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谢谢各位党团 谢谢"},{"start":1872.146,"end":1889.716,"text":"黨團幹部請坐 特別跟台灣民眾黨團民進黨團報告一下因為總統府秘書長帶來大法官被提名現在正在拜訪國民黨黨團所以國民黨黨團的總召以及書記長正在接待由首席副書記長羅志強委員來出席所以我們這個會議就繼續進行我們把握有限的時間首先要介紹今天"},{"start":1897.2,"end":1921.583,"text":"來我們院裡面參與協商的第一位是我們司法院副理事長王副理事長熱情歡迎您第二位是我們法務部政務次長黃次長歡迎您以及各位工作夥伴謝謝跟各位黨面報告一下今天我們討論的事項第一案法院組織法的協商第二點要跟大家報告一下這個法案總共有五條昨天的黨團協商中第86條"},{"start":1922.924,"end":1929.93,"text":"第九十一條、九十三條大家比較有共識這邊我們就把條文先發下去請各黨團來參考第三點"},{"start":1933.291,"end":1957.375,"text":"我們今天就是針對還沒有達成共識的第90條以及第115條條文進行協商第4點因為我們今天下午5點鐘要處理這個條文換言之還要加上一些委員的發言時間希望今天這個朝野協商能夠掌握大家寶貴的時間達到一個有效的共識如果沒辦法達到共識的話我們還是一樣大概在"},{"start":1958.826,"end":1983.635,"text":"超越協商一個多一個小時到一個半小時之後我們就必須喊卡了我們要進到院裡面去因為很多委員都有寶貴的意見這點請各位所有與會的黨團幹部跟各位列席官員能夠了解那首先我們等一下發言的次序咧我們先請提案的台灣民眾黨團發言完畢我們請司法院法務部表達意見再請民進黨團國民黨團表達意見這樣我們比較有次序好不好首先我們請黃國昌總召請發言"},{"start":1995.581,"end":2002.651,"text":"謝謝院長 院長辛苦了召集這一次的黨團協商我想各個黨團"},{"start":2004.181,"end":2031.247,"text":"立場或許有不一致但政治上面我們還是本於最大的善意跟誠意雖然昨天我們有歷經過來依照院會交付給台灣民眾黨黨團的任務由我們來召集協商昨天下午我也舉行了協商那其實我覺得昨天下午對整個法案的討論跟進度我覺得是有"},{"start":2032.887,"end":2052.075,"text":"蠻積極正面的意義包括了說院長剛剛所提到昨天我們的整個協商有一些初步的結論那個初步的結論包括了說有三個條文我們都很尊重司法院的意見各個黨團"},{"start":2053.996,"end":2060.531,"text":"基本上最起碼在昨天也獲知了共識有三個條文那應該是"},{"start":2065.669,"end":2090.919,"text":"算是有共識啦那當然今天其他黨團會不會有其他寶貴的意見我們基本上都尊重那大家現在比較關心的聚焦的條文是第90條的規定那第90條的規定基本上我們可以把它拆解成兩個大的部分一個大的部分是法律審的處理"},{"start":2092.748,"end":2108.99,"text":"那法律省的處理呢,台灣民眾黨我們所提案的內容基本上原則上是公開型訴訟的延遲辯論及裁判宣示所謂的錄音錄影可以以適當的方式"},{"start":2111.501,"end":2139.134,"text":"來實施公開播送當然我們有但書但書我們如果涉及到國家安全公共秩序善良風俗或者是造成個人生命身體隱私或營業秘密重大損害之餘者可以裁定不予公開播送也就是在整個規範的體力上面採取的是原則上原則上公開那例外的時候不公開的方式"},{"start":2140.239,"end":2160.091,"text":"那昨天在黨團協商的時候其實我也有公開的請教我們的司法院目前我國的最高法院真的有在行言詞辯論的案子一年以去年來講大概是十件只有十個案子"},{"start":2161.298,"end":2184.193,"text":"有形公開的延遲辯論所以以雖然原則上面公開好像案件量會很大但是你實際上面的考慮我國最高法院2024年有形延遲辯論的案子只有10件那第二個部分是事實審的部分"},{"start":2185.756,"end":2207.127,"text":"40省的部分高等法院跟地方法院原則上我們所做的錄音錄影是不會公開播送的原則上是採取禁止的態度另外的時候有開放涉及到重大的公共利益或社會矚目的案件"},{"start":2208.291,"end":2228.443,"text":"我們可以考量跟公共利益的關係審判程序的公平性程序參與人及他人權益的均衡維護等一切狀況就公開行延遲辯論及裁判的宣示所謂的錄音錄影例外的可以公開"},{"start":2230.563,"end":2251.992,"text":"那在例外公開的情況之下我們針對有關於會涉及到一些本來性質上面就不適合公開的案件就把他排除在外因為有很多可能婦女團體兒少團體他們關心的一些案件他目前本來"},{"start":2253.171,"end":2278.192,"text":"我們在法院的實際上面的進行就是以不公開法庭的方式這當然不在法庭直播或者是說比較精準的用法是說錄音錄影以適當的方式來公開播送的範圍這個我想先說明一下那你說什麼樣的案件重大的公益或社會矚目的案件其實"},{"start":2279.949,"end":2307.39,"text":"在我國過去司法的實務上面在法律沒有授權的情況下有沒有法官在具體的個案當中裁定公開播送其實是有的我相信司法院應該也很清楚像在蘇炳坤在審的案件當中陳審的法官認為這個案件涉及到"},{"start":2308.956,"end":2319.884,"text":"重大的公共利益他就裁定公開播售那當然後來司法院有去勸阻那個法官說不要這樣做因為"},{"start":2321.395,"end":2350.436,"text":"我們相關的規範還沒有建立在沒有法律授權的基礎之下法官有沒有權限去做這樣子的裁定那好像 司法院這邊有不太一樣的看法那但是我們最起碼可以肯認一件事情 肯認什麼事情法官在個案當中他針對個案所有利害關係的權衡他認為公開播送"},{"start":2351.82,"end":2378.655,"text":"他具有重大的公共利益的時候他是可以做這個裁定的那我們例外公開的情況之下在我們黨團所提出的法條設計當中我們把決定的權限交給法院我在裡面沒有建立任何的剛性規則什麼叫剛性規則就是某一種特定類型的案件你一定要公開 沒有沒有做這樣子的規定"},{"start":2380.063,"end":2398.801,"text":"那過去 事實上大家也可以想像的到說有很多可能會涉及到重要的公益或社會矚目的案件譬如說有關於2004年的時候總統大選結束了以後所引發的訴訟對於一個國家的穩定對於整個"},{"start":2405.639,"end":2432.966,"text":"選舉正當性的維持民主正當性的維持這個絕對它所涉及的公共利益非常非常的高那即使是如此我們都沒有設定任何剛性的規則把該考慮的因素把它如列出來了以後我們讓法官在個案當中他可以來加以決定例外是不是應該予以公開所以"},{"start":2436.029,"end":2449.317,"text":"針對我們所提出來的條文也參酌了在公聽會的時候有各方面的專家所提出的寶貴的意見不管是隱私權的保護"},{"start":2450.894,"end":2463.958,"text":"或者是說證人的保護等等我們在相應的條文當中都已經有做了一些清楚的設計出來那我們希望能夠實現的就是讓陽光照進法庭"},{"start":2471.154,"end":2497.336,"text":"這不是什麼人民公審昨天我在黨團協商的時候我也清楚的跟大家報告這不是要人民當審判者更何況有很多案子搞不好或現實上台灣社會都看得到在偵查階段的時候在偵查階段的時候就莫名其妙的有特定的媒體啊都可以做獨家的報導"},{"start":2500.168,"end":2501.094,"text":"那什麼叫做公審"},{"start":2503.275,"end":2531.961,"text":"審判的還是法官審判的還是法官那但是有關於司法權公正行使的這件事情他本來就應該要接受社會公眾的監督那在事實審的部分我們也知道案件量很大我們也不是說什麼案子全部都要直播我們一開始採取的第一步相對而言是一個非常溫和"},{"start":2533.345,"end":2559.565,"text":"非常理性非常慎重的第一步那這個是台灣民眾黨黨團我們在提出這個案子的時候我們的初衷跟我們希望達成的目的誠如許一秀大法官所說的他也是當初2017年世改國事會議在處理有關於法庭直播這個分組的召集人"},{"start":2560.643,"end":2578.848,"text":"那個時候在那個小組裡面15位包括法律界非常敬重的李念祖律師嚴絕安教授包括其他非法律人所組成因為我們那時候斯卡國社會議你不能永遠都是法律人自己在決定嘛"},{"start":2579.639,"end":2608.885,"text":"那這樣子的話司法是為了人民而存在人民的司法這樣的口號就會變得毫無意義也沒有辦法實際上面啊都落實那這樣子中整社會各界的意見那個時候所做出來的一些決議那很遺憾2017年決議做出來以後根本沒落實根本沒有落實那我們現在只是把那個時候所做成的決議我們進一步把它建立法制化的一個基準"},{"start":2610.3,"end":2631.887,"text":"讓法官在各案進行裁判的時候譬如說像林孟煌法官他為什麼在蘇秉坤的那個案子即使沒有法律的授權當然法官他認為在那個時候的法院組織法下他已經有那個權限去做那樣的事情那那個時候的法律狀態的爭議我們也要去爭論"},{"start":2633.434,"end":2646.714,"text":"如果沒有今天的這個條文在現行的法院組織法下面法官可不可以做這樣的事情我今天沒有要挑起這個法律爭論但當初何義廷的法官"},{"start":2649.094,"end":2668.083,"text":"認為依照現行法院組織法的規定他們就有權限去做這樣的裁定只是司法院認為沒有司法院去勸阻他們說不要不要公開所以那個時候那一次的公開變成是一個半套式的公開什麼叫半套式的公開最後裁判宣示的時候有"},{"start":2669.147,"end":2687.638,"text":"有放記者進去拍整個歷程那但前面在更審的時候社會大眾可更關心的那特別是在冤錯案的矯正這件事情上面怎麼會發生這麼重大的錯誤讓一個無辜的人"},{"start":2690.044,"end":2705.224,"text":"蒙受這樣的不排之淵平白做了那麼多年的牢這個絕對不是事後的國家願意賠償就可以處理的事情我相信全體的法律人大家心裡都要有這樣子"},{"start":2706.072,"end":2726.599,"text":"的一個替力那因此我們提出了這樣子的一個修正協議那以上先跟院長還有各位黨團的代表做以上的說明跟報告謝謝好 謝謝提案的台灣民眾黨團黃榮昭提出的說明我們接下來請司法院表達意見法務部請準備請司法院王副民事長請"},{"start":2728.545,"end":2755.178,"text":"主席 各位委員非常榮幸代表司法院來表達本院的立場關於草案的86條 91條跟93條本院是同意協商意見的至於90條修法司法院認為法庭直播有侵害公眾審判侵害基本權之餘所以在此鄭重的表達反對的立場"},{"start":2756.238,"end":2781.376,"text":"那我首先要說明的是說106年的司改國是會議呢他的決議內容是什麼他是要求司法院呢對於法庭直播的條件跟範圍呢在一年內加以研議那所以司法院那但是他不是施行不是要求司法院就是要實行了那司法院經過一連串很嚴謹很負責的研議呢我們經過了委託案"},{"start":2785.419,"end":2806.247,"text":"研討會、公聽會還有法規草案的一個諮詢會議那參加表達意見的學者還有實務專家不下100人次但是絕大部分是提出了疑慮所以我們得到的結論是法庭直播它有太多還有複雜的問題必須要去解決"},{"start":2808.928,"end":2832.457,"text":"那施行會弊端大於利益因此司法院才沒有貿然採行沒有貿然推動並不是司法院沒有遵守國是會議的決議這個是第一點一定要聲明的再來從106年時至今日當時的這些疑慮現在還是存在的那我們舉其大的"},{"start":2833.337,"end":2852.796,"text":"在法庭直播的這種情況底下,影像大量的立刻傳播出去了。在矚目案件,像殺人還有貪污這些案件,證人跟鑑定人,他們是不是能夠以平常心來到庭作證,他不會受到影響呢?"},{"start":2854.472,"end":2872.248,"text":"還有直播呢他也很容易他會導致輿論審判甚至於大家所疑慮的就說公民那個審判那這個會不會影響審判的公平甚至於司法的這個公信力這個都是我們要考慮的還有呢"},{"start":2873.209,"end":2894.785,"text":"直播那個情況底下他會把法庭活動所透露的這些個人訊息呢就是原原本本的把他那個流出去那這個是有侵害隱私權跟人格權甚至於還會不會有那個人身安全的疑慮這都必須很負責任的來考量再者"},{"start":2897.801,"end":2915.555,"text":"對於播出去的這些數位影音資訊、數位影音檔,它是有遭受二次濫用的可能的,尤其是現在自媒體發達的這個時代,就是對於這些二次的濫用,像是剪輯影音或者是加以招諷。"},{"start":2916.877,"end":2937.682,"text":"那一直到現在,草案中或者是我們現行的技術,到底能不能負責的去妥善的做一個管制措施呢?對於不管是原來草案或者是今天提出的修正動議,我們並沒有看到有完整妥善的解決之道。"},{"start":2938.789,"end":2967.543,"text":"那另外要提的就是說雖然說今天的修正動議90條第三項它對於事實審的原則上不撥例外可以撥是把這個權限委註於法官的決定但是呢以上所提的很多議題它事實上是有甚至有那個憲政的那個議題的層次這能夠讓法官決定嗎再來有些案件法官決定撥了有些不能撥那這些當事人他們的平等權"},{"start":2968.223,"end":2996.362,"text":"有獲得一樣的對待嗎就為什麼有些播有些不能播還有呢就是說你委出法官在程序一開始的時候就是說有一些社會所矚目的案件他可能本來就是有支持跟反對的不同的那個不同的那個民眾那在一剛開始的時候呢就要去先去解決法庭直播的這個議題他會不會因為程序議題呢而導致了這一個延遲"},{"start":2997.463,"end":3017.344,"text":"延遲那個訴訟的那個進行再下來呢就是我們剛講就是矚目案件呢他可能會因為正反意見不一樣有對立那這樣會不會造成就是在訴訟開始的那個前階段他就會激化了整個那個社會對立還有加深了對於那個司法那個不信任"},{"start":3019.406,"end":3042.411,"text":"簡單以上只舉極大的,我們要提的是,司法院作為法院組織法的主責機關我們的責任是讓國民他可以很安心的來禁用司法,很放心的來上法院他不會有恐懼、擔憂,我們也要讓法官他能夠不受外界干擾的做出判決"},{"start":3043.331,"end":3050.982,"text":"所以基於保障審判公平還有維護基本人權司法院是持反對修法的立場以上"},{"start":3059.482,"end":3078.473,"text":"好,謝謝主席以及與會各位委員先進還有我們司法院的同仁那我想法務部這邊表達三點立場第一點就是因為這個相關的條文,細貞的法律法院組織法跟細貞的條文主要是屬於司法院的權責"},{"start":3079.794,"end":3101.757,"text":"所以司法院的意見本部竟表尊重並且都支持司法院剛剛所提出來的相關的論點第二點因為大院在司法法治委員會在前幾個禮拜也有針對這個議題舉行過公聽會本部就相關的議題在公聽會上也有提出相關的意見包含剛剛司法院也有提到"},{"start":3102.458,"end":3116.212,"text":"可能恐怕會有害於這個公平審判原則的實現以及對於參與訴訟這個過程中除了原被告之外當事人之外還有很多其他的人包含這個"},{"start":3118.954,"end":3145.34,"text":"這個證人、鑑定人或是甚至法警庭員等等他們的相關權益如何在如果假設要進行所謂的直播的話如何有配套的保障等等之類都提出相當的疑慮那相關的意見仍請參閱那第三點因為本部的執掌主要指示這個犯罪的偵查那麼特別是關於這一個證人如果他未來"},{"start":3146.58,"end":3168.24,"text":"他預期他在法庭上的發言會被直播的話這一點恐怕會往前延伸到在偵查階段就會影響他這個協助發現真實的這個意願所以對於這一點如果沒有相關的配套措施法治完備的話本部也要在此來表達相當深的疑慮認為說如果貿然的由"},{"start":3172.424,"end":3184.334,"text":"這個陳審的法官單獨就可以來決定特別是我們看到條文裡面雖然這個裁定是給抗告但是剛剛已經提到事實上這一個抗告的抗告權人應該"},{"start":3186.576,"end":3212.824,"text":"不會包含到我們剛剛所說的很多參與審判的其他的人 第三人所以可能在這個部分我們覺得有相當嚴厲討論的空間所以在這邊特別以一併來提出來跟大院作為參考 以上謝謝謝謝法務部的意見我們現在請民進黨團請發言 國民黨團請準備主席 各位代表 各位內閣官員"},{"start":3214.363,"end":3230.663,"text":"本人請代表民主金融委員會表示以下幾點立場第一點,剛才不管市委員或法務部都表示非常反對立場,而且非常清晰我們要了解這本案,我們是尊重的"},{"start":3232.399,"end":3254.46,"text":"經過刷援以及訪問因為本案是近乎惡毒的案子換言之在委會沒有衡過然後就近乎惡毒之外又有大的司法制度的變革內容的變更是用近乎惡毒然後然後就開始要表決但是在表決前我們還是表示我們立場的態度我們近乎惡毒的案子其實"},{"start":3255.501,"end":3283.412,"text":"我知道他本身並沒有尊重所謂防衛所在省的這個委員會中心主義那我們會很清楚看到這案子本身就是一個政治事件的處理案子所以在這裡是用金額圖來處理,但是他是為了特定的案子,不然就是為了科幣的案子科幣案子所以要用直播來來搗亂整個法院的生命"},{"start":3284.494,"end":3298.033,"text":"這個審查程序以及引起業外的抗爭,至少分老而已,就是他不愛護政府的目的那前一陣子我們還沒有看到法輪直播,只有共產主義國家,這是第二點"},{"start":3299.008,"end":3320.953,"text":"另外一點,有關於實質內容的問題,剛才也講得很清楚,我還是在這裡要重申一點,也就是說所謂司改國是非議,是去研議不是去解議。當初司改國是非議的時候,我就表示一個很重要的立場,就是說司改國是非議,很多司法改革案子,"},{"start":3321.733,"end":3344.132,"text":"再這樣短短有幾天的分組或是五組這樣討論一些有關司法改革,乃至於法治面的一個變革,都是沒有公式坦白講,其實沒有公式也不可能變成一個要壓著立法院去吞下去的基本上我們要了解立法院才是最高的立法機關"},{"start":3345.353,"end":3370.652,"text":"是立法院來決定法,各黨各派來這裡決定法的立法,立法一直是怎麼樣並非是國事會議,沒有民意基礎人也有學者,也有一般老百姓一番大巴巴以後就決定說這個到底要不要是參人制還是陪人制,根本不可能的事情"},{"start":3371.793,"end":3394.45,"text":"所以在這裡要表達世外國事會議我們尊重但是它既然它本身也是演繹案子不用拿這個來引以示意第四點有關於實質面的影響度非常森嚴剛才世外演繹講得很清楚這幾個我們在上一屆通過刑務訴訟192條有關於"},{"start":3398.973,"end":3425.584,"text":"這個私刑監禁將來又要交他結婚的問題現在要找證人證人、監禁人乃至於醫生來做私刑監禁沒有人會敢上法院的這個將來直播的話回答人事案件會非常大危險所以我不管從整個飲食券或是整個飲食券上面或是人格券、私用券上面"},{"start":3426.653,"end":3449.22,"text":"都是非常大的挑戰尤其現在新的刑訴已經這麼困難你要採用法院直播是沒有人這是一個想像的但是要成為事實大家用這個想像成為干擾司法科幣案子的事實的干擾沒有人會認同的這將來經過編譯"},{"start":3456.422,"end":3483.428,"text":"將來這個引帶經過編造檢驗發生後遺症是非常重大的況且很多是無罪對應主義的那你這樣通過直播對他的傷害這樣判無罪的所有的,那是沒有辦法彌補的所以就不安的原因,不管從以上我所傳的幾點我們認為我們沒有辦法變成法庭直播請院長待會我們就"},{"start":3485.268,"end":3489.43,"text":"因為讓各黨去發言,最後就表決該面對的我們還是面對以上任何的一個公共政策當然都是利弊參成"},{"start":3505.476,"end":3520.011,"text":"那剛剛我聽到總召友特別提到這世界上只有共產國家有法庭直播那我突然發現這世界上共產國家多了蠻多國家的因為各國允許40省開庭法庭轉播的包括哪些共產國家我唸給大家聽"},{"start":3522.574,"end":3538.741,"text":"美國原來是共產國家加拿大原來也是共產國家澳大利亞原來也是共產國家紐西蘭原來也是共產國家南非原來也是共產國家巴西原來也是共產國家荷蘭原來也是共產國家義大利原來也是共產國家"},{"start":3540.242,"end":3560.803,"text":"我覺得突然發現這世界上多了很多很多的共產國家但是沒有關係啦我必須說一句實在話當然也有共產國家是採用法庭直播但是這跟共產國家不共產國家其實沒有什麼關係所以我們回到法庭的這個所謂的轉播的這件事情來看那實際上我們在這個"},{"start":3562.785,"end":3575.491,"text":"我們在昨天這個朝野協商的時候其實嚴格來講初步也是有達成某些共識啦那特別是在所謂的那個法律省的部分法律省如果是採取所謂的把影音影像公開播送"},{"start":3581.334,"end":3609.97,"text":"我先跟大家公開播送跟所謂的這個直播還是不太一樣那直播公開播送他是可以直播也算公開播送但是延遲直播也是公開播送這先跟大家先澄明這個狀況所以以民眾黨的提案來講的話兩種可能性都是存在的但是誰來決定還是由法院來決定那第二個我就要特別講就是說基本上像昨天我們的協商過程當中我覺得就是一個蠻好的一個範例啦"},{"start":3610.45,"end":3635.149,"text":"那五個條文有三個條文後來都達成共識了那那個司法院代表也同意做一些文字修正那我們就讓這個昨天的協商有一個初步的成果那對於所謂第九十條沒有達成共識的部分本來剛開始也有一個方向性的東西在討論是認為所謂的法律審的部分就比較不關於一些事實的一些呃呈現的過程"},{"start":3635.689,"end":3655.783,"text":"那這個部分大家其實也可以來考慮說這個部分開始來做有關於法庭的轉播只可惜到最後還是沒有形成一個共識所以就變成今天的討論那再來第三個我要特別講就是說其實我覺得我們應該把今天的這個法案當作一個提正司法公信力的一個契機"},{"start":3656.664,"end":3684.458,"text":"大家知道如果今天司法公信力是七成八成大家都很滿意那我覺得那個法庭的這個所謂的要不要轉播要不要公開播送影音的部分的話也許討論的需要性相對比較低但是我們現在看到歷次的民調我們司法的公信力跟滿意度常常有時候三成四成就相當的低落啦那讓公眾在一些我們有限制條件的案件之上"},{"start":3685.018,"end":3702.734,"text":"能夠讓大家看到實際上法庭上的一個運作那我覺得是有助於提升我們法庭的公信力那第四個我倒是覺得說民眾黨提案裡面已經把民進黨所擔憂的問題其實都有納入了啦你自己去看它裡面有很多的排除嘛"},{"start":3703.294,"end":3720.139,"text":"雖然說要做所謂錄音錄影的一個要做以適當方式公開播送但是你妨害國家安全公共秩序善良風俗造成個人生命身體隱私或營業秘密重大損害之餘者得裁定不予公開播送"},{"start":3721.019,"end":3736.459,"text":"所以你如果認為有些東西是不適合的實際上也給法庭有所謂的一個裁定不予公開播送的這樣的一個權利那嚴格來講我直接講啦其實我覺得民眾黨已經很體貼是開了一個我覺得不是一個門大開的狀態來做這個法案"},{"start":3738.642,"end":3756.851,"text":"他是先開一個比較小的門那往前面走那當然如果覺得這個門開得我們認為小如果大家覺得還是開得太大那就像昨天我們討論甚至也可以把限縮回來到法律省都是一個方向只是很可惜昨天我覺得司法院還是對於最後是都是採取反對啦"},{"start":3757.671,"end":3785.943,"text":"所以這是我必須特別強調說從第一件事情不要什麼事都扣到共產主義啦因為真的很多國家不是共產主義國家也有採取相關的法庭直播啦那第二就是說當然法庭的一個影像的播送我不能否認會有剛剛在座很多的一些有疑慮的不管是機關代表或是民進黨的那個委員所表達的一些問題存在但是呢 事實上也不能夠因業廢死"},{"start":3786.303,"end":3801.762,"text":"那有一些方式我們可以來去研議來去研商那特別我覺得這個條文本身已經有很多的例外除外的條款我認為已經是相當周延值得我們讓法庭的公信力能夠再次提升那值得讓人民"},{"start":3802.623,"end":3830.328,"text":"可以好好的來看看說今天法庭運作不要把人民視為所謂的那個猛虎一樣好像民眾看到了今天法庭運作的現況就會造成今天法庭的審判不公我覺得人民是幫助你審判公平怎麼會是把人民當作是一個洪水猛獸被人民看到法庭的一個影像的播送就會讓法庭的判決審判不公正我覺得這個我覺得要為台灣人民抱屈一下啦以上"},{"start":3836.695,"end":3850.927,"text":"今天的協調看起來有露出了這個曙光今天我們要做的事實上是一個司法改革也是符合人民期待的那剛剛柯總召顯然是誤會了他以為全世界只有共產國家有這個"},{"start":3852.421,"end":3871.324,"text":"法庭直播 事實上不只是剛剛自強煉的這個加拿大跟英國 澳洲 紐西蘭 上年印尼印度 連非洲的南非都有 在全世界七大洲 只有蘭吉州沒有所以或許這個柯總召的這個觀念改變一下"},{"start":3873.039,"end":3890.957,"text":"改變一下 今天或許我們朝野協商就有共識了可以很順利的通過法庭直播那今天為什麼要討論這個法庭直播最近我們的司法公信力跟蠻力度真的是非常的低前陣子這個台灣名利基金會做了賴清德總統的重要司政"},{"start":3892.264,"end":3920.392,"text":"他最差的人民最過病最不滿意的這樣就是司法改革然後呢在美麗島電子報啊你問到民眾說政治力有沒有介入司法案件高達將近六成57.6所以今天我們是到底站在司法改革的這一面還是站在反改革的這一面呢我們是站在符合人民期待這一面還是是在抹煞人民的期待呢剛剛"},{"start":3923.095,"end":3941.534,"text":"司法院的副秘還有法務部的次長都提出了一些意見我想用在你們的餘力跟你們的考慮之前蔡英文總統還有大法官許玉秀都曾經已經做了回答了我想先念一段許玉秀的講法她說其實啊"},{"start":3942.591,"end":3963.024,"text":"法庭直播沒有那麼可怕啦現在是民主社會公開透明早就是一定要走的啊根本沒有什麼是洪水猛獸的問題他還特別回答你們剛剛的問題他說啊很可惜啊有些學者跟法官後來出來批評說什麼法庭直播等於是人民公審侵犯隱私什麼的"},{"start":3964.127,"end":3983.193,"text":"但看起來他們根本就沒有看清楚討論的內容就急著發言甚至亂舉例像以前那段時間什麼南港小磨命案來反對但是這種案子根本就不是直播的這個範圍他更具體講他法庭直播這件事也不是草率決定的經過當初的司改國事會的討論他說"},{"start":3988.715,"end":4014.813,"text":"大家討論過非常多次了各種反對的聲音 事實上那時候都有被提出來有人擔心什麼 證人不敢作證 這你們剛剛講的啦還有什麼怕曝光影響隱私啦 還有什麼直播經費但是這些問題那時候都已經討論了很多委員都出來解釋 他說用技術性的方法都可以解決你說你可以打馬賽克啊 聲音也可以變噪啊甚至限制只有某些公益案件能夠直播"},{"start":4015.433,"end":4040.347,"text":"他特別強調 國內啊 像食安問題 環保 集體訴訟 貪污 選舉這些案子不涉及個人的隱私 社會關注度又非常高真的很適合 也應該要法庭要直播他推到啊 他說司法是要改革的就是要打開 讓人民可以理解 讓陽光照進法庭我們不是要全部直播 而是要有選擇 有條件專業判斷的來開放"},{"start":4045.66,"end":4064.555,"text":"公開不是問題反而是誤解跟恐懼才是真正的障礙只要方向對了透明一定是可以走得穩走得好的我相信大法官徐義秀當初的講法正好已經解答了剛剛司法院跟法務部的質疑跟擔心另外我想練一段"},{"start":4065.785,"end":4092.53,"text":"蔡英文總統做的結論他說司法院馬上就要陸續開放法庭直播讓必要的資訊可以更透明這是一場有意義的司改會議他不只是因為有非常多元的意見的呈現也是因為我們改變過去的這個做法我們邀請了過半的非法律人來參加討論讓司法改革不是極限只有法律人的觀點"},{"start":4093.59,"end":4114.651,"text":"也可以從使用者這個角度來出發兼顧著人民的想法跟需求這樣改變才可以使司法體系被徹底的體檢他說我要在這裡跟我所有的在任的法官跟檢察官互相勉勵打氣對體制內人來講對檢驗這個過程當然會讓人不舒服啊可是蔡英文特別強調"},{"start":4115.745,"end":4142.719,"text":"他說這一點我想沒有人比我更能夠更深身為公部門的議員領了國家的薪水我們本來就義務啊要去接受批評接受檢驗我相信大部分的法官跟檢察官心中都有著對改革的期待我們希望一起來推動司法改革他對你們有很多的這個勉勵為什麼認了這兩段一方面回答剛剛的問題一方面"},{"start":4145.386,"end":4161.358,"text":"這次台灣民眾黨提出來修法的這個版本一方面是遵循了這次司改會議的結論非常的溫和而且是大家經過詳細討論以後我們來採用的所以包括剛剛在提的"},{"start":4162.605,"end":4187.324,"text":"我們有極度的這個限縮包括只有重大的公益社會上很重大矚目的案件才是要直播的甚至它有很多的這個排除包括妨礙到國家安全的妨礙善良風俗 各種隱私在我們的條文裡面都有啊所以我再次的呼籲既然特別是總裁已經提出來你誤會了 只有共產國家 全世界都有我們沒有比印尼 比印度更落後啦包括點案的"},{"start":4188.394,"end":4204.245,"text":"鄭文榮很有名的律師嘛鄭文榮都講說他到全世界很多國家去看人家法庭台灣的法庭真的是落後了他不只是沒有法庭識破耶連法庭的公開都遠遠落後連印尼都比不上我們有責任推動司法改革讓陽光趕快照進"},{"start":4205.566,"end":4218.174,"text":"法院更重要的我特別提醒一下既然之前有誤會現在已經解開了而且有很多的回答了請不要再阻擋今天的修法我們趕快讓陽光照進整個整個這個法院讓我們全民的期待可以得到落實謝謝"},{"start":4236.286,"end":4264.418,"text":"中華民國憲法第八十條的規定法官本來就是依據法律獨立審判不受到任何的干涉我想這個審判獨立才是在整個法官法庭的存在的一個核心意義剛剛台灣民眾黨的講法其實乍聽之下有道理其實這個也有一點胡說八道為什麼呢"},{"start":4265.936,"end":4292.407,"text":"你如果去嚴格區分大陸法系跟英美法系的話你就會很清楚的看到這次的修法裡面啊你說立法理由裡面你去提到的就是這個義大利的制度不是不可以但是你沒有去你如果這樣子我就特別挑戰你啦那你為什麼你不是舉日本德國這一些跟台灣比較接近的法系"},{"start":4293.834,"end":4300.007,"text":"而且在美國聯邦法院裡面他的刑事案件他也沒有公開播送美國也沒有"},{"start":4303.018,"end":4326.875,"text":"我相信在座黃國昌委員也法律人我們師出同門我們當年在唸訴訟法的規定的時候開宗明義訴訟的制度就是在告訴我們我幾十年了我還記得很清楚我不用翻教科書訴訟制度就是為人民而存在要建立一個富有人性而溫暖的訴訟制度"},{"start":4327.475,"end":4339.791,"text":"好了 再這樣你下去做發展的話 都可以可以發展出很多很多的一個類型但我要提出來的就是說 你像譬如啊我們立法院前一陣子在解決醫療糾紛"},{"start":4343.543,"end":4369.363,"text":"醫療糾紛大塞車為什麼會大塞車鑑定人我不鑑定我一鑑定以後我這個醫師被公審所以呢我們去年才讓他上路而已一上路以後大塞車司法院你們就弄出一個變形出來就說好那不然你鑑定人你鑑定出來以後我另外你名字我把你迷封"},{"start":4370.336,"end":4389.236,"text":"把它給迷封 鑑定的內容不要讓外面的人看到鑑定的內容可以看到 鑑定的我們就把它做一個區隔我們是為了解決很多問題司法安將的一個辦法出來 我也覺得說好啦好啦 雖然法律的規定其實有所判決我們還是接受嘛 解決問題嘛我再跟大家報告"},{"start":4394.197,"end":4408.408,"text":"現在的審判制度裡面如果你不管是刑事案件或者是民事案件你違背公開審理原則的話那當然是當然違背法令都可以上訴到三審不管是民事訴訟法或者刑事訴訟法都有這樣的一個規定"},{"start":4409.724,"end":4433.901,"text":"那好啦 那你說公開審理 本來就該公開審理你們要的 我不只要公開審理 我要的是公開播送公開播送會產生一個很大的問題我真的很苦口婆心跟大家講大家一直提到的是說 唉唷 這個國事會議啊 如何如何蔡英文總統如何 我聽了很開心大家突然很喜歡大法官的 很喜歡蔡英文總統的很好 我聽了當然很開心 但是"},{"start":4437.199,"end":4446.906,"text":"那個只是一個方向我們今天這個條文我覺得最可惜的地方在哪裡如果大家覺得這麼重要的話那你就不應該把它經負惡毒我問在座司法法治委員會誰討論過這個"},{"start":4456.364,"end":4475.275,"text":"這麼重要的話應該是各政黨大家來討論剛羅志祥委員講得很好啊說其實好像有看到曙光了我昨天在抄以協商的時候我也認為說在法律省的部分大家可以接近只是說整個我們立法者就本院制定了很多過程"},{"start":4476.255,"end":4491.869,"text":"過程要見的事實裡面法官在適用法律的時候你一定要去含涉到這些事實要含涉到這個過程要見裡面來在含涉的過程裡面你事實還是會大公開我們怎麼樣去想辦法不要變成人民公審我接下來更要講啦我們每一位在黨的朋友你們最不要只有你們啦我到現在也奉行這個規定就是說"},{"start":4504.5,"end":4511.162,"text":"無罪推定 大家都認為無罪推定可是呢 你在事實審的時候啊 我告訴各位啊公開直播真的會變一種公審真的 我擔心啦 我擔心會變成一種公審會標籤化 半條命啦一般人民走進法院 蔣元溫起訴蔣元溫起訴就一定有罪嗎就一定有罪嗎"},{"start":4530.495,"end":4558.977,"text":"可是呢 我剛接觸的我們憲法八十條法官是依照憲法 他是依照法律他要獨立審判他後面憲法跟你講了一句話喔不接受任何干涉那我們現在是說 不行啊我們要民意來監督你啊這個監督好事啊但是有沒有干涉的問題大家思考一下我沒有特定的一個見解我只是提出來另外 我舉一個"},{"start":4560.273,"end":4576.443,"text":"我為什麼在野黨朋友提出的法律的條文我全部都常常都會反對我反對是有意義的我反對到最後為什麼大家就會來修正我再告訴你說你這個條文跟條文會打架譬如說我們按照民事訴訟法我們現在321條黃國昌委員你民事訴訟法的專家民事訴訟法321條第二項規定啊我把證人到法院來啦我這個訴訟代理人我要結論的時候"},{"start":4589.349,"end":4597.16,"text":"特定人在旁 有在旁聽我沒有辦法盡其陳述假設韓國瑜院長 你現在是那個 壽命法官"},{"start":4598.001,"end":4621.59,"text":"我是證人來了以後他們要接問我我說報告審判長有這些旁聽的人在現場我沒有辦法完全陳述審判長你就必須韓國院長你就必須做一個裁定那你們其他的人先退庭都必須要如此喔現行法令制度都必須如此喔那你現在公開播送以後好我沒意見那我們其他的法律我們也來修一修吧不要讓條文跟條文都打架吧"},{"start":4626.547,"end":4641.519,"text":"我們現在修的是法院組織法86條70本來就是公開審理那黃國昌委員這樣的一個今天再提出一個再修正案他當然也把昨天的疑慮排除掉了這樣很好但是呢你又把90條之事"},{"start":4643.24,"end":4659.147,"text":"你把全部都把它給凍結了90條在知識本來講的是什麼你持有法庭錄音錄影內容的人就所取得是錄音錄影的內容不得散播跟公開播送或為非正當目的之使用你把這條凍結完以後社會就會滑爛了就是說你的目的原來是這個"},{"start":4665.953,"end":4689.853,"text":"有這樣的不當的聯想 這樣就不好我不願意去對90條之事裡面把它凍結 去做不當的一個聯想但是呢 針對民宿訴訟法321條第二項 這樣的一個精神就是說我證人只要去到庭 或者鑑定人到庭我受到其他人干擾 我可以拒絕證言"},{"start":4691.175,"end":4714.951,"text":"那我更擔心的是什麼 你現在醫療糾紛 現在這麼多的一個大塞車那你大塞車 我們想盡辦法要去解決那現在你又跟他公開播送以後 我不去了我鑑定了我不去了 我是證人 我也不去了哪怕你把我拘提來 或者說我 我 哎喲 不去會發散亂 好我來 審判長你問我 證人 不知道"},{"start":4721.656,"end":4733.475,"text":"社會重大矚目案件你叫證人在那種壓力之下我還是會覺得有一點違反人性也許很多人膽子很大也有啊"},{"start":4734.298,"end":4751.311,"text":"我推定很多人就是對於到法庭上作證本來就是國民該有的義務他會很這個站在這個立場他會覺得說我本來就是國家法律的規定我就好好的就我所知道的我所見聞的好好的來向法庭陳述有些人真的還是會怕所以這對於整個法案發現真實這個真的是萬靈丹嗎"},{"start":4759.284,"end":4783.452,"text":"所以法治之間的一個衝突的部分大家其實真的可以想清楚今天這個超越協商院長都沒有情緒了吧真的沒有情緒了吧我真的是語重心長啊每一次提出反對我們就會進步有妥協就會有進步那你說法律審的部分請司法院再來考慮這個對"},{"start":4786.508,"end":4803.046,"text":"對整個國家法治你說要走向進步嗎見仁見智啦齁那但是至少有一個最低限度大家可以達成一定的一個看法否則啊我會認為啊會違反我剛所提到的幾個基本原理原則就是我們起訴"},{"start":4806.103,"end":4816.531,"text":"變成說好像是對一個無罪推定的原則是很大的一個我不覺得完全衝突但是會有很大的一個衝擊那今天"},{"start":4821.348,"end":4839.747,"text":"整個再修正的一個動議提出來以後要講說實在話啦 倉促啦 真的是倉促啦我相信可能本來昨天朝夕行商的版本就是沒有已經沒有經過這個委員會的去審查了那你今天又提出一個再修正動議有 有比較完備了 我看了"},{"start":4841.149,"end":4863.104,"text":"但問題就是說 這涉及到啊本來進赴二讀以後啊 我連開公聽會的機會都沒有啊是因為翁小林委員那個案子是在法院法官評決的部分有一個透明性的部分我還稍微插上一個插邊球這秘書長很清楚嘛就因為這樣我才有機會排那個公聽會那個公聽會 說實在話啦 一面倒啦不是贊成啦有啦 鄭文榮贊成 我怎麼不知道呢"},{"start":4869.665,"end":4876.91,"text":"國民黨推薦的六位裡面有兩個贊成四位反對嘛這個我們都在場的嘛 都是講我們都在場的嘛所以我今天提到這個我不反對公開播送但問題是說現行法制以現在來看的話會讓民眾覺得特定目的而且對現行制度產生過度的一個衝擊司法國是會議有這樣的建議沒有錯但是啊"},{"start":4895.495,"end":4915.236,"text":"在於我們立法院怎麼樣去弄出一套制度我最擔心的就是 院長醫療糾紛的部分我們剛處理掉而已那現在好了 你公開播送我剛舉的例子 怎麼解決民宿輸送法裡面規定的 相衝突的你怎麼解決以上提出我的憂慮 請大家參考"},{"start":4917.927,"end":4928.616,"text":"謝謝莊委員發言,華國昌委員請發言完畢之後我們會休息五分鐘互相溝通然後準備進到院會,請掌握時間,謝謝因為有一些制度上面的根本問題還是要解釋莊委員可能有一些誤會"},{"start":4932.031,"end":4948.632,"text":"我具體講你為什麼說你有一些誤會現行法院組織法90條之四的規定持有法院錄音錄影內容之人就其所取得的錄音內容不得散布公開播送或為非正當目的的使用"},{"start":4949.81,"end":4975.896,"text":"你這個條文是在現在沒有法庭直播的情況之下你才有辦法用你一旦有法庭直播的話你沒有排除才真的跟你剛剛說這樣的相衝突為什麼要排除他的私用因為有公開播送跟90條之事兩件事情在本質上面是相衝突的我舉個最簡單的例子"},{"start":4976.776,"end":5004.859,"text":"我現在就已經在法條規定的要件跟條件下面進行公開播送了那既然都已經公開播送了那為什麼還要受到90條之四的限制沒有啊你90條之四他在進一步的公開播送啊你本來就公開播送了那進一步再公開播送那媒體引用有關於公開播送的內容何錯之有何錯之有"},{"start":5007.282,"end":5032.521,"text":"你就會變成讓人家感覺有特定目的所以我就說你想太多了嘛你純粹從法律的邏輯來看現在的九十條之事 水熊啊 你冷靜想一想九十條之事有它特定規範的目的啦是 我知道 但是這個是在沒有公開播送的制度之下今天已經有一個在法定的要件跟程序下面合法的公開播送了"},{"start":5033.274,"end":5047.977,"text":"在這樣的情況之下你沒有去排除90條之事那問題才會大才真的造成了你剛剛所擔心的法條衝突那現在就已經合法的公開播送了那90條之事又說不能公開播送"},{"start":5048.658,"end":5069.524,"text":"那到底要以哪一個條文為當作基準我再跟你對話一下就是說90條之事有它的規範目的你把90條之事的規範目的你把它凍結完以後會產生那種片段你像譬如說我作證完我舉的例子你很不喜歡聽嘛你讓我一分鐘跟院長講完院長你是高官"},{"start":5072.742,"end":5099.855,"text":"我來跟你關說 我說 院長 我這個案子 標案拜託一下你跟我說 不行 我一切依法辦理 我們公務人員該清廉都對啊 然後呢 我底下我偷偷的塞一把給你好啦 我的證詞是完整的咧我後面到最後 我也塞了一把錢給你可是呢 我公開播送以後 我可以錄製啊 前面這一段啊"},{"start":5101.251,"end":5122.716,"text":"變成說我這個證人到庭以後我整個被公開你變成到外面去給我錄製的話拼命錄製的話造成片段那不是我的原意啊我的原意是跟你說你到最後是有收錢的可是呢那片段裡面有人就出來講說你看人家證人到法庭上講說是完全依法辦理的公務人員應該清廉的前段跟後段我的意思就是說"},{"start":5128.933,"end":5148.808,"text":"凍結以後會有不當廉潔的聯想但這小事這個你當然如果通過以後凍結了是沒有這些問題但原來規範目的在在幹什麼就很怕在你整個被告或者整個當事人你說去到法庭以後面對這媒體"},{"start":5149.989,"end":5168.198,"text":"有的證人到法庭上他就已經軟趴趴了講話就結結巴巴的又面對公開播送的時候我是比較擔心啦這個人之常情這是人性到這個怎麼樣讓他再往前一步大家再想一下啦黃國昌議員請繼續"},{"start":5170.61,"end":5199.128,"text":"所以我剛剛就做清楚的解釋我再把法條那個唸給莊委員聽經過第二條第三項合法公開播送之錄音錄影我已經合法公開播送了我當然不會受到就是條之四的限制要不然我這邊合法公開播送那邊又不能公開播送那你這個才是真的法條衝突我舉個具體的例子我們現在的憲法法庭有公開播送嗎"},{"start":5200.765,"end":5229.442,"text":"我們現在的憲法法庭有收到90條制式的規定沒有啊新聞媒體全部都在引用啊你在YT上面看到一堆袋子啊那你說就裡面有人剪片段的內容會不會有人做這個事會有人做這個事情啊就好像什麼就好像我們在任何公開播送的情況之下都會有人說我剪一段就好像現在嘛我講話我講的很有道理的部分故意就不剪"},{"start":5230.282,"end":5257.503,"text":"我失言的部分被剪接被放大這個在一個民主自由的國家當中本來就會發生這樣的事情啊但是全程的合法的公開播送它有什麼好處每一個閱聽人甚至被誤會的人被抹黑的人他可以回去看本來原始的長什麼樣子啊那個才是真正verify最好的一個"},{"start":5258.669,"end":5284.656,"text":"那個才是真正verify最好的一個方式至於說剛剛莊委員所指教的擔心證人的部分擔心證人的部分我們也聽到了這樣子的聲音所以為什麼我在裡面特別再加了一項特別再加了一項裡面規範什麼說如果為第二項或第三項公開播送參與輸送程序者"},{"start":5285.529,"end":5301.769,"text":"有正當的理由確信公開播送及錄音錄影會有下列情況之一者他可以依申請那代表的是什麼他有申請權他有申請權參與訴訟程序他有申請權不是只有當事人有申請權他自己可以申請什麼他可以申請"},{"start":5303.24,"end":5326.179,"text":"把錄音錄影與以變身變相或其他無法直接識別該個人的方式為之這個法條我已經也寫進去了剛剛講到一個非常重要的概念在個案當中我們為什麼給法官那麼大裁量的空間我再強調一次原則上是禁止公開播送"},{"start":5327.264,"end":5351.187,"text":"例外例外的時候真的有重大社會公益社會矚目的案件例外公開播送我讓法官去考慮所有可能會涉及到的因素涉及到證人的部分我也在這邊做了處理那我們所講的公開播送法官在那個案件當中他認為直接公開播送可能會"},{"start":5352.468,"end":5367.377,"text":"擔心假設真的出現剛剛您所擔心那樣子的狀況的話那公開播送什麼時候說要用Live的沒有Live的你也可以用Delay Live的方式"},{"start":5368.537,"end":5394.647,"text":"來去做處理這個在其他國家所謂的我們在講的法庭直播的時候有的時候也不要用直播兩個字就顧名思義我們還是回到法條的文字上面來看會比較清楚我想說大家立場不同我可以尊重但是有一些誤會我覺得還是應該在這邊適度的做澄清以上說明 謝謝"},{"start":5395.592,"end":5402.886,"text":"今天謝謝 今天黨黨幹部各位內席官員今天的我們的超越協商可以說非常優質大家根據自己的理解"},{"start":5404.652,"end":5430.56,"text":"把心中河畔拖出而且沒有任何爭吵沒有任何情緒性是非常難得我個人身為主席我很希望能夠達成一個共識所以各位如果同意的話我想我們就先休息五分鐘之後我就決定下面處理的方向我們進入這個寶貴休息時間行政部門也在我們再溝通一下那我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":5431.42,"end":5435.84,"text":"所以五分鐘之後 我來進行處理 好不好謝謝大家 請休息 現在我們開始休息"},{"start":5684.465,"end":5699.757,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝各位黨團的幹部也謝謝司法院跟法務部的代表那經過了休息之後大家可以有溝通的溝通沒有辦法達成共識那也沒有辦法我們就進到院會來進行來處理"},{"start":5701.778,"end":5728.467,"text":"那現在首先第一我們保留的條文大家意見沒有辦法達成一致二為了預留院會很多委員想踴躍發言的時間我們今天討論事項第一案的協商到此為止第三我們就依議事規定與院會進行本案相關的發言四另外依照黨團共識我們五點整在院會進行各條文黨團版本表決處理"},{"start":5729.907,"end":5732.031,"text":"五,我們現在定在四連整與"},{"start":5734.332,"end":5741.616,"text":"那3點50分我們進到院會來進行因為協商是比原定的時間多了一點 長了一點所以壓縮了院會委員發言的時間我們就訂3點45分好嗎 還有9分鐘"},{"start":5760.026,"end":5768.551,"text":"那現在我們就協商散會了並請大家移駕到院會我們進行討論事項第一案的處理再一次謝謝司法院以及法務部的代表謝謝大家"}]},"meet":{"sessionPeriod":3,"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[],"term":11,"id":"黨團協商-2025062797","type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商"}},{"id":"162943","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162943","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bd4104f67978454202c5091be9e7c0a018eb8240b567cfcf1c8293b4c0140b9af710b917354ebcad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"17:41:20 - 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現在是5點57分特別跟院會報告一下在林淑芬委員發言之前依照黨團共識本案地於下午點進行條文之表決處理廣泛討論我們就進行到林淑芬委員發言完畢為止"},{"start":27.441,"end":44.447,"text":"其餘已登記廣泛討論以及逐條討論發言之委員沒有及發言者其書面發言意見均不列入公報記錄現在請林淑芬委員請發言"},{"start":49.844,"end":76.227,"text":"好 謝謝這個直播的修法案有人告訴我說委員你為什麼不支持我們在法院裡面經常受到法官的這個欺負很多的事實的勘驗法官都不予裁理那我要告訴這些人說其實你錯了民眾黨所提的法庭的直播呢基本上一二審的時候原則都不公開直播的"},{"start":76.607,"end":86.032,"text":"你以為你的小案件你的個人的案件可以被直播然後你的事實可以被發現然後你可以尋求到這個因為公審法官 公審檢察官然後得到你的正義嗎錯了"},{"start":92.555,"end":106.836,"text":"民眾黨的版本就只有兩個條件可以在一二省的時候公開直播第一個條件叫做重大的社會公益第二個條件叫重大的社會矚目可是我們都知道社會矚目高度的社會矚目"},{"start":107.737,"end":124.386,"text":"指涉的是什麼除了社會這個媒體報導的這個刑事犯罪案件經濟犯罪案件等等之外其實重大的社會矚目說穿了就是為政治人物量身定制的"},{"start":125.026,"end":134.65,"text":"所以所謂的重大社會矚目最得到便宜的就是為政治人物所得到的特權所以在這個法庭直播裡面其實為了引進全民公審為了強化輿論審判來介入司法審判其實法庭民眾黨的這個修法版本是為了讓法庭的審理成為表演的空間然後成為政治人物的司法特權"},{"start":152.857,"end":178.144,"text":"說穿了其實就是為了他們的阿貝阿貝我們都看到了所謂的直播的示範帶了我們也看到了這個剪接AI剪接動搖司法公信力的過程在我們的立法院活脫脫活生生的都演過了所以在這裡我們知道法院的審理是為了發現事實可是呢"},{"start":179.244,"end":203.384,"text":"民眾黨的提案的版本是為了妨礙真實的事實被發現是為了助長民粹市的審判的審理我再說一遍這個直播是為政治人物量身定制的司法特權是為了讓法庭的審理再一次的成為表演空間"},{"start":204.705,"end":223.091,"text":"所以這不是為人民的這也不是為你被你認為司法制度不公而設計的我再請教一下民眾黨如果你在乎人民請問醫療糾紛鑑定現在沒有醫生願意鑑定你為什麼不站出來馬上立即修法"},{"start":224.051,"end":234.282,"text":"司法院裡面透過修法的過程把車禍的民事訴訟一律改為檢疫訴訟審理為什麼不修法而是在修這個"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":119,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（16時57分）謝謝。這個直播的修法案，有人告訴我說，委員，你為什麼不支持？我們在法院裡面經常受到法官的欺負，很多事實的勘驗法官都不予裁理。我要告訴這些人說，其實你錯了，民眾黨所提的法庭直播，基本上一、二審的時候原則都不公開直播，你以為你的小案件、你的個人案件可以被直播，然後你的事實可以被發現，你可以因為公審法官、公審檢察官得到你的正義嗎？錯了，民眾黨的版本就只有兩個條件可以在一、二審的時候公開直播，第一個條件叫做重大的社會公益，第二個條件叫重大的社會矚目，可是我們都知道，高度的社會矚目指涉的是什麼？除了媒體報導的刑事犯罪案件、經濟犯罪案件等等之外，其實重大的社會矚目說穿了就是為政治人物量身訂製的，所謂的重大社會矚目，最得到便宜的就是讓政治人物得到特權，所以這個法庭直播其實是為了引進全民公審，為了強化輿論審判來介入司法審判，其實民眾黨的這個修法版本是為了讓法庭的審理成為表演的空間，成為政治人物的司法特權，說穿了其實就是為了他們的「阿伯」。","我們都看到了所謂的直播的示範帶，我們也看到了AI剪接動搖司法公信力的過程，在我們的立法院活脫脫、活生生的都演過了，所以在這裡我們知道，法院的審理是為了發現事實，可是民眾黨提案的版本，是為了妨礙真實的事實被發現，是為了助長民粹式的審理。我再說一遍，這個直播是為政治人物量身訂製的司法特權，是為了讓法庭審理再一次成為表演空間，所以這不是為人民的，這也不是為你認為司法制度不公而設計的。","我再請教一下民眾黨，如果你在乎人民，請問醫療糾紛現在沒有醫生願意鑑定，你為什麼不站出來馬上、立即修法？司法院透過修法的過程，把車禍的民事訴訟一律改為簡易訴訟審理，為什麼不修法？而是在修這個為政治人物特權的公開直播！"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員的發言。","報告院會，廣泛討論發言就到此告一段落，沒有發言的委員，誠如剛才跟大家所報告的，書面發言意見均補列入公報紀錄。","現在開始進行逐條討論。本案僅宣讀院會所收各黨團再修正動議版本，其餘提案內容均列入公報紀錄。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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各位縣法所規定的立法院的三讀的程序就是希望能夠確保我們的法律非常嚴謹的立法但是包括裡面的委員會中心主義都是這樣的精神正常的程序應該經過委員會裡面充分的討論然後再進到院會來二讀三讀這才是一個完整的程序結果去年一整年的國會亂象 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合污，那就更坐實了過去這一直以來藍、白聯手不只是在法案、在預算上殘害國家，現在甚至要把手伸向司法。","我提醒藍、白這一陣子以來，聯手因為自己的私利所創造的國家亂象已經讓人民受不了了。如果今天在黃國昌的拜託、懇求之下，國民黨跟著一起聯手，那麼民眾只會覺得要終結藍、白亂象就只能大罷免、大成功！"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員的發言。","接下來我們請范雲委員發言，李柏毅委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 完成三\n讀─","agenda_id":"1146201_00003"}}},{"id":"162932","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162932","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bd4104f679784542bd3d7715d75dd7d018eb8240b567cfcf463f7891bdd08620be04807aac789fd55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王義川","委員發言時間":"16:36:12 - 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謝謝主席啊 今天這個案子 國民黨會全部亂講連一天都沒來登記你們現在在用罷免的期間 法官也說這條不可以過律師也說不可以過 檢察官也說不可以過這整群人都說不可以過 這樣跟林鴻鴻你又支持希望罷免一段好年啦"},{"start":33.069,"end":47.784,"text":"今天因為什麼這個國窮啊 民眾黨這麼堅持要處理這條很簡單 白話文就是交違犯事件啊 要處罪化這個真信光碟 重置公開播放 處罪化"},{"start":48.935,"end":66.408,"text":"臨港法庭啊,在外面錄影重製示範帶,出罪我,這是他們的目的啦,都奇怪,啊這公開直播後,有人拿去加,啊如果要加台都可以加啊,沒辦法,因為喔,抄話叫長啊,加這個大是專長。"},{"start":69.068,"end":72.309,"text":"這就是抄襪藏鴨的專長我簡單記一下就好假設有一個企長叫阿伯"},{"start":96.038,"end":109.085,"text":"有一個生理人去送錢給這個阿伯 阿伯在後面騎腳踏車騎騎騎 要送的錢 這個阿伯說 我沒有在收錢這個送的錢 這個人說 沒關係啦 你收啦這個阿伯就沒有說話了 他就沒有說話了哥哥 這麼吵吵鬧鬧的 怎麼樣"},{"start":120.064,"end":125.528,"text":"這個抄襲堂下的說法喔,那個人要送錢的時候,那個阿伯說,我沒有在想這個事情,到這裡而已後面,那個阿伯沒說過對不對,阿伯說,嗯嗯嗯嗯,空的空的空的"},{"start":135.492,"end":145.105,"text":"欸!這大是真實的喔!這大是真實的!結果!抄襲到廠家的後面,一萬六百下去!說你看!阿伯就沒收錢啦!你說不是啊!阿伯說錢放的放,我站在車上沒錢放的放啊!"},{"start":152.219,"end":155.924,"text":"這段都沒出現你還要跟大家說 沒抄襲到倉庫斷章取義 用這樣不通 沒辦法因為抄襲到倉庫還有很多傢伙一直在圍剿 一直在用這就是民眾黨這次拿這個案的關鍵"},{"start":168.542,"end":190.757,"text":"所以你說要公開直播,當朝法教長,會亂教亂證,創造假訊息,公審法官、公審檢察官的時候,這個案子在台灣就不好。所以國民黨跟你們投票,你們要注意,你們如果支持這個案子,大罷免天才火,大罷免大成功啦!"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":86,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（16時36分）謝謝主席。今天這個案子國民黨全部「閬港」，連一個都沒有來登記發言，你們現在在被罷免期間，法官說這條文不能通過，律師也說不能通過，檢察官也說不能通過，整群有讀書的這些人都說不能通過，你們還傻傻的支持，被罷免是剛好而已！","今天為什麼黃國昌、民眾黨這麼堅持要處理這條？白話文簡單講，就是「腳尾飯事件」要除罪化，偵訊光碟重製公開播放除罪化，改天法庭上的錄影重製示範帶除罪化，這就是他們的目的。奇怪！公開直播之後，有人拿去剪，如果要剪，大家都可以剪，沒辦法，因為「草仔」和「葱仔」剪這種帶子是專長，剪一剪之後，整個公審審到一半，連法官都要出去看直播，擔心等會一判下去，出去會有事情！直播的時候，「草仔」跟「蔥仔」整群人公審那個檢察官，說檢察官亂說，等下出來要把他怎樣、怎樣，這就是「草仔」跟「蔥仔」的專長。","簡單舉一個例子，假設有一個市長叫做阿伯，有一個生意人要送錢給這個阿伯，阿伯正在騎腳踏車，騎著騎著，當生意人要送錢的時候，阿伯說：我們沒有在收這種錢。送的人說：沒關係，你收啦！然後這個阿伯就沒說話了。結果這些「草仔」跟「蔥仔」會怎麼剪？這些「草仔」跟「蔥仔」會說那個人要送錢的時候，阿伯有說我們沒有在收這種錢。就剪到這裡而已，後來那個阿伯沒說話，對不對？但阿伯就說：嗯、嗯，放著、放著。這段是真實的，結果「草仔」跟「蔥仔」剪一剪播放下去，然後說：你看！阿伯就沒收錢啦！你說不是啊！後面那個阿伯有說：錢放著、放著，我在騎腳踏車，沒空，放著、放著。這段都沒有出現，你還要跟大家說沒有，是「草仔」跟「蔥仔」斷章取義，講這樣不通喔！來不及了，因為「草仔」跟「蔥仔」還有很多假帳號，一直拿來圍剿，這就是民眾黨這次提出這個案子的關鍵，所以你說要公開直播，遇到「草仔」跟「蔥仔」把人家的帶子亂剪，創造假訊息，然後公審法官、公審檢察官的時候，那這個案子在我們臺灣就沒用，所以國民黨等一下投票時要注意，如果你們再支持這個案子，就是替罷免添柴火，大罷免就大成功啦！"],["主席：謝謝王義川委員的發言。","接下來請林楚茵委員發言，范雲委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 完成三\n讀─","agenda_id":"1146201_00003"}}},{"id":"162931","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162931","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bd4104f679784542612af780e75dbd0918eb8240b567cfcf463f7891bdd0862010110eaefe7530705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"16:32:54 - 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刑事裁定對於我們打詐條例裡面的統一見解認為說車手拿的犯罪所得只是他所得的那幾千塊錢這個也要我們立法院來善後也就是說為什麼法庭 法律省一定要公開因為這些攸關人民權利義務的相關的裁定"},{"start":147.409,"end":166.969,"text":"非常的劇烈我們也希望現在引進國民法官的我們現在的制度國民要怎麼當法官國民要有一定的法律素養才能夠當法官所以社會矚目重大矚目或重大公益事件這些的公開相關的程序讓民眾更能夠進一步了解司法的程序"},{"start":167.89,"end":192.492,"text":"在他們被選為國民法官之後他才有辦法當一個更適人的國民法官而事實審的部分我們認為原則上是不公開例外才公開所有例外的條件我們都已經在法條上面解釋得很清楚不會侵害到現有或者是比較影響小的所以不用擔心每個案子都會被公開重要的是這需要當事人的申請還有法官的裁定"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":82,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（16時33分）院長、各位同仁。我想今天修正的法院組織法，對台灣民眾黨來說，我們是要具體落實公開審理原則，法院公開審理原則本來就是我國審判實務上的重要原則，法院審理的過程基本上不會限制任何民眾來做旁聽，只有特殊的案件，例如性侵或兒少或攸關國家安全或國家機密等，本來依法就有限制，例外不公開，所以審理公開是讓法庭的審判過程可受公評、接受檢驗。同樣的，檢察官提起公訴，也要對所持有的理由跟證據，經過公開審理的過程中被檢驗，以往的公開審理開放民眾到法院旁聽，但是因為法院、法庭的空間有限，所以現在法院所行的都是所謂的延伸法庭，就是開放另外一個空間跟法庭現場同步連線，供民眾現場旁聽，但是因為受限於空間，所以還是有限制人數，同樣現在因為科技的進步，公開審理可以透過法庭不管是以直播，或公開播送的方式，或其他適當的方式，與延伸法庭意義是一樣的。","所以這次修法，民眾黨的版本清楚的表達了法律審原則上公開，例外不公開。長期以來憲法法庭已經實現了現場直播，但是攸關人民權利義務非常劇烈的，叫做最高法院所謂的大法庭，大法庭有做了幾個判決，造成了民眾權益嚴重的影響，首先保險可以作為強制執行的標的，這是最高法院的解釋，造成了非常多的影響，還需要我們立法院來修法善後；另外，最近刑事大法庭做成新的刑事裁定，對於打詐條例的見解，認為車手的犯罪所得只是他所得的那幾千塊錢，這個也要我們立法院善後；這也是為什麼我們認為法庭的法律審一定要公開，因為這些攸關人民權利義務的相關裁定，非常的劇烈，我們也希望了解引進國民法官制度，也就是我們現在的制度，國民要怎麼當法官？國民要有一定的法律素養才能夠當國民法官，如果社會重大矚目或重大公益事件能夠公開這些相關程序，讓民眾更進一步了解司法的程序，在他們被選為國民法官之後，才有辦法當一個更適任的國民法官。而事實審部分，我們認為原則上是不公開，例外才公開，所有例外條件，我們也已經在法條上解釋得很清楚，不會侵害到現有……或者是影響比較小的，所以不用擔心每個案子都會被公開。重要的是，這需要當事人聲請，還有法官的裁定。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言。","接下來請王義川委員發言，林楚茵委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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請問"},{"start":131.667,"end":158.827,"text":"而且從這個作證的內容大概就可以猜到是哪一位證人庭外他們可能遭到肉搜被騷擾甚至家人的安危這些都是必須要保護的請問這個法案有保護到他們嗎完全沒有那他們還變成說沒有啊我們只針對社會重大矚目的案件而已不就是這些重大的案件最容易淪為這些流量的秀場嗎"},{"start":161.016,"end":182.183,"text":"所以今天這個影片如果被播出去明天可能會遇到什麼事情除了證人被騷擾最有可能就是被他們剪成各種的假訊息剪成各種的抖音到處去攻擊特定的人把他做成梗圖然後在網路上進行公審那到時候如果發生這樣的事情誰來管誰來罰"},{"start":185.595,"end":201.022,"text":"所以我必須要說 全世界最喜歡法庭直播的是哪一個國家就是中國 他們最喜歡用這種方式來進行公開的羞辱和政治的審判過去在中國被消失五年的李明慧"},{"start":233.268,"end":233.509,"text":"好 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可以變相來去世化 去識別化那請問 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印尼連非洲的南非都有全世界七大洲除了南極洲之外六大洲都有法庭直播"},{"start":73.186,"end":88.979,"text":"民進黨現在連總召柯建民到今天都還搞不清楚人家已經是多麼進步陽光早就射進法院了結果民進黨到現在還在掩蓋民進黨到底要掩蓋多少的弊案啊"},{"start":91.653,"end":110.512,"text":"我們要特別強調台灣民眾黨特別做了大型的民調在20號到22號高達71.1%的台灣民眾是支持法庭直播的裡面包括不偏任何黨派的72.3民進黨啊"},{"start":113.707,"end":140.956,"text":"雖然他們的立院黨團民進黨政府到現在反對可是民進黨的民眾高達60.8%是贊成的民進黨的立法委員你們要對不起你們的選民嗎請看看民調60.8%的民進黨支持者要求要法庭直播因為法庭直播是司法改革的一部分也是符合全民期待的剛剛"},{"start":143.274,"end":162.648,"text":"民進黨立委還在強調這會變成什麼全民公審我念一段大法官許玉秀在2017年司法改革會議在第四組結論的時候的話他說法庭直播這件事"},{"start":163.749,"end":187.404,"text":"不是草率決定的像他們的第四組大家早就討論過好幾輪早就討論過好幾輪各種反對聲音那時候也被提出來有人說什麼擔心證人不敢作證怕曝光影片影響隱私還有什麼直播經費這些問題都有委員回應說用技術問題多次可以解決的"},{"start":188.004,"end":215.232,"text":"可以打馬賽克、深夜變造甚至限制某些涉及公益事件的某些事情都是可以做一些技術性的最重要他說什麼好"},{"start":218.166,"end":218.507,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":45,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（16時7分）民進黨為什麼這麼怕陽光照進法庭？民進黨到底要掩飾什麼呢？剛剛在朝野協商的時候，發現民進黨對法庭直播誤會大了，之前吳思瑤委員已經誤會了，說只有共產國家才有法庭直播，被糾正之後，剛剛的朝野協商，柯建銘總召竟然又講全世界只有共產國家才有法庭直播，事實上，加拿大、紐西蘭、英國、印度、印尼連非洲的南非都有，全世界七大洲除了南極洲之外，六大洲都有法庭直播，民進黨連總召柯建銘到今天都還搞不清楚人家已經是多麼進步，陽光早就射進法院了，民進黨到現在還在掩蓋！民進黨到底要掩蓋多少的弊案呢？","我們要特別強調，台灣民眾黨在20號到22號特別做了大型的民調，有高達71.1%的臺灣民眾是支持法庭直播的，裡面包括不偏任何黨派的72.3%，民進黨啊！雖然他們的立院黨團、民進黨政府到現在反對，可是民進黨的民眾高達60.8%是贊成的，民進黨的立法委員，你們要對不起你們的選民嗎？請看看民調，60.8%的民進黨支持者要求法庭直播，因為法庭直播是司法改革的一部分，也是符合全民期待的。剛剛民進黨立委還在強調，這會變成什麼全民公審，我唸一段大法官許玉秀在2017年司法改革會議第四組結論的時候的話，他說法庭直播這件事不是草率決定的，像他們的第四組大家早就討論過好幾輪，各種反對的聲音那時候也被提出來，有人說什麼擔心證人不敢作證，怕曝光、影片影響隱私還有什麼直播經費，這些問題都有委員回應說用技術都是可以解決的，可以打馬賽克、聲音可以變造，甚至限制涉及公益事件的某些事情都是可以做一些技術性的，最重要的他說什麼？是重大的法案，涉及重大的公益才直播，而且像食安、環保、集體訴訟、貪污、選舉這些案子，不涉及個人隱私，全民是期待的。","台灣民眾黨這次的提案非常溫和理性，就是以2017年國是會議的結論作為基準。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：我們只有重大的法案，還有社會公益，我們已經做了一個最理性的改革，請民進黨不要再擋陽光射進法庭。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。謝謝張啓楷委員發言。","接下來請吳秉叡委員發言。蔡易餘委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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各位同仁長期以來大家關心的法庭直播昨天在政黨協商當中終於有了進展藍綠白三黨針對法院組織法的修正草案進行政黨協商在62分鐘的對五條條文的協商當中司法院副院長王梅英和民進黨的代表充分表示意見五條條文當中達成了三點的協議"},{"start":44.381,"end":69.262,"text":"但是在90條跟115條的關鍵條文當中因為司法院跟民進黨的態度消極被迫保留有些人擔心法庭直播會侵害隱私事實上我們在法案章中已經將範圍限縮到了重大的公眾事件並排除了家事案件涉及隱私的案件至於直播畫面的設定"},{"start":70.223,"end":91.448,"text":"如何保證證人都有潛力可行例如在南非的Pretoria的高等法院就具體的指示直播是怎麼樣進行的它的設備要怎麼去擺放鏡頭不能對特定的特寫特定的人當中來進行速勝程序的成因倒是可以全程的播送"},{"start":92.428,"end":100.913,"text":"就像許玉秀大法官所說的法庭直播不是馬戲表演也不是洪水猛獸"},{"start":102.509,"end":129.423,"text":"有些人一直以一些娛樂性的直播嘲弄法庭直播是故意看不到法庭直播它的專重性還有嚴肅性法庭直播的背後正是社會輿論的期待可以大大的提升司法公正性並消除司法的不透明而造成的負面影響更是重要的社會法治教訓"},{"start":130.524,"end":158.405,"text":"教育在520那慶德總統就職的時候最不滿意度的部分就是司法改革我們不是要求全部的公開而是在尊重國安隱私商業機密的前提之下讓人民可以看見審判的過程這不是獵巫而是民主的基本要求是對民主法治最基本的信任"},{"start":159.466,"end":180.991,"text":"法庭直播是台灣司法改革的重要一步我們不會停下腳步來也不會說繼續延誼這個當作藉口拖延的藉口要讓陽光照進到法庭來也讓台灣跟世界進一步的接軌這一步我們一定要走下去"},{"start":181.932,"end":186.104,"text":"請大家支持在今天的時候讓法庭直播的條文能夠通過 三讀通過謝謝大家"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":42,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（16時4分）主席、各位同仁，長期以來大家關心的法庭直播，昨天在政黨協商當中終於有了進展，藍、綠、白三黨針對法院組織法的修正草案進行政黨協商，在62分鐘對5條條文的協商當中，司法院副秘書長王梅英和民進黨的代表充分表示意見，5條條文當中達成了3點的協議，但是在第九十條跟第一百十五條的關鍵條文當中，因為司法院跟民進黨的態度消極被迫保留，有些人擔心法庭直播會侵害隱私，事實上，我們在法案當中已經將範圍限縮到了重大公眾事件，並排除了家事案件、涉及隱私的案件，至於直播畫面的設定，如何保證證人都有前例可循，例如在南非的Pretoria高等法院就具體的指示直播是怎麼樣進行的、設備要怎麼擺放、鏡頭不能對特定的人進行特寫，訴訟程序的成因倒是可以全程的播送，就像許玉秀大法官所說的，法庭直播不是馬戲表演，也不是洪水猛獸。有些人一直以一些娛樂性的直播嘲弄法庭直播，是故意看不到法庭直播的莊重性還有嚴肅性，法庭直播的背後正是社會輿論的期待，可以大大的提升司法公正性，並消除司法的不透明而造成的負面印象，更重要的是社會法治教育。在520賴清德總統就職周年的時候，不滿意度最高的部分就是司法改革，我們不是要求全部的公開，而是在尊重國安、隱私、商業機密的前提之下，讓人民可以看見審判的過程，這不是獵巫，而是民主的基本要求，是對民主法治最基本的信任。法庭直播是臺灣司法改革的重要一步，我們不會停下腳步來，也不會把繼續研議當作拖延的藉口，要讓陽光照進到法庭來，也讓臺灣跟世界進一步的接軌，這一步我們一定要走下去，請大家支持在今天讓法庭直播的條文能夠三讀通過，謝謝大家。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員發言。","接下來請張啓楷委員發言，吳秉叡委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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什麼陰謀"},{"start":156.171,"end":184.465,"text":"這個法通過柯文哲用不到這個法通過也不是只有民眾黨在用是台灣人民在用所以這個設計的防止機制都已經寫得這麼清楚了那我不曉得為什麼我們的其他同仁一直還要把它扭曲事實司法改革要從"},{"start":185.726,"end":194.839,"text":"直播開始做起雖然不是萬能丹但是最起碼的話讓陽光照進司法這是很重要的"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":31,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（15時56分）院長、我們全國的人民，大家好。台灣民眾黨提出法庭直播的修法，只有讓法庭打開門戶來審查，做到的是公開審判、透明審判，讓大家看得到、讓大家聽得到、讓司法的陽光進入法庭。在立法院所討論的任何一個法案，沒有什麼暗盤，只有大家共同來商討。但是，法庭直播真的有那麼恐怖嗎？法庭直播不是個案通通可以直播，只有針對兩個議題：社會高度關注的案子，以及牽涉到公共利益有影響的案子。在有條件、有配套，經由聲請，由法庭法官來做裁定，這叫做什麼？這叫做有規律、有方法的法庭直播，不是今天你說要直播就直播。其實這些東西只有兩個重點，那為什麼要把它複雜化？","所以，我認為這次台灣民眾黨提出來的修法，它是回應司法的共識，補足現行法源的不足，所以我們提出這些修法。另外一個，也就是大家疑慮的，區分事實審查跟法律審查，這裡面都規定得很清楚，事實審跟法律審，這都分得很清楚、寫得很清楚，我不知道為什麼大家還要去誤解這個法有什麼陰謀。這個法通過，柯文哲用不到；這個法通過，也不是只有民眾黨在用，是臺灣人民在用。所以這個設計的防止機制都已經寫得這麼清楚了，我不曉得為什麼我們其他同仁一直還要把它扭曲事實？","司法改革要從直播開始做起，雖然不是萬能丹，但是最起碼讓陽光照進司法，這是很重要的。"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員的發言。","接下來請陳昭姿委員發言，劉書彬委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊瑞雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦"},{"start":24.79,"end":38.721,"text":"那剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開"},{"start":40.282,"end":62.061,"text":"那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊"},{"start":63.222,"end":82.099,"text":"當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議"},{"start":83.48,"end":96.164,"text":"研議之後有沒有研議 有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛"},{"start":98.405,"end":124.812,"text":"今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象"},{"start":125.572,"end":140.29,"text":"不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播"},{"start":141.051,"end":163.1,"text":"聽起來好像還有道理啊 公開透明啊但問題是 這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯 我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做 為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢 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各位在場的媒體朋友 我們立法院的同仁今天我看大家手上所拿到的再修正動議"},{"start":26.513,"end":48.812,"text":"我相信本院所有的委員在今天中午之前沒有人看過也就是說這整個關係到整個法治的一個重大的一個變革沒有在我們的委員會裡面曾經有任何一個立法委員去好好的做討論"},{"start":50.387,"end":77.808,"text":"這很可惜了我們一直在強調的委員會中心主義在台灣民眾黨今天所提出來將對一個司法變革重大的一個議案裡面呢他卻完全去違背了按照中華民國憲法第八十條的規定法官啊他是要依照法律獨立審判不受任何的一個干擾那如果今天"},{"start":79.178,"end":107.896,"text":"我們這樣的一個條文通過了以後我很擔心變成一個人民的一個公審在我國的法治裡面不管是民事訴訟法或者在刑事訴訟法如果是違背了公開審理那一定是構成判決違背法令都可以上訴到最高法院可是我們今天特別要去提出來的就是說讓陽光照進法院那是好事"},{"start":108.851,"end":121.017,"text":"可是如果說造成變成人民的一個公審的話本席到期期以為不可尤其是我們現行的法治裡面我們只要在事項當中"},{"start":122.694,"end":142.951,"text":"我們把證人傳到法庭上來審判長或者說訴訟代理人在結論證人的時候他只要證人認為說這個特定人旁聽只要有人特定人旁聽他就認為我沒有辦法完全做陳述那這個時候呢法官本來在另旁聽的人全部都退庭"},{"start":143.712,"end":164.397,"text":"也就是說要真實的發現這個時候法官他就發揮關鍵的一個力量那這部修法的一個目的本來就是說因為你法院沒有公開審理陽光沒有照進去沒有辦法讓社會有所信任但是呢我們卻又把說社會重大案件或者矚目的一個案件"},{"start":165.057,"end":179.188,"text":"可不可以來公佈我們又把它交給法官你不信任法官那你又把最後的一個權責又交給法官這個實在是沒有在立法院裡面好好的一個討論"},{"start":180.709,"end":200.363,"text":"我相信這個疑慮沒有辦法來解除最高法院是一個法律審法律審要來公佈各個政黨大家來好好討論但是涉及到事實審常常在審酌的事實這犯罪的一個事實無罪推定大家也不要忘記了如果說現在立法院把他給通過了好了 現在換期數滿多了到法庭上是不是形同一個標籤讓社會來公審"},{"start":212.335,"end":217.76,"text":"這是我為駐大法治的一個改革再來一堂我講一堂魔法"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":12,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（15時46分）謝謝主席、各位在場的媒體朋友、立法院的同仁。今天我看大家手上所拿到的再修正動議，我相信本院所有的委員在今天中午之前沒有人看過，也就是說這關係到整個法制的重大變革，沒有在我們的委員會裡面，曾經有任何一個立法委員好好地做討論，這很可惜！我們一直在強調的委員會中心主義，在台灣民眾黨今天所提出將對司法變革重大的一個議案裡面，它卻完全違背了。按照中華民國憲法第八十條規定，法官是要依照法律獨立審判，不受任何的干擾，如果今天我們這樣的一個條文通過了以後，我很擔心變成人民的公審。","在我國的法制裡面，不管是民事訴訟法或者在刑事訴訟法，如果是違背了公開審理，那一定是構成判決違背法令，都可以上訴到最高法院。可是我們今天特別要提出來的是，讓陽光照進法院，那是好事，可是如果變成人民的一個公審的話，本席倒期期以為不可，尤其是現行法制裡面，我們只要在訴訟當中把證人傳到法庭上來，審判長或訴訟代理人在詰問證人的時候，證人只要認為有特定人旁聽，他就沒有辦法完全做陳述，這個時候本來法官再命旁聽的人全部都退庭，也就是說要真實的發現，這個時候法官就發揮關鍵的力量。","這一部修法本來的目的就是，因為法院沒有公開審理，陽光沒有照進去，沒有辦法讓社會有所信任，但是我們卻又把社會重大案件或矚目案件到底可不可以公播？我們又把它交給法官。你不信任法官，你又把最後的權責又交給法官，這個實在是沒有在立法院裡面好好地討論，我相信這個疑慮沒有辦法解除。最高法院是一個法律審，法律審要來公播，各個政黨大家來好好討論，但是涉及到事實審，常常在審酌的是犯罪的一個事實，無罪推定，大家也不要忘記了，如果公播今天立法院把它給通過了，好了，檢察官起訴完以後，到法庭上是不是形同一個標籤，然後讓社會來公審？本席認為重大法制的改革，在野黨不要「食緊挵破碗」。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言。","接下來請沈伯洋委員發言，吳思瑤委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","莊瑞雄","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","林國成","陳昭姿","劉書彬","張啓楷","吳秉叡","蔡易餘","鍾佳濱","沈發惠","陳亭妃","黃捷","黃珊珊","王義川","林楚茵","范雲","李柏毅","李坤城","賴瑞隆","林淑芬","陳培瑜","麥玉珍","黃國昌","黃國昌"],"page_start":25,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n法院組織法修正第八十六條、第九十條、第九十一條、第九十三條及第一百十五條條文─ 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各位同仁"},{"start":6.089,"end":33.461,"text":"大家好本來要為台灣環境把關的環境部竟然在協和電廠土屋調查結果未出爐的6月24號非法掩護台電公告協和電廠世界環評的通過審查結論同意台電動工刻意忽略該土地污染的事實難道台灣的電力真的不夠了嗎"},{"start":35.598,"end":52.053,"text":"5月17號台灣進入的非核家園子當天晚上台電的數據顯示整體的火力發電來到91%這代表什麼呢代表的是我們是火力家園"},{"start":53.7,"end":70.399,"text":"火力家園這些火力發電廠發的是什麼呢燒的是煤炭燒的是天然氣代價呢就是台灣的PM2.5空氣污染台灣的肺癌跟孩童氣喘率上升"},{"start":71.821,"end":90.661,"text":"當我們過度依賴火力發電,不僅危害人民的健康,還危害台灣的經濟跟國家的安全。想想,當國外產地發生戰爭,或者是台灣被包圍的時候,天然氣船如果進不來,台灣就會斷電了。"},{"start":93.195,"end":113.27,"text":"當我們過度依賴天然氣再生能源發電比例到現在還不到20%還把核電廠停機這樣粗暴的能源轉型賴總統憑什麼保障不缺電所以我們要問備轉容量過低你家今天跳電了嗎"},{"start":115.509,"end":137.082,"text":"另外我們發現台灣的台電的總負債已經接近兩兆六千億到今年的五月總計虧損已經達到四千五百四十五億台電虧損了全民買單還造成嚴重空污常常跳電這就是我們要的能源轉型嗎"},{"start":139.037,"end":160.297,"text":"環境部不僅不環保還造成了有嚴重空污危害台灣的人民身體健康而能源政策的錯誤造成台電嚴重的虧損造成國家安全的問題耐心的不僅不併民生經濟還在排除異己搞政治鬥爭"},{"start":161.498,"end":185.279,"text":"演講失言講到了要用選舉罷免打掉雜質就像政治清洗一樣賴清德事實上已經變成他自己所說的中共代理人因為他跟習近平一樣喜歡用打掉雜質這種反民主的語言8月23號公投請投同意票台灣有錢還有錢"},{"start":191.553,"end":192.636,"text":"謝謝劉書斌委員發言 接下來請區議員發言 邁域政委員請準備"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時）院長、各位同仁，大家好。本來要為臺灣環境把關的環境部竟然在協和電廠土污調查結果未出爐的6月24號非法掩護台電，公告協和電廠四接環評通過的審查結論，同意台電動工，刻意忽略該土地污染的事實，難道臺灣的電力真的不夠了嗎？5月17號臺灣進入了非核家園，當天晚上台電的數據顯示，整體的火力發電來到91%，這代表什麼呢？代表的是，我們是火力家園！火力家園！這些火力發電廠燒的是煤炭、燒的是天然氣，代價呢？就是臺灣的PM2.5空氣污染、臺灣的肺癌跟孩童氣喘率上升。當我們過度依賴火力發電，不僅危害人民的健康，還危害臺灣的經濟跟國家的安全，想想當國外產地發生戰爭，或者是臺灣被包圍的時候，天然氣船如果進不來，臺灣就會斷電了；當我們過度依賴天然氣，再生能源發電比例到現在還不到20%，還把核電廠停機，這樣粗暴的能源轉型，賴總統憑什麼保證不缺電？所以我們要問備轉容量過低，你家今天跳電了嗎？","另外，我們發現台電的總負債已經接近2兆6,000億，到今年5月總計虧損已經達到4,545億，台電虧損了，全民買單，還造成嚴重空污、常常跳電，這就是我們要的能源轉型嗎？環境部不僅不環保，還造成了嚴重空污，危害臺灣人民的身體健康，而能源政策的錯誤造成台電嚴重的虧損，造成國家安全的問題，賴清德不僅不拚民生經濟，還在排除異己，搞政治鬥爭，演講失言，講到了要用選舉罷免打掉雜質，就像政治清洗一樣。賴清德事實上已經變成他自己所說的中共代理人，因為他跟習近平一樣，喜歡用「打掉雜質」這種反民主的語言。8月23號公投請投同意票，臺灣有錢又有電。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員的發言。","現在請許宇甄委員發言，麥玉珍委員請準備。"],["許委員宇甄：主席、各位同仁，大家早。賴清德總統以打鐵鑄劍比喻民主進程，宣稱要透過選舉罷免打掉雜質，塑造鋼鐵般的意志，這種專制政權才會出現的用詞，不僅是對多元社會的否定，更是對自由、民主價值的嚴重背叛；這種極權獨裁的言論，是對反對者毫不掩飾的恐嚇與威脅，更是對民主制度的扭曲與背離。早在六年前副總統競選期間，賴清德便曾高舉「打掉一中雜質」作為其政治主張，「打掉雜質」不僅比喻粗糙，更嚴重的是它透露出賴清德的獨裁思維與權力慾望。歷史上最擅長使用去雜質這種話語的，正是賴清德批判最烈的中國共產黨，毛澤東曾在延安整風時喊出，黨內還有不少雜質要靠整風清除，而今天賴清德以選票為工具，號稱要打掉雜質，賴清德與毛澤東的邏輯完全一致，難道賴清德也是中共同路人嗎？我要嚴正地追問賴清德，你口中的雜質究竟是指誰？是指未投票支持你的60%選民還是反對大罷免的國民？抑或是反對政府濫權的在野黨立委呢？你身為總統，卻將異己視為敵人，將反對者視為雜質，那你又算什麼呢？","現在民主的真正精神在於尊重差異、包容多元，但賴清德口中的民主，越來越像是為了排除異己，製造社會對立所包裝的政治工具，他將純化當作目標，這種治理邏輯是對民主的扭曲，更是對社會共識的破壞。一個沒有異議聲音的社會，從來不是進步的象徵，而是倒退的起點。","賴清德為了奪取國會主導權，不惜親自下場主導大罷免，濫用國家資源與行政權力，對在野黨展開全方位的政治清算，這不是民主的強化，而是對民主的背叛；不是政治參與的深化，而是對政治排除的暴走。他以不摻雜質的忠誠作為標準，將選票當作清除異己的利器，他所指向的不再是民主，而是通往專制獨裁的回頭路。","最後，我要呼籲賴清德，立刻將與自己不同的聲音貶為雜質的這樣發言，公開道歉，並正視自己言語對社會撕裂所帶來的深層傷害。若真的有誠意促進臺灣的團結，應該回到民主的正軌──擁抱多元、尊重異議。","「我不是雜質，7月26號，我不同意罷免」、「我不是雜質，7月26號，我不同意罷免」！"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的發言。","接下來請麥玉珍委員發言。陳菁徽委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":134,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-18","speakers":["韓國瑜","劉書彬","許宇甄","麥玉珍","陳菁徽","洪孟楷","林倩綺","涂權吉","葛如鈞"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2025-06-27"],"gazette_id":"1146201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第18次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1146201_00006"}}},{"id":"16790","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16790","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a6090e64ac336f003a5e313f24779fd214cf418e1797692e3a0decf5ca41629aa3c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-06-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第3會期第18次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，鑑於本院修憲委員會掌理憲法修正案之審議及相關事項，然自本（第11）屆以來，相繼有各黨委員提出修憲相關提案，惟雖經院會陸續通過將其交修憲委員會審查，但本屆至今，修憲委員會卻未依據修憲委員會組織規程予以組成；為避免各黨委員所提修憲提案付委後，無法依照院會決定交修憲委員會進行審查，爰要求本院儘速依據「立法院修憲委員會組織規程」第三條之規定，於本（第3）會期完成修憲委員會之組成，並決議第一次修憲委員會召開日期，俾利進行修憲案後續審查程序。是否有當？請公決案等10案。二、6月27日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、7月1日下午5時至6時為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-06-27","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-06-27T08:30:28+08:00","end_time":"2025-06-27T17:45:00+08:00","duration":33272,"影片長度":"09:14:32","委員發言時間":"08:30:28 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各位同仁"},{"start":1805.902,"end":1833.279,"text":"大家好本來要為台灣環境把關的環境部竟然在協和電廠土屋調查結果未出爐的6月24號非法掩護台電公告協和電廠私階環評的通過審查結論同意台電動工刻意忽略該土地污染的事實難道台灣的電力真的不夠了嗎"},{"start":1835.41,"end":1851.871,"text":"5月17號台灣進入的非核家園子當天晚上台電的數據顯示整體的火力發電來到91%這代表什麼呢代表的是我們是火力家園"},{"start":1853.513,"end":1870.208,"text":"火力家園這些火力發電廠發的是什麼呢燒的是煤炭燒的是天然氣代價呢就是台灣的PM2.5空氣污染台灣的肺癌跟孩童氣喘率上升"},{"start":1871.629,"end":1890.462,"text":"當我們過度依賴火力發電不僅危害人民的健康還危害台灣的經濟跟國家的安全想想當國外產地發生戰爭或者是台灣被包圍的時候天然氣船如果進不來台灣就會斷電了"},{"start":1893.007,"end":1913.082,"text":"當我們過度依賴天然氣再生能源發電比例到現在還不到20%還把核電廠停機這樣粗暴的能源轉型賴總統憑什麼保障不缺電所以我們要問備轉容量過低你家今天跳電了嗎"},{"start":1915.322,"end":1936.9,"text":"另外我們發現台灣的台電的總負債已經接近兩兆六千億到今年的五月總計虧損已經達到四千五百四十五億台電虧損了全民買單還造成嚴重空污常常跳電這就是我們要的能源轉型嗎"},{"start":1938.849,"end":1960.09,"text":"環境部不僅不環保還造成了有嚴重空污危害台灣的人民身體健康而能源政策的錯誤造成台電嚴重的虧損造成國家安全的問題耐清的不僅不併民生經濟還在排除異己搞政治鬥爭"},{"start":1961.311,"end":1985.091,"text":"演講失言講到了要用選舉罷免打掉雜質就像政治清洗一樣賴清德事實上已經變成他自己所說的中共代理人因為他跟習近平一樣喜歡用打掉雜質這種反民主的語言8月23號公投請投同意票台灣有錢還有錢"},{"start":1992.066,"end":1994.829,"text":"謝謝劉淑冰委員發言 接下來請區域政委員發言 蔓越政委員請準備"},{"start":2010.171,"end":2039.591,"text":"主席各位同仁大家早賴清德總統以打鐵鑄劍比喻民主進程宣稱要透過選舉罷免打掉雜質塑造鋼鐵般的意志這種專制政權才會出現的用詞不僅是對多元社會的否定更是對自由民主價值的嚴重背叛這種極權獨裁的言論是對反對者毫不掩飾的恐嚇與威脅更是對民主制度的扭曲與背離"},{"start":2040.511,"end":2065.236,"text":"早在六年前副总统竞选期间赖清德便曾高举打掉一中才职作为其政治主张打掉杂职不仅比喻粗糙更严重的是他透露出赖清德的独裁思维与权力欲望历史上最擅长使用去杂职这种话语的正是赖清德批判最烈的中国共产党"},{"start":2065.976,"end":2082.764,"text":"毛澤東曾在延安整風時喊出黨內還有不少雜質要靠整風清除而今天賴清德以選票為工具號稱要打掉雜質賴清德與毛澤東的邏輯完全一致難道賴清德也是中共同路人嗎"},{"start":2084.225,"end":2101.059,"text":"我要嚴正的追問賴清德,你口中的雜質究竟是指誰?是指為投票支持你的60%選民,還是反對大罷免的國民?抑或是反對政府濫權的在野黨立委呢?你身為總統卻將異己視為敵人,將反對者視為雜質,那你又算什麼呢?"},{"start":2107.024,"end":2132.063,"text":"現代民主的真正精神在於尊重差異包容多元但賴清德口中的民主越來越像是為了排除異己製造社會對立所包裝的政治工具他將純化當作目標這種治理邏輯是對民主的扭曲更是對社會公式的破壞一個沒有異議聲音的社會從來不是進步的象徵而是倒退的起點"},{"start":2133.104,"end":2150.373,"text":"賴清德為了奪取國會主導權不惜親自下場主導大罷免濫用國家資源與行政權力對在野黨展開全方位的政治清算這不是民主的強化而是對民主的背叛不是政治參與的深化而是對政治排除的暴走"},{"start":2151.013,"end":2166.057,"text":"他以不參雜質的忠誠作為標準將選票當作清除異己的利器他所指向的不再是民主而是通往專制獨裁的回頭路最後我要呼籲賴清德立刻將自己不同的聲音"},{"start":2166.577,"end":2186.372,"text":"扁為雜質的這張發言公開道歉並正視自己言語對社會撕裂所帶來的深層傷害若真的有誠意注定台灣的團結應該回到民主的正軌擁抱多元尊重異議我不是雜質7月26號我不同意罷免我不是雜質7月26號我不同意罷免"},{"start":2194.571,"end":2197.432,"text":"主席各位親愛的家人大家早安民進黨"},{"start":2224.824,"end":2250.064,"text":"要逼我們的人民為台電填補虧損經濟部長說9月份沒有不漲價的理由10月電價直接調漲5%這不只影響工業用電連我們民生用電也跟著漲這個是民進黨的能源政策錯誤帶來的惡果"},{"start":2254.682,"end":2270.03,"text":"絕對不讓人民來買單這個執政這幾年電價已經漲了很多次尤其是工業用電漲幅是更驚人現在政府還要全民一起來分攤台電的財務黑洞"},{"start":2273.211,"end":2276.714,"text":"這就是證明民進黨能源政策有很大的問題賴政府遺錯栽錯不認錯欺負人民再逼人民用血汗錢為政府擦屁股收爛攤子民進黨推動非核家園把穩定的核電砍掉再買昂貴的綠電結果造成供電不穩"},{"start":2298.789,"end":2313.518,"text":"台電財務陷入危機連年虧損現在甚至連台電自己都快撐不下去了更離譜的是政府不檢討不改進還要再撒一千億來補貼再漲電價"},{"start":2316.98,"end":2320.161,"text":"剝削人民的血汗錢把人民當你的提款機嗎我們能源政策必須回歸理性務實核電穩定便宜又低碳不要被民進黨的意識形態綁架了台灣民眾黨強烈推動823"},{"start":2338.587,"end":2352.783,"text":"核電研議公投讓人民自己決定自己的電要如何發怎麼省人民做主我們要乾淨的能源也要穩定的供電要"},{"start":2353.724,"end":2382.236,"text":"更合理的電價台灣民眾黨會在立法院嚴格把關決不讓民進黨政府積蓄用錯誤的政策禍害台灣我們一起呼應大家團結一心推動能源政策一起站出來捍衛民主不漲電價重啟河山研議守護人民的荷包人民加油台灣加油謝謝大家"},{"start":2385.091,"end":2389.324,"text":"谢谢麦亦臻委员的发言接下来请曾经委员发言侯孟凯委员请准备"},{"start":2398.12,"end":2421.74,"text":"主席各位委員媒體朋友大家早安今天我想提醒所有人7月26日出門頭不同意罷免幫賴總統重新定義何謂雜質賴清德的雜質說又讓大家見識到了什麼叫做傲慢的嘴臉你不支持民進黨不好意思你是雜質"},{"start":2423.061,"end":2444.99,"text":"你質疑能源政策 你是雜質你受不了空污 受不了高電價 你還是雜質講白一點 在賴清德的眼中只有民進黨的 才是純的 好的 偉大的意思是 台灣2300萬人只要不支持民進黨 各位都是雜質"},{"start":2446.511,"end":2466.574,"text":"而這也不是第一次了 民進黨政府老早就習慣把不同意見的人通通趕盡殺絕別忘了 行政院甚至將96.2%的台灣人都設定為其餘人口我們來回顧一下民進黨是怎麼定義不同聲音的人"},{"start":2467.395,"end":2482.668,"text":"反對民進黨的 叫做統派 中共同路人質疑政策的 叫做假消息 抹黑造謠想要守護環境的 反對亂重電的 叫做阻礙國家發展"},{"start":2483.809,"end":2499.276,"text":"台灣社會對立越來越嚴重能源政策一錯再錯空氣吸得比以前更毒綠地比以前更少變多的是什麼變多的只有光電板還有傲慢的民進黨高官"},{"start":2500.316,"end":2520.381,"text":"台電要破產 民進黨就把責任推給在野黨郭志輝甚至恐嚇國人說十月又要漲電價但是民進黨卻忘了讓台電嚴重虧損的元兇其實就是他們自己都執政快要十年了還有臉說是雜質造成的"},{"start":2521.451,"end":2542.102,"text":"嘴巴上說的謙卑 謙卑 再謙卑 如今真面目終於浮現出來了打著民主淬煉的招牌 實質則是要打掉雜質 剷除異己我要提醒賴清德 右手團結台灣 左手搞大罷免的戲碼終於到最終章了"},{"start":2542.782,"end":2564.922,"text":"你口中的雜質也就是2300萬台灣人民會站出來用選票教訓傲慢的政府用行動保護自己的未來跟健康台灣真正的雜質不是人民是那些把人民當成敵人把不同意見當成垃圾只會護航錯誤政策的民進黨政府"},{"start":2565.763,"end":2578.068,"text":"最後送給賴清德一句話別忘了選票才是最純粹的反擊我們會讓你知道誰才是雜質請7月26日站出來投不同意罷免"},{"start":2603.994,"end":2604.803,"text":"主席各位立院先進"},{"start":2606.565,"end":2633.013,"text":"賴清德總統上禮拜的一席話雜誌說引發全國大家的嘩然大家的討論如果這不是賴清德總統的本意為何沒有接受沒有向人民來正式的道歉如果這就是賴清德總統的本意為何總統府後續的新聞稿卻又把這幾個字給拿掉說實在話這樣子的一個說法已經深深的傷害全台2350萬人的心"},{"start":2634.873,"end":2656.339,"text":"台灣2350萬人沒有任何一個人應該被稱為雜質我必須要引用2017年NBA的冠軍勇士隊的教練Steve Kerr他曾經寫過一段話一個文章給當時的川普總統而這一段話我覺得到現在來講都還是放諸世海皆准"},{"start":2657.213,"end":2668.659,"text":"他說我們生活在一個美好的國家這個國家有缺陷但我覺得能生活在這邊無比的幸運如果你想告訴我不喜歡這裡你可以滾的話你可以審審"},{"start":2671.27,"end":2688.279,"text":"熱愛這裡 熱愛國家我們也接受這個國家的不完美但更重要的是要讓國家變好的方式就是覺醒 體諒 接受接受 擁抱 多元性因為這不只是國家的特色也是一個國家最偉大的地方"},{"start":2689.538,"end":2716.09,"text":"請記得總統是為人民工作人民不為總統工作總統是人民選出來的他不只是支持者的總統更是全國人民的總統當接受這個職務就要為這個國家做出最好的選擇總統先生你代表了全國人民所有人請團結我們而不是分化我們"},{"start":2717.401,"end":2729.229,"text":"美國的民主國家有如此的言論一樣中華民國我們身為亞洲最自豪的民主國家我們當然也應該如此這樣子來看待"},{"start":2731.06,"end":2754.307,"text":"賴總統如果說容不下在野黨那在野黨背後所代表的六成民意你能容得下嗎如果把所有不同的聲音不同的意見都當成雜質這又算什麼民主又怎麼樣能夠團結人民呢無差別的罷免是執政黨企圖想要消滅在野黨世界紀錄如果說真的得逞了這才是對於民主的最大諷刺不是嗎"},{"start":2755.916,"end":2781.984,"text":"地方鄉親最近都已經在講7月26號一定會出來投票因為他不會棄權不投票不是中立不投票是棄權而最主要就是我們要出來投下這一張不同意罷免票告訴現在政府你真的走錯路了台灣要的是拼經濟拼政治拼經濟拼民生拼發展而絕對不是政治跟對立"},{"start":2783.372,"end":2788.254,"text":"總統先生請團結所有國人而不是分化我們人每一個人謝謝"},{"start":2816.687,"end":2840.138,"text":"中東風險急需應變,確保民生需求有品無虞。本席今日針對中東局勢的升溫,特別是伊朗揚言要封鎖赫爾姆茲海峽的情勢,提出關切。赫爾姆茲海峽每天運送將近兩千萬桶的原油,"},{"start":2840.598,"end":2854.198,"text":"以及全球三成以上的液化天然氣是全球能源運輸的重要戰略咽喉一旦遭遇封鎖不僅油價可能短期內會突破每桶150美元液化天然氣市場也將面臨跳價"},{"start":2855.76,"end":2871.212,"text":"面臨很大的壓力IMF預估整個危機會持續一劑全球GDP將下修0.1到1個百分點這衝擊超過任何過去單次的升息行動"},{"start":2872.153,"end":2889.423,"text":"台灣作為出口導向且能源極度依賴進口的國家所受的影響更將劇烈我國原油進口四成來自中東天然氣各有近三成仰賴卡達等國所有運輸的路徑皆由赫姆茲海峽若發生封鎖不僅供應鏈即刻斷裂運費與風險還有保險費也將暴漲"},{"start":2895.126,"end":2909.482,"text":"我國風電的結構超過五成依賴天然氣運費風險還有整體的這個架構會急速的這個飆漲所以當前能源架構可謂單一來源單一路徑高度依賴"},{"start":2910.243,"end":2924.247,"text":"面對突變的衝突局勢將沒有緩和的空間遺憾的是在這麼明確的全球戰略風險之下行政部門到現在還沒有提出任何具體的風險評估與能源因應方案如果持續認為市場會自行調節"},{"start":2926.348,"end":2943.219,"text":"不需囤油等心態我們會向COVID-19之前措施先機屆時代價又要全民承擔一旦核物資海峽危機出現台灣會面對通膨產業成本以及出口競爭力的破壞恐將超過當年COVID的疫情所發生的供應鏈危機"},{"start":2944.58,"end":2957.438,"text":"民進黨政府長期將能源政策作為意識形態的工具片面配合執意將天然氣視為乾淨能源的過度的解方卻沒有提出足夠的備援系統國內的電力和產業的基礎將會在"},{"start":2960.202,"end":2985.22,"text":"因為戰略儲備器設施沒有法制化的架構下首當其衝整個能源政策幾乎等同國家的命脈在霍武之海峽的這個危機如果產生的話將會非常的嚴重很現實的是台灣不是國際能源署的成員也沒有辦法參與任何正式的戰略儲備協調機制因此本席在這邊慎重的呼籲行政院應該立即啟動中東風險應變專業"},{"start":2989.043,"end":3013.062,"text":"专则小组中东风险应变的专案小组盘点我国能源进口合约的结构与替代路线检视战略储备法制缺口并推动油电平稳基金与储备谢谢林倩琪委员发言接下来我们请图圈级委员发言葛如君委员请准备"},{"start":3025.987,"end":3042.053,"text":"主席 各位同仁 大家好桃園航空城計畫推動十餘年來 破壞的不是只有土地開發與地方建設更不只是興建新航廈與跑道的機場擴建案"},{"start":3043.735,"end":3048.278,"text":"而是要透過周邊產業的發展 嶄新市政的開發升級國資門戶 打造台灣成為東亞航運樞紐為了美好願景 數萬居民相信政府先見後遷"},{"start":3062.367,"end":3086.693,"text":"具體承諾忍痛離開世代居住的家園而面臨開發時程在即立法院也在5月通過提案要求中央與地方匯集相關單位針對融資、水電、安置等疑慮檢討合理時程並提出配套資源一起解決問題"},{"start":3088.154,"end":3116.448,"text":"日前透過溝通協調台電台水已經承諾解決水電問題但仍需施工期程而六月初召開的航空城專案小組會議中桃園市府也向中央提議放寬現代令並將搬遷獎勵期限調整為安置基地取得使用執照再加計月份"},{"start":3117.128,"end":3128.86,"text":"以其顧及建屋、工程品質、按部就班、完成交屋保障市民最大的權益可惜軍招主持的政委否決"},{"start":3129.912,"end":3152.074,"text":"今天本席要再次要求民航局、市府及金管會、央行等主管機關立即召開跨部會協調會不論採主案協調或通案放寬務必協助市民帶得到、住得好、蓋得起、搬得及"},{"start":3152.955,"end":3173.557,"text":"本席今天不是要為工程進度發聲,而是要為民眾信任發聲,為國家公信力發聲。請政府守住承諾,讓人民在國家建設的進行式裡看見未來的生活,而不是失去原本的安穩。"},{"start":3178.908,"end":3182.358,"text":"謝謝圖全集委員發言接下來我們請登記最後一位葛如君委員請發言"},{"start":3198.277,"end":3204.302,"text":"主席同仁各位網友鄉民大家好根據165打詐儀表版的統計上週6月15號到21號國人遭詐騙的財產損失金額高達20億4468萬元受理案件數多達3909件"},{"start":3220.094,"end":3227.902,"text":"其中前三大詐騙手法依序為第一名假投資詐騙財損達11億元第二名網路購物詐騙財損達2000多萬元第三名是假買賣家詐騙"},{"start":3235.51,"end":3263.646,"text":"事件財損3600多萬元內政部指出假投資詐騙自2021年起已經連續三年纏連財損金額最高的詐欺手法至今仍然是國人最常受騙的詐騙模式抒發部打詐通查網一頓操作下來民眾受騙手法仍以投資詐騙最多結果真正的詐騙賬號抓不到無法封鎖下架"},{"start":3264.326,"end":3277.563,"text":"竟然就拿真正的專家KOL的帳號來充當業績嗎現在竟然連美國合法的公司都可以被速發部要求平台針對台灣用戶進行封鎖讓台灣的用戶還得翻牆"},{"start":3282.809,"end":3306.97,"text":"實際上對減少投資詐騙毫無幫助可能還更容易讓民眾落入假冒KOL公司的粉磚而受騙而且錯誤下架正版粉磚這樣的一個事件還有正規的賬號的事件並非第一次發生速發部至今仍然只會推諉謝澤認為主因都在金管會"},{"start":3307.871,"end":3336.906,"text":"對於真正應該改善的查證以及通報流程完全沒有提出改善任由侵害言論自由的事件一再重演尚未引領數位產業快速起飛反而大開民主倒車對於台灣對基本人權的保障退步回到了清朝統治的時期嗎蘇巴布不僅現在沒有洗刷台灣詐騙之島的惡名反而因為言論審查形成了寒蟬效應"},{"start":3337.626,"end":3365.286,"text":"甚至衝擊台灣在國際上樹立起來的民主形象我們在此嚴正要求有關單位在兩週之內務必盡速檢討整個打炸通茶網的通報、審核、下架、申訴流程以及聯繫管道還給正規的虛擬資產專家們、平台們一個保障言論自由、資訊自由的網路空間"},{"start":3366.167,"end":3378.334,"text":"我不一定同意你但我堅決捍衛你的言論自由資訊自由7月26號請全民站出來惡霸非民意票投不同意"},{"start":5384.512,"end":5412.177,"text":"來報議會現在我們繼續開會請秘書長報告出席人數報告院會出席委員81人已足法定人數我們現在開會因為程序人會以本次會議議事日程草案送院會處理現有黨團依照本院議事成立對本次會議議事日程草案提出異議我們現在進行處理並截止收案先進行報告事項部分請議事人宣讀黨團之提議內容"},{"start":5414.54,"end":5441.878,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第三會期第十八次會議議程報告事項及質詢事項提議僅限列議程草案所列議案及效表所列二十六案是否有當進行公決本院民進黨黨團針對立法院第十一屆第三會期第十八次會議議事程報告事項質詢事項擬請自列報告事項二十二案如附表是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢"},{"start":5443.346,"end":5456.812,"text":"報院會我們依照先後處理各黨團的提議請問院會對台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過有無異議有異議我們要進行表決我們現在開始按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡"},{"start":5885.267,"end":5911.716,"text":"好報告院會打零七分鐘結職請問委員是否都有拿到表決卡好都有拿到表決卡我們要進行針對台灣民眾黨黨團所提議我們要進行表決現在有民主進步黨台灣民眾黨要求記名表決我們贊成台灣民眾黨團所提議請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":5983.459,"end":5996.175,"text":"好還在報告事項"},{"start":6007.927,"end":6025.633,"text":"好 謝謝向各位院會委員報告表決結果各位委員我們現在出席委員有110位贊成60位反對50位贊成者多數台灣民眾黨黨團所提議照案通過"},{"start":6027.165,"end":6049.238,"text":"報言會 我們院會剛才通過台灣民眾黨黨團僅限列之提議因此其他黨團的提議就不再處理我們列入公報記錄本次會議一時日程包括四項質詢四項照台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過報言會 我們現在繼續處理討論四項部分一 先後處理各黨團提議"},{"start":6050.839,"end":6073.884,"text":"首先我們要處理台灣民眾黨黨團討論事項提供一案請議事人員宣讀提議內容本院台灣民眾黨黨團針對第十一屆第三會期第十八次會議事程討論事項提議僅限列如附表12案是否有當進行公決宣讀完畢請問院會對台灣民眾黨黨團之提議有無異議"},{"start":6080.629,"end":6098.246,"text":"有意義我們要進行表決我們現在針對台灣民眾黨黨團之提議贊成請按贊成反對請按反對現有民進黨及台灣民眾黨要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":6171.19,"end":6190.308,"text":"報議會報告表決結果在場委員出席110位贊成60位反對50位贊成者多數台灣民眾黨黨團提議照案通過報議會因為院會方才通過台灣民眾黨黨團僅限列之提議"},{"start":6191.048,"end":6209.097,"text":"因此其他黨團體我們不再進行處理列入公報記錄本次會議議事日程討論事項照台灣民眾黨黨團體通過本次會議議事日程確定我們現在進行報告事項請秘書長宣讀第三會期第七次會議議事錄"},{"start":6210.993,"end":6236.461,"text":"宣讀立法院第十一屆第三會期第十一次會議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年六月二十日上午九時至九時二十一分時時至十一時二十六分六月二十四日上午九十一分至十時地點本院議場主席委員一百十二人請教委員一人主席副院長江啟臣報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第三會期第十六次會議事錄決定"},{"start":6238.802,"end":6256.016,"text":"確定第2至5、8至15、18、20至38、40至145案均決定交互相互委員會審查處理或交互相互委員會第6、7、16、17、39案均決定同意撤回"},{"start":6257.523,"end":6275.992,"text":"第十九案 決定 建務奧圖與相關提案並案協商第一百十六至一百五十二、一百四至一百五十七、一百五十九至一百六十五案為外交局、國安委員會等所提出報告案第一百五十三、第一百五十八案均決定展延審查期限"},{"start":6277.132,"end":6293.968,"text":"諮詢事項甲 行政檔案部門一件 與兩院委員諮詢部門二件討論事項第一項決議不一案不通過第二項決議交互黨團協商第三四項均決議協商後再行處理第五項決議修正通過其他事項一"},{"start":6295.936,"end":6323.346,"text":"本院會議議事日程照國民黨黨團提議通過澳台灣民眾黨黨團提議抽出軍澳獨共澳案均予以通過宣讀完畢報告委員會我們針對第三會期第十七次的會議議事錄並沒有違和黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們現在做以下決定第三會期第十七次會議議事錄確定現在報告委員會我們現在進行處理針列部分請宣讀第一案"},{"start":6324.076,"end":6334.125,"text":"第一案 本院委員陳金輝等19人鄰居不在即投票罰草案一時出意見交內政委員會審查訊息完畢決議會有異議沒有異議通過下議案"},{"start":6334.704,"end":6356.164,"text":"第二案 本院委員王宏偉等二十六人離聚不再接投票法草案一四處一間交交通委員會審查宣讀完畢第三案 本院委員王宏偉等二十六人離聚道路交通管理處罰條例第二十一條條文修正草案一四處一間交交通委員會審查宣讀完畢第四案 本院委員林倩琦等十六人離聚社會訴處罰第五條條文修正草案"},{"start":6357.825,"end":6359.425,"text":"委員通過下言委員通過下言委員通過下言"},{"start":6380.771,"end":6408.629,"text":"第七案本院委员徐欣盈等17人离聚不明教育法第3条第4条及第28条文修正常案一事出一件交交与及文化委员会审查宣布完毕第八案本院委员徐欣盈等17人离聚强迫入学条例第2条文修正常案一事出一件交交与及文化委员会审查宣布完毕第九案本院委员柯志恩等19人离聚教育基本法第2条文修正常案一事出一件交交与及文化委员会审查宣布完毕"},{"start":6409.449,"end":6427.176,"text":"第十案 本院院科生等17人離去 技術及職業教育法第九條條文修正草案 議事處一間教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢第十一案 本院院科生等21人離去 大學法第七條條文修正草案 議事處一間教育及文化委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6428.737,"end":6446.525,"text":"第十二案 本院員柯志恩等17人離去 道路交通管理處罰條例第21條條文修憲草案 議事處一件交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢第十三案 本院員柯志恩等16人離去 道路交通管理處罰條例第86條條文修憲草案 議事處一件交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6447.065,"end":6448.605,"text":"第十四案第十五案第十五案"},{"start":6468.188,"end":6494.052,"text":"第十六案本院委员正贴材的二十人理据农业保险法第二条及第十条条文修正草案第十七案本院委员正贴材的十六人理据劳动基准法第三十七条条文修正草案第十八案本院委员耿如君等十七人理据公民投票不在籍投票法草案第十八案"},{"start":6497.153,"end":6515.675,"text":"第十九案 本院台湾民众党劳团领据涉及国家安全或重大利益公务员特殊场合条例草案 议事处以尖叫司法及法治委员会审查宣传完毕第二十案 本院台湾民众党劳团领据虚拟资产人服务法草案 议事处以尖叫财政委员会审查宣传完毕"},{"start":6517.257,"end":6526.568,"text":"第21案本院院王振旭的20人累居全民健康保险资料管理条例草案意识处于监教社会福利及外星人环境委员会审查训练完毕"},{"start":6528.598,"end":6550.596,"text":"第22案 本院委員會 王梅慧等18人一聚 詐欺犯罪 危害防制條例第47條條文修正草案 議事處一間交交內政委員會審查 宣傳完畢無疑通過 下議案第23案 本院委員會 范雲等18人一聚 運動產業發展條例第13條及第26條條文修正草案 議事處一間交交務及文化委員會審查 宣傳完畢無疑通過 下議案"},{"start":6551.601,"end":6574.737,"text":"第24案 本院委員劉建國等18人離聚 老年農民福利今天撰寫條例第4條條文修正草案 議事處一間教社會福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委員會審查 宣讀完畢無疑通過 下一案第25案 本院委員劉建國等17人離聚 性別平等工作法第15條條文修正草案 議事處一間教社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢無疑通過 下一案"},{"start":6575.017,"end":6592.621,"text":"第二十六案 本院委員劉建國的學信任理據兒童及少年福利與成因保障法第十三條及第五十三條之一條文修正常案應施處於建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢無異通過報告委員會 我們本次會議報告事項記載於議事錄順序授權議事處來進行調整現在繼續處理原列報告事項請宣讀第二案"},{"start":6603.223,"end":6604.404,"text":"热情欢迎来到立法院"},{"start":6627.472,"end":6649.331,"text":"第三案本月委员罗志祥的十八顶礼具中华民国新法第七十七条条文修正草案一事出一件交司法及法治委员会审查宣途完毕第四案本月委员何清泉的二十三顶礼具运动产业发展条例第十三条第二十六条及第二十六条主二条文修正草案一事出一件交交与及文化委员会审查宣途完毕未通过下演"},{"start":6649.671,"end":6678.554,"text":"第五案本院委員劉建國的十六人凝聚唯有財政法第四十二條條文修正草案依釋出一件交財政委員會審查宣讀完畢委員通過下案第六案本院委員劉建國的十七人凝聚唯有財政法第五十二條條文修正草案依釋出一件交財政委員會審查宣讀完畢委員通過下案第七案本院委員劉建國的十八人凝聚人體生物資料或管理條例修正草案依釋出一件交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢委員通過下案"},{"start":6678.894,"end":6698.112,"text":"第八案本院委員徐宇珍等16人已廢止內政部消防署港務消防隊組織通則一事處一件交司法及法律內政兩委員會審查宣傳完畢無意通過下言第九案本院委員徐宇珍等16人已廢止經濟部標準檢驗局組織條例一事處一件交司法及法律經濟兩委員會審查宣傳完畢無意通過下言"},{"start":6699.973,"end":6721.361,"text":"第十一案本院委員徐宇珍等16年已廢止經濟部國際貿易局組織條例一事處一間交司法及法制經濟兩委會審查宣讀完畢無疑通過下一案第十一案本院委員徐宇珍等16年已廢止經濟部標準檢驗局所屬各分局組織通則一事處一間交司法及法制經濟兩委會審查宣讀完畢無疑通過下一案"},{"start":6721.621,"end":6730.654,"text":"第十二案本院委员徐医生等16人已废止经济部中央地质调查所组阵条例一事处一件交司法及法治经济联络委员会审查宣布完毕"},{"start":6731.479,"end":6733.72,"text":"第十三案第十四案第十五案第十五案"},{"start":6761.548,"end":6764.229,"text":"無疑通過下議案無疑通過下議案無疑通過下議案"},{"start":6782.199,"end":6808.257,"text":"第十八案本院委員吳麗華等十八案領據台灣地區WTC人民關係條例增添第九十三條知識條文草案議事處已見交內政委員會審查宣傳完畢第十九案行政院行為中華民國一百十四年一月二十四日制定公佈之運動部組織法運動部選民運動署組織法及同任修正公佈之行政院組織法第三條條文教育部組織法第二條第五條第九條條文"},{"start":6809.258,"end":6836.951,"text":"国家运动科学中心设施条例部分条文国家运动训练中心设施条例定自114年9月9日实行依次处理建交司法治教育及文化联合委员会宣读完毕补义通过 下一案第20案 行政院考试院行为修正涉及国家安全或重大利益公务员人员特殊常委办法第3条及第5条条文依次处理建交司法治教育及文化联合委员会宣读完毕报言会本案由国民党党团提议"},{"start":6838.154,"end":6843.921,"text":"改交審查本案交司法及法治委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6844.707,"end":6870.013,"text":"第21案 內政部海外修正 替代一役男團體外保險作業實施規定部分規定 依次處一間交內政委員會 宣讀完畢無異通過 下議案第22案 內政部含存國土計畫使用許可審議規則 依次處一間交內政委員會 宣讀完畢無異通過 下議案第23案 內政部含存國土保育費及影響費收取辦法 依次處一間交內政委員會 宣讀完畢無異通過 下議案"},{"start":6870.393,"end":6885.751,"text":"第二十四案 內政部橫送一定規模以上或性質套出土地 申請使用許可任意標準 依釋出意見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第二十五案 內政部橫送國土計畫使用許可申請辦法 依釋出意見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6887.273,"end":6914.769,"text":"第26案内政部韩总国土计划使用许可合法后应循事项办法依次处理建交内政委员会宣布完毕无疑通过下议案第27案内政部韩维修审全国性民政财团法人诚信经营规范指导原则第6点第18点及第19点规定依次处理建交内政委员会宣布完毕无疑通过下议案第28案内政部韩维修审纪念日及节日实施办法依次处理建交内政委员会宣布完毕无疑通过下议案"},{"start":6915.109,"end":6931.579,"text":"第二十九案 中央選舉委員會喊維修正 選務人員執行職務意外聲文未問及發給辦法第四條及第六條條文 議事處已經交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第三選案 經濟部內全部喊維修正 商業團體分業標準增訂電子支付商業團體業別及業務範圍"},{"start":6933.32,"end":6933.901,"text":"予以通過下一頁予以通過下一頁"},{"start":6959.781,"end":6981.602,"text":"第三宣案经济物海维修正冰温热型开引机容许耗用能源基准与能源效率分级标识事项方法及检查方式第十三点规定第六点复图一即温热型开引机容许耗用能源基准与能源效率分级标识事项方法及检查方式第十三点规定第六点复图一依次处理建交经济委员会"},{"start":6983.363,"end":7009.1,"text":"第三十三案 内政部海维修正公告加拿大三个期万选自高病原性家庭流行性感冒肺炎去删除一事处一间交经济委员会 宣布完毕无意通过下演第三十四案 农业部海维修正动物及其产品进出金门马祖地区检查规则第十一条条文一事处一间交经济委员会 宣布完毕无意通过下演第三十五案 农业部横送麦杆菊为适用植物品种及种苗法之植物种类"},{"start":7009.54,"end":7030.427,"text":"第一次處理監交經濟委員會 宣布完畢第三十六案 農業部還會廢止秋刑軍蟲發生地區實施共同防治措施第一次處理監交經濟委員會 宣布完畢第三十七案 農業部還會修正遠洋漁業條例第十三條第一項第十一款進步漁政名錄第一次處理監交經濟委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":7031.607,"end":7057.419,"text":"第38案 农业部海维修身公告 加拿大曼尼托巴选自高密原金加情流血型感冒肺疫区删除 意识处一间交经济委员会 宣布完毕第39案 农业部海维克雅西口及山山湿地 野生动物重要气息环境名称修正为克雅西口及山山湿地 野生动物重要气息环境之类别及范围并出生规定 意识处一间交经济委员会 宣布完毕无意通过下演"},{"start":7057.699,"end":7085.638,"text":"第四十一案 農業部還會修正水土保持技術規範部分條文依釋出意見交經濟委員會宣討完畢第四十一案 交通部橫送簽署完成之中華民國台灣政府與土瓦魯國政府官員在一九七八年航海人員訓練發展和當值標準國際公約架構下承認在中華民國台灣籍船舶服務者船員所持訓練與試驗證明文件協定中英文約本一本"},{"start":7086.098,"end":7087.219,"text":"委員會通過下一頁委員會通過下一頁"},{"start":7104.818,"end":7121.149,"text":"第四次三案衛生福利部吳漢維修正全民健康保險醫療服務給付項目及支付標準部分診療項目除第二部新一通則自一百十四年七月一日生效為自一百十四年五月一日生效依次處於建交社會福利及歐商環境委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":7122.35,"end":7146.194,"text":"第44案 卫生福利部海维修证 需用罕见 疾病防治及药物防治 药物品项 医事处理监教 社会福利及卫生环境委员会 宣布完毕第45案 卫生福利部海维修证 全面健康保险医疗费用申报与核复及医疗服务选查办法第6条 第10条及第34条条文 医事处理监教 社会福利及卫生环境委员会 宣布完毕无疑通过 下一案"},{"start":7146.454,"end":7168.031,"text":"第46案 衛生福利部海外修正 全民健康保險業務 藥品價格調整作業辦法 依釋處理監督 社會福利及物上環境委員會 宣布完畢不予通過 下議案第47案 衛生福利部海外修正 全民健康保險業務及副項目及支付標準部分條文 依釋處理監督 社會福利及物上環境委員會 宣布完畢不予通過 下議案"},{"start":7168.351,"end":7189.421,"text":"第一次處罰案 勞動部海維修正失業中高齡者及高齡者就業促進奔法部分條文議事處議員交由社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣傳完畢為通過下一案"},{"start":7190.287,"end":7191.007,"text":"我已通過下言"},{"start":7208.524,"end":7230.049,"text":"好 抱怨會我們46案是7案更正有國民黨黨團體改交審查第46案我們交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查第47案也交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查抱怨會第50案至133案請依序宣讀其中"},{"start":7230.789,"end":7247.146,"text":"第五十至五十六五十八至六十二六十五六十六六十八至七十八八十至九十七一百二十九案台湾民众党党团体改交审查第六十九案"},{"start":7247.967,"end":7260.363,"text":"七十一案國民黨黨團提議改交審查宣讀之後以上的提案均改交相關委員會來審查其餘的議案均照議事處意見通過請問院會有異議"},{"start":7263.973,"end":7290.265,"text":"沒有異議我們就宣讀宣讀之後通過請宣讀第五十案行政院第五一案及第五二案內宣部第五三案大陸委員會第五四案之第五六案客家委員會第五七案中央選舉委員會第五八案不當當場處理委員會第五十九案海洋委員會第六十案原住民組委員會第六一案及第六二案國軍退出官兵輔導委員會第六三案之第六五案國防部第六六案強武委員會"},{"start":7290.945,"end":7309.811,"text":"第67案之第69案经济部第70案公益交易委员会第71案农业部第72案国家发展委员会第73案行政院主席总处第74案中央银行第75案中央金融监督管理委员会第76案财讯部第77案及第78案文化部第79案核能安全委员会"},{"start":7310.251,"end":7334.725,"text":"第八十案 國立故宮博物院第八一案 國家科學及技術委員會第八二案 教育部第八三案 質疑辦委員 數位發展部第八六案 國家通訊傳播委員會第八七案 交通部第八八案 行政院公共工程委員會第八九案 總統府第九十案 考試院秘書長第九一案 監察院秘書長第九二案 司法院第九三案 法務部第九四案 環境部第九五案 衛生福利部"},{"start":7335.725,"end":7359.932,"text":"96案 勞動部第97案 國家發展委員會第98案 之第108案 經濟部第109案 之第113案 交通部第114案 及第115案 國家通訊傳播委員會第116案 之第118案 勞動部第119案 之第133案 衛生福利部刊文一個年度相關預算113年度中央政府準算附屬單位預算等預算決議分別簡訊相關報告宣討完畢"},{"start":7360.572,"end":7367.077,"text":"抱怨會第134案以下請一臂宣讀宣讀之後我們均准予被查請宣讀"},{"start":7367.918,"end":7394.39,"text":"第1、3、4人案自第1、3、6案為本院內政外交及國防密外交及國防委員會函為院會交付中央選舉委員會114年度中央政府總決算局一等案應經審查文據第1、3、7案為本院交通委員會函為院會交付審查相關行政命令已於立法院職權行使法第60條鎖定審查期限第1、3辦案為行政院函送本院土委員權及等所提臨時提案之嚴處信心"},{"start":7395.01,"end":7399.232,"text":"報告事項已處理完畢我們因為後續討論事項進行有待溝通請所有黨團幹部10點45分進後方主席休息室我們進行溝通"},{"start":10388.517,"end":10398.065,"text":"報告院會現在我們二樓旁聽席來自台南成功大學的同學們我們掌聲歡迎好對將來棟樑之才好報告院會我們現在繼續開會現有黨團共事一"},{"start":10405.424,"end":10432.363,"text":"今日星期五院會抽出動議之處理各黨團均無異議我們均照案通過二 本日院會處理之討論事項第一案完畢之後即休息三 討論事項第一案定於本日下午兩點半於紅樓302會議室協商定於本日今天下午五點我們進行條文之表決處理"},{"start":10433.988,"end":10451.968,"text":"四 下週二 院會僅處理至討論事項第二案及第三案不需協商議案處理完畢之後 即行散會本次院會討論事項就依黨團共事進行報應會 我們在進行討論事項之前"},{"start":10455.566,"end":10469.789,"text":"先處理自委員會抽出禁負二讀之提議並截止收案現在我們處理民進黨黨團提議共一案請議事人員宣讀提議內容法院會本案依照黨團共事我們照案通過"},{"start":10487.23,"end":10516.493,"text":"現在進行處理國民黨團所提供兩案先進行第一案請議事人員宣讀題內容本院國民黨黨團針對本地十八次會議盡情將委員徐玉珍的學習環境理據地方制度法第五十五條及第五十六條條文修正草案案自內政司法及法治委員會抽出淨附二讀與相關題案並且聲是否有當進行公決宣讀案例抱怨會本案依黨團共識照案通過"},{"start":10518.752,"end":10524.12,"text":"現在進行處理國民黨團所提議第二案請議事人員宣讀提議內容"},{"start":10524.738,"end":10524.918,"text":"宣讀完畢"},{"start":10554.448,"end":10581.281,"text":"抱怨會本案依照黨團共事我們照案通過抱怨會今天上午的會議進行到此為止請各黨團幹部於下午2點30分至紅樓302會議室進行討論事項第一案之協商以及協商至下午5點我們進行討論事項第一案條文之處理現在休息"},{"start":11015.002,"end":11015.084,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":11363.274,"end":11364.206,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":15899.111,"end":15899.974,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":20265.994,"end":20266.5,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":26082.489,"end":26098.779,"text":"報名會 我們現在繼續開會依照商務黨團共事本日願會處理至討論事項第一案完畢之後即興休息另外討論事項第一案定於本日下午五點進行條文之表決處理我們現在進行討論事項第一案"},{"start":26099.719,"end":26122.89,"text":"法院組織法部分條文修正草案本院臺灣民眾黨團提案經第三會期第十一次會議決定自委員會抽出禁服二讀並由臺灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商報告委員會本案因協商已經超過一個月沒有辦法達成共識我們依照立法院職權新釋法第七十一條之一的規定"},{"start":26124.451,"end":26142.74,"text":"由院會定期處理因此於本次會議我們提出討論現在進行廣泛討論依照登記順序發言並截止發言登記首先我們請莊瑞雄委員發言沈伯陽委員請準備"},{"start":26155.604,"end":26163.882,"text":"謝謝主席 各位在場的媒體朋友我們立法院的同仁今天我看大家手上所拿到的再修正動議"},{"start":26165.66,"end":26187.926,"text":"我相信本院所有的委員在今天中午之前沒有人看過也就是說這整個關係到整個法治的一個重大的一個變革沒有在我們的委員會裡面曾經有任何一個立法委員去好好的做討論"},{"start":26189.517,"end":26216.93,"text":"這很可惜了我們一直在強調的委員會中心主義在台灣民眾黨今天所提出來將對一個司法變革重大的一個議案裡面呢他卻完全去違背了按照中華民國憲法第八十條的規定法官啊他是要依照法律獨立審判不受任何的一個干擾那如果今天"},{"start":26218.308,"end":26247.025,"text":"我們這樣的一個條文通過了以後我很擔心變成一個人民的一個公審在我國的法治裡面不管是民事訴訟法或者在刑事訴訟法如果是違背了公開審理那一定是構成判決違背法令都可以上訴到最高法院可是我們今天特別要去提出來的就是說讓陽光照進法院那是好事"},{"start":26248.001,"end":26260.167,"text":"可是呢如果說造成變成人民的一個公審的話本席到期期以為不可尤其是我們現行的法治裡面我們只要在事項當中"},{"start":26261.823,"end":26282.081,"text":"我們把證人傳到法庭上來審判長或者說訴訟代理人在結論證人的時候他只要證人認為說特定人旁聽只要有人特定人旁聽他就認為我沒有辦法完全做陳述那這個時候法官本來在另旁聽的人全部都退庭"},{"start":26282.862,"end":26303.527,"text":"也就是說要真實的發現這個時候法官他就發揮關鍵的一個力量那這部修法的一個目的本來就是說因為你法院沒有公開審理陽光沒有照進去沒有辦法讓社會有所信任但是呢我們卻又把說社會重大案件或者矚目的一個案件"},{"start":26304.187,"end":26318.32,"text":"可不可以來公佈我們又把它交給法官你不信任法官那你又把最後的一個權責又交給法官這個實在是沒有在立法院裡面好好的一個討論"},{"start":26319.864,"end":26339.496,"text":"我相信這個疑慮沒有辦法來解除最高法院是一個法律審法律審要來公佈各個政黨大家來好好討論但是涉及到事實審常常在審酌的是這犯罪的一個事實無罪推定大家也不要忘記了如果說現在你把法律給通過了好了 現在換期數滿多了到法庭上是不是寫同一個標籤讓社會來公審"},{"start":26360.623,"end":26364.445,"text":"謝謝莊瑞選委員的發言接下來我們請沈伯陽委員發言吳思堯委員請準備"},{"start":26372.745,"end":26388.436,"text":"好 謝謝主席那因為這個是一個非常複雜的議題所以我就直接順著剛剛莊銳雄委員的繼續往下講因為這個畢竟是一個複雜的議題那竟然就是用這樣的一個擼過去的方式協商過水的方式來討論我覺得是岐岐不可啦"},{"start":26389.176,"end":26403.09,"text":"那剛剛有提到就是說呢我剛剛其實都有聽整個協商那協商的時候呢有說這是一個可以增加司法公信力的一個方式其實我認為正正相反因為現在民眾黨所提出的這個案子呢它的最主要是限制在這個言辭辯論這方面的公開"},{"start":26404.671,"end":26426.427,"text":"那言辭辯論這方面的公開呢其實他在引述這些證人或者鑒定人的一個說法的時候其實就有可能是斟酌在什麼法律上的針點什麼證據法則等等之類的當民眾在看這一些可能經過其他人剪輯過的或者單純這一方面的直播卻沒有看到前面的陳述的時候他會認為法院怎麼會做出這個判斷這跟我想的不太一樣啊"},{"start":26427.588,"end":26446.447,"text":"當這個感覺出現的時候它未必是增加司法的公信力所以到底開放的範圍應該是怎麼做這其實有很研討的必要那當然民眾黨一直在講說在這個司法國事會議的時候有講到法庭直播那可能是在文字上或理解上有點錯誤明明司法國事會議講的是說要研議"},{"start":26447.848,"end":26460.548,"text":"研議之後有沒有研議 有啊研議了一年之後發現認為憲法法庭是目前最適合直播的所以做了憲法法庭的直播這就是現在的結論那為什麼這一個結論不被接受那應該就對這個結論來討論嘛"},{"start":26462.791,"end":26489.398,"text":"今天為什麼在法庭直播會有民粹的風險為什麼會有檢擊的風險會有證人跟鑑定人不能夠或不敢出來作證的這個風險為什麼會有兒少還有這些婦女團體所提出的風險理由很簡單因為它是一個專業判斷法官今天面對的其實是兩個人三個人之間的一個正義之爭當專業的判斷淪為直播淪為每一個公審的對象的時候這並不是一個妥當的現象"},{"start":26489.938,"end":26504.658,"text":"不然我來講假設我今天我很重視我的生命安全我要動手術請問我要不要要求我的手術來做全國的直播如果我今天在坐飛機我很重視飛航的安全我要不要要求以後呢開飛機的都要全程直播"},{"start":26505.419,"end":26527.468,"text":"聽起來好像還有道理啊 公開透明啊但問題是 這就是一種侵犯專業的態度那以後大家會不會開始變成我不要犯錯 我只要按照SOP稍微有點風險的行為我不做 為什麼因為全程在直播那這樣的話呢 就是把這個專業棄於不顧反而是用一種人民直接用眼睛觀看的這種威嚇上的力量然後去影響這整體的進行"},{"start":26529.309,"end":26555.338,"text":"這跟立法院不一樣立法院的是政治責任立法院要讓人民看到到底有沒有去代表選區的這個人民說話立法院要有多元的討論立法院必須要有政治的責任所以立法院有這一個直播但法庭要處理的是個案的正義它處理的是當事人之間的關係用這樣的一個方式冒然的直播其實就是對當事人的不尊重也是一種非常嚴重的正義的侵害謝謝"},{"start":26557.117,"end":26560.69,"text":"謝謝沈博洋委員的發言接下來請吳思耀委員發言林國成委員請準備"},{"start":26570.958,"end":26589.383,"text":"謝謝主席我想問一個會率眾來衝北檢包圍北院動員民粹鬥臭司法現在要變本加厲提出法庭直播這個政黨的主張鼓吹媒體的公審有什麼正當性"},{"start":26590.143,"end":26606.04,"text":"我更要問 立法委員非法取得偵訊的光碟 變造英黨上質詢台來惡整官員操弄司法這種立法委員所主張的司法正義 誰能相信法庭直播等於司法透明嗎 錯 錯 錯 大錯特錯"},{"start":26610.544,"end":26637.397,"text":"直播不等於真相公審絕對不是正義不是每一個人都像黃國昌喜歡活在直播間以為直播可以解決所有的問題民進黨三個反對反對一人綁架權力院急救張氏的法庭直播民進黨反對全黨就一人為柯文哲量身定做的法庭直播"},{"start":26638.337,"end":26667.757,"text":"民進黨反對藍白和政治交易式的法庭直播為什麼我說這是一人綁架權力院急救張氏的修法呢剛剛很多委員提到了司改國是會議只是要求嚴議而不是決議但是經過八年的討論就是因為爭議過大沒有共識所以在台灣法庭直播沒有上路但是黃國昌立委用一個人的意志"},{"start":26668.597,"end":26697.11,"text":"提出禁覆二讀的法案協商只是過水要倉促的訴諸民粹來修法這難道不是急救章不是一人綁架權力院嗎而這更是全黨就義人為了柯文哲案拿司法改革來遂行妨礙司法的政治目的進行個案的全民公審司馬昭之心路人皆知"},{"start":26698.03,"end":26718.913,"text":"而這更是一個赤裸裸的政治交易的修法我手上拿到一個吹哨者今天的爆料國民黨團在今天12點多發布訊息給國民黨的立委說今天下午法院組織法有關法庭直播的修法此案關係重大"},{"start":26719.534,"end":26739.545,"text":"不但攸關藍白和持續合作更與大罷免息息相關懇請國民黨的委員共體時間進場來待命表決這不是赤裸裸的政治交易嗎拿司法改革來做就大罷免的政治交換"},{"start":26741.026,"end":26751.497,"text":"這樣子的修法有什麼正當性民進黨再次說直播不能解決所有的問題請立法院三思再三思"},{"start":26770.455,"end":26798.371,"text":"院長各位我們全國的人民大家好台灣民眾黨提出法庭直播的修法只有讓法庭打開門戶來審查做到的是公開審判透明審判讓大家看得到讓大家聽得到"},{"start":26799.618,"end":26817.285,"text":"讓司法的陽光進入法庭所以當然在立法院所討論的任何一個法案沒有什麼案盤之只有大家共同來商討"},{"start":26818.533,"end":26846.216,"text":"但是 法庭直播真的有那麼恐怖嗎法庭直播不是個案通通可以直播只是針對兩個議題社會高度關制的案子以及牽涉到公共利益有影響的案子在有條件 有配套"},{"start":26847.803,"end":26871.332,"text":"經由申請由法庭法官來做裁定這叫做什麼這叫做有規律有方法的法庭直播不是今天你說要直播就直播其實這些東西只有兩個重點那為什麼要把它複雜化"},{"start":26873.123,"end":26889.078,"text":"所以我認為這次台灣民眾黨提出來的修法它是回應失法的共識補足現行法源不足所以我們提出這些修法"},{"start":26889.841,"end":26913.544,"text":"另外一個也就是大家餘力的區分事實審查跟法律審查這裡面都規定得很清楚事實審跟法律審這都分得很清楚寫得很清楚那我不知道為什麼大家還要去誤解這個法有什麼陰謀"},{"start":26914.905,"end":26943.2,"text":"這個法通過柯文哲用不到這個法通過也不是只有民眾黨在用是台灣人民在用所以這個設計的防止機制都已經寫得這麼清楚了那我不曉得為什麼我們的其他同仁一直還要把它扭曲事實司法改革要從"},{"start":26944.461,"end":26953.567,"text":"直播開始做起雖然不是萬能單但是最起碼的話讓陽光照進司法這是很重要的"},{"start":26970.314,"end":26990.441,"text":"主席 各位同事司法是國家民主最後的一道防線但是台灣人民對司法的信任度相當低根據民調近六成的民眾對於賴政府的司法改革是不滿意的有七成的民眾支持法庭直播其中民進黨的支持者是60.8 高達六成"},{"start":26993.562,"end":27021.659,"text":"法庭直播跟抗爭有什麼關係是現在才有的嗎2016年蔡英文就職演說得到最多掌聲得到最多歡呼的那一句就是司法改革半年後舉行司改國是會議就做出了法庭直播的決議但是八年執政過去了現在是第十年我剛剛非常的驚訝在院長主持的這個三黨協商中司法院跟法務部竟然說"},{"start":27022.901,"end":27037.403,"text":"當年只是要演繹沒有要施行難怪啊難怪啊我不管你司法界如何努力你們永遠成為執政黨最弱的一環永遠是滿意度最差的一群"},{"start":27040.03,"end":27057.86,"text":"執政黨 執政以後教會了我們什麼事執政代表法教安執政代表雙重標準執政代表反改革而民眾黨長期以來就主張要司法改革讓司法變得更公開讓人民可以相信司法"},{"start":27058.993,"end":27083.325,"text":"我們推動法律直播的目的就是在這裡我們在談事實直播的部分大家對法律直播比較沒有爭議這個花時代的修正案我們其實是很有範圍限制的請大家聽清楚不要老是拿那芝麻小事來做比喻涉及重大公共利益及社會矚目的事件而且設有保護跟安全措施"},{"start":27083.985,"end":27103.812,"text":"依法不公開的審理本刑五年以下以及商業審理等等都不會納入裡面而且最重要一點是要經過法官的斟酌跟同意那證人保護有很多的方法我要說的是法庭直播是一個民主的方向無法回頭"},{"start":27105.473,"end":27120.308,"text":"如果有適當的案子 你也擋不住如果沒有適當的案子 你也進不了直播我們希望陽光照進法案讓台灣人民可以看到法官是怎麼審理的檢察官是怎麼主張的律師是怎麼辯護的"},{"start":27121.329,"end":27149.416,"text":"全國人民都可以來檢驗啊司法是民主國家最後一道防線不該關起門來審判人民有權利知道真相民進黨你怕什麼你說要司法改革你怕什麼你怕我們看到法院裡面的問題嗎你怕法官審理有瑕疵嗎你怕檢察官的證據站不住腳嗎你怕什麼呢如果沒有證據干預如果沒有不當的干預你們在怕什麼呢"},{"start":27150.556,"end":27153.257,"text":"司法的進步要經得起考驗絕對不是關起門來好 謝謝"},{"start":27179.684,"end":27201.828,"text":"好謝謝謝謝謝謝陳昭之委員的發言拜託各位委員能夠尊重發言委員權益接下來請劉書斌委員發言張啟凱委員請準備"},{"start":27217.369,"end":27246.368,"text":"主席 各位同仁長期以來大家關心的法庭直播昨天在政黨協商當中終於有了進展藍綠白三黨針對法院組織法的修正草案進行政黨協商在62分鐘的對五條條文的協商當中司法院副院長王梅英和民進黨的代表充分表示意見五條條文當中達成了三點的協議"},{"start":27247.569,"end":27274.005,"text":"但是在90條跟115條的關鍵條文當中因為司法院跟民進黨的態度消極被迫保留有些人擔心法庭直播會侵害隱私事實上我們在法案章中已經將範圍限縮到了重大的公眾事件並排除了家事案件涉及隱私的案件至於直播畫面的設定如何保證證人"},{"start":27275.126,"end":27304.125,"text":"及都有潛力可行例如在南非的Pretoria的高等法院就具體的指示直播是怎麼樣進行的它的設備要怎麼去擺放鏡頭不能對特定的特寫特定的人當中來進行速勝程序的成因倒是可以全程的播送就像許玉秀大法官所說的法庭直播不是馬戲表演也不是洪水猛獸"},{"start":27305.706,"end":27332.612,"text":"有些人一直以一些娛樂性的直播嘲弄法庭直播是故意看不到法庭直播它的專重性還有嚴肅性法庭直播的背後正是社會輿論的期待可以大大的提升司法公正性並消除司法的不透明而造成的負面影響更是重要的社會法治教訓"},{"start":27333.732,"end":27361.577,"text":"教育在520那慶德總統就職的時候最不滿意度的部分就是司法改革我們不是要求全部的公開而是在尊重國安隱私商業機密的前提之下讓人民可以看見審判的過程這不是獵巫而是民主的基本要求是對民主法治最基本的信任"},{"start":27362.657,"end":27384.217,"text":"法庭直播是台灣司法改革的重要一步我們不會停下腳步來也不會說繼續研議這個當作藉口拖延的藉口要讓陽光照進到法庭來也讓台灣跟世界進一步的接軌這一步我們一定要走下去"},{"start":27385.117,"end":27392.621,"text":"請大家支持在今天的時候讓法庭直播的條文能夠通過 三讀通過謝謝大家"},{"start":27414.226,"end":27430.747,"text":"民進黨為什麼這麼怕陽光照進法庭民進黨到底要掩飾什麼呢剛在朝野協商的時候發現民進黨對法庭直播誤會大了"},{"start":27431.738,"end":27453.145,"text":"之前吳思瑤吳委員已經誤會了說只有共產國家才有法庭直播被糾正之後剛剛的朝野協商柯建明柯總召竟然又講全世界只有共產國家才有法庭直播事實上加拿大紐西蘭英國"},{"start":27460.188,"end":27489.389,"text":"甚至印度印尼連非洲的南非都有全世界七大州除了南極州之外六大州都有法庭直播民進黨現在連總召柯建民到今天都還搞不清楚人家已經是多麼進步陽光早就射進法院了結果民進黨到現在還在掩蓋民進黨到底要掩蓋多少的弊案啊"},{"start":27492.042,"end":27510.912,"text":"我們要特別強調台灣民眾黨特別做了大型的民調在20號到22號高達71.1%的台灣民眾是支持法庭直播的裡面包括不偏任何黨派的72.3民進黨啊"},{"start":27514.116,"end":27541.379,"text":"雖然他們利宴黨團 民進黨政府到現在反對可是民進黨的民眾高達60.8%是贊成的民進黨的立法委員你們要對不起你們的選民嗎請看看民調 60.8%的民進黨支持者要求要法庭直播因為法庭直播是司法改革的一部分也是符合全民期待的剛剛"},{"start":27543.663,"end":27563.066,"text":"民進黨立委還在強調這會變成什麼全民公審我念一段大法官許玉秀在2017年司法改革會議在第四組結論的時候的話他說法庭直播這件事"},{"start":27564.158,"end":27588.016,"text":"不是草率決定的像他們的第四組大家早就討論過好幾輪早就討論過好幾輪各種反對聲音那時候也被提出來有人說什麼擔心證人不敢作證怕曝光影片影響隱私還有什麼直播經費這些問題都有委員回應說用技術問題多次可以解決的"},{"start":27588.416,"end":27615.658,"text":"可以打馬賽克、深夜變造甚至限制某些涉及公益事件的某些事情都是可以做一些技術性的最重要他說什麼好"},{"start":27618.895,"end":27632.639,"text":"主席 各位同仁 我剛剛在台下認真聽 聽了好難過"},{"start":27648.598,"end":27677.902,"text":"民國80年11月1號本席就任地方法院的法官被他們講成說現在法庭才要陽光才要照進去我們的訴訟板去給他看我們是公開神旅主義耶任何人只要不是特別的案件都可以走進法庭去旁聽那當然如果說法庭不夠大旁聽的人太多太擠的時候用其他的方式來處理我們開庭的過程中全部都是要錄音的"},{"start":27678.963,"end":27698.318,"text":"這些錄音檔從頭到尾將來你都可以申請拿出來播放如果你是當事人有權益問題的話所以我們幾十年來都是在進行一個公開審理主義結果民眾黨的委員到今天來講說我們要讓陽光照進這個法庭"},{"start":27699.707,"end":27715.506,"text":"以前好像都是黑雲密布以前都是黑箱是這樣嗎你對訴訟的審理了解多少再說 司改國是會議他得出的是法庭直播的原意"},{"start":27717.257,"end":27744.907,"text":"經過研議之後也有成果 並不是沒有大家一直認為憲法法庭的判決因為不涉及個案是涉及到整體制度的審理所以最適合直播所以我們現在憲法法庭的審判是有直播的直播的結果呢請問民眾黨跟國民黨對直播的結果有接受嗎對憲法法庭的判決"},{"start":27746.638,"end":27768.884,"text":"直播之下你們還是反對啊 還是一直罵啊所以直播不能夠造就當事人對於這個審判能不能同意啦你們現在為了要對於憲法法庭你們下毒手把憲法法庭等於廝廝廢掉啦所以真正有在直播的你們也不滿意啊"},{"start":27770.101,"end":27795.981,"text":"結果大家來看看將來要適用的跟他很有直接關係的無論是法官的團體無論是檢察官的團體無論是律師的團體無論是這個精神鑑定法律鑑定的團體無論是婦幼的團體所有的團體都反對這個法庭直播我在這個地方誠懇的呼籲我們的同仁"},{"start":27796.963,"end":27826.243,"text":"我們立法委員是選民的附託當然啦有的人是區域的 有的人是不分區的可是無論如何我們都要謙遜我們要去聽聽社會大眾的聲音絕大多數的團體跟法律相關的法學界包括教授們全部都反對的時候你在這個地方一意孤行別人的意見你完全聽不下去今天中午才拿出修正案又再搞突襲性的這個立法"},{"start":27830.865,"end":27838.147,"text":"好 謝謝吳秉瑞委員的發言接下來我們請蔡易如委員發言 鍾嘉斌委員請準備"},{"start":27861.254,"end":27885.105,"text":"主席 各位同仁很遺憾的這個禮拜要處理的法院組織法這個是由黃國昌提出淨富二讀沒有經過委員會的審議直接想要強行關山想要在沒有委員會處理的情況之下就要給他通過"},{"start":27886.277,"end":27908.384,"text":"要不是莊瑞雄委員在司法委員會還特地排了法院組織法的公聽會事實上這案在委員會根本沒有被討論的機會這就是在講黃國昌一路講的委員會中心主義嗎?亂講委員會的中心主義被你們糟蹋至此"},{"start":27909.52,"end":27931.596,"text":"那在公聽會的時候現場很多的意見包括我也有去公聽會發言那我說台灣現在沒有法庭直播嗎你們也是亂講你們也剛去參加了憲法法庭憲法法庭的法庭直播很多人都有在看那就是現在經過司改會後"},{"start":27932.636,"end":27949.97,"text":"現在憲法法庭有了法庭直播是針對法律上的論戰它不涉及到個案不涉及到當事人所以這部分適合法庭直播那司法院就採納來做法庭直播所以台灣現在就是有法庭直播啊"},{"start":27950.851,"end":27975.242,"text":"那為什麼黃國昌民眾黨你們還要強推這樣的法案你們就要把你們想像你們的法庭直播要升到了地方法院升到了高等法院甚至最高法院在審理的過程你們就想你們把你們的手伸到法院去你們說是陽光照到法院那現在法院沒有公開審理嗎"},{"start":27977.171,"end":27992.719,"text":"現在就是對於法院的偵查的錄音帶在法院都可以播送你只要去旁聽你認第三人你也可以聽到偵查錄音帶的內容所以民眾黨去旁聽你們有聽到內容啊"},{"start":27993.809,"end":28015.661,"text":"所以我一直在想很奇怪台灣現在就有法庭直播適合法庭直播不涉及到個案不影響事實審的有法庭直播那已經有事實審的這會影響到作證的一個他在自由表達的一個狀態或者是他在當鑑定人的時候他會不會受到外界的壓力"},{"start":28016.921,"end":28045.411,"text":"這個都是會遇到的尤其很多醫療事件的鑑定人他的壓力是很大的所以他不希望被公開播送我就覺得奇怪為什麼民眾黨要強推後來我才看到你們今天的版本你們的版本耶第九十條的第八項你們寫經過法庭公開播送的錄音錄影不受九十條之事的限制九十條之事以上持有法庭錄音錄影的人所取得的"},{"start":28071.185,"end":28071.205,"text":"好謝謝"},{"start":28091.765,"end":28101.608,"text":"主席在場委員先進大家看看周遭有看到國民黨的委員或國民黨要上台發言的委員嗎沒有"},{"start":28102.881,"end":28126.09,"text":"有看到民眾黨的委員 四十個委員有這個案子提案的黃國昌委員主張罪立黃國昌委員嗎 沒有他不在這個四十個人的登記發明那當中人家說 有一好沒兩好 與雄長難以兼得但是人的文明在制度上我們力求取其利 避其弊說到司法審判 司法公正"},{"start":28127.25,"end":28149.379,"text":"全國人民都希望得到因此在我們憲法設計當中我們要求獨立審判不受外力干預表達在哪裡表達在法官是終身職不受政治力影響表達在哪裡表達在集會遊行法當中法院外面有禁制區避免群眾暴力來干預"},{"start":28150.539,"end":28162.676,"text":"這是我們要求要審判獨立的但是另一方面我們也擔心法官獨裁所以要公開審理要開放堂廳要能夠有外部監督"},{"start":28163.419,"end":28186.162,"text":"所以在這兩個之間我們去取捨,直播有罪嗎?直播只是個工具,放在哪裡對,放在哪裡就錯。我們來看一下,主張要直播的人認為直播就是公開旁聽的一個延伸,不受旁聽空間的限制,任何地方都可以旁聽,聽起來十分美好。"},{"start":28187.023,"end":28194.534,"text":"但是我們要來問一下當科技有辦法錄影的時候法庭有開放錄影嗎有開放錄音嗎有開放攝影嗎"},{"start":28199.921,"end":28218.649,"text":"有但是限定於法庭為了確保審理的公正客觀所做的一種純正式的要求美國的法院到現在一樣不可以在法庭裡面拍照他只能用手繪好所以在這時候我們要問的是那直播要追求的是什麼"},{"start":28219.469,"end":28241.943,"text":"只是要追求的是真實但是這個真實已經被提案的黃光遠扼殺掉了他親身做了一個示範他在應該以事實為基礎的國會質詢當中播出了一個模擬帶到現在他也不願意去說明哪些是真哪些是假因此在這個時候有人說國會已經沒有真實了"},{"start":28243.26,"end":28266.898,"text":"直播的結果就是在黃國昌的作用之下已經不能代表真實就算你看到直播你也不曉得那是真實更何況我們現在法院的錄影錄音都是作為未來證據勘驗當中一個很重要的客觀標準當有了直播任何人取得這個素材他任意剪接法院沒有人可以保證什麼是真實"},{"start":28268.62,"end":28281.308,"text":"扼殺司法獨立公正這莫此為善請黃伯昌出來面對好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員的發言接下來我們請審發會委員發言陳廷芬委員請準備"},{"start":28301.53,"end":28316.723,"text":"各位同仁,眼前我們大家討論的是台灣民眾黨提案由中國國民黨、台灣民眾黨聯手近乎二讀的這個法院組織法的修正案這個修正案提中條文包括第86條、90條、91條、93條、105條五個條文修法的核心就是法庭直播,剛剛大家都講了很多"},{"start":28323.8,"end":28346.778,"text":"但是事實上現行的這個法院組織法86條早就已經明定我們現在的訴訟它的辯論它的這個裁判的宣示應該公開法庭行司也就是說公開審判已經是我們現在現有法令的原則不是說不直播就不是公開審判不是說公開審判就一定要法庭直播"},{"start":28348.268,"end":28350.129,"text":"不是說一定要開放黃國昌進去咆哮要開放館長進去幹架這才叫做公開審判"},{"start":28359.073,"end":28385.745,"text":"這些司法界人士這幾天連日來大家看到非常多的團體包括中華民國法官協會中華民國女法官協會台北律師公會台灣法學會民間司改會台灣刑事法學會包括全國律師聯合會包括見親檢改會包括中華民國檢察官協會包括台灣司法精神醫學會包括台灣法醫學會包括中華民國法醫醫師公會包括婦女性質基金會包括台灣"},{"start":28387.306,"end":28403.149,"text":"台灣辦理權益推動聯盟等等這麼多的團體大家都提出了質疑大家都對這樣的修法有疑慮你們現在要說這些團體通通都是綠色的側翼嗎你們要罵這些團體都是綠區嗎大家為什麼有疑慮非常簡單因為在現在的狀況之下開放法庭直播它是有一些風險"},{"start":28416.289,"end":28434.983,"text":"這些風險包括輿論公審包括網路霸凌包括造成案件的證人鑑定人他出庭的壓力甚至不願意出庭他甚至不利於事實的調查影響公開的審判侵害訴訟當事人的訴訟權甚至對無罪推定原則也都有侵害"},{"start":28437.103,"end":28464.551,"text":"這樣子司法界這麼多疑慮引起司法界的疑慮的這樣的法案你們要說清楚黃國昌站出來說清楚張其凱站出來說清楚為什麼要禁復二讀這個講清楚就好了至於內容我們如果不是禁復二讀我們來司法法治委員會好好辯論講清楚啊民眾黨為什麼要禁復二讀為什麼司法界這麼多反對的意見你們要禁復二讀為什麼"},{"start":28469.608,"end":28482.238,"text":"為什麼要進一步惡賭這一屆的國會就是這種惡例為什麼現在大家想改變國會的結構就是因為所有的案子你們都這麼幹請司法界的人士看清楚"},{"start":28503.539,"end":28531.5,"text":"謝謝院長我們在立法院這麼久了我算是第五屆了我第一次修法參與了一個完全沒討論而且有那麼多人反對從專家學者到所有的團體而且這些團體還包含了兒少婦女私改團體他們都站出來反對"},{"start":28532.791,"end":28558.41,"text":"甚至公聽會也是幾乎一面倒不是反對就是保留立場結果我們今天居然要在立法院裡面來表決這樣極具爭議的案子完全沒有討論甚至是一面倒的反對與保留立場"},{"start":28559.793,"end":28581.778,"text":"我要說的曾幾何時我們的立法院已經變成是這樣的一言堂嗎而且我們所看到的法庭直播它的問題是非常多而且非常的複雜我們知道"},{"start":28583.97,"end":28612.948,"text":"現在就已經有很多的證人還有鑑定人根本不敢上法庭如果未來直播之後請問這些人是不是要背負更多的輿論壓力而不敢說實話甚至不敢擔任證人或鑑定人請問那事實的真相如何查清楚還有"},{"start":28614.127,"end":28633.133,"text":"我們現在看到民眾黨所提的修正動議說可以變身可以變相來去世化去識別化那請問難道這樣就不能辨別出身份了嗎為什麼要這麼的草率"},{"start":28634.246,"end":28656.38,"text":"我們大家可以好好的討論不是不能討論而是針對所有的問題來討論我們現在看到的如果在案件審查之前我們必須討一番說我們是不是要裁定要公開做播送"},{"start":28658.072,"end":28686.938,"text":"那是不是要經由這樣的來來去去的過程又延遲了整個訴訟程序而讓整個訴訟程序的延待而造成審判更沒有效率這都是我們所擔心而且我們要去討論的為什麼到今天我們根本都還沒有就事實去討論我們就要表決了到底是誰在搞鬼到底是誰在堅持我們"},{"start":28701.253,"end":28707.089,"text":"謝謝陳廷飛委員的發言接下來我們請黃婕委員發言黃珊珊委員請準備"},{"start":28722.383,"end":28741.36,"text":"好 主席各位同仁大家午安在今天中午之前我不知道大家手上有沒有看過目前我們準備要通過的這個版本我相信都沒有看過因為大家手上目前拿到的在修正動議直到今天中午才出現"},{"start":28742.651,"end":28759.603,"text":"所以又來了 黃國昌跟傅坤祺又來了再次透過突襲式的立法 用這種粗暴的方式委員會完全沒有討論過就要進負二讀甚至到今天中午才拿出這個最高機密的版本這是你們要的委員會中心主義嗎"},{"start":28764.782,"end":28788.154,"text":"這麼爭議的法案難道不需要在委員會好好討論嗎要不是莊瑞雄委員排了一個公聽會在此之前這個法案是完全沒有被討論過的更不用說現在有高達30個團體反對目前的這個提案甚至包括法官協會包括法學會包括律師聯合會檢察官協會全部都反對"},{"start":28790.25,"end":28807.316,"text":"審檢辯學四大類的法界的團體全部都反對現在黃國昌卻要強行通過甚至他人都沒有來到這裡甚至他人都沒有準備上來發言這樣子正義法案是可以這樣隨便粗暴通過的嗎"},{"start":28809.892,"end":28832.299,"text":"目前這個到了今天中午黃國昌提出的這個修正版其實是換湯不換藥也沒有解決目前外界最核心的疑慮因為他們說今天中午的版本新增了這個變身變相的保護條款但請問這個有用嗎有用嗎證人光是想到他要上全國的直播被像黃國昌被像館長這樣的人來公審他們還敢出庭嗎 請問"},{"start":28837.366,"end":28864.511,"text":"而且從這個作證的內容大概就可以猜到是哪一位證人庭外他們可能遭到肉搜被騷擾甚至家人的安危這些都是必須要保護的請問這個法案有保護到他們嗎完全沒有那他們還變成說沒有啊我們只針對社會重大矚目的案件而已不就是這些重大的案件最容易淪為這些流量的秀場嗎"},{"start":28866.716,"end":28887.906,"text":"所以今天這個影片如果被播出去明天可能會遇到什麼事情除了證人被騷擾最有可能就是被他們剪成各種的假訊息剪成各種的抖音到處去攻擊特定的人把他做成梗圖然後在網路上進行公審那到時候如果發生這樣的事情誰來管誰來罰"},{"start":28891.311,"end":28906.837,"text":"所以我必須要說 全世界最喜歡法庭直播的是哪一個國家就是中國 他們最喜歡用這種方式來進行公開的羞辱和政治的審判過去在中國被消失五年的李明...記者 記者"},{"start":28938.961,"end":28945.383,"text":"合理司法的說法的說並不是阿凱的主張而是阿凱的運動希望大家不遺憾司法的依賴尊重司法的利益以及司法的尊嚴保護每一位成人和受害者請大家共同反對這個議案"},{"start":28952.881,"end":28978.983,"text":"院長各位同仁我想今天的修正的法院組織法對臺灣民眾來說我們是要具體落實公開審理的原則法院公開審理原則本來就是我國審判事務上的重要原則法院審理的過程基本上不會限制任何民眾來座旁聽只有特殊的案件例如性侵或兒少或攸關國家安全或國家機密等本來依法就有限制"},{"start":28979.764,"end":29004.938,"text":"例外不公開所以審理公開是讓法庭的審判過程可受公平接受檢驗同樣的檢察官提起公訴也要對所持有的理由跟證據經過公開審理的過程中被檢驗以往的公開審理開放民眾到法院旁聽但是因為法院法庭的空間有限所以現在法院所行的都是所謂的延伸法庭"},{"start":29005.518,"end":29027.75,"text":"就是開放另外一個空間跟法庭現場同步連線供民眾現場旁聽但是因為受限於空間所以還是有限制人數同樣現在因為科技的進步公開審理可以透過法庭不管是以直播或公開播送的方式或其他適當的方式與延伸的法庭意義是一樣的"},{"start":29028.61,"end":29056.06,"text":"所以這次修法民眾黨的版本清楚的表達了法律審原則上公開例外不公開這次憲法法庭長期以來憲法法庭已經實現了現場直播但是攸關人民權利義務非常非常劇烈的叫做最高法院的所謂的大法庭大法庭有做了幾個判決造成了民眾權益嚴重的影響首先"},{"start":29056.88,"end":29073.84,"text":"保險可以作為強制執行的標的這是最高法院的解釋造成了非常多的影響還需要我們立法院來修法善後另外最近刑事大法庭做成的新的裁定 刑事裁定對於我們打詐條例裡面的統一見解認為說"},{"start":29076.663,"end":29096.915,"text":"車手拿的犯罪所得只是他所得的那幾千塊錢這個也要我們立法院來善後也就是說為什麼法庭法律省一定要公開因為這些攸關人民權利義務的相關的裁定非常的劇烈我們也希望現在引進國民法官的我們現在的制度"},{"start":29098.076,"end":29117.89,"text":"國民要怎麼當法官 國民要有一定的法律素養才能夠當法官所以社會矚目 重大矚目或重大公益事件這些的公開相關的程序 讓民眾更能夠進一步了解司法的程序在他們被選為國民法官之後 他才有辦法當一個更適人的國民法官"},{"start":29118.59,"end":29136.421,"text":"而事實審的部分我們認為原則上是不公開例外才公開所有例外的條件我們都已經在法條上面解釋得很清楚不會侵害到現有或者是比較影響小的所以不用擔心每個案子都會被公開重要的是這需要當事人的申請還有法官的裁定謝謝黃珊珊委員的發言接下來我們請王逸川委員法院林楚英委員請準備"},{"start":29152.677,"end":29168.767,"text":"好 謝謝主席啊 今天這個案子 國民黨會全部亂講連一天都沒來登記 你現在用罷免的期間法官也說這條不能過 律師也說不能過 檢察官也說不能過這整群人都說不能過 這樣再亂哄哄你還支持去用罷免是剛好而已啦"},{"start":29176.08,"end":29194.91,"text":"今天為什麼這個國衆啊 民眾黨這麼堅持要處理這條很簡單 白話文就是交違犯事件啊 要處罪化這個徵信光碟 重置公開播放 處罪化領綱 法庭啊 地方的錄影 重置 示範帶 處罪化"},{"start":29196.761,"end":29209.046,"text":"這是他們的目的啦,都奇怪,這個公開直播後,有人拿去架,如果要架台,都可以架啊,沒辦法,因為喔,超話叫長啊,架真的大是專長。"},{"start":29211.215,"end":29228.879,"text":"之後整個公省 省下一半 熱熱火火也要注意看直播說我這家庭如果碰下去 出事了啊 整群去公省的檢察官直播的時候 抄襪給我抄襪 整群去公省的檢察官說這樣檢察官耍那個亂狗 可能還要怎樣怎樣怎樣這就是抄襪抄襪的專長啦 我自己記一下就好假設有一個企長叫阿伯"},{"start":29238.191,"end":29251.377,"text":"有一個生理人去送錢給這個阿伯 阿伯剛才正在騎腳踏車騎 騎 騎 要送的錢 這個阿伯說 我沒有在收錢這個送的錢 這個人說 沒關係啦 你收啦這個阿伯喔 就沒說話了 他就沒說話結果 這麼吵吵鬧鬧的 怎麼搞的"},{"start":29262.194,"end":29266.237,"text":"這草莓湯還會說,那個人要送錢的時候,那個阿伯說,我沒有在想這個事情,剛剛這麼說後面,那個阿伯沒說的對不對,阿伯還說,嗯嗯嗯嗯,空的空的空的"},{"start":29277.642,"end":29292.107,"text":"欸!這段是真實的喔!這段是真實的結果,抄襲到廠家的後面,一萬六百下去說你看!阿伯就沒收錢啦!你說不是啊!阿伯那天阿伯說錢放的放,我站在旁邊沒人放的放的啊"},{"start":29294.352,"end":29297.917,"text":"這段都沒出現 你還要跟大家說 沒抄襲到倉庫斷章取義 用這樣不通喔 不會啊因為抄襲到倉庫還有很多假帳號 一直給你圍剿 一直給你用這就是民眾黨這次拿這個案的關鍵啦"},{"start":29310.675,"end":29332.916,"text":"所以你說要公開直播 當場抄襲到場 會亂架 亂證 創造假訊息公審法官 公審檢察官的時候 這個案子我們台灣就不好所以國民黨跟你們投票 你們要注意 你們如果支持這個案子罷免天才火 大罷免大成功啦"},{"start":29336.069,"end":29344.954,"text":"好 謝謝王逸參委員的發言接下來我們請林柱英委員發言范雲委員請準備"},{"start":29358.022,"end":29382.145,"text":"謝謝主席還有我們所有立法院的同仁今天早上可以說是萬里無雲豔陽高照可是就在我們今天下午三點多要準備開會之後我想所有朋友都看到了那就是外面突然烏雲密布甚至於雷雨交加我必須要說我們現在審查這個法案它所代表的就跟我們現在司法的前途一樣"},{"start":29383.615,"end":29400.112,"text":"民眾黨說要讓陽光照進來但我要講這是讓我們的司法更加堪憂本席要強烈的反對那就是所謂公開審理並不表示就一定要隨時直播台灣本來就是公開審判啊"},{"start":29401.823,"end":29427.736,"text":"哪一個審判沒有公開只有中國共產黨才會把你抓樣板來演給大家看但是沒有想到民眾黨居然要提一個跟中國共產黨學習的公開審判的直播我要強調的是台灣的司法一直以來就是公開審判所以本席要強烈的反對法庭不是秀場"},{"start":29428.993,"end":29432.472,"text":"司法的審判不應該透過全程直播的方式"},{"start":29433.786,"end":29457.903,"text":"今天早上我們看到的是國民黨的委員你們到底知不知道在最後一刻在今天中午才拿出來的民眾黨的法案到底內容是什麼在這麼多的法界人士都反對的時候難道你們現在的一個表決真的就要淪為黃國昌腳尾犯示範帶開綠燈的幫手嗎"},{"start":29461.906,"end":29473.24,"text":"要幫黃國昌的腳尾犯來做除罪話嗎所以現在就變成是黃國昌示範帶未來就可以就地合法嗎"},{"start":29474.537,"end":29503.515,"text":"我要提醒國民黨如果你們怕罷免就不應該現在成為民眾黨的附隨小弟這一個充滿爭議未來可能更殘害所有事件當事人甚至於證人的法律跟權利義務的這樣一個法案此刻如果等一下五點鐘的表決你們同流合污"},{"start":29504.415,"end":29528.238,"text":"那麼就更坐實了過去這一直以來藍白聯手不只是在法案在預算殘害國家現在甚至於要把手伸向司法我提醒藍白這一陣子以來聯手因為自己的私利所創造的國家亂象已經讓人民受不了了"},{"start":29529.301,"end":29542.334,"text":"如果說今天在黃國昌的拜託懇求之下國民黨跟著一起聯手那麼民眾只會覺得要終結藍白亂象就只能大罷免謝謝林楚英委員的發言接下來我們請范雲委員請發言 李博議員請準備"},{"start":29558.834,"end":29578.287,"text":"非常遺憾黃國昌再次聯手國民黨綁架立法院踐踏我們的民主傷害我們的專業民眾黨團提出法院組織法修法四月一讀五月進付二讀直到六月還是民進黨的莊瑞雄召委召開公聽會這個法案"},{"start":29580.488,"end":29593.64,"text":"從一讀到今天等一下要表決才短短70天黃國昌宣稱他要推動司法公開透明難道這過程完全不需要民主討論嗎根本沒有在委員會進行審查"},{"start":29596.119,"end":29619.389,"text":"來因因為怕罷免剛剛沒有人敢上台辯護民眾黨剛剛有些人一直宣稱說有很多國家開放什麼然後呢好不斷的在講這樣子理由可是民眾黨沒有一個人可以好好的告訴我們這種立法品質全民能夠接受嗎司法界的質疑你們回應了嗎"},{"start":29620.729,"end":29648.634,"text":"司法公開透明跟法院直播是不一樣的我們現在已經普遍實施公開旁聽法庭全程錄音判決書公開即使是部分有開放的國家也有限制美國聯邦刑事訴訟程序規則規定法庭禁止錄影錄音或直播有開放轉播的部分州大部分排除兒童性侵家庭糾紛等案件"},{"start":29649.474,"end":29669.472,"text":"荷蘭需要逐審法官的許可但是仍然不得對證人鑑定人被害人錄音錄影還明確規定不得向被告請求允許拍攝其影像而歐洲最重視人權的國家多數是沒有這樣子的一種直播的"},{"start":29670.313,"end":29674.714,"text":"台灣到底該怎麼做完全沒有討論多達30個專業團體站出來反對我聽到司法專業團體跟學界非常擔憂他們擔憂的幾個原因第一個恐怕影響公平審判"},{"start":29685.638,"end":29709.254,"text":"第二點 當事人的隱私權 人格權第三點 導致證言的萎縮效應第四點 公開播放可能影響國民法官的心證跟意願第五點 相機的視角的偏見法律系黃鼎軒教授還說現行的旁聽措施已經符合公開審理不宜再擴大等"},{"start":29710.174,"end":29727.97,"text":"日本的研究也發現公開審判的內容可能對被害人的精神和安寧造成傷害不利其回歸社會民眾黨在投票最後一個提再修正動議緊急排除我們最擔心的家事事件包含家暴等但我要以2022年新北市氣性婦人殺婦案為例"},{"start":29729.591,"end":29743.07,"text":"他名義上是國民法官審理的重大刑事案件但實際上是家暴被害人長期受報告的結果如果根據民眾黨等一下看過的條文仍然可能被公開撥送請問他的子女未來"},{"start":29752.5,"end":29782.003,"text":"好謝謝范雲委員的發言接下來李博義委員請發言李昆城委員請準備謝謝各位同仁這個法案"},{"start":29783.985,"end":29808.731,"text":"赤裸裸的台灣民眾黨跟中國國民黨正在用最不民主的方式破壞台灣的民主更想要影響台灣的法治民主跟法治是所有台灣人最珍貴賴以為生喜歡這片土地在這片土地可以安穩生活最重要的兩個指標為什麼"},{"start":29811.564,"end":29837.135,"text":"民眾黨一樣用委員會沒有討論的這個版本在今天早上一個修正動議中午在一個再修正動議國民黨在場沒有委員喔沒有看過這個再修正動議喔他們的訊息是共體時間務必今天下午四點半前進一場待命表決"},{"start":29839.144,"end":29860.843,"text":"再 通過再修正動議喔都不演了欸直接要赤裸裸的用直播企圖影響司法交換他們大罷免得到民眾黨的支持大家都知道 給幾顆而已啊沒救了"},{"start":29866.387,"end":29886.996,"text":"這個案子如果有經過委員會的審議會有很多各方來自法律界包含法官協會、女法官協會、監清檢改協會也就是檢察官協會、全國律師聯合會都提出來表示這個案子不能通過這是有很多問題的"},{"start":29888.513,"end":29912.076,"text":"那黃國昌先生呢 他就說法務部為什麼不提修正草案因為所有法律人都認為這個案子有問題呀你為什麼沒有辦法跟法律人好好務實地進行廣泛的深度討論而要用今天這種方式 聯合中國國民黨強行修過這個法案"},{"start":29913.453,"end":29929.365,"text":"其實法律人都知道你已經被司法工作者排除在法律人之外你也知道你是一個表演工作者而已所以我們今天必須要很嚴肅的告訴全台灣的社會"},{"start":29930.966,"end":29957.368,"text":"黃國昌台灣民眾黨聯合中國國民黨他們正在用國會擴權法案一模一樣的手段企圖讓未來台灣的司法的案件可以透過直播公審證人讓證人不敢出庭讓證人降低他所要作證的這些意願甚至公審法官檢察官這個是"},{"start":29958.169,"end":29975.077,"text":"他們聯合起來要破壞台灣的民主好謝謝李博義委員的發言接下來我們請李坤成委員發言賴銳龍委員請準備"},{"start":29991.403,"end":30009.83,"text":"謝謝主席今天的這個法院組織法的修法那可以說是柯文哲的直播條款那位是柯文哲量身打造的條款通過之後以後就可以來全民公審干預這個金華城案的審判的過程"},{"start":30011.283,"end":30025.762,"text":"這麼重大的一個法案的修正案呢竟然呢又是透過這個再修正動議來提出來那這個再修正動議呢就是今天中午才提出來的那是不是又跟去年"},{"start":30027.063,"end":30043.756,"text":"國民黨民眾黨要通過這個國會擴權法案都是一樣的呢一樣的粗糙把這個再修正動議把它當成是一個最高的機密來處理我們立法院的修法的品質還要這麼的粗糙嗎"},{"start":30045.455,"end":30057.683,"text":"那其實在這個修法之前呢民眾黨的黃國昌委員呢已經先示範了他在立法院質詢的時候呢公開播放所謂的精華程"},{"start":30060.394,"end":30074.26,"text":"這個徵訊的英檔來用這個來批評檢察官的這個問案的語氣然後說呢這個只是一個示範帶那我跟大家講這個法通過之後呢類似這一種示範帶"},{"start":30076.226,"end":30102.155,"text":"以後只會更多不會更少因為以後都直播嘛直播之後呢這個在法庭的影像呢大家透過剪接透過AI的加工透過民意的創作然後呢就可以來這個斷章取義然後來剪輯然後大量的放送來動搖司法的公正性還有民眾對於司法的信任的基礎"},{"start":30103.424,"end":30124.186,"text":"那尤其呢在這個重大的刑事案件或是說重大的社會矚目的案件呢證人或是鑑定人呢有可能面對鏡頭所承受的心理壓力在直播的情況之下會大幅的增加會影響到他作證的意願還有他成功的真實性"},{"start":30125.647,"end":30153.012,"text":"進一步來妨害訴訟的功能所以呢如果今天二讀三讀通過這個法院組織法的修正的法案通過之後呢你我的隱私個資都會被侵犯個案的訴訟程序呢也會大受的干擾所以呢傷害最深的還是司法的公信力還有民眾的訴訟的權益"},{"start":30154.432,"end":30174.166,"text":"但是呢我看今天五點就要表決了而且呢民眾黨已經拜託國民黨要來支持這個法案交換什麼呢交換就是在大罷免的時候來支持國民黨但是我還是要說大罷免大成功謝謝李坤成委員發言接下來我們請賴瑞榮發言林淑芬委員請準備"},{"start":30191.96,"end":30212.612,"text":"主席 各位縣法所規定的立法院的三讀程序就是希望能夠確保我們的法律非常嚴謹的立法但是包括裡面的委員會中心主義都是這樣精神正常的程序應該經過委員會裡面充分的討論然後再進到院會來二讀三讀這才是一個完整的程序"},{"start":30213.232,"end":30234.239,"text":"結果去年一整年的國會亂象國會擴權法案就是不走這個程序而導致的亂象重生就今天再次的證實連所謂的法院組織法這麼重要的一個法律案的時候一樣又把不在委員會內充分的討論直接抽出淨富二讀然後準備在今天直接完成二三讀我們看到"},{"start":30234.739,"end":30249.72,"text":"今天才看到的版本結果早上衝突再提出一個民眾黨的修正動議然後週五再提出一個再修正動議這樣的模式跟去年的狀況一模一樣這就是人民無法接受的國會亂象"},{"start":30250.962,"end":30280.188,"text":"任何的像這樣三個版本就是應該在委員會充分討論這才是一個負責的立法院這才是一個好的立法院結果現在藍白國會所主導下的立法院變成這些全部不在委員會內來討論司法法治委員會充分專業的意見可以邀請更多的專家寫者可以邀請更多的法官律師檢察官更多的學者來充分討論把這個問題好好的談清楚法庭直播"},{"start":30280.748,"end":30300.315,"text":"怎麼做該有相關的配套程序所有的完備了以後再送到院會來二讀三讀但是民眾黨跟國民黨不走此途每次都只想要直接的淨附二讀直接碾壓然後裡面三個版本恐怕國民黨委員都還沒有看清楚他們的版本他就已經準備要來表決了"},{"start":30301.095,"end":30319.167,"text":"我們再次強調這絕對是最糟糕的立法方式而且是人民所無法接受也是人民要發動罷免的關鍵原因我們來看中華民國的法官協會的聲明怎麼說的他說日前這個立法院召開法庭直播的公聽會高院法官"},{"start":30319.927,"end":30348.32,"text":"文嘉倩受邀發表意見結果在會後文法官的發言影片遭到網路的媒體剪輯並與黃國昌委員的發言影片重組附上神仙打架民進黨派出高院媒體法官辯論黃國昌證明對決實力輾壓全場染爆的聳動標籬上傳下面就出現大量謾罵文法官的一個留言不乏人身攻擊性別歧視無謬"},{"start":30349.5,"end":30376.173,"text":"司法的言論這個就是大家擔憂的問題連法官都可以被這樣對待的時候未來的這個法庭的直播難道不會有這樣問題嗎而且他們也點到黃國昌的示範帶的問題這個他們也認為是有誤導視聽同時間也藉由國會質詢來干擾個案之餘所以包括法官協會包括律師包括檢察官大家都反對這樣的充足立法"},{"start":30387.28,"end":30397.325,"text":"好 謝謝賴瑞龍委員的發言接下來我們請林淑芬委員發言 麥玉珍委員請準備更正"},{"start":30398.7,"end":30422.766,"text":"對不起 另外稍等一下我剛剛以為是5點55分 現在是57分特別跟院會報告一下在林淑芬委員發言之前依照黨團共事本案地於下午點進行條文之表決處理廣泛討論我們就進行到林淑芬委員發言完畢為止其餘已登記廣泛討論"},{"start":30425.006,"end":30437.848,"text":"以及逐條討論發言之委員沒有及發言者其書面發言意見均不列入公報記錄現在請林淑芬委員請發言"},{"start":30443.243,"end":30469.603,"text":"好 謝謝這個直播的修法案有人告訴我說委員你為什麼不支持我們在法院裡面經常受到法官的欺負很多的事實的勘驗法官都不予裁理那我要告訴這些人說其實你錯了民眾黨所提的法庭的直播呢基本上一二審的時候原則都不公開直播的"},{"start":30470.003,"end":30498.459,"text":"你以為你的小案件你的個人的案件可以被直播然後你的事實可以被發現然後你可以尋求到這個因為公審法官公審檢察官然後得到你的正義嗎錯了民眾黨的版本就只有兩個條件可以在一二審的時候公開直播第一個條件叫做重大的社會公益第二個條件叫重大的社會矚目可是我們都知道社會矚目"},{"start":30499.48,"end":30517.511,"text":"高度的社會矚目指涉的是什麼除了社會媒體報導的刑事犯罪案件經濟犯罪案件等等之外其實重大的社會矚目說穿了就是為政治人物量身定制"},{"start":30518.411,"end":30528.039,"text":"所以所謂的重大社會矚目最得到便宜的就是為政治人物所得到的特權所以在這個法庭直播裡面其實為了引進全民公審為了強化輿論審判來介入司法審判其實法庭民眾黨的這個修法版本是為了讓法庭的審理成為表演的空間然後成為政治人物的司法特權"},{"start":30546.234,"end":30571.543,"text":"說穿了其實就是為了他們的阿貝阿貝我們都看到了所謂的直播的示範帶了我們也看到了這個剪接AI剪接動搖司法公信力的過程在我們的立法院活脫脫活生生的都演過了所以在這裡我們知道法院的審理是為了發現事實可是呢"},{"start":30572.623,"end":30579.129,"text":"民眾黨的提案的版本是為了妨礙真實的事實被發現是為了助長民粹市的審判的審理我再說一遍這個直播是為政治人物量身定制的司法特權是為了讓法庭的審理再一次的成為表演空間"},{"start":30598.104,"end":30616.486,"text":"所以這不是為人民的這也不是為你被你認為司法制度不公而設計的我再請教一下民眾黨如果你在乎人民請問醫療糾紛鑑定現在沒有醫生願意鑑定你為什麼不站出來馬上立即修法"},{"start":30617.427,"end":30628.153,"text":"司法院裡面透過修法的過程把車禍的民事訴訟一律改為檢疫訴訟審理為什麼不修法而是在修這個好 謝謝林淑芬委員的發言"},{"start":30636.889,"end":30651.301,"text":"報告約會我們現在廣泛討論發言就到此告一段落沒有發言的委員陳儒剛才跟大家所報告的我們就書面發言意見均補列入公報記錄"},{"start":30653.262,"end":30677.618,"text":"現在我們開始進行逐條討論本案僅宣讀院會所收各黨團再修正動議版本其餘提案內容均列入公報記錄各黨團版本進行表決的時候我們依送案先後進行表決如果有一案通過我們就不再處理其他案現在進行第86條請宣讀"},{"start":30680.731,"end":30699.659,"text":"第86條訴訟之辯論及裁判之宣示因公開法庭刑之但有妨害國際安全公共秩序或善良風俗之餘時法院得決定不予公開前項因公開之程序與法庭空間無法容納合理人數時法院得以科技設備將開庭之聲音影響"},{"start":30700.719,"end":30716.965,"text":"傳送至同法院內適當空間之 旁聽其公開行之第84條 第4項 第88條 第89條 第91條 第94條及第95條之規定於前項行公開程序之 法庭准用之宣讀完畢請問院會本條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過有無異議"},{"start":30728.202,"end":30735.597,"text":"請問院會有無異議有異議我們要進行表決我們現在開始按鈴7分鐘並分發表決卡"},{"start":31162.588,"end":31172.396,"text":"好報告院會我們現在進行處理台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第86條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過請問院會有無異議好沒有異議我們第86條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過"},{"start":31189.831,"end":31192.564,"text":"我們現在進行第九十條處理 請宣讀"},{"start":31193.598,"end":31221.645,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團在修正《東一地球十條》法庭開庭時出法律令有規定外應與錄音必要時得與錄影最高法院大法庭於公開行訴訟之言辭辯論及裁判之宣誓時所謂之錄音錄影應以適當方式實施公開播送但有妨害國家安全公共秩序善良風俗或造成個人生命身體隱私或營業秘密重大損害之餘者得裁定不予公開播送"},{"start":31222.285,"end":31238.452,"text":"高等法院、地方法院所為之錄音錄影不予公開播送但選擇涉及重大公共利益或社會矚目之案件得審酌與公共利益之關係審判程序之公平性程序參與人及他人權益之均衡維護等一切情況後"},{"start":31239.572,"end":31264.731,"text":"就於公開行訴訟之言辭辯論及裁判之宣示所謂之錄音錄影一當事人申請會議職權裁定以適當方式實施公開播送前項之裁定得為抗告抗告無理由者抗告法院應以裁定駁回抗告有理由者抗告法院應以裁定將原裁定撤銷並自為裁定前項抗告法院之裁定不得再行抗告"},{"start":31265.471,"end":31293.722,"text":"第二项或第三项公开播送时参与诉讼程序者有正当理由确信公开播送其录音录影有下列进行之一者得以申请会议职权将其录音录影予以变声变相或其他无法直接识别该个人之方式为之一 危害其生命身体自由隐私或财权二 严重影响审判之公平性下列各款据案件不得为第二项或第三项公开播送一"},{"start":31294.682,"end":31317.424,"text":"1.以不公开法庭审理之案件2.适用检疫或相关诉讼程序之民事案件3.适用检疫或交通裁决事件诉讼程序之刑审诉讼案件4.最重本行5年以下有期徒刑之刑事案件5.适用家事事件法、少年事件处理法、智慧残杀案件审理法或商业事件审理法审理之案件"},{"start":31318.244,"end":31337.631,"text":"今第二項第三項合法公開播送之錄音錄影不受第九十條之四之限制法庭錄音錄影公開播送相關事項之辦法由司法院定之宣讀完畢法院會本條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過請問有無異議有異議我們要進行表決"},{"start":31344.025,"end":31358.33,"text":"我們現在要開始進行表決現在台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘贊成台灣民眾黨黨團請按贊成反對請按反對現在開始"},{"start":31451.572,"end":31456.476,"text":"好 抱怨會現在報告表決結果我們現場出席108位委員贊成59位反對49位贊成者多數"},{"start":31467.878,"end":31497.561,"text":"第九十條 照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過報言會現在我們進行第九十一條請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第九十一條法庭開庭時應保持宿敬不得有大聲交談、鼓唱、吸煙、飲食物品自行攝影、錄音、錄影及其他妨害法庭秩序或不當行為違反前項規定者審判長得命期停止該行為禁止其進入法庭"},{"start":31497.961,"end":31498.101,"text":"保援會"},{"start":31518.57,"end":31545.698,"text":"本條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過請問有無異議沒有異議第九十一條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過報議會現在進行第九十三條請宣讀台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第九十三條審判長為第九十一條及第九十二條之處分時應命記名其事由於筆錄宣讀完畢報議會"},{"start":31548.274,"end":31564.648,"text":"本條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過請問院會有無異議沒有異議本案第93條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過報案院會我們現在進行第115條請宣讀"},{"start":31568.137,"end":31582.891,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議第115條本法自公佈日施行中華民國105年5月27日修正式條文自106年1月1日施行中華民國107年12月7日修正式條文自公佈後6月施行"},{"start":31583.391,"end":31612.131,"text":"中华民国110年11月23日修正之条文除增订第七条之一至第七条之十一自111年1月4日施行外自公布日施行中华民国111年5月31日修正之条文除第17条第17条之一第18条及第37条自公布日施行外其施行日期由司法院定之中华民国114年6月27日修正之条文自公布后三个月施行"},{"start":31612.673,"end":31612.959,"text":"學童還被"},{"start":31614.199,"end":31638.943,"text":"請問院會本條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過請問有無異議有異議我們要進行表決我們現在開始進行表決台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文現在有民進黨要求記名表決我們開始現在表決贊成台灣民眾黨黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":31730.643,"end":31738.629,"text":"好 報告宴會現在報告表決結果我們出席108位委員贊成59位反對49位贊成者多數第115條照台灣民眾黨黨團在修正動議條文通過"},{"start":31756.124,"end":31758.829,"text":"本院會全案經過二讀現有台灣民眾黨黨團體繼續進行三讀請問院會有無異議有異議我們院有異議現在進行表決針對"},{"start":31770.543,"end":31772.825,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提議繼續進行三讀現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決贊成臺灣民眾黨黨團請按贊成反對請按反對時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":31885.531,"end":31885.912,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝謝謝"},{"start":31897.509,"end":31902.172,"text":"現在報告表決結果出席108位贊成59位反對49位棄權0位贊成者多數我們現在做一下宣告本案繼續進行三讀請宣讀經過二讀這條文"},{"start":31920.936,"end":31945.237,"text":"第86條訴訟之辯論及裁判之宣示應公開法庭行之但有妨害國家安全公共秩序或善良風俗之餘時法院的決定不予公開前項應公開之程序與法庭空間無法容納合理人數時法院得以科技設備將開庭之聲音影像傳送至同法院內適當空間之旁聽其公開行之"},{"start":31945.897,"end":31968.537,"text":"第84條第4項第88條第89條第91條第94條及第95條之規定於前項行公開程序之法庭轉用之第90條法庭開庭時處法律令有規定外應與錄音必要時等於錄影最高法院大法庭於公開行訴訟之言辭辯論及裁判之宣誓時"},{"start":31969.258,"end":31997.717,"text":"所谓之录音录影应以适当方式实施公开播送但有妨害国家安全公共秩序善良风俗或造成个人生命身体隐私或营业秘密重大损害之余者得裁定不予公开播送高等法院地方法院所谓之录音录影不予公开播送但人理涉及重大公共利益或社会瞩目之案件得选择与公共利益之关系审判程序之公平性"},{"start":31998.337,"end":32013.167,"text":"程序参与人及他人权益之均衡维护等一切情况后就于公开行诉讼之言辞辩论及裁判之宣示所谓之录音录影依当事人申请或依职权裁定以适当方式实施公开播送"},{"start":32014.168,"end":32039.206,"text":"前項之裁定得為抗告抗告無理由者抗告法院應以裁定駁回抗告有理由者抗告法院應以裁定將原裁定撤銷並自為裁定前項抗告法院之裁定不得再行抗告為第二項或第三項公開播送時參與訴訟程序者有正當理由確信公開播送其錄音錄影有下列情形之意者得以申請會議職權"},{"start":32040.467,"end":32061.274,"text":"将其录音录影予以变声变相或其他无法直接识别该个人之方式为之一 危害其生命身体自由隐私或财权二 严重影响审判之公平性下列更换之案件不得为第二项或第三项公开播送一 依法以不公开法庭审理之案件"},{"start":32062.594,"end":32066.217,"text":"2.適用檢疫或小文訴訟程序之民事案件3."},{"start":32066.217,"end":32071.78,"text":"適用檢疫或交通裁決事件訴訟程序之行政訴訟案件4."},{"start":32071.78,"end":32075.382,"text":"最重本行5年以下有期徒刑之刑事案件5."},{"start":32075.382,"end":32088.551,"text":"適用家事事件法、少年事件處理法、智慧殘血案件審理法或商業事件審理法審理之案件經第二項第三項合法公開播送之錄音錄影不受第90條之四之限制"},{"start":32090.083,"end":32106.6,"text":"法庭錄音錄影公開播送相關事上之辦法由司法院定之第九十一條法庭開庭時應保持宿敬不得有大聲交談鼓掌吸煙飲食物品自行攝影錄音錄影及其他妨害法庭秩序或不當行為"},{"start":32107.661,"end":32125.249,"text":"違反前項規定者審判長得命其停止該行為禁止其進入法庭或命其退出法庭必要時得命看管至必停時其以攝影錄音或錄影者審判長得命其消除該攝影錄音或錄影之內容前項處分不得聲明不符"},{"start":32125.709,"end":32141.509,"text":"前三項之規定與審判長在法庭外執行職務時准用之第九十三條審判長為第九十一條及第九十二條之處分時應命記名其順由與筆錄第一百十五條本法自公佈日施行"},{"start":32141.989,"end":32158.986,"text":"中華民國105年5月27日修正式條文自106年1月1日施行中華民國107年12月7日修正式條文自公佈後6個月施行中華民國110年11月23日修正式條文處增訂地7條之1之第7條之11自111年1月4日施行為"},{"start":32162.589,"end":32182.719,"text":"自公佈日申請中華民國111年5月31日修正這條文除第17條第17條之一第18條及第37條自公佈日申請外其施行日期由司法院定之中華民國114年6月27日修正這條文自公佈後三個月施行宣讀完畢"},{"start":32183.564,"end":32183.944,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":32202.765,"end":32212.129,"text":"全案通過者請按贊成反對者請按反對棄權者請按棄權現在有民進黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團要求記名表決我們開始進行記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32294.261,"end":32295.922,"text":"現在我們做以下決議法院組織法第86條第90條第91條第93條及第115條條文修正通過"},{"start":32325.821,"end":32341.167,"text":"現在本院有黃國昌委員等人針對本案三讀之決議提出附議並請院會隨即表決處理我們現在進行處理本件附議案"},{"start":32342.515,"end":32355.782,"text":"現在我們要進行表決針對黃國昌委員等人所提復議案現有民進黨黨團要求記名表決我們記名表決時間一分鐘現在開始"},{"start":32429.468,"end":32448.177,"text":"法院會報告表決結果 在場委員108位贊成49位 反對59位 贊成者少數 附議案不通過法院會 我們現在進行完成立法程序後之委員發言並截止登記第一位 我們請陳培宇委員請發言 劉書斌委員請準備"},{"start":32470.128,"end":32489.084,"text":"好 我們現在請陳培宇委員發言好 謝謝院長三讀後的發言我想民進黨團還是要堅決的表達我們的立場因為在立法院呢出現一個非常神奇的立法委員那個人自詡為法學博士他叫黃國昌那個之前修國會擴權修到被大法官宣告違憲的也是黃國昌"},{"start":32490.245,"end":32505.372,"text":"在司法法治委員會丟出示範帶他的同事張祺凱說聽了很多次的那個人依然叫黃國昌黃國昌在今天跟國民黨一起提出了這個修正法案我們感到非常非常的遺憾所有法學專業的呼籲"},{"start":32506.673,"end":32530.07,"text":"所有法學專業的提醒他們完全不聽他們不把法官不把檢察官不把律師不把相關學者專家不把所有人的呼籲放在心裡也不願意聽進去他們決意堅持這麼做他們甚至還私下協議認為這樣的修法有助於他們的大罷免我真的不知道他們是怎麼想的"},{"start":32530.951,"end":32554.506,"text":"大概是因為他們不尊重專業他們也不願意傾聽民意所以才會有今天這個結果我們當然感到非常的遺憾我們也呼籲所有的公民所有關心相關議題的學者專家持續站出來呼籲持續站出來對話因為傲慢的民眾黨還有傲慢的國民黨他們已經沒有把人民放在眼裡沒有放在心裡而今天過後"},{"start":32555.146,"end":32572.009,"text":"所有可能發生的病都有他們必須概括承受就像我想要問所有之後被拿去做後製剪接濫用這些影像現在沒有相關的下架機制沒有相關的檢核機制如果有人因此被誤會了"},{"start":32572.83,"end":32595.717,"text":"人因此被影響了請問相關的公正公義公平是誰要還給他而民眾黨今天提出來的版本讓人感到非常的傷心跟失望是他們加速司法的不透明是他們加速司法的黑箱黃國昌你們口口聲聲說陽光要照進司法我想要問陽光有照進我們司法法是委員會的嗎你們近乎二讀"},{"start":32600.575,"end":32603.599,"text":"好 謝謝陳培原發言接下來我們請劉淑斌發言人 張啟凱為請準備"},{"start":32622.914,"end":32640.26,"text":"好高喔 好像不行等一下 抱歉朱熹非常好"},{"start":32641.175,"end":32651.982,"text":"主席、各位委員,今天立法院三讀通過的《法院組織法》有關於法庭直播的修正條文包括了86條、90條、91、93和115條,標誌著我國的司法公開邁出了關鍵的一步"},{"start":32661.307,"end":32666.77,"text":"這次修法明確將直播的範圍限縮在重大的公共事件上面並排除了國家安全、家事和個人的隱私等敏感案件是在保障人權之間和提升司法透明之間取得的平衡"},{"start":32680.818,"end":32706.589,"text":"長期以來 人民對司法不公平 不透明判決難以理解 甚至懷疑有黑箱作業的疑慮透過這項制度 法庭不再只是少數人的空間而是全民都能夠見證的公共場域這將有助於司法信任的提升讓正義看得見 也看得懂"},{"start":32707.469,"end":32731.024,"text":"更重要的是法庭直播不只是技術的改變更是一種民主政治法治教育的實踐讓年輕的世代社會大眾能夠直接觀察司法如何運作深化對法治精神的理解是司法改革的具體成果"},{"start":32732.503,"end":32752.877,"text":"感謝所有參與立法修法工作審查的同仁委員這是一個值得令人民肯定的進步民進黨跳票 民政黨做到民進黨跳票 民眾黨做到大家一起加油促進司法改革走向第一步 謝謝謝謝劉淑檳委員的發言"},{"start":32759.687,"end":32762.293,"text":"我們接下來請張祺凱委員發言 麥義忠委員請準備"},{"start":32775.356,"end":32801.199,"text":"陽光終於照進了法庭民進黨跳票8年的承諾今天台灣民眾黨幫它實現了陽光照進法庭以後很多的冤案 弊案終於重現天日了遺憾的是民進黨今天還一直在造謠想把陽光擋在法院之外"},{"start":32802.643,"end":32825.442,"text":"現在為什麼要做司法的改革 要法庭直播呢你從民調裡面看得清清楚楚高達接近六成的民眾認為政治干涉了司法那清德和賴總統上任一周年的時候民調做的最被人民過病 最不滿的就是司法改革了"},{"start":32825.942,"end":32841.447,"text":"結果民進黨今天還一直造謠一直導陽光照進法庭還一直被被捕 被尿讓人家生氣的是民進黨竟然到今天表決前還搞不清楚"},{"start":32842.765,"end":32856.782,"text":"全世界很多國家都一定有法庭直播了全世界七大州只有南極州沒有結果今天柯建明柯總召竟然還在講只有共產國家有一個"},{"start":32860.124,"end":32877.513,"text":"組黨國會改革一個不願意在多數民眾的支持的角度的民進黨已經離民眾非常非常遙遠了他們今天跳票的台灣民眾黨做到了有包括最高法院大法庭的錄音錄影以公開為原則"},{"start":32879.514,"end":32899.222,"text":"然後在高等法院地方法院的錄音錄影以不公開原則可是呢如果涉及重大的公益或者是社會重大的矚目是可以公開的這次的法案我們是依照2017年的司法改革會議做了非常理性溫和的改革很期待"},{"start":32910.318,"end":32914.468,"text":"謝謝張祺凱委員的發言接下來我們請麥義正委員發言黃國昌委員請準備"},{"start":32923.322,"end":32950.243,"text":"主席各位親愛的家人大家好今天三途通過的法院組織法推這個不是新的概念是我們終於兌現了一個長年推動的司法改革的承諾早在106年總統總統府司法改革國事會議就已結議法院延遲辯論"},{"start":32951.784,"end":32968.147,"text":"因全面直播當時蔡英文總統也曾表態支持可惜多年來這個像共識終於沒有落實甚至被執政黨冷漠處理今天我們不是把法庭變明嘴節目"},{"start":32969.128,"end":32984.762,"text":"而不是直播所有的案件我們主張的是有條件的公開播送針對重大公共利益的案件特別是在事實審理階段給人民一個看見的真相"},{"start":32985.803,"end":33001.489,"text":"限制司法的機會過去像馬英九總統泄密案就曾出現依偎難求的排隊潮旁聽制度根本無法應付人民對透明的渴望如今通過技術的手段"},{"start":33001.969,"end":33013.722,"text":"我們可以做得更好司法的公開歐洲新加坡早已走到前頭台灣沒理由自我設限人民人權之道法院怎麼問辨識雙方怎麼辨真相如何澄清這不是對法官的保障更是對人民知情權"},{"start":33022.771,"end":33044.848,"text":"公民權的具體呈現司法改革不能只是口號我們願意跨越黨派共同為人民打開法庭的門讓我們一起說黑箱判斷不再有市場公開透明才是改革的開始台灣加油 謝謝大家"},{"start":33046.749,"end":33048.29,"text":"好 謝謝麥議員的發言接下來我們請登記最後一位黃國昌委員請發言"},{"start":33077.796,"end":33104.149,"text":"院長 本院委員2017年私改國事會議針對有關於法庭公開播送的問題在許一秀大法官擔任召集人的小組做成了應該予以公開播送的決議八年的時間過去了"},{"start":33107.661,"end":33136.2,"text":"當初承諾台灣人民要讓陽光照進法庭的蔡英文總統到了現在的2025年我們卻看到民主進步黨的立委為了要抗拒改革什麼樣子抹黑什麼樣子污衊的話都說得出來"},{"start":33138.317,"end":33165.454,"text":"儘管如此對台灣民眾黨而言對的是人民支持的是全力推動這也是為什麼在過去這段時間當中我們做了兩次大規模全國的民調也虛心的聆聽各界的意見"},{"start":33167.233,"end":33194.405,"text":"把有關於法庭直播相關的考慮都融入了我們的再修正動議當年在沒有法律明確授權的情況下有三位勇敢的法官裁定蘇炳坤的案子應該要法庭直播今天我們給了這樣子的陽光明確的法律依據"},{"start":33195.717,"end":33218.113,"text":"我們希望陽光跟透明能夠重拾人民對司法的信心謝謝黃國昌委員的發言報告院會依照黨團共識本日會議進行到此為止7月1號星期二上午9點繼續開會進行後續討論事項現在休息"}]}},{"id":"162911","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162911","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bd4104f6797845426ec7d5cee56e41a118eb8240b567cfcf3d78715d6c8b9ab21177a1dd1b6395705ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"09:03:58 - 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