{"total":{"value":24,"relation":"eq"},"page":1,"limit":100,"date":["2025-10-03"],"total_page":1,"ivods":[{"id":"16920","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16920","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea79c245159e3d3dfead74b5cad2e326772eb94a68550f7b5bb0167713d2736bb85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-10-03T13:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院內政委員會報告併案審查行政院函請審議、委員林宜瑾等22人、委員賴惠員等21人及委員鄭天財SraKacaw等19人分別擬具「平埔原住民族群身分法草案」案。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-10-03","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-10-03T12:30:55+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T13:24:00+08:00","duration":3185,"影片長度":"00:53:05","委員發言時間":"12:30:55 - 13:24:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"committees":[15],"type":"黨團協商","title":"立法院朝野黨團協商","id":"黨團協商-2025093054","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1972.6172187500001,"end":1972.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1975.0640937500002,"end":1975.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1978.3040937500002,"end":1983.3834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1984.0584687500002,"end":1997.8790937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1998.19971875,"end":2003.5153437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2004.9328437500003,"end":2005.8440937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2006.7047187500002,"end":2008.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2008.5440937500002,"end":2009.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2011.8515937500001,"end":2015.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2016.4415937500003,"end":2018.5172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2018.8884687500001,"end":2020.5084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2020.84596875,"end":2026.6847187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2026.9378437500002,"end":2031.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2032.1522187500002,"end":2035.2909687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2035.9997187500003,"end":2038.3453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2039.7290937500002,"end":2040.0665937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2040.4209687500002,"end":2046.0740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2046.4959687500002,"end":2050.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2051.2547187500004,"end":2057.4140937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2058.2578437500006,"end":2060.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2061.3122187500003,"end":2065.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2065.7840937500005,"end":2069.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2069.5134687500004,"end":2071.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2072.7872187499997,"end":2073.5465937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2076.01034375,"end":2076.7528437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2077.49534375,"end":2081.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2082.22034375,"end":2085.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2085.62909375,"end":2087.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2088.41346875,"end":2104.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2106.84096875,"end":2109.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2111.49846875,"end":2113.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2114.0465937500003,"end":2117.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2116.9490937500004,"end":2116.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2117.80971875,"end":2120.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2121.1172187500006,"end":2122.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2122.33221875,"end":2124.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2125.89284375,"end":2126.6015937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2127.34409375,"end":2129.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2130.2128437500005,"end":2131.0059687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2131.5965937500005,"end":2132.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2133.43596875,"end":2135.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2135.89971875,"end":2140.0340937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2140.55721875,"end":2143.0547187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2143.44284375,"end":2145.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2146.7165937500004,"end":2147.6953437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2148.80909375,"end":2150.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2150.96909375,"end":2158.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2158.74846875,"end":2161.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2161.8028437500006,"end":2163.6590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2161.88721875,"end":2162.1403437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2163.86159375,"end":2165.7178437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2166.29159375,"end":2169.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2171.57346875,"end":2190.7772187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2190.8278437500003,"end":2200.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2201.2734687500006,"end":2207.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2207.43284375,"end":2208.3272187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2208.93471875,"end":2217.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2218.0134687500004,"end":2219.0428437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2220.22409375,"end":2284.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2284.33221875,"end":2324.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2325.1022187500002,"end":2325.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2326.21596875,"end":2328.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2330.28284375,"end":2334.1472187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2334.3328437500004,"end":2356.6922187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2339.17596875,"end":2339.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2357.01284375,"end":2360.6072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2360.8603437500005,"end":2369.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2369.3653437500006,"end":2373.8709687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2374.15784375,"end":2398.2890937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2398.79534375,"end":2401.2253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2406.50721875,"end":2407.4522187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2407.9922187500006,"end":2408.8190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2409.69659375,"end":2411.5359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2412.22784375,"end":2412.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2412.9365937500006,"end":2415.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2416.09221875,"end":2417.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2418.60659375,"end":2421.7115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2422.3359687500006,"end":2424.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2424.9684687500003,"end":2425.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2426.2509687500005,"end":2430.1153437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2430.4022187500004,"end":2430.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2431.65096875,"end":2433.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2433.76034375,"end":2434.5028437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2434.94159375,"end":2435.7009687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2435.8865937500004,"end":2437.6415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2437.97909375,"end":2440.1053437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2440.4597187500003,"end":2443.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2443.68284375,"end":2446.3659687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2446.75409375,"end":2447.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2448.81284375,"end":2449.4372187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2449.84221875,"end":2452.0359687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2452.2890937500006,"end":2453.4365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2453.92596875,"end":2456.1872187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2456.59221875,"end":2459.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2460.08534375,"end":2465.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2465.75534375,"end":2469.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2469.8728437500004,"end":2472.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2473.82159375,"end":2475.76221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2476.0997187500006,"end":2477.3990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2477.85471875,"end":2478.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2479.2215937500005,"end":2482.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2483.23784375,"end":2487.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2488.1990937500004,"end":2488.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2489.2115937500002,"end":2493.8522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2494.98284375,"end":2498.8640937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2497.9022187500004,"end":2498.0372187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2498.8809687500006,"end":2499.3534687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2499.45471875,"end":2501.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2502.6609687500004,"end":2506.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2506.8290937500005,"end":2511.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2509.4784687500005,"end":2510.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2512.1953437500006,"end":2513.6297187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2514.03471875,"end":2518.7090937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2519.01284375,"end":2520.8184687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2521.39221875,"end":2523.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2523.9403437500005,"end":2526.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2527.39971875,"end":2528.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2529.3065937500005,"end":2532.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2533.23846875,"end":2533.7615937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2534.09909375,"end":2535.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2535.8034687500003,"end":2537.6934687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2538.3347187500003,"end":2540.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2540.5622187500003,"end":2541.3553437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2541.9459687500002,"end":2546.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2547.0084687500002,"end":2547.8015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2548.67909375,"end":2552.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2552.6278437500005,"end":2553.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2553.8934687500005,"end":2554.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2555.07471875,"end":2556.3572187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2556.7115937500002,"end":2559.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2560.44096875,"end":2561.3015937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2561.80784375,"end":2564.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2565.72284375,"end":2566.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2567.6803437500002,"end":2569.6884687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2571.3084687500004,"end":2571.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2572.84409375,"end":2576.1853437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2576.69159375,"end":2577.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2578.6659687500005,"end":2579.7965937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2580.3365937500002,"end":2583.4247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2583.9140937500006,"end":2584.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2585.19659375,"end":2587.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2588.99346875,"end":2590.5290937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2590.93409375,"end":2591.8115937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2592.3347187500003,"end":2593.4822187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2594.0897187500004,"end":2597.1778437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2598.39284375,"end":2599.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2600.01284375,"end":2601.6159687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2602.54409375,"end":2604.7040937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2605.1934687500006,"end":2606.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2607.37034375,"end":2610.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2610.4753437500003,"end":2611.0828437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2611.30221875,"end":2612.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2613.34409375,"end":2614.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2614.8122187500003,"end":2616.2128437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2616.8034687500003,"end":2619.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2620.1784687500003,"end":2622.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2623.04721875,"end":2625.9665937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2626.72596875,"end":2627.8565937500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2628.34596875,"end":2630.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2631.7547187500004,"end":2636.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2636.80034375,"end":2638.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2638.79159375,"end":2640.9178437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2641.1540937500004,"end":2649.2372187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2649.7265937500006,"end":2652.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2653.1015937500006,"end":2656.7803437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2657.2528437500005,"end":2660.6278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2661.5390937500006,"end":2665.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2665.60596875,"end":2668.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2669.09909375,"end":2671.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2671.57971875,"end":2684.3034687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2685.1472187500003,"end":2685.5859687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.29034375,"end":2687.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2687.7965937500003,"end":2694.7490937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2687.83034375,"end":2688.5390937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2693.5340937500005,"end":2694.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2694.71534375,"end":2695.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2695.1540937500004,"end":2698.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2695.2215937500005,"end":2695.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2696.7234687500004,"end":2697.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2698.4109687500004,"end":2701.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2701.8365937500002,"end":2705.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2704.9922187500006,"end":2706.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2706.22409375,"end":2708.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2707.05096875,"end":2708.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2708.6709687500006,"end":2711.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2711.4384687500005,"end":2712.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2713.39596875,"end":2717.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2714.47596875,"end":2714.7459687500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2715.3028437500006,"end":2715.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2715.91034375,"end":2715.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":2715.99471875,"end":2716.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2716.04534375,"end":2716.0790937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":2717.1590937500005,"end":2721.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2721.81659375,"end":2731.2159687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2731.18221875,"end":2738.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2732.0934687500003,"end":2733.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2734.13534375,"end":2736.9365937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2738.0165937500005,"end":2738.3203437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2738.3203437500006,"end":2738.4890937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2738.4890937500004,"end":2739.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2739.9403437500005,"end":2741.5097187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2741.17221875,"end":2745.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2745.7115937500002,"end":2747.9559687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2746.60596875,"end":2750.4197187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2748.95159375,"end":2749.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2749.44096875,"end":2749.4578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2749.4578437500004,"end":2754.2334687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2753.2040937500005,"end":2755.6003437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2754.6553437500006,"end":2757.3047187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2755.6003437500003,"end":2755.8028437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2757.4228437500005,"end":2760.0047187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":2760.4940937500005,"end":2764.9997187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2765.87721875,"end":2772.1378437500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2769.80909375,"end":2770.6022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2772.1378437500007,"end":2773.5722187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2774.14596875,"end":2776.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2775.58034375,"end":2777.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2776.2722187500003,"end":2777.9765937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2777.9765937500006,"end":2778.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2778.06096875,"end":2778.1453437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2778.29721875,"end":2778.3984687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2778.3984687500006,"end":2778.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2778.41534375,"end":2778.9215937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2778.43221875,"end":2778.4659687500007},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2779.25909375,"end":2779.3434687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2779.3434687500003,"end":2780.1365937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":2779.37721875,"end":2779.5965937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2781.2334687500006,"end":2781.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2781.92534375,"end":2783.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2783.47784375,"end":2784.9459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2786.9372187500003,"end":2788.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2789.28284375,"end":2789.9578437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2790.64971875,"end":2791.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2791.5440937500007,"end":2796.7247187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2797.34909375,"end":2797.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2798.0915937500004,"end":2808.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2803.6940937500003,"end":2804.7909687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2806.5290937500004,"end":2808.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2809.1784687500003,"end":2809.4990937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2810.17409375,"end":2812.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2813.78534375,"end":2816.6034687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2816.75534375,"end":2820.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2822.7459687500004,"end":2825.1084687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2824.5515937500004,"end":2824.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2825.31096875,"end":2838.1022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2827.58909375,"end":2827.9265937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2827.9265937500004,"end":2827.9434687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2827.9434687500006,"end":2827.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2838.38909375,"end":2845.4090937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2845.67909375,"end":2861.6765937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2863.44846875,"end":2866.3340937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2866.6884687500005,"end":2873.2022187500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2873.57346875,"end":2881.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2882.02784375,"end":2883.29346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2884.37346875,"end":2896.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2896.65846875,"end":2897.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2897.68784375,"end":2919.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2919.67596875,"end":2919.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2919.99659375,"end":2924.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2924.7722187500003,"end":2928.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2928.31596875,"end":2929.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2929.58159375,"end":2933.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2933.6990937500004,"end":2941.4278437500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2939.6728437500005,"end":2939.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2940.0947187500005,"end":2940.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2941.3097187500007,"end":2941.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2941.63034375,"end":2943.9422187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2944.76909375,"end":2945.6465937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2945.9334687500004,"end":2947.7559687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2949.15659375,"end":2956.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2956.9697187500005,"end":2959.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2960.19284375,"end":2962.9940937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2963.2978437500005,"end":2965.1540937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2965.44096875,"end":2969.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2969.7272187500002,"end":2970.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2971.9209687500006,"end":2973.8953437500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2977.8103437500004,"end":2987.2265937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2987.9353437500004,"end":2991.6815937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2990.85471875,"end":2992.3903437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2992.60971875,"end":2995.1072187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2995.5459687500006,"end":2996.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2996.96346875,"end":2997.7565937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2998.6172187500006,"end":2999.9840937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":2999.4440937500003,"end":3000.0684687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3005.7722187500003,"end":3007.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3008.7928437500004,"end":3011.6784687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3008.89409375,"end":3009.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3013.6865937500006,"end":3014.8172187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3014.8847187500005,"end":3016.3190937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3015.8465937500005,"end":3016.9772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3016.9940937500005,"end":3034.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3035.1853437500004,"end":3040.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3040.93971875,"end":3041.5809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3040.95659375,"end":3041.6484687500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3041.6484687500006,"end":3041.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3042.0534687500003,"end":3042.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3042.7959687500006,"end":3044.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3044.50034375,"end":3073.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3084.76409375,"end":3085.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3085.89471875,"end":3087.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3087.2109687500006,"end":3088.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3087.54846875,"end":3088.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3088.08846875,"end":3088.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3088.56096875,"end":3088.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3088.5778437500003,"end":3089.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3088.5947187500005,"end":3098.5847187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3091.14284375,"end":3091.4128437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3099.15846875,"end":3101.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3101.3184687500006,"end":3105.3515937500006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3108.13596875,"end":3108.1697187500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3108.1697187500004,"end":3108.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3109.04721875,"end":3109.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3109.77284375,"end":3111.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3111.29159375,"end":3113.1140937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":3112.1015937500006,"end":3112.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3113.26596875,"end":3115.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":3115.9659687500007,"end":3116.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3126.1247187500003,"end":3128.0653437500005}],"whisperx":[{"start":1357.083,"end":1357.426,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":1615.157,"end":1615.74,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":1972.633,"end":1975.454,"text":"好大家請坐"},{"start":1978.339,"end":2007.668,"text":"好我們現在開始開會今天進行黨團協商法案平埔原住民族群身份法草案本法案於114年7月30日星期三本院內政委員會第11屆第三會期第32次全體委員會議審查完略決議交黨團協商源於本次會議進行黨團協商現在介紹在場委員及行政機關列席代表委員部分首先王美惠委員林一錦委員高金素美委員"},{"start":2008.646,"end":2034.872,"text":"以及鄭天才委員行政機關 我們原住民組委員會 曾志勇組委內政部 護政司 陳永志司長法務部 謝志明參事教育部 綜合規劃師 魏仕哲 檢任秘書經濟部 經濟法治司 林雨欣 專門委員交通部 法治處 許鴻達處長衛生福利部 林靜儀 政務次長文化部 綜合規劃師 廖妮妮 專門委員國發會 社會發展處 施奶園 專門委員"},{"start":2039.79,"end":2054.659,"text":"好本日協商會議為節省各位黨團代表寶貴時間提升協商效率本席就在此建議我們委員會審查有共識的條文我們就照案通過我們今天請就委員會審查保留的第二條跟第23條進行協商討論請問在場協商代表有異議"},{"start":2058.325,"end":2086.285,"text":"好謝謝那我們就照剛剛宣告通過現在進行保留條文第二條第二條的協商我們請問各位黨團協商代表針對第二條的部分有沒有意見或者是有事情要發表的請林議員謝謝主席喔因為這裡原民會已經有給了比較適合的這個附帶決議的寫法我想大家就可以參考這個審查會原民會給的意見那基本上"},{"start":2088.447,"end":2116.7,"text":"那個就是我是認為重點還是要看那個平埔原住民整體的人口增長也就是說這幾年登記的人數在決定有沒有設置平埔原委員會的必要性那原則上就是遵照院版以上 謝謝好 針對第二條部分請鄭天才委員這個第二條要設置平埔原住民族群委會"},{"start":2118.441,"end":2141.52,"text":"這個是本席的善意因為這個在一個機關因為人口出估了是98萬或超過100萬的可能性是很大的那剛才這個林委員特別提到就看後續的人口的這個實際登記人數這個可以這個我們"},{"start":2147.293,"end":2169.674,"text":"希望這個如果人口很多我們當然就希望能夠成立這個是後續不會影響今天的今天就算這個條文通過未來還是可以修好 以上 謝謝我們就先照驗版了好 謝謝鄭天才委員還有沒有行政機關代表或者是各黨團代表要發言的"},{"start":2171.598,"end":2199.835,"text":"沒有好那我們就謝謝大家因為我們都知道這個法案是有時間上的緊迫性因為有限判這個地方所以希望可以趕快來做處理那如果在委員會可以全部達成共識包含在協商計畫達成共識最好所以謝謝我們鄭天才委員的體諒跟成全這我們也相信這未來有靠有需要的時候我們希望原住民族委員會這個隨時來做檢討必要的時候要成立相關的機關以確保平埔原住民族的這樣的一個權益那麼我們第二條就照行政院版通過請問各位有異議"},{"start":2202.066,"end":2218.103,"text":"謝謝 那現在進入第23條23條的內容是在這個相關辦法跟執法的時間嘛那到底要幾年內來做處理嘛那大家還有一些起義 請問各黨團協商代表有沒有意見要發表的來 請林議員"},{"start":2220.507,"end":2240.106,"text":"謝謝主席這條的針點有兩點一個當然就是政定台委員的制定平埔原基法那第二個就是本席呼籲的一年內要更快檢討制定相關法規那我想制定這個平埔原基法的部分是抵觸大法官所認為的任何一支台灣南島"},{"start":2241.568,"end":2260.769,"text":"語氣的民族都是原住民的這個概念這是我的個人看法原住民同為原住民你有兩個基本法是很奇怪可是我認為在後續法規跟政策的制定其實也不會如同鄭天才委員所說的會比較快因為反而我們要先等一步"},{"start":2261.289,"end":2289.078,"text":"評普原基法出來然後大家再依據這個精神下去調試法規這樣會比較快嗎應該看起來是存疑的所以不如就讓原民會即刻先進行法規研修動作那再來我覺得我們要盡到對評普原住民的保障以及他的證明父權更積極的動作是應該進行各項政策的調試盤點到底哪些要逐步去積極矯正一些這些所謂的其他民主對原住民主的資源"},{"start":2290.858,"end":2307.529,"text":"掠奪等等我想正因為這個身份法制其實已經拖了三年所以我也不希望說這個權力法規再拖所以我會主張一年內是這個意思可是如果說堅持這樣一定要一年內讓行政機關很難調適的話當然我不會堅持一定要一年"},{"start":2316.395,"end":2328.307,"text":"還是讓行政機關好做事為主喔那可是未來這個後續的監督我當然不會缺席喔所以基本上我也是就是遵照願板以上好我們請高晶素美委員然後鄭天才委員請"},{"start":2330.579,"end":2348.656,"text":"我想在曾天才委員說明完畢之後我希望委員會能夠完整的說明一下就是說我們這個評普法如果按照行政院的版本通過之後因為我知道大概有300多條的法律需要修正"},{"start":2349.336,"end":2362.749,"text":"這是其一 其二如果這個法律通過了之後 園民會你們內部的人員是不是可以來調整 或者是你們未來要有什麼作為既然已經沒有所謂的這個第二條的那個"},{"start":2365.392,"end":2388.748,"text":"就是主管機關是在園民會不在其他然後再來就是也沒有所謂的這個鄭天才委員所講的要用其他的來法律來規定那園民會你們有什麼做法我覺得今天在法律協商的同時呢園民會也必須要完整的說明讓平埔族群也讓我們立法委員們清楚知道"},{"start":2389.208,"end":2417.54,"text":"往後你們在這個法律案通過之後你們有什麼因應的措施跟完整對平埔族人的交代好不好 謝謝好 謝謝高金素美委員鄭天才委員有請基本上因為我從過去從台灣省政府到中央嚴明會然後再當立法委員"},{"start":2418.649,"end":2446.843,"text":"對於原住民族相關的這些法例我非常的了解然後就算我們以現在的行政版本來看雖然是很好但是會對平埔原住民來講相關的潛意的保障就要花很多很多的時間他要去跟相關的部會因為這個法例"},{"start":2449.134,"end":2476.937,"text":"跟原住民族 現在的原住民的法例不是只有嚴明會的法例還有很多相關部會的法例所以我才會很善意的希望直接制定平埔原住民族群基本法這樣的話就可以直接去盤點直接去盤點因為這原住民"},{"start":2479.344,"end":2505.996,"text":"所制定的平埔原住民族群基本法就會直接盤點所有現在的法例跟原住民有關的法例是不是可以全部還是部分要納入在平埔原住民族群基本法那為什麼要這樣子寫呢是因為憲法的判決寫得很清楚"},{"start":2506.909,"end":2531.502,"text":"平普原住民族群潛意保障事項及範圍因充分考量各原住民族及其成員自歷史發展脈絡及現況並斟酌國家資源分配另於法律定制就因為憲法判決有這樣寫那"},{"start":2534.178,"end":2558.412,"text":"根據過去的經驗如果一個一個法律盤點會花很長的時間所以直接制定平埔原住民族群基本法是最快而且能夠很周延的一次盤點所以雖然我們今天我支持為了趕快通過"},{"start":2560.475,"end":2587.447,"text":"我支持先按照行政院的版本去通過但是我也要請林委員去跟這個我們西拉雅族或其他的平埔族人討論是不是就算我們行政院版我們按照行政院版去通過我們依然可以去制定"},{"start":2589.305,"end":2611.699,"text":"如果我說的話我的方法是適當的是更對平埔原住民會更有利的話是直接制定也歡迎提出草案提出草案這樣我們到時候也許我們在下個會期就是明年下個會期甚至今年年年底就可以討論"},{"start":2613.573,"end":2630.374,"text":"就可以讨论所以这个部分不影响今天我们造型这样版去通过不影响我们提出平普原住民族群基本法我认为这个是最快的以上 谢谢"},{"start":2631.803,"end":2660.381,"text":"好謝謝鄭天才委員剛剛我們高金委員有要求嘛這我們原委會主委針對剛剛兩位委員提出的意見先做簡單的回覆好嗎有請謝謝高金委員跟鄭委員非常謝謝就是這個有關這個將來這個業務必須要有更多的人來辦理我們現在已經跟人總都已經協調好我們明年的預算也編了就是說我們會有多成立一個科叫做平埔營住民事務科"},{"start":2661.582,"end":2684.728,"text":"包括科長 包括承辦人有8位 全部有8位的同仁他們就是專門來籌劃那重點的工作就是要跟相關部會來盤點 來修正各項的法令那這個部分我想我們會有8個人 這8個人的這個人事的預算 我們已經也變在明年度我們也跟人總都協調好了好 謝謝"},{"start":2687.315,"end":2712.556,"text":"好 各位經委員對不起 你跟人總協調好是什麼意思在你們園民會裡面會有增加什麼樣嗎說明一下一個科然後多少的人力然後多少的預算八個人 含一個就是含一個科長全部八個人一個科長 八個八個是臨時雇員還是什麼不是 不是正式人員八個全部都是正式人員因為我得到的是好像有三個不是正式人員是"},{"start":2713.464,"end":2734.962,"text":"八位都是正式人員沒有沒有沒有根本報告我們實際上明年我們現在的行政院也同意說要大概增加18個員我們有8個會放在這個平埔事務課你的意思是說行政院給你18個員18個然後8個是在平埔課會成立一個課"},{"start":2740.026,"end":2764.789,"text":"然後10個是在哪裡是另外在其他處事有一些人力短缺的部分會不足是在園民會裡面的這處事都是正式編制人員所以這個預算是呈現在明年的預算還是所以也就是說我們這個法今天召委的協調之下我們讓行政院的班門通過之後你們什麼時候開始成立一個評普科"},{"start":2766.039,"end":2784.737,"text":"原則上應該是說在今年底明年初大概就可以成立了明年初 預算到位就可以了ok 好對對對有來就可以了嗎 是不是對 ok謝謝委員好 請問各位協商代表我們條文的部分呢 因為"},{"start":2787.077,"end":2812.146,"text":"現在委員說行政院版 三年嘛你議金委員呢OK好那我們就達成共識了好不好我們就23條部分我們也照院版通過可以嗎謝謝主席不好意思我提醒一下因為剛剛你在說第二條的時候因為有那個附帶決議對大家認同附帶決議所以對要可能會會會好謝謝不好意思好那個附帶決議的部分簽名都簽好了嗎"},{"start":2813.837,"end":2837.844,"text":"那我們各黨還是簽一下啦因為今天因應這個大家達成共識嘛有一個附帶決議那我想我們各黨都簽名一下主席不好意思趁這個空檔我是不是跟主委提醒一些可以OK 不好意思因為我們現在這樣子這個法律我通過之後其實我們就要立即去盤點嘛可是我覺得有幾項的政策是應該是可以立即實施的"},{"start":2838.924,"end":2860.725,"text":"就是假設這個民族別核定跟身分登記後像說好這個身分證這個單名這個並列跟單列族名這個事情這個應該就可以馬上實行尤其是現在因為這個跟原住民的自我認同大大相關其實我們希拉雅很多的族親其實很多都習慣用傳統姓名了啦"},{"start":2864.557,"end":2881.095,"text":"對 我說適用在西拉雅適用在平埔族我說適用在平埔族另外就是原住民的這個碎石記憶架這個是不是也可以讓我們適用讓平埔族適用對"},{"start":2884.937,"end":2904.394,"text":"對 因為這也牽涉到我們可不可以回鄉參加祭典的問題喔好 那另外就是那個平埔原住民是不是來報名文化獎項的原住民組好像說 我們像我的選區希拉雅那個Onini族音樂團就非常的優秀 她得過傳譯金曲獎"},{"start":2906.355,"end":2919.106,"text":"但是我希望說他們用族語創作這些族人他們可以參加各式各樣的文化競賽像說金曲獎他們可以抬頭挺胸用自己的族語來參與像這個是不是可以來考慮"},{"start":2925.391,"end":2943.722,"text":"好 像這個那另外最後一個就是原住民原住民族語言能力認證這件事情是不是可以盡速納入那個平埔原住民族這個也有關這個語言文化這個存續好不好好 就這幾項謝謝 以上好 謝謝那我們就宣讀協商結論囉"},{"start":2949.212,"end":2972.635,"text":"有關本日協商會議本行理據結論如下第一第二條第23條照行政院提案通過第二我們甄列附帶決議一項附帶決議一項剛剛大家都已經簽名了我們就先這個待會再一併處理第三我們其他都照內政委員會的審查會的結果通過那請問大家有沒有異議好我們請議事前面宣讀一下協商結論"},{"start":2977.956,"end":2999.967,"text":"協商結論一第二條第23條照行政院提案通過二增列附帶決議一項如附件三其餘均照審查會審查結果通過宣讀完畢好都沒有問題的話那我們今天的會議來 請另一集委員因為我看到那個原民會23條也有也有附帶決議這個要不要就主席有沒有處理會不會都簽了嗎我們以剛剛下來有簽名來來來"},{"start":3008.84,"end":3010.987,"text":"喔 是建議而已喔那不是不帶決議"},{"start":3017.053,"end":3041.502,"text":"我們剛剛通過了附帶決議我補充一下行政院辦理平埔原住民族群之事務應尊重平埔原住民族群之主體性必要時應指派政務委員協助主管機關辦理跨部會協調事宜並得以平埔原住民族群人口之增長及其民族意願設置以平埔原住民族群為首長之專責機關辦理平埔原住民族群事務好 這是我們剛剛的附帶決議主席不好意思請"},{"start":3042.867,"end":3071.134,"text":"再一句話就好就是我想要跟主委提醒一下因為我跟那個宜蘭陳俊宇委員我們都有接到葛瑪藍組的陳情就是說他們懇求說他們的未來不要所謂的一族兩制或權力上有一些實質的區別我想這也是很重要的原住民的課題所以昨天這個重規處那個亞伯處長有來跟我辦公室溝通的時候我們辦公室有交給處長一份相關的法律修正案那是不是請原民會要回去研究"},{"start":3071.994,"end":3098.331,"text":"是不是我可以承諾一下我們同意來研議因為現在的原住民就有他也有平地原住民也有山地原住民台灣族也有平地原住民也有山地原住民主席這個研議一下好 沒關係我們法案的部分先處理啦但後續政策的部分請園民會抓好了好不好因為這個葛瑪蘭族本席這邊也有接到陳情那你們政策規劃上面要做詳細的配套可以嗎"},{"start":3099.452,"end":3105.074,"text":"最後問一次 協商結論有意義沒有謝謝各位協商黨團代表及行政機關代表現在上會"}]}},{"id":"163796","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163796","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890b6a388cc31e0a614704543300bdabf0212f99f5fe22a14833b1f0242bc217b355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:03:50 - 09:07:04","影片長度":"00:03:14","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T09:03:50+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T09:07:04+08:00","duration":194,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.95471875,"end":5.2115937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.34659375,"end":20.871593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.37784375,"end":26.879093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.21659375,"end":27.942218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.094093750000003,"end":49.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.77846875,"end":59.954093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.30846875,"end":97.29846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.70346875,"end":106.20846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.51221875,"end":111.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.82784375000001,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.80346875,"end":141.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.30409375000002,"end":155.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.55096875,"end":156.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.03596875000002,"end":186.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.39784375000002,"end":195.10596875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.96,"end":19.479,"text":"主席、各位政府官員以及各位立院同仁上禮拜本席有榮幸陪同韓國瑜院長以首次院長名義跨黨派的組成國會參訪團前往日本做進一步的國會交流以及參觀大阪萬國博覽會台灣館"},{"start":21.451,"end":48.652,"text":"其實我們看到在這一次台灣軟硬實力的展現在台灣館展露無遺看到許多的遊客願意排隊三個小時四個小時就是為了要一睹台灣館裡面的風采我們感到非常的驕傲尤其館內的設施不管是看到翩翩起舞的蝴蝶栩栩如生的在我們面前或者是神木高聳還是蘭花的噴印技術其實在在展現台灣的軟實力"},{"start":49.873,"end":67.757,"text":"看到城城坡的畫作可以有嘉義公園跟現代的101利用AI科技相互運用結合這更是讓人家驚豔台灣的半導體跟台灣的晶片都是我們的硬實力而透過統計每人每天"},{"start":68.417,"end":96.606,"text":"一天裡面會接觸到至少上百顆的晶片大多數都是Made in Taiwan所以我們要說這樣子的一個堅強的軟硬實力的展現絕對呼籲我們行政部門現在規劃完善的規劃要讓10月13號的世博結束之後台灣館的內容可以帶回給台灣國人都看見讓台灣國人也一起感受到我們共同過去現在以及未來我們一起打拚的驕傲"},{"start":97.902,"end":119.653,"text":"這段時間日本的政要以及華僑們也都表現對於花蓮風災台灣的關心但我們要說花蓮的風災其實都是大家不願意看到的一個狀況左院長您利用這次會期的施政報告也宣誓全力協助災區復原但展開必要的究責檢討"},{"start":120.794,"end":141.373,"text":"花蓮光復鄉搶救災害已經10天了現在眾話說要究責我們不希望看到的是大罷免的餘恨未消只想槍口對地方政府如果說只想要利用球員兼裁判來司法撩其他彎根本是沒有辦法對花蓮的災民公平交代"},{"start":142.369,"end":157.48,"text":"要釐清責任要記取教訓就是不要再讓這樣的悲劇再次發生跟重演這才是天災或者是相關的災害給予我們國人所留下的深刻的意義我們更要說"},{"start":158.32,"end":185.48,"text":"在這次情況裡面還看到有執政黨的黨團裡面在講說要透過第三方拒殺傷力的消息這樣子一個狀況難道一場災害在民進黨政府眼裡都變成了反攻以及吹起號角的機會嗎這絕對不是國人所願意看到的請執政黨好好的面對國人我們一起共同不分黨派全力救災天佑花蓮天佑台灣天佑中華民國謝謝"},{"start":190.498,"end":194.926,"text":"谢谢洪孟凯委员的发言,包园会我们登记国事论坛发言的委员。"}]}},{"id":"163795","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163795","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890a28e89aec2db819f704543300bdabf0212f99f5fe22a14831257d1c12132fb9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:00:32 - 09:03:30","影片長度":"00:02:58","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T09:00:32+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T09:03:30+08:00","duration":178,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.54096875,"end":5.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.56596875,"end":7.050968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.64159375,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.19784375,"end":14.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.695343750000003,"end":29.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.304718750000003,"end":31.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.92471875,"end":38.134718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.20221875,"end":54.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.532843750000005,"end":58.67159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.97534375,"end":62.063468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.35034375,"end":92.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.32034375,"end":120.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.24409375,"end":127.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.50471875000001,"end":144.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.12221875,"end":146.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.70846875,"end":157.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.68971875,"end":159.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.73596875,"end":168.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.10534375,"end":174.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.82221875000002,"end":178.97346875000002}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.564,"end":29.158,"text":"主席 府會同仁 媒體朋友 大家好近期花蓮馬太安溪因堰塞湖潰堤導致壩體崩塌大面積的泥流流入部落與市區災情嚴重其中原住民族受災比例非常高這次讓我們再次看到原鄉地區在面對災害時所承受的結構性困擾"},{"start":30.376,"end":54.631,"text":"本席強調原鄉居民面臨的環境風險與撤離的困難與一般市區有極大的不同山區地形險峻交通不便通訊經常不穩定許多長輩也不習慣攜帶手機這樣子的背景下如果中央僅靠簡訊通知撤離是沒有辦法真正保障居民的生命安全"},{"start":55.832,"end":75.103,"text":"這次事件當中原鄉部落受災本席請行政部門正視第一事前各級單位是否有針對原住民族群進行充分的溝通例如撤離計畫應該透過族語部落會議或社區管道協助預備跟傳達"},{"start":76.744,"end":91.72,"text":"第二 中央災防政策是否有針對長者弱勢族群研議更符合需求的撤離方式如果這些問題都沒有被回答災害的傷痛只會一次又一次的重演"},{"start":92.441,"end":120.497,"text":"本席認為政府必須檢視現有的預警與通報制度除了簡訊之外應該比照空襲海嘯警報設置具有聲響或廣播功能的警報設備讓居民在第一時間就能夠聽見警示對偏鄉長輩而言這樣子的設施比手機更直接更可靠能在關鍵的時刻挽救生命"},{"start":121.317,"end":143.753,"text":"各位同仁災害應變不該只是一套一體適用的制式流程而必須要因地制宜特別是對身處地質高風險地區的原住民族群更需要有符合在地文化與生活習慣的設計否則每一次的風災地震受害最深的往往是原鄉"},{"start":145.174,"end":167.743,"text":"偏鄉的居民本席在此呼籲中央應該從這次馬太安溪事件中汲取教訓徹底的檢討並改善原鄉災防與撤離設施與機制真正做到災害管理的在地化人性化唯有如此才能避免下一次悲劇的重演"},{"start":172.687,"end":178.544,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言包園會今天謝龍介委員進場今天是謝龍介委員過生日"}]}},{"id":"16919","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16919","video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60979c245159e3d3dfe3029e1f945e4c9522eb94a68550f7b5b71554ecae482775f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Full","date":"2025-10-03","委員名稱":"完整會議","start_time":"2025-10-03T08:31:13+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T17:42:00+08:00","duration":33047,"影片長度":"09:10:47","委員發言時間":"08:31:13 - 17:42:00","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1724.09909375,"end":1726.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1727.0353437500003,"end":1734.3422187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1749.4959687500002,"end":1751.0653437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1751.4872187500002,"end":1753.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1753.5965937500002,"end":1757.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1758.15284375,"end":1760.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1760.6503437500003,"end":1764.7340937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1764.9197187500001,"end":1775.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1776.2597187500003,"end":1777.3397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1777.8965937500002,"end":1784.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1784.2247187500002,"end":1800.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1801.4878437500001,"end":1804.6097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1804.9303437500002,"end":1808.0353437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1808.2884687500002,"end":1837.9547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1838.2753437500003,"end":1866.8109687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1867.1822187500002,"end":1873.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1873.4765937500001,"end":1890.3178437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1891.0940937500002,"end":1892.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1892.6803437500002,"end":1903.9359687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1904.6447187500003,"end":1905.4378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":1905.65721875,"end":1913.9428437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1918.0940937500002,"end":1920.3553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1920.7940937500002,"end":1925.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1925.7384687500003,"end":1926.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1926.76784375,"end":1927.5778437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1927.9322187500002,"end":1927.9490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1927.9490937500002,"end":1928.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":1928.01659375,"end":1928.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1928.03346875,"end":1928.2528437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1929.1978437500002,"end":1934.5640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1945.9040937500001,"end":1949.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1949.3634687500003,"end":1964.8378437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1965.3440937500002,"end":1970.8453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1971.19971875,"end":1971.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1972.0772187500002,"end":1980.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1980.32909375,"end":1993.5253437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":1993.7447187500002,"end":2004.0047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2004.2747187500001,"end":2041.2647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2041.6697187500001,"end":2050.1747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2050.4784687500005,"end":2055.5915937500004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2055.81096875,"end":2075.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2076.76971875,"end":2085.52784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2086.2703437500004,"end":2099.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2099.51721875,"end":2100.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2101.01909375,"end":2118.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":2118.65346875,"end":2130.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2134.3809687500006,"end":2141.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5354.198468750001,"end":5356.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5358.6365937499995,"end":5360.374718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5360.610968749999,"end":5362.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5364.67784375,"end":5376.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5376.49034375,"end":5379.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5380.067843750001,"end":5386.0584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5386.581593750001,"end":5392.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5395.00221875,"end":5399.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5399.288468750001,"end":5415.876593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5416.56846875,"end":5417.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5417.88471875,"end":5420.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5420.854718750001,"end":5424.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5425.22534375,"end":5431.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5432.83596875,"end":5452.3603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5453.74409375,"end":5460.983468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5461.169093750001,"end":5465.624093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5466.079718749999,"end":5485.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5486.97096875,"end":5494.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5494.682843750001,"end":5500.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5500.437218749999,"end":5515.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5516.9072187500005,"end":5522.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5522.22284375,"end":5529.833468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5530.120343750001,"end":5533.259093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5533.7147187499995,"end":5534.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5534.54159375,"end":5542.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5542.37159375,"end":5543.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5543.805968750001,"end":5544.734093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5544.919718749999,"end":5552.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5552.479718750001,"end":5553.374093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5553.407843749999,"end":5561.895968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5561.72721875,"end":5562.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5562.655343750001,"end":5571.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5571.37971875,"end":5579.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5579.59784375,"end":5583.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5584.390343749999,"end":5592.372218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5592.15284375,"end":5592.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5592.186593750001,"end":5600.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5600.55659375,"end":5606.108468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5606.327843749999,"end":5613.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5613.786593750001,"end":5621.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5621.987843750001,"end":5625.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5625.649718750001,"end":5637.124718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5636.9559687500005,"end":5637.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5637.9853437500005,"end":5645.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5645.27534375,"end":5646.169718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5646.2372187500005,"end":5659.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5658.825968749999,"end":5659.770968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5659.14659375,"end":5659.163468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5659.83846875,"end":5669.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5668.5965937500005,"end":5669.423468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5669.423468749999,"end":5679.464093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5678.856593750001,"end":5679.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5679.81846875,"end":5687.1590937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5686.55159375,"end":5687.479718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5687.479718750001,"end":5695.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5694.85409375,"end":5695.7822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5695.7822187500005,"end":5704.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5704.42221875,"end":5705.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5705.40096875,"end":5713.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5713.534718750001,"end":5714.3447187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5714.3447187500005,"end":5723.153468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5722.630343750001,"end":5723.5584687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5723.5584687499995,"end":5731.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5731.27034375,"end":5731.5740937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5731.675343750001,"end":5732.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5732.13096875,"end":5732.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5732.198468750001,"end":5749.579718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5748.9384687500005,"end":5749.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5749.83284375,"end":5757.966593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5749.84971875,"end":5749.917218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5757.173468749999,"end":5757.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5757.966593749999,"end":5758.169093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5758.18596875,"end":5770.403468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5769.99846875,"end":5770.825343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5771.55096875,"end":5782.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5782.13159375,"end":5783.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5783.12721875,"end":5792.475968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5791.88534375,"end":5792.712218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5792.712218750001,"end":5804.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5804.22096875,"end":5805.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5805.16596875,"end":5823.559718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5823.86346875,"end":5830.309718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5830.51221875,"end":5856.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5835.47346875,"end":5835.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5855.87534375,"end":5856.786593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5856.786593750001,"end":5864.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5864.02596875,"end":5869.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5870.050343750001,"end":5880.71534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5880.61409375,"end":5886.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5886.25034375,"end":5900.239718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5899.3622187500005,"end":5899.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5900.712218750001,"end":5908.778468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5908.204718750001,"end":5908.997843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5908.997843749999,"end":5918.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5917.857218749999,"end":5918.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5918.903468750001,"end":5928.032843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5927.425343750001,"end":5928.319718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5928.319718750001,"end":5935.019093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5934.411593750001,"end":5935.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5935.37346875,"end":5944.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5944.350968750001,"end":5945.3465937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5945.3465937500005,"end":5955.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5954.560343749999,"end":5955.2353437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5955.2353437500005,"end":5969.9334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5969.3934687500005,"end":5970.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5970.25409375,"end":5976.885968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5976.885968750001,"end":5977.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5977.51034375,"end":5977.544093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5978.59034375,"end":5988.647843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":5988.02346875,"end":5988.9178437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5988.9178437499995,"end":5996.1572187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":5996.1572187500005,"end":5997.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5997.11909375,"end":6007.024718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6006.53534375,"end":6007.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6007.27784375,"end":6007.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6007.42971875,"end":6016.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6016.3397187499995,"end":6017.30159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6017.30159375,"end":6024.405968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6023.899718750001,"end":6024.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6024.878468750001,"end":6032.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6032.472218750001,"end":6033.450968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6033.501593750001,"end":6036.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6036.8934687500005,"end":6040.589093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6040.200968749999,"end":6041.010968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6041.36534375,"end":6048.604718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6048.25034375,"end":6049.060343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6049.060343749999,"end":6057.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6056.78909375,"end":6057.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6057.61596875,"end":6064.484093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6063.96096875,"end":6064.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6064.8553437499995,"end":6074.1365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6073.495343750001,"end":6074.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6074.1365937499995,"end":6074.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6074.22096875,"end":6080.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6074.25471875,"end":6074.288468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6080.279093749999,"end":6081.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6082.00034375,"end":6088.7840937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6088.32846875,"end":6089.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6089.22284375,"end":6096.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6095.68596875,"end":6096.5634687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6096.512843750001,"end":6107.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6107.245343750001,"end":6107.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6107.78534375,"end":6108.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6108.038468750001,"end":6108.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6108.409718750001,"end":6116.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6115.9697187500005,"end":6116.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6116.93159375,"end":6125.6053437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6125.234093749999,"end":6130.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6131.055968750001,"end":6141.265343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6140.7928437499995,"end":6141.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6141.58596875,"end":6157.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6157.110968750001,"end":6158.055968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6158.055968750001,"end":6166.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6165.44721875,"end":6166.307843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6166.307843750001,"end":6173.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6173.192843750001,"end":6174.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6174.07034375,"end":6183.182843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6182.794718749999,"end":6182.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6183.182843750001,"end":6183.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6183.48659375,"end":6192.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6183.7059687500005,"end":6183.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6183.99284375,"end":6184.1278437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6192.042218750001,"end":6193.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6193.00409375,"end":6201.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6201.07034375,"end":6202.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6202.065968750001,"end":6208.073468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6208.073468750001,"end":6208.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6208.83284375,"end":6216.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6215.92034375,"end":6215.937218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6215.9540937500005,"end":6217.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6217.13534375,"end":6228.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6227.46284375,"end":6228.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6228.52596875,"end":6239.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6238.920968750001,"end":6240.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6240.0009687500005,"end":6250.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_09","start":6250.311593750001,"end":6251.3240937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6251.3240937499995,"end":6259.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6259.37346875,"end":6267.827843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6268.33409375,"end":6276.6365937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6277.51409375,"end":6279.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6280.80471875,"end":6287.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6287.63909375,"end":6288.3309687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6289.19159375,"end":6290.845343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6291.503468750001,"end":6319.499093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6320.950343750001,"end":6322.772843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6323.194718750001,"end":6330.602843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6331.61534375,"end":6333.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6334.399718750001,"end":6340.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6341.706593750001,"end":6344.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6344.8622187500005,"end":6347.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6364.403468750001,"end":6365.753468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6366.20909375,"end":6367.575968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6368.706593750001,"end":6369.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6369.786593750001,"end":6371.372843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6371.946593750001,"end":6373.870343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6374.292218750001,"end":6376.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6376.587218750001,"end":6377.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6377.81909375,"end":6378.561593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6378.71346875,"end":6380.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6380.856593750001,"end":6383.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6383.944718750001,"end":6385.682843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6385.9022187499995,"end":6391.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6391.97721875,"end":6393.4959687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6393.833468750001,"end":6394.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6395.6728437500005,"end":6398.524718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6399.182843750001,"end":6406.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6407.31659375,"end":6409.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6409.56096875,"end":6410.0165937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6410.185343749999,"end":6411.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6411.467843750001,"end":6411.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6412.4803437499995,"end":6412.952843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6413.96534375,"end":6419.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6419.804093750001,"end":6421.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6422.1834687499995,"end":6425.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6425.96346875,"end":6428.241593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6428.54534375,"end":6429.0009687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6429.28784375,"end":6438.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6438.77159375,"end":6440.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6441.134093750001,"end":6447.546593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6448.37346875,"end":6449.4872187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6449.97659375,"end":6451.444718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6451.83284375,"end":6452.710343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6452.92971875,"end":6453.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6454.80284375,"end":6455.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6456.405968749999,"end":6459.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6460.10159375,"end":6466.9022187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6467.8134687500005,"end":6468.977843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6469.38284375,"end":6473.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6474.040343750001,"end":6480.233468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6480.655343750001,"end":6484.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6485.245343750001,"end":6489.6834687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6490.155968749999,"end":6491.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6491.4384687500005,"end":6496.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6496.80471875,"end":6498.34034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6498.779093749999,"end":6502.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6503.655968749999,"end":6509.950343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6510.405968749999,"end":6513.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6514.32096875,"end":6515.9072187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6516.21096875,"end":6517.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6517.577843749999,"end":6518.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6519.265343749999,"end":6520.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6520.9697187500005,"end":6526.200968749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6527.044718749999,"end":6528.512843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6529.390343749999,"end":6531.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6531.80346875,"end":6532.630343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6533.54159375,"end":6534.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6534.317843750001,"end":6535.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6536.005343750001,"end":6536.562218749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6536.91659375,"end":6537.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6537.979718750001,"end":6538.9247187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6538.958468750001,"end":6540.882218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6541.05096875,"end":6541.624718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6541.911593750001,"end":6542.991593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6543.227843750001,"end":6545.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6546.231593750001,"end":6549.1678437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6549.505343750001,"end":6561.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6563.292218750001,"end":6568.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6569.198468750001,"end":6571.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6571.88159375,"end":6577.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6577.36596875,"end":6585.499718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6586.107218749999,"end":6599.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6600.501593750001,"end":6610.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6611.0653437500005,"end":6612.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6612.3309687500005,"end":6616.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6616.819718750001,"end":6619.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6619.78971875,"end":6625.780343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6626.2528437500005,"end":6634.3865937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6634.6903437500005,"end":6638.436593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6638.63909375,"end":6643.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6644.20784375,"end":6645.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6646.38471875,"end":6648.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6648.34221875,"end":6662.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6662.73659375,"end":6665.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6665.807843750001,"end":6667.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6667.69784375,"end":6671.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6671.612843750001,"end":6673.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6673.99221875,"end":6675.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6676.405343750001,"end":6676.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6677.0634687500005,"end":6679.9490937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6680.11784375,"end":6682.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6683.83034375,"end":6689.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6690.040343750001,"end":6693.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6693.702218750001,"end":6699.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6700.84034375,"end":6701.565968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6701.987843750001,"end":6709.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6709.109093749999,"end":6716.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6716.753468750001,"end":6718.913468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6719.419718749999,"end":6729.038468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6729.747218750001,"end":6732.835343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6733.42596875,"end":6736.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6737.86409375,"end":6738.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6739.0790937500005,"end":6740.91846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6741.25596875,"end":6743.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6743.804093750001,"end":6746.858468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6747.29721875,"end":6751.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6751.954718750001,"end":6756.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6757.911593750001,"end":6758.805968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6759.71721875,"end":6761.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6761.97846875,"end":6769.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6769.589093750001,"end":6770.095343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6770.39909375,"end":6774.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6774.82034375,"end":6776.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6776.524718750001,"end":6777.790343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6778.060343749999,"end":6780.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6781.249718749999,"end":6783.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6783.42659375,"end":6787.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6787.493468750001,"end":6788.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6788.97846875,"end":6789.839093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6789.90659375,"end":6791.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6791.239718750001,"end":6792.184718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6792.741593750001,"end":6793.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6794.327843749999,"end":6795.5428437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6795.66096875,"end":6800.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6801.179093750001,"end":6805.161593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6805.46534375,"end":6809.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6809.81909375,"end":6811.202843749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6811.69221875,"end":6813.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6813.48096875,"end":6820.669718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6820.872218750001,"end":6826.8290937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6827.1834687499995,"end":6832.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6833.22471875,"end":6838.92846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6839.620343750001,"end":6841.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6842.40471875,"end":6847.635968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6848.007218750001,"end":6868.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6868.544093750001,"end":6872.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":6872.948468750001,"end":6888.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6894.34596875,"end":6896.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6896.48909375,"end":6900.404093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6910.2928437499995,"end":6925.4803437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6925.80096875,"end":6957.795968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6946.10159375,"end":6946.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":6958.28534375,"end":7020.975968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6977.759093750001,"end":6978.2822187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7021.19534375,"end":7058.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7059.11346875,"end":7069.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7069.626593750001,"end":7079.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7079.937218750001,"end":7201.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7201.538468750001,"end":7212.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7213.14846875,"end":7235.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7236.132218750001,"end":7256.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":7256.888468749999,"end":7293.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7295.22846875,"end":7300.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7309.403468750001,"end":7312.7615937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7314.21284375,"end":7326.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7326.5653437500005,"end":7378.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7379.77221875,"end":7407.599093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7407.85221875,"end":7420.3397187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7420.727843750001,"end":7441.8553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7442.108468750001,"end":7455.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7446.47909375,"end":7446.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7455.8447187500005,"end":7481.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":7482.0009687500005,"end":7518.180968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7520.189093750001,"end":7525.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7543.628468750001,"end":7544.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7544.809718750001,"end":7546.733468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7547.40846875,"end":7549.4334687499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7549.78784375,"end":7552.015343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7552.065968750001,"end":7552.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7552.18409375,"end":7554.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7554.968468750001,"end":7557.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7557.95534375,"end":7559.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7559.372843749999,"end":7560.368468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7561.3134687500005,"end":7562.3934687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7562.78159375,"end":7565.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7565.97096875,"end":7566.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7566.747218750001,"end":7568.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7569.497843749999,"end":7571.657843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7571.708468750001,"end":7571.8603437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7572.5184687500005,"end":7573.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7574.07096875,"end":7575.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7575.52221875,"end":7576.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7576.80471875,"end":7579.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7579.6903437500005,"end":7582.6434687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7583.16659375,"end":7585.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7586.4403437500005,"end":7588.262843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7588.61721875,"end":7591.958468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7592.380343750001,"end":7597.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7597.37534375,"end":7599.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7600.260968750001,"end":7604.530343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7605.15471875,"end":7607.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7607.804093750001,"end":7612.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7612.073468750001,"end":7613.659718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7614.09846875,"end":7614.638468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7614.925343750001,"end":7616.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7616.41034375,"end":7617.3553437499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7617.57471875,"end":7618.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7619.21159375,"end":7622.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7622.36721875,"end":7624.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7625.050343750001,"end":7630.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7631.850968750001,"end":7632.458468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7632.795968750001,"end":7635.1415937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7635.25971875,"end":7637.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7637.706593750001,"end":7638.0947187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7638.465968750001,"end":7642.448468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7643.528468750001,"end":7647.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7647.39284375,"end":7650.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7650.37971875,"end":7654.294718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7654.61534375,"end":7655.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7656.269093750001,"end":7660.217843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7660.774718750001,"end":7662.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7662.411593750001,"end":7663.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7664.2509687500005,"end":7668.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7668.368468750001,"end":7670.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7671.20346875,"end":7673.616593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7673.63346875,"end":7677.784718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7678.79721875,"end":7681.311593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7681.497218750001,"end":7686.779093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7687.08284375,"end":7691.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7691.55471875,"end":7695.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7696.43159375,"end":7700.515343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7700.802218750001,"end":7705.1728437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7705.74659375,"end":7709.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7710.454718750001,"end":7715.7197187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7715.905343750001,"end":7718.385968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7718.92596875,"end":7722.452843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7722.840968750001,"end":7724.849093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7725.15284375,"end":7726.435343749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7726.722218750001,"end":7729.388468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7730.13096875,"end":7732.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7733.202218750001,"end":7740.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7742.39909375,"end":7746.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7746.651593750001,"end":7747.7147187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7748.052218750001,"end":7751.8153437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7752.608468750001,"end":7755.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7756.169093750001,"end":7760.6747187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7761.450968749999,"end":7773.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7774.630343750001,"end":7782.595343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7782.882218750001,"end":7785.649718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7787.48909375,"end":7796.888468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7798.542218750001,"end":7799.655968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7799.92596875,"end":7809.747218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7809.84846875,"end":7814.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7814.8603437500005,"end":7817.999093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7818.62346875,"end":7827.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7827.921593750001,"end":7843.260968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":7843.868468750001,"end":7844.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7846.905968750001,"end":7849.0322187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7852.45784375,"end":7855.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7855.309718750001,"end":7859.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7859.59596875,"end":7868.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7904.432843750001,"end":7906.2215937500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":7906.491593750001,"end":7908.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7917.6122187500005,"end":7918.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7918.9959687499995,"end":7920.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7921.206593750001,"end":7924.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7924.5478437500005,"end":7925.104718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7925.560343749999,"end":7928.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7928.88471875,"end":7929.745343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7930.673468750001,"end":7939.920968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7940.1572187500005,"end":7945.860968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7946.55284375,"end":7954.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7955.07471875,"end":7956.981593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7957.4540937500005,"end":7959.411593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7959.90096875,"end":7961.807843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7961.95971875,"end":7963.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7964.50784375,"end":7969.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7969.73909375,"end":7970.4647187499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7971.07221875,"end":7972.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7972.6415937500005,"end":7975.071593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7975.56096875,"end":7975.915343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7976.08409375,"end":7992.52034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":7993.296593750001,"end":7994.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7995.57471875,"end":7997.194718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":7998.02159375,"end":7999.253468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8000.2997187500005,"end":8001.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8002.071593750001,"end":8002.341593749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8002.66221875,"end":8004.417218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8004.85596875,"end":8005.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8006.12159375,"end":8010.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8010.23909375,"end":8011.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8012.44971875,"end":8022.89534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8023.09784375,"end":8024.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8024.92034375,"end":8038.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8031.029093750001,"end":8031.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8031.14721875,"end":8032.817843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8032.817843750001,"end":8032.9697187500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8032.9697187500005,"end":8033.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8039.17971875,"end":8047.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8048.44409375,"end":8049.186593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8050.165343750001,"end":8055.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8056.29096875,"end":8062.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8063.192843750001,"end":8066.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8067.124718750001,"end":8067.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8067.44534375,"end":8068.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8068.45784375,"end":8084.995343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8079.44346875,"end":8080.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8085.5184687500005,"end":8102.5115937499995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8096.45346875,"end":8097.229718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8097.4490937499995,"end":8098.022843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8098.022843750001,"end":8098.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8098.42784375,"end":8098.967843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8098.967843750001,"end":8100.19971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8102.055968750001,"end":8102.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8102.54534375,"end":8106.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8104.13159375,"end":8108.097218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8108.45159375,"end":8110.999718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8111.573468750001,"end":8112.450968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8112.53534375,"end":8112.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8112.80534375,"end":8113.919093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8112.82221875,"end":8112.872843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8114.08784375,"end":8114.8134687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8115.134093750001,"end":8118.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8119.2684687500005,"end":8129.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8126.45721875,"end":8126.474093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8126.474093750001,"end":8154.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8129.714093750001,"end":8130.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8133.62909375,"end":8133.696593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8133.696593750001,"end":8135.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8144.63159375,"end":8144.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8153.77784375,"end":8167.075343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8156.12346875,"end":8158.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8160.7978437500005,"end":8161.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8164.155968750001,"end":8164.864718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8165.72534375,"end":8169.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8167.716593750001,"end":8173.6903437500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8169.62346875,"end":8172.272843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8173.4540937500005,"end":8177.048468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8175.61409375,"end":8180.372843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8177.50409375,"end":8178.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8178.61784375,"end":8182.532843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8183.17409375,"end":8185.0809687500005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8185.0809687500005,"end":8185.165343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8185.165343750001,"end":8185.215968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8185.300343750001,"end":8191.965968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8188.33784375,"end":8188.810343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8191.965968750001,"end":8192.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8192.35409375,"end":8195.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8192.472218750001,"end":8198.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8195.56034375,"end":8196.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8196.184718750003,"end":8196.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8196.30284375,"end":8196.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8196.40409375,"end":8196.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8196.57284375,"end":8196.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8198.20971875,"end":8200.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8200.72409375,"end":8207.237843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8200.99409375,"end":8201.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8201.770343750002,"end":8201.820968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8202.023468750001,"end":8202.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8203.99784375,"end":8205.972218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8205.972218750001,"end":8215.945343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8207.54159375,"end":8208.300968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8213.211593750002,"end":8213.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8213.29596875,"end":8214.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8214.308468750001,"end":8214.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8216.940968750001,"end":8228.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8219.910968750002,"end":8219.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8219.92784375,"end":8220.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8220.164093750001,"end":8220.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8220.97409375,"end":8221.024718749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8221.024718749999,"end":8221.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8221.19346875,"end":8221.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8221.26096875,"end":8221.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8221.800968750002,"end":8221.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8221.83471875,"end":8222.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8222.03721875,"end":8223.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8228.93909375,"end":8229.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8229.36096875,"end":8229.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":8229.74909375,"end":8230.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8229.968468750001,"end":8233.259093749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8233.54596875,"end":8235.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8237.29221875,"end":8237.359718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8237.359718750002,"end":8238.034718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8238.034718750001,"end":8238.422843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8238.69284375,"end":8238.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8238.70971875,"end":8239.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8239.23284375,"end":8239.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8240.34659375,"end":8240.363468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8240.363468750002,"end":8243.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8245.274093750002,"end":8246.860343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8248.058468750001,"end":8248.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8249.99909375,"end":8250.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8251.484093750001,"end":8256.394718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8256.64784375,"end":8259.921593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8260.44471875,"end":8263.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8264.27534375,"end":8266.199093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8266.65471875,"end":8269.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8270.417843750001,"end":8271.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8272.83096875,"end":8277.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8278.028468750003,"end":8279.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8280.03659375,"end":8280.542843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8281.184093750002,"end":8282.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8283.546593750001,"end":8284.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8284.727843749999,"end":8287.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8287.90034375,"end":8289.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8290.70159375,"end":8292.743468749999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8292.844718750002,"end":8298.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8299.08846875,"end":8301.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8301.704093750002,"end":8302.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8303.77971875,"end":8308.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8309.09534375,"end":8309.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8310.192218750002,"end":8316.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8316.63846875,"end":8317.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8318.460968750001,"end":8319.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8321.211593750002,"end":8321.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8322.34221875,"end":8323.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8324.316593750002,"end":8329.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8324.384093750003,"end":8324.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8329.125968750002,"end":8334.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8332.922843750002,"end":8333.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8334.981593750003,"end":8339.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8339.250968750002,"end":8339.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8340.17909375,"end":8343.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8342.204093750002,"end":8342.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8343.80721875,"end":8343.824093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8343.824093750001,"end":8350.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8350.219718750002,"end":8351.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8352.649718750003,"end":8369.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8357.56034375,"end":8361.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8368.47846875,"end":8376.308468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8370.63846875,"end":8372.579093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8375.92034375,"end":8381.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8380.03784375,"end":8401.671593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8385.45471875,"end":8386.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8401.671593750001,"end":8402.785343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8401.70534375,"end":8403.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8403.797843750002,"end":8416.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8416.926593750002,"end":8418.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8418.394718750002,"end":8418.445343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8418.445343750001,"end":8418.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8418.58034375,"end":8420.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8420.11596875,"end":8422.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8420.183468750001,"end":8424.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8424.70596875,"end":8426.882843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8427.102218750002,"end":8438.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8427.13596875,"end":8427.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8428.38471875,"end":8429.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8438.813468750002,"end":8440.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8442.27284375,"end":8455.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8455.65471875,"end":8458.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8457.308468750001,"end":8457.679718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8458.202843750001,"end":8459.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8459.890343750001,"end":8461.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8460.227843750003,"end":8470.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8462.20221875,"end":8462.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8463.45096875,"end":8463.585968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8470.859093750001,"end":8474.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8475.11159375,"end":8477.625968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8476.512218750002,"end":8484.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8484.86534375,"end":8484.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8484.88221875,"end":8484.899093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8484.899093750002,"end":8486.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8484.91596875,"end":8486.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8486.72159375,"end":8486.738468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8486.738468750002,"end":8488.274093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8486.75534375,"end":8492.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8492.745968750001,"end":8502.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8502.972218750001,"end":8507.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8508.18659375,"end":8509.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8509.165343750003,"end":8511.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8511.797843750002,"end":8516.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8516.20221875,"end":8518.446593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8519.492843750002,"end":8523.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8523.89721875,"end":8524.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8524.977218750002,"end":8529.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8529.820343750001,"end":8532.790343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8533.16159375,"end":8535.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8535.59159375,"end":8535.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8535.69284375,"end":8538.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8539.81034375,"end":8540.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8542.39221875,"end":8543.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8543.99534375,"end":8546.914718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8547.066593750002,"end":8548.079093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8548.450343750003,"end":8553.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8553.563468750002,"end":8554.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8554.96409375,"end":8555.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8556.077843750001,"end":8557.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8557.613468750002,"end":8559.047843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8559.402218750001,"end":8560.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8560.58346875,"end":8562.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8562.96284375,"end":8565.426593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8565.747218750003,"end":8567.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8568.04221875,"end":8582.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8580.68159375,"end":8587.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8582.48721875,"end":8582.504093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8583.75284375,"end":8583.820343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8583.820343750001,"end":8584.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8587.684718750003,"end":8589.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8589.23721875,"end":8589.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8589.54096875,"end":8591.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8591.954093750002,"end":8595.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8596.274093750002,"end":8600.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8600.57721875,"end":8601.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8602.16346875,"end":8612.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8612.91284375,"end":8632.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8628.555968750003,"end":8630.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8631.171593750001,"end":8631.644093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8632.386593750001,"end":8633.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8632.454093750002,"end":8638.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8638.461593750002,"end":8641.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8641.39784375,"end":8642.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8643.152843750002,"end":8643.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8644.739093750002,"end":8646.409718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8646.46034375,"end":8656.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":8647.77659375,"end":8649.008468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8655.387218750002,"end":8656.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8656.804718750001,"end":8659.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8660.41596875,"end":8675.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8663.89221875,"end":8664.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8664.027218750001,"end":8667.149093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8667.149093750002,"end":8667.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8668.16159375,"end":8668.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8668.22909375,"end":8668.262843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8668.262843750003,"end":8669.680343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8669.680343750002,"end":8669.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8670.23721875,"end":8670.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":8670.304718750001,"end":8671.620968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":8671.620968750001,"end":8671.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8674.72596875,"end":8675.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8675.77221875,"end":8678.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8678.759093750003,"end":8681.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8679.51846875,"end":8682.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8682.707843750002,"end":8684.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8685.289718750002,"end":8691.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8692.090343750002,"end":8694.250343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8695.262843750003,"end":8695.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8695.735343750002,"end":8700.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8695.97159375,"end":8696.055968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8701.23659375,"end":8705.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8705.87721875,"end":8709.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8709.690968750001,"end":8713.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8712.35721875,"end":8716.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8717.01471875,"end":8722.144718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8718.449093750001,"end":8729.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8730.582218750002,"end":8732.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8733.434093750002,"end":8735.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8736.31971875,"end":8737.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8739.171593750001,"end":8742.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8743.15409375,"end":8744.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8745.06096875,"end":8746.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8747.406593750002,"end":8748.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8749.364093750002,"end":8750.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8753.042843750001,"end":8753.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8754.105968750002,"end":8755.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8756.45159375,"end":8757.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8757.49784375,"end":8758.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8759.92784375,"end":8761.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8762.273468750001,"end":8763.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8764.46721875,"end":8765.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8765.36159375,"end":8766.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8766.812843750002,"end":8767.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8768.129093750002,"end":8769.175343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8769.47909375,"end":8773.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8774.05221875,"end":8775.402218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8775.925343750001,"end":8784.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8785.29096875,"end":8786.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8787.02909375,"end":8793.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8794.454093750002,"end":8798.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8799.17909375,"end":8803.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8804.29221875,"end":8806.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8806.80659375,"end":8808.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8809.742843750002,"end":8812.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":8813.539718750002,"end":8814.265343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8813.894093750001,"end":8824.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8824.74471875,"end":8826.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8826.38159375,"end":8827.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8827.91721875,"end":8829.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8829.351593750001,"end":8829.891593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_27","start":8829.942218750002,"end":8831.258468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8837.012843750003,"end":8841.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8841.82221875,"end":8849.90534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":8850.85034375,"end":8851.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8854.27596875,"end":8859.000968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8864.367218750001,"end":8865.362843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8867.219093750002,"end":8872.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8874.812843750002,"end":8879.234093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8887.587218750003,"end":8889.696593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":8890.202843750001,"end":8891.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8901.37409375,"end":8902.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8902.69034375,"end":8902.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8903.399093750002,"end":8906.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8906.74034375,"end":8908.140968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8909.153468750003,"end":8917.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8918.485343750002,"end":8920.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8920.35846875,"end":8925.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8926.56846875,"end":8928.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8928.441593750002,"end":8930.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8931.175343750001,"end":8948.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8948.438468750002,"end":8957.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8958.023468750001,"end":8960.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8961.38159375,"end":8963.136593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8963.71034375,"end":8965.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8966.27534375,"end":8969.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8970.375968750002,"end":8971.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8972.75534375,"end":8981.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":8981.63159375,"end":8984.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8986.15409375,"end":8988.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8989.12409375,"end":8992.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8993.258468750002,"end":8999.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":8999.45159375,"end":9002.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9002.60721875,"end":9004.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9004.66596875,"end":9008.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9008.226593750001,"end":9011.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9010.386593750001,"end":9011.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9011.80409375,"end":9013.086593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9014.04846875,"end":9017.38971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9017.946593750003,"end":9023.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9023.70096875,"end":9026.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9027.71721875,"end":9028.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9028.746593750002,"end":9030.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9030.484718750002,"end":9035.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9036.137843750003,"end":9038.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9038.601593750001,"end":9041.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9041.85846875,"end":9042.550343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9042.85409375,"end":9047.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9047.59596875,"end":9049.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9050.27909375,"end":9051.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9051.426593750002,"end":9052.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9052.962218750003,"end":9053.940968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9054.41346875,"end":9062.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9062.715968750003,"end":9065.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9066.22596875,"end":9070.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9070.84971875,"end":9077.312843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9077.70096875,"end":9081.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9082.44284375,"end":9083.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9083.62409375,"end":9085.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9085.649093750002,"end":9087.066593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9088.19721875,"end":9088.821593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9089.41221875,"end":9092.399093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9092.871593750002,"end":9095.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9096.16221875,"end":9098.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9098.946593750003,"end":9107.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9107.789093750001,"end":9117.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9118.04909375,"end":9131.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9132.39284375,"end":9143.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9144.30659375,"end":9144.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9146.179718750001,"end":9146.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9148.62659375,"end":9149.875343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9150.870968750001,"end":9167.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9167.88096875,"end":9171.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9172.335968750001,"end":9175.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9176.149718750003,"end":9177.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9177.90471875,"end":9179.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9180.672218750002,"end":9180.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9180.90846875,"end":9180.925343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9182.02221875,"end":9184.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9184.789718750002,"end":9191.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9184.82346875,"end":9185.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9192.19784375,"end":9197.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9197.766593750002,"end":9199.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9200.31471875,"end":9200.618468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9200.88846875,"end":9202.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9203.33534375,"end":9206.187218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9206.558468750001,"end":9211.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":9215.519093750001,"end":9216.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_39","start":9216.700343750003,"end":9243.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":9239.81909375,"end":9239.835968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9239.835968750001,"end":9241.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9241.50659375,"end":9242.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9242.856593750003,"end":9244.898468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9245.10096875,"end":9273.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9273.87284375,"end":9280.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9280.62284375,"end":9285.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9286.27596875,"end":9286.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9287.879093750002,"end":9289.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9289.38096875,"end":9290.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9290.730968750002,"end":9294.831593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9295.28721875,"end":9298.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9299.590343750002,"end":9300.704093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9301.024718750003,"end":9304.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9305.19284375,"end":9306.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9307.065968750001,"end":9308.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9309.15846875,"end":9317.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9312.73596875,"end":9312.769718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":9312.769718750002,"end":9313.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9313.512218750002,"end":9313.562843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9317.882843750001,"end":9325.004093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9325.172843750002,"end":9328.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9328.41284375,"end":9345.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9345.405968750001,"end":9348.207218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9348.91596875,"end":9351.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9351.683468750001,"end":9356.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9357.42096875,"end":9360.441593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9360.72846875,"end":9369.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9370.07721875,"end":9374.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9374.70096875,"end":9375.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9375.66284375,"end":9376.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9377.384093750003,"end":9379.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9379.594718750002,"end":9381.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9382.581593750001,"end":9387.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9387.492218750001,"end":9389.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9390.32721875,"end":9393.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9394.05659375,"end":9406.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9406.645343750002,"end":9407.691593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9408.29909375,"end":9412.78784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9413.41221875,"end":9414.812843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9415.487843750001,"end":9419.031593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9420.128468750001,"end":9421.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9422.507843750001,"end":9435.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9436.480343750001,"end":9455.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9456.055343750002,"end":9476.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9476.81159375,"end":9482.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9483.51096875,"end":9484.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9484.87784375,"end":9486.61596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9486.953468750002,"end":9489.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9489.34971875,"end":9490.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9490.919093750003,"end":9493.062218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9493.26471875,"end":9494.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9494.024093750002,"end":9495.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9495.644093750001,"end":9496.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9497.48346875,"end":9501.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9501.73596875,"end":9502.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9503.28846875,"end":9507.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9506.49471875,"end":9509.009093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9508.38471875,"end":9512.265968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9509.80221875,"end":9509.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9513.39659375,"end":9516.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9516.434093750002,"end":9517.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9517.480343750001,"end":9518.003468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9518.05409375,"end":9522.171593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9522.441593750002,"end":9527.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9527.925968750002,"end":9536.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9537.359093750001,"end":9542.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9542.860343750002,"end":9544.328468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9546.539093750001,"end":9546.84284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9547.16346875,"end":9547.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9548.00721875,"end":9549.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9549.15471875,"end":9550.757843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9553.829093750002,"end":9555.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9555.63471875,"end":9557.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9557.33909375,"end":9566.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9567.312218750001,"end":9591.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9594.160343750002,"end":9597.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9598.277843750002,"end":9604.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9604.94346875,"end":9609.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9609.972218750001,"end":9625.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9626.391593750002,"end":9636.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9636.938468750002,"end":9659.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9660.175343750001,"end":9661.829093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9662.58846875,"end":9670.148468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9670.77284375,"end":9674.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9675.160343750002,"end":9678.737843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9678.92346875,"end":9696.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9696.60846875,"end":9700.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9702.531593750002,"end":9703.847843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9704.421593750001,"end":9705.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9706.68284375,"end":9707.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9708.859718750002,"end":9716.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9717.75284375,"end":9724.570343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9725.464718750001,"end":9727.050968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9728.13096875,"end":9732.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9732.855968750002,"end":9740.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9741.597218750001,"end":9747.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9747.992843750002,"end":9749.781593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9750.456593750001,"end":9752.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9753.02159375,"end":9758.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9759.40034375,"end":9769.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9770.52096875,"end":9772.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9772.96784375,"end":9774.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9774.55409375,"end":9775.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9775.97159375,"end":9776.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9777.11909375,"end":9779.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9779.987843750001,"end":9780.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9780.730343750001,"end":9782.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9782.67096875,"end":9784.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9785.15159375,"end":9786.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9786.61971875,"end":9789.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":9788.56034375,"end":9790.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9790.399718750003,"end":9792.087218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9792.492218750001,"end":9796.727843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9796.727843750003,"end":9797.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9798.28034375,"end":9800.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9801.030968750001,"end":9805.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9810.97034375,"end":9817.399718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9818.327843750001,"end":9818.344718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9818.85096875,"end":9818.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9819.964718750001,"end":9820.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9827.254718750002,"end":9827.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9830.24159375,"end":9833.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9833.17784375,"end":9833.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9833.34659375,"end":9833.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9833.49846875,"end":9834.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9834.64596875,"end":9836.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9836.50221875,"end":9836.519093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9836.519093750001,"end":9838.476593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":9838.476593750001,"end":9839.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9844.433468750001,"end":9847.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9857.460968750001,"end":9865.915343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9871.78784375,"end":9872.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9872.85096875,"end":9874.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9875.027843750002,"end":9883.836593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9884.089718750001,"end":9885.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":9894.50159375,"end":9895.125968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9895.21034375,"end":9895.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9896.35784375,"end":9898.230968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9898.93971875,"end":9899.547218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9900.00284375,"end":9902.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9903.242843750002,"end":9906.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9906.90471875,"end":9907.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9907.49534375,"end":9910.566593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9911.07284375,"end":9915.274718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9916.03409375,"end":9919.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9919.797218750002,"end":9927.222218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9928.52159375,"end":9929.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9930.69846875,"end":9934.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9934.59659375,"end":9936.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9937.54971875,"end":9940.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9941.02596875,"end":9941.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9942.325343750003,"end":9944.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9944.738468750002,"end":9945.734093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9946.03784375,"end":9961.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9961.69784375,"end":9965.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9965.86596875,"end":9970.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9970.371593750002,"end":9972.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9973.44284375,"end":9977.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9978.134093750003,"end":9980.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9981.32346875,"end":9986.605343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9986.85846875,"end":9993.895343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9994.08096875,"end":9995.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9996.51096875,"end":9998.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":9999.312218750001,"end":10000.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10001.72534375,"end":10002.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10002.754718750002,"end":10005.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10005.758468750002,"end":10006.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10007.226593750001,"end":10010.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10011.495968750001,"end":10013.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10013.52096875,"end":10014.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10015.360343750002,"end":10021.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10021.688468750002,"end":10025.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10025.97471875,"end":10027.105343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10027.493468750003,"end":10029.99096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10030.800968750002,"end":10034.800343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10031.003468750001,"end":10032.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10034.800343750001,"end":10035.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10035.171593750001,"end":10042.613468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10036.67346875,"end":10037.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10040.80784375,"end":10041.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10042.57971875,"end":10042.714718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10042.714718750001,"end":10042.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10042.74846875,"end":10042.765343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10042.765343750001,"end":10044.722843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10042.782218750002,"end":10042.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10045.12784375,"end":10045.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10045.49909375,"end":10046.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10046.71409375,"end":10053.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10053.649718750003,"end":10055.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10054.172843750002,"end":10066.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10056.04596875,"end":10057.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10058.712218750003,"end":10059.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10060.29846875,"end":10062.070343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10066.99784375,"end":10076.093468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10076.414093750001,"end":10078.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10076.54909375,"end":10077.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10078.692218750002,"end":10078.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10078.72596875,"end":10089.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10078.844093750002,"end":10079.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10086.72471875,"end":10097.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10092.495968750001,"end":10095.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10097.136593750001,"end":10100.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10099.90409375,"end":10102.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10102.688468750002,"end":10106.012843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10106.215343750002,"end":10106.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10106.586593750002,"end":10107.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10107.278468750003,"end":10116.019718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10116.25596875,"end":10117.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10116.82971875,"end":10118.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10117.437218750001,"end":10119.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10120.238468750002,"end":10121.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10120.67721875,"end":10120.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10120.879718750002,"end":10133.468468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10123.84971875,"end":10124.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10128.524093750002,"end":10128.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10129.92471875,"end":10131.780968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10131.96659375,"end":10133.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10133.468468750001,"end":10142.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10141.58534375,"end":10141.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10142.05784375,"end":10142.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10142.327843750001,"end":10146.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10146.293468750002,"end":10160.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10155.49034375,"end":10156.519718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10156.92471875,"end":10158.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10158.696593750003,"end":10159.202843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10160.65409375,"end":10161.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10161.278468750003,"end":10165.058468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10165.93596875,"end":10165.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10165.952843750001,"end":10169.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10168.534718750001,"end":10169.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10170.45846875,"end":10174.289093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10174.79534375,"end":10176.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10176.550343750001,"end":10203.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10190.50596875,"end":10190.843468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10190.843468750001,"end":10192.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10192.24409375,"end":10192.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":10193.374718750001,"end":10193.391593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10193.391593750002,"end":10196.024093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10196.024093750002,"end":10201.761593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10203.347843750002,"end":10235.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10218.383468750002,"end":10218.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10235.629718750002,"end":10241.839718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10242.531593750002,"end":10247.796593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10247.89784375,"end":10252.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10252.757843750001,"end":10258.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10258.64721875,"end":10281.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10259.05221875,"end":10260.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10265.12721875,"end":10266.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10282.06971875,"end":10297.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10294.82721875,"end":10296.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10297.02096875,"end":10299.164093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10297.071593750003,"end":10297.172843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10298.03346875,"end":10308.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10301.18909375,"end":10303.180343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10303.180343750002,"end":10303.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10307.11221875,"end":10308.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10308.83346875,"end":10311.870968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10310.082218750002,"end":10311.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10311.80346875,"end":10315.634093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10316.24159375,"end":10318.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10316.27534375,"end":10348.624718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10323.160343750002,"end":10323.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10332.99846875,"end":10333.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10349.23221875,"end":10376.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10376.535968750002,"end":10380.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10380.97409375,"end":10381.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10382.08784375,"end":10384.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10384.703468750002,"end":10387.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10387.555343750002,"end":10396.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10397.96721875,"end":10408.581593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10402.81034375,"end":10402.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10402.86096875,"end":10403.063468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":10403.063468750002,"end":10403.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10403.14784375,"end":10403.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10408.31159375,"end":10410.910343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10410.84284375,"end":10412.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10412.15909375,"end":10412.277218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10412.277218750001,"end":10412.327843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10412.327843750001,"end":10413.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10413.99846875,"end":10414.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10414.26846875,"end":10456.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10414.47096875,"end":10414.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":10425.524093750002,"end":10426.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10438.93971875,"end":10439.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10451.39346875,"end":10453.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10453.97534375,"end":10454.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10456.03409375,"end":10457.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10457.13096875,"end":10457.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10457.907218750002,"end":10457.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10457.92409375,"end":10458.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10458.71721875,"end":10465.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10465.73721875,"end":10466.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10466.496593750002,"end":10469.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10469.36534375,"end":10470.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10469.90534375,"end":10470.495968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10471.019093750001,"end":10498.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10499.36909375,"end":10505.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10505.86596875,"end":10651.429718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10555.32659375,"end":10555.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10617.105968750002,"end":10617.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10617.61221875,"end":10622.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10631.48346875,"end":10633.339718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10645.472843750002,"end":10646.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10651.66596875,"end":10668.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10659.445343750001,"end":10660.609718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10668.203468750002,"end":10673.164718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10673.333468750003,"end":10684.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10685.669093750003,"end":10687.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10688.01471875,"end":10689.415343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10690.039718750002,"end":10692.030968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10692.402218750001,"end":10694.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10695.304718750001,"end":10697.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10698.96659375,"end":10699.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10699.97909375,"end":10704.113468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10702.172843750002,"end":10702.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10704.704093750002,"end":10706.712218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10705.227218750002,"end":10711.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10710.019718750002,"end":10713.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10711.69034375,"end":10712.500343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10712.80409375,"end":10714.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10714.57596875,"end":10716.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10715.95971875,"end":10722.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10719.55409375,"end":10722.304718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10723.097843750002,"end":10723.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10723.266593750002,"end":10742.554718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10723.90784375,"end":10724.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10725.477218750002,"end":10725.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10736.766593750002,"end":10740.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10741.812218750001,"end":10742.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10742.993468750003,"end":10744.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10744.52909375,"end":10748.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10746.18284375,"end":10746.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10746.90846875,"end":10746.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10749.55784375,"end":10759.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10754.333468750003,"end":10756.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10757.67471875,"end":10761.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10759.88534375,"end":10761.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10761.94409375,"end":10765.774718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10762.112843750001,"end":10763.969093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":10764.37409375,"end":10765.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10765.335968750001,"end":10766.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10766.11221875,"end":10779.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10766.500343750002,"end":10767.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10769.06534375,"end":10770.837218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":10772.71034375,"end":10773.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10776.692843750003,"end":10777.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10778.987843750001,"end":10783.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10781.485343750002,"end":10783.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":10784.55659375,"end":10788.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":10785.231593750003,"end":10798.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10798.208468750003,"end":10798.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10799.44034375,"end":10804.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10806.797843750002,"end":10816.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10819.386593750001,"end":10824.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11480.734718750002,"end":11484.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11486.72534375,"end":11488.547843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":11518.72034375,"end":11519.597843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":11520.30659375,"end":11521.386593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11521.707218750002,"end":11522.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11523.05721875,"end":11524.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11533.536593750003,"end":11534.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11534.937218750001,"end":11535.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11535.91596875,"end":11542.007843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11542.29471875,"end":11599.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11571.657218750002,"end":11571.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":11571.77534375,"end":11571.977843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11571.977843750003,"end":11572.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11599.93971875,"end":11604.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11605.356593750003,"end":11605.390343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11605.390343750001,"end":11605.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11605.42409375,"end":11605.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11605.74471875,"end":11609.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11610.300968750002,"end":11615.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11616.359093750001,"end":11619.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11620.544093750003,"end":11622.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11622.957218750002,"end":11623.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11623.83471875,"end":11624.172218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11624.57721875,"end":11625.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11626.51784375,"end":11633.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11633.942843750003,"end":11636.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11637.317843750003,"end":11646.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11646.329093750002,"end":11648.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11649.214718750001,"end":11654.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11655.00284375,"end":11656.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11657.719718750002,"end":11659.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11659.94721875,"end":11662.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11663.187218750001,"end":11664.469718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11665.465343750002,"end":11668.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11668.82346875,"end":11670.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11670.359093750001,"end":11675.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11675.759093750003,"end":11677.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11677.868468750003,"end":11679.42096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11679.72471875,"end":11682.509093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11683.437218750001,"end":11691.63846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11691.58784375,"end":11697.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11698.23659375,"end":11700.261593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11700.61596875,"end":11703.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11704.176593750002,"end":11704.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11705.18909375,"end":11723.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11724.29159375,"end":11724.359093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11724.81471875,"end":11725.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11725.82721875,"end":11730.062843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11730.51846875,"end":11734.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11734.63596875,"end":11736.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11736.25596875,"end":11738.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11739.15846875,"end":11741.774093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11741.89221875,"end":11743.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11744.187218750001,"end":11744.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11744.625968750002,"end":11744.929718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11745.402218750001,"end":11746.937843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11747.32596875,"end":11749.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11749.48596875,"end":11750.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11750.29596875,"end":11752.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11752.55721875,"end":11754.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11754.750968750002,"end":11755.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11755.999718750001,"end":11758.851593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11759.273468750001,"end":11760.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11760.539093750001,"end":11762.665343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11762.95221875,"end":11763.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11764.234718750002,"end":11765.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11766.090968750003,"end":11770.039718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11770.37721875,"end":11771.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11771.828468750002,"end":11773.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11773.617218750001,"end":11777.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11778.17346875,"end":11779.675343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11780.02971875,"end":11781.852218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11782.155968750001,"end":11784.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11784.602843750003,"end":11786.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11786.965343750002,"end":11787.859718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11788.062218750001,"end":11790.47534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11790.99846875,"end":11793.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11794.289093750001,"end":11797.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11797.42784375,"end":11798.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11799.38534375,"end":11804.430968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11804.66721875,"end":11808.582218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11810.067218750002,"end":11854.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11822.53784375,"end":11822.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11855.29221875,"end":11887.422218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11887.590968750003,"end":11899.335968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":11899.403468750003,"end":11924.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11924.58096875,"end":11929.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11929.20471875,"end":11931.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11931.58409375,"end":11932.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11932.360343750002,"end":11934.081593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11934.300968750002,"end":11935.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11935.33034375,"end":11939.886593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11940.13971875,"end":11941.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11941.962218750003,"end":11942.485343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11942.72159375,"end":11945.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":11945.45534375,"end":11949.539093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11949.960968750001,"end":11950.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11950.349093750003,"end":11955.884093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11956.356593750003,"end":11965.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11965.82346875,"end":11990.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":11990.562218750001,"end":12001.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12002.18909375,"end":12004.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12005.969093750002,"end":12015.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12015.368468750003,"end":12023.687843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12023.890343750001,"end":12029.813468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12030.387218750002,"end":12049.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12048.86534375,"end":12053.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12054.07971875,"end":12054.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12054.14721875,"end":12056.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12054.92346875,"end":12073.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12074.02596875,"end":12075.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12075.409718750001,"end":12078.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12079.206593750001,"end":12083.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12083.712218750003,"end":12090.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12091.20471875,"end":12091.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12092.554718750001,"end":12093.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12093.63471875,"end":12098.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12098.17409375,"end":12102.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12103.270343750002,"end":12107.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12107.40471875,"end":12111.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12111.589718750001,"end":12112.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12112.281593750002,"end":12114.930968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12115.335968750001,"end":12122.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12120.567218750002,"end":12121.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12122.575343750003,"end":12146.149718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":12131.19846875,"end":12131.333468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12146.234093750001,"end":12149.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12149.980343750001,"end":12171.124718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12171.73221875,"end":12260.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12260.359718750002,"end":12271.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12271.56471875,"end":12292.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12292.40534375,"end":12304.977218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12305.26409375,"end":12348.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12348.362843750001,"end":12349.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12350.067218750002,"end":12403.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12403.375343750002,"end":12408.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12408.117218750001,"end":12409.534718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_21","start":12409.754093750002,"end":12423.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":12424.587218750003,"end":12437.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12463.973468750002,"end":12464.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":12464.68221875,"end":12471.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12494.63534375,"end":12495.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12495.79971875,"end":12500.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12502.769093750001,"end":12503.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12509.265968750002,"end":12514.109093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12518.749718750001,"end":12522.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12522.52971875,"end":12524.183468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12525.63471875,"end":12526.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12526.79909375,"end":12528.570968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12528.18284375,"end":12529.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12530.005343750003,"end":12531.270968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12530.96721875,"end":12532.469093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12533.70096875,"end":12534.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12534.797843750002,"end":12536.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12536.367218750001,"end":12536.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12536.70471875,"end":12554.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12555.48659375,"end":12573.120968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12573.222218750001,"end":12580.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12581.085968750001,"end":12582.368468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12582.773468750001,"end":12583.85346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12584.29221875,"end":12594.484718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12594.737843750001,"end":12601.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12602.179718750001,"end":12611.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12612.33846875,"end":12616.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12616.101593750001,"end":12618.109718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12618.160343750002,"end":12619.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12620.35409375,"end":12621.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12622.46346875,"end":12622.800968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12623.40846875,"end":12629.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12630.985343750002,"end":12632.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12634.37721875,"end":12637.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12638.79846875,"end":12639.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12640.38471875,"end":12640.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12641.363468750002,"end":12643.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12643.86096875,"end":12648.805343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12649.547843750002,"end":12663.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12663.33471875,"end":12667.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12667.620968750001,"end":12682.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12683.21346875,"end":12686.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12686.672843750002,"end":12688.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12690.047843750002,"end":12697.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12697.87784375,"end":12700.78034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12701.10096875,"end":12710.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12711.79971875,"end":12721.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12721.85721875,"end":12728.894093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12729.36659375,"end":12732.454718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12732.77534375,"end":12735.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12736.20096875,"end":12737.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12738.445343750001,"end":12741.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12741.567218750002,"end":12752.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12752.839718750001,"end":12753.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12754.223468750002,"end":12754.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12755.387843750003,"end":12755.759093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12756.315968750001,"end":12756.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12757.125968750002,"end":12760.484093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12760.602218750002,"end":12764.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12762.52596875,"end":12763.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12764.179718750001,"end":12764.196593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12764.196593750003,"end":12765.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12768.094718750002,"end":12768.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12770.102843750003,"end":12770.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12770.676593750002,"end":12771.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12773.376593750003,"end":12773.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12774.321593750003,"end":12775.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12775.65471875,"end":12776.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12777.359093750001,"end":12777.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12778.017218750003,"end":12778.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12779.23221875,"end":12787.433468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12788.51346875,"end":12795.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12796.12409375,"end":12797.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12797.406593750002,"end":12798.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12799.313468750002,"end":12800.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12800.984093750001,"end":12801.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12802.13159375,"end":12803.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12804.156593750002,"end":12805.320968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12805.624718750001,"end":12806.67096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12807.312218750001,"end":12808.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12809.18534375,"end":12812.644718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12812.88096875,"end":12816.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12816.509093750003,"end":12821.352218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12821.655968750001,"end":12828.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12828.743468750003,"end":12835.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12836.99534375,"end":12851.946593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12852.58784375,"end":12854.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12855.152843750002,"end":12862.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12863.691593750002,"end":12867.555968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12867.117218750001,"end":12894.167843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":12894.40409375,"end":12905.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12906.570968750002,"end":12909.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12910.064093750003,"end":12911.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12910.958468750003,"end":12911.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12911.903468750003,"end":12913.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12913.30409375,"end":12917.016593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12917.489093750002,"end":12922.281593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12922.484093750001,"end":12925.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12925.234718750002,"end":12930.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":12930.415343750003,"end":12934.515968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12934.836593750002,"end":12937.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12938.110343750002,"end":12940.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12940.75971875,"end":12940.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12941.046593750001,"end":12942.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12942.02534375,"end":12944.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12944.792843750001,"end":12945.46784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12945.94034375,"end":12948.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12948.82596875,"end":12948.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12948.910343750002,"end":12949.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12950.41221875,"end":12951.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12951.79596875,"end":12954.242843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12954.445343750001,"end":12956.082218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12956.33534375,"end":12957.027218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12957.145343750002,"end":12958.208468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12958.883468750002,"end":12959.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12959.69346875,"end":12961.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12961.735343750002,"end":12966.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12966.578468750002,"end":12967.101593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12967.40534375,"end":12972.535343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12972.77159375,"end":12974.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12974.661593750003,"end":12979.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12979.58909375,"end":12984.617843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12984.786593750003,"end":12990.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":12990.97971875,"end":12992.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12993.03846875,"end":12995.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":12995.535968750002,"end":13001.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13001.914718750002,"end":13004.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13005.20534375,"end":13007.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13007.80409375,"end":13008.664718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13009.06971875,"end":13009.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13010.80784375,"end":13014.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13014.38534375,"end":13015.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13016.29221875,"end":13017.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13017.996593750002,"end":13019.532218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13019.751593750003,"end":13020.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13020.46034375,"end":13022.384093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13022.417843750001,"end":13023.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13026.653468750003,"end":13029.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13029.977843750003,"end":13030.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13031.47971875,"end":13034.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13034.770343750002,"end":13036.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13037.06534375,"end":13040.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13040.54159375,"end":13044.675968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13045.266593750002,"end":13049.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13049.586593750002,"end":13050.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13051.814093750003,"end":13053.079718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13053.383468750002,"end":13058.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13059.47534375,"end":13061.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13061.871593750002,"end":13064.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13064.53784375,"end":13065.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13066.22534375,"end":13067.609093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13067.71034375,"end":13069.414718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13069.617218750001,"end":13070.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13072.097843750002,"end":13073.042843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13073.565968750001,"end":13074.730343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13075.067843750003,"end":13084.703468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13085.09159375,"end":13086.390968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13086.812843750002,"end":13090.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13090.84596875,"end":13091.892218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13092.53346875,"end":13095.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13096.27971875,"end":13100.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13100.464718750001,"end":13101.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13102.169093750003,"end":13102.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13103.23221875,"end":13106.050343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13107.130343750003,"end":13111.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13112.20971875,"end":13115.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13115.83784375,"end":13116.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13117.238468750002,"end":13117.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13118.79096875,"end":13123.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13124.359718750002,"end":13125.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13126.01346875,"end":13138.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13140.57659375,"end":13142.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13144.94721875,"end":13145.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13146.297218750002,"end":13148.001593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13148.575343750003,"end":13152.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13153.92471875,"end":13154.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13155.645968750003,"end":13158.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13159.105343750001,"end":13160.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13160.82659375,"end":13163.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13163.83034375,"end":13169.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13170.27659375,"end":13171.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13171.94721875,"end":13174.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13176.01409375,"end":13184.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13184.789093750001,"end":13188.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13188.737843750001,"end":13193.699093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13194.47534375,"end":13197.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13198.49159375,"end":13198.862843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13199.31846875,"end":13200.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13200.53346875,"end":13202.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13203.65534375,"end":13205.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13205.730968750002,"end":13207.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13207.688468750002,"end":13208.211593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13208.71784375,"end":13209.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13209.645968750003,"end":13212.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13214.320343750001,"end":13214.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13215.14721875,"end":13215.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13217.35784375,"end":13218.184718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13218.82596875,"end":13223.129093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13223.770343750002,"end":13224.816593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13225.15409375,"end":13228.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13229.474093750003,"end":13229.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13230.419093750003,"end":13231.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13231.70159375,"end":13241.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13242.062843750002,"end":13249.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13250.11221875,"end":13250.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13250.80409375,"end":13255.242218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13255.579718750003,"end":13256.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13257.891593750002,"end":13259.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13260.203468750002,"end":13269.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13270.007843750001,"end":13274.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13275.10409375,"end":13277.280968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13277.68596875,"end":13280.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13280.68971875,"end":13281.128468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13281.887843750003,"end":13290.595343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13290.949718750002,"end":13292.890343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13293.34596875,"end":13293.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13294.965968750003,"end":13295.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13296.14721875,"end":13297.379093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13297.73346875,"end":13300.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13300.56846875,"end":13301.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13300.83846875,"end":13314.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13314.726593750001,"end":13320.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13320.02534375,"end":13323.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13324.395968750003,"end":13332.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13333.305968750003,"end":13334.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13335.33096875,"end":13336.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13336.69784375,"end":13338.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13338.97596875,"end":13340.140343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13340.34284375,"end":13342.587218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13343.009093750003,"end":13344.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13345.253468750001,"end":13346.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13346.805968750003,"end":13348.628468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13349.691593750002,"end":13357.808468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13358.230343750001,"end":13358.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13359.546593750001,"end":13361.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13361.80784375,"end":13363.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13363.309718750003,"end":13365.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13365.790343750003,"end":13367.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13367.511593750001,"end":13370.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13370.852843750003,"end":13379.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13380.235343750002,"end":13381.298468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13381.484093750001,"end":13382.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13383.35721875,"end":13384.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13385.38221875,"end":13388.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13388.706593750001,"end":13390.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13390.69784375,"end":13396.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13396.097843750002,"end":13399.472843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13399.675343750001,"end":13400.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13400.97471875,"end":13401.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13401.04221875,"end":13403.421593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13403.60721875,"end":13407.387218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13407.707843750002,"end":13417.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13418.27159375,"end":13420.296593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13421.899718750003,"end":13430.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":13431.855968750002,"end":13439.179718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13450.77284375,"end":13456.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13460.222843750002,"end":13466.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13466.601593750001,"end":13470.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13470.90471875,"end":13471.96784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13472.625968750002,"end":13475.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13478.12721875,"end":13483.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13493.129093750002,"end":13495.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13494.73221875,"end":13496.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":13506.02159375,"end":13506.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13506.19034375,"end":13507.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13507.894718750002,"end":13518.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13518.94784375,"end":13520.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13520.78721875,"end":13522.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13522.47471875,"end":13524.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13524.48284375,"end":13531.300343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13531.418468750002,"end":13534.995968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13535.13096875,"end":13542.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13535.265968750002,"end":13536.227843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13542.57284375,"end":13570.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13542.690968750001,"end":13544.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13556.612843750001,"end":13558.739093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13570.652843750002,"end":13574.972843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13571.614718750003,"end":13575.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13575.934718750003,"end":13584.945968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13583.49471875,"end":13588.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13585.92471875,"end":13589.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13589.97471875,"end":13601.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13594.699718750002,"end":13595.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13595.610968750003,"end":13596.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13600.69034375,"end":13604.976593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13604.976593750001,"end":13619.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13606.02284375,"end":13606.292843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13606.32659375,"end":13606.360343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":13608.63846875,"end":13610.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13613.009093750003,"end":13614.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13617.227843750003,"end":13621.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13621.78409375,"end":13621.902218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13621.902218750001,"end":13621.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13621.969718750002,"end":13622.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13622.03721875,"end":13622.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13622.56034375,"end":13637.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13622.57721875,"end":13623.134093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13627.285343750002,"end":13627.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13628.95596875,"end":13631.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13638.49034375,"end":13640.987843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13641.105968750002,"end":13643.805968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13644.109718750002,"end":13651.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13651.61909375,"end":13654.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13654.53846875,"end":13656.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13656.934718750003,"end":13660.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13660.680968750003,"end":13664.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13665.051593750002,"end":13666.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13665.743468750003,"end":13667.751593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13667.852843750003,"end":13668.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13668.03846875,"end":13669.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13669.590968750003,"end":13669.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13669.60784375,"end":13669.742843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13669.77659375,"end":13669.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13669.962218750003,"end":13670.755343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13670.08034375,"end":13670.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13670.755343750003,"end":13670.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13670.77221875,"end":13670.789093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13670.789093750001,"end":13670.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13671.683468750001,"end":13679.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13671.750968750002,"end":13673.472218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13679.46284375,"end":13679.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13679.73284375,"end":13680.593468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13679.749718750001,"end":13680.610343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13680.610343750002,"end":13680.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13680.89721875,"end":13687.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13680.914093750001,"end":13681.909718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13685.082218750002,"end":13695.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13690.27971875,"end":13691.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13695.61221875,"end":13697.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13696.439093750003,"end":13702.159718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13701.164093750001,"end":13702.969718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13702.969718750002,"end":13712.250968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13712.504093750002,"end":13723.152218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13722.207218750002,"end":13723.219718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13723.219718750002,"end":13723.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13723.23659375,"end":13735.555343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13727.050343750001,"end":13727.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13727.08409375,"end":13727.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13727.97846875,"end":13728.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13730.45909375,"end":13731.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13732.534718750001,"end":13733.378468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13735.15034375,"end":13742.558468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13743.419093750003,"end":13748.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13745.511593750001,"end":13748.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13748.07659375,"end":13748.110343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13748.110343750002,"end":13748.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13748.29596875,"end":13750.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13750.03409375,"end":13752.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13750.45596875,"end":13750.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13752.750968750002,"end":13753.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13753.61159375,"end":13757.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13755.906593750002,"end":13756.530968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13757.13846875,"end":13761.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13761.52596875,"end":13762.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13761.67784375,"end":13788.914093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13776.780968750001,"end":13777.641593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13789.69034375,"end":13800.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13790.41596875,"end":13791.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13792.559093750002,"end":13795.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13801.300343750001,"end":13805.907218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13803.66284375,"end":13804.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13806.649718750003,"end":13806.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13807.29096875,"end":13814.226593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":13809.94034375,"end":13810.227218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13814.547218750002,"end":13815.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13815.711593750002,"end":13822.259093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13822.832843750002,"end":13826.477843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13826.950343750003,"end":13831.067843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13831.87784375,"end":13860.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13859.417843750001,"end":13860.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13860.430343750002,"end":13865.374718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13865.08784375,"end":13877.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13870.015343750001,"end":13870.032218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13870.032218750002,"end":13870.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":13870.04909375,"end":13870.656593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13872.31034375,"end":13872.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13872.85034375,"end":13872.968468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13875.85409375,"end":13876.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13876.22534375,"end":13876.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13876.37721875,"end":13876.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13877.01846875,"end":13881.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13877.06909375,"end":13877.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13882.199093750001,"end":13888.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13887.480968750002,"end":13887.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13888.172843750002,"end":13897.065968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13897.09971875,"end":13901.048468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13902.550343750001,"end":13903.664093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13903.96784375,"end":13917.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13911.13971875,"end":13911.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13911.831593750001,"end":13912.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13913.87346875,"end":13914.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13915.35846875,"end":13924.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13924.707218750002,"end":13924.74096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13924.74096875,"end":13928.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":13924.774718750003,"end":13925.922218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13928.53784375,"end":13931.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13930.984718750002,"end":13934.562218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13932.80721875,"end":13937.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13937.565968750001,"end":13942.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13942.03784375,"end":13942.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13942.544093750003,"end":13950.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":13942.965968750003,"end":13943.370968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13943.370968750001,"end":13943.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13950.441593750002,"end":13956.347843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13952.027843750002,"end":13952.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13955.453468750002,"end":13964.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13964.464718750001,"end":13965.629093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13965.03846875,"end":13967.316593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13966.624718750001,"end":13968.700343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":13969.004093750002,"end":13975.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13969.18971875,"end":13969.206593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13969.206593750001,"end":13969.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13969.324718750002,"end":13969.594718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13971.315968750001,"end":13972.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13974.657218750002,"end":13984.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13984.74846875,"end":13989.878468750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13990.18221875,"end":13990.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13991.751593750003,"end":13996.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":13996.999718750001,"end":14008.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14009.031593750002,"end":14011.309718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14012.558468750001,"end":14020.540343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14020.624718750001,"end":14024.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14020.82721875,"end":14023.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14024.168468750002,"end":14026.750343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14027.340968750003,"end":14032.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14032.74096875,"end":14033.939093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14033.500343750002,"end":14036.453468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14035.778468750003,"end":14039.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14038.140968750002,"end":14039.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14039.64284375,"end":14044.097843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14042.882843750001,"end":14047.590968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14045.937218750001,"end":14049.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14048.519093750001,"end":14054.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14054.83034375,"end":14056.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14057.277218750001,"end":14068.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14068.195343750001,"end":14075.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14073.07221875,"end":14073.578468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14075.535968750002,"end":14080.24409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14079.383468750002,"end":14085.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14080.598468750002,"end":14082.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14082.47159375,"end":14082.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14082.52221875,"end":14083.450343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14083.450343750003,"end":14084.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14084.85096875,"end":14084.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14085.79596875,"end":14085.863468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14085.863468750002,"end":14088.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14086.555343750002,"end":14087.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14088.32721875,"end":14089.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14089.84596875,"end":14094.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14094.53721875,"end":14095.195343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14094.95909375,"end":14099.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14099.71784375,"end":14119.815968750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14118.28034375,"end":14121.942218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14122.144718750002,"end":14122.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14123.106593750003,"end":14125.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14123.29221875,"end":14123.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14126.07659375,"end":14126.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14126.22846875,"end":14133.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14127.359093750001,"end":14127.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14133.687218750001,"end":14140.454093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14137.872218750003,"end":14139.964718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14140.977218750002,"end":14144.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14144.672843750002,"end":14151.321593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14151.726593750001,"end":14154.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14153.380343750003,"end":14167.926593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14168.36534375,"end":14172.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14172.63471875,"end":14174.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14172.938468750002,"end":14173.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14174.79471875,"end":14174.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14174.81159375,"end":14182.962218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14174.845343750003,"end":14175.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14182.050968750002,"end":14182.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14182.962218750003,"end":14192.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14189.965343750002,"end":14191.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14192.344718750002,"end":14192.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14192.41221875,"end":14192.445968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14192.445968750002,"end":14192.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14192.47971875,"end":14194.487843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14192.496593750002,"end":14204.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14204.359718750002,"end":14205.574718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14206.485968750003,"end":14209.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14209.911593750003,"end":14214.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14214.14721875,"end":14219.766593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14220.137843750003,"end":14221.133468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14221.53846875,"end":14224.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14225.453468750002,"end":14228.524718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14228.81159375,"end":14230.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14228.980343750001,"end":14238.430343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14230.39784375,"end":14231.832218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14239.071593750003,"end":14240.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14239.72971875,"end":14253.297218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14240.45534375,"end":14240.539718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14240.539718750002,"end":14240.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14240.55659375,"end":14241.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14241.94034375,"end":14241.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14241.974093750003,"end":14242.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14242.19346875,"end":14242.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14242.497218750003,"end":14242.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14243.712218750003,"end":14244.032843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14244.032843750003,"end":14244.437843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14244.437843750002,"end":14244.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14251.84596875,"end":14253.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14253.297218750002,"end":14254.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14254.17471875,"end":14262.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14254.242218750001,"end":14255.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_26","start":14255.879093750002,"end":14256.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14260.519718750002,"end":14265.126593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14265.430343750002,"end":14270.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14270.20596875,"end":14301.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14281.52909375,"end":14281.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":14281.731593750003,"end":14283.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14283.97596875,"end":14284.347218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14285.02221875,"end":14288.144093750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14288.144093750001,"end":14288.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14288.39721875,"end":14288.464718750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14293.493468750003,"end":14296.952843750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14301.829718750003,"end":14305.187843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14305.187843750002,"end":14305.508468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14305.47471875,"end":14307.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14307.617843750002,"end":14314.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14314.688468750002,"end":14321.961593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14322.14721875,"end":14324.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14324.88096875,"end":14328.20534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14328.542843750001,"end":14331.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14331.360968750003,"end":14346.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14346.531593750002,"end":14348.742218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14349.383468750002,"end":14350.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14351.222843750002,"end":14357.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14357.88846875,"end":14358.563468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14359.42409375,"end":14360.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14361.16221875,"end":14371.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14367.355343750001,"end":14368.165343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14369.886593750001,"end":14371.844093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14371.87784375,"end":14373.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14373.83534375,"end":14380.720343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14381.192843750003,"end":14390.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14384.58471875,"end":14386.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14389.91721875,"end":14389.984718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14389.984718750002,"end":14390.035343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14390.035343750002,"end":14390.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14390.06909375,"end":14390.879093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14391.317843750003,"end":14391.351593750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":14391.351593750001,"end":14391.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14391.38534375,"end":14392.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":14391.942218750002,"end":14391.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":14391.992843750002,"end":14392.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14392.97159375,"end":14406.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14406.77534375,"end":14407.855343750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_31","start":14408.614718750003,"end":14410.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":14418.60471875,"end":14419.094093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14430.501593750003,"end":14430.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14436.509093750003,"end":14437.437218750001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14438.399093750002,"end":14442.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14444.204093750002,"end":14448.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14448.321593750003,"end":14451.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14451.899093750002,"end":14457.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":19727.732843750004,"end":19735.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19753.551593750002,"end":19758.225968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19767.43971875,"end":19769.279093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":19769.194718749997,"end":19769.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19769.54909375,"end":19769.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19769.684093750002,"end":19776.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19776.974093750003,"end":19779.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19779.37034375,"end":19783.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19784.145968750003,"end":19786.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19787.115968750004,"end":19789.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19789.934093750002,"end":19791.199718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19791.317843750003,"end":19796.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19796.24534375,"end":19799.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19800.16034375,"end":19802.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19803.349718750003,"end":19806.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19806.99471875,"end":19808.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19809.22221875,"end":19813.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19814.234093749998,"end":19819.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19819.44846875,"end":19828.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19829.100968749997,"end":19837.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19838.09534375,"end":19839.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19839.833468750003,"end":19844.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19844.693468750003,"end":19848.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19850.00909375,"end":19851.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19851.679718749998,"end":19856.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19855.71284375,"end":19857.72096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19857.872843750003,"end":19863.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19864.302218750003,"end":19867.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19867.72784375,"end":19870.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19871.271593750003,"end":19872.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19872.58784375,"end":19876.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19875.42284375,"end":19882.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19882.69596875,"end":19889.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19885.78409375,"end":19885.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":19885.80096875,"end":19885.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":19886.08784375,"end":19886.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19886.138468750003,"end":19886.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19890.12096875,"end":19893.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19893.344093749998,"end":19907.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19907.51909375,"end":19910.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19910.927843750003,"end":19912.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19912.328468749998,"end":19914.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19914.960968749998,"end":19925.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19925.828468749998,"end":19937.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19937.742218749998,"end":19941.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19942.129718750002,"end":19944.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19945.217843750004,"end":19945.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19946.027843750002,"end":19950.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19949.38596875,"end":19949.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19950.21284375,"end":19954.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19954.600343750004,"end":19956.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19956.507218749997,"end":19959.257843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19959.105968750002,"end":19965.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19965.130343750003,"end":19966.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19965.855968750002,"end":19967.577218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19968.100343750004,"end":19969.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19969.83846875,"end":19975.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19975.896593750003,"end":19982.022218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19980.840968750003,"end":19988.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19989.075968750003,"end":19998.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19989.092843750004,"end":19989.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":19991.03346875,"end":19991.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":19999.25159375,"end":19999.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20000.145968750003,"end":20001.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20001.27659375,"end":20004.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20004.53346875,"end":20006.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20006.55846875,"end":20008.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20009.19096875,"end":20011.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20011.536593750003,"end":20034.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20034.554093749997,"end":20036.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20036.984093749998,"end":20043.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20043.88596875,"end":20048.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20048.982218750003,"end":20050.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20050.73721875,"end":20053.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20053.740968750004,"end":20054.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20054.82096875,"end":20059.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20059.88346875,"end":20062.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20062.98846875,"end":20065.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20065.334093750003,"end":20066.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20066.97096875,"end":20073.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20073.72096875,"end":20105.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20105.44596875,"end":20120.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20121.122843750003,"end":20126.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20126.79284375,"end":20127.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20128.210343749997,"end":20135.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20136.14159375,"end":20137.778468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20138.132843749998,"end":20140.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20140.934093750002,"end":20150.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20151.04221875,"end":20154.552218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20154.855968750002,"end":20157.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20158.21409375,"end":20162.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20162.53409375,"end":20164.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20164.94721875,"end":20171.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20171.444093750004,"end":20175.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20175.460343749997,"end":20176.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20177.16471875,"end":20180.219093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20180.640968749998,"end":20192.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20192.90909375,"end":20193.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20194.090343750002,"end":20196.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20196.520343750002,"end":20206.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20206.780343750004,"end":20207.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20207.910968750002,"end":20212.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20213.78346875,"end":20215.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20215.97721875,"end":20219.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20220.65159375,"end":20223.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20223.452843749998,"end":20223.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20223.46971875,"end":20223.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20224.499093750004,"end":20225.325968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20225.39346875,"end":20225.882843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20225.882843749998,"end":20239.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20239.163468749997,"end":20245.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20245.96409375,"end":20246.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20246.723468750002,"end":20247.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20246.875343749998,"end":20247.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20247.668468750002,"end":20248.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":20248.410968750002,"end":20248.664093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20250.098468750002,"end":20253.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20254.350968749997,"end":20254.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20255.43096875,"end":20257.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20257.810343750003,"end":20259.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20259.36284375,"end":20271.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20272.677218750003,"end":20273.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20273.976593749998,"end":20276.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20276.74409375,"end":20280.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20280.52409375,"end":20282.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20283.460343749997,"end":20284.371593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20286.075968750003,"end":20289.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20289.569093750004,"end":20302.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20302.07346875,"end":20307.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20304.199718750002,"end":20312.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20312.72159375,"end":20314.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20314.020968750003,"end":20319.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20314.358468750004,"end":20314.459718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20318.74596875,"end":20323.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20321.88471875,"end":20322.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20323.28534375,"end":20325.428468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20324.702843749998,"end":20325.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20326.137218750002,"end":20329.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20330.153468750003,"end":20333.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20334.13596875,"end":20337.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20337.29159375,"end":20338.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20339.333468750003,"end":20352.951593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20353.795343750004,"end":20355.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20356.37721875,"end":20371.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20372.07096875,"end":20377.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20377.504718750002,"end":20385.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20383.71471875,"end":20386.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20386.53284375,"end":20419.709093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20418.679718749998,"end":20426.796593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20425.98659375,"end":20429.007218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20429.17596875,"end":20431.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20429.66534375,"end":20432.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20431.504718750002,"end":20438.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20439.06471875,"end":20442.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20443.047218749998,"end":20445.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20445.578468749998,"end":20445.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20445.61221875,"end":20449.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20445.62909375,"end":20446.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20449.00409375,"end":20457.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":20458.15034375,"end":20460.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20459.65221875,"end":20460.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20460.24284375,"end":20463.297218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20463.76971875,"end":20477.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20477.725343750004,"end":20479.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20480.18909375,"end":20485.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20485.403468750003,"end":20489.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20489.942843750003,"end":20493.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20493.739718750003,"end":20504.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20505.012218750002,"end":20536.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20518.765343749998,"end":20520.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20536.146593750003,"end":20544.060968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20544.34784375,"end":20559.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20559.906593749998,"end":20575.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20572.427843750003,"end":20580.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20581.11846875,"end":20583.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20584.27409375,"end":20586.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20586.50159375,"end":20592.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20592.357218750003,"end":20597.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20595.07409375,"end":20597.318468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20597.38596875,"end":20602.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20602.75221875,"end":20603.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20603.05596875,"end":20603.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20603.730968750002,"end":20605.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20604.810968750004,"end":20617.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":20605.958468750003,"end":20606.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20617.43346875,"end":20640.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20627.170343750004,"end":20629.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20638.40909375,"end":20647.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":20646.154718750004,"end":20649.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20648.601593749998,"end":20653.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20654.32221875,"end":20655.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20656.31346875,"end":20672.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_25","start":20669.982218750003,"end":20670.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20676.46221875,"end":20676.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":20676.968468749998,"end":20677.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":20678.824718750002,"end":20681.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":20679.85409375,"end":20680.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20680.19159375,"end":20680.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":20683.718468749998,"end":20685.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20701.97721875,"end":20704.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20704.575968750003,"end":20704.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":20704.609718749998,"end":20706.179093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20714.700968750003,"end":20714.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20714.734718749998,"end":20715.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20714.86971875,"end":20778.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20736.79034375,"end":20736.959093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20772.14346875,"end":20772.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20772.16034375,"end":20772.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20772.36284375,"end":20772.54846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20780.02409375,"end":20781.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20782.15034375,"end":20783.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20783.770343750002,"end":20785.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20785.997843750003,"end":20790.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20791.33034375,"end":20794.317218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20794.452218750004,"end":20794.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20795.21159375,"end":20798.789093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20799.210968749998,"end":20802.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20802.73784375,"end":20804.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20804.49284375,"end":20805.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20805.67409375,"end":20807.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20807.412218750003,"end":20817.975968749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20817.975968749997,"end":20823.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20823.91596875,"end":20829.265343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20829.332843750002,"end":20831.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20830.530968749998,"end":20830.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20831.965343750002,"end":20834.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20832.218468749998,"end":20930.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20839.94721875,"end":20841.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20864.71971875,"end":20864.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":20864.787218750003,"end":20864.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20864.97284375,"end":20865.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":20931.39284375,"end":20967.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20967.724718750003,"end":20972.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20973.07409375,"end":20975.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20975.58846875,"end":20977.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20977.630343750003,"end":20978.710343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20979.199718750002,"end":20982.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20983.08096875,"end":20984.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20984.684093750002,"end":20992.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20992.716593750003,"end":20995.484093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20996.02409375,"end":20997.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20998.16721875,"end":20999.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":20999.61846875,"end":21000.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21000.225968749997,"end":21008.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21008.59596875,"end":21052.015343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21025.79159375,"end":21025.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21025.960343749997,"end":21025.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21025.97721875,"end":21026.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21026.669093750003,"end":21027.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21027.47909375,"end":21028.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21028.01909375,"end":21029.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21029.976593749998,"end":21032.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21052.03221875,"end":21052.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21052.06596875,"end":21055.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21053.97284375,"end":21054.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21055.52534375,"end":21057.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21055.980968750002,"end":21060.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21060.26721875,"end":21069.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21069.615968750004,"end":21076.669718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21077.226593749998,"end":21137.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21089.59596875,"end":21090.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21108.79971875,"end":21108.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21108.81659375,"end":21108.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21108.968468749998,"end":21109.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21137.200343750003,"end":21140.828468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21141.537218750003,"end":21157.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21157.39971875,"end":21164.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":21162.023468749998,"end":21162.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21162.968468749998,"end":21163.896593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21165.246593750002,"end":21167.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21167.74409375,"end":21167.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21168.030968749998,"end":21168.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21168.06471875,"end":21171.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21172.536593750003,"end":21173.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21174.27471875,"end":21175.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21176.31659375,"end":21217.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21218.26784375,"end":21223.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":21223.65096875,"end":21223.920968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21223.920968750004,"end":21232.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21232.881593750004,"end":21237.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21237.859718749998,"end":21275.085968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21242.11221875,"end":21242.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21242.12909375,"end":21242.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21274.17471875,"end":21275.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21276.04784375,"end":21282.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21283.15221875,"end":21284.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21284.58659375,"end":21288.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21288.41721875,"end":21290.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21291.201593750004,"end":21297.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21292.467218750004,"end":21294.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21297.27659375,"end":21298.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21297.58034375,"end":21314.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21301.984718749998,"end":21306.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21315.164093749998,"end":21318.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21315.70409375,"end":21316.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21317.22284375,"end":21322.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21322.87596875,"end":21330.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21330.419093750003,"end":21334.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21334.62096875,"end":21339.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21339.66659375,"end":21395.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21348.762218750002,"end":21348.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21348.812843749998,"end":21348.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21348.96471875,"end":21349.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21350.247218750003,"end":21350.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21396.21471875,"end":21397.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21398.661593750003,"end":21401.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21401.530343750004,"end":21416.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21416.43096875,"end":21430.403468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21427.41659375,"end":21428.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21429.18846875,"end":21472.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21440.25846875,"end":21440.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21440.967218750004,"end":21441.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21441.03471875,"end":21443.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21443.02596875,"end":21444.645968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21459.24284375,"end":21459.715343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21461.740343750003,"end":21461.841593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21469.553468750004,"end":21476.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21475.155968749998,"end":21479.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21476.640968749998,"end":21476.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21479.965343750002,"end":21550.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":21482.98596875,"end":21483.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21483.96471875,"end":21484.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21484.97721875,"end":21486.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21551.295968750004,"end":21554.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21554.856593750003,"end":21555.734093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21555.734093749998,"end":21559.311593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21559.311593750004,"end":21596.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21587.577218750004,"end":21588.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21589.82159375,"end":21592.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21594.07409375,"end":21597.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":21596.436593750004,"end":21618.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21605.46471875,"end":21605.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21617.86784375,"end":21617.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21617.935343750003,"end":21619.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21619.04909375,"end":21619.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21619.06596875,"end":21619.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21619.16721875,"end":21619.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21619.217843750004,"end":21619.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21619.234718749998,"end":21619.335968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21619.943468750003,"end":21621.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21622.01909375,"end":21623.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21623.90909375,"end":21626.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21638.97846875,"end":21641.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":21641.52659375,"end":21642.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21650.68971875,"end":21651.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21651.499718749998,"end":21652.444718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21653.03534375,"end":21656.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21656.49471875,"end":21658.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21658.51971875,"end":21660.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21661.590968750003,"end":21662.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21663.44721875,"end":21669.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21669.99471875,"end":21670.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21671.26034375,"end":21672.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21673.082843750002,"end":21673.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21673.926593750002,"end":21676.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21677.335343749997,"end":21677.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21678.719093749998,"end":21679.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21680.170343750004,"end":21682.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21683.039093749998,"end":21685.654718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21686.66721875,"end":21687.460343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21687.865343750003,"end":21689.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21689.535968750002,"end":21690.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21691.08846875,"end":21692.522843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21693.40034375,"end":21695.762843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21696.201593750004,"end":21702.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21703.575968750003,"end":21708.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21706.866593749997,"end":21707.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21708.70596875,"end":21710.730968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21711.10221875,"end":21715.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21716.08034375,"end":21718.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21718.999718749998,"end":21720.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21720.72096875,"end":21726.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21726.52596875,"end":21729.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21730.272218750004,"end":21733.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21734.288468749997,"end":21736.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21736.75221875,"end":21743.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21744.194093750004,"end":21748.530968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21748.935968750004,"end":21750.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21751.146593750003,"end":21753.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21753.82971875,"end":21758.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21758.35221875,"end":21763.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21763.31346875,"end":21765.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21765.490343750003,"end":21766.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21767.78534375,"end":21768.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21769.57409375,"end":21776.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21776.982218750003,"end":21778.045343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21778.33221875,"end":21779.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21779.310968750004,"end":21779.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21780.036593750003,"end":21782.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21783.68159375,"end":21785.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21786.19596875,"end":21788.389718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21789.098468750002,"end":21791.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21791.91659375,"end":21795.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21791.950343750003,"end":21792.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21792.03471875,"end":21792.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21796.47284375,"end":21803.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21803.577218750004,"end":21806.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21807.357218750003,"end":21809.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21810.107843750004,"end":21812.976593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21813.21284375,"end":21821.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21821.95409375,"end":21825.599093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21825.86909375,"end":21829.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21829.64909375,"end":21832.264718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21832.43346875,"end":21836.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21836.280968749998,"end":21836.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21836.63534375,"end":21837.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21838.32284375,"end":21849.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21846.287843750004,"end":21846.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21847.40159375,"end":21847.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21850.11846875,"end":21851.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21851.92409375,"end":21852.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21852.953468749998,"end":21855.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21855.653468750003,"end":21857.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21857.42534375,"end":21859.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21860.26034375,"end":21863.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21864.59721875,"end":21866.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21866.77409375,"end":21871.296593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21871.718468749998,"end":21872.984093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21873.43971875,"end":21874.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":21875.04284375,"end":21875.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":21875.34659375,"end":21875.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21875.599718750003,"end":21878.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21879.295343750004,"end":21881.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21881.75909375,"end":21884.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":21883.90221875,"end":21885.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21885.26909375,"end":21890.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21891.529718750004,"end":21892.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21893.318468750003,"end":21894.364718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21894.61784375,"end":21895.934093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21896.507843749998,"end":21899.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21900.287843750004,"end":21902.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21902.95409375,"end":21903.038468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21903.05534375,"end":21905.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21906.24471875,"end":21906.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21907.881593750004,"end":21910.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":21910.834718750004,"end":21916.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21912.47159375,"end":21912.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21917.162843750004,"end":21918.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21919.30596875,"end":21920.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21920.89221875,"end":21929.937218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21930.679718749998,"end":21932.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21932.90721875,"end":21933.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":21933.14346875,"end":21933.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21933.16034375,"end":21933.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21933.936593750004,"end":21935.505968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21936.29909375,"end":21938.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21938.121593750002,"end":21940.163468749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21941.074718750002,"end":21942.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21942.50909375,"end":21943.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21943.724093750003,"end":21943.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21944.12909375,"end":21944.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21945.411593750003,"end":21950.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21948.499718749998,"end":21948.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21950.42346875,"end":21956.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21956.177843750003,"end":21957.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":21956.295968750004,"end":21956.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21958.185968750004,"end":21961.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21961.72971875,"end":21963.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21963.73784375,"end":21966.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21967.95659375,"end":21969.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21969.154718750004,"end":21969.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21970.45409375,"end":21972.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21972.58034375,"end":21977.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21977.74409375,"end":21979.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21980.37659375,"end":21985.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21985.55721875,"end":21992.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21993.15096875,"end":21996.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21997.319093750004,"end":21998.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21999.209093750003,"end":22000.390343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22000.84596875,"end":22011.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22011.544718750003,"end":22017.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22018.22721875,"end":22019.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22020.117218749998,"end":22021.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22022.749718749998,"end":22023.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22024.03221875,"end":22025.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22025.53409375,"end":22029.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22029.297218749998,"end":22030.022843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22030.15784375,"end":22030.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22032.014093750004,"end":22034.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22035.32159375,"end":22036.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22038.527843750002,"end":22039.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22039.371593750002,"end":22040.670968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22041.480968750002,"end":22046.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22047.77534375,"end":22052.382218749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22052.449718750002,"end":22053.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22053.090968750003,"end":22053.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22053.59721875,"end":22055.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22055.335343749997,"end":22056.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22055.58846875,"end":22056.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22056.93846875,"end":22062.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22057.664093749998,"end":22057.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22063.047218749998,"end":22066.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22063.94159375,"end":22064.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22066.35471875,"end":22070.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22071.19784375,"end":22075.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22075.450343750003,"end":22076.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22076.80034375,"end":22077.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22077.458468750003,"end":22080.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22080.46221875,"end":22081.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22081.96409375,"end":22084.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22085.052218750003,"end":22087.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22087.617218749998,"end":22088.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22088.747843750003,"end":22090.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22090.755968750003,"end":22093.844093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22094.40096875,"end":22097.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22097.725343750004,"end":22100.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22100.81346875,"end":22104.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22105.25159375,"end":22105.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22106.483468750004,"end":22119.780968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22119.81471875,"end":22126.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22127.18909375,"end":22132.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22132.319093750004,"end":22135.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22135.592843750004,"end":22137.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22138.25909375,"end":22139.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22139.33909375,"end":22146.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22146.865343750003,"end":22149.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22149.818468750003,"end":22161.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22162.559093750002,"end":22164.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22164.989093750002,"end":22171.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22172.21159375,"end":22172.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22172.262218750002,"end":22172.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22172.36346875,"end":22174.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22174.13534375,"end":22175.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22175.569718749997,"end":22175.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22175.637218750002,"end":22184.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22175.755343750003,"end":22176.312218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22177.898468749998,"end":22182.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22183.450343750003,"end":22184.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22184.88471875,"end":22186.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22185.72846875,"end":22188.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22187.75346875,"end":22188.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22189.035968750002,"end":22194.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22193.929718749998,"end":22194.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22194.18284375,"end":22194.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22194.638468750003,"end":22196.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22197.304718749998,"end":22206.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22207.075343750003,"end":22213.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22213.28534375,"end":22214.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22215.47909375,"end":22224.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22224.507218749997,"end":22238.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22238.98596875,"end":22242.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22243.62659375,"end":22244.234093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22244.639093750004,"end":22244.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22244.655968749998,"end":22246.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22246.46159375,"end":22250.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22250.68034375,"end":22255.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22255.810343750003,"end":22266.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22266.053468750004,"end":22268.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22268.601593749998,"end":22270.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22271.08221875,"end":22271.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22272.21284375,"end":22276.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22277.81534375,"end":22280.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22281.257843749998,"end":22301.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22301.676593750002,"end":22303.397843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22303.499093750004,"end":22311.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22312.544093750003,"end":22314.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22314.872843750003,"end":22316.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22316.72909375,"end":22317.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22317.707843750002,"end":22318.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22319.192843750003,"end":22319.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22320.32346875,"end":22323.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22323.647843749997,"end":22324.592843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22325.115968750004,"end":22325.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22326.465968750003,"end":22327.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22328.30534375,"end":22330.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22330.63409375,"end":22332.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22332.76034375,"end":22338.497843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22339.20659375,"end":22339.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22339.965968750003,"end":22341.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22341.41721875,"end":22342.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22342.834718750004,"end":22343.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22344.55596875,"end":22347.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22348.45409375,"end":22348.960343749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22349.65221875,"end":22350.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22351.187843749998,"end":22354.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22354.664093749998,"end":22367.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22368.29909375,"end":22370.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22371.04971875,"end":22371.859718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22372.92284375,"end":22375.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22375.622843750003,"end":22377.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22377.79971875,"end":22378.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22379.217218750004,"end":22379.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22380.297218749998,"end":22383.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22384.195343749998,"end":22384.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22386.33846875,"end":22390.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22390.911593750003,"end":22391.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22392.16034375,"end":22396.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22396.54784375,"end":22397.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22397.577218750004,"end":22399.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22399.905968749998,"end":22402.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22402.943468750003,"end":22411.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22412.07284375,"end":22412.562218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22412.07284375,"end":22413.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22413.87846875,"end":22415.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22416.527843750002,"end":22427.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22423.733468750004,"end":22423.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22423.96971875,"end":22424.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22427.648468749998,"end":22429.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22430.247218750003,"end":22434.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22435.630343750003,"end":22438.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22439.57909375,"end":22440.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22440.94596875,"end":22443.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22444.32096875,"end":22445.569718749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22446.46409375,"end":22446.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22447.560968750004,"end":22450.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22451.054093749997,"end":22451.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22451.61096875,"end":22457.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22457.770343750002,"end":22458.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22459.44096875,"end":22460.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22460.47034375,"end":22461.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22461.904718750004,"end":22464.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22464.216593750003,"end":22467.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22468.06409375,"end":22469.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22470.29159375,"end":22473.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22473.632843749998,"end":22474.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22474.69596875,"end":22478.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22480.382843749998,"end":22494.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22495.36784375,"end":22496.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22497.39284375,"end":22502.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22503.28221875,"end":22508.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22509.053468750004,"end":22519.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22519.094093749998,"end":22529.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22530.147218750004,"end":22532.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22531.26096875,"end":22531.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22532.239718750003,"end":22537.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22556.75909375,"end":22558.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22558.733468750004,"end":22560.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22562.648468749998,"end":22563.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22563.880343750003,"end":22564.943468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22563.93096875,"end":22565.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22565.39909375,"end":22565.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22565.43284375,"end":22565.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22565.483468750004,"end":22565.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22565.770343750002,"end":22565.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22568.04846875,"end":22569.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22569.567218750002,"end":22570.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":22569.61784375,"end":22570.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22570.866593749997,"end":22576.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22577.44784375,"end":22580.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22580.856593750003,"end":22593.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22595.92596875,"end":22599.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22597.765343749998,"end":22599.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22599.317843750003,"end":22600.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22600.33034375,"end":22602.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22602.827843749998,"end":22604.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22604.700968750003,"end":22604.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22605.139718750004,"end":22619.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22619.483468750004,"end":22622.655968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22623.044093750003,"end":22628.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22629.11909375,"end":22632.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22632.882218749997,"end":22636.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22636.61159375,"end":22640.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22642.669718750003,"end":22643.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22643.27721875,"end":22645.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22645.69034375,"end":22647.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22646.247218750003,"end":22648.491593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22647.934718750003,"end":22657.570343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22658.04284375,"end":22661.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22662.12659375,"end":22672.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22672.97721875,"end":22673.804093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22673.989718750003,"end":22677.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22677.22971875,"end":22678.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22678.748468750004,"end":22680.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22679.96346875,"end":22694.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22685.582843750002,"end":22686.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22694.897843749997,"end":22705.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22697.850968749997,"end":22699.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22700.247218750003,"end":22700.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22703.318468750003,"end":22710.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22711.08096875,"end":22725.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22715.94096875,"end":22716.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22719.72096875,"end":22721.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22723.43346875,"end":22724.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22725.64409375,"end":22729.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22725.998468750004,"end":22726.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22730.68971875,"end":22732.242218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22730.723468750002,"end":22739.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22733.490968750004,"end":22733.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":22733.55846875,"end":22733.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22733.609093749998,"end":22733.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22734.216593750003,"end":22734.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22734.46971875,"end":22734.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22739.97096875,"end":22740.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22740.89909375,"end":22741.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22741.74284375,"end":22742.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22742.974718750003,"end":22744.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22745.219093749998,"end":22746.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22746.60284375,"end":22753.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22753.943468750003,"end":22756.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22755.765968749998,"end":22756.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22756.913468749997,"end":22757.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22757.57159375,"end":22760.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22760.74409375,"end":22763.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22764.203468749998,"end":22765.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22765.50284375,"end":22766.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22767.29159375,"end":22772.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22771.40909375,"end":22775.374718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22773.872843750003,"end":22774.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22774.96971875,"end":22775.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22775.037218750003,"end":22776.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22775.83034375,"end":22776.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22776.97784375,"end":22790.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22778.918468750002,"end":22779.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22781.584718750004,"end":22782.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22789.819718749997,"end":22801.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22795.23659375,"end":22798.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22801.24409375,"end":22854.366593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22804.63596875,"end":22805.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22807.926593750002,"end":22809.647843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22811.47034375,"end":22812.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22855.210343749997,"end":22861.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22860.812843749998,"end":22874.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22861.825343750003,"end":22862.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22874.85284375,"end":22876.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22875.105968750002,"end":22879.679093749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22877.51909375,"end":22881.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22881.18096875,"end":22882.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22883.42534375,"end":22883.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":22883.695343749998,"end":22884.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22884.75846875,"end":22901.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22901.63346875,"end":22906.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22907.69159375,"end":22908.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":22908.72096875,"end":22909.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":22909.26096875,"end":22920.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22917.630968750003,"end":22919.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22920.786593750003,"end":22921.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22922.406593749998,"end":22929.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22929.51096875,"end":22929.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22930.13534375,"end":22931.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22933.83096875,"end":22935.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22935.349718750003,"end":22935.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22935.72096875,"end":22940.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":22944.36096875,"end":22955.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22953.405968749998,"end":22960.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":22960.49346875,"end":22967.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22961.100968749997,"end":22961.843468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22963.04159375,"end":22963.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22963.68284375,"end":22963.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22965.842843750004,"end":22967.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_20","start":22967.58096875,"end":22967.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22967.98596875,"end":22972.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22968.71159375,"end":22968.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22970.71971875,"end":22979.241593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22973.04846875,"end":22973.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":22977.351593749998,"end":22978.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22978.97159375,"end":22979.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22979.781593749998,"end":22985.147843749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22985.569718749997,"end":22991.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22992.319718749997,"end":22994.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22994.631593750004,"end":22995.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22996.234718749998,"end":22999.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":22999.997843750003,"end":23003.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23003.355968750002,"end":23004.452843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23004.520343750002,"end":23009.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23010.139718750004,"end":23014.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23014.341593750003,"end":23020.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23020.63596875,"end":23022.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23023.13346875,"end":23025.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23025.732218750003,"end":23025.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23026.575968750003,"end":23036.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23030.03534375,"end":23030.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23034.794093750003,"end":23036.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23036.397218750004,"end":23036.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23036.498468750004,"end":23045.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23036.582843750002,"end":23036.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23045.678468750004,"end":23051.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23051.669093750003,"end":23053.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23053.84596875,"end":23054.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23055.145343750002,"end":23055.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23055.31409375,"end":23056.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23055.33096875,"end":23057.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23058.030968749998,"end":23058.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":23058.80721875,"end":23058.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23060.967218750004,"end":23073.117218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23073.117218749998,"end":23073.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23074.31534375,"end":23080.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23080.10346875,"end":23100.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23099.39159375,"end":23105.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23105.702843749998,"end":23122.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23121.531593749998,"end":23122.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23122.69596875,"end":23122.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23122.780343750004,"end":23122.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23122.83096875,"end":23122.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23123.35409375,"end":23125.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23124.029093750003,"end":23124.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23125.109093749998,"end":23129.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23129.749718749998,"end":23131.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23131.80846875,"end":23134.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23135.655968749998,"end":23150.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23150.86034375,"end":23150.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23150.87721875,"end":23153.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23153.10471875,"end":23157.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23157.50909375,"end":23161.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23161.879718750002,"end":23168.123468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":23163.398468749998,"end":23164.866593749997},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23168.37659375,"end":23175.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23175.97034375,"end":23176.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23176.240343750003,"end":23193.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23194.44846875,"end":23197.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23198.56596875,"end":23200.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23201.350343750004,"end":23207.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23208.37034375,"end":23230.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23223.54096875,"end":23223.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23226.49409375,"end":23226.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23227.000343749998,"end":23227.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23229.818468750003,"end":23238.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23238.239093750002,"end":23240.804093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23239.15034375,"end":23239.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23240.21346875,"end":23240.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23241.17534375,"end":23246.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23245.03971875,"end":23246.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23246.710343750005,"end":23252.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23252.937218749998,"end":23255.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23255.29971875,"end":23258.067218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23258.23596875,"end":23259.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23260.04159375,"end":23261.273468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23261.897843750005,"end":23262.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23261.982218750003,"end":23266.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23264.34471875,"end":23266.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23266.25159375,"end":23274.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23267.41596875,"end":23268.411593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23273.693468750003,"end":23283.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23282.957843750002,"end":23283.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23283.632843749998,"end":23289.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23283.66659375,"end":23284.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23284.83096875,"end":23285.320343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23285.320343749998,"end":23285.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23287.14284375,"end":23288.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23289.33659375,"end":23300.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":23300.187218749998,"end":23304.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23304.43971875,"end":23310.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23310.514718750004,"end":23311.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23311.84784375,"end":23320.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23320.420343750004,"end":23320.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23321.669093750003,"end":23322.867218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23323.01909375,"end":23327.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23327.64284375,"end":23329.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23330.022218750004,"end":23330.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23330.05596875,"end":23334.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23334.71346875,"end":23341.109093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23341.919093750003,"end":23348.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23348.770343750002,"end":23351.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23351.67284375,"end":23352.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23353.36034375,"end":23355.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23355.098468750002,"end":23355.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23355.18284375,"end":23356.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23356.02659375,"end":23357.241593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23357.849093750003,"end":23357.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23357.865968750004,"end":23367.974093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23364.68346875,"end":23365.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23367.974093750003,"end":23368.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23368.02471875,"end":23368.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23368.48034375,"end":23380.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23368.514093750004,"end":23368.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23380.78221875,"end":23384.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23384.747843750003,"end":23386.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23386.36784375,"end":23388.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23389.11846875,"end":23393.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23393.79284375,"end":23394.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23394.029093750003,"end":23394.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23394.434093750002,"end":23396.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23394.484718749998,"end":23399.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23400.22221875,"end":23404.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23404.93034375,"end":23410.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23410.515968749998,"end":23411.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23410.56659375,"end":23411.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23411.37659375,"end":23411.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23411.545343750004,"end":23411.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23411.967218750004,"end":23424.825968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23414.802218750003,"end":23415.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23415.91596875,"end":23417.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23422.615343750003,"end":23423.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23425.29846875,"end":23430.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23431.694093750004,"end":23437.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23437.904093750003,"end":23441.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23442.20721875,"end":23445.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23446.72971875,"end":23447.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23451.03284375,"end":23451.741593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23452.51784375,"end":23453.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23453.395343750002,"end":23454.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23454.255968750003,"end":23455.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23455.35284375,"end":23460.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23461.242218749998,"end":23461.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23461.950968750003,"end":23462.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23462.84534375,"end":23464.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23463.99284375,"end":23468.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23467.739093750002,"end":23469.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23469.224093750003,"end":23471.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":23470.489718750003,"end":23471.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23471.029718750004,"end":23471.367218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23471.40096875,"end":23471.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23471.72159375,"end":23477.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23491.499093750004,"end":23503.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23503.497218750003,"end":23503.514093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23503.66596875,"end":23505.707843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23510.71971875,"end":23511.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_33","start":23511.951593750004,"end":23511.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23511.968468749998,"end":23514.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23513.26784375,"end":23513.335343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23513.335343750005,"end":23513.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23514.786593750003,"end":23516.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":23516.710343750005,"end":23516.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23516.72721875,"end":23517.115343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23517.233468750004,"end":23517.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23518.22909375,"end":23518.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23519.663468750005,"end":23521.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23521.62096875,"end":23524.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23524.47284375,"end":23526.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23526.835343750005,"end":23527.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23527.746593750002,"end":23528.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23528.421593749998,"end":23529.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23530.14284375,"end":23533.568468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23533.585343750005,"end":23534.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23534.90159375,"end":23535.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23535.96471875,"end":23543.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23544.250343749998,"end":23545.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23545.53284375,"end":23547.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23547.22034375,"end":23549.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23549.56596875,"end":23550.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23550.93284375,"end":23557.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23557.14284375,"end":23557.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23557.615343750003,"end":23566.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23566.980968750002,"end":23567.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23567.79096875,"end":23571.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23571.334718750004,"end":23573.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23573.629718750002,"end":23577.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23577.73034375,"end":23594.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23595.31409375,"end":23595.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23595.65159375,"end":23598.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23598.40221875,"end":23601.304718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23601.810968750004,"end":23616.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23607.75096875,"end":23609.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":23611.716593750003,"end":23611.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23617.16721875,"end":23623.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23623.81596875,"end":23628.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23629.18221875,"end":23633.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23633.654093750003,"end":23642.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23642.56409375,"end":23646.512843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23646.867218749998,"end":23652.874718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23653.00971875,"end":23665.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23659.489718750003,"end":23660.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23665.294718750003,"end":23665.328468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23665.733468750004,"end":23673.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23673.630968750003,"end":23675.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23675.58846875,"end":23678.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23679.334718750004,"end":23688.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23688.14346875,"end":23691.687218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23692.109093749998,"end":23698.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23698.757843749998,"end":23700.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23700.27659375,"end":23711.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23711.32971875,"end":23714.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23715.092843750004,"end":23716.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23717.13471875,"end":23721.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23721.26909375,"end":23729.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23729.18346875,"end":23733.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23734.12784375,"end":23734.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23735.07284375,"end":23736.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23736.186593750004,"end":23758.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23743.29096875,"end":23744.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23751.10409375,"end":23751.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":23758.81596875,"end":23767.169093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23761.279718750004,"end":23761.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23767.185968750004,"end":23773.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23774.08784375,"end":23778.694718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23779.26846875,"end":23798.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23798.97846875,"end":23801.121593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23801.459093750003,"end":23804.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23805.22221875,"end":23806.842218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23807.061593750004,"end":23807.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23808.66471875,"end":23809.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23810.08221875,"end":23811.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23812.242218749998,"end":23814.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23814.72284375,"end":23819.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23818.755968750003,"end":23830.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23830.41659375,"end":23831.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23831.58096875,"end":23835.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23835.79971875,"end":23837.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23837.36909375,"end":23838.600968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23838.803468750004,"end":23840.288468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23840.33909375,"end":23842.684718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23842.97159375,"end":23845.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23845.68846875,"end":23850.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23850.632843749998,"end":23855.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23859.00284375,"end":23863.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23863.035968750002,"end":23864.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23864.976593749998,"end":23865.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23865.12846875,"end":23865.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23865.22971875,"end":23873.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23865.398468749998,"end":23865.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23874.645968750003,"end":23885.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23885.749718749998,"end":23887.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23887.639718750004,"end":23893.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":23894.62596875,"end":23894.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23895.30096875,"end":23900.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23901.021593750003,"end":23908.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23909.00346875,"end":23913.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23913.54284375,"end":23920.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23920.343468749998,"end":23926.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23926.90784375,"end":23928.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23928.848468750002,"end":23942.162843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23942.500343749998,"end":23945.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23945.68971875,"end":23946.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23946.44909375,"end":23951.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23951.342843750004,"end":23952.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":23952.574718750002,"end":23965.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23965.872218750003,"end":23966.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23966.749718749998,"end":23974.022843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23974.022843750005,"end":23974.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23974.69784375,"end":23974.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23974.90034375,"end":23975.62596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23976.36846875,"end":23986.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23986.898468749998,"end":23987.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23988.38346875,"end":23990.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":23991.04971875,"end":23994.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":23994.96471875,"end":24007.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24007.570343749998,"end":24008.380343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24008.498468750004,"end":24028.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24028.69784375,"end":24032.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24033.405968749998,"end":24036.679718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24036.89909375,"end":24046.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24046.686593750004,"end":24048.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24048.42471875,"end":24051.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24051.37784375,"end":24064.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24064.21971875,"end":24100.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24101.27721875,"end":24105.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24105.833468750003,"end":24107.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24107.36909375,"end":24110.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24111.014093750004,"end":24113.140343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24113.41034375,"end":24116.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24116.88659375,"end":24130.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24130.03221875,"end":24130.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24130.082843750002,"end":24130.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24130.099718750003,"end":24130.116593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24130.48784375,"end":24132.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24133.40721875,"end":24136.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24136.39409375,"end":24138.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24139.11096875,"end":24141.625343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24142.013468750003,"end":24143.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24144.122843750003,"end":24145.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24145.388468750003,"end":24153.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24153.97784375,"end":24160.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24160.812218749998,"end":24169.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24169.30034375,"end":24170.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24170.380343750003,"end":24175.49346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24175.71284375,"end":24178.834718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24179.155343750004,"end":24179.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24180.201593750004,"end":24184.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24184.25159375,"end":24188.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24188.537843750004,"end":24190.967843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24191.170343750004,"end":24196.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24196.840343750002,"end":24198.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24198.49409375,"end":24207.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24208.19721875,"end":24211.757843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24211.926593750002,"end":24214.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24214.50846875,"end":24216.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24217.37721875,"end":24222.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24222.42284375,"end":24230.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24230.96159375,"end":24239.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24239.770343750002,"end":24240.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24240.951593750004,"end":24243.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24244.107218750003,"end":24254.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24245.254718750002,"end":24245.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24252.81471875,"end":24253.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":24254.48534375,"end":24302.747843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24302.781593749998,"end":24343.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24343.82159375,"end":24344.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24344.209718750004,"end":24349.812218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24350.014718750004,"end":24353.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24353.254718750002,"end":24358.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24358.82346875,"end":24359.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24359.616593750005,"end":24360.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24360.47721875,"end":24372.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24373.13346875,"end":24374.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24374.027843750002,"end":24374.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24374.82096875,"end":24378.803468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24379.529093750003,"end":24382.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24382.920968750004,"end":24385.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24385.60409375,"end":24398.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":24385.654718750004,"end":24385.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24385.975343750004,"end":24386.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24398.648468749998,"end":24401.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24401.264093750004,"end":24402.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24403.20471875,"end":24415.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24415.928468750004,"end":24415.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_32","start":24416.09721875,"end":24416.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24416.114093750002,"end":24416.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24419.05034375,"end":24419.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24420.670343750004,"end":24422.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24423.03284375,"end":24425.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24426.86346875,"end":24428.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24438.97971875,"end":24444.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":24443.41784375,"end":24443.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24453.779093750003,"end":24453.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24453.914093749998,"end":24454.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24454.36971875,"end":24454.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24454.859093749998,"end":24459.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24460.107218750003,"end":24467.498468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24468.004718750002,"end":24470.80596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24470.94096875,"end":24472.020968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24472.341593750003,"end":24473.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24474.147218750004,"end":24477.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24477.87659375,"end":24482.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24482.63534375,"end":24486.398468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24486.600968750005,"end":24487.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24487.512218750002,"end":24491.005343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24491.224718750003,"end":24493.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24494.11034375,"end":24504.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24504.825968750003,"end":24509.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24510.512843750003,"end":24513.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24513.803468750004,"end":24517.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24518.123468750004,"end":24521.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24521.194718750005,"end":24532.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24532.82159375,"end":24538.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24538.035968750002,"end":24538.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24538.50846875,"end":24538.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24538.66034375,"end":24538.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24538.74471875,"end":24539.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24539.115968750004,"end":24539.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24539.335343750005,"end":24539.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24539.35221875,"end":24541.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24542.288468750005,"end":24545.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24545.27534375,"end":24546.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24546.287843750004,"end":24548.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24549.156593749998,"end":24553.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24553.459718750004,"end":24554.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24554.79284375,"end":24557.239718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24557.32409375,"end":24558.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24558.825968750003,"end":24561.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24562.335968749998,"end":24568.765343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24569.153468750003,"end":24569.187218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24569.187218749998,"end":24569.609093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24569.912843750004,"end":24573.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24573.152843750002,"end":24582.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24582.434093750002,"end":24585.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24585.55596875,"end":24595.647218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24595.79909375,"end":24603.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24603.325343750003,"end":24606.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24606.14346875,"end":24609.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24609.41721875,"end":24611.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24611.880968750003,"end":24611.897843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24611.91471875,"end":24614.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24614.395343750002,"end":24618.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24618.56346875,"end":24619.913468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24620.50409375,"end":24622.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24622.765343749998,"end":24623.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24623.86221875,"end":24624.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24624.92534375,"end":24625.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24626.123468750004,"end":24639.505343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24626.15721875,"end":24628.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24639.79221875,"end":24639.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24639.809093750002,"end":24645.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24645.225968750005,"end":24647.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24647.58846875,"end":24672.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24673.035968750002,"end":24677.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24678.537218750003,"end":24679.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24679.701593750004,"end":24682.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24682.58721875,"end":24685.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24685.709093750003,"end":24696.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24697.26846875,"end":24702.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24702.33096875,"end":24705.621593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24705.942218750002,"end":24711.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24711.37596875,"end":24714.936593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24715.18971875,"end":24720.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24720.944093750004,"end":24722.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24722.327843749998,"end":24725.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24726.209093750003,"end":24738.325343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24738.780968749998,"end":24748.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24748.41659375,"end":24756.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24756.499718749998,"end":24783.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24759.82409375,"end":24760.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":24762.54096875,"end":24762.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24780.023468749998,"end":24780.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24781.879718750002,"end":24801.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24802.82159375,"end":24805.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24805.639718750004,"end":24811.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24812.085968749998,"end":24815.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24816.45659375,"end":24816.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24817.18221875,"end":24820.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24820.793468750002,"end":24821.046593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24821.06346875,"end":24821.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24821.333468750003,"end":24860.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24860.382218750005,"end":24864.567218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24865.140968749998,"end":24869.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24869.984093749998,"end":24871.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24871.654718750004,"end":24873.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24873.949718750002,"end":24898.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24899.11034375,"end":24904.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24903.919718750003,"end":24907.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24906.51846875,"end":24906.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24907.935968750004,"end":24907.952843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24907.952843749998,"end":24931.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24907.96971875,"end":24908.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24908.62784375,"end":24909.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24909.26909375,"end":24909.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24909.33659375,"end":24909.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":24909.97784375,"end":24910.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24932.13471875,"end":24949.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24949.44846875,"end":24954.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24954.73034375,"end":24966.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":24966.812843749998,"end":24969.225968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24969.46221875,"end":24994.605968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24994.757843749998,"end":24999.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":24999.93846875,"end":25001.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25001.44034375,"end":25004.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25005.085343750005,"end":25013.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25014.164093749998,"end":25025.537843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25026.567218750002,"end":25027.022843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25027.343468749998,"end":25033.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25033.94159375,"end":25041.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25041.60284375,"end":25044.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25044.640343749998,"end":25048.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25049.078468749998,"end":25059.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25059.270968750003,"end":25061.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25061.076593750004,"end":25070.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25070.796593749998,"end":25074.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25074.694718750005,"end":25077.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25077.968468749998,"end":25082.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25082.474093750003,"end":25083.520343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25083.70596875,"end":25092.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25093.07159375,"end":25114.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25115.21159375,"end":25117.945343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25118.40096875,"end":25126.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25126.43346875,"end":25126.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25127.496593750002,"end":25131.749093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25132.052843750003,"end":25133.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25134.246593750002,"end":25138.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25139.27534375,"end":25143.105968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25143.426593750002,"end":25143.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25144.371593750002,"end":25149.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25150.109093749998,"end":25153.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25150.54784375,"end":25152.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25153.804718749998,"end":25155.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25155.61034375,"end":25159.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25160.014718750004,"end":25165.819718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25166.460968749998,"end":25191.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25191.92534375,"end":25192.802843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25192.819718750005,"end":25197.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25197.139718750004,"end":25201.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25201.52721875,"end":25207.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25208.17596875,"end":25209.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25209.475343750004,"end":25213.559093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25213.96409375,"end":25216.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25216.242218749998,"end":25221.068468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25221.152843750002,"end":25224.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25225.405343750004,"end":25233.285968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25233.48846875,"end":25234.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25234.72034375,"end":25240.356593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25241.06534375,"end":25242.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25242.989093750002,"end":25243.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25244.55846875,"end":25248.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25249.334093750003,"end":25255.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25256.57346875,"end":25257.450968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25257.687218749998,"end":25263.677843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25264.217843750004,"end":25265.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25265.365343750003,"end":25267.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25267.54221875,"end":25270.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25270.68096875,"end":25277.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25277.44784375,"end":25280.569718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25281.02534375,"end":25282.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25282.257218750005,"end":25289.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25289.88471875,"end":25295.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25295.959718750004,"end":25298.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_36","start":25296.044093750003,"end":25296.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25299.014093750004,"end":25302.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25300.904093750003,"end":25304.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25304.66721875,"end":25308.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25308.98721875,"end":25312.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25312.514093750004,"end":25316.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25317.458468750003,"end":25323.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25323.381593750004,"end":25326.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_30","start":25327.380968750003,"end":25346.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":25346.044718750003,"end":25346.669093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25346.044718750003,"end":25347.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":25347.69846875,"end":25355.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":25355.629718750002,"end":25358.093468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25368.69096875,"end":25368.927218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":25374.91784375,"end":25375.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":25376.335343750005,"end":25382.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25377.887843750003,"end":25378.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25397.732843750004,"end":25402.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":25402.00221875,"end":25402.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25411.047218749998,"end":25424.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25413.342218750004,"end":25413.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25413.39284375,"end":25413.81471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25413.81471875,"end":25413.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25425.357218750003,"end":25426.724093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25426.825343750003,"end":25427.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25427.787218750003,"end":25430.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25431.145343750002,"end":25431.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25432.343468749998,"end":25436.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25436.342843750004,"end":25439.700968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25440.27471875,"end":25442.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25442.772218750004,"end":25444.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25444.61159375,"end":25445.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25446.94034375,"end":25448.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25448.475968750005,"end":25449.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25450.61909375,"end":25452.694718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25453.521593750003,"end":25453.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25454.51721875,"end":25456.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25456.66034375,"end":25457.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25458.077843749998,"end":25458.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25459.630343750003,"end":25465.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25465.637843750003,"end":25467.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25468.96221875,"end":25470.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25470.818468750003,"end":25474.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25475.07096875,"end":25478.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25479.28971875,"end":25480.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25481.922218749998,"end":25484.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25484.36909375,"end":25488.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25489.364093750002,"end":25490.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25491.929093750005,"end":25496.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25496.991593750005,"end":25498.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25497.00846875,"end":25499.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25499.725343750004,"end":25505.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25505.834093750003,"end":25505.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25505.90159375,"end":25505.918468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25505.918468750002,"end":25505.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25505.935343750003,"end":25506.897218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25506.22221875,"end":25510.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25508.466593750003,"end":25516.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25517.29221875,"end":25518.692843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25519.570343749998,"end":25522.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25522.23659375,"end":25524.379718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25524.734093749998,"end":25527.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25527.82221875,"end":25539.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25536.968468749998,"end":25559.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25559.02409375,"end":25559.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25559.074718750002,"end":25559.108468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25559.47971875,"end":25559.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25559.513468750003,"end":25560.272843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25560.272843750005,"end":25560.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25560.340343750002,"end":25566.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25566.280343750004,"end":25567.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25568.11971875,"end":25569.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25569.756593750004,"end":25570.701593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25571.039093749998,"end":25572.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25572.794093750003,"end":25574.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25574.582843750002,"end":25576.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25576.99596875,"end":25577.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25577.60346875,"end":25579.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25579.965968750003,"end":25580.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25580.843468749998,"end":25580.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25580.86034375,"end":25585.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25585.382843749998,"end":25587.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25588.302218750003,"end":25590.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25590.46221875,"end":25591.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25592.25096875,"end":25593.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25593.02721875,"end":25593.077843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25593.65159375,"end":25593.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25593.668468750002,"end":25594.343468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25595.777843750002,"end":25607.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25607.286593750003,"end":25609.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25609.58159375,"end":25611.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25611.437843749998,"end":25612.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25612.450343750003,"end":25614.053468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25614.20534375,"end":25616.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25617.225968750005,"end":25617.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25618.187843749998,"end":25623.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25624.515968749998,"end":25628.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25629.05534375,"end":25632.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25634.640968749998,"end":25635.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25635.248468750004,"end":25636.007843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25636.26096875,"end":25637.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25638.707843750002,"end":25640.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25640.817218750002,"end":25645.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25641.593468749998,"end":25642.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25646.06534375,"end":25653.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25653.67596875,"end":25655.920343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25656.527843750002,"end":25661.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25661.910968750002,"end":25663.210343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25663.277843750002,"end":25665.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25666.450343750003,"end":25667.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25667.05784375,"end":25667.074718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25667.074718750002,"end":25667.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25667.209718750004,"end":25667.496593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25667.496593750002,"end":25667.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25668.01971875,"end":25668.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25668.036593750003,"end":25668.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25668.40784375,"end":25668.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25668.897218750004,"end":25671.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25671.647843750005,"end":25675.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25675.967843750004,"end":25680.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25681.70534375,"end":25682.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25682.835968749998,"end":25683.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25684.32096875,"end":25686.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25688.43846875,"end":25689.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25689.906593749998,"end":25696.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25693.85534375,"end":25697.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25698.66471875,"end":25699.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25699.10346875,"end":25703.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25703.76096875,"end":25705.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25705.296593749998,"end":25707.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25707.65909375,"end":25708.047218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25708.418468750002,"end":25708.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25708.452218750004,"end":25711.810343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25711.911593750003,"end":25716.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25716.974093750003,"end":25719.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25719.842843750004,"end":25722.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25723.26846875,"end":25726.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25727.14971875,"end":25730.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25731.334718750004,"end":25732.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25733.545343750004,"end":25738.388468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25739.367218749998,"end":25741.324718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25741.40909375,"end":25744.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25744.24409375,"end":25745.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25745.796593749998,"end":25748.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25749.44159375,"end":25750.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25750.825343750003,"end":25754.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25754.67284375,"end":25756.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25756.545968750004,"end":25759.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25759.465343750002,"end":25770.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25770.754718750002,"end":25773.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25773.741593750005,"end":25781.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25782.060968750004,"end":25783.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25783.950968750003,"end":25783.984718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25783.984718749998,"end":25784.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25784.03534375,"end":25785.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25784.64284375,"end":25788.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25789.16534375,"end":25789.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25789.840343750002,"end":25792.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25792.405343750004,"end":25797.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25797.872843750003,"end":25810.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25810.410968750002,"end":25810.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25810.427843750003,"end":25812.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25813.00971875,"end":25815.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25816.38471875,"end":25818.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25819.202843749998,"end":25821.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25822.375343749998,"end":25827.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25828.163468750005,"end":25829.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25829.513468750003,"end":25837.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25838.03534375,"end":25840.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25841.123468750004,"end":25844.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25843.840343750002,"end":25858.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25859.247218750003,"end":25859.280968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25859.280968749998,"end":25859.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25859.83784375,"end":25860.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25860.023468749998,"end":25860.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25860.81659375,"end":25863.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25862.132843749998,"end":25867.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25867.802843750003,"end":25870.131593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25869.389093750004,"end":25877.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25871.56596875,"end":25871.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25873.101593749998,"end":25873.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25877.522843750005,"end":25885.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":25887.090968750003,"end":25887.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25887.88409375,"end":25887.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25888.289093749998,"end":25891.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25891.81596875,"end":25898.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25897.78971875,"end":25898.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25898.24534375,"end":25898.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25898.44784375,"end":25898.515343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25898.53221875,"end":25909.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25909.349093750003,"end":25920.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":25911.54284375,"end":25911.559718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":25911.559718750003,"end":25911.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25921.397843750005,"end":25922.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25923.709718750004,"end":25924.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25925.481593750003,"end":25926.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25926.865343750003,"end":25927.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25928.451593750004,"end":25931.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25932.51846875,"end":25933.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25934.172218749998,"end":25934.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25935.218468749998,"end":25936.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25937.34471875,"end":25937.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25937.817218750002,"end":25938.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":25937.918468750002,"end":25937.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25939.77471875,"end":25941.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25941.411593750003,"end":25941.630968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25941.867218749998,"end":25946.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25947.199718750002,"end":25947.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25948.43159375,"end":25954.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25954.624718749998,"end":25957.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25957.780343750004,"end":25959.012218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25959.366593750005,"end":25960.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25960.497218750003,"end":25961.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25962.539093749998,"end":25964.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25965.84659375,"end":25973.153468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25974.115343750003,"end":25976.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25977.405968749998,"end":25980.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25980.73034375,"end":25985.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25987.277843750002,"end":25990.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25990.85534375,"end":25991.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25992.62721875,"end":25993.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25994.044718750003,"end":25994.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25995.715343750002,"end":25998.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":25998.53346875,"end":25999.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26000.069093750004,"end":26001.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26002.41471875,"end":26003.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26003.646593750003,"end":26004.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26005.51971875,"end":26009.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26011.240343750003,"end":26012.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26012.219093749998,"end":26012.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26013.28221875,"end":26013.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26014.58159375,"end":26016.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26016.623468750004,"end":26019.779093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26020.16721875,"end":26021.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26022.209093750003,"end":26023.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26024.58846875,"end":26026.630343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26026.81596875,"end":26028.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26028.857843750004,"end":26030.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26032.60409375,"end":26035.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26035.489718750003,"end":26039.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26040.21471875,"end":26045.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26046.137843750003,"end":26048.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26049.27659375,"end":26050.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26052.263468750003,"end":26054.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26054.74409375,"end":26056.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26057.730968750002,"end":26059.975343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26060.937218749998,"end":26061.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26062.084718750004,"end":26062.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26062.87784375,"end":26066.725343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26067.61971875,"end":26069.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26070.184718750003,"end":26071.062218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26071.484093749998,"end":26073.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26074.639718750004,"end":26075.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26075.55096875,"end":26077.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26078.92596875,"end":26080.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26081.288468750005,"end":26084.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26084.950343750003,"end":26089.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26090.215343750002,"end":26091.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26092.780343750004,"end":26094.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26095.78409375,"end":26097.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26097.87659375,"end":26098.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26100.32346875,"end":26104.457843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26105.26784375,"end":26108.069093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26109.38534375,"end":26110.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26112.86159375,"end":26116.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26117.046593749998,"end":26118.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26118.75096875,"end":26120.607218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26120.927843750003,"end":26122.277843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26122.98659375,"end":26123.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26123.897843750005,"end":26127.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26128.825343750003,"end":26129.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26130.15846875,"end":26132.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26133.060968750004,"end":26133.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26134.49534375,"end":26135.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26136.60471875,"end":26139.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26139.507218750005,"end":26145.717218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26146.442843750003,"end":26146.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26147.23596875,"end":26149.429718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26150.340968750003,"end":26151.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":26152.804718749998,"end":26152.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26152.82159375,"end":26154.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26154.64409375,"end":26155.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26156.145968750003,"end":26156.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26157.17534375,"end":26158.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26160.22971875,"end":26169.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26168.34659375,"end":26169.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26169.62909375,"end":26178.842843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26170.55721875,"end":26170.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26178.100343750004,"end":26191.279718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26189.895968750003,"end":26191.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26191.583468750003,"end":26191.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26191.87034375,"end":26191.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26191.887218750002,"end":26193.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26191.904093750003,"end":26192.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26192.882843749998,"end":26194.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":26193.996593750002,"end":26198.687843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26198.957843750002,"end":26198.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26198.974718750003,"end":26199.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26199.092843750004,"end":26199.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26199.97034375,"end":26202.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26203.092218750004,"end":26205.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26205.741593750005,"end":26209.437218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":26207.58096875,"end":26207.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26207.631593750004,"end":26208.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26209.538468750005,"end":26216.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26214.75284375,"end":26218.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26217.874718749998,"end":26222.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26223.07221875,"end":26229.07971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26229.164093749998,"end":26231.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26232.302843750003,"end":26239.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26237.770343750002,"end":26237.989718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26239.32284375,"end":26241.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26242.309718750003,"end":26246.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26246.528468750003,"end":26253.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26246.61284375,"end":26247.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26252.029718750004,"end":26252.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26254.054718749998,"end":26255.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26254.459718750004,"end":26255.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26256.38346875,"end":26265.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26265.614093750002,"end":26266.272218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26266.54221875,"end":26268.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26269.19159375,"end":26272.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26272.515968749998,"end":26273.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26276.093468749998,"end":26288.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26289.053468750004,"end":26292.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26292.445343749998,"end":26293.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26294.68971875,"end":26295.904718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26296.444718750005,"end":26297.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26298.57096875,"end":26300.359718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26300.764718750004,"end":26301.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26301.912218750003,"end":26304.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26305.624718749998,"end":26308.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":26308.17284375,"end":26309.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26309.624093750004,"end":26311.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":26311.311593750004,"end":26316.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26313.117218749998,"end":26313.404093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26337.41721875,"end":26341.281593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26341.75409375,"end":26342.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26343.30659375,"end":26346.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":26346.445343749998,"end":26347.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26355.473468750002,"end":26356.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26356.06409375,"end":26356.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26357.700968750003,"end":26363.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26364.40034375,"end":26366.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26367.47159375,"end":26367.960968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26368.41659375,"end":26375.622218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26375.90909375,"end":26376.381593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26376.73596875,"end":26377.410968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26377.88346875,"end":26379.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26379.959093750003,"end":26380.887218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26381.427218750003,"end":26383.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26383.78971875,"end":26386.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26386.827218750004,"end":26389.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26389.42596875,"end":26390.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26390.944718750005,"end":26391.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26392.328468749998,"end":26394.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26395.264718750004,"end":26403.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26403.31409375,"end":26404.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26405.03534375,"end":26408.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26409.00096875,"end":26411.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26411.46471875,"end":26413.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26413.709093750003,"end":26418.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26418.754718750002,"end":26420.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26420.374718749998,"end":26421.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26422.585343750005,"end":26424.880343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26426.601593749998,"end":26428.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26428.84596875,"end":26435.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26435.61284375,"end":26442.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26443.155968749998,"end":26463.405968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26464.047218749998,"end":26474.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26475.03284375,"end":26482.035968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26482.30596875,"end":26486.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26487.233468750004,"end":26491.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26491.536593750003,"end":26494.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26495.16471875,"end":26502.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26503.01159375,"end":26507.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26509.069718750005,"end":26514.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26515.11096875,"end":26518.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26518.890968749998,"end":26520.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26520.443468750003,"end":26523.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26524.42596875,"end":26526.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26526.450968750003,"end":26528.475968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26528.83034375,"end":26530.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26530.61909375,"end":26532.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26532.795968750004,"end":26533.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26533.825343750003,"end":26536.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26534.685968750004,"end":26536.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26536.491593750005,"end":26539.140968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26538.63471875,"end":26553.906593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26553.906593749998,"end":26557.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26555.72909375,"end":26572.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26559.71159375,"end":26562.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26567.32221875,"end":26568.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26568.030968749998,"end":26568.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26572.92471875,"end":26579.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26579.45534375,"end":26581.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26581.935968750004,"end":26594.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26594.777843750002,"end":26596.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26596.515968749998,"end":26627.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":26620.208468750003,"end":26621.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26621.22096875,"end":26622.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26626.317218750002,"end":26634.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26632.51034375,"end":26643.124718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26642.466593750003,"end":26645.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26644.609718749998,"end":26657.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26653.047218749998,"end":26655.122843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26657.215343750002,"end":26657.468468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26657.468468749998,"end":26657.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26657.48534375,"end":26657.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26657.58659375,"end":26658.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26658.34596875,"end":26667.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26667.677843750003,"end":26680.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26681.04284375,"end":26684.772218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26685.56534375,"end":26690.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26690.273468749998,"end":26692.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26691.825968750003,"end":26695.740968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26694.137843750003,"end":26700.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26700.162218750003,"end":26700.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26700.61784375,"end":26709.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26700.65159375,"end":26701.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26709.038468750005,"end":26739.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26740.39221875,"end":26754.668468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26754.584093750003,"end":26757.739718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26754.904718750004,"end":26755.225343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26758.54971875,"end":26759.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26759.93346875,"end":26763.038468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26763.257843749998,"end":26769.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26769.012218750002,"end":26769.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26769.95721875,"end":26772.539093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26771.796593749998,"end":26772.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26772.58971875,"end":26772.640343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26772.640343749998,"end":26772.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26772.67409375,"end":26772.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26772.741593750005,"end":26773.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26773.686593750004,"end":26775.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26774.47971875,"end":26775.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26775.86346875,"end":26776.859093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26777.280968749998,"end":26793.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26793.32909375,"end":26803.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26803.926593750002,"end":26805.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26805.209093750003,"end":26808.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26809.444718750005,"end":26809.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26810.490968750004,"end":26814.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26813.224718750003,"end":26814.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26814.608468750004,"end":26817.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26817.08909375,"end":26826.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26823.50159375,"end":26823.788468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26824.733468750004,"end":26825.661593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26826.58971875,"end":26827.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26827.264718750004,"end":26829.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26829.84659375,"end":26873.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26874.86909375,"end":26885.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26886.59721875,"end":26887.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26888.06534375,"end":26890.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26891.153468750003,"end":26893.364093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26893.937843749998,"end":26895.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26896.418468750002,"end":26897.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":26897.43096875,"end":26897.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26897.66721875,"end":26897.734718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":26897.734718749998,"end":26897.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26898.08909375,"end":26898.578468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26899.185968750004,"end":26901.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26902.476593749998,"end":26903.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26903.303468750004,"end":26906.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26906.999093750004,"end":26911.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26912.51721875,"end":26913.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26914.255343750003,"end":26915.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26915.622218750003,"end":26920.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26918.20409375,"end":26919.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26920.364093750002,"end":26920.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26920.380968750003,"end":26920.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26921.57909375,"end":26925.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26921.747843750003,"end":26922.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26925.359093749998,"end":26930.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26930.77596875,"end":26932.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26930.86034375,"end":26934.724718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26934.06659375,"end":26935.889093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26935.11284375,"end":26936.850968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26936.192843750003,"end":26936.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26936.850968750005,"end":26940.968468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26937.20534375,"end":26937.914093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26939.922218749998,"end":26941.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26941.980968750002,"end":26942.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26942.031593749998,"end":26942.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26942.453468749998,"end":26942.520968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26942.520968750003,"end":26943.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26942.58846875,"end":26942.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":26942.622218750003,"end":26942.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26943.11159375,"end":26944.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26945.62596875,"end":26976.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26977.09784375,"end":26977.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26978.093468749998,"end":26979.747218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26980.185968750004,"end":26980.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26982.092843750004,"end":26983.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":26983.679093750005,"end":26993.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26993.63534375,"end":26997.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26997.55034375,"end":26998.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26998.529093750003,"end":26999.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":26999.87909375,"end":27000.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27000.672218749998,"end":27003.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27004.435343750003,"end":27005.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27005.700968750003,"end":27008.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27008.991593750005,"end":27010.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27011.168468750002,"end":27012.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27012.82221875,"end":27014.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27014.84721875,"end":27017.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27017.44596875,"end":27018.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27019.38659375,"end":27020.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27020.989718750003,"end":27026.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27027.030968749998,"end":27031.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27030.45659375,"end":27032.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27031.26659375,"end":27036.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27035.367218749998,"end":27035.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27036.36284375,"end":27037.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27036.379718750002,"end":27038.185343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27038.607218750003,"end":27046.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27046.960343750005,"end":27047.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27048.023468749998,"end":27049.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27050.26784375,"end":27060.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27061.11846875,"end":27064.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27064.679093750005,"end":27073.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27073.87596875,"end":27081.030968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27081.030968749998,"end":27081.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27081.40221875,"end":27081.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27081.50346875,"end":27081.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27081.554093750005,"end":27081.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27081.58784375,"end":27081.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27081.72284375,"end":27088.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27082.54971875,"end":27083.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27088.43909375,"end":27088.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27088.86096875,"end":27088.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27088.87784375,"end":27092.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27092.25284375,"end":27097.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27096.37034375,"end":27097.146593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27097.75409375,"end":27103.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27097.85534375,"end":27097.872218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27097.905968749998,"end":27099.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27103.592843750004,"end":27109.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27104.115968750004,"end":27104.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27108.435968750004,"end":27108.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27109.077218750004,"end":27109.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27110.08971875,"end":27110.106593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27110.106593750003,"end":27110.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27110.950343750003,"end":27113.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27113.295968750004,"end":27113.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27115.05096875,"end":27117.480968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27117.953468749998,"end":27140.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27141.021593750003,"end":27142.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27141.73034375,"end":27151.163468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27146.421593749998,"end":27146.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27147.332843750002,"end":27147.771593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27151.61909375,"end":27152.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27152.68221875,"end":27154.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27154.25159375,"end":27155.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27155.584718750004,"end":27155.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27156.647843750005,"end":27158.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27159.75284375,"end":27161.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27162.14909375,"end":27164.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27163.094093749998,"end":27175.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27174.38346875,"end":27177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27177.03284375,"end":27200.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":27178.63596875,"end":27179.395343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27200.742218749998,"end":27207.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27208.16721875,"end":27208.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27208.77471875,"end":27211.879718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27210.56346875,"end":27213.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27213.61784375,"end":27235.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27235.38659375,"end":27243.216593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":27242.254718750002,"end":27255.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27244.98846875,"end":27245.781593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27248.160968750002,"end":27248.194718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27254.45534375,"end":27255.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27256.193468750003,"end":27258.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_12","start":27258.77534375,"end":27260.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":27264.833468750003,"end":27265.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":27266.655968749998,"end":27274.232843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27287.091593750003,"end":27288.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":27289.15034375,"end":27290.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":27301.013468750003,"end":27301.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27302.97096875,"end":27303.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27304.15221875,"end":27306.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27306.68346875,"end":27313.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27313.85534375,"end":27317.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27318.529718750004,"end":27323.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27323.87909375,"end":27344.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27345.006593750004,"end":27528.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27528.77534375,"end":27533.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27534.46221875,"end":27544.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27544.40159375,"end":27585.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27585.96471875,"end":27598.435343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27598.553468750004,"end":27599.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27599.75159375,"end":27615.614093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27615.88409375,"end":27619.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27619.664093749998,"end":27678.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27650.781593749998,"end":27651.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27678.86159375,"end":27678.996593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27679.36784375,"end":27708.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27709.185968750004,"end":27710.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27710.60346875,"end":27712.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27713.185343750003,"end":27734.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27734.88659375,"end":27746.007218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27746.44596875,"end":27757.380968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27757.600343750004,"end":27845.654093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27845.873468750004,"end":27883.116593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27883.45409375,"end":27889.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27889.731593750003,"end":27896.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27896.903468750003,"end":27902.421593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27902.927843750003,"end":27924.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27924.983468750004,"end":27932.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27933.25221875,"end":27948.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27948.996593750002,"end":27968.099093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27969.12846875,"end":27983.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27983.65784375,"end":27988.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":27988.92284375,"end":28004.937218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28005.27471875,"end":28029.085343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28029.25409375,"end":28094.442218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28095.285968750002,"end":28140.983468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28142.92409375,"end":28143.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28143.953468749998,"end":28148.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28148.74596875,"end":28149.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28149.640343750005,"end":28151.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28152.32346875,"end":28156.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28156.710968749998,"end":28160.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28160.507843749998,"end":28161.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28161.80721875,"end":28165.030343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28165.334093750003,"end":28171.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28165.755968750003,"end":28167.240968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28172.05034375,"end":28173.569093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28173.062843749998,"end":28174.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28174.092218750004,"end":28175.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28175.18909375,"end":28176.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28175.796593750005,"end":28178.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28177.83846875,"end":28178.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28178.935343750003,"end":28197.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28197.46409375,"end":28198.577843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28197.54846875,"end":28202.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_40","start":28202.475968750005,"end":28205.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28202.678468750004,"end":28205.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28205.34471875,"end":28205.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28208.770343750002,"end":28209.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28211.318468750003,"end":28212.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28213.46159375,"end":28217.039093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28217.207843750002,"end":28219.874093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28232.56409375,"end":28235.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28236.24284375,"end":28240.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":28240.49534375,"end":28242.030968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28251.902843750002,"end":28252.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28253.11784375,"end":28254.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28254.450968750003,"end":28254.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28254.467843750004,"end":28255.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28254.569093750004,"end":28256.020343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28257.04971875,"end":28259.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28260.272843750005,"end":28261.960343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28261.97721875,"end":28263.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28263.934718750003,"end":28268.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28268.676593750002,"end":28274.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28274.78534375,"end":28275.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28276.287218750003,"end":28285.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28285.95659375,"end":28286.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28287.22221875,"end":28288.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28288.420343750004,"end":28290.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28290.68159375,"end":28294.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28295.30534375,"end":28309.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28310.239718750003,"end":28316.601593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28316.770343750002,"end":28317.934718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28318.30596875,"end":28341.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28320.162218750003,"end":28320.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28342.724093750003,"end":28343.466593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28343.770343750002,"end":28344.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28344.14159375,"end":28347.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28347.01034375,"end":28347.246593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28347.246593750002,"end":28350.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28347.34784375,"end":28349.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28350.233468750004,"end":28359.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":28351.887218750002,"end":28351.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":28352.039093749998,"end":28352.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":28352.47784375,"end":28353.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28353.22034375,"end":28353.287843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28359.295343750004,"end":28366.973468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28360.982843750004,"end":28362.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28363.716593750003,"end":28363.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28367.614718750003,"end":28368.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28367.66534375,"end":28370.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28368.812843749998,"end":28368.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28368.981593750003,"end":28369.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28369.04909375,"end":28369.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28370.466593750003,"end":28370.483468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28370.483468750004,"end":28381.452218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28379.039093749998,"end":28379.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28380.33846875,"end":28383.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28384.67534375,"end":28393.349093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":28393.382843749998,"end":28393.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28393.93971875,"end":28395.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28396.605968750002,"end":28399.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28400.48721875,"end":28403.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28402.967843750004,"end":28403.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28403.03534375,"end":28414.746593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28414.763468750003,"end":28414.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28414.797218749998,"end":28418.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28418.020343750002,"end":28419.640343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28420.905968750005,"end":28422.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28422.998468750004,"end":28429.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28430.30534375,"end":28430.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28430.929718749998,"end":28435.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28435.317218750002,"end":28438.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28438.624718750005,"end":28441.898468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28442.01659375,"end":28445.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28446.201593750004,"end":28454.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28453.896593750003,"end":28463.582843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28454.60534375,"end":28455.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28457.20409375,"end":28457.997218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28461.55784375,"end":28462.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28463.582843750002,"end":28475.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28473.55596875,"end":28474.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28475.530343750004,"end":28479.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28477.859093750005,"end":28478.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28478.85471875,"end":28478.905343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28479.68159375,"end":28479.732218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28479.732218750003,"end":28487.224718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28479.90096875,"end":28481.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28487.359718749998,"end":28487.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28487.460968749998,"end":28489.637843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28487.49471875,"end":28487.545343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28490.177843750003,"end":28491.949718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28491.949718750002,"end":28502.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28491.966593750003,"end":28492.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28502.496593750002,"end":28504.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28504.302218750003,"end":28508.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28504.943468750003,"end":28509.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28509.61784375,"end":28512.419093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28511.86221875,"end":28513.718468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28513.718468750005,"end":28520.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28519.844093749998,"end":28520.637218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_17","start":28520.974718750003,"end":28521.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28521.02534375,"end":28522.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28521.531593749998,"end":28528.905968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28523.97846875,"end":28524.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28527.184718750003,"end":28530.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28531.15034375,"end":28532.044718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28532.31471875,"end":28532.500343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28532.500343749998,"end":28532.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28532.51721875,"end":28535.436593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28532.55096875,"end":28533.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28533.81659375,"end":28535.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28535.67284375,"end":28537.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28538.288468750005,"end":28550.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28549.59471875,"end":28552.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28551.130343750003,"end":28556.429093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28556.47971875,"end":28557.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28558.13346875,"end":28560.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28560.344093749998,"end":28561.812218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28564.78221875,"end":28567.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28568.359718749998,"end":28572.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28573.65846875,"end":28574.535968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28575.413468750005,"end":28576.037843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28576.780343750004,"end":28579.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28579.834718750004,"end":28583.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28583.86784375,"end":28584.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28584.84659375,"end":28587.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28586.75346875,"end":28588.170968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28588.609718749998,"end":28591.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28592.45721875,"end":28599.662843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28594.02659375,"end":28594.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28594.11096875,"end":28594.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28600.388468750003,"end":28602.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28602.97034375,"end":28610.226593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28607.880968750003,"end":28608.015968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28608.06659375,"end":28608.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28610.27721875,"end":28613.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28614.327218750004,"end":28619.710343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28621.11096875,"end":28622.140343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28622.629718750002,"end":28623.591593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28623.86159375,"end":28625.481593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28626.73034375,"end":28629.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28629.64971875,"end":28630.881593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28631.084093750003,"end":28632.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28632.70409375,"end":28633.632218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28634.00346875,"end":28636.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28637.125343749998,"end":28637.850968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28637.88471875,"end":28640.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28641.58034375,"end":28643.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28644.44909375,"end":28644.921593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28645.57971875,"end":28646.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28647.317843750003,"end":28648.060343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28648.262843750003,"end":28651.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28651.78971875,"end":28652.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28653.038468750005,"end":28654.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28654.97909375,"end":28660.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28661.71221875,"end":28662.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28662.99471875,"end":28666.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28666.943468750003,"end":28668.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28668.68159375,"end":28670.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28670.80784375,"end":28671.685343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28671.989093750002,"end":28674.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28675.887218750002,"end":28678.350968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28679.12721875,"end":28683.059093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28679.295968750004,"end":28680.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28680.780968750005,"end":28681.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28684.08846875,"end":28687.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":28685.37096875,"end":28685.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28685.45534375,"end":28685.944718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":28685.944718750005,"end":28686.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28687.80096875,"end":28691.327843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":28691.24346875,"end":28691.294093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_14","start":28691.327843750005,"end":28692.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28691.918468750002,"end":28692.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28692.492218749998,"end":28699.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28693.13346875,"end":28695.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28695.78284375,"end":28696.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28696.20471875,"end":28696.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28699.967843750004,"end":28700.929718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28701.57096875,"end":28702.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28703.207843750002,"end":28704.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28705.16534375,"end":28706.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28707.004718750002,"end":28708.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28709.16471875,"end":28710.075968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28710.43034375,"end":28710.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28711.83096875,"end":28712.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28712.35409375,"end":28713.366593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28714.716593750003,"end":28717.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28718.310968750004,"end":28719.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28719.64409375,"end":28720.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28720.842218750004,"end":28722.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28722.867218749998,"end":28724.132843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28724.976593749998,"end":28726.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28726.849718750003,"end":28734.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28731.827843750005,"end":28733.397218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28734.544718750003,"end":28741.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28742.054093750005,"end":28750.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28751.25096875,"end":28751.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28751.80784375,"end":28753.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28754.00159375,"end":28754.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28754.20409375,"end":28754.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28754.895968750003,"end":28755.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28755.351593749998,"end":28756.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28757.15721875,"end":28758.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28758.473468750002,"end":28761.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28761.40971875,"end":28762.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28762.03409375,"end":28770.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28762.75971875,"end":28764.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28768.176593750002,"end":28768.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28770.083468750003,"end":28773.357218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28770.944093750004,"end":28773.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28773.357218750003,"end":28773.390968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28773.61034375,"end":28781.355968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":28776.867218749998,"end":28776.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28776.88409375,"end":28778.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28779.34784375,"end":28787.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28786.536593750003,"end":28792.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28788.37596875,"end":28788.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28790.31659375,"end":28790.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28790.654093750003,"end":28798.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28796.357843750004,"end":28796.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28799.17596875,"end":28803.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28803.209093750003,"end":28803.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28803.88409375,"end":28803.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28803.91784375,"end":28803.968468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28804.20471875,"end":28807.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28805.014718750004,"end":28806.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28807.529093750003,"end":28807.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28807.88346875,"end":28809.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28809.90846875,"end":28814.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28814.177843750003,"end":28814.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28815.156593749998,"end":28815.561593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28815.949718750002,"end":28816.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28817.029718750004,"end":28818.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28818.936593750004,"end":28819.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28820.15159375,"end":28824.522218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28825.11284375,"end":28825.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28827.374093750004,"end":28827.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28828.015343750005,"end":28830.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28830.07409375,"end":28837.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28835.86221875,"end":28837.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28837.87034375,"end":28841.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28838.59596875,"end":28838.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28838.865968750004,"end":28838.984093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28839.051593750002,"end":28839.794093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28840.536593750003,"end":28840.857218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28841.160968750002,"end":28841.177843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28841.177843750003,"end":28842.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28841.24534375,"end":28847.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28848.248468750004,"end":28862.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28851.87659375,"end":28852.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28861.07346875,"end":28863.098468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28863.638468750003,"end":28864.296593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28865.528468750003,"end":28871.890343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28872.531593749998,"end":28875.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28872.86909375,"end":28872.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28872.902843750002,"end":28872.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28872.953468749998,"end":28875.164093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28875.164093749998,"end":28875.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28875.18096875,"end":28878.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28878.77534375,"end":28885.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28878.89346875,"end":28878.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28878.97784375,"end":28879.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28879.63596875,"end":28879.686593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28879.686593750004,"end":28880.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28880.02409375,"end":28881.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28883.55096875,"end":28884.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28885.20471875,"end":28887.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28885.76159375,"end":28886.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28887.702218750004,"end":28892.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28892.545343750004,"end":28894.992218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28895.481593750003,"end":28901.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28901.67471875,"end":28905.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28901.79284375,"end":28902.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28902.974093750003,"end":28910.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28908.32346875,"end":28910.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28910.97284375,"end":28923.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28913.655968750005,"end":28914.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28924.15221875,"end":28924.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28924.43909375,"end":28925.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28924.45596875,"end":28926.396593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28926.88596875,"end":28930.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":28931.442218750002,"end":28935.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28932.809093750002,"end":28934.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28935.036593750003,"end":28935.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28935.458468750003,"end":28935.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28935.96471875,"end":28936.099718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28936.099718750003,"end":28945.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28936.16721875,"end":28936.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28943.912843750004,"end":28944.773468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28945.56659375,"end":28949.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":28946.140343750005,"end":28946.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28950.544718750003,"end":28951.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28951.96221875,"end":28953.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28955.86034375,"end":28957.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28957.54784375,"end":28958.340968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28958.880968750003,"end":28960.382843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28961.59784375,"end":28962.340343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28963.420343750004,"end":28964.348468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28964.685968750004,"end":28966.677218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28966.76159375,"end":28968.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28969.46159375,"end":28972.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":28969.71471875,"end":28970.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28970.10284375,"end":28970.187218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28970.20409375,"end":28970.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":28970.474093750003,"end":28971.030968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":28972.887218750002,"end":28976.903468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":28975.16534375,"end":28976.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":28977.257843749998,"end":28984.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":28984.96971875,"end":28986.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28985.18909375,"end":28986.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28986.100343750004,"end":28989.492218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28989.660968750002,"end":28990.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28991.280968750005,"end":28992.647843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28993.035968750002,"end":28995.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":28995.87096875,"end":29000.629718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":29000.663468750005,"end":29009.303468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29002.06409375,"end":29003.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29008.223468750002,"end":29011.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29011.54784375,"end":29015.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29016.559718750003,"end":29017.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29019.46221875,"end":29020.812218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":29020.997843750003,"end":29030.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29022.75284375,"end":29024.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29027.140343750005,"end":29031.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":29030.54909375,"end":29031.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29031.865343750003,"end":29033.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29033.60346875,"end":29036.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29036.86034375,"end":29039.138468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29039.61096875,"end":29044.77471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29044.58909375,"end":29047.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29048.622218750003,"end":29053.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29053.701593750004,"end":29055.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29056.013468750003,"end":29064.248468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29064.41721875,"end":29065.615343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29065.699718750002,"end":29067.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29067.67409375,"end":29072.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29073.225968750005,"end":29076.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29077.326593750004,"end":29078.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29079.250343749998,"end":29079.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29080.499093750004,"end":29095.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_08","start":29084.717843750004,"end":29087.856593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29095.93971875,"end":29096.935343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29097.779093750003,"end":29100.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29101.154093750003,"end":29102.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29103.600968750005,"end":29107.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29108.241593750005,"end":29111.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29109.84471875,"end":29109.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29111.75159375,"end":29113.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29114.654093750003,"end":29118.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29119.14284375,"end":29134.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29135.49471875,"end":29136.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29136.03471875,"end":29136.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29136.32159375,"end":29136.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_10","start":29136.389093750004,"end":29136.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29136.42284375,"end":29136.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29136.490343750003,"end":29141.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29136.507218750005,"end":29139.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":29141.249093750004,"end":29157.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29143.020968750003,"end":29143.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29149.787843750004,"end":29151.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_42","start":29151.036593750003,"end":29151.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29151.72846875,"end":29151.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29167.000343749998,"end":29167.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29169.26159375,"end":29169.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29171.505968750003,"end":29173.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29174.256593750004,"end":29179.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29177.834093750003,"end":29178.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29179.960343750005,"end":29181.225968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29181.715343750002,"end":29191.671593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29196.54846875,"end":29198.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":29199.09659375,"end":29200.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29212.545968750004,"end":29221.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29221.32096875,"end":29225.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29225.89409375,"end":29225.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29225.96159375,"end":29231.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29231.69909375,"end":29238.465968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29239.242218749998,"end":29247.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29247.257843749998,"end":29250.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29250.24471875,"end":29251.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29252.05034375,"end":29267.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29267.45721875,"end":29273.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29275.54034375,"end":29278.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29277.22784375,"end":29277.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29278.577843750005,"end":29287.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29278.69596875,"end":29279.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29284.83846875,"end":29286.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29287.35284375,"end":29289.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29289.749093750004,"end":29292.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29292.11159375,"end":29304.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29294.389718750004,"end":29294.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29296.21221875,"end":29297.950343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29297.950343750003,"end":29298.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29298.86159375,"end":29300.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":29300.46471875,"end":29300.515343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29300.515343750005,"end":29300.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29305.91534375,"end":29310.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29310.505343750003,"end":29311.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29311.973468750002,"end":29311.990343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29312.310968750004,"end":29313.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29313.053468750004,"end":29313.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29313.96471875,"end":29314.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29314.15034375,"end":29314.200968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29314.200968750003,"end":29314.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29314.38659375,"end":29314.521593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29314.521593750003,"end":29314.639718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29314.639718750004,"end":29315.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29315.73659375,"end":29318.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29316.428468750004,"end":29316.445343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29319.077843750005,"end":29336.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29337.13409375,"end":29338.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29338.585343750005,"end":29340.576593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29340.82971875,"end":29354.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29354.34659375,"end":29358.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29358.717218750004,"end":29363.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29359.020968750003,"end":29359.375343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29364.06659375,"end":29367.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29367.74534375,"end":29370.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29370.39471875,"end":29372.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29372.92596875,"end":29374.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29373.12846875,"end":29373.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29373.51659375,"end":29379.389093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29377.65096875,"end":29381.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29379.84471875,"end":29383.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29384.29971875,"end":29400.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29385.075968750003,"end":29392.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29396.51721875,"end":29397.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29398.491593750005,"end":29399.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29399.757218750005,"end":29415.029093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29415.80534375,"end":29419.804718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29420.04096875,"end":29426.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29426.58846875,"end":29426.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29426.824718750002,"end":29431.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29426.841593750003,"end":29426.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29430.04784375,"end":29433.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29432.37659375,"end":29436.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29436.40971875,"end":29438.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29437.169093750003,"end":29443.716593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29443.02471875,"end":29448.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29448.036593750003,"end":29449.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29448.070343749998,"end":29449.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29449.57221875,"end":29449.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29449.97721875,"end":29455.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29454.904718750004,"end":29476.015343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29463.578468749998,"end":29463.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":29463.69659375,"end":29463.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29463.83159375,"end":29463.882218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":29463.882218750005,"end":29463.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29463.966593750003,"end":29464.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29468.725343750004,"end":29468.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29468.75909375,"end":29469.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29474.34471875,"end":29486.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29476.420343750004,"end":29478.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":29479.137218750002,"end":29480.402843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29486.781593749998,"end":29498.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29499.015968749998,"end":29501.834093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29502.576593750004,"end":29503.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29503.03221875,"end":29503.319093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29503.319093750004,"end":29503.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29503.36971875,"end":29503.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29503.38659375,"end":29504.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29504.365343750003,"end":29506.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29506.373468750004,"end":29512.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29506.40721875,"end":29508.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29514.10221875,"end":29515.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29515.51971875,"end":29520.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29520.26159375,"end":29523.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29524.075343750003,"end":29527.467218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29528.395343750002,"end":29533.980968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29534.301593750002,"end":29536.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29536.444718750005,"end":29543.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29543.95409375,"end":29551.497218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29553.201593750004,"end":29559.023468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29553.26909375,"end":29553.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29554.83846875,"end":29557.420343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29559.023468749998,"end":29568.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29560.154093750003,"end":29560.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29568.304718749998,"end":29569.553468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29568.43971875,"end":29571.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29570.059718750003,"end":29571.342218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29571.39284375,"end":29571.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29571.865343750003,"end":29572.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29572.810343750003,"end":29581.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29582.209718750004,"end":29583.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29585.078468749998,"end":29585.567843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29585.21346875,"end":29586.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29586.07409375,"end":29591.895968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29592.317843750003,"end":29594.241593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29594.545343750004,"end":29596.114718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29596.739093750002,"end":29602.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29602.257218750005,"end":29605.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29604.906593749998,"end":29605.395968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29605.412843750004,"end":29606.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29606.22284375,"end":29606.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29606.30721875,"end":29606.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29606.52659375,"end":29606.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29606.543468750002,"end":29606.594093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29606.594093749998,"end":29608.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29608.82159375,"end":29613.25971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29613.749093750004,"end":29615.740343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29615.757218750005,"end":29624.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29625.325343750003,"end":29632.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29633.374718750005,"end":29637.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29638.200968750003,"end":29645.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29645.406593749998,"end":29647.482218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29647.718468750005,"end":29649.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29650.047218749998,"end":29652.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29652.764093750004,"end":29659.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29659.311593750004,"end":29661.437843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29662.129718750002,"end":29664.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29662.31534375,"end":29670.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29670.02721875,"end":29671.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29672.22096875,"end":29674.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29674.65096875,"end":29677.469093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29677.68846875,"end":29678.616593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29679.20721875,"end":29680.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29680.96221875,"end":29685.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29682.413468750005,"end":29683.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29683.577843750005,"end":29684.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29686.12596875,"end":29687.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29687.982218750003,"end":29706.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29707.47284375,"end":29709.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29709.04221875,"end":29710.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29710.49346875,"end":29712.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29712.80534375,"end":29714.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29714.999093750004,"end":29722.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29717.98596875,"end":29719.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29721.78284375,"end":29727.030968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29723.436593750004,"end":29725.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29727.030968750005,"end":29727.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29727.60471875,"end":29727.638468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29727.638468750003,"end":29727.655343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29727.840968750003,"end":29727.857843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29727.857843750004,"end":29733.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29730.01784375,"end":29730.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29731.418468750002,"end":29731.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29732.56596875,"end":29736.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29734.03409375,"end":29735.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29736.194093750004,"end":29740.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29741.07096875,"end":29742.302843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29742.539093749998,"end":29750.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29751.09471875,"end":29756.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29757.051593750002,"end":29762.265968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29763.615968750004,"end":29768.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29769.319718750005,"end":29773.217843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29774.162843750004,"end":29774.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29775.05721875,"end":29777.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29777.031593749998,"end":29778.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29779.29284375,"end":29779.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29780.00159375,"end":29788.405343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29780.55846875,"end":29781.030968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29788.97909375,"end":29789.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29789.90721875,"end":29793.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29794.24409375,"end":29796.944093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29797.247843750003,"end":29798.732843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29799.20534375,"end":29799.272843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29799.272843750005,"end":29799.660968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29799.660968750002,"end":29799.762218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29799.762218750002,"end":29804.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29801.179718749998,"end":29801.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29804.67284375,"end":29807.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29804.841593750003,"end":29805.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29807.085968749998,"end":29816.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29815.067843750003,"end":29818.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29818.223468750002,"end":29818.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29818.39221875,"end":29818.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29818.662218750003,"end":29818.679093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29818.679093750005,"end":29825.547218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29820.332843750002,"end":29820.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29826.20534375,"end":29833.005968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29833.529093750003,"end":29836.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29836.465343750002,"end":29842.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29839.739093750002,"end":29846.826593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29848.15971875,"end":29848.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29849.762843750003,"end":29856.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29850.859718749998,"end":29852.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29854.87596875,"end":29855.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29857.559093750002,"end":29858.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29859.09471875,"end":29860.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29860.630343750003,"end":29863.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29863.54971875,"end":29866.772843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29867.076593750004,"end":29876.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29876.74596875,"end":29878.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29876.762843750003,"end":29877.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29879.310968750004,"end":29884.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29884.069718750005,"end":29884.575968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29884.694093750004,"end":29894.093468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29894.734718749998,"end":29900.910968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29901.450968750003,"end":29901.484718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29901.484718749998,"end":29906.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29901.889718750004,"end":29902.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29906.969093749998,"end":29907.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29907.036593750003,"end":29907.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29907.96471875,"end":29908.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29908.03221875,"end":29908.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29908.97721875,"end":29909.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29909.027843750002,"end":29916.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29909.43284375,"end":29909.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29912.014718750004,"end":29912.824718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29916.48659375,"end":29916.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29916.50346875,"end":29916.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29916.70596875,"end":29916.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29916.756593750004,"end":29918.865968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29919.35534375,"end":29921.059718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29921.76846875,"end":29925.092843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29924.535968750002,"end":29925.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29925.78471875,"end":29925.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29926.375343749998,"end":29932.652843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29931.89346875,"end":29946.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29942.01846875,"end":29942.811593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29943.959093750003,"end":29944.904093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29946.03471875,"end":29955.147218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29954.25284375,"end":29958.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29959.31534375,"end":29959.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29960.15909375,"end":29967.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29967.904718750004,"end":29970.334718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29970.82409375,"end":29971.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29971.802843750003,"end":29982.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29981.01659375,"end":29991.968468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":29985.606593750003,"end":29986.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29991.968468750005,"end":29992.255343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29992.255343750003,"end":29996.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29992.272218750004,"end":29992.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29992.44096875,"end":29993.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29995.765343750005,"end":29997.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29997.68909375,"end":29998.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":29998.094093749998,"end":29998.785968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":29999.140343750005,"end":30000.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30000.304718749998,"end":30006.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30006.85221875,"end":30008.100968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30007.18971875,"end":30008.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30008.489093750002,"end":30008.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30008.97846875,"end":30012.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30012.87659375,"end":30019.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30019.373468750004,"end":30035.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30019.40721875,"end":30020.639093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30036.147218750004,"end":30037.092218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30037.699718750002,"end":30048.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30048.12846875,"end":30050.794718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30049.140968749998,"end":30050.372843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30051.132218750005,"end":30052.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30051.756593750004,"end":30073.289093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30073.592843750004,"end":30081.507218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30079.83659375,"end":30095.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30096.340343750002,"end":30102.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30103.49534375,"end":30105.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30106.499093750004,"end":30110.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30110.498468750004,"end":30111.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30112.11846875,"end":30114.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30114.64971875,"end":30115.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30115.037843750004,"end":30115.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30115.358468750004,"end":30115.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30115.61159375,"end":30115.645343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30115.69596875,"end":30115.965968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30115.965968750003,"end":30116.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30116.03346875,"end":30116.084093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30116.084093750003,"end":30116.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_35","start":30116.15159375,"end":30116.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30116.23596875,"end":30116.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30117.41721875,"end":30123.137843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":30139.89471875,"end":30143.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":30143.286593750003,"end":30144.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30154.879718750002,"end":30155.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30155.824718750002,"end":30156.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_11","start":30156.61784375,"end":30157.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30157.59659375,"end":30163.148468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30163.570343749998,"end":30170.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30170.79284375,"end":30176.310968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30176.749718750005,"end":30184.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30184.69784375,"end":30189.051593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30189.405968750005,"end":30195.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30196.18971875,"end":30201.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30202.703468749998,"end":30206.264093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30206.61846875,"end":30209.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30209.60534375,"end":30211.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30211.39409375,"end":30211.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30212.55846875,"end":30214.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30214.380968750003,"end":30214.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30215.359718749998,"end":30216.726593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30217.317218750002,"end":30218.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30218.32971875,"end":30218.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30219.17346875,"end":30220.185968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30220.489718750003,"end":30221.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30221.755343750003,"end":30227.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30228.25221875,"end":30239.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30240.959093750003,"end":30255.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30255.97784375,"end":30259.234718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30259.420343750004,"end":30281.965343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30280.092218750004,"end":30280.109093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30281.50971875,"end":30289.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30290.099093750003,"end":30291.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30291.51659375,"end":30292.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30293.187218750005,"end":30297.912218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30296.022218750004,"end":30297.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30297.54096875,"end":30301.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30300.73034375,"end":30301.47284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30301.844093749998,"end":30317.014718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":30316.86284375,"end":30317.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30317.16659375,"end":30324.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":30317.200343750003,"end":30317.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30323.309093750002,"end":30327.780968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30327.848468750002,"end":30335.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30333.83909375,"end":30336.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30336.302843750003,"end":30345.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30339.070343749998,"end":30339.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30345.31409375,"end":30346.950968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30346.866593750005,"end":30356.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30351.25409375,"end":30353.599718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30356.51909375,"end":30360.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30357.396593750003,"end":30357.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30357.480968750002,"end":30358.054718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30361.37909375,"end":30362.172218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30362.695343749998,"end":30365.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30364.365968750004,"end":30366.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30366.30659375,"end":30366.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30366.32346875,"end":30366.812843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30366.390968749998,"end":30367.302218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30367.319093750004,"end":30369.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30369.614093750002,"end":30374.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30374.23784375,"end":30375.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30375.08159375,"end":30377.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30378.608468750004,"end":30380.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30379.654718750004,"end":30383.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30383.72159375,"end":30383.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30383.90721875,"end":30391.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30390.184718750003,"end":30392.715968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30392.513468750003,"end":30395.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30393.458468750003,"end":30406.215968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":30406.654718750004,"end":30419.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30419.850968750005,"end":30436.523468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30436.725968750005,"end":30437.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30437.38409375,"end":30438.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30438.76784375,"end":30440.489093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30440.708468750003,"end":30444.100343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30444.184718750003,"end":30445.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30445.63596875,"end":30468.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30468.72096875,"end":30473.24346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30473.530343750004,"end":30476.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30476.280968750005,"end":30478.795343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30479.318468750003,"end":30495.434093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30495.83909375,"end":30497.864093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30498.201593750004,"end":30499.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30499.905968750005,"end":30503.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30504.006593750004,"end":30504.327218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30504.49596875,"end":30505.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30506.099093750003,"end":30519.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30520.223468750002,"end":30525.319718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30525.606593750003,"end":30530.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30530.989718750003,"end":30536.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30536.170343750004,"end":30546.615968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30546.936593750004,"end":30549.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30550.15971875,"end":30556.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30556.04909375,"end":30563.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30563.575343750003,"end":30585.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30585.90096875,"end":30587.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30587.942843750003,"end":30602.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30602.77596875,"end":30606.606593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30603.265343750005,"end":30603.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":30603.50159375,"end":30603.585968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30603.585968749998,"end":30603.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30607.264718750004,"end":30612.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30612.78284375,"end":30615.600968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30615.85409375,"end":30617.490968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30617.72721875,"end":30618.537218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30618.70596875,"end":30619.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30619.24596875,"end":30622.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30622.58721875,"end":30627.902843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30628.27409375,"end":30632.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30632.93159375,"end":30636.070343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30636.492218749998,"end":30638.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30639.630968750003,"end":30641.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30642.280343750004,"end":30647.528468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30647.89971875,"end":30658.075343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30658.497218750003,"end":30666.529718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30667.20471875,"end":30669.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30669.398468749998,"end":30673.195343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30673.499093750004,"end":30678.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30679.43909375,"end":30691.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30691.36971875,"end":30692.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30692.71971875,"end":30695.554718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30695.875343749998,"end":30700.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30700.887218750002,"end":30702.152843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30702.287843750004,"end":30709.240343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30709.645343750002,"end":30715.787843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30716.108468750004,"end":30716.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30716.86784375,"end":30717.458468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30717.61034375,"end":30718.184093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30718.656593749998,"end":30720.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30720.732218750003,"end":30722.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30722.959718750004,"end":30724.832843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30724.934093750002,"end":30727.043468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30727.31346875,"end":30730.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30731.11034375,"end":30731.835968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30732.021593750003,"end":30735.295343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30735.56534375,"end":30742.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30742.43346875,"end":30759.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30760.55721875,"end":30766.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30766.514093750004,"end":30768.741593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30769.07909375,"end":30772.116593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30771.62721875,"end":30772.082843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30772.116593750005,"end":30772.656593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30772.859093750005,"end":30772.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30772.87596875,"end":30776.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30773.449718750002,"end":30774.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30776.723468750002,"end":30777.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30778.59659375,"end":30779.777843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30780.638468750003,"end":30783.709718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30784.06409375,"end":30788.890343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30789.04221875,"end":30791.590343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30791.708468750003,"end":30794.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30794.84721875,"end":30799.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30800.21346875,"end":30802.710968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30802.74471875,"end":30806.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30806.44034375,"end":30812.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30812.36346875,"end":30816.514718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30816.75096875,"end":30817.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30817.560968750004,"end":30819.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30819.450968750003,"end":30829.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30829.052843750003,"end":30829.069718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30829.069718750005,"end":30833.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30829.154093750003,"end":30829.373468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30833.00159375,"end":30833.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30833.01846875,"end":30833.474093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30833.03534375,"end":30833.676593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30833.474093750003,"end":30833.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30833.693468750003,"end":30833.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30833.794718750003,"end":30870.531593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30870.717218750004,"end":30870.953468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30871.122218750003,"end":30874.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":30874.98659375,"end":30906.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30907.25159375,"end":30939.786593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30940.15784375,"end":30949.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30950.333468750003,"end":30952.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30952.61159375,"end":30956.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30956.39159375,"end":30962.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30961.57221875,"end":30968.254718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30968.052218750003,"end":30978.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30978.88596875,"end":30978.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30978.919718750003,"end":30981.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30981.484718749998,"end":30985.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30985.264718750004,"end":30988.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30989.65221875,"end":30992.723468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30992.26784375,"end":30992.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30992.28471875,"end":30992.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30992.723468750002,"end":30997.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30996.554093750005,"end":30996.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":30996.57096875,"end":31000.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30997.262843750003,"end":30997.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30999.45659375,"end":30999.490343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30999.490343750003,"end":30999.810968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30999.810968750004,"end":30999.827843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":30999.827843750005,"end":30999.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":30999.84471875,"end":30999.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31000.72221875,"end":31000.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31000.755968750003,"end":31001.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31001.32971875,"end":31005.801593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31001.36346875,"end":31001.819093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31005.801593750002,"end":31006.544093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31006.544093750003,"end":31010.459093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31011.16784375,"end":31011.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31011.825968750003,"end":31012.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31012.60221875,"end":31013.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31013.46284375,"end":31014.255968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31015.36971875,"end":31016.365343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31017.27659375,"end":31018.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31018.94721875,"end":31022.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31022.72721875,"end":31023.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31023.04784375,"end":31024.094093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31024.397843750005,"end":31037.560343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31027.958468750003,"end":31028.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31030.084718750004,"end":31030.101593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31030.101593749998,"end":31030.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31030.45596875,"end":31030.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_23","start":31032.12659375,"end":31032.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31032.43034375,"end":31032.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31037.40846875,"end":31041.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31041.880343750003,"end":31049.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_13","start":31049.11971875,"end":31052.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31054.131593750004,"end":31054.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31055.616593750005,"end":31059.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31061.168468750002,"end":31061.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31061.53971875,"end":31061.624093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":31061.624093750004,"end":31061.640968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31065.58971875,"end":31072.913468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31084.74284375,"end":31084.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31084.75971875,"end":31084.793468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31084.793468750002,"end":31088.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":31088.01659375,"end":31089.332843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31100.959718750004,"end":31101.584093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31102.005968750003,"end":31103.170343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31103.20409375,"end":31105.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31105.583468750003,"end":31106.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31106.49471875,"end":31108.755968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31108.94159375,"end":31115.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31116.82221875,"end":31117.193468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31117.58159375,"end":31120.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31117.76721875,"end":31118.880968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31121.294093750003,"end":31125.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31125.765968749998,"end":31127.301593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31127.942843750003,"end":31128.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31128.786593750003,"end":31129.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31130.94659375,"end":31140.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31135.26659375,"end":31135.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31135.68846875,"end":31135.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31140.32909375,"end":31145.155343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31145.40846875,"end":31146.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31147.163468750005,"end":31148.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31148.547218749998,"end":31154.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31155.09471875,"end":31155.600968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31155.11159375,"end":31156.37721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31156.664093749998,"end":31160.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31160.83221875,"end":31162.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31162.114718750003,"end":31165.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31166.434718750003,"end":31172.543468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31168.00409375,"end":31168.780343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31169.05034375,"end":31170.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31172.93159375,"end":31175.412218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31175.192843750003,"end":31175.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31175.412218750003,"end":31175.429093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31175.429093750005,"end":31175.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31175.46284375,"end":31175.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31175.614718750003,"end":31175.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31175.715968750003,"end":31177.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31178.264093750004,"end":31183.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31183.81596875,"end":31185.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31186.397843750005,"end":31189.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31189.637843750003,"end":31191.460343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31191.156593749998,"end":31191.39284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31191.460343750005,"end":31191.848468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31191.848468750002,"end":31195.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31196.15159375,"end":31200.640343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31201.045343750004,"end":31202.614718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31202.98596875,"end":31204.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31205.43284375,"end":31206.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31207.069718750005,"end":31208.217218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31208.520968750003,"end":31212.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31213.22909375,"end":31215.473468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31214.27534375,"end":31214.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31215.03471875,"end":31215.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31215.52409375,"end":31227.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31227.724718750003,"end":31233.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31234.272218750004,"end":31236.179093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31236.887843750003,"end":31247.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31248.615968750004,"end":31249.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31250.55659375,"end":31260.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31261.94721875,"end":31266.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31266.419093750003,"end":31273.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31273.55721875,"end":31286.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31287.39471875,"end":31288.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31288.913468750005,"end":31289.875343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31290.499718750005,"end":31294.077218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31295.05596875,"end":31295.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31296.13596875,"end":31298.093468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31298.599718750003,"end":31299.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31299.257843749998,"end":31307.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31307.121593750002,"end":31308.809093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31308.809093750002,"end":31311.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31308.960968749998,"end":31309.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31311.30659375,"end":31311.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31312.740968750004,"end":31317.263468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31317.381593750004,"end":31318.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31318.849718750003,"end":31322.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31323.169718750003,"end":31324.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31325.380343750003,"end":31328.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31328.012843750003,"end":31331.387843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31330.62846875,"end":31331.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31331.79284375,"end":31331.809718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31331.89409375,"end":31331.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31331.97846875,"end":31331.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31331.99534375,"end":31332.467843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31332.467843750004,"end":31333.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31332.569093750004,"end":31335.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31334.475968750005,"end":31337.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31336.53471875,"end":31336.551593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":31336.551593750002,"end":31356.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31347.874718750005,"end":31348.161593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":31349.039093749998,"end":31349.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31349.967218750004,"end":31351.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_18","start":31356.86909375,"end":31358.742218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31356.902843750002,"end":31357.257218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31358.742218749998,"end":31365.374093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31365.71159375,"end":31366.622843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31366.69034375,"end":31367.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31368.07409375,"end":31369.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31369.74471875,"end":31371.33096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31371.820343749998,"end":31376.460968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31377.64221875,"end":31385.708468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31386.31596875,"end":31386.653468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31386.855968750002,"end":31387.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31387.37909375,"end":31389.623468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31388.695343749998,"end":31392.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31392.28971875,"end":31394.871593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31394.29784375,"end":31394.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31394.922218749998,"end":31399.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31399.29284375,"end":31399.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31399.562843749998,"end":31409.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31400.03534375,"end":31400.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31401.30096875,"end":31402.600343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31409.16471875,"end":31409.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31410.059093750002,"end":31412.202218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31412.624093750004,"end":31420.504718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31419.96471875,"end":31421.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31422.78284375,"end":31435.928468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31436.114093750002,"end":31439.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31439.13471875,"end":31442.29034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31442.74596875,"end":31445.209718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31445.47971875,"end":31452.820343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31449.630968750003,"end":31459.013468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31459.19909375,"end":31459.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31460.43096875,"end":31466.843468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31467.19784375,"end":31481.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31481.406593749998,"end":31490.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31489.23659375,"end":31493.286593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31492.29096875,"end":31500.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31500.84659375,"end":31502.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31503.78284375,"end":31507.849718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31508.84534375,"end":31512.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31512.304718749998,"end":31518.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31517.28284375,"end":31518.919718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31519.52721875,"end":31523.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31523.71221875,"end":31524.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31524.06659375,"end":31529.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31524.083468750003,"end":31524.218468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31529.21346875,"end":31531.069718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31531.694093750004,"end":31538.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31538.123468750004,"end":31541.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31540.958468750003,"end":31543.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31542.240968750004,"end":31544.451593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31544.333468750003,"end":31544.350343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31544.350343750004,"end":31547.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31544.451593750004,"end":31544.552843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31544.552843750003,"end":31544.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31544.974718750003,"end":31545.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31547.219093749998,"end":31554.998468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31550.62784375,"end":31551.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31554.374093750004,"end":31556.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31555.67346875,"end":31556.449718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31556.73659375,"end":31556.770343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31556.770343750002,"end":31557.293468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31556.989718750003,"end":31557.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31557.17534375,"end":31557.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31557.293468750002,"end":31557.310343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31557.310343750003,"end":31568.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":31557.36096875,"end":31557.46221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":31562.085968749998,"end":31562.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31562.10284375,"end":31562.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_15","start":31562.11971875,"end":31562.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31570.87784375,"end":31572.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31572.44721875,"end":31579.365968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31579.41659375,"end":31587.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31587.465968750003,"end":31589.912843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31588.022843750005,"end":31593.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31593.25409375,"end":31593.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31593.54096875,"end":31600.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31600.577843750005,"end":31607.192843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31607.395343750002,"end":31608.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31609.116593750005,"end":31617.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31616.03534375,"end":31626.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31626.43034375,"end":31627.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31626.46409375,"end":31626.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31627.797218749998,"end":31630.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31631.07096875,"end":31660.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31631.138468750003,"end":31633.770968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31661.310968750004,"end":31662.475343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31662.070343749998,"end":31664.179718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31664.669093750003,"end":31667.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31667.132843749998,"end":31671.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31671.334718750004,"end":31690.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31679.687843749998,"end":31679.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31679.974718750003,"end":31680.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31680.04221875,"end":31680.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31680.531593749998,"end":31680.632843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31680.632843749998,"end":31681.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31689.070343749998,"end":31697.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_29","start":31697.00159375,"end":31704.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31704.848468750002,"end":31707.109718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31707.76784375,"end":31708.577843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31708.662218750003,"end":31711.733468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31712.239718750003,"end":31712.796593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31713.23534375,"end":31715.648468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31716.357218750003,"end":31718.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31719.647843750005,"end":31719.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31719.66471875,"end":31720.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31720.137218750002,"end":31725.317843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31721.740343750003,"end":31721.757218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31721.77409375,"end":31722.719093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31724.30534375,"end":31725.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31725.58784375,"end":31736.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31737.130343750003,"end":31737.754718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31738.176593750002,"end":31750.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31738.514093750004,"end":31738.699718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31750.984718749998,"end":31751.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31752.216593750003,"end":31761.278468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31756.68846875,"end":31758.139718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31760.434718750003,"end":31762.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31761.32909375,"end":31766.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31766.982218750003,"end":31769.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31770.053468750004,"end":31771.859093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31772.027843750002,"end":31773.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31773.732218750003,"end":31774.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31775.014718750004,"end":31776.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31776.43221875,"end":31778.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31778.20409375,"end":31785.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31783.874093750004,"end":31783.890968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31783.890968749998,"end":31783.958468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":31783.958468750003,"end":31784.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31784.00909375,"end":31785.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31785.62909375,"end":31788.210968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31787.28284375,"end":31794.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31795.09596875,"end":31795.585343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31796.04096875,"end":31800.192218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31800.411593750003,"end":31802.453468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31803.01034375,"end":31803.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31804.208468750003,"end":31808.342843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31808.89971875,"end":31811.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31810.90784375,"end":31811.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31811.802218750003,"end":31820.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31814.80596875,"end":31815.818468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31821.015968749998,"end":31828.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31829.25096875,"end":31832.609093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31832.86221875,"end":31834.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31834.617218749998,"end":31836.169718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31836.304718749998,"end":31839.865343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31840.25346875,"end":31840.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31840.97909375,"end":31841.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31842.194093750004,"end":31843.122218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31843.662218750003,"end":31846.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31846.733468750004,"end":31847.374718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31847.374718750005,"end":31848.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31847.40846875,"end":31848.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31849.787843750004,"end":31851.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31851.08721875,"end":31854.006593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31853.21346875,"end":31857.989093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31859.20409375,"end":31862.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31860.537218750003,"end":31861.465343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31862.967218750004,"end":31869.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31868.08034375,"end":31870.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31869.835343750005,"end":31881.090968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31879.217843750004,"end":31879.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31881.47909375,"end":31887.554093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31887.79034375,"end":31893.764093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31894.000343749998,"end":31895.434718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31895.82284375,"end":31898.404718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31898.404718750004,"end":31898.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31898.43846875,"end":31899.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31898.47221875,"end":31898.86034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31899.80534375,"end":31900.176593750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31900.176593750002,"end":31901.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31901.84721875,"end":31910.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31908.78284375,"end":31909.187843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31910.18346875,"end":31918.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31918.418468750002,"end":31922.991593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31921.304093750005,"end":31924.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31923.379718750002,"end":31924.223468750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31924.223468750002,"end":31924.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31924.476593749998,"end":31928.037218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31928.155343750004,"end":31931.513468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31930.129718750002,"end":31934.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31933.80846875,"end":31939.326593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31938.51659375,"end":31942.499093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31943.123468750004,"end":31945.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_28","start":31945.30034375,"end":31951.797218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31950.312218750005,"end":31955.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31955.543468750002,"end":31957.028468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31957.19721875,"end":31966.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31967.01846875,"end":31983.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":31984.281593749998,"end":31992.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31992.44909375,"end":31997.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31997.71409375,"end":31998.608468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":31998.77721875,"end":32001.966593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":32002.32096875,"end":32002.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32002.35471875,"end":32002.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":32002.45596875,"end":32002.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32002.489718750003,"end":32005.358468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_22","start":32002.590968750003,"end":32003.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_34","start":32003.974718750003,"end":32003.991593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":32003.991593750005,"end":32004.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32007.18096875,"end":32007.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32009.10471875,"end":32013.981593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32016.833468750003,"end":32025.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32037.825968750003,"end":32042.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32042.71971875,"end":32045.115968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32047.29284375,"end":32047.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32052.67596875,"end":32053.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32053.82346875,"end":32054.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32054.734718749998,"end":32056.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32056.55721875,"end":32059.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32059.560968750004,"end":32066.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32066.56409375,"end":32069.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32069.63534375,"end":32070.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32071.01909375,"end":32075.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32075.406593749998,"end":32077.515968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32077.53284375,"end":32078.663468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32078.69721875,"end":32080.249718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32080.78971875,"end":32082.443468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32082.848468750002,"end":32085.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32085.78471875,"end":32088.130343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32088.248468750004,"end":32089.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32089.497218750003,"end":32090.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32090.897843750005,"end":32092.382843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32092.73721875,"end":32093.530343750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32093.88471875,"end":32094.694718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32095.38659375,"end":32096.888468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32097.25971875,"end":32098.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32098.997843750003,"end":32100.044093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32100.21284375,"end":32101.427843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32101.57971875,"end":32102.592218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32102.96346875,"end":32105.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32105.984093750005,"end":32107.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32108.24534375,"end":32108.802218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32108.920343750004,"end":32113.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32110.692218750002,"end":32111.249093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32112.919718750003,"end":32119.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32119.75409375,"end":32122.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32122.38659375,"end":32129.406593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32129.929718750005,"end":32154.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32155.529093750003,"end":32171.678468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32172.741593750005,"end":32174.749718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32175.40784375,"end":32178.209093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32178.732218750003,"end":32184.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32185.819718750005,"end":32191.506593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32192.40096875,"end":32206.137218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32206.54221875,"end":32207.942843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32207.06534375,"end":32207.200343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32207.200343750003,"end":32208.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32207.942843750003,"end":32208.482843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32208.482843750004,"end":32208.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32208.51659375,"end":32209.242218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32209.90034375,"end":32216.312843749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32216.616593750005,"end":32216.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32216.75159375,"end":32218.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32219.046593750005,"end":32219.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32219.654093750003,"end":32221.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32221.324718750002,"end":32235.41534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":32228.715968750003,"end":32229.171593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":32233.42409375,"end":32234.031593749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32234.031593749998,"end":32239.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32239.98846875,"end":32255.091593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32240.29221875,"end":32240.309093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":32240.309093750002,"end":32240.444093750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32240.444093750004,"end":32240.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_38","start":32240.49471875,"end":32240.967218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32240.967218750004,"end":32241.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32241.96284375,"end":32242.840343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32255.648468750005,"end":32256.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32256.036593750003,"end":32259.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32259.765968749998,"end":32274.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32274.75096875,"end":32281.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32282.074718750002,"end":32283.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32282.108468750004,"end":32287.474718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32288.18346875,"end":32310.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32310.779093750003,"end":32313.765968749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32314.72784375,"end":32315.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32316.63471875,"end":32336.125343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32317.529093750003,"end":32322.929093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32337.10409375,"end":32341.609718749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32340.411593750003,"end":32343.145343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32343.43221875,"end":32345.609093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32345.676593750002,"end":32351.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32352.662843750004,"end":32353.945343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32354.16471875,"end":32354.957843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32355.480968750002,"end":32359.412843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32359.80096875,"end":32360.374718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32361.33659375,"end":32361.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32361.35346875,"end":32365.825343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32367.07409375,"end":32368.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32369.28471875,"end":32372.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32372.03534375,"end":32372.575343750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32372.575343750003,"end":32378.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32372.62596875,"end":32372.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32378.920343750004,"end":32381.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32380.47284375,"end":32381.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32381.029718750004,"end":32381.114093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32381.16471875,"end":32381.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32381.19846875,"end":32381.215343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32381.62034375,"end":32381.92409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32382.295343750004,"end":32385.990968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32386.54784375,"end":32388.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32389.163468750005,"end":32398.545968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32389.60221875,"end":32390.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32390.78346875,"end":32391.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32399.170343750004,"end":32402.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32400.756593750004,"end":32415.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32414.71221875,"end":32420.61846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32419.03221875,"end":32437.577843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32428.76909375,"end":32429.039093750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32429.039093750005,"end":32429.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32429.17409375,"end":32429.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32434.202843750005,"end":32434.692218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32434.810343750003,"end":32436.312218750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32437.577843750005,"end":32444.226593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32444.226593750005,"end":32445.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32444.412218750003,"end":32450.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32445.812843749998,"end":32447.145968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32450.92596875,"end":32460.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32450.959718750004,"end":32451.600968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32461.43909375,"end":32461.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32461.96221875,"end":32462.029718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32462.029718750004,"end":32462.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32462.06346875,"end":32462.147843750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32462.468468750005,"end":32470.129718750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32470.568468750003,"end":32472.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32473.015343750005,"end":32478.162218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32477.824718750002,"end":32486.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32485.452218750004,"end":32486.262218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32486.262218750002,"end":32486.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32486.34659375,"end":32487.527843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32486.56596875,"end":32486.717843750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32487.578468749998,"end":32494.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32487.865343750003,"end":32488.084718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32488.084718750004,"end":32488.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32488.13534375,"end":32488.270343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32488.270343750002,"end":32488.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32488.33784375,"end":32488.422218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32488.422218749998,"end":32488.489718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32488.489718750003,"end":32488.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32491.780343750004,"end":32496.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32494.96971875,"end":32494.98659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32494.98659375,"end":32495.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32495.00346875,"end":32504.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32500.926593750002,"end":32501.787218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32503.20471875,"end":32503.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32503.356593750003,"end":32508.756593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32508.959093750003,"end":32510.207843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32510.528468750003,"end":32513.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32513.684093750002,"end":32517.177218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32516.569718750005,"end":32522.779718750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32523.015968749998,"end":32528.027843750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32528.63534375,"end":32529.344093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32530.44096875,"end":32530.491593750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32530.66034375,"end":32531.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32532.31409375,"end":32533.731593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32534.30534375,"end":32535.840968750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32536.060343750003,"end":32538.186593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32538.625343749998,"end":32540.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32540.481593750003,"end":32541.224093750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32540.66721875,"end":32540.684093750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32541.882218750005,"end":32556.833468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32556.968468750005,"end":32557.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32557.54221875,"end":32560.512218750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32560.562843749998,"end":32567.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32567.98784375,"end":32572.662218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32572.864718750003,"end":32588.052218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32581.015343750005,"end":32582.247218750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32588.33909375,"end":32602.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32600.489093750002,"end":32603.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32603.32409375,"end":32616.435968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32616.975968750005,"end":32625.413468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32626.375343749998,"end":32628.045968750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32628.450968750003,"end":32637.124718750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32637.529718750004,"end":32648.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32649.05534375,"end":32650.911593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32651.654093750003,"end":32651.974718750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32651.974718750003,"end":32655.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32655.95721875,"end":32661.036593750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32661.036593750003,"end":32686.247843750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32686.72034375,"end":32687.969093749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32687.969093749998,"end":32690.078468749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_37","start":32690.365343750003,"end":32690.922218749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32690.39909375,"end":32693.858468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32694.179093750005,"end":32695.090343750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32695.225343750004,"end":32709.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32708.11784375,"end":32714.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32715.00284375,"end":32717.061593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32717.601593750005,"end":32717.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32717.97284375,"end":32720.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32720.757218750005,"end":32720.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32720.79096875,"end":32721.702218750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32721.702218750004,"end":32722.748468750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32721.73596875,"end":32722.25909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32722.69784375,"end":32725.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32725.937843749998,"end":32726.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32726.15721875,"end":32734.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32733.12659375,"end":32737.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32737.952843750005,"end":32748.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32748.97221875,"end":32749.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32749.90034375,"end":32752.583468750003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32752.937843749998,"end":32756.160968750002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32756.22846875,"end":32758.000343749998},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32758.67534375,"end":32758.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32758.96221875,"end":32774.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32773.55909375001,"end":32777.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32777.13659375001,"end":32781.321593750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32781.945968750006,"end":32784.696593750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32785.15221875001,"end":32793.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32793.26909375,"end":32803.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32804.35596875001,"end":32805.975968750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32806.51596875,"end":32806.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32806.54971875,"end":32833.02659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32833.02659375001,"end":32839.523468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32839.523468750005,"end":32844.21471875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32840.82284375001,"end":32848.63596875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32848.87221875001,"end":32850.070343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32848.99034375,"end":32849.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32850.52596875001,"end":32851.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32850.86346875,"end":32852.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32852.804093750005,"end":32852.88846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32852.88846875001,"end":32852.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32852.92221875,"end":32853.09096875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32853.09096875001,"end":32853.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32853.12471875,"end":32853.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32853.17534375,"end":32853.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32853.96846875,"end":32854.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32854.03596875,"end":32854.54221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32854.74471875001,"end":32861.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32861.663468750005,"end":32863.21596875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32863.67159375,"end":32866.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32865.73034375001,"end":32903.024093750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32867.772218750004,"end":32868.008468750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32875.02846875001,"end":32876.648468750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32895.430343750006,"end":32895.73409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_19","start":32895.73409375,"end":32895.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32895.78471875,"end":32895.835343750005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32896.52721875001,"end":32896.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32896.64534375,"end":32896.76346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32896.76346875001,"end":32896.93221875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32896.93221875001,"end":32897.13471875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32903.024093750006,"end":32903.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32903.83409375,"end":32906.88846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32907.37784375,"end":32915.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32913.773468750005,"end":32915.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32915.35971875,"end":32915.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32915.39346875,"end":32915.73096875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32915.41034375,"end":32917.165343750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32917.165343750006,"end":32919.91596875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32919.35909375,"end":32920.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32921.45159375,"end":32922.66659375001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_41","start":32923.02096875,"end":32924.539718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32923.18971875,"end":32923.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32924.37096875001,"end":32926.024718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_24","start":32926.024718750006,"end":32937.837218750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32927.30721875001,"end":32930.631593750004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32936.45346875,"end":32936.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32937.88784375001,"end":32940.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32940.70596875,"end":32943.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32943.33846875001,"end":32943.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32943.929093750005,"end":32945.22846875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_16","start":32945.68409375001,"end":32956.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32961.07409375001,"end":32961.462218750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32962.94721875001,"end":32963.38596875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32964.78659375,"end":32969.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32972.75159375,"end":32981.914718750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32982.26909375,"end":32987.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32988.040343750006,"end":32989.305968750006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32989.52534375001,"end":32991.26346875001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":32991.415343750006,"end":33004.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_07","start":33004.84784375,"end":33014.56784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1724.385,"end":1733.965,"text":"主委院長 各位閣議員 早安我們現在進行國事論壇 每位委員發言三分鐘首先我們請林倩琦委員發言 洪孟凱委員請準備"},{"start":1749.54,"end":1775.092,"text":"主席 府會同仁 媒體朋友 大家好近期花蓮馬太安溪因艷澀湖潰堤導致壩體崩塌大面積的泥流流入部落與市區災情嚴重其中原住民族受災比例非常高這次讓我們再次看到原鄉地區在面對災害時所承受的結構性困擾"},{"start":1776.331,"end":1800.585,"text":"本席強調原鄉居民面臨的環境風險與撤離的困難與一般市區有極大的不同山區地形險峻交通不便通訊經常不穩定許多長輩也不習慣攜帶手機這樣子的背景下如果中央僅靠簡訊通知撤離是沒有辦法真正保障居民的生命安全"},{"start":1801.785,"end":1821.056,"text":"這次事件當中 原鄉部落受災本席請行政部門正視第一 事前各級單位是否有針對原住民族群進行充分的溝通例如撤離計畫應該透過族語 部落會議或社區管道協助預備跟傳達"},{"start":1822.717,"end":1837.675,"text":"第二 中央災防政策是否有針對長者弱勢族群研議更符合需求的撤離方式如果這些問題都沒有被回答災害的傷痛只會一次又一次地重演"},{"start":1838.396,"end":1866.456,"text":"本席認為政府必須檢視現有的預警與通報制度除了簡訊之外應該比照空襲海嘯警報設置具有聲響或廣播功能的警報設備讓居民在第一時間就能夠聽見警示對偏鄉長輩而言這樣子的設施比手機更直接更可靠能在關鍵的時刻挽救生命"},{"start":1867.276,"end":1889.701,"text":"各位同仁災害應變不該只是一套一體適用的治事流程而必須要因地制宜特別是對身處地質高風險地區的原住民族群更需要有符合在地文化與生活習慣的設計否則每一次的風災地震受害最深的往往是原鄉"},{"start":1891.121,"end":1913.692,"text":"偏鄉的居民本席在此呼籲中央應該從這次馬太安溪事件中汲取教訓徹底的檢討並改善原鄉災防與撤離設施與機制真正做到災害管理的在地化人性化唯有如此才能避免下一次悲劇的重演"},{"start":1918.66,"end":1933.932,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言包園會今天謝榮介委員進場今天是謝榮介委員過生日我們掌聲祝福他生日快樂接下來我們請登記第二位也是本日國師論壇最後一位洪孟凱委員請發言"},{"start":1945.936,"end":1963.448,"text":"主席、各位政府官員以及各位立院同仁上禮拜本席有榮幸陪同韓國瑜院長以首次院長名義跨黨派的組成國會參訪團前往日本做進一步的國會交流以及參觀大阪萬國博覽會台灣館"},{"start":1965.427,"end":1992.628,"text":"其實我們看到在這一次台灣軟硬實力的展現在台灣館展露無遺看到許多的遊客願意排隊三個小時四個小時就是為了要一睹台灣館裡面的風采我們感到非常的驕傲尤其館內的設施不管是看到翩翩起舞的蝴蝶栩栩如生的在我們面前或者是神木高聳還是蘭花的噴印技術其實在在展現台灣的軟實力"},{"start":1993.849,"end":2011.722,"text":"看到陳承波的畫作可以有嘉義公園跟現代的101利用AI科技相互運用結合這更是讓人家驚豔台灣的半導體跟台灣的晶片都是我們的硬實力而透過統計每人每天"},{"start":2012.382,"end":2040.588,"text":"一天裡面會接觸到至少上百顆的晶片大多數都是Made in Taiwan所以我們要說這樣子的一個堅強的軟硬實力的展現絕對呼籲我們行政部門現在規劃完善的規劃要讓10月13號的試博結束之後台灣館的內容可以帶回給台灣國人都看見讓台灣國人也一起感受到我們共同過去現在以及未來我們一起打拚的驕傲"},{"start":2041.858,"end":2063.638,"text":"這段時間日本的政要以及華僑們也都表現對於花蓮風災台灣的關心但我們要說花蓮的風災其實都是大家不願意看到的一個狀況左院長您利用這次會期的施政報告也宣誓全力協助災區復原但展開必要的究責檢討"},{"start":2064.779,"end":2085.329,"text":"花蓮光復鄉搶救災害已經10天了現在眾話說要究責我們不希望看到的是大罷免的餘恨未消只想槍口對地方政府如果說只想要利用球員兼裁判來司法撩其他彎根本是沒有辦法對花蓮的災民公平交代"},{"start":2086.345,"end":2104.936,"text":"要釐清責任要記取教訓就是不要再讓這樣的悲劇再次發生跟重演這才是天災或者是相關的災害給予我們國人所留下的深刻的意義我們更要說在這一次情況裡面還看到有執政黨的黨團裡面在講"},{"start":2107.217,"end":2129.454,"text":"說要透過第三方巨殺傷力的消息這樣子一個狀況難道一場災害在民進黨政府眼裡都變成了反攻以及吹起號角的機會嗎這絕對不是國人所願意看到的請執政黨好好的面對國人我們一起共同不分黨派全力救災天佑花蓮 天佑台灣 天佑中華民國謝謝"},{"start":2134.938,"end":2141.227,"text":"謝謝洪孟凱委員的發言包園會我們登記國事論壇發言的委員均已經發言完畢現在休息"},{"start":5354.232,"end":5362.318,"text":"報告院會我們現在開始開會請秘書長報告出席人數報告院會出席委員75人已足法定人數"},{"start":5365.044,"end":5392.151,"text":"報應會下週一是中秋節今天特別準備月餅送給各位委員的辦公室感謝每位委員及本院同仁堅守崗位協助議事及任務順利推動那對各位由衷的感謝也祝福大家祝福大家所有委員同仁秘書所有新聞界好朋友大家中秋佳節快樂謝謝好謝謝報應會我們現在進行報告四項請Misa宣讀第四會期第二次會議意思錄"},{"start":5395.103,"end":5415.618,"text":"宣讀立法院第十一屆第四會議及第二次會議議事錄時間 中華民國一百十四年九月三十日上午九時至十一時二十分下午二時三十分至四時三十四分地點 本院議場出席委員 陳委員 昭芝等一百十二人請假委員 丁委員 學中"},{"start":5416.638,"end":5430.987,"text":"列席官員行政院院長卓榮泰等三十八人主席院長韓國瑜副院長江啟臣報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第四會期第一次會議事務決定確定"},{"start":5432.895,"end":5439.258,"text":"第2至12、14、16、17、19至23、25、26、28、30至46案均決定交付相關委員會審查第13、15、18、24案均決定經獲讀與相關提案並按協商第27案決定"},{"start":5454.687,"end":5472.762,"text":"經獲讀與相關提案並按協商或交互相關委員會審查第29案決定定期舉行會議邀請行政院長等類席報告115年度施政計畫及115年度中央政府總預算案編制經過並備諮詢第49案為交通委員會"},{"start":5478.467,"end":5485.506,"text":"等所提出報告案執行事項獎行政委員大部分八件以北院執行部分兩件"},{"start":5487.368,"end":5515.304,"text":"討論事項第一案之三案均決議不一案不通過同意全職行使事項決議陳瑞民獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一之同意票依法同意續任審計部審計長行政院長施政報告並答覆質詢決定下次會議十月七日繼續進行施政報告之實行其他事項"},{"start":5516.974,"end":5533.202,"text":"本次會議議事日程照原編擬議程查案通過宣讀完畢抱怨會針對第四會期第二會議的議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或遺漏之處我們先來做以下決定第四會期第二次會議議事錄確定請宣讀第二案"},{"start":5533.769,"end":5549.76,"text":"第二案本月五元羅廷維等十八人離聚職業安全衛生法部份條文修憲草案財修委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢第三案本月五元蔥夏冰等十六人離聚公民同票法第七條條文修憲草案"},{"start":5550.32,"end":5578.391,"text":"財修委員會間交內政委員會審查宣讀完畢第四案本院委員王玉明等20人離聚沿海防治法部分條文修正草案財修委員會間交社會福利及優勝環境委員會審查宣讀完畢第五案本院台灣民眾黨黨團離聚發展觀光條例第11條條文修正草案財修委員會間交交通委員會審查宣讀完畢報告委員會針對第五案現有台灣民眾黨團提出禁服二讀由台灣民眾黨團負責召集協商請委員會有異議"},{"start":5579.671,"end":5603.109,"text":"沒有異議本案禁負二讀由臺灣民眾黨團負責召集協商下案第六案本院臺灣民眾黨團提據國家公約法第十三條條文修正常案財修委員會建交內政委員會審查宣言完畢報告院院會報告事項第六案臺灣民眾黨團提議禁負二讀由臺灣民眾黨團負責召集協商請問院會有異議沒有異議本案禁負二讀由民眾黨團臺灣民眾黨團負責召集協商下案"},{"start":5606.4,"end":5625.229,"text":"第七案 本院臺灣民眾黨團領據《地質法》第五條條文修正常案陳修委員會建交經濟委員會審查宣讀完畢報告 院會報告事項第七案臺灣民眾黨團提議禁服二讀由臺灣民眾黨團負責召集協商請院會有異議沒有異議本案禁服二讀由臺灣民眾黨團負責召集協商下議案"},{"start":5625.677,"end":5645.399,"text":"第八案 援助民族委員會涵送財團法人援助民族文化事業基金會及財團法人援助民族語言研究發展基金會一百十五年度預算書案陳書援會監交內政委員會審查宣讀完畢第九案 國防部涵送財團法人國防安全研究院一百十五年度預算書案陳書援會監交外交暨國防委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":5646.32,"end":5666.244,"text":"第十案 外交部韓送財團法人國際合作發展基金會財團法人臺灣民主基金會及財團法人太平洋經濟合作理事會中華民國委員會一百十五年度預算書案陳書瑩會計較外交及國防委員會審查宣讀完畢第十一案 國軍退出官兵輔導委員會韓送財團法人榮銘榮炫基金會一百十五年度預算書案陳書瑩會計較外交及國防委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":5669.585,"end":5693.735,"text":"第一宣案 農業部函宋財團法人中華民國對外漁業合作發展協會等21項財團法人115年度預算書案陳修揚會建交經濟委員會審查 宣讀完畢第一宣案 行政院函宋財團法人工業技術研究院115年度預算書案陳修揚會建交經濟委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二宣案 行政院函宋財團法人中華經濟研究院115年度預算書案陳修揚會建交經濟委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":5695.856,"end":5713.387,"text":"第十五案 行政委員含重財政法人國家衛生研究院一百十五年度工作計畫及收支預算案 申請委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣傳並第十六案 核能安全委員會含重國家原子能科技研究院一百十五年度預算書案 申請委員會建交教育界文化委員會審查 宣傳並"},{"start":5714.508,"end":5739.081,"text":"第十七案 教育部韓送國家運動訓練中心及國家運動和學習中心115年度預算書案 程序委員會兼教教育及網化委員會審查 宣言完畢第十八案 交通部韓送財政法人台灣郵政協會等六家財政法人115年度預算書案 程序委員會兼交交通委員會審查 宣言完畢第十九案 數位發展部韓送國家自動安全研究院115年度預算書案 程序委員會兼交交通委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5739.961,"end":5757.546,"text":"第二十一案 書院發展部涵送財團法人電信技術中心及財團法人臺灣網路資訊中心一百十五年度預算書案陳書永會見交交通委員會審查 宣布完畢第二十一案 司法院涵送財團法人法律輔助基金會一百十五年度預算書案陳書永會見交司法及法治委員會審查 宣布完畢"},{"start":5758.286,"end":5782.237,"text":"第二十二案 法務部函送財政法人臺灣更宣保護會財政法人福建更宣保護會及財政法人犯罪被害人保護協會一百十五年度算數案財修委員會間交司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢第二十三案 衛生福利部函送財政法人醫院評鑑及醫療品質測試會等九項財政法人一百十五年度算數案財修委員會間交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":5783.177,"end":5804.148,"text":"第二十四案 勞動部含送財政法人職業災害預防及重建中心一百十五年度預算書案財政委員會監交社會福利及國際環境委員會審查宣傳完畢第二十五案 行政院主席總書含送一百十五年度中央政府總書案優先順序總票及各主管機關概算計畫優先順序排列表財政委員會監交財政委員會宣傳完畢"},{"start":5805.328,"end":5807.469,"text":"抱怨會本案由國民黨團體議改交審查本案交財政及經濟兩委員會審查"},{"start":5830.58,"end":5855.922,"text":"第二十七案行政委函送公告中華民國一百十四年丹納斯颱風風災災區範圍新增江義市東區全區及西區全區病治一百十四年七月五日生效陳修援會監交內政委員會宣言完畢第二十八案行政委函送公告中華民國一百十四年丹納斯颱風風災災區範圍新增雲林縣全區病治一百十四年七月五日生效陳修援會監交內政委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":5856.883,"end":5885.875,"text":"第二選九案 行政委員會修正中央對直銷稅及縣市政府補助頒發財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣言完畢法院委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查 下一項第三選案 行政委員會本院通過有關幹預主席總署應立即將一般性補助款足以撥付與地方政府決議之說明財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣言完畢法院委員會本案由臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查本案交財政委員會審查 下一項"},{"start":5886.311,"end":5915.128,"text":"第三十一案 行政委員會中華民國一百十四年一月二十四日制定公佈之《國家運動產業發展中心事實條例》訂自一百十四年十一日實行程序委員會建交司法及法治教育及文化兩務委員會宣傳完畢第三十二案 內政部還會修正自建自購住宅貸款利息及租金補貼辦法部分條文程序委員會建交內政委員會宣傳完畢第三十三案 內政部還會修正修善住宅貸款利息及檢疫修善住宅費用補貼辦法部分條文"},{"start":5915.808,"end":5924.175,"text":"第34案 內政部海維修正居住台灣地區之人民受歧視申訴辦法第3條及第5條條文第35案 內政部海維修正國土次會成果資料收費標準第36案 內政部海維修正住宅補貼對象一定所得及裁選標準第5條附表1及第6條附表2"},{"start":5945.413,"end":5961.067,"text":"第37案國防部含送軍事營區安全維護條例第3條第4項鎖定不利管制軍事機關裁修委員會監教外交及國防委員會宣布完畢第38案國防部含送重要軍事設施種類裁修委員會監教外交及國防委員會宣布完畢"},{"start":5962.208,"end":5976.486,"text":"第39案 國防部含送軍事警官執行軍事營區安全勤務事件補償辦法 撤出委員會 建交外交及國防委員會 宣讀完畢第40案 國防部含送軍事演習訓練場域通報辦法 撤出委員會 建交外交及國防委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":5978.635,"end":5995.884,"text":"第41案 國防部函送軍事情報辦理 軍事營區安全維護條例第6條 第一項許可實施判法 財修委員會監交報告再提及國防委員會 宣傳完畢第42案 國防部函送軍事營區安全檢查強制具體實施判法 財修委員會監交報告再提及國防委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":5997.225,"end":6024.035,"text":"第四十三案國防部含送軍事機關執行軍事營區安全勤務配備武器及器械種類採取委員會監交及國防委員會宣言完畢第四十四案國防部含送軍事機關武器或器械使用調查小組組織及運作辦法採取委員會監交及國防委員會宣言完畢第四十五案國防部含送軍事營區安全管束實施辦法採取委員會監交及國防委員會宣言完畢"},{"start":6024.955,"end":6040.184,"text":"第四十二案 國防部含送軍人權益事件附審 控署在途 期間辦法 陳修永會兼交外交及國防委員會 宣傳完畢第四十七案 國防部含送軍人權責辦法 陳修永會兼交外交及國防委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6041.425,"end":6060.843,"text":"第四十八案 國防部還送軍人危機罰款分期繳納辦法 前巡員會監交外交及國防委員會 宣傳並第四十九案 國防部還送官兵權益保障會監任委員領兵辦法 前巡員會監交外交及國防委員會 宣傳並第五十案 國防部還會修正《陸海空軍懲罰法》施行息則"},{"start":6061.443,"end":6067.227,"text":"第五十案 國防部函為回國時設置辦法名稱修正委 回國執行辦法並修正條文第五十案 農業部函送植物診療師法師希西澤"},{"start":6082.058,"end":6101.447,"text":"第五十三案 農業部函送植物診療是職業登記及繼續教育辦法 財區委員會見交經濟委員會 宣言完畢第五十四案 農業部函送植物診療機構開業登記及管理辦法 財區委員會見交經濟委員會 宣言完畢第五十五案 經濟部函送經濟部擔當式颱風與728河雨災禍商交援助與社變態換擊產業設施復原辦法 財區委員會見交經濟委員會 宣言完畢"},{"start":6108.49,"end":6130.601,"text":"第五十六案 財政部海外修正稅務違章案件 減免處罰標準部分條文財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣傳完畢五十七案 財政部海外送財政部因應國際情勢強化出口廠商金融支持措施辦法財政委員會建交財政委員會 宣傳完畢外匯匯本案由臺灣民眾黨團體改作審查本案交財政委員會審查 下一案"},{"start":6131.109,"end":6157.275,"text":"第五十八案 教育部函宋國家運動產業發展中心董事監事及執行長違反利益 迴避 處置準則 採訊委員會兼教教育及文化委員會 宣讀完畢第五十九案 教育部函宋國家運動訓練中心董事監事利益迴避範圍及違反處置準則 名稱修正為國家運動訓練中心董事監事及執行長違反利益 迴避 處置準則 並修正條文教育委員會兼教教育及文化委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6158.135,"end":6180.179,"text":"第六十一案 教育部函宋國家運動產業發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有財政管理使用收益辦法 產業運動發展中心公有�"},{"start":6183.74,"end":6200.815,"text":"第六十三案 教育部海文修正國家運動科學中心公有財政公立使用 收益辦法部分條文 程序委員會兼交交集文化委員會宣傳並第六十四案 交通部海文修正航路標示設置技術規範第十點規定 程序委員會兼交交通委員會宣傳並"},{"start":6202.156,"end":6226.403,"text":"第六十二案 交通部函宋外面刷單場域禁止施生 財修委員會兼交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第六十六案 財政院公共工程委員會還未修正 財國經合小組組織選擇 財修委員會兼交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第六十七案 金融監督管理委員會還未修正 金融監督管理委員會銀行局處規審第五條基地七條條文 財修委員會兼交司法及法治財政兩委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6228.584,"end":6254.795,"text":"第六十八案 法務部函文修正檢查機關處理涉及國家機密案件保密作業頒發第十六條及第二十五條條文財修委員會建交司法及法治委員會宣讀完畢第六十九案 密法務部函宋與美國推動洽簽之合作了解備忘錄英文 日本及中日本影本財修委員會建交司法及法治外交及國防兩委員會宣讀完畢第七十案 勞動部函宋因應國際情勢支持勞工安定作業頒發"},{"start":6255.815,"end":6278.93,"text":"陳修永會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢報應會本案由國民黨團 臺灣民眾黨團提議改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查報應會第七十一案至一百五十六案請依序宣讀其中一百一十三 一百一十六 一百二十一 一百二十三案臺灣民眾黨團提議改交審查"},{"start":6280.888,"end":6286.781,"text":"宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查區議案均照程序委員會意見通過請問院會沒有異議我們請宣讀"},{"start":6291.57,"end":6319.065,"text":"第七案 領契案 農業部第10方案 領契案 行政院主席總署第113案 領契案 財政部第143案 領契案 金融監督管理委員會第154案 交通部第155案 大陸委員會第156案 國家通訊傳播委員會含為114年度中央政府準算中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第五期特別預算114年度中央政府準算追加預算等預算決議分別簡訊相關報告宣讀完畢"},{"start":6321.344,"end":6346.559,"text":"請宣讀質詢事項質詢事項 行政院答覆部分行政院函送本院羅委員聚強等所提質詢之書面答覆共三件宣讀完畢拜會 我們現在進行中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案編制經過並備質詢首先 我們請行政院卓院長報告"},{"start":6364.531,"end":6367.179,"text":"韓院長 江副院長 各位委員先進"},{"start":6368.772,"end":6394.457,"text":"今天應大院的安排針對因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案到大院進行報告並備諮詢首先要感謝大院在8月29日三讀了通過這個強化任性的特別條例依照這個特別條例我們今天"},{"start":6395.854,"end":6421.375,"text":"編定了這個樣的特別預算在各項的預算編制過程我們是以支持產業安定就業照顧民生及弱勢以及強化國土安全韌性為主要的內容來廣泛地針對目前的國際情勢帶給國家的衝擊做全面性的思考同時其中更包括了"},{"start":6422.336,"end":6446.545,"text":"國人現在很關心的普發現金的相關作業今天特別預算通過之後我們就會一併的加速來啟動各項的知識產業安定就業照顧民生弱勢以及國土安全的各項作業行政院也在9月11日將本預算案送到立法院送到大院來進行審議所以今天我們來這裡做這樣的報告"},{"start":6448.43,"end":6473.185,"text":"自从4月2号美国政府启动了对等关税全球新的措施以后全球都进入到一个关税新秩序重整的时代那么目前在暂时暂缓实施90日的期限结束后为达成最后协议之前我国适用的是以暂时性对等关税的税率"},{"start":6474.133,"end":6502.114,"text":"原最惠國待遇的稅率再加增20%為目前的暫時稅率並且這個已經在今年的8月7號開始生效那麼在美方提出這樣新的關稅政策之後4月4號政府已經提出了支持產業880億的協助方案那麼5月1號開始我國又與美國進行了多次的雙邊談判"},{"start":6503.755,"end":6532.157,"text":"其中已經進行了五輪的實體的談判以及十次的線上磋商雖然目前尚未進入到最後的總結階段不過政府一直秉持的維護國家利益維護產業利益也守護產業的安全國民的健康確保糧食安全這四大原則作為整個談判的基礎現在我們要做的有三項的爭取就是爭取"},{"start":6533.564,"end":6560.049,"text":"合理的對等關稅稅率爭取在最惠國待遇稅率上面不再疊加的一個最後的結論同時也爭取並同232條款磋商之後合理的一個待遇這三項爭取是攸關我國未來在產業結構上以及關鍵戰略地位能夠繼續在國際上佔的領先地位而且強化國內產業重要的關鍵"},{"start":6564.03,"end":6570.988,"text":"這種關稅的新的變革之後全球的貿易秩序都進行一個全面性的重整那我國我在上次的"},{"start":6571.949,"end":6599.605,"text":"施政報告當中我也提到過我們要做一個產業佈局的重建這也是我的三項重建當中然而這三項重建都需要與大院共同來推動才有辦法來完成因為地緣政治的關係加上這種國際情勢變化美國關稅的變革讓我們在面對所有新的挑戰過程當中必須要有特別條例特別預算來做全面的因應"},{"start":6600.566,"end":6625.588,"text":"因此为了提供产业在支持提升竞争力以及因应美国关税变革并减缓社会经济波动对劳工就业对民生人民的生计与弱势族群造成的影响同时为了要强化国土安全任性政府以支持产业安定就业照顾民生强化任性四大主轴为理念"},{"start":6626.369,"end":6645.11,"text":"及時地想要減輕企業跟民眾的負擔穩定民生物價以及減緩市場的波動同時在普發現金的作業能夠更迅速周全因此因應地方政治的急速變化也要同時做好安全的準備"},{"start":6646.431,"end":6673.038,"text":"因為美台之間的關稅談判還沒有進到最後我們現在為了因應未來可能在談判過程當中產生的最後 最終結果我們已經在這個特別預算當中預留200億當作一個預算的額度那我要向大院表示這200億的預算我們說預留之所用未來當常是當用則用 當用才用這個請大家能夠支持"},{"start":6674.025,"end":6688.636,"text":"那行政院依照本特別條例所規定編制的這項特別預算共稅數編制5500億那裁員至於一用以前年度稅計剩餘4444億再加上舉債1056億來支應實行的期間是從今年的3月12日一直到112年的12月31日"},{"start":6701.062,"end":6726.286,"text":"其中有四大部分是在特別預算裡面要呈現出來的第一個是支持產業的780億第二個是安定就業的180億第三是照顧民生與弱勢的3070億我特別說明這其中有包括勞保基金健保基金補益助的300億有包括照顧弱勢族群跟提供關懷服務的210億以及"},{"start":6729.787,"end":6758.327,"text":"普發現金的2360億第四大項是強化韌性的1500億以上的說明是緊究預算的編制重點概要來說明有關於特別預算的編制經過及內容隨後請總署陳主席長來做詳細報告至於裁員籌措部分則由財政部莊部長來做詳細的報告我太特別強調"},{"start":6759.915,"end":6768.58,"text":"關於普發現金的部分我們現在相關的先期作業跟各項系統的修改都已經同步進行完畢"},{"start":6769.659,"end":6791.828,"text":"但是某部分的國人很強烈的要求儘快的發放也可能產生了一些現在的一個誤解認為行政院是現在是可以發而不發其實我們必須要等到今天向大院進行特別預算報告之後大院審理審議完整個特別預算三讀通過"},{"start":6792.788,"end":6808.713,"text":"我們才能夠行政院依照我們所現在擬定的各種先期作業跟各項系統的修改足以的發放而且依照特別條例當中所列我們可以在大院通過特別預算之後的一個月內"},{"start":6809.853,"end":6833.946,"text":"一個月內來發放七個月內來完成但是因為我們先期的作業已經進到相當成熟的而且是我們沿用112年發放的程序所以我現在要求的是財政部儘快的發放所以也請大院能夠儘速的完成那麼發放的結果我們會讓全國2357萬的國人同胞以及取得"},{"start":6834.542,"end":6840.658,"text":"永久居留資格的外籍人士依照慣例都能夠領取期待這樣用減輕對企業的"},{"start":6842.469,"end":6866.26,"text":"負擔減輕對勞工的衝擊也照顧廣大民生的生計之所需要對所有的國人做進一步的有效的全面性的照顧當然我們不會放棄我們的責任所在的重要一點就是在國土防衛跟資通安全上面的強化這一併會在這個特別預算當中的執行讓我們全面的提升期待能夠將這種國際的變局"},{"start":6868.741,"end":6888.369,"text":"給我們的衝擊帶來一個轉機帶來一個新的發展方向所以最後懇請大院各位委員能夠鼎力的支持早日通過本特別預算案我們將依照特別條例特別預算所有的規定謹慎的實施讓全民能夠享受到自己努力的經濟實力謝謝大家感謝各位"},{"start":6895.044,"end":6899.428,"text":"謝謝卓院長的報告我們接下來請主計總署陳主計長請報告"},{"start":6910.399,"end":6924.865,"text":"院長 各位委員先進 大家好有關本特別預算案編制的概況和計畫重點所謂院長已經做了說明我請就本特別預算案的編制經過和內容做進一步提出報告"},{"start":6925.905,"end":6950.828,"text":"那本為因應美國關稅的一個變革提升產業的一個競爭韌性和地緣政治急速變化強化國土防衛的一個能量行政院他擬據因應國際形勢強化經濟社會和國際安全韌性特別條例草案在今年4月24送請貴院來審議那大院於7月11審議修正通過修正名稱為"},{"start":6952.029,"end":6970.701,"text":"因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別條例因為美國在7月31日宣布台灣輸美商品加徵20%暫時性關稅並至8月7日生效所以行政院就上該的條例"},{"start":6972.262,"end":7000.749,"text":"第三第六和第九條的一個修正草案並在八月十四送大院來審議那經大院八月二十九一審議修正通過那刪除第三條有關強化電力系統項目的一個相關的一個項目那上限金額限定是五千七百億元那這個整個條例的部分呢可以分年編列預算那經費來源是已用以前年度稅基剩餘或舉債"},{"start":7002.129,"end":7020.242,"text":"舉借債務來支應那每一年舉借債務可以不受公共債務法15%流量一個規定的限制那原則我們除了預留200億元站位編列本特別預算依照條例規定編列5500億元實施期程從"},{"start":7021.603,"end":7043.827,"text":"今年3月12到116年12月31日子提經我們9月11號行政院3969次會議的一個通過並送請大院來審議那本特別預算的一個編列的一個說出的一個內容那我們說明如下第一個機關別編列情形"},{"start":7044.568,"end":7058.323,"text":"內政部編列112億餘元主要是辦理老宅延壽機能復興計畫50億元加強環恐維安能量及關鍵基礎設施防護效能34億餘元等"},{"start":7059.184,"end":7079.325,"text":"那第二個國防部主管編列1131億餘元是辦理居民之通作業環境韌性和設備效能提升計畫563億餘元還有重要防護設施改善計畫428億餘元還有作戰區之通基礎設施提升計畫107億元等"},{"start":7080.086,"end":7108.358,"text":"那三財政部的編列2500億元主要是辦理企業融資利息減碼還有輸出保險費用的減免140億元及強化民眾消費韌性普發現金的相關及相關的作業費用2360億元那教育部主管編列200億元是補助大專院校校務的經營和支持高價和產業合作共賠人才各100億元"},{"start":7109.658,"end":7136.02,"text":"那五經濟部主管編列460億元主要是協助美國受美國關稅政策影響的製造業他調整體質還有提升產業的競爭力是203億餘元針對美國受美國關稅影響的業者提供融資保證和中小企業中小微企業的利息減免110億元還有補助廠商和工協會"},{"start":7137.621,"end":7160.842,"text":"參展拓銷補助企業部件海外通路和共同品牌海外行銷等70億元等第六個是勞動部主管編列250億元主要是撥補勞工保險基金100億元辦理政府部門公共服務上工專案等37億餘元還有失業青年訓練獎勵計畫15億元"},{"start":7163.684,"end":7186.806,"text":"還有支援青年就業計畫15億元勞工就業通計畫15億元等那農業部主管編列190億元主要是辦理強化農業外銷冷凍體系50億元獎勵業者拓展美國高端外銷市場44億元還有拓展農業金融支持措施24億元等"},{"start":7187.426,"end":7211.711,"text":"那衛生福利部編列360億元主要是撥補全民健康保險200億元還有強化獨居老人關懷服務計劃62億餘元強化低收入與中低收入或生活補助61億餘元等那海洋委員會主管編列295億餘元是提升海域立體徵詢量能148億餘元還有辦理各級巡防艦"},{"start":7213.957,"end":7226.521,"text":"艦艇籌建還有海巡基地設施的一個強化119億餘元等那在以正式別編列方面我們主要是經濟發展支出有3191億元居首佔稅數總額58%國防支出是1131億餘元那佔稅數20.6%"},{"start":7236.195,"end":7243.057,"text":"那社會福利支出610億元 佔稅數總額11.1%一般政務支出350億元 佔稅數總額6.4%教育科學文化支出是216億5000萬元 佔稅數總額3.9%以上所需要的財源5500億那我們是以"},{"start":7256.98,"end":7273.204,"text":"已用以前年度設計剩以4,441億元還有舉借債務1,056億元來支應那分年度的一個辦理的編列情形114年度到116年度分配如下第一個114年度是2,795億餘元那115是1,241億餘元116是1,463億餘元"},{"start":7281.846,"end":7295.524,"text":"以上的特別預算是因應國際情勢給予產業和國人支持所需敬請各位委員 女士 先生會議指教並鼎力支持祝福大家健康快樂 萬事如意謝謝謝謝陳主席長的報告接下來我們請財政部莊部長報告"},{"start":7309.434,"end":7311.686,"text":"主席 各位委員先進 大家好"},{"start":7314.264,"end":7339.716,"text":"任性特別預算案的收入編列情形做以下的報告首先是裁員的規劃部分那麼依照因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別條例的第六條規定經費上限是新台幣五千七百億元那麼得失國際情勢的變化分期編列特別預算所需經費來源得以"},{"start":7340.376,"end":7358.675,"text":"移用以前年度的稅基剩餘或者是舉借債務來支應為了及時因應美國關稅措施所可能產生的一些變化帶來的衝擊那麼我們預留了後續編列特別預算的額度200億元所以呢第一階段強化韌性特別預算案的"},{"start":7359.876,"end":7377.955,"text":"總經費是編列五千五百億元從一百一十四年的三月十二日起到一百一十六年的十二月三十一日分三年來辦理那麼財源規劃是一用以前年度的稅計剩餘四千四百四十四億元還有舉借債務一千零五十六億元"},{"start":7379.807,"end":7401.42,"text":"第二個我們要報告是債務的管控部分有關債務管控部分根據本特別條例的規定每年度的債務舉借數是不受公債法第五條第七項規定的限制但是必須管控本特別條例施行期間中央政府總預算及特別預算舉債的額度和計數不能超過該期間"},{"start":7403.521,"end":7418.285,"text":"總預算及特別預算稅出總額合計數的15%而且中央政府所舉借的長期債務的預算數應該要符合公債法第五條第一項的規定不能超過前三年度明目GDP平均數的40.6%"},{"start":7420.806,"end":7447.798,"text":"那麼考量本特別條例從114年度推動執行那麼我們並記了114年度中央政府總預算以及前瞻基礎建設計畫新式戰機採購還有海空戰力提升計畫採購以及疫後強化經濟及社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果以及丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建以及強化韌性等特別預算案的舉借和計數在該期間說出總預算"},{"start":7450.399,"end":7459.244,"text":"合計數的是8.1%低於15%規定的上限那麼截至114年9月底中央政府長期債務的餘額實際數是5兆8379億元佔前三年度明目GDP的平均數24.3%至於114年底長期債務的餘額的預算數那麼是根據公債法第五條的規定以113年底中央政府長期債務餘額的實際數5兆"},{"start":7482.615,"end":7497.998,"text":"8580億元連同歷年特別預算融資額調度的保留數2910億元再加上114年度預計的債務止借數而且要扣除債務的償還數以後所以預估114年底中央政府長期債務的餘額是6,5824億元"},{"start":7501.6,"end":7522.76,"text":"佔前三年度明目GDP的平均數是27.4%距離公債法所規定的債務存量上限40.6%還有13.2個百分點以上的報告敬請各位委員會議支持以及指教謝謝謝謝財政部長的報告我們接下來請經濟部龔部長請報告"},{"start":7543.652,"end":7569.578,"text":"主席韓院長以及各位委員先進大家好今天承蒙大院來邀請中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會以及民生國安任性的特別預算案進行報告敬請各位委員不吝賜教近年來由於國際的地緣政治風險的加劇通膨壓力的升溫等等的情況之下國際情勢變得複雜而多變"},{"start":7572.557,"end":7585.338,"text":"美國總統川普自上任以來立即也啟動了一系列的關稅調整政策其中最早實施的鋼鋁的232關稅已經在今年的3月12號上路"},{"start":7586.605,"end":7615.988,"text":"政府局需要透過各種強化任性措施以因應美國關稅新政策等等的國際情勢對我國的產業、就業、民生、國土安全等等的衝擊來因應城門大院已經支持了因應國際情勢強化經濟社會以及民生國安任性的特別條例已經在8月1號制定公佈作為編列本特別預算投入"},{"start":7616.568,"end":7641.79,"text":"支持產業安定就業照顧民生強化任性等四大主軸11項措施的法律上的依據並且配合台美關稅談判的發展及時的因應它的所需在於9月5號的時候修正公布了調整的特別預算的上限為5700億元可以分起來編列"},{"start":7643.758,"end":7663.248,"text":"本次特別預算的本期編列是5,500億元由經濟部、財政部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛福部、內政部、國防部還有海洋委員會依它業管措施項目來編列特別預算並且負責執行包括"},{"start":7664.309,"end":7677.577,"text":"企業的金融支持也好或者是提升產業的競爭力協助企業的開拓多元市場支持勞工的安定就業等等以及發放現金每人一萬元等等的十一項工作"},{"start":7679.017,"end":7683.321,"text":"各部會執行的工作項目簡單分數如下經濟部總共編列了461員來協助受衝擊產業的協助金融協助、升級轉型協助、多元市場協助"},{"start":7696.479,"end":7718.121,"text":"第二个是农业部的部分编列了191元投入了照顾农民的支持方案针对我国苏美主要的这些农作物提供关键性的一些支持第三个是劳动部的部分编列了250亿元投入了减班劳工薪资差役补贴"},{"start":7719.442,"end":7739.827,"text":"還有減班休息勞工的訓練津貼等等的五項安定就業措施以及益助勞保基金來穩健基金的運作第四項是財政部的編列2500億元它是用於財政支持措施以及發放現金等等的項目"},{"start":7742.435,"end":7759.882,"text":"第五是教育部編列了200億元來強化高等人才的培育並且提升大山院校的校務經營第六是衛福部編列了360億元加強弱勢民生的照顧包括益助健保基金以及關懷弱勢"},{"start":7761.483,"end":7785.408,"text":"第七項是內政部編列了一百一十二點五億元推動了老屋修繕或者是救災防護等等應變措施的強化韌性措施第八項是國防部編列了一千一百三十億餘元來執行強化國土的防衛能量以及提升資通作業環境的設備兩大措施"},{"start":7787.54,"end":7796.601,"text":"第九項是海委會主要編列了295億元推動現代化的裝備以及強化國安的任性能量"},{"start":7800.057,"end":7817.757,"text":"總結來說,面對國際形勢的嚴峻挑戰,部分機關已經從8月7日開始以以緩計及的原則,同步進行各項施政作業。但是,政策上推行上仍需要特別預算的經費,懇請大院支持,儘快通過本預算。"},{"start":7818.698,"end":7844.378,"text":"以利相關的施政除了讓產業金流跟訂單不間斷人才技術上再升級之外來因應國際經貿形勢的快速轉變並且穩定國人生活以及國土安全使得台灣在全世界的變局之下的國家韌性以及國際競爭力可以更強大以上報告 敬請指教謝謝大家"},{"start":7848.08,"end":7864.347,"text":"謝謝經濟部長的報告我們現在進行委員諮詢每位委員諮詢時間尋答不得超過15分鐘輪到諮詢委員如果不在場我們視為放棄首先請張綺凱委員諮詢吳思瑤委員請準備"},{"start":7905.045,"end":7928.098,"text":"謝謝韓院長 請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔣委員早 卓院長很高讚今天大家最關心的就是普發現金一萬年你剛才特別強調說要儘快對不對事實上"},{"start":7930.754,"end":7945.421,"text":"在國民黨跟民眾黨的提案是希望在10月底要開始發放這在原來通過的三讀條文是有的可是後來一波三折後來又提了修正案所以今天能不能從你嘴巴很清楚的跟全民講"},{"start":7946.582,"end":7974.311,"text":"在10月底可以開始發放因為第一個今天復委完之後下個禮拜我們行程已經排好了財政跟經濟聯席會在下個禮拜三跟四最晚禮拜四就會送回宴會了然後到這個時程應該在10月14號最晚17號可以完成立法院的三讀可是現在有一個有一個關卡可能會卡住因為你的新的這個條文裡面說要"},{"start":7976.229,"end":8005.111,"text":"特別預算公告完一個月內開始發放嘛對不對這裡面有彈性啦你今天能不能清楚因為立法院已經快加編了委員會快下個禮拜我們院會應該也很快你今天能不能承諾如果一切順利在最晚最晚在10月底讓果花一萬塊入帳給大家可以領得到最重要的原則是立法院程序快行政院就發放的就會快所以大家都必須快跟快但是"},{"start":8006.084,"end":8024.089,"text":"一切也要讓整個準備的作業要能夠詳實完整因為要發放2350萬人以上2350萬人以上的發放作業是相當大的雖然我們有112年6000元的發放平台當作基礎我們現在在把它進行優化而且今年比較"},{"start":8025.089,"end":8048.52,"text":"過去不一樣的是我們要防範很多的詐騙行為你看一段時間好多詐騙已經發生一旦我們通過之後可能那個更多所以我們要把詐騙的安全讓他做到這個治安更安全的狀態行政院的這個流程剛我已經跟他報告報告了已經快馬加鞭最晚在10月17號應該可以三讀通過了接下來反而是你這邊了你剛講"},{"start":8050.356,"end":8055.227,"text":"這個整個作業你現在應該開始要測試你現在ATM的櫃台機你內容是不是有變更"},{"start":8056.745,"end":8084.679,"text":"當初收銀商6000的時候那一套現在是可以繼續用的對不對可是領6000跟10000你完成變更了沒有第二個你開始測試了沒有這個現在要趕快做好不好這已經在準備在做了要趕快做這個要先做那第二次我剛講的你的條文裡面把我們10月底這個修掉了現在你就要盡快好不好往11月底的可以做的方式你自己要趕快做好不好你幫他拉來一排過了結果你因為你的流程延誤了搞到11月才發放好不好"},{"start":8086.361,"end":8110.015,"text":"大院審查的程序快 我們就會加快但是如果是11月17號到月底只有13天 中間還有廉價我們希望能夠更充分的準備所以你現在就趕快做啊 包括ATM貴來機這個還有整個測試 不用急 我們會很快的做這個都是現在可以做的嘛 對不對部長再點頭 趕快做 部長我強調一下老蔣 為什麼延誤到現在在討論這個議題"},{"start":8111.897,"end":8117.973,"text":"你大概是第一個發錢也是唯一一個發錢給人家還被人家罵的這個院長"},{"start":8119.315,"end":8148.731,"text":"就是一開始你提什麼違憲 後來又有排戶弄到後來就加了一個什麼不要領了一個選項對不對你看連周一坤都罵 那討論而已那個沒有加 那個只是研議而已沒有加在這個整個現在五個選項當中沒有加當初民間團體來要求的時候我們是去做研議研議的結果認為最自然的保障還要必須周延 所以並沒有加那個完全沒有延誤 我跟委員報告這個預算案我們是9月11號就送到大院了"},{"start":8149.071,"end":8165.916,"text":"今天是12月 時間是10月3號我們並沒有延誤太多我9月11號我們都快把嘉賓再做我提醒你說之前之前就是因為你現在在演繹哪有演繹你如果不要領的 還有一個選項沒有那個選項你為什麼連吳思耀都說你 委員"},{"start":8167.336,"end":8169.217,"text":"委員沒有那個選項喔沒有那個選項喔沒有那個選項喔9月11號我們預算案就送來啦"},{"start":8183.264,"end":8200.174,"text":"為什麼9月11號要到今天10月3號之前你一開始講到違憲後來說到排骨後來又說到這個選項你後來都改了啦都改了就好 可是時間上你完全不瞭解狀況 我們沒有改不瞭解狀況 我剛剛講的這三個不都是你"},{"start":8201.274,"end":8227.82,"text":"你搬車搬了三次我把這個身相跟你講叫你檢討你現在又說我不瞭解不要硬碰它我在提醒你更重要的不要再出現橫生直結了10月底趕快泡棒我9月11號就送來了到今天已經快一個月了委員我們前日作業都在進行當中而且積極的在辦事你今天測試了對不對也對測試ATM這一次還增加了加速增加1000多家的ATM機台"},{"start":8228.956,"end":8234.561,"text":"好 OK接下來我們要談專業的請經濟部長一起上來麻煩請經濟部長備詢時間停一下時間暫停財政部長要在我們要談專業的財政部長跟經濟部長一起上來麻煩再請財政部長備詢委員好"},{"start":8250.169,"end":8268.935,"text":"這一天啊從美國商務部長講到這個台美晶片五五分之後包括昨天鄭麗君副院長開了記者會講台灣製造很多人在擔心的是我們台積電會不會真的五五分變半瓶三了今天我的問題都非常直接所以要問專業的昨天記者會"},{"start":8273.104,"end":8301.906,"text":"鄭麗君提到說這是一個台灣模式他真正的台灣模式包裝的是什麼就是對美要擴大投資嘛對不對所以真正的關鍵點在什麼地方你像日本南韓他們去擴大投資日本多了投資5500億嘛南韓多少3500億對不對所以他們得到了什麼他們把本來關稅是20%降到了15%所以現在有兩個很大的問題了台灣製造真正的關鍵是什麼是兩個第一個"},{"start":8304.24,"end":8319.445,"text":"請問到底台灣製造我們要投資美國擴大投資多少錢就是你這個產業聚落到底要從台灣搬多少錢去這是第一個題目第二個也很重要有因為這樣子我們的關稅會降下來嗎這個題目院長還是"},{"start":8324.369,"end":8351.414,"text":"八位委員您剛才提到會不會有五五分剛才秀出來政府院長已經講說我們不會同意政府院長也講所謂的五五分我們不會同意昨天政府院長已經有這樣的回答了五五分不會同意要怎麼做等一下我會問你我現在問你的是你們現在的台灣模式就是對美擴大投資那現在到底要投資多少錢"},{"start":8353.526,"end":8380.665,"text":"所有的投資基本上都是企業界他們在做規劃企業支持去對不對我們要做系統保證對不對我們從旁協助金融上的支持是一部分其他的還有行政上的協助其他的協助現在日本跟南海有提到某部分是民間去我現在問你到底我們要擴大投資不管是政府或民間到底要多少錢去我們產業的節奏還是立足台灣佈局全球很具體的"},{"start":8382.506,"end":8403.186,"text":"像日本就投資了五千五百億嘛他本來兩邊在談的時候日本說要投資四千億嘛對不對川普把他大筆一揮說你要提高五千五百億本來利潤是平分他說我們美國要再90%嘛我現在就問你人家都那麼具體你現在提出台灣模式人家有日本模式 南韓模式嘛你的投資金額是多少啦"},{"start":8403.786,"end":8426.582,"text":"我們跟他不一樣他是拿一筆錢出來但是他們還有爭議我們不是我們是協助廠商對外全球布局所以他主動權是在廠商所以廠商有需求我們才會提出支持他們不一樣他們是所以你有精算過就像日本跟南南這樣我們到底有多少的企業或者是政府要進去的錢是多少"},{"start":8427.182,"end":8440.154,"text":"你總要有金額啊 現在我們說台灣台灣現在大概是全世界現在在談高關稅談判談到目前沒有那個數目是出現的對不對我剛講的很具體嘛日本有 美國有 印度有 歐盟有 歐盟4500億嘛"},{"start":8442.281,"end":8469.695,"text":"那你現在提出台灣模式你真正的現在很多專家寫者在問這個問題啊你到底要去擴這個就是擴大投資對不對到底要投資多少錢你們沒有精算過嗎你們昨天已經提出來了去跟美國談過了應該知道要投資多少錢吧沒有我們有盤點過廠商的意願但是這廠商的意願可能要有所以盤點過你要跟美國談的時候你提出來是我們可能擴大投資多少錢因為這個牽扯到你投資多少錢你能夠才能夠把你關稅降下來不是嗎"},{"start":8470.882,"end":8491.818,"text":"你到現在沒有精算過這個你當初去跟美國談怎麼談的沒有嗎還是你不用跟我講我們當然有反應現在廠商他的意願上的表達是如何這個是有表達給美方你們沒有精算過這個投資金額是多大扣到投資是多大嗎"},{"start":8492.759,"end":8518.128,"text":"你是不願意講還是沒有 正常狀況下都應該沒有嘛很多專家寫者都在質疑說全世界金額都出現了台灣到現在沒有 昨天有一個台灣模式講出來了你是要趕快欺騙全台灣的民眾還是你不願意講還是沒有精算你跟美國談的時候你給他數目這是多少啦我沒有參與談判 所以實際上談判的過程我並不是非常了解那這樣好不好 部長跟你講 你們回去要跟"},{"start":8519.88,"end":8539.901,"text":"這個數目要早一點跟民眾講第二個更重要了昨天副院長有提到有進展希望把關稅可以降下來我們現在有期待因為我們提出了台灣模式了過幾天你們可能會跟大家很明確的講到底因為這樣努力我們的關稅可以降到多少有降的趨勢出來嗎"},{"start":8542.658,"end":8562.38,"text":"跟委員報告國際談判的習慣就是在到最後的總結結論出來之前我們不宜說出現在雙方談判的條件你剛所說的對等關稅什麼是合理的對等關稅以及雙方在投資在採購上面有沒有做過一些什麼承諾我只能跟你講"},{"start":8563.181,"end":8586.856,"text":"對等關稅我們在爭取合理的對等關稅但是對於投資跟採購目前我們有提出一些想法但是還沒有達到最後承諾的這個階段所以我們不便在這裡說我們而且投資的部分是廠商去投資政府沒有立場說要廠商投多少後來政府你一定要跟南韓跟日本跟印度一樣你一個數目字然後現在最重要的 院長"},{"start":8587.757,"end":8601.353,"text":"我們的效率沒有那麼差啦也沒有那麼樣的一個黑箱啦全世界你看美國那個日本跟南海現在不繼續在談嗎南海現在美國川普突然講你這3500億不是慢慢來喔他叫他要"},{"start":8602.213,"end":8624.663,"text":"要現金白銀啊他說你現在馬上來啊結果現在不就出來講了我外匯存底才4100億你叫我馬上拿3500出來我就重演97年的金融風暴啊人家都是透明的嘛就在談的過程裡面有些東西是要具體的我現在跟你講的就是說該跟人民講的第一個你效率不能這麼差談這麼久沒談下來第二個你該跟人民講的剛剛我剛剛講的第一個"},{"start":8626.164,"end":8643.826,"text":"要投資金的是多少第二個也很重要我問副總等一下副總為什麼你這個很重要很多人很關心委員你這個就清楚了這個就清楚了關於外媒的報導日本韓國跟美國談好的過程結論出來之後他們現在都有一點點不同的意志表達出來所以我是覺得"},{"start":8644.967,"end":8658.921,"text":"談得快不如談得好我們好好的談談到最有利我國的產業國家的利益最有利我國的人民這個部分我們好好的談我們拖太久了啦現在已經出現多少無薪假"},{"start":8660.455,"end":8683.907,"text":"有些企業現在都在上四天班上 變成休三了有些是倒閉了那個春節現在進行是 我們是20加N你如果說你現在是像日本跟南韓已經降到15%我們現在比別人高 結果還是談不下來人民黨現在更重要對 就是你現在部長要回答這個事情現在台灣模式到底不是就金額的問題了"},{"start":8685.356,"end":8696.504,"text":"有多少的企業要過去有多少的工作機會多少的人才會流到美國去造成的產力外移 你有計算過嗎?有沒有算過我們會減少多少的工作機會就業機會"},{"start":8701.391,"end":8728.934,"text":"包委員我剛才還是提到立足台灣佈局全球立足台灣是根本所以沒有所謂的外移這是力量的延伸他沒有因為說大家寫者最近這一個月特別從昨天開始有多少人你們看看報導好不好沒有因為說你一個產業美國一個產業園區台灣怎麼當然是資金的資金會過去人才會過去嘛所以說你要趕快精算出來嘛你本來就應該有來更重要來我們看一下來"},{"start":8730.589,"end":8758.019,"text":"很多專家寫者昨天去做了一個對比看鄭益晶開了記者會完之後大家看看兩邊的這個你們一直講說我們沒有討論也不會答應美國的商務部長說一定要五五分我們提出了四個重點你有沒有發現四個重點不能說很像只能說一模一樣你的右邊的這四個要點"},{"start":8760.246,"end":8784.356,"text":"幾乎都是達成你本來不要的盧特尼克美國商業部長要的一共啥希望在川普結束任期前將他們今天的支持力要提升到40%投資金額要超過5000億並且要涵蓋從設計到封裝的完整供應鏈下面更重要一共啥唯有把整條供應鏈帶回去美國"},{"start":8785.436,"end":8811.537,"text":"才能夠達成讓台灣參與喔而且你要同意參與供應鏈這就是川普政府川普的魔力川普魔力讓你們擇福了嗎你看你右邊的視點來你看看我只是企業要去喔你們去幫他整合完第二個你還做金融的信保機制去支持他的企業投資所以我剛問你嘛你到底要去信保多少錢要去多少錢這是不是他講的這個五千億嗎"},{"start":8813.941,"end":8831.033,"text":"日本5500億 南韓3500億我們這個信保到底要承諾多少錢這筆錢要不要的回來第三個從科學研究的經驗打造美國的巨肉這不都是幫他完成嗎所以我明確的要求不要只有嘴巴講說我不討論也不答應"},{"start":8854.314,"end":8856.214,"text":"好 謝謝張祺凱委員的資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部委首長貝許昀 謝謝"},{"start":8864.417,"end":8890.983,"text":"卓院長請喝水好謝謝報告院會我們在一層二樓旁聽的來自臺北市大安區的好朋友我們掌聲歡迎我們接下來請吳思瑤委員質詢楊瓊英文請準備好謝謝韓院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":8901.417,"end":8925.583,"text":"國務委員好院長所有內閣團隊大家辛苦了我們先看下一頁您上週在立法院新會期的施政報告您說了內閣的三大重建也是台灣急需的三大重建經貿佈局的重建災民生活的重建以及社會信任的重建我認為都非常重要"},{"start":8926.604,"end":8947.781,"text":"但我也要提台湾最严峻的一个挑战往往在于我们很多的社会资讯被错假消息所影响了所混淆了这也就是三大重建当中您罕见的把社会的信任重建列在重要的施政方针上我非常的肯定"},{"start":8948.522,"end":8971.521,"text":"所以說我們要社會信任的重建就是要有效的反制錯假訊息有效的去破解這些認知作戰所以當認知作戰無所不在對方是用槍砲彈藥的時候我們執政部門就不能還在拿彈弓啊所以說呢如果"},{"start":8972.793,"end":8984.437,"text":"政府要迎向一個重建社會秩序也就是等於要保障提升我們的執政效能如果有SOP的話你認為SOP是什麼當然我們一向對整個社會的要求就是"},{"start":8989.849,"end":9012.934,"text":"對守法對好人要進行更多的保障對於不法的對那個侵犯別人的我們一定要有法律的依據作為工具來嚴格的懲罰這樣才能建立一個社會公平的那條線社會安全的那條線建立起來之後我們才有資格跟能力要求人民跟我們信賴我們共同建立社會制度一起前進好下一頁"},{"start":9014.11,"end":9026.884,"text":"我很快的列舉出我認為我們的執政團隊需要有重建社會信任來保障提升我們執政效能的SOP"},{"start":9027.779,"end":9049.112,"text":"第一步有效情搜你要知道社會在關心什麼什麼樣的錯假訊息正在肆虐正在擴散第二步叫做精準闢謠第三你要加速擴散真相加速擴散我們的政策內涵"},{"start":9050.333,"end":9065.09,"text":"最後一個不能偏廢的必要的時候讓法律途徑讓司法來保護每一個閣員保護我們政府的執政效能所以這是我思考出來的"},{"start":9066.297,"end":9086.17,"text":"重建社會秩序行政部門要有的SOP有效情搜第一步精準闢謠第二步快速擴散很重要最後必要的話採取司法的途徑下一頁這兩天我要替我們內政部劉士芳部長說話"},{"start":9088.24,"end":9115.099,"text":"一個這麼努力在防災跟救災來統領我們的內閣團隊的指揮官我們劉部長居然到昨天還在被國民黨黨中央連災情也在消費連救災也在造謠國民黨造謠說劉世芳我們的行政院內政部延緩了撤離的關鍵時3小時"},{"start":9118.121,"end":9146.83,"text":"我要肯定我們劉部長昨天快速的行政院的院會後的記者會快速的澄清而且保證你在家最有效的就是你秀出了我們的完整的通聯記錄用完整的資訊正確的資訊Seeing is believing就在這裡國民黨不要再造謠我認為非常快速而且精準有效但是And the land"},{"start":9148.669,"end":9176.912,"text":"有沒有考慮我直接破題好了 院長我非常支持我們內閣團隊往往覺得息事寧人新會期有預算要審預算在在野黨的手上或者是我們內閣團隊就不應當去新送我認為除了闢謠必要的時候採取提告司法的途徑是非常重要劉部長你覺得呢"},{"start":9178.272,"end":9202.154,"text":"我們可以審慎考慮院長你會支持我們的團隊鼓勵大家必要的時候因為這打擊的不只是個人的形象他重挫的是政府的效能的形象我尊重部長對個人權益的選擇但我鼓勵部長為維護整個團隊要做出必要的想法好我們來看下一段影片"},{"start":9203.594,"end":9211.075,"text":"這是昨天晚間在所有花蓮的地方群組快速傳散的一個影片來"},{"start":9215.486,"end":9215.626,"text":"好 停了"},{"start":9241.641,"end":9263.19,"text":"简单讲我要告诉院长部长这个影片昨天夜间在数十个花莲的地方群组有系统性计划性的大量的扩散他讲的造谣的内容就是现在我们的正在所收到的善款会被民进党政府"},{"start":9263.55,"end":9283.679,"text":"拿去挪用用在不跟救災相關的事情甚至就是會侵吞了這群災民應當獲得的善款這就是不折不扣的造謠昨天晚上到今天早上快速的在傳散一夕之間數十個上百個群組這樣擴散這絕對背後有組織性"},{"start":9289.756,"end":9304.621,"text":"絕對是謠言吧每一封的善款就是用在災民身上就是用在災區重建我的說法是這個是將自己的不了解跟猜測變成一種懷疑把自己的不信任要擴大成為全國人民的不信任"},{"start":9305.379,"end":9327.615,"text":"這是非常要不得的一個行為政府從來沒有說過政災基金會收的款項要做這個做那個從來沒有說過從來政災基金會這個捐款到昨天已經七億八千萬我們一定會用在災民身上而且會直接快速有效的發放下禮拜陳金德政委就會到災區一戰式的來受理很多的作業內容"},{"start":9328.439,"end":9356.11,"text":"好 謝謝院長的說明面對錯假訊息絕對要回到我們剛剛的SOP你要勤搜 獲得資訊你要精準地闢謠你要快速地擴散正確的訊息最後考慮採取司法的途徑我跟院長報告不得不請回 辛苦了手上這一張是我最近收到的我擔任民進黨幹事長的這段時間我受到非常多的安全威脅"},{"start":9357.475,"end":9373.562,"text":"不管寫email的或打電話來的我一向也認為習是寧人但如果習是寧人就是姑息養奸如果持續的溫良公儉讓就是為虎作娼所以我第一次針對我個人威脅我"},{"start":9374.738,"end":9393.116,"text":"要斬首行動賴清德也保不了你的這一個威脅的事件我提告了而我這幾天收到我們台北士林地方檢察署的檢疫的判決也就是會處以也抓到人了"},{"start":9395.093,"end":9418.478,"text":"讓這一個恐嚇威脅跟你意見不同的人他要付出代價他要接受司法的制裁我說過我過去也認為習氏寧人可能選民有情緒我們要理解但如果一再的去縱容姑息真的就是為虎作娼所以我鼓勵夏業從過去陳時中擔任防疫指揮官"},{"start":9420.248,"end":9435.455,"text":"每一個造謠都針對他重挫政府防疫的所有的執政效能跟形象但是正因為陳時中提告了62個司法案件還他清白全部不起訴千劫"},{"start":9436.873,"end":9455.181,"text":"陳吉仲部長當時的超思雞蛋案也被在野黨聯手認知作戰如何可怕還有中國在背後引舞也透過司法還陳吉仲清白正義雖然會遲到但是正義一定會到"},{"start":9456.121,"end":9481.941,"text":"所以我希望行政院給予我們所有的內閣首長一個最強大的支持如果傷及個人的聲譽如果傷及我們執政的效能國家的形象更是破壞了社會的信任的話我們該告就告您願意給所有內閣的閣員這一個最強大的支持力量嗎"},{"start":9483.544,"end":9511.775,"text":"你所提到的應該是網路上的人權啊對網路人權我們通常都比較沒有正面去看待他但是如果這個已經變成傷害個人傷害如果是我剛講國民黨啊如果傷害個人傷害團隊傷害到人民跟政府之間的信任我鼓勵我也支持所有在網路上被這些霸凌或是被這些網路不只網路我也是這個也是被霸凌或是用這種"},{"start":9513.479,"end":9526.956,"text":"一切性的口語去做一些人生的攻擊我請我們的首長一方面尊重他自己的選擇一方面鼓勵為團隊做出應該有的做法好 謝謝也希望所有的內閣官員我們獲得院長的支持"},{"start":9527.967,"end":9550.667,"text":"也就是司法是社會正義的最後一道防線我們不濫訴但是保護國家保護閣員我認為必要的話必須採取司法的途徑剛剛講到SOP下葉院長你有被跟拍嗎我到目前沒有感覺到沒有感覺那你覺得你有沒有"},{"start":9553.851,"end":9565.137,"text":"您應該會有您也我想極有可能會有甚至連坐在我們台上的韓國瑜院長很有可能也是這個跟拍狗仔集團的獵殺名單吧"},{"start":9567.955,"end":9590.925,"text":"剛剛講的SOP我同樣在這裡用短短的時間在民主法治的社會居然發生這種為了打擊政敵用盯梢用跟監用偷拍的方式來做出極不道德而且違法的狗仔行為我們除了表達遺憾更要譴責我甚至建議韓國瑜院長立法院要不要成立一個調查委員會"},{"start":9594.172,"end":9603.981,"text":"或者是立法院也可以考慮在院會作出一個譴責案因為在座的113位立委包括韓國瑜院長都極有可能是受害者"},{"start":9605.017,"end":9625.403,"text":"所以說反跟姦反偷拍反對這種政治征防前端要有效的預防我也呼籲啟動我們所有的保六或者是我們刑事警察局協助所有的內閣閣員所有的坐車的安全要去做這些反跟車的科技的作為有效預防"},{"start":9626.443,"end":9647.644,"text":"第二個SOP如果查到真的有被跟拍的事實而且是違法的手段末端就要來嚴格就處該告就告當然這是保護閣員的隱私之外也是保障國家的安全因為我們不知道這個偷拍集團背後有沒有境外勢力"},{"start":9648.385,"end":9672.005,"text":"所以這個SOP我也希望院長支持所有的閣員協助我們所有的必要用科技的方式來反跟監 反偷拍大家損一下大家保護大家保護閣員 保護我們的政府就是保護國家安全院長這個SOP是我今天給您的第二個建議現在進入我們關稅談判我們來看看"},{"start":9675.222,"end":9700.197,"text":"五五波的這件事對不起五五分很遺憾剛剛前一位質詢的張其凱委員還在明知在談判沒有觸及不可能答應也絕對沒有承諾的所謂的台美晶片產能五五分這件事情他還在這裡持續的擴散錯假的訊息我今天要用最後短短的時間我們來看看赴美投資的那一頁"},{"start":9702.557,"end":9726.678,"text":"跟院長分享 赴美投資就是罪惡的嗎赴美投資就應當被解讀是產業外移掏空台灣嗎我們看看國際社會各個主要國家這幾年對美的投資存量的總額都不斷的攀升而台灣並沒有如"},{"start":9728.174,"end":9740.263,"text":"在野黨的委員所擴散的那麼嚴重我們看看日本看看韓國看看中國也好德國也好世界各國都在佈局全球所以台灣不止"},{"start":9741.716,"end":9768.774,"text":"落人於後更要搶得先機不要把富美投資妖魔化下一頁在我們看台灣模式那一頁我非常支持這個台灣模式讓台灣成功的產業聚落的方式可以在全球落地這是壯大台灣不是掏空台灣這個G2G的合作您在這裡告訴我們是不是極有可能被實踐"},{"start":9770.678,"end":9797.229,"text":"談判已經到最後關鍵的這個時刻了那所有的細節這個磋商都已經完成了目前在等待的就是雙方對一些彼此的條件最後一個承諾那麼再做一個最後的總結所以總結會議我們認為啊會在適當的時間就出現我們總結會議會納入這個台灣模式那五五分這個部分副院長已經說過很多次了沒有談過沒有承諾也不會答應好最後一頁"},{"start":9798.328,"end":9805.121,"text":"我要在這裡再一次的支持擴大對美國的投資布局全球不是白白送錢"},{"start":9808.063,"end":9836.18,"text":"只要我們家一起賺大錢我們作為產業最強大的體質力我支持讓臺灣博士可以加強原理促成美國政府接受我們的營銷方案他說我們不會再說了只是掏錢給錢我們是用產業聚落合資共生共利共贏的方式來影響臺美同關聯集團最終的正價值"},{"start":9844.462,"end":9846.923,"text":"好 謝謝吳思瑤委員質詢謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來楊求英委員質詢之後我們將會休息10分鐘我們請楊求英委員請質詢"},{"start":9872.924,"end":9884.895,"text":"謝謝院會主席韓院長以及行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊各位同仁 新聞界的朋友各位我們親愛的國人楊瓊瑜發言首先邀請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":9894.62,"end":9915.03,"text":"我想坊间有一个声音说我们搬走了一个台积电还不够还要再送一个产业科技园区这个声音出来政府绝对有这个责任要让民众去清楚让产业去了解这非常重要"},{"start":9916.21,"end":9936.193,"text":"當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼 加碼 加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息"},{"start":9937.588,"end":9964.994,"text":"到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技園區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教"},{"start":9965.934,"end":9988.411,"text":"我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活 產業怎麼去煉解所以要請教 首先要請教到底你這個產業園區你的規模有多大"},{"start":9989.111,"end":10010.133,"text":"你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好 謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區"},{"start":10011.51,"end":10027.799,"text":"我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業"},{"start":10030.851,"end":10052.274,"text":"因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下"},{"start":10053.655,"end":10075.422,"text":"肯定的說 沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼"},{"start":10078.763,"end":10094.906,"text":"我剛剛被委員否定的就是說當初的科學園區也是小小的園區到今天這麼大我們現在到美國去如果大家會成立一個園區我的重點你還沒講出來什麼小小的新竹科園區我再次跟你否定我們針對本期的提問請做回答我們是一個服務的園區服務國內的廠商為主請問你現在要"},{"start":10102.728,"end":10117.085,"text":"所說的沒有是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分好那接下來本價請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少你是說廠商投資的還是你剛剛說的園區"},{"start":10120.448,"end":10138.972,"text":"廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程"},{"start":10139.492,"end":10158.84,"text":"政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去"},{"start":10165.916,"end":10184.87,"text":"那廠商要做支援球的布局我們都同意啊你這麼說讓民眾更加的不傻傻本期希望你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果"},{"start":10185.47,"end":10214.068,"text":"就是奉送1650億美元去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你說沒有55分在本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們 最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的"},{"start":10214.788,"end":10241.245,"text":"內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾"},{"start":10242.606,"end":10266.422,"text":"有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛 你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去瞭解所以本來要告訴你"},{"start":10267.523,"end":10292.976,"text":"我們也不要只有內宣外宣了我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是母殺殺的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠"},{"start":10293.776,"end":10315.357,"text":"還要再辦一個科技產業局那到底不能用送一個台積電你不願意說送但是他是在投資所以本席希望能夠以台灣的產業能夠穩定當然 地主台灣是第一要求我們剛講過 談判的原則就是以國家的利益 產業的利益"},{"start":10316.398,"end":10336.208,"text":"國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益 以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點"},{"start":10338.709,"end":10354.354,"text":"也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教"},{"start":10355.374,"end":10380.641,"text":"請教因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成那請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明"},{"start":10382.13,"end":10395.554,"text":"依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝所以本市要還是說"},{"start":10398.218,"end":10426.394,"text":"約中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是 準備工作請部長再說明 重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短儘快目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統"},{"start":10427.274,"end":10451.161,"text":"還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾"},{"start":10452.622,"end":10470.46,"text":"同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦最快的速度那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放馬上就可以發放 好"},{"start":10471.621,"end":10498.62,"text":"這個非常好 終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內的產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店之間來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的盡快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去"},{"start":10499.96,"end":10500.161,"text":"嚴謀成功謝謝"},{"start":10529.66,"end":10543.826,"text":"都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律"},{"start":10545.467,"end":10572.023,"text":"等這個規範因為是特別所以會排除到這一些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的流量如果以這種方式就走旁門來控管債務的流量管制"},{"start":10572.463,"end":10595.281,"text":"那可能也会持续的增加整个公共债务的一个攀升那所以呢预算中心也特别提到了中央政府每一年你以公共债务一年以上你的公共债务没有还的有多少呢有5兆多那换句话说平均值每一个人的负债就是刚才本席所说的是这个25.6万"},{"start":10597.182,"end":10616.602,"text":"在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完"},{"start":10618.863,"end":10633.073,"text":"所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們在特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊"},{"start":10633.853,"end":10648.877,"text":"對 獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元"},{"start":10651.798,"end":10667.735,"text":"那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式"},{"start":10668.416,"end":10696.637,"text":"那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以我本需要請教院長在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多"},{"start":10699.025,"end":10712.226,"text":"院長 您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分我們的舉債是這樣子來的我發現今天是超增稅收跟這個預算是不在的我們沒有超增稅收對不對 你這四年超增"},{"start":10715.563,"end":10738.156,"text":"是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望聽到的是院長你的政策是希望聽到你的政策院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個而且我們的債務世界是非常有等度的我們財務政策 財政政策是這樣舉債跟還款"},{"start":10744.641,"end":10747.857,"text":"在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼"},{"start":10749.682,"end":10778.198,"text":"如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債我們每年都照我們的我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外還增加還債務院長 本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題 好吧我再問院長 可以嗎"},{"start":10778.658,"end":10780.139,"text":"好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":10806.84,"end":10824.234,"text":"不愿意可以在一层二楼旁听到来自花莲 泛 杂奈 狮子会的好朋友们我们海内外都很关心花莲相亲我们掌声欢迎各位到来我们接下来休息十分钟之后请林义军委员咨询现在休息"},{"start":11480.799,"end":11488.342,"text":"抱怨会员我们继续开会接下来请林义军委员咨询庄瑞雄委员请准备"},{"start":11519.035,"end":11533.909,"text":"謝謝主席 請行政院長麻煩請卓院長備刑林委好"},{"start":11534.963,"end":11561.491,"text":"主委院長好其實在今天進入整個問題之前本席還是先幫我們花蓮人請命這一次馬太安艷澀湖潰堤的整個悲劇給政府也是一個很大的警惕希望未來不要有這種遺憾的事情再發生所以希望針對這一次艷澀湖造成的災情我們大家還是同島迎命讓我們全民都可以看到政府守護人民的決心"},{"start":11562.831,"end":11584.185,"text":"也希望中央和地方都能共同救災不分你我一起幫助災民渡過難關讓花蓮人民可以回歸正常的生活讓花蓮的觀光還有經濟都可以復甦因為畢竟災後這整個重建的工作是一個大的工作而且不能只是單靠志工還有這些地方政府的力量"},{"start":11584.685,"end":11604.328,"text":"所以我們當然也知道中央有很多現在很多事情要處理的還有要面對的但是此時此刻對我們花蓮來說最希望的就是院長能給予我們災民最快速的協助還有最實質的協助和補助趕緊讓花蓮的家園重建讓人民恢復正常的生活"},{"start":11605.819,"end":11621.585,"text":"我昨天說過我們對花蓮這災區我們非常的感覺到痛心尤其對這個罹難的人我們給最高的哀悼我們有七個順序要做第一個就是搶救生命一個就是恢復家園"},{"start":11623.001,"end":11645.885,"text":"第三個就是把這些垃圾要清掉第四個就是恢復它的環境跟交通這四個我們現在希望在中秋節以前能夠達到基本生活的正常那接下來的第五項就是對於農損 房屋毀損還有公共設施毀損 包括交通毀損我們全面性的展開重建的工作這個是重建的工作"},{"start":11646.845,"end":11664.253,"text":"再來一個第六個就是當這些補償都完成之後這種全面性的重建的復原工作要中央跟地方合力來完成這個完這個之後我們還有第七個就是那為什麼會發生這樣的災害我們一定要把原因找出來"},{"start":11665.506,"end":11682.124,"text":"在大自然底下我們認為做的有沒有疏失以利於未來我們還有其他煙色湖啊比方說我們在新竹尖石鄉還有一個太剛溪的煙色湖雖然不大但是我們還有很多煙色湖一定要用這次的經驗讓未來不會發生同樣的悲劇"},{"start":11683.496,"end":11704.067,"text":"好 謝謝院長也希望現在災民最希望的就是希望政府可以給他們災民最大的實質上的補助我們會努力來做到像我們的前進協調所無論是剛開始的賴建信次長以及現在的紀蓮成政府都非常專心的投入我也希望能夠跟地方取得充分的合作好 謝謝"},{"start":11705.373,"end":11723.228,"text":"接下來針對今天的預算我想說貝恩西想要請問院長我們現在的年度的總預算難道已經無法因應國際的情勢的變動了嗎否則為什麼會需要特別提出這一個預算案還有台美對等的關稅談判究竟結果是如何有什麼進展嗎"},{"start":11725.942,"end":11755.11,"text":"我記得去年520之前總統在跟我談未來工作的時候我們都同樣有想法總統也指示我們盡量不舉債盡量不編特別預算所以你看我們去年到現在除了以前年度編的特別預算我們沒有真的編特別預算這次是特別那我們也希望能夠不舉債但是因為我們支出實在是太多了稅數不夠所以我們一定要舉債那因為這次我們幾項的特別預算包括"},{"start":11756.018,"end":11764.818,"text":"今天討論的這個強化韌性這是因應國際情勢不得不這麼做另外我們的這個丹納斯颱風也不得不做特別的預算"},{"start":11766.441,"end":11785.592,"text":"這個都雖然違背我們過去一年多前的想法但是我們認為國際情勢在改變國內的情勢在改變而且災害的頻頻的發生我們必須要給人民更大的安心所以我們編了這個特別預算特別預算當中有的是沿用過去的年度的稅基剩餘有的必須再舉債"},{"start":11787.354,"end":11808.389,"text":"這個也已經不是我們原來的初衷的想法但是我們認為既然國家需要既然社會人民需要我們就這樣跟大院來取得支持之後我們還是秉持那種當用財用當用折用的這個原則我們會把每一筆預算每一分錢用到最需要而且我們會珍惜這樣的一個國家資源"},{"start":11810.357,"end":11827.979,"text":"因為院長這次其實從行政院提出的特別預算來看高達5500億當然涵蓋了很多的部會包括內政 國防 經濟還有農業 醫療還有教育這些本來只是因為本來這個特別預算是要因應美國川普的總統"},{"start":11829.12,"end":11842.385,"text":"對台灣的加徵的關稅的經濟衝擊還有給全民普發一萬元以外但問題是現在也僅僅只有經濟預算還包括了國土安全韌性然後本席看了一下整個預算書的內容發現因應關稅衝擊的支持產業的經濟韌性竟然只有780億元"},{"start":11849.187,"end":11877.199,"text":"而國土安全韌性卻高達到1500億元整個預算的主次顛倒表示行政院根本可能就沒有把因應對等關稅的衝擊放在第一位這如何提供產業充分的支持呢還有如何提升國際的競爭力呢因為賴清德總統從就職開始就不斷地一直在強調國安的韌性但無論國家安全或者國土安全都是政府平常就應該要做的事情"},{"start":11877.979,"end":11893.666,"text":"應該在每年的總預算中就要體現出來沒有理由需要編特別的預算那到現在有什麼就是重大威脅國土安全的事件嗎還是特別需要編列這個特別預算呢因為我們看了根據了整個預算法第83條的規定"},{"start":11895.367,"end":11924.339,"text":"特別預算只有在國防緊急設施或戰爭還有國家經濟重大變故還有重大的災變還有不定期或數年一次的重大的震勢這四個情況才能得以編列但是川普關稅的衝擊整個的是整個經濟毫無疑問的國家經濟重大的變故所以編列那請問這上面哪一項是國土安全韌性編列的1500億的特別預算的理由呢"},{"start":11924.819,"end":11947.16,"text":"在副部長答覆之前我先跟委員報告我們雖然支持產業有780億當中有180億是農業的支持另外我們有安定就業的150億我們還有照顧民生包括普發現金總共有3070億再加起來才是整個特別預算當中的大宗至於1500億的國土安全韌性這個部分請副部長來答覆"},{"start":11950.443,"end":11964.749,"text":"跟委員檢要報告我想我們六個案子裡面大概分兩大類一個就是自動電作業環境及設備的提升這是一大類另外一大類就是改善及強化各重要防衛設施並整建各式的庫儲設施"},{"start":11966.029,"end":11988.755,"text":"現在跟委員報告主要就是在於說我們的自動電作業環境跟設備的提升如果我們要按照一般的公務預算來編列的話都只能夠在維持各部隊的這些有關通識電設備還有核心管道的電路的更換跟指揮所內部電路的修繕等等這些例行性的工項所以我們如果要一次性的達成這個"},{"start":11990.635,"end":12003.265,"text":"多路的備援 機動的部署跟快速恢復這樣子的一個能力的話我們需要有這樣子的一個一筆的預算然後我們快速的能夠形成戰力那有關那個"},{"start":12006.224,"end":12028.192,"text":"強化國土防衛能量的部分也是如此因為如果我們按照這個年度的這樣的預算來排列的話呢相關的這些預算的這個金額都只能夠做基本的維持沒有辦法一次性的快速的整建所以我們現在一定要快速來進行後備戰力改革還有回復一年級151的實戰化的訓練所以"},{"start":12030.433,"end":12053.175,"text":"各式的訓場要快速的整建我們後續會有很多很多的新式的武器要進來所以庫儲的設施如果按照我們原來作業為職會來編的話我們編的金額也是相當的低沒有辦法一次性的把所有我們需要的彈藥的庫儲的設施做一次性的整建剛才部長的意思是說這樣的話這一次的預算會編在武器上面嗎"},{"start":12054.276,"end":12081.804,"text":"這些預算會編在這上面嗎沒有 編在武器上面它兩大類一個是支通電的部分然後這一個部分就是主要在建構備援機動跟韌性另外一大類就是整個的所謂的國土防衛能量這個包括訓場 庫儲設施還有我們的戰備的存量打算要加倍然後要比如說所以這次的特別預算會不會編在武器上面這一次的特別預算沒有在武器裝備這個部分"},{"start":12083.752,"end":12098.952,"text":"也跟委員報告因為我們現在這是談判的過程內容我們不是關稅的談判我們著重的是對等關稅還有非關稅的貿易障礙還有貿易便捷化另外一個就是經濟安全"},{"start":12099.272,"end":12121.979,"text":"所以我們對於息產地違規轉運我們還是要做有效的防範不論是國防或海巡將來在這個部分都必須對我們的海域海疆做更多的資通信安全的保障也必須充實我們更多的能量也包括這個硬體的能量跟軟體的設備都一定要提升起來我們才有辦法在經濟安全這個向下提升我們自己的力量防止息產地 防止這個違規轉運"},{"start":12122.819,"end":12138.738,"text":"好那我再請問部長部長在這邊這有關強化國安韌性在內政部國防部還有農業部還有海洋委員會其實都有編了強化國土防衛能量的這些預算當然賴清德總統在9月20號出席全社會防衛韌性的國際論壇中"},{"start":12140.1,"end":12154.808,"text":"他也有提出來說政府將具體的行動持續強化實力提升國防力量同時編列強化國土安全任性的預算但是我們回頭想一下我們歷年來的我們的萬安演習其實為什麼現在還停留在"},{"start":12155.228,"end":12170.695,"text":"街上停車進行形式化的交通人員的管制呢因為現在萬安演習其實是全台整個居民的合作應該要提高國安任性的重要的是一個實戰的演練初衷當然就是教育全民在面對"},{"start":12171.835,"end":12195.26,"text":"管事突發戰爭還是突然災害的時候我們大家要如何避難的自保但是長期以來都太流於形式了讓人民不把演習當認真甚至連政府有時候部門也會覺得說不要引起恐慌為理由然後把整個演習可能簡化了也可能把它壓縮了然後就變成一個例行的公司甚至變成一個"},{"start":12195.7,"end":12221.667,"text":"可能是變成一個年度的一個作秀的大戰所以我相對的我看了一個對應在我們跟我們比較好的鄰近的國家日本他的經驗他們的防災教育就是從小都養成了而且他們就是在全民的平常的基本的素養裡面日本把防災教育融入了學校也融入了社區也融入了工作場所和家庭都是有例行的防災的訓練還有備品的整個檢查"},{"start":12224.108,"end":12248,"text":"連在台灣最知名的櫻桃小丸子這樣的卡通其實我們都可以看到整個的演習的細節都會在卡通裡面都有呈現但是訪觀台灣我們不要說防災的知識可能教育不足甚至連資訊都更不足所以為什麼日本可以做到防災變成全民的DNA但台灣卻永遠都在亡羊補牢"},{"start":12248.82,"end":12270.78,"text":"是政府對災害避難的宣導不夠嗎還是根本沒有落實還是因為政府把這個平常應該花在刀口上面有效宣傳的防災避難的預算宣導這整個的費用會不會拿去了大內宣還是洋網軍呢因為我們從這一次花蓮這樣的整個災害的事件來看中央長期防災的"},{"start":12271.9,"end":12286.093,"text":"體系可能已經不足了尤其是演習教育落後的一個警訊所以國防部最近也發布了一個叫新版的全民國防手冊說當危機來的時候台灣全民安全的整個指引"},{"start":12286.573,"end":12307.529,"text":"當然未來規劃這個會每一個家家戶戶可能都會拿到這個指引但是然後呢政府到底為了人民做了些什麼什麼是可以有效的提升我們國安的韌性呢所以我們再看一下先進的這些國家其實在面對這整個一連串的複合性的災害不管是減災還有包括整個整備"},{"start":12308.249,"end":12323.437,"text":"都是一條邊的整個治理但是台灣在災防的資訊上面可能是無法整合所以發生的時候經常會讓民眾有時候陷入了生命財產風險的整個的疑慮像這一次的馬太安的艷澀湖的這個悲劇"},{"start":12323.997,"end":12349.557,"text":"可能就是一個非常具體的展現了所以災害防治還有後續的救災還有國土的防衛任性的整個責任絕對是中央政府的責任當然身為負責的執政者就應該為老百姓備妥這一整個的準備而不是讓人民在災難來的時候才學會怎麼樣去應對而且不可以讓老百姓"},{"start":12350.157,"end":12379.277,"text":"真的連避難所在哪裡都不知道也不知道到時候遇到這種情況的時候到底要跑到哪裡去躲其實災害是沒有畫面的所以我們也知道當它沒有畫面的時候其實每一個人思考都是不一樣的那院長你知不知道現在全世界這幾年其實在災害的避難的宣導上面也都開始強調所謂的共同圖像因為有一個共同圖像背後才有共同語彙及共同的整個架構"},{"start":12380.117,"end":12394.702,"text":"因為這次我有看協助的花蓮災區的民眾加速整個家園的重建當然本席非常感謝這次國防部有投入全力執行救災其中有看到陸軍司令部首次也一個"},{"start":12395.422,"end":12423.781,"text":"對外公開一個叫做救災神器運用了TAK的部隊的覺知應用套印製的這個整個套件運用了TAK的手機於圖上標會災區的情形提供各級的部隊長及時回饋當前的需求整合救災整個資訊建立救災共同圖像所以我想說院長你知道現在執政團隊的各部會有整合救災或國安的共同圖像嗎因為這個是非常重要的"},{"start":12425.32,"end":12437.211,"text":"跟委員報告我想在我們這一次的韌性特別預算裡面其實就有一個居民共同圖像系統監偵能力案的一個建制所以我們會就海域的部分"},{"start":12496.662,"end":12523.512,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝林益君委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢謝謝好 謝謝好 接下來我們請莊瑞雄委員請質詢葉元之委員請準備謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":12525.803,"end":12554.37,"text":"我們財政部莊部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢各位好院長好 辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近"},{"start":12556.267,"end":12572.481,"text":"460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合"},{"start":12573.402,"end":12601.028,"text":"台灣的汽車產業的一個需要我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足遲遲沒有辦法去打開"},{"start":12603.108,"end":12625.915,"text":"我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張"},{"start":12631.055,"end":12648.471,"text":"第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣"},{"start":12649.845,"end":12666.571,"text":"價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是進口車你就必須要被課重稅"},{"start":12667.691,"end":12682.319,"text":"然後呢 我們的國產車呢 我也不敢說它的品質弱厚但是相對去做比較 從安全科技 甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話 比較有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢 在九月三十號 幾天前而已嘛 三天前而已"},{"start":12690.681,"end":12699.89,"text":"國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台"},{"start":12711.857,"end":12741.007,"text":"本身要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星"},{"start":12741.667,"end":12757.416,"text":"所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長 莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾% 17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟"},{"start":12770.137,"end":12795.324,"text":"你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子"},{"start":12796.172,"end":12821.062,"text":"很可惜本期要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車他其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項半導體我們的強項電池管理我們的強項晶片我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合"},{"start":12821.681,"end":12824.764,"text":"假設我們都輸國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車就是像一部行動電腦一樣"},{"start":12837.028,"end":12862.373,"text":"晶片在哪搞 半導體在哪搞 電池關聯 我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅 升這個17.5% 乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講 第一個不公平第二個我們的產業 我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣 有一個國際上的一個大品牌"},{"start":12863.66,"end":12885.979,"text":"我不曉得部長你的看法或者院長你的看法先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話他是貨物稅是0%"},{"start":12888.841,"end":12907.92,"text":"然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用是 我的意思就是說 國務長"},{"start":12910.797,"end":12934.373,"text":"所謂的國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人"},{"start":12934.753,"end":12937.415,"text":"所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望"},{"start":12950.738,"end":12973.596,"text":"過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要"},{"start":12974.497,"end":12974.917,"text":"應該我們整個國家"},{"start":12995.615,"end":13021.789,"text":"我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些 應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人 還要跟這些人輸人漏氣 兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢"},{"start":13026.804,"end":13050.69,"text":"我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全它其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的"},{"start":13052.2,"end":13070.599,"text":"經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期"},{"start":13072.751,"end":13086.032,"text":"1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了"},{"start":13086.892,"end":13115.908,"text":"那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放零當然要符合資格啊放零你既然要放零國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林廠合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放零可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放零那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那"},{"start":13117.284,"end":13142.8,"text":"大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了"},{"start":13145.177,"end":13162.836,"text":"趕走了以後呢 接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民 以前我們說的那一代 我們做的那一代沒有太多錢了 他有什麼叫做登記然後第二個 228的陰影又在"},{"start":13163.868,"end":13174.622,"text":"那政府既然都已經三階段了符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田"},{"start":13176.052,"end":13204.96,"text":"他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放領給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放領啊所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義以政府你把人家收走了"},{"start":13205.742,"end":13226.581,"text":"然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地放領稻西部的有南部的也有有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看工有地占最多89% 將近98%的就是花東"},{"start":13230.478,"end":13256.165,"text":"山林嘛 保安林嘛 占了一大堆嘛那是國有 沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好 一定有我們現在大南澳不就我們大南澳要去示範重啟了嗎本席倒認為啊"},{"start":13257.947,"end":13280.906,"text":"第一個平等原則大家都叫你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有花蓮沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有"},{"start":13281.946,"end":13284.888,"text":"魏芳林的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計那是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長"},{"start":13294.977,"end":13313.875,"text":"你起來之後 當然要去示範那對其他的縣市是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年你說你達到長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素 喊卡的"},{"start":13314.796,"end":13334.849,"text":"是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義關於大南澳這件事件"},{"start":13335.393,"end":13358.451,"text":"因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個"},{"start":13359.571,"end":13384.402,"text":"要完全貫徹土地正義就要全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通歷的一些盤點"},{"start":13385.422,"end":13412.034,"text":"跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊"},{"start":13413.374,"end":13438.948,"text":"這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個就變成政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在"},{"start":13450.83,"end":13453.253,"text":"好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":13460.61,"end":13483.023,"text":"现在我们在一场二楼旁听的来自世界华商总会有澳洲 巴拉圭 日本 英国 西班牙还有印尼 加拿大我们热情的掌声欢迎各位再接下来我们上午最后一位质询的委员叶元之委员 请质询"},{"start":13493.186,"end":13496.349,"text":"主席好 麻煩請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備選葉文豪卓院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這一萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很"},{"start":13522.75,"end":13539.756,"text":"這個委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這一萬塊沒有可發可不發不是或者是說沒有說這個可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣"},{"start":13540.296,"end":13567.753,"text":"我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了 冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦認知作戰或統戰啦講得好像領這個一萬塊錢"},{"start":13569.514,"end":13593.735,"text":"很不堪啊剛剛也委員之意我們舉債再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實"},{"start":13594.716,"end":13609.553,"text":"就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣"},{"start":13610.314,"end":13637.702,"text":"那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你編了很多其他的預算之前我們是希望不舉債舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關你有的是講話的態度的問題遙控飛機 冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個現在時程上面因為既然要發了我覺得大家就很期待"},{"start":13638.662,"end":13664.646,"text":"執政上如果立法院10月中過去可以送出立法院我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難因為早上回答是比較有困難現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候"},{"start":13665.971,"end":13693.677,"text":"11月中以前一定會發這是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後一個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效是一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發"},{"start":13694.617,"end":13721.67,"text":"這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是四月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛"},{"start":13722.17,"end":13742.336,"text":"本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久"},{"start":13743.513,"end":13760.484,"text":"演繹完全不影響這個程序我9月11號你後來是演繹之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取"},{"start":13761.925,"end":13788.366,"text":"因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項"},{"start":13789.619,"end":13810.354,"text":"但是實際上你們兩個在搖頭所以根本不可能嘛所以我就講話 在院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得 哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是原意啊但是我們建議很多都有建設性啊謝謝委員好 再來我想問一下預算的問題"},{"start":13815.098,"end":13830.716,"text":"順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱在那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放"},{"start":13831.957,"end":13832.778,"text":"專案方式是不是"},{"start":13860.778,"end":13874.984,"text":"對 但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理"},{"start":13876.505,"end":13891.6,"text":"我們現在有一站式的服務健保卡 身分證 郵局還有農會如果需要這個證件我們有一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好 謝謝再來我問一下有關於經濟任性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下這個780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的"},{"start":13902.694,"end":13925.27,"text":"支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是底牌根據什麼依據先部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%那時候是用高那現在780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右"},{"start":13931.038,"end":13939.102,"text":"用30% 就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎"},{"start":13950.947,"end":13965.251,"text":"也不一定 因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利因為你當初是比較高估因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為報告委員因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有其他的可能"},{"start":13973.653,"end":13990.405,"text":"匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個"},{"start":13991.789,"end":14009.2,"text":"因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎"},{"start":14012.848,"end":14026.439,"text":"包委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚 聚落 Cluster我知道 我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案"},{"start":14027.386,"end":14042.467,"text":"就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案沒有 我們是跟美方表達就是跟美方表達產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落"},{"start":14043.187,"end":14067.934,"text":"這個我知道啦 我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛 那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆咧不要拖時間啦 因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為它還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那麼多公司它的投資資本是有限的"},{"start":14068.514,"end":14093.805,"text":"過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會 我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下 我還沒有講等一下 等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點"},{"start":14094.885,"end":14122.194,"text":"因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嘛報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他所以才形成一個那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊"},{"start":14123.171,"end":14151.053,"text":"沒有 他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個曾經有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金這是有的"},{"start":14151.812,"end":14170.602,"text":"這是我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標"},{"start":14172.694,"end":14190.267,"text":"那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長打斷你這麼害怕我講喔"},{"start":14192.689,"end":14205.304,"text":"不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果行程規格飆的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是"},{"start":14206.513,"end":14224.503,"text":"羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價是不是會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是 我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆 小麥等等一些情況那個是我們"},{"start":14225.604,"end":14237.989,"text":"食料 我們養豬的飼料部長 可不可以針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎"},{"start":14240.168,"end":14265.013,"text":"我跟委員報告 因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分 整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會連人的採購可能會降低他的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對 他反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的"},{"start":14265.513,"end":14291.16,"text":"一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會 這個是聯合採購可能會有那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高"},{"start":14292,"end":14309.557,"text":"那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是"},{"start":14311.262,"end":14339.959,"text":"兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方的錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可致用的是變比較多啊"},{"start":14340.259,"end":14356.425,"text":"多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西"},{"start":14359.765,"end":14380.021,"text":"這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面"},{"start":14381.623,"end":14410.056,"text":"那年度預算裡面有沒有邊強化獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方"},{"start":14418.662,"end":14440.657,"text":"好好 謝謝好 謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":14444.246,"end":14457.749,"text":"不過因為我們上午質詢到此為止下午兩點繼續開會進行特別預算報告的質詢謝謝王玉明委員也謝謝魯明哲委員陪同我們一起參與今天特別預算的報告我們現在休息"},{"start":19727.779,"end":19734.224,"text":"法院會現在繼續開會進行預算報告之諮詢我們請王委員定語諮詢"},{"start":19753.936,"end":19757.45,"text":"謝副院長 麻煩我們總統太左院長請左院長備詢"},{"start":19770.292,"end":19789.032,"text":"現在國務防忙內有風災、雁塞湖外有國際挑戰還有周邊的中國的威脅跟侵擾那我們今天在審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案法案通過了現在進行預算的審查"},{"start":19790.034,"end":19808.606,"text":"所以就這幾個問題我大家請教那有相關部會要上來說明也可以自己上來補充啦我第一個先回到我們這個預算的源頭其實是因為川普總統的對等關稅開始的那我們知道鄭麗君副院長剛去美國一趟然後又已經回來了"},{"start":19809.306,"end":19832.537,"text":"那目前美國政府因為撥款不足的問題聯邦政府關門導致美國聯邦雇員75萬人暫時停擺所以我要請教一下就院長的了解目前我們對美關稅已經接近在最後關頭了在最後的一個談判的階段會不會被這個美國政府聯邦政府關門所影響把達成協議達成結論的時程往後延"},{"start":19838.134,"end":19854.105,"text":"好 謝謝委員目前台美雙方已經完成了所謂最後的技術性的磋商但是最後那個總結性會議達成協議部分還沒有完成因為達成技術性磋商之後是個別回去再做一些細部"},{"start":19854.798,"end":19881.59,"text":"做一些審視他最重要是最後一個總結會議總結會議一定他我們看過去美方跟其他各國的總結會議都有一定差不多模式這個模式現在我們也無法預測美國方面因為他國內這些變化情況但是我們認為一個政府不會長時間的停滯下來他們曾經最久關門時間是三十四五天不過我問的問題就你目前掌握的狀況"},{"start":19882.751,"end":19906.122,"text":"我們對美技術性磋商就這一趟去大概談完了接下來叫最後磋商 最後談判那因為它有個期限我們一般預估在10月份應該要有個結論了那這個10月份要結論牽涉到台灣國內太多的產業太多的勞工了所以我剛才問的問題是就目前行政院掌握的狀況美國聯邦政府暫停暫時停止營業 關門"},{"start":19907.944,"end":19922.221,"text":"連台灣的AIT官方Email不能用網頁不能用然後有些業務要暫停對美的談判的部分的期程預計十月份要有結論這件事情會不會因為這個美國聯邦政府暫時關門往後延"},{"start":19926.206,"end":19944.405,"text":"據政府院長回來的消息雙方最後並沒有談到一個最後的期限但是雙方都有共識盡快的達成這個期限那我認為現在十月初如果用十月底來做一個想像的話那足以讓雙方政府在最後這個階段做更多的準備達成最後的協議那我們也朝這個方式來進行"},{"start":19946.072,"end":19966.742,"text":"院長你剛才那段話我可不可以詮釋你也期待在十月底前要有結論我認為我們的產業界跟國人都很期待趕快定案下來落點落在哪裡我們的整個產業支持的方案可以全力的實施就我從美方的相關人員聽起來也預計在十月份應該要有結論希望是如此本席才會擔心說進戶關門啊"},{"start":19969.964,"end":19988.656,"text":"聯邦政府關門而且還要裁員幾千個人會不會因為這個跟這個不相干的事物反而導致我們騎乘往後拖延這一點可能要多加關注我們除了自己趕快把我們的整個最後協商的所有的方案完成之外我們也祝福美方政府盡快恢復正常"},{"start":19989.636,"end":20008.102,"text":"是他們的內政問題由他們來解決所以我們目前行政院期待的是在10月底前有關對美關稅能夠達成最後的結論希望如此我們也期待鄭麗君副院長作為有關談判的總負責人我們希望很多訊息在"},{"start":20009.684,"end":20036.68,"text":"違反彼此默契因為跟美國跟各國談判都一樣雙方有約定要保密就是要保密不保密反而傷害國家的利益但在可以的情形下盡量讓國人瞭解目前進度特別是對中小企業以美國為主要市場的這些產業他有備料的問題他有產能閒置的問題他有我把準備什麼要開始訂單這個部分我會建議行政院跟"},{"start":20037.14,"end":20048.239,"text":"我們的財經相關部門能夠透明的請一下盡量讓業者跟相關的人能夠了解情形是的 我們一直在這樣做產業座談當中也告訴他們一些應該因應的方式"},{"start":20049.025,"end":20072.612,"text":"那接下來我要請教是我們當然在審特別預算我們了解特別預算是在預算法裡面第83條要嘛就國防緊急設施或戰爭第二個是國家經濟重大變故這個算是我們這個特別算有兩條大概是第一條第二條第三個是重大災變丹納斯那個大概就是屬於第三條大概我們特別預算會用到條文"},{"start":20073.812,"end":20089.123,"text":"一二三條我們都用到了那第四條是不定期或數年一次的重大震勢我真的覺得還好因為曾經國民黨的委員要提案把特別預算的法源全部刪除那時候我們就說千萬不要這樣做"},{"start":20089.603,"end":20115.517,"text":"因為特別預算還是要受立法院的審查監督特別預算還是要有決算報告受審計另外特別預算也不是另外開個禁錮它也不會超過我們的舉債上限它全部都納入的它不是另外開了一個方便的路所以還好特別預算沒有當時在政黨的競爭下被人一時衝動把它拿掉了否則現在很多因應都沒辦法來做"},{"start":20116.337,"end":20141.492,"text":"但是基於這四個特別預算在預算法裡面所規定本席看了有關我們國防部這邊請國防部長一併來回答就是說我們在國防部在這一個因應國際情勢的強化國安任性的特別預算案裡面有1132億是跟國防部有關我看了裡面的細項裡面第一大類"},{"start":20142.532,"end":20157.077,"text":"佔了673億大概都是屬於指管 通信 韌信裡面還包含了要建立軍民的COP共同圖像等等這邊佔了一塊另外一塊叫設備更新後時"},{"start":20159.278,"end":20174.631,"text":"戰備我看了裡面是包含了彈藥庫包含了一些軍事設施另外一個是屬於海巡的部分守護海疆保護人民31這裡面包含了這個指管韌性還有軍民共同圖像等等"},{"start":20175.552,"end":20193.705,"text":"我先請教國防部長我們現在管組也上來了就我了解陸軍現在的共同圖像還是屬於局部性的你現在要建立所謂軍民共同圖像你那個名是不是指的是海巡署共同圖像的部分"},{"start":20194.464,"end":20218.776,"text":"主要是跟海巡跟海巡嘛那因為我們陸軍本身的共同圖像還有待更完整現在不能說沒有但要更完整更建立那你這邊花了五億要跟我們自己還在增進當中那我現在跟海巡在建立共同圖像這個會不會有點順序上的問題我們那個共同的圖像是"},{"start":20220.697,"end":20245.346,"text":"我們現在是一個叫做台灣戰術網路TTN就這個台灣戰術網路我們會除了海巡以外我們還有陸軍的雷達海軍的雷達的這些進岸的部分我們為了要增加海域的決志這個部分把它納進來所以不僅陸軍我們海軍當然也要跟海巡要在這個共同圖像下進行相關的執管作業對這個武藝"},{"start":20250.131,"end":20271.358,"text":"在建立所謂的指管系統跟共同圖像就我了解其實這個經費算是遠遠不足所以我是不是可以預計除了在這一個特別預算會看到這一個建立指管任性 治安防護共同圖像我們未來還會看到很多類似的預算因為五億沒辦法建立這個東西"},{"start":20274.042,"end":20286.638,"text":"因為這相關的TDN的部分也就是台灣戰術網路它事實上是從一個戰術的層級會一直在做一個擴張"},{"start":20289.656,"end":20306.863,"text":"那我們將海巡跟陸軍還有海軍的雷達來進入到台灣戰術網路裡面最主要的目的當然就是接收當面的這些雷達所以原來海巡是沒有的原來海巡沒有在台灣戰術裡面剛剛委員問的是說我們就台灣戰術網路還會繼續在"},{"start":20312.345,"end":20333.273,"text":"發展 未來還要再精進我們將比較不屬於機敏的部分所以海巡得到的權限是我們把機敏以外的可以跟他們共用就對了我們會跟他共享所以我五分鐘要給管主委也要給顧部長來提就是說特別預算必須要有它的急迫性跟必要性"},{"start":20334.173,"end":20355.632,"text":"當然有在野黨在挑戰這一點說你這個預算放到年度預算就好了為什麼要放到特別預算裡面年度預算就能編了這些項目為什麼不放到年度預算我是不是先請顧部長在國防部的立場有關國安任性裡面它的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡"},{"start":20356.711,"end":20371.268,"text":"跟委員報告一下我舉一個彈藥庫作為例子好了我們在過去用作業為指揮來看的話我們的彈藥庫組的設施大概近三年平均一年只能大概編列一億一千多萬元"},{"start":20372.333,"end":20399.151,"text":"我們現在因為有大量的新式武器會進來我們也要有足夠的囤儲所以我們必須要整建這樣這是急迫性急迫性的為什麼不放在年度裡面我另外舉個例子就是說我們的訓場也要快速的整建所以因為因應整個後備戰力的提升還有我們一年級EWE的要即將人會陸續到位"},{"start":20399.631,"end":20428.358,"text":"所以我們一年級的UV也會增加在很快所以我們這個訓場如果按照用年度預算來做整修的話平均一年大概都只能到3億多所以我們現在要全面優化它的話我們總共編到要有40、40億這樣我們快速的能夠所以在顧部長的講法是原來的年度預算在做這些項目金額遠遠不足可能要花很多年才建設完成因為你如果把所有的預算都擺在這個部分"},{"start":20429.378,"end":20438.154,"text":"會排擠到其他的軍頭因為作業的維持會主要在裝備的妥善他一定把裝備的妥善放在優先的項目"},{"start":20439.324,"end":20458.937,"text":"可是裝備的妥善放在優先項目裡他剩下來的餘額就只能夠維持平常的這些會影響到我們維持戰備妥善率的支出必要戰備妥善一定是優先用到作業維持會對不對剩下來有關彈藥的整建還有現場的設施的改建等等的這些就都沒有什麼錢"},{"start":20459.777,"end":20478.708,"text":"所以你剛才說明了必要性跟急迫性尤其事實上二屋戰爭就讓我們看到其實我們的彈藥準備是嚴重不足需要增加儲存量新式彈藥進來如果這些產障沒有蓋起來的話它進來了你的儲放會是一個問題那我剩下時間給管主委我看過你在委員會"},{"start":20480.253,"end":20493.329,"text":"替海巡弟兄們在講這些預算的問題你可不可以用簡單來說明一下在這一個國安任性特別預算裡面海巡這一個預算的部分它的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡"},{"start":20495.238,"end":20516.888,"text":"同樣的如果說海巡它在下個階段的大轉型我們真的要很快的來上路很快的能夠有進度的話那就沒有辦法用公務預算的平滑預算一點一點一點一點慢慢的來累積所以它一定必須像特別預算這樣子讓我們能夠很快的同時騎頭並進"},{"start":20518.909,"end":20543.741,"text":"你在同時投入的東西是什麼以海空一體來講我們是從空中就必須要增加無人載具的全面的部署另外一直到水面我們目前水面的無人載具是完全是零水下也完全是零那麼新的造艦計畫又到了應該要開始下個階段的時候所以從水下 水面"},{"start":20544.421,"end":20558.786,"text":"一直到空中然後從有人到無人我們如果齊頭並進的話它本身就是非常的擁擠那另外就是說即使是情間真的部分我們不只是一重我們必須"},{"start":20559.986,"end":20585.919,"text":"例如我們現在沒有夜視的功能所以我們必須有一層是有夜視的功能另外我們次世代的雷達我們也必須要升級在雷達的這一層能夠到更遠距其實我們目前如果十二海也要推到我們過去幾年看到很多小艇穿越到淡水河口到台中那不是海巡不認真是你的裝備看不見所以你現在急著把這個洞補起來"},{"start":20586.79,"end":20603.18,"text":"對 因為來得太快而且同時來得種類太多元來得襲擾的類型太多元了所以妳認為放在年度預算編列我們沒辦法用年度預算的平滑預算慢慢慢慢去建置那個真的是會來不及"},{"start":20604.16,"end":20618.373,"text":"會來不及而且我請教妳因為今天日本獨賣新聞揭露說台日甚至叫它美國三國之間的海巡將常態性的聯合的演習妳對這個訊息有沒有什麼評論各位委員報告"},{"start":20619.373,"end":20647.803,"text":"因為是獨賣新聞的揭露所以會說的這麼仔細那事實上這個事情發生已經有我們過去幾年跟日本已經有了那這個行動相關的揭露都是從日本那邊來揭露那我們樂於看到說日本更願意積極的去揭露主委 這個訊息其實因為剩30秒這訊息其實過去都已經揭露過了也真的發生了台日或台美聯合的海巡的演習都有"},{"start":20648.943,"end":20670.312,"text":"我現在要請教是 以往演習的地點要嘛就南太 要嘛就日本海周邊台海周邊會不會各位委員報告 我們大概演習是跟南海以及北方我們北方跟日本 南方跟菲律賓台海會不會"},{"start":20678.871,"end":20705.407,"text":"好 謝謝王委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請翁曉琳委員質詢好 謝謝主席 這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":20717.085,"end":20736.496,"text":"今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率"},{"start":20738.078,"end":20754.339,"text":"強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理"},{"start":20755.3,"end":20778.276,"text":"不是有合乎實際的需求所以在這裡我首先想請問院長就是從今年四月份開始川普總統他宣布了實施對等關稅以來到現在已經半年了那麼我們知道這個鄭麗君副院長其實他也帶隊到美國去談判這個至今應該已經談判了五次那麼到目前為止到底有沒有什麼具體的結論"},{"start":20780.146,"end":20806.868,"text":"政府院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在"},{"start":20807.692,"end":20831.174,"text":"這個月內剛剛委員提過我們希望在這個月內他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的訂案下來我想其實大家最關心的還是就說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的"},{"start":20832.191,"end":20856.359,"text":"對等關稅也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅的稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表理念根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%"},{"start":20858.339,"end":20886.984,"text":"但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情"},{"start":20887.624,"end":20914.237,"text":"要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家不管是日本 韓國 歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露"},{"start":20914.837,"end":20929.069,"text":"跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備所以就這個部分來說"},{"start":20930.09,"end":20950.372,"text":"我其實不是很認同現在行政院賴政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講"},{"start":20952.234,"end":20966.992,"text":"那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢"},{"start":20967.936,"end":20995.297,"text":"我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多"},{"start":20996.078,"end":21011.993,"text":"不合理的代價 而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概1000億美金的"},{"start":21021.04,"end":21045.471,"text":"這個這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這部分等未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是讓利了民間的產業我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道的一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會"},{"start":21047.832,"end":21076.299,"text":"質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了臺灣的某些產業的利益我們放心我們都一起把把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到這個實質的這個特別預算書的內容那本期其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡"},{"start":21077.359,"end":21097.452,"text":"因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞"},{"start":21099.013,"end":21117.202,"text":"我想不仅是我看到这样状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表"},{"start":21117.802,"end":21140.221,"text":"在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿"},{"start":21141.602,"end":21164.096,"text":"一字一億我講一字一字千金它是一字千億這個基本上我想對於國人來講沒有辦法接受尤其是我們立法委員我們看了這些預算書之後真的是覺得瞠目結舌要花這麼多的錢可是我們看到的內容卻是非常非常的模糊我們看看教育部好了"},{"start":21165.307,"end":21176.776,"text":"教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億"},{"start":21182.441,"end":21202.475,"text":"但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉"},{"start":21206.618,"end":21231.553,"text":"所以在這個部分我想請教就是各部會計官就是你們有沒有認真去思考到底因應高關稅匯率的變動導致產業經濟衰退這個產業出走人才流失等這些問題有沒有一個具體的更仔細的計畫或是更有建設性的計畫不要忘記我們這次的特別條例它前面一個很重要的一個目標"},{"start":21232.91,"end":21257.145,"text":"或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個呃情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到呃這個行政院基本上就是想要藉機好像把各種想得到的這個"},{"start":21258.086,"end":21275.235,"text":"要錢的名目全部都灌到特別預算裡面而且甚至還想要技術性的回補在2014年度裡面可能刪除掉的一些預算所以就這個部分這種趁火打劫的做法坦白說真的還令人蠻反感的那麼我跟委員報告一下"},{"start":21276.107,"end":21289.485,"text":"如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查"},{"start":21291.277,"end":21314.199,"text":"教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論因為你們的預算報告書裡面這是你們的預算報告將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明我待會還會問到教育部部長先等一下接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎"},{"start":21315.28,"end":21329.725,"text":"相關的發放的作業程序上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了那所以如果說這個特別預算三讀通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎"},{"start":21330.835,"end":21356.305,"text":"上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK 那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好 那接下來我要請教部長教育部部長 政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億"},{"start":21357.685,"end":21377.805,"text":"那麼用來是辦理強化高等教育人才其中100億是補助大專院校的提升校務經營還有採購大學醫院裡面的一些儀器設備及軟體系統另外100億則是補助給大學要延攬出品教師的簽約金還要精進產學合作所以就是加起來是200億"},{"start":21378.746,"end":21397.547,"text":"可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼"},{"start":21398.68,"end":21415.625,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市"},{"start":21416.525,"end":21432.182,"text":"日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好"},{"start":21432.702,"end":21447.682,"text":"可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡面他寫得非常非常出色完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才"},{"start":21448.623,"end":21471.168,"text":"需要培養半導體科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過高教生根計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以我要講的就是說"},{"start":21473.588,"end":21492.177,"text":"講得很詳細 但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有 預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我可以 待會就會公布喔那麼所以呢我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要"},{"start":21492.677,"end":21510.178,"text":"申请200亿的经费如果您是立法委员您会同意吗至少我不会因为我基本上我是一个严谨的人我会严格的去看每一个预算那么当然这个问题其实不仅是发生在教育部其实像劳动部其实有了类似的问题"},{"start":21510.598,"end":21532.538,"text":"那么劳动部在这一次的这个预算特别预算当中支持劳工安定就业的预算其实就编列了高达一百五十亿可是这些支持在这个项目底下他编了十项计划里面有很多的内容都是既有的措施或者是说是在COVID的疫情关系这个相关措施的框架底下他不过是微调"},{"start":21533.238,"end":21550.241,"text":"適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢"},{"start":21551.631,"end":21565.576,"text":"目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工"},{"start":21574.219,"end":21589.25,"text":"失業要幫助他們的就業我想就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來"},{"start":21590.911,"end":21617.348,"text":"那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工不僅是勞動部 海委會 內政部 衛福部都有這樣的狀況衛福部憋了五千萬的獨居老人的關懷服務等等這些其實也都是應該編列在一般性的預算總之現在行政院編列的預算真的太過草率本席希望能夠再把預算內容寫得更清楚一些"},{"start":21620.891,"end":21626.256,"text":"謝謝翁委員也謝謝卓院長我們請下一位陳廷飛委員質詢謝謝副院長我們請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21650.697,"end":21677.654,"text":"政務員好院長因為我在立法院今年邁入第18年我覺得有些還是要講實話而且在整個行政團隊這麼用心編了這個預算特別條例特別預算如果用兩個字草率我覺得這樣是抹煞了所有人的努力而且"},{"start":21678.752,"end":21692.351,"text":"我們也支持任何一個立委你對於預算任何一筆預算有意見有質疑你直接可以發文問我們的行政單位"},{"start":21693.424,"end":21718.196,"text":"而且我們在下個禮拜三就要開始審查三跟四就要審查我們的任性特別預算這個在現場我們就可以提出那如果你認為在文字上不清楚因為你要這麼短的時間確實像教育部兩百億你要很清楚去說明"},{"start":21719.079,"end":21748.306,"text":"也比較難那麼我們請委員可以直接發文給各部會針對各部會所編列的預算一五一十請他們說明清楚那我也要拜託我們院長如果我們各部會真的收到這樣的一個立委辦公室的相關文件我們全部一次把它說清楚講明白"},{"start":21748.933,"end":21766.43,"text":"好的 可以 我也會要求這麼做而且未來如果大家委員有這樣的意見我希望我們各部位未來在編預算的過程當中盡量把它寫的詳細一點那也許他的篇幅會很大會增加委員的負擔我覺得也沒有關係讓大家充分了解我想以後大家要多做這個準備工作院長你說的就對了即使"},{"start":21769.862,"end":21794.963,"text":"國後都不管 既然他需要了解我們就講給他了解否則他用了兩個字草率對我們來講很受傷耶大家在前線拼得這麼辛苦為什麼會有這麼多的感觸因為在這一次風災院長謝謝你們有到第一線可是因為我們的服務員真的太大"},{"start":21796.553,"end":21820.773,"text":"所以大家一時之間會覺得這裡有被關心到那裡沒有被關心到所以有很多不一樣的一個訊息產生所以這就是我們在第一線其實我們在7月7號到了現場的時候一直到所有我們中央部會都有下來的時候我們才慢慢退開"},{"start":21822.034,"end":21848.599,"text":"所以在那個時候我們知道問題在哪裡我們也謝謝院長有接受我們的建議有請我們各部會的公共工程部門下到第一線去協助有些低收入戶中低收入戶邊緣戶都第一時間把他們完成了這個房子的修建謝謝你們但是我必須說"},{"start":21850.205,"end":21874.443,"text":"我們的路還很長院長你親自有去現場看到我們的路還很長從農業從漁業從我們房子的重建復建其實還有產業我們經濟部的中小企業還有相關的廠房其實他們現在都急待幫忙"},{"start":21875.683,"end":21898.759,"text":"所以真的這條路非常的漫長所以我們拜託院長持續給我們更多的關心會的 應該的 會的給我們更多的預算沒有預算我們根本走不出任何一條康莊大道所以這個拜託院長那麼今天的任性的部分其實我比較遺憾的是"},{"start":21900.742,"end":21916.215,"text":"當時候我們在韌性我們有把台電這個部分有放進去可是非常遺憾的最後是被刪掉的兩次第一次是一千億的挹注第二次是兩百億的加強韌性"},{"start":21918.059,"end":21938.426,"text":"這是被刪掉的這是我比較遺憾的所以我們單純只能靠著丹納斯颱風跟728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例這裡面的加強電網的部分目前就只能靠這一條而且在這個部分我們從哪幾個區塊我們總共102億"},{"start":21944.252,"end":21966.419,"text":"其中八十億是遷改供電線路就是我們的地下化然後還有輸配電架空線路因為有些地方是不能地下化的但是我們要加強它的穩固性起碼不要風一來真的 當時候仗著這麼多的電感"},{"start":21967.944,"end":21986.632,"text":"然後一次倒塌整個沿海地帶所以現在這個是我們現在必須做的重中之重所以我們在這一次我們的風災特別條例特別預算裡面我們有從台1線在台南台1線台17線台19線台20線"},{"start":21989.966,"end":22016.722,"text":"南21線173線道這幾條主要的所謂的主幹道因為我們現在從主幹道一直做進來主幹道如果沒做的話這次就是全部倒塌的都是主幹道才會增加了修復的時間還有困難度所以我們這一次我們總共在特別預算風災特別預算15億台南15億"},{"start":22018.263,"end":22045.694,"text":"可是這15億你知道嗎我們做的只有部分只有部分然後我們原本期待再韌性還可以再加強一批可是被刪掉了那麼在我們明年度的預算我整個問了一遍院長你知道在這個部分如果依照電纜地下化在明年度的預算只有多少嗎"},{"start":22048.193,"end":22062.241,"text":"應該是沒有特別特別做電纜地下化的預算明年度的預算沒有沒有三億跟過去一樣沒有特別所以我們在風災的特別條例當中編了這些錢就是因為我看到"},{"start":22063.103,"end":22087.952,"text":"三千多個的電感都搞 三個高壓電塔也倒了那這個完全是一個風災帶來的新的多的而且嚴重的傷害跟原來的年度預算是沒有辦法把它涵蓋的所以就編了這個預算那我們也認為不夠當初如果編多一點也許大家另外一個討論但是我們是何時來編沒有想到我們在任性裡面我們希望至少你給他多一點的錢讓他來補結果還是被刪掉那我想"},{"start":22088.772,"end":22105.328,"text":"我們除了這102億之外明年我們想辦法來做先期的只要它不是易淹水的不是土質鬆軟的不是土質下限的地方該做的我們至少先來規劃院長這個很重要我為什麼今天這麼樣的沉痛因為"},{"start":22106.513,"end":22126.219,"text":"沒有電纜地消耗這一次其實因為風災我們所有台電所有的同仁們都很辛苦第一時間調了所有全國的工班都到了我們的災區但是我們當時候就是臨時性而且以最快的速度讓大家都有電"},{"start":22127.219,"end":22146.099,"text":"可是我們很擔心像現在每次跟我們講說颱風要來了你知道嗎我們都到每一家廟宇走到哪裡拜到哪裡拜託不要再讓我們的颱風造成我們台南在這樣子的一個災區二次的傷害"},{"start":22146.92,"end":22163.91,"text":"因為他們還沒有完全復原所以我今天會特別拜託院長的事我們這一次因為特別條例風災特別條例看到了我們台南這12個災區的一個狀況所以呢我們給了我們15億從這幾個主幹線可是真的不夠真的不夠那剛剛院長也說了"},{"start":22176.24,"end":22193.707,"text":"對 沒有 我是說我們台南台南是15億 全部是80億對 全部80億 我們台南是15億已經比例比較高了對 已經比例比較高但是你看我們比例比較高還是不夠"},{"start":22194.807,"end":22214.593,"text":"所以我們期待的是我們的任性被刪掉了我們的工部門的年度預算還是不能來做這樣的一個編列因為你不進去因為這個東西一定是要用特別預算所以我們希望我們一定要想一個辦法"},{"start":22215.546,"end":22241.968,"text":"要怎麼樣在這個韌性電網當中韌性電網絕對不是只有我們現在在談的這幾樣說加強輸變電線路變壓器還有建置變電所線路電網措施離岸風電併網還有強化各地供電負載智慧電表換裝不是只有這幾個"},{"start":22243.663,"end":22254.082,"text":"我們的韌性電網其實是有一個很重要的長期性原來我們的規劃是超高壓的部分那個本來就五千多億"},{"start":22255.868,"end":22274.993,"text":"比較細的就是這個102億這個也有那中間這一塊是更需要的所以我們變在韌性那個地方那非常可惜的是在特別條例的時候就已經被刪除了所以我們一定要思考說到底我們這個被韌性刪掉的這200億我們該怎麼辦"},{"start":22277.887,"end":22300.863,"text":"或許他們沒有在災區他們不知道或許他們沒有看到每一支電桿每一支電桿這樣瞬間倒閉的那種恐怖或許他們沒有在第一線看到災民沒有電沒有水的一個狀況或許他們沒有辦法感同身受可是我們不行"},{"start":22301.764,"end":22325.365,"text":"我們一定要很清楚這是一個全國性的問題這次發生在台南下一次要發生在哪裡我們不知道因為現在是極端氣候沒有人可以跟天去比因為我們只有做到萬全的準備來等待就像"},{"start":22326.496,"end":22350.317,"text":"拜總統常講的我們要做萬全的準備我們要事先做預防我們要事先做好讓大家可以有提醒的效果那麼發生的時候才知道我們該怎麼辦從中央到地方都是如此因為第一線的"},{"start":22351.223,"end":22371.601,"text":"公務人員地方政府中央政府如果沒有清楚知道發生問題我們該有什麼SOP那請問我要怎麼去協助我們的災民去做相關的一個配合所以我覺得這是現實性的問題沒有人"},{"start":22372.95,"end":22384.302,"text":"敢跟天去比賽我們只有靠自己所以院長我們這被刪的200億電任性的部分怎麼辦"},{"start":22386.42,"end":22410.445,"text":"好報告委員這個部分既然是在旦那次颱風之後我們發覺實際的需要雖然現在目前的預算看不出來有他除了這筆預算之外除了這81億之外102億之外我們來想辦法未來的年度把它優先把它列進來我也請部長能夠把這個列為重點怎麼樣剛剛說過不是一煙水的不是地層下陷不是土質鬆軟只要是迎風面的地方我們都應該全面來檢討優先來做"},{"start":22412.245,"end":22438.364,"text":"以後的預算把它表現出來而且院長我們就直接我們不要設一個說我未來要加強我們就直接跟他講我們就要做電纜地下化這個管線的一個調整所以如果誰敢擋那以後他不要編他的縣市不要編他的縣市不要因為他認為不重要但我們認為重要"},{"start":22439.839,"end":22450.159,"text":"來自災區經過這樣一路一路走過來災民很辛苦所以院長這個部分請把它點名"},{"start":22452.195,"end":22478.684,"text":"點名我們今天就是要針對這個部分去做好萬全的準備因為我們不能再容忍有一次這麼樣的一個迎風面的颱風然後把所有的電線桿都吹倒了今天發生在中南部下次難道不會發生在中北部嗎一定誰都預測不了所以我們就要把預算編好做好"},{"start":22480.844,"end":22493.616,"text":"這樣子才能做到讓人民安心讓人民有感才知道我們的錢花到哪裡所以院長你記不記得你去看了曾文熙排水17年"},{"start":22496.241,"end":22518.847,"text":"17年耶你看到的是最後一里路但是我們努力了17年我們不希望我們不希望這當中我們送了多少次便當我們淹了多少次水到了這一次才沒有我們一樣在電纜的部分電纜地下化我們一定要有決心要做到好做到滿好不好"},{"start":22519.147,"end":22532.855,"text":"好的 謝謝委員 我們往朝這個方向會全力的努力啦這是請部長一定要未來的年度把它列為一個重點我們逐步的來最優先地方來開始實施做好 謝謝 謝謝院長 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請廖先祥委員質詢"},{"start":22557.126,"end":22580.022,"text":"謝謝副院長 一樣邀請我們卓院長卓院長請備詢經濟部也可以先陪同一下幫忙一下經濟部部長我就先講 院長這一次對美關稅談判最大的戰場其實一開始都一直聚焦在半導體業我們一開始是認為對等關稅要全面的談好"},{"start":22581.122,"end":22592.668,"text":"那請問一下院長這個年初台積電宣佈要對在投資1000億美金的一個投資設廠那目前我們的投審會收到了申請嗎"},{"start":22596.303,"end":22616.944,"text":"你說額外的那個部分就是650加1000的那個1000所以這1000還沒有正式的申請所以短期內應該還不會過去我想請教一下因為其實剛剛部長也有一再的重申最近新聞講的這個晶片55分對不對這個議題我們重申我們沒有答應這件事情也沒有討論這件事情"},{"start":22617.364,"end":22639.476,"text":"那我請教一下我們有沒有稍微的統計或計算過如果我們的台積電年初獎的那1000億投資進去了加原本的650億那它在美國的投資量能它的那個年生產量在我們以高階的這個5奈米以下的一個產量來講的話那未來它會跟台灣的比重會是多少你們有沒有統計過"},{"start":22643.054,"end":22660.948,"text":"這個牽涉到他要幾年才能完成這個我們現在台灣已經確定台灣已經確定要建了現在已經有一些已經確定在建了還沒生產的這些量能有多少那未來如果說1650億美金在美國落地之後會有多少我想這應該大概都可以算得出來有沒有統計過"},{"start":22662.196,"end":22678.062,"text":"我們那時候大概有初估台積電公佈以後將來在美國設廠應該是我記得到2030年還三幾年的時候大概還有80%對20%這樣的一個情況5奈米以下喔"},{"start":22678.872,"end":22693.598,"text":"垂步的不是低階的我們不用看我們只在乎高階的但是先進製程在國內也會持續的我就在乎先進製程在台灣的比例台灣跟美國的比例因為院長一再重申55是不會但實際上你們有沒有算過"},{"start":22695.132,"end":22710.148,"text":"剛剛部長已經談過了我們國內也會增加那你就可以算你們可以算對不對時程還沒有定所以沒有辦法在這個所以你們去計算一下我們在這裡也不要算這麼清楚你們計算一下如果1650億的美金在美國落地投資之後"},{"start":22711.149,"end":22740.622,"text":"台灣未來規劃的產能有多少我們希望先進製程台美雙邊的比例有多少可以計算出來讓我們國人安心報告委員那也證實了這個院長你講的沒有五十五十這件事情數字一攤開來大家都幸福嗎報告委員台積電是在美國大概是五座台灣大概是十座以上實際算這邊也算不清楚啦好不好我們事後算算清楚讓我們國人知道一下這個比例大概會是多少好不好這應該算得出來吧"},{"start":22742.246,"end":22766.477,"text":"好 謝謝另外這次的50-50大家很關心50-50吳院長說不可能對不對這是我們不可能接受的一個條件我們說我們沒有討論過也不會答應也不可能答應如果說美國真的有挑起這個議題的話我們能夠接受的最低的限度以高階親民來講的話你們能夠容忍多少"},{"start":22767.455,"end":22788.596,"text":"這是談判的過程跟談判裡面的細節我不宜在這裡跟委員所以你們只能答應說不會五十但是五十多少以下你們不知道我們不會去討論幾比幾的問題是廠商有訂單這是美方的想法就是譬如說台積電他確定那邊有訂單他也願意去投資政府的角色是如何協助他"},{"start":22789.116,"end":22808.873,"text":"能夠順利而且這個就是一個客觀的公開數據提早讓我們的國人知道沒關係如果說院長認為這個是談判機密的話不願意提前講我們至少知道說你的底線是50絕對不會放但是比50還多遠這一點就你們後續可能可能才會我們會以國家的利益跟產業的利益為優先沒關係院長沒辦法說也沒關係我不會強求謝謝"},{"start":22813.116,"end":22827.814,"text":"接下來就是我們這次的特別預算當然很多的委員提到說可能明目是不是我們實際相符我想很多人討論過了如果說其實我是把它想做站在你們角度看"},{"start":22828.794,"end":22854.145,"text":"這可以當作一個擴大內需任何在國內的投資對經濟一定都有幫助如果說在這樣子的角度再看的話對國內的經濟一定有幫助那我可不可以跟請院長能夠承諾我們所有這五千多億的預算無論是在未來的採購或者是投資是不是都能夠保證讓我們台灣我們本國的廠商來承攬這我們有辦法做到"},{"start":22856.528,"end":22870.713,"text":"對 比如說我們支持產業方案每一分錢都是用在我們企業界的補助就是國內採購包括你一些可能一些經濟部的那當然就是在國內不只經濟部包括可能國防部 海巡這些設備的採購有沒有辦法優先的來選擇國內的廠商"},{"start":22874.915,"end":22899.133,"text":"能不能保障 因為這才有到促進經濟的一個效果吧我們能不能做到這樣的承諾國防部的確是在地承諾這跟你經濟部沒關係啊 我知道是不是我們的方向 你能不能做這樣的承諾我們5500億我們盡力把這些投資的項目讓我們國內的廠商賺因為前幾天我們的總統也說了嘛希望讓造船業多一些利潤嘛那當然我們希望不只造船業嘛我們5500億的一個"},{"start":22902.848,"end":22918.258,"text":"這個經費全數都能夠讓我們國內的廠商來賺這樣子的一個承諾或者目標你能不能承諾跟委員報告我想國防部的部分因為占到1130億所以我想可以跟委員承諾我們這一次特別預算都會用在國內的直通跟營造謝謝國防部所以一定會擴大內需的產能謝謝 謝謝國防部"},{"start":22922.472,"end":22937.901,"text":"那我不曉得其他的部分海巡其實也不少嘛或者其他部會其實一些農業部這些一定是國內啦這個我了解啦那海巡也答應了嘛對不對那個海委會嘛對所以我們原則上這5500億應該都是用在我們國內嘛"},{"start":22944.58,"end":22958.066,"text":"各位委員報告就是說除非那個裝備我們必須是非常靈敏度非常高的而且在全世界國內生產不來的是輔導不來的否則原則上都是輔導國內的廠商優先的來做"},{"start":22960.723,"end":22983.883,"text":"我們會努力朝這個方向因為擴大內需也是我們其中一個我想這應該也是我們行政院的目標吧當然是 我們對於本土的產業實力的來致當然是用盡各種方法原則上都希望能夠讓我們國家的廠商來賺原則上當然是如此 謝謝我們的院長那既然這樣子的投資都是國內的廠商來承攬 促進經濟的話"},{"start":22985.792,"end":23009.013,"text":"我們的主計總數大概有預測明年的經濟成長率大概是2.81我想這個評估應該是不包含5500億的特別的預算應該是不包含因為預算還沒通過我們有沒有評估過因為我每次在普發現金或者是發消費券的時候都會評估說對國內的經濟成長率的幫助有多少或者是說對GDP的"},{"start":23010.254,"end":23024.64,"text":"我們有沒有評估過這5500億因為普發一萬的部分應該有評估過好像佔GDP的0.5%其餘的部分對我們國家的一個經濟的成長有多少的幫助這一點我不曉得我們行政院有沒有算過"},{"start":23026.938,"end":23054.302,"text":"特別預算通過之後我會請主計總署再詳細說明有沒有算過他要更精細的算那應該他目前都有做整年度的沒有算就趕快算嘛有我們有初估啦那國會會他是評估是大概是0.415的一個成長百分點那我們評估的話大概0.65百分點好那就是我們就希望說錢花下去我們知道效果嘛所以說這個我們主計總署的原則上的預估大概是0.45的一個比例"},{"start":23055.128,"end":23061.014,"text":"到時候大家再來一起檢視我們的成效另外我再請問一下比較細的就是我們的農業部這次有編列了190億的預算"},{"start":23075.283,"end":23102.509,"text":"原則上大概180多億都是對國內的團體機關獎補助農業部會編列這麼高的預算其實我當然開心了我的選區內大概有七個農運會的團體我當然是感謝但是我想問的是農業部編這樣的預算的原因是不是我們已經打算開放美國的農業產品進來我們才會編列這麼高的預算來做因應你們是不是做這樣子的準備我們在編這樣的預算的時候是針對"},{"start":23103.751,"end":23105.085,"text":"那時候的出口的"},{"start":23105.836,"end":23134.599,"text":"那個稅額是32%然後後來降到10%又提升到20%在這樣的一個Range之內我們也評估了我們出口的品項有哪一些受到影響那這些影響裡面怎麼樣做金融的支持怎麼樣做產業的提升所以這190是現況嗎對 是現在目前的一個情況如果說未來對美的這個農業農業產品有多一些開放的話我們農業部應該會有另外的措施我可以這樣理解嗎"},{"start":23135.697,"end":23150.209,"text":"我想我們現在目前在處理的其實出口美國也會跟我們國內的市場會有一些互動所以未來如果說關稅最後確認了以後那我們會看實際的情況之下我們再去做相關的預算的調整"},{"start":23150.899,"end":23175.425,"text":"好 所以是191是依照現況那如果說多開放的話會再評估要不要增加 這樣是這樣的理解對 如果說夠的話我們就不會那不夠的話我想我們會循程序來我們會看農業的這個直接的衝擊無論是進口或出口的業者受到什麼樣的衝擊農業部都會很詳實的去把它評估出來那麼我們會從這個預算當中率先來執行好 謝謝院長 謝謝餘部長"},{"start":23176.565,"end":23192.089,"text":"接下來裡面也是比較細一點的就是我們因應美國關稅分散風險是大家最近在講的多增加東協或者是增加歐盟的一個出口的比例所以我們大概有編了10億的經費是強化雙邊經貿關係韌性其中10億裡面當然每一項大概我寫的"},{"start":23198.63,"end":23206.655,"text":"我覺得寫得有點籠統啦但至少有個方向出來但其中有4億的經費他大概是編所謂的這個"},{"start":23208.447,"end":23237.475,"text":"出訪或是邀請國外的團體來台灣這樣的一個經費抱歉 站在行政院的立場抱歉 站在我們立法院的立場我們會擔心這4億元的一個經費會不會變成一個綁裝的一個旅遊團我們怎麼樣能夠確保這4億的經費能夠有實際的效益消敏我們立法院或者是民眾的疑慮我們那是辦國內展覽比如說工具機展邀請國外的買主來台灣是這個"},{"start":23239.565,"end":23260.99,"text":"訪團呢訪團也是一樣是工協會提出來我們設台灣館因為這件事情是在編預算而已嘛對不對那後續怎麼執行那當然各方有各界的一個想像那我想後續的資訊的公開是非常重要的或者是每一次的出訪或者是每一次的邀請它的成效是多少"},{"start":23262.734,"end":23282.602,"text":"他那個都是補助廠商的有沒有辦法來做一個完整的揭露可以啊可以啊 會有完整的揭露補助每一個工協會去辦什麼展覽或者是我們台灣辦什麼 買什麼客物來的因為這4億的預算比很多部會加起來都還多啦好不好 所以我們才會特別看這筆預算那未來是不是部長也承諾"},{"start":23283.822,"end":23303.892,"text":"這些預算未來都會有一些政府公開的一些程序讓大家了解它的功能是什麼我們海外參展除了大的廠商之外它有能力設它自己的館之外中小企業沒辦法所以我們都弄一個比較大的台灣館讓中小企業可以在那邊展覽它的產品這個錢就是要用在這個地方"},{"start":23304.754,"end":23320.589,"text":"好沒關係你們只要願意公開後續做一個資訊充分的揭露的話那我想後續大家一起來檢驗好不好謝謝那接下來還有一點就是我們這一次的特別預算有特別明訂就是這次的特別預算不受預算法的62條跟63條的一個限制對不對"},{"start":23321.784,"end":23340.743,"text":"也就是可以留用其實我覺得這個是立法院對於行政院的一個高度的尊重但是我們在裡面的預算也看到了一些可能媒體的一些廣告費用院長應該也知道這是我們立法院這一屆非常關注的項目最後審議的結果我們還不知道如果有一些預算被砍的話"},{"start":23341.943,"end":23357.093,"text":"那我想院長你會不會去用這個不適用62跟63條的不得流用的規定直接去把它補回來因為你還有一個200億的扣打還是說你會尊重立法院如果說我們真的要砍什麼預算你要流進來你會再尊重我們立法院"},{"start":23357.873,"end":23379.909,"text":"後續的200億我們一直強調需要的時候我們才會提出來我們不會這樣不珍惜國家的資源因為立法院如果提出來的時候有法律上的限制或准許我們怎樣使用原本63條的規定是被砍過的預算不能留用嘛指定項目有刪除的不能不得留用嘛但是這一次我們把這個條拿掉了你們可是可以留用的就算我們砍了你們還是可以用只要科目還在的話"},{"start":23380.811,"end":23403.666,"text":"但我想確認的是未來我們如果說真的有做一些刪減的話你們會不會尊重立法院如果說真的要在特別的項目增加的話來做一些知會立法院不管是知會立法院也好還是學立法院的同意我第一個希望我第一個會要求我們這200億的預備的預算是需要的時候我們提出來不需要的時候我們寧願就把它那另外就是我也拜託"},{"start":23405.406,"end":23430.442,"text":"大院裡面各委員會能夠合理的去審查預算真的需要的多留下來多留下來 院長我想6263這條放寬是立法院對行政院的一個尊重我們會珍惜這樣的我們尊重那也希望說未來要做一些流用的時候行政院也務必要尊重立法院我們會珍惜這樣的空白授權我們尊重那還有一點時間啦這個媒體朋友請我幫忙問的啦今天立法院這個內政部長麻煩一下"},{"start":23432.762,"end":23460.163,"text":"今天立法院好像有很多媒體同仁說進來的時候有一些過往沒有的一些刑事局的同仁有在立法院做一些進來我們立法院或者是做一些檢查那可不可以簡單說明一下狀況有這樣的狀況嗎 剛剛講的什麼狀況刑事局除了平常的保安人員之外刑事局的同仁也有來我們立法院"},{"start":23461.297,"end":23476.525,"text":"沒有耶沒有嗎我沒有這樣的訊息因為是有些媒體想要跟您請問一下如果沒有的話我沒有這樣的訊息那我們後期再做一些確認好不好好 謝謝謝謝廖委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請鍾嘉斌委員質詢"},{"start":23491.71,"end":23517.315,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列席政府機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請卓院長請卓院長備詢還有我們衛福部的石部長交通部的陳部長石部長還有陳部長請備詢總委員好院長好兩位部長好交通部長今天沒有備詢好 那麼"},{"start":23519.704,"end":23543.481,"text":"院長部長今天我們是這個特別預算的是因應國際情勢還要強化經濟社會以及我們的民生國安韌性那我特別重視民生國安韌性因為在我的認知當中只要完善防救災就是提高我們的強化民生國安的韌性所以底下就這一次花蓮的防救災來跟您請教"},{"start":23544.341,"end":23570.804,"text":"首先我們再回顧一下院長在今年8月10號的院會當中我曾經針對8月10的風災有發生過需要用無人機送藥的事情不知道院長你還記得嗎有那時候我希望能夠簡化流程提前準備那也希望院長指示在各個需要點來設立示範點來排除法規的限制那請問這樣的一個要求後來行政院是不是已經有落實了"},{"start":23571.36,"end":23593.526,"text":"我相信石部長已經在這次的這個菸賽福的事件當中他已經執行過這樣的一個功能那是不是請石部長說明一下除了無人機送藥這件事情之外前置的法制作為我們知道無人機送藥分成兩個部分一個是無人機車交通部的業務送藥的部分涉及到醫事法 藥事法對不對那這個是不是跟我們之前在推動的所謂的通訊診療辦法有關"},{"start":23595.894,"end":23616.725,"text":"跟委員報告這一次在馬太安溪的煙澀湖災害事件的第一刻我們就派遣了無人機團隊進駐到花蓮後來也成功執行任務後來真的有這個需求發生我們就非常快的時間就反應了也讓這個病人能夠及時拿到藥物"},{"start":23617.725,"end":23639.745,"text":"基於這幾次的成功經驗所以我們接下來大概朝三個方向也扣合您剛剛的指教第一個先去盤點全國大概有這樣缺口需要的點有哪一些風險點事先規劃因為這個無人機要送藥的操作他必須事先規劃這個航線所以跟這個落地點這個都要先選擇好"},{"start":23640.666,"end":23665.079,"text":"所以第一步我們會先去盤點那第二個呢 這個啟動的過程會有很多的跨部會的合作那因此我們要建立一個平台讓他的作業起來能夠更迅速第三個就是您關切的法規的部分能不能繼續鬆綁我們目前是在緊急災難的情形之下可以適用那能不能夠 平常呢對 用在偏鄉 然後在平常就可以操作這是我們第三個該進行的"},{"start":23665.819,"end":23672.726,"text":"院長聽到沒有第三個我關心的就是最近就是今天的報紙報導說首次用無人機送血"},{"start":23673.837,"end":23699.796,"text":"不是災害也不是災區但是血液的緊急作用很重要所以接下來我就是一個問題了所以根據我們的交通部主管的民用航空法當中遙控無人機的管理規則第33條當時我的專案諮詢有提到第一項是說在災害應變時這個沒有問題只要應變指揮官的下達指令就可以不受既有的無人機的使用規則就可以派遣但是第二個"},{"start":23700.396,"end":23728.876,"text":"第二項的時候呢他說在災害以外的緊急狀況發生的時候仍然有所謂的現場指揮官或權責機關指定的現場負責人員你想像一個情況假如登山客爬山不是災害喔被蛇咬了馬上要運送蛇毒血進去那請問這個時候的無人機派遣現場誰是指揮官誰是權責機關指定的人員是不是要請衛務部跟交通部預先把這個第二項的相關人員的法制呢"},{"start":23729.356,"end":23751.31,"text":"先把它配備所以平常就可以送包括醫材跟醫藥院長 部長來 部長請跟委員報告這個大概分成兩段一個是適用緊急醫療法我們緊急醫療法也有行動性我想是無人機的部分我們來修正討論法規讓它在剛剛這個情境是緊急醫療的需要"},{"start":23752.03,"end":23765.818,"text":"緊急送藥啦或者是這個解毒劑啊等等的這個有時效性的這是緊急醫療那第二個是比較常規性這個偏遠地區送藥那個讓民眾更方便那這兩個不同的法規我們會來研議"},{"start":23767.379,"end":23791.331,"text":"院長我要說的就是說現在根據無人機的管理規則大概只有限定到緊急狀況但是我們看到以小琉球為例離島地區如果輸送磚塊水泥我一定用船運但是我不可能為了運一些醫材藥材我拍一艘船太貴了反而無人機就送過去是平常的經濟便利的行為是不是可以請院長指示交通部跟我們的衛福部就這個醫療機構平常"},{"start":23793.252,"end":23807.373,"text":"在特殊地區他這種用無人機用比較經濟便利的行為也納入平常的法規範好 謝謝委員我們現在技術上可及而且我們整個產業的提升能力也到了我認為在災害的地方災害的時間"},{"start":23808.7,"end":23838.28,"text":"偏遠的地區緊急醫療的作為上面一定要納入未來我們可以服務的對象甚至如果我們有更廣泛的範圍要去處理的話我願意我們全力來研究謝謝院長接下來我要請顧部長也一塊來現在我們這一次有一個軍民之通作業環境韌性及設備效能提升計畫在這次預算當中我們看到了這個國防部有一個叫做變息型的衛星訊號接收器我們很好奇"},{"start":23840.002,"end":23854.602,"text":"這個計畫當中包含了變息型的衛星訊號接收器它是不是可以隨時的部署甚至可以部署到一般緊急派駐的民間家裡去部長您可以看到畫面這是不是我們國防部目前的裝備樣貌"},{"start":23859.031,"end":23873.472,"text":"是 我們這個變西型的就是個人可以西型的可以部署很迅速 那我往下看那麼現在不只是現在未來的指揮不只是企業管理或是國軍的指揮管理"},{"start":23874.69,"end":23894.654,"text":"都要扁平化尤其是防災救災的通報我們看到這一次的情況我們中央應變指揮中心已經下達了要求地方要進行疏散要進行撤離但是層層的轉化如果說地方中間有任何環節鬆脫就沒有辦法貫徹我們中央對地方的要求是不是這樣子是"},{"start":23895.776,"end":23922.205,"text":"現在我們看一下如果過去在台灣經常好發的災害類型是颱風颱風其實都有個預警期過去我們在地方政府的執政經驗其實都會有一個預警的時期而且常常說超前部署您知道嗎 超前部署很多都是用我們國軍裡面的後備幹部就是我們的後備指揮部裡面的後備幹部他們會提早到各鄉鎮去擔任聯絡官的角色我們是想請教一下院長"},{"start":23922.765,"end":23945.105,"text":"未來如果說這種災害的預防式的部署我們國軍的後備幹部下去的時候有沒有可能也可以攜帶這種便利型的通訊裝備以便萬一有中央掌握到緊急的狀況可以直接透由這些後備幹部在各村裡就可以幫忙把訊息傳遞到必要人員手上"},{"start":23946.899,"end":23975.211,"text":"我想我們這些多重的通訊手段都可以在這個有不管是天災發生或是負荷性災難的時候都可以來做那這個不管是無線電或者是衛星手機還有一些微波還有有一些中繼的煉爐我們想都可以來進行這樣子所以像這樣的一個強化國安任性的這樣的器材其實在平常如果建置起來的時候在外就可以用我們在"},{"start":23976.623,"end":23987.548,"text":"自災害的經驗看來如果我們有充實更多的裝備訓練更完善的人才人員的話我們會把災害的損失再降低所以現在我們這個相關的特別預算的"},{"start":23988.49,"end":24008.124,"text":"裡面就是希望能夠更多的充實一些必須要有的像類似這樣的裝備我們盡量把它補起來也好接下來謝謝國防部副部長接下來我們要請內政部的劉部長還有我們也是要再請衛福部的石部長上來我看到衛福部有一個強化獨居老人的關懷服務計劃在我們這次特別預算當中那我們知道"},{"start":24008.604,"end":24032.165,"text":"包括我們的劉部長我過去在高屏地區有算是雞皮疙瘩出殯他在高雄市在做護理我在屏東在做護管我們都知道在我們南部經常遇到颱風所以我們會做一些預防式的疏散這個時候我們不只是有靠護證系統因為護證資料是固定的但是有沒有在籍人口有沒有都在那裡還要透過什麼 透過設證"},{"start":24033.442,"end":24050.218,"text":"什麼是射陣有沒有在領老人的一些關懷服務的要透過衛陣有沒有臥病在床的需要慢性病送藥的甚至要透過警陣才會知道說有沒有一些流動人口住在人裡面所以是不是請劉部長說明一下像這樣的一個強化獨居老人關懷的服務計畫雖然是衛護部主政"},{"start":24052.64,"end":24082.3,"text":"但是遇到像這次的災害需要緊急撤離的時候這些保全名單是不是更有助於我們內政部在要求的時候呢可以掌握到這些必須緊急疏散撤離的人員報告委員我想你非常經驗豐富通常我們就是把他講的他是保全戶那這個保全戶只要訊息開始啟動的時候都會要求縣市地方政府或是鄉鎮公所包括從民政戶政或者是社會或者是警政系統去確定一下他有沒有在即"},{"start":24083.14,"end":24100.752,"text":"或者有沒有在現場或者他現在的身心狀態那如果有碰到開始有發布相關警報的時候就會啟動所謂的預防性的疏散撤離就幾乎會在汛期之前在前一天或是前24小時48小時就先異地撤離或做其他安全地方的安置"},{"start":24101.291,"end":24117.589,"text":"好 謝謝院長剛剛劉部長跟兩個石部長兩個要合作這個計畫雖然是衛福部的但是如果平常的演練還加上什麼加上一個疏散編組因為行動不便的人需要人家幫忙那這些人他也需要有適當的裝備跟通訊讓他知道可以及時的來幫忙"},{"start":24118.81,"end":24132.025,"text":"駕駛出面要帶大部分他坐輪椅 我有塞車子給他載照所以這個部分是不是可以院長只是兩個部會密切合作幫我們來落實這樣的一個預防的疏散撤離是的 謝謝委員我們一定會"},{"start":24133.447,"end":24152.8,"text":"做好這件工作我們歷史在中央在應變中心當颱風來臨的時候做一些分組的工作報告裡面都要求在疏散撤離組當中把所要撤離的對象確實掌握其中就真的包括剛剛部長所說的保全戶都要強烈在裡面地方政府能夠做好"},{"start":24153.48,"end":24178.387,"text":"這樣的工作謝謝 接下來我就多談一些這次設備有關其實我們村裡防災緊急救難我們是有編列了15.85億是要幫助我們的防災協作中心以及村裡防災緊急設備在114年就有協力團隊進駐未來的115年到116年要村裡防災那是不是可以高危險的偏鄉地區優先來設置我舉例往下講 往下看其實村裡誰最常來幫大家解決問題村裡長"},{"start":24180.268,"end":24183.649,"text":"我們發現這筆預算有協助在幫助他們充實裝備但我是覺得裝備跟設備要分開來個人的裝備 你說頭盔 照明燈 手電筒那些都有 但是像青蛙裝"},{"start":24199.094,"end":24216.631,"text":"這次的我們常發現淹水的時候要清化妝但是清化妝不是全力幹死的大家都有的我們說這種個人的裝備可以優先先配合這是一種另外一種是什麼是屬於像什麼發電機 緊急照明甚至動力工具 油壓碱這類的這類的其實配發下去不見得好為什麼"},{"start":24217.432,"end":24238.023,"text":"我們不經常這樣行 放在社區有時候中心就壞掉了是建議說 實施計畫的時候用一個專案的方式委託有維運廠商 有需要預警的時候就先配置 就是超前部署事情沒有發生 收回來保養不用說放在社區 這樣就壞掉了請問議長是否可以支持 我們的熱線部長這個議員 用這個方式來接應"},{"start":24240.953,"end":24269.161,"text":"報告委員 這個有可能牽扯到中央地方自治權限的問題有些是地方該做的我們要求地方能夠做到 請地方做到那有些比較大型的設備問題中央可能會有必要做一個統一這個請部長答覆緊急發電機的部分其實我們要求他們強強就要能夠維修這個還是一定要配備因為你什麼時候變成孤島都不知道但是我要跟委員報告您非常經驗豐富我希望能夠加入所謂的防災社區的概念"},{"start":24270.321,"end":24285.715,"text":"防災設計的概念不是說只有這些裝備包括他在村裡面很多人他如果受到相關訓練的話碰到有狀況他更熟悉村裡面怎麼樣做比較好的防災整備所以我們在防災協作中心的話希望能夠配備有原來在"},{"start":24286.395,"end":24303.888,"text":"戶籍所在地的一個替代役來協助防災協作中心然後才跟村裡面其他的相關的社團來一起合作再加上中央的地方如果願意把裝備分類管理的話我相信未來如果碰到天災會很容易可以自救救人這樣子比較好謝謝兩位部長接下來我繼續問院長其實這次的風災兩位部長可以請回"},{"start":24308.499,"end":24333.133,"text":"其實在921的時候我們屏東是有去埔里救災的但是我們看到這當年已經是1999年的事情了好我們往下看其實從921的大地震我們看到民眾熱心捐款捐物資到了莫拉哥風災我的故鄉屏東也遭災那時候來了很多的民間志工幫我們清淤到現在這是馬太安我們看到民間人力更加充沛還自己帶鏟子甚至我們有進步到有機具都來支援"},{"start":24333.573,"end":24352.35,"text":"那像這樣的情況之下我認為為了我們中央應變小組其實要好好善用我們國防部裡面我們的後備軍人的這個指揮後指部他其實在美式的救災我們看到現在在花蓮的現場有了校旗機關的進駐之後志工就被組織起來了"},{"start":24353.531,"end":24378.573,"text":"工作就順利了所以我們希望未來在這樣的中央應變當中要善用我們的後備系統讓後備的幹部可以先派駐到這些地方上來萬一有災後的救災的需求這些人就是非常好的組織者請問院長是不是願意這樣子來敦促我們的國防部跟地方政府來建置這樣的一個組織是 在這次的經驗告訴我們民間的名利非常的"},{"start":24379.831,"end":24398.306,"text":"龐大以及充沛但是我們認為這個還是補充性如果平時沒有組織起來的話我們沒辦法預測正規的防救災人員跟防救災的組織一定要完成起來名利的補充下來平常建立這種組織系統的聯繫把它做一些基本上的訓練也好或是做一個聯繫也好將來才有辦法運用到這個地方來"},{"start":24398.986,"end":24424.006,"text":"謝謝 因為時間的關係最後我要提醒一下那個永久屋的經驗一定要記取現在我們已經有發現有89戶他需要中基屋他未來土地跟房屋的所有權一定要妥善規劃請院長督促我們行政院協助地方主把這個地方完備 可以嗎我們會加強跟這些89戶 算是更多的人好 謝謝鍾委員謝謝卓院長 謝謝鍾委員"},{"start":24426.909,"end":24444.125,"text":"下一位 請黃建豪委員質詢好 謝謝大會主席 江副院長我們現在先請這個行政院 卓院長 請卓院長備詢"},{"start":24453.923,"end":24481.808,"text":"黃委員好院長好 院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說 行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說"},{"start":24482.688,"end":24509.676,"text":"要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面提到講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的"},{"start":24510.523,"end":24536.629,"text":"初心我們那時候是希望說為了應付美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢"},{"start":24539.597,"end":24560.293,"text":"報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的"},{"start":24562.366,"end":24570.329,"text":"普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海"},{"start":24578.653,"end":24595.315,"text":"它不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下要談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才會提出說"},{"start":24596.076,"end":24624.427,"text":"這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債 這個真的是舉債但是國人需要"},{"start":24628.218,"end":24644.857,"text":"我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到資源排擠資源排序的問題我想這一次的"},{"start":24645.837,"end":24672.523,"text":"這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對所謂的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了"},{"start":24673.103,"end":24696.536,"text":"那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎"},{"start":24697.798,"end":24725.789,"text":"跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的"},{"start":24726.67,"end":24739.189,"text":"或者是這個訓場的部分它都也只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分所以我們的營業陸續會籌獲大量的新式的武器"},{"start":24741.793,"end":24759.447,"text":"然後還有我們因應義務役一年期的義務役還有後備戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力"},{"start":24760.087,"end":24781.124,"text":"所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那直通的部分過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個直通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個直通的安全的環境"},{"start":24782.285,"end":24801.44,"text":"因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都 我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面金長門佔了一千億資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點"},{"start":24804.068,"end":24819.86,"text":"這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的"},{"start":24821.755,"end":24848.09,"text":"我想這個經常跟資本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回覆但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分"},{"start":24848.63,"end":24873.307,"text":"所以如果能夠有支應這個特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益我想今天因為時間有限我要才是要跟部長跟院長提醒就是說因為接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查我們今天談的這個特別預算裡面不管是總預算還是這一次這個任性的特別預算"},{"start":24874.011,"end":24892.271,"text":"在國防任性的支出我想比例跟相比過去都相對比較高很多的這個預算都是以這個為主當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資"},{"start":24893.092,"end":24912.047,"text":"後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常本的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定的程度的影響應該不是應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好 沒關係我這個書面資料上面有寫不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個"},{"start":24915.95,"end":24943.233,"text":"立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個特別預算這次任性特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差"},{"start":24943.793,"end":24968.974,"text":"可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以 擴大內需當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好好 剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下"},{"start":24970.26,"end":24993.635,"text":"謝謝部長 院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家複製矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔工所以我們把這個產業經驗"},{"start":24995.157,"end":25013.497,"text":"複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊"},{"start":25014.238,"end":25026.635,"text":"是我們想抄它們是我們其他國家想學習它那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個"},{"start":25027.463,"end":25053.042,"text":"是不是硬體設備 我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國外比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒 技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係 可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移 包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業上下有"},{"start":25053.522,"end":25076.161,"text":"畢竟不是只有台積電今天台積電司機所也是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況"},{"start":25078.078,"end":25098.528,"text":"前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要"},{"start":25099.048,"end":25114.686,"text":"把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情"},{"start":25115.413,"end":25129.247,"text":"包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠"},{"start":25134.312,"end":25149.443,"text":"但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題"},{"start":25150.163,"end":25165.506,"text":"好 部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係 因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響"},{"start":25166.693,"end":25190.826,"text":"包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商"},{"start":25192.847,"end":25213.114,"text":"好 部長謝謝 院長持續部長請回 院長這一次的特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分其中包含了整備防災的防救災緊急衛生設備的建置大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統我想任性這一次花蓮的案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關"},{"start":25214.234,"end":25242.099,"text":"這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個堰塞湖的問題它可能後續還會有泥沙量還有很多7千萬目前只有7千萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的"},{"start":25243.015,"end":25255.764,"text":"任性的問題 國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們之後再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情"},{"start":25257.839,"end":25280.42,"text":"馬太岸溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化對於它整個淹射壺旁邊泥沙堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們直升機到現場去人員都下不去"},{"start":25281.081,"end":25304.142,"text":"目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎"},{"start":25304.77,"end":25325.827,"text":"如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好 院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面"},{"start":25327.421,"end":25353.657,"text":"台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼"},{"start":25355.738,"end":25358.399,"text":"因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請邱志偉委員質詢"},{"start":25397.807,"end":25426.565,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢邱委員好卓院長你辛苦了站了一整天不會謝謝你對國家付出那麼多的努力跟奉獻特別這一陣子面臨到國際情勢的變化還有國內的這些災情行政團隊全力以赴"},{"start":25428.093,"end":25452.468,"text":"先對行政團隊表示肯定感謝現在還沒進行關稅第五輪談判美方提出他的offer提出他的訴求我想他不是個人意見不是商務部長尼克的個人意見誤差人對分一定是美國政府的立場對我們而言這是一個很大的挑戰所以"},{"start":25454.588,"end":25480.194,"text":"日軍副院長必須去美國提出我們的offer G to G用政府協助用民間企業去佈局我們提供財政協助希望美國提供土地水電然後我們把這個竹科的經驗能夠複製到美國但美國不是完全沒有配合美國要配合土地水電我們用我們的經驗"},{"start":25481.994,"end":25486.222,"text":"所以這種我想居土區的方式這並不是供應鏈產業的轉移這是供應鏈的擴大"},{"start":25492.734,"end":25518.628,"text":"我想我這樣陳述代表這個行政團隊的立場我這樣陳述應該是正確的應該不叫一個園區 而是一個服務園區服務我們的廠商去做一些工作真的未來要成立一個大的園區廠商要自述過去我們提供這個所謂財政協助或者行政資源那美方也要配合這種情況之下G2G的方式這個美國能不能接受呢"},{"start":25519.902,"end":25534.696,"text":"這個就是我們要善用到現在我們發展這麼多年的科學元素的經驗當世界各國尤其美方希望來學習複製的時候我們可以提供給他的是什麼程度但是剛剛部長也講了我們維持國家的產業的"},{"start":25536.497,"end":25558.985,"text":"領導的關鍵地位一定要跟著台灣我們的核心技術一定要跟著台灣這種情況之下我們有別於日本模式跟韓國模式日本是擴大投資日本好像是5500億南韓是3500億我們是台灣模式台灣模式是我們成功協助在建築產業園區對不對我們廠商也過去美國也配合"},{"start":25559.925,"end":25579.954,"text":"這種是好的模式像外國的模式是財政上一筆錢這樣的投資的方式那我們是廠商去設廠的一種方式這對我們來講是廠商剛剛您說延伸或者是全球佈局的一種但是他在那邊的生產跟國內的生產當然國內的這個領先的地位我們會維持住我們over這些"},{"start":25580.874,"end":25594.076,"text":"目標就是說我們232條款能夠得到更好的條件然後疊加稅率不要再疊加或者原額關稅可以再降低這是我們努力的目標你有沒有信心達到這個目標"},{"start":25595.814,"end":25622.974,"text":"我覺得以我們國家現在的科技發展實力以及我們跟美方之間未來透過更正常的一些採購方面來看我們可以就我們雙方的貿易平衡做很多的努力這個我們也在做如果這樣的話我們有在做貿易平衡的努力我們有我們產業上的優勢我們應該可以得到更合理的待遇接下來就是說這個月底11月初在APEC在韓國慶周"},{"start":25624.731,"end":25636.891,"text":"當川普是在上第二個任期第一次在亞洲所以我們的領袖代表已經決定了嗎應該是決定了是不是跟半導體有關係"},{"start":25639.012,"end":25665.451,"text":"這個是釜放在作業還在作業因為一定要先跟APEC主辦方去有一些默契我期待是有半導體方面的領導者或者在全球有聲望的半導體高層或者有威望的半導體權威人士因為很難的機會可以跟各國領袖特別是川普能夠當面的做一些建議或者做一些會談也有可能"},{"start":25666.496,"end":25689.12,"text":"所以人選已經決定了委員這樣的建議 府方一定會非常重視我現在應該是從半導體來切入一個有國際聲望領袖級的半導體的權威人士代表台灣的領袖的會議這個APEC主辦方應該會接受吧我們提出的"},{"start":25690.451,"end":25718.842,"text":"適當的人選我們都會經過正常的管道來表達我們參與這個的意願跟他的功能心這個月底應該就會確定了好那另外提到這個整個產業的因應我想這個國務長您9月3號也去跟我們這個岡山 岡山是六四困現在面臨最嚴峻的挑戰就是說全球六大洲市場現在只有北美市場不是北美市場全部加拿大也沒有了墨西哥也沒有了"},{"start":25719.921,"end":25738.252,"text":"其他州也沒有 因為中國的銷價競爭嘛中國的這個扣件都比我們這個便宜三成到四成所以我們只有美國的 轟入美國市場因為美國沒有市場所以我們美國的市場很重要你要怎麼協助金屬扣件大型的 我覺得他有因應中小型的"},{"start":25739.414,"end":25754.169,"text":"你們怎麼讓他能夠繼續來保持一定的經營能力一定的競爭力 幾項的建議我想包括人力 勞動力不足包括他們的下屆巔峰的電力成本"},{"start":25754.87,"end":25766.455,"text":"是不是有可能去考量這些都是當場給您有提出建議也包括檢討或廢除5%的未分配盈餘加深因索稅制部分以減輕他們的所謂的企業資金的壓力"},{"start":25770.777,"end":25788.724,"text":"另外也希望央行跟財政部經管會能釋出更多的資金來協助相關的中小型的擴建業者取得資金這是當天的會議的結論我覺得這部分不曉得經濟部有沒有相關的看法"},{"start":25789.924,"end":25818.288,"text":"報告委員像金融支持的部分我們一再的強調就是雨天一定不收傘甚至於還要撐更大的傘所以在新的貸款部分我們還提供信保的部分而且在額度以下是10成10的保證而且利息事實上是有減免的來協助企業如果他需要資金的話我的感受他們告訴我這個他們並沒有特別有感覺這個都是現在已經正在做的"},{"start":25819.246,"end":25827.363,"text":"特別情形 特別時期有特別的做法讓這些中小型產業能夠維持生存 維持競爭力讓他們有感很重要"},{"start":25828.28,"end":25849.326,"text":"是 我們跟公股 航空也好甚至於金管會還有銀行公衛都一再的講說雨天不能收產也就是說旧貸一定可以展延是沒有條件 繳息要正常而且可以展延半年然後利息還可以做一些節目部長 9月3號你跟這些螺絲葉子做過座談到這邊一個月了 對不對"},{"start":25850.006,"end":25863.364,"text":"一個月他們所提出的事項你要很具體的答覆這些擴建業者讓他們了解我們政府在做事有在協助產業發展這部分還沒有得到經濟部的相關訊息我們輔導團馬上組好就要下去了"},{"start":25868.471,"end":25885.59,"text":"全台灣會在扣件是全台灣全球排名前三名的這個而且扣件都是很多的產業都需要扣件但是我們很希望說這個特別預算可以趕快通過我們才有辦法擴大實施要不然我們現在只能用以晚季期的方式以晚季期"},{"start":25887.27,"end":25908.83,"text":"規模有限預算當然會過但是你要怎麼用對地方提供他們有感的政策有感的協助這點很重要再請這個鞏部長再去深思另外有關於內政部跟國防部就是說內政部也編列加強反恐維安能量的這些以及關鍵基礎設施的防護效能"},{"start":25909.571,"end":25936.162,"text":"已經編了34億國防部也針對基礎設施關鍵的這些設施國外能量大概也編了大概428億特別提到國境 國門我們出入境要維護國人旅搭機安全 旅客安全第一個 院長安檢是不是很重要"},{"start":25938.024,"end":25965.005,"text":"行李的安檢第一個要充足人力第二個要有先進的設備要有專業的人員行警我常常從不管是從雄山桃園或者是小港我出境的時候發現一個問題人力非常非常不夠一個安檢線兩名同仁因為是行警同仁他要看monitor"},{"start":25965.902,"end":25994.493,"text":"我們現在的行李輸送袋你的行李要放在那個要進去那個X光機他是用人工拿那個環子去只有一個保全公司人員一條安檢線一個保全公司人員他還要拿行李然後還要告訴你說衣服要脫然後帽子要脫那個口袋要拿出來iPad要拿出來兩個人然後另外一個行情局還要專心看這個monitor看有沒有違禁品查到違禁品誰去看"},{"start":25996.265,"end":26009.075,"text":"應當是有中巡力執法人員去看應該是行警局 行警人力去看看的是誰 是保全公司保全公司有這專業就發現這個違禁品到底是不是可以登記嗎"},{"start":26011.28,"end":26038.789,"text":"追根就離啊 就是第一個我們花那麼多的錢包括這個農業部那個安檢不是安檢就是朱溫一年也編了這個2億然後我們要協助行警能力的部分一年編了11億這些我們可以為什麼不招募更多的這個我們行警能力補充行警能力有專業去執勤"},{"start":26040.273,"end":26069.186,"text":"而不是這些保全公司保全公司一年一聘他專業怎麼去執行說每天搭飛機我每次搭飛機我都提心吊膽一條線竟然只有兩位而且你心裡有問題是保全公司能去看這樣國人搭機怎麼會安心呢所以我想請部長一定要請院長一定要支持行警能力部署現任的造局長 行警造局長"},{"start":26070.439,"end":26098.65,"text":"剛到了一個月我立即跟他反映他有立即去改善最重要的問題人力不足然後你這個保全公司一年一聘花了12億為什麼你不用設備更新呢你用自動的轉盤輸送帶空間不是不夠我覺得台灣的安檢整體的品質在國際上是倒數"},{"start":26100.37,"end":26127.807,"text":"人力也好 專業也好我們用那麼多的這個所謂S光機然後那麼多的這個人身的安安檢設備很少有使用一台要440萬總共買了21台有沒有人力去執行比如說你要經過S光機你要所謂的舉起來你要經過這個安檢或者它逼的時候你要用那個掃描器看一下"},{"start":26129.028,"end":26158.033,"text":"這個很少執行 因為什麼因為沒有能力 空有設備沒有能力這國際安全我非常憂慮 主要是能力不夠這能力不夠我想這個劉部長也了解也跟行政院反映過但是能力補充一直沒有辦法到位同樣非洲豬瘟只有台灣跟日本是非豬瘟國對不對日本有聘用每年用2億去做一個安檢設施嗎"},{"start":26160.633,"end":26185.552,"text":"我跟委員報告因為日本我們在機場會比較加強檢疫就是最主要我們國內養豬還有廚餘的養豬系統我瞭解 你要嘛你就全面做不要只有豪原機場做第二個部分豪原機場你是外片的然後小港機場你是用海關去爬這個牽涉到場地我也跟委員報告您剛才講人力的部分那特別行政特別是院長也有支持在檢疫的人員的部分"},{"start":26186.592,"end":26207.294,"text":"行政院人事總署那邊已經有多合併了一些人為了應用第三期的部分檢驗人員要專業那也是保全公司在看後續我們保全我們正職的人員我們會做調整公權力的行使不能用民間的保全業者市委員 行警人員的問題我再請劉部長能夠確實的去了解"},{"start":26207.654,"end":26229.693,"text":"如果真的是行警人員不足這個保全的專業不足還有就是各種安檢的這個品質也不足的話我會發現年紀差距也蠻大的我看也有四五十歲也有二三十幾歲明年我們把發展觀光列為擴大內需重要的一環那既然這樣我們希望更多人進來流程要快也希望安檢的檢查要能夠徹底這個我們來檢討我寧願慢一點"},{"start":26232.675,"end":26255.167,"text":"檢查仔細精確一點安全一點我們搭機才會安心我們來檢討整個流程我離遠慢一點你根本就是如果留意形勢的話那這樣子對旅客這個飛行安全旅行安全是非常非常大的威脅可是我們會同時並進我們希望外國的旅客多來我也希望在程序上能夠讓他們覺得說台灣是一個親近的國家因為根據理就是人力不夠人力不夠你就來辦事"},{"start":26256.428,"end":26273.108,"text":"然後這個設備你要更新不要還是用到這個二次世界大戰以後的那個行李行李轉盤還用人力去搬啊你那個放行李那個S光機的轉盤那個看慕尼德的行警人員有時候還要去幫忙拿盤子"},{"start":26276.124,"end":26303.239,"text":"日本是在前面就用一個音箱廣播請你用日文 英文還有中文 韓文它廣播你什麼東西要拿出來什麼東西拿出來這個我們都可以學習嘛那最起碼你行李輸送帶要讓它現代化一點它可以自動輸送嘛這不是沒有預算嗎是國境的安全這也是非常重要好 謝謝委員這個提醒我們來檢討這個過程"},{"start":26305.74,"end":26315.414,"text":"每次質詢時間都過得很快好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝院長 謝謝部長謝謝邱委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請林德福委員質詢"},{"start":26338.458,"end":26365.023,"text":"主席也是我們的副院長還有卓院長還有行政院的團隊是不是請卓院長請卓院長備詢林委員好卓院長你好因應國際形勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別預算整個總額高達5500億元"},{"start":26368.5,"end":26393.505,"text":"本來該特別預算主要因應就是美國總統川普的關稅戰而起但是行政院預算內容預算的整個內容裡面包山包海當行政院不斷以特別之名來行日常之時一般民眾已看不出和年度預算有什麼兩樣"},{"start":26395.359,"end":26423.546,"text":"那不少學者也警告濫用特別預算將使整個年度預算審查變成空洞化造成整個國家資源的挫折這是蔡英文時代以前瞻預算來要挾這個地方和國會的一個老伎倆那譬如此次國防部爭取特別預算針對"},{"start":26426.633,"end":26454.096,"text":"就是彈藥庫儲的設施還有精品保修工廠庫儲的設施這些相關改善立法院預算中心也質疑必須使用特別預算嗎有這樣的迫切性嗎本來國防部應該在年度預算裡面來編列那況且現在馬上就要審年度的預算"},{"start":26456.34,"end":26462.093,"text":"這個在年度預算裡面編列來改善現在卻挪到特別預算來搭便車"},{"start":26464.11,"end":26486.152,"text":"本席是不希望也不樂見行政院得不到想要的預算資源就製作圖卡釋出具有殺傷力這些消息來結合這些側翼打擊審查特別預算的這些委員那本席也呼籲卓院長你應該公開承諾"},{"start":26487.633,"end":26507.68,"text":"參考立法院預算中心以及審計部的意見不要讓特別預算變成常態化逐年來減少使用特別預算的比重限縮特別預算適用的範圍回饋常態的預算編列這樣的機制院長你的看法"},{"start":26509.33,"end":26523.868,"text":"報告委員我們當然希望能夠透過年度預算來表現出整個政府施政的重點跟方向但委員剛剛有提到前瞻基礎建設的這個特別預算我想到今天為止很多的委員包括地方的民意代表地方的各級政府"},{"start":26524.469,"end":26552.398,"text":"都覺得前瞻基礎建設對地方有很大的注意很多的委員有爭取過只要預算編的合理執行的合理都應該是對於 但是你變成一個常態化啊對不對所以我們我剛剛我早上有說 年度預算應該要編他就列了很多的項目但是那如果是 所謂前瞻跟這個這次編的預算你應該是你要是說特別預算針對要是有災害發生我相信"},{"start":26552.958,"end":26574.533,"text":"不要符合預算法的特別預算但是你們現在就是有一點變成巧立名目而且很多的不應該編載這次的預算裡面巧立名目來包山包海的納進去所以說剛剛有很多的委員他們也是有提出這樣的看法跟委員報告115年為例作業為止會是編列在廣播的部分是1990億"},{"start":26582.208,"end":26599.887,"text":"就這個部分它要優先維持裝備的妥善所以資源的配置上來看的話只能夠維持設置的堪用所以預算中心的報告我們有看但是要請委員能夠了解的就是說如果你以這個我們要整件戴藥褲褲子的設置來看的話"},{"start":26600.647,"end":26617.499,"text":"這些彈藥庫民國90年以前完成現在都老舊了如果你以作業維持會近三年的比例來看的話每年大概只能夠便宜一億多這個只能夠維持基本的庫儲設施的修繕但是沒有辦法來因應我們現在要籌購的大量的新式武器"},{"start":26617.999,"end":26640.25,"text":"要入庫然後彈藥要囤儲的這樣的需求所以我們一次性的在兩年內把它做一個大量的整建之後你不能編在今年的正常預算裡面嗎為什麼一定要編在這一次裡面讓人家感覺就是有這種感覺如果我們把它編在這個今年的年度預算裡面的話我們的裝備的妥善的這個部分就幾乎沒有辦法能夠維持到"},{"start":26641.491,"end":26654.875,"text":"那所以我們庫儲的這個庫儲設施的這個部分我們快速的集中資源在短時間裡面在兩年我們就能夠把它強化這個存在已經很久的時間這個就能夠強化我們的戰備的一個力量"},{"start":26658.716,"end":26684.199,"text":"這個存在已經很久的時間為什麼一定要在這一次納進來你為什麼不能先前你像這個有編正常預算的時候你納進去對不對你不要講讓人家感覺就是包山包海所以說我們立法院預算中心啊才特別的針對這一點來質疑甚至於審計室審計部他們也有這樣的看法我認為說你們該改則改主任長你認為該不該改"},{"start":26685.595,"end":26698.632,"text":"我認為我們每一筆預算包括這次的強化韌性的特別條例跟特別預算都有它跟編制的根據剛剛部長也說過了它急迫性需要在短時間內把這些庫儲設備給它完成起來"},{"start":26700.555,"end":26720.957,"text":"如果是在年度預算他一定排擠到目前他現在國防預算裡面相關的設備訓練等等的預算跟委員報告我想任何的作戰要靠後勤假設我們籌貨大量的武器裝備到了我們事實上沒有足夠的後勤來支撐的話這一個武器裝備的維持是很困難的"},{"start":26721.517,"end":26738.869,"text":"所以我們庫儲設施先要迅速的來整建那我們這一次提就是說在兩年的時間之內我們大量的來整建這些相關的庫儲的設施跟這些訓場讓我們的後備戰力一無一的訓練讓我們的這些新式彈藥的武器能夠有一個"},{"start":26740.87,"end":26757.305,"text":"囤儲的一個地點這個部分的話有它的一個急迫性存在那如果你一年一年編那這樣的話我們可能要搞個十幾年可是我們沒有辦法等待這樣子的一個慢慢的來做所以我們希望能夠快速的提升我們的能力我就再進一步請教 顧部長"},{"start":26758.615,"end":26776.455,"text":"那你像那個我們現在還有多少錢這個預算在美國武器沒有來已經那麼久了多少錢你告訴全國全國的民眾跟委員跟委員報告多少錢我想這一個所有武器還沒來"},{"start":26777.341,"end":26802.678,"text":"所有的現在相關的這些不管是我們一般的軍購的程序或者是用特別條例所一般的這樣子的一個軍購它確實是有一些武器是遲延的但我們現在都盡力的在跟美方協作你不要講現在我是要求說有多少錢還在美國武器沒有來時間已經拖拉那麼長了你告訴全國的民眾"},{"start":26804.271,"end":26828.38,"text":"這個一定要清清楚楚啊這個沒有什麼好隱瞞的啊對不對這個再把詳細資料跟委員做報告啦很多事情不要刻意去隱瞞啦不是隱瞞 這牽扯到雙方之間還有一些目前契約在存在的過程當中我們也期待趕快來實現錢給好久 武器沒來對不對 大家心知肚明來 那個"},{"start":26829.941,"end":26856.761,"text":"那個美國商務部說美國不能再過度來依賴台灣半導體必須推動這個美台的晶片產能那五五分案 五五分的這種方案成就美國版的一個戲盾美國已經把話講白美國對台積電的要求已經不只是投資美國的廠甚至要將一半以上的產能移往美國"},{"start":26858.583,"end":26885.465,"text":"台灣半導體整個產業鏈勢必要跟著台積電一起去美國過去幾個月許多政府官員包括民進黨人士一再駁斥台積電不會變成美積電本席也希望政府堅守立場不能同意如此離譜的條件讓企業跟流台灣避免台灣的半導體產業被美國給掏空"},{"start":26886.953,"end":26911.378,"text":"剛剛那個龔部長你講的我都聽過我也了解但是現在最嚴重就是他要求你把那些整個產業鏈移過去 對不對那你要跟著去 台灣就是掏空了啊不會啦 巴委員我剛才提到過就是說即便他1635億真的完成那個也要好幾年才完成 他是六個廠"},{"start":26912.717,"end":26919.102,"text":"六個晶圓廠我們單單剛剛公布的中科就會有四個廠那個我剛剛都有聽過"},{"start":26921.638,"end":26941.871,"text":"最重要 把握當下所以我們量遠遠超過美國而且技術也是最先進 會在台灣不要美國 講一句話我們什麼都配合沒有這樣子這就是這樣的想法我們政府院長就明確的提這個不可能答應我是希望說 該堅持要堅持"},{"start":26946.718,"end":26959.647,"text":"經濟部前部長郭志輝6月10日說他對台灣談判的結果有高度信心不至於談出比日本南韓更差的關稅結果到了8月豬羊變色"},{"start":26960.868,"end":26975.445,"text":"除了原本的關稅外台灣還要再疊加20%的關稅美國總統川普9月簽下行政命令確定日本商品試用15%跟韓國不疊加對等關稅的特例"},{"start":26982.148,"end":26992.801,"text":"那我請問卓院長以經濟部對美國關稅談判目標是我為此已經取得與日本韓國同樣的這些關稅的條件我們有嗎"},{"start":26993.943,"end":27017.703,"text":"報告委員8月7號所暫時實施的台灣跟美國的對等關稅我們是在最惠國待遇上面再加上20%的關稅但是美方也談到當將來只要談判最後協定達成的時候這都可以再發生任何的變化我們要爭取的就是把這個對等關稅再合理的往下降同時不要再疊加最惠國的待遇同時對232的"},{"start":27019.897,"end":27046.122,"text":"這種優惠以及我們整個供應鏈的合作方式我們盡量把它爭取到對我國最有利的這個方向來我希望那個卓院長該堅持還是要堅持我們會很堅持國家利益產業利益要是不堅持的話國人都看在眼裡因為那些產業界他們沒有辦法生存對不對大家心知肚明對不對你換了美國換了川普總統難道我們那些原來的產業全部都要收掉嗎對不對"},{"start":27048.781,"end":27057.115,"text":"該堅持還是要堅持如果對美關稅談判最終的結果比主要競爭對手關稅來得多等於是讓國內這些廠商的起跑點"},{"start":27061.472,"end":27081.104,"text":"起標點上就輸給日本 輸給南韓 韓國的廠商那我請問經濟部跟財政部政府是否會給予廠商對美出口關稅的差額補貼 會不會我們現在是用你升級轉型或者是金融上的支持或者是你要拓銷多元市場那全部都有一些補助"},{"start":27081.984,"end":27108.369,"text":"補助 他們可以撐嗎那為什麼有補助他們很多要失業他沒辦法繼續生存我們現在很多的收的案件已經超過一千件不是件的問題啦當下就是那些人就失業啦沒有辦法生存啊老闆根本沒辦法營運啊那個無薪 不是叫無薪假這個減班休息是有增加一點但是失業是沒有明顯增加"},{"start":27111.018,"end":27111.38,"text":"譬如說機械設備"},{"start":27115.34,"end":27136.351,"text":"製造業受到美國關稅影響由產業工會 同業工會提出一些影響的數據只要每賣多少產品我們就補助他一些關稅的差額根據出口時機來核銷補助減少美國關稅負面的因素以維護這些產業的競爭力以確保勞工的生計"},{"start":27141.144,"end":27158.774,"text":"有什麼看法我們是支持產業啦我們通常不講補貼啦我們是支持產業那現在我們就是我們兩院趕快來合作把這個特別預算通過了讓經濟部 農業部所有的部會我們所有的力道就可以一次的放下去"},{"start":27160.013,"end":27178.238,"text":"滿身的設備就可以一直用到我是希望能夠把它解決掉啦不要說這個讓他們沒有辦法生存然後那些要變成到最後事業多要裁員等等造成很多社會問題現在失業率沒有明顯的提升還是持平"},{"start":27178.698,"end":27207.085,"text":"另外我再請教民眾也很關心普發現金何時能夠發放日前有一些領退休金奉的這些退伍老兵向本席反映希望請退伍會在今年普發一萬元的時候可以直接入帳到他退伍老兵領退休奉的郵局帳戶中那財政部在此次普發現金對象與方式是不是要跟一二年有不同嗎"},{"start":27208.168,"end":27236.039,"text":"有沒有對象沒有不同沒有不同那我剛剛講的可不可以您剛剛講那個其實我們之前已經研究過因為有所謂的直接入帳就直接進到他的帳戶但是這個資料要非常的完整跟正確才可以那至於這有關退休過去有所謂的退休軍公教的同仁們也反映希望能夠直接入帳但是那個退休金他的方式有各種不同所以沒有辦法完全對上要他簽個欠錢書好了啦"},{"start":27237.239,"end":27259.918,"text":"對不對你只要簽結結書進到賬戶有就沒有再花了嘛如果簽結結書的話他就可以到網站去登記或者去ATM或去郵局也可以領我們郵局有1294個支局都可以去領其實領的方式有非常多都很方便我是認為啦比較簡潔一點啦讓這些人他們不要好"},{"start":27266.738,"end":27288.333,"text":"好 我們時間到 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請林大化委員質詢好 有請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":27301.052,"end":27309.72,"text":"林文豪我們跳到第一頁好 莊院長我們看這一次薩迦颱風襲擊花蓮光復香我們在無人機國家隊在這一次襲擊風災當中確實無見蹤影"},{"start":27323.934,"end":27343.416,"text":"那也不管是災前的預測災時的疏散以及災後人員物資的運送完全看不到無人機國家隊所以本期建議應該是直接台灣走入國際AI無人載具產業供應鏈要從高雄再出發"},{"start":27345.049,"end":27362.257,"text":"好這個本行的幾個重點第一個AI美台關稅的重災區是在高雄第二個台灣對於國際AI無人載具的需求是迫切的第三個國際AI無人載具的涵蓋範圍到底有多寬呢那到底有哪些第四個"},{"start":27362.637,"end":27387.435,"text":"台湾国际AI无人载具的产业目前是缺乏整合也无法进入美军供应链第五个成立高雄国际AI无人载具产业中心这是本席今日的诉求新的法人那他这个法人也不是只有制造而且要扩大测试跟训练产育以及具体就会有一些要求"},{"start":27389.436,"end":27411.304,"text":"這個所謂的美台關稅重災區在高雄對於包括工具機金屬加工 汽車零組件等全部是哀鴻遍野所以今天審查這樣的一個特別預算本期認為結合國家的防禦韌性產業實際的需求及友邦的戰略策略"},{"start":27412.424,"end":27427.511,"text":"建立高雄國際AI無人載具產業中心的急迫性跟必要性它的落實產業聚落以及納入在地廠商成為國防採購的清單好 我們看台灣在國際AI無人載具的產業鏈的現況因為台灣善於成本的控制以及量產"},{"start":27438.496,"end":27455.977,"text":"所以在無人載具的自製程趨勢台灣目前是年產1萬架在2028年的時候預估是要年產18架市場的規模也從50億要提升到300億的規模在這個韌性特別預算當中也提到要1151億元用於國土"},{"start":27458.84,"end":27476.173,"text":"安全韌性預期採購無人載具無人艇的國造及相關設備好我們現在國防預算來帶動無人載具美國既然要求我國呢要有這個提升自我保護能力確實今年的國防預算也達到GDP的3.32%"},{"start":27478.614,"end":27493.818,"text":"達到9495億那現在這10年內本土業者也投入商規軍用的無人載具的研發但本席認為成平時期就應該用軍規軍用這句話我是講給國防部聽的國防國際尋找無人載具飛鴻"},{"start":27500.619,"end":27521.904,"text":"這個是本國的契機烏克蘭在戰前的時候僅有50架的無人載具在今年提出400萬架的需求美國他年產不到10萬架但是他自己國會提出法案要求自治年產到100萬架與中國抗衡台灣最大的無人載具的買家是波蘭但是他每年是3200萬對台採購而已所以國內來發展非紅供應鏈的"},{"start":27529.087,"end":27533.217,"text":"國際AI無人載具的產業是非常非常有市場的"},{"start":27534.557,"end":27561.962,"text":"好那這個國際AI無人載具到底涵蓋哪什麼範圍呢海陸空空中還分為低空中高空跟高空所謂的平流層這個水呢也分為水面跟水下陸用呢有這兩個系統AMR跟AGV跟還有無人載具的反制系統好那台灣國際AI無人載具的產業目前就是缺乏整合無法進入的美軍的供應鏈"},{"start":27562.882,"end":27584.768,"text":"缺乏整合也在這一次的風災華家沙颱風當中沒有辦法在救災發生工人破工了這當中也就是缺乏整合怎麼樣的沒法整合的現況我讓院長知道這件事情台灣無人載具的產業基地必須擴大在去年11月的時候我就要求國發會研議高雄發展為無人載具的國產"},{"start":27587.238,"end":27600.803,"text":"得到的回應是什麼呢選定嘉義縣作為基地建議高雄的工藝就跟嘉義的亞創無人載具基地合作就好了果然這個就破功了"},{"start":27603.944,"end":27617.776,"text":"但是現在國內外都急需飛鴻供應鏈美國軍工新創是多次的來台尋求合作商機就以這一次剛結束的航太展很可惜我們沒有一家國內的廠商進入"},{"start":27619.958,"end":27640.059,"text":"美國的這個軍工供應鏈的產業鏈的清單一家都沒有雖然簽了很多MOU可是講實際的我們國內沒有一家是進入到這個產業也就是沒有這樣的訂單所以支持要院長以這個國家的高度來支持大南方各縣市來發展無人載具的產業"},{"start":27640.78,"end":27661.927,"text":"好現在大南方各自又怎麼發展呢那現在呢就是台南啊他也發展無人載具投入空拍看宅啦屏東呢也將大鵬灣發展為無人載具的水上飛行場那高雄呢也結合無人機的與A岸的用於隧道的巡檢跟登革熱的噴上那台船在高雄港也發表了高雄製造的無人艇的奮進魔鬼漁船"},{"start":27662.988,"end":27676.848,"text":"來爭取國防部的訂單所以中央應該看到我們大南方的需求擴大設置無人載具製造跟培育場域的這樣的一個量能那美軍的無人載具的規範是明確的"},{"start":27678.871,"end":27699.454,"text":"但台灣業者有能力卻無法服規美國軍用無人載具的軍規他們是講的很嚴格的有出口管制 國安審查以及透過美國自的Plus Plus UAS的認證來確認無人載具的合規性但國內卻沒有一個國家對無人載具符合這樣的一個軍規"},{"start":27701.275,"end":27728.087,"text":"在這邊本席主張成立高雄國際AI文人載具中心以彙整全國測試數據重點是這句話沒有數據就沒有AI要不要只講AI我要AI AI國家 AI城市但是完沒有數據一切都是NO我們現在的測試各自為證測試完後就丟了數據就沒有了就沒有人在追蹤了去做整合了這是好可惜的一件事情"},{"start":27728.607,"end":27735.093,"text":"所以這個中心一定要做到會診全國的測試數據進而招商引資輔導讓國內的業者進行國際認證的標準既然要達到這個軍規軍規就一定要搞到國際認證的標準及加入國際供應鏈同時有這種游輪載具是高"},{"start":27746.522,"end":27770.71,"text":"度的跨領域的系統整合且具有應用服務的針對性所以應該有全新的法人那院長我讓您知道現在各自的法人有什麼沒有辦法做到的像以中科院他僅能滿足國家防衛需求並未對產業進行國際認證更不可能切入國際供應鏈的輔導對接好讓我們來看經濟部工研院跟金屬中心"},{"start":27771.07,"end":27799.567,"text":"他只著重執行經濟部的科專計畫且以技術研發為核心他在國際鏈結與產業落地的方面這兩個是不足的更不要說他要匯整全國測試數據當然就不利於無人載具的AI技術無人載具的核心在AIAI的核心在數據我們來看看資測會偏重軟體的推廣其實資測會也都沒有在做研發了"},{"start":27799.947,"end":27826.872,"text":"那我們都希望他高利潤的就是在軟體的部分啊好他也無法協助國內的軟體業切入國際無人載具的供應業好我們來看高雄可作為國際AI無人載具研發示範這次的風災嘉義縣的無人載具基地怎麼了受災了所以他根本就沒有發揮救災勘察的功能所以就有必要在高雄設置備援基地究竟接觸高雄的量能在哪裡"},{"start":27827.632,"end":27845.305,"text":"我們有金屬加工有螺絲扣件有IC設計產業建立整合海陸空的全方位的無人載具研發示範場域報告院長任何一個城市不可能有像高雄這樣海陸空相關的所有的業者"},{"start":27846.225,"end":27860.39,"text":"齊聚在一個城市內好再來完整的戰備供應鏈就在高雄烏克蘭每天損失上萬家的無人載具靠的不是中央補給靠的是各地甚至下到家庭工廠的戰備供應鏈重點是"},{"start":27862.091,"end":27890.615,"text":"普善的普遍的一個戰備供應鏈的一個資源它整個的軍方系統我國無人載具製造不應該只有中科院來獨立承擔高雄具有金屬扣件複合材料機械製造直通訊的軟硬體軍工跟船舶的製造無疑是緊急狀態下最完整的戰備供應鏈所在這句話是重點整體的戰備移動距離一定要在30分鐘內來完成"},{"start":27891.135,"end":27901.927,"text":"有哪一個城市可以這樣的一個國際AI無人載具我們從民間的量能要馬上提升為軍的當中在居民"},{"start":27903.398,"end":27932.698,"text":"這個共一起合作當中尤其是無人載具這件事情一定是軍是佔一他的民佔二只有民的這個雙倍的量能才有可能支撐軍在無人載具不管是海陸空一定要民的量能是雙倍才有可能支撐軍方的一個無人載具的一個量重點所以今天這個中心無非就在培養這樣一個民間的量能"},{"start":27933.258,"end":27948.285,"text":"好那再來看高雄我們這樣的中心不是只做製造而且是要擴大測試跟訓練場域我們的情形可以作為無人艇的製造測試場域高雄的情形是國內少數具有規模的造船產業聚落"},{"start":27949.105,"end":27966.132,"text":"而且我們在台船跟中信造船都在齊心周遭已經發表智慧無人船以及興達港作為水下載具的研發測試基地在興達海基國產離岸風電政策退場之後剛好可以轉型培養水下基礎的人力測試我們的羅西庫里宮山"},{"start":27969.181,"end":27987.85,"text":"在大岡山地區剛好可以轉型無人載具的供應鏈我們的大岡山是國內最大的金屬扣件聚落可以持續的跟軍方合作推動航空零組件及複合材料認證以及重複的帶動高雄的在地供應鏈符合國際軍工"},{"start":27989.371,"end":28000.394,"text":"規的標準好最後我具體的要求這樣的國際高雄國際AI無人載具的產業中心的任務是什麼會展全國測試數據發展無人載具的AI第二個輔導國內業者對接國際無人載具的產業標準第三個任務"},{"start":28005.896,"end":28028.071,"text":"兼顧我國的國防需求跟國際產業鏈結第四個任務它是國內外廠商共同進行垂直整合應用的服務能夠讓國內內走可以打入國際的供應鏈最後先以硬體代軟體再以軟體代硬體的發展國際AI無人載具的產業策略對業者來講就是一定要訂單"},{"start":28029.432,"end":28046.944,"text":"所以先讓國內業者在創意這麼多的時候你一定要讓業者拿到訂單先讓國內的業者 關鍵零組件系統的業者拿到訂單之後再透過我們的運用服務的計畫實現AI科技服務代工的國際商機"},{"start":28047.905,"end":28063.955,"text":"最後本席也要求這個主管機關在經濟部該中心直屬經濟部直屬經濟部不是法人在分出來所有的中心人員跟顧問的朋友需兼具國家國防思維及國際軍工產業鏈的視野接軌國際AI無人載具的產業鏈院長這讓你知道現在的窘境是什麼"},{"start":28069.498,"end":28094.249,"text":"國防中科院他們都是軍人所以他絕對有國防思維但是他沒有國防軍工產業鏈的思維講到經濟部他當然有這個國際他不至於有沒有國際思維但是他有產業思維但是他沒有國防的思維所以今天我們的無人載具要加強我們台灣的國防自主任性的時候"},{"start":28095.302,"end":28115.58,"text":"他其實是需要這個法人他的人員聘任需要這樣的資格好再來本席認為這個預算的來源來自哪裡在落這個條例的落日之前116年12月31號之前就利用這該特別預算的國防部編略的預算當中1131億的8000多萬"},{"start":28117.922,"end":28139.239,"text":"當中來編列成立這個中心在這個預算落日之後由主計總署依新增機關運作預算新增預算給經濟部編列常態性的資本門跟經常門的預算來做永續所以本期具體要求行政院能夠兩個院內提出具體的執行計畫院長請回答"},{"start":28143.247,"end":28161.043,"text":"好 謝謝委員我們在無人機的起步是比較慢所以現在一定要國家隊的模式來進行另外呢無論是商用商規 軍用軍規商用跟軍規之間一定要跨界現在我們正在努力做這樣的一個跨界再來我們現在雅創二館雅創一館 雅創二館在執行的那高雄"},{"start":28161.864,"end":28175.716,"text":"有他的地理之變就是我們可以在高雄未來發展水面水下無人船無人船的部分可以上市在高雄那你說這個是經濟部主管我想國防部在未來一定要有角色所以一定是一個國家隊的概念"},{"start":28179.359,"end":28200.443,"text":"所以當然我就是認為說還是由這個經濟部來主導啦如果我放到國防部我也很頭痛這個國防部從頭到尾都是軍人的思維我如果要發展產業類我要花多大的力氣去說服所有我們軍方的高官中 中科院就是將官啊我們現在也有一個無人載具產業統籌的發展計畫院長就是因為人"},{"start":28208.837,"end":28218.369,"text":"好 謝謝林黛華委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請賴世寶委員質詢"},{"start":28233.088,"end":28255.219,"text":"謝謝主席 江副院長 卓院長以及各位先進有請卓院長還有主席長一起請卓院長 主席長備選賴委員好院長辛苦了今天一天在這裡"},{"start":28257.699,"end":28275.372,"text":"我要開始講一下因為今天講欠的事情特別預算我要講一個我們地方政府一般地方政府大家普遍關心的統籌分配稅款一般補助款計畫型補助款現在行政院"},{"start":28276.483,"end":28293.199,"text":"我都說很大聲的我這個統籌分配這款給了4100多億你看 割這麼多肉左手割 右手割結果 左邊給錢 右邊收錢收回來多少 收回來2646元"},{"start":28295.87,"end":28317.52,"text":"就是一般補助館我們也寫決議說你不可以比去年少你就把計劃的把他錢挖一塊再走離所以變成最後只有競爭價1500多億所以講幾步還是中央集錢錢放在中央這東西心態可以改一下"},{"start":28318.66,"end":28340.349,"text":"主席長我知道你很辛苦 叫院長吵到沒錢又找沒路 結果現在發現不是 院長你還是牢牢的把錢賺在手上 不輕易的給地方政府明顯的左手給 右手拿回來 結果競爭價只有1500 不是4100不要再講4100 那就是騙人你要回應嗎"},{"start":28345.414,"end":28366.853,"text":"4165億是統籌分配稅款增加的其中的2646億是屬於地方自己不是收回來 還是給地方只是你把地方的事權帶過去做而已沒有收回來啊這個資料是主計中處的資料"},{"start":28367.719,"end":28393.538,"text":"是把地方的市權帶過去做啊沒有啦 阿你報告 報告委員這個部分它是原來是地方自治應辦的事項只是它現在改由我們給統籌分稅款來做支援這樣還有一個東西 院長你可能不知道喔現在我們就把不要只有看統籌分稅款要Plus一般補助款Plus計畫補助款這三個全部加起來有九個縣市"},{"start":28396.633,"end":28418.542,"text":"一百一十五年比一百一十四年還要少所以為什麼是因為水平分配不均衡是那個問題啦就是你們的暗感啦這個東西來我就另外一個重點我先把問題丟出來今天這個沒有時間做太多的討論了需要跟主席的時候做討論這個倒希望能夠另外時間跟委員請教我們好好的來研究這個問題苗栗縣"},{"start":28423.192,"end":28451.2,"text":"一個留下查看的財務狀況的縣市 縣啊苗栗縣是不是列管 請問是不是列管列管 大家知道嘛 列管就是留下查看的大家財務被你們這樣子跟台北市一樣好耶 第一名耶 第一級的苗栗縣 雖然我不是苗栗縣選出來立委但是啊 路見不平啦這棋士贏人啦 旁邊的人我的棋士"},{"start":28453.902,"end":28467.778,"text":"苗栗縣怎麼跟台北市一樣好有問題啊 主席總統的資料苗栗縣它的統籌分配稅款的增加是全國排第四所以它的統籌分配稅增加很多苗栗縣跟台北市一樣的笑死人啊大家一聽 蛤 真的喔 蛤"},{"start":28468.639,"end":28481.813,"text":"真的啊 苗栗縣比我們主席的台中市還要好耶苗栗縣第一名啊 台中市不是第一名啊主席長在說他原來不是第五級是因為財政控管才拔到第五級請問台中第幾級請問你台中市第幾級"},{"start":28490.25,"end":28511.709,"text":"台中市應該是第二級啊第二級你看 台中市第二級啊這個副院長啊 要拍拍這個第一級啊苗栗縣都第一級啊台中縣 苗栗縣就在台中旁邊我是台中出身的我台中人因為苗栗 他就是統籌分割證增加太多才跑到第一級啊我啦 會用手啦 會用手"},{"start":28511.969,"end":28531.289,"text":"對呀 增加這麼多就是會紅球苗類縣等於台北市的財務會紅球啦這個要把它降級補助才多一點啊那真的就增加到全國排第四啊否則這個標準不要照這麼算嗎應該是照新的財務法就這樣算我不希望你給答案啦因為你現在說胡說亂報"},{"start":28532.37,"end":28561.342,"text":"我們再跟委員好好的請教 這個值得好好的來研究描綠縣的財富跟台北市一樣好大家笑到 啊啊 笑這麼大聲啊啊 都這樣大家笑到描綠縣居然跟台北市一樣好真的利用求按照新的財化法結果就是這樣子財化法你們就收回去 收回去2600多億我們看關稅問題 你看哪一個部長要去主席長請回"},{"start":28565.461,"end":28587.132,"text":"這個對等關稅怎麼談怎麼談你可以看今天美國出這個牌明天出那個牌這都是你們官員講的很簡單因為川普跟習近平還沒有見面他們沒有見面以前台灣就搞不定這句話你同意不同意國際局勢變化無常而且瞬間變化"},{"start":28589.066,"end":28599.394,"text":"美國 中國之間進行任何的談判我們都無法去左右我們只專注於我們跟美方的談判能不能在我們談判四大原則底下守住我方的立場"},{"start":28600.675,"end":28625.221,"text":"你應該說我們很無奈啊今天他們談就談啊 為什麼拖我們呢我們要趕快搞定 現在苦哈哈的你可以想喔可以想喔 最近有發生一件事情喔很大的事情 今天盧秀燕這跟我們江副院長有關係喔江副院長當市長以後台中市長他就關心什麼 巨大捷安特"},{"start":28626.795,"end":28639.863,"text":"他的東西在美國海關被扣住了理由就是什麼強迫勞動看了幾個龍頭的一個大的產業怎麼會就這樣被美國扣住說強迫勞動這個盧秀燕"},{"start":28647.789,"end":28673.965,"text":"盧曉燕市長講的這個主席要好聽喔你要當市長頭他絕對反對絕對反對中科變成跑去美國某一個州裡面設類中科結果我們的這個政府院長說什麼反對555反對555不接受555因為你們要成立類科學園區啊"},{"start":28676.56,"end":28695.254,"text":"這個盧修業市場已經表示反對因為台灣的經驗喔可以被學習但是不能被複製啦不會去學習你們類中科啦整個台灣的產業科學院去一個一個套空搬去美國啊變這個樣子不會不會不會啊這樣台積電他就再次說明說很清楚的"},{"start":28701.638,"end":28723.874,"text":"美國現在就是台積電鎖定的 你來為什麼找捷安特捷安特 這個部長先不要走 也跟你沒關係等一下這個為什麼找捷安特他是自行車業的世界的龍頭 將你佔的廠商希望他到美國去討 譬如說PCB"},{"start":28725.251,"end":28749.691,"text":"龍頭就是希望到美國去希望你去美國美國打的真是算盤今天盧學恩講的就是內中科反對去某一個州設一個結果你們要推一個叫什麼內科學園區啊你們有沒有嘛 部長有沒有內科學園區去美國要搞一個內科學園區你要講四原則 台灣優先台灣優先我讚的政府對政府這個怎麼會這樣想呢"},{"start":28755.591,"end":28771.898,"text":"報告委員因為台灣我們先是立足台灣然後才佈局全球那佈局全球的話每一個人沒有辦法像台積電賺這麼多台積電的現金存量有超過上兆台積電他可以自己就是他有訂單的時候他就去賺"},{"start":28773.699,"end":28797.704,"text":"那但是其他的廠商如果要佈局全球可能沒有辦法自己單打獨鬥所以為什麼要把這個群聚的效果把這個群聚的效果在其他國家創造出來跟台灣做連結這樣才有可能成功但是不可以犧牲台灣的產業要像盧市長講的"},{"start":28799.264,"end":28824.412,"text":"如果把整個中科搬到美國去他反對 我也反對立足台灣優先 這個很清楚看得到嘛這個來講 所以你講說不接受五五分看起來很欺騙 結果都是假的因為你們要假的更多假的更多是台灣連根拔起一個人去一個人去拔去美國變這樣子了"},{"start":28828.032,"end":28857.627,"text":"我們了解委員的顧慮跟推測因為海外布局基本上是廠商必須有意願那邊會賺錢有訂單你們副院長已經講了副院長已經講了這樣子類科學園區模式他們如果要去的話我們就會把它形作一個產業聚落可以形成這個產業聚落當然是台灣跟美國必須要合作才有辦法把這個聚落形成因為照過去的科學園區的經驗上來講的話政府還是有一些角色的"},{"start":28858.147,"end":28871.612,"text":"比如說戰事的窗口等等一些情況美國需要你幫忙去蓋劇錄 需要嗎美國需要台灣的經驗去蓋蓋辦嗎不要忘了我們的科學運具其實是仿Silicon Valley的"},{"start":28872.6,"end":28900.735,"text":"其實 Silicon Valley 不是政府的力量我們是政府的力量 Silicon Valley 是比較是創新啦基本上是類似啦 科學園區就這樣子啦是先進的生產製造 對別忘了 這個科學園區之所以偉大因為新竹科學園區有一個台積電它半導體為主 佔了百分之七十幾很清楚 看得到 結果你們現在來講說我聽你蓋科學園區 美國是理想"},{"start":28903.068,"end":28930.424,"text":"台積電之所以偉大也是因為周邊的供應鏈或群聚所形成你講的重點他就是希望你的轉格的搬走他要講喔別忘了美國的商業部長盧克尼克講了他希望台積電類似台積電加上他的supply chain通通過去我剛才向委員報告了就是說就廠商來講那邊要有訂單而且可以賺錢他才會去"},{"start":28931.482,"end":28960.193,"text":"因為它是一個公司啊你們有在佈局啊我們是認為廠商的國際佈局是國家的一個政策可以協助但是一定要維持我們關鍵領先地位這個不容打折啊時間有限你們的回答我不滿意現在美國的農業部的次長來了有沒有可能要求大家都怕會要求零關稅喔"},{"start":28961.67,"end":28966.445,"text":"零關稅喔你可不可以承諾絕對反對零關稅農產品零關稅可不可以"},{"start":28969.505,"end":28994.861,"text":"我們在談對等關稅當中請部長說明我想我們在台美關稅對於市場建築的部分我想美國美光的期待台灣有台灣的要捍衛跟堅守的所以我們一定會堅持在糧食安全的前提之下還有維護產業那個我都聽不懂你就告訴我你就講一句話或者葛珮講一句話絕對不同意"},{"start":28995.939,"end":29012.224,"text":"美國的農產品零關稅進來台灣我跟委員報告齁零關稅你要看零關稅因為有的零關稅是對台灣有利的像原物料進來零關稅那我就跟你舉例啊農產品冷凍雞腿雞翅膀20%20%"},{"start":29021.46,"end":29046.505,"text":"我們現在所有的品項在談判的過程中我們現在還沒有辦法做最後的確認還沒有辦法做最後的確認第一個不可能全面准入而且是零關稅"},{"start":29048.666,"end":29063.153,"text":"另外在這個談判的過程當中我們必須要有取跟有捨那如果對我們的產業包括農業在發生衝擊的情況下農業部已經有180億的對產業的支持在裡面我們可以隨時支應我們不會讓業者發生這樣的困難我告訴兩位長官全世界WTO談判的時候有一項絕對保護就是農業"},{"start":29073.531,"end":29102.123,"text":"農業絕對保護 全世界都一樣包括美國一樣我們不能夠不保護否則那個陳部長你會變成歷史罪人 可可會變成歷史罪人我們還是會捍衛農民的權益跟糧食安全結果是農產品零貴稅讓他美國產品進來的話是你們就變成歷史罪人好 最後一個問題那個部長請回教育部教育部借這個任性趁火打劫"},{"start":29103.872,"end":29111.104,"text":"還要了這個產權合作一百億 笑死人來 我要講一個東西這個我的重點在這裡 讓我講完喔"},{"start":29115.013,"end":29133.969,"text":"產學合作企業都有錢啊為什麼產學合作你要編100億然後為什麼你沒有編勞動部為什麼沒有編我們的無薪假的勞工已經8000多了快要1萬了這些東西關稅都影響了一類類一個不編一個趁火打劫要了100億我絕對砍"},{"start":29136.981,"end":29156.913,"text":"為什麼產學有多 企業有錢啊你為什麼你還要便利百億委員講這個是不公平的因為現在我們這些大學裡邊包含委員曾經任教的學校裡邊很多的這個STEM的老師都然後我們現在提出一個類一學院就是希望能夠大學的理工科的老師"},{"start":29167.042,"end":29190.952,"text":"好謝謝那個部長是不是用書面再來回覆我們的這個賴委員謝謝賴委員謝謝卓院長陳冠廷委員質詢書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位我們請洪孟凱委員質詢"},{"start":29196.862,"end":29198.568,"text":"主席謝謝 麻煩請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":29212.614,"end":29238.2,"text":"務委員好 院長好國事如麻但是我們一起共同面對也共同承擔這一點是立法院跟行政院大家共同的事務那看到今天上午那麼多委員在針對這個關稅的議題我想也針對關稅議題之前還是要再請教一下因為現在花蓮的這個風災上午內政部李鴻元部長這邊有提到就說目前看差下來這個驗射壺的部分"},{"start":29239.281,"end":29251.604,"text":"滑落這次崩塌只有7000萬公噸那上面據統計還有2.5億噸的泥沙在上面換言之有3倍半的泥沙還在這次上面"},{"start":29252.708,"end":29277.643,"text":"這就如同是一個不定時炸彈也因此內政部李鴻元部長講說如果說發生五級地震或是豪大雨的話都還有可能崩塌下來我們不希望發生這個事情但是我們要做好超前準備跟超前部署請教 院長建議是說要討論遷村或者是有準確的預警機制我們現在有沒有開始規劃了農業部一直在做水位的預報遷村的計畫"},{"start":29278.855,"end":29304.466,"text":"沒有千村的計畫如果我們再經過評估 真的需要我們一定要評估對 千村你要評估它上面有2.5億噸的泥沙沒有610萬噸沒有610萬噸沒關係 這個是李洪源部長所提的這個內政部部長之前還請李洪源部長來做科技的預算我們下禮拜會繼續討論因此我們現在講的是料敵從寬但我們現在要問的是說有沒有千村的計畫"},{"start":29306.016,"end":29327.418,"text":"目前我們是說這個他從深的一個驗生壺變成一個淺疊的驗生壺造成未來的影響跟上次在目前為止還沒有不是我們沒有說沒有什麼樣的狀況會考慮要遷春因為院長請容許本席先提醒當初莫拉克風災的時候當時的中央政府馬政府馬上啟動家園重建政策"},{"start":29328.178,"end":29349.383,"text":"編列預算並且協調部會來跟中央地方政府來做統一的溝通也因此完成了小林村的一個遷村那我們現在請教這一次看到的這一個災害天災沒有人希望發生但是除了在您上禮拜有提到是說要開始救責以外我們要問的是這些災民何去何從"},{"start":29350.151,"end":29358.013,"text":"因為這些災民他現在回報講是說家園說實在話即便是泥沙清淤完畢可能很難居住啊"},{"start":29358.769,"end":29382.9,"text":"委員就責是要為了吸取這次的經驗為未來做改善有效的改善那我們現在知道已經至少有89戶都面臨可能選擇要遷村的需要那遷到哪裡去這個當然要評估再來所以我們現在才要問的是說有沒有這個計劃已經啟動了沒你目前說還沒有什麼時候要啟動至少我們知道89戶那什麼時候挨家挨戶會"},{"start":29384.521,"end":29402.454,"text":"一個禮拜之內就可以完成一個禮拜之內完成一個禮拜內會有啟動村村的計畫嗎89戶要先尋求因為我們所知道像原住民的這些災民或是其他的人會有各種不同的意見看到你早上講是說追加預算就可以"},{"start":29402.914,"end":29414.648,"text":"但是我們現在要看的是一個規模大小以及重點是不是錢的問題而是中央政府有沒有完整的規劃讓災民能夠有一個完整的安身立命之處"},{"start":29416.008,"end":29441.64,"text":"這不是追加或者是說新的條例二則一啊這也不是說再也提出我們要新的條例中央就說不要而是怎麼樣對於災民最好您同意吧新的條例不是不要我是說這個方式是最快的所以你也認為是說新的條例可以接受不是 這個方式是最快的你新的條例也沒有比現在追加快如果同意的話重點在於是說我們快撥錢可是如果說你沒有做事你沒有計畫"},{"start":29442.6,"end":29464.113,"text":"那撥錢怎麼用現在89戶至少我們在名單當中那是不是只有89戶也不一定喔所以你說一個禮拜一個禮拜內會清查完畢到底有多少人有意願圈村嗎那我們就來啟動這個圈村計畫我們現在的計畫是這樣國土署的計畫是這樣第一個復原重建裡面的並不會排斥圈村但是目前我們所知道目前沒有規劃"},{"start":29465.213,"end":29485.882,"text":"不是沒有規劃 目前我們所知道大部分人都希望離村不離鄉那如果是離村不離鄉的狀況之下跟遷村的願望所以你還是要找一個合適的地點來去做陸續的重建嘛這個就是本席現在在請教你但是目前你沒有辦法拿出具體的辦法來 院長我請教當初喔"},{"start":29486.803,"end":29511.997,"text":"慕拉克的時候有一個主責單位跟地方政府來做一個良好的溝通也因此才會有所謂編列預算跟協調部會這兩件中央應該要做的事情那請教未來我們花蓮這一個光復鄉的一個部分是會由誰來主責我們現在是透過中央災害應變中心來組成協調所但是我講的是說千春以及重建計劃未來因為看起來"},{"start":29514.124,"end":29527.53,"text":"我實在話講這跟我第二個問題要請教因為你也提到在這一次的救災裡面其實社會不信任也是一個很大的問題社會為什麼不信任其實我想你我心知肚明"},{"start":29528.564,"end":29551.227,"text":"過去這一年多執政黨發起的大罷免到現在真的撕裂台灣很嚴重但過去已經過去了我一而再再三強調我們既然在這個位置上面就要為服國立民的事來做可是缺乏信任是事實那所以說我現在要請教如果未來還是內政部部長當窗口還是農業部部長當窗口你覺得中央地方可以有良好溝通嗎"},{"start":29553.377,"end":29581.35,"text":"還是要指派一位政委能夠來統合協調甚至院長或是副院長來下來來去做這樣的一個統合協調兩位部長都很專業也很稱職那如果說我們需要跨部會的協調工作多我當然會指派一位政委來做所以未來會有政委來去做溝通協調工作需要的時候當然這麼做好來那院長我再請教喔你有提到是說希望行政立法兩院一起努力邀請韓國瑜院長共同攜手合作"},{"start":29582.253,"end":29583.684,"text":"那我請教你具體的做法是什麼"},{"start":29585.097,"end":29613.815,"text":"你想要怎麼合作我在跟立法院要透過請立法院能夠加速審議重大法案跟預算之前我當然希望透過立法院的程序能夠完成但為了這個程序能夠順暢我不排除我也會積極的跟韓院長做更多的溝通我們希望在彼此有共識的情況底下更多的拜會 更多的溝通 討論這個都是可以積極馬上做的工作因為本席這次陪同韓國瑜院長前往日本出訪這是跨黨派 民進黨"},{"start":29614.54,"end":29632.536,"text":"民眾黨 國民黨各推派代表共同前往我想韓國瑜院長展現他的高度並且他在日本不只一次提到行政院院長卓龍泰承諾願意要把我們世博的台灣館展覽的內容給帶回台灣讓國人看到"},{"start":29633.51,"end":29661.061,"text":"韓院長不吝嗇把舞台做給卓院長即便卓院長你沒有在他身邊那一樣的道理行政立法就應該要互相溝通開誠布公不是思考黨派的問題你可以同意吧我也多次在國內跟朋友講到說韓院長帶領這個團到世博去看到台灣館都覺得很驚訝 驚豔所以他也希望能夠把他帶回來我也認為韓院長這個提議我們原來文化部就已經有他的相關的"},{"start":29662.542,"end":29682.873,"text":"所以目前預算有排出來明年可以讓國人看到台灣館在台灣文化部有一部分那其他的部分因為他這個館我們現在瞭解光是硬體的這個設備就要高達20億因為他是分四年編列我們都瞭解院長四駁五年一次"},{"start":29688.052,"end":29706.193,"text":"你今年的世博結束到明年如果來展覽可能現在世界各國已經在思考說下一個四年下一個五年就2030的時候要展什麼了所以我們也希望是讓大家看到最新的科技而不是拖一年兩年嘛所以明年可以讓國人在台灣看到台灣館"},{"start":29707.606,"end":29733.684,"text":"我們已經開過一次內部的這個會議來針對這件事情所以我們才了解一些初步的過程我們現在要選擇的是他又如果要回來除了這個設備回來要落在哪裡是一個適當的地方落在哪裡就相對單純嘛但是我們現在講說行或不行讓國人能夠在明年看到台灣館我們努力這樣做啊因為他這個下個月就結束了我們希望一段時間能夠回來其實兩個禮拜後就結束來 院長"},{"start":29736.286,"end":29762.055,"text":"不過開誠布公就是要尊重制度就是不能分黨派我們上禮拜看到居然有我們的行政官員在民進黨團的群組裡面然後還跟民進黨的委員互相的來講出所謂要攻擊性的言辭這當然是民進黨的委員提到的可是我們其實國民黨的委員民眾黨的委員要布會首長的賴都不容易"},{"start":29763.686,"end":29792.802,"text":"如果說真的不分彼此不分大小眼而是看制度說話的話民進黨的委員可以那國民黨民眾黨能不能比較要求要求什麼把部會首長的賴一起加進來跟我們討論部會首長的通訊錄大家都有吧賴啊但重點是私賴啊賴他除了是公務我先請教一下院長你有沒有掌握因為上禮拜新聞我相信你有看到嘛你有在那個群組裡面嗎並沒有你沒有那有多少位我們部會官員在那群組裡面"},{"start":29794.782,"end":29798.53,"text":"這個因為我不在裡面我也沒有事後去了解那你的祕書長在那裡面啊"},{"start":29799.295,"end":29823.346,"text":"你沒有請教一下你的秘書長有多少人私下跟這個群組裡面會不會變成有多頭馬車院長只是一個部分然後黨團只是另外一個部分秘書長如果基於他了解整個訊息的傳遞那麼做事實的回應你也不了解有多少部會首長在那裡面我個人不了解因為我不在裡面那你認為這樣子的一個溝通到底是會更順暢還是會更"},{"start":29826.227,"end":29846.735,"text":"加深大家認為是說就是執政黨跟執政黨的委員溝通但是沒有在乎在野黨委員的意見我覺得跟執政黨跟在野黨的委員我們都有必須溝通的管道那如果這個群組的存在所以你認為是執政黨跟部會首長就是用LINE溝通就可以但是跟我們在野黨委員就是要公文廣返是嗎"},{"start":29850.465,"end":29878.573,"text":"這個部分有他個人 如果除了公務機之外他有他個人的選擇 我不能強迫院長本席還是希望尊重制度而不是因人設事這是很重要的一個議題來 院長再請教現在傳出來這個商務關稅的問題美國商務部長提到晶片55分我們的副院長第一時間講說不可能答應這樣的一個要求也沒有提及 也沒有討論 也沒有承諾"},{"start":29879.366,"end":29893.318,"text":"沒有提及沒有討論沒有承諾所以過去四五輪的談判都沒有提過沒有那為什麼商務部長會這樣突然間講出這樣的一個底線那代表美國的要求是明確的那過去這五輪裡面美國院長剛剛"},{"start":29894.799,"end":29920.931,"text":"在公開的講到是說美國都沒有提到晶片55分過去五輪談判都沒有提過美方他自己的說法我們不對這個說法做評論因為在談判當中但你剛剛已經有證實的是說過去沒有提到中方談判當中我們也會提出我們的想法美方提出想法但是我們不會把我們的想法對外公佈好 那我請教那如果說未來他要求64分73分有沒有可能同意"},{"start":29921.963,"end":29941.374,"text":"因為現在沒有討論這個議題啊我們的底線在哪裡因為沒有討論這個議題我現在沒有辦法來討論到說我們有什麼底線因為不在討論的議題當中過去到現在國人我們都希望政府部門好好談判但是每一次提到這個部分都會以雙方保密協議沒有辦法跟社會大眾溝通"},{"start":29944.576,"end":29958.544,"text":"現在美國商務部長已經很明確講要晶片五五分啊台積公司的1650億美金的這個投資案哪一年才會完全成立未來會不會觸及到台美晶片分配的問題"},{"start":29960.199,"end":29980.593,"text":"台積的這個1650億的投資到目前為止什麼時候會正式的量產都不知道但是我們國內的量會一直的增加所以這個比例上現在無法做一個定論但是讓我們國內在先進製程上持續領先不管是世代或是數量這個是政府的政策跟對業界的要求"},{"start":29982.014,"end":30006.111,"text":"我們過去都有一個我們要加一的政策也就是台灣本土一定要比世界各國的製程還要更先進一代我們還可以維持這樣承諾嗎過去這一些談判有沒有觸及到這個問題會維持不管什麼樣的壓力即便商務部長今天這是商務部長的意思還是美國總統川普的意思"},{"start":30006.926,"end":30034.992,"text":"他的要求 不知道但我們沒有辦法再去跟他做進一步的確認或是溝通嗎我們只會確認到最後的兩國的這個最後的協議但是到底那個主張是哪一位來那最後 院長時間有限我最後只是請教因為今天我看到一個新聞是美國總統川普表示他考慮從美國獲取的關稅收入中撥款計畫未來給美國民眾最高2000美金的紅包"},{"start":30036.709,"end":30052.276,"text":"6萬塊台幣他的裁員來源是什麼他裁員來源是說因為現在關稅的收入正在增加也因此他考慮把這個紅利撥放給全他們美國的全國民眾我們的普發現金是用我們的經濟共享成果是我們的納稅錢 超徵稅收也好或是說我們還稅銀也好那是我們人民的錢"},{"start":30062.861,"end":30076.17,"text":"但現在美國總統講的是說他用關稅的收入給世界各國收的關稅然後他要補發現金給民眾我請教身為中華民國的行政院長你可以接受這樣的說法嗎他用他關稅的手段做他國內的各種"},{"start":30077.169,"end":30102.486,"text":"這個政策這個我們不予置評但是我們自己我們沒有超徵稅收可以接受這樣的說法就是當他關稅拿了那麼多然後發給他們美國人民那某種程度上那些錢是從哪裡來從你我世界各國的關稅被多增加了被超徵了結果他去發給他們人民的現金我們自己都對我們國人沒有那麼多結果沒有想到美國總統他居然用這樣的一個手段中華民國行政院長可以接受嗎"},{"start":30103.567,"end":30122.397,"text":"我們直接說我們自力自強把自己國內的這個任何的經濟發展跟產業發展以及人民的這個消費的額度我們盡量把它壓制在平穩的狀況底下院長你還是沒有直接回答問題 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請李昆城委員質詢"},{"start":30140.911,"end":30142.755,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請卓院長"},{"start":30154.912,"end":30184.167,"text":"李文豪院長好 辛苦了今天我們是在討論這個經濟社會及民生國安任性的特別預算我們也希望說這次的報告完之後因為下個禮拜我們財政委員會就會把這個特別預算把它排進去然後排進去之後我們希望說這個在下個禮拜能夠順利出委員會然後如果一切順利的話有可能最快有可能在10月17號我們立法院就會通過這個特別預算"},{"start":30184.887,"end":30211.055,"text":"我先想請教一下院長雖然早上大家也問過了如果說真的能夠順利在10月17號之前我們就通過特別預算的話我們行政院需要多少的工作天來完成普發一萬的這些行政作業程序今天莊部長答覆過很多次我們先期的準備作業已經在開始了先期的準備已經在開始了"},{"start":30211.568,"end":30237.856,"text":"只要大院哪一天通過這個預算送請總統公告公告之後一個月內我們一定可以發放我也希望財政部先前的準備工作能夠更周延快速的進行能夠提前多快我們就多快發放一個月其實也還蠻久的其實大家有這個期待當然10月連假也比較多是不是能夠在10月底或11月初就有這個機會發放這1萬塊的現金"},{"start":30241.351,"end":30255.429,"text":"跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛院長說就是等我們的特別預算總統公布後我們一定會盡快的現在的相關的作業都已經在進行當中包含各種發放的一些方式"},{"start":30256.03,"end":30281.089,"text":"它的一個系統的設置網站的規劃還有一些名冊的在核對都在積極的進行所以等總統公佈以後我們一定會盡快的來做發放的作業而且會加強的宣導告訴民眾他在各種方式裡面他所需要備的一些相關文件證件很簡單的證件或者是說還有發放的期間都要做很好的宣導所以這個部分都在進行"},{"start":30281.75,"end":30297.967,"text":"現在有五種方式可以來領取對不對那你們的登記錄像是要設立一個網站對不對會 是要設計網站那這網站設計好了嗎都已經設計好而且目前也都在測試當中然後ATM領線郵局領線這個都準備好了"},{"start":30302.351,"end":30320.798,"text":"ATM的部分比上次還增加了一千多個機台總共會達到兩萬八千多個機台而且有16家的銀行都加入了所以它的普局率達到84%郵局有1294個支局都可以做現場臨櫃的領取"},{"start":30323.919,"end":30343.007,"text":"直接入帳跟照冊的也都完成了嗎直接入帳的部分要跟名冊去相當去做比對譬如說他有勞工保險年金的提出這些程序都那個都要做程式也都設計完了那現在就是相關名冊要去做比對因為第一個我們不能遺漏"},{"start":30343.487,"end":30368.767,"text":"第二個也不能重複領這是非常重要的那直接照冊的方式呢對 直接照冊的部分呢主要是針對所謂的幾個偏鄉的地區那這個準備好了嗎這個部分都在照冊對 都會做得准最好那如果按照財政部的準備其實總統公告之後應該馬上蠻快的就可以來發這1萬塊了那會儘快一定會儘快那院長11月初有機會嗎"},{"start":30369.748,"end":30394.617,"text":"我完全看得出委員內心的要求我們會盡量朝這個方向來走因為我們準備好但是我們現在今年要多做的一個就是我們這個反詐騙的行為所以我等一下就要問說我們準備好了詐團其實也準備好了對 我們要成立一個打擊詐欺小組來全面的因應這個部分因為現在還沒有發就已經在網路上現在就是說我們網站還沒開始就已經有一些就已經有這個造假的網站已經開始了"},{"start":30396.479,"end":30411.68,"text":"我們就是宣傳其實我們在宣傳就是說我們一定會有GOV最後是GOV結尾的那我們也不會發簡訊我們也不會發email都不會嘛對不對所以在我們在宣導的時候一定會加強的告訴民眾要去辨識當然我們還有一個"},{"start":30412.467,"end":30430.247,"text":"打擊詐欺組這個專組然後由內政部次長當組長會去配合跟速發部一起都會合作不要說這個還沒有領到一萬民眾就先被騙走了好不好這真的要注意謝謝莊部長那再請教一下卓院長這次花蓮光復鄉不幸的風災"},{"start":30434.331,"end":30452.38,"text":"當然我們全力在做家園的重建也從產值超人看到我國全社會的防衛韌性很多的產值超人到光復上去剛開始當然有一點點大家都很熱血"},{"start":30454.982,"end":30478.779,"text":"剛開始有點雜亂無章但是後來中央介入之後志工也能夠做引導讓我們這些熱情的志工能夠帶一顆心去然後把這個地方能夠重建家園但是我要提醒行政院就是說其實花蓮他們之前其實在四月份的時候就已經有做過這一個陳正任系列演習了"},{"start":30479.603,"end":30502.731,"text":"他們今年4月的時候然後當時候縣長徐真偉他就說這次我們是跟中央協作然後希望藉由這次無腳本的推演提升全民防衛還有災難應變的韌性所以其實在今年4月的時候花蓮已經有演練過可是如果風災一來的時候你會發現說演練"},{"start":30504.031,"end":30518.978,"text":"跟實際上的情況差距還是相當的大風災來的時候就現在結果花蓮縣政府剛開始的時候還是一團亂在演習的時候好像這個其實我們中央也有下去看也好像這個按部就班來做但是實際上"},{"start":30520.259,"end":30545.962,"text":"真的發生這個危險、災難的時候就跟我們演習有一段差距其實我們賴總統也是相當地重視全社會韌性的防衛他自己也擔任全社會防衛韌性委員會的召集人他也特別提到說希望能夠藉由全社會韌性委員會強化我們的國防、民生、災防、民主這四大韌性"},{"start":30547.464,"end":30564.666,"text":"這一次光復鄉的災害當然不幸但是我們也把它看成是一次社會任性的一個實戰的一個演練這個實戰的演練其實不是只有我們自己國人關心當然國際也在關心但是也不要忘了中共他們也在看"},{"start":30565.738,"end":30587.127,"text":"如果我們在一場天災的過程當中我們沒辦法在很短的時間之內很有秩序的把災後的重建做完之後中國也會看你如果台灣遇到一次的風災或是接連的風災你沒有辦法在一個短時間裡面做好家園重建的話"},{"start":30587.967,"end":30611.781,"text":"他也會看出我們這一個重建的一個任性的一個破口這我要提醒但是這個我要建議就是說因為我們現在中央有這個中央災害防救匯報院長是召集人我們有設有中央災害的防救委員會副院長是召集人當然內政部長都有非常重要的角色但是"},{"start":30613.022,"end":30637.551,"text":"現在的災害都是複合性的災害風災、水災、土石流然後地震可以衍生其他的土石流水災等等都有現在的災害不是只有單一的都是一個複合性的災害那現在按照我們這個中央災害防救委員會的分工風災、震災、地震是屬於內政部那水災是屬於經濟部"},{"start":30639.656,"end":30666.308,"text":"土石流是屬於農業部交通事故是屬於交通部我們各個部會都有看起來好像都有在負責但是從這次的馬太安西連社會就發現說那其實也是跨了好幾個部會這個當然也有學者專家之前就在建議了是不是要仿效美國建立這一個聯邦級級事務的管理署就是我們自己有一個防災的總署"},{"start":30667.408,"end":30678.362,"text":"統合中央跟地方的權責保存傳承每一次災害應變的知識台灣才不會在每一次災害發生的時候都要從零開始那院長怎麼看"},{"start":30679.882,"end":30705.807,"text":"謝謝委員我們也是從多年來的災害的經驗我們現在包括你剛說的中央防災的體系組織包括我們中央災害應變中心目前的整個組織都有一致在精進那這一次大量的土石流這樣流下來 淹涉湖倒是過去真的比較少見這麼大量我們之前在做演練的時候甚至是假設是海嘯那時候我們想說台灣會有海嘯但是我們也把各種情境都納進來了"},{"start":30706.707,"end":30735.186,"text":"那因為這個樣子 我覺得我們看到這一次的狀況我們可以檢討我們的疏失但是我們不能暴露我們的缺點這個缺點要馬上及時的改正回來我請內政部 經濟部還有我們其他的相關的各單位馬上來研究這整個災害的防救的過程當中我們是不是還缺少哪一塊或是要加強哪一塊如果能夠成立一個更有效的專責機構有效率的組成的話我想也是人民對政府的期待我們做這樣的努力"},{"start":30735.926,"end":30752.062,"text":"就是說我們有一個中央的一個災害防救的匯報您是擔任召集人但是我剛才講過了現在是複合性的一個災害會牽扯到各個部會如果有一個專責性的不管它是叫署還是叫什麼一個專責單位來負責來統籌不論是院長副院長來統籌整個這一個救災的機制的話"},{"start":30760.523,"end":30774.698,"text":"院長會不會認為說至少在下次面對這種事情的時候能夠更有效的統合各個部會我們現在匯報或是我們的災防辦他都沒有實際上可以去執行的量度所以畢竟都在各部會台風來的時候還有淹水的時候"},{"start":30780.68,"end":30806.037,"text":"而且這個土石流的時候我們會有不同的單位來做不同的組織那我認為未來這個復型災害這樣的頻繁我們應該成立我們應該想像有一個可以專責的統合的單位來做處理那現在部會跟災防辦我個人認為不夠我會跟部會來做好好的考量未來怎麼樣儘快的我說我們要檢討但是不會把我們的缺點暴露出來"},{"start":30806.917,"end":30832.639,"text":"我是覺得說每一次都把它當成是一個社會任性的一個演習我們希望說災害降到最低但是我們也希望說每一次你所發現的能夠改善的作為下一次精進的措施所以我才提到說其實這也不是這一次有人提到其實每次發生這種複合性災難的時候就有人提到說是不是我們也請中央應變中心指揮官來說說看他的想法跟經驗來 劉部長"},{"start":30834.54,"end":30857.351,"text":"謝謝李委員我想譬如說我以丹納斯來看可以看到電網韌性的部分或者是通訊韌性的部分那這個透過我們現在立法院全力支持之後電網韌性跟通訊韌性都已經在加強當中那在這一次有關於土石流的部分我也可以引用一位台大教授他所提到他所知道全世界其他的土石流的災對不起不是土石流就是這個驗射物的災害"},{"start":30857.911,"end":30873.732,"text":"台灣的水準是在水準平均之上那當然我們不能夠引以為傲因為我們畢竟還有很多死傷而且我們到現在為止仍然維持紅色警戒也就是表示說天后不可預測還有災害的時候有很多人也在災難的現場"},{"start":30875.114,"end":30901.102,"text":"所以我們仍然維持紅色警戒是表示要持續監控而且監控的力道不會比發生之前還要來得少我們現在就集合包括國科會包括農業部或是包括全台灣所有對於水利或是地震所有的這些專家來看看我們下一次要怎麼做會更精進我認為每一次的精進都是提供我們全社會防衛韌性最好的一個素材也希望全民能夠支持尤其在預算方面"},{"start":30901.802,"end":30925.31,"text":"這一點我們其實都保持一個非常開放的態度來接受各方的意見再檢討我再請教一下院長今年度我們除了現在在審查的即將審查的特別預算之外其實還有其他5個總共有6個特別預算在今年度我們都會做審查今年度的這6個特別預算稅出的規模將近5000億"},{"start":30931.033,"end":30949.211,"text":"這個舉借的債務是大概2852億佔比是57%左右其實不低啦再請教一下院長現在國防部是不是在臨底之前還會再送一個特別預算是有關於不對稱作戰的特別條例還有預算送到立法院來做審議"},{"start":30950.787,"end":30978.272,"text":"請部長來跟說明現在我們對於國家安全國防安全的需求可以考慮到政府財政的能力目前國防部有什麼樣具體的這些時間有限部長就簡短回答是不是在年底之前有這個不對稱作戰的特別條例會送來立法院我們有關不對稱及防衛任性的部分我們會在下半年會提送條例然後送行政院審議然後另外會提出相關的預算"},{"start":30979.152,"end":30987.52,"text":"大概預算規模大概是多少現在還在編制當中所以我想還沒有做最後的定案媒體有在傳出大概是介於7000億兆、1兆之間"},{"start":30990.124,"end":31016.07,"text":"我想最後都還是要有行政院來布裡面還在涵算各種的需求目前都還沒有到院裡面來現在還在布裡面還沒有送到還沒有送到行政院但是預計會在年底送到立法院來做審議就對了年底以前大概這個不對稱作戰的重點是什麼就是你們買的武器大概重點是哪些"},{"start":31017.715,"end":31041.397,"text":"相關當然我們會有軍購商購還有偽製的項目那主要的一些重點當然就從名稱上就可以看得出來就是在強化我們的不對稱的戰力以及我們的防衛的韌性那屬於這一個我們認為應該要擺入這個特別預算的一個項目那我們想要買的這些不對稱的這些武器有跟美方談好的嗎"},{"start":31042.778,"end":31058.553,"text":"當然我們會跟美方來進行溝通讓我們提出我們的需求讓美方也會做出相對應的承諾這樣子對於在關稅談判上面有幫助嗎我想談判的這個我們好"},{"start":31065.626,"end":31070.768,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請徐欣穎委員質詢謝謝江副院長 本席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":31101.11,"end":31128.075,"text":"區委員好院長好院長首先請教您這個在今年度114年度行政院在您手上行政院目前正在進行的特別預算案有幾個案剛剛對 剛剛答案有出來幾個他剛剛說有六個三個是以前的年度的那我們現在就是這個還有那個風災的"},{"start":31131.464,"end":31160.323,"text":"因為今天要質詢的這個還沒通過嘛所以不算在質詢所以是五個加上今天這個就六個那加上我們年度的總預算就是去年通過的我們110年度的所以是七個所以我曾經跟我們主計總署講說主計人員非常忙碌手上不同的預算在手上還要精細的算一般正常的國家應該不需要那麼多帳本吧"},{"start":31160.891,"end":31185.499,"text":"是啊 但是今天你看我們風災也來您是不是史上這個帳本最多的行政院長我希望把它算得清楚第一個風災也來 談判也來所以我們會做了很多的這個特別預算做這兩個 然後前面 還有前面的但是我們看到的是有些特別預算的內容它其實不需要用特別預算它其實用常態預算就可以"},{"start":31186.411,"end":31212.903,"text":"如果委員提到的是國防 教育我們剛剛有幾個委員也是很多委員都這麼認為我們都有做什麼的說明那我也希望說在委員會審查的時候容許我們的部委首長能夠用詳實的資料再向委員說明請求能夠支持但是這個等於是常態預算你放到特別預算這個是不合乎預算法的"},{"start":31213.294,"end":31233.019,"text":"當然有它符合預算法的條件所以像這一次我們就拉回來我們今天要審的這個因應國際情勢強化社會經濟以及民生國安的韌性特別預算這裡面有很多都可以是放到明年的總預算"},{"start":31234.355,"end":31260.296,"text":"所以本席是認同我們並不是反對這些預算但是不能用特別預算就是不能用因為這樣會規避很多的我們包含舉債剛剛這個這一個手上就包含我們今天要質詢的這第六項這六個的我們的這個表格我想請院長看一下我們整個的"},{"start":31262.531,"end":31286.038,"text":"稅出規模高達4900多億將近5000億他的舉債也超過了一半佔了57.2%2852.22億所以這表示特別預算常態化這個是不對的再來就是舉債我們等於是把未來世代的錢我們提早預支這個是我們對子孫的一種掠奪"},{"start":31287.795,"end":31311.784,"text":"這個部分我們希望如果是可以放在明年的預算的你們追加進來追加進來我們也可以接受所以不是反對預算而是這個不要規避預算法預算法該怎麼樣財政紀律財政部長也剛好來跟委員報告兩件事情再請部長來說明第一個是"},{"start":31314.418,"end":31327.797,"text":"這個特別預算都符合預算法的規定我們有它的特殊的情況再來如果這個錢要放到明年的中央政府總預算債券追加我怕明年我們舉債的額度已經沒有辦法再承受這樣子"},{"start":31328.678,"end":31351.998,"text":"特別預算就是在規避就是在超過我們舉債的這個範圍跟委員報告在預算法裡面本來就有年度預算跟特別預算兩者相輔相成年度預算是一般施政的作為那特別預算是因應重大的一個情勢編列但是不管總預算跟特別預算都納入債務管控絕對沒有規避所謂的債務的管控"},{"start":31356.946,"end":31376.25,"text":"那個預算一樣納入債務管控特別預算有說要緊急或重大工程好那院長我想跟院長說現在我們坊間大家知道很多獨居老人突然很感恩川普川普沒有搞一個關稅你還不會想到要幫他弄獨居老人的特別預算"},{"start":31377.994,"end":31393.598,"text":"還有高等教育高等教育這些人才如果沒有川普來弄一個關稅我們沒有想到要幫他弄特別預算當國際的官貿秩序這樣重新調整之後各國都是要衝擊我們對我們的科技業的"},{"start":31397.419,"end":31421.356,"text":"人才培育也必須加碼快速所以我們做這個工作也因為這個樣子對我們消費的行為也會產生現在想像不到的任何的衝擊我們認為更弱勢的這些獨居老人弱勢者中低收入 負低收入我們也會加碼來給他們多一層的照顧希望他們在度過這樣的過程當中不會影響他們基本上的生活所以這個跟整個"},{"start":31422.857,"end":31444.7,"text":"川普的關稅其實沒什麼相關所以這一個部分我就說嘛所以這些獨居老人還有這些弱勢你們都突然想到用特別預算來發來給他們加發一些金額如果沒有這個關稅對產業可能造成衝擊那國內整個消費行為可能造成一些衝擊"},{"start":31445.541,"end":31466.052,"text":"那當然沒有特別的需要那我們是率先預先想到了這些也希望委員能夠知曉到底是社會的弱勢的弱勢這次你們提的支持產業安定就業我們當然也認同也支持那所以大家還發現有一點就是覺得卓院長跟我們賴總統很特別全世界各國"},{"start":31467.273,"end":31486.907,"text":"包含日本 包含德國大家都被美國關稅搞得非常的頭暈腦脹但是他們都沒有想到說弄一個特別預算或者是說特別弄等於有一些常態預算也放到特別預算裡面"},{"start":31487.347,"end":31506.748,"text":"但是只有我們中華民國政府各國對產業的支持都有這樣的一個方式存在沒關係 因為我們也認同支持產業780億支持勞工安定就業但是我們想知道你780億你哪些產業你錢框了你怎麼框出這780億"},{"start":31508.871,"end":31518.16,"text":"我們最重要是對中小微企業能夠加強不論他的貸款 他的保障他的研發升級以及他的多元市場的開發你怎麼評定"},{"start":31519.588,"end":31542.812,"text":"你怎麼評定你要給誰這780億你要給誰我們當初4月4號在算的時候就已經做一個高推估30%的一個稅率同時他如果因為美國關稅讓他的營業額有下降的時候他必須提出這樣的一個證明下降10%的時候所以現在有提出證明的你們他有提出申請的提出申請的你們就會我們預先做移緩計期說1000多件"},{"start":31547.773,"end":31568.631,"text":"現在有一千多件來已經收件了包括貸款的補助也好也有一個是那個是針對企業產業的部分我們也想知道我們支持勞工的安定就業150億150億我們想知道你到底勞工你面對哪些勞工"},{"start":31570.916,"end":31600.087,"text":"你面對哪些勞工那這些勞工他要上什麼課幾節課誰來承辦你這150億你怎麼評估出來的跟委員報告我們評估遇到對等關稅的衝擊所以有些勞工跟產業他可能會遇到比如說減班休息或者是有時候會遇到減貨狀況現在減班休息的我看到最新數據8505人是那我們希望這150億下去你是止痛止血還是你可以長期造血你告訴我"},{"start":31601.055,"end":31625.333,"text":"這裡面第一個這裡面我們給現在給勞工的支持的措施裡面有包括薪資的補貼有包括課程的補助也有包括給予企業他要在自己來做辦訓或者是聯合辦訓相關的這個那你有瞭解現在他要辦培訓上什麼課上幾節課誰來承辦這些在基層都可以進行嗎"},{"start":31627.014,"end":31656.274,"text":"執行率跟委員說明現在比方說有沒有什麼KPI我們的分數有辦訓企業也可以依照自己的需求對勞工的能力或培訓的需求來辦訓我們在目前的任性特別條例的特別預算裡面我們也把辦訓的支持的經濟上面支持的額度也在提高所以我們是整體性的來希望對於減班休息或者是"},{"start":31656.714,"end":31669.449,"text":"受到關稅衝擊的老公朋友來給予他最大的支持跟幫助那你這個錢花完了以後怎麼辦你這個錢花完了以後他有轉型嗎他未來的生計怎麼辦這一個有納在裡面嗎"},{"start":31672.471,"end":31700.176,"text":"第一個我們當然希望減半休息的勞工可以盡量留在他原本的職場因為很多中高齡的勞工如果你要他去轉職他會比較辛苦第二個因為我剛才講到我們可能有包括訓練的部分訓練的部分當然企業會依照產業他們現在在對於如果產業不轉型你這個產業碰到這個因為關稅的危機有很多可能他真的就所以產業轉型的部分應該經濟部這邊其實有很多對於產業"},{"start":31701.276,"end":31717.985,"text":"轉型跟創新相關的補助我想這都是相輔相成的那本席想請教院長我們現在有關汽車關稅的美國的汽車進口的這個談判我們預估未來會是零關稅嗎"},{"start":31720.271,"end":31736.349,"text":"我們現在沒有辦法做這樣的預估沒辦法預估那美方有提出一些想法對全世界來通用那現在依據台灣區車輛工會 同業工會來估計因為你現在沒辦法預估那如果真的最後是調降至零"},{"start":31737.17,"end":31740.995,"text":"的時候那他們預估將影響新台幣847.74億的產值還有8.26萬的相關從業人員那我請問這個安置計畫有準備嗎"},{"start":31752.887,"end":31767.931,"text":"這個前提0影響多少產業的金額這個前提現在我們先不設定但是我們就希望透過你們先不設定那如果突然間我說那個前提我們先不設定但是整個來講我們是透過這個產業的支持未來出現什麼樣的衝擊我們就用這樣的"},{"start":31770.092,"end":31785.104,"text":"特別預算當中對產業的支持全面的給他做一些必要的協助這是我們現在想法但是我剛剛委員說的那個零跟影響800多億影響8.2萬多人那個前提現在我們沒有辦法做這樣的確定我怕我收出去以後"},{"start":31785.865,"end":31807.508,"text":"大家都說行政院講說我們是零關稅你不說但是你們內部有沒有評估那我順便問因為我們馬上要審總預算明年的總預算請問我們行政院這邊預估對美關稅減收的總額會是多少一定要到確定之後我們才能做確實的一個所以我們這次送來的預算裡面也沒有去看這個"},{"start":31808.976,"end":31820.48,"text":"我們可能關稅我們在稅入的部分我們有照我們的推估財政部在稅入的時候有做這樣的推估但是那個推估就是在當時我們的高推估情況底下去做的"},{"start":31821.412,"end":31847.803,"text":"接著本席想請教院長我們在照顧民生整個預算有3070億元這裡面有包含剛剛本席特別提到的獨居老人的關懷服務我們想請教你現在獨居老人到底對象有多少我們有請內政部應該有核酸出來獨居老人我們請他們來說明一下"},{"start":31849.847,"end":31851.028,"text":"各位報告我們現在這個有估計的大概是70萬人"},{"start":31859.244,"end":31880.757,"text":"有70萬的獨居老人你怎麼估出來的我們從各縣市的單位報上來的那有列冊所以已經請各縣市報上來對 先盤點然後我們預估在未來兩年這70萬的獨居老人都能夠完成訪視然後依據評估的結果來安排後續的服務"},{"start":31881.998,"end":31903.197,"text":"本席手上看到內政部推估是97萬6925人那看到衛福部的調查報可能這比較舊的是39萬你說70萬那你們造冊的你們目前造冊的有70萬嗎造冊已經有70萬那你打算怎麼關懷我們除了這個訪視之外"},{"start":31905.299,"end":31927.368,"text":"就是這個兩年內我們是預估兩年內我們預算編兩年兩年內都要訪視至少一次然後訪視完會分級管理有些他比較欠缺智力需要協助生活的跟可以智力的分開你要訪視70萬人我請教你你有評估你訪視的人力足夠嗎"},{"start":31929.029,"end":31942.183,"text":"所以才需要這個特別預算知不知道關懷人力有嚴重的缺口這塊部長知道嗎我們了解所以才需要有這筆預算來支持所以這筆預算有了你就可以 你就有辦法"},{"start":31943.191,"end":31966.253,"text":"人力就具足了嗎我們會努力的把它完成這個不容易達成啦但是我們是希望不容易達成但是錢已經都編這麼多了因為時間的關係最後本席要跟院長說我們的這個特別預算常態化從民進黨執政這九年多來這太明顯了因為特別預算它是特別預算你怎麼可以"},{"start":31967.094,"end":31992.315,"text":"用这种平常的预算所以我们就发现特别预算它的执行成效非常差然后这个项目整个的规划也不好所以我们希望院长我们特别预算是不是可以委由公正独立的第三方机构那它把特别预算的项目能够做成本效益分析以及执行后的整个的追踪考核"},{"start":31992.54,"end":32010.638,"text":"委員您放心 行政院編列預算 組織總署都會做很嚴謹的管控那我們委託一個第三方 這應該不符合政府的體制我們更希望的是 也嚴謹的管控好 OK 謝謝 謝謝徐議員 謝謝卓院長 時間到"},{"start":32017.752,"end":32044.705,"text":"謝謝賴瑞榮委員質詢書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請謝依鳳委員質詢江副院長好我想要請卓院長跟龔明星部長卓院長跟龔部長"},{"start":32047.278,"end":32048.199,"text":"廖長好動作比較快先來現在美國關稅我們目前是20加m那請問什麼時候會抵定還是已經都談好了只是你們都沒跟國人報告"},{"start":32071.072,"end":32094.445,"text":"跟委員再次報告我們這技術性的磋商都已經完成了但最後的總結報告總結會議還沒有完成總結會議之後才會有這個具體的這個最終的協議那總結會議你看世界各國都有大概一定的模式會這樣處理面對面的處理那現在我們這個政府院長已經回到國內了那隨時當美方"},{"start":32095.385,"end":32119.237,"text":"把雙方各別的最終的條件都內部處理好的時候會通知我們就進行最後的總結會議總結會議的形式到底怎麼進行我們現在當然要尊重雙方的談判過程所以還沒總結會議還是已經訂好了你不跟我們講沒有 這個絕對沒有訂好了以後我們就會拿到國會來尋求國會的同意這個是必然的程序"},{"start":32119.887,"end":32141.339,"text":"所以因為之前川普在8月5號的時候說希望台積電投資美國3000億那我們知道最近商務部長Luknyk他又接受NewsNation的電視節目的訪問他也提到了還加碼他說"},{"start":32143.099,"end":32171.365,"text":"美國所需的晶片裡面只有2%是本土生產美國本土生產其他高達95%都是在台灣生產所以他們希望在本屆的川普總統任期結束前能夠有40%的美國所需的晶片在美國生產我想要請問的就是"},{"start":32173.036,"end":32191.135,"text":"這個部分有沒有談到那談到了是不是有像昨天鄭院長他回來的時候他在記者會裡面談到了是擴大投資的台灣方案"},{"start":32192.416,"end":32205.639,"text":"美國擴大投資擴大投資美國的台灣方案那這個內容到底是什麼是不是其實就是已經把半導體整個移往美國"},{"start":32206.844,"end":32226.729,"text":"絕對沒有上下游都遺忘沒有啊剛剛跟委員報告我們就是說比如說台積電來講的話他承諾的這個1650億美元大概會蓋六座的晶圓廠在台灣現在兩奈米以下的廠就已經超過這個數字了而且將來在中科還有四座"},{"start":32227.449,"end":32238.699,"text":"然後現在的高雄已經有五座了再加上竹科可能將來南科還會擴敞當然剛才很多委員有問到了就是"},{"start":32240.397,"end":32265.191,"text":"美國希望我們除了台積電以外中下游的產業也共同的赴美去那才能夠完成整個半導體的供應鏈那你也提到了不然什麼是G2GG2G的意思就是說我們現在就是說台灣之所以可以成功因為有好的這個產業肌肉cluster"},{"start":32266.071,"end":32286.783,"text":"現在就是說如果台積電他自己可以去而且他有他的一些方法可以跟美國政府去談但是有很多的包括中小企業或其他產業沒有辦法這樣做所以他一定是要形成一個聚落才有可能成功所以這些半導體的相關產業是跟政府談還是跟台積電談"},{"start":32288.963,"end":32315.411,"text":"對我們政府來講的話如果台灣的廠商有興趣做全球佈局美國也是他可能的一個據點的話那我們就會可能怎麼樣去跟美國政府談到說你可不可以給我們一個聚落的行程然後這邊來講的話包括土地水電或者是行政上的措施給我們更方便甚至於我們可以談到比較好的優惠這對廠商的成功率是提高的那聚落在哪裡"},{"start":32317.651,"end":32342.648,"text":"在鳳凰城在德州在哪裡那個還是要看企業是企業為主不是這是企業為主現在當然企業界裡面當然TIMA是比較積極的就是電電工會他們也蠻積極的那我們可以跟他合作來談說什麼樣的地點是比較合適的那是不是已經有地點了但是還沒有開始談因為還沒開始談嗎還沒有到那一步"},{"start":32343.716,"end":32365.097,"text":"所以目前大家原定的10月底就關稅可以談判結束你們認為會結束嗎這個沒有辦法因為我們跟美國談之間還是要談到最好的結果所以目前所談的裡面有沒有包含了232"},{"start":32367.51,"end":32387.78,"text":"一併會考量現在已經談了嗎232已經談了嗎一併會考量沒有我是說這一次去已經談了嗎就是會考量是在談的裡面沒有錯已經開始在談了嘛對不對那所以這一次的特別預算裡面到底有沒有包含232條款"},{"start":32389.661,"end":32406.256,"text":"所受影響的產業還是未來我們如果等232談出來以後我們這個特別預算還要再重新有一個232條款的特別預算那個鋼鋁的部分事實上232已經實施了所以對於國內的鋼鋁的這個協助我們已經開始實施了"},{"start":32411.5,"end":32437.448,"text":"所以他們也可以申請我們的相關的一些協助所以232的鋼鋁部分是包含在這一次的特別預算裡面是 董哥委員報告232對於蘇美鋼鋁及其製品加徵25%的關稅是從3月12號生效所以我們這個特別條例特別預算就是從今年3月12號開始我們追溯開始計算所以明顯看到是涵蓋在裡面的"},{"start":32437.648,"end":32460.411,"text":"好 那還沒有談的232還沒有談的部分也會包含在這個裡面嗎會啊 因為本來就是說也會包含在這次的特別預算裡面所以我們不需要有一個新的如果未來232影響的層面因為我們有保留我們這一次是5500億嘛保留有200億如果真的不夠需要的話我們會再提出預算來到大院"},{"start":32461.542,"end":32485.868,"text":"所以這一次的特別預算當然我要說的是這次的特別預算就已經包含了232條款的是不是對至少在鋼鋁的部分適用上是包括在裡面的3月12號就生效的鋼鋁部分已經包含在裡面所以你覺得還是有可能談判的結果不如預期那我們還要必須要追加特別預算對不對如果200億不夠的話我很有信心"},{"start":32487.668,"end":32511.883,"text":"我們不要做這樣的預期談判團隊第一個非常辛苦而且據理力爭 保持我國的競爭力大家都不知道結果技術性的磋商談完最後的總結會議跟最後的協定還沒有談成這要談到那個程度大家才會定案下來 您記得嗎"},{"start":32513.664,"end":32529.023,"text":"政府總統曾經有一個圖表他是直接把它劃掉所以你們那麼有信心那我問你喔那這樣子對等關稅結束以後如果談判整個完成以後那你認為對台灣GDP的影響是什麼不會有影響"},{"start":32530.738,"end":32556.629,"text":"反而是增加嗎報告委員我們現在就是說當然這個關稅影響難免對不同的產業有不同的影響因為美國的關稅事實上如果我們的產業面對的現在我們20%如果面對的是日韓來講我們當然是不利的但是如果我們的競爭對手這個產業如果競爭對手是中國的話他在美國市場反而是獲利的"},{"start":32557.749,"end":32571.641,"text":"所以說每一個產業面對的美國的關稅他可能的條件是不太一樣的所以就是說需要衝擊的產業我們就去趕快協助他但是可以獲益的產業我們就協助他去搶佔這個市場"},{"start":32573.431,"end":32586.568,"text":"對 我們當然是希望說我們藉由這次的關稅調整我們可以調整我們的全球布局嘛 是不是但是全球布局裡面你們也沒有給大家看到比較明顯的這個"},{"start":32588.45,"end":32613.87,"text":"明顯的結果是不是你只有說舉辦這個我們舉辦外貿協會希望他們來台灣購買怎麼樣子現在是目前的規劃的階段那個是訂單的多元市場的爭取全球佈局的部分就剛剛提到的可能要到海外做據點這個據點也有分比如說它是生產據點還是貿易拓銷的據點這兩個我們都會協助"},{"start":32617.769,"end":32624.974,"text":"所以未來我們到底要往哪裡佈局就是說在美國還是歐洲還是到東南亞"},{"start":32626.614,"end":32650.75,"text":"會 我們會跟廠商做都會做一些討論就好像我們跟TIMA就是電電工會來講他們也有講比如說他們在有幾個地點比如說可能在歐洲他有興趣是波蘭然後北美可能是墨西哥等等的一些情況那我們就會跟他共同討論怎麼樣共同讓他這個佈局可以比較順利而且事實上是對台灣是有益的"},{"start":32651.724,"end":32679.753,"text":"所以這樣子的話你整體的規劃你認為關稅談判結束對臺灣的GDP是正向影響還是負向影響報告委員所有的都是這樣就是說當這樣的不確定的這些影響來的時候看你怎麼做你做得好你是獲益的就好像川普1.0 2018年美中貿易戰大家也講可能是衝擊COVID-19大家也是衝擊但是這兩次我們都度過了反而是更好"},{"start":32680.353,"end":32685.746,"text":"所以現在就是說我們也要有信心大家一致團結的話我相信我們也會度過這個挑戰"},{"start":32686.809,"end":32713.762,"text":"所以你是有信心說我們未來會更好是不是你要講啊以前主計長就敢講有沒有是不是以前主計長就敢講啊就講說他會好啊那所有的全球的那個所有機構都預測說台灣的經濟會不好那你就要講說台灣經濟會好啊是不是 卓院長我那個五月份的時候我就講我們今年的這個"},{"start":32715.083,"end":32736.105,"text":"出口可能會超過五千多億今年的出口是因為搶單嘛是不是不只 我們半導體也很好對 半導體現在也在搶單嘛是不是那未來呢因為未來我們現在已經看到無薪假的產生啦那還有一些官場潮啊這都是有在最棒的委員就是說面臨這樣的局勢之下"},{"start":32738.021,"end":32757.796,"text":"每一個產業它所處的競爭力不一樣所以我們要針對比較可能受衝擊的產業給予更大的一些協助尤其是傳統產業跟中小微企業我們要花更多的力氣來支持他們因為這些產業是台灣重要的產業 台灣的根"},{"start":32759.197,"end":32780.643,"text":"可是問題是在中小微企業的時候他很難感受到政府的協助因為在人力的部分或者是在培訓方面他有沒有一個明確的方向因為他沒有辦法有明確的方向我們現在跟中小企業座談我們也講就是說尤其是傳統產業他們人力上可能在人才的競爭上"},{"start":32781.983,"end":32803.529,"text":"可能對於高科技產業處於比較弱勢但是我們也講就是說我們會在全台的地方設立很多的這些訓練機構甚至於在學生時代的時候就產學合作的方式幫他們訓練專業性的人才甚至於訓練怎麼樣運用AI提升他們效力的這樣的人才"},{"start":32804.637,"end":32831.802,"text":"那這個也有補助但是我們看到了我們要把這些中小微企業或傳產企業受衝擊的產業要導到可能未來會有成長的產業例如說好像無人機產業也好或者是其他的相關產業也好但是目前看起來好像是也沒有協助這些中小企業去做這樣影響是中小企業不要還是政府"},{"start":32832.142,"end":32859.762,"text":"沒有主動去協助報告委員就是說當這個特別預算假要通過以後我們現在已經開始組這個其實你們現在都已經在用了我們現在已經在用了啦對不對我們接著下去就會組織這個全台的輔導團就會深入到台灣你要做多少輔導團你要做多少輔導團我們有分區啊就是北中南區然後大家都有然後產官學研"},{"start":32860.787,"end":32874.64,"text":"我們的法輪團體也會加入所以我知道我知道這個東西我都知道但是我要說的是有一些企業他沒有方向啊他沒有方向的時候怎麼輔導現在我去"},{"start":32877.483,"end":32906.209,"text":"就是中小企業 中小微企業他們面臨到的就是訂單馬上就不見了不管是你說的水五金 自行車等等的還有汽車零組件現在面臨的都是這樣子的問題你怎麼樣子把AI導入到這個生產上面那你要做輔導團 你能輔導多少你要給予他們比較明確的方向嗎我要幫阿文 輔導團第一個階段就是要診斷"},{"start":32907.609,"end":32919.225,"text":"有需要的你這個企業你將來可能要怎麼做轉型你的狀況怎樣所以那個部分還沒開始那個部分你們現在還沒開始我們盡快就會開始所以你們現在已經開始了嗎開始做籌備了"},{"start":32924.451,"end":32942.84,"text":"等預算通過以後你們就會開始裡面有研發補助有多元市場的開拓都可以在這個方向來研發補助裡面還有胎舊換新多元市場就是希望說訂單如果產生困難我們找更多的市場但是就是現在的中小微企業他們沒有方向"},{"start":32944.04,"end":32968.751,"text":"他們對於這個全球的未來的產業佈局他們沒有辦法有自行去就是自行去掌握的能力那所以政府要當領頭羊啊是不是好好謝謝謝謝謝委員的執行謝謝卓院長"},{"start":32972.813,"end":32999.336,"text":"法院會本日預算報告排定質詢之委員均已詢答完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢做以下之決定一中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查二將各委員發言記錄及書面質詢函送行政院請就位答覆部分予以書面答覆三"},{"start":33000.057,"end":33014.32,"text":"已提出之書面質詢 尚未登載光報者 予立補登報告委員會 今日會議進行到此為止10月7日星期二 上午9時繼續開會進行施政報告之質詢 現在休息"}]}},{"id":"163816","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163816","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890c6903c749a50962f704543300bdabf02140c9b83876a6ff94040d5881116b2055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝衣鳯","委員發言時間":"17:25:11 - 17:40:52","影片長度":"00:15:41","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T17:25:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T17:40:52+08:00","duration":941,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.84346875,"end":16.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.77096875,"end":19.11659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.293468750000002,"end":21.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.71034375,"end":27.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.840968750000002,"end":28.566593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.75221875,"end":30.034718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.574718750000002,"end":33.190343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.595343750000005,"end":40.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.58159375,"end":43.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.65284375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.03659375,"end":51.516593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.55034375,"end":54.267218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.807218750000004,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.84909375,"end":59.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.80221875,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.51471875000001,"end":64.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.91534375,"end":66.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.75471875000001,"end":67.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.91909375,"end":68.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.40409375,"end":70.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.27721875,"end":72.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.03221875,"end":74.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.23034375,"end":75.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.61409375000001,"end":76.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.98096875,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.00159375,"end":81.72284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.24596875,"end":82.80284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.93784375,"end":87.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.70971875000001,"end":85.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.93721875,"end":93.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.78846875,"end":96.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.40409375,"end":103.44096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.94721875,"end":128.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.54659375,"end":145.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.75909375,"end":148.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.42534375,"end":152.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.74971875,"end":158.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.83721875,"end":165.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.41846875000002,"end":180.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.55971875,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.09971875000002,"end":181.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.16721875000002,"end":182.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.97721875000002,"end":182.01096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.02784375000002,"end":182.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.33159375000002,"end":182.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.50034375,"end":183.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.91784375,"end":190.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.63409375,"end":191.02221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.76909375000002,"end":192.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.06409375,"end":193.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.65471875,"end":195.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.35909375,"end":209.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.75034375,"end":202.96971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.96971875000003,"end":203.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.45846875,"end":213.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.03971875000002,"end":229.10909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.30971875,"end":215.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.96346875,"end":216.89159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.68284375000002,"end":230.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.96534375000002,"end":233.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.78346875000003,"end":246.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.03034375000001,"end":248.54909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.78534375,"end":255.65346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.10909375,"end":261.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.14284375,"end":257.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.20096875,"end":284.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.79659375,"end":287.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":288.76221875000005,"end":289.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":290.65221875000003,"end":310.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.51284375,"end":296.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.12159375000005,"end":315.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.42909375,"end":317.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.44971875000005,"end":319.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.71096875,"end":325.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":326.68034375,"end":327.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":328.16534375000003,"end":328.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":329.49846875000003,"end":333.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.81846875,"end":334.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.35409375,"end":335.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.37096875000003,"end":339.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.09159375,"end":342.76221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.30221875,"end":346.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.37346875000003,"end":346.59284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.59284375000004,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":346.64346875,"end":346.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.02659375,"end":352.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.66784375000003,"end":352.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.92096875000004,"end":355.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.49034375,"end":355.23284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.63784375,"end":355.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.29596875000004,"end":360.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.58221875000004,"end":362.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.18096875000003,"end":372.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.65346875,"end":363.70409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.70409375,"end":363.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":363.97409375,"end":364.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.80096875000004,"end":365.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.18784375,"end":376.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.75721875000005,"end":380.66346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.69721875000005,"end":389.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.72971875,"end":394.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.06659375000004,"end":411.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.00596875,"end":403.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.22034375000004,"end":408.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.91221875,"end":410.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.59534375000004,"end":424.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.44659375000003,"end":419.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.81346875,"end":421.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.97721875,"end":434.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.99409375000005,"end":425.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.45659375,"end":436.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.03034375000004,"end":436.16534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.48596875000004,"end":436.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":436.50284375,"end":436.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.55346875000004,"end":444.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":444.58596875,"end":446.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.04971875,"end":452.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.84221875000003,"end":460.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.48659375000005,"end":467.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.88284375,"end":462.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.89534375000005,"end":463.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.79784375,"end":470.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.53596875000005,"end":468.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.02534375000005,"end":478.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":474.97784375000003,"end":475.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.25596875,"end":477.34034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.44159375000004,"end":482.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.97659375,"end":484.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.56284375,"end":487.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.70159375000003,"end":491.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.60409375,"end":496.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.99971875000006,"end":502.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.65284375000005,"end":503.36159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.44159375000004,"end":504.52596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.67784375,"end":504.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.69471875000005,"end":504.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.74534375,"end":504.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.96471875000003,"end":505.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.62284375,"end":505.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":505.67346875000004,"end":505.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.33159375,"end":507.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.32284375000006,"end":509.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":510.07784375000006,"end":512.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.6428437500001,"end":514.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.4822187500001,"end":515.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.66784375,"end":514.7522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.8997187499999,"end":530.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.98596875,"end":531.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":531.55971875,"end":534.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":534.63096875,"end":541.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":542.0053437500001,"end":546.6965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.88221875,"end":562.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.01596875,"end":556.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.35659375,"end":576.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.5234687500001,"end":577.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.3584687499999,"end":590.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.9765937500001,"end":599.4309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.3928437500001,"end":602.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.45159375,"end":611.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":611.56409375,"end":622.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.07284375,"end":624.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.67159375,"end":625.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.9922187500001,"end":629.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.97471875,"end":635.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.9653437500001,"end":660.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.7378437500001,"end":661.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.0247187500001,"end":664.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.3997187500001,"end":667.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":664.41659375,"end":664.9228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.1797187500001,"end":669.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":669.24284375,"end":683.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.13534375,"end":683.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.13096875,"end":688.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.0203437499999,"end":691.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.60221875,"end":693.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.0365937500001,"end":694.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.7747187500001,"end":694.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":694.79159375,"end":695.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":695.7365937500001,"end":696.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.7534687500001,"end":696.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":696.6984687500001,"end":699.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":700.27596875,"end":708.6628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.1272187500001,"end":711.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.95346875,"end":722.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.9897187500001,"end":723.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":723.93471875,"end":726.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.9553437500001,"end":730.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.1784687500001,"end":732.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.6928437500001,"end":732.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.7265937500001,"end":748.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.57659375,"end":751.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.22159375,"end":755.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.96346875,"end":758.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":759.1697187500001,"end":767.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.26971875,"end":777.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":778.37346875,"end":779.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.5503437500001,"end":780.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.71909375,"end":780.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.76971875,"end":806.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":806.9765937500001,"end":813.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":813.54096875,"end":818.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.8572187500001,"end":822.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":822.8897187500002,"end":824.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.0078437500001,"end":823.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":824.5434687500001,"end":825.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":824.91471875,"end":826.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":826.8215937500001,"end":827.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.0578437500001,"end":827.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.83409375,"end":827.88471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.88471875,"end":827.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.98596875,"end":828.01971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.01971875,"end":828.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.7453437500001,"end":835.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.6809687500001,"end":837.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":837.70596875,"end":840.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":839.7309687500001,"end":877.36221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":841.77284375,"end":842.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":849.0290937500001,"end":850.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":850.46346875,"end":850.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.46471875,"end":869.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":870.59534375,"end":870.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.36221875,"end":877.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.8515937500001,"end":880.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.3953437500002,"end":889.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.79096875,"end":889.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.29284375,"end":889.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":889.30971875,"end":889.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.32659375,"end":891.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":889.42784375,"end":889.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":891.1828437500001,"end":893.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":893.35971875,"end":894.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":895.48596875,"end":896.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.07221875,"end":897.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.1059687500001,"end":897.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.20721875,"end":898.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.30409375,"end":898.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":898.33784375,"end":898.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":898.3715937500001,"end":900.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.02534375,"end":911.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":901.3415937500001,"end":904.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":910.4878437500001,"end":910.8928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":911.8884687500001,"end":914.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.7234687500002,"end":917.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.32221875,"end":917.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.3559687500001,"end":917.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":917.9465937500001,"end":919.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.70159375,"end":930.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":935.0747187500001,"end":935.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":936.9478437500002,"end":937.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":937.38659375,"end":937.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.78721875,"end":938.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":938.80409375,"end":941.1497187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.53,"end":18.719,"text":"江副院長好我想要請卓院長跟龔明星部長卓院長跟龔部長預備請"},{"start":26.738,"end":43.766,"text":"院長好動作比較快先來現在美國關稅我們目前是20加m那請問什麼時候會抵定還是已經都談好了只是你們都沒跟國人報告"},{"start":45.08,"end":68.454,"text":"跟委員再次報告我們這技術性的磋商都已經完成了但最後的總結報告總結會議還沒有完成總結會議之後才會有這個具體的這個最終的協議那總結會議你看世界各國都有大概一定的模式會這樣處理面對面的處理那現在我們這個政府院長已經回到國內了那隨時當美方"},{"start":69.415,"end":93.247,"text":"把這個雙方各別的最終的條件都內部處理好的時候會通知我們就進行最後的總結會議那總結會的形式到底怎麼進行我們現在當然要尊重雙方的談判過程所以還沒總結會議還是已經訂好了你不跟我們講沒有沒有這個絕對沒有訂好了以後我們就會拿到國會來尋求國會的同意這個是必然的程序"},{"start":93.897,"end":114.255,"text":"所以因為之前川普在8月5號的時候說希望台積電投資美國3000億那我們知道最近商務部長Luknyk他又接受NewsNation的電視節目的訪問他也提到了還加碼"},{"start":115.316,"end":142.495,"text":"他說美國所需的晶片裡面只有2%是本土生產美國本土生產其他高達95%都是在台灣生產所以他們希望在本屆的川普總統任期結束前能夠有40%的美國所需的晶片在美國生產"},{"start":143.456,"end":158.502,"text":"那我想要請問的就是這個部分有沒有談到談到了是不是有像昨天鄭院長他回來的時候他在"},{"start":160.095,"end":179.644,"text":"記者會裡面談到了是擴大投資的台灣方案美國擴大投資擴大投資美國的台灣方案這個內容到底是什麼是不是其實就是已經把半導體整個以往美國"},{"start":180.872,"end":200.757,"text":"絕對沒有上下游都遺忘沒有啊剛剛跟委員報告我們就是說比如說台積電來講的話他承諾的這個1650億美元大概會蓋六座的晶圓廠在台灣現在兩奈米以下的廠就已經超過這個數字了而且將來在中科還有四座"},{"start":201.457,"end":212.735,"text":"然後現在的高雄已經有五座了再加上竹科可能將來南科還會擴敞當然剛才很多委員有問到了就是"},{"start":214.426,"end":239.321,"text":"美国希望我们除了台积电以外中下游的产业也共同的赴美去那才能够完成整个半导体的供应链那你也提到了不然什么是G2GG2G的意思就是说我们现在就是说台湾之前也可以成功因为有好的这个产业聚合cluster"},{"start":239.961,"end":260.819,"text":"那現在就是說那如果台積電他自己可以去而且他有他的一些方法可以跟美國政府去談但是有很多的包括中小企業或其他產業沒有辦法這樣做所以他一定是要形成一個聚落才有可能成功所以這些半導體的相關產業是跟政府談還是跟台積電談"},{"start":262.99,"end":289.447,"text":"對我們政府來講的話如果台灣的廠商有興趣做全球佈局美國也是他可能的一個據點的話那我們就會可能怎麼樣去跟美國政府談到說你可不可以給我們一個聚落的行程然後這邊來講的話包括土地水電或者是行政上的措施給我們更方便甚至於我們可以談到比較好的優惠這對廠商的成功率是提高的那聚落在哪裡"},{"start":291.678,"end":316.658,"text":"在鳳凰城在德州在哪裡你們應該要給大家知道不是這是企業為主現在當然企業界裡面當然TIMA是比較積極的就是電電工會他們也蠻積極的那我們可以跟他合作來談說什麼樣的地點是比較合適的那是不是已經有地點了但是還沒有開始談還沒開始談嗎還沒有到那一步"},{"start":317.746,"end":339.104,"text":"所以目前大家原定的10月底就關稅可以談判結束你們認為會結束嗎這個沒有辦法因為我們跟美國談之間還是要談到最好的結果所以目前所談的裡面有沒有包含了232"},{"start":341.518,"end":361.807,"text":"一併會考量現在已經談了嗎232已經談了嗎一併會考量沒有我是說這一次去已經談了嗎就是會考量是在談的裡面沒有錯已經開始在談了嘛對不對那所以這一次的特別預算裡面到底有沒有包含232條款"},{"start":363.668,"end":380.283,"text":"所受影響的產業還是未來我們如果等232盤出來以後我們這個特別預算還要再重新有一個232條款的特別預算沒有沒有 副委員那個鋼鋁的部分事實上232已經實施了所以對於國內的鋼鋁的這個協助我們已經開始實施了"},{"start":385.507,"end":411.473,"text":"所以他們也可以申請我們的相關的一些協助所以232的鋼鋁部分是包含在這一次的特別預算裡面是 董哥委員報告232對於蘇美鋼鋁及其製品加徵25%的關稅是從3月12號生效所以我們這個特別條例特別預算就是從今年3月12號開始我們追溯開始計算所以明顯看到是涵蓋在裡面的"},{"start":412.173,"end":434.426,"text":"那還沒有談的232還沒有談的部分也會包含在這個裡面嗎會啊 因為本來就是說也會包含在這次的特別預算裡面所以我們不需要有一個新的如果未來232影響的層面因為我們有保留我們這一次是5500億嘛保留有200億如果真的不夠需要的話我們會再提出預算來到大院"},{"start":435.549,"end":460.057,"text":"所以這一次的特別預算當然我要說的是這一次的特別預算就已經包含了232條款的是不是對 至少在鋼鋁的部分適用上是包括在裡面的3月12號就生效的鋼鋁部分已經包含在裡面所以你覺得還是有可能談判的結果不如預期那我們還要必須要追加特別預算對不對 如果200億不夠的話我很有信心"},{"start":461.698,"end":485.893,"text":"我們不要做這樣的預期談判團隊第一個非常辛苦而且據理力爭保持我國的競爭力大家都不知道結果技術性的磋商談完最後的總結會議跟最後的協定還沒有談成是要談到那個程度大家才會定案下來 您記得嗎"},{"start":487.674,"end":503,"text":"川普總統曾經有一個圖表他是直接把它劃掉所以你們那麼有信心那我問你喔那這樣子對等關稅結束以後如果談判整個完成以後那你認為對台灣GDP的影響是什麼不會有影響"},{"start":504.747,"end":530.656,"text":"反而是增加嗎報告委員我們現在就是說當然這個關稅影響難免對不同的產業有不同的影響因為美國的關稅事實上如果我們的產業面對的現在我們20%如果面對的是日韓來講我們當然是不利的但是如果我們的競爭對手這個產業如果競爭對手是中國的話他在美國市場反而是獲利的"},{"start":531.776,"end":545.671,"text":"所以說每一個產業面對的美國的關稅他可能的條件是不太一樣的所以就是說需要衝擊的產業我們就趕快協助他但是可以獲益的產業我們就協助他去搶佔這個市場"},{"start":547.458,"end":560.596,"text":"對 我們當然是希望說我們藉由這次的關稅調整我們可以調整我們的全球布局嘛 是不是但是全球布局裡面你們也沒有給大家看到比較明顯的這個"},{"start":562.458,"end":587.897,"text":"明顯的結果是不是你只有說舉辦這個我們舉辦外貿協會希望他們來台灣購買怎麼樣子現在是目前的規劃的階段那個是訂單的多元市場的爭取全球佈局的部分就剛剛提到的可能要到海外做據點這個據點也有分比如說他是生產據點還是貿易拓銷的據點這兩個我們都會協助"},{"start":591.58,"end":598.999,"text":"對 那所以未來我們到底要往哪裡佈局就是說在美國還是歐洲還是到東南亞"},{"start":600.641,"end":624.754,"text":"會 我們會跟廠商都會做一些討論就好像我們跟TIMA就是電電工會來講他們也有講比如說他們在有幾個地點比如說可能在歐洲他有興趣是波蘭然後北美可能是墨西哥等等的一些情況那我們就會跟他共同討論怎麼樣共同讓他這個佈局可以比較順利而且事實上是對台灣是有益的"},{"start":625.751,"end":653.758,"text":"所以這樣子的話你整體的規劃你認為關稅談判結束對臺灣的GDP是正向影響還是負向影響報告委員所有的都是這樣就是說當這樣的不確定的這些影響來的時候看你怎麼做你做得好你是獲益的就好像川普1.0 2018年美中貿易戰當然講可能是衝擊COVID-19大家也是衝擊但是這兩次我們都度過了反而是更好"},{"start":654.378,"end":659.776,"text":"所以現在就是說我們也要有信心大家一致團結的話我相信我們也會度過這個挑戰"},{"start":660.819,"end":687.791,"text":"所以你是有信心說我們未來會更好是不是你要講啊以前主計長就敢講有沒有是不是以前主計長就敢講啊就講說他會好啊那所有的全球的那個所有機構都預測說台灣的經濟會不好那你就要講說台灣經濟會好啊是不是 卓院長我那個五月份的時候我就講我們今年的這個"},{"start":689.111,"end":709.992,"text":"出口可能會超過五千多億今年的出口是因為搶單嘛是不是不只 我們半導體也很好對 半導體現在也在搶單嘛是不是那未來呢因為未來我們現在已經看到無薪假的產生啦那還有一些官場潮啊這都是有在最棒的委員就是說面臨這樣的局勢之下"},{"start":712.028,"end":731.815,"text":"每一個產業它所處的競爭力不一樣所以我們要針對比較可能受衝擊的產業給予更大的一些協助尤其是傳統產業跟中小微企業我們要花更多的力氣來支持他們因為這些產業是台灣重要的產業 台灣的根"},{"start":733.208,"end":754.713,"text":"可是問題是在中小微企業的時候他很難感受到政府的協助因為在人力的部分或者是在培訓方面他有沒有一個明確的方向因為他沒有辦法有明確的方向我們現在跟中小企業座談我們也講就是說尤其是傳統產業他們人力上可能在人才的競爭上"},{"start":756.013,"end":777.56,"text":"可能對於高科技產業可能處於比較弱勢但是我們也講就是說我們會在全台的地方設立很多的這些訓練機構甚至於在學生時代的時候就產學合作的方式幫他們訓練專業性的人才甚至於訓練怎麼樣運用AI提升他們效力的這樣的人才"},{"start":778.667,"end":805.829,"text":"那這個也有補助但是我們看到了我們要把這些中小微企業或傳產企業受衝擊的產業要導到可能未來會有成長的產業例如說好像無人機產業也好或者是其他的相關產業也好但是目前看起來好像是也沒有協助這些中小企業去做這樣影響是中小企業不要還是政府"},{"start":806.169,"end":833.784,"text":"沒有主動去協助報告委員就是說當這個特別預算想要通過以後我們現在已經開始組這個其實你們現在都已經在用了先以緩計的部分已經在用了啦對不對我們接著下去就會組織這個全台的輔導團就會深入到台灣你要做多少輔導團你要做多少輔導團我們有分區啊北中南區然後大家都有產官學研"},{"start":834.804,"end":848.59,"text":"我們的法輪團體也會加入所以我知道我知道這個東西我都知道但是我要說的是有一些企業他沒有方向啊他沒有方向的時候怎麼輔導現在我去"},{"start":851.511,"end":880.24,"text":"就是中小企業中小微企業他們面臨到就是訂單馬上就不見了不管是你說的水五金 自行車等等的還有汽車零組件現在面臨的都是這樣子的問題你怎麼樣子把AI導入到這個生產上面那你要做輔導團你能輔導多少你要給予他們比較明確的方向嗎八號委員輔導團第一個階段就是要診斷"},{"start":881.62,"end":891.012,"text":"有需要的你這個企業你將來可能要怎麼做轉型你的狀況怎樣所以那個部分還沒開始我們盡快就會開始所以你們現在已經開始了嗎開始做籌備了"},{"start":898.462,"end":911.557,"text":"等預算通過以後你們就會開始了嗎所以我們很希望有多元市場的開拓都可以在這個方向來研發補助裡面還有胎舊換新多元市場就是希望說訂單如果產生困難我們找更多的市場來"},{"start":911.937,"end":930.865,"text":"但是就是現在的中小微企業他們沒有方向那他們對於這個全球的未來的產業佈局他們沒有辦法有自行去就是自行去掌握的能力那所以政府要當領頭羊啊是不是好好謝謝謝謝謝偉"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1210,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（17時25分）江副院長好，我想請卓院長跟龔明鑫部長。"],["主席：請卓院長跟龔部長備詢。"],["謝委員衣鳯：院長好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：美國關稅我們目前是20加N，對不對？請問什麼時候會底定？還是已經都談好了，只是你們都沒跟國人報告？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員再次報告，技術性的磋商都已經完成了，但最後的總結會議還沒有完成，在總結會議之後才會有具體的最終協議。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是什麼時候？"],["卓院長榮泰：總結會議在世界各國大概都有一定的模式會這樣處理，就是面對面的處理，現在鄭副院長已經回到國內了，當美方把雙方個別的最終條件在內部都處理好的時候，會通知我們進行最後的總結會議，至於總結會議的形式到底怎麼進行？當然要尊重雙方的談判過程。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以還沒有總結會議？"],["卓院長榮泰：還沒有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是已經訂好了，你不跟我們講。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，這個絕對沒有！訂好了以後，我們就會拿到國會來尋求國會的同意，這個是必然的程序。"],["謝委員衣鳯：川普在8月5日的時候說希望台積電投資美國3,000億，最近商務部長Lutnick又接受NewsNation的電視節目訪問也提到了，還加碼！他說美國所需的晶片裡面只有2%是美國本土生產，其他高達95%都是在臺灣生產，所以他們希望在本屆的川普總統任期結束前，能夠有40%美國所需的晶片在美國生產。我想要請問的是這個部分有沒有談到？如果談到了，是不是像昨天鄭副院長回來時在記者會裡面談到的擴大投資的臺灣方案，到美國擴大投資、擴大投資美國的臺灣方案？這個內容到底是什麼？是不是其實已經把半導體整個移往美國？"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對沒有！請部長說明。"],["謝委員衣鳯：上、下游都移往美國。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有啊！剛剛跟委員報告，比如台積電來講的話，它承諾的1,650億美元大概會蓋6座晶圓廠。在臺灣現在2奈米以下的廠就已經超過這個數字了，將來在中科還有4座，現在的高雄已經有5座了，再加上竹科，可能將來南科還會擴廠，這個數字遠遠超過……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不是，剛才很多委員有問到了……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以不可能有對半、對半的狀況。"],["謝委員衣鳯：美國希望我們除了台積電以外，中下游的產業也共同赴美，才能夠完成整個半導體的供應鏈，那你也提到了，不然什麼是G 2 G？"],["龔部長明鑫：G 2 G的意思就是說臺灣之所以可以成功，是因為有好的產業聚落cluster，對不對？如果台積電自己可以去，而且它有它的一些方法可以跟美國政府談，但是有很多的中小企業或其他產業也好，沒有辦法這樣做，所以一定是要形成一個聚落才有可能成功。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以這些半導體的相關產業是跟政府談，還是跟台積電談？"],["龔部長明鑫：對政府來講，如果臺灣的這些廠商有興趣做全球布局，美國是它可能的一個據點的話，我們就可能看怎麼樣地去跟美國政府談，說可不可以讓我們形成一個聚落，包括土地、水電或者是行政上的措施給我們更方便？甚至於我們可以談到比較好的優惠，這對廠商的成功率是提高的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：聚落在哪裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：聚落就要看……"],["謝委員衣鳯：在鳳凰城？在德州？在哪裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：不一定，還是要看企業。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對啊，你們應該要給大家知道。"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，這是企業為主，現在企業界裡面當然TEEMA電電公會是比較積極的，就是電電公會滿積極的，我們可以跟它合作來談什麼樣的地點是比較合適的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是不是已經有地點了？"],["龔部長明鑫：但是還沒有開始談，因為……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還沒開始談嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，還沒有到那一步。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以目前大家原定的10月底就關稅可以談判結束，你們認為會結束嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個沒有辦法，因為我們跟美國之間還是要談到最好的結果嘛。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以目前所談的裡面，有沒有包含了232？"],["龔部長明鑫：一定會考量。"],["謝委員衣鳯：現在已經談了嗎？232已經談了嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：一定會考量。"],["謝委員衣鳯：沒有，我是說這一次去已經談了嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：就是會考量，是在談的裡面沒有錯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：已經開始在談了嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以這一次的特別預算裡面，到底有沒有包含232條款所受影響的產業？"],["龔部長明鑫：232本來就已經開始在實施了，有。"],["謝委員衣鳯：還是未來我們如果等232談出來以後，這個特別預算還要再重新有一個232條款的特別預算？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，鋼鋁的部分，事實上232已經實施了，所以對於國內的鋼鋁協助，我們已經開始實施了，他們也可以申請我們相關的一些協助的方案。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以232的鋼鋁部分是包含在這一次的特別預算裡面，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，我跟委員報告，232對於輸美鋼鋁及其製品加徵25%的關稅是從3月12日生效，所以我們這個特別條例特別預算就是從今年3月12日開始，我們追溯開始起算，所以明顯看到是涵蓋在裡面的。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，追溯他們……"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，232還沒有談的部分，也會包含在這個裡面嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：會啊，因為本來就是說……"],["謝委員衣鳯：也會包含在這一次的特別預算裡面？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以我們不需要有一個新的，如果未來232影響的層面？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為我們有保留，我們這一次的是5,500億，保留有200億，如果真的不夠需要的話，我們會再提出預算到大院。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以這一次的特別預算，當然我要說的是這次的特別預算，就已經包含了232條款，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，至少在鋼鋁的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：適用上是包括在裡面，3月12日就生效的鋼鋁部分已經包含在裡面。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你覺得還是有可能談判的結果不如預期，我們還必須要追加特別預算，對不對？如果200億不夠的話。"],["龔部長明鑫：我很有信心。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你很有信心？"],["龔部長明鑫：對副院長我很有信心。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不要做這樣的預期，談判團隊非常辛苦，而且據理力爭，保持我國的競爭力。"],["謝委員衣鳯：就是在說你們是不是都已經談完了？然後大家都不知道結果，然後說不定布局都是不是已經有……"],["卓院長榮泰：我再跟委員報告，是技術性的磋商談完，最後的總結會議跟最後的協定還沒有談成，是要談到那個程度，大家才會定案下來。您記得嗎？川普總統曾經有一個圖表，他是直接把它畫掉……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你們那麼有信心，我問你喔，這樣子對等關稅如果談判整個完成以後，你認為對臺灣GDP的影響是什麼？不會有影響，反而是增加嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，現在這個關稅難免對不同的產業有不同的影響，因為美國的關稅，事實上我們的產業現在面對20%，如果面對的是日、韓來講，我們當然是不利的；但是如果我們的競爭對手是中國的話，它在美國市場反而是獲利的。所以每一個產業面對的美國關稅，它可能的條件是不太一樣的，針對受到衝擊的產業，我們就趕快協助它；但是可能獲利的產業，我們就協助它去搶占市場。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我們當然是希望藉由這次的關稅調整，可以調整我們的全球布局嘛，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，沒有錯。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是全球布局裡面，你們也沒有給大家看到比較明顯的結果啊，是不是？你只有說舉辦外貿協會，希望他們來臺灣購買這樣子，目前是規劃的階段，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：那個是多元市場的爭取，全球布局的部分就剛剛提到的，可能要到海外做據點，那這個據點也有分，比如是生產據點還是貿易拓銷的據點，這兩個我們都會協助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，所以未來我們到底要往哪裡布局？是往美國還是歐洲？還是到東南亞？"],["龔部長明鑫：會，我們都會跟廠商做一些討論，就好像我們跟TEEMA電電公會來講，他們也有講他們有幾個地點，比如在歐洲他們有興趣的是波蘭，然後北美可能是墨西哥等等，那我們就會跟他們共同討論怎麼樣讓他們這個布局可以比較順利，而且事實上對臺灣是有益的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：這樣子的話，根據整體的規劃，你認為關稅談判結束對臺灣的GDP是正向影響還是負向影響？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所有的事情都是這樣，就是當這樣不確定的影響來的時候，看你怎麼做，你做得好你是獲益的，就好像川普1.0 2018年美中貿易戰，大家也講可能是衝擊啊！COVID-19來也是衝擊，但是這兩次我們都度過了，反而更好，所以現在就是說我們要有信心，大家團結一致的話，我相信我們也會度過這個挑戰。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你是有信心我們未來會更好，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，假如……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要講啊！以前主計長就敢講啊！就講說會好啊！現在全球所有的機構都預測臺灣的經濟會不好，那你就要講說臺灣經濟會好啊！是不是？卓院長。"],["龔部長明鑫：我今年5月份的時候就講，我們今年的出口可能會超過五千多億。"],["謝委員衣鳯：今年的出口是因為搶單嘛，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：不只，我們半導體也很好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，半導體現在也在搶單嘛，是不是？那未來呢？因為我們現在已經看到無薪假產生了，那還有一些關廠潮，這都是有在……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，就是面臨這樣的局勢之下，每個產業的競爭力不一樣，所以我們要針對比較可能受衝擊的產業，給予更大的一些協助，尤其是傳統產業跟中小微企業，我們要花更多的力氣來支持他們，因為這些產業是臺灣重要的產業、臺灣的根。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是啊，問題是中小微企業很難感受到政府的協助，在人力或培訓方面，它沒有辦法有明確的方向啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：有，我們現在跟中小企業座談，我們也講，尤其是傳統產業，他們在人力上、在人才的競爭上，相對於高科技產業可能處於比較弱勢，但是我們也講我們會在全臺各地方設立很多訓練機構，甚至在學校就用產學合作的方式，幫他們訓練專業性的人才，甚至訓練怎麼樣運用AI提升他們效率的人才，那這個也有補助。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是我們看到，我們要把這些中小微企業、傳產企業、受衝擊的產業引導到未來會有成長的產業，例如無人機或其他的相關產業，目前看起來好像並沒有協助這些中小企業去做這樣的轉型，是中小企業不要還是政府沒有主動去協助？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，這個特別預算假如通過以後，我們現在已經開始組輔導團……"],["謝委員衣鳯：其實你們現在都已經在做了，有些移緩濟急的部分你們已經在做了啦，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：不只，我們接著下去就會組織全臺的輔導團，就會深入到臺灣各地方。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你要做多少輔導團？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們有分北、中、南區，大家都有，然後產官學研，我們的法人團體也會加入，包括工研院、資通中心……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道，我知道，這個東西我都知道，但是我要說的是有一些企業沒有方向，它沒有方向的時候要怎麼輔導？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，所以輔導團第一……"],["謝委員衣鳯：現在中小微企業他們面臨到的就是訂單馬上就不見了，不管是你說的水五金、自行車還是汽車零組件，現在都面臨這樣的問題，你要怎麼樣把AI導入生產上面？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你說要做輔導團，你能輔導多少？你要給予他們比較明確的方向。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，輔導團第一個階段就是要診斷，有需要的，你這個企業將來可能要怎麼做轉型、你的狀況怎樣，可能每一個企業都不一樣。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那個部分你們現在還沒開始？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們儘快就會開始，已經開始有這個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以你們現在已經開始了嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：開始做籌備了，很快就會開始進行。"],["謝委員衣鳯：做籌備了，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：等預算通過以後你們就會開始了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在這裡面有研發、補助……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以我們很希望……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對，我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：有多元市場的開拓。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：都可以在這個方向來……研發、補助裡面還有汰舊換新。多元市場就是希望，訂單如果產生困難，我們給他找更多的市場。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是就是現在的中小微企業，他們沒有方向，對於全球未來的產業布局，他們沒辦法有自行掌握的能力，所以政府要當領頭羊，是不是？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，對這些中小企業來講，我們會盡全力協助他們。"],["卓院長榮泰：做更多的輔導團，下去直接輔導他們。謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝謝委員的質詢、謝謝卓院長。","報告院會，本日預算報告排定質詢之委員均已詢答完畢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。","作以下之決定：一、「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」交財政委員會會同有關委員會審查。二、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復部分予以書面答復。三、已提出之書面質詢尚未登載公報者，一律補登。","報告院會，今日會議進行到此為止，10月7日（星期二）上午9時繼續開會，進行施政報告之質詢，現在休息。","休息（17時41分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163815","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163815","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8900ed4a84fc4557631704543300bdabf02140c9b83876a6ff955e27d19183d88005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"17:09:18 - 17:24:56","影片長度":"00:15:38","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T17:09:18+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T17:24:56+08:00","duration":938,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.78846875,"end":16.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.04534375,"end":17.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.00534375,"end":29.629718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":30.051593750000002,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.199093750000003,"end":31.215968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.23284375,"end":33.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.62909375,"end":36.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":36.970343750000005,"end":43.619093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.867843750000006,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":45.627218750000004,"end":48.32721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.74534375,"end":46.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":49.35659375,"end":53.406593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.81159375,"end":55.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.971593750000004,"end":56.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.815343750000004,"end":57.642218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.992218750000006,"end":68.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":63.31221875000001,"end":63.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":68.39159375,"end":73.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":73.43721875,"end":74.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.19221875000001,"end":76.17096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.59284375,"end":82.92096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":83.14034375,"end":83.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.15721875,"end":84.43971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":84.70971875000001,"end":88.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":88.89471875000001,"end":90.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":90.16034375000001,"end":94.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":94.48034375,"end":100.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":95.98221875,"end":96.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":97.06221875,"end":98.15909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":100.96034375,"end":103.42409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.23846875000001,"end":103.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.42409375000001,"end":103.66034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.66034375000001,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.77846875,"end":105.93846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.30971875,"end":111.50721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":111.87846875000001,"end":113.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":114.46034375,"end":117.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.68346875,"end":123.85971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.19721875,"end":128.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.09096875,"end":130.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.03159375,"end":132.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":133.47846875000002,"end":134.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":135.13221875000002,"end":136.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":136.54971875,"end":140.81909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.27471875,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":142.30409375000002,"end":142.74284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.08034375,"end":143.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.58659375000002,"end":155.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":155.75346875,"end":161.28846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":162.31784375,"end":164.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":164.93346875,"end":175.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":176.66159375,"end":177.69096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.60221875000002,"end":188.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":189.99284375000002,"end":194.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":194.46471875,"end":195.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":195.74721875,"end":201.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.60284375,"end":214.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":215.45721875,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.95909375000002,"end":217.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":218.54534375,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.10159375,"end":224.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":224.19846875000002,"end":226.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":226.66221875000002,"end":227.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":227.30346875,"end":235.04909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":235.16721875000002,"end":236.83784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.83784375000002,"end":239.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":236.87159375000002,"end":236.90534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":236.97284375,"end":237.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.35221875000002,"end":240.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":240.78659375,"end":245.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.41034375,"end":246.50721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.89534375000002,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.21534375000002,"end":253.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.44284375,"end":256.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":256.05846875000003,"end":259.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.69096875,"end":260.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":259.93971875,"end":259.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":260.04096875,"end":260.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.46284375,"end":261.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":260.63159375000004,"end":263.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.48784375,"end":265.27221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":264.58034375,"end":264.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":264.59721875,"end":284.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.90346875,"end":276.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.06784375,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.02971875000003,"end":279.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":284.91471875,"end":286.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":284.94846875,"end":285.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":286.78784375000004,"end":291.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":291.74909375000004,"end":293.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":293.77409375,"end":294.63471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":294.76971875000004,"end":295.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.11971875,"end":297.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.75659375000004,"end":299.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":299.88284375,"end":304.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":305.67096875000004,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.36159375,"end":314.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.90159375,"end":315.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":315.42471875,"end":317.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.74096875000004,"end":320.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.28471875,"end":327.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.34346875,"end":322.79909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":327.38909375000003,"end":327.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.62534375,"end":331.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.18221875,"end":328.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":329.36346875000004,"end":330.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.08471875000004,"end":337.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.10471875,"end":340.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":340.68659375000004,"end":348.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":348.01034375,"end":349.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":350.82846875,"end":363.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":364.19346875,"end":367.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":367.18034375,"end":370.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.79159375,"end":373.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":373.54221875,"end":380.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":377.67659375000005,"end":387.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":387.24471875,"end":387.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":388.47659375,"end":394.93971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.24346875000003,"end":409.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":409.41846875000005,"end":418.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.26534375,"end":421.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":420.33659375,"end":428.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.87534375,"end":430.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":431.82846875,"end":435.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.89096875,"end":440.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":440.29971875,"end":446.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":445.34534375000004,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":447.58971875000003,"end":451.43721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":451.74096875000004,"end":452.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.12909375000004,"end":457.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":452.23034375000003,"end":452.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.27596875,"end":459.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.73971875,"end":466.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":466.18596875000003,"end":469.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":469.02096875,"end":471.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":470.30346875000004,"end":472.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.02471875000003,"end":473.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.37909375000004,"end":475.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.26471875000004,"end":483.14534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":478.65659375,"end":479.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":482.41971875,"end":484.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.70221875000004,"end":484.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.86659375000005,"end":484.91721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":484.91721875,"end":485.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.98471875,"end":485.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.06909375000004,"end":485.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.38971875000004,"end":496.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":490.14846875,"end":490.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":490.19909375000003,"end":490.97534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":498.90659375,"end":500.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":500.47596875000005,"end":507.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.46221875000003,"end":515.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.51159375,"end":517.9584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":516.06846875,"end":521.28284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.28284375,"end":521.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":521.58659375,"end":528.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.62346875,"end":535.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.4072187500001,"end":536.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.1284687500001,"end":545.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":544.08096875,"end":554.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":554.49284375,"end":555.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.50971875,"end":554.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.8428437499999,"end":558.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.13346875,"end":588.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":559.2009687500001,"end":561.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.35659375,"end":590.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":590.1159687500001,"end":592.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":592.73159375,"end":595.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":595.1615937500001,"end":599.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.3803437500001,"end":618.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":607.7165937500001,"end":607.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.9697187500001,"end":608.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.59409375,"end":608.6784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":608.6784687500001,"end":609.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":617.1159687500001,"end":625.46909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.04721875,"end":632.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":632.9109687499999,"end":635.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":635.8134687500001,"end":636.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.7078437499999,"end":639.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":640.28534375,"end":640.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":641.2978437500001,"end":643.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":644.4028437500001,"end":646.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.6765937499999,"end":647.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.69346875,"end":647.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.8115937499999,"end":648.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.0984687499999,"end":648.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":648.13221875,"end":648.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.14909375,"end":653.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":649.80284375,"end":650.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":652.35096875,"end":653.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":653.63346875,"end":664.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":665.17596875,"end":665.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":666.2222187500001,"end":678.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.54284375,"end":666.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":679.0303437500002,"end":679.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":680.2622187500001,"end":689.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.6497187500001,"end":686.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":688.48034375,"end":690.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":689.4422187499999,"end":694.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.96034375,"end":695.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.0615937500002,"end":697.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":698.0990937500001,"end":699.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.0903437500001,"end":701.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.7778437500001,"end":702.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":703.0603437500001,"end":704.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.49471875,"end":706.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":706.24971875,"end":713.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":711.9028437500001,"end":713.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":713.67471875,"end":716.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":715.32846875,"end":722.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":723.1415937500001,"end":723.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":724.08659375,"end":728.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.44034375,"end":730.4822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":731.0559687500001,"end":731.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":732.2709687500001,"end":736.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":736.9622187500001,"end":740.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":738.95346875,"end":739.3584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.8815937500001,"end":748.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":742.8515937500001,"end":743.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":749.0447187500001,"end":756.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":757.29659375,"end":760.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":760.90784375,"end":762.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":762.6459687500001,"end":764.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.3840937500001,"end":767.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":768.3159687500001,"end":768.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":769.0247187500001,"end":769.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.2565937500001,"end":771.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":771.6909687500001,"end":774.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.7790937500001,"end":776.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":775.43721875,"end":776.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.8503437500001,"end":779.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":779.1159687500001,"end":782.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":781.2590937500001,"end":786.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":787.24971875,"end":791.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.59971875,"end":789.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.02971875,"end":797.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":796.1259687500001,"end":798.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.89784375,"end":809.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":807.2803437500002,"end":807.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":809.5078437500001,"end":815.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":815.8190937500001,"end":821.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":822.0459687500002,"end":823.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":823.8684687500001,"end":826.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.43346875,"end":826.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.48409375,"end":826.5009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.5009687500001,"end":826.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.5178437500001,"end":827.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.8172187500002,"end":828.2222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":828.2222187500001,"end":829.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":829.9097187500001,"end":838.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":836.84534375,"end":836.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":836.96346875,"end":837.2334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.26284375,"end":846.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":846.4640937500001,"end":851.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":849.34971875,"end":851.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.4084687500001,"end":851.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":851.4253437500001,"end":852.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":851.45909375,"end":852.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":852.30284375,"end":852.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":852.47159375,"end":856.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":856.2009687500001,"end":859.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":858.1753437500001,"end":862.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":861.85409375,"end":867.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":866.56221875,"end":870.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":871.16909375,"end":873.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":873.31221875,"end":879.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":878.34096875,"end":881.4965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.4965937500001,"end":881.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":881.58096875,"end":894.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":895.06409375,"end":912.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":912.34409375,"end":920.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":920.49471875,"end":925.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":925.7765937500001,"end":926.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.83971875,"end":927.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":928.0378437500001,"end":930.0122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":930.34971875,"end":932.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.65346875,"end":933.3872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":935.2265937500001,"end":935.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.42909375,"end":935.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":937.1672187500001,"end":938.97284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.604,"end":0.764,"text":"請卓院長備詢"},{"start":29.145,"end":56.135,"text":"區委員好院長好院長首先請教您這個在今年度114年度行政院在您手上行政院目前正在進行的特別預算案有幾個案剛剛對 剛剛答案有出來幾個剛剛說有六個三個是以前的年度的那我們現在就是這個還有那個風災的"},{"start":59.499,"end":88.377,"text":"因為今天要質詢的這個還沒通過嘛所以不算在質詢所以是五個加上今天這個就六個那加上我們年度的總預算就是去年通過的我們114年度的所以是七個所以我曾經跟我們主計總署講說主計人員非常忙碌手上不同的預算在手上還要精細的算一般正常的國家應該不需要那麼多帳本吧"},{"start":88.925,"end":113.554,"text":"是啊 但是今天你看我們風災也來您是不是史上這個帳本最多的行政院長我希望把它算得清楚第一個風災也來 談判也來所以我們會做了很多的這個特別預算做這兩個 然後前面還有前面的但是我們看到的是有些特別預算的內容它其實不需要用特別預算它其實用常態預算就可以"},{"start":114.468,"end":141.072,"text":"如果委員提到的是國防 教育我們剛剛有幾個委員也是很多委員都這麼認為我們都有做說明那我也希望說在委員會審查的時候容許我們的部委首長能夠用詳實的資料再向委員說明請求能夠支持但是這個等於是常態預算你放到特別預算這個是不合乎預算法的"},{"start":141.448,"end":161.073,"text":"那當然有它符合預算法的條件所以像這一次我們就拉回來我們今天要審的這個因應國際情勢強化社會經濟以及民生國安的韌性特別預算這裡面有很多都可以是放到明年的總預算"},{"start":162.389,"end":188.331,"text":"所以本席是認同我們並不是反對這些預算但是不能用特別預算就是不能用因為這樣會規避很多的我們包含舉債剛剛這個這一個手上就包含我們今天要質詢的這第六項這六個的我們的這個表格我想請院長看一下我們整個的"},{"start":190.609,"end":214.078,"text":"稅出規模高達4900多億將近5000億他的舉債也超過了一半佔了57.2%2852.22億所以這表示特別預算常態化這個是不對的再來就是舉債我們等於是把未來世代的錢我們提早預支這個是我們對子孫的一種掠奪"},{"start":215.849,"end":239.85,"text":"這個部分我們希望如果是可以放在明年的預算的你們追加進來追加進來我們也可以接受所以不是反對預算而是這個不要規避預算法預算法該怎麼樣財政紀律財政部長也剛好來跟委員報告兩件事情再請部長來說明第一個是"},{"start":242.452,"end":255.836,"text":"這個特別預算都符合預算法的規定我們有它的特殊的情況再來如果這個錢要放到明年的中央政府總預算債券追加我怕明年我們的舉債的額度已經沒有辦法再承受這樣子"},{"start":256.736,"end":280.054,"text":"特別預算就是在規避就是在舉債超過我們舉債的這個範圍跟委員報告在預算法裡面本來就有年度預算跟特別預算兩者相輔相成年度預算是一般施政的作為那特別預算是因應重大的一個情勢編列但是不管總預算跟特別預算都納入債務管控絕對沒有規避所謂的債務的管控"},{"start":285,"end":304.284,"text":"特別預算一樣納入債務管控特別預算有說要緊急或重大工程好那院長我想跟院長說現在我們坊間大家知道很多獨居老人突然很感恩川普川普沒有搞一個關稅你還不會想到要幫他弄獨居老人的特別預算"},{"start":306.048,"end":321.666,"text":"還有這個高等教育 高等教育這些人才如果沒有川普來弄一個這個關稅我們沒有想到要幫他弄特別預算當國際的官貿秩序這樣重新調整之後各國都是要衝擊 我們對我們的科技業的"},{"start":325.47,"end":349.41,"text":"人才培育也必須加碼快速所以我們做這個工作也因為這個樣子對我們這個消費的行為也會產生現在想像不到的任何的衝擊我們認為更弱勢的這些獨居老人弱勢者中低收入 負低收入我們也會加碼來給他們多一層的照顧希望他們在度過這樣的過程當中不會影響他們基本上的生活這個跟整個"},{"start":350.911,"end":372.742,"text":"川普的關稅其實沒什麼相關所以這一個部分我就說嘛所以這些獨居老人還有這些弱勢你們都突然想到用特別預算來發來給他們加發一些金額如果沒有這個關稅對產業可能造成衝擊那國內整個消費行為可能造成一些衝擊"},{"start":373.582,"end":387.758,"text":"那當然沒有特別的需要那我們是率先預先想到了這些也希望委員會支持到底是社會的弱勢的弱勢這次你們提的支持產業安定就業我們當然也認同也支持那所以"},{"start":388.499,"end":408.216,"text":"大家還發現有一點就是覺得卓院長跟賴總統很特別全世界各國包含日本 包含德國大家都被美國關稅搞得非常的頭暈腦脹但是他們都沒有想到說弄一個特別預算"},{"start":409.757,"end":430.305,"text":"或者是說特別弄這等於有一些常態預算也放到特別預算裡面但是只有我們中華民國政府各國對產業的支持都有這樣的一個方式存在那沒關係因為我們也認同支持產業780億支持勞工安定就業但是我們想知道你780億你哪些產業哪些產業你錢匡了你怎麼匡出這780億"},{"start":436.926,"end":446.214,"text":"我們最重要是對中小微企業能夠加強不論他的貸款 他的保障他的研發升級以及他的這個多元市場的開發你怎麼評定"},{"start":447.645,"end":471.049,"text":"你怎麼評定你要給誰?這780億你要給誰?我們當初4月4號在算的時候就已經做一個高推估30%的一個稅率同時他如果因為美國關稅讓他的營業額有下降的時候他必須提出這樣的一個證明下降10%的時候所以現在有提出證明的他有提出申請的提出申請的你們就會給他我們預先做移緩計期所有1000多件"},{"start":475.37,"end":496.665,"text":"是 現在有一千多件來已經收件了包括貸款的補助也好也有一個是 這是針對企業產業的部分我們也想知道我們支持勞工的安定就業150億150億我們想知道你到底勞工你面對哪些勞工"},{"start":498.953,"end":528.122,"text":"你面對哪些勞工那這些勞工他要上什麼課幾節課誰來承辦你這150億你怎麼評估出來的跟委員報告我們評估遇到對等關稅的衝擊所以有些勞工跟產業他可能會遇到比如說減班休息或者是有時候會遇到現在減班休息的我看到最新數據8505人是那我們希望這150億下去你是止痛止血還是你可以長期造血你告訴我"},{"start":529.089,"end":549.685,"text":"這裡面第一個這裡面我們給現在給勞工的支持的措施裡面有包括薪資的補貼有包括課程的補助也有包括給予企業他要在自己來做辦訓或者是聯合辦訓相關的這個那你有瞭解現在他要辦培訓上什麼課上幾節課誰來承辦這些在基層都可以進行嗎"},{"start":555.068,"end":557.31,"text":"培訓率有沒有什麼KPI"},{"start":584.768,"end":596.021,"text":"受到關稅衝擊的老公朋友來給予他最大的支持跟幫助那你這個錢花完了以後怎麼辦你這個錢花完了以後他有轉型嗎他未來的生計怎麼辦這一個有納在裡面嗎"},{"start":599.685,"end":628.234,"text":"跟文說第一個我們當然希望減半休息的勞工可以盡量留在他原本的職場因為很多中高齡的勞工如果你要他去轉職他會比較辛苦第二個因為我剛才講到我們可能有包括訓練的部分訓練的部分當然企業會依照產業他們現在在對於如果產業不轉型你這個產業碰到這個因為關稅的危機有很多可能他真的就關所以產業轉型的部分應該進一步這邊其實有很多對於產業"},{"start":629.314,"end":646.019,"text":"轉型跟創新相關的補助我想這都是相輔相成的那本席想請教院長我們現在有關汽車關稅的美國的這個汽車進口的這個談判我們預估未來會是零關稅嗎"},{"start":648.309,"end":664.384,"text":"我們現在沒有辦法做這樣的預估沒辦法預估那美方有提出一些想法對全世界來通用那現在依據台灣區車輛工會 同業工會來估計如果因為你現在你沒辦法預估那如果真的最後是調降至零"},{"start":665.225,"end":669.03,"text":"的時候那他們預估將影響新台幣847.74億的產值還有8.26萬的相關從業人員那我請問這個安置計畫有準備嗎"},{"start":680.923,"end":695.979,"text":"這個前提0影響多少產業的金額應該有先預估吧這個前提現在我們先不設定但是我們就希望透過這個產業你們先不設定那如果突然間我說那個前提我們先不設定但是整個來講我們是透過這個產業的支持未來出現什麼樣的衝擊我們就用這樣的"},{"start":698.141,"end":713.139,"text":"特別預算當中對產業的支持全面的給他做一些必要的協助這是我們現在想法但是我剛剛委員說的那個零跟影響800多億影響8.2萬多人那個前提現在我們沒有辦法做這樣的確定我怕我說出去以後"},{"start":713.92,"end":735.539,"text":"大家都說行政院講說我們是零關稅你不說但是你們內部有沒有評估那我順便問因為我們馬上要審總預算明年的總預算請問我們行政院這邊預估對美關稅減收的總額會是多少一定要到確定之後我們才能做確實的一個所以我們這次送來的預算裡面也沒有去看這個"},{"start":737.031,"end":748.515,"text":"我们可能关税我们在税入的部分我们有照我们的推估财政部在税入的时候有做这样的推估但是那个推估就是在当时我们的高推估情况底下去做的"},{"start":749.45,"end":775.855,"text":"接著本席想請教院長我們在照顧民生整個預算有3070億元這裡面有包含剛剛本席特別提到的獨居老人的關懷服務我們想請教你現在獨居老人到底對象有多少我們有請內政部應該有核算出來獨居老人我們請部長來說明一下"},{"start":777.884,"end":779.425,"text":"各位快一點我時間我們現在這個有估計的大概是70萬人"},{"start":787.318,"end":812.81,"text":"有70萬的獨居老人你怎麼估出來的我們從各縣市的這個單位報上來的那有列冊已經請各縣市報上來先盤點然後我們預估在未來兩年這70萬的獨居老人都能夠完成訪視然後依據評估的結果來安排後續的服務本席手上看到內政部推估是97萬6925人"},{"start":815.911,"end":831.231,"text":"那看到衛福部的調查報可能這比較舊的是39萬你說70萬那你們造冊的你們目前造冊的有70萬嗎造冊已經有70萬那你打算怎麼關懷我們除了這個訪視之外"},{"start":834.051,"end":855.428,"text":"因為兩年內 我們是預估兩年內我們預算編兩年兩年內呢 都要訪視至少一次然後訪視完會分級管理那有些呢 他比較欠缺智力需要協助生活的跟可以智力的分開你要訪視70萬人 我請教你你有評估你訪視的人力足夠嗎"},{"start":857.07,"end":870.231,"text":"所以才需要這個特別預算知不知道關懷人力有嚴重的缺口這塊部長知道嗎我們了解所以才需要有這筆預算來支持這筆預算有了你就可以你就有辦法"},{"start":871.246,"end":894.294,"text":"人力就具足了嗎我們會努力的把它完成這個不容易達成啦但是我們是希望不容易達成但是錢已經都編這麼多了因為時間的關係最後本席要跟院長說我們的這個特別預算常態化從民進黨執政這九年多來這太明顯了因為特別預算他是特別預算你怎麼可以"},{"start":895.134,"end":920.389,"text":"用這種平常的預算所以我們就發現特別預算它的執行成效非常差然後這個項目整個的規劃也不好所以我們希望院長我們特別預算是不是可以委由公正獨立的第三方機構那他把特別預算的項目能夠做成本效益分析以及執行後的整個的追蹤考核"},{"start":920.575,"end":921.635,"text":"我們更希望的是"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1066,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（17時9分）謝謝江副院長，本席有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：院長好。院長，首先請教您，在今（114）年度，在您手上，行政院目前正在進行的特別預算案有幾個？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛李委員有提過……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，剛剛答案有出來，幾個？"],["卓院長榮泰：他剛剛說有6個嘛，3個是以前年度的案子，我們現在就是這個，還有風災的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：因為今天要質詢的這個還沒通過嘛，所以不算在內，所以是5個，加上今天這個就6個。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：加上我們年度的總預算，就是去年通過的，114年度的預算案，所以是7個。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我曾經跟我們主計總處說，主計人員非常忙碌，有不同的預算在手上，需要精細的算。"],["徐委員欣瑩：一般正常的國家應該不需要那麼多帳本吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊，但是你看，我們風災也來……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您是不是史上帳本最多的行政院長？"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望把它算得很清楚，第一個風災也來……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，風災。"],["卓院長榮泰：談判也來，所以我們做了很多的特別預算。"],["徐委員欣瑩：多這兩個，然後還有前面的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是我們看到的是，有些特別預算的內容其實不需要用特別預算，其實用常態預算就可以啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果委員提到的是國防、教育，剛剛有幾個委員也質詢過……"],["徐委員欣瑩：是，很多委員都這麼認為。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都有做充分的說明，我也希望在委員會審查的時候，容許我們的部會首長能夠用翔實的資料再向委員說明，請求能夠支持。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是這個等於是你將常態預算放到特別預算，這個是不合乎預算法的。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然有它符合預算法的條件。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以像這一次，我們就拉回來我們今天要審的這個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案，這裡面有很多都可以放到明年的總預算，所以本席是認同……我們並不是反對這些預算，但是不能用特別預算就是不能用，因為這樣會規避很多的，包含舉債。剛剛提到在你的手上，包含我們今天要質詢的第六項，這是這6個預算的表格，我想請院長看一下，我們整個歲出規模高達四千九百多億，將近5,000億，它的舉債也超過了一半，占了57.2%，有2,852.22億，所以這表示特別預算常態化是不對的。再來就是舉債，我們等於是把未來世代的錢提早預支，這個是我們對子孫的一種掠奪，這個部分，我們希望如果是可以放在明年度預算的，你們追加進來，追加進來，我們也可以接受，所以不是反對預算，而是不要規避預算法，預算法該怎麼樣，財政紀律，財政部長也剛好上來……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告兩件事情，再請部長來說明。第一個，這個特別預算都符合預算法的規定，我們有它的特殊情況。再來，如果這個錢要放到明年的中央政府總預算再來追加，我怕明年我們的舉債額度已經沒有辦法再承受這樣子。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以特別預算就是在規避，就是在……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是、不是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是在舉債，超過我們舉債的……"],["卓院長榮泰：您錯了、您錯了，今年的都符合特別預算法，我請部長說明。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，在預算法裡面本來就有年度預算跟特別預算，兩者相輔相成，年度預算是一般施政的作為，特別預算是因應重大的情事來編列……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對。"],["莊部長翠雲：但是不管總預算跟特別預算都納入債務管控……"],["徐委員欣瑩：特別預算是緊急或重大工程。"],["莊部長翠雲：都納入債務管控，絕沒有規避所謂的債務管控，特別預算一樣納入債務管控。"],["徐委員欣瑩：特別預算有說要緊急或重大工程。","好，院長，我想跟院長說，現在我們坊間大家知道，很多獨居老人突然很感恩川普，如果川普沒有搞一個關稅，你還不會想到要幫他弄獨居老人的特別預算；還有高等教育，高等教育這些人才，如果沒有川普來弄一個高關稅，我們沒有想到要幫他弄特別預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：當國際的關貿秩序重新調整之後，各國都受到衝擊，我們對我們科技業的人才培育也必須加碼、快速……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們做這個工作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以現在坊間還有……"],["卓院長榮泰：也因為這個樣子，對我們的消費行為也會產生現在想像不到的衝擊，我們對於更弱勢的這些獨居老人、弱勢者、中低收入戶、低收入戶，我們也會加碼來給他們多一層的照顧，希望他們在度過這樣的過程當中，不會影響他們基本上的生活。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個跟整個川普的關稅其實沒什麼相關，所以一個部分，我就說嘛，所以這些獨居老人還有這些弱勢，你們就突然想到用特別預算來給他們加發一些金額。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，如果沒有這個關稅對產業可能造成衝擊，對國內整個消費行為可能造成一些衝擊，那當然沒有特別的需要，我們是率先、預先想到這些，也希望委員能夠支持，他們到底是社會弱勢中的弱勢。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對，所以這一次你們提的支持產業安定就業，我們當然認同也支持。所以，大家還發現有一點，覺得卓院長跟我們賴總統很特別，全世界各國，包含日本，包含德國，大家都被美國的關稅搞得非常的頭暈腦脹，但是他們都沒有想到說弄一個特別預算，或者是說特別弄這個，等於有一些常態預算也放到特別預算裡面，但是只有我們中華民國政府這樣來進行。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，各國對產業的支持都有這樣的一個方式存在。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那沒關係，因為我們也認同支持產業780億，支持勞工安定就業。但是我們想知道，這780億你要支持哪些產業？你要支持哪些產業？你錢匡了，你怎麼匡出這780億的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們最重要是對中小微企業能夠加強，無論他的貸款、他的保障、他的研發升級以及他的多元市場的開發……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那你怎麼評定？你怎麼評定你要給誰？這780億你要給誰？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當初4月10號在算的時候，就已經做一個高推估30%的稅率；同時，如果因為美國關稅讓他的營業額有下降的時候，他必須提出一個證明下降10%的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以現在有提出證明來申請的……"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛據龔部長說他現在……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有提出申請的你們就會給他？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們預先做移緩濟急，說有一千多件。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，現在有一千多件來，已經收件，包括貸款的補助也好，也有一個是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這是針對企業、產業的部分嘛？"],["龔部長明鑫：企業，沒有錯。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那我們也想知道，我們支持勞工的安定就業150億……"],["龔部長明鑫：那個是勞動部……"],["徐委員欣瑩：150億，對。這150億我們想知道，那你到底面對哪些勞工？這些勞工要上什麼課？幾節課？誰來承辦？這150億你是怎麼評估出來的？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員報告，我們評估遇到對等關稅的衝擊，有些勞工跟產業可能會遇到比方說減班休息，或者是有時候會遇到收入縮減的狀況……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我知道。現在減班休息的，我看到最新的數據是8,505人嘛。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那我們希望這150億下去，你的目標是止痛、止血還是你可以長期造血？你告訴我。"],["洪部長申翰：這裡面第一個，我們現在給勞工的支持措施裡面有包括薪資的補貼，有包括課程的補助，也有包括給予企業他要自己來辦訓或者是聯合辦訓相關津貼的支持。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你有了解現在他要辦培訓，上什麼課、上幾節課、誰來承辦？這些在基層都可以進行嗎？這個執行率。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，現在比方說我們的分署……"],["徐委員欣瑩：有沒有什麼KPI？有沒有什麼KPI？"],["洪部長申翰：我們的分署有辦訓，那企業也可以依照自己的需求，對勞工的能力或培訓的需求來辦訓，我們在目前的韌性特別條例的特別預算裡面，我們也把辦訓在經濟上面支持的額度提高，所以我們是整體性的希望對於減班休息或者是受到關稅衝擊的勞工朋友，給予他最大的支持跟幫助。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那這個錢花完了以後怎麼辦？你這個錢花完，他有轉型嗎？他未來的生計怎麼辦？這個有納在裡面嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，第一個，我們當然希望減班休息的勞工可以儘量留在他原本的職場，因為很多中高齡的勞工，如果你要他去轉職，他會比較辛苦。第二個，因為我剛才講到，我們可能有包括訓練的部分，訓練的部分當然企業會依照他們產業現在對於勞工能力的需求……"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果產業不轉型，這個產業因為碰到關稅的危機，有很多可能真的就關門了。"],["洪部長申翰：所以產業轉型的部分，應該經濟部這邊其實有很多對產業轉型跟創新相關的補助，我想這都是相輔相成的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席想請教院長，現在有關美國進口汽車關稅談判，我們預估未來會是零關稅嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在沒有辦法做這樣的預估。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒辦法預估？"],["卓院長榮泰：美方有提出一些想法對全世界都通用。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在依據臺灣區車輛同業公會估計，因為現在你沒辦法預估，但如果真的最後調降至零的時候，他們預估將影響新臺幣847.74億的產值，還有8.26萬的相關從業人員，我請問這個安置計畫有準備嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：關稅零影響多少產業金額，這個前提現在我們先不設定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：應該有先預估吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們希望透過產業……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們先不設定，如果突然間……"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，我說那個前提先不設定，但是整個來講，我們透過對產業的支持，未來出現什麼樣的衝擊，我們就用這樣的特別預算對產業的支持，全面地給它做一些必要的協助，這是我們現在的想法。但是剛剛委員說的零跟影響八百多億、影響八點二萬多人的那個前提，現在我們沒有辦法做這樣的確定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這個部分都……"],["卓院長榮泰：我怕我說出去以後，大家都會說行政院說我們是零關稅。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不說，但是你們內部有沒有評估？那我順便問，因為我們馬上要審明年的總預算，請問行政院這邊預估對美關稅減收的總額會是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：這一定要到確定之後，我們才能做確實的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這次送來的預算裡面也沒有去看我們在關稅歲入的部分……"],["卓院長榮泰：有，我們有照我們的推估，財政部在歲入的時候有做這樣的推估。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是那個推估就是在當時我們高推估的情況底下去做的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，接著本席想請教院長，我們在照顧民生預算有3,070億元，這裡面有包含剛剛本席特別提到的獨居老人關懷服務，我想請教現在獨居老人到底對象有多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：內政部應該有核算出來。"],["徐委員欣瑩：獨居老人的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，應該是衛福部，我請衛福部來說明一下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：可不可以快一點？我時間快到了。"],["石部長崇良：報告委員，我們現在有估計的大概是70萬人。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有70萬的獨居老人？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你怎麼估出來的？"],["石部長崇良：我們從各縣市單位報上來的有列冊。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以已經請各縣市報上來？"],["石部長崇良：對，先盤點，然後我們預估在未來兩年對這70萬獨居老人都能夠完成訪視，然後依據評估的結果安排後續的服務。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。本席手上看到內政部推估是97萬6,925人，看到衛福部的調查報告是39萬，這可能這是比較舊的，現在你說70萬，你們目前造冊的有70萬嗎？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：造冊已經有70萬？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那你打算怎麼關懷？"],["石部長崇良：除了訪視之外，我們的預算是編兩年，我們預估兩年內至少都要訪視一次，然後訪視完會分級管理，有些比較欠缺自立、需要協助生活的跟可以自立的，把它分開。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，你要訪視70萬人，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我請教你，你有評估訪視的人力足夠嗎？"],["石部長崇良：所以才需要這個特別預算。"],["徐委員欣瑩：知不知道關懷人力有嚴重的缺口？這一塊部長知道嗎？"],["石部長崇良：對，我們了解，所以才需要有這一筆預算來支持，能夠快速的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這筆預算有了，人力就俱足了嗎？"],["石部長崇良：對，我們會努力的把它完成，這個不容易達成，但是我們是希望兩年時間……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不容易達成，但是錢已經都編這麼多了，因為時間的關係，最後本席要跟院長說，我們的特別預算常態化，從民進黨執政這九年多來，這太明顯了，特別預算是特別預算，怎麼可以用平常的預算？所以我們就發現特別預算的執行成效非常差，然後項目整個規劃也不好，所以我們希望，院長，特別預算是不是可以委由公正、獨立的第三方機構，它把特別預算的項目能夠做成本效益分析，以及執行後的整個追蹤、考核？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，您放心，行政院編列預算，主計總處都會做很嚴謹的管控，我們去委託一個第三方，這應該不符合政府的體制，但主計總處會很嚴謹的管控。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們更希望的是常態預算就編在年度預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們這次是因為國際形勢以及颱風，所以編了兩個特別預算，請委員支持。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員、謝謝卓院長，時間到了，謝謝。","賴瑞隆委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院以書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員賴瑞隆書面質詢：","一、談判團隊持續為台灣爭取最有利條件，與美國共創雙贏，必須慎重應對國內試圖以不實謠言擾亂民心之舉措，政府相關部會應及時澄清、回應，採取主動積極作為","(一)美國對台灣目前暫行對等關稅稅率為20%，日前已完成第5輪實體磋商，有鑑於美國持續擴張232條款適用對象，且該條款對我國金屬扣件、汽車零組件等產業影響重大，盼談判團隊持續爭取對我國最有利條件，加強台美供應鏈合作，深化台美貿易夥伴關係。","(二)此外，有關於美國商務部長盧特尼克（Howard Lutnick）的在接受《News Nation》專訪時，提到希望美國在先進製程晶片製造能提升到50%，以在衝突危機中具有更高行動能力，如此的論點遭部分人士解讀為美國與台灣「晶片五五分」，要奪取我國晶片製造技術與生產線，並透過社群媒體大量擴散，不僅影響民心安定，恐進一步影響台美建立互信合作關係之談判。","(三)事實上，我國對美談判團隊從未做出「晶片五五分」的承諾，這次沒有討論這項議題，也不會答應這樣的條件。政府允應加強加強資訊公開，讓關心關稅談判的國人能接獲政府傳遞的正確資訊，並對散布之錯假資訊加強釐清與溯源追加，如有涉及不法情事也應追究法律責任。","二、相較於高科技產業，高雄的機械、金屬扣件等傳統產業受美關稅衝擊影響嚴重，有鑑於傳統產業投入研發比重難以提升，經濟部如何投入更多協助傳產升級？包括方案、策略、計劃及預算等？","(一)今年3月美國政府以《1962年貿易擴張法》第232條的授權規定，宣布對進口鋼鐵與鋁課徵50%的關稅，高雄市的金屬扣件、汽車零組件等產業首當其衝，其產品有高達92%的出口金額都銷往美國，衝擊金額達523億元。","(二)據經濟部資料，我國傳統製造業者約8.60萬家，占整體製造業比重逾九成，並以金屬製品、機械設備、塑膠製品及食品等家數最多，112年度僅機械設備業投入研發經費達243億元，占該年度整體研發經費之2.8%、位居中行業排序第4較高，其餘金屬製品、塑膠製品、食品等業別投入研發占比均未達1%，這主要是因為我國傳統產業多數以中小企業規模營運，為爭取國際市場，不得不以低利潤率報價搶單，難以投資技術研發，經濟部應擴大釋出技術移轉與研發量能，協助傳統產業產品市場價值。並對高雄市受影響的金屬、機械、石化等產業從寬認定，提供業者足夠資金與技術支援協助，以度過難關、進一步提升產業整體競爭力。","(三)此外，國家產業政策、基礎建設計畫應再次審視，以平衡南北差距問題，經濟部主管法人及國公營事業應繼續推動在高雄設置研發中心，加強與高雄產業的技術研發合作，挹注更多資源，提高工業產品附加價值。基礎建設部分，持續擴大支持高雄軌道建設推動，以平抑過往以來重北輕南、國土發展不均、環境成本不正義的問題，請行政院針對上述問題提出具體說明及規劃。","三、農業受國際情勢衝擊，政府如何落實農業韌性與糧食安全？","(一)根據特別預算案，農業部主管編列190億元，主要係辦理強化農漁業外銷冷凍（藏）體系50億2,920萬元、獎勵業者拓展美國高端外銷市場44億9,950萬元、提供農業金融支持措施24億元、協助開拓銷售通路與推廣20億8,230萬元、辦理產業加值轉型19億2,950萬元、辦理調整生產模式與推動合作生產穩定供銷11億1,701萬元、辦理強化糧食儲備與穩定緊急時期糧食供應8億元。","(二)美國加徵高額關稅，除工業產品外，農漁產品亦受影響，農業部於特別預算編列190億元，包括強化冷鏈體系、拓銷美國市場、推動產業加值轉型及糧食儲備等。但目前農產品外銷集中少數市場，價格波動風險亦高，且氣候變遷造成國內糧食自給率長期偏低。行政院應說明：","1.如何確保農業特別預算執行之效益並落實照顧農漁民，避免僅淪為短期補助？","2.未來將如何推動農業多元市場佈局及精準行銷，降低外銷過度依賴單一市場風險？","3.在糧食安全方面，如何強化戰略物資儲備及農業生產模式調整，以保障民生基本需求？","四、均衡台灣整體發展，行政院應盡速盤整並提出財政劃分收支法再修正","(一)113年12月20日立法院三讀通過，並於114年3月21日經總統公布施行之《財政收支劃分法》修正，其修法過程欠缺朝野雙方、中央與地方政府充足討論，以致現行法有諸多重大缺失亂象，包括1.財政結構失衡，現行法第八條大幅調整各級政府稅收劃分，減少中央政府可運用的財源，直接改變中央與地方間的財政結構，但並未同時檢討事權分配，導致地方獲得大筆收入挹注卻無相對應施政項目與人力編制，中央仍須負擔原有事務卻缺乏財源之困境。2.施政項目受衝擊，中央政府的經常性收入將減少，影響到部分中央政府施政項目的預算額度，特別是國防支出、育兒津貼、租金補貼等將面臨嚴峻的刪減壓力，中央政府需要大幅刪減補助地方政府等支出，預計需要刪減約28%的彈性歲出。3.內容矛盾與窒礙難行：現行法部分修正內容存在矛盾或不夠具體明確，造成執行上的困難。在計算地方統籌分配稅款時，出現公式錯誤，導致約345億元統籌分配稅款無法全數分配給地方政府之荒謬情事。4.未考慮準備期影響預算執行：修法內容未考量應有的準備作業期間，不利於各級政府預算秩序的維持與執行。5.與憲法精神未符：財劃法原意旨是為了落實憲法關於地方經濟平衡發展的原則。此次修法結果導致全國最富裕的臺北市增加416億元統籌稅款收入，為全國增加最多，相對之下，財政狀態較差縣市，以及負擔較高縣市則未能因此改善收入，修法結果不符合憲法及財劃法立法宗旨。6.踐踏環境正義：將營業稅改為全部分配給地方政府，讓集中我國30.8%公司營業登記的台北市集中更多資源，但企業往往將生產線與工廠設置於中南部，特別是高雄市集中各大重化工業，鋼鐵及石化產值占比達全國三分之一，變成稅由台北收，汙染留高雄的不公平現象。","(二)綜上，財政收支劃分法前次修法，係為一次倉卒、魯莽以及無視財政均衡與紀律，擴大城鄉、嚴重重北輕南影響整體國家發展，繼續讓高雄市民承受國家發展重工業導致各項污染與環境成本之惡法，行政院允應盡速完成與地方政府就財源及事權溝通後提出合理之修正提案，差重新檢視統籌分配款之公式，重新均衡全國差距問題，避免資源過度集中，以利我國整體均衡發展、落實環境正義。"],["主席：下一位請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163814","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163814","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8902cad7380c02a322d704543300bdabf02140c9b83876a6ff903e613f7b702dda25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"16:53:30 - 17:09:14","影片長度":"00:15:44","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T16:53:30+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T17:09:14+08:00","duration":944,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.89346875,"end":19.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.58909375,"end":19.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.62284375,"end":19.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.69034375,"end":19.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.70721875,"end":19.977218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.977218750000002,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.43284375,"end":20.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20.51721875,"end":20.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.895343750000002,"end":31.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.840343750000002,"end":32.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.650343750000005,"end":39.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.612218750000004,"end":33.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.58596875,"end":52.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.76534375,"end":60.392843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.713468750000004,"end":65.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.42159375,"end":77.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.71909375,"end":82.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.61721875,"end":85.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.62096875,"end":87.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.40971875000001,"end":87.98346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":88.57409375,"end":89.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.14784375,"end":90.19409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.39659375000001,"end":91.00409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.37534375,"end":92.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.33284375000001,"end":94.12596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.34534375000001,"end":94.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.18909375000001,"end":96.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.50534375000001,"end":97.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.78784375000001,"end":101.16284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.24721875,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.72784375,"end":103.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.25096875000001,"end":115.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.41971875,"end":104.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.97471875000001,"end":131.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.95971875,"end":157.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.54221875000002,"end":165.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.11471875,"end":168.00471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.53221875,"end":168.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.20284375,"end":173.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.03784375,"end":173.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.55659375000002,"end":177.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.72909375,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.84284375000001,"end":200.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.87846875000002,"end":192.91221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.91221875000002,"end":192.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.34159375000002,"end":203.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.86409375000002,"end":211.47471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.85471875000002,"end":212.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.30159375000002,"end":221.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":215.01846875,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":221.32971875,"end":222.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.88221875000002,"end":232.51784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.25284375,"end":229.61534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.53471875000002,"end":236.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.51346875000002,"end":234.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":237.39471875,"end":238.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.71096875,"end":241.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.34784375,"end":242.27159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.30534375000002,"end":242.33909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.33909375000002,"end":242.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.40659375,"end":243.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.31784375,"end":245.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.62971875000002,"end":250.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.25346875000002,"end":251.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.06346875000003,"end":253.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":254.62409375000001,"end":256.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.67034375000003,"end":259.66971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.73721875,"end":259.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.82159375000003,"end":267.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.20034375,"end":268.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.52909375,"end":271.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.47409375,"end":282.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.68721875,"end":295.76534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":295.86659375,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.72471875,"end":313.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.38284375,"end":314.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.74971875,"end":316.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.57221875000005,"end":316.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.69034375,"end":320.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.18346875000003,"end":321.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.63471875000005,"end":344.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":344.73659375,"end":349.25909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.54596875000004,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.29659375,"end":354.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.33409375,"end":371.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.85471875,"end":373.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":374.21721875000003,"end":375.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.90471875000003,"end":379.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.00534375,"end":380.34284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.49471875,"end":381.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.13159375000004,"end":395.66534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.23909375000005,"end":401.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":401.62221875,"end":406.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.98846875000004,"end":422.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":422.95221875000004,"end":425.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.15846875000005,"end":432.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.08159375,"end":439.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.59096875,"end":461.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":461.88284375,"end":463.48596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":463.95846875,"end":478.52159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":478.77471875000003,"end":482.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.43284375,"end":479.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.26346875,"end":488.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.79846875000004,"end":491.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":491.85284375000003,"end":493.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.72596875000005,"end":495.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":495.24471875,"end":498.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.58596875,"end":503.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.27284375000005,"end":508.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":508.96409375,"end":512.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.5078437500001,"end":514.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.64659375,"end":517.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.2959687499999,"end":523.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.9153437500001,"end":534.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":534.49596875,"end":542.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":543.22034375,"end":545.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.32971875,"end":549.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":549.5147187499999,"end":554.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.45471875,"end":558.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.84659375,"end":567.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.38534375,"end":568.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.7353437500001,"end":571.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.90784375,"end":585.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.6609687499999,"end":591.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.1240937499999,"end":592.5459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.88346875,"end":593.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.60909375,"end":594.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.67221875,"end":596.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.7478437500001,"end":598.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.9753437500001,"end":600.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.9497187500001,"end":603.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":603.3290937500001,"end":606.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":607.1259687500001,"end":607.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.0034687500001,"end":611.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.58096875,"end":635.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.57284375,"end":642.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":642.52971875,"end":644.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":645.1115937500001,"end":648.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.6597187500001,"end":648.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.0815937500001,"end":648.0984687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.0984687499999,"end":648.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.11534375,"end":648.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.13221875,"end":648.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":648.87471875,"end":652.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.4653437500001,"end":650.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.7222187500001,"end":653.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.61221875,"end":655.7934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":656.6540937500001,"end":659.7253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.07971875,"end":667.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":667.67346875,"end":675.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.22909375,"end":682.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":682.45596875,"end":688.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":688.36221875,"end":692.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":692.73284375,"end":693.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":693.57659375,"end":705.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.06846875,"end":708.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":705.20346875,"end":705.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.9665937500001,"end":709.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.03409375,"end":709.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.05096875,"end":709.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.6922187499999,"end":709.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.8103437500001,"end":746.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.71596875,"end":746.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.10409375,"end":750.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.93471875,"end":783.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":783.26721875,"end":815.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":816.17346875,"end":825.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.3490937500001,"end":828.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.6272187500001,"end":832.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":832.4072187500001,"end":838.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":837.58784375,"end":844.2703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":844.0847187500001,"end":854.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.9015937500001,"end":857.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":857.50034375,"end":861.5503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":861.2803437500002,"end":865.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":865.66784375,"end":868.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":868.2834687500001,"end":873.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":872.56971875,"end":872.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":872.58659375,"end":881.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":873.3628437500001,"end":873.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.4890937500002,"end":875.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":876.77159375,"end":876.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":877.37909375,"end":877.7334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":877.7334687500002,"end":877.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":881.83409375,"end":882.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.54284375,"end":886.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":887.18346875,"end":887.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":887.2678437500001,"end":887.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":887.8415937500001,"end":888.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":888.61784375,"end":889.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.46159375,"end":890.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":891.38534375,"end":892.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":893.2922187500001,"end":894.7434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":894.96284375,"end":900.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":900.41346875,"end":913.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":906.1003437500001,"end":906.6909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.14221875,"end":908.2265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.2265937500001,"end":908.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":908.42909375,"end":908.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":913.4240937500001,"end":917.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":917.8959687500001,"end":925.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":925.13534375,"end":928.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":930.1472187500001,"end":930.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":931.63221875,"end":935.2603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":937.1840937500001,"end":937.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":941.5884687500002,"end":944.3390937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":16.915,"end":18.779,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請卓院長"},{"start":30.939,"end":60.171,"text":"李文豪院長好 辛苦了今天我們是在討論經濟社會及民生國安任性的特別預算我們也希望說這次的報告完之後下個禮拜我們財政委員會就會把特別預算排進去排進去之後我們希望說在下個禮拜能夠順利出委員會如果一切順利的話最快有可能在10月17號我們立法院就會通過特別預算"},{"start":60.791,"end":77.507,"text":"那我先想請教一下院長雖然早上大家也問過了那如果說真的能夠順利在10月17號之前我們就通過這個特別預算的話那我們行政院需要多少個工作天來完成這個普發一萬的這些行政作業程序呢"},{"start":79.189,"end":103.418,"text":"今天莊部長答覆過很多次我們先期的準備作業已經開始了只要大院哪一天通過這個預算送請總統公告公告之後一個月內我們一定可以發放那我也希望財政部先前的準備工作能夠更周延快速的進行能夠提前多快我們就多快發放"},{"start":104.838,"end":131.437,"text":"一個月其實也還蠻久的其實大家有這個期待當然10月連假也比較多是不是能夠在10月底或11月初就有這個機會發放這1萬塊的現金跟委員報告第一個就是剛剛院長說就是等我們的特別預算總統公布後我們一定會盡快的現在的相關的作業都已經在進行當中包含各種發放的一些方式"},{"start":132.037,"end":157.121,"text":"它的一個系統的設置網站的規劃還有一些名冊的在核對都在積極的進行那所以等總統公布以後我們一定會盡快的來做發放的作業而且會加強的宣導告訴民眾他在各種方式裡面他所需要備的一些相關文件證件很簡單的證件或者是說還有發放的期間都要做很好的宣導所以這個部分都在進行"},{"start":157.761,"end":173.995,"text":"現在有五種方式可以來領取對不對那你們的登記錄像是要設立一個網站對不對會 是要設計網站那這網站設計好了嗎都已經設計好而且目前也都在測試當中然後這個ATM領線郵局領線這個都準備好了"},{"start":178.358,"end":196.845,"text":"ATM的部分比上次還增加了1,000多個機台總共會達到28,000多個機台而且有16家的銀行都加入了所以它的普局率達到84%郵局有1,294個支局都可以做現場臨櫃的領取"},{"start":199.946,"end":219.034,"text":"直接入帳跟照冊的也都完成了嗎直接入帳的部分要跟名冊去相當去做比對譬如說他有勞工保險年金的結束這些程序都那個都要做程式也都設計完了那現在就是相關名冊要去做比對因為第一個我們不能遺漏"},{"start":219.494,"end":244.774,"text":"第二個也不能重複領這是非常重要的那直接照冊的方式呢對 直接照冊的部分呢主要是針對所謂的幾個偏鄉的地區那這個準備好了嗎這個部分都在照冊對 都會做都準備好那如果按照財政部的準備其實總統公告之後應該馬上蠻快的就可以來發這1萬塊了那會儘快一定會儘快那院長11月初有機會嗎"},{"start":245.775,"end":270.622,"text":"我完全看得出委員內心的要求我們會盡量朝這個方向來走因為我們準備好我們現在今年要多做的一個就是我們這個反詐騙的行為所以我等一下就要問說我們準備好了詐盤其實也準備好了對我們要成立一個詐欺打擊詐欺小組來全面的因應這個部分因為現在還沒有發就已經在網路上現在就是說我們網站還沒開始就已經有一些就已經有這個造假的網站已經開始了"},{"start":272.302,"end":287.675,"text":"那我們就是宣傳其實我們在宣傳就是說我們一定會有GOV最後是GOV結尾的那我們也不會發簡訊我們也不會發email都不會嘛對不對是所以在我們在宣導的時候一定會加強的告訴民眾要去辨識當然我們還有一個"},{"start":288.474,"end":305.97,"text":"打擊詐欺組這個專組然後由內政部次長當組長會去配合跟速發部一起都會合作不要說這個還沒有領到一萬民眾就先被騙走了好不好這正要注意謝謝莊部長那再請教一下卓院長這次花蓮光復鄉的不幸風災"},{"start":310.354,"end":328.401,"text":"當然我們全力在做家園的重建也從產值超人看到我國全社會的防衛韌性很多的產值超人到光復上去剛開始當然有一點點大家都很熱血"},{"start":330.982,"end":354.577,"text":"剛開始有點雜亂無章但是後來中央介入之後志工也能夠做引導讓我們這些熱情的志工能夠帶一顆心去然後把這個地方能夠重建家園但是我要提醒行政院就是說其實花蓮他們之前其實在四月份的時候就已經有做過這一個陳正任系列演習了"},{"start":355.627,"end":378.737,"text":"他們今年4月的時候然後當時候縣長徐真偉他就說這次我們是跟中央協作然後希望藉由這次無腳本的推演提升全民防衛還有災難應變的韌性所以其實在今年4月的時候花蓮已經有演練過可是如果風災一來的時候你會發現說演練"},{"start":380.057,"end":394.985,"text":"跟實際上的情況差距還是相當的大風災來的時候就現在結果花蓮縣政府剛開始的時候還是一團亂在演習的時候好像這個其實我們中央也有下去看也好像這個按部就班來做但是實際上"},{"start":396.266,"end":421.966,"text":"真的發生這個危險、災難的時候就跟我們演習有一段差距其實我們賴總統也是相當的重視全社會韌性的防衛他自己也擔任全社會防衛韌性委員會的召集人他也特別提到說希望能夠藉由全社會韌性委員會強化我們的國防、民生、災防、民主這四大韌性"},{"start":423.467,"end":440.68,"text":"這一次光復鄉的災害當然不幸但是我們也把它看成是一次社會任性的一個實戰的一個演練這個實戰的演練其實不是只有我們自己國人關心當然國際也在關心但是也不要忘了中共他們也在看"},{"start":441.761,"end":463.133,"text":"如果我們在一場天災的過程當中我們沒辦法在很短的時間之內很有秩序的把災後的重建做完之後中國也會看你如果台灣遇到一次的風災或是接連的風災你沒有辦法在一個短時間裡面做好家園重建的話"},{"start":463.993,"end":482.022,"text":"他也會看出我們這一個重建的一個韌性的一個破口這我要提醒的但是這個我要建議就是說因為我們現在中央有這個中央災害防救會報院長是召集人我們有設有中央災害的防救委員會"},{"start":483.323,"end":511.915,"text":"副院長是召集人當然內政部長都有非常重要的角色但是現在的災害都是複合性的災害風災、水災、土石流然後地震可以衍生其他的土石流、水災等等都有現在的災害不是只有單一的都是一個複合性的災害現在按照我們中央災害防救委員會的分工風災、震災、地震是屬於內政部"},{"start":512.896,"end":514.8,"text":"那水灾是属于经济部"},{"start":515.68,"end":542.311,"text":"土石流是屬於農業部交通事故是屬於交通部我們各個部會都有看起來好像都有在負責但是從這次的馬太安西連社會就發現說那其實也是跨了好幾個部會這個當然也有學者專家之前就在建議的是不是要仿效美國建立這一個聯邦級級事務的管理署就是我們自己有一個防災的總署"},{"start":543.411,"end":554.386,"text":"統合中央跟地方的權責保存傳承每一次災害應變的知識台灣才不會在每一次災害發生的時候都要從零開始那院長怎麼看"},{"start":555.889,"end":581.817,"text":"謝謝委員我們也是從多年來的災害的經驗我們現在包括你剛說的中央防災的體系組織包括我們中央災害應變中心目前的整個組織都有一致在精進那這一次大量的土石流這樣流下來 淹涉湖倒是過去真的比較少見這麼大量我們之前在做演練的時候甚至是假設是海嘯那時候我們想說台灣會有海嘯但是我們也把各種情境都納進來了"},{"start":582.737,"end":611.193,"text":"那因為這個樣子 我覺得我們看到這一次的狀況我們可以檢討我們的疏失但是我們不能暴露我們的缺點這個缺點要馬上及時的改正回來我請內政部 經濟部還有我們其他的相關的各單位馬上來研究這整個災害的防救的過程當中我們是不是還缺少哪一塊或是要加強哪一塊如果能夠成立一個更有效的專責機構有效率的組成的話我想也是人民對政府的期待我們做這樣的努力"},{"start":611.933,"end":627.925,"text":"就是說我們有一個中央的災害防救的匯報您是擔任召集人但是我剛才講過了現在是複合性的災害會牽扯到各個部會如果有一個專責性的不管它是叫署還是叫什麼專責單位來負責來統籌不論是院長副院長來統籌整個救災的機制的話"},{"start":636.53,"end":651.241,"text":"院長會不會認為說至少在下次面對這種事情的時候能夠更有效的統合各個部會我們現在匯報或是我們的災防辦他都沒有實際上可以去執行的量度所以畢竟都在各部會台風來的時候還有淹水的時候"},{"start":656.684,"end":682.063,"text":"而且這個土石流的時候我們會有不同的單位來做不同的組織那我認為未來這個復型災害這樣的頻繁我們應該成立我們應該想像有一個可以專責的統合的單位來做處理那現在部會跟災防辦我個人認為不夠我會跟部會來做好好的考量未來怎麼樣盡快的我說我們要檢討但是不會把我們的缺點暴露出來"},{"start":682.923,"end":708.666,"text":"我是覺得說每一次都把它當成是一個社會任性的一個演習我們希望說災害降到最低但是我們也希望說每一次你所發現的能夠改善的作為下一次精進的措施所以我才提到說其實這也不是這一次有人提到其實每一次發生這種複合性災難的時候就有人提到說是不是我們也請中央應變中心指揮官來說說看他的想法跟經驗來 劉部長"},{"start":710.547,"end":733.359,"text":"謝謝李委員我想譬如說我以丹納斯來看可以看到電網韌性的部分或者是通訊韌性的部分那這個透過我們現在立法院全力支持之後電網韌性跟通訊韌性都已經在加強當中那在這一次有關於土石流的部分我也可以引用一位台大教授他所提到他所知道全世界其他的土石流的災對不起不是土石流就是這個驗射物的災害"},{"start":733.939,"end":749.82,"text":"台灣的水準是在水準平均之上那當然我們不能夠引以為傲因為我們畢竟還有很多死傷而且我們到現在為止仍然維持紅色警戒也就是表示說天后不可預測還有災害的時候有很多人也在災難的現場"},{"start":751.121,"end":769.09,"text":"所以我們仍然維持紅色警戒是表示要持續監控而且監控的力道不會比發生之前還要來的少那我們現在就集合包括國科會包括農業部或是包括全台灣所有對於水利或是地震所有的這些專家來看看我們下一次要怎麼做會更精進"},{"start":770.05,"end":797.939,"text":"我認為每一次的經濟都是提供我們全社會防衛韌性最好的一個素材那也希望全民能夠支持尤其在預算方面那這一點我們其實都保持一個非常開放的態度來接受各方的意見再檢討好 那我再請教一下院長那今年度我們除了現在在審查的這一個即將審查的這個特別預算之外其實還有其他五個總共有六個特別預算在今年度我們都會做審查"},{"start":799.299,"end":825.213,"text":"那今年度的這一個整個這六個特別預算稅出的規模將近五千億那這個舉借的債務是大概兩千八百五十而已占比是五十七趴左右那其實不低啦那再請教一下院長那現在國防部是不是在年底之前還會再送一個特別預算是有關於這個不對稱作戰的特別條例還有預算送到立法院來做審議"},{"start":826.794,"end":851.695,"text":"請部長來跟說明現在我們對於國家安全國防安全的需求可以考慮到政府財政的能力目前國防部有什麼樣具體的時間有限部長就簡短回答是不是在年底之前有這個不對稱作戰的特別條例會送來立法院我們有關不對稱及防衛任性的部分我們會在下半年會提送條例然後送行政院審議"},{"start":852.455,"end":864.642,"text":"然後另外會提出相關的預算那大概預算規模大概是多少現在還在編制當中所以我想還沒有做最後的定案就是媒體有在傳出大概是介於這個七千億兆一兆之間"},{"start":866.131,"end":892.079,"text":"我想最後都還是要行政院來布裡面還在涵算各種的需求目前都還沒有到院裡面來現在還在布裡面還沒有送到行政院還沒有但是預計會在年底送到立法院來做審議就對了年底以前大概這個不對稱作戰的重點是什麼就是你們買的武器大概重點是哪些"},{"start":893.739,"end":917.464,"text":"相關當然我們會有軍購商購還有偽製的項目那主要的一些重點當然就從名稱上就可以看得出來就是在強化我們的不對稱的戰力以及我們的防衛的韌性那屬於這一個我們認為應該要擺入這個特別預算的一個項目那我們想要買的這些不對稱的這些武器有跟美方談好的嗎"},{"start":918.805,"end":943.706,"text":"當然我們會跟美方來進行溝通讓我們提出我們的需求讓美方也會做出相對應的承諾這樣子對於在關稅談判上面有幫助嗎我想談判的這個我們好謝謝謝謝李委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":988,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（16時53分）謝謝主席，我們請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好，辛苦了。今天我們是在討論經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算，也希望這次報告完之後，下禮拜我們財政委員會就會把這個特別預算排進去，排進去之後，希望下禮拜能夠順利出委員會，如果一切順利的話，最快有可能在10月17號，我們立法院就會通過這個特別預算。","我先請教一下院長，雖然早上大家也問過了，如果真的能夠順利在10月17號之前，我們就通過這個特別預算的話，行政院需要多少個工作天來完成普發1萬的這些行政作業程序？"],["卓院長榮泰：今天莊部長已經答復過很多次，我們先期的準備工作已經開始了，只要大院哪一天通過這個預算，送請總統公告，公告之後一個月內我們一定可以發放，我也希望財政部先前的準備工作能夠更周延、快速的進行，能夠提前多快，我們就多快發放。"],["李委員坤城：一個月其實也還滿久的，大家都有這個期待，當然10月連假也比較多，是不是能夠在10月底或11月初就有機會發放這一萬塊現金？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，第一個就是剛剛院長所說的，等我們的特別預算總統公布後，我們一定會儘快發放。現在相關作業都已經在進行當中，包含各種發放的方式、系統的設置、網站的規劃，還有一些名冊的核對，都在積極的進行，所以等總統公布以後，我們一定會儘快來做發放的作業，而且會加強宣導，告訴民眾在各種方式裡面所需要準備的一些相關文件、證件，其實是很簡單的證件，或者是發放的期間，都要做很好的宣導，這些部分都在進行規劃當中。"],["李委員坤城：現在有五種方式可以領取，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["李委員坤城：你們的登記入帳是要設立一個網站對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：會，是要設計網站。"],["李委員坤城：這個網站設計好了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：都已經設計好，而且目前也都在測試當中。"],["李委員坤城：在測試當中？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，在測試當中。"],["李委員坤城：然後ATM領現、郵局領現這些都有準備好了？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，ATM的部分比上次還增加了一千多個機臺，總共會達到兩萬八千多個機臺，而且有16家銀行都加入了，所以它的普及率達到84%。郵局有1,294個支局都可以現場臨櫃領取，這個都可以做。"],["李委員坤城：好，直接入帳及造冊的部分也都完成了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：直接入帳的部分要跟名冊去做比對，譬如他有勞工保險年金的給付，還有國民年金……"],["李委員坤城：我是說這些程序……"],["莊部長翠雲：那個都要做程式，也都設計完了，現在就是相關名冊要去做比對，因為第一個，我們不能遺漏，第二個，也不能重複領，這是非常重要的。"],["李委員坤城：那直接造冊的方式呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：關於直接造冊的部分，主要是針對幾個偏鄉地區，那會由派出所來做。"],["李委員坤城：這個準備好了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分都在造冊，都會做。"],["李委員坤城：都準備好了？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["李委員坤城：如果按照財政部的準備，其實總統公告之後，應該馬上就可以發這一萬塊了。"],["莊部長翠雲：會儘快，一定會儘快。"],["李委員坤城：院長，11月初有機會嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我完全看得出委員內心的要求，我們會儘量朝這個方向來走。"],["李委員坤城：因為我們準備好……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們今年要多做的一個就是反詐騙的行為，我們要把它做好。"],["李委員坤城：所以我等一下就會問我們準備好了，詐團其實也準備好了。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們要成立一個打擊詐欺小組來全面因應這個部分，因為現在還沒有發，在網路上就已經有一些……"],["李委員坤城：就是說我們網站還沒開始……"],["卓院長榮泰：就已經有一些詐欺的嫌疑了。"],["李委員坤城：就有造假的網站已經開始了啊！其實我們的宣傳就是說最後一定是有gov結尾的，我們也不會發簡訊、也不會發email，這些都不會嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，所以在我們宣導的時候，一定會加強告訴民眾要去辨識，當然我們還有一個打擊詐欺組這個專組，由內政部次長當組長，會配合數發部一起合作。"],["李委員坤城：不要還沒有領到一萬，民眾就先被騙走了，好不好？這真的要注意。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝莊部長。","再請教一下卓院長，面對這次花蓮光復鄉不幸的風災，當然我們全力在進行家園重建，同時也從鏟子超人看到我國全社會的防衛韌性，很多的鏟子超人到光復鄉去，大家都很熱心、很熱血，剛開始當然有一點點雜亂無章，但是後來中央介入之後，志工也能夠引導，讓這些熱情的志工帶一顆心去，讓這個地方能夠重建家園。但是我要提醒行政院的是，其實花蓮之前在4月份的時候就已經有做過城鎮韌性的演習了，當時縣長徐榛蔚還說：這次我們是跟中央協作，希望藉由這次無腳本的推演，提升全民防衛以及有災害應變的韌性。其實在今年4月的時候，花蓮已經有演練過，可是風災一來就會發現，演練跟實際上情況的差距還是相當大。結果風災來的時候，花蓮縣政府一開始還是一團亂！演習時我們中央也有下去看，好像都按部就班來做，但實際上真的發生危險與災難時，會跟演習有一段差距。其實賴總統相當重視全社會防衛韌性，他自己也擔任全社會防衛韌性委員會的召集人，他也特別提到，希望能夠藉由全社會防衛韌性委員會來強化我們的國防、民生、災防及民主四大韌性。這次光復鄉的災害當然很不幸，但我們可以把它看成是一次社會韌性的實戰演練，這個實戰演練不是只有我們自己國人關心，國際也在關心，但不要忘了中共也在看！如果我們在一場天災過程當中，沒辦法在很短的時間內很有秩序地做完災後重建，其實中國也會看，如果臺灣遇到一次風災或接連的風災，沒有辦法在短時間裡做好家園重建的話，他們會看出我們在重建韌性的破口，這是我要提醒的。我要提出建議，現在中央有中央災害防救會報，院長是召集人；我們也設有中央災害防救委員會，副院長是召集人，當然，內政部長也有非常重要的角色。但是現在的災害都是複合型災害，風災、水災、土石流，像地震可能衍生其他的土石流、水災等等都有，所以現在的災害不是只有單一的，都是複合型災害。按照中央災害防救委員會的分工，風災、震災、地震屬於內政部；水災屬於經濟部；土石流屬於農業部，交通事故屬於交通部，各個部會都有。看起來好像都有在負責，不過從這次馬太鞍溪堰塞湖溢流就可以發現，其實是跨了好幾個部會。之前有學者專家建議，是不是仿效美國建立聯邦緊急事務管理署？也就是有防災總署來統合中央跟地方的權責，保存、傳承每一次災害應變的知識，這樣臺灣才不會在每一次災害發生時都要從零開始。院長怎麼看？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。我們也是從多年來的災害經驗，現在包括你剛剛說的，中央防災的體系組織，包括中央災害應變中心在內，目前整個組織都有一直在精進。這次堰塞湖有大量的土石流流下來，過去倒是真的比較少見這麼大量。我們之前在演練時，甚至假設過是海嘯，那時候我們想臺灣會有海嘯嗎？但我們還是把各種情境都納進來了。因為這個樣子、因為我們看到這一次的狀況，我們可以檢討我們的疏失，但是我們不能暴露我們的缺點！這個缺點要馬上、即時改正回來，所以我請內政部、經濟部，還有其他相關各單位馬上研究這整個災害的防救過程當中，是不是還缺少哪一塊，或是要加強哪一塊？如果能夠成立一個更有效的專責機構、有效率的組成的話，我想也是人民對政府的期待，我們做這樣的努力。"],["李委員坤城：我們中央有災害防救會報，由您擔任召集人，但是我剛才講過了，現在是複合型災害，會牽扯到各個部會。如果有一個專責性的，不管是叫署還是叫什麼，有一個專責單位來負責統籌，不論是由院長、副院長來統籌整個救災機制的話，院長會不會認為至少在下次面對這種事情時能更有效地統合各個部會？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在的會報或是我們的災防辦都沒有實際上可以去執行的量能。"],["李委員坤城：對，因為都在各部會。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，在各部會。像颱風來的時候，還有淹水的時候、土石流的時候，都由不同的單位做不同主責。我認為若未來複合型災害是這樣的頻繁，那麼我們應該想像有一個可以專責的、統合的單位來處理，光是現在的部會跟災防辦，我個人認為不夠。我會跟部會來好好考量，看未來怎麼樣儘快的……我說過我們要檢討，但不會把我們的缺點暴露出來。"],["李委員坤城：對，我是覺得每一次都把它當成是社會韌性的一個演習，我們希望災害降到最低，但是我們也希望每一次所發現的、能夠改善的部分要做為下一次精進的措施，所以我才會提到，其實這也不是這一次有人提到，每次發生這種複合型災害的時候就有人提到是不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也可以請中央應變中心指揮官來說說看他的想法跟經驗。"],["李委員坤城：來，劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝李委員，我想譬如以丹娜絲來看，可以看到電網韌性的部分或者是通訊韌性的部分，這個透過現在立法院全力支持之後，電網韌性跟通訊韌性都已經在加強當中，在這一次有關於土石流的部分，我也可以引用一位臺大教授所提到的，他所知道全世界其他的土石流災害，對不起，不是土石流，應該是堰塞湖的災害，臺灣的水準是在平均水準之上，當然，我們不能夠引以為傲，因為我們畢竟還有很多死傷，而且我們到現在為止仍然維持紅色警戒，也就表示天候不可預測。還有災害的時候，有很多人也在災難的現場，所以我們仍然維持紅色警戒是表示要持續監控，而且監控的力道不會比發生之前還要來得少，我們現在就集合包括國科會、農業部，或是包括全臺灣所有對於水利或是地震的這些專家來看看，我們下一次要怎麼做會更精進，我認為每一次的精進都是提供我們全社會防衛韌性最好的一個素材，也希望全民能夠支持，尤其在預算方面，這一點我們其實都保持一個非常開放的態度來接受各方的意見，再來檢討。"],["李委員坤城：OK。我再請教一下院長，今年度我們除了現在即將要審查的這個特別預算之外，其實還有其他5個，總共有6個特別預算在今年度我們都會做審查，今年度這6個特別預算歲出的規模將近5,000億，舉借的債務大概是2,852億，占比是57%左右，其實不低啦。再請教一下院長，國防部是不是在年底之前還會再送一個特別預算，是有關於不對稱作戰的特別條例及相關預算要送到立法院來做審議？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長來說明現在我們對於國家安全、國防安全的需求，也考慮到政府財政的能力，目前國防部有什麼樣具體的這些作為……"],["李委員坤城：因為時間有限，請部長簡短回答，是不是在年底之前有不對稱作戰的特別條例會送來立法院？"],["顧部長立雄：是，有關不對稱及防衛韌性的部分，我們會在下半年提送條例，然後送行政院審議，另外也會提出相關的預算。"],["李委員坤城：預算的規模大概是多少？"],["顧部長立雄：現在還在編製當中，所以我想還沒有做最後的定案。"],["李委員坤城：因為媒體有傳出大概是介於7,000億到1兆之間。"],["顧部長立雄：我想最後都還是要由行政院來……"],["卓院長榮泰：其實部裡面還在盤算各種的需求，目前都還沒有到院裡面來，但是……"],["李委員坤城：現在還在部裡面，還沒有送到行政院？"],["顧部長立雄：還沒有、還沒有。"],["李委員坤城：但是預計會在年底送到立法院來做審議就對了？"],["顧部長立雄：年底以前。"],["李委員坤城：年底以前？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["李委員坤城：這個不對稱作戰的重點是什麼？就是你們買的武器重點大概是哪些？"],["顧部長立雄：當然，我們會有軍購、商購還有委製的項目，主要的一些重點從名稱上就可以看得出來，就是在強化我們的不對稱戰力以及我們的防衛韌性，屬於這一個我們認為應該要擺入這個特別預算的項目……"],["李委員坤城：我們想要買的這些不對稱的武器有跟美方談好了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：當然，我們會跟美方來進行溝通，我們提出我們的需求，美方也會做出相對應的承諾，我們才會提出來……"],["李委員坤城：這樣子對於在關稅談判上面有幫助嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想談判的這個部分，我們的對口單位是不一樣的，我們是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我只能說談判的過程沒有提到軍事採購的部分。"],["李委員坤城：沒有軍事採購的部分？謝謝，謝謝院長。"],["主席：好，謝謝。謝謝李委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163813","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163813","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890ee05c2f12f24372a704543300bdabf028d97010e5f6ab85c5195ddf4f073bf875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"16:37:58 - 16:53:25","影片長度":"00:15:27","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T16:37:58+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T16:53:25+08:00","duration":927,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.58721875,"end":7.050968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.101593750000001,"end":8.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.56784375,"end":29.039093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.34284375,"end":33.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.93284375,"end":39.079718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.720968750000004,"end":46.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.26409375,"end":55.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.27971875,"end":58.080968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.283468750000004,"end":59.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.08909375,"end":75.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.49596875,"end":81.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.56221875,"end":86.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.26659375,"end":85.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.59971875000001,"end":95.67846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.70096875,"end":87.83159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.89409375000001,"end":94.59846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.42534375000001,"end":95.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.45909375000001,"end":97.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":97.80471875,"end":98.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.36159375000001,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.13346875,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.39471875000001,"end":102.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.28471875000001,"end":105.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.90034375,"end":108.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.97534375000001,"end":113.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.93721875000001,"end":118.15596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.54409375,"end":118.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.56096875,"end":119.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.33284375000001,"end":121.96971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.09221875,"end":121.78409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.96971875000001,"end":122.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.66159375000001,"end":123.87659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.87659375000001,"end":126.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.08284375000001,"end":129.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.34409375,"end":144.19409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.15596875,"end":146.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.60721875000002,"end":148.59846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.85159375,"end":162.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.35159375,"end":166.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.75596875000002,"end":175.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.05971875,"end":167.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.75034375,"end":182.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.09971875000002,"end":187.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.70659375000002,"end":189.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.86659375000002,"end":191.27534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.32159375,"end":208.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.09784375,"end":200.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.53909375,"end":205.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.51346875000002,"end":207.08721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.77909375000002,"end":223.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.82721875000001,"end":227.84346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.07971875,"end":234.20534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.62721875000003,"end":234.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.79596875000001,"end":239.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.94784375,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.08659375000002,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.41534375,"end":244.34721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.38096875000002,"end":246.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.19096875000002,"end":251.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.04659375000003,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.90659375,"end":255.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.02471875000003,"end":257.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.09221875000003,"end":257.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.47596875,"end":257.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.96534375,"end":263.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":262.94346875,"end":284.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.60034375000004,"end":271.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.97159375,"end":272.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.76409375000003,"end":276.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.78096875,"end":277.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.36659375,"end":294.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.45909375,"end":286.33221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.17596875000004,"end":288.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.80346875000004,"end":306.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.03784375000004,"end":309.85596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.85596875000005,"end":309.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.59846875,"end":316.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.42909375,"end":320.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.12409375000004,"end":323.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.52471875000003,"end":328.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.24971875,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.09721875,"end":333.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.36284375,"end":335.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.43409375000005,"end":342.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.32346875,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.94221875,"end":359.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.20659375,"end":367.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.34159375,"end":361.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.89409375,"end":365.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.02846875,"end":376.07346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.24346875000003,"end":368.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.32659375000003,"end":377.55846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.46159375,"end":379.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.11534375,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.88721875000005,"end":380.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.81534375,"end":389.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.23159375,"end":391.85159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.10034375000004,"end":393.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":393.30284375,"end":394.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.09596875,"end":399.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.35659375,"end":402.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.58409375,"end":404.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.76096875,"end":410.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.27909375,"end":413.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.96221875000003,"end":413.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.48534375,"end":413.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.51909375,"end":416.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.84346875,"end":421.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":421.77096875,"end":432.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":433.34721875,"end":440.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.39659375,"end":445.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.20596875,"end":453.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.44534375,"end":457.76534375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.05221875,"end":460.46534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.80284375,"end":467.04659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.33346875,"end":469.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":470.16846875000005,"end":472.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.37096875000003,"end":478.03221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.03221875,"end":479.93909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.24284375,"end":482.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.68971875000005,"end":485.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.69346875,"end":486.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.22909375,"end":488.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.96721875000003,"end":491.19471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.43534375,"end":491.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.24534375,"end":491.27909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.27909375,"end":491.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.31284375,"end":491.71784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.71784375000004,"end":492.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.73471875,"end":493.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.14784375000005,"end":495.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.02096875,"end":514.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.51159375,"end":518.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.48159375,"end":520.4897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":520.84409375,"end":535.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.04159375,"end":527.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.8047187500001,"end":530.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.44159375,"end":533.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.8459687500001,"end":543.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.05659375,"end":538.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.45721875,"end":539.8115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.6047187500001,"end":541.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.9209687499999,"end":548.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":543.38909375,"end":543.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.0928437499999,"end":550.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.54409375,"end":551.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":551.26971875,"end":558.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.09971875,"end":564.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.0734687500001,"end":570.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.63784375,"end":576.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.3415937500001,"end":581.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.18471875,"end":582.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.0790937500001,"end":585.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":585.0872187500001,"end":586.9097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.3315937500001,"end":587.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.0403437500001,"end":596.4272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.6140937499999,"end":589.0359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.0009687500001,"end":597.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.92909375,"end":601.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":602.28284375,"end":604.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.2865937500001,"end":605.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.3203437500001,"end":606.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":606.50159375,"end":606.7378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.22721875,"end":607.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.91909375,"end":607.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.93596875,"end":607.9697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.9697187500001,"end":612.3740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.2353437500001,"end":609.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.69471875,"end":616.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.84659375,"end":613.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.09096875,"end":624.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.10659375,"end":626.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.2622187500001,"end":626.5322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.5322187500001,"end":626.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.7009687500001,"end":626.9540937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.9540937500001,"end":627.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.03846875,"end":627.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.2578437500001,"end":627.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.5109687500001,"end":627.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.57846875,"end":627.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.6797187500001,"end":628.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.28721875,"end":629.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.33784375,"end":628.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.46846875,"end":633.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":634.21034375,"end":641.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":641.55096875,"end":644.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.48721875,"end":650.7478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":647.7609687500001,"end":654.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.18159375,"end":656.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.7847187500001,"end":664.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.98284375,"end":660.6028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":662.91471875,"end":663.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.58096875,"end":666.0872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.11659375,"end":668.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.65221875,"end":671.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":671.58846875,"end":674.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":675.0815937500001,"end":684.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.7678437500001,"end":686.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.7847187500001,"end":685.0715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":687.3328437499999,"end":692.1084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.1084687500002,"end":692.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.71596875,"end":692.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.73284375,"end":702.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.7565937500001,"end":708.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.4897187500001,"end":709.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.5234687500001,"end":709.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.8272187500002,"end":724.5590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.9453437500001,"end":710.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":717.43784375,"end":717.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.0365937500001,"end":720.86346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":724.74471875,"end":724.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.76159375,"end":726.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.3772187500001,"end":729.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.80721875,"end":733.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.52409375,"end":733.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.3972187500001,"end":740.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.8984687500001,"end":751.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":750.05721875,"end":750.8503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.9640937500001,"end":765.97034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.9978437500001,"end":752.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.6459687500001,"end":762.9328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":765.97034375,"end":766.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":766.24034375,"end":766.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.3372187500001,"end":767.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.1809687500001,"end":775.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.9265937499999,"end":778.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.8459687500001,"end":779.2678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.8247187500001,"end":790.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.05534375,"end":799.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":793.6115937500001,"end":794.2865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":799.5347187500001,"end":799.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.58534375,"end":800.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.29409375,"end":804.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":800.31096875,"end":800.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":800.4965937500001,"end":801.1884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.82096875,"end":805.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.7109687500001,"end":806.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":806.21721875,"end":806.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.16221875,"end":808.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":808.34346875,"end":814.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":814.8740937500002,"end":816.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":815.21159375,"end":816.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.20721875,"end":816.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.32534375,"end":816.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.4097187500001,"end":816.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.46034375,"end":816.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":816.9834687500002,"end":820.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":820.9153437500001,"end":827.3953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.3953437500002,"end":827.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":827.42909375,"end":828.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":827.44596875,"end":843.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":844.16909375,"end":845.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.72159375,"end":856.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":856.15034375,"end":858.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.11221875,"end":858.4115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":859.1709687500002,"end":860.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":859.77846875,"end":881.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.6147187500001,"end":889.5290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.8584687500002,"end":903.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":904.36221875,"end":910.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":911.51721875,"end":914.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.5378437500001,"end":918.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":918.5203437500002,"end":919.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":920.14034375,"end":922.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":922.67159375,"end":923.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":923.02596875,"end":924.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":924.34221875,"end":924.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.74721875,"end":924.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":925.42221875,"end":926.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":926.97471875,"end":927.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.9365937500002,"end":927.97034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.903,"end":6.609,"text":"主席 謝謝 麻煩請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":20.835,"end":46.229,"text":"好 院長好 國事如麻但是我們一起共同面對也共同承擔這一點是立法院跟行政院大家共同的事務那看到今天上午那麼多委員在針對這個關稅的議題我想也針對關稅議題之前還是要再請教一下因為現在花蓮的這個風災上午內政部李鴻元部長這邊有提到就說目前看拆下來這個驗射壺的部分"},{"start":47.641,"end":74.675,"text":"華洛這次崩塌只有7000萬公噸那上面據統計還有2.5億噸的泥沙在上面換言之有3倍半的泥沙還在這上面那這就如同是一個不定時炸彈也因此內政部李鴻元部長講說如果說發生五級地震或是豪大雨的話都還有可能崩塌下來我們不希望發生這個事情但是我們要做好超前準備跟超前部署請教 院長"},{"start":75.535,"end":85.676,"text":"建議是說要討論遷村或者是有準確的預警機制我們現在有沒有開始規劃了農業部一直在做水位的預防遷村的計畫"},{"start":86.896,"end":112.501,"text":"沒有千村的計畫如果我們再經過評估 真的需要我們一定沒有評估對 千村你要評估它在上面有2.5億噸的泥沙沒有610萬噸是沒有610萬噸沒關係 這個是李洪源部長所提的這個內政部部長之前還請李洪源部長來做科技的預算因此我們現在講的是料敵從寬但我們現在要問的是說有沒有千村的計畫"},{"start":114.036,"end":135.428,"text":"目前我們是說這個他從生的一個驗生物變成一個潛疊的驗生物造成未來的影響跟上市目前為止還沒有不是我們沒有說沒有什麼樣的狀況會考慮要遷春因為院長請容許本席先提醒喔當初莫拉克風災的時候當時的中央政府馬政府馬上啟動家園重建政策"},{"start":136.188,"end":157.425,"text":"編列預算並且協調部會來跟中央地方政府來做統一的溝通也因此完成了小林村的一個遷村那我們現在請教這一次看到的這個災害天災沒有人希望發生但是除了在您上禮拜有提到是說要開始救責以外我們更要問的是這些災民何去何從"},{"start":158.171,"end":165.997,"text":"因為這些災民他現在回報講師說家園說實在話即便是泥沙清淤完畢可能很難居住啊"},{"start":166.806,"end":190.947,"text":"委員就責是要為了吸取這次的經驗為未來做改善有效的改善那我們現在知道已經至少有89戶都面臨可能選擇要簽孫的需要那簽到哪裡去這個當然要評估再來什麼時候我們現在才要問的是說有沒有這個計劃已經啟動了沒你目前說還沒有什麼時候要啟動至少我們知道89戶那什麼時候挨家挨戶會"},{"start":192.548,"end":218.688,"text":"一個禮拜之內就可以完成一個禮拜之內完成一個禮拜內會有啟動89戶 千村的計畫嗎不是 89戶要先尋求因為我們所知道像原住民的這些災民或是其他的人會有各種不同的意見你早上有講是說追加預算就可以但是我們現在要看的是一個規模大小以及重點是不是錢的問題而是中央政府有沒有完整的規劃讓"},{"start":220.351,"end":222.66,"text":"讓災民能夠有一個完整的安身立命之處"},{"start":224.028,"end":249.658,"text":"這不是追加或者是說新的條例二則一這也不是說再也提出我們要新的條例中央就說不要而是怎麼樣對於災民最好您同意新的條例不是不要我是說這個方式是最快的你也認為是說新的條例可以可以接受方式是最快的你新的條例也沒有比現在追加快如果同意的話重點在於是說我們快撥錢可是如果說你沒有做事你沒有計劃"},{"start":250.618,"end":272.147,"text":"那撥錢怎麼用現在89戶至少我們在名單當中那是不是只有89戶也不一定所以你說一個禮拜一個禮拜內會清查完畢到底有多少人有意願圈村嗎那我們就來啟動這個圈村計畫我們現在的計畫是這樣國土署的計畫是這樣第一個復原重建裡面呢並不會排斥圈村但是目前我們所知道目前沒有規劃"},{"start":272.907,"end":293.907,"text":"不是 不是沒有規劃目前我們所知道大部分人都希望離村不離鄉那如果是離村不離鄉的狀況之下跟遷村的願望所以你還是要找一個合適的地點來去做陸續的重建嘛這個就是本席現在在請教你但是目前你沒有辦法拿出具體的辦法來 院長我請教當初喔"},{"start":294.824,"end":320.015,"text":"慕拉克的時候有一個主責單位跟地方政府來做一個良好的溝通也因此才會有所謂編列預算跟協調部會這兩件中央應該要做的事情那請教未來我們花蓮這一個光復鄉的一個部分是會由誰來主責我們現在是透過中央災害應變中心來組成協調所但是我講的是說千春以及重建計劃未來因為看起來"},{"start":322.162,"end":335.583,"text":"我實在話講這跟我第二個問題要請教因為你也提到在這一次的救災裡面其實社會不信任也是一個很大的問題社會為什麼不信任其實我想你我心知肚明"},{"start":336.605,"end":359.247,"text":"過去這一年多執政黨發起的大罷免到現在真的撕裂台灣很嚴重但過去已經過去了我一而再再三強調我們既然在這個位置上面就要為服國立民的事來做可是缺乏信任是事實那所以說我現在要請教如果未來還是內政部部長當窗口還是農業部部長當窗口你覺得中央地方可以有良好溝通嗎"},{"start":361.397,"end":389.365,"text":"還是要指派一位政委能夠來統和協調甚至院長或是副院長來下來來去做這樣的一個統和協調兩位部長都很專業也很稱職那如果說我們需要跨部會的協調工作多我當然會指派一位政委來做所以未來會有政委來去做溝通協調工作需要的時候當然這麼做好來那院長我再請教喔你有提到是說希望行政立法兩院一起努力邀請韓國瑜院長共同攜手合作"},{"start":390.266,"end":391.704,"text":"那我請教你具體的做法是什麼"},{"start":393.117,"end":421.852,"text":"你想要怎麼合作我在跟立法院要透過請立法院能夠加速審議重大法案跟預算之前我當然希望透過立法院的程序能夠完成但為了這個程序能夠順暢我不排除我也會積極的跟韓院長做更多的溝通我們希望在彼此有共識的情況底下更多的拜會更多的溝通討論這個都是可以積極馬上做的工作好因為本席這次陪同韓國瑜院長前往日本出訪這是跨黨派民進黨"},{"start":422.557,"end":440.559,"text":"民眾黨 國民黨各推派代表共同前往我想韓國瑜院長展現他的高度並且他在日本不只一次提到行政院院長卓榮泰承諾願意要把我們世博的台灣館展覽的內容給帶回台灣讓國人看到"},{"start":441.531,"end":469.092,"text":"韓院長不吝嗇把舞台做給卓院長即便卓院長你沒有在他身邊那一樣的道理行政立法就應該要互相溝通開誠布公不是思考黨派的問題你可以同意吧我也多次在國內跟朋友講到說韓院長帶領這個團到世博去看到台灣館都覺得很驚訝 驚豔所以他也希望能夠把他帶回來我也認為韓院長這個提議我們原來文化部就已經有他的相關的"},{"start":470.559,"end":490.91,"text":"所以目前預算有排出來明年可以讓國人看到台灣館在台灣文化部有一部分那其他的部分因為他這個館我們現在了解光是硬體的這個設備就要高達20億因為他是分四年編列我們都了解院長四駁五年一次"},{"start":496.072,"end":514.218,"text":"你今年的世博結束到明年如果來展覽可能現在世界各國已經在思考說下一個四年下一個五年就2030的時候要展什麼了所以我們也希望是讓大家看到最新的科技而不是拖一年兩年嘛所以明年可以讓國人在台灣看到台灣館"},{"start":515.623,"end":541.142,"text":"我們已經開過一次內部的這個會議來針對這件事情所以我們才了解一些初步的過程我們現在想要選擇的是他又如果要回來除了這個設備回來要落在哪裡是一個適當的地方落在哪裡就相對單純嘛但是我們現在講說行或不行讓國人能夠在明年看到台灣館我們努力這樣做啊因為他這個下個月就結束了我們希望一段時間能夠回來其實兩個禮拜後就結束來 院長"},{"start":544.324,"end":570.092,"text":"不過開誠布公就是要尊重制度就是不能分黨派我們上禮拜看到居然有我們的行政官員在民進黨團的群組裡面然後還跟民進黨的委員互相的來講出所謂要攻擊性的言辭這當然是民進黨的委員提到的可是我們其實國民黨的委員民眾黨的委員要布會首長的賴都不容易"},{"start":571.707,"end":600.837,"text":"如果說真的不分彼此不分大小眼而是看制度說話的話民進黨的委員可以那國民黨民眾黨能不能比較要求要求什麼把部會首長的LINE一起加進來跟我們討論通訊錄大家都有吧LINE啊但重點是私LINE啊LINE他除了是公務我先請教一下院長你有沒有掌握因為上禮拜新聞我相信你有看到嗎你有在那個群組裡面嗎並沒有你沒有那有多少位我們部會官員在那群組裡面"},{"start":602.799,"end":605.745,"text":"這個因為我不在裡面我也沒有事後去了解你的祕書長在那裡面啊"},{"start":608.034,"end":631.368,"text":"請教一下你的秘書長有多少人私下跟這個群組裡面會不會變成有多頭馬車院長只是一個部分然後黨團只是另外一個部分秘書長如果基於他了解整個訊息的傳遞那麼做事實的回應你也不了解有多少部會首長在那裡面我個人不了解因為我不在裡面那你認為這樣子的一個溝通到底是會更順暢還是會更"},{"start":634.25,"end":654.811,"text":"加深大家認為是說就是執政黨跟執政黨的委員溝通但是沒有在乎在野黨委員的意見而且跟執政黨跟在野黨的委員我們都有必須溝通的管道那如果這個群組的存在所以你認為是執政黨跟部會首長就是用LINE溝通就可以但是跟我們在野黨委員就是要公文往返是嗎"},{"start":658.482,"end":686.61,"text":"這個部分有他個人 行李如宜 公務機之外他有他個人的行政 我不能強迫院長本席還是希望尊重制度而不是因人設事這是很重要的一個議題來 院長再請教現在傳出來這個商務關稅的問題美國商務部長提到晶片55分我們在副院長第一時間講說不可能答應這樣的一個要求也沒有提及 也沒有討論 也沒有承諾"},{"start":687.386,"end":701.336,"text":"沒有提及沒有討論沒有承諾所以過去四五輪的談判都沒有提過沒有那為什麼商務部長會這樣突然間講出這樣的一個底線那代表美國的要求是明確的那過去這五輪裡面美國院長剛剛"},{"start":702.837,"end":728.975,"text":"在公開的講到是說美國都沒有提到晶片55分過去五輪談判都沒有提過美方他自己的說法我們不對這個說法做評論因為在談判當中但你剛剛已經有證實的是說過去沒有提到剛剛談判當中我們也會提出我們的想法美方提出想法但是我們不會把我們的想法對外公佈好 那我請教那如果說未來他要求64分73分有沒有可能同意"},{"start":729.984,"end":749.418,"text":"因為現在沒有討論這個議題啊我們的底線在哪裡因為沒有討論這個議題我現在沒有辦法來討論到說我們有什麼底線因為不在討論的議題當中過去到現在國人我們都希望政府部門好好談判但是每一次提到這個部分都會以雙方保密協議沒有辦法跟社會大眾溝通"},{"start":752.621,"end":766.573,"text":"現在美國商務部長已經很明確講要晶片五五分啊台積公司的1650億美金的這個投資案哪一年才會完全成立未來會不會觸及到台美晶片分配的問題"},{"start":768.22,"end":788.613,"text":"台積的這個1650億的投資到目前為止什麼時候會正式的量產都不知道但是我們國內的量會一直的增加所以這個比例上現在無法做一個定論但是但我們國內在先進製程上持續領先不管是世代或是數量這個是政府的政策跟對業界的要求"},{"start":790.033,"end":814.122,"text":"我們過去都有一個我們要加一的政策也就是台灣本土一定要比世界各國的製程還要更先進一代我們還可以維持這樣承諾嗎過去這一些談判有沒有觸及到這個議題會維持不管什麼樣的壓力即便商務部長今天這是商務部長的意思還是美國總統川普的意思"},{"start":814.943,"end":843.03,"text":"他的要求 不知道但我們沒有辦法再去跟他做進一步的確認或是溝通嗎我們只會確認到最後的兩國的這個最後的協議但是到底那個主張是哪一位好來那最後 院長時間有限我最後只請教因為今天我看到一個新聞是美國總統川普表示他考慮從美國獲取的關稅收入中撥款計畫未來給美國民眾最高兩千美金的紅包"},{"start":844.749,"end":860.299,"text":"6萬塊台幣他的裁員來源是什麼他裁員來源是說因為現在關稅的收入正在增加也因此他考慮把這個紅利撥放給全他們美國的全國民眾我們的普發現金是用我們的經濟共享成果是我們的納稅錢超徵稅收也好或說我們還稅也好那是我們人民的錢"},{"start":870.425,"end":894.808,"text":"但現在美國總統講的是說他用關稅的收入給世界各國收的關稅然後他要補發現金給民眾我請教身為中華民國的行政院長你可以接受這樣的說法嗎他用他關稅的手段做他國內的各種這個政策這個我們不予置評但是我們自己我們沒有超生稅收可以接受這樣的說法就是當他關稅拿了那麼多然後發給他們美國人民那孟崇尚那些錢是從哪裡來"},{"start":896.189,"end":923.97,"text":"從你我世界各國的關稅被多增加了被超徵了結果他去發給他們人民的現金我們自己都對我們國人沒有那麼多結果沒有想到美國總統他居然用這樣的一個手段中華民國行政院長可以接受嗎我們只接受我們自力自強把自己國內的這個任何的經濟發展跟產業發展以及人民的這個消費的額度我們盡量把它壓制在平穩的狀況底下院長你還是沒有直接回答問題 謝謝"},{"start":925.475,"end":926.021,"text":"好,謝謝王委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":858,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（16時38分）主席謝謝，麻煩請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長好。國事如麻，但我們一起共同面對，也共同承擔，這一點是立法院跟行政院共同的事務。看到今天上午那麼多委員針對關稅議題提問，我想在針對關稅議題之前，還是要再請教一下現在花蓮的風災。上午內政部李鴻源前部長有提到，目前勘災下來，堰塞湖的部分，這次滑落、崩塌只有7,000萬公噸，據統計還有2.5億噸的泥沙在上面，換言之，有3倍半的泥沙還在上面，這如同是一個不定時炸彈，也因此內政部李鴻源前部長講，如果發生五級地震或是豪大雨的話，都還有可能崩塌下來，我們不希望發生這個事情，但是我們要做好超前準備跟超前部署。請教院長，建議討論遷村或者是有準確的預警機制，現在有沒有開始規劃了？"],["卓院長榮泰：農業部一直在做所謂的預防……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有遷村的計畫？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再經過評估，真的需要……"],["洪委員孟楷：還要評估？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，關於遷村，要評估他們……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在上面有2.5億噸的泥沙……"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，是610萬噸。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["劉部長世芳：610萬噸。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係，這個是李鴻源前部長所提的，內政部部長之前還請李鴻源前部長來做科技的推算……"],["劉部長世芳：沖刷下來3萬噸，我們下禮拜會一起討論……"],["洪委員孟楷：因此我們現在講的是料敵從寬，但現在問的是有沒有遷村的計畫？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前我們是說它從深的堰塞湖變成淺的堰塞湖，造成未來的影響跟上次在9……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以到目前為止還沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，我們沒有說沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼樣的狀況會考慮要遷村？院長，請容許本席先提醒，當初莫拉克風災的時候，當時的中央政府（馬政府）馬上啟動家園重建政策，編列預算並且協調部會跟地方政府做統一的溝通，也因此完成了小林村的遷村。我們現在請教，這一次看到的災害，天災沒有人希望發生，但是除了在您上禮拜有提到要開始究責以外，我們現在要問的是，這些災民何去何從？因為這些災民現在回報的是，家園……說實在話，即便是泥沙清淤完畢，可能很難居住，院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，究責是為了吸取這次的經驗，為未來做有效的改善。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在至少已經知道有89戶都面臨可能選擇要遷村的需要，那遷到哪裡去？這個當然要評估；再來，什麼時候……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以我們現在才會問有沒有這個計畫？已經啟動了沒？你目前說還沒有，那什麼時候要啟動？"],["劉部長世芳：現在挨家挨戶來尋求這些……"],["卓院長榮泰：至少我們知道有89戶。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，什麼時候挨家挨戶會詢問完畢？"],["劉部長世芳：一個禮拜之內就可以完成89戶……"],["洪委員孟楷：一個禮拜之內就可以完成？一個禮拜之內就會啟動89戶遷村的計畫嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：不是，這89戶要先尋求，因為我們所知道像原住民的這些災民或是其他的人，他們會有各種不同的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，因為本席看到您早上有講追加預算就可以，但是我們現在要看的是規模大小以及重點不是錢的問題，而是中央政府有沒有完整的規劃，讓災民能夠有一個完整的安身立命之處？這不是追加或者新的條例二擇一，這也不是在野提出我們要新的條例，中央就說不要，而是怎麼樣對災民最好，您同意吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：新的條例不是不要，我是說這個方式是最快的。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你也認為新的條例可以接受？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這個方式是最快的，新的條例也沒有比現在追加快，如果同意的話，我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：但是重點是我們快撥錢，可是如果你沒有做事、你沒有計畫，那撥錢怎麼用？"],["卓院長榮泰：至少現在89戶在我們名單當中，是不是只有89戶也不一定，還會有多喔！"],["洪委員孟楷：對，所以你說一個禮拜內會清查完畢到底有多少人有意願遷村嘛，我們就來啟動這個遷村計畫，是不是？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，現在國土署的計畫是這樣，第一個復原重建裡面並不會排斥遷村，但是目前我們所知道這些家戶裡面……"],["洪委員孟楷：但目前沒有規劃？"],["劉部長世芳：不是沒有規劃，目前我們所知道大部分都希望離村不離鄉，如果是離村不離鄉的狀況之下，跟遷村的願望有點相距……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你還是要找一個合適的地點去做後續的重建嘛……"],["劉部長世芳：我們有配套措施。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個就是本席現在在請教您，但是目前你沒有辦法拿出具體的辦法。院長，當初莫拉克的時候，有一個主責單位跟地方政府做一個良好的溝通，也因此才會有編列預算跟協調部會這兩件中央應該要做的事情。請教未來花蓮光復鄉的部分會由誰來主責？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在是透過中央災害應變中心來組成前進協調所……"],["洪委員孟楷：那個是災害應變中心，但是我講的是遷村以及重建計畫，因為看起來……我實在話講，我第二個問題要請教，因為你也提到在這一次救災裡面，其實社會不信任也是一個很大的問題，社會為什麼不信任？其實我想你我心知肚明，過去這一年多執政黨發起的大罷免，到現在真的撕裂臺灣很嚴重，但過去已經過去了，我一而再、再而三強調，我們既然在這個位置上面，就要為福國利民的事來做，可是缺乏信任是事實。所以我現在要請教，如果未來還是內政部部長當窗口、還是農業部部長當窗口，你覺得中央、地方可以有良好溝通嗎？還是要指派一位政委能夠來統合協調，或是院長或是副院長下來做這樣的統合協調？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩位部長都很專業，也很稱職，如果我們需要跨部會協調的工作多，我當然會指派一位政委來做整個協調的工作。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以未來會有政委來做溝通協調的工作？"],["卓院長榮泰：需要的時候當然會這麼做。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。院長，我再請教，你有提到希望行政、立法兩院一起努力，邀請韓國瑜院長共同攜手合作，我請教你具體的作法是什麼？你想要怎麼合作？"],["卓院長榮泰：在請立法院能夠加速審議重大法案跟預算之前，我當然希望透過立法院的程序能夠完成，但為了那個程序能夠順暢，我不排除，我也會積極地跟韓院長做更多的溝通，我們希望在彼此有共識的情況底下……"],["洪委員孟楷：更多的拜會、更多的溝通、討論？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是可以積極、馬上做的工作。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。因為本席這一次陪同韓國瑜院長前往日本出訪，這是跨黨派，民進黨、民眾黨及國民黨，各推派代表共同前往。我想韓國院長展現他的高度，並且他在日本不只一次提到行政院院長卓榮泰承諾，願意把我們世博臺灣館展覽的內容帶回臺灣，讓國人看到，韓院長不吝嗇把舞臺做給卓院長，即便卓院長沒有在他身邊，一樣的道理，行政、立法就應該要互相溝通、開誠佈公，不是思考黨派的問題，你可以同意吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我也多次在國內跟朋友講到，韓院長帶領這個團到世博去，看到臺灣館都覺得很驚艷，所以他也希望能夠把它帶回來，我也認為韓院長這個提議，文化部原本就已經有相關的工作在做……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以目前預算有排出來，明年可以讓國人看到臺灣館在臺灣，對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：文化部有一部分，其他的部分，因為這個館，就我們現在了解，光是應體的設備就高達20億。"],["洪委員孟楷：20億，因為它是分四年編列，我們都了解……"],["卓院長榮泰：還有，我們要把它放到臺灣的哪裡？"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，世博五年一次，今年的世博結束，如果到明年來展覽，可能現在世界各國已經在思考下一個五年，即2030年的時候要展什麼了，我們也希望讓大家看到最新的科技，而不是拖一年、兩年嘛！所以明年可以讓國人在臺灣看到臺灣館？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經開過一次內部的會議來針對這件事情，所以才了解一些初步的過程，現在要選擇的是，它如果要回來，除了這個設備回來之外……"],["洪委員孟楷：行或不行一句話。"],["卓院長榮泰：它要落在哪裡是要在一個適當的地方。"],["洪委員孟楷：落在哪裡就相對單純嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：它是一個9公尺高的……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在講行或不行，讓國人能夠在明年看到臺灣館？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們努力這樣做啊！因為下個月就結束了，我們希望一段時間後能夠移回來。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個月啦！其實兩個禮拜後就結束。"],["卓院長榮泰：對不起，是這個月。"],["洪委員孟楷：不過，開誠佈公就是要尊重制度，就是不能分黨派，我們上禮拜看到，居然有行政官員在民進黨團的群組裡面，還跟民進黨的委員互相講出具攻擊性的言詞，這當然是民進黨的委員提到的，可是其實國民黨的委員、民眾黨的委員，要部會首長的LINE都不容易，如果真的不分彼此、不分大小眼，而是看制度說話的話，民進黨的委員可以，那國民黨、民眾黨能不能比照要求？"],["卓院長榮泰：要求什麼？"],["洪委員孟楷：把部會首長的LINE一起加進來跟我們討論。"],["卓院長榮泰：部會首長的通訊錄大家都有吧？"],["洪委員孟楷：LINE啊！重點是私LINE啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：LINE除了是公務……"],["洪委員孟楷：我先請教一下院長，你有沒有掌握，因為上禮拜的新聞，我相信你有看到嘛！你有在那個群組裡面嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：並沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有，那有多少位部會的官員在那個群組裡面？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不在裡面，我事後也沒有去了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：你的秘書長在那裡面啊！你沒有請教一下你的秘書長，有多少人私下在這個群組裡面？會不會變成有多頭馬車？會不會院長指示一個部分，然後黨團指示另外一個部分？"],["卓院長榮泰：秘書長如果基於要了解整個訊息的傳遞，做適時的回應……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以您也不了解有多少部會首長在那裡面？"],["卓院長榮泰：我個人不了解，因為我不在裡面。"],["洪委員孟楷：你認為這樣子的溝通，到底會更順暢，還是會更加深大家認為執政黨跟執政黨的委員溝通，但是沒有在乎在野黨委員的意見？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得跟執政黨跟在野黨的委員，我們都有必須溝通的管道，如果這個群組的存在，它必須要就事論事……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你認為執政黨跟部會首長用LINE溝通就可以，但是跟我們在野黨委員就是要公文往返，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：LINE這個部分，有他個人……"],["洪委員孟楷：行禮如儀、公文往返？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果除了公務機之外，他有他個人的選擇……"],["洪委員孟楷：形式主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不能強迫。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，本席還是希望尊重制度，而不是因人設事，這是很重要的一個議題。","再請教院長，現在傳出商務關稅的問題，美國商務部長提到晶片五五分，我們的副院長第一時間說不可能答應這樣的要求……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有提及，沒有討論，也沒有承諾。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有提及，沒有討論，也沒有承諾，所以過去五輪的談判都沒有提過？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：那為什麼商務部長會突然間講出這樣的一個底線？代表美國的要求是明確的，過去這五輪裡面，院長剛剛公開講的是美國都沒有提到晶片五五分，過去五輪談判都沒有提過，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：美方有他自己的說法，我們不對這個說法做評論，因為在談判當中……"],["洪委員孟楷：但你剛剛已經有證實過去沒有提到嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：雙方談判當中，我們也會提出我們的想法，美方提出想法……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那我請教……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們不會把我們的想法對外公布。"],["洪委員孟楷：我請教，如果未來他要求六四分、七三分，有沒有可能同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為現在沒有討論這個議題，所以我沒有做……"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們的底線在哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為沒有討論這個議題，我現在沒有辦法討論說我們有什麼底線，因為不在討論的議題當中。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，過去到現在，我們國人都希望政府部門好好談判，但是每一次提到這個部分，都會以雙方有保密協議、沒有辦法跟社會大眾溝通來搪塞……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在可以跟大家說的……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在美國商務部長已經很明確的講要晶片五五分。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在跟大家說的，台積公司的1,650億美金的投資案，哪一年才會完全成立，我們現在還不知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：未來會不會觸及到臺美晶片分配的問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說台積1,650億的投資，到目前為止，什麼時候會正式的量產都不知道，但是我們國內的量會一直增加，所以這個比例上現在無法做一個定論，但我們國內在先進製程上持續領先，不管是世代或是數量，這個是政府的政策跟對業界的要求，業界都有這個同理心。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們過去都有一個我們要加一的政策，也就是臺灣本土一定要比世界各國的製程還要更先進一代。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們還可以維持這樣的承諾嗎？過去這一些談判有沒有觸及到這個議題？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會要求、處理。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們會維持。"],["洪委員孟楷：會維持嘛！不管什麼樣的壓力，即便商務部長……今天這是商務部長的意思，還是美國總統川普的意思？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個我們無法了解。"],["洪委員孟楷：不知道？"],["龔部長明鑫：不知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：但我們沒有辦法再去跟他做進一步的確認或是溝通嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只會確認兩國最後的協議，但是到底這個主張的是哪一位……"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，因為時間有限，我最後只請教，今天我看到一個新聞，美國總統川普表示，他考慮從美國獲取的關稅收入中撥款，計劃未來給美國民眾最高2,000美金的紅包，等於臺幣6萬塊，他的財源來源是什麼？財源是因為現在關稅的收入正在增加，也因此他考慮把這個紅利撥放給他們美國的全國民眾。"],["卓院長榮泰：可能也因為這樣，國內的消費會上升。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們的普發現金是用我們的經濟共享成果、是我們的納稅錢，超徵稅收也好，或是我們還稅於民也好，那是我們人民的錢，但現在美國總統講的是，他用關稅的收入，等於向世界各國收的關稅，他要普發現金給民眾。身為中華民國的行政院長，你可以接受這樣的說法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：他用他關稅的手段，做他國內的各種政策，這個我們不予置評，但是我們自己沒有超徵稅收。"],["洪委員孟楷：你可以接受這樣的說法？他關稅拿了那麼多，然後發給他們美國人民，那些錢是從哪裡來？從你、我、世界各國的關稅被多增加了、被超徵了，結果他卻發給他們人民現金。我們自己對國人都沒有發這麼多，結果沒有想到美國總統居然用這樣的手段，中華民國行政院長可以接受嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只接受我們自立自強，把自己國內任何的經濟發展跟產業發展，以及人民消費的額度，我們儘量把它壓制在平穩的狀況底下。"],["洪委員孟楷：院長，你還是沒有直接回答問題，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163812","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163812","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890f5e6a7cc07605af8704543300bdabf028d97010e5f6ab85c9aa7beedfef2e22d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"16:21:49 - 16:37:39","影片長度":"00:15:50","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T16:21:49+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T16:37:39+08:00","duration":950,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.594718750000002,"end":13.800968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.25659375,"end":18.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":18.52596875,"end":20.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.89971875,"end":30.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.11471875,"end":32.329718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.447843750000004,"end":32.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":32.51534375,"end":33.494093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.56596875,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.06346875,"end":37.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.28659375,"end":39.940343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.97409375,"end":41.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.94846875,"end":46.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.690343750000004,"end":52.242218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.782218750000006,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.30096875,"end":63.852218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.02096875000001,"end":64.84784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.23596875,"end":66.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.43409375,"end":68.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.72909375,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.31909375000001,"end":87.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.25346875000001,"end":94.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.78409375000001,"end":95.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.31971875,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.17596875000001,"end":98.61471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.73784375000001,"end":121.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.78409375000001,"end":122.57721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":122.13846875,"end":125.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.09159375,"end":125.17596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":125.17596875000001,"end":125.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.19284375000001,"end":125.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":125.22659375,"end":128.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.36159375000001,"end":127.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":128.23034375,"end":137.30909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.82909375,"end":130.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.91346875000002,"end":131.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.30909375000002,"end":145.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":138.97971875000002,"end":140.27909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.71346875,"end":141.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.62846875,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.78034375000001,"end":148.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":146.42159375,"end":146.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.43846875,"end":146.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":146.53971875000002,"end":147.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":148.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":148.49721875,"end":159.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.05284375000002,"end":157.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.36909375000002,"end":161.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.67221875,"end":171.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.95346875,"end":173.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.61971875,"end":177.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.48409375,"end":181.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.89721875,"end":192.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":192.81096875,"end":196.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.03409375,"end":197.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":198.91971875000002,"end":200.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.01221875000002,"end":207.79596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":208.31909375,"end":208.96034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.96034375000002,"end":213.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.39846875,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.63846875000002,"end":219.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.01346875000002,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.04721875,"end":223.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.21534375000002,"end":232.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.89346875,"end":241.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.65284375000002,"end":233.76659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.04909375000003,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.09971875000002,"end":235.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.57159375,"end":240.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.59659375,"end":253.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.56971875000002,"end":252.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":253.56096875000003,"end":257.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.87284375000002,"end":255.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":255.94034375,"end":256.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.69534375,"end":257.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":257.72909375,"end":265.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.91471875,"end":259.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.47471875,"end":267.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":268.19159375000004,"end":269.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.94659375000003,"end":280.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":270.01409375000003,"end":270.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.49346875000003,"end":282.01221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.33284375,"end":286.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":282.95721875000004,"end":288.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.63159375000004,"end":290.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":289.87596875,"end":291.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.71534375000005,"end":298.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.84096875,"end":298.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":298.12784375,"end":300.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":299.52846875,"end":306.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.05159375,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.97534375000004,"end":302.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.18159375000005,"end":308.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.14721875000004,"end":310.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.32846875,"end":310.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.42971875,"end":310.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.53096875,"end":313.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.54784375,"end":311.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.88096875,"end":313.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.70346875,"end":315.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.30221875,"end":328.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":327.60846875000004,"end":330.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.11034375,"end":335.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.02909375,"end":338.22284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.34096875,"end":339.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.79596875000004,"end":345.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.35659375,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.65534375000004,"end":352.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.42721875,"end":354.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.77721875000003,"end":357.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.84846875,"end":361.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.84784375000004,"end":362.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":362.86034375,"end":365.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.76721875000004,"end":366.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.58971875000003,"end":366.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":366.64034375,"end":369.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":370.47096875,"end":377.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.05721875,"end":372.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.40221875000003,"end":380.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.98409375,"end":388.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.86096875000004,"end":386.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.30784375,"end":391.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.35784375000003,"end":397.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.12471875,"end":400.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.64346875,"end":401.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.90909375,"end":403.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.72721875,"end":407.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.66346875000005,"end":408.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.08096875,"end":410.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.70096875,"end":411.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.01721875000004,"end":414.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.15596875,"end":415.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.93221875,"end":418.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.57721875000004,"end":421.78784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.46284375000005,"end":422.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.59346875,"end":424.42034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.33159375,"end":426.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.25971875000005,"end":429.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.78659375,"end":430.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.05221875,"end":432.16596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.99284375,"end":438.98346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.72596875000005,"end":440.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.99159375000005,"end":442.25721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.37534375,"end":444.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.94034375,"end":446.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.71221875000003,"end":448.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.80471875,"end":449.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.98596875000004,"end":452.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.90096875,"end":456.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":457.12409375000004,"end":461.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.29284375000003,"end":459.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.08534375000005,"end":465.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":463.35096875000005,"end":464.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.78096875000006,"end":469.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":468.85221875,"end":469.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":469.27409375,"end":470.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.91534375000003,"end":477.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.07971875000004,"end":471.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":471.53534375000004,"end":471.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.60284375000003,"end":474.60659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.98159375000006,"end":478.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.56784375,"end":480.88409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.20471875000004,"end":482.72346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.17909375000005,"end":484.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.01846875,"end":486.90846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.16159375,"end":488.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.42721875,"end":488.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.84471875,"end":490.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.38471875000005,"end":491.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.73034375000003,"end":495.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":496.32471875000005,"end":497.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.65784375000004,"end":498.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.85596875000005,"end":500.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.86409375000005,"end":502.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.99034375,"end":504.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.89721875000004,"end":512.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.85846875000004,"end":511.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.5247187499999,"end":519.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":520.0678437500001,"end":528.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.2478437500001,"end":529.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.8215937500001,"end":531.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.97721875,"end":533.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.36534375,"end":534.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":535.1540937500001,"end":536.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.4365937499999,"end":539.2547187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.42346875,"end":542.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.7734687500001,"end":545.8359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":545.8359687500001,"end":551.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.20721875,"end":546.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":548.0803437500001,"end":551.3203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":551.6072187500001,"end":559.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.88096875,"end":556.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.3784687500001,"end":565.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":564.5672187499999,"end":570.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.3897187499999,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":568.71846875,"end":576.6328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.8447187500001,"end":570.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":574.3715937500001,"end":574.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.1897187500001,"end":581.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.2397187500001,"end":581.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.88096875,"end":581.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.2522187500001,"end":585.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.02846875,"end":584.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.55971875,"end":585.6272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":585.9309687500001,"end":587.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.9053437499999,"end":592.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.17471875,"end":593.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.17034375,"end":593.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.96346875,"end":594.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.0434687500001,"end":596.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.95034375,"end":597.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.1484687500001,"end":602.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.12659375,"end":603.7678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.38784375,"end":605.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":606.0290937500001,"end":608.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":608.07096875,"end":615.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.8759687500001,"end":615.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.51284375,"end":615.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.8840937500001,"end":615.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.90096875,"end":616.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":616.08659375,"end":619.2084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.10346875,"end":616.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.52534375,"end":616.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.79534375,"end":616.8290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.8459687500001,"end":617.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":618.5672187499999,"end":618.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.2084687500001,"end":619.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.2590937500001,"end":620.0690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.30971875,"end":625.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.2622187500001,"end":640.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.9240937500001,"end":629.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.99159375,"end":630.1940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.1940937500001,"end":630.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":639.0872187500001,"end":641.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.63534375,"end":642.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.52534375,"end":649.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":650.54534375,"end":654.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":650.91659375,"end":653.1609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":654.6459687500001,"end":663.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.7890937500001,"end":657.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":657.68346875,"end":659.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":661.5815937500001,"end":662.0203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.2353437500001,"end":665.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.75846875,"end":664.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.71596875,"end":670.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.5590937500001,"end":673.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.4953437500001,"end":679.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.65471875,"end":683.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":679.92471875,"end":680.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":681.03846875,"end":689.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":686.3372187500001,"end":688.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.03721875,"end":689.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.05409375,"end":689.1215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":689.1215937500001,"end":701.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.56846875,"end":692.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":702.14909375,"end":704.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.4697187500001,"end":703.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.8997187500001,"end":708.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":709.45596875,"end":712.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":710.82284375,"end":712.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.56096875,"end":712.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.5947187500001,"end":712.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.84784375,"end":712.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.94909375,"end":714.0459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":712.98284375,"end":713.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.0459687500002,"end":714.1303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":714.1303437500001,"end":723.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.1809687500001,"end":714.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.96034375,"end":722.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.51284375,"end":727.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":728.55846875,"end":729.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.97596875,"end":731.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.8740937500002,"end":735.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.5447187500001,"end":736.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":736.87784375,"end":738.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":739.6115937500001,"end":740.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.4172187500001,"end":742.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.6997187500001,"end":744.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":744.8090937500001,"end":746.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":747.4753437500001,"end":750.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":747.9140937500001,"end":747.9309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.4878437500001,"end":748.5047187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.5047187499999,"end":748.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.7578437500001,"end":748.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.96034375,"end":748.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":750.8840937500001,"end":754.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.16221875,"end":753.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":753.17909375,"end":754.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":755.2547187499999,"end":762.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":762.9834687500002,"end":764.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":763.18596875,"end":764.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.13096875,"end":767.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.69159375,"end":768.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.2778437500001,"end":770.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":771.06659375,"end":773.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.86784375,"end":778.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.6940937500001,"end":787.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":780.02721875,"end":781.7990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.23721875,"end":787.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":787.33409375,"end":787.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":787.38471875,"end":789.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.57846875,"end":789.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":789.61221875,"end":793.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.5734687500001,"end":795.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":797.47596875,"end":798.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":798.99471875,"end":808.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":800.74971875,"end":802.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.1203437500001,"end":809.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.4953437500001,"end":809.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.86221875,"end":811.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":811.6003437500001,"end":814.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":814.8740937500002,"end":817.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.62471875,"end":822.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":817.84409375,"end":817.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":822.5859687500001,"end":825.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":826.6359687500001,"end":826.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.6528437500001,"end":831.4622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":831.7153437500001,"end":833.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":834.02721875,"end":842.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":842.4140937500001,"end":843.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.71346875,"end":845.2322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":845.68784375,"end":850.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":851.2397187500001,"end":854.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.3403437500001,"end":856.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":857.24721875,"end":857.83784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.49596875,"end":873.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.69784375,"end":865.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":873.9365937500002,"end":874.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.79284375,"end":878.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":879.15096875,"end":880.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":881.59784375,"end":885.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.2722187500001,"end":889.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":887.8584687500002,"end":887.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.76534375,"end":891.6384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":892.65096875,"end":896.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.15659375,"end":912.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":913.50846875,"end":914.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":914.4028437500001,"end":918.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":914.5378437500001,"end":919.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.24596875,"end":935.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":921.0009687500001,"end":921.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":927.7509687500001,"end":929.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":945.01409375,"end":945.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":949.4353437500001,"end":950.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":950.6840937500001,"end":951.4097187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.089,"end":32.496,"text":"謝謝主席 江副院長 卓院長 以及各位先進有請卓院長 還有主計長一起請卓院長 主計長備詢內委員好院長辛苦了 不會應該的"},{"start":35.704,"end":53.383,"text":"我要開始講一下因為今天講錢的事情特別預算我要講一個我們地方政府一般地方政府大家普遍關心的統籌分配稅款一般補助款計畫型補助款現在行政院"},{"start":54.484,"end":71.189,"text":"對 我都說很大聲的 我這個統籌分配稅款給了四千一百多億你看 割這麼多肉 左手割 右手割結果 左邊給錢 右邊收錢 收回來多少 收回來2646元"},{"start":73.893,"end":95.52,"text":"就是一般補助館我們也寫決議說你不可以比去年少你就把計劃的把他錢挖一塊在這裡所以變成最後只有金針價1500多億所以講幾步還是中央集錢錢放在中央啦這東西心態可以改一下"},{"start":96.66,"end":118.35,"text":"主席長我知道你很辛苦 叫院長吵到沒錢找沒路結果發現不是 院長你還是牢牢的把錢賺在手上不輕易的給地方政府 明顯的左手給 右手拿回來結果競爭價只有1500 不是4100不要再講4100 那就是騙人你要回應嗎"},{"start":123.431,"end":144.876,"text":"4165億是統籌分配稅款增加的其中的2646億是屬於地方自己不是收回來 還是給地方只是你把地方的事權帶過去做而已沒有收回來啊這個資料是主計中處的資料"},{"start":145.697,"end":171.528,"text":"是把地方的事權帶過去做啊沒有啦 阿你報告 報告委員這個部分它是原來是地方自治應辦的事項只是它現在改由我們給統籌分配款來做支援這樣還有一個東西 院長你可能不知道喔現在我們就把不要只有看統籌分配款要Plus一般補助款Plus計畫補助款這三個全部加起來有九個縣市"},{"start":174.636,"end":196.365,"text":"一百一十五年比一百一十四年還要少所以為什麼 是因為水平分配不均衡是那個問題啦 就是你們暗砍啦這個東西 來 我就另外一個重點我先把問題丟出來今天這個沒有時間做太多的討論了需要跟主席的時候做討論這個倒希望能夠另外時間跟委員請教我們好好的來研究這個問題苗栗縣"},{"start":201.215,"end":223.451,"text":"一個留下查看的財務狀況的縣市 縣啊苗栗縣是不是列管 請問是不是列管列管 大家知道嘛 列管就是留下查看的他現在財務被你們這樣子跟台北市一樣好耶 第一名耶 第一級的苗栗縣 雖然我不是苗栗縣選出來立委 但是"},{"start":225.092,"end":245.799,"text":"路見不平啦 歧視贏人啦旁邊的人說我的歧視苗栗縣怎麼跟台北市一樣好有問題啊 主席董事長的資料 苗栗縣它的統籌分配稅款的增加是全國排第四所以它的統籌分配稅增加很多苗栗縣跟台北市一樣的笑死人啊大家一聽 蛤 真的喔 蛤"},{"start":246.659,"end":254.322,"text":"真的啊 苗栗縣比我們主席的台中市還要好耶苗栗縣第一名啊 台中市不是第一名啊請問你台中市第幾級"},{"start":268.254,"end":296.248,"text":"台中市應該是第二級啊第二級你看 台中市第二級啊這個副院長啊 要拍拍這個第一級啊 苗栗縣都第一級啊台中縣 苗栗縣就在台中旁邊我是台中出身的我台中人因為苗栗 他就是統籌分割證增加太多才跑到第一級啊我啦 會紅球啦 會紅球增加這麼多就是會紅球啊苗栗縣等於台北市的財務會紅球啦 這個要把它降級"},{"start":297.408,"end":321.422,"text":"補助才多一點他真的就增加到全國排第四啊否則這個標準不要照這麼算嗎應該是照新的財化法就這樣算我不希望你給答案啦 因為你現在胡說亂報我們再跟委員好好的請教 這個值得好好的來研究只是我說苗栗縣的財富跟台北市一樣好我給大家笑個啊啊 笑這麼大聲"},{"start":322.743,"end":350.164,"text":"都這樣 大家笑說苗栗縣居然會跟台北市一樣好 真的永久來 那個...那個...沒有啊 裁判你們就收回去啊收回去兩千六百多億來 我們看啊 那個...關稅問題啊你看哪一個部長要請...那個主席長請回啦喔這個對等關稅啊 怎麼談怎麼談你可以看嘛 今天美國出這個牌 明天出那個牌這都是你們官員講的"},{"start":351.727,"end":377.401,"text":"很簡單嘛因為川普跟習近平還沒有見面他們沒有見面以前台灣就搞不定這句話你同意不同意請問你國際局勢變化無常而且瞬間變化那美國中國之間進行任何的談判我們都無法去左右我們只專注於我們跟美方的談判能不能在我們談判四大原則底下守住我方的立場"},{"start":378.699,"end":403.233,"text":"你應該說我們很無奈啊今天你要他們談去談啊 為什麼拖我們呢我們要趕快搞定 現在苦哈哈的你可以想喔可以想喔 最近有發生一件事情喔很大的事情 今天盧秀燕這跟我們江副院長有關係喔江副院長當市長以後台中市長他就關心什麼 巨大捷安特"},{"start":404.798,"end":418.145,"text":"他的東西在美國海關被扣住了理由就是什麼強迫勞動看了幾個龍頭的一個大的產業怎麼會就這樣被美國扣住說強迫勞動這個盧秀燕"},{"start":425.81,"end":451.991,"text":"盧曉燕市長講的這個主席要好聽喔你以後當市長都已經聽到這個他絕對反對絕對反對中科變成跑去美國某一個州裡面設類中科結果我們的這個政府院長說什麼反對555反對555不接受555給不服農啊因為你們要成立類科學園區啊"},{"start":454.562,"end":473.274,"text":"這個盧修業市長已經表示反對台灣的經驗喔可以被學習但是不能被複製啦不會去學習內中科啦台灣的產業科學院去一個一個掏空搬去美國啊變這個樣子不會不會不會啊這樣台積電他就再次說明說很清楚的"},{"start":479.645,"end":501.889,"text":"美國現在就是台積電鎖定的 你來為什麼找捷安特捷安特 這個部長先不要走 等下這個為什麼找捷安特他是自行車業的世界的龍頭將你佔的廠商希望他到美國去討 譬如說PCB"},{"start":503.575,"end":526.894,"text":"龍頭就希望到美國去 一個一個希望你去美國美國打了正式算盤 今天盧修憲講的就是內中科團隊去某一個州 只有一個結果你們要推一個叫什麼 內科學園區啊你們有沒有嘛 部長有沒有內科學園區 去美國要搞一個內科學園區你要講四原則 台灣優先 台灣優先 我讚你政府對政府 怎麼會這樣想呢"},{"start":533.607,"end":556.726,"text":"報告委員因為台灣我們先是立足台灣嘛然後才佈局全球那佈局全球的話每一個人沒有辦法像台積電錢這麼多啦台積電的現金存量有超過上兆台積電他可以自己就是他有訂單的時候他就去賣那但是其他的廠商如果要佈局全球可能沒有辦法自己單打獨鬥所以為什麼要把這個"},{"start":559.608,"end":583.128,"text":"他要make American great again希望製造業都搬到美國把這個群聚的效果在其他國家創造出來跟台灣做連結這樣才有可能成功我現在講說你跟美國好怎麼好我們沒有意見但是不可以犧牲台灣的產業要像盧市長講的如果把整個中科搬到美國去他反對 我也反對立足台灣優先"},{"start":585.89,"end":602.198,"text":"這個很清楚看得到嘛這個來講所以你講說不接受五五分看起來很欺騙結果都是假的因為你們要假的更多假的更多是台灣的連根拔起一個元旗一個元旗拔去美國變這樣子"},{"start":606.035,"end":635.576,"text":"我們了解委員的顧慮跟推測因為海外佈局基本上是廠商必須有意願那邊會賺錢有訂單你們副院長已經講了啊副院長已經講到這樣子啊類科學園區模式啊他們如果要去的話我們就會把它形作一個產業聚落可以形成那這個產業聚落當然是台灣跟美國必須要合作才有辦法把這個聚落形成因為照過去的科學園區的經驗上來講的話政府還是有一些角色的"},{"start":636.156,"end":649.769,"text":"比如說一站式的窗口啊等等一些情況美國需要你幫忙去蓋劇錄 需要嗎美國需要台灣的經驗去蓋蓋辦嗎不要忘了我們的科學運具其實是仿Silicon Valley的"},{"start":650.6,"end":678.619,"text":"其實Silicon Marriott不是政府的力量我們是政府的力量 Silicon Marriott是比較是創新啦基本上是類似啦 科學園區就這樣子啦是生產 先進的生產製造對 不要忘了 這個科學園區之所以偉大因為新竹科學園區有一個台積電它半導體為主 佔了百分之七十幾很清楚 看得到結果你們現在來講說 我聽你蓋科學園區 美國是你鄉"},{"start":680.648,"end":708.448,"text":"台積電之所以偉大也是因為周邊的供應鏈或群聚所形成你講的重點他就是希望你的整個的搬走他要講喔別忘了美國的商業部長盧克尼克講了喔他希望台積電類似台積電加上他的Supply Chain通通過去我剛才向委員報告了就是說就廠商來講那邊要有訂單而且可以賺錢他才會去"},{"start":714.806,"end":737.564,"text":"我們是認為廠商的國際佈局是國家的一個政策可以協助但是一定要維持我們關鍵領先地位這個不容打折我時間有限實際上你們的回答我不滿意現在美國的農業部的次長來了有沒有可能要求大家都怕會要求零關稅"},{"start":739.673,"end":744.438,"text":"零關稅喔你可不可以承諾絕對反對零關稅農產品零關稅可不可以"},{"start":747.509,"end":772.856,"text":"我們在談對等關稅當中來 請部長說明我想我們在台美關稅對於市場建築的部分我想美國美光的期待台灣有台灣的要捍衛跟堅守的所以我們一定會堅持在糧食安全的前提之下還有維護產業那個我都聽不懂你就告訴我你就講一句話或者葛珮講一句話絕對不同意"},{"start":773.942,"end":791.888,"text":"美國的農產品零關稅進來台灣我跟委員報告齁零關稅你要看零關稅因為有的零關稅是對台灣有利的像原物料進來零關稅那我就跟你舉例啊農產品冷凍雞腿雞翅膀20%20%"},{"start":799.484,"end":824.522,"text":"我們現在所有的品項在談判的過程中我們現在還沒有辦法做最後的確認還沒有辦法做最後的確認第一個不可能全面准入而且是零關稅"},{"start":826.667,"end":841.474,"text":"另外在這個談判的過程當中我們必須要有取跟有捨那如果對我們的產業包括農業在發生衝擊的情況下農業部已經有180億的對產業的支持在裡面我們可以隨時支應我們不會讓業者發生這樣的困難我告訴兩位長官喔全世界WTO談判的時候有一項絕對保護就是農業"},{"start":852.255,"end":880.156,"text":"農業絕對保護 全世界都一樣包括美國一樣我們不能夠不保護否則 那個陳部長你會變成歷史罪人 可可會變成歷史罪人我們還會為捍衛農民的權益跟糧食安全結果是農產品零關稅讓他美國產品進來的話是你們就變成歷史罪人好 最後一個問題那個部長請回教育部教育部借這個任性趁火打劫"},{"start":881.896,"end":888.703,"text":"還要了這個產學合作一百億 笑死人來我要講一個東西這個我的重點在這裡 讓我講完喔"},{"start":893.017,"end":911.992,"text":"產學合作企業都有錢啊 為什麼產學合作 你要編100億然後為什麼你沒有編勞動部 為什麼沒有編我們的無薪假的勞工 已經8000多了 快要1萬了這個東西 關稅都影響了 肥累累一個不編 一個趁火打劫 要了100億 我絕對砍"},{"start":914.624,"end":930.207,"text":"為什麼產學有多 企業有錢啊你為什麼還要便利百億委員講這個是不公平的因為現在我們這些大學裡邊包含委員陳金任教的學校裡邊很多的這個STEM的老師都然後我們現在提出一個類一學院就是希望能夠大學的理工科的老師然後也能夠肥料我們的人才然後也能夠"},{"start":945.011,"end":947.196,"text":"好謝謝那個"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":634,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（16時21分）謝謝主席江副院長、卓院長以及各位先進。有請卓院長及主計長。"],["主席：請卓院長、主計長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：院長辛苦了，今天一天都在這裡。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，應該的。"],["賴委員士葆：我要開始講一下，因為今天講錢的事情，也就是特別預算，我講一個地方政府大家普遍關心的統籌分配稅款、一般性補助款、計畫型補助款。現在行政院對外都說很大聲，說統籌分配稅款給了四千一百多億，你看割這麼多肉，左手割、右手割，結果呢？左邊給錢、右邊收錢啦！收回來多少？收回來2,646億。一般性補助款我們也寫決議了，說不可以比去年少，你們就把計畫的錢挖一塊在這裡，所以變成最後只有淨增加一千五百多億，所以講半天，還是中央集錢，錢放在中央啦！關於這個東西，心態可以改一下啦！主計長，我知道你很辛苦，被院長操到這樣，沒錢又找不到路，結果現在發現不是耶！院長還是牢牢地把錢攥在手上啊！不輕易給地方政府，這很明顯的是左手給、右手拿回來，結果淨增加只有一千五，不是四千一啊！不要再講四千一，那就是騙人的，院長要回應嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：4,165億是統籌分配稅款增加的……"],["賴委員士葆：對，但是淨增加只有一千五啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：其中的2,646億是……"],["賴委員士葆：你們收回來了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們評估屬於地方……"],["賴委員士葆：收回來了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是收回來，還是給地方。"],["賴委員士葆：收回來了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：還是給地方。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有給啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：只是把地方的事權帶過去做而已。"],["賴委員士葆：沒，收回來了啦！現在就……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有收回來啊！"],["賴委員士葆：這個資料是主計總處的資料。"],["卓院長榮泰：是把地方的事權帶過去做啊！"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦！"],["陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，這個部分原來是地方自治應辦的事項，只是現在改由我們給統籌分配稅款來支應。"],["賴委員士葆：還有一個東西院長可能不知道，現在我們不要只有看統籌分配稅款，要plus一般性補助款、plus計畫型補助款，這三個全部加起來，有9個縣市是115年比114年還要少。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以為什麼？是因為水平分配不均衡。"],["賴委員士葆：不是那個問題啦！就是你們「暗崁」，關於這個東西，我就有另外一個重點，我現在把問題丟出來，今天沒有時間做太多的討論，需要的時候再跟主計長討論。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個倒希望能夠在另外的時間跟委員請教，我們好好的來研究這個問題。"],["賴委員士葆：我們來研究這個東西，苗栗縣，一個留校察看、有財務狀況的縣市，苗栗縣是不是被列管？請問是不是被列管？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，它目前……"],["賴委員士葆：列管大家知道嘛，列管就是留校察看，它現在的財務被你們這樣子弄之後，跟臺北市一樣好耶！第一名耶！苗栗縣變第一級的！雖然我不是苗栗縣選出來的立委，但是路見不平，這氣死人了啦！旁邊的人也氣死了，說苗栗縣怎麼跟臺北市一樣好？有問題啊！怎麼會跟臺北市一樣好？"],["卓院長榮泰：主計長的資料，苗栗縣統籌分配稅款增加的部分是排全國第四，因為它的統籌分配稅款增加很多。"],["賴委員士葆：苗栗縣跟臺北市一樣，笑死人！大家一聽，說：「啊？真的喔？」苗栗縣比我們主席的臺中市還要好，苗栗縣第一名啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：請主計長……"],["賴委員士葆：臺中市不是第一名。"],["卓院長榮泰：請主計長來說明，它原來不是第五級，是因為財政控管才跑到第五級。"],["賴委員士葆：是第一級啊！請問你臺中是第幾級？"],["陳主計長淑姿：跟委員報告一下，它原來是第三級，是因為它的舉債超過上限，所以把它列為第五級。"],["賴委員士葆：請問你臺中是第幾級？"],["陳主計長淑姿：臺中市應該是第二級。"],["賴委員士葆：臺中市第二級，副院長，要打拚一下，要第一級啊！苗栗縣就第一級，苗栗縣就在臺中旁邊，我是臺中出生的，我是臺中人，所以我對這個……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，因為苗栗就是統籌分配稅增加太多才跑到第一級。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦，這會被人家笑啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，增加這麼多就是會被人家笑。"],["賴委員士葆：苗栗縣等於臺北市的財務，這會被人家笑啦！這個要把它降級，補助才會多一點啦。"],["卓院長榮泰：它真的就……"],["陳主計長淑姿：表示增加了很多。"],["卓院長榮泰：它真的就增加到全國排第四啊！"],["陳主計長淑姿：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：否則這個標準不要照這樣算嗎？照現在的財劃法，就是這樣算。"],["賴委員士葆：我不希望你給答案啦，因為你現在就胡說八道一通。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們再跟委員好好的請教，這個值得好好的來研究。"],["賴委員士葆：我說會被人家笑，我說：「苗栗縣的財務跟臺北市一樣好」，大家笑到說：「啊？」笑得很大聲耶！大家笑說苗栗縣居然會跟臺北市一樣好！真的會被人家笑。"],["卓院長榮泰：按照新的財劃法，結果就是這樣子。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，財劃法你們就收回去了啊，收回去兩千六百多億。主計長請回。"],["陳主計長淑姿：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：我們來看關稅問題，你看要請哪一個部長。對等關稅怎麼談、怎麼談，你可以看嘛，今天美國出這個牌，明天出那個牌，這都是你們官員講的，很簡單嘛，因為川普跟習近平還沒有見面，在他們沒有見面以前臺灣就搞不定，請問這句話你同不同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：國際局勢變化無常，而且瞬間變化。"],["賴委員士葆：我就問你同不同意這句話？"],["卓院長榮泰：美國、中國之間進行任何的談判，我們都無法去左右。"],["賴委員士葆：當然啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們只專注於我們跟美方的談判，能不能在我們的談判四大原則底下守住我方的立場。"],["賴委員士葆：你應該說我們很無奈，這件事他們要談就談啊，為什麼拖我們的呢？我們要趕快搞定，現在苦哈哈的，你可以想像喔。最近有發生一件很大的事情，今天盧秀燕……這跟我們江副院長有關係，江副院長當市長了以後，臺中市長就關係著什麼？捷安特（GIANT），它的東西在美國海關被扣住了，理由是什麼？強迫勞動，看到鬼喔！這麼大的一個龍頭產業，怎麼會說是強迫勞動，就這樣被美國扣住？經濟部長一起上來。盧秀燕市長講的這個，主席要好好聽，你以後要當市長的，要認真聽這個，他絕對反對中科跑去美國某一個州裡面設類中科，結果我們的鄭副院長說什麼？他說：「反對五五、不接受五五」，根本是糊弄！因為你們要成立類科學園區，盧秀燕市長已經表示反對，因為這樣子整個掏空……"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣的經驗可以被學習，但是不能被複製。"],["賴委員士葆：怎麼會這樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會去學習一個類中科啦！"],["賴委員士葆：你們現在準備要把整個臺灣的產業、科學園區一個一個掏空搬去美國，變這個樣子。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啊！"],["賴委員士葆：捷安特……來，聽我講，不要急，你先……"],["龔部長明鑫：像台積電就再次說明……"],["賴委員士葆：我沒叫你講話，你先不要講。很清楚的，美國現在就是鎖定台積電，他叫你來，為什麼找捷安特？部長先不要走喔！跟你也有關係，請等一下。為什麼找捷安特？它是自行車業世界的龍頭，這麼讚的廠商希望它到美國去設廠，譬如說PCB龍頭，就是希望你到美國去，一個一個都希望你去美國，這是美國打的算盤，今天盧秀燕講的就是……"],["龔部長明鑫：好像沒有這樣的說法。"],["賴委員士葆：「類中科」，反對去某一個州設一個，結果你們要推一個叫「類科學園區」，部長，有沒有？要去美國搞一個「類科學園區」，也講四個原則，臺灣優先，臺灣優先多棒啊！government to government、政府對政府，怎麼會這樣想呢？請部長回答。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們先是立足臺灣然後才布局全球，布局全球的話，你總是要有一個方法……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有辦法像台積電錢這麼多啦！台積電的現金存量超過上兆嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：是，台積電可以自己……它有訂單的時候它就去……"],["賴委員士葆：它可以分出去，但別的地方它沒有辦法啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：但是其他的廠商如果要布局全球……"],["賴委員士葆：各位長官你們聽好啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：可能沒有辦法單打獨鬥，所以為什麼要把……"],["賴委員士葆：美國是有計畫的，他要「Make America Great Again.」，希望製造業都搬到美國。"],["龔部長明鑫：把這個群聚的效果在其他國家創造出來跟臺灣做連結，這樣才有可能成功。"],["賴委員士葆：沒有，我現在講你跟美國好，要怎麼好，我們沒有意見，但是不可以犧牲臺灣的產業……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["賴委員士葆：像盧市長講的，如果把整個中科搬到美國去，他反對，我也反對，老實講站在我是臺中出生的……"],["龔部長明鑫：立足臺灣優先、立足臺灣優先才有布局。"],["賴委員士葆：這個很清楚看得到嘛！以這個來講，你說不接受「五五分」，看起來很有氣魄，結果都是假的啦！因為你們要給得更多、給得更多，臺灣等於連根拔起……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！"],["賴委員士葆：一個園區、一個園區拔了跑去美國，變這樣子！"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們了解委員的顧慮跟推測啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：因為海外布局基本上是廠商必須有意願，那邊會賺錢、有訂單，它才會去布局。"],["賴委員士葆：你們副院長已經講了，副院長已經講這樣子啊！「類科學園區」模式啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：他們如果要去的話，我們就會把它形塑為一個產業聚落，這個產業聚落當然是臺灣跟美國必須要合作才有辦法把這個聚落形成。因為照過去科學園區的經驗來講，政府還是有一些角色的，比如說一站式的窗口等等一些情況，這個是行政上……"],["賴委員士葆：美國需要你幫忙去蓋聚落？需要嗎？美國需要臺灣的經驗去蓋嗎？不要忘了，我們的科學園區是仿Silicon Valley的，但其實Silicon Valley不是政府的力量，而我們是政府的力量，差在這邊而已耶！對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：不一樣，Silicon Valley比較是創新啦，臺灣的聚落是……"],["賴委員士葆：基本上是類似的，科學園區就這樣子啊，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是先進的生產製造，所以有一點點不一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：不要忘了，科學園區之所以偉大是因為新竹科學園區有一個台積電，它以半導體為主，占了百分之七十幾，很清楚、看得到，結果你們現在講說：我們替你蓋科學園區。美國心裡想：我怎麼需要你幫我蓋科學園區呢？笑死人了！"],["龔部長明鑫：台積電之所以偉大，也是因為周邊的供應鏈或群聚所形成，它才有辦法這麼偉大。"],["賴委員士葆：對，你講到重點了，它就是希望你整個搬走啊！他有講喔！不要忘了美國的商業部長盧特尼克講的，他希望台積電、類似台積電的，加上它的supply chain通通過去。"],["龔部長明鑫：我剛才向委員報告，就廠商來講，那邊要有訂單，而且可以賺錢，它才會去，因為它是一個公司，必須要向投資人負責。"],["賴委員士葆：你們有在push啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們認為廠商的國際布局是國家政策可以協助的，但是一定要維持我們的關鍵領先地位，這個不容打折啊！"],["賴委員士葆：我時間有限啦，事實上你們的回答我不滿意啦！現在美國農業部的次長來了，有沒有可能要求……大家都怕他會要求零關稅喔！你可不可以承諾絕對反對零關稅？反對農產品零關稅，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在談對等關稅當中……請部長說明，來。"],["陳部長駿季：我們在臺美關稅對於市場進出的部分……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要講其他的，回答這個就好……"],["陳部長駿季：我想美國有美方的期待，但臺灣有臺灣要捍衛跟堅守的，所以我們一定會堅持，在糧食安全的前提之下，還有維護產業……"],["賴委員士葆：那個我都聽不懂啦，你講的我都聽不懂，你就告訴我，你就講一句話，或者閣揆講一句話「絕對不同意美國的農產品零關稅進來臺灣」，講這一句就好，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：你不要講其他的，這個Yes or No？"],["陳部長駿季：你要看零關稅，因為有的零關稅是對臺灣有利的，像原物料進來零關稅……"],["賴委員士葆：你講這個，那我就舉例農產品中的冷凍雞腿、雞翅膀20%，你要不要零關稅，你告訴我？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在所有的品項……"],["賴委員士葆：稻米也有關稅啊！"],["陳部長駿季：品項還在談判的過程中，我們現在沒有辦法做最後的確認……"],["賴委員士葆：你還是沒有回答我。來，院長你講話吧！你來講個立場。"],["陳部長駿季：還沒有辦法做最後的確認。"],["賴委員士葆：農民會怕啊！我們怎麼辦呢？你可不可以承諾？美國如果跟我們要，美國會提出來喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個……"],["賴委員士葆：農產品零關稅全面進口，我絕對反對，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，不可能全面准入，而且是零關稅。"],["賴委員士葆：絕對不可能嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：另外在談判的過程當中，我們必須要有取跟有捨，如果對我們的產業，包括農業，在發生衝擊的情況之下，農業部已經有180億對產業的支持在裡面，我們可以隨時支應……"],["賴委員士葆：還不夠、還不夠。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不會讓業者發生這樣的困難。"],["賴委員士葆：我告訴兩位長官，全世界WTO談判的時候有一項絕對保護的就是農業，農業絕對保護，全世界都一樣，包括美國也一樣，我們不能夠不保護，否則陳部長你會變成歷史罪人，閣揆會變成歷史罪人喔！"],["陳部長駿季：我們還是會捍衛農民的權益跟糧食安全……"],["賴委員士葆：如果你跟美國談的結果是農產品零關稅，讓美國產品進來的話，你們就會變成歷史罪人。","好，最後一個問題，部長請回。教育部藉著「韌性」趁火打劫，還要了產學合作100億，笑死人！勞動部……"],["卓院長榮泰：那是對高教人才。"],["賴委員士葆：來，我要講一個東西，我的重點在這裡，讓我講完，關於產學合作，企業都有錢，為什麼產學合作要編100億？為什麼沒有編在勞動部？為什麼沒有編？我們無薪假的勞工已經八千多了，快要1萬了，關稅影響的很嚴重，一個不編、一個趁火打劫要了100億，我絕對砍！"],["洪部長申翰：那個……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，您講這樣不公平……"],["賴委員士葆：部長，為什麼產學合作？企業界有錢啊！為什麼你還要編100億？"],["鄭部長英耀：委員講這樣是不公平的。"],["賴委員士葆：不公平？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為現在我們這些大學裡，包含委員曾經任教的學校裡，很多STEAM的老師都……"],["賴委員士葆：企業有錢啊！直接產學合作啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們現在提出類醫學院是希望讓大學理工科的老師能夠跟產業合作，然後也能夠培養我們的人才，更能夠紓緩……"],["賴委員士葆：企業有錢，不需要你編100億啊！這是趁火打劫啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們希望企業能夠捐資給大學，成立講座，然後延攬海內外優秀學者……"],["主席：謝謝，部長是不是再用書面回復賴委員？"],["鄭部長英耀：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝賴委員，謝謝卓院長。","陳冠廷委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員陳冠廷書面質詢：","主旨：關於「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」之質詢","一、稻米與雞、豬肉產業的風險準備","1.關於農業敏感產品保護機制：","(1)行政院是否已建立「農業敏感產品清單」？稻米與雞、豬肉是否被列為絕對優先保護項目？","(2)若未來美方要求擴大開放稻米市場或降低雞、豬肉配額，最終決策層級為農業部、經貿辦還是國安會？請說明跨部會決策機制。","(3)稻米和雞、豬肉是否為政府設定的「不可退讓紅線」？當農業部認為會衝擊產業，但經貿單位認為必須讓步時，最終裁決權責歸屬為何？","2.關於190億農業韌性預算中美國市場拓展經費之質詢：","(1)預算書第71頁編列「獎勵花卉及其種苗、毛豆、國產茶葉、鱸魚、吳郭魚、鬼頭刀、虱目魚、魷魚、鰻魚等品項業者拓展美國高端外銷市場所需經費約45億元」，此筆預算占農業韌性預算比例甚高，為何特別鎖定美國市場？","(2)若廠商欲拓展日本、歐洲等其他高端市場，是否得申請此筆補助？若否，理由為何？若可，預算科目為何特別標明「美國」？","(3)此筆預算之設計是否能有助於降低對美貿易順差？請說明編列考量。","3.關於稻米與雞、豬肉產業體質強化：","(1)190億農業韌性預算中，規劃用於強化稻米與雞、豬肉產業體質之經費為何？占總預算比例為何？","(2)預算書中貸款及冷鏈相關編列，如何直接連結至提升稻米與雞、豬肉產業競爭力？請具體說明執行策略。","二、普發現金的防詐與消費效益強化","1.關於防詐機制與AI客服導入：","(1)數位發展部是否已協調電信業者建立惡意簡訊攔截系統，在詐騙簡訊發出前即予攔截？","(2)上次普發6,000元期間，165反詐騙專線接獲多少報案？本次預估增加多少？","(3)本次預算書業務費3.53億元中，「網路客服」編列1.27億元，其中用於防詐之經費為何？","(4)是否評估在165反詐騙專線試辦導入AI客服技術，處理標準化詢問（如「簡訊是真的嗎」、「網站安全嗎」），讓真人專線專注處理複雜案件？若可行，預計何時啟動？若有疑慮，主要考量為何？","2.關於消費效益提升與宣導策略：","(1)本次編列媒體宣導1,350萬元，宣導內容規劃為何？是否僅說明領取方式，或同時包含鼓勵消費、支持國內產業之內容？","(2)根據央行統計，上次普發6,000元相當比例轉為儲蓄，本次如何透過宣導引導有消費能力之民眾提高消費意願？","(3)是否規劃整合各部會消費優惠資訊，鼓勵支持在地商圈、購買國產品？若否，理由為何？","三、關鍵基礎設施防護","1.關於無人機防禦系統部署：","(1)本次特別預算針對關鍵基礎設施強化編列無人機相關裝備之緣由為何？未來部署及應用規劃為何？","(2)內政部警政署保安警察第二總隊編列21億餘元採購無人機、干擾器、無人機偵蒐系統、無人機電子圍籬等，預計購買數量為何？預計分布於哪些關鍵基礎設施？","2.關於系統故障及內部安全漏洞之因應：","(1)鑒於去年520前夕龍崎變電所跳電、峨眉超高壓變電所遭竊賊闖入，以及今年9月9日興達電廠發生爆炸意外，此類關鍵基礎設施安全漏洞未來如何強化因應？","(2)興達電廠爆炸調查結果指出廠商未使用正確規格墊片，台電監督責任為何？如何精進？","(3)本次特別預算主要針對外部防範，針對內部人員操作、廠商施工品質等內部問題，是否編列相關預算強化？若否，如何確保內部作業安全？","3.關於保安警察第二總隊人力部署：","(1)保安警察第二總隊目前派駐1,811名警力於油、水、電、通訊等關鍵基礎設施，目前部署情形為何？","(2)本次興達電廠發生爆炸之興建廠區並未有保二警力派駐，是否檢討人力及派駐地點需求？保二總隊人力是否充足？能否增加關鍵基礎設施之人力部署？","四、海防特別預算","1.關於預算編列規劃與財政紀律：","(1)本次「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」與國防部、海委會公務預算，以及接下來之「不對稱作戰及作戰韌性特別預算」，編列規劃為何？是否有重疊或重複編列之狀況？","(2)透過特別預算編列之必要性為何？為何需透過特別預算編列，而非編列於公務預算內？","(3)強化指管通信、設施更新及提升戰備量能、強化海防等項目過去曾編列於公務預算，本次透過特別預算編列之原因為何？請具體說明特別預算編列之特殊性與必要性。","2.關於國軍與海巡署雷達系統整合：","(1)本次特別預算欲整合國軍與海巡署雷達系統，過去國軍雷達與海巡雷達系統是否各自獨立、未經整合？","(2)過去情資如何交換？面對灰色地帶侵擾時，如何協調應對？","(3)整合國軍及海巡雷達系統建立情資共享平台後，預期效益為何？","3.關於滲透偷渡事件因應：","(1)去年至今至少發生4起中國籍人士駕駛小艇衝岸事件，海委會報告亦提及近一年來透過陸籍小型目標測試滲透、偷渡事件頻仍，監察院調查報告要求行政院與海巡署檢討，檢討報告內容為何？","(2)監察院指出海巡署岸際雷達性能難以掌握橡皮艇等小型目標、監偵作業自動化不足而需仰賴人員長時間專注監視、智慧型岸際監控系統及紅外線熱影像系統布建密度不足，以及守望哨配備之光學望遠鏡辨識距離有限等問題，監偵設備及量能是否不足？精進作為為何？","(3)針對透過小艇、小型目標侵擾之情形，是否可透過雷達系統之提升與整合來應對？未來還可如何強化監控，避免透過類似方式侵擾？","4.關於海巡艦艇增建與無人載具部署：","(1)本次特別預算規劃增建海巡艦艇及強化無人載具部署，具體規劃為何？","(2)海巡署編列68億元籌獲各式無人機、訓場及訓練設備，無人機預計購買多少架次？性能為何？能否長距離長時間飛行並因應天候因素？預計何時完成籌獲？","(3)完成部署前，暫時性之應對作為為何？","(4)本次特別預算無人機之籌獲是否交由「空中作業隊」來部署？「空中作業隊」接下來之規劃為何？","5.關於海巡署有人機隊組建評估：","(1)海巡署未來是否規劃組成有人機隊？甚至增加定翼機隊？","(2)海巡署是否評估過組成定翼機或旋翼機隊，以巡邏、偵巡周邊水域，無論是海巡署自行編制機隊及人員，或是以租賃方式組建，海委會及海巡署之規劃為何？","(3)若組建有人機隊，預期效益為何？如何與無人機、雷達站等監控系統形成空海協同與分層監管？","五、無人載具系統共同作戰圖像","1.關於軍民共同圖像系統監偵能力計畫：","(1)國防部編列5億元「軍民共同圖像系統監偵能力計畫」，建置共同圖像平台整合既有雷達與偵監系統，此筆預算是否用於建立與美軍JCOP（Joint Common Operational Picture）相當之「共同作戰圖像」標準，能讓各種無人機之影像與數據即時整合？","(2)美方商售無人機（例如彈簧刀、Altius）是否已簽署協定，能直接連結我方之共同圖像平台？若否，如何確保戰時向美方採購之無人機影像能即時進入我方指揮所？","(3)未來是否有計畫讓此平台不僅供軍用，還能與海巡署、民航局、國安單位等跨部會協同，真正建構屬於台灣之JCOP？","2.關於無人機異質整合戰略：","(1)國防部目前採購之無人機來源多元，包含美國商售、中科院研發、國內商規廠商，如何建立能整合各式無人載具之平台，組成戰力最強之系統？","(2)是否理解無人機戰力來自於各種無人載具之異質整合，而非單一最佳平台？","(3)請於本會期內提出明確之無人機戰略以及共同作戰圖像標準，確保「軍民共同圖像」名符其實。","六、海巡無人載具訓練","1.關於無人載具訓練機制：","(1)海巡署編列近41億元籌補各式海空無人載具，裝備到貨後，訓練由誰負責？是海巡署自行訓練、廠商代訓，或是納入國防部之無人機訓練體系？","(2)是否確保第一線操作人員具備無人載具操作、維護及酬載更換能力？訓練規劃與時程為何？","2.關於平戰轉換與跨部會協同：","(1)海巡署之新無人機、無人船、岸基感測站，是否全部接入國防部之聯合情監偵平台，發揮共同作戰圖像能力？","(2)若海巡署無法串接國軍聯合情監偵平台，如何落實平戰轉換機制，發揮「第二海軍」能力？","(3)請說明海巡署與國防部在資料鏈、共同作戰圖像方面之協同整合規劃。","請行政院及相關權管部會就上述問題提供詳細說明，並提出具體可行之政策方案。請於兩週內回覆。"],["主席：下一位請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163811","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163811","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890b5d6b037c883e5f1704543300bdabf028d97010e5f6ab85c3dc5b1e4eb39a2a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"16:06:05 - 16:21:41","影片長度":"00:15:36","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T16:06:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T16:21:41+08:00","duration":936,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.109718750000003,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.15159375,"end":12.434093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.031593750000003,"end":23.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.12409375,"end":25.242218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.25909375,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.153468750000002,"end":35.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.85659375,"end":39.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.53096875,"end":45.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.89721875,"end":66.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.00784375,"end":250.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.77659375000002,"end":255.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.48034375000003,"end":291.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.05409375,"end":284.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.88409375000003,"end":291.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.95159375000003,"end":304.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.50659375000004,"end":307.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.96596875,"end":320.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.57159375000003,"end":321.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.76971875000004,"end":337.63221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.88534375,"end":341.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.66534375000003,"end":400.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.76596875,"end":373.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.86284375,"end":401.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.36909375000005,"end":430.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.20409375,"end":432.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.60471875,"end":434.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.18659375000004,"end":456.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.88784375,"end":468.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.46409375,"end":567.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":567.80721875,"end":605.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.4722187500001,"end":611.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.74971875,"end":618.7022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":618.88784375,"end":624.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.92909375,"end":646.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.98471875,"end":654.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.2703437499999,"end":670.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.9978437500001,"end":690.1003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.14659375,"end":705.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.67596875,"end":726.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.27596875,"end":750.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":751.3059687500001,"end":816.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":817.28721875,"end":862.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":864.9253437500001,"end":865.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":865.95471875,"end":870.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":870.76409375,"end":871.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":871.6584687500001,"end":873.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":874.3247187500001,"end":878.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":878.7122187500001,"end":882.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.52596875,"end":883.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.82534375,"end":887.0147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.33534375,"end":893.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.75721875,"end":889.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":894.0515937500002,"end":895.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.06409375,"end":896.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.1103437500001,"end":897.4265937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":897.20721875,"end":898.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":897.8147187500001,"end":900.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.85659375,"end":900.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":900.9365937500002,"end":919.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":919.4822187500001,"end":920.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":919.5834687500001,"end":924.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":924.49409375,"end":927.3628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":924.6965937500001,"end":927.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":927.3628437500001,"end":927.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.78846875,"end":931.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":933.33659375,"end":933.9947187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":935.46284375,"end":938.1459687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":9.161,"end":23.408,"text":"好 有請卓院長好 請卓院長備詢林委員好"},{"start":26.246,"end":31.772,"text":"我們跳到第一頁好 莊院長我們看這一次颯枷颱風襲擊花蓮光復鄉我們在無人機國家隊在這一次的襲擊風災當中確實無見蹤影"},{"start":45.948,"end":65.393,"text":"那也不管是災前的預測災時的疏散以及災後人員物資的運送完全看不到無人機國家隊所以本期建議應該是直接台灣走入國際AI無人載具產業供應鏈要從高雄再出發"},{"start":67.045,"end":84.27,"text":"好這個本行的幾個重點第一個AI美台關稅的重災區是在高雄第二個台灣對於國際AI無人載具的需求是迫切的第三個國際AI無人載具的涵蓋範圍到底有多寬呢那到底有哪些第四個"},{"start":84.65,"end":109.449,"text":"台湾国际AI无人载具的产业目前是缺乏整合也无法进入美军供应链第五个成立高雄国际AI无人载具产业中心这是本席今日的诉求新的法人那他这个法人也不是只有制造而且要扩大测试跟训练产育以及具体就会有一些要求"},{"start":110.309,"end":133.298,"text":"那這個所謂的美台關稅重災區在高雄那對於包括工具居金屬加工 汽車零組件等全部是哀鴻遍野所以今天審查這樣的一個特別預算本行認為結合國家的防禦韌性產業實際的需求及友邦的戰略策略"},{"start":133.958,"end":149.523,"text":"在建立高雄國際AI無人載具產業中心的急迫性跟必要性它的落實產業聚落以及納入在地廠商成為國防採購的清單好我們看台灣在國際AI無人載具的產業鏈的現況因為台灣善於成本的控制以及量產"},{"start":160.507,"end":177.973,"text":"所以在無人載具的自製程趨勢台灣目前是年產1萬架在2028年的時候預估是要年產18架市場的規模也從50億要提升到300億的規模在這個韌性特別預算當中也提到要1151億元用於國土"},{"start":180.854,"end":198.178,"text":"安全韌性預期採購無人載具無人艇的國造及相關設備好我們現在國防預算來帶動無人載具美國既然要求我國呢要有這個提升自我保護能力確實今年的國防預算也達到GDP的3.32%"},{"start":200.619,"end":215.831,"text":"達到9495億那現在這10年內本土業者也投入商規軍用的無人載具的研發但本席認為成平時期就應該用軍規軍用這句話我是講給國防部聽的國防國際尋找無人載具飛鴻"},{"start":222.616,"end":243.905,"text":"這個是本國的契機烏克蘭在戰前的時候只有50架的無人載機在今年提出400萬架的需求美國呢他年產不到10萬架但是他自己國會提出法案要求自治年產到100萬架與中國抗衡台灣最大的無人載具的買家呢是波蘭但是他每年呢是3200萬對台採購而已所以國內來發展非紅供應鏈的"},{"start":251.09,"end":255.247,"text":"國際AI無人載具的產業是非常非常有市場的"},{"start":256.57,"end":283.975,"text":"好那這個國際AI無人載具到底涵蓋哪什麼範圍呢海陸空空中還分為低空中高空跟高空所謂的平流層這個水呢也分為水面跟水下陸用呢有這兩個系統AMR跟AGV跟還有無人載具的反制系統好那台灣國際AI無人載具的產業目前就是缺乏整合無法進入的美軍的供應鏈"},{"start":284.895,"end":306.782,"text":"缺乏整合也在這一次的風災華家沙颱風當中沒有辦法在救災發生工人破工了這當中也就是缺乏整合怎麼樣的沒法整合的現況我讓院長知道這件事情台灣無人載具的產業基地必須擴大在去年11月的時候我就要求國發會研議高雄發展為無人載具的國產"},{"start":308.332,"end":323.957,"text":"畫的基地得到的回應是什麼呢選定嘉義縣作為基地建議高雄的工藝就跟嘉義的亞創無人載具基地合作就好了好果然果然這個就破功了"},{"start":325.958,"end":339.79,"text":"但是現在國內外都急需飛鴻供應鏈美國軍工新創是多次來一台尋求合作商機就以這一次剛結束的航太展很可惜我們沒有一家國內的廠商進入"},{"start":341.972,"end":362.391,"text":"美国的这个军工供应链的产业链的清单一家都没有虽然签了很多MOU可是讲实际的我们国内没有一家是进入到这个产业链也就是没有这样的订单所以支持要院长以这个国家的高度来支持大南方各县市来发展无人载具的产业"},{"start":362.791,"end":383.581,"text":"好現在大南方各自又怎麼發展呢那現在呢就是台南啊他也發展無人載具投入空拍看宅啦屏東呢也將大鵬灣發展為無人載具的水上飛行場那高雄的也結合無人機的與A岸的用於隧道的巡檢跟登革熱的噴上那台船在高雄港也發表了高雄製造的無人艇的奮進魔鬼漁船"},{"start":385.001,"end":398.847,"text":"來爭取國防部的訂單所以中央應該看到我們大南方的需求擴大設置無人載具製造跟培育場域的這樣的一個量能那美軍的無人載具的規範是明確的"},{"start":400.888,"end":421.954,"text":"但台湾业者有能力却无法服归美国军用无人载具的军规他们是讲的很严格的有出口管制国安审查以及透过美国制的plus plus uas的认证来确认无人载具的合规性但国内却没有一个国家对完全符合这样的一个军规"},{"start":422.674,"end":450.095,"text":"好 我在這邊本席主張成立高雄國際AI文人載具中心以彙整全國測試數據重點是這句話沒有數據就沒有AI要不要只講AI 我要AI AI國家 AI城市但是完沒有數據一切都是NO我們現在的測試各自為證測試完後就丟了 數據就沒有了就沒有人在追蹤了 去做整合了是好可惜的一件事情"},{"start":450.615,"end":457.103,"text":"所以這個中心一定要做到會診全國的測試數據進而招商引資輔導讓國內的業者進行國際認證的標準既然要達到這個軍規軍規就一定要搞到國際認證的標準及加入國際供應鏈同時有這種游輪載具是高"},{"start":468.456,"end":484.767,"text":"一度的跨領域的系統整合且具有應用服務的針對性所以應該有全新的法人那院長我讓您知道現在各自的法人有什麼沒有辦法做到的像以中科院他僅能滿足國家防衛需求並未對產業進行國際認證"},{"start":487.529,"end":514.595,"text":"更不可能切入國際供應鏈的輔導對接好讓我們來看經濟部工研院跟金屬中心他只著重執行經濟部的科專計畫且以技術研發為核心喔他在國際鏈結與產業落地的方面是這個這兩個人是不足的更不要說他要匯整全國測試數據當然就不利於無人載具的AI技術無人載具的核心在AIAI的核心在數據"},{"start":515.855,"end":528,"text":"我們來看看資策會偏重軟體的推廣其實資策會也都沒有在做研發了那我們都希望他高利潤的就是在軟體的部分他也無法協助國內的軟體業切入國際無人載具的供應業"},{"start":531.001,"end":559.693,"text":"好我們來看高雄可作為國際AI無人載具研發示範這次的風災嘉義縣的無人載具基地怎麼了受災了所以他根本就沒有發揮救災勘察的功能所以就有必要在高雄設置備援基地就近接觸高雄的量能在哪裡我們有金屬加工有螺絲扣件有IC設計產業建立整合海陸空的全方位的無人載具研發示範場域報告院長"},{"start":560.493,"end":581.109,"text":"任何一個城市不可能有像高雄這樣海陸空相關的所有的業者集聚在一個城市內好再來完整的戰備供應鏈就在高雄烏克蘭每天損失上萬家的無人載具靠的不是中央補給靠的是各地甚至下到家庭工廠的戰備供應鏈重點是"},{"start":584.051,"end":610.625,"text":"普遍的一個戰備供應鏈的一個資源它整個的軍方系統我國無人載具製造不應該只有中科院來獨立承擔高雄具有金屬扣件複合材料機械製造直通訊的軟硬體軍工跟船舶的製造無疑是緊急狀態下最完整的戰備供應鏈所在這句話是重點整體的戰備移動距離一定要在30分鐘內"},{"start":612.287,"end":623.94,"text":"來完成有哪一個城市可以這樣的一個國際AI無人載具我們從民間的量能要馬上提升為軍的當中在居民"},{"start":625.394,"end":646.08,"text":"這個共一起合作當中尤其是無人載具這件事情一定是軍是佔一他的民佔二只有民的這個的雙倍的量能才有可能支撐軍在無人載具不管是海陸空一定要民的量能是雙倍才有可能支撐"},{"start":647.5,"end":670.315,"text":"軍方的一個無人載具的一個量體重點所以今天這個中心無非就是在培養這樣一個民間的量能好那再來看高雄我們這樣的中心不是只做製造而且是要擴大測試跟訓練場域我們的情形可以作為無人艇的製造測試場域高雄的情形是國內少數具有規模的造船產業聚落"},{"start":671.115,"end":688.1,"text":"而且我們在台船跟中信造船都在提供周遭已經發表智慧無人船以及興達港作為水下載具的研發測試基地在興達海基國產離岸風電政策退場之後剛好可以轉型培養水下基礎的人力測試我們的羅西庫里宮山"},{"start":691.201,"end":709.743,"text":"在大岡山地區剛好可以轉型無人載具的供應鏈我們的大岡山是國內最大的金屬扣件聚落可以持續的跟軍方合作推動航空零組件及複合材料認證以及重複的帶動高雄的在地供應鏈符合國際軍工"},{"start":711.384,"end":722.407,"text":"規的標準好最後我具體的要求這樣的國際高雄國際AI無人載具的產業中心的任務是什麼會展全國測試數據發展無人載具的AI第二個輔導國內業者對接國際無人載具的產業標準第三個任務"},{"start":727.909,"end":750.062,"text":"兼顧我國的國防需求跟國際產業鏈結第四個任務它是國內外廠商共同進行垂直整合應用的服務能夠讓國內內走可以打入國際的供應鏈最後先以硬體代軟體再以軟體代硬體的發展國際AI無人載具的產業策略對業者來講就是一定要訂單"},{"start":751.423,"end":777.205,"text":"所以呢先讓國內業者在倡議這麼多的時候你一定要讓業者拿到訂單先讓國內的業者關鍵零組件次系統的業者拿到訂單之後再透過我們的運用服務的計畫實現AI服務AI科技服務代工的國際商機最後本席也要求這個主管機關在經濟部該中心直屬經濟部直屬經濟部不是法人在分出來"},{"start":777.905,"end":799.549,"text":"所有的中心人員跟顧問的朋友需兼具國家國防思維及國際軍工產業鏈的視野接軌國際AI無人載具的產業鏈院長這讓你知道現在的窘境是什麼國防中科院他們都是軍人所以他絕對有國防思維但是他沒有國防軍工產業鏈的思維"},{"start":800.369,"end":816.244,"text":"講到經濟部他當然有這個國際他不至於有沒有國際思維但是他有產業思維但是他沒有國防的思維所以今天我們的無人載具要加強我們台灣的國防自主任性的時候"},{"start":817.318,"end":837.704,"text":"他其實是需要這個法人他的人員聘任需要這樣的資格好再來本席認為這個預算的來源來自哪裡在落這個條例的落日之前116年12月31號之前就利用這該特別預算的國防部編略的預算當中113億的8000多萬"},{"start":839.925,"end":861.236,"text":"當中來編列成立這個中心在這個預算落日之後由主計總處依新增機關運作預算新增預算給經濟部編列常態性的資本門跟經常門的預算來做永續所以本期具體要求行政院能夠兩個月內提出具體的執行計畫 院長請回答"},{"start":865.26,"end":893.359,"text":"好 謝謝委員我們在無人機的起步是比較慢所以現在一定要國家隊的模式來進行另外呢無論是商用商規 軍用軍規商用跟軍規之間一定要跨界現在我們正在努力做這樣的一個跨界再來我們現在雅創二館雅創一館 雅創二館在執行那高雄有它的地理之變就是我們可以在高雄未來發展水面水價的這個無人船無人船的部分可以上市在高雄那你說這個是經濟部主管"},{"start":894.139,"end":918.905,"text":"我想國防部在未來一定要有角色所以一定是一個國家隊的概念所以當然我就是認為說還是由經濟部來主導如果我放到國防部 我也很頭痛這個國防部從頭到尾都是軍人的思維我如果要發展產業鏈 我要花多大的力氣去說服所有我們軍方的高官中 中科院就是將官啊"},{"start":919.705,"end":921.766,"text":"我們現在也有一個無人載具產業統籌的發展計畫"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":597,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（16時6分）有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：卓院長，我們看這一次樺加沙颱風襲擊花蓮光復鄉，我們的無人機國家隊在這一次的風災當中確實無見蹤影，不管是災前的預測、災時的疏散，以及災後人員、物資的運送，也完全看不到無人機國家隊，所以本席建議臺灣走入國際AI無人載具產業供應鏈，要從高雄再出發。","本席有幾個重點：第一個，美臺關稅重災區是在高雄；第二個，臺灣對於國際AI無人載具的需求是迫切的；第三個，國際AI無人載具的涵蓋範圍到底有多寬呢？到底有哪些？第四個，臺灣國際AI無人載具產業目前缺乏整合，也無法進入美軍供應鏈；第五個，成立高雄國際AI無人載具產業中心是本席今日的訴求，這個新的法人不是只有製造，而且要擴大測試與訓練場域；以及本席有一些具體要求。","所謂美臺關稅的重災區在高雄，包括工具機、金屬加工、汽車零組件等，全部是哀鴻遍野，所以今天審查這樣的特別預算，本席認為應該結合國家防衛韌性、產業實際需求及友邦的戰略策略，正視建立高雄國際AI無人載具產業中心的急迫性及必要性，並落實產業聚落及納入在地廠商成為國防採購的清單。","我們來看臺灣在國際AI無人載具產業鏈的現況。因為臺灣善於成本的控制及量產，隨著無人載具的自製成趨勢，臺灣目前一年產1萬架，在2028年的時候預估要年產18萬架，市場的規模也從50億要提升到300億的規模。在這個韌性特別預算當中也提到，有1,151億元用於國土安全韌性，預期將採購無人載具、無人艇的國造及相關設備。","而在透過國防預算來帶動無人載具方面，美國要求我國要提升自我保衛能力，確實今年的國防預算也占GDP的3.32%，達到9,495億，為10年來最高，本土業者也投入商規軍用無人載具的研發，但本席認為，承平時期就應該用軍規軍用。這句話，我是講給國防部聽的。","鑑於國際尋找無人載具非紅供應鏈，這是本國的契機，烏克蘭在戰前的時候僅有50架的無人載具，今年提出400萬架的需求，美國年產不到10萬架，但是他自己國會提出法案，要求自製年產100萬架與中國抗衡。臺灣最大的無人載具買家是波蘭，但是每年只有3,200萬對臺採購，所以國內發展非紅供應鏈的國際AI無人載具產業是非常、非常有市場的。","國際AI無人載具到底涵蓋什麼範圍呢？海、陸、空，空中還分為低空、中高空跟高空──所謂的平流層；水也分為水面跟水下；陸用又有這兩個系統──AMR跟AGV，還有無人載具的反制系統。","臺灣國際AI無人載具產業目前就是缺乏整合，無法進入美軍的供應鏈，也在這一次的樺加沙颱風風災當中，在救災時公然破功了，這當中也就是缺乏整合，關於怎麼樣沒辦法整合的現況，我讓院長知道這件事情。","臺灣無人載具的產業基地必須擴大，在去年11月的時候，我就要求國發會研議高雄發展為無人載具的國產化基地，得到的回應是什麼呢？已選定嘉義縣作為基地，建議高雄的供應鏈就跟嘉義的亞創無人載具基地合作就好了。果然這個就破功了！但是現在國內外都急需非紅供應鏈，美國軍工新創多次來臺尋求合作商機，就以這一次剛結束的航太展來說，很可惜我們沒有一家國內的廠商進入美國軍工供應鏈、產業鏈的清單，一家都沒有！雖然簽了很多MOU，可是講實際的，我們國內沒有一家進入到這個產業，也就是沒有這樣的訂單。所以要院長以國家的高度來支持大南方各縣市來發展無人載具的產業。","現在大南方各自又怎麼發展呢？現在臺南也發展無人載具投入空拍勘災；屏東也將大鵬灣發展為無人載具的水上飛行場；高雄也結合無人機與AI，用於隧道巡檢跟登革熱噴藥；台船在高雄港也發表了高雄製造的無人艇「奮進魔鬼魚號」來爭取國防部的訂單，所以中央應該看到我們大南方的需求，擴大設置無人載具製造跟培育場域的量能。","美軍的無人載具規範是明確的，但臺灣業者有能力卻無法符規，美國軍用無人載具的軍規很嚴格，有出口管制、國安審查以及透過「美國製＋Blue UAS認證」來確認無人載具的合規性，但國內卻沒有一個國家隊完全符合這樣的軍規。","在這邊本席主張成立高雄國際AI無人載具中心，以彙整全國測試數據，重點是這句話，沒有數據就沒有AI！不要只講AI，我要AI、AI國家、AI城市，但是沒有數據一切都是No！我們現在的測試各自為政，測試完後就丟了、數據就沒有了，就沒有人再追蹤、做整合了，這是好可惜的一件事情！所以這個中心一定要做到彙整全國的測試數據，進而招商、引資、輔導，讓國內的業者進行國際認證的標準，既然要達到軍規，就一定要達到國際認證的標準以及加入國際供應鏈，同時有鑑於無人載具是高度跨領域的系統整合，且具有應用服務的針對性，所以應該要有全新的法人。","院長，我讓您知道，現在各自的法人有什麼沒有辦法做到的？像中科院，它僅能滿足國家防衛需求，並未對產業進行國際認證，更不可能切入國際供應鏈的輔導對接；我們來看經濟部相關的工研院跟金屬中心，它只著重執行經濟部的科專計畫，且以技術研發為核心，它在國際鏈結與產業落地的這兩方面是不足的，更不要說它要彙整全國測試數據，當然就不利於無人載具的AI技術。無人載具的核心在AI，AI的核心在數據！我們來看看資策會，它偏重軟體的推廣，其實資策會也都沒有在做研發了，我們都知道高利潤就是在軟體的部分，它也無法協助國內的軟體業切入國際無人載具的供應鏈。","我們來看高雄可作為國際AI無人載具研發示範。這次的風災，嘉義縣的無人載具基地怎麼了？受災了，所以它根本就沒有發揮救災、勘災的功能，所以就有必要在高雄設置備援基地，就近接觸，那高雄的量能在哪裡？我們有金屬加工、有螺絲扣件、有IC設計產業，建立整合海、陸、空等全方位的無人載具研發示範場域。報告院長，任何一個城市都不可能有像高雄這樣海、陸、空相關的、所有的業者齊聚在一個城市內。再來，完整的戰備供應鏈就在高雄。烏克蘭每天損失上萬架的無人載具，靠的不是中央補貨，靠的是各地，甚至下到家庭工廠的戰備供應鏈，重點是普遍的一個戰備供應鏈來支援整個軍方系統。我國無人載具的製造不應該只有中科院來獨力承擔，高雄具有金屬扣件、複合材料、機械製造、資通訊的軟硬體、軍工跟船舶的製造，無疑是緊急狀態下最完整的戰備供應鏈所在，這句話是重點，整體的戰備移動距離一定要在30分鐘內完成，有哪一個城市可以有這樣的一個國際AI無人載具？在民間的量能要馬上提升為軍的當中，在軍民一起合作當中，尤其是無人載具這件事情，一定是軍占1、民占2，只有民有雙倍的量能才有可能支撐軍在無人載具的部分，不管是海、陸、空，一定要民的量能是雙倍，才有可能支撐軍方在無人載具的量能。而重點是，今天這個中心無非就是在培養這樣一個民間的量能。","再來看高雄，我們這樣的中心不是只做製造，而且要擴大測試跟訓練場域，我們的旗津可以作為無人艇的製造測試場域。高雄的旗津是國內少數具有規模的造船產業聚落，而且台船跟中信造船都已經在旗津周遭發表智慧無人船；另外，以興達港作為水下載具的研發測試基地，興達海基在國產離岸風電政策退場之後，剛好可以轉型培養水下基礎的人力培訓；我們的螺絲窟在岡山，大岡山地區剛好可以轉型為無人載具的供應鏈，我們的大岡山是國內最大的金屬扣件聚落，可以持續跟軍方合作，推動航空零組件及複合材料認證，同步帶動高雄的在地供應鏈符合國際軍工規的標準。","最後，我具體的要求，這樣的高雄國際AI無人載具產業中心的任務是什麼？彙整全國測試數據，發展無人載具的AI技術；第二個，輔導國內業者對接國際無人載具的產業標準；第三個任務，兼顧我國的國防需求跟國際產業鏈結；第四個任務，推動國內外廠商共同進行垂直整合應用服務，讓國內廠商能夠打入國際供應鏈；最後，先以硬體帶軟體，再以軟體帶硬體發展國際AI無人載具的產業策略，對業者來講，一定要有訂單，所以在倡議這麼多的時候，你一定要讓業者拿到訂單，先讓國內的關鍵零組件、次系統業者拿到訂單之後，再透過我們的應用服務計畫，實現AI科技服務代工的國際商機。","最後，本席也要求該中心的主管機關在經濟部，直屬經濟部，不是法人再分出來，所有中心人員跟顧問的聘用需兼具國家國防思維及國際軍工產業鏈的視野，接軌國際AI無人載具的產業鏈。院長，這要讓你知道，現在的窘境是什麼？國防、中科院他們都是軍人，所以他絕對有國防思維，但是他沒有國防軍工產業鏈的思維，講到經濟部，他當然有國際……有沒有國際是一回事，他有產業思維，但是他沒有國防的思維，所以今天我們的無人載具要加強臺灣國防自主韌性的時候，他其實是需要這個法人，他的人員聘任需要這樣的資格。","再來，這個預算的來源來自哪裡？在這個條例落日之前，也就是在116年12月31號之前，利用該特別預算案中由國防部編列的一千一百三十一億八千多萬來編列成立這個中心；在這個預算落日之後，由主計總處依新增機關運作預算原則，新增預算給經濟部編列常態性的資本門跟經常門預算永續經營。本席具體要求行政院能夠於兩個月內提出具體的執行計畫，院長請回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。委員，我們在無人機的起步是比較慢，所以現在一定要以國家隊的模式來進行。另外，無論是商用商規或軍用軍規，商用跟軍規之間一定要有一個劃界，現在我們正在努力做這樣的劃界。再來，我們現在亞創一館、亞創二館在執行了，高雄有其地理之便，就是我們在高雄未來發展水面、水下的……"],["林委員岱樺：院長，我讓你……"],["卓院長榮泰：無人船部分可以在高雄。而你提到這個要由經濟部來主管，我想國防部在未來……"],["林委員岱樺：一定要有角色……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以一定是一個……"],["林委員岱樺：但是主管機關只有一個啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：國家隊的概念。"],["林委員岱樺：是啊！當然我認為還是由經濟部來主導，如果放到國防部，我也很頭痛，國防部從頭到尾都是軍人的思維，我們如果要發展產業鏈，要花多大的力氣去說服所有軍方的高官，中科院就是將官啊！我們還要讓他……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在也有一個無人載具產業統籌的發展計畫，我們希望到2030年有400億的……"],["林委員岱樺：就是因為人的思維沒打開，所以下面就做不了。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們部會來做橫向聯繫。"],["林委員岱樺：好，我們之後再來協調。"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟部來主管。"],["林委員岱樺：好，經濟部主管，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝林岱樺委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請賴士葆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163810","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163810","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890004e6362ffda4172704543300bdabf028d97010e5f6ab85c44d40c79ee0f93675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"15:50:05 - 16:05:56","影片長度":"00:15:51","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T15:50:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T16:05:56+08:00","duration":951,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.46284375,"end":21.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.816593750000003,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.31846875,"end":26.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.49096875,"end":27.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.85784375,"end":27.891593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.502218750000004,"end":36.126593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.126593750000005,"end":36.987218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.74659375,"end":43.838468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.445968750000006,"end":46.977218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.517218750000005,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.462218750000005,"end":55.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.937843750000006,"end":56.494718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.781593750000006,"end":57.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.92909375,"end":60.94971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.47284375,"end":63.666593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.81846875,"end":66.53534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.88971875,"end":69.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.47159375000001,"end":70.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.97346875000001,"end":72.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.37409375,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.29346875,"end":83.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.39346875000001,"end":84.60846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.08096875000001,"end":88.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.04659375,"end":91.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":91.52721875,"end":93.07971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":93.75471875000001,"end":98.04096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.10846875,"end":98.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.78346875000001,"end":100.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.42034375,"end":101.71971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":102.63096875000001,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":106.63034375000001,"end":108.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.89159375000001,"end":115.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.67534375000001,"end":122.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.20159375,"end":143.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.09284375000001,"end":154.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.09534375,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.35159375,"end":166.72221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.27909375000002,"end":171.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":171.58221875,"end":174.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.21034375000002,"end":182.77034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.05721875,"end":188.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":189.11534375000002,"end":194.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":195.15659375,"end":198.76784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":198.93659375000001,"end":200.18534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":200.48909375000002,"end":204.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.47159375,"end":206.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":206.47971875000002,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.87596875000003,"end":210.22596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":210.66471875000002,"end":212.26784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":212.82471875000002,"end":213.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.95534375000003,"end":216.06471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.73159375,"end":216.55409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.55409375000002,"end":219.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.66346875000002,"end":234.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.95221875000001,"end":237.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.75784375,"end":252.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":239.75721875000002,"end":242.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.36784375000002,"end":247.38471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":247.38471875000002,"end":247.43534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.43534375000002,"end":247.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":247.97534375,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.02596875,"end":248.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.41409375,"end":248.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.44784375,"end":248.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":248.46471875,"end":248.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.97034375,"end":253.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":253.59471875000003,"end":253.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":253.64534375000002,"end":259.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":259.46721875000003,"end":261.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.96471875000003,"end":274.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":274.80659375,"end":276.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":276.56159375000004,"end":280.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.34159375,"end":307.39221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.25409375000004,"end":302.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":306.43034375,"end":314.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":312.55596875000003,"end":313.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.93971875,"end":323.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.51221875000005,"end":325.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.65534375000004,"end":337.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.09284375000004,"end":335.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.34534375000004,"end":337.48034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":337.48034375000003,"end":338.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":338.37471875,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":338.39159375,"end":347.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":347.72346875,"end":360.86909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.08846875,"end":364.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":365.62784375,"end":370.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":370.31909375000004,"end":372.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.87159375000005,"end":375.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":374.18346875000003,"end":380.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.22471875,"end":380.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":380.61284375,"end":389.03346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.71409375,"end":381.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.03346875,"end":419.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.45471875000004,"end":434.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.28159375,"end":421.46721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.62971875000005,"end":434.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.95034375,"end":434.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.96721875000003,"end":437.78534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.00096875,"end":435.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":438.59534375000004,"end":439.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.97909375,"end":443.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":443.32034375,"end":450.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":449.05784375,"end":449.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.03659375,"end":452.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.82534375,"end":452.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.65221875000003,"end":452.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.68596875000003,"end":452.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.70284375000006,"end":453.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":453.71534375000005,"end":455.18346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.54221875,"end":455.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":455.90909375,"end":456.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":457.32659375000003,"end":473.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.37471875000006,"end":483.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":483.95534375000005,"end":485.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.27159375,"end":488.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.81159375000004,"end":485.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":489.47346875000005,"end":489.84471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":490.51971875000004,"end":494.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.27034375000005,"end":494.56971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.60346875000005,"end":494.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":494.65409375,"end":497.10096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":497.10096875000005,"end":503.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.53034375000004,"end":504.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":504.32346875,"end":506.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.74534375,"end":505.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.63534375000006,"end":507.05721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.32721875000004,"end":509.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.89221875000004,"end":522.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":522.83534375,"end":553.3115937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":554.91471875,"end":565.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":566.6428437500001,"end":567.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.11096875,"end":570.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.19909375,"end":573.4265937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.9834687499999,"end":576.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.44721875,"end":577.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":577.4765937500001,"end":577.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.4934687500001,"end":577.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.52721875,"end":577.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":577.57784375,"end":577.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.6115937500001,"end":577.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.7634687500001,"end":577.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":578.1515937500001,"end":578.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":579.23159375,"end":581.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.5222187500001,"end":583.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.3490937500001,"end":586.6228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0447187500001,"end":591.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":592.5459687499999,"end":593.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":594.28409375,"end":595.1615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.68471875,"end":600.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.2665937500001,"end":599.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":600.4097187500001,"end":600.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.4265937499999,"end":600.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":601.62471875,"end":605.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":601.8103437500001,"end":603.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.40471875,"end":610.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.83846875,"end":620.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":610.90596875,"end":612.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":614.11221875,"end":614.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":614.78721875,"end":614.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":615.1584687500001,"end":615.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.2722187500001,"end":616.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":617.2509687500001,"end":617.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":619.9678437499999,"end":621.6553437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":621.6553437499999,"end":622.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.4990937499999,"end":622.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.54971875,"end":624.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.67159375,"end":656.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":657.12659375,"end":657.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.13909375,"end":659.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":660.23159375,"end":660.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":662.1384687500001,"end":663.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":663.72471875,"end":673.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":673.6809687500001,"end":677.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":677.5959687500001,"end":678.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":678.5578437500001,"end":679.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":679.90784375,"end":680.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":680.7178437500002,"end":683.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.4809687500001,"end":685.2234687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":685.7465937500001,"end":688.8684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":689.05409375,"end":691.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.19721875,"end":692.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":692.85096875,"end":694.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":694.8759687500001,"end":697.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":697.50846875,"end":699.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":699.43221875,"end":700.9509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":701.03534375,"end":706.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.07659375,"end":711.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":710.5190937500001,"end":712.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.12659375,"end":711.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.29534375,"end":716.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":715.4297187500001,"end":715.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":716.35784375,"end":717.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.4253437500001,"end":716.4422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.50971875,"end":718.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":718.6528437500001,"end":726.3984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":727.00596875,"end":727.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":728.0690937500001,"end":729.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.3134687500001,"end":740.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":741.1640937500001,"end":744.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.72471875,"end":753.5334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":753.9384687500001,"end":762.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.49409375,"end":768.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.57846875,"end":763.28721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.48471875,"end":768.50159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.50159375,"end":768.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.51846875,"end":772.5515937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":772.29846875,"end":777.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.41596875,"end":777.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.79971875,"end":783.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":777.96846875,"end":779.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.6384687500001,"end":789.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.1615937500001,"end":784.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.97159375,"end":785.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.49846875,"end":788.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":789.1397187500002,"end":789.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.13534375,"end":790.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":790.60784375,"end":790.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":790.99596875,"end":791.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":791.01284375,"end":793.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":793.3584687500002,"end":793.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":795.09659375,"end":797.5434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":797.9822187500001,"end":820.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.10096875,"end":822.3328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":821.77596875,"end":831.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.45034375,"end":826.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.3615937500001,"end":827.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":831.64784375,"end":832.5928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":832.6772187500001,"end":834.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":834.2803437500002,"end":835.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":835.6303437500001,"end":835.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":836.69346875,"end":838.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":839.79846875,"end":841.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":842.19471875,"end":844.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":843.1397187500002,"end":855.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":854.42909375,"end":857.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":857.97284375,"end":880.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":858.7153437500001,"end":859.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.7878437500001,"end":887.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":888.19596875,"end":888.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":888.8203437500001,"end":891.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":890.60909375,"end":893.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":893.66346875,"end":915.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":915.43221875,"end":923.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":922.2834687500001,"end":934.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":925.03409375,"end":925.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":934.5009687500001,"end":935.8003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":936.2390937500002,"end":938.6353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.83784375,"end":940.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":944.87909375,"end":945.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":946.66784375,"end":950.9709687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":18.489,"end":45.077,"text":"主席也是我們的副院長還有卓院長還有行政院的團隊是不是請卓院長請卓院長備詢林委員好卓院長你好因應國際形勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別預算整個總額高達5500億元"},{"start":48.552,"end":73.569,"text":"本來該特別預算主要因應就是美國總統川普的關稅戰而起但是行政院預算內容預算的整個內容裡面包山包海當行政院不斷以特別之名來行日常之時一般民眾已看不出和年度預算有什麼兩樣"},{"start":75.393,"end":103.616,"text":"那不少學者也警告濫用特別預算將使整個年度預算審查變成空洞化造成整個國家資源的挫折這是蔡英文時代以前瞻預算來要挾這個地方和國會的一個老伎倆那譬如此次國防部爭取特別預算針對"},{"start":106.687,"end":134.127,"text":"就是彈藥庫儲的設施還有精品保修工廠庫儲的設施這些相關改善立法院預算中心這個也質疑必須使用特別預算嗎有這樣的迫切性嗎本來國防部應該在年度預算裡面來編列那況且現在馬上就在就要省年度的預算"},{"start":136.388,"end":142.131,"text":"這個在年度預算裡面編列來改善現在卻挪到特別預算來搭便車"},{"start":144.161,"end":166.203,"text":"本席是不希望也不樂見行政院得不到想要的預算資源就製作圖卡釋出具有殺傷力這些消息來結合這些側翼打擊審查特別預算的這些委員那本席也呼籲卓院長你應該公開承諾"},{"start":167.684,"end":187.714,"text":"參考立法院預算中心以及審計部的意見不要讓特別預算變成常態化逐年來減少使用特別預算的比重限縮特別預算適用的範圍回歸常態的預算編列這樣的機制 院長你的看法"},{"start":189.361,"end":203.917,"text":"報告委員我們當然希望能夠透過年度預算來表現出整個政府施政的重點跟方向但委員剛剛有提到前瞻基礎建設的這個特別預算我想到今天為止很多的委員包括地方的民意代表地方的各級政府"},{"start":204.517,"end":232.447,"text":"都覺得前瞻基礎建設對地方有很大的注意很多的委員有爭取過只要預算編的合理執行的合理都應該是對於 但是你變成一個常態化啊對不對所以我們我剛剛我早上有說 年度預算應該要編他就列了很多的項目但是他如果 所謂前瞻跟這個對這邊的預算你應該是你要是說特別預算針對要是有災害發生我相信"},{"start":233.868,"end":254.581,"text":"不要符合預算法的特別預算但是你們現在就是有一點變成巧立名目而且很多的不應該編載這次的預算裡面巧立名目來包山包海的納進去所以說剛剛有很多的委員他們也是有提出這樣的看法跟委員報告以115年為例作業為止會是編列在廣播的部分是1990億"},{"start":262.242,"end":289.43,"text":"就這個部分它要優先維持裝備的妥善所以資源的配置上來看的話只能夠維持設置的堪用所以預算中心的報告我們有看但是要請委員能夠了解的就是說如果你以我們要整間彈藥庫庫值的設置來看的話這些彈藥庫民國90年以前完成現在都老舊了如果你以作業維持會近三年的比例來看的話每年大概只能夠便宜一億多"},{"start":290.27,"end":312.611,"text":"這個只能夠維持基本的庫儲設施的修繕但是沒有辦法來因應我們現在要籌購的大量的新式武器要入庫 然後彈藥要囤儲的需求所以我們一次性的在兩年內把它做一個大量的整建之後你不能編在今年的正常預算裡面嗎為什麼一定要編在這一次裡面讓人家感覺"},{"start":313.291,"end":334.927,"text":"就是有這種感覺啊如果我們把它編在這個今年年度預算裡面的話我們的裝備的頭上的這個部分就幾乎沒有辦法能夠維持到那所以我們庫儲的這個所以說你就巧立名目來把它納在這次裡面庫儲設施的這個部分我們快速的集中資源在短時間裡面在兩年我們就能夠把它強化這個存在已經很久的時間這個就能夠強化我們的戰備的一個力量"},{"start":338.77,"end":364.25,"text":"這個存在已經很久的時間為什麼一定要在這一次納進來你為什麼不能先前你像這個有變正常預算的時候你納進去對不對你不要講讓人家感覺就是包山包海所以說我們立法院預算中心啊才特別的針對這一點來質疑甚至於審計室審計部他們也有這樣的看法我認為說你們該改則改主委長你認為該不該改"},{"start":365.646,"end":378.683,"text":"我認為我們每一筆預算包括這次的強化韌性的特別條例跟特別預算都有它跟編制的根據剛剛部長也說過了它急迫性需要在短時間內把這些庫儲設備給它完成起來"},{"start":380.786,"end":401.088,"text":"如果是在年度預算他一定排擠到目前他現在國防預算裡面相關的設備訓練等等的預算跟委員報告我想任何的作戰要靠後勤假設我們籌貨大量的武器裝備到了我們事實上沒有足夠的後勤來支撐的話這個武器裝備的維持是很困難的"},{"start":401.568,"end":418.92,"text":"所以我們庫儲設施先要迅速的來整建那我們這一次提就是只是說在兩年的時間之內我們大量的來整建這些相關的庫儲的設施跟這些訓場讓我們的後備戰力一無一的訓練讓我們的這些新式彈藥的武器能夠有一個"},{"start":420.921,"end":437.353,"text":"囤儲的一個地點這個部分的話有它的一個急迫性存在那如果你一年一年編那這樣的話我們可能要搞個十幾年可是我們沒有辦法等待這樣子的一個慢慢的來做所以我們希望能夠快速的提升我們的能力我就再進一步請教 顧部長"},{"start":438.666,"end":456.367,"text":"那你像那個我們現在還有多少錢這個預算在美國武器沒有來已經那麼久了多少錢你告訴全國全國的民眾跟委員報告我想這一個所有武器還沒來"},{"start":457.392,"end":482.727,"text":"所有的現在相關的這些不管是我們一般的軍購的程序或者是用特別條例所一般的這樣子的一個軍購他確實是有一些武器是遲延的但我們現在都盡力的在跟美方協作你不要講現在我是要求說有多少錢還在美國武器沒有來時間已經拖拉那麼長了你告訴全國的民眾"},{"start":484.442,"end":508.414,"text":"這個一定要清清楚楚啊這個沒有什麼好隱瞞的啊對不對這個再把詳細資料跟委員做報告啦不是認為喔 牽扯到很多事情不要刻意去隱瞞啦不是隱瞞 這牽扯到雙方之間還有一些目前契約在存在的過程當中我們也期待趕快來實現錢給好久 武器別來對不對 大家信誓渡命來 那個"},{"start":509.975,"end":536.796,"text":"那個美國商務部說美國不能再過度來依賴台灣半導體必須推動這個美台的晶片產能那五五分案 五五分的這種方案成就美國版的一個戲盾美國已經把話講白美國對台積電的要求已經不只是投資美國的廠甚至要將一半以上的產能移往美國"},{"start":538.618,"end":565.514,"text":"台灣半導體整個產業鏈勢必要跟著台積電一起去美國過去幾個月許多政府官員包括民進黨人士一再駁斥台積電不會變成美積電本席也希望政府堅守立場不能同意如此離譜的條件讓企業跟流台灣避免台灣的半導體產業被美國給掏空"},{"start":567.004,"end":591.409,"text":"剛剛那個龔部長你講的我都聽過我也瞭解但是啊現在最嚴重就是他要求你把那些整個產業鏈移過去對不對那你要跟著去台灣就是掏空了啊不會啦 巴委員我剛才提到過就是說即便他1635億真的完成那個也要好幾年才完成他是六個廠"},{"start":592.768,"end":622.078,"text":"六個晶圓廠我們單單剛剛公布的中科就會有四個廠那個我剛剛都有聽過 部長最重要 把握當下所以我們量遠遠超過美國而且技術也是最先進 會在台灣不要美國 講一句話我們什麼都配合啦沒有這樣的事 這就是這樣的想法我們政府院長就明確的提這個不可能答應我是希望說該堅持要堅持啦"},{"start":626.772,"end":639.676,"text":"經濟部前部長郭志輝6月10日說他對台灣談判的結果有高度信心不至於談出比日本南韓更差的關稅結果到了8月 豬羊變色"},{"start":640.916,"end":654.864,"text":"除了原本的關稅外台灣還要再疊加20%的關稅美國總統川普9月簽下行政命令確定日本商品試用15%跟韓國不疊加對等關稅的特例"},{"start":662.199,"end":672.832,"text":"那我請問卓院長以經濟部對美國關稅談判目標是我為之已經取得以日本韓國同樣的這些關稅的條件我們有嗎"},{"start":673.995,"end":697.743,"text":"報告委員8月7號所暫時實施的台灣跟美國的對等關稅我們是在最惠國待遇上面再加上20%的關稅但是美方也談到將來只要談判最後協定達成的時候這都可以再發生任何的變化我們要爭取的就是把這個對等關稅再合理的往下降同時不要再疊加最惠國的待遇同時對232的"},{"start":699.943,"end":726.112,"text":"這種優惠以及我們整個供應鏈的合作方式我們盡量把它爭取到對我國最有利的這個方向來我希望那個左院長該堅持還是要堅持我們會很堅持國家利益產業利益你要是不堅持的話 國人都看在眼裡因為那些產業界 他們沒有辦法生存啦對不對 大家心知肚明對不對 你換了 美國換了川普總統難道我們那些原來的產業全部都要收掉嗎 對不對"},{"start":728.832,"end":737.16,"text":"該堅持還是要堅持如果對美關稅談判最終的結果比主要競爭對手關稅來得多等於是讓國內這些廠商的起跑點"},{"start":741.203,"end":745.186,"text":"我們現在是用你升級轉型或者是金融上的支持或者是你要拓銷多元市場那全部都有一些補助"},{"start":761.86,"end":788.442,"text":"有補助他們可以撐嗎那為什麼有補助他們很多要失業他們沒辦法繼續生存我們現在很多的收的案件已經超過一千件不是件的問題啦當下就是那些人就失業啦沒有辦法生存啊老闆根本沒辦法營運啊那個無薪不是叫無薪假這個減班休息是有增加一點但是失業是沒有明顯增加"},{"start":791.07,"end":791.432,"text":"譬如說機械設備"},{"start":795.391,"end":816.395,"text":"製造業受到美國關稅影響由產業工會同業工會提出一些影響的數據只要每賣多少產品我們就補助他一些這個關稅的一些差額那這個根據出口時機來這個核銷補助減少美國關稅負面的因素以維護這些產業的競爭力以確保勞工的生計"},{"start":823.396,"end":838.8,"text":"我們是支持產業啦我們通常不講補貼啦我們是支持產業那現在我們就是我們兩院趕快來合作把這個特別預算通過了讓經濟部 農業部所有的部會我們所有的力道就可以一次的放下去"},{"start":840.064,"end":858.289,"text":"滿身的設備就可以一直用到我是希望能夠把它解決掉啦不要說這個讓他們沒有辦法生存然後那些要變成到最後事業多要裁員等等造成很多社會問題現在失業率沒有明顯的提升還是持平"},{"start":858.749,"end":887.151,"text":"另外我再請教民眾也很關心普發現金何時能夠發放日前有一些領退休金奉的這些退伍老兵向本席反映希望請退伍費在今年普發一萬元的時候可以直接入帳到他退伍老兵領退休奉的郵局帳戶中那財政部在此次普發現金對象與方式是不是要跟一二年有不同嗎"},{"start":888.22,"end":916.85,"text":"有沒有對象沒有不同沒有不同那我剛剛講的可不可以您剛剛講那個其實我們之前已經研究過因為有所謂的直接入帳就直接進到他的帳戶但是這個資料要非常的完整跟正確才可以那至於這有關退休過去有所謂的退休軍公教的同仁們也反映希望能夠直接入帳但是那個退休金他的方式有各種不同所以沒有辦法完全對上要他簽個欠缺書好了啦"},{"start":917.29,"end":936.662,"text":"對不對 你只要簽結結書進到帳戶有就沒有再花了嘛如果簽結結書的話他就可以到網站去登記或去ATM或去郵局也可以領我們郵局有1294個支局都可以去領其實領的方式有非常多 都很方便我是認為啦 比較簡潔一點讓這些人他們不要好"},{"start":946.789,"end":947.453,"text":"好,我們時間到,謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":515,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（15時50分）主席，也是我們的副院長，還有卓院長及行政院的團隊。請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員德福：卓院長，你好。因應國際形勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別預算整個總額高達5,500億元，本來該特別預算主要就是因應美國總統川普的關稅戰而起，但是行政院預算的整個內容裡面包山包海，當行政院不斷以特別之名行日常之實，一般民眾已看不出和年度預算有什麼兩樣。不少學者也警告，濫用特別預算將使年度預算審查變成空洞化，造成整個國家資源的錯置，這是蔡英文時代以前瞻預算來要脅地方和國會的一個老伎倆。譬如此次國防部爭取特別預算，是針對彈藥庫儲設施還有軍品保修工廠庫儲設施進行相關改善，立法院預算中心也質疑這個必須使用特別預算嗎？有這樣的迫切性嗎？本來國防部就應該在年度預算裡面編列，況且馬上就要審年度預算，這個應該在年度預算裡面編列來改善，現在卻挪到特別預算搭便車。","本席不希望也不樂見行政院得不到想要的預算資源就製作圖卡，釋出這些具有殺傷力的消息，結合側翼打擊審查特別預算的這些委員。本席呼籲卓院長應該公開承諾參考立法院預算中心以及審計部的意見，不要讓特別預算變成常態化，逐年減少使用特別預算的比重，限縮特別預算適用的範圍，回歸常態的預算編列。對於這樣的機制，院長的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然希望能夠透過年度預算表現出整個政府施政的重點跟方向，但委員剛剛有提到前瞻基礎建設的特別預算，我想到今天為止，很多委員包括地方的民意代表、地方的各級政府，都覺得前瞻基礎建設對地方有很大的助益，很多委員有爭取過，只要預算編得合理、執行得合理，都應該是福國利民……"],["林委員德福：但是變成常態化，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我早上有說……"],["林委員德福：年度預算應該要編，他就列了很多的項目，所謂前瞻跟這次編的預算，特別預算應該針對要是有災害發生，我相信該花……對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：只要符合預算法的特別預算都有它的依據。"],["林委員德福：但是你們現在有一點變成巧立名目……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會！請部長說明剛剛委員的提問。"],["林委員德福：而且很多不應該編在這次的預算裡面，卻巧立名目來包山包海的納進去，剛剛有很多的委員也有提出這樣的看法。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長都有說明，來，繼續。"],["顧部長立雄：以115年為例，作業維持費編列在國防部的部分是1,990億，就這個部分是要優先維持裝備的妥善，以資源的配置上來看，只能夠維持設施的堪用。預算中心的這個報告我們有看，但要請委員能夠了解的是，如果以我們要整建彈藥庫庫儲的設施來看，這些彈藥庫是民國90年以前完成的，現在都已經老舊。如果以作業維持費近3年的比例來看，每年大概只能夠編一億多，這個只能夠維持基本庫儲設施的修繕，但是沒有辦法來因應我們現在要籌獲的大量新式武器要入庫及彈藥要囤儲這樣的需求……"],["林委員德福：那你不能編在正常的……"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們一次性的在兩年內把它做一個大量的整建之後，能夠快速……"],["林委員德福：那你不能編在今年的正常預算裡面嗎？為什麼一定要編在這一次裡面？讓人家就是有這種感覺啊！"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，如果我們把它編在今年的年度預算裡面的話，有關裝備妥善的部分就幾乎沒有辦法能夠維持到，所以我們庫儲的……"],["林委員德福：所以你就巧立名目來把它納在這一次裡面？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有，有關庫儲設施這個部分，我們快速的集中資源，在短時間裡面，在兩年內我們就能夠把它強化。"],["林委員德福：這個存在已經很久的時間。"],["顧部長立雄：這個就能夠構成我們一個戰備的力量。"],["林委員德福：部長，這個存在已經很久的時間，為什麼一定要在這一次納進來？為什麼不能像先前有編正常預算的時候納進去，對不對？你不要讓人家感覺就是包山包海，所以我們立法院預算中心才特別針對這一點質疑，甚至於審計部他們也有這樣的看法，我認為你們該改則改。卓院長，你認為該不該改？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為每一筆預算，包括這一次的強化韌性特別條例跟特別預算都有它編制的根據。"],["林委員德福：有，但是不應該在這個裡面，應該在正常的預算裡面。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長也說過了，急迫性需要在短時間內把這些庫儲設備完成起來。如果是在年度預算，它一定排擠到目前國防預算裡面相關的設備、訓練等等預算。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想任何的作戰要靠後勤，假設我們籌獲的大量武器裝備到了，但事實上沒有足夠的後勤來支撐的話，相關武器裝備的維持是很困難的，所以我們的庫儲設施先要迅速地整建。我們這一次提就只是說在兩年的時間之內，我們大量地整建這些相關的庫儲設施跟這些訓場，讓我們的後備戰力、義務役的訓練及我們這些新式彈藥的武器能夠有一個囤儲的地點。這個部分有它的急迫性存在，如果你一年、一年編，這樣的話，可能要搞個十幾年，可是我們沒有辦法這樣子等待慢慢做，所以我們希望能夠快速地提升能力。"],["林委員德福：我就再進一步請教顧部長，我們現在還有多少錢的預算在美國，但武器沒有來？已經那麼久了，多少錢？你告訴全國的民眾，多少錢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想所有的……"],["林委員德福：錢給了，武器還沒來。"],["顧部長立雄：所有現在相關的這些，不管是我們一般軍購的程序，或者是用特別條例的軍購，它確實有一些武器是遲延的，但我們現在都盡力地在跟美方協作。"],["林委員德福：你不要講現在，我是要求，有多少錢還在美國，但武器沒有來？時間都已經拖到那麼長了，你告訴全國的民眾嘛！"],["顧部長立雄：我想我現在……"],["林委員德福：這個一定要清清楚楚，沒有什麼好隱瞞的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：再把詳細資料跟委員做報告，因為牽扯到……"],["林委員德福：很多事情我認為不要刻意去隱瞞。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是隱瞞，這牽扯到雙方之間目前還有一些契約存在的過程當中，我們也期待趕快來實現。"],["林委員德福：錢給好久，武器沒來，對不對？大家心知肚明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望趕快實現。"],["林委員德福：美國商務部說，美國不能再過度依賴臺灣半導體，必須要推動美臺晶片產能五五分這種方案，成就美國版的矽盾。美國已經把話講白，美國對台積電的要求已經不只是投資美國的廠，甚至於要將一半以上的產能移往美國，臺灣半導體整個產業鏈勢必要跟著台積電一起去美國。過去幾個月，許多政府官員包括民進黨人士一再駁斥：台積電不會變成美積電。本席也希望政府堅守立場，不能同意如此離譜的條件，讓企業根留臺灣，避免臺灣的半導體產業被美國給掏空。剛剛龔部長你講的我都聽過，我也了解，但是現在最嚴重就是它要求你把整個產業鏈移過去，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有啦！"],["林委員德福：那你要跟著去，臺灣就是掏空了啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！報告委員，我剛才提到即便1,635億真的完成，那個也要好幾年才能完成，它是六個晶圓廠，我們單單剛剛公布的中科就會有四個廠，那個是最先進……"],["林委員德福：那個我剛剛都有聽過。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，竹科跟……"],["林委員德福：部長，最重要的是把握當下。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，所以我們這個量遠遠超過美國，而且技術也是最先進的會留在臺灣，所以不會……"],["林委員德福：不要美國講一句話，我們什麼都配合啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有這樣的事，所以我們……"],["林委員德福：現在就是這樣的想法啊！對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們的鄭副院長就明確的提到這不可能啦！"],["林委員德福：我是希望該堅持的就要堅持。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["林委員德福：院長，經濟部前部長郭智輝6月時說他對臺灣談判的結果有高度的信心，不至於談出比日本、南韓更差的關稅，結果到了8月豬羊變色，除了原本的關稅外，臺灣還要再疊加20%的關稅，美國總統川普9月簽下行政命令，確定日本商品適用15%稅率以及韓國不疊加對等關稅的特例。請問卓院長，經濟部對美國關稅的談判目標，是否維持與日本、韓國已經取得同樣的關稅條件？我們有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，8月7號所暫時實施的臺灣與美國對等關稅，我們是在最惠國待遇上面再加20%的關稅，但是美方也談到，將來談判的最後協定達成時，這都可以再發生任何的變化，我們要爭取的就是把這個對等關稅再合理的往下降，不要再疊加最惠國的待遇，同時對232的這種優惠以及整個供應鏈的合作方式，我們儘量把它爭取到對我國最有利的這個方向來。"],["林委員德福：我希望卓院長該堅持的還是要堅持。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會很堅持國家利益、產業利益。"],["林委員德福：你要是不堅持的話，國人都看在眼裡，因為產業界他們沒有辦法生存，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，您放心。"],["林委員德福：大家心知肚明，美國換了川普總統，難道我們原來的那些產業全部都要收掉嗎？該堅持的還是要堅持，如果對美關稅談判最終的結果比主要競爭對手的關稅來得多，等於是讓國內這些廠商在起跑點上就輸給日本、南韓，對不對？請問經濟部跟財政部，政府是否會給予廠商對美出口關稅的差額補貼，會不會？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們現在是用升級轉型或者是金融上的支持，或者是拓銷多元市場，全部都有一些補助。"],["林委員德福：補助？他們可以撐嗎？為什麼有補助，他們還有很多要失業？他們沒有辦法繼續生存耶！"],["龔部長明鑫：我們現在收的案件已經超過一千件，我們儘快來處理。"],["林委員德福：不是件數的問題，當下那些人就是失業了，沒有辦法生存啊！老闆根本沒辦法營運啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：減班休息是有增加一點，但是失業並沒有明顯增加。"],["林委員德福：卓院長，譬如機械設備、製造業受到美國關稅影響，由產業工會、同業公會提出一些影響的數據，只要每賣多少產品，我們就補助他一些關稅差額，根據出口時機來核銷補助，減少美國關稅負面的因素，以維護這些產業的競爭力，以確保勞工的生計，請問您有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我們是支持產業，我們通常不講補貼，我們是支持產業。現在就是兩院趕快來合作，把這個特別預算通過，讓經濟部、農業部、國防部等所有部會所有的力道就可以一次放下去，滿身的設備就可以一次用到，這個我們儘快來完成就可以了。"],["林委員德福：我希望能夠把它解決掉，不要讓他們沒有辦法生存，到最後變成失業多、要裁員等等，造成很多社會問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，現在失業率沒有明顯提升，還是持平。"],["林委員德福：另外我再請教，民眾也很關心普發現金何時能夠發放，日前有一些領退休俸的退伍老兵向本席反映，希望退輔會在今年普發一萬元的時候，可以直接入帳到他退伍老兵領退休俸的郵局帳戶中。請問財政部在此次普發現金時，對象與方式與112年有不同嗎？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：對象沒有不同，會跟112年相同。"],["林委員德福：沒有不同，那我剛剛講的那個可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：您剛剛講的那個，其實我們之前已經研究過，因為有所謂的直接入帳，就是直接進到他的帳戶，但是這個資料要非常地完整跟正確才可以。至於有關退休的部分，過去退休軍公教的同仁們也反映希望能夠直接入帳，但是退休金給付的方式有各種不同，所以沒有辦法完全對上。"],["林委員德福：要他簽個切結書好了，對不對？只要簽切結書，有進到帳戶，就沒有再發了，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：如果切結書的話，他就可以到網站去登記，或者去ATM、或去郵局也可以領，我們郵局有1,294個支局都可以去領，其實領的方式有非常多，都很方便的。"],["林委員德福：我認為應該比較簡潔一點，讓這些人不要……你的手續繁雜，到最後怎麼樣不知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在就是登記入帳、直接入帳、ATM及郵局領現……"],["主席：好，時間到，謝謝……"],["卓院長榮泰：還有偏遠地區的……"],["主席：謝謝林委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請林岱樺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163809","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163809","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8900afb250bb052d643704543300bdabf02399d32d779812cf3bad02b2ffd216a645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"15:34:29 - 15:50:00","影片長度":"00:15:31","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T15:34:29+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T15:50:00+08:00","duration":931,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":13.767218750000001,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":27.06471875,"end":30.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.34284375,"end":29.410343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.410343750000003,"end":29.882843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.777218750000003,"end":40.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.391593750000006,"end":42.758468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.80909375,"end":43.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.80471875,"end":46.555343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":47.16284375,"end":47.719718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.377843750000004,"end":52.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.377218750000004,"end":55.735343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.30909375,"end":58.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.77284375000001,"end":60.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.578468750000006,"end":61.945343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":62.97471875,"end":64.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":64.51034375,"end":65.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.63659375,"end":68.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.55596875,"end":69.87659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.55159375000001,"end":72.22221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":72.69471875,"end":73.72409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.09534375,"end":74.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.64784375,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.65534375,"end":83.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.97971875,"end":86.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":86.83596875,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.08846875,"end":94.78409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.32409375,"end":96.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":97.95659375000001,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":100.42034375,"end":104.89221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.38159375000001,"end":106.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.94659375,"end":112.75596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.99221875,"end":114.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.02596875,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.74284375,"end":121.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.85159375,"end":121.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.88534375,"end":122.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.23971875000001,"end":126.40784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.50096875000001,"end":132.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.30971875,"end":134.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.58784375000002,"end":135.60471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.60471875000002,"end":138.01784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.25409375,"end":140.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.76846875,"end":143.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.85659375,"end":145.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.45971875,"end":155.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.98596875,"end":175.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.64784375000002,"end":156.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.51409375,"end":175.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.96971875,"end":176.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.22284375,"end":176.44221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.44221875000002,"end":182.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.29784375,"end":183.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.12034375000002,"end":185.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.77409375000002,"end":186.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.07346875000002,"end":188.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.81159375000001,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.58346875,"end":192.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.03034375000001,"end":193.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.62096875,"end":196.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.03409375,"end":196.28721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.86096875,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.40034375000002,"end":203.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":204.31971875000002,"end":206.10846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":206.47971875000002,"end":207.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.26846875,"end":209.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":209.66909375,"end":209.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.97284375,"end":210.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.81221875,"end":225.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.59909375,"end":227.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":227.45534375000003,"end":228.41721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.46784375000001,"end":230.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.22284375,"end":232.58534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.24346875,"end":233.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.20534375000003,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":240.55034375000002,"end":244.48221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.07284375,"end":248.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.67534375000002,"end":250.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.96221875,"end":251.14784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.31659375,"end":252.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.29534375000003,"end":253.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.72534375,"end":256.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.85159375,"end":261.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.62784375,"end":258.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.08284375,"end":269.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":269.65971875,"end":271.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.54534375000003,"end":277.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.92846875000004,"end":281.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.46784375000004,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.50159375000004,"end":283.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":283.53096875,"end":283.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.03721875,"end":284.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.91471875,"end":287.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.66534375000003,"end":291.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.05284375,"end":296.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":297.72284375000004,"end":298.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":298.87034375,"end":299.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.35534375000003,"end":302.85284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.45596875,"end":305.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.85659375,"end":312.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.85596875000005,"end":314.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.69909375000003,"end":314.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.17159375,"end":319.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.79534375000003,"end":321.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":321.33096875,"end":323.52471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.71034375,"end":324.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.43596875000003,"end":324.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":324.46971875,"end":327.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.96284375000005,"end":332.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":333.00846875,"end":335.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":335.86034375,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.30284375,"end":342.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":343.18409375000005,"end":346.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.36909375000005,"end":349.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.56284375,"end":354.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.40159375,"end":357.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":357.37596875,"end":360.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":360.27846875,"end":361.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":361.83096875,"end":364.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":365.47596875000005,"end":366.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.85971875,"end":370.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":370.70721875000004,"end":372.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.56346875,"end":375.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":375.49971875,"end":386.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":386.77221875000004,"end":389.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":389.75909375000003,"end":397.96034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":398.04471875,"end":399.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.98534375,"end":400.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":400.01909375,"end":400.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.03596875000005,"end":401.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.66034375000004,"end":405.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.19971875000005,"end":405.52034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.85784375000003,"end":408.11909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.42284375,"end":413.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.92409375000005,"end":426.15846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.42846875000004,"end":426.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.52971875000003,"end":428.30159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":429.04409375,"end":431.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.40221875000003,"end":434.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.22034375000004,"end":437.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.39284375000005,"end":443.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":444.19784375,"end":445.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.54784375,"end":453.63096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.05284375,"end":456.92159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.15784375000004,"end":460.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":459.95909375,"end":474.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":475.28159375,"end":475.31534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.31534375,"end":476.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":476.85096875000005,"end":479.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.13346875,"end":483.56721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.83721875000003,"end":486.09846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.40659375,"end":485.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.45721875000004,"end":493.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.58346875,"end":487.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.03471875,"end":489.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.52346875,"end":501.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.12534375,"end":503.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":503.91846875000005,"end":503.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.30659375000005,"end":507.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":507.79971875,"end":525.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":513.80721875,"end":514.0603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.36659375,"end":536.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":527.5603437500001,"end":527.9484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":537.43221875,"end":538.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.74409375,"end":540.8915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":541.51596875,"end":542.1572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":542.8828437500001,"end":543.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":544.46909375,"end":547.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":548.55284375,"end":549.0422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":550.1897187500001,"end":550.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":551.23596875,"end":552.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.37909375,"end":553.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":553.8515937500001,"end":554.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.7922187500001,"end":557.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.42909375,"end":557.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":557.88471875,"end":562.1372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":563.23409375,"end":563.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":564.44909375,"end":570.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":570.65909375,"end":573.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":573.7978437500001,"end":575.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":575.40096875,"end":576.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":576.4978437500001,"end":577.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.5734687500001,"end":580.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":581.88096875,"end":589.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.1328437500001,"end":592.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.44034375,"end":596.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.7309687500001,"end":601.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.31221875,"end":606.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":606.8897187499999,"end":607.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":608.64471875,"end":609.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":610.06221875,"end":610.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":611.73284375,"end":614.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":614.5678437500001,"end":615.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.10346875,"end":617.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":618.44909375,"end":619.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":619.6809687500001,"end":620.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.53721875,"end":625.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.2578437500001,"end":628.2197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":628.2703437499999,"end":628.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":629.29971875,"end":629.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":630.5990937500001,"end":632.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.6240937499999,"end":635.8303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.20159375,"end":637.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":638.2265937500001,"end":639.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":640.6059687500001,"end":642.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":642.8503437500001,"end":644.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":644.87534375,"end":646.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.6384687500001,"end":651.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":651.52409375,"end":655.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.2322187500001,"end":661.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":662.1553437500002,"end":664.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":665.31096875,"end":666.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":668.2978437500001,"end":670.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":670.76159375,"end":672.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":673.76534375,"end":675.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":676.95471875,"end":677.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.10221875,"end":678.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.91221875,"end":682.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":683.6372187500001,"end":685.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":686.2022187500002,"end":687.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":687.51846875,"end":689.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":690.6740937500001,"end":691.2309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":691.58534375,"end":693.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.94346875,"end":696.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":697.32284375,"end":700.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":700.9678437500002,"end":705.1697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":706.24971875,"end":707.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.7978437500001,"end":710.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.8015937499999,"end":713.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":713.9109687499999,"end":714.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.34096875,"end":720.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.28534375,"end":724.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":725.4028437500001,"end":726.8034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":728.8959687500001,"end":732.2878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":733.08096875,"end":734.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":734.78534375,"end":736.6415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.9284687500001,"end":738.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.0209687500001,"end":739.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":739.9153437500001,"end":743.9990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":744.85971875,"end":745.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.17596875,"end":748.84221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":749.09534375,"end":749.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":750.51284375,"end":751.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":752.62221875,"end":755.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":755.54159375,"end":761.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":762.46034375,"end":762.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":763.2534687500001,"end":765.44721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":766.3584687500002,"end":767.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":768.8390937500001,"end":770.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":770.6615937500001,"end":771.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":772.16346875,"end":772.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":773.1928437500001,"end":774.3572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.26409375,"end":785.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.3484687499999,"end":776.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":784.38096875,"end":785.64659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.68034375,"end":794.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":786.5747187500001,"end":786.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.11784375,"end":807.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":805.93034375,"end":807.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.43221875,"end":807.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.48284375,"end":807.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.90471875,"end":809.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.92159375,"end":808.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":808.9172187500001,"end":809.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":809.98034375,"end":814.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":810.11534375,"end":810.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.9922187500001,"end":815.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.07659375,"end":815.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.2453437500001,"end":815.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.31284375,"end":815.5659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.5659687500001,"end":818.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.12659375,"end":821.4890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.7590937500001,"end":832.1709687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.5984687500002,"end":823.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":823.64909375,"end":824.2903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":830.7703437500002,"end":834.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":833.90909375,"end":845.1140937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":845.18159375,"end":846.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":846.02534375,"end":847.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":848.3372187500001,"end":853.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.1128437500001,"end":853.2140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":853.2140937500001,"end":855.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":853.83846875,"end":853.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":855.3403437500001,"end":857.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":858.34409375,"end":862.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.5459687500002,"end":862.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":862.56284375,"end":869.9878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.6640937500001,"end":863.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":868.04721875,"end":868.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":870.07221875,"end":871.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.47721875,"end":871.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":872.40096875,"end":881.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":881.6315937500001,"end":882.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.57659375,"end":884.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":885.20909375,"end":888.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":888.5165937500001,"end":889.6303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":892.12784375,"end":904.1259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":905.07096875,"end":908.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.46284375,"end":909.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":910.70721875,"end":911.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":912.47909375,"end":913.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":914.58846875,"end":916.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":916.7822187500001,"end":917.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":917.9465937500001,"end":920.7309687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":921.65909375,"end":923.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.9709687500001,"end":924.4097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":924.17346875,"end":924.7978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":924.7978437500001,"end":924.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":924.89909375,"end":924.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":924.9497187500001,"end":924.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":924.9665937500001,"end":925.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":925.01721875,"end":926.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":926.97471875,"end":927.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.31221875,"end":927.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":927.3290937500001,"end":930.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.5990937500001,"end":927.68346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.851,"end":42.884,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢邱委員好卓院長你辛苦了站了一整天不會謝謝你對國家付出那麼多的努力跟奉獻特別這一陣子面臨到國際情勢的變化還有國內的這些災情行政團隊全力以赴"},{"start":44.117,"end":68.486,"text":"先對行政團隊表示肯定感謝現在還沒進行關稅第五輪談判美方提出他的offer 提出他的訴求他訴求 我想他不是個人意見不是商務部長尼克的個人意見誤差人對分 一定是美國政府的立場對我們而言 這是一個很大的挑戰所以"},{"start":70.612,"end":96.241,"text":"日軍副院長必須去美國提出我們的offer G to G用政府協助用民間企業去佈局我們提供財政協助希望美國提供土地水電然後我們把這個竹科的經驗能夠複製到美國但美國不是完全沒有配合美國要配合土地水電我們用我們的經驗"},{"start":98.001,"end":102.249,"text":"所以這種我想居土區的方式這並不是供應鏈產業的轉移這是供應鏈的擴大"},{"start":108.758,"end":134.646,"text":"我想我這樣陳述代表行政團隊的立場我這樣陳述應該是正確的我比較認為他應該不叫一個園區而是一個服務園區服務我們的廠商去做一些工作真的未來要成立一個大的園區廠商要自述過去我們提供所謂財政協助或者行政資源美方也要配合這種情況之下居土區的方式美國能不能接受呢"},{"start":135.923,"end":151.035,"text":"這個就是我們要善用到現在我們發展這麼多年的科學研究的經驗當世界各國尤其美方希望來學習複製的時候我們可以提供給他的是什麼程度但是剛剛部長也講了我們維持國家的產業的領導的關鍵地位"},{"start":154.017,"end":172.63,"text":"一定要跟著台灣我們的核心技術一定要跟著台灣這種情況之下我們有別於日本模式跟韓國模式日本是擴大投資日本好像是5500億 南韓是3500億我們是台灣模式台灣模式複製我們成功的協助在建築產業園區我們廠商也過去 美國也配合"},{"start":175.952,"end":195.697,"text":"這種是好的模式像外國的模式是財政上一筆錢這樣的投資的方式那我們是廠商去設廠的一種方式這對我們來講是廠商剛剛您說延伸或者是全球布局的一種但是他在那邊的生產跟國內的生產當然國內的這個領先的地位我們會維持住我們over這些"},{"start":196.917,"end":210.097,"text":"目標就是說我們232條款能夠得到更好的條件然後疊加稅率不要再疊加或者原額關稅可以再降低這是我們努力的目標你有沒有信心達到這個目標"},{"start":211.837,"end":238.998,"text":"我覺得以我們國家現在的科技發展實力以及我們跟美方之間未來透過更正常的一些採購方面來看我們可以就我們雙方的貿易平衡做很多的努力這個我們也在做如果這樣的話我們有在做貿易平衡的努力我們有我們產業上的優勢我們應該可以得到更合理的待遇接下來就是說這個月底11月初在APEC在韓國慶周"},{"start":240.595,"end":252.939,"text":"當然川普是在上第二個任期第一次在亞洲所以我們的這個領袖代表已經決定了嗎是不是跟半導體有關係"},{"start":255.035,"end":281.472,"text":"這個是釜放在作業一定要先跟APEC主辦方去有一些默契我期待是有半導體方面的領導者或者在全球有聲望的半導體高層或者有威望的半導體權威人士因為很難的機會可以跟各國領袖特別是川普能夠當面的做一些建議或者做一些會談也有可能"},{"start":282.96,"end":305.131,"text":"所以人選已經決定了委員這樣的建議 府方一定會非常重視我現在應該是從半導體來切入一個有國際聲望領袖級的半導體的權威人士代表台灣的領袖的會議這個應該APEC主辦方應該會接受吧我們提出的"},{"start":306.472,"end":334.86,"text":"適當的人選我們都會經過正常的管道來表達我們參與這個的意願跟他的公安心這個月底應該就會確定了好 那另外提到這個整個產業的因應我想這個國務長您9月3號也去跟我們這個岡山 岡山是六四困啦六四困現在面臨最嚴峻的挑戰就是說全球六大洲市場現在只有北美市場不是北美市場全部加拿大也沒有了 墨西哥也沒有了"},{"start":335.945,"end":354.281,"text":"其他州也沒有 因為中國的銷價競爭嘛中國的這個扣件都比我們這個便宜三成到四成所以我們只有美國的 轟入美國市場因為美國沒有市場所以我們美國的市場很重要你看什麼協助金屬扣件大型的 我覺得他有因應中小型的"},{"start":355.441,"end":370.194,"text":"你們怎麼讓他能夠繼續來保持一定的經營能力一定的競爭力幾項的建議我想包括人力 勞動力不足包括他們的下屆巔峰的電力成本"},{"start":370.894,"end":382.479,"text":"是不是有可能去考量這些都是當場給您有提出建議也包括檢討或廢除5%的未分配盈餘加深因索稅制部分以減輕他們所謂的企業資金的壓力"},{"start":386.801,"end":404.764,"text":"另外也希望央行跟財政部啊經管會能設出更多的資金來協助這個相關的這個中小型的這個擴建業者取得資金這是當天的會議的結論吧那我覺得這部分不曉得這個經濟部有沒有相關的看法"},{"start":405.945,"end":434.292,"text":"報告委員像金融支持的部分我們一再的強調就是雨天一定不收傘甚至於還要撐大更大的傘所以在新的貸款部分我們還提供信保的部分而且在額度以下是10成10的保證而且利息呢事實上是有減免的來協助企業如果他需要資金的話我的感受他們告訴我啊這個他們並沒有特別有感覺啦這個都是現在已經正在做的"},{"start":435.27,"end":443.387,"text":"特別情形 特別時期有特別的做法讓這些中小型產業能夠維持生存 維持競爭力讓他們有感很重要"},{"start":444.324,"end":465.356,"text":"是我們跟公股航庫也好甚至於金管會還有銀行公衛都一再的講說雨天不能收產也就是說旧貸一定可以展延是沒有條件是繳息要正常而且可以展延半年然後利息還可以做一些節目9月3號你跟這些螺絲葉子做過座談到這邊一個月了對不對"},{"start":466.036,"end":479.39,"text":"一個月他們所提出的事項你要很具體的答覆這些擴建業者讓他們了解我們政府有在做事有在協助產業發展這部分還沒有得到經濟部的相關訊息我們輔導團馬上組好就要下去了"},{"start":484.495,"end":501.473,"text":"全台灣會在扣件是全台灣全球排名前三名的這個而且扣件都是很多的產業都需要扣件但是我們很希望說這個特別預算可以趕快通過我們才有辦法擴大實施要不然我們現在只能用以晚計期的方式以晚計期"},{"start":503.294,"end":524.214,"text":"規模有限預算當然會過但是你要怎麼用對地方提供他們有感的政策有感的協助這點很重要再請國務部長再去深思另外有關於內政部跟國防部就是說內政部也編列加強反恐維安能量的這些以及關鍵基礎設施的防護效能"},{"start":525.595,"end":552.183,"text":"竟然編了34億國防部也針對基礎設施關鍵的這些設施國外能量大概也編了大概428億特別提到國境 國門我們出入境要維護國人旅搭機安全 旅客安全第一個 院長安檢是不是很重要"},{"start":554.024,"end":581.046,"text":"行李的安檢第一個要充足人力第二個要有先進的設備要有專業的人員行警我常常從不管是從雄山桃園或者是小港我出境的時候發現一個問題人力非常非常不夠一個安檢線兩名同仁因為是行警同仁他要看monitor"},{"start":581.926,"end":610.532,"text":"我們現在的行李輸送袋你的行李要放在那個要進去那個X光機他是用人工拿那個環子去只有一個保全公司人員一條安全線一個保全公司人員他還要拿行李然後還要告訴你說衣服要脫然後帽子要脫那個口袋要拿出來iPad要拿出來兩個人然後另外一個行情局還要專心看這個monitor看有沒有違禁品查到違禁品誰去看"},{"start":612.266,"end":625.096,"text":"應當是有中巡力執法人員去看應該是行警局 行警人力去看看的是誰 是保全公司保全公司有這專業就發現這個違禁品到底是不是可以登記嗎"},{"start":627.304,"end":654.814,"text":"追根就離啊 就是第一個我們花那麼多的錢包括這個農業部那個安檢不是安檢就是朱溫一年編了這個2億然後我們要協助行警能力的部分一年編了11億這些我們可以為什麼不招募更多的這個我們行警能力補充行警能力有專業去執勤"},{"start":656.297,"end":685.212,"text":"而不是這些保全公司保全公司一年一聘他專業怎麼去執行說每天搭飛機我每次搭飛機我都提心吊膽一條線竟然只有兩位而且你心裡有問題是保全公司能去看這樣國人搭機怎麼會安心呢所以我想請部長一定要請院長一定要支持行警能力部署現任的造局長 行警造局長"},{"start":686.463,"end":714.674,"text":"剛到了一個月我立即跟他反映還有立即去改善最最重要的問題人力不足然後你這個保全公司一年一聘花了12億為什麼你不用設備更新呢你又自動的這個轉盤輸送帶空間不是不夠我覺得台灣的安檢整體的品質在國際上是倒數"},{"start":716.397,"end":743.817,"text":"人力也好 專業也好我們用那麼多的這個所謂S光機然後那麼多的這個人身的安安檢設備很少有使用一台要440萬總共買了21台有沒有人力去執行比如說你要經過S光機你要手機舉起來你要經過這個安檢或者它逼的時候你要用那個掃描器看一下"},{"start":745.052,"end":774.077,"text":"這個很少執行因為什麼 因為沒有能力空有設備 沒有能力這國際安全我非常憂慮 主要是能力不夠這能力不夠我想這個劉部長也了解也跟行政院反映過但是能力補充一直沒有辦法到位同樣非洲豬瘟只有台灣跟日本是非豬瘟國對不對日本有聘用每年用兩億去做一個安檢設施嗎"},{"start":776.434,"end":801.575,"text":"我跟委員報告 因為日本我們在機場會比較加強檢疫就是最主要我們國內養豬還有廚餘的養豬系統我瞭解 你要嘛 你就全面做不要只有桃園機場做 桃園機場你是外聘的然後小港機場你是用海關去卡這個牽涉到場地 我也跟委員報告您剛才講人力的部分那特別行政特別是院長也有支持在檢疫的人員的部分"},{"start":802.276,"end":823.312,"text":"那行政院人事總署那邊已經有多合配的一些人為了應用第三期的部分而且你那個看那個檢驗人員要專業那也是保全公司在看後續我們保全我們正職的人員我們會做調整公權力的行使不能用民間的保全業者市委員 行警人員的問題我再請劉部長能夠確實的去了解"},{"start":823.672,"end":845.618,"text":"如果真的是行警人員不足這個保全的專業不足還有就是各種安檢的這個品質也不足的話我會發現年紀差距也蠻大的我看也有四五十歲也有二三十幾歲明年我們把發展觀光列為擴大內需重要的一環那既然這樣我們希望更多人進來流程要快也希望安檢的檢查要能夠徹底這個我們來檢討我寧願慢一點"},{"start":848.699,"end":871.191,"text":"檢查仔細 精確一點 安全一點我們搭機才會安心嘛我們來檢討整個流程我離遠慢一點你根本就是如果留意形勢的話那這樣子對旅客這個飛行安全旅行安全是非常非常大的威脅我們會同時並進我們希望外國的旅客多來我也希望在程序上能夠讓他們覺得說台灣是一個親近的國家因為根據你就是人力不夠人力不夠你就來辦事"},{"start":872.472,"end":889.152,"text":"然後這個設備你要更新不要還是用到這個二次世界大戰以後的那個行李行李轉盤還用人力去搬啊你那個放行李那個S光機的轉盤那個看慕林的行警人員有時候還要去幫忙拿盤子"},{"start":892.145,"end":919.226,"text":"日本是在前面就用一個音箱廣播請你用日文 英文還有中文 韓文它廣播你什麼東西要拿出來什麼東西拿出來這個我們都可以學習嘛最起碼你行李輸送帶要讓它現代化一點它可以自動輸送嘛這不是沒有預算嗎是國境的安全這也是非常重要好 謝謝委員這個提醒我們來檢討這個過程"},{"start":921.761,"end":926.168,"text":"每次質詢時間都過得很快好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝院長 謝謝部長謝謝邱委員 謝謝卓院長"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（15時34分）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：卓院長，你辛苦了！站了一整天。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會、不會。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝你對國家付出那麼多的努力和奉獻，特別這一陣子面臨到國際情勢的變化，還有國內的這些災情，行政團隊全力以赴，先對行政團隊表示肯定和感謝！","現在臺美進行關稅第五輪談判，美方當然提出他的訴求，他的訴求我想不是個人意見，不是商務部長Lutnick的個人意見，產能五五對分一定是美國政府的立場，但是對我們而言，這是一個很大的挑戰，所以鄭麗君副院長必須去美國，提出我們的offer……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：G2G，用政府協助，用民間企業去布局，我們提供財政協助，希望美國提供土地、水電，然後我們把竹科的經驗能夠複製到美國，但美國不是完全沒有配合，美國要配合土地、水電，我們用我們的經驗，所以我想這種G2G的方式並不是供應鏈產業的轉移，這是供應鏈的擴大，就行政團隊的立場，我這樣陳述應該是正確的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我比較認為他應該不叫一個園區，而是一個服務園區，服務我們的廠商去做一些工作，真的未來要成立一個大的園區，還要相當的努力……"],["邱委員志偉：廠商要自主過去，我們提供所謂財政協助或者行政資源……"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是、是。"],["邱委員志偉：美方也要配合……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：在這種情況之下，這個G2G的方式，美國能不能接受呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個就是我們要善用現在發展這麼多年科學園區的經驗，當世界各國，尤其美方，希望來學習、複製的時候，我們可以提供給他的是什麼程度，但是剛剛部長也講了，我們維持國家產業領導的關鍵地位，這個絕對要把握……"],["邱委員志偉：沒有錯，一定要根留臺灣，我們的核心技術一定要根留臺灣……"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，這種情況之下，我們有別於日本模式及韓國模式，日本是擴大投資，日本好像是5,500億，南韓是3,500億，我們是臺灣模式，臺灣模式是複製我們成功的經驗協助建立產業園區，對不對？我們廠商也過去，美國也配合，這種是好的模式。"],["卓院長榮泰：外國的模式是財政上一筆錢這樣投資的方式，我們是廠商去設廠的方式，對我們來講，這是剛剛您說的廠商延伸或者是全球布局的一種，但是他在那邊的生產和國內的生產相比，當然國內的領先地位，我們會維持住。"],["邱委員志偉：我們offer這些的目標就是我們232條款能夠得到更好的條件，對不對？然後疊加的稅率不要再疊加……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：或者原有的關稅可以再降低，這是我們努力的目標……"],["卓院長榮泰：這都是努力的，對。"],["邱委員志偉：你有沒有信心達到這個目標？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得依我們國家現在的科技發展實力，以及我們跟美方之間未來透過更正常的一些採購方面來看，我們可以就雙方的貿易平衡做很多的努力，這個我們也在做，如果這樣的話，我們有在做貿易平衡的努力，我們有我們產業上的優勢，我們應該可以得到更合理的待遇。"],["邱委員志偉：好。接下來就是這個月底、11月初APEC在韓國慶州登場，當然川普第二個任期，APEC一直在亞洲舉行，所以我們這個領袖代表已經決定了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該是決定了。"],["邱委員志偉：是不是跟半導體有關係？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是府方在作業。"],["邱委員志偉：還在作業，好……"],["卓院長榮泰：府方在作業。"],["邱委員志偉：因為一定要先跟APEC主辦方有一些默契嘛！我期待是由半導體方面的領導者，或者在全球有聲望的半導體高層，或者有威望的半導體權威人士，因為是很難得的機會可以跟各國領袖，特別是川普，當面做一些建議，或者做一些會談也有可能。所以人選已經決定了？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員這樣的建議，府方一定會非常重視。"],["邱委員志偉：我期待應該是從半導體來切入，由一個有國際聲望、領袖級、半導體的權威人士代表臺灣參加這個領袖的會議，APEC主辦方應該會接受吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：就我們提出的適當人選，我們都會經過正常的管道，表達我們參與這個的意願及他的功能性……"],["邱委員志偉：這個月底應該就會確定了，好。","另外，提到整個產業的因應，龔部長9月3號也去跟我們岡山……岡山是螺絲窟，螺絲窟現在面臨最嚴峻的挑戰就是，全球六大洲市場現在只有北美市場，而且不是北美市場全部，加拿大也沒有了，墨西哥也沒有了，其他洲也沒有了，因為中國的削價競爭，中國的扣件都比我們便宜三成到四成，所以我們只有美國的通路、美國市場，因為美國沒有設廠，所以美國的市場對我們很重要，你要怎麼協助金屬扣件廠商？大型的，我覺得它能因應，中小型的，你要怎麼讓它能夠繼續保持一定的經營能力、一定的競爭力？有幾項建議，我想包括人力、勞動力不足，包括他們夏季巔峰的電力成本，是不是有可能去考量？這些當場都有向您提出建議嘛！也包括檢討或廢除未分配盈餘加徵5%營所稅的部分，以減輕他們企業資金的壓力，另外，也希望央行跟財政部、金管會能釋出更多的資金，來協助相關中小型的扣件業者取得資金，這些就是當天的會議結論嘛！這部分不曉得經濟部有沒有相關的看法？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，報告委員，像金融支持的部分，我們一再的強調，就是雨天一定不收傘，甚至於還要撐更大的傘，所以在新的貸款部分，我們還提供信保，在一定額度以下是十成十的保證，而且利息是有減免的，以協助企業，如果它需要資金的話……"],["邱委員志偉：他們告訴我，他們並沒有特別有感覺，這個都是現在已經正在做的，特別情形、特別時期有特別的作法，要讓這些中小型產業能夠維持生存、維持競爭力，讓他們有感很重要。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們跟公股行庫也好，甚至於金管會還有銀行公會都一再的講，雨天不能收傘，也就是舊貸只要繳息正常，一定可以展延，而且可以展延半年，然後利息還可以有一些減免。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，9月3號你跟這些螺絲業者做過座談，到今天已經一個月了，他們所提出的事項你要很具體的答復這些扣件業者，讓他們了解我們政府有在做事，有在協助產業發展。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["邱委員志偉：這部分還沒有得到經濟部的相關訊息。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們的輔導團馬上組好就要下去了，全臺灣會在……"],["邱委員志偉：部長，扣件是全臺灣排名前三名的產業，而且很多的產業都需要扣件。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，但是我們很希望這個特別預算可以趕快通過，我們才有辦法擴大實施，要不然我們現在只能用移緩濟急的方式，移緩濟急規模有限。"],["邱委員志偉：預算當然會過，但是你要怎麼用對地方，提供給他們有感的政策、有感的協助，這點很重要，請龔部長再去深思。"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，有關於內政部跟國防部，內政部也編列加強反恐維安能量以及提升關鍵基礎設施防護效能的經費，今年編了34億；國防部針對提升關鍵基礎設施、國安能量大概也編列428億。我特別提到國境、國門，出入境時要維護國人搭機安全、旅客安全，院長，第一個，安檢是不是很重要？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["邱委員志偉：行李的安檢，第一個，要有充足人力；第二個，要有先進的設備，要有專業的人員、航警。我不管是從松山、桃園或者是小港出境的時候，常常發現一個問題，人力非常非常不夠，一個安檢線兩名同仁，因為航警同仁要看monitor，我們現在的行李輸送帶，你的行李要進去X光機，是用人工拿盤子去，一條安檢線只有一個保全公司人員，他還要拿行李，然後還要告訴你說，衣服要脫、帽子要脫、口袋的東西要拿出來、iPad要拿出來，總共只有兩個人，然後另外一個航警還要專心看monitor，看有沒有違禁品，查到違禁品時，誰去看？應該是有公權力的執法人員去看，應該是航警的人力去看，但看的人是誰？是保全公司，保全公司有這個專業去發現那個違禁品到底可不可以登機嗎？追根究柢就是，第一個，我們花那麼多的錢，包括農業部針對非洲豬瘟，一年也編了2億，然後我們要協助航警人力的部分，一年編了11億，這些經費為什麼不用來招募更多的航警人力？可以補充航警人力，由專業去執行，而不是請保全公司，保全公司一年一聘，專業的部分他要怎麼去執行？我每次搭飛機時都提心吊膽，一條線竟然只有兩位，而且行李有問題時，是保全公司的人去看，這樣國人搭機怎麼會安心？所以請院長一定要支持航警人力不足。現任的航警局趙局長剛到任一個月，我立即跟他反映，他有立即去改善，最重要的問題是人力不足，然後保全公司一年一聘，花了12億，為什麼你不用在設備更新呢？你用自動的轉盤輸送帶，空間不是不夠！我覺得臺灣的安檢品質在國際上是倒數的，人力也好，專業也好，我們用那麼多的X光機，那麼多的人身安檢設備，卻很少使用，一台要440萬，總共買了21台，有沒有人力去執行？比方說你經過X光機時，你的手要舉起來，你要經過安檢，或者它「嗶」的時候，你要用掃描器看一下，這個很少執行，為什麼？因為沒有人力，空有設備卻沒有人力，對於國境安全，我非常憂慮，主要是人力不夠。有關人力不夠，我想劉部長也了解，也跟行政院反映過，但是人力補充一直沒有辦法到位。","同樣地，非洲豬瘟的部分，只有臺灣跟日本是非豬瘟國，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：日本有聘用，每年用2億去做一個安檢設施嗎？日本好像也沒有。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們在機場會比較加強檢疫，最主要是因為我們國內養豬及廚餘的養豬系統，所以這個……"],["邱委員志偉：我瞭解，要嘛你就全面做，不要只有桃園機場做，桃園機場是外聘的，然後小港機場是用海關去查……"],["陳部長駿季：這個牽扯到場地，我也跟委員報告，您剛才講人力的部分，行政院方面，特別是院長也有支持，在檢疫人員的部分，行政院人事總處已經有多核配一些人，為了因應第三期的部分。"],["邱委員志偉：而且看那個的檢疫人員要專業，但也是保全公司在看。"],["陳部長駿季：對，後續對於正職的人員，我們會做調整。"],["邱委員志偉：公權力的行使不能用民間的保全業者。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員，航警人員的問題，我請劉部長再確實去了解，如果真的航警人員不足，保全的專業不足，還有各種安檢的品質也不足的話，我們會全面來看。"],["邱委員志偉：我發現年紀差距也滿大的，我看有4、50歲的，也有2、30歲的。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，明年我們把發展觀光列為擴大內需重要的一環，既然我們希望更多的人進來，那麼流程就要快，也希望安檢能夠澈底，這個我們來檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：我寧願慢一點，檢查仔細一點、精確一點、安全一點，我們搭機才會安心嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們來檢討整個流程。"],["邱委員志偉：我寧願慢一點，如果流於形式的話，這樣對旅客的飛行安全、旅行安全是非常非常大的威脅。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會同時並進，我們希望外國旅客多來，也希望在程序上能夠讓他們覺得臺灣是一個親近的國家。"],["邱委員志偉：追根究柢就是人力不夠，人力不夠就很難辦事。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們來檢討。"],["邱委員志偉：然後設備要更新，不要還是用二次世界大戰以後的行李轉盤，還要用人力去搬，放行李的X光機轉盤，有時候看monitor的航警人員還要去幫忙拿盤子，日本是在前面就放一個音響，然後用日文、英文、中文、韓文廣播，請旅客要把什麼東西拿出來，這個我們都可以學習嘛！最起碼行李輸送帶要現代化一點，它可以自動輸送，這不是沒有預算啊！這關乎國境的安全，這也是非常重要的。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員的提醒，我們來檢討這個過程。"],["邱委員志偉：每次質詢時間都過得很快。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝院長，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請林德福委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163808","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163808","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b89039aabf41e030a132704543300bdabf02399d32d779812cf3f88d0086199a8d6a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"15:18:40 - 15:34:24","影片長度":"00:15:44","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T15:18:40+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T15:34:24+08:00","duration":944,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.0259687500000005,"end":10.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.447218750000001,"end":9.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.80846875,"end":19.926593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.926593750000002,"end":20.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.43284375,"end":20.449718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.88846875,"end":25.731593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.145343750000002,"end":24.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":26.136593750000003,"end":33.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":34.034093750000004,"end":38.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.354093750000004,"end":39.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.17659375,"end":43.500968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":43.90596875,"end":48.462218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.664718750000006,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":52.63034375,"end":53.305343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.55846875,"end":57.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.27096875,"end":59.78534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.156593750000006,"end":70.68659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":70.88909375,"end":75.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.54221875,"end":79.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.84971875000001,"end":84.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":84.13596875,"end":87.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.22409375000001,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.85096875,"end":104.03159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.03159375000001,"end":104.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.55471875,"end":104.67284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.74034375000001,"end":104.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.77409375,"end":105.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.17909375,"end":105.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":105.34784375000001,"end":105.36471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.36471875000001,"end":107.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.31784375000001,"end":111.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.28784375000001,"end":112.04721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.31721875000001,"end":114.66284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.20284375000001,"end":119.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.50596875000001,"end":120.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.83909375,"end":123.30284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.31971875,"end":124.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.87221875,"end":127.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.36534375,"end":134.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.19971875000002,"end":135.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.63846875000002,"end":135.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.95909375000002,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.42971875,"end":161.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.89596875,"end":172.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.22346875000002,"end":176.02034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.46346875,"end":177.84284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.89346875,"end":180.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.47534375,"end":184.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.59284375000001,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.53346875000003,"end":188.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.77784375000002,"end":189.21659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.89159375,"end":190.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.95471875,"end":191.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.15284375000002,"end":205.53471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.18659375000001,"end":194.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.83846875,"end":205.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.85534375,"end":205.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.87221875,"end":205.97346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.97346875000002,"end":211.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.33971875,"end":213.34784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":213.61784375000002,"end":238.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.08221875,"end":243.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":244.58346875,"end":245.34284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":245.74784375000002,"end":248.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":248.61659375000002,"end":251.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.70471875,"end":262.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":263.31471875,"end":271.66784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":271.98846875000004,"end":280.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.21909375,"end":286.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":287.12534375,"end":288.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":288.40784375000004,"end":291.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":292.23846875000004,"end":304.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.82721875000004,"end":314.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.54721875,"end":322.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.59659375,"end":349.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":325.87034375,"end":326.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.20784375,"end":326.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.57034375,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":347.90909375,"end":367.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.86784375,"end":371.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":371.66909375,"end":377.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":378.13221875000005,"end":381.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.48596875000004,"end":382.90784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.21159375,"end":386.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":386.82284375,"end":387.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":387.34596875,"end":426.29346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.41159375,"end":430.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.18721875,"end":435.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.01346875,"end":437.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.68409375000005,"end":439.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":439.97909375,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":465.17346875000004,"end":470.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":469.96596875000006,"end":475.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.63221875000005,"end":472.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.98221875,"end":497.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.12971875000005,"end":476.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":476.98596875000004,"end":477.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.16409375,"end":515.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":515.4609687500001,"end":520.6753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.72596875,"end":532.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":532.85909375,"end":535.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":535.50846875,"end":560.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":560.7703437499999,"end":565.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":565.9678437499999,"end":567.1828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":567.45284375,"end":570.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":571.1315937500001,"end":579.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":580.21034375,"end":591.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.61346875,"end":593.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.3897187499999,"end":599.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":599.9709687500001,"end":614.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":615.10784375,"end":625.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":625.2665937500001,"end":627.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":627.0890937500001,"end":636.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.89346875,"end":640.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":640.7240937500001,"end":643.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":643.9978437500001,"end":648.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":648.5203437499999,"end":649.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.7522187500001,"end":658.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":659.11784375,"end":680.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":681.2409687500001,"end":683.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.4640937500001,"end":692.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.4797187500001,"end":692.9184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.54284375,"end":697.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.08221875,"end":699.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.27596875,"end":704.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":705.33846875,"end":709.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":709.4897187500001,"end":709.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":710.41784375,"end":715.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":716.1553437500002,"end":719.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.5772187500002,"end":718.3659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.4965937500001,"end":719.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":719.85096875,"end":721.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":721.65659375,"end":725.6897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.7240937500001,"end":721.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":726.06096875,"end":731.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":732.49034375,"end":757.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":757.93784375,"end":758.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":758.8490937500001,"end":767.1684687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":767.5734687500001,"end":773.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.2222187500001,"end":775.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":775.52159375,"end":779.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.9934687500001,"end":782.0859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":782.2547187499999,"end":790.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.43471875,"end":799.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":799.46721875,"end":800.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":800.74971875,"end":806.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":807.0947187500001,"end":808.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":809.01846875,"end":809.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":810.57096875,"end":815.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":815.36346875,"end":821.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":822.61971875,"end":823.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.75034375,"end":829.7409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":830.24721875,"end":833.0990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":833.5715937500001,"end":836.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":836.71034375,"end":843.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":843.49409375,"end":846.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.0715937500001,"end":848.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":848.3034687500001,"end":855.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":855.94784375,"end":861.7022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":862.00596875,"end":864.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.0734687500001,"end":862.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":862.14096875,"end":862.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.0772187500002,"end":868.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":866.95034375,"end":870.49409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.6965937500001,"end":878.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":878.5434687500001,"end":883.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":883.5047187500002,"end":889.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":889.3603437500001,"end":892.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":893.41034375,"end":912.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":912.09096875,"end":912.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":912.09096875,"end":913.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":913.76159375,"end":921.3215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":921.6928437500001,"end":924.1228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":934.72034375,"end":934.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":940.94721875,"end":941.3859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":942.0103437500002,"end":943.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":943.2084687500001,"end":944.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":943.9678437500002,"end":944.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":944.9465937500001,"end":944.9634687500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.046,"end":9.13,"text":"好 謝謝大衛主席 江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院 卓院長謝謝"},{"start":19.964,"end":47.865,"text":"黃委員好院長好 院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說 行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說"},{"start":48.706,"end":75.714,"text":"要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的"},{"start":76.564,"end":102.87,"text":"初心啊 我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為"},{"start":105.638,"end":126.331,"text":"報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的"},{"start":128.41,"end":136.378,"text":"普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海"},{"start":144.526,"end":161.348,"text":"不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說"},{"start":162.129,"end":190.476,"text":"這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要"},{"start":194.259,"end":210.898,"text":"我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的"},{"start":211.868,"end":238.564,"text":"這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了"},{"start":239.144,"end":262.577,"text":"那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎"},{"start":263.839,"end":291.83,"text":"跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的"},{"start":292.31,"end":309.931,"text":"那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役"},{"start":310.752,"end":324.884,"text":"還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力"},{"start":326.125,"end":345.399,"text":"所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個"},{"start":346.119,"end":367.478,"text":"自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點"},{"start":370.11,"end":385.909,"text":"這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的"},{"start":387.795,"end":406.847,"text":"我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個"},{"start":407.647,"end":426.234,"text":"年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益"},{"start":426.834,"end":450.644,"text":"我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,"},{"start":451.204,"end":469.955,"text":"當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響"},{"start":471.195,"end":497.426,"text":"應該不是 應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好 沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個"},{"start":498.286,"end":518.555,"text":"特別預算 這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以"},{"start":519.095,"end":535.012,"text":"擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下"},{"start":536.303,"end":559.676,"text":"謝謝部長 院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗"},{"start":561.198,"end":579.538,"text":"複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊"},{"start":580.279,"end":592.682,"text":"是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個"},{"start":593.513,"end":619.065,"text":"是不是硬體設備 我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒 技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係 可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移 包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業 上下游"},{"start":619.725,"end":642.199,"text":"並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況"},{"start":644.022,"end":664.569,"text":"前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要"},{"start":665.089,"end":680.729,"text":"把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情"},{"start":681.454,"end":695.288,"text":"包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠"},{"start":700.353,"end":715.464,"text":"但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題"},{"start":716.204,"end":731.547,"text":"好 部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係 因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響"},{"start":732.734,"end":756.867,"text":"包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商"},{"start":758.888,"end":773.563,"text":"好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統"},{"start":774.284,"end":788.37,"text":"那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有"},{"start":791.425,"end":809.448,"text":"泥沙量還有很多 目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題"},{"start":810.643,"end":821.824,"text":"國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情"},{"start":823.88,"end":846.459,"text":"這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去"},{"start":847.119,"end":870.183,"text":"目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎"},{"start":870.823,"end":891.873,"text":"如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好 院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面"},{"start":893.462,"end":919.701,"text":"台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼"},{"start":921.782,"end":923.503,"text":"因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":396,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（15時18分）謝謝大會主席江副院長。我們現在先請行政院卓院長，謝謝。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長好。院長，我們今天來討論這個預算的問題，我想要先跟院長討論身為我們國家最高的行政首長，在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法，因為稍早之前，其他委員有稍微提到前段時間院長好像比較排斥普發現金1萬元，包含我們也找到在7月17日的時候，院長、行政院講這要舉債來普發現金，讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得要舉債來普發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇。如果真的是靠舉債發現金，我個人當然也覺得不太恰當。但是按照今天這個報告，可以看到主計長的報告講到這一次的財源裡面有5,500億元，實際上有4,444億元是用過去年度的歲計賸餘，舉債的部分是1,056億，所以換句話說，如果按照一開始的初心，我們那時候是為了應付美國關稅可能導致民間的一些投資、消費受到影響，所以希望把歲計賸餘用來普發現金1萬元，也就是在財政部現在的預算裡面，普發現金大約是2,300億到2,500億左右的金額，這樣的規模，我想對於歲計賸餘來講是足夠的，那院長為什麼當初要講說這個要透過舉債來發錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算規模是4,100億，這委員應該記得，後來增加到5,430億，增加的部分，就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4,100億是足夠的，後來刪掉了台電的1,000億，又刪掉了其他相關預算，加上2,350億的普發現金，才變成今天這樣一個4,444億的歲計賸餘加上1,056億的舉債。"],["黃委員健豪：院長，我要跟你表達一下立法院的立場，當初我們講的後續的這個韌性特別預算，已經是包山包海，不單單只是普發現金，還包含等一下要談到的國防支出，還有很多的韌性預算，所以才達到5,500億的規模，但是在普發現金1萬元的這個規模上，它只花了兩千三百多億，對我們來講，理論上，因為我們看到歲計賸餘有四千多億，所以才提出這些歲計賸餘應該用來普發現金，讓民眾共享經濟發展成果，順便也能面對因為美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致的民間消費問題，在這邊我想先跟院長表達一下立場。"],["卓院長榮泰：當初的4,100億當中，如果包含兩千三百多億的普發現金，就一定會排擠其他我們認為國家當前所需要的，後來我們增加預算以後，現在真的是舉債，這個真的是舉債，但是國人需要，而且大院的表決也是這樣……"],["黃委員健豪：我想是實際上有這個需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們尊重這個結果，但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多，這值得思考，不過話說回來，國家現在是有舉債空間，我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已。"],["黃委員健豪：好，院長，既然你講到資源排擠、資源排序的問題，針對這一次的韌性特別預算，我也要問一下院長和國防部。這一次特別預算5,500億裡面，有一千一百多億是針對所謂的國防支出在做韌性工作，當然，要做國防韌性支出，民眾一定會支持，立法院也會支持，但問題是，今天這個錢放在特別預算裡，我們現在審查的當下已經10月初了，等到送出立法院到你們執行，最快可能10月底，從10月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月時間，而明年度的總預算裡面，國防預算也照樣增加，占了20%左右，在這樣的前提之下，為什麼這一次要把國防韌性預算放在特別預算裡面？可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義，現在委員會質疑的是它的急迫性如何？我今天在回復其他委員的說明是它可以分成兩大塊，一塊是強化國土防衛能量，一塊是提升資通作業環境及設備，這兩個措施如果用年度預算來看，比如彈藥庫的部分，只能維持一個基本作業；或者是訓場部分，都只能維持基本作業，因為用作業維持費的話，我們的年度作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善部分，所以為了因應陸續要籌獲大量的新式武器、因應一年期義務役，還有後備戰力提升，我們必須用這樣的特別預算，快速的用兩年時間，將這些彈庫還有訓場快速整建完成，之後才能足夠的因應我們需要的戰備能力，所以我們的戰備存量也要快速地提升。資通的部分，過去也是一樣，都是一些例行性的裝備部分的維持，現在我們要把整個資通韌性、機動能夠有備援，讓我們能夠在這兩年之內快速地籌獲，我想這對我們整個資通安全的環境以及機動備援都有很大的提升。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，你剛剛講的這部分我都理解，但我們也希望這部分投下去，能夠有一個長期的支出、長期的效用，但是你看在你們送進來的這一千一百多億特別預算裡面，經常門占了1,000億，資本門六百多億，在比例上來講，資本門的比例似乎稍微低了一點，這對於長期投資，對於這種……今天你要提韌性，大家都可以支持，但是你們在整個總預算的分配上，經常門的比例高於資本門，這個比例感覺對整個國家長期的財政穩定是有影響的。"],["顧部長立雄：委員，經常門跟資本門的比例這個部分，我手上現在沒有資料，我下去以後再進一步了解，再給委員一個書面回復。"],["黃委員健豪：好。"],["顧部長立雄：但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了，就是你要快速地去強化韌性，如果你用一般的年度預算，會產生一個排擠的效果，這是我們現在最擔心的部分，所以如果能夠支應這個特別預算的話，我們就能夠快速地集中資源。同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購，所以可以擴大內需的產能，產生產業互加的效益。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我想今天因為時間有限，我還是要跟部長、院長提醒，接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查，我們今天談的特別預算裡面，不管是總預算，還是這一次韌性的特別預算，在國防韌性的支出上，我想比例跟過去來比都相對比較高，很多的預算都是以這個為主，當然我們就擔心會不會造成其他預算的排擠。要造成預算排擠的前提是說，如果這個錢投下去，就像我剛剛所強調的，這個錢投下去，如果是作為資本門，或是作為長期的投資，作為後續能夠繼續使用的，那當然大家可以比較好去支持，但是如果你的經常門比例過高，好像錢花下去就不見了，我想這對於國家財政的完整性有一定程度的影響……"],["顧部長立雄：應該不是。"],["卓院長榮泰：再請部長能夠跟委員……"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個數據能夠把它說明清楚。"],["黃委員健豪：書面資料上面有寫啦！不過沒關係，今天時間有限，我們先不在這邊糾結，我還是希望把這個立場跟你們清楚地表態一下，因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題。我們的國防支出占比高達百分之二十，也比過去往年提高這麼多，到底錢花在什麼地方，我想這是國人最關心的部分。因為包含這一次的韌性特別預算，一開始我們期待要去面對所謂的美國關稅，如果裡面的採購項目可以在談判的過程裡面降低所謂關稅上的落差，可以去弭平所謂貿易逆差的部分，那當然可能可以作為談判的條件，但是因為你現在說這個的角度是用來擴大內需，那也可以，擴大內需當然大家也可以支持，讓國內的產業、讓國內的就業人口能夠提升，我想這個大家也不會有太多意見，但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算？我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛比例的部分，我再下去了解一下。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝、謝謝部長。院長，我繼續討論，這兩天的新聞提到晶片製造五五分，當然我們的鄭麗君副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情，但是可能提到要把整個產業、科學園區去美國設廠或提供相關的協助。稍早之前，經濟部的臉書又提到說矽谷只有一個，大家複製矽谷，但是矽谷並沒有因此造成掏空，所以我們把產業經驗複製到國外去，也不會造成產業掏空，剛剛有這樣子的論述。但是我要問的是說，今天大家擔心的，我們講實在話，世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗，但是矽谷自己本身的產值，他自己的技術，他並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊！是我們想抄他們，是其他國家想學習他。今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈，今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈，如果是把它移去美國，第一個，是不是硬體設備、我們的人員培育，還有我們的產能會受到影響？我想這個是國人比較關心的問題。","今天如果美國政府或是其他國家覺得臺灣的晶片產業很棒、技術很好，所以他們要在當地自己來弄，我們提供一些技術上的協助當然沒關係，可是今天看起來不是啊！今天看起來是你要讓整個產業外移，包含上下供應鏈，我想這對於國內的產業上下游，並不是只有台積電，今天台積電之所以是台積電，是因為它還有完整的供應鏈，才有今天的成果，如果你把這個東西帶去美國，會不會對臺灣的產業造成一定程度的影響及衝擊？這是第一個部分。","第二個部分，其實我們在討論這個預算，我很驚訝的是已經10月了，但是到底談判的結果或內容為何，好像還沒有完整的說法給我們，因為一直在暫時的狀況，前兩天美國說五五分，我們說沒有，我們是要做其他的事情，所以這對各個產業……我講真的，企業界大家最希望的東西不是談得多好或多爛，而是跟我們說到底現在的情況是什麼，產業才能夠面對嘛！就是到底接下來要怎麼避險，或是接下來要不要把廠怎麼樣做一個處理，這個是對勞工要有一個交代，對這些企業主要有一個交代，但是因為我覺得現在處於一個不定的狀態，所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來？因為美國在談判的過程裡面一直提出不同的要求，到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所謂先進製程的部分，我們的原則一定是這樣，立足臺灣才能布局全球，因為立足臺灣，所以最先進的技術一定是留在臺灣發展的。台積電現在要投資1,635億這個部分，它可能會蓋6個廠，但是現在已經確定了，未來在中科就會蓋4座廠，所以單單才……那是因為中科的腹地不夠大，否則可能還會再蓋。所以以量來講、以最先進的來講，一定是留在臺灣，絕對不會有所謂掏空臺灣的問題。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，如果確定的話，有你這句話……"],["龔部長明鑫：另外一個就是剛剛提到……"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，因為時間有限，其實應該這樣講，我只是要確定這個產能所帶來的經濟效益，它跟它中、上、下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們現在對於談判的時間沒有辦法確定，但是我們在幫助企業部分的移緩濟急已經開始了。我們現在有3個方案，包括金融支持、生技轉型或者是多元市場，現在收案已經收到一千多件，我們會儘快來幫忙，只是要移緩濟急畢竟資源有限，所以希望預算趕快通過，我們就可以擴大層面協助廠商。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，謝謝，請回。院長，持續就教這一次的特別預算，裡面包含了韌性的部分，也包含了整備防救災緊急維生設備的建置，大概有15億元，這當然會涉及到村里的指揮系統。有關韌性，這一次花蓮的這個案子，我想這跟韌性就是直接相關，這就是韌性的問題。","我想問一下，在資源配置裡面，包含今天上午，李鴻源前部長提到，看起來目前這個堰塞湖的問題後續可能還會有泥沙量……目前只有7,000萬噸的泥沙量排下來，但還有2.5億噸的泥沙在上面，後續考量到可能會有緊急的狀況，有可能要遷村或有其他的狀況，不知道院長未來對於這種韌性的問題……這也是真正的國土安全，這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理？還是未來遇到新的風災，又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情？"],["卓院長榮泰：馬太鞍堰塞湖已經從一個深的堰塞湖，變成一個比較淺碟性的堰塞湖，所以帶來的衝擊、條件就不一樣。現在我們第一個是希望持續加強監測整個水位的變化，對於整個堰塞湖旁邊泥沙堆積的情況，我們也會加以監測。昨天你也有看到我們的直升機有到現場去，目前人員都下不去。當然，除了這個堰塞湖之外，全國各地還有其他的堰塞湖地方，我們認為要起一個全面性的盤整，用這次的經驗來告訴大家，未來要如何在堰塞湖形成之後去因應，包括事件發生之前要如何做很多預防性的工作。"],["黃委員健豪：預防性的工作有包含遷村這種手段嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果真的有需要的話，我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性，這會減少很多人命、財產的損失。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝院長。在今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下，院長，這一次的產業衝擊對臺中的影響特別大，我在最近新公布所謂的減班休息裡面，其實就是在無薪假的狀況裡面，臺中的產業其實受到的影響、衝擊最大，目前來講，臺中在全國目前有減班休息的比例是最高的。因為減班休息不等於失業，所以這一群人現在等於是在放無薪假，他反而可能無法在這一次的條例裡面受益。對於無薪假的部分，政府有沒有更具體的作法或是對減班休息有更具體的補償措施？"],["卓院長榮泰：勞動部有一些周延的措施。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員報告，我們對於減班休息的勞工，目前其實是有推出薪資的差額補貼。就算是減班休息，還是要付最低工資，他原本的薪資跟最低工資之間的差額，我們會給予七成的補貼，也包括我們給予參訓的津貼，一個小時是190元，明年開始一個小時就是196元，這部分其實跟薪資的差額補貼可以併領，最高可以領到他原本的薪資，這是我們對他經濟上的支持。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我們再聊，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員支持特別預算，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163807","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163807","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890d12b83d988c4421d704543300bdabf02399d32d779812cf310497944ed0372c35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"15:02:43 - 15:18:28","影片長度":"00:15:45","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T15:02:43+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T15:18:28+08:00","duration":945,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.53096875,"end":25.54596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.69784375,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.751593750000005,"end":33.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.98346875,"end":35.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.282843750000005,"end":35.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.97471875,"end":36.025343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.025343750000005,"end":36.07596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.07596875,"end":36.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.81846875,"end":38.978468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.978468750000005,"end":38.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.99534375,"end":39.079718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.079718750000005,"end":39.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.13034375,"end":39.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.26534375,"end":39.518468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":40.26096875,"end":40.27784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.27784375,"end":40.69971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.69534375,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.712218750000005,"end":43.416593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":43.65284375,"end":46.150343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.50471875,"end":48.563468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.86721875,"end":49.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.77846875,"end":50.40284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.453468750000006,"end":51.837218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":52.174718750000004,"end":56.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":56.899718750000005,"end":57.861593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.99659375,"end":65.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.28221875,"end":67.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.56471875,"end":71.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.58096875000001,"end":72.79596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.96471875,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":79.17471875000001,"end":79.51221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.64721875000001,"end":88.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.01284375,"end":89.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.82284375,"end":93.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":93.36659375,"end":95.25659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":95.66159375000001,"end":99.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.74534375,"end":116.95784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":117.68346875,"end":120.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.41721875,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.82596875,"end":138.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.73221875000002,"end":131.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.74846875,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.19909375,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.84784375,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":151.19721875000002,"end":155.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":155.68596875,"end":159.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.43221875,"end":159.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.90471875,"end":164.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":164.59596875,"end":168.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":168.89909375000002,"end":174.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":175.02471875,"end":187.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":181.53846875000002,"end":182.38221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.76534375,"end":195.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.66284375,"end":200.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.36659375000002,"end":210.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.12471875,"end":213.80346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.14096875,"end":220.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.77284375000002,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.27471875,"end":233.05784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":233.36159375000003,"end":236.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":237.10784375000003,"end":243.18284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":243.23346875000001,"end":255.46784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.15971875,"end":256.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.10471875,"end":258.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":258.21846875,"end":289.20096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.32284375,"end":266.74034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":273.13596875,"end":273.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":283.32846875,"end":283.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.21784375000004,"end":295.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.11971875,"end":300.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.30034375,"end":320.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":320.99346875000003,"end":323.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":323.49096875000004,"end":326.96721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":327.22034375000004,"end":328.89096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":329.07659375000003,"end":329.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":330.71346875,"end":331.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":332.13096875,"end":333.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":334.27409375,"end":336.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":336.75471875,"end":341.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":340.78784375000004,"end":352.14471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.44846875,"end":353.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.56221875,"end":359.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.40096875,"end":360.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.83534375000005,"end":364.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":365.00346875,"end":367.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.73721875,"end":372.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.66471875,"end":377.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.03471875,"end":385.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.05096875000004,"end":386.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":386.97471875,"end":387.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.04221875,"end":387.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.17721875,"end":387.26159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.26159375000003,"end":387.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.31221875,"end":387.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":387.36284375,"end":395.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.41346875000005,"end":387.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":396.67784375,"end":407.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":407.84909375,"end":409.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.63784375,"end":415.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.64096875,"end":416.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":417.33284375000005,"end":422.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":423.05346875000004,"end":430.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.03534375000004,"end":435.38909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.57471875000005,"end":448.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":448.93971875000005,"end":464.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":464.51534375000006,"end":467.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.72159375,"end":468.16034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.48096875000005,"end":473.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.39159375,"end":474.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.58971875000003,"end":487.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.81971875000005,"end":487.88721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.88721875000005,"end":488.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.76471875000004,"end":495.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":495.97034375000004,"end":496.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":496.76346875,"end":496.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":496.86471875,"end":497.65784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":498.40034375000005,"end":508.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":508.91346875000005,"end":509.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":510.41534375000003,"end":512.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":513.0815937500001,"end":516.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.0347187500001,"end":529.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.56846875,"end":530.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.5303437499999,"end":550.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.7297187500001,"end":554.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.43784375,"end":558.71159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.9140937500001,"end":567.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":567.13221875,"end":568.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":568.7353437500001,"end":570.08534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":570.4734687499999,"end":573.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.3928437500001,"end":586.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":586.25159375,"end":623.0053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":623.2922187500001,"end":627.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.86534375,"end":629.3503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.40096875,"end":632.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":633.0290937500001,"end":635.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":635.4422187499999,"end":638.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.9184687500001,"end":652.1484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":652.50284375,"end":652.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":652.51971875,"end":654.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":655.43909375,"end":658.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":658.42596875,"end":660.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":661.1428437500001,"end":663.6572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":664.04534375,"end":665.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":666.13784375,"end":667.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":667.42034375,"end":676.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":676.1953437500001,"end":682.6922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":682.89471875,"end":692.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.3953437499999,"end":697.5759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.6940937500001,"end":700.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.17034375,"end":701.9465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":702.25034375,"end":706.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.2834687500001,"end":710.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":710.55284375,"end":713.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":713.1684687500001,"end":718.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":718.87221875,"end":720.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":720.52596875,"end":729.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":730.22909375,"end":733.78971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":733.9584687500001,"end":736.33784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":736.5234687500001,"end":739.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.40909375,"end":744.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.47159375,"end":761.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.8022187500001,"end":762.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.9665937500001,"end":762.9834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":762.9834687500002,"end":765.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":766.12221875,"end":776.8715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.2865937500001,"end":767.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":774.84659375,"end":775.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.51721875,"end":824.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":824.8134687500001,"end":865.6340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":865.8872187500001,"end":871.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":872.01284375,"end":880.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":880.8215937500001,"end":881.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.6484687500001,"end":882.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":882.4584687500001,"end":894.8953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":895.18221875,"end":895.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":895.9753437500001,"end":896.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":896.86971875,"end":900.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":901.56096875,"end":920.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.6865937500002,"end":908.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":920.68034375,"end":923.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.2959687500002,"end":925.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":925.2197187500001,"end":937.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":937.97721875,"end":938.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.0615937500002,"end":938.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":938.09534375,"end":938.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.1459687500001,"end":938.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":941.08221875,"end":941.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":942.73596875,"end":944.0690937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":13.741,"end":40.382,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進列席政府機關所長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請卓院長請卓院長備詢還有我們衛福部的石部長交通部的陳部長石部長和陳部長請備詢總委員好院長好兩位部長好交通部長今天沒有備詢好 那那麼"},{"start":41.735,"end":65.509,"text":"院長部長今天我們是這個特別預算的是因應國際情勢還要強化經濟社會以及我們的民生國安韌性那我特別重視民生國安韌性因為在我的認知當中只要完善防救災就是提高我們的強化民生國安的韌性所以底下就這一次花蓮的防救災來跟您請教"},{"start":66.369,"end":93.074,"text":"首先我們再回顧一下院長在今年的8月10號的院會當中我曾經針對8月10的風災有發生過需要用無人機送藥的事情不知道院長你還記得嗎有那時候我希望能夠簡化流程提前準備那也希望院長指示在各個需要點來設立示範點來排除法規的限制那請問這樣的一個要求後來行政院是不是已經有落實了"},{"start":93.39,"end":115.557,"text":"我相信石部長已經在這次的這個菸賽福的事件當中他已經執行過這樣的一個功能那是不是請石部長說明一下除了無人機送藥這件事情之外前置的法制作為我們知道無人機送藥分成兩個部分一個是無人機車交通部的業務送藥的部分涉及到醫事法 藥事法對不對那這個是不是跟我們之前在推動的所謂的通訊診療辦法有關"},{"start":117.925,"end":132.863,"text":"跟委員報告這一次在馬太安溪的煙色湖災害事件的第一刻我們就派遣了無人機團隊進駐到花蓮後來也成功執行任務後來真的有這個需求發生"},{"start":133.243,"end":150.619,"text":"那我们就非常快的时间就反应了也让这个病人能够及时拿到药物那基于这几次的成功经验所以我们接下来大概朝三个方向也扣合您刚刚的指教第一个先去盘点全国大概有这样缺口需要的"},{"start":151.5,"end":181.003,"text":"有哪一些風險點事先規劃因為這個無人機要這個送藥的操作他必須事先規劃這個航線所以跟這個落地點這個都要先選擇好所以第一步我們會先去盤點那第二個呢這個啟動的過程會有很多的跨部會的合作那因此我們要建立一個平台讓他的作業起來能夠更迅速第三個就是您關切的法規的部分能不能繼續鬆綁我們目前是在緊急災難的情形之下可以適用"},{"start":181.443,"end":194.752,"text":"那能不能夠用在偏鄉然後在平常就可以操作這是我們第三個好 院長聽到沒有第三個我關心的就是最近就是今天的報紙報導說首次用無人機送血"},{"start":195.868,"end":221.826,"text":"不是災害也不是災區但是血液的緊急作用很重要所以接下來我就是一個問題了所以根據我們的交通部主管的民用航空法當中遙控無人機的管理規則第33條當時我的專案諮詢有提到第一項是說在災害應變時這個沒有問題只要應變指揮官的下達指令就可以不受既有的無人機的使用規則就可以派遣但是第二個"},{"start":222.426,"end":250.909,"text":"第二項的時候呢他說在災害以外的緊急狀況發生的時候仍然有所謂的現場指揮官或權責機關指定的現場負責人員你想像一個情況假如登山客爬山不是災害喔被蛇咬了馬上要運送蛇毒血進去那請問這個時候的無人機派遣現場誰是指揮官誰是權責機關指定的人員是不是要請衛務部跟交通部預先把這個第二項的相關人員的法制呢"},{"start":251.389,"end":273.34,"text":"先把它配備所以平常就可以送包括醫材跟醫藥院長 部長來 部長請跟委員報告這個大概分成兩段一個是適用緊急醫療法我們緊急醫療法也有行動性我講的是無人機的部分對 我們來修正討論法規讓它在剛剛這個情境是緊急醫療的需要"},{"start":274.04,"end":287.848,"text":"緊急送藥啦 或者是這個解毒劑啊等等的這個有時效性的 這是緊急醫療那第二個是比較常規性這個偏遠地區送藥那個讓民眾更方便那這兩個不同的法規我們會來研議"},{"start":289.269,"end":313.362,"text":"那院長我要說的就是說現在呢根據這個無人機的管理規則大概只有限定到緊急狀況但是我們看到以小琉球為例啊離島地區如果輸送磚塊水泥我一定用船運但是我不可能為了運一些醫材藥材啊我拍一艘船太貴了反而無人機就送過去是平常的經濟便利的行為是不是可以請院長指示交通部跟我們的衛福部呢就這個醫療機構平常"},{"start":315.283,"end":329.398,"text":"在特殊地區他這種用無人機用比較經濟便利的行為也納入平常的法規範謝謝委員我們現在技術上可及而且我們整個產業的提升能力也到了我認為在災害的地方災害的時間"},{"start":330.731,"end":360.314,"text":"偏遠的地區緊急醫療的作為上面一定要納入未來我們可以服務的對象甚至如果我們有更廣泛的範圍要去處理的話我願意我們全力來演講謝謝院長好 接下來我要請顧部長也一塊來那麼高思英院長現在在我們這一次有一個軍民之通作業環境韌性及設備效能提升計畫在這次預算當中那我們看到這個國防部有一個叫做變息型的衛星訊號接收器那我們很好奇"},{"start":362.034,"end":386.419,"text":"這個計畫當中包含了變息型的衛星訊號接收器它是不是可以隨時的部署甚至可以部署到一般緊急派駐的民間家裡去部長您可以看到畫面這是不是我們國防部目前的裝備樣貌我們這個變息型的個人可以吸行的"},{"start":387.478,"end":416.682,"text":"可以部署很迅速 那我往下看那麼現在不只是現在未來的指揮不只是企業管理或是國軍的指揮管理都要扁平化尤其是防災救災的通報我們看到這一次的情況我們中央應變指揮中心已經下達了要求地方要進行疏散 要進行撤離但是層層的轉花如果說地方中間有任何環節鬆脫就沒有辦法貫徹我們中央對地方的要求 是不是這樣子是"},{"start":417.366,"end":444.235,"text":"好 那現在我們看一下那如果過去在台灣經常好發的災害類型是颱風颱風其實都有個預警期那過去我們在地方政府的執政經驗其實都會有一個預警的時期而且常常說超前部署那您知道嗎 超前部署很多都是用我們國軍裡面的後備幹部就是我們的後備指揮部裡面的後備幹部他們會提早到各鄉鎮去擔任聯絡官的角色那我們是想請教一下院長"},{"start":444.795,"end":467.122,"text":"未來如果說這種災害的預防式的部署我們國軍的後備幹部下去的時候有沒有可能也可以攜帶這種便利型的通訊裝備以便萬一有中央掌握到緊急的狀況可以直接透由這些後備幹部在各村裡就可以幫忙把訊息傳遞到必要人員手上"},{"start":468.93,"end":497.242,"text":"我想我們這些多重的通訊手段都可以在這個有不管是天災發生或是負荷性災難的時候都可以來做那這個不管是無線電或者是衛星手機還有一些微波還有有一些中繼的煉爐我們想都可以來進行這樣子像這樣的一個強化國安韌性的這樣的器材其實在平常如果建置起來之後就可以用我們在"},{"start":498.473,"end":516.48,"text":"自災害的經驗看來如果我們有充實更多的裝備訓練更完善的人才人員的話我們會把災害的損失再降低所以現在我們這個相關的特別預算的裡面就是希望能夠更多的充實一些必須要有的像類似這樣的裝備我們盡量把它補起來也好"},{"start":517,"end":535.015,"text":"接下來謝謝國防部副部長接下來我們要請內政部的劉部長還有我們也是要再請衛福部的時務部長上來我看到衛福部有一個強化獨居老人的關懷服務計畫在我們這次特別預算當中我們知道包括我們的劉部長我過去在高屏地區有算是幾百多名"},{"start":539.6,"end":554.196,"text":"我們都知道在我們南部經常遇到颱風所以我們會做一些預防式的疏散那這個時候我們不只是有靠護證系統因為護證資料是固定的但是有沒有在籍人口有沒有都在那裡還要透過什麼 透過設證"},{"start":555.472,"end":572.246,"text":"什麼是射陣有沒有在領老人的一些關懷服務的要透過衛陣有沒有臥病在床的需要慢性病送藥的甚至要透過警陣才會知道說有沒有一些流動人口住在人裡面所以是不是請劉部長說明一下像這樣的一個強化獨居老人關懷的服務計畫雖然是衛護部主政"},{"start":574.668,"end":604.328,"text":"但是遇到像這次的災害需要緊急撤離的時候這些保全名單是不是更有助於我們內政部在要求的時候呢可以掌握到這些必須緊急疏散撤離的人員報告委員我想你非常經驗豐富通常我們就是把他講的他是保全戶那這個保全戶只要訊息開始啟動的時候都會要求縣市地方政府或是鄉鎮公所包括從民政戶政或者是社會或者是警政系統去確定一下他有沒有在即"},{"start":605.168,"end":622.794,"text":"或者有沒有在現場或者他現在的身心狀態那如果有碰到開始有發布相關警報的時候就會啟動所謂的預防性的疏散撤離就幾乎會在汛期之前在前一天或是前24小時48小時就先異地撤離或做其他安全地方的安置"},{"start":623.314,"end":639.601,"text":"好謝謝院長剛剛劉部長跟兩個石部長兩要合作這個計畫雖然是衛福部的但是如果平常的演練還加上什麼加上一個疏散編組因為行動不便的人需要人家幫忙那這些人他也需要有適當的裝備跟通訊讓他知道可以及時的來幫忙"},{"start":640.481,"end":654.056,"text":"隔壁廚廳到底多少萬元嘛他坐輪椅 我有塞車子給他載照啊所以這個部分呢是不是可以院長只是兩個部會呢密切合作那幫我們來落實啊這樣的一個預防的疏散撤離是的 謝謝委員我們一定會"},{"start":655.478,"end":674.833,"text":"做好這件工作我們歷史在中央在應變中心當颱風來臨的時候做一些分組的工作報告裡面都要求在疏散撤離主張當中把所要撤離的對象確實掌握其中就真的包括剛剛部長所說的保全戶都要強烈在裡面地方政府能夠做好"},{"start":675.513,"end":700.304,"text":"這樣的工作謝謝接下來我就多談一些這次設備有關其實我們村裡防災緊急救難我們是有編列了15.85億是要幫助我們的防災協作中心以及村裡防災緊急設備在114年就有協力團隊進駐未來的115年到116年要村裡防災那是不是可以高危險的偏鄉地區優先來設置我舉例往下講往下看其實村裡誰最常來幫大家解決問題"},{"start":701.424,"end":719.722,"text":"傳理長啦 代表啦 平常時候什麼手要倒啦 都叫他去處理啦那我們發現這筆預算有協助在幫助他們充實裝備但我是覺得裝備跟設備要分開來個人的裝備 你說頭盔啦 照明燈啦 手電筒啦 它那些都有但是像青蛙裝"},{"start":721.124,"end":738.759,"text":"這次的我們常發現淹水的時候要清化妝但是清化妝不是全力幹死的大家都有的阿尊說這種個人的裝備可以優先先配合這是一種另外一種是什麼是屬於像什麼發電機緊急照明甚至動力工具油壓減這類的這類的其實配發下去不見得好為什麼"},{"start":739.46,"end":760.297,"text":"我們不經常這樣行,放在社區有時候中心就壞掉了是建議說,實施計畫的時候用一個專案的方式委託有維運廠商,有需要預警的時候就先配置就是超前部署事情沒有發生,收回來保養不用說放在社區,這樣就壞掉了請問議長是否可以支持我們在內政部長這個議員,用這個方式來接應"},{"start":762.984,"end":791.192,"text":"報告委員 這個有可能牽扯到中央地方自治權限的問題有些是地方該做的我們要求地方能夠做到 請地方做到那有些比較大型的設備問題中央可能會有必要做一個統一這個請部長答覆緊急發電機的部分其實我們要求他們強強就要能夠維修這個還是一定要配備因為你什麼時候變成孤島都不知道但是我要跟委員報告您非常經驗豐富我希望能夠加入所謂的防災社區的概念"},{"start":792.352,"end":815.732,"text":"防災設計的概念不是說只有這些裝備包括他在村裡面很多人他如果受到相關訓練的話碰到有狀況他更熟悉村裡面怎麼樣做比較好的防災整備所以我們在防災協作中心的話希望能夠配備有原來在戶籍所在地的一個替代役來協助防災協作中心然後才跟村裡面其他的相關的社團來一起合作"},{"start":816.132,"end":829.169,"text":"那再加上中央的地方如果願意把這個裝備分類管理的話我相信未來如果碰到天災會很容易可以自救救人這樣子比較好好 謝謝兩位部長接下來我繼續問院長其實這次的風災兩位部長可以請回"},{"start":830.532,"end":855.163,"text":"其實在九二一的時候我們屏東是有去埔里救災的但是我們看到這當年已經是一九九九年的事情了好我們往下看其實從九一的大地震我們看到民眾熱心捐款捐物資到了莫拉哥風災我的故鄉屏東也遭災那時候來了很多的民間志工幫我們清淤到現在這次馬臺案我們看到民間人力更加充沛還自己帶鏟子甚至我們有進步到有機具都來支援"},{"start":855.603,"end":874.401,"text":"那像這樣的情況之下我認為為了我們中央應變小組其實要好好善用我們國防部裡面我們的後備軍人的指揮後指部他其實在美式的救災我們看到現在在花蓮的現場有了校旗機關的進駐之後志工就被組織起來了"},{"start":875.562,"end":900.604,"text":"工作就順利了所以我們希望未來在這樣的中央應變當中要善用我們的後備系統讓後備的幹部可以先派駐到這些地方上來萬一有災後的救災的需求這些人就是非常好的組織者請問院長是不是願意這樣子來敦促我們的國防部跟地方政府來建置這樣的一個組織是 在這次的經驗告訴我們民間的名利非常的"},{"start":901.858,"end":920.337,"text":"龐大而且充沛但是我們認為這個還是補充性如果平時沒有組織起來的話我們沒辦法預測正規的防救災人員跟防救災的組織一定要完成起來名利的補充下來平常建立這種組織系統的聯繫把它做一些基本上的訓練也好或是做一些聯繫也好將來才有辦法運用到這個地方來"},{"start":921.017,"end":937.924,"text":"謝謝因為時間的關係最後我要提醒一下那個永久屋的經驗的一定要記取現在我們已經有發現有89戶他需要中基屋他未來土地跟房屋的所有權一定要妥善規劃請院長督促我們行政院協助地方主把這個地方完備可以嗎我們會加強跟這些89戶算是更多的人來謝謝謝謝鍾委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":336,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（15時2分）主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有衛福部的石部長、交通部的陳部長。"],["主席：石部長還有陳部長請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：院長好，兩位部長好。"],["主席：交通部部長今天沒有備詢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。院長、部長，今天這個特別預算是因應國際情勢，還要強化經濟、社會、民生、國安韌性，我特別重視民生、國安韌性，因為在我的認知當中，只要完善防救災就是提高、強化我們的民生、國安韌性，所以底下就這一次花蓮防、災來跟您請教。首先，我們回顧一下，院長，在今年8月10號的院會當中，我曾經針對8月時的風災有發生過需要用無人機送藥的事情，不知道院長你還記得嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那時候我希望能夠簡化流程，提前準備，也希望院長指示在各個需要點設立示範點，然後排除法規的限制，請問這樣一個要求，後來行政院是不是已經有落實了？"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信石部長已經在這次的堰塞湖事件當中，執行過這樣的工作。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那是不是請石部長說明一下，除了無人機送藥這件事情之外，前置的法制作為如何？我們知道無人機送藥分成兩個部分，一個是無人機，這是交通部的業務，送藥的部分涉及到醫事法、藥事法，對不對？這是不是跟我們之前在推動的所謂的通訊診療辦法有關？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，這一次在馬太鞍溪的堰塞湖災害事件的第一刻，我們就派遣了無人機團隊進駐花蓮。"],["鍾委員佳濱：後來也成功執行任務了嘛！"],["石部長崇良：後來真的有這個需求發生，那我們時間上非常快地就反映了，也讓病人能夠及時拿到藥物。基於這幾次的成功經驗，所以我們接下來大概朝三個方向，也扣合您剛剛的指教，第一個，先去盤點全國大概有這樣缺口、需要的點看有哪一些風險點，事先規劃，因為無人機送藥的操作，它必須事先規劃航線跟落地點，這個都要先選擇好，所以第一步我們會先去盤點。第二個，這個啟動的過程會有很多的跨部會合作，因此我們要建立一個平臺，讓它作業起來能夠更迅速。第三個就是您關切的法規部分能不能繼續鬆綁，我們目前是在緊急災難的情形之下可以適用，那能不能夠……"],["鍾委員佳濱：平常呢？"],["石部長崇良：對，用在偏鄉，然後在平常就可以操作，這是我們第三個會進行討論的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，院長，聽到沒有？第三個，我關心的就是，在最近，就是今天的報紙報導說首次用無人機送血，它不是災害，也不是災區。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是血液的緊急輸送很重要。所以接下來我就有一個問題，根據交通部主管的民用航空法當中的「遙控無人機管理規則」第三十三條，當時我的專案質詢有提到，第一項是說在「災害應變時」，這個沒有問題，只要應變指揮官下達指令，就可以不受既有的無人機使用規則之規定而可派遣。但第二項是說在「災害以外之緊急狀況發生」的時候，仍然由所謂的「現場指揮官或權責機關指定之現場負責人員」……你想像一個情況，假如登山客爬山，不是災害喔！被蛇咬了，馬上要運送蛇毒血清去，那請問這個時候的無人機派遣，現場誰是指揮官、誰是權責機關指定的人員？是不是要請衛福部跟交通部預先就第二項相關人員的法制，先把它配備好，平常就可以送包括醫材跟醫藥，院長？或部長來，部長請。"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，這個大概分成兩段，一個是適用緊急醫療法。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["石部長崇良：我們緊急醫療法也有航空器……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我講的是無人機的部分。"],["石部長崇良：對，我們來修正這個……討論這個法規，讓它在……剛剛這個情境是緊急醫療的需要。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["石部長崇良：緊急送藥，或者是解毒劑等等的，有時效性的，這是緊急醫療。第二個是比較常規性的，偏遠地區送藥。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對。"],["石部長崇良：讓民眾更方便，這兩個不同的法規我們會來研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。那院長，我要說的就是，現在根據無人機管理規則，大概只有限定到緊急狀況。但是我們看到，以小琉球為例，離島地區如果要輸送磚塊、水泥，我一定用船運，但是不可能為了運一些醫材、藥材，我派一艘船太貴了，反而無人機送過去是平常的經濟便利行為。是不是可以請院長指示交通部跟衛福部，就醫療機構平常在特殊地區用無人機這種比較經濟便利的行為也納入平常的法規範？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員，我們現在技術上可及，而且整個產業的提升、能力也到了，我認為在災害的地方、災害的時間、偏遠的地區，緊急醫療的作為上面，一定要納入未來我們可以服務的對象。甚至如果我們有更廣泛的範圍要去處理的話，我們全力來研議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝院長。接下來我要請顧部長也一塊來，院長，現在我們有一個「軍民資通作業環境韌性與設備效能提升計畫」，在這次的預算當中。我們看到了國防部有一個叫做便攜型衛星訊號接收器，那我們很好奇，這個計畫當中包含了便攜型衛星訊號接收器，它是不是可以隨時部署，甚至可以部署到一般緊急派駐的民間家裡去？部長，您可以看那個畫面，這是不是國防部目前這個裝備的樣貌？"],["顧部長立雄：我們這個便攜型的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是個人可攜型的嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以部署得很迅速嘛！那我們往下看，現在、未來的指揮，不只是企業管理或是國軍的指揮管理都要扁平化，尤其是防災救災的通報。我們看到這一次的情況，中央應變指揮中心已經下達了要求地方要進行疏散、要進行撤離，但是層層轉發，如果地方中間有任何環節鬆脫，就沒有辦法貫徹中央對地方的要求，是不是這樣子？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那現在我們看一下，過去在臺灣經常好發的災害類型是颱風，就颱風其實都有個預警期，過去我們在地方政府的執政經驗，都會有一個預警的時期，而且常常說超前部署。您知道嗎？超前部署很多都是用國軍裡面的後備幹部，就是後備指揮部裡面的後備幹部，他們會提早到各鄉鎮去擔任聯絡官的角色。我們是想請教一下院長，未來如果是災害的預防式部署，國軍後備幹部下去的時候，有沒有攜帶這種便利型通訊裝備的可能，以便萬一中央掌握到緊急狀況時，可以直接透由這些後備幹部，在各村里就幫忙把訊息傳遞到必要人員手上？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們這些多重的通訊手段不管是在天災或複合性災難發生的時候都可以來做，包括無線電、衛星手機、微波和一些中繼鏈路，都可以來進行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以院長，像這樣一個強化國安韌性的器材，其實如果可以在平常就建置起來的話，災害發生時就可以用。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，從歷次災害的經驗看來，如果我們有充實更多的裝備、訓練更完善的人員的話，就可以把災害造成的損失再降低，所以現在在相關的特別預算裡面，就是希望能夠更加充實必須要有的、類似這樣的裝備，我們儘量把它補起來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝國防部顧部長。接下來要請內政部的劉部長，同時再請衛福部石部長上台。","在這次的特別預算當中，我看到衛福部有一個強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫，過去在高屏地區，我和劉部長算是隔壁的「厝邊」，你在高雄市當副市長的時候，我在屏東縣當副縣長。我們都知道南部經常遇到颱風，所以我們會做一些預防式的疏散，這個時候不只是靠戶政系統，因為戶政資料是固定的，但是要知道在籍人口是否都在那裡，還要透過社政。什麼是社政？就是有沒有在領一些老人的關懷服務。還要透過衛政，就是有沒有臥病在床、罹患慢性病需要送藥的，甚至還要透過警政，才會知道有沒有流動人口住在裡面。所以是不是請劉部長說明一下，像這樣的一個強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫雖然是衛福部主政，但是遇到像這一次的災害，需要緊急撤離的時候，這些保全名單是不是更有助於內政部在要求的時候，可以掌握到必須緊急疏散撤離的人員？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我想你的經驗非常豐富，通常我們就是把它稱為「保全戶」，對於保全戶，只要汛期開始啟動，我們都會要求縣市地方政府或是鄉鎮公所，包括從民政、戶政或者是社政、警政系統去確定一下他是否在籍，或者是有沒有在現場，以及他現在的身心狀況，如果開始發布相關警報的時候，就會啟動預防性的疏散撤離，就是幾乎會在汛期之前的前一天或前24小時、48小時，先做異地撤離或是做其他安全地方的安置。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。","院長，劉部長跟石部長兩個要合作。這個計畫雖然是衛福部的，但是如果平常演練還要加上什麼？要加上一個疏散編組。因為行動不便的人需要人家幫忙，這些人也需要有適當的裝備和通訊，讓他們知道可以及時幫忙隔壁鄰居搬運，譬如坐輪椅的人，要有人開車才能把他載走，所以這個部分院長是不是可以指示兩個部會密切合作，幫我們來落實這樣的預防性疏散撤離？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，謝謝委員，我們一定會做好這件工作。歷次災害、颱風來臨時，我們在災害應變中心的分組工作報告裡面，都要求在疏散撤離組當中，確實掌握所要撤離的對象，其中就真的包括剛剛部長所說的保全戶，都要詳列在裡面，讓地方政府能夠做好這樣的工作。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。","接下來我就多談一些和這次設備有關的問題。其實村里防災緊急救難編列了15.85億元，是要幫助防災協作中心及村里防災緊急設備的建置，在114年就有協力防災團隊進駐，未來的115年到116年要做村里防災，請問高危險及偏鄉地區是不是可以優先設置？舉例來講，在村里當中，誰最常來幫大家解決問題？就是村里長和代表。平常發生樹木倒塌，都是叫他們去處理。我們發現這筆預算有要協助他們充實裝備，但我是覺得，裝備和設備要分開來，個人裝備譬如頭盔、照明燈、手電筒，他們都有，但是像青蛙裝呢？這次颱風淹水的時候就需要青蛙裝，而青蛙裝並不是村里幹事大家都有的，如果這種個人的裝備可以優先配發，這是一種。另外一種是什麼？是屬於像發電機、緊急照明，甚至動力工具、油壓剪這一類的，其實這類的配發下去不見得好，為什麼？如果不常用，放在社區活動中心，壞都壞掉了，建議實施計畫的時候，用一個專案的方式委託，有維運廠商，有需要預警的時候就先配置，就是超前部署。事情沒有發生，收回來保養，不用放在社區，這樣變成壞掉就不好了。請問院長，是不是可以指示我們的內政部長，這個計畫用這個方式來執行？"],["劉部長世芳：感謝……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個有可能牽扯到中央、地方自治權限的問題，有些是地方該做的，我們要求地方能夠做到，請地方做到，有些比較大型的設備問題，中央可能有必要做一個統一，這個請部長答復。"],["劉部長世芳：對，像緊急發電機的部分，其實我們要求他們常常就要能夠維修，這個還是一定要配備，因為你什麼時候變成孤島都不知道，但是我要跟委員報告，您經驗非常豐富，我希望能夠加入所謂防災社區的概念，防災社區的概念不是只有這些裝備，包括在村裡面很多人，他如果受到相關訓練，碰到有狀況，他更熟悉村裡面怎麼樣做比較好的防災整備，所以我們希望在防災協作中心能夠配備有原來戶籍所在地的替代役，來協助防災協作中心，然後才跟村裡面其他相關的社團一起合作，再加上中央跟地方如果願意把裝備分類管理的話，我相信未來如果碰到天災，會很容易可以自救救人，這樣子比較好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝兩位部長，接下來我繼續問院長，兩位部長可以請回。","其實在九二一的時候，我們屏東是有去埔里救災的，但是我們看到這已經是1999年的事情，其實當年從9月的大地震，我們看到民眾熱心捐款、捐物資。到了莫拉克風災，我的故鄉屏東也遭災，那時候來了很多民間志工幫我們清淤。到現在，這次馬太鞍，我們看到民間人力更加充沛，還自己帶鏟子，甚至我們進步到有機具都來支援。像這樣的情況之下，我認為為了我們中央應變小組，其實要好好善用國防部裡面後備軍人的指揮，後指部其實在每次的救災，我們看到現在在花蓮的現場，有了校級軍官的進駐之後，志工就被組織起來了，工作就順利了，所以我們希望未來在這樣的中央應變當中，要善用我們的後備系統，讓後備的幹部可以先派駐到這些地方上，萬一有災後救災的需求，這些人就是非常好的組織者。請問院長，是不是願意這樣子敦促我們的國防部跟地方政府來建置這樣的一個組織？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，這次的經驗告訴我們，民間的民力非常龐大而且充沛，但是我們認為這個還是補充性，如果平時沒有組織起來的話，我們沒辦法預測，正規的防救災人員跟防救災的組織一定要完成起來，民力的補充下來，平常建立這種組織系統的聯繫，把他們做一些基本上的訓練也好，或是做一個聯繫也好，將來才有辦法運用到這個地方來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。因為時間的關係，最後我要提醒一下，永久屋的經驗一定要記取，現在我們已經發現有89戶需要中繼屋，未來土地跟房屋的所有權一定要妥善規劃，請院長督促我們行政院協助地方政府，把這個地方完備，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會加強跟這89戶甚至更多的人聯繫，看看他們是不是願意遷移到一個安全的地方，目前還在做溝通中。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝院長。謝謝部長，沒有機會讓您發言，謝謝您。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163806","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163806","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890cc5fcf68fe4e397b704543300bdabf02399d32d779812cf3765b677a192402615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"14:47:07 - 15:02:38","影片長度":"00:15:31","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T14:47:07+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T15:02:38+08:00","duration":931,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":16.77096875,"end":18.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.762218750000002,"end":18.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":18.77909375,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22.67721875,"end":24.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.94284375,"end":24.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.97221875,"end":25.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.39409375,"end":25.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.06034375,"end":29.309093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":29.59596875,"end":30.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.629718750000002,"end":30.372218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":30.895343750000002,"end":36.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.45971875,"end":40.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.868468750000005,"end":51.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":51.78659375,"end":53.220968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.954718750000005,"end":60.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.79409375,"end":59.869718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.34221875,"end":62.56971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":62.822843750000004,"end":64.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.64534375000001,"end":64.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":65.15159375,"end":79.22534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.41096875000001,"end":82.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":83.03909375,"end":88.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":89.13096875000001,"end":92.59034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.87721875000001,"end":96.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.62346875,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":102.68159375,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.03596875000001,"end":103.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.08659375,"end":103.27221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.27221875000001,"end":103.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.28909375,"end":103.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.30596875,"end":105.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":105.70221875,"end":106.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":106.24221875,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.25909375,"end":107.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.94659375,"end":117.56534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":118.05471875,"end":121.56471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.13846875,"end":129.24284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.37784375,"end":132.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.00596875000002,"end":133.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.96784375000001,"end":137.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":137.24159375000002,"end":138.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.76034375,"end":139.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.99221875,"end":154.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.00909375,"end":140.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.57784375,"end":145.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.59471875,"end":146.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.90971875,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":157.87971875000002,"end":159.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":160.25909375,"end":160.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":160.37721875,"end":160.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":163.31346875,"end":165.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.28346875,"end":166.40159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":166.40159375000002,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.97534375,"end":170.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":171.09284375000001,"end":185.36909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.95284375,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.74971875,"end":181.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.44534375,"end":184.03596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.65596875,"end":189.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.02721875,"end":186.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.71846875,"end":192.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":190.75221875000003,"end":199.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.68846875,"end":193.70534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":199.98284375,"end":200.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.89409375000002,"end":201.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":201.75471875000002,"end":202.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":202.93596875,"end":204.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.23096875000002,"end":206.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":206.61471875,"end":213.51659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":213.95534375000003,"end":216.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.79471875000002,"end":216.45284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.89159375000003,"end":217.38096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":217.56659375,"end":220.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.75596875000002,"end":223.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":224.21534375000002,"end":225.41346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":225.49784375000002,"end":226.67909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.30346875,"end":232.48409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.42096875000001,"end":235.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":233.96909375,"end":234.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.99846875000003,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.03221875000003,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.06596875000002,"end":235.08284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.08284375000002,"end":235.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.09971875000002,"end":235.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.21784375000001,"end":236.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":235.84221875000003,"end":236.71971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.98971875,"end":250.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":238.94721875000002,"end":239.25096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":241.57971875,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.38971875000001,"end":242.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":249.86534375000002,"end":261.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.24846875000003,"end":255.72096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.77159375000002,"end":258.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.37034375,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":261.27284375,"end":314.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.63096875,"end":265.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.93846875,"end":269.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":271.48221875,"end":272.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":315.22221875,"end":321.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":320.82471875000005,"end":334.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":321.87096875000003,"end":322.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.86471875,"end":335.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":335.11784375,"end":339.69096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":337.53096875,"end":341.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":341.17596875000004,"end":342.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":343.42034375000003,"end":343.80846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.70721875000004,"end":345.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":344.77034375,"end":361.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":361.62846875,"end":366.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":367.70346875,"end":368.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.73284375000003,"end":369.23909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.27284375000005,"end":380.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":377.64284375,"end":379.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":380.79846875000004,"end":381.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":382.43534375,"end":389.13471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":389.50596875,"end":389.99534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":390.13034375,"end":391.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":393.84284375000004,"end":395.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.36159375,"end":400.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":404.38971875000004,"end":415.27409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":413.41784375000003,"end":420.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":415.47659375,"end":415.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":415.66221875,"end":415.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":420.50534375,"end":427.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.11284375,"end":421.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":423.07034375,"end":423.69471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":423.69471875000005,"end":423.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":425.83784375000005,"end":427.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.47471875,"end":427.49159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":427.49159375000005,"end":427.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.50846875,"end":427.52534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":427.52534375000005,"end":427.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":427.57596875,"end":427.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.01471875000004,"end":432.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.77409375,"end":428.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":430.73159375,"end":439.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.04346875000005,"end":433.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.36346875000004,"end":438.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":438.96659375,"end":439.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":439.79346875000005,"end":445.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":445.56471875000005,"end":451.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":452.31471875000005,"end":456.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":456.22971875,"end":459.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":459.97596875000005,"end":463.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":463.35096875000005,"end":469.57784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":470.15159375,"end":474.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":474.35346875000005,"end":480.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":480.66471875,"end":482.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.12846875,"end":485.03534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.74409375000005,"end":485.76096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.76096875,"end":485.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.79471875,"end":486.01409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":486.58784375000005,"end":496.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":490.04721875,"end":490.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":494.82284375,"end":496.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.52721875000003,"end":496.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":496.56096875000003,"end":505.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":496.59471875,"end":496.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":505.70721875000004,"end":511.51221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":507.52971875000003,"end":507.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":511.66409375,"end":513.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":513.85784375,"end":514.4653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":515.1572187500001,"end":515.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":515.3428437499999,"end":516.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":515.37659375,"end":517.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":518.04284375,"end":518.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":520.99596875,"end":533.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":533.12909375,"end":533.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":534.3272187499999,"end":558.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":558.6609687499999,"end":560.5847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.36971875,"end":563.4365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.5378437500001,"end":582.5222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":581.49284375,"end":582.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.85971875,"end":582.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.3659687500001,"end":585.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":583.9397187500001,"end":584.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.12096875,"end":589.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":589.76159375,"end":591.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":591.8203437500001,"end":594.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.66784375,"end":610.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.87221875,"end":610.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":610.88909375,"end":617.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":617.5378437500001,"end":621.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":621.87471875,"end":628.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.4440937500001,"end":624.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":628.4053437499999,"end":636.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.2522187500001,"end":636.2859687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":636.2859687499999,"end":636.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.9778437500001,"end":653.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":654.46034375,"end":657.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":658.57784375,"end":660.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":661.34534375,"end":667.7747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":668.38221875,"end":690.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":683.5190937500001,"end":683.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":686.4890937499999,"end":687.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.8303437500001,"end":698.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":698.2509687500001,"end":700.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":699.1453437499999,"end":699.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":700.3603437500001,"end":700.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":701.18721875,"end":706.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":705.0347187500001,"end":706.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":706.75596875,"end":719.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":720.0365937500001,"end":721.3022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":721.9097187500001,"end":722.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":721.99409375,"end":726.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":724.37346875,"end":726.2803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.2803437500002,"end":734.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":727.42784375,"end":728.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":733.7222187500001,"end":743.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":742.9697187500001,"end":743.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":743.5603437500001,"end":749.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.6784687500001,"end":744.1172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":744.87659375,"end":745.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":747.17159375,"end":748.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.3484687499999,"end":760.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.2834687500001,"end":764.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":764.43471875,"end":770.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.50971875,"end":771.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":771.8428437500002,"end":780.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":780.43221875,"end":780.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":781.6809687500001,"end":787.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":787.67159375,"end":789.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.0847187500001,"end":794.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":794.7253437500001,"end":801.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":801.9309687500001,"end":808.3772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":808.76534375,"end":811.0772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":811.68471875,"end":812.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":813.38909375,"end":816.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":816.03846875,"end":817.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":817.87784375,"end":827.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":824.6953437500001,"end":825.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":827.96909375,"end":828.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":828.0365937500001,"end":828.4922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":828.4922187500001,"end":840.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":828.54284375,"end":828.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":840.79409375,"end":844.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":844.74284375,"end":846.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":846.3459687500001,"end":853.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":853.8215937500001,"end":854.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.02409375,"end":854.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.44596875,"end":854.4797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":854.4797187500001,"end":859.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.4965937500001,"end":856.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":860.21721875,"end":864.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.9422187500002,"end":872.2153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":870.5615937500002,"end":871.3715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":872.2153437500001,"end":884.8547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":874.81409375,"end":875.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":875.92784375,"end":877.66596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":882.6440937500001,"end":883.1840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":885.2934687500001,"end":890.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":891.70596875,"end":897.3759687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":897.9328437500001,"end":901.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":902.2022187500002,"end":905.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":906.74159375,"end":907.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":911.0278437500001,"end":911.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":912.52971875,"end":913.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":913.4240937500001,"end":914.5715937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":914.2678437500001,"end":915.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":915.3647187500001,"end":920.3259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":921.25409375,"end":921.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":921.96284375,"end":922.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":922.8740937500002,"end":924.3928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":924.0047187500002,"end":928.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":927.7509687500001,"end":929.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":929.0334687500001,"end":931.4128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":930.50159375,"end":931.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":931.76721875,"end":932.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":17.143,"end":40.033,"text":"謝謝副院長 一樣邀請我們卓院長卓院長請備詢經濟部也可以先陪同一下幫忙一下經濟部部長我就先講 院長這一次對美關稅談判最大的戰場其實一開始都一直聚焦在半導體業我們一開始是認為對等關稅要全面的談好"},{"start":41.139,"end":52.701,"text":"那請問一下院長這個年初台積電宣佈要對在投資1000億美金的一個投資設廠那目前我們的投審會收到了申請嗎"},{"start":56.32,"end":76.961,"text":"你說額外的那個部分就是650加1000的那個1000所以這1000還沒有正式的申請所以短期內應該還不會過去那我想請教一下因為其實剛剛部長也有一再的重申最近新聞講的這個晶片五五分對不對這個議題我們重申我們沒有答應這件事情也沒有討論這件事情"},{"start":77.381,"end":99.493,"text":"那我請教一下我們有沒有稍微的統計或計算過如果我們的台積電年初獎的那1000億投資進去了加原本的650億那它在美國的投資量能它的那個年生產量在我們以高階的這個5奈米以下的一個產量來講的話那未來它會跟台灣的比重會是多少你們有沒有統計過"},{"start":103.071,"end":120.968,"text":"這個牽涉到他要幾年才能完成這個我們現在台灣已經確定台灣已經確定要建了現在已經有一些已經確定在建了還沒生產了這些量能有多少那未來如果說1650億美金在美國落地之後會有多少我想這應該大概都可以算得出來有沒有統計過"},{"start":122.416,"end":123.177,"text":"5奈米以下喔"},{"start":138.892,"end":153.601,"text":"全部的 不是不是低階的我們不用看嘛我們只在乎高階的嘛但是先進製程在國內也會持續的我就只在乎先進製程在台灣的比例台灣跟美國的比例因為院長一再重申55是不會嘛但實際上你們有沒有算過"},{"start":155.149,"end":170.166,"text":"剛剛部長已經談過了我們國內也會增加對 那你就可以算你們可以算對不對它的時程還沒有定所以沒有辦法在這個而且我們在這裡也不要算這麼清楚你們計算一下如果1650億的美金在美國落地投資之後"},{"start":171.067,"end":200.633,"text":"那台灣未來規劃的產能有多少我們希望先進製程台美雙邊的比例有多少可以計算出來讓我們國人安心那也證實了這個院長你講的沒有五十五十這件事情數字一攤開來大家都幸福嗎報告委員那個台積電是在美國大概是五座嘛台灣都是十座以上實際算這邊也算不清楚啦好不好我們事後算算清楚讓我們國人知道一下這個比例大概會是多少好不好這應該算得出來吧"},{"start":203.384,"end":226.491,"text":"謝謝另外這次的五十五十大家很關心五十五十吳院長說不可能對不對這是我們不可能接受的一個條件你說我們沒有討論過也不會答應也不可能答應如果說美國真的有挑起這個議題的話我們能夠接受的最低的限度以高階親民來講的話你們能夠容忍多少"},{"start":227.472,"end":248.613,"text":"這是談判的過程跟談判裡面的細節我不宜在這裡跟委員所以你們只能答應說不會五十但是五十多少以下你們不知道我們不會去討論幾比幾的問題是廠商有訂單這是美方的想法就是譬如說台積電他確定那邊有訂單他也願意去投資政府的角色是如何協助他"},{"start":250.394,"end":271.252,"text":"這個就是一個客觀的公開數據嘛提早讓我們的國人知道嘛好沒關係 如果說院長認為這個是談判機密的話不願意提前講那我們至少知道說你的底線是50絕對不會放但是比50還多遠這一點就你們後續可能可能才會同樣的我們會以國家的利益跟產業的利益為優先來談判的好沒關係 院長沒辦法說也沒關係我不會強求謝謝"},{"start":273.133,"end":297.959,"text":"接下來就是我們這次的特別預算當然很多的委員提到說可能明目是不是我們實際相符我想很多人討論過了如果說其實我是把它想做站在你們角度看這可以當作一個擴大內需任何在國內的投資對經濟一定都有幫助如果說在這樣子的角度再看的話對國內的經濟一定有幫助我可不可以跟"},{"start":299.02,"end":314.181,"text":"請院長能夠承諾我們所有這五千多億的預算無論在未來的採購或者是投資是不是都能夠保證讓我們台灣我們本國的廠商來承攬這我們有辦法做到"},{"start":316.546,"end":330.742,"text":"對 比如說我們支持產業方案每一分錢都是用在我們企業界的補助就是國內採購包括你一些可能一些經濟部的那當然就是在國內嘛我想不只經濟部包括可能國防部 海巡這些設備的採購有沒有辦法優先的來選擇國內的廠商"},{"start":334.926,"end":359.136,"text":"能不能保障 因為這才有到促進經濟的一個效果吧我們能不能做到這樣的承諾國安部的確是在地承諾這跟你經濟部沒關係啊 我知道院長 這是不是我們的方向你能不能做這樣的承諾我們5500億我們盡力把這些投資的項目讓我們國內的廠商賺因為前幾天我們的總統也說了嘛希望讓造船業多一些利潤嘛那當然我們希望不只造船業嘛我們5500億的一個"},{"start":362.868,"end":378.279,"text":"這個經費全數都能夠讓我們國內的廠商來賺這樣子的一個承諾或者目標你能不能承諾跟委員報告我想國防部的部分因為占到1130而已所以我想可以跟委員承諾我們這一次特別預算都會用在國內的直通跟營造謝謝國防部所以一定會擴大內需的產能謝謝國防部"},{"start":382.489,"end":397.918,"text":"那我不曉得其他的部分海巡其實也不少嘛或者其他部會其實一些農業部這些一定是國內啦這個我了解啦那海巡也答應了嘛對不對那個海委會嘛對所以我們原則上這5500億應該都是用在我們國內嘛"},{"start":404.597,"end":418.068,"text":"各位委員報告好就是說除非那個裝備我們必須是非常靈敏度非常高的而且在全世界國內生產不來的是輔導不來的否則原則上都是輔導國內的廠商優先的來做"},{"start":420.723,"end":437.48,"text":"我們會努力朝這個方向因為擴大內需也是我們其中一個我想這應該也是我們行政院的目標吧當然是我們對於本土的產業實力的來致當然是用盡各種方法原則上都希望能夠讓我們國家的廠商來賺原則上當然是如此謝謝我們的院長"},{"start":439.844,"end":469.344,"text":"那既然這樣子的投資都是國內的廠商來承攬促進經濟的話那我們的主計總數大概有預測明年的一個經濟的成長率大概是2.81那我想這個評估啦這個評估應該是不包含這個5500億的這個特別的預算應該是不包含嘛因為預算還沒通過那我們有沒有評估過因為我每次在普發現金或者是發消費券的時候都會評估說對國內的經濟成長率的幫助有多少或者是說對GDP的"},{"start":470.285,"end":484.681,"text":"我們有沒有評估過這5500億因為普發一萬的部分應該有評估過好像佔GDP的0.5%那其餘的部分對我們國家的一個經濟的成長有多少的幫助這一點我不曉得我們行政院有沒有算過"},{"start":486.956,"end":514.293,"text":"特別預算通過之後我會請主計總署再詳細說明有沒有算過他要更精細的算那應該他目前都有做整年度的沒有算就趕快算嘛有 我們有初估啦那國會會他是評估是大概是0.415的一個成長百分點那我們評估的話大概0.65百分點好 那就是我們就希望說錢花下去我們知道效果嘛所以說這個我們主計總署的原則上的預估大概是0.45的一個比例"},{"start":515.162,"end":521.025,"text":"到時候大家再來一起檢視我們的成效另外我再請問一下比較細的就是我們的農業部這次有編列了190億的預算"},{"start":535.28,"end":562.532,"text":"原則上大概180多億都是對國內的團體機關獎補助那農業部會編列這麼高的預算其實我當然開心的嘛我的選區內大概有七個農運會的一個團體啦我當然是感謝但是我想問的是農業部編這樣的預算的原因是不是我們已經打算開放美國的農業產品進來我們才會編列這麼高的一個預算來做因應你們是不是做這樣的一個準備我們在編這樣的一個預算的時候是針對"},{"start":563.774,"end":565.11,"text":"那時候的出口的"},{"start":565.836,"end":594.596,"text":"那個稅額是32%然後後來降到10%又提升到20%在這樣的一個Range之內我們也評估了我們出口的品項有哪一些受到影響那這些影響裡面怎麼樣做金融的支持怎麼樣做產業的提升所以這190是現況嗎對 是現在目前的一個情況如果說未來對美的這個農業農業產品有多一些開放的話我們農業部應該會有另外的措施我可以這樣理解嗎"},{"start":595.714,"end":610.226,"text":"我想我們現在目前在處理的其實出口美國也會跟我們國內的市場會有一些互動所以未來如果說關稅最後確認了以後那我們會看實際的情況之下我們再去做相關的預算的調整"},{"start":610.899,"end":635.445,"text":"好 所以是191是依照現況那如果說多開放的話會再評估要不要增加 這樣是這樣的理解對 如果說夠的話我們就不會那不夠的話我想我們會循程序來我們會看農業的這個直接的衝擊無論是進口或出口的業者受到什麼樣的衝擊農業部都會很詳實的去把它評估出來那麼我們會從這個預算當中率先來執行好 謝謝院長 謝謝餘部長"},{"start":636.565,"end":653.149,"text":"接下來裡面也是比較細一點的就是我們因應美國關稅分散風險是大家最近在講的多增加東協或者是增加歐盟的一個出口的一個比例所以我們大概有編了10億的經費是強化雙邊經貿關係韌性其中10億裡面當然每一項大概我寫的"},{"start":658.65,"end":665.46,"text":"我覺得寫的有點籠統啦但至少有個方向出來但其中有4億的經費他大概是編所謂的這個"},{"start":668.444,"end":697.506,"text":"出訪 或是邀請國外的團體來台灣這樣的一個經費那 抱歉喔 站在行政院的立場抱歉 站在我們立法院的立場我們會擔心這四億元的一個經費會不會變成一個綁裝的一個旅遊團我們怎麼樣能夠確保這四億的經費能夠有實際的效益消敏我們立法院或者是民眾的疑慮我們那個是辦國內展覽比如說工具機展邀請國外的買主來台灣是 是這個"},{"start":699.586,"end":721.026,"text":"訪團呢訪團也是一樣是工協會提出來我們設台灣館因為這件事情是在編預算而已嘛對不對那後續怎麼執行那當然各方有各界的一個想像那我想後續的資訊的公開是非常重要的或者是每一次的出訪或者是每一次的邀請它的成效是多少"},{"start":722.735,"end":742.635,"text":"他那個都是補助廠商的有沒有辦法來做一個完整的揭露補助每一個工協會去辦什麼展覽或者是我們台灣辦什麼 買什麼客物來因為這私營的預算比很多部會加起來都還多啦好不好 所以我們才會特別看這筆預算那未來是不是部長也承諾"},{"start":743.836,"end":763.904,"text":"這些預算未來都會有一些政府公開的一些程序讓大家了解它的功能是什麼我們海外參展除了大的廠商之外他有能力設他自己的館之外中小企業沒辦法所以我們弄一個比較大的台灣館讓中小企業可以在那邊展覽他的產品這個錢就是要用在這個地方"},{"start":764.772,"end":780.614,"text":"好沒關係你們只要願意公開後續做一個資訊充分的揭露的話那我想後續大家一起來檢驗好不好謝謝那接下來還有一點就是我們這一次的特別預算有特別明定就是這次的特別預算不受預算法的62條跟63條的一個限制對不對"},{"start":781.801,"end":800.477,"text":"也就是可以留用其實我覺得這個是立法院對於行政院的一個高度的尊重但是我們在裡面的預算也看到了一些可能媒體的一些廣告費用院長應該也知道這是我們立法院這一屆非常關注的項目最後審議的結果我們還不知道如果有一些預算被砍的話"},{"start":801.96,"end":817.11,"text":"那我想院長你會不會去用這個不適用62跟63條的不得流用的規定直接去把它補回來因為你還有一個200億的扣打還是說你會尊重立法院如果說我們真的要砍什麼預算你要流進來你會再尊重我們立法院"},{"start":817.87,"end":839.926,"text":"後續的200億我們一直強調需要的時候我們才會提出來我們不會這樣不珍惜國家的資源因為立法院如果提出來的時候有法律上的限制或准許我們怎樣使用原本63條的規定是被砍過的預算不能留用嘛指定項目有刪除的不能不得留用嘛但是這一次我們把這個條拿掉了你們可是可以留用的就算我們砍了你們還是可以用只要科目還在的話"},{"start":840.811,"end":863.683,"text":"但我想確認的是未來我們如果說真的有做一些刪減的話你們會不會尊重立法院如果說真的要在特別的項目增加的話來做一些知會立法院不管是知會立法院也好還是學立法院的同意尊重的事情你們會不會願意做我第一個會要求我們這200億的預備的預算是需要的時候我們提出來不需要的時候我們寧願就把它那另外就是我也拜託"},{"start":865.403,"end":889.618,"text":"大院裡面各委員會能夠合理的去審查預算真的需要的多留下來 多留下來我想6263這條放寬是立法院對行政院的一個尊重我們會珍惜這樣的空白授權我們也希望說未來在做一些流用的時候行政院也務必要尊重立法院我們會珍惜這樣的空白授權 我們尊重那還有一點時間啦 這個媒體朋友請我幫忙問的啦今天立法院內政部長麻煩一下"},{"start":892.775,"end":920.16,"text":"今天立法院好像有很多媒體同仁說進來的時候有一些不往沒有的一些刑事局的同仁有在立法院做一些進來我們立法院或者是做一些檢查那可不可以簡單說明一下狀況有這樣的狀況嗎 剛剛講的什麼狀況刑事局除了平常的保安人員之外刑事局的同仁也有來我們立法院"},{"start":921.294,"end":930.834,"text":"沒有耶沒有嗎我沒有這樣的訊息因為是有些媒體想要跟您請問一下如果沒有的話我沒有這樣的訊息那我們後續再做一些確認好不好好 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":191,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（14時47分）謝謝副院長。一樣邀請卓院長。"],["主席：卓院長，請備詢。"],["廖委員先翔：經濟部也可以先陪同，幫忙一下。"],["主席：經濟部部長。"],["廖委員先翔：我就先講了，院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：這一次我們的對美關稅談判，最大的戰場其實一開始都一直聚焦在半導體業，沒錯嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一開始是對等關稅要全面談好。"],["廖委員先翔：請問院長，年初台積電宣布要對美再投資1,000億美金投資設廠，目前我們的投審會收到申請了嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：你說額外的那個部分嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：對，就是650加1,000的那個1,000。"],["龔部長明鑫：還沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：所以這1,000還沒有正式的申請？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["廖委員先翔：所以短期內應該還不會過去？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["廖委員先翔：我想請教一下，其實剛剛部長也有一再重申，有關最近新聞講的晶片五五分這個議題，我們重申我們沒有答應這件事情，也沒有討論這件事情。那我請教一下，我們有沒有稍微統計或計算過，如果我們的台積電將年初講的那1,000億投資進去了，加原本的650億，他們在美國的投資量能、年生產量，我們以高階5奈米以下的產量來講的話，未來它跟臺灣的比重會是多少，你們有沒有統計過？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個牽涉到要幾年才能完成這個廠……"],["廖委員先翔：對，現在臺灣已經確定"],["卓院長榮泰：現在還沒有開始進到……"],["廖委員先翔：臺灣已經確定要建了，現在有一些已經確定在建了，還沒生產的這些量能有多少？未來如果說1,650億美金在美國落地之後會有多少？我想這應該大概都可以算得出來吧？有沒有統計過？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們那時候有大概粗估，台積電公布以後，將來在美國設廠，我記得應該到2030年還是三幾年的時候，大概還有80%對20%這樣的一個情況。"],["廖委員先翔：5奈米以下喔！"],["龔部長明鑫：全部的，不是……"],["廖委員先翔：低階的我們不用看嘛！我們只在乎高階的嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：但是先進製程在國內也會持續的有新增加的……"],["廖委員先翔：對，我就只在乎先進製程在臺灣和美國的比例，因為院長一再重申五十、五十不會嘛！但實際上你們有沒有算過？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長已經談過了，我們國內也會增加，對方的……"],["廖委員先翔：對，那你就可以算，你們可以算，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，它的時程還沒有定，所以沒有辦法在這個……"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們去計算一下，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：而且我們在這裡也不要算這麼清楚。"],["廖委員先翔：你們計算一下，如果1,650億美金在美國落地投資之後，臺灣未來規劃的產能有多少？我們希望先進製程在臺美雙邊的比例有多少，可以計算出來，讓國人安心。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，絕對不會超過……"],["廖委員先翔：那也證實了院長講的，沒有50、50這件事情，數字一攤開，大家都信服嘛！可不可以？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，台積電在美國大概是5座，臺灣大概是10座以上。"],["廖委員先翔：實際算這邊也算不清楚啦！好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：這是晶圓廠。"],["廖委員先翔：我們事後算，算清楚，讓國人知道一下這個比例大概會是多少，好不好？這應該算得出來吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以啊、可以啊！"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝。另外，大家很關心這次的50、50，，副院長說不可能嘛！對不對？這是我們不可能接受的一個條件。"],["卓院長榮泰：我是說我們沒有……"],["廖委員先翔：沒有討論過。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有討論過，也不會答應。"],["廖委員先翔：也不可能答應。如果美國真的有挑起這個議題的話，我們能夠接受的最低的限度，以高階晶片來講，你們能夠容忍多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是談判的過程跟細節，我不宜在這裡跟委員公開說明。"],["廖委員先翔：所以你們只能答應不會50，但是五十多少以下，你們不知道？不敢講？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們不會去討論幾比幾的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會討論。"],["龔部長明鑫：是廠商有這樣需求，有訂單……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是美方的想法。"],["龔部長明鑫：比如台積電確定那邊有訂單，它也願意去投資，政府的角色是如何協助它能夠順利，而且在那邊可以賺錢……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係啦！這個就是一個客觀的公開數據嘛！提早讓國人知道嘛！好，沒關係，如果院長認為這個是談判機密不願意提前講……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以我給委員的數字也是……"],["廖委員先翔：我們至少知道你的底線是50，絕對不會放，但是比50還多遠，就這一點你們後續可能才會……"],["卓院長榮泰：同樣的我們會以國家的利益跟產業的利益為優先，來作為談判的原則。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，院長沒辦法說也沒關係，我不會強求。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝、謝謝、謝謝。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝。接下來就是這次的特別預算，很多委員有提到名目是不是與實際相符？我想這個部分很多人討論過了，其實我是站在你們的角度來看，把它當作擴大內需，任何在國內的投資，對經濟一定都有幫助。可不可以請院長能夠承諾，針對這五千多億的預算，無論是在未來的採購或者是投資，是不是都能保證讓我們臺灣、我們本國的廠商來承攬？這部分有沒有辦法做到？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，比如我們的支持產業方案，每一分錢都是用在我們企業界的補助。"],["廖委員先翔：就是國內採購，可能包括一些經濟部的，當然就是在國內嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["廖委員先翔：我想不只經濟部，可能國防部、海巡等的設備採購，有沒有辦法優先選擇國內的廠商？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，據我瞭解……"],["廖委員先翔：能不能保障？因為這樣才有促進經濟的效果吧？我們能不能做到這樣的承諾？"],["龔部長明鑫：據我瞭解，國防部的確是在地採購。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有，這跟你經濟部沒關係啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：我知道，只是在部長還沒上來之前……"],["廖委員先翔：院長，這是不是我們的方向？你能不能做這樣的承諾？針對5,500億，我們盡力把這些投資的項目讓國內的廠商賺，因為前幾天總統也說了，希望讓造船業多一些利潤，當然我們希望不只造船業嘛！5,500億的經費全數都能夠讓國內的廠商來賺，這樣子的承諾或者目標，你能不能承諾？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，國防部的部分因為占到1,132億，我可以跟委員承諾，這次特別預算都會用在國內的資通跟營造，所以一定會擴大內需的產能。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝國防部。我不曉得其他的部分，海巡其實也不少，或者其他部會，農業部這些一定是國內，這個我瞭解。海巡也答應了嘛！對不對？海委會嘛！所以原則上這5,500億應該都是用在我們國內！"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，除非那個裝備必須是靈敏度非常高的，而且在全世界……"],["廖委員先翔：國內生產不來的，是輔導不來的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["廖委員先翔：否則原則上都是輔導國內的廠商優先來作為目標。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會努力朝這個方向，因為擴大內需也是我們其中一個……"],["廖委員先翔：我想這應該也是行政院的目標吧？是嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然是，我們對於本土產業的扶植，當然是用盡各種方法。"],["廖委員先翔：這5,500億原則上希望都能夠讓我們國家的廠商來賺，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：原則上當然是如此。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的關心。"],["廖委員先翔：既然這樣子的投資，都是由國內的廠商來承攬以促進經濟的話，主計總處預測明年的經濟成長率大概是2.81，我想這個評估應該是不包含5,500億的特別預算，因為預算還沒通過。那有沒有評估過，因為每次在普發現金或者是發消費券的時候，都會評估對國內的經濟成長率的幫助有多少，或者是說對GDP的挹注有多少，我們有沒有評估過這5,500億？因為普發1萬的部分應該有評估過，好像占GDP的0.5%嘛，其餘部分對我們國家的經濟成長有多少幫助，這一點不曉得行政院有沒有算過？"],["卓院長榮泰：特別預算通過之後，我會請主計總處再詳細說明。"],["廖委員先翔：有沒有算過？"],["卓院長榮泰：他要更精細地算，應該目前都有做整年度的推估。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有算就趕快算嘛。"],["陳主計長淑姿：有，我們有粗估啦，國發會評估大概是0.415%的成長，我們評估的話大概0.65%。"],["廖委員先翔：好，我們希望說錢花下去讓我們知道效果嘛，所以說主計總處原則上預估大概是0.45%的比例？"],["卓院長榮泰：主計總處比較高。"],["陳主計長淑姿：國發會是0.415%，我們是0.65%。"],["廖委員先翔：好，到時候大家再來一起檢視成效。","另外我再請問一下比較細的，就是農業部這次編列了190億的預算。"],["卓院長榮泰：180億。"],["廖委員先翔：190億，原則上大概一百八十多億都是對國內團體機關獎補助，農業部編列這麼高的預算，其實我當然開心的嘛，我的選區內有大概有7個農漁會的團體，我當然是感謝，但是我想問的是農業部編這樣的預算原因，是不是我們已經打算開放美國的農漁產品進來，才會編列這麼高的預算來因應，你們是不是做這樣的準備？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，我們在編這樣的一個預算的時候，是針對那時候的出口稅額32%，後來降到10%，又提升到20%，在這樣的range之內，我們也評估了出口品項有哪些受到影響，而針對這些影響怎麼樣做金融支持、怎麼樣做產業的提升。"],["廖委員先翔：所以這190億是現況嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：對，是現在目前的一個情況。"],["廖委員先翔：如果說未來對美的農漁產品有多一些開放的話，農業部應該會有另外的措施，我可以這樣理解嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們目前在處理的，其實出口美國，也會跟我們國內的市場有一些互動，所以未來如果說關稅最後確認了以後，我們會看實際情況，再去做相關的預算調整。"],["廖委員先翔：好，所以這190億是依照現況，如果說有多開放的話，會再評估要不要增加，是這樣的理解？"],["陳部長駿季：對，如果說夠的話，我們就不會；不夠的話，我想我們會循程序來。"],["廖委員先翔：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會看農漁業的直接衝擊，無論是進口或出口的業者受到什麼樣的衝擊，農業部都會很詳實地去評估出來，我們會從這個預算當中率先來執行。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝院長，謝謝部長。","接下來也是比較細一點的，就是我們因應美國關稅嘛，分散風險是大家最近在講的，多增加東協或者是增加歐盟的出口比例，所以我們大概有編了10億的經費是強化雙邊經貿關係韌性，其中10億裡面，當然每一項我覺得寫得有點籠統啦，但至少有個方向出來，但其中有4億的經費大概是編所謂的出訪或者是邀請國外團體來臺灣的經費，抱歉，站在立法院的立場，我們會擔心這4億元的經費會不會變成一個綁樁的旅遊團？我們怎麼樣能夠確保這4億的經費有實際的效益，消弭我們立法院或者是民眾的疑慮？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們那個是辦國內展覽，譬如說工具機展是邀請國外的買主來臺灣。"],["廖委員先翔：是。"],["龔部長明鑫：是這個，所以不是什麼綁樁。"],["廖委員先翔：訪團呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：訪團也是一樣，是公協會提出來，我們設臺灣館。"],["卓院長榮泰：到國外去做展覽。"],["廖委員先翔：就是因為這件事正在編預算而已，對不對？後續怎麼執行，當然有各方各界的一個想像，我想後續的資訊公開是非常重要的，或者是每一次的出訪，或者是每一次的邀請，成效是多少？"],["龔部長明鑫：那個都是補助廠商的，而且這個廠商是公協會。"],["廖委員先翔：經濟部有沒有辦法做一個完整的揭露？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以啊。"],["廖委員先翔：會有完整的揭露？"],["龔部長明鑫：補助每一個公協會去辦什麼展覽，或者是我們臺灣辦什麼，什麼客戶來臺，這都是可以公開的。"],["廖委員先翔：因為這4億的預算比很多部會加起來都還多啦，好不好？所以我們才會特別看這筆預算，是不是部長也承諾這些預算未來都會有政府公開的一些程序，讓大家了解它的功能是什麼。"],["龔部長明鑫：因為我們海外參展，除了大的廠商有能力設自己的館之外，中小企業沒辦法，所以我們弄一個比較大的臺灣館，讓中小企業可以在那邊展覽它的產品，這些錢就是要用在這個地方。"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，只要你們願意公開，後續充分的揭露資訊，我想後續大家可以一起來檢驗，謝謝。","接下來還有一點就是，我們這一次有特別明定這次的特別預算不受預算法第六十二條跟第六十三條的限制，也就是可以流用，其實我覺得這是立法院對於行政院的高度尊重，但是我們在預算裡面也看到了一些媒體的廣告費用，院長應該也知道這是我們立法院這一屆非常關注的項目，最後審議的結果我們還不知道，但如果有一些預算被砍，院長，你會不會用不適用第六十二條跟第六十三條不得流用的規定，直接去把它補回來，因為你還有一個200億的額度，還是你會尊重立法院，如果我們真的要砍什麼預算，你要流進來，你會尊重我們立法院？"],["卓院長榮泰：後續的200億，我們一直強調需要的時候我們才會提出來，我們不會這樣不珍惜國家的資源，如果提出來的時候有法律上的限制，或准許我們怎樣使用……"],["廖委員先翔：原本第六十三條的規定是被砍過的預算不能流用，指定項目有刪除的不得流用，但是這一次我們把這個規定拿掉了，就算我們砍了，你們還是可以用，只要科目還在的話，我想確認的是未來我們如果真的有做一些刪減的話，你們會不會尊重立法院？如果真的要在特別的項目增加的話，不管是知會立法院也好，還是取得立法院的同意，你們會不會這樣做？"],["卓院長榮泰：我第一個希望……"],["廖委員先翔：尊重的事情，你們會不會願意做？"],["卓院長榮泰：我第一個會要求這200億預備的預算是需要的時候再提出來，不需要的時候，我們寧願把它……另外就是我也拜託大院各委員會能夠合理的去審查預算，真的需要的多留下來。"],["廖委員先翔：院長，我想第六十二條和第六十三條放寬是立法院對行政院的一個尊重。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會珍惜這樣的空白授權。"],["廖委員先翔：我們尊重，那也希望未來在做一些流用的時候，行政院也務必要尊重立法院。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會珍惜這樣的空白授權，我們尊重。"],["廖委員先翔：那還有一點時間，媒體朋友請我幫忙問一個問題，麻煩一下內政部劉部長。今天立法院有很多媒體同仁說，進來的時候好像看到一些過往沒有的刑事局同仁，進來我們立法院做一些檢查，那可不可以簡單說明一下狀況？"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：有這樣的狀況嗎？剛剛講的。"],["劉部長世芳：什麼狀況？"],["廖委員先翔：除了平常的保安人員之外，刑事局的同仁也有來我們立法院。"],["劉部長世芳：沒有欸。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：我沒有這樣的訊息。"],["廖委員先翔：因為有些媒體想要請問您一下，如果沒有的話……"],["劉部長世芳：我沒有這樣的訊息。"],["廖委員先翔：那我們後續再做一些確認。"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163805","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163805","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8901dd1bfb678ceab64704543300bdabf02cfe8ed51afeb83d5f61d29bd310f8b835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"14:31:54 - 14:46:59","影片長度":"00:15:05","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T14:31:54+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T14:46:59+08:00","duration":905,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.98284375,"end":13.547843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.547843750000002,"end":14.914718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.71096875,"end":23.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.52096875,"end":24.465968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.05659375,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.515968750000003,"end":30.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.54096875,"end":32.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.612218750000004,"end":34.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.46846875,"end":41.712218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.01596875,"end":42.72471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.28159375,"end":44.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.104093750000004,"end":45.829718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.947843750000004,"end":48.81659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.35659375,"end":49.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.74034375,"end":51.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.174718750000004,"end":54.807218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.07721875,"end":57.659093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.67159375000001,"end":59.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.88659375,"end":61.135343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.557218750000004,"end":62.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.109718750000006,"end":64.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.42159375,"end":67.81784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.22284375000001,"end":74.98971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.58034375000001,"end":80.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.87096875,"end":79.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.07346875,"end":79.09034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.72721875,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.14034375,"end":87.81471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.08471875000001,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.02096875000001,"end":92.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.74221875,"end":98.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.54721875,"end":101.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.27659375,"end":105.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.29284375,"end":108.45284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.77346875,"end":115.84409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.21534375,"end":120.55221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.94034375000001,"end":122.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.21846875000001,"end":125.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.83409375000001,"end":130.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.37346875,"end":135.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.31784375,"end":137.19096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.49471875,"end":138.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.80659375000002,"end":140.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.59534375,"end":148.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.00346875,"end":150.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.38721875000002,"end":152.00721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.34909375,"end":151.60221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.04096875000002,"end":154.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.70284375,"end":157.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.18346875,"end":160.39409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.10284375,"end":163.76909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.92096875000001,"end":167.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.95471875,"end":164.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.49409375000002,"end":175.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.59846875000002,"end":178.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":179.36159375,"end":181.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.14596875,"end":184.98096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.23409375,"end":193.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.95846875,"end":197.63721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.87346875,"end":201.45096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.65346875,"end":204.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.42096875000001,"end":208.15034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.28534375,"end":208.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.31909375,"end":208.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.55534375000002,"end":208.57221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.65659375,"end":209.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.34409375,"end":221.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.29221875000002,"end":218.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.38909375,"end":219.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.15659375,"end":223.62471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.92846875,"end":224.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.95784375000002,"end":227.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.25284375,"end":227.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.40471875,"end":227.50596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.65784375,"end":229.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.42971875,"end":231.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.28159375,"end":235.92659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.61846875,"end":238.40721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.79534375000003,"end":243.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.73971875,"end":245.00534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.44409375,"end":246.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.06409375,"end":247.36784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.63784375,"end":250.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.31659375,"end":253.18971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.78034375000001,"end":256.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.90659375,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.29034375000003,"end":262.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.51721875000004,"end":264.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.33971875000003,"end":266.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.63909375000003,"end":267.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.52909375,"end":271.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.29221875,"end":275.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.07659375000003,"end":277.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.26596875,"end":278.83971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.88596875,"end":282.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.83909375,"end":288.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.45909375,"end":284.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.18409375000005,"end":290.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.31034375,"end":292.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.89659375,"end":301.95846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.70096875,"end":304.75971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.92846875000004,"end":305.19846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.92409375,"end":307.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.32034375,"end":312.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.09596875,"end":314.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.53034375000004,"end":315.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.72846875000005,"end":315.89721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.15034375000005,"end":316.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.43284375,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.50409375000004,"end":320.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.44471875,"end":328.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.18221875,"end":329.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.31721875,"end":328.43534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.20721875000004,"end":333.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.73409375,"end":335.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.75909375000003,"end":338.89784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.97784375000003,"end":340.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.19284375,"end":341.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.45846875,"end":344.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.58471875000004,"end":349.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.74846875000003,"end":351.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.38096875,"end":357.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":357.59534375000004,"end":364.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.18909375000004,"end":368.59784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.34034375000005,"end":370.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.21346875,"end":372.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.85034375000004,"end":383.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.51534375,"end":389.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.24846875000003,"end":391.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.12159375000005,"end":393.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.75409375000004,"end":395.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.03659375,"end":397.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.53846875000005,"end":401.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.30159375000005,"end":402.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.19596875,"end":403.00596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.03534375000004,"end":406.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.32596875,"end":408.86159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.54909375000005,"end":411.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.37596875,"end":412.69221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.50221875000005,"end":418.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.79659375,"end":424.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.47096875000005,"end":425.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.09534375000004,"end":425.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.61846875000003,"end":427.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.35659375,"end":428.57159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.59284375000004,"end":429.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.02721875000003,"end":434.44409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.66846875000005,"end":429.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.05159375000005,"end":438.05534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.94596875,"end":436.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.35909375000006,"end":442.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.18534375,"end":447.21846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.45471875000004,"end":448.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.82159375000003,"end":449.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.47971875,"end":452.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":452.46659375,"end":453.68159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.96846875000006,"end":456.95534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.03971875,"end":459.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.63846875,"end":460.17846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.76909375,"end":462.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.77721875000003,"end":465.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.42221875,"end":469.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.72971875,"end":472.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.81784375,"end":476.69909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.25596875,"end":477.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":478.48784375,"end":498.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.19346875,"end":504.17159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.28971875,"end":507.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":507.61409375000005,"end":509.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.29721875,"end":511.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.34346875000006,"end":518.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.86971875,"end":521.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":521.83971875,"end":533.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.5634687500001,"end":536.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.9934687500001,"end":543.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.3172187499999,"end":544.35096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.38471875,"end":546.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.17346875,"end":546.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.71346875,"end":547.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.59096875,"end":547.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":547.74284375,"end":556.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":547.7765937500001,"end":548.3334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":549.9197187500001,"end":552.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":553.0247187500001,"end":554.5603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.48846875,"end":556.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.9228437500001,"end":558.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.74971875,"end":560.4834687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":559.7747187500001,"end":561.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.0403437500001,"end":566.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.9340937500001,"end":566.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":566.6597187500001,"end":568.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.3259687500001,"end":578.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.09659375,"end":586.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":587.50034375,"end":596.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.52846875,"end":610.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.02409375,"end":614.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.64784375,"end":616.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.62659375,"end":618.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":616.8797187499999,"end":617.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.48284375,"end":622.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":622.70159375,"end":627.2409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":627.8484687499999,"end":638.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":638.04096875,"end":640.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":640.6228437500001,"end":642.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.08659375,"end":643.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.21721875,"end":648.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":649.83659375,"end":652.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.2790937500001,"end":673.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.69784375,"end":683.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.54846875,"end":686.50596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.9109687499999,"end":688.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":688.76721875,"end":689.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.74596875,"end":690.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.2140937500001,"end":691.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.3447187500001,"end":695.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.66909375,"end":696.6140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":697.1372187500001,"end":697.6940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":698.48721875,"end":699.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":700.32659375,"end":702.3515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":702.67221875,"end":704.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.78159375,"end":710.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.2109687500001,"end":711.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":711.97034375,"end":713.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":713.4553437500001,"end":714.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":714.8559687500001,"end":715.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.5772187500002,"end":719.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.4753437500001,"end":720.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":721.67346875,"end":722.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":723.20909375,"end":726.4153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":726.6853437500001,"end":739.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":740.3203437500001,"end":742.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":743.05409375,"end":743.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":744.9440937500001,"end":747.2390937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.6272187500001,"end":749.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":749.82096875,"end":750.2934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":751.23846875,"end":751.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":752.31846875,"end":755.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":756.2165937500001,"end":756.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":758.3428437500002,"end":762.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.9328437500001,"end":763.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":764.18159375,"end":768.40034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.5522187500001,"end":769.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":769.5815937500001,"end":774.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":774.96471875,"end":782.8115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.86221875,"end":783.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":784.0772187500002,"end":785.79846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":784.09409375,"end":784.6003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":785.8828437500001,"end":787.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":788.5490937500001,"end":799.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":795.7547187500002,"end":796.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.6697187500001,"end":801.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.26846875,"end":806.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.6515937500001,"end":810.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.6003437500001,"end":812.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.98409375,"end":815.7178437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.34221875,"end":817.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":818.4853437500001,"end":818.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.56534375,"end":822.34971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":823.07534375,"end":823.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":823.63221875,"end":829.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.79159375,"end":830.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":831.4622187500001,"end":832.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":832.47471875,"end":833.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":833.90909375,"end":836.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.2547187500002,"end":839.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":840.06846875,"end":841.80659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":842.31284375,"end":845.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":845.6540937500001,"end":846.2109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.71721875,"end":850.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.4040937500001,"end":866.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.38909375,"end":868.8572187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.3972187500001,"end":874.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":875.2865937500001,"end":880.7709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":881.0747187500001,"end":891.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":891.11534375,"end":901.8647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":902.1515937500001,"end":904.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":904.24409375,"end":905.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":905.9484687500001,"end":905.9653437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":11.581,"end":33.887,"text":"謝謝副院長 我們請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備詢參議員好院長 因為我在立法院今年邁入第18年我覺得有些還是要講實話而且"},{"start":35.472,"end":64.346,"text":"在整個行政團隊這麼用心編了這個預算特別條例特別預算如果用兩個字草率我覺得這樣是抹煞了所有人的努力而且我們也支持任何一個立委你對預算任何一筆預算有意見有質疑你直接可以發文問我們的行政單位"},{"start":65.438,"end":90.22,"text":"而且我們在下個禮拜三就要開始審查3跟4就要審查我們的任性特別預算這個在現場我們就可以提出那如果你認為在文字上不清楚因為你要這麼短的時間確實像教育部200億你要很清楚去說明"},{"start":91.092,"end":120.336,"text":"也比較難那麼我們請委員可以直接發文給各部會針對各部會所編列的預算一五一十請他們說明清楚那我也要拜託我們院長如果我們各部會真的收到這樣的一個立委辦公室的相關文件我們全部一次把它說清楚講明白"},{"start":120.947,"end":138.037,"text":"好的可以我也要求這麼做而且未來如果大家委員有這樣的意見我希望我們各部位未來在編預算的過程當中盡量把它寫的詳細一點那也許他的篇幅會很大會增加委員的負擔我覺得也沒有關係讓大家充分了解我想以後大家要多做這個準備工作院長你說的就對了即使"},{"start":141.876,"end":166.974,"text":"國後都不管 既然他需要了解我們就講給他了解否則他用了兩個字草率對我們來講很受傷耶大家在前線拼得這麼辛苦為什麼會有這麼多的感觸因為在這一次風災院長謝謝你們有到第一線可是因為我們的服務員真的太大"},{"start":168.587,"end":192.787,"text":"所以大家一時之間會覺得這裡有被關心到那裡沒有被關心到所以有很多不一樣的一個訊息產生所以這就是我們在第一線其實我們在7月7號到了現場的時候一直到所有我們中央部會都有下來的時候我們才慢慢退開"},{"start":194.048,"end":220.616,"text":"所以在那個時候我們知道問題在哪裡我們也謝謝院長有接受我們的建議有請我們各部會的公共工程部門下到第一線去協助有些低收入戶中低收入戶邊緣戶都第一時間把他們完成了這個房子的修建謝謝你們但是我必須說"},{"start":222.216,"end":246.448,"text":"我們的路還很長院長你親自有去現場看到我們的路還很長從農業從漁業從我們房子的重建復建其實還有產業我們經濟部的中小企業還有相關的廠房其實他們現在都急待幫忙"},{"start":247.697,"end":270.775,"text":"所以真的這條路非常的漫長所以我們拜託院長持續給我們更多的關心會的 應該的 會的給我們更多的預算沒有預算我們根本走不出任何一條康莊大道所以這個拜託院長那麼今天的任性的部分其實我比較遺憾的是"},{"start":272.753,"end":288.673,"text":"當時候我們在任性我們有把台電這個部分有放進去可是非常遺憾的最後是被刪掉的兩次第一次是一千億的挹注第二次是兩百億的加強任性"},{"start":290.073,"end":310.445,"text":"這是被刪掉的這是我比較遺憾的所以我們單純只能靠著丹納斯颱風跟728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例這裡面的加強電網的部分目前就只能靠這一條而且在這個部分我們從哪幾個區塊我們總共102億"},{"start":316.266,"end":338.432,"text":"其中八十億是遷改供電線路就是我們的地下化然後還有輸配電架空線路因為有些地方是不能地下化的但是我們要加強它的穩固性起碼不要風一來真的 當時候仗著這麼多的電感"},{"start":339.974,"end":358.642,"text":"然後一次倒塌整個沿海地帶所以現在這個是我們現在必須做的重中之重所以我們在這一次我們的風災特別條例特別預算裡面我們有從台1線在台南台1線台17線台19線"},{"start":360.831,"end":388.737,"text":"台20線南21線173線道這幾條主要的所謂的主幹道因為我們現在從主幹道一直做進來主幹道如果沒做的話這次就是全部倒塌的都是主幹道才會增加了修復的時間還有困難度所以我們這一次我們總共在特別預算風災特別預算15億台南15億"},{"start":390.277,"end":417.705,"text":"可是這15億你知道嗎我們做的只有部分只有部分然後我們原本期待再韌性還可以再加強一批可是被刪掉了那麼在我們明年度的預算我整個問了一遍院長你知道在這個部分如果依照電纜地下化在明年度的預算只有多少嗎"},{"start":420.208,"end":434.268,"text":"應該是沒有特別特別做電纜地下化的預算明年度的預算沒有沒有三億跟過去一樣沒有特別所以我們在風災的特別條例當中編了這些錢就是因為我看到"},{"start":435.134,"end":459.965,"text":"三千多個電感 三個高壓電塔也倒了那這個完全是一個風災帶來的新的多的而且嚴重的傷害跟原來的年度預算是沒有辦法把它涵蓋的所以編了這個預算那我們也認為不夠當初如果編多一點也許大家另外一個討論但是我們是何時來編沒有想到我們在任性裡面我們希望至少你給他多一點的錢讓他來補結果還是被刪掉那我想"},{"start":460.785,"end":477.338,"text":"我們除了這102億之外啊明年我們想辦法來做先期的只要他不是易淹水的不是土質鬆軟的不是土質下限的地方該做的我們首先至少先來規劃院長這個很重要我為什麼今天這麼樣的沉痛因為"},{"start":478.547,"end":498.252,"text":"沒有電纜地消耗這一次其實因為風災我們所有台電所有的同仁們都很辛苦第一時間調了所有全國的工班都到了我們的災區但是我們當時候就是臨時性而且以最快的速度讓大家都有電"},{"start":499.252,"end":518.113,"text":"可是我們很擔心像現在每次跟我們講說颱風要來了你知道嗎我們都到每一家廟宇走到哪裡拜到哪裡拜託不要再讓我們的颱風造成我們台南在這樣子的一個災區二次的傷害"},{"start":518.934,"end":535.918,"text":"因為他們還沒有完全復原所以我今天會特別拜託院長的事我們這一次因為特別條例風災特別條例看到了我們台南這12個災區的一個狀況所以呢我們給了我們15億從這幾個主幹線可是真的不夠真的不夠那剛剛院長也說了"},{"start":548.254,"end":565.721,"text":"對 沒有 我是說我們台南台南是15億 全部是80億對 全部80億 我們台南是10億對 已經比例比較高了對 已經比例比較高但是你看我們比例比較高 還是不夠"},{"start":566.821,"end":586.607,"text":"所以我們期待的是我們的任性被刪掉了我們的工部門的年度預算還是不能來做這樣的一個編列因為幾不進去因為這個東西一定是要用特別預算所以我們希望我們一定要想一個辦法"},{"start":587.56,"end":613.986,"text":"要怎麼樣在這個韌性電網當中韌性電網絕對不是只有我們現在在談的這幾樣說加強輸變電線路變壓器還有建置變電所線路電網措施離岸風電併網還有強化各地供電負載智慧電表換裝不是只有這幾個"},{"start":615.677,"end":640.138,"text":"真的 我們的韌性電碗其實是有一個很重要的長期性原來我們規劃超高壓的部分那個本來就5000多億有比較細的就是102億這個也有中間這一塊是更需要的所以我們編在韌性那個地方但是非常可惜的是在特別條例的時候就已經被刪除了"},{"start":640.678,"end":647.027,"text":"所以我們一定要思考說到底我們這個被任性刪掉的這200億我們該怎麼辦"},{"start":649.901,"end":672.876,"text":"或許他們沒有在災區他們不知道或許他們沒有看到每一支電桿每一支電桿這樣瞬間倒閉的那種恐怖或許他們沒有在第一線看到災民沒有電沒有水的一個狀況或許他們沒有辦法感同身受可是我們不行"},{"start":673.777,"end":697.391,"text":"我們一定要很清楚這是一個全國性的問題這次發生在台南下一次要發生在哪裡我們不知道因為現在是極端氣候沒有人可以跟天去比因為我們只有做到萬全的準備來等待就像"},{"start":698.51,"end":722.322,"text":"拜總統常講的我們要做萬全的準備我們要事先做預防我們要事先做好讓大家可以有提醒的效果那麼發生的時候才知道我們該怎麼辦從中央到地方都是如此因為第一線的"},{"start":723.237,"end":738.948,"text":"公務人員 地方政府 中央政府如果沒有清楚知道發生問題我們該有什麼SOP那請問我要怎麼去協助我們的災民去做相關的一個配合"},{"start":740.393,"end":756.335,"text":"所以我覺得這是現實性的問題沒有人敢跟天去比賽我們只有靠自己所以院長我們這被刪的200億任性的部分怎麼辦"},{"start":758.553,"end":782.459,"text":"好報告委員這個部分既然是在旦那時颱風之後我們發覺實際的需要雖然現在目前的預算看不出來有他除了這筆預算之外除了這81億之外102億之外我們來想辦法未來的年度把它優先把它列進來我也請部長能夠把這個列為重點怎麼樣剛剛說過不是一煙水的不是地層下陷不是土質鬆軟只要是迎風面的地方我們都應該全面來檢討優先來做"},{"start":784.259,"end":810.595,"text":"以後的預算把它表現出來而且院長我們就直接我們不要設一個說我未來要加強點我們就直接跟他講我們就要做電纜地下化這個管線的一個調整所以如果誰敢擋那以後他不要編嘛他的縣市不要編嘛他的縣市不要嘛因為他認為不重要嘛但我們認為重要啊"},{"start":811.85,"end":822.193,"text":"來自災區經過這樣一路一路走過來災民很辛苦所以院長這個部分請把它點名"},{"start":824.206,"end":850.717,"text":"點名我們今天就是要針對這個部分去做好萬全的準備因為我們不能再容忍有一次這麼樣的一個迎風面的颱風然後把所有的電線桿都吹倒了今天發生在中南部下次難道不會發生在中北部嗎一定誰都預測不了所以我們就要把預算編好做好"},{"start":852.855,"end":865.63,"text":"這樣子才能做到讓人民安心讓人民有感才知道我們的錢花到哪裡所以院長你記不記得你去看了曾文希排水17年"},{"start":868.255,"end":890.861,"text":"17年耶你看到的是最後一里路但是我們努力了17年我們不希望我們不希望這當中我們送了多少次便當我們淹了多少次水到了這一次才沒有我們一樣在電纜的部分電纜地下化我們一定要有決心要做到好做到滿好不好"},{"start":891.161,"end":902.617,"text":"好的 謝謝委員 我們朝這個方向會全力的努力啦這是請部長一定要未來的年度把它列為一個重點我們逐步的來最優先地方來開始實施做好 謝謝 謝謝院長 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":137,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（14時32分）謝謝副院長。我們請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，因為我在立法院今年已經邁入第十八年，我覺得有些還是要講實話，而且在整個行政團隊這麼用心編了這個預算，是特別條例的特別預算，如果用兩個字「草率」，我覺得這樣是抹煞了所有人的努力。我們支持任何一個立委對預算中的任何一筆預算有意見、有質疑時，可以直接發文去詢問各行政單位，而且我們在下個禮拜三、四就要開始審查韌性特別預算了，這些相關的疑問在現場就可以提出，如果是認為在文字上不清楚，因為要在這麼短的時間，確實……像教育部的200億，要很清楚去說明也比較難，那麼我們請委員可以直接發文給各部會，針對各部會所編列的預算，一五一十的請他們說明清楚。不過我也要拜託我們院長，如果各部會真的收到立委辦公室的相關文件，我們全部一次把它說清楚講明白。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，可以，我會要求這麼做，而且未來如果委員有這樣的意見，我希望我們各部會未來在編預算的過程當中，儘量把它寫得詳細一點，也許它的篇幅會很大，會增加委員的負擔，我覺得這樣也沒有關係，讓大家充分了解，我想以後大家要多做這個準備工作。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，你說的就對了，即使多厚都不管，既然他需要了解，我們就講給他了解，否則他用了兩個字「草率」，對我們來講很受傷耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：大家在前線拚的這麼辛苦，為什麼我會有這麼多的感觸？因為這一次的風災，院長，謝謝你們有到第一線……"],["卓院長榮泰：應該的。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是因為我們的幅員真的太大了，所以大家一時之間會覺得這裡有被關心到、那裡沒有被關心到，有很多不一樣的訊息產生，所以這就是我們在第一線……其實我們在7月7號就到了現場，但一直到所有中央部會都有下來的時候，我們才慢慢退開，所以在那個時候我們知道問題在哪裡，我們也謝謝院長有接受我們的建議，有請各部會的公共工程部門下到第一線去協助，有些低收入戶、中低收入戶、邊緣戶，都在第一時間幫他們完成了房子的修建，謝謝你們。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，應該的。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是我必須說，我們的路還很長。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，你有親自去現場看到，我們的路還很長，從農業、從漁業、從我們房子的重建及復建，還有產業，我們經濟部的中小企業，還有相關的廠房，其實他們現在都亟待幫忙，這條路真的非常的漫長，所以我們拜託院長持續給我們更多的關心……"],["卓院長榮泰：會的，應該的，會的。"],["陳委員亭妃：給我們更多的預算，沒有預算，我們根本走不出任何一條康莊大道，所以這個要拜託院長。","有關今天韌性預算的部分，其實我比較遺憾的是，當時候我們在韌性中有把台電的部分放進去，可是非常遺憾的，最後是被刪掉了。"],["龔部長明鑫：兩次，第一次是1,000億的挹注，第二次是200億的加強韌性。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，這是被刪掉的，這是我比較遺憾的。所以我們單純只能靠著丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別條例裡面加強電網的部分，目前就只能靠這一條，而且在這個部分，我們有幾個區塊？我們總共是102億，其中80億是遷改供電線路，就是我們的地下化，然後還有輸配電架空線路，因為有些地方是不能地下化的，但是我們要加強它的穩固性，起碼不要風一來，真的，當時這麼多的電桿一次倒塌，整個沿海地帶，所以這個是我們現在必須做的重中之重。我們在這一次的風災特別條例、特別預算裡面，我們從台1線，在臺南的台1線、台17線、台19線、台20線、南21線、173縣道，這幾條主要的所謂的主幹道，因為我們現在要從主幹道一直做進來嘛，主幹道如果沒做的話，這次就是因為全部倒塌的都是主幹道，才會增加了修復的時間及困難度，所以這一次我們總共在風災特別預算中編列15億，臺南15億，可是你知道嗎，這15億做的只有部分，只有部分，然後我們原本期待在韌性預算中還可以再加強一批，可是被刪掉了。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：在我們明年度的預算，我整個問了一遍。院長，你知道在這個部分，如果依照電纜地下化，明年度的預算只有多少嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該是沒有特別做電纜地下化的預算，明年度的預算。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有！沒有啊！3億，就跟過去一樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，應該沒有特別把它拉出來，所以我們在風災特別條例當中編了這些錢，就是因為我看到三千多根的電桿都倒了，三個高壓電塔也倒了，這個完全是因為風災帶來新的、多的而且是嚴重的傷害，原來的年度預算是沒有辦法把它涵蓋的，所以編了這個預算。我們也認為不夠，當初如果編多一點，也許大家另外再討論，但是我們是覈實來編，沒有想到在韌性預算裡面，我們希望至少能給它多一點的錢讓他們來補，結果還是被刪掉。我想我們除了這102億之外，明年我們想辦法來做先期的，只要不是易淹水的、不是土質鬆軟的、不是土質下陷的地方，該做的，我們至少先來規劃。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，這個很重要，我為什麼今天這麼樣的沉痛？因為沒有電纜地下化，這一次其實因為風災，我們台電的所有同仁們都很辛苦，第一時間調了全國所有工班都到我們災區，但是我們當時候就是臨時性，以最快的速度讓大家都有電，可是我們很擔心，像現在每次跟我們講說颱風又要來了，你知道嗎？我們都到每一家廟宇，走到哪裡拜到哪裡，拜託不要再讓颱風造成我們臺南這樣的災區二次的傷害，因為他們還沒有完全復原。我今天會特別拜託院長的是，這一次風災特別條例，因為看到了我們臺南這12個災區的狀況，所以給了我們15億從這幾個主幹線，可是真的不夠，真的不夠，那剛剛院長也說了……"],["龔部長明鑫：是，因為總共只有80億。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，沒有，我是說我們臺南，臺南是15億……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，臺南，我知道。"],["陳委員亭妃：全部是80億。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，對……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，全部80億，我們臺南是15億。"],["龔部長明鑫：那已經是編比較多的了。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，已經比例比較高了……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為它是災區，對。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，比例已經比較高了，但是你看我們的比例比較高，還是不夠。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們期待的是韌性部分的預算被刪掉了，我們公部門的年度預算還是不能來做這部分的編列，因為擠不進去。這個東西一定要用特別預算，所以我們希望一定要想一個辦法，要怎麼樣在這個韌性電網當中，韌性電網絕對不是只有我們現在在談的這幾樣，包括加強輸變電線路、變壓器；建置變電所線路、電網措施；離岸風電併網；還有強化各地供電負載；智慧電表換裝，不是只有這幾個。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：真的，我們的韌性電網其實是有一個很重要的長期性的目標。"],["龔部長明鑫：原來我們的規劃是超高壓的部分，那個本來就五千多億，比較細的就是102億這個也有，那中間這一塊是更需要的，所以我們編在韌性那個地方，但是非常可惜的是在特別條例的時候就已經被刪除。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們一定要思考，到底我們韌性預算被刪掉的這200億該怎麼辦？或許他們沒有在災區，他們不知道，或許他們沒有看到每一支電桿、每一支電桿這樣瞬間倒地的那種恐怖，或許他們沒有在第一線看到災民沒有電、沒有水的狀況，或許他們沒有辦法感同身受，可是我們不行。我們一定要很清楚，這是一個全國性的問題，這次發生在臺南，下一次要發生在哪裡，我們不知道。因為現在是極端氣候，沒有人可以跟天去比，我們只有做到萬全的準備來等待。就像賴總統常常講的，我們要做萬全的準備，我們要事先預防，我們要事先做好讓大家可以有提醒的效果，那麼事情發生的時候才知道我們該怎麼辦。","從中央到地方都是如此，因為第一線的公務人員、地方政府、中央政府，如果沒有清楚知道發生問題時我們該有什麼SOP，那請問，我們要怎麼去協助災民去做相關的配合？所以，我覺得這是現實性的問題，沒有人敢跟天去比賽，我們只有靠自己。所以，院長，我們這被刪的200億韌性的部分怎麼辦？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個部分既然在丹娜絲颱風之後我們發覺實際的需要，雖然目前的預算看不出來有它，除了這筆預算之外，除了這80億之外、102億之外，我們來想辦法，在未來的年度把它優先列進來。我也請部長能夠把這部分列為重點。我剛剛說過，不是易淹水的、不是地層下陷、不是土質鬆軟，只要是迎風面的地方，我們都應該全面檢討，優先來做，我們在以後的預算把它表現出來。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我們不要設一個未來要加強的地方，我們就直接講要做電纜地下化管線的調整。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以，如果誰敢擋，以後他的縣市不要編嘛！他的縣市不要嘛！因為他認為不重要，但我們認為重要啊！來自災區，經過這樣一路走過來，災民很辛苦。所以，院長，這個部分請把它點明。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["陳委員亭妃：點明我們今年就是要針對這個部分去做好萬全的準備，因為我們不能再容忍有一次這麼樣一個迎風面的颱風，然後把所有的電線桿都吹倒了。今天發生在中南部，下次難道不會發生在中北部嗎？一定！誰都預測不了。所以我們就把預算編好、做好，這樣子才能做到讓人民安心、讓人民有感，才知道我們的錢花在哪裡！","院長，你記不記得你去看了曾文溪排水，17年！17年！你看到的是最後一哩路，但是我們努力了17年，我們不希望……這當中我們送了多少次便當，我們淹了多少次水，到了這一次才沒有！我們一樣在電纜的部分……針對電纜地下化，我們一定要有決心，要做到好、做到滿，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員，我朝這個方向會全力努力。請部長一定要在未來年度把它列為一個重點，我們逐步從最優先的地方開始實施去做。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，謝謝，謝謝院長，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163804","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163804","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8902e9d7710f0e70bc0704543300bdabf02cfe8ed51afeb83d5ef82c2ad75f039eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"14:16:18 - 14:31:48","影片長度":"00:15:30","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T14:16:18+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T14:31:48+08:00","duration":930,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.004093750000003,"end":12.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.636593750000003,"end":14.222843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.74471875,"end":22.829093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.829093750000002,"end":23.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.86284375,"end":86.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.766593750000006,"end":44.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.06784375000001,"end":89.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.17721875000001,"end":91.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.79721875,"end":93.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.02471875,"end":98.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.37409375,"end":102.36096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.47909375,"end":103.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.22159375000001,"end":106.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.25471875000001,"end":109.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.88721875,"end":110.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.78159375000001,"end":112.46909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.50284375000001,"end":113.36346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.70096875,"end":115.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.43909375000001,"end":126.00284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.00284375000001,"end":131.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.94284375,"end":137.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.35971875,"end":139.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.55784375000002,"end":138.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.99221875,"end":142.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.26221875000002,"end":195.39284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.97409375,"end":149.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.78034375000001,"end":173.01659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.46034375000002,"end":239.01471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.43659375000001,"end":275.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.76846875,"end":280.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.11784375,"end":283.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.59846875,"end":285.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.69096875,"end":286.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.22659375,"end":290.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.10784375000003,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.72784375000003,"end":300.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.74346875000003,"end":303.52784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.06784375,"end":306.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.21096875,"end":307.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.66221875,"end":316.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.63971875000004,"end":360.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.83534375000005,"end":340.16346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.10971875,"end":363.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.16034375000004,"end":360.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.76784375,"end":360.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.99971875,"end":362.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.53534375000004,"end":365.44221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.02471875000003,"end":369.01971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.29409375,"end":377.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.64284375,"end":384.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.27034375000005,"end":445.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.65659375,"end":398.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.84346875,"end":417.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.26096875,"end":448.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.56409375000004,"end":465.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.44346875,"end":472.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.06721875000005,"end":471.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.29034375000003,"end":475.29846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":475.75409375000004,"end":475.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.09159375,"end":479.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.56346875,"end":481.74471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.31846875,"end":483.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.36034375,"end":525.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.2947187500001,"end":531.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":531.67784375,"end":540.0815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.9084687500001,"end":545.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.90346875,"end":583.0959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.13909375,"end":550.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.2353437500001,"end":583.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.0747187500001,"end":590.9934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.17909375,"end":596.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.4272187500001,"end":598.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.2453437500001,"end":605.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.46034375,"end":601.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":601.4897187500001,"end":603.00846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.3034687500001,"end":606.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":605.5903437500001,"end":622.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":610.01159375,"end":615.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.2078437499999,"end":626.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":623.7309687500001,"end":624.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.24971875,"end":630.9365937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":630.9028437500001,"end":638.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.44596875,"end":642.3272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.63096875,"end":647.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":647.69346875,"end":703.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.7890937500001,"end":657.4809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":658.29096875,"end":658.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.24159375,"end":705.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":706.6884687500001,"end":724.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":724.4240937500001,"end":738.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":735.44346875,"end":736.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.2153437500001,"end":780.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":748.3022187500001,"end":752.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":767.26971875,"end":767.3034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.3034687500001,"end":767.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":777.5803437500001,"end":784.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.1828437500001,"end":787.8403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":784.7522187500001,"end":784.8872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.9753437500001,"end":858.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.02971875,"end":794.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":859.33971875,"end":862.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":862.88346875,"end":863.7609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":863.7609687500001,"end":867.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.35534375,"end":926.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":895.60409375,"end":895.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":895.62096875,"end":896.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.8484687500002,"end":900.1772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":902.10096875,"end":905.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":913.5590937500001,"end":913.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":925.87784375,"end":927.3797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.3797187500002,"end":927.4640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":927.95346875,"end":929.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":930.0459687500002,"end":930.51846875}],"whisperx":[{"start":10.549,"end":11.976,"text":"謝謝主席這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":25.103,"end":44.534,"text":"今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率"},{"start":46.116,"end":62.376,"text":"強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理"},{"start":63.337,"end":86.637,"text":"不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论"},{"start":88.183,"end":114.887,"text":"曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在"},{"start":115.727,"end":139.202,"text":"這個月內 剛剛委員提過 王委員提過我們希望在這個月內 他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民 產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的 我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的"},{"start":140.246,"end":164.396,"text":"對的關稅 也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%"},{"start":166.377,"end":195.002,"text":"但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情"},{"start":195.662,"end":216.282,"text":"要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家"},{"start":217.423,"end":235.609,"text":"不管是日本 韓國 歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備"},{"start":236.269,"end":258.411,"text":"所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講"},{"start":260.272,"end":275.027,"text":"那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢"},{"start":275.974,"end":303.335,"text":"我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多"},{"start":304.116,"end":326.637,"text":"不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的"},{"start":329.077,"end":353.343,"text":"這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會"},{"start":355.843,"end":384.333,"text":"質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心 我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡"},{"start":385.393,"end":405.487,"text":"因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞"},{"start":407.048,"end":425.239,"text":"我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表"},{"start":425.839,"end":448.259,"text":"在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿"},{"start":449.64,"end":472.137,"text":"一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了"},{"start":473.345,"end":484.808,"text":"教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億"},{"start":490.47,"end":510.514,"text":"但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉"},{"start":514.655,"end":539.771,"text":"所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标"},{"start":540.947,"end":561.008,"text":"或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院"},{"start":561.648,"end":583.273,"text":"基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下"},{"start":584.164,"end":597.509,"text":"如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查"},{"start":599.315,"end":622.236,"text":"教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎"},{"start":625.461,"end":637.779,"text":"上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎"},{"start":638.876,"end":664.323,"text":"上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK 那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好 那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長 政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億"},{"start":665.723,"end":685.94,"text":"那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿"},{"start":686.781,"end":705.578,"text":"可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼"},{"start":706.718,"end":723.679,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市"},{"start":724.56,"end":740.222,"text":"日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好"},{"start":740.723,"end":755.697,"text":"可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚 完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才"},{"start":756.657,"end":780.746,"text":"需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說"},{"start":781.626,"end":800.218,"text":"講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要"},{"start":800.718,"end":813.888,"text":"申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題"},{"start":818.632,"end":834.629,"text":"那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施"},{"start":835.089,"end":858.257,"text":"或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢"},{"start":859.649,"end":873.059,"text":"目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工"},{"start":882.265,"end":897.3,"text":"失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來"},{"start":898.962,"end":905.226,"text":"那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊"},{"start":928.022,"end":928.243,"text":"謝謝翁委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":84,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（14時16分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：卓院長好。今天立法院審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性的特別預算，我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關，在面對美國對臺灣實施的高關稅，以及最近匯率強烈變動的情況之下，可能會對於臺灣的產業、經濟、民生、社會所帶來的衝擊，以及各個部會機關因應相關國際情勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理，是不是有合乎實際的需求。","首先想請問院長，從今年4月份開始川普總統宣布實施對等關稅以來，到現在已經半年了，我們知道鄭麗君副院長其實也帶隊到美國去談判，至今應該已經談判了5次，到目前為止，到底有沒有什麼具體的結論？"],["卓院長榮泰：鄭副院長在昨天下午有把最後一次雙方實體談判的階段性結果跟國人報告，目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議，這部分因為美方現在還有一點內部的問題稍微停頓下來，我希望也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久，我們繼續往這個方向前進。剛剛王委員也有提過，我們希望在這個月內可以看到實質的進展，因為國內的產業跟人民都非常期待能趕快定案下來。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，我想大家最關心的還是疊加20%關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們正在爭取更合理的對等關稅，也在爭取不疊加的……"],["翁委員曉玲：賴總統口口聲聲說這20%關稅的稅率是所謂的暫時性稅率。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，目前是暫時性稅率。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是事實上，我們看到美國官方在他們行政命令上所公布的關稅附表裡面，根本沒有出現暫時性關稅這幾個字眼，所以稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%，但是我們政府好像始終沒有把這樣的訊息很正確的告訴民眾，當然或許20%之後有可能……假設我們釋出更多的利多，釋出更多臺灣這些產業的利益，有可能會換取下降關稅，但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能。","在這項的稅率裡面，我想民眾最關心的就是到底我們臺灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情？要採購美國什麼項目？這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的。我想請問為什麼到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲，讓國人一頭霧水、霧裡看花，搞不清楚到底我們臺灣投資、採購了什麼？","看看其他國家，不管日本、韓國、歐盟等等，他們其實都很大方的揭露與美國的談判狀況及進度，讓他們的民眾知道即便可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響，讓民眾可以提早做些準備，讓產業界也可以提早做些準備。就這個部分來說，我其實不是很認同現在行政院或賴政府的作法，因為在整個談判當中，讓外界感覺的就是偷偷摸摸、語焉不詳、遮遮掩掩，實際上有很多事情就應該開誠布公的跟大家講，在產業座談會或是跟立法院做相關的報告，某種程度也取得立法院的支持，我覺得這個部分是重要的，否則你們現在去談，談了回來之後到底立法院買不買單，都還是另外一回事呢！"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信日本也好、歐盟也好，也是在他們完成最後協議的時候，整體的全貌才會讓大家知道，之前的可能都是一種推測。原來宣布的是32%，後來暫時降到10%，後來又恢復到20%，但是美方有提到，只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整，所以我們認為20%是現在暫時性的，我們再努力爭取更好，但爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常、非常多不合理的代價，而是雙方基於一種合作的模式，我們希望對等關稅就是一種合作的模式，至於採購或是投資的內容，請容許由部長來答復。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想這個部分就暫時這樣，因為時間的關係。你看像前一陣子農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概1,000億美金的農產品，就讓大家很恐慌，擔心未來我們的黃小玉等等是不是就會讓利了？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是。"],["龔部長明鑫：這都是民間……"],["卓院長榮泰：那是民間的產業、民間的協會。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，民間的企業。"],["翁委員曉玲：沒關係，針對這部分，總之我們會期待行政院及各部會，如果你們知道一些我們跟美國談的狀況，就應該要資訊揭露，讓大家能夠清楚，否則的話，簡單來說這就是黑箱、不透明，難怪國人會質疑民進黨政府是不是出賣了臺灣某些產業的利益。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員放心，我們都一起把握國家最大的利益，在不違反國際談判的慣例及雙方保密原則之下，我們都跟社會做溝通。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝院長。接下來我就要進入到實質特別預算書的內容，本席仔細看了這項高達5,500億的特別預算，坦白說我真的看不出來它特別的地方在哪裡，翻開各個部會機關所寫的內容，事實上跟今年度（114年）的預算以及明年度所編列預算的項目高度相似，也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同，甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊、更抽象、更空洞。我想不僅是我看到這樣的狀況，其實有些媒體看了這個預算書之後也有同樣的感受，而且裡面疊床架屋、重複編列的情形相當嚴重。我在這邊也請院長看看本席所整理的一個圖表，在這份特別預算書當中，除了普發現金1萬元所編列的2,350億元項目很明確之外，9個部會機關寫了不到40頁的計畫說明書，就要拿走納稅人3,150億元的納稅金，平均一頁的計畫書就值80億，等於是一字一億，我們講一字千金，而它是一字千億，我想這對於國人來講是沒有辦法接受的，尤其是立法委員，我們看了這些預算書之後，真的是覺得瞠目結舌，要花這麼多的錢，可是我們看到的內容卻是非常、非常的模糊……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們產業……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們看看教育部好了，教育部寫了半頁、還不到一頁，總共210個字就要申請200億的經費；國防部大概寫了兩頁半，總共六百多個字，編了1,131億。我們看到這些機關草率編列特別預算的這種作法，說實在話，本席看了是挺生氣的，要叫我不砍預算也很難，因為裡面真的寫得太模糊了，人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉，所以就這部分我想請教，各部會機關有沒有認真思考，到底如何因應高關稅、匯率的變動，所導致產業的經濟衰退、產業出走及人才流失等等問題？有沒有一個具體的、更仔細的計畫？或是更有建設性的計畫？不要忘記這次的特別條例前面有一個很重要的目標或前提：為了因應國際情勢！為了因應國際情勢！因此，所編列的預算、項目及內容都要環繞著我們該如何去因應國際的情勢劇烈變化及對我們所產生的影響。但我現在所看到的，基本上行政院就是藉機把各種想得到的要錢的名目，全部灌到特別預算裡面，甚至還想技術性回補在114年度預算裡面刪除掉的一些預算！所以就這部分來說，這種趁火打劫的作法，坦白說，真的還令人滿反感的！"],["卓院長榮泰：我要跟委員報告一下，如果你用頁數跟文字來表示我們對預算編列的不夠嚴謹，那麼我也要替你表示委屈！你今天15分鐘時間，我就要請你通過我們的5,500億預算，這也太多……但不是這樣子的！未來到委員會時會詳細審查，教育部、國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡讓大家來討論，所以不是用這樣的……"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝院長。我為什麼要這麼說？因為你們在預算報告書裡、這是你們的預算報告……"],["卓院長榮泰：將來會提出更詳細的文字，請教育部長來說明。當然不是這樣子嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：說明裡面就這麼一點點文字。我待會兒才會問到教育部長，部長先等一下。接下來我要先請問院長有關現金發放的具體時程。你們都準備好了嗎？相關的發放作業程序都準備得差不多了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：上午時財政部莊部長也提過，我們先期的準備作業已經在陸續展開了。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以當特別預算三讀通過，可以在非常短的時間內發放給大家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：前面幾位委員都有在推敲，如果大院在10月17日審議完成，總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放，但我們會把腳步加快。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，OK。我希望能夠儘速、趕快讓人民領到這筆現金，畢竟現在有通貨膨脹，而且最近還有些災情等等，其實人民都很需要這筆錢。","接下來我要請教教育部鄭部長。教育部在這次的預算編列了200億，用來辦理強化高等教育人才。其中100億是補助大專院校提升校務經營，及採購大學醫院裡的儀器設備與軟體系統。另外100億則是補助大學延攬初聘教師的簽約金，並精進產學合作，所以個別加起來是200億。可是上面這些項目，事實上教育部在年度預算當中都已經編列過了，是例行性補助大專院校的基本維運，還有整體發展所需費用。所以可不可以請部長告訴本席，到底在這次特別預算裡，你們的預算重點是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，委員也來自大學，清大校長也跟我們特別提過因為科技產業的蓬勃發展，所以理工師資確實是有疑慮的。我相信委員非常了解國際現勢，日本甚至提出每年1,000億日幣來延攬國際人才，包含半導體科技產業在內。在這裡邊，我們主要是希望能夠給大學有一個更大的……"],["翁委員曉玲：瞭解了，謝謝部長。部長，您講得很好，可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在預算書裡面！您回去再看看您的預算書，它寫得非常、非常粗糙，完全看不到重點……"],["鄭部長英耀：在分組的時候，我們會再跟委員做更詳細的報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果您今天說我們需要培養STEM人才、需要培養半導體科技人才，所以需要延攬相關師資，這方面本席當然支持。部長，你曾經當過中山大學校長，寫過高教深耕計畫，我想您在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能寫了短短幾行字就可以向教育部拿到2億計畫或是200億計畫，這是不可能的！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，預算書不可能講的很詳細，但在分組審查，我想我們會……"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有、沒有！預算書還是可以寫得詳細，還是可以寫得詳細。真的，你們這個部分如果大家覺得有疑問的話……"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員指正，我們來改進……"],["翁委員曉玲：待會兒就會公布。所以我覺得這樣的預算說明書實在太草率了，不到一頁就想申請200億經費，如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎？至少我不會，因為基本上我是一個嚴謹的人，我會嚴格地去看每一項預算。當然，這個問題不僅發生在教育部，其實像勞動部也有類似的問題，勞動部在這一次的特別預算當中，支持勞工安定就業的預算就編列了高達150億，在這個項目底下一共編了10項計畫，但裡面有很多內容都是既有的措施或者是在COVID疫情相關措施的框架底下，不過是微調了適用的範圍、對象、補助條件等等，所以簡單來說，它基本上跟一般的年度預算是差不多的，還是有出現重複編列的狀況。再說呢，現在勞動部就業安定基金在目前的規模是有多少錢？"],["洪部長申翰：目前就業安定基金每年的這個……"],["翁委員曉玲：到目前為止。"],["洪部長申翰：每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是我們去查了，你們到目前為止大概是有475億，既然有這475億的經費，難道不能夠用來去作為、去支應？如果萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊而造成一些勞工失業，然後要幫助他們就業的情況，我想就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定產業受到影響勞工的失業補助，我覺得這樣是比較合理的，否則的話根本看不出來……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，讓我說明一下可以嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：不好意思，部長，因為我只剩最後一點點時間，只有30秒、20秒……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：不僅是勞動部，海委會、內政部、衛福部都有這樣的狀況，衛福部編了5,000萬的獨居老人關懷服務等等的經費，這些其實也都應該編列在一般性的預算。","總之，現在就是行政院編列預算真的太過草率，本席希望能夠再把預算內容寫得更清楚一些，詳細數字……"],["卓院長榮泰：我會求各部會詳列計畫的內容，在委員會的時候跟委員詳細報告，請委員支持我們的預算，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁委員，也謝謝卓院長。","下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163803","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163803","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890eaa81fc1f33fe83a704543300bdabf02cfe8ed51afeb83d519ee2b2e751d37cf5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"14:00:21 - 14:16:05","影片長度":"00:15:44","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T14:00:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T14:16:05+08:00","duration":944,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.57221875,"end":24.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.47721875,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.23221875,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.58659375,"end":35.603468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.68784375,"end":42.657218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":42.977843750000005,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.407843750000005,"end":50.031593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.166593750000004,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.13659375,"end":55.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.954718750000005,"end":57.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.338468750000004,"end":66.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":66.14721875000001,"end":68.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":69.37034375,"end":72.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.03221875,"end":74.80409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":75.24284375,"end":79.93409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.27159375000001,"end":85.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.48596875000001,"end":94.76721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":95.12159375,"end":103.25534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.13284375,"end":105.75284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.80346875000001,"end":110.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.69721875,"end":114.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.02971875,"end":117.37971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.71721875,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.73346875000001,"end":123.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.91034375000001,"end":129.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.30596875,"end":133.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.73159375,"end":136.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.30909375000002,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.60846875000001,"end":142.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":141.46034375000002,"end":148.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.71659375000002,"end":155.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.80471875,"end":151.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.12534375,"end":152.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.14159375,"end":159.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.34784375,"end":173.10096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.53971875000002,"end":176.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.94846875000002,"end":180.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.98159375,"end":191.47784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.84909375,"end":203.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.79659375,"end":207.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.16721875000002,"end":210.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":211.23846875,"end":211.54221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":212.04846875,"end":216.99284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":215.42346875,"end":215.79471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.30096875,"end":220.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":220.63784375,"end":222.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":222.32534375,"end":222.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":222.54471875000002,"end":224.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.02971875,"end":231.67409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.16784375,"end":232.11284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.89346875,"end":233.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.13784375,"end":235.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":235.85909375000003,"end":241.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.88346875000002,"end":248.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":246.87846875000002,"end":255.01221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":255.09659375,"end":265.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.13034375,"end":255.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.05409375,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.08784375,"end":257.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.27221875000004,"end":265.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.18346875000003,"end":267.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":267.28034375000004,"end":270.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":270.52034375,"end":272.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.57909375,"end":274.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.22846875,"end":277.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.55721875,"end":309.92346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.94034375,"end":309.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.95721875000004,"end":314.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.00284375,"end":316.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.77471875000003,"end":319.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":319.76159375000003,"end":320.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":320.84159375,"end":325.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":325.90409375,"end":339.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.74159375000005,"end":392.45909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":392.79659375,"end":393.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":394.23096875000005,"end":401.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":402.16221875,"end":403.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":404.15346875,"end":406.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.90409375,"end":416.75909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.07971875000004,"end":420.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.89346875,"end":423.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.25159375000004,"end":437.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.46471875000003,"end":441.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":441.49784375,"end":442.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.18534375,"end":446.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":446.67846875000004,"end":452.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":452.66909375,"end":458.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.94659375000003,"end":459.85784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.12784375,"end":462.40596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":462.55784375,"end":472.15971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":472.80096875000004,"end":473.34096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":473.93159375000005,"end":478.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":479.82096875,"end":481.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.01471875000004,"end":485.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.67221875,"end":489.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.47346875000005,"end":489.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.50721875000005,"end":490.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.53659375,"end":491.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":491.43096875000003,"end":491.92034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.92034375000003,"end":505.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":505.21784375000004,"end":511.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.00159375,"end":512.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.72721875,"end":513.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":512.9128437500001,"end":513.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":513.70596875,"end":514.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":514.4653437500001,"end":514.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.11909375,"end":519.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":520.3884687500001,"end":520.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":521.46846875,"end":523.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.83096875,"end":525.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.40034375,"end":537.9890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.69784375,"end":539.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.99721875,"end":542.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.7647187499999,"end":546.02159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.5615937499999,"end":548.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.4978437500001,"end":550.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.09659375,"end":555.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.60659375,"end":568.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":568.11096875,"end":573.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.25409375,"end":578.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":578.7590937500001,"end":580.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.09221875,"end":585.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":584.7834687500001,"end":589.6772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.8884687500001,"end":588.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.32284375,"end":591.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":590.7234687499999,"end":591.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":592.17471875,"end":596.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":596.14034375,"end":599.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":600.17346875,"end":603.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":603.3290937500001,"end":604.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.37096875,"end":609.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":609.1340937500001,"end":618.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":619.8328437499999,"end":621.9084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.41471875,"end":637.5178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.0915937500001,"end":643.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":643.52534375,"end":651.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":649.7522187500001,"end":652.5534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.5534687500001,"end":685.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":684.71721875,"end":692.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.02409375,"end":695.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":695.21346875,"end":697.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":695.68596875,"end":698.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":697.5422187500001,"end":704.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":705.10221875,"end":708.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":709.05096875,"end":712.1897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":711.6497187500001,"end":715.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":715.04159375,"end":718.6528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.72034375,"end":724.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.1540937500001,"end":726.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":725.6897187500001,"end":726.1115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":726.2297187500001,"end":729.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":729.80721875,"end":743.2397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":743.74596875,"end":745.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.2265937500001,"end":751.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":751.4240937500001,"end":755.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":755.98034375,"end":759.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":759.77721875,"end":770.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":771.04971875,"end":802.0828437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":784.7859687499999,"end":786.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":802.2009687500001,"end":810.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":810.38534375,"end":825.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":825.9272187500001,"end":838.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.4653437500001,"end":846.6159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":838.85346875,"end":841.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":847.13909375,"end":849.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":850.2947187500001,"end":852.3703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.5222187500001,"end":858.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":858.4115937500001,"end":863.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":861.1115937500001,"end":863.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":863.32221875,"end":863.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":863.40659375,"end":868.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":868.77284375,"end":869.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.04284375,"end":869.22846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":869.76846875,"end":871.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":870.8484687500002,"end":883.4709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.4709687500001,"end":906.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":893.2078437500002,"end":895.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":904.4465937500001,"end":914.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":912.20909375,"end":915.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":914.63909375,"end":919.9209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":920.37659375,"end":921.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":922.35096875,"end":938.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":936.00284375,"end":936.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":942.3647187500001,"end":943.9678437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":944.82846875,"end":945.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":19.633,"end":22.254,"text":"好 謝副院長 麻煩我們總統派卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":36.334,"end":55.382,"text":"現在國務房忙,內有風災、雁塞湖外有國際挑戰,還有周邊的中國的威脅跟侵擾我們今天在審查因應國際情勢強化經濟、社會及民生國安任性特別預算案法案通過了,現在進行預算的審查"},{"start":56.062,"end":74.63,"text":"所以就這幾個問題我大家請教那有相關部會要上來說明也可以自己上來補充啦我第一個先回到我們這個預算的源頭其實是因為川普總統的對等關稅開始的那我們知道鄭麗君副院長剛去美國一趟然後又已經回來了"},{"start":75.33,"end":100.337,"text":"那目前美國政府因為撥款不足的問題聯邦政府關門導致美國聯邦雇員75萬人暫時停擺所以我要請教一下就院長的了解目前我們對美關稅已經接近在最後關頭了在最後的一個談判的階段會不會被這個美國政府聯邦政府關門所影響把達成協議達成結論的時程往後延"},{"start":104.158,"end":114.783,"text":"好 謝謝委員目前台美雙方已經完成了所謂最後的技術性的磋商但是最後那個總結性會議達成協議部分還沒有完成"},{"start":116.072,"end":139.494,"text":"因為達成技術性受傷之後是個別回去再做一些細部做一些審視他最重要是最後一個總結會議總結會議一定他我們看過去美方跟其他各國的總結會議都有一定差不多模式這個模式現在我們也無法預測美國方面因為他國內的這些變化情況但是我們認為一個政府不會長時間的停滯下來"},{"start":141.516,"end":158.19,"text":"他們曾經最久關門時間是三十四五天不過我問的問題就你目前掌握的狀況我們對美基礎性磋商就這一趟去大概談完了接下來叫最後磋商最後談判那因為他有個期限我們一般預估在十月份應該要有個結論了"},{"start":159.471,"end":180.132,"text":"那這個十月份要結論牽涉到台灣國內太多的產業太多的勞工了所以我剛才問的問題是就目前行政院掌握的狀況美國聯邦政府暫停暫時停止營業關門連台灣的AIT官方email不能用網頁不能用然後有些業務要暫停"},{"start":181.373,"end":210.433,"text":"對美的談判的部分的期程預計十月份要結論這件事情會不會因為這個美國聯邦政府暫時關門往後延據政府院長回來的消息雙方最後並沒有談到一個最後的期限但是雙方都有共識盡快的達成這個期限那我認為現在十月初如果用十月底來做一個想像的話那足以讓雙方政府在最後的階段做更多的準備達成最後的協議那我們也朝這個方式來進行"},{"start":212.074,"end":232.786,"text":"院長你剛才那段話我可不可以詮釋你也期待在十月底前要有結論我認為我們的產業界跟國人都很期待趕快定案下來落點落在哪裡我們的整個產業支持的方案可以全力的實施就我從美方的相關人員聽起來也預計在十月份應該要有結論希望是如此本席才會擔心說進戶關門啊"},{"start":235.988,"end":254.677,"text":"聯邦政府關門而且還要裁員幾千個人會不會因為這個跟這個不相干的事物反而導致我們騎乘往後拖延這一點可能要多加關注我們除了自己趕快把我們的整個最後協商的所有的方案完成之外我們也祝福美方政府盡快恢復正常"},{"start":255.557,"end":274.126,"text":"這是他們的內政問題由他們來解決所以我們目前行政院期待的是在10月底前有關對美關稅能夠達成最後的結論希望如此我們也期待鄭麗君副院長作為有關談判的總負責人我們希望很多訊息在"},{"start":275.707,"end":303.875,"text":"違反彼此默契因為跟美國跟各國談判都一樣雙方有約定要保密就是要保密不保密反而傷害國家的利益但在可以的情形下盡量讓國人瞭解目前進度特別是對中小企業以美國為主要市場的這些產業他有備料的問題他有產能閒置的問題他有我把準備什麼要開始訂單這個部分我會建議行政院跟我們的財經相關部門"},{"start":305.076,"end":314.277,"text":"能夠透明的請一下盡量讓業者跟相關的人能夠了解情形是的 我們一直在這樣做產業座談當中也告訴他們一些應該因應的方式"},{"start":315.066,"end":338.669,"text":"那接下來我要請教是我們當然在審特別預算我們了解特別預算是在預算法裡面第83條要嘛就國防緊急設施或戰爭第二個是國家經濟重大變故這個算是我們這個特別算有兩條大概第一條第二條第三個是重大災變丹納斯那個大概就是屬於第三條但我們特別預算會用到條文"},{"start":339.85,"end":361.897,"text":"一二三條我們都用到了那第四條是不定期或數年一次的重大正事我真的覺得還好因為曾經國民黨的委員要提案把特別預算的法源全部刪除那時候我們就說千萬不要這樣做因為特別預算還是要受立法院的審查監督特別預算還是要有決算報告受審計"},{"start":363.237,"end":386.052,"text":"另外特別預算也不是另外開個淨庫它也不會超過我們的舉債上限它全部都納入的它不是另外開了一個方便的路所以還好特別預算沒有當時在政黨的競爭下被人一時衝動把它拿掉了否則現在很多因應都沒辦法來做但是基於這四個特別預算在預算法裡面所規定"},{"start":387.513,"end":416.485,"text":"本席看了有關我們國防部這邊請國防部長一併來回答就是說我們在國防部在這一個因應國際情勢的強化國安任性的特別預算案裡面有1132億是跟國防部有關我看了裡面的細項裡面第一大類佔了673億大概都是屬於職管 通信 任性裡面還包含了要建立軍民的"},{"start":417.285,"end":440.656,"text":"COP共同圖像等等這邊佔了一塊另外一塊叫設備更新後時戰備我看了裡面是包含了彈藥庫包含了一些軍事設施另外一個是屬於海巡的部分守護海疆保護人民31這裡面包含了這個指管韌性還有軍民共同圖像等等"},{"start":441.576,"end":459.74,"text":"我先請教那個國防部長我們現在管主委也上來就我了解陸軍現在的共同圖像還是屬於局部性的那你現在要建立所謂軍民共同圖像你那個名是不是指的是海巡署共同圖像的部分"},{"start":460.488,"end":484.795,"text":"主要是跟海巡跟海巡嘛那因為我們陸軍本身的共同圖像還有待更完整現在不能說沒有但要更完整更建立那你這邊花了五億要跟我們自己還在增進當中那我現在跟海巡在建立共同圖像這個會不會有點順序上的問題我們那個共同的圖像是"},{"start":486.721,"end":511.372,"text":"我們現在是一個叫做台灣戰術網路TPN就這個台灣戰術網路我們會除了海巡以外我們還有陸軍的雷達海軍的雷達的這些進岸的部分我們為了要增加海域的決志這個部分也把它納進來所以不僅陸軍我們海軍大概也要跟海巡要在這個共同圖像下進行相關的執管作業對這個武藝"},{"start":516.155,"end":537.452,"text":"在建立所謂的指管系統跟共同圖像就我了解其實這個經費算是遠遠不足所以我是不是可以預計除了在這一個特別預算會看到這一個建立指管任性 治安防護 共同圖像我們未來還會看到很多類似的預算因為五億沒辦法建立這個東西"},{"start":540.066,"end":552.9,"text":"因為這相關的TDN的部分也就是台灣戰術網路它事實上是從一個戰術的層級一直在做一個擴展"},{"start":555.68,"end":572.905,"text":"那我們將這個海巡跟陸軍還有海軍的雷達來進入到這個台灣戰術網路裡面最主要的目的當然就是讓接收這個當面的這些雷達所以原來海巡是沒有的原來海巡沒有在這個台灣戰術的剛剛委員問的是說我們就那個台灣戰術網路還會繼續在"},{"start":578.386,"end":599.317,"text":"發展未來還要再精進對對對那我們將比較不屬於機敏的這個部分我們所以海巡得到的權限是我們把機敏以外的可以跟他們共用就對了我們會跟他共享所以5分鐘要給管主委也要給顧部長來提就是說特別預算必須要有他的急迫性跟必要性"},{"start":600.197,"end":621.659,"text":"當然有在野黨在挑戰這一點說你這個預算放到年度預算就好啦為什麼要放到特別預算裡面年度預算就能編了這些項目為什麼不放到年度預算我是不是先請顧部長在國防部的立場有關國安任性裡面它的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡"},{"start":622.752,"end":637.291,"text":"跟委員報告一下我舉一個彈藥庫作為例子好了我們在過去用作業為指揮來看的話我們的彈藥庫組的設施大概近三年平均一年只能大概編列一億一千多萬元"},{"start":638.374,"end":667.774,"text":"我們現在因為有大量的新式武器會進來我們也要有足夠的囤儲所以我們必須要整建這樣這是急迫性急迫性的為什麼不放在年度裡面我另外舉個例子就是說我們的訓場也要快速的整建所以因為因應整個後備戰力的提升還有我們一年級EVE的要即將人會陸續到位所以我們一年級的EVE也會增加"},{"start":669.454,"end":694.382,"text":"所以我們這個訓場如果按照用年度預算來做整修的話平均一年大概都只能到三億多所以我們現在要全面優化它的話我們總共編導要有四十億這樣我們快速的能夠所以在顧部長的講法是原來的年度預算在做這些項目金額源源不足可能要花很多年才堅持完成因為你如果把所有的預算都擺在這個部分"},{"start":695.402,"end":704.197,"text":"會排擠到其他的軍頭因為作業的維持會主要在裝備的妥善他一定把裝備的妥善放在優先的項目"},{"start":705.368,"end":724.983,"text":"可是裝備的妥占放在優先項目裡他剩下來的餘額就只能夠維持平常的這些會影響到我們維持戰備妥占率的支出必要戰備妥占一定是優先用到作業維持會對不對那剩下來有關彈藥的整建還有訓場的設施的改建等等的這些就都沒有什麼錢"},{"start":725.823,"end":744.732,"text":"所以你剛才說明了必要性跟急迫性尤其事實上二屋戰爭就讓我們看到其實我們的彈藥準備是嚴重不足需要增加儲存量新式彈藥進來如果這些產障沒有蓋起來的話它進來了你的廚房會是一個問題那我剩下時間給管主委啦我看過你在委員會"},{"start":746.277,"end":759.353,"text":"替海巡弟兄們在講這些預算的問題你可不可以用簡單來說明一下在這一個國安任性特別預算裡面海巡這個預算的部分它的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡"},{"start":761.262,"end":782.909,"text":"同樣的如果說海巡它在下個階段的大轉型我們真的要很快的來上路很快的能夠有進度的話那就沒有辦法用公務預算的平滑預算一點一點一點一點慢慢的來累積所以它一定必須像特別預算這樣子讓我們能夠很快的同時齊頭並進"},{"start":784.95,"end":809.782,"text":"你在同時投入的東西是說以海空一體來講我們是從空中就必須要增加無人載具的全面的部署那另外一直到水面我們目前水面的無人載具是完全是零水下也完全是零那麼新的造艦計畫又到了應該要開始下個階段的時候所以從水下水面"},{"start":810.462,"end":824.829,"text":"一直到空中然後從有人到無人我們如果齊頭並進的話它本身就是非常的擁擠那另外就是說即使是情間真的部分我們不只是一重我們必須"},{"start":826.01,"end":852.263,"text":"例如我們現在沒有夜視的功能所以我們必須有一層是有夜視的功能那另外我們次世代的雷達我們也必須要升級在雷達的這一層能夠到更遠距其實我們目前如果十二海我們過去幾年看到很多小艇穿越到淡水河口啦到台中那不是海巡不認真是你的裝備看不見所以你現在急著把這個洞補起來嘛"},{"start":852.823,"end":869.22,"text":"對 因為來得太快而且同時來得種類太多元來得襲擾的類型太多元了所以妳認為放在年度預算編列我們沒辦法用年度預算的平滑預算慢慢慢慢去建置那個真的是會來不及"},{"start":870.201,"end":882.409,"text":"會來不及而且我請教妳因為今天日本毒麥新聞揭露說台日甚至叫它美國三國之間的海巡將常態性的聯合的演習妳對這個訊息有沒有什麼評論各位委員報告"},{"start":885.411,"end":913.829,"text":"因為是獨賣新聞的揭露所以會說的這麼仔細那事實上這個事情發生已經有我們過去幾年跟日本已經有了那這個行動相關的揭露都是從日本那邊來揭露那我們樂於看到說日本更願意積極的去揭露主委 這個訊息其實因為剩30秒這訊息其實過去都已經揭露過了也真的發生了台日或台美聯合的海軍的演習都有"},{"start":914.73,"end":936.339,"text":"那我現在要請教是 以往演習的地點要嘛就南太 要嘛就日本海周邊台海周邊會不會各位委員報告 我們大概演習是跟南海以及北方我們北方跟日本 南方跟菲律賓台海會不會"},{"start":944.896,"end":945.893,"text":"好 谢谢王伟"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（14時）謝謝副院長，麻煩請卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：院長辛苦了，現在國務繁忙，內有風災、堰塞湖；外有國際挑戰；還有周邊中國的威脅跟侵擾。我們今天審查「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」，法案通過了現在要進行預算的審查，所以我大概要請教幾個問題，有相關部會要上來說明的也可以自己上來補充。","第一個，先回到這個預算的源頭，其實是因為川普總統對等關稅開始的，我們知道鄭麗君副院長剛去美國一趟又已經回來了，目前美國政府因為撥款不足的問題導致聯邦政府關門，有75萬名聯邦雇員也暫時停擺。所以我要請教一下，就院長的了解，目前我們對美關稅已經接近最後關頭，在最後談判的階段，會不會受美國政府聯邦政府關門影響，把達成協議、達成結論的時程往後延？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，目前臺美雙方已經完成最後技術性的磋商，但是最後總結性會議、達成協議部分還沒有完成，因為達成技術性磋商之後是個別回去針對一些細部再做一些審視……"],["王委員定宇：最重要的是最後一個總結會議呀！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，總結會議。我們看過去美方跟其他各國的總結會議都有一定差不多的模式，這個模式現在我們也無法預測美國方面國內的這些變化情況，但是我們認為一個政府不會長時間的停滯下來，它應該……"],["王委員定宇：他們曾經關門最久時間是34、35天，不過我問的問題是就你目前掌握的狀況，關於對美的技術性磋商，這一趟去我們大概談完了，接下來要最後磋商、最後談判。因為它有個期限，我們一般預估在10月份應該要有個結論，這個結論就牽涉到臺灣國內太多的產業、太多的勞工，所以我剛才問的問題是就目前行政院掌握的狀況，美國聯邦政府暫時停止營業關門，連臺灣AIT官方的email都不能用、網頁不能用，然後有些業務要暫停。因此對美談判部分期程預計10月份要有結論的這件事情，會不會因為美國聯邦政府暫時關門往後延？"],["卓院長榮泰：據鄭副院長帶回來的消息，雙方最後並沒有談到最後的期限，但是雙方都有共識儘快的達成這個期限。現在10月初，我認為如果用10月底來做一個想像的話，足以讓雙方政府在最後這個階段做更多的準備，達成最後的協議，我們也朝這個方式來進行。"],["王委員定宇：院長你剛才那一段話，我可不可以詮釋為你也期待在10月底前要有結論？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為我們的產業界跟國人都很期待趕快定案下來，看落點落在哪裡，我們整個產業支持的方案才可以全力的實施。"],["王委員定宇：因為就我從美方的相關人員聽到的，也預計在10月份應該要有結論。"],["卓院長榮泰：希望是如此。"],["王委員定宇：所以本席才會擔心他們聯邦政府關門，而且還要裁員幾千個人，會不會因為這個不相干的事物，反而導致我們期程往後拖延，這一點可能要多加關注。雖然目前聽起來不會……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們除了趕快把自己整個最後協商、所有的方案完成之外，我們也祝福美方政府儘快恢復正常。"],["王委員定宇：那是他們的內政問題，由他們來解決。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員定宇：所以目前行政院期待的是在10月底前，有關對美關稅能夠達成最後的結論？"],["卓院長榮泰：希望如此。"],["王委員定宇：OK，我們也期待鄭麗君副院長作為有關談判的總負責人，我們希望很多訊息在不違反彼此默契……因為跟美國、跟各國談判都一樣，雙方有約定要保密就是要保密。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["王委員定宇：不保密反而傷害國家的利益，但在可以的情形下，儘量讓國人了解目前進度，特別是對中小企業以美國為主要市場的這些產業，它有備料的問題、它有產能閒置的問題，它也需要準備什麼時候要開始啟動的部分，我會建議行政院跟財經相關部門在透明的情形下，儘量讓業者跟相關的人能夠了解情形。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，我們一直這樣做，產業座談當中也告訴他們一些應該因應的方式。"],["王委員定宇：接下來我要請教，當然在審特別預算，我們了解特別預算是在預算法第八十三條第一個國防緊急設施或戰爭；第二個國家經濟重大變故，我們這個特別預算有兩個大概屬於第一款、第二款；第三個是重大災變，丹娜絲颱風大概就是屬於第三款，這次特別預算會用到的條文，第一、二、三款我們都用到了；第四款是不定期或數年一次的重大政事。我真的覺得還好，因為曾經國民黨的委員要提案把特別預算的法源全部刪除，那時候我們就說：千萬不要這樣做。因為特別預算還是要受立法院的審查監督、特別預算還是要有決算報告受審計，另外特別預算也不是另外開個金庫，它也不會超過我們的舉債上限，它是全部都納入，不是另外開了一個方便的路。所以還好當時特別預算沒有在政黨的競爭下，被人一時衝動把它拿掉了，否則現在很多因應都沒辦法來做。","但是基於這四個特別預算在預算法裡面所規定的，本席看了有關國防部這邊，請國防部長一併來回答，就是國防部在因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案裡面，有1,132億是跟國防部有關，我看了細項裡面的第一大類占了673億，大概都是屬於指管通信韌性，裡面還包含了要建立軍民共同圖像（COP）等等，這邊占了一塊；另外一塊叫設備更新厚實戰備，我看了裡面是包含了彈藥庫、一些軍事設施；另外一個是屬於海巡的部分，守護海疆、保護人民的30億，這裡面包含了指管韌性，還有軍民共同圖像等等。我先請教國防部長，我們現在管主委也上來，就我了解，陸軍現在的共同圖像還是屬於局部性的，那你現在要建立所謂軍民共同圖像，那個「民」是不是指的是海巡署？共同圖像的部分。"],["顧部長立雄：主要是跟海巡。"],["王委員定宇：因為我們陸軍本身的共同圖像還有待更完整，現在不能說沒有，但要更完整、更需建立，那你這邊花了5億，就我們自己還在增進當中，現在跟海巡在建立共同圖像，這個會不會有點順序上的問題？"],["顧部長立雄：我們的共同圖像是，我們現在有一個叫做臺灣戰術網路……"],["王委員定宇：TACACS？"],["顧部長立雄：TTN，就臺灣戰術網路除了海巡以外，我們還有陸軍的雷達、海軍的雷達這些近岸的部分，我們為了要增加海域的覺知，這一個部分也把它納進來。"],["王委員定宇：所以不僅陸軍，海軍大概也要跟海巡在這個共同圖像下進行相關的指管作業嘛？"],["顧部長立雄：對！"],["王委員定宇：那這個5億在建立所謂的指管系統跟共同圖像，就我了解，其實這個經費算是遠遠不足，所以我是不是可以預計除了在這一個特別預算會看到建立指管韌性、資安防護、共同圖像，我們未來還會看到很多類似的預算？因為5億沒辦法建立這個東西啊！"],["顧部長立雄：因為相關TTN的部分，也就是臺灣戰術網路，事實上是從一個戰術層級會一直在做擴展，我們將海巡跟陸軍還有海軍雷達進入到臺灣戰術網路裡面，最主要的目的當然就是讓接收當面的這些雷達可以清楚……"],["王委員定宇：所以原來海巡是沒有的？"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以……"],["王委員定宇：海巡沒有在這個臺灣戰術裡面？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛委員問的是，我們就臺灣戰術網路還會繼續再發展。"],["王委員定宇：未來還要再精進啦！"],["顧部長立雄：對、對、對，我們將比較不屬於機敏的部分，我們……"],["王委員定宇：所以海巡得到的權限是機敏以外的部分可以跟他們共用就對了？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會跟他們共享。"],["王委員定宇：最後5分鐘要給管主委，也要給顧部長來提，特別預算必須要有它的急迫性跟必要性，當然有在野黨在挑戰這一點說這個預算放到年度預算就好，為什麼要放到特別預算裡面？年度預算就能編啦！這些項目為什麼不放到年度預算？我是不是先請顧部長，在國防部的立場，有關國安韌性裡面，它的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告一下，我舉一個彈藥庫作為例子，我們在過去用作業維持費來看的話，彈藥庫存的設施近三年，平均一年只能編列大概一億一千多萬元。現在因為有大量的新式武器會進來，我們也要有足夠的囤儲，所以必須要整建。"],["王委員定宇：所以這是急迫性？"],["顧部長立雄：急迫性的。"],["王委員定宇：為什麼不放在年度裡面？"],["顧部長立雄：我另外舉個例子，我們的訓場也要快速地整建，因為因應整個後備戰力的提升，還有我們一年期義務役即將會陸續到位，所以一年期義務役也會增加很快，訓場如果按照年度預算來做整修的話，平均一年大概都只能到三億多，現在為了全面優化，我們總共編到44億，這樣我們能夠快速地……"],["王委員定宇：所以現在顧部長講法是，原來的年度預算在做這些項目金額遠遠不足，可能要花很多年才建置完成……"],["顧部長立雄：因為你如果把所有的預算都擺在這個部分，就會排擠到裝備……"],["王委員定宇：排擠到其他的軍投……"],["顧部長立雄：因為作業維持費主要在裝備的妥善，一定把裝備的妥善放在優先項目，可是裝備的妥善放在優先項目，它剩下來的餘額就只能夠維持平常的這些彈藥庫……"],["王委員定宇：會影響到我們維持戰備妥善率的一些必要支出。"],["顧部長立雄：戰備妥善一定是優先用到作業維持費，剩下來有關彈藥的整建，還有訓場設施的改建等等，就都沒有什麼錢可以放在這一塊。"],["王委員定宇：所以你剛才說明了必要性跟急迫性，尤其事實上俄烏戰爭就讓我們看到，我們的彈藥準備是嚴重不足，需要增加儲存量。新式彈藥進來，如果這些站沒有蓋起來的話，它進來了，你的儲放會是一個問題。","我剩下時間給管主委，我看過你在委員會替海巡弟兄們講這些預算的問題，你可不可以簡單來說明一下，在國安韌性特別預算裡面，海巡預算部分的急迫性跟必要性在哪裡？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，同樣的，如果海巡在下個階段的大轉型，我們真的要很快地上路、很快地能夠有進度的話，就沒有辦法用公務預算的平滑預算，一點一點一點慢慢地累積，所以一定必須像特別預算，讓我們能夠很快地同時齊頭並進。"],["王委員定宇：你現在同時投入的東西是什麼？"],["管主任委員碧玲：譬如說，以海空一體來講，我們是從空中就必須要增加無人載具全面的部署。另外，一直到水面，我們目前水面的無人載具完全是零，水下也完全是零，新的造艦計畫又到了應該要開始下個階段的時候，所以從水下、水面，一直到空中，然後從有人到無人，我們如果齊頭並進的話，它本身就是非常的擁擠。","另外，即使是情監偵的部分，我們不只是一叢，例如我們現在沒有夜視的功能，所以我們必須有一層是有夜視的功能。另外，我們次世代的雷達也必須要升級，在雷達的這一層能夠到更遠距。我們目前如果12浬要推到……"],["王委員定宇：管主委提到這個急迫性，我們過去幾年看到很多小艇穿越到淡水河口、到臺中，那不是海巡不認真，是你的裝備看不見，所以你現在急著把這個洞補起來嘛？"],["管主任委員碧玲：對。因為來得太快，而且同時來的種類太多元，來的襲擾類型太多元，而且來得太快……"],["王委員定宇：所以你認為放在年度預算編列……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們沒辦法用年度預算的平滑預算慢慢、慢慢去建置，那樣真的是……"],["王委員定宇：會來不及。"],["管主任委員碧玲：會來不及，而且沒辦法完整。"],["王委員定宇：我請教你，因為今天日本讀賣新聞揭露說臺日、甚至加上美國，三國之間的海巡將常態性聯合演習，你對這個訊息有沒有什麼評論？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，因為是讀賣新聞的揭露，所以會說得這麼仔細，事實上，這個事情發生已經有……"],["王委員定宇：我們過去幾年跟日本已經有了？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，這個行動相關的揭露都是從日本那邊來揭露，我們樂於看到日本更願意積極地去揭露，過去是比較保守的……"],["王委員定宇：主委，因為剩三十秒。這個訊息其實過去都已經揭露過了，也真的發生了，臺日或臺美聯合的海巡演習都有……"],["管主任委員碧玲：東京的那一次有揭露過，今天揭露的這一次沒有。"],["王委員定宇：我現在要請教，以往演習的地點要不然就是南太，要不然就是日本海周邊，臺海周邊會不會？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我們演習大概是跟南海以及北方跟日本、南方跟菲律賓，另外當然……"],["王委員定宇：臺海會不會？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，因為比較敏感，是不是……"],["王委員定宇：好，如果覺得敏感，我尊重，保密為了國家利益。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["王委員定宇：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}},{"id":"163802","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163802","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890738baefef9a7339b704543300bdabf021764375d49d526b92cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:16:21 - 12:32:09","影片長度":"00:15:48","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T12:16:21+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T12:32:09+08:00","duration":948,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":0.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":10.03784375,"end":10.223468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.223468750000002,"end":24.398468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":24.820343750000003,"end":26.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26.49096875,"end":28.364093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":28.49909375,"end":35.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.48534375,"end":35.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":35.58659375,"end":35.65409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":35.65409375,"end":39.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":39.14721875,"end":46.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":39.31596875,"end":40.26096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.58909375,"end":74.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.70721875,"end":48.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":60.62909375,"end":62.75534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.68596875,"end":79.79909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.64784375,"end":79.00596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.79909375000001,"end":79.83284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":79.83284375000001,"end":79.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.93409375,"end":88.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":87.51096875,"end":92.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":89.99159375,"end":93.70409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":93.97409375000001,"end":105.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.73284375,"end":99.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":99.64409375000001,"end":100.52159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":104.75721875,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":107.96346875,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":110.17409375000001,"end":110.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.63784375,"end":114.17346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.17346875000001,"end":114.22409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.02534375,"end":118.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.24409375,"end":123.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":123.11721875,"end":123.97784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.97784375,"end":141.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.59346875000001,"end":127.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":131.31846875000002,"end":131.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.98909375,"end":135.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":142.50659375,"end":145.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.12221875,"end":147.85596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":148.10909375,"end":155.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":155.63534375,"end":158.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":158.57159375,"end":160.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":160.93409375000002,"end":164.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":164.71409375000002,"end":168.84846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":169.06784375,"end":170.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":169.74284375000002,"end":172.18971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.18971875,"end":173.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.53971875000002,"end":173.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.59034375000002,"end":173.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.60721875000002,"end":174.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":173.62409375000001,"end":173.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.06284375,"end":174.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":174.87284375000002,"end":174.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.88971875000001,"end":174.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":175.71659375000002,"end":183.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":175.76721875,"end":177.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.47909375,"end":183.74909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.74909375000001,"end":183.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":183.76596875,"end":184.62659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":183.78284375,"end":185.94284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":184.94721875000002,"end":191.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":189.08159375000002,"end":199.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.31284375,"end":195.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.62846875000002,"end":201.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":200.47221875000002,"end":206.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":205.19721875000002,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":206.96909375,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":207.03659375,"end":207.05346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.05346875,"end":216.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.43596875,"end":227.13471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.22346875000002,"end":227.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":227.26971875,"end":239.55471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":231.08346875,"end":232.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.49221875,"end":235.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.55096875,"end":237.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":239.18346875,"end":246.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.43534375000002,"end":252.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":249.52784375000002,"end":249.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":249.54471875000002,"end":252.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":252.14346875,"end":254.37096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.37096875,"end":256.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.48909375000002,"end":254.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.76721875000004,"end":257.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":257.62784375,"end":261.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":259.93971875,"end":260.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":261.10409375,"end":261.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":261.15471875000003,"end":292.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":265.49159375,"end":266.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.81409375000004,"end":281.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":293.72346875,"end":304.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.44909375000003,"end":295.66409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.60909375,"end":299.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":305.33346875,"end":308.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":307.67909375,"end":308.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":308.97846875000005,"end":309.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.68284375,"end":310.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":311.32409375000003,"end":318.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.85534375000003,"end":314.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":318.56346875,"end":319.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":319.72784375000003,"end":326.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":326.84909375,"end":330.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":330.96659375,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.91096875,"end":364.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":363.45096875,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.41284375000004,"end":364.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":364.42971875,"end":364.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":364.44659375000003,"end":369.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":369.12096875000003,"end":380.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.03159375,"end":374.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":374.62221875,"end":374.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":376.30971875,"end":376.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":376.88346875,"end":377.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":379.87034375,"end":380.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":380.27534375000005,"end":380.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":380.35971875,"end":385.86096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":381.05159375000005,"end":381.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":386.23221875,"end":392.47596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":391.48034375000003,"end":391.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":392.18909375000004,"end":405.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.56659375000004,"end":406.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":406.58346875,"end":406.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":406.60034375000004,"end":407.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":407.98409375,"end":421.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":415.86471875,"end":416.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":417.90659375,"end":419.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":419.18909375000004,"end":428.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.74034375,"end":428.75721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":428.75721875000005,"end":429.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.77409375,"end":432.94221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.58784375000005,"end":435.01784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":435.01784375000005,"end":438.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.03471875,"end":435.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.80659375000005,"end":441.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":441.59909375,"end":446.08784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.08784375000005,"end":446.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":446.56034375,"end":454.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":446.76284375,"end":446.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.77971875000003,"end":446.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":446.96534375000005,"end":447.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.42096875000004,"end":447.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.45784375000005,"end":460.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":456.04409375,"end":456.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":459.48659375000005,"end":468.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.49784375,"end":469.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":469.05471875,"end":471.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.65784375000004,"end":472.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.03721875,"end":479.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.23971875,"end":473.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":473.29034375000003,"end":473.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":475.33221875000004,"end":476.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":478.67346875000004,"end":488.08971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":488.78159375,"end":493.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":494.21534375000005,"end":494.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":495.78471875,"end":500.79659375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":500.99909375000004,"end":512.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":513.0647187500001,"end":515.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.5915937500001,"end":524.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.69159375,"end":528.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.8603437500001,"end":527.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.18471875,"end":530.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":531.3572187500001,"end":536.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.77409375,"end":537.9722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":537.5165937500001,"end":540.4865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.8115937499999,"end":543.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":542.1572187500001,"end":544.0134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.64221875,"end":548.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":546.9328437500001,"end":551.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.97034375,"end":553.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":552.5690937500001,"end":558.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":558.84659375,"end":560.9897187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":561.2934687500001,"end":579.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.10534375,"end":577.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.5690937500001,"end":584.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":583.3997187500001,"end":589.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.6484687500001,"end":587.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":587.65221875,"end":587.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.7703437499999,"end":587.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":587.78721875,"end":587.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.8884687500001,"end":587.9053437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":587.9053437499999,"end":588.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.8672187500001,"end":588.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":588.95159375,"end":588.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":589.77846875,"end":589.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":589.89659375,"end":589.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":589.9809687500001,"end":593.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.45346875,"end":590.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":590.5715937500001,"end":591.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.86221875,"end":598.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":598.5534687500001,"end":599.2622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":598.9922187500001,"end":603.5147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":603.7509687500001,"end":623.8997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":622.29659375,"end":625.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":626.1440937500001,"end":626.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":627.1397187499999,"end":629.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":627.32534375,"end":627.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.0928437499999,"end":630.5990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":630.26159375,"end":637.3997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.4765937500001,"end":631.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":637.70346875,"end":644.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.9053437499999,"end":643.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":645.01034375,"end":655.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":655.7765937500001,"end":658.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":657.41346875,"end":668.1459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":668.23034375,"end":671.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":672.3815937500001,"end":676.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":676.66784375,"end":678.5747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":676.98846875,"end":677.3090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":678.82784375,"end":686.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":678.8615937500001,"end":679.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":686.08409375,"end":686.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":686.97846875,"end":696.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":694.01534375,"end":695.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":696.4284687500001,"end":708.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":696.47909375,"end":696.51284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":696.51284375,"end":698.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":698.4197187500001,"end":698.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":708.35909375,"end":709.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":710.5190937500001,"end":718.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.18034375,"end":723.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":724.1372187500001,"end":725.1497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":725.5547187500001,"end":728.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.45284375,"end":732.49034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":732.96284375,"end":733.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":733.04721875,"end":733.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.08096875,"end":734.2959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":733.1147187500001,"end":733.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":733.23284375,"end":742.4465937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":734.2959687500002,"end":735.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.8147187500001,"end":735.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":743.08784375,"end":745.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.6953437500001,"end":743.88096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":743.88096875,"end":743.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":743.9653437500001,"end":744.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":744.4040937500001,"end":745.7878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":745.02846875,"end":757.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":745.7878437500001,"end":745.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":745.83846875,"end":745.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":745.87221875,"end":746.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":746.86784375,"end":747.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":747.71159375,"end":748.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":755.86221875,"end":758.2078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":758.2078437499999,"end":765.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":758.24159375,"end":759.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":764.56971875,"end":769.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":765.16034375,"end":766.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.4465937500001,"end":774.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":774.2053437500001,"end":805.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":779.20034375,"end":779.4365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":785.8490937500001,"end":787.9753437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.9753437500001,"end":788.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.0047187499999,"end":789.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":789.59534375,"end":789.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":789.9665937500001,"end":791.8059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":791.8059687500001,"end":791.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":791.97471875,"end":792.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":797.5265937500001,"end":800.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":800.02409375,"end":800.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":800.17596875,"end":800.9353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":805.8459687500001,"end":809.2209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":809.2040937500001,"end":809.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":809.4909687500001,"end":811.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":811.6340937500001,"end":818.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":818.72159375,"end":818.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":818.73846875,"end":822.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":822.9740937500001,"end":826.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":826.1297187500002,"end":832.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":832.5422187500001,"end":835.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":835.3603437500001,"end":850.3115937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":850.5478437500001,"end":852.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":853.3828437500001,"end":854.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":855.25596875,"end":861.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":861.90471875,"end":862.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":863.45721875,"end":864.6215937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":865.1953437500001,"end":875.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":871.3884687500001,"end":872.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":873.9197187500001,"end":875.7590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":875.8603437500001,"end":877.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":877.8684687500001,"end":884.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":885.20909375,"end":894.3047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":888.61784375,"end":890.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":893.93346875,"end":894.4734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":894.4734687500002,"end":894.6084687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":894.6084687500002,"end":894.6928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":894.6928437500001,"end":894.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":895.4015937500001,"end":896.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":896.05971875,"end":896.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":896.9709687500001,"end":910.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":910.80846875,"end":911.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":912.63096875,"end":914.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":922.65471875,"end":923.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":934.5178437500001,"end":934.9397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":940.52534375,"end":941.5884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":942.29721875,"end":947.0222187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.091,"end":0.111,"text":"卑詩"},{"start":10.417,"end":38.24,"text":"葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎"},{"start":40.101,"end":68.315,"text":"因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦"},{"start":69.255,"end":97.743,"text":"認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實"},{"start":98.743,"end":117.937,"text":"就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說"},{"start":120.358,"end":141.729,"text":"舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機 冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面 因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待"},{"start":142.669,"end":168.659,"text":"執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候"},{"start":169.992,"end":197.704,"text":"11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發"},{"start":198.644,"end":225.695,"text":"這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛"},{"start":226.195,"end":246.363,"text":"本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久"},{"start":247.538,"end":264.471,"text":"研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取"},{"start":265.952,"end":292.377,"text":"因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項"},{"start":293.646,"end":309.697,"text":"但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊"},{"start":311.359,"end":334.741,"text":"但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放"},{"start":337.628,"end":364.165,"text":"基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是"},{"start":364.805,"end":392.307,"text":"對 但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡 身分證 郵局 還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好 謝謝"},{"start":393.167,"end":397.951,"text":"再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的"},{"start":406.721,"end":422.571,"text":"支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右"},{"start":435.026,"end":443.071,"text":"是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎"},{"start":454.958,"end":469.291,"text":"也不一定 因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員 因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼"},{"start":477.678,"end":494.429,"text":"匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個"},{"start":495.816,"end":513.791,"text":"因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎"},{"start":516.878,"end":530.474,"text":"巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚 聚落 Cluster我知道 我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案"},{"start":531.414,"end":546.497,"text":"就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落"},{"start":547.217,"end":571.981,"text":"這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的"},{"start":572.541,"end":597.816,"text":"過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會 我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下 我還沒有講等一下 等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點"},{"start":598.916,"end":626.224,"text":"因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊"},{"start":627.199,"end":655.08,"text":"沒有 他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個 曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧 這是有的"},{"start":655.919,"end":674.634,"text":"我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標"},{"start":676.736,"end":693.753,"text":"那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔"},{"start":696.716,"end":709.326,"text":"不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是"},{"start":710.54,"end":728.53,"text":"羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是 我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆 小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們"},{"start":729.631,"end":741.999,"text":"食料 我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎"},{"start":744.193,"end":769.043,"text":"我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分 整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會 聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對 它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的"},{"start":769.543,"end":795.19,"text":"一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會 這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高"},{"start":796.03,"end":813.593,"text":"那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是"},{"start":815.273,"end":834.807,"text":"兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億"},{"start":835.507,"end":860.437,"text":"所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西"},{"start":863.793,"end":884.049,"text":"這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面"},{"start":885.642,"end":914.083,"text":"那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項 有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方"},{"start":922.679,"end":944.558,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝馨 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":971,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時16分）主席好。麻煩請卓院長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：院長好。早上聽你的報告，你提到現在發這一萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過，可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力，我覺得您這種態度就對了。早上我也看到您很委屈地在澄清，就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發、可不發，或者是沒有說可發然後不發。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：你在澄清嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：希望趕快拿到。"],["葉委員元之：因為你一開始的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一開始是希望政府不舉債，我們用到需要的地方去。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！但是你講話的方式，我現在建議你，不要造成國人的誤會，因為你一開始就說1萬塊遙控飛機買了、冰箱買了就沒了，好像這1萬塊大家沒有什麼需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望國家需要的地方，我們積沙成塔用在那個地方去。"],["葉委員元之：然後你也知道，還有你們執政黨的立委也有講說，發1萬塊錢就是配合中共窮臺、認知作戰或統戰啦，講得好像領這1萬塊錢很不堪啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛也有委員質疑我們舉債在增高，這也是有相關。"],["葉委員元之：我還沒講完，我這只是建議啦，如果一開始的時候，其實大家採取比較正面的態度，用討論的、用促成的方式，而不是一直批評。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦，對國家的價值認定不同。"],["葉委員元之：院長，就像您今天早上的態度，讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實，就很棒啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們已經……"],["葉委員元之：就是因為之前變來變去，態度前後變來變去，大家才會產生這樣的疑慮啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們已經決定要舉債了，我們就可以發出去的比較多，就是這樣子而已。"],["葉委員元之：你講的跟我講的是不同的事情，我講的是你的態度前後不一樣啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是同樣的事情啦！"],["葉委員元之：你之前要舉債或現在要舉債不是一樣？而且你編了很多其他的預算嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：之前我們是希望不舉債。"],["葉委員元之：舉債也不純粹是因為這個事情才舉債。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在編韌性條例跟預算的時候，我們是希望讓4,100億這筆錢是不舉債的。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，有的東西跟舉債沒有關係，你有的是講話態度的問題，包括遙控飛機、冰箱……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是有時候國會也好、國人也好，也認為政府舉債太多。"],["葉委員元之：所以我很快的跟你確定一下幾個部分，現在在時程上面，因為既然要發了，我覺得大家就會很期待，時程上如果10月中可以送出立法院，我也有看你對其他委員的回答，做了很多先前作業等等這些東西，可不可以給一個比較明確的日期？10月底感覺比較有困難，因為早上的回答是說比較有困難，大概什麼時候之前一定做得到？總是要有個目標，不然老是講一個比較空洞的，大家會比較……"],["卓院長榮泰：一個月。"],["葉委員元之：一個月大概是什麼時候？11月中以前一定會發？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是大院審理完成通過之後，總統公告之後一個月。"],["葉委員元之：假設10月中一定送出去的話，你是11月中以前一定會發，一個月嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為總統也好，我們也會請總統能夠儘速公告，它就生效，生效之後一個月內就可以發放。"],["葉委員元之：就是一個月嘛！所以簡單的數學……"],["卓院長榮泰：差不多、差不多。"],["葉委員元之：10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發，這是確定的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是，法律規定。"],["葉委員元之：但是如果動作更快的話就可以更早嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：能快就快。"],["葉委員元之：就可以更早，這個是時程……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延。"],["葉委員元之：對啦，那個是細節，我講的就是一個月，就是11月中，謝謝，大家就是至少11月中就可以有這個期待。","第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的，包括登記入帳、ATM領取、郵局領取、直接入帳及造冊發放？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，五種。"],["葉委員元之：不會再多了嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：本來就沒有再多啊！"],["葉委員元之：在系統的設計上也不會變來變去嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，這是確定的。"],["葉委員元之：我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去，一下說要研議不領取的選項，一下又說不用研議不領取的選項。"],["卓院長榮泰：當民間團體來跟我們做這種意見表達的時候，我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能。"],["葉委員元之：那你研議了多久？"],["卓院長榮泰：研議完全不影響這個程序啊！我9月11號……"],["葉委員元之：那你有研議嗎？你們研議之後是覺得有什麼因素所以不做？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們認為這個對個資的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險，所以我們就停下來。"],["葉委員元之：其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設不領取的選項嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，任何來陳情的……"],["葉委員元之：其實你們到最後發放完之後，都可以確定有多少人是不領取，就以2023年的發放為例，最後是有7萬人不領取。我怎麼知道呢？因為最後就算得出來啊！所以你去增設一個不領取的選項，這就是多此一舉啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有增設。"],["葉委員元之：因為您是行政院長，您講話都會讓人家覺得會往這個方向去做，院長說要研議不領取，大家就覺得到時候會不會真的出現不領取的選項，但是實際上你們兩個都在搖頭，所以根本不可能嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：研議的過程完全沒有延誤任何的時間。"],["葉委員元之：所以院長在用詞遣字方面可能要稍微留意一下，因為你講一句話，國人就討論了，國人就會覺得：哇噻，連這個都要設不領取喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員有很多建議我們也都是研議啊！"],["葉委員元之：但是我們的建議很多都有建設性啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["葉委員元之：再來我想順便問一下，剛剛講有五種領取方式，但在光復鄉那邊，有的人證件被沖走了，有的ATM也被沖走，ATM也沒有了，請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：基本上我們還是維持這樣的方式，因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月，當然我們要先協助光復鄉的國人能夠儘快把相關的證件補辦起來，因為他除了領1萬塊之外，還有其他也需要使用。我想各部會都在協助他們，不管是健保卡、身分證等等都在協助，如果特別有需要的話，我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式來處理。"],["葉委員元之：專案方式是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，但是目前六個月的時間其實是夠長的，我想那個時候證件應該都補齊了。"],["葉委員元之：你們第一個就是想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊，然後ATM的這些設施趕快恢復，但如果真的有特殊狀況，還會用專案來處理。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們再來做專案處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是用一站式的服務，健保卡、身分證、郵局還有農會，如果需要這個證件，我們用一站式的服務，而且據我們所知，現在戶政所已經恢復它的基本功能了。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。","再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算，現在針對產業支持是規劃了780億，請問這780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的？"],["卓院長榮泰：支持產業的部分？"],["葉委員元之：對，因為你用對等關稅32%或者是20%所評估出來的產業支持預算規模應該是不一樣的，那780億的底牌是根據什麼樣的依據？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝，請部長來詳細說明。在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候，我們是用高推估30%……"],["葉委員元之：是百分之多少？現在的780億是根據百分之多少估出來的？"],["龔部長明鑫：事實上大致上也是差不多30%左右。"],["葉委員元之：用30%？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["葉委員元之：就是關稅30%？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為我們那時候是用20%、25%、30%這樣……"],["葉委員元之：換句話說，因為現在關稅是20%+N……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，但是……"],["葉委員元之：如果現在繼續談，談到後來假設20%可以降下來，就不會花到780億這麼多，是這個意思嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：也不一定，因為談的過程當中，我們可能也會有一些讓利。"],["葉委員元之：你當初是比較高估，因為政府一直告訴我們20%+N是暫時性關稅，理論上按照政府講話的邏輯應該關稅會降，應該不會往上升到30%，應該不會吧！"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅而已，還有其他的……"],["葉委員元之：我知道啦，還有什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：可能匯率或其他的問題。"],["葉委員元之：OK，所以這是一個粗估嘛！780億是一個粗估，最後用多少不知道，剛剛部長也講了，國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多，不確定性很高。我在這邊提醒幾個部分，我想請教一下，今天美方傳出來的消息是希望我們的晶片五五分，但我們的政府已經拒絕，然後我們提出來一個方案是擴大去美國投資可以用G to G的方式，類似在美國成立科學園區，這個事情是確實的嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，臺灣產業的成功有一個型態，就是一個群聚、聚落（cluster）。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我就是確認一下，因為我們……"],["龔部長明鑫：過去來講，我們這個群聚常常……"],["葉委員元之：是不是確定我們有提這個方案，就是鼓勵我們的企業整合，然後去那邊設科學園區，是不是有提出這樣的方案？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，我們是……"],["葉委員元之：有沒有？沒關係，因為時間有限……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們跟美方表達產業要成功的話，一定要形成一個聚落。"],["葉委員元之：好，這個我知道，我是問有沒有這件事，有還是沒有嘛？有沒有？"],["龔部長明鑫：園區是一個型態……"],["葉委員元之：我們有嘛，好，那就是有嘛，為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆？不要拖時間，因為我們時間有限。","我是想問，你有考慮到整個產業過去之後，因為它還要帶那個產業鏈，然後很多企業會過去，假設以科學園區的規模的話，那麼多公司的投資資本是有限的，過去投資多一點，在臺灣投資就會少一點，可能會造成臺灣產業空洞化……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["葉委員元之：經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會，我們一定先立足臺灣、布局全球，所以立足臺灣一定先……"],["葉委員元之：當然口號是這樣……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟委員報告，跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：可是資本就是這樣，它的資本過去之後……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，我還沒有講……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟你講……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，等一下，還沒有講。它的資本就是這麼多，它投資美國的資本比較多，當然投資臺灣就會少一點……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["葉委員元之：因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源，你現在主要都是用民間資源。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，如果它那邊有訂單，可以形成經濟規模，它當然會過去，但是有一些小的企業沒有辦法，可能只能取一地而已。在這種情況下，我們會要求它的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在臺灣做，然後供應給它，所以才形成一個互動……"],["葉委員元之：那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模，對呀。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，它可以跟我們形成一個很好的產業鏈……"],["葉委員元之：我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G to G成立一個科學園區的規模，我是擔心投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化，你沒有回答我的問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：我說不會，我剛剛有講不會。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，你們曾經有一個方案是鼓勵我們的企業跟美國買農產品，大概4年要100億美金，對吧？這是有的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們的公協會跟一些主要的產業……"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，然後也不會用到納稅人的錢，但是這可能也會造成一個問題，因為我看到一些企業，像卜蜂或者台糖，他們的說法是他們也願意配合企業，可是他們以前在買東西的時候，因為可以跟各國去買，現在如果要擴大跟美國投資，變成規格標，那勢必會提高成本……"],["龔部長明鑫：不是、不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我想它有3個思考，再請部長……"],["葉委員元之：會提高成本……"],["卓院長榮泰：就是我們進口需要的，我們從各方來買，另外……"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["葉委員元之：我講的是企業直接的回復。我提醒一下，我還沒講完，你們都一直打斷我。奇怪，院長帶頭，部長打斷……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們大概知道你的問題。"],["葉委員元之：這麼害怕我講喔？"],["龔部長明鑫：我知道委員的關心。"],["葉委員元之：不用害怕，我一句話都還沒論述完，你就一直打岔，這樣我很難問問題，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["葉委員元之：像卜蜂、台糖他們的說法，他們說如果形成規格標的話，成本會上揚。現在就是羊毛出在羊身上，如果他們的成本上揚，物價勢必會往上攀升，會影響到物價，政府對這部分有因應嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：委員，我可以回答嗎？現在的狀況是這樣，我們需要美國的黃小玉，就是黃豆、小麥等等，那個是我們養豬的飼料，現在……"],["葉委員元之：不是，部長可不可以針對問題回答？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，因為這樣……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛講說卜蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法，你去講到黃小玉幹嘛？卜蜂是買黃小玉嗎？不要拖時間，這樣我有1小時都不夠啦。"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，台糖是……飼料啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：飼料。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為這是農業部在協助的。"],["龔部長明鑫：都是買飼料。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，整個農訪團的裡面，您剛剛講的卜蜂，就是卜蜂的飼料公會一起的……"],["葉委員元之：會不會造成物價上漲？會不會？"],["陳部長駿季：不會，聯合採購反而會降低它的進口成本。"],["葉委員元之：不會，所以不會造成物價上漲？"],["陳部長駿季：對，它反而會降低進口成本。"],["葉委員元之：OK，好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：我把3個原則講一下，一個是我們進口需要的，一個是畜牧業買飼料需要的，第三個是要保護消費者的權益，有這3個原則。"],["葉委員元之：對，可是企業的邏輯是，以前它有需要，可以跟各國去買，現在如果是配合政府，擴大只跟單一國家買，它認為成本會提高……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["陳部長駿季：這個是聯合採購，反而……"],["葉委員元之：這個是企業的憂慮，你覺得不會，你要講一個……要跟人家溝通嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：大量聯合採購更有利於談判。"],["葉委員元之：因為成本提高，我擔心的是物價會提高……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["葉委員元之：你如果認為不會，你們可以跟企業講。"],["卓院長榮泰：不過也謝謝委員的提醒，我們一定會注意到業界的變化。"],["葉委員元之：再來，因為我沒有很多時間，我希望不要一直打岔，我想問一下預算的問題。明年總預算送過來是3兆350億嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["葉委員元之：比今年的總預算還高，因為今年最後決算是兩兆九千多億，明年的預算又變多了……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果加上追加預算的話，明年比今年只會多222億。"],["葉委員元之：反正明年有變多，第一個，明年變多；第二個，中央要給地方的錢一直在砍，比如說我來自新北市，你們給我們新北市捷運的砍了大概90億、明年就砍了90億，所以在中央的預算膨脹、給地方錢又變少的情況之下，明年中央可支用的預算其實變比較多，多很多！按照你們現在的規劃。","我現在有兩個問題，第一個，因為我們今天討論的是韌性部分，有很多預算看起來不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡，比如像這一個要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫，這個東西當然我覺得要做，可是實際上這個跟年度預算又很像，請問一下，明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為當時……沒有特別……"],["葉委員元之：沒有編這個項目？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們考慮到關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊，所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧，因此編在這個裡面。"],["葉委員元之：那年度預算裡面有沒有編強化獨居……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有把這一項單獨拉出來，沒有單獨這一項……"],["葉委員元之：所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人、都沒有在關懷獨居老人？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有、沒有重疊！"],["葉委員元之：沒有重疊？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有單獨這一項，有一般的社會福利。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，我想問一下，因為現在地方政府常常感覺是開盲盒，譬如我剛剛講的捷運，他去跟中央申請補助的時候，中央忽然講說：對不起，明年我少給你72%。他說：我現在才知道！為什麼不能一次跟地方講清楚公式是什麼、要怎麼減，讓大家有一個心理準備？而不是行文過去之後才說我要減你這一塊。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也是被少掉4,165億。"],["葉委員元之：你們少是一回事，但是為什麼不事先告知？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於財劃法的問題，我希望我們還有更充裕的時間好好的來討論，大家拿出討論的內容……"],["葉委員元之：應該先討論，而不是說：我就不給你了。讓大家認為原來是不給……"],["卓院長榮泰：不過也要讓地方能夠編得出預算。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，我們上午質詢到此為止，下午2點繼續開會，進行特別預算報告之質詢。謝謝王育敏委員、也謝謝魯明哲委員陪同我們一起參與今天特別預算的報告。現在休息。","休息（12時32分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},{"id":"163801","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163801","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b8904e7b79f76472cff3704543300bdabf021764375d49d526b92cfcc21c557743ff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"12:00:11 - 12:15:43","影片長度":"00:15:32","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T12:00:11+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T12:15:43+08:00","duration":932,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.06471875,"end":0.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":1.6340937500000001,"end":2.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2.83221875,"end":4.570343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.232843750000001,"end":5.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":6.03846875,"end":7.287218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.98346875,"end":8.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":9.71721875,"end":10.425968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.814093750000001,"end":12.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.383468750000002,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.704093750000002,"end":30.777218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.50284375,"end":49.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":49.221593750000004,"end":58.384718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.789718750000006,"end":59.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.30846875,"end":70.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":70.75409375000001,"end":77.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.21284375,"end":87.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":88.35471875,"end":92.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.11784375,"end":95.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":96.37034375,"end":97.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":98.46284375,"end":98.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.42471875000001,"end":105.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":106.98471875000001,"end":108.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":110.39346875000001,"end":113.71784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":114.83159375000001,"end":115.62471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":116.41784375,"end":116.77221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":117.37971875000001,"end":119.18534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":119.86034375000001,"end":124.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":125.56409375000001,"end":139.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":139.36784375000002,"end":143.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.63721875000002,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.86471875,"end":158.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.22971875000002,"end":162.13221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":162.68909375,"end":164.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.06409375,"end":173.26971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.89409375000002,"end":176.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":177.11721875,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":187.79909375000003,"end":197.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":197.85659375,"end":204.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":205.38284375,"end":208.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":208.77471875,"end":211.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":212.21721875,"end":213.71909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":214.46159375000002,"end":217.33034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":217.58346875,"end":228.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":228.85596875000002,"end":229.22721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":230.23971875,"end":230.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":231.38721875000002,"end":231.79221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":232.33221875,"end":232.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.12534375,"end":236.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.61846875,"end":239.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":238.54221875000002,"end":239.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.01034375,"end":240.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":240.22971875000002,"end":241.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":244.11096875,"end":244.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":246.11909375000002,"end":246.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":246.69284375,"end":247.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":249.39284375000003,"end":249.98346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":250.33784375000002,"end":251.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.67096875000001,"end":252.48096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":253.35846875000001,"end":253.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":254.03346875000003,"end":254.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":255.24846875000003,"end":263.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":264.51284375,"end":271.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":272.14034375,"end":273.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":273.42284375,"end":274.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":275.32971875000004,"end":276.76409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.00034375,"end":277.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":278.14784375,"end":279.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":280.15596875,"end":281.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":281.65784375000004,"end":282.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":283.32846875,"end":284.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.20159375000003,"end":288.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":288.88034375,"end":292.37346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":292.49159375,"end":297.33471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.67221875,"end":304.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":304.75971875000005,"end":311.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":313.01159375000003,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":328.60409375,"end":330.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":331.16909375,"end":338.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.69096875,"end":343.57221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":343.13346875,"end":370.15034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":370.43721875,"end":382.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":382.60409375,"end":385.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":386.08034375,"end":389.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.04221875,"end":387.64971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":389.30346875000004,"end":393.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.50534375,"end":398.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.48346875000004,"end":406.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.44846875,"end":410.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":410.85284375000003,"end":413.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":414.12659375000004,"end":416.82659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":417.07971875000004,"end":418.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":418.53096875,"end":420.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":420.82596875,"end":421.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":421.95659375,"end":424.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":424.92659375000005,"end":425.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.42846875000004,"end":427.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":427.81221875,"end":430.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":430.46159375,"end":432.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":432.33471875000004,"end":433.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.12784375,"end":434.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.89971875000003,"end":435.57471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":435.70971875000004,"end":437.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.75159375000004,"end":442.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":442.59471875,"end":443.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.40471875000003,"end":448.55159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":448.78784375000004,"end":450.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":450.67784375,"end":460.63409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":460.76909375,"end":466.72596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":466.96221875000003,"end":468.71721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":469.05471875,"end":471.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":471.55221875,"end":480.71534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":481.22159375,"end":483.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.82034375,"end":484.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":485.06909375000004,"end":485.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":486.82409375000003,"end":490.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":490.40159375,"end":491.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":492.32534375000006,"end":493.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":494.01284375000006,"end":495.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.76784375000005,"end":496.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":496.47659375,"end":498.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.46784375000004,"end":499.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":502.66971875,"end":505.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":505.99409375000005,"end":506.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":507.49596875000003,"end":510.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":510.78659375,"end":512.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":513.0647187500001,"end":516.3215937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":516.5578437500001,"end":520.70909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":521.28284375,"end":525.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":525.61971875,"end":526.9865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":527.8303437500001,"end":529.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":529.3997187500001,"end":534.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":535.49159375,"end":537.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":537.90471875,"end":540.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":540.53721875,"end":542.0222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":542.22471875,"end":543.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":543.7265937500001,"end":545.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":545.65034375,"end":546.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":548.0972187500001,"end":549.0590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":549.58221875,"end":550.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":551.08409375,"end":560.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":561.10784375,"end":562.4072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":562.8290937500001,"end":566.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":566.84534375,"end":567.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":568.53284375,"end":571.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.2834687500001,"end":571.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":572.2959687499999,"end":576.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":576.4809687500001,"end":577.7803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":578.1853437500001,"end":578.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":579.24846875,"end":582.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":583.14659375,"end":587.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":588.20909375,"end":591.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":591.85409375,"end":592.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.2547187499999,"end":593.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":594.80721875,"end":599.7009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":600.3759687500001,"end":601.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":602.02971875,"end":614.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":616.5928437499999,"end":618.9553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.9465937500001,"end":622.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":622.3134687500001,"end":624.0178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":624.5915937500001,"end":628.7765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":629.9409687500001,"end":630.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":631.66221875,"end":634.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":635.1047187500001,"end":636.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":636.8259687500001,"end":639.0703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":639.84659375,"end":645.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":646.29284375,"end":647.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.98034375,"end":650.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":652.0303437499999,"end":660.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":660.78846875,"end":664.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":664.73721875,"end":669.6984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":670.49159375,"end":673.29284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":674.5078437500001,"end":674.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":675.3347187500001,"end":676.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":676.54971875,"end":678.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":679.67159375,"end":681.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":681.74721875,"end":683.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":683.72159375,"end":684.2278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.71721875,"end":685.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":685.66221875,"end":688.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":690.33659375,"end":691.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":691.16346875,"end":692.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":693.3740937500002,"end":694.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":694.84221875,"end":699.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":699.7865937500001,"end":700.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":701.15346875,"end":704.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":705.49034375,"end":705.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":706.4353437500001,"end":707.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":707.7009687500001,"end":717.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":718.0790937500001,"end":725.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":726.1284687500001,"end":726.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":726.8372187500001,"end":731.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":731.5959687500001,"end":732.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":733.90784375,"end":735.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":736.2365937500001,"end":745.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":746.02409375,"end":750.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":751.1372187500001,"end":753.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":753.7022187500002,"end":756.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":756.72284375,"end":757.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":757.9040937500001,"end":766.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":766.96596875,"end":768.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":769.34534375,"end":769.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":770.9822187500001,"end":771.75846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":772.16346875,"end":773.3953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.74971875,"end":790.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":776.8547187500001,"end":776.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.97284375,"end":777.1922187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":790.74284375,"end":796.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":796.0247187500001,"end":799.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":800.41221875,"end":808.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":809.32221875,"end":811.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":811.3303437500001,"end":812.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":812.69721875,"end":814.5703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":814.9753437500001,"end":816.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":816.35909375,"end":818.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":819.02534375,"end":820.6115937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":821.26971875,"end":822.7040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":822.80534375,"end":824.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":825.7078437500002,"end":833.8247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":834.2465937500001,"end":834.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.5459687500002,"end":837.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":837.82409375,"end":839.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":839.3259687500001,"end":841.4353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":841.78971875,"end":843.2747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":843.5278437500001,"end":846.5147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":846.86909375,"end":855.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":856.25159375,"end":857.3315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":857.50034375,"end":858.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":859.37346875,"end":860.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":861.3984687500001,"end":864.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":864.68909375,"end":866.4609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":866.69721875,"end":872.0972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":872.0972187500001,"end":875.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":875.7084687500001,"end":876.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":877.04159375,"end":879.4209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":879.6572187500001,"end":883.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":883.7240937500001,"end":893.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":894.2709687500001,"end":896.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":897.9328437500001,"end":906.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":907.87221875,"end":915.19596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":926.7890937500001,"end":932.08784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.81,"end":30.407,"text":"我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好 辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近"},{"start":32.289,"end":48.499,"text":"460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合"},{"start":49.42,"end":77.051,"text":"台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開"},{"start":78.291,"end":104.422,"text":"那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張"},{"start":107.062,"end":124.498,"text":"第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣"},{"start":125.852,"end":142.594,"text":"價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅"},{"start":143.715,"end":161.587,"text":"然後呢 我們的國產車呢 我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較 從安全科技 甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話 可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢 在九月三十號 幾天前而已嘛 三天前而已"},{"start":166.688,"end":175.896,"text":"國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台"},{"start":187.864,"end":217.014,"text":"本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星"},{"start":217.694,"end":233.668,"text":"所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長 莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾% 17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢"},{"start":246.161,"end":254.13,"text":"你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅"},{"start":264.691,"end":282.07,"text":"當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項"},{"start":283.391,"end":310.957,"text":"半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣"},{"start":313.052,"end":338.377,"text":"晶片怎麼搞 半導體怎麼搞 電池關聯 我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5% 乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講 第一個 不公平第二個 我們的產業 我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣 有一個國際上的一個大品牌"},{"start":339.667,"end":353.946,"text":"我不曉得部長你的看法 或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話"},{"start":354.867,"end":381.86,"text":"也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用"},{"start":382.68,"end":410.376,"text":"是 我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人"},{"start":410.896,"end":413.438,"text":"所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望"},{"start":426.745,"end":449.605,"text":"過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要"},{"start":450.657,"end":450.937,"text":"應該啊 我們整個國家"},{"start":471.618,"end":497.815,"text":"我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些 應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人 還要跟這些人輸人漏氣 兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢"},{"start":503.071,"end":526.705,"text":"我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的"},{"start":528.204,"end":546.59,"text":"經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期"},{"start":548.774,"end":562.039,"text":"1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了"},{"start":562.898,"end":591.929,"text":"那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那"},{"start":593.288,"end":618.83,"text":"大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了"},{"start":621.204,"end":630.662,"text":"趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民"},{"start":631.664,"end":650.647,"text":"你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田"},{"start":652.056,"end":672.99,"text":"他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊"},{"start":674.594,"end":691.561,"text":"所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導"},{"start":693.487,"end":702.574,"text":"西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89% 將近98%的就是花東"},{"start":706.502,"end":734.958,"text":"山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有 沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個 平等原則"},{"start":736.26,"end":756.908,"text":"大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有"},{"start":757.95,"end":760.915,"text":"魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長"},{"start":771.001,"end":789.899,"text":"你起來之後 當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市 是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年 你說啊 你就達到 你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前 你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素 喊卡的"},{"start":790.8,"end":808.602,"text":"是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義"},{"start":809.383,"end":834.45,"text":"關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個"},{"start":835.598,"end":860.403,"text":"要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點"},{"start":861.443,"end":888.06,"text":"跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊"},{"start":889.381,"end":914.978,"text":"這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在"},{"start":926.832,"end":928.633,"text":"好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":942,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（12時）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：財政部莊部長。"],["主席：麻煩請財政部長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：經濟部龔部長。"],["主席：麻煩請經濟部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長好，辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我有幾個問題要來就教院長，從你上任到現在，我們也聽到院長一直提到，要加強臺灣的韌性，尤其是產業的韌性，要強化國安跟經濟安全。經濟部也編列了將近460億的韌性特別預算，其中本席看到提升產業競爭力、開拓多元市場，還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項措施，這四項措施本席認為很符合臺灣汽車產業的需要，我這邊要跟院長或者兩位部長做一些現況的描述。","現在臺灣整個汽車產業高稅制，它其實對消費者產生很大的不公平，還有外銷也因為競爭力不足，遲遲沒有辦法打開。即便這一次我們把特別條例的上限拉到5,700億，甚至每一個人發放1萬塊，希望來刺激消費，但坦白講，1萬塊對於汽車產業來說，連買一個輪子都不夠。本席要提出，我先讓院長跟兩位部長看一下，這三輛車是國產的，外面的車型不一樣而已，內裝都是國產的，這是第一張；來看第二張，院長，第二張看起來就比較豐富一點了。其實它們的價位都一樣，兩張圖片呈現出來的就是，長期臺灣汽車產業真實的困境是，我們用高稅額去保護我們國產車的市場，得到的是進口車就必須要被課重稅，然後我們的國產車，我也不敢說它的品質落後，但是相對去做比較，從安全、科技，甚至於內裝、材料，跟其他的進口車來比較的話，確實我們是輸人家一點。","尤其在9月30號，3天前而已，國產車的商用貨車在臺灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星，部長應該知道這件事，兩位部長應該都知道，這個撞擊測試零顆星的貨車從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了1萬1,000台，本席要講的是，撞出史上零顆星，車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準，安全無虞。而國產的轎車在6月26號臺灣撞擊測試裡面是得到3顆星，可是相對於其他國家，不管是中國也好，或者是韓國跟我們同等級的車也好，用歐盟的規格撞擊測試，人家得到5顆星，所以本席覺得非常感慨，我們用這樣高關稅的保護，卻沒有換來我們在國際上的競爭力。莊部長，我們現在進口車的稅率是多少？17.5%嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：進口車的關稅是17.5%。"],["莊委員瑞雄：日本0%；中國15%；歐盟10%；美國2.5%。我們這麼高的稅率還不打緊，我們課完17.5%以後還加一個25%的貨物稅，當然當年是基於什麼樣的考量，這幾十年來我們為了保護我們整個國產車，可是保護到最後，這樣子很可惜。本席要講的是，未來的汽車其實都是電動化、智慧化，這是我們的強項，半導體也是我們的強項，電池管理也是我們的強項，晶片也是我們的強項，是不是我們國家汽車產業的政策應該來做個轉變？資源如何去做整合？像幾十年前，我們做汽車就輸別人，不論是技術打造或精密的，假設我們都輸，我們就沒辦法出去國際市場，可是接下來整個汽車就是像一部行動電腦一樣，晶片方面我們也厲害，半導體方面我們也厲害，甚至是電池管理方面，我們都是世界一流，那就沒有理由我們的汽車產業還必須要用高關稅，先乘一個17.5%，乘完以後再乘一個25%，對消費者來講，第一個、不公平，第二個、我們的產業沒有辦法像我們的科技產業一樣創出一個國際上的大品牌。不曉得兩位部長的看法或者院長的看法如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：先跟委員報告，2,000cc以下小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了，第一個、汰舊換新可以減徵5萬，另外新購的話，也可以減5萬，所以如果是汰舊換新、購買新車的話，是可以減10萬。另外就是電動車，電動車的貨物稅是0%，然後使用牌照稅也是0%，所以這兩個都沒有，其實就有鼓勵民眾導向電動車，以及鼓勵產業在這個部分能夠往電動車來做發展，這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了，而且貨物稅方面，不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是。龔部長，我的意思就是，我們的強項這麼多……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所謂的國產車，基本上是有分成國內的品牌，另外一種就是像和泰，它是代Toyota的，它的母公司是在日本，但是它還是算國產車，然後這些國產車，包括和泰，還有零組件，他們總共加起來的就業人數還是有2、30萬人。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們這個就比較本位主義了，我要就教院長的是，我們國家有那麼多強項，我們卻走不出去，真的很可惜！院長，你的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候，就是針對這樣的一個重點，過去採取高稅率保護的時代，到現在來看，我覺得那是不合時宜的，過去是產業剛萌芽、剛要發展，也希望能夠帶動國內的產業，到現在為止，誠如委員所說的，國內產業在相當領域當中已經很強了，所以對汽車業的保護應該用跟過去不一樣的眼光來看，我們希望它能夠進入到國際市場，甚至在國內就要自己有競爭力，要能夠跟國際競爭的車，我們才能夠進入到國際市場，所以一方面要培植自己的競爭力，一方面我們從國際的方向來做思考。再加上現在還在進行的種種的關稅談判，在還沒有定案之前，我們先把貨物稅降下來，未來我們還會有進一步的作為。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我希望我們國家在卓院長帶領的團隊裡面，汽車產業因應現在整個條件的變化，我們的強項已經這麼多了，應該要整合資源，創造出我們自己的國際品牌。明明我們每一項都贏別人，結果只有這一項輸別人，真的是漏氣！","兩位部長請回，接下來請內政部劉部長。"],["主席：麻煩請內政部長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長，我們今天一直在談韌性，我一直在想，在韌性裡面我特別要提出來的是，糧食安全其實是國土安全的基礎，農民的權益更是社會韌性的底座，土地正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環。臺灣早期的經濟發展，其實站在它背後的是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民，所以要談韌性，這個部分才是臺灣最重要要談的韌性。","戰後公地放領有三個階段，從早期1951年到1976年，為了配合耕者有其田，分9期釋出了14萬甲的土地，我們也培養出20萬個自耕農，但是後來終止掉了，這個很可惜！接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放領，大家都符合資格啊！你既然要放領，國家收了那麼多土地回來，1989年的時候，針對林場、合作社、實驗林等個案，又去做一個放領。可是1994年到2002年的時候，為了要彌補這個停辦的不一致，又開始去放領，我相信這些院長都很清楚。大家都知道中華民國政府到臺灣是沒有帶半片土地來的，在清朝的時候，哪有土地登記制度？沒有土地登記制度！是到了日本政府來殖民的時候，開始去做土地調查，做土地調查的時候，有些土地登記了。國民政府來了把日本人趕走，趕走以後接收了這麼多的日產，然後國民政府來了以後，實施土地總登記。以前很多農民，像我爺爺或我曾祖父他們那一代沒讀過書，哪懂什麼叫做登記？第二個、228的陰影又在，既然都已經三階段符合條件，政府把這些公地給收回來了，就是要放領給農民，實施耕者有其田，以前如果我或者韓院長都是大地主，我們有100甲上等田，只可以留下1.5甲，其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走，收走的理由是要耕者有其田、要放領給廣大的農民，可是沒有，政府就收走了，也沒有普遍去放領！所以從當初收歸國有就不正義，政府把人家的地收走了，卻沒有放給農民，這是第一個。第二個、同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作，有的人有公地放領到，西部的有，南部的也有，有的縣市就跳過去，花東又變成沒有。我看全臺灣公有地占最多89%、將近90%的就是花東，因為山林、保安林就占了一大堆，那是國有，當然沒話講。可是問題是對於長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的人，雖然過去政府也實施公地放領的政策，到最後卻因為921大地震、桃芝颱風喊卡。院長、部長，剛好我們現在在大南澳試辦、重啟，本席倒認為：第一個、平等原則，大家都符合內政部的資格，資格是內政部審核的，如果審核通過以後，怎麼他有？怎麼那個縣市有？屏東沒有，臺東沒有，花蓮沒有，本席認為這個就不公平。以臺東來看，現在經過內政部2004年核定未放領的土地有777筆、162公頃，這是國產署的統計。剛好我們看到卓院長上任之後，大南澳你們去試辦了，對其他的縣市是不是符合政府自己所設定的標準，比如1976年、達到長期在耕種的？即本來1976年以前就在耕作的，政府就是要放領給你，因為什麼因素喊卡的，是不是應該藉著這個機會重啟？我要請部長或者院長比較明確的答復，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我先答復一下委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下來的問題，我們現在如果能夠把它解決，我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義，尤其是委員所說的土地正義。關於大南澳這件事情，因為它過去有您剛剛說過的幾個階段性，它曾經在過去的處理當中同意過放領，後來因為某種原因停下來了，所以我們現在認為如果這樣把程序完成，這是第一部分。第二部分就是還有沒有其他也是有同樣條件的，曾經同意過、現在停下來，我們全面再檢視一次。第三部分、要完全貫徹土地正義就要全面的檢討，如果沒有涉及到國家安全，沒有涉及到公共安全，而且現在土地所有權沒有任何紛爭，那有歷史上的證明，它應該可以釋放給現在使用的或是過去曾有使用證明的這些人。我們願意做這樣全面性的檢討，那麼檢討的過程，內政部、財政部都要通力盤點跟必要的勾稽，對證起來，我們確信就依這三個先後順序來做。從大南澳先試辦，有同意過的，我們可以比照辦理，另外進行全面性的檢討。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，我剛剛所提到的，按照院長的講法，臺東現在這777筆、一百多公頃，是內政部曾經同意過的，我們就要去把它開啟了，我在這個地方百分之一萬地來肯定整個卓院長的團隊，這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債，該還了啦，這筆債你本來就該還，像那個台拓地、還有海埔新生地，我都還沒講耶！政府鼓勵人家去開墾，墾了以後是你的，結果到最後政府說：停！這就變成政府擬一個政策去欺騙人，農民辛辛苦苦去耕作，到現在有的人有放領，有的人沒有放領，人心如果浮動的話，社會就不會有韌性，非常感謝部長，也非常感謝院長這樣明確的宣示，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在我們在議場二樓旁聽的是來自世界華商總會，有澳洲、巴拉圭、日本、英國、西班牙，還有印尼、加拿大，我們熱情的掌聲歡迎各位。","再下來我們上午最後一位質詢的委員葉元之委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},{"id":"163800","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163800","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b89039ccd6f598472e14704543300bdabf021764375d49d526b90fb57351b41a9d0d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林憶君","委員發言時間":"11:43:05 - 11:59:49","影片長度":"00:16:44","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T11:43:05+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T11:59:49+08:00","duration":1004,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.75346875,"end":21.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.32284375,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.74034375,"end":24.769718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.090343750000002,"end":26.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":35.55284375,"end":36.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.93659375,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.89846875,"end":44.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.243468750000005,"end":106.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.67346875,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.35596875,"end":107.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":107.76096875,"end":111.89534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.31721875000001,"end":117.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.39221875000001,"end":121.83471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.57721875000001,"end":124.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.99034375000001,"end":125.54721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.85096875,"end":126.18846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.59346875000001,"end":128.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":128.53409375,"end":135.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":135.95909375000002,"end":138.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.35096875000002,"end":148.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.34534375,"end":150.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.24784375000002,"end":156.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.01909375,"end":158.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.73596875,"end":161.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.96346875,"end":164.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":165.20346875,"end":166.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.48159375,"end":170.19846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":170.83971875,"end":177.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":177.77534375000002,"end":179.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":179.86784375000002,"end":181.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":181.74096875,"end":184.52534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.45346875,"end":193.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.60409375,"end":199.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":200.25284375,"end":202.29471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.63221875000002,"end":205.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.14221875,"end":206.63159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.20534375000003,"end":225.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.30784375000002,"end":226.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":226.83096875,"end":227.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.84346875000003,"end":232.09596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":232.53471875000002,"end":236.33159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":236.66909375,"end":238.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":238.28909375,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":241.17471875,"end":243.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":243.90846875000003,"end":245.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.20346875,"end":246.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":246.65909375,"end":246.96284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":247.41846875000002,"end":248.97096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":249.35909375000003,"end":251.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":251.48534375000003,"end":252.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.29534375000003,"end":254.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.57346875000002,"end":256.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.76721875000004,"end":257.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.01596875,"end":260.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":261.28971875,"end":262.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":262.55534375,"end":264.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":264.96846875,"end":265.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":266.25096875,"end":267.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":268.12409375000004,"end":272.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":272.39346875,"end":273.43971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":273.84471875,"end":275.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":275.63346875,"end":279.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":280.18971875,"end":281.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.04596875000004,"end":283.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":284.18909375000004,"end":286.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.61909375,"end":288.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":288.96471875000003,"end":289.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.06159375000004,"end":292.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":293.03159375,"end":295.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":296.30534375,"end":299.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":299.44409375000004,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":301.40159375,"end":306.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":306.68346875000003,"end":310.59846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.08346875,"end":356.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.57096875,"end":324.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.32534375,"end":389.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.59034375000005,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.43659375000004,"end":426.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":426.59721875,"end":431.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":431.27159375,"end":433.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":433.58346875,"end":434.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":434.37659375000004,"end":436.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":436.31721875000005,"end":437.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":437.34659375,"end":441.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":442.15596875000006,"end":443.40471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":443.97846875000005,"end":444.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":444.73784375,"end":447.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":447.47159375,"end":451.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.99409375000005,"end":452.31471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.36534375,"end":457.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.37284375,"end":467.58659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":467.80596875000003,"end":492.10596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":492.57846875,"end":503.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":504.20534375000005,"end":506.28096875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":507.98534375,"end":517.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.4015937500001,"end":525.68721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.90659375,"end":531.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.40346875,"end":551.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.8815937500001,"end":555.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.1297187499999,"end":556.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.18034375,"end":558.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.9397187500001,"end":575.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.0422187500001,"end":577.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":577.42596875,"end":580.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.22284375,"end":585.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":585.72846875,"end":592.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":593.2040937500001,"end":594.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":594.58784375,"end":595.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":595.6003437500001,"end":600.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":600.17346875,"end":604.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.2865937500001,"end":613.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":613.53846875,"end":616.94721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":617.35221875,"end":624.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.6003437500001,"end":623.3428437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":624.5915937500001,"end":648.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.1809687500001,"end":633.4509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":648.30096875,"end":651.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":652.04721875,"end":673.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.71471875,"end":762.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.3928437500001,"end":773.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":773.6147187500001,"end":794.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":794.42159375,"end":807.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":807.2803437500002,"end":850.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":850.37909375,"end":851.8134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":852.0834687500001,"end":911.55096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":911.7703437500002,"end":926.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":926.60346875,"end":939.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":967.9640937500001,"end":968.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":968.4197187500001,"end":968.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":968.9765937500001,"end":969.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.9722187500001,"end":973.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":996.6515937500001,"end":997.1240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":997.84971875,"end":1002.8447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1004.78534375,"end":1005.20721875}],"whisperx":[{"start":21.068,"end":35.923,"text":"謝謝主席有請行政院長麻煩請卓院長備刑林委員好"},{"start":36.977,"end":64.259,"text":"主委院長好其實在今天進入整個問題之前本席還是先幫我們花蓮人請命這一次馬太安艷澀湖的潰堤的整個悲劇給政府也是一個很大的警惕希望未來不要有這種遺憾的事情再發生所以希望針對這一次艷澀湖造成的災情我們大家還是同島迎命讓我們全民都可以看到政府守護人民的決心"},{"start":64.839,"end":86.196,"text":"也希望中央和地方都能共同救災不分你我一起幫助災民渡過難關讓花蓮人民可以回歸正常的生活讓花蓮的觀光還有經濟都可以復甦因為畢竟災後這整個重建的工作是一個大的工作而且不能只是單靠志工還有這些地方政府的力量"},{"start":86.696,"end":106.355,"text":"所以我們當然也知道中央有很多現在很多事情要處理的還有要面對的但是此時此刻對我們花蓮來說最希望的就是院長能給我們災民最快速的協助還有最實質的協助和補助趕緊讓花蓮的家園重建讓人民恢復正常的生活"},{"start":107.843,"end":123.615,"text":"我昨天說過我們對花蓮這災區我們非常的感覺到痛心尤其對於罹難的人我們給最高的哀悼我們有七個順序要做第一個就是搶救生命一個就是恢復家園"},{"start":125.034,"end":147.896,"text":"第三個就是把這些垃圾要清掉第四個就是恢復它的環境跟交通這四個我們現在希望在中秋節以前能夠達到基本生活的正常那接下來的第五項就是對於農損 房屋毀損還有公共設施毀損 包括交通毀損我們全面性的展開重建的工作這個是重建的工作"},{"start":148.877,"end":166.275,"text":"再來一個第六個就是當這些補償都完成之後這種全面性的重建的復原工作要中央跟地方合力來完成這個完這個之後我們還有第七個就是那為什麼會發生這樣的災害我們一定要把原因找出來"},{"start":167.52,"end":184.133,"text":"在大自然底下我們認為做的有沒有疏失以利於未來我們還有其他煙色湖啊比方說我們在新竹尖石鄉還有一個太剛溪的煙色湖雖然不大但是我們還有很多煙色湖一定要用這次的經驗讓未來不會發生同樣的悲劇"},{"start":185.506,"end":205.353,"text":"好 謝謝院長也希望現在災民最希望的就是希望政府可以給他們災民最大的實質上的補助我們會努力來做到像我們的前進協調所無論是剛開始的賴建信次長以及現在的紀連城政府都非常專心的投入我也希望能夠跟地方能夠取得充分的合作好 謝謝"},{"start":207.387,"end":225.24,"text":"接下來針對今天的預算我想說Bency想要請問院長我們現在的年度的總預算難道已經無法因應國際的情勢的變動了嗎否則為什麼會需要特別提出這個預算案還有台美對等的關稅談判究竟結果是如何有什麼進展嗎"},{"start":227.972,"end":257.155,"text":"我記得去年520之前總統在跟我談未來工作的時候我們都同樣有想法總統也指示我們盡量不舉債盡量不編特別預算所以你看我們去年到現在除了以前年度編的特別預算我們沒有真的編特別預算這次是特別那我們也希望能夠不舉債但是因為我們支出實在是太多了稅數不夠所以我們一定要舉債那因為這次我們幾項的特別預算包括"},{"start":258.032,"end":266.823,"text":"今天討論的這個強化韌性這是因應國際情勢不得不這麼做另外我們的這個丹納斯颱風也不得不做特別的預算"},{"start":268.471,"end":287.628,"text":"這個都雖然違背我們過去一年多前的想法但是我們認為國際情勢在改變國內的情勢在改變而且災害的頻頻的發生我們必須要給人民更大的安心所以我們編了這個特別預算特別預算當中有的是沿用過去的年度的稅基剩餘有的必須再舉債"},{"start":289.368,"end":310.399,"text":"這個也已經不是我們原來的初衷的想法但是我們認為既然國家需要既然社會人民需要我們就這樣跟大院來取得支持之後我們還是秉持那種當用財用當用折用的這個原則我們會把每一筆預算每一分錢用到最需要而且我們會珍惜這樣的一個國家資源"},{"start":312.388,"end":329.977,"text":"因為院長這次其實從行政院提出的特別預算來看高達五千五百億當然涵蓋了很多的部會包括內政國防經濟還有農業醫療還有教育這些本來只是因為本來這個特別預算是要因應美國川普的總統"},{"start":331.158,"end":349.599,"text":"對台灣的加徵的關稅的經濟衝擊還有給全民普發一萬元以外但問題是現在也僅僅只有經濟預算還包括了國土安全韌性然後本席看了一下整個的預算書的內容發現因應關稅衝擊的支持產業的經濟韌性竟然只有780億元"},{"start":351.201,"end":367.436,"text":"而國土安全韌性卻高達到1500億元整個預算的主次顛倒表示行政院根本可能就沒有把因應對等關稅的衝擊放在第一位這如何提供產業充分的支持呢還有如何提升國際的競爭力呢"},{"start":369.218,"end":395.68,"text":"因為賴清德總統從就職開始就不斷地一直在強調國安的韌性但無論國家安全或者國土安全都是政府平常就應該要做的事情應該在每年的總預算中就要體現出來沒有理由需要編特別的預算那到現在有什麼就是重大威脅國土安全的事件嗎還是特別需要編列這個特別預算呢因為我們看了根據了整個預算法第83條的規定"},{"start":397.381,"end":426.373,"text":"特別預算只有在國防緊急設施或戰爭還有國家經濟重大變故還有重大的災變還有不定期或數年一次的重大的震勢這四個情況才能得以編列但是川普關稅的衝擊整個的是整個經濟毫無疑問的國家經濟重大的變故所以編列那請問這上面哪一項是國土安全韌性編列的1500億的特別預算的理由呢"},{"start":426.833,"end":449.174,"text":"在副部長答覆之前我先跟委員報告我們雖然支持產業有780億當中有180億是農業的支持另外我們有安定就業的150億我們還有照顧民生包括普發現金總共有3070億再加起來才是整個特別預算當中的大宗至於1500億的國土安全韌性這個部分請副部長來答覆"},{"start":452.457,"end":466.702,"text":"跟委員簡要報告我想我們六個案子裡面大概分兩大類一個就是自動電作業環境及設備的提升這是一大類另外一大類就是改善及強化各重要防衛設施並整建各式的庫儲設施"},{"start":468.042,"end":490.768,"text":"現在跟委員報告主要就是在於說我們的自動電作業環境跟設備的提升如果我們要按照一般的公務預算來編列的話都只能夠在維持各部隊的這些有關通識電設備還有核心管道的電路的更換跟指揮所內部電路的修繕等等這些例行性的工項所以我們如果要一次性的達成這個"},{"start":492.648,"end":505.296,"text":"多路的備援 機動的部署跟快速恢復這樣子的一個能力的話我們需要有這樣子的一個一筆的預算然後我們快速的能夠形成戰力那有關那個"},{"start":508.235,"end":530.863,"text":"強化國土防衛能量的部分也是如此因為如果我們按照這個年度的這樣的預算來排列的話呢相關的這些預算的這個金額都只能夠做基本的維持沒有辦法一次性的快速的整建所以我們現在一定要快速來進行後備戰力改革還有回復一年級151的實戰化的訓練所以"},{"start":532.463,"end":555.169,"text":"各式的訓場要快速的整建那我們後續會有很多很多的新式的武器要進來所以庫儲的設施如果按照我們原來作業為職會來編的話那我們編的金額也是相當的低那沒有辦法一次性的把所有我們需要的彈藥的庫儲的設施做一次性的整建那剛才部長的意思是說這樣的話這一次的預算會編在武器上面嗎"},{"start":556.289,"end":583.491,"text":"這些預算會編在這上面嗎沒有 編在武器上面它兩大類一個是資通電的部分然後這一個部分就是主要在建構備援機動跟韌性另外一大類就是整個的所謂的國土防衛能量這個包括訓場 庫儲設施還有我們的戰備的存量打算要加倍然後要比如說所以這次的特別預算會不會編在武器上面這一次的特別預算沒有在武器裝備這個部分"},{"start":585.782,"end":600.986,"text":"也跟委員報告因為我們現在這是談判的過程內容我們不是關稅的談判我們著重的是對等關稅還有非關稅的貿易障礙還有貿易便捷化另外一個就是經濟安全"},{"start":601.286,"end":616.565,"text":"所以我們對於席產地違規轉運我們還是要做有效的防範不論是國防或海巡將來在這個部分都必須對我們的海域海疆做更多的資通信安全的保障也必須充實我們更多的能量也包括這個硬體的能量跟軟體的設備都一定要"},{"start":617.426,"end":635.709,"text":"提升起來 我們才有辦法在經濟安全這個向下提升我們自己的力量防止稀產地 防止這個違規轉移好 那我再請問部長 部長在這邊這有關強化國安韌性在內政部 國防部還有農業部 還有海洋委員會其實都有編了強化國土防衛能量的這些預算"},{"start":636.75,"end":656.842,"text":"當然賴清德總統在9月20號出席全社會防衛任性的國際論壇中他也有提出來說政府將具體的行動持續強化實力提升國防力量同時編列強化國土安全任性的預算但是我們回頭想一下我們歷年來的我們的萬安演習其實為什麼現在還停留在"},{"start":657.242,"end":672.745,"text":"街上停車進行形式化的交通人員的管制呢因為現在萬安演習其實是全台整個居民的合作應該要提高國安任性的重要的是一個實戰的演練初衷當然就是教育全民在面對"},{"start":673.866,"end":697.299,"text":"管事突發戰爭還是突然災害的時候我們大家要如何避難的自保但是長期以來都太流於形式了讓人民不把演習當認真甚至連政府有時候部門也會覺得說不要引起恐慌為理由然後把整個演習可能簡化了也可能把它壓縮了然後就變成一個例行的公司甚至變成一個"},{"start":697.719,"end":723.695,"text":"可能是變成一個年度的一個作秀的大戰所以我相對的我看了一個對應在我們跟我們比較好的鄰近的國家日本他的經驗他們的防災教育就是從小都養成了而且他們就是在全民的平常的基本的素養裡面日本把防災教育融入了學校也融入了社區也融入了工作場所和家庭都是有例行的防災的訓練還有備品的整個檢查"},{"start":726.116,"end":747.478,"text":"連在台灣最知名的櫻桃小丸子這樣的卡通其實我們都可以看到整個的演習的細節都會在卡通裡面都有呈現但是訪觀台灣我們不要說防災的知識可能教育不足甚至連資訊都更不足所以為什麼日本可以做到防災變成全民的DNA"},{"start":748.038,"end":772.799,"text":"但台灣卻永遠都在亡羊補牢是政府對災害避難的宣導不夠嗎還是根本沒有落實還是因為政府把這個平常應該花在刀口上面有效宣傳的防災避難的預算宣導這整個的費用會不會拿去了大內宣還是洋網軍呢因為我們從這一次花蓮這樣的整個災害的事件來看然後中央長期防災的"},{"start":773.919,"end":788.107,"text":"體系可能已經不足了尤其是演習教育落後的一個警訊所以國防部最近也發布了一個叫新版的全民國防手冊說當危機來的時候台灣全民安全的整個指引"},{"start":788.887,"end":809.54,"text":"當然未來規劃這個會每一個家家戶戶可能都會拿到這個指引但是然後呢政府到底為了人民做了些什麼什麼是可以有效的提升我們國安的韌性呢所以我們再看一下先進的這些國家其實在面對這整個一連串的複合性的災害不管是減災還有包括整個整備"},{"start":810.28,"end":824.647,"text":"都是一條邊的整個治理但是台灣在災防的資訊上面可能是無法整合所以發生的時候經常會讓民眾有時候陷入了生命財產風險的整個的疑慮像這一次的馬太安的艷澀湖的這個悲劇"},{"start":826.028,"end":849.753,"text":"可能就是一個非常具體的展現了所以災害防治還有後續的救災還有國土的防衛任性的這個整個責任絕對是中央政府的責任當然身為負責的執政者就應該為老百姓備妥這一整個的準備而不是讓人民在災難來的時候才學會怎麼樣去應對而且"},{"start":850.453,"end":866.025,"text":"不可以讓老百姓真的連避難所在哪裡都不知道也不知道到時候遇到這種情況的時候到底要跑到哪裡去躲其實災害是沒有畫面的所以我們也知道當它沒有畫面的時候其實每一個人思考"},{"start":866.405,"end":881.281,"text":"都是不一樣的那院長你知不知道現在全世界這幾年其實在災害的避難的宣導上面也都開始強調所謂的共同圖像因為有一個共同圖像背後才有共同語彙及共同的整個架構"},{"start":882.142,"end":896.713,"text":"因為這次我有看協助的花蓮災區的民眾加速整個家園的重建當然本席非常感謝這次國防部有投入全力執行救災其中有看到陸軍司令部首次也一個"},{"start":897.453,"end":925.792,"text":"對外公開一個叫做救災神器運用了TAK的部隊的覺知應用套印製的這個整個套件運用了TAK的手機於圖上標會災區的情形提供各級的部隊長及時回饋當前的需求整合救災整個資訊建立救災共同圖像所以我想說院長你知道現在執政團隊的各部會有整合救災或國安的共同圖像嗎因為這個是非常重要的"},{"start":927.331,"end":939.224,"text":"跟委員報告我想在我們這一次的韌性特別預算裡面其實就有一個居民共同圖像系統監偵能力案的一個建制所以我們會就海域的部分"},{"start":996.715,"end":1005.063,"text":"好 谢谢谢谢林一军委员咨询谢谢卓院长相关部会首长备询谢谢谢谢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":911,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時43分）謝謝主席，有請行政院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員憶君：卓院長好。在進入今天整個問題之前，本席還是要先幫我們花蓮人請命，這一次馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰堤的整個悲劇，給政府一個很大的警惕，希望未來不要再有這種遺憾的事情發生，所以針對這一次堰塞湖所造成的災情，我們大家還是同島一命，讓全民都可以看到政府守護人民的決心，也希望中央和地方都能共同救災，不分你我，一起幫助災民度過難關，讓花蓮人民可以回歸正常生活，讓花蓮的觀光還有經濟都可以復甦。但畢竟災後整個重建工作是一個大工程，不能只是單靠志工還有地方政府的力量，我們當然也知道中央現在有很多要處理還有面對的事情，但此時此刻對我們花蓮來說，最希望的就是院長能給予我們災民最快速及最實質的協助和補助，趕緊讓花蓮的家園重建，讓人民恢復正常的生活。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。我昨天說過，對於花蓮這次的災區我們感覺到非常痛心，尤其對於罹難的人我們給予最高的哀悼。我們有7個順序要做，第1個是搶救生命，第2個是恢復家園，第3個是把這些垃圾清掉，第4個是恢復它的環境跟交通，這4個我們希望在中秋節以前能夠達到基本生活的正常。接下來的第5項就是對於農損、房屋毀損，還有公共設施毀損，包括交通毀損的，我們全面性的展開重建的工作。再來是第6個，當這些補償都完成之後，全面性重建的復原工作要中央跟地方合力來完成。這個之後我們還有第7個，就是為什麼會發生這樣的災害，我們一定要把原因找出來，在大自然底下，我們人為做的有沒有疏失，以利於未來……我們還有其他堰塞湖啊！比方說我們在新竹尖石鄉還有一個泰崗溪的堰塞湖，雖然不大，但是我們還有很多堰塞湖，一定要用這次的經驗，讓未來不會發生同樣的悲劇。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝院長，現在災民最希望的，就是希望政府可以給他們災民最大的、實質上的補助。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會努力來做到，像我們的前進協調所，無論是剛開始的賴建信次長，以及現在的季連成政委，都非常專心的投入，我也希望能夠跟地方取得充分的合作。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。接下來針對今天的預算，本席想要請問院長，我們現在的年度總預算，難道已經無法因應國際情勢的變動了嗎？否則為什麼會需要特別提出這一個預算案？還有臺美對等的關稅談判，究竟結果是如何？有什麼進展嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我記得去年520之前，總統在跟我談未來工作的時候，我們都有同樣的想法，總統也指示我們儘量不舉債，儘量不編特別預算，所以你看我們去年到現在，除了以前年度編的特別預算，我們沒有真的編特別預算，這次是特別。那我們也希望能夠不舉債，但是因為我們支出實在是太多了，歲出不夠，所以我們一定要舉債，但因為這次我們幾項的特別預算，包括今天討論的強化韌性，這是因應國際情勢，不得不這麼做。另外，我們的丹娜絲颱風，也不得不做特別的預算。這個雖然違背我們過去一年多前的想法，但是我們認為國際情勢在改變，國內的情勢在改變，而且災害頻頻的發生，我們必須要給人民更大的安心，所以我們編了這個特別預算。特別預算當中，有的是沿用過去年度的歲計賸餘，有的必須再舉債，這個也已經不是我們原來初衷的想法，但是我們認為，既然國家需要、既然社會人民需要，我們就這樣跟大院來取得支持之後，我們還是秉持那種當用才用、當用則用的這個原則，我們會把每一筆預算、每一分錢用到最需要……而且我們會很珍惜這樣的一個國家資源。"],["林委員憶君：好，因為院長，這次其實從行政院提出的特別預算來看，高達5,500億，當然涵蓋了很多的部會，包括內政、國防、經濟，還有農業、醫療，還有教育這些，只是本來這個特別預算是要因應美國川普總統對臺灣加徵關稅的經濟衝擊，還有給全民普發1萬元，但問題是現在不僅僅只有經濟預算，還包括了國土安全韌性，然後本席看了一下整個預算書的內容，發現因應關稅衝擊的支持產業的經濟韌性竟然只有780億元，而國土安全韌性卻高達到1,500億元，整個預算的主次顛倒，表示行政院根本可能就沒有把因應對等關稅的衝擊放在第一位，這如何提供產業充分的支持呢？還有如何提升國際的競爭力呢？因為賴清德總統從就職開始就不斷地一直在強調國安的韌性，但無論國家安全或者國土安全，都是政府平常就應該要做的事情，應該在每年的總預算中就要體現出來，沒有理由需要編特別的預算，到現在有什麼重大威脅國土安全的事件需要編列這個特別預算呢？因為我們看了，根據整個預算法第八十三條的規定，特別預算只有在國防緊急設施或戰爭，還有國家經濟重大變故，還有重大的災變，還有不定期或數年一次重大的政事，這四個情況才得以編列。但是川普關稅衝擊的是整個經濟，毫無疑問地，這是國家經濟重大的變故所以要編列。請問這上面哪一項是針對國土安全韌性而要編列1,500億特別預算的理由呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：在顧部長答復之前，我先跟委員報告，我們雖然有編支持產業的780億，當中有180億是對農業的支持。另外，我們有安定就業的150億，還有照顧民生，包括普發現金，總共是3,070億，這些加起來才是整個特別預算當中的大宗。至於1,500億的國土安全韌性這部分，就請顧部長來答復。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員簡要報告，在我們的六個案子裡面大概可分兩大類，一個就是資通電作業環境及設備的提升，這是一大類；另外一大類就是改善及強化各重要防衛設施並整建各處的庫儲設施。現在跟委員報告的主要就是在於，我們的資通電作業環境跟設備的提升，如果要按照一般公務預算來編列的話，都只能夠維持各部隊的這些資通電有關設備，還有核心管道電路的更換，跟指揮所內部電路的修繕等等這些例行性的工項。所以我們如果要一次性地達成這種多路的備援、機動的部署，跟快速地恢復這樣一個能力的話，我們就需要有這樣一筆的預算，讓我們能快速地形成戰力。","有關強化國土防衛能量的部分也是如此，因為如果我們按照年度預算來排列的話，這些相關預算的金額都只能夠做基本的維持，沒有辦法一次性地、快速地整建。我們現在一定要快速地進行後備戰力的改革，還有回復一年期義務役實戰化的訓練，所以各式的訓場要快速的整建，而我們後續也有很多、很多新式的武器要進來，所以庫儲的設施如果要按照原來作業維持費來編的話，那我們編的金額也是相當地低，沒有辦法一次性地把所有我們需要彈藥的庫儲設施做一次性的整建。"],["林委員憶君：剛才部長的意思是說，這樣的話，這次的預算會編在武器上面嗎？這些預算會編在武器上面嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：沒有編在武器上面，它有兩大類，一個是資通電的部分，然後這一個部分主要就是在建構備援、機動跟韌性；而另外一大類就是所謂的國土防衛能量，這個包括訓場、庫儲設施，還有我們戰備的存量打算要加倍，然後要比如說……"],["林委員憶君：所以這次的特別預算會不會編在武器上面？"],["顧部長立雄：這一次的特別預算沒有編武器裝備的這個部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：也跟委員報告，因為我們這次關稅談判的內容是著重在對等關稅，還有非關稅的貿易障礙，還有貿易便捷化，另外一個就是經濟安全，所以我們對於洗產地、違規轉運還是要做有效地防範，不論是國防或海巡，將來這個部分都必須對我們的海域、海疆做更多資通訊安全的保障，也必須充實我們更多的能量，包括硬體的能量跟軟體的設備都一定要提升起來，我們才有辦法在經濟安全的這個項下提升我們自己的力量。"],["林委員憶君：好，那我……"],["卓院長榮泰：防止洗產地、防止違規轉運……"],["林委員憶君：好，我再請問部長，因為部長還在這邊。有關強化國安韌性，在內政部、國防部、農業部，還有海洋委員會其實都編了強化國土防衛能量的這些預算。當然賴清德總統在9月20號出席全社會防衛韌性的國際論壇中也有提出，政府將具體地行動，持續強化實力，提升國防力量，同時編列強化國土安全韌性的預算。但是回頭想一下，歷年來我們的萬安演習，現在為什麼還停留在街上停車，進行形式化交通人員的管制呢？","現在的萬安演習其實是全臺整個軍民的合作，為提高國安韌性，重要的應該是實戰的演練，初衷當然就是教育全民在面對不管是突發戰爭，還是突然發生災害的時候，我們大家要如何避難以自保。但是長期以來都太流於形式了，讓人民不把演習認真看待，甚至有時候連政府部門也會以不要引起恐慌為理由，可能就把整個演習簡化了，也可能把它壓縮了，然後就變成一個例行的公事，甚至可能變成一個年度作秀的大戰。所以相對地，我看了一個跟我們比較好的鄰近國家──日本的經驗，他們的防災教育就是從小養成的，而且他們就是在全民平常的基本素養裡面，日本把防災教育融入了學校，也融入了社區，也融入了工作場所和家庭，都有例行的防災訓練，還有備品的整個檢查，連在臺灣最知名的櫻桃小丸子這樣的卡通，其實我們都可以看到，整個演習的細節在卡通裡面都有呈現；但是反觀臺灣，我們不要說防災知識可能教育不足，甚至連資訊都更不足。為什麼日本可以做到防災變成全民的DNA，臺灣卻永遠都在亡羊補牢，是政府對災害避難的宣導不夠嗎？還是根本沒有落實？還是因為政府把這個平常應該花在刀口上面有效宣傳防災避難的宣導預算拿去大內宣，還是養網軍呢？因為我們從這次花蓮這樣的災害事件來看，中央長期防災的體系可能已經不足，尤其這是演習教育落後的一個警訊，所以國防部最近也發布了新版的全民國防手冊，說到當危機來的時候，臺灣全民的安全指引，當然未來規劃家家戶戶每一個可能都會拿到這個指引，但是政府到底為人民做了些什麼？什麼是可以有效的提升我們國安的韌性呢？","我們再看一下，其實這些先進的國家在面對整個一連串的複合性災害，不管是減災，還有包括整個整備，都是一條鞭的治理，但是臺灣在災防的資訊上面可能是無法整合，所以發生的時候，經常會讓民眾有陷入生命財產風險的疑慮，像這一次馬太鞍溪堰塞湖的悲劇就是一個非常具體的展現。所以災害防治，還有後續的救災，還有國土的防衛韌性，這整個責任絕對是中央政府的責任，當然身為負責的執政者，就應該為老百姓備妥這一整個的準備，而不是讓人民在災難來的時候，才學會怎麼樣去應對，而且不可以讓老百姓連避難所在哪裡都不知道，也不知道遇到這種情況的時候，到底要跑到哪裡去躲。其實災害是沒有畫面的，我們也知道，當它沒有畫面的時候，其實每一個人的思考都是不一樣的。","院長，你知不知道，其實全世界這幾年在災害避難的宣導上面也都開始強調所謂的共同圖像，因為有一個共同圖像，背後才有共同與會及共同的整個架構。這次我有看到協助花蓮災區的民眾加速整個家園的重建，當然本席非常感謝這次國防部有投入，全力執行救災，其中看到陸軍司令部也首次對外公開一個救災神器，運用了TAK（部隊覺知應用套件）於手機地圖上標繪災區的情形，提供各級部隊長即時回饋當前的需求，整合救災資訊，建立救災共同圖像。所以我想問，院長，你知道現在執政團隊的各部會有整合救災或國安的共同圖像嗎？因為這個是非常重要的。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，在我們這一次的韌性特別預算裡面，其實就有一個軍民共同圖像系統監偵能力案的建置，所以我們會就海域的部分，包括海巡的雷達等等，全部整合在這個您剛剛提到的臺灣戰術網路TAK的部分，我們也會將相關的警消等等的這些，運用相關的網路系統，編入到這個共同圖像，我想……"],["林委員憶君：OK，我是希望能夠由行政院負責整合各部會，建立這個圖像，建立這整個平臺，一起來救災，我想這個是很重要的。"],["顧部長立雄：對，我們會跟內政部的警消一起來結合，我們這一邊的部分也會跟海巡等等的一起，所以不管從海域一直到陸地，我們都要建立一個共同圖像，不管發生任何的重大災害也好，或者發生任何的緊急狀況，我們都有這樣一個共同圖像的建立。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員支持這個預算。"],["主席：謝謝林憶君委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請莊瑞雄委員質詢，葉元之委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},{"id":"163799","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163799","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890577a2f143685f5f3704543300bdabf029c82953a25bf8a3411b1cec9fb31ec975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:16:03 - 11:31:33","影片長度":"00:15:30","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T11:16:03+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T11:31:33+08:00","duration":930,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":3.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.72659375,"end":5.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.549093750000001,"end":7.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.130968750000001,"end":9.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.54284375,"end":19.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.25159375,"end":19.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.38221875,"end":22.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.96409375,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.01034375,"end":26.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.28409375,"end":30.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.92909375,"end":31.249718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.53659375,"end":34.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.11409375,"end":39.299093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.05846875,"end":43.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.838468750000004,"end":51.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.54596875,"end":53.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.73971875,"end":58.047218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.63784375,"end":60.56159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.59096875,"end":64.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.06721875000001,"end":66.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.36659375,"end":68.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.74596875,"end":69.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.07909375,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.73909375000001,"end":89.33346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.90721875,"end":94.07534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":94.39596875000001,"end":96.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.46721875,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.17534375000001,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.34784375000001,"end":110.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.88284375,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.10534375,"end":119.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":122.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.35346875,"end":124.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.76659375000001,"end":126.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.81284375000001,"end":129.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.78284375,"end":130.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.26784375,"end":134.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.53721875000002,"end":137.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.54534375,"end":138.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":139.40159375000002,"end":145.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.74659375000002,"end":149.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.01596875,"end":151.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.53471875,"end":154.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.82534375,"end":156.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.04471875000002,"end":156.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.17534375,"end":158.84159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.84159375000002,"end":159.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.21284375000002,"end":166.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.73159375,"end":161.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.83221875,"end":165.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.62096875,"end":166.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.68846875,"end":166.77284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.77284375000002,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.78971875000002,"end":166.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.80659375000002,"end":168.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.16909375,"end":169.30409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.30409375000002,"end":169.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.50659375,"end":169.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.52346875,"end":170.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.75534375,"end":177.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.70784375000002,"end":179.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.21409375000002,"end":190.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.08721875,"end":181.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":182.75346875000002,"end":183.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.32284375,"end":186.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.02221875,"end":200.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.45534375000003,"end":202.41284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":200.59034375000002,"end":201.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.73346875000001,"end":213.83721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.86846875,"end":203.52659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.79971875,"end":221.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":216.53721875000002,"end":219.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.17784375000002,"end":224.16471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.96221875,"end":226.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.72971875000002,"end":230.05409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.25659375,"end":230.79659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":230.62784375,"end":231.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.30284375000002,"end":240.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.28034375000001,"end":241.09034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.87096875,"end":242.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.47846875000002,"end":243.75659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.27971875000003,"end":245.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.58346875,"end":244.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.03909375,"end":257.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.90784375,"end":248.21159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":253.96596875000003,"end":255.80534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.97409375,"end":257.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.50971875,"end":270.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.62659375000004,"end":266.01471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.31784375,"end":284.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":279.59909375,"end":280.52721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.94909375000003,"end":282.13034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.73784375,"end":283.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.69534375,"end":285.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.31971875,"end":289.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.97721875,"end":289.99409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.99409375,"end":293.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.62659375000004,"end":293.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.49971875,"end":298.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.81971875,"end":300.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.59159375,"end":309.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.31596875,"end":327.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.53034375000004,"end":316.31909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.36534375,"end":320.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":320.03159375,"end":322.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":322.12409375000004,"end":325.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.37221875,"end":359.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.40784375000004,"end":342.96471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.67096875000004,"end":365.86409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.57284375,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.92221875,"end":376.57971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.78221875,"end":381.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":381.13596875,"end":382.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":382.68846875,"end":405.65534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":383.09346875,"end":384.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":389.16846875000005,"end":390.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.11096875000004,"end":421.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.86846875000003,"end":420.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":421.06221875,"end":423.20534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.09596875000005,"end":421.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.07471875000005,"end":432.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.21346875,"end":427.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.52534375000005,"end":427.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.15346875,"end":432.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.35159375,"end":432.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.85784375000003,"end":435.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.15721875,"end":434.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.44409375000004,"end":435.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.82784375000006,"end":439.65846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.28284375000004,"end":442.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":440.31659375000004,"end":440.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.26159375000003,"end":472.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":446.23971875,"end":446.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.23534375,"end":447.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.02284375000005,"end":457.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.25659375000004,"end":500.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.57721875000004,"end":504.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.99846875000003,"end":505.55534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":506.12909375000004,"end":508.18784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.72784375000003,"end":511.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":511.57971875000004,"end":520.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":522.00846875,"end":532.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":526.8515937500001,"end":527.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":532.3528437500001,"end":534.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.8840937500001,"end":535.5422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.5422187500001,"end":535.8797187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.8797187499999,"end":535.9640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.9640937500001,"end":536.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.03159375,"end":536.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.06534375,"end":538.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.14096875,"end":538.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.30971875,"end":576.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.47846875,"end":538.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.1484687500001,"end":544.1653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.54846875,"end":550.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.9640937500001,"end":563.8078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.45159375,"end":577.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.3459687500001,"end":580.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":577.98284375,"end":578.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.07534375,"end":581.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.17221875,"end":581.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":581.9484687500001,"end":581.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":581.9653437500001,"end":582.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.5559687500001,"end":582.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.60659375,"end":582.7078437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.7078437499999,"end":589.50846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.76159375,"end":590.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.5378437500001,"end":593.6597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.3897187499999,"end":594.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":593.9297187500001,"end":594.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.0603437500001,"end":622.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.39346875,"end":629.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":629.89034375,"end":708.2578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.33409375,"end":679.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":708.35909375,"end":734.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.2622187500001,"end":775.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.1303437500001,"end":741.4340937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.67034375,"end":746.0578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.5247187500001,"end":757.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.51409375,"end":770.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":775.70721875,"end":792.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.4865937500001,"end":784.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":792.29534375,"end":797.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.3915937500001,"end":808.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":809.72721875,"end":811.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":812.0222187500001,"end":813.4565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":814.08096875,"end":816.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":816.46034375,"end":818.5190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.3459687500001,"end":821.7084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":822.9909687500001,"end":823.8178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":824.0203437500002,"end":828.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":826.2140937500001,"end":826.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":828.7453437500001,"end":830.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":829.25159375,"end":835.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":834.06096875,"end":837.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":835.8159687500001,"end":836.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":836.86221875,"end":838.7690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":838.6003437500001,"end":840.7265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":839.8828437500001,"end":846.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":843.59534375,"end":846.3290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.13909375,"end":847.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.15596875,"end":847.1728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":847.1728437500001,"end":866.5959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.3247187500001,"end":847.6453437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.99971875,"end":848.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.5690937500001,"end":849.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":849.7209687500001,"end":849.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":860.8247187500001,"end":864.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":865.85346875,"end":866.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":867.0347187500001,"end":868.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.5872187500001,"end":872.9578437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.2409687500001,"end":870.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":870.9497187500001,"end":870.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":873.5990937500001,"end":883.0659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":878.35784375,"end":880.1297187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":881.71596875,"end":885.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":883.94346875,"end":885.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":885.9853437500001,"end":889.8328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":886.1540937500001,"end":888.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":888.3984687500001,"end":889.2422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":889.2422187500001,"end":889.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":889.8328437500002,"end":890.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.18721875,"end":900.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":890.57534375,"end":891.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":893.08971875,"end":894.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":896.7178437500002,"end":897.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":900.71721875,"end":901.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.73409375,"end":903.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":903.0290937500001,"end":907.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":905.5265937500001,"end":907.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":908.59784375,"end":912.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":909.25596875,"end":922.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":922.23284375,"end":922.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":923.48159375,"end":928.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":930.82221875,"end":931.46346875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.229,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":18.524,"end":39.076,"text":"院長好 坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠 還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來 政府絕對有這個責任 要讓民眾去清楚 讓產業去了解 這非常重要"},{"start":40.237,"end":60.208,"text":"當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼 加碼 加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息"},{"start":61.636,"end":89.044,"text":"到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教"},{"start":89.964,"end":112.438,"text":"我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活 產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教 首先要請教到底你這個產業園區 你的規模有多大"},{"start":113.158,"end":134.155,"text":"你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好 謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區"},{"start":135.555,"end":151.836,"text":"我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業"},{"start":156.375,"end":176.302,"text":"因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下"},{"start":177.682,"end":199.45,"text":"肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼"},{"start":202.811,"end":225.756,"text":"我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要"},{"start":226.776,"end":241.55,"text":"所說的沒有 是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分 好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區"},{"start":244.472,"end":262.343,"text":"廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程"},{"start":263.524,"end":288.883,"text":"政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去"},{"start":290.423,"end":310.501,"text":"廠商要做支援球的布局 我們都同意啊你這麼說 讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望 你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底 我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元"},{"start":312.503,"end":338.096,"text":"去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們 最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的"},{"start":338.816,"end":365.275,"text":"內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾"},{"start":366.636,"end":390.448,"text":"有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛 你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你"},{"start":391.568,"end":417.02,"text":"我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠"},{"start":417.66,"end":420.042,"text":"我們剛講過 談判的原則就是以國家的利益 產業的利益"},{"start":440.442,"end":460.255,"text":"國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益 以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點"},{"start":462.757,"end":478.402,"text":"也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教"},{"start":479.963,"end":504.674,"text":"因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明"},{"start":506.155,"end":519.687,"text":"依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說"},{"start":522.042,"end":550.432,"text":"月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是 準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統"},{"start":551.312,"end":579.789,"text":"還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦"},{"start":580.669,"end":593.183,"text":"速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放"},{"start":595.666,"end":622.666,"text":"這個非常好 終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的 儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去"},{"start":623.487,"end":624.188,"text":"延末成功"},{"start":653.707,"end":667.869,"text":"都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律"},{"start":669.511,"end":692.951,"text":"等這個規範 因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門"},{"start":694.132,"end":718.377,"text":"來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬"},{"start":721.238,"end":740.632,"text":"在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完"},{"start":741.552,"end":757.098,"text":"那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊"},{"start":757.898,"end":772.924,"text":"對 獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元"},{"start":775.845,"end":796.568,"text":"那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長"},{"start":797.549,"end":820.664,"text":"在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多"},{"start":823.052,"end":844.646,"text":"院長 您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對 你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長 你的政策"},{"start":847.828,"end":862.011,"text":"是希望聽到你的政策 院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法 都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長 謝謝你謝謝 實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼"},{"start":873.726,"end":902.242,"text":"如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對 差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題 好不好我再問院長 可以嗎"},{"start":902.702,"end":924.767,"text":"院長 多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝報案院會"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":757,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時15分）謝謝院會主席韓院長，以及行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊、各位同仁、新聞界的朋友、各位親愛的國人，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠，還要再送一個產業科技園區，這個聲音出來，政府絕對有責任讓民眾清楚、讓產業去了解，這非常重要。當然我們看到在剛開始還沒有談判的時候，台積電雙手奉上1,650億美元的投資，開始談判之後，美方一直要求必須加碼，這是我們聽到的訊息，到目前為止，我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分，既然沒有所謂的五五分，所以大家除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦。政府說我們有一個模式，要做一個產業科技園區，在這樣的情況之下，本席首先要請教，既然談判小組已經提出了這樣的論述，本席要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾怎麼生活、產業怎麼去鏈結。首先要請教到底這個產業園區的規模有多大？到底要投資多少金額？到底有哪些關鍵技術會過去？到底有多少廠家會過去？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，這是一個非常好的引申的問題，我們先看臺灣，幾十年前我們設立了科學園區，到今天各地有好多的園區都出現了，全球都在想臺灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式，他們都很想複製。當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候也不知道今天會這麼大，有這麼多廠商、這麼多投資、這麼多營業，所以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不會不知道，因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景，他們按部就班逐步達成，不可能一個政府在制訂任何政策時沒有它的KPI。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以對你這句話本席給予否定。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請繼續說。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以在全世界正在想臺灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下，我們很肯定的說，沒有辦法複製！沒有辦法複製！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教，沒有辦法複製，所以我們是非常nice的……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是成立一個園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是你今天要針對本席的提問，到底你要到美國去設立的產業園區規模有多大？你們預估會有多少廠家？它對臺灣的衝擊是什麼？投資金額是多少？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛被委員否定的就是，當初的科學園區也是小小的園區，到今天這麼大，我們現在到美國去，如果大家會成立一個園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您身為院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我的重點還沒講出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對主題，什麼小小的新竹科園區？我再次給你否定。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的園區是一個服務園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是一個服務的園區，以服務國內的廠商為主。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問現在是不是沒有五五分？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有五五分。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有五五分啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有五五分，好。那接下來本席要請問，我們所要創立的模式，那它的規模有多大？它的總投資額到底是有多少？它的廠家有多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：你是說廠商投資的，還是你剛剛說的園區？廠商投資嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在所謂的沒有五五分嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你說我們有一個模式跟……等於是一個計畫，你要設立了一個產業科園區嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：包括台積公司跟其他的廠商，他們要到美國去設廠，這是一個全球布局的過程，政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你的規模有多大？"],["卓院長榮泰：那是廠商自己決定！產業自己決定，不是政府……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然是要跟廠商商量，但是你政府既然提出，你一定有你的計畫內容啊！不可能你沒有計畫嘛！你也不可能沒有額度……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們不能……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去，但是廠商要做全球的布局，我們都同意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這麼說，讓民眾更加「霧煞煞」，本席希望你好好去討論，因為談判到現在，我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼？我們現在所看到的成果，就是奉送1,650億美元去投資台積電、在美國。"],["卓院長榮泰：那不是奉送。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，那不是奉送。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且美方一直要加碼……"],["卓院長榮泰：那怎麼會是奉送呢？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還好你們說沒有五五分。"],["龔部長明鑫：台積電在那邊他是有訂單，他會賺錢的。"],["卓院長榮泰：廠商去設一個廠，怎麼會是奉送呢？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你，你的談判到目前為止，最近期的，告訴我們，我們沒有五五分，我們有所謂的產業科學園區，希望要設立，那當然你一定有你的內容方向，產業別、關鍵技術是什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席希望你好好去討論，你現在沒有辦法回答本席，本席希望、民眾希望要能夠有所本地了解，他才不會恐慌，產業也希望有所本地了解才不會恐慌。所以本席希望你好好去討論，到底對我們臺灣的產業是衝擊、正面或者是負面，民眾有這個權利知道，政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾。院長，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個園區如果這樣子成立，是要服務我們的廠商，去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得，要有生活機能，而且要提高他的競爭力，是服務我們的廠商。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有嘛！你本來就有規劃，你連生活機能都講了，所以你必須要讓民眾去了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是一步一步完成的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要告訴你，我們也不要只有內宣、外宣，我們要真正的實務，也不要只有話術，因為產業就是產業。本席也最支持我們的產業，所以本席提一個具體建議，也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做，你們可以說的要告訴民眾，而且不要讓民眾到現在就整個談判都是「霧煞煞」的，因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電不夠，還要再搬一個科技產業園區。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是送。"],["龔部長明鑫：那個不是送。"],["卓院長榮泰：你不能用這樣的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那到底……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你不能用「送一個台積電」，不是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你不願意說「送」，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：是台積公司自己去設廠。"],["龔部長明鑫：那是全球布局、一部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席希望要以臺灣的產業能夠穩定……"],["卓院長榮泰：那當然。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：當然，立足臺灣是第一要件。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，是不是如此？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們剛剛講過，談判的原則就是以國家的利益、產業的利益、國人的健康跟糧食安全……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，終於有一個共識，以國家的利益，以產業的權益……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：跟產業的穩定性以及就業率。"],["龔部長明鑫：是的、是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個是我們很重要的，所以你必須有這個責任，將剛剛我們所討論的，要能夠讓民眾了解。"],["龔部長明鑫：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請教，我們今天討論的這個議題，重點在於，也要對你們肯定的是，你們最後終於願意面對民意，站在在野黨的這個建議從善地，終於要普發現金1萬元，所以民眾很期待。本席要請教，因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力，以及我們整個振興經濟，新加坡、其他國家都已經在做，所以我也肯定你們終於聽到民意、願意這麼做，所以請教我們現在預算進來，如果在10月中完成，那請教院長什麼時候會正式發放？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：依照特別條例的規定，是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在我想藍、綠、白大家都支持了嘛！行政院也支持了，我也非常謝謝。所以本席還是說，月中的時候如果通過，你們必須要從速……"],["卓院長榮泰：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且以公平、有效的方式趕快發放，是不是如此的方向？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，有關準備工作，請部長再說明重點。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：預計什麼時候會發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：立法院通過之後，你什麼時候會發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：特別預算通過以後，總統公布，一個月以內一定發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對、是！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們一定會把時間縮短、儘快，目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中，包含……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！同步進行！"],["莊部長翠雲：包含系統，還有ATM也可以領。其實要跟委員報告，根據上一次的分析結果，大家到網站去登記、入帳的大概占了接近5成，另外還有很大一個部分是ATM，所以這兩個部分一定要好好地做，讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到。還有一個就是造冊直接發放，這個部分的清冊都要持續核對，因為有很多民眾是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以同步進行嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，現在同步都在進行，我們會用最快的速度儘快來辦理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：關於最快的速度，院長，我們是不是可以這麼解讀：10月底大概就可以進行發放的工作？因為現在在同步進行。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，如果一切順利的話，馬上就可以發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：馬上就可以發放？好！這個非常好！終於藍綠白、行政院院際大家都同意，也就是幫助、緩解物價高的壓力，以及振興並刺激國內產業，這對我們的小店家來講是非常非常重要的。所以就誠如院長所說的儘快來發，我們的解讀是在10月底就可以發放。我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序要趕快同步進行、研謀成功，謝謝！","接下來本席要跟你討論，今天政府舉債3.4兆，平均每一個人扛債25.6萬。一直有很多人對民進黨執政以來的特別預算有不一樣的論述，在這樣的情況之下，立法院預算中心也特別指出，107年度到113年度，公共債務的增加都是以編列特別預算為基準，等於也是加重我們的財務負擔。多數的特別預算都會排除預算法、公共債務法和財政紀律法的規範，因為它是特別預算嘛，所以會排除掉這些。我們看到，目前累計特別預算部分的舉債是3.4兆，已經高於年度總預算最高的3.1兆，如果持續以這種旁門左道的方式來控管債務流量，可能也會持續使整個公共債務攀升。預算中心也特別提到，中央政府一年以上公共債務未償餘額有五兆多，換句話說，平均每一個人的負債就是剛剛本席所說的25.6萬。如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬，同時不再增加公共債務的情況而言，明年度也就是115年度的債務還本是1,265億元。如果以這樣的基準數來計算，等於要46年才可以還得完。院長，所以本席要告訴你……"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個計算不是這樣子……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：待會兒給你回答。","本席要告訴院長，特別預算裡頭的項目有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊的，比如說我們的弱勢關懷、老弱補助……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有增加項目跟內容啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，獨居老人項目。","你先不要緊張，本席告訴你。包括中低收入戶，還有資通的部分，這個在公務預算裡頭都有，那是不是有重疊？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們有增加。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席具體告訴你，因為這次舉債是1,056億元，如果是這樣的情況，你們是不是再去盤點？如果有重複的，務必要拿掉……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有重複、沒有重複。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為都是人民的納稅錢！所以本席要說的是，你如果沒有辦法改變這樣的方式，財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢？所以本席要請教院長，這樣的數字當然很沉重，你們除了編列特別預算來避開整個公共債務的流量管制，還有沒有其他財源可以生財？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們儘快發放現金，到了第二段的時候，又說我們舉債過多。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您身為院長，我是滿尊重你，你這樣講……"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這樣講，我又要給你負分了喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的舉債就是這樣子來的啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：普發現金是超徵稅收，是不在這個預算的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有超徵稅收，那個都在我們歲入的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這四年超徵了這麼多，是拿這個來算。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長跟委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以當我們在質詢的時候，我們希望聽到的是院長你的政策……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們原來的特別預算是不用舉債的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望聽到你的政策，院長。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們是有遵守財政紀律，而且所有的舉債沒有違背公債法和財政紀律法，都在管控，而債務的計算不是跟這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然都是在……"],["莊部長翠雲：而且我們的債務事實上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要問院長，謝謝你。"],["莊部長翠雲：在世界上是非常優等的，我們的財政政策是這樣的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：時間的關係，本席要請問院長，舉債跟還款……"],["卓院長榮泰：都必須。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面，你們的計畫是什麼？如果依照現在還款，你要46年才可以還得完，不再舉債喔。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們每年都照我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席具體請教，你也給本席書面資料。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的償還債務。"],["莊部長翠雲：而且我們還增加還債，除了預算數之外，我們還增加債務……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我跟院長在談話。"],["莊部長翠雲：都超過1兆了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席希望聽到你的答案。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經還款增加了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是舉債跟還款的計畫……"],["莊部長翠雲：都有在做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我希望你提供一份書面資料給本席，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒問題，可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我在問院長，可以嗎？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然可以。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間可以給本席？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是公開而且正確的數字。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問多久時間可以給本席？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個財政部馬上可以提供。"],["莊部長翠雲：可以啊！我們可以提供。"],["卓院長榮泰：這有現成……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：馬上給本席。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席也就是希望你在舉債跟還款的時候，你要冷靜的、有政策，才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平衡。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，在議場二樓旁聽的是來自花蓮汎札徠獅子會的好朋友們，我們海內外都很關心花蓮鄉親，我們掌聲歡迎各位到來。","接下來休息10分鐘之後，請林憶君委員質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時31分）","繼續開會（11時42分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},{"id":"163798","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163798","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890f473d78716de2100704543300bdabf029c82953a25bf8a34849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:59:37 - 11:15:37","影片長度":"00:16:00","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T10:59:37+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T11:15:37+08:00","duration":960,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.18284375000000003,"end":1.71846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.387843750000002,"end":12.079718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.552218750000002,"end":12.636593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":12.704093750000002,"end":12.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.429718750000003,"end":16.129718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":16.75409375,"end":18.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.184093750000002,"end":28.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":28.49909375,"end":30.102218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":30.355343750000003,"end":35.822843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":36.58221875,"end":38.20221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.438468750000006,"end":40.767218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":41.189093750000005,"end":58.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":58.469093750000006,"end":67.61534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":68.05409375,"end":70.99034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.39534375000001,"end":73.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.74096875000001,"end":75.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":76.28909375,"end":79.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.38971875,"end":81.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.78596875000001,"end":91.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":91.66221875000001,"end":94.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.16784375,"end":99.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.15471875,"end":102.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.25534375000001,"end":109.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.48221875,"end":112.50284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.62096875,"end":114.39284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.84034375,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.69659375,"end":118.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":118.24034375000001,"end":121.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.40034375,"end":121.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":121.83471875000001,"end":123.10034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":124.06221875000001,"end":127.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":127.97721875000002,"end":133.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":133.71471875,"end":136.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":137.73096875000002,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":138.77721875,"end":140.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.49846875,"end":145.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":146.16846875000002,"end":148.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.63221875000002,"end":151.18034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":151.87221875,"end":152.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.88471875000002,"end":159.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":160.29284375,"end":161.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":161.42346875,"end":162.57096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":162.97596875000002,"end":163.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.42721875,"end":172.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":172.72971875000002,"end":175.34534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":176.23971875,"end":180.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":180.88034375,"end":187.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":187.71471875,"end":191.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":192.45659375000002,"end":193.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":193.60409375,"end":195.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":195.66284375,"end":197.08034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":198.21096875,"end":198.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":199.42596875,"end":202.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":202.90221875,"end":205.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":206.19284375,"end":208.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.96034375000002,"end":217.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":217.81971875000002,"end":227.47221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":228.06284375,"end":241.86659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":242.40659375,"end":253.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":254.32034375,"end":254.97846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":256.19346875,"end":256.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":258.64034375,"end":259.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":260.88471875,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.89471875000004,"end":281.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":282.34971875,"end":285.70784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":286.16346875,"end":287.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":287.93534375,"end":289.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":290.68596875000003,"end":290.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":292.03596875,"end":294.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":294.82034375,"end":301.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.83721875000003,"end":295.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.21159375,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.34534375000004,"end":310.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.90221875000003,"end":312.48846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.34909375,"end":316.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":316.60596875000005,"end":321.48284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":325.53284375000004,"end":325.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.54971875,"end":326.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.71409375,"end":353.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":349.83284375,"end":351.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":351.53721875,"end":352.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":352.90409375,"end":355.03034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":355.11471875,"end":383.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":383.88659375000003,"end":390.07971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":390.65346875,"end":395.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":396.30659375000005,"end":396.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":397.89284375000005,"end":399.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":399.41159375,"end":400.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":400.71096875,"end":404.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.30096875000004,"end":409.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":409.60409375,"end":410.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.03846875000005,"end":414.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.22346875000005,"end":416.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.07971875000004,"end":418.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.18909375000004,"end":427.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.74971875,"end":423.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.89659375,"end":432.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.12784375,"end":435.01784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.22034375000004,"end":438.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":438.42659375000005,"end":455.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":455.43659375000004,"end":458.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":458.92971875,"end":461.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":461.71409375,"end":466.67534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":467.43471875000006,"end":470.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":470.75909375000003,"end":479.70284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":480.07409375000003,"end":484.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":484.71471875000003,"end":485.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":485.67659375000005,"end":487.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":487.39784375000005,"end":489.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":489.59159375,"end":492.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":492.61221875,"end":497.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":497.48909375000005,"end":499.24409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":500.35784375000003,"end":503.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":504.08721875000003,"end":516.4734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":516.64221875,"end":517.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":518.32971875,"end":522.8015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":523.4428437500001,"end":524.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":525.50159375,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":530.14221875,"end":532.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":532.52159375,"end":545.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.5109687500001,"end":565.5459687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":566.0690937500001,"end":586.6059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":586.84221875,"end":592.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.54159375,"end":594.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.9084687500001,"end":596.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.96721875,"end":599.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":599.3803437500001,"end":600.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.9328437500001,"end":603.0928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.27846875,"end":604.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":604.0378437500001,"end":605.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":605.67471875,"end":606.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.49721875,"end":611.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":611.74971875,"end":612.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.3022187500001,"end":617.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":616.50846875,"end":619.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.3984687500001,"end":622.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":623.41034375,"end":626.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":626.44784375,"end":627.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.49409375,"end":628.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.1015937500001,"end":632.2022187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":632.4722187500001,"end":637.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":637.9397187500001,"end":646.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":647.3728437500001,"end":652.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":652.8740937499999,"end":654.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":656.55284375,"end":656.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":657.1772187500001,"end":657.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":658.08846875,"end":659.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":659.1853437500001,"end":660.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":663.8428437500002,"end":665.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":665.6484687500001,"end":667.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":667.3190937500001,"end":676.3640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":677.3259687500001,"end":701.7947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":704.1909687500001,"end":707.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":708.30846875,"end":714.1809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":714.9740937500001,"end":719.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":719.96909375,"end":735.86534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":736.42221875,"end":746.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.9522187500002,"end":769.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":770.20596875,"end":771.8428437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":772.60221875,"end":780.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":780.7865937500001,"end":784.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.1740937500001,"end":788.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":788.93721875,"end":806.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":806.63909375,"end":810.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":812.54534375,"end":813.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":814.4353437500001,"end":815.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":816.6965937500001,"end":817.8272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":818.87346875,"end":826.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":827.7665937500001,"end":834.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":835.47846875,"end":837.0984687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":838.14471875,"end":842.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":842.86971875,"end":850.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":851.62784375,"end":857.3147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":858.0065937500001,"end":859.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":860.48721875,"end":862.4109687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":863.03534375,"end":868.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":869.4140937500001,"end":879.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":880.5347187500001,"end":882.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":882.99846875,"end":884.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.5678437500001,"end":885.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":885.9853437500001,"end":886.8797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.1328437500001,"end":889.3940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.00159375,"end":890.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":890.74409375,"end":892.3640937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":892.70159375,"end":894.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":895.18221875,"end":896.3803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":896.65034375,"end":899.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":898.59096875,"end":900.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":900.39659375,"end":902.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":902.50596875,"end":906.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":906.8259687500001,"end":907.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":908.29409375,"end":910.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":911.0615937500002,"end":915.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":920.96721875,"end":921.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":921.96284375,"end":922.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.9709687500001,"end":927.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.20284375,"end":925.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.45596875,"end":925.9284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.9622187500001,"end":926.0803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":928.12221875,"end":929.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":929.7422187500001,"end":929.96159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":929.97846875,"end":930.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":940.2553437500001,"end":944.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":944.6765937500002,"end":946.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":946.51596875,"end":949.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":954.4640937500001,"end":957.8559687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.236,"end":17.937,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢卓院長 所有團隊大家辛苦了我們先看下一頁"},{"start":19.229,"end":35.617,"text":"您上周在立法院新會期的施政報告您說了內閣的三大重建也是台灣急需的三大重建經貿佈局的重建災民生活的重建以及社會信任的重建我認為都非常重要"},{"start":36.621,"end":57.798,"text":"但我也要提台湾最严峻的一个挑战往往在于我们很多的社会资讯被错假消息所影响了所混淆了这也就是三大重建当中您罕见的把社会的信任重建列在重要的施政方针上我非常的肯定"},{"start":58.559,"end":81.541,"text":"所以說我們要社會信任的重建就是要有效的反制錯假訊息有效的去破解這些認知作戰所以當認知作戰無所不在對方是用槍砲彈藥的時候我們執政部門就不能還在拿彈弓啊所以說如果"},{"start":82.847,"end":94.806,"text":"政府要迎向一個重建社會秩序也就是等於要保障提升我們的執政效能如果有SOP的話你認為SOP是什麼當然我們一向"},{"start":97.489,"end":122.965,"text":"對整個社會的要求就是對守法對好人要進行更多的保障對於不法的對那個侵犯別人的我們一定要有法律的依據作為工具來嚴格的懲罰這樣才能建立一個社會公平的那條線社會安全的那條線建立起來之後我們才有資格跟能力要求人民跟我們信賴我們共同建立社會制度一起前進好下一頁"},{"start":124.127,"end":136.718,"text":"我很快的列舉出我認為我們的執政團隊需要有重建社會信任來保障提升我們執政效能的SOP"},{"start":137.796,"end":162.39,"text":"第一步有效情搜你要知道社會在關心什麼什麼樣的錯假訊息正在肆虐正在擴散第二步叫做精準闢謠第三你要加速擴散真相加速擴散我們的政策內涵最後一個不能偏廢的"},{"start":163.01,"end":175.107,"text":"必要的時候讓法律途徑讓司法來保護每一個閣員保護我們政府的執政效能所以這是我思考出來的"},{"start":176.314,"end":196.187,"text":"重建社會秩序行政部門要有的SOP有效情搜第一步精準闢謠第二步快速擴散很重要最後必要的話採取司法的途徑下一頁這兩天我要替我們內政部劉士芳部長說話"},{"start":198.257,"end":225.116,"text":"一個這麼努力在防災跟救災來統領我們的內閣團隊的指揮官我們劉部長居然到昨天還在被國民黨黨中央連災情也在消費連救災也在造謠國民黨造謠說劉世芳行我們的行政院內政部延緩了撤離的關鍵13小時"},{"start":228.138,"end":254.647,"text":"我要肯定我們劉部長昨天快速的行政院的院會後的記者會快速的澄清而且補充你在家就是你秀出了我們的完整的通聯記錄用完整的資訊正確的資訊seeing is believing就在這裡國民黨不要再造謠我認為非常快速而且精準有效但是"},{"start":258.686,"end":286.927,"text":"有沒有考慮我直接破題好了 院長我非常支持我們內閣團隊往往覺得息事寧人新會期有預算要審預算在在野黨的手上或者是我們內閣團隊就不應當去新送我認為除了闢謠必要的時候採取提告司法的途徑是非常重要劉部長你覺得呢"},{"start":288.287,"end":312.152,"text":"我們可以審慎考慮院長你會支持我們的團隊鼓勵大家必要的時候因為這打擊的不只是個人的形象他重挫的是政府的效能的形象我尊重部長對個人權益的選擇但我鼓勵部長為維護整個團隊要做出必要的想法好 我們來看下一段影片"},{"start":313.631,"end":321.089,"text":"這是昨天晚間在所有花蓮的地方群組快速傳散的一個影片來"},{"start":325.56,"end":326.961,"text":"可以播放嗎好 停了"},{"start":351.664,"end":373.224,"text":"簡單講我要告訴院長部長這個影片昨天夜間在數十個花蓮的地方群組有系統性計劃性的大量的擴散他講的造謠的內容就是現在我們的政災所收到的善款會被民進黨政府"},{"start":373.564,"end":393.695,"text":"拿去挪用用在不跟救災相關的事情甚至就是會侵吞了這群災民應當獲得的善款這就是不折不扣的造謠昨天晚上到今天早上快速的在傳散一夕之間數十個上百個群組這樣擴散這絕對背後有組織性"},{"start":399.772,"end":414.672,"text":"絕對是謠言吧每一封的善款就是用在災民身上就是用在災區重建我的說法是這個是將自己的不了解跟猜測變成一種懷疑把自己的不信任要擴大成為全國人民的不信任"},{"start":415.396,"end":437.71,"text":"這是非常要不得的一個行為政府從來沒有說過政災基金會收的款項要做這個做那個從來沒有說過我們從來政災基金會政委捐款到昨天已經七億八千萬了我們一定會用在災民身上而且會直接快速有效的發放下禮拜 陳金德政委就會到災區一戰式的來受理很多的作業內容"},{"start":438.456,"end":466.127,"text":"好 謝謝院長的說明面對錯假訊息絕對要回到我們剛剛的SOP你要勤搜 獲得資訊你要精準的闢謠你要快速的擴散正確的訊息最後考慮採取司法的途徑我跟院長報告 柏中你也能請回 辛苦了手上這一張是我最近收到的我擔任民進黨幹事長的這段時間我受到非常多的安全威脅"},{"start":467.492,"end":483.584,"text":"不管寫email的或打電話來的我一向也認為習是寧人但如果習是寧人就是姑息養奸如果持續的溫良公儉讓就是為虎作娼所以我第一次針對我個人威脅我"},{"start":486.005,"end":503.132,"text":"斬首行動賴清德也保不了你的這一個威脅的事件我提告了而我這幾天收到我們台北士林地方檢察署的這個檢疫的判決也就是會處以也抓到人了"},{"start":505.107,"end":528.517,"text":"讓這一個恐嚇威脅跟你意見不同的人還要付出代價他要接受司法的制裁我說過我過去也認為習氏寧人可能選民有情緒我們要理解但如果一再的去縱容姑息真的就是為虎作倡所以我鼓勵夏業從過去陳時中擔任防疫指揮官"},{"start":530.242,"end":545.469,"text":"每一個造謠都針對他重挫政府防疫的所有的執政效能跟形象但是正因為陳時中提告了62個司法案件還他清白全部不起訴千劫"},{"start":546.893,"end":564.774,"text":"陳吉仲部長當時的超思雞蛋案也被在野黨聯手認知作戰如何可怕還有中國在背後引舞也透過司法還陳吉仲清白正義雖然會遲到但是正義一定會到"},{"start":566.135,"end":591.962,"text":"所以我希望行政院給予我們所有的內閣首長一個最強大的支持如果傷及個人的聲譽如果傷及我們執政的效能國家的形象更是破壞了社會的信任的話我們該告就告您願意給所有內閣的閣員這一個最強大的支持力量嗎"},{"start":593.561,"end":621.792,"text":"你所提到的應該是網路上的人權啊對網路人權我們通常都比較沒有正面去看待他但是如果這個已經變成傷害個人傷害如果是我剛講國民黨啊如果傷害個人傷害團隊傷害到人民跟政府之間的信任我鼓勵我也支持所有在網路上被這些霸凌或是被這些網路不只網路我也是這個也是被霸凌或是用這種"},{"start":623.493,"end":636.97,"text":"推卸性的口語去做一些人生的攻擊我請我們的首長一方面尊重他自己的選擇一方面鼓勵為團隊做出應該有的做法好 謝謝也希望所有的內閣官員我們獲得院長的支持"},{"start":637.984,"end":653.477,"text":"也就是司法是社會正義的最後一道防線我們不濫訴但是保護國家保護閣員我認為必要的話必須採取司法的途徑剛剛講到SOP下葉院長你有被跟拍嗎我到目前沒有感覺到沒有感覺那你覺得你有沒有"},{"start":663.868,"end":675.152,"text":"您應該會有您也我想極有可能會有甚至連坐在我們台上的韓國瑜院長很有可能也是這個跟拍狗仔集團的獵殺名單吧"},{"start":677.969,"end":701.061,"text":"剛剛講的SOP我同樣在這裡用短短的時間在民主法治的社會居然發生這種為了打擊政敵用盯梢用跟監用偷拍的方式來做出極不道德而且違法的狗仔行為我們除了表達遺憾更要譴責我甚至建議韓國瑜院長立法院要不要成立一個調查委員會啊"},{"start":704.189,"end":714.009,"text":"或者是立法院也可以考慮在院會作出一個譴責案因為在座的113位立委包括韓國瑜院長都極有可能是受害者"},{"start":715.031,"end":735.42,"text":"所以說反跟姦反偷拍反對這種政治征防前端要有效的預防我也呼籲啟動我們所有的保六或者是我們刑事警察局協助所有的內閣閣員所有的坐車的安全要去做這些反跟車的科技的作為有效預防"},{"start":736.46,"end":757.681,"text":"第二個SOP如果查到真的有被跟拍的事實而且是違法的手段末端就要來嚴格就處該告就告當然這是保護閣員的隱私之外也是保障國家的安全因為我們不知道這個偷拍集團背後有沒有境外勢力"},{"start":758.402,"end":782.022,"text":"所以這個SOP我也希望院長支持所有的閣員協助我們所有的 必要用科技的方式來反跟監 反偷拍大家損一下大家保護大家保護閣員 保護我們的政府就是保護國家安全院長這個SOP是我今天給您的第二個建議現在進入我們關稅談判我們來看看"},{"start":785.239,"end":810.217,"text":"五五波的這件事對不起五五分很遺憾剛剛前一位質詢的張其凱委員還在明知在談判沒有觸及不可能答應也絕對沒有承諾的所謂的台美晶片產能五五分這件事情他還在這裡持續的擴散錯假的訊息我今天要用最後短短的時間我們來看看赴美投資的那一頁"},{"start":812.571,"end":836.693,"text":"跟院長分享喔 赴美投資就是罪惡的嗎赴美投資就應當被解讀是產業外移掏空台灣嗎我們看看國際社會各個主要國家這幾年對美的投資存量的總額都不斷的攀升而台灣並沒有如"},{"start":838.188,"end":862.186,"text":"在野黨的委員所擴散的那麼嚴重我們看看日本看看韓國看看中國也好德國也好世界各國都在佈局全球所以台灣不只不落人於後更要搶得先機不要把赴美投資妖魔化下一頁在我們看台灣模式那一頁我非常支持這個台灣模式"},{"start":863.366,"end":878.793,"text":"讓台灣成功的產業聚落的方式可以在全球落地這是壯大台灣不是掏空台灣這個G2G的合作您在這裡告訴我們是不是極有可能被實踐"},{"start":880.695,"end":907.249,"text":"談判已經到最後關鍵的這個時刻了那所有的細節這個磋商都已經完成了目前在等待的就是雙方對一些彼此的條件最後一個承諾那麼再做一個最後的總結所以總結會議我們認為啊會在適當的時間就出現我們總結會議會納入這個台灣模式那五五分這個部分副院長已經說過很多次了沒有談過沒有承諾也不會答應好最後一頁"},{"start":908.345,"end":915.135,"text":"我要在這裡再一次的支持擴大對美國的投資布局全球不是白白送錢"},{"start":918.251,"end":944.559,"text":"要我們家一起賺大錢我們作為產業最強大的實力我支持要臺灣博士可以加強研擬促成美國政府接受我們這個營銷的方案他說我們不會是在老實在說的只是掏錢賺錢我們是用產業經貨合資共生共利共贏的方式來影響臺美的官員的看法"},{"start":954.483,"end":955.063,"text":"好 謝謝吳斯堯委員質詢 謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（10時59分）謝謝韓院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：院長、所有內閣團隊，大家辛苦了。上週在立法院新會期的施政報告，您說了內閣的三大重建，也是臺灣急需的三大重建：經貿布局的重建、災民生活的重建以及社會信任的重建；我認為都非常重要！但我也要提，臺灣最嚴峻的一個挑戰往往在於我們很多社會資訊被錯假消息所影響了、所混淆了，這也就是三大重建當中，您罕見地把社會信任的重建列在重要的施政方針上，我非常的肯定。所以說我們要有社會信任的重建，就是要有效地反制錯假訊息、有效地去破解這些認知作戰。當認知作戰無所不在，對方是用槍砲彈藥的時候，我們執政部門就不能還在拿彈弓。如果政府要迎向一個重建社會秩序，也就是等於要保障提升我們的執政效能，如果有SOP的話，您認為SOP是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然我們一向對整個社會的要求，就是對守法、對好人要進行更多的保障，對於不法的、對那個侵犯別人的，我們一定要有法律的依據作為工具來嚴格的懲罰，這樣才能建立一個社會公平的那條線、社會安全的那條線，建立起來之後我們才有資格跟能力要求人民信賴我們共同建立起來的社會制度。"],["吳委員思瑤：往對的方向一起前進。","我很快列舉出我認為我們的執政團隊需要有重建社會信任來保障提升我們執政效能的SOP，第一步：有效情蒐。你要知道社會在關心什麼，什麼樣的錯假訊息正在肆虐、正在擴散。第二步叫做精準闢謠。第三，你要加速擴散真相，加速擴散我們的政策內涵。最後一個不能偏廢的，必要的時候讓法律途徑、讓司法來保護每一個閣員，保護我們政府的執政效能。所以這是我思考出來的重建社會秩序，行政部門要有的SOP。有效情蒐：第一步；精準闢謠：第二步；快速擴散很重要！最後，必要的話採取司法途徑。","這兩天我要替我們內政部劉世芳部長說話，一個這麼努力在防災跟救災統領我們內閣團隊的指揮官──我們的劉部長，居然到昨天國民黨黨中央連災情也在消費、連救災也在造謠，國民黨造謠說我們的行政院內政部延緩了撤離的關鍵13小時，我要肯定我們劉部長昨天在行政院院會後的記者會快速地澄清，而且部長你在這裡，最有效的就是你秀出了完整的通聯紀錄，用完整的資訊、正確的資訊，Seeing is believing！就在這裡！國民黨不要再造謠，我認為非常快速，而且精準有效，但是 and then？有沒有考慮……我直接破題好了，院長，我非常支持……我們內閣團隊往往覺得息事寧人，新會期有預算要審、預算在在野黨的手上，或者是我們內閣團隊就不應當去興訟，我認為除了闢謠，必要的時候採取提告，司法的途徑是非常重要！劉部長，你覺得呢？"],["劉部長世芳：我們可以審慎考慮。"],["吳委員思瑤：院長，你會支持我們的團隊，鼓勵大家必要的時候……因為這打擊的不只是個人的形象，它重挫的是政府的效能的形象。"],["卓院長榮泰：我尊重部長對個人權益的選擇，但我鼓勵部長，為維護整個團隊要做出必要的想法！"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我們來看下一段影片，這是昨天晚間在花蓮所有的地方群組快速傳散的一個影片。","（播放影片）"],["吳委員思瑤：簡單講，我要告訴院長、部長，這個影片昨天夜間在數十個花蓮的地方群組，有系統性、計畫性地大量擴散，它講的造謠內容就是現在賑災所收到的善款會被民進黨政府拿去挪用，用在跟救災不相關的事情，甚至會侵吞了災民應當獲得的善款，這就是不折不扣的造謠！從昨天晚上到今天早上快速地在傳散，一夕之間在數十個、上百個群組這樣擴散，這背後絕對有組織性。部長跟院長，這絕對是謠言吧！每一分的善款就是用在災民身上，就是用在災區重建！"],["卓院長榮泰：我的說法是，這個是將自己的不瞭解跟猜測變成一種懷疑，把自己的不信任要擴大成為全國人民的不信任，這是非常要不得的一個行為。政府從來沒有說過賑災基金會收的款項要做這個、要做那個，從來沒有說過……"],["吳委員思瑤：不可能挪用。"],["卓院長榮泰：賑災基金會的這個捐款到昨天已經7億8,000萬元了，我們一定會用在災民身上，而且會直接、快速、有效地發放。陳金德政委下禮拜就會到災區，一站式的來受理很多的作業內容。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝院長的說明。面對錯假訊息絕對要回到我們剛剛的SOP，要情蒐獲得資訊、要精準地闢謠、要快速地擴散正確的訊息，最後考慮採取司法的途徑。","我跟院長報告，部長，你可以請回，辛苦了。手上這一張是我最近收到的，在擔任民進黨幹事長的這段時間，我收到非常多的安全威脅，不管寫e-mail的或打電話來的，我一向也認為息事寧人。但如果息事寧人，就是姑息養奸；如果持續地溫良恭儉讓，就是為虎作倀。所以我第一次針對對我個人的威脅，威脅我「要斬首行動，賴清德也保不了你」的事件提告了。這幾天我收到臺灣士林地方檢察署的簡易判決，也就是會處以……也抓到人了，讓這一個恐嚇、威脅跟你意見不同的人最後要付出代價、要接受司法的制裁。","我說過過去我也認為息事寧人，可能選民有情緒，我們要理解，但如果一再地縱容、姑息，真的就是為虎作倀，所以我鼓勵……從過去陳時中擔任防疫指揮官時，每一個造謠都針對他而重挫政府所有防疫的執政效能跟形象，但是正因為對陳時中提告的62個司法案件全部不起訴簽結所以還他清白；陳吉仲部長當時的超思雞蛋案，也被在野黨聯手認知作戰說是如何可怕，還有中國在背後影武，這也透過司法還陳吉仲清白。","正義雖然會遲到，但是正義一定會到！所以我希望行政院給予所有的內閣首長最強大的支持，如果傷及個人的聲譽，傷及執政的效能、國家的形象，更破壞了社會的信任，我們該告就告，您願意給所有內閣閣員這一個最強大的支持力量嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員所提到的應該是網路上的人權，對網路的人權我們通常都比較沒有正面去看待，但是如果已經變成傷害個人、傷害團隊……"],["吳委員思瑤：如果是……我剛剛講國民黨啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：如果傷害個人、傷害團隊，傷害到人民跟政府之間的信任，我鼓勵、也支持所有在網路上被霸凌或是被這些……"],["吳委員思瑤：不只網路，我說的……"],["卓院長榮泰：網路上也是，被霸凌或者用威脅性的口語去做一些人身的攻擊，我請我們的首長一方面尊重他自己的選擇，一方面我鼓勵為團隊做出應該有的作法。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝，也希望所有的內閣官員獲得院長的支持，也就是司法是社會正義的最後一道防線，我們不濫訴，但是保護國家、保護閣員，我認為必要的話，必須採取司法的途徑。","剛剛講到SOP，院長，你有被跟拍嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我到目前沒有感覺到。"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有感覺，那你覺得你有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：欸……"],["吳委員思瑤：您應該會有，我想您也極有可能會有，甚至連坐在台上的韓國瑜院長很有可能也是跟拍狗仔集團的獵殺名單吧？","剛剛講的SOP，我同樣在這裡用短短的時間說明。在民主法治的社會居然發生這種為了打擊政敵，用盯梢、用跟監、用偷拍的方式來做出極不道德而且違法的狗仔行為，我們除了表達遺憾，更要譴責，我甚至建議韓國瑜院長，立法院要不要成立調查委員會？或者是立法院也可以考慮在院會做出譴責案，因為在座的113位立委包括韓國瑜院長，都極有可能是受害者，所以說反跟監、反偷拍，反對這種政治偵防，前端要有效的預防，我也呼籲啟動所有的保六或者是刑事警察局，協助所有內閣閣員的座車安全，要去做反跟車的科技作為來有效預防。","第二個SOP，如果查到真的有被跟拍的事實，而且是違法的手段，末端就要來嚴格究處，該告就告，當然這除了是保護閣員的隱私之外，也是保障國家的安全，因為我們不知道這個偷拍集團背後有沒有境外勢力。所以這個SOP，我也希望院長支持協助所有的閣員以必要的科技方式來反跟監、反偷拍，大家巡一次，保護自己，保護閣員，保護我們的政府就是保護國家安全。院長，這個SOP是我今天給您的第二個建議。","現在進入關稅談判，我們來看看五五波的這件事，對不起，是五五分。很遺憾，剛剛前一位質詢的張啓楷委員明知在談判沒有觸及、不可能答應，也絕對沒有承諾的所謂臺美晶片產能五五分這件事情，他還在這裡持續地擴散錯假的訊息。我今天要用最後短短的時間跟院長分享，赴美投資就是罪惡的嗎？赴美投資就應當被解讀是產業外移、掏空臺灣嗎？我們看看國際社會，各個主要國家這幾年對美的投資存量總額都不斷地攀升，而臺灣並沒有如在野黨委員所言擴散地那麼嚴重，我們看看日本、看看韓國、看看中國、看看德國，世界各國都在布局全球，所以臺灣不只不落人後，更要搶得先機，不要把赴美投資妖魔化。","我們看臺灣模式這一頁，我非常支持這個臺灣模式，讓臺灣成功的產業以聚落方式可以在全球落地，這是壯大臺灣，不是掏空臺灣。這個G to G的合作，您在這裡告訴我們，是不是極有可能被實踐？"],["卓院長榮泰：談判已經到最後關鍵時刻了，對所有細節的磋商都已經完成，目前等待的就是雙方彼此對一些條件最後做一個承諾，再做最後的總結，所以我們認為會在適當時間出現總結會議最後的協議。"],["吳委員思瑤：五五分這個臺灣模式？"],["卓院長榮泰：五五分部分，副院長已經說過很多次了，沒有談過，沒有承諾，也不會答應。"],["吳委員思瑤：好。我要在這裡再一次地支持，擴大對美國的投資、布局全球不是白白送錢，而是跟美國、跟世界主要國家一起賺大錢，我們作為產業最強大的支持力，我支持讓臺灣模式可以加強研議，促成美國政府接受我們這個有效的方案，它就不會是在野黨一再說的只是掏錢、給錢，我們是用產業聚落、合資、共生、共利、共贏的方式來迎向臺美關稅談判最終的正向結果，大家辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝，我們朝這個方向在努力中。"],["吳委員思瑤：那今天給您的幾個SOP帶回去保護閣員、保護國家。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。"],["吳委員思瑤：還有保護韓院長。"],["主席：接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，楊委員質詢之後，我們將會休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}},{"id":"163797","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163797","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/095f1cfadbf5b890da6e0ce66730d1e2704543300bdabf029c82953a25bf8a34849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"10:42:48 - 10:59:07","影片長度":"00:16:19","會議時間":"2025-10-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2025-10-03","start_time":"2025-10-03T10:42:48+08:00","end_time":"2025-10-03T10:59:07+08:00","duration":979,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第4會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-4-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":4,"sessionTimes":3},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":22.44096875,"end":24.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.516593750000002,"end":26.153468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":35.63721875,"end":36.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":37.00409375,"end":38.05034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":39.21471875,"end":42.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.572843750000004,"end":43.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":43.58534375,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.90971875,"end":47.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":48.681593750000005,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":58.148468750000006,"end":63.90284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":64.56096875,"end":72.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":73.09971875000001,"end":75.00659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":75.46221875,"end":77.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":77.94284375000001,"end":79.81596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.96784375,"end":81.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":82.53284375000001,"end":87.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":87.76409375,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":89.09721875000001,"end":90.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":90.64971875,"end":93.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":93.58596875,"end":93.95721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":94.10909375,"end":110.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":111.33846875,"end":112.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":113.58284375000001,"end":115.21971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":116.04659375000001,"end":117.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":118.30784375,"end":119.87721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.09659375000001,"end":120.34971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":120.68721875000001,"end":122.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":122.88096875000001,"end":123.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":124.12971875000001,"end":128.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":128.26409375,"end":129.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":130.47471875000002,"end":140.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":141.12284375000002,"end":142.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":142.92846875,"end":144.04221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":144.09284375000001,"end":157.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":149.03721875000002,"end":149.07096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":149.07096875000002,"end":149.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.10471875000002,"end":149.71221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.74596875,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":150.80909375000002,"end":151.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":157.20471875,"end":165.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.46909375,"end":167.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":168.19034375,"end":173.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.31596875000002,"end":180.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":181.20096875000002,"end":184.79534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":185.13284375,"end":185.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":185.58846875,"end":186.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.44909375,"end":203.00346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":197.41784375,"end":198.34596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":203.54346875000002,"end":220.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":214.49534375000002,"end":215.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":215.65971875000002,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.03096875,"end":216.48659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":216.48659375000003,"end":216.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.97596875000002,"end":218.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.08096875,"end":220.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":220.53659375,"end":220.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":220.63784375,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":222.13971875000001,"end":226.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":222.15659375,"end":224.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.09721875000002,"end":224.11409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":226.47659375,"end":229.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":229.58159375000002,"end":230.45909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.57721875000001,"end":230.79659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":230.79659375000003,"end":231.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":230.83034375000003,"end":230.86409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":232.11284375000002,"end":232.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":233.15909375,"end":236.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":237.27659375000002,"end":247.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":244.49909375000001,"end":272.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":247.89096875,"end":248.12721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.67096875000001,"end":251.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":251.72159375,"end":253.17284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.72409375,"end":262.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":271.78596875,"end":285.10034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":274.13159375000004,"end":276.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":278.82284375,"end":279.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":282.09659375,"end":282.87284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":283.75034375,"end":287.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":285.74159375,"end":291.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":287.54721875,"end":290.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":291.47909375,"end":295.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":293.65596875,"end":295.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":295.09034375000005,"end":295.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":295.42784375,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":295.49534375,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":296.62596875,"end":298.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":301.19909375000003,"end":303.17346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.17346875000004,"end":303.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":303.20721875000004,"end":303.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":303.32534375,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":306.32909375,"end":306.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":309.97409375,"end":310.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":310.22721875,"end":312.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":310.53096875,"end":310.90221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":310.90221875000003,"end":312.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.03284375000004,"end":312.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":312.42096875000004,"end":313.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.97784375000003,"end":316.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.14659375,"end":313.36596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":313.36596875000004,"end":313.50096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":313.50096875,"end":314.17596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.17596875000004,"end":314.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":314.41221875,"end":314.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":314.88471875000005,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":316.21784375000004,"end":318.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":318.74909375000004,"end":325.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":319.17096875000004,"end":319.33971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.14096875,"end":322.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":322.24221875,"end":322.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":322.98471875,"end":323.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":323.23784375,"end":325.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":325.24596875000003,"end":325.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":325.51596875,"end":326.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":325.54971875,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":331.20284375,"end":331.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.47284375000004,"end":331.50659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":331.50659375000004,"end":332.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":333.95346875,"end":333.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.96596875,"end":346.66034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":337.93596875000003,"end":338.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":338.00346875,"end":338.02034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":338.02034375,"end":338.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":338.56034375,"end":338.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":338.59409375,"end":338.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":338.76284375,"end":339.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":339.21846875,"end":339.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.33659375,"end":339.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":339.82596875,"end":339.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":339.85971875,"end":340.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":340.02846875,"end":341.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":341.05784375,"end":341.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":346.96409375,"end":347.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.36909375000005,"end":348.60096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":348.07784375,"end":351.30096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.57096875,"end":353.25846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":355.33409375,"end":356.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.43096875000003,"end":356.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":356.70096875,"end":357.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":358.37159375000005,"end":361.66221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.28221875,"end":364.86846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":366.08346875,"end":366.65721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":368.00721875000005,"end":368.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":369.50909375000003,"end":374.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":374.63909375000003,"end":377.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":378.46971875,"end":381.94596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":382.30034375,"end":384.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":384.66284375000004,"end":387.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":388.44284375,"end":389.43846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":390.83909375,"end":395.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":396.03659375,"end":397.63971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":398.06159375000004,"end":398.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":399.19221875000005,"end":400.96409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":401.57159375000003,"end":402.31409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":402.73596875000004,"end":405.55409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":405.90846875000005,"end":407.69721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":408.72659375,"end":416.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":417.11346875000004,"end":419.40846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":419.72909375,"end":420.25221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.78784375000004,"end":426.61409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.12034375,"end":427.94721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":427.96409375,"end":427.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":428.20034375,"end":434.12346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":434.64659375,"end":435.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":436.48596875000004,"end":437.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":439.23659375000005,"end":439.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":440.36721875,"end":441.44721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":442.32471875000005,"end":452.34846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":442.40909375,"end":442.99971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":450.93096875000003,"end":451.53846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":452.98971875,"end":457.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":457.30971875,"end":457.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":458.25471875000005,"end":461.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":460.21221875000003,"end":460.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":461.81534375,"end":461.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":461.86596875000004,"end":468.12659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":468.27846875000006,"end":469.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.67471875,"end":487.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":475.56846875,"end":479.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":486.50346875,"end":494.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":488.66346875000005,"end":490.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.97909375,"end":499.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":498.06284375,"end":519.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":503.47971875,"end":504.99846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":519.5615937499999,"end":519.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.6797187500001,"end":519.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":519.73034375,"end":521.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.74721875,"end":521.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.82284375,"end":536.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.4197187500001,"end":536.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":536.47034375,"end":536.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.63909375,"end":538.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":538.14096875,"end":539.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":538.2084687500001,"end":542.6128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.60909375,"end":539.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":539.74409375,"end":539.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":539.99721875,"end":540.0647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":542.68034375,"end":544.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":545.1103437500001,"end":546.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":545.1440937500001,"end":545.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":546.3928437500001,"end":547.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":546.62909375,"end":556.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":556.8215937500001,"end":558.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":560.28096875,"end":573.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":573.6965937500001,"end":576.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":575.3334687500001,"end":575.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":576.2278437500001,"end":577.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":577.93221875,"end":579.7209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":578.26971875,"end":588.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":580.22721875,"end":580.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.47596875,"end":581.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.50971875,"end":581.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":588.8672187500001,"end":592.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":593.13659375,"end":595.6172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.53721875,"end":602.7553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.89034375,"end":602.9240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":602.9240937500001,"end":604.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.9409687500001,"end":604.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":604.7465937500001,"end":604.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.7634687500001,"end":606.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":604.79721875,"end":610.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":610.75409375,"end":620.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":620.99721875,"end":625.1315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.21159375,"end":627.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":627.17346875,"end":629.6709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":629.8059687500001,"end":634.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":634.21034375,"end":636.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":637.5009687500001,"end":641.7365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":641.92221875,"end":647.5247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.86221875,"end":650.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":651.1865937499999,"end":653.65034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":653.65034375,"end":653.7178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":653.7178437499999,"end":656.9578437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":657.81846875,"end":658.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":660.40034375,"end":661.64909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":662.0203437499999,"end":664.9565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":665.0578437500001,"end":666.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":666.4753437500001,"end":671.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":671.58846875,"end":672.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":672.9722187500001,"end":673.8159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":674.0859687500001,"end":675.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":675.6384687500001,"end":677.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":677.41034375,"end":678.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":678.5915937500001,"end":680.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":680.9709687500001,"end":683.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":683.7553437500001,"end":685.8815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":686.0165937500001,"end":700.5459687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":698.6897187500001,"end":705.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":701.7609687500001,"end":702.0478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":705.7097187500001,"end":707.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":707.2453437500001,"end":707.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":707.5828437499999,"end":709.5403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":709.97909375,"end":713.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":714.2990937500001,"end":718.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":718.60221875,"end":719.6147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":720.17159375,"end":730.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":730.9209687500002,"end":750.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":746.58096875,"end":746.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":746.6315937500001,"end":748.0322187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":749.1965937500001,"end":749.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":750.4284687500001,"end":751.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":750.47909375,"end":756.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":756.4865937500001,"end":759.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":759.4228437500001,"end":760.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":761.1609687499999,"end":761.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":762.76409375,"end":774.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":765.7509687500001,"end":766.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":766.96596875,"end":767.0503437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":767.0503437500001,"end":767.0672187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":773.41221875,"end":774.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":774.81284375,"end":777.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":778.4409687500001,"end":793.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":781.9340937500001,"end":785.1909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":786.22034375,"end":787.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":787.7222187500001,"end":787.8234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":788.2453437500001,"end":788.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.32971875,"end":789.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":789.59534375,"end":789.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":792.7509687500001,"end":793.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":793.83096875,"end":796.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":796.78409375,"end":799.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":797.5434687500001,"end":800.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":800.74971875,"end":802.5047187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":803.3147187500001,"end":809.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":810.11534375,"end":812.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":813.2709687500001,"end":814.1147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":813.7434687500001,"end":818.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":819.26159375,"end":823.3959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":823.91909375,"end":827.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":827.71596875,"end":831.3103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":830.38221875,"end":834.9890937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":835.03971875,"end":840.1359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":836.4740937500001,"end":847.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":848.6072187500001,"end":851.0203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":851.45909375,"end":853.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":854.3447187500001,"end":855.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":857.1965937500001,"end":860.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":861.16221875,"end":862.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":863.0859687500001,"end":864.7397187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":865.41471875,"end":866.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":867.38909375,"end":868.7222187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":871.05096875,"end":871.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":872.1140937500002,"end":873.4978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":874.4765937500001,"end":875.08409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":875.50596875,"end":877.0078437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":877.93596875,"end":879.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":880.29846875,"end":881.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":882.4922187500001,"end":883.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":883.3359687500001,"end":884.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":884.82096875,"end":885.3272187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":886.1540937500001,"end":887.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":887.50409375,"end":893.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":893.95034375,"end":903.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":903.3328437500002,"end":904.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":905.05409375,"end":911.8884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":912.47909375,"end":916.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":917.18721875,"end":921.8615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":922.3003437500001,"end":924.5447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":924.8147187500001,"end":926.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":927.7678437500001,"end":930.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":931.5478437500001,"end":932.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":931.91909375,"end":942.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":942.7865937500001,"end":944.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":944.3897187500002,"end":945.6553437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":945.9422187500002,"end":947.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":947.37659375,"end":947.8828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":948.0009687500001,"end":949.2834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":954.97034375,"end":959.37471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":959.8640937500002,"end":960.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":960.5728437500002,"end":967.9978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":968.89221875,"end":969.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":972.28409375,"end":976.9753437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":23.067,"end":46.126,"text":"謝謝韓院長 請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔣委員早今天大家最關心的就是普發現金一萬年你剛才特別強調說要儘快嘛 對不對事實上"},{"start":48.775,"end":63.442,"text":"在國民黨跟民眾黨的提案是希望在10月底要開始發放這在原來通過的三讀條文是有的可是後來一波三折後來又提了修正案所以今天能不能從你嘴巴很清楚的跟全民講"},{"start":64.602,"end":91.452,"text":"在十月底可以開始發放因為第一個今天復委完之後下個禮拜我們行程已經排好了財政跟經濟聯席會在下個禮拜三跟四最晚禮拜四就會送回宴會了然後到這個時程應該在十月十四號最晚十七號可以完成立法院的三讀可是現在有一個有一個關卡可能會卡住因為你的新的這個條例裡面說"},{"start":93.632,"end":117.082,"text":"要特別預算公告完一個月內開始發放嘛對不對這裡面有彈性啦你今天能不能清楚因為立法院已經快加編了委員會快下個禮拜我們院會應該也很快你今天能不能承諾如果一切順利在最晚最晚在10月底讓果花一萬塊入帳給大家可以領得到最重要的原則是立法院程序快"},{"start":118.325,"end":142.11,"text":"行政院就發放的就會快所以大家都必須快跟快但是一切也要讓整個準備的作業要能夠詳實完整因為要發放2350萬人以上的發放作業是相當大的雖然我們有112年6000元的發放平台當做基礎我們現在在把它進行優化而且今年比較"},{"start":143.11,"end":166.54,"text":"過去不一樣的是我們要防範很多的詐騙行為你看一段時間好多詐騙已經發生一旦我們通過之後可能那個更多所以我們要把詐騙的安全讓他做到這個治安更安全的狀態行政院的這個流程剛我已經跟他報告報告了已經快馬加鞭最晚在10月17號應該可以三讀通過了接下來反而是你這邊了你剛講"},{"start":168.377,"end":173.246,"text":"這個整個作業你現在應該開始要測試啊你現在ATM的這個櫃台機你內容是不是有變更"},{"start":174.766,"end":202.699,"text":"當初收銀商六千的時候那一套現在是可以繼續用的嘛對不對可是領六千跟一萬你完成變更了沒有第二個你開始測試了沒有這個現在要趕快做好不好這已經在準備在做了要趕快做這個要先做那第二次我剛講的你的條文裡面把我們十月底這個修掉了現在你就要盡快好不好往十月底的可以做的方式你自己要趕快做好不好你幫他拉來一百過了結果你因為你的流程延誤了搞到十一月才發放好不好"},{"start":204.382,"end":228.039,"text":"大院審查的程序快我們就會加快但是如果是11月17號到月底只有13天中間還有廉價我們希望能夠更充分的準備所以你現在就趕快做啊包括ATM貴來機這個還有整個測試不用急 我們會很快的做對嘛 這個都是現在可以做的嘛對不對 部長在點頭對 趕快做 部長我強調一下 是老蔣 為什麼延誤到現在在討論這個議題"},{"start":229.921,"end":235.996,"text":"你大概是第一個發錢也是唯一一個發錢給人家還被人家罵的這個院長"},{"start":237.332,"end":266.751,"text":"就是一開始你提什麼違憲 後來又有排戶弄到後來就加了一個什麼不要領來一個選項對不對你看連周一坤都罵 那討論而已那個沒有加 那個只是研議而已沒有加在這個整個 現在五個選項當中沒有加 當初民間團體來要求的是我們是去做研議研議的結果認為最自然的保障還要必須周延 所以並沒有加那個完全沒有延誤 我跟委員報告這個預算案我們是9月11號就送到大院了"},{"start":267.091,"end":275.001,"text":"今天是12月 時間是10月3號我們並沒有延誤太多我9月11號所以必須要清楚我們是哪有延誤沒有那個選項委員 委員"},{"start":285.353,"end":290.298,"text":"委員我沒有那個選項喔沒有那個選項喔你不要說我沒有那個選項喔我跟委員報告9月11號9月11號我們預算案就送來啦"},{"start":301.287,"end":318.174,"text":"為什麼9月11號要到今天10月3號呢我現在跟你說 之前你一開始講到微信後來說到排骨 後來又說到這個選項 那你後來都改了啦都改了就好 可是時間上你完全不了解狀況 我們沒有改我剛剛講的這三個不都是你"},{"start":319.294,"end":345.851,"text":"欸 你翻車 翻了三次我把這個聲像跟你講 叫你檢討你現在又說我不瞭解不要硬拗拗我在提醒你 更重要的不要再出現橫生直結了10月底趕快拋棒我9月11號就送來了 到今天已經快一個月了委員 我們前日作業都在進行當中而且積極的在辦事你今天測試了嘛 對不對對測試 改了ATM那個ATM這一次還增加了加速增加1000多家的ATM機台 對"},{"start":346.98,"end":352.583,"text":"好 OK接下來我們要談專業的請經濟部長 經濟部長一起上來麻煩請經濟部長備詢時間停一下時間暫停財政部長要在我們要談專業的財政部長跟經濟部長一起上來麻煩再請財政部長備詢委員好"},{"start":368.189,"end":386.955,"text":"這一天啊從美國商務部長講到這個台美晶片五五分之後包括昨天鄭麗菁副院長開了記者會講台灣製造很多人在擔心的是我們的台積電會不會真的五五分變半瓶三了今天我的問題都非常直接所以要問專業的昨天記者會"},{"start":391.125,"end":419.924,"text":"鄭麗君提到說這是一個台灣模式他真正的台灣模式包裝的是什麼就是對美要擴大投資嘛對不對所以真正的關鍵點在什麼地方你像日本南韓他們去擴大投資日本多了投資5500億嘛南韓多少3500億對不對所以他們得到了什麼他們把本來關稅是20%降到了15%所以現在有兩個很大的問題了台灣製造真正的關鍵是什麼是兩個第一個"},{"start":422.26,"end":437.376,"text":"請問到底台灣製造我們要投資美國擴大投資多少錢就是你這個產業聚落到底要從台灣搬多少錢去這是第一個題目第二個也很重要有因為這樣子我們的關稅會降下來嗎這個題目院長還是"},{"start":442.889,"end":469.434,"text":"你剛才提到會不會有五五分剛才秀出來政府院長已經講說我們不會同意政府院長也講所謂的五五分我們不會同意昨天政府院長已經有這樣的回答了五五分不會同意要怎麼做等一下我會問你我現在問你的是你們現在的台灣模式就是對美擴大投資那現在到底要投資多少錢"},{"start":471.546,"end":498.966,"text":"所有的投資基本上都是企業界他們在做規劃企業支持去嘛 對不對我們要做信用保證嘛 對不對我們從旁協助嘛金融上的支持是一部分其他的還有行政上的協助其他的協助現在日本跟南海有提到某部分是民間去啦我現在問你到底我們要擴大投資不管是政府或民間到底要多少錢去我們產業的節奏還是立足台灣佈局全球立足台灣還是要先嘛"},{"start":500.527,"end":521.204,"text":"像日本就投資了5500億嘛他本來兩邊在談的時候日本說要投資4000億嘛對不對川普把他大筆一揮說你要提高5500億本來利潤是平分他說我們美國要再90%嘛我現在就問你人家都那麼具體你現在提出台灣模式人家有日本模式 南韓模式嘛你的投資金額是多少啦"},{"start":521.824,"end":544.603,"text":"我們跟他不一樣 他是拿一筆錢出來但是他們還有爭議我們不是 我們是協助廠商對外全球佈局所以他主動權是在廠商所以廠商有需求我們才會提出支持他們不一樣所以你有精算過就像日本跟南韓這樣我們到底有多少的企業或者是政府要進去的錢是多少"},{"start":545.203,"end":558.174,"text":"你總要有一個金額啊現在我們說台灣台灣現在大概是全世界現在在談高關稅談判談到目前沒有那個數目是出現的對不對我剛講的很具體嘛日本有 美國有 印度有歐盟有 歐盟4500億嘛"},{"start":560.302,"end":587.72,"text":"那你現在提出台灣模式你真正的現在很多專家寫者在問這個問題啊你到底要去擴這個就是擴大投資對不對到底要投資多少錢你們沒有精算過嗎你們昨天已經提出來了去跟美國談過了應該知道要投資多少錢吧因為我們有盤點過廠商的意願但是這廠商的意願可能要有所以盤點過你要跟美國談的時候你提出來是我們可能擴大投資多少錢因為這個牽扯到你投資多少錢你能夠才能夠把你的關稅降下來不是嗎"},{"start":588.902,"end":609.836,"text":"你到現在沒有精算過這個啊你當初去跟美國談怎麼談的沒有嗎 還是你不用跟我講不用跟你講嗎我們當然有反應現在廠商他的意願上的表達是如何這個是有表達給美方部長 所以搞不清楚 你們沒有精算過這個投資金額是多大扣到投資是多大嗎"},{"start":610.777,"end":636.146,"text":"你是不願意講還是沒有 正常狀況下不應該沒有嘛很多專家寫者都在質疑說全世界金額都出現了台灣到現在沒有 欸 昨天有一個台灣模式講出來了你是要趕快欺騙全台灣的民眾還是你不願意講還是沒有精算你跟美國談的時候你給他數目是多少啦我沒有參與談判 所以實際上談判的過程我並不是非常了解那這樣好不好 部長跟你講 你們回去要跟"},{"start":637.9,"end":657.905,"text":"這個數目要早一點跟民眾講第二個更重要了昨天副院長有提到有進展希望把關稅可以降下來我們現在有期待因為我們提出了台灣模式了過幾天你們可能會跟大家很明確的講到底因為這樣努力我們的關稅可以降到多少有降的趨勢出來嗎"},{"start":660.678,"end":680.396,"text":"跟委員報告國際談判的習慣就是在到最後的總結結論出來之前我們不宜說出現在雙方談判的條件你剛所說的對等關稅什麼是合理的對等關稅以及雙方在投資在採購上面有沒有做過一些什麼承諾我只能跟你講"},{"start":681.196,"end":704.896,"text":"對等關稅我們在爭取合理的對等關稅但是對於投資跟採購目前我們有提出一些想法但是還沒有達到最後承諾的這個階段所以我們不便在這裡說而且投資的部分是廠商去投資政府沒有立場說要廠商投多少後來政府你一定要跟南南跟日本跟印度一樣你一個數目字然後現在最重要的 院長"},{"start":705.777,"end":719.367,"text":"我們的效率沒有那麼差啦也沒有那麼樣的一個黑箱啦全世界你看美國那個日本跟南海現在不繼續在談嗎南海現在美國川普突然講喔你這3500億不是慢慢來喔他叫他要"},{"start":720.233,"end":743.504,"text":"要現金白銀啊他說你現在馬上來啊結果現在不就出來講了我外匯存底才4100億你叫我馬上拿3500出來我就重演97年的金融風暴啊人家都是透明的嘛就在談的過程裡面有些東西是要具體的我現在跟你講的就是說該跟人民講的第一個你效率不能這麼差談這麼久沒談下來第二個你該跟人民講的剛我光是我剛講的第一個"},{"start":744.184,"end":761.847,"text":"要投資金的事 第二個也很重要我問副總 這個很重要很多人很關心委員你這個就清楚了關於外媒的報導日本韓國跟美國談好的過程結論出來之後他們現在都有一點點不同的意志表達出來所以我是覺得"},{"start":762.988,"end":776.94,"text":"談得快不如談得好我們好好的談談到最有利我國的產業國家的利益最有利我國的人民這個部分我們好好的談我們拖太久了啦現在已經出現多少無薪假"},{"start":778.479,"end":801.941,"text":"有些企業現在都在上四天班上 變成休三了有些是倒閉了那個趨勢現在進行是 我們是20加N你如果說你現在是像日本跟南韓已經降到15%我們現在比別人高 結果還是談不下來人民黨現在更重要 就是你現在部長要回答這個事情現在台灣模式到底不是就金額的問題了"},{"start":803.376,"end":817.467,"text":"有多少的企業要過去有多少的工作機會多少的人才會流到美國去造成的產力外移 你有計算過嗎你在找企業講對不對有沒有算過我們會減少多少的工作機會就業機會"},{"start":819.412,"end":846.952,"text":"包委員我剛才還是提到立足台灣佈局全球立足台灣是根本所以沒有所謂的外移這是力量的延伸他沒有因為說大家寫者最近這一個月特別從昨天開始有多少人你們看看報導好不好沒有因為說你一個產業美國一個產業園區台灣怎麼當然是資金的資金會過去人才會過去嘛所以說你要趕快精算出來嘛你本來就應該有來更重要來我們看一下來"},{"start":848.609,"end":876.48,"text":"很多專家寫者昨天去做了一個對比看鄭義新開了記者會完之後大家看看兩邊的這個你們一直講說我們沒有討論也不會答應美國的商務部長說一定要五五分我們提出了四個重點你有沒有發現四個重點不能說很像只能說一模一樣你的右邊的這四個要點"},{"start":878.267,"end":902.389,"text":"幾乎都是達成你本來不要的盧特尼克美國商業部長要的一共啥希望在川普結束任期前將他們今天的支持力要提升到40%投資金額要超過5000億並且要涵蓋從設計到封裝的完整供應鏈下面更重要一共啥唯有把整條供應鏈帶回去美國"},{"start":903.47,"end":929.564,"text":"才能夠達成讓台灣參與喔而且你要同意參與供應鏈這就是川普政府 川普的魔力川普的魔力讓你們擇福了嗎你看你右邊的四點 來 你看這樣我指的是企業要去喔 你們去幫他整合完第二個 你還做金融的信保機制去支持他的企業投資 所以我剛問你嘛你到底要去信保多少錢要去多少錢 這是不是他講的這個五千億嗎"},{"start":931.959,"end":949.061,"text":"日本5500億 南韓3500億我們這個信保到底要承諾多少錢這筆錢要不要的回來第三個從科學研究的經驗打造美國的巨肉這不都是幫他完成嗎所以我明確的要求不要只有嘴巴講說我不討論也不答應"},{"start":972.333,"end":974.234,"text":"好 謝謝張祺凱委員資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部委首長貝許昀 謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":576,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時43分）謝謝韓院長。請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員早。"],["張委員啓楷：卓院長早安。今天大家最關心的就是普發現金1萬元，你剛才也特別強調要儘快，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["張委員啓楷：事實上國民黨跟民眾黨的提案是希望能在10月底開始發放，這在原來通過的三讀條文是有的，可是一波三折，後來你又提了修正案。今天能不能從你嘴巴很清楚地跟全民講，可以在10月底開始發放？第一個，今天付委之後，下個禮拜議程已經排好了，即財政跟經濟聯席會在下禮拜三、四召開，最晚禮拜四就會送回院會。照這個時程，應該在10月14日，最晚10月17日可以在立法院完成三讀。可是現在有一個關卡可能會卡住，因為你新的條文裡面說要特別預算公告完一個月內開始發放，對不對？這裡面有彈性了，所以你今天能不能說清楚？因為立法院已經快馬加鞭了，委員會快，下個禮拜的院會應該也會很快。所以你今天能不能承諾，如果一切順利，最晚、最晚在10月底讓普發現金1萬塊入帳，讓大家都可以領得到？"],["卓院長榮泰：最重要的原則是：立法院程序快，行政院發放得就會快，所以大家都必須快跟快。但是一切也要讓整個準備作業能夠翔實完整，因為這個要發放2,350萬人以上的發放作業是相當大的，雖然我們有112年那個6,000元的發放平臺當作基礎，我們現在正在把它進行優化，而且今年跟過去比較不一樣的是我們要防範很多的詐騙行為，你看，前一段時間好多詐騙已經發生了……"],["張委員啓楷：院長，時間……"],["卓院長榮泰：一旦我們通過之後，那個可能會更多，所以我們要針對詐騙的部分，要讓它做到資安更安全的狀態。"],["張委員啓楷：對、對、對。立法院的流程剛剛我已經跟大家報告了，已經快馬加鞭，最晚在10月17號應該可以三讀通過，接下來反而是你這邊了，你剛剛講這整個作業，你現在應該開始要測試了啊，現在ATM櫃員機的內容是不是有變更？當初蘇貞昌發6,000元的時候，那一套系統現在是可以繼續用的嘛，對不對？可是領6,000元跟1萬元，你完成變更了沒有？第二個，你開始測試了沒有？這個現在要趕快做，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：這已經在準備、在做了。"],["張委員啓楷：要趕快做，這個要先做。","第二個是我剛剛講的，你的條文裡面把我們10月底的這個期限修掉了，現在你就要儘快，好不好？往10月底可以做的方向，你自己要趕快做喔，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：審查的程序……"],["張委員啓楷：你不要弄到後來立法院過了，結果因為你的流程延誤了，搞到11月才發放，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：大院審查的程序快，我們就會加快，但是如果是10月17號，到月底只有13天，中間還有連假，我們希望能夠更充分的準備……"],["張委員啓楷：那你現在就趕快做啊！包括ATM櫃員機，還有整個測試……"],["卓院長榮泰：會的、會的，委員不用急，我們會很快的做、很快的做。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！這個都是現在可以做的嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，這個請部長來說明一下現在的程序。"],["張委員啓楷：部長在點頭，對，趕快做。部長，我強調一下，老實講為什麼延誤到現在才討論這個議題？院長啊，你大概是第一個也是唯一一個發錢給人家還被人家罵的院長，就是一開始你提什麼違憲，後來又有排富，弄到後來去加了一個什麼不要領的選項，對不對？你看連周玉蔻都罵……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有，在討論而已。"],["張委員啓楷：周玉蔻罵什麼？罵「蠢到無極限」……"],["卓院長榮泰：那個沒有加，那個只是研議而已，並沒有加在現在整個五個選項當中，沒有加。"],["張委員啓楷：對啊，我說一波三折……"],["卓院長榮泰：當初民間團體來要求的時候，我們是去做研議，研議的結果認為對資安的保障還要必須更周延，所以並沒有加，那個完全沒有延誤。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告，這個預算案我們是9月11號就送到大院了，今天是10月3號啊，我們並沒有延誤太多，我9月11號……"],["張委員啓楷：對，你送過來後我們都快馬加鞭在做，我現在是提醒你，之前……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以必須要清楚……"],["張委員啓楷：之前就是因為你在那邊研議什麼不要領的選項……"],["卓院長榮泰：哪有研議？"],["張委員啓楷：如果要設不要領的那個選項……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有那個選項。"],["張委員啓楷：為什麼連吳思瑤委員都說你多此一舉……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員、委員，我們沒有那個選項喔！"],["張委員啓楷：連周玉蔻都說你是蠢到無下限！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有那個選項喔，你不要錯誤資訊。"],["張委員啓楷：如果不領，錢本來就會回到國庫嘛，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有那個選項喔！我跟委員報告，9月11號……"],["張委員啓楷：你現在送了沒有嘛？當初你說要研議嘛，對不對？所以你才被罵嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：9月11號預算案我們就送來了啊，為什麼9月11號要到今天10月3號呢？"],["張委員啓楷：對啦，我現在是跟你說之前，你一開始講到違憲，後來說要排富……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有啦！"],["張委員啓楷：後來又說到要設這個選項，你後來都改了啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我們……"],["張委員啓楷：都改了就好！要跟時間賽跑……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們沒有改。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，沒有改，委員，你完全不了解狀況，我們沒有改。"],["張委員啓楷：我不了解狀況？我剛剛講的這三個不都是你……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有。"],["張委員啓楷：欸，你翻車翻了三次，我把這個真相跟你講，叫你檢討，你現在又說我不了解，不要硬拗，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我9月11號就送來了，我的特別預算……"],["張委員啓楷：我再提醒你更重要的，不要再橫生枝節了，10月底趕快發放。"],["卓院長榮泰：我9月11號就送來了，到今天已經快一個月了！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我們前置作業都在進行當中，而且積極的在辦理。"],["張委員啓楷：已經測試了嘛，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，測試了。"],["張委員啓楷：還改了ATM那個……"],["莊部長翠雲：ATM這一次還增加了家數，增加一千多家的ATM機臺，會積極辦理。"],["張委員啓楷：OK。接下來我們要談專業的，請經濟部長一起上來。"],["主席：麻煩請經濟部長備詢。"],["張委員啓楷：時間停一下。"],["主席：時間暫停。"],["張委員啓楷：財政部長要在，我們要談專業的，財政部長跟經濟部長一起上來。"],["主席：麻煩再請財政部長備詢。"],["龔部長明鑫：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：這幾天，從美國商務部長講到臺美晶片五五分之後，包括昨天鄭麗君副院長開了記者會講臺灣製造，很多人在擔心的是我們的台積電會不會真的五五分變半屏山了。今天我的問題都非常直接，所以要問專業的人！","昨天記者會鄭麗君提到這個是一個臺灣模式，真正的臺灣模式包裝的是什麼？就是對美要擴大投資嘛，對不對？所以真正的關鍵點在什麼地方？像日本、南韓他們去擴大投資，日本多投資5,500億、南韓多3,500億，對不對？所以他們得到了什麼？他們把本來的關稅從20%降到了15%，所以現在有兩個很大的問題了，臺灣製造真正的關鍵是什麼？有兩個，第一個，請問到底臺灣製造，我們要投資美國、擴大投資多少錢？就是你這個產業聚落到底要從臺灣搬多少錢去？這是第一個題目。第二個也很重要，因為這樣子我們的關稅會降下來嗎？這個題目，院長還是部長……"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長答復。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，您剛才提到的就是會不會有五五分，剛才您也有秀出來鄭副院長已經講說我們不會同意這樣……"],["張委員啓楷：不好意思，請大聲一點，聽不清楚。"],["龔部長明鑫：就是鄭副院長也有講，就是這個所謂的五五分我們不會同意嘛，這個昨天鄭副院長已經有這樣的回答了。"],["張委員啓楷：五五分不會同意要怎麼做到，等一下我會問你，我現在問你的是，你們現在的臺灣模式就是對美擴大投資嘛，對不對？現在到底要投資多少錢？"],["龔部長明鑫：所有的投資基本上都是企業界他們在做規劃……"],["張委員啓楷：企業自主去嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：然後我們從旁協助。"],["張委員啓楷：然後我們要做信用保證嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們從旁協助嘛，金融上的支持是一部分，其他還有行政上的協助及其他的協助，因為我們……"],["張委員啓楷：對啦，現在日本跟南韓也提到某部分是民間去啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：對，我們產業的……"],["張委員啓楷：我現在問你，到底我們的這個擴大投資，不管是政府或民間，到底要多少錢去？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們產業的節奏還是立足臺灣布局全球，立足臺灣還是要先嘛……"],["張委員啓楷：沒有啦！多少？很具體的。像日本就投資了5,500億嘛……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們跟它不一樣。"],["張委員啓楷：本來兩邊在談的時候，日本說要投資4,000億嘛，對不對？川普大筆一揮說要提高到5,500億啊，本來利潤是平分，他說美國要占90%嘛，我現在就問你，人家都那麼具體，你現在提出的臺灣模式，人家有日本模式、南韓模式嘛，你的投資金額是多少啦？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們跟它不一樣，它是拿一筆錢出來，但是他們還有爭議，我們不是，我們是協助廠商對外全球布局，所以主動權是在廠商，廠商有需求，我們才會提出支持，但他們不一樣，他們好像是承諾拿一筆錢出來……"],["張委員啓楷：所以你有精算過嗎？就像日本跟南韓這樣，我們到底有多少的企業，或者是政府要進去的錢是多少？你總要有一個金額啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：的確，我們有……"],["張委員啓楷：我們說臺灣，臺灣現在大概是全世界談高關稅談到目前沒有那個數目字出現的，對不對？我剛剛講得很具體嘛，日本有、美國有、印度有、歐盟有，對不對？歐盟是4,500億嘛，那你現在提出臺灣模式，你真正的……現在很多專家學者都在問這個問題啊，這個就是擴大投資，對不對？那麼到底要投資多少錢？你們沒有精算過嗎？你們昨天已經提出來了，也去跟美國談過了，應該知道要投資多少錢吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，我們有盤點過廠商的意願，但是廠商的意願可能還要由廠商來對外說明。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以盤點過，你要跟美國談的時候，你提出來的是我們可能擴大投資多少錢，因為這個牽扯到你投資多少錢才能夠把你的關稅降下來，不是嗎？你到現在沒有精算過這個啊？你當初去跟美國談是怎麼談的？沒有嗎？還是你不願意跟我講，不願意跟人民講嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們當然有反映，我們當然有反映現在廠商的意願上表達是如何，這個是有表達給美方，但是實際上說實在的……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，所以到目前為止，你們沒有精算過這個投資金額是多大，是嗎？擴大投資是多大？你是不願意講還是沒有？正常狀況下不應該沒有嘛，很多專家學者都在質疑說全世界金額都出現了，臺灣到現在沒有，昨天有一個臺灣模式講出來了，你是要欺騙全臺灣的民眾還是你不願意講？還是沒有精算？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我剛才提到過……"],["張委員啓楷：你跟美國談的時候，你給它的數目字是多少啦？"],["龔部長明鑫：我沒有參與談判，所以實際上談判的過程我並不是非常了解。"],["張委員啓楷：這樣好不好，部長跟院長，你們回去要跟……這個數目字要早一點跟民眾講啦，好不好？","第二個更重要，昨天副院長有提到嘛，有進展，希望可以把這個關稅降下來，對不對？我們現在有期待，因為我們提出臺灣模式了嘛，金額的部分，過幾天你們可能會跟大家很明確的講……"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對……"],["張委員啓楷：到底因為這樣的努力，我們的關稅可以降到多少，有這樣的趨勢出來嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，國際談判的習性、習慣，就是在未到最後的總結結論出來之前，我們不宜說出現在雙方談判的條件。您剛剛所說的對等關稅，什麼是合理的對等關稅，以及雙方在投資、在採購上面有沒有做過一些什麼承諾，我只能跟你講，對等關稅，我們在爭取合理的對等關稅，但是對於投資跟採購，目前我們有提出一些想法，但是還沒有達到最後承諾的這個階段，所以我們不便在這裡說，而且投資的部分是廠商去投資，政府沒有立場要廠商投多少……"],["張委員啓楷：對啦，不管是整合或怎樣，政府一定要跟南韓、跟日本、跟印度一樣，要有一個數目字啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["張委員啓楷：然後現在更重要的，院長，我們的效率沒有那麼差啦，也沒有那樣的黑箱啦！全世界，你看美國跟日本、南韓現在不是繼續在談嗎？以南韓來說，現在美國川普突然講這3,500億不是慢慢來，他叫南韓要拿出現金白銀啊，他說現在馬上要拿來，結果南韓現在不就出來講了，我外匯存底才4,100億，你叫我馬上拿3,500億出來，我就重演97年的金融風暴啊！人家都是透明的嘛！就是在談的過程裡面，有些東西是要具體的。我現在跟你講的就是該跟人民講的，第一個，你效率不能這麼差，談這麼久沒談下來。第二個，你該跟人民講的，如我剛剛講的，第一個，要投資的金額是多少？第二個也很重要，我問部長一下……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以委員……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我先問你，這個很重要，很多人很關心，這種臺灣模式……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，這個你就清楚了，關於外媒的報導，日本、韓國跟美國談好的過程結論出來之後，他們現在都有一點點不同的意志表達出來，所以我覺得談得快不如談得好。我們好好地談，談到最有利於我國的產業、國家的利益，最有利於我國的人民，這個部分我們好好地談，不一定要比快……"],["張委員啓楷：我們拖太久了啦！現在已經出現多少無薪假？有些企業現在一週都變成上四天班休三了呢！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經到了……跟委員報告，已經到了最後關鍵的時候了。"],["張委員啓楷：有些是倒閉了呢！川普是現在進行式，我們是20加N，如果你現在是像日本跟南韓已經降到15%，我們現在比別人高，結果還是談不下來……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以……"],["張委員啓楷：現在更重要的，對，就是現在部長你要回答這個事情……"],["龔部長明鑫：是，所以我們提出了支援產業政策……"],["張委員啓楷：現在臺灣模式到底……不是只有金額的問題了，到底有多少企業要過去？有多少的工作機會、多少的人才會流到美國去，造成的產業外移，你有精算過嗎？你一直在找企業講對不對？有沒有算過我們會減少多少的工作機會、就業機會？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我剛才就提到「立足臺灣、布局全球」，立足臺灣是根本，所以沒有所謂的外移，這是力量的延伸，並沒有因為說……"],["張委員啓楷：專家學者最近這一個月，特別從昨天開始有多少人，你們看看報導，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，沒有因為說我們對外投資所以我們自己減少投資，沒有的。"],["張委員啓楷：你一個產業，臺灣要到美國設一個產業園區，當然是資金會過去，人才會過去嘛，所以說你要趕快精算出來嘛，你本來就應該有。","來，還有更重要的，我們看一下，很多專家學者昨天去做了一個對比，看完鄭麗君開的記者會之後。大家看看這個圖的兩邊，你們一直講說我們沒有討論，也不會答應；美國的商務部長說，一定要五五分。我們提出了四個重點，你沒有發現四個重點，不能說很像耶，只能說一模一樣耶。右邊你提出的這四個要點，幾乎都是達成你本來說不要的而美國商務部長盧特尼克要的。他說什麼？希望在川普結束任期前，將他們晶片的自製率要提升到40%，投資金額要超過5,000億，並且要涵蓋從設計到封裝的完整供應鏈。下面這個更重要，他說什麼？唯有把整條供應鏈帶回去美國才能夠達成讓臺灣參與，而且你要同意參與供應鏈，這就是川普政府、川普的魔力，川普的魔力讓你們折服了嗎？你看你右邊的四點，來，你看看，不只是企業要去，你們去幫他整合完。第二個，你還要透過金融信保機制去支持企業的投資。所以我剛剛問你，你到底要去信保多少錢？要去多少錢，這個是不是他講的這個5,000億嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我還是……"],["張委員啓楷：日本5,500億，南韓3,500億，我們的信保到底要承諾多少錢？這筆錢要不要得回來？第三個，從科學園區的經驗打造美國的聚落，這不都是幫他完成嗎？所以我明確的要求，不要只有嘴巴講說我不討論也不答應，你的實際作為是不是就是把臺灣的護國神山搬到美國去？把我們的整個晶片產業鏈搬過去？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！"],["張委員啓楷：要很明確的跟民眾解釋清楚，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！立足臺灣，立足臺灣是第一，立足臺灣第一，對，立足臺灣第一。"],["張委員啓楷：要真正做到根留臺灣，不要用嘴巴講，結果專家學者已經對比出來了，你是把我們的晶片產業鏈搬到美國去。"],["龔部長明鑫：不會啦！台積電一定是立足臺灣。"],["張委員啓楷：好啦！一起愛臺灣，讓護國神山根留臺灣。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們會做，我們不會用嘴巴講。"],["主席：好，謝謝張啓楷委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","卓院長，請喝水。好，謝謝。","報告院會，我們在議場二樓旁聽的是來自臺北市大安區的好朋友，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來請吳思瑤委員質詢，楊瓊瓔委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}