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我們現在進行國事論壇每位委員發言三分鐘首先請麥議貞委員發言徐議貞委員請準備"},{"start":1771.601,"end":1793.562,"text":"主席各位親愛的家人大家早今天我第4次替百萬新住民一家庭發聲卓榮泰院長新住民基本法到底什麼時候公布實施日期在星期二總質詢上你親口承認行政院日"},{"start":1794.723,"end":1801.467,"text":"實習日期是行政院的決定既然你清楚是行政院的職責為什麼到現在還不公佈連賴總統在113年8月12日也正式公佈了結果行政院卻一拖再拖讓法律形同鴿子"},{"start":1816.777,"end":1840.451,"text":"讓中央與地方無法推動相關業務這不只是行政帶動這是藐視國家的制度是無法無天的行為新住民等的不是會找藉口推脫責任的政府是一個願意負責勇於行動的政府"},{"start":1841.016,"end":1845.537,"text":"行政院繼續以言語中來敷衍就是在告訴人民法律可以不執行承諾可以不酸素這樣的態度讓所有相信政府的人民更心寒新住民不是要特權只是要一個公平的機會他們在台灣努力奮鬥養家納稅照顧長輩"},{"start":1868.604,"end":1870.987,"text":"為台灣付出一樣的貢獻卻得不到一樣的尊重別再讓依法行政變成口號別等到選舉時再選到新住民選後當外人"},{"start":1885.872,"end":1898.981,"text":"114年11月11日邀請所有關心新住民少子化缺工與經濟發展的朋友下午一點到立法院讓政府聽見人民的聲音"},{"start":1899.461,"end":1920.519,"text":"这不是新住民的事是台湾的未来是关于公平尊重与信任是找回国家自由民主的权利新住民不是四等公民他们是让台湾更强更温暖的力量制度继续带动就是制度化的歧视"},{"start":1921.059,"end":1940.847,"text":"行政院立即公告14日起成立新住民發展署讓新住民基本法真正上路讓世界看見一個說到做到的政府尊重多元友善的台灣新住民加油台灣加油謝謝大家"},{"start":1945.893,"end":1950.403,"text":"謝謝麥玉珍委員發言接下來我們請徐玉珍委員發言侯孟楷委員請準備"},{"start":1970.831,"end":1994.097,"text":"主席 幾個同仁大家早台灣丟臉丟到國際竟然淪為懲治跨國詐騙集團的洗錢樂園重創國家的名聲這一切都是民進黨政府怠惰失職的直接結果美國對英國以對太子集團祭出史無前例的大規模制裁與起訴清楚地揭露該集團透過空殼公司加密貨幣"},{"start":1995.738,"end":2018.453,"text":"與複雜的資金網路大肆的詐騙洗錢而令人憤怒的是台灣不是在犯罪就已經啟動調查而是在美方揭露制裁後才倉皇的對付有關單位一直到減掉大規模搜索扣押資產案情才有所突破但司法卻對相關的人士的交保金額竟然只有3萬到70萬"},{"start":2020.734,"end":2032.99,"text":"面對45億元的不法金流豪宅名車北檢卻只開出象徵性的交保金額難怪城市的特助15萬交保時還對著鏡頭笑彷彿在笑台灣的司法"},{"start":2036.341,"end":2051.671,"text":"這樣的方式簡直把台灣的司法公信力踐踏在地這樣的荒謬換來的只有國際的恥笑民進黨政府這種被美國點名才行動的消極態度赤裸裸地暴露在台灣的跨國犯罪面前的無力與被動"},{"start":2052.608,"end":2079.004,"text":"如果没有美英的通报这些疑似人头公司是否会继续的横行可疑资金流是否会持续的在台湾穿梭那些豪宅名车就能继续享受人民的安全国家的金融秩序在民进党的治理下竟然如此的脆弱这是羞辱更是危机城市诈骗集团在台设立十数家企业坐拥101多层豪宅的招待所"},{"start":2079.784,"end":2097.704,"text":"轨迹至少可以回溯到九年前刚好是蔡英文上台的时候这些年来他们在台湾予取予求政府洗钱防治制度等于形同虚设司法又无力查起诈骗集团就将台湾当成体管机避风港"},{"start":2098.385,"end":2115.194,"text":"民進黨政府不能只會對弱勢對政敵逞凶斗狠卻在關乎國家安全與人民安全時又變得軟弱無能若面對國際犯罪組織的違法行徑選擇裝傻那這種政府跟詐騙集團又有什麼差別呢"},{"start":2116.255,"end":2129.803,"text":"本席具體的要求面對跨國犯罪政府應該展現的是主動 迅速 透明而不是拖延 怕事 裝睡立即成立跨部會的專責小組積極的查緝不法 徹查涉案銀行對違規金融從業者依法嚴懲並公開處分"},{"start":2139.149,"end":2160.142,"text":"強化外橋與外資公司設立的實質審查加速審判的進程用公權力來守護人民的財產安全讓犯罪者無所遁形謝謝徐宇貞委員的發言接下來我們請洪孟凱委員發言林倩琪委員請準備謝謝"},{"start":2177.045,"end":2194.617,"text":"主席各位立院同仁大家早謀定而後動民進黨政府請不要把台灣社會當成是實驗室或是把任何不成熟的政策推出來除了只有擾亂民心以外真的無助於事"},{"start":2195.834,"end":2221.044,"text":"昨天我們看到有媒體報導頭版頭說為了要幫健保開源所以衛福部近日受訪要把相關的健保費用再去做一個增加結果這樣的一個政策照理講應該是已經嚴厲許久並且有完整的配套措施包括你要怎麼做你的對象是什麼你收取多少錢以及最重要是你收取之後你的成效要做什麼"},{"start":2221.764,"end":2245.46,"text":"但沒想到短短不到七個小時因為網路的炸鍋以及溝通的不順利造成行政院馬上直轉直下說要再延議再轉彎那我們不就要問如果說如此草率的決策過程不就代表了當初根本沒有跨部會的討論金管會還出來講是說他根本不知道看報紙才知道拜託行行好"},{"start":2246.328,"end":2270.537,"text":"民進黨政府你上任在過去到現在這快兩年的時間了政策如此的草率可以嗎尤其是影響480萬的民眾的這樣子的一個健保制度你這樣子來做7個小時政府下架詐騙集團廣告都沒有那麼快結果你的政策居然如此草率那什麼才應該要加速做"},{"start":2271.4,"end":2292.837,"text":"打擊詐騙才應該加速做剛剛我們敘徵委員以及很多委員同仁都有關心太子集團犯罪集團可以在台灣如此囂張跋扈幾年長達七年八年之久買豪車買民宅甚至有高達多麼綿密的這樣子一個犯罪制度"},{"start":2294.287,"end":2308.894,"text":"結果雖然政府是由美國政府通知才知道我們的金管會 我們的調查局我們的相關執法單位難道沒有眼線能夠察覺這樣子的一個奇怪的異常現象嗎而新加坡政府在這個禮拜"},{"start":2310.074,"end":2325.494,"text":"火速三毒通過了邊形兌付詐騙我們肯定新加坡政府要用嚴刑峻法保障人民財產的決心但我們也要更堅定我們也要追求公平正義在台灣實施的決心"},{"start":2326.115,"end":2346.448,"text":"也因此我們也已經請法務部在總諮詢的時候要求研擬觀察新加坡這未來三個月到半年內他的詐騙數額、詐騙金額、詐騙案件有沒有因為邊協的實施而下降可以當作是我國立法的重要參考依據但更重要我們要拜託"},{"start":2347.569,"end":2370.215,"text":"打詐就是作戰絕對要政府所有跨部會共同一起來這不是一個人的事情讓詐騙集團持續在台灣橫行這是台灣大家共同無法接受的事謝謝謝謝洪孟愷委員的發言接下來我們請登記最後一位林倩琦委員請發言"},{"start":2383.564,"end":2399.363,"text":"院長各位同仁全國民眾還有媒體朋友們大家好依法行政守住底線菸泰防治拒絕倒退今天本席要指出目前我們面臨加勒菸走私與行政管制雙重失靈的問題"},{"start":2400.744,"end":2427.33,"text":"當走私集團能夠在機場內部人員的協助下得逞入境當主管機關在法令人禁止下卻放寬行政規範來讓加勒淹的載具展示打通關社會應該問的是政府究竟在保護誰的利益今年9月桃園地檢署破獲首起的公務門走私案查出行警涉嫌協助走私超過9000條的加勒淹並且收取"},{"start":2428.03,"end":2447.191,"text":"近百万元的汇款这些加热烟都是非法产品未经卫福部的审查却能通关流露市面这不仅是贪赌的个案更是制度性的漏洞当边境茶器失灵黑市走私就成为肥沃的温床当黑市兴盛合法管制就形同虚设"},{"start":2447.972,"end":2460.061,"text":"令人痛心的是另一端的主管机关却在此时开方便门国建署竟然以消费者保护法为由放宽部分许可的加热烟载具展示的限制"},{"start":2461.452,"end":2485.224,"text":"煙害防治法裡面其實明文規定禁止任何形式的煙品及指定煙品元件展示與促銷這是公眾利益為了保護青少年抑制煙品的使用但是國建署如今卻以行政含釋來鬆綁展示的範圍推翻煙害防治法破壞了依法行政與法律保留的原則我們不能一手打擊"},{"start":2486.445,"end":2505.812,"text":"走私一手卻放任行銷若政府一邊宣稱要防制煙品一邊卻讓外商得以光明正大的展示加熱煙載具那麼社會如何信任國家的煙害防制政策如果行政機關可以繞過立法院任意以命令來變更法律效果"},{"start":2506.152,"end":2522.393,"text":"那民主監督又從何而來依據民團觀察今天許多超商櫃台及便利商店內加熱煙載具被放在非常顯眼的位置裡面也沒有警示的圖文國高中生每天經過看著這些包裝精美的產品會產生好奇"},{"start":2523.073,"end":2543.531,"text":"這個展示不僅是單純的資訊提供而是變相的行銷這樣子的環境正在削弱我們針對青少年安全的防護線本席在這邊強調加熱菸不是無害的產品菸害防治法更是為了防治菸害而設立的特別法主管機關不能依法行政"},{"start":2544.732,"end":2567.611,"text":"來守住底線如果開放展示等於違法行政因此本席在這邊提出三點呼籲國建署應該立即撤回放寬展示的行政函式第二點主管機關如果認為現行規範過於嚴苛應該循立法的正規來修法第三點應該加強邊境茶器與市場集合全面追查非法煙的這個加熱煙的流向"},{"start":2574.667,"end":2598.483,"text":"所以我覺得菸煙害的事實 菸煙害的法律是一個很漫漫的規則但是這個法律只是我們自己猜過的法律不夠明顯 其實正正相關協議的事情是實用那讓法律的原則導致的事實 事實上很難理解政府要法防菸不僅是要法防走私 但是是自己要依法行政我們當當都不決定要不要法 事實很高那讓法防制止菸煙害 不再害法"},{"start":2602.171,"end":2607.703,"text":"謝謝林倩琪委員的發言登記國事論壇發言的委員均已經發言完畢現在休息"},{"start":5346.496,"end":5371.467,"text":"報告委員會我們現在開始開會請秘書長報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員70人已足法定人數我們現在進行報告事項請秘書長宣讀第四會期第七次會議議事錄宣讀立法案第十一屆第四會期第七次會議議事錄時間中華民國一百十四年十月三十一日上午九十至下午七時十六分"},{"start":5372.287,"end":5399.316,"text":"11月4日上午9時至下午5時5分地點本院議場出席委員林委員國懲等113人列席官員行政院院長卓榮泰等主席院長韓國瑜副院長江啟臣報告事項第一案宣讀本院第十一屆第四會期第六次會議事錄決定確定第二次七九次二十二三次一三七一三九次一五一案"},{"start":5400.356,"end":5422.39,"text":"均決定交互相關委員會審查處理或交互相關委員會第八二十一二十二案均決定經貿圖與相關提案並案協商第138案為經濟委員會所提出報告案執行四項行政會答案部分一件討論四項第一案決議通過第二案決議交經濟委員會"},{"start":5425.232,"end":5441.846,"text":"是處理相關議案時參考並函送國家發展委員會及經濟部參考第三次五案軍決議交互黨團協商對行政院長施政報告繼續質詢決定下次會議繼續進行經濟組織質詢其他事項"},{"start":5446.601,"end":5456.724,"text":"一百十四年十月三十一日朝委黨團協商結論一件二 貶制會議施政報告事項執行事項對行政院長施政報告繼續執行依黨團共識照國民黨黨團台灣民眾黨黨團提議通過討論事項依黨團共識通過宣讀完畢"},{"start":5471.687,"end":5485.084,"text":"好 謝謝包委員會針對第四會期第七次會議議事錄並沒有委員或黨團提出錯誤或疑惑之處我們現在做以下決定第四會期第七次會議議事錄確定請宣讀第二案"},{"start":5485.629,"end":5503.459,"text":"第二案 本院委員王玉明等16人領據社會救助法部判條文修正草案 程序委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣讀完畢第三案 本院委員蔡依儒等20人領據農民退休處心條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案 程序委員會建交經濟委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":5504.46,"end":5522.734,"text":"第四案 本院委員參與與等十六人聯聚 貪污徹稅條例第四條條文修正草案 程序委員會皆交司法及法制委員會審查 宣讀完畢第五案 本院委員參與與等二十人聯聚 老年農民福利經貼專行條例第四條條文修正草案 程序委員會皆交生育福利基金會審環境經濟內卷三委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":5523.675,"end":5546.159,"text":"第六案 本院委員廖偉祥的16人離聚 《家庭暴力防治法》第31條條文修正常案 程序委員會建交社會福利 或是環境司法及法制 兩委員會審查 宣傳完畢第七案 本院委員林黛華的18人離聚 《水土保持法》第2條條文修正常案 程序委員會建交經濟委員會審查 宣傳完畢第八案 本院委員林黛華的18人離聚 《山坡地野保育利用條例》第2條條文修正常案"},{"start":5546.899,"end":5563.995,"text":"財經委員會監交經濟委員會審查 宣言完畢第九案 北匯委員林太化的十八人離去青年基本法草案財經委員會監交交易及文化委員會審查 宣言完畢報告四項第九案現在有民進黨團提案禁服二讀與相關提案併案協商 請委員會有異異議通過下案"},{"start":5564.366,"end":5587.601,"text":"第十案 本院委員黎丹化的十八案領據《增控防治法》第四條條文修正常案財修委員會建交司法及法治委員會審查 宣讀完畢第十一案 本院委員黎丹化的十八案領據《老年農民福利及貸稅條例》第二條條文修正常案財修委員會建交生物福利及衛生環境經濟內政三委員會審查 宣讀完畢第十二案 本院委員郭育晴等十六案領據《文化資產保存法》的部分條文修正常案"},{"start":5588.061,"end":5591.843,"text":"第十三案第十四案第十五案第十六案"},{"start":5616.337,"end":5638.167,"text":"第十六案 北院委員張雅琳等17人離去自然水法第97條至1條維修正常案陳秀雲會接交經濟委員會審查 宣言為併第十七案 北院委員張雅琳等17人離去電信管理法第72條維修正常案陳秀雲會接交交通委員會審查 宣言為併第十八案 北院委員張雅琳等17人離去香港法第15條及第65條至4條維修正常案"},{"start":5638.727,"end":5653.309,"text":"陳秀雲會見交消動委員會審查 宣布完畢第十九案 本郵員張雅玲的十七人連續出沒法撲尿修正草案陳秀雲會見交消動委員會審查 宣布完畢第20案 本郵員張雅玲的十八人連續勞動欠准法第四十二條條文修正草案"},{"start":5653.889,"end":5682.216,"text":"陳修緣會建交社會福利及婚姻環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十一案 本幼兒園王洪維等16人離區民法第1223條條文修正常案陳修緣會建交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十二案 本幼兒園林坤城等18人離區國家金融安定基金順勢及管理條例第4條及第5條條文修正常案陳修緣會建交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十三案 本幼兒園武麗華等16人離區貨物稅條例第10條是3條文修正常案陳修緣會建交財政委員"},{"start":5683.376,"end":5686.52,"text":"官員會第二十三案現在有民進黨團體近乎二讀與相關提案並按協商請問願會有異議 異議通過下議案"},{"start":5689.451,"end":5717.106,"text":"第二十四案 本用員吳麗華的16人離去 使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正常案 承受委員會建交 財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第二十五案 本用員吳麗華的16人離去 擔當事態問題728號域 災後復原重建特別條例第四條 第五條集體10條條文修正常案 承受委員會建交 交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢報告四項第二十五案 現在由民進黨團體金富二讀與相關提案並且協商 請問委員會有沒有異議沒有異議 本案金富二讀與相關提案並且協商 下案"},{"start":5717.523,"end":5745.001,"text":"第26案 本郵委員邱若驊的16人凝聚 道路交通管理處罰條例第31條之1條維修正常案 採取委員會監交交通委員會審查 宣言為定第27案 本郵委員邱若驊的16人凝聚 道路交通管理處罰條例第45條條維修正常案 採取委員會監交交通委員會審查 宣言為定第28案 本郵委員邱若驊的18人凝聚 氣象法第21條之1條維修正常案 採取委員會監交交通委員會審查 宣言為定第29案 本郵委員邱若驊的17人凝�"},{"start":5748.363,"end":5765.252,"text":"陳樹榮會見交交通委員會審查第30案本郵務委員邱振華等16人聯聚香港法第15條截列65條之4條維修政策案陳樹榮會見交交通委員會審查第30案本郵務委員林楚英等24人聯聚台灣地區道路地區人民關係條例履修綁條之1條維修政策案"},{"start":5765.692,"end":5768.534,"text":"主委通過審查主委通過審查主委通過審查主委通過審查"},{"start":5786.425,"end":5804.13,"text":"第三十四案 本院委員李竹英的二十三人凝聚 外送員權益保障及外送平台不可立法草案 陳秀榮會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查 宣布一通過下頁第三十五案 本院委員吳曉琳的二十人凝聚 國家平常法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案 陳秀榮會見交司法及法治委員會審查 宣布一通過下頁"},{"start":5804.75,"end":5819.842,"text":"第36案 本郵件04名的23人離聚使用盤照稅法第7條條文修正草案 柴修永會接交財政委員會審查 宣布完畢第37案 本郵件04名的23人離廢止經濟不公義的局組織條例柴修永會接交司法及法制經濟 兩委員會審查 宣布完畢"},{"start":5821.903,"end":5850.167,"text":"第38案 本院委員賴銳龍的17人凝聚財政收支換分法部分條文修正常案財政委員會建交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第39案 本院委員賴銳龍的17人凝聚丹奧斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重新特別條例第4條第5條及第10條條文修正常案財政委員會建交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢法院會第39案由民進黨團體金福爾魯與相關提案並案協商請問院會有異議免議本案金福爾魯與相關提案並案協商 下案"},{"start":5850.58,"end":5876.789,"text":"第四十案 本院委員翁小玲的二十日連續 民法第1223條條維修正常案 陳修緣會監交司法及法律委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十一案 本院委員邱昇勳的二十日連續 自內水法第97條這一條維修正常案 陳修緣會監交經濟委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十二案 本院委員邱昇勳的二十日連續 人工智慧基本法長案 陳修緣會監交教育及文化中等兩委員會審查 宣讀完畢法案約會第四十二案 現在有國民黨團體"},{"start":5878.31,"end":5884.543,"text":"禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商請願會有意免議本案禁服二讀與相關提案並按協商下議案"},{"start":5884.895,"end":5910.456,"text":"第四十三案 本議會委員邱勝勳的二十人聯聚專謀發部份條文修正常案陳修永會兼交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十四案 本議會委員邱勝勳的二十人聯聚西巷法第21條是一條文修正常案陳修永會兼交交通委員會審查 宣讀完畢第四十五案 本議會委員廖偉祥的十六人聯聚貨物稅條例第十二條是三條文修正常案陳修永會兼交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢法院會第四十五案由國民黨團體晉覆二讀與相關提案並按協商請"},{"start":5913.138,"end":5932.693,"text":"願以本案盡附而入 相關提案並按寫上下頁第四十六案 本院委員洪孟凱的二十六人凝聚衛星廣播電視法第六十四條條文修正常案 柴修委員會間交交通委員會審查宣布完畢第四十七案 本院委員洪孟凱的十九人凝聚鐵路法第六十八條十四及第七十二條條文修正常案柴修委員會間交交通委員會審查宣布完畢"},{"start":5933.473,"end":5955.582,"text":"第四十八案本優委員洪孟凱的十八案連續中華民國刑法第185條13條文修正常案財修委員會建交司法及法制委員會審查宣言完畢第四十九案本優委員馬文君的十六案連續使用盤算稅法第五條條文修正常案財修委員會建交財政委員會審查宣言完畢第五十案本優委員羅志強的二十五案連續衛星網部電視法第二十條條文修正常案"},{"start":5955.862,"end":5970.693,"text":"第五十案 由國民黨團體金富二路由國民黨團負責召集協商 請問願會有異第五十一案 由國民黨團體金富二路由國民黨團負責召集協商 請問願會有異第五十一案 由國民黨團體金富二路由國民黨團負責召集協商 請問願會有異第五十一案 由國民黨團體金富二路由國民黨團負責召集協商 請問願會有異"},{"start":5985.168,"end":6007.896,"text":"第五十二案 本院委員陳慶輝等19人鄰居 第十法第五條條文修正常案 程序委員會建交經濟委員會審查 宣言完畢法院委員會第五十二案 由國民黨團體金富二族相關提案並案協商 請委員會有異議 面議本案金富二族相關提案並案協商 下議案第五十三案 本院委員陳慶輝等21人鄰居 人工智慧基本法常案 程序委員會建交教育局文化交通兩委員會審查 宣言完畢"},{"start":6008.53,"end":6019.696,"text":"抱怨會第五十三案由國民黨團體進副二讀 與相關提案併案協商 求院會有異議抱怨會第五十四案由國民黨團體進副二讀 與相關提案併案協商 求院會有異議抱怨會第五十四案由國民黨團體進副二讀 與相關提案併案協商 求院會有異議"},{"start":6033.752,"end":6049.803,"text":"第五十五案 本院委員陳慶慧等十九人凝聚性別平等工作法第三列第23條之一條文草案陳修永會見交生衛福利基金會上環境委員會審查宣言完畢第五十六案 本院委員羅廷偉等十六人凝聚平原地區學校就業發展條例第八條條文修正草案"},{"start":6050.343,"end":6052.787,"text":"財修委員會建交教育及文化委員會審查宣傳完畢"},{"start":6066.307,"end":6089.725,"text":"第五十八案 本院委員羅廷偉等16人離聚 民法 親屬編釋刑法 曾麗麗7條11條文草案 陳修永會監交司法及法治委員會審查 宣言完畢第五十九案 本院委員徐宇貞等24人離聚 公民投票法第23條兩文修正草案 陳修永會監交內政委員會審查 宣言完畢法院會第五十九案 有國民黨團體 金福二族與相關提案並案協商 請院會有異沒有異 本案金福二族與相關提案並案協商 下案"},{"start":6090.686,"end":6106.394,"text":"第60案 本院委員高津素美的16名鄰居 公證院宣誓發明法第26條 無償懲查案 陳秀永會建交 內政委員會審查 宣誓完畢官員會報告事項第60案由高津素美委員提議撤回提案 請問願會有異議免議 本案同意撤回下項"},{"start":6106.943,"end":6125.728,"text":"第六十一案 本院民進黨黨團聯聚 國民年金法部份條文修正常案 財修委員會間交生育福利 弱性環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第六十二案 本院委員會間交生育福利 弱性環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第六十二案 本院委員會間交生育福利 弱性環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢第六十三案 本院委員會間交生育福利 弱性環境委員會審查 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6130.709,"end":6145.198,"text":"第六十四案本用語言翻譯等十六人理據七項法第二十一條之一條文修正常案財修委員會建交交通委員會審查宣言完畢第六十五案本用語言和現存等十八人理據定義法第七十一條之一條文修正常案財修委員會建交經濟委員會審查宣言完畢"},{"start":6146.218,"end":6160.466,"text":"第66案 本院委員何欣淳等18日離聚天壇七十月法第55條之一條維修政策案陳秀雲會監交經濟委員會審查宣讀完畢第67案 本院委員何欣淳等18日離聚自然水法第97條之一條維修政策案陳秀雲會監交經濟委員會審查宣讀完畢"},{"start":6163.007,"end":6187.002,"text":"第六十八案 本院委員和新巡的十八案領據 定性管理法第七十二條 文修正常案 裁修委員會監交 交通委員會審查 宣布完畢第六十九案 本院委員和新巡的十八案領據 七項法例二十條之一條 文修正常案 裁修委員會監交 交通委員會審查 宣布完畢第七十案 本院委員和新巡的十九案領據 商長法第十五條及第六十五條十四條 文修正常案 裁修委員會監交 交通委員會審查 宣布完畢"},{"start":6187.822,"end":6209.301,"text":"第七十一案 本用語言核心選擇十八人離去 存摸法部門條文修正草案 陳樹榮會見交交通委員會審查 宣傳完畢第七十三案 本用語言羅美林等十八人離去 存摸法部門條文修正草案 陳樹榮會見交交通委員會審查 宣傳完畢第七十三案 本用語言羅美林等十七人離去 七項法第二十一條 修正草案 陳樹榮會見交交通委員會審查 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6210.262,"end":6235.775,"text":"第七十四案 本院委員羅美琳等十八日凝聚使用潘昭旭法第五條條文修憲草案 恰恕委員會監交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢第七十五案 本院委員羅美琳等十七日凝聚 貨物稅條例第十二條之三條文修憲草案 恰恕委員會監交財政委員會審查 宣讀完畢報告院會第七十五案由民進黨黨團體 金服二讀與相關提案並案協商 全院會有異議免議本案金服二讀與相關提案並案協商 下議案"},{"start":6236.195,"end":6251.913,"text":"第76案 本月委員賴日龍等18日離聚企業邊控法部分條務修正草案財修委員會監交經濟委員會審查宣傳並第77案 本月委員賴日龍等18日離聚外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案財修委員會監交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查宣傳並"},{"start":6253.214,"end":6268.116,"text":"第七十八案 本院委員劉建國等十七任理據《衛生平台管理機從業人員權益保障法》草案前序委員會間交生衛福利優先環境委員會審查我已通過審議案第七十九案 本院委員劉建國等十七任理據《遭遇管制法》第26條及第28條條文修憲草案"},{"start":6268.476,"end":6270.157,"text":"無異通過下言無異通過下言無異通過下言無異通過下言"},{"start":6293.996,"end":6311.614,"text":"第八十三案 內政委員會修正不動産估價施法事業系則不分條文 陳述委員會見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第八十四案 內政委員會修正規劃我國國籍者及歸國僑民服役辦法陳述委員會見交內政委員會 宣讀完畢報告委員會本案國民黨團體改交審查本案交內政委員會審查 下議案"},{"start":6311.994,"end":6337.147,"text":"第八十五案 客家委員會海外修正 客家委員會主委財政法人設立許可及監督辦法第七條條文 前修委員會建交內政委員會 宣讀完畢第八十六案 經濟部海外修正公用天然氣實驗營業裝塵範本 前修委員會建交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢第八十七案 經濟部海外修正出流管制計畫書與規劃書審核監督及免辦認證論定辦法部分條文 前修委員會建交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6337.987,"end":6359.782,"text":"第八十八案 經濟木海維修正先驅化水瓶工業原料試種類及生貿檢查辦法第三條條文陳修永會見交經濟委員會宣讀文件第八十九案 經濟木海維修正出流管制計劃書與規劃書整合基準及洪峰流量計算方法第十四點及第十五點規定陳修永會見交經濟委員會宣讀文件第九十案 經濟木海維修正溫熱型飲水供應機"},{"start":6360.743,"end":6362.745,"text":"國民黨團針對本案提出改交審查本案交經濟委員會審查"},{"start":6383.854,"end":6407.136,"text":"第九 申案 經濟部海外修正經濟部產業園區管理局臺北分局編制表等實相編制表 並自114年8月1日生效陳修援會監交司法及法治經濟兩委員會 宣讀完畢第九 三案 農業部海外修正農業停產災害救助辦法部分條文陳修援會監交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢第九 四案 農業部海外修正英辦理輸入查驗具私料或私料添加物陳修援會監交經濟委員會 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6408.197,"end":6432.027,"text":"第九十五案 農業部海維修正停止至發生非洲豬瘟症國家地區以郵遞寄送輸入豬肉產品第二點規定 承受委員會建交監禁委員會 宣傳完畢第九十六案 農業部海維修正農田灌溉排水管理辦法第二條基地 十六條條文承受委員會建交監禁委員會 宣傳完畢第九十七案 農業部海維修正水土保持進化整合監督辦法第三條基地 十九條條文承受委員會建交監禁委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6433.027,"end":6459.566,"text":"第九十八案 農業部考慮修正《中華民國輸入植物或植物產品檢疫規定》以有條件輸入植物或植物產品之檢疫條件第一點第四項規定及其附件波蘭城藍莓鮮果食輸入檢疫條件財修委員會簽交經濟委員會宣管並第九十九案 農業部還送公告示中華民國114年10月22日起全面禁止搬運廚餘動物性廢紮 畜牲土產 下繳料資 豬隻 飼養場所及不得作為飼料或飼料添加物使用"},{"start":6460.306,"end":6464.449,"text":"第一版案第一版案第一版案第一版案第一版案"},{"start":6489.083,"end":6504.409,"text":"農業部函綜公告因應非洲竹瘟緊急防疫措施 程序委員會建交經濟委員會宣讀完畢第一欄1032 農業部函綜修正農業部農村發展及水土保存數台北分屬編制表等四項編制表程序委員會建交司法及法術經濟的兩委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6506.109,"end":6529.364,"text":"第104案 金融監督管理委員會 韓宋 期貨顧問事業管理規則第25條 證券商經營期貨交易輔助業務管理規則第28條條文看護表及條文對照表看護表 程序委員會 建交財政委員會 宣布完畢第105案 教育部 韓文修正 國立海洋科技博物館 規範商品標準第3條 副表1至副表2 程序委員會 建交教育及文化委員會 宣布完畢"},{"start":6530.225,"end":6543.416,"text":"第106案 吳浩默喊為民間參與文化設施監管營運辦法並修正第二條 第三條及第四條納溫懲修委員會兼交教育及文化委員會宣讀完畢第107案 吳浩默喊為民間參與文化設施監管營運辦法並修正第二條 第三條及第四條納溫懲修委員會兼交教育及文化委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6551.863,"end":6566.389,"text":"第108案 交通部航位採用國際海事組織所屬海洋環境保護委員會所採納至2004年船舶壓艙水集成基因物管理國際公約後續修正案增訂壓艙水管理公約電子紀錄不申明程序委員會見交交通委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6567.93,"end":6585.943,"text":"第一零九案 交通管理修正大眾數工具 無障礙設施設置辦法部分條文 裁刑委員會兼交交通委員會 宣讀完畢第一零零案 交通管送檢疫 郵政檢疫人受保險監管理辦法第35條 條文及條文對照表 控告表 裁刑委員會兼交交通裁判 聯合委員會 宣讀完畢第一零零案 交通管送檢疫 郵政檢疫人受保險監管理辦法第35條 條文及條文對照表 控告表 裁刑委員會兼交交交通裁判 聯合委員會 宣讀完畢第一零零案 交通管送�"},{"start":6586.303,"end":6613.983,"text":"第一一一案 交通部海外修正交通部航港局編制表陳修永會見交司法及法治交通兩委員會宣讀完畢第一一二案 交通部海外修正交通部公路局工程材料技術所編制表陳修永會見交司法及法治交通兩委員會宣讀完畢第一三案 衛生福利部函送安菲他命類藥品與其衍生物質 眼淚及痔跡為藥食法治禁藥及其另外規定陳修永會見交生衛福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢"},{"start":6614.924,"end":6642.608,"text":"第114案 衛生福利部海外廢止 禁用屬胺肥大名 類似減肥藥品等二項公告陳修永會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳完畢第115案 衛生福利部海外修正 兒童接少年 收出養命和服務者許可及管理辦法第30條及第30條之一條文陳修永會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳完畢第116案 衛生福利部海外修正 港部檢疫規則部分條文陳修永會見交社會福利及衛生環境委員會 宣傳完畢"},{"start":6642.868,"end":6660.326,"text":"法院會本案國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案第117案勞動部海外修正就業促進津貼實施辦法部分條文前序委員會建交社會福利及衛生環境委員會宣讀完畢法院會本案國民黨團體改交審查本案交社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查下一案"},{"start":6660.782,"end":6674.532,"text":"第一方案 勞動部海外修正職業安全衛生教育訓練規則部份條文 陳修永會兼交生物衛福理性衛生環境委員會 宣讀完畢無異通過 法院會第119案至173案依序宣讀其中121 124 126 128 129 131至134 145 147 148 154 167案 臺灣民眾黨團體改交審查"},{"start":6683.459,"end":6698.618,"text":"第122至125、133案國民黨團體改交審查宣讀之後以上提案均改交相關委員會審查其餘議案均照程序委員會意見通過請問院會有異議沒有異議我們宣讀宣讀之後通過請宣讀"},{"start":6700.424,"end":6729.759,"text":"第119岸至第121岸內選部第112岸及第123岸國防部第24岸國軍退出官兵輔導委員會第25岸外交部第126岸及第127岸經濟部第128岸國家發展委員會第129岸農業部第130岸財政部第131岸行政委主席總署第132岸金融監督管理委員會第133岸省計部第134岸及第138岸文化部第139岸及第140岸教育部第141岸及第142岸核大權委員會第143岸及第144岸國家科學及技術委員會"},{"start":6730.399,"end":6755.338,"text":"第145案是第147案交通部第148案數位發展部第149案衛生福利部第150案勞動部第151案是第166案內選部第167案大陸委員會第168案海洋委員會第169案原住民族委員會第170案及第171案教育部第172案內選部第173案外交部海綿更年度相關預算中央政府海關戰略提出計劃採購特別預算113年度會計報告查核報告"},{"start":6756.738,"end":6763.103,"text":"114 年度中央政府總運算 114 年度中央政府總運算追加運算的運算權益分別簡訊相關報告 宣讀完畢"},{"start":6770.097,"end":6795.238,"text":"另一期四案為本院教育及文化委員會報告審查相關人民團體的請願案經審查結果均負成為議案案諮詢事項 找行政院答覆部分請政院函送本院黃委員建豪等所提諮詢之書面答覆光三件以本院委員質詢部分本院龍委員之強項 行政院提出質詢共一件宣讀完畢好 報告委員會 我們報告事項已經處理完畢現在我們進行同意權之行使事項請宣讀審查報告"},{"start":6796.792,"end":6820.027,"text":"本院交通委員會於114年8月28日舉行公聽會《廣大學者專家經濟見解並製作公聽會報告》以供本院委員參考本院交通教育及文化兩委員會於114年10月20日 召開聯席會議審查本案會議由李教景 袁崑澤擔任主席並邀請行政院張秘書長敦寒報告及行政院人事行政總書判員貝勳"},{"start":6821.548,"end":6839.828,"text":"10月20日 與會委員提取行政院張秘書長敦衡報告後由國家通訊全部委員會委員並委主任委員 被提名人蔣榮鑫先行說明委員洪孟凱等20人提出詢問其後有委員並委副主任委員被提名人陳明修說明委員吳佩儀等11人提出詢問另有委員盧明哲等5人提出書面質詢"},{"start":6840.589,"end":6842.11,"text":"我們現在請召集委員李崑澤委員補充說明"},{"start":6867.401,"end":6879.163,"text":"沒有補充說明好報告委員會我們現在對國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員副主任委員及委員被提名人同意權之行使進行記名投票表決"},{"start":6880.239,"end":6902.109,"text":"由各黨團各推派一位擔任投開票監察員有關同意全案之相關事務工作均循例辦理設置圈票處四個 票軌兩格幫議會在投票表決之前我們先來做以下兩項宣告一 投開票監察員由國民黨團推派王洪威委員擔任"},{"start":6903.149,"end":6913.346,"text":"民進黨團推派王振旭委員擔任臺灣民眾黨團推派劉書斌委員擔任二 投票截止時間為上午11點26分"},{"start":6916.229,"end":6940.556,"text":"如全体委员于11点26分前均已经投票完毕我们提早开票重复一次10点26分我们开始投票全体委员于上午11点26分均已经完成投票完毕我们就提早开票现在请工作人员布置投票所并请投开票监察员执行监察职务"},{"start":7118.41,"end":7146.36,"text":"我們依照業會決定國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員 副主任委員兩位委員被提名人並為一張同意票另外為便於領票及投票領票時請各位委員分區領票編號1號到60號請至南區領票編號61號到113號委員請至北區領票投票時發言台兩側各有一個票軌均可以投入現在請各位委員開始領票及投票"},{"start":10320.68,"end":10330.196,"text":"報應會我們距離投票截止時間上午11點26分還有三分鐘在這裡上沒有投票的委員要請大家趕快投票"},{"start":10497.776,"end":10505.277,"text":"好 報告議員會 我們投票截止時間上午11點26分已到請按鈴請工作人員佈置開票所"},{"start":10610.745,"end":10622.389,"text":"好 現在跟院會報告發票報告書我們領票委員立法院行使國家通訊傳播委員會人事同意權投票表決發票報告書領票委員110位"},{"start":10627.116,"end":10655.172,"text":"沒有領票的委員 3 位合計 113 位中華民國 114 年 11 月 7 日投開票監察員劉淑斌委員王洪威委員王振旭委員報告委員會 我們現在開始開票請開起票軌並整理同意全票"},{"start":11163.939,"end":11179.332,"text":"好 報應會我們現在依序進行唱票請唱票丁學中同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11188.426,"end":11202.997,"text":"劉許廷同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意王世堅同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意"},{"start":11215.672,"end":11228.303,"text":"黃薇薇 同意羅惠文 同意王振旭 同意全票蔣榮鮮 同意陳明修 同意黃薇薇 同意羅惠文 同意"},{"start":11238.001,"end":11249.226,"text":"王育敏同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意王定宇同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意"},{"start":11268.061,"end":11275.824,"text":"羅惠文 同意王美惠 同意全票蔣榮軒 同意陳明修 同意黃薇薇 同意羅惠文 同意"},{"start":11287.304,"end":11291.827,"text":"王逸川同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11303.291,"end":11316.42,"text":"王鴻薇同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11321.084,"end":11326.447,"text":"吳麗華同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11336.215,"end":11344.418,"text":"江啟臣同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11353.53,"end":11370.973,"text":"何欣淳同意全票蔣榮鮮同意何欣淳同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意吳佩奕同意全票"},{"start":11372.477,"end":11389.387,"text":"蔣榮軒同意吳佩儀同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意吳宗憲同意全票蔣榮軒不同意"},{"start":11390.027,"end":11402.556,"text":"吳宗憲同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意吳秉瑞同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11419.228,"end":11428.994,"text":"吳思瑤同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意吳綺銘同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意"},{"start":11445.143,"end":11466.559,"text":"黃薇薇同意 羅惠文同意 羅惠文同意呂玉玲同意選票 蔣榮軒不同意呂玉玲同意選票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意 陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意 黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意 羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11468.021,"end":11478.574,"text":"李坤澄同意全票蔣榮軒同意李坤澄同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11484.229,"end":11499.132,"text":"李坤澤同意全票蔣榮鮮同意李坤澤同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11500.171,"end":11516.34,"text":"李彥秀同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意李彥秀同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11517.27,"end":11536.373,"text":"李柏毅同意全票 蔣榮軒同意李柏毅同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意 陳明修同意黃巍巍同意 黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意 羅惠文同意沈伯陽同意全票 蔣榮軒同意"},{"start":11537.037,"end":11548.185,"text":"沈博洋同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意沈發惠同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11565.444,"end":11580.351,"text":"林月琴同意全票蔣榮鮮同意林月琴同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11581.448,"end":11604.532,"text":"林佩祥同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意林怡瑾同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意"},{"start":11611.184,"end":11620.855,"text":"羅惠文 同意林黛樺 同意全票蔣榮鮮 同意陳明修 同意黃薇薇 同意羅惠文 同意"},{"start":11630.606,"end":11635.312,"text":"林俊憲同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11646.807,"end":11658.555,"text":"林思明同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意林建啟同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意"},{"start":11676.927,"end":11687.818,"text":"羅惠文不同意林國成同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11695.726,"end":11699.911,"text":"林淑芬同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11710.743,"end":11719.447,"text":"林楚英同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意林德福同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意"},{"start":11738.275,"end":11747.723,"text":"羅惠文不同意邱志偉同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11756.519,"end":11764.571,"text":"邱若驊同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11772.742,"end":11777.389,"text":"邱振鈞同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11789.204,"end":11793.449,"text":"邱奕瑩同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11804.693,"end":11810.879,"text":"柯智恩同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11820.968,"end":11825.175,"text":"柯建銘同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11835.871,"end":11851.257,"text":"洪孟凱同意全票 蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意許巧心同意全票 蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意"},{"start":11862.282,"end":11876.396,"text":"黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意徐欣盈同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11884.844,"end":11889.267,"text":"徐富奎同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11900.595,"end":11907.902,"text":"圖權吉同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11915.951,"end":11923.519,"text":"翁曉琳同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11932.092,"end":11943.019,"text":"馬文君同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意馬文君同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11948.53,"end":11959.625,"text":"高晶素梅同意全票蔣榮軒不同意高晶素梅同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":11965.072,"end":11971.118,"text":"張宏祿同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":11980.29,"end":11984.712,"text":"張綺凱同意選票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意盧慧雯不同意"},{"start":11996.861,"end":12004.452,"text":"張志倫同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12012.882,"end":12016.925,"text":"張雅玲同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12028.753,"end":12040.002,"text":"張嘉峻同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意張瑞雄同意全票蔣榮鮮同意"},{"start":12049.836,"end":12065.889,"text":"莊瑞雄同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意許宇珍同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12077.498,"end":12091.947,"text":"許智傑同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意郭育琴同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12108.044,"end":12117.607,"text":"郭國文同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意陳永康同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意"},{"start":12135.351,"end":12146.417,"text":"羅惠文 不同意陳玉珍 同意全票蔣榮軒 不同意陳明修 不同意黃薇薇 不同意羅惠文 不同意"},{"start":12155.382,"end":12184.444,"text":"陳秀寶同意全票 蔣榮鮮同意陳秀寶同意全票 蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意 陳明修同意黃巍巍同意 黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意 羅惠文同意陳亭飛同意全票 蔣榮鮮同意陳亭飛同意全票 蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意 陳明修同意黃巍巍同意 黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12185.194,"end":12192.903,"text":"羅惠文 同意陳俊宇 同意全票蔣榮鮮 同意陳明修 同意黃薇薇 同意羅惠文 同意"},{"start":12202.365,"end":12229.274,"text":"陳冠廷同意選票蔣榮軒同意陳冠廷同意選票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意陳昭芝同意選票蔣榮軒不同意陳昭芝同意選票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意黃巍巍不同意"},{"start":12229.754,"end":12246.785,"text":"羅惠文不同意羅惠文不同意陳素月同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳素月同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12247.771,"end":12261.592,"text":"陳培余同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳培余同意全票蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12262.689,"end":12277.928,"text":"陳雪生同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳雪生同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12279.11,"end":12286.68,"text":"陳金輝同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12295.212,"end":12302.923,"text":"陳超銘同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12311.463,"end":12324.813,"text":"陳盈同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳銀同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12325.772,"end":12331.718,"text":"麥玉珍同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12341.667,"end":12349.178,"text":"傅坤祺同意選票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12357.59,"end":12367.838,"text":"黃仁同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意黃秀芳同意全票蔣榮軒同意"},{"start":12376.611,"end":12391.897,"text":"黃秀芳同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意黃建斌同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意"},{"start":12400.2,"end":12415.239,"text":"羅惠文不同意黃珊珊同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12419.341,"end":12429.985,"text":"黃建豪同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意黃國昌同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意"},{"start":12447.891,"end":12465.684,"text":"羅惠文不同意羅惠文不同意黃婕同意全票蔣榮軒同意黃婕同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12466.858,"end":12470.784,"text":"楊耀同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12482.098,"end":12489,"text":"楊瓊英 同意全票蔣榮軒 不同意陳明修 不同意黃薇薇 不同意羅惠文 不同意"},{"start":12500.792,"end":12506.954,"text":"萬美玲同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12517.259,"end":12524.583,"text":"葉元芝同意選票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12533.328,"end":12540.993,"text":"葛如君同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12549.159,"end":12556.925,"text":"廖仙翔 同意全票蔣榮軒 不同意陳明修 不同意黃薇薇 不同意羅惠文 不同意"},{"start":12564.992,"end":12575.578,"text":"廖偉祥同意全票 蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意劉建國同意全票 蔣榮鮮同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12595.253,"end":12608.121,"text":"劉書斌同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意蔡其昌同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12625.071,"end":12637.361,"text":"蔡易瑜同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意鄭天才同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12655.235,"end":12669.381,"text":"鄭振淺同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意魯明哲同意全票蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12685.312,"end":12699.556,"text":"盧憲一同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意賴士寶同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12715.593,"end":12726.146,"text":"賴慧媛同意全票蔣榮軒同意賴慧媛同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃薇薇同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12730.163,"end":12742.932,"text":"賴銳龍同意全票蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意謝依鳳同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12758.603,"end":12770.469,"text":"謝龍介同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意鍾嘉斌同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12786.858,"end":12793.926,"text":"韓國瑜同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃薇薇不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12802.521,"end":12814.166,"text":"顏寬恆同意全票 蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意羅廷偉同意全票 蔣榮鮮不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":12830.493,"end":12842.618,"text":"羅明才同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意羅美玲同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12858.784,"end":12872.528,"text":"羅志強同意全票 蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意蘇巧惠同意全票 蔣榮軒同意陳明修同意黃巍巍同意羅惠文同意"},{"start":12886.927,"end":12893.77,"text":"蘇清泉同意全票蔣榮軒不同意陳明修不同意黃巍巍不同意羅惠文不同意"},{"start":13084.994,"end":13086.374,"text":"我們現在做一下決議"},{"start":13116.135,"end":13139.629,"text":"蔣榮鮮未獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一同意票依法不同意為國家通訊傳播委員會委員並為主任委員陳明修未獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一以上同意票依法不同意為國家通訊傳播委員會委員並為副主任委員黃薇薇"},{"start":13140.864,"end":13160.435,"text":"羅惠文軍委獲得超過全體立法委員二分之一同意票依法不同意為國家通訊傳播委員會委員中華民國114年11月7號投開票監察員王洪威委員劉淑冰委員王振旭委員"},{"start":13162.325,"end":13178.429,"text":"我們上午的會議進行到此為止謝謝監察委員 王宏偉委員 劉淑冰委員 王振旭委員也謝謝廖先祥委員 陳培宇委員陪同我們一起開票也謝謝所有工作夥伴下午兩點三十分我們繼續進行質詢 現在休息"},{"start":21570.202,"end":21597.638,"text":"主委院長 各位列席的官員午安我們現在開始繼續進行今天的經濟組織諮詢我們一場二樓來自國立中科十月高中以及捷克從捷克GJP高中的同學我們掌聲歡迎大家接下來我們請劉許廷委員諮詢王宏威委員請準備"},{"start":21603.581,"end":21607.218,"text":"好 謝謝主席 卓院長有請麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":21619.315,"end":21630.351,"text":"林委員好 恭喜林委員榮英新職希望未來我們互相鼓勵 互相加油 共同合作謝謝卓院長的肯定但我們今天還是要針對重大的議題進行討論這個外貿是台灣的產業命脈"},{"start":21636.119,"end":21651.135,"text":"這個自由流通而且順暢的國際貿易的環境是台灣過去經濟奇蹟現在新一波的成功不可或缺的關鍵因素因此我想對焦世界的局勢掌握國際的脈動應該是政府很重要的責任院長同意我這樣說嗎"},{"start":21652.662,"end":21670.815,"text":"今天我們總諮詢的主題叫做中美的單邊主義產業的雙重威脅院長你知不知道什麼叫做單邊主義單邊主義從某一個國家自己的角度跟立場跟利益來出發維護自己的所有的利益那麼會跟以前所說的全球的"},{"start":21671.235,"end":21690.403,"text":"主義會有一點相排斥的作用會有一點相排斥 沒錯國際上來講單邊主義指國家單方面的行動這樣一個行動可能無視其他的當事人不對其他的當事方進行什麼特定的承諾往往帶有民族主義 霸權主義等等的色彩通常是具有一定的實力跟影響力的組織才會奉行所謂的單邊主義"},{"start":21691.663,"end":21715.661,"text":"現在的國際局勢空前的混亂川普政府上任之後對全世界發動了貿易戰跟關稅的措施請問院長認為在美國對我們的關稅談判裡面美國對台灣是不是採行了單邊主義我認為是美國一個國家對全世界多數的國家進行多數不同形態內容的雙邊談判的一種行為"},{"start":21716.782,"end":21730.397,"text":"你剛剛講美國一個國家對全世界這些東西我都可以認同但是如果對全世界到底他是單邊主義還是對等的雙邊談判因為美國有一些力量他是主導世界一些經貿的走向跟政治的發展"},{"start":21731.158,"end":21759.009,"text":"所以在這個情況底下他當然有區域上的一些責任但是就經濟上來講他還是需要跟世界其他的國家跟經濟組織共同合作才能獲得全面的發展跟平衡的進步以美國來講他當然具有剛剛院長有講他具備實際上的影響力舉足輕重那麼川普政府的MAGA基本上有濃濃的這個民族主義的色彩他單方面的對全世界課徵的關稅並沒有經過商量的一個程序"},{"start":21759.429,"end":21779.856,"text":"所以院長他到底是不是藍邊主義基本上還是有經過一些談判的過程比方說我國跟美國的談判當中我們就一直堅持我們的台灣模式這也是一個談判的過程至於歐盟日韓也都有相同的程序在進行過沒關係我們接著往下談我們再來討論這個問題"},{"start":21781.156,"end":21810.165,"text":"在承接我們上一次總質詢上一次總質詢我們花了非常多的時間去談台美之間的關稅談判很多人都逼問進度等等大概也都沒有下文我們就不再贅述但目前的關稅談判如剛剛講卓院長講他比較傾向一個雙邊的對等的談判雙邊的對等談判照理來講雙邊都應該得到一些好處對不對互利然後達成一個協議才是所謂的雙邊對等但目前為止我們的關稅談判除了止損之外真的有額外的好處嗎我唸一段這是最新的經貿談判辦公室的新聞"},{"start":21810.965,"end":21828.267,"text":"最近已經進入第五輪的實體磋商進入了視訊會議已經準備進入總結會商的階段要簽一個台美的貿易協議那談判的重點我們要的是調降關稅避免最惠國的MFN的稅率重疊也希望232條款有多一點的豁免"},{"start":21829.608,"end":21859.046,"text":"是人家丟了一個關稅在我們頭上然後我們盡量談不希望這個關稅太高可是除了這些東西以外這個東西叫做止損就是我不要受傷太重對不對那除了止損之外有沒有什麼具體的利多呢有或沒有以目前你們掌握的訊息基本上一開始的原因在於美方他要解決他的貿易逆差跟財政的赤字所以他認為說對他有貿易逆差的國家來看他必須要從貿易的平衡上面來取得雙邊的平衡"},{"start":21859.406,"end":21878.565,"text":"那我國剛好ICT產業跟其他的電子零組件對美方是有高度的我方的順差的所以他會列為一個重點的對象就我們來講我們如果對美方採取基於我們自己在產業自主發展上面的共同的需求的美方包括全球的佈局"},{"start":21878.985,"end":21896.693,"text":"那對我們來講也是一個力量的延伸我很懷疑這樣說法的真實性因為普遍上大家都擔心的是產業的空洞化你聽我講完而且談判的標的我剛問的是我們要的是關稅不要太高對不對20加N怎麼樣來做後面232能不能開幾條路讓我們的ICT還有點活路"},{"start":21897.413,"end":21923.541,"text":"這個不是利多我舉個例子給你聽這個韓國在談判的時候他是不是談了一個貿易協議他被課了關稅低了一點對不對但好歹他們在造船業等等取得了一定的共識讓他有一口氣可以走嘛那台灣呢我們現在是單純只能像日本這樣只能換到關稅不要殺那麼兇然後我要投資好幾千億美元到你美國本土這個不叫對等談判我認為叫止損因為對產業界來講的話他們是不怕競爭但是要在一個立足點"},{"start":21924.261,"end":21935.915,"text":"公平上的競爭我們在要求就是這一點至少我們在美國市場上可以跟其他國家所以哪一些產業因為這個未來可能簽成的台美貿易協定他開放了他有新增的力度是以前沒有的"},{"start":21937.404,"end":21961.057,"text":"你再講一次你馬上要談一個貿易協議嘛對不對我們會被課關稅我們會受一點傷對不對那哪一些產業因為這樣利多啦我們只要可以站在一個利主點的平等我們就不怕競爭我們就可以在美國市場上所以嘛你講的所謂利主點平等你當然是跟我們其他競爭的比如說日本韓國等等相比對不對是大家一起受傷但都不要受傷那麼重嘛所以我講這個叫止損這個不叫得利嘛"},{"start":21962.139,"end":21967.048,"text":"講到這邊談了半天只能止損那我再問一次院長這個談判是不是單邊主義"},{"start":21968.888,"end":21995.479,"text":"我們有充分表達我方的要求甚至我方未來在美國如果我們投資採購我基於我方的財政跟任何的需求我們有提出我們希望美方要來協助的地方包括一些行政作業的協助等等我覺得這不完全是單邊主義但是美方我再講一句美方要求平衡他的貿易逆差對我來講就是一個壓力但我們必須在壓力底下尋求一個貿易的平衡"},{"start":21996.599,"end":22024.516,"text":"現在我提醒一下我們的談判團隊現在要把握幾個談判的變數這我們一直在講掌握各地的政情跟國際局勢是很重要的這美國最高法院的判決現在看起來風向對於川普政府好像不太有利很有可能從他們的大法官的角度片面由總統發布課徵關稅的舉動是會受到衝擊的同樣美國國會現在進入了癱瘓的狀態很多共和黨的議員也不見得支持川普的政策甚至對於很多關稅的案子在國會是封殺的請問院長知不知道這件事"},{"start":22027.041,"end":22051.979,"text":"訊息萬變我們也不敢做任何的揣測不過我們有做事先的各種模擬的分析在什麼樣的情況底下我們應該有進一步的什麼的因應以前我們大家都很本來很急躁說要談我那時候講說不見得快速談是好的因為局勢一直都在變對不對那現在有一個機遇是這個是美國國內的一個壓力跟一個變數把握這樣的變數其實在談判上我們稍微有好不容易一點點籌碼我不敢講多"},{"start":22053.079,"end":22076.368,"text":"那這個時候談判的節奏你們會照常進行嗎還是要加速還是要暫緩還是要做什麼樣的打算有把握嗎目前的節奏包括經濟部都很辛苦他一直要跟產業界講因為產業希望我們趕快談定趕快落點落在哪裡但是因為各種局勢啊現在的變化經濟部花了很長的時間跟產業講說我們已經準備好了所有的產業支持的方案所以一旦"},{"start":22077.108,"end":22103.924,"text":"到了該弱點發生的那一天我們就馬上會上路我提醒一下啦現在比如日本韓國等他簽了都簽了嘛承諾就承諾了即便最後關稅被沒收那個協議都還在對不對但我們現在是有點機會喔因為還沒談成啊那如果有變數的話談判的節奏怎麼捏拿對中華民國產業的利益國家的利益是最好的我提醒院長要做好準備因為啊如果面對這種局勢的瞬息萬變即便是美國國內有他不利的因素我們當然要把握啊"},{"start":22104.144,"end":22129.133,"text":"對不對國安上面大家是好夥伴是盟友對不對但產業上我們不容任何威脅這也是應該要堅持的如果我們對於這樣的局勢沒有任何因應變化跟策略的調整的話那人民就很難安心了好不好我先提醒關稅的事情到這個地方善用一下機遇現在美國國內的狀況是我們可以利用的籌碼關稅談判的我希望看到一點新的或者是更多的進展因為你舉不出任何利多你只是在"},{"start":22130.293,"end":22147.559,"text":"止損的情況下談的時候那他當然就是單邊主義我們就是被欺負的對象我們進下一題這看起來世界的格局走向好像也不是只有美國在走單邊主義這個中國大陸最近搞稀土管制院長請問中國大陸的稀土管制是不是一種單邊主義"},{"start":22149.09,"end":22164.017,"text":"他利用本身這種天然資源上的優勢掌控全世界市場上的需求我講這個是違背全世界合作主義的違背全世界合作所以認為是嗎是一種單邊主義嗎如果單就這一件來看跟他在"},{"start":22165.317,"end":22180.845,"text":"整個海洋上面的霸權的爭奪來看你剛剛講說西土上違反了全世界合作的原則美國片面克爭全世界關稅有沒有違反全世界合作的原則我說他有透過談判的模式中國大陸西土也談判 他們跟歐盟才剛談完啊他們也談判啊"},{"start":22182.446,"end":22195.975,"text":"這個談判是0跟100的談判我希望我們面對這個我們今天談的是產業的威脅我就不希望太多的政治的因素在裡面美國的關稅當然是單邊主義同樣中國大陸的稀土經營當然也是單邊主義"},{"start":22197.276,"end":22224.679,"text":"對不對 所以這麼大的一個變局院長有沒有實時掌握中美他們現在講G2 structure兩大強權有掌握川習會隨時的談判的進度跟結果應不應該多掌握留心這個走向當然整個政府團隊包括國安團隊還有我們的談判團隊都密切關切美中跟美台之間的關係謝謝 那一你們整個政府團隊的安排跟想法川習會後的談判結果你覺得誰站得上風"},{"start":22226.628,"end":22247.642,"text":"兩個人都說他贏都說自己贏兩個人都說自己贏非常好這個誰勝誰負所以你沒有定論對不對你也覺得在變化中嗎我只在乎台灣國家的利益我們有站穩住這個是最重要的好 謝謝這個現在我們就針對稀土這件事情這個稀土這件事情你覺得他們達成協議了沒"},{"start":22249.298,"end":22278.471,"text":"短時間吧一年的豁免一年的豁免對不對講得真好來現在狀況出現我不知道你們有沒有掌握可是你有掌握你不會這樣回答為什麼中國商務部的說法是按照吉隆坡等他們這個部長層級的官員在會談的這樣一個結果然後川熙會只是確認因此是10月的擴大稀土管制暫緩執行一年對不對部長我這樣講沒有錯吧這中國商務部的官方說法對不對新的擴大的機制暫緩暫緩一年好院長部長白宮怎麼說的稀土禁運的部分"},{"start":22280.459,"end":22308.345,"text":"因為這個樣子他也稍微有一點退讓降低了百分之十我只講稀土他降關稅那個都是大家比較明確的稀土的部分白宮怎麼說的美國立場應該是他會積極尋求取代稀土的天然資源沒有 我沒有回答到重點不好意思我直接說明白宮的fact sheet公布的說法是包含四月因為四月有一波的七種稀土管制十月的擴大管制白宮的說法是四月跟十月通通會解除"},{"start":22309.482,"end":22324.811,"text":"院長有沒有掌握這個訊息啊那雙邊認知應該有落差對不對好 雙邊認知落差因為他們現在只是穿席會聊好像還蠻愉快的對不對可是如果雙邊在這個具體的事實認知上出現了嚴重的落差那請問他們的協議會簽還是不會簽這個很難在這裡預測他們雙邊的行為很難預測行為 部長覺得呢"},{"start":22333.093,"end":22347.679,"text":"因為上次川普1.0的時候中國也承諾了 但是後來也沒有買所以美國人也很生氣所以我們後續還是要看他們兩個國家實際落實的狀況所以你們也沒把握對 但是對台灣來講的話"},{"start":22349.58,"end":22369.076,"text":"第二階段的這個豁免對我們就是相對比較好因為第二階段有包括主要是磁鐵跟馬達的部分好 非常好這個待會我們有花一些時間來做討論我再多給團隊一點訊號啦這個第一個這個兩邊的認知不同我們剛剛已經說明了嘛這個美國的貝森特選舉就說啊如果稀土禁運持續"},{"start":22370.377,"end":22394.222,"text":"關稅就會重新回來這個訊息你們應該要掌握對不對這個中國商務部最近啊大幅的擴編人力為什麼因為他在搞什麼搞稀土的專案審批嘛你要專案核准才能夠出口對不對商務部欸川習會好像聊得很愉快可是一邊又說關稅會回來一邊講說我商務部要擴增人力這個信號是什麼真的有這麼樂觀嗎院長部長我再問一次你覺得這個協議會不會簽成"},{"start":22398.068,"end":22417.657,"text":"他總是中國總是要有一些準備吧anyway他可能不管一年的豁免之後可能還要重新談判也不一定甚至我很擔心如果這整份協議都沒有簽成那這一年的豁免會有豁免嗎是不是就沒有了對不對但是目前看起來還是有這樣的口頭上的地兒"},{"start":22418.797,"end":22444.591,"text":"但兩邊的官方文書說法現在開始出現起義喔沒關係都有可能啦有可能簽的成然後不知道是哪個版本對吧也有可能我認為本席認為機率不低啊因為雙方的認知都不同已經擺在檯面上而雙方的商務系統也都做出了相應的準備所以是很有可能他們兩個聊得很愉快但最後協議簽不下去協議簽不下去代表什麼"},{"start":22445.211,"end":22449.423,"text":"院長 部長 請問四月包含十月的稀土淨運它會不會繼續存在"},{"start":22451.499,"end":22475.138,"text":"但是委員因為他們兩個國家對國際間已經散發出有和善有一年的豁免如果又破局的話我想他們兩個國家也會有壓力很難對全世界交代所以部長比較樂觀 院長你樂觀嗎你覺得有多大的機率簽成協議然後是照哪一個版本來走其實站在中華民國台灣最大的利益是希望全世界穩定"},{"start":22476.472,"end":22501.949,"text":"軍事、政治、經濟都穩定那我們才能在當中快速的尋求我們發展的途徑所以任何大國之間的協議如果讓全世界都有一個看到一個清楚的目標他就這樣去達成全世界會比較穩定我期待是這個樣子好 院長期待往好的方向走部長本人的專業判斷比較樂觀本席是不太敢太樂觀為什麼 因為"},{"start":22503.57,"end":22530.765,"text":"我跟你講這兩個大國現在都是單邊主義他們都自己想幹嘛就幹嘛不愉快就互相衝突常常有的事情既然是這樣子的國際環境我希望我們是用料低從寬的心態你當然要想萬一他延長了對不對四月的也延長了十月的也延長了我們要提早有因應的措施嘛對不對部長應該不會反對我這樣講吧因為你被動因應或者說主觀期待很樂觀不見得能夠及時回應產業需求嘛對不對"},{"start":22532.507,"end":22560.249,"text":"所以我就要往下問啦稀土的經營措施不見得會解除我們剛討論過了那這段時間我看經濟部的業務報告對不對等等賴總統的一些想法我們有所謂的五大信賴產業包含全球的半導體AI 軍工 安控還有次世代通訊等等是我們未來要主力扶植的產業要加強台灣的競爭力對不對請問這五大產業會不會受到稀土經營的影響"},{"start":22562.266,"end":22575.945,"text":"會 如果是第二階段那個部分主要是磁鐵跟馬達那個部分會受到比較大的影響部長 第二階段除了具體的講到跟磁鐵跟馬達會有影響之外他還有一個什麼樣的機制會讓我們有更大的產業衝擊"},{"start":22578.95,"end":22593.256,"text":"他是審批就是說賣到第二國家你要告訴我你最終會賣到哪一個國家用在哪裡標準答案叫長臂管轄對不對也就是說我不會只是管直接從中國大陸進口的稀土或者是相關的材料我連轉口的他手都要伸過去"},{"start":22593.756,"end":22613.525,"text":"然後來做壓迫 對不對所以這對台灣的產業風險恐怕是不太小事實上我們根據中華民國商總2025工商會務雙月刊裡面有一筆研究資料叫做大陸管制稀土出口對於美中台產業鏈供應鏈的影響分析2024年以台灣的這個量來講這個95.3%95.3%的稀土磁鐵86.1%的稀土金屬混合化合物79.5%的某類式化合物"},{"start":22624.17,"end":22645.98,"text":"60.7%的稀土金屬是直接來自中國大陸直接或間接來自中國大陸這些東西會影響軍工電動車風電影響醫療高階光學半導體核心這是我們現在最強的地方它雖然不是直接依賴但是它的下游設備跟高階檢測磁性元件等等先進封裝應該都會或多或少受到影響"},{"start":22647.165,"end":22674.021,"text":"我這樣引述有錯嗎但是製程上的影響比較小因為主要是製程上的話會用到所謂的那個4跟藍這一次在12項裡面前後12項裡面沒有包括這兩項我講五大信賴產業就半導體可能相對很小因為這個半導體大家關注關注度很高的相對來講資訊比較透明其他的呢 跟磁鐵馬達的部分主要是主要這個部分影響會比較大"},{"start":22674.161,"end":22688.807,"text":"跟磁鐵因為磁鐵馬達其實是小的元件但它影響很多東西來跟你的五大信賴產業有哪一些會具體的受到影響部長要不要說明一下因為大部分的機械的部分會動的部分都或多或少會用到馬達跟磁鐵"},{"start":22693.912,"end":22705.823,"text":"所以半導體剛剛講的是封裝嘛對不對所以AI相關的一些電子領域也會用到對不對軍工當然有你剛剛講的無人機安控通訊應該都會用到吧哪一個產業可以完全豁免跟稀土無關的"},{"start":22706.363,"end":22734.433,"text":"是 但是現在的部分我們是因為間接進口就是精煉是在其他的國家玩了以後我們是間接從美國或日本或者是美國歐美日本我都明白但它的原料都在哪裡啊美歐日做這半程原料在哪裡目前依賴比較還是依賴中國大陸比較重對不對所以這是一個你們一個不會反對的事實就以簡單做一個表格跟五大產業鏈這個都有分析的半導體或這幾個"},{"start":22736.569,"end":22764.21,"text":"三 甲 特 狄 流 抗 乙這七大元素四月宣布進口的四月宣布管制的七大元素也就是到現在為止都還要專案審批的七項系統元素跟五大信賴產業的關係軍工特別高所以軍工的影響比較大因為牽涉到無人機等等那跟半導體影響比較小就是我剛才講影響最大的是四根藍沒有在這裡面對所以我今天就針對"},{"start":22765.706,"end":22790.715,"text":"軍工 針對無人機的部分大家來做一下討論我們的政府花了非常非常多的資源有中央的計畫其實各個部會在這個年度的預算書裡面其實很多都提到了無人機產業這應該是一個很重要的施政的目標無人機產業當然應用很廣但很重要的部分當然還是在軍工跟國防那談到軍工跟國防我們常常政府裡面常常說出來要打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":22792.156,"end":22803.362,"text":"打造這個這樣子的一個供應鏈的情況下請問我們的無人機產業啊我們政府設定的自製率是多少也就是自己國產自己做目標有沒有 有沒有一個相關相對明確的目標"},{"start":22804.463,"end":22830.892,"text":"我們當然是希望說最後的最終結果我們都能做我們都能做並不表示說我們一定全部都一定要在台灣做而是有這個能力因為這個會牽涉到經濟規模的問題如果這一項的零組件只能用在這個area來講的話顯然是不符經濟規模但是如果說特殊狀況要做我們是能夠做出來就好像"},{"start":22832.052,"end":22849.653,"text":"現在很多的無人機我們電子五個說老實話你給他一段時間他都可以發展出來但是問題就是說因為他現在沒有那個需要跟訂單那麼大所以他不見得會投產你在政府在發展整個無人機自製的產業的過程之中你們有沒有設定應該打造非紅供應鏈這樣的戰略目標"},{"start":22850.934,"end":22871.69,"text":"現在看起來晶片有個非紅供應鏈在那個地方其他的產業有沒有非紅供應鏈的目標是 軍工的部分是有的軍工的部分有對不對所以無人機應該也是在應該要變成一條非紅供應鏈以民進黨政府的執政方向這樣應該沒有錯吧對 跟民主國家要共同形成要共同協助好啦 那我就要問核心的問題啦那請問無人機產業我們繞得開紅色稀土嗎"},{"start":22875.897,"end":22894.546,"text":"紅色的稀土因為稀土現行的狀況就是都在中國大陸所以說為什麼很多的民主國家包括澳洲現在還有美國本身還有很多的國家已經開始針對這些所謂的稀土的部分開始重新開採因為過去來講的話事實上它的成本是不符合這樣的"},{"start":22896.107,"end":22911.083,"text":"因為中國他對環境比較沒有那麼care所以因為他大量要用強酸所以會影響到一些環境所以很多國家不太願意倒不是說他們沒有稀土而是這個精煉的過程開採完要精煉對 要很多的成本"},{"start":22911.343,"end":22936.728,"text":"中國大陸可以卡人家脖子對不對除了稀土產量本身大之外關鍵是精煉的技術或什麼他抓在自己的手上而且他現在在進行管制的措施以無人機產業來講上游的稀土原料跟磁體90%以上要依賴中國大陸中游的馬達 自動氣等等的零組件70%要依賴中國大陸即便是下游的組裝整機因為人家零件的物料等等的優勢也都有50%左右的"},{"start":22937.128,"end":22959.81,"text":"我現在很擔心我們的政府又要講飛鴻供應鏈無人機又是軍工產業裡面的還蠻重要的一個亮點政策的一環那這彼此之間會不會打架再來就是說如果稀土的長臂管轄跟控制持續的話那我們的無人機產業是推呢還是不推呢院長可以回答嗎我們當然是推啊所謂的飛鴻供應鏈或是民主供應鏈不單是我方"},{"start":22961.021,"end":22983.552,"text":"要去發展是全世界民主理念相近國家都認為在此時此刻如果有這樣一個民主的供應鏈對資安安全上對國防安全上是必要的而且是不可取代的所以不只是我方所以我們應該結合這些理念相近國家共同來尋求一個產業的供應鏈這才是全世界"},{"start":22984.252,"end":23005.908,"text":"大家合作之道目前大家遇到的共同困境就是大家目前一時半刻都繞不開稀土剛剛部長有講好像各國在合作澳洲馬來西亞等等有可能有新的投資但你這個新的投資我們先不管中國大陸會不會在精煉的地方再做長臂管轄這整個過程走下來籌資落地設廠還要再商用等等怎麼樣也要有個三五年吧"},{"start":23006.468,"end":23026.809,"text":"對不對那這個時候跟我們國家要推動的會不會被卡住啊我只在擔心這個問題啊稀土禁運如果持續存在不要影響我們的產業發展我覺得這是我們政府要特別留心提防的很多人不管是半導體也好其他的產業也好大家都在提醒啊我們現在有沒有針對我們的稀土的進口稀土相關產品的進口進行全面的盤點而且進行庫存的統計"},{"start":23028.351,"end":23047.348,"text":"因為現在這個是一個不確定因素嘛你不確定他的禁運會抓的多嚴嘛我們現在有多少的這個稀土進口走了專案審批被打槍的沒有辦法順利通過的有多少是透過第三地目前還可以順利通過的經濟部這邊行政院這裡國安團隊這裡有沒有掌握啊"},{"start":23048.371,"end":23069.278,"text":"八號委員現在絕大部分是進口沒有錯或是稀土的間接產品絕大部分是進口所以我們現在有一些想法就是說我們自己要有一些庫存上的準備滿足我們自己自足但是沒有辦法完全我們希望至少在2030年之前可以有滿足我們三分之一三分之二還是要跟民眾講那個三分之一具體來講是幾噸"},{"start":23070.666,"end":23095.658,"text":"因為那個出口的量我們查到的資料是大概6000億台幣嘛500噸那我後來有看到另外一份資料講說我們每一年的剛性需求大概是1500噸的稀土左右嘛那你希望達到三分之一因為我目前也沒有看到我們有跟其他國家比如說合作開採或什麼樣的一個狀況嘛對不對我目前看到政府推出的策略只有比如說回收再利用欸 此時此刻我們是只有實驗室對不對他能夠一年可以弄出多少噸稀土啊 透過回收"},{"start":23096.358,"end":23111.375,"text":"現在公園已經它有公斤級的這個精煉的相關技術公斤級所以還有一段路要走Scale up以後再把這個計算給這個廠商現在已經有一些廠商有興趣了那這些廠商事實上他們"},{"start":23112.276,"end":23140.835,"text":"有已經在跟澳洲或者是其他國家有在談了就是說這個原料可以從那邊進來我提醒政府啦既然這五大信賴產業或多或少都會要使用稀土那麼稀土的淨運跟長臂管轄跟專案審批它或多或少就會影響產業發展的進度請針對相關的產業進行盤點它現在已經是重要戰略物資啦你政府當然要有所掌握要庫存統計的掌握你不見得要公開因為它有商業機密這個我們都尊重的"},{"start":23142.576,"end":23165.792,"text":"布裡面現在到底有沒有統計啊 有沒有盤點的資料我們一直在準備啊 所以就是剛剛向委員報告的嘛為什麼我們會開始做自己的 包括您應該要回收在最嚴苛的情況下 比如說談判破局10月的稀土禁令保留 而且開始進行長臂管轄我們可以撐多少天 他開始斷供的時候一案都沒有過 我們可以撐多久"},{"start":23166.411,"end":23191.571,"text":"沒有現在來講的話全世界還是有間接稀土在運轉當中所以我剛剛問他長臂管轄開始使用包含間接他都把他掐起來的時候沒有他有些已經出口的已經有DIR的跟人家談好合約他不可能在長臂管轄所以你現在有一些庫存有一些DIR那大概可以撐多久半年一年兩年三年有沒有一個簡單的時間因為我們的部分我們是間接進口所以很被動"},{"start":23193.331,"end":23217.053,"text":"目前第一道難關倒不是台灣是我們間接進口的那些國家請你做好最壞的打算我只能這樣說我們會準備好不逼你在這個地方講出具體的數字但是請你做好準備這是本席要嚴肅的提醒關稅稀土很殘忍這稀土禁運我剛講了中國大陸當然是單邊主義然後他當然就是搞卡脖子對不對但我告訴你我之所以擔心的事情我不會只擔心稀土"},{"start":23217.774,"end":23245.408,"text":"其他的產業也挫雷彈這個是台晶院部長以前待過台晶院做的景氣燈號報告這當然以總體來講股市兩萬八對不對半導體產業長紅經濟成長率創新高拍拍手但是這個燈號展現了什麼樣的那個你有沒有看過整份的報導基本上除了電子零組件跟半導體科技產業是紅燈熱絡嘛產值非常的高之外其他的產業基本上一片藍的狀況部長有掌握這樣的訊息嗎"},{"start":23246.477,"end":23269.222,"text":"我知道但是因為這個怎麼編的我也知道他比較不敏感我建議您去看看他的營業氣候測驗點國發會你有一個網站我也知道但他沒有這麼詳細的分享台晶園的報告是有詳細各個系的產業的分享這我想也不用我在這邊多言基本上除了半導體跟比較進步科技的產業之外其他的傳統產業是很辛苦的"},{"start":23269.542,"end":23280.572,"text":"我要問你的問題是這幾個產業化材 石油 煤製品 汽車零件毛房品 金屬手工具一般通用機械跟自行車這些產業的共通點是什麼你知道嗎除了他們都是藍燈之外"},{"start":23283.462,"end":23299.907,"text":"現在我看到了實際上的數據比如說九月份很多的產業的出口已經都恢復到正的成長顯然就是說你回答我的問題就好除了燈號之外有沒有什麼共同點當然就是從五月份開始因為四月份是對等關稅我問你這幾個產業的共同點是什麼"},{"start":23304.39,"end":23331.293,"text":"你一時半刻也看不出來因為時間有限我直接公佈答案他們都是ECFA早收清單的受益者他們出口賣到中國大陸享有相對優惠的關稅稅率既然美國會用單邊主義殺關稅老共會用單邊主義搞稀土會不會哪一天大家不愉快的時候用單邊主義取消我們的早收清單我們的政府有沒有針對這樣的產業鏈可能的進一步的衝擊傳產的毀滅性打擊預先做兵棋推演"},{"start":23332.452,"end":23349.287,"text":"院長有嗎所以我們一直在說除了幫助產業能夠在內部研發轉型之外重要的是多元市場的開發幫助他多元市場開發就不會落在一個國家的找收清單把你卡死我們現在協助他往"},{"start":23349.767,"end":23370.556,"text":"更多的市場去做更多的開發這就成績單啊你看開發國外市場結果還是藍藍藍藍藍對不對好像效果不好我希望要加油如果你要預做最壞的準備兩邊都會搞單邊主義那表示我們的外貿環境已經不像以前這麼好了我們就希望看到政府有很多積極的作為他可能是預防可能是轉移風險你要做超前部署"},{"start":23371.317,"end":23387.012,"text":"所以謝謝立法院給我們的特別預算至少經濟部來講有460億來因應這樣的挑戰就是多元開發市場還有我們自己本身的轉型升級的協助"},{"start":23387.732,"end":23401.782,"text":"我要提醒最後的時間產業現在面對中美單邊主義的雙重威脅已經是板上釘釘的事實我們如果還在政治掛帥忽略產業的真實需求我想是蒼白無力的人民期待的是方法跟出路"},{"start":23403.343,"end":23426.909,"text":"我要提醒我們的行政院要為產業界創造友善的環境用任何方法創造友善的環境這是我們政府不可迴避的責任我希望我們的行政團隊針對關稅跟稀土的雙重衝擊做好準備 謝謝我們的提醒跟我們現在的關鍵有很大部分是不謀而合所以我們如果共同努力讓產業界更有信心好 謝謝劉許廷委員質詢謝謝卓院長 經濟部長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":23431.683,"end":23451.042,"text":"謝謝王振旭委員 張雅玲委員陪同我們一起參與今天的總質詢接下來我們請王洪威委員質詢陳超明委員請準備好 謝謝主席我先請行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢"},{"start":23461.345,"end":23484.104,"text":"王委員好院長好院長這兩天有一個政策出現了大轉彎而且引起軒然大波就是我們的衛福部長宣布的補充保費這件事情行政院在昨天晚上緊急喊卡我想請問一下卓院長對於衛福部所"},{"start":23484.804,"end":23495.204,"text":"宣布的補充保費的內容跟決策你事先知道嗎還是如同媒體所報導你是看到報紙才知道"},{"start":23496.458,"end":23515.817,"text":"跟委員報告衛福部長期以來對健保的財政要做全面的改革一直是一個很重大的課題所以我也很肯定衛福部用他各種的設算去提出未來健保財政改革的方案但是這個補充保費他所宣布的內容你事先知情嗎"},{"start":23516.938,"end":23535.093,"text":"整個詳細的內容沒有到這麼詳細但我們知道比方說他把這個一千萬的門檻上限拉高到五千萬這個部分的討論是有過的那其他也有一些討論利息鼓勵租金這個就是"},{"start":23535.934,"end":23558.351,"text":"涉及到包含小資族跟一般的散戶的這部分的補充保費這個案子你知情嗎是不是那媒體報導有沒有出入呢你是不是這個想起你是在媒體看到的我們在衛福部提出的整個報告裡面我們有看到他有一份這樣的想法但是這個想法要經過嚴謹的"},{"start":23560.032,"end":23579.256,"text":"衛福部跟行政院內部討論才會出來公告就是要兵取社會共同的意見這個案子為什麼後來突然喊卡因為包括連衛福部都說這個案子的細節根本沒有跟金管會來溝通討論過這樣的決策模式請問院長覺得這樣可取嗎所以它並不是一個定案既定的要實施的決策"},{"start":23587.657,"end":23610.724,"text":"他就是一個預告讓社會各界來提供意見這樣引起軒然大波你會不會覺得在你們的部會之間的溝通應該要做檢討可以更好這一次的這樣的整個的大轉彎緊急喊咖院長有震怒嗎沒有"},{"start":23611.704,"end":23638.592,"text":"不必為這樣子震怒我要了解整個事情的來龍去脈院長其實今天我們是經濟部門的質詢但是我要講的就是政府為了這個財政收入的增加不管是健保也好或者其他也好今年其實已經有兩起這樣的事件包含之前年初的750元之亂這個其實我們之前是討論過的"},{"start":23640.353,"end":23657.242,"text":"就是突然這個速發部要對這個進口3C的產品要課徵750塊還有這一次的健保補充保費的部分所以院長其實老實講我不大曉得你們哪來的底氣我都覺得我要恭喜你們了"},{"start":23657.762,"end":23685.04,"text":"以為你的施政滿意度是60% 70%才會搞出這樣的一個狀況嗎所以這樣的一個政策的混亂我認為一定要避免而且涉及到民眾特別是深斗小民他們的支出或者要跟他們身上去科學也好規範也好一定要更為慎重您同意嗎兩點跟我們回報"},{"start":23686.482,"end":23705.577,"text":"民調再高都應該要妥善的溝通這個民調無關第二點我在這裡都講過健保的改革是要讓高收入的國人多負擔一些沒錯這個才是大原則你們現在都是跟一般的小股民跟小資族時間暫停一下我請一下經濟部長時間暫停麻煩請經濟部長備詢"},{"start":23718.413,"end":23735.424,"text":"時間繼續好 院長 經濟部長這兩天還有一個非常重大的當然外界看起來也是一個政策大轉彎但是如果轉彎的話我個人是非常肯定的卓院長曾經說非核家園是不可放棄的目標"},{"start":23736.425,"end":23752.451,"text":"但是大家也知道在錯誤的能源政策下大家一直都認為台灣不應該完全的摒除核電這兩天包含台電對外宣稱說核二核三有重啟的機會跟條件"},{"start":23753.191,"end":23769.585,"text":"好包含媒體問我們拱部長的時候呢拱部長也沒有否認這件事情但是只是說這個呢需要有啟動還是要有一些和安的檢討而且時間不一定會一樣好所以我想請教院長"},{"start":23770.586,"end":23794.291,"text":"在政策上現在行政院支不支持台電提到經濟部的有關於現在開始來評估評估何二何三長重啟的計畫行政院支持嗎在有法律的改變之後我們尊重專業的"},{"start":23796.885,"end":23814.739,"text":"這個分析跟科學的根據如果專業跟科學認為有重啟的可能性而且安全無虞在有法律合法的基礎底下那就請台電進行自主安全檢查的這個程序那看結果如何我們再來依最後的結果來做判斷"},{"start":23815.86,"end":23839.617,"text":"院長其實今天的宣誓是一個非常重大的轉換我們說整個肺核家園從今年的5月17號和珊走入歷史之後那麼當然是在這之前我們立法院就努力了推動法案以我個人而言我從我補選立委到後來的參加大選我的"},{"start":23840.898,"end":23867.942,"text":"問政還有我的選舉的政見都把希望爭取核二核三廠研議作為我的政見老師說今天有這樣子的一個轉圜我個人我相信我們絕大部分的企業產業還有絕大部分的國人是支持的我也要請委員也能夠支持政府多元開發多元綠能的這項政策跟努力"},{"start":23868.562,"end":23874.85,"text":"待會我就會談到綠的不是不支持但是不支持掏空的行為這個題我還要請教"},{"start":23877.39,"end":23902.297,"text":"過去為什麼要推動研議因為台電曾經評估過荷爾核三廠的研議費用研議是要有費用的分別是150億到300億但是重啟的費用當時在整個的公投的時候環團他們提出來的評估說如果核三要重啟的話"},{"start":23903.337,"end":23932.623,"text":"那麼時間要耗費5到10年花費的費用高達4900億元請教部長環團這樣的說法是不是接近事實的應該不是這樣應該不是那大概是多少重啟的費用大概是多少因為現在我們要自主檢查以後跟這個原廠評估以後才可以知道但是當然國外是有一些經驗那是不是一定會比重這個研議的費用要高"},{"start":23933.523,"end":23950.038,"text":"國外的重啟不會像這個右邊這樣的數字這麼高不會好 但是一定會比研議高我在這邊我就必須要說因為當初評估的價錢跟現在因為現在物價上漲等等一些情況所以我要講的"},{"start":23951.545,"end":23975.987,"text":"重啟的成本時間成本費用成本一定會比研議要高這是必然的所以我要講就是說雖然我支持我支持我們現在和二和三開始重新的來啟動他們可以重啟的開始的評估這個程序但是啊我真的覺得"},{"start":23977.108,"end":23994.017,"text":"我要講就說當時我們說破嘴核三廠在今年5月17號走入歷史短短半年之間然後我們真的覺得撐不下去了然後要現在重啟核二核三現在連核二都要重啟評估"},{"start":23995.738,"end":24024.215,"text":"當然我知道這個壓力很多是來自於美方最近美國有太多的智庫也好專家也好能源的相關也好或者是國安的相關也好都指出台灣能源韌性脆弱的一面所以重啟核電我相信有很多來自於美方的壓力可是錢是我們台灣老百姓出的不是嗎"},{"start":24025.692,"end":24031.838,"text":"早知今日 何必當初你覺得當年讓河山廠就這樣走入歷史是不是很可惜的事情河山廠5月17號他庭議是基於當時河管法40年的規定後來經過大院把它延長了"},{"start":24046.05,"end":24068.331,"text":"但是我想委員我提醒在當時5月17號的那個時候我要求台電核三廠的人員不能讓他離開一定要保留在原廠裡面因為我們未來還要做很多包括核三廠的善後乃至於新的核能技術的接觸等等所以我們就是有準備當有新的核能技術的時候我們要開放態度來整個跟世界做共同討論的"},{"start":24068.831,"end":24085.1,"text":"我們還好啦 核二核三廠至少核二廠也沒有像核一廠把燃料棒全部都送回去了今天才有機會來做重啟那另外 我剛才講到綠能我們支持綠能 時間暫停一下我想也請農業部長上台時間暫停 麻煩請農業部長備詢"},{"start":24097.128,"end":24114.073,"text":"院長我剛才就說我不知道行政院現在還是有哪來的底氣可以做這樣政策混亂這樣的大轉彎剛才講補充保費最近還發生就是台肥董事長吳英寧人事的事件"},{"start":24116.194,"end":24128.004,"text":"吳英寧在公布大概兩天你們農業部還幫他保證在龐大的社會的輿論壓力之下大轉彎他當董事沒有當董事長"},{"start":24129.591,"end":24149.422,"text":"院長這不是第一個案例去年對不對台灣今年同樣的是發布他當董事長吳政章結果呢號稱是賴清德震怒三天下台錯誤的人士吳政章下台"},{"start":24150.56,"end":24179.266,"text":"另外經濟部主導成立的綠能科技的中心前執行長鄭益齡他也是去出任我們的台智電的副總經理後來涉入弊案被生壓我要講的是這些重要的國營事業人士為何如此草率為何會有這樣大轉圜台北市上市公司不是國營事業"},{"start":24179.997,"end":24193.386,"text":"你沒有股權嗎 你的股權將近四分之一他還是上市公司跟國營事業是不一樣的如果沒有農業部的支持如果沒有農業部的支持吳亦寧可以當董事長嗎 可以當董事嗎你還好意思在這邊強辯我們推薦他 吳亦寧本身他還是對於農業本身他對農業夠了解"},{"start":24206.215,"end":24232.581,"text":"這些人士難道你們不應該檢討嗎你如果覺得他那麼好農業部不是肯定吳怡寧嗎你讓他當董事長啊吳怡寧本身他對農業本身的產業範疇是夠了解的我要講的是國營事業其實過去的人碧綠藍綠啊很多國營事業非常積憂但是我們現在看到的幾大國營事業"},{"start":24234.093,"end":24263.143,"text":"院長我不曉得你知不知道我們現在幾大國台電嚴重虧損這個大家知道了中油現在也在嚴重虧損中累積有沒有虧損嗎有沒有虧損還要再強變你以為只有中油跟台電嗎台水螳融台船現在通通是在虧損中我要特別講一下中鋼院長有沒有買過中鋼的股票"},{"start":24263.8,"end":24283.488,"text":"我到現在沒有買過任何一張股票中鋼過去是台灣的基優股以前在台積電之前很多的股民要存股要存什麼股 中鋼因為中鋼是一家基優的公司到現在股民130萬股"},{"start":24285.609,"end":24302.957,"text":"最近我連續參加中鋼工會兩次的記者會為什麼中鋼員工在抗議在配合政策下讓中鋼去參與了星達海基的投資綠能啊 風電基座"},{"start":24304.257,"end":24320.346,"text":"讓中鋼一下子虧損了64億之多虧損完了我現在最近才知道喔國發基金也有投資然後還要求中鋼把國發基金的股票也把它買回去因為不要再增加國發基金的虧損了國發基金虧損也虧損累累啊"},{"start":24324.878,"end":24347.359,"text":"他是一塊錢買回去的不是用原價這家公司都快要倒掉了啦還要讓人家買回去股權還是有啊所以怎麼樣倒逼公司讓中鋼去承受讓龐大的130萬股民去承受嗎我今天要講的是今天我們未來都會在歷史留名當年的趙鐵頭趙耀東先生"},{"start":24349.921,"end":24367.191,"text":"大家抬到趙鐵頭是說他把中鋼帶得那麼好成為台灣一等一的公司結果你現在中鋼虧損累累院長你知道中鋼現在虧損多少嗎中鋼的虧損也有一個原因是來自中國低價鋼的競爭來取消這是其中之一所以院長以中鋼這麼好的公司"},{"start":24374.275,"end":24378.017,"text":"這麼好的公司啊到現在累計虧損出現了將近50億46.8億的虧損而其中投資綠能慘虧64億元之中"},{"start":24404.67,"end":24415.397,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝王宏威委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來請陳超明委員質詢 郭育晴委員請準備"},{"start":24434.568,"end":24444.351,"text":"指揮院長好首先有請我們行政院我們的卓院長還有經濟部的總部長麻煩請卓院長 經濟部部長備詢陳委員好卓院長 總部長好"},{"start":24461.909,"end":24464.372,"text":"那把它放了一下首先我請我們的卓院長跟廣布長好好看這個紙庭以台灣產業經濟發展的角度讓台灣的加熱"},{"start":24481.081,"end":24509.392,"text":"去打世界的市場但是我們也不希望執政黨不能也不行這句話很重要領以外人不以家僕我為什麼寫一個家農台灣人是為了台灣這塊土地去做五做六才有今天經濟的繁榮發展可能你們覺得不重要但是我今天特別請經濟部長來要注意這個產業"},{"start":24511.716,"end":24537.669,"text":"現在最熱門的話題就是台灣目前開發加熱於2000公升分別是日本跟美國那美國的那個加熱於進口是跟我們的7-11是連線日本的話跟我們的那個全家連線這裡面發生了一個非常重要的問題"},{"start":24539.995,"end":24568.19,"text":"當時送件審查的時候台灣已久公司跟台灣有兩三家公司都去送審但是在送審的過程不斷的要求補件現在台灣目前只能買到日本的加熱瘀美國的加熱瘀台灣自己產的加熱瘀只問樓梯廠從來沒有看到人下樓一直一直在補件"},{"start":24569.221,"end":24597.813,"text":"所以台灣現在變成日本跟美國加熱衣的殖民地國務部長我強調這是一個產業再來這裡面的過程台灣自產的加熱衣最大的問題在哪一個地方國產史規範的健康風險評估沒有標準可行那我也先到這些廠商的請託我也請教過國健史"},{"start":24599.7,"end":24621.932,"text":"風險評估裡面的動物臨床實驗的規模去標準是怎樣完全不曉得我用紅字特別點出來完全不曉得讓我請教業者如果能提供健康風險評估的報告去申請那些申請的委員又是如何能把它申請"},{"start":24623.586,"end":24644.104,"text":"完成審查 院長這是很重要的事這幾項你來了解我用詞的用意在 我不然你太老了 那就沒面子了再來 美國跟日本通過審查你就應該公布他的健康風險評估報告讓我們全民檢驗"},{"start":24645.796,"end":24669.268,"text":"不是在政府在那邊替美國日輪廠商在煙煙吹吹這大家外面都說大的黑箱作業啊 台灣就很可憐今天日本跟美國會贏 台灣都不會贏那我也跟院長 部長報告 台灣已久市場大概有兩千億的規模"},{"start":24670.902,"end":24697.065,"text":"現在加熱於推估的話至少五百億元未來有機會抗上千億但是現在只會被美日的長徒戰台灣的加熱於沒有機會加速競爭我為什麼點這個問題因為目前全世界只有美國跟台灣要求加熱於上市前要提供健康風險的評估"},{"start":24698.925,"end":24726.501,"text":"但是日本沒有 日本上次也沒有說要提健康風險的評估所以目前因為餘壓防止法規定製造外銷也要經過台灣的健康風險的評估這樣的規範看起來我們很謙博 我們很謙高 我們道德很高我們台灣的廠商綁手綁腳也限制我們台灣加熱魚的外銷機會"},{"start":24728.2,"end":24741.859,"text":"我跟部長 院長如果這個人開玩笑以臺灣製造能力達上千億五千億美金不牙於電子產業你們永遠繼續這樣現在臺灣政府沒有把儀品"},{"start":24745.066,"end":24765.931,"text":"就是現在的加熱鹽當作產業在看待所以目前每日都是在台灣的市場佔有最高利益外面怎麼傳輸要給他抽習慣油市場就是他的你不知道這裡生你人這裡美國人這裡日本人我要求該要求我們台灣的政府你們就來配合他們怎麼做"},{"start":24767.727,"end":24780.404,"text":"連泡沫台灣依舊的湯董事長也很無奈他說我是政府主派的 我不能講話你看有比亞的嗎 哪裡有這樣的政府不然我們給他特別提出來我們現在"},{"start":24782.116,"end":24810.839,"text":"目前換算台灣的加熱衣外銷加熱衣的製作有很多是含有電子科技的含量記不好含有很多電子科技的含量在臺灣的電子業很厲害臺灣的電子業很強烈我們應該幫助你你臺灣不同意沒關係我們自己去外銷我們自己來發表我們自己去爭取市場我們現在政府偶像不通"},{"start":24812.267,"end":24833.709,"text":"美國就有,可以進來日本就有,那叫做設限條件要保持台灣這麼輕鬆你們的政府配合那些觀念我不再講了,這難聽啊,真的所以我在這裡,我只要拜託說現行的醫藥房子規範,製造外銷要經過"},{"start":24836.352,"end":24856.919,"text":"臺灣的健康風險評估 我覺得你放寬如果我實施的國家是同意的話你就讓我做外銷嗎可憐的臺灣人 真的是雲木明子別在臺灣深耕花花我們的天使煙你們竟然擋得嚴嚴密密那什麼 我是老實人"},{"start":24858.052,"end":24873.107,"text":"我了解產業這個產業未來未來很重要可以變成國際性的產業不要頭腦每天想電子什麼的這個是全世界通用它不亞於電子產品的產量"},{"start":24874.028,"end":24896.468,"text":"我希望這一點 你聽到沒有第一點在法律通過之後 加熱菸是可以在國內市場上市政府該做的是後市場的安全管理 這個我們要做好第二點 至於他要上市經過的審查的標準國內國外應該一致標準不容許有不同的標準第三個"},{"start":24898.237,"end":24927.193,"text":"台酒公司他要加油政府的立場希望台酒公司加油加油之後第四個我們尊重國健署這個專業委員會在健康風險評估之後的專業的審查結果我問了你通過了那個健康風險評估好你美國日本過了給我們參考拿不出來不敢拿出來這是酷刑的所在"},{"start":24928.379,"end":24930.521,"text":"三月的審查委員會說引用的資料引用的資料跟標準應該國內國外都要一致"},{"start":24951.049,"end":24976.67,"text":"阿對台灣怎麼苛責 這是我們的本領我還說這個一個大行業嘛我相信台灣做出來比美國日本還要好 已經做出來了每次送繩都不夠 不講理由就推薦了哪裡有這麼爛的政府 每天要求台灣人我真的講 你們都不知道 港府長 這個是產業"},{"start":24979.588,"end":24990.11,"text":"我講地方的事情你換到農業部長上來一下一定 這個要好好研究這台灣有辦法做出世界第一的好的產品因為我們台灣的電子業 科技業金融那個裡面跟它有關係你不管是冷液還是要熱的都有關係這是台灣的專長"},{"start":25009.707,"end":25029.034,"text":"美國人會過 日本人不會過台灣的科技那麼強 不能夠我們求行 這個我拜託一下我是不憑責命啊好 謝謝委員提醒 我們一定馬上了解沒有時間的關心那我地方的建設大溪谷計畫我一直講下去 滾布場"},{"start":25030.683,"end":25055.177,"text":"你跟我講要有 你從國發會行政院秘書長 現在政府部長我講了幾十四五年了 你們那樣跟那樣沒有關係一樣嘴巴講得甜言蜜語 背後都不動作我不會說你背後插刀啦 都不動作啦這個給我講一下啦還有我們國發會的主委 你別起來別起來別起來我跟你們說 你們這樣就知道"},{"start":25058.137,"end":25080.271,"text":"好 我農業部的話舉個出來好 陳超明委員索取的資料麻煩請行政院送到陳超明委員研究室謝謝陳超明委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":25085.677,"end":25114.028,"text":"好 接下來報議院會我們一場二樓旁邊來自北一女中的同學我們掌聲歡迎未來的棟樑接下來我們請郭育群委員質詢謝龍健委員請準備好 謝謝主席 有請院長跟農業部部長麻煩再請卓院長 農業部長備詢"},{"start":25127.526,"end":25146.487,"text":"郭委員好兩位好我想今天早上我想先請教一下院長的感想NCC人事統一權又全數被封殺全部被杯葛這已經是延宕多時了你對這樣子的一個結果你有什麼樣的感想行政院感到非常的遺憾"},{"start":25147.881,"end":25162.716,"text":"NCC通傳會它是一個獨立機關它在這個專業學士跟實務經驗上我們在這個領域找了各方的人才當作被同意人進來當大院來行使同意權"},{"start":25164.144,"end":25190.094,"text":"未來這個通傳會他要促進媒體的自主對於廣電衛星內容人事制度各種的管理都必須要他來從事而且很重要的對內容的管理還有對兒童安全 兒少安全那大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選可是我們送出來了卻連一個都沒有難道他們是會一無是處嗎"},{"start":25191.671,"end":25212.891,"text":"難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎結果是黨議凌駕一切如果這樣的結果讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過行政院提出的人選一定被封殺那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢"},{"start":25213.442,"end":25235.343,"text":"未來中選會我們提出的人選各方來建議的人選我們送出來了只有在野黨的會通過行政院的被封殺像今天這個樣子那會造成歷史的大錯誰都不敢冒這個風險所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信完全沒有合作基礎我非常非常的"},{"start":25236.363,"end":25248.054,"text":"非常非常的遺憾不要說行政院沒有遞出感染資我把整個感染源的一半都遞出來了結果沒有得到任何善意的回應我覺得這個是讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式"},{"start":25248.544,"end":25277.432,"text":"好我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見啦因為有許多重要的一些業務其實也完全的被停擺當中喔好那進入到我今天想要質詢這個農業部的一個主題啦那但是在這裡還是要給我們的農業部還有我們的中央以及我們第一線的房檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵我們在最短的時間其實這個危機處理拆彈成功喔但是是階段性的一個成功對於這次的非洲豬瘟的部分來說那要給你們更多的支持跟鼓勵啦"},{"start":25278.172,"end":25305.33,"text":"但是其實這次的非洲豬瘟的一個事件當然也凸顯了一個問題也就是全台灣總共大概有五千位的這個獸醫師但是在真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師包含所謂的醫師佐大概只有百分之五點七五那只有三百五十二人其實他們要管理很多很多包含三四十間的所謂的農場或者是牧場那另外他一個人可能要負責上萬隻的一個動物"},{"start":25308.572,"end":25330.02,"text":"像這次的這個非洲豬瘟這樣子的一個狀況之下有可能都會變成是自主或者是移工或者是他們直接請所謂的醫事所來做這個投藥的一個動作那我想這個凸顯到一個就是我們的疾病當動物的疾病沒有被專業的一個診斷跟通報那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的一個隱憂這是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的一個警訊"},{"start":25330.78,"end":25359.776,"text":"但是我想法律明明有規定這個牧場一定要有所謂的特約的獸醫師但是問題是大部分都是只是掛名大部分只是掛名政府沒有一個查核的機制我們怎麼知道這些所謂的特約的獸醫師他們的尋訪他們的尋查有沒有被落實而更深層的就是教育上的一個問題我所謂的教育上的問題因為有很多受到所謂的獸醫教育的人才他們可能畢業之後他們希望能夠往都市"},{"start":25361.737,"end":25383.776,"text":"從業都是所謂的臨床寵物這樣子的一個這個從事的一個行業所以真正願意留在所謂的牧場的人是少之又少為什麼因為工作環境不佳再加上他們的薪水其實是低的我看到有一個粉專他在披露所謂的一個這個所謂的特約的這個獸醫師他管一個這個豬農的一個場域"},{"start":25387.259,"end":25411.948,"text":"三萬六三萬六不是一個月三萬六是一年一年三萬六千戶這樣子誘因這麼低我們怎麼能夠留得住人才這是一個問題再來我看到這個是第一個防線有那個防線但是這個防線到底是虛的是空的還是實的其實值得我們去深思第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全台的防治所跟動保處"},{"start":25412.788,"end":25439.405,"text":"的所謂的基層的獸醫師這些公職的獸醫師為什麼我要這麼講因為他們可能要負責所謂的鹿島的動物鹿殺的動物他可能還要負責檢疫的工作他可能還要面臨所謂的人要去評估人道安樂這樣子的一個措施的同時他要背負很多的社會輿論的一個壓力還有人情上的一個事故那麼連所謂的在評估的同時他沒有時間"},{"start":25440.726,"end":25460.376,"text":"在時間緊迫人力需求是完全匯乏的情況之下他有可能就有悲劇我講到2016年的這個在新屋收容所的這一線的簡訊收益師他自殺自殺的事件他在遺書當中他特別寫到他寫說末端的資源人力不足"},{"start":25460.956,"end":25489.545,"text":"源頭的管理管制工作沒有辦法做好流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難這是他一書上寫的這點出什麼樣的一個問題很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人但是很少人知道他們面臨沒有人力沒有資源沒有心理支援的狀況之下每天可能要面對很多的生死他們也被迫在這樣子的一個體制下能夠要做"},{"start":25490.245,"end":25503.697,"text":"缺口當中是最難的一個決定好 這是一點另外一個動物的悲劇是前一陣子我不曉得我們的部長有沒有看到那麼有一個民眾他去檢舉了嘉義市一位不當飼養的飼主"},{"start":25505.438,"end":25524.209,"text":"他的老狗那麼他隔籠跟他跟這隻老狗來做互動他通報了所謂的這個地方的動保處那麼動保處隨即當然就將這隻狗摸入那你知道狗狗其實他有自己本身防衛的那樣子的一個天性他被人捕捉到"},{"start":25525.269,"end":25544.46,"text":"陌生的地方他一定會吃鴨咧嘴他一定會吠叫即使他已經是十幾歲的老狗但是他長期的被虐待等到這一位所謂的檢舉人他第二天要到這個動保處他要去領養這隻狗的時候這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉盡所"},{"start":25544.96,"end":25571.792,"text":"他就已經被安樂了我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的他們在沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理的時間緊迫之下做出了有爭議性的行為之後我們沒有要檢討這位一線的受益師我想這基層的公職受益師他們已經承受太大的壓力但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口誰要來補"},{"start":25572.992,"end":25594.154,"text":"那麼我想在沒有時間的一個判斷之下做出這樣子令人遺憾的一個決定導致這隻狗狗這隻老狗原本他是可以有幸福非常渺茫的機會但是他前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人"},{"start":25594.874,"end":25621.964,"text":"是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師剛剛有說全台灣有5000多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到1000人現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會"},{"start":25622.884,"end":25643.462,"text":"我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農 漁"},{"start":25645.684,"end":25668.698,"text":"還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的"},{"start":25669.679,"end":25694.878,"text":"到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長"},{"start":25696.259,"end":25713.716,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是淚爆啦那我們雖然說有一些不開的獎金但是獎金"},{"start":25714.757,"end":25732.689,"text":"並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位"},{"start":25734.83,"end":25751.835,"text":"他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理您剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入"},{"start":25752.515,"end":25779.277,"text":"要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置那後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方啦我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的"},{"start":25779.617,"end":25799.591,"text":"如果讓整個所有的體系跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範"},{"start":25801.125,"end":25824.715,"text":"因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症有特寵症都出事了沒有特寵症的私房的問題又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂"},{"start":25826.035,"end":25848.11,"text":"為什麼我這樣講20幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在到一直現在我們還是發現而且更遏制的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了生態那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了"},{"start":25848.43,"end":25875.887,"text":"其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能在生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這一位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現"},{"start":25876.747,"end":25905.346,"text":"我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一怕非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘"},{"start":25906.787,"end":25907.751,"text":"謝謝委員長對動保議題的關心你剛剛提到受益師合理的退場"},{"start":25916.493,"end":25935.303,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝郭益勤委員所取得資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝郭益勤委員 謝謝卓院長 相關部會組長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員質詢以書面提出我們請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報再接下來我們請謝龍介委員請質詢"},{"start":25955.413,"end":25960.776,"text":"主席我請到院長跟經部長麻煩請委員長 經濟部長備詢感謝老委員 貴委員謝委員好"},{"start":25979.531,"end":26006.895,"text":"先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好 先生好"},{"start":26007.659,"end":26033.629,"text":"沒有電就沒有競爭力了尤其這個電的部分過去因為為了要達到離空離歐年的恢復能力加強所以很匆忙的中間來推動這個力量他們說問題是很多但是這第一我是很清楚的概念這跟熱情的倒影台的體制是沒有關係的但是"},{"start":26035.54,"end":26047.485,"text":"如果有太高級不凡的議員、分析人員要強烈對折那麼在這個中台的政策,因為如果沒有做一個調整對於我國的競爭力是非常嚴重的挑戰我要請問保長,因為這是你的任務你知不知道全世界太陽能"},{"start":26061.918,"end":26085.297,"text":"發展的成本 一個空隙大概如何?我們說價錢就好價錢是越來越多啦越來越多啦因為他的成本是逐年在下降台灣不算啦 想蓋整個做一個國家你知不知道?做太陽能的部份?我不知道來 我要請教你 你知不知道日本的太陽能發展多久?對 它比較貴啦"},{"start":26088.886,"end":26105.614,"text":"對啦 日本是最貴的嘛全世界 除了台灣以外是最貴的一坨貴的你知不知道新台幣2.7元美国的太陽能一坨新台幣1.8元澳大利亞太陽能新台幣一坨1.4元"},{"start":26119.158,"end":26141.646,"text":"白色太陽營一座一戶一戶半大國恢恢靈的家鄉太陽營一座一戶八中東啊中東日頭比較嚴太陽營發展的成本一座四甲半支九甲也是我們的競爭對手印度"},{"start":26148.516,"end":26170.584,"text":"太陽能喔 一套高格新代表因為我不知道怎麼說 就是說當機是要去推動太陽能這一兩條的三頁不可能不變故 世界的行政嘛後來 我剛才已經有跟你講過過去的發展 因為我們蓋 我很高興聽到福利福生這兩項"},{"start":26178.922,"end":26184.084,"text":"有機會重啓這就讓我們有兩個負能電廠的時候我們就可以慢慢、好好、更強勇來擴大太陽能的發電跟熱能的發電所以變成大總統跟党議長你們就有這個機會創造歷史的關頭"},{"start":26201.798,"end":26229.521,"text":"過去我們對今天拆造一個分析而已過去的太陽能是受到政府所推動的一坨五坨 五坨全世界所有的太陽能平均一坨新台幣的一坨半我們五坨 過去啊但是過去那些高雄高鐵到碧端 火航的油丸要查啦"},{"start":26231.223,"end":26240.449,"text":"我現在是這樣 我經過我跟台電所談過 跟統計所有國營事業所來討論可是 一定 如果可以在你的臨來推動台灣歷齡的專行你跟老總統可以推動這個專行重新開啟一片歷齡 太陽齡的新疆那麼讓他們做記載"},{"start":26260.905,"end":26278.458,"text":"逆應 交給台電 跟相關的公用數額出來的土地 我給你算過了這幾萬公頃裡面 如果是交給台電去運作包括兩條高速公路 跟東西方的快速道路啦這裡所有的 能夠好好使用不用跟水庫 水庫面積不大啦 發了不少電啦"},{"start":26289.383,"end":26311.331,"text":"要出一個替代方案是很簡單的你不跟大家對著台南人對著這個五三頭飲水我們的陰泳水灌溉泳水 大家貼心吊膽實在是沒必要 柏中你覺得怎麼樣這個您剛才提到高速公路這個部分我們都有跟相關公路沒有啦 那沒關係 我不是在跟你說這個嘛我剛才在說這飲水大...來來來 我請問議長議長 我們今天談到大風洋"},{"start":26318.079,"end":26330.923,"text":"如果可以在這裡做一個重新開始 我在這裡回頭看保證啦你跟老總統 跟金部長 你如果願意這樣輸給我我給你保證台灣的太陽能 一度可以在3個月以後我不要跟你說2個月以後 如果你說是2個月以後啦好 跟你說3個月以後 全世界會想整個喔"},{"start":26343.715,"end":26365.234,"text":"我們從3個來進步到2個半 你知道嗎 你如果這樣做我們所有的競爭力可以提升 百姓 生活 同胞 碰撞的壓力就可以降低了 你覺得如何 看台好 報告委員 政府是嚴肅的 不然我就分割過去蔡政府的政策 現在我們也在做我...我...我...你誤會 我的意思嘛"},{"start":26366.482,"end":26381.146,"text":"我告訴你過去的經濟存在的這些東西潛入二十年不可能廢掉嘛我第一要說的就是說太陽林 台灣因為土地管理 土地困難再來我們初期發開發的成本當然更高你看世界各國初期到這段時間沒工沒工沒工沒工我告訴你"},{"start":26385.507,"end":26393.909,"text":"現在我已經決定 檢討這個正義地區 民間地區 不讓我追考我們現在要講解身份 看這正義是多少嘛我們現在來講 我剛才在跟你講 交付專業的 內定的去經營 大規模去經 我跟你講啦 能夠降到三個月以後啦"},{"start":26409.244,"end":26415.371,"text":"你說過去打開市比較貴 我說全世界我所知道的國家打開市也沒有一度超過兩塊八的啊這開發的 你寒了再進行 你看他賞幾兩塊八 還要兩塊開市呢他早開發 他的成本比較低啊我們不是要陪你燒煎煎嘛"},{"start":26428.746,"end":26454.397,"text":"所以我贊成委員的說法啦 我們就專業去處理包括給他們電池 有沒有要重新啓用或沒有 給專業來評斷所以我的意思是說 針對太陽能要有一個新的時刻就是說我們所有 坦白講啊 以前你金嘛金要促成 所以單價提高工收費 我就說那已經過去了但是那你不可能把它廢除 那有合約的嘛"},{"start":26455.439,"end":26477.503,"text":"未來可以中心 好啦 你就是說用一個現在太陽能一切身份都講過了連老九號台電的專機去處理太陽能的發電我只要給你三年保證台灣的太陽能發電可以降到來3.1%全世界現在平均是1.4%所以我不知道你會不會對這個政策"},{"start":26483.052,"end":26506.444,"text":"共同大力來推動這對你們還是一個好的歷史可以留名對台灣的競爭力是可以極度提升的呢可以要求台電降低它所有發電的成本不管是天天天天氣的 煤的 火的都可以降低它的成本 當然是好的事情你把台銅台鹽的土地交給台電去開困本身給你保證2.5億"},{"start":26514.673,"end":26522.681,"text":"我幫你補正 你可以請補正這剛好全部都是在你的檢控櫃檢管裡面請研議一下這樣啦 給你一個月的時間研議後分析一個粗暴的答案這樣可以嗎 有辦法嗎研究多一個重點 你說土地喔"},{"start":26536.038,"end":26557.344,"text":"研究太陽能 講到這三項以下就是有專程的單位不要再給民間 大家什麼栗油油 菜油油什麼油油 沒意義啦就對沒油油 沒什麼油油我可以在經濟部台前一國一國裡面從綠營 尤其是太陽能未來 省份的分析如果從台灣新的太陽能"},{"start":26559.765,"end":26560.005,"text":"好沒問題"},{"start":26582.039,"end":26594.694,"text":"謝謝謝龍介委員質詢謝謝卓院長經濟部長備詢謝委員所取的資料麻煩送到謝委員辦公室謝謝謝謝謝龍介委員謝謝接下來我們請廖先祥委員質詢黃建斌委員請準備"},{"start":26612.696,"end":26620.892,"text":"謝謝韓院長 麻煩邀請我們卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢經濟部長也可以一起麻煩請經濟部長備詢"},{"start":26625.097,"end":26652.027,"text":"廖委員好院長午安我們這個地方比較低政治的話題我們先討論一下就是平溪的天燈其實它對於不只對新北市它是台灣一個非常光光重要的一個元素現在新北市政府它擬具了一個天燈的自治的條例那也送到行政院來了行政院其實是分到經濟部這可能太細的事情您不一定會知道目前有在做一些討論因為其實"},{"start":26653.447,"end":26680.607,"text":"它自治條例的精神就是過去天燈會產生一些問題包括環保的問題是許多人在認為詬病的或者是它有時候會產生一些火災甚至燒到民房的一些賠償問題所以說這個文化或者是觀光的體驗也必須要隨著時代與時機均達到共贏的一個目標所以說他們提出了這個自治條例那未來包括這個標章的一個制度那會有收費那包括未來的支出對於環境的永續以及"},{"start":26681.207,"end":26691.02,"text":"民眾的一個賠償的部分在這個自治條例裡面大概多有琢磨現在送到了行政院來院長對於這樣子的一個朝永續與時之際的一個自治條例"},{"start":26691.601,"end":26712.877,"text":"您的態度是不是原則上支持報告委員 知識條例的內容沒有看到但是平溪的天燈我個人過去也曾經去過我覺得那是非常有特色的當然我們要兼顧到是安全環保以及當地居民他們接受度的問題那這個如果有妥善的規劃跟很合理的溝通大家能夠達成一致"},{"start":26713.217,"end":26728.794,"text":"那我看自治條例的內容如何我們會採取正面的方式因為這個原章送到經濟部了經濟部也很感謝經濟部同仁跨部會都在協調當中了原章大家對於條文的內容大家都是支持這樣子的一個方向我們不討論泰西但方向是這樣對的沒有錯但是其實內政部現在有一個問題就是說"},{"start":26730.376,"end":26744.652,"text":"他認為這個自治條例所收到的錢叫做這個屬於特別功課那他不屬於規費那所以在特別功課上面他有一些法律的要求他必須要法源地方政府才能夠"},{"start":26746.454,"end":26769.577,"text":"來對他們的自治條例來實施現在卡在這個問題這個可能是一個跨部會的問題是不是能夠請院長如果說你認同這個方向我不是說你今天要跟我承諾就是要核定但是目前卡在特別功課的議題上面導致內政部目前沒有辦法他是有一些異議的那是請我們的院長後續再去跨部會來做一些協調讓天然的自治條例盡快的通過"},{"start":26771.695,"end":26799.578,"text":"規費或費用收入必須要依法所以在法源允許的情況底下這不是規費啦 這是特別功課對 特別功課對 比較專有名詞他必須要有一個合法的法源那無論是內政相關或是財政相關我必須要跟他們多多溝通但是我認為能夠協助地方發展特色這個前提如果擺上去的話我們可以做其他的修正好 謝謝院長再麻煩院長責成我們的所有的單位議題來努力那接下來下一個議題"},{"start":26800.595,"end":26823.128,"text":"就是這幾年其實台灣許多的買車的民眾都有在討論一個議題就是他們認為為什麼大陸的車輛沒有辦法進來因為可能一樣的車子大陸製的車子比如特斯拉好了我們不要講大陸的品牌比如說特斯拉他在大陸的一個售價大概就是台灣的大概一半左右而已許多的民眾都有疑問說那為什麼不讓他進來台灣銷售"},{"start":26824.289,"end":26847.794,"text":"那當然我知道我們政府一定有一些相關的規範我也沒有說想要趁這一次的質詢就要改偏車的方向或是院長承諾什麼東西但是我認為我們的行政院應該要有這樣子的一個政策的一個說明因為民眾很多都不知道為什麼大陸車不能進來那不能進來我相信一定是於法有據那這個於法有據的背後的精神是什麼我們可以請我們的行政院對我們的許多要購車的民眾來說明一下"},{"start":26849.605,"end":26872.899,"text":"我們會也會負責說明當然我們對一些產品的進口當然他不能違反到國家的安全這是最基本的那另外還有的就是說油車會影響到國家安全嗎對這不一定那個我是說其中一個方向另外一個是對等談判的問題就是說他對我們有開放我們也會對他有開放台灣的車可以賣到大陸嗎不行"},{"start":26873.715,"end":26897.435,"text":"御龍不是過去 他是在那邊落地所以對等的部分要開放而且不能獨支在那邊所以這個還是要透過一些彼此雙方的談判才有辦法去解決的問題面對這樣廣大的構成民眾的一些訴求我們未來行政院會不會去做一些討論比如說你說的對等談判"},{"start":26898.647,"end":26927.043,"text":"會去談嗎報告委員電動車的部分我們當然要安全注意特別高因為他涉及到很多資安的問題如果是電池或是整個車的底盤我們是有明文規定是不准進來的如果要來這裡設廠他必須完全符合我們的自治率再來他如果整車的進來非電動車整車要進來又採取低價競銷的方式難道委員不覺得對國內的產業會造成重大衝擊嗎"},{"start":26928.649,"end":26948.257,"text":"一部分是你們的說法是重大衝擊購車民眾的看法是充分競爭沒關係這個部分我不說談就是我們對於大陸製的車輛我不是講品牌喔是大陸製的車輛所以我才拿特斯拉來做一個比例就是說外國的品牌歐美的品牌在大陸生產製造的也沒有辦法進來"},{"start":26949.878,"end":26964.733,"text":"我們對大陸是特別的規定比如說你剛講的安全的規定資安的規定這應該是所有一視同仁都應該要有的一個規範但是我們就直接明定大陸製的汽車不能夠進口到台灣來賣"},{"start":26966.334,"end":26992.464,"text":"這件事情它是一個獨立的規定那我們的法源依據跟我們的精神到底是怎麼樣就國安的標準來看我們對資安是高度重視這一點我也要請委員能夠重視電車不要沒關係中國製的電動車輛跟外國其他國家是不一樣的安全你說資安我就順著你的話講電車不要那油車呢那油車剛剛說要互惠對等所以說現在行政院我確定是不是行政院至少經濟部長講"},{"start":26994.332,"end":27015.95,"text":"油車的部分是不是對等是我們最重要的一個問題所在對 因為所以只要願意雙方互相開放那沒有牽扯到資訊安全 國家安全那應該就是要開放嘛所有的汽車都是最敏感的因為汽車牽涉到可能他有限量的問題還有關稅多少多高的問題怎麼開放的問題是比較複雜的"},{"start":27019.033,"end":27045.308,"text":"每個國家都有這個問題我們針對大陸就有特殊的規定嘛那這個規定的來由是什麼嘛中國沒有跟我們談這項啊所以說我們也沒有意願去談嘛對不對那如果說他們來主動跟我們談或者是我們的民眾希望經濟部去談你們會排斥嗎如果要談可以談啊可以談嘛不違反國家安全的情況下貿易對等的情況下院長跟部長認為這是可以談的嘛"},{"start":27047.02,"end":27062.678,"text":"但是要符合 談的條件要符合我們對國內市場的管理啊包括法規 包括如果在這裡要落地車廠所有的車輛進來都要遵守法規 安全的法規嘛 對不對這一定要遵守啊 這本來就是汽車進口都要有經過安全檢驗測試嘛"},{"start":27063.999,"end":27083.524,"text":"每個人都要有嘛不是共同的標準都一致那現在大陸的問題就是對等互惠的問題跟國安的問題嘛資通訊的安全的問題因為所有的進口車進來也都要經過我們的檢驗這些一定都要啊全世界對於現在這種低價請銷也都有相當防制的作用有些國家他是用提高關稅"},{"start":27084.804,"end":27100.555,"text":"有些國家是用提高關稅來當作一個傾銷的策略嘛對不對但不是完全禁止現在只要是通訊設備的部分我們是不允許中國進來的所以即便他是整車也要把這個通訊設備換掉他就是遊車嘛"},{"start":27101.736,"end":27129.764,"text":"油車他有通訊設備啊好沒關係但至少至少我們要有一套標準出來才能去討論嘛對不對我們要聽到知道我們的標準或者說讓民眾理解我們行政院的一個政策他也才不會誤解我們行政院或者是兩岸未來在談判的時候也有一個標準嘛對不對我們會說明清楚好謝謝這油車的部分這個汽車進口的部分就到這邊喔那另外一個比較這個跟這個今天市主沒來啦就是剛剛王侯衛委員有問到的就是這個"},{"start":27134.023,"end":27151.782,"text":"衛福部補充保費的問題當然有掀起很大的波瀾剛剛的答詢部分院長是說要提高保費的方向就是要增加財源這個方向您大概是知道的但是比較細的部分您可能是看新聞報導才知道的是這樣嗎"},{"start":27153.967,"end":27179.824,"text":"看新聞報告是知道有一個預告那我們當然會從內部拿到一些訊息來看所以在這個石部長宣布之前他有給您看過裡面比較細的方案嗎我不知道的事情是說什麼時間要提出預告這個時間點不知道內容因為我們還沒有到達那個討論到一個完全的定案只是有幾項的原則你是方案不知道還是時間不知道"},{"start":27181.117,"end":27194.329,"text":"時間我不知道預告 發出預告的時間我們還沒有到完全內容確定的時候因為我只知道幾個大原則 比方我剛剛說過所以我問你 你知道大原則嗎補充保費第一大原則是要讓收入高一點的國人多負擔一點我們認同 這方向認同"},{"start":27201.214,"end":27228.177,"text":"所以說院長剛剛從我們的對談中應該是您知道一個大方向但是他宣布的細項並沒有提前跟您告知是這樣子嗎我沒有討論到一個定案的問題沒有討論到一個細項嗎好那我認為這個方向也是正確的但是不要讓他變成但是我有一句話30年來國人都受健保的保障現在是國人反過頭來要保障健保的時代大家也一定要有這樣的體驗其實大家的意思就這樣而已好不好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":27229.238,"end":27245.237,"text":"好 謝謝廖先祥委員質詢謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝接下來登記第15位林黛華委員質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報再接下來我們請黃建斌委員請質詢"},{"start":27255.753,"end":27262.05,"text":"謝謝主席我們有請行政院卓院長跟經濟部鞏部長麻煩再請行政院卓院長經濟部長備詢"},{"start":27269.554,"end":27296.712,"text":"黃委員好院長好 部長好本席首先要針對這個風電的議題表達對中央的肯定在本席跟我們反風電自救會共同的要求下我們中央終於願意發出公文明確的表示不贊成台東陸域風電的開發案守護我們美麗的海岸線那這也代表台東的心聲終於被中央聽見那接下來議題也希望中央能夠繼續聆聽地方的聲音"},{"start":27297.552,"end":27313.393,"text":"那這幾年極端氣候的影響之下我們台東位於這個海景第一排每一次颱風來就是首當其衝那造成這個農損損失非常的巨大像我們資料這邊看到的這兩年颱風造成台東的這個農損金額就高達12億"},{"start":27314.855,"end":27329.638,"text":"那再加上災後復原重建的經費這個對於財力及次第五級的台東縣來說絕對是龐大的負擔這需要中央跟地方合作來解決我們北省的問題那接下來我想要請院長部長看一段影片"},{"start":27333.57,"end":27345.486,"text":"路面滿是溪水已經看不到原本的道路這是位在泰馬里山金輪溪盤的部落聯絡道路由於連日降雨造成泰馬里山金輪溪暴漲溪水從堤防攻城"},{"start":27347.291,"end":27366.425,"text":"這個是零七二八豪雨期間泰馬里鄉金輪溪那個溪水暴漲的這個潰堤的畫面那先前在本席的強力者爭取下成功讓丹利斯颱風以及七二八豪雨災後重建特別條例把台東縣也納入這個條文說明裡面確保我們台東不會被遺忘"},{"start":27367.205,"end":27386.965,"text":"在這邊我也要感謝經濟部這兩年跟本社跟台南管政府持續的爭取下成功爭取到中央核定10億的傾訴還有災後復建的經費包括去年山頭河颱風河川淤積的緊急輸進工程還有今年丹利斯颱風以及0728豪雨的災後重建經費"},{"start":27388.166,"end":27407.877,"text":"想請院長簡單的回應這部分是不是可以督促我們經濟部還有相關單位如時如期的來執行全力的協助地方災後復原及重建請院長回應如果他已經是在特別預算特別的範圍當中我們當然希望盡快的速度能夠讓地方"},{"start":27409.348,"end":27437.875,"text":"在災區的民眾能夠恢復正常包括耕作 包括生活尤其是農作的部分謝謝院長現在還有一個影響台東鄉親的一個很大的問題就是我們台東的鳳梅沙每年大概秋冬強勁的東北季風都會刮起沙塵影響我們居民的生活品質還有行車的安全台東縣從我們前縣長黃建勤時期就跟水利署來共同合作用水覆蓋的工法有效的改善鳳梅沙的問題"},{"start":27438.635,"end":27456.321,"text":"那水利署跟台東縣政府這每年也都有進行改善工程但是因為這幾年連續的颱風跟豪大雨也造成相關的設施都被重回很多地方像縱埠地區台東市民眾都在抱怨所以這邊我要請院長跟部長再看這個影片"},{"start":27460.552,"end":27480.625,"text":"一波波風沙席捲而來將整片碑南溪河闖染的灰濛濛大量細沙隨風飄散往鄰近部落跟社區吹去受到東北季風增強議長 部長很像在拍電影喔好像拍電影喔黃沙滾滾居民苦不堪言"},{"start":27481.621,"end":27504.511,"text":"我們不只是吃飯 吐水連穿開都有水啦這個如果對呼吸道比較脆弱的年長者或是小孩的影響更大所以曾本席要求經濟部必須在十二月中以前完成抑制風飛沙的這個改善工程以確保接下來我們冬天這個東北季風風飛沙對台東居民的影響能夠降到最低如果說地方有"},{"start":27505.632,"end":27517.349,"text":"經費需要追加的需求也務必全力來協助 請部長回去是不是可以立即來交辦來處理 請部長回應可以 可以 我們立即來交辦感謝 感謝博定 那真的很辛苦"},{"start":27519.639,"end":27543.424,"text":"還有雲林可能也會有我們會一併來趕快處理謝謝部長接下來我們再討論有關於電感地下化的議題本席要跟卓院長來請教今年8月我們院長到台東勘差的時候有提到丹利斯颱風造成全國100多萬戶停電0728的豪雨也造成5萬多戶的停電楊柳颱風也造成30多萬戶停電"},{"start":27544.524,"end":27568.643,"text":"政府必須要解決颱風造成停電的問題電纜地下化就是關鍵吧這個不但可以減輕許多災後復原還有減輕我們重建的負擔院長當天也有提到說會要求經濟部跟台電啟動全國電纜地下化的評估像是台東就是優先的地區之一我想要請教院長目前評估的工作如何請院長回答"},{"start":27569.162,"end":27595.316,"text":"台電已經啟動這樣的一個全國性的分析針對包括地層下限易淹水地區或是地質脆弱地區排除在外之外對那個迎風面特別強的幾個我是記得有幾個路線他們已經展開第一期的這個設計跟籌劃的工作是不是請部長能夠再說明是 因為我們這一次的特別預算大概有編了80億來做這樣的事情"},{"start":27596.835,"end":27615.478,"text":"當然81要實施到全台灣當然是不夠的我們後續會陸續來編針對81的部分我們就像剛才院長提到的我們針對一些比較合適的而且急迫性的區域我們就優先來實施先這樣來做一些處理"},{"start":27615.738,"end":27638.448,"text":"這個非常重要 是不是兩個禮拜內可以提供本席份可以啦 兩個禮拜提供本席份台東區域電纜地下化的規劃跟報告我們這個選擇出來會跟地方政府或是跟委員討論一下那個地方是不是優先來實施感謝博定 感謝那再來我們討論這個有關於水菌改善的問題這個邀請農業部部長"},{"start":27641.205,"end":27660.421,"text":"那個剛剛我們有提到關於災後重建的這個預算包括核酸的傾輸還有水利設施的費用還有一個重點就是農水路的灌溉到現在還沒有解決每年只要好大雨台中幾個重要的幾個水郡像是關山池上鹿野跟北南的土體他就可能因為被好雨沖"},{"start":27661.261,"end":27679.429,"text":"重回 走向水沒辦法飲沒有辦法飲水影響農業的灌溉今年的丹利寺颱風跟0728豪雨又再次發生同樣的問題造成台東縣這次二期稻作的插秧時間整個往後延嚴重影響稻農的生計保證很多農民都在歡迎發生這種事情"},{"start":27681.229,"end":27702.019,"text":"就是因為我們現在的感覺就是用現有的土地去擋水嘛它只要遇到豪雨它就整個土地被沖垮所以民眾就說水這麼多 溪這麼多我就看它在用不著啊所以農民都會問說到底什麼時候才可以根本的改善農業部到底有沒有方法來解決本省也要具體要求農業部要立即的來研議關山"},{"start":27703.421,"end":27711.316,"text":"池上 鹿野 北南的水峻改善計畫並優先的編列經費來進行改善守護我們台東地區的農民生計請保重來回應"},{"start":27713.082,"end":27739.008,"text":"我跟委員報告今年我大概去台東三四街特別在關山這邊的部分所以我們有一個計畫就是系統性的去解決台東地區的一個進入的一個灌溉水從溪中然後拉到上面去做這個蓄水池然後再放下來所以我們現在已經有一個完整的規劃我們希望說透過這樣的一個方式能夠讓我們的水是最有效的利用"},{"start":27739.488,"end":27751.68,"text":"好 謝謝部長部長這個是不是在一個月內也可以提供資料給本席辦公室好 我們會後我想我請農水組來提供感謝博定那我們提到的風災就是要提到根據這個災害救助的部分"},{"start":27752.591,"end":27778.705,"text":"那因為這幾年隨著極端氣候的影響天災頻率越來越高光是這兩年我們剛才看到的風災對台湯澤行的榮順就高達12億 12億元那我們現行的這個救助法規的規定卻趕不上天災的頻率跟受災害的程度像今年的寒海很多農民他已經申請過天然災害補助沒有想到今年夏天颱風又來 好雨又來那他這樣子就沒有辦法再申請嘛那問題是"},{"start":27782.747,"end":27809.282,"text":"每次的災害他可能都會造成農民血本無歸還有另外一個狀況就是說現行的這個天然災害救助是用救助金是用成本的20%去計算但是災情他可能會造成農作全毀而且還需要復原的成本所以你20%的救助金根本是沒救的嘛這沒辦法去補充我們農民的基本的生活那今年8月份的時候左院長在立法院備詢的時候其實有承諾說要提高我們"},{"start":27810.203,"end":27818.77,"text":"天然災害救助金的上限會請農業部盡快的來規劃目前已經過了三個月了我想請教院長目前規劃的進度是如何"},{"start":27819.509,"end":27839.772,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是有關天然災害本身的一個救助的整個制度的改變我們現在已經在規劃了但是我們過往都是每半年調整一次所以預計會在年底之前會做一個調整然後第二年開始實施因為已經發生的東西你去調整的時候那會造成很多的混亂"},{"start":27841.785,"end":27863.855,"text":"就是現在已經三個月了那規劃大概是我們現在規劃差不多因為不只是世嘉包括特別是西部的非常多的這些作物我們同步在做檢討檢討完了以後我們在年底的時候就會公告新的一個辦法我們是不是可以將你們目前已經規劃的資料也跟北西方這邊聯繫一下"},{"start":27864.795,"end":27883.255,"text":"很抱歉的 我想我們在整個完成的時候我們才會對外公告在這個之前也不方便我們可以跟委員討論就沒問題OK好 部長你知道本席的意思其實你們都很了解每年都是遇到一樣的情況我知道我們對香蕉我都希望它那個安全性"},{"start":27884.435,"end":27890.139,"text":"我們那個已經有補助了那個桿子我覺得要加強上次院長在台東的時候對鳳梨思佳的資助那個都有做補助本席有兩點建議"},{"start":27899.124,"end":27926.93,"text":"第一個就是說我們要放寬現行天然災害救助上限的規定我們得以因應極端的氣候專案認定重災區的天然災害的救助次數的上限我們把它放寬來幫助農民渡過難關第二個就是我們要因應物價還有產業成本的上漲調高天然災害的救助金額來保障農民的基本的生計然後這邊也請院長來承諾也責成我們農業部在兩週內趕快把一份報告給本席辦公室"},{"start":27927.21,"end":27949.56,"text":"我是不是可以跟委員說明您這兩個元的就是我們在做這個天然災害救助的辦法的一個調整但是我剛才說了天然災害辦法的調整我們大概會在年底之前大概12月初我們就會公告然後不要說兩個禮拜就給你因為我們包括了所有的作物要一起時間差不多現在在兩個禮拜差不多部長這部分再請跟辦公室這邊聯繫"},{"start":27950.836,"end":27977.184,"text":"那最後一個就是要來為台東的私家農請命就是去年中國大陸也取消了台灣私家零關稅的這個政策那我覺得這個一定會影響到台東整個私家的這個銷售量那加上今年石器可能會大出因為照這個情況沒有風災的情況下十二月份到一月初會有私家會大出藉此這些農民的薪水該怎麼辦雖然台東縣很積極的在推廣這個通路但是關稅的問題"},{"start":27979.195,"end":27990.304,"text":"你要怎麼樣解決世嘉的穩定產量要怎麼維護你要怎麼輔導農民讓他能夠有轉做的方式我想中央必須要有更多的作為因為時間的關係我想這部分也請農業部將你們將討論的結果來跟本席這邊來報告"},{"start":28019.867,"end":28025.569,"text":"謝謝黃建斌委員質詢麻煩請行政院將黃建斌委員索取的資料送到研究室好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":28027.119,"end":28040.671,"text":"接下來登記第17位高金素美委員之質詢改書面請行政院書面答覆我們並列入紀錄刊登公報在接下來本日最後一位質詢委員我們請賴慧瑋委員請質詢謝謝主席有請那個院長還有農業部部長再請卓院長農業部長備詢"},{"start":28063.786,"end":28070.822,"text":"艾委員好是 院長院長 非常感謝10月28號宣布就是在丹納斯颱風"},{"start":28071.755,"end":28095.185,"text":"就是所有的這個災民加碼兩萬塊的一個決定這個對台南鄉親來講是及時宜比這個一萬塊那個就是普發現金的一萬塊對我們來講更有效可是在這裡要跟院長做一個探討就是說在台南市造冊的這些災民那我們造冊的大概有46801那這個煤盒就是屋頂"},{"start":28100.067,"end":28117.282,"text":"修繕已經就是說透過我們中央的一個協助修繕完成了大概已經有1022那剩下的剩下的這些鄉親他可能存在的一些就是說年紀比較大的他不會上網的"},{"start":28117.842,"end":28133.627,"text":"還有就是說在修繕的這段時間他非常的一個忙碌所以他沒有辦法去區公所登記的這些人有沒有機會就是說可以協助這個讓他們這個兩萬塊讓他們是在這個造冊的名單裡面謝謝文官心這個方式的對象"},{"start":28140.615,"end":28165.924,"text":"是對於那些自行修繕者他如果當時已經經過政府跟他們的媒合有幫他修繕了或者是經過這些社會的一些公益團體有去任養的或是像政府已經全額幫他完成修繕了這個要先排除在外因為我們已經進到了幫他總整家園那其他自己修繕了也許他已經修繕也許他沒有修繕我們認為在這個時候也因為"},{"start":28168.465,"end":28183.567,"text":"社會各界的善款我們累積起來怎麼去處理還有應該把它盡快的把它善款發放所以我們有這樣的2萬塊對這些自行修善的受災的居民再給他多一點點的重整家園的補助"},{"start":28184.778,"end":28198.709,"text":"所以院長我現在講說撇除這些人以外就是說還有其實還存在的一些就是災民這些人有沒有機會就是說他重新再到區公所登記然後我們也是補他兩萬塊"},{"start":28201.017,"end":28225.895,"text":"剛剛講的那一段是因為他已經有登記在案了所以我們就直接入他的帳其他的部分到底是什麼樣態地方政府應該有一個整理到底是什麼樣態當初如果是面積比較小的地方政府也補了一部分後來我們也加了那還有些什麼樣但是當初沒有登記的這個我沒有辦法在這裡做了解委員可以提供我們可以進一步去了解跟地方政府來做整理"},{"start":28226.035,"end":28242.61,"text":"那我把這個資料給院長那就是說我們希望就是說這一個補助這個補助就是我們希望不是說有人領到而已我們是希望所有受災的人都可以領到這個另外的這個兩萬塊那事後我把這個資料"},{"start":28243.571,"end":28273.011,"text":"那個再給院長再來就是說也謝謝跟部長跟那個部長感謝這個在這一次的揮州豬瘟那個事實上就是說在整個重塑重塑這個15天的一個風土那事實上今天已經開始了就是這個屠宰那也恢復了這個拍賣那顯然今天的價錢看起來部長好像還不錯你有把它撐住了"},{"start":28274.612,"end":28296.282,"text":"我剛剛還第一次看到委員最近以來的第一次面帶一點微笑面帶一點輕鬆的微笑我剛剛還謝謝部長的辛苦事實上我們也非常非常的害怕我跟委員報告就是到了4點半左右的時候現在整個租價最高到112然後有單資的到118、120那不要講那大概平均大概將近101左右"},{"start":28298.792,"end":28309.462,"text":"在雲林它到了112可是在我們台南其實才90幾塊95、96可是普通現在最大的一個困難要跟你們探討的就是說你補助已經上來了顯然一隻豬它其實成本要7千塊這7千塊的時候你一隻補助"},{"start":28322.014,"end":28341.776,"text":"一個是三百塊一個八百一十塊有吃飯跟吃飼料這個是有一個差異性這個補助遠遠是不足的那你看我要跟委員報告我們是補助他這個十五天的他不能他置留在豬場不能上市的這十五天的飼料的一個費用"},{"start":28342.416,"end":28356.46,"text":"當然 你看嘛 他一個 他吃了一斤的飼料要18塊嘛所以你一隻豬 每天就要多吃了500塊錢沒有啦 沒有那麼多啦有啦 我跟你講喔沒有關係 我們會後再來討論我們會後再來討論一隻豬 現在市價這樣 要跟議長報告一隻豬 都市價差了84公斤 85公斤好"},{"start":28364.602,"end":28389.393,"text":"15天我們現在要來探討的就是說補助這另外一個議題我們再討論那當然大家共體時間那問題就是說這個我們看到了農業部徐牧師提出來的一個資料就是從今天開始到明年的3月你每天要給台2千架差不多3千3千左右3千你要去化這39萬頭豬"},{"start":28392.094,"end":28411.004,"text":"你有沒有想到這些問題所以說這是豬籠比較擔心的我們現在滯留總共39萬隻35到39萬隻那我們現在正在統計我如果在非常短的時間是進不到市場的那進到市場的時候因為第一個屠宰量的問題每天的屠宰量我們必須考慮"},{"start":28411.764,"end":28434.706,"text":"第二個每天的拍賣量我們要考慮那第三個部分就是說當量太多的時候那個價格是撐不住的所以我們現在就是有一個有次序的一個把毛豬上市經過登記的方式我跟你講 部長你已經講到了這一個問題了萬一豬價崩盤的話如果你用這樣的一個消化方式的話其實是我們是擔心的"},{"start":28435.495,"end":28455.207,"text":"你要殺豬 有這個豬 這個是冷凍豬的話有沒有地方放 當然是有地方放你不管是台塘還是各大的一個畜牧冷凍場我跟委員報告 就是說我們有一部分的豬是直接拉到屠宰場不經過批發的那過去是15% 我們會做一個調整"},{"start":28457.789,"end":28471.241,"text":"我們要維持批發價的部分如果價格低到某個程度的時候我們會請冷凍這些廠商進來拉租所以我們會去撐住一些基本的價格價錢低到什麼樣的程度你會出來復盤你今天有沒有復盤我們現在沒辦法說這個"},{"start":28473.923,"end":28494.942,"text":"沒有 你一定要給我們一個底線大概在哪裡嗎就像說你會告訴我說我維持在90塊還是95塊左右還是95塊以下你總是要讓大家有一個心理準備我現在沒辦法講這個因為我們在做價格的監控的部分你現在沒有辦法講私底下可以不可以讓我知道也沒辦法"},{"start":28495.362,"end":28513.649,"text":"也沒辦法那這樣子的話我們全部的一個計畫都是在沒有辦法掌控當中那萬一我們的租價崩盤的話怎麼辦呢這是憑國企方法我跟威安報告我跟威安報告我們每一天全國的國內有20個20個肉品市場"},{"start":28514.349,"end":28526.845,"text":"那個拍賣價我們一直在監控那如果說有適當的相關的這些不正常的下跌的時候你要想想到39萬頭豬他這個你不殺他的話他會越吃越大這大隻的有兩種介紹"},{"start":28534.781,"end":28552.45,"text":"有報告委員 農業部未來幾個月他都有依靠標準的去化量顯然就是現在就是在跟你探討這個去化量其實是被養豬協會存疑的 我們擔心的院長我是收醫師 所以我對這一個"},{"start":28555.431,"end":28574.577,"text":"領域裡頭我多多少少有一些了解所以我擔心這39萬頭豬你用五個月來去化的話我跟你講這個市場會亂掉我跟委員報告我們這樣一個操作的方式是跟所有的養豬協會這邊來討論然後我們也跟冷凍工會來討論我們也跟肉品市場來討論每個禮拜都有一個供銷的調度會議"},{"start":28580.18,"end":28596.457,"text":"所以會隨時調整嗎對 這個一定是滾動調整的我想這個滾動的調整可是我還是希望就是說這個租價可以維持在110 120因為你租期越大你不知道要怎麼樣你知道嗎這個是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":28597.578,"end":28620.551,"text":"在這次的災情我們看到另外一個問題就是說以我們台南來講的話我有60萬頭豬可是顯然就是說這種豬舍過於老舊開放式的豬舍太多了比例太多了所以就是說在這裡要跟院長跟部長拜託是不是有辦法啟動就是2021年開始你們有提出了一個"},{"start":28622.752,"end":28636.24,"text":"計劃47億的一個水聯市互壓水聯市的這個計劃有辦法這個其實是做得很好了是不是再重新啟動我們也持續一直在輔導我們的養豬社去改進水聯市的這個部分"},{"start":28636.88,"end":28661.447,"text":"那這個我想我們的計畫在未來幾年我們都會持續讓它做一個更精進趁著這個重大的一個這個非洲豬瘟其實非洲豬瘟如果不是廚藝的養豬的話其實很難會去發生非洲豬瘟我想這個部長你來行你很了解那我們是不是要趁著這一個時候就是說我們把這一個廚藝的養豬做一個什麼樣的一個精進"},{"start":28664.927,"end":28689.688,"text":"我跟你們報告 廚餘養豬的部分我們有短中長期的規劃短期之內要恢復的時候我們有一些前提包括這些監控的設備一定要及時而不是用上傳照片的中長期的部分我們就會考慮整體國內的這些廚餘怎麼樣再利用達到一個環境也比較穩定的情況所以短中長期我想我們隨時再滾動跟環境部再一起檢討"},{"start":28690.669,"end":28709.052,"text":"我想再一次就是說從這一次回收豬瘟到底這個豬瘟的病毒它是從哪邊來是境外的一個感染還是包裹還是移工現在我們顯然你們沒有給我們答案這個是我們一直迫切需要答案的那我也希望就是說"},{"start":28709.793,"end":28731.55,"text":"可以因為台中市每一天每一天他給的這個記者會那還是說他所有的一個新聞稿我們看不到這一個答案所以我想在這裡也提醒部長還有就是在未來未來就是說第二次萬一有破口的話第二次我們怎麼樣去維持處理這個也是大家擔心的這次這個案例場跟關聯場的關係連結起來我們清楚的看到"},{"start":28738.996,"end":28748.305,"text":"問題出在這個處於該徵組未徵組該查核未查核 該監控未查核所以一定要短期間內如果要有條件的恢復的話"},{"start":28750.606,"end":28770.577,"text":"這個設備監控跟法規加嚴處罰這一定要完備再來我們現在內部就這個案例場已經控制在單一的案例場上面但是我們還要加強的是不會再有從邊境進來的所以明天我們會去看邊境的管理我希望從內而外把它再做安全的檢查一次只有更趨嚴絕對不會放鬆"},{"start":28772.742,"end":28789.405,"text":"院長 我想這個整個養豬產業是關係到全台灣這個周邊的一個產業的兩千多億如果你還要讓廚藝這八趴的廚藝繼續就是說讓它變成是一個養豬的養豬每天達到三個條件而且地方政府要努力它才能夠維持但這幾天的豬的去化會變成一個環境部很大的課程"},{"start":28804.426,"end":28832.792,"text":"谢谢赖会员委员的咨询谢谢卓院长 农业部长 贝勋谢谢卓院会我们本日排定咨询的委员均已经咨询询答完毕非常谢谢卓院长及相关部会首长列席来答询也谢谢王洪威委员王振旭委员沈伯扬委员一起参与我们今天的咨询11月11号星期二上午9点我们继续开会进行经济组织咨询现在休息好 谢谢卓院长"}]}},{"id":"165184","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165184","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f0f533c8b396e4324dda8d1794993bca446b82e240629b5e2aa637cdb474afce8b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"09:10:39 - 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一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了這又是動物的悲劇剛剛我講的兩起事件一個是人"},{"start":486.91,"end":502.756,"text":"是獸醫的悲劇第二個是動物的一個悲劇我想很多的公職的基層的獸醫師同樣也處在這種邊緣崩潰的狀況之下我想真正能夠留在所謂的公職體系的公職獸醫師"},{"start":504.416,"end":514.324,"text":"剛剛有說全台灣有五千多人的獸醫師真正能夠留在公職基層的體系的獸醫師是不到一千人那現在可能農業部長你可能會說不會我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師我們有給獎金對不對"},{"start":519.528,"end":535.494,"text":"好問題來了6月1號之後原本我們希望最需要基層的獸醫師的人力是要補在對的地方但6月1號我們打開了大門我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人要做白臉好我們農"},{"start":537.715,"end":560.727,"text":"還有農林漁業還有很多包含所謂的醫藥上的機構這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多或者是說壓力沒有那麼大那現在也導致了在現場在職業的獸醫師人也會往那個地方流去所以我們打開了大門之後我想請問的"},{"start":561.707,"end":586.909,"text":"到底我們的公職獸醫師有沒有資源人力投對地方還是投錯的地方如果投錯的地方我們怎麼補救因為我們現場其實面臨到他們的所謂的值等是比較低他們等於是要碰到疫情發生的時候他叫不動其他的單位他們是二級的單位這個狀況我們怎麼解請教一下農業部部長"},{"start":588.31,"end":605.746,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心有關於這個相關的一個議題那我想這次在中央應變中心其實我也看到了非常多特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師我覺得他們真的是累爆了那我們雖然說有一些不開業獎金但是獎金"},{"start":606.807,"end":624.719,"text":"並不足以讓他支持在這個工作上的一個熱忱所以其實我在同時的時候就已經啟動了就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師本身的他在不同的地方政府的安置像在動物松羅所裡面大概有148位但是這148位"},{"start":626.88,"end":643.881,"text":"他們可能一個禮拜要工作七天隨時待命這個量就太少了相對的就是說你要去處理你剛才講的動物進來以後的一些基本處置人力不夠的事下可能做了一些比較緊急的處置的時候就會造成一些爭議這個部分其實我們已經列入"},{"start":644.562,"end":671.324,"text":"要整體的從全台灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看說我們應該再增加還有相關的配置後續我想會跟人種這邊來看看說怎麼樣因為防疫不只是這個動物我想人力的資源我們要用對地方我們不要讓這個所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫房檢的人力又不足同時在公職尤其是基層的這個公職的獸醫師在收容所當中他們其實是孤立無援的"},{"start":671.664,"end":691.618,"text":"如果讓整個所有的體系是跟制度其實是完全脫節的我想他們最後有可能這些所謂的特約獸醫師變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具您認同嗎現在看起來是這樣所以我覺得在整個的這些獸醫師本身特約獸醫師本身應該有一個更明確的規範"},{"start":692.932,"end":721.283,"text":"好 因為時間的關係我只剩下兩分鐘不到了那我想再接著下來我想要提到的就是前一陣子我想兩個多禮拜之前這個人人犬社謝信獸醫師他所經營的他有特寵症喔有特寵症都出事了那沒有特寵症的思煩的問題那個又是另外一趴非常大塊的一個問題喔那我想從人人犬社的一個世界我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂為什麼我這樣講二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在"},{"start":722.543,"end":734.253,"text":"到一直現在我們還是發現而且更惡質的是這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業他把他的整個所有的狗場273隻的狗狗全部去除了聲帶那後來變成272隻為什麼有一隻是死掉了"},{"start":740.458,"end":767.932,"text":"其中有90幾隻他是年紀超過7歲以上的是不能再生產當生產工具的老狗那當然這個苗栗縣政府因為抵不住所謂的輿論的一些壓力對這位獸系醫師的狗場開罰了480萬9千多元那當然還要依照所謂的他利用他自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分我們可能之後還是會持續的追蹤但是但是我發現"},{"start":768.772,"end":797.371,"text":"我們有一個很大的一個漏洞就是獸醫師法當中很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師的執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理的制度這個部分我們是不是來往這個方向再繼續的努力再繼續的研議還有寵物晶片的問題的追蹤這又是另外一趴非常大的一個問題今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘"},{"start":798.972,"end":801.795,"text":"謝謝國務卿委員的所取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室謝謝國務卿委員 謝謝卓院長 相關部委書長接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員 質詢已書面提出"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":328,"blocks":[["郭委員昱晴：（15時29分）謝謝主席，有請院長跟農業部部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、農業部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["郭委員昱晴：院長好、兩位好。我想先請教一下院長的感想，今天早上NCC人事同意權又全數被封殺、全部被杯葛，這已經是延宕多時了，你對這樣的結果有什麼樣的感想？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院感到非常的遺憾，NCC（通傳會）是一個獨立機關，在專業學識與實務經驗上，我們在這個領域找了各方人才當作被提名人進來讓大院行使同意權，未來通傳會是要促進媒體自主，對於廣電衛星內容、人事、制度等各種管理都必須要它來從事，而且很重要的，對內容的管理還有對兒童安全、兒少安全。大院也一直希望行政院儘速送出人選，可是我們送出來了，卻連一個都沒有，難道他們4位一無是處嗎？難道所有投反對票的委員沒有一個人稍微動心嗎？結果是黨意凌駕一切，如果是這樣的結果，讓我們看到只有在野黨的人選才會被通過，行政院提出的人選一定被封殺，那未來中選會我們想尋求的合作模式要在什麼樣的信任基礎下來從事呢？未來中選會我們提出的人選，各方來建議的人選，我們送出來了，只有在野黨的會通過，行政院的被封殺，像今天這個樣子，那會造成歷史的大錯，誰都不敢冒這個風險。所以今天讓我們看到完全沒有誠信，完全沒有合作基礎，我非常非常的遺憾，不要說行政院沒有遞出橄欖枝，我把整個橄欖園的一半都遞出來了，結果沒有得到任何善意的回應，我覺得這個是要讓我們重新思考未來合作的模式。"],["郭委員昱晴：我想這個結果其實大家都不樂見，因為有許多重要的業務其實也被完全的停擺當中。","進入到我今天想要質詢農業部的主題，在這裡還是要給農業部還有中央，以及第一線防檢同仁肯定跟鼓勵，你們在最短的時間及時危機處理，拆彈成功，但是對於這次非洲豬瘟的部分來說是一個階段性的成功，要給你們更多的支持與鼓勵。","其實這次非洲豬瘟事件當然也凸顯了一個問題，也就是全臺灣總共大概有5,000位獸醫師，而真正守在畜牧現場的特約獸醫師，包含所謂的醫師佐，大概只有5.75%，只有352人。其實他們要管理很多、很多，包含三、四十間的農場或者是牧場，另外，他們一個人可能要負責上萬隻動物，像這次非洲豬瘟這樣子的狀況之下，最終有可能都會變成是飼主或者是移工，或者是他們直接請醫事佐來做投藥的動作，我想這凸顯了當動物的疾病沒有被專業的診斷跟通報，那麼防疫跟食安就會成為一個非常大的隱憂，這也是這次非洲豬瘟給我們的警訊。我想法律有明文規定牧場一定要有所謂的特約獸醫師，但是問題是大部分都只是掛名，政府沒有一個查核的機制，我們怎麼知道這些特約獸醫師他們的巡訪、巡查有沒有被落實？","而更深層的就是教育上的問題，我所謂教育上的問題，因為有很多受到獸醫教育的人才，他們可能畢了業之後，他們希望能夠往都市從業，都是從事所謂臨床寵物的行業，所以真正願意留在牧場的人是少之又少，為什麼？因為工作環境不佳，再加上他們的薪水其實是低的，我看到有一個粉專在披露所謂的特約獸醫師，他管一個豬農的場域三萬六，三萬六不是一個月，三萬六是一年，一年3萬6,000元，這樣子的誘因這麼低，我們怎麼能夠留得住人才，這是一個問題。我看到這是第一個防線，有那個防線，但是這個防線到底是虛的、是空的，還是實的？其實是值得我們去深思。第二條其實即將崩潰的一個防線就在於全臺的防治所跟動保處的基層獸醫師、這些公職獸醫師，為什麼我要這麼講？因為他們可能要負責所謂路倒的動物、路殺的動物，他可能還要負責檢疫工作，他可能還面臨要去評估人道安樂這樣的措施的同時，他要背負很多的社會輿論壓力以及人情世故，在評估的同時，他沒有時間，在時間緊迫、人力需求完全匱乏的情況之下，有可能就會發生悲劇。我要提的是2016年在新屋收容所一線的簡姓獸醫師自殺事件，在遺書當中他特別寫到，末端的資源、人力不足，源頭的管理、管制工作沒有辦法做好，流浪動物在最下游的收容所都是一場苦難，這是他遺書上寫的，這點出什麼樣的問題？很多人說他們是一線正在殺動物的人，但是很少人知道他們在面臨沒有人力、沒有資源、沒有心理支援的狀況下，每天可能要面對很多的生死，他們也被迫在這樣的體制缺口當中做最難的決定，這是一點。","另外一個動物的悲劇是，我不曉得部長有沒有看到，前一陣子有一個民眾去檢舉，嘉義市有一隻被通報為飼主不當飼養的老狗，他隔籠跟這隻老狗做互動，他通報地方動保處，動保處隨即將這隻狗沒入，你知道狗狗其實有自己本身的防衛天性，牠被人捕捉到陌生的地方，牠一定會呲牙裂嘴、牠一定會吠叫，即使牠已經是十幾歲的老狗，但是牠長期被虐待，等到這位檢舉人第二天到動保處要去領養這隻狗時，這隻狗在前一天當下被捕捉進所時就已經被安樂了。我想這凸顯的第二個問題就是我剛剛所說的，他們沒有時間去做所謂的人道處理，在時間緊迫之下，做出了有爭議性的行為，我們沒有要檢討這位一線的獸醫師，我想基層的公職獸醫師已經承受了太大的壓力，但我們要討論的是整個制度背後的缺口，誰要來補？我想在沒有足夠時間能夠判斷的情況之下，做出這樣一個令人遺憾的決定，導致這隻老狗原本是可以有幸福的機會，雖然非常渺茫，但牠卻在前一天被捕捉入所的時候就已經被安樂了，這又是動物的悲劇。","剛剛我講的兩起事件，一個是人、是獸醫的悲劇，第二個是動物的悲劇，我想很多基層的公職獸醫師同樣也處在這種崩潰邊緣的狀況之下，而真正能夠留在所謂公職體系的公職獸醫師，剛剛有說全臺灣有五千多位獸醫師，真正能夠留在公職體系的基層獸醫師是不到一千人。農業部長你可能會說：不會，我們現在有獎勵這些不開業的醫師，我們有給獎金。對不對？好，問題來了，6月1號之後，原本我們希望基層的獸醫師人力是要補在對的地方，但6月1號我們打開了大門，我相信農業部當然不希望做壞人，要做白臉，我們的農林漁業還有包含很多所謂的醫藥機構，這些被認為所謂的公部門可能事情沒有那麼多，或者是壓力沒有那麼大，現在也導致在現場執業的獸醫師也會往那個地方流去，所以我們打開了大門之後，我想請問的是，到底我們有沒有將公職獸醫師的資源、人力投對地方，還是投錯了地方，如果投錯了地方，我們怎麼補救？他們所面臨到的情況是職等比較低，等於是碰到疫情發生時，它叫不動其他單位，因為他們是二級的單位，這個狀況我們怎麼解？請教一下農業部部長。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員關心相關的議題，我想這次在中央應變中心，其實我也看到了非常多，特別在第一線的這些防疫人員跟獸醫師，我覺得他們真的是累爆了。我們雖然有不開業獎金，但是獎金並不足以支持他在這個工作上的熱忱……"],["郭委員昱晴：是。"],["陳部長駿季：所以我同時啟動了相關機制，就是我們要重新檢討獸醫師在不同地方的政府安置，像在動物收容所裡面大概有148位，但是這148位……"],["郭委員昱晴：他們可能一個禮拜要工作7天，隨時待命！"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個量就太少了。相對的，要去處理你剛才講到這些動物進來以後的一些基本處置，在人力不夠的情況之下，可能做一些比較緊急的處置時就會造成一些爭議。這個部分其實我們已經列入要整體從全臺灣的這些獸醫師裡面去看看，我們應該再增加還有相關的配置，後續我想會跟人總這邊來看看怎麼樣，因為防疫不只是動物還有其他的。"],["郭委員昱晴：我想人力資源要用對地方，我們不要讓所謂的經濟動物沒有獸醫，防檢的人力又不足，同時在公職方面，尤其基層的公職獸醫師在收容所當中其實是孤立無援的，如果讓所有的體系跟制度完全脫節，我想最後這些所謂的特約獸醫師有可能變成地方政府甩鍋最好的工具，您認同嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：現在看起來是這樣子，所以我覺得在特約獸醫師方面應該有一個更明確的規範。"],["郭委員昱晴：因為時間的關係，我只剩下2分鐘不到。再接著下來我想要提到的就是，前一陣子、兩個多禮拜之前，關於謝姓獸醫師所經營的人人犬舍，它有特種證喔，有特種證都出事了，那沒有特種證的私繁問題又是另外一部分非常大塊的問題！","我想從人人犬舍的事件我們看到的是動保體系的斷裂，為什麼我這樣講？二十幾年前我在關心動保的時候這個問題就存在，一直到現在我們還是發現，而且更惡質的是，這位謝姓獸醫師利用他自己本身的專業，他把整個狗場的273隻狗狗全部去除聲帶，後來變成272隻，為什麼？有1隻死掉了。其中有九十幾隻年紀超過7歲以上是不能再當生產工具的老狗！苗栗縣政府因為抵不住輿論壓力對這位獸醫師的狗場開罰了四百八十萬九千多元；而針對他利用自己的職權有沒有虐待動物之實這個部分，我們之後還是會持續追蹤。","但是我發現我們有一個很大的漏洞就在獸醫師法當中，很多人說他有所謂的獸醫師執照卻沒有辦法取消他的獸醫師執照，我們的獸醫師法居然漏掉了這個非常大塊的倫理制度，這個部分我們是不是往這個方向再繼續努力、再繼續研議？還有寵物晶片的追蹤問題，這又是另外一部分非常大的問題。","今天我只剩下最後的5秒鐘，我再次懇請農業部……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員長期對動保議題的關心，你剛剛提到獸醫師合理的退場機制，我會請相關單位來研議。"],["郭委員昱晴：我們繼續加油，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好！"],["郭委員昱晴：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝，郭昱晴委員索取的資料請農業部送郭委員的研究室，謝謝郭昱晴委員、謝謝卓院長與相關部會首長。","接下來登記第12位邱志偉委員的質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員邱志偉書面質詢："],["主席：再接下來我們請謝龍介委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}},{"id":"165187","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165187","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f0bcbbb66566f42b12da8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad873ef82c2ad75f039eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"15:18:01 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台灣已久市場大概有兩千億的規模"},{"start":252.953,"end":279.079,"text":"現在加熱於推估的話至少500億元未來有機會抗上千億但是現在只會被美日的長徒戰台灣的加熱於沒有機會加速降生我為什麼點這個問題因為目前全世界只有美國跟台灣要求加熱於上市前要提供健康風險的評估"},{"start":280.973,"end":308.546,"text":"但是日本沒有喔日本上市也沒有說要提健康風險的評估喔所以目前因為餘壓防止法規定我們製造外銷也要經過台灣的健康風險的評估這樣的規範看起來我們很謙博我們很謙高我們道德很高我們台灣的廠商旁手旁腳也限制我們台灣加熱魚的外銷機會"},{"start":310.247,"end":320.493,"text":"我跟部長 院長如果這個人開玩笑以臺灣製造能力達上千億五千億美金不以來電子產業你們永遠繼續這樣現在臺灣政府沒有把儀品"},{"start":327.093,"end":347.962,"text":"就是現在的加熱鹽當作產業在看待所以目前每日都是在台灣的市場佔有最高齡外面怎麼傳輸要給他抽習慣油市場就是他的你不知道這裡的生意人這裡美國人這裡日本人我要求該要求我們台灣的政府你們就來配合他們怎麼做"},{"start":349.778,"end":360.653,"text":"連邦和臺灣依舊的攤檔市長也很無奈他說我是政府主派的 我不能講話你看有比亞的嗎 哪裡有這樣的政府不然我們給他特別提出來我們現在"},{"start":364.164,"end":392.873,"text":"目前換算台灣的加熱衣外銷加熱衣的製作有很多是含有電子科技的含量記不記得含有很多電子科技的含量在我們台灣的電子業很厲害我們台灣的電子業很強烈我們應該幫助你你台灣不同意沒關係我們自己去外銷我們自己來發表我們自己來爭取市場我們現在政府偶像不通"},{"start":394.315,"end":415.7,"text":"美國就有可以進來日本就要設限條件要保持臺灣家的情形你們的政府配合那些觀念我不再講話了這拍天啊真的所以我在這 我要拜託說現行的醫藥房子規範製造外銷要經過"},{"start":418.4,"end":438.954,"text":"臺灣的健康風險評估我敢把你放寬如果我支持的國家是同意的話你就讓我做外銷嗎可憐的臺灣人真的是雲木明子沒在臺灣生工花費我們的電子業你們竟然擋得嚴嚴密密那什麼我是老實人"},{"start":440.06,"end":455.161,"text":"我了解產業這個產業未來很重要可以變成國際性的產業不要頭腦每天想電子什麼的這個是全世界通用它不亞於電子產品的產量"},{"start":456.062,"end":459.083,"text":"我要希望這件事你聽到這邊我跟你說我跟你說"},{"start":480.285,"end":509.356,"text":"台酒公司他要加油政府的立場希望台酒公司加油加油之後第四個我們尊重國健署這個專業委員會在健康風險評估之後的專業的審查結果我問了你通過了那個健康風險評估好你美國日本給我們參考拿不出來不敢拿出來這是酷刑的所在"},{"start":510.427,"end":530.864,"text":"他們先去我們台灣來學習這個我會請衛福部進行一部瞭解沒有 把他講的標準你不敢去求台灣人因為我跟你說 我想要講的是不是很客氣啊引用的資料跟標準應該國內國外都要一致在這裡我是拜託你不能這樣子兩套的標準沒有要一致 我在美國人日本人你腳整個都軟了"},{"start":533.46,"end":554.537,"text":"對台灣怎麼苛責,這是我們的本領我還說這個一個大行業嘛我相信台灣做出來比美國、日本還要好已經做出來了每次送繩都不夠,不講理由就推薦了哪裡有這麼爛的政府,每天要求台灣人我真的講,你還不注意,國務部長,這個是產業"},{"start":561.818,"end":590.278,"text":"大家說說消瀉 大家自得其樂不是不是 這個審查其實還是為無辜專家在審查你換到農業部長上來一下麻煩請農業部長備詢一定 一定 這個要好好研究這台灣有辦法做出世界第一的好的產品一定因為我們台灣的電子業 科技業 金融那個裡面跟它有關係好的 你不管是冷液還是要熱的都有關係這是台灣的專長"},{"start":591.758,"end":605.201,"text":"美國人會過 日本人不會過臺灣的科技那麼強 不能夠我們求行 這個我要拜託一下我是不憑責命啊好不好 因為時間的關係那我地方的建設大溪谷計畫我一直講下去 廣布長"},{"start":612.731,"end":634.365,"text":"你跟我講要有 你從國發會行政院秘書長 現在政府部長我講了幾十四五年了 你們那樣跟那樣沒有關係一樣嘴巴講得甜言蜜語 背後都不動作我不會說你背後插刀啦 都不動作啦這個給我講一下啦還有我們國發會的主委 你別起來別起來別起來我跟你們說 你們這樣就知道"},{"start":640.168,"end":662.319,"text":"好 我農業部的話舉個出來好 陳超明委員索取的資料麻煩請行政院送到陳超明委員研究室謝謝陳超明委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":667.725,"end":679.822,"text":"好 接下來報議院會 我們一場二樓來旁邊來自北一女中的同學我們掌聲歡迎啊 棟樑 未來的棟樑接下來我們請郭育群委員質詢謝榮介委員 請準備"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":280,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（15時18分）主席好，院長好，首先有請行政院卓院長還有經濟部龔部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、經濟部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["龔部長明鑫：陳委員好。"],["陳委員超明：卓院長好，龔部長好。首先，我要請卓院長跟龔部長好好看這個主題：以臺灣產業經濟發展的角度，讓臺灣加熱菸去打世界市場，但是我們希望執政黨不能亦不行：寧與外人、不與家僕（家奴）。這句話很重要，我為什麼會寫「家奴」？因為臺灣人是為了臺灣這塊土地做牛做馬，才有今天經濟的繁榮發展。可能你們覺得不重要，但是我今天特別請經濟部長注意這個產業，現在最熱門的話題就是臺灣目前開放加熱菸的兩間公司分別是日本跟美國廠商，美國的加熱菸進口是跟我們的7-ELEVEN連線，日本是跟全家連線。這裡面發生了一個非常重要的問題，當時送件審查的時候，臺灣菸酒公司和臺灣有兩、三家公司都去送審，但是在送審的過程不斷被要求補件。臺灣目前只能買到日本的加熱菸、美國的加熱菸，臺灣自己產的加熱菸只聞樓梯響，從來沒有看到人下樓，一直、一直在補件，所以臺灣現在變成日本和美國加熱菸的殖民地。龔部長，我強調這是一個產業。","再來，這裡面的過程，臺灣自產的加熱菸最大的問題在哪一個地方？國健署規範的健康風險評估沒有標準可循，我也接到這些廠商的請託，我也請教過國健署，風險評估裡面動物臨床實驗的規模及標準是怎樣，完全不曉得，我用紅字特別點出來，完全不曉得！我請教，這樣業者要如何提供健康風險評估報告去申請？那些審查委員又是如何完成審查？院長，這是很重要的事情，這幾項你們要了解我用詞的用意在哪裡，我不要讓你們太沒面子。而且美國和日本通過審查，你就應該公布它的健康風險評估報告，讓我們全民檢驗，不是政府在那邊替美國廠商、日本廠商在遮遮掩掩，外面大家都說這是大的黑箱作業，臺灣很可憐，只有日本和美國可以，臺灣人都不行。","我也跟院長、部長報告，臺灣菸品市場大概有2,000億的規模，現在加熱菸推估至少500億元，未來有機會上看千億，但是現在只會被美日廠商獨占，臺灣的加熱菸沒有機會加入競爭。我為什麼點出這個問題？因為目前全世界只有美國和臺灣要求加熱菸上市前要提供健康風險評估，但是日本沒有，日本上市也沒有說要提供健康風險評估。所以目前因為菸害防制法規定，我們製造外銷也要經過臺灣的健康風險評估，這樣的規範看起來我們很進步、很清高，我們道德很高，但是卻讓我們臺灣的廠商綁手綁腳，也限制臺灣加熱菸的外銷機會。我跟部長、院長報告，如果這個能開放外銷，以臺灣製造能力可達上千億、5,000億美金，不亞於電子產業，你們永遠記住這點。","現在臺灣政府沒有把菸品也就是加熱菸當作產業在看待，所以目前美日在臺灣的市場占有率最高，外面在傳說要給它抽習慣，以後市場就是它的。你不知道這些生意人、這些美國人、這些日本人有多「夭壽」，最「夭壽」的是我們臺灣政府竟然配合他們這麼做，連臺灣菸酒的湯董事長也很無奈，他說我是政府指派的，我不能講話，你看有沒有「悲哀」？哪裡有這樣的政府？","我為什麼要特別提出來？我們現在應該放寬臺灣的加熱菸外銷，加熱菸的製作有很多含有電子科技的含量，記好，含有很多電子科技的含量在，我們臺灣的電子業很強，我們臺灣不同意沒關係，我們自己去外銷、我們自己來打拚、我們自己來爭取市場。現在的政府我想不通，美國就有，可以進來，日本就有，那叫做設限條件，要綁死臺灣這些廠商，你們政府配合那些官員，我再講下去就很難聽了，真的！","所以我在這裡，我只要是拜託，現行的菸害防制法規定製造外銷要經過臺灣的健康風險評估，我覺得要把它放寬，如果輸出國家同意的話，你就讓他做外銷。可憐的臺灣人，真的是遊牧民族！想在臺灣深耕、發展加熱菸，你們竟然擋得嚴嚴密密。","院長，我是老實人，我了解產業，這個產業未來很重要，可以變成國際性的產業，不要每天頭腦只想著電子業，這個是全世界通用，它不亞於電子產品的產量，我希望這一點你要聽進去！"],["卓院長榮泰：好。委員，容許我用四點跟委員報告：第一點，在法律通過之後，加熱菸可以在國內市場上市，政府該做的是後市場的安全管理，這個我們要做好。第二點，至於他要上市經過的審查標準，國內、國外應該一致標準，不容許有不同的標準，這是第二點。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講……"],["卓院長榮泰：第三個，台酒公司要加油，政府的立場希望財政部、希望台酒公司加油，加油之後……"],["陳委員超明：你們也要加油！"],["卓院長榮泰：第四個，我們尊重國健署的專業委員會在健康風險評估之後的專業審查結果。"],["陳委員超明：院長，你都替他們說話。我問你風險評估，美國、日本過了，拿給我們參考，但是拿不出來，不敢拿出來！這就是過分的地方！"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請衛福部進一步瞭解。"],["陳委員超明：把它訂個標準，不要只欺負臺灣人！"],["卓院長榮泰：專業審查委員會所引用的資料……"],["陳委員超明：我跟你說，我現在說話算很客氣了！"],["卓院長榮泰：引用的資料跟標準，應該國內、國外都要一致。"],["陳委員超明：在這裡我要拜託，你不能用兩套的標準。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，一樣一致。"],["陳委員超明：看到美國人、日本人，你腳整個都軟了，對臺灣人就苛責，這是我們的根欸！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。跟委員報告，我一起請衛福部瞭解。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你說，這是一個大行業嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：標準只有一個，審查的結果依照專業。"],["陳委員超明：我相信臺灣做得會比美國、日本還要好，已經做出來了，每一次送審都不過，不講理由就退件了！哪裡有這麼爛的政府，只會欺負臺灣人！我真的講，你們都還沒注意到，龔部長，這個是產業欸！大家都裝瘋賣傻，每天自得其樂！好，時間的關係，我講地方的事情。"],["龔部長明鑫：不是、不是，這個審查機制還是衛福部專家在審查。"],["陳委員超明：請農業部長上來一下。"],["主席：麻煩請農業部長備詢。"],["陳委員超明：院長，這個要好好研究，臺灣是有辦法做出世界第一好的產品。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，一定。"],["陳委員超明：因為我們臺灣的電子業、科技業很強，那個裡面跟它有關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的、好的。"],["陳委員超明：不管是冷凝液，還是要熱的都有關係，這是臺灣的專長，美國人能通過、日本人能通過，臺灣的科技那麼強，卻不能通過，這會被人家取笑，這個我拜託一下，我是不平則鳴，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員提醒，我們一定馬上瞭解、要求。"],["陳委員超明：因為時間的關係，地方建設的大矽谷計畫，我一直在講，龔部長，你跟我講要有了，你從國發會、行政院秘書長，現在擔任經濟部長，我講了4、5年了，你們卻像沒有關係一樣，嘴巴講得甜言蜜語，背後都不動作。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，現在就是請……"],["陳委員超明：我不會說你是背後插刀啦！都不動作啦！這個請給我加強一下啦！還有國發會主委，你不用上台，我跟你們說後，你們這樣就知道了。農業部的話，有幾個問題……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們還是跟地方政府來溝通。"],["陳委員超明：這裡面的問題，拜託！部長，你不要只是在笑，你上一次在笑時，看起來就陰險狡猾的樣子……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們會趕快處理可行性計畫……"],["陳委員超明：再來，這裡的幾項我們再個別溝通，就拜託一下！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，沒問題。"],["主席：陳超明委員索取的資料，麻煩請行政院送到陳超明委員研究室，謝謝。謝謝陳超明委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","報告院會，在議場二樓旁聽的是來自北一女中的同學，我們掌聲歡迎未來的棟梁。","接下來請郭昱晴委員質詢，謝龍介委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}},{"id":"165186","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165186","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f08c2e26c2e6c3c84fda8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad873ef82c2ad75f039eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"15:01:44 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謝謝主席我先請行政院院長麻煩再請左院長備詢王委員好"},{"start":22.406,"end":44.138,"text":"院長好院長這兩天有一個政策出現大轉彎而且引起軒然大波就是我們的衛福部長宣布的補充保費這件事情行政院在昨天晚上緊急喊卡我想請問一下卓院長對於衛福部所"},{"start":44.858,"end":67.285,"text":"宣布的補充保費的內容跟決策你事先知道嗎還是如同媒體所報導你是看到報紙才知道跟委員報告衛福部長期以來對健保的財政要做全面的改革一直是一個很重大的對所以我也很肯定衛福部"},{"start":67.85,"end":85.968,"text":"用他各種的設算去提出未來健保財政改革的方案但是這個補充保費他所宣布的內容你事先知情嗎這個整個詳細的內容沒有到這麼詳細但我們知道比方說他把這個一千萬的門檻上限拉高到五千萬"},{"start":87.229,"end":102.224,"text":"這個部分的討論是有過的那其他也有一些討論利息鼓勵租金這個就是涉及到包含小資族跟一般的散戶的這部分的補充保費這個案子"},{"start":104.386,"end":129.597,"text":"你知情嗎是不是那媒體報導有沒有出入呢你是不是是這個想起你是在媒體看到的我們在衛福部提出的整個報告裡面我們有看到他有一份這樣的想法但是這個想法要經過嚴謹的衛福部跟行政院內部討論才會出來公告就是要聽取社會共同的意見為什麼後來突然喊卡因為包括"},{"start":130.657,"end":151.727,"text":"連衛福部都說這個案子的細節根本沒有跟金管會來溝通討論過這樣的決策模式請問院長覺得這樣可取嗎所以他並不是一個定案既定的要實施的他就是一個預告讓社會各界來提供意見"},{"start":153.207,"end":168.674,"text":"這樣引起軒然大波你會不會覺得在你們的部會之間的溝通應該要做檢討可以更好這一次的這樣的整個的大轉彎緊急喊咖院長有震怒嗎沒有"},{"start":171.735,"end":198.644,"text":"不必為這樣子震怒我要了解整個事情的來龍去脈院長其實今天我們是經濟部門的質詢但是我要講的就是政府為了這個財政收入的增加不管是健保也好或者其他也好今年其實已經有兩起這樣的事件包含之前年初的750元之亂這個其實我們之前是討論過的"},{"start":200.405,"end":217.297,"text":"就是突然這個速發部要對這個進口3C的產品要課徵750塊還有這一次的健保補充保費的部分所以院長其實老實講我不大曉得你們哪來的底氣我都覺得我要恭喜你們了"},{"start":217.817,"end":245.069,"text":"以為你的這個施政滿意度是60% 70%才會搞出這樣的一個狀況嗎所以這樣的一個政策的混亂我認為一定要避免而且涉及到民眾特別是深斗小民他們的支出或者要跟他們身上去科學也好規範也好一定要更為慎重您同意嗎兩點跟我們回報"},{"start":246.516,"end":265.608,"text":"民調再高都應該要妥善的溝通對這個民調無關第二點我在這裡都講過健保的改革是要讓高收入的國人多負擔一些沒錯這個才是大原則你們現在都是跟一般的小股民跟小資族好時間暫停一下我請一下經濟部長時間暫停麻煩請經濟部長備詢"},{"start":278.467,"end":295.479,"text":"時間繼續好 院長 經濟部長這兩天還有一個非常重大的當然外界看起來也是一個政策大轉彎但是如果轉彎的話我個人是非常肯定的卓院長曾經說非核家園是不可放棄的目標"},{"start":296.48,"end":311.69,"text":"但是大家也知道在錯誤的能源政策下大家一直都認為台灣不應該完全的摒除核電這兩天包含台電對外宣稱說核二核三有重啟的機會跟條件"},{"start":313.231,"end":329.645,"text":"好包含媒體問我們拱部長的時候呢拱部長也沒有否認這件事情但是只是說這個呢需要有啟動還是要有一些和安的檢討而且時間不一定會一樣好所以我想請教院長"},{"start":330.646,"end":354.359,"text":"在政策上現在行政院支不支持台電提供提到經濟部的有關於現在開始來評估評估何二何三長重啟的計畫行政院支持嗎在有法律的改變之後我們尊重專業的"},{"start":356.916,"end":374.791,"text":"這個分析跟科學的根據如果專業跟科學認為有重啟的可能性而且安全無虞在有法律合法的基礎底下那就請台電進行自主安全檢查的這個程序那看結果如何我們再來以最後的結果來做判斷"},{"start":375.911,"end":399.651,"text":"院長其實今天的宣誓是一個非常重大的轉換我們說整個肺核家園從今年的5月17號和珊走入歷史之後那麼當然是在這之前我們立法院就努力了推動法案以我個人而言我從我補選立委到後來的參加大選我的"},{"start":400.932,"end":427.976,"text":"問政還有我的選舉的政見都把希望爭取核二核三廠研議作為我的政見老師說今天有這樣子的一個轉圜我個人我相信我們絕大部分的企業產業還有絕大部分的國人是支持的我也要請委員也能夠支持政府多元開發多元綠能的這項政策跟努力"},{"start":428.616,"end":434.886,"text":"待會我就會談到綠的不是不支持但是不支持掏空的行為這個題我還要請教"},{"start":437.442,"end":465.514,"text":"過去為什麼要推動研議因為台電曾經評估過荷爾核三廠的研議費用研議是要有費用的分別是150億到300億但是重啟的費用當時在整個的公投的時候環團他們提出來的評估說如果核三要重啟的話那麼時間要耗費5到10年"},{"start":466.494,"end":492.694,"text":"花費的費用高達4900億元請教部長 環團這樣的說法是不是接近事實的應該不是這樣應該不是 那大概是多少重啟的費用大概是多少因為現在我們要自主檢查以後跟這個原廠評估以後才可以知道但是當然國外是有一些經驗那是不是一定會比重這個研議的費用要高"},{"start":493.554,"end":510.087,"text":"國外的重啟不會像這個右邊這樣的數字這麼高不會好但是一定會比研議高我在這邊我就必須要說因為當初評估的價錢跟現在因為現在物價上漲等等一些情況所以我要講的"},{"start":511.596,"end":539.773,"text":"重啟的成本時間成本費用成本一定會比研議要高這是必然的所以我要講就是說雖然我支持我支持我們現在和二和三開始重新的來啟動他們可以重啟的開始的評估這個程序但是因為我真的覺得我要講就是說當時我們說破嘴"},{"start":540.433,"end":554.065,"text":"核三廠在今年5月17號走入歷史短短半年之間然後我們真的覺得撐不下去了然後要現在重啟核二核三現在連核二都要重啟評估"},{"start":555.786,"end":584.266,"text":"當然我知道這個壓力很多是來自於美方最近美國有太多的智庫也好專家也好能源的相關也好或者是國安的相關也好都指出台灣能源韌性脆弱的一面所以重啟核電我相信有很多來自於美方的壓力可是錢是我們台灣老百姓出的不是嗎"},{"start":585.743,"end":591.809,"text":"早知今日 何必當初你覺得當年讓河山廠就這樣走入歷史是不是很可惜的事情河山廠5月17號他庭議是基於當時河管法40年的規定那後來經過大院把它延長了"},{"start":606.101,"end":628.368,"text":"但是我想委員我提醒在當時5月17號的那個時候我要求台電河山廠的人員不能讓他離開一定要保留在原廠裡面因為我們未來還要做很多包括河山廠的善後乃至於新的核能技術的接觸等等所以我們就是有準備當有新的核能技術的時候我們要開放態度來整個跟世界做共同討論的"},{"start":628.868,"end":645.135,"text":"我們還好啦 核二核三廠至少核二廠也沒有下核一廠把燃料棒全部都送回去了今天才有機會來做重啟那另外齁我要剛才講到綠能我們支持綠能 時間暫停一下我想也請農業部長上台時間暫停 麻煩請農業部長備詢"},{"start":657.182,"end":674.123,"text":"院長我剛才就說我不知道行政院現在還是有哪來的底氣可以做這樣政策混亂這樣的大轉彎剛才講補充保費最近還發生就是台肥董事長吳英寧人事的事件"},{"start":676.245,"end":688.032,"text":"吳英寧在公布大概兩天你們農業部還幫他保證在龐大的社會的輿論壓力之下大轉彎他當董事沒有當董事長"},{"start":689.642,"end":709.47,"text":"院長這不是第一個案例去年對不對台灣今年同樣的是發布他當董事長吳政章結果呢號稱是賴清德震怒三天下台錯誤的人士吳政章下台"},{"start":710.615,"end":739.337,"text":"另外經濟部主導成立的綠能科技的中心前執行長鄭益齡他也是去出任我們的台智電副總經理後來涉入弊案被生壓我要講的是這些重要的國營事業人士為何如此草率為何會有這樣大轉圜台北市上市公司不是國營事業"},{"start":740.049,"end":753.44,"text":"你沒有股權嗎 你的股權將近四分之一他還是上市公司跟國營事業不一樣的如果沒有農業部的支持如果沒有農業部的支持 吳亦寧可以當董事長嗎可以當董事嗎 你還好意思在這邊強辯我們推薦他 吳亦寧本身他還是國營事業本身他對農業夠了解"},{"start":766.269,"end":792.648,"text":"這些人士難道你們不應該檢討嗎你如果覺得他那麼好農業部不是肯定吳怡寧嗎你讓他當董事長啊吳怡寧本身他對農業本身的產業範疇是夠了解的我要講的是國營事業其實過去的人碧綠藍綠啊很多國營事業非常積憂但是我們現在看到的幾大國營事業"},{"start":794.144,"end":823.172,"text":"院長我不曉得你知不知道我們現在幾大台電嚴重虧損這個大家知道了中油現在也在嚴重虧損中累積有沒有虧損嗎有沒有虧損還要再強變你以為只有中油跟台電嗎台水 唐榮 台船現在通通是在虧損中我要特別講一下中鋼院長有沒有買過中鋼的股票"},{"start":823.851,"end":843.539,"text":"我到現在沒有買過任何一張股票中鋼過去是台灣的基優股以前在台積電之前很多的股民要存股要存什麼股 中鋼因為中鋼是一家基優的公司到現在股民130萬股"},{"start":845.66,"end":859.993,"text":"最近我連續參加中鋼工會兩次的記者會為什麼中鋼員工在抗議在配合政策下讓中鋼去參與了星達海基的投資綠能啊"},{"start":862.596,"end":880.39,"text":"風電基座讓中鋼一下子虧損了64億之多虧損完了我現在最近才知道喔國發基金也有投資然後還要求中鋼把國發基金的股票也把它買回去因為不要再增加國發基金的虧損了國發基金虧損也虧損累累啊"},{"start":884.932,"end":907.413,"text":"他是一塊錢買回去的不是用原價這家公司都快要倒掉了啦還要讓人家買回去股權還是有啊有啊 是啊所以怎麼樣倒逼公司讓中鋼去承受讓龐大的130萬股民去承受嗎我今天要講的是今天我們未來都會在歷史留名當年的趙鐵頭 趙耀東先生"},{"start":909.955,"end":926.865,"text":"大家抬到趙鐵頭是說他把中鋼帶得那麼好成為台灣一等一的公司結果你現在讓中鋼虧損累累院長你知道中鋼現在虧損多少嗎中鋼的虧損也有一個原因是來自中國低價鋼的競爭來取消這是其中之一所以院長以中鋼這麼好的公司"},{"start":934.309,"end":939.271,"text":"這麼好的工資啊到現在累計虧損出現了將近50億46.8億的虧損而其中投資率能慘虧64億元之多"},{"start":964.721,"end":971.828,"text":"好 谢谢好 谢谢王洪威委员的咨询谢谢卓院长相关部会首长备询谢谢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":194,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（15時2分）謝謝主席，我先請行政院院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長好。院長，這兩天有一個政策出現大轉彎，而且引起軒然大波，就是衛福部長宣布的補充保費這件事情，行政院在昨天晚上緊急喊卡。我想請問一下卓院長，對於衛福部所宣布的補充保費的內容跟決策，你事先知道嗎？還是如同媒體所報導，你是看到報紙才知道？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，衛福部長期以來對健保的財政要做全面的改革，一直是一個很重大的課題。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個方向是知道的？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，所以我也很肯定衛福部用各種設算去提出未來健保財政改革的方案。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是他所宣布的這個補充保費的內容，你事先知情嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：整個詳細的內容沒有到這麼詳細，但我們知道比方他把1,000萬的門檻上限拉高到5,000萬，這個部分的討論是有過的，其他也有一些討論，他所以公告……"],["王委員鴻薇：包括利息、股利、租金，也就是涉及小資族跟一般散戶這部分的補充保費，這個案子你知情嗎？媒體報導有沒有出入呢？這個詳情你是不是在媒體上看到的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟委員報告，在衛福部提出的整個報告裡面，我們有看到他有一份這樣的想法，但是這個想法要經過衛福部和行政院內部嚴謹的討論才會推出來，公告就是要聽取社會共同的意見。"],["王委員鴻薇：我想請問院長，這個案子為什麼後來突然喊卡？連衛福部都說這個案子的細節根本沒有跟金管會溝通討論過，這樣的決策模式，請問院長覺得可取嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以它並不是一個定案，它並不是要實施的既定政策。"],["王委員鴻薇：那他就宣布了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：它就是一個預告，讓社會各界來提供意見。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，這樣引起軒然大波，你會不會覺得你們部會之間的溝通應該要做檢討？"],["卓院長榮泰：可以更好。"],["王委員鴻薇：這一次這樣整個大轉彎、緊急喊卡，院長有震怒嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：嗯……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：不必為這樣子震怒，我要了解整個事情的來龍去脈。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這以後還會不會發生呢？其實今天我們是針對經濟部門的質詢，我要講的是，政府為了財政收入的增加，不管是健保也好或者其他也好，今年其實已經有兩起這樣的事件，包含之前年初的750元之亂，這個其實我們之前討論過，就是突然數發部要對進口的3C產品課徵750塊，還有這一次健保補充保費的部分。所以院長，老實講，我不大曉得你們哪來的底氣，我都覺得我要恭喜你們了，以為你的施政滿意度是60%、70%，才會搞出這樣的狀況嗎？所以這樣的政策混亂我認為一定要避免，而且涉及民眾、特別是升斗小民的支出，或者要從他們身上去課稅也好、收取規費也好，一定要更為慎重，您同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，兩點跟委員回報，民調再高，都應該要妥善地溝通，所以這跟民調無關。"],["王委員鴻薇：對！"],["卓院長榮泰：第二點，我在這裡都講過，健保的改革是要讓高收入的國人多負擔一些……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個才是大原則。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是你們現在都是針對一般的小股民跟小資族。","好，時間暫停一下，我請一下經濟部部長。"],["主席：時間暫停，麻煩請經濟部部長備詢。","時間繼續。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長、經濟部長，這兩天還有一個非常重大、讓外界看起來也是一個政策大轉彎，但是如果轉彎的話，我個人是非常肯定的。卓院長曾經說非核家園是不可放棄的目標，但是大家也知道，在錯誤的能源政策下，大家一直都認為臺灣不應該完全摒除核電。這兩天包含台電對外宣稱核二、核三有重啟的機會跟條件，包含媒體問龔部長的時候，龔部長也沒有否認這件事情，只說啟動還是需要有一些核安的檢討，而且時間不一定會一樣。所以我想請教院長，在政策上，行政院支不支持台電向經濟部提出有關現在開始來評估核二、核三廠重啟的計畫？行政院支持嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：在有法律的改變之後，我們尊重專業的分析跟科學的根據，如果專業跟科學認為有重啟的可能性，而且安全無虞，在有法律、合法的基礎底下，就請台電進行自主安全檢查的程序，看結果如何，我們再來依最後的結果做判斷。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，其實今天的宣示是一個非常重大的轉圜。整個非核家園在今年5月17號核三走入歷史之前，我們立法院就努力推動法案，以我個人而言，從補選立委到後來參加大選，我的問政及選舉都把希望爭取核二、核三廠延役作為政見，老實說，今天有這樣的轉圜，我個人相信絕大部分的企業、產業，還有絕大部分的國人是支持的，可是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我也要請委員能夠支持政府多元開發、多元綠能的政策跟努力。"],["王委員鴻薇：待會我就會談到綠能，不是不支持，但是不支持掏空的行為。針對這個題目，我還要請教，過去為什麼要推動延役？因為台電曾經評估過核二、核三廠的延役費用，延役是要有費用的，分別是150億到300億；但是重啟的費用，當時在公投的時候，環團提出來的評估提到，如果核三要重啟的話，時間要耗費5到10年，花費的費用高達4,900億元。請教部長，環團這樣的說法是不是接近事實的？"],["龔部長明鑫：應該不是這樣。"],["王委員鴻薇：應該不是，那大概是多少？重啟的費用大概是多少？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為現在我們要自主檢查以後跟原廠評估以後才可以知道，但是當然國外是有一些經驗，國外的經驗……"],["王委員鴻薇：那是不是一定會比延役的費用要高？"],["龔部長明鑫：國外的重啟不會像委員PPT負面右邊的數字那麼高。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是一定會比延役高嘛！我在這邊必須要說……"],["龔部長明鑫：當初評估的價錢跟現在相較，因為現在有物價上漲等等的一些情況，的確會高一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我要講的是，重啟的時間成本、費用成本一定會比延役要高，這是必然的，雖然我支持現在就重啟核二、核三開始進行評估的程序，但是我要講的是，當時我們說破嘴，核三廠在今年5月17號走入歷史，短短半年之間，我們真的覺得撐不下去了，然後現在要重啟核二、核三，現在連核二都要做重啟評估。當然我知道這個壓力很多是來自美方，最近美國有太多的智庫也好，專家也好，能源相關機構也好，或是國安相關機構也好，都指出臺灣能源韌性脆弱的一面，所以重啟核電我相信有很多是來自美方的壓力，可是錢是我們臺灣老百姓出的，不是嗎？早知今日，何必當初？"],["龔部長明鑫：行政部門還是要依法行政，要有法，法沒有改就不可能。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，你覺得當時讓核三廠就這樣走入歷史是不是很可惜的事情？"],["卓院長榮泰：核三廠5月17號停役是基於當時核管法運轉40年的規定，後來經過大院把它延長了，但是我提醒委員，在5月17號的那個時候，我要求不能讓台電核三廠人員離開，一定要保留在原廠裡面，因為我們未來還要做很多事情，包括核三廠的善後乃至於新的核能技術的接觸等等，所以我們是有準備，當有新的核能技術之後，我們要持開放態度來跟整個世界做共同的討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們還好啦！核二、核三廠中，至少核二廠沒有像核一廠把燃料棒全部都送回去，今天才有機會來做重啟。","另外，剛才講到綠能，我們支持綠能，時間暫停一下，我請農業部長上臺。"],["主席：時間暫停，麻煩請農業部長備詢。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，我剛才就說，我不知道行政院現在哪來的底氣，可以政策混亂、這樣大轉彎，除了剛才講的補充保費，最近還發生台肥董事長吳音寧人事案的事件，吳音寧在人事公布前兩天，你們農業部還幫他保證，結果在龐大的社會輿論壓力之下大轉彎，他當了董事，沒有當董事長。院長，這不是第一個案例，同樣地，去年台灣金聯發布呂政璋當董事長，結果號稱是賴清德震怒，三天就下臺，錯誤的人事，呂政璋下臺。另外，經濟部主導成立的綠能科技中心前執行長鄭亦麟，他也出任台智電的副總經理，後來涉入弊案被聲押。我要講的是，這些重要的國營事業人事案，為何如此草率？為何會有這樣的大轉彎？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，台肥是上市公司，不是國營事業。"],["王委員鴻薇：你沒有股權嗎？你的股權將近四分之一！"],["陳部長駿季：它是上市公司，跟國營事業是不一樣的。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，你還好意思在這邊強辯！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，上市公司是上市公司的監管。"],["王委員鴻薇：如果沒有農業部的支持，吳音寧可以當董事長嗎？可以當董事嗎？你還好意思在這邊強辯！"],["陳部長駿季：我們推薦他，是因為吳音寧本身對農業夠了解。"],["王委員鴻薇：國營事業有這樣子的肥貓、這一些人事，難道你們不應該檢討嗎？農業部不是很肯定吳音寧嗎？你如果覺得他那麼好，你讓他當董事長啊！"],["陳部長駿季：吳音寧女士對農業本身的產業發展是夠了解的。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是，國營事業的人過去篳路藍縷，很多國營事業都非常績優，但是我們現在看到的幾大國營事業，院長，現在台電嚴重虧損，這個大家都知道了……"],["龔部長明鑫：那是因為燃料價格變化。"],["王委員鴻薇：中油現在也在嚴重虧損中，累計有沒有虧損？你還要再強辯……"],["龔部長明鑫：那個是因為燃料價格有變化。"],["王委員鴻薇：你以為只有中油跟台電嗎？台水、唐榮、台船，現在通通是在虧損中，我要特別講一下中鋼，院長，你有沒有買過中鋼的股票？"],["卓院長榮泰：我到現在沒有買過任何一張股票。"],["王委員鴻薇：中鋼過去是臺灣的績優股，在有台積電之前，很多股民要存股都是存什麼股？就是中鋼，因為中鋼是一家績優的公司，到現在股民有130萬人。最近我連續參加中鋼工會兩次的記者會，為什麼？中鋼員工在抗議，因為在配合政策下讓中鋼去參與了興達海基的投資，就是綠能的風電基座，讓中鋼一下子虧損了64億之多，我到最近才知道國發基金也有投資，然後還要求中鋼把國發基金的股票也買回去，因為不要再增加國發基金的虧損了，國發基金也是虧損累累啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：國發基金的股票是用1塊錢買回去的，不是用原價。"],["王委員鴻薇：這家公司都快要倒掉了，還要讓人家買回去！"],["龔部長明鑫：還是有股權啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：是啊！所以是把要倒閉的公司讓中鋼去承受、讓龐大的130萬名股民去承受嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，以後還會轉型啦！"],["王委員鴻薇：我今天要講的是，我們未來都會在歷史留名，當年的「趙鐵頭」趙耀東先生，大家談到「趙鐵頭」都是說他把中鋼帶得那麼好，成為臺灣一等一的公司，結果你現在讓中鋼虧損累累，院長，你知道中鋼現在虧損多少嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：中鋼的虧損也有一個原因是來自中國低價鋼的競爭，這是事實。"],["龔部長明鑫：是因為中國低價鋼的競爭，全世界都是這樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：傾銷只是其中一個原因。"],["龔部長明鑫：連韓國現在鋼鐵都賠錢。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，像中鋼這麼好的公司到現在累計虧損將近50億，有46.8億的虧損，而其中投資綠能慘虧64億元之多。"],["卓院長榮泰：中鋼在優質鋼的生產還是有它的競爭力，我們在政策上來協助它進行調整。"],["王委員鴻薇：當然，所以我也會支持，你們當然該做反傾銷稅，但是好的國營事業不要再這樣被糟蹋了，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：一起加油，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們要努力啊！"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢。","接下來請陳超明委員質詢，郭昱晴委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page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謝謝主席 卓院長有請麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":19.366,"end":30.902,"text":"牛委員好 恭喜牛委員榮英新職希望未來我們互相鼓勵 互相加油 共同合作謝謝卓院長的肯定但我們今天還是要針對重大的議題進行討論這個外貿是台灣的產業命脈"},{"start":36.169,"end":51.177,"text":"這個自由流通而且順暢的國際貿易的環境是台灣過去經濟奇蹟現在新一波的成功不可或缺的關鍵因素因此我想對焦世界的局勢掌握國際的脈動應該是政府很重要的責任院長同意我這樣說嗎"},{"start":52.714,"end":70.866,"text":"今天我們總諮詢的主題叫做中美的單邊主義產業的雙重威脅院長你知不知道什麼叫做單邊主義單邊主義從某一個國家自己的角度跟立場跟利益來出發維護自己的所有的利益那麼會跟以前所說的全球的"},{"start":71.266,"end":90.454,"text":"主義會有一點相排斥的作用會有一點相排斥 沒錯國際上來講單邊主義指國家單方面的行動這樣一個行動可能無視其他的當事人不對其他的當事方進行什麼特定的承諾往往帶有民族主義 霸權主義等等的色彩通常是具有一定的實力跟影響力的組織才會奉行所謂的單邊主義"},{"start":91.714,"end":115.712,"text":"現在的國際局勢空前的混亂川普政府上任之後對全世界發動了貿易戰跟關稅的措施請問院長認為在美國對我們的關稅談判裡面美國對台灣是不是採行了單邊主義我認為是美國一個國家對全世界多數的國家進行多數不同形態內容的雙邊談判的一種行為"},{"start":116.973,"end":119.736,"text":"因為美國有一些力量他是主導世界一些經貿的走向跟政治的發展"},{"start":131.209,"end":159.04,"text":"所以在這個情況底下他當然有區域上的一些責任但是就經濟上來講他還是需要跟世界其他的國家跟經濟組織共同合作才能獲得全面的發展跟平衡的進步以美國來講他當然具有剛剛院長有講他具備實際上的影響力舉足輕重那麼川普政府的MAGA基本上有濃濃的這個民族主義的色彩他單方面的對全世界課徵的關稅並沒有經過商量一個程序"},{"start":159.48,"end":179.907,"text":"所以院長他到底是不是藍邊主義基本上還是有經過一些談判的過程比方說我國跟美國的談判當中我們就一直堅持我們的台灣模式這也是一個談判的過程至於歐盟日韓也都有相同的程序在進行過沒關係我們接著往下談我們再來討論這個問題"},{"start":181.207,"end":210.539,"text":"在承接我們上一次總質詢上一次總質詢我們花了非常多的時間去談台美之間的關稅談判很多人都逼問進度等等大概也都沒有下文我們就不再贅述但目前的關稅談判啊如剛剛講 卓院長講他比較傾向一個雙邊的對等的談判那雙邊的對等談判照理來講雙邊都應該得到一些好處嘛對不對 互利然後達成一個協議才是所謂的雙邊對等但目前為止我們的關稅談判除了止損之外真的有額外的好處嗎我唸一段這是最新的嘛經貿談判辦公室的新聞嘛"},{"start":210.999,"end":228.319,"text":"最近已經進入第五輪的實體磋商進入了視訊會議已經準備進入總結會商的階段要簽一個台美的貿易協議那談判的重點我們要的是調降關稅避免最惠國的MFN的稅率重疊也希望232條款有多一點的豁免"},{"start":229.64,"end":255.183,"text":"是人家丟了一個關稅在我們頭上然後我們盡量談不希望這個關稅太高可是除了這些東西以外這個東西叫做止損就是我不要受傷太重對不對那除了止損之外有沒有什麼具體的利多呢有或沒有以目前你們掌握的訊息基本上一開始的原因在於美方他要解決他的貿易逆差跟財政的赤字所以他認為說對他有貿易逆差的國家來看"},{"start":255.563,"end":278.622,"text":"他必須要從貿易的平衡上面來取得雙邊的平衡那我國剛好ICT產業跟其他的電子零組件對美方是有高度的我方的順差的所以他會列為一個重點的對象就我們來講我們如果對美方採取基於我們自己在產業自主發展上面的共同的需求的美方包括全球的佈局"},{"start":279.042,"end":296.745,"text":"那對我們來講也是一個力量的延伸我很懷疑這樣說法的真實性因為普遍上大家都擔心的是產業的空洞化你聽我講完而且談判的標的嘛我剛問的是我們要的是關稅不要太高對不對20加N怎麼樣來做豁免232能不能開幾條路讓我們的ICT還有點活路"},{"start":297.465,"end":326.545,"text":"這個不是利多我舉個例子給你聽這個韓國在談判的時候他是不是談了一個貿易協議他被課了關稅低了一點對不對但好歹他們在造船業等等取得了一定的共識讓他有一口氣可以走嘛那台灣呢我們現在是單純只能像日本這樣只能換到關稅不要殺那麼兇然後我要投資好幾千億美元到你美國本土這個不叫對等談判我認為叫止損因為對產業界來講的話他們是不怕競爭但是要在一個立足點公平上的競爭我們在要求就是這一點"},{"start":327.305,"end":335.963,"text":"至少我們在美國市場上可以跟其他國家所以哪一些產業因為這個未來可能簽成的台美貿易協定他開放了他有新增的利多是以前沒有的"},{"start":339.155,"end":360.92,"text":"你馬上要談一個貿易協議我們會被課關稅 我們會受一點傷那哪一些產業因為這樣利多我們只要可以站在一個利主點的平等我們就不怕競爭我們就可以在美國市場上所以你講的所謂利主點平等你當然是跟我們其他競爭的比如說日本韓國等等相比是大家一起受傷但都不要受傷那麼重所以我講這個叫止損 這個不叫得利"},{"start":361.52,"end":367.617,"text":"好 講到這邊談了半天只能止損那我再問一次院長這個談判是不是單邊主義啊"},{"start":368.939,"end":395.533,"text":"我們有充分表達我方的要求甚至我方未來在美國如果我們投資採購我基於我方的財政跟任何的需求我們有提出我們希望美方要來協助的地方包括一些行政作業的協助等等我覺得這不完全是單邊主義但是美方 我再講一點美方要求平衡他的貿易逆差對我來講就是一個壓力但我們必須在壓力底下尋求一個貿易的平衡"},{"start":396.013,"end":424.55,"text":"好 現在我提醒一下我們的談判團隊啦現在要把握幾個談判的變數這我們一直在講嘛掌握各地的政情跟國際局勢是很重要的這美國最高法院的判決現在看起來風向對於川普政府好像不太有利啊很有可能從他們的大法官的角度這個片面由總統發布課徵關稅的舉動是會受到衝擊的同樣美國國會現在進入了癱瘓的狀態很多共和黨的議員也不見得支持川普的政策甚至對於很多關稅的案子在國會是封殺的請問院長知不知道這個事"},{"start":427.092,"end":452.231,"text":"訊息萬變我們也不敢做任何的揣測不過我們有做事先的各種模擬的分析在什麼樣的情況底下我們應該有進一步的什麼樣的因應以前我們大家都本來很急躁說要談我那時候講說不見得快速談是好的因為局勢一直都在變嘛對不對那現在有一個機遇是這個是美國國內的一個壓力跟一個變數把握這樣的變數其實在談判上我們稍微有好不容易有一點點籌碼我不敢講多啊"},{"start":452.791,"end":476.422,"text":"那這個時候談判的節奏你們會照常進行嗎還是要加速還是要暫緩還是要做什麼樣的打算有把握嗎目前的節奏包括經濟部都很辛苦他一直要跟產業界講因為產業希望我們趕快談定趕快落點落在哪裡但是因為各種局勢啊現在的變化經濟部花了很長的時間跟產業講說我們已經準備好了所有的產業支持的方案所以一旦"},{"start":477.162,"end":503.972,"text":"到了該弱點發生的那一天我們就馬上會上路我提醒一下啦現在比如日本韓國等他簽了都簽了嘛承諾就承諾了即便最後關稅被沒收那個協議都還在對不對但我們現在是有點機會喔因為還沒談成啊那如果有變數的話談判的節奏怎麼捏拿對中華民國產業的利益國家的利益是最好的我提醒院長要做好準備因為啊如果面對這種局勢的瞬息萬變即便是美國國內有它不利的因素我們當然要把握啊"},{"start":505.033,"end":529.187,"text":"對不對國安上面大家是好夥伴是盟友對不對但產業上我們不容任何威脅這也是應該要堅持的如果我們對於這樣的局勢沒有任何因應變化跟策略的調整的話那人民就很難安心了好不好我先提醒關稅的事情到這個地方善用一下機遇現在美國國內的狀況是我們可以利用的籌碼關稅談判的我希望看到一點新的或者是更多的進展因為你舉不出任何利多你只是在"},{"start":530.348,"end":547.627,"text":"止損的情況下談的時候那他當然就是單邊主義我們就是被欺負的對象我們進下一題這看起來世界的格局走向好像也不是只有美國在走單邊主義這個中國大陸最近搞稀土管制院長請問中國大陸的稀土管制是不是一種單邊主義"},{"start":549.141,"end":559.412,"text":"他利用本身這種天然資源上的優勢掌握掌控全世界市場上的需求我講這個是違背全世界合作主義的如果單就這一件來看跟他在"},{"start":565.358,"end":580.915,"text":"整個海洋上面霸權的爭奪來看你剛剛講說西土上違反了全世界合作的原則美國片面克爭全世界關稅有沒有違反全世界合作的原則他說他有透過談判的模式中國大陸西土也談判 他們跟歐盟才剛談完啊他們也談判啊"},{"start":582.497,"end":596.006,"text":"這個談判是0跟100的談判我希望我們面對這個我們今天談的是產業的威脅我就不希望太多的政治的因素在裡面美國的關稅當然是單邊主義同樣中國大陸的稀土經濟當然也是單邊主義"},{"start":597.327,"end":624.73,"text":"對不對 所以這麼大的一個變局院長有沒有實時掌握啊這中美他們現在講G2 structure兩大強權啊你有掌握川習會隨時的談判的進度跟結果應不應該多掌握留心這個的走向當然整個政府團隊包括國安團隊還有我們的談判團隊都密切關心美中跟美台之間的關係謝謝那一 你們整個政府團隊的安排跟想法川習會後的談判結果你覺得誰站得上風"},{"start":626.682,"end":649.573,"text":"兩個人都說他贏啊兩個人都都說自己贏啊兩個人都說自己贏非常好這個誰勝誰負所以你沒有定論對不對你也覺得在變化中嗎我只在乎台灣國家的利益我們有站穩住這個是最重要的好 謝謝這個現在我們就針對稀土這件事情這個稀土這件事情你覺得他們達成協議了沒短時間吧對"},{"start":651.36,"end":678.522,"text":"一年的豁免對不對講得真好來現在狀況出現了我不知道你們有沒有掌握可是你有掌握你不會這樣回答為什麼中國商務部的說法是按照吉隆坡等他們這個部長層級的官員在會談的這樣一個結果然後川習會只是確認因此是10月的擴大稀土管制暫緩執行一年對不對部長我這樣講沒有錯吧這中國商務部的官方說法對不對新的擴大的機制暫緩暫緩一年好院長部長白宮怎麼說的稀土經營的部分"},{"start":680.35,"end":708.576,"text":"他因為這個樣子 他也稍微有一點退讓啊降低了百分之十啊不是 我只講稀土喔他降關稅那個都是大家比較明確的稀土的部分 白宮怎麼說的美國立場應該是他會積極尋求取代稀土的天然資源沒有 我沒有回答到重點 不好意思我直接說明啦白宮的fact sheet公布的說法是包含四月因為四月有一波的七種稀土管制嘛十月的擴大管制白宮的說法是四月跟十月通通會解除喔"},{"start":709.534,"end":724.642,"text":"院長 有沒有掌握這個訊息啊那雙邊認知應該有落差對不對好 雙邊認知落差因為他們現在只是穿席會聊好像還蠻愉快的對不對可是如果雙邊在這個具體的事實認知上出現了嚴重的落差那請問他們的協議會簽還是不會簽這個很難在這裡預測他們兩邊的行為很難預測行為 部長覺得呢"},{"start":733.144,"end":747.73,"text":"因為上次川普1.0的時候中國也承諾了 但是後來也沒有買所以美國人也很生氣所以我們後續還是要看他們兩個國家實際落實的狀況所以你們也沒把握對 但是對台灣來講的話"},{"start":749.632,"end":769.11,"text":"第二階段的這個豁免對我們就是相對比較好因為第二階段有包括主要是磁鐵跟馬達的部分好 非常好這個待會我們有花一些時間來做討論我再多給團隊一點訊號啦這個第一個這個兩邊的認知不同我們剛剛已經說明了嘛這個美國的貝森特選舉就說啊如果稀土禁運持續"},{"start":770.411,"end":794.252,"text":"關稅就會重新回來 這個訊息你們應該要掌握 對不對這個中國商務部最近大幅的擴編人力為什麼 因為他在搞什麼 搞稀土的專案審批嘛你要專案核准才能夠出口 對不對商務部 欸 川習會好像聊得很愉快可是一邊又說關稅會回來一邊講說我商務部要擴增人力這個信號是什麼 真的有這麼樂觀嗎院長 部長 我再問一次你覺得這個協議會不會簽成"},{"start":798.119,"end":817.851,"text":"他總是中國總是要有一些準備吧anyway他可能不管一年的豁免之後可能還要重新談判也不一定我甚至我很擔心啦如果這整份協議都沒有簽成那這一年的豁免會會有豁免嗎是不是就沒有了對不對但是目前看起來還是有這樣的口頭上的第二"},{"start":818.831,"end":844.628,"text":"但兩邊的官方文書說法現在開始出現起義喔沒關係都有可能啦有可能簽的成然後不知道是哪個版本對吧也有可能我認為本席認為機率不低啊因為雙方的認知都不同已經擺在檯面上而雙方的商務系統也都做出了相應的準備所以是很有可能他們兩個聊得很愉快但最後協議簽不下去協議簽不下去代表什麼"},{"start":845.268,"end":849.776,"text":"院長 部長 請問四月包含十月的稀土淨運它會不會繼續存在"},{"start":851.55,"end":874.729,"text":"但是委員因為他們兩個國家對國際間已經散發出有和善有一年的豁免那如果又破局的話我想他們兩個國家也會有壓力很難對全世界交代所以部長比較樂觀 院長呢 你樂觀嗎你覺得有多大的機率簽成協議然後是照哪一個版本來走其實站在中華民國台灣最大的利益是希望全世界穩定"},{"start":876.526,"end":902.009,"text":"軍事 政治 經濟 都穩定那我們才能在當中快速的尋求我們發展的途徑所以任何大國之間的協議如果讓全世界都有一個好的出路 那清楚的目標他就這樣去達成 全世界會比較穩定我期待是這個樣子好 院長期待往好的方向走部長本人的專業判斷比較樂觀本席是不太敢 太樂觀為什麼 因為"},{"start":903.63,"end":930.797,"text":"我剛才講這兩個大國現在都是單邊主義他們都自己想幹嘛就幹嘛不愉快就互相衝突 常常有的事情既然是這樣子的國際環境我希望我們是用料低從寬的心態你當然要想萬一他延長了 對不對四月的也延長了 十月的也延長了我們要提早有因應的措施嘛 對不對部長應該不會反對我這樣講法因為你被動因應或主觀期待很樂觀不見得能夠及時回應產業需求嘛 對不對"},{"start":932.537,"end":960.287,"text":"所以我就要往下問啦稀土的經營措施不見得會解除我們剛討論過了那這段時間我看經濟部的業務報告對不對等等賴總統的一些想法我們有所謂的五大信賴產業包含全球的半導體AI 軍工 安控還有次世代通訊等等是我們未來要主力扶植的產業要加強台灣的競爭力對不對請問這五大產業會不會受到稀土經營的影響"},{"start":962.336,"end":975.993,"text":"會 如果是第二階段那個部分主要是磁鐵跟馬達那個部分會受到比較大的影響部長 第二階段除了具體的講到跟磁鐵跟馬達會有影響之外他還有一個什麼樣的機制會讓我們有更大的產業衝擊"},{"start":977.981,"end":993.287,"text":"他是審批就是說賣到第二國家你要告訴我你最終會賣到哪一個國家用在哪裡標準答案叫長臂管轄對不對也就是說我不會只是管直接從中國大陸進口的稀土或者是相關的材料我連轉口的他手都要伸過去"},{"start":993.787,"end":1013.576,"text":"然後來做壓迫 對不對所以這對台灣的產業風險恐怕是不太小事實上我們根據中華民國商總2025工商會務雙月刊裡面有一筆研究資料叫做大陸管制稀土出口對於美中台產業鏈供應鏈的影響分析2024年以台灣的這個量來講這個95.3%95.3%的稀土磁鐵86.1%的稀土金屬混合化合物79.5%的某類式化合物"},{"start":1024.221,"end":1046.032,"text":"60.7%的稀土金屬是直接來自中國大陸直接或間接來自中國大陸這些東西會影響軍工電動車風電影響醫療高階光學半導體核心這是我們現在最強的地方它雖然不是直接依賴但是它的下游設備跟高階檢測磁性元件等等先進封裝應該都會或多或少受到影響"},{"start":1047.216,"end":1073.875,"text":"我這樣引述有錯嗎但是製程上的影響比較小因為主要是製程上的話會用到所謂的那個4跟藍這一次在12項裡面前後12項裡面沒有包括這兩項我講五大信貸產業就半導體可能相對很小因為這個半導體大家關注啦關注度很高的相對來講資訊比較透明嘛跟磁鐵馬達的部分主要是主要這個部分影響會比較大"},{"start":1074.215,"end":1088.844,"text":"跟磁鐵因為磁鐵馬達其實是小的元件但它影響很多東西來跟你的五大信賴產業有哪一些會具體的受到影響部長要不要說明一下因為大部分的機械的部分會動的部分都或多或少會用到馬達跟磁鐵"},{"start":1090.405,"end":1105.857,"text":"或多或少所以半導體剛講的是封裝嘛對不對所以AI相關的一些電子領域也會用到對不對軍工當然有你剛剛講的無人機安控通訊應該都會用到吧哪一個產業可以完全豁免跟稀土無關的"},{"start":1106.417,"end":1134.491,"text":"是 但是現在的部分我們是因為間接進口就是精煉是在其他國家玩了以後我們是間接從美國或日本或者是美國歐美日本我都明白但它的原料都在哪裡啊美歐日做這半程原料在哪裡目前依賴比較還是依賴中國大陸比較重嘛 對不對好 所以這是一個你們也不會反對的事實就以簡單做一個表格啦跟五大產業鏈這個都有分析的半導體或這幾個"},{"start":1136.612,"end":1164.246,"text":"三 甲 特 狄 流 抗 乙這七大元素四月宣布進口的四月宣布管制的七大元素也就是到現在為止都還要專案審批的七項系統元素跟五大信賴產業的關係軍工特別高所以軍工的影響比較大因為牽涉到無人機等等那跟半導體影響比較小就是我剛才講影響最大的是四根藍沒有在這裡面對所以我今天就針對"},{"start":1165.76,"end":1190.728,"text":"軍工 針對無人機的部分大家來做一下討論我們的政府花了非常非常多的資源有中央的計畫其實各個部會在這個年度的預算書裡面其實很多都提到了無人機產業嘛這應該是一個很重要的一個施政的目標那無人機產業當然應用很廣但很重要的部分當然還是在軍工跟國防嘛 對不對那談到軍工跟國防我們常常政府裡面常常說出來要打造飛鴻供應鏈"},{"start":1192.208,"end":1203.41,"text":"打造這個這樣子的一個供應鏈的情況下請問我們的無人機產業啊我們政府設定的自製率是多少也就是自己國產自己做目標有沒有 有沒有一個相關相對明確的目標"},{"start":1204.514,"end":1230.956,"text":"我們當然是希望說最後的最終結果我們都能做我們都能做並不表示說我們一定全部都一定要在台灣做而是有這個能力因為這個會牽涉到經濟規模的問題如果這一項的零組件只能用在這個area來講的話顯然是不符經濟規模但是如果說特殊狀況要做我們是能夠做出來就好像"},{"start":1232.097,"end":1249.687,"text":"現在很多的無人機我們電子五個說老實話你給他一段時間他都可以發展出來但是問題就是說因為他現在沒有那個需要跟訂單那麼大所以他不見得會投產你在政府在發展整個無人機自製的產業的過程之中你們有沒有設定應該打造飛鴻供應鏈這樣的戰略目標"},{"start":1250.968,"end":1271.719,"text":"現在看起來晶片有個非紅供應鏈在那個地方其他的產業有沒有非紅供應鏈的目標軍工的部分是有的軍工的部分有對不對所以無人機應該也是在應該要變成一條非紅供應鏈以民進黨政府的執政方向這樣應該沒有錯吧對 跟民主國家要共同形成要共同協助好啦 那我就要問核心的問題啦那請問無人機產業我們繞得開紅色稀土嗎"},{"start":1275.949,"end":1294.611,"text":"紅色的稀土吧因為稀土現行的狀況就是都在中國大陸啊所以說為什麼很多的民主國家包括澳洲現在還有美國本身還有很多的國家已經開始針對這些所謂的稀土的部分開始重新開採因為過去來講的話事實上它的成本是不符合這樣的"},{"start":1296.153,"end":1311.134,"text":"因為中國他對環境比較沒有那麼care所以因為他大量要用強酸所以會影響到一些環境所以很多國家不太願意倒不是說他們沒有稀土而是這個精煉的過程開採完要精煉對 要很多的成本"},{"start":1311.394,"end":1336.779,"text":"中國大陸可以卡人家脖子對不對除了稀土產量本身大之外關鍵是精煉的技術或什麼他抓在自己的手上而且他現在在進行管制的措施以無人機產業來講上游的稀土原料跟磁體90%以上要依賴中國大陸中游的馬達 自動氣等等的零組件70%要依賴中國大陸即便是下游的組裝整機因為人家零件的物料等等的優勢也都有50%左右的"},{"start":1337.199,"end":1359.859,"text":"我現在很擔心我們的政府又要講飛鴻供應鏈無人機又是軍工產業裡面還蠻重要的一個亮點政策一環那這彼此之間會不會打架再來就是說如果稀土的長臂管轄跟控制持續的話那我們的無人機產業是推呢還是不推呢院長可以回答嗎我們當然是推啊所謂的飛鴻供應鏈或是民主供應鏈不單是我方"},{"start":1361.072,"end":1383.584,"text":"要去發展是全世界民主理念相近國家都認為在此時此刻如果有這樣一個民主的供應鏈對資安安全上對國防安全上是必要的而且是不可取代的所以不只是我方所以我們應該結合這些理念相近國家共同來尋求一個產業的供應鏈這才是全世界"},{"start":1384.304,"end":1405.96,"text":"大家合作之道目前大家遇到的共同困境就是大家目前一時半刻都繞不開系統剛剛部長有講現在各國在合作澳洲馬來西亞等等有可能有新的投資但你這個新的投資我們先不管中國大陸會不會在精煉的地方再做長臂管轄這整個過程走下來籌資落地設廠還要再商用等等怎麼樣也要個三五年吧"},{"start":1406.52,"end":1426.845,"text":"對不對那這個時候跟我們國家要推動的會不會被卡住啊我只在擔心這個問題啊稀土禁運如果持續存在不要影響我們的產業發展我覺得這是我們政府要特別留心提防的很多人不管是半導體也好其他的產業也好大家都在提醒啊我們現在有沒有針對我們的稀土的進口稀土相關產品的進口進行全面的盤點而且進行庫存的統計"},{"start":1428.385,"end":1447.419,"text":"因為現在這個是一個不確定因素嘛你不確定他的禁運會抓的多嚴嘛我們現在有多少的這個稀土進口走了專案審批被打槍的沒有辦法順利通過的有多少是透過第三地目前還可以順利通過的經濟部這邊 行政院這裡 國安團隊這裡有沒有掌握啊"},{"start":1448.423,"end":1469.337,"text":"八號委員現在絕大部分是進口沒有錯或是稀土的間接產品絕大部分是進口所以我們現在有一些想法就是說我們自己要有一些庫存上的準備滿足我們自己自足但是沒有辦法完全我們希望在至少在2030年之前可以有滿足我們三分之一三分之二還是要跟那個三分之一具體來講是幾噸"},{"start":1470.714,"end":1495.709,"text":"因為那個出口的量我們查到的資料是大概六千億台幣嘛五百噸那我後來有看到另外一份資料講說我們每一年的剛性需求大概是一千五百噸的稀土左右嘛那你希望達到三分之一因為我目前也沒有看到我們有跟其他國家比如說合作開採或什麼樣的一個狀況嘛對不對我目前看到政府推出的策略只有比如說回收再利用欸 此時此刻我們是只有實驗室對不對他能夠一年可以弄出多少噸稀土啊 透過回收"},{"start":1496.41,"end":1511.432,"text":"現在公園已經他有公斤級的這個精煉的相關技術公斤級所以還有一段路要走SKUP以後再把這個計算給這個廠商現在已經有一些廠商有興趣了那這些廠商事實上他們"},{"start":1512.313,"end":1540.892,"text":"有已經在跟澳洲或是其他國家有在談了啦就是說這個原料可以從那邊進來我提醒政府啦既然這五大信賴產業或多或少都會要使用稀土那麼稀土的淨運跟長臂管轄跟專案審批它或多或少就會影響產業發展的進度請針對相關的產業進行盤點它現在已經是重要戰略物資啦你政府當然要有所掌握要庫存統計的掌握你不見得要公開因為它有商業機密這個我們都尊重的"},{"start":1542.613,"end":1565.823,"text":"布裡面現在到底有沒有統計啊 有沒有盤點的資料我們一直在準備啊 所以就是剛剛向委員報告的嘛為什麼我們會開始做自己的那我就 你有準備對不對 在最嚴苛的情況下比如說談判破局 十月的稀土精靈保留而且開始進行長臂管轄 我們可以撐多少天他開始斷供的時候 一案都沒有過 我們可以撐多久"},{"start":1566.465,"end":1591.605,"text":"沒有 現在來講的話全世界還是有間接稀土在運轉當中所以我剛剛問他長臂管轄開始使用包含間接他都把他掐起來的時候沒有 他有些已經出口的已經有DIL的跟人家談好合約的他不可能在長臂管轄所以你現在有一些庫存有一些DIL那大概可以撐多久半年 一年 兩年 三年有沒有一個簡單的時間因為我們的部分我們是間接進口所以很被動"},{"start":1593.366,"end":1617.105,"text":"目前第一道難關倒不是台灣 是我們間接進口的那些國家請你做好最壞的打算 我只能這樣說我們不逼你在這個地方講出具體的數字但是請你做好準備 這是本席 嚴肅的提醒關稅稀土很殘忍這個稀土禁運 我剛剛講了 中國大陸當然是單邊主義他當然就是搞卡脖子 對不對但我告訴你 我之所以擔心的事情 我不會只擔心稀土"},{"start":1617.825,"end":1645.459,"text":"其他的產業也挫雷彈這個是台青院部長以前待過台青院做的景氣燈號報告這當然以總體來講股市兩萬八對不對半導體產業長紅經濟成長率創新高拍拍手但是這個燈號展現了什麼樣的那個你有沒有看過整份的報導基本上除了電子零組件跟半導體科技產業是紅燈熱絡嘛產值非常的高之外其他的產業基本上一片藍的狀況部長有掌握這樣的訊息嗎"},{"start":1646.528,"end":1669.254,"text":"我知道但是因為這個怎麼編的我也知道他比較不敏感我建議您去看看他的營業氣候測驗點國發會你有一個網站我也知道但他沒有這麼詳細的分享台晶園的報告是有詳細各個系的產業的分享這我想也不用我在這邊多言基本上除了半導體跟比較進步科技的產業之外其他的傳統產業是很辛苦的"},{"start":1669.594,"end":1680.621,"text":"我要問你的問題是這幾個產業化材 石油 煤製品 汽車零件毛房品 金屬手工具一般通用機械跟自行車這些產業的共通點是什麼你知道嗎除了他們都是藍燈之外"},{"start":1682.213,"end":1700.078,"text":"現在我看到實際上的數據比如說九月份很多的產業的出口已經恢復到正的成長顯然就是說你回答我的問題就好除了燈號之外有沒有什麼共同點當然就是從五月份開始因為四月份是對等關稅我問你這幾個產業的共同點是什麼"},{"start":1704.403,"end":1731.341,"text":"你一時半刻也看不出來 因為時間有限 我直接公布答案他們都是ECFA早收清單的受益者他們出口賣到中國大陸享有相對優惠的關稅稅率既然美國會用單邊主義殺關稅老共會用單邊主義搞稀土會不會哪一天大家不愉快的時候用單邊主義取消我們的早收清單我們的政府有沒有針對這樣的產業鏈可能的進一步的衝擊傳產的毀滅性打擊 預先做兵棋推演"},{"start":1732.583,"end":1748.737,"text":"院長有嗎所以我們一直在說除了幫助產業能夠在內部研發轉型之外重要的是多元市場的開發幫助他多元市場開發就不會落在一個國家的找收清單把你卡死我們現在協助他"},{"start":1749.818,"end":1770.608,"text":"更多的市場去做更多的開發這有成績單啊你看開發國外市場結果還是藍藍藍藍藍對不對好像效果不好我希望要加油如果你要預做最壞的準備兩邊都會搞單邊主義那表示我們的外貿環境已經不像以前這麼好了我們就希望看到政府有很多積極的作為他可能是預防可能是轉移風險你要做超前部署"},{"start":1772.369,"end":1787.043,"text":"所以謝謝立法院給我們的特別預算至少經濟部來講有460億來因應這樣的挑戰就是多元開發市場還有我們自己本身的轉型升級的協助"},{"start":1787.783,"end":1801.822,"text":"我要提醒最後的時間產業現在面對中美單邊主義的雙重威脅已經是板上釘釘的事實我們如果還在政治掛帥忽略產業的真實需求我想是蒼白無力的人民期待的是方法跟出路"},{"start":1803.404,"end":1826.975,"text":"我要提醒我們的行政院要為產業界創造友善的環境用任何方法創造友善的環境這是我們政府不可迴避的責任我希望我們的行政團隊針對關稅跟稀土的雙重衝擊做好準備 謝謝我應該提醒跟我們現在的關鍵有很大部分是不謀而合所以我們如果共同努力讓產業界更有信心好 謝謝牛許廷委員質詢謝謝卓院長 經濟部長備詢 謝謝"},{"start":1831.742,"end":1833.596,"text":"謝謝王振興委員 張雅玲委員陪同"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":4,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（14時31分）謝謝主席，卓院長有請。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：牛委員好。恭喜牛委員榮膺新職，希望未來我們互相鼓勵、互相加油、共同合作。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝卓院長的肯定，但我們今天還是要針對重大的議題進行討論。外貿是臺灣產業的命脈，自由流通而且順暢的國際貿易環境是臺灣過去的經濟奇蹟，也是現在新一波成功不可或缺的關鍵因素，因此對焦世界的局勢、掌握國際的脈動應該是政府很重要的責任，院長同意我這樣說嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["牛委員煦庭：今天我們總質詢的主題叫做「中美單邊主義，產業雙重威脅」，院長知不知道什麼叫做單邊主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：單邊主義就是從某一個國家自己的角度、立場跟利益出發，維護自己所有的利益，跟以前所說的全球主義會有一點相排斥的作用。"],["牛委員煦庭：會有一點相排斥，沒錯。就國際上來講，單邊主義是指國家單方面的行動，這樣的一個行動，可能無視其他的當事人，不對其他的當事方進行特定的承諾，往往帶有民族主義、霸權主義等等的色彩，通常是具有一定實力跟影響力的組織，才會奉行所謂的單邊主義。","現在的國際局勢空前混亂，川普政府上任之後，對全世界發動貿易戰跟關稅措施，院長認為在美國對我們的關稅談判裡面，美國對臺灣是不是採行了單邊主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為是美國一個國家對全世界多數的國家，進行多數不同型態、內容雙邊談判的一種行為。"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛剛講美國一個國家對全世界，這些東西我都可以認同，但是如果對全世界，到底它是單邊主義，還是對等的雙邊談判？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為美國有一些力量在主導世界一些經貿的走向跟政治的發展……"],["牛委員煦庭：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以在這個情況底下，它當然有區域上的一些責任，但是就經濟上來講，它還是需要跟世界其他國家和經濟組織共同合作，才能獲得全面的發展跟平衡的進步。"],["牛委員煦庭：以美國來講，就像剛剛院長講的，它當然具備實際上的影響力、舉足輕重，川普政府的MAGA（Make America Great Again.）基本上有濃濃的民族主義色彩。它單方面對全世界課徵關稅，並沒有經過商量的一個程序，所以院長，它到底是不是單邊主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：基本上還是有經過一些談判的過程，比方說，在我國跟美國的談判當中，我們就一直堅持我們的臺灣模式，這也是一個談判的過程，至於歐盟、日、韓也都有相同的程序在進行。"],["牛委員煦庭：OK，沒關係，我們接著往下談，再來討論這個問題。承接我們上一次的總質詢，上一次總質詢我們花了非常多的時間談臺美之間的關稅談判，很多人都逼問進度等等的，但大概也都沒有下文，我就不再贅述了。","但就目前的關稅談判，剛剛卓院長講他比較傾向是一個雙邊對等的談判，如果是雙邊的對等談判，照理來講，雙邊都應該得到一些好處嘛，對不對？有互利，然後達成一個協議，才是所謂的雙邊對等。但到目前為止，我們的關稅談判除了止損之外，真的有額外的好處嗎？","我唸一段，這是經貿談判辦公室最新的新聞：最近已經進入第五輪的實體磋商，進入了視訊會議，已經準備進入總結會商的階段，要簽一個臺美的貿易協議；談判重點我們要的是調降關稅，避免與MFN的稅率重疊，也希望232條款有多一點的豁免。是人家丟了一個關稅在我們頭上，我們儘量談，不希望這個關稅太高，這個東西叫做止損，就是我不要受傷太重，對不對？除了止損之外，有沒有什麼具體的利多呢？有或沒有？以目前你們掌握的訊息。"],["卓院長榮泰：基本上，一開始的原因在於美方要解決他的貿易逆差及財政赤字，所以他認為對他有貿易逆差的國家，他必須要從貿易上面取得雙邊平衡，我國ICT產業及其他電子零組件對美方剛好有高度的順差，所以他會列為一個重點對象……"],["牛委員煦庭：是，所以他……"],["卓院長榮泰：但就我們來講，如果對美方採取基於我們自己產業自主發展上面的共同需求，包括全球的布局，對我們來講，也是一個力量的延伸。"],["牛委員煦庭：我很懷疑這樣說法的真實性，因為普遍上大家擔心的都是產業的空洞化……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告……"],["牛委員煦庭：你聽我講完。而且談判的標的，我剛剛問的是，我們要的是關稅不要太高，對不對？20%加N怎麼樣來豁免？232能不能開幾條路，讓我們的ICT還有點活路？這個不是利多，我舉個例子給你聽。","韓國在談判的時候是不是談了一個貿易協議，他被課了關稅，低了一點，對不對？但好歹他們在造船業等等取得了一定的共識，讓他有一口氣可以走。臺灣呢？我們現在是像日本這樣，單純只能換到關稅不要殺那麼凶，然後要投資好幾千億美元到美國本土，這個不叫對等談判，我認為叫止損喔！"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為對產業界來講，他們是不怕競爭，但是要在一個立足點上公平競爭，我們要求的就是這一點，至少我們在美國市場上可以跟其他國家做一個公平競爭。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以哪一些產業因為這個未來可能簽成的臺美貿易協議開放有新增的利多是以前沒有的？"],["龔部長明鑫：你再講一次，我沒聽清楚。"],["牛委員煦庭：你們馬上要談一個貿易協議，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：我們會被課關稅，我們會受一點傷，對不對？那哪一些產業會因為這樣而有利多？"],["龔部長明鑫：只要可以站在一個平等的立足點，我們就不怕競爭，我們就可以在美國市場上憑著大家的實力……"],["牛委員煦庭：你講的所謂立足點的平等當然是跟我們其他的競爭者（比如日本、韓國等等）相比，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：是大家一起受傷，但都不要受傷那麼重，所以我講這個叫止損，這個不叫得利。","談了半天只能止損，我再問一次院長，這個談判是不是單邊主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有充分表達我方的要求，甚至我方未來在美國如果有投資、採購，基於我方的財政及任何的需求，我們有提出希望美方要來協助的地方，包括一些行政作業的協助等等，我覺得這不完全是單邊主義，但是美方……"],["牛委員煦庭：不完全？"],["卓院長榮泰：我再講一次，美方要求平衡他的貿易逆差對我們來講就是一個壓力，我們必須在這個壓力底下尋求貿易的平衡。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，現在我提醒一下我們的談判團隊，現在要把握幾個談判的變數，這個我們一直在講，掌握各地的政情及國際局勢很重要。美國最高法院的判決現在看起來風向對於川普政府好像不太有利，很有可能從他們大法官的角度，這個片面由總統發布課徵關稅的舉動是會受到衝擊的。同樣，美國國會現在進入癱瘓的狀態，很多共和黨的議員也不見得支持川普的政策，甚至很多關稅的案子在國會是被封殺的。請問院長知不知道這件事？"],["卓院長榮泰：𣊬息萬變，我們也不敢做任何的揣測，不過我們有事先做各種模擬的分析，在什麼樣的情況底下，我們應該有進一步怎麼樣的因應。"],["牛委員煦庭：以前大家本來都很急躁說要談，我那時候講不見得快速談是好的，因為局勢一直都在變，對不對？現在有一個機遇是美國國內的一個壓力及一個變數，把握這樣的變數，在談判上，我們好不容易稍微有一點點籌碼，我不敢講多，所以這個時候談判的節奏你們會照常進行嗎？還是要加速，還是要暫緩，還是要做什麼樣的打算？有把握嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前的節奏，包括經濟部都很辛苦，他一直要跟產業界講，因為產業界希望我們趕快談定，趕快知道落點落在哪裡，但是因為現在各種局勢的變化，經濟部花了很長的時間跟產業界講，我們已經準備好所有支持產業的方案，一旦到了落點發生的那一天，我們馬上會上路。"],["牛委員煦庭：我提醒一下，現在比如日本、韓國等簽都簽了、承諾都承諾了，即便最後關稅被沒收，那個協議都還在，對不對？但我們現在是有點機會，因為還沒談成，如果有變數的話，談判的節奏怎麼拿捏對於中華民國產業的利益、國家的利益是最好的，我提醒院長要做好準備……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為面對這種局勢的瞬息萬變，即便美國國內有它不利的因素，我們當然要把握，對不對？國安上面大家是好夥伴、是盟友，對不對？但產業上我們不容任何威脅，這也是應該要堅持的。如果我們對於這樣的局勢沒有任何因應變化及策略調整的話，人民就很難安心，好不好？我先提醒關稅的事情到這個地方……"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：善用一下機遇！現在美國國內的狀況是我們可以利用的籌碼，面對關稅談判，我希望看到一點新的或者是更多的進展，因為你舉不出任何利多，只是在止損的情況下談的時候，那他當然就是單邊主義，我們就是被欺負的對象。","我們進到下一題，看起來世界的格局走向好像也不是只有美國在走單邊主義，中國大陸最近搞稀土管制，院長，請問中國大陸的稀土管制是不是一種單邊主義？"],["卓院長榮泰：他利用本身這種天然資源上的優勢，掌控全世界市場上的需求，我想這個是違背全世界合作主義的。"],["牛委員煦庭：違背全世界合作，所以認為是嗎？是一種單邊主義嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果單就這一件來看，跟他在整個海洋上面的霸權爭奪來看，他是……"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛剛講說在稀土的部分違反了全世界合作的原則，美國片面課徵全世界關稅，有沒有違反全世界合作的原則？"],["卓院長榮泰：他有透過談判的模式。"],["牛委員煦庭：中國大陸稀土也有談判，他們跟歐盟才剛談完，他們也有談判。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個談判是0跟100談判，這是……"],["牛委員煦庭：院長，我們今天談的是產業的威脅，我就不希望有太多的政治因素在裡面，美國的關稅當然是單邊主義，同樣，中國大陸的稀土禁運當然也是單邊主義，對不對？所以這麼大的一個變局，院長有沒有時時掌握他們現在說的G2 structure（中美兩大強權），以及掌握川習會隨時的談判進度跟結果，應不應該多掌握、留心這個走向？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，整個政府團隊，包括國安團隊，還有我們的談判團隊，都密切關切美中跟美臺之間的關係。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝。那依你們整個政府團隊的安排跟想法，川習會後的談判結果，你覺得誰占了上風？"],["卓院長榮泰：兩個人都說自己贏。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩個人都說自己贏，非常好，所以誰勝誰負你沒有定論，對不對？你也覺得在變化中嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我只在乎臺灣國家的利益，我們有站穩住，這個是最重要的。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝。現在我們就針對稀土這件事情，稀土這件事情你覺得他們達成協議了沒？"],["卓院長榮泰：短時間吧！"],["龔部長明鑫：一年的豁免。"],["牛委員煦庭：一年的豁免，對不對？講得真好。現在狀況出現了，我不知道你們有沒有掌握，可是如果你有掌握，你不會這樣回答，為什麼？中國商務部的說法是按照他們部長層級的官員在吉隆坡會談的結果，然後川習會只是確認，因此是10月的擴大稀土管制暫緩執行一年，對不對？部長，我這樣講沒有錯吧？這是中國商務部的官方說法，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：新的擴大機制暫緩。"],["牛委員煦庭：暫緩一年。好，院長、部長，稀土禁運的部分白宮怎麼說的？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為這個樣子，他也稍微有一點退讓，降低了10%。"],["牛委員煦庭：我只講稀土，降關稅那個是大家都比較明確的，稀土的部分白宮怎麼說的？"],["卓院長榮泰：美國的立場應該是他會積極尋求取代稀土的天然資源。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有回答到重點，不好意思，我直接說明，白宮的Fact Sheet公布的說法是，包含4月，因為4月有一波7種稀土管制以及10月的擴大管制，白宮的說法是4月跟10月通通會解除。院長、部長有沒有掌握這個訊息？"],["卓院長榮泰：雙邊認知應該有落差。"],["牛委員煦庭：雙邊認知有落差，對不對？因為他們現在只是川習會聊得好像還蠻愉快的，可是如果雙邊在這個具體的事實認知上出現嚴重的落差，那請問他們的協議會簽還是不會簽？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個很難在這裡預測他們兩邊的行為。"],["牛委員煦庭：很難預測行為，部長覺得呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：對啊！因為上次川普1.0的時候，中國也承諾，但是後來也沒有買，美國人也很生氣，所以我們後續還是要看他們兩個國家實際落實的狀況。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你們也沒把握。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，但是對臺灣來講，第二階段的豁免對我們相對比較好，因為第二階段主要有包括磁鐵跟馬達的部分。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，非常好，這個待會我們會花一些時間來做討論。我再多給團隊一點訊號，第一個，兩邊的認知不同，我們剛剛已經說明了，美國的貝森特旋即就說，如果稀土禁運持續，關稅就會重新回來。這個訊息你們應該有掌握，對不對？中國商務部最近大幅擴編人力，因為他在搞稀土的專案審批，要專案核准才能夠出口，對不對？川習會好像聊得很愉快，可是一邊又說關稅會回來，一邊講說我的商務部要擴增人力，這個信號是什麼？真的有這麼樂觀嗎？院長、部長，我再問一次，你覺得這個協議會不會簽成？"],["龔部長明鑫：中國總是要有一些準備嘛！可能一年的豁免之後還要重新談判也不一定。"],["牛委員煦庭：甚至我很擔心，如果這整份協議都沒有簽成，那這一年的豁免會有豁免嗎？是不是就沒有了？"],["龔部長明鑫：但是目前看起來還是有這樣的口頭的deal。"],["牛委員煦庭：口頭上的deal，但兩邊官方文書的說法現在開始出現歧異喔！沒關係，都有可能啦！有可能簽得成，然後不知道是哪一個版本，對吧？也有可能……本席認為機率不低啊！因為雙方的認知都不同，已經擺在檯面上了，而雙方的商務系統也都做出了相應的準備，所以是很有可能他們兩個聊得很愉快，但最後協議簽不下去，協議簽不下去代表什麼？院長、部長，請問4月包含10月的稀土禁運會不會繼續存在？"],["龔部長明鑫：但是委員，因為他們兩個國家對國際間已經散發出和善的訊息、有一年的豁免，如果又破局的話，我想他們兩個國家也會有壓力，很難對全世界交代。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以部長比較樂觀，院長，你樂觀嗎？你覺得有多大的機率簽成協議，然後是照哪一個版本來走？"],["卓院長榮泰：其實站在中華民國臺灣最大的利益，是希望全世界穩定，軍事、政治、經濟都穩定，我們才能在當中快速的尋求我們發展的途徑，所以任何大國之間的協議，如果能讓全世界都有一個……"],["牛委員煦庭：好的出路。"],["卓院長榮泰：清楚的目標，他就這樣去達成，全世界會比較穩定，我期待是這個樣子。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，院長期待往好的方向走，部長本人的專業判斷比較樂觀，本席是不太敢太樂觀，為什麼？因為我剛才講了，這兩個大國現在都是單邊主義，他們都自己想幹嘛就幹嘛，不愉快就互相衝突，這是常常有的事情。既然是這樣子的國際環境，我希望我們要用料敵從寬的心態，你當然要想萬一它延長了，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒錯，我們一定會準備。"],["牛委員煦庭：4月的延長了，10月的也延長了，我們要提早有因應措施嘛，對不對？部長應該不會反對我這樣的講法，因為你被動因應，或是說我主觀期待很樂觀……"],["龔部長明鑫：有、有、有，我們都有。"],["牛委員煦庭：不見得能夠及時回應產業需求，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們有在做準備。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我就要往下問，稀土的禁運措施不見得會解除，我們剛剛討論過了，這段時間我有看經濟部的業務報告等等，賴總統有一些想法，我們有所謂的五大信賴產業，包含全球半導體、AI、軍工、安控、次世代通訊等等，這是未來要主力扶植的產業，要加強臺灣的競爭力，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：請問這五大產業會不會受到稀土禁運的影響？"],["龔部長明鑫：會，如果是第二階段那個部分，主要是磁鐵跟馬達的部分會受到比較大的影響。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，第二階段除了具體講到對磁鐵跟馬達會有影響之外，它還有一個什麼樣的機制會讓我們有更大的產業衝擊？"],["龔部長明鑫：它是審批，就是賣到第二個國家，你要告訴我你最終會賣到哪一個國家、用在哪裡。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒錯，標準答案，叫長臂管轄，對不對？也就是說，他不會只管直接從中國大陸進口的稀土或者是相關的材料，連轉口的，他的手都要伸過去，然後來做壓迫，對不對？所以這對臺灣的產業風險恐怕是不太理想。根據中華民國商總2025工商會務雙月刊裡面的一份研究資料，叫做中國大陸管制稀土出口對美中臺產業鏈供應鏈影響研析，2024年，以臺灣的量來講，95.3%的稀土磁鐵、86.1%稀土金屬混合化合物、79.5%的某類鈰化合物與60.7%的稀土金屬是直接或間接來自中國大陸，這些東西會影響軍工、電動車、風電、醫療、高階光學、半導體核心等。半導體核心是我們現在最強的地方，它雖然不是直接依賴，但是它的下游設備、高階檢測、磁性元件、先進封裝，應該或多或少都會受到影響。我這樣引述有錯嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，但是製程上的影響比較小，因為製程上主要會用到鈰跟鑭，這一次在前後十二項裡面，沒有包括這兩項。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，我講五大信賴產業，半導體可能相對很小，因為大家對半導體的關注度很高，相對來講資訊比較透明，但其他的呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：磁鐵、馬達的部分，主要這個部分影響會比較大。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為磁鐵、馬達是小的元件，當然會影響到很多東西。在你的五大信賴產業中，有哪一些會具體受到影響，部長要不要說明一下？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為大部分機械、會動的部分，或多或少都會用到馬達跟磁鐵，比如說無人機等等，那個都是因為有電池……"],["牛委員煦庭：講得很好，所以半導體剛剛講的是封裝嘛，包括AI相關的一些電子零組件等等也會用到，對不對？軍工當然有，包括你剛剛講的無人機，還有安控、通訊應該都會用到吧？哪一個產業可以完全豁免、跟稀土無關的？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，但是現在我們是因為間接進口，是在其他國家精煉完了以後，我們是間接從美國、日本或歐盟進口。"],["牛委員煦庭：從美國、歐盟、日本進口，這我都明白，但它的原料都在哪裡？美、歐、日做這些半成品，它的原料在哪裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：目前依賴比較重的是中國大陸……"],["牛委員煦庭：還是依賴中國大陸比較重嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，目前。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以這是一個你們也不會反對的事實。我就簡單做一個表格，對五大產業鏈都有分析。釤、釓、鋱、鏑、鎦、鈧和釔這七大元素是4月宣布管制出口的，也就是到現在為止都還要專案審批的七項稀土元素跟五大信賴產業的關係，軍工特別高！"],["龔部長明鑫：所以軍工的影響比較大，因為牽涉到無人機等等，跟半導體影響比較小，就是我剛才講的，影響最大是鈰跟鑭，沒有在這裡面。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，所以今天就針對軍工、針對無人機的部分，大家來做一下討論。我們的政府花了非常、非常多的資源，有中央的計畫，其實各個部會在這個年度的預算書裡面很多都提到了無人機產業，這應該是一個很重要的施政目標。無人機產業當然應用很廣，但很重要的部分還是在軍工跟國防，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：談到軍工跟國防，政府常常說打造非紅供應鏈，在打造此一供應鏈的情況下，請問政府設定無人機產業的自製率是多少？也就是國產自己做，有沒有一個相對明確的目標？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們當然希望最終結果是我們都能做，我們都能做並不表示一定全部都要在臺灣做，而是有這個能力。因為這會牽涉到經濟規模的問題，如果這一項的零組件只能用在這個area，顯然不符經濟規模，但是如果特殊狀況要做，我們是能夠做出來。就好像現在有很多無人機，說老實話，你給我們的電子五哥一段時間，都可以發展出來，但問題就是，因為現在沒有那個需要跟那麼大的訂單，所以他不會……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以他不見得會投產，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：政府在發展整個無人機自製產業的過程之中，有沒有設定應該打造非紅供應鏈這樣的戰略目標？"],["龔部長明鑫：有。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在看起來晶片有個非紅供應鏈在那個地方，其他產業有沒有非紅供應鏈的目標？"],["龔部長明鑫：軍工的部分是有的。"],["牛委員煦庭：軍工的部分有，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：無人機也應該要變成一條非紅供應鏈，以民進黨政府的執政方向，這樣應該沒有錯吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，跟民主國家要共同形成一個民主供應鏈。"],["牛委員煦庭：要共同協助。好，那我就要問核心的問題，請問無人機產業，我們繞得開紅色稀土嗎？因為稀土現行的狀況就是都在中國大陸啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：所以很多民主國家，現在包括澳洲、美國本身，還有很多國家，針對所謂的稀土已經開始重新開採了。因為過去來講，事實上它的成本是不符合這樣的……而中國對環境比較沒有那麼care，因為開採要大量使用強酸，會影響到一些環境，所以很多國家不太願意開採，倒不是他們沒有稀土，而是精煉的過程……"],["牛委員煦庭：開採完要精煉嘛？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，要很多的成本，包括環境的成本。"],["牛委員煦庭：中國大陸可以卡人家脖子，除了稀土產量本身大之外，關鍵是精煉的技術等等，他抓在自己的手上，而且他現在正在進行管制措施。以無人機產業來講，上游的稀土原料跟磁體百分之九十以上要依賴中國大陸，中游的馬達制動器等零組件百分之七十要依賴中國大陸，即便是下游的組裝整機，因為它有零件、物料等等優勢，也都有百分之五十左右的依賴率。我現在很擔心我們的政府又要講非紅供應鏈，但無人機又是軍工產業裡面還滿重要的一個亮點政策跟一環，彼此之間會不會打架？再來，如果稀土的長臂管轄跟控制持續，我們的無人機產業是推，還是不推呢？院長可以回答嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然是推。所謂的非紅供應鏈或是民主供應鏈，不單是我方要發展，是全世界民主理念相近國家都認為，此時此刻如果有這樣的民主供應鏈，對資安、國防安全是必要的而且是不可取代的。因為不只是我方，所以我們應該結合這些理念相近國家，共同尋求一個產業供應鏈，這才是全世界大家的合作之道。"],["牛委員煦庭：目前大家遇到的共同困境，就是一時半刻都繞不開稀土。剛剛部長有講，現在各國在合作，例如澳洲、馬來西亞等等，都可能有新的投資，但這個新的投資，我們先不管中國大陸會不會在精煉的地方再做長臂管轄，這整個過程走下來，籌資、落地設廠還要再商用等等，怎麼樣也要個三、五年，對不對？這個時候我們國家要推動的會不會被卡住？我只擔心這個問題。稀土禁運如果持續存在，不要影響我們的產業發展，我覺得這是政府要特別留心、提防的。不管是半導體也好，其他產業也好，大家都在提醒，我們現在有沒有針對稀土的進口、稀土相關產品的進口，進行全面盤點與庫存統計？因為現在這是一個不確定因素，你不確定它的禁運會抓得多嚴，我們現在有多少稀土進口走專案審批被打槍、沒有辦法順利通過的？有多少是透過第三地目前還可以順利通過的？經濟部這邊、行政院這裡、國安團隊這裡有沒有掌握？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，現在絕大部分是進口沒有錯啦，或是稀土的間接產品絕大部分是進口，所以我們現在有一些想法就是說，我們自己要有一些庫存上的準備，滿足我們自給自足，但是沒有辦法完全，我們希望至少在2030年之前可以滿足我們三分之一，三分之二還是要跟民主國家……"],["牛委員煦庭：你那個三分之一具體來講是幾噸？因為那個出口的量，我們查到的資料是大概6,000億臺幣。"],["龔部長明鑫：500噸。"],["牛委員煦庭：我後來有看到另外一份資料講說我們每一年的剛性需求大概是1,500噸左右的稀土嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["牛委員煦庭：你希望達到三分之一，因為我目前也沒有看到我們有跟其他國家譬如說合作開採或什麼樣的一個狀況，對不對？我目前看到政府推出的策略只有比如回收再利用，此時此刻我們是只有實驗室，對不對？它一年可以弄出多少噸稀土，透過回收？"],["龔部長明鑫：現在工研院已經有公斤級的精煉相關技術……"],["牛委員煦庭：現在公斤級？"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以還有一段路要走。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們要把那個scale up，scale 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徹查涉案銀行對違規金融從業者依法嚴懲並公開處分"},{"start":183.179,"end":195.089,"text":"強化外橋與外資公司設立的實質審查加速審判的進程用公權力來守護人民的財產安全讓犯罪者無所遁形謝謝"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":10,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（9時3分）主席以及各位同仁，大家早。臺灣丟臉丟到國際，竟然淪為陳志跨國詐騙集團的洗錢樂園，重創國家的名聲，這一切都是民進黨政府怠惰失職的直接結果。美國與英國已對太子集團祭出史無前例的大規模制裁與起訴，清楚地揭露該集團透過空殼公司、加密貨幣與複雜的資金網路大肆詐騙、洗錢，而令人憤怒的是，臺灣不是在犯罪時就啟動調查，而是在美方揭露制裁後，才倉皇對付。有關單位一直到檢調大規模搜索、扣押資產案情才有所突破，但司法對相關人士的交保金額竟然只有3萬到70萬，面對45億元的不法金流、豪宅、名車，北檢卻只開出象徵性的交保金額，難怪陳志的特助以15萬交保時還對著鏡頭笑，彷彿在笑臺灣的司法！這樣的方式簡直把臺灣的司法公信力踐踏在地，這樣的荒謬換來的只有國際的恥笑！","民進黨政府這種被美國點名才行動的消極態度，在臺灣的跨國犯罪面前赤裸裸的暴露出無力與被動。如果沒有美英的通報，這些疑似人頭公司是否會繼續的橫行？可疑資金流是否會持續的在臺灣穿梭？那些豪宅、名車就能繼續享受，人民的安全、國家的金融秩序在民進黨的治理下竟然如此的脆弱，這是羞辱，更是危機！","陳志詐騙集團在臺設立十數家企業，坐擁101多層豪宅的招待所，軌跡至少可以回溯到9年前，剛好是蔡英文上臺的時候，這些年來他們在臺灣予取予求，政府的洗錢防制制度等於形同虛設，司法又無力查緝，詐騙集團就將臺灣當成提款機、避風港。","民進黨政府不能只會對弱勢、對政敵逞凶鬥狠，卻在關乎國家安全與人民安全時，又變得軟弱無能。若面對國際犯罪組織的違法行徑，選擇裝傻，這種政府與詐騙集團又有什麼差別呢？本席具體的要求，面對跨國犯罪，政府應該展現的是主動、迅速、透明，而不是拖延、怕事、裝睡，立即成立跨部會的專責小組，積極的查緝不法，徹查涉案的銀行，對違規金融從業者，依法嚴懲，並公開處分，強化對外僑與外資公司設立的實質審查，加速審判的進程，用公權力來守護人民的財產安全，讓犯罪者無所遁形！"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員的發言。接下來請洪孟楷委員發言，林倩綺委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":184,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","麥玉珍","許宇甄","洪孟楷","林倩綺"],"page_start":181,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"國是論壇","agenda_id":"1149101_00006"}}},{"id":"165181","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165181","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f0ec1a47d8a1f71718da8d1794993bca446b82e240629b5e2a0f7628e6d07117175ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"麥玉珍","委員發言時間":"09:00:23 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院長"},{"start":26.584,"end":40.218,"text":"縣長 非常感謝10月28日宣布在丹納斯颱風所有的災民加碼兩萬塊的一個決定這個對台南鄉親來講是及時宜比這個一萬塊"},{"start":41.94,"end":55.209,"text":"那個就是普發現金的一萬塊對我們來講更有效可是在這裡要跟院長做一個探討就是說在台南市造冊的這些災民那我們造冊的大概有46801那這個煤河就是屋頂"},{"start":60.872,"end":77.297,"text":"已經透過我們中央的一個協助修繕完成了大概已經有1022那剩下的這些鄉親他可能存在的一些年紀比較大的他不會上網的"},{"start":77.857,"end":93.646,"text":"還有就是說在修繕的這段時間他非常的一個忙碌所以他沒有辦法去區公所登記的這些人有沒有機會就是說可以協助這個讓他們這個兩萬塊讓他們是在這個造冊的名單裡面謝謝文官心這個方式的對象"},{"start":100.632,"end":127.619,"text":"是對於那些自行修繕者他如果當時已經經過政府跟他們的媒合有幫他修繕了或者是經過這些社會的一些公益團體有去任養的或是像政府已經全額幫他完成修繕了這個要先排除在外因為我們已經進到了幫他總整家園那其他自己修繕了也許他已經修繕也許他沒有修繕我們認為在這個時候也因為"},{"start":128.499,"end":143.573,"text":"社會各界的善款我們累積起來怎麼去處理還有應該把它盡快的把它善款發放所以我們有這樣的2萬塊對這些自行修善的受災的居民再給他多一點點的重整家園的補助"},{"start":144.796,"end":158.869,"text":"所以院長我現在講說撇除這些人以外就是說還有其實還存在的一些就是災民這些人有沒有機會就是說他重新再到區公所登記然後我們也是補他兩萬塊呢"},{"start":161.051,"end":185.932,"text":"剛剛講的那一段是因為他已經有登記在案所以我們就直接入他的帳那其他的部分到底是什麼樣態地方政府應該有一個整理到底是什麼樣態當初如果是面積比較小的地方政府也補了一部分後來我們也加了那還有些什麼樣但是當初沒有登記的這個我沒有辦法在這裡做了解委員可以提供我們可以進一步去了解跟地方政府來做整理"},{"start":186.052,"end":202.625,"text":"那我把這個資料給院長那就是說我們希望就是說這一個補助這個補助就是我們希望不是說有人領到而已我們是希望所有受災的人都可以領到這個另外的這個兩萬塊那事後我把這個資料"},{"start":203.585,"end":233.025,"text":"那個再給院長再來就是說也謝謝跟部長跟那個部長感謝這個在這一次的揮州豬瘟那個事實上就是說在整個重塑重塑這個15天的一個封堵那事實上今天已經開始了就是這個屠宰那也恢復了這個拍賣那顯然今天的價錢看起來部長好像還不錯你有把它撐住了"},{"start":234.646,"end":255.964,"text":"我剛剛還第一次看到委員最近以來的第一次面帶一點微笑面帶一點輕鬆的微笑我剛剛還謝謝部長的辛苦事實上我們也非常非常的害怕我跟委員報告就是到了4點半左右的時候現在整個租價最高到112然後有單資的到118、120那不要講那大概平均大概將近101左右"},{"start":258.825,"end":269.489,"text":"在雲林它到了112可是在我們台南其實才90幾塊95、96可是普通現在最大的一個困難要跟你們探討的就是說你補助已經上來了顯然一隻豬它其實成本要7千塊這7千塊的時候你一隻補助"},{"start":282.053,"end":309.655,"text":"一個是300塊810塊一個810塊有吃飯跟吃飼料這個是有一個差異性是好這個補助遠遠是不足的那你看我要跟委員報告我們是補助他這個15天的他不能他自留在豬場不能上市的這15天的一個飼料的一個費用當然你看嘛他一個他吃了一斤的飼料要18塊嘛所以你一隻豬每天就要多吃了500塊錢"},{"start":311.316,"end":317.98,"text":"沒有啦 沒有那麼多啦沒有 我們會後再來討論我們會後再來討論一隻雞 現在養豬報告一隻雞都養了84公斤 85公斤好 這15天我們現在要來探討的就是說"},{"start":327.645,"end":345.882,"text":"輔助這另外一個議題我們再討論那當然大家共體時間那問題就是說這個我們看到了農業部徐牧師提出來的一個資料就是從今天開始到明年的三月你每天要給台兩千隻三千 你要去化這39萬頭豬"},{"start":352.128,"end":374.122,"text":"有沒有想到這些問題所以說這是豬肉比較擔心的我們現在滯留總共39萬隻35到39萬隻那我們現在正在統計我如果在非常短的時間是進不到市場的那進到市場的時候因為第一個屠宰量的問題每天的屠宰量我們必須考慮第二個每天的批發拍賣量我們要考慮"},{"start":375.022,"end":394.716,"text":"第三個部分就是說當量太多的時候那個價格是撐不住的所以我們現在就是有一個有次序的一個把毛豬上市經過登記的方式你已經講到了這個問題萬一豬價崩盤的話如果你用這樣的一個消化方式的話其實是我們是擔心的"},{"start":395.529,"end":415.218,"text":"你要殺豬 有這個豬 這個是冷凍豬的話有沒有地方放 當然是有地方放你不管是台塘還是各大的一個畜牧冷凍場我跟委員報告 就是說我們有一部分的豬是直接拉到屠宰場不經過批發的那過去是15% 我們會做一個調整"},{"start":417.82,"end":428.153,"text":"我們要維持批發價的部分如果價格低到某個程度的時候我們會請冷凍這些廠商進來拉租所以我們會去撐住一些基本的價格你會出來復盤你今天有沒有復盤我們現在沒辦法說這個"},{"start":433.84,"end":454.819,"text":"沒有 你一定要給我們一個底線大概在哪裡嗎就像說你會告訴我說我維持在90塊還是95塊左右還是95塊以下你總是要讓大家有一個心理準備我現在沒辦法講這個因為我們在做價格的監控的部分你現在沒有辦法講私底下可以不可以讓我知道也沒辦法"},{"start":455.379,"end":467.902,"text":"也沒辦法那這樣子的話我們全部的一個計畫都是在沒有辦法掌控當中那萬一我們的租價崩盤的話怎麼辦呢這是憑國企方法我跟你們報告我跟你們報告我們每一天全國的國內有20個20個肉品市場"},{"start":474.364,"end":482.746,"text":"那個拍賣價我們一直在監控那如果說有適當的相關的這些不正常的下跌的時候你要想想到39萬頭豬他這個你不殺他的話他會越吃越大這大隻的有兩種介紹"},{"start":494.698,"end":509.854,"text":"就是載豬的話是不值錢未來幾個月他都有依靠標準的去化量現在就是在跟你探討這個去化量其實是被養豬協會存疑的我們擔心的"},{"start":510.575,"end":534.612,"text":"院長我是收藝師所以我對這一個領域裡頭我多多少少有一些了解所以我擔心這39萬頭豬你用5個月來去化的話我跟你講這個市場會亂掉我跟委員報告我們這樣一個操作的方式是跟所有的養豬協會這邊來討論然後我們也跟冷凍工會來討論我們也跟肉品市場來討論每個禮拜都有一個供銷的調度會議"},{"start":540.214,"end":556.471,"text":"所以會隨時調整嗎對 這個一定是滾動調整的我想這個滾動的調整可是我還是希望就是說這個租價可以維持在110 120因為你租期越大你不知道要怎麼樣你知道嗎這個是一個很嚴重的問題"},{"start":557.612,"end":580.565,"text":"在這一次的災情我們看到另外一個問題就是說以我們台南來講的話我有60萬頭豬可是顯然就是說這種豬舍過於老舊開放式的豬舍太多了比例太多了所以就是說在這裡要跟院長跟部長拜託是不是有辦法啟動就是2021年開始你們有提出了一個"},{"start":582.766,"end":596.254,"text":"計畫47億的一個水聯市互壓水聯市的這個計畫有辦法這個其實是做得很好了是不是再重新啟動我們也持續一直在輔導我們的養豬社去改進水聯市的這個部分"},{"start":597.054,"end":621.461,"text":"那這個我想我們的計畫在未來幾年我們都會持續趁著這個重大的一個這個非洲豬瘟其實非洲豬瘟如果不是廚藝的養豬的話其實很難會去發生非洲豬瘟我想這個部長你來行你很了解那我們是不是要趁著這一個時候就是說我們把這一個廚藝的養豬做一個什麼樣的一個精進"},{"start":624.941,"end":649.846,"text":"我跟你們報告 廚餘養豬的部分我們有短中長期的規劃短期之內要恢復的時候我們有一些前提包括這些監控的設備一定要及時而不是用上傳照片的中長期的部分我們就會考慮整體國內的這些廚餘怎麼樣再利用達到一個環境也比較穩定的情況所以短中長期我想我們隨時再滾動跟環境部再一起檢查"},{"start":650.026,"end":669.066,"text":"好 院長 我想再一次就是說從這一次回收豬瘟到底這個豬瘟的病毒它是從哪邊來是境外的一個感染還是包裹還是移工現在我們顯然你們沒有給我們答案這個是我們一直迫切需要答案的那我也希望就是說"},{"start":669.827,"end":692.112,"text":"可以因為台中是每一天每一天他給的給的這個記者會那還是說他所有的一個新聞稿我們看不到這一個答案所以我想在這裡也提醒部長還有就是在未來未來就是說第二次萬一有破口的話第二次我們怎麼樣去就是維持處理這個也是大家擔心的這次這個案例場跟關聯場的關係連結起來我們清楚的看到"},{"start":699.034,"end":708.33,"text":"問題出在這個處於該徵組未徵組該查核未查核 該監控未查核所以一定要短期間內如果要有條件的恢復的話"},{"start":710.623,"end":730.704,"text":"這個設備監控跟法規加嚴處罰這一定要完備再來我們現在內部就這個案例場已經控制在單一的案例場上面但是我們還要加強的是不會再有從邊境進來的所以明天我們會去看邊境的管理我希望從內而外把它再做安全的檢查一次只有更趨嚴絕對不會放鬆"},{"start":732.936,"end":749.487,"text":"院長 我想這個整個養豬產業是關係到就是全台灣這個周邊的一個產業的兩千多億如果你還要讓廚藝這八趴的廚藝繼續就是說讓它變成是一個養豬的養豬每天達到三個條件而且地方政府要努力它才能夠維持但這幾天的豬的去化它會變成一個環境部很大的課程不會共同"},{"start":764.463,"end":792.809,"text":"谢谢赖会员委员的咨询谢谢卓院长 农业部长 贝勋谢谢卓院会我们本日排定咨询的委员均已经咨询询答完毕非常谢谢卓院长及相关部会首长列席来答询也谢谢王洪威委员王振旭委员沈伯扬委员一起参与我们今天的咨询11月11号星期二上午9点我们继续开会进行经济组织咨询现在休息好 谢谢卓院长"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":617,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（16時18分）謝謝主席。有請院長，還有農業部部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、農業部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。"],["陳部長駿季：賴委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：非常感謝院長，10月28日宣布丹娜絲颱風所有的災民加碼2萬元的決定，這對臺南鄉親來講，是及時雨，比普發現金的1萬元對他們來講更有效。在這裡要跟院長做個探討，在臺南市造冊的這些災民，我們造冊的大概有4萬6,801件，屋頂修繕透過中央協助已經修繕完成的大概已經有1,022件，剩下的這些鄉親，他們可能存在了一些年紀比較大、他們不會上網的，還有在修繕的這段時間，他們非常的忙碌，所以沒有辦法去區公所登記的，有沒有機會協助這些人，讓他們在兩萬塊的造冊名單裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員關心。這個方式的適用對象，是針對那些自行修繕者，但如果當時已經經過政府的媒合，有幫他修繕了，或經過社會公益團體認養，甚或政府已經全額幫他完成修繕的……"],["賴委員惠員：是，沒有錯。"],["卓院長榮泰：這些要先排除在外，因為我們已經盡到了幫忙重整家園……"],["賴委員惠員：對，沒有錯。"],["卓院長榮泰：其他自己修繕的，也許已經修繕，也許沒有修繕的，我們認為這時候社會各界的善款已經累積起來，而我們應該怎麼去處理，並儘快發放善款？所以我們針對這些自行修繕的受災居民給予兩萬塊，再給他多一點點重整家園的補助。"],["賴委員惠員：對。院長，我現在是說撇除這些人以外，其實還存在一些災民，這些人有沒有機會重新到區公所登記，然後我們也是補他兩萬塊呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛講的那一段是已經有登記在案了，所以我們就直接入他的帳，至於其他的部分到底是什麼樣態？對此地方政府應該要有一個整理，看到底是什麼樣態。如果是面積比較小的，地方政府也補了一部分，後來我們也加了。此外還有些什麼樣態是當初沒有登記到的，這點我們沒有辦法在這裡做了解，不過委員可以提供我們資料，讓我們可以進一步去了解，跟地方政府來做整理。"],["賴委員惠員：我把資料給院長，我們希望這個補助不只是有人領到而已，而是所有受災的人都可以領到另外的兩萬塊。事後我再把資料給院長。","再來，謝謝部長這次對非洲豬瘟的處理。經過15天的封堵，今天已經開始屠宰，也恢復了拍賣。部長，今天的價錢看起好像、顯然還不錯，你有把它撐住了！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這是我最近第一次看到委員面帶一點微笑，面帶一點輕鬆的微笑，我剛剛還謝謝部長的辛苦。"],["賴委員惠員：事實上我們也非常非常害怕。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，到4點半左右時，整個豬價最高到112塊，然後單隻的有到118塊、120塊，這就不要講了。平均大概將近101塊左右。"],["賴委員惠員：雲林到112塊，可是在我們臺南其實才九十幾塊。"],["陳部長駿季：95、96塊。"],["賴委員惠員：對，95、96塊。部長，現在最大的困難，也就是本席要跟你們探討的是，雖然補助已經上來了，但一隻豬的成本要7,000塊！這7,000塊裡，一隻補助300塊……"],["陳部長駿季：810塊。"],["賴委員惠員：一隻810塊，而且有吃廚餘跟吃飼料兩種，所以當中是有差異的。其實補助是遠遠不足的，你看……"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，我們是補助這15天的……也就是豬隻滯留在豬場，不能上市的這15天的飼料費用。"],["賴委員惠員：當然……"],["陳部長駿季：所以我們計算過。"],["賴委員惠員：你看，豬吃一斤飼料要18塊，所以一隻豬每天就要多吃500塊……"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，沒有那麼多啦！"],["賴委員惠員：有啦！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有！"],["賴委員惠員：我跟你說……"],["陳部長駿季：沒關係，我們會後再來討論。"],["賴委員惠員：我要跟院長報告，現在每一隻豬都養到差不多140公斤、150公斤……"],["卓院長榮泰：130公斤，或135公斤。"],["賴委員惠員：在這15天裡。所以我們現在要來探討的是……補助是另外一個議題，我們再討論。當然，大家可以共體時艱，不過問題在於我們看到農業部畜牧司所提出的資料，也就是從今天開始到明年3月，每天要多殺2,000隻豬……"],["陳部長駿季：差不多3,000左右。"],["賴委員惠員：每天3,000隻，請問要怎麼去化這39萬頭豬呢？你有沒有想到這些問題？這是豬農比較擔心的。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，現在滯留的總共有35到39萬隻，我們現在正在統計。這在非常短時間內是進不到市場的，而且一旦進到市場後，第一個，屠宰量的問題，每天的屠宰量我們必須考慮；第二個，每天的拍賣量我們要考慮；第三個，當量太多的時候，價格是撐不住的，所以我們現在是要有次序地把毛豬上市，並採經過登記的方式。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，你已經講到問題點了，萬一豬價崩盤的話，如果你用這樣的消化方式，其實我們是擔心的，你這樣絕對消化不完的……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員惠員：你要殺豬，如果是冷凍豬的話，有沒有地方放？當然是有地方放，不管是台糖還是各大畜牧冷凍廠……"],["陳部長駿季：瞭解，我跟委員報告，我們有一部分的豬是直接拉到屠宰場不經過批發的，過去是15%，我們會做一個調整，我們要維持批發價，如果價格低到某個程度的時候，我們會請冷凍廠商進來拉豬，所以我們會去撐住一些基本價格。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，價錢低到什麼樣的程度，你會出來護盤？你今天有沒有護盤？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在沒辦法說這個……"],["賴委員惠員：沒有，你一定要給我們一個底線大概在哪裡嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我沒辦法……"],["賴委員惠員：比如你告訴我會維持在90塊、95塊左右還是95塊以下，你總要讓大家有一個心理準備。"],["陳部長駿季：我現在沒辦法講這個，因為我們在做價格的監控部分……"],["賴委員惠員：你現在沒有辦法講，私底下可不可以讓我知道？"],["陳部長駿季：也沒辦法。"],["賴委員惠員：也沒辦法？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我們……"],["賴委員惠員：這樣的話，我們對於全部的計畫都沒有辦法掌控，萬一我們的豬價崩盤怎麼辦呢？這是比股市崩盤更嚴重的事耶！"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們國內有20個肉品市場，對於每天的拍賣價，我們一直在監控，如果有相關不正常下跌的情況，我們會請……"],["賴委員惠員：院長，你要想一下，這39萬頭豬如果不殺的話，牠會越吃越大耶……"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解啊！"],["賴委員惠員：大隻豬有兩種價格，宰豬的話是不值錢……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，農業部對未來幾個月都有一套標準的去化量。"],["賴委員惠員：不是！現在就是在跟你探討，因為這個去化量其實是被養豬協會存疑的，我們對這個是感到擔心的。院長，我是獸醫師，所以我對這個領域多多少少有一些瞭解，所以我擔心這39萬頭豬用5個月來去化的話，我跟你講，這個市場會亂掉啊！"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我們這樣的操作方式是跟所有的養豬協會這邊討論，然後我們也跟冷凍公會討論，我們也跟肉品市場討論，每個禮拜都有一個供銷的調度會議，所以我們……"],["賴委員惠員：所以會隨時調整嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，這個一定是滾動調整的。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，雖然這個是滾動調整，可是我還是希望豬價可以維持在110元、120元，因為豬隻會越養越大隻，你不知道要怎麼辦，你知道嗎？這個是一個很嚴重的問題。","這一次的災情我們還看到另外一個問題，以我們臺南來講，我有60萬頭豬，可是顯然我們的豬舍過於老舊，開放式豬舍的比例太多了，所以在這裡要跟院長跟部長拜託，因為2021年開始你們有提出了一個47億的負壓水簾式計畫，這個其實做得很好，是不是可以再重新啟動這樣的專案？"],["陳部長駿季：我們也持續一直在輔導我們的養豬舍去改進水簾式的這個部分，我想我們的計畫在未來幾年都會持續，讓它可以更精進。"],["賴委員惠員：就是希望趁著這次重大的這個非洲豬瘟議題，如果不是用廚餘養豬的話，其實很難會發生非洲豬瘟啦！我想部長很內行，對這個也很瞭解，我們是不是要趁著這個時候把廚餘養豬去做怎麼樣的精進呢？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，對於廚餘養豬的部分，我們有短、中、長期的規劃，短期之內要恢復的時候，我們有一些前提，包括這些監控的設備一定要即時，而不是用上傳照片的；中長期的部分，我們會考慮整體國內的廚餘要怎麼樣再利用，達到環境比較穩定的情況。所以短中長期我們隨時在滾動，並跟環境部一起檢討。"],["賴委員惠員：院長，就這次的非洲豬瘟來說，到底這個豬瘟的病毒是從哪邊來的？是境外感染，還是包裹，還是移工，現在你們還沒有給我們答案喔，這是我們一直迫切需要知道答案的，我也希望可以……因為從臺中市每一天的記者會及提出的新聞稿，我們看不到這個答案，所以我想在這裡也提醒部長，未來第二次萬一有破口的話，第二次我們怎麼樣維持處理，這個也是大家擔心的。"],["卓院長榮泰：兩件事跟委員報告，這一次的案例場跟關聯場的關係連結起來，我們清楚地看到問題出在這個廚餘該蒸煮而未蒸煮、該查核未查核、該監控未監控，所以在短期間內如果要有條件的恢復的話，這個設備、監控跟法規加嚴處罰一定要完備。再來，我們現在內部已經控制在單一的案例場了，但是我們還要加強的是不會再有從邊境進來的，所以明天我們會去看邊境的管理，我希望從內而外再做一次安全的檢查，只有更趨嚴，絕對不會放鬆。"],["賴委員惠員：院長，整個養豬產業及全臺灣周邊相關聯產業的產值是兩千多億，如果還要讓這8%的廚餘養豬繼續存在，就是讓它變成是一個養豬破口的話，我覺得非洲豬瘟我們會很難去處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：它必須達到三個條件，而且地方政府要同意才能夠恢復，但在這段期間廚餘的去化，會變成環境部一個很大的課題，我們會共同克服。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴惠員委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、農業部長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已經詢答完畢，非常謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢，也謝謝王鴻薇委員、王正旭委員、沈伯洋委員一起參與我們今天的質詢。","11月11號（星期二）上午9點繼續開會，進行經濟組之質詢。現在休息，謝謝卓院長。","休息（16時31分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}},{"id":"165191","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165191","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f0d9b491b59ff0e8b9da8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad87311b1cec9fb31ec975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"16:05:08 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部長好本席首先要針對這個風電的議題表達對中央的肯定在本席跟我們阪風電自救會共同的要求下我們中央終於願意發出公文明確的表示不贊成台東陸域風電的開發案守護我們美麗的海岸線那這也代表台東的心聲終於被中央聽見那接下來議題也希望中央能夠繼續聆聽地方的聲音"},{"start":53.559,"end":68.536,"text":"那這幾年極端氣候的影響之下我們台東位於這個海景第一排每一次颱風來就是首當其衝那造成的這個農損損失非常的巨大像我們資料這邊看到的這兩年颱風造成台東的這個農損金額就高達12億"},{"start":70.879,"end":85.662,"text":"那再加上災後復原重建的經費這個對於財力及次第五級的台東縣來說絕對是龐大的負擔這需要中央跟北京來合作來解決我們北省的問題那接下來我想要請院長部長看一段影片"},{"start":89.597,"end":101.49,"text":"路面滿是溪水已經看不到原本的道路這是位在泰馬里山金輪溪盤的部落聯絡道路由於連日降雨造成泰馬里山金輪溪暴漲溪水從堤防攻城"},{"start":103.295,"end":122.449,"text":"這個是0728豪雨期間泰瑪麗鄉金輪溪那個溪水暴漲的這個潰堤的畫面那先前在本席的強力者爭取下成功讓丹利斯颱風以及728豪雨災後重建特別條例把台東縣也納入這個條文說明裡面確保我們台東不會被遺忘"},{"start":123.229,"end":142.969,"text":"在這邊我也要感謝經濟部這兩年跟本縣跟台南管政府持續的爭取下成功爭取到中央核定10億的傾訴還有災後復建的經費包括去年山頭河颱風河川淤積的緊急輸進工程還有今年丹麗寺颱風以及0728豪雨的災後重建經費"},{"start":144.19,"end":163.878,"text":"想請院長簡單的回應這部分是不是可以督促我們經濟部還有相關單位如時如期的來執行全力的協助地方災後復原及重建請院長回應如果他已經是在特別預算特別的範圍當中我們當然希望盡快的速度能夠讓地方"},{"start":164.915,"end":193.902,"text":"得到在災區的民眾能夠恢復正常包括耕作包括生活尤其是農作的部分謝謝院長現在還有一個影響台東鄉親的一個很大的問題就是我們台東的鳳梅沙每年大概秋冬強勁的東北季風都會刮起沙塵影響我們居民的生活品質還有行車的安全台東縣從我們前縣長黃建勤時期就跟水利署來共同合作用水覆蓋的工法有效的改善鳳梅沙的問題"},{"start":194.662,"end":212.345,"text":"那水利署跟台東縣政府這每年也都有進行改善工程但是因為這幾年齁連續的颱風跟豪大雨也造成相關的設施都被重回那紅白沙都再次出現那很多地方像縱谷地區台東市都民眾都在抱怨齁所以這邊我要請院長跟部長再看這個影片"},{"start":216.559,"end":227.304,"text":"一波波風沙席捲而來將整片北南溪河闖染的灰蒙蒙大量細沙隨風飄散往鄰近部落跟社區吹去受到東北季風增強"},{"start":231.488,"end":258.985,"text":"很像在拍電影 拍電影黃沙滾滾 居民苦不堪言我們若是吃飯挑沙 連穿開都有沙這個如果對呼吸道比較脆弱的年長者或是小孩影響更大所以曾本席要求經濟部必須在十二月中以前完成抑制風飛沙的改善工程以確保接下來我們東北季風風飛沙對台東居民的影響能夠降到最低"},{"start":259.605,"end":271.935,"text":"如果說地方有經費需要追加的需求也務必全力來協助 請部長回去是不是可以立即來交辦來處理 請部長回應可以 可以 我們立即來交辦感謝 感謝部長 那真的很辛苦"},{"start":275.657,"end":299.45,"text":"還有雲林可能也會有我們會一併來趕快處理謝謝部長接下來我們再討論有關於電感地下化的議題本席要跟卓院長來請教今年8月我們院長到台東勘栽的時候有提到丹利寺颱風造成全國100多萬戶停電0728的豪雨也造成5萬多戶的停電楊柳颱風也造成30多萬戶停電"},{"start":300.53,"end":324.664,"text":"政府必須要解決颱風造成停電的問題電纜地下化就是關鍵吧這個不但可以減輕許多災後復原還有減輕我們重建的負擔院長當天也有提到說會要求經濟部跟台電啟動全國電纜地下化的評估像是台東就是優先的地區之一我想要請教院長目前評估的工作如何請院長回答"},{"start":325.189,"end":351.343,"text":"台電已經啟動這樣的一個全國性的分析針對包括地層下限易淹水地區或是地質脆弱地區排除在外之外對那個迎風面特別強的幾個我是記得有幾個路線他們已經展開第一期的這個設計跟籌劃的工作是不是請部長能夠再說明是 因為我們這一次的特別預算大概有編了80億來做這樣的事情"},{"start":352.859,"end":371.481,"text":"當然81要實施到全台灣當然是不夠的我們後續會陸續來編針對81的部分我們就像剛才院長提到的我們針對一些比較合適的而且急迫性的區域我們就優先來實施先這樣來做一些處理"},{"start":371.741,"end":394.449,"text":"這個非常重要 是不是兩個禮拜內可以提供本席份可以啦 兩個禮拜提供本席份台東這個區域電暖地下化的這個規劃跟報告我們這個選擇出來會跟地方政府或是跟委員討論一下那個地方是不是優先來實施感謝博定 感謝那再來我們再討論這個有關於水菌改善的問題這個邀請農業部部長"},{"start":397.212,"end":425.961,"text":"那個剛剛我們有提到關於災後重建的這個預算包括核酸的傾輸還有水利設施的費用還有一個重點就是農水路的灌溉到現在還沒有解決每年只要豪大雨台中幾個重要的幾個水郡像是關山池上鹿野跟北南的土地他就可能因為被豪雨沖沖回沒有辦法飲水影響農業的灌溉今天的丹利寺颱風跟0728豪雨又再次發生同樣的問題"},{"start":426.721,"end":435.452,"text":"造成台東縣這次二期稻作的茶養時間整個往後延嚴重影響稻農的生計保證很多農民都在懷念像這種事情"},{"start":437.236,"end":457.041,"text":"就是因為我們現在的感覺就是用現有的土地去擋水嘛它只要遇到豪雨它就整個土地被沖垮所以民眾都說水這麼多 溪水這麼多我就看它在用不著啊所以農民都會問說到底什麼時候才可以根本的改善農業部到底有沒有辦法來解決本省也要具體要求農業部要立即的來研議關山"},{"start":459.442,"end":467.239,"text":"池上、鹿野、北南的水峻改善計畫並優先的編列經費來進行改善守護我們台東地區的農民生計請保證來回應"},{"start":469.106,"end":495.035,"text":"我跟委員報告今年我大概去台東三四蓋特別在關山這邊的部分所以我們有一個計畫就是系統性的去解決台東地區的一個進入的一個灌溉從溪中然後拉到上面去做這個蓄水池然後再放下來所以我們現在已經有一個完整的規劃我們希望說透過這樣的一個方式能夠讓我們的水是最有效的利用"},{"start":495.515,"end":507.687,"text":"好 謝謝部長部長這個是不是在一個月內也可以提供資料給本席辦公室好 我們會後我想我請農水組來提供感謝博定那我們提到的風災就是要提到根據這個災害救助的部分"},{"start":508.598,"end":534.708,"text":"那因為這幾年隨著極端氣候的影響天災頻率越來越高光是這兩年我們剛才看到風災對台湯澤行的榮順就高達12億啦 12億元那我們現行的這個救助法規的規定卻趕不上天災的頻率跟受災害的程度像今年的寒海很多農民他已經申請過天然災害補助沒有想到今年夏天颱風又來 好雨又來那他這樣子就沒有辦法再申請嘛那問題是"},{"start":538.752,"end":553.005,"text":"每次的災害他可能都造成農民血本無歸還有另外一個狀況就是說現行的這個天然災害救助是用救助金是用成本的20%去計算但是災情他可能會造成農作全毀而且還需要"},{"start":553.866,"end":574.794,"text":"復原的成本所以你20%的救助金根本是沒夠的嘛這沒辦法去補充我們農民的基本的生活那今年八月份的時候卓院長在立法院備詢的時候其實有承諾說要提高我們天然災害救助金的上限那會請農業部盡快的來規劃那目前已經過了三個月了那我想請教院長目前規劃的進度是如何"},{"start":575.533,"end":595.793,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是有關天然災害本身的一個救助的整個制度的改變我們現在已經在規劃了但是我們過往就是每半年調整一次所以預計會在年底之前會做一個調整然後第二年開始實施因為已經發生的東西你去調整的時候那會造成很多的混亂"},{"start":597.809,"end":619.699,"text":"就是現在已經三個月了 那規劃大概是有沒有一個雛形出來我們現在規劃差不多 因為不只是世嘉齁包括特別是西部的非常多的這些作物我們同步在做檢討 那檢討完了以後我們在年底的時候就會公告新的一個辦法 包括它的一個補助的一個比例我們是不是可以將你們目前已經規劃的資料也跟本席幫這邊的聯繫一下"},{"start":620.799,"end":650.368,"text":"很抱歉喔 我想我們在整個完成的時候我們才會對外公告在這個之前也不方便我們可以跟委員討論就沒問題OK好 部長你知道本席的意思啦其實你們都很了解每年都是遇到一樣的情況啦不過我知道我們對香蕉啊 我都希望它那個安全性我們那個已經有補助了那個叫什麼 桿子我覺得要加強 要施生要加強那個上次院長在台東的時候對鳳梨施加的那個有沒有"},{"start":653.37,"end":676.248,"text":"本席有兩點建議第一個就是說我們要放寬現行天然災害救助上限的規定我們得以因應極端的氣候專案認定重災區的天然災害救助次數的上限我們把它放寬來幫助農民度過難關第二個就是我們因應物價還有產業成本的上漲調高天然災害的救助金額來保障農民的基本生計這邊也請院長來承諾"},{"start":678.45,"end":705.561,"text":"也責成我們農業部在兩週內趕快把一份報告給本席辦公室我是不是可以跟委員說明您這兩個元的就是我們在做這個天然災害救助的辦法的一個調整但是我剛才說了天然災害辦法的調整我們大概會在年底之前大概12月初我們就會公告然後不要說兩個禮拜就給你因為我們包括了所有的作物要一起時間差不多現在在兩個禮拜差不多了部長這部分再請跟辦公室這邊聯繫"},{"start":706.86,"end":733.239,"text":"那最後一個就是要來為台東的私家農請命就是去年中國大陸也取消了台灣私家零關稅的這個政策那我覺得這個一定會影響到台東整個私家的這個銷售量那加上今年喔市價可能會大出因為照這個情況沒有風災的情況下十二月份到一月初會有私家會大出藉此這些農民的薪水該怎麼辦雖然台東縣很積極的在推廣這個通路但是關稅的問題"},{"start":735.222,"end":746.326,"text":"你要怎麼樣解決世家的穩定產量要怎麼維護你要怎麼輔導農民讓他能夠有轉做的方式我想中央必須要有更多的作為因為時間的關係我想這部分也請農業部將你們這樣討論的結果來跟本席這邊來報告"},{"start":772.967,"end":773.508,"text":"謝謝黃建斌委員"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":533,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（16時5分）謝謝主席，我們有請行政院卓院長跟經濟部龔部長。"],["主席：麻煩再請行政院卓院長、經濟部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["龔部長明鑫：黃委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：院長好、部長好。本席首先要針對風電的議題表達對中央的肯定，在本席跟反風電自救會共同的要求下，我們中央終於願意發出公文，明確表示不贊成臺東陸域風電的開發案，守護我們美麗的海岸線，這也代表臺東的心聲終於被中央聽見，接下來的議題，也希望中央能夠繼續聆聽地方的聲音。","這幾年受極端氣候的影響之下，我們臺東位於海景第一排，每一次颱風來就是首當其衝，造成的農損損失非常巨大，像資料這邊看到的，這兩年颱風造成臺東的農損金額就高達12億，再加上災後復原重建的經費，這對於財力級次第五級的臺東縣來說，就絕對是龐大的負擔，這需要中央跟地方合作，來解決我們百姓的問題。","接下來，我想要請院長、部長看一段影片。","（播放影片）"],["黃委員建賓：影片是0728豪雨期間，太麻里鄉金崙溪溪水暴漲潰堤的畫面，先前在本席強力爭取下，成功讓丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別條例，把臺東縣也納入條文說明裡面，確保我們臺東不會被遺忘。在這邊，我也要感謝經濟部，這兩年在本席及臺南縣政府持續爭取下，成功爭取到中央核定10億元清疏，還有災後復建的經費，包括去年山陀兒颱風河川淤積的緊急疏濬工程，還有今年丹娜絲颱風及0728豪雨的災後重建經費。想請院長簡單回應，這部分是不是可以督促經濟部還有相關單位，如實、如期地執行，全力協助地方災後復原及重建？請院長回應。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果已經是在特別預算的範圍當中，我們當然希望以儘快的速度，讓災區的民眾能夠恢復正常，包括耕作、包括生活，尤其是農作的部分。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長。現在還有一個影響臺東鄉親很大的問題，就是我們臺東的風飛沙，每年大概秋冬，強勁的東北季風都會刮起沙塵，影響我們居民的生活品質還有行車安全，臺東縣從前縣長黃健庭時期就跟水利署共同合作，用水覆蓋的工法，有效改善風飛沙的問題。水利署跟臺東縣政府每年也都有進行改善工程，但是因為這幾年連續的颱風跟豪大雨，也造成相關設施都被沖毀，風沙又再度出現，很多地方像縱谷地區，臺東市民眾都在抱怨，所以這邊我要請院長跟部長再看一段影片。","（播放影片）"],["黃委員建賓：院長、部長，很像在拍電影吧！黃沙滾滾，居民苦不堪言，我們不只是吃飯配沙，連呼吸都有沙！這個如果對呼吸道比較脆弱的年長者或是小孩影響更大，所以本席要求經濟部必須在12月中以前，完成抑制風飛沙的改善工程，以確保接下來在冬天東北季風影響下，風飛沙對臺東居民的影響能夠降到最低，如果地方有經費需要追加的需求，也務必全力來協助，部長回去是不是可以立即交辦處理？請部長回應。"],["龔部長明鑫：可以、可以，我們立即來交辦。"],["黃委員建賓：感謝部長，那真的很痛苦。"],["龔部長明鑫：也不只臺東這樣，還有雲林可能也會有，我們會一併趕快處理。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長。接下來我們再來討論有關於電桿地下化的議題，本席要跟卓院長請教，今年8月院長到臺東勘災的時候，有提到丹娜絲颱風造成全國一百多萬戶停電、0728豪雨造成五萬多戶的停電、楊柳颱風也造成三十多萬戶停電，政府必須要解決颱風造成停電的問題，電纜地下化就是關鍵，不但可以減輕許多災後復原，還有減輕我們重建的負擔。院長當天也有提到會要求經濟部跟台電啟動全國電纜地下化的評估，像是臺東就是優先的地區之一，我想要請教院長，目前評估的工作如何？請院長回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：台電已經啟動全國性的分析，包括針對地層下陷、易淹水地區，或是地質脆弱地區排除在外，除此之外，對迎風面特別強的幾個……我記得有幾個路線，他們已經展開第一期的設計跟籌劃的工作，是不是請部長再說明？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為我們這一次的特別預算大概編了80億來做這樣的事情，80億要實施到全臺灣當然是不夠的，我們後續會陸續來編，針對這個80億的部分，就像剛才院長提到的，我們針對一些比較合適且急迫性的區域，我們優先來實施，先這樣來做一些處理。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，這非常重要，是不是兩個禮拜內可以提供本席一份資料？"],["龔部長明鑫：可以。"],["黃委員建賓：兩個禮拜提供本席一份臺東區域電纜地下化的規劃跟報告。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們選擇出來後，也會跟地方政府或是跟委員討論一下那個地方是不是優先實施。"],["黃委員建賓：感謝部長。接下來，我們再來討論有關於水圳改善的問題，這個要請農業部部長。","剛剛我們有提到關於災後重建的預算，包括河川清疏，還有水利設施的費用，還有一個重點就是農水路的灌溉到現在還沒有解決，每年只要豪大雨，臺東幾個重要的水圳，像是關山、池上、鹿野跟卑南的土堤，就可能因為被豪雨沖毀，造成沒辦法引水，而影響農業的灌溉。","今年丹娜絲颱風跟0728豪雨又再次發生同樣的問題，造成臺東縣這次二期稻作插秧時間整個往後延，嚴重影響稻農的生計。部長，很多農民都在反映，發生這種事情，就是因為我們現在的工法是用現有的土堤去擋水，只要遇到豪雨整個土堤就被沖垮，所以民眾就說溪水這麼多，我就看得到、用不到，農民都會問到底什麼時候才可以根本改善？農業部到底有沒有方法解決？本席這邊也要具體要求農業部立即研議關山、池上、鹿野、卑南的水圳改善計畫，並優先編列經費來進行改善，守護我們臺東地區的農民生計，請部長來回應。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，今年我大概去臺東三、四次，特別在關山的部分，我們有一個計畫是系統性的解決臺東地區圳路的灌溉，水從溪中拉到上面去做蓄水池，然後再放下來，我們現在已經有一個完整的規劃，我們希望透過這樣的方式，能夠讓我們的水達到最有效的利用。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝部長。部長，這個是不是1個月內也可以提供資料給本席辦公室？"],["陳部長駿季：會後我請農水署提供。"],["黃委員建賓：感謝部長。我們提到風災，就是要提到災害救助的部分，因為這幾年受極端氣候的影響，天災頻率越來越高，光是這兩年，如同我們剛才看到的，颱風對臺東造成的農損就高達12億元，我們現行救助法的規定卻趕不上天災的頻率跟受災害的程度，像今年的寒害，很多農民已經申請過天然災害補助，沒有想到今年夏天颱風又來、豪雨又來，他這樣就沒有辦法再申請，問題是沒人知道颱風一年要來幾次，每次的災害可能都會造成農民血本無歸。還有另外一個狀況，現行天然災害的救助金是用成本的20%去計算，但是災情可能會造成農作全毀，而且還需要復原的成本，所以成本20%的救助金是不夠的，這沒辦法保障我們農民基本的生活。今年8月份卓院長在立法院備詢的時候，其實有承諾要提高天然災害救助金的上限，會請農業部儘快規劃，目前已經過了3個月了，我想請教院長，目前規劃的進度如何？"],["陳部長駿季：我先跟委員報告，有關天然災害救助整個制度的改變，我們現在已經在規劃了，但是我們過往是每半年調整一次，所以預計在年底之前會做調整，然後第二年開始實施。因為已經發生的東西，你再去調整的時候，會造成很多的混亂。"],["黃委員建賓：現在已經3個月了，請問有沒有規劃出大概的雛形？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在規劃的差不多了，因為不只是釋迦，包括特別是西部非常多的這些作物，我們同步在做檢討，檢討完了以後，在年底就會公告新的辦法，包含它的補助比例。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，是不是會後可以將你們目前已經規劃的資料，跟本席辦公室聯繫一下？因為我們農民也想了解一下。"],["陳部長駿季：很抱歉，我們在整個完成的時候，才會對外公告，在這之前不方便……我們可以跟委員討論，這沒問題，而後續……"],["黃委員建賓：OK。部長，你知道本席的意思啦！你們都很了解，每年都是遇到一樣的情況。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道我們對香蕉安全性，那個叫什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：針對那個桿子，我們已經有補助了。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我覺得要加強那個桿子及支撐。"],["黃委員建賓：部長……"],["陳部長駿季：上次院長在臺東的時候，對於鳳梨釋迦的那個支柱……"],["黃委員建賓：鐵條、鐵條。"],["陳部長駿季：對，那個都有補助。"],["黃委員建賓：本席有兩點建議：第一個，我們要放寬現行天然災害救助上限的規定，得以因應極端的氣候，專案認定重災區的天然災害救助次數上限，把它放寬來幫助農民度過難關；第二個，我們要因應物價及產業成本上漲，調高天然災害救助金額，保障農民基本生計。這邊也請院長承諾，並責成農業部在兩週內，趕快把一份報告給本席辦公室。"],["陳部長駿季：我是不是可以跟委員說明？您這兩個原則，就是我們在做天然災害救助辦法的調整，但是我剛才提到天然災害辦法的調整，我們大概會在年底之間，也就是大概12月初，我們就會公告……"],["黃委員建賓：12月。"],["陳部長駿季：不要說兩個禮拜就給你，因為我們包括了所有的作物要一起……"],["黃委員建賓：時間也差不多啊！現在離12月也差不多兩個禮拜。部長，這部分再請跟辦公室這邊聯繫啦！","最後，要來為臺東的釋迦農請命，去年中國大陸取消了臺灣釋迦零關稅的政策，我覺得這一定會影響到臺東整個釋迦的銷售量，加上今年釋迦產量可能會大增，因為照沒有風災的情況下，12月到1月初，釋迦產量會大增，屆時這些農民的心血該怎麼辦？雖然臺東縣很積極的在推廣通路，但對於關稅的問題，你們要怎麼樣解決？釋迦的穩定產量要怎麼維護？你們要怎麼輔導農民，讓他們能夠有轉作的方式？我想中央必須要有更多的作為。因為時間的關係，我想這部分請農業部將你們討論的結果，跟本席這邊報告。"],["陳部長駿季：我們對釋迦本身的輔導有一套系統，但是我也建議臺東的釋迦，因為現在中國那邊已經開了嘛！相對的對我們輔導機制又不理不睬，我覺得大家要一起共同開發不同的市場。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我們還是要討論這產業之後要怎麼面對國際的情勢啦！謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：了解。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長、謝謝部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃建賓委員質詢。麻煩請行政院將黃建賓委員索取的資料送到研究室，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來登記第17位高金素梅委員之質詢改書面，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員高金素梅書面質詢：","美國總統川普2025年亞洲之行，先後和馬來西亞、泰國、柬埔寨、越南、日本、韓國確認了貿易協議。在這些國家中，與我們在國際貿易上比較具有競爭關係的，就是日本和韓國了。","川普分別在10月28和29號與日本以及韓國政府確認了七月底談定的貿易協議具體內容。這兩項協議之中，都包括了：關稅稅率、投資承諾、投資重點、市場開放規模、提高國防預算等項目。顯然，這些項目正是美國政府「關稅換投資」策略中，討價還價的談判武器。","這次美國制定對等關稅時的主要依據，就是美國經濟分析局所提出的「2024年美國貿易逆差排行榜」，而我們中華民國與日本和韓國都排進了前十名。日本排名第八，美國的逆差是685億美元。韓國排名第九，美國的逆差是660億美元。至於我們，排名第七，美國逆差是739億。根據中央銀行楊金龍總裁最近的預估，今年美國對我們的逆差將進一步升高到1,200億美元！從這樣貿易逆差數據的比較看來，美國對我們中華民國的貿易施壓，只會比日本韓國更大，貿易談判的結果，根本不樂觀。","那到底有多不樂觀呢？從政府到今天為止還吞吞吐吐，不願說明具體細節的態度，就能知道情況有多嚴重。但就算政府不敢說，在台美貿易談判過程中，許多蛛絲馬跡早就浮現，加上美方時不時地提出他們敲詐勒索的條件，貿易談判的結果已經呼之欲出。我們就依據日本、韓國與美國簽訂貿易協議的框架，推斷台美之間的談判結果，應該就是：","1.關稅稅率：15%，不疊加關稅。","2.對美投資的承諾與重點：","a.對美國擴大投資的總額是4,000億美元，其中台積電赴美投資1650億，台灣半導體產業生態系連動遷廠到美國投資約2,000億（目前仍然有350億的缺口）。","b.能源購買：投資建設阿拉斯加天然氣管道200億，設施2030年完成後，每年購買600萬噸天然氣。","c.台灣半導體的國際市佔率，兩年之內與美國五五分。","3.中華民國對美國的產品及農產品零關稅全面開放投資與市場，解除所有美方所謂的「貿易障礙」。","4.增加國防預算：2030年前，中華民國國防預算達到GDP 5%，約1兆三千億台幣。","依據這樣的協議框架，台灣對美國的貿易談判結果，根本就是血本無歸。而民進黨政府為了掩蓋談判慘敗，所捏造的那些政治話術，都將在美國明碼標價的敲詐勒索之前，一一被搓破。","例如，行政院副院長鄭麗君信誓旦旦絕不接受的「台美晶片產能五五分」的宣示，美國總統川普亞洲之行後就公開宣布：「2年內，我們將占據40%到50%的晶片市場」。顯然美國並不接受民進黨政府的主張，美國不接受，台灣的談判小組就不敢堅持。又例如，經濟部長龔明鑫所謂的：「到美國去設立類科學園區是量能延伸」的說法，也已經被川普打臉。川普說：「……各大公司正從台灣撤離。他們因為關稅而湧入美國，若沒有課關稅，他們就不會這麼做。」半導體產業帶著量能外移美國，讓美國再次偉大，才是實況。","就算民進黨政府要將半導體的先進製程和研發保留在台灣，副總統蕭美琴已經承諾要遷移到美國的整個半導體產業生態系，也將會在美國生產。對半導體產業的公司而言，產品課關稅還是零關稅有那麼難選擇嗎？這不是政府所宣傳的「企業自主規劃的台灣模式」，這是企業為了生存、不得不出走美國的唯一出路。這不是產業外移，什麼才是產業外移呢？","此外，民進黨政府在擴大對美國投資的「台灣模式」中，所強調的「產業投資由台灣企業自主規劃、政府整合；政府建立金融信用保證機制，鼓勵投資」的方式，顯然不符合美國政府最近所簽署的貿易協議的相關規格。美國對於日韓投資美國，都提出了具體的金額，韓國是3,500億美元，日本是5,500億美元，美國甚至對於這個投資項目的運用方式和操作細節都有所規定，美國和日本甚至還成立了投資的雙邊委員會，美國有權決定投資的項目。","如果，民進黨政府在這次貿易談判中所追求的目標之一就是把關稅從20%降低到15%，並且不疊加，那同是關稅15%不疊加的日本和韓國已經付出的代價，中華民國憑什麼能夠是例外呢？行政院的談判團隊和美國談判得越久，談判的空間就被擠壓得越小，中華民國全民要付出的代價就會越來越大。別的不說，光是台美談判情況不明，就衝擊了產業界，像台灣績優的產業捷安特，就被美國以「強迫勞動」的名義，扣押了產品，截至10月份，台灣被強迫休無薪假的勞工就超過了8,500人。","所以，全台灣的老百姓都想知道：","這次的台美關稅貿易談判，台灣要付出多大的代價，去幫「美國再次偉大」？","如果民進黨政府一定要用那麼巨大的代價討好美國，那這些代價會是什麼？","中華民國如果開放美國所有產品進口零關稅，請問這些美國產品進口的市場量能有多大？台灣產業將在這一波衝擊中，遭受多大的損失？","中華民國如果要依照美國和賴清德總統的意見，替美國「排除非關稅貿易障礙」，台灣的產業和食品安全會遭受多大的損衝擊和損失？","一旦中華民國和美國確認了關稅貿易協議，台灣的半導體產業和生態系，還有其他產業將會有多少公司和廠商外移到美國？這樣的產業外移將會製造出多少失業人口？","這些問題，行政院必須提供詳盡的數據、資料以及推估結果。","眼看中華民國與美國的關稅貿易協定即將公布，台灣人民想要聽到的，不會再是民進黨政府的官員們粉飾太平的話術了，大家想要知道的是具體的損失，還有止損方案。"],["主席：接下來，本日最後一位質詢委員，請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}},{"id":"165190","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165190","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f05b9db47832eb9deeda8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad873849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"15:54:24 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麻煩邀請我們卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢經濟部長也可以一起麻煩請經濟部長備詢"},{"start":25.114,"end":51.177,"text":"廖委員好院長午安我們這個地方比較低政治的話題我們先討論一下就是平溪的天燈其實它對於不只對新北市它是台灣一個非常光光重要的一個元素現在新北市政府它擬具了一個天燈的自治的條例那也送到行政院來了行政院其實是分到經濟部這可能太細的事情您不一定會知道目前有在做一些討論因為其實"},{"start":53.478,"end":80.633,"text":"他自治條例的精神就是過去天燈會產生一些問題包括環保的問題是許多人在認為詬病的或者是他有時候會產生一些火災甚至燒到民房的一些賠償問題所以說這個文化或者是觀光的體驗也必須要隨著時代與時機進行達到共贏的一個目標所以說他們提出了這個自治條例那未來包括這個標章的一個制度那會有收費那包括未來的支出對環境的永續以及"},{"start":81.233,"end":106.903,"text":"民眾的一個賠償的部分在這個知識條例裡面大概多有著墨現在送到了行政院來那院長對於這樣子的一個朝永續與時之距的一個知識條例您的態度是不是原則上支持報告委員知識條例的內容沒有看到但是平溪的天燈我個人過去也曾經去過我覺得那是非常有特色的當然我們要兼顧到是安全環保以及當地居民他們接受度的問題"},{"start":107.563,"end":128.952,"text":"那這個如果有妥善的規劃跟很合理的溝通大家能夠達成一致自治條例的內容如何我們會採取正面的方式因為這個原章送到經濟部了經濟部也很感謝經濟部同仁跨部會都在協調當中了原章大家對於條文的內容大家都是支持這樣子的一個方向我們不討論太細但方向是這樣對的沒有錯但是其實內政部現在有一個問題就是說"},{"start":130.393,"end":144.689,"text":"他認為這個自治條例所收到的錢叫做這個自費錢屬於特別功課那它不屬於規費那所以在特別功課上面它有一些法律的要求它必須要法源地方政府才能夠"},{"start":146.471,"end":169.588,"text":"來對這個他們的這個自治條例來實施現在卡在這個問題那這個可能是一個跨部會的問題那是不是能夠請院長如果說你認同這個方向我不是說你今天要跟我承諾就是要核定但是目前卡在這個特別功課的議題上面導致內政部目前沒有辦法他是有一些異議的那是請我們的院長後續再去跨部會來做一些協調讓這個天然的自治條例盡快的通過"},{"start":171.389,"end":199.575,"text":"規費或費用收入必須要依法所以在法源允許的情況底下這不是規費這是特別功課對特別功課如果是一樣那必須要有一個合法的法源那無論是內政相關或是財政相關我必須要跟他們多多溝通但是我認為能夠協助地方發展特色這個前提如果擺上去的話我們可以做其他的修正好 謝謝院長再麻煩院長責成我們的所有的單位議題來努力那接下來下一個議題"},{"start":200.615,"end":223.266,"text":"就是這幾年其實台灣許多的買車的民眾都有在討論一個議題就是他們認為為什麼大陸的車輛沒有辦法進來因為可能一樣的車子大陸製的車子比如特斯拉好了我們不要講大陸的品牌比如說特斯拉他在大陸的一個售價大概就是台灣的大概一半左右而已那許多的民眾都有疑問說那為什麼不讓他進來台灣銷售"},{"start":224.306,"end":247.227,"text":"那當然我知道我們政府一定有一些相關的規範我也沒有說想要趁這一次的質詢就要改偏車的方向或是院長承諾什麼東西但是我認為我們的行政院應該要有這樣子的一個政策的一個說明因為民眾很多都不知道為什麼大陸車不能進來那不能進來我相信一定是於法有據那這個於法有據的背後的精神是什麼我會請我們的行政院對我們的許多要購車的民眾來說明一下"},{"start":249.643,"end":272.919,"text":"我們會也會負責說明當然我們對一些產品的進口當然他不能違反到國家的安全這是最基本的那另外還有的就是說油車會影響到國家安全嗎對這不一定那個我是說其中一個方向另外一個是對等談判的問題就是說他對我們有開放我們也會對他有開放台灣的車可以賣到大陸嗎不行"},{"start":273.752,"end":289.439,"text":"裕隆不是過去 他是在那邊落地所以對等的部分要開放而且也不能獨支在那邊所以這個還是要透過一些彼此雙方的談判才有辦法去解決的問題"},{"start":290.279,"end":312.398,"text":"那面對這樣廣大的構成民眾的一些訴求啦我們未來行政院會不會去做一些討論比如說你說的對等談判會去談嗎報告委員喔 這個電動車的部分我們當然要安全注意特別高因為它涉及到很多資安的問題那如果是電池啦或是整個車的底盤這個我們是有明文規定是不准進來的"},{"start":313.458,"end":321.862,"text":"如果要來這裡設廠他必須完全符合我們的自治率再來他如果整車的進來飛電動車整車要進來又採取低價競銷的方式難道委員不覺得對國內的產業會造成重大衝擊嗎"},{"start":328.683,"end":348.298,"text":"一部分是你們的說法是重大衝擊購車民眾的看法是充分競爭好沒關係我這部分我不說談就是我們對於大陸製的車輛我不是講品牌喔是大陸製的車輛所以我才拿特斯拉來做一個比例比例比例啦齁就是說外國的品牌歐美的品牌在大陸生產製造的也沒有辦法進來那"},{"start":349.899,"end":366.76,"text":"我們對大陸是特別的一個規定比如說你剛剛講的安全的規定資安的規定這應該是所有一視同仁都應該要有的一個規範但是我們就直接明定大陸製的汽車不能夠進口到台灣來賣這件事情"},{"start":367.541,"end":392.478,"text":"他是一個獨立的規定那我們的法源依據跟我們的精神到底是怎麼樣就國安的標準來看我們對資安是高度重視這一點我也要請委員能夠重視電車不要沒關係中國製的電動車輛跟外國其他國家是不一樣的安全你說資安我就順著你的話講沒關係電車不要那油車呢那油車剛剛說要互惠對等好所以說現在行政院我確定是不是行政院至少經濟部長講"},{"start":394.366,"end":398.117,"text":"油車的部分是不是對等是我們最重要的一個問題所在"},{"start":399.625,"end":426.186,"text":"對 因為所以只要願意雙方互相開放那沒有牽扯到資訊安全 國家安全那應該就是要開放嘛所有的汽車都是最敏感的因為汽車牽涉到可能他有限量的問題還有關稅多高的問題怎麼開放的問題是比較複雜的每個國家都有這個問題我們針對大陸就有特殊的規定嘛那這個規定的來由是什麼嘛中國沒有跟我們談這項啊所以說"},{"start":428.248,"end":445.325,"text":"我們也沒有意願去談嘛對不對那如果說他們來主動跟我們談或者是我們的民眾希望經濟部去談你們會排斥嗎?可以談嘛不違反國家安全的情況下貿易對等的情況下院長跟部長認為這是可以談的嘛"},{"start":447.037,"end":462.752,"text":"但是要符合 談的條件要符合我們對國內市場的管理啊包括法規 包括如果在這裡要落地設場所有的車輛進來都要遵守法規 安全的法規嘛對不對這一定要遵守啊 這本來就是汽車進口都要有經過安全檢驗測試嘛"},{"start":464.033,"end":483.558,"text":"每個人都要有嘛不是共同的標準都一致那現在大陸的問題就是對等互惠的問題跟國安的問題嘛資通訊的安全的問題因為所有的進口車進來也都要經過我們的檢驗這些一定都要啊全世界對於現在這種低價請銷也都有相當防制的作用有些國家他是用提高關稅"},{"start":484.838,"end":500.585,"text":"有些國家是用提高關稅來當作一個請銷的策略嘛對不對但是報告委員現在只要是通訊設備的部分我們是不允許中國進來的所以即便他是整車也要把這個通訊設備換掉他就是遊車嘛"},{"start":501.945,"end":529.806,"text":"郵車它也有通訊設備啊好沒關係但至少我們要有一套標準出來才能去討論嘛對不對我們要知道我們的標準或者說讓民眾理解我們行政院的一個政策他也才不會誤解我們行政院或者是兩岸未來在談判的時候也有一個標準嘛對不對我們會說明清楚好謝謝這郵車的部分這個汽車進口的部分就到這邊喔那另外一個比較這個跟這個今天市主沒來啦就是剛剛王侯衛委員有問到的就是這個"},{"start":534.057,"end":551.814,"text":"衛福部補充保費的問題當然有掀起很大的波瀾剛剛的答詢部分院長是說要提高保費的方向就是要增加財源這個方向您大概是知道的但是比較細的部分您可能是看新聞報導才知道的是這樣嗎"},{"start":553.987,"end":579.844,"text":"看新聞報告是知道有一個預告那我們當然會從內部拿到一些訊息來看所以在這個石部長宣布之前他有給您看過裡面比較細的方案嗎我不知道的事情是說什麼時間要提出預告這個時間點不知道內容因為我們還沒有到達那個討論到一個完全的定案只是有幾項的原則你是方案不知道還是時間不知道"},{"start":581.131,"end":594.761,"text":"時間我不知道預告 發出預告的時間內容我們還沒有到完全內容確定的時候因為我只知道幾個大原則 比方我剛剛說過所以我問你 你知道大原則嗎補充保惠第一大原則是要讓收入高一點的國人多負擔一點我們認同 這方向認同"},{"start":601.225,"end":628.275,"text":"所以說院長剛剛從我們的對話當中應該是您知道一個大方向但是他宣布的細項並沒有提前跟您告知是這樣子嗎我沒有討論到一個定案的問題沒有討論到一個細項嗎好那我認為這個方向也是正確的但是不要讓他變成但是我有一句話30年來國人都受健保的保障現在是國人反過頭來要保障健保的時代大家也一定要有這樣的概念其實大家的意思就這樣而已好不好謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":629.235,"end":630.036,"text":"接下來登記第15位林黛華"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":424,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（15時54分）謝謝韓院長，麻煩邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["廖委員先翔：經濟部長也可以一起。"],["主席：麻煩請經濟部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：廖委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：院長午安。我們先討論一下地方比較低政治的話題，平溪的天燈其實不只對新北市，也是臺灣觀光非常重要的一個元素，現在新北市政府擬具了天燈的自治條例，也送到行政院來了，行政院其實是分到經濟部，可能太細的事情您不一定會知道，目前有在做一些討論啦！","其實自治條例的精神，就是過去天燈會產生一些問題，包括環保的問題是許多人詬病的，或者是有時候會產生火災，甚至燒到民房的一些賠償問題。所以這個文化或者是觀光的體驗，也必須要隨著時代與時俱進，達到共贏的一個目標，所以他們提出了自治條例，未來包括標章的制度會有收費；也包括未來的支出，在環境永續以及民眾賠償的部分，在這個自治條例裡面大概多有著墨。現在送到行政院，院長對於這樣子朝著永續、與時俱進的自治條例，您的態度是不是原則上支持？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，自治條例的內容我沒有看到，但是平溪的天燈，我個人過去也曾經去過，我覺得那是非常有特色的，當然我們要兼顧到安全、環保，以及當地居民接受度的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：是，就是要改善這些東西。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個如果有妥善的規劃，跟很合理的溝通，大家能夠達成一致，我看自治條例的內容是如何，然後我們會採取正面的方式。"],["廖委員先翔：我跟部長報告，因為原則上送到經濟部了，也很感謝經濟部同仁，目前跨部會都在協調當中，原則上，大家對於條文的內容都是支持這樣子的方向，我們不討論太細，但方向是對的，沒有錯。但是其實內政部現在有一個問題，他認為這個自治條例所收到的錢叫做特別公課，不屬於規費，所以在特別公課上面有一些法律的要求，必須要有法源，地方政府才能夠來實施這個自治條例，現在卡在這個問題。這個可能是跨部會的問題，是不是能夠請院長再做協調？如果你認同這個方向，我不是說你今天要跟我承諾，就是要核定，但是目前卡在這個特別公課的議題上面，導致內政部目前沒有辦法放行，它是有一些疑義的，是不是請我們院長後續再跨部會做一些協調，讓天燈的自治條例儘快的通過？"],["卓院長榮泰：規費費用收入必須要依法，所以在法源允許的情況底下，能夠……"],["廖委員先翔：對，這不是規費啦，這是特別公課！"],["卓院長榮泰：特別公課？"],["廖委員先翔：對，專有名詞。"],["卓院長榮泰：一樣，如果它必須要有一個合法的法源，無論是內政相關或是財政相關，我必須要跟他們多多溝通，但是我認為能夠協助地方發展特色，這個前提如果擺上去的話，我們可以做其他的修正。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝院長，再麻煩院長責成我們所有的單位一起來努力。","接下來下一個議題，這幾年其實臺灣許多買車的民眾都在討論一個議題啦，他們認為為什麼大陸的車輛沒有辦法進來，因為可能一樣的車子，大陸製的車子比如特斯拉好了，我們不要講大陸的品牌，就講特斯拉，它在大陸的售價大概就是臺灣的一半左右而已啦！許多的民眾都有疑問，為什麼不讓它進來臺灣銷售？當然，我知道我們政府一定有一些相關的規範，我也沒有想要趁這一次的質詢就要改變政策方向，或是讓院長承諾什麼東西，但是我認為我們的行政院應該要有政策的說明，因為很多民眾都不知道為什麼大陸車不能進來。不能進來，我相信一定是於法有據，這個於法有據背後的精神是什麼？可不可以請行政院對我們許多要購車的民眾來說明一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們也會負責說明，當然，我們對於一些產品的進口不能違反到國家的安全，這是最基本的。另外還有……"],["廖委員先翔：油車會影響到國家安全嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：這不一定，我是說其中一個方向。另外一個是對等談判的問題，他對我們有開放，我們也會對他有開放……"],["廖委員先翔：臺灣的車可以賣到大陸啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：不行。"],["廖委員先翔：裕隆不是過去？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，它是在那邊……"],["廖委員先翔：它是在本地生產？"],["龔部長明鑫：在那邊落地，然後跟他們合資……"],["廖委員先翔：所以對等的部分要開放？"],["龔部長明鑫：而且在那邊也不能獨資。"],["廖委員先翔：是，所以目前最大……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以還是要透過一些彼此雙方的談判才有辦法去解決問題。"],["廖委員先翔：面對廣大購車民眾的訴求，未來行政院會不會去做一些討論？比如你說的對等談判，會去談嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，電動車的部分，我們當然要特別高的安全注意，因為涉及到很多資安的問題，如果是電池或是整個車的底盤，這個我們有明文規定是不准進來的，如果要來這裡設廠，它必須完完全全符合我們的自製率。再來，如果整車進來，非電動車整車要進來，又採取低價競銷的方式，難道委員不覺得對國內的產業會造成重大衝擊嗎？"],["廖委員先翔：一部分你們的說法是重大衝擊，購車民眾的看法是充分競爭，沒關係，這個部分我不多談，就是我們對於大陸製的車輛，我不是講品牌喔！是大陸製的車輛，所以我才拿特斯拉來做一個比喻，就是外國的品牌、歐美的品牌在大陸生產、製造的也沒有辦法進來，我們對大陸是特別的規定，比如你剛剛講安全的規定、資安的規定，這應該是所有一視同仁都應該要有的規範，但是我們就直接明定大陸製的汽車不能夠進口到臺灣來賣，這件事情是一個獨立的規定，我們的法源依據跟精神到底是怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：就國安的標準來看，我們對資安是高度重視。"],["廖委員先翔：對，那電動的不要。"],["卓院長榮泰：關於這一點，我也要請委員能夠重視。"],["廖委員先翔：對，電車不要，沒關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：中國製的電動車輛跟其他國家是不一樣的安全。"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，你說資安，我就順著你的話講，電車不要，那油車呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：油車剛剛說要互惠對等。"],["廖委員先翔：所以現在行政院，我不確定是不是行政院？至少經濟部長講油車的部分，對等是不是我們最重要的問題所在？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為……"],["廖委員先翔：所以只要願意雙方互相開放，沒有牽扯到資訊安全、國家安全，應該就是要開放。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所有的汽車都是最敏感的，因為汽車還牽涉到可能有限量的問題，還有關稅有多高的問題、怎麼開放的問題，是比較複雜的。"],["廖委員先翔：每個國家都有這個問題，我們針對大陸就有特殊的規定嘛！這個規定的來由是什麼嘛？"],["龔部長明鑫：中國沒有跟我們談這項啊！"],["廖委員先翔：所以我們也沒有意願去談嘛，對不對？如果他們來主動跟我們談，或者是我們的民眾希望經濟部去談，你們會排斥嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：如果要談，可以談啊！"],["廖委員先翔：可以談嘛？"],["龔部長明鑫：對啊！是不違反國家安全、產業利益下……"],["廖委員先翔：對，不違反國家安全的情況下、貿易對等的情況下，院長跟部長認為這是可以談的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，但是談的條件要符合我們對國內市場的管理，包括法規，如果在這裡要落地設廠……"],["廖委員先翔：這是所有的車輛進來都要遵守安全的法規嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["廖委員先翔：這一定要遵守的啊！這本來就是汽車進口都要經過安全檢驗測試，每個人都要有嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["廖委員先翔：共同的標準都一致，現在大陸的問題是對等互惠、國安跟資通訊安全的問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為所有的進口車進來也都要經過我們的檢驗。"],["廖委員先翔：都要嘛，這些一定都要啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：全世界對於現在這種低價傾銷也都有相當防制的作為。"],["廖委員先翔：有些國家是用提高關稅來當作傾銷的一個策略，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：但是報告委員……"],["廖委員先翔：但不是完全禁止。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，現在只要是通訊設備的部分，我們是不允許中國進來，所以即便它是整車，也要把通訊設備換掉。"],["廖委員先翔：它就是油車嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：也有。"],["龔部長明鑫：油車也有通訊設備啊！"],["廖委員先翔：好，沒關係，但至少我們要有一套標準出來，才能去討論，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，會、會。"],["廖委員先翔：我們要知道我們的標準，或者讓民眾理解行政院的政策，他也才不會誤解行政院，或者是兩岸未來在談判的時候，也有一個標準，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們會說明清楚。"],["廖委員先翔：好，謝謝，汽車油汽車進口的部分就到這邊。","另外一個，今天事主沒來，就是剛剛王鴻薇委員也有問到的，有關衛福部補充保費的問題，當然有掀起很大的一個波瀾，剛剛的答詢部分，院長是說要提高保費的方向，就是要增加財源這個方向，您大概是知道的，但是比較細的部分，您可能是看新聞報導才知道的，是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：看新聞報告是知道有一個預告，我們當然會從內部拿到一些訊息來看。"],["廖委員先翔：所以在石部長宣布之前，他有給您看過比較細的方案嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不知道的事情是，什麼時間要提出預告，這個時間點不知道，內容……"],["廖委員先翔：只知道方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：內容，因為我們還沒有討論到完全的定案，只是有幾項原則……"],["廖委員先翔：你是方案不知道，還是時間不知道？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不知道發出預告的時間，內容我們還沒有到完全確定的時候，因為我只知道幾個大原則，比如我剛剛說過我們希望……"],["廖委員先翔：所以我才問你，你知道大原則嘛，但是細項他有先跟你講嗎？還是直接宣布？"],["卓院長榮泰：補充保費第一大原則是要讓收入高一點的國人多負擔一點。"],["廖委員先翔：對，我們認同，這個方向認同。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["廖委員先翔：所以院長，從我們剛剛的對談當中，應該是您知道一個大方向，但是他宣布的細項並沒有提前跟您告知，是這樣子嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有討論到一個定案的問題。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有討論到細項，好，我認為這個方向也是正確的啦！但是只不要讓它變成一個……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我有一句話，30年來國人都受健保的保障。"],["廖委員先翔：不要變成一個地圖炮的概念啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：現在是國人反過頭來要保障健保的時代，大家應該有這樣的體認……"],["廖委員先翔：其實大家的意思就這樣而已，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝廖先翔委員質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。","接下來登記第15位林岱樺委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員林岱樺書面質詢：","行政院於114年3月核定「公務車電動化推動計畫」，規劃至119年完成正、副首長專用車汰換，並於124年全面達成公務小客車電動化。惟各部會採購電動車後，預算支出普遍較以往增加逾兩倍，總經費高達76億元，顯示公部門優先將資源集中於高階公務車汰換。","交通部負責行政單位用車電動化作業，優先汰換正副首長座車，多為百萬元以上電動車型。相對之下，民眾每日接觸的垃圾清運車輛仍以柴油為主力，廢氣排放與噪音污染長期未改善，形成「官員開電動車、民眾吸廢氣」的強烈對比。","環境部作為空氣污染防制主責機關，理應在民眾生活最有感的層面優先推動電動化，但目前電動垃圾車國產化推動進展有限。地方政府反映，電動垃圾車車價高昂、維修體系不足、補助誘因不足，導致採購意願低落。","政府長期隨油附徵空氣污染防制費與廢棄物管理費，原為「專款專用」以改善環境污染，惟迄今未見具體成效。若能運用此兩項費用收入作為「國產化壓縮垃圾車公建計畫」財源，不僅能改善基層廢氣污染，更可促進國產電動車、電池、金屬加工與機電產業鏈升級，實現環保與產業雙贏。","一、行政院推動「公務車電動化」計畫經費龐大，是否曾檢討政策優先順序與經費公平性，以避免形成「上層電動化、基層吸廢氣」的負面觀感？","二、交通部作為公務載具電動化主管機關，是否已納入地方政府垃圾車汰換之整合規劃？若無，何時研議？","三、環境部身為空污防制主責機關，對於民眾最有感的垃圾車柴油廢氣問題，有何具體改善措施與時程？","四、行政院是否可運用空污費及廢管費收入，籌組「國產化壓縮垃圾車公建計畫」，以補助地方採購國產電動垃圾車並建立維修體系，落實環保政策？","建請行政院評估，是否可於當前國際經貿條件衝擊產業之情勢下，運用前述兩項費用（空污費及廢管費）收入，提出「國產化壓縮垃圾車公建計畫」，以加速各地方垃圾車輛電動化，並同步帶動國產汽車、電池、金工及相關產業鏈升級，提升整體產業競爭力。","以上，請行政院於一個月內以書面回覆本辦。"],["主席：再接下來，我們請黃建賓委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}},{"id":"165189","url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165189","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7b2debd084f055f00af500eef7eaf514da8d1794993bca4437c4dc073b7ad873849987ba386f8b6b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"15:43:28 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經濟部長備詢感謝老委員 貴委員謝委員好"},{"start":36.512,"end":62.606,"text":"館長 辛苦了你從2005年恢復人的家鄉整棟已經達標了 跟你恭喜但我常常在說 羅總統應該開一個新局 心事度勢全世界坦白說 真要競爭這個競爭包括大塑骨 包括AI 坦白說"},{"start":63.683,"end":89.656,"text":"沒有電就沒有競爭力了尤其這個電的部分過去因為為了要達到離空離歐年的恢復能力加強所以很匆忙的中間來推動這個力量他們說問題是很多但是這第一我是很清楚的概念這跟熱情的倒影台的體制是沒有關係的但是"},{"start":91.564,"end":103.509,"text":"那是有更加高級不凡的議員、分析人員要強烈對折那麼在這個中台的政策,因為如果沒有做一個調整對於我國的競爭力是非常嚴重的挑戰我要請問保長,因為這是你的任務你知不知道全世界太陽能"},{"start":117.942,"end":141.402,"text":"發展的成本 一個空隙大概如何?我們說價錢就好價錢是越來越多啦越來越多啦因為他的成本是逐年在下降台灣沒剩啦 想蓋整個做一個國家你知不知道?做太陽能的部份?我不知道來 我要請教你 你知不知道日本的太陽能能發展多久?對 它比較貴啦"},{"start":144.91,"end":161.638,"text":"對啦 日本是最貴的嘛全世界 除了台灣以外是最貴的一坨貴的你知不知道新台幣2.7元每個人美國的太陽能一坨新台幣1.8元每個人Australia太陽能新台幣一坨1.4元"},{"start":175.182,"end":196.23,"text":"白色太陽營一座一戶至一戶半帝國恢恢靈的家鄉太陽營一座一戶百中東中東日頭較嚴太陽營發展的成本一座四甲半至九甲也是我們的競爭對手印度"},{"start":204.54,"end":226.613,"text":"太陽能喔 一套高格新代表因為我不知道怎麼說 就是說當機是要去推動太陽能這一兩條的三頁不可能不變故 世界的行政嘛後來 我剛才已經有跟你講過過去的發展 因為我們蓋 我很高興聽到福利福生這兩項"},{"start":235.246,"end":252.866,"text":"有機會重啓這就讓我們有兩個負能電廠的時候我們就可以慢慢、好好、更強勇來擴大太陽能的發電跟熱能的發電所以變成老總統跟党議長就變成有這個機會創造歷史的關頭"},{"start":257.822,"end":285.542,"text":"過去 我們對今天 設作一個分析而已過去的太陽能是受到創造政府所推動的一坨五坨 五坨全世界所有的太陽能平均一坨新台幣的一坨半我們五坨 過去啊但是過去那些高雄高鐵 還有碧端 火航的郵輪要查啦"},{"start":287.264,"end":296.47,"text":"我現在是這樣 我經過我跟台電所談過 跟統計所有國營事業所來討論可是 沒錯 如果可以在你的臨來推動台灣歷齡的專行你跟老總統可以推動這個專行重新開啟一片歷齡 太陽齡的新疆那麼讓他們做記載"},{"start":316.929,"end":334.482,"text":"逆應 交給台電 跟相關的公營事業出來的土地 我給你算過了這幾萬公頃裡面 若是交給台電去運作包括兩條高速公路 跟東西方的快速道路啦這所有的 若能好好使用不用跟水庫 水庫面積不大啦 發了不少電啦"},{"start":345.407,"end":368.638,"text":"要出一個替代方案是很簡單的你不要大家對著台南人對著這個五三頭飲水我們的陰泳水灌溉泳水大家貼心吊膽實在是沒必要 柏中你覺得怎麼樣這個您剛才提到高速公路這個部分我們都有跟相關公路有沒關係我不是在跟你說這個嘛我現在在說這飲水大...來來來 我請問議長議長我們今天談到大風洋"},{"start":374.1,"end":386.523,"text":"如果可以在這裡做一個重新開始 我在這裡回頭看保證啦你跟老總統 跟金伯中 你如果願意這樣輸給我我給你保證台灣的太陽能 一度可以在3個月以後 我不要跟你說2個月以後你講是2個月以後啦 好 我跟你講3個月以後 全世界會想整個喔"},{"start":400.658,"end":421.243,"text":"我們從3個來進步到2個半 你覺得你如果這樣做我們所有的競爭力可以提升 北省省外同輩碰撞的壓力就可以降低了 議長你如何看待好 報告委員政府是嚴肅的 不然我就分割過去剉政府的政策 現在我們也在做不不不 我跟你說的 我的意思嘛"},{"start":422.506,"end":437.17,"text":"我告訴你過去的經濟存在這些東西潛入20年不可能廢掉嘛我第二要說的就是說太陽林 台灣因為土地管理 土地困難再來我們初期發開發的成本當然更高你看世界各國初期到現在絕對不一樣第三 我告訴你"},{"start":441.431,"end":449.934,"text":"現在我已經決定 檢討這些正義帝國 民間帝國沒有啦 要說正義嘛 我們現在要講解身份 看這正義是多少嘛就檢討 檢討這些正義帝國 民間帝國我剛才在跟你說 交給專業的 來電的去經營 大規模 去經 我跟你說啦可以講到三個月以後啦"},{"start":465.285,"end":471.387,"text":"你說過去打開市價比我講全世界我所知道的國家打開市價也沒有一度超過兩塊八的啊這開發的 你寒了再進行 你說他想過兩塊八還要這樣兩塊開市呢他早開發才成分比較多啊我們不是要陪你消遣這些嘛"},{"start":484.79,"end":510.424,"text":"所以我贊成委員的說法啦 讓專業去處理包括給人家燃燒 有沒有要重新啓用 給專業來評斷所以我的意思是說 針對太陽燈要有一個新的時刻就是說我們所有 坦白說 以前你金嘛金要促成 所以單價提高工收費 我就說那已經過去了但是那你不可能把它廢除 那有合約的嘛"},{"start":511.54,"end":537.151,"text":"未來可以重新 你就是說用一個現在太陽燈一切身份都講解了連老九五台電的專機去處理太陽燈的發電我只能夠三年跟你保證台灣的太陽燈發電可以降到來三個月全世界現在平均是一顆四個月所以我不知道你會不會對這個政策"},{"start":539.076,"end":562.966,"text":"共同大力來推動這對你們還是一個好的歷史可以留名對台灣的競爭力是可以極度提升的呢可以要求台電降低它所有發電的成本不管是天天天天氣的 煤的 火的都可以降低它的成本 當然是好的事情你把台銅台鹽的土地交給台電去開困本身給你保證兩塊半以下"},{"start":570.694,"end":580.185,"text":"我幫你補正 你可以請補正這剛好全部都是在你的任務過程裡面你研議一下 這樣啦 給你一個月時間研議後分析一個粗暴的答案 這樣可以嗎 有辦法嗎研究多一個重點 你說土地喔"},{"start":592.062,"end":614.689,"text":"研究太陽林講到的三項議案就是有專精的單位不要再給民間大家什麼栗油油 菜油油 什麼油油沒意義啦就對沒油油 沒什麼油油我可以在經濟部台前一句話裡面像綠營 尤其是太陽林未來成本的分析如果像台灣新的太陽林"},{"start":615.809,"end":616.029,"text":"好 沒問題"},{"start":637.304,"end":646.722,"text":"谢谢谢龙介委员质询谢谢卓院长经济部长备询谢委员所取的资料麻烦送到谢委员办公室谢谢谢谢谢龙介委员谢谢"}]},"gazette":{"lineno":369,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（15時43分）主席，我請卓院長跟龔部長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長、經濟部長備詢。"],["謝委員龍介：感謝賴委員跟郭委員。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝委員好。"],["謝委員龍介：院長辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會！"],["謝委員龍介：2025年非核家園貴黨已經達標了，恭喜你！我常常在說賴總統應該可以開一個新局、審時度勢，坦白說，全世界很競爭，這個競爭包括大數據、包括AI，因此沒有電就沒有競爭力。尤其電的部分，過去為了達到2025年非核家園，所以這中間很匆忙的推動綠能，坦白說問題實在很多，但是第一，我是很清楚界定，這跟賴清德、卓榮泰的體制是沒關係，但是如果有官商勾結不法的，本席仍然認為要強力追查。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["謝委員龍介：在這個重大的政策，如果沒有做一個調整，對我國的競爭力是非常嚴重的挑戰，我要請問部長，因為這是你的業務，你知道全世界太陽能發電的成本趨勢大概是如何？我們說價錢就好。"],["龔部長明鑫：價錢是愈來愈低。"],["謝委員龍介：愈來愈低。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為它的成本是逐年在下降。"],["謝委員龍介：若臺灣不算，最貴的是哪一個國家你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：你說太陽能的部分？"],["謝委員龍介：是。"],["龔部長明鑫：我不知道。"],["謝委員龍介：我請教你，你知道日本的太陽能發電一度是多少錢嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：是比較貴，它比較貴。"],["謝委員龍介：對啦！日本是最貴的，全世界除了臺灣以外，它是最貴的，一度多少錢你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我可能要查一下。"],["謝委員龍介：新臺幣2.7元，美國的太陽能一度新臺幣1.8元，澳洲的太陽能一度新臺幣1元至1.5元，巴西的太陽能一度1元至1.5元，德國是非核家園，太陽能一度1.8元，中東的太陽比較強烈，太陽能發電的成本一度0.45元至0.9元，也是我們的競爭對手印度，太陽能一度新臺幣0.9元。院長，我不知道這些數據……當時要去推動太陽能這二、三兆的產業，不可能沒評估世界的行情嘛！我剛才已經有跟你說過，過去的發電，因為我們急，我很高興聽到核二、核三這兩廠有機會重啟，這就恢復到我們有兩個核電廠的時候，我們就可以慢慢地、好好地，也比較從容地來看待太陽能發展跟綠能發展，所以變成賴總統跟卓院長你們就有這個機會去創造歷史的高度。","我們從今天把它切為一個分水嶺，過去的太陽能是屬於蔡政府所推動的，一度5元，全世界所有的太陽能平均一度新臺幣1.5元，我們是5元，但是過去的那些官商勾結、搞弊端、護航的仍然要查。我現在是這樣，經過我跟台電所談過的，以及統計所有國營事業手裡的這些土地，假如院長可以在你的任內推動臺灣綠能的轉型，你跟賴總統可以來推動這個轉型，重新開啟一片綠能、太陽能的新章，然後以核能做基礎，綠能交給台電跟相關國營事業手裡的土地，我幫你算過了，十幾萬公頃土地如果交給台電去運作，包括兩條高速公路跟東西向快速道路，這些所有的如果可以好好善用，也不用用到水庫，說實在的，水庫面積沒有很大，發不了多少電，要出一個替代方案是很簡單，你搞到臺南人對著烏山頭的飲用水、灌溉用水，大家都提心吊膽，實在是沒必要。部長，你覺得怎麼樣？"],["龔部長明鑫：您剛才提到高速公路，這個部分我們都有跟相關部會談過……"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係，我不是在跟你說這個，我現在是在說用水……"],["龔部長明鑫：你剛才說好像替代很……"],["謝委員龍介：我請問院長，我們今天探討大方向，如果可以在這裡做一個重新開始，我在這裡跟你拍胸脯保證，你跟賴總統與龔部長如果願意這樣來思考，我跟你保證臺灣的太陽能1度可以在3塊以下，我不跟你說2.5塊，合理是2.5塊以下，跟你說是3塊，而且還是全世界最貴的，我們從3塊進步到2.5塊。你知不知道你如果這樣做，我們所有的競爭力可以提升，百姓的生活、通貨膨脹的壓力就可以降低？院長，你如何看待？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，政府是延續的，沒辦法分割，過去蔡政府的政策現在我們也在做。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有、沒有，你誤會我的意思，我跟你說，過去的政策是存在的，這些東西簽約20年不可能廢掉。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我第二個要說的是，太陽能因為臺灣土地取得困難的關係，還有我們初期開發的成本當然會比較高，你看世界各國，初期跟現在絕對不一樣。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有、沒有，我跟你說……"],["卓院長榮泰：第三，現在我已經決定減少這些爭議地區、敏感地區、水庫……"],["謝委員龍介：沒有啦！不用說爭議的部分，我們現在要降低成本，有爭議的是少數嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，就減少啊，減少這些爭議地區、敏感地區。"],["謝委員龍介：我剛才跟你說就是交給專業的、台電去大規模經營，我跟你說，可以降到3塊以下，你說過去是因為剛開始比較貴，我跟你說，全世界我剛剛唸的這些國家，剛開始也沒有1度超過2.8塊的。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果開發的時間比較早，那個時候跟現在的成本不能相比啊！"],["謝委員龍介：它最貴是2.8塊，我們是從5塊開始耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：早開發的成本比較低。"],["謝委員龍介：我們不是要跟你爭執這個嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啦、對啦！我贊成委員的說法，我們就讓專業去處理，包括核能電廠有沒有要重新啟用，讓專業來評斷。"],["謝委員龍介：OK，所以我的意思是，針對太陽能要有一個新的視角，坦白說，過去因為你們急著要促成，所以提高單價跟人家收買，我說了那已經都過去了，但是你也不可能把它廢除，那是有合約的。但未來可以重新，你現在就是用太陽能，所有的成本都降低了，然後交給台電專責去處理太陽能發電，我謝龍介三個字跟你保證，臺灣的太陽能發電可以降到3塊以下，全世界現在平均是一點四多塊。你可以對這個政策共同來推動，這對你們也是好的，歷史可以留名，對臺灣的競爭力是可以極度提升的。"],["卓院長榮泰：可以要求台電降低所有發電的成本，不管是天然氣、煤、核能都可以降低它的成本，當然是好的事情。"],["謝委員龍介：你有要替它解套啦！院長，你把台糖、台鹽的土地交給台電去開墾，本席跟你保證，2.5塊以下，我跟你保證。你可以請部長協助，這剛好全部都是在你的業管範圍內。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個想法，土地……"],["龔部長明鑫：價格……"],["謝委員龍介：你去研議一下，院長，給你一個月的時間，研議完給本席一個初步的答案，這樣可以嗎？有辦法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：研究哪一個重點？你是說土地嗎？"],["謝委員龍介：研究太陽能降到3塊以下，就是由專責的單位負責，不要再給民間，什麼綠友友、蔡友友、什麼友友，沒意義啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不會是友友，沒有什麼友友。"],["謝委員龍介：所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：我可以請經濟部、台電一個月內將綠能，尤其是太陽能未來的成本分析跟委員報告。"],["謝委員龍介：如何將臺灣新的太陽能發電降到3塊以下？如果能做到這樣，到時候本席可以給賴總統跟卓院長一個大大的肯定，做得到，不是做不到，我跟你保證做得到，如果做不到，你來問我，我會跟你說怎麼做，你看怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：我先來問你再做。"],["謝委員龍介：好，沒問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝龍介委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、經濟部長備詢。謝委員所索取的資料麻煩送到謝委員辦公室，謝謝謝龍介委員。","接下來請廖先翔委員質詢，黃建賓委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-8","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳超明","郭昱晴","邱志偉","謝龍介","廖先翔","林岱樺","黃建賓","高金素梅","賴惠員"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2025-11-07"],"gazette_id":"1149101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第8次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1149101_00004"}}}],"supported_filter_fields":["term","sessionPeriod","meet_id","legislator","committee_id","date"]}