死"},{"start":108.58,"end":132.952,"text":"这样的制度你我都能接受吗我们反问一句如果一二审三位法官一致判死三审五位法官也一致判死谁能阻止那个最大二级的人服法呢所以保障程序不是为了保护坏人是为了让我们不要错杀无辜第五这应该是你凭争议的契机"},{"start":134.246,"end":153.608,"text":"不是挑起對立的操作廢死跟反廢死的爭議需要的是更嚴謹的制度更可信的司法程序而不是一直公投票社會對立情緒對撞第六國民黨此舉是在操作社會的撕裂"},{"start":154.549,"end":172.167,"text":"這個提案無助於司法改革只會支持跟反對使行的人們對立讓社會在情緒對立中空轉甚至還把社會成本推給執政黨這不是為台灣好 是政治操弄大罷免 大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":42,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（15時1分）各位同仁，我反對國民黨提出來的反廢死公投提案，因為這是一個假議題。第一、臺灣尚未廢除死刑，這是事實，我們的刑法仍然保有死刑，在113年憲判字第8號判決中，大法官明確表示死刑作為刑罰並不違憲。","第二、該死的人當然可以判死，但不是亂殺人，我們支持罪刑相當的原則，該死就判死，但應限於最嚴重的個案，這包括犯行的殘忍性、手段跟犯人的心智狀況等，都需由法院綜合評估，慎重量刑。","第三、死刑判決要非常的嚴謹。大法官也清楚指出，一、二審的時候需由所有合議庭法官一致同意，三審必須有言詞辯論，偵查、偵審過程必須保障辯護權，不能對心智明顯不足者判死刑，這就是為了防止冤案、防止國家濫殺。","第四、法官如果判錯的話全民買單，司法不是機器，如果法官出錯社會會受害，死刑一旦執行沒辦法回頭，國民黨卻主張降低判死的標準，一審、二審2票，三審3票就可定人生死，這樣的制度你我都能接受嗎？我們反問一句，如果一、二審3位法官一致判死，三審5位法官也一致判死，誰能阻止那個罪大惡極的人伏法呢？所以保障程序不是為了保護壞人，是為了讓我們不要錯殺無辜。","第五、這應該是彌平爭議的契機，不是挑起對立的操作，廢死跟反廢死的爭議需要的是更嚴謹的制度、更可信的司法程序，而不是一紙公投票、社會對立、情緒對撞。","第六、國民黨此舉是在操作社會的撕裂，這個提案無助於司法改革，只會讓支持跟反對死刑的人們對立，讓社會在情緒對立中空轉，甚至還把社會成本推給執政黨，這不是為臺灣好，是政治操弄。","大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員的發言。","接下來我們請陳俊宇委員發言。何欣純委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161486","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161486","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74699ef6d4faed387edb8e2d73ce5d96c5bddbfeff83a0576a33eb26cf665c94cb75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"14:57:31 - 15:00:47","影片長度":"00:03:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:57:31+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T15:00:47+08:00","duration":196,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.29909375,"end":12.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.277843750000002,"end":13.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.77971875,"end":20.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.04034375,"end":22.930343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.80784375,"end":28.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.039093750000003,"end":32.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.696593750000005,"end":41.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.712218750000005,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.922843750000006,"end":50.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.955343750000004,"end":56.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.237218750000004,"end":59.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.734718750000006,"end":61.30409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.67534375,"end":65.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.53971875,"end":66.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.77159375000001,"end":70.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.14221875,"end":84.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.96284375,"end":94.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.54784375000001,"end":94.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.59846875000001,"end":95.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.47159375000001,"end":106.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.47846875,"end":115.42221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.57409375,"end":119.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.84346875000001,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.46471875,"end":152.47971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.13784375,"end":171.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.70034375,"end":184.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.14971875,"end":193.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.53659375,"end":195.32534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.318,"end":40.815,"text":"主席 各位委員從早上來聆聽由吳宗憲等52位立委所提出的這個公投案有幾位委員是如此的定義定義說這個公投案基本上是反對嚴謹判死的公投定義這個公投案是一個反憲法的公投不論是審法會委員的觀點或是審博洋委員的觀點都有其他的定義跟道理存在"},{"start":41.755,"end":56.59,"text":"但是最終大家都非常的清楚其實這一個反廢死也好反嚴謹判死的公投也好它本質上是一個反罷免公投那這反罷免公投背後呢其實真正的原因真的不是法理上的理由"},{"start":57.324,"end":74.305,"text":"法理上的理由大家都非常清楚從法理的內容當中大法官會議所解釋的就等同於憲法的一個規格他反對的不只是這個大法官對這個解釋的內容而已從大法官另一個解釋案520的解釋案當中呢"},{"start":75.026,"end":102.304,"text":"即便是最高行政機關你有參與國家決策的這個權利但你也不能影響這個權利分立的原則也簡單的講今天這個公投案呢這實質的內容違反了大法官會解釋在程序上也違反了大法官會解釋可以說既不合法也不合理一個沒有正當性沒有一個合法性的公投案當中當然引不起人民的共鳴"},{"start":103.004,"end":119.303,"text":"也如同這個公投案當中也引不起藍營的立委的共鳴因為他們本質上就是要反罷免公投他們清楚的知道這一個根本沒有辦法達到反罷免為什麼第一個他會浪費國家的公帑超過十億上"},{"start":119.964,"end":137.618,"text":"第二個他只會饒死動眾到藍營的支持者而沒有辦法達到實質的效果但是我必須跟藍營的朋友說其實不只沒有實質的效果而且有反效果試想這個罷免案從何而來就第一會期的時候違法亂紀擴權的法案強行通過"},{"start":140.64,"end":152.245,"text":"第二個會期的時候又亂立財政收支方法亂砍國家預算跟國家、人民、社會來作對以至於導致整個罷免案如火如荼"},{"start":153.226,"end":170.673,"text":"真正的原因是這樣子可是呢卻又重蹈覆轍推動這個公投案也是在浪費國家的資源浪費人民的這個精力以及浪費整個社會的一個調和的空間這樣的情況底下不是又複製了他原來被罷免的理由嗎"},{"start":171.772,"end":195.083,"text":"也因此呢真正創造國民黨的危機是在於國民黨當初進入這一屆第十一屆立法院的時候由富坤其所主導的總路線的一個失敗跟錯誤以至於後來啊又加上一個無能的黨主席無法化解他的危機才會導致今天的結果所以我可以預祝大罷免一定會大成功祝福國民黨"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":38,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（14時57分）主席、各位委員。從早上聆聽由吳宗憲等52位立委所提出的這個公投案，有幾位委員如此定義，定義這一個公投案基本上是反對嚴謹判死的公投；定義這個公投案是一個反憲法的公投。不論是從沈發惠委員的觀點，或者是沈伯洋委員的觀點，都有其定義跟道理存在，但最終大家都非常清楚，其實這一個反廢死公投也好，反嚴謹判死公投也好，本質上是一個反罷免公投，這個反罷免公投背後真正的原因，真的不是法理上的理由。","法理上的理由大家都非常清楚，從法理內容來講，大法官會議所解釋的就等同於憲法規格，它反對的不只是大法官的解釋內容而已，從大法官另一個解釋案、第520號解釋當中，即便是最高行政機關，有參與國家決策的權力，但也不能影響權力分立原則。簡單講，今天這個公投案，實質內容違反了大法官會議解釋，程序上也違反了大法官會議解釋，可以說既不合法也不合理。一個沒有正當性、沒有合法性的公投案，當然引不起人民的共鳴，就如同這個公投案也引不起藍營立委的共鳴，因為他們本質上就是要反罷免公投，但他們也清楚知道，這根本沒有辦法達到反罷免，為什麼？第一個，它會浪費國家公帑超過10億以上；第二個，它只會勞師動眾到藍營的支持者，而沒有辦法達到實質效果。在此，我必須跟藍營的朋友說，其實不只沒有實質效果，而且會有反效果，試想，罷免案從何而來？第一會期的時候，違法亂紀、擴權的法案強行通過；第二會期時，又亂立財政收支劃分法、亂砍國家預算，跟國家、人民、社會作對，導致整個罷免案如火如荼，真正的原因是這樣子，可是卻又重蹈覆轍推動這個公投案，這也是在浪費國家的資源、浪費人民的精力，以及浪費整個社會的一個調和空間。在這樣的情況底下，不是又複製了他原來被罷免的理由嗎？也因此，真正創造國民黨危機的，是在於國民黨當初進入這一屆──第11屆立法院的時候，由傅崐萁所主導的總路線失敗跟錯誤，後來又加上一個無能的黨主席無法化解他的危機，才會導致今天的結果，所以我可以預祝大罷免一定會大成功，祝福國民黨。"],["主席：謝謝郭國文委員的發言。","接下來我們請林月琴委員發言。陳俊宇委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161485","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161485","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746eb6166ce14c80fbdb8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e8973c3e5e214b715b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭昱晴","委員發言時間":"14:54:06 - 14:57:22","影片長度":"00:03:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:54:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:57:22+08:00","duration":196,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.590343750000002,"end":18.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.26846875,"end":24.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.512218750000002,"end":33.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.94971875,"end":41.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.134093750000005,"end":45.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.33596875,"end":49.407218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.09909375,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.27159375,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.156593750000006,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.33659375,"end":74.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.93909375,"end":77.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.74034375000001,"end":79.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.79909375000001,"end":82.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.08971875,"end":85.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.20721875000001,"end":91.91534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.45534375000001,"end":101.53409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.07409375,"end":120.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.78846875,"end":126.62721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.35284375,"end":131.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.99346875,"end":140.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.19034375,"end":143.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.27846875,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.28221875,"end":158.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.65159375000002,"end":162.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.53284375,"end":171.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.17284375,"end":176.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.53909375,"end":180.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.59346875,"end":183.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.76596875,"end":187.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.79909375000003,"end":190.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.03909375,"end":194.26221875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.638,"end":18.271,"text":"院長以及所有在場的同仁還有電視機前面正在收看直播的朋友"},{"start":19.318,"end":40.838,"text":"死刑在法院合議庭必須一致決是有其憲政跟人權背景死刑是不可逆的一個重刑更需要更高層次的司法跟確信以及共識判處一個人死刑不能只是投票而必須是整體的司法價值的共同承擔"},{"start":42.199,"end":59.393,"text":"再次的強調台灣實質上並沒有廢除死刑而實質上法律仍然保有死刑然而藍白呢針對廢死的這個議題惡意的想要綁著所有的公投在政治上其實具有非常明確的一個目的啦"},{"start":60.234,"end":85.447,"text":"其實就是想要藉由主張讓人民來決定死刑的存廢塑造自己好像跟平民百姓站在一起或者是想要維繫他們所謂的維持社會安全的一個形象刻意是要來聚焦媒體跟民間的一個注意討好迎合反廢死的一個民意說穿了就是怕被罷免"},{"start":87.267,"end":112.589,"text":"此行的議題不但涉及人權、司法制度跟憲法的價值更應該要透過專業的辯論而不是情緒的勒索動員為主的用公投的方式歐洲人權法院它說了人權保障不應交付多數決其實就是擔心對特定犯罪的情緒反應而非理性的判斷"},{"start":113.53,"end":142.828,"text":"死刑的存廢本來就不應該成為政黨操作的民粹的武器再次的強調目前我們的法律條文死刑仍然存在特殊的案件仍然有判死死刑的一個判決雖然台灣死刑的執行門檻極高也需要在合議庭當中的法官全體同意一致才能夠判決死刑"},{"start":144.332,"end":162.243,"text":"但是目前光台灣的刑法還有刑事訴訟法仍然保留死刑作為最高的刑罰有60多項的犯罪行為最重是可以判處死刑在這裡我真的是要建議藍白的委員"},{"start":163.824,"end":179.925,"text":"與其你們現在在搞這種詐騙空殼的公投還不如好好的去檢討為什麼罷綠委的過程當中是這麼的荒腔走板連署的錯誤率是這麼的高"},{"start":180.686,"end":194.162,"text":"死人連署也這麼的多被司法調查還要去違法去包圍北檢那我只能說大罷免大成功不適任的立委被罷免掉剛好而已"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":33,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（14時54分）院長以及所有在場的同仁，還有電視機前面正在收看直播的朋友。死刑在法院合議庭必須一致決有其憲政跟人權背景，死刑是不可逆的一個重刑，更需要更高層次的司法確信以及共識。判處一個人死刑不能只是投票，而必須是整體司法價值共同承擔。再次強調，臺灣實質上並沒有廢除死刑，而實質上法律仍然保有死刑，然而藍白針對廢死的議題，惡意的想要綁著所有的公投，在政治上其實具有非常明確的目的，就是想要藉由主張讓人民決定死刑的存廢，塑造自己好像跟平民百姓站在一起，或者是想要維繫他們所謂的維持社會安全的形象，刻意聚焦媒體跟民間的注意，討好、迎合反廢死的民意，說穿了就是怕被罷免。","死刑的議題，不但涉及人權、司法制度跟憲法價值，更應該透過專業的辯論，而不是用情緒勒索、動員為主的公投方式。歐洲人權法院說了：人權保障不應交付多數決。其實就是擔心對特定犯罪的情緒反應，而有非理性的判斷，死刑的存廢本來就不應該成為政黨操作的民粹武器。","再次強調，目前我們的法律條文，死刑仍然存在，特殊的案件仍然有判處死刑的判決，雖然臺灣死刑的執行門檻極高，也需要合議庭法官全體一致同意，才能夠判決死刑，但是目前光臺灣的刑法還有刑事訴訟法仍然保留死刑作為最高刑罰，有六十多項的犯罪行為最重可以判處死刑，在這裡，我真的要建議藍白的委員，與其你們現在在搞這種詐騙、空殼的公投，還不如好好的去檢討為什麼罷綠委的過程當中是這麼的荒腔走板、連署的錯誤率是這麼的高、死人連署也這麼的多，被司法調查，還要違法包圍北檢，那我只能說大罷免、大成功，不適任的立委被罷免掉剛好而已。"],["主席：謝謝郭昱晴委員發言。","接下來請郭國文委員發言，林月琴委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161484","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161484","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746774fa47dacd3c164b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e8956ee6e04b9c1f51b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"14:50:32 - 14:53:58","影片長度":"00:03:26","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:50:32+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:53:58+08:00","duration":206,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.759718750000001,"end":9.329093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.191593750000003,"end":27.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.53721875,"end":29.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.730968750000002,"end":35.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.603468750000005,"end":37.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.830968750000004,"end":44.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.80034375,"end":46.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.791593750000004,"end":47.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.55096875,"end":50.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.87096875,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.59221875,"end":55.617218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.174093750000004,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.979093750000004,"end":66.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.66596875,"end":68.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.10034375000001,"end":69.72471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.60221875,"end":72.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.43721875,"end":75.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.52534375,"end":77.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.56721875000001,"end":79.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.49534375,"end":81.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.34721875000001,"end":95.39159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.10034375000001,"end":101.51721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.39471875000001,"end":105.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.83721875,"end":106.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.06909375000001,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.33471875000001,"end":108.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.76909375000001,"end":119.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":121.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.54784375000001,"end":122.20596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.79659375000001,"end":123.50534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.71596875,"end":134.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.94659375,"end":139.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.94159375,"end":140.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.35909375,"end":155.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.20909375000002,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.69284375,"end":166.87409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.43096875,"end":168.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.87784375,"end":175.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.06659375,"end":180.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.71159375000002,"end":185.33534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.95971875,"end":187.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.13659375,"end":189.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.19534375,"end":191.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.30909375000002,"end":205.78784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.072,"end":8.454,"text":"張宏祿委員請發言"},{"start":25.713,"end":50.186,"text":"各位委員同仁我們今天在討論這一個公投的問題我想一個問題我們要先知道在依大法官的解釋台灣現在是沒有廢除死刑的而且大法官他的解釋非常的明確在台灣死刑還是合乎情理"},{"start":51.874,"end":75.334,"text":"他只是對要不要判處死刑他的嚴謹度提高而已要法官一致同意我認為這個是非常適合台灣現在既有的民情啊想想以前國民黨政府剛來台灣的時候那時候的228事件"},{"start":76.564,"end":103.78,"text":"很多人就這樣不見了也沒有透過審判也沒有透過什麼那在國民黨執政的時候戒嚴期間也有很多人就犯了所有的戒嚴條款然後受到不公平的審判甚至屈打成招也被判死刑所以現在台灣的實際情況就是死刑還是存在只是比較嚴謹的去判決"},{"start":105.942,"end":123.272,"text":"所以今天這個本位委員有提出的這個是你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決製政策我覺得很奇怪也很矛盾為什麼呢"},{"start":125.765,"end":154.639,"text":"如果你對判處法官對判處你對法官對於這判處行要不要一致決其實這個不是政策的問題這個其實也是可以透過修法去要求說要去怎麼解決但一個不是政策的問題你要人民來創制復決來做一個公投我覺得這基本上是很多委員說的違憲那另外我個人的看法是這樣子是不對的"},{"start":156.257,"end":179.694,"text":"你不管你立法院的名義再強大你也不可以把手伸到司法院去你要去影響法官的判決我們很擔心啊如果未來有任何人對法官的判決有任何爭議他是不是也透過公投的手段來做我認為對於審判流程"},{"start":180.768,"end":205.507,"text":"根本不是政策的決定審判的流程不可以拿來當成公投的一個標的我覺得其其不以為然所以我覺得今天這個案子啊大家要在審慎的思考而不是為了某種利益某種的政治手段而去公投我勸大家要三思"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":30,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（14時50分）各位委員同仁。我們今天在討論這一個公投的問題，我想這一個問題，我們要先知道依大法官的解釋，臺灣現在是沒有廢除死刑的，而且大法官的解釋非常的明確，在臺灣死刑還是合乎情理，他只是對要不要判處死刑的嚴謹度提高而已，要法官一致同意，我認為這非常適合臺灣現在既有的民情。想想以前國民黨政府剛來臺灣的時候，那時候的二二八事件，很多人就這樣不見了，也沒有透過審判，也沒有透過什麼，在國民黨執政的時候，戒嚴期間也有很多人就犯了所謂的戒嚴條款，然後受到不公平的審判，甚至屈打成招，也被判死刑。現在臺灣的實際情況就是死刑還是存在，只是比較嚴謹的去判決。今天本院委員提出的是「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」我覺得很奇怪也很矛盾，為什麼呢？法官判處死刑要不要一致決，其實這個不是政策的問題，這個其實也是可以透過修法要求要怎麼解決，但一個不是政策的問題，你要人民創制、複決來做一個公投，我覺得這基本上是很多委員說的違憲。另外，我個人的看法是這樣子是不對的，不管立法院的民意再強大，你也不可以把手伸到司法院，去影響法官的判決。我們很擔心，如果未來有任何人對法官的判決有任何爭議，他是不是也可以透過公投的手段來做？我認為審判流程根本不是政策的決定，審判的流程不可以拿來當成公投的標的，我期期不以為然，所以我覺得今天這個案子，大家要再審慎的思考，而不是為了某種利益、某種政治手段而去公投，我勸大家要三思。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸委員的發言，謝謝。","接下來請郭昱晴委員發言。郭國文委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161483","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161483","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74663e7f1e1b9092a04b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e89e7f4644ce7aaae0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"14:47:14 - 14:50:23","影片長度":"00:03:09","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:47:14+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:50:23+08:00","duration":189,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.61159375,"end":39.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.400343750000005,"end":41.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.37471875,"end":52.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.44471875,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.36284375,"end":99.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.96471875,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.95971875000001,"end":132.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.46596875,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.23346875000001,"end":136.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.17409375,"end":162.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.29659375,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.49034375000002,"end":166.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.16096875000002,"end":168.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.08471875,"end":172.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.83096875,"end":174.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.82221875000002,"end":180.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.55971875,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.33159375000002,"end":183.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.01909375000002,"end":185.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.99346875,"end":188.22096875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.47,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":11.06,"end":38.991,"text":"謝謝主席各位同仁我想從去年這一屆的任期開始我想在立法院什麼無奇不有的事都會發生遺憾的是國民黨跟民眾黨的委員藉由國會改革這樣的荒謬的情勢一連串做出一些很令人匪夷所思的事情我想不只我們民進黨的委員覺得難以理解"},{"start":39.531,"end":62.88,"text":"甚至我們在跑行程的時候,我們很多鄉親都說,到底他們是在創作什麼?是要把台灣毀掉嗎?這真的很恐慌。我想今天他們提出這樣的一個詐騙公投,更是離譜。蔡英文總統執政的期間,法務部分別在2018年的8月跟2020年的4月,分別執行了兩名死囚的一個死刑。"},{"start":63.513,"end":91.182,"text":"那賴總統上任之後今年1月法務部也針對這個黃姓死囚也執行了一個死刑代表我們現在是這個相關的程序都有在進行當中那更離譜的是國民黨還針對這樣子賴總統執行死刑還特別感謝他還給司法正義跟這個受害者公道但是現在用這個詐騙公投來愚弄鄉親愚弄百姓非常非常的離譜"},{"start":92.082,"end":98.979,"text":"我們要求堅持判決實行的程序要有嚴謹的一個審判也必須要有一個周延的處理"},{"start":100.083,"end":125.84,"text":"但是在這樣的過程裡面我們發現國民黨前後矛盾甚至不符合相關的一個程序我想我們現有的一個法律框架依然可以判決並且執行死刑所以我們台灣根本不存在這樣一個廢死的一個議題國民黨透過這樣的公投只是在找到一個虛構的提案想要化解現在大罷免的危機"},{"start":126.52,"end":154.8,"text":"甚至是浪費我們所有納稅人的錢來政治一個不當的一個政治操作那遺憾的是現在大法官現在的國民黨逢大法官必反只要是大法官做出的決議都反對甚至嚴重利用這個立法院的多數暴力干預我們行政立法司法的一個監督機制制衡的一個機制我想令人非常的遺憾如果國民黨民眾黨"},{"start":156.662,"end":179.902,"text":"這樣子執迷不悟那將來迎來民意的一個反撲我想國民黨的委員最近一直喊話說公投不是洪水猛獸叫大家不要害怕那我這邊也要很勇敢的呼籲我們的國民黨跟民眾黨的委員罷免也不是洪水猛獸而是民意真正要解決在野黨野蠻失衡的一個解方"},{"start":180.603,"end":188.081,"text":"大罷免大成功我想我們台灣民意也會勇敢的直球對決要三政不失任的國民黨立委"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":24,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（14時47分）謝謝主席、各位同仁。從去年這一屆的任期開始，在立法院什麼無奇不有的事情都會發生，遺憾的是國民黨跟民眾黨的委員藉由國會改革這樣一個荒謬的情勢，一連串地做出一些很令人匪夷所思的事情，我想不只我們民進黨的委員覺得難以理解，甚至我們在跑行程的時候，很多鄉親都說：他們到底是在搞什麼？是要把臺灣毀掉嗎？真的是很可惡！","我想，今天他們提出這樣的詐騙公投更是離譜！蔡英文總統執政期間，法務部分別在2018年8月跟2020年4月執行了兩名死囚的死刑，賴總統上任之後，今年1月法務部也針對黃姓死囚執行死刑，代表我們現在相關的程序都有在進行當中。更離譜的是，國民黨還針對賴總統執行死刑，特別感謝他還給司法正義跟受害者公道，但是現在又用這樣的詐騙公投來愚弄鄉親、愚弄百姓，非常、非常的離譜！我們要求、堅持判決死刑的程序要有嚴謹的審判，也必須要有周延的處理，但是在這樣的過程裡面，我們發現國民黨前後矛盾，甚至不符合相關的程序。","我們現有的法律框架依然可以判決並且執行死刑，所以我們臺灣根本不存在廢死的議題。國民黨透過這樣的公投，只是在找一個虛構的提案，想要化解現在大罷免的危機，甚至是浪費我們所有納稅人的錢，是一個不當的政治操作。令人遺憾的是，現在的國民黨逢大法官必反，只要是大法官做出的決議，他們都反對，甚至嚴重利用立法院的多數暴力干預行政、立法、司法的監督制衡機制，令人非常遺憾。如果國民黨、民眾黨這樣執迷不悟，將迎來民意的反撲。","國民黨的委員最近一直喊話，說「公投不是洪水猛獸」，叫大家不要害怕。我也要很勇敢的呼籲國民黨跟民眾黨的委員，罷免也不是洪水猛獸，而是民意真正要解決在野黨野蠻失衡的一個解方，大罷免、大成功！我想我們臺灣民意也會勇敢的直球對決，要三振不適任的國民黨立委。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員的發言。","接下來，請張宏陸委員發言。郭昱晴委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161482","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161482","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7469decb9eaa7e5f23fb8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e8974277e4527d10aae5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"14:43:47 - 14:47:06","影片長度":"00:03:19","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:43:47+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:47:06+08:00","duration":199,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.746593750000002,"end":15.184718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.285968750000002,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.58721875,"end":44.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.42909375,"end":46.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.90971875,"end":50.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.010343750000004,"end":55.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.971593750000004,"end":60.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.30409375000001,"end":67.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.49721875,"end":72.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.86346875000001,"end":76.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.96409375,"end":86.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.95409375,"end":115.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.69221875000001,"end":116.09721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.63721875,"end":119.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.59034375,"end":120.68721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.36221875000001,"end":125.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.42909375,"end":130.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.84596875,"end":131.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.01034375,"end":135.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.63846875000002,"end":145.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.06721875,"end":155.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.46659375000002,"end":165.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.64221875,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.46471875,"end":169.35471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.65846875,"end":172.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.96596875,"end":183.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.88409375,"end":195.17346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.7,"end":29.376,"text":"謝謝主席還有所有立法院同仁的確根據公投法立法院是有為重大政策的創設跟覆決的權利有提出公投的必要者就經過立法院院會的同意通過之後交由中選會來辦理公投"},{"start":31.738,"end":50.429,"text":"但是呢,重大政策的這個創制呢,是說你政府呢,這個沒有了政策,那我們經由公投的程序呢,希望政府來制定的這個政策,這是從無到有的一個過程。那重大政策的覆決呢,就是說政府呢,它已經實施通過了一個重大的一個政策,"},{"start":51.149,"end":74.085,"text":"然後立法院要求政府予以廢止利用公投的這個程序所以這個創制是從無到有 複決就是說有把它變到無那如果現在要求說這個政府沒有的政策你要提起一個公投 那要求政府不要做或是說本來已經有的政策 透過公投要求政府要來做這不是毛疾是很"},{"start":75.686,"end":95.773,"text":"這個邏輯是非常的矛盾那但是呢現在國民黨的這兩個公投包含這個反Face的公投 反J的公投就是這麼邏輯 矛盾 錯誤擺出的一個公投嘛然後呢 現在有沒有死刑那大家都知道 現在還是有死刑那只是說死刑呢 需要這個各級法院呢這個何一庭呢 一致性的判決"},{"start":97.173,"end":120.43,"text":"這個是憲法這個憲法法庭的憲判制第八號的一個判決的意思結果呢看到這個國民黨的今天的這個提案說你是否同意各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不需一字決好啦就算今天的這個公投的結果過了過了那也就是說好那不需要一字決那請問一下"},{"start":121.451,"end":137.763,"text":"死刑有沒有廢除 沒有這跟反廢死一點關係都沒有那所以說國民黨提了一個反廢死但它的內容完全跟反廢死一點關係都沒有更何況這個是大法官憲法法庭的這個判決它的效力等同於憲法"},{"start":138.283,"end":154.872,"text":"那結果呢今天國民黨想要用一個公投來凌駕在憲法法庭的判決意旨之上這根本就是莫名其妙嘛所以國民黨的立委大家就覺得說反正我都能夠利用修這個憲訴把你們憲法法庭給廢掉了"},{"start":155.572,"end":171.386,"text":"我要利用這個公投把這個憲法法庭所解釋出來的判決例子把它廢除掉或是凌駕在上面好像也無所謂但是最重要的是說這本來這兩個公投提出來的原因就是要來遏止這個大罷免"},{"start":173.307,"end":194.664,"text":"希望說能夠利用在8月23號投票的時候能夠跟罷免綁在一起但是現在呢這個只剩下國民黨的這個罷免呢有可能在7月7月中旬上旬呢就有可能會投票了跟這個8月的公投一點關係都沒有所以我看國民黨這兩個公投是越來越無力了你看沒有一個國民黨的立委在這邊"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":18,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（14時43分）謝謝主席，以及所有立法院同仁。的確根據公投法，立法院有為重大政策之創制跟複決的權利，有提出公投必要者，經過立法院院會同意通過之後，交由中選會辦理公投。但重大政策的創制是說政府沒有的政策，我們經由公投程序希望政府來制定這個政策，這是從無到有的一個過程。重大政策的複決就是政府已經實施、通過了一個重大政策，然後立法院要求政府予以廢止、利用公投的程序。所以創制是從無到有，複決就是從有變無。如果現在要求政府沒有的政策你要提起一個公投，要求政府不要做，或是說本來已經有的政策，透過公投要求政府要來做，這個邏輯是非常矛盾的！但是現在國民黨的這兩個公投，包含反廢死的公投和反戒嚴的公投就是這麼邏輯矛盾、錯誤百出的公投嘛！","現在有沒有死刑？大家都知道，現在還是有死刑，只是死刑需要各級法院合議庭一致性的判決，這是憲法法庭憲判字第8號的判決意旨。結果國民黨今天的提案說：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」好啦，就算今天這個公投的結果過了，也就是說不需要一致決，那請問一下：死刑有沒有廢除？沒有啊！這跟反廢死一點關係都沒有。所以國民黨提了一個反廢死公投的提案，但它的內容跟反廢死一點關係都沒有！更何況這個是大法官憲法法庭的判決，它的效力等同於憲法，結果今天國民黨想用一個公投來凌駕在憲法法庭的判決意旨之上，這根本就是莫名其妙嘛！","所以，國民黨的立委大概是覺得：反正我都能夠利用修憲訴法把你們憲法法庭給廢掉了，我要利用這個公投，把這個憲法法庭所解釋出來的判決意旨廢除掉，或者是凌駕在它上面，好像也無所謂。","但最重要的是，本來這兩個公投提出來的原因就是要來遏止大罷免，希望在8月23日投票的時候能夠跟罷免綁在一起，但是現在國民黨的罷免有可能在7月中上旬就投票了，跟8月的公投一點關係都沒有，所以我看國民黨這兩個公投是越來越無力了。你看，沒有一個國民黨的立委在這邊，可見根本就沒有在關心他們的公投啦！"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的發言。","接下來請徐富癸委員發言，張宏陸委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161481","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161481","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746ce2487cb8e7c5896b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e8941d823e46ab58e485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"14:40:30 - 14:43:39","影片長度":"00:03:09","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:40:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:43:39+08:00","duration":189,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.54034375,"end":11.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.24846875,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.34346875,"end":36.970343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.25721875,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.53971875,"end":46.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.34846875,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.52971875,"end":53.001593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.81159375,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.82409375,"end":62.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.805968750000005,"end":71.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.10409375,"end":82.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.87034375,"end":87.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.62471875,"end":92.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.50596875000001,"end":96.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.16346875,"end":119.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.29909375000001,"end":133.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.79909375,"end":141.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.38846875000002,"end":146.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.99534375000002,"end":147.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.82221875000002,"end":150.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.56846875000002,"end":157.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.33971875,"end":160.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.18721875,"end":165.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.57034375,"end":167.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.76846875,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.46034375000002,"end":171.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.70034375,"end":174.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.48471875,"end":176.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.04971875,"end":188.25471875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.54,"end":36.676,"text":"各位立委同仁以及我們線上看直播的公民朋友我在此堅決的反對這項公投提案因為這根本是一個被硬拗出來的假議題這是一個假議題為什麼我這麼說呢我們從三點來說明第一件事情陳如許多委員都一直一再的強調台灣現在就有死刑而且法院也會判所以這項提案根本不是"},{"start":37.336,"end":51.566,"text":"要不要死刑而是國民黨在搞政治操作他們拿一個這麼嚴肅牽涉人命的一個司法議題來轉移焦點只是因為自己害怕被罷免就想操作死刑議題來自保"},{"start":53.854,"end":81.899,"text":"第二个这项公投真正的内容是要把法院判死刑的一致决改为多数决让杀一个人变得更容易但是我要问大家一件事情如果三个法官里面有一个人是怀疑的但还是被迫依循多数决的决议去判死刑这样是可以被接受的吗错杀一个人就是永远回不来的"},{"start":82.979,"end":102.955,"text":"司法的尊嚴和我們的良心能夠承擔得起這樣的錯誤嗎難道這就是國民黨對人命的一個態度嗎第三 國民黨說民意有七成五支持死刑就把它變成一個通行證了但是我要跟大家講 正義不是看聲量"},{"start":104.056,"end":119.005,"text":"正義不是看聲量台灣是一個法治的國家法律的存在就是要保護那些可能有一點可能是無辜的人如果連法官自己都不能夠取得共識的時候國家怎麼能夠放心的去執行死刑呢"},{"start":120.356,"end":141.082,"text":"最可惡的事情這個議題原本應該是要理性的充分的好好的來討論因為這是一條活生生的人命可是國民黨卻把它拿來當作一個政治提款機國民黨不是真的在乎我們的司法制度也不是真的在乎民眾的一個安全而是在製造對立"},{"start":142.441,"end":165.203,"text":"掩蓋自己的無能掩蓋自己怕被罷免的焦慮他們只是因為害怕就把人民的生命拿來賭我們不能夠接受這樣子的一個操作我們不能夠讓真正重要的司法議題呢變成國民黨政治算計的犧牲品我堅決反對這樣子的一個公投我們絕對不可以為了討好"},{"start":166.598,"end":188.036,"text":"民粹讓台灣犧牲了正義跟法治有一句話是這麼說的我也要呼籲大家怕什麼就來什麼所以既然國民黨現在這麼怕罷免那就請大家把握最後機會還有一些區域還在連署當中就請大家成全他們大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":12,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（14時40分）各位立委同仁，以及線上看直播的公民朋友。我在此堅決反對這項公投提案，因為這根本是一個被硬拗出來的假議題，這是一個假議題，為什麼我這麼說？我們從三點來說明：第一件事情，誠如許多委員都一再強調，臺灣現在就有死刑，而且法院也會判，所以這項提案根本不是要不要死刑，而是國民黨在搞政治操作，他們拿這麼嚴肅、牽涉人命的一個司法議題來轉移焦點，只是因為自己害怕被罷免，就想操作死刑議題自保。","第二個，這項公投真正的內容是要把法院判死刑的一致決改為多數決，讓殺一個人變得更容易。我要問大家一件事情，如果3個法官裡面有一個人是懷疑的，但還是被迫依循多數決的決議去判死刑，這樣是可以被接受的嗎？錯殺一個人是永遠回不來的，司法的尊嚴和我們的良心能夠承擔得起這樣的錯誤嗎？難道這就是國民黨對人命的態度嗎？","第三，國民黨說民意有七成五支持死刑，就把它變成一個通行證了，但我要跟大家講，正義不是看聲量，臺灣是一個法治國家，法律的存在就是要保護那些可能有一點無辜的人，如果連法官自己都不能夠取得共識的時候，國家怎麼能夠放心執行死刑？最可惡的事情，這個議題原本應該要理性、充分、好好地討論，因為這是一條活生生的人命，可是國民黨卻把它拿來當作政治提款機！國民黨不是真的在乎我們的司法制度，也不是真的在乎民眾安全，而是在製造對立，掩蓋自己的無能、掩蓋自己怕被罷免的焦慮，他們只是因為害怕就把人民的生命拿來賭。我們不能夠接受這樣子的操作，我們不能夠讓真正重要的司法議題變成國民黨政治算計的犧牲品。我堅決反對這樣子的一個公投，我們絕對不可以為了討好民粹而讓臺灣犧牲了正義跟法治。","有一句話是這麼說的，我也要呼籲大家，怕什麼就來什麼！既然國民黨現在這麼怕罷免，那就請大家把握最後的機會，有一些區域還在連署當中，就請大家成全他們，大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員的發言。","接下來我們請李坤城委員發言。徐富癸委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161480","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161480","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7463704a881a365aac7b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e89b165d9c3a9e3ea845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"14:37:15 - 14:40:20","影片長度":"00:03:05","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:37:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:40:20+08:00","duration":185,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.11471875,"end":5.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.856593750000002,"end":183.54659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.144,"end":29.638,"text":"抱歉抱歉主席 各位委員在野黨一直在說大法官的憲法判決讓台灣實質廢死但事實上台灣並沒有廢除死刑在今年1月16號才執行的一個死刑犯所以這是個假議題包括連今天的提案吳宗憲委員的裡面自己也提到了今年1月16才剛執行了一個死刑"},{"start":30.498,"end":55.487,"text":"那所以說但是藍白為什麼在這個時間點要發起這樣的公投他明顯是具有政治目的他試圖要影響民團所發起的大罷免但是司法不是民粹的一個附庸法律也不應該迎合這樣的一個表演我們堅持憲政的體制應該受到尊重司法的獨立必須要捍衛國民黨這個公投提案真正的目的其實是在干擾大罷免的進行"},{"start":56.247,"end":65.296,"text":"然後國民黨現在仍然不願意面對大罷免真正的原因大罷免真正的原因是過去這一年半來藍白兩黨迴憲亂政從國會擴權法案當連人民"},{"start":71.561,"end":99.799,"text":"不到立法院來你都可以強制每個人一次罰十萬罰到他來為止這明顯的擴權違憲但是藍白執意表決通過而通過了之後大法官會議判定違憲之後然後藍白再聯手把大法官會議給癱瘓掉讓憲法法庭整個癱瘓掉然後也強行修財政收入劃分法把3753億的財源拿走拿去怎麼使用也不講清楚"},{"start":100.859,"end":116.269,"text":"這些都引發了民怒包括在審查總預算的時候用最短的時間半小時內提出了四張的黑箱最高版本然後強行的表決通過連表決內容是什麼怎麼算都不清楚也都不知道狀況下就被表決通過"},{"start":117.089,"end":143.592,"text":"這就是去年一整年的國會亂象人民的不滿而這也是導致民團發起大罷免的真正原因而國民黨藍白不思去解決面對這些大罷免的真正原因而試圖採用公投來干擾罷免的進行我們認為是不會成功的如果國民黨不反省持續來做這些動作包括現在為了要反制這個民團發起的罷免還推動了自己的一個罷免結果"},{"start":145.053,"end":160.864,"text":"要這樣推動罷免卻又不好好的連署不認真連署然後呢抄黨員名冊抄到了許多死亡連署造假連署偽造文書的問題甚至於有許多的黨工被收押現在還有可能形成是一個組織性的犯罪"},{"start":161.344,"end":182.902,"text":"朱立倫恐怕也深陷其中我們認為這都是國民黨不認錯不改過不面對問題的根本原因所以我們要再次呼籲藍白兩黨不要想要玩弄公投如果不正是大罷免的原因的話想要透過公投來干擾大罷免的進行這是不會有成效的我們反對這樣假議題的一個公投大罷免大成功謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":9,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（14時37分）主席、各位委員。在野黨一直在說大法官的憲法判決讓臺灣實質廢死，但事實上臺灣並沒有廢除死刑，在今年1月16號才執行了一個死刑犯，所以這是個假議題，包括今天的提案，吳宗憲委員自己也在裡面提到了今年1月16日才剛執行了一個死刑。但是藍、白為什麼要在這個時間點發起這樣的公投？明顯是具有政治目的，他們試圖要影響民團所發起的大罷免，但是司法不是民粹的附庸，法律也不應該迎合這樣的表演，我們堅持憲政體制應該受到尊重，司法的獨立必須要捍衛，國民黨這個公投提案真正的目的其實是在干擾大罷免的進行，因為國民黨到現在為止仍然不願意面對大罷免真正的原因。大罷免真正的原因是，過去這一年半來藍、白兩黨毀憲亂政，從國會擴權法案，當人民不到立法院來，你都可以強制每個人一次罰10萬，罰到他來為止，這明顯的擴權違憲，但是藍、白執意表決通過，通過了之後，大法官會議判定違憲之後，藍、白再聯手把大法官會議給癱瘓掉，讓憲法法庭整個癱瘓掉；然後強行修財政收支劃分法，把3,753億的財源拿走，拿去怎麼使用也不講清楚，這些都引發了民怒；包括在審查總預算的時候，用最短的時間在半小時內提出了4張的黑箱最高版本，強行表決通過，連表決內容是什麼、怎麼算都不清楚，就被表決通過。這就是去年一整年的國會亂象，人民的不滿，這也是導致民團發起大罷免的真正原因。國民黨藍、白不思去解決、面對大罷免的真正原因，卻試圖採用公投來干擾罷免的進行，我們認為是不會成功的，如果國民黨不反省，持續來做這些動作，包括現在為了要反制民團發起的罷免，還推動了自己的罷免，結果要推動罷免，卻又不好好連署，不認真連署，然後抄黨員名冊，抄到了許多死亡連署、造假連署、偽造文書的問題，甚至於有許多的黨工被收押，現在還有可能形成組織性的犯罪，朱立倫恐怕也深陷其中，我們認為這都是國民黨不認錯、不改過、不面對問題的根本原因。所以我們要再次呼籲藍、白兩黨不要想玩弄公投，如果不正視大罷免原因的話，想要透過公投來干擾大罷免的進行，這是不會有成效的，我們反對這樣假議題的一個公投。大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝賴瑞隆委員的發言。","接下來我們請張雅琳委員發言。李坤城委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161479","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161479","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746b7dcc9c305128601b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e89fefbc25bed5bb6755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"14:33:46 - 14:37:03","影片長度":"00:03:17","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:33:46+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:37:03+08:00","duration":197,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.16596875,"end":0.5372187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.97596875,"end":1.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.80284375,"end":3.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.52409375,"end":5.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.14346875,"end":10.240343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.657843750000001,"end":14.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.914718750000002,"end":16.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.90596875,"end":17.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.72846875,"end":21.141593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.664718750000002,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.726593750000003,"end":32.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.36346875,"end":33.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.73034375,"end":35.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.51471875,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.235968750000005,"end":39.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.55221875,"end":42.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.674093750000004,"end":43.838468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.59784375,"end":46.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.095343750000005,"end":48.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.01909375,"end":49.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.09909375,"end":50.909093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.38159375,"end":52.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.96784375,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.72284375,"end":56.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.74784375,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.40159375,"end":61.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.73846875,"end":63.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.24034375000001,"end":65.47221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.43409375,"end":67.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.27346875,"end":69.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.91034375000001,"end":71.10846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.46284375,"end":73.89284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.44971875,"end":76.25534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.31846875000001,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.78659375000001,"end":80.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.45284375,"end":82.78596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.98409375,"end":85.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.21596875,"end":85.90784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.41409375,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.57846875,"end":88.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.54034375,"end":89.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.97471875000001,"end":93.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.17659375000001,"end":95.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.35346875,"end":98.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.82971875000001,"end":101.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.05721875,"end":104.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.79096875,"end":108.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.87471875000001,"end":111.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.67159375000001,"end":119.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.07971875000001,"end":126.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.13346875,"end":128.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.75346875,"end":131.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.07346875000002,"end":134.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.38971875000001,"end":135.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.48221875000002,"end":138.15284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.49034375000002,"end":139.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.07659375,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.28721875000002,"end":143.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.08846875,"end":159.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.17471875,"end":161.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.72284375,"end":168.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.08471875,"end":170.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.85659375,"end":174.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.97409375,"end":181.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.74096875,"end":185.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.87534375,"end":194.95409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.17,"end":17.562,"text":"賴瑞龍委員請準備非常抱歉賴委員非常非常抱歉謝謝我從這27年到今天在這裡我無法"},{"start":19.066,"end":47.953,"text":"來解釋也無法來跟大家來報告說我們現在如何去反一個根本不存在的東西說要反廢死請問台灣廢死了嗎說要反廢死請問我們有把我們的死刑把它修法把它廢止掉了嗎完全沒有"},{"start":49.076,"end":73.694,"text":"我不知道國民黨用這樣的議題做政治操作在混淆視聽尤其這一次的公投是由立法院發動立法院知法玩法把一個完全就不存在的一個事實居然說我們要來反請問要怎麼反"},{"start":77.386,"end":98.775,"text":"尤其國民黨只不過說在政治操弄在處理我們固定在雙我們的整個公投的一個投票當中就是在今年八月的最後一個禮拜第四個禮拜"},{"start":99.878,"end":110.473,"text":"就在這樣的一個前提之下為了公投而公投因為關鍵就是5月25號如果5月25號我們沒有辦法"},{"start":112.731,"end":131.363,"text":"在立法院把他送出那麼國民黨的軌跡就沒有辦法執行了逼著我們在今天在下個禮拜要趕快把這樣子不存在的一個公投要反的公投要把他送出"},{"start":133.137,"end":160.843,"text":"我都覺得身為立法委員身為立法機關今天在這裡我覺得無奈又可笑而且這個無奈又可笑是因為國民黨在做政治操作在欺騙人民他用一個大法官憲法法庭所做的一個事件就說我們實質廢死"},{"start":162.783,"end":180.797,"text":"根本就是在欺騙人民的情感 嘲弄人民的情感我要告訴國民黨 到目前為止 台灣沒有廢死到目前為止 我們沒有修法去處理任何一條廢死的條例"},{"start":181.898,"end":194.705,"text":"所以拜託國民黨不要再操弄人民內心的感觸也不要讓我們以為國民黨真的已經跟我們所有的法背離太遠了"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":6,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（14時33分）謝謝。我從政27年，到今天在這裡，我無法解釋，也無法跟大家報告我們現在如何去反一個根本不存在的東西，說要反廢死，請問臺灣廢死了嗎？說要反廢死，請問我們有把死刑規定修法廢止掉了嗎？完全沒有！我不知道國民黨用這樣的議題做政治操作，在混淆視聽，尤其這一次的公投是由立法院發動，立法院知法玩法，針對一個完全就不存在的一個事實，居然說我們要來反，請問要怎麼反？尤其國民黨只不過在政治操弄，公投投票的時間是在今年8月的最後一個禮拜，第四個禮拜，就在這樣的前提之下，為了公投而公投，關鍵就是5月25號，如果5月25號我們沒有辦法從立法院把它送出，那麼國民黨的詭計就沒有辦法執行了，逼著我們要在下個禮拜趕快把這樣不存在的一個公投、要反的公投送出。我都覺得身為立法委員，作為立法機關，今天在這裡無奈又可笑，這個無奈又可笑是因為國民黨在做政治操作、在欺騙人民，他們用大法官、憲法法庭所做的釋憲，說我們是實質廢死，根本就是在欺騙人民的情感、操弄人民的情感。我要告訴國民黨，到目前為止，臺灣沒有廢死，到目前為止，我們沒有修法去處理任何一條廢死的條例，所以拜託國民黨不要再操弄人民內心的感觸，也不要讓我們以為國民黨真的已經跟所有的法背離太遠了。"],["主席：謝謝陳亭妃委員。","接下來請賴瑞隆委員發言。對不起，賴委員，我剛剛記成莊瑞雄委員了，對不起。張雅琳委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161478","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161478","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746938d26562e2196a2b8e2d73ce5d96c5b042849b9113b1e8914c0753048fa81f95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"14:30:21 - 14:33:37","影片長度":"00:03:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T14:30:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T14:33:37+08:00","duration":196,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.06471875,"end":0.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.379093750000003,"end":15.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.52221875,"end":36.666593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.81846875,"end":38.252843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.674718750000004,"end":44.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.59784375,"end":48.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.900968750000004,"end":51.752843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.92159375,"end":63.548468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.05471875,"end":72.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.21784375,"end":90.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.76784375000001,"end":101.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.15846875000001,"end":140.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.07221875000002,"end":147.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.85596875000002,"end":154.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.67346875,"end":157.17096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.49159375000002,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.00034375,"end":195.67971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.67,"end":37.199,"text":"謝謝主席與大院同仁國民黨所提的公投它的題目是是否同意各級法院判處死刑不需要一致的公投其實這樣的公投題目說穿了就是一個操弄民意混淆視聽的文字遊戲就如同今天上午民進黨多位委員發言所說的它就是一個詐騙公投造假公投為什麼會這麼說呢"},{"start":38.88,"end":63.293,"text":"國民黨現在是立法院的多數搭配了民眾黨之後全國國人都非常清楚只要透過修法沒有國民黨過不了的但是為什麼他們不透過修法呢那就是因為如果國民黨真的要廢死台灣真的以他們要反廢死台灣真的就是已經廢死形同存在的時候他們隨便修一個法令就可以啦"},{"start":64.133,"end":89.559,"text":"但是就是因為沒有法令可以修台灣實質上的就是目前的法令就是還可以判處死刑啊就是因為這樣所以國民黨現在反過來用了一個充滿了文字遊戲的公投國民黨的司馬昭之心就是想要透過公投來反罷免詭計被揭穿了現在乾脆就來跟大家玩起公投的文字遊戲"},{"start":90.819,"end":117.16,"text":"但是這些東西他們自己能講清楚嗎他們不能講清楚就創造一個假公投而在這個假公投的過程當中其實就是只是怕被罷免可是說穿了公投過去國民黨都至少會拿到街上跟大家來做連署可是這一陣子以來從國民黨要發起罷免民進黨的立委就可以看到充斥著造假連署跟死人連署"},{"start":118.121,"end":136.017,"text":"時間在往前推盧秀燕台中市長盧秀燕當年所提出來的反公屋空投根據中選會的數據在49萬多人當中不符合被剔除的高達18萬2848人也就是說不合格率高達36.8%所以國民黨怕了"},{"start":141.261,"end":161.633,"text":"國民黨不敢把公投的連署的題目拿到街上接受民眾的檢驗所以就選擇在今天用壓霸的方式要用國會多數的方式直接霸凌壓霸過關這樣一個假公投這樣一個不存在的公投"},{"start":162.453,"end":190.518,"text":"國民黨因為害怕再度出現死人連署所以乾脆使用多數暴力但是人民的眼睛是雪亮的不管國民黨現在是文學素養太差還是國民黨決定用公投的方式要來霸凌在憲法法庭之上只要你玩文字遊戲這些民眾都會一眼看穿這都是一個憲政鬧劇也是一個政治鬧劇終結鬧劇只有一個方法那就是"},{"start":191.179,"end":195.473,"text":"大罷免大成功罷免這些只想用多數霸凌的國民黨立委"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（14時30分）謝謝主席與大院同仁。國民黨所提的公投題目是「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」，其實這樣的公投題目說穿了就是一個操弄民意、混淆視聽的文字遊戲，就如同今天上午民進黨多位委員發言所說的，它就是一個詐騙公投、造假公投！為什麼會這麼說呢？國民黨現在是立法院的多數，搭配了民眾黨之後，全國國人都非常清楚，只要透過修法，沒有國民黨過不了的，但是為什麼他們不透過修法呢？那就是因為如果國民黨真的要廢死，以他們要反廢死的立場，臺灣真的就已經是廢死形同存在的時候，他們隨便修一個法令就可以了啊，但就是因為沒有法令可以修，臺灣實質上的、目前的法令就是還可以判處死刑啊！就是因為這樣，所以國民黨現在反過來用一個充滿文字遊戲的公投，國民黨的司馬昭之心，就是想要透過公投來反罷免，詭計被揭穿了，現在乾脆就來跟大家玩起公投的文字遊戲，但是這些東西他們自己能講清楚嗎？他們不能講清楚，就創造一個假公投，而在這個假公投的過程當中，其實就只是怕被罷免。可是說穿了，公投，過去國民黨至少都會拿到街上跟大家來做連署，可是這一陣子以來，從國民黨要發起罷免民進黨立委就可以看到，充斥著造假連署跟死人連署。","時間再往前推，臺中市長盧秀燕當年提出來的反空污公投，根據中選會的數據，在四十九萬多人當中，不符合、被踢除的高達18萬2,848人，也就是說，不合格率高達36.8%。所以國民黨怕了，國民黨不敢把公投的連署題目拿到街上接受民眾的檢驗，所以就選擇在今天用「鴨霸」的方式，要用國會多數的方式直接霸凌、「鴨霸」過關。這樣一個假公投、這樣一個不存在的公投，國民黨因為害怕再度出現死人連署，所以乾脆使用多數暴力。但是人民的眼睛是雪亮的，不管國民黨現在是文學素養太差，還是國民黨決定用公投的方式要來霸凌在憲法法庭之上，只要你玩文字遊戲，民眾都會一眼看穿，這都是一個憲政鬧劇，也是一個政治鬧劇，終結鬧劇只有一個方法，那就是大罷免、大成功！罷免這些只想用多數霸凌的國民黨立委！"],["主席：好，謝謝林楚茵委員的發言。","接下來請陳亭妃委員發言，莊瑞隆委員請準備。更正：賴瑞隆委員請準備，非常抱歉，賴委員，非常非常抱歉。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":100,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","沈伯洋","王義川","黃捷","李柏毅","陳培瑜","蘇巧慧","沈發惠","吳思瑤","林楚茵","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","張雅琳","李坤城","徐富癸","張宏陸","郭昱晴","郭國文","林月琴","陳俊宇","王美惠","林俊憲","劉建國","李昆澤","許智傑","林宜瑾","邱議瑩","王定宇","何欣純","陳瑩","黃秀芳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","羅美玲","陳素月","王正旭","陳秀寳","范雲","吳秉叡","賴惠員","邱志偉","陳昭姿","張啓楷","吳宗憲","羅智強","牛煦庭","賴士葆","徐巧芯","洪孟楷","林淑芬","林岱樺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":64,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002","1144801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須\n一致決』之政策？」請公決案─通過─","agenda_id":"1144801_00004"}}},{"id":"161477","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161477","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7461f702d850d75a6b7b8e2d73ce5d96c5b62e7e08914747559504fb69bf61eef5a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:59:12 - 12:02:20","影片長度":"00:03:08","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:59:12+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T12:02:20+08:00","duration":188,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.52409375,"end":6.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.03846875,"end":12.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.602843750000002,"end":13.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.68284375,"end":27.149093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.80721875,"end":28.785968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.12346875,"end":46.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.28096875,"end":48.158468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.681593750000005,"end":60.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.979093750000004,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.99971875,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.15034375,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.60096875,"end":81.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.79034375,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.13971875,"end":99.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.84659375000001,"end":104.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.47034375000001,"end":115.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.50221875000001,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.52721875,"end":120.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.00346875000001,"end":126.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.54284375,"end":131.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.72346875,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.70534375,"end":145.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.98284375,"end":161.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.58784375000002,"end":165.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.87846875000002,"end":168.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.57846875,"end":188.59221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.787,"end":26.879,"text":"主席各位同仁大家辛苦了我想來舉幾個例子大家來看看這樣的題目能不能夠作為公投的題目第一題請問你是否同意台灣各政黨的負責人不應當率眾違法包圍司法機關不應當發動民粹來鬥臭司法公然妨礙司法公正"},{"start":27.879,"end":44.073,"text":"再來一題,請問你是否同意各個政黨應當具備正確的人權意識以及正確的史觀,不應當誤用濫用納粹等獨裁威權的符號,消費他國的歷史事件,嚴重損及台灣國際形象?"},{"start":47.338,"end":60.566,"text":"最後一題請問你是否同意國會議長應當謹言慎行不宜發表歧視性的言論物化女性傷害國會形象"},{"start":62.028,"end":76.694,"text":"我舉了三個簡單的題目這樣的建議案如果納為公投的題目即使它再有社會正當性依舊不能夠成為公投議案的標的為什麼"},{"start":78.675,"end":97.903,"text":"很清楚的公投法的規定任何的提案需要來具備法的明確性更重要的是公投法所規範立委所發動的公投最基本的法定要件就是要符合政策的創制或覆決"},{"start":99.924,"end":120.771,"text":"我剛剛舉的三個例子 社會都很有共感但是因為它並不符合公投法的重大政策的創自及覆決所以立委不能拿來成為公投的題目所以同理可證 台灣沒有廢死"},{"start":122.042,"end":138.484,"text":"大法官的宣告死刑是合憲的在野黨的委員到底是法盲還是文盲我更要說舉辦一次公投要花費的經費至少是9億起跳"},{"start":139.758,"end":161.426,"text":"每增加一個議題就要再新增1.5億的公帑如果議題是合理正當而且合法當花則花但拿不存在的議題來做政治操作這就是浪費公帑耗費社會的資源"},{"start":162.806,"end":186.661,"text":"國民黨民眾黨提的兩個公投文不對題語焉不詳公投綁罷免就是因為他們怕罷免我要再一次說不要拿珍貴的憲法賦權來當政黨的遮羞布不要拿神聖的公民投票來當國民黨怕罷免的救生圈民進黨反對這樣的公投"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1465,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時59分）主席、各位同仁，大家辛苦了。我想來舉幾個例子，大家來看看這樣的題目能不能夠作為公投的題目。第一題，請問你是否同意臺灣各政黨的負責人不應當率眾違法包圍司法機關，不應當發動民粹來鬥臭司法，公然妨礙司法公正。再來一題，請問你是否同意各個政黨應當具備正確的人權意識以及正確的史觀，不應當誤用、濫用納粹等獨裁威權的符號，消費他國的歷史事件，嚴重損及臺灣國際形象。最後一題，請問你是否同意國會議長應當謹言慎行，不宜發表歧視性的言論，物化女性，傷害國會形象？我舉了三個簡單的題目，這樣的建議案如果納為公投的題目，即使它再有社會正當性，依舊不能夠成為公投議案的標的，為什麼？很清楚的，公投法規定任何的提案需要具備法的明確性，更重要的是，公投法規範立委發動公投的最基本法定要件，就是要符合政策的創制或複決。我剛剛舉的三個例子，社會都很有共感，但是因為它並不符合公投法重大政策的創制及複決，所以立委不能拿來成為公投的題目。","同理可證，臺灣沒有廢死，大法官宣告死刑是合憲的，在野黨的委員到底是法盲還是文盲？我更要說，舉辦一次公投要花費的經費至少是9億起跳，每增加一個議題，就要再新增1.5億的公帑，如果議題是合理、正當，而且合法，當花則花，但拿不存在的議題來做政治操作，這就是浪費公帑、耗費社會的資源。國民黨、民眾黨提的兩個公投，文不對題，語焉不詳，公投綁罷免就是因為他們怕罷免。我要再說一次，不要拿珍貴的憲法賦權來當政黨的遮羞布，不要拿神聖的公民投票來當國民黨怕罷免的救生圈。民進黨反對這樣的公投。"],["主席：好，謝謝吳思瑤委員的發言。","報告院會，我們上午的會議進行到此為止，下午2點30分繼續開會，進行後續廣泛討論的委員發言。","我們現在休息。","休息（12時2分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161476","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161476","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7465bf12b767eb573efb8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fbb511bb2ed4d6bdc55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"11:55:34 - 11:58:55","影片長度":"00:03:21","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:55:34+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:58:55+08:00","duration":201,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.189093750000001,"end":15.353468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.48409375,"end":16.973468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.66534375,"end":19.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.56784375,"end":22.879718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.58846875,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.90846875,"end":30.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.76034375,"end":32.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.22409375,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.829718750000005,"end":47.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.41159375,"end":50.588468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.195968750000006,"end":52.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.018468750000004,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.06909375,"end":54.284093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.85784375,"end":56.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.119093750000005,"end":57.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.17784375,"end":62.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.109718750000006,"end":64.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.45534375,"end":65.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.41721875,"end":67.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.00346875000001,"end":68.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.15096875,"end":70.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.12534375,"end":73.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.69034375000001,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.58471875000001,"end":78.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.95534375000001,"end":81.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.75659375000001,"end":86.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.61221875000001,"end":89.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.00846875,"end":90.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.93659375,"end":102.76596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.67721875000001,"end":107.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.09409375000001,"end":113.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.19034375000001,"end":116.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.44721875,"end":118.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.78034375000001,"end":120.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.40034375,"end":121.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.99909375000001,"end":125.32784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.23909375000001,"end":127.50471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.09534375,"end":129.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.28909375,"end":131.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.40284375000002,"end":132.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.76971875,"end":136.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.95471875,"end":138.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.13159375,"end":143.24909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.70471875,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.53159375,"end":146.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.56909375,"end":151.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.66971875000002,"end":153.67784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.84659375,"end":162.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.89159375,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.32534375,"end":169.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.92846875,"end":172.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.35409375,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.32409375,"end":180.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.07846875,"end":184.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.16659375,"end":190.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.46534375000002,"end":195.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.08471875,"end":199.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.68721875,"end":201.97409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.196,"end":26.806,"text":"主席各位同仁今天我要在這裡首先要告訴大家請大家不要再講反廢死公投了因為國民黨所提出來的公投案並不是反廢死公投"},{"start":27.93,"end":44.479,"text":"他們一開始他們號稱要提出反廢死公投結果被整個社會輿論績效說現在都沒有死刑也沒有相關廢死的法案在立法院你提這個反廢死公投就跟提說要禁止外星人跟台灣人結婚一樣它是一個平行時空完全不存在的議題"},{"start":45.968,"end":66.839,"text":"結果被笑了之後他們就趕快改他們在一直趕快改什麼他們現在沒有說要反廢死了他們現在說反對這個死刑判決應該要一致決這個是大法官會這個是這個憲法法庭憲判第八號所做出的解釋但他們也知道這個"},{"start":69.218,"end":86.195,"text":"所以這個不是反被死公投這個應該我們怎麼樣定義它就是國民黨反對嚴謹的判決死刑的公投國民黨反對說判死刑要嚴謹他們認為可以輕率的判死刑這就是國民黨這個公投案的真正主張"},{"start":87.682,"end":116.263,"text":"所以我們也可以提出 它可以提出說反對這個法院一定要一次決裁判死刑那我們也可以提出一個說那我們這個是否贊成 你是否贊成三個法官裡面只要有一個說要判死刑 就可以判死刑我們也可以提出說只要媒體報導有人贊成判死刑 這個人就判死刑這是你針對判死刑的嚴謹與否 它的程序國民黨要進行公投這就是它意思上面最荒謬的地方"},{"start":117.486,"end":128.981,"text":"第二個就是他的這個公投主文他的公投主文說根據公投法第二條第二項他們提出這個公投案而且他們也知道"},{"start":130.316,"end":146.583,"text":"他們也知道說這個大法官這個憲法法院判決是不能拿來公投的所以他們在後面偷加了兩個字說你是否贊成這個政策他們加了政策兩個字為什麼就是因為公投法裡面有提到"},{"start":147.623,"end":168.87,"text":"第二條第二項提到說能夠作為公投的這個課題只有第一法律案的覆決這顯然不是法律案的覆決第二立法原則的創制這個也不是立法原則的創制所以他們只好用第三款這是什麼重大政策的創制覆決所以他再加了政策兩個字但是各位"},{"start":170.383,"end":198.88,"text":"這個死刑判決必須要這個法院法官一致決這個不是政策耶這個是憲法法院的判決這是與憲法同等效力的所以他們不管在議址上面荒謬在這個主文上面違法更重要的他們在程序上面亂證直接提進婦公投掏空立法程序又在今天用多數暴力表決解決辦法只有一個就是罷免國民黨的立委"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1461,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（11時55分）主席、各位同仁。今天我在這裡首先要告訴大家，請大家不要再講反廢死公投了，因為國民黨所提出來的公投案並不是反廢死公投，他們一開始號稱要提出反廢死公投，結果被整個社會輿論譏笑說現在又沒有死刑，也沒有相關廢死的法案在立法院，他們提這個反廢死公投，就跟提要禁止外星人跟臺灣人結婚一樣，它是一個平行時空，完全不存在的議題。結果被笑了之後，他們在意旨上趕快改，改什麼？他們現在沒有說要反廢死了，而是說反對死刑判決應該要一致決，這個是憲法法庭憲判字第8號所作出的解釋，所以這個不是反廢死公投。我們應該怎麼樣定義它？就是國民黨反對嚴謹的判決死刑的公投，國民黨反對判死刑要嚴謹，他們認為可以輕率地判死刑，這就是國民黨提這個公投案的真正主張。他們可以提出反對法院一定要一致決才能判死刑，那我們也可以提出一個是否贊成三個法官裡面只要有一個說要判死刑就可以判死刑，我們也可以提出只要媒體報導有人贊成判死刑，這個人就判死刑。這是針對判死刑的嚴謹與否的程序，國民黨要進行公投，這是他們意旨上面最荒謬的地方。","第二個是他們的這個公投主文，公投主文表示，根據公投法第二條第二項，他們提出這個公投案，而且他們也知道憲法法庭判決是不能拿來公投的，所以他們在後面偷加了兩個字，說你是否贊成這個政策，他們加了「政策」兩個字，為什麼？因為公投法第二條第二項提到，能夠作為公投客體的只有：第一、法律之複決，這顯然不是法律案的複決；第二、立法原則之創制，這個也不是立法原則的創制，所以他們只好用第三款，即重大政策之創制或複決，因此他們才加了「政策」兩個字。但是各位，死刑判決必須要法官一致決，這個不是政策耶！這個是憲法法庭的判決，這是與憲法同等效力的。他們在意旨上面荒謬，在主文上面違法，更重要的，他們在程序上面亂政，直接提逕付公投，掏空立法程序，又在今天用多數暴力表決，解決辦法只有一個，就是罷免國民黨的立委！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈發惠委員的發言。","報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是遠從臺中來的霧峰分局的顧問團朋友，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161475","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161475","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7469dd9499c1545e5edb8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fbe2bac01cfa5d53fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"11:52:18 - 11:55:25","影片長度":"00:03:07","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:52:18+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:55:25+08:00","duration":187,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.41784375,"end":10.020968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.746593750000002,"end":40.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.969718750000006,"end":58.165343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.73909375,"end":70.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.45034375,"end":72.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.45409375,"end":83.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.42284375,"end":99.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.33596875,"end":107.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.40221875,"end":120.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.99096875000001,"end":131.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.14534375,"end":132.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.90471875,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.07534375,"end":153.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.21784375000001,"end":185.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.47846875000002,"end":187.96784375000001}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.778,"end":26.09,"text":"主席各位同仁我們現在要討論的是本月委員吳宗憲等52人拟據公投提案主文他是你是否同意各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決之政策請公決案"},{"start":26.71,"end":45.011,"text":"是的 就如同我的同仁民進黨的委員們所指稱現在在場的國民黨委員一共只有王宏威委員和葛如居委員兩位其他的這些共同提案委員都不在現場本席要提醒各位這一案根本不能簡稱為反被死"},{"start":45.552,"end":72.607,"text":"因為第一 台灣沒有廢死 何來廢死公投大法官已經說死刑核限而且死刑的嚇阻功能為我國人民之法感情所支持第二 這一案的題目內容更是和支持或反對死刑毫無關係因為這一案現在的提案主文各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須以自決在人民投票決定之後"},{"start":73.507,"end":98.897,"text":"不管公投最後的結果投票結果是通過還是不通過都不會形成廢除死刑或不廢除死刑的效果所以如果說這個提案是反廢死公投要不就是國民黨刻意欺騙誤導人民要不然就是國民黨再一次展現他立法品質低落的最佳證明"},{"start":100.39,"end":120.467,"text":"遵守憲法對多數人民政府機關都是最基本的常識但是對部分立法委員來說卻好像難如登天公投提案主文的各級法院和議庭法官判處死刑不須以自決這個在113年憲判自第八號大法官所作出的判決完全相反"},{"start":121.167,"end":147.583,"text":"大法官對死刑核限所作出的憲法解釋是大法官對於憲法保障人民生命權的剝奪所要求的正當法律程序而根據公投法公投的類型可以分為法律的覆決立法原則的創制以及重大政策之覆決與創制請問現在你到底是在對哪一種類型提出公投"},{"start":148.323,"end":170.419,"text":"如果是立法行政政策的話那麼這是可以提出的嗎這一屆的立法院就像藍白擴權法案時不斷透過逾越立法院憲法職權範圍毀憲亂政蔑視權力分立的法治國原則藍白擴權的時候就是想要侵蝕行政部門的權力所以"},{"start":170.879,"end":170.899,"text":"好,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1456,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（11時52分）主席、各位同仁。現在要討論的是本院委員吳宗憲等52人擬具公投提案主文為「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」請公決案，是的，就如同我的同仁、民進黨的委員們所指稱，現在在場的國民黨委員一共只有王鴻薇委員和葛如鈞委員兩位，其他的這些共同提案委員都不在現場。","本席要提醒各位，這一案根本不能簡稱為反廢死，因為第一，臺灣沒有廢死，何來廢死公投？大法官已經說死刑合憲，而且死刑的嚇阻功能為我國人民之法感情所支持；第二，這一案的題目內容更是和支持或反對死刑毫無關係，因為這一案現在的提案主文：各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決，在人民投票決定之後，不管公投最後的投票結果是通過還是不通過，都不會形成廢除死刑或不廢除死刑的效果。","所以，如果說這個提案是反廢死公投，要不就是國民黨刻意欺騙、誤導人民，要不然就是國民黨再一次展現它立法品質低落的最佳證明。遵守憲法對多數人民、政府機關都是最基本的常識，但是對部分立法委員來說，卻好像難如登天，公投提案主文的各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決，這個跟113年憲判字第8號大法官所做出的判決完全相反，大法官對死刑合憲所做出的憲法解釋是，大法官對於憲法保障人民生命權的剝奪所要求的正當法律程序，根據公投法，公投的類型可以分為法律的複決、立法原則的創制以及重大政策之複決與創制。請問現在你到底是在對哪一種類型提出公投？如果是立法、行政政策的話，那麼這是可以提出的嗎？這一屆的立法院，就像藍白擴權法案時不斷透過逾越立法院憲法職權範圍，毀憲亂政、蔑視權力分立的法治國原則，藍白擴權的時候，就是想要侵蝕行政部門的權力，只要讓國民黨掌握立法院多數，他們就能夠搞亂整個國家，連權力分立都不會分，因此這一次的這個公投，絕對是欺騙人民的公投，我們當然反對。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員發言。","接下來請沈發惠委員發言，吳思瑤委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161474","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161474","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7467284e20093fce571b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb0c61b53b4db24b935ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:49:01 - 11:52:08","影片長度":"00:03:07","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:49:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:52:08+08:00","duration":187,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.06409375,"end":186.80346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.07,"end":20.631,"text":"好謝謝主席雖然時間只有三分鐘可是我要再次強調目前在我左手邊國民黨團只有王宏威委員還有葛如君委員出席基本上提出這個公投提案的黨團卻不出席不發言我想大家可以看得出來他們有多麼害怕罷免"},{"start":21.172,"end":30.082,"text":"因為他們知道自己在推的是詐騙公投他們也知道自己在推的是空殼公投我想我要再次強調因為我們會繼續論述繼續主張但是他們會繼續詐騙繼續空殼因為他們知道自己要被罷免了他們希望可以混淆人民"},{"start":39.292,"end":66.318,"text":"可以製造錯誤的視聽我要再次強調台灣目前並沒有廢除死刑也沒有藍白所謂虛構的實質廢死的說法我們來看憲判第八號但是雖然國民黨有很多自己標榜自己是法學專家但是他可能不願意去看別人的見解不願意去聽別人的聲音憲判第八號裡面有說死刑在目前是有條件核限所謂的有條件就是指"},{"start":66.798,"end":86.617,"text":"程序必須慎重確保作為終極手段的死刑不會被濫用如果按照今天的提案邏輯來看難道國民黨團你們認為死刑可以不用慎重嗎死刑作為終極手段可以不用清清楚楚仔細的討論嗎你們認為以自決這件事情是不可以的嗎我知道為什麼了"},{"start":92.222,"end":121.426,"text":"因為過往的國民黨在台灣戒嚴時期恐怖時期白恐時期你們看到不爽讓你們不爽的人你們要殺就殺要關就關要限制他們的自由就限制他們的自由這就是國民黨的威權邏輯這就是國民黨的邏輯所以他現在不管人權不管程序不好好討論不在乎邏輯更不在意民意推出這樣的公投"},{"start":121.846,"end":143.808,"text":"我大概也可以理解其來有自這就是國民黨的歷史這就是國民黨荒謬的傳統而現在他們要把這個荒謬的傳統繼續詐騙台灣人民所以我要說國民黨這一次提出的公投提案不是對司法的關心而是再一次把民意當工具把人民對他們的信任"},{"start":144.569,"end":168.874,"text":"還剩下少少的信任當成政治提款機再一次不願意去關心制度不願意討論修法不願意去想像一個更美好的未來而只要用一個詐騙空殼公投來欺騙人民如果國民黨現在在國會多數你們真的在意這些事情你們可以做的事情是教育的改革是社會安全網的加強"},{"start":169.574,"end":185.639,"text":"是司法制度的討論但這些你們都不談你們也不做你們想要發錢你們想要詐騙人民所以所有委員剛剛已經說了只有六個字可以解決現在荒謬的國會跟我一起喊大罷免大成功謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1451,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（11時49分）謝謝主席。雖然時間只有3分鐘，可是我要再次強調，目前在我左手邊，國民黨團只有王鴻薇委員還有葛如鈞委員出席，基本上提出這個公投提案的黨團卻不出席、不發言，我想大家可以看得出來，他們有多麼害怕罷免，因為他們知道自己在推的是詐騙公投，他們也知道自己在推的是空殼公投！我想我要再次強調，因為我們會繼續論述、繼續主張，但是他們會繼續詐騙、繼續空殼，因為他們知道自己要被罷免了，他們希望可以混淆人民、可以製造錯誤的視聽！","我要再次強調，臺灣目前並沒有廢除死刑、也沒有藍白虛構的實質廢死說法！我們來看憲判字第8號，雖然國民黨有很多自己標榜自己是法學專家，但是他可能不願意去看別人的見解，不願意去聽別人的聲音。憲判字第8號裡面有說死刑目前是有條件合憲，所謂的有條件就是指程序必須慎重，確保作為終極手段的死刑不會被濫用，如果按照今天的提案邏輯來看，難道國民黨團你們認為死刑可以不用慎重嗎？死刑作為終極手段，可以不用清清楚楚、仔仔細細的討論嗎？你們認為一致決這件事情是不可以的嗎？我知道為什麼了，因為過往的國民黨在臺灣戒嚴時期、恐怖時期、白恐時期，你們看到讓你們不爽的人，你們要殺就殺，要關就關，要限制他們的自由就限制他們的自由，這就是國民黨的威權邏輯，這就是國民黨的邏輯，所以它現在不管人權、不管程序、不好好討論、不在乎邏輯，更不在意民意，推出這樣的公投，我大概可以理解其來有自，這就是國民黨的歷史，這就是國民黨荒謬的傳統，而現在他們要把這個荒謬的傳統拿來繼續詐騙臺灣人民。","所以我要說國民黨這一次提出的公投提案，不是對司法的關心，而是再一次把民意當工具，把人民對他們的信任，還剩下少少的信任當成政治提款機，再一次不願意去關心制度、不願意討論修法、不願意去想像一個更美好的未來，而只要用一個詐騙、空殼公投來欺騙人民。國民黨現在在國會是多數，你們真的在意這些事情，你們可以做的事情是教育的改革、是社會安全網的加強、是司法制度的討論，但這些你們都不談，你們也不做，你們想要發錢，你們想要詐騙人民，所以所有的委員剛剛已經說了，只有六個字可以解決現在荒謬的國會，跟我一起喊「大罷免，大成功！」謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員發言。","接下來蘇巧慧委員發言，沈發惠委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161473","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161473","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746420ff5d91946159eb8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb7e067b1efe2647ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"11:45:40 - 11:48:53","影片長度":"00:03:13","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:45:40+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:48:53+08:00","duration":193,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.82721875,"end":8.687843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.700343750000002,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.762843750000002,"end":19.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":21.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.64346875,"end":27.672218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.79034375,"end":28.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.97159375,"end":29.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.984093750000003,"end":36.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.25721875,"end":40.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.12159375,"end":41.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.032843750000005,"end":44.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.627218750000004,"end":45.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.60596875,"end":51.415343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.60096875,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.65534375,"end":57.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.69284375,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.688468750000006,"end":60.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.679718750000006,"end":67.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.73346875,"end":73.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.40346875,"end":75.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.56346875,"end":76.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.89659375000001,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.27971875,"end":82.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.32596875,"end":86.16096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.41409375,"end":89.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.63721875,"end":90.22784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.71721875,"end":91.22346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.67909375,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.30721875,"end":95.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.62346875,"end":97.97346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.68221875,"end":99.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.86346875000001,"end":102.34409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.03596875000001,"end":103.69409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.53784375000001,"end":106.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.71471875,"end":108.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.16596875,"end":108.87471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.14471875000001,"end":110.15721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.88284375,"end":111.42284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.96284375,"end":115.00034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.48971875000001,"end":116.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.38409375,"end":116.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.34596875000001,"end":118.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.93221875,"end":121.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.68284375,"end":123.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.62346875,"end":126.45846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.61034375000001,"end":127.60596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.04471875000002,"end":129.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.73221875000002,"end":129.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.81659375,"end":134.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.82846875,"end":135.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.80721875,"end":136.44846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.76909375,"end":137.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.84909375,"end":144.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.66659375,"end":150.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.29846875,"end":154.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.87596875,"end":159.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.70221875000001,"end":162.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.19534375,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.67596875,"end":169.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.14784375000002,"end":172.22346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.51034375,"end":174.78846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.21034375000002,"end":176.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.59409375,"end":177.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.70784375000002,"end":179.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.18846875,"end":183.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.37784375,"end":185.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.34784375,"end":187.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.71471875,"end":189.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.36846875,"end":190.83659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.08971875,"end":191.79846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.841,"end":21.521,"text":"好 謝謝首先還是很認真的對於國民黨這一次提出來的公投的主文內容是寫你是否同意各級法院何義廷法官判處死刑不需一字決的政策"},{"start":22.708,"end":43.578,"text":"反死刑公投其實這個就是針對我們憲判第八號的反制那就是說依照公投但是依照公投法實施的公投公投的內容他其實不能抵觸憲法當然也不能抵觸憲法的這些解釋跟判決但是藍白如果一致決的"},{"start":46.656,"end":55.521,"text":"以自覺死刑是違憲的其實藍白應該照法律上來講應該用立委的身份再去申請釋憲啊"},{"start":58.697,"end":81.58,"text":"我們大家都忘記了因為藍白全面杯葛大法官的人士同意權所以他們也無從申請釋憲如同剛剛其他委員講的藍白中國國民黨跟台灣民眾黨沒有要把台灣的憲法當作一回事我來大家帶大家複習一下去年一整年立法院發生的事情"},{"start":82.341,"end":110,"text":"他們把國會擴權法案包裝成國會改革法案想要騙但是被我們憲法法庭在6月21號的時候否決了認為這個是違憲馬上國民黨又提出憲法訴訟法的修法要毀掉這個憲法法庭在1月10號的附議案又被否決了"},{"start":113.098,"end":129.472,"text":"現在這個反廢死的公投案其實一樣它是用反廢死來包裝即將要發生的8月23號希望用這個反廢死的議題來包裝他們即將要被罷免"},{"start":130.032,"end":145.397,"text":"希望用這個反廢死的這個假的議題來包裝不要被罷免所以在這邊還是要很認真的提出來其實台灣有沒有此行 有法務部在今年1月16號對黃凱琳執行槍決這黃凱琳是殺害一對母女"},{"start":151.363,"end":176.874,"text":"那經過第八字號判決以後台灣各級法院有沒有做出死刑的判決?有在高雄地方法院2025年3月10號對於殺害兩個父母的無性男子也提出了死刑判決台灣有沒有死刑?有台灣有沒有執行死刑?有國民黨想要做什麼?想要騙"},{"start":177.754,"end":188.045,"text":"他就是想要騙台灣人民利用這一個包裝的假公投來掩飾他們即將被罷免還是一個結論種種毀線亂象必須要大罷免大成功"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1445,"blocks":[["李委員柏毅：（11時45分）謝謝。首先還是很認真的看一下國民黨這一次提出來的公投主文，內容是寫：「您是否同意『各級法院合議庭法官判處死刑不須一致決』之政策？」，其實這一個反死刑公投就是針對憲判字第8號的反制，但是依照公投法實施的公投內容其實不能牴觸憲法，當然也不能牴觸憲法的這些解釋跟判決，但是藍白如果認為一致決死刑是違憲的，照法律上來講，藍白應該用立委的身分再去聲請釋憲。啊！我們大家都忘記了，因為藍白全面杯葛大法官的人事同意權，所以他們也無從聲請釋憲，如同剛剛其他委員講的藍白、中國國民黨跟台灣民眾黨沒有要把臺灣的憲法當作一回事。","我來帶大家複習一下去年一整年立法院發生的事情，他們把國會擴權法案包裝成國會改革法案，想要騙！但是被憲法法庭在6月21號的時候否決了、認為這個違憲，馬上國民黨又提出憲法訴訟法的修法要毀掉這個憲法法庭，而1月10號的覆議案又被否決了。現在這一個反廢死公投案其實一樣，它是用反廢死來包裝即將要發生的8月23號，希望用這一個反廢死的議題來包裝他們即將要被罷免，希望用這一個反廢死的假議題來包裝不要被罷免！","所以在這邊還是要很認真的提出來，其實臺灣有沒有死刑？有！法務部在今年1月16號對黃麟凱執行槍決，這位黃麟凱是殺害一對母女；經過憲判字第8號判決以後，臺灣各級法院有沒有做出死刑的判決？有！高雄地方法院在2025年3月10號對於殺害兩位父母的吳姓男子也提出了死刑判決。臺灣有沒有死刑？有！臺灣有沒有執行死刑？有！","國民黨想要做什麼？想要騙！它就是想要騙臺灣人民，利用這一個包裝的假公投來掩飾他們即將被罷免。還是一個結論，種種毀憲亂象，必須要大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝李柏毅委員發言。","接下來我們請陳培瑜委員發言，蘇巧慧委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161472","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161472","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746146be341f3a928c1b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb5676bdfe407d455b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"11:42:15 - 11:45:31","影片長度":"00:03:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:42:15+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:45:31+08:00","duration":196,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.53471875,"end":26.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.42346875,"end":34.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.69221875,"end":74.36534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.48346875,"end":90.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.97034375000001,"end":101.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.24284375,"end":114.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.67971875,"end":148.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.98659375,"end":164.64659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.13596875000002,"end":180.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.71159375000002,"end":195.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.94596875000002,"end":194.80221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.34,"end":1.46,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":16.544,"end":33.45,"text":"好謝謝各位同仁我要告訴大家國民黨提這個反廢死公投其實就是他們非常懦弱投機而且怕罷免再說一次國民黨提這個反廢死公投就是因為他們懦弱投機而且怕罷免"},{"start":34.97,"end":55.427,"text":"記得在國民黨2018跟2021的時候其實都有提過公投當時他們都還願意動員支持者來進行相關的連署結果四年之後他們現在再次提公投在朱立倫的帶領之下卻淪落到只敢投機取巧叫立法委員不修法然後提出公投案"},{"start":56.107,"end":73.962,"text":"然後懦弱到連三四十萬的人次的動員都不敢嘗試這就是國民黨的懦弱再來他們自稱這個是反廢死公投但是其實提案的主文是說您是否同意各級法院和議庭的法官判處死刑不須一決制的政策"},{"start":74.662,"end":101.258,"text":"大家看清楚喔這個主文是在講說人民投票決定各級法院在評議這個判處被告死刑的時候何怡婷的法官的意見要不要完全一致請問這個內容跟你是不是支持死刑或反對死刑到底有什麼關係所以這就是文不對題啊所以最後不論這個公投的結果到底有沒有通過都不會形成有無廢除死刑的任何的法律效果"},{"start":102.519,"end":118.733,"text":"所以國民黨現在提這個是否以自決的一個程序問題把它包裝成反Face公投這就是一場幽靈公投這根本就是把人民當白痴爽再來最重要的問題就是台灣根本就沒有Face"},{"start":119.093,"end":147.822,"text":"何來的廢死公投呢台灣到目前為止都還有死刑大法官釋憲的時候也不斷的說明死刑何限啊死刑何限啊甚至今年一月都還有執行死刑欸連國民黨自己前陣子不久不是都還在講說要提案虐童唯一死刑嗎這個就恰恰證明了台灣一直都是有死刑的啊那我不知道說國民黨現在反廢死到底是在反幾點的啊"},{"start":149.011,"end":164.057,"text":"所以最後我要告訴大家其實中選會也講得很清楚公投法裡面也寫得很清楚公投案的提出必須要是創制或是覆決那請問國民黨提的這個主文到底是創制還是覆決"},{"start":165.197,"end":179.307,"text":"都不是所以很簡單國民黨提出這個公投案只是希望說藉此來操作民粹希望掩耳盜鈴希望到時候可以動員支持者出來投票因為他們怕罷免"},{"start":180.828,"end":183.211,"text":"那很顯然就我剛剛以上的說明這個反廢死的公投實質上跟有無廢除死刑的內容一點關係都沒有所以很簡單這麼不適任亂提案的立法委員把他們罷免"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1439,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（11時42分）謝謝各位同仁。我要告訴大家，國民黨提這個反廢死公投，其實就是他們非常懦弱、投機而且怕罷免，再說一次，國民黨提這個反廢死公投，就是因為他們懦弱、投機而且怕罷免。記得國民黨在2018年跟2021年的時候其實都有提過公投，當時他們都還願意動員支持者來進行相關的連署，結果四年之後，他們現在再次提公投，在朱立倫的帶領之下，卻淪落到只敢投機取巧，叫立法委員不修法，然後提出公投案，懦弱到連三、四十萬人次的動員都不敢嘗試，這就是國民黨的懦弱。","再來，他們自稱這是反廢死公投，但其實提案的主文是說您是否同意各級法院合議庭的法官判處死刑不須議決制的政策，大家看清楚，這個主文是在講人民投票決定各級法院在評議判處被告死刑的時候，合議庭法官的意見要不要完全一致。請問這個內容跟是否支持死刑或反對死刑到底有什麼關係？所以這就是文不對題。因此最後不論這個公投的結果到底有沒有通過，都不會形成有無廢除死刑的任何法律效果，所以國民黨現在提這個是否一致決的程序問題，把它包裝成反廢死公投，這就是一場幽靈公投，這根本就是把人民當白癡耍。","再來，最重要的問題就是臺灣根本就沒有廢死，何來的廢死公投呢？臺灣到目前為止都還有死刑，大法官釋憲的時候也不斷說明死刑合憲啊、死刑合憲啊，甚至今年1月都還有執行死刑耶，連國民黨自己前陣子不久不是都還在講要提案虐童唯一死刑嗎？這就恰恰證明了臺灣一直都是有死刑的啊，我不知道國民黨現在反廢死到底是在反幾點的啊？","最後我要告訴大家，其實中選會也講得很清楚，公投法裡面也寫得很清楚，公投案的提出必須要是創制或是複決，請問國民黨提的這個主文到底是創制還是複決？都不是！所以很簡單，國民黨提出這個公投案只是希望藉此來操作民粹、希望掩耳盜鈴、希望到時候可以動員支持者出來投票，因為他們怕罷免！很顯然就我剛剛以上的說明，這個反廢死公投實質上跟有無廢除死刑的內容一點關係都沒有，所以很簡單，這麼不適任、亂提案的立法委員把他們罷免！"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員發言。","接下來李柏毅委員發言，陳培瑜委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161471","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161471","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746f97d05822e5ebd68b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb905b1f1929327f535ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"11:40:03 - 11:42:06","影片長度":"00:02:03","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:40:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:42:06+08:00","duration":123,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.39721875,"end":12.974093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.125968750000002,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.05784375,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.106593750000002,"end":34.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.53596875,"end":36.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.409093750000004,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.38721875,"end":44.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.13784375,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.54596875,"end":62.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.75534375,"end":63.953468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.22346875000001,"end":65.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.69159375000001,"end":75.42846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.56346875,"end":76.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.60971875,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.65159375,"end":82.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.65096875,"end":84.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.40596875,"end":90.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.83534375,"end":93.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.78846875,"end":97.07909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.19721875,"end":104.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.68971875000001,"end":108.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.72284375000001,"end":113.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.22409375000001,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.33721875,"end":120.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.66159375000001,"end":122.96534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.461,"end":30.931,"text":"好 主席 各位委員像這個這麼悅耳的聲音啊 李焕宜聽這個又逼聽這個國民黨拿一些有的沒的才有意義啊國民黨啊 衝衝這個什麼反廢時公投啊 你想要罵公民進黨對私刑的態度啊 那不好啦啊 1月10日就怕他親我一個娘啊你們就要說 雖然親我一個可是沒辦法解除你們的質疑"},{"start":35.575,"end":61.116,"text":"要大調是怎樣?不然你又怕沒衛生?你當初你創這個公投,不知道你要創什麼?你就是看了大罷免大成功看得到北韋中,叫這個罷免這個公投,都要淋淋酒的,你實在是在亂講淋淋酒的,你就想要選團,我教你怎麼選團?進去,不管看得到公投的,看得到要罷免的,都要投贊成這樣啦"},{"start":62.837,"end":74.962,"text":"都跟他同意,這樣你告訴我什麼?你把那個公投叫做,如果真的有辦公投,那就是要罷免你你去的政客,去的社區裡面,就跟這裡的大家說說這次,那個罷免的也同意,公投的也同意,你實在是有狡猾的帝國還不可以用,這個投票也不知道怎麼說像你如果說,欸,日本如果投給國民黨要罷免,不同意"},{"start":90.888,"end":110.144,"text":"如果那些公投的要同意,這樣會廢棄整棍都說同意,這樣事情就改變了連翁都不相容我會去找,跟大嬸保養說,你們這時候沒有主席跟老大之外這條,建議你們撤回帝母庭寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺寺"},{"start":122.748,"end":122.769,"text":"好"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1435,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（11時40分）主席、各位委員。像這種這麼悅耳的聲音，立法院聽這個比聽國民黨提的這些有的沒的還有意義啦，國民黨弄這個什麼反廢死公投，你想要抹黑民進黨對死刑的態度，那沒用啦，1月16日才槍決一個而已，你們就說雖然有槍決一個，可是沒辦法解除你們的質疑，那這是怎樣？不識字又兼沒衛生，你們以為弄這個公投，大家不知道你們在做什麼喔？你們就是怕大罷免、大成功，看能不能8月那一場把罷免跟公投都包裹在一起，你們實在很笨，包裹在一起你們最好宣傳，我教你們怎麼宣傳，就是進去不管看到公投的或看到罷免的，都投贊成、都投同意，這樣你們比較好說明，你們8月的公投，如果真的有辦公投，又順便要罷免你們，你們去鄉下、去社區裡面就跟大家說，說進去之後，罷免的也同意、公投的也同意，你們實在是有夠笨的！題目也不會用，投票也不知道要怎麼說；你如果說進去之後看到要罷免國民黨的投不同意，公投的要投同意，這樣就亂掉了，乾脆整個都說要投同意，這樣事情就解決了。連用都不會用，難怪會被人家笑，剛才沈伯洋說你們真的沒資格再留在立法院，這條建議你們撤回、題目重寫，寫一個大家比較聽得懂的，不然這種程度，這都是歷史文件耶，亂弄一通，改天會被人家笑死啦！可憐啦！"],["主席：謝謝王義川委員發言。","接下來請黃捷委員發言，李柏毅委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161470","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161470","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746eb27a2d6cae20016b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb147423978a1619b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"11:35:27 - 11:38:36","影片長度":"00:03:09","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:35:27+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:38:36+08:00","duration":189,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.624718750000001,"end":35.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.36721875,"end":50.166593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.65596875,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.439093750000005,"end":80.64284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.16596875,"end":86.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.08909375,"end":94.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.12159375,"end":98.58096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.18846875000001,"end":104.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.65596875,"end":109.36409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.56659375000001,"end":118.40909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.76346875,"end":128.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.60159375,"end":133.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.81596875,"end":143.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.75534375,"end":156.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.17534375,"end":188.64284375000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.265,"end":2.568,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":7.902,"end":34.578,"text":"好 謝謝主席那這個各位委員我覺得這一個名稱雖然叫做反廢死公投但是在國民黨的角度我覺得應該把它叫做反憲法公投簡單來講國民黨就是要告訴大家這個憲法的任何的一些權力分立的原則國民黨沒有想要遵守這個從去年開始一直到現在國民黨都一直依照這個路徑在立法院活動"},{"start":35.498,"end":49.465,"text":"第一個他先通過了國會濫權他想要讓立法權可以凌駕到行政權的身上所以呢他可以想要把誰叫來問話就問話然後用藐視國會罪相審而這個呢已經被大法官宣告違憲"},{"start":50.706,"end":80.169,"text":"後來他們把腦袋動到監察院的身上把監察院的預算幹掉把監察院裡面的辦法提出認為監察院全部都要來聽立法院的話接下來他們又把他們的腦筋動到司法的身上最有名的就是當今天司法在追溯國民黨的偽造文書在追溯國民黨的犯罪的時候結果現在是用包圍法院的方式去對我們的這個司法體系施壓"},{"start":81.249,"end":98.32,"text":"而一直到現在他們更進一步呢要再去弱化我們司法院的一個權力從而廢除了憲法法庭讓憲法法庭沒有辦法實質的運作只能受理跟不受理相關的案件而到今天提出這個公投案他是說什麼"},{"start":99.261,"end":117.829,"text":"因為憲法法庭已經對於死刑核限一事做出了決定結果我們的立法院不但不想要遵守這個決定還要把這件事情來交付公投想要告訴全國的民眾很抱歉今天憲法法庭講什麼都不算數"},{"start":118.869,"end":133.154,"text":"所以今天憲法法庭應該要被廢掉今天憲法法庭說國會濫權是違憲那是他的問題憲法法庭說死刑核憲那也是他的問題那國民黨不就是在反對憲法嗎他就是在反對司法的存在"},{"start":133.894,"end":155.46,"text":"台灣的民主化走到今天為什麼能夠民主不斷的深化就是因為司法能夠獨立就是因為司法能夠進行他的權能但是國民黨違背了最重要的權力分立的原則他凌駕了行政他凌駕了監察甚至還有這個國家安全戰略法以及上一個公投案的反戒嚴"},{"start":156.54,"end":173.648,"text":"國家安全按照公投法第16項這是總統的權利應該是總統交付公投怎麼會是立法院交付公投呢所以他也開始凌駕了總統的權利讓他想要架空行政架空監察架空總統到現在想要架空這個國家的司法"},{"start":174.088,"end":188.041,"text":"我必須告訴全國的民眾像這樣的立法委員根本就不應該留在立法院因為他會破壞從1949年到現在台灣人民努力建立起來的民主制度大罷免 大成功 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1431,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（11時35分）謝謝主席。各位委員，我覺得這一個名稱雖然叫做反廢死公投，但是在國民黨的角度，我覺得應該把它叫做反憲法公投。簡單來講，國民黨就是要告訴大家對憲法任何的權力分立原則，國民黨沒有想要遵守，從去年開始一直到現在，國民黨都一直依照這個路徑在立法院活動，第一個，他先通過了國會濫權，他想要讓立法權可以凌駕到行政權之上，所以他可以想要把誰叫來問話就問話，然後用藐視國會罪相繩，而這個已經被大法官宣告違憲。後來他們把腦筋動到監察院身上，把監察院的預算幹掉，把監察院裡面的辦法提出，認為監察院全部都要來聽立法院的話。接下來他們又把他們的腦筋動到司法身上，最有名的就是當今天司法在追訴國民黨的偽造文書、在追訴國民黨的犯罪的時候，結果現在是用包圍法院的方式去對我們的司法體系施壓，而一直到現在，他們更進一步要再去弱化我們司法院的權力，從而廢除了憲法法庭，讓憲法法庭沒有辦法實質的運作，只能受理跟不受理相關的案件。","而到今天提出這個公投案，他是說什麼？因為憲法法庭已經對於死刑合憲一事做出了決定，結果我們的立法院不但不想要遵守這個決定，還要把這件事情來交付公投，想要告訴全國的民眾：很抱歉，今天憲法法庭講什麼都不算數，所以今天憲法法庭應該要被廢掉，今天憲法法庭說國會濫權是違憲，那是它的問題，憲法法庭說死刑合憲，那也是它的問題。那國民黨不就是在反對憲法嗎？它就是在反對司法的存在。臺灣的民主化走到今天，為什麼民主能夠不斷的深化，就是因為司法能夠獨立，就是因為司法能夠進行它的權能，但是國民黨違背了最重要的權力分立原則，它凌駕了行政，它凌駕了監察，甚至還有國家安全戰略法以及上一個公投案的反戒嚴。國家安全按照公投法第十六條，這是總統的權力，應該是總統交付公投，怎麼會是立法院交付公投呢？所以它也開始凌駕了總統的權力，當它想要架空行政、架空監察、架空總統，到現在想要架空這個國家的司法，我必須告訴全國的民眾，像這樣的立法委員根本就不應該留在立法院，因為他會破壞從1949年到現在臺灣人民努力建立起來的民主制度。大罷免，大成功！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員的發言。","報告院會，現在來我們議場2樓旁聽的是遠自屏東來的希望兒童合唱團，他們7月份要去歐洲比賽，我們以熱烈掌聲歡迎你們來立法院，你們是遠從屏東來的。好，謝謝，祝福你們7月份在歐洲，好，祝福。","謝謝，Ila！開會了，請坐好，歡迎你們，也祝福你們7月份在歐洲可以得到最好的成績回臺灣，歡迎你們來立法院，請坐。報告院會，接下來請王義川委員發言，黃捷委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161469","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161469","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff74657e2540e435ea100b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb3696169a3617e29d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:32:01 - 11:35:18","影片長度":"00:03:17","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:32:01+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:35:18+08:00","duration":197,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.29534375,"end":14.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.404093750000001,"end":16.551593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.75409375,"end":18.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.15034375,"end":21.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.69846875,"end":23.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.516593750000002,"end":27.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.11096875,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.915968750000005,"end":36.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.41346875,"end":38.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.02909375,"end":40.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.665968750000005,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.23096875,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.99846875,"end":52.579718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.95096875,"end":58.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.806593750000005,"end":66.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.53096875,"end":68.12159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.52659375,"end":70.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.73721875000001,"end":72.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.99846875,"end":76.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.79534375,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.38159375000001,"end":82.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.68034375,"end":85.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.04284375,"end":93.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.94034375000001,"end":94.58159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.88534375,"end":95.40846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.94846875,"end":100.28534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.67346875000001,"end":101.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.15846875000001,"end":108.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.02659375,"end":109.54971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.78596875000001,"end":112.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.45221875,"end":113.31284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.57846875000001,"end":115.64159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.77221875000001,"end":117.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.37534375000001,"end":119.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.31596875000001,"end":120.97409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.53096875000001,"end":123.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.04534375,"end":127.94346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.22596875000002,"end":133.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.86659375000002,"end":135.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.90846875,"end":139.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.65471875,"end":141.52784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.76409375,"end":160.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.57971875,"end":161.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.19971875000002,"end":163.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.85346875000002,"end":164.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.52409375000002,"end":166.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.16096875000002,"end":168.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.96659375000002,"end":169.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.06784375,"end":171.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.81846875000002,"end":180.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.72846875000002,"end":183.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.44096875000002,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.10721875000002,"end":194.80221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.332,"end":33.034,"text":"主席 在場委員先進 今天國民黨的委員提出了一個反廢死公投刑法有沒有廢死 大法官憲判有廢死嗎根據吳宗憲委員的提案說明 他說13憲判八字號 雖宣告死刑為有條件核憲憲判就死刑核憲啊 那今天到底要反廢死是要反哪一個的"},{"start":34.079,"end":57.713,"text":"說到這個不禁想到之前大法官也有一個解釋引起國人的注意就是釋字第七四八號這在2017年的時候大法官透過憲法解釋說民法未始相同性別兩人得經營共同生活之目的與憲法第22條保障婚姻自由與第7條保障人民平等權一直有違"},{"start":58.934,"end":82.5,"text":"那麼要在兩年內請立法院去修改至於用什麼方式來達成婚姻自由的平衡保障由立法權來決定之結果在大法官解釋婚姻平權之後婚姻同性婚姻平權之後呢立法院之外國民黨發動了三個公投其中一個說你是否同意民法婚姻規定應現在一男一女的結合"},{"start":83.715,"end":112.897,"text":"公投通過了沒 通過了你是我同意以民法婚姻規定以外之其他形式來保障同性別二人經營共同永久生活之權益通過了沒 通過了大衛周章搞了一個反對同性婚姻的公投之後結果呢結果行政院訂定了一個司法院釋字第78號解釋施刑法裡面保障了用這個法律保障了婚姻平權"},{"start":115.263,"end":132.963,"text":"時間過去了,八年的時間,台灣社會經歷了公投,台灣社會經歷了立法院的修法,台灣社會經歷了立法院重新訂立的釋制第七十八號,釋行法。不同的性別,相同的性別,在婚姻的關係上,同樣的平等。"},{"start":134.379,"end":161.241,"text":"請問大會桌上的結果國民黨發動這個公投你們的目的在哪裡社會被你們搞得烏煙瘴氣結果呢 今天大法官在我們的憲判9字號怎麼說他說法院組織法6組文第一條為明定殷晉何以廷法官一致絕死的科組死刑與憲法保障人民生命權和正常法律程序有違要立法院在兩年內來完成很清楚啊"},{"start":162.267,"end":163.074,"text":"就像國民黨說的啊憲法"},{"start":165.763,"end":193.796,"text":"憲判說的還是死刑核憲但是立法院要施定法律立法院捨自己的立法權不由卻來指摘法院卻來指摘大法官就像我們看到憲法訴訟法第五條就明定憲法訴訟法本身的審理規則是司法權專有結果國民黨的安排多數亂修一通現在捨自己的立法權不由要發動全民公投何其荒謬全民何其無掛我們堅決反對"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1426,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時32分）主席、在場委員先進。今天國民黨的委員提出了一個反廢死公投，刑法有沒有廢死？大法官憲判有廢死嗎？根據吳宗憲委員的提案說明，他說113年憲判字第8號雖宣告死刑為有條件合憲，所以憲判就說死刑合憲啊！今天要反廢死到底是要反哪一個？","說到這個不禁讓人想到之前大法官有一個解釋也引起國人的注意，就是釋字第748號，在2017年的時候，大法官透過憲法解釋表示：民法規定未使相同性別兩人，得為經營共同生活之目的；與憲法第二十二條保障婚姻自由與第七條保障人民平等權意旨有違；在兩年內請立法院去修改。這是用什麼方式來達成婚姻自由的平等保障？由立法權來決定之。","結果在大法官解釋同性婚姻平權之後，在立法院之外，國民黨發動了三個公投，其中一個是「你是否同意民法婚姻規定應限定在一男一女的結合？」公投通過了沒？通過了！「你是否同意以民法婚姻規定以外之其他形式來保障同性別二人經營共同永久生活之權益？」公投通過了沒？通過了！大費周章搞了一個反對同性婚姻的公投之後，結果行政院訂定了一個司法院釋字第748號解釋施行法，用這個法律保障了婚姻平權，8年的時間過去了，臺灣社會經歷了公投，臺灣社會經歷了立法院的修法，臺灣社會經歷了立法院重新訂定的司法院釋字第748號施行法，不同的性別、相同性別在婚姻關係上同樣的平等，請問大費周章的結果、國民黨發動這個公投，你們的目的在哪裡？社會被你們搞得烏煙瘴氣，結果呢？今天大法官在我們憲判字第8號怎麼說？它說，法院組織法就主文第一項案件，未明定應經合議庭法官之一致決始得科處死刑，與憲法保障人民生命權和正當法律程序有違，要立法院在兩年內來完成修正。很清楚啊！就像國民黨說的，憲判說的還是死刑合憲，但是立法院要制定法律，立法院捨自己的立法權不由，卻來指摘法院，卻來指摘大法官，就像我們看到憲法訴訟法第五條明定憲法訴訟法本身的審理規則是司法權專有，結果國民黨藍白多數亂修一通，現在捨自己的立法權不由，要發動全民公投，何其荒謬！全民何其無辜啊！我們堅決反對。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員發言。","接下來請沈伯洋委員發言，王義川委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161468","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161468","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7467345567c598efef5b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb06cf9b1052b938545ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:28:25 - 11:31:52","影片長度":"00:03:27","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:28:25+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:31:52+08:00","duration":207,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.31534375,"end":19.454093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.36534375,"end":22.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.84596875,"end":27.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.891593750000002,"end":29.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.76471875,"end":30.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.03034375,"end":31.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.46471875,"end":33.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.40534375,"end":35.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.37971875,"end":38.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.759093750000005,"end":40.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.27784375,"end":40.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.070968750000006,"end":43.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.939718750000004,"end":44.985968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.509093750000005,"end":47.314718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.65221875,"end":50.976593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.36471875,"end":52.680968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.984718750000006,"end":55.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.971593750000004,"end":56.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.77721875,"end":59.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.32534375,"end":60.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.57409375,"end":62.56971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.227843750000005,"end":65.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.67471875000001,"end":69.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.47159375000001,"end":71.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.88471875,"end":73.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.84221875,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.46096875,"end":86.56596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.12284375,"end":95.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.64471875000001,"end":100.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.70721875000001,"end":102.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.13721875,"end":107.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.26721875000001,"end":109.11096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.02221875000001,"end":113.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.61221875000001,"end":115.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.13096875000001,"end":117.61596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.95346875000001,"end":121.78409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.02034375000001,"end":131.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.28034375000001,"end":133.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.72721875000002,"end":145.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.64534375,"end":151.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.09159375000002,"end":153.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.71159375000002,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.52534375000002,"end":158.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.79096875000002,"end":160.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.05221875,"end":163.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.63409375,"end":164.86596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.16971875000002,"end":172.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.16846875000002,"end":173.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.77159375000002,"end":181.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.58909375000002,"end":182.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.02346875,"end":192.45659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.57471875000002,"end":197.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.46846875,"end":201.43409375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.023,"end":39.531,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們在場的同仁死刑是國家對於個人最嚴厲的一個處罰是一條人命那如果錯了他就沒有回頭路各位可以去想一想過去最愛死刑的政黨其實就是中國國民黨"},{"start":41.158,"end":60.754,"text":"最愛拿死刑來恫嚇人民的也是中國國民黨可是台灣民主化已經三十年了已經超過三十年了如果說一個判決連法官都還有疑慮的話那就代表是不是證據還沒有夠充分"},{"start":61.681,"end":86.236,"text":"是不是案情還有需要再斟酌的一個地方在這種情況之下你說叫法官輕率的讓他死刑確定讓國家機器動用這樣的一個刑法其實還是值得我們立法院好好再來考慮死刑不是不能支持我們現刑法裡面就有好多的死刑都還存在"},{"start":87.176,"end":112.757,"text":"所以國民黨的朋友其實也不用去刻意的用政治上的議題來鼓動民眾的一個情緒不管是在我們刑法裡面或者說我們一些特別法比如說民用航空法這一些事情都還存在那現在爭執的是說如果一個審判按照憲法法庭所揭示的他必須要法官的一致決這代表是一種慎重"},{"start":114.676,"end":132.932,"text":"我們也更期待我們朝野的政黨給法官更寬裕的一個空間不要用情緒去挑起民粹用政治上的一個攻防去干擾整個司法的一個運作守住人權"},{"start":134.793,"end":152.834,"text":"才是整個立法院該去做的事情而不是去滿足社會上民粹的一個情緒這個不是讓我們司法得到更公平或者說讓人民信賴的一條路各位去看看"},{"start":154.095,"end":159.518,"text":"歷史曾經給我們過教訓1949年國民黨推的懲治判斷條例唯一死刑連過去在1956年大法官4至68號到1970年更誇張的2號解釋這一些"},{"start":175.25,"end":201.261,"text":"讓我們這個國家台灣走了幾十年才把它撥亂反正過來中國國民黨你不可以輸掉了整個憲法法庭的一個解釋以後你重新再走回頭路利用公投這樣的一個方式我覺得中國國民黨的朋友好好的去善思不要連憲法法庭做出的解釋你都不把"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1418,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時28分）謝謝主席，還有我們在場同仁。死刑是國家對於個人最嚴厲的一個處罰，是一條人命，如果錯了，他就沒有回頭路。各位可以去想一想，過去最愛死刑的政黨其實就是中國國民黨，最愛拿死刑來恫嚇人民的也是中國國民黨，可是臺灣民主化已經超過30年了，如果說一個判決連法官都還有疑慮的話，那就代表是不是證據還沒有充分、是不是案情還有需要再斟酌的地方？在這種情況之下，你叫法官輕率地讓他死刑確定，讓國家機器動用這樣一個刑罰，其實還是值得我們立法院好好再來考慮。","死刑不是不能支持，我們現行法裡面就有好多的死刑都還存在，所以國民黨的朋友其實也不用去刻意用政治上的議題來鼓動民眾的情緒，不管是在我們的刑法或者是在我們的特別法，比如說民用航空法，像這些規定中死刑都還存在，現在爭執的是，如果一個審判按照憲法法庭所揭示的，必須要有法官的一致決，這代表的是一種慎重，我們也更期待我們朝野的政黨，給法官更寬裕的空間，不要用情緒去挑起民粹，用政治上的攻防去干擾整個司法的運作，守住人權才是整個立法院該去做的事情，而不是去滿足社會上民粹的情緒，這不是讓我們司法得到更公平或者是讓人民信賴的一條路。","各位去看看歷史曾經給我們過經驗，也曾經給我們過教訓，1949年國民黨推的懲治叛亂條例有唯一死刑，過去在1956年大法官釋字第68號，到了1970年有更誇張的兩號解釋，這一些讓我們臺灣這個國家走了幾十年，才把它撥亂反正過來，中國國民黨不可以輸掉了整個憲法法庭的解釋以後，重新再走回頭路，利用公投這樣一個方式。","中國國民黨的朋友，請好好三思，不要連憲法法庭做出的解釋，你都不把它當成一回事，用民粹來解決司法是最不足取的一件事情。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","接下來我們請鍾佳濱委員發言，沈伯洋委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161467","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161467","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7465dd988c99627c025b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fbc37aabb78ba47a255ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"11:23:38 - 11:27:10","影片長度":"00:03:32","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:23:38+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:27:10+08:00","duration":212,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.99159375,"end":9.953468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.915343750000002,"end":12.214718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.10909375,"end":18.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.90971875,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.18346875,"end":24.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.55034375,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.731593750000002,"end":26.558468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.300968750000003,"end":28.515968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.988468750000003,"end":29.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.49034375,"end":31.215968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.24534375,"end":32.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.44346875,"end":34.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.72596875,"end":38.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.41721875,"end":40.125968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.32846875,"end":44.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.783468750000004,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.924718750000004,"end":65.69159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.29909375,"end":68.22284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.52659375,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.83409375000001,"end":72.89721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.38659375,"end":74.95596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.42846875000001,"end":76.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.01034375,"end":82.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.33034375000001,"end":89.97471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.71721875,"end":94.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.98659375000001,"end":97.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.38284375,"end":98.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.34471875000001,"end":109.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.03909375,"end":111.20346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.79409375,"end":120.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.58596875,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.91846875,"end":137.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.23721875,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.92471875,"end":140.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.39284375,"end":142.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.08034375,"end":145.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.88159375,"end":157.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.84596875,"end":159.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.70221875000001,"end":161.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.82409375,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.72221875000002,"end":167.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.12284375000002,"end":174.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.34534375,"end":177.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.97784375,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.41096875000002,"end":193.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.95221875000001,"end":207.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.89721875,"end":212.06534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.225,"end":26.802,"text":"各位同仁,今天我們看到這個提案,要討論美國要求我們增加GDP10%的國防預算這件事情。如果我們的同仁夠用功,夠認真,會Google,就會發現這個議題的設定是假議題。為什麼呢?"},{"start":32.281,"end":38.672,"text":"第一個小錯誤而已柯伯吉不是準他在四月初就已經通過任命了"},{"start":39.482,"end":64.216,"text":"第二個 10% GDP的預算 這個10%從哪裡出現的第一次出現Kobe投書Taipei Times在2024年5月11號裡面點出台灣國防預算佔比2.5%不足 應該要5%後面加了一句話說 那如果很重要的話Why not 為什麼不10% 10%是這樣來的"},{"start":66.817,"end":89.251,"text":"當時他是民間人士 當時他是用投書的方式第二次出現是在2025年3月4號當時柯博吉擔任國務院副國務卿正式在眾議院外交委員會作證提到的數字是5% 也沒有提到10%"},{"start":90.765,"end":108.786,"text":"今天稍早幾個小時前美國眾議院對中特別委員會開會裡面就已經指出不應該要求台灣的國防預算佔GDP的10%甚至於認為台灣的經濟量體很大不應該用%數來討論我們的態度是什麼"},{"start":111.869,"end":136.066,"text":"我們國家的態度就是我們國家的安全我們自己應該要投資我們應該要重視不管是不對稱戰力或者是對於防衛任性我們都願意加大投資跟美方在談不管相關的軍事服務軍售的時候我們會就我們的需求來提出而美方就他的立場來討論"},{"start":138.271,"end":161.269,"text":"我們的國家的國防預算我們國家自己決定不是任何國家來指定所以如果美國一個官員在民間報社投書提到10%或者私下談話提到10%我們國會就要列案在這裡進行討論的話讓行政黨報告的話那麼我們這一次訪美"},{"start":162.881,"end":180.965,"text":"防美團在場的也有國民黨的委員副院長都在美國的國務院美國的國安會美國的國防部特別關切在野黨阻擋國防預算難道不應該列案美國參議院Dan Sullivan在軍事委員會聽證的時候點名國民黨三減動預算這是玩危險的遊戲難道不應該列案報告這都不應該"},{"start":187.466,"end":193.331,"text":"因為那是我們自己國家的事情所以我建議把這個案子暫緩那如果國民黨的同仁不分黨派國防部應該用政黨的顏色來區分謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1402,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（11時23分）各位同仁。今天我們看到這個提案要討論美國要求我們增加國防預算到GDP10%，如果我們的同仁夠用功、夠認真、會google，就會發現這個議題的設定是假議題，為什麼呢？第一個、小錯誤而已，柯伯吉不是「準」，他在4月初就已經通過任命了。","第二個、10%GDP的預算，這個10%從哪裡出現的？第一次出現是Colby在2024年5月11號投書Taipei Times，裡面點出臺灣國防預算占比2.5%不足，應該要5%，後面加了一句話說，如果很重要的話，why not？為什麼不10%？10%是這樣來的。當時他是民間人士，當時他是用投書的方式。第二次出現是在2025年3月4號，當時柯伯吉擔任國務院副國務卿，正式在眾議院外交委員會作證，提到的數字是5%，也沒有提到10%。今天稍早幾個小時前，美國眾議院對中特別委員會開會，裡面就已經指出，不應該要求臺灣的國防預算占GDP的10%，甚至於認為臺灣的經濟量體很大，不應該用%數來討論。","我們的態度是什麼？我們國家的態度就是，我們國家的安全，我們自己應該要投資，我們應該要重視，不管是不對稱戰力或者是對於防衛韌性，我們都願意加大投資，不管是跟美方在談相關的軍事服務、軍售的時候，我們會就我們的需求來提出，而美方就它的立場來討論。我們國家的國防預算，我們國家自己決定，不是任何國家來指定。","所以如果美國一個官員在民間報社投書提到10%或者私下談話提到10%，我們國會就要列案在這裡進行討論，讓行政院長報告的話，那麼我們這一次訪美團也有國民黨委員、副院長都在場，美國的國務院、美國的國安會、美國的國防部特別關切在野黨阻擋國防預算，難道不應該列案？美國參議院丹‧蘇利文在軍事委員會聽證的時候，點名國民黨刪減凍預算，這是玩危險的遊戲，難道不應該列案報告？這都不應該，因為那是我們自己國家的事情，所以我建議把這個案子暫緩。","如果國民黨的同仁真的重視我們國家防衛韌性的話，請先從支持1,500億提升國土安全防衛韌性開始，讓我們一起證明一件事情，國家安全不分黨派，國防不應該用政黨的顏色來區分，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇委員的發言。","報告院會，現有國民黨黨團提議本案逕付二讀。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161466","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161466","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7464371aa86cd0a105eb8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb8dabc12a4db4132a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"11:20:13 - 11:23:28","影片長度":"00:03:15","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:20:13+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:23:28+08:00","duration":195,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.29534375,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.590343750000002,"end":16.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.36159375,"end":17.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.812843750000003,"end":22.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.031593750000003,"end":24.870968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.12409375,"end":29.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.832218750000003,"end":36.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.189718750000004,"end":41.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.391593750000006,"end":42.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.14659375,"end":51.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.56721875,"end":55.46534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.66784375,"end":64.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.79721875,"end":87.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.43909375000001,"end":99.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.15034375,"end":104.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.29721875000001,"end":114.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.31659375000001,"end":132.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.93409375000002,"end":134.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.16159375,"end":137.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.76471875000001,"end":139.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.65471875,"end":142.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.79346875000002,"end":147.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.05846875,"end":149.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.12971875000002,"end":156.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.32721875000001,"end":163.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.27534375000002,"end":165.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.69284375,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.56096875,"end":193.97534375}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.332,"end":36.257,"text":"主席各位同仁大家好身為一個來自從小生活在戰地政務長大的這個立法委員我想我們對軍人尤其是我本人對軍人的尊重絕對是從心底的尊重從小我們見到軍人就必須行敬禮軍耐民民進軍在金門是我們刻在心裡的信念也是我們一直奉行的想法"},{"start":37.29,"end":54.997,"text":"所以今天剛剛沈伯陽委員說這個討論這個國防預算是不是要到GDP的10%是一個要試圖挑起軍人跟民間的對立對於這一點說法我非常不能苟同"},{"start":55.777,"end":77.017,"text":"因為在戰時的時候 打仗的時候 軍人跟民眾是一起的也是一體的 居民是不能分開的再來 他說國民黨故意要把這個案子排到第一案是因為十幾個小時前發生一個什麼議會啊 什麼事情啊台灣不能達到10%這種說法"},{"start":79.019,"end":93.33,"text":"我真的很遺憾沈博洋委員本身是程序委員會的委員這個案子在星期二的程序委員會就已經排進去了更何況要要求台灣的軍備預算達到台灣的GDP的10%這個要求並不是國民黨提出來的啊這是美國現在的國防部的次長"},{"start":105.319,"end":132.653,"text":"柯博吉他從有關防衛台灣問題這是他表示台灣的國防預算應該接近GDP的10%難道你是說這位美國的現在的國防部已經提名通過的4月15提名通過的國防部次長柯博吉先生說的是謊言嗎你是在我們的中華民國的國會殿堂公開批評美國的國防部次長嗎大家都知道"},{"start":136.226,"end":149.451,"text":"武力的武這個字 指戈為武對一個國家來講 對全民來講我們要有很強大的軍事力量 軍事防備不是只有武器"},{"start":151.172,"end":171.84,"text":"要打仗到最後一步的時候我們應該都要以民為念從賴總統3月13號宣布賴17條以來還有前天接受日本新聞的訪問他竟然說他說了國人要有最好的準備最好的打算其實意思就是說我們要準備打仗"},{"start":172.62,"end":193.691,"text":"如果總統真的覺得我們離戰爭已經非常的近了就必須很公開的不只是軍備的部分不只是預算的部分最重要是民防的準備也要準備所以我覺得我們需要請行政院長好好的來這裡報告到底我們政府的打算是怎麼樣用多少錢什麼時候準備打仗以上"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1396,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（11時20分）主席、各位同仁，大家好。身為一個從小生活在戰地長大的立法委員，我想我們對軍人的尊重，尤其是我本人，絕對是從心底的尊重，從小我們見到軍人就必須敬禮。軍愛民、民敬軍在金門是我們刻在心裡的信念，也是我們一直奉行的想法。所以剛剛沈伯洋委員說，討論國防預算是不是要到GDP的10%，是要試圖挑起軍人跟民間的對立。對於這一點說法，我非常不能苟同！因為在戰時、打仗的時候，軍人跟民眾是一起的，也是一體的，軍民是不能分開的。","再來，他說國民黨故意要把這個案子排到第一案，是因為十幾個小時前發生一個什麼議會、什麼事情，所以臺灣不能達到10%。對於這種說法，我真的很遺憾，沈伯洋委員本身是程序委員會的委員，這個案子在星期二的程序委員會就已經排進去了，更何況要求臺灣的軍備預算要達到臺灣GDP的10%，並不是國民黨提出來的，這是美國現在的國防部次長柯伯吉說的。有關防衛臺灣問題，他表示臺灣的國防預算應該接近GDP的10%，難道你是說，這位美國國防部4月15號已經提名通過的次長柯伯吉先生說的是謊言嗎？你是在中華民國的國會殿堂公開批評美國的國防部次長嗎？","大家都知道武力的「武」這一個字是「止戈為武」，對一個國家來講、對全民來講，我們要有很強大的軍事力量、軍事防備，不是只有武器，要打仗到最後一步的時候，我們應該都要以民為念。","從賴總統3月13號宣布賴十七條以來，還有前天接受日本新聞媒體的訪問，他竟然說國人要有最好的準備、最壞的打算，其實意思就是我們要準備打仗。如果總統真的覺得我們離戰爭已經非常近了，就必須很公開地宣示，不只是軍備的部分、不只是預算的部分，最重要是民防也要準備，所以我覺得我們需要請行政院院長好好來這裡報告，到底政府的打算是怎麼樣？用多少錢？什麼時候準備打仗？以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳玉珍委員的發言。","接下來請登記最後一位王定宇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161465","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161465","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746a2ee77e4b924cca1b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fb057babbb10d0fc445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"11:16:54 - 11:20:05","影片長度":"00:03:11","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:16:54+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:20:05+08:00","duration":191,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.805968750000002,"end":9.649718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.274093750000002,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.605968750000002,"end":26.406593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.59221875,"end":27.992843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.465343750000002,"end":31.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.097843750000003,"end":34.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.74284375,"end":39.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.95721875,"end":42.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.34909375,"end":46.18409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.50471875,"end":48.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.59721875,"end":52.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.60909375,"end":58.907843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.430968750000005,"end":74.31471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.87159375,"end":78.53346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.68534375,"end":84.03471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.52409375,"end":87.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.08471875000001,"end":98.78346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":104.06534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.38596875,"end":113.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.58284375000001,"end":115.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.48534375000001,"end":117.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.80159375000001,"end":120.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.22721875,"end":131.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.80784375000002,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.87409375000001,"end":145.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.86471875,"end":150.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.24784375000002,"end":159.22971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.28034375000001,"end":169.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.16471875000002,"end":190.87034375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.834,"end":27.499,"text":"好 謝謝主席國民黨今天突然把這個GDP說10%的這個案子把它提到第一案很多人會覺得很奇怪為何要這樣做不是有很多你們認為重要的議程什麼反戒嚴 反廢死等等之類的為什麼要把這個放在第一案呢我來告訴大家"},{"start":28.539,"end":51.639,"text":"因為才十幾個小時之前美國眾議院才剛開了一個聽證會聽證會的標題是如何阻止中國入侵台灣才十幾個小時前而已 才剛開完而已而裡面會議的結論三個證人全部都在強調台灣不可能用10%的GDP來做"},{"start":53.646,"end":74.106,"text":"那如果這個新聞出來了大家就知道國民黨這個提案本身就是一個謊言啊所以為了要怎樣呢為了要洗掉這件事情趕緊把這個案子提到最前面然後呢製造一個假象製造一個定調說台灣現在要用10%的GDP去做這些軍事的改革"},{"start":74.949,"end":97.835,"text":"再來,這個不斷式,這還暗示了什麼事情呢?他還故意暗示了,以後台灣只要增加了,那一定都是美國要求的。很抱歉,美方不但沒有這樣要求,台灣要怎麼去做,也是台灣自己的事情。而我們現在的政策,從以前到現在,討論的都是3%。為什麼可以突然冒出這個10%?"},{"start":99.255,"end":115.522,"text":"如果真的擔心台灣的國家安全那你這個提案應該改成什麼改成說中國要台灣以後不能夠抵抗以後台灣生靈塗炭請問我們該怎麼辦請行政院來做專案報告嗎這才是我們現在面臨的局勢不是嗎"},{"start":116.542,"end":130.842,"text":"更不要講說這個提案本身還故意造成軍民的對立從頭到尾的文字就故意講說今天如果用了GDP的10%這樣的不實訊息放上去之後然後提到說這樣會有排擠的效應"},{"start":131.883,"end":150.662,"text":"故意去製造說只要我們今天加強我們的國防加強我們的國安那我們的人民就會受害明明會造成人民受害的是中國的入侵中國的侵略跟中國的惡意更不要講說這兩件事情不但不是相似的它應該是相輔相成的"},{"start":151.323,"end":167.766,"text":"各位應該也都知道中國如果要拿下台灣有可能不費一兵一卒因為他有統戰因為他有滲透因為他可以大量的讓國民黨的支持者每天都在看中國內容農場的新聞國民黨的立法委員在後面在聽中國的podcast"},{"start":168.426,"end":190.015,"text":"這個才是影響我們國安如果我們今天要防止滲透除了對於立委的規範之外我們對於台灣的弱勢族群怎麼去照護讓他不要被中國見縫插針這樣的一個社會安全網也是國安的預算之一故意把軍事跟人民造成對立進而提出這樣的提案我只能說是非常惡意謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1391,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（11時17分）謝謝主席。國民黨今天突然把GDP10%的案子提到第一案，很多人會覺得很奇怪，為何要這樣做呢？不是有很多你們認為重要的議程，什麼反戒嚴、反廢死等等之類的，為什麼要把這個放在第一案呢？我來告訴大家，因為十幾個小時之前，美國眾議員才剛開了一個聽證會，聽證會的標題是「如何阻止中國入侵臺灣」，才十幾個小時前而已、才剛開完而已。而裡面會議的結論，三個證人全部都在強調，臺灣不可能用10%的GDP來做。如果這個新聞出來了，大家就知道國民黨這個提案本身就是一個謊言，所以為了要洗掉這件事情，趕緊把這個案子提到最前面，然後製造一個假象、製造一個定調，說臺灣現在要用10%的GDP去做這些軍事的改革。","再來，這個還暗示了什麼事情呢？他還故意暗示，以後臺灣只要增加了，那一定都是美國要求的。很抱歉！美方不但沒有這樣要求，臺灣要怎麼去做，也是臺灣自己的事情。而我們現在的政策，從以前到現在討論的都是3%，為什麼可以突然冒出這個10%？如果真的擔心臺灣的國家安全，那你這個提案應該改成什麼？改成中國要臺灣以後不能夠抵抗，以後臺灣生靈塗炭，請問我們該怎麼辦，請行政院來做專案報告嗎？這才是我們現在面臨的局勢，不是嗎？","更不要說，這個提案本身還故意造成軍民對立，從頭到尾的文字就故意說，今天如果用了GDP10%這樣的不實訊息放上去之後，這樣會有排擠的效應，故意去製造只要我們今天加強我們的國防、加強我們的國安，我們的人民就會受害。明明會造成人民受害的是中國的入侵、中國的侵略跟中國的惡意，更不要說這兩件事情不但不是相斥的，甚至應該是相輔相成的。各位應該也都知道，中國如果要拿下臺灣，有可能不費一兵一卒，因為他有統戰，因為他有滲透，因為他可以大量地讓國民黨的支持者每天都在看中國內容農場的新聞，國民黨的立法委員在後面聽中國的Podcast，這個才是影響我們國安。如果我們今天要防止滲透，除了對於立委的規範之外，我們對於臺灣的弱勢族群怎麼去照顧，讓他不要被中國見縫插針，這樣的社會安全網也是國安的預算之一。故意把軍事跟人民造成對立，進而提出這樣的提案，我只能說是非常惡意！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋委員的發言。","接下來請陳玉珍委員發言，王定宇委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161464","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161464","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746d8071ac2799cfd70b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fbc53c89e6150c5b455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"11:14:28 - 11:16:44","影片長度":"00:02:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:14:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:16:44+08:00","duration":136,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.57784375,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.68284375,"end":22.035968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.64346875,"end":26.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.47409375,"end":32.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.13971875,"end":43.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.445968750000006,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.002218750000004,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.267218750000005,"end":55.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.330343750000004,"end":61.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.181593750000005,"end":63.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.565343750000004,"end":66.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.00784375,"end":69.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.07909375,"end":77.94284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.09471875,"end":82.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.90409375,"end":85.09784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.48596875000001,"end":97.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.91846875,"end":104.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.79096875,"end":111.84471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.33409375000001,"end":127.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.43721875000001,"end":133.73159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.595,"end":24.525,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好114年度中央政府總預算案其中國防預算編列可能就是史上最高了有介於目前兩岸的情勢緊張"},{"start":26.627,"end":48.093,"text":"台灣又位於印太地區的第一島鏈重要的地緣的政治地位台美雙方對於台灣需要持續提升國防預算其實都有共識台灣民眾黨是注重國家財政紀律的政黨但國防預算是保衛國家的重要支出"},{"start":49.073,"end":66.21,"text":"目前提升預算到GDP3%是全民的共識但是國防部連替軍人加薪都要斤斤的計較就算要買裝備要買什麼用在哪裡國防部拖到現在"},{"start":67.071,"end":84.308,"text":"一句話一個字都沒有交代如果要大幅提升預算的話政府應該要先公布一份公開版的國家安全戰略讓民眾知道我國處在什麼樣的戰略的環境面對怎麼樣的威脅"},{"start":85.549,"end":97.263,"text":"在這種前提下軍隊要如何的打仗還有需要怎麼樣的裝備怎麼樣的編制和訓練然後才會知道具體需要多少錢"},{"start":98.956,"end":115.216,"text":"我還是呼籲國防部應該對於提升國防預算的幅度需要審視評估根據從台海威脅與政府財政狀況來做完整的完善的評估針對近日美國川普提出的"},{"start":116.478,"end":130.367,"text":"這個GDP10%國防預算這個軍備預算已經佔了GDP18已經大約是2.6兆元幾乎是我國中央政府一年的稅出針對這個問題我想行政院長應該來又會這裡向大家報告 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1386,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時14分）主席、各位委員，大家好。114年度中央政府總預算案的國防預算編列可能是史上最高了，有鑑於目前兩岸的情勢緊張，臺灣又位於印太地區第一島鏈的重要地緣政治地位，臺美雙方對於臺灣需要持續提升國防預算其實都有共識。","台灣民眾黨是注重國家財政紀律的政黨，但國防預算是保衛國家的重要支出，目前提升預算到GDP的3%全民的共識，但是國防部連替軍人加薪都要斤斤計較，就算要買裝備，要買什麼、用在哪裡，國防部拖到現在，連一句話、一個字都沒有交代。如果要大幅提升預算的話，政府應該要先公布一份公開版的國家安全戰略，讓民眾知道我國處在什麼樣的戰略環境、面對怎麼樣的威脅、在這種前提下軍隊要如何打仗，還有需要怎麼樣的裝備、怎麼樣的編制和訓練，然後才會知道具體需要多少錢。","我還是呼籲，國防部應該對於提升國防預算的幅度需要審慎評估，應從臺海威脅與政府財政狀況來做完整、完善的評估。針對近日美國川普提出軍備預算應占GDP的10%一事，GDP的10%大約2.6兆元，幾乎是我國中央政府一年的歲出，針對這個問題，我想行政院長應該來這裡向大家報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君委員的發言。","接下來請沈伯洋委員發言，陳玉珍委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161463","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161463","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7466f9a0b1d5d1220bcb8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fbcbfbb2dae5f8c4225ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"11:11:05 - 11:14:17","影片長度":"00:03:12","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:11:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:14:17+08:00","duration":192,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.64596875,"end":25.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.74846875,"end":37.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.74659375,"end":41.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.84721875,"end":51.398468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.92159375,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.727218750000006,"end":58.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.27909375,"end":60.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.000343750000006,"end":62.384093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.85659375,"end":71.59784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.27284375,"end":79.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.71471875,"end":82.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.97159375000001,"end":96.69096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.93971875000001,"end":102.59721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.76596875000001,"end":107.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.81159375,"end":110.22471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.73096875,"end":116.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.77221875000001,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.68284375,"end":126.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.66096875000001,"end":131.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.56721875,"end":139.45221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.84034375000002,"end":154.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.26409375,"end":164.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.55784375000002,"end":167.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.20721875,"end":176.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.26909375000002,"end":189.84096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.67,"end":24.204,"text":"主席各位媒體朋友各位同仁所有關注於台灣國防的好朋友們我們今天為什麼要提出希望行政院能夠來到立法院來做專案報告那當然是因為有關於防衛台灣的議題"},{"start":25.845,"end":50.848,"text":"美國的國防部次長柯伯吉他談到希望包含日本跟台灣的國防預算應該要接近GDP的10%這是先前他在被提名的時候所說的話但相對於台灣日本的石破茂總理他直接說日本人的軍費多少應該由日本人決定"},{"start":51.989,"end":69.215,"text":"那我們想要問一個問題那台灣人的軍費多少是不是也由台灣人決定那我們可以看一下目前台灣的軍費國防預算佔了GDP的2.4%左右是新台幣6470億"},{"start":72.316,"end":96.162,"text":"根據賴總統的宣示他希望把這個國防預算提升到百分之三以上那他將會是八千零四十億我們並不反對國防預算提高到百分之三以上但我們更希望在這個提升當中要注意到的是我們軍人的權益 軍人的薪資 軍人的待遇 軍人的家籍 軍人的保護"},{"start":97.97,"end":120.676,"text":"至於川普最後希望的如果我們今天從3%到5%到8%到最終目標10%跟各位報告他一共會花的當到5%的國防預算的時候就是新台幣的1.34兆這是我們在國家的預算的非常高的比例"},{"start":121.716,"end":128.488,"text":"到百分之八的時候會佔預算的2.14兆到百分之十的時候會佔台灣預算的2.68兆"},{"start":132.625,"end":153.973,"text":"那我们今年的总预算编了将近三兆其中如果2.68兆都用在国防预算的话他对于其余的我们的社会我们的教育我们的医疗是否会产生排挤我想呢行政院都有必要到立法院里面来跟各位朋友做说明"},{"start":155.305,"end":176.502,"text":"尤其是去年美国的智库里面有提到的是我们在军备上面呢很多都是采买以后不断的延宕如果我们提高了国防预算但是我们采购的包含我们的F16 Block V都是在美国出产之后但延宕了到台湾"},{"start":177.342,"end":189.02,"text":"那付出了這麼多的經費增加了GDP貨卻沒有來軍人也不夠那該如何做好國防所以我想應該讓行政院長要來立法院報告 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1379,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（11時11分）主席、各位媒體朋友、各位同仁，所有關注於臺灣國防的好朋友們。我們今天為什麼要提出希望行政院能夠來到立法院做專案報告？當然是因為有關於防衛臺灣的議題。美國的國防部次長柯伯吉談到，希望包含日本跟臺灣的國防預算應該要接近GDP的10%，這是先前他在被提名的時候所說的話。但相對於臺灣，日本的石破茂總理他直接說，日本人的軍費多少應該由日本人決定。那我們想要問一個問題，臺灣人的軍費多少是不是也由臺灣人決定？","我們可以看一下，目前臺灣的軍費、國防預算占GDP的2.4%左右，是新臺幣6,470億。根據賴總統的宣示，他希望把國防預算提升到3%以上，那將會是8,040億。我們並不反對國防預算提高到3%以上，但我們更希望在這個提升當中要注意到的是軍人的權益、軍人的薪資、軍人的待遇、軍人的加給、軍人的保護。","至於川普最後希望的，如果我們今天從3%到5%、到8%，到最終目標10%，跟各位報告一共會花費的金額，當國防預算到GDP的5%的時候，就是新臺幣1.34兆，占了我們國家預算非常高的比例；到8%的時候，會占預算的2.14兆；到10%的時候，會占臺灣預算的2.68兆。我們今年的總預算編了將近3兆，其中如果2.68兆都用在國防預算的話，對於其餘我們的社會、我們的教育、我們的醫療是否會產生排擠？我想行政院都有必要到立法院裡面來跟各位朋友做說明。","尤其是去年美國智庫有提到，我們在軍備上很多都是採買以後不斷地延宕，如果我們提高了國防預算，但是我們採購的軍備，包含F-16V Block，都是在美國出產之後延宕了到臺灣。付出了這麼多的經費，增加了GDP占比，貨卻沒有來，軍人也不夠，那該如何做好國防？所以我想應該要讓行政院長來立法院報告，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員的發言。","接下來請林憶君委員發言，沈伯洋委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161462","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161462","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7463f4e9f2bfb1b08d6b8e2d73ce5d96c5b2ccb00000b7fa9fba58ef45d272994b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"11:05:36 - 11:10:49","影片長度":"00:05:13","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T11:05:36+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T11:10:49+08:00","duration":313,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.56534375,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.62409375,"end":13.665968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.77971875,"end":16.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.88909375,"end":18.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.45846875,"end":19.825343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.12909375,"end":21.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.95159375,"end":24.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.60096875,"end":26.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.73971875,"end":33.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.70909375,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.85596875,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.235343750000006,"end":47.112218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.955968750000004,"end":54.385343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.84096875,"end":61.236593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.789093750000006,"end":69.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.79221875,"end":77.11596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.16221875000001,"end":80.05221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.59221875,"end":82.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.41034375000001,"end":88.05096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.14784375,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.48471875,"end":96.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.24784375,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.13784375,"end":99.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.63971875,"end":101.51721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.98971875000001,"end":103.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.99784375,"end":110.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.74784375,"end":119.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.67034375,"end":125.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.57659375000001,"end":136.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.15721875,"end":141.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.20284375,"end":146.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.60284375,"end":151.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.66534375,"end":156.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.13721875000002,"end":161.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.40659375,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.32159375,"end":171.90284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.35846875000001,"end":175.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.83034375,"end":181.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.51721875,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.73159375,"end":190.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.14034375,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.24971875,"end":194.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.90346875,"end":195.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.27034375000002,"end":196.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.63721875000002,"end":206.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.59784375,"end":211.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.11596875,"end":213.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.30971875,"end":228.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.85596875000002,"end":235.43721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.31471875000003,"end":238.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.35659375,"end":245.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.66346875000002,"end":246.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.57034375,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.20721875,"end":250.18596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.60784375000003,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.72159375,"end":252.73409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.25721875000002,"end":255.29909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.85596875000002,"end":257.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.91034375000004,"end":260.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.55971875,"end":264.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.10346875,"end":266.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.65596875,"end":268.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.42784375,"end":272.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.22034375000004,"end":283.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.80096875000004,"end":294.24659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.65159375,"end":295.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.83284375,"end":310.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.81784375,"end":312.04971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.585,"end":33.391,"text":"各位委員同仁以及全體國民大家好今天我在這裡希望能夠代表國民黨黨團進行說明這是一項關乎國家安全與未來發展的決議國民黨始終堅定的支持國防建設致力於確保台灣"},{"start":34.778,"end":60.948,"text":"能夠具備應對任何威脅與威嚇的能力然而我們也認為國防安全的定義與實踐必須要與時俱進不能只是停留在傳統的思維而是要更積極地擁抱新興科技以全面提升國家的韌性 競爭力這才是國安 才是國防"},{"start":62.847,"end":84.421,"text":"本席身為立法院台美國會聯誼會的副會長先進科技交流協會的會長以及曾經隨同立法院長韓國瑜所帶領的川普就職訪團的代表團成員我有幸與美方進行深入的交流在這些對話當中我們討論到許多關鍵的議題"},{"start":89.355,"end":98.21,"text":"國安在這個時代國防在這個時代已經有了更大的範疇包含海防"},{"start":99.192,"end":119.566,"text":"海巡半導體AI人工智慧無人機人形機器人量子電腦區塊鏈科技等等領域這些不僅是科技發展的前沿更是增進國家安全提升國防韌性的重要元素"},{"start":120.868,"end":145.803,"text":"這些交流讓我深刻的體悟到國防預算的應用應該納入更廣闊的視野將新興科技納入其中作為國防安全的擴大解釋同時我們也已經通過核管法的修法能源安全也是國防安全的一部分"},{"start":147.642,"end":171.375,"text":"我們同此前董事長說核綠可以共存一年將可以為台灣省下N個千億然而我們現在看到我們的能源的來源90%仰賴外部進口當極端情況發生的時候我們可能面臨斷氣斷電的風險這難道不是國安難道不是國防嗎"},{"start":176.898,"end":205.9,"text":"我們能夠透過更新興的能源科技更穩定的電力我們能夠把台灣的國防國安做得更好同時我們也認為我們剛剛所提到的海防海巡半導體AI無人機人型機器人量子電腦區塊鏈科技等等都是能夠強化我們的國防能力"},{"start":206.701,"end":227.899,"text":"在未來能夠與美國有更多的交流合作然而令人遺憾的是執政黨以及行政院長至今沒有針對國防預算要如何提升到GDP的5%、7%或者10%進行完整明確的說明"},{"start":229.142,"end":256.844,"text":"並且仍然將焦點局限在傳統的國安以及國防的思維這一次的特別條例關於國土安全的預算甚至竟然想要用限制性招標的方式來增加這樣的做法是否正確這樣的做法是否足夠答案是顯而易見的遠遠不足"},{"start":258.973,"end":271.891,"text":"目前行政單位對於傳統的國防以及國安過度聚焦在特定的領域我們沒有看到對於新興科技的理解"},{"start":273.451,"end":294.996,"text":"國防安全是一個動態演進的領域如果我們不積極的擁抱我們將難以對應日漸複雜的威脅甚至連金融都可能成為一種武器所以我們要更加的擁抱數位金融而我們沒有看到任何的說法與想法為此"},{"start":295.896,"end":308.408,"text":"在此代表國民黨黨團進行提案說明要求立法院通過決議儘速邀請行政院院長率同國防部長或者相關部會首長針對這個議題進行專案報告以上謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1373,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（11時5分）各位委員同仁以及全體國民，大家好。今天我在這裡希望能夠代表國民黨黨團進行說明，這是一項關乎國家安全與未來發展的決議。國民黨始終堅定地支持國防建設，致力於確保臺灣能夠具備應對任何威脅與威嚇的能力。然而，我們也認為，國防安全的定義與實踐，必須要與時俱進，不能只是停留在傳統的思維，而要更積極地擁抱新興科技，以全面提升國家的韌性與競爭力，這才是國安、才是國防。","本席身為立法院臺美國會聯誼會的副會長、先進科技交流協會的會長，以及曾經隨同立法院長韓國瑜所帶領的川普就職訪團的代表團成員，有幸與美方進行深入的交流，在這些對話當中，我們討論到許多關鍵的議題。國安在這個時代、國防在這個時代已經有了更大的範疇，包含海防、海巡、半導體、AI人工智慧、無人機、人形機器人、量子電腦、區塊鏈科技等等領域，這些不僅是科技發展的前沿，更是增進國家安全、提升國防韌性的重要元素。這些交流讓我深刻地體悟到，國防預算的應用應該納入更廣闊的視野，將新興科技納入其中，作為國防安全的擴大解釋，同時，我們也已經通過核管法的修法，能源安全也是國防安全的一部分。","童子賢董事長說，核綠可以共存，一年將可以為臺灣省下N個千億，然而現在看到我們能源的來源，90%仰賴外部進口，當極端情況發生的時候，我們可能面臨斷氣、斷電的風險，這難道不是國安，難道不是國防嗎？我們能夠透過更新興的能源科技、更穩定的電力，把臺灣的國防、國安做得更好。同時，我們也認為，剛剛所提到的海防、海巡、半導體、AI、無人機、人形機器人、量子電腦、區塊鏈科技等等，都能夠強化我們的國防能力，未來能夠與美國有更多的交流合作。","然而令人遺憾的是，執政黨以及行政院長至今沒有針對國防預算要如何提升到GDP的5%、7%或者10%進行完整明確的說明，並且仍然將焦點侷限在傳統的國安以及國防的思維。這一次的特別條例關於國土安全的預算，甚至竟然想要用限制性招標的方式增加，這樣的作法是否正確？這樣的作法是否足夠？答案是顯而易見的，就是遠遠不足。目前行政單位對於傳統的國防以及國安過度聚焦在特定的領域，我們沒有看到對於新興科技的理解。國防安全是一個動態演進的領域，如果我們不積極地擁抱，我們將難以對應日漸複雜的威脅，甚至連金融都可能成為一種武器，所以我們要更加地擁抱數位金融，而我們沒有看到任何的說法與想法。爰此，在此代表國民黨黨團進行提案說明，要求立法院通過決議，儘速邀請行政院院長率同國防部長或者相關部會首長針對這個議題進行專案報告，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員的發言。","報告院會，我們進行大體討論，每位委員發言時間3分鐘。","首先，請徐巧芯委員發言，林憶君委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":54,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1144801_00001"}}},{"id":"161461","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161461","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746e675307ddd152f8bb8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080ab6269e3722f5e7cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:17:13 - 09:20:04","影片長度":"00:02:51","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:17:13+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:20:04+08:00","duration":171,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.58159375,"end":86.32971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.51534375,"end":88.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.04659375,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.66221875000002,"end":147.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.05846875,"end":149.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.88096875000002,"end":165.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.21596875,"end":170.50221875}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.615,"end":31.19,"text":"院長各位親愛的家人大家好從新住民積分法通過後我一路追蹤新住民發展署的設立進度結果已經超過9個月了直到前天我在內政委員會執行時終於看清"},{"start":34.793,"end":51.875,"text":"內政部根本就是在偷劉世芳部長竟然說新住民發展署不能成立是因為三級機關的數量以馬我今天公開質問部長你知不知道中央行政機關"},{"start":53.656,"end":70.223,"text":"組織基準法三級機關的數量已從70個調整為71個發展署的編制早就納入法規了那你說的額度不足到底是你沒看懂法"},{"start":71.003,"end":87.574,"text":"還是唐篩國人 還是根本什麼都沒做家人倆包 只好亂編一個書滿了來遮羞原來這就是民進黨對新住民的態度嗎解凍預算的報告"},{"start":89.095,"end":113.855,"text":"部長輕描淡寫的說一句依照時程 何來時程有白紙黑字嗎一句話就想打發敷衍監督權我們兩百萬新住民的人口不是數字 不是口號我們是這塊土地的家人 也是主人是大家共同生活的夥伴"},{"start":114.335,"end":131.727,"text":"我們要問的不是新住民發展署能不能成立而是為什麼到現在還沒成立我們期待的是實質的權力保障不是行政的怠惰不是政治的挑票劉部長"},{"start":133.488,"end":146.576,"text":"如果你無心處理內政業務就請你別請你別再當薪水小偷了台灣人民要的就是讓你成"},{"start":148.78,"end":170.213,"text":"兌現承諾讓我們一起來監督一起發聲新住民發展署不能再等了請賴政府你別再讓內政部部長把內政部一直搞爛下去了台灣人民加油新住民加油謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":30,"blocks":[["麥委員玉珍：（9時17分）院長，各位親愛的家人，大家好！從新住民基本法通過後，我一路追蹤新住民發展署的設立進度已經超過9個月了，直到前天我在內政委員會質詢時，才終於看清內政部根本就是在拖！劉世芳部長竟然說新住民發展署不能成立，是因為三級機關的數量已滿，我今天公開質問部長，你知不知道中央行政機關組織基準法三級機關的數量，已從70個調整為71個？發展署的編制早就納入法規，你說的額度不足，到底是沒看懂法還是搪塞國人？還是根本什麼都沒做怕被人家抓包，只好亂編一個「署滿了」來遮羞？原來這就是民進黨對新住民的態度嗎？解凍預算的報告，部長輕描淡寫的說一句依照時程，何來時程？有白紙黑字嗎？一句話就想打發、敷衍監督權，我們200萬新住民的人口不是數字、不是口號，我們是這塊土地的家人，也是主人，是大家共同生活的夥伴，我們要問的不是新住民發展署能不能成立，而是為什麼到現在還沒成立？我們期待的是實質的權利保障，不是行政怠惰、不是政治跳票。劉部長，如果你無心處理內政業務，就請你別再當薪水小偷了，臺灣人民要的就是讓你兌現承諾，讓我們一起來監督，一起發聲，新住民發展署不能再等了，請賴政府別再讓內政部部長把內政部一直搞爛下去！臺灣人民加油！新住民加油！謝謝大家！"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員的發言。","目前登記國是論壇發言的委員均已發言完畢，現在休息。","休息（9時20分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}},{"id":"161460","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161460","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7460643591e2243447eb8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080a5b23da5efbb1608e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"09:13:50 - 09:17:03","影片長度":"00:03:13","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:13:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:17:03+08:00","duration":193,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.83096875,"end":13.800968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.138468750000001,"end":43.939718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.47971875,"end":52.12409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.360343750000006,"end":61.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.367218750000006,"end":109.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.37659375000001,"end":112.33409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.04284375,"end":127.92659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.44971875000002,"end":137.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.27534375000002,"end":159.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.30971875,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.46909375,"end":167.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.15659375,"end":191.47784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.834,"end":32.815,"text":"主席各位同仁還有各位同學大家早回顧賴清德總統一年來的施政表現內政上無能為力外交上進退失據兩岸關係更是火上加油導致台海空前的局勢緊張並在多項關鍵的議題上暴露出領導風格的局限與政策方向的偏差"},{"start":33.576,"end":61.129,"text":"根據最新的賴清德總統的就職週年的滿意度調查我們看到高達55%的民眾是不滿意的而滿意度只有32%我們也可以看到對賴清德總統未來施政表現有57%的民眾沒有信心打擊詐騙 司法改革 拼經濟表現都有超過五成多的不滿意度而近六成的民眾也不支持大罷免"},{"start":62.41,"end":66.832,"text":"而我們可以看到呢民怨逐步在高漲但是賴清德總統仍選擇築起對抗民意的高牆壟斷政治與司法的權力還對在野黨發動大罷免大搜索大羈押只要不認就羈押押到你認為止"},{"start":79.838,"end":108.877,"text":"但身為賴清德愛將的陳忠彥性招待案卻能三度脫身我們看到的是台灣民主出現空前的危機而更令人震驚的是民進黨一邊抹黑在野黨親共賣台自己卻在總統府行政院外交部國安會民進黨部養共諜這種雙標的行徑不僅令人不齒更徹底揭穿真正造成國安破口的是民進黨"},{"start":110.439,"end":126.331,"text":"而綠共就在民進黨賴清德個性剛病格局狹隘這一年來的表現令人失望居住正義停滯不前青年低薪問題沒有解決難怪20到29歲的年輕人滿意度只有26%"},{"start":128.533,"end":152.031,"text":"而賴政府不僅沒有開創新局反而故步自封還越做越爛難怪他的執政成績是死當而賴清德總統在面對在野黨監督的時候處處表現出總統和行政權制上的威權獨裁心態毫無承受民主制度應有的尊重與溝通導致政策推動困難民進黨長期以來的野蠻腐敗"},{"start":155.034,"end":174.384,"text":"反改革的形象使賴清德總統的誠信與能力備受質疑這不僅是他個人的危機更是整個執政團隊的嚴重警訊總結這一年來賴清德政府不僅無能更令人憂心的是他正一步步將台灣帶向獨裁戰爭與崩壞的深淵"},{"start":178.346,"end":190.792,"text":"他沒有謀略卻充滿傲氣沒有改革卻只會鬥爭沒有民意基礎卻想操縱整個國家的命運賴清德總統又繼續執迷不悟將會是台灣史上最黑暗的災難"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":25,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時14分）主席、各位同仁，還有各位同學，大家早。回顧賴清德總統一年來的施政表現，內政上無能為力，外交上進退失據，兩岸關係更是火上加油，導致臺海空前的局勢緊張，並在多項的議題上，暴露出領導風格的侷限與政策方向的偏差。根據賴清德總統就職週年的最新滿意度調查，我們看到高達55%的民眾是不滿意的，而滿意度只有32%，我們也可以看到對賴清德總統未來施政表現，有57%的民眾沒有信心，打擊詐騙、司法改革、拼經濟的表現都有超過五成多的不滿意度，而近六成的民眾也不支持大罷免，我們看到民怨逐步高漲，但是賴清德總統仍選擇築起對抗民意的高牆，壟斷政治與司法的權力，還對在野黨發動大罷免、大搜索、大羈押，只要不認就羈押，押到你認為止。但身為賴清德愛將的陳宗彥性招待案卻能三度脫身，我們看到的是臺灣民主出現空前的危機。更令人震驚的是，民進黨一邊抹黑在野黨親共賣臺，自己卻在總統府、行政院、外交部、國安會、民進黨部養共諜，這種雙標的行徑不僅令人不齒，更徹底揭穿真正造成國安破口的是民進黨，綠共就在民進黨。","賴清德個性剛愎、格局狹隘，這一年來的表現令人失望，居住正義停滯不前，青年低薪問題沒有解決，難怪20到29歲的年輕人滿意度只有26%，賴政府不僅沒有開創新局反而故步自封，還越做越爛，難怪他的執政成績是死當。賴清德總統面對在野黨監督的時候，處處表現出總統和行政權至上的威權獨裁心態，毫無成熟民主制度應有的尊重與溝通，導致政策推動困難，民進黨長期以來的野蠻、腐敗、反改革的形象，使賴清德總統的誠信與能力備受質疑，這不僅是他個人的危機，更是整個執政團隊的嚴重警訊。","總結這一年來，賴清德政府不僅無能，更令人憂心的是，他正一步步將臺灣帶上獨裁、戰爭與崩壞的深淵，他沒有謀略卻充滿傲氣，沒有改革卻只會鬥爭，沒有民意基礎卻想操縱整個國家的命運，賴清德總統若繼續執迷不悟，將會是臺灣史上最黑暗的災難。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的發言。","接下來，請登記最後一位麥玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}},{"id":"161459","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161459","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7461fe9f9307890f081b8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080a81d98ccfcd6d1fbb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:10:50 - 09:13:39","影片長度":"00:02:49","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:10:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:13:39+08:00","duration":169,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":8.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.87346875,"end":12.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.547843750000002,"end":16.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.80471875,"end":17.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.27284375,"end":27.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.68159375000002,"end":131.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.68096875,"end":163.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.80284375000002,"end":169.55721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.168,"end":26.955,"text":"主席各位委員還有媒體朋友以及樓上的同學們大家早安大家好下週就是賴清德總統即將就任一週年讓我們現在依依跟電視機前面的朋友們來細數他這一年來到底做了哪些福國利民的政績呢"},{"start":129.565,"end":130.126,"text":"發言時間剩下一分鐘"},{"start":160.714,"end":168.022,"text":"不好意思本席想了三分鐘但我想不出賴清德這一年來到底做了什麼豐功偉業謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":20,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時10分）主席、各位委員，還有媒體朋友以及樓上的同學們，大家早安、大家好。下週就是賴清德總統即將就任一週年，讓我們現在跟電視機前面的朋友們一一來細數他這一年來到底做了哪些福國利民的政績呢？","不好意思，本席想了3分鐘，但我想不出賴清德總統這一年來到底做了什麼豐功偉業，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員。","接下來請許宇甄委員發言，麥玉珍委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}},{"id":"161458","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161458","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746c4bbdc3b3dda4f3cb8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080ab5c8fdb204d45c695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:07:06 - 09:10:24","影片長度":"00:03:18","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:07:06+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:10:24+08:00","duration":198,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.98284375,"end":13.699718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.94846875,"end":15.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.06221875,"end":17.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.37846875,"end":20.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.141593750000002,"end":30.422843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.50721875,"end":41.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.96534375,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.86721875,"end":64.35846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.72971875,"end":69.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.24346875,"end":108.92534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.58346875000001,"end":115.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.96221875,"end":182.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.98971875,"end":192.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.32159375,"end":194.11034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.001,"end":19.98,"text":"主席 府會同仁 媒體朋友 大家好核管法修法過關台灣不再被非核神主牌綁架"},{"start":21.175,"end":40.911,"text":"今天本市要特别针对此周核子反应器设施管制法修正案的三读通过所带来的重大意义提出说明这项修法不仅让台湾核能设施的管理制度更加完善更为国家未来的能源政策的稳定安全与发展打开了全新的法治空间"},{"start":42.252,"end":69.765,"text":"臺灣的能源政策長期受到非核家園意識形態的影響缺乏科學與理性的討論導致能源結構失衡電力供應不穩電價不斷上升面對AI產業半導體先進製程帶來的巨量用電需求我們再也不能忽視核能在能源穩定性中重要的角色此次修法正是回應現實的需求重建能源韌性的重要一步"},{"start":71.351,"end":90.822,"text":"此次修法的核心是针对核子反应器设施运转执照的管理机制进行了系统性的调整根据新法的规定核能设施的运转执照有效期间是最长40年但如果设备安全性能良好经营者还可以在执照借满前依法申请换照"},{"start":91.802,"end":108.039,"text":"經主管機關審核確認無安全顧慮以後,換發的運轉執照可延長20年。這樣的修法不僅導入了國際間通行的核電廠研議制度,也為台灣未來核三的研議提出了一些討論。"},{"start":110.1,"end":133.332,"text":"來評估新型小型模組化核能成為現在我們再往前一步很重要的步驟提供了我們也針對這次的修法提供了法治的依據另外一個核心則是進一步強化了核能設施運轉前的安全門檻法條明定核子反應設施興建完成後必須要經過主管經關審核中期安全分析報告"},{"start":133.972,"end":148.625,"text":"新建期间的检查改善结果以及系统功能试验合格才能够填装燃料然后在燃料填装后也必须要通过主管机关的功率试验审核并取得运转执照才能够运转"},{"start":149.085,"end":171.502,"text":"这不仅提高了核电厂运转的安全性也回应了社会大众对核能安全的高度关切过去民进党一直说无法可管但是呢因此而回避了电厂研议的讨论但现在法院已经明确未来核电厂能够在安全无异的情况下能够延续运转回归到科学评"},{"start":172.582,"end":191.834,"text":"及專業審查不再被政治操作綁架這也證明了非核家園口號式的政策已經難以因應台灣目前的能源現實台灣不應該繼續走一條電力不穩電價飆漲碳排難降的困局之路能源政策必須要回歸理性與科學的討論兼顧供電穩定"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":15,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（9時7分）主席、府會同仁、媒體朋友，大家好。核管法修法過關，臺灣不再被非核神主牌綁架，今天本席要特別針對此週核子反應器設施管制法修正案三讀通過所帶來的重大意義提出說明，這項修法不僅讓臺灣核能設施的管理制度更加完善，更為國家未來能源政策的穩定、安全與發展，打開了全新的法治空間。臺灣能源政策長期受到非核家園意識型態的影響，缺乏科學與理性的討論，導致能源結構失衡、電力供應不穩、電價不斷上升，面對AI產業半導體先進製程帶來的巨量用電需求，我們再也不能忽視核能在能源穩定性中重要的角色，此次修法正是回應現實的需求，重建能源韌性的重要一步。","此次修法的核心是針對核子反應器設施運轉執照的管理機制進行系統性的調整，根據新法的規定，核能設施的運轉執照有效期間最長是40年，但如果設備安全性能良好，經營者還可以在執照屆滿前依法申請換照，經主管機關審核確認無安全顧慮以後，換發的運轉執照可再延長20年。這樣的修法不僅導入國際間通行的核電廠延役制度，也為臺灣未來核三的延役提出一些討論，來評估新型、小型模組化核能成為我們再往前一步很重要的步驟，我們也針對這次的修法提供法制的依據；另外一個核心則是進一步強化核能設施運轉前的安全門檻，法條明定核子反應設施興建完成後，必須經過主管機關審核中期安全分析報告、興建期間的檢查改善結果，以及系統功能試驗合格，才能夠裝填燃料，在燃料裝填後也必須通過主管機關的功率試驗審核，並取得運轉執照才能夠運轉，這不僅提高核電廠運轉的安全性，也回應了社會大眾對核能安全的高度關切。","過去民進黨一直說無法可管，因此而迴避電廠延役的討論，但現在法源已經明確，未來核電廠能夠在安全無虞的情況下延續運轉，回歸到科學評估及專業審查，不再被政治操作綁架，這也證明了非核家園口號式的政策，已經難以因應臺灣目前的能源現實，臺灣不應該繼續走一條電力不穩、電價飆漲、碳排難降的困局之路，能源政策必須要回歸理性與科學的討論，兼顧供電穩定、產業發展與環境永續，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員的發言。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是來自立法委員羅智強委員邀請的美國加州聖蓋博市的市長及議員，Welcome to the Legislative Yuan. Welcome, Mayor, thank you.","接下來請陳菁徽委員發言，許宇甄委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}},{"id":"161457","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161457","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff7465408740a451e8d6cb8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080a9f750fbe189a9eba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"09:03:57 - 09:06:56","影片長度":"00:02:59","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:03:57+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:06:56+08:00","duration":179,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.818468750000001,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.662218750000001,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.585968750000003,"end":14.273468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":20.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.78721875,"end":22.508468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.94721875,"end":27.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.891593750000002,"end":30.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.574718750000002,"end":34.017218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.01284375,"end":38.877218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.13034375,"end":40.547843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.969718750000006,"end":42.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.758468750000006,"end":45.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.80846875,"end":50.470343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.80784375,"end":54.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.63846875,"end":61.20284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.742843750000006,"end":66.56909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.32846875,"end":69.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.70784375000001,"end":72.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":72.74534375,"end":77.26784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.34784375000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.82784375,"end":87.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.51096875,"end":93.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.83909375,"end":97.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.02409375,"end":102.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.95159375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.35596875,"end":114.00471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.29159375,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.33221875000001,"end":128.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.05721875,"end":130.82909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.08221875,"end":137.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.95034375,"end":138.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.82784375,"end":149.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.44221875000002,"end":157.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.47034375,"end":161.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.14909375000002,"end":168.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.93284375000002,"end":175.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.64909375000002,"end":176.49284375000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.861,"end":33.488,"text":"院長各位同仁大家好凱開安讓我們看見責任的模糊以及長期被忽略的社福漏洞5月13日的時候台北地院針對凱開安作出判決劉彩萱被判無期徒刑劉若琳被判處18年而福聯盟在事後表示感到萬分的愧疚"},{"start":35.083,"end":44.114,"text":"也向凱凱道歉說抱歉讓您受苦了但我們要問一句一句道歉能讓凱凱復生嗎"},{"start":47.177,"end":66.075,"text":"凱凱母親在懷孕期間便已經打算出養了社福中心將個案轉接到兒童福利聯盟而根據兒少原則安置原則孩子應優先安置到寄養家庭由專業程度遠高於一般的居家保母的寄養父母來收養"},{"start":67.406,"end":82.094,"text":"但現實是什麼呢現實是寄養家庭嚴重不足持續湧現的個案數讓社工幾乎是疲於奔命一個社工甚至常常要負責超過80位居家保姆的訪視"},{"start":85.058,"end":105.505,"text":"應用額案的照樣來源有三第一個是家屬親屬第二個是居家保姆第三個是托育中心政府面對額虐的問題卻總是重點錯置社會安全網的一個重點不該是只放在看得見的地方而是應該去加強那些看不見的盲點"},{"start":107.421,"end":127.615,"text":"我們要檢討政府在管理與監督體系當中 是不是出現了求援兼裁判的情況過去幾年 標案總是集中在特定的社福團體卻一再爆出訪視疏漏 包庇案件 甚至是嚴重失職的狀況這些問題不能用一句 我們很抱歉就帶過了"},{"start":129.116,"end":156.896,"text":"我們需要系統性的改革第一個強化家庭的親子教育在內的兒少個案風險評估跟風險管制機制第二提升寄養家庭的招募跟補助擴充安置來源第三調整社工的工作內容跟範圍還有人力讓他們真正的落實仿試第四對長期監督把持監督員失能的團體要重新檢查這個他的公信力還有合約的資格"},{"start":158.673,"end":176.198,"text":"這是我們的良心考驗的時候了孩子不能等凱凱也不應該要白白的犧牲孩子尤其是他不再能夠復生了那我們一起來守護兒少做出正確的行動守護兒少做正確的行動謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":10,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時4分）院長、各位同仁，大家好。剴剴案讓我們看見責任的模糊以及長期被忽略的社福漏洞。5月13日的時候，臺北地院針對剴剴案作出判決，劉彩萱被判無期徒刑，劉若琳被判處18年。兒福聯盟在事後表示感到萬分的愧疚，也向剴剴道歉，說：抱歉，讓你受苦了！但我們要問一句：一句道歉能讓剴剴復生嗎？","剴剴母親在懷孕期間就已經打算出養了，社福中心將個案轉介到兒童福利聯盟，而根據兒少安置原則，孩子應優先安置到寄養家庭，由專業程度遠高於一般居家保母的寄養父母來收養，但現實是什麼呢？現實是寄養家庭嚴重不足，持續湧現的個案數，讓社工幾乎是疲於奔命，一個社工甚至常常要負責超過80位居家保母的訪視。嬰幼兒案的照養來源有三，第一個是親屬，第二個是居家保母，第三個是托育中心，政府面對兒虐的問題卻總是重點錯置，社會安全網的重點不該是只放在看得見的地方，而是應該去加強那些看不見的盲點。我們要檢討政府在管理與監督體系當中，是不是出現了球員兼裁判的情況，過去幾年標案總是集中在特定的社福團體，卻一再的爆出訪視疏漏、包庇案件，甚至是嚴重失職的狀況，這些問題不能用一句「我們很抱歉」就帶過了。我們需要系統性的改革，第一、強化家庭親子教育在內的兒少個案風險評估跟風險管制機制；第二、提升寄養家庭的招募跟補助來擴充安置來源；第三、調整社工的工作內容、範圍及人力，讓他們真正能夠落實訪視；第四、對於長期把持監督權卻失能的團體，要重新檢查它的公信力，還有合約的資格。這是我們良心考驗的時候了，孩子不能等，剴剴也不應該白白犧牲，尤其孩子已經不能復生了，讓我們一起來守護兒少，做出正確的行動！謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員的發言。","接下來請林倩綺委員發言，陳菁徽委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}},{"id":"161456","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161456","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fe07dedb5caff746d9ae9795ace90451b8e2d73ce5d96c5bef0c98da2a4a080a58fff7e47292a95a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"09:00:20 - 09:03:36","影片長度":"00:03:16","會議時間":"2025-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員許宇甄、羅智強、葛如鈞等52人擬具公投提案主文為：「賴清德總統定位對岸為境外敵對勢力，人民擔心兩岸進入準戰爭狀態。你是否同意政府應避免戰爭，不讓台灣變成實施軍事戒嚴、青年喪命且家園被毀的烏克蘭？」請公決案等16案。二、5月16日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月20日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-05-16","start_time":"2025-05-16T09:00:20+08:00","end_time":"2025-05-16T09:03:36+08:00","duration":196,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第3會期第12次會議","id":"院會-11-3-12","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":3,"sessionTimes":12},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.771593750000001,"end":13.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.598468750000002,"end":16.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.12534375,"end":18.137843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.59346875,"end":20.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.70284375,"end":25.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.95096875,"end":31.772843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.51534375,"end":34.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.23221875,"end":36.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.08409375,"end":43.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.97346875,"end":51.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.87096875,"end":53.67659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.30096875,"end":56.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.102218750000006,"end":58.688468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.27909375,"end":63.109718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.244718750000004,"end":65.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.30346875000001,"end":68.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.15096875,"end":69.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.46721875,"end":73.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.77471875,"end":80.01846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.18721875,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.17721875000001,"end":91.83096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.16846875,"end":101.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.97284375000001,"end":104.50409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.99346875,"end":107.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.33471875000001,"end":110.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.37659375000001,"end":113.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.13971875,"end":117.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.76784375000001,"end":127.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.41596875000002,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.34784375,"end":135.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.75659375,"end":138.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.68846875,"end":141.51096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.79784375,"end":142.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.55284375000002,"end":145.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.44284375,"end":147.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.92346875,"end":151.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.93971875,"end":158.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.52096875,"end":161.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.92971875,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.84846875000002,"end":170.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.10971875,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.21034375000002,"end":176.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.96534375000002,"end":179.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.86346875,"end":182.73659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.93909375,"end":186.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.12409375000001,"end":192.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.92909375000002,"end":194.46471875}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.81,"end":35.716,"text":"院長各位同仁各位媒體先進大家早安大家好賴清德總統執政即將滿一週年此時應該是展現政績收獲民眾支持的時刻然而一份又一份的民調卻狠狠打臉這位強調合作的總統根據日前公布的全國性民調賴清德總統幾乎墊底"},{"start":38.117,"end":58.5,"text":"僅略勝當年陷入貪汙風暴的前總統陳水扁這份民調不是在野黨的指控而是人民用數據對賴清德總統執政的真實評價賴總統去年就職的時候說三黨不過半是人民的選擇我們要有合作的信念"},{"start":59.321,"end":76.413,"text":"但一年過去了,我們看見的不是謙卑與合作,而是不斷操縱對立,肆意攻擊在野黨的政治手段。在賴總統執政週年之際,理應釋放善意,結合在野力量,共同面對美國關稅壓力及兩岸緊張局勢。"},{"start":80.316,"end":106.084,"text":"近日美國外交事務Foreign Affairs刊登華府智庫專家專文指出台海爆發戰爭的風險很高而且還在升高本席期盼在面對攸關全民安危的兩岸關係賴總統應以國家安全為重重新調整兩岸政策降低兩岸日益緊繃的情勢化解可能面對的開戰風險"},{"start":108.385,"end":128.986,"text":"但是令本席遺憾的是當在野黨立委在國會發出監督聲音時賴總統卻未秉持憲政合作的精神反而公開操作政治對立以執政黨主席掀起大罷免風潮將國家治理推向政黨之間的對抗的泥沼這種將反對意見視為敵人的政治邏輯"},{"start":132.389,"end":142.136,"text":"不僅與民主精神背道而馳更加劇台灣社會內部的撕裂感民主的核心是節制而不是濫權"},{"start":143.598,"end":170.229,"text":"本席呼籲賴清德總統應尊重民意的選擇而不應面對在野黨監督政府施政時反而用政治動員煽動民粹發起大罷免進一步撕裂台灣在野黨立委用立法權來制衡行政權就被扣上毀憲亂政的帽子這樣的思維已經背離了民主的精神最後本席相信"},{"start":171.169,"end":193.206,"text":"民眾要的是團結與務實解決問題的總統而不是製造對立做政治清算與權力鬥爭的總統請賴總統放下權力的執著正視物價高漲青年低薪產業困境與居住壓力這些人民在乎的民生問題才是施政的核心賴總統您聽到了嗎"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（9時）院長、各位同仁、各位媒體先進，大家早安、大家好。賴清德總統執政即將滿一週年，此時應該是展現政績，收獲民眾支持的時刻，然而一份又一份的民調卻狠狠打臉這位強調合作的總統。根據日前公布的全國性民調，賴清德總統幾乎墊底，僅略勝當年陷入執政貪污風暴的前總統陳水扁，這份民調不是在野黨的指控，而是人民用數據對賴清德總統執政的真實評價。","賴總統去年就職的時候說，三黨不過半是人民的選擇，我們要有合作的信念。但一年過去了，我們看見的不是謙卑與合作，而是不斷操縱對立，肆意攻擊在野黨的政治手段。在賴總統執政週年之際，理應釋放善意，結合在野力量，共同面對美國關稅壓力及兩岸緊張局勢。今日「外交事務」（Foreign Affairs）刊登華府智庫專家專文指出，臺海爆發戰爭的風險很高，而且還在升高。本席期盼在面對攸關全民安危的兩岸關係，賴總統應以國家安全為重，重新調整兩岸政策，降低兩岸日益緊繃的情勢，化解可能面對的開戰風險。但是令本席遺憾的是，當在野黨立委在國會發出監督聲音時，賴總統卻未秉持憲政合作的精神，反而公開操作政治對立，以執政黨主席掀起大罷免風潮，將國家治理推向政黨之間對抗的泥沼。這種將反對意見視為敵人的政治邏輯不僅與民主精神背道而馳，更加劇臺灣社會內部的撕裂感。民主的核心是節制，而不是濫權！本席呼籲賴清德總統應尊重民意的選擇，而不應面對在野黨監督政府施政時，反而用政治動員煽動民粹，發起大罷免，進一步撕裂臺灣。在野黨立委用立法權來制衡行政權就被扣上毀憲亂政的帽子，這樣的思維已經背離了民主的精神。","最後，本席相信民眾要的是團結與務實解決問題的總統，而不是製造對立、做政治清算與權力鬥爭的總統，請賴總統放下權力的執著，正視物價高漲、青年低薪、產業困境與居住壓力，這些人民在乎的民生問題才是施政的核心。賴總統您聽到了嗎？"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的發言。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁邊的是來自臺北市幼華高中的所有同學，歡迎各位同學，未來的國家棟樑，歡迎你們！","接下來請劉書彬委員發言，林倩綺委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":170,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-12","speakers":["韓國瑜","張智倫","劉書彬","林倩綺","陳菁徽","許宇甄","麥玉珍"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1144801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第12次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1144801_00008"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}